Get Schooled

By Tina Teach

April 10, 2006 11:31 AM | Link to this

I personally don’t really have a problem with them missing one day. However the teacher next door to me has three students that left the Wednesday before spring break and won’t be back until the Wednesday following the break. That I have a problem with!
One day is fine, I understand that families try to be flexible around school and that it doesn’t always work, but to miss six extra day because of spring break plans is unacceptable.

By T. DANIEL

April 10, 2006 11:39 AM | Link to this

Extend spring break. Give me a break! The kids get a week off already. How much more time do the school kids need to “refresh”? Keep your kids in school until the end of the day on Friday and bring them back on time Monday, like all the other good parents do.

By MMM

April 10, 2006 11:43 AM | Link to this

Playing hooky has a history going back at least as far as Tom Sawyer. The difference is that back then Tom had to sneak away because he knew he would get beaten if he was caught. He was from a family that cared about being respectable.

Huckleberry Finn was from trash. The fact that he skipped whenever he pleased with no one to whip him for it was the present day reward for having no future.

What does it say when people that are responsible for a child’s future encourage the skipping?

By Fed Up

April 10, 2006 11:45 AM | Link to this

To me, it depends on how your kids are doing in school. If they are making straight A’s, scoring high on the massive amount of standardized tests that they are subjected to, and spending way too much time working for free tutoring other kids because they finish their work early….. let them have a day or so off from their perpetual boredom.

I figure if they are doing fine in school, they can have a day or so off to do something that is actually stimulating (i.e. other than watching TV and playing video games). This is particularly the case since most public schools are not willing to do anything meaningful to challenge gifted and high achieving kids. Excellence no longer matters thanks to NCLB.

I plan to pull mine in May (after the precious CRCT) to go to the Aquarium. If the administration doesn’t like it they can kiss my backside!

By Jeff

April 10, 2006 11:46 AM | Link to this

I give a test the day before the break and a quiz the day they return. Miss either one, too bad. (I have a STRICT no late test/quiz policy, but the midterm/ final has the power to replace lower test scores, so I’ve got my tail covered nicely!)

By Yawn

April 10, 2006 11:55 AM | Link to this

Who cares? Keep them out as long as possible…with all the b.s. testing and lack of physical activities in the schools, it’s nice that a parent will actually take a kid and expose him or her to a new environment. Traveling is truly learning, repetition of worksheets can wait…and by the way, I am a teacher!

By Yawn

April 10, 2006 12:01 PM | Link to this

wow, Jeff….tail covered nicely? What a wimp! Do you enjoy working in fear? Wondering if a bored parent may just be the end of your teaching career? Teachers have been reduced to such cowards….the shame!

By BlindHomer

April 10, 2006 12:10 PM | Link to this

I wouldn’t think ‘stayed an extra day at DisneyWorld’ would constitute an excused absence. No makeups for work missed due to unexcused absence sounds fair to me. Try coming back two days late from a scheduled vacation and see what happens at work.

By meme

April 10, 2006 12:11 PM | Link to this

Missing one day on either end of the break shouldn’t be a problem.

By Amazed (Independent Woman)

April 10, 2006 12:13 PM | Link to this

I felt bad when I saw my daughters unexcused absentee on her report card last month. She went to a conference in Orlando with me, back in January. It was at a Disney Resort.

I’m a parent who believes that you must be sick, in order to miss one day of school. I let my boss talk me into bringing my daughter (after offering to pay, I couldn’t say NO).

She was allowed to take test early and make up work, so I guess it was worth it.

By Jeff

April 10, 2006 12:13 PM | Link to this

I abhor politics, but its an unfortunate reality that it is a big part of keeping your job as a teacher. Vast majority of the time parents will go straight to administration based on what their kid told then happened in class without ever asking the teacher what was ACTUALLY going on…

BTW: I know I’m not coming back to this school next year, so I’m no longer overly concerned about true backside covering… just need it covered enough so that they dont decide they”re better off with a sub for the next 30 days…

By decatuparent

April 10, 2006 12:18 PM | Link to this

In my Utopian world (not the real world.. I know… but my little fantasy world), I would love to see every kid in the nation take NCLB testing week off…. EVERY kid! Throw this NCLB garbage in the President’s face and see how he likes it. It’s not like the kids would miss any learning during that week. All my kid does that week is fill in bubble and eat peppermint candies!

Think of it… all schools nationwide would fail AYP because no one would show up.. then I guess all schools would eventually lose federal funding and we could finally do away with the U. S. Dept. of Education because there would be no need for it!

John Lennon’s song… Imagine keeps running through my head right now.

Of course, I know… my little dream is not realistic.. but I thought I’d share. Back to the real world!

By hs sped

April 10, 2006 12:19 PM | Link to this

Fed up, You’re right, excellence no longer matters. So why not stay out? I sat in on a meeting the week before last where a student with an IQ of 119 was put into the gifted program. When were the standards for being gifted changed? Has Mensa also lowered its standards? What a joke. By the way Yawn, I cover my butt just like Jeff does. A bored parent (or money hungry parent) could be the end of my career, and also my home. I’m not for sure, but I believe that a precedent was set in our circuit court where a parent was able to sue the teacher, as opposed to suing the school system. Sucks, doesn’t it?

By Jeff

April 10, 2006 12:21 PM | Link to this

As far as where I actualy stand on the whole “a day or two doesn’t matter” issue: I’ve been known to miss family funerals to be at school. I don’t accept excuses other than you were physically unable to be there, and for that there had better be some kind of medical documentation. (preferably from a hospital)

By Leia

April 10, 2006 12:24 PM | Link to this

It’s not about being sympathetic. I have to cover certain material, and if the students aren’t here to get the instruction, they’ll have to figure out a way! And I will not teach it to them after school. They have to come to me with questions about the notes they’ve gotten from other students.

It’s the parents’ decision to pull the kids out of school for an extended vacation. Those days don’t count as excused absences, so we don’t have to even allow make-up work!

By Yawn

April 10, 2006 12:24 PM | Link to this

I got ya Jeff…but what i was trying to evoke is a generalization that teachers live, er, I mean work in fear. All of us! Will we be fired because Johnny’s Mom is hitting menopause? Will we be fired because our inept administrator didn’t like what we were wearing today? Will we be fired for mentioning a topic in our class that is not part of the curriculum that our district sees fit? Will we get assaulted by a student? WHY SHOULD WE HAVE TO WORRY? …we need to take out profession back into our own hands!

By Well

April 10, 2006 12:27 PM | Link to this

Jeff, are you a first year teacher? If so, I can sympathize.

By Jeff

April 10, 2006 12:33 PM | Link to this

Well,

Tomorrow is my 3month anniversary of the first day I had a classroom..

By another teacher

April 10, 2006 12:36 PM | Link to this

Here’s what happens: absenteeism is so high those days that many teachers don’t teach. So, other students stay home thinking, “we don’t do any work that day anyway.”

Personally, I treat that day as my contract says it is: a school day. Usually, I try to end a unit right before the break so the students test that day. (those w/excused absences can make it up)

By Yawn

April 10, 2006 12:40 PM | Link to this

awwww, Jeffffffffff……dude…..do your job for you and your students…help them, try to give them what they need, not what they want…are you staying with teaching for next year? If so, I suggest moving to a country that respects teachers, possibly Japan…

By Amazed (Independent Woman)

April 10, 2006 12:45 PM | Link to this

Working in Fear? Teachers have the most secure jobs in the world.

If you want fear, I can give you a parents fear: (1.) A teacher decides to date my 13 – 15 year old son/daughter – then marries him/her or conceives a child. (2.) A child molester, without prior convictions becomes a schoolteacher. (3.) The teacher’s spouse decides to take revenge on his/her spouse at school. (4.) A teacher uses his/her political or worldview, to influence my child. Outside of the education curriculum. (5.) My child sees his/her teacher arrested for drug possession on television. (6.) Etc.

Yes, teachers are people too. However, parents have worries, when it comes to who is teaching our children.

If you are doing the right things, you have nothing to FEAR.

By meme

April 10, 2006 12:53 PM | Link to this

I try really hard not to get bent out of shape over the students missing a day or two. If they are not sick, it is there fault of the parents and I can’t blame the students for the actions of their parents. I teach on the days before and the days after breaks and the students that miss the work are required to make it up. I’m sorry, Jeff, if my opinion doesn’t agree with yours, but it is my opinion. Are you planning to continue your career in teaching?

By meme

April 10, 2006 12:55 PM | Link to this

Amen, Amazed. If we are doing things right, we have nothing to fear.

By Well

April 10, 2006 01:04 PM | Link to this

Jeff, no need casting your pearls before swine. One year did it for me. I would’ve quit sooner but I didn’t want to break my contract.

Folks tell me another school would be better. I didn’t want to find out.

I remember not being able to fail the kids because there was a quota for F’s.

Being cursed and having things thrown wasn’t fun either.

I just didn’t have a heart for it I guess. The business world suits me much better.

By Jeff

April 10, 2006 01:12 PM | Link to this

meme,

I am unconventional, sometiems controversial, but I GUARANTEE you, if an administrator shields me so that I can do things my way, I get results. As is right now, admins usually tie both hands and one leg behind my back.

By Yawn

April 10, 2006 01:17 PM | Link to this

Ok amazed, here I go….1) Your’re 13-15 yr old should be old enough AND taught about the birds and bees to understand the significance of sexual relations especially with an adult. 2)A “What if” situation that can happen even in the home ie. babysitters or relatives. 3)What the hell is #3? Are you trying to say that teacher’s spouses are the new generational Mailmen? Marital discord can be found in any profession, or did you forget about President Clinton? 4) Sorry, toots, but everyone has a view, whether you like it or not and for the rest of you child’s life they will be exposed to such views. Now if you’re looking for a strict viewpoint only for your child, then there’s always parochial schools. 5)Are you telling me you’re more worried about your child seeing his or her teacher arrested for drug possesion then your child actually being exposed to drugs in their school? I have seen drug dealing in my school, passed the information on to a pricipal with correct paperwork and still nothing was done.
You were right on one accord, teachers are people, too. Would you stop throwing out your garbage if your garbage man was arrested for drugs? I’m not trying to compare garbage to your child, I understand fully that your childn is and should be the most important thing in your life, but to criminalize every teacher because of a few bad ones that make it to the media is simply preposterous.

By Privateschoolguy

April 10, 2006 01:20 PM | Link to this

Part of what schools teach or instill is that you need to be responsible and show up when you are supposed to. Thus when you finish school and go to work you will have learned that you need to work every workday not just when they feel like it or have something more fun to do. We should abandone either this style of schooling or adhere to the style not wavering inbetween.

By ms b

April 10, 2006 01:26 PM | Link to this

Just before the break, I was teaching sex ed classes to 8th graders (yeah, that’s my job). It’s a week long class with a test at the end….Several young ladies asked me on the first day of class if the would have to take the test since they would be leaving early for spring break. I gave them a handout of notes and laughed to myself…”oh you’ll be tested alright… soon enough dear girl…”

@Jeff… if you need any help/ideas, just holla!

By Susie

April 10, 2006 01:28 PM | Link to this

As long as none of them have a test or anything vitally important that they not miss, I have taken my kids out of school at noon or 1 pm on a Friday if we are traveling.

Anyone who has ever tried to go north on I85 to get out of Atlanta on a Friday after 3 will understand why I have to do that. Last time my ex was taking the kids to NC, I told him and told him he was making a mistake…at 3pm he called me at work and said they were leaving Fayette county…at 5 pm, he called me back and said, “remind me again why you say never to leave on a Friday?” I asked him where they were, he said, “Jimmy Carter Blvd!”

So yes, if I’m forced to leave town on a Friday, I get their assignments from their teachers and I check them out early!!

By jim d

April 10, 2006 01:38 PM | Link to this

Cutting classes, skipping school, not showing up the day after a break or the day before.

Who cares? Surely, not I (or should that be “me”, never did get that one straight—think I skipped that day;-)

I assure you if NCLB was done away with, very few others would care either.

By Laura

April 10, 2006 01:43 PM | Link to this

Any day spent traveling with family is more important than sitting in school.

Luckily my son attends private school and this is the school’s philosophy, too. Last week a girl in his class missed two days to go to DC to have lunch with George Bush. (Her mom is friends with him.) She came back bearing gifts for all the kids in the class and she told them about her visit at the White House.

By luvs2teach

April 10, 2006 01:46 PM | Link to this

The fact this topic even exists points to why blaming only the teachers and holding only the teachers accountable for the success or failure of a school to make AYP is ineffective at best.

By Amazed (Independent Woman)

April 10, 2006 01:48 PM | Link to this

YAWN - every example I gave was in the news last year. I don’t criminalize teachers, I just pointed out that Parents have worries about teachers as well.

Also, children should not be approached at all by adults and if the child has a crush on an adult, the adult should act as an audlt should - when approached by a child. No excuses!!!!!!

I plan to write my congress person about a law to give Teachers, additional prison time for having inappropriate relationships with students. Reason: you have more access to children and this is becoming a big problem in society. I can keep my child away from babysitters, the trashmen, my neighbors and my minister - but I can’t keep my child out of school.

In addition, I know that all professions have problems with employees - which is why I made the statement that teachers are people too.

As far as the teacher with drugs, it’s not the access I have concerns with at this time - it’s the example the adult/teacher is showing to his/her students. My daughter is fully aware about drugs and what/how to stay away from them. My example was about the picture it paints about teachers, when a teacher is shown on television being arrested for drug possession.

An talk about grouping people into one category, that’s like the Pot calling the Kettle Black. I see what you guys write about parents and students on this blog.

By meme

April 10, 2006 01:51 PM | Link to this

Laura, I think you are on the right track. There are many things that kids cannot learn in school. I personally think homeschooling is wonderful. I am trying to convince my niece (who is a certified teacher) to homeschool her two children.

Jeff, good luck. I’m afraid that you might not find many administrators with the backbone to back you up.

By John

April 10, 2006 01:59 PM | Link to this

I teach your children every day. They’re mostly spoiled brats and drive me to smoke pot every night.

Take ‘em out of school whenever you want.

I’ve given up.

And, I’ve been teaching for 20 years.

By Jeff

April 10, 2006 02:01 PM | Link to this

Amazed:

I smoke and drink, and my students know it. (They asked a direct question, I gave a direct answer.) Am I setting a bad example for the kids? Not at all. I flat out tell them “I’m 23 and its legal. You’re 16 and its not, so it is a completely different issue there.”

By Homeschool Mom

April 10, 2006 02:05 PM | Link to this

I homeschool but usually gave my kids the same spring break as our county…this morning they were begging me to go back to put them back in public school so they would’t have to do work so hard :)

By ms b

April 10, 2006 02:11 PM | Link to this

Given that I teach about sex, you can imagine what sorts of questions I have gotten from the chittlins… i tell them the truth- “It’s none of your business- I am an adult!”
Why is it that there seems to be a whole different set of ethical criteria for teachers? No drinking, smoking, sex, no life… when did I sign up to be a school marm!? I’m in my twenties! Of course, my first year out of college, I did call in sick the day after Xmas break… from Amsterdam!

By Leisure time for Little Johnny

April 10, 2006 02:15 PM | Link to this

My daughter has way too much homework. I remember the days when school was actually FUN. I skipped my share of classes, missed a few homework assignments and am still a success today.

Secondary school takes itself way to serious these days. Let the kids have some fun, not 2-3 hours of homework a night. Another thing, test don’t all have to be given on the same day.

By Mike

April 10, 2006 02:15 PM | Link to this

The current school year calendar configuration tends to be a major inconvenience to families in general. My single-parent employees have a difficult time scheduling around the many off-days scattered with little rhyme or reason throughout the year. We seem to have little problem pulling children out of school for pep-rallies, sporting events, grief counseling and whatever other nonsense issues we can come up with. With so many families scattered about the country now-days, having a child miss a day for an issue that’s important to the family.

And btw - teachers like Jeff who purposefully schedule tests on days before breaks just to try & snag absent kids are just another example of what is wrong w/our educational system. Jeff’s acting more like a traffic cop at a speed-trap instead of focusing on the job he was actually hired to do - which is to impart knowledge to the students he was hired to teach. I see no benefit (other than satisfying Jeff’s ego and need to use a buch of school kids to full-fill his power=trip) to employing such a tactic.

Maybe that’s why his first year doesn’t sound like it’s going very well?

By Amazed (Independent Woman)

April 10, 2006 02:19 PM | Link to this

Jeff - you don’t get arrested for legal drug possession and yes(if you are arrested for drinking and driving) you are setting a bad example. NO - I would not like the town drunk, teaching my child. I don’t care if he is 65 Years and older.

As far as smoking, legal cigarettes, It’s your lungs and yes you are setting a bad example. If you were my childs teacher, I would give you that smokers gum for teacher appreciation.

I don’t care if you drink, I have been known to have a few myself. However, I have yet to drive drunk and I have never used illegal drugs.

Yes, parents should set examples for their kids and so should teachers & administrators.

By lilma

April 10, 2006 02:19 PM | Link to this

What in the hell is all this about? Jeff, sounds like you need to pick another profession. You went college and earned a degree in education for what? So, you could be off a few months a year and get pd.? Sure doesn’t sound like you enjoy educating our children, or like you got any attention from your family when you were a child. You actually sound bitter and lonely. I hope your not teaching and attractive girls or boys for that matter, you may get some ideas! Stop being so damned up-tight about a child missing one day of school. You should be glad my child does not attend one of your grand classes, because your little strict policy on no make-ups would be shoved right up your a*! That oughta losen you up a bit huh?

By Jeff

April 10, 2006 02:21 PM | Link to this

ms b,

AMEN AMEN AMEN AMEN AMEN!!!!!!!!

BTW: If (when?) I leave teaching, I’ll be saying those words a LOT! (I’m currently debating whether or not to become a pastor. This is something I’ve been dealing with (running from?) for just over 8 years, and it resurfaced big time right around the time my teaching career was FINALLY getting started.)

By jim d

April 10, 2006 02:24 PM | Link to this

John,

You ain’t smokin pot on account of mine nor anyone elses. Lets be brutally frank here. You smoke because you want to. If it weren’t blaming the kids, I’m sure you’d find another excuse.

Get help. You’ve got a problem.

By truthfully

April 10, 2006 02:27 PM | Link to this

YAWN- you d to take your profession back into your own hands! YOU”VE GOT THAT RIGHT!

GOTTA LOVE IT.. me-me & Amazed. If you are doing things right, you have nothing to fear.

Jeff- what to say what to say..

By jim d

April 10, 2006 02:28 PM | Link to this

Jeff,

Have you eaten today? checked your sugar?

By Robert

April 10, 2006 02:31 PM | Link to this

Being ranked 49th in the country is the reason students should not skip school for an extended holiday. The longer spring break idea is ridiculous too. Wait til these people get into the real world and have only 2 weeks the entire year to take off (other than holidays of course).

By Jeff

April 10, 2006 02:33 PM | Link to this

Mike,

My test and quiz had two purposes: One: They were needed. Due to the schedule that I’m staring at and the material that I’m trying to join to it, It was either give them the test Friday or have FOUR test review days and a test tomorrow. I chose to go ahead and get it over with. The quiz was necessary to check for a basic understanding of underlying priniciples of what we’re about to cover.

Two: A side effect of schooling in America is that we are supposed to teach those things, such as RESPONSIBILITY, that should be learned at home. The test and quiz were thus lessons in responsibility: When you are supposed to be at work, you need to be at work and working.

By Jeff

April 10, 2006 02:34 PM | Link to this

Jim,

I’m doing great right now. Thanks for asking though.

By truthfully

April 10, 2006 02:36 PM | Link to this

Jeff.. Smokin drinkin Pastor.. thats a WHOLE NEW TOPIC HONEY.. um.. jeff you’ve been on here quite some time today… DID YOU GET THE LESSONS OUT??? GOOD GRIEF.

By Jeff

April 10, 2006 02:37 PM | Link to this

Amazed:

TRUST me, if you ever get hit by a drunk driver, it WON’T be me. I’m crazy, but not THAT crazy. As a matter of fact, my school’s Prom is coming up and I’m strongly considering getting a hotel room in the area, giving my students that are going to the prom my cell #, and telling them “If you’re gonna be stupid enough to drink, at least don’t be a COMPLETE IDIOT and drink and drive. Give me a call and I’ll take you home, no questions asked.”

By jim d

April 10, 2006 02:38 PM | Link to this

The only reason anyone cares if your kids are in school everyday is because when they’re not it flies in the face of the six basic functions of public eduaction, any one of which is enough to curl the hair of most parents.

1) The adjustive or adaptive function. Schools are to establish fixed habits of reaction to authority. This, of course, precludes critical judgment completely. It also pretty much destroys the idea that useful or interesting material should be taught, because you can’t test for reflexive obedience until you know whether you can make kids learn, and do, foolish and boring things.

2) The integrating function. This might well be called “the conformity function,” because its intention is to make children as alike as possible. People who conform are predictable, and this is of great use to those who wish to harness and manipulate a large labor force.

3) The diagnostic and directive function. School is meant to determine each student’s proper social role. This is done by logging evidence mathematically and anecdotally on cumulative records. As in “your permanent record.” Yes, you do have one.

4) The differentiating function. Once their social role has been “diagnosed,” children are to be sorted by role and trained only so far as their destination in the social machine merits - and not one step further. So much for making kids their personal best.

5) The selective function. This refers not to human choice at all but to Darwin’s theory of natural selection as applied to what he called “the favored races.” In short, the idea is to help things along by consciously attempting to improve the breeding stock. Schools are meant to tag the unfit - with poor grades, remedial placement, and other punishments - clearly enough that their peers will accept them as inferior and effectively bar them from the reproductive sweepstakes. That’s what all those little humiliations from first grade onward were intended to do: wash the dirt down the drain.

6) The propaedeutic function. The societal system implied by these rules will require an elite group of caretakers. To that end, a small fraction of the kids will quietly be taught how to manage this continuing project, how to watch over and control a population deliberately dumbed down and declawed in order that government might proceed unchallenged and corporations might never want for obedient labor.

By jim d

April 10, 2006 02:39 PM | Link to this

Jeff, when you started talking about becoming a preacher, I became concerned.

HAGD.

By meme

April 10, 2006 02:40 PM | Link to this

Do you have a problem with doing the right thing?

I made it a point when I first started teaching to not discuss certain things with children. When they start asking questions, I tell them that I do not discuss sex, politics or religion. It helps me stay out of trouble.

By jim d

April 10, 2006 02:44 PM | Link to this

Robert, Gotta disagree. Being ranked 49th isn’t really indicitive of the job you guy’s are doing teaching or that our students are doing learning. It’s merely how they placed on an asinine test. Y’all just keep up the good work.

As for the breaks? Well we could go off on the year round school thing again, but then let’s save that for another blog.

By Mike

April 10, 2006 02:51 PM | Link to this

Jeff - your own words - “Miss either one, too bad.” indicate that you find more glee in trying to trip up one of your students than in trying to make sure they do truly receive the best education possible.

Clearly a sign that you enjoy trying to bully a buch of kids younger than you. Also - definitely not the sentiment of someone who pretends to be considering entering the ministry.

I find it very interesting that somone who appears to be rather irresponsible in their approach to their career would preach that the intent of their little ego trip is to actually teach responsibility.

Jeff, you’re definitely on the right track in considering a new career.

By Amazed (Independent Woman)

April 10, 2006 02:53 PM | Link to this

Jim D,

You have been reincarnated as SET today. Got to Love it! Those are very interesting categories.

Hey Jeff - just don’t pink up your drunk students and take them back to your hotel room. Wink.. Wink… I’m just picking on you - I’m hoping you are truly being a good citizen.

By E. Lewis

April 10, 2006 02:54 PM | Link to this

As a former teacher, yes, it does drive me crazy because of the low priority it puts on school.

It would be one thing if a student missed a day because of a once in a lifetime event. The annual trip to Disney or the Bahamas doesn’t count. Last time I checked those places aren’t going anywhere. Visiting family is important, but unless someone is dying the vacation should fit into the school calendar or be rescheduled.

Telling your children that fun and convenience matter more than getting their education and creating unnecessary work for a teacher who has another 150 students to worry about is disrespectful.

By labmom

April 10, 2006 02:54 PM | Link to this

So, why are we against year round school? It’s okay to pull your kid out for a week long ski trip in Jan. or Feb. You keep your kid out for extra days at spring break because you couldn’t get the airfare you wanted.There will be parents pulling their kids out on Good Friday for “religious reasons” and keeping them out on Mon. after Easter because that was the way it was when the parent was a kid. And they pull their kid out of school for long weekends for going hunting, going to the mountains, a family wedding in Vegas? But they don’t want their kid to miss out on all the fun stuff during summer. Sounds like school is nothing but a baby sitting service for when there is nothing else to do.

By SET

April 10, 2006 02:57 PM | Link to this

I Like It!!!

By Jeff

April 10, 2006 02:59 PM | Link to this

Mike,

I’m interested in holding my students accountable to the choices they make. If you think that’s harsh, too bad. I’m not changing because you think I’m not babying your enough, and I doubt you’ll stop babying your child because I enforce the rules.

By jim d

April 10, 2006 03:02 PM | Link to this

:-)

By jim d

April 10, 2006 03:05 PM | Link to this

Jeff, How do you see that type of attitude fitting into the preaching profession? Preachers don’t generally pass judgement or hold people accountable.

Have you considered joining the bench? Sounds like you have the right tools for becoming a judge.

By Amazed (Independent Woman)

April 10, 2006 03:07 PM | Link to this

Meme,

You sound like a woman with an excellent plan, I wish others would follow your example. There are things you should not discuss with other peoples children.

What other parents do with their children, does not mean I will do the same with my child. A good example: Is the woman who served drinks to her son’s friends at a party and the other woman who had a stripper for a 16th birthday party.

There are just “SOME” things you should Never discuss, unless you have permission from a parent. I don’t care what anyone says, but until that child graduates from Highschool or decides to drop out - What the Parent says GOES.

I overheard a conversation between a 17 year old boy and his mother, he said that he had rights because he was 17. In my opinion he has the RIGHT to get out of my house and take care of himself. The mother’s words were my thoughts exactly.

By Yawn

April 10, 2006 03:13 PM | Link to this

Labmom is right, all school has been for a number of years is a babtsitting service…Amazed, I fully agree with you that an adult should feel the full force of the law when it comes to an adult/child relationship, i’d even go as far to say the death penalty should be used, but my point is that your lovely darlings are not always the ultimate victim that the media represents…YOUR 13 YEAR OLDS ARE SCREWING!!!!!

By ATL native

April 10, 2006 03:15 PM | Link to this

When I was in second grade, my dad took my brother & me out of school for an “orthodontist appointment,” actually a trip to see our beloved Duke Blue Devils play in the NCAA Tournament…too bad our orthodontist was three rows behind us at the game.

When I was in high school, I missed a day and a half every year to go to the ACC Tournament. I graduated as valedictorian, and in college I went on to skip days of class to extend breaks every so often (usually Thanksgiving, where I could sometimes have 10 days instead of 4 by skipping one day of class). My parents both worked in education for nearly 30 years, and neither of them disapproved.

My point is that some children are equipped to handle these things. If they understand that it’s a special occurrence and are academically adept enough not to suffer, what’s the big deal? The extra six days or whatever is, indeed, excessive, but I don’t think an extra Friday here or there is the worst thing ever. Moreover, if you inform the child that it’s their responsibility to make up the things that they miss, there is still a lesson to be learned.

By Jeff

April 10, 2006 03:23 PM | Link to this

Jim,

Ah, but preachers are supposed to! (Not phariseeiclly, but there are MULTIPLE Scriptures saying that we MUST judge. This is neither the time nor place, but I would suggest reading the Pauline letters.)

I’m not fit for the bench. I’m FAR too lenient.

Amazed: As noted earlier, I’m unconventional. I try to be open with my kids so that they see me as someone they can relate to. I don’t do the whole “Stained Glass Masquerade” deal. Teachers who were all high and mighty are the very ones that made my life a living he## as a student, and I REFUSE to be that way.

By another teacher

April 10, 2006 03:24 PM | Link to this

I have taken my children out of school before as well. Never extra days beyond vacation, though, because my pay will be docked if I do that.

I refer to them as “mental health days.” Of course, they know that it is their responsbility to make up work. Your mental health is just as important as your physical health.

By hs sped

April 10, 2006 03:34 PM | Link to this

jim d, Are you a fan of John Taylor Gatto? Why?

By jim d

April 10, 2006 03:36 PM | Link to this

LOL, thanks Jeff, I needed a good chuckle.

Too lenient, too tough.

Guess we need to find you a job where both attributes will be appreciated.

By jim d

April 10, 2006 03:39 PM | Link to this

hs sped.

Sure am, man makes a whole lot of sense if you read his works. He’s done a great deal of research to document most of what he says too. But then thats a blog for another day as well.

By lone wolf

April 10, 2006 03:40 PM | Link to this

Someone was reading my mind today. I do not know how many times I heard “I was not here Friday (or Thursday for that matter), what did I miss? Parents act like just because their child is out that class, assignments, learning has stopped. Then their poor child has to make up assignments in 6 to 8 classes. This happens at Christmas time also; do the parents not look at the school calendars? They are posted a year in advance.

By Susie

April 10, 2006 03:40 PM | Link to this

Jeff-the only problem with this statement: “I’m interested in holding my students accountable to the choices they make.” is that some of the kids aren’t staying out of school of their own accord, some of them are with their parents, who, whether you like it or not, have more control of what their kids do than YOU do. So you are punishing the kids for doing what their parents are making them do. Guess what? If I can’t leave wherever it is I am and get back before Monday morning, my kids are going to be with me until I get back. That’s just the way it is, and it’s not my kids fault NOR is it their responsibility to get themselves home.

Don’t even get me started about the teacher who threatened to punish my son (or not,) depending on what “I” did or didn’t do. I brought her little a$$ down to earth in a hurry, and will anyone else who thinks they can do such a thing with one of my kids.

By E. Lewis

April 10, 2006 03:43 PM | Link to this

Just wait until these students go to college and find out that once you pay your tuition, no one really cares whether or not you show up. Unless it’s for act of God, if you miss class, that is your problem. Enough absences mean you get dropped or fail. There is no such thing as makeup work because you took an extra day for Spring Break and you don’t get your $$ back.

By Einstein

April 10, 2006 03:46 PM | Link to this

Family comes before school, especially if it’s only for an extra day. The school year is a jumbled mess based on teacher workshops, bad scheduling and days off that matter to no one except the school district. Can’t wait to see the number of avaerage student missed days when school districts try to impose class year round. Just a guess that they will increase substantially.

By wwww

April 10, 2006 03:48 PM | Link to this

Wow. Some on this blog, truly scare me with their self important attutides.
Perspective is all I’m saying. We only get one life. Personally, I like going on vacation with my family. I doubt there are many here who would rather work than go on vacation. You have to enjoy life. Having said that, balance is key - education is important, necessary for a successful life, but it’s not all children should have. If they miss one day here and there to spend time traveling, does it really matter in the grand scheme? Will one day cause them to fail forever? Of course not!
There are some parents who put their child’s education last on the list - for those students, that is a shame. However, teachers should realize they are but one person on that child’s life journey - sure, one person can make a difference, but it is usually several people combined that make the greatest impact. For those teachers who feel as though it is a personal affront for their students to miss classes here and there, remember they will be gone and off to other teachers next year - hopefully, anyway! There is only so much we as educators can do. To raise the child is not our responsibility, and trying to make it so is a mistake.

By Jeff

April 10, 2006 03:51 PM | Link to this

Susie,

In Reality Land you can’t just make up your own rules. Reality Land has its own rules and one of those is that when school is open, your child is supposed to be in attendance. (Period.) Another is that you will be held accountable for your choices. If you, as the adult there, don’thave more responibility than to allow your child to be out, you need to realize that you aren’t the only one suffering for your irresponsibilities. A third is that life isn’t always fair, get used to it.

By C.R.H.

April 10, 2006 03:54 PM | Link to this

Wow Susie, you brought “her A** back down to Earth”…I hope your kids are in my class so we can have a parent conference. I am resigning my position to take a better paying job…don’t think you or anyone else has a chance to put someone in my position “back down to Earth”. And on topic, I don’t care if they miss days, unexcused absence = less work for me to grade! If they don’t get the material, they can come in for tutoring or learn it on their own.

By WWWW LOVER

April 10, 2006 03:58 PM | Link to this

“To raise the child is not our responsibility, and trying to make it so is a mistake.”

———-best statement today————

By Laura

April 10, 2006 03:59 PM | Link to this

I graduated from college and I didn’t have perfect attendance. I do remember skipping classes for trips, rallys at the capital, a meeting with the governor, working, being ill, because I was hungover, to attend sorority functions, because my dad was in town on business, and when the space shuttle exploded the first time (Challenger) among other reasons. Who cares if I wasn’t in class every day? I still have a diploma from high school and a degree from college.

By Yawn

April 10, 2006 04:00 PM | Link to this

Effe you Susie….

By lone wolf

April 10, 2006 04:02 PM | Link to this

Is it impossible to leave on Saturday, Sunday, or Monday? Perhaps the reason traffic is so bad on the Friday before Spring Break is because SO MANY PARENTS PULLED THEIR KIDS OUT OF SCHOOL. Read TIME Magazine this week and you will find that kids take plenty of time off once they realize that education is not important.

By BlindHomer

April 10, 2006 04:04 PM | Link to this

Robert - The consensus on this blog is that 49th is a very bad statistic. It’s largely the result of 28% of the tested being lower scoring blacks (SET will explain the heritable differences causing this) compared to a national average around 12%. Jeff - I can no longer defend you and that KSU degree. The consensus says you’re way too strict? Save yourself before an irate parent goes postal on you with the administration’s blessing.
Susie - Huh? You and the ex need to plan actitivites around the school schedule, not expect school to accomodate your plans, if you want to establish school and attendance in general as things your family values.

By wwww

April 10, 2006 04:05 PM | Link to this

Thanks! :)

You just made my day.

By wwww

April 10, 2006 04:08 PM | Link to this

Susie,

It’s unfortunate you approach you child’s teachers in this manner. Your child’s teacher was probably concerned about his or her education - remember, it is us that is held accountable for what they learn, not you. While you have every right to do as you see fit with respect for taking your child out of school, it leaves us holding the bag. Perhaps it is you who needs her a$$ brought back down to earth. We do not work FOR you, but we would like to work WITH you.

By Mike

April 10, 2006 04:09 PM | Link to this

Come on Jeff - this has nothing to do with some sense of responsibility you feel. Your actions & words - just like your desire to enter the ministry - are more indicative of a god complex.

Teachers are hired to teach - period. All the other stuff is up to the parent - or not if they so choose. Of course you & those like you interfere in areas of no concern to you try to hide behind comments that you do it because “you care” or “are trying to do the right thing” when the bottom line is that you’re simplying imposing your will on a bunch of kids w/no choice but to be stuck sitting in your class.

You claim to be “unconventional” - which is just code for “never got along”, “can’t get along”, “can’t agree with anyone” and “resent everyone who did better than me in life”. You got into teaching to take it out on the children of the people you were envious of in school.

Funny how you would consider your self worthy to substitute your own judgment over that of an experienced parent. Maybe that religious thing might work after all - ever consider applying for Pope?

By Susie

April 10, 2006 04:11 PM | Link to this

So, what would YOU (jeff and CRH) if a teacher told your child that “your mother WILL call me tomorrow at 12:30 or you will get in school suspension? HELLO? I have this thing called A JOB, and she didn’t know where I was going to be or what I was going to be doing at 12:30 the next day. In fact, we were closing a MORTGAGE at work at 12:30 the next day, and her schedule was just somehow not my problem at that moment. I told her that she’s not the only one with a JOB, and that my life doesn’t revolve around HERS, and if she wants to talk to me, she can call ME whenever it’s convenient for her. I don’t take orders from teachers, and I shared that tidbit with her too. She might be able to intimidate a 12 year old boy, but not me. She apologized to me and to him.

She’s the first and last teacher I’ve had a problem with in my school district in the 12 years I’ve had kids in school there.

Would any of you teachers here do something like that?

By Amazed (Independent Woman)

April 10, 2006 04:19 PM | Link to this

People take extra time from work, college and other obligations all the time (with and without pay).

Susie is right, you are trying to punish the child for a parents choice.

Parents don’t have much input when the school schedule is being put together. I’m not off work for GOOD Friday, what the BLANK are our children out of school for. They just came back from SPRING BREAK.

It’s a good thing, I have the ability to work from home. Not all parents are as fortunate as I am when it comes to work schedules.

Now what if I were OFF for GOOD Friday and School was insession? Oh well, I want a LONG Weekend in the Bahamas. I can’t GO, because my daughters teacher is mad because I’m off for GOOD FRIDAY and wants too punish my child.

By Peachy

April 10, 2006 04:25 PM | Link to this

Jeff: Long-time reader, first time poster… I am trying to figure out why you went into teaching. I know your troubled past, so you don’t have to go into detail on that. I am not that much older than you, but am already in my 5th year of teaching, and if there’s one thing I learned early on, it is not to go around espousing your personal views and private life to kids, ESPECIALLY high schoolers. Did they not bring that up in any of your education classes? That just seems like common sense. What are your plans for next year? Teaching elsewhere, or something different?

By wwww

April 10, 2006 04:32 PM | Link to this

Susie: No, I would not do anything like that, nor do I know a teacher who did, does or would. Then again, I take parents, and sometimes other teachers, with a grain of salt. It’s been my experience when a parent (or a teacher) is being strangely unreasonable, it has absolutely nothing to do with the situation at hand, and is usually a personal problem he or she is dealing with in an inadequate manner by taking it out on others.

This does not excuse this teacher’s behavior, and as I do not know her or the situation, I can only speculate.

By C.R.H.

April 10, 2006 04:32 PM | Link to this

Susie, teachers do not assign ISS, that is an admnistrative task. Maybe you should have sent a note explaining some circumstances instead of jumping the gun. You would be amazed at how few parents communicate with the teachers…and no, I don’t need to know what my students (or their families) are doing every minute they are away from me, but I will not have some parent jump on me for enforcing the rules. If students are not in school, who should get the “blame”? And how is it “punishment” for the student when rules are enforced? If my insert relative here dies and I leave to go out of town and I can’t get my grades turned in for the report cards, should I not face consequences? Life is full of choices…

By jim d

April 10, 2006 04:38 PM | Link to this

I Personally think some of y’all are taking this way too seriously.

Do what you wish with your kids schedule nobody really cares. Sure they gripe and complain about you as parents, but they really don’t give a flying sh#@. It’s just their job.

By Mike

April 10, 2006 04:50 PM | Link to this

Jim - I do aree with you (as I tend to most of the times in these posts). Except that when teachers like Jeff admit they intentionally schedule quizes & tests as a punitive measure in response to a parent’s exercise of free-will (ie taking an extra day off on a break) it is serious & is crossing the line.

By Fed Up

April 10, 2006 04:51 PM | Link to this

School and work are two different things. My kid is not being paid to go to school. Quite the contrary, I am paying the school to educate my child so they work for me… not the other way around. A person is paid to do a certain job at work, and when they fail to do so, they are not holding up their end of the bargain.

Also, excellence is typically rewarded at work, or if it is not, you are free to go get a job where excellence is rewarded. In public school, excellence is not rewarded. Once you reach mediocre that’s all you get. From my experience the truly smart kids are acutally punished in the public school system.

If a kid gets straight A’s with ease, they should be able to do whatever the heck they want especially since the public school system is not willing to challenge them to their potential. Gifted programming in public school is a complete joke. If they have mastered what is required of them, it is a waste of their time to sit around and do busy work. Either challenge them or let them go find a challenge elsewhere! As for any kid who is not making straight A’s, they do need to be there every day because they have not mastered the material.

I teach my kids a heck of a lot about responsibility and how to succeed in life. I have had more than one teacher compliment me on how our family handles personal responsibility. Part of becoming successful and personally responsible is knowing when you time and talents are being wasted. If my kids’ time is being wasted in school, i.e. the teacher refuses to challenge my daughters but instead tells them to just go read in the corner or to repeatedly tutor one of the slow kids, I feel no reservations about pulling them out to do something that will enrich their lives. Otherwise they would go insane.

Again, I won’t be “bringing any teachers’ butts down to Earth over it,” but some government beaurocrat certainly won’t be bringing my family “down to Earth” over it either.. not as long as money flows from me to them.

We don’t abuse days off from school by any means, but if I want to take my kids off on an educational trip for a couple of days I can’t imagine getting grief about it.

I love this blog! It continually reinforces my resolve to get my kids the heck out of the public school system asap.

By jim d

April 10, 2006 04:53 PM | Link to this

And some of you educators need to back up as well. Try to understand this passage from Gatto’s speech when he accepted the New York City Teacher of the Year Award in 1990.

“Family is the main engine of education. If we use schooling to break children away from parents - and make no mistake, that has been the central function of schools since John Cotton announced it as the purpose of the Bay Colony schools in 1650 and Horace Mann announced it as the purpose of Massachusetts schools in 1850 - we’re going to continue to have the horror show we have right now. The curriculum of family is at the heart of any good life, we’ve gotten away from that curriculum, time to return to it. The way to sanity in education is for our schools to take the lead in releasing the stranglehold of institutions on family life, to promote during school time confluences of parent and child that will strengthen family bonds.”

By Yawn

April 10, 2006 04:55 PM | Link to this

Preach on Jim! I quit caring the day they took my union away!

By jim d

April 10, 2006 05:01 PM | Link to this

Mike, I think Jeff is just jerking your chain. While I’m sure he gives a test or quizz a day or so before break, I seriously doubt he’s doing it in retaliation. In fact many teachers do give test during the week before an extended break and I don’t find this out of the norm.

No, I thinks Jeff’s sugar level may just be off a bit today.

By Jeff

April 11, 2006 08:20 AM | Link to this

Jim, You are correct. I don’t have anything to retaliate against the kids FOR. Even the things that I’d LIKE to, I’m bigger than that…

Mike: Get this through that thick head of yours: It was NOT a punitive measure. It was a simple scheduling matter. As noted, I would have either had to give four days of review -so that I didn’t give a test the Monday they got back, as originally planned - or one day of review and test, as per my normal schedule.

Peachy: Correct answers to this will tell me just how much of the story you REALLY know: I spent time at 3 diff high schools, and my story began at a middle school. Without naming the schools - to protect my identity - name the mascots. If you get that, you already know EXACTLY why I went into education. My plans for next year are to be teaching somewhere else. HOPEFULLY I’ll get an alternative school job. I have a maverick streak a mile wide. I don’t talk about the things I currently do beyond answering a student directly and simply if asked a direct question. The things I reveal about myself are events that occrred years ago, though not ANCIENT history (as that is where my troubled story lies).

Mike: “Unconventional”: I was a near-perfect student, but severely emotionally troubled. (Once compared the pain to a nuclear blast going off right over my head and not letting me die.) Because of my grades though, the “ultra professionals” that you love so much FAILED ME COMPLETELY. It took a few teachers that shaped how I now operate for me to finally heal and succeed. My first day at the alternative school - if not long ebfore that, but I specifically remember that day - I determined to myself that I would NEVER operate the “ultra professionals” did. Even then, I knew they were needed. But I also knew that they let a TON of kids fall through the cracks. And I made it my mission to rescue those kids. I was one of them, and I would later come to knwo successes that even most of the “normal” kids never know of. I overcame in spite of the “ultra professionals”. But I knew many like me wouldn’t have the strength or the backing that I had. So I came back to give them the one thing they are usually missing the most: hope.

By b. white

April 11, 2006 08:25 AM | Link to this

My opinion is that often times a trip with parents is more valuable than a missed day of school. Of course habitual offenders aren’t helping their children, and consequences for unexcused absences often address this issue. I’ve been teaching far too long, but I reached my limit week before last. I don’t drink or smoke, but I intentionally stopped at a store on the way home fully planning on getting an alcoholic beverage. At this convenience store there was a liquor store, smoke shop,and lottery tickets. I could have killed three birds with one stone. I left with a chocolate Yohoo and bbq chips. Students at my school are truly killing me.

By Greg

April 11, 2006 08:44 AM | Link to this

I’d like to point out that this “Jeff” character has been responding to posts on this board from around noon to after 3pm on a school day. Got any classes to teach, or papers to grade, Jeff? Any lessons to plan? Or has you big three months of teaching burned you out so much that you just sit beghind your classroom computer screen and complain about administrators not backing you up, while the kids do worksheets and watch videos.

It takes someone special to be a real teacher. Anyone can stand in front of a classroom; few can actually teach effectively. Jeff sounds like one of the many, many people who should not be teaching. I’m glad to hear that he will not be after this year.

By Sir Jesse

April 11, 2006 08:47 AM | Link to this

My students need to be in school EVERY day! Parents who extend holidays with illegal absences are modeling that it’s o.k. to miss school & work…what job will pay them to take extended vacations once they’ve graduated? AND…Don’t get me started about the pressures on teachers to pace their content to match up with the scores of tests students must take!

Students & parents need to be as dedicated as the faculty & staff of the schools that serve them!

;>) COME TO SCHOOL! YOU DESERVE AN
EDUCATION!

By C.R.H.

April 11, 2006 08:57 AM | Link to this

For the uninitiated…some kids SHOULD only be doing worksheets. For reasons known only to them, these kids can NOT handle any type of activity that requires them to get out of their seat, interact in a group, or use manipulatives. These are the kids that will start fights, wonder around and get nothing done, or destroy equipment. I am, by far, the most “hands-on” science teacher many of you would ever know, and I have a class of IDIOTS that I won’t do any type of activity with. If the term idiot bothers you, too bad. Apply for my job and you can have them, I’m done with them and those like them.

By meme

April 11, 2006 09:03 AM | Link to this

Just wanted to let you know I only had 1 student absent yesterday. Everyone else was back from their spring break on time. Will I punish the young lady who didn’t make it back. Not on your life! She is only 14 and must go where her parents go. It is not her fault.

By Jeff

April 11, 2006 09:17 AM | Link to this

I’m pretty much free everyday from 12:30 - 2:35. (Lunch, study hall, and planning.) If you notice, I RARELY post between 8:30 and 10:30, which is when my lecture-intensive classes are. (They’re working on a classwork assignment at the moment.)

I grade/ plan CONSTANTY, but fortunately I’ve got a system that works and it is pretty fast. (The low-levels I keep an idea as to what is coming up and plan the lesson on the fly, which is how I work best. The high-level typically requires MUCH more prep, but I generally do that on weekends before I teach it.)

By Manda

April 11, 2006 09:21 AM | Link to this

As a former student,(please I’m going to say that I have horrible spelling), my mom never let me skip school for the simple reason, she was a teacher! If I missed school then SHE had to call in for a sub too. But when I got older I only think I missed 5 days of high school in 4 years. I was never taken out of school early or late. Nor do I think that I’d want to be. Also I have been known to call in “sick” to work. just to be a few hours late, or something. Although its not really a big problem. Just actually once every 6 months I’ll be like can I come in about 3 hours late?

In college, skipping classes is so much eaiser. Its really hard to find someone who HASN’T skipped a class. I think that my boyfriend has only skipped one class this whole semster and he graduates in may, KUDOS!

My opinon is this, if they are not there to learn then they need to be responisible for the material, you can’t give students a free ride. You want to miss school, ok, here is the work that piles up because you did miss it.

By E. Lewis

April 11, 2006 09:49 AM | Link to this

Look at this from a teacher prospective. You have 125-150 students. You have to create lesson plans, conduct classes and grade homework/tests. Believe me when I say that a 50 work week would be a break to most teachers.

Now add into the mix a student who takes time off because of sickness or some serious event. Each one of those students must be handled specially. Not only do they have to be graded separately, but they also have to be caught up on missed class time and homework/testing. When this happens with one or two students that’s one thing, but when you have 10%+ per class missing school because they want to go on vacation early or stay an extra day or two you are talking about holding up the entire class. Sounds a bit selfish doesn’t it?

By Elsie

April 11, 2006 09:53 AM | Link to this

I missed a few days of school while growing up, and it didn’t have a negative impact on my grades or my education. As a teacher, I’ve never had a problem with a student missing one day here or there. The problem is not with these students- their parents notify the school ahead of the intended absence, arrange for make-up work, and ensure that the make-up work gets done. The problem comes with the OTHER students- the ones that miss 2-3 days on each end of every school holiday. Where a one-day absence is not a problem, repeated absences ARE a problem! These are invariably the students who can least afford to be missing school. And when these students do poorly on the standardized tests, it eventually works its way around to reflecting on me. (That’s not selfishness on my part, it’s self-preservation.)

By Teacher Teacher

April 11, 2006 10:15 AM | Link to this

Folks,

Great learning takes place outside of school, too. Vacations not only entertain, but teach. The days before and after holidays at schools are typically wasted days anyway. Most students and teachers look forward to such breaks! Schools are too much like prisons already. That’s a big reason why students act the way they do…they rebel against the strict rules imposed on them, rules that are not fairly followed by those who impose them.

Give me a break. Can’t we all just get along?

By Susie

April 11, 2006 10:31 AM | Link to this

WWWW, did you bother to read what this teacher said to my son?

I’ve never had a problem with any teacher, ever, (before her) in the years I’ve had kids in school. And that’s a lot of years. My kids are not behavior problems because they know it would never be tolerated by their father and me. Any time I’ve had a teacher call me, it’s been because they were concerned about something, and we have worked together to fix whatever the problem was. I spent my years as a stay at home mom helping whoever my kids teachers were, whether it was sending in extra classroom supplies, or having the teacher send me stuff to cut out for her bulletin boards.

You have no idea how I “approach” my kids teachers, but I do, and my “approach” is that the ones I know work hard and help my kids all they can. At the holidays and the end of the year, instead of sending the teachers more “greatest teacher” magnets, I put thought into something that they can use and enjoy, (usually movie tickets or something like that.) I don’t “approach” teachers in a bad way. I just won’t be told what to do by one, and my son won’t be punished if “I” don’t comply with her “orders.”

That teacher flew off the handle and realized she’d done something she shouldn’t have. She apologized to me and to my son, and all is well. She’s a human being, but the kids she’s teaching are human beings too, and so are their parents.

I am not the typical parent that goes off if someone doesn’t treat their “precious” just so. If one of my kids isn’t doing what they are supposed to be doing, then the teachers have my support and they know it. I absolutely won’t tolerate my kids not doing their jobs in school. But if someone crosses a line like that teacher did, I will call them out on it. Don’t like it? Too bad.

You have never seen me on this blog trashing teachers and you never will. So save your crap for someone who does.

By Susie

April 11, 2006 10:38 AM | Link to this

Amazed, I’m not off for a wasted week in February, for MLK Day, or for a wasted week in October either, but my kids are out of school. I only get two weeks of vacation a year, and I have NO intention of taking them in October and February. Luckily my kids are old enough to stay home alone while I work now. So, they spent a week in Feb. sitting in the house watching it rain while i worked. Some “break,” huh?

We will go on vacation in the summer, like God intended. I don’t know why they are so obsessed with shortening the summer and throwing in all these idiotic weeks off at random throughout the year. The kids old enough to stay home do that, and the little ones go to day care. I fail to see the point in it, other than just trying to wiggle in year round schooling, thinking none of us will notice.

By Susie

April 11, 2006 10:47 AM | Link to this

Homer, sorry, but sometimes we just can’t expect family members to plan a funeral out of state around my kids school schedule. While it was inconsiderate of this family member to die during the school year like that, sometimes it just can’t be helped. They wanted to get there in time for the visitation at the funeral home, and there isn’t any way to do that if you are sitting in atlanta for two hours. Did you notice where I said they left at 3? (that was AFTER school was out.)

The bottom line is that if you have to be somewhere at a specific time, (and especially if it involves getting out of atlanta on a friday,) sometimes you have to pull the kids out early. when my kids were younger, their teachers would just have a “game day” or “accelerated reader” party during the afternoon on days before breaks anyway, so they didn’t miss anything.

I think I also said, that if there were any assignments or classwork, I asked the teacher for them and made sure they were turned in when we got back.

School is a huge priority in our house. But sometimes there are things that we have no choice but to take care of and we have to take our kids with us. It’s ridiculous not to realize that.

By jim d

April 11, 2006 11:01 AM | Link to this

Y’all don’t accuse me of being a SET prodigy again today and I’ll explain a few hard facts. You won’t like them, but here goes.

The majority of our students can’t cut it in the core subjects and we’ve already heard all of the old excuses and myths: kids can’t afford to miss one day, schools need more money, teachers don’t get paid enough, charter and private schools are elitist and the kids who attend them would do well anywhere, home schoolers are socially deficient and religious nuts anyway, vouchers are just a scheme to give public money to religious schools —yadda, yadda.

So we keep messing with public education. Tweaking it to improve it?

Meanwhile, the home-school rolls continue to swell and will soon exceed 2 million, then 3 million and more. Private and charter schools will continue to demonstrate excellence, variety and choice, and millions more will enroll. These kids will continue to be the cream in scholastic competitions around the world and will prove be the brightest at our universities.

The educational market is speaking (loudly) and will not be denied. Unless things change drastically and soon the public school system will collapse, like many of the old communist governments, under its own blind and bloated weight while it watches the accelerating exodus from public education of students from caring families.

I’ve given this a great deal of thought and highly recommend that more of you join Jeff in looking for future employment.(that in my opinion would be self preservation)

See—-told you you wouldn’t like it.It’s not a rosey picture, and not one I care to see. So we all need to get our stuff together, quit pointing fingers and in the words of Larry the Cable Guy; “get er done”

By Jeff

April 11, 2006 11:13 AM | Link to this

Jim,

I may be looking for employment next year, but I WILL be a teacher somewhere.

By jim d

April 11, 2006 11:18 AM | Link to this

Jeff, I’ve offered a couple of tips above as to where I’d look.

By SNY

April 11, 2006 12:05 PM | Link to this

Okay, yesterday someone said that you guys are taking this too seriously and they were right. I have a daughter in public school for the first time in her 5 years of schooling and I cannot wait until the end of the year so she can go back to private school. I choose what event is important enough in our lives for her to miss school. Not Gwinnett county!!!!! I took my child to Coretta Scott Kings funeral and was told that was unexcused per the county!! I was appalled. We attend church with Bernice King and my daughter and I attend our church’s Heart-to-Heart conferences and she was used to seeing Mrs. King there. In a sense to an 8 year old, she is a church member. I had every right to take her out of school for that occassion and I didn’t care that she received zeros for her work for the day. She’s an A and B student, she’ll bounce back. But think of all the history she was a part of and think of what stories she will be able to tell her children when she gets older. I gave her a better education that day than Gwinnett county could ever give her.

BTW, my husband has a job that has to put in vacation a year early. Their calendar is from June to June. Sometimes our plans do conflict with school because the school calendar for the next year doesn’t come out that soon. We try to use the current calendar year and hope that we are guessing correctly when we plan our vacations. Sometimes we are close, once we were actually a week off and we still took her out of school and she got to make up the work.

Communication with the school and the teacher is key. Every situation is different and teachers do understand if you TALK TO THEM, NOT AT THEM!!!!

By Susie

April 11, 2006 01:14 PM | Link to this

SNY, I think that taking your child out of school for Mrs. King’s funeral should have been excused, but while we do have the right to take our kids out of school for different reasons, the schools have the right to decide what is excused and what’s unexcused. I think any time a child gets to witness something completely educational or to actually be part of history, that should be excused.

But then there would be people who would totally abuse that, they’d say that their trip to the beach/stone mountain/the zoo/Six Flags was “educational” and try to get absences like those excused. You can always count on people who abuse EVERYTHING to ruin things for those of us like you and your daughter, who witnessed a truly historic event. Why not let the kids who went to the funeral do a special project about it to be presented to the class? (that’s just a rhetorical “why not,” I’m sure there are people who would figure out some way to abuse THAT, too.)

By SNY

April 11, 2006 01:26 PM | Link to this

Susie,

My daughter’s teacher actually let her make up her work, despite her administrators saying that it was unexcused. She told the class that she was able to see the current president and 3 past presidents. She also learned that Jimmy Carter is a former president. Before the funeral she just thought that Jimmy Carter was the name of the street her mommy used to work on.

No one can tell me that my child didn’t learn anything that day.

By Mike

April 11, 2006 01:46 PM | Link to this

Sorry but comments like Jeff’s on why he is teaching scare me (though I am a bit less concerned about Jeff because it’s easy to tell he’s full of it). No one hired him or any teacher to “rescue kids” or provide “hope”.

Teachers are hired for one purpose - to instruct our kids. One thing… one thing only. When teachers get filled with this pious “change the world” attitude lines begin being crossed such as what SNY experienced. We as taxpayers hire teachers to instruct the children in our community - not as their keepers.

By Susie

April 11, 2006 02:28 PM | Link to this

SNY, that’s cute about your daughter thinking Jimmy Carter was just a Blvd. What grade is she in, if you don’t mind me asking?

By Susie

April 11, 2006 02:32 PM | Link to this

Mike, at least SNY’s teacher did let her daughter make up the work she missed…it was at the school district level that the absence was deemed “unexcused.” Apparently the teacher thought it was dumb that it was unexcused too, if she let the little girl make up the work, AND let her tell the class about the funeral. Unfortunately it wasn’t the teacher’s rule to make as to how the absence was handled.

By SNY

April 11, 2006 03:03 PM | Link to this

Susie,

My daughter is in 3rd grade, but she is only 8 years old. Her b-day is in October so I started her early in private school. BTW, she is reenrolled for next year. I am getting her away from Gwinnett County. QUICKLY!!!!!!!!

Now, she can recite all of the presidents better than I can. She is concentrating on learning what state they are from now.

By Sir Jesse

April 11, 2006 03:20 PM | Link to this

Kidz need consistency and structure…discourage unlawful absences!

;>) ~ or homeschool them with all the field trips you want!

By Erin

April 11, 2006 03:37 PM | Link to this

I read this blog ALL the time but rarely post anything. Having said that, I think this has been a really interesting discussion.

I agree, taking kids out of school too often at the start/end of breaks is excessive. But sometimes, especially in the case of custody situations, it can’t be helped.

The poster whose daughter got to go to the King funeral got to experience something really historic. Good for her mom for doing that!

I went to DeKalb County schools and missed school only once for something other than illness or surgeries (I had some medical stuff that involved frequent surgeries).

I think an occasional missed day, as long as it doesn’t become too frequent, isn’t a bad thing. I’d only do it maybe once a year with my own kids.

By Susie

April 11, 2006 03:40 PM | Link to this

SNY, my 4th grader is only 9, because her birthday is in August…but she does really well. At first I worried about her being so young, but she sure showed me! I had considered holding her back from K a year, but that would have been a mistake, I see that now. She was reading really well when she finished pre-k. I wish we’d had the Ga. Pre-k when my boys were little. They went to a private preschool, and I liked it fine, but I was really impressed with the pre-k program that my daughter went to.

By wwww

April 11, 2006 03:55 PM | Link to this

Susie: Relax! I was simply referring to the tone you used. I understand you are/were angry, and if she intimidated your son on purpose, then rightfully so. It’s a sore spot for me, and a lot of other teachers, for parents to see us as someone who needs to be “brought back down to earth”. I cannot tell you how many times I’ve heard parents say, or insinuate, that I work FOR them. In some sense, I suppose that is true, but if I work for anyone, it is for the education of their child. I’m not here as a service to parents.
There is a fine line between taking pride in my job and taking it too seriously - like I stated before, I don’t get too out of sorts about kids missing days to spend with family.
It’s not my job to raise other’s children, when I go home, that’s it, I’m at home with my family. If a parent chooses to take their child out for whatever reason, go for it, the only thing that I require is that the student makes up the work on their own time.

By SNY

April 11, 2006 04:07 PM | Link to this

wwww,

I think that teachers in general do a good job. I also think that the job is hard, but in saying that, you do work for the parents or the taxpayers. I pay for private school and school taxes so I expect better service. If people have to pay school taxes they want to feel respected at all times. Even if you don’t want to respect them. Think of it this way - if you go to a resturant to spend your money and you ask for no lemon in your tea, there should be no lemon in your tea and the server should be nice about it. She shouldn’t get mad at you or tell you that you can’t have your tea that way. You are paying for it so you should have it the way you want it. Being a taxpayer is the same way. We want to be satisfied with the way that our money is being spent. To do that, you need to understand that we only want what is best for our children. We can all get along there just needs to be some ground rules.

By Manda

April 11, 2006 04:23 PM | Link to this

SNY: that’s really cool about taking your daughter to the King funeral. I was in public scholl. I did really well. Maybe its just different strokes for different folks.

By Manda

April 11, 2006 04:34 PM | Link to this

SNY, in saying that whole waitress bit, you should also treat you food server with respect. They are human and have feelings as well. Honey catches more bees.

By wwww

April 11, 2006 06:30 PM | Link to this

SNY: Point taken. I understand that my salary comes from tax dollars, and I understand the mentality you are putting forth. I also understand why Susie was so angry at her son’s teacher.

The problem here is this: we are talking about people, not iced tea with lemon. Children, as I am sure you are aware, are very complicated little somebodies. It is not as simple as tea with no lemon.

BTW, if I were a waitress, and someone I was waiting on was as condescending to me as you just were in that post, there would be no lemon in the tea dear, but there might just be something in its place. :)

By 30 year teacher

April 11, 2006 06:48 PM | Link to this

After reading but never commenting I finally have one comment. It’s obvious to me that Jeff is a) a very young and very inexperienced teacher b) has not been hired back by the school where he works. Perhaps with more time and guidance he could be a good teacher but I’d bet at this point because of his know it all attitude he will have a problem finding another teaching position. Your evaluations will follow you, Jeff. Perhaps you need to stop and revisit honestly the job you did in the classroom this year.

By Jeff

April 11, 2006 07:02 PM | Link to this

30 yr:

Isn’t it ironic that the very teacher that was a complete UNprofessional while I was in student teaching also has 30 yrs experience right now?

Anyways: Yes, I am inexperienced. But that is actually a strength with me. I rejected the indoctrination that is essentially all student teaching is. As for claiming that I “know it all”: I’ve never made that claim. Never will. I simply claim that my knowledge set involves a deeper understanding of the students, particularly those like me who the “ultraprofessionals” write off. Interestingly enough, I’m going on TWO interviews this week, and not getting a job offer from at least one of them would be pretty surprising. My principal has already said he would give me good recommendations, which he has already confirmed. As far as actually being evaluated: For whatever reason, it hasn’t happened. But unlike any of the posters on this blog, at least administration as been in a few of my classes of and on. They KNOW how I operate and why I do what I do, and they are supportive. Have I had parents complain? Yep. Was it something that was easily explainable to adminsitration? Yep. (Parent’s complaint? I was being “too hard” on the kid… in my COLLEGE PREP class!!)

BTW: In case y’all haven’t noticed: I don’t mind someone WHO HAS BEEN IN MY CLASSROOM critiquing me. It does in fact help and I do in fact try to adjust accordingly. A major pet peeve for me though is people who a) don’t know me and b) have never been in my classroom thinking they know more about what I make work than I do. ANYTHING I do that could be controversial is run by AT LEAST two other teachers and an administrator - BECAUSE I CHOOSE TO DO SO. This was NEVER something I was ordered to do.

By Jeff

April 11, 2006 07:07 PM | Link to this

For those who keep track of my post times:

It is approx 7:10p. I’ve put in my 13 hrs today - not counting the time driving this morning and on my way home in a few minutes (avg roughly 3 hr round trip). My grading is done and my plans are set for tomorrow’s execution.

Later! Have a nice night!

By Karen Armsby

April 11, 2006 07:27 PM | Link to this

Jeff, Good Job, are you sure you are a man and not a woman, with all of that multi-tasking? : )

By 30 year teacher

April 11, 2006 07:39 PM | Link to this

I have to hand it to your administration. I’d give you a good recommendation too if it meant that you wouldn’t be bringing your arrogance back to my school. You have so much to learn. How unfortunate that you were above all the “indoctrination” which might have made you a better teacher. And yes, I have never been in your classroom but I do read your blogs and some of your practices as declared by you are simply unacceptable. And also by the way…your comment about kids failing after being given a test several times speaks volumes for your teaching and lack of motivational skills.

Oh, did I mention that I have taught “at risk” kids for the past 17 years? All but two graduated, several are teachers (and good ones), several went in to law enforcement. I have been to many, many weddings, am god mother to 7 kids and just generally love and respect my students who return those feelings in kind. My students have made my life rich beyond anything I ever could have expected from these special kids who society pretty much had written off.

By luvs2teach

April 11, 2006 09:04 PM | Link to this

Wow - good topic, and an interesting, heated debate!

First, on topic - as a parent, I have, on occasion, allowed my children to miss school - and they weren’t sick!

I know, I know - shame on me!

First, let me say that from Kindergarten through 5th grade my son had perfect attendance for all but 1 year - that year he had pneumonia and bronchitis, and just couldn’t shake it. My daughter had perfect attendance in 3rd and 4th grade. We stressed early on the importance of being in school.

In high school though, things are different. There is a lot more work, and a lot more stress. As long as their grades were Bs or better, they could take one “mental health day” per grading period. Often it was used to work on projects or get caught up with reading. They were always responsible for any work they missed, and they couldn’t do this on a test day or the day a project was due.

We’ve always taken our family vacations in the summer, even before I was teacher, so missing school for that has never been an issue. However, I used to take them out for “Take Your Child to Work” day, and times when relatives were visiting, if we were going to do something interesting (like go to Fernbank). Again, I realize the value of family and the importance of learning outside of school.

Now, as a teacher:

The first school at which I taught, wanted us to give tests on the days before winter, spring, and summer break - Why? Because it kept the students in a highly-controlled environment. I always exempted anyone who missed the test - winter and summer break were the end of the grading period anyway - no way to make up.

This year, since my new school doesn’t make us do that, I found some really fun (but educational) activities that related to our topic of study. When kids who missed Friday before break asked me what they missed, I told them, “A fun activity - no way for you to make it up, so you are exempt.”

If a parent lets me know his/her child will be out, I give them work to make up, or exempt them from things they can’t make up (like labs). I don’t worry about whether it’s excused or not - I have too much other stuff to keep up with to worry about that. Good communication always goes a long way.

Now, to address some comments:

Amazed - thanks for acknowledging that teachers are human, but please remember that teachers haved died in student-led school shootings, students have lied about misconduct and abuse in retaliation to a teacher they didn’t like, students have had more sex with each other (and not the teachers), students have planted pipe-bombs in schools, and more students have been arrested with drugs, knives, and guns in school than teachers have (all also in the news recently, BTW). I’m not discounting your fears; please don’t discount ours. Your children are precious - so are mine, and I would like them to grow up with a live, happily employed parent who can continue to put food on the table.

To all who referenced who we work for…

I’ve been thinking about this for awhile now. Regular readers may remember that I work in my neighborhood school - so in effect, I pay part of my own salary.

I don’t think I work for the students. I am there to help them, and guide them, but I don’t work FOR them.

I thought perhaps I worked for the parents, but that’s not true either - parents need to look out for their child - I need to look out for all my students - that produces an occasional conflict of interest.

Since the taxpayers are funding the program, I thought maybe I worked for them, but that’s not completely true either, given how public education is funded - technically, some guy in Alaska has partially funded my job, since my county gets some Federal funds. Where does local control come into that equation?

I think I work for the community - business people who expect employees that can write a letter and make change. Homeowners who want their property values to go up. Some of these people may not have kids, but have a vested interest in the success of the schools just the same.

What do you think?

By Mike

April 12, 2006 11:24 AM | Link to this

luvs2teach - I think the insight in your final point is dead-on

By Lee

April 12, 2006 03:49 PM | Link to this

Luvs2teach, regarding school work on the days immediately prior to and after a break, sounds like a good, common sense approach to me.

What always infuriated me was when my child was forced to miss a few days (due to sickness, etc), we would often phone the school for her assignments and typically only one or two teachers would take the time to give them to us.

Finally, although I realize the importance of regular attendance, Life Happens. I have no problem taking them out for an occasional day or two if the situation warrants it. Most teachers realize that not much is going to get done immediately prior to or after a holiday or break and work around it.

If the schools can take weeks to prep them for an insane CRCT test, I can take a few days for whatever reason that I - the PARENT - feel like.

By Laf

April 12, 2006 04:13 PM | Link to this

I certainly agree with 30 year teacher assessment of the administration at Jeffs school. The principal as his school may even help him get a position at the central office for next year. My child will never be in his room. Since students only go to school for 180 days per year they should be encouraged to be at school every day. Good attendance is just another good work habit that should be promoted by parents and the school. Good attendance is very very important to employers. But there is no need to make a hassel out of this when a parent chooses to keep the student out of school. A positive relationship between the parent and the teacher is very important.

By Jeff

April 12, 2006 04:47 PM | Link to this

Ladies and Gentlemen, Let me make this clear: To my knowledge, there has been ONE parent complain about me. Comparatively, I have spoken with at LEAST 6 myself. Each of those six was skeptical at best when I first started talking to them, but I was able to explain my methods and standards so that by the end of our chat, each parent was satisfied that I was indeed doing the right thing and their child just needed to shape up. (For example: I talked to one mom who was concerned when her daughter came home and said the midterm was far too hard. I explained to her that I am a recent college graduate, this is a college prep course, and I am simply trying to prepare the daughter for the college level as best I know how, which means introducing them to that level at this stage. -Daughter is a lower classman.- I talked to mom for about 30 min and by the end her attitude was “Yep, daughter just needs to study more. Its a skill I’d rather her learn now rather than having a rude awakening in college.”)

BTW: I LOVE the Escalante quote from Stand and Deliver: “There will be no free rides, no excuses. … You are going to work harder here than you’ve ever worked before.” THAT is the standard I hold my kids to.

By Jeff

April 12, 2006 04:50 PM | Link to this

30 yr:

Thanks for the “arrogance” comment. My administration will get a GOOD laugh out of that! Of the 4 that I have worked with, THREE have said i need more confidence. They’ll be glad to know that according to you at least I’ve finally grown a pair!

By Becca

April 13, 2006 08:09 AM | Link to this

I am just guessing that Jeff is exaggerating his situation to make himself sound tough. He is being arrogant on this blog because it is anonymous. It makes him feel like he is in control. I read his comments and smile knowing that no matter how many times he says it, he is not quite as wonderful as he thinks.