Get Schooled

By Robert

April 3, 2006 10:00 AM | Link to this

Sure! Critical thinking skills, IMHO, are skills that students learn to evaluate a problem and how to solve problems (this includes selecting the right approach to solving the problem). A student must be able to analyze the information that is given, be able to discern what is not given and if it is required to solve, select a method to solve the problem, and then solve.

My method of teaching has been described by those that have observed me (and have written up official observations) as a facilitator. I see myself as a guide for students. I do not “spoon feed” students facts, but rather allow the student to reveal information as they need it as we discuss a topic or solve a problem.

Keep in mind that I teach high school students (mostly juniors and seniors) because this teaching method does require a more mature student. Even still, some students are not mature and become frustrated with this teaching style, expecting that I will simply “spoon feed” the facts that the students will regergitate on a test.

Critical thinking is a very important skill for engineers (solve problems), doctors (diagnose illnesses), and even good auto mechanics (to diagnose engine problems). We have all experienced bad auto mechanics that cannot find out what’s wrong and so they just start to replace every engine part sequentially until they happen to hit on the right thing - this mechanic does not have critical thinking skills.

By Decaturparent

April 3, 2006 10:02 AM | Link to this

I’m not a teacher, but I think that I have a fairly good grasp of what critical thinking means. Critical thinking skills involve the ability to think yourself through a complex problem. It also involves the ability to use judgement and apply past experiences to new situations. To me critical thinking skills are just as important.. (probably more important in the long run…) as knowlege of facts. Knowledge of facts really doesn’t do you much good in real life if you cannot apply them.

By Atlanta Teacher AW

April 3, 2006 10:38 AM | Link to this

As a history teacher, one thing I do to foster critical thinking is encourage students to not just identify history-related terms, but to also explain their historical significance. Too many times I see students spit out memorized facts, but I rarely see them take a step further to analyze WHY this person, place, or event is important.

On an unrelated note, I was pleasantly surprised to open the Metro section this morning and see my quote in the AJC! Thanks Patti— although, it took awhile to convince my friends and family that I wrote under that alias…which is why I’m adding my initials to all future posts. :)

By Robert

April 3, 2006 10:45 AM | Link to this

One other thought on critical thinking skills….

As a teacher, it is exhaustive to teach in this manner (exhaustive as in comprehensive). The teacher must not only know the content inside and out, but also know pedagogy well enough to imploy this type of teaching. With all due respect, I really do not know how any parent that is homeschooling their children can do this in all subject matter. After all, even high school teachers only specialize in one subject area(math, science, etc.). Even college professors only specialize in one subject area.

By SET

April 3, 2006 10:52 AM | Link to this

All well and good. But you are assuming that the government schools mean what they say. They don’t.

You will really see how critical they want anybody to think when you have a discussion about anything not politically correct. I can think of a few subjects but I won’t bother listing them. Use your favorites.

The school not only won’t tolerate anyone discussing the side of the subject they dislike, they will actively push the politically correct agenda.

OK, let’s mention a few. Gay rights, IQ and Race (or any genetic trait and race), government policy issues such as sex, marriage and abortion policy, affirmative action, The Great Society, welfare policy, the Treason Lobby, Open Borders….. to name a few. And then there is Economics and Evolution.

I’d like critical thinking and I’d like moderated debate, but government schools at this point in history will suppress free debate because of their needs keep anybody from being offended (by the mention of the unmentionable) and more importantly to them to push their official political agenda by indoctrination.

And a government school is open to all comers so there will be the violent students that will have emotional meltdowns if they ever do get confronted with reality. To avoid this the school avoids discussing what would offend.

Which is why modern teenagers as a rule know so little history.

As long as we have the one-size-fits-all, don’t-rock-the-boat schools we won’t be teaching critical thinking or much else. But since duplicity is a required component of these schools they will lie like a salesman to get more students and thereby more ADA money. In some areas (of CA) public school campuses are being closed due to lack of enrollment. Yet our Catholic High School is finishing completion of a huge knew classroom building put up in their old parking lot. Public schools are in a losing competition with the private schools, thus the salesmanship.

Catholic Schools have an agenda also but their kids graduate knowing how to read and count, and the drugs, violence, PDA and sex is kept at acceptable levels. I’m not happy about their dogma either but the kids I know enrolled in that school system at least know that the school is run by mystics who believe in things they can’t prove - so everybody takes the instruction with a grain of salt.

By Karen Armsby

April 3, 2006 10:55 AM | Link to this

I am not a teacher and I don’t think critical thinking skills are something limited to school teaching. Critical thinking skills enable anyone to do well in any area of life.

When my kids were in elementary school in the last century I started talking about critical thinking skills to all of their teachers. And it’s not just for mature students. Critical thinking skills can and should be taught to toddlers! You develop a dialogue with the child that gives information, asks for information in return, and then asks why the student thinks that information is correct in a continuing give and take. With toddlers you work with colors and patterns, numbers and letters. As children mature the complexity of subject matter and the scope of critical thinking increases. You use the context of the subject area in a process of give and take of information, substantiation and verification. Critical thinking leads to proactive behavior, not reactive responses. IMHO, learning how to learn is the goal of critical thinking.

By Nikole

April 3, 2006 11:04 AM | Link to this

Throughout undergrad, we were often told that in order to foster critical thinking skills, we need to incorporate lessons that use the higher levels of Bloom’s Taxonomy, Analysis, synthesis, evaluation. And anywhere you see a Bloom’s taxonomy is usually gives a list of verbs of how you go about being on that step.

By Jeff

April 3, 2006 11:25 AM | Link to this

Students are expected to think??? What a novel idea! My students don’t seem to think its a very good idea though…

Seriously though, I do my best to teach how to reason through a math problem - something NONE of my kids seem to know how to do. To me, knowing the mechanics is fine and dandy, but if you have no mathematical reasoning ability you are like the proverbial row boat with no rows…

By labmom

April 3, 2006 11:28 AM | Link to this

Critical thinking skills are often called higher order thinking skills. The inservice rage now is how to teach these skills. Presenters are making thousands of $$ off of school systems to train teachers to “teach” skills such as:comparing/contrasting, induction/deduction, error analysis, decision making, problem solving, and inquiry. These “critical” thinking skills were identified in 2002 by the U.S. Dept. of Ed. has having the greatest impact on student achievement. Also included were the skills of summarizing, vocabulary development, and the use of graphic organizers. Research on 90/90/90 schools (90%minority, 90% poverty, and 90% performing at or above grade level) showed that even poor schools that focused on those strategies improved and maintained the children’s level of achievement.

By MMM

April 3, 2006 11:39 AM | Link to this

Most considered discriptions of what an educated person is include “knowledge, reason, and wisdom”.

Unfortunately, knowledge is the only third of that trinity that can be measured on a multiple choice test. I don’t see any problem with defining knowledge we want covered and doing it state-wide with tests to make sure the schools are teaching and the kids are “getting it”. That just makes sense so that students that move won’t miss or have to cover the same thing over and over.

“Critical thinking skills” is just jargon for an ability to reason. Reason and wisdom are both important—but can only be modeled and encouraged by teachers and other adults that already posess them. Rarely are they present in the scripted “teacher proof” programs whose goals are to cram knowledge in to maximise test scores. This is the “teaching for testing” that may result in a school or child passing AYP and the CRCT respectively—-but failing in life.

By luvs2teach

April 3, 2006 12:13 PM | Link to this

Nikole and labmom pretty much summed up what I was going to mention, but I will add that it is VERY difficult to get students who aren’t used to critcal thinking (or higher-order thinking - pick your jargon) to start to do it.

My kids are great at learning facts (knowledge, or the lowest of Bloom’s taxonomy). If I ask them a straight-out knowledge question, most will get it right. But, once I start asking questions that require them to THINK or apply that knowledge, I start getting the “I don’t understand the question” type of answers.

I said one day, half-jokingly, that their brains were like muscles getting weak from lack of exercise, and one boy laughed and said I was right!

For those looking for more information about Bloom’s taxonomy, here’s a link:

text to be linked

By Facilitator

April 3, 2006 01:05 PM | Link to this

In response to Robert’s comment at 10:45, I agree that it’s difficult to see how a homeschool parent can guide their child through all 12 grade levels. The higher the grade level, the more specialization is required. I have a BA in literature, a masters in English education, 3 years in a literacy research environment, and I can certainly teach language arts; but I will never pretend that I could teach high school math or any of the sciences. I simply don’t have the specialized training in those content areas. Looking at the book won’t show me the best ways to help students learn those areas. I could probably teach some history, but not as well as someone who is trained in history methods.

I just don’t see how any parent, even if they have masters or PhD’s, will have the specific knowledge necessary in all subject areas- geometry, algebra, trig, calculus, biology, chemistry, physics, geography, all the histories, all the literature, foreign language, etc. to give their children everything they need.

That being said, I agree with the others here who have stated that critical thinking skills deal with helping students learn how to figure out problems for themselves (reasoning-based learning), as opposed to telling them things and having them regurgitate the facts (knowledge-based learning). I rarely directly tell my students information. I try to guide them so they will find the answer themselves. At first they look like deer in the headlights, because as 10th graders, they haven’t been asked to formulate their own thoughts much in prior learning experiences. They want to know what they’re “supposed” to say. Part of the method in teaching reasoning skills is building student confidence that they really can think, that their ideas really do have value. Once they get to that point the creativity really blossoms and they think and do things they never thought possible.

By MrLiberty

April 3, 2006 01:12 PM | Link to this

How “highly educated” could she be? She is planning on imprisoning her child with the government at one of their brainwashing institutions rather than continuing her excellent and superior choice of homeschooling.

“Critical thinking skills” is just another catch phrase the government schools have come up with to try and convince you they actually know what they are doing with regards to education.

Better idea - why don’t you use your critical thinking skills - you know, evaluating what is best and what is not for your child - and just keep homeschooling them.

New math, whole language reading, critical thinking skills - whenever you see any organization, albeit private or government, spout out new catch phrases and the like (especially if everyone is saying them) its a sure sign that they didn’t do this thing very well in the past, and they likey still aren’t doing it very well in the present.

“Quality is job #1” has to be said over and over because it isn’t obvious to everyone from the output they produce.

By jim d

April 3, 2006 01:24 PM | Link to this

Not to be argumentative,(well maybe just a little) but.

How does one teach common sense? How do you teach someone to think without teaching them what to think? And in so doing wouldn’t you be defeating the objective of teaching them to think for themselves?

Help me get a handle on this critical thinking skills thing.

By Leia

April 3, 2006 01:38 PM | Link to this

I taught my children how to play chess at a very young age. Of course, they didn’t play very well, but, they knew how each piece moved and learned about strategies and thinking a few moves ahead.

Critical thinking means, to me, that people are able to reason through a problem and come to a feasible solution. Oftentimes, I will tell my students that I’m not so much interested in them getting the right answer as much as I am interested in them reasoning through correctly. And yes, I grade their papers accordingly!

By Just Me

April 3, 2006 01:49 PM | Link to this

Leia - We’ve done the same for our children and we are teaching them to read music as well for the same reasons. I’ve noticed math skills are improving for our oldest, too.

By labmom

April 3, 2006 01:59 PM | Link to this

Jim, let me give you an example of a Third Grade lesson on comparing and contrasting, using a typical “acquisition” lesson. This would be a lesson teaching what comparing and contrasting is. The teacher would ask an “essential question” such as: How can we show similarities and differences between characters in two stories? The teacher then “hooks” or activates the lesson by reading a story that can be c&c’ed with a story that has already been read. The class does a whole class graphic organizer with everyone giving input on ways a character from each story are similar and different. Terms are then introduced and the children summarize what they have learned. Over a period of days and weeks the children move from whole class use of comparing and contrasting to group, then partner, and then finally, individually using that skill. After that the skill is built on in other content areas. The child proves that they are proficient with that skill when they are able to demonstrate their c&c ability on something such as a science project comparing/contrasting plant and animals cells. It is not just giving back information learned. The most recent edition of the SAT is “supposed” to be geared more toward higher order skills than what is called recall skills on Bloom’s Taxonomy.(Which is what the previous SAT questions were heavy on.)

By Leia

April 3, 2006 02:07 PM | Link to this

Just Me - I teach high school math and programming courses, and I have noticed that the better students are those who are also musical!

I also have Sudoku puzzles in my classroom (of varying difficulties) for the students to work on if they finish their assignments or tests early. So, there are never any students who are “off-task”, and those puzzles are definitely tapping into their sritical thinking skills and discovering patterns and having to think through a situation.

By Raymond Schweppe

April 3, 2006 02:13 PM | Link to this

Robert: Like your thoughts but what are we going to do about your spelling? (regergitate) My! My! Ray

By SET

April 3, 2006 02:29 PM | Link to this

Facilitator:

The government schools in most of urban CA are so bad that avoiding the damage and bad attitudes they engender in their students is half of the success in homeschooling. You produce a better product even if the parent lacks advanced education.

That doesn’t mean every homeschooled kid is ready for Harvard - but they will average much better than the average CA public school kid and that terrifies the educational establishment.

The average High School Graduate here can’t fill out a job application, choose the best cell phone calling plan, chose well from a set of credit card/loan offers, write an essay on a given subject when supplied with a selection of readings, etc.

I worked in a bank for a year and a half while in college in the early ‘70’s, I remember having to teach high school graduates how to answer a standard 5 line telephone and put someone on hold.

Back to point. Graduates who can think are able to work through new situations and new problems and issues by applying principles and data they have learned to applications not learned before. This ability really helps one stay out of jail and out of trouble.

Because homeschoolers seem to have to do more innovation and improvisation, thier (average) products are educationally stronger here than the (average) spoonfed coddled brats the public schools turn out. And I suspect the homeschooling parents might be aware of their shortcomings and work around them - where the public schools stick to doctrine come hell or high water.

I’m not a fan of homeschooling but I respect the parents who are so concerned that they go to this extreme to work with their kids. A good competitive private school is best but costs enough to make the parents work 2nd jobs (and pay higher taxes) to keep everything going. Most parents would rather work harder than deal with their kids anyway.

Maybe we should adjust the tax code to make all education spending fully deductable - at least the first $20k a year per person of any age. Then start charging tuition for the public schools also.

You’d see a lot more critical thinking being taught then.

By jim d

April 3, 2006 02:29 PM | Link to this

Lab mom,

I see. So first they are being taught to think as a unit, which will pretty much assure continued like thinking once they are permitted to think on their own.

Doesn’t that kind of defeat the purpose?

As much as I regret saying this, I really have to go with a great deal of what SET has stated above.

Let’s just look here within this blog. Some of the teachers (not all) posting here really have little tolerance for anyone that thinks differently then they do. If these same teachers, carry this attitude over into the classroom then tehy are in fact teaching the kids WHAT to think rather than allowing them to think freely. I find that troubling.

By jim d

April 3, 2006 02:47 PM | Link to this

More ??? regarding teaching critical thinking.

How is it possible to judge a child on thinking if they think differently than their classmates and teacher? Are they wrong? Who’s the judge? Are their grades affected because they think differently? How do you grade a child on what he thinks if you disagree with the thoughts?

By Just Me

April 3, 2006 03:06 PM | Link to this

Leia - Sudoku! I hadn’t thought of that, what a great idea. I learn something new every day. Thanks!

By labmom

April 3, 2006 03:11 PM | Link to this

I’m sorry, Jim, I don’t see how teaching children a skill is equated with teaching a child what to think. You can’t expect a child to select(using SET’s example)a cellphone plan without being able to look at the similarities between the plans, the differences, and deciding which plan works best for you. That is not an inate ability. Some people are better at it than others, and it may come more easily for them. But, you can learn the skill, and with practice, use it in all sorts of practical areas. So the child demontrates the ability to think critically using the skill of comparing and contrasting. What they think is then justified by their evidence. You’re not judging the child’s thinking; for grading purposes, you’re judging the child’s process used to arrive at their opinion. I can tell if a child understands the similarities and differences between a plant cell and an animal cell. And, I can grade them on the use of the compare/contrast skill.

By Nikole

April 3, 2006 03:27 PM | Link to this

Jim-if you think of it terms of Bloom’s taxonomy, you are not telling them how to think, you just them to be able master certain skills, such as being able to criticize or defend, make evaluations, design and organize plans and proposals the list goes on.
Many teachers often give credit to students that have the wrong answer sometimes, but can defend the answer they have given if it makes sense.
Many schools have always taught higher order skills, but only in recent years has it gained so much attention. Urban schools often don’t get past the lower levels of knowledge and understanding and the use of many scripted programs produce just that. Also, when I say urban it is not a black/white thing. It is more of urban (lower ses) and suburban (lower ses) comparison.

By labmom

April 3, 2006 03:35 PM | Link to this

I don’t post very often because elementary teachers just don’t have time to sit at a computer or their desk very often throughout the day. But the theme that seems to run through so many threads is: all homeschool is good, any private schooling is better than public schooling, and all public schooling is bad. In the past two years I have dealt with homeschool children who couldn’t pass the state CRCT, private school children who fit right in with my public school class, and public school kids who outshone their homeschooled and private school peers by miles. You just can’t make blanket statements about any of the three schooling options. I have recently been forced to take a student into my classroom that has decimated a class with his bullying and disrespect. The mother, not liking my expectations for his placement in my class, raled that she would take him out and homeschool him. Where is the negative in that? Please, homeschool him. The children in my class would sleep easier at night, and I will finish out the year without having to invest in Pepcid stock. Unfortunately, it was just another idle threat. The kid showed up in my class.

By Nikole

April 3, 2006 03:45 PM | Link to this

I agree labmom. It annoys me that some think one is better than the other, but in the field of education, one of the first things you’ll ever learn (taught to you and experienced) is that no one thing is good for all students. They are individuals, with individual needs and preferences, and while it is a major complaint with public schools, we do not feel that one size fits all. You cannot guarantee the future life success of any student based on whether they attended private, public or home schools.

By jim d

April 3, 2006 04:04 PM | Link to this

Ok, labmom,

I’ll buy that.

So what you’re saying though is that if a child were to read about nazi germany and conclude that what happened prior to the defeat of germany was morally correct, you’d have no problem with that provided the child used logic. No conversation to attempt to change their minds?

To be quite honest, you’re special. Not many teachers would let something like that slide.

By Manny

April 3, 2006 04:11 PM | Link to this

labmom - Please don’t even respond to jim d. It is apparent that he didn’t get enough hugs as a child! He just likes to argue no matter how stupid it makes him look!

By luvs2teach

April 3, 2006 04:16 PM | Link to this

As science teacher correcting labs, I’ll accept any conclusion that is based on a logical interpretation of the observed data - my problem is getting them to think about the data logically!

They want me to tell them the answer; they NEED me to tell them the answer - they want the answer? They can’t handle the TRUTH that they need to think it up themselves!

jim d - regarding your hypothetical neo-nazi child, no, I wouldn’t have a problem with the child’s logic per se, but I’d be questioning the morals and information he on which he based his answer.

By labmom

April 3, 2006 04:19 PM | Link to this

Jim, as a third grade teacher, thank God I don’t have to deal with such a scenario. But, I’m teaching in a part of a county that is ungracefully dealing with the change in color and culture that might make dealing with such a position moot. The folks with that opinion are hightailing to points north. But imagine a high school teacher being able to discuss with a child their reasoning for coming to that conclusion and justifying their conclusion. It would be more refreshing and stimulating than “That’s what my parents think.”

By labmom

April 3, 2006 04:21 PM | Link to this

Sorry, Manny, to quote one of my more articulate third graders,”I done, did.”

By Chris

April 3, 2006 04:42 PM | Link to this

Critical Thinking is an ability to dissect the details of a problem, situation, or circumstance and be able to see it from many (all ) perspectives for a best solution. A combination of a specific skill, logic, and recognition of intent.

i.e. I hear what the news is telling me, but what does it really mean? … or, I see that two plus two equals four, but what is the intent, goal, and best decision to be made from that information? Do I have all the inputs? I teach statistics part-time at the collegiate level and am astounded how many students can “plug & chug”, but can not dissect the information deeply enough to make sound decisions or recognize when information is missing - or worse, they are being mis-led.

To best teach statistics, I have found it is extremely helpful to get the students to challenge the everday things they previously had come to accept. Somewhat of a free-license to throw a two-year-old’s tantrum and ask themselves “why?” five times until they felt they had all the details and understood the intent of the message’s originator or the problem’s result.

By Robert

April 3, 2006 04:44 PM | Link to this

Some posters really add very little to these blogs, but only are here to further their own agenda (jim d, SET, MrLiberty)…. I recommend to all to do what I do - I see these handles and simply skip their post.

To define critical thinking skills, think of it this way: you are on a deserted island with limited materials. You have to decide what materials to consume (use up, not necessarily eat), what materials to save, what materials to use to possibly get off of the island, what materials to use to be identified by a search plane, what natural resources are useful already on the island, and so on. All of these issues require critical thinking, or analyzing a problem, to find the best possible answer.

In my science class, I require that students write down everything given in a problem, write down what the problems is asking for, and write down possible formulas/concepts that they could use to solve. The identification of these three things is where all problem solving begins and I think is the first step in critical thinking. You have to know what you know before you can go to the next step.

I have a number of projects in my class where critical thinking should be used. Do all students use it? Heck no….. some just jump right into the project and do whatever “looks right.” However, the students that follow the proper sequence find that they learn a lot about problem solving. I always note to these students that once they learn HOW to solve a problem, they can use this skill in ANY class.

By the way - I know that I cannot spell well at all… sorry! I teach science.

By SET

April 3, 2006 04:50 PM | Link to this

A public School Science Teacher….. hmmm

Interesting.

It’s really nice to understand where the posters are coming from.

By E. Lewis

April 3, 2006 04:53 PM | Link to this

Critical thinking skills are what so many students are lacking when they enter college. These days we are teaching satudents how to pass test, not necessarily how to think beyond the obvious.

Critical thinking skills are exactly that. Skills that allow a person to think beyond the obvious.

By BlindHomer

April 3, 2006 05:04 PM | Link to this

Nice to see that so much time and energy is devoted to teaching critical thinking, but I still see my daughter’s educational experience as 95% acquisition of knowledge, 5% critical thinking. jim d - Mixing two branches of philosophy, ethics and logic, invalidates the logic of your attempted point. An argument may be logically valid despite your ethical differences with the conclusion of the argument.

By SET

April 3, 2006 05:09 PM | Link to this

An interesting thought from the previous blog posts here:

Kids can be very good at taking an unpopular position in a debate and hanging on to it to freak out the adults. I wouldn’t be surprised at all with debaters supporting the Third Reich as a bare minimum for the excercise and for the reaction it would provoke in the opposition - a reaction that might throw the opponent off his game. I don’t think our (CA) public schools could live with any critical thinking excercise that went too far from politically correct doctrine. It would be fun though…

I’m not advocating for Homeschoolers or saying that their products are superior - only that their average performance in this state (and maybe elsewhere) may lead one to say the practice is not always child abuse.

As far as Robert’s slam against certain bloggers by name - If someone want to blog only with people who see things your way they can do so. This is Patti’s blog and we are trying to stay within her guidelines, one of which is no personal sniping. So I for one chose my words and avoid the same but I know my contributions will not sit well with those happy with the status quo in public schools.

Good. I’m not happy with the public schools, and I wonder what the school establishment thinks is waiting for them at the rate they are going? Hint: Check out the UAL retirees and what’s about to happen to the GM workers.

Back on point: Critical Thinking. Great concept. We should try to encourage it. Makes me remember participating in Car Rallys at night in the SF Bay Area when I was 16 and Gas was 50 cents a gallon or less. One driver and one navigator per car and a trail of clues. If we tried it now with these 16 year olds they’d wind up driving into the Bay. (unless they had internet access in their cars)

Night all!

By jim dumond

April 4, 2006 08:40 AM | Link to this

SET,

As far as Robert’s slam against certain bloggers by name.

While Robert and I do have differences of opinions we must remember two things.

1)People’s behavior makes sense if you think about it in terms of their goals, needs, and motives

2)There is no education like adversity.

By high school teacher

April 4, 2006 08:48 AM | Link to this

The only problem I have with accepting any answer as long as they can justify it is that students won’t be able to do that in the real world. The IRS doesn’t take kindly to people filling out the wrong form because to their way of thinking they had a dividend instead of a stock cash-in. My brother failed a test at Georgia Tech because he missed one step in a problem that took two hours to complete. When he asked if he could receive partial credit, the profesor said, “If you build a bridge and miss one step, is it going to partially fall down, or is the entire bridge going to collapse? There is no partial credit.”

I think one of the best ways to practice critical thinking skills is to have students take notes - yes, take notes. Kids have to decide what to write down and what not to write down. They have to figure out how to organize this information on paper for the most efficient review process. If that’s not critical thinking, then I don’t know what is (Max Thompson and the Learning Focused Schools gurus will probably have me excommunicated from education for this statement).

By jim dumond

April 4, 2006 09:25 AM | Link to this

Good Morning HST,

If max and the gurus excommunicate you it should only be for forgetting all children don’t learn the same way ;-)

By Robert

April 4, 2006 09:29 AM | Link to this

My “slam” against other bloggers, IMHO, was no “slam.” I simply pointed out that these three bloggers ALWAYS twist whatever topic is at hand to their own agenda and thus rarely add any real depth to the topic at hand.

Patti could post a blog on school toilet paper and you would somehow write a 5 paragraph post on the evils of government schools. Or, on how superior home schooling is. Or, on one of your other personal agenda items. Everyone knows this, including Patti.

This is why I will skip posts by these individuals. Until they can be mature enough to discuss the topic at hand, they simply take up space and waste my time. And, if Patti would delete my post then she would also be diligent enough to delete these post as well for going off topic.

This blog, in case you forgot, was to discuss critical thinking skills - what is it and how to teach it.

High School Teacher - I too was a student at GA Tech and recall experiences like the one you shared about your brother. However, as I teach high school students, I don’t think that any of them at that age are ready for such harsh criticisims or reality. They are still transitioning from the “caregiver” type hands from middle school.

There is a new program, similar to the IB program, called pre-engineering. This high school program may be a place where more critical thinking skills may be taught. I believe that Cobb County has a school with this program, as does a school near Augusta. I think that Gwinnett County is also trying to start up this program in one of its schools, as well.

By jim d

April 4, 2006 10:04 AM | Link to this

Here all along I thought in teaching critical thinking skills the role of a teacher was to challenge students to break out of the habitual thought patterns with which they have been comfortable and begin to think for themselves.

Yet the intolerance displayed by some educators towards anyone not directly involved in education,when they demonstrate these skills, only seems to widen the gap in what many percieve as the us and them syndrome between eduicators and the public.

By Karen Armsby

April 4, 2006 10:12 AM | Link to this

jim d, You are discussing what people think or believe, not how they think things out, how they process information and connect the dots, so to speak, which is critical thinking.

By Robert

April 4, 2006 10:13 AM | Link to this

jim d -

Your last post is a great example of what I am saying. You twist critical thinking into something (to paraphrase) that means challenging conventional thought. Conventional thought, whether you like it or not, has NOTHING to do with critical thinking.

Critical thinking is a skill set used to evaluate a problem and arrive at some solution. If you go back and really read the posts, you may actually become a little more knowledgeable on what critical thinking really is.

Maybe the widenning gap that you mentioned is created more due to your inability to comprehend the topic at hand?

By Robert

April 4, 2006 10:25 AM | Link to this

Critical thinking skills has NOTHING to do with the “fight the power” mentality.

By jim d

April 4, 2006 10:29 AM | Link to this

Gee Robert, you mean its not a disposition to provide evidence in support of one’s conclusions and to request evidence from others before accepting their conclusions?

By Karen Armsby

April 4, 2006 10:32 AM | Link to this

Do we want our kids to just learn how to run the maze? Isn’t it better if they think critically and build a better maze, or figure out how to escape the maze?

By Karen Armsby

April 4, 2006 10:34 AM | Link to this

The greatest danger to our children is not that they will read and study Hitler, the nazi’s, Marxism, communism, etc., and perhaps take a stand supporting them in a debate. The danger is that they will NOT read and NOT be exposed to all of the ideas and people of history. Those who don’t know history are doomed to repeat it. The greatest danger is that we are rearing a generation of complacent sheep who are taught only the right or correct information, who are protected from the evil of the world, and who accept that as the way it is. The greatest danger is that we are rearing children who don’t know how to question, or research or verify, and who believe everything they are told, hear on TV, or taught in school or church (yes, church!).

People who can think critically know how to understand and process new information and compare it against what they already know to be true or false. They know how to separate and substantiate fact from fiction. They know how to question authority and to verify the authenticity of the information. They know how to incorporate new information and put it into a context within their body of knowledge. Most importantly, critical thinkers can make new connections between and among groups of information. They think NEW THOUGHTS, and design new solutions to old problems. Critical thinkers THINK, and all the rest just repeat what they have memorized. Those who do not THINK are doomed to repeat the mistakes of history.

Critical thinking isn’t just some educational concept, it is what we humans were designed to do, to think intelligently and creatively, and to use our brains for more than data storage.

By Robert

April 4, 2006 11:05 AM | Link to this

Thank you Karen - a good general definition of critical thinking.

jim d - another typical post from you. yawn.

By jim d

April 4, 2006 11:13 AM | Link to this

I’m sorry Robert I really thought I was learning something from you, and I do believe I did.

Now if you would take the time to explain to a couple of others the errors in their thinking you could save me further confusion.

Thanks.

http://www.nwrel.org/scpd/sirs/6/cu11.html

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=21264

By Robert

April 4, 2006 11:16 AM | Link to this

Karen -

To add to what you are saying…. critical thought can be applied to a current idea to determine its validity. But as I stated, critical thinking, in and of itself, is not a “fight the power” mentality. After all, what if critical thought is applied and one determines that the “power” is right!

By Robert

April 4, 2006 11:22 AM | Link to this

I’m sorry jim d, it is apparent that no one could ever teach you anything.

By high school teacher

April 4, 2006 11:44 AM | Link to this

Karen, to answer your question, it all depends on whether or not they are stuck in the maze and need to get out :) just kidding.

Actually, both skills are important. How can a student learn how to build a better maze if he has not even been in one or exposed to one? I agree with your statements. You can’t have critical thinking without prior knowledge. One is not more important than the other. Knowledge is pointless if you don’t apply it; critical thinking skills are pointless if you don’t have anything to think about.

By jim d

April 4, 2006 11:50 AM | Link to this

Nor you, my friend :-)

By Teacher2

April 4, 2006 12:09 PM | Link to this

Critical thinking skills are the most difficult ones to teach in our grab-it-and-go society. As many teachers have already stated, the students want us to spoon feed them answers. I refuse to do that in my high school English class. I would rather sit in silence for several minutes waiting on a brave soul to venture a reasoned response rather than give them a pat answer to be regurgitated later. They have to learn to think for themselves, to analyze, criticize, synthesize, and apply their reasoning skills.

We have very spirited debates in my classroom, when absolutely any opinion can be voiced as long as it is not profane and the student can provide well-thought-out evidence for his remarks. Anything can be challenged, and the student is expected to defend his argument. Believe me, the other students can become piranhas, and we definitely have to set ground rules before these debates. I also advise students to check their egos at the door. I only facilitate these sessions, asking leading and pointed questions to direct them to think deeper about their opinions. Many times their “opinions” go no deeper than what they’ve heard at home. I make them dig to see if they truly believe what they’ve been told. It makes for interesting discussions. It is hard to stay objective sometimes, but no matter how many times the students ask my personal opinion on a subject, I refuse to answer. It is the only way I can keep them from feeding me what they think I want to hear. It is in these give-and-take sessions that my students seem to sharpen their critical thinking skills the most. The students who do not like my class say it is because I “make them think too much.” I think that is high praise.

And, Leia, I also give them Sudoku puzzles, and I have logic puzzles available. Some of my students have questioned the use of “math” puzzles in an English class, but I believe anything that sharpens their minds makes them better English students.

By high school teacher

April 4, 2006 12:14 PM | Link to this

Teacher 2,

I also give Sudoku puzzles in English - but only because I am addicted to them. :) JK. Perhaps we can make students write the steps they took to determine proper number placement…

By Kage

April 4, 2006 01:34 PM | Link to this

In an attempt to address the original topic…

It might be helpful to see an example of what critical thinking looks like at different age levels.

I teach third grade and try to foster critical thinking skills through various methods. One approach I take is to have students defend their answers. For example, last week students were reviewing for the CRCT by solving puzzles on a hundreds board (grid with the numbers 1 - 100). Another teacher and I had decided to ability group for the day - something we never do - to ensure that they received the appropriate enrichment/review prior to the CRCT.

They had to color in numbers according to specific clues. One clue read “Color 7+20, 7+40, and 7+60 green.” Not all the clues were this simple (I always feel the need to pre-defend myself on this blog.) Anyway, one table was in a heated debate about what to color in. I listened in on their discussion. One child had it right (to my way of thinking). She had colored in 27, 47, and 67. Two other children had colored in 100 and 41. I asked each child to explain his/her answer. The first child said that she thought that because there were commas and the word ‘and’, that each sum should be colored separately. The other students defended their answer by saying that ‘and’ meant add it all together. When the sum of 141 wasn’t there, they broke their answer down and colored in 100 and 41 because that was equal.

As a teacher, I saw this discussion as very significant. My students are comfortable defending their answers. This is the payoff for having had them do this all year long. They think about whether or not their answers are reasonable and they can explain their rationales to others. This is one result of teaching critical thinking skills.

There is not always one correct answer. Had I not asked for an explanation, then I probably would have just marked the latter group wrong. I was assessing students’ number sense that day. The ‘wrong’ answer of 100 and 41 provided me with more evidence of sound number sense than the ‘right’ answer did.

By luvs2teach

April 4, 2006 04:58 PM | Link to this

HST - having suffered through some LFS bologna sandwiches, I agree - kids are used to being spoon fed becuase of stuff like that!

By luvs2teach

April 4, 2006 05:04 PM | Link to this

Food for thought…

One of the lines on the controversial Cobb County sticker said that evolution should be “approached with an open mind, studied carefully, and critically considered.”

By Karen Armsby

April 4, 2006 07:41 PM | Link to this

Robert, you are correct, Critical Thinking is not ‘fight the power’ mentality. Rather it is empowering. Knowledge is power, and the more you know, the more you can apply critical thinking skills, then the farther ahead you will get in life with your goals. You can anticipate and solve problems, plan for the future and even in the event of failure, learn from the mistakes and be stronger going forward. Critical thinking empowers self reliance and self responsibility.

By Karen Armsby

April 4, 2006 07:42 PM | Link to this

Kage, Your math example was a perfect example of the benefits of critical thinking, the unexpected can always be expected to happen, and knowing how to explain what happened is the critical element. Chaos theory fits in nicely, too.

By Karen Armsby

April 4, 2006 07:43 PM | Link to this

high school teacher, You are so correct, we need a good base of knowledge to apply our critical thinking skills. And those with good critical thinking skills always learn more and learn faster, because their minds are trained to process the information efficiently and with goal oriented results.

By Karen Armsby

April 4, 2006 07:49 PM | Link to this

Robert, You desparately wanted to ignore jim d, but you failed today, and that’s OK, I had a day where Mr. Liberty pushed me over the edge. jim d knows how to google and parrot, but hasn’t caught on yet to connecting the dots. He thinks there is always a hidden agenda that must be outed!

By Karen Armsby

April 4, 2006 07:50 PM | Link to this

luv2teach, Evolution means many things to many people and often the creationists think only in terms that evolution rejects God. I accept evolution as a process revealing God’s creation, much like critical thinking, which explains the body of knowledge we see around us. The real basis for evolution is sexual selection, and not survival of the fittest, but survival of the generalist whose gene pool is plastic enough to adapt to changing conditions

By Lee

April 4, 2006 08:05 PM | Link to this

Critical thinking skills. Sounds good - until a student turns in a history paper that doesn’t adhere to the “Politically Correct” version commonly taught in schools nowadays. Happened to one of my neighbors kids.

Kid did a paper on the Civil War. Teacher didn’t like his conclusion, gave him a failing grade. I read the paper and thought it was well done. Only reason teacher could give was “that’s not the way it happened.”

Teachers can be so closed minded sometimes. Ain’t that right Robert?

(Cheap shot. Sorry. Couldn’t resist stirring the pot.)

By Karen Armsby

April 4, 2006 08:48 PM | Link to this

Lee, Did the student or his parent ask for an appt with the teacher to discuss and explain his position on the paper? From the limited information you provided it doesn’t appear that this incident has anything to do with critical thinking, as you said it was about political correctness. We are discussing the how (process) of thinking, not the what (subject matter).

By jim d

April 5, 2006 09:32 AM | Link to this

Karen,

“there is always a hidden agenda that must be outed”??

No not always but I have found there is often an agenda that people don’t advertise, not hidden just kind of laying under the surface.

What I really find fascinating on these blogs is some of the educators sense of us and them and their distain for anyone questioning their authority. Do I have a bit of fun with that and drive a few people nuts? Well yeah, I’m quilty, but wouldn’t these blogs be boring if everyone agreed and what would we learn?

By Karen Armsby

April 5, 2006 09:41 AM | Link to this

jim d, Gotcha : ) You were pretty sarcastic with Robert and appeared to be intentionally obfuscating the points made. Verbal sparring is fun in these blogs, but IMHO your comments weren’t funny or relevant yesterday.

By jim d

April 5, 2006 10:10 AM | Link to this

Perhaps, but I find it difficult at best to let one off the hook when they become beligerent and start attacking personally.;-) And I really did present a valid point regarding differences between magnets and regular schools invalidating a real comparision between the two that no one else even wanted to discuss. Every one just wanted to complain about how bad our middle schools are. Personally I don’t think they’re all that bad. Could they be improved upon? Absolutely. But are they the worst? I don’t think so.

By luvs2teach

April 5, 2006 10:47 AM | Link to this

Karen - I threw the evolution sticker comment out because I thought it was ironic, and Robert’s comment reminded me of it. Didn’t mean to start a debate about evolution.

Too many people think “critical thinking” means “criticizing other’s thoughts.”

To me, critical thinking is the ability to look at a problem (math, scientific, setting the clock on your VCR, troubleshooting your crashed computer - you name it), and come up with solutions, try them in a logical order, retry if necessary - hmm, sounds suspiciously like the “scientific method” to me.

To me, questioning authority isn’t necessarily critical thinking, unless you are coming up with alternate suggestions, lines of thought, “theories” if you will. Otherwise, it’s just questioning authority - sometimes needed, but not the same thing.

JMHO.

By luvs2teach

April 5, 2006 10:51 AM | Link to this

jim d - your point about the apples to orange comparision of a magnet school to a regular school WAS valid, and it reminded me that I should mention the advanced classes at my middle school ARE excellent. Most parents who have children in those classes are very happy with the school, and with good reason.

By luvs2teach

April 5, 2006 10:58 AM | Link to this

jim d - strangely, I find that some parents (or non-educators) also send off vibes of “us and them” - reread Lee’s post, for example (not picking on you, Lee, but you’re not a fan, it seems to me - perhaps with reason, but not a fan, just the same).

I try to approach the questions from a perspective of a both a teacher AND a parent - and I actually have more experience as “the parent of a student” than a “teacher.”

When I teach and communicate with my students, I try to be the type of teacher I would want my own children to have. When I talk to parents, I try to be the type of teacher I always enjoyed talking to and working with - I am very much a “honey trumps vinegar” type of person, and in almost every instance it has worked - both as a parent AND a teachr (helps with customer service, too). Coming in adversarily doesn’t help anyone, no matter which adult side of the table you sit on.

By Karen Armsby

April 5, 2006 11:02 AM | Link to this

luvs2teach, Re: evolution comment I know, and I was stirring the pot : ). I agree with you on what critical thinking is. By ‘questioning authority’ I meant that one looks to the source of the information and decides if the source (the authority) is valid or not, and if the source has substantial facts supporting it, or at the other end of the spectrum is merely a source of opinion, speculation and conjecture. In the process of critical thinking we constantly compare incoming information with what we know to be true or false, and consider the source of the information and its reliability and verifiability (is that a word?). I used the word authority to mean source. It is a term of art in another discipline.

By jim d

April 5, 2006 11:11 AM | Link to this

L2T,

Agreed.

That is the major problem with these blogs. You’re not face to face and words can be read with emphasis where the reader places it and in the tone they percieve it. Which really can lead to a break down in communication.

Personally I support teachers about 97% of the time, the other 3% is reserved for teachers that chose the wrong profession.

By jim d

April 5, 2006 11:16 AM | Link to this

Karen,

Can we agree then that critical thought is merely the ability to “reason”? or am I still missing it?

By Karen Armsby

April 5, 2006 11:27 AM | Link to this

jim d, I think the essence of these blogs is to define, explain and refine the issues from the bloggers many different perspectives and experiences. We are not all teachers, so a lot of us do not know the teacher terms of art. And the education community sometimes doesn’t know where our terms come from. But we have an orderly (for the most part) give and take of offering information and opinions, defending our points of view, and sometimes we agree and sometimes not. But all in all I think the “problem” you see in the blog is the blog’s raison d’etre. And the blog is an excellent exercise in critical thinking!

The blog problem I see is personal attacks, via sarcasm and name-calling.

By Karen Armsby

April 5, 2006 11:31 AM | Link to this

jim d, Yes, put simply it is the ability to reason. But critical thinking is much more. It is about the whole process of reasoning, which can and should be taught!

By Nikole

April 5, 2006 11:42 AM | Link to this

Kage-That is such a great example, but it also shows us the reason why critical thinking is scarce. On standardized tests, you need the best, right answer and can’t defend yourself, another downside to testing.

By JEff

April 5, 2006 12:13 PM | Link to this

So I’m working on a poster for my room which will contain the following quote from Jaime Escalante in Stand and Deliver: “There will be no free rides, no excuses. You already have two strikes against you: your name and your complexion. Because of those two strikes, there are some people in this world who will assume that you know less than you do. *Math is the great equalizer… When you go for a job, the person giving you that job will not want to hear your problems; ergo, neither do I. You’re going to work harder here than you’ve ever worked anywhere else. And the only thing I ask from you is ganas. Desire.*

By WFC

April 6, 2006 09:21 AM | Link to this

I’ve taught history for thirty years (including many AP classes and have made one rather startling discovery: it is impossible for a student to do significant critical thinking in history without a thorough grounding in “the facts.” Without this factual foundation, what passes for “critical thinking” is merely unsubstantiated opinion and breezy generalities. Thinking “outside the box” first require knowing what the box is!

By Lee

April 7, 2006 11:12 AM | Link to this

WFC, your post it is impossible for a student to do significant critical thinking in history without a thorough grounding in “the facts.” brings up an interesting point. That is, what are the facts?

Have you ever had first hand knowledge of an item or event and then see a newspaper article on that event? Did the article agree with your interpretation or were there discrepancies? A hundred years from now, a historian will read that article and cite it as the truth when in reality, it is only someones interpretation or perception of a sequence of events in a given point in time subject to that individuals own biases and prejudices.

The key to history is not what happened, but why.