Get Schooled

By Lee

March 31, 2006 08:27 AM | Link to this

Hey teacher, it’s call SPRING BREAK for a reason. I also think it ironic for this teacher to go on vacation over spring break, but expects her students to work on a project during this time.

It would really tick me off to go on a family vacation over break and to have my child worried about getting a project done. Also, since this project requires access to a computer and PowerPoint, what about those students who don’t have these resources at home.

Common sense people… Use it!!

By jim d

March 31, 2006 08:51 AM | Link to this

Gee Lee,

You mean parents shouldn’t have to run out and buy a computer for several hundred dollars, add a power point program for another $150 and cancel their plans for spring break just because a teacher wants a 3 week break?

Yes 3 weeks maybe 4—read between the lines. She gives nearly the entire week before break as computer lab, takes a week off and returns to having students doing presentations.

It all sounds pretty reasonable to me for a teacher that is madly in love and still has her head in the clouds.

By Leia

March 31, 2006 08:55 AM | Link to this

I would suggest that the parent not bring up the teacher’s personal business unless she wants the same thing done to her. It unnerves me when I hear parent tell a pregnant teacher, “I know you are stressed out because you’re pregnant, but, …..”. Don’t use the fact that the teacher is getting married in your “argument” against Spring Break assignments.

Now, back to the real topic - I hardly ever assign work over the break because I know it won’t get done! I do teach high-schoolers, and there are times when I wish I could give them a project to work on, but, it’s just not feasible.

It is very rare that I come across a student who doesn’t have access to a computer or Power Point. When I do, I tell them that the public library has free access to all of these resources.

Oh, and I DO work during the break! Most teachers are testing this week, and those exams are not going to grade themselves!

By C.R.H.

March 31, 2006 08:57 AM | Link to this

Lee, please read the WHOLE STORY, the kids were given several hours in school to work on the project. I am also guessing that the project is not due on Monday upon their return. Even if it is, there are these places called public libraries where people can access computers. I am going out of town to visit family; however, I am returning early to finish up paperwork on MY VACATION! It won’t hurt kids to have something to do for homework over the break as long as it isn’t too time consuming.

By jim d

March 31, 2006 09:09 AM | Link to this

Leia and CRH,

I gotta go with Lee on this one. I could just see myself taking a laptop along on a vacation or having to drag my child off a Florida Beach to go to a libray while on vacation. Yeah Right—-like thats going to happen.

By science teacher

March 31, 2006 09:14 AM | Link to this

Teachers can’t win on this one. I worked very hard to get both of my chemistry classes finished with the chapter and tested before break. Due to a half day in my system today, my physics class didn’t get to their test. They just weren’t ready yesterday, and they won’t meet today. I gave them a take-home test for over the break.

Today I check my e-mail to find at least 10 e-mails. Mostly from parents wanting to know what their children could do over the break in chemistry. They didn’t want their child to sit at home for the week with nothing to do. However, there was one complaining that I had given her child a take-home test to do over the break. You can’t please them all.

By Leia

March 31, 2006 09:14 AM | Link to this

jim d - That really doesn’t surprise me! Have a good day!

FYI - I couldn’t imagine NOT taking my laptop!

By jim d

March 31, 2006 09:17 AM | Link to this

Can a teacher really do that?

Change requirements for just a couple of students on a project without making it an across the board change for every student?

By jim d

March 31, 2006 09:21 AM | Link to this

Leia, perhaps the difference is that when I take a break I have other people to fill the gap. If I carry my lap top, I might as well be here at work, my cell phone’s bad enough.

You have a great day and break too.

By Jeff

March 31, 2006 09:23 AM | Link to this

My admin bans bwork over the break. However, I’m staring at an EOCT roughly a month after they return, and I’m struggling to get them ready (Geometry class). Therefore, today is a standard lecture day. I’ve got a movie playing, and they’ve got the notes with a class assignment, plus a homework assignment. Got around admin easily enough though: The hw isn’t officially due until the TUES that the students return, so they can’t say they HAD to do it over the break.

By jim d

March 31, 2006 09:35 AM | Link to this

Jeff,

I see a couple of things here. HW really doesn’t bother me but according to the above this is a project.

Teachers in systems like GCPS are permitted to make a project count up to something like 15%?? of a final grade. It would appear to me that assigning something like this to be done when odds are kids won’t do it is just setting them up for failure and would ultimately reflect poorly on the teacher. Perhaps she hasn’t thought that through.

I think what bothers me the most about this issue is that the teacher appears to be willing to punish a few students for having an innitive to get it done early.

By Lee

March 31, 2006 09:47 AM | Link to this

Jim D, I’ve seen those people on vacation. Sitting by the pool working on their laptops, Blackberries, talking business on the cell phone. They didn’t look like they were having much ‘fun’ on vacation. If they get too close, I usually try to give them a big ol’ cannonball…. lol

CRH, public libraries - get real. Believe it or not, not all public libraries have PowerPoint loaded on their computers.

You know, my perception from reading these Blogs is that many teachers think they “own” my child 24 hours a day. News flash, you don’t.

By Jeff

March 31, 2006 09:53 AM | Link to this

Jim,

I always laugh at the people that claim a student’s poor work looks bad on a teacher. My kids try to use that same argument. All the argument does is make an excuse for the student not owning up to his or her work.

I’m not saying teachers never make mistakes… a first year that claims that is either an idiot or insane. HOWEVER, from what I see everyday, the following is true: If a kid sits there, pays attention, takes the notes, and does the homework, that student generally does decently. The only ones that have issues - failing grades - are the ones that actively try to fail my class. (IOW: They are disruptive, deon’t do the homework, refuse to take notes, that sort of thing.)

No excuses. You are responsbile for your own actions. Once we go back to that, and HOLD STUDENTS TO THAT, then MAYBE the “student are performing bad, must be the teacher” argument will START to hold some water.

By teach overseas

March 31, 2006 09:59 AM | Link to this

I don’t think the teacher REALLY meant that the students would be doing extra work. It sounds like a veiled threat so your kids don’t come to her the next day with “I’m finished- what do I do now?” or “I’m finished, can I play on the computer?” (Of course you think your children would never do such things) Just relax a little and see how things pan out. You don’t have to rush in and complain about every little percieved slight or injustice.

Jim d- if you think that the teacher is getting a week off by having her kids work on the computer- you have obviously never supervised 30+ teenagers in the computer lab

Science teacher has it right. You can’t win on this one. Parents are going to be unhappy think they should complain about whatever you do.

Patti- you should not bring up your knowledge about the teachers personal plans in your complaint- it’s none of your business. Would you say to any other professional- I know you have plans for the holiday but… Much to the suprise of many, teachers have personal lives and have every right to get married- go on vacation or do what ever with consulting with you or your children.

Personally, I don’t give homework over holidays with the announcement that I won’t be doing any grading over the holiday either so I don’t want to hear complaints about what is not handed back right. And I ignore email and phone complaints or requests for work over the holiday.

By jim d

March 31, 2006 10:04 AM | Link to this

Thats not exactly what I said Jeff.

Teachers today are judged on how their students perform though and giving them something you know they aren’t going to do could easily come back to haunt you. Thats all I was saying. I was in no way implying that the teacher was failing only thst the appearance could be there and thats not a good thing for a teacher.

By dan

March 31, 2006 10:08 AM | Link to this

Lee,

Teachers think they own your child 24 hours a day? A pretty broad statement. I highly doubt that. I personally think that the above teacher gave them plenty of thim to get it done during class time and she used the “It will be homework over spring break” thing to motivate them to work during class. I think that in some cases parents hear only one side of the story from their kids and then jump to conclusions about things without asking. Isn’t my explanation just as plausable in this case.

By jim d

March 31, 2006 10:17 AM | Link to this

Teaches overseas.

I don’t believe it was Patti’s complaint. But I do understand why a parent might feel this is relevant.

Dan indeed you explanation is plausable. However, that would mean the teacher lied and I’d never go so far as to say a teacher would lie to her students.

By dan

March 31, 2006 10:22 AM | Link to this

What about the kids not here today at school because their parents decided to leave for Spring Break a day early. I am staring at a half empty room right now. The students here are taking a test so I don’t have to make them study over spring break. However, once these kids all come back from their extended sping break they will all want to stay after school and make up the tests on my time. Isn’t there a double standard here. When they do come back and have to take the test do you think they will do as well not having seen the test material for a week. Will I be judged from their results?

By dan

March 31, 2006 10:25 AM | Link to this

Jim, I believe the word is motivated. How did she lie if she actually made it homework. I think this dicussion would be better if we knew how many kids got the assignment done and how many had it for homework.

By jim d

March 31, 2006 10:28 AM | Link to this

Unfortunately yes Dan, this will reflect on you. Not rightly, but it will.

By Patti Ghezzi

March 31, 2006 10:31 AM | Link to this

Teach Overseas, I think you’re right, it’s not central to the issue of whether teachers should assign significant work over spring break. A parent submitted the story and I posted it as I often do, but I could have deleted that part.

Patti

By Veteran

March 31, 2006 10:37 AM | Link to this

I’m with Dan. I, too, am giving a test today on a novel unit we have been working on for three weeks. I wanted to finish it before the break. My room, though, is 1/2 full. Whose fault will it be when the rest of the seniors come back, supposedly ready to “make up” the test and perform poorly? What about the fact that I will have to stay late for five afternoons to accommodate their schedules for the make up tests? And, I have to make up a different test - more time. How about the parents, who agreed to the trip to Panama City, paid the deposit, signed the kids into the rooms, and then leave them on their own? And you worry about whether we give homework over the break? Priorities, priorities - get a grip. And if you don’t believe me about the horrors of spring break in Florida, come be a fly on my wall in a week. I will hear about drunken binges, lost innocence, and much more.

By Lee

March 31, 2006 10:38 AM | Link to this

Dan, you make a valid point. Maybe 4 hours computer lab time was adequate and we are jumping to conclusions without knowing the scope of the assignment.

Jeff, you talked about teacher accountability. About a week ago, didn’t you make a post where you gave a test and the highest grade was a 55? In that scenario, I would say that the teacher is primarily accountable. Either you didn’t adequately prepare the students or the test was not representative of the work assigned.

By Susie

March 31, 2006 10:48 AM | Link to this

Ok, I don’t like homework over school breaks, but even that aside, what bothers me about this is that because this kid was proactive and worked hard early on, rather than waiting till the last minute, and doing a half-a*******ed job on it, she’s threatening to give them more work?

Real good way to motivate kids to work hard and work ahead. Maybe those kids who wait till the last minute know what they are doing after all.

I don’t think any of my kids have ever had homework over spring break, and think the only “homework” my kids have ever been assigned over Christmas break was to read every day. Nothing in particular, just spend some time reading something, every day.

By teacher/mom

March 31, 2006 10:53 AM | Link to this

OFF TOPIC BUT NEED HELP: My daughter came home with a take home test last night but forgot her notebook with the information to get the answers. We could not get back to the school becasue she did not tell me until after 6pm. She was doing other homework before then. How much help should I have given her -if any. She is in 8th grade and in an A/B student. She has a low B in this class right now.

By teach overseas

March 31, 2006 10:58 AM | Link to this

Patti-

I see after looking more closely, that you submitted anothers query- sorry- didn’t mean to attack the messanger.

Jim D- you think that parents would find it relevant- please explain how this teachers personal business is any of their concern. Perhaps they could understand that for a few monents, the teachers personal life is taking front stage for her. They could explain to their children that this happens sometimes in life and yes, while it might not be fair per se, life is not fair and it is a valuable life skill to learn to deal with it.

By Jeff

March 31, 2006 11:01 AM | Link to this

Lee,

With that one, I was wrong - one one count ONLY. I didn’t give them enough time. I had used average times etc but had not actually timed myself. They finished it yesterday and I’ll be grading - you guessed it- over the break.

HOWEVER, even the length of the test does not explain their grades. That test was LITERALLY the FIFTH TIME they’d seen those questions. And THAT points to lack of STUDENT accountability, not teacher.

By David200

March 31, 2006 11:06 AM | Link to this

Lee, drawing conclusions about a teacher’s test writing skills or how well a teacher taught by comparing students’ grades in one class on one test is improper. You made an assumption that Jeff’s class was a homogeneous representation of our nation’s population. That might not be true. Jeff’s class could be extraordinarily lazy and did not want to learn the material. I have this discussion over and over. A teacher should not be held responsible for the failure of their students to learn material. Example 1: brand new teacher assigned to teach high SES kids, all with interests in attending Ivy League schools, gives out their text books at the start of the semester. The teacher then tells the students the book comes with a testing program and all tests will be generated by the software. The teacher then drools on themselves for a week and gives a test on Friday in which the average grade is 95. Example 2: teacher with 12 years of experience bounces around the room of kids of low SES showing the incredible beauty of physics for a week. The teacher then designs a test that covers the material exactly as it was presented, and the students average a grade of 45 because most of them slept through the presentations.

People are only accountable for their own actions. If the student fails my class and also fails the End of Course Tests, I have performed my job properly. If the student passes my class and passes the End of Course Test, I have performed my job properly. Come after me and my peers when the other two possibilities occur.

By Leia

March 31, 2006 11:20 AM | Link to this

Why stop at not assigning homework/projects over the break? How do you feel about assigning homework over the weekend? Is this too an infringement of their time? Will this too become an argument of us thinking that “we own your children 24 hours a day”?

We can’t win. Too much homework, not enough homework, make everyone do the same thing, individualize the lessons for the student, don’t give enrichment work to those who finish early….

TGIF!!!!

By Lee

March 31, 2006 11:22 AM | Link to this

Jeff, I’m not trying to start an argument, but if it’s the 5th time seeing the questions and they still don’t get it, then whose job is it to provide them with the level of instruction so that they do “get it?”

If only a couple of students fail, then that’s a normal distribution. If the whole class fails, that’s an anomoly and the responsibility falls primarily on the teachers shoulders.

By Lee

March 31, 2006 11:30 AM | Link to this

David200 - “A teacher should not be held responsible for the failure of their students to learn material.”

Oh my God….

That thumping sound you hear is me banging my head on the computer monitor.

By Terri

March 31, 2006 11:39 AM | Link to this

this text will be italicI will hear about drunken binges, lost innocence, and much more.

Well my daughter hears that everyday at school so whats the difference? Really this place compared to the Florida we moved from is much worse with teenage sex and drinking and most important ignorance and apathy. Some teachers were actually intelligent and gave tests yesterday. I mean you know 1/2 your class isn’t going to be there - think about it instead of having such a power trip

By dan

March 31, 2006 11:40 AM | Link to this

Thanks Leia, you said it better than I can.

By Jeff

March 31, 2006 11:40 AM | Link to this

Lee,

I have HIGH expectations of these kids. They expect to breeze through HS, and I demand that they study. They can get with the program - and thus truly be preparing themselves for college-level work - or they can fail my class. Their choice.

By Jeff

March 31, 2006 11:45 AM | Link to this

Lee,

Toa POINT, I will agree with your comment in regards to David200. Again though, the STUDENT is ultimately responsible for their learning. I’ve told my kids several times: Your grade is up to you. I will be more than happy to work with you before or after school, but during class I am responsible to attempting to teach 30 kids. And you better believe that in class if I have to sacrifice the one for the sake of the many, I’ll do it in a heartbeat.

By dan

March 31, 2006 11:48 AM | Link to this

Terri, I just leaned back in my chair and laughed. Sorry. Powertrip. I am laughing again. It’s called teaching every moment and planning for the kids to be there every moment. It’s called have taking my job seriously and in return have the respect of parents enough to make sure that if school is scheduled for a day then they will respect me enough to make sure thier kids are there because what I have to teach is important everyday. Not just when it doesn’t interfer with their plans. Your right, I should just plug a movie in today and pop some popcorn. I don’t know what I was thinking.

By Jeff

March 31, 2006 11:53 AM | Link to this

Dan,

I have an old math class stand by - Stand and Deliver - in case the test I’m giving is too short. Got SEVERAL students out today, and I have a well known policy that if you’re out on test day FOR ANY REASON, you get a zero on the test. I broadcast my test days at LEAST a week in advance and don’t accept any excuses for missing it.

By jim d

March 31, 2006 12:03 PM | Link to this

Jeff obviously doesn’t work in Gwinnett. Teachers have been fired for less.

By Veteran

March 31, 2006 12:05 PM | Link to this

Dan - Thanks - couldn’t have said it better myself. I was stunned into silence. Now I understand so much more about the attitudes my seniors bring into my classroom. They are just mouthing the garbage they hear at home. Power trip? Nope - just blindsided a couple of weeks ago with being told I would proctor the GHSGT for 4 days instead of teach my classes, and then trying to catch back up so my kids would not have homework over the break. And, FYI, I don’t see my kids but every other day on the alternate day block we suffer under. Silly me… I laughed, too! But next time, I WILL save the test for later and WILL NOT adjust the grades because they forgot the hardest novel we tackle all year - and just before the AP test, too!

One more thought - no one has mentioned that teachers are not paid by the month, nor by the year; our contracts actually state a specific number of days we are to work. So, when we grade or plan on the weekends, it’s because we love our kids and our jobs. When we grade essays on holidays, like Spring Break, it’s because, again, we love our kids and want them to learn. To have to deal with parents who think it is fine to start Spring Break a day early “just because … ” is disheartening.

By jim d

March 31, 2006 12:07 PM | Link to this

I’m fascinated with this conversation of teacher accountability or non.

Students are held accountable, States are being held accountable, Schools and even school systems are being held accountable, yet teachers don’t think it’s fair that they be held accountable. Fascinating!

By Carrie

March 31, 2006 12:10 PM | Link to this

Jeff - what if the student was in the hospital? Could they make it up then or just accept a zero?

By jim d

March 31, 2006 12:15 PM | Link to this

Dan lets go back to the issue of if this was a motivational move on the part of the teacher. Had it been, why would she ostrize the two students that became motivated? No I think not.

Teach overseas; I did NOT say parents WOULD find it relevant. What I said was I understand they MIGHT Quite a difference there wouldn’t you say?

By Lee

March 31, 2006 12:17 PM | Link to this

Jeff, its good that you have high expectations of your students. I expect no less.

You’re the one who stated that you gave a test and the highest grade was a 55. I’m merely saying in that scenario, the burden of responsibilty falls on the teacher to make sure they have provided the correct level of instruction. I don’t think you have a entire class of slackers.

Leia, we’ve blogged the homework topic repeatedly. I will say that when my daughter was younger, she had a teacher who was notorious for massive amounts of homework. My daughter averaged about 3 hours per night. There was an occasion where our church was having revival one week and we missed a couple of nights because of homework. We, along with other parents, complained to this teacher and the principal and were basically told, “tough sh++.” Ergo, my comment about some teachers thinking they own my child 24 hours per day. They imposed their will on the whole family.

By Teachin'

March 31, 2006 12:19 PM | Link to this

I am all for teacher accountability (and I am a teacher), but it’s like the old saying goes… you can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make it drink. I can come in early, stay late, make concessions for every single student, keep up astounding parental contact, you name it. Thing is, if the student and/or parent doesn’t give a flip (until of course, it’s time to repeat a grade, or better yet, when the kid gets suspended and mom/dad has to find somewhere to put them during the day), there is little I can do. My fault? I think not.

By Leia

March 31, 2006 12:19 PM | Link to this

jim d - I believe that I’m accountable to a certain degree. I am accountable to use what methods I can to disseminate the material to the students, provide fair and reasonable assessment and to accurately record grades.

What exactly are the parents accountable for? If you give me 28 sleepy, hungry, high on wee teenagers to teach math to at 7:20 in the morning - what (realistically) am I expected to do - perform miracles?

By Atlanta Teacher

March 31, 2006 12:20 PM | Link to this

Jeff— out of curiousity, do students receive a zero on tests if they miss class for religious services or medical emergencies? If so, I could see some potential problem emerge, if they haven’t already.

I’m not assigning work over Spring Break; however, my students are responsible for keeping up with their studies, as I’ve scheduled major assessments the week they return from break.

By Jeff

March 31, 2006 12:22 PM | Link to this

Carrie,

Two tests have MUCH more powerful than all the others: the midterm and final. If they miss a chpater test, the appropriate major test simply replaces it with the appropriate scale. (For example, if they make a 70% on the material relating to chapter 8 on the midterm, yet they madea 25% on the chapter 8 test, the midterm 70 replaces the earlier 25.)

By Leia

March 31, 2006 12:26 PM | Link to this

** should say “high on weed” sorry!

By jim d

March 31, 2006 12:26 PM | Link to this

I think maybe, just maybe a few posters here have forgotten what it was like to have senioritis. This is not anything new, its been going on since the beginning of time. I’m not saying ignore the problem, but lets explore the root of it. Seniors are all but assured of graduation when they start their senior year if they have passed the georgia graduation test. What possible motive could exist in a 17 year olds mind to make them hump all the way through their senior year? I can’t think of one.

By jim d

March 31, 2006 12:32 PM | Link to this

Leia,

“What exactly are the parents accountable for?”

Well We get stuck with them after graduation if they don’t go to college or get a job because they were too stupid to learn when given the opportunity.

OH YEAH, we’re held accountable.

By Leia

March 31, 2006 12:32 PM | Link to this

jim d says -

What possible motive could exist in a 17 year olds mind to make them hump all the way through their senior year? I can’t think of one.

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is the reason why the students act the way they do! They’ve got parents at home like this!

By dan

March 31, 2006 12:34 PM | Link to this

Does anybody know the exact date when it started to be Us versus THEM with respect to parents and teachers? What happened? I have one goal when I come to work and that is to teach. I will talk to any parent anytime but I don’t think I should walk into a parent teacher conference thinking that I am going to have to defend myself. That is exactly the feeling I had the last two conferences. I just wonder what happened and how can it be fixed?

By Jeff

March 31, 2006 12:35 PM | Link to this

Teachin and Leia,

AMEN. ‘Nuff said.

By Atlanta Teacher

March 31, 2006 12:36 PM | Link to this

Jeff— interesting structure of your test policy— but what if a student misses the midterm for a religious holiday or a medical emergency? Does that mean they receive a 0 on the midterm and can replace it with the final exam? That’s a little harsh, if so, as a significant portion of their grade is now dependent on the final.

By jim d

March 31, 2006 12:41 PM | Link to this

Fortunately Leia a few do have parents like this at home Parents that understand these kids are not thinking clearly and we make every effort to keep them thinking. the point is that 17 year olds think they are invincible and are living in the here and now. Parents like us keep them thinking of their future and moving in the right direction. But to do that one first must understand their physcy. Setting here B*hin about it accomplishes little.

By Leia

March 31, 2006 12:49 PM | Link to this

jim d - I’m not trying to be mean, but, what is “physcy”? Perhaps if you wrote it phonetically, I’ll understand what you’re trying to spell.

By jim d

March 31, 2006 12:52 PM | Link to this

My bad, lets just put it this way.

Ya gotta know whats goin on inside them pea pickin little minds.

By Lee

March 31, 2006 12:54 PM | Link to this

What am I, a parent, responsible for?

There. Does that clear things up for you?

By Leia

March 31, 2006 12:57 PM | Link to this

jim d - Oh, ok! I got you! I thought your post said that you couldn’t think of a reason for them to stay in school!

FYI - psyche!

By dan

March 31, 2006 01:03 PM | Link to this

Jim, thanks now I have an excuse for when I have toexplain why I have failures in my classes. I would be on the unemployment line if I suggested the reason why I have failures is because the 17 year olds I teach feel invincible or are just not thinking clearly.

By jim d

March 31, 2006 01:03 PM | Link to this

I see, no what I meant was that I couldn’t think of a reason that would be in the mind of a 17 year old (since they are all brain dead at that age)

I could have been a bit clearer.

By Nikole

March 31, 2006 01:05 PM | Link to this

Lee, is it safe to say that if a private school gives your child homework on spring break, she will be pulled from there as well? I think with public school teachers, you always doing too much or not enough, and that gets to be frustrating.

By another teacher

March 31, 2006 01:06 PM | Link to this

I’ll gladly be held accountable for preparing lessons that cover the material, for making myself available for students outside of class, for maintaining order in the room, for making good use of class time, etc, but I will not make myself accountable for things that are the student’s responsibility.

For example, right before I gave a test yesterday some students said, “we don’t know how to do it.” I reminded them that I had stayed after Tues for extra help and only one student came. Their comments were, “we have lives.” I gave out the list of test days in August. If students find themselves falling behind, they have a responsibility to seek out addtional help.

By Nikole

March 31, 2006 01:08 PM | Link to this

OFF TOPIC Does anyone know what the requirements are for being an early intervention teacher in an elementary school? Is it the same as a special education teacher’s degree?

By jim d

March 31, 2006 01:11 PM | Link to this

Unemploment line? For telling the truth?

Man, I’d be seeking new employment every day.

By jim d

March 31, 2006 01:15 PM | Link to this

Another teach,

Gladly or otherwise, NCLB will hold you accountable. We need to all get this monkey off our backs.

By hs sped

March 31, 2006 01:15 PM | Link to this

I’m taking work home over the break (as usual), and I remember having assignments due after spring break while I was in college. The semester break? No. Spring break? Yes. What’s the big deal?

By dan

March 31, 2006 01:35 PM | Link to this

The original blog is just another example of how we are babying our children. Poor Billy, his teacher told him that she would give him more work. Oh, and she told little Billy that he may have homework on his spring break. Times have changed and if anybody thinks that they have changed for the better then they are dead wrong.

By teach overseas

March 31, 2006 01:39 PM | Link to this

OK Jim D

Back to the original disucssion- what MIGHT a parent find relevant to know about a teachers personal life- not that most of us have one during the school year.

By oldteacher

March 31, 2006 01:46 PM | Link to this

The only way that students and parents know our personal business is if we share it with them. My guess is that this teacher discussed her upcoming wedding with her students. When she does that during class time, it becomes the business of the students and the parents.

Do I assign homework over Spring Break? NO! I teach reading so I just suggest that they make sure they have a book to read over the break just in case.

Can a teacher modify and assignment for a students (in this case make it harder)? Well, she can, but if it were my child and she did this to her because she was ahead of the rest of the class, I would see the teacher in the principal’s office.

By jim d

March 31, 2006 01:56 PM | Link to this

Well a parent Might feel it’s relevant since the teacher has made it public knowledge, Or at least it would appear so.

A parent Might find a teachers “personal life” relevant in other areas as well. You know little things like being arrested.

Unfortunately for teachers when one takes a publicly paid job they give up many of there rights to privacy.

The publics right to know should always trump privacy when in a public position. And yes Teachers fall into this category in that they are being paid with tax dollars.

You may not like it and for that I’m Sorry But thats just the way it is.

You want a totally private life? get a private job.

By Nikole

March 31, 2006 01:56 PM | Link to this

I always thought that you were supposed to modify assignments for students that finish too quickly, enrichment, right?

By teach overseas

March 31, 2006 01:58 PM | Link to this

Old teacher-

If your children were so smart/hardworking as to finish the project early, would that not show that the teacher had created a project that was below the ability of your child? Surely the teacher should have created a project that adequately challenged your particular child and that might mean that the project would be harder than what was given to the other children. Aren’t we encouraged to individualize our instruction and activities to the various levels of our students?

By oldteacher

March 31, 2006 02:05 PM | Link to this

Are you suggesting that my child should be punished for being smarter or at least more willing to work on her project?

I would (and do) have a sliding list. If you want an A you do this, a B you do this and on down the line. I would not add extra work to an assignment just because a child works harder and finishes early.

By oldteacher

March 31, 2006 02:07 PM | Link to this

Are we encouraged to individualize our instruction? No. We are encouraged to make it so that the laziest and least capable student passes.

By Jeff

March 31, 2006 02:08 PM | Link to this

oldteacher,

by your name I’m going to assume you’re one of the “veteran” teachers. You should know that modifying an assignment for an “A” student to make it more challenging is actually SUPPOSED to happen. Otherwise, bordeom and stagnation happen and most - if not all - educational benefit is lost, leading to a HOST of discipline problems…

By jim d

March 31, 2006 02:10 PM | Link to this

Ok folks, quit with the too easy crap and go back to the story.

2 students spentpart of their weekend getting ahead.

We don’t know if they spent an hour or if they spent 12 hrs. To punish a child with enlightement for taking their responsibiility seriously and stepping up to be accountable is pure unadulterated crap. And y’all know it.

By Leia

March 31, 2006 02:12 PM | Link to this

oldteacher - it’s time to retire!

By oldteacher

March 31, 2006 02:13 PM | Link to this

I only teach remedial so I guess I have lost touch. LOL

By jim d

March 31, 2006 02:14 PM | Link to this

Jeff, so you believe if a student works on an assignment while everyone else is hanging at the mall, playing video games and in general just wasting a day that said child should be punished for being responsible?

You’re a scary dude!

By jim d

March 31, 2006 02:15 PM | Link to this

Jeff, so you believe if a student works on an assignment while everyone else is hanging at the mall, playing video games and in general just wasting a day that said child should be punished for being responsible?

You’re a scary dude!

By Jeff

March 31, 2006 02:17 PM | Link to this

Jim,

My history wasn’t that nice, and that is NONE of a parent’s business unless I choose to tell them. The list of crimes I’ve committed is decently long, and the list of crimes I’ve been accused of is even longer. ALL OF IT, other than minor traffic violations such as speeding and failure to yield, happened before I was 17 and is court sealed. Only I have the code to grant access to it, and I destroyed that document as soon as I got it.

I’m living proof that a man can change, and one of my goals in my career is to help change as many lives for the better as possible. I did enough damage in my day, and I’ll spend the rest of my life trying to make up for it.

I don’t need a bunch of hypocritical overprotective parents trying to tell me what I can and can’t do.

By oldteacher

March 31, 2006 02:17 PM | Link to this

Ok, Leia, thank you very much. I won’t bother with my opinions any more since yours seems to be so much more valuable.

By jim d

March 31, 2006 02:24 PM | Link to this

Jeff, I don’t know you but lets just suppose you were to have a couple of drinks, get behind the whell and commit a felony. Parents don’t have a right to know that? Should teachers be exempt from open records?

Don’t———think so.

By Jeff

March 31, 2006 02:25 PM | Link to this

I KNOW “a” students need to be challenged. Growing up, I WAS ONE. But I was one that did things far and above what the teacher told me to do. Teacher never had to “enrich” me. Unfortunately, today’s kids- and I’m only 5 yrs older than my senios - won’t do that.

As for being a “scary dude”: If only you knew… I changed a LONG time ago (8 yrs now), but my whole persona now is built around ppl never discovering just how evil I once was.

By jim d

March 31, 2006 02:27 PM | Link to this

Jeff,

Every pedophile in the country would just love you if you can get all their records purged so they can teach.

You still think parents don’t have a right to know?

By LOL :) at the funny people

March 31, 2006 02:27 PM | Link to this

Old jim………..you still up to your “I don’t know what the hell I’m talking about ways?” Yo…. you are so funny. I just wish I could take you…sit you in a classroom on the southside of Chicago or in Brooklyn!!!! Between you and Lee I can’t tell who is the bigger p******…and Lee the comment you made about Education going downhill since Brown vs. board of Education….are you a racist….did you not want blacks to intergrate the schools?

By Jeff

March 31, 2006 02:29 PM | Link to this

jim,

parents do NOT have the right to know my arrest record. Period. Only exception I would allow there is for crimes against children, and even those should disappear from public records after 10 yrs.

As far as me drinking (I’m not stupid enough to drink and drive, thank you very much.): I’m 23 yrs old. Its legal. Their child is maybe 17 or so. Illegal. Different issues alogether there. Yet some parents - I believe even YOU said this - allow their MINOR CHILDREN to drink in their homes. The Law doesn’t say it is illegal for persons under 21 to consume alcohol in a bar. The Law says that it is ilegal for persons under 21 to consume alcohol. (Period.)

hmm… makes one wonder…

By somad

March 31, 2006 02:35 PM | Link to this

I gave a project….then again they’ve had this week and all of next week to do it!!! It should only take them 20 minutes to complete….They had an option of either this week or next week. I know that they still aren’t going to do it but I did my job!

By jim d

March 31, 2006 02:40 PM | Link to this

Jeff, You say “I was one that did things far and above what the teacher told me to do. Teacher never had to “enrich” me. Unfortunately, today’s kids- and I’m only 5 yrs older than my senios - won’t do that.

Lets go back to the story back to the story.

“Let me explain my child really gets into projects and has a track record for turning them in at least a week early and generally receives one of the highest grades given on a project.”

Let’s just assume the parent is telling the truth.

Being a teacher, would you give a child the highest score for doing enough to get by or can we assume those scores would be reserved for those that went the extra mile?

And to be honest my friend, I grew up near some pretty large metropolitan areas, kind of close to Detroit. I doubt seriously that you can surprise me. What scares me about you is your lack of understanding for what appears to be a few good students. You seem to look at them all as if they were you (back when)

By T-Man

March 31, 2006 02:45 PM | Link to this

Any work over springbreak for both sides is to much. I do understand somewhat of the Teacher having to do work and it is still unfair. But to think when I planned this trip last year for springbreak week I forgot to call the teacher and ask if I need to have a computer. Not fair. Stop it, Springbreak is what it is a BREAK. My kid’s will get their history during break when we hit the Museum. I feel it is their time to unwind and get recharged. Not time to revisit the mind set of the classroom.

By Lee

March 31, 2006 02:47 PM | Link to this

Jeff, “parents do NOT have the right to know my arrest record. Period. Only exception I would allow there is for crimes against children, and even those should disappear from public records after 10 yrs.”

Are you serious?

By T-Man

March 31, 2006 02:51 PM | Link to this

Springbreak is a break. During planning for our trip last year was I to include the teacher on what my child may need for his break week. I think not. It is their week to unwind and get recharged. When the teacher has to work during the break it is not fair but don’t take it out on the kids and make them work to. They do need a break and they do not need someone like their teacher planning it for them.

By T-Man

March 31, 2006 02:52 PM | Link to this

Springbreak is a break. During planning for our trip last year was I to include the teacher on what my child may need for his break week. I think not. It is their week to unwind and get recharged. When the teacher has to work during the break it is not fair but don’t take it out on the kids and make them work to. They do need a break and they do not need someone like their teacher planning it for them.

By Lee

March 31, 2006 02:56 PM | Link to this

Right now, every Principal who reads these blogs and has a young teacher named Jeff just went “Oh Sh++.”

By jim d

March 31, 2006 03:02 PM | Link to this

geez, Why is it that you must twist everyuthing I say? NO I do NOT allow underage people to drink in my home. I HAVE NEVER SAID THAT!!

But to be quite frank, IF my child were to have a drink I can only hope I’ve done my job as a parent and that he would do it responsibly and not place others lifes at risk.

By jim d

March 31, 2006 03:06 PM | Link to this

Lee, only if that teacher teaches Geometry.

LOL

By jim d

March 31, 2006 03:21 PM | Link to this

Jeff, on a serious note, it may be time for a wakeup call regarding underage drinking and how we as parents can handle it.

 88% of high school seniors have tried alcohol at least once. (3)  28% of high school seniors admit to binge drinking at least once in the two weeks before they were surveyed. (3)  By the time they graduate from high school, two-thirds of youth are regular drinkers, and two-fifths are frequent binge drinkers. (2)  Binge drinking during high school, especially among males, is a strong predictor of binge drinking during college (among those who make it to college.) (2)  Eight young people a day die in alcohol-related crashes. (1)  Alcohol kills more teenagers than all other drugs combined. It is a factor in the three leading causes of death among 15-24 year olds: accidents, homicides, and suicides. (2)  Over 33% of all deaths for people aged 15-20 result from motor vehicle crashes. In 1996, almost two out of five of these motor vehicle fatalities involved alcohol. (4)  Youth who drink are 7.5 times more likely to use other illicit drugs and 50 times more likely to use cocaine than young people who never drink. (1)

Sources: 1 — National Institute on Drug Abuse 2 — National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism 3 — Monitoring the Future 4 – Drug Abuse Warning Network 5 – Harvard School of Public Health 6 – Join Together Online 7 – Office for Substance Abuse Prevention

By Jeff

March 31, 2006 03:41 PM | Link to this

Ladies and gents,

Honestly, y’all caught me on a bad day. Stress, built up frustration, and a lack of food (I’m borderline diabetic) came together and I always wind up talking about my history when that occurs. If you notice, the insanity creeps in little by little over the course of the few hours from 11 - 2. Right when I should have eaten again.

Honestly, I’m NOT a danger AT ALL anymore. Only exception being that I will use every single thing I learned when I was a dangerous man to stop someone from being hurt.

As far as the teen drinking thing goes: I honestly don’t know how to stop it. I’ve heard horror stories all my life about my alcholoc grandfather, so I CHOSE not to drink until my 21st birthday, and I can EASILY count - using all my digits - the number of times I’ve drank in the two years since then, but that has been my choice. My 19 yr old brother was drinking in HS and at this point in his life has probably consumed more alcohol than I have. Again, I simply don’t know how to stop it.

By jim d

March 31, 2006 04:17 PM | Link to this

Jeff,

I’m not about to worry myself with stopping it. Kids are going to drink, thats just the hard reality. What we must do is provide them with the support and information to make wise choices and not risk their or their friends lifes. Certainly we should discourage teen drinking, but That is not where we should stop.

By jim d

March 31, 2006 04:45 PM | Link to this

Patti,

Excellent blog today.

I would also like to say thanks to everyone that joined in. (even those that are wrong ;-)

y’all have a safe weekend, and those of you heading out of town on spring break,Travel safe!!

By C.R.H.

March 31, 2006 04:51 PM | Link to this

Can someone explain to me how I, as a teacher, am not held accountable for the large percentage of underachievers (read that as “apathetic & lazy”)& mentally incompetent (read that as “crackbabies”) that seem to fill my classroom every year? I get called to the carpet for EVERY student who fails my class. I seriously have notebooks full of documentation & work samples for these little darlings that I have to use to explain THEIR FAILURE!

By C.R.H.

March 31, 2006 04:51 PM | Link to this

Can someone explain to me how I, as a teacher, am not held accountable for the large percentage of underachievers (read that as “apathetic & lazy”)& mentally incompetent (read that as “crackbabies”) that seem to fill my classroom every year? I get called to the carpet for EVERY student who fails my class. I seriously have notebooks full of documentation & work samples for these little darlings that I have to use to explain THEIR FAILURE!

By Lynne

April 3, 2006 09:06 AM | Link to this

How is Jeff able to post all day if he is supposed to be teaching? I have noted posts around 9, 11, 11:40, 12, 12:40 or so and on throught the day. My kids work their butts off during school, taking 4-5 honors classes as 9th and 10th graders, then taking 3-4 AP classes as 11 and 12th graders. They need the breaks to recharge and get ready for what is coming up. They will soon have end of course tests in some subjects, AP exams, then finals. My kids are hard workers and very diligent about doing their work. They are in the top 10 students of their classes. That said, I am glad they don’t have Jeff for a teacher. He has a lot to learn.

By Karen Armsby

April 3, 2006 09:50 AM | Link to this

The young teacher has a lot to learn as there will always be the few top students who complete an assignment early, most will complete it by the due date, and others will procrastinate and always be late! It is totally unfair to those students who go ahead and get it done to assign more work AND expect that they will work over the break!

Spring BREAK is not a break if there is homework, and if I still had kids in K-12 I would complain to the teacher, the grade level coordinator, the assistant principal, the principal, and the main office people, too.

By OHM

April 3, 2006 11:01 AM | Link to this

I think both teachers and parents need a reality check here. EVERYONE needs a break once in a while, teachers, students, and parents. However, as a teacher, I am well aware of the effect of a week’s vacation on my student’s ability to recall material from the week before. So, as a compromise, I give a test the day BEFORE the last day preceding a break, and on the last day when half my students are gone, I allow them class time to work on a “homework assignment” that is basically a review of the material and leads them into the next unit. They almost always complete the assigment in class and therefore have no homework during the week. Students that decided to start their vacation a day early have to spend some of that vacation time completing the assignment. This can usually be accomplished within two hours time, so I find that it is completely reasonable and fair to all. As for parents and students wanting extra work, I always give out a list of extra credit assignments at the beginning of the semester, and I remind them of this before any break.

As for the personal life, that is at teacher discretion, but I find that parents usually don’t care and assume that we are available 24/7 (and many of us are!) However, if I have personal knowledge of my students’ families and their events, then I am expected to bend my schedule and teaching methods to accomodate them. Isn’t that a double standard that teachers are being held to?

By MMM

April 3, 2006 11:09 AM | Link to this

My 1st grade son came home with the following Spring Break homework on 1/2 sheet of paper.

Before anyone freaks—remember that we parents that aren’t going anywhere need to keep our kids occupied and I think this is a fine list of ideas for a six year old.

By Jeff

April 3, 2006 11:17 AM | Link to this

Lynne,

Class breaks. Particularly the early posts. CPS comes in around 10:30, and the lectures in that class are usually only 20 minutes. (They don’t have books to take home, so I have to give them time to do the assignment in class.)

Today is SB, but I’m several hrs early for an interview in Middle GA (Perry/ Americus vicinity). I’ve got TONS of papers to grade, but as usual… its break, and I’m putting it off!

By Lynne

April 3, 2006 11:20 AM | Link to this

Lynne,

Another thing: today’s honors/ college prep ain’t what it was even 5 yrs ago. These kids think they can sleep through my class and expect to be prepared for college. I just got out last May, and I’ve flat out told them they are dead wrong in their thinking. I FORCE my kids to study for their grades, and that is why I am unpopular with the students. Every single parent I talk to loves my approach though…

By Jeff

April 3, 2006 11:26 AM | Link to this

OOPSS!!! That last “Lynne” comment was mine! Sometimes get to thinking about who I’m replying to and put their name up there instead of mine! (I know, bad thing, but I DO try to catch and correct!)

By luvs2teach

April 3, 2006 11:52 AM | Link to this

As an 8th grade teacher, no, I do not assign work over Spring Break. I don’t assign any work, because as a parent, I remember how much I hated it when my children had work. I don’t feel it’s neccessary for any children in grade K - 8.

High school is a different story - both my children went to a high school on the semester block, and having to work on projects was the norm for at least one or two classes. However, the assignments were always given well before break, and not due until at least a week after break, so there was plenty of time to work on them outside of Spring Break if we were busy.

I used to have project due the week before Spring Break, with the idea that I could grade them during break - never worked out as planned so I don’t do that anymore. I prefer to use the time to brainstorm some engaging and fun lessons to do after the CRCT to bring us through the end of the year - I love teaching once the CRCT pressure is off.

The teacher in the post was wrong - you don’t assign more work to students as a punishment for doing what they should’ve done in the first place - what’s not being said though, is WHY the teacher threatened that - were the students causing trouble and when asked why they weren’t working, showed the teacher how far ahead they were? This in turn leading to the teacher making a (hopefully) idle threat out of frustration ? Who knows - but this is where good parent-teacher communication comes. Yes, mom should talk to the teacher, and find out her side of the story. Experience as both a parent AND a teacher tells me the truth will be somewhere between both versions!

Lee, I don’t want your children 24/7 - I don’t even want my own that long (that’s why I don’t homeschool, Mr. Liberty).

;-)

By jim d

April 3, 2006 01:17 PM | Link to this

While I’ve pretty much argued against home work during spring break, would anyone care to venture a guess at what my childs doing today?

HE DECIDED TO WORK to pick up some pocket change. GO FIGURE! ;-)

By Tina

April 3, 2006 02:55 PM | Link to this

I’m a teacher who brought home work to do over Spring Break, and I’m already putting off doing it! No way would I ask my students to have work! Not all students would have access to the materials needed to do it anyway. Spring BREAK means just that!