Get Schooled

By Lmay

March 21, 2006 08:28 AM | Link to this

Of course it should be allowed. It is being offered as an elective, not a mandatory class. If I remember correctly we do live in the USA. We should have the right to select a class if desired. It is not an infringment on anyones rights if it is an elective. Only those students who want to take the class will “elect” to take it. The next step will be to make sure that whomever is teaching the class is a bible scholar, and will do the greatest BOOK ever written, justice.

By Sandi

March 21, 2006 08:28 AM | Link to this

I would definitely want my kids enrolled in the Bible courses. I think it would be a start to teaching the kids morals and respect. Just think about the number of kids that could be reached for Jesus, YES!!!!!

By Sandi

March 21, 2006 08:31 AM | Link to this

I would definitely want my kids enrolled in the Bible courses. I think that it would be a start to teaching kids morals and respect. Just think of how many kids could be reached for Jesus through these classes, YES!!!!! THE WAY,THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE.

By oldteacher

March 21, 2006 08:34 AM | Link to this

Since it does not allow the religious materials of any other religion, I would object to it being taught. The saving grace is that it is not required to be taught by schools or taken by students.

By C1ay

March 21, 2006 08:35 AM | Link to this

No. Tax dollars should not be used for Bible, Quran or any other religious classes. That’s what Sunday school is for. To do this in public schools is also a government endorsement of religion that should not be allowed. Maintain the wall between church and state for the good of both.

By C.R.H.

March 21, 2006 08:35 AM | Link to this

As a taxpayer, I do not want my money being used to support the teaching of anything having to do with religion. If you want to learn about the bible, go to church.

By Jim

March 21, 2006 08:37 AM | Link to this

The Bible thumpers are already salivating. Yeah, it’s an elective, but whatever happened to the separation of church and state. When will the Koran study elective be available? I hope never. This snowball is going to be one heck of a bear to stop. We’re on the slippery slope. Keep the morals teaching at home, and the Bible study at Sunday school.

By JAY

March 21, 2006 08:38 AM | Link to this

This would be a very good idea because it gives students the opportunity to make the choice themselves to study the bible. this world is in a mess and god is trying to tell us something and its about time we start recognizing it. May god bless us all

By GOB

March 21, 2006 08:42 AM | Link to this

“Just think about the number of kids that could be reached for Jesus, YES!!!!!”

Doesnt this type of comment show why so many people are opposed to this class? The class would be taught in public schools, therefore, it would be illegal for them to try and reach kids for Jesus. Would a study of Islam be received with the same gusto?

In theory, the class is a good idea, but the trouble will be keeping it from becoming sunday school. Will that seperation be able to be kept? That remains to be seen, but i have my doubts.

By Ex-Northerner

March 21, 2006 08:43 AM | Link to this

With my tax dollars? In the words of Whitney, “Hell to the NO!”

By John

March 21, 2006 08:43 AM | Link to this

I totally agree with oldteacher. Though it is an elective, it still is a very touchy subject in public education. PUBLIC EDUCATION not private. We need to look at the big picture. Not every student that attends public school in Georgia in Christian that worships Jesus, GOD or read the Bible. There is no equality because we are not offering an elective for any other religion. I would not offer it either! There will be some litigation from someone.

By Clyde

March 21, 2006 08:45 AM | Link to this

Teach the Bible as an elective? Of course - if you also offer the Koran and other major religious courses as well. If we are going to navigate the waters separating church and state, make sure that we do the other major religions and great books justice as well. Anything else is just using the public school system to promote a single type of theology.

By GOB

March 21, 2006 08:47 AM | Link to this

Jim - That slippery slope you are talking about would be the best thing to happen with this class. It will likely be the only thing that keeps this public school elective from becoming a sunday school class. If the basic fundemental beliefs of all religions are taught, we might even teach our kids to be more tolerant and understanding of the world around them.

The argument about no religious study in public schools doesnt hold water. Public universities receive state and federal money, and can teach religious classes. The difference is they are not taught to pursuade you to believe, but to understand the world we live in.

Notice the most ardent supporters here are supporting because it will “reach kids for Jesus” or because “God is telling us something.” That is frightening.

By Virginia Hawkins

March 21, 2006 08:49 AM | Link to this

Comparative Religion, fine. The Bible alone, no. All faiths need to be respected.

If this passes, chalk another one up for the American Taliban.

By Ga Liberal

March 21, 2006 08:50 AM | Link to this

Absoultely not. As seen by a several of the posts, this is simply a backdoor method to inject Christian religion into the classroom. It’s bad enough that Christian dogma is being rammed down our throats by a very small group of very vocal people, but to use the classroom to recruite new supplicants is tantamount to child abuse and misappropiation of my taxes. I payed taxes for childs education; not religious indoctrination. Keep religion where it belongs - in church - and out of where it doesn’t - the classroom. Thankfully, the ACLU will file a lawsuite and have this law declared unconstitutional.

By Al Gaskins

March 21, 2006 08:50 AM | Link to this

You see the state of our schools and society and you ask if i think it will be alright. GOD only knows!!!!!!!!

By Kenny

March 21, 2006 08:51 AM | Link to this

A good way to start teaching morals and human behaviour guides however Quaran teachings and other religions out there should be allowed as elective so as not to be seen promoting only one religion. Afterall we are ALL immigrants in this country.

By sue

March 21, 2006 08:52 AM | Link to this

sure teach about the bible. how it came to be. the contextual wording. how some of its stories and doctrines appear in older non jewish or christian texts. the books left out of the king james. i am all for teaching about the bible.

i also think a class about the quran should be taught. as well as classes on tao, upanishads, etc.

allowing young minds to grasp unto the facts behind various religious text is a great way to open their minds to things beyond what is spoken year after year after year from the pulpit of their local church. it is hard for a thinking person to study the bible and remain committed to a view that their view is the only correct view.

By Steve Weeks

March 21, 2006 08:53 AM | Link to this

Bible classes should be taught in Sunday school not in the public schools.

By jeff

March 21, 2006 08:53 AM | Link to this

For those who have chose not to believe will one day fall to there knees and beg for forgiveness! No one is going to make a child take this class but many students would take this class if offered. for every minute they are in this class they may not be exposed to drugs or premarital sex.

By Child of God

March 21, 2006 08:54 AM | Link to this

I think it’s a great idea. They are not making the students take the class. They are just offering it. I guantee the crime rate in schools will go down, and the grades will go up. Back when I went to school, I remember when we use to freely pray and talk about GOD. Now, look at our children. They are gone astray because they took God out of school. Let’s work together and get our children back. God is the only way. God bless who ever came up with that idea.

By oldteacher

March 21, 2006 08:56 AM | Link to this

GOB, a bigger difference in the teaching of religion in hs and in college is the age and maturity of the students.

By Chipper

March 21, 2006 08:58 AM | Link to this

I hope the powers that be in the legislature are looking at this blog. I hope that they will change their minds in a hurry.

By Kathy K

March 21, 2006 08:59 AM | Link to this

This is an absurd proposition. If Christians want the Bible taught to their children, then the appropriate place for that is their church or at home. It is totally inappropriate to single out one religion to teach at school. Gosh, I don’t understand why people don’t understand the need for a separation of church and state. Besides, the last time I checked, Georgia’s students ranked at the bottom of the academic list, so to add another elective is even that much more ridiculous. People should have some decency and respect everyone’s religious beliefs—or lack thereof.

By Tei

March 21, 2006 09:00 AM | Link to this

This is a direct violation of our constitutional rights. What happened to freedom of religion? What happened to a separation of church and state?

I don’t have anything against anyone wanting to learn the Bible but that should be taught at home, at church, or at a private religious school.

Although the class is an elective, if you are going to allow scripture-based classes for one religion, you need to allow it for all religions. Just as a Christian student would have the option to take a Biblical class, a Jewish student should have the option to take a Torah class, a Muslim student should be allowed to take a Qur’an class and so on.

It may be an elective for the Bible class but this is just the starting point for it to become a requirement.

As a Hindu parent, where is the option to take Vedas, Bhagavad Gita or Upanishad classes for my child?

Not everyone in Georgia is Christian and our constiution allows the people to practice whatever religion they choose.

Is America becoming a religious state? Public life should remain secular and religion should stay in private life.

By Zac

March 21, 2006 09:00 AM | Link to this

Religion is an important influence in the history of literature and civilization. However, judeo-christian religions are only one of the many religion which had influence. There is an inherent importance to teach our children the history of all religions that have affected our literature and civiliztion. This must be done in a completely secular manner, in order to prevent the state sponsored prosetylization of our children. A secular survey of the major religious influences cannot focus solely on one religion. There is a slippery slope once you step away from separation of church and state that has one direction in which to fall. A religious state, like may of those our current government is trying to break apart. Religious extremism is at the heart of the majority of terrorism in the world today. This bill would be a first step toward planting a seed of state sponsorship of christianity. I don’t know about you, but I do not wish to live in a christian version of Iran. You might think that is a harsh comparison, but consider what would happen if we elected Pat Robertson, or someone similar, as president in an America where christianity was the only rule. The word “Crusade” would strike fear in the hearts of all the countries of the world. I realize this may seem a stretch for what many think to be a harmless bill. However, the slope is steep and slippery, and this bill would be the first step off that cliff.

By JJ Harper, IW

March 21, 2006 09:01 AM | Link to this

What an elective!!! I remember (in the 70’s) when “electives” began to mean “time-off” from necessary school work! I can remember taking two (2) electives in my high school years. One was “home economics,” and the other… “debate.”

I suppose I should have never taken the “debate” courses, because - well - see what it got me in to? lol I really never had time to take “electives.” The reason for this was because my parents demanded that I take “higher-education” (college based) courses during my high school years. While many were still taking “get-by” courses like “general math and extra P.E.,” I “had” to take algebra, geometry, trig, and chemistry, etc.

I found out (right quick) that my parents did good by demanding that I go above and beyond - to excel with the best. Without those college based courses in high school, I would have never made it through Calculus III in college!

Lately, I’ve noticed all kinds of baloney going on in our school systems regarding electives! Some students even get “half days” at school. What the heck is that?

As you can see, I’m not much one for electives! However, if children are going to be given the choice between studying the bible or playing golf, I’d much rather see them studying the bible! You might say, “Who’s going to pick THAT elective? I think you’ll be surprised! Yes, the ones that choose that elective will be predominantly white. They will be the ones that were brought up in Christian homes. They will be the ones that have the desire to choose meaningful electives. They will be the ones that know Christ as their Savior!

I guess that makes that elective “racist.” I’m not saying that some minorities won’t participate! I believe that there are Christian people outside of the white race! You draw your own conclusions from the upcoming facts. Let’s just see who chooses this elective. If I were a “betting man,” none of you would wager against me!

By Shani

March 21, 2006 09:02 AM | Link to this

I dont have any children but i have only been out of high school for almost five years and i can clearly tell the difference in how OUR children our taught now days. I have a brother who is a senior in high school and all the kids seem to care about is what they are wearing and who they are hanging with. I have friends who are teachers and they dont care about OUR kids the way our teachers cared for us. To them teaching is a job and thats all. The bible was the first book ever written. All other religions have pulled from the bible. So do i think we need the bible classes BACK in school. Yes!!!! Its time that we as a nation step up and with hold our constitution that says we live under one God. We give our kids too much lead way while they are in the school. Thats why they are graduating and choosing hell over life. they are not being taught morals. they are being taught how to get away with things by taking the easy way out. So please if you have a child in school who has the option to take these classes and they have a desire to. Dont hold them back. This is positive. Think about it if we dont throw the bible in then the next thing maybe Rap!!! and we all see what hip hop has turned into.

By storm8

March 21, 2006 09:02 AM | Link to this

As a taxpayer, I don’t want my money going to teach any religion. Go to church or study religion at home.

By Kove

March 21, 2006 09:03 AM | Link to this

Whose version of Christianity are they going to teach? Baptist? Seventh Day Adventist? Unification Church? (yes, they consider themselves Christian) Branch Davidian? It would be interesting to see what happens when the school’s version differs from the parents’ version. That’s another good reason to let people learn their religion in their own church and/or religious school.

However, the law is unconstitutional becasue it uses public funds and public facilities to single out and promote a single religion. It will almost certainly be enjoined before a single class is held, and then it will struck down under the First Amendment.

By by KG

March 21, 2006 09:04 AM | Link to this

By KG March 21, 2006 8:50AM Yes, this should be allowed as an elective, and should be taught by a certified deacon or pastor. This may even help students who are experienceing peer pressure and unhealthy distractions which causes them to make the wrong decisions that ,in which they find themselves in bad,situations.The children may even learn how to handle things better. They might even feel confortable taking to a deacon, someone in his youth like them, but whom is spirtually mature. This may even be a positive influence in the school system, so that maybe our children will be able to concentrate on their education more so, then the other things that they are surrounded by( I think most parents understand what I am referring to), since sex education is taught in our school to our children , these bible courses would teach them how to handle this subject and why saying no is important and teach them how to deal with it in a positive , and healthy way. God bless each and everyone of you.

By ELRIII

March 21, 2006 09:04 AM | Link to this

I’ll bet that the people who cry the loudest about wanting the Bible taught or prayer in the schools NEVER do it at home. It’s laziness. Why do you want a government school teaching your kids their version of the Bible?

As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord, not the schools.

By GOB

March 21, 2006 09:05 AM | Link to this

“I guantee the crime rate in schools will go down, and the grades will go up…They are gone astray because they took God out of school.”

These are two incredibly assumptive statements. Do you have anything that would back either of them up? I suspect more kids have “gone astray” because of poor, indifferent parenting than anything else.

Oldteacher - good point about the difference between hs and college, but the main difference is still in what is taught. Afterall, there isnt a lot of difference between a hs senior and a college freshman.

By John N.

March 21, 2006 09:06 AM | Link to this

Whew, this is great. Because we all know that you can’t find a church in Georgia. And last thing we’d want is for the parents to take the time to give kids religious guidance on their own time.

I have no doubt our enlightened legislature will also include elective classes on the Torah, Koran, and other religious texts.

By Mark W. King

March 21, 2006 09:07 AM | Link to this

These folks who want government shoving religion down the throats of others should move to a country where that is the norm. Afghanistan and Iran are two options that come to mind.

By John N.

March 21, 2006 09:08 AM | Link to this

Oh please Child of God. You can freely pray now. You’re just bent out of shape that you can’t coerce other people to participate in your prayer.

If you can’t figure out how to bow your head and have a quiet conversation with God, that’s your problem, not mine.

By JAMES BRYDEN

March 21, 2006 09:10 AM | Link to this

Religions have killed more people than all drugs put together. Don’t teach it.

By atltoday

March 21, 2006 09:11 AM | Link to this

I’m a Christian but I tend to think that this is a very bad idea. Who’s doctrine will be taught? I’m pentecostal, but some are apostolic which means they don’t believe in the trinity…how do you handle these things? i say no…leave it to the churches unless you just teach stories and moral fiber of the scriptures alone.

By George

March 21, 2006 09:13 AM | Link to this

Which version of the Bible would be taught? Would it be both Old and New Testaments? Would it be a history of how the Bible was written, would it mention what was deleted and what was added over the centuries by whatever rulers were in power at the time? It seems doubtful that a school board would be able to decide how to even structure this course.

By bruce

March 21, 2006 09:13 AM | Link to this

In this day and age, I can’t even believe this has been presented as a valid proposal. However, sometimes I must remember what part of the country I have chosen to live in.

By Chipper

March 21, 2006 09:13 AM | Link to this

Amen, ELRlll, those are the same parents who want sex ed or manners taught in school. Schools should teach academics and not the things that parents should be teaching at home.

By GOB

March 21, 2006 09:13 AM | Link to this

“The bible was the first book ever written. All other religions have pulled from the bible.”

Uhhhhh…What?

Is there anyone here that is supporting this class that doesnt view it as a way to convert kids or save their souls? If that is the basis of your support, then you are supporting something that is strictly prohibited by the Constitution, and should really be teaching your kids that stuff at home, or letting the church indoctrinate them.

By FD

March 21, 2006 09:14 AM | Link to this

YES, it is a great idea…if you don’t want to take the class, DON’T! To those who worry about their tax dollars going toward something they don’t approve…that’s already happening!!!!!

By KIM S.

March 21, 2006 09:15 AM | Link to this

It’s about time! I refuse to allow my child to attend public school simply because prayer and bible study is not allowed. I think is sad that one woman, who was lost in Christ, allowed this to happen. I think it’s insulting, American’s are quick to say ” God Bless America” but don’t want bible study allowed where children spend the majarity of their time and most vulnerable. Puplic schools no longer encourage morals or integrity since prayer and the topic of God was prohibited. It’s time to save our children by allowing bible study to resurface.

By Tamika

March 21, 2006 09:15 AM | Link to this

Georgia Ranks at the Bottom when it comes to education— And the damn Christian Right is worried about teaching MY children about GOD in public school—

What a Waste of time— KICK THE DAMN CHRISTIN SO CALLED “RIGHT” OUT—

THEY DO NOTHING BUT CHRITISIZE PEOPLE THERE WAY OR NO WAY

By Ashley

March 21, 2006 09:17 AM | Link to this

I would be concerned that someone who didn’t attend seminary school would be allowed to teach children about the Bible. How do you know that the teacher would portray the correct message? Teachers have trouble educating students on algebra and physics, I’d prefer to keep them away from poorly delivering such an important message!

By Tamika

March 21, 2006 09:17 AM | Link to this

Send Your Kids to Church to get Bible Study— My Tax Dollars should not have to go teach your Children about the Bible because you all are to lazy to Take them to Church—

If you all were better Parents and doing a good job Parenting you would be teaching your Kids Morales AT HOME

By candide

March 21, 2006 09:19 AM | Link to this

Very few Georgia teachers are capable of teaching the truth about the Bible. They have not studied scientific biblical scholarship and many of them are fundamentalists. The truth about the Bible is that it was not written by God, it is not good history, it does not give us the real Jesus and it demonizes the earliest followers of Jesus led by his brother James of Jerusalem. None of this will be taught. A lot of evangelical redneck Christianity will be taught. There will be law suits galore.

By John N.

March 21, 2006 09:20 AM | Link to this

Wow Kim, you sure don’t know your history. Prayer has never been removed from school. Administrative led prayer has, but prayer has not. I guess you didn’t realize you could lead your kids in prayer before they got on the bus? Or perhaps tell them they could say a quiet prayer before class started? That never crossed your mind?

The real issue is that you can’t coerce everyone to listen to how devout you can be. I guess you’re looking for your reward on earth.

By 2N4years

March 21, 2006 09:20 AM | Link to this

This is a FREE country for a reason. Nobody is making anyone take classes about religion. It’s funny how some of you love for the government to be bigger. This same group of people who think the government should be there for ‘everybody’, providing food, education, housing, etc., etc. It’s also the same group of people that believe because some people just don’t have good parents and grow up in bad homes that the government should provide access to everything else, because it just wouldn’t be fair for someone to not have the opportunity to learn about something that their parents didn’t teach them; I.E.: sex education. Now I sit here and listen to the same people claim that’s it’s NOT the governments responsibility. Ha! You can’t have it both ways:)

By oldteacher

March 21, 2006 09:20 AM | Link to this

GOB in my head (LOL) I was thinking more that college students are legal adults. Sometimes my fingers don’t type what my head is thinking.

By Brian

March 21, 2006 09:21 AM | Link to this

BY ALL MEANS! Mythology should be a part of every school curriculum. I also believe that the always-shifting beliefs of religionists should be included, such as the statements of pre-Civil War Christian luminaries defending slavery and more recently, the veiled threats coming from such noteworthy Christians as James Dobson and Tom DeLay. As a child, I recall a Southern Baptist leader who declared that “God does not hear the prayer of a Jew.” By all means, let’s explain the benefits of polygamy and retribution just like the Bible tells us. Students need to know just how glorious this religion is.

By Aubrey

March 21, 2006 09:26 AM | Link to this

As a christian, I see the danger of teaching this in public school. Unfortunately, there is no way to truly screen teachers for this and find out their opinions. Even within the Christian church people have different doctrinal beliefs. I know that if I had a child I would want them to learn about their christian faith from their parents, their church, and from youth groups. In college, you could always take christian studies classes and occasionally the professor was an atheist whose sole purpose was to disprove everything in the bible. I think a far more useful class would be an objective teaching of world religions or break it into sections such as “eastern” or “western” religion. Taught objectively, world religion would be a wonderful class. Yes I would love to see kids get biblical training in schools but unfortunately I don’t know that I would necessarily trust the teacher. For instance, parents how would you feel if you were baptist and your child came home wondering why the didn’t get sprinkled as a kid but had to wait to be baptized. That’s a very simple difference. Also, some denominations believe that you are saved when you accept Christ. Others believe that even if you are killed on the way to your baptism if you haven’t been dunked you are not saved.

By Alexi

March 21, 2006 09:26 AM | Link to this

SANDI: It is YOUR job to teach your children morals and respect. Not the school’s! Their job is to educate.

And let’s at least be honest, the politicians aren’t even thinking about whether or not it is actually a “good” or “bad” idea, they are simply PANDERING for votes in an election year. If they were concerned about passing laws for “good” ideas, they would pass laws concerning better education, health care, alleviating pollution, congestion, traffic, etc. etc. They are just jumping on a zealot bandwagon for votes in September.

By Greg

March 21, 2006 09:28 AM | Link to this

Considering students in Georgia rank DEAD LAST in math, science and english, it seems odd that RELIGION is a item to be taught. One replier stated it was a good way for morals and values to be taught. That is the responsibility of the PARENT, not the school. Take responsibility for your children and quit expecting the state to moralize your offspring. If you cant take care of your child, give it away to someone who has some sense and get sterilized immediately

By David

March 21, 2006 09:29 AM | Link to this

I think teaching a course on the Bible in public schools is wonderful idea. Once the right-wing nuts who voted in this class learn that there’s more mythology, revision, redaction, editing, and pure fiction in the collected works we call the bible, they’ll stop being such fundamentalist morons. Maybe they’ll even stop with the creationist/intelligent design/whatwelearnedinsundayschool debates and they’ll let science teachers teach science.

By Joann Little

March 21, 2006 09:30 AM | Link to this

I think it would be a great ideal. This country was built upon the teachings of the Bible.

By Bill

March 21, 2006 09:32 AM | Link to this

Why does the GOP & religious right want this? Because they believe in BIG government when it comes to morals, their morals that is, and everyone should obey them. They want this, not to teach their kids, because they are already being taught the only right way to live, but to teach YOUR kids the right way to think & believe. They are trying to save you & the rest of society. Does this sound like true freedom?

It’s elective now, they need to get their foot in the door. But that’s not the ultimate plan. Unfortunately, this will not be objective & nondenominational, it will be just like Sunday school in no time. And when the ACLU files suit (and it should) it will win. Who loses, the Georgia taxpayers who will have to pay the legal fees for such a waste of time.

By Melinda

March 21, 2006 09:33 AM | Link to this

I think offering a bible class in public schools is a great idea. First of all it is an elective and there are children who would like to hear about the history and literature of the bible, what are you afraid of your children might hear some good news from afar country. This is not a mandatory class, this is America our children should have the option to take the class or not take the class. We have already let one unbelieving person take religion from our schools, its about time we Christians take a stand and support this class.

By candide

March 21, 2006 09:35 AM | Link to this

David: a better way to educate the ignorant Christians is to have bonfires all over the state of Georgia where the Bible is burned. I would be delighted to light the first one.

By Dale

March 21, 2006 09:36 AM | Link to this

I am a Christian minister and I object to this bill. The comments of bringing people to Jesus are one reason why. The schools’ job is not to bring people to Jesus, it is to educate ALL our children. And I would not want my child to take this class because who knows how it would be taught? I wouldn’t want him exposed to fundamentalist misinterpretations of scripture, and that certainly seems to be the norm around here. We’ll teach religion in church and at home. Let the schools teach what they are supposed to.

By Mimi

March 21, 2006 09:36 AM | Link to this

In response to comment by Mark King and the others who are saying they don’t want “religion shoved down their throat,” …I believe that is why it is an ELECTIVE, so it won’t be forced on any student. Also, I wonder how many Christian bashers have actually read a Bible?

By sandi

March 21, 2006 09:36 AM | Link to this

you have to take it on faith that your religion is the right one. so, this state will end up spending our tax dollars on religion classes and a trip to the supreme court. other religions will not let this go by nor should they. this country promises fredom of religion not just freedom of christianity. call me a liberal but that is how it is.i would have taken these electives in hs but other religions should be included. in fact, it would go a long way toward tolerence if we did learn more about our neighbor’s religion.

By McDonoughDawg

March 21, 2006 09:37 AM | Link to this

NO, NO, NO!

Churches, Private Schools, and the Home Environment are the place for this.

I’ve heard WAY too many interpretations of the Bible to have it being taught in Public Schools. Keep religion out of schools.

By Blessed

March 21, 2006 09:37 AM | Link to this

Believe it or not, some of the bible is in your childrens history book. So, it makes perfect sense to teach a class about it. What harm could it do. The worst it can do is change your childrens hearts and stop them from being so violent. It’s to many times I hear about shootings in school. It’s time we hear about the ALL MIGHTY GOD.

By sct

March 21, 2006 09:37 AM | Link to this

If the State of Georgia is going to do the work of the church maybe its time we end the tax exemptions the church enjoys.

By LHK

March 21, 2006 09:39 AM | Link to this

Classes in “The Bible as Literature” or “The Bible as History” are appropriate as college material or AP material, but I can hardly imagine this working in a high school environment… much less a high school elective environment. The teacher for such a class would need to be able to teach from a very scholarly, non-preaching perspective, and the students would need to accept that the class would involve questioning and analysis of Biblical tenets. Such a class could have value in teaching critical thinking skills and literary analysis, but I fear that a lot of these Bible electives wouldn’t be taught that way. And administrators probably have better things to do than sit in on a Bible class and make sure that it wasn’t veering into territory that only the church should cover.

Religion is not completely absent from our public schools anyway. When I was in high school, the largest club at school was the Fellowship of Christian Athletes, who had a prayer circle in the gym on Friday mornings. A friend of mine thought the FCA was not religious enough, and so started her own Bible study club after school. This was allowed because, technically, if a student wanted to start up, say, an atheists’ club, or a Buddhist club, he or she would be allowed to do that. Freedom of religion.

Furthermore, in my freshman year of highschool (1994), GA instituted the “moment of silent reflection” in the morning, during which students could choose to pray, sleep, finish homework, whatever. You can’t be stopped from praying in school, or bringing a Bible to school and reading it with your friends at lunch. However, a public school teacher can be stopped from leading a class in prayer. We often discussed the Bible in my AP history and English classes, but we approached it from an academic perspective.

By Tim

March 21, 2006 09:40 AM | Link to this

What’s wrong with this bill? Republicans turning an otherwise innocous piece of legislation into a first amendment battle. The fact is that if the bible is the primary or only textbook (and if the legislation calls it the textbook, expect the state to balk at buying a secondary) then the class cannot be objective. A study of the bible by using the bible is inherently a study of interpretation, not context. Context can only be studied by using objective secondary sources and non biblical primary sources. If parents want their kids to learn spiritual interpretations about the bible, send your kids to bible school or a christian school, but don’t expect a smooth running bible class in a public school system that doesn’t want it. It’s called Humanities People! Learning about Religion should not be overlooked, but stopping at the bible only promotes narrow-mindedness.

By Fluffy

March 21, 2006 09:41 AM | Link to this

If this law passes, it’s just one more spoke in the Christianity Wheel that’s not only turning, it’s beginning to spin out of control. Let’s pull the blinders off and recognize this for what it really is: another step towards the USA becoming a Christian Nation in direct opposition to Muslim Nations. No two ways about it. We are entrenched in a Holy War with the Muslim Nations and this is America’s answer to it.

It’s so sad that ALL wars have been fought for religious reasons. Religion should be peaceful and about spirituality. Instead it’s about land rights from some dusty old book and basically ruling the world. Sad, sad, sad.

By Jennifer

March 21, 2006 09:43 AM | Link to this

I attended a Christian school through to graduation and we, of course, had a mandatory Bible class where we learned Bible history and memorized verses- if I heard anything that I didn’t agree with, it only made me go and research for myself to find out what I believed. I understand the fairness in offering a religion class as an elective to have all religions presented- perhaps by local leaders in that religion- but a Bible class can be a great way to provide those children without stability or a belief system at home a way to seek truth for themselves.

By John

March 21, 2006 09:45 AM | Link to this

Lets think about this. Those of us who love the idea of kids being exposed to the scripture, do we realy want our school systems to be the ones doing it? What assurance do we have that this won’t only serve to cloud and confuse students as to who Jesus is and what Christians believe. We have no way to ensure that the Gospel will be taught correctly - in fact most teachers will probably approach the Bible as a history book or a work of literature. The fact remains that kids who aren’t interested in Christianity simply won’t take this elective course, and those who do may be led asstray by a secular attempt to present God’s Word.

By JJ Harper, IW

March 21, 2006 09:46 AM | Link to this

**Goodness! Many of you haven’t even read the proposal - apparently! First of all, whether or not you believe in the bible as the inspired word of God, most atheists conform to it’s solid foundation of earthly, moral values in many respects.

For example, most atheists believe that murdering, stealing, robbing, raping, having adulterous affairs, lying, homosexuality, and many other abominations are wrong. Where did they get that foundation? In other words, what do folks base the differences between right and wrong? It certainly isn’t from a Spider-man comic book!

Think about it. Our schools (our children) are going to ** in a hand-basket because there is no teaching of moral values inside or outside of the home. If we don’t stop for a bit and begin to take a look at what is happening to this country, there won’t be any need to teach “reading, writing, and arithmetic!” Our schools have become safe havens for crime, illegal drugs, and premarital sex.

We have a choice: either get back to the “basics,” or just turn the schools in to mortuaries! Previous post at 9:01 AM. AWKKKK, Inc.**

By The72John

March 21, 2006 09:46 AM | Link to this

All of you religious fanatic nutjobs realize that this course is teaching about the historical impact of the Bible on Western Civilization, right? It’s not an indoctrination course. It doesn’t teach mythology as truth. It’s not to “bring kids to Jesus” or any of the other crap y’all are spouting.

By sam

March 21, 2006 09:49 AM | Link to this

I believe the class for a elective is the way to go. The young men and women can decide as a junior are a senior in high school. I say let our future decide what to do. In thirty years the future is in their hands. I hope they make the right choices.We here to only guide. The 17 and 18 have all lot of choices about their future. Let offer it and let them decide

By Julie

March 21, 2006 09:49 AM | Link to this

When I was in school, we said the Lord’s Prayer every morning. With rare exception, students were respectful to their teachers, and you most definitely did not hear the filthy language that you hear from most kids today. Teenagers did not carry guns to school or go around shooting people for no reason other than because their messed up heads told them to. The reason kids are the way they are today is because there is no moral structure to their lives. The majority of parents don’t spend any time with their kids, and do not make or enforce, any rules for moral behavior. They just shuffle their kids off to the mall or wherever to get them out of their hair and then act so surprised when they get into trouble. If kids had the chance, and the choice, to learn about the Bible (which happens to be filled with moral examples), we just might see some improvement in their attitudes and their actions. Yet there are all these negative comments from people bashing the idea of an elective Bible class in school. What a world we live in today! I for one wholeheartedly support the idea of an elective Bible class in school.

By genghiz1a

March 21, 2006 09:51 AM | Link to this

What happens to the student—-grades,exams,class particapation who is NOT a member of the class prevailing viewpoint, or is NOT a Christian? Will they be silenced, flunked for their interpartions? What about the student who takes the course to further their—or their parents own adgenda? How about the kid who is a Satan worshiper? Believe me, they will register.

Parental pressure on the school and teachers is going to be hot and heavy.

Only a diehart will take on that task.

Bible was an elective in GA schools as late as 1958 when I left. I was a “Christain”,, and was heavily criticised and presured because I wasn’t a community prevailing “hard-shell Bapist”

NO ONE, much less a developiong child needs that confusion and pressure.

The freedom to worship—or not to worship—-is a fundamental right, and requires the right to privacy—otherwise you have NO freedom—-its just the state’s religion.

NO ONE can agree; that’s why we have separation of church and state: TO PROTECT THE RELIGIOUS VIEWS OF ALL OF US.

By Jay

March 21, 2006 09:51 AM | Link to this

There are so many versions of the “Bible” that the difficulty of selecting the relevant texts in the first place is some indication of how bad an idea this is. Schools already stretched to the limits cannot effectively or fairly cover this waterfront. Bible study (for all the different bibles) is best left to the religious organizations and the seminaries and colleges.

By Barbara

March 21, 2006 09:53 AM | Link to this

yes and only 1 word Amen

By Linda

March 21, 2006 09:53 AM | Link to this

It should be taught, preferably as a requisite class. This Country was built on the belief in God. The most important outcome of teaching the class is that it will open the eyes of students and educate them with respect to the choices they have for living their lives - choosing to believe or choosing not to believe.

By John N.

March 21, 2006 09:53 AM | Link to this

Ok Julie, let’s go back to those “good ol’ days” when the school day started with the Lords Prayer.

And while we’re at it do you want African Americans can go back to being second class (or worse) citizens and women going back to being the property of the husband?

By Lee

March 21, 2006 09:54 AM | Link to this

All this is is election year pandering by our elected officials so they can go back to their constituents and tell them “I voted to bring Christ back into the schools.” In reality, schools will be forced to include other religions or face lawsuits. The end result will be a lot of tax dollars going into the pockets of lawyers instead of paying a teacher or buying a textbook.

Bottom line, my child will learn about the Bible from me by sitting beside me in Sunday school. My child will learn about morality by watching and listening to me.

What I want from the schools is to teach them Reading, ‘Riting, and ‘Rithmetic. I think I can handle the rest….

By jimmyrgt

March 21, 2006 09:54 AM | Link to this

What a terrible idea. Two of the corner stones of this country are freedom of religion and seperation of church and state. This violates number 2 for obvious reasons, by paying for religious education with tax dollars. This also violates number 1 because this will create even more of a christian bias in PUBLIC school, making it more difficult for students of other religions to fit in and be accepted. If you want bible study go to church or send your kids to private school. I hope if this passes, it makes it to the supreme court and gets obliterated so completely that it never has a chance of coming back.

By Child of God

March 21, 2006 09:54 AM | Link to this

I’m a young lady who not to long got out of school. If you look around you will see children as young as 2 running the streets. Never getting a chance to hear about God. They grow up with just one parent in the home who is struggling to keep a job.

Our children are the future they need God. This country has fell away from God. In the bible it states a nation who forgets God shall be turned into hell. Just look around you. Yes, the teaching does start at home but, what good is it if we can’t allow the word of God to reach people and change they’re lives.

There is only one God and ONE way and that’s through JESUS CHRIST. People need to know there is hope. If you people don’t see that now, I pray that one day you to will get to know God. God said if you are ashame of him he will be ashame of you. God is love. So, teach the children Love

By Get Real

March 21, 2006 09:56 AM | Link to this

Of course Bible classes don’t offer any other religion…it’s called BIBLE CLASS. If other religions want to have their own elective class, go for it. But this is the United States, and this country was founded on Christianity…not on the Quran, etc. Get over it.

By Chris

March 21, 2006 09:57 AM | Link to this

This is so, so wrong in so many ways. My blood is boiling right now, and I was brought up going to church every Sunday. Should this pass, it will be thrown out by the Supreme Court in an instant. Church and the public school does not Constitutional mix. If you want your kids to be taught the bible send them to a private school or take them to Sunday school.

By Amazed (Independent Woman)

March 21, 2006 09:58 AM | Link to this

Well, if we allow the Bible - I can’t wait to see everyone’s reaction to the teaching of the Koran as an elective. If you allow the Bible as an elective, you can’t deny the teaching of the Koran or other religious books.

I think we just opened up a can of worms. But, more like rattle snakes.

By Get Real

March 21, 2006 09:58 AM | Link to this

I would rather live my life like God DOES exist and die to find out he DOESN’T than to live my life like he DOESN’T exist and die to find out that he DOES.

By Brannon

March 21, 2006 09:59 AM | Link to this

I think it’s a great idea. So many children are raised in homes that do not stress the importance of knowing Christ. Their parents don’t care to take them to church and help them to know the Lord. These classes would help to reach those children. I think that just because parents don’t care enough to have their kids in church and to teach them about Jesus that they should have to suffer because of this. I think these classes would be a wonderful idea. In our society today Christ is being pushed out of everything. Maybe that’s why our economy is the way it is. Maybe that’s why we have some of the other problems we do as a nation and as a world. We need to get Christ back into everything we do. He is the only way!!!

By Love

March 21, 2006 09:59 AM | Link to this

The72John,

I rebuke you in the name of Jesus. How dare you call the word of God crap. I pray you find Jesus really soon. God loves even you.

By Rob

March 21, 2006 10:00 AM | Link to this

A course on the literary content of the Bible would be a welcomed part of a full exploration of the roots of modern literature. It would help to make many authors’ allusions to biblical themes more easily recognized and understood by readers. It should take a place similar to the mythology and drama of ancient Greece, for example, or the Book of the Dead, Koran, or Bhagavad Gita. However, does anybody really believe that is the intent of the Georgia law? This is just another underhanded tactic to use the public education system to inculcate Christian religion by those who believe that America should be a Christian nation. If we send any of the legislators who voted for this attack on American liberty to Saudia Arabia for “interrogation”, you may be sure they will admit it, too. Short of that, they’ll stick to their story.

By Laurie

March 21, 2006 10:01 AM | Link to this

YES! It is a great idea and it is about time. Being held as an elective should not offend anyone. If they don’t want it, don’t sign up for it. Our kids need as much guidance today as they can possibly get.

By sarah

March 21, 2006 10:01 AM | Link to this

i can’t wait to see the disclaimer that would end up on a sticker inside the cover of the bible/textbook.

By buck

March 21, 2006 10:02 AM | Link to this

This will taught like a sunday school class. Teachers will know no other way of doing so. Any questioning or critical analysis will be met with disapproval, because the teachers simply won’t be accustomed to such practices when it comes to the bible.

By AtlantaEducator

March 21, 2006 10:03 AM | Link to this

The72John has it right, though it could have been put a bit more respectfully. This course would not be a devotional class based on the Bible. That sort of thing is obviously best left for churches. This course would be teaching about the history of the Bible, and open to discussion of cultural/historical issues that lead to the Bible as we know it today.

I am certainly not opposed to the class as an elective, and as a former religion major, I’d gladly teach it if I agreed with the curriculum.

By John D

March 21, 2006 10:06 AM | Link to this

Georgia is going to be the laughing stock of the thinking world one again.

By ROBIN

March 21, 2006 10:06 AM | Link to this

I THINK IT’S A GOOD IDEA. GOD OFFERS US ALL A CHOICE TO CHOOSE HIM OR ANOTHER god…HOPEFULLY THE BIBLE WILL BE TAUGHT TO THOSE WILLING SOULS OUT THERE. TRUE, ALL HOMES DO NOT TEACH OR UNDERSTAND THE BIBLE AND THIS COULD REACH THE HEARTS OF MANY….CHANGE A MIND, CHANGE A HEART,CHANGE THE WORLD & AMERICA NEEDS IT!!!…IF YOU DON’T KNOW…LEARN IT!!!

By genghiz1a

March 21, 2006 10:07 AM | Link to this

What happens to the student—-grades,exams,class particapation who is NOT a member of the class prevailing viewpoint, or is NOT a Christian? Will they be silenced, flunked for their interpartions? What about the student who takes the course to further their—or their parents own adgenda? How about the kid who is a Satan worshiper? Believe me, they will register.

Parental pressure on the school and teachers is going to be hot and heavy.

Only a diehart will take on that task.

Bible was an elective in GA schools as late as 1958 when I left. I was a “Christain”,, and was heavily criticised and presured because I wasn’t a community prevailing “hard-shell Bapist”

NO ONE, much less a developiong child needs that confusion and pressure.

The freedom to worship—or not to worship—-is a fundamental right, and requires the right to privacy—otherwise you have NO freedom—-its just the state’s religion.

NO ONE can agree; that’s why we have separation of church and state: TO PROTECT THE RELIGIOUS VIEWS OF ALL OF US.

By Mom

March 21, 2006 10:07 AM | Link to this

What are you afraid your child might learn? Love? Respect? The Ten Commandments? Oh, that would be terrible, wouldn’t it? As someone already said, this country was founded on Christianity, not Islam, Judaism, Buddism, etc. Don’t like it? You know where the door is. They aren’t forcing these kids to take the classes, they are offering them to those that CHOOSE to take them. Personally, I think it would be a good idea for all to take the classes. Learning about the goodness of Christ might help a lot of these little wayward thugs that we are producing these days…since Madeline O’Hare’s days.

By Eric

March 21, 2006 10:08 AM | Link to this

Certainly it should be allowed. Provided the school would be 100% willing to allow an elective on studies of the Koran, the Bhagavad Gita or Veda or Upanishads, the Talmud, the Tao-te-ching, The Analects, and the Five Classics. If they are not, then they should reconsider they idea of ‘sneakin’ Christianity into school under the “guise’ of ‘literary studies’.

We must be careful not to inject one line of thinking into our education system, regardless of what that line of thinking is. If we continue for force Christianity into schools at the expense of other religions, we’ll end up with what we are facing in the middle east, madrasas teaching only one think, and that all other things are false and worth of destruction.

Do we want educated, free thinking, creative, entrepreneurial students coming out of hour schools or do we want closed minded, singular thinking, religious driven zealots who believe the only goal is life is to protect their narrow minded lifestyle?

Signed

A free thinking Christian

By AndyM.

March 21, 2006 10:08 AM | Link to this

Will the Bible course count for science credit?

By Child of God

March 21, 2006 10:10 AM | Link to this

TAMIKA, I will remember you in prayer tonight. You apparently have alot of anger built up inside of you. Just give it to God. He will never mistreat you are talk to you nasty like you are doing his children. God loves you

By Joe

March 21, 2006 10:11 AM | Link to this

I am sorry if I might offend anyone reading my little thoughts, but our nation was build by Christians. We help every other nation on this planet no matter what their beliefs are. Why are we so stupid as a nation, All Islamic nations the core of everything is ( ISLAM ) period, its infused in ( SCHOOLS ) and everything else in their country. So are other religions in other countries. BUT only this nation has a problem with GOD, why?. Is it because others come to our nation and turn their noses up at Christians, that is fine you have a choice in what your beliefs are. But we believe in Jesus Christ, period. If you don’t you can leave and go back were you came from, so as to praise your god whom ever he may be. GOD needs to be back in schools, and for the folks that are beefing about their tax dollars ( WAKE UP )if this is the only thing that you’re gripping about you’re fools. ARE WE TO BE THE ONLY GODLESS NATION ON THIS PLANET?, because that is were we are heading. P.S. ( If America was an Islamic nation, do you think that the crap that is being pulled with Christians could be pulled with Muslims?). Do you think that you could move to a Muslim country and tell them that you are suing them because you don’t want region in their schools?. Wake up, Christians stand up for what is right, stand up for what is needed in schools, not just here but all over our nation.

By SET

March 21, 2006 10:15 AM | Link to this

The bible thumpers had better understand this: The laws you use to impose your religion in publis schools will be used against you in the future when whites are a minority. Look at your demographic trends for the future. Since both parties have thrown the USA borders open - new people have come in who reproduce at a dramatically higher rate than the “old Americans” and they concentrate in colonies within the USA.

If you can impose one religion in your schools they can impose their religion in the public schools they dominate. You will have American School students reading from the Koran every morning in various colonies within the USA.

Or, for example, remember what happened when a single religious cult from India - the Rahaaneesh (sp?) deliberately selected Altelope OR to invade and colonize. They imported cult members from across the USA, moved into Antelope and took over the city government including the police department. Before it ended a RN who was a member of the cult sprayed bacteria on the salad bar at a popular restaurant in town just before an election in a vain attempt to affect the white turnout and to keep voting control for the cult. The leader- the “Bagwan” was arrested and eventually deported as was the leadership of the cult.

There is a reason the US Constitution requires separation of church and state. The more the religious zealots try to force violation of this rule the more you embolden your invading colonists and their anchor babies (and every other religious sect) to believe it’s their turn next.

I am an athiest. I believe that these religions are mythology. I believe that the religious I deal with are addicted to the rapture they work themselves into so they can refuse to take care of themselves and their families here and now. I have no intention of “teaching” that as a doctrine in the public schools because these beliefs sort themselves out over a lifetime and I don’t want a religious civil war when we are about to experience “other problems” in the country.

If you attempt to cram your religion down my throat in any government setting I will go from ignoring your own excercise of religion to openly warring with your religion. You are far better off doing what the Mormons or other succesful (ie expanding) religions are doing. Push it person to person socially and not try to engage in a public fight you can’t win.

If you try to accost people with your mythology you will see your religion publicly mocked in the schools and in your face. That shouldn’t be happening now because everybody is supposed to be leaving everyone else alone religiously.

I’m not singling out any particular religion. I don’t want Mormonism in the Utah public schools, Santeria in New Orleans Elementry Schools, or Hinduism taught in Orange County California. Religion is for the home and churches and it is supposed to be safe there. You try to install it in public life and your grandchildren will go to school and find out they are getting a new religion.

Hell, we have a deadly fight on our hands just keeping English in the schools here in CA. We now have Driver’s License tests and voter ballots being handed out here in Spanish.

Be careful what you wish for.

Brave New World.

By Scott.....and a teacher

March 21, 2006 10:15 AM | Link to this

I totally support this movement. To those who argue that their “tax dollars” are being used…..so what? My tax dollars are going to teach evolution (which is STILL a theory) and I have learned to deal with it. To those who think the Koran or other beliefs should get equal time…may I remind you that this is considered a CHRISTIAN nation founded on this very book that you desire to keep out of our schools! To those who want morals taught at home….I teach in a public school and for a large portion of our student body it is obvious that they are NOT being taught at home. This will be an ELECTIVE class. Nobody is forcing anybody to take it. If there is no interest, it will not be offered.

If you don’t like living in this CHRISTIAN nation, I believe there are other options for your residence.

By concerned citizen

March 21, 2006 10:16 AM | Link to this

Sure it’s okay if it’s an elective course. However, if you offer a Christian Bible course you also have to make arrangements for courses in the Koran, the Torah, any Buddhist or Hindu scripture or any number of major religions. The problem here is to offer one, requires a public institution to offer all. And with the strained resources already thin at public schools, where do they come up with the money for these? That’s why religious teachings are reserved for home. This is just a veiled attempt at Christianizing this society even further in order to bring on what Christians believe is Armageddon. These people don’t want to avoid conflict with the other religions, they want to meet it head on. Much like Pat Robertson and his incendiary comments. Go form your own radical country, America belongs to free people.

By Lou

March 21, 2006 10:17 AM | Link to this

Georgia has found a new way to sink even lower on the food chain of education. Forget about the “separation of religion and state” thingey. What blows my mind is that parents are actually supportive of the State teaching religion. The State can’t even teach them to read and write! What kind of a mess do you think the State will make out of religion? We have a 60% graduation rate - and, we’re worried about teaching Sunday School material - what a joke….Several times in the past few months, some Georgia teacher has been on the news for sexually abusing students. My personal opinion is that we have more predators in our pool of teachers that just haven’t been caught yet. Imagine such a predator using the power of religion on these kids. Good grief…what a mess. Parents - if you can afford it - put them in a private school.

By TH

March 21, 2006 10:17 AM | Link to this

There was a time, when there was no classroom. People were taught how to read and write in a religious setting. The Bible was used for a tool to live by. Why are we bickering over something that can help everyone understand the nature of God. Whatever Religion that has been created by man. We should have the common sense to know, there could only be one creator and I am sure he is truly sorry for the way we have handled this World. Lets not get carried away with intellect, as many before has and you can see that the state we are in now will soon lead to the same destruction. Whatever Religion you profess just try to do what is right. You can know what is right by your own conscious!

By Cristie

March 21, 2006 10:18 AM | Link to this

Yes! It’s about time we stand up for the word of GOD! It’s finally good to see us making progress in getting the bible and just GOD out to others!! Let our kids make the choice if they want to take it or not let’s not make the decision for them.

By Rick

March 21, 2006 10:18 AM | Link to this

I am totally against the teaching of only one religion in public schools. Due to the overall stupidity of our elected officials this will probably happen anyway. What would be amusing to me would be if the people teaching our kids about the Bible did so from a Catholic or a Jewish POV. I’m sure all of the Baptists out there wouldn’t have an objection to this. It is the same God after all. Can you imagine the moral outrage from all the parents who are too lazy to educate their own kids at home about whatever form of Christianity that they believe in? Maybe it would do the kids good to learn how God used to be a vengeful and spiteful entity and according to some wanted to have all of the non-believers killed or converted. Sound familiar to anyone?

By FourEyes

March 21, 2006 10:19 AM | Link to this

There’s nothing wrong with this class.

For detractors who want to yell separation of church and state, remember this is a class not only about the bible, but also about the culture and history of the times. There will be a curriculum set out on how the class can be taught and what can be included. Calm down. It’s a book of collected stories written by men who lived in a desert thousands of years a go that has been written and rewritten to fit an agenda. It’s not like it’s verbatim from the heavens. Besides, there shouldn’t be anything wrong with discussing God or Allah or anybody else out there, but the endorsement of one as superior over the rest.

For people who want to whine about how it should be a comparative class, please let us take a lesson from the great Darwin: evolution. Sooner or later, it’s gonna happen here in Georgia schools. People will want their children taught lessons that provoke critical thinking and the pursuit of truth, and not perfect test scores. This class opens the doors to comparative religious discussion in public schools, and even elective courses soley devoted to other religious texts in context of the times they were written. At the end of the day, what is wrong with spiritual beliefs?

And please do remember you can always vote your elected official who voted yay/nay out of office.

By Granny

March 21, 2006 10:20 AM | Link to this

Some of you act as if the Bible studies class is being forced upon unwilling students. This is exactly opposite of what it is meant to accomplish. I feel if a child wishes to sign up for the class (for whatever reason) they should be allowed. Like any other class, if they are there to disrupt, they are asked to leave. You are forgetting who the teacher is and who the student is. Even MORE reason to take the class. R-E-S-P-E-C-T!

By The72John

March 21, 2006 10:20 AM | Link to this

Based on comments from other posters, here are some suggestions about what we should be teaching instead of this.

“The bible was the first book ever written. All other religions have pulled from the bible.”

History.

It’s to many times I hear about shootings in school. It’s time we hear about the ALL MIGHTY GOD.

English

For example, most atheists believe that murdering, stealing, robbing, raping, having adulterous affairs, lying, homosexuality, and many other abominations are wrong. Where did they get that foundation? In other words, what do folks base the differences between right and wrong? It certainly isn’t from a Spider-man comic book!

Ethics

8When I was in school, we said the Lord’s Prayer every morning. With rare exception, students were respectful to their teachers, and you most definitely did not hear the filthy language that you hear from most kids today. Teenagers did not carry guns to school or go around shooting people for no reason other than because their messed up heads told them to. The reason kids are the way they are today is because there is no moral structure to their lives.*

Critical Thinking

By concerned citizen

March 21, 2006 10:21 AM | Link to this

Hey Joe. I was born here and I don’t think America should be turned into one big Sunday School. So your theory on me going back where I came from is ridiculous and biggoted. You think everyone who believes in separation of church and state is some foreigner with a different religion. Why do you think countries like Iran or Saudi Arabia are in such a sh*tty state? It’s because they’ve used religion to control the population. And it’d be no different here if Christians were allowed to do what they’d like to do with public schools or television/radio, media etc. Separation of church and state advocates are all that stands between a free U.S. and simply being the Christian Iran. If you truly believe in your message, you wouldn’t care about this world, you’d be more concerned with the next world. But you’re simply a pretend Christian.

By Norman Thomson

March 21, 2006 10:21 AM | Link to this

I am opposed to this discrimination based upon religion. First of all there are no qualified teachers for such courses and, second it should be world religions (and other myths) as there is discrimination even as to what “faiths” are relgions, etc. Traditional religions of indigenous Americans and Africans are called myths. So what qualifies as a religion is entirely based upon cultural biases. The Bible should be taught in Church sponsored actitities and not our schools. The legislature is showing its deep seated bigotry based on religion which is unconstituional.

By Rick

March 21, 2006 10:22 AM | Link to this

Joe, I really hope you have a very dry sense of humor and are kidding about this. america was founded by Deists, not Christians. The clause about seperation of Cchurch and state is in the Constitution for a reason. Take the time to read some American history.

By Erin

March 21, 2006 10:24 AM | Link to this

This goes compeltely against the separation of church and state. I’m a Christian and I do not want the government to teach MY children the Bible THEIR way. Which version will it be? Baptist? Catholic? Jewish? Religion should stay out of public schools.

By Jay

March 21, 2006 10:26 AM | Link to this

Our Country is in Desperate need of Spiritaul Guidance! “Be Like Nike”

By Child of God

March 21, 2006 10:27 AM | Link to this

Tell me something Mr.John N,

Why do you think Jesus came. He came to save the WORLD from their sins.
Sure, you need alone time with God. But, their are children and people who needs ours prayers as well. They need to know there is a God who can and will change lives. I’m going to tell everyone I come across about Jesus and if they need prayer I will pray then and there. I will remember you in prayer as well and I will pray for out loud.

By Bill

March 21, 2006 10:27 AM | Link to this

When you the thoughts of everyone on this board that thinks this bible class is a good idea, you really get a firm grip on why Georgia does so poorly when it comes to education. This state is full of IGNORANT people. If you thumpers only realized how dumb you sound. But that’s what freedom is all about, it includes the right to be wrong and stupid. You are taking full advantage of that right. This atheist says “god bless you all.”

By concerned citizen

March 21, 2006 10:28 AM | Link to this

Four eyes, why can’t you teach Bible study at your house? This isn’t about offering more education to YOUR children. It’s about trying to reach OTHER PEOPLE’S CHILDREN. That’s not your right, nor is it the purpose of the public school system. If these students really are interested in learning more about religion, they are welcome to find out about it at home or at some church of their choosing. IT IS NOT YOUR RIGHT TO FORCE THIS ON STUDENTS. IT IS NOT THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEM TO TEACH CHILDREN ABOUT RELIGION. GET THAT THRU YOUR THICK SKULLS.

By Mary

March 21, 2006 10:29 AM | Link to this

YES YES YES!!!!!!!!! Iam a Christian. I am not ashamed to admit it. I think it should be an elective…. that way it is Not “forced” on anyone.

By jj

March 21, 2006 10:29 AM | Link to this

Now every relegion will be screaming to become an elective in school and how can you discriminate at that point, “it’s not fair to teach one relegion over another” is what they will say, which I could agree with. Just don’t let it start. Church is where relegion is taught not a public school, I went to Sunday school not Bible studies at a public school. They already said no to Creative Design, give it up, stop trying to peddle relegion in public schools.

By The72John

March 21, 2006 10:30 AM | Link to this

Oops - here’s one more.

If you don’t like living in this CHRISTIAN nation, I believe there are other options for your residence.

Civics and Government

By Randy

March 21, 2006 10:30 AM | Link to this

Again the constittuion doesn’t call for separation of chruch and state. Let’s do the bible courses and teach some morals in school(something kids actually need to know).

By genghiz1a

March 21, 2006 10:32 AM | Link to this

How about really causing trouble and requiring Basic Logic and Critical Thinkings as a graduation requirement? It used to be until the State removed it from the list. Did it interfer with politicans lying?

By Not Overly Religous But..

March 21, 2006 10:32 AM | Link to this

30 years ago, I took Bible Lit in high school and enjoyed it immensely. I didn’t know what to expect but I found it was not limited to theology but also took certain accounts of geography and early civilization. Why should anyone have a problem with elective bible classes? And with Christian being the majority faith of our country (well over 90%), why should the voice of a few with ulterior motives be allowed to keep the majority from pursuing what they want. In a democracy, isn’t that what it’s about? Vote and majority rules? This crap began with atheism but has now been perpetuated because of the FEW muslim students in the schools. I am so disgusted in all the bending and patronizing for muslims just so they aren’t offended. Well I am offended. Most christians are offended. But we seem to be the only faith not allowed to have a voice anymore.

By Teresa

March 21, 2006 10:35 AM | Link to this

Mom, I think your attitude proves that Bible classes are a bad idea. There is no room in this melting-pot of a great country for closed-mindedness. I refuse to believe that God would create such diversity in His world without reason.

I would love to see a World Religions class offered in the schools. Maybe if we understood each other a little better there would be less strife.

By Randy K.

March 21, 2006 10:36 AM | Link to this

My daughter goes to a big high school and she says almost every kid is a Christian. Let’s go with the overwhelming majority(Christian)and teach the classes. We can make it an elective. I think this will give an opportunity to the kids who’s parents didn’t take them to church and who really want to get to know the creator of the universe and get right with God.

By Denisse

March 21, 2006 10:36 AM | Link to this

I think it is about time that we bring back the bible into our daily lives especially the lives of our young adults. I feel it should also be in Elementary and Middle schools.

By Mike

March 21, 2006 10:36 AM | Link to this

No, for two reasons.

By Brison

March 21, 2006 10:39 AM | Link to this

Bibles BANNED for CHILDREN in SCHOOL, but ALLOWED for CONVICTS in PRISON?? That plan is backwards.

Why not allow Bible studies for students who elect to take the course. These students will learn about ancient history at the very least and perhaps some parables illustrating guidelines for thinking beyond themselves and becoming a contributing member to their community & society.

The uniformed do not know that the Old & New Testaments of the Bible are historic accounts of humanity, kings & leaders who shaped civilization, and the birth of Judaism and Christianity. Beautiful ancient poems and horrific stories have been the subject of movies and books for years. Scholars have used depictions from the Bible to solve archeological mysteries.

By GOB

March 21, 2006 10:40 AM | Link to this

“I think it would be a great ideal. This country was built upon the teachings of the Bible.”

No, actually it wasnt. The country was founded on the idea of individual freedom.

By Mike K

March 21, 2006 10:42 AM | Link to this

If we’re going to have a Bible class, then let’s tell the whole truth about it. Teach the kids about the two conflicting creation stories in Genesis, how there are a dozen of older flood myths than Noah’s, and about the multiple sources in the first books of the OT.

Make sure they’re taught that there is no archelogical data supporting the existence of Moses and an exodus from Egypt. Have them point out scripture that shows the early Hebrews weren’t even monotheistic, and that they lived in and around Caanan the whole time. Also make sure to show how vindictive the OT God was-I’m sure they’d like to know that the God Christians worship had bears kill children because they made fun of someone.

When teaching the NT, make sure the students understand Jesus is only mentioned in the Bible and not in any histories written at that time (Josephus doesn’t count-it’s been shown to be a later addition by a Christian scribe). Have the teachers point out the obvious similiarites to Mithras, a popular deity in the area. Also have them talk about the problems with the various birth stories (e.g. census was taken after the death of Herod). And who exactly was at the tomb?

And for those who like to claim that this is a “Christian” nation-you might want to read the Constitution. There is no mention of God in it. You also might want to do a search for the Treaty of Tripoli, where it is stated that “As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.” That was signed into law in 1797 after unanimous approval by Congress.

By concerned citizen

March 21, 2006 10:43 AM | Link to this

Here’s a civics lesson for you. Why did the pilgrims come to the new world? Because they were being persecuted for practicing a different form of religion from that of the state religion imposed by the Kind of England. Because of that reason, the Constitution has a separation of church and state that says the government will neither endorse one religion above all others and will not denounce any religion. And because state and federal taxes are collected from every citizen and given to the public school system, these school systems are not allowed to endorse nor denounce any religion. The pilgrims came here to be free to do as they saw fit, without government intervention. And the founding fathers put that into the Constitution to honor their search for religious freedom. You people act as if denying a bible study course in a public school is the same as outlawing all religion. Everyone is free to seek religious enlightenment. Just not on my tax dollar.

By Fluff

March 21, 2006 10:45 AM | Link to this

Go Teresa! Finally someone gets it! I took a World Religions class in college and it was one of the most informative, elightening classes I’ve ever taken. I learned about ALL religions and TOLERANCE. Unfortunately for the Bible crowd, I got my heart back from Jesus and learned to grow my own spirituality. Never looked back, never been happier!

By LetsBFair

March 21, 2006 10:46 AM | Link to this

I’d like to propose a High School class that teaches Satanism through the works of Allister Crowley and the Necronomicon. I will teach the students about how they are the most important ones and that sense gratification is the true path to enlightenment. I will explain to them that no matter what they do and no matter what happens, if they come out on top, it was well worth all of their effort. We will listen to music from Led Zepplin and Iron Maiden. Class will be concluded with the ritual decapitation of a newborn, where we all, as a class, will drink the blood and feast on the flesh. HAIL SATAN!

By LetsBFair

March 21, 2006 10:48 AM | Link to this

…NOW WASN’T MY LAST POST ABOUT AS RIDICULOUS AS TEACHING THE BIBLE IN STATE RUN SCHOOLS???

By Zac

March 21, 2006 10:48 AM | Link to this

Not Overly Religous But.. Your thoughts deeply trouble me. The underlying justification of the bill of rights and the constitution is the freedom and equality of individuals and protection of those rights from an over zealous majority. That is why the judicial system exists. To prevent the majority from infringing upon the rights of minority. You are free to think the way you do, I am so glad to know our founding fathers did not.

By John

March 21, 2006 10:49 AM | Link to this

Whether we like it or not, religion is present in schools - we just don’t call it that. What we are realy talking about are people’s “world views” or belief systems. Everyone has one, and they may be based on anything from Atheism to Christianity to Socialism. The complete exclusion of the typical religions (Islam, Christianity, etc.) from schools simply encourages those world views that are atheistic or universalistic in nature. I think what most of those who have posted here in favor of this law are saying is that they are tired of the Secularist control that has prevailed in our schools for the past several decades. I don’t know that this new class would do anything to change that, but its an interesting debate.

By mike b

March 21, 2006 10:49 AM | Link to this

The last time I checked, there’s not a “Bible” section on the SAT. The only way a Bible class would be legitimate is if it were taught by an atheist. If the religious types would be willing to let THAT happen, perhaps I wouldn’t be so violently opposed to the idea. But there’s about as much chance of that as there is getting two animals of every kind on a boat.

By GOB

March 21, 2006 10:49 AM | Link to this

“I rebuke you in the name of Jesus.”

Maybe they could use this instead of detention in schools too. Or they could spray you with holy water.

By Brad

March 21, 2006 10:50 AM | Link to this

To all those against teaching the Bible in schools it it clear that most of you have never studied it. To believers we already know about all of you. The Bible clearly explains that we will be hated by the world because of Christ. It is really pretty basic- you are either with him or against him. Read and study your Bible, and then make your choice. Just make sure you can live with that choice for eternity. I Choose him, and Pray for you.

By FourEyes

March 21, 2006 10:52 AM | Link to this

concerned citizen, you obviously didn’t read my whole entry. It’s was positively hysterical.

I don’t teach the bible at home. I don’t go to church and I don’t have kids. Even if I did, I wouldn’t care and would probably endorse the interest if they were learning about the bible at a public school. After all, they can elect to take religious courses at public colleges, and those classes are funded with public dollars. What’s the difference?

And what’s in a name, really? ELECTIVE course. Kind of like ELECTIVE surgery or ELECTIVE termination of pregnancy. It’s about choice. Nobody is forcing anything on anyone. Make yourself about to be a victim why don’t ya.

Furthermore, I don’t need to get anything through my thick skull. I have one of the best educations on the planet. A CATHOLIC education. Top that.

By GOB

March 21, 2006 10:53 AM | Link to this

“I am sorry if I might offend anyone reading my little thoughts, but our nation was build by Christians….Why are we so stupid as a nation?”

Asked and answered all in one post.

By The72John

March 21, 2006 10:53 AM | Link to this

Maybe they could use this instead of detention in schools too. Or they could spray you with holy water.

I lol’d.

By Glenn

March 21, 2006 10:54 AM | Link to this

Why not teach Bible study in class ? Since the people who support this law already have the school system baby sitting their children , They can also have the school system teach them religion. If only the school system could do all the parenting for you . And most of you on the right wing side still can justify why a trashman makes more than a public school teacher , incredible .

By Adam

March 21, 2006 10:54 AM | Link to this

Children should be taught good behavioral skills by their parents and have them reinforced by teachers. Religion should be taught and learned at home, church or other private places,not by any state or public school system.

By Michael

March 21, 2006 10:55 AM | Link to this

Of course, better than the hip hop government education on stealing and vadalism they receive now. We need more choices. It’s bad enough that it’s a government school, if the schools can have sex ed, drug ed, or thumping ed, why not?

By high school teacher

March 21, 2006 10:55 AM | Link to this

Has anyone noticed that for the most part, teachers are declining to comment on this issue today? With the exception of a few, that is.

By concerned citizen

March 21, 2006 10:55 AM | Link to this

I think instead of wasting tax dollars on bible courses, we need to spend the money on a copy of the constitution for every single American in addition to the other writings of the founding fathers that describe how they WERE NOT FOUNDING THE GOVERNMENT ON CHRISTIAN IDEALS. Because it is very apparent from the ridicuolous musings of some of the people here that they were asleep, or had some Christian zealot interpreting the Constitution for them in school. Hey Christians, try reading some REAL historical documents for a change instead of the historical fiction of the Bible. You don’t even know the author of most of those books contained therein. Plus it was translated by church leaders who wanted to alter the teachings to their benefit and edited for content. Have you ever thought, who exactly decided which books make up the Bible? What man was endowed with such grace as to decide what was God’s word and what was not? Read the Song of Songs. That’s a pretty graphic poem about sex. I bet you’d never quote those verses in church without making the whole lot of you blush. You don’t even know what you’re thumping, that’s the real comedy here.

By Tom

March 21, 2006 10:56 AM | Link to this

Men cannot decide one’s fate, only God can do that. Believe or be gone!

By michael

March 21, 2006 10:57 AM | Link to this

What good is the hip hop government education? We can have sex ed, drug ed, diversity ed but no bible ed? Get real, we need more choices.

By Robert

March 21, 2006 10:58 AM | Link to this

No. Teach school not religion. We have more than enought churches to try and convert everyone.

By The72John

March 21, 2006 10:59 AM | Link to this

To all those against teaching the Bible in schools it it clear that most of you have never studied it. To believers we already know about all of you. The Bible clearly explains that we will be hated by the world because of Christ. It is really pretty basic- you are either with him or against him. Read and study your Bible, and then make your choice. Just make sure you can live with that choice for eternity. I Choose him, and Pray for you.

Ah yes - the final defense of the religious fanatic. Summed up - if you don’t agree with me, it’s because you haven’t read the Bible. If you had, you would believe as I do. It doesn’t matter - we’re supposed to be persecuted anyway, because we are special, but you’ll all see one day!

There’s probably some fist-shaking going on here, too.

By Not Overly Religous But..

March 21, 2006 11:01 AM | Link to this

Zack, hence the word “elective”. It is a choice. How is that infringing on the minority? Indeed and to the contrary, it is the other way around. The minority does not want religion in schools and so be it, says they. Our founding fathers also built a nation “under God”. Even American currency continues to be stamped with “In God We Trust”. You fail to recognize that while the constitution separates church and state, it’s contradictory in so many facets of American history and landmarks, all created by these same founding fathers.

By E. Lewis

March 21, 2006 11:02 AM | Link to this

This might be a good idea if you are an evangelical, Protestant Christian who doesn’t mind paying more in taxes to support the inevitable lawsuits and evidently doesn’t have the time to teach your religious beliefs to your own children.

By Nel

March 21, 2006 11:03 AM | Link to this

Excuse me but when who said school was supposed to teach morals? Isn’t that the duty of parents?
Since some parents don’t talk to their kids intelligently about sex then clinical discussions at school is indeed necessary if only to avoid the things that many parents swear their kids won’t ever do. Religious education in school should only be done in RELIGOUS schools. Georgia has black Baptists and the non-black Baptists, Lutheran, Catholic, Jewish, Muslim, Methodist, etc, etc. As someone already said, whose version of the bible do you teach? Our educational sysem is in the toilet and all they can come up with is bible study in school (ah yes, it’s an election cycle of course). Those of you who applaud this should take on the responsibility of religious study with your kids yourselves instead of passing your responsibilities onto somebody else.

With a church on almost every block, and the traffic congestion they cause every Sunday, I’d say that there are bigger problem with todays kids than not having the bible taught in school. They can barely graduate, so what do you take out of the curriculum?

By Beth

March 21, 2006 11:03 AM | Link to this

Learning the Bible in private school made me realise I did NOT want to be a Christian so yeah maybe there is a good side to this too. But any religion class should be all-encompassing and include various faiths. They are all the same anyway (making you feel as though “God” screwed up when It created you). The whole problem with Christianity is that nobody ever actually reads the Bible, so maybe this is a start to combatting the general ignorance of Bible-thumpers.

By Carrie

March 21, 2006 11:04 AM | Link to this

Studying the Bible as literature would probably be a great class. However, after reading the posts on this topic, I think the money is better spent on history, english and civics.

SET - as always you have scared me for the day…..only because I see that you have a good point!

“I rebuke you in the name of Jesus” instead of detention. That is the funniest thing I have read/heard in a long time - I am still laughing!

By LTK

March 21, 2006 11:05 AM | Link to this

This is a waste of taxdollars. If parents want their children to learn about the bible send them to church or pay for private school. Georgia’s schools have enough problems with producing literate citizens. Teachers should be hired for reading, history, math, and science. Schools don’t have the space or funds for this course. What about coverage for all of the world’s religions? This legislation is taking us in the wrong direction. Do our elected officials not understand that the separation of church and state is the foundation of our democracy?

By E

March 21, 2006 11:05 AM | Link to this

While I am not opposed to the offering of these classes, the consideration of a State law concerning such is a waste of time and taxpayer money which could be spent more wisely on other more important topics. Also, it proves that no matter how “cosmopolitan” Southern states may think they are becoming (Georgia in particular), they’ll always just be Bible belt conservatives.

By Julie

March 21, 2006 11:06 AM | Link to this

Excellent idea!!!

By GOB

March 21, 2006 11:06 AM | Link to this

“The Bible clearly explains that we will be hated by the world because of Christ.”

I dont think your belief in Christ is the reason you are disliked…It is because you angrily assume anyone that doesnt believe what you do is an immoral heathen, destined to burn for all eternity.

By LHK

March 21, 2006 11:07 AM | Link to this

Bibles BANNED for CHILDREN in SCHOOL, but ALLOWED for CONVICTS in PRISON??

As I noted in my comment somewhere up in the thread, Bibles are NOT banned in school. You can bring your Bible to school, read it to your buddies at lunch, read it in study hall, read it on school grounds before and after school. The only thing you can’t do is impede on another student’s choice to not read the Bible.

Some of the people on this forum seem to think that a kid’ll be expelled from a public school if he mentions Jesus or has a Bible in his possession. Totally untrue. In my AP Lit class, we often discussed famous Biblical figures and verses because of their importance in literature. The key here is that our teacher did not put these ideas forth as the one true set of ideas in the universe.

By GOB

March 21, 2006 11:10 AM | Link to this

For all of those who keep insisting that since the class would be an elective, it is ok: Would you be ok with an elective course teaching the Kama Sutra? I mean, it is an elective, so no students would be forced to take it.

By Brad

March 21, 2006 11:10 AM | Link to this

To the72john, Can you tell us what will happen to you if I am right and you are wrong? Or are you afraid to be honest with yourself and admit you need Christ. He won’t turn you away.

By Jay

March 21, 2006 11:11 AM | Link to this

The Bible is a Book of Love: We have so Much Hatred in the World, God is Love! Our Schools are Filled with Drugs, Guns, Teenage Pregnancies, and STDS, Its time we See God is calling! We have Put the Bible on a Mantel to Gather Dust: Its time to Restore our Nation to Spritual Sanity! People are Going Crazy because Gods Word is Hidden behind, Bling, Bling, Fine Clothes, Big Mansions,False Prohets, and Sinful Desires that Only Leave Temporary Happiness. Let us Fight to fill our children with the Love of God, Teach Gods Word to a New Generation!!!!!!!

By inlove

March 21, 2006 11:11 AM | Link to this

I feel very sorry for the people who are bold enough to attack God and Christianity. Their lives must be very empty and meaningless. I can’t remember there being very much about religion taught or taking place in school when I was there in the 70s. I guess everyone went to church and were taught moral values at home back then. The problem is today’s society is creating so many godless heathens that any attempt to teach them moral values should be welcomed. As part of a literature course in college, we studied the Bible as literature and not religious doctrine. It was there that I was able to really learn how to read the Bible and gain more insight into was being said. I was raised in the Christian church, attended Sunday school, but never understood how to read the Bible and comprehend it until I took that course. For those who are interested in taking the course as an elective, they should be able to. If they take the course for the wrong reason, who knows; what was meant for evil could turn out to be for good.

By Stephanie

March 21, 2006 11:15 AM | Link to this

I think it is a great idea. Our children need to be remined about god that he does exist and to believe. Maybe it would cut down on some of this violence and they will start thinking on their own.

By Not Overly Religous But..

March 21, 2006 11:15 AM | Link to this

E Lewis, religion is taught in the homes. I grew up Catholic and attended mass every Sunday, holiday and catechism classes on Monday night. We were not thumpers. The priest came over and had beers with the parents on the front lawn. And so the tradition continues today. As someone who has walked the talk, Bible Lit does NOT teach hellfire and brimstone, it teaches the Bible from an educational stance and is reviewed and discussed as any other piece of literary work including poetry. I do not recall the teachers ripping into me aboaut the 10 Commandments and what would happen if I went to hell because I was disobedient. It was clearly literature. Really people…unless you have taken one of these classes, you are only assuming what goes on. And you are completely wrong. ROTC is offered as an elective in some schools…I suppose that is a waist of tax payer money as well…how about music, drama, art, physical education. All electives. We wouldn’t want our tax dollars supporting such unnecessary electives, would we?

By veteran

March 21, 2006 11:15 AM | Link to this

Teachers who have been “in the system” for as many years as I have will remember a state approved elective course from long ago called “The Bible as Literature.” The ground rules included no prosletyzing, no preaching, and plenty of reading. We approached the course with strictly literary goals; we read history, poetry, short stories, drama, and parables (a.k.a. the Pentateuch, Psalms, Ruth, Job, and selected parables). And if you think that other religious works are not in the current curriculum, you have not picked up the state adopted world literature text (used in 10th-12th grades)in awhile. Look again … you will find not only selections from the Bible, but also readings from the Koran, the Analects, the Rig Veda, the Bhagavad-Gita, the Tao te Ching, and the Upanishad. Teaching using the Bible and other religious texts is not a new idea, even in public school.

By LG

March 21, 2006 11:17 AM | Link to this

There are 26 versions of the Bible - which one is going to be taught or are all of them? That would be interesting to see how there was originally 13 gospels and now it’s down to 4. How stories were changed throughout the year to control the uneduacated masses by royalty would be something I’d love my kids to see - show them how blind following leads to control.

By Carrie

March 21, 2006 11:17 AM | Link to this

Just to save some of you a lot of time this evening……nobody needs to pray for me. I just talked to God and I’m good. Thanks!

By Freethinker

March 21, 2006 11:17 AM | Link to this

I do find this discussion to be fascinating in a number of ways. Its interesting to me that Georgia is 49th in SAT scores (and would be 50th if the Fulton, Gwinnett, and Cobb systems were excluded), and that there have been runblings that Georgia’s standardized tests are nowhere near as demanding as they should be. Yet, instead of insistuting real reform (smaller classes, teacher pay tied to performance not solely to advanced degrees, school board accountability - particularly outside the metro area, more business involvement in schools, etc, etc) the General Assembly is trying to introduce a study of the Bible as an elective. In typical Georgia fashion, there is a lot of hand wringing and worry on both sides. I see the moral arguement displayed in the blog repeatedly, and I also see the laughingstock comments too. From my experience as a natve Georgian (and yes, I have lived all over the state), I have come to understand that anything seeming (key word here)to be open to interpretation is widely feared (Whats right and wrong? What does God really say? What would Jesus really do? Salvation through works or grace?) This manifests itself heavilly in religious theory. As a Rebublican, I think that teaching a Bible course in public schools in order to instill morality (numerous posts)is in direct conflict with the concept of personal responsibility. What you do in your home is your own business; how you teach your children these concepts is your responsibility, NOT the states. In a similar vein, its not YOUR responsibility to teach someone else’s children these concepts unless you are in a position of responsibilty such as priest, minister, preacher, etc. With that being said, also consider that this would open the door for teaching the history of other religions as well, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing (I took Religion 101 while at UGA in the early 90s), but may really offend some of the posters on this blog. In closing, the world has become much more broader in recent years, and our state is in constantly evolving politicaly, culturally, and economically. Personally, I am much more worried about our ability to keep up with those states that are ahead of us then I am about public schools teaching religion. The better jobs are going to more educated areas, and if you take the more developed parts of the state out (Atlanta metro, Athens, Columbus area, Savannah area) out of Georgia, then you have a population that is generally incapable of attracting well paying jobs. If you want a faith based curriculum, send your child to a Christian school, or even better, a parochial school. Tend your own house, take your children to church, and do your best to teach them whats right. Personal responsibility and accountability go a long way in moral teachings.

By GOB

March 21, 2006 11:17 AM | Link to this

“The Bible is a Book of Love”

Have you read the Old Testament lately??

By Brad

March 21, 2006 11:18 AM | Link to this

GOB sharing what we believe is called the Great Commission and we are told we will be hated for it. People who hate us for it don’t make us mad, they make us sad. We pray for you even though you mock us, and laugh at us. What if you are wrong? Do you even care where you will spend eternity?

By The72John

March 21, 2006 11:18 AM | Link to this

To the72john, Can you tell us what will happen to you if I am right and you are wrong? Or are you afraid to be honest with yourself and admit you need Christ. He won’t turn you away.

Brad, while you might be so intelectually and ethically limited that you require a strict and archaic set of guidelines to let you know how to live your life, don’t assume that I do.

Sorry, but your fear-based life of bigotry and condemnation is not something I prefer to emulate. Take your narrow-minded BS elsewhere, hate-monger.

By jeff

March 21, 2006 11:19 AM | Link to this

I have no problem with “Religious” studies in the classroom - so long as Islam, Buddhism, Hinduis, etc. is given equal billing with “Biblical” Christianity. Bible studies sanctions only one religion and is and should be unconstitutional

By TRUTH

March 21, 2006 11:20 AM | Link to this

RELIGION IS FOR THOSE WHO ARE UNABLE TO THINK FOR THEMSELVES. LAZY AMERICANS!

By Sean

March 21, 2006 11:20 AM | Link to this

This course is an attempt to codify into law, the promotion of Christianity within the public schools. I doubt that a class solely studying, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam, etc., would be accepted with such fervor. If this class must be taught it should be taught as a Comparative Religion course similar to what is taught in Universities. It should encompass all the worlds major religions, perhaps doing so will help alleviate some of the ignorance and intolerance that is so prevalent today. In summation, I feel that this course in its present form will be divisive and that another opportunity for unity and inclusiveness by teaching the universality of human beliefs has been squandered.

Good job all those who support this measure. I hope y’all are happy that our great state will continue to be the butt of jokes for the rest of the country. I hope y’all are pleased that we will still be considered ignorant and backwater denizens of the stereotypical south. Bravo.

By I_Teach

March 21, 2006 11:20 AM | Link to this

What a horrific idea!!!!!

Whose Bible would be taught? Since the ORIGINAL Bible was written in ancient GREEK, will that one be used? Or the abbreviated/altered King James version?

Also, how can it be taught objectively and in what context??

An idea! Let’s have a NON-CHRISTIAN write the curriculum for this, and only NON-CHRISTIANS teach it. Then, I guess, we will be able to make sure there is no proselytizing going on!!! I have read with dismay the number of people who have posted who will view this as an opportunity to help others to the path of righteousness (their version, of course).

With all of the challenges facing GA schools, we don’t need this added burden. In a very narrow-minded (religion wise anyway) and a not-very diverse public school system, shouldn’t we be teaching COMPARATIVE religions…Wait! UGA teaches that course. Maybe it IS for those mature enough to look at religions objectively and study their religious texts without the opportunity to add to the congregation of the instructors’ choice!

It is only when we are open to the beliefs of others that we will make any real headway with regard to social issues in this great nation of ours…and we have become increasingly LESS tolerant of those with differing religious beliefs.

By btc

March 21, 2006 11:20 AM | Link to this

by concerned citizen: And because state and federal taxes are collected from every citizen and given to the public school system, these school systems are not allowed to endorse nor denounce any religion…..is that in the constitution or some liberal version/interpretation of the constitution or some liberal judge who made it law.. I read as that the government can not choose my religion but cannot stop me from choosing one and acting on its principles. Please tell us where the government can take my tax dollars and not spend it like I want…I heard once,”They professed to be wise and thus became fools.” Sounds like its coming true.

By Scott.....and a teacher

March 21, 2006 11:21 AM | Link to this

I will close my postings with these thoughts. It is amazing to me that Christ came to earth and willingly laid down His life knowing that people would reject Him, spit upon His teachings and His Word. While I do not judge any individual who agrees or disagrees with these classes, I am aware that there will come a day when “every knee shall bow and every tongue will confess that He is Lord.”

By Glenn

March 21, 2006 11:22 AM | Link to this

Since the Bible class will be an elective & religion will not be allowed taught in public schools, Why not have the Illiad or Oddessy taught as an elective instead ? All three are fun reading , enjoyably violent, based on mythology , & have shaped peoples lives “morally & spiritually”. You even have cool dragons & three headed beasts thrown in ! Much cooler than boring simple Mespotamians or regular two armed , two legged Assyrians .

By GOB

March 21, 2006 11:23 AM | Link to this

“The problem is today’s society is creating so many godless heathens that any attempt to teach them moral values should be welcomed.”

So the assumption here is that anyone is not Christian cannot be a moral person? That doesnt sound very accurate to me.

By Lawrence D.Pierce

March 21, 2006 11:23 AM | Link to this

The right to be taught classes that will aid children to grow in future years is right. Our children according to news media reports, states our children are failing in the present classes they are taking, so adding another class on to their failing classes will not aid children in the future. As a parent, I must remember, I finished school, now it’s time for my children to finish school in their era, “not my narrow- minded beliefs that I have the answer to everything era.” I will only encourage them to read, write and learn daily and leave the teaching to the professionals(teachers).

By GOB

March 21, 2006 11:25 AM | Link to this

“I think it is a great idea. Our children need to be remined about god that he does exist and to believe. Maybe it would cut down on some of this violence and they will start thinking on their own.”

Christianity does not have a stellar record when it comes to promoting free thinking.

By Not Overly Religous But..

March 21, 2006 11:26 AM | Link to this

GOB, now those kind of comments and thoughts are a little over the top. Sex education was taught when I was in school but we didn’t learn it by watching porn flicks. It was all very scientific in explanation. How about since guns are allowed in this country, before we know it the schools will offer to teach a class of how to shoot to kill See what I mean? Silly isn’t it and it’s a dumb unrealistic argument.

By I_Teach

March 21, 2006 11:26 AM | Link to this

Freethinker,

Exactly.

Why would ANYONE leave the teaching of morals, religion, and personal responsibility up to anyone but him/herself?

I don’t want anyone teaching MY sons their version of the Bible, and their interpretation of their church’s view on the Bible, God, or anything else.

People! Public schools should be in charge of teaching things that will keep us competitive. I’m sorry…I can’t see that studying the Bible and being able to quote scripture, and interpret it, is going to help you land a job in a Fortune 500 company.

Teach this in your homes and schools. I’ve taught in both parochial and public schools. Bible study, even “Bible as Literature” really has no place in such an evangelical arena! How can you guarantee that the person teaching this class will not put his/her own spin/belief in the lessons?

This is just too dangerous. We need to make GAs students more competitive, and much more able to deal with college level work. I doubt many colleges would be overly impressed with “Bible Study” as an elective!

By katsuke

March 21, 2006 11:27 AM | Link to this

It’s an elective, so that’s a plus. It shouldn’t be a “Bible” class, though. It should be religious studies, studying multiple religions, texts, beliefs, outcomes, etc. This country is already way too narrow-minded when it comes to recognizing and understanding other belief systems. Classes such as this, that focus on our primary beliefs and even give highschool credit, aren’t going to help.

By The72John

March 21, 2006 11:27 AM | Link to this

8I will close my postings with these thoughts. It is amazing to me that Christ came to earth and willingly laid down His life knowing that people would reject Him, spit upon His teachings and His Word. While I do not judge any individual who agrees or disagrees with these classes, I am aware that there will come a day when “every knee shall bow and every tongue will confess that He is Lord.”*

Hmm… I wonder if He had any idea how much time His followers would spend spitting and torturing other people.

By another teacher

March 21, 2006 11:27 AM | Link to this

the bible was the first book ever written Euclid’s Elements was written in the 3rd century BC. Look it up.

BTW - I support the separation of church and state. Also, you don’t need to be “christian” in order to be a good or a moral person. I consider myself to be non-religious and have a very strong sense of morality. Also, my children are not little monsters. They are good students who do well in school and make excellent choices.

By Brad

March 21, 2006 11:29 AM | Link to this

the72john please use your intellectual power and wisdom and answer the question I posed to you you earlier.Do you know for certain what will happen to you when you die? I don’t hate you- I love you as a brother and pray for you. Please read and pray and find out for your self.

By Marshall

March 21, 2006 11:30 AM | Link to this

Study the bible on your own time. We have other priorities in our schools. Science, math and English for example. Obviuosly this is geared to right wing Christians (many whom reside in the Ga Congress). Certainly the Koran, Torah and other holy books will not be given equal time. Georgia politicians show their ignorance and misunderstanding of the Constitution. Put our money into education for all. Boost our children’s test scores. * Say NO, this has nothing to do with whoever or whatever you want to pray to or NOT pray to. Just do it on your time and not in my public school.* This is an example of lawmakers avoiding the reality of Georgia’s pathetic educational system and disassociating with meaningful educational progress. Wake up already. Our children’s future depends on it.

By LG

March 21, 2006 11:30 AM | Link to this

GOB,

My children are much loved by their teachers and their school administrators as well as adults outside school for being great kids. They’ve never set foot in church and they don’t believe in hell. The Bible and Christianity isn’t the only means to have moral value and be respectful. I, as a single mom, have taught them those things. Most of the kids that they know that have been paneled by the school board go to church every Sunday.

By old monk

March 21, 2006 11:32 AM | Link to this

No. Religious beliefs should be taught at home/Church/Temple etc. Schools should focus on academics and sports. Teaching the Bible in school will lead to further religious divide and this is the first step that will be followed through by religious advocates demeaning and belittling other religions that will lead to a polarization of society.

By Not Overly Religous But..

March 21, 2006 11:32 AM | Link to this

WOW! Thank you veteran! This is EXACTLY how Bible Lit was taught to me 30 years ago before all this crazy separation of church and state came to be. Even then when it could have been prosthelized, it was not. I took this class in a public school, not a private religious shool. So anyone who takes it in religious schools, of course you will be taught hell and brimstone. Don’t compare apples to oranges.

By Rebecca W

March 21, 2006 11:33 AM | Link to this

IF this book CAN be taught objectively and the class includes, as mentioned by Mike K, ALL the known history around the book’s time and origin, then I’d say perhaps do this thing. And I’d also say, All books of popular faiths be included in the classroom format.

I highly believe, this law is a ruse to promote Christain doctrine, because it singles out the bible.

I’m very disapointed that tax money is being spent in this way.

Obviously, mankind has a need to develope the idea of higher powered beings. Perhaps we should look at why we need that comfort/direction rather than purporting to know which is the “right” one.

By I_Teach

March 21, 2006 11:33 AM | Link to this

GOB- You’ve hit the nail on the head.

In the Bible Belt, if you are not Christian, and you do not worship in the “right way,” in the “right denomination,” you are damned to hell. (Interesting views held on Catholics and LDS-both worship Christ!).

I have Hindu friends, Jewish relatives, and gasp even atheist friends! They are all moral, wonderful human beings, and several have contributed amazing scientific/medical breakthroughs that have benefitted ALL of mankind. Does this mean, that my Jewish cousin, who has led the fight to find cures for AIDS, cancer, and childhood diabetes is less a good, moral person because he’s a Jew? This wonderful man who has lived his entire life in the service of others to find cures for these illnesses is damned to hell because someone believes that as a non-Christian, he will spend eternity being punished?

Yet, the vast number of hypocrital church goers who attend the ‘right church,’ who’ve never lifted a finger to help others (in a real-word sense) are guaranteed a spot in heaven?

Sorry, the God I believe in doesn’t work that way. The God I believe in will judge me and my family/friends on how we lived our lives-not how we worshiped Him.

By GOB

March 21, 2006 11:37 AM | Link to this

Not Overly Religous But - When I suggested the Kama Sutra as an elective, i was using an extreme to prove a point. Most of the people on this blog in favor of this course seem to think it is good for saving souls. The Kama Sutra is probably about the worst thing many of them could imagine, so I was simply making a point about how dangerous this bible class could be.

Plus, religion (christianity in particular) has been killed a whole lot more people thoughout history than sex…

By N. Adams

March 21, 2006 11:37 AM | Link to this

No wonder high school test scores are low, with the legislature leading the way with this type of mentality it does not appear they will improve in the future. If you want to offer an elective, offer tutoring for subjects or a class on how to master reading , not religious material that could very likely become somewhat indoctrinare, depending upon the teacher and community, in this current climate of name calling.

By Robert

March 21, 2006 11:37 AM | Link to this

After reading several of the post I think it very interesting the double standard that is so evident. Those in opposition to this make these points. Tax dollars should not be spent supporting one religion over the other, what about separation of church and state and the ones I have the most respect for, I just do not believe in God or the Bible.

The fact is that those in favor pay taxes, who knows maybe more than those in opposition. If that is the arguement then those who pay the most taxes should get the most say in the matter. As far as separation, the public schools cross that line everyday when they teach evolution. Since every major religion teaches some form of creation. Would not logic dictate that teaching against creation is the government teaching against a religion or religious tenet. Thus they cross the line of separation. If there is a line it cannot be crossed in either direction. For those that just do not believe in God. I am truly sorry, based on statistics you would be in minority and this bill makes an accomodation for you.

Lastly, for those that are waiting on the ACLU. This exact issue has already been vetted before the US Supreme Court and opponents to the Bible classes have lost. However, I would be glad to see the court say that precedent does not matter. That would tell me that the court has shifted enough to say precendent does not always matter. Giving leeway to overturn other past decisions and I would trade this one for say, Roe v. Wade. So one of the things the ACLU would have to do is ask the court to make a decision that would reverse prior decisions.

By LAUGHING

March 21, 2006 11:38 AM | Link to this

I went to a parochial high school. One day my religious studies teacher told the class to close their eyes and be quiet, because she was about to speak “in tongues”. I nearly peed my pants! Bible class is well worth the laugh it will give to many Georgia students, especially the ones who have been taught to think for themselves…

By Carolyn

March 21, 2006 11:39 AM | Link to this

Just as the major views of the earth’s beginnings should be presented so should the major religions be presented. Academic freedom is to present all views and let each person decide. When I was a journalist (now a stay-at-home mother), we did our best to present the various sides of an issue to let the public decide for themselves.

By GOB

March 21, 2006 11:40 AM | Link to this

LG - The first part of my post was copied from someone earlier on in the blog. I agree with you 100%. There are many on here who seem to feel that unless you are christian, you are an immoral heathen (i think those precise words were even used).

By beaz

March 21, 2006 11:41 AM | Link to this

Yes, Bible study is exactly what we need so that our kids can compete in an increasingly competitive global economy. As we all know, knowledge of the Bible is what will help our kids win when trying to land that job that requires some level of math, science or writing skills. Meanwhile, kids in India and China are starting to run laps around ours in math and the sciences, AND now they’re learning English with better proficiency. My co-worker has elementary school-aged nieces and nephews in India who are schooled completely in English and now speak the language with no discernible accent. Who do you think will win when this child in India can stomp yours in math or science and also knows English as well as you do?

By Carrie

March 21, 2006 11:42 AM | Link to this

I_Teach- Many people who are a part of organized religion don’t want to be judged on how they actually live their day to day lives because that would mean making an effort to be Christian and less instant gratification. It’s easy to go to Church on Sunday and look down on others who don’t, but not so easy actually live those principles Monday - Saturday.

Organized religion just ruins God and the Bible for everyone else:)

By Amazed (Independent Woman)

March 21, 2006 11:43 AM | Link to this

Just for Laughs: Any teacher applying for the position to teach this course, will have a very interesting interview process - to say the least. They will also be fired more often in some regions of the state and less often in others. They will need to live as “SAINTS” and not the football team. Because I can’t see any “Sinners” teaching this course.

The number one question during the interview process will be, do you believe in the Bible and are you a Christian. If yes, you are hired and if no, they will be allowed to file a discrimination law suit.

Job Qualifications:

You must be a Christian with high morals and believe wholeheartedly in what you teach. Also, you must be able to quote the 10 Commandments on demand.

But seriously, Why can’t we just take our children to church and invite the children you feel need to be introduced to God, with you on Sunday & Wednesday - or on Tuesday in my case.

By Miss Kim

March 21, 2006 11:44 AM | Link to this

It is the book that is most purchased, so why not teach students how to use and and why it is needed, providing they have a choice. There is great homework to be applied.

By R Walker

March 21, 2006 11:45 AM | Link to this

As long as it has a sticker in it that says the information is one theory and not fact.

By LAUGHING

March 21, 2006 11:45 AM | Link to this

Anyone ever notice that GOD spelled backward is DOG?

By GOB

March 21, 2006 11:46 AM | Link to this

Robert - Have you read the Constitution? It says “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof”

Teaching evolution does neither. It simply teaches an alternative. Students are not obligated to believe in it.

Teaching the bible only, however, with tax dollars, does in effect establish a religion. If the class could be taught from a literary and historical perspective only, it could be ok. THey would need to offer other religions as well though.

By SW

March 21, 2006 11:47 AM | Link to this

Two sided coin here: Do you really want schools teaching your kids about religion? What are churches for then? Ah…hmm, isn’t that the role of the church? Your kids don’t go to church you say, well make them. Other side of the coin is how one sided and skewed will this class be? How inclusive or exclusive will the class be to all religions? This just plain scares me.

By Not Overly Religous But..

March 21, 2006 11:47 AM | Link to this

GOB, I see your point and I agree with you that zealots have a different motive. Bible Lit should not be taught as a religious replacement for any deficiencies at home. I simply see Bible Lit as exactly that - literature. And if the Koran wants to be taught as literature, I don’t have a problem with that either. Though due to media portrayal, I can only assume most Muslims would find it offensive for the Koran to be studied as art rather than from the religious aspect. They seem to take everything so literal!

By webster

March 21, 2006 11:48 AM | Link to this

If it is a religious stidies class and the curriculum covers many different text of faith then thats fine but if it is just a Bible study course its not fair. If you can’t teach all of them don’t teach any of them. Leave the teaching of religion to the Churches,Mosques,Synagogue’s,Kingdom Halls, etc…

By John

March 21, 2006 11:49 AM | Link to this

If you’re against the class, fine. But everybody needs to quit with this whole “need to focus on more important things” argument.

Students take electives which don’t focus on their test-taking skills all the time: band, art, chorus, gym, etc. At least in this class they would be reading.

So, unless you want GA to do away with the entire concept of electives (including those listed above) and concentrate solely on what they might be tested on, come up with a different arguement against the class.

By Educated

March 21, 2006 11:50 AM | Link to this

Wow-How bout Koran classes? Tao Te Ching 101? Bhagvad Vita studies? Do we love to wear our ignorance on our sleeves this much?

Bible belt gets me every time…

By phil

March 21, 2006 11:50 AM | Link to this

YES. Bible study should be not only allowed but encouraged.

By Kathleen

March 21, 2006 11:50 AM | Link to this

I am a Christian and also a firm believer in the separation of church and state. Yes, some of the Founding Fathers were Christian, but not all of them were (does the name Thomas Jefferson ring a bell?). Remember, one of the reasons why a lot of the early immigrants came over here in the first place was to escape religious persecution (remember the Church of England?) and to be able to worship their God as they wished. Remember also how some of our immigrant ancestors treated the Native American Indians, who by the way kept many of our immigrant ancestors from starving to death, in forcing them to convert to Christianity under penalty of death. Yes, I realize that teaching an “elective” Bible class in a public school is a far cry from this, but at the same time I am very concerned where it could lead. If you want your child to be taught the Bible in class, enroll them in a parochial school. Otherwise, please teach them the Bible at home or in church.

By Glenn

March 21, 2006 11:52 AM | Link to this

The true problem I have with relgion taught in school is that children should be in an environment where they are allowed to think for themselves individually . I would hate for my child to learn religion from most of you right wing christains who have posted on this board. You seem to have a blank check mentality . I can do or feel what ever I choose so long as I go to church on Sunday. If I do this my sins will be forgiven. Your form of a god that created the world & all of life is so simplistic it is truly comical . This is time where you say that you pray for my soul & hope that I find Jesus & also that minorities quit moving toward the suburbs.

By Christina

March 21, 2006 11:52 AM | Link to this

If parents want their kids to learn about the bible, enroll them in Sunday School or other church classes. Public school should not be the venue to teach kids about religion; where does the “Separation of Church and State” exist? If we let one religious class be taught, then every other religious group will demand that theirs be taught as well. They have already cut enough other classes from school like art, music, and gym so why would they add something that is strictly prejudiced towards ONE religion.

By Joe Mama

March 21, 2006 11:54 AM | Link to this

When Judaism and the Muslim belief get as large as Christianity in Gwinnett, then they can have thier own classes, too.

By Johnson

March 21, 2006 11:55 AM | Link to this

This is nothing more than ridiculous Republican election year politics.

As a Christian I am insulted at the Republicans pandering. As a taxpayer I am sickened by their blatant misuse of tax dollars. As a citizen I am appalled as they flaunt the Constitution.

Let Jesus fund his own school.

By GOB

March 21, 2006 11:58 AM | Link to this

“When Judaism and the Muslim belief get as large as Christianity in Gwinnett, then they can have thier own classes, too.”

Yeah!! and when the blacks and hispanics get a population as large as the whites, they can vote too…What? That already happened??

By The72John

March 21, 2006 11:59 AM | Link to this

When Judaism and the Muslim belief get as large as Christianity in Gwinnett, then they can have thier own classes, too.

And thus, America becomes the very tyranny that its founders fled to escape.

By Robert

March 21, 2006 11:59 AM | Link to this

To I-teach

I do not no if you realize this but by your statements you are almost making yourself out to be God. As humans we cannot decide what will get us to heaven or to hell. Both scripture and nature tell us about God standard. It is not a Catholic, Jewish, Islamic, or Protestant standard it is God’s standard.

God did not intend for anyone to suffer eternal separation from Him. “Hell” was created for Satan and the fallen angels because of their rebellion. Because they felt they could set themselves up as equal with God. Scripture says that hell has to enlarge itself.

While not enough room here the scripture most Catholics use, the scriptures used in synogues and the bibles used by most protestants all speak to the fact that all of our works of rightousness are as filthy rags/dung/foolishness to God. I did not mention the quoran because I am not as familiar with what it says on these issues. I am going to guess that do good in our sense of doing good is not a requirement.

There is an old saying, God said it, I believe it, that settles it. Probably to be more accurate it should say “God said it, that settles it” Who am I to validate God’s precepts

By Becca

March 21, 2006 11:59 AM | Link to this

You do know that Nike was a Greek Goddess and not just a brand of shoe?

By E. Lewis

March 21, 2006 12:00 PM | Link to this

By Not Overly Religous But, I too was raised Catholic and I got my religious upbringing from my parents and my church. That’s not the issue.

I have lived around here long enough to know that while in theory it sound reasonable, this proposed bible class will turn into an evangelical, Protestant religious class.

If I were a betting person, I’d bet you they aren’t using the Catholic bible.

By Carrie

March 21, 2006 12:05 PM | Link to this

So, basically, Robert can do whatever he wants as long as he goes to church every Sunday and he will be a lock for Heaven. However, the atheist who helps runaway teens will end up in hell. I think hell sounds more like pareadise in his scenario.

By Jay

March 21, 2006 12:06 PM | Link to this

The Old Testament is under the Old Covenant: The New Testament is under the New Covenant: God Son (Jesus is the New Covenant: Jesus Died and Shed his Blood so we could be saved for Certian Destruction: God is calling to you right now: You have a Chance to receive your Salvation Today: Accept Jesus: Stop fighting Against God with your Foolish Philosophy!

By Nikole

March 21, 2006 12:07 PM | Link to this

I graduated from high school in 2000 and certain parts of the Bible were included in our Literature textbook. The proposed courses would be used in the same manner as those stories in that class. So why all the posts against this? It is already being done to some extent.

By Beth

March 21, 2006 12:07 PM | Link to this

Absolutely it is a good idea. When we started removing it all years ago is when things really went downhill. Children should have a choice but that is it, have a choice. Thanks

By sue

March 21, 2006 12:08 PM | Link to this

my goodness.

christianity is for white people only? black people have no concern for the bible? the bible will make people better? no prayer in school? no bible study in school?

geez louise people.
jesus was not white.
jesus did not come here to start a religion, see events in ancient rome. i wonder what all of those filled to the brim black churches teach on sunday and wednesday. some of today’s biggest warmongers have read the bible in a study group. there is prayer in school. teach your child how to pray. i have yet to hear of one child being put out of school for silent prayer.
bible study in the schools reason for not sending child to public school is good if you are that deep into the bible. make room for the child who parents study the bible at home with them and whose parents desire they learn how to interact with others outside of their home.

i pray with my child. i study the bible with my child. i do not insist that his school chums pray or study the bible. freedom is what makes this country great. yet there always seem to be those who feel the need to convert others to their system of thinking and living.

By Carrie

March 21, 2006 12:08 PM | Link to this

So, basically, Robert can do whatever he wants as long as he goes to church every Sunday and he will be a lock for Heaven. However, the atheist who helps runaway teens will end up in hell. I think hell sounds more like pareadise in his scenario.

By sue

March 21, 2006 12:09 PM | Link to this

my goodness.

christianity is for white people only? black people have no concern for the bible? the bible will make people better? no prayer in school? no bible study in school?

geez louise people.
jesus was not white.
jesus did not come here to start a religion, see events in ancient rome. i wonder what all of those filled to the brim black churches teach on sunday and wednesday. some of today’s biggest warmongers have read the bible in a study group. there is prayer in school. teach your child how to pray. i have yet to hear of one child being put out of school for silent prayer.
bible study in the schools reason for not sending child to public school is good if you are that deep into the bible. make room for the child who parents study the bible at home with them and whose parents desire they learn how to interact with others outside of their home.

i pray with my child. i study the bible with my child. i do not insist that his school chums pray or study the bible. freedom is what makes this country great. yet there always seem to be those who feel the need to convert others to their system of thinking and living.

By Johnson

March 21, 2006 12:09 PM | Link to this

Catholic bible? Are you kidding?

King Jimmy only please.

By Amazed (Independent Woman)

March 21, 2006 12:09 PM | Link to this

BIG QUESTION????????? Will the parents need to sign an approval letter for their child to take this elective?

This would be one time, my child would have to get my approval. I’m very specific about the type of church I attend and who my minister is going to be. I can’t see any of our current teachers “teaching” this class and I don’t want PAT Robertson anywhere close to the building.

Religion is a very sensitive subject and just anyone outside of my church would “not” do.

By sue

March 21, 2006 12:09 PM | Link to this

my goodness.

christianity is for white people only? black people have no concern for the bible? the bible will make people better? no prayer in school? no bible study in school?

geez louise people.
jesus was not white.
jesus did not come here to start a religion, see events in ancient rome. i wonder what all of those filled to the brim black churches teach on sunday and wednesday. some of today’s biggest warmongers have read the bible in a study group. there is prayer in school. teach your child how to pray. i have yet to hear of one child being put out of school for silent prayer.
bible study in the schools reason for not sending child to public school is good if you are that deep into the bible. make room for the child who parents study the bible at home with them and whose parents desire they learn how to interact with others outside of their home.

i pray with my child. i study the bible with my child. i do not insist that his school chums pray or study the bible. freedom is what makes this country great. yet there always seem to be those who feel the need to convert others to their system of thinking and living.

By Nikole

March 21, 2006 12:11 PM | Link to this

As someone that graduated from high school in 2000, you all should know that stories from the Bible were already included in my literature textbook. The proposed courses would teach the Bible in a similar fashion. It is not “Bible study” like in church. So why all the posts against it?

By Robert

March 21, 2006 12:12 PM | Link to this

GOB-I actually can quote it the orginal and all the amendments. Teaching a class that undermines the foundation any religion and that undermines the authority of the parents that teach that to their children. Under a strict “Wall” theory the state could be prohibiting (hindering) the religious education of the child at home.

My point is that I hope the same people who are upset that just the Bible is used and taught are also upset that just evolution is being taught. In the Bible class teach all or none. In the science class teach all or none.

By Atlanta Teacher

March 21, 2006 12:14 PM | Link to this

As a teacher, I have two words which explain why I’m against this bill— law suit. I wouldn’t touch that class with a ten-foot pole, because even if I thought I could teach the class objectively, I bet students would find reasons against my teaching and take action against me.

Besides, if I were a student, I would take the class only to prove that it couldn’t be taught in an objective manner…as someone who practices Judaism, there have been numerous times in my student and teaching career where I’ve heard teachers cross the line and share their religious beliefs with students, and furthermore, discuss in class what “really” happened.. if I were a student, and that happened in class, I would call the ACLU.

My question is, what makes you think that this wouldn’t happen if this bill passes? There are plenty of competent teachers around; however, that doesn’ change the fact that they may slip and find themselves in a million dollar law suit.

By Atlanta Teacher

March 21, 2006 12:15 PM | Link to this

As a teacher, I have two words which explain why I’m against this bill— law suit. I wouldn’t touch that class with a ten-foot pole, because even if I thought I could teach the class objectively, I bet students would find reasons against my teaching and take action against me.

Besides, if I were a student, I would take the class only to prove that it couldn’t be taught in an objective manner…as someone who practices Judaism, there have been numerous times in my student and teaching career where I’ve heard teachers cross the line and share their religious beliefs with students, and furthermore, discuss in class what “really” happened.. if I were a student, and that happened in class, I would call the ACLU.

My question is, what makes you think that this wouldn’t happen if this bill passes? There are plenty of competent teachers around; however, that doesn’ change the fact that they may slip and find themselves in a million dollar law suit.

By WAR EAGLE!

March 21, 2006 12:17 PM | Link to this

It’s amazing to see that the Bible Thumpers want to push the Bible to “help the children find Jesus.” Remember, the Islamists have this in their schools and have turned them into “little terrorist camps” by injecting THEIR interpretation of the religion. It was also the bible thumping of the parents of Kleboldt and Harris that drove the two kids to commit Columbine. Also, the NAACP and ACLU will get into the act on behalf of illegals not offering hindu, african and Quran based religious electives or in spanish for that matter. Religion belongs in the Sanctuary. Teaching Morals and Ethics should be in the schools. And not the PC garbage type. Morals such as Countries who kill citizens for converting from Islam to Christianity is immoral. See every Arab country following Islam. It’s enough that we have to see crooked evangelists on Sunday morning TV ripping off people by saying “send in your money and we’ll rush you this prayer cloth”-yeah right-that will get my prayers answered. To quote a famous poet-“everyone has to believe in something. I believe I’ll have another beer.”-Stone Cold Steve Austin

By ClintonIn08

March 21, 2006 12:19 PM | Link to this

Get real. This finally proves the only thing the General Assembly will fail to pass is an IQ test….Religion in the public schools? Why—So some wannabe Pat Robertson can espouse his or her version of the bible on the American Idol generation? Isn’t that why we now allow the idiodic absurdity we have come to know as “Home Schooling” to exist?

By ClintonIn08

March 21, 2006 12:19 PM | Link to this

Get real. This finally proves the only thing the General Assembly will fail to pass is an IQ test….Religion in the public schools? Why—So some wannabe Pat Robertson can espouse his or her version of the bible on the American Idol generation? Isn’t that why we now allow the idiodic absurdity we have come to know as “Home Schooling” to exist?

By Sarah

March 21, 2006 12:20 PM | Link to this

I can’t believe this is even brought up when in Georgia they are struggling in the academics department. Georgia is at the bottom of the pile & instead of trying to “fix” that problem, it trys to add an elective on the Bible….How about instead of adding an elective on the Bible, the State of Georgia should try to get its education levels up to par instead of hanging at the bottom? Work on the basics first & then worry about adding to it…. I don’t necessary think it is bad to want to put religion in school (but then again if you want your kids to learn about religion or the bible send them to a religious school not a public one….. or find a church that has sunday school classes & take them to it…I know it is not being mandated, but I don’t believe as Bible elective is the right way to go - that is excluding other religions. A better idea if you wanted to have religion in school is maybe to have a Religion course (that focuses on ALL religions, not just a specific one)& the other problem is even in christianity, it is broken down into other sections, like catholic, baptist, methodist, protestant…. I think it would be better to teach religion vs. the bible.

By GOB

March 21, 2006 12:21 PM | Link to this

Robert - under your argument, you could say that your religion doesnt believe that 2+2=4, so it shouldnt be taught in a math class. What about those people who think dinosaur fossils were put here by satan to trick us into not believing in god? Should that be part of a geography class?

Should the biblical creation stories, and all of the ensuing loving acts of god from Genesis be included in a History class?

I understand your point, in theory, but the reality of is that a line has to be drawn somewhere, and the people that have studied the biology the most (scientists) should probably be the ones to determine where the line is.

By GOB

March 21, 2006 12:22 PM | Link to this

Robert - under your argument, you could say that your religion doesnt believe that 2+2=4, so it shouldnt be taught in a math class. What about those people who think dinosaur fossils were put here by satan to trick us into not believing in god? Should that be part of a geography class?

Should the biblical creation stories, and all of the ensuing loving acts of god from Genesis be included in a History class?

I understand your point, in theory, but the reality of is that a line has to be drawn somewhere, and the people that have studied the biology the most (scientists) should probably be the ones to determine where the line is.

By ctmoore

March 21, 2006 12:23 PM | Link to this

It is disturbing to hear the liberals describe what they believe to be their “constitutional rights”. Of course, these beliefs are based on isolated radical decisions made by activist judges. But some are teachers who teach our children that these wicked decisions are their “constitutional rights” like the abortionists’ “right to choose”. God help us. We should not hope to shout these people down or even subject them to the will of the majority. We must earnestly pray that they will soon feel the guilt of their immorality and repent. I pray that a better day is coming when God will reveal Himself to Americans from all cultures and persuasions from sea to shining sea. May God bless America and heal our land.

By Betsey

March 21, 2006 12:23 PM | Link to this

Being a teen and a christian but not going to a public school, what can I say? In my mind there are two ways to look at Biblical studies. But, before I go on, you must understand it is hard sometimes for kids and teens who are chistians and going to public schools who are to be christian examples. It’s even harder for them to hear things being taught that go against their faith. Now for the two ways that this can be viewed. The first way. Having a Bible class will be a help to those who want to learn about the Bible and to encourage them in school. Yes, having prayer groups and Bible study clubs are great, but we’re still young and don’t understand a lot the Bible teaches. By having a Bible class the students are able to learn and understand more of the Bible than before. Now for the second way to view this. After all that is said, what’s left to say? Well more than you think. Many of you are saying, “Think of all the kids that can know about God and Jesus”. All that will be great, but won’t it be better if thay learn about it from friends, family and churches? A Bible class should be a place where students can learn about God’s creation, history, the Ten Commandments, Jesus’s birth and what Jesus did for them. It should not be a place where you shove the Bible in their face and tell them what they can and what they can’t do. And, if that does happen in the public schools, then the only thing that I will be sad about is that nobody would want to go to church at all because they don’t want God’s word to be shoved in their face. Now some of you might agree with me or not. I don’t mind at all.

By Betsey

March 21, 2006 12:24 PM | Link to this

Being a teen and a christian but not going to a public school, what can I say? In my mind there are two ways to look at Biblical studies. But, before I go on, you must understand it is hard sometimes for kids and teens who are chistians and going to public schools who are to be christian examples. It’s even harder for them to hear things being taught that go against their faith. Now for the two ways that this can be viewed. The first way. Having a Bible class will be a help to those who want to learn about the Bible and to encourage them in school. Yes, having prayer groups and Bible study clubs are great, but we’re still young and don’t understand a lot the Bible teaches. By having a Bible class the students are able to learn and understand more of the Bible than before. Now for the second way to view this. After all that is said, what’s left to say? Well more than you think. Many of you are saying, “Think of all the kids that can know about God and Jesus”. All that will be great, but won’t it be better if thay learn about it from friends, family and churches? A Bible class should be a place where students can learn about God’s creation, history, the Ten Commandments, Jesus’s birth and what Jesus did for them. It should not be a place where you shove the Bible in their face and tell them what they can and what they can’t do. And, if that does happen in the public schools, then the only thing that I will be sad about is that nobody would want to go to church at all because they don’t want God’s word to be shoved in their face. Now some of you might agree with me or not. I don’t mind at all.

By Tim The Tool Man Taylor

March 21, 2006 12:26 PM | Link to this

Arrr, arrrrpgh…This topic is stupid anyway. What kind of high school student would pick an elective on the Bible? Oh, yeah, the dorks. I mean really, why don’t we give these kids something they can really sink their teeth into? Here are some better elective ideas: Anger Management, Karate, Sharp Shooting, Yoga, Play Station III, Montel, Street Hockey, Tree Climbing, or anything else that doesn’t involve reading, because if you haven’t noticed, kids can’t read anymore…who’s with me?

By C M

March 21, 2006 12:30 PM | Link to this

——- Quote from Above ——-

Because as we all know, every minute a kid is in Algebra or Chemistry, they are constantly exposed to drugs and premarital sex. Moron.

By Jay

March 21, 2006 12:30 PM | Link to this

B I B L E: Basic Intructions before Living Earth:

One day we are All going to Depart from this place we call Earth: Where are you going to Spend Eternity. Our Kids are dying Early Deaths and so are Adults: WE are need to see God is figthing to win our kids back: Satan has Decieved so Many People to thinking that this is wrong for our Children to learn about God: God is going to win: People can Fight and Argue about there Philosphy: God is going to win this War: Im just going to Stand Back and watch The Victory!

By Mike

March 21, 2006 12:30 PM | Link to this

I wonder if the Taliban started this way? One day the classroom, then the next day beheadings at the local soccer field. This is our politicians at their scariest and they have done some stupid and scary things in the past. This smacks of Cobb Co and the ridiculous evolution stickers on books. I send my kids to school for History, Math, English and Science but not Bible studies. This will fail in a court of law.

By C M

March 21, 2006 12:31 PM | Link to this

——- Quote from Above ——-

Because as we all know, every minute a kid is in Algebra or Chemistry, they are constantly exposed to drugs and premarital sex. Moron.

By K

March 21, 2006 12:33 PM | Link to this

As long as this is an elective, I certainly see no harm in offering it. The fact that there are so many out there that are actually “scared” by the thought of a Bible class being offered is prepostorous. Just exactly what is it you are scared of?? Elective classes are exactly what they sound like — ELECTIVE! Nobody is forcing anything down anyone else’s throat. If I am interested in Sports Medicine and it is an elective in my school - then great — I can ELECT to take the class and learn more about what I am interested in. If I am interested in the Bible and it is offered in my school — then great — I can ELECT to take the class. For those of you so adamantly against this type of class being offered — what is your REAL problem with it. Me thinks you protest too much!

By The72John

March 21, 2006 12:33 PM | Link to this

It is disturbing to hear the liberals describe what they believe to be their “constitutional rights”. Of course, these beliefs are based on isolated radical decisions made by activist judges

When all else fails, resort to blaming it all on the liberals and activist judges. You, sir, are an excellent little Lim-bot. I salute you for being brain-washed.

By Peter

March 21, 2006 12:34 PM | Link to this

Yes, there should be Bible teaching in the public schools. For all those who decry the need for separation of church and state, the First Amendment reads, “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion …” i.e. it’s a directive on Congress to keep them from interfering, not a directive against churches. Bottom line, introducing such a course does not violate the Constitution.

By Peter

March 21, 2006 12:36 PM | Link to this

Yes, there should be Bible teaching in the public schools. For all those who decry the need for separation of church and state, the First Amendment reads, “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion …” i.e. it’s a directive on Congress to keep them from interfering, not a directive against churches. Bottom line, introducing such a course does not violate the Constitution.

By Chris

March 21, 2006 12:36 PM | Link to this

Okay morons. There is NO LEGITIMATE scientific debate over evolution. None. Na da. Zero. There are MANY questions over the specifics, but as a whole, it has stood up to the scientific method very well. Teaching anything else in SCIENCE class would be idiotic and stupid and would result in the kids of Georgia falling further and further behind kids in the rest of the nation.

By Chris

March 21, 2006 12:38 PM | Link to this

The problem isn’t that it’s an elective, it’s that it will be a gov’t funded teaching of religion.

This would not be American.

By C M

March 21, 2006 12:41 PM | Link to this

If the rights granted to us by the constitution are not important, what would be so great about being American?

By JJ Johnson

March 21, 2006 12:44 PM | Link to this

Condoms and Lesbians and Winter Holidays are OK in Public Guvment School. Why not a little about Jesus?

By Chris

March 21, 2006 12:44 PM | Link to this

I think it’s time for us to ban the term “activist judges”. I challenge anyone here to even define what that means.

For the unenlightened, it means the judiciary is declaring a law as declared by Congress to be in violation of the constitution. Now comes the good part: which set of judges are more likely to strike a law down, Libs or Conservatives?

Scalia, Thomas and Rehnquest voted to strike down more laws than any of their liberal counterparts. Who are the activist judges?

The facts shall set you free.

By Nel

March 21, 2006 12:45 PM | Link to this

Considering the greed and corruption in so-called Christian churches these days, it makes you wonder how people can actually with a straight face, that those who don’t follow their mode of worship are immoral. Religion has for centuries spawned some of the worst atrocities and perversion in history…all in the name of religion. Unfortuantely, those here who spout Jesus’ name don’t want to read about the nasty side of religous zealotry. You don’t even have to look outside of Christianity to see that, you only need to read a little history. Most bible-based religions are considered Christian, which raises the questions why so many different denominations if we all worship the same God?

Looking at the stance of those running our country/state at the moment, why would anyone think that these people are actually concerned about the welfare of our children? It’s just a way to say they are doing something to their base. Religious fanaticism is a very dangerous thing, from whatever group, and Christians have a history there.

People should also remember that the fastest growing religion in the world is Islam. The fastest growing ethnic group in Georgia is Hispanic and they are predominently Catholic. Both apparenlty very strict, moral religions. So, for the people here who say teaching the bible will teach kids morals, then Catholicism, as strict as it is, should be the type of biblical interpretaion taught in schools.

By Nikole

March 21, 2006 12:45 PM | Link to this

Chris-you should read up on the proposed class and you will see that it is not much different from what schools are ALREADY doing, it is NOT teaching of religion. You and others that continue the name calling (morons,idiots etc.) would benefit from a little Bible study. Practicing Christians could have a conversation without calling names throughout.

By E. Lewis

March 21, 2006 12:49 PM | Link to this

It would turn into a particular version of a specific religion being taught in schools to the absence of all others.

Why isn’t a class on religious texts being proposed?

By Min.B

March 21, 2006 12:52 PM | Link to this

I think it’s a great idea. Being a junior in college, I wish this would’ve been offered when I was at Lovejoy. everybody talks about seperation of church and state. That’s why the country is in the “state” that it is right now. America has allowed anything and everything to come into its walls and thus has corrupted us. The funny thing about seperating church and state is that when a terrible disater hits us all of a sudden we want the support of the church and then when everything is ok we push it back like a step child.

By I_Teach

March 21, 2006 12:52 PM | Link to this

Carrie, Precisely.

I have given up ‘organized religion,’ because of the total ugliness and hypocrital behavior I have seen time and time again.

We honor and worship God at home. In daily prayer, but most of all, in volunteering, and doing things to help our fellow man-REGARDLESS OF HIS BELIEF SYSTEM!!!!!!!

My sons are known as kind, good, intelligent, gentle young men. Heaven help anyone if they find out we don’t attend an “approved” church or believe/worship the same way!

By Jay

March 21, 2006 12:52 PM | Link to this

I SMELL VICTORY!!!!!!!!!!!! FOR YOU NON BELIVERS OUT THERE GOD IS WATCHING YOU! GOD IS GOING TO WIN!

By Simpslg

March 21, 2006 12:54 PM | Link to this

It’s not merely another religious text, but a significant source of historic precedent for literature. Nearly all historic books, novels, poems and sonnets have been strongly influenced by the books of the bible, and to offer a class to teach this fundamental anchor of literature is not just a good idea, it should be the foundation and the premise that comes before any other text can be fully studied and understood.

By Jay

March 21, 2006 12:57 PM | Link to this

I SMELL VICTORY!!!!!!!!!!!! FOR YOU NON BELIVERS OUT THERE GOD IS WATCHING YOU! GOD IS GOING TO WIN!

By Robert

March 21, 2006 12:57 PM | Link to this

I am saddened by our “politicans” attempting to appease a particular segment of population during an election year rather than evaluating what is right.

Religon should not be taught in public schools, period. Why should a Christian be taught Muslim teaching, exclusively? They should not! And, neither should a Muslim be taught Christian ways, exclusively!

I do think that the only way to have an elective course available is to teach it as a course on all religons - giving every religon their due respect and acknowledgement in the classroom. This includes everything from Judaism to Wiccan to whatever. No ones tax dollars should be used to push anothers agenda!

By Robert

March 21, 2006 01:02 PM | Link to this

For some reason, I think that the only kids to sign up for such an elective would be those that go to Church, anyways….. No real purpose is served except for the horrible politicans that want to be re-elected. Do not give these spine-less idiots your vote!!!!

By Rob

March 21, 2006 01:03 PM | Link to this

Given the level of debate on this topic in an AJC blog - seems like it is a little raw to start passing laws on?

It is rare that we (and I include all of us in this statement) allow for the opposite of our beliefs to be tolerated, particularly when our children are concerned. When an issue this contentious comes up, it seems the best course is to keep it in the home. That way if it matters to you for YOUR children, then you can insure they get the material YOU want.

By The72John

March 21, 2006 01:03 PM | Link to this

It’s not merely another religious text, but a significant source of historic precedent for literature. Nearly all historic books, novels, poems and sonnets have been strongly influenced by the books of the bible, and to offer a class to teach this fundamental anchor of literature is not just a good idea, it should be the foundation and the premise that comes before any other text can be fully studied and understood.

Well, it’s certainly influential, but other sources are equally influential - Greek and Roman myth and legend, or Classical philosophy, just to name a couple. If you’re really interested in teaching the underpinings of culture, then make a class that incorporates all of these things.

By I_Teach

March 21, 2006 01:03 PM | Link to this

Robert: Please show me where I make myself out to be God.

How terribly presumptous of you.

I did say, however, that NO ONE should sit in judgment of others. You sir, are doing just that.

How do you KNOW for sure that GOD said those words you quote? Do you know the real history of the Bible? That in its original form it was written in Greek, and then altered as it was translated?

Your view and thinking are the precise reasons why religion should be left out of school.

For your information, I was told by a Baptist friend, who did not know I was raised as a Roman Catholic that “Catholics worship the Pope, and don’t worship Jesus.” So, someone like THIS may be teaching a Bible class? Someone with NO information about any other religion but his/her own? Someone with no clear understanding of Judiasim, Catholicism, Hinduism, and Buddhism? The look on her face when I corrected her ‘teachings’ regarding the Catholics, and my Catholic upbringing, schooling, and parochial school experience was completely PRICELESS. However, she no longer runs her mouth about how Catholics worship the Pope, so it was worth it!

It seems to me that YOU, sir are the one who is holding himself up to be better than the rest of us slobs!

Since the Bible is MANS’ interpretation, and no man who lived during Biblical times is alive to tell us what really happened, it is very dangerous to live by the exact word of the Bible.

And yes, Carrie, apparently he does believe that no matter what you do, if you attend church, and then ask for redemption or absolution for whatever sins you’ve committed, you will be welcomed with open arms.

I am glad my sons are not being raised in such a narrow-minded home! They understand and appreciate ACCEPTANCE and have friends of all colors and creeds!

By The72John

March 21, 2006 01:05 PM | Link to this

I SMELL VICTORY!!!!!!!!!!!! FOR YOU NON BELIVERS OUT THERE GOD IS WATCHING YOU! GOD IS GOING TO WIN!

I mean…if he’s God, then what’s left to “win”? How silly the idea is.

By Dazed

March 21, 2006 01:06 PM | Link to this

The schools should not be teaching children morals, that is the job of parents. I don’t feel that my taxpayer money should be used for Bible study in public schools. It’s time for some parents to realize that they choose to bring a child into the world and it up to them to teach their child morals, respect and a love of God. Not the schools.

By Marie Williams

March 21, 2006 01:06 PM | Link to this

I think it is great to see the opportunity to study the Bible back in schools. It is about time we get back on the right track and teach our children about God. Maybe this will encourage more children to give up drugs and alcohol and find a more meaningful way to live their lives.

By a Concerned Citizen

By Dazed

March 21, 2006 01:06 PM | Link to this

The schools should not be teaching children morals, that is the job of parents. I don’t feel that my taxpayer money should be used for Bible study in public schools. It’s time for some parents to realize that they choose to bring a child into the world and it up to them to teach their child morals, respect and a love of God. Not the schools.

By Jay

March 21, 2006 01:09 PM | Link to this

Some questions:

Which version of the Bible will be taught?

What happens to students whose religions provide alternate views of the Bible than those taught in class?

What about students who don’t follow Judeo-Christian religions but want to take this class?

As a follower of a religion much older than either of the ones in the Bible, why should I have to pay for funding for a class that goes against what I believe?

By A. Footman

March 21, 2006 01:10 PM | Link to this

For a nation that seems to have little or no direction, this will be a good start. At least children will be able to have some comfort in knowing that when all else fails — Jesus is real.

By wayne

March 21, 2006 01:11 PM | Link to this

Just more proof the Christian right wing Zealots are really running the show in this country. Only took these groups of ignorant souls a couple hundred years to get us back to the old ways of which our forefathers ran from to discover this deteriorating new world; but you have to hand it to them, they are persistent, but unfortunately, not too bright nor open minded.

This latest coop will help them get more followers for their war against Islam. Unfortunately since these simpletons can’t stand to open the floor to all thoughts, religions and beliefs, Religion is now what’s wrong with this world. My way or the high way is no way to evolve as a species.

Separation of Church and State is on its last breath in the good ole USA. Where’s my Visa?

By Jay

March 21, 2006 01:14 PM | Link to this

By The72John

March 21, 2006 01:05 PM | Link to this

I SMELL VICTORY!!!!!!!!!!!! FOR YOU NON BELIVERS OUT THERE GOD IS WATCHING YOU! GOD IS GOING TO WIN!

I mean…if he’s God, then what’s left to “win”? How silly the idea is. THE72JOHN YOU HAVE NO FAITH! GOD SEES HOW FOOLISH YOU ARE! I WILL PRAY FOR YOU. I LOVE YOU MAN!!!!!!! GOD BLESS YOU

By high school teacher

March 21, 2006 01:16 PM | Link to this

Carrie, I_Teach, and others, For what it’s worth, I think that those who live one way Monday-Saturday and another way on Sunday will also be condemned. Going to church does not guarantee you a slot in Heaven. There is so much more to it, like how you live every day and whom you place as your Lord. As for the Bible as Lit in schools, well, my personal jury is still out on this one…

By SET

March 21, 2006 01:16 PM | Link to this

Maybe I came on too strong above - I’ve though on this again. So here’s another message.

To those who want the “bible” in public schools:

Your enemies will rejoice and join you in passing these laws. You might even have things your way in the school for a little while.

Then you will quickly learn that the “bible” being used in the classes- elective or mandatory classes - is not your “bible” anymore.

Then one day your children and grandchildren will be sitting in classes taught by Elvira, Mistress Of the Dark (or a reasonable fascimile) concerning Satanism - or you will have children tattooing themselves with “666” and wanting a school club. Or even worse, Hollywood celebrities lecturing on Scientology.

You have lost control of your schools already - do you really believe you could control the path of religious studies once they are introduced into public primary and secondary schools?

People must think for the future an not asking for what they think will make them happy today. We have separated church and state to keep the churches safe and free. Don’t throw that away because you may need your churches if things get any worse around here. You don’t want the government in the pulpit.

Better use all this energy on enforcing English as the national language and imposing reading, math and science and deportment standards on the public schools. It will take our lifetimes just to clean up the existing mess we’ve made since 1970.

By Clyde

March 21, 2006 01:16 PM | Link to this

I keep hearing supporters of this nonsense tout that it is “elective.” However, judging by the sentiments voiced, it is clear that many Christian parents would make it mandatory for their children. That doesn’t sound like free choice to me.

By Mimi

March 21, 2006 01:16 PM | Link to this

To The72John.. to “win” means to be with God in heaven after you die here on earth. and for all the Christians on this blog.. “Blessed are those who are persecuted…for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.” Mathew 5:10

By Nikole

March 21, 2006 01:16 PM | Link to this

Jay-although there are no complete answers to your questions, the piece that I read yesterday makes it seem as if the class is taught in an a literture or historical context and anyone can be in it, whether you know anything about Christianity or not. Also, I am against the war in Iraq, but I have no say in where my tax dollars go. Nothing I can do about it.

By The72John

March 21, 2006 01:16 PM | Link to this

Actually, I’m going to change my mind here. Absolutely! Let’s teach about the Bible and its impact. That way, kids today can learn about the wars, murders, torture, abuse, subjugation of entire ethnic groups, destruction, tyranny, persecution of scientists, execution of heretics, Crusades, etc. that Christianity has been responsible for.

Perhaps then they will see the evil that religion does in the name of “righteousness”.

By John

March 21, 2006 01:19 PM | Link to this

There is no god, but the bible is a good historical text and makes for good writing, e.g., JMS of Bablyon5 fame:

http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/guide/068.html

“My background is as an SF fan myself, so I offer the above without stereotype or pejorative intent. But as well as reading SF, I spent most of my early adult life reading from classical sources. Goethe’s FAUST informs Londo in many ways, as well as the history of early Rome, and Hegelian notions on the role of conflict, and the divine role of the emperor. You’re talking to someone who read Plotinus’ The Aenneads just for kicks, and whose favorite character was Zeno and his paradoxes. You want to talk Plato’s perfect forms? The Socratic method of teaching? Greek tragic structure as embodied in Oedipus? The overall work of Sophocles? The Bible? I’ve read that one cover to cover twice…anyone else in the room who’s done that, raise your hands and tell me you didn’t fall asleep halfway through Numbers and Deuteronomy, the two most boring books in the whole darned thing.”

By The72John

March 21, 2006 01:21 PM | Link to this

THE72JOHN YOU HAVE NO FAITH! GOD SEES HOW FOOLISH YOU ARE! I WILL PRAY FOR YOU. I LOVE YOU MAN!!!!!!! GOD BLESS YOU

I’m not the one who thinks that a being powerful and wise enough to create an infinitely complex universe has the emotional maturity and the need for constant affirmation of a five-year old child.

Sorry, but not believing that God is a petulant child who demands to be worshiped is not the same as denying the idea of God. It’s just giving him a lot more credit than you do.

By Nel

March 21, 2006 01:21 PM | Link to this

If the Old Testement is defined so differently in judeo-christian religions then there is a problem in the teaching. Jews for for the most part follow the Old Testement which is nothing close to how Christians interpret it. That said, shouldn’t their interpretation of the scriptures be the correct one? Wow, if the scriptures were really analyzed as some have done, the birthday of Christ, and many other supposedly religious observances would have to be thrown away. If one ONLY followed the ancient writings that is.

By Mimi

March 21, 2006 01:25 PM | Link to this

to John: the chapters in the Bible you are referring to shows the family lineage of Jesus. He came from the same family as King David. Also there is a difference in just reading the Bible and STUDYING the Bible.

By Wayne

March 21, 2006 01:25 PM | Link to this

Hey The72John….why is GOD a he and not a she? Women give birth/life, why don’t you refer to GOD as her? Why the sexist point of view John? If there is an all-knowing GOD, I would think it would not have a gender as in not human in anyway. And why is he/she always portrayed in our country as white, but in other cultures, he is black, brown, etc?

Something smells fishy John.

Maybe, just maybe, its because it’s all fiction made up to help control the masses by using the all powerful emotions or fear and guilt against the souls it pretends to care for. There are way too many conflicting versions of the same ‘historical’ accounts for me to even consider religion as anything else but hopeful thoughts by insecure, scared souls hoping that their life has more meaning than just a temporary existence on a volatile planet.

By Objector

March 21, 2006 01:30 PM | Link to this

I resent any attempt by the government to educate my children in morals and ethics. It is my right to educate my children in these highly subjective topics and we attend a church for this purpose. Furthermore, I resent the government for attempting to make me pay for educating other peoples’ children on these topics. If I want other children educated on morals, ethics, or religion in general, I will invite them to attend church with me.

By Syed

March 21, 2006 01:30 PM | Link to this

Great Idea !!!! We sure can use our schools to produce Taliban kids. wonder what next

By barbara

March 21, 2006 01:30 PM | Link to this

The biggest problem here is that State TAX DOLLARS are being used to endorse a class in religion. I do NOT want my tax dollars going to teach a religion class. There are enough churches in this state that one can go to for this and it should be kept in the church NOT public schools! Enough already. Next year they’ll be requiring this class, just wait and see….

By Jared Lathem

March 21, 2006 01:34 PM | Link to this

Let’s be real clear about something. The “Separation of Church and State” means that the State will not interfere with religion NOT that religion will be kept out of the state. So now you all may continue.

By Jared Lathem

March 21, 2006 01:34 PM | Link to this

Let’s be real clear about something. The “Separation of Church and State” means that the State will not interfere with religion NOT that religion will be kept out of the state. So now you all may continue.

By John N.

March 21, 2006 01:35 PM | Link to this

Child of God, and who are you exactly to decide what anyone needs in their life? It’s not your decision. Likewise, if you would bother to read some of these posts, you would see that many Christians feel this should be in the proper place.

You’re just looking for your glory here on earth. No need to get it afterwards, you’re getting it now.

By Becca

March 21, 2006 01:36 PM | Link to this

Maybe whomever teaches this course will be able to answer some of the questions that I have asked pastors and they haven’t been able to answer.

By Jared Lathem

March 21, 2006 01:36 PM | Link to this

Let’s be clear about another thing. The reason God is refered to as ‘He’ and not ‘She’ is because HIS Son called him Father.

By Jay

March 21, 2006 01:38 PM | Link to this

I still love you Man!!!!!!!! you can insult me critize me I will still love you. that what Christians do. We love people. Romans: 12:14Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse. 15Rejoice with those who rejoice; mourn with those who mourn. 16Live in harmony with one another. Do not be proud, but be willing to associate with people of low position. Thank you 72john for you great Insight!

By day lily

March 21, 2006 01:39 PM | Link to this

I think it’s aboaut time to bring God into our lives by any means we can.

Look at the postings here, mispelled words galore. Hey maybe we need to get back to spelling classes also. People that can’t spell correctly should not be telling us how or what we need in our schools.

DUH

By Jason

March 21, 2006 01:39 PM | Link to this

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO

This is a very purle and simple - The bible, yes, in theory can be studied as purely an academic text book - but it is simply impossible to teach something from a RELIGIOUS TEXT without discussing RELIGION. Public schools are run by the government - hence the reason they are deemed “government schools” - and this is mixing church and state.

“The Separation of Church and State principle is a part of our historical, legal and political / social heritage and preserves and protects our religious liberty.”

http://members.tripod.com/candst/

“The Constitution: The argument for the separation of church and state begins, not with the text of the First Amendment, but with the nature of the Constitution to which those amendments are attached. In this section we suggest that the Constitution, even in the absence of the First Amendment, grants no ability to the federal government to aid religion. We present two arguments to this effect: (1) that the principles of federalism, coupled with the widespread distrust of the central authority among the states, would have made it extremely unlikely that the states would grant to the federal government any power over religion, and (2) there is no evidence of such delegated power in the text of the Constitution.”

http://members.tripod.com/~candst/tnppage/tnpidx.htm

By Not Overly Religous But..

March 21, 2006 01:40 PM | Link to this

Clyde, you only assume parents will force their kids to take the elective Bible Lit class. You don’t give high schoolers enough credit…when I signed up 30 years ago, my parents weren’t even aware of the class. It was simply my own idle curiosity. Plus I thought it would be alot more interesting than taking Shakespeare. As part of the curriculum, students are required to take some kind of literature. So why not Bible Lit…studying Hamlet cannot give me skills to survive in a global economy either so what’s the difference?

By Jay

March 21, 2006 01:40 PM | Link to this

17Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody. 18If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. 19Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God’s wrath, for it is written: “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,”[d]says the Lord. 20On the contrary: “If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head.”[e] 21Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good. Romans 12:17-21

By Jay

March 21, 2006 01:42 PM | Link to this

17Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody. 18If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. 19Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God’s wrath, for it is written: “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,”[d]says the Lord. 20On the contrary: “If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head.”[e] 21Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good. Romans 12:17-21

By Bobbie Simmons

March 21, 2006 01:43 PM | Link to this

I think this is a very bad idea. If we could be sure the course was always taught by an open-minded person who would not spin the topic as they wished, it might be acceptable.

By Steve

March 21, 2006 01:43 PM | Link to this

I don’t understand why all the uproar about this. The Torah and subsequently the Christian Bible are two of the most significant works of literature in recorded history. If you deny that, then you’re being silly. More wars than I care to count have been started based on ideas and beliefs that have roots in these documents.

When I was in (public) high school, we had a textbook titled “The Bible as Literature.” Am I mistaken in my belief that this course will be offered as a study of the Bible as a work of literature and not as the word of God? If that’s the context, I cannot see how anyone would have issues with this.

On the other hand, I look and see the asinine idiocy on BOTH sides of this debate and I wonder if we have lost all capability for rational debate. Furthermore, the public schools in this state seem to be incapable of basic education, so I wonder if educators in Georgia have the capacity to teach a true work of literature like this, or The Iliad, Dante’s Inferno, or the “easiest” works of Shakespeare (all of which were required reading in my days in high school.)

By Earl

March 21, 2006 01:43 PM | Link to this

…make no law respecting an establishment of religion… I’ve heard it said that the Founders put the most important freedoms first- and in Amendment I they put the quoted phrase before the free exercise of religion, the freedom of speech, the freedom of the press, the right to peaceably assemble and the right to petition the Government for the redress of grievances! The seperation of Church and State was the most important concept in the minds of the Founders…it should be the most important concept in the minds of ‘we the people’. This bill is -honestly- unquestionably unconstitutional.

By Carrie

March 21, 2006 01:44 PM | Link to this

highschoolteacher - I understand what truly makes up a good Christian. My point is that organized religious leaders are not always good Christians and you really have to watch out for who is teaching your children.

Example 1: Jim and Tammy Faye Baker - MANY good Christians lost their life’s savings to PTL because they believed the wrong church leader who used their faith against them to steal from them.

Example 2 (and more recent): Joe Simpson (the father and manager of Jessica Simpson)used to be a youth minister in Texas. They were obviously “good Christians” every Sunday. However, she talked about how they were so poor that they bought clothes and then took them back after they wore them. This is also known as stealing which is a sin.

My point in all of this is that the class to study the Bible is a great idea…..in theory. However, I want to choose who teaches this to MY children as there are too many wolves in sheep’s clothing ready to bastardize the Christian beliefs in order to further their own agenda.

By JM

March 21, 2006 01:46 PM | Link to this

Terrific, maybe this will set a precedent so we can get classes on the Tooth Fairy, Santa Claus and the Flat Earth theory as well.

While we are at, how about classes on Hinduism, Shinto, Judaism, Islam, Buddism, Yoruba, Mormonism…..and while we are at throw in some Scientology just to make Tom Cruise happy.

By The72John

March 21, 2006 01:47 PM | Link to this

*Hey The72John….why is GOD a he and not a she? Women give birth/life, why don’t you refer to GOD as her? Why the sexist point of view John? If there is an all-knowing GOD, I would think it would not have a gender as in not human in anyway. And why is he/she always portrayed in our country as white, but in other cultures, he is black, brown, etc?

Something smells fishy John.*

Not sure why you’re addressing this to me, but…

I would assume because people tend to project their own personal or group identities on to whatever deity they worship. God is male to some and female to others, pale to some, and dark to others. The use of “him” as a pronoun is simply a lingustic convention used by a language that has eliminated gender from its words.

That said, I don’t particularly ascribe to any set of beliefs, nor do I think that any of the accompanying philosophies are strictly accurate historically speaking, though I’m sure that all of them contains kernels of historical truth.

However, I am not so arrogant to dismiss the idea of spirituality out-of-hand, either. “There are more things in heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.”

By candide

March 21, 2006 01:49 PM | Link to this

Burn the damn bible!

By Nel

March 21, 2006 01:50 PM | Link to this

When someone can tell my 8 year-old who made God, then we might be on to something. Most kids deal in absolutes.

By Jennifer

March 21, 2006 01:50 PM | Link to this

This is ridiculous. What, they can’t learn about Jesus and God in church?

I’m so glad I don’t have to worry about this for my own children.

By Becca

March 21, 2006 01:50 PM | Link to this

Good point, Carrie, and also what about all those good Christian men who are confession to affairs!

By Jennifer

March 21, 2006 01:51 PM | Link to this

This is ridiculous. What, they can’t learn about Jesus and God in church anymore?

By Betsey

March 21, 2006 01:53 PM | Link to this

Why can’t thay just make a all religions school? One for each state. So then everyone is HAPPY. Of course who would want to learn over 100,000.

By Betsey

March 21, 2006 01:54 PM | Link to this

Why can’t thay just make a all religions school? One for each state. So then everyone is HAPPY. Of course who would want to learn over 100,000.

By David

March 21, 2006 01:59 PM | Link to this

I would LOVE to see a course on the Bible in Georgia’s public schools—-provided that the text were approached with the same scholarly criteria of criticism used in examing any other text. Which is, of course, extremely unlikely. Such a course would actually examine the history of the composition of the collection of documents—-over a period of about 1000 years—-which makes up “our” Bible (and which version would be taught?). A serious course would have to look at internal contradictions, borrowings from the mythology of surrounding cultures, differing points of view, cultural influences (sexism and approval of slavery, for instance), obvious divergence from historical accuracy, the very wide spectrum of theological approaches taken by the writers, and the astounding advances in biblical critical study of the last 50 years. THAT would really be a course Georgia could use! The biblical literalists—-who seem to think the King James version somehow just fell from the sky—-would go NUTS if you taught a REAL class on the Bible.

By The72John

March 21, 2006 01:59 PM | Link to this

accompanying philosophies

Sorry - fingers typed ahead of my brain. I meant to say “accompanying mythologies”.

By SET

March 21, 2006 02:00 PM | Link to this

Why would GA have the dumbest students in the USA? Does GA not put Iodine in Salt and Iron in flour products? Is there some other vitamin and mineral deficiency that makes your children (and therefore adults) more stupid then the entire country? Is the racial makeup of GA so different from every other state that “The Bell Curve” and related works explains a statewide lower average IQ?

I’ve been to Atlanta once or twice and it didn’t look any dumber than MO (and I drove across MO).

Is it true that a statewide lower IQ average is behind this notion that you can get what you want by inserting religion into public schools (and not have it used against you)?

The road to hell is paved with good intentions…Smart people bridle their good intentions and stay out of other people’s business.

By Bob S

March 21, 2006 02:00 PM | Link to this

Having any sort of Bible course in school, is one sure way to start a religious war. There are 650+ different Christian denomination each with their own “correct” interpretation of scripture. They can/will never agree. Nor will they allow any challenge to their God endorsed “correct” beliefs.

By Chris

March 21, 2006 02:00 PM | Link to this

After reading the first dozen or so comments, I find it interesting that those in favor are advocating teaching the kids about Jesus, morals, et al. For them, it’s all about religion - the Christian religion. And, yet, the course is supposed to be the Bible as History and Literature, not as Religion. Maybe this is why we shouldn’t have it!

By quint

March 21, 2006 02:03 PM | Link to this

Bad idea. Most of you seem to forget that this has nothing to do with teaching morals. It is to teach the history and culture of the Bible. Students need to study the Bible in order to understand literature, but in many classes it will be used as a means to win souls to Jesus. That is wrong in schools. As a teacher I know I could teach the Bible as literature and history, without expressing my faith and religious beliefs, but I know of other teachers at my school who would want to teach the class so that they could have easy access to needy souls. This is a lawsuit waiting to happen. What if a Muslim or Hindu took the class to learn the history of the Bible and its influence on Western culture and literature, but instead was bombarded each day with testimonies of faith and truthfulness of the Gospels. Lawyers, get ready.

By quint

March 21, 2006 02:04 PM | Link to this

Bad idea. Most of you seem to forget that this has nothing to do with teaching morals. It is to teach the history and culture of the Bible. Students need to study the Bible in order to understand literature, but in many classes it will be used as a means to win souls to Jesus. That is wrong in schools. As a teacher I know I could teach the Bible as literature and history, without expressing my faith and religious beliefs, but I know of other teachers at my school who would want to teach the class so that they could have easy access to needy souls. This is a lawsuit waiting to happen. What if a Muslim or Hindu took the class to learn the history of the Bible and its influence on Western culture and literature, but instead was bombarded each day with testimonies of faith and truthfulness of the Gospels. Lawyers, get ready.

By wayne

March 21, 2006 02:15 PM | Link to this

My apologies The72John. My comments were written to Jay’s post that you copied in your yours.

Jay needs to get out more.

By Moses

March 21, 2006 02:20 PM | Link to this

Who will be teaching this Bible class - a Muslim? Buddhist? Atheist?

Our kids need tools to enable them to function in this society. Religion starts at home, and in the Church or synagogue.

Tax dollars should not be used for this !

By alias

March 21, 2006 02:21 PM | Link to this

The bible is a work of fiction. There is no God, Jesus did not die and come back, and die again for our sins, that is just impossible I don’t care who you are. Religion is just a crutch. People who need religion to get through life have absolutely no back bone…..When I hear someone say “I have put this in the hands of God/Jesus” I hear - I can’t handle what is being thrown at me, so I just wont deal with it.

When you die, you die, you will not be walking around “heaven” blissfully and happy with millions of other souls. There is no heaven or hell, and christians are a bunch of hyprocrites.

And I don’t want someone teaching this kind of stuff to my child.

By Monica

March 21, 2006 02:23 PM | Link to this

Of course Bible should be added into the school! That’s why so many people are lost today. Without God we are nothing!

By LG

March 21, 2006 02:23 PM | Link to this

Gensis 1 Chapter 26. “We will create man in our imagine.” Sounds like two gods to me - mother and father. And in the missing gospels, Jesus teaches about mother god. Left those gospels out, but didn’t fix the line.

By JP

March 21, 2006 02:27 PM | Link to this

LG, good point - I’d love to see both a Bible class as well as a Bible History class that offers some study of the “other gospels” and Nag Hammadi texts.

Blog and Tan

By The72John

March 21, 2006 02:29 PM | Link to this

When a religious fundamentalist has been reduced to spouting bible verses, he or she has admitted that he or she is incappable of thinking for him or herself.

Congratulations, Jay. You have officially ceded control of your brain.

Condoms and Lesbians and Winter Holidays are OK in Public Guvment School. Why not a little about Jesus?

What…lesbians aren’t entitled to public education now?

“Blessed are those who are persecuted…for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.” Mathew 5:10

Awesome - gay men and women everywhere can go to sleep to night secure in the knowledge that they are bound for Paradise.

By Sarah

March 21, 2006 02:30 PM | Link to this

No it shouldn’t be an elective…maybe they should work on getting Georgia’s academics out of the bottom of the US ranks before they think of adding an elective teaching the Bible….besides it should be a religious elective that teaches all religions not just an elective on the bible. What ever happened with the separation of church & state??? If children want to learn or the parents want their kids to learn about religion or the Bible take them to church, join a bible group, church group, sunday school or enroll them in a private religious school - NOT a PUBLIC one….. I go to church but I don’t feel religion has a place in public school. Georgia should be working on getting their academic standards up to what the rest of the country is at, not lagging behind & not working to get a bible elective added….

By sue

March 21, 2006 02:35 PM | Link to this

You can have God without the Bible. Native Americans did not have the Bible but acted out of the God spirit to the newcomers (until the newcomers with their Bibles began killing Native Americans for land)

If we all acted in a godly manner then the world would be better. A class looking at the Bible as a text would be great. It would help with critical thinking skills. Also, a class on the other religious texts would be great.

By Sarah

March 21, 2006 02:36 PM | Link to this

No it shouldn’t be an elective…maybe they should work on getting Georgia’s academics out of the bottom of the US ranks before they think of adding an elective teaching the Bible….besides it should be a religious elective that teaches all religions not just an elective on the bible. What ever happened with the separation of church & state??? If children want to learn or the parents want their kids to learn about religion or the Bible take them to church, join a bible group, church group, sunday school or enroll them in a private religious school - NOT a PUBLIC one….. I go to church but I don’t feel religion has a place in public school. Georgia should be working on getting their academic standards up to what the rest of the country is at, not lagging behind & not working to get a bible elective added….

By Jay

March 21, 2006 02:39 PM | Link to this

Wayne: Thanks, I really Apreciate you giving me someone else to add to my prayer list. God is just using you guys to draw me closer.I already know that the Bible is going to be a Elective in Public Schools. Its Going to happen and both you and 72john can Philisophy all day> Its Going to Happen and when it does you will Remeber how Proud and Arrogant you were with me.Im just going to Bask in Gods Glory. God is going trying to Save Our Children Souls and You Guys are just Hard Hearted and Cold towards what God is Trying to Achieve.

By Peppermint

March 21, 2006 02:40 PM | Link to this

I graduated 24 yrs. ago from a very small town high school in E. TN. One of class electives for literature in high school was Bible. At the beginning of the class the teacher said “This class is taught as a literature course - not as religion”. We had no issues - no irrate parents or students - and this class turned out to be one of the most enjoyable classes I ever had - including college.

By Becca

March 21, 2006 02:42 PM | Link to this

Patti, can we talk about the spelling bee kid. This topic has been done to death.

By Canicum

March 21, 2006 02:43 PM | Link to this

There’s no doubt that the Judeo-Christian traditon is important to understanding the history of the U.S. and it would be helpful to have knowledge about it. However, as a Christian, a parent, and a citizen, I have a few questions: 1) What version of the Bible will be used: NRSV, NIV, the Catholic version, Jewish version? What will be the academic value of the version used? What ancillary materials will be used? Will historical criticism be allowed, tolerated or mandated? Will the nature and content be decided at the state, local or teacher level? What about other religions? For example had we known more about Islam before the current crisis, we might have benn able to make better decisions. As of this moment, without knowing any details, I believe that both those who hope to get “religion” into the schools and those who hope for for a broader and deeper knowledge to history, will be disappointed.

By T-Man

March 21, 2006 02:48 PM | Link to this

Separation between Church and State= Can’t buy Beer or liquor on Sunday in most southern states. The US defends Israel= worried about the book of Revelations. Churches are tax exempt= I don’t no why please add to this if you can. In God we trust= On all american Money. Do you get the picture. Only when it fit’s the need of some there is a separation between church and state. This is a elective course take it if want to or don’t. Teach other religions to keep the masses happy and bring those who believe closer to the one who created us.

By perry

March 21, 2006 02:53 PM | Link to this

You have to remember that even though it is an elective, it appears to endorse Christianity as the most important or dominant religion. And I don’t see how teachers can teach something like that without their personal point of view coming out. Last of all, it looks like a ploy for the legislators to appease their religious conservative constituency(to get their votes) without directly looking like they are.I think it is not a good idea.

By high school teacher

March 21, 2006 02:54 PM | Link to this

Carrie, I agree with your point and share the same concern about who would teach a class like this. I don’t think I could… I would not be able to present the Bible merely as a text and not interject my personal convictions with it.

You are right about all of your examples. Christ stated that it would be better for a millstone to be hung about one’s neck and thrown into the sea than to mislead a potential believer, as all of the people you mentioned have done.

By GOB

March 21, 2006 02:54 PM | Link to this

Jay - Do you realize how incredibly creepy a response like that is? It is like listening to a robot.

By ray

March 21, 2006 02:55 PM | Link to this

You have to remember that even though it is an elective, it appears to endorse Christianity as the most important or dominant religion. And I don’t see how teachers can teach something like that without their personal point of view coming out. Last of all, it looks like a ploy for the legislators to appease their religious conservative constituency(to get their votes) without directly looking like they are.I think it is not a good idea.

By RH

March 21, 2006 02:55 PM | Link to this

I don’t see anything but problems arising from a class on the Bible being taught in public schools. What Bible will the schools use? We christians ourselves cannot agree on what version is suitable. Many believe that only the KJ is acceptable, while most Baptist ministers today use the NAS and Mormons have their own version. Also, who will teach these classes and what will their training be?

By San S

March 21, 2006 02:56 PM | Link to this

I think it is a good idea to have Bible study as an elective. Our forefathers founded this country’s government on the belief of the Bible and God not the Koran nor the Tora or whatever other religions out there. Our freedom is based on the Bible and God’s word. We have had many people to come into our country and try to change our beliefs. The kids in our society should be able to study what our country is backed on. “In God we trust!”

By Joe Mama

March 21, 2006 02:57 PM | Link to this

*“Blessed are those who are persecuted…for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.” Mathew 5:10

Awesome - gay men and women everywhere can go to sleep to night secure in the knowledge that they are bound for Paradise.*

HAHA. Someone inserted a … where BECAUSE OF RIGHTEOUSNESS is supposed to be. Sounds like 72John attended “How to think like a Liberal” instead of the Bible class offered at his school.

By Joe Mama

March 21, 2006 02:58 PM | Link to this

*“Blessed are those who are persecuted…for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.” Mathew 5:10

Awesome - gay men and women everywhere can go to sleep to night secure in the knowledge that they are bound for Paradise.*

HAHA. Someone inserted a … where BECAUSE OF RIGHTEOUSNESS is supposed to be. Sounds like 72John attended “How to think like a Liberal” instead of the Bible class offered at his school.

By SET

March 21, 2006 02:58 PM | Link to this

Sue,

The Indians attacked the settlers first. Unfortunately for them they didn’t finish the job and the settlers stopped trying to get along. They used their superior intelligence and sciences to wipe all the indians out and conquer the entire North American continent

The surviving Indians now have the nicest casinos in California and are getting rich fast.

Nothing ever works out as planned.

Another reason to keep any religion you cherish out of the clutches of the public schools.

By SET

March 21, 2006 03:01 PM | Link to this

Patti…

I have an idea, let’s have a blog about whether “The Bell Curve” - Race and physical & IQ disparities - should be taught in public schools?

Or do we just let the college educated in on the secret.

By Jimmy

March 21, 2006 03:02 PM | Link to this

As our society becomes dumb and dumber and other countries soar over the accomplishments of our primary and secondary schools, and we are taking time to fight about adding courses on biblical study? Another frightening step towards this country abandoning science and research. I just wonder when the religious right will take up torches once again, as their relations did 3,000 years ago when they burned the Library at Alexandria.

By Joe Mama

March 21, 2006 03:02 PM | Link to this

“Blessed are those who are persecuted…for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.” Mathew 5:10

Awesome - gay men and women everywhere can go to sleep to night secure in the knowledge that they are bound for Paradise.

Ummm, 72John, where the … is Because of righteousness should go. I think we know now who not to ask to teach on of these new classes.

By GOB

March 21, 2006 03:04 PM | Link to this

Jay - Do you realize how incredibly creepy a response like that is? It is like listening to a robot.

By The72John

March 21, 2006 03:04 PM | Link to this

Its Going to Happen and when it does you will Remeber how Proud and Arrogant you were with me.Im just going to Bask in Gods Glory. God is going trying to Save Our Children Souls and You Guys are just Hard Hearted and Cold towards what God is Trying to Achieve.

Ok, seriously…Learn2CapitalizeCorrectly. Your rambling is hurting my eyes.

Now, I always love it when a religious fanatic who has just spent several pages saying, in essence, I know more than you, you’ll see, you’ll see one day, neener, neener, neener, accuses someone else of being arrogant.

Y’all can seriously dish it out, but you can’t take it, can you? And when challenged, you retreat completely into self-affirming circular logic.

By Lee

March 21, 2006 03:04 PM | Link to this

THE BIBLE! Is that the Old Testament, the New Testament, the King James version? What about the Koran and literature from other religions?

And what about my money? I don’t want it spent on religion just because parents are too lazy to teach thier children or take them to houses of worship. If you want your kids to know about religion, YOU TEACH THEM AND YOU TAKE THEM TO CHURCH, SYNAGOGUE, MOSQUE, etc.

In this day and age, who do so many people not understand “separation of church and state.”

By GOB

March 21, 2006 03:07 PM | Link to this

“Our freedom is based on the Bible and God’s word.”

Uhhh…no, it isnt. Our freedom is actually based on NOT having to follow the bible and “God’s word.”

By tagteam

March 21, 2006 03:07 PM | Link to this

The bible was the first book ever written. lol!! Shani you apparently never took any history of the world when you were in school.

By GOB

March 21, 2006 03:09 PM | Link to this

“The Indians attacked the settlers first. Unfortunately for them they didn’t finish the job and the settlers stopped trying to get along.”

Interesting reading of history. If a group of people showed up in your backyard and started building a house, would you not be a little upset? And once they were done, they were mad at you for being on “their” land, and stopped trying to get along??

And i am assuming by “Superior intellect and sciences,” you mean diseases that they had built up immunity to…right?

By Larry Skinner

March 21, 2006 03:11 PM | Link to this

Religion has played a part in history .I should be taught as to how it has effected the history of our country and the history of the world. Religion meaning all religion. Some good influence as well as bad influence… If it is going to be taught. It should be taught in the context of history not in the context of the bible. The purpose of the bible is to bring people to Christ not to be read as a history. This is a school people not a church outreach

By Larry Skinner

March 21, 2006 03:11 PM | Link to this

Religion has played a part in history .I should be taught as to how it has effected the history of our country and the history of the world. Religion meaning all religion. Some good influence as well as bad influence… If it is going to be taught. It should be taught in the context of history not in the context of the bible. The purpose of the bible is to bring people to Christ not to be read as a history. This is a school people not a church outreach

By Larry Skinner

March 21, 2006 03:12 PM | Link to this

Religion has played a part in history .I should be taught as to how it has effected the history of our country and the history of the world. Religion meaning all religion. Some good influence as well as bad influence… If it is going to be taught. It should be taught in the context of history not in the context of the bible. The purpose of the bible is to bring people to Christ not to be read as a history. This is a school people not a church outreach

By Mimi

March 21, 2006 03:12 PM | Link to this

I can’t believe that this is even up for discussion. Church and State are seperate. I do not want my tax dollars being spent for a religion I do not practice. Are they going to offer every religion as an elective course? We have enough to worry about with kids in school, why should be put another issue before them? If I want my children to learn about Christian beliefs, I will send them to a Christian based church or school. One of the advantages of a “public” school is the fact that the curriculum is not religion based.

By tagteam

March 21, 2006 03:14 PM | Link to this

• Puplic schools no longer encourage morals or integrity since prayer and the topic of God was prohibited.* Morals and integrity are totally separate from religion. Public schools can teach morals and integrity without ever mentioning God. The Greeks did it, the Romans did it, the American Indians did it, the Chinese did it, the Japanese. It’s obvious where most of you bible thumpers got your education!

By Not Overly Religious But...

March 21, 2006 03:14 PM | Link to this

T-Man..thank you! You are absolutely right. If church and state have no business intermingling, why can’t I buy my beer at the Quik Trip on Sundays? It’s against the law. Which leads right back to the faithful servants of Sundays and what they deem to be right or wrong. Separation of church and state most certainly is playing both sides against the other when it’s relevant. George Bush prayed openly after 9/11. How much more “stately” can you get than the President? And he interjected faith into his political position. Indeed he’s not enforcing his beliefs, but what if I didn’t want to see him praying? I don’t care one way or the other, it’s just principal with me.

By Glenn

March 21, 2006 03:15 PM | Link to this

The goal isn’t to use legislation so kids can learn the bible as an elective. The goal is to use kids & the bible to get legistators reelected. Somewhere if there is a God I imagine he is either angry or laughing . I guess it depends on what god you have created for yourself & the all mighty ones views on election years.

By arktechfan

March 21, 2006 03:19 PM | Link to this

stupid, stupid, stupid!! Teach reading, wrting and arithmetic in schools, the bible at home and in church. what part of this do people not understand!!

By SET

March 21, 2006 03:22 PM | Link to this

GOB,

No, not diseases. Weaponry. The white settlers were not looking to wage war against all indians at first. But they came from a culture that when provoked or scared enough could easily outdo the Indians on slaughter.

They had the means of manufacturing guns of various caliber and firing speeds. The Indians didn’t even now how to build a 2 story mud hut.

The smallpox on the blankets was inspired, though. 1st documented use of biowarfare in North America.

Beware of paleface bearing blankets…

My point is that the settlers foolishly tried to co-exist with the Indians. I don’t think Sue was taught to acknowledge that. The politically correct BS taught now is that the poor nice Indians tried to play nice but the mean old white men killed them. It was not that easy. In both cases the on-the-scene parties fought while the further away principals (Indian and British, etc) wanted to talk peace and trade.

Both sides had their reasons. War was inevitable. The superior culture won. The pacifist settlers were the first to die and with them out of the way the more ruthless survivors had a clean bill to exterminate the opposition. The British were horrified at the violence committed by the settlers - couldn’t understand the need for it. The job was done and done until there was no viable Indian Culture left on the continent.

Look around. The same game is unfolding again. Cattle do not make contracts with meat packers.

And we are seriously talking about allowing the public schools to get into religious instruction.

Brave New World!

By Not Overly Religious But...

March 21, 2006 03:23 PM | Link to this

arktechfan…bible lit is reading. Hence the name literature. Stupid, stupid, stupid…what part of this do you not understand.

By another teacher

March 21, 2006 03:23 PM | Link to this

Wow, considering the heated issue that this topic surely is, the comments today have been surprisingly civil for the most part. Unless Patti has been deleting all day)

By sjr

March 21, 2006 03:24 PM | Link to this

perfectly summed up glenn!

By The72John

March 21, 2006 03:25 PM | Link to this

HAHA. Someone inserted a … where BECAUSE OF RIGHTEOUSNESS is supposed to be. Sounds like 72John attended “How to think like a Liberal” instead of the Bible class offered at his school.

I quoted exactly another post. Perhaps the irony and humor of that escapes you.

Now, when you insert “liberal” into any argument in the manner you have done so, you have automatically lost. I realize that whatever shock jock you rely on for the news has programmed you to think that if you don’t like or understand something, call it liberal, but the world is actually more complex than that.

By C

March 21, 2006 03:25 PM | Link to this

I am concerned about public schools teaching a Bible course. The Founding Fathers were very concerned about separation of Chuch and State based on personal experience in Europe and in the colonies, and reflecting the influence of the Scottish Enlightenment. Offering it as an elective mitigates some of my concern but not all. How would one control for “peer pressure” to take the course, or protect those who might not want to take it? I would prefer a World Religions course that contrasts and compares Western Christianity, Eastern Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism and others. There are many similarities among religions and and they have influenced each other greatly. Thomas Aquinas openly thanks both Jewish and Muslim scholars for their ideas. I recommend that persons consider reading The Histroy of God by Karen Armstrong, it is very thought provoking. Finally, would a Bible course teach about the other Gospels (Gospel of Thomas for example) or other competing Christian thought such as the Gnostics?

By PTM

March 21, 2006 03:25 PM | Link to this

As a teacher, I think teaching the Bible could be an excellent idea if done within certain boundaries. First, if a Bible only class is taught in the public schools it should be taught from the perspective of the Bible as literature. The Bible is one of the most influential books ever written and a literate person should be aware of that. Second, in conjunction with the Bible as literature a second elective course in comparitive religions should be taught. If we all knew more about the basic tenets of the major religions there might be fewer misunderstandings of a religious nature. Done properly, the design of these courses might open a window to more interdisciplinary study in our high schools. For instance, as a science teacher I would love to teach a course with a title like, “The Twenty Greatest Ideas In Science”, that would allow the elimination of artificial barriers between the sciences. A comparitive religions course could examine all major religions from a variety of perspectives and give students some understanding of similarities and differences among the World’s Great Religions.

By another teacher

March 21, 2006 03:26 PM | Link to this

Wow, considering the heated issue that this topic surely is, the comments today have been surprisingly civil for the most part. Unless Patti has been deleting all day)

By John White

March 21, 2006 03:28 PM | Link to this

I consider myself a Christian, but understand that the First Amendment was put into the Constitution for a reason. This country was NOT set up to support a national religion. It was set up such that we have a freedom to practice whatever religion we so desire. My dad does not believe, but that does not mean that I do not look at him differently.

Offering this class tells the world that we support a certain religion with our tax dollars. We learn about the Bible at church and even though I do believe, I consider it to be wrong to support this type of class. Some have said that this would only show the Bible in a historical content, but come on, the teachers would be prone to use the class to HEAVILY pressure students in terms of religion.

If these classes are to be offered, then you MUST make sure that evangelicals are not used to teach this course. Use people who understand about our freedom of religion. Promoting Christianity outside the classroom is what Christians are supposed to do, but going against the law of the land and publically supporting a religion is wrong. While this is not intended to do that, some parents will force their kids to take this class just as if it were a Sunday School class. That is why we have Sunday School, so that we can learn more about what we believe in. As a result, this DOES not belong in public schools.

If we were to support a religion publically, then we would be saying that should be a national religion. The forefathers of our Constitution set up the First Amendment in order to prevent that after looking at how bad things got in European countries where there is a national religion.

So, for those of you who think that these classes should be offered, there are private schools out there who already offer these type of classes. Otherwise, these classes DO not belong in public schools. Whether or not you believe in this, we can spread Christianity by LEGAL means, such as through mission trips and other means that are not considered to be either unethical, illegal, or a combination of the two.

Also, these classes could be used in order for the teacher to impose his or her beliefs on certain subjects based on the teacher’s interpretation of Christianity. This definitely is not right. So, we must spread the Word through legal means and not use taxpayers’ money.

Of course, if we wanted to do use taxpayers’ money, then we would have to offer courses that talk about the Koran and other texts from all the different religions around the world. So, it is your choice, offer courses discussing the major texts from other religions in addition to this, or keep everything to do with religion out of public schools.

By GOB

March 21, 2006 03:32 PM | Link to this

SET - Do you not believe that the majority of all native americans were killed by disease? Also, the “poor, nice indians” were already living here, so any group coming in and trying to settle what was essentially their land without any componsation would inspire some violence. Can i come build a house in your backyard for free and then move you out of your house?

Of course the indians were going to fight. If the indians had been able to cross the Atlantic, do you think the British would have let them takeover land without a fight? Both sides fought, but one was here first, so the settlers trying to take their land could easily be seen as the first shot.

By Jay

March 21, 2006 03:33 PM | Link to this

72john its ok, Your Grand Kids and there Kids after them will be reading the Bible in Public Schools. God is attempting to touch your Hard Heart today. I know your are trying to Brain-Wash people. You are just Satan Servant: You think you are Smarter Than God! And his Word has Know Place in your Lives. Your whole Family After you will be Christians. They will be Proclaiming the Gospel of Jesus Christ to the Farther Ends of the Earth. Your Insults just Allow me to Continue to Preach Gods Word to you. God is going to Show you He Means Business.

By Nikole

March 21, 2006 03:38 PM | Link to this

set-I am going to put you on my prayer list for that “superior culture” comment. Stay on the topic. GOB, don’t let set start in on some foolishness today.

By SET

March 21, 2006 03:40 PM | Link to this

In previous posts teachers have warned that addition of any new classes or subjects into public education will water down reading, writing, and arithmetic to the point that the system would collapse more so than already.

Add religion to this madness and the hours spent on picketing the schoolhouses every week would further detract from the basics that we are failing to cram into the kids minds before they have to go before a job intervier or a military application.

Do you have any idea of the percentage of black 18 year olds who are disqualified from military service because of failure on the entrance exams? Will teaching them ‘that old time religion help anyone get a job or get into the service (and out of the ghetto?). And exactly who are we referring to when we speak of the “failing students”.

Spend school time on the basics - avoid the culture wars - and maybe more of these kids will stay alive long enough to pay my social security.

By sjr

March 21, 2006 03:42 PM | Link to this

jay- i feel sorry for you and i have a good feeling that your children are going to veer away from you extremism…at least i hope so…

By Carrie

March 21, 2006 03:42 PM | Link to this

Oh good Lord, Jay…….I have one suggestion for you - less time in Church and more time in English class. Sheesh - you’re embarrassing God.

By The72John

March 21, 2006 03:44 PM | Link to this

72john its ok, Your Grand Kids and there Kids after them will be reading the Bible in Public Schools. God is attempting to touch your Hard Heart today. I know your are trying to Brain-Wash people. You are just Satan Servant: You think you are Smarter Than God! And his Word has Know Place in your Lives. Your whole Family After you will be Christians. They will be Proclaiming the Gospel of Jesus Christ to the Farther Ends of the Earth. Your Insults just Allow me to Continue to Preach Gods Word to you. God is going to Show you He Means Business.

Fixed - (by the way, Jay - keep ranting. This is entertaining)

72John, its ok. Your grand kids and their kids after them will be reading the Bible in public schools. God is attempting to touch your hard heart today. I know you are trying to brain-wash people. You are just Satan’s servant. You think you are smarter than God! And his Word has no place in your Life. Your whole family after you will be Christian. They will be proclaiming the Gospel of Jesus Christ to the farthest ends of the Earth. Your insults just allow me to continue to preach God’s Word to you. God is going to show you He means business.

By Ignatius

March 21, 2006 03:47 PM | Link to this

So long as the Bible is studied as literature, as any other piece of literature, I see nothing wrong with these classes. However; it goes without saying any such class as this is immediately going to be put under a microscope to prevent evangelizing, which is how it should be. Public schools are government funded entities and are subject to seperation of church and state. Just as I oppose having political views or slants aired in church, I would also oppose personal unsolicited religious views being forced upon a captive audience. If it is done correctly, I think it is a great idea.

By KTM

March 21, 2006 03:47 PM | Link to this

What a foolish idea. When Georgia’s victims of public education, er, I mean students, begin to score as the nation’s best in “readin’, writin’, & ‘rithmatic” it may be time to look at ‘religion’ electives

Besides, It would only lead to more silly and pointless debate - how do you “teach” the Bible in school; folks wouldn’t be able to agree to what Bible version do you use - Old Testament, King James, Roman Catholic, Orthodox Catholic, …

By Nikole

March 21, 2006 03:50 PM | Link to this

Set-Did you know that a decline in church attendance for inner city minority youth, also correlates to less achievement in that group? Students used to read the difficult text of the Bible and participate in public speaking outside of a school setting, which some think helped them to achieve in school. Just something to think about.

By SET

March 21, 2006 03:55 PM | Link to this

Hi Nikole!

It’s all just history repeating.

Yes there are superior cultures. They are the ones that don’t get massacered off and live to write the history books. They are the societies who build dams, electrical powerplants and roads and economies that last. You never find them in sub sahara africa. We’re seeing a huge rise of them in Asia.

Pray all you want. You’ll need the excercise at the rate change is coming in this world. And this country.

As for our topic - read my posts. Each one goes back to this insane proposal to inject religious wars into the already failing public schools. We have plenty of problems and fights without picking this one.

I propose we line the students up rain or shine in neat rows in front of the school buildings and have them all recite the pledge of allegence. Then those who pass inspection can march silently and single file into the school buildings and take the seats they are lucky to have in their first period class. This would be much more do-able. I did it.

No religion in public schools. It belongs in homes and churches.

By God

March 21, 2006 03:56 PM | Link to this

Jay, play nice! Don’t make me come down there!

By Melinda

March 21, 2006 03:58 PM | Link to this

All these people complaining about Georgia. I bet your not originally from here so all I have for you is one word BYE.

By SET

March 21, 2006 04:00 PM | Link to this

Nik,

Inner City Minority youth have been destroyed by government policy that arranged for them to not have fathers - just sperm donors. Falling Church attendance is a byproduct of the destruction of the black family by Lyndon Johnson’s Great Society.

There is no Mommie and Daddy to take them to church.

Single mothers with too many kids from different men can’t possibly control pubescent males. So the males become rouge elephants. Rogue Elephants don’t go to any church. They do what they want, when they want. They only respect physical violence.

They wouldn’t sit in class for religious studies either…

By Amazed (Independent Woman)

March 21, 2006 04:01 PM | Link to this

SET,

You are always complaining about the Hispanics in CA.

If you replace the terms White Settlers and the Indians - with the Hispanics and the Americans, it would leave me to believe you should not be complaining about our new settlers. Why do you complain and not welcome them? It sounds as if you believe the Indians should have welcomed the white settlers with open arms.

If you look at history: the settlers changed the language when they arrived to English, kicked the Indians aside and starting reproducing until this day.

I know you’re going to say the Settlers made the country better, but I wonder if the Indians would agree. I guess the settlers killed so many Indians, we will never find out.

I apologize Patti, for getting off topic. But, I had to pick on SET today.

By katsuke

March 21, 2006 04:02 PM | Link to this

GA’s got many many faults. I’ll complain about it all I want and I’m from here. Born and raised. Bye Melinda.

By Disinterested

March 21, 2006 04:03 PM | Link to this

Bibles are great, as long as they are also offering elective classes on judaism, islam, satanism, wickery (whatever it’s called), and scientology.

Otherwise its simply another attempt by the religious right to shove their religion down everyone else’s throat. What’s next, mandatory ten commandments in all the courtrooms? Oh….

This is brought to you by the same faith-based (read: anti-intellectual, anti-science, anti-reality) folks who don’t believe in evolution and think the earth was created 10,000 years ago.

And what is their evidence for this? Why, the bible! How circular, just like all of their reasoning!

By The72John

March 21, 2006 04:05 PM | Link to this

All these people complaining about Georgia. I bet your not originally from here so all I have for you is one word BYE.

Well, I’m originally from here. Frankly, your post is case-in-point. Georgia DOES have one of the worst educational systems in the country, evidenced by the fact that you can’t correctly use “you’re” when “you’re” supposed to.

Burying your head in the sand and saying “Don’t you talk about my state” doesn’t solve a bloody thing.

By sjr

March 21, 2006 04:07 PM | Link to this

are you going somewhere melinda?

By Dan

March 21, 2006 04:08 PM | Link to this

The idea of including the Bible in public schools makes me sick. The book is, at best, a nice assortment of fables, written by multiple authors, which can be interpreted in myriad ways. Some people choose to live their lives based on morals they find in those pages. Good for them. A lot of people in this world choose to use other books (Koran, various East Asian texts, you name it) and do the same thing. Are we going to include those texts? My feeling is keep this stuff out of the public domain and remand it to your private home or place of worship. That’s where it belongs. Period. The expanded study of religion as an academic endeavor is best left to college; I had at least 5 religion courses in Judeo-Christian and Asian belief systems.

By Glenn

March 21, 2006 04:10 PM | Link to this

Melinda ,If no one came down here Georgia’s test scores would be behind even Alabama’s & Mississippi’s. Transplants like me have brought so much to this state. That being said I really hope no one else decides to move here. The sprawl & traffic are killing me .

By PJ

March 21, 2006 04:10 PM | Link to this

I completly agree with there being offered an elective in the BIBLE. Why not. The countries laws were founded upon the Bible. If the students in GA are allowed to be taught “theories” of evolution then they should be able to be taught the TRUTHS of the BIBLE. If we start talking about tax dollars and what we agree and disagree with then they need to have evolution as an elective. Religion has had a major part in past history. You cant teach some subjects with out including religion. Its not possible and it would be dumb to think that you could.

BY the way KTM there are different translations of the BIBLE. However the OLD TESTAMENT is the BIBLE not a translation. There is the KING JAMES VERSION, NIV, NKJV, NLB, NASB, NLT, Message, Amplified, the list goes on. However if the GA schools are going to offer the BIBLE as an elective, they need to make sure they have someone in there who knows what they are talking about. someone who has studied the BIBLE and has taken classes on it. I have studied the bible for 4 yrs, have read it daily since I was 5 and have spent countless hours doing research. I myself still have much to learn from this priceless jewel. By the way did you know the number one selling book in all of history is the BIBLE? Every year more than 100 million copies a year!!! The BIBLE speaks for itself. It should be included as an elective.

By PJ

March 21, 2006 04:12 PM | Link to this

I completly agree with there being offered an elective in the BIBLE. Why not. The countries laws were founded upon the Bible. If the students in GA are allowed to be taught “theories” of evolution then they should be able to be taught the TRUTHS of the BIBLE. If we start talking about tax dollars and what we agree and disagree with then they need to have evolution as an elective. Religion has had a major part in past history. You cant teach some subjects with out including religion. Its not possible and it would be dumb to think that you could.

BY the way KTM there are different translations of the BIBLE. However the OLD TESTAMENT is the BIBLE not a translation. There is the KING JAMES VERSION, NIV, NKJV, NLB, NASB, NLT, Message, Amplified, the list goes on. However if the GA schools are going to offer the BIBLE as an elective, they need to make sure they have someone in there who knows what they are talking about. someone who has studied the BIBLE and has taken classes on it. I have studied the bible for 4 yrs, have read it daily since I was 5 and have spent countless hours doing research. I myself still have much to learn from this priceless jewel. By the way did you know the number one selling book in all of history is the BIBLE? Every year more than 100 million copies a year!!! The BIBLE speaks for itself. It should be included as an elective.

By Rick

March 21, 2006 04:13 PM | Link to this

This bill is another attempt at using public funds for Christian studies. I would feel differently if it was a course that studied several religions and encouraged students to compare and contrast the fundamental beliefs of each. Since it studies only the Bible, it is just another effort to brainwash our students. Let the students take part in a comparative study of the world’s religions so that they can better understand other cultures.

By Michael

March 21, 2006 04:13 PM | Link to this

Am I the only one who finds it interesting that many of the people in support of this idea, who claim that people who disagree with it hate G-d, aren’t even capitalizing G-d’s name? (If you are wondering why there is a hyphen in place of an o, it is because I am Jewish, and it is against Judaism to spell out G-d’s name when it could be erased or thrown away.)

As for whether this is a good idea or not, the answer is no. Although it is an elective, there is not an elective for the teaching of the Torah or Quran. Thus, one religion is being favored.

Moreover, for everyone who says that kids must be taught this due to all the violence and alcohol in school, I have two questions. 1) Why can’t you teach it yourself? 2) If you read the Old Testament, you will see numerous stories with alcohol and violence. Noah got drunk, and Pharaoh enslaved the Israelites (seems like a big bully to me).

If you want to teach it at home, thats fine. It is your right to teach whatever you want to your children. But having a class in school that focuses on the Bible is tatamount to the establishment of a religion by the government.

Lastly, before you criticize someone for being unholy, at least have the respect for G-d to capitalize His name.

By PJ

March 21, 2006 04:13 PM | Link to this

I completly agree with there being offered an elective in the BIBLE. Why not. The countries laws were founded upon the Bible. If the students in GA are allowed to be taught “theories” of evolution then they should be able to be taught the TRUTHS of the BIBLE. If we start talking about tax dollars and what we agree and disagree with then they need to have evolution as an elective. Religion has had a major part in past history. You cant teach some subjects with out including religion. Its not possible and it would be dumb to think that you could.

BY the way KTM there are different translations of the BIBLE. However the OLD TESTAMENT is the BIBLE not a translation. There is the KING JAMES VERSION, NIV, NKJV, NLB, NASB, NLT, Message, Amplified, the list goes on. However if the GA schools are going to offer the BIBLE as an elective, they need to make sure they have someone in there who knows what they are talking about. someone who has studied the BIBLE and has taken classes on it. I have studied the bible for 4 yrs, have read it daily since I was 5 and have spent countless hours doing research. I myself still have much to learn from this priceless jewel. By the way did you know the number one selling book in all of history is the BIBLE? Every year more than 100 million copies a year!!! The BIBLE speaks for itself. It should be included as an elective.

By Jay

March 21, 2006 04:17 PM | Link to this

its Ok, John: I know the Truth! I understand why Im having this Conversation with you. Our World as we know it needs to change. There is so much Sin in People Lives the God is Attempting to Restore People to Acknowledge Him: In All Places: I dont have to defend myself> God is Glorified>. People have Decided that we dont need the Bible and look at the State of the World, We have Deseases due to immorality, Poverty due to Greed,War do to Hatred! We need a Change: so Bad! Its Time. This whole Country has a Whole has gone to Hell. Im just standing up for God. Put Prayer back in schools,and Bible Study and our children will be in a Safe and Moral Place.God Bless you 72John

By The72John

March 21, 2006 04:19 PM | Link to this

And PJ represents example #37 on this blog alone why this class is a bad idea.

Let’s learn our basics first - grammar, spelling, punctuation, history…PJ’s post represents severe deficiencies in all of these areas.

By pj

March 21, 2006 04:20 PM | Link to this

The Bible is not just one book, but a whole collection! There are 66 books split into two sections. 39 in the first largest part, called the OLD TESTAMENT. And the second part, the NEW TESTAMENT has 27. The OLD TESTAMENT covers a sweep of history, from the creation of the world, to about 400 BC. Its books include poetry and history, prophecy and law. But they all tell the story of God’s troubled relationship with his people.

The NEW TESTAMENT, also called the ‘Injil’ in part of the world, covers the amazing life of Jesus, and what followed on. There are four accounts of Jesus’ life, called the ‘Gospels’, written by those who knew Him. Then, in the book called ‘Acts’ there is the story of how His followers carried His message around the world. Letters to Christian groups follow, many of them written from prison. It was written over a period of 1600 years. Written by more than 40 authors of every sort - kings, poor people, fishermen, poets, government officials, teachers, prophets. Written in three languages. Written on three continents - Asia, Africa, and Europe. Is there any other book in daily use by millions of people, around the world, parts of which were written over 3000 years ago, yet which still speaks to us today? There are other writings as old as this, but they are all in museums, and have no relevance to the world today! There are about 6,800 distinct languages in the world, the Bible has been translated (at least in part) into around 3000 of those languages

the BIBLE is not fables. You can base history upon the BIBLE. History included many of accounts that were written in the BIBLE. The place where people go wrong is living for a religion, not the GOD. Religion will do nothing for you, but God will. How can people explain how a book written over so many years can carry one theme, and never ever contradict itself? How? Newspapers and TV news broadcasts cant even do that day to day. The BIBLE is the #1 selling book in all of history! over 100 million copies are sold a year!

By Joe Mama

March 21, 2006 04:21 PM | Link to this

72John, You have obviously missed the entire subcontext of my post. Perhaps you should remove the close minded blinders which have so easily found a nice groove in your reasoning. Perhaps then progressive thinking can enlighten the darkness of your verve.

The vortex of your philosophy is comparable to swiss cheese in that its numerous holes make it amusing. Please continue the tirade of your irrational and comical analysis of the world around you.

By Michael

March 21, 2006 04:21 PM | Link to this

Can we have an elective on masturbation? It could count for P.E.

By The72John

March 21, 2006 04:21 PM | Link to this

Jay, seek help before you wind up hurting someone. Remember, it’s not just Islamic fanatics who blow people up because of religious hysteria.

By GM

March 21, 2006 04:22 PM | Link to this

If I recall correctly, this will not be a bible study class. It will be discussing it as though it was any other book. If so, I think some religious right parents will be angry when they realize that it doesn’t necessarily teach their point of view of their religion.

By Melinda

March 21, 2006 04:22 PM | Link to this

Nah, I ain’t going no where. Born and raised here and I love the south. I see you apparently are afraid of teaching your children the history of the bible. Nobody is going to be twisting their arms and making them get SAVED. I believe teaching our children the history of the bible would be great! The biggest question is how many of the children out there would actually be interested in learning about the bible and not body building, lifting weights, planting trees and flowers, cooking, drawing. All of these others are electives and I haven’t heard any big arguments of why your children shouldn’t learn about them. Good grief people its an elective not a mandatory class. If you don’t want your children taking the class then tell them not to sign up for it. Because we all know how well your children listen to you.

By pj

March 21, 2006 04:23 PM | Link to this

THE72JOHN

I dont care what you have to say about my “grammar,spelling,puntuation,history”. I am not here to impress you. This is a blog not my thesis!

By Bryan

March 21, 2006 04:23 PM | Link to this

I’m an athiest and I think it’s a good idea. It’s not about the religion itself. It’s about the history behind it and what the texts mean it context with the people who believed it. I would much prefer a Comparative Relgions class, but it;s a start.

By Rick

March 21, 2006 04:24 PM | Link to this

This bill is another attempt at using public funds for Christian studies. I would feel differently if it was a course that studied several religions and encouraged students to compare and contrast the fundamental beliefs of each. Since it studies only the Bible, it is just another effort to brainwash our students. Let the students take part in a comparative study of the world’s religions so that they can better understand other cultures.

By Bryan

March 21, 2006 04:24 PM | Link to this

I’m an athiest and I think it’s a good idea. It’s not about the religion itself. It’s about the history behind it and what the texts mean it context with the people who believed it. I would much prefer a Comparative Relgions class, but it;s a start.

By Catherine

March 21, 2006 04:25 PM | Link to this

This is an opportunity for the religous-right to get their God into the schools in any way they can. Give them an inch and they’ll take a mile. In a similar vein, “don’t pray in my school, I won’t think in your church.”

By Kevin

March 21, 2006 04:25 PM | Link to this

This is not a “Christian Nation” anymore. There just simply happens to be more Christians then other religions in the US, but that doesnt make Christianity BETTER in any way then Islam, Buddhism, etc. If you offer elective bible classes, you must offer elective classes for all other religions as well for balance.

By pj

March 21, 2006 04:26 PM | Link to this

JAY,

I sooo agree with you. I think this is a time wasting debate. people will one day realize that there is one GOD and one Way, when everything is said and done. Then and only then will some people realize the importance of the BIBLE elective and prayer in our LIVES and Schools.

By Mike K

March 21, 2006 04:26 PM | Link to this

PJ you might want to look up the definition of a scientific theory before you start typing. The SCIENTIFIC THEORY of evolution explains the mechinisms that cause evolution.

By Mike K

March 21, 2006 04:27 PM | Link to this

PJ you might want to look up the definition of a scientific theory before you start typing. The SCIENTIFIC THEORY of evolution explains the mechinisms that cause evolution.

By SET

March 21, 2006 04:29 PM | Link to this

Amazed, I miss you!

I have no ax to grind with any culture. I do have a problem when my government fires the people and imports new people they can use as slaves. Or adopts policies in 1963 that (they knew) will result in the utter distruction of the black family and black males so largely being in jail, prison, unemployed, illiterate, in crime or sick with AIDS. This would not have happened without the Great Society. I’m old enough to remember when the the vast majority of black families had a Mother and a Father.

Over history superior cultures replace inferior ones and in time they die out to be replace yet again with new cultures that are tougher than the old one. Eventually every culture seems to rot from within as they forget the lessons of history and think they can do whatever feels good. Some men have charted these historical shifts in 60 year cycles claiming that that is the lifespan of a generational memory. As these cycles go on, the later generations forget the lessons of history and re-create old problems. Now let’s see, what was going on 60 years ago??

Remember the Roman Empire? The USA has had a long run. Wonder what will happen when we get into a battle royal with Asia for the Arab oil production? And what will happen to the “Old Americans” when they are replaced with the mexican indians who are being run out of Mexico by the (white) Mexican government? (hint: watch your DUI statistics)

Things change - and I think we are at a moment in time where we are on the edge of something new. People can easily misread my postings if they believe I have sympathy or pity for anyone who lets bad things happen to them and their tribe.

If something bad politically or economically happens to you - you have let it happen. Certainly the childish whine of “racism” explains nothing. The most reviled ethnic group (take your pick over the years) can rise from nothing to national domination upon being introduced to a nation given IQ, family integrity and ambition.

So I have no concerns for the well being of the blacks, whites, Jews, Asians, Hispanics, etc. - each group has their own fate which they make for themselves. I just hate to watch slow suicides. I do believe that with study of history people large and small can select their own path to success. Too bad history isn’t popular.

That is why we mustn’t let religion into our public schools or our government. Historically it is really counter-productive.

PS: superior cultures have good weapons and no qualms about using them. I’m not referring to the quality of their museams or their cooking.

By The72John

March 21, 2006 04:30 PM | Link to this

*72John, You have obviously missed the entire subcontext of my post. Perhaps you should remove the close minded blinders which have so easily found a nice groove in your reasoning. Perhaps then progressive thinking can enlighten the darkness of your verve.

The vortex of your philosophy is comparable to swiss cheese in that its numerous holes make it amusing. Please continue the tirade of your irrational and comical analysis of the world around you.*

I get it - you’re trying to imitate Al Sharpton, right? You’re using big words that don’t actually go together to try to sound smarter than you are, is that it?

Silly rabbit - big words are for grown ups.

By pj

March 21, 2006 04:32 PM | Link to this

Just because someone (JAY) is pationate about what they believe in does not mean they are going to blow people up. People are soooo confused when it comes to different beliefs and way of religion. There are certain groups of people who are violent and will force you to believe their way or no way. However, those who really truly believe in the ONE TRUE AND ONLY GOD all know, its someones choice whether they are going to accept GOD as their GOD or going to reject Him and accept their destination. If you dont know the difference between the way people believe and worship you dont need to be narrow minded and say all GOD believers are killers. It would be like me saying all DEMOCRATS are stupid.

By SET

March 21, 2006 04:33 PM | Link to this

Michael:

Joycelyn Elders - Clinton’s Surgeon General - had a point that the kids should be playing with themselves and staying in school instead of playing with each other and making babies and VD.

Too bad Clinton fired her for saying it.

Another topic for Patti!

By Jay

March 21, 2006 04:33 PM | Link to this

John:) I know you are Exhalting yourself to look Good before Man in all your Responses its Ok. Deep down your Insecure! God is Bigger than All your Philisohpy

By PJ

March 21, 2006 04:34 PM | Link to this

OKay, OKay.

EVOLUTION IS BASED UPON ITSELF. NOT ON COLD HARD FACTS. IT DATES ITSELF TO ITSELF. THE BIBLE AND CREATION IS BASED UPON EVIDENCE. THANK YOU

By PJ

March 21, 2006 04:36 PM | Link to this

I think people are getting confused!

We are not talking about people teaching religion. We are talking about people teaching the Bible. Its not a BIBLE study. Its not a cram the family bible down your throat sessions. its an elective. A class.

By Nikole

March 21, 2006 04:36 PM | Link to this

SET- What groups are these? Where are they located? How did they do this?

The most reviled ethnic group (take your pick over the years) can rise from nothing to national domination upon being introduced to a nation given IQ, family integrity and ambition.

By D L

March 21, 2006 04:36 PM | Link to this

How can anyone deny this class since it is only an elective? I live in Florida and took this class in high school in the 70s. Its time for some folks to loosen their collars and start worrying about themselves instead of worrying about what others choose to do with their own lives.

By PJ

March 21, 2006 04:39 PM | Link to this

JOHN 3:16

FOR GOD SO LOVED THE WORLD THAT HE GAVE HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON THAT WHOSOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM SHOULD NOT PERISH BUT HAVE EVER LASTING LIFE.

By The72John

March 21, 2006 04:39 PM | Link to this

EVOLUTION IS BASED UPON ITSELF. NOT ON COLD HARD FACTS. IT DATES ITSELF TO ITSELF. THE BIBLE AND CREATION IS BASED UPON EVIDENCE. THANK YOU

Now…that is the funniest argument ever. I think you have it backwards, lunatic.

John:) I know you are Exhalting yourself to look Good before Man in all your Responses its Ok. Deep down your Insecure! God is Bigger than All your Philisohpy

Jay, let me simplify this for you…I don’t think God is stupid…I think YOU are stupid.

By Peter

March 21, 2006 04:40 PM | Link to this

What is the matter with Bible study in the churches where it belongs??? Public schools, paid for by taxpayers of all different religions, should not be forced to pay for classes for one.

By Jay

March 21, 2006 04:41 PM | Link to this

PJ Amen Brother, Love you dude

By fluff

March 21, 2006 04:42 PM | Link to this

PJ, please give specific examples and the appropriate references that state the Bible and creation as evidential.

By PJ

March 21, 2006 04:44 PM | Link to this

JOHN,

GROW UP! I think you need to back down your crossing over the line of blogging to personal attacks. Evolution is not really a science at all; it is a philosophy or an attitude of mind. Evolutionists admit that no one has ever seen any real evolution (from one kind of creature to a more complex kind of creature) take place. If evolution is true. WHY PLEASE TELL ME WHY there are not HALF APE people walking around today? Or things evolving? hmmmm who’s the loony now?

By Mike K

March 21, 2006 04:46 PM | Link to this

“EVOLUTION IS BASED UPON ITSELF. NOT ON COLD HARD FACTS. IT DATES ITSELF TO ITSELF. THE BIBLE AND CREATION IS BASED UPON EVIDENCE. THANK YOU”

Evolution is based on fossil evidence that has been scrutinzed by using the scientific method. The same method that is used in physics and chemistry.

What scientific evidence is the creation story based on? The Bible? Which creation story should we use as “scientific” evidence? The one in Genesis 1 or the one in Genesis 2? Sorry, it’s difficult for me to take the Bible seriously as a science book when it states that a bat is a bird (Leviticius 11:19) or that a rabbit chews it’s cud (Deut 14:7).

By Glenn

March 21, 2006 04:48 PM | Link to this

Thank’s PJ ! So all of you idiots who haven’t seen the evidence about how women were formed from the rib of man need to get out your bible & learn the facts. Pj you need to watch more public television & less tvland.

By katsuke

March 21, 2006 04:49 PM | Link to this

I don’t have to worry about my child signing up for it. I have to worry about him attempting to file a lawsuit. I’d rather his time be spent actually learning, less drama. When Gay Clubs aren’t allowed and Bible studies are allowed, there’s no equality. The comparison to cooking and gardening doesn’t hold water, those aren’t personal belief systems that have led to wars and ethnic cleansings. It’s nice that you trivialize such horrendous matters to mere “gardening” though. Second, I’m glad it’s an elective but history has shown that some electives (foreign language, study skill classes, business ed) can become mandatory. And, it would be impossible to find an appropriate teacher for this. As evidenced by this blog today, there doesn’t seem to be a human left in GA without a strong opinion on the matter. Students in high schools learn their teacher’s character more than other lower grades, there’s no way the teacher’s opinion and bias could be kept separate from instruction. I’m all for a Comparative Religion class where history, text, and ideologies are discussed. But, mere “Bible Analysis” belongs elsewhere - church, home, religious private schools, backwood revivals, etc. This country can’t even teach early American History correctly, but for some reason the Christians think the teaching of something as controversial and personal as the Bible can be handled with ease. Both curriculums listed in the 2nd article posted have huge faults, evidence that the class cannot be taught in a simple fact-based manner as some of the less “fanatical” supporters here have posted. Just wait until a Muslim kid doesn’t have a choice but to take a Bible class because all the other electives are Full. That’ll be interesting. :)

By The72John

March 21, 2006 04:50 PM | Link to this

GROW UP! I think you need to back down your crossing over the line of blogging to personal attacks. Evolution is not really a science at all; it is a philosophy or an attitude of mind. Evolutionists admit that no one has ever seen any real evolution (from one kind of creature to a more complex kind of creature) take place. If evolution is true. WHY PLEASE TELL ME WHY there are not HALF APE people walking around today? Or things evolving? hmmmm who’s the loony now?

I’m too tired to deal with the incredible ignorance that this paragraph displays. Can anyone else take a crack at this knucklehead?

By Michael

March 21, 2006 04:52 PM | Link to this

hmmmm who’s the loony now?

PJ, I believe in G-d (although not this class), but you never saw creation either.

By pj

March 21, 2006 04:53 PM | Link to this

How did humans (and everything else) come into existence? The only explanation you will find in public school and university textbooks is the theory of evolution. Yet, no scientific, provable evidence supporting the theory of evolution has emerged since Charles Darwin popularized it in 1859.

If there is no support for the theory of evolution, why is no alternative taught? I can only think of two reasons:

The Bible’s creation account is not “politically acceptable.” The authors, book publishers, and school boards do not have all the facts.

Do you wish me to continue? I studied this for at least 4 yrs. I can on all day. My final semester I studied how to defend and prove creation and controversial issues of the BIBLE. However I do not wish to enlist people who do not want to hear this because then I too would be in the wrong much like JOHN. JAY keep on teaching your children the way. My parents did and they never shoved it down my throat and now I have chosen to believe the BIBLE and to do something for the LORD with my life. They wont resent you for it! BY the way I am a sister not a brother! amen to you also my brother!

By Jay

March 21, 2006 04:53 PM | Link to this

72john: God Bless you John: you really need some love in your heart before you will become a Chrsitian: You think by your words you can hurt me! I love God and there is nothing you can say to me that will ever change my Passion for The Father the Son and the Holy Spirit: Jesus was Crucified for the Whole World: He just wants us to Accept him, we just need to realize our children are Destroying Each Other in Schools all over the Country, The need Guidance: Spiritual Guidance. I Love you John I will Pray for you God Bless you for Know. I have to Go to Work: Have a Great Evening PJ God Bless you

By Nick

March 21, 2006 04:54 PM | Link to this

A few thoughts …

Schools are under no obligation to include this class in the curriculum if this bill is passed. I’d be willing to bet a significant majority of the schools won’t even consider offering a Bible class.

First, teachers would have to be screened and trained. That equals money and extra work for all parties involved. Good luck.

Second, administrators won’t want to deal with the can of worms that will undoubtedly be opened. Have fun with all the angry parents (no matter their reasons) in the front office. And heaven forbid (no pun intended) a teacher slips up and says something “offensive” in a religion class. The potential for lawsuits? Sounds like controversy and headaches that schools would rather avoid.

Bottom line, the hassle that comes with teaching this class won’t be worth it. Administrators won’t be willing to put in the extra man-hours it will take to make this class work. Simply too many obstacles and distractions.

The bill will be, then, not worth the paper it’s printed on. Anyone else think this might just be something state lawmakers will be able to pad their resume with come election time? It sure strikes a cord with a large block of voters …

By CHE

March 21, 2006 04:54 PM | Link to this

Come on people…. its an elective which means your child does not have to participate. Last time I checked though this country was founded on the principles and doctrines of …. oh yeah… thats right, the Bible. What better way to understand the foundation of the very country we live in than to study the Book upon which it was created! The problem is that most of you would just assume spit on this country and what it stands for and to you I say… go get a shack in Iraq!

By Independent Thinker

March 21, 2006 04:57 PM | Link to this

I would love for our state government to spend less time on religious studies in schools, ten commandments on display, and other religious issues and spend MORE time on improving basic education, state services to all, and ridding government of corruption and nepotism. There are religious schools, churches and Sunday school to handle teaching religion. I’d be happy if the schools taught math and science! Government should do their real job as zealously as this!

By Michael

March 21, 2006 05:00 PM | Link to this

Would everyone who thinks this class is a good idea approve an elective that tries to disprove the existence of G-d?

By Heather

March 21, 2006 05:00 PM | Link to this

Just another reason to homeschool our children.

By Harry

March 21, 2006 05:01 PM | Link to this

This is one of the many reasons I refuse to raise my child in the GA school system when I have one. I do not want my tax money going to endorse a singular religion’s text. If it were encompassing all major relgions than I would see no problem with it. The class would be almost like a theology class taught in colleges around the country. However the singling out of Christianity and the Bible shows how sneaky they are trying to be. Remember Christians have not been proven right….The majority of religions abide by a moral code. Morality was not invented by the christians….I think they forget that in all of their overzealous attempts to make everyone just like them. Trying to decieve the public by inserting this “elective” course into our PUBLIC STATE SUPPORTED SCHOOLS reminds me of actions of someone who christians believe is the greatest “deciever”

By Harry

March 21, 2006 05:01 PM | Link to this

This is one of the many reasons I refuse to raise my child in the GA school system when I have one. I do not want my tax money going to endorse a singular religion’s text. If it were encompassing all major relgions than I would see no problem with it. The class would be almost like a theology class taught in colleges around the country. However the singling out of Christianity and the Bible shows how sneaky they are trying to be. Remember Christians have not been proven right….The majority of religions abide by a moral code. Morality was not invented by the christians….I think they forget that in all of their overzealous attempts to make everyone just like them. Trying to decieve the public by inserting this “elective” course into our PUBLIC STATE SUPPORTED SCHOOLS reminds me of actions of someone who christians believe is the greatest “deciever”

By pj

March 21, 2006 05:04 PM | Link to this

JOHN,

I dont have time to argue with you. You too will be one of the millions one day that will say that GOD is one true LORD and you will be forced to bow before Him because you too will believe but will it be to late? Will you still be blogging on AJC when you die and never made a choice to believe in GOD? God has given all a free will to either choose GOd or if you reject Him you accept the results and the destination. I too have a choice and I have chosen to speak with people who desire to know the truth. So while you are still here in GA or where ever you are afraid and frightened where you will spend your eternity and confusing those around you. I will be in other cities and other countries spreading the truth about the WORD OF GOD to thousands. However if they dont want to hear it, I wont crame it down their throat. Its their choice. I told you about the decision all must make. I’m done.

By Pat

March 21, 2006 05:05 PM | Link to this

We have enough trouble getting teachers that have mastered the subjects they now (are supposed to) teach. How in the world will we get teachers who are qualified to teach Bible - or anything religious. This is a mistake. “Parents exert your authority and responsibility!” Teach this at home.

By Retired Teacher

March 21, 2006 05:05 PM | Link to this

I am a Christian, but I feel sorry for any teacher who has to teach these courses. I took both old and new testament as a student at YHC, but that is a Methodist college. No public school teacher will ever be able to please everyone while teaching Bible courses.It won’t matter whether they are electives or not. It will be so hard not to say the “wrong” or “right” thing on something so personal as religion. I see lawsuits out the wazoo!

By Gerald

March 21, 2006 05:06 PM | Link to this

If you want to study religion/philosophy, graduate from high school first, then enroll in a seminary. By then, a kids mind is more capable of deep contemplation, allowing them to think for themselves and make their own decisions. Many bloggers have said that other scriptures would have to be included in the elective to be fair, otherwise we shouldn’t use tax dollars to teach any one religion.

By Laf

March 21, 2006 05:09 PM | Link to this

religious right is determined to use the government to promote their religious beliefs. Complaining, hollering, and yelling will not stop them. The only organization that can stop this is the Georgia ACLU. I am sending my $20 in today. I have been beatened up enough in Iraq by the right wing phanatics. I will also remember this when i go to the polls.

By Jeff

March 21, 2006 05:12 PM | Link to this

About there not being a teacher in GA who could teach this class:

I CAN. Matter of fact, I’m probably one of the few of ANY political persuasion that could be said of.

In my class, I don’t flaunt my beliefs OF ANY STRIPE. But neither do I lie if a kid asks me a direct question. If they ask me if I go to church, I reply “yes”. If they ask me what kind, I say “Independent Baptist”, etc. I’ve HAD Bible classes - at Kennesaw State - where the teacher flaunted her ultra liberal bias. And I know how miserable that makes students. Trust me, I became the apologist I am directly due to that class.

My certification is math, but how many math-types do you know that can hold their own - even win the occassional debate - in a discusssion about Shakespeare with a British stage actor or US Law with a federal prosecutor? I’ve done both.

But I’m not making the case to hire me to teach the class. Indeed, I wouldn’t want it, for one reason: I ABHOR politics in the schools IN ANY WAY. I deal with it enough teaching math, aint no way I’d volunteer for the added political firestorm of this class.

By Tommy Beall

March 21, 2006 05:14 PM | Link to this

I think it’s a novel idea- the bible is fiction; it would be interesting reading, debatable, and would therefore be fun, stimulating, and thought provoking…just as any fictional book is…my only concern would be the morons who attempt to “teach it”…

By Jw

March 21, 2006 05:16 PM | Link to this

The sad part of this whole thing is the people who are supporting this proposal are not the least bit concerned with educating children about the Bible, they simply want to “convert” the students. The problem is most of them do not know the history of the Bible, how it came to be, or actually what it says. They go to church on Sunday to be told what to believe the Bible says. I was raised in church my whole life, was a deascon, youth minister and sunday school teacher. Fortunately about two years ago I was saved from church people! They don’t read the Bible…if they did they wouldn’t preach hate and condemnation. But they don’t, they listen to a preacher who may or may not be educated. Preachers use lighting rod statements to elicit responses and donations. Today’s church is all about money and politics, the real Jesus was pushed out!

By Richard T Hill Jr

March 21, 2006 05:18 PM | Link to this

This has got to be one of the most insane ideas ever to come out of this state. I guess none of our elected officials have read the constitution. When do Koran lessons start? When do Tora lessons begin? How about classes on Wiccan Theology? Stupid is as stupid does. Folks are killing each other (and have been for years) in the middle east over “religion”…. and now these idiots want to start that stuff over here. American Taliban “christian style”. Facism comes carrying a cross and draped in the flag.

By katsuke

March 21, 2006 05:19 PM | Link to this

Another subject, sex education. When I was in school, sex ed was the controversy. Should it be taught via schools, should it be required, and most importantly, what should be taught - abstinence, abortion, adoption, diseases, premarital sin, father rights, responsibilities of both parents, AIDS, homosexuality, etc. Now the sex ed I received was mostly a health class type lesson. It was factual, avoided all the controversial topics except AIDS and other diseases. That was the solution and the environment of that time. Today’s sex ed, is an entirely different environment with a government trashing abortion rights, homosexuality a religious sin or mental defect, etc. Abstinence-only education is strongly taught, supported by the uber-Christian government leaders, student pledges are signed, and children aren’t learning the facts via the schools that they used to. The sex ed serves a political, cultural, and religious purpose all at once. So, although everyone is jumping on SET, I must agree that a Bible Studies classes is vulnerable to way too much influence from whatever belief society is clinging to at that time. The Bible Study Class you have today will most certainly not be the Bible Class of tomorrow.

By Not Overly Religious But...

March 21, 2006 05:20 PM | Link to this

Nick, you have probably given the most legitimate reply on here today. It’s completely down the middle without any slant and you hit on obvious problems that the rest of us failed to see, including myself.

By Not Overly Religious But...

March 21, 2006 05:21 PM | Link to this

Nick, you have probably given the most legitimate reply on here today. It’s completely down the middle without any slant and you hit on obvious problems that the rest of us failed to see, including myself.

By Im Ok Your Ok

March 21, 2006 05:24 PM | Link to this

I Home school my childern and take them to church on Sundays. Boy am I a Loser. (NOT)

By Former Georgian

March 21, 2006 05:36 PM | Link to this

So, as Georgia’s schools continue their descent to the bottom, the best idea the legislature can come up with is to make it possible for schools to offer an elective on the bible. Not math. Not science. Not even language skills.

We recently moved out of Georgia, partly due to the poor quality of the schools, and the level to which education and learning are valued in the state. Georgia doesn’t have a world class school system in the entire state (and yes, that includes N. Fulton and other Atlanta suburbs). I am a Georgia native, and I hate to see my home state mired in ignorance, but it is what it is. I won’t look back, but I will raise my kids in a place where they will get a good education. More power to all of you who stay and try to improve things. Your perserverance is admirable. Good luck.

Careful Georgia, that “whooshing” sound you hear is the rest of the world passing you by. Again.

By The72John

March 21, 2006 05:39 PM | Link to this

Come on people…. its an elective which means your child does not have to participate. Last time I checked though this country was founded on the principles and doctrines of …. oh yeah… thats right, the Bible. What better way to understand the foundation of the very country we live in than to study the Book upon which it was created! The problem is that most of you would just assume spit on this country and what it stands for and to you I say… go get a shack in Iraq!

Um…no. The country was founded on democratic ideals largely drawn from classical Athenian democracy. But thanks for playing.

I think perhaps YOU would be better off in the middle east, where religiously intolerant governments are the norm. Apparently, that’s what you would prefer.

Bye bye! Hop a plane!

I CAN. Matter of fact, I’m probably one of the few of ANY political persuasion that could be said of.

Uh huh. Sure, you sound perfect! In fact, the way you say “ultra-liberal bias” (I’m guessing that means she didn’t teach the bible as innerrant, is that right, Mr. Tolerant?) just makes me all a-tingle with the prospect of someone who is obviously a religious zealot teaching a course like this.

Ooo. There’s another tingle.

By Former Georgian

March 21, 2006 05:39 PM | Link to this

So, as Georgia’s schools continue their descent to the bottom, the best idea the legislature can come up with is to make it possible for schools to offer an elective on the bible. Not math. Not science. Not even language skills.

We recently moved out of Georgia, partly due to the poor quality of the schools, and the level to which education and learning are valued in the state. Georgia doesn’t have a world class school system in the entire state (and yes, that includes N. Fulton and other Atlanta suburbs). I am a Georgia native, and I hate to see my home state mired in ignorance, but it is what it is. I won’t look back, but I will raise my kids in a place where they will get a good education. More power to all of you who stay and try to improve things. Your perserverance is admirable. Good luck.

Careful Georgia, that “whooshing” sound you hear is the rest of the world passing you by. Again.

By SET

March 21, 2006 05:44 PM | Link to this

Nikole,

Best discussion ethnic power accumulation in the USA is Thomas Sowell’s “Ethnic America” which will be on Amazon.Com.

When the starving Irish immigrants (See “Angela’s Ashes)turned up in the USA in large numbers they were treated like dogs. Within a few generations they had captured the city governments of the major cities of the USA and taken over the police and fire department civil service from NYC to Los Angeles. The Irish Big City Mayors selected presidents in smoked filled rooms.

The Jewish immigrants were reviled in the late 19th century. The rest is history. Despite being so unpopular that they weren’t allowed to move into “good” white neighborhoods by deed restrictions and the Ivy League Universities put caps on Jewish admissions, etc etc, they now dominate finance, media, merchandising, and many industries despite being only 2 and a half percent of the population. Yet in (approx?) 1940 the USA turned back a boatload of Jewish refugees to their deaths in Hitler’s concentration camps. The true extent of their reach is partially obscured because of those who have “passed”.

The Chinese haven’t done badly despite not being allowed to immigrate chinese women for a long period in the past. Just men for labor. Compare their income and education levels with any other ethnic. They were treated horribly and not allowed access to finance, commerce and law school for many generations.

Many of these groups were casually physically assaulted and openly mocked as late as 1960. Now they own the best homes in the best neighborhoods and send their children to the best schools at a rate far higher than the previously dominant WASPs.

Racism and hate by third parties cannot keep a group down economically. Sowell has done similar research across time outside of the USA discussing ethnic groups in other countries.

The best way to keep a group down is to give them enough rope (or blankets) and let them hang themselves.

For example the Civil rights movement of the 1960s, and what has happened to the blacks. Be careful what you wish for, you may get it. Affirmative Action and Welfare Entitlements, etc. They came with a hook. No other group asked for or received anything of the sort.

Sorry for being Off Topic Patti - but I want Nikole to understand the basis of my earlier comments. I still feel we have enough to handle with the schools this decade without adding religious wars to the mix. And that’s what you’ll get with this bill.

By Michael

March 21, 2006 05:53 PM | Link to this

So politicians, do you still think this is such a HOT idea? Does this blog not give you an idea of how divisive teaching a Bible-based course will be? I will not vote for any politician who voted for this law.

By Michael

March 21, 2006 05:54 PM | Link to this

So politicians, do you still think this is such a HOT idea? Does this blog not give you an idea of how divisive teaching a Bible-based course will be? I will not vote for any politician who voted for this law.

By Jeff

March 21, 2006 06:07 PM | Link to this

72John,

Actually, her bias was evident by multiple things, including the fact that she held discredited “scholars” as the ultimate authority in her class. She clearly preferred the teachings of the Jesus Seminar and taught that they were the ultimate in biblical scholarship. However, I researched the issue THOROUGHLY and found that not even biblical scholars who don’t believe the Bible at all give any credit to the Seminar.

When I brought up perfectly valid arguments, she dismissed them as “not scholarly” - even though my very arguments were based on similar arguments by an Emory University professor of Theology. (Whose degree ranked higher than my professor’s, particularly in field.)

Other arguments she dismissed as not valid because my scholarship was based on proving my case and not analyzing my source. (Which is ridiculous, because the whole case I built revolved around proving my source.)

In other words, she did the typical political move of dismissing anything she didn’t agree with.

In contrast, and I even use this in my math classes, when a kid comes up to me with a new idea, I say two simple words: “Prove it.” Once the case is proven to be true, it is accepted. Anything not proven is either left open for discussion (if no proof can be made either for or against) or canned if it is proven false. (Though in my math class I do insist they show the work to me the proven way on the test.)

Flat out: The only viewpoint I let stand in my classroom is this: Truth prevails. Whatever your political persuasion, truth is truth. (Period.) If a conservative makes a true statement, it stands. If a liberal makes a true statement, it also stands. If they conflict, we debate. (Though I do - AHEM, Patti! - cut off the debate once all points have been made, or or it starts devolving to personal/ petty attacks.)

By Billy

March 21, 2006 06:36 PM | Link to this

An elective course that studied religion in general would be much more practical and helpful. Wouldn’t it be better to educate students on all of the world’s major religions. A general knowledge of all major religions could lead to greater understanding and tolerance.

By Billy

March 21, 2006 06:36 PM | Link to this

An elective course that studied religion in general would be much more practical and helpful. Wouldn’t it be better to educate students on all of the world’s major religions. A general knowledge of all major religions could lead to greater understanding and tolerance.

By Heather

March 21, 2006 06:38 PM | Link to this

Once again, I’m embarrassed to call this my home state. The air is thick with the suffocating self-righteousness of Christian fundamentalists trying another end run around the bedrock constitutional principle of separation of church and state with an “elective” bible study class. Here’s a novel idea: how about offering mandatory and, more importantly, effective classes on the basics like English, Math, and History, so our kids aren’t hosting the perennial last place spot in national average SAT scores? It’s like spraying air freshener in a recently used bathroom - just a temporary nice smell to cover the stench of real foulness.

By Heather

March 21, 2006 06:39 PM | Link to this

Once again, I’m embarrassed to call this my home state. The air is thick with the suffocating self-righteousness of Christian fundamentalists trying another end run around the bedrock constitutional principle of separation of church and state with an “elective” bible study class. Here’s a novel idea: how about offering mandatory and, more importantly, effective classes on the basics like English, Math, and History, so our kids aren’t hosting the perennial last place spot in national average SAT scores? It’s like spraying air freshener in a recently used bathroom - just a temporary nice smell to cover the stench of real foulness.

By Heather

March 21, 2006 06:39 PM | Link to this

Once again, I’m embarrassed to call this my home state. The air is thick with the suffocating self-righteousness of Christian fundamentalists trying another end run around the bedrock constitutional principle of separation of church and state with an “elective” bible study class. Here’s a novel idea: how about offering mandatory and, more importantly, effective classes on the basics like English, Math, and History, so our kids aren’t hosting the perennial last place spot in national average SAT scores? It’s like spraying air freshener in a recently used bathroom - just a temporary nice smell to cover the stench of real foulness.

By Heather

March 21, 2006 06:40 PM | Link to this

Once again, I’m embarrassed to call this my home state. The air is thick with the suffocating self-righteousness of Christian fundamentalists trying another end run around the bedrock constitutional principle of separation of church and state with an “elective” bible study class. Here’s a novel idea: how about offering mandatory and, more importantly, effective classes on the basics like English, Math, and History, so our kids aren’t hosting the perennial last place spot in national average SAT scores? It’s like spraying air freshener in a recently used bathroom - just a temporary nice smell to cover the stench of real foulness.

By Jeff

March 21, 2006 06:41 PM | Link to this

I think its great that the study of the bible is being added to our goverment schools curriculum. I can’t wait for the day that Georgia will be run by the clergy of our churches and our laws will be taken strictly from our religious doctrine…just like in Iran.

By Jeff

March 21, 2006 06:45 PM | Link to this

I think its great that the study of the bible is being added to our goverment schools curriculum. I can’t wait for the day that Georgia will be run by the clergy of our churches and our laws will be taken strictly from our religious doctrine…just like in Iran.

By nancy

March 21, 2006 06:52 PM | Link to this

YES! The Bible is full for history, literature, poetry,and adventure, not to mention the best guide to day to day living ever written. Plus within it the the clues and explanations to what’s happening in the middle east today. Who wouldn’t want to study it!?

By Retired Teacher

March 21, 2006 06:56 PM | Link to this

Michael, I sincerely hope that some of our “lawmakers” will read your comment and realize what a can of worms they will be opening if this bill becomes a law. I further hope most school systems have a very large legal defense fund.

By Cherri Brown

March 21, 2006 06:58 PM | Link to this

Bible study in public school? No. Comparative religion in public school? Absolutely. The former crosses all lines of separation of church and state; the latter educates those who choose to have knowledge outside or within the religion of their choice, and for those with no religious affiliation, more knowledge.

By Cherri Brown

March 21, 2006 06:58 PM | Link to this

Bible study in public school? No. Comparative religion in public school? Absolutely. The former crosses all lines of separation of church and state; the latter educates those who choose to have knowledge outside or within the religion of their choice, and for those with no religious affiliation, more knowledge.

By Cherri Brown

March 21, 2006 07:00 PM | Link to this

Bible study in public school? No. Comparative religion in public school? Absolutely. The former crosses all lines of separation of church and state; the latter educates those who choose to have knowledge outside or within the religion of their choice, and for those with no religious affiliation, more knowledge.

By Jeff

March 21, 2006 07:10 PM | Link to this

Couple of points:

—Sorry, that last is a MAJOR pet peeve!

By Cherri Brown

March 21, 2006 07:16 PM | Link to this

Quote GOB: “The argument about no religious study in public schools doesnt [sic] hold water. Public universities receive state and federal money, and can teach religious classes.”

Public universities and colleges are post secondary education; they are not mandatory education. I believe you will find the post secondary education level coursework in the area of religion is focused on ethics and using the theological philosophers throughout the history of humankind to present various ethic concepts.

Mandatory education, public school for the young and impressive mind should NOT focus on a religious or political agenda, such as our current proposed legislation is focused.

Remember, public school is a relatively new phenomenon and was set into motion to provide a work force. That work force is diverse, and focused on moving the economy, not providing “group think” to any group agenda. Bible study is definitively not focused on work force preparation, but rather an agenda focused on religious domination of a group of people who believe their G*d, their way is the only way, the only American way. These folks lost the first round with the Pilgrims and they’re still angry.

By JJ Harper, IW

March 21, 2006 07:17 PM | Link to this

Previous Posts: 9:01 AM & 9:46 AM

I have read 75 percent of the posts concerning this topic. I have hung my head in disappointment and shame regarding about 60 percent of those I read.

I, too, am a minister of the Gospel (as another person posted). In fact, I’m one of those “hard shell” pastors - Primitive Baptist. We are a “dying breed.” The reason our “hard-core” beliefs of fire and brimstone are fading from popularity is very simple.

It’s much easier to believe that God is only a loving God and not a God of war as well! This is getting off of the subject, but one must understand these facts for me to tell all of you that God doesn’t tolerate Judaism, Islam, worshiping cows and other useless idols.

It’s also important to point out that God doesn’t tolerate homosexuality, fornication, and adultery, etc. which organizations such as the ACLU, Southern Poverty Law Center, and now our schools promote. Who’s tax dollars are supporting those satanic ideologies?

Let me quote the actual amendment to the Constitution - sense many of you don’t understand it! “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;…”

Now where in that statement does it say that there should be a “separation between church and state?” Furthermore, is that idea what our forefathers had in mind? Isn’t it true that our senate and house are actually abiding by the law? Aren’t they saying - do what you want to do in this case? If they had said, “NO!”… wouldn’t that have been a violation of our 1st. Amendment rights?

*Consider these ideas of our founding fathers: http://www.awkkkk.org/dyk.htm *

Where in those inscriptions do you find that those who signed the original Constitution of the United States meant that God cannot be a public figure?

Elder JJ Harper, IW AWKKKK, Inc.

By Cherri Brown

March 21, 2006 07:23 PM | Link to this

“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion”

By Cherri Brown

March 21, 2006 07:23 PM | Link to this

“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion”

By Bernie B

March 21, 2006 07:24 PM | Link to this

These are the same politicians who claim that the constitution guarantees the right to bear arms but forget to separate church and state.

By Cherri Brown

March 21, 2006 07:35 PM | Link to this

Elder JJ Harper, IW AWKKKK, Inc.

I believe you forget that those who traveled to “America” were comprised of folks, White folks, who worked in servitude to landowners in return for some acreage, such as was the case here in Georgia. Other folks sought America to escape religious persecution, folks with affiliation to many different denominations (Methodist, Anabaptist, more). Other folks just plain sought economic security for their families, and others to escape an oppressive system of taxation.

United States Supreme Court decisions have, throughout our country’s history, sought to find a way to interpret the constitutional mandate on religion precisely because of the very real possibility that one religion could dominate the scene forgetting that we are a nation of many people with one commonatlity, sir; we believe in freedom of choice within the reason of law, freedom of speech within the reason of law and that law has seen fit to interpret this freedom to separate church and state so that all people can exercise their right of private choice within the privacy of their homes, their houses of worship, or to choose not to participate in religion and not be intimidated or restricted because of that non participation.

By Cherri Brown

March 21, 2006 07:35 PM | Link to this

Elder JJ Harper, IW AWKKKK, Inc.

I believe you forget that those who traveled to “America” were comprised of folks, White folks, who worked in servitude to landowners in return for some acreage, such as was the case here in Georgia. Other folks sought America to escape religious persecution, folks with affiliation to many different denominations (Methodist, Anabaptist, more). Other folks just plain sought economic security for their families, and others to escape an oppressive system of taxation.

United States Supreme Court decisions have, throughout our country’s history, sought to find a way to interpret the constitutional mandate on religion precisely because of the very real possibility that one religion could dominate the scene forgetting that we are a nation of many people with one commonatlity, sir; we believe in freedom of choice within the reason of law, freedom of speech within the reason of law and that law has seen fit to interpret this freedom to separate church and state so that all people can exercise their right of private choice within the privacy of their homes, their houses of worship, or to choose not to participate in religion and not be intimidated or restricted because of that non participation.

By beverly

March 21, 2006 08:08 PM | Link to this

What harm can the teachings of the Bible do? The Bible teaches, love, honor, respect, morals, etc…not violence, sex, immorality, dishonesty, etc.

Why would anyone want to prevent students from having “an option” to read and study this book?

And, there is so much to learn about the future from the Bible.

It is amazing what the Prophets of God wrote in the Bible 3,000 years ago, is right-on-target today. Prophesies that didn’t seem realistic to previous generations, makes a lot of sense today. For example: the Bible speaks of great catastrophies that will happen and the whole world will know about it within minutes. Well, this didn’t make any sense to my great grandfather (although he believed by faith) but now, with cable tv, text messaging, satellites, internet, etc., that’s exactly what happens. ….911, tsunami…katrina??? Within minutes the whole world knew and saw with there on eyes!!!!! What’s happening in the Middle East today??? ….it’s in the Bible.

If you read the Bible, you’ll understand exactly what is happening in the world today and why; and what to expect in the years to come.

For the Atheists - even if you don’t believe in God, you can’t deny what you see with your own eyes. Try reading the books of the prophets in the Bible. Don’t think of it as a “book about religion” just read it like you would any other book that has good stories; or has predictions for the future. I guarantee you - your eyes will be opened to the truth. Don’t be afraid of the truth!

By JJ Harper, IW

March 21, 2006 08:19 PM | Link to this

Ms. Brown:

I appreciate everything you’ve said. I agree with every bit of it with the exception of “you forget.”

Here’s the “catch-all.” We the people have the right to do all of those things! One may worship a toady-frog if he/she desires to do so.

That is exactly the point I’m trying to make. ZOG (our Zionist occupied government)… in this particular case… has not made any laws infringing on anyone’s rights concerning the issues mentioned in your statements:

“freedom of choice within the reason of law, freedom of speech within the reason of law and that law has seen fit to interpret this freedom to separate church and state so that all people can exercise their right of private choice within the privacy of their homes, their houses of worship, or to choose not to participate in religion and not be intimidated or restricted because of that non participation.”

The point is that many folks who have posted on this issue is making a mountain out of a mole-hill! The primary keyword here is “e-l-e-c-t-i-v-e.” Just as the First Amendment promises, we the people, have the right to choose - even in this instance!

Please explain to me how government is making anyone choose Christianity over any other religion by saying that it’s ok to teach the “history and literature” of the bible (if - and only if - students and faculty choose to do so). That proposal is totally different than “making” any law that mandates teaching symantics of the bible.

By The72John

March 21, 2006 08:21 PM | Link to this

Ah yes, as the evening moves on, the greater nutcases have appeared. We have “elder” whatver-his-name is preaching in favor of war, gay-bashing, hatred, killing and bigotry…some other credulous fool talking about prophecy and the end-times…I wonder if this moron knows that for centuries similar morons have been claiming that Revelations is speaking specifically about their own time?

Sorry people, but this hate-filled trash that claims to have the lock on absolute truth doesn’t have any business in our schools. Let them cluster together in their bigoted little communes, drinking kool-aid and worshiping David Koresh-like garbage. Just stay away from intelligent people.

By JJ Harper, IW

March 21, 2006 08:31 PM | Link to this

When this discussion is ended by AJC, please feel free to continue this discussion at:

http://www.awkkkk.org/discussion/index.php?topic=919.0

Anyone can join in (i.e. Jews, Blacks, Whites, Pinks, Purples, etc.! Everyone can read posts without registering. Anyone wishing to post must register. Just enter any username and password…. registration is instant, and I’ll gladly delete your registration after you are finished with this discussion - if you desire.

By The72John

March 21, 2006 08:51 PM | Link to this

This JJ Harper person is a member of the Klan…just follow his link…need we say more? That a member of an organization as evil as vile as the KKK would choose to weigh in on this topic should be a warning to all reasonable people.

By oldteacher

March 22, 2006 08:05 AM | Link to this

I loved yesterday’s comment about the old testiment not being a translation. Does that mean that it will be taught in its original Greek?

Also, please don’t tell me that just because I don’t believe the exact way that you do, I am wrong. You may be the one who is wrong.

By GOB

March 22, 2006 08:50 AM | Link to this

“What harm can the teachings of the Bible do? The Bible teaches, love, honor, respect, morals, etc…not violence, sex, immorality, dishonesty, etc.”

Have you even looked at the Old Testament before? Violence, sex, immorality, and dishonesty are the cornerstones for almost every story.

By Nikole

March 22, 2006 09:01 AM | Link to this

*OFF TOPIC* Set those are great examples that you have given me. It is true that the Jews, Irish and Chinese cultures have thrived despite racism. And their experiences are comparable to blacks in this country, or maybe just comparable to each other. Check out some of the works of John Ogbu and the cultural-ecological theory.

By Who Cares About Apathy

March 22, 2006 09:27 AM | Link to this

It’s all pandering to the frenzied one-trick-pony voters. If it’s more important to vote for the guy/gal that puts Jesus in the classroom, keeps Bob and Bill from kissing, and wants to govern womens’ reproductive and medical decisions than it is to keep our citizens safe and support an economy that benefits us all - - then we get what we deserve come election day.

Vote for the elected officials that serve everyone - - don’t sit at home and complain that this isn’t right. VOTE, VOLUNTEER and keep the pandering politicos out of office.

By PAT PINCKNEY

March 22, 2006 10:16 AM | Link to this

THE BIBLE ITSELF IS NOT RELIGION. IT IS FULL OF INTERESTING STORIES ABOUT THE LIVES OF MANY LEADING UP TO THE LIFE OF JESUS. IT GOES INTO DETAIL OF HIS FEATS TO OVERCOME SIN AND HOW IT ALLOWS FOR OUR TRANSFORMATION INTO CHRISTIANS. IT ALLOWS FOR CHOICES. WITHOUT KNOWLEDGE WE DON’T KNOW WHICH ROAD WE WOULD TO TAKE IN LIFE. WE DON’T EVEN KNOW THAT THERE IS ANOTHER ROAD. THIS SAME THEORY CAN BE APPLIED TO OTHER SUBJECTS NOW BEING TAUGHT IN THE CLASSROOMS. HOW WOULD WE KNOW THAT “DON’T” IS BETTER TO USE THAN “AIN’T” WITHOUT BENG TAUGHT? NOW THAT WE KNOW, IT’S UP TO US TO CHOOSE WHICH WORD WE WILL USE.

By SET

March 22, 2006 10:31 AM | Link to this

Nikole,

I won’t pursue off topic for the moment in deference to Patti.

I’m amused that we now have a putative Klan member joining us in these discussions. How quaint. We don’t have them around here, the closest thing was the John Birch Society members I ran into in the 1960’s and I think they are all dead now.

The were (it seemed at the time) up from trailer park types who were terrified of being passed up by those they thought were inferior. They were scared and panicky and were not well traveled or educated. In hindsight they were right about some things but they really didn’t understand anything on an intellectual level - they were governed by emotions.

So I’d like to hear what the Klan - such as they are, has to say. The point of this blog is not to get nothing but what you already know and agree with but rather to see and hear the world from the eyes of others.

However I have learned that people who make up silly titles, “Elder” for example, have one foot in the booby hatch. CA has had a lot of maniacial cults - more than most places. We are familiar with the signs.

So bring it on!

If people still think “teaching the bible” in school will get them what they want I wish they’d explain how they think it would work. All I’ve read is that some posters think it would be bliss - with no discussion on how they could keep the state from hijacking the scheme and using it to publish god-knows-what version of the bible that would infuriate everyone and create more problems for the “Christians” who started the scheme.

Do they really believe they could maintain control of what was taught and who’s version of the bible was used for very long? You’d have the satanic bible one day a week, etc. And how long would the churches stay free when the government started publishing an officially approved version of “the Bible” for use in the school - changing it every year or two as different politicians come to power.

Has anybody studied the crap that passed for Dick and Jane readers in primary schools in CA? We have politically correct readers that deliver the joys of diversity - CA style to 3rd graders. And don’t think you can get separate versions for your state. Thge big states have so many schools that when CA, NY and a few others (Blue states) work with the publishers to get this years version of a politically correct reader published, the manufacturers - like with Wal*Mart - stock books approved by the big states and force them on the others.

If you want your own version written just for your state you have to pay double. So Blue State mores creep into the national distribution just like crap from Hollywood. It gets into everywhere.

If you want to sell Jesus to the kiddies you’d better do what the Mormons do and that’s get into the streets and recruit. If you get in bed with the government schools you are making a deal with the devil - and one you can’t even keep in office for more than one term.

I’d openly attack any religion that gets into government where otherwise I’d leave them in piece. For the moment the “Christians” are being left alone except Hollywood mocks them. Moving forward with this scheme risks starting a fight you can’t win. I’d like the pro side to discuss how they expect such a scheme to progress over 5 or 10 years. I’m concerned that they advance schemes without thinking them out.

Private schools are the answer to most problems. Government schools are the lowest common denominator.

By PJ

March 22, 2006 01:01 PM | Link to this

Hey OLDTEACHER!

I loved my comment about the OLD TESTAMENT NOT BEING A TRANSLATION AS WELL!

IF YOU KNEW ANYTHING ABOUT THE BIBLE YOU WOULD KNOW THE OLD TESTAMENT WAS WRITTEN BEFORE THE TIME OF CHRIST AND NEW TESTAMENT WAS WRITTEN AFTER CHRIST.

BY THE WAY THE OLD TESTAMENT WAS WRITTEN IN HEBREW AND THE NEW TESTAMENT WAS WRITTEN IN GREEK AND ARABIC

TRANSLATIONS ARE DONE BY EITHER ONE MAN OR GROUPS OF MAN TO WHAT THEY BELIEVE THE BIBLE SAYS FROM THE ORIGINAL TEXT AND PUT INTO EVERYDAY LANGUAGE. I WORKED AT A CHRISTIAN BOOK STORE WAS THE BIBLE SPECIALIST. I THINK I WOULD KNOW.

By Language Teacher

March 22, 2006 01:43 PM | Link to this

To be fair, I’d probably be for it if they taught it in the original Greek, Latin, Aramaic, or Arabic.

By PJ

March 22, 2006 02:11 PM | Link to this

TO CORRECT MY ABOVE POSTING I MEANT TO WRITE ARAMAIC. The BIBLE was not written in LATIN OR ARABIC.

THE OLD TESTAMENT HAS WRITTEN ACCOUNTS ABOUT THE SINFULNESS OF MAN, LIKE PEOPLE MENTIONED IN THE ABOVE POSTINGS. Have you even looked at the Old Testament before? Violence, sex, immorality, and dishonesty are the cornerstones for almost every story

YES, THESE THINGS ARE MENTIONED IN THE OLD TESTAMENT STORIES. HOWEVER IF YOU EVER READ THE BIBLE YOURSELF YOU WOULD KNOW AND SEE HOW GOD HANDLED THE SINFULNESS OF MAN. HE DIDNT APPROVE OF IT. HE DIDNT CONDONE IT. HE CONFRONTED IT AND THE PEOPLE WERE DISCIPLENED FOR THEIR SINS.

By language teacher

March 22, 2006 02:17 PM | Link to this

then to amend my posting, I meant ANY foreign language. Heck, they could do it in French. At least there would be a valid educational reason for studying it in school.

By language teacher

March 22, 2006 02:18 PM | Link to this

then to amend my posting, I meant ANY foreign language. Heck, they could do it in French. At least there would be a valid educational reason for studying it in school.

By sez who

March 22, 2006 02:25 PM | Link to this

OK Biblical Scholar, in the Old Testament “He” apparently didn’t have a problem with some folks stoning other folks. And it was okay to have slaves. And if you’re from one sect you’re okay and one of the chosen, but another sect - oops, you’re camel-doo.

And there’s not enough time to list all the fun little tidbits that don’t make sense in your “because the bible said so” mentality. And this is why it shouldn’t be taught in schools. Unless of course, as Language Teacher said, you make them learn it in some language other than English. I like that idea! Conversational Aramaic would require a textbook - - and there you go - no controversy!

By sez who

March 22, 2006 02:26 PM | Link to this

OK Biblical Scholar, in the Old Testament “He” apparently didn’t have a problem with some folks stoning other folks. And it was okay to have slaves. And if you’re from one sect you’re okay and one of the chosen, but another sect - oops, you’re camel-doo.

And there’s not enough time to list all the fun little tidbits that don’t make sense in your “because the bible said so” mentality. And this is why it shouldn’t be taught in schools. Unless of course, as Language Teacher said, you make them learn it in some language other than English. I like that idea! Conversational Aramaic would require a textbook - - and there you go - no controversy!

By pj

March 22, 2006 02:28 PM | Link to this

okay…… why would you say the original language it was written in then be like oh i really meant in any language. That doesnt make sense but anyways.

However the idea of teaching the BIBLE in many languages is great however it may be seen even worse in some peoples eyes! That means if there is a language barrier then someone could be taught the BIBLE in the own tounge!!! Honestly good idea!!! I would love it if they offered the BIBLE in every language at the schools, then everyone would have an oppurtunity to hear and understand the BIBLE. I am all for teaching the BIBLE in all languages at school!

By oldteacher

March 22, 2006 02:37 PM | Link to this

Ok, PJ, I will readily admit if I am wrong. I don’t know if I am because I haven’t really checked it out. However, why do you assume that those of us who dare to question you have not read the bible. I have read it cover to cover a couple of times and have done bible classes with several different Christian sects. I do know a few things as I am sure others on this blog do. You must be one of those new types of Christians since you seem to have a ‘holier than thou’ attitude.

By jim d

March 22, 2006 02:40 PM | Link to this

The quest for certainty often replaces a quest for truth. There is a subtle distinction between the two. Truth is objective reality; certainty is the level of subjective apprehension of something perceived to be true. But in the recognition that truth is objective reality, it is easy to confuse the fact of this reality with how one knows what it is. Frequently the most black-and-white, dogmatic method of arriving at truth is perceived to be truth itself. Too often people with deep religious convictions are certain about an untruth. For example cultists often hold to their positions quite dogmatically and with a fideistic fervor that shames evangelicals; first-year Greek students want to speak of the aorist tense as meaning “once-and-for-all” action; and almost everyone wants simple answers to the complex questions of life.

Textus Receptus, the Greek text that stands behind the New Testament of the King James Version.

http://www.bible.org/page.asp?page_id=677

By pj

March 22, 2006 02:44 PM | Link to this

I guess you have never read the bible sez who. STONING was part of the culture. They stoned people for commmiting serious crimes. they didnt have the county jail. look into history then maybe you could understand, this isnt just bible but history. And the whole one race against another race thing is old news. it still happens today white against black , black against white and so on and so forth.

the mentality of teaching the bible in another language is DUMB. yes DUMB. would you teach history in the language people speak in south africa or in spanish? or science in french? that doesnt make sense to teach a book in english in another language…because if the teacher is the only person who can understand the bible that was provided in aramaic he or she then can turn the interpretation into anything they want and teach anything they want. who would be able to understand it to know other wise. Good try but dumb idea.

By pj

March 22, 2006 02:48 PM | Link to this

CHECK IT OUT. GO ON GOOGLE AND ENTER ORIGINAL LANGUAGE THE BIBLE WAS WRITTEN IN. I WOULD THINK IF SOMEONE WHO REALLY TRULY READ THEIR BIBLE WOULD KNOW THE FUNDAMENTALS OF IT. I AM NOT ONE OF THESE “NEW” TYPES OF CHRISTIANS WHO ARE HOLIER THAN THOU. ALL PEOPLE SAVED OR LOST ARE SINNERS. HOWEVER ONE HAS FORGIVENESS THE OTHER DONT (UNLESS THEY ASK FOR IT). YOU MUST BE ONE OF THE TYPICAL PEOPLE WHO SAY THEY HAVE READ THE BIBLE BUT HAVE NO CLUE WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT.

By Becca

March 22, 2006 02:50 PM | Link to this

I think some of us are trying to say that teaching the Bible in the public school is a dumb idea, pj.

By sez who

March 22, 2006 02:51 PM | Link to this

Sure I’ve read it. Lots. And, oddly enough I don’t take it as literally as you do. But am I entitled to an opinion, or when you want my opinion you’ll give it to me?

By Becca

March 22, 2006 03:01 PM | Link to this

PJ, if you think shouting is going to convince any of us that you really know what you are talking about, think again.

By PJ

March 22, 2006 03:02 PM | Link to this

I THOUGHT EVERY BODY WAS WANTING EVERY ONES OPINION? WHY IS IT WHEN THE CHRISTIANS GIVE THEIR THEY ARE CALLED LOONYS AND WHEN THE BIBLE HATERS GIVE THEIR THEY ARE SMART?? I HAVE BEEN NICE BUT IF I SEE SOMETHING I DONT AGREE WITH CANT I DISAGREE OR IS THIS NOT A FREE COUNTRY ANYMORE? WHATS GOING TO HAPPEN SOON? ARE WE GOING TO START KILLING THE CHRISTIANS BECAUSE PEOPLE DONT AGREE WITH THEM? SOUNDS A LITTLE BIT LIKE WHATS HAPPENING TO THE CHRISTIANS IN IRAQ.

By Becca

March 22, 2006 03:03 PM | Link to this

Hey, PJ, sleeping with your wife’s maid was also allowed in the Bible. Should we do that too?

By Enough Already PJ

March 22, 2006 03:09 PM | Link to this

PJ - ah yes, google - - where everyone goes for their religious validation on the world wide web. OK - google it, yahoo it, or msn it and you will find:

Bible: What was the original language? The Old Testament was originally written in Hebrew, and the New Testament was written in Greek.

Or you might find something else.

So let’s all get out our dueling search engines and ultimately say that it doesn’t freaking matter.

What matters is the fact that you have a wonderful appreciation of your own religion, pj. Good for you. But here in the USA we don’t let people like you tell little Jewish/Hindu/Buddhist/Druid kids (or adults)what to believe.

Hence - bible in school? Not a good idea.

By pj

March 22, 2006 03:11 PM | Link to this

Sorry Becca. Guess everything a christian does in offensive. really dont care if you think because i type in lower case or caps it will convince you because I know it wont.

To answer your question. “Hey, PJ, sleeping with your wife’s maid was also allowed in the Bible. Should we do that too?”

This practice was not allowed by God. The bible clearly, clearly states a man and a wife were to forsake all others and clinge ( join) together. Just like today. MAN and WOMAN did what they WANTED and they suffered the consequences. Name the reference you are refereing to and I am sure I can point you in the direction of what happended. Like Abraham and Sarah and Sarah hand maiden. Isaac and Ishmael. Because of Abrahams sin of adultery he caused a huge rift between the two sons. Sin has consequenes. What is happening in the states today….murder, rape, molestation. It’s all happening under the rule of our President. In the future will people say in the History book they allowed it. The president allowed it to happen. NO NO NO, all people know people have a sinful and perverse nature and do wrong things.

By pj

March 22, 2006 03:16 PM | Link to this

OKAY! I think people are confused, once again. Did I tell people to teach Salvation to the students? Did I tell them how to believe? NO. This is a elective, if a student so chooses to take. Its a study of the Bible. And yes you can study the BIBLE as a book of history without getting into religious views and the “correct” or “right” way to worship. And “people like me” dont tell people what to believe. They have their right and they are going to believe what they want. I will not allow people like you to tell me I cant say how I believe, I will never shut up about how I believe and I would die for Savior and Lord if I had to because I would never deny Him. Thats just me, I am not asking you to agree with me and I really dont care if you do or dont.

By jim d

March 22, 2006 03:21 PM | Link to this

PJ, Consider this;

Translations of the Bible are very necessary, but are not sufficient for formulating dogmas and doctrines of the Church, which requires reference to the original languages. The translations depend upon the genius and-knowledge of the translator in the selection of the proper words and phrases to render meaning as close as possible to the text of the original language. It is well-known that a new translation is more or less a new interpretation. This is obvious when the Bible is translated in the same language, but in different expressions and words. For instance, in the English language there are many translations and renderings with different words and phrases, which imply that one translation differs from the other. The many translations in the same language are justified in that new renderings are different from the previous ones. The fact that there are many translations in the same language indicates that the first translation is not understood after many centuries. For instance, the first translation into the English language from the original New Testament Greek and Old Testament Hebrew by John Wycliffe in the fifteenth century is incomprehensible to the, reader today in English.

Unique characteristics such as idioms and colloquialisms make it impossible for an accurate translation of the meaning of the original Language. Therefore, the translations should be used for, the spiritual guidance of the believers, but not for the formulation of dogmatical teaching of the Church. This is why it cannot be said that the translations are “the inspired word of God”. Only the original language is “the inspired word of God.”

By jim d

March 22, 2006 03:27 PM | Link to this

“Verily I say unto thee, that this night, before the c** crow, thou shalt deny me thrice.”

glad to know it’ll be you replacing him at christs right hand.

By pj

March 22, 2006 03:28 PM | Link to this

I completly agree. As I have said before in my earlier postings. All the translation we have today are only what a man or a group of men have agreed on as a close or accurate translation. You have no argument from me on that point because I said it before. I studied Bibliology in college.

By pj

March 22, 2006 03:33 PM | Link to this

I dont have any idea about what you are talking about JIM d. maybe you could clarify.

“Verily I say unto thee, that this night, before the c* crow, thou shalt deny me thrice.”

glad to know it’ll be you replacing him at christs right hand. “*

By jim d

March 22, 2006 03:34 PM | Link to this

Ok, so if its just another book why are you so adimit that it be taught in our schools?

By pj

March 22, 2006 03:36 PM | Link to this

I said I agree with it being taught in the original text, umm I think you are arguing with yourself. Be careful dont hurt yourself

By jim d

March 22, 2006 03:42 PM | Link to this

Your comment just rang a bell. I was sure I’d read a similar comment before.

“I would die for Savior and Lord if I had to because I would never deny Him.”

Read a response to that claim as well.Just copied you with the response.

By pj

March 22, 2006 03:43 PM | Link to this

Okay, if the Bible is just another book then dont teach history. Dont have the children read literature books. Why? Because who was there when that history book was written. It doesnt hold the exact and correct description of the account in history. It included word of mouth accounts and stories that have been passed down. So, if the BIBLE, in English, is viewed in the same light so should all other books. Dont listen to translations of Sudam Husseins words on TV. they are mere and empty words. Not really what the man said. Dont watch movies with sub titles. Only empty words, its not accurate or correct. Dont read history books. Only a man or woman recollecting an old fable.

By jim d

March 22, 2006 03:46 PM | Link to this

Well its all Greek to me!

By pj

March 22, 2006 03:50 PM | Link to this

Good, then you would know Peter was the one who said that. Yes, I do agree with the thought that people boldly say they will do this or that but it wont hold true. But my words have. I have been in other countries where my life has been put on the line because of my beliefs. I have been put in the middle of cross fire for being an American and being a christian. However I am still here today because God provided safety for me. My words arent empty. If they were I would not be on here standing for what I believe in. If they were not true I wouldnt be leaving the riches of america to tell others of Christ. I have acted upon my words. Do you remember Cassie Bernall? or Nate Saint. Jim Elliot? More occurences where people stood up for Christ. There are some who still do that.

By jim d

March 22, 2006 03:52 PM | Link to this

Actually recorded history is close to accurate or an accuarte account can be found. Can you say that for the bible? No, you have admited there is word of mouth acconts that weren’t put in any type of writing for generations.How accurate are they?

No my friend, I don’t believe your Agenda has anything to do with history.

By pj

March 22, 2006 03:58 PM | Link to this

Who said history was as close to accurate as could be found? you? Not buying it. I didnt say that about the BIBLE. The Bible is divinly inspired. The Bible as a whole goes completly together over 1600 yrs with one message. The Bible never contradicted itself. Can you say that about history books. If we compiled History books all of them would have different accounts and would infact contradict themselves.

By Becca

March 22, 2006 04:01 PM | Link to this

I was referring to Sarah and Abraham. I stand by my original statement. Thank you for not typing in all caps.

By The72John

March 22, 2006 04:02 PM | Link to this

I studied Bibliology in college

Bible “college” doesn’t count. Fake school = fake degrees. It is apparent from your postings that you are not the product of an accredited college or university. Frankly, I’m surprised you even graduated from High School.

Okay, if the Bible is just another book then dont teach history. Dont have the children read literature books. Why? Because who was there when that history book was written. It doesnt hold the exact and correct description of the account in history. It included word of mouth accounts and stories that have been passed down. So, if the BIBLE, in English, is viewed in the same light so should all other books. Dont listen to translations of Sudam Husseins words on TV. they are mere and empty words. Not really what the man said. Dont watch movies with sub titles. Only empty words, its not accurate or correct. Dont read history books. Only a man or woman recollecting an old fable.

Apparently you don’t understand what an original source is. You would be aware that historical texts, etc. are either original sources in and of themselves, or based on research that ultimately leads back to original source material.

The Bible, on the other hand, has no link to original source material. The EARLIEST surviving texts of the various documents that were eventually gathered together and became the modern Bible are from the late second or earlier third century CE.

I realize this is lost on you - anyone who would make the logically unsupportable “argument” quoted above doesn’t have a prayer, if you’ll forgive the humor, of comprehending.

By jim d

March 22, 2006 04:12 PM | Link to this

Now PJ, we could really get into a urinating contest on this one.

“The Bible never contradicted itself”

Here’s a classic example;

“And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham.” (Gen 22:1)

“Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God; for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man.” (James 1:13)

By pj

March 22, 2006 04:13 PM | Link to this

Whatever. I will stand by what I have said. I wasnt talking with you John by the way. Your eyes will be opened one day as I have said and then all will know what is true and what is not. Then everyone will remember PJ from the blog and say wow, she had it right. Until that day. Goodbye. I dont have the time to waste with people who want to argue.

By jim d

March 22, 2006 04:17 PM | Link to this

Don’t ya just love it when their own book jumps up and bites them square on the buttocks.

Bye, Bye PJ

By The72John

March 22, 2006 04:20 PM | Link to this

Whatever. I will stand by what I have said. I wasnt talking with you John by the way. Your eyes will be opened one day as I have said and then all will know what is true and what is not. Then everyone will remember PJ from the blog and say wow, she had it right. Until that day. Goodbye. I dont have the time to waste with people who want to argue.

It’s a public blog, doofus. I see that you are doing the typical fundamentalist turtle-action. Stick your fingers in your ears and say “I can’t hear you, I can’t hear you!”

By jim d

March 22, 2006 04:23 PM | Link to this

Seriously folks there is one good reason for teaching bible in public schools.

There are so many contradictions, students will see it for what it is. They will learn to think and develop annalytical skills beyond belief.

By Teacher, Too

March 23, 2006 04:40 PM | Link to this

Terrible idea. The Christian Bible is founded on the Old Testament, the Jewish Bible. So, are you going to teach the Jewish Bible, or one of the many Christian Bibles, or both? I am Jewish; if I took this class, I would be tremendously offended that my Bible wasn’t being taught.

I am a moral person. I have values and ethics. I did just fine without taking a Bible course in high school. My parents did their job by taking me to synagogue, to Sunday school, youth group activities, and most of all, by raising me in a Jewish home.

Furthermore, I am tolerant of other people and their religions. And, please don’t tell me I am going to Hell because I don’t believe in Jesus. I believe in G-d, and in my faith. To me, Jesus was a person, not the Messiah, and my G-d won’t send me to Hell for that.