Get Schooled

By OldSchool

March 14, 2006 10:55 AM | Link to this

Both of my daughters had much difficulty with math. Each responded well to tutoring by an older student and the youngest got on well with a teacher who volunteered her time to several other students as well.

A colleague’s young son got outstanding results when enrolled in a Sylvan Learning Center.

I guess you just have to try different approaches to find what works in each individual case. If one tutor is not a good fit, try another. Sometimes it’s the “chemistry” that makes the whole thing work.

By jim d

March 14, 2006 11:19 AM | Link to this

As starnge as it may sound, I think many parents panic when a child doesn’t perform as well as they feel he should. This panic is what makes for the multi million dollar business’s like Sylvan. I know I did when my child struggled early in his freshman year with his math. The funny thing is that just setting down and discussing the issue and explaining my expectations and the ramnifications of continuing to not do to well, seemed to have a profound impact on his efforts.

By rob

March 14, 2006 11:43 AM | Link to this

Based on the typos in the previous comments as well as in the link on the AJC homepage, I guess alot more than just students need tutoring.

By jk

March 14, 2006 11:53 AM | Link to this

Rob, A lot is two words.

By Susie

March 14, 2006 12:06 PM | Link to this

My son responded to tutoring better when it was done away from school and away from home. The tutor herself was fine…but it seemed she had much better results with my son when I took him to the public library to meet with her, rather than staying after school or having her at our house. Maybe the library was so quiet and there were fewer distractions. It’s possible that doing it at school was just like making his school day longer, and he just wanted to finish. And at home, he was distracted because he wanted to be outside playing. The library did the trick. So keep in mind that sometimes it can be other factors besides just the tutor themselves…try different locations also.

By Susie

March 14, 2006 12:07 PM | Link to this

JK, alot and alright are two of my biggest pet peeves!

By jim d

March 14, 2006 12:07 PM | Link to this

Geez, not another Blog spelling and grammer cop!

Strange isn’t it that they show up when they haven’t a better comment.

By Robert

March 14, 2006 12:17 PM | Link to this

Well jim d:

If “better comments” were required, then you would never be allowed to post! jk: sort of.

Not every student is great at every thing. Tutoring is perfectly okay, as needed. My mantra to my students is: try different methods of studying until you find what works for you. Some students can simply read the book and make an A. Some students have to memorize every little detail to make an A. Some students have to understand every little detail and every tangent to that detail in order to make an A. Do whatever works for you.

As far as the math part goes… I do think that some brain’s are not wired as well for math. So, it seems reasonable that they would be needing to get extra help. Parents can pay for tutors. But, before doing that, I would hold math “parties.” Try inviting fellow students to your house on a Saturday for a math bee. You can buy little prizes for the winners. Allow for students to review their math homework. Heck, you can even do “real world” math problems using a cook book.

Involved parents can make such a difference. Hiring a tutor can very well work, I would just hold off until everything else has been tried.

By susan

March 14, 2006 12:18 PM | Link to this

Parents need to research what difficulties their children are experiencing very specifically. Tutoring is only good for certain students and certain problems.

Students with learning difficulties and cognitive deficiencies need corrective measures which most school faculty and tutoring schools wont admit even exists. Currently there are two methods of cognitive skills training, a national franchise called Learning Rx (www.learningrx.com) and other online software programs as well. When parents know the root of the problem (which traditional iq testing doesnt determine) then they can solve the problem.

Tutoring is not a problem solver, its expensive, a nd its just reiterating the same info the kids get in school. So beware and do the research.

By Amazed (Independent Woman)

March 14, 2006 12:26 PM | Link to this

My advice is to continue the afterschool tutoring and make sure Andrew practices daily. The key is to practice and be able to utilize what you learn in the next step of the problem. For example: if you can’t multiply and subtract - you may have a problem with division. Also, the main problem may be the need to check your answers, after completing the problem.

I don’t think Andrew will get anything more out of Sylvans, than he can get with a qualified teacher or a student who is a math wizard.

Also, there are online math tutorials and software that is cheaper. If your school has a website, there is usually a link to educational websites and tutorials on them. If not, go to Gwinnett County school systems, because many of there schools have links to these websites on their sites.

By V for Vendetta

March 14, 2006 12:39 PM | Link to this

It depends on the level. If my child came to me and asked for help in math I would be fine… up to a point. If it was BC Calculus, then I would not be able to help them. What I am saying is this: why would you want to turn your child over to a tutor when you could spend time with him working together to find the solution? My parents sat down and helped me whenever I needed it, until they felt like they could no longer accurately explain the material. At that point I got one of my genius friends to help me. Tutoring isn’t bad, but there are myriad other ways to get help (many of the are free)

By jim d

March 14, 2006 12:42 PM | Link to this

Patti, I just can’t help but wonder why Granny has all the concerns about these kids? Is it possible that these kids have more serious issues affecting their studies that won’t be cured by any amount of tutoring? Where’s mom and dad and their concerns?

By V for Vendetta

March 14, 2006 01:15 PM | Link to this

Haha, good point Jim. Why IS Granny so concerned? Or better question: why AREN’T mommy and daddy so concerned?

By Amazed (Independent Woman)

March 14, 2006 01:23 PM | Link to this

Jim,

My grandmother was my caregiver after school, when I was a child. She was the primary contact for my school, when it came to grades, homework, etc….. It wasn’t because my parents were not “AROUND”. Even if they weren’t, I would not have placed the blame for “ME” not understanding MATH on my parents.

Step off the “Granny”. How do you know their parents are not in the military and maybe off serving our country? My next door neighbors have sent their children to Florida, for this reason.

We need to all utilize the extended family method of raising children. I wish my mother lived close by, because I would never have allowed my daughter to attend daycare. We have already made plans for her to move into my house when she is fully retired, so that she can keep an “EYE” on my daughter.

By jim d

March 14, 2006 01:31 PM | Link to this

Lighten up Amazed,

I simply brought up a point worth considering. I was not in any way insinuating Granny was in the wrong or that the parents didn’t care. I just find it difficult to answer the question at hand when there are possabilities that should be considered.

The possability remains that tutoring may not be the solution.

By Leia

March 14, 2006 01:40 PM | Link to this

This child probably didn’t struggle with math in elementary school because a lot of the curriculum requires nothing more than rote memorization. Once the students get into middle school, they actually have to think and implement some problem-solving strategies.

Many of the parents who complain to me that their children didn’t struggle in elementary or middle school don’t give a rat’s behind whether or not they actually know the material, as long as they get an ‘A’ in the course!

By Sheila Ross

March 14, 2006 01:42 PM | Link to this

Typically if the student is a middle schooler, utilizing the assistance of a student 1-2 grades higher is sufficient. Of course your selection should include a student who earns excellent grades and obviously has mastered in the concepts that need to be taught. Some students are just very good in math, others are not.

By dan

March 14, 2006 01:43 PM | Link to this

Some of the students in my classes will be sitting there doing nothing and I ask them why are you not doing what you are told. They then say “I don’t understand” My response is; then ask questions and we will get you through this. They usually come back with “I will ask my tutor about this” In most cases after awhile the tutor becomes a crutch and they shut down in regular class.

By Belinda

March 14, 2006 01:44 PM | Link to this

I don’t see where it matters WHO is concerned about these children as long as SOMEONE is! What difference does it make that the grandmother seems to be the primary caretaker? If the biological mother posed the questions - would your response change? Just a suggestion jim - let the professionals answer this one, because as someone has clearly stated - it looks as though you need a tutor yourself!

By jim d

March 14, 2006 01:51 PM | Link to this

Dan, I have to agree with you. I’ve tried to teach my child that the only stupid question is one not asked.

And Belinda, why is it so offending to want to know if a child has outside influences or circumstance that could affect their studies? Don’t you believe that can happen?

By jim d

March 14, 2006 01:59 PM | Link to this

Belinda,

Time to go to school yourself sweetheart.

Not all children have the priviledge of growing up in a traditional family environment. Some kids actually live in some pretty dysfunctional family settings. These environments can and do affect different children in different way’s. This can even be displayed or played out in their accademic performance.

If you find yourself offended by this. GET OVER IT!!

By Belinda

March 14, 2006 02:01 PM | Link to this

jim - I wasn’t offended at all. I just don’t understand what difference that makes with the current situation. Whatever circumstances have required the grandmother to step in and become the guardian of these children doesn’t affect the fact that the grandson is struggling in math!

I just believe that you just like to stir the pot. You don’t always have to comment! Silence is golden.

By jim d

March 14, 2006 02:11 PM | Link to this

Excuse me? How is asking the questions I asked stirring the pot?

“Whatever circumstances have required the grandmother to step in and become the guardian of these children doesn’t affect the fact that the grandson is struggling in math!”

And How can you be so sure?

By Susie

March 14, 2006 02:21 PM | Link to this

Maybe these kids parents ARE concerned, but just don’t post on this blog! The kid’s grandmother does post on the blog, so she asks for input. maybe she’s relaying the info she gets here to the parents.

By jim d

March 14, 2006 02:29 PM | Link to this

That IS a possibility. But then that is really what I originally asked.

By SET

March 14, 2006 02:32 PM | Link to this

Some of my co-workers have their high school aged kids in Sylvan or similar programs. They are very happy. They are also working two jobs (with husbands commuting 2 hrs round trip a day to work).

The kids need the extra attention, the learning centers call the teachers and find out what the assignments are and how the kid is doing - hell the tutoring service does all the things parents used to do! And it gets the kids out of the houses while Mommy is at work so they don’t have as many hours alone in the house to get into something.

If they could afford it they’d have Sonny and Cher in the learning center every day after school till Mom gets home. The kids are happier with the arrangement and the homework is done - well.

Is this a great country or what?

Brave New World.

By T-Man

March 14, 2006 02:36 PM | Link to this

Sounds like it is time to meet with the teacher. She should first meet with the teacher to find out what the teacher has observed in the classroom setting and if the teacher has any recommendations. Good educators for the most part are very informative concerning help in their subjects. Maybe the teacher can help guide the grandmother. Also finding a well gifted math student for the tutoring.

By SET

March 14, 2006 02:39 PM | Link to this

Are you people shouting at each other now? Aren’t the ground rules here that we not engage in personal attacks on each other unless we go out together or work together?

By jim d

March 14, 2006 02:47 PM | Link to this

SET

Not shouting—just speaking with authority. :-)

By Belinda

March 14, 2006 03:13 PM | Link to this

SET - if you were referring to me at all, no I’m not shouting or name-calling, or condescending or any of that. Hopefully, I haven’t been misconstrued as using personal attacks (GET OVER IT!!) or sexist monikers (sweetheart) to help me make my point. That is not my modus operandi and never will be. I also do not claim to “speak with authority” - since I am not in this grandmother’s position. I was raised by my parents and I am raising my children with my husband and not the aid of their grandparents - so I have no “authority” on this issue at all.

I can, however give my opinion as an educator - since I have seen this situation many, many times before. As I said previously - it doesn’t matter who is caring for these children. We should be grateful that someone is.

I believe that this child should probably see an adult tutor (children this age don’t respond well to peer tutors) to assess where his weaknesses lie. Once that assessment is made, the findings should be given to his teacher, and maybe his teacher can supply him with some reinforcing worksheets to help. His classroom teacher should be his first resource, since this is the person who sees him most often.

And, of course environmental factors can play a part in the learning process, but, the grandmother isn’t complaining about him struggling in all of his subjects or about him acting out in school - so, jim - I do not need to “go to school.”

Have a great day - school day is over for me, and I’m going home!

By jim d

March 14, 2006 03:27 PM | Link to this

http://www.retiredtractors.com/music/GoodnightSweetheart.html

By Amazed (Independent Woman)

March 14, 2006 03:36 PM | Link to this

Jim,

It’s not the question you are asking; it seemed more like an insinuation that the parents did not care and were not concerned with finding help for Andrew. We are just broadening your perspective on the many situations, outside of being “BAD” parents.

An example: was yesterday when I was picking up my daughter from a play dress rehearsal. There were many grandmothers picking up the children and asking questions regarding their grandchildren. My point is, they are all gifted students, but their parents were not there to ask the questions.

Yes, your concerns are justified – but from reading your earlier post, they seemed more like insinuations.

It bothered me, because you always seem like one of the more logical posters on this blog. If, I had not seen your name, I would have thought they were SET comments.

By jim d

March 14, 2006 03:49 PM | Link to this

Well, I was attempting to be logical. The problem with blogs is that people read into things what they want to, but if you read on you’d have seen I explained that I wasn’t insinuating anything. Just felt the questions should be asked.

Without going into a lot of detail suffice it to say I’ve been down that road. Thus the reason for asking.

By Patti Ghezzi

March 14, 2006 03:51 PM | Link to this

Some very helpful comments here. Thanks on behalf of Concerned Grandmother.

I believe Andrew’s parents are involved at their kids’ schools, however Grandmother appears to have a tad more of a sense of urgency about the math issue. She also appears to have more time to follow education trends and an interest in investing in her grandchildren’s future, though not without thorough research.

Perhaps the issue of grandparents wanting a say in the grandkids’ education would be a good topic for another day.

By V for Vendetta

March 14, 2006 03:55 PM | Link to this

Wow, chill out people. Does it really matter what Jim was getting at? No matter what he meant by it, it was a valid point. I think it DOES matter if the parents care or not. Parents are the FIRST example a child has when shaping his attitude towards education. Perhaps this kids parents were bums, sluffed him off on grandma, and his difficulties in school were based more on emotional issues than academic issues. What Jim is saying is that we do not have all the facts, and there may be more to this kids life than we can tell.

Amazed, it’s perfectly fine for a grandma to be the primary contact for the school or the caregiver after school. No one is saying it’s not. What we’re saying, is that there are a lot more influences on a child’s education than simply what he does in the classroom. Learning should be treated as a 24/7 pursuit. Maybe this kid has a great life, maybe he doesn’t, but based on one or the other that would change a lot of people’s responses to the question, don’t ya think?

Belinda, get over it. Jim and I disagree all the time, but I still value his input on this blog. Just by being here, voicing our opinions we are making some degree of progress in this state. Or at least I like to think so.

By jim d

March 14, 2006 03:58 PM | Link to this

THANKS PATTI, (he says sarcastically)

You could have saved a great deal of dissention by responding sooner. :-)

By SET

March 14, 2006 04:35 PM | Link to this

‘Mazed,,

How can you get Jim and I mixed up?

Anyway, the poster who said that people read into these comments what they want is right.

You may think you know us from our postings, but people are a lot more complicated than they seem on a blog. And we don’t know the living and working conditions we all are under, just pieces of them.

By Belinda

March 14, 2006 04:36 PM | Link to this

V - There’s nothing for me to get “over.” And, I fail to see how jim’s (sic) rantings are helping this grandmother! He wasn’t trying to ask a valid question - he was trying to pass judgement and I called him out on it. I’m done!

By SET

March 14, 2006 04:40 PM | Link to this

I just got to watch a mother testify about how she carried her adult son to term (during pregnancy) while doing $100-150 a day of crack cocaine and turning tricks. Then after he was born things got worse until he was removed from her custody after he reached 10. I’m guessing she was approx 15 years old when Sonny Boy was born.

Puts things into perspective for me with this Education Blog. Sometimes it seems we’re just bailing water from a sinking lifeboat.

By jim d

March 14, 2006 04:45 PM | Link to this

Now we are reading minds. Geez, I just love those never wrong, know it all teachers and their holier than thou attitudes. After all they are the pro’s right?

By Patti Ghezzi

March 14, 2006 04:47 PM | Link to this

Okay everybody, the purpose of the post was to discuss tutoring, how to know when a child needs it and how to find a tutor. Please let the other stuff go and instead think of what you’ll say tomorrow when I post about block scheduling.

Thanks!

Patti

By jim d

March 14, 2006 04:50 PM | Link to this

OMG,

SET and I agreed!

“The problem with blogs is that people read into things what they want to”

By Leia

March 14, 2006 05:14 PM | Link to this

jim - I don’t know what it is that you do to earn a living, but, I would dare not pass judgement on it if I had no knowledge of your job description or your responsibilities. Why do you insist on teacher-bashing every chance you get? Yes, I am a professional. Do I think I know it all - no. But, the stuff I do know, I know it well!

By jim d

March 15, 2006 08:18 AM | Link to this

Leia,

Teacher bashing at every opportunity?

I don’t think so. However, I have no problem telling a teacher they are wrong. It is quite unfortunate that some teachers often suffer from KIAS, and whenever I observe that in one, I have no problem expressing that either.

On the other hand I am often one of teachers staunched supporters. But we must face the reality that ALL teachers aren’t good teachers, and that even some of the good ones have absolutely no tolerance for anyone that isn’t a teacher, expressing their views.

As for my knowledge of what a teachers job entails? Well, I could place my bio back up here but suffice it to say several immediate family members teach and my child aspires to be an educator. I’ve spent over 7 years now involved personally in education on several different levels and have a lot of friends that are educators. So yes, I do know what y’all have to deal with. But I also am aware that the bond between teachers sometimes causes even good teachers to defend poor ones. A poorly placed loyality in my opinon.

HAGD.

By Leia

March 15, 2006 04:05 PM | Link to this

jim - what is KIAS?

By Leia

March 15, 2006 04:10 PM | Link to this

And by the way - my father is an attorney, and I have several relatives who are attorneys in different areas (criminal, family law, tax attorney, estate law, etc.) Since I have such close ties to the law - would you trust me to try a case in your behalf - I think not! So, just because there are some teachers in your circle doesn’t mean you know the day to day details of my profession. So, please don’t pretend that you’re an expert on education because you’ve had a couple of boy scout troops and had some children who went to school!