Get Schooled

By LitMajor

March 13, 2006 08:58 AM | Link to this

Of course the catering has gone to far but what else is new? The apartment style dorms and private bathrooms are not a problem. I can’t wait to tell my kids the horror stories from my college days (one phone in the hall, no call waiting, numerous shower stalls the size of a coat closet, no males past the reception area).

The students should learn how to adjust to college life. It will prepare them for the workplace. Sure, you can shoot off an email to your professor at 4am but don’t be offended if you don’t get an immediate response. Where is the respect factor? There was a time when you wouldn’t dare speak to your professor, instead waiting until you could get a hold of one of those precious assistants.

Does anyone here remember sitting outside of the lecture hall to take notes because you wouldn’t dare step into certain professor’s classrooms late? Boy, those were the good old days huh?

By jim d

March 13, 2006 09:06 AM | Link to this

Just a couple of thoughts.

1) Students that elect this route to an education are shortchanging themselves of an opportunity of a lifetime by not experiencing life on campus and all that it holds.

2) Students could easily shortchange themselves of a real education by having someone else doing the work. Granted this would also be possible even if they were on campus, the difference is that the professor would have the opportunity to observe first hand the students class participation.

I personally feel a student needs to be on campus. Campus life teaches so much more than academics, it teaches about life.

By Leia

March 13, 2006 09:15 AM | Link to this

If that particular college professor chooses to answer emails at 4am - that is his prerogative. Hopefully, the students understand that this is not the norm, and not to expect this of other professors.

Many high school teacher I know provide homework help via instant messaging at night, but, the students understand that the teachers who do this may or may not be online, and that most of their teachers don’t do this. It is just an extra resource.

By the way - I hated “campus” life! I preferred having my own bathroom and my own space, and I don’t feel as though I was shortchanged in any way. I got an apartment as soon as I could, and I still was able to learn about life without having to take a shower in that nasty communal cesspool of germs!

By Nikole

March 13, 2006 09:35 AM | Link to this

I graduated from undergrad in 2000, and will be finishing a masters this year, and I did not see these kinds of accomodations until graduate school. I believe that the professors did this because of the growing number of adults that work full time jobs and also attend school. My mother, a single mom with 3 kids, could have never pursued her bachelors and mba without certain accomadations. I also left campus after a mandatory year on it. Community living is gross.

By jim d

March 13, 2006 09:42 AM | Link to this

Two different subjects Leia.

You obviously were on campus, not setting behind your desk at home in the wee hours of the morning taking classes.

By jim d

March 13, 2006 09:46 AM | Link to this

WOW, just an early observation.

Is it going to be the lady bloggers that equate campus life more to a loss of privacy?

By OldSchool

March 13, 2006 10:03 AM | Link to this

The times they are achanging. I think it’s a great idea and I’m from the slide rule era.

I’ve taken courses both online and face to face and liked both experiences. I found the younger members of the online classes had more difficulty adjusting to proper messageboard procedures. They tended to start using “myspace” lingo until corrected by both the professor and older classmates.

I did miss some pluses of live classrooms like having facial expressions and body language to go with the subject matter, but frequent and quick responses from the professor to my questions balanced the scale.

I’m now wishing I was 30 years younger and attending college in Milledgeville (I think)…the one with the ipod village. THAT sounds really neat!

By V for Vendetta

March 13, 2006 10:07 AM | Link to this

Nah, it’s not as cosseting as everyone thinks. I am only four years out of undergrad, just started grad school, and I don’t see it that way. A little more conveniant maybe, but not over the top. Well, ok, the Starbucks thing is a bit much, but the kids have gotta stay awake right?

By OldSchool

March 13, 2006 10:10 AM | Link to this

Okay, it’s Georgia College and State University in Milledgeville and it is one of the most wired colleges around.

Here’s a link:

http://www.gcsu.edu/studentlife/ipod.html

By jim d

March 13, 2006 10:16 AM | Link to this

I don’t know V, sounds pretty pampered to me.

By V for Vendetta

March 13, 2006 10:46 AM | Link to this

Well, I guess the dorm thing is a bit much as well. I cant relate though, I lived in a crappy dorm! Or as I like to think of it, the “character building” dorm.

By LHK

March 13, 2006 11:07 AM | Link to this

I lived in the “character building” dorm, too. It was the only dorm on the UGA campus without air conditioning. And it’s since been gutted for an asbestos abatement. Great!

What I noticed at college (I was in undergrad from 1998 through 2002) was the beginning of students demanding — whether vocally or not — a certain lifestyle. Namely, the lifestyle they’d grown up with in the suburbs of Atlanta. The Athens community in particular catered to this — most students ditched the dorms after the first year and went to fancy apartment complexes with tanning beds and car detailing services. The university, then, had to catch up with the students’ demands. You’re seeing a lot of college students these days who grew up as upper middle class and don’t want to take a drop in status during college. I remember all the brand-new SUVs in the parking lot outside my apartment building during my last year of college. My sister’s finishing up at UGA this semester and says that designer handbags are the norm for girls. The article was right on target with saying that today’s students see themselves as consumers of the college “product.” I think there’s a very demanding generation in college right now, and they want the college to conform to what they want rather than having to change their lives to fit into what the college provides.

By V for Vendetta

March 13, 2006 11:46 AM | Link to this

LHK, I was there the same time. I lived in O-house. It sucked. I had friends in Reed who lived in the “apartments”. Needless to say, I was jealous. Were you in “the well” (Creswell)? I thought that was the worst of the dorms.

By hs sped

March 13, 2006 12:12 PM | Link to this

I wish I had access to online classes when I was in school. Especially while working on my Specialist degree. I missed one night of class to give birth and then had to take my infant to class with me because I was nursing (yes….I recieved permission from the whole class and the professor to do so). I agree with OldSchool, although there is a LOT to be said for face-to-face instruction, online classes are needed in today’s 24 hour society. If only the online schools were acredited…..(and affordable).

By LHK

March 13, 2006 12:16 PM | Link to this

V: Nope — I was in Myers. It was the Honors Program dorm that year. Strange that they would pick the only dorm without air conditioning (even Creswell had window units!) to house the Honors students. There was such a heat wave that year, too. We had to keep our three fans going constantly until November. When I think back to my freshman year of college, I just remember sweat.

I was so jealous of those Reed kids, too! They were the first ones to have high-speed Interet, as well. Now there’s the fancy wi-fi all over campus.

By high school teacher

March 13, 2006 12:49 PM | Link to this

Ahh, the poverty-stricken days of college… I too went to UGA (1989-1994), before the insitution of HOPE. Though I lived off campus, I lived in a non-air-conditioned house with seven other girls, so I still shared a room, phone, and bathroom. I cruised around Athens in my 1985 Ford Tempo (also no air), a hand-me-down from my father. On graduation day, I made myself a “Scarlet O’Hara” promse: As God is my witnes, I’ll never eat Ramen noodles again!

I can’t say enough for the traditional college experience, but I also like the options that are present for those who can’t (or won’t) conform to traditional college hours. It’s convenient to attend school and work a full time job that way.

By SET

March 13, 2006 01:00 PM | Link to this

Why is any of this a problem? Is this so new?

When I was at UC Berkeley in the early 70’s the computer dept ran 24/7 and people had do to work at odd hours (Like 4am) because that’s the only time you could get a keypunch machine available to work on. Back then everything went through paper keypunch cards and there were only so many keypunch machines. We turned in our general class assignments at odd hours also but we had to walk across campus in the rain to shove the assignment into a slot in the wall so would be there at 6 or 7am.

As to the dorm rooms, one of my later roomies was a drug dealer and after a day or so when I realized what was going on, I told the RA’s to change me on the spot or I’d call the Police. They grudingly did. Other rooms had famous battles over $500/month phone bills (You could hear screaming when the phone bills arrived). There is no way I’d want to have a kid room nowadays with strangers. The stakes are too high. You have risks of drug busts, credit impersonations (including other people getting themselves arrested under the victim’s identity) and worse from roomies and their friends. Not to mention the culture wars.

The UC dorms tried to keep the blacks away from the white students by sorting the students by magazines they read. Anyone who said they read “Ebony” was automatically put on the 7th floor. Mind you it was the black RA’s who thought of this and it was the orthodox black students who didn’t want white roomies. Although I read Ebony, I forgot to mention it in the dorm paperwork and wound up with the computer and business students on a lower floor.

Same thing happened at Stanford (friends and relatives went there)where there was an affirmative action experiment involving a large number of students who immediately segregated themselves from the Stanford experience (all black tables in the cafeteria and all black dorm floors).

All students are remarkably adept at doing what they want. Until they can’t get away with it.

So nowadays at the University in the town that I live in all new dorms are built with single rooms. I believe the old dorms are converted to singles also. If somebody wants to take a double room it’s with a pre-selected roomie.

If the situation were the way it was when I was in school (tiny rooms with stranger roomies) all students who had other options would refuse to stay there. You don’t spend the kind of money we spend now for school to live like that.

Colleges can only get so crazy when they are costing $30,000 a year and up. American kids are considering the public and private Universities in Canada among other places - so there are options. And once you are spending that kind of money you are willing to travel. Univ of CA was only $600/yr when I went and private schools were much more. So we put up with a lot.

Think of it like Burger King. If you pay for it you have it your way. Is that so bad?

By Amazed (Independent Woman)

March 13, 2006 02:21 PM | Link to this

The entire world is moving to a 24/7 environment. Why should colleges live in the past?

You can get this service at hospitals, food, shopping online, banks and many business offer 24/7 access to information. I think it would be great for “education” as a whole to move to 24/7 access.

Wouldn’t it be great if Public and Private school students had access to teachers after school where they could review what was covered in school or just to get help with homework. I’m not talking about teachers who have just worked 8 hours, but maybe another partime teachers who works online and is available to help answer questions.

We should be moving forward everyday, nothing should remain the same. If life was suppose to stay as is, we would all be newborns. Life is moving forward, growing and expanding into new territory.

By Dan

March 13, 2006 02:28 PM | Link to this

Well relatively speaking in most aspects of life there is far more “coddling” going on. Our definition of hardship and expections of benefits are constantly changing. But while I don’t think coddling helps, certainly having an apartment instead of living in a dorm is far more inidcative and instructive of real life. Providing of course the student bears most of the responsibility of cost etc.

By oldteacher

March 13, 2006 02:29 PM | Link to this

I remember the days of the dorm and sharing a bathroom. It wasn’t so bad for me. I grew up in a family with 7 people and only one bathroom. At least in the dorm, there was more than one stall. There were no boys allowed in the dorm rooms either. I actually marched to let the college know that I thought it was unfair that the female dorm students had a curfew and the males didn’t.

I actually liked to be able to speak face to face with my teachers and others in the classroom. I don’t think I would have liked college through the computer.

WGC class of ‘73.

By OldSchool

March 13, 2006 03:10 PM | Link to this

It occurs to me that the article is more about professors making themselves more available than it is about a complete virtual campus.

I’m sure Emory has not abandoned traditional classrooms in favor of cyberspace. Most likely, there is an amazing blending of traditional and technical that works well for everyone. Surely professors still would meet face to face with students who need it, although busy schedules might make setting an appointment up quite difficult.

While it is possible, I suppose, to get a degree completely online, that would likely be more appropriate for the non-traditional student than a youngster who “can’t wait to get outta this one horse town!”

Cyber beer just isn’t as filling and virtual bars are no fun.

By Robert

March 13, 2006 03:18 PM | Link to this

It is a shame and a sham that college professors must be concerned at all with student reviews. Of course, a student that makes a poor grade will give that professor a poor review - after all it is their fault that the student failed, right? Certainly it couldn’t be because the student didn’t crack a book or possibly even go to class at all.

Someone in education, both college and secondary, has to have the “kahoonas” to stand up and stop the madness. Otherwise, the US will continue to dummy-down the curriculum from 1st grade all of the way through college. And, in the meantime, China, Japan, and other Countries will continue to become better educated and take our jobs. We will become the leading 3rd world Country all due to laziness.

What would our Country’s forefathers say?

Most of you know that I teach high school science. I caught a single student cheating TWICE! The father met with me to plead for his son to pass. After all, he said, “he is a good boy and wants to become a doctor.” “A doctor!” I thought, “I certainly do not want to go to a doctor that cheated his way through medical school.” But the father and the student simply did not see it that way.

By D

March 13, 2006 03:28 PM | Link to this

Is that not the business world these days? I thought college was to prepare students for a job. Last time I checked the business world did not slow down for anyone. Maybe it is a bit much that professors are having to stay up till 4 a.m. answering question, but that is the professors’ fault too. All my professors made themselves available to their students, but not to that extent.

By HB

March 13, 2006 03:38 PM | Link to this

Oldschool, I was a student at Emory 7 years ago, and you are correct — the incorporation of online activities into courses was not creating a completely virtual campus. Emory’s “amazing blend of traditional and technical” came in the form of the campus network, Learnlink (I believe it is still being used). The system allows professors to set up forums for their courses where they could post assignments, readings, etc. My professors used it primarily as a way to spark discussion outside of class. For example, students may be required to post a summary or short answers to discussion questions on a reading no later than two hours before class, and also read all other posts by the start of the class. Sometimes that would get an online discussion going, but at the very least, the professor would go through responses and create a list of talking points for class discussion. It also helped him/her to pinpoint questions/difficulties students had before class started so those issues could be addressed first thing or even on the forum ahead of time.

All in all, it greatly enhanced class discussion once we did come together again because the ball got rolling before we even showed up!

By V for Vendetta

March 13, 2006 04:03 PM | Link to this

LHK- Oh yeah, you Honors kids got screwed! I was stuck in O-house with all the freakin band kids. Trumpets, trombones, and tubas at all hours! The bathrooms were basically a shower and a toilet so close it was almost IN the shower. I learned a few VERY valuable lessons that year…

and finally…

Beer and liquor can easily be smuggled into any dorm at any time for any reason including but not limited to: I passed the test! I failed the test! I took a test! I have hair! She dumped me! She slept with me! They slept with me! Shut up, I was experimenting! and I didn’t know she was a cop!

By SET

March 13, 2006 04:23 PM | Link to this

Online classes couldn’t be any worse than underground stadium lecture halls of 500 with TV monitors hanging from the ceiling so you can see the face of the speaker down (way down) on the stage. I never actually met some of my undergraduate “professors”.

In Grad School we had classroom size of 125. Cozy enough for the professors to insult the students by name when they gave a stupid answer upon being called on.

Also in Grad School some students tore pages out of library books so that classmates coming behind them to research would have a hard time keeping up. That wouldn’t hapen online.

The current college life sounds pretty good to me.

By E. Lewis

March 13, 2006 04:31 PM | Link to this

It’s called capitalism. Colleges must compete and if offering 24/7 services will attact more students and their $$$ then that is what the schools will do to stay competitive.

By Robert

March 13, 2006 04:56 PM | Link to this

Lewis - Isn’t education a place where capitalism SHOULDN’T exist? If capitalism should be in education, why won’t the very wealthly students simply pay off the professor at the beginning of the semester for an A so that no one wastes anyones time!!!! The optimum in efficency and capitalism!

By V for Vendetta

March 14, 2006 08:13 AM | Link to this

Robert- what are you talking about?! Capitalism essentially is the reason a Harvard education means a little more than a South Pickneyville State education. It’s all about competition. So should they just let ANYONE into Harvard, Yale, Columbia, etc? Should students not have to try anymore? Students should have to compete to the best of their ability the same way the colleges compete. Ten years ago kids could get into UGA with a 1050 SAT score and a 3.0 GPA. Now I see kids from my school get turned away with 1200 SAT scores (or whatever the new ones are) and 3.5 GPA’s. That’s progress. The sooner they learn about the “real” world, and that life is competition, the better. They sure aren’t learning it in K-12, that’s for sure.

By Dan

March 14, 2006 08:34 AM | Link to this

Robert if you think paying off the professor is capitalism then you are the poster child for why we need more courses on it. V is absolutely correct in saying it is about competition. Those who work harder and take advantage of the opportunities available to all, succeed the most. Contrary to what many believe the great majority of “rich people” started with very little.

By Dan

March 14, 2006 08:35 AM | Link to this

Actually paying off the prof would be more akin to a political science curriculum

By HB

March 14, 2006 10:07 AM | Link to this

I don’t think Robert was saying competition is bad, just that universities shouldn’t be competing for their own monetary profit (isn’t that what capitalism is?), and for the most part they don’t with a few exceptions like Devry. A good university’s job is to provide a good education. Does that, in turn, help students earn more money? Often, yes, but the university’s primary concern should be to prepare a student to maximize his or her own talents in whatever manner the student chooses, whether that means climbing the corporate ladder or moving into less profitable careers such as the arts, nonprofit world, or public service.

If good universities were competing primarily for tuition dollars, as opposed to for the best students, then getting good grades wouldn’t matter. Only the size of Mommy and Daddy’s bank account would. There’s a reason for all that financial aid schools provide — it’s to pull in hard working, accomplished students, so that the school isn’t stuck with only those who can pay.

By MC

March 14, 2006 10:27 AM | Link to this

…and to think, I went to Auburn because they had a better football team than UGA. Seriously, though… thanks to the glorification of college party life through “Girls Gone Wild”, MTV, and Hollywood movies, schools are competing on every level OTHER than education. I wish I could say that those students who chose a university based on its “extra-cirriculars” were also the ones failing out, but in my experience, they did just fine and got great jobs after graduation. So when I see Middle Georgia College in Dublin & Cochran advertising about “now THIS is college”… are you kidding me? What nightlife can you offer in Dublin and Cochran when your target audience is Metro Atlanta? So, I realize it’s slightly off point, but when you talk about colleges that compete… almost all colleges are already in 24/7 environments. It has become standard and expected. College has the perception of being a party first and an education second… and that’s the real issue.

By HB

March 14, 2006 10:45 AM | Link to this

No nightlife in Dublin?! Are you kidding?! Why this week alone they have the annual Exchange Club St. Pat’s Pancake Supper and the Main Street Munchies! And in the fall Friday night football at Shamrock Bowl! And every week, Wednesday night supper at Pine Forest UMC! Yee-haw!

Signed,

a former Dublinite :)

By Bob

March 14, 2006 10:46 AM | Link to this

HB, I think you have it wrong with regard to institutions competing for tuition dollars. The schools that are selective in their admissions are the exception. The vast majority of colleges and universities engage in an epic battle for tuition paying students. I have taught at 3 universities during my 15 year academic career, and the pressure to keep enrollment high is academia’s dirty little secret.

Most professors are keenly aware of their SCHs (student credit hours generated) and are forced to dumb down their courses to keep students enrolled and happy. You can’t get tenure when students won’t take your classes. My graduate students today could not begin to do the same work my undergraduates did 15 years ago. The 24/7 access, video classes, web classes, etc… are simply another way of keeping the SCHs high and pleasing administrators who count the money.

By Phillip

March 14, 2006 11:33 AM | Link to this

Bob, is that not the problem? The fact that your undergrads from 15 years ago are better educated than our current grad students makes me feel like I, a recent UGA graduate, have been shortchanged by the educational system. I admit to having received many benifits, mostly financial, that have allowed me to attend college at relatively little personal expense. Perhaps the previous generation of students had to strive harder to pay for college, but that is a somewhat seperate issue (not entirely, though).

Is there an arguement to be made that because the previous generation of students had to scratch up money to pay that they appreciated the experience more than current students do? If so, then does appreciation equate to excellence, or at least adequacy, in effort? When I was in college, I made the grade, but with minimal effort, sometimes utilizing the 24/7 college environment by banging out a term paper overnight. Just enough effort to get by. Is that the difference between the students, or is this the way it has always been?

By Lynn

March 14, 2006 01:43 PM | Link to this

As a transfer student to GSU and a former student of Alabama’s Jacksonville State University, I’ve got to wonder what the original poster is talking about. Nice apartments for dorm students? Ah yes, the ones that cost over $2000 dollars a semester. Professors worried about their reviews and thus allowing students to slide through class? Must be those science teachers who start off class going “If you manage a C in here, be proud.” Gasp and shock, a Starbucks on every campus corner?? Where isn’t there a Starbucks on every corner in Atlanta?

Give me a break. GSU costs more than my Alabama school did, and offers an exponentially larger amount in return. I’m pleased as anything to be here. And it’s those things determined as coddling that allow it to work. I left JSU to work fulltime, and have continued to do so as I attend GSU. Without nighttime classes and teachers will to answer via email, I wouldn’t be able to go to any class. Without the ability to miss school due to kids or an insane project to complete, I’d have to drop out.

Professors aren’t coddling students. And, to be honest, with the frightening increases in tuition, and the laughable additional “fees” given to students (athletic fees, for instance, when one never attends a game or additional science fees when one has already paid a school supply fee) students have a right to expect more. If we have to pay so much extra money a semester, I see no problem with demanding that universities offer that much more in return.

If there is a problem, I see it being on a high school level. Students, in Atlanta at least, are being coddled there. Special tutors, the push to allow cheaters and failures to advance without learning, the amount of aid and assistance granted to students… All of this adds up to kids not gaining the necessary amount of independance and self-motivation necessary to take care of themselves.

College is supposed to be a time of experimentation, where children learn the basics of being adults. But they need that firm foundation to start from, and they do have to be responsible for their own actions. Students who come from a traditional, you screwed up and now you failed the year, high school seem to do better at making that jump to college responsibility. So it seems to me that is where we should be concentrating our efforts - and not worrying that the average uni student is waltzing their way into adult life.

By SET

March 14, 2006 02:27 PM | Link to this

Lynn has got it right.

All the complaining I’ve been doing on the Get Schooled blog is that the primary and secondary schools are stunting the potential of all the students but especially the minority students by not getting in their faces and forcing them to produce or leave.

When they turn 18 that is the world they have to go into. You either produce or go to hell (or find some other producer to live off of - another story).

It’s more so now then in earlier generations - that things are getting tougher. The choices we all have to make in life are getting deadlier.

I think the public schools can do better with the budgets they already have.

Maybe we should have the 24 hour high school?? The kids are up all night on their computers texting each other anyway, they might as well be turning in assignments at 1am.

By OldSchool

March 14, 2006 02:45 PM | Link to this

Many schools do give students access to virtual high schools. Many teachers also maintain interactive websites for their high school students. It’s out there.

By another teacher

March 14, 2006 04:02 PM | Link to this

A little late, I know, but to comment on an earlier post: Valdosta State offers an online Specialist Degree in Instructional Design and Technology. All online and state school prices.