Get Schooled

By V for Vendetta

December 15, 2005 08:23 AM | Link to this

Parents saddled with the idea that their kid might someday become a lawyer or a doctor do insane things like this. Usually, the kids are either sub par performers in the classroom, or if they are gifted, become socially inept. Parents need to realize that achieving in school IS NOT the most important thing in life. You can have all the accolades in the world, but if your personality is less vibrant than a ten day old grapefruit you are not going to be doing so well when the real world comes a-knocking. Having decent grades and a friendly outgoing personality goes far in life, farther than someone who has stellar grades and the personality of a wet muskrat. Ask any teacher who has taught Honors or Gifted kids and they will tell you that for the most part they are highly intelligent, but socially behind. The kids who do all these outside programs have a very unfortunate existence and I feel sorry for a lot of them (not all of them, but most of them). Their parents are probably the same ones who complained to have team sports taken out of our elementary schools because they “exclude” kids. News Flash. That’s all the real world is, exclusion and competition. I think parents would be better off leaving the learning to the schools and spending their time teaching their kids important LIFE lessons.

By Ginger

December 15, 2005 08:44 AM | Link to this

I do occasionally give my kids “parent assigned homework” but only for a couple of reasons, seeing as I really detest the idea of homework for homework’s sake. I have one who is an horrible speller, always has been, so she gets some extra when I suspect she has not been trying her level best. My 2 middle girls have handwriting that I deplore, so when I see it getting worse, they do a little more. This works too when I see that they are having trouble with a particular subject.

As a rule, I despise homework. I liken it to going to work for 8 hours then being expected to come home and work 2-3 more for the same pay. There are exceptions to this rule though. When I taught, the only time the kids got homework (besides for projects, term papers etc) was when they either did not complete the assignment in class or if they chose to waste the time in class, I felt justified in taking up theirs at home. In cases like that, the work was graded as a test. The parents knew my thoughts and opinions on the matter, and agreed. Some of them would come to me and ask for extras I had on hand to give the kids extra stuff to do.

By E for Excellence

December 15, 2005 08:52 AM | Link to this

I did exactly that — until my children got into a Magnet School for high achievers. Prior to then, they were BORED in 2d and 3d grades, so I made up sheets of work for them. A child should work to their ability, not to the state mandated standard, whatever that ability may be.

As you you V for Vendetta, hope your children enjoy their cashiers jobs at Kroger, ‘cause they won’t be prepared for much more than that.

By Leia

December 15, 2005 09:00 AM | Link to this

Since I’m a teacher, I guess it’s in my nature to turn everything with my son into a teachable moment. I don’t give him “homework” per se, but, I will throw spelling words at him while I’m cooking dinner, or quiz him on his history facts while we’re in the car. Homework doesn’t have to be a chore. I think every parent should supplement in some way. Practice makes perfect, and the students need to practice what they’ve learned as often as possible.

V - I feel so sorry that you believe that you’re justified in limiting your childrens’ futures.

By DB

December 15, 2005 09:06 AM | Link to this

E for Excellence: If his kids enjoy their lives and treat people with respect, what’s wrong with working at Kroger? Happiness is key. And being a doctor, lawyer, or “insert occupation here” that society defines as top notch because of money and esteem hardly ever equates to success and happiness. Also, I don’t know where you live, but things are not all that competitive here in Georgia.

By DB

December 15, 2005 09:10 AM | Link to this

Just stimulate your kids and teach them all you can and teach them to enjoy learning.

By ADL

December 15, 2005 09:11 AM | Link to this

My daughters are in the Honors program at their school and stil participate in outside activities with their friends. Why does it have to be an either/or proposition? I don’t know that they will be doctors or lawyers, that is their choice. I want them to do what makes them happy. I also want them to be prepared if that is what they decide to do.

By Leia

December 15, 2005 09:13 AM | Link to this

DB - You are right; “things are not all that competitive here in Georgia.” So, don’t complain about ranking 48th in the nation!

What is wrong with striving for excellence?

By E for Excellence

December 15, 2005 09:18 AM | Link to this

DB: Nothing wrong with working at Kroger, if that is appropriate to your talent and ability. The problem is parents like V for Vendetta who want to “dumb down” and assume that bright children are somehow socially inept. That stereotype only encourages children to play dumb so they fit in — a huge waste of talent.

By Hannah

December 15, 2005 09:30 AM | Link to this

V - News Flash - my child is in the honors program, plays football, baseball and swims competively; has tons of friends; is well-liked by peers, parents, and pastors; and is very “normal” (whatever that means for a middle-school age kid!).

I’m sure that you’ve told your children that the smart kids are “nerds” or “freaks” so they wouldn’t feel bad about being in the dumb classes at school, but, I submit that your kids are the ones that are socially inept!

By high school teacher

December 15, 2005 09:48 AM | Link to this

V,

On the contrary, most of my gifted students I have taught were also on the homecoming court, stars on the football field (soccer field, baseball field, etc), and managed to hold down a job. That’s what makes kids gifted; they are able to perform well in the classroom and be socially mature.

As for the homework issue, I think that elementary kids these days have too much of it. I’m sure that comes from the pressure of the CRCT scores for 3rd and 5th graders. By the time kids get to high school, they are burned out on HW. As Leia stated, parent suppplements don’t have to be chores. Here’s an idea for learning readers: mute the sound on their favorite television show, turn on the subtitles, and see if you and your kids can keep up with the dialogue! It’s fun and enforces reading skills.

By Leia

December 15, 2005 09:59 AM | Link to this

high school teacher - Muting the television is an awesome idea! I sometimes watch movies on the Spanish speaking HBO channel to see how much Spanish I can remember from high school!

By Becky

December 15, 2005 10:04 AM | Link to this

Well, every student cannot go to college and be successful. Only about 20% of the jobs in todays society require a college education. Many more require a technical education. What is wrong with that? Absolutely nothing. If a person is happy working as a cashier, let them work and enjoy life. It is not an easy job. This is what I did to suppliment my college money. If cashiers still have a smile on their face at the end of their shift, I am happy for them.

By Sasha

December 15, 2005 10:07 AM | Link to this

I bet that if some of your kids don’t earn that college education, you plan to buy it for them don’t you? Some parents already do homework for their kids and that is why I stopped giving it. I expect the kids to do the work in class. BTW - school is closed today so don’t try to shut me up by asking why I am not teaching. I have noticed that is how some of the bloggers try to win an arguement.

By Mechelle

December 15, 2005 10:20 AM | Link to this

V-hopefully my kid (the future attorney) does not end up defending your kid (education is not everything but has a good personality) in the future. LOL

By V for Vendetta

December 15, 2005 10:22 AM | Link to this

Wow, my kids are going to be cashiers? I’m limiting their futures? I think not. I dont call it “over-achieving” because it is what I expect out of them. It’s what I expect them to do if they want to be successful in life. I was an A/B student in all AP and Honors classes, a serious athlete (competed for an SEC school in college) and had tons of friends to boot. My parents didn’t feel the need to waste my time with “extra” work, because I had so very little time to myself. The only extra schooling I received at home was learning to read at an early age. What I’m saying is that a child’s future is not neceessarily going to be improved by adding supplemental work to what he or she receives in school. If you want to supplement them with something, push the DESIRE to learn the material, not the material itself. Motivation and determination are the real problems, not the assignments they receive in school. Sure there were classes I was bored in, but that just made it all the more obvious to me that if I thought it was easy, I needed to get the highest A I could get. Kids would be better off watching the Discovery Channel or reading some great non-fiction books than going into one of those silly programs.

By SWC

December 15, 2005 10:34 AM | Link to this

Sasha - What do you mean by “buying a college education” exactly? And what is your position on affirmative action?

All - To suppplement or not to supplement is a personal decision that each family can make, and no one should be criticized for whatever decision they make. Every child has different needs, different schedules, et cetera.

By wwww

December 15, 2005 10:44 AM | Link to this

I read this blog all the time, and yes, I’m a teacher. Since I’m not at work today, I’ll take the time to post some thoughts:

By Ernest

December 15, 2005 10:49 AM | Link to this

Of course I supplement my children’s schoolwork, both with academic work and on ‘life’s lessons’. I personally feel that instruction in school has been somewhat ‘compromised’ over the years and lacks the rigor that can prepare our children to successfully compete in the global economy. It’s my job as a parent to help fill those gaps. As others have suggested, it’s done in a manner that they perceive as the norm. I see this as helping our children have as many options as possible for after school success.

V, count me among those that disagrees with your assessment of ‘high achieving’ children. True, there are ‘some’ that have the characteristics you described but for the most part many have the ability to ‘multi-task’ thus succeed in curricular and extra-curricular activities. My observation is that these are the type of people that do well in the ‘real’ world.

By Sasha

December 15, 2005 10:49 AM | Link to this

Sending them, finally, to a small private college where they help to buy a library or make a large contribution to the school. and therefore insure their child has a degree.

I think affirmation action stinks.

By Manny

December 15, 2005 11:12 AM | Link to this

Sasha - did your parents “buy” your degree? I’m trying to figure out which college you graduated from with such poor grammar and writing skills!

“arguement” - that word doesn’t exist

“insure” - you meant ensure

Why don’t you try to do some homework today since you didn’t have to work?

By V for Vendetta

December 15, 2005 11:17 AM | Link to this

Ernest, not necessarily all high achieving students, but the ones that participate in those types of programs, in my experience, generally tend to be bookworms. As far as the Honors and Gifted kids go, it’s a mixed bag. Sometimes you get a bunch of very intelligent, popular, and talented kids, or like in my Honors class this year, you have kids who are highly intelligent but make poop noises and laugh about it. I didn’t rise above it either, god knows when I was 15 I was the same way! (a little too old for poop noises)

By Dsmooth

December 15, 2005 11:19 AM | Link to this

Sasha- Affirmative Action doesn’t stink, it works and has helped many a minority get a chance that they might not have had. End of Comment on that…

As for assigning extra homework for your kids, my kids get extra stuff to do all the time, I don’t think the teachers are assigning enough at my son’s school, some of the teachers are requiring them to do it in class because of parental help, but I thought that’s why homework was given. Isn’t it meant to reinforce the lessons that were taught in the classroom earlier in the day? It seems to me that some of the teachers don’t want the responsibility of having to grade it or collect it.

By V for Vendetta

December 15, 2005 11:20 AM | Link to this

Manny, this is a blog not the encyclopedia, who gives a crap about grammar. We’re talking issues here, you want to discuss grammar there is a blog called “I have no life” at www.whyamiallowedtospeak.com

By I_Teach

December 15, 2005 11:22 AM | Link to this

I teach second grade. My kids work, work, work, work, and WORK all day long. I am mandated to send homework home Monday-Friday.

I give less than 30 minutes a day, but reading is required 5 times a week, (documented).

Giving my sons extra homework is akin to a boss saying, “Great job! You worked hard all day, so here’s some MORE work to do at home!” Once their HW is done, it is family time. That is just as important.

My gifted child also took AP and Honors courses, and lettered in 3 sports during his time in HS. He now attends a major university, and maintains a B average, and still plays sports.

Balance, people, BALANCE! I don’t want my darling students to go home and after my working them all day, doing my hw, have their parents ‘supplement’ their work only to fill their own needs! If I think a student needs remediation/supplemental work, I send it!

By Manny

December 15, 2005 11:23 AM | Link to this

V - you are the epitome of the same type of students that you seem to despise! Did you think your comment was clever? That was so similar to something my 9 year old would say!

It just concerns me that a teacher who advocates for no homework can’t spell simple words, and is allowed in a classroom with someone’s children! Be afraid! Maybe she’s your child’s teacher!

By I_Teach

December 15, 2005 11:25 AM | Link to this

Check that..HW is Monday through THURSDAY!!!

By DB

December 15, 2005 11:25 AM | Link to this

Dumb down nothing. I don’t totally agree with V, but I do think parents take school a little to seriously at times. School isn’t for everyone. If your kid isn’t challenged in school, it’s time to take them out or get them in a more challenging class or a more challenging school. We need cashiers(and happy, hardworking ones). There aren’t many around here. School, if you ask me, should separate the hard workers from the lazy bums. I just find no correlation between “extra assignments” and success in life(or better preparedness down the road, in say, high school, which is a joke in most places anyway). That’s all. In fact, success in school isn’t all that correlated to success in real life. Wish the best for your kids, and give them the tools, period. I honestly feel sorry for people who look at cashiers as beneath them. People are people. There is a lot to be said for interpersonal skills and succes.

By DB

December 15, 2005 11:26 AM | Link to this

success. Oh, no! I’m a loser because I made a mistake!

By Dsmooth

December 15, 2005 11:27 AM | Link to this

Ms. I Teach…. I agree with you to a certain degree… The fourth graders need the work so they can be prepared for middle school…my boys play sports, are involved in activities at church and are well rounded but Georgia is already 48th in the country… they need the extra work.

By Sasha

December 15, 2005 11:45 AM | Link to this

Guess I am not allowed to make errors in my typing like others are. Just another way that some of you jerks want to shut up those of us that don’t agree with you.

By Sasha

December 15, 2005 11:49 AM | Link to this

I worked two jobs to put myself through school. There was no Hope Scholarship. I went to Penn State.

By Decaturparent

December 15, 2005 11:53 AM | Link to this

Funny about extra work. I have two school aged kids - both pegged as “gifted.” One is a social butterfly and very creative but couldn’t give a hoot about school work. She’d rather be inventing elaborate fantasies - which to me… qualifies as “extra work.” Just getting her to do her regular homework is a battle - I can’t imagine adding to it with supplements.

My other kid is more introverted and “bookish,” but I wouldn’t say that she was socially inept. She comes to me constantly wanting to do flash cards and all sorts of drills and puzzles. So, if comes to me and asks…. we do it - why not? She really does enjoy that sort of stuff and takes pride in learning difficult concepts.

I’d never drill my children after school or send them to an academic program if they didn’t want to go. Even older children learn through play and they should be allowed to have as much playtime as possible. My parents never once drilled me in school (or even checked my homework for that matter) and somehow I found a way to be a lawyer.

Good communication with and support of teachers can go a long way toward making sure that a gifted child is challenged while they are still at school. If the teacher is decent and understands your child, she can make sure that your child gets what they need.

By yeah right

December 15, 2005 11:54 AM | Link to this

Sasha - did you go to Penn State or the State Pen?

By Sasha

December 15, 2005 11:54 AM | Link to this

Dsmooth - I was asked my opinion about affirmative action and I gave it. I don’t care if you agree with me or not.

By Sasha

December 15, 2005 11:58 AM | Link to this

Actually, I am not going to tell you where I went to school. I knew that no matter where I said I attended, some idiot would have a smart remark to make. Why are you not getting on to others who are making spelling or grammar errors? Is it because I said that I think affirmative action stinks? Is affirmative action the only reason you have your job?

By Paula

December 15, 2005 11:59 AM | Link to this

Sasha - switch to decaf!

By Sasha

December 15, 2005 12:03 PM | Link to this

Paula, no thank you.

By Amazed (Independent Woman)

December 15, 2005 12:03 PM | Link to this

Yes, I assign projects for my daughter on Saturdays. I try to make them fun and educational. I would rather have her working on something that will help her in the future. So I use our everyday math/reading skills when cooking, grocery shopping and doing the laundry. She now knows the difference between a gallon of milk and a half- gallon. I let her pay and determine the cost/budget. When we get home, the next assignment is to put everything in its place. She knows how to prepare a meal, by using the measuring skills obtained.

In addition to that I assign books to read, history & science projects. You can do wonders with old milk, bread, cheese, etc…. She also knows how to check the expiration date of those items, before she eats them. I also purchase workbooks and other books used to help my daughter perform at a higher level.

We obtain current events, by watching channel 2 and Good Morning America every day. I carefully explained at the age of 5 that you can’t live in a world and not know what is going on in it. That didn’t go over very well, but she has adjusted.

She is allowed to watch 2 hours of her favorite television shows each day and that is more than enough. She’s allowed at least an hour on the computer/internet, game boy, or outside activity.

I do believe that parents need to supplement their children with educational material, outside of school, because the current curriculum is very inadequate.

By E for Excellence

December 15, 2005 12:05 PM | Link to this

DB, Sasha, V for Vendetta:

1) Nobody suggested there is anything wrong with being a cashier. Yes, there are happy, wonderful people who are cashiers. There are also happy, wonderful people who are brain surgeons. The issue is parents who want to limit their children by assuming that “smart” children are somehow socially illiterate, uncaring misfits. That stereotype is the problem.

2) Nobody cares if you make a typo, but if you don’t know the difference between “insure” and “ensure” you are lacking basic English skills, and that affects (not “effects”) your ability to effectively communicate.

Get it??

By Sasha

December 15, 2005 12:13 PM | Link to this

No, if I don’t know the difference between insure and ensure, then I have a problem with spelling. That is why when I write anything for my students, I double check my spelling. I didn’t realize that I was going to be picked on for making an error. Have a nice life.

By wwww

December 15, 2005 12:15 PM | Link to this

Dsmooth:

Homework IS NOT so parents can sit there and spoon feed the answers to their kids! Maybe you are the exception rather than the rule, and you don’t do that.

I don’t grade homework, and no, it is not because I’m lazy. It is because:

By Amazed (Independent Woman)

December 15, 2005 12:18 PM | Link to this

How did Affirmative Action get into a conversation about parent assigned homework?

Stick to the subject people. A public school education is provided for everyone.

By wwww

December 15, 2005 12:23 PM | Link to this

If I hear one more person say “Georgia is 48th in the country” … well, I don’t know.

FOR THE LAST TIME, GA IS 48th IN THE COUNTRY BECAUSE:

By V for Vendetta

December 15, 2005 12:24 PM | Link to this

Wow, E. Humble, aren’t we? I’m sorry that you think a typo (otherwise known as a mistake) limits our ability to effectively communicate. Must be because you are Excellent and never make mistakes, correct? Thank you for slumming with the plebian masses long enough to educate us all on correct grammar and meaning.

Sasha, don’t feel bad about saying affirmative action sucks… because it does. (Now watch as at least five people call us “racist”)

By Sasha

December 15, 2005 12:26 PM | Link to this

Amazed, I was asked a question about affirmative action by SWC earlier today and I answered it.

By Leia

December 15, 2005 12:26 PM | Link to this

E for Excellence - well said!!

By Manny

December 15, 2005 12:28 PM | Link to this

The reason the country has affirmative action in the first place is what sucks!

By Sasha

December 15, 2005 12:31 PM | Link to this

Thanks, V. Most of those that will call us racists, probably are themselves.

By Sasha

December 15, 2005 12:33 PM | Link to this

Sorry, I made another mistake. I will, however, live and not care what some folks think.

By I_Teach

December 15, 2005 12:36 PM | Link to this

Dsmooth, Not all children need the extra work. I’ve taught all grades…it depends on the class, and the students. I have had classes that nearly everyone needed remediation because 98% of them were below grade level expectations; and I’ve also had classes that 98% of them did NOT need any extra.

It really depends upon the individual child. Also: think of how frustrated a struggling student gets: teacher works them all day, they have HW, then mom and dad jump on the bandwagon. There are plenty of ‘teachable’ moments.

Neither of my sons-one’s in college the other in HS needed it. And, if a child is that far below, then remediation, tutoring, or some other course of action should be taken.

;-)

By Amazed (Independent Woman)

December 15, 2005 12:47 PM | Link to this

Since we are no longer talking about parent-assigned homework, I guess Affrimative Action is just as good a subject.

Some of you need a history lesson. So here goes: (1.) If your family never owned slaves and you were not born during slavery or your parents immigrated after the fact - sometimes life will and should bite you in the appropriate places. (2.) If you are waiting on the ancestors of people who did own slaves and were born during the civil rights movement to pay “us” or provide 40 acre and a mule - you believe in the Easter Bunny. We would probably have a Civil War II, before that happens.

(3.) As for Affirmative Action - that’s as good as it gets and it has not even been that good. When you get inside of an organization, you still have problems moving forward. I do believe that the program can help with the big problem of getting “our” foot into the door. Because before Civil Rights, we could not make that small accomplishment - without the fear of being killed or hurt in some manner.

(5.) If you believe that there are no racial problems in this country - Santa will leave you a nice Mercedes 500 next Sunday.

Now let’s all kiss and make up.

By missteach

December 15, 2005 12:49 PM | Link to this

wwww: thanks for that tidbit. I taught in GA for 2 years (now in another state) and I didn’t know that all kids in GA took the SAT. Thanks for the headsup. :)

By Jake

December 15, 2005 12:56 PM | Link to this

They don’t get enough work in public schools in Georgia if you want them to get into really elite schools like MIT. I did buy a geometry workbook and made my daughter do extra work to help her with that specific subject, but I usually just let her read for pleasure in her spare time. That’s what she prefers to do, but I believe that’s due in part to me reading to her literally since she was in the womb, and all those Saturday trips to the library before she even started pre-K. She maintains straight A’s and has found time for soccer, cheerleading, and marching band, and seems pretty happy. I think V’s kid is probably stupid so she rationalizes by saying achievement isn’t that important. And in an unrelated matter, not only does affirmative action suck, it is downright un-American.

By Angry White Boy

December 15, 2005 01:05 PM | Link to this

wwww - You forgot to mention that 28% of the people that take the SAT in Georgia are black, compared to a national average around 13%. And blacks score much lower on the SAT so state-to-state our scores are among the lowest. However, black Georgian average scores are pretty comparable to black national average scores, as are white Georgian compared to white national scores.

By LWA

December 15, 2005 01:05 PM | Link to this

I believe that assigning additional work is necessary when I feel that my child is not on grade level or is having trouble. In addition, we have teachers who just “pass� students. My seventh grader wrote an essay for English and received a grade of 20/20. However, she misspelled a 3rd grade word in the paper approx. 7 times and her sentence structure was horrible. I questioned the 20/20 grade she had received. The teacher stated that she passed b/c my child had mastered the point of the assignment. In addition, they don’t correct spelling errors and sentence structures. This is an English class. I am concerned b/c as parents, we don’t always know when our child is having trouble until it is to late. My daughter has received nothing lower than a B on her report card so I assumed that all is fine. The new SAT’s require an essay. This is all I could think about. So, as a responsible parent who is concerned, I have been researching words that every 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc. grader should know how to spell and quiz her. I have to try to correct the problem now.

In pre-algebra, she is struggling with fractions. I ask, “Didn’t you have fractions in the 5th grade and 6th grade.� Yes is her response but I didn’t really understand it at that time. Again, her grades in math were always A’s and B’s. So, yes, we have weekly quizzes on fractions and other math concepts to help strengthen her skills.

A child’s education is the responsibility of the child, parent and teacher.

By Dsmooth

December 15, 2005 01:07 PM | Link to this

Sasha, I will not call you a racist, you’re entitled to your opinion. And I’m entitled to mine. No Harm No Foul. And I have my job because I’m highly qualified and I do a great job… that was pretty rude asking if I have my job because of affirmative action.

My son doesn’t need remidiation, but I think he should have homework more than once a week. My son is a high achiever, well balanced child, I just think he gets off scot free during the week and next year in the fifth grade when he has a lot of homework to do, he’s going to be shellshocked. As for GA being 48th… I understand what you are saying about the SAT being the reason, but doing you think if the majority of the kids taking the test were doing homework based activities related to the test, then maybe, just maybe that would change?

Oh to answer, no, I don’t spoon feed my son the answers, if he has a question, I go over it with him until he sees the answer which is generally in the textbook or invite him to use critical thinking to come up with an appropriate answer.

By DB

December 15, 2005 01:08 PM | Link to this

E: I was joking about the typo. Get it?

Yes, you suggested there is something wrong with being a cashier with your comment at the end. Judging people based on what they do for a living is absolutely arrogant. And there are brain surgeons and many doctors who are absolutely unhappy and absolutely unsuccessful in my opinion. That wasn’t my point. Being successful is much more than school and extra assignments. I’ve given my own kids extra assignments, but the more important thing to give them is a good work ethic, good interpersonal skills, and a sense of accomplishment. Extra assignments work for some, but not all. To me, giving assignments is the easy way out. Talk to your kids. Make them think critically. Stimulate their curiosity. I’m not saying giving assignments is wrong, but I see too many parents going to the extreme and hurting their kids in the long run. Too many parents think learning is a race, and they think having a 2nd grader doing calculus actually makes them better at math at the age of 30. That usually isn’t the case.

And I never said that limiting kids is good. No one should limit their kids, but I do think V had a point about some parents take things a little too far and actually ruin them by being “pushy” and living through their children. They give them a sense of inadequacy that lasts a lifetime.

Challenge your kids, but there are many other, more effective, ways in which to do that than to give them extra homework. And the other point I agree with V is that interpersonal skills are extremely important, in many cases more important than education.

By Sasha

December 15, 2005 01:09 PM | Link to this

Yes, I know that I was rude. I was reacting to your blog. You made it sound as if I were not entitled to my opinion.

By Dsmooth

December 15, 2005 01:11 PM | Link to this

Oh my gosh… I made a spelling error, that should have say remediation… my bad..

Angry White Boy, what does RACE have anything to do with the State’s scores. You people amaze me. These blogs ALWAYS take a White/Black turn… Absolutely FREAKING amazing…..

By fk

December 15, 2005 01:14 PM | Link to this

Extra assignments are not needed. I truly believe that if the students do everything that is expected of them, to the very best of their ability, they will succeed. Not every one is a rocket scientist, regardless of what the parent thinks. The real question is whether or not the students are putting forth their best efforts, in everything they do…academics, social activities, etc. The only way to truly gauge that is for the parents to take a step back. They can offer suggestions and ideas, but should never participate. Every parent wants their children to succeed, but the kids must do it on their own terms.

Success is another relative term. Success in life is not simply based on a career and a paycheck. Balance is so very important.

Parental opinions regarding a child’s intelligence and capabilities are subjective and relative. When my son was in the early years of elementary school, a lot of parents complained that their children were not being challenged. The kids were getting in trouble because they were bored. Hmmm…were they implying since my kid was well behaved that he was somehow less intelligent?

Long before kindergarten, my son could tie his own shoes as well as others’, blow his nose and wipe his butt. He was able to interact with other students without getting into trouble or causing havoc. I cannot even begin to count the number of student wonders who walked around with runny noses and velcro shoes, well into the third grade.

I do not believe in homework unless it is reinforcing a difficult topic, but reading at home should always be encouraged. During the long summer breaks, my son did do some exercises in a workbook that came recommended by the elementary school. He never once completed the workbook. The math exercises simply reinforced what he had learned, keeping everything fresh. He spent no more than twenty minutes a week doing that, about one one thousandth of the time he spent swimming and playing video games. Together, we performed fun science experiments once or twice a month. I never gave him extra assignments during the school year. Play time was important.

He is now in the ninth grade, honor roll, all honors classes and TAG. He participates in school sports year round. He has to work twice as hard in football and wrestling…academics come far more easily to him. So what? He knows what he is capable of, and what he can do to improve his skills…and it is all up to him. He has become an awesome manager of his own time. And, he did all of this himself, without extra assignments, just by putting his best foot forward…and that does not mean trying to do his best, it means “doing” it, “himself”. He knows that if he has done his best, nothing more can be asked.

By Dsmooth

December 15, 2005 01:15 PM | Link to this

What do our children learn by thinking that EVERYTHING is this world is a race issue? I think nothing… You have all white schools, all white baseball teams, all white football teams, all black schools, all black baseball teams, all black football teams. What good comes out of this? I grew up with White Kids, Asian, Hawaiian, Puerto Rican, you name it, my dad was in the service… I learned how to deal with people of all cultures… This is so sad that’s it is almost 2006 and we’re still saying well, if the black kids didn’t take the test the scores weould be higher… doesn’t that say well maybe we need to offer more tutoring in the Black Community….AARRGGHHH

By Laura

December 15, 2005 01:37 PM | Link to this

My son’s (competitive, independent) private school tells parents to NOT give any additional school work other than what the school gives. They don’t believe in too much homework, except for reading to be reading, because they are quite demanding during the school day with the kids.

By wwww

December 15, 2005 01:44 PM | Link to this

Oh, please!!

This isn’t a race issue. I’m so tired of everything boiling down to race.

It may come as a shock to some of you who don’t work in education, and sadly, maybe some of you who do, but intelligence and ability has absolutely nothing to do with skin color.

Dsmooth: Finally, SAT scores aren’t going to rise with additional homework. Do you really believe that 47 other states actually have higher average SAT scores because they assign more homework?
There is so much variation from school to school, classroom to classroom, that trying to compare different state SAT averages is completely pointless.

Futhermore, simply by taking the SAT prep course offered, many students raise their score by 100 points or more. Is that a result of more homework? Is it a result of a sudden change in IQ? How about varying modes of instruction and assessment while in school? NO! It is the result of learning how to effectively take a multiple choice test and write a standard 5 paragraph essay. Unfortunately, that is really all that number means.

By Dsmooth

December 15, 2005 02:00 PM | Link to this

WWWW.. No, I do not believe that the other 47 are higher because of homework, but I believe it could start there, with homework that could consist of preparatory activities for the SAT…In Hawaii two times a month in the High School english classes students were required to write a composition based on a novel that they were reading in class or based on whatever the teacher desired, but at least we were writing papers. I agree with you make the teachers more accountable for what they are teaching.

And finally, I agree with you about EVERYTHING boiling down to race… someone brought it up and I’m like, so fed up with all of the world’s problems being based on someone’s skin color…

By me

December 15, 2005 02:01 PM | Link to this

Everyone - Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays et al! Take a moment and enjoy your day off.

By Emily

December 15, 2005 02:10 PM | Link to this

Wow. I have to say how surprised I am at how rude you people are. Y’all are tearing each other apart. No wonder our world is like it is today- nobody can accept that different people have different opinions. Get over the fact that someone doesn’t agree with you. They don’t have to and that’s their right. If everyone would start worrying about what they need to be doing instead of what everyone else is doing, this would be a much better place. Not everyone’s children are going to be doctor’s and laywers. They weren’t meant to be. It is OK to work at Kroger. If someone didn’t work at Kroger, then where would all the cheap doctors and lawyers shop? Everyone is not meant to work to their potential. Hooray for you parents that give your child extra work. I think exercising their brain is good. All I can say is that I hope they don’t hate you for it later. Worksheets are boring!!!!! Give them a life lesson instead of a worksheet on math. Make it fun. Incorporate learning into everyday life!

By SWC

December 15, 2005 02:17 PM | Link to this

WWWW - Amen to your comments!

My kid is in 6th grade and has a very demanding schedule at school with 7 53 minute classes a day, 20 minutes for lunch, and no recess, in addition to a bus schedule that starts at 7:20 a.m. and gets him home at 4:45 p.m. I am so tired of hearing about how coddled our kids are! Too many “educators” have lost sight of the need for children to be children.

Sasha - The reason that I asked the affirmative action question was because your comment about parents buying a college degree for their kids had a pinch of class envy to it with just a dollop of bitterness. The number of parents who can or would buy a library for a school is so infinitesimal it is hardly worth mentioning. I may have incorrectly assumed that you were opposed to “legacies”, and wondered if you were also opposed to affirmative action. I am happy to hear that you think that affirmative action stinks. Hopefully the new Supremes will too.

Amazed - see above for the explanation as to how affirmative action got in the discussion.

By Sasha

December 15, 2005 02:21 PM | Link to this

I wondered where that came from, SWC. I know that few parents can really ‘buy’ a college degree for them kids. I think I just get frustrated when parents try to buy everything for their kids and never let them fail at something. It isn’t everyone. I know that. My frustration just came out today.

By NC Teacher

December 15, 2005 02:41 PM | Link to this

Here is my opinion. I am a teacher in NC and I think “to each their own” as well. If you are a parent who gives extra work at home to help boost the skills or you’re a parent who thinks life lessons and social skills are important, kudos to both of you!! No matter which side of the fence you’re on with this issue, you are all taking an interest in your child’s life, you care about what they do and who they will become. That is the most important thing. I think all of your children will be well-rounded individuals who contribute something good to society. My problem is the flipside of this issue. It could be another blog topic so I’ll be brief. My students’ parents don’t care, period. They don’t read notices, sign homework, check homework, most of the time they don’t know there IS homework. They don’t come to meetings I’ve scheduled and reschduled at their request, don’t email, don’t call (unless it’s to blame me for something), give me wrong phone numbers so I can’t reach them when their child has gotten in trouble, I could go on. So Bravo to all of you who do SOMETHING, ANYTHING at home with your children. They will turn out just fine.

Hope you didn’t mind an NC teacher butting into your GA blog. It was fun. And I am very jealous of all you GA teachers today with a day off!

By Shanon

December 15, 2005 03:07 PM | Link to this

PARENTS: If you really want to help your child be more successful in school, take the following advice:

Read to them. Take them to the library to check out books. Buy them books and encourage them to read to you. Have books in your home. Be a reader yourself to model what a reader looks like. Make them lifelong learners through words.

I say this because I have three classes a day filled with young people who have no vocabularies, no imagination, and no critical thinking skills.

We do a reading pre-test at the start of every semester, and my students come to me behind. I’d say 70% read below grade level - 30% at fourth or fifth grade. And I’m in the ‘burbs, not the inner city or a rural area.

So parents, the best way to supplement your child’s homework would be to encourage them to read. Start early, start young, and don’t stop.

By Dsmooth

December 15, 2005 03:13 PM | Link to this

Well this has been a great blog today… I’m going to go home and just let my boy be a boy… no stress from me

By Dsmooth

December 15, 2005 03:17 PM | Link to this

Actually, We’re going to go to the PTA meeting tonight…

By Paula

December 15, 2005 03:21 PM | Link to this

The blog topic could be “Do you prefer cats or dogs?”, and somehow it would eventually turn into a racial issue! Good grief!

Anyway - if you don’t do anything extra with your kids, I think you’re doing them a disservice. Like Leia said, it doesn’t have to be a chore. Anything can be turned into a teachable moment. It doesn’t have to be academic. You can talk about anything and providing your child with life lessons.

By Mike

December 15, 2005 04:06 PM | Link to this

I think “V” makes an excellent point. Too many parents emphasize grades as somehow a magic indicator of success. However, this is tru only to a degree. A “B” student with excellent personal and leadership skills will enjoy greater success in life than an Introverted “A” student. I have many friends that were above-average but not stellar students who have prospered - book intelligence does not always equal business acumen. Classroom performance does not always equal success in life (an item being missed by most of the home schooling crowd).

I am not implying in anyway that all “A” level students are introverted, lack leadership skills, etc - my own daughter is a straight-A student who also enjoys singing, dancing and plays the violin. Just pointing out that parents should not sacrifice a child being well-rounded in order to make the honor roll.

By SWC

December 15, 2005 04:58 PM | Link to this

Paula - I would hope that the people who contribute to this blog have conversations with their children and provide them with “life lessons” at the very least! There are a lot of bad parents out there, but surely you can’t believe that most of us are so pathetic that we don’t communicate with our children, and teach them things of value. You’re not going to find too many people here who just dump their kids in front of a tv set. We may disagree on many core issues, but negligence is not an issue.

By Paula

December 16, 2005 09:01 AM | Link to this

SWC - you read way too much into what I said! I did not mean to imply that most parents are “pathetic”! So sorry if I offended you.

By SWC

December 16, 2005 01:18 PM | Link to this

Paula - I wasn’t offended!

By FD

December 16, 2005 01:45 PM | Link to this

The initial purpose of affirmative action was to give “qualified persons” the opportunities that may have been denied because of race. However, inferior feeling “whites” decided it was better to grab anyone to fulfill a quota instead of going after the quality persons that were denied opportunities.

By Lee

December 16, 2005 01:59 PM | Link to this

When I was young, my parents gave me a lot of homework. It was called cut the grass, rake the leaves, wash the car, etc., etc. Nowadays, Mom and Dad both have to work to keep the two BMW’s in the garage. Family time is spent at the ballfield, dance lessons, karate lessons, etc. In turn, they now have to hire a crew of illegal aliens to do the yard work, who in turn dump their non-English speaking kids into the school forcing the teachers to spend all their time dealing with that headache.

Now, due to the teacher trying to get a bunch of non-English speaking kids, inclusion kids, discipline problems, and ADD/ADHD kids to pass a basic skills test, your kids are sitting there bored to death learning nothing.

What a vicious web we weave…..

By Tony

December 16, 2005 03:52 PM | Link to this

A couple of relevant items from research:

Graded homework has a huge, positive impact on student achievement. Ungraded homework has very little effect.

Parents’ expectations are a very strong driving force for student achievement. Teachers’ expectations are also highly correlated with student achievement.

Math achievement is one of the best indicators of future success.

Homework has an important place in children’s learning.

By Bookworm

December 19, 2005 12:56 PM | Link to this

I guess I could qualify as what V refers to as a bookworm. I graduated in the top 10 at my highschool, was joint enrolled at Tech while a senior (completed 25 credit hours before i even started my freshman year of college), and I was the STAR student for my high school(earned the top SAT score). I also went to a performing arts magnet high school. I figure skated competitevely for 12 years and played soccer. My mother is a teacher and yes she gave me extra work. I even went to “special programs” at Georgia Tech where I learned “fun” and “cool” things about science and math. I participated in Math Team. But above all else, I believe my childhood was pretty normal. There is nothing wrong with pushing your kids to be the best that they can be. I excelled in academics, performing arts, and figure skating but I also had friends that shared those interests. Many of them are still my friends to this day.

For my parents, it wasn’t about giving me extra work but showing me that learning was fun and helping me develop an insatiable learning appetite of my own. I remember riding to the ice rink with my dad at 430 in the morning with him quizzing me about NASA history or working out logic puzzles with my mother between skating sessions. I never thought of these as extra work because of the way they were approached. To me it was a chance to spend extra time with them and the programs I went to were a chance to spend time with other kids with similar interests and intellect.

By A Student

December 26, 2005 01:46 PM | Link to this

Dear parents,

I am currently a college student and, as such, I thought it would be useful for me to contribute my thoughts and experiences to this discussion. I went to public middle and high schools here in Atlanta, GA. They were, like you probably already know, sub-par. The problem I saw was intellectual stratification. Sure, there were some excellent teachers and rigorous AP classes. But on the bottom of the scale there were dropouts, under-achievers, and sleep-through classes. Given such a wide range of ability, I believe that parents MUST motivate their kids to succeed - to join AP classes, academic teams, etc. - lest they end up on the other side of that scale. I am now an Ivy League student and I am extremely grateful to my parents, who sat me through tough homework, gave me extra assignments, took me to the Atlanta High Museum of Art, and taught me so much.

I also want to address some points made in previous posts. First, it is absolutely possible to achieve both academically and socially. The idea that ‘extra homework’ and ‘academic success’ will turn perfectly good students into social outcasts is absolutely ridiculous. Worse, this is the exact stereotype you parents must fight: believing in this falsehood prevents parents from challenging their kids! The valedictorian in my high school here in Atlanta was extremely social, outgoing, and fun, while maintaining near-perfect grades in AP classes. He is a good person. Now, at my college, I am surrounded by people who were academic-achievers, and I have to tell you: less than 5% of them are socially awkward.

I also shuddered when I read that some of you are okay with having your sons and daughters become baggers and grocers at Krogers? This is terrible! The last thing we need is to know that our parents have no expectations of us – we NEED you in order to succeed in life! Please, even if you do think your son or daughter will bag groceries for the rest of his or her life, keep it to yourself; don’t break our hearts.

I know this is cliché, but you need to realize the importance of having us shoot for the moon, even if you do think we will only land among the stars.

These is all I wanted to share with you. Thank you for reading, A student.