Get Schooled

By oldteacher

December 13, 2005 08:22 AM | Link to this

Letting the kids talk is a wonderful way of getting to know them better. The longer you teach the more you will realize that all kids have problems at home, and with teachers no matter what their race. Letting the kids know how much you care will also go a long way in earning the respect of students and parents.

By Lyn

December 13, 2005 08:25 AM | Link to this

As a white teacher, let me offer YOU a suggestion. Teach your children that no matter what race someone is, the knowledge that he or she has is the focus. If you want your child to learn, stop being a racist. Stop teaching your child to be a racist. I wish I had a dollar for every student who said he hated white people when things didn’t go his way in class. I taught at an all black school, and they were the best years of teaching I’ve ever had. But if you perpetuate this idea that students only see us as white people and not educators, you perpetuate the racism. I could care less if a student is white or black, I just want them to leave my classroom with more knowledge than when they entered. I want them to leave knowing that they are better qualified than the next guy. As a high school teacher, I am not here to teach them self-esteem or allow them to live in the vacuum of their school; I am here to provide them with the skills to think for themselves, analyze, make intelligent decisions and appreciate knowledge. Who absolutely cares if I am black or white. I occasionally move outside the realm of pure knowledge and tell my students that it is okay to recognize someone’s race, but don’t treat them differently because of it. Maybe you should teach your children the same about their opinion of their teachers.

By dahreese

December 13, 2005 08:38 AM | Link to this

Thank you to the parent who made the above suggestion. Sometime this ddoes help defuse tense moments in class and student-teacher relations.

But one of your thoughts concerns me greatly, so may I beg a question; Why is it that “students see you as a white person” [who does not care about them or their education]?

I, and other teachers, could wish that was the only hindrance.

Again, thank you for your sincere concern.

By Michael

December 13, 2005 08:45 AM | Link to this

As a thirty plus year teacher who spent many years teaching in majority black schools, I can support what both the parent and the teacher are saying. Many teachers and students come to the classroom with preconceived notions. My experience is that once you get parents and students to understand that the child is going to get fair treatment at your hands, regardless of race, many of your problems would be lessened. I finished my career in a school that was 70% black. I don’t know what it means but I guess I was so accepted by my black students that one once referred to me by the “n” word even though I am white. I turned it into a teachable moment to point out to them that using that word, even toward another black person, was disrespectful. My reputation for fair treatment of all students was such that during my time as an administrator, black parents would ask that I deal with their child rather than my African American assistant. It’s all a matter of respect for all of your students, regardless of race.

By Had Enough

December 13, 2005 08:50 AM | Link to this

Why should the teacher bow down to black students? Lakisha doesn’t like a white person being her teacher? Too bad. Later in life, her boss MIGHT happen to be white, and what then? What ever happened to all students respecting their teachers,regardless of the race of student OR teacher?

By Beverly

December 13, 2005 09:01 AM | Link to this

“Had Enough,” I don’t think it’s a matter of bowing down to black students. It’s a matter of reaching out, building trust and letting them know that you care. A teacher has to reach out to ALL students, but the approach probably has to be different for each student. No one is saying to kiss black students’ behinds; we’re just saying that trust has to be built. This is not a bias-free world. Whether we like to admit it or not, race affects everything. It is really easy as a white person to say that you don’t pay attention to race, you treat everyone equally, and you see no evidence of racism. As a black/hispanic woman I invite you to walk in my schoes for one day to get a true picture of what it’s like to be of color in this country. I teach my brown daughter to work hard and do her best without asking for special favors. She knows that she has to rely on her smarts to get ahead, and she also knows that she MUST have unquestionable respect for her teachers, no matter what their race. My daughter has had wonderful teachers and great experiences. That being said, that is not always the case. Some students have had bad experiences with racist adults, or they have simply had no interaction with people of other races and are trying to separate stereotypes from reality. Give them a break; black students don’t want special treatment, just the opportunity to build relationships with people with whome they are unfamiliar.

By Taxpayer

December 13, 2005 09:03 AM | Link to this

What about the reverse situation? My child’s black teacher constantly ranted against “the white government” and its “war to eradicate the black man.” She told the students that more blacks than whites were being drafted (uh, no draft since the 70s, dear) and that AIDS was a tool invented by white men and released into the black community by white scientists to bring about a black holocaust. Aside from being just plain crazy, her comments were very damaging in many, many ways. White and black children from that class, who had known each other since kindergarten and ate lunch together every day, were suddenly awkward and uncomfortable around each other. Talking with the teacher did no good — we were only trying to “oppress” her. Talking with the principal and other administrators also did no good — “race is a sensitive issue.” That one teacher did more to spread racism and hatred in one school year than anyone could have imagined. Her hateful (and ignorant) words are still in the minds of the children she spewed them on. How unbelievably sad. What long-term effect do you think this is going to have? I cringe to think.

By Had Enough

December 13, 2005 09:09 AM | Link to this

Beverly, you are right. I respect your comments above. If only more parents had the same beliefs as you do about raising your daughter and the value of education… I admit, I let one bad experience with a tough group of kids get me jaded and bitter against teaching. Thank you for showing me a different perspective.

By kdw

December 13, 2005 09:10 AM | Link to this

I don’t know why the teacher would have to go through that much effort to get a child’s respect. I am a Black woman and the mother to a Black middle-schooler. I demand that he show his teachers and other school personnel the same respect he shows me. I don’t care about the teacher’s race, gender, height, weight, or ability. They are in a position of authority. He has been taught that bad behavior is unacceptable no matter what the circumstances.
If the teacher WANTS to know that information, turn it into a writing assignment…maybe one that they can re-work and build on as the semester progresses. But I don’t think that should be NECESSARY in order to teach the class.

By Beverly

December 13, 2005 09:18 AM | Link to this

Taxpayer, that teacher should have been fired! That’s just crazy. I have friends who are “down for the cause,” and they spout racist remarks in front of my daughter. I tell her, right in front of them, that what they’re saying is wrong and hateful. I don’t understand why the administration would allow her to get away with that? That’s not free speech, that’s just stupidity.

By SWC

December 13, 2005 09:19 AM | Link to this

It is unfortunate that blacks view whites negatively, but it is a fact of life and needs to be addressed sensibly. I hate group identity politics and abhor the way the emphasis on multi-culturalism has damaged and divided our country, but being indignant about the situation is not going to lead toward any kind of progress with reaching students.

Honey is more effective than vinegar, and the teacher who suggests talking to the kids about their lives has the right approach. Showing kids that you care about them builds TRUST and bridges the culture gap. Many of these kids have inadequate adult role models, and teachers can help fill the gap. Its a huge responsibility, but without positive reinforcement the teachers job will be harder in the long run.

In general I think that many of the contributors to this blog have too harsh an attitude about kids in general, and want to punish them through stern treatment rather than lead them. I am in no way advocating allowing disruptive kids to run pell mell through the classroom, but I believe that they would behave better if the school structure wasn’t as punitive. If school is a welcoming place that understands that children need to play, to get exercise and fresh air, and to socialize, to have a civilized time to eat lunch, in addition to the necessary academic programs, then you might have happier students and happier teachers. Its hard to reach kids if there is little or no down time, no time for conversation, for human interaction, for adult-child communication.

In the attempt to improve test scores we are often ignoring the very souls and psyches of our children, to everyones detriment.

By ms.rogers

December 13, 2005 09:28 AM | Link to this

it is not always about white and black teachers.IT IS ABOUT YHE CHILD/CHILDREN.THE WHOLE CHILD.

By Dan

December 13, 2005 09:54 AM | Link to this

Anybody remember the book/movie A Time to Kill?? Now close your eyes and imagine that there was a blog suggesting a teacher should adapt to the ways of their disruptive kids to understand them better rather than the kids adapting to authority and taking advantage of the the great opportunity (thats correct opportunity not right) afforded them. Now imagine the teacher was black and the students were white.
A black teacher going into a white school would be seen as diversifying and enriching and kids would be urged to see her point of view. Just like a black teacher in a white school is surrounded by “white culture” so it is in the reverse rolls. The teacher sees and hears everyday the students favorite music and TV and family issues maybe what is needed is for the teacher to share their life so the kids see it is not all that different

By SWC

December 13, 2005 09:56 AM | Link to this

Taxpayer: The next time that happens, contact David Horowitz at www.FrontPagemag.com. He has a group called “Students for Academic Freedom” that is fighting the Ward Churchills of the world on college campuses and is now embarking on a project that tackles exactly what you experienced in the public schools. With Horowitz’s leadership, many legislatures around the country are getting involved. There is a petition drive going on right now targeting state Governors. Horowitz was on O’Reilly last nite if you happened to see it.

In the short term I would also contact the Superintendent, School Board, State Superintendent, and even call the Governor’s office. I’d also write your local newspaper - after trying everything else, and reporting on the situation. Organize parents and hit the administrators as a group. Contact your local state senators and reps. You CAN make a difference.

Teachers who use this poisonous anti-American anti-white demagoguery needs to be publicly exposed. You may even want to contact O’Reilly or Sean Hannity - this is a big issue that they cover.

By Becky

December 13, 2005 10:01 AM | Link to this

Taxpayer, sorry but I don’t believe your story. I think that you are just trying to get a rise out of some of the people here.

By Shannon

December 13, 2005 10:02 AM | Link to this

This is somewhat sad. As an African American woman from Pennsylvania. some of my nicest, most compassionate and best qualified teachers happened to be white. At home I was not taught to see them as ‘white people,’ but respect them as my teachers. If I perceived that a teacher was racist, I was taught at home how to address those issues - still respectively. As for the teacher who is ‘down for the cause.’ It is great to have a sense of pride about your heritage, as I and many other African Americans share, but it is wrong to polarize the black and white students in the class. And no, we do not live in a colorblind society and racism is and everyday reality, but I think that sensitivity begins at home.

By mel

December 13, 2005 10:07 AM | Link to this

Why should you wait until the last day of school to do this?? Why can’t this be done the first week? Seems like it would make the teacher’s job easier to go ahead and start building up trust with the kids from day one as opposed to building trust to send them off on Summer Vacation! Am I missing something?

By Melllllll1

December 13, 2005 10:09 AM | Link to this

It goes both ways. I have had teachers of color that obviously had a “chip on their shoulders” and had the power take their prejudice out on me, only seeing a white child sitting in front of them. Of course at the time I didn’t understand what their problem was or even that they had a problem. On the other hand I had many teachers, black and white, that race, color or religion didn’t mean a thing and only wanted to teach. My favorite teacher in the world was my 7th grade science teacher who happened to be black. I made straight A’s in her class (which was so unlike me). She loved teaching and did a wonderful job of it. That was over 40 years ago and I still remember her name and how lovely she always was to everyone. Good teachers aren’t taught in college how to be good teachers. There are very few that have the God given gift.

By ALA

December 13, 2005 10:16 AM | Link to this

As a 35+ African American parent, who has a White step father, which means i have a lot of white relatives, my family doesn’t see color. But it’s sad to say, when you have (Black)teachers that would say to a 7 year little girl that she should not befriend a (White)teachers becasue they don’t care about you the same way and that they don’t have your best at hand. With my experiences from Elementary to now Middle School, it doesn’t matter what the color, as long as you are sincere in your heart about teaching all kids the very best and making sure that they endure all that they can. Honestly, with what happened to my daughter made her unconfortable with trusting Black teachers. But i had to show her and help her understand that no matter what the color you should look at each person as an individual.

Oh yeah, and for the record any teacher be it Black, White, Hispanic etc. that disrepects any culture should be removed from teaching in the United States.

By noa

December 13, 2005 10:21 AM | Link to this

I graduated from highschool four years ago. I attended a predominantly white school in Conyers. Truthfully, at this time, all highschools in Conyers was predominantly white. I’ve had some good teachers across the board, both white and black. I often felt specialized, as though my performance was not indicative of other black high school students. I remember when my 11th grade teacher told me that she thought that the colleges I wanted to apply to were out of my reach, and I should consider getting a technical diploma. I’m not anti technical diploma, but I am anti mediocrity. Long story short I decided to attend an HBCU, and my collegiate experience was enriched because of it. Yeah, a good teacher is a good teacher, but racism does exist, thats a fact, and even good teachers have prejudices. A parent’s goal is to ensure that their child attains the best eduacation possible. If their is a qualified black teacher and a qualified white teacher why wouldn’t you send your child to the teacher who most reflects your milieu.

By MMM

December 13, 2005 10:24 AM | Link to this

SWC I agree that sometimes we (and I include myself in this) seem very harsh in this blog. Laughing, joy, and celebrating our accomplishments should all be a part of childhood. There is too much anger in this world.

Too often today there is a false feeling to behavior that is done just because it is PC. That is why I think that giving space to simply listen without it being part of an assignment and with no right or wrong answers could be very powerful. The actual thinking takes place in the moment BETWEEN the question and the answer. We sometimes forget that there are two souls that must connect in order to grow.

By Becky

December 13, 2005 10:28 AM | Link to this

Me! A good teacher would get to know their students at the beginning of the year.

By Swangirl

December 13, 2005 10:28 AM | Link to this

I think the parent’s suggestion is commendable but not for the same reason. Such an exercise at the start of school, not the end of the year, involving all the students, regardless of race, would be beneficial for the entire class to get to know each other better. And for the teacher to “learn” her students.

“The reason I have suggested all of that is because the kids see you as a white person. They do not believe that you can truly care about their education.”

I’m sorry but this is pretty broad assumption. Do all black children feel this way? Maybe some of their parents do, but I don’t think all the kids do. If they’ve been treated fairly in the past, why would they assume something different unless their parents told them not to trust a white teacher?

I am not denying that black children have encountered racist or uncaring white teachers. It certainly happens. But to assume that they ALL feel this way is a bit much.

By ASA

December 13, 2005 10:42 AM | Link to this

Does anyone out there that reads these things remember Avondale High’s first black teacher? I think the year was 1966. We had our first black students and one black teacher - a male biology teacher. We had a talking to by our teachers the summer before these people attended/started work at Avondale the following fall. We were given strict orders - respect this young man and his position - no excuses, no crazy behavior or we were outta there. Well, the young man started teaching that following fall and we nearly fell over ourselves going by his class to get a look. What we saw was a well dressed young man, very professional and very friendly. How utterly scary it must have been for him. When he opened his mouth, about two minutes in the conversation, you saw what lay beneath that skin, a very intelligent, kind, friendly person - not a curiosity. I hope that - nearly 40 years later - he is alive, happy and living a good retirement. I hope and pray as a student, a white student, I was able to show him the good manners my Mom and Dad insisted that I portray to everyone. What a sacrifice it was for that young man to go to work in such an environment - his presence was an education in itself. I wonder what he would think - 40 years later - that we are still having the same - and sometimes even more hostile - conversations about color…

By Sarah

December 13, 2005 10:46 AM | Link to this

You know, I read this teacher/parent exchange the other day when it was first posted. What struck me most then is the same question I’m wondering about now: why does the parent assume that the teacher has made no effort to reach out to the students in her class? I may have misinterpreted, but the parent’s suggestions (at least the way they were written) sounded condescending. She states that the teacher is ineffectual because the children see her as a “white” person. My experience is that children are color blind unless taught otherwise. Who taught these elementary students to see a teacher as a “white person” and not just as a teacher?

By mamaJ

December 13, 2005 10:52 AM | Link to this

All of the comments so far, are very thought provoking, but the first commenter that said getting to know the kids and them you, plus showing that you loved them and wanted the best education for them, was right on target. Isn’t that what brings out the best in all of us, kids and adults alike—someone who seems to care about us and are interested in OUR lives?

By SWC

December 13, 2005 11:03 AM | Link to this

Becky - Taxpayer speaks the truth - this does happen, in classrooms and colleges all over the country- that is why we have to have groups like “Students for Academic Freedom” - to counteract the predominately left-wing bias and propaganda.

noa: You said, “If their is a qualified black teacher and a qualified white teacher why wouldn’t you send your child to the teacher who most reflects your milieu”. Now what do you think happens when a white person says exactly what you said? Hmmmmmm? I thought that we were supposed to be seeking “diversity”. Isn’t that what we’ve been told since The Sixties? This is the crux of the problem, and explains why black students enter school not trusting white people.

Swangirl - There are ALWAYS exceptions to the rule. That should go without saying.

By Dan

December 13, 2005 11:07 AM | Link to this

Lots of good comments, obviously all people have some bias, it is human nature the problem is it is always perceived as bad and it is usally covered by political correctness. In any situation a minority whether it be racial, religious, language, height, body type, disabled whatever, is a curiosity. Those who say they dont see such differneces are being dishonest, todays political correctness has made people afraid to even acknowledge a difference for fear of being branded racist or insensitive. Acknowledgment or curiosity of a differnence is the only way you can understand. Judging prior to understanding is the problem.
I suspect that in the case of a white teacher, who chose to teach at a black school (its not like they have a draft) has a lot more understanding of black culture than the students do of white culture, many comments here still suggest that the teacher should reach out, (and of course they always should) but the teacher reached out simply by being there, the next move is for the students and parents

By Tman

December 13, 2005 11:33 AM | Link to this

Does the white teachers comments really surprise us and or the response the parent gave. Trust in whites is something that alot of black families do not instill in their children. The past has clouded the future. Our children are a reflection of us “as we are they will be”. I hear it from black folks all the time white man this white man that/white women this white women that. These words are used in front of our children and at the same time you have built a non-trust factor in that child. If you speak it they will believe it. There are so many black parents using race as a factor of discription. At that point you have taught your child not to trust white’s. When do we stop being racist ourselves and trust our fellow man: white, black, red, yellow. Why does it matter. As a black parent of 3 there is no black man or white man, there is just the man.

By Becky

December 13, 2005 11:40 AM | Link to this

I could understand it happening in college classrooms, but not in public schools.

By Decaturparent

December 13, 2005 11:45 AM | Link to this

I think that getting to know your students at the beginning of the year is a great idea regardless of race. Just because the children are the same race as the teacher still doesn’t mean that they automatically understand eachother. At my child’s school, there are classroom-wide morning meetings every day where the teacher and the kids can talk about things in their lives that are important to them personally, work out disagreements between classmates and/or the teacher or talk about current events. These meetings work wonders at our school to help the teacher and the students understand eachother and have given my daughter and I a chance to have some very important conversations at home.

By Amazed (Independent Woman)

December 13, 2005 12:11 PM | Link to this

Patti,

I feel like you are picking on me today. I wrote the suggestions last week.

Most of the readers only latched onto the: “The reason I have suggested all of that is because the kids see you as a white person. They do not believe that you can truly care about their education.”

You have to remember that outside of our work lives and school, these kids do not have much contact with white people. We do not attend church or other activities and many do not live within the same communities.

I have always lived in diverse neighborhoods and had other races in my home. However, I had many friends - who have never had the same experiences as myself or my child.

Some of the readers even suggested that the parents put the “white people don’t care about you” message in the childs head. That’s not the case. It’s ingrained within our society, just look at some of the comments on other blogs and sometimes on this blog.

You have to get to know the kids on a personal level.

By Amazed (Independent Woman)

December 13, 2005 12:12 PM | Link to this

Also, I didn’t mean to say last day as in May 2006. I was referring to the last day for Christmas break or it could be Spring Break 2006.

By Robert

December 13, 2005 12:13 PM | Link to this

Most of you know me… I teach high school science. Although I love to get to know my students, I focus on content in the classroom. If I do get to know them, that is a bonus. I cannot let any drama in high school affect their grade, and THEY should not let their drama in high school affect their learning nor their grade.

The GA EOCT and the GA Graduation Test doesn’t care about their drama. Those tests do not care if the students parents become divorced. Those tests do not care if the student just broke up with their boyfriend/girlfriend. And, those tests certainly do not care about the student’s race.

Do I care about my students - of course! Should my feelings affect the way I teach or the content that I teach or the grade that the students get through performance assessment? Heck NO!

Hey - it is fine with me if a student hates my guts as long as they learn. I am not there for a popularity contest. If I can get the students to learn the content, to pass the EOCT, to pass the graduation test, and to go on to be success (college, etc.), THEN I am happy!

By Angry White Boy

December 13, 2005 12:50 PM | Link to this

I think the intent was terrific, a black person making suggestions of how white teachers could more effectively communicate with their black students. However, the comment also seems to imply white teachers should make an extra or special effort to reach out to blacks because of the black cultural bias toward white people. Let’s see, white people should stop being bigoted or biased toward black people and they should also make special efforts to counteract black people’s bigotry and bias toward them. Shouldn’t the black community be working toward removing it’s anti-white cultural biases instead? And by the way “ingrained within our society” means the adults in your community, parents included, are putting the “white people don’t care about youâ€? message in the kid’s heads. these are the cultural values the adults are transmitting to your children by your actions and words.

By Try this one

December 13, 2005 12:51 PM | Link to this

Earn their trust.

Ask your students to list the names of the other students in the room on two sheets of paper, leaving a space between each name.

Then have them think of the nicest thing they can say about each of their classmates and write it down.

Have them turn them in.

Then write down the name of each student on a separate sheet of paper, and list what everyone else had said about that individual.

Give each student his or her list.

See how this affects their attitudes towards you and each other. But understand the test of time will surely tell the tale. Don’t be surprised to see the lists resurface 20 years from now.

By Leia

December 13, 2005 12:58 PM | Link to this

Angry White Boy - I hate to agree with someone with your name, but I must! I don’t want anyone doing my child any special “favors” because he is African-American! You don’t have to treat my child as though he were a different species! Treat him the same way you’d treat the White children! You don’t have to “get to know his culture, blah, blah, blah.” He is American. Treat him with the same respect you would any other student in your class. My husband and I haven’t taught him that “whitey doesn’t care if he learns.” That is absurd!! Hopefully, nobody even speaks that way to their children!

Try to stop being so divisive. We are human beings, just like you.

By Trayce Anderson

December 13, 2005 01:23 PM | Link to this

Had enough,

I can understand how sometimes one bad experience can turn you against a whole group of people. I moved to the south because I wanted my children to enjoy the experience of going to a school with a diverse mixture of children. That is what the real world is like. If kids are going to schools with mostly 1 race, they are going to be distrustful of something different. Especially if they hear mom and dad and grandma and granpa talk about the old days. Sometimes it causes you to have an automatic chip on your shoulder. But a lot of parents when they talk of the old days only give on point of view. The don’t talk about the countless people of other races that fought our struggle with us, making it their struggle. Kids are hearing one point of view - an us against them point of view.And it is wrong. We need to start coming together as Americans. Did 9/11 teach us anything?

By Amazed (Independent Woman)

December 13, 2005 01:26 PM | Link to this

To Leia and Angry White Boy -

I did not suggest that the teacher do this for her black students, it was a suggestion for the entire class. The teacher pointed out that the class was entirely African American and suggested that this was part of the problem - “the teacher” was experiencing. She was having a problem with getting the kids to trust her.

I did not suggest that this is a problem for all African American children and do not believe they are different or need special treatment. It was a suggestion to help the teacher identify with the children. We all need to identify with other people and the suggestion was just away to help her to identify with them.

You have all turned this into a black against white issue. Or another, black people need special treatment issue.

We are all different and when I meet people, I always use the differences to remember their names. It doesn’t mean I hate you because you are bald or overweight. It keeps me from calling you “John”, - who might have hair down to his knees and weights 95lbs.

If you are going to get someone to Trust you, you have to find a common bond. It’s like the game where you turn your back and fall backwards for the next person to catch you.

You don’t hire people to work for you, that you do not trust. You don’t rely on information from a person you do not trust. It was a suggestion to build trust, get over it.

By Becky

December 13, 2005 01:29 PM | Link to this

Kids are kids. They are influenced by everyone and everything. Parents and teachers and all of society need to be a positive influence on them.

By Angry White Boy

December 13, 2005 01:46 PM | Link to this

I’m with you Leia. I think one of the ways to get over this racial nonsense is to emphasize or even mention it less and ignore it more. I do believe Amazed had the best of intentions, but to me the implication was whitey had to do something about it, which I resent. My father came to this country in the bottom of a boat too, albeit not in chains. I was removed from a gifted student program in 7th grade because I got in a fight with a black kid, although the fight had nothing to do with the color of anyone’s skin. My dismissal had a lot to do with being in a 98% black school and it being 1963. It’s so sad that 40 years later these issues continue to get in the way of better education.

By teacher

December 13, 2005 01:47 PM | Link to this

If a teacher has to ask thier students what they like and what they do most the time then the teacher must not be paying much attention to the students. I know what my students grades are in all the other classes. I check and praise the ones that are doing good elsewhere and talk to the ones that are not doing good elsewhere. I know who works at Pizza Hut, has a young child, etc. because we talk as classes start and in the hall etc. I hear their conversations and they like me to know what is going on. I share a little about whats going on with myself but just enough. Maybe that is why I have very few students fail. I like for them to want to pass for me and themselves. They know it makes me feel good when they succeed in my class and that I want them to feel good for succeeding for themselves. But they do not have to write me a paper or be formaly asked for me to know who they are. And white or black who cares. We are all in this together.

By Amazed (Independent Woman)

December 13, 2005 02:06 PM | Link to this

Teacher, You have obviously built a great deal of trust, with your students. I also agree wholeheartedly, with your first statement. That statement, by itself, shows what type of teacher you are. You are also, correct - who cares if you are black or white. If a teacher, has established trust, using all the techniques you stated - I believe we would all be better off.

I don’t often get the feeling, that we are all in this together from the people on this blog. I read the harsh things said about teachers and the harsh things said about parents.

By Leia

December 13, 2005 02:06 PM | Link to this

Amazed - I didn’t address your comment. I was “talking” to Angry White Boy. I don’t need to “get over” anything! I am a teacher, and I know that first and foremost, my job is to educate, not to become friends with my students - Black or White. If I have time (haha) I always get to know the students. I go watch them play sports; I see them at work; I see their plays. I am not the one who turned this into a racial thing - it started out that way when you made your suggestion to the teacher who felt as if her students viewed her as a “white” person and not a teacher.

By posterchild

December 13, 2005 02:13 PM | Link to this

I have spent 5 years teaching in predominantly black schools, and the things that I find the most disturbing is having 15-year old 8th graders saying you are the first white person they’ve ever talked to in person. Sounds like parents and adults in their communities need to do a better job of exposing their kids to other people outside of school. I got along just fine with my kids, because I’d take some time each week to allow dialogue to promote learning about cultures other than black America. The questions I got asked most had to do with whether or not my family was rich, if I listened to country music, and if they could see what my hair felt like.

By SET

December 13, 2005 02:27 PM | Link to this

This is an interesting thread.

I agree with the writer who reminded us that Teachers are not peers of the students and they certainly are not to become “friends” of the students who are in the school.

So enough of “getting to know you, getting to know all about you”.

My model of urban teacher is Modesty Blaise and Willie Garvin. You’d have to have that skill set to survive and thrive. Charming, competent, tough and dangerous.

The racial issue is a dodge. The good black teachers I’ve known were so tough and exacting that the students - especially the black students - would rather have had the average white teacher who didn’t have so much to prove. I have been on the receiving end of a “To Sir With Love” type teacher on occasion. You remember them. You were always on alert with them in the room.

It is currently difficult for white teachers to lower the boom early and often on black kids. They have problems with white guilt and with whining parents and administrations. This was not the case when I was in school as a student. Lucky me. Guess why I got a postgraduate degree.

The last thing kids need is to be comfortable, happy and loved in class. They all have too much coddling. That’s why the prisons are full. If the schools were tougher on elementry and secondary students they wouldn’t get caught so much at least. Probably could plea bargain better also.

Less love, more boot in the behind. Far as I care we can import Irishwomen and East Indians to teach. If we get white guilt out of the schools and work with the little darlings nose to nose the students just might survive this brave new world we are creating for them.

By JAZZYT

December 13, 2005 02:28 PM | Link to this

The suggestion that AMAZED gave was good. I beleive a lot of people have taken the suggestion and ran with it, just made a bigger issue out of something that meant to help a teacher connect w/ her/his students. The BIG issue is that racism does exist and that it happens for every color. You are not racist then don’t sit around and try to come up with ways to make others beleive you. You can only be yourself. The truth is we are all a mixed race, so when you promote racism against another race then 9 times out of ten you are promoting it against yourself. Personally my great-grandfather was white his wife a full blooded Cherokee Indian, so although I am classified as African American Who really knows. I am proud of my people b/c of the accomplishments and struggles that we encountered in the past but as one commented it wasn’t just african american that fought for us or died for us. We can’t go back in time and change what has already been but we can change what is happening now. I teach my daughters to love and respect everyone and I also speak with them about things my encounter in life b/c of other peoples idiotic ways, rather it is racism, sexism or any other “ism”. I have encountered both black and white teachers some good ,some bad race doesnt make a “good/bad teacher” or a “good/bad student”. We as humans need to respect others peoples differences.

By m2c

December 13, 2005 02:31 PM | Link to this

White, Black, Brown, Yellow, Red or Purple we are all people we all bleed red and we all want and need respect, attention and love. Teachers should not be the only the only ones educating our children. Race/color/size/sex are only an issue if we allow it to be, children are born as loving trusting people, they are taught to hate. If you treat people different they will act different. Teach with respect and true concern and race won’t be an issue.

By Taxpayer

December 13, 2005 02:35 PM | Link to this

Becky, I wish my story were NOT true. I don’t want to violate the blog rules, but the school is Henderson Middle, and this happened last year. As for those who have suggested various actions, I have no desire to fall in with the Bill O’Reilly faction or anyone else. I spoke up and fought this racism because it is just plain WRONG. I DID contact a reporter at the AJC (who ignored me), and many parents went to the principal and other DeKalb administrators (and the administrators ignored THEM). I spoke directly with our middle school area director who listened with great compassion — and did nothing. Do you know what upset me the most about this whole thing? It was the awful effect that this teacher’s lies and hate had on the black and white kids who had been friends for so long. It was bad enough for this teacher to spout garbage, but when that garbage turned into an acid that was dissolving the bonds of kids’ friendships, as far as I am concerned, the teacher was committing the ultimate sort of hate crime. Fortunately, my child has been blessed to have excellent teachers of different races and ethnicities, and both sexes, and we talk, talk, talk about everything. But I had to dry her tears when her black friends refused to sit with her and their other white friends at lunch because of what that teacher had said. I had to answer many anguished questions from her when the teacher talked about “the white government drafting black people” when our own nephew was so deep in Iraq that we had no news from him for 6 months. There is no excuse for ANYONE to sow hate. Believe my story or not — we live with the consequences to this day.

By Sara

December 13, 2005 02:41 PM | Link to this

I am with SET, Lets get rid of the race issue altogether, The children are there to learn and the teachers are there to educate. Too much time is spent worrying about these sensitivity issues and our kids are suffering with below par educations. Respect for the authority figure is a must, if there is an issue with the authority figure at hand then that should be dealt with BY THE PARENT through the proper channels. Children are not little adults, they are children and should be treated as such. There should be no question in their mind that they must respect their elder regardless of race or any other distinguishing factor.

By Leia

December 13, 2005 02:44 PM | Link to this

Sara - Amen!!

By Taxpayer

December 13, 2005 02:45 PM | Link to this

A final comment (been a blog hog today, sorry): Amazed, I really appreciate your suggestions and ideas, and thank you for making people THINK about how they treat each other.

By Becky

December 13, 2005 02:53 PM | Link to this

I am so sorry to hear that, Taxpayer, I also teach in a middle school. Since I teach in a smaller system, I hope that a teacher like that would not be tolerated.

By Britt

December 13, 2005 02:56 PM | Link to this

Black children would not be so hesistant at trusting a white teacher if they were not taught such thoughts at home. Modern white Americans are being punished for something that happened nearly two centuries ago. Children who are taught about history in school are not going to automatically look at their teacher and think to themselves, “I am not going to trust him/her because of how the history book depicts them”. They are more prone to think this way due to what they are taught at home. If African Americans can post blame to the past then maybe children of today would not be taught to view modern white Americans so harshly. Many modern Americans would apologize in a heart beat for what history has done but that will not change anything. It is up to us to be mature and teach our children that the past is the past and white Americans as well as African Americans are good people.

By Robert

December 13, 2005 03:19 PM | Link to this

Here is a great blog question….

The State of Georgia revenues continue to rise. It seems that with each quarter, the revenues increase and surpass everyone’s expectations. Why then, when it comes to the teachers salaries, we are not even given enough of an increase to cover the cost of living increase?

Where is this “extra” money going? Why isn’t the real need of teacher shortage addressed by dramatically increasing the teacher salary in order to attract better qualified individuals into the teaching profession? At least the “areas of need” teachers such as high school math, science, etc. should be given an increase, IMHO.

By Amazed (Independent Woman)

December 13, 2005 03:22 PM | Link to this

Thanks posterchild, for sharing your method of bonding with children. What you said about the 8th grader, is the exact situation, I was hoping to help the readers understand.

However, it will take more than the parents to promote diverisity of neighboorhoods, churches and the community in general. There was an article about re-segregation and it is so true. An article last month called it white-flight. In addition, we also have to deal with income segregation.

White kids react in the same way, when faced with the similar situation. I have had white children ask me questions about being black.

By Susie

December 13, 2005 03:35 PM | Link to this

“The reason I have suggested all of that is because the kids see you as a white person. They do not believe that you can truly care about their education.”

They “see you as a white person??” And WHY is THAT? They don’t believe a white teacher can truly care about their education? WHERE on earth would they learn to believe THAT? Really? Who put that into their heads? I won’t mince words, here. They learned it at HOME, because they did NOT learn it at SCHOOL.

That said, I do like your suggestions, I think it would be a good thing to do during the FIRST week of school, so that the teacher can learn “who” each child is early enough to make a difference throughout the school year. But I like the suggestions for ALL children, not just for the purpose of “race relations.”

By modest

December 13, 2005 03:51 PM | Link to this

You dont need a raise. You get summers off.

By Marshmallow

December 13, 2005 03:55 PM | Link to this

Wow. I’m pleasantly surprised by the comments here. Unfortunately, most of you are preaching to the choir. The folks that need to be in on this discussion either don’t read the paper, don’t have Internet access or generally just don’t give a damn.

Kudos to all of you! Some great ideas here and it helps me with my 8 and 5-year old at their school!

By Sara

December 13, 2005 03:56 PM | Link to this

I find this debate to be absolutely ridiculous, because all of this should be a non-issue in school! It is a place for learning and intellectual growth. Of all the success stories that have been told over the years of educators (of all colors) taking an under acheiving group and turning things around, their sucess came from teaching the children in terms of self enpowerment. Children need to learn accountability and that regardless of the factors that they are surrounded by, they above any thing else are responsible for their success or their failure. All of us through out our lives are going to be subjected to the opinions and actions of others, The only control we have is over ourselves and whether we allow our selves to be victimized or empowered.

By oldteacher

December 13, 2005 04:02 PM | Link to this

Well, it was a good discussion until two jerks chimed in.

By oldteacher

December 13, 2005 04:05 PM | Link to this

We get paid for the number of days that we work. Everyone doesn’t get the summer off. Some school systems in Georgia have a year round school. I would gladly work 220 or more days of the years but like most of you, I don’t plan to work unless I get paid.

By alice

December 13, 2005 04:09 PM | Link to this

Taxpayer (and others)

Henderson Middle has had many serious problems (like a teacher who wasn’t teaching). I watched in amazement as parents complained to the school administration, the system administration and finally, the PSC. The PSC required that the teacher have a mentor teacher with her for the rest of the time — and yet the school administrator refused to let parents move out of the class.

So your story doesn’t surprise me at all. DCSS really stinks right now and gets (in my opinion) the bottom of the barrel when it comes to teachers.

By Robert

December 13, 2005 04:12 PM | Link to this

My question is not about summers off or even number of days worked…. my question was simply that teacher salaries in GA have not even kept up with the cost of living increases. This is in spite of the fact that GA revenues have continued to increase above expectations.

By SWC

December 13, 2005 04:14 PM | Link to this

The last thing kids need is to be comfortable, happy and loved in class. They all have too much coddling.

Set et al - Here we go again with the spoiled kids routine. Of course kids need to be comfortable, happy and loved - don’t you??? Even my dog understands this fact of life. If you love them and reward them for good behavior they will love you back and as a bonus they will behave. Some of these kids are desperate for love, for recognition, for adult role models. Depriving them of humanizing influences is not going to help them thrive as adults. Talk about a recipe for creating future prison inmates! Don’t spoil them with love and understanding.

Anyone with any sense who has ever worked in the corporate world will also tell you the same thing. You do not motivate your employees by scaring them, or threatening them, or telling them how much they suck. You motivate them by rewarding them when they perform well. A pat on the back goes a lot farther than a kick in the butt.

By oldteacher

December 13, 2005 04:19 PM | Link to this

I was responding to the blogger who said that teachers didn’t need a raise and the one who said we had summers ‘off’. IMHO, they don’t know what they are talking about. I wish I knew where all the money was going. All we here at my school is that we don’t have any money. I can’t get them to buy me workbooks and they fuss about running off papers so that we can teach skills. If you find out where the money is going, please let the rest of us know.

By modest

December 13, 2005 04:32 PM | Link to this

People that get paid in the private sector are accountable for their work. Do teachers get report cards? No. They go on and on about how they dont get this and they dont get that. But at the same time. We have some of the lowest test scores of high schoolers in the country. You think you deserve a raise for that? What are you teaching them? It seems to me nothing. SO why should you get a raise?

By Sara

December 13, 2005 04:34 PM | Link to this

While I cannot speak for SET regarding that specific comment, I would venture to say that perhaps it was was not meant to mean that we are harsh, unforgiving or “unloving”. But the most loving thing you can do for a child in an educational environment is to set high standards and expect performance. Of course you have rewards for good performance, however when the performance is not up to the child’s potential, the child need to know that they are accountable for that. That may be less true for the smaller children, as they enter school, that falls more to the parents seeing that their child is basically learning how to make the most of their own educational experience. However as the child grows and has access to multiple resources,They have to learn to take control of their own lives. The goal here is to ultimately raise our children into strong, self sufficient, productive adults. Children who grow into adults with a “victim” mentality, are not strong, not self sufficient and not productive. They are the “vampires” of our society. Teach your children to look at every person, elder, educator, as an opportunity to learn something. Even the venemous teacher earlier described offer us something we can learn from, even if it is just how to deal with someone who’s opinion is far drastic than your own, or may not even have a basis in reality. It is a fact of life that we have to deal with these people and the effects of their negative views from time to time. But to learn how to deal with it with out letting it poison our own life is a extraordinary lesson.

By b. white

December 13, 2005 05:25 PM | Link to this

Wow! What did I start???? Just remember don’t play the race card if everything is not going your way. I have honestly been treated with more respect and friendly hellos at the Dekalb County School I teach in than at another predominantly white school in another close by county. Sometimes I have to realize that I am different because I am white - not special, not privileged, not hated. Maybe my values are different sometimes, but not always. My teaching sometimes doesn’t even begin to reach the levels of some of the black students here at this school. Unfortunately sometimes black kids just want to see how “bad” they can be to impress other kids. They do that by showing disrespect, by not following the rules, by not being interested in school work. But you know what so do white kids.

By Leronica

December 14, 2005 08:31 AM | Link to this

Children not only see color but the feel your spirit. This goes far beyond color. If a child has had a bad experience with a white teacher in the past, the next white teacher can be totally different. I have had bad & good teachers who were black and white. My favorite teachers throughout my life were black & white. Let’s not assume that our black children are so simple minded to get stuck on color. It’s what you bring to the table that makes a difference in the lives of all of our young people of every race! I am an African-American homeschooler.

By Leia

December 14, 2005 08:34 AM | Link to this

modest - I don’t know where you’re getting your information, but, teachers are evaluated up to 4 times per year! Yes, it is not called a “report card” but, the spirit is quite the same.

By gwinnettteacher

December 14, 2005 08:55 AM | Link to this

I agree with many of the posts to a certain extent. As an African American teacher and mother, I agree that students should respect their teachers and any other adult no matter what their race. However, teaching at a school that was once a predominantly white school and has dramatically changed into a predominantly black school in just three years, I’ve seen issues from both the teachers and the students. Some teachers don’t want to be here and if it weren’t for the three year rule, they wouldn’t be. They are intimidated. They automatically think that if a group of students hang with each other, they must be in a gang. They approach students in a disrespectful manner. I know this because I’ve experienced it first hand. I look pretty young for my age. I’ve been approached by teachers, thinking I’m a student, on several occasions and did not like the tone in which I were approached. Whether we like it or not, times have changed. These kids, black and white, are more outspoken. We as educators are going to have to adapt to that change. If a child is sleeping in your class, maybe it’s not the student, it is you. As a teacher, be more creative and have more child involvement. Ask yourself, “What can I do to be more effective”. As for the individual with the hypothetical student “LaKisha”, you have no right to talk. That statement alone wasn’t appropriate- why does a black student have to be named Lakisha.

By s

December 14, 2005 09:05 AM | Link to this

I have taught 13 years in predominantly black high schools, and haven’t had any problems that black teachers haven’t had either. I have far fewer problems than most teachers in my school, most of whom are black. In fact I haven’t had to send anyone to the office yet this year.

I offer a couple of observations based upon my experience:

1) high school kids of all backgrounds can read body language and can “read between the lines” of what you say and can tell if you like them or if you really want to be there. Some teachers, both black and white, only teach in these schools because it was the only job they could find, and they make that pretty clear to the students, or they only teach because it is a job. Invariably they have problems in their classroom. I guarantee you that if you really want to be there and you like the students (well, most of them) and you are knowledgable and organized, you will not have many problems. There are black teachers at my school who have no control over their classes or else a really rotten attitude and the students cannot stand them. This is not a race issue.

2) You HAVE to have a sense of humor and a thick skin to teach black high school kids. What I mean is that certain students are more likely to make critical or funny comments to you about your appearance, mannerisms, etc. This is less common in “white” schools. However, once you’ve established the rules for the year, you can have some fun with it. For instance, sometimes my bald spot and thinning hair will draw a silly remark from somebody. But just let that kid have a ton of hair weave or large ears or a funny shaped head, and you better believe I’ll have something to say! Rather than get mad, I get everyone to laugh and we move on.

3) If a student brings racial issues from home, you can virtually always win them over by being a good teacher; this includes showing concern for their education as well as their general well-being. This is true of most people regardless of race. It’s difficult to be mean to someone who shows that they care.

I love my job, and I enjoy the kids I teach. they aren’t perfect, and occasionally I have a student that I just don’t get along with. I should say that my school is more suburban than inner city and maybe that makes somewhat of a difference

By Leia

December 14, 2005 09:21 AM | Link to this

s - I agree with most of what you said, but, I take offense when you say that you have to have a sense of humor and a thick skin to teach black students.

What makes a black high school student any different from any other? They all tend to be self-centered, occasionally rude, and believe that your time-frame works around their lives?

I treat all of my students the exact same way - no special treatment for any student based on skin color.

By s

December 14, 2005 09:34 AM | Link to this

Leia,

I’m sorry you take offense at what I said, but based upon my own experience I find it to be true. Some black students are more likely to vocalize their opinions than what white kids typically do. This was not meant to degrade black students but rather to let white teachers know what to expect. We’ve had a number of white teachers quit on the spot or lose their temper because they were too sensitive to comments made by students. Sure, there are rude white students, I don’t mean to imply that black students are more rude, but they are more likely to speak their mind—in my experience. For me to say otherwise would be dishonest to myself.

I could easily point out something I don’t like about white schools—the students are much more cliquish than students at black schools. Just about anyone who has been at both majority white and majority black schools would observe this as well.

By Mark

December 14, 2005 09:44 AM | Link to this

My wife taught in Atlanta City Schools for several years. She eventually quit because she grew very tired of 1st and 2nd graders calling her a white b**ch and of parents accusing her of being a racist whenever an issue arose with a child.

Six and seven year old kids learn to say these things at home. These children look upon themselves first and foremost as black, and as individuals only as an afterthought if at all. This is taught at home AND it is reenforced in Atlanta City Schools every day.

Just take a walk through one of Atlanta’s elementary schools. You’ll see that race is the primary theme on bulletin boards in the classrooms and hallways.

It is no wonder that black adults have grown up to be so race centered. It is all that they have lived.

As an aside, time and time again my wife saw black teachers pinch, swat, and twist the ears of misbehaving students. White teachers would work hard to not even accidently brush up against a child or even put a comforting hand on a child’s shoulder out of fear of a parent storming in to the school asking why a white teacher has touched her child. The fear was real and not unfounded.

Even when a fight breaks out between students, white teachers run to get a black teacher to break it up simply because touching a black student could cause a firestorm.

It is sad for the teachers, but even more sad for the students.

By sokkerpunk

December 14, 2005 10:40 AM | Link to this

I absolutely love threads like this. It is rather amusing to me to see everyone’s opinion on race. Get over it already! Students should trust their teachers regardless of race. They should show teachers respect because they are in charge of the classroom…not the parents!

If parents want to do something, do something at the school district level…make sure you student’s curriculum is going to prepare them for college, if they plan on trying to go. That is what you need to be upset about. Entrance into college is getting more and more competitive. So, forget the trust, forget the race, everything…focus on the education you child needs to receive to ultimately get to where they want to be. So, one day when your kid has an opinion, they will have the credentials to be heard. Otherwise, they are just some whiny kid with a whiny parent!

By CM Punk

December 14, 2005 11:04 AM | Link to this

After reading this, and looking closely at my everyday experiences, some of the most racist and foul thoughts come from blacks who complain about racism.

By SET

December 14, 2005 11:04 AM | Link to this

I still find this thread interesting because of the values expressed by some of the writiers who would claim to care about the future of the black students.

I suppose it’s understood that the white students will be on the average just fine regardless.

Lakisa and LaShawn are not the same as the white students. All men are created equal before the law but nowhere else. The different ethnic groups, thanks to government interference from the excesses of the 60’s civil rights legislation, have radically different values. American Blacks since then have developed an artificial world where they don’t have to compete as equals. Read the financial papers. 11% of the Fortune 1000 has terminated or frozen their pension plans and the trend is accelerating. Affirmative Action is on the way out big time. NO One is going to put up with incompetence as the US falls to 3rd world living conditions and the middle class is destroyed. Things are going to be tougher for this new generation than ever.

The non-competitive artificial world shows up in the schools in it’s more extreme form because those who go to the public schools are able to continue the worst behaviors since they are protected from correction and dicipline. Simply put, bad behavior is tolerated and reinforced in the public schools and not in the private schools. In the Private Schools if there were not order the other families would withdraw their children and the school would collapse.

I have in-laws who are Africian (authentic - they came with green cards). I also have Vietnamese relatives by marriage. They are horrified by generally accepted American Black behavior. They don’t allow their children to associate in any way with mainstream american black culture. The africans have it worse because many people assume because they are black they think like American Blacks. So they have to daily prove to new people that they are educated, honest and professionally competent. They do not celebrate Kwanza.

My earlier comment that kids IN SCHOOL need less love and more boot to the rear stands. Love they can get from people who have to love them - relatives. When they are in school dealing with teachers and classmates they have better not be looking for love. They can have respect when they get an A in something. They get no respect for being alive.

Behaviorially all I require is that the Teachers do their job with the civility and dignity of Judge Judy. (Who I believe is very civil and very dignified.)

Too bad if the process of learning can be arduous and even painful. You can’t have things your way from the moment you walk into the classroom. You will be publicly corrected. You will learn or leave. You will keep your hands and everything else to yourself and speak to the business at hand when you are recognized.

Understand, what really bothers me is that these government schools are the last thing before the children (and it’s the American Blacks that need the most saving) go to the Army, Prison or Work or Welfare.

I don’t believe 60’s style Welfare (a product of white guilt) will survive as the whites lose their voting majority to Hispanics and other ethnic groups. The Military ruthlessly enforces IQ tests that bar most blacks at large from joining. That leaves Prison and Work as the 21st Century options.

So I don’t want love in the Schools. And I don’t remember a lot of respect either from my school days. I was busy and relatively happy because I was able to master the coursework - although I avoided math classes with the pre-meds at Univ of CA. School is not about these things. It’s about a learning how to learn and to survive in the US economy.

Is some of my position the difference between male posters here and female posters? What has love got to do with this.

Black kids from government schools on the average can’t read. They have LOTS of self esteem. Too much. That is a road to prison.

By Amazed (Independent Woman)

December 14, 2005 11:13 AM | Link to this

GwinnettTeacher,

Thanks for shedding light on the subject, from the inside. I’m glad you work in my school system.

Mark,

I wish your wife the best and I hope she did not leave with the impression, that all african american kids use bad language. She obviously worked in a tough school. Nevertheless, you can correct 1st and 2nd graders. Last, both whites and blacks are race/politically centered - this country has always been that way.

S - you are so correct and it truly takes thick skin, even for me. Keep up the good work, because you are my kind of teacher.

By GUESS WHO

December 14, 2005 11:17 AM | Link to this

In regards to By Yo’s comment. It is obvious that you are the one who was a loser from your comment. You need to be educated yourself before you can dish out advice or even make a comment.It is stupid individuals like you who give society a bad name. You could probably learn something from this the advice given here. So please, pay attention and learn something. You are to sorry for words.

By Beverly

December 14, 2005 11:21 AM | Link to this

I’ve only lived in Georgia for four years, but the thing that bothers me the most is that it public schools seem to have very low expectations of students. Before my daughter was accepted at a high acheiver’s magnet school, I would regularly buy her workbooks to supplement her schoolwork. What she got in school wasn’t enough to occupy her for more than five minutes. So, I’m with sokkerpunk, let’s get beyond the race thing and focus on educating these kids. We have to be tougher and expect more from them. I’m not advocating being mean, just tough enough to demand that they try harder. My ninth-grade geography teacher tossed my homework back at me on the second day of school with a look of complete disgust. He told the entire class the he would never accept shoddy work from any of us. He took the time to get to know each of us, our strenghts and our weaknesses. He inspired us to work hard and do our best. By the by, he was Jewish and we were a class of black and hispanic teens. It didn’t matter; we just knew that he cared about us.

By Beverly

December 14, 2005 11:23 AM | Link to this

Please pardon my poor spelling in my previous post.

By Beverly

December 14, 2005 11:30 AM | Link to this

SET, I work at a major university in Atlanta. I’ve seen a black male with two masters degrees offered $20,000 less for the same position offered to a white male with an extensive criminal record (for molesting children, I might add). So please spare me the Lakisa-LaShawn theories. Regardless of race, MANY of today’s kids leave school with minimum skills, not just black children. We have dumbed down America and it has nothing to do with affirmative action. There are lots of white kids vegging in front of video games and living in their parents’ basements into their 30s. The American culture as a whole is going to hell in a handbasket.

By Tay

December 14, 2005 11:31 AM | Link to this

I am an African American student who graduated from a mixed high school in Gwinnett County. I can say that my black teachers related more to me and provided me with more assistance during those years than a white teacher. Thats not to say that a white teacher couldnt do those things also, but it just wasnt present in the classes I took. Although reace should be an issue it really is. I think that some of the white teachers acted as if they were scared of us. But the opposite occured in college. My white teachers treated me better than the black ones, therefore once again regaining my respect. They helped more, were concerned about my studies in class as well as outside of class. I have had white teachers help me more thant the black ones. Graduation is the final stage of college for many and the white teachers served as a big guide towards getting there.

By jim dumond

December 14, 2005 11:38 AM | Link to this

The question begs to be asked. Black teacher / white students?

And black is capped because it starts a sentence.

By wake up

December 14, 2005 11:44 AM | Link to this

Hate is very strong. Trust is very fragile. While I do feel that children should be taught to be color-blind, it’s kind of hard when there are some people (of the majority) who do not want to embrace and celebrace their (the minority’s) culture. There are some posters (i.e. SWC) who have written repeatedly that they strongly disagree with the idea of multi-culturalism—particularly in the area of studying history—for the sake of “Americanism”. This poster even said in another post that African history is “pretty dismal”. (SWC, I am not trying to start a fight with you; I just wanted you, as well as others, to know that there are observant people out there.)

There would be no American history without Native Americans, African-Americans, Dutch-Americans, Hispanics, etc.

Also, Britt, you are mistaken when you say that [slavery] happend almost 2 centuries ago. Apparently, you’ve forgotten the images of water hoses, dogs, “Colored Only” signs, lynchings, assasinations, etc. that happened LESS than 60 years ago in this great country. What about the slow response to the Hurricane Katrina victims, who were mostly minority people, but there was a very rapid response to the tsunami victims?

It’s obvious that I’m black, and I am glad to say that I had great teachers—black and white. Two of my favorite teachers—1st grade and 5th grade homeroom—were white teachers and were very color-blind. I also had several white teachers who were not overtly discriminating, but were very subliminal in their treatment of their black students.

I am very blessed that I teach in a predominately black school where the white principal feels that it is important for the students to be exposed to their history and culture. This principal has demonstrated the epitome of true color-blindess, and can be trusted.

By Dan

December 14, 2005 11:50 AM | Link to this

People, people, people. Doesn’t anyone listen to Cynthia Tucker, Al Franken, Jesse Jackson, Cynthia McKinney, or anyone at CNN? If a black student cannot learn, it is not the fault of the teacher…it is the fault of the racist federal government and George Bush in particular. Get a clue. People cannot help themselves, that’s the job of government.

By Amazed (Independent Woman)

December 14, 2005 11:56 AM | Link to this

Jim Dumond - I will answer that question. Black teacher/white student?

I have several black teachers and administrators in my family and we talk about their experiences on a regular basis. The problem lies more with the parents; not believing the teacher has the best education.

Many of the stories have to do with students being moved to a white teachers classroom or thinking the teacher spends too much time addressing what they believe are “only� African American topics. In some instances, the students have felt as if the teacher sided with the black students when a fight has occurred. They have addressed being called the “N� word as a term of disrespect. I also had a relative who was spit on by a student, because her husband, my uncle is black.

I could spend all day trying to promote tolerance of others, but instead; I try to pass it along to my child.

By jim dumond

December 14, 2005 11:59 AM | Link to this

Thanks,

You documented my thinking.

It’s way past time for people to get over the race thing and just accept each other. Embracing our differences.

By Dan

December 14, 2005 12:14 PM | Link to this

Wake up,

You are confusing your perception of ongoing bigotry, prejudice, and racism with historical fact. Slavery did indeed end with the War of Northern Aggression. The lynchings, assinations, etc. you refer to have nothing to do with slavery and everything to do with hate. Unfortunately, these problems will continue to exist for all time and will be accentuated by the liberal media because that is what sells. It is good that intelligent people such as you are willing to stand up for what is right.

By TRU

December 14, 2005 12:26 PM | Link to this

As an African American Mother, I say - just teach to the best of your abilities. Your race/the childrens’ race should not even be considered. Just the fact the they are STUDENTS.. Remember - Teaching is not just a JOB. It takes special people to Teach..

By trainman

December 14, 2005 12:28 PM | Link to this

What does it say about us as a people that we still have to have a discussion about race relations?

By jim dumond

December 14, 2005 12:28 PM | Link to this

Amen mama,

Lets all just move forward, not forgetting the past but learning from it.

By jim dumond

December 14, 2005 12:30 PM | Link to this

@trainman

Says we need to do a bit of soul searching don’t it?

By SET

December 14, 2005 12:46 PM | Link to this

Beverly,

I’m in California and have been here my whole life. I’ve been to the east coast on occcasion. I went through Catholic and public schools here.

I suspect we have relatively few black males with advanced degrees compared to our population of maybe 33 million…

I’m sure that the numbers and ratios will go down sharply now due to the Brave New World we are in - Extraordilarily expensive housing and education costs here combined with rotten to the core urban public schools and the US Gov’t sponsored colonization of this state by Mexico.

When I was at University of CA the fees were $600 a year. Between that and the State University system anyone with an IQ of 115 who tried could have a degree in something. The Urban High Schools prepared people for UC entrance. All this has been destroyed. Things are so different now. Forget the schools, we are now facing the economic collapse of the county hospital systems. My white former classmates are buying property and moving to retreat states such as Oregon.

I agree with you about the culture being trashed. I have been a teacher in a suburban high school - briefly, 25 years ago.

I firmly believe that the (public school) black students now are being allowed to hip-hop dance to their doom because no one wants to fight with them or their mothers. The bunch here by and large don’t have fathers. The Great Society took care of that.

I see them going to and from the state prisons. I’m a lawyer.

So occasionally I read the education blog and complain. And I wish that things could have been different. I really believe the damage that has been done is too great to reverse in the time we have. I think something very big and bad is coming. The economic, demographic and political projections for the future even in my remaining lifetime are terrible. Much of this deterioration has happened slowly but the pace of change (for the worse) seems to be accelerating. Although most people face lower standards of living, the lower-class blacks will be largly dead or in prison.

Somebody said something once about when America gets a cold - Blacks get the flu??

By wake up

December 14, 2005 12:48 PM | Link to this

Dan,

I apologize. I reread my post, and I could see very well how I was misunderstood. I incorrectly put the word “slavery” in brackets. What I meant was that although slavery was abolished nearly 2 centuries ago, that wasn’t the end of the suffering of black Americans in this country (i.e. the lynchings and so on) It seemed to me that “Britt” was trying to say (and I could be wrong)that what happened in the past was so long ago that it shouldn’t mean much today.

I can’t forget because I, personally, experienced racism during my formative years in the 1980’s. However, I don’t harbor or teach resentment towards all whites or any other races because I know that there are good AND bad people in all races. Just as I have experienced racism at the hands of a few whites, I also experienced care, generosity, and pure love at the hands of some whites.

By jim dumond

December 14, 2005 12:51 PM | Link to this

Close enough,

Joseph Lowery, the former president of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference, once said, “When America gets a cold, black America gets pneumonia

By Beverly

December 14, 2005 12:56 PM | Link to this

SET, point well taken. I’m afraid I agree; in this system of things we can’t expect things to get better without major changes. Cuba wiped out illiteracy with Communism. I certainly don’t want that, but I would love to know how we can raise standards nationwide. Any suggestions?

By jim dumond

December 14, 2005 12:58 PM | Link to this

This one should stir the dead.

“how we can raise standards nationwide. Any suggestions?”

Privitazation?

By high school teacher

December 14, 2005 01:12 PM | Link to this

Unfortunately, if we raise standards nationwide, we will leave children behind…MANY children behind. We have become too much of an instant gratification, entitlement society. Our current youth in public schools don’t know how to work to earn much of anything. I agree with SET; the damage is too severe to fix at this point. Obviously, I’m not hopeless; I do teach our future! I do think that something needs to change, and soon.

By Becky2

December 14, 2005 01:16 PM | Link to this

How can we raise standards? Get rid of some of the wimpy administrators who bow down to parents who fuss and want their children promoted even if they fail. Yes, we will go through a couple of years with students failing but they need to learn a lesson. So many of them depend on mama do get what they want no matter what they do.

By SET

December 14, 2005 01:26 PM | Link to this

“how we can raise standards nationwide. Any suggestions?�

I’ve said it in several blogs on the education blog here.

Segregation. (And I am deliberately using this word instead of calling it something else)

Sort the students coming into a school system and place the student into a school where they have a reasonable expectation to meet the program there. Don’t allow anyone into a normal high school 9th grade that’s reading at 7th grade level or below. (or maybe 8th) If the slow group refuse vocational training develop other programs for them. You’d be surprised at the improvement you can obtain when students face removal from their previous peer group.

Diagnose Anti-Social Personalty Disorders such as juvenile conduct disorders and other mental issues when they present themselves. Get those students into schools and programs for them and keep them physically away from normal kids unless they can qualify later for limited contact.

Bring back vocational education and feed those students through vocational high schools to the junior college vocation programs. Do not mix them with the University bound unless they ask for it and understand they will be held to the University Prep requirements.

All the schools could publish and impose standards of performance and behavior and those who fail would have to transfer out before they are expelled. Just like a real school!

Doing this is not going to get “diversity” which we don’t need anyway. The races are different with different performances in different areas. If somebody wants a program that doesn’t come easy to them they will have to work at it and they will have to measure up or face removal.

I’d bet that discontinuing the forcing of everybody into the same box would result in a decrease of tensions. Families and students would be able to make their choice and work for it rather than going “to school” and trying to fight the world to get things their way.

I’ve read that at least one Calif. School District is imposing new entrance requirements for High School enrollment that should disenroll a good slice of incoming students from the schools they want to protect.

I make no statements about the racial makeup of the resulting schools and I think that would change from time to time as various people became more or less ambitious. The system would be colorblind but would have greatly disparate results for the time being. It would make everybody a lot happier, rich poor black and white, etc.

And I think the teachers would have better working conditions.

By Amazed (Independent Woman)

December 14, 2005 01:37 PM | Link to this

This problem could have been corrected a long time ago.

(1.) Spend more time teaching at the elementary school level, because that is where the damage starts. A child can learn their alphabets and how to read at 5 years old and still be successful.

(2.) Extend the hours of Elementary School - by having afterhours where tutoring occurs in small group sessions. This could give teachers the opportunity to earn extra income. My motto: if they learn how to Read, Write and apply math appropriately while in elementary school - they will be successful in middle and highschool. If they suffer in elementary school, they suffer and die in middle and highschool.

(3.) Allow students to complete homework, which could be labled “Practice Work” - at school, where they can get the extra help - not available at home. In my opinion - school is about the children. I do not care if you never see their parents. Please note: I said my opinion.

(4.) Stop teaching for testing purposes only. I’m referring to the policy, not teachers.

(5.) Reduce the size of the classes or hire more paraprofessionals in elementary schools, especially at K - 5th grade.

This can be obtained nationally.

By SET

December 14, 2005 01:55 PM | Link to this

Amazed -

I think we’ve disagreed before but you have it right on the above post but for #5.

It would be nice to have smaller classes and more staff but the economics of California for example rule this out. Because of the invasion of this state by Mexico we have large numbers of children who may or may not have been born here who arrive at school not speaking english. Check the stats of the Los Angeles School District.

There is no money to handle the 3rd world children added to the native children. We can’t raise the money either. This is also why the County Hospitals are starting to close or be threatened with closure. In my town the City has slapped a 14% tax on all utilities including every cell phone bill with an address in this city. This tax has been cited when business that are utility intensive relocate or refuse to move here.

We are running out of ways to increase local taxes in CA but they keep trying. Nationally the AMT is a larger threat to CA than to other states because it will neutralize the value of our higher Mortgage Interest deductions and related property taxes.

The solutions we find to the school problems must be low cost. Above all the public schools must go to 8am-5pm hours so that every adult in the family can go to work. There is no one to tend to the children in the afternoon. Any spare funding needs to go to aftercare/extended hour programs.

Smart money and their businesses are already moving out of California or preparing to do so. Operations here are being reduced and removed from the expensive coastal areas to the cheaper interior along the interstates for quick access to Nevada, Oregon and Arizona.

Our urban (largely coastal) schools are under fantastic economic stress.

By Amazed (Independent Woman)

December 14, 2005 02:01 PM | Link to this

SET: I usually ignore you.

However, to off set the cost of paraprofessionals, we could use students who are currently working toward a teaching certificate or college students with 3.0 or better in their Junior year and above.

We could call it a national training program for teachers. I would go as far as having the students who become paraprofessionals get credit at the university.

Do you think that would work in your beloved California?

By Professor

December 14, 2005 02:02 PM | Link to this

As a college professor, I’ve found that by the time that these kids get to me, they’re minds and opinions of others have already been formed. But I also take it upon myself and accept it as my responsiblity to break as many of these stereotypes as possible. At the beginning of each class, I always start out with telling the class a story about a day in my life or what happened during my week. My goal was to tell them a little about me, letting them get to know who I am. From there, I would leave it open for them to tell me things about them. I was opening myself up to them showing that I’m just like them. I let each of them know the amount of education that I have, the jobs that I have held and the things that I still plan on doing, and in the end, I ask the question, “What does all of this mean?” My response is nothing. We’re all in the same boat regardless of your background, and that is, we’re all sitting in this very same classroom together. I have yet to have a student that I did not gain there trust doing this. Many of my students are of varying ethnic backgrounds, but what I’ve found is that we all face many of the same challenges. We’re all judgemental of each other and use many things as a crutch to explain our shortcomings. Embrace the fact that you are black. Embrace the fact that you are what. Embrace the fact that you are a man, woman, married, single, divorced, Baptist, Methodist, Catholic, have blonde hair, green eyes, a mustache or a mole and share your life and experience with others. Stop putting up these borders and boundaries that separate us. The key word here is EDUCATION. This education should eliminate the ignorance that surrounds many of today’s stereotypes. Let’s stop asking why can’t someone bend, share and adhere to us and start reaching back out to others.

By DB

December 14, 2005 02:12 PM | Link to this

Jim: Privatization is not the only answer. Things were much better in the past, even with government schools. It would be cool to , say, give each kid a $10,000 per year “get education free card” to be able to spend it at whatever school they please(or not spend it at all). Absolutely no money would go to schools themselves, just the students(if they choose to seek education). Then all schools would be “private” and have all the expectations that wouldn’t be mandated by the government.

That’s an unrealistic goal. We simply need to pull in the reigns and bring society back toward self-accountability. You know, like when you tell a teacher to F-off, you get kicked out of school. Or if you fail a grade, you get punished or kicked out instead of 10 different “interventions” made to “drag” unwilling kids into eventual failure anyway. Now, everything you do in education has to appease the majority and take away the one important thing, accomplishment. Unfortunately, because of this, the majority are lazy idiots who have no business contributing to such decisions. Right here, right now…. That’s what everybody worries about these days. Struggle is good. Most everyone wants to deny real life struggle to our kids. It’s terrible.

Set: They don’t want to fight the kids and the moms because of the fear of lawsuits from the 2% of gutless, idiot parents who think the world owes them and their children everything and think you actually help kids by giving in to their immature outlook of life. That’s the crux of the issue. No school can take a stand and disagree and stick to their convictions without fear of being sued, losing the God-awful NCLB funding, or accreditation/face. Judging from your thoughtful posts, I’m assuming you’re not one of those greedy lawyers that turns the education system upside down. I at least hope not.

All of us that think this way need to make the change. I do sense the start of a revolution. Demand that disruptive kids get separated from those that want to learn(and left out to dry if necessary). Make them deal with hardship now instead of having them go to prison or the ghetto later on in life. Push changes in education law that will actually make students accountable for their actions, one in particular stating that free education is a revokable privilege. The pendulum has swung too far in the wrong direction.

I’m a white teacher. I don’t care what color my students are, nor do I care to get political about. It’s quite simple. They will fail if they don’t do their work, and I will quit before I drop my expectations to appease a bunch of pushover parents. That’s the most important thing to learn in life. In fact, sometimes there’s nothing better for a kid than a BIG FAT F!

Public education has become nothing more than a bubble sheltering kids from real life. And I would argue that going to most public schools today actually hurts more than it helps.

By Beverly

December 14, 2005 02:20 PM | Link to this

DB: Preach, brother, preach!

By Professor

December 14, 2005 02:28 PM | Link to this

DB: Very well put. We need more teachers in the education system that think like that.

By SET

December 14, 2005 02:31 PM | Link to this

Amazed…

“My Beloved California”? I may have been born here but I will leave California and retire elsewhere. Some of my siblings have either relocated to the Pacific Northwest or bought property in Nevada already.

The California I grew up with no longer exists and will be completely gone when I retire.

When I was in high school I had Physics and Biology classes taught by UC Berkeley Master’s program grad students. It was a summer school put on by UC Bereley every summer and staffed by grad students. There was a (grad student)teacher for every 12 (10th or 11th grade) students. No other staff in the classroom. We worked all day on a single subject 5 days a week.

In Biology we had an Asian Woman and a Black Woman (bet they both went on to Med School) teaching together.

When it was dissect the frog time they brought in a large box of live frogs and closed the doors. They dumped the frogs on the floor which all ran around the room. We were all sitting silently in our seats like we’d been taught. The teachers looked up and said “You kids have X minutes to produce a frog lungs, heart and liver on a tray.” Actually I think the list of organs was much longer and they had to be lined up in order also.

We barely managed to catch a frog and get the dissection done by the deadline. The frogs didn’t co-operate at all.

Later when I went back to my regular school in September no one had ever been heard of students (or frogs) being treated so harshly.

I’ll never forget biology class or those teachers. Never saw the like of them again. The never gave us a break and never thought for a moment that we couldn’t take anything they could dish out. Anyone who missed 3 days even for sickness was dropped from the program because it was a concentrated program - a year of credit in summer session. Biology one summer and Physics the next.

Some other blog I’ll tell what happened when we all were issued microscopes and handed samples of bacterial diseases to mount on slides. I remember African Sleeping Sickness as an interesting and leathal specimen. We had to draw the cell structures. They did say if that’d been live bacteria we’d all be dead. But we got that done also.

I agree that grad students can be a major asset to high schools. There would be administrative costs, with the fingerprinting and backgrounding that’s required now.

By DB

December 14, 2005 02:32 PM | Link to this

SET: How about setting real consequences for companies that hire illegals, so there isn’t a job waiting for every illegal(I’m assuming that’s what you’re referring to)? How about teaching in English instead of having ESL, which are costly programs that schools use to try to meet the unrealistic expectations of the establishment that funds schools? Without all this “bilingual” catering, people would feel the need to learn English. My legal friend from Mexico is a perfect example. She hates nothing more than the fact that people come here and refuse to learn English. This person had a 3.6 in an Ivy League school without knowing English. And you bet she learned it within a year. How about kicking unruly kids out of school and letting them get started on real, harsh life so the kids that want to learn can? Schools waste a lot of money on “coddling” programs and all the bureaucratic bull. It amazes me how private schools can spend half as much, in many cases, and have twice the facilities, opportunity, and learning. One small step would be making people pay for their own books(or at least having poor kids work for them or be able to borrow for them). It disgusts me how kids treat schoolbooks without a thought as to those that actually pay for them.

By DB

December 14, 2005 02:40 PM | Link to this

Equal opportunity for all. That should mean every kid(black, white, olive, etc.) has the opportunity to go to school where everyone there is there to learn and only to learn, and you have to work your [expletive] off to make the grade. You have to act a certain way, and you have to dress a certain way, and you have to respect others, especially those in charge. I guess that would be too much LIKE REAL LIFE!

By Beverly

December 14, 2005 02:40 PM | Link to this

I don’t think kicking kids out will solve the problem. Matter of fact, I think it will create even bigger problems. What’s an uneducated kid with lots of time on his or her hands going to do? Get into trouble, more than likely. On the language tip: I came to this country from Honduras when I was 6 and didn’t speak a word of English. There was no bilingual education and I had to learn the hard way. The worst part was not knowing how to say bathroom in English on the first day of school and wetting myself. Also, some of the other kids could be merciless and would torment me and my brother for having strange accents. The good part was that I was forced to learn English quickly. My parents spoke English at home and required us to do the same. I think ESL programs are the worst because, instead of being a stepping stone to regular classrooms, students are allowed to languish with very little learning. Bilingual classes are waste of time. I love that I speak two languages, but I also love the fact that I speak, read and write English like a native.

By DB

December 14, 2005 02:43 PM | Link to this

Professor:

And we need more parents who think like that. That’s the ultimate goal if you ask me.

By DB

December 14, 2005 02:48 PM | Link to this

Beverly: They will go work on a roof with Dad. And then a year later, they might realize they want to learn English and go back to school. If not, at least they will be working(especially if it gets tougher to get public assistance). This argument that our public school system makes people less likely to resort to a life of crime is so wrong. In fact, most criminal activity starts in schools. Does society crumble every summer when kids are out of school?

By DB

December 14, 2005 02:49 PM | Link to this

Beverly: I’m quite positive you turned out to be a fine person and a productive member of society. Correct me if I’m wrong.

By DB

December 14, 2005 02:51 PM | Link to this

Beverly: My bad. I thought you were supporting ESL. You just disagreed on kicking kids out.

By Professor

December 14, 2005 02:53 PM | Link to this

I’ve really enjoyed reading all of the postings and I feel that everyone has very valid points, but ultimately everything starts at home. Children are not born with distrust of certain individuals. They are not born lazy, rude, disrespectful and any other negative stigma that you can come up with. These are all learned behaviors. As as a parent myself, I take full responsibility in EDUCATING

By DB

December 14, 2005 02:53 PM | Link to this

No, Beverly, you write better than most Natives.

By SET

December 14, 2005 02:58 PM | Link to this

Kicking kids out of a program that they don’t belong in is not a disservice. As one door closes another opens.

Kids who are mismatched with their schools are far more prone to act out. If the kid can’t fit in there are other schools/programs to try. This also includes roofing, juvenile hall, reform school, mental health day programs, early college admission, homeschool, McDonalds, Internet Classes at Jr. College, the list is endless.

By Professor

December 14, 2005 02:59 PM | Link to this

I’ve really enjoyed reading all of the postings and I feel that everyone has very valid points, but ultimately everything starts at home. Children are not born with distrust of certain individuals. They are not born lazy, rude, disrespectful and any other negative stigma that you can come up with. These are all learned behaviors. As as a parent myself, I take full responsibility in EDUCATING children. I can’t shelter and block them from seeing certain aspects of the world, but I can surely educate them on what to expect. It all starts at home. If your child is one of those disruptive, uncontrollable children, guess what? You raised him to be that way. If your child is untrusting of someone because of the complexion and texture of their skin, guess what? You raised him to be that way. It’s time that we take back ownership and responsibility as to the reason that our children is the way that they are. WE RAISED THEM TO BE THAT WAY! I stopped allowing the government to tell me how I can or can not raise my child or how I should or should not raise my child. If I have to go out in the front yard and have a fist fight with my children and go to jail for it everyday to prevent them from turning to a life of crime or prevent failure, then so be it. It’s not discipline, but parenting. Too many of us are not concerned with what our children are doing or being an active part in their lives. I sit down with my children and we study together. We read together, we eat together, we play together and above all else, we pray together. It’s not the responsibility of the teacher to teach your child discipline or manners. It’s just our goal to show them the potential and opportunities that await them. We maked differences in your children’s lives. Now when are you going to step up and do the same?

By Amazed (Independent Woman)

December 14, 2005 03:01 PM | Link to this

When I think of teachers – I usually like to compare them to the teacher on “Little House on the Prairie� or one of the old western programs. You know the show, where the teacher comes to town and he/she would live with one of the families in the community. They did not earn much money, but they were what I would call “Good People�. The kind of person you would give anything too, if they were in need.

I’m lucky, because my daughter’s teachers have all been, “Good People� – if any of them had asked me for money, my car, a place to live, etc… I would gladly give it to them. They are all the kind of people you would expect to see in an elementary school: (1.) Always smiling (2.) Extremely enthusiastic (3.) You know why they chose teaching - it shows with their personality (4.) They know how to communicate with children (5.) Unselfish attitudes (6.) They fit my Little House on the Prairie Mold – always treating the children fairly. The children at this school exceed, but they do have more challenges each year. I always respond to every email for help (needed supplies, money, field trips, parties, etc…)

However, if I saw the kinds of attitudes at my school that I read on this blog; I would never volunteer or do anything for the teachers at my school. I have wondered if some of you are truly teachers. I have hoped that some of you did not teach in my school system.

I hope that this is just a place that is used to “vent� your frustrations and that your attitudes do not reflect in your teaching.

Last, I’ll wait for the next topic. Have a great day!

By DB

December 14, 2005 03:09 PM | Link to this

Oh, as for kids getting kicked out(hardly ever immigrants), I was talking more about natives. They may do several things. They will play video games and harass their parents until they get kicked out or turn 35, they will get into trouble with the law, or they will go to work(least likely but best). Now, the real question is this. What do most kids do after they graduate high school?

Here’s my prediction, when schools say “Our way or you’re on your own.”, things would change for the better. School expectations will rise. GED requirements will also rise making a GED tougher to earn. Society will once again begin to respect schools and respect a high school diploma. And the majority will regain civility and work ethic. Work ethic and self-control will be virtues. Employers will have higher expectations. People will want to go to school and abide by the rules. Look at any 3rd world country. Kids would love to be able to go to a good school because they know they’re chances for success are minimal without it.

Everyone should have the opportunity make things better for themselves. Why should be give money to the poor? They can’t handle money, or most just learn to abuse it. Give them food and shelter for a limited time and teach them how to better themselves when they’re listening.

This occured when my parents where in school, and most everyone could fend for themselves back then, and most everyone was respectful.

By DB

December 14, 2005 03:11 PM | Link to this

I agree with SET. I simply don’t believe kicking kids out will make things any worse.

By Dan

December 14, 2005 03:11 PM | Link to this

Professor I whole heartedly disagree, good behavior is learned. Once a child learns to detect differences they are immediately distrustful until they learn which differences matter and which do not. This is a simple defense mechanism. Young children until they are taught there are consequensces will steal a toy or a piece of candy from any other child smaller or slower than they. As far as lazy, how do you get a child to hold their own bottle. By not holding it for them once you know they have the strength and dexterity to do so themselves, otherwise they will happily be lazy and let you do it for them. the same with potty training. They need to be taught that while being lazy mean and distrustful is the easy way, they will eventually cause problems in a group based society. The fact is it is good behavior that is learned, which is why children with uninvolved parents are more likely to have behavioral and social issues. Yes some bad habits are indeed learned. But all good habits are.

By SET

December 14, 2005 03:11 PM | Link to this

Professor:

Good students from Good families can take care of themselves. The problem children I worry about are the products of bad families with bad mothers and a sperm donor of a father.

Our government school program has to manage the bad students from bad families. The others can self serve. The grade schools I was in could develop something from nearly every troubled child.

But then I had Irish Nuns till 5th grade when I transfered to an integrated Irish/Italian Catholic school and had to survive Italian Nuns also. Then I transferred to public school with Jewish and WASP students who were always out for number 1. Eventually we found a basis for friendship and it wasn’t based on diversity. I had a Camaro for one thing.

It was all nervewracking but I managed to stay in school through a law degree.

I wonder if the secret to the success of my primary schools is that they were free to disrespect us, make us unhappy, and backhand us out of our desk on rare occasions when you did something violent in the teacher’s presence (like stick someone with a pencil). I never had a primary school teacher or my parents express concern for my self esteem. Was I a deprived child? Did I or my similarly treated multiracial classmates even have an esteem problem to begin with?

By DB

December 14, 2005 03:24 PM | Link to this

Amazed: If you’re referring to me, I might add that I’m one of the most enthusiastic, caring teachers you could ask for. I put my life into teaching, and I enjoy it. I care about kids, and that’s why I think bad kids and bad parents need to learn the hard way as soon as possible. If a kid is willing to learn, I will go beyond the call of duty to help them out in class or in life. And that’s why giving a kid an F if they deserve it is the best thing you can do for a kid. In fact, I once had a kid come back and thank me for him an F(when his parents where pressuring me to change it). He said that changed his life for the better because he realized he is responsible for his shortcomings. I’ve seen all angles from public school to private school. It’s all the same. Kids are kids, and they need to be guided in the right direction, which sometimes takes serious consequences.

Professor: Yes, it is all about parenting, plain and simple. And there isn’t a whole lot of that going on anymore.

By DB

December 14, 2005 03:27 PM | Link to this

Dan: It sounds to me like you agree with Professor.

By SET

December 14, 2005 03:28 PM | Link to this

DB:

You don’t understand. The federal government is deliberately replacing the people of the United states with new people. That’s why there will be no effective penalties on hiring illegals or any other disincentive for illegals. They are supposed to be here and they are here on the invitation of the Democratic and the Republican parties and the Government of Mexico.

The United States Congress and Executive Branch has decided to “fire” the people of the US and replace them with a new underclass. There must be money in it for them because that’s the only reason these people do ANYTHING.

Periodically you will see “Amnestys” or Citizenship Drives” or other such to further legitimatize the 3rd world workers. Have no illusions as to what this means to the people that were here 40 years ago. They and their children will see a collapsing standard of living and a police state to boot. Can we say 3rd world standards?

And this from a nation that won WWII, built the Hoover Dam, and landed people on the Moon, invented the modern Computer and invented franchise restaurants and the entire credit card industry.

Brave New World!!

Very soon we won’t be talking about “Black or White”.

Maybe a 3rd political party will form to try to stop this. I’m pessimestic. But odds are we will see the rise of a charismatic type, possibly an entertainer, who will rise to power on a populist platform. I think it happened in Germany once but he was a housepainter. Huey Long tried in the US but he had a problem with his love life that ended in gunfire. His brother Earl tried to rise (to the Senate)and wound up committed to the state mental hospital among other things.

We live in interesting times.

By Professor

December 14, 2005 03:29 PM | Link to this

My main point is that much of our children’s behavior starts at home. Many people try to displace the blame on television, rap music, etc. Do not take the responsibility anymore to teach our children the difference between right and wrong, good and bad? Again, we can’t shield these children from everything and everybody, but aren’t most bad children a product of a bad household? This does not always hold true, but in most cases, isn’t this the cause of it. Why do we not look at the root causes, but always focus on the end result? I can’t tell any individual that their way of teaching their children is a bad way, but I’m only stating, start taking responsibility for it. Schools are not meant as a means of taking on the responsibility of parenting and raising children. Teachers beg parents to get involved all of the time. I agree, you can teach a child good and bad behavior, but who are they exposed to first?

By EC

December 14, 2005 03:32 PM | Link to this

Just a comment….. My family and I moved from Florida a few years ago….We lived in a very nice, very diverse community. We had friends of all races, and had dinner often with our Chinese neighbors. My children did not anything about “race” until we move to Georgia. My son was constantly getting teased because he could relate and have friends of all races. We don’t teach our children about race, after conducting my research, all “Jim Crow” states have a big emphasis on race. I don’t like it here for that reason……racism…to “black\white”.

By DB

December 14, 2005 03:42 PM | Link to this

SET: Wow! It’s all about economics. The government officials are practically owned by the corporations that benefit from cheap immigrant labor because they can pay low wages and deny all benefits(and coerce them also). And it’s creating a “subservient” majority. It’s all a result unregulated capitalism and suburbia. There will be a big problem in the future. Materialism will die when no one has money to buy anything. I put the blame just as much to my ex-employees(most Americans) who think they deserve $10 or more an hour to work at a drive-thru or any other unskilled job. That is going to come to a serious halt, and Americans will once again accept menial jobs. Expectations in education is one way to accelerate things back to reality where you have to work hard for your money. Something has to give. I don’t think we’ll go to 3rd world status. I think we’ll just return to the Hoover Damn days and have a revolution of productivity(toward sustainability). We’ve been living too easily for too long.

By DB

December 14, 2005 03:44 PM | Link to this

Oops! I meant “Hoover Dam” instead of the other. My regards to Freud.

By SET

December 14, 2005 03:48 PM | Link to this

Amazed:

I think you have connected “Good People” with a maternal role. Smiling, “nice” etc.

I guess my best teachers were not so maternal.

I think Judge Judy (for example) is a great teacher. Yet I hear others complain that she’s not “nice”. She has written books, and she educates her audience and the fools in front of her about life and the law in time for commercial breaks. You don’t forget her lessons.

I don’t believe that “nice” teaches very well. That’s just my experience. The “nice” teachers are roadkill around here.

The teachers I will always remember from 1st grade through grad school were the ones (black, white or whatever) who were challenging. When you ever got approval from them - which was not frequent - you knew you’d arrived. Being noticed and acknowledged in a crowded room (They had large clases) was in itself rewarding.

By DB

December 14, 2005 03:50 PM | Link to this

EC: I understand. I feel the same way. My one kid goes to private school where everyone respects each other regardless of race. My other kid is teased and learned about black/white in the public school. My kids are biracial. The southeast still has it’s issues with race, but things are getting better. I was quite surprised when I moved here.

Although I find this topic quite beaten, I’m in it for the last few comments. You guys are intriguing.

By DB

December 14, 2005 03:52 PM | Link to this

SET: Can’t agree more. There’s a time to be nice(most the time), but there’s a time to be serious, too.

By Dan

December 14, 2005 04:04 PM | Link to this

Yes I agree it all starts at home My point is just that people always like to decieve themselves into thinking man is inherently good and unless lured into evil they will remain so. But to address problems you need to understand root cause, and in my opinon and I think anyone who observes a child grow up and examines it honestly and objectivly can clearly see that left to their own devices children are naturally what society views as distrustful mean and lazy. In reality we are all ultimately selfish, we need to learn that sometimes by giving you get back the same or more. But this is a lesson that needs to be nurtured from before a child is speaking. If being “good” was the natural state of things it would be easy wouldn’t it. Whats also easy is blaming someone else for your shortcomings. As long as the estalishment believes removing bad influence is the primary key to success they will fail, whats needed is instilling good behavior and that is a lesson not always best taught by positive reinforcement. No matter how many times you tell a kid not to touch the stove they will never really learn until they burn themselves

By HB

December 14, 2005 04:06 PM | Link to this

I’ve had the reverse experience of EC and wholeheartedly agree. I grew up in Georgia and found that race was constantly on everyone’s mind. I’ve lived in the Northeast and Mid-Atlantic for the past 5 years and find that people here just aren’t so preoccupied with race. Now, I’m amazed when I go home how often black/white comes up in conversations and how my white relatives always seem to feel the need to defend themselves against attacks from minority groups. I have yet to figure out what exactly they are always defending themselves against, but apparently, large groups of people are plotting to ruin their nice suburban lives.

It’s like the whole “Christmas” vs “Holiday” thing. I understand people not wanting to be told they can’t say “Merry Christmas”, but isn’t it a little silly to think that not using “Christmas” in store ads is part of a movement to erase religion from American life. These insecurities have got to end. People of the world, relax!

By Stephanie Scoggin

December 14, 2005 04:12 PM | Link to this

Black, White, Hispanic, Asian, Martian…just love them.

By EC

December 14, 2005 04:25 PM | Link to this

HB My feelings exactly………..

By SWC

December 14, 2005 04:29 PM | Link to this

DB - What “coddling programs” are you referring too? Also, how are kids going to get a job working on a roof with dad if there is no dad?

Leia - It is not skin color, but the class differences and cultural differences. Surely you cannot really believe that we are all the same in that respect.

WakeUp - Sorry, but I am not going to embrace black culture, no way, now how. Kwanzaa? Marxist propaganda dreamed up by a convicted rapist. Modern black music? No gangsta rap for me. (My favorite musicians are people like Billie Holiday, Ella Fitzgerald, John Lee Hooker, Ray Charles, et cetera, but nowadays much of what is produced is thoroughly disgusting, some of it bordering on pornography and scum like Russell Simmons who produce this garbage pretend to “care” and absolve themselves of responsibility by claiming that “it is a relection of life in the ghetto”). Doo rags? Sorry, but no. Swatting kids on the head as discipline? Nope, not for me.

Now if you’d like to know what I meant by the history of Africa being pretty dismal - here are just a few highlights: Idi Amin, Robert Mugabwe and Zimbabwe, Rwanda, blacks selling blacks to slavery (it was not just a white thing you know), modern slavery in The Sudan, corruption, poverty, death, famine. Rwanda is an incredibly beautiful country, but what happened there is just indescribable - pure savagery and evil. And America’s “first black President” did absolutely nothing to stop it yet they sure love him in Harlem. “Black History” professors seem to spend all their time telling their students how hateful America is, but I doubt they spend much time exploring the atrocities that still occur on the African continent. Tell me what I should be “embracing”?

As far as New Orleans goes, that state has been run by the Democrat party forever. They have a history of incredible corruption. Congress gave Lousisana funds to fix the levees, but the levee board chose to build a casino, an airport, and other things that had nothing to do with levee building. In fact, they never even discussed the levees. Governor Blanco did nothing. Mayor Nagin did nothing. They did not follow their own evacuation plans. This was a huge disaster of unprecedented proportions (which they had been warned about for years). Was the response perfect? Of course not. But, you cannot blame the Federal government for the failures that originated in the State of Louisiana.

What I see of modern black culture is destroying black children, and feeds hatred, resentment, laziness, illegitimacy, welfare dependency, all sorts of destructive influences. So I am not about to embrace this culture. Sorry. I embrace American culture, and that includes the contributions of blacks, but hating America while loving Africa is sure path to failure.

I encourage schools and teachers to welcome black students, to try to revitalize and redirect the lives of those at risk, to teach them to learn trust, and hard work, discipline and perseverance. All those who say that it is the parents responsibility assume that there are parents, or parents who care. We need to provide as loving and comfortable environment as possible to all our children, but remain especially mindful of those who don’t have these basic human needs at home. Too many bloggers here have an appallingly negative attitude about today’s kids, an attitude that lacks hope, and only wants to punish. Yes, without question, disruptive kids need to be dealt with, but when they are innocent and 5 years old and entering a school for the first time, that is when you win their hearts and minds, hopefully forever.

By HS Science

December 14, 2005 04:30 PM | Link to this

This is an easy topic. First, I’m Black. Second, a student is one that comes to school to learn - other children in a school building are there for day-care. A student will learn from whomever, the others like excuses for failure. Trust is not an issue. I have students trying to get out of my class for next semester already because they say they won’t be able to pass. Then I hear the student’s today, as they see next semester schedule, telling others students which teacher will pass them. The teachers that they are steering other students to are the ones where you basically pass if you show up. Too much is made out of the “if the kids like or know you.” An earlier comment said it just how I view it - you are to be interested in the knowlege that the teacher has to offer, not the personalities. Some of my best students are ones that I may not particularly “love.” On the rate your teacher site I was surprised to see some of the comments posted this week for me - they rate me high in teaching them but most don’t like my personality. Teacher - just teach, our job is to educate not entertain and win personality contests.

By Manny

December 14, 2005 04:47 PM | Link to this

SWC I see you have put a lot of thought into this topic haven’t you?????? Go buy a book to read.

By Qwesi

December 14, 2005 04:54 PM | Link to this

White teachers for white students. Black teachers for Black students. This way Black children will learn who is keeping them down and holding back their progress as all other ethnic groups continue to pass them by.

By SWC

December 14, 2005 04:59 PM | Link to this

Manny - I see that you have given no thought whatsoever to this subject, so while I read, you can take a hike.

By Multicultural Advicate

December 14, 2005 05:04 PM | Link to this

Lyn,

Please understand that “students see you as a white person” is not a put down or insult. It is however the way a lot of African American kids will see you. You are different from them. Not good or bad just different. What they are thinking is what do you know about my situation or me? You can’t relate to me, you’re white! How can you know what a black kid goes through on a day to day basis?

This is a very typical reaction by humans in general. Different anything scares people sometimes be it different race, religion or sexual orientation. Through getting to know them as individuals and showing an interest in each of them as individual you can show them we are all MUCH more alike then we are different.

By DB

December 15, 2005 08:27 AM | Link to this

SWC: If dad isn’t there, there is still no reason a kid can’t learn to behave. It’s the mother’s responsibility, in that case, to raise a good kid. Schools need to stand firm to the behavioral expectations and have even kids with single parents meet the expectations. Otherwise, making excuses and feeling sorry for them hurts them in the long run. Talk with them, sure, but hold certain expectations at the same time. The “on the roof” was only a figure of speech anyway.

As for innocent 5-year-olds, most are. However, there are little brats, and they are much more easily guided into good behavior. You don’t have to kick them out in most cases. They can learn really well with firm expectations, and they can learn from denial of fun activities and similar consequences. As for kicking kids out, I’m talking about high schoolers. Never make excuses and allow even 5-year-olds to manipulate the system. I see it all the time when they have pushover parents. My point is that almost all that is gone.

Coddling programs: How about the whole high school program? Why is so and so misbehaving? Let’s see how his/her family life is, pretend we care, etc. Give excuses and let them manipulate. If you truly care about kids, you simply tell them, and then you hold them to your expectations and make them feel good when they meet them(and always make them know they are in control of themselves, period). They will gain confidence. High schoolers are tougher in that sense, but very few would actually have to be kicked out, especially if expectations are firm. I’ve been there with inner-city kids. What about ADD ADHD? Parents can’t face that their kid is misbehaving(even though they do at home) because they have no self-confidence. Then they take their insecurities out on schools and blame schools, or better yet some disorder(mostly misdiagnosed I might add). Then they go to the psychologists(by recommendation of spineless schools) and get “sedated” with Ritalin or other drugs. The few that really have a problem are overshadowed by all the ones that think medicine is their only hope. Now if a kid acts up, he/she says, “I didn’t take my medicine today.” What is going on people? Excuses excuses. Then I think back about 8 years when I had kids that supposedly couldn’t read too well. So they had a special ed teacher read them all tests. What is that? How are they to learn to read if that occurs. It gives them an excuse not to learn. Let me tell you, every one of those kids could read if they put in the work. Now for the law that every kid has the right to an education. What a joke. That law makes every kid that really wants and education and respect and education suffer from all the disruptive kids. The expectations go down, and classes are no longer rigorous. Then the coddling of kids through grades. An “A” no longer means anything because the self-esteem movement and mad parents have overrun the system. Many principals give in to parents for behavior, and teachers have to go through all sorts of hoops for kids that act up and behavior. The accountability is shifted everywhere except to the students. Then there’s “Intervention” for failing students. In many states you have to prove how many “extra” things you did for any student that’s failing. The kids have to do nothing, and that’s why they’re failing in the first place.

I’m done. I could go on and on, but it’s just not worth it because there’ll always be too many people making excuses.

By chuck

December 15, 2005 08:45 AM | Link to this

I’ve been reading this blog wondering if anybody was going to address the root issue which is, “Why do black students only see the teacher as a WHITE PERSON and then ASSUME that because she is a white person she couldn’t possibly care about their education?”

This is the major reason we still have racial unrest in America. When the Civil Rights movement began, it was a NOBLE cause. There were real issues of fairness and a need to level the playing field. The leaders of the movement, such luminaries as Thurgood Marshall and Charles Houston, sought emedies for these unfair practices through the courts with great success. Jesse Owens stood tall at the Olympics. Jackie Robinson showed tremendous poise and talent in spite of death threats. Marian Anderson’s beautiful voice sounded across the Nation’s capitol from the Lincoln Memorial after being denied the right to sing at Constitution Hall. Later, Harry Truman integrated the military. Others like Dr. King led peaceful protests against injustices across the South. These were men and women of noble character who wanted the world to be a better place for ALL people.

Unfortunately, leaders like that are all but forgotten by the Black leaders of today. The message of unity is GONE. The message of fairness is GONE. The message of peace is GONE. It has been replaced by the message of victimization and racism. It is sad to see that so many of today’s children are being taught that the path to success is not through hard work and education, but rather through claiming “victim” status, blaming white people, and manipulating the system to get as many handouts as possible from both government and private sources.

Parents don’t understand that children who think that way have two strikes against them before they ever come to the plate, to use a baseball metaphor. I hate that we have come to this as a nation. It is not going to change, unfortunately, as long as we allow people like Al Sharpton, Jessie Jackson and the Howard Deans of the Democratic party to set the agenda for minorities.

By LAMON

December 15, 2005 10:00 AM | Link to this

YOU KNOW, AFRICAN AMERICANS ARE ALWAYS THE VICTIMS. HOW BOUT AN AFRICAN AMERICAN TEACHER WITH WHITE STUDENTS, LETS TALK ABOUT THAT…

By Amazed (Independent Woman)

December 15, 2005 10:06 AM | Link to this

Chuck,

When I read your statements, you start out on good footing - but the last two paragraphs, you start to fall into the blame game. You can stand to look in the mirror. It’s not just the black leaders or the Democratic party, their are lot’s of whites and people in the Republican party who make the whole “Unity” cause move slower to a better society for all.

It takes cooperation from all to make things work. Sometimes you have to move to the center of both parties, if not, we will always have “huge” problems.

By Wake Up

December 15, 2005 10:18 AM | Link to this

SWC:

I really pitied you when you said that you would never embrace black culture. Then, you went on to say that some of your favorite singers/musicians are the late Ray Charles, the late Ella Fitzgerald, etc. Sweetheart, they were AND are a part of black culture! You really contradicted yourself.

You went on to point out the negatives in black culture. Just like you pointed out the “doo-rags” and “gangsta” rap and generalized black culture with those examples, I could generalize white culture as whorish (i.e. Paris Hilton, Pamela Anderson), pedophiles (i.e. the numerous white teachers who have sexual relationships and babies with their teenaged students), pimps (i.e. the record companies who pay for ignorant black artists to degrade themselves), opportunists (i.e. the gas companies, none of which are owned by minorities), and so on. However, if I were to generalize white culture by these examples as you’ve done black culture, I would be stupid.

I thank Almighty God that you are not a teacher—especially my children’s teacher—because I would really have a problem with a teacher who views ANY of her students’ heritages and cultures as inferior (or “dismal”). There are too many like that in the schools now, and it’s no wonder why many kids cannot cope with “American culture”; they feel they don’t belong.

By Manny

December 15, 2005 11:47 AM | Link to this

Wake Up… That’s why I told SWC to go and read a book. This person has too much time on their hands. Comments like SWC’s come from someone who has not been exposed to different cultures around the world (as stated by HB yesterday)….and not just “Jim Crow” (like EC stated) states. We can really take it deep if he wants too. I get so tired of people saying “blacks” are always a victim. Always saying how they steal and negative this as such…..what about all the people who take innocent young girls AND boys virginity….and the only sentence is a few months in jail….always less than 5….and the children have lost the most valuable thing they could every possess…..On top of that, the legal system is the one who have made the punishment so lenient. These are the things SWC should focus his energy on…..not race issues. Don’t ya think that’s a little more important>>>>>

By Manny

December 15, 2005 11:59 AM | Link to this

Broke up my comment…..I hate reading comments a page long……. Can anyone really say they have not been insulted or mistreated by other races beside “Blacks”. I think the answer will be NO…. There are ignorant people in all races, but why it’s so much emphasis put on “Blacks”, I don’t know.

By tiny

December 15, 2005 12:07 PM | Link to this

TO ALL RACES….EXCLUDING AFRICAN AMERICANS:

Not all blacks feel as if we are victims. Not all black children see white teachers as the “devil”. There are some african americans who are successfull and teach their children RIGHT…not RACISM. I am baffled by the teachers who feel this way. What if I felt everytime I say a white teacher that the are sleeping with their own children, molesting other children, and possible molesting mine……since that’s all you see in the media anyway???? Just as the media try to portray african americans in a negative light. The same people who have all these negative reservations about blacks, are the same people who go to church every Sunday with a Bilble in hand…..Do you really think the Higher Power you serve is going to welcome you??????????

By ASA

December 15, 2005 12:10 PM | Link to this

Reading thru this has been bizarre - kind of like some space aliens have phoned in on a radio talk show with Neal Boortz to put their two cents worth in. Downright nutty responses from teachers and students alike. However, SET made a very good point about education and remaining competitive within this world’s economy. As the US of A implodes with all its efforts to remain politically correct, build self-esteem for its minorities, maintain its social entitlement programs - the rest of the world and the emerging economies (they ain’t “3rd World” anymore)are movin’ on - and, we will be eating their dust. We need each and every citizen - educated and ready for the challenge - it saddens me that any black parent/student can’t see that - they still seem to feel “uninvited”. Our diversity could work for us and make our Nation’s response to the coming world changes exiting. For we will have to accept these challenges as a united people -not as a bunch of whining, self-serving individuals. If we can’t get something as simple as the education of an individual off the ground because we are sooooo bogged down in the race/ethnic/historical/heritage background of the student and teacher (God, think of all the baggage that comes with that concept) - we will not hear the bullet when it creases our brain due to our own senseless noise. This American experiment could have been the best this world has ever seen. It seems destined to fail big-time due to chronic divisiveness.

By Manny

December 15, 2005 12:21 PM | Link to this

ASA…. There we go again……generalizing the whole concept. Not all blacks feel “uninvited”. Does your race feel uninvited about anything???? I’m going to take a wild shot and guess you are a caucasian….do you feel uninvited around children? Do you feel univinted around your mom or dad because you have deep sexual thoughts about them???? Think about all the sterotypes the media depicts about ALL races, before you generalize a race in whole. This is why some minorites are offended by such comments….there are some of us who do live by what God expects……loving AND accepting all people, not just our own.

By ReVonda Bowen

December 15, 2005 12:27 PM | Link to this

As a bi-racial woman from a very small town in (Wedowee) Alabama, I experienced teachers that were majority white. At an early age I noticed that I was treated better that the blacks but not as good as the whites. No matter what the race teachers need to reach out and get on an individual level and we as parents, teachers and students need to get out of our boxes and reach the hearts and minds of others. If their heart or your heart is are have been hardened by the past, do not give up but give love, respect and the education that each child need. I realize that you are white and you teach others who are not, but do not ever loose focus on why you are a teacher, you are a teacher to teach and to set examples. While teaching others, teach yourself how to be taught by something or someone that is not-like-you. Equal but different. Pray for wisdom in every area. www.revondabowen.com ReVonda Bowen

By Manny

December 15, 2005 12:37 PM | Link to this

“Blacks always feel the victim”…. I think ReVonda just let us know why “some” are victimized…..not all… just some.

By let's remember

December 15, 2005 12:37 PM | Link to this

Okay, i’m a single mother and yes i am black. I was brought up to respect all my teachers no matter what their race is. However in this day and age when most of these kids are practically raising themselves, they have the attitude that no one cares about me so why should I respect you.Also because of this who is at home teaching the respect? No one. Like i said I am a single mother and in the apartment complex i live in all too often do I see these children go outside and stay out there, no one watching them no one caring about what they are doing as long as they aren’t bothering mama who is either sleep, on the phone, in front of the tv or whatever else. We as a society do not take time to talk to our children because everything is more important. We don’t sit at the table for meals and talk, we don’t read to and with our kids we just put them outside, infront of the tv or the computer and let it go. I think that not only do teachers need to reach out to their students to get to know them but I invite parents to do the same and stop putting all of the burden on the teachers to teach the kids. I know i got off the subject but i feel what i have said is relevant.

By j

December 15, 2005 12:43 PM | Link to this

Racism - yes it does exist and now the teacher knows how difficult it is to work around it. I would try gaining their respect as an individual by respecting them as individuals, because it is the students that are following her example and not vice versa. Teachers themselves perpetuate racism by lumping black kids into one group (mentally). Yes - racist comments and negative TV images may probably leave more damage in the long term on blacks because whites can look around and see that they are the overall dominant race (higher positions in society etc.). I came to the USA in 1992 and lived in FL for 2 years. It was OK, accept that even though my eldest’s math scores were fairly reported I found it quite strange that her best friend, who was white, hated math, and showed me her math homework and assignments grades, which were mainly graded with C’s and even D’s was awarded A’s on her progress/report card. When we moved states and enrolled my eldest in the zoned middle school, we were adamantly told that there were no Advanced math classes in the middle school. Yes - my eldest just failed the test to enter the advanced math class in High School, at which point we were told that she would probably have passed had she not spent 2 years in a regular math class in a middle school that DID have an advanced math class and yes, later on there was a class action lawsuit (which I did not join) by black parents at the same middle school, many of whom were also told there were no advanced math classes. We had to move counties and after two weeks in the zoned high school (99% black), my eldest still did not have a social studies book. The principal was not sure when the books would arrive. Yes - I transferred her into another high school’s magnet course (70% white) that had the most variety of advanced programs, the most equipment and books I had ever seen in the USA, as well as the highest state test scores. Yes - my eldest graduated from college at the age of 21 and is currently employed as a marketing assistant in a growing company, but is looking at graduate programs. Racism - yes I was told in an annual review that although I expressed myself with exceptional verbal clarity they were used to a more mechanical person. No I didn’t even ask what that means because firstly, I don’t care and won’t alter my behavior to fit a prescription and secondly, I have been promoted twice in 3 years with a salary increase of approx. 23%. Racism - yes I was offered many 9%-15% mortgages and didn’t accept (9 months holdout) until I was offered the going rate of 5.5%. Racism -yes I have a ten year old who I recently transferred to another school (into a specialist science/math program) because the teacher in the first school kept telling the prodominantly black class that the Chinese are the most ‘intelligent’ race on the earth. And yes I did talk to the principal but I couldn’t take the chance that the teacher might just have slipped up a couple of times and might not be racist. No I do not take chances with my children. Racism - yes, a co-worker who dresses in formal business attire (as I do) each day was complimented by a more senior white colleague (he said it with a smile on his face), for cleaning the floors so nicely. And yes, for people looking for an excuse other than racism, my co-worker was new on the job and he didn’t know which position she held and yes she dealt with him very nicely. More fairness exists in 2005 than in 1965, but don’t stifle your conscience and think that racism does not exist. It can still be overt despite attempts to hide it due to political correctness.

By James West

December 15, 2005 12:57 PM | Link to this

Sincerity breaks down all barriers.

I’ve taught African American kids and work with them now as a family counselor. Sincerity! They need to know you care about them —- sincerely care about them —- and you can’t fake it.

They can smell a phoney a mile away!

By Manny

December 15, 2005 01:06 PM | Link to this

Based on serveral, but the lastes comment by J…… Again, Victims huh?????? To all that say blacks are always the victim….on this blog are TRUE and REAL LIFE experiences by human beings. Not factual, but true.

By Zoe

December 15, 2005 01:13 PM | Link to this

Pray

By Nish

December 15, 2005 01:27 PM | Link to this

just wanted to comment on both issues. in regards to the issue about children/teachers/race, i think it was a great suggestion that teachers get to know their students. it’s important that we take a moment to remember the teachers who made an impact on our lives and i guarantee it was those teachers who went beyond teaching and showed compassion and really reached out to their students. as someone who recently decided against becoming a teacher, many of the things stated in this blog were reasons i chose not to pursue it. it is a difficult enough job, but in having to deal w/ “sensitive” issues such as race, makes the job that much harder. teachers should not be held solely responsible for teaching children about race and racism-this is a job for parents. lest we all forget that we are human first. though racism does exist in the world, must we always think that everyone is racist? second issue-teachers are greatly underpaid and undervalued. i took an educational issues class in preparation for my supposed career in teaching, and i cannot tell you about all the things that i was unaware of or just never really gave attention to in regards to education and the job of teaching. for the most part, i think we as a society don’t really value teachers- we just want them to be completely responsible for our kids’ education and blame them for everything gone wrong. let’s not forget there are so many others involved in the education process- many of whom don’t have a clue as to what it’s like to be a teacher. i think society needs to get out of the belief that the reason children are failing in schools has to do w/ teachers. in my opinion i believe this has more to do w/ the method used to assess children’s learning and how this affects what they’re to be taught. in this country we are so obsessed w/standardized tests that there is no real learning taking place. teachers have no control over these things. but that’s just my opinion. i think teaching is one of the most difficult jobs and i give a warm and sincere thank you to all those who have made it their profession.

By Professor

December 15, 2005 01:56 PM | Link to this

I’ve been following this discussion and I think that we’re losing the focus here….It’s all about the children! I see my children, and yes they do attend a private Christian Academy, and they have yet to learn the difference of black or white, except when it comes to coloring in their coloring books. I have many friends from many different corners of the world and they have expressed that in all of their years and travels, this is the only country where you HAVE to fall on one side of the coin or the other. Everything is either Black or White. There is no in between. The first thing that we see in OUR society is color, then if they’re a male or a female. What difference should it make if your teacher/professor is brown, black, white, red, green yellow, Puerto Rican, or Haitian? If we really take a step back and be honest with ourselves and look at all of the responses, isn’t this forum indicative of our society and its way of thinking? I’m not here to take personal shots at any one person or any one race. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Let us not forget that an opinion is neither good nor bad, right nor wrong. An opinion is something that you feel. Let’s shift the focus back on what’s important, the children, and less on making attacks on one another because we agree to disagree.

By chuck

December 15, 2005 03:00 PM | Link to this

Amazed,

The last two paragraphs were in answer to the question posed by Patti concerning the idea that some Black students look AUTOMATICALLY at White teachers and ASSUME that they are Racist. The crux of the matter is that we MUST UNDERSTAND why this is if we are to fix the problem.

Surely you know that the message HAS CHANGED. As others have pointed out, certainly racism still exists. There is however, a different way to respond to racism than acting like a victim. I can’t believe that Dr. King would have made the statement for instance, that President Bush HATES BLACK PEOPLE, because of the Katrina response like Kanye West did. I can’t believe that Charles Houston would be celebrating the life of a foul-mouthed drug addict like Richard Pryor and pointing to HIM as a role model like so many have done this week. I also can’t believe that the Congressional Black Caucus would call Republicans RACISTS because they think that there are better ways to solve the problem of poverty than through unlimited government handouts.

I did NOT say that all democrats used these tactics. I specifically pointed to the “Howard Deans” of the party as being the culprits.

I’d like to hear from you Amazed as to whether you think that the promotion of victimization as the rallying cry for Blacks is PRODUCTIVE. Is it a good thing to constantly remind children that they CAN’T be successful because “Whitey” is always going to hold them back. Is it beneficial to teach children that the best way to live is in Government Housing, with Food Stamps and a welfare check? I don’t think it is. I think we ought to tell ALL of our children that THIS IS AMERICA. Through your own abilities, ideas, hard work and education YOU CAN DO AND BE ANYTHING YOU WANT TO DO OR BE. It doesn’t matter where you came from, what color your skin is, or what religion you choose to be a part of if any. You should build your abilities and knowledge through education and training and then trust them to get you where you want to go. That is the kind of world the Civil Rights Movement was trying to build, NOT the world of Jessie Jackson.

By ReVonda Bowen

December 15, 2005 03:20 PM | Link to this

I was was a “victim” at my high school in Wedowee, AL. “Victim” not just because of my race but because of the so-called-higher-ups ignorance. The principle of the high school called me a “mistake” b/c I am bi-racial. As we know God does not make mistakes but people do. Mistakes are made when we disrespect, mistreat, or not educate as we should. My principle was a white man, a man that should set great examples to teachers, students and parents. When I was singled out in the assembly and called a “mistake”, I did wonder and think about a lot of things. One thing that I thought and think about was why did he feel this way about me, did other so-called-role-models feel the same way and if I am seen as a mistake how do you teach “mistakes”? Why would you accept a postion and belittle the ones that are listening, watching and teachable. Students look up to certain individuals but it is up to the individual to be seen as a light and as we know lights need to shine in many areas but “darkness” from a negative being can spill out. My dad is white, therefore I know all whites do not have this attitude or thought process, but I do know that each individual must be accountable for their own actions, to some it all up, do not hang on the race of individuals even if you have been wronged by just one of them. We can decide to teach or not to teach but whatever your passion is or whatever you decide, please know that you will teach others who are different but equal. I really encourage you to visit www.revondabowen.com to see what I am speaking about. It was to the extent that the school was burned down and alot of tension all because of ignorance. We as Americans must regroup and rethink alot of things but please know that we can all be taught something new. Don’t be offended, turned off, or disrespect others no matter what the color; instead treat others the way you want to be treated (with the up most respect). My heart goes out to all of you that are reading but please know that it is past time for US to stick together and teach and learn from one another what is good and right. Again, I am bi-racial, I have been singled out by race, hair and so on, I chose not my name or my race. As adults we have choices, I ask you to please choose to teach and love as you know you should and be the light for others to see. ReVonda Bowen

By TC

December 15, 2005 03:52 PM | Link to this

Chuck, Where do these black people live that you know of who think like this????? I’m black and none of my friends feel this way and we didn’t come from that kind of environment. I guess white people don’t get public assistance. I pass by a trailer park everyday morning and I see a rainbow of colors……I guess no one else need assistance but Black people…..oh I forgot, that’s all YOU see in the media.

By TC

December 15, 2005 04:00 PM | Link to this

Revonda As you can tell, not many people will comment on stories like yours…..they want to hold on to the hate their great, great, great grandparents handed down to them.

Chuck, you had a lot to say about black people, what do you have to say about all of the white catholic priest who are and have been molesting children for years?? I only say 1 black priest at John Paul Popes’ funeral. If you had your choice, would you rather be a minority on assistance, or have a son being molested by an adult man for years?????

By chuck

December 15, 2005 04:06 PM | Link to this

ReVonda, just interested to know, How long ago was that? In any event, that principal does NOT need to head a school. That is not the kind of role model that we need to put in front of kids.

TC, if you read my post you would see that I DO NOT THINK THAT WAY. The post was about the students WHO DO THINK THAT WAY. If you are saying they don’t exist then you must have limited contact with the outside world. If you think that Black leaders aren’t saying as much then you need to read the newspapers a little more. In case you don’t want to take the time to scroll back up, this is how I finished the post. Tell me what you disagree with in these statements:

I think we ought to tell ALL of our children that THIS IS AMERICA. Through your own abilities, ideas, hard work and education YOU CAN DO AND BE ANYTHING YOU WANT TO DO OR BE. It doesn’t matter where you came from, what color your skin is, or what religion you choose to be a part of if any. You should build your abilities and knowledge through education and training and then trust them to get you where you want to go.

By chuck

December 15, 2005 04:09 PM | Link to this

TC, I think those “priests” should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, but the analogy is pretty weak.

By TC

December 15, 2005 04:22 PM | Link to this

Chuck I mentioned the priests because several people including yourself mentioned “blacks on public assistance”. That is always the first thing other races jump too when they are discussing race issues. I made that statment so others will know, other races have their “dark shadows” also. By the way you responded….it shows me that when you mention the faults of other races……it’s funny how righteous we become…….

By j

December 15, 2005 04:36 PM | Link to this

To Taxpayer: I read and hear your points, that this teacher was particularly venimous, however, there may have been other things going on that were said in response at home or other places that also perpetuated difficulties between the children. As I have said before both myself and my children have had a variety of experiences but all of us in the family still maintain many long term friendships with people of all ethnicities, races, and socioeconomic status. The people and children that are affected the most are often those who are also living a fairly narrow life around the experience, so there may be nothing positive for them to fall back on or create balance in their life.

By ReVonda Bowen

December 15, 2005 05:09 PM | Link to this

The year was 1994. Not very long ago. Reading through everyone’s suggestions, hurts, pains and even love and ignorance, we as a nation are not perfect and will never be because we are human. While we are all human, we have access to wisdom and knowledge. Have you seen the movie CRASH? Good movie, see it. We tend venture off and loose focus, lose ourselves and even lose the youth. Train a child the right way and while training them, we are to train and retrain ourselves what is good and right. I do not care who you are, we have each been hurt in some way from other races, organizations or again, just plain ignorance, my question to you is what will you (we) do to prevent it and to make a change to help and not hurt. Democrats, republicans, blacks, whites, God’s child or just hell on wheels….what are WE going to do to help those who are in need. RACE to help, not RACE to hurt! If you are a teacher, teach what is right with love. ReVonda Bowen

By ASA

December 15, 2005 05:24 PM | Link to this

My Goodness Manny - are we having a “bad med day?” My genetic soup includes African, Asian and European - I don’t have a single distant relative from the Caucasus area (on the eastern side of the Black Sea). ReVonda’s entry brought back some very bitter memories - my mom (who was the mixture of African/Asian)was the darkest in our family unit(Dad was blonde and blue eyed) - I don’t know how many times we had to explain to people that she wasn’t the maid or a Mexican or whatever the heck they thought she was. It seemed normal to us to have such fantastic array of colors in our little family unit - and no - you just don’t seem to fit in a world that doesn’t like in between - you must be one or the other - it’s kind of like you’re part of some diabolical plot. Inclusion in this society is hard that demands an either/or designation - hence my real concern for those of us who feel - uninvited (this is the part where I believe Manny needs to take his meds). Well, back to education before the Professor scolds us for digressing…

By Manny

December 16, 2005 09:02 AM | Link to this

ASA No, just speaking the truth. Why is it that other races can speak bad about African amerians (always being on public assistance, listening to rap, doo-rags,etc…) and no one on the blog said that person was having a bad med day, so why is it that when a black person has something bad to say about white people, they are always hostile, angry, or having a bad “med day”???? It’s like we are supposed to sit and let everyone insult us, but we have to sit and keep quite……..my point exactly.

By Fitting Out

December 16, 2005 02:19 PM | Link to this

Why is it always racism when someone points out the obvious deficiencies in American Africans’ educational standard? How is it I constantly hear about how blacks are given less consideration from their own color for becoming educated. (AKA - Trying to be white) Is it racist to speak of how Asians and Indians continually set the bar?

The American Negro truly is a cursed race.

By J

December 19, 2005 08:37 AM | Link to this

Why is the ‘American Negro’ the cursed race? I guess that negates the success of many of my friends who have jumped over and way above the ‘bar’ despite the hurdles they faced.

By Nikole

December 26, 2005 04:24 PM | Link to this

There is plenty of qualitative research showing that black students are raised to be wary of whites, due to the previous experiences of their parents and if you plan on teaching black students, you must show CARE and concern, it is necessary to thier success. I am a success, but had my teachers shown Care and concern, I may have reached my maximum potential. Read some of John Ogbu’s work for more insight. For those that do not believe that schools reproduce our social systems and at times are blatantly racist, read Jonathan Kozol, especially Savage Inequalities.