Get Schooled

By Yes they are

December 9, 2005 08:18 AM | Link to this

Teachers are expected to do too much for their students. Anyone who gets into teaching to “change a life” or because they played school with their dolls growing up is in for a rude awakening. It’s not snuggly hugs and rapt attention from students these days. Not all, but a large percentage of children are born to miserable, hateful parents who pass these traits on to their offspring. The parents and kids are miserable, and they set out to make the teacher’s life a living hell. Teachers should go to school, teach the kids to the best of their ability, and leave the counseling and life changing up to professional counselors and corrections officials.

By RF

December 9, 2005 08:24 AM | Link to this

transforming lives is EXACTLY what we do, in all the little things we teach and show kids every single day. We don’t have to TRY to transform lives, we do that as part of the daily routine. We don’t often see the major impact of ‘Stand and Deliver’, but every day that we go into a classroom and lovingly teach our kids, we make a tiny difference that over the course of time changes lives. If we simply go in and ‘do the job’, then we are missing the point. Every day I teach, I know that I am a living example of what life can be for my kids, and I am impacting and changing their lives in small ways just by being here and trying to reach and teach them. It’s not something you do over and above the job, it IS the job. We make a difference because we’re here, and many of our kids will have good lives because we’re here reaching out to them every day.

By D

December 9, 2005 08:26 AM | Link to this

I cannot say that teachers are verbally asked to do too much for their students,but I can say without reservation that some parents expect too much from their child’s teacher. A teacher can make a difference in a child’s life for sure, but to overcome a lack of any form of a role model at home is a bit much too ask, don’t you think? My wife is a Christian teacher in a public school. Does she preach to the kids? No! What she does is be the correct kind of role model when needed, the correct kind of help like a parent should, a friend when at times the kid has none, and can lead them to make good decisions when called upon to counsel them because their parents won’t. Bye the way, she teaches them wonderfully when she has time aside from all her other duties.

By Karen Armsby

December 9, 2005 08:35 AM | Link to this

I am not a teacher, and IMHO a teacher is just a person, not a superhero. A teacher may choose the profession because of a talent for teaching, a love of children, or because he or she has a desire to transform lives. I have met a few of those very special teachers who have this passion and ability to transform lives. I don’t think anyone expects that all teachers could or should fit into that mold.

I think we are discussing the scale of the effort to transform lives. While most teachers don’t have the time or energy to become the superhero teacher like Jaime Escalante, a parent or social worker to all of their students, I do think that aspiring to make a big difference, to provide enlightened inspiration and guidance in even one student is within the ability of every teacher. And I think many teachers do connect with their students every day to make a positive impact of learning, discipline, respect and success.

By jim dumond

December 9, 2005 09:05 AM | Link to this

While I’m not a paid professional teacher, I AM the most important teacher my child will ever have. As for the Pros, they should not be asked to be my child’s hero nor should they be asked to be one for any child. I do believe they should be challenged to inspire rather than teach mere facts but to what degree and with which students? Well, I’ll leave that to the pros.

By b. white

December 9, 2005 09:09 AM | Link to this

I am a white middle school teacher and I teach all African American students. At times the students resent my asking them to adhere to my classroom rules. I call parents who whole heartedly support me only to have the students come back to class totally unfazed for the most part. My latest epiphany is that if I show anger over the situation the students only get what they wanted - disruption in the classroom and disrespect to me. What they don’t get at home I simply can not give them enough of to make up for the loss. Yeah! I’m almost burned out!

By WmH

December 9, 2005 09:33 AM | Link to this

By WmH I used to be a teacher in public schools but the lack of respect the students showed to me when I tried to teach drove me into the business world where I succeeded in continuing to teach not only for pay but also as a volunteer. I love teaching and sharing information but only to those who are willing to learn. Today’s students do not seem to realize that the window for learning is only open to them for a short period of their lives. When they choose not to take advantage of this opportunity, they are cheating themselves of the ability to support themselves and the future family of their choice. Without caring, motivated teachers our world is doomed because there will soon be no one to support all those who chose to ignore and disrespect the people who came to teach them and lead them into the land of choice and opportunities. I thank God for the people who willing go into classrooms everyday and teach. Woe unto us when there is no one to go there!

By Tired Teach

December 9, 2005 09:36 AM | Link to this

THere were some years when I looked forward to the end of the school year just so that I could stop drinking. Othere years I floated through the days in love with my profession. I am always amazed by the variety in student ability levels from year to year. One year the kids are practically all AP students and the next they are 7th graders on 2nd or 3rd grade reading levels. Couldn’t give less of a damn for what I have to say as their teacher. Then years later young men and women come up to me in public and tell me how much they enjoyed my class or reflect on something funny that they will always remember. Some of these kids I would have sworn had one foot in Riedsville. Now they are handsome and polite young adults. Did I transform them or inspire them? I don’t think so, but I do think that my role as one of their teachers did help add to the mix in providing them clues and examples of what it means to be a productive responsible individual and citizen. Not all make it but the majority do to one extent or another. That is life.

By MPM

December 9, 2005 09:39 AM | Link to this

The thing to consider regarding teachers being told to teach like Escalante is that Escalante had many problems with his administration regarding his stratagies, eventually leading him to quit his position at Garfield (where the AP Calc. rebirth took place); His fellow pioneer in the program also quit when his class sizes grew to over 50 students and the admin. refused to help him out. Mr. Escalante kept his sudents late, refused to let them leave, refused to allow certain students into the class, yelled, cursed, and cajoled until the students learned, and all of this, by his own admission, took several years to accomplish. (Check out his biogrphy on Wikipiedia here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaime_Escalante to see more info). Administrators and motivational speakers would like to have us believe that Escalante tranformed these kids in the space of 9 months using feel-good, cuddly, everyone-is-great-and-you-can-do-it-if-you-try stratagies, which is just not the case. I would love to be able to inspire like Escalanate, but the confines of teaching don’t allow for that kind of classroom any more. Can we inspire? Yes. Can we do it with every student every time? No. Are we made to feel like failures if we don’t? Yes.

By Dondon

December 9, 2005 09:48 AM | Link to this

Teaching is a burn out job, when you expect the teacher to be the parent, social worker, and everything else. And then make such a middle of the road salary. Teachers need postive support from principals, but often do not get it. Principals are often concerned with keeping thier jobs and having a top school at the expensive of the teachers. Then many parents just want Johnny to pass no matter what, even if Johnny has no work ethic and lacks basic skills.

By Amazed (Independent Woman)

December 9, 2005 10:08 AM | Link to this

I don’t think that’s asking too much. When my company set’s a goal, I am expected to deliver. We are in the process of setting goals for 2006, this week.

We are expected to transform the company and make it more profitable. We are also mentors for new employees and we do not get paid for it.

If a customer is not happy, we become substitute parents. Because, we are expected to do whatever it takes to make the customer happy.

Teaching is a career and challenges exist know matter what the job description entails. We are ALL expected to do more than what we feel is obtainable.

I know that a teacher can make a difference in a childs life, not only the brightest - but a problem child as well.

Try it, you will have something to brag about.

By GW

December 9, 2005 10:09 AM | Link to this

No matter how charismatic a teacher may be, changing a life is simply a matter of good luck. Teachers are rarely looked upon by students and parents as the one that will help pull themselves up by the bootstrings.

By Becky

December 9, 2005 10:11 AM | Link to this

I am not told that I am suppose to do extra things for the students, but what am I suppose to do if all my students don’t have paper and pencils. I spend my own money to make sure that I have extra in my classroom for them to use. I buy tissues for all the runny noses. I am expected to excuse some student’s behavior because the are athletes, affluent, poor, abused, or whatever. I am suppose to modify because this one is disadvantaged. And folks, I do all of this and usually with a smile on my face because I love teaching and I love my job. I am not a superhero. I am just someone who cares.

By RF

December 9, 2005 10:15 AM | Link to this

Then why are we here, folks, if not to try to make a difference? We’re hardly Escalante every day, but we all impact kids’ lives, sometimes in big ways. It’s not about being a social worker or counselor as much as it’s about listening and showing kids you care about them. Regardless of how good or bad their homes are, their issues with life show up at school. We can’t solve their problems, nor should we try to solve them. But by letting them know we care and expect better for their lives, we can reach past the crap in their lives and help them become a little bit better. It’s frustrating, demanding, and exhausting. You either know that coming in or learn it quickly. I made myself a promise years ago when I started that I would keep teaching as long as it was fun. If I ever hate it or feel miserable, then I owe it to myself and my students to get out and find something else. I go home some days asking why I bothered, but always I can come back the next day and be reminded again why I’m here. I teach remedial high school reading, and I see the worst of the worst sometimes. But I keep coming back because in the end it’s worth the effort, the worry, the frustration, and the stress to be here and use the awesome power I have to shape the misshapen into something wonderful.

By Leia

December 9, 2005 10:17 AM | Link to this

Amazed - schools are not a “company” and students are not “products.” Using your analogy, I should be able to discard the waste products from the environment, as to increase our chances of meeting our goal - right? If I removed the “waste” students from the classroom, I’d have a lawsuit on my hands.

I only have my students for about 53 minutes per day. I teach them the content in the time alloted, and I get the next group. I can only show them by modeling what I consider good behavior, proper use of grammar and how to conduct oneself in a respectable manner - none of which are AKS in my content area! I do not have the time or the desire to jeopardize my own family’s well-being for the sake of my students (as Escalante did in the movie).

If you want me to play Mommy - give me their SSN so I can also claim him on my taxes.

By jim dumond

December 9, 2005 10:20 AM | Link to this

I’ve been blogging here now for about a month and the one common thread I’ve observed by both parents and teachers alike is that everyone rightfully thinks the responsibility for a child’s education is first and foremost that of the parents. So the question begs to be asked. Why do school administrators have such a problem comprehending this simple premise? Are they that dense? Are we not expressing this to them clearly? Or are they just little Adolph’s in disguise?

By Dondon

December 9, 2005 10:21 AM | Link to this

Biz is about making money! off course you do all in your power to do that! But teaching can have unreal expectations on the teacher. The notion that caring is the answer to everything is silly. I am a sped teacher and have worked with all kinds of troubled kids, but I will tell you that the truth is that there are no easy answers. Sometimes, parents need to care and many don’t.

By Amazed (Independent Woman)

December 9, 2005 10:23 AM | Link to this

B. White -

As an African American parent, I would like to offer you a suggestion. Take one day, maybe the last day of school and let the children talk about themselves.

Use the time to (1.)Find out what they like to do at home (2.) where they go for fun (3.)Favorite tv program, music artist, etc - then ask them why (4.)Let them ask about your life outside of school (5.)Tell them how much you Love them and why you want them to get the best education.

The reason I have suggested all of that is because the kids see you as a white person. They do not believe that you can truly care about their education. I also want you to understand as much about each of them as possible. It will give you more insight into their individual souls and not as a group. The more you try to get to know each of them on a personal level, the more influence you will have over their lives.

You will not get participation from all of them, but I know you can reach a few of them. I would start with the children who cause the biggest problems in class. Be enthhusiastic and look completely interested in what they are saying. You will not like everything that you hear, but it will give you a look into their lives. Ask lot’s of questions and take a few notes, for future reference when dealing with that specific child.

Thanks

By v

December 9, 2005 10:27 AM | Link to this

I really love my job. I am most decidedly in the minority here, but most of my students don’t seem to notice that I’m of another race. (Yes, some are actually surprized if someone informs them I am white!) To paraphrase “The Best Christmas Pagent Ever”, at times I’m certain that some of my students are headed straight to hell by way of the state penitentary. Then something happens and they really touch my heart. I’m considered “auxillary staff” so I can’t claim to be a “real teacher”, but I try to be an example, show compassion, exhibit high expectations, befriend the outsiders and just generally love the unloveable. Its a wonderful job and they pay me to do it!!! It would be very easy to burn out, but that’s what June, July and August are for.

By Amazed (Independent Woman)

December 9, 2005 10:35 AM | Link to this

Lei -

It’s not a comparison, I’m just stating that teaching is a job and we all have what we consider to be unreasonable expectations.

I have exactly three weeks to complete 85 presentations, tailored specifically to 85 different clients. I can only ask for help, but I am expected in Orlando with the presentations - no matter what.

They expect me to be able to enjoy Disney, but I will be to “Blank” tired. I will also be working through out the holidays and I am an exempt employee, so no extra incentives for me.

By Becky

December 9, 2005 10:42 AM | Link to this

I thought it was the parents who insisted on the schools being responsible for so many things for which I personally think they should be responsible. ie. sex education, morals, manners

By 1st year

December 9, 2005 10:55 AM | Link to this

I’m a 1st year 7th grade teacher but not a young one (41 yrs happily married for twenty with two teenagers). I went into the profession because I love working with kids and I want to share a love of learning with them. Somehow I seem to connect with the students, boys and girls alike. I joke with them, let them ask questions, and give them straight answers. For some, I am the only adult that is willing to listen to them and talk to them like their are human beings not animals. Unfortunately, colleagues that have been teaching for years view this as unprofessional. They watch every move I make and listen to everything that is said with an intensity the FBI and CIA would be proud of. Their objective seems to be keeping the learning environment one in which the students see authority figures as someone to fear and hate and school is a barless prison. The attitude is enough to make me question staying in the profession. I spend more time each day with my students than their parents. I am a role model for them whether I chose to be or not. If my caring is showing them that adults can be trusted and loving when the other adults in their life don’t, how is that wrong? If I don’t show these kids that adults aren’t big bad monsters to be feared, who will?

By jim dumond

December 9, 2005 10:57 AM | Link to this

Not I, Becky.

I’m sure there are some irresponsible parents out there that would gladly relinquish responsibility. Perhaps my questions should have read; why have schools so readily accepted parental responsibility? And, Why have the majority of parents allowed it to happen? Why have we, the majority of caring God fearing parents, allowed the few that can’t or won’t control their children to force the rest of us to give up our rights and responsibilities?

By jim dumond

December 9, 2005 11:05 AM | Link to this

1st year, finally a teacher that gets it.

I too work with young people as an adult leader in Boy Scouts. Our first goal is to be the boy’s friends, to get them to trust and to realize we are there to support them.

I strongly believe this leaves them open to learning. They learn by doing and then share that learning by teaching younger Scouts, freeing us adults up to just making sure they don’t kill each other and enjoy watching them learn and grow.

By high school teacher

December 9, 2005 11:08 AM | Link to this

In our instant gratification society, we don’t see that most teachers do inspire their students. We just don’t know unless they come back and tell us years later. The most rewarding aspect of my job is when I am approached by a distinguished looking young adult who says, “Your class helped me when I was in college,” “You are the reason I became a teacher,” or “You were the one who taught me how to write.” Sometimes these comments come from the unsuspecting former students, the ones you thought were sleeping in class, or the one “you failed” and had to take a class over again.

As teachers we have the responsibility to be a role model to our students: to show them that there are adults who do have productive lives, who acknowledge that time matters, who hold them to high expectations (even if they don’t meet them), and who care whether or not they are alive. I don’t try to change the world in my clasroom; I just try to teach kids how to live in it.

By SET

December 9, 2005 11:18 AM | Link to this

Teachers are expected to do too much by the government schools.

You cannot have a non-exclusive set of children (and they are kids not products) and expect ordinary teachers (not Superman) to get the results we were able to get even 30 years ago.

There are too many endemic problems in Urban America in each “set” of students in a classroom. Frankly the students are too diverse to be taught together.

Diversity as practiced in Urban America is a undesirable as The Tower Of Babel and for the same reasons. It is madness and weakness. You can’t get business done in these conditions.

I haven’t even started on the failures of parenting brought on by government policy that forces mothers to remain in the workforce full time. Ladies - Divorce on demand was a REALLY bad thing for family stability. That was another bright idea from the era of Johnson’s Great Society. We can’t change the parents overnight but we can change the party atmosphere of the students. When Mommy and her boyfriend have to make other plans for little flunkout maybe the bunch of them will start to change with the times.

When it’s sink or swim time people learn to swim. The trick is to keep up the pressure.

Teachers have a right to expect that they will be given a class of students with some reasonable expectation of being ready willing and able to learn. In English.

Until students are screened and sorted for the teachers to begin working with we will continue to have degregation in our “products” and this is not as much the Teacher’s fault as it is the School Boards and the related government meddlers.

At least one Californis School District has instituted High School Entrance requirements that will begin to prevent students from starting high school who are statistically expected to fail anyway. They will be forced into alternative schools from 9th grade on and will be seperated from the normal (i.e. not failing) children.

If the teacher’s unions would get their heads out of the Socialist Party Gamebook and start campaigning for the end of “diversity” and “affirmative action” and ruthless across the board enforcement of standards - including the ability to flunk students out of class at any and every age, we would have less acting out in primary & secondary schools and more performance.

I’m not meaning to say that any members of religious or ethnic group can’t make it in school. I am saying that there should be no accomodation for those who are unqualified to start a particular grade or class and no compromise for classroom standards academic, behavioral, and social for those who enroll. Yes this does mean that promiscious students and pregnant females would be expelled if they didn’t withdraw from normal schools. And Yes this means that there would be a lot fewer Blacks and Hispanics in normal schools based on current behaviors. You would have better luck with later generations as it was made clear what was acceptable. I’d rather the current crop of losers of whatever color start their lives cleaning toilets or installing them at 14 than disrupting classes because they’re bored and unable to cope with academia at 14.

If teachers were allowed to teach and to fail students much of the complaints we have about the schools would diminish and we could get back to griping about talking in class and chewing gum. Students with other issues and lesser abilities can and should move along to Alternative schools, vocational training, McDonalds, Special Ed or Prison.

A Teacher should be able to go into a classroom with a reasonable expectation that every student wants to be in that class and will therefore try to co-operate and learn and will accept the teacher’s authority. That goes double for the teacher’s expectation of the parents/guardians. A teacher should be able to expect the parents/guradian to be glad and grateful that the child is accepted in the class - not that they have a right to be there because they are alive. It’s the basis upon which co-operation witht he teacher and the learning process is obtained.

Not getting this is why the teachers are having problems and it’s not the teacher’s failure it is the school which has turned itself into a homeless camp and free daycare center. If we want a free daycare center we should open one and call it that and not bug the children with chemistry, civics and english classes.

I support classroom teachers. I have real problems with school administrators starting with school boards. The teachers are not (yet) able to select their students. The school administration can select students for each class. Day care can be run in an auditorium and a football field. Make them run laps and water them.

Change is possible and it can be done in increments from semester to semester. I saw it when I was a sub and the (already) strong school district started ratcheting up the pressure on the students to eliminate tardys and absenteeism. They locked all the classroom doors when the tardy bell rang and suspended anyone caught outside. This was in the middle schools. Within 2 weeks the tardy problem was permanently solved. Then they started transferring out the ghost students to undesirable schools. So we had no more “missing” students. This was the early 1980s.

Teachers are not responsible for school problems. Every school problem from the dirty bathrooms to the academic issues are the failure of the administration and school boards.

By another teacher

December 9, 2005 11:30 AM | Link to this

A couple of comments: WHY would a black student think that a white teacher does not care about their education? That attitude has got to come from home. If they have been taught all their lives that white people are “bad” or “out to get them,” they are losers in the long run. My race has nothing to do with the success or effort of the students.

Also: last year I had a parent tell me in February that she had not seen a report card all year. Whose fault is that? Don’t parents have some type of responsibility to know when report cards will be out? If it’s mid-semester and you haven’t seen one yet, call the school and ask why. Should high school teachers have to call every one of their 180 students’ parents and tell them report cards have gone home?

By jim dumond

December 9, 2005 11:40 AM | Link to this

Not quite SET.

Along with the rambling proposals you have presented should be a students ability to choose teachers as well as being accepted by the teachers.

Yes, my friend “Some teachers are responsible for problems in schools. They are human and some really shouldn’t be in the classroom regardless of the number of degrees hanging on the wall. A degree doesn’t mean someone is capable of teaching nor that they have the skills to do so. It simply means they posses the knowledge. Being able to impart that knowledge takes a whole nuther type of person.

By jim dumond

December 9, 2005 11:46 AM | Link to this

Another teacher,

That “WHY would a black student think that a white teacher does not care about their education?” question would be an excellent question for another Badie blog.

By Shell

December 9, 2005 11:48 AM | Link to this

jim:

You win the prize for Best Line Of The Day. No, make that Best Line Ever.

I AM the most important teacher my child will ever have.

Amen, brother, amen. I came to being a parent late in life but knew going in that the first people my daughter would look to for guidance, instruction, and role models are her mother and me. I can’t fathom how some people never grasp that. I will say that many, many people don’t look on having and raising children as a grave responsibility. To them, children are just something that happens when you have sex (in other venues I put that more pithily, it has more punch that way) and thus are a burden to be dealt with rather than a blessing to be cherished, as well as a chance to make the world a better place by sending a decent human being out into it.

Given that there are parents like those cited above, I think that along with some school staffs’ attitude of “We are the university-educated professionals, we therefore know better than you how and what to teach your children, so just keep the supplies coming, volunteer to fetch and tote at school events, and leave us to do what you are not qualified to do.” The attitude is not prevalent, but it’s there. I’ve encountered it at my daughter’s elementary school, and it was a large part of the reason behind my sister’s decision to home-school her children. I’ve had to make it plain to a couple of people at my daughter’s school that their having a degree and teaching certificate and my not having either doesn’t automatically make them smarter than me.

By jim dumond

December 9, 2005 11:55 AM | Link to this

Thanks Shell,

I started a family early, very early, then was given the greatest gift of all after the children had grown, married, and had children of their own. I’m now raisng that gift.

Nice to meet another old rebellious parent. So many that I meet at school appear to have started very early too.

By Becky

December 9, 2005 11:59 AM | Link to this

I also wonder why so many parents want and allow the school to take over raising their children, Jim. And then they want to tell us what we are doing wrong. I would be perfectly happy just making sure that my students understand what they are reading so that they can be successful in life. If I had wanted to raise kids, I would have had some of my own.

By RF

December 9, 2005 11:59 AM | Link to this

Shell- Often times teachers have that attitude because so many parents have challenged every decision they make. All too often it’s ‘us against them’ because we don’t trust each other along the way. Communication is key—with respect and patience. Parents and teachers alike need to remember this. The only time I would challenge a parent or teacher is if there is lack of respect. I think we’ve become a very disrespectful society in general and see any authority as a personal challenge. You have to realize that a teacher’s degree does contribute towards making that person an authority in the classroom. Question their decisions, in private, with respect. They may not be smarter, but they are trained in learning theory and curriculum delivery. They don’t tell you how to raise them at home, so don’t assume the teachers don’t know how to do the job in the school.

By Robert

December 9, 2005 12:05 PM | Link to this

IMHO, and as a high school teacher, my role is to perform my job and to teach content. I can be a role model if I do what I am supposed to do and behave properly (use proper English, follow the rules, etc.). Students know when teachers, themselves, do not follow the rules, and so the teachers will set poor examples for the students.

I do not reach out and try to change their lives. I lead by example. Most teenagers would resent me if I would try to interject myself into their lives.

By jim dumond

December 9, 2005 12:10 PM | Link to this

RF, And at times it pure and simple paranoia or superiority complex by the teacher. It does happen.

My child has been taught from day one to respectfully question a teacher if he thinks they are in error. To date(sophmore in high school) he’s batting 1000. And no it’s not because he hasn’t made any challenges. He’s just smarter in certain subjects than his teachers. Some teachers take offense to this, I’ve only had to become involved once, so I guess he’s done a good job of doing it respectfully.

By Becky

December 9, 2005 12:12 PM | Link to this

Any teacher who won’t admit when they are wrong, shouldn’t be teaching. I will happily tell my students when I make an error. After all, I am only human.

By Leia

December 9, 2005 12:12 PM | Link to this

Robert - that is exactly how I feel!

By RF

December 9, 2005 12:22 PM | Link to this

Jim- exactly my point. Sometimes teachers are wrong. I have seen in my years of teaching that in general parents are much, much quicker to question us now. Not that some don’t need to be questioned, but I think we’ve become unnecessarily defensive overall.

Robert— We teach KIDS first. We teach those kids a specific content. You have to reach the kids first or the content bounces right off them. It’s demanding and taxing, but if they don’t buy into what you’re teaching then they just tune you out. I’m not saying be like Escalante, but realize your focus as a teacher is on teaching KIDS a subject, not the other way around. I’ve done it for sixteen years and that understanding has helped me get through an awful lot.

By Shell

December 9, 2005 12:31 PM | Link to this

RF: I understand and agree. I trust my child’s teachers to do their job to the best of their ability and treat her and the other children like people, not like idiots. Only once have I had to “jerk a knot” in one teacher’s posterior. First because she was fairly new and hadn’t yet grasped that as the teacher she was in charge of the classroom and didn’t have to yell at everyone, especially yelling at everyone because of the actions of one or two. I don’t do group punishment of children, it’s counter-productive. Second because at the beginning of the school year she gathered up the personal school supplies that I and the other parents had bought and sent with our children and said she would dole them out as needed because it was a privilege to have their own stuff to use in class. I had to explain to the woman that ownership of private property is not a privilege but a right, and that as our children’s rights flow from us as the adults, those supplies that we bought and gave to them were theirs by right. She tried to point to her degree, and my lack of one, as evidence of her better grasp of the matter but I pointed out the relevant portion of the Constitution and she gave the kids their stuff back.

I read every piece of paper that comes home with Sweetie-Pie, check over her homework and schoolwork, and ask questions. If my questions appear dumb to the “education professionals”, I’m doing the best I can. I also keep in mind that education is not a substitute for intelligence. I used to work with people who had multiple university degrees and know that to be true from personal experience.

By jim dumond

December 9, 2005 12:34 PM | Link to this

RF.

Why is that? Because you’re (teachers in general) questioned? Do teachers feel that being challenged is impugning their integrity?

By Manny

December 9, 2005 12:38 PM | Link to this

Shell - just remember that it works both ways! You need no special training to have a child, so don’t assume that you’re always right either! I have earned several degrees and I know what I’m doing. Of course there are teachers out there who embarass the profession, but, for the most part (I hope!) we are well-equipped to do our jobs.

If and when I do try to “guide” a student (I teach at a high school), he is very quick to tell me that I’m not his father and I don’t have the right to teach him anything but biology! So, what am I to do? If I pursue the issue, you can best believe that Mommy (not Daddy!) will be calling the school the same day!

By jim dumond

December 9, 2005 12:42 PM | Link to this

Manny,

I’m afraid in the case a student told me that I’d have to make a quick comment that would stun and shut them up. I’d simply ask. Are you sure?

By RF

December 9, 2005 12:49 PM | Link to this

Jim- no, it’s not being questioned that’s the problem. We’re just battling, I think, an overall perception in society that we teach because we can’t find anything better to do, and are thus almost always wrong. I’ve seen a larger number of parents who look at schools as the enemy, believe it or not.

Shell- sounds like she was okay until she ‘crossed the line’ with the degree, huh? I’ve met a few in my time that tried to appear to be above parents, but they usually meet their match. There will always be those who make mistakes.

As a side note, your grammar here tends to make me think you are perhaps more educated than you think. I’m always amazed at the bad spelling and grammar supposed professionals use.

By RF

December 9, 2005 12:51 PM | Link to this

Manny- guiding can become interfering very quickly, and kids will get an attitude when you single them out. One-on-one tends to be much more successful. It’s all about our attitude and approach. When confronted, the kids will throw it right back at us.

By jim dumond

December 9, 2005 01:03 PM | Link to this

RF,

I certainly hope the grammar comment was directed at Shell. Because I am the worlds worst speller and the only learnin I’s got’s since high school is reading extensively and 40 years at the school of hard knocks (SHK) I’m not aware of any degree’s available from there and not too sure one ever graduates.

By Amazed (Independent Woman)

December 9, 2005 01:07 PM | Link to this

Another Teacher,

It doesn’t “Always” come from home. I’m responding to why some black children may feel that the white teachers do not care about them or has a negative perception of their abilities.

When I was a little girl in the late 70’s I would always go to the grocery store and other shopping places with my mother on Saturdays. We would be followed around by store security. I lived in a 90% white community. My mother would always explain to my sister and I never to touch anything or put our hands inside of our pockets while inside the store. She wasn’t afraid that we would steal anything, she was afraid that store security would say that we had taken something. She never said anything about white or black people. I was raised in a multicultural family and in the 70’s two of my uncles were married to white women. One of my aunts never traveled to the south until the 80’s.

I noticed as a child, that we were the only people being followed around the store. I also noticed that the white sales people, ignored my mother when asked for assistance. I found out later that they didn’t think we could afford to shop in such stores. We were dressed appropriately, not that it should matter.

This kind of attitudes is not as bad as the 70’s, but it still exist.

Some have never had close contact with anyone white outside of school. They don’t see you on their streets, at church or other functions they may attend. That’s why diverse communities are important to me.

It’s the same for white children, my daughters friend had apprehensions the first time she stayed over night at my house. I also knew when I met her parents, that they were a rare breed.

When you say things, like it comes from at home - you are dead wrong. African American parents are not hold cult meetings, to tell their children that white people do not care about them. Believe it or not, the last thing blacks talk about at home are “white” people. Nor are they saying, don’t trust white teachers, they don’t love you.

So you can stop pushing the agenda, that it is taught in the home.

By jim dumond

December 9, 2005 01:07 PM | Link to this

RF, More evidence of how deceiving perception can be.

By Shell

December 9, 2005 01:10 PM | Link to this

Believe me, Manny, I don’t assume that I’m right every time. I’m old enough to know better. I do, however, have the attitude that by virtue of being the parent I outrank the teacher. If I ask a question, I expect an answer, not a dismissal. When Sweetie-Pie started school, I explained to her that the teacher is in charge of the classroom and the Principal is in charge of the school. As long as they are being fair, do as they say. If she thinks they aren’t being fair, she should tell me and her mother about it. We’ll take it from there. If I go to the teacher or Principal and ask about it, I expect them to explain the situation, not tell me it’s their party and they’ll do what they want, which has been tried.

In saying all this, I want to make clear that I don’t care for parents who assume that their little darling is always right. You must take the time to learn and know how children act and why they do what they do, especially your own. Children do things without knowing why because they haven’t learned how to analyze their own behavior. (For that matter, a great many adults never learn how to, either.) It’s up to the parents to see it and be able to say, “She’s mad because of A, so she’s reacting by doing B, which is affecting the completely unrelated C.” Sometimes you have to correct their behavior without being able to fully explain what and why because they lack the capacity to understand it. But you try to explain it anyway. That’s how they learn to do it themselves.

My sympathies on having to put up with a punk in class. Along with the above about who’s in charge at school is the fact that adults are in charge of the world. When I was growing up, if I was in the wrong and an adult said, “You’re in the wrong.”, I was expected to accept that because I wasn’t an adult. Nowadays, it seems that so many are busy “empowering” children that they have forgotten that children’s power only comes from their parents, the adults.

Ah, well, as always the problem is we’re talking about human beings, the most fallible creatures on the planet.

By Shell

December 9, 2005 01:23 PM | Link to this

Thanks, RF. I went to the same schools as jim (Which reminds me, when’s the next alumni meeting, jim?), I’m just more anal about spelling and grammar. I guess I come by it natural, I’ve always been this way. I love the language, love what can be expressed (ah, nuance!), and hate to see someone try to use it who thinks they know what they’re saying, rather than knowing what they’re saying.

For Manny, I sympathize. As a manager in business, I’ve said to a few teenage boys “You’re not going to get anywhere with that attitude.” and been told “My daddy’s the only one who can say anything about my attitude!”, which I immediately follow with “OK, you’re fired. Now go home and let your daddy explain how your attitude just cost you your job.” Too bad Manny can’t do the same in his classroom.

By Manny

December 9, 2005 01:33 PM | Link to this

jim - Trust me - smart aleck answers always cross my mind, but, if I want to keep my job, it’s best they are left unsaid!!

By RF

December 9, 2005 01:36 PM | Link to this

Shell- I’ve always believed the School of Hard Knocks teaches one much more applicable knowledge than any college classroom I’ve ever been in. I think Ben Franklin said “better to be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.” I’ve met many ‘educated’ people who probably don’t have the sense to come in out of the rain.

Teachers- don’t let the pressures get you down. You do make a difference, and the struggle is worth it. Those who challenge you most can become your best if you can figure out how to reach them. The difficult kids are the ones who need your patience and effort the most.

By Manny

December 9, 2005 01:39 PM | Link to this

Shell - we agree for the most part. But, I outrank the parent in my classroom! I don’t take kindly to a parent telling me that counting tests for 40% of the grade is too much! That’s my classroom, and my decision to make. If you don’t like my grading scale - keep ‘em home!

I’ve had to speak strongly to one of my childrens’ teachers a time or two, but, I told my daughter that the teacher is in charge of the classroom. If she thought she was being mistreated, dealing with that issue was MY job - not hers. I abhor disrespectful children, and I don’t tolerate it at home or at school.

By Shell

December 9, 2005 01:53 PM | Link to this

Well said, Manny. You’re exactly right, it’s your classroom. The “40% of total grade” bit is certainly your decision to make and one I personally would not question. As said above, I won’t question the teachers as long as they’re being fair. The last straw for my sister was when my niece’s last public school teacher moved her best friend and work partner away from her and put a troublemaker in the seat, rather than separating the troublemaker from the rest of the kids. Niece’s work suffered and when Sis told the teacher it wasn’t fair to her the teacher said “Life’s not fair. She has to learn that sometime.” Sis said, “Yeah, and I’ll teach her that. In the meantime, because life itself isn’t and won’t be, that’s all the more reason for you to try to be fair.”

By Grading Should Be Standard

December 9, 2005 01:55 PM | Link to this

Manny,

Your response to the 40% grading scale being the teachers choice,is the one thing in education, I feel needs to be standardized across the state. 1:39post

I can’t understand why two teachers who teach the same course, let’s say Algebra I -would not use the same grading scale for a test.

I have two relatives, taking Algebra I - they are at the same school, but have different teachers for the same class. They were covering the same chapters, at the same time. However, one teacher counted part of the test at 40% an the other counted it as 50%.

These two young ladies missed similar questions, but one ended up with a much higher grade.

The grading scale should be standard for courses such as Math and a few others. I know that it’s hard to do it for all, but we need consistancy across the board.

If this can happen at the same school, we know that it shows disparity between other schools and school districts.

By Manny

December 9, 2005 02:00 PM | Link to this

Grading Should Be Standard - all of the teachers at my school use the EXACT SAME syllabi and grading scales for each subject area for just that reason.

By Becky

December 9, 2005 02:13 PM | Link to this

In our school system the entire faculty is told that tests can only count 25% of the total score. I don’t know if everyone sticks to it but it is one of those things that we have in writing.

By jim dumond

December 9, 2005 02:48 PM | Link to this

Shell, send an email address to dogi@mindspring.com (one I rarely use) and I’ll let you know when and where the next alumni meeting is. We generally hold one a week to discuss our newly learned lessons over a cold beverage somewhere in Gwinnett County.

Manny, wasn’t attempting to be a smart a#$ simply pointing out a method of making the youngster think. And man, Wished I’d of had teachers like you in school. Since I generally did well on tests, just couldn’t find time for the homework since most of my homework evolved around a working dairy farm, if you know what I mean.

By oldteacher

December 9, 2005 03:08 PM | Link to this

The only place that we are required to be fair is in public school. Of course I know that all teachers are not.

By fk

December 9, 2005 04:24 PM | Link to this

Teachers teach. Because a teacher has daily contact with a student, a teacher touches a student’s life, and thus helps to shape it. However, it is not up to a teacher to transform a life. There are teachers who have the ability to transform an attitude, and therefore, change a life. That is a gift, not an expectation nor a requirement. The student who gets a teacher who can do that is most fortunate.

By David200

December 9, 2005 04:32 PM | Link to this

To Grading Should Be Standard:

I understand your frustration. I worry about that same thing every day I teach. In general though, it doesn’t matter. Before I got into teaching, I managed businesses. I never, once, in 25 years asked a prospective employee what their GPA was. It’s irrelevant. It only is used to add strings and ribbons to the gown during the high school graduation. In the past, it was important to graduate from high school. Today, a high school diploma is only a start. Concern about a high school GPA is similar to a high school jock wearing his letter-man jacket on a college campus. Nobody cares other than the parents of the kids. I had one mother tell me that my grades were going to keep her daughter off the honor role. She wasn’t concerned that her daughter did not have a clue about the subject I was teacher; she was only concerned about the grade.

That being said, it is critically important to three people: The valedictorian, the salutatorian, and the third honor graduate of the graduating class. I stay awake some nights worrying that my grading might make a material difference in selecting those three students. I’ve seen it happen with one student getting a strict grading teacher and another one getting a teacher who gave everyone in the class an “A.� Number 6 jumped all the way to 3, and 3 beat out 1 and 2. One and 2 had teacher parents, and they just silently fumed.

And while we’re on the subject of Escalante, did you know when he had trouble with a student he would call the student out into the hall and say, “FLY!” By that, he meant for the kid to leave and go somewhere else. Escalante didn’t care where the kid went and what the kid did; all Escalante wanted was for the kid to get out of his class and stop bothering him. Try that in a Georgia classroom (how about Gwinnett?) and see what happens to that teacher.

By M. Dink,

December 12, 2005 12:47 PM | Link to this

I am a teacher and proud of it, I change lives. I am not a miracle worker. I care for all of my students, I teach and I preach. Education is power, poor preparation leads to poor occupations. We cannot save them all, for anyone to believe that means that they live in a fantasy world. Teacher keep you head up, take it to the max everyday, inspire the desire to learn and do your best. That is all we can do.

By M. Dink,

December 12, 2005 12:48 PM | Link to this

I am a teacher and proud of it, I change lives. I am not a miracle worker. I care for all of my students, I teach and I preach. Education is power, poor preparation leads to poor occupations. We cannot save them all, for anyone to believe that means that they live in a fantasy world. Teacher keep you head up, take it to the max everyday, inspire the desire to learn and do your best. That is all we can do.

By kaa

December 12, 2005 03:29 PM | Link to this

“Stand and Deliver” was a dramatization. It took Mr. Escalante 5 years to get those dramatic results. He had the support of his principal, the parents and most importantly the students. If the “seed of transformation” is already planted in the student then the job of a teacher is to water it and help it grow.