Get Schooled

By ESOL

December 6, 2005 01:06 PM | Link to this

I’m not sure that a Christmas tree or ornaments are inappropriate in a classroom but probably unnecessary. How to they encourage learning? On the other hand, if people are not allowed to greet others with a genial “Merry Christmas”, I think we’ve gone a bit far.

By DT

December 6, 2005 01:10 PM | Link to this

We have to make sure that nobody is offended. I could only imagine having this conversation 20 yrs ago about how in 2005 we were not going to be able to say Merry Christmas in school. People would have never believed. It is a crazy society we life in today. I only can imagine how it is going to be in another 20yrs. It all started when we made is so everybody plays in Pee Wee baseball.

By Robert

December 6, 2005 01:58 PM | Link to this

Good grief! As a science high school teacher there is so many more issues for me to be concerned about. I honestly feel that this is a low low priority on my list. Geez, I hardly have time to cover the required content much less have time to decorate my room!

Let the schools focus on education. Let the churches focus on religon. Let the parents focus on parenting to include values, respect, responsibility, discipline, etc. If we each do our job then things would work out - right?

By stacey

December 6, 2005 02:02 PM | Link to this

I feel that it is ridiculous not to allow Christmas to be acknowledge in the class room and schools, where are all of these crazy people when Halloween items are placed all over the school, what a mix up society that we live in.

By stacey

December 6, 2005 02:03 PM | Link to this

I feel that it is ridiculous not to allow Christmas to be acknowledge in the class room or schools, where are all of these crazy people when Halloween items are placed all over the school, what a mix up society that we live in.

By Erin

December 6, 2005 02:19 PM | Link to this

Some teachers aren’t allowed to wish their students a merry Christmas? Come on, people. Where’s the common sense?

I’m all for including those of other faiths and not making others feel uncomfortable, but there’s got to be room for a compromise somewhere.

I can’t imagine being a kid and not having some type of holiday decorations in the classroom. We always did when I was in a metro Atlanta school system in the 80s and early 90s.

By jim dumond

December 6, 2005 02:29 PM | Link to this

So Patti,

What would be so wrong with schools recognizing that this is a holiday season for many religions? To single one out does infact show a rather narrow minded perspective, whether it be singled out for celebration or for prohibiting the display and celebration.

For those that may think I’m taking a P/C position on this issue. I’m not. I simply don’t believe government has the right nor does the majority to trample the rights of the minority.

By V for Vendetta

December 6, 2005 02:29 PM | Link to this

I think this is fantastic. In an effort to make the world more PC and equal, may I offer a few suggestions… In fact, lets abolish everything controversial. First up: the dress codes. Lets make school uniforms mandatory across the State. Next lets get rid of team sports, since they exclude the fat, the lazy, and the untalented. Oh, while we are at it, lets get rid of honors societies as well, they exclude the unmotivated, the disruptive, or the just plain dumb. I would be remiss if I didnt mention getting rid of math, because some kids find it hard. We certainly cant mention God, gods, saints, sinners, demons, devils, The Devil, The Holy Spirit, Jesus, anyone who looks like Jesus, any Latinos named Jesus, or any other religious references. Girls named Mary will have to change their names and school absences will no longer be excused for religious holidays.
After all that, the government can put barcodes on our necks, herd us together like sheep, and then decide what is appropriate for us to do, think, and say. Evolution or Creationism? Neither. I choose Totalitarianism!

By Mike

December 6, 2005 02:34 PM | Link to this

Just another example of minority rule. No different than having 4,000 people at a high school football game - 3,999 want the Lord’s prayer recited and 1 does not. So we capitulate and accomodate the 1 at the expense of the 3,999.

By jim dumond

December 6, 2005 02:38 PM | Link to this

yep mike, thats the way it works.

May you never be the one.

Merry Christmas.

By high school teacher

December 6, 2005 02:39 PM | Link to this

I guess this means I shouldn’t be playing Christmas, oops, I mean, holiday music in the background while my kids are writing? :) Merry Christmas to all.

By Meg

December 6, 2005 02:40 PM | Link to this

There’s certainly an anti-Christian bias. My three kids told me last year (we’re home schooling this year) that they felt left out because they studied Hannukah, Ramadan and Kwanzaa but nothing was said about Christmas. So they’re not trying to include everyone, they’re trying to exclude Christianity. It’s not political correctness, it’s religious eradication. Also, if there’s one religion the government is trying to suppress over all others, that should be an endorsement of that religion as the true one, since they fear it most.

By NotMyProblem

December 6, 2005 02:46 PM | Link to this

jim dumond - whose rights are being trampled by having Christmas decorations in the classroom? Nobody’s. We have a right to free speech, but nobody has a right to not be offended. I see nothing wrong with having different kinds of decorations in the classroom that reflect real holidays that occur this time of year - Hannukah and Christmas, specifically. I don’t include Kwanzaa in that because it’s a made-up holiday and isn’t legitimate. There are no rights trampled by the display of religious or holiday decorations.

By Patti Ghezzi

December 6, 2005 02:54 PM | Link to this

Hey Jim, I’m just the blogmistress here. I have no opinion to share. As is often the case with education issues, I can see both sides. If I were a teacher, I would probably be too busy trying to do everything teachers are supposed to do to worry about Christmas.

Patti

By oldteacher

December 6, 2005 03:13 PM | Link to this

I just don’t want to have to stay late and take down the tree and all the decorations.

By MMM

December 6, 2005 03:13 PM | Link to this

The actual rule, (and I spent some time studing it in order to make a proper lease putting a (public)charter school in a church building) is that religious symbols may not be PERMANENTLY mounted on the walls of a classroom. This does not preclude them being put up temporarily as part of the study of any of the religions or cultures.

A think we have gone overboard on the “touchiness” that we display over any acknowledement of religion or cultural differences. Our school’s population is half refugee and about 35% muslim (yes, in a church building). Before we go too far feeling that we are pursecuting Christians, please be aware that we are so oblivious to the Muslim religious celebrations that our district required ITBS testing during Ramadan. This resulted in 4th graders fasting during testing week.

We may grip over “happy Holidays”, but can you imagine what would happen to a schoolboard that decided to start the schoolyear the first of September to make parents happy and then made “Winter Break” be the 2nd and 3rd week of January to have equal length semesters?

Our school has a study unit on Who we are? which invariablly leads to discussion of all the celebrations. And no, we do not do Halloween (which can be scary to children who have seen real war), instead we do UN day as a “Dress-up” event about a week later.

By NotMyProblem

December 6, 2005 03:25 PM | Link to this

MMM - what is “UN day”? And while I sympathize with the muslim children who had to fast during the testing week, the fact is that 83% of the people in this nation identify themselves as Christian, so Christmas is going to be much more relevant to most people than Ramadan, and it isn’t any real surprise that most people are oblivious to the muslim holidays.

By jim dumond

December 6, 2005 03:25 PM | Link to this

I know I’ve opened a can of worms here because people are so adamant about their religion. All I’m saying is that this world would be a much better place if we lived our lifes by the way of Christ’s teaching of love. In my opinion that love includes respect. So if you wish to post hate towards me for attempting to live the life God intended, knock yourselves out and have at it. Then have yourself a Very Merry Christmas.

Patti, many elementary teachers do include holiday themes in their teachings. This in my opinion is a positive thing and I’m by no means advocating they not. Only that it be done with respect for others that may or may not believe as the teacher does.

By OldLady

December 6, 2005 03:30 PM | Link to this

To Not My Problem - you don’t include Kwanzaa because it’s “made up” and not a “real” holiday, but do you even know WHY it was “made up”?? To combat the incessant commercialism of Christmas!

“Timed to serve as an alternative to the growing commercialism of Christmas, it was founded in 1966 by Ron Karenga (Ron Everett). Kwanzaa is this text will be bolded NOT a religious holiday, but a cultural one, a syncretic festival, based on various elements of the first harvest celebrations widely celebrated in Africa…”

Now don’t get me wrong. I celebrate Christmas with my loved ones as Christians do, but don’t poo-poo the different. Several of my friend celebrate Christmas AND Kwanzaa to teach their children selflessness and giving and focus on family, harvest and spirit instead of Santa, Rudolph and presents. You must admit the true meaning of Christmas is gone. If your family managed to preserve it and celebrate Christ’s birth and the spirit of Christianity, then Hallelujah! You’d be a rare breed indeed, my friend. On Christmas, my husband, my two children & I will exchange ONE gift with a limit of $20, then spend the rest of the day at a domestic violence shelter playing with the kids there. I’m not a “religious fanatic”. I just think sales, decorations, and such are taken entirely out of proportion in these times.

Merry Christmas and Happy Kwanzaa!

By annoyed

December 6, 2005 03:58 PM | Link to this

Anyone who thinks Christians are being persecuted in public schools in Georgia really has a victim complex. Just try being the ONLY non-Christian child in your entire grade, as my 8 year old was last year. Try explaining to your 8 year old why her classmates taunt her, telling her she is going to hell because she doesn’t share their beliefs. Try comforting her when she comes home in tears after her “Christian” classmates have excluded her from recess play because she doesn’t profess a belief in Christ.

By chuck

December 6, 2005 04:03 PM | Link to this

I don’t decorate for Christmas because I don’t have time. I talk about it some and I wish my students a “Merry Christmas”. I don’t have any Jewish students this year. When I do, I talk about Hannukah, briefly. I’ve never had a Muslim student, but if I did, I would probably try to learn about his holidays and talk about that too. My students know that I am a Christian, but they also know that I don’t try to push that on to them. When they ask me questions about my faith, I answer them truthfully. I don’t try to take up much class time with that, but sometimes it intertwines with what I am teaching and I expand on the topic in those instances. Every time that something comes up and I tell them about my belief, I always remind them that they are not required to believe what I believe and that they should discuss the issue with their parents. I think this is the lawful, common sense approach to religion in the classroom in this time of political correctness.

That said, we should NEVER have gotten to this point in America. The establishment clause was NEVER intended to reach as far as it has into the personal religious lives of Americans. By definition, an individual, EVEN ONE WHO WORKS FOR THE STATE, cannot violate the establishment clause which states: “CONGRESS shall make no laws concerning the establishment of a religion or the free exercise thereof.” The last time I looked, teachers are not Congress. Saying Merry Christmas does NOT ESTABLISH AN OFFICIAL NATIONAL RELIGION.

By jim dumond

December 6, 2005 04:12 PM | Link to this

Chuck, I commend you for your approach to a very sensitive issue whith your students.

As for your argument. Take it to the supremes.

By NotMyProblem

December 6, 2005 04:15 PM | Link to this

OldLady - if Kwanzaa were invented to fight the commercialism of Christmas, why is it a strictly black holiday? Wouldn’t selflessness and giving and focus on family, harvest and spirit spread across all races and cultures and not just blacks? And forgive me, but I seriously doubt 99.9% of the blacks in America know anything about or give a hill of beans about Africa or what their culture is, other than the fact that somewhere way way back in their ancestory they may have come from there. I applaud you for your family’s Christmas tradition of focus on giving more than receiving, and I too have been blessed with a family more focused on the meaning of Christmas than the material things given. But I’d be willing to bet that MOST (not all) families who celebrate Kwanzaa don’t know diddly about Africa or their culture, and simply do it because it’s an excuse to have a blacks-only holiday.

By Sarah

December 6, 2005 04:26 PM | Link to this

I have such strong feelings about this issue that I often find myself at a loss for words to express myself. I cannot imagine that my saying “Merry Christmas” to a non-Christian is violating their rights, or is truly (come on, now, be honest) offensive. Neither do I feel that my rights will be violated and I will not be able to sleep at night if my neighbor wishes me a “Happy Hannukah”. I read an excellent editorial which addresses this issue SO well (http://news.yahoo.com/s/usatoday/20051205/cmusatoday/faithinfilmwhynot;ylt=AuQoptbJaU9JkgDsYhCJ56B2YD;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl). All of our religions urge us to love one another - to be kind, patient, humble. I almost said “accepting”, but the world today has changed the meaning of that word. Anymore it seems that people equate “accepting” and “tolerance” with agreement. I can accept my Muslim neighbor’s belief in Allah, tolerate that crazy Californian’s efforts to tackle the Pledge of Alegiance with the Supreme Court, without agreeing with them. Why am I not as a Christian afforded the same “tolerance”?

By worlddoomed

December 6, 2005 04:27 PM | Link to this

So now they want to take the “Christ” out of Christmas. So sad, God should just wipe the earth clean…and start ALL over again..for the second time…..

By SET

December 6, 2005 05:02 PM | Link to this

There is no problem, except with some crazy PC administrator who the school board should summarily remove (or demote to teaching).

Xmas is a secular holiday. Even the Supreme Court is closed for it. (State and Federal).

If somebody complains about Merry Xmas just tell them it’s secular Xmas. A Tradition.

And we don’t want to hear anything about Kawanza or the rest of it. Those are cult holidays. We don’t celebrate cult/religious holidays.

We have always celebrated Xmas. We always will. Welcome to America! If somebody doesn’t like our national holidays they can sit home and cry about it. The planes are flying and they can spend Xmas in Canada or Acapulco or somewhere else and deal with it there.

By oldteacher

December 7, 2005 08:06 AM | Link to this

Demoted to teaching! Wow, that really makes me feel worthwhile. I devoted myself to teaching and have turned down promotions because I want to stay in the classroom. Did I make a mistake? No, I still have students coming back to visit when I have their kids in the classroom telling me how much they appreciated what I did for them.

If you use the word Xmas, then you have made it a secular holiday.

My position has always been that I don’t discuss sex, politics, or religion with my students.

By praying4u

December 7, 2005 08:10 AM | Link to this

Worlddoomed, It’s Fundies like you scare that really the hell out of me. You’d willingly destroy all life on this planet, believing you’re doing Gods work. Hey fool, he won’t need your help.

Sarah What’s this? You can’t suffer a little intolerance as a Christian?

Remember Christ’s suffering dear. Yours doesn’t even begin to compare.

SET “We don’t celebrate cult/religious holidays�?

Excuse me. Just exactly what was the Christian movement a couple thousand years ago?

Notmyproblem, “I too have been blessed with a family more focused on the meaning of Christmas than the material things given.�?

Too bad you weren’t blessed with understanding and compassion for your fellow man

WOW, so much love from these professed Christians at a time of year they celebrate a miracle birth and express their love by the giving of gifts. How unfortunate they fail to see the true meaning of the holiday. I’ll pray for each of you that you may be granted the gift of love. Love for all of mankind, not just your friends and families or those of like thinking.

I love you. May you have a blessed holiday.

By Karen Armsby

December 7, 2005 08:22 AM | Link to this

The message behind Merry Christmas is Peace On Earth, Goodwill toward Men, it’s a message of Loving your Neighbor as Yourself, of Doing unto Others as You Would have them Do unto You, of Laying your Life Down for the Salvation of Others. Jesus was the ultimate model of altruism, whether you believe in his divinity or not. Altruism is a good trait, so what is their reasoning behind the “offended” statement? Ask them!

We should counter the administrators (or any other PC nitwit) by asking WHY they are ‘offended’ by our “Merry Christmas,” ask them WHY they oppose all of the positive sentiments that Merry Christmas represents. Educate them to this fact; most of the world’s religions and cultures promote these same positive ideals in their own words and greetings. We are just using the vernacular of our culture when we say “Merry Christmas.”

By D

December 7, 2005 08:26 AM | Link to this

Teddy Roosevelt made a statement quite a long time ago and said that the downfall of the United States would come from people from other countries coming to the US and instead of joining the US customs and beliefs, remaining a part of their county and wanting the US to recognize their beliefs. While it is true that the basis for our society came from various other countries, we were still founded on Democracy, not Democrats and Republicans, but freedom to worship. That freedom was God, not any other. Christmas was a part of that freedom for as long as we could imagine in our country. I am of the belief that when in Rome, do as the Romans. Hey, this is not Rome, so do as the Americans do by leaving Christmas alone, or go back to Rome or wherever you originated.

By tolerate

December 7, 2005 08:31 AM | Link to this

Wow, I’m from out of town and I can’t believe how narrow minded so many of you are!! Just because the ‘majority’ is Christian does not make it okay to ignore everybody else. Jeeesh. Some of you really frighten me. Let’s educate students to multiple views. They don’t have to adopt them, but they sure shouldn’t be ignorant of them. Good grief.

By iamateacher

December 7, 2005 08:46 AM | Link to this

Out of town? What town are you out of? I think that there are folks here from all over.

By Lucretia

December 7, 2005 09:01 AM | Link to this

Hey guys, Without Christ there would be no Christmas. Without Christmas there would be no holiday to celebrate. What is wrong with America. Is it the land of free speech or just free speech for certain people.

By chuck

December 7, 2005 09:15 AM | Link to this

praying4u, It’s liberals like you that scare me. Like so many others, you took what someone said and completely changed it to mean what you wanted it to mean.

Here is what she said:God should just wipe the earth clean…and start ALL over again..for the second time

Here is what you said she said: Worlddoomed, It’s Fundies like you scare that really the hell out of me. You’d willingly destroy all life on this planet, believing you’re doing Gods work. Hey fool, he won’t need your help. SHE DIDN’T SAY ANYTHING ABOUT HER DESTROYING THE WORLD OR HELPING GOD DESTROY IT.

btw, Calling her a fool truly exemplified Christ.

By Dan

December 7, 2005 09:15 AM | Link to this

Tolerate you can and should educate children on multiple views, while at the same time celebrate and acknowledge the view that happens to be part of the heritage not only of the majority but of this country. To point out other viewpoints while suppressing your own, implies your own is not as important.
You Say students don’t have to adopt other view points and you are correct, nor to people of other faiths have to adopt christianity, but they should acknowledge and understand that it is significant part of the culture and history of this country and to be insulted by it is not only ignorant but arrogant The former Soviet eastern bloc countries claim to be mostly atheist, but now they are free from communist suppression you will find tributes to their christian past everywhere you look particularly around Christmas time.

By Teacher, Too

December 7, 2005 10:02 AM | Link to this

I am not Christian, but I play instrumental Christmas music in my class. I watch the classic Christmas movies and t.v. shows. I have Christmas trivia in my class for students who want to participate. Granted, it’s about t.v. shows and carols, but it’s fun and it makes the day a little more amusing. Now, why do I, a non-Christian, do this? Simply, because I enjoy the season. I can appreciate and respect the beauty of another religion. I can, as a non-Christian, appreciate its lesser message of love and faith and giving of spirit and generousity of heart, without believing in Christ as the son of G-d. (If I were Christian, I would certainly think the primary message of Christmas would be the miracle of his birth…)

By Karen Armsby

December 7, 2005 10:10 AM | Link to this

Teacher Too, I agree with you except for the fact that the major (not lesser) message of Christmas IS love and faith and giving of spirit and generosity of heart. Thank you for your appreciation and God Bless you in your season of celebrating this shared spirit that should unite us all, and not cause divisions among us.

By popdaddy57

December 7, 2005 10:33 AM | Link to this

I agree with “tolerate.” Let’s educate students to multiple views. They shouldn’t be ignorant of them. Let’s start by teaching Intelligent Design as well as Evolution.

By Connie

December 7, 2005 10:51 AM | Link to this

I agree with V for Venedetta. School uniforms for all and abolish ALL holidays and celebrations. No more New Years, M.L.K, Presidents Day, Valentines Day, Ash Wednesday, GirlScout Week, Keep America Beautiful Day coat drives and toy drives at schools. You get the idea. I am a Christian and lets face it. The christmas promoted in society has nothing to do religion. It’s only a promotion to spend money on tons of things we don’t need.

By another teacher

December 7, 2005 10:52 AM | Link to this

Not true that without Christ there would be no Christmas. Although we think we are celebrating the birth of Christ, most theologians believe that He was not really born in December. We celebrate in the winter because most civilizations held a winter celebration. It has to do with the Winter Solstace.

By Greg

December 7, 2005 11:01 AM | Link to this

I have had enough of being politically correct. As an American I have the right to do as I please as long as I do not harm another. If you are offended by “Merry Christmas you have bigger issues. Do you drive down the road and stop at house and say you are offended by someones Christmas light? Granted some can be pretty tacky but most children just like the lights. The teachers have enough to deal with in educating our children. They are under paid and over worked. I say let them decorate their classroom as they like (Christmas, Hanukkah, whatever). Alternate decorations might spur discussion amoungst the students about the differences in the various clutures. They might even learn something. It is school. Knowledge is the only road to true freedom.

Greg

By Cris

December 7, 2005 11:29 AM | Link to this

PC has gotten a little out of control. People should be allowed to celebrate this time of year any way they want. To me this will always be Christmas. A time of year where we wish our fellow man a prosperous new year and goodwill. I think is ironic that the person spelling Christmas “xmas” trying to make a point by taking Christ out of the mix hasnt done their homework. The X is the greek letter for “Chi” which is also the Greek symbol for Christ, Jesus Christ. So by spelling Christmas “Xmas” your still keeping Christ, as it should be. So next time if you want to make a point. Do your homework! Lets get over this pettiness. I believe that this season celebrates the birth of Christ. Dont get offended if someone wishes you a merry christmas. I dot when someone wishes me a Happy Halloween and I dont believe in Holloween.

By jim dumond

December 7, 2005 11:31 AM | Link to this

Karen, I concur and To sum it all up.

While we celebrate the messanger, leave us not forget the message.

By V for Vendetta

December 7, 2005 11:35 AM | Link to this

It’s frightening how narrow minded some people are, but on the flip side, it’s frightening how furiously some people defend their beliefs. It truly points to one simple fact- religion very well could be the root of all evil. Don’t believe me? Jihads, The Crusades, Holy Wars, forcing races of people to convert to certain ideals held by a majority, etc. 2000 years ago, people were convinced that Zeus was the king of the gods. What will people say about us in 2000 years? Now watch as a bunch of people prove my point for me by saying “I need Jesus”.

By Amazed (Independent Woman)

December 7, 2005 12:32 PM | Link to this

How many of you people would be offended, if the entire country shut down for another non Christian holiday/celebration?

You need to look at the shoe, as if it were on the other foot.

Patti,
I saw the Knights of the South Bronx’s with my 10 year old. I have been teaching her how to play chess for about 2 years, she is more motivated than ever to become a much better player after seeing the movie last night. It came on a bit late, so she was up way past her bed time.

If a school is going to celebrate a Christian holiday, then they must acknowledge other religious holidays with the same enthusiasm.

By DT

December 7, 2005 01:26 PM | Link to this

Independent, We do shut down for a nonchristian Holiday. We call it Martin Luther King Day

By oldteacher

December 7, 2005 01:32 PM | Link to this

Don’t forget Labor Day.

By DT

December 7, 2005 01:32 PM | Link to this

I think what we should do is not be able to wish anybody happy Martin Luther King Day. Might offend somebody. That seems ridiculous to me. Maybe we shouln’t observe Vetrans Day becasue it might offend people form other Countries that our soldiers faught against. Hey lets stop having fireworks on the 4th of July because the British peolple in America might be offended. What a Joke. This is all going to catch up with us someday.

By MMM

December 7, 2005 01:34 PM | Link to this

Notmyproblem— UN day is “United Nations” day, one of those little known official days well below “pick your nose” day on people’s radar. At the International Community School we have about 40 countries represented in the student population, so we use it as the one day a year where the kids don’t wear uniforms. They can dress in their native dress, or something from a special region (like cowboy or Mardi Graw). Then we do a Parade of Nations around the campus carrying different flags and sing songs for parents. The parents are encouraged to come and tables are set up on different countries and the adults eat different foods and dance together. It’s great for pictures, great for inviting potential donors to (we are a charter school), and the poor kids whose family doesn’t know about Halloween and doesn’t have the money to buy a special costume generally do have native dress.

Regarding the comment about Christmas being more relevant for most people, I don’t dissagree with that, BUT to say that we are persecuting Christians by not having a christmas tree in a taxpayer funded building is a huge distance from what happens in other countries.

We have Sudanese Christians in our School that have had family members killed because they were Christian. We have Bosnian Muslims with family members killed because they were muslim. I have had many muslims tell me Merry Christmas because they know I am Christian, and I respect that there will be more headscarfs and absenses the day of Eid. My heart goes out to the only non Christian child in the earlier post who was ridiculed by her classmates—-this should be viewed as a bullying incident.

By Amazed (Independent Woman)

December 7, 2005 01:39 PM | Link to this

You know that I mean other “Religious” holidays. Don’t act, dumb.

By oldteacher

December 7, 2005 01:48 PM | Link to this

We can’t read your mind.

By DT

December 7, 2005 01:56 PM | Link to this

We are talking about offending people with our holidays then why can’t we talk about those other “offensive” holidays. Not like the one where we spread joy and give gifts. Because forget about that one because that one offends people.

By MMM

December 7, 2005 02:03 PM | Link to this

So who finds my discription of UN day offensive?

By oldteacher

December 7, 2005 02:49 PM | Link to this

I love your description of UN day.

By SET

December 7, 2005 03:10 PM | Link to this

When I referred to Christmas as Xmas it was only a typing shortcut. I had no intention of changing the name of the national holiday.

For the record I am an athiest. - Hope I spelled that right…

I don’t intend to shove (my) religion down other people’s throats. I’m not really bothered by the “In God We Trust” printed on the rapidly depreciating US Currency. I have more pressing problems like the mental patients crossing the street talking to themselves as I walk to work.

Christmas is a traditional Holiday where I take off from work, get the property taxes paid, work on my income taxes, plan next year’s budget, and go out a lot with friends and family to nice restaurants.

When somebody says Merry Christmas to me I get a nice warm feeling and remember I need to go to the internet and shop for friends and family and myself.

It is a national holiday. Religion is nice sometimes but optional.

I don’t celebrate Kawanza which I consider a poor joke. The other religious events I’d consider depending on the menu. Actually if the BBQ, Ham & Mac and Cheese, etc. is there I might even go to a Kawanza party.

So I really believe at my old age that our national holidays should be safely observed even in these government nuthouses we call schools. Leave the kids and teachers alone who want to put up ornaments on a tree, etc. It’s a National holiday and there are Xmas tree stamps. If the Post Office can do it the 8th grade can do it.

Merry Christmas all!!

And Patty, thanks for the blog! I hope you enjoy reading it as much as we all do.

By jennifer

December 7, 2005 03:19 PM | Link to this

A Christmas tree is a Pagen ritual, not Christian and Halloween isn’t evil. The fact anyone believes it is is pretty pathetic. Halloween originated to celebrate the end of the summer harvest and to mark the new year. It’s also a Pagen custom.

I don’t believe in God but I also do not see any reason to not tell someone Merry Christmas.

In school we used to decorate our classroom and our entire class would make decorations to put up. It was a great time and I loved it. Now everything is so PC that I’m offended by the PCness of it. It’s ridiculous. Happy Holidays, Merry Christmas - who cares?

There’s an old song called “There’s No Place Like Home for the Holidays and no one was offended then. Why are they now acting like it’s a new thing to say it?

I have Muslim and Jewish friends who wish me Merry Christmas. They also put up Christmas trees for their families to enjoy because they are not of the same faith.

Annoyed - I am so very sorry your child was ridiculed at school for being Non-Christian. Yes, I have to admit that my distaste for religion comes from the very same thing. The so-called religious folks are the first ones to line up and cast a stone if you do not follow their beliefs. I hope your daughter is able to work through this and I hope it only makes her a stronger person.

The fact that Christians think they are being persecuted in this country cracks me up. Apparently they aren’t happy with not paying taxes on their huge churches, blocking up the streets on Sundays so they can attend church, demanding that sex education not be taught in school because they have the unfounded belief that it will cause more sex, hiring off-duty police officers to close down the roads in front of their churches so they can leave church. Hey, if god wanted you to leave the parking lot at noon wouldn’t he provide a space for you to fit into on the road? And now they’re ticked off because their President’s Christmas Card said Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas. There is simply no pleasing them. Oh, did I mention they want in my womb, too? Of course, they only care about the fetus until it’s born and after that, hey, you’re on your own. It’s not really pro-life, it’s anti-choice and they should be ashamed of themselves.

By Karen Armsby

December 7, 2005 03:33 PM | Link to this

Jennifer, In other words Bah, Humbug!

By Amazed (Independent Woman)

December 7, 2005 03:37 PM | Link to this

OK Jennifer, I believe in God. But, there is so much truth to what you just said.

Amen, Sister

By jennifer

December 7, 2005 03:39 PM | Link to this

Not bah, humbug really. I still enjoy the holidays and I enjoy seeing the decorations and watching my kids open their presents on Christmas Day. I just don’t have the same belief as many. I don’t believe Jesus was the Messiah, I don’t believe he was born from immaculate conception, and I don’t believe in god. I do believe Jesus existed, though, but he was just a dude like any other guy.

By jennifer

December 7, 2005 03:49 PM | Link to this

I read an article in the Seattle Times that was saying a school had to relocate their ‘giving tree’ after a parent complained. Now, let me explain. The giving tree was a spiral, lighted tree with mittens on it that had ideas for gifts that children could purchase for those less fortunate. Now the tree has been put in the office out of viewing. So, they no longer have a giving tree but a giving counter as they put it.

This is completely ridiculous. As much as I do not believe in god I would never, ever complain over such a thing. It makes me feel bad inside that someone would complain. That’s pretty darn pathetic. Giving to the less fortunate is always a wonderful thing to do and I think it was a great idea for the school to put up the tree with the gift ideas on it.

I hope the parent who complained is happy with themselves. None of my Muslim or Jewish friends would ever do such a thing. I may be an Atheist but I’m not cold-hearted.

By jennifer

December 7, 2005 04:26 PM | Link to this

I just read Cynthia Tucker’s article today and I am convinced the end of the world is today. I actually agree with her!

By MMM

December 7, 2005 04:41 PM | Link to this

I think that our earlier topic about the 3% of troublemakers spoiling things for everyone else applies here. I’m refering to 1.) self-proclaimed Christians who aren’t willing to allow anyone to say “Holiday” just because that person isn’t sure of the person’s religious loyalties 2.) a parent so “anti-tree” that they won’t allow children to learn generosity and 3.) a school where the 8th graders were allowed to pick on another child for being of a different religion.

I am forever grateful for the many people of many religions at my children’s school, who are committeed to working together to create a peaceful harmonious future for all our children.

By jennifer

December 7, 2005 04:48 PM | Link to this

I would like to point out that the anti-tree issue wasn’t caused by the children. It was caused by the so-called adults who are their parents. I think they should be ashamed of themselves. Hopefully they will never be one of those many needy families.

By Taxpayer

December 8, 2005 08:15 AM | Link to this

Let’s all just celebrate Christmahannukwanzakasolstice. Did I leave anyone out?

By Karen Armsby

December 8, 2005 08:34 AM | Link to this

While I will continue to wish people a Merry Christmas, the anti-Happy Holidays people need to look at the definition of HOLIDAY as Merriam Webster defines it!

hol·i·day Pronunciation: ‘hä-l&-“dA, British usually ‘hä-l&-dE Function: noun Etymology: Middle English, from Old English hAligdæg, from hAlig holy + dæg day 1 : HOLY DAY 2 : a day on which one is exempt from work; specifically : a day marked by a general suspension of work in commemoration of an event 3 chiefly British : a period of relaxation : VACATION — often used in the phrase on holiday; often used in plural

The very FIRST definition is HOLY DAY! And the definition of HOLY DAY is:

Function: noun : a day set aside for special religious observance

Therefore, wishing anyone Happy Holidays is actually wishing them Happy Holy Days, and you can choose whatever Holy means to you in your religion (or lack thereof)!

Merry Christmas and Happy Holdays!

By V for Vendetta

December 8, 2005 09:22 AM | Link to this

I think the solution is to get rid of the whole tree thing. Maybe a Christmas Shrub would be more accepted. Trees are intimidating, how about a Christmas Vine? Or maybe a Christmas Carrot? The sad thing is, if I wrapped lights around ANYTHING, say road kill for instance, and called it a “Christmas Possum”, people would be less offended by the dead animal than they would be by the word “Christmas”.

By MMM

December 8, 2005 09:43 AM | Link to this

Jennifer—all three of the instances of bad behavior I identified in my remarks were by Adults!

By SUZAN

December 8, 2005 11:51 AM | Link to this

I think people are just getting riduculous, I mean if everybody gets offended at everything then it’s just a sad, sad time. People need to get over themselves. We are a huge melting pot of people, cultures, races and religions. To my fellow Christians we need to remember that to suffer for the names sake of our Lord is a priveldge and should be taken as a blessing. We are to return good for evil and if compelled to walk a mile, then we should walk two. Our Lord told us that if we are sued for our shirts then to give up our coats as well.

If Christians would study last days prophecy they would understand that this whole thing about the world turning againstg Christians is to be expected and is just part of the prophecy to come.

Count it as good, it is a sign that the return of our Lord is at hand.

Maranatha Lord (come quickly)

Merry Christmas and Peace on earth to all men Suz

By V for Vendetta

December 9, 2005 08:10 AM | Link to this

Oh great, someone just said “prophecy”. I cant believe someone actually worked the word “prophecy” into a discussion about Christmas trees and decorations, and that it is a sign that the “return of our Lord is at hand”. Sure. Right. That’s exactly what I was thinking. People complaining about Christmas decorations points to the second coming. How could I have been so blind?

By SUZAN

December 9, 2005 11:18 AM | Link to this

V Sorry if I confused you but that is the basis for Chrstianity. The return of our Lord. Sorry if I upset you but this is the way we believe.

By JAMES M. WOODS

December 12, 2005 08:13 AM | Link to this

The flogging of Christmas is just another sign of the down-fall of our culture. Where are we headed. Political correctness is running amuck. As a Christian I feel that my rights and freedom of speech are being denied. How in the world can anybody be offended by Jesus. Who is the light of the world in my opinion and his message is of love and peace and harmony.

By V for Vendetta

December 14, 2005 08:08 AM | Link to this

Correction Suzan, that is what YOU believe. Christmas has become a religious AND pagan holiday, in fact it always has been, so don’t assume that because someone celebrates Christmas as a time to be kind, giving, and joyous, they also buy into all the romanticized Bible stories. People like you and Jame here scare me just as much as the PC police.

By SUZAN

December 14, 2005 08:28 AM | Link to this

V, I am so sorry for you, you seem so very angry. You however are not the only one. One thing you learn to expected as a Christian is that the name of Jesus Christ causes either peace or anger. There is normally no in between. That’s okay. I understand that people who do not understand the true meaning of Christmas or what Christ taught get very angry about anyone who can find their peace or joy with Him. We expect this and he foretold this. I try and reach for peace and comfort in Him so that I can give that to others that need it. I work with cancer patients and when you have an opportunity to work with people who are very ill or are dieing they want this and need it. It only reinforces my beliefs that Jesus Christ is who he said he was. I dont ask you to believe, that must come from within and by calling of the Holy Spirit. I do ask that you consider beng respectful of my beliefs as I am of yours. You have every right to believe as you choose and I supoort you in that but it should in no way stop me or those like me from celebrating a 2000 year old belief. We know how Christmas came about, we know that this is the time of the solstice and winter celebrations. We also know that Jesus was most likely born in the spring. I understand all of this. This is the time that was chosen by the Church to celebrate his birth and I and millions of others in this country still choose to do that. If it in someway offends you, perhaps you should ask yourself why and really explore the reason. I really dont think it’s about bashing your rights at all.

By V for Vendetta

December 14, 2005 10:26 AM | Link to this

Suzan, the funny thing is I think we both agree on the point at hand, that Christmas decorations, saying “Merry Christmas”, and Christmas trees should not be renamed or dumbed down. I just don’t think it points to any prophecy or Christian persecution, but rather people’s ignorance and stupidity. We should all be free to do as we want as long as it doesn’t infringe on other people’s rights, and I think people who claim the phrase “Merry Christmas” offends them lead sad and pathetic lives. This is what happens when bored politicians and authorities sit around trying to come up with things to legislate or make rules about.

By SUZAN

December 15, 2005 12:56 PM | Link to this

V, I do indeed agree with your point of view on this. Ido not wish to infringe on anyone’s right to worship as they please, I think it would be a wonderful teaching opportunity to decorate and celebrate many diverse cultures and beliefs. In this way perhaps we can begen to teach out children true acceptance of others with our having to be afraid of offendimg everyone in the world. I for one would welcome this. I also think Christmas trees, stars of David, Kwanza and Cresent moon and star are okay to exhibit in the class rooms. I think our current leaders in our educational systems are far to afraid of offending anyone. Well you just cant go throught life like this. This type of fear causes more racism I think than just being out and open with beliefs. At least no one I know needs to guess where I stand. I am sorry if I insulted you in anyway