Get Schooled

By Leia

November 25, 2005 03:08 PM | Link to this

I think that wealthy PTAs should contribute their money where they want to! There is a reason why some public schools are considered to be in affluent neighborhoods and some are not.

By Lynn

November 25, 2005 03:56 PM | Link to this

I’m in Carrollton, and we are not an “affluent” community, but we do have a very active PTA that raises funds. These funds are mostly used for the media centers, a gift to the teachers (usually $100 per teacher at the beginning of the year for extra supplies) and teacher appreciation days. We also use the money for other extras like glass encased bulletin boards….typically things that the administration does not spend money on, but are appreciated. I think that there is nothing wrong with giving to your schools. It is parents that help determine the quality of public schools, and whatever we can do to make these schools better is a good thing.

I don’t agree that parents “can’t” get involved. There is ALWAYS something that you can do, even if you are a single, working parent. Maybe it is not as extravagent as a new gym floor, but every little thing counts. An extra pack of 25 cent crayons can be a big help to a kindergarten teacher. Lots of parents choose not to get involved. That is their (and their children’s) loss.

By Karen Armsby

November 25, 2005 04:18 PM | Link to this

We aren’t taliking about taxes here, we are talking about voluntary contributions of time and effort and dollars by stakeholders in the school. Talk about redistribution of wealth, come on Patti!

Every community, rich or poor has resources to tap for helping schools improve. You need good leaders who know how to build a support base. Even the poorest communities can go out and get business partnerships to help their schools. Parents at every school need to get a clue, if you are not involved and helping, then your child and your child’s school will not be the best.

By Ernest

November 25, 2005 04:28 PM | Link to this

Patti, you created a blog topic on what I was thinking when I read the original posting. ‘Parental Involvement’ envy is rampant in school systems throughout the country. That being said, I don’t believe I could support any attempt to ‘restrict’ the amount of parental involvement some schools receive. This involvement could be in volunteerism and/or donations. Doing so might have the effect of more leaving the public school system along with creating additional resentment due to ‘classism’. I have no problem with school systems ‘asking’ more affluent schools to help and/or partner with less affluent schools in their districts. Whether this is done is up to those schools.

By Karen Armsby

November 25, 2005 04:31 PM | Link to this

Patti, The title of this blog should be changed to “Willing and Not Willing.” Some of us are willing to work hard, pay taxes and contrubute, and some are not. Wealth or the appearance of wealth is not a gift, rather it is earned through studying, staying in school, graduating, going onto college or a job and working long hours, days and years.

Wealth is an individual choice. And so is poverty.

By alice

November 25, 2005 04:43 PM | Link to this

In Fulton County, the Fulton County PTA does a good job of “keeping” schools from paying from things that should be standard. In fact, PTA bylaws forbid PTAs from hiring teachers etc and Fulton’s council does a good job of enforcement. Their reasoning is that if all schools don’t have say an art teacher, then all parents will work together to force the system to provide them. It seems to be effective, Fulton County elementary schools got nurses long before the state starting paying for them because some schools (with PTA funds) had paid for them on their own.

By Vicki

November 25, 2005 04:54 PM | Link to this

Thank you, Karen. I couldn’t have said it better myself!

By Ernest

November 25, 2005 04:57 PM | Link to this

Alice brings up a good point regarding the PTA bylaws. It also raises a question how Brookwood and other schools are able to circumvent the provision of paying for non standard things. I recall a conversation recently with members of our board that ‘gifts’ are made to the school system not the individual schools. Theoretically, if a PTA/booster club purchases a computer for their school, the school system could take this and provide it to another school. To get around this, organizations would keep the items and provide them to their desgnated schools when needed. Interesting approach…

By Steven M.

November 28, 2005 08:10 AM | Link to this

Do we really need government trampling on our freedom any more than it already does? If parents want to fund activities in their own community, let them. They shouldn’t be forced to contribute to other communities beyond what compusory taxation requires.

By jim dumond

November 28, 2005 08:50 AM | Link to this

IMHO, schools in Georgia that have parents and community making a difference by providing for their children’s education have been under attack ever since the PAGE report, “Recommendations for Improving Public School Funding in Georgia Schools,�* was released at the PAGE Annual Conference in June 1996. (see below)

Use of such Robin Hood tactics fail to improve education, yet you are asking if we should be required to give more to school districts that place a lesser value on education?

I don’t think so!

If what you seek is equitability in education funding I suggest that property taxes, the primary educational funding mechanism, be levied equitably. Stop penalizing taxpayers that tax themselves at higher rates or voluntarily give more financial aid to provide an excellent educational opportunity for their children.

“ * Defining Wealth of Local School Systems Rationale: The equitable funding of an excellent program of education will require that the financial capacity (wealth) of a local school system be determined as objectively and factually as possible by the state. The wealth of a school system should be defined to include a range of factors. The wealth factors should include the citizens’ accumulated possessions (property), annual income of individuals and families, and movement of money (expenditures on goods, services, rentals, tourist accommodations). Georgia must design a formula which accurately reflects a combination of these wealth factors, and school systems would then be more realistically ranked by this wealth factor. “

By me

November 28, 2005 09:21 AM | Link to this

So, if I give to the holiday fund to thank the lunchroom and janitorial staff for all their hard work at our school, those funds could be used for another school if the county system gets it hands on these funds?

By oldteacher

November 28, 2005 09:47 AM | Link to this

How does our PTA get around all the national regulations? They changed from PTA to PTO. I think the individual schools need to hold on to what funds they raise.

By Ernest

November 28, 2005 09:53 AM | Link to this

Me, in fairness, I don’t believe this is a ‘rule’ a local BOE would enforce. In your example, the gift is being provided to individuals not the school. One school I work with asked if the PTA could supplement the school with a few computers. The PTA president indicated this is discouraged by the State PTA saying instructional assets should be provided by the school system. If the PTA elected to do this, could the school system take that asset and provide it to another school? Highly unlikely, but the possibility exists if the computer is ‘given’ to the school.

In the example given by Patti, it is fair to ask if the gym floor was paid for with private or public funding.

By Funky Gee

November 28, 2005 10:04 AM | Link to this

I can’t believe we’re gonna let parents help the schools where their children attend. Somebody’s gotta put a stop to this. What will they think of next? Funding their child’s college account?

By Amazed (Independent Woman)

November 28, 2005 10:52 AM | Link to this

One day there will be another civil war in this country, but it will not be between the states. It will be the haves versus the have-nots.

Welfare system Healthcare Systems School Systems Prison Systems

God gives and he can take it away.

By Cracker

November 28, 2005 11:12 AM | Link to this

Hey Amazed - the haves will win that war. They’re already fighting it. Plus I don’t see any have nots giving to charities, starting companies that employ people, paying taxes of many sorts, bailing out the uninsured, providing internet web logs for people like you to lecture us……..etc

By notso

November 28, 2005 11:17 AM | Link to this

Yes SHE can. SHE also gives us opportunity. Of course that doesn’t mean we’ll take advantage of it.

By Dan

November 28, 2005 11:25 AM | Link to this

Just think about that question for a second. It is extremely scary. It is a perfect example of what is wrong with public education and the culture that brings it down. Should schools restrict the amount PTA’s can contribute? ARE YOU KIDDING ME!! Now throwing money at the school system doesn’t solve problems, but not allowing donations helps no one. When an institution tries to level the playing field by bringing down a group rather than raising one up it is doomed to failure. You will wind up with an instituiton like….well like our public schools.
Still astounded that such a thing could even be considered by rational adults

By Karen Armsby

November 28, 2005 11:58 AM | Link to this

Ernest, Brookwood is in Gwinnett County, and I don’t know about Fulton County. However, when I was a PTA officer in Gwinnett County schools 10 to 15 years ago we funded a clinic worker at our elementary school, and we weren’t circumventing any rules. The “standard equipment” you reference is a skeleton list of items that schools are provided with, which are paid for with tax dollars. The goal of PTA fundraising is to enhance the learning experience for all of the students at their school with the purchase of more books for the libraries, computers and software, composite floors for gyms, playground equipment, lab equipment, art and music supplies, stocked teacher supply closets or workrooms, artists in residence, cultural events, field trips, etc. And those people complaining that too many of their tax dollars go to the schools should be happy that the stakeholders in the community, the parents and students are the ones participating in their PTA’s efforts to better equip their own schools. The business partnerships they form in their communities also benefit from good will and putting the business name in front of the student population and their parents.

Believe me, the day the PTA’s are required to share their funds with other schools is the day parents will stop their voluntary contributions.

Naseem, Even the poorest schools have leaders among the parents. All it takes is some leadership in each school to get a small group together, get the support of the principal and teachers (which is sometimes a big hurdle!) and then start building a core of volunteers and supporters, and community business partnerships. The state PTA provides leadership training and suggestions and support. Contact them first to get started if the school doesn’t have a PTA.

By Annica

November 28, 2005 12:06 PM | Link to this

To Patti Ghezzi , I recently read your article “Haves and Have-Nots”. I found it quite interesting because this happened to be a topic discussed by my family during the holidays. We all agreed that parents should participate in their children’s schooling not only through money but through money but by giving time as well. The government does not always consider the schools that really need money and attention for grants; therefore, we should all take it upon ourselves to find ways to get our children the best education possible. Everyone can not afford to go to private school but that should not stop them from getting the best education available to them.

By Robert

November 28, 2005 12:25 PM | Link to this

It is not “haves vs. have-nots” but more like “cares vs. doesn’t-care”. It means so very much more for parents to be involved with and care about their child’s education and school compared to any amount of money they might donate. Yes, money helps. But, you can have a wealthy school in terms of money that does a poor job of education due to lack of parental involvement as well.

There is no reason to limit parents from donating money to PTA or to any organization that supports local schools.

By MrLiberty

November 28, 2005 12:54 PM | Link to this

I have said it more than once in these blogs - government schools are the last bastion on pure socialism on this planet. To even suggest that any limits should be put on the generocity of voluntary giving simply because everyone is not able to give the same is disgusting and disturbinly unamerican.

The fundamental problem in giving as it relates to the government school system is that it is “free” to everyone. “0” cost equals “0” value. With this setup, big surprise that many don’t care. Why should they? What have they got to lose?

End compulsory, taxpayer-funded, government run schooling in favor of pay as you go private schooling and you will see parent’s attitudes and actions change. And for those that don’t, at least the rest of us can stop paying for their lack of concern.

And for you crying socialists out there that just can’t sit back and let people learn from their own irresponsibility, please feel free to set up a system of charity schools - just don’t be surprised if the same “I don’t care” parents show up with their $150 a pair shoe wearing kids to take advantage of your “generosity.”

By Gail

November 28, 2005 01:52 PM | Link to this

If wealthy PTAs want to donate to schools in poorer areas, I think that’s great. I’ve heard about some PTAs doing just that (maybe in Cobb County?) It should not be required however.

What might be just as helpful is for the well-established PTAs to provide some guidance in fundraising for the poorer school PTAs. A friend of mine worked with a PTA fundraiser in a Gwinnett school several years ago and I was STUNNED to learn how much free stuff they were able to get from surrounding businesses for a spaghetti supper. The PTA raised so much more money than they would have without the area businesses stepping up for the local elementary school.

I don’t think every school’s PTA is taking advantage of this kind of thing. And oftentimes, the very schools that need this kind of support the most are the ones that don’t know about it.

By kristina

November 28, 2005 02:15 PM | Link to this

This is deffinately a case of the haves and have nots. Americans with money fail to understand, no I mean realize that all of us do not and will not have access to the same priveledges. Some communities cannot afford to have music programs, good teachers… because of their economic status. Until we all realize that each child has a right to the same equal education our children will not be fit to serve themselves or our community.

By kristina

November 28, 2005 02:17 PM | Link to this

And by the way, if parents can’t afford to take off work to go to a PTA meeting what do you suppose they do?

By Dan

November 28, 2005 02:43 PM | Link to this

So Kristina consider this School A can afford a widget School B can’t Now explain to me how disallowing school A to have that widget can possibly help school B. It doesn’t not one iota, and for those who say it helps the esteem of school B, what about the esteem of school A?
If someone can afford a private room in a hospital and others can’t should we all be in wards? You can make an argument that a miniman standard of education should be made available to all. But to say everyone is entitled to equal education is plain ignorant

By urban teacher

November 28, 2005 03:09 PM | Link to this

I teach at a school where most of the students are on free/reduced lunch. Most of the parents are “have nots,” but that doesn’t mean that they are “care nots.” Our school community of students, teachers, and administrators has been generous with raising money to help our New Orleans students, with collecting money and supplies for students whose apartment homes have burned down, and other emergency situations. Some students at my school work, not to save for a new car, but to pay rent and bills. Some parents work two jobs at only minimum wage. These are good kids. But they would scare the living daylights out of some of you up there in affluent Gwinnett and Cobb if you saw them walking down the street in your neighborhood.

Unfortunately, teachers don’t get extra “stuff” from the PTA beyond a couple of ink pens, markers, and Post-its, let alone $100 at the beginning of the year! And our building is in need of major rennovations. New computers would be nice. More books in the library would be nice.

Schools like Brookwood are attractive to teachers, but students at my school deserve all the things that the other students at other schools get, too, regardless of how little money their parents make.

I’m not saying that PTA donations should be limited or spread out among less affluent schools. But the system isn’t fair. And you can blame the families, you can blame the teachers, you can blame the school systems. It’s the students who are effected by the unfairness.

By HS Science

November 28, 2005 04:14 PM | Link to this

Involved parents, with or without money, make a difference. One school where my, sons attended, recieved a grand piano, more than 50 computers, media center supplies and many other gifts through the effort and pockets of the parents.

One school that I taught at that had great parental involvement with a lot less financial strenght, benefitted from parents as tutors, teacher assistants, academic performance parties, and many little things that made a big difference.

Share? No. However, I noticed at one school where I taught that parents fought to get their children in because the “folks with money” helped the school. It was sad to see that many of the parents that wanted to ride others’ coat-tails would not try to even get involved with the things that did not require money. These grafters were the non-supporting parents at their home school.

If I get someone to donate 30 computers to my child school, why should the computers be shipped somewhere else? If school A can raise money to redo their gym or add a coaching stippen so-be-it.

By William

November 28, 2005 04:59 PM | Link to this

“And by the way, if parents can’t afford to take off work to go to a PTA meeting what do you suppose they do?”

Not have kids would be a good start. Getting a different job is another alternative. Either is better than throwing up your hands for 12 years and saying “oh well, educate my kid for me.” My wife and I both take the time to be at the parent/teacher conferences and school functions. We manage by knowing the schedule, planning accordingly, and juggling lunch schedules. Make it a priority and it will get done.

By me

November 28, 2005 05:00 PM | Link to this

Since when is life fair?

I as a child learned this from an early age. My brothers and sisters went to private school and I was told I was not worth the money that would have to be spent on me for tuition let alone books or other materials needed for school. So that left me in public school where I did just fine. I went on to college and shortly there after became a functioning member of society, paying my own way and making a fairly good living. Twenty years later, I am a stay at home mom with my husbands blessings and I am part of the PTA at my childrens’ school. Matter of fact, just today I was in one of my son’s classrooms reading to the students.

I could go play tennis or get my hair or nails done, but I choose to be mentor or tutor to the children of our school because I can help make a difference.

Should I go and assist at other schools who’s parents can’t or don’t help or mentor? Would it really mean the same thing to the kids at a different school. I feel that you help yourself by helping your children. I help at my childrens’ school because…well they are MY children.

By SET

November 28, 2005 05:10 PM | Link to this

The Old Soviet Union tried - on a large scale - the concept that those who produce could have their possessions taken from them and redistributed as the government saw fit. This was called Communism or Socialism or Collectivism.

This concept ultimately failed wherever it was tried, but along the way there was tremendous evil done. Stalin killed how many people? The North Koreans reportedly forced their people into cannibalism? China is quite capable of making both cultures look like amatuers. Even the Third Reich were Socialists.

It is morally wrong to forcibly take goods and services and redistribute them against the will of those who produce. Ayn Rand is one of the best writers to explore the evil of Collectivism.

And this is what we are talking about here. Some people may say that it’s only on a small scale - redistributing school resources. The point is that this thing called Socialism or Collectivism is Evil. We know it’s evil because of 20th Century History. And we know what the practice of this evil always leads to.

If the poor schools want more they need to do their own honest fund raising and then live within their means. In so doing they will teach an important lesson to their students. It’s wrong to take what’s not yours and what you haven’t earned by honest work.

By earning whatever it is you think you need/want you better yourself and avoid decending into evil.

Let them have bake sales and car washes, then do without what they can’t afford. Whatever the other schools have is their produce.

By Mike

November 28, 2005 05:19 PM | Link to this

Why do people such as Urban Teacher always blame the mythical “system” . There is nothing systemic about people having children that they are either incapable or disinterested in raising to their fullest potential. The decision to have pre-marital sex and bear a child out of wedlock is not a circumstance thrust upon anyone - it is a decision made willingly. While I agree that children do deserve better, the responsibilty lies with the parent(s) to see that these needs are met.

Why is it considered evil for me to want to work hard and provide a little “extra” for my family? Society should not require that we are expected to treat all children the same - it should only require that we treat everyone fairly. And what’s so unfair about a parent investing the fruits of their labor in their child’s future just because another parent is unwilling to make the same sacrifices and committments?

By Karen Armsby

November 29, 2005 10:29 AM | Link to this

Urban Teacher, There is no one “system” controlling what, and how, and why schools are successful or not. Yes, schools are a part of a school system and their board, and the state board. The teachers hired by that system are there to teach, and that job is much easier at some schools and nearly impossible at others. That is because the “system” can’t control the type of student sitting in the classroom. The student may be ready to learn or not ready, willing to learn or not willing, able or not able to learn because of a whole host of social issues we’ve discussed before.

Parents are not part of any one “system.” They can be a hugely positive force as they encourage their children to learn, have good communications with the school, join with other parents and participate in the PTA, supporting the school in learning activities and fundraising that benefits all of the students.

The parents can also be a hugely negative force that derails the teachers’ efforts to teach the children. The loser parents, individually and collectively, are dismal failures at modeling good discipline and study habits and encouraging their kids; they never talk to a teacher, respond to a note sent home, or attend a PTA meeting. They blame everyone else but themselves for their children’s failings and the schools’ failings. They leave the problem solving to anyone but themselves.

Success begins with each individual student and his parent(s) or guardians working in cooperation with the teachers and the schools. You have identified problems at your school. My question for you is, “What have YOU done to work to change things for the better?”

PTA means Parents and Teachers working together. Nowhere is it written that a parent is the only person who can lead their school’s PTA. You as a teacher can lead the PTA, can be the force for positive changes, can be the inspiration to turn things around. You can go out and get community support and partnerships, and start some meaningful fundraising.

I won’t accept the excuse that you work and don’t have time. Most successful PTA officers work full-time jobs, too. They do their volunteer PTA work after hours and on weekends.

FYI Gwinnett is very diverse in its racial and cultural make-up, and not the affluent island that you think. You are mistaken in your view that one of your students would “scare the living daylights” out of residents in my county. And frankly, I think you demean your students with that comment.

By Lilburn Parent

November 30, 2005 02:26 PM | Link to this

Karen… I agree 100% with your comments!

By dee

November 30, 2005 03:38 PM | Link to this

I agree with Karen also. It doesn’t have to cost anything for you to get involved. You need to know your child’s teachers and the people they are around at school. I’m certainly not affluent, but I helped raise money for extracurricular activities, wrote letters to the legislators for funds for a sports field, participated as parent and chaperone for community programs that students participated. Through that I have met many students and they know me by name and I still see some of them. It was truly rewarding.