Get Schooled

By Zoe

November 21, 2005 10:21 AM | Link to this

I planned on completing this next summer. However, the rules have changed and a teacher has to teach in title I school to get the 10% boost in salary. Honestly, it isn’t worth working on if I won’t see any benefits.

By dar

November 21, 2005 10:37 AM | Link to this

Zoe is correct. When national certification was first proposed politicians were all for it until….well, you guessed it…until it means digging down into their pockets and paying for what they want.

What’s new?

By scott

November 21, 2005 11:48 AM | Link to this

Those who have completed the program said it was grueling but worth it, especially the pay increase. However, thanks to Gov. Perdue, the rules changed to prevent teachers in well performing schools to receive the pay increase. My school had at least 10 teachers attend the interest meeting but once we were told the news I do not believe anyone began the process. In essence, we are being penalized for already doing a great job. Personally, the pay increase is not incentive enough for me to teach at a Title I school. Yet I would be motivated to complete the program if I would receive the increase and still stay at my same location. The old program was a great way for teacher to earn a respectable salary but now, you will see more teachers leave the profession early as the become married and have families.

By Erin

November 21, 2005 12:02 PM | Link to this

Scott, you’re absolutely right. I am an NBCT from another state and can’t say that I would have gone through the process if I knew I’d have to switch schools and systems in order to get my raise. I think to assume an NBCT will turn around a Title 1 School is ridiculous. There are so many factors that go into making a good school— teachers are just one of the factors.

By Don

November 21, 2005 12:13 PM | Link to this

While there are only three post as of yet the problem with them are the same. They focus with teacher compensation and that doesn’t necessarily equate to student success. As a parent I dont know without asking the administration whether my childs teachers past present or future held or holds this certification. Does the school make this data readily available? I am ill inform to make an assessment of a teacher performance based on whether they hold National certification unless I have something to compare it to. It would be interesting to know and make a actual student performance based decision regarding the school faculty. Can you imagine the crush to get ones child in selective teachers classes?

By Tony

November 21, 2005 12:15 PM | Link to this

National Board Certification is a truly worthwhile opportunity for all teachers. It is a shame that the incentive for teachers has been jerked away from them by politicians. The claim is that spending in this program is out of control. Pay for performance has been a topic of lawmakers for years and now that we have a credible avenue to improve performance, we find they are unwilling “to put their money where their mouth is.”

As long as education is held hostage by lawmakers whose whims change as quickly as the wind, the state of student learning in the United States will not get better. As a school leader, it is clear to me that problems with public education are not as related to teacher quality as politicians would have everyone believe.

By me

November 21, 2005 12:34 PM | Link to this

Tony - If problems with public education are not as related to teacher quality as politicians would have everyone believe, then why is it so difficult to find a certified substitute teacher for a 2nd grade class? The poor teacher who finds herself ill, has to be out of work for several months and her kids are being supervised by an unqualified sub? Where are all these great teachers now? This is a situation I find my child in right now. He’s not causing trouble, but he’s only getting average marks from the sub and by the way he’s an above average student and has been since he started school. In pre-k he went into the KK classes to read to the students.

By crh

November 21, 2005 12:50 PM | Link to this

I did my NCBT and turned the portfolio and tapes in early. I took the test and scored well on all parts except the World History. I have a BA,Masters and Ed.S. in Political Science with all electives taken in US History. I have taught for over 30 years, the last 25 teaching AP US History and AP Government. I am AP certified and gifted certified. The NBCT test is not fair if you are a specialist in one area not a Social Studies person. The National Board people lost my portfolio and tapes and gave me two days to get the copies together and mail it to them. One of the entries was saved on a disk that failed and I had to completely do that part over. Would I do it again? Absolutely not. I did not pass by just a few points. The NBCT process is so specific and you must follow their guidelines but it was ok for them to lose my entire portfolio, etc. They received it at their office because I received a confirmation. What might have happen if they had not lost it? I do not know but I do know that I would not do it again or recommend it to anyone.

By angela

November 21, 2005 01:14 PM | Link to this

As a parent, I dont see the benefits of it or not. Both my children have had wonderful teachers that were certified and who werent. The kids actually have the favorite teachers and guess what….neither were certified. I think teaching is a gift and teachers do it for the love of it, not necessarily the pay. I am sure just as anyone the pay increase would be an extra bonus. But, if your doing a wonderful job that you love, is it worth all the extra for no benefits? I understand you would get the satisfaction of going through the process, but in essence is it worth it? I think teachers are one of the greatest influences of a child and yet, are one of the lowest paid professions. I thin our teachers deserve more than what they get paid. Even after you have put in 20 yrs. the pay has not increased much. For everything you do out of the kindness of your heart teachers THANK YOU!!! I was a preK teacher and most of the items in my classroom were personally bought myself due to the lack of funds to properly reward and instruct the children. SO KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!!

By notso

November 21, 2005 01:16 PM | Link to this

Gee, whatever happened to all those dedicated teachers, we’re always hearing about, in it for the students?

By Better Than Ever

November 21, 2005 01:19 PM | Link to this

As a veteran teacher with 29 years of experience, I considered the process of National Board Certification. However, the process is so cost prohibitive that I was forced to abandon my pursuit. Am I a less-qualified teacher because I am not nationally certified??? The hoops I did not jump through due to the cost would not have made be a better teacher no do they make anyone else better.

By Velatra

November 21, 2005 01:20 PM | Link to this

Please correct me if I’m wrong, but I thought that NBCTeachers were now required to teach in Needs Improvement schools, not Title I schools. There is distinction between the two, as there are Title I schools that are meeting and/or exceeding the AYP objectives. Anyone out there can clarify that for me?

As for the new rule itself, I think that it is a catch 22 situation for the teachers and students. I don’t believe that teachers (even they have doctorates) can change a failing school without the students and parents playing their parts. The other side to it is the achievement gap will continue to widen between failing and non-failing schools if the all of the NBCTeachers teach at those schools.

As for the teachers, why should they be put through another obstacle course when they’ve already completed one by meeting the requirements to be Board certified? They should be given a choice. After all, becoming Board certified certainly is not cheap ($2300, I think), and the so-called salary increase is probably used to pay back those outstanding student loans!

By scott

November 21, 2005 01:21 PM | Link to this

Believe it or not teachers also have to mortgages, car payments, college tuition for themselves and their children, and bills like everyone else who works. Nearly everyone pursues a field they enjoy, but the last I checked very few people work for free.

By me

November 21, 2005 01:26 PM | Link to this

I just want a teacher with a teaching certificate. They don’t have to be a National Board Certification teacher, My child’s class just needs someone who is a “real” teacher not someone like me. He’s begging me to home school him and I don’t think I’m qualified.

By Leia

November 21, 2005 01:47 PM | Link to this

notso - Of course I’m dedicated to my students - to a certain extent! I would not do this job for free, and if I can get paid nearly what I’m worth - of course I’m going to take whatever steps are necessary to achieve that goal.

You cannot be that naive to think that teachers are different from any other professional. As someone has already stated - we have cars, boats, houses, children, pets and everything everyone else has!

By b. white

November 21, 2005 01:52 PM | Link to this

‘High-needs school’ means a Georgia public school that has received an unacceptable rating for a period of two or more consecutive years; and …

Information about NBCT can be found at teachgeorgia.org’s home page. There’s a button to click for information on NBCT.

By notso

November 21, 2005 01:52 PM | Link to this

Sorry Scott, I was referring to the posts above that indicated they wouldn’t do it because they’d have to teach in a less desirable environment. I know you teachers that care are out there, just not posting. Where are you?

By Erin

November 21, 2005 01:58 PM | Link to this

notso— It’s not that it’s a “less desirable environment”— it’s the principle of the matter. What kind of sense does it make to “reward” at teacher who achieves National Board Certification with having to leave the school where they have roots? Very few would go through the process when they knew they’d have to move if they succeeded.

By Jenna

November 21, 2005 02:03 PM | Link to this

I teach in my neighborhood school. It takes me 5 minutes to get to work everyday. I designed it that way! Why should I be punished by being forced to leave the school in which I have established a certain rapport with the administration, staff and fellow faculty members just because I achieved another accolade?

By C.R.H.

November 21, 2005 02:13 PM | Link to this

Why would any teacher want to pay a stupid amount of money (over $2000) and spend about 2 years jumping through hoops? Really what is the payoff here? Maybe that teacher takes home about $100 - $200 more a month and he/she gets to teach at a school no person with 4 properly working brain cells would want to even drive past. WOW…sign me up! I served my time at those schools and I wouldn’t go back for twice what I’m paid. And don’t come back with the crap about “in it for the kids”, most of those kids aren’t even “in it” to help themselves!

By Ernest

November 21, 2005 02:19 PM | Link to this

As a parent/taxpayer, help me understand what I am getting if my childrens’ teacher is NBC? How does this differ from a teacher with a PhD, gifted certification, or any other type of specialist degree? I like the ‘principle’ behind the idea of giving teachers an incentive to seek this but what measurements do we have to determine if the effort was worth it?

By teacher

November 21, 2005 02:34 PM | Link to this

I completed the portfolio as part of a graduate program to earn a Specialist degree. I did not meet the “standards” for National Board by just a couple of points. I was floored. The process was extremely expensive ($2300). My failure letter stated that this is intended to be a “multi-year” process and that I can retake sections for $350 per section (plus a $15 administrative fee). I truly believe the process has made me a better teacher and I want to continue, but I am so frustrated with the money I have spent and the lack of feedback. They don’t tell you how they come up with your score. You are just notified with a random number for each of the ten sections of the process. If it is really supposed to be a process to improve my teaching, wouldn’t it be a good idea to provide some sort of feedback so that I can be more effective with my students? I feel like teachers who achieve National Board Certification are effective teachers who jumped through the right hoops for the assessors. I don’t know what I am going to do at this point. I am so frustrated and I spent so much money!

By OldSchool

November 21, 2005 03:05 PM | Link to this

I don’t have the time, money or inclination to even begin the process for National Board Certification. I am, however, working towards getting my Engineering Drawing program ADDA/Industry Certified. There is no money in it for me but the benefits to my students are pretty good. I will be jumping through hoops, yes…but when I’m done, I’ll have a very organized, up-to-date program.

By I_Teach

November 21, 2005 03:40 PM | Link to this

Dear ‘notso:’

I DID teach in title I schools for 6 years in GA; I finally left, as did most of my colleagues, because we tend to get “burn-out” much easier/faster in high-stress, high-needs environments.

I pursued a Master’s because it was a personal goal; however, where I was born, educated, and began my teaching career (the northeast) a Master’s is MANDATORY, and teachers there must get one within 5 yrs of teaching in a public school. Maybe because those teachers have a “bigger toolbox” to dig from, they get better results.

Why shouldn’t I be compensated for continuing my education? Why is it that teachers are vilified for wanting good working conditions? Was I wrong for leaving an environment that was harming me physically and emotionally? I suffered major GUILT when I left my last school to come teach in a school that was located in a neighborhood that was better off socio-economically. Was I wrong?

All I know is that after 4 years, I don’t feel burnt out; I feel much more valued, and less of a babysitter, as when I worked in the three high-needs schools.

Shame on you for criticizing those who don’t want to work in high-needs schools. If you think it is the same as teaching elsewhere, YOU do it!

By I_Teach

November 21, 2005 03:47 PM | Link to this

Earnest:

National Certification (which ironically, is NOT accepted in all states; a colleague who moved to Iowa was told it was not recognized there, but I digress!)is a way of showing competency in teaching using the best practices.

It is a very time-consuming, grueling process, and the teacher must document, on paper, and also on videotape his/her proficiency in using identified methods.

I have a good friend, who missed the test by a handful of points. Because she will not be compensated for her efforts, she will not spend the several hundred dollars needed to retake it.

Does this make her less of a qualified teacher than others who have receive certifiation? NO. There are plenty of excellent teachers who don’t have their master’s degree, let alone NBC-However, since this is not a requirement, we should compensate those who seek out to better their methods, if for no other reason the dedication and amount of time given to the effort.

If you want to know how good your children’s teachers are, ASK other parents whose children sat through the classes. Were they challenged? Excited about learning? Don’t use test scores either…too many teachers have special needs children while others are given NONE, and this does reflect in test scores.

By notso

November 22, 2005 10:01 AM | Link to this

Dear I Teach.

Good for you. Shame on me? I don’t think so. all I’m reading is all “about me” yet when you ask any teacher WHY they teach its always about the students.

Well, do students from title 1 schools deserve the best education possible? Who best to provide that education?

I have no problem with teachers not wanting to teach at these schools, but honestly believe those that do deserve compensation for their efforts.

Do you have a problem with that?

By Lee

November 22, 2005 10:09 AM | Link to this

Does the NBCT make you a better teacher? Maybe, maybe not. For that matter, does a Masters degree (or above) make a better teacher? Not necessarily. It just means that someone completed the requirements of the program by taking a few tests, writing papers, etc., etc. Thus, the problem with having Phd’s making the rules. They are so full of themselves and advanced degrees, they think nobody is worth anything without one.

The teachers, in order to get their pay raised to a somewhat adequate level, must play the game and get those degrees / certifications. Then everyone acts shocked when they wind up with PE teachers with Phd’s making $90k per year.

I would say that school systems should be allowed to set their own salaries based on market rates, but after dealing with a couple of inept administrators, I don’t trust them to make that decision.

Besides, the schools wouldn’t want to pay market rates for some fields. Case in point, to become a high school chemistry teacher, the program is just as rigorous as the pharmacy program. 1st year HS science teacher starting salary is what, $38k a year? A well known chain has a program in which they will pay for a student’s college education in Pharmacy and pay the graduate $100k right out of college. School systems across Georgia are begging for chemistry teachers but can’t figure out why none are available.

As Homer (Simpson) would say, “Doh!!”

By jim dumond

November 22, 2005 10:10 AM | Link to this

Somebody help me understand National certification.

I work in a trade that requires licensing in each state I perform services. A national certification in my trade could lead to not having to test 50 times.

Would or does National certification not afford teachers the flexability to work anywhere without having to become certified in each state? If not, why haven’t teachers pushed for that accomodation?

By jim dumond

November 22, 2005 10:23 AM | Link to this

@ITeach

You wrote; “All I know is that after 4 years, I don’t feel burnt out; I feel much more valued, and less of a babysitter, as when I worked in the three high-needs schools.”

Without sounding presumptuous, could I respectfully ask where you felt you made the largest impact on a students life?

By teacher in Cobb

November 22, 2005 10:24 AM | Link to this

I too, just missed certification by a handful of points. I am dismayed by the lack of feedback and the range of scores in my portfolios and assessment center exercises. Despite the training of their assessors, there is no way it can be truly objective.

I am also completely frustrated by the lack of support I received from my administrators. Not once did I get a word of encoragement or offer of support or help. This was more frustrating than not achieving certification.

Am I a better teacher because of it? Would I be a better teacher if I decide to attempt it again? I think simply going through the process improved my teaching practice.

If someone is destined to be a great teacher, they will be a great teacher with or without additional certificates and endorsements.

By C.R.H.

November 22, 2005 04:28 PM | Link to this

National Certification means nothing as far as most states certification requirements. If I moved to another state I would probably get sacked for another $150 + to take the praxis (AGAIN) or some other state test. NCB = a little certificate for the “look at me” wall!

By luvs2teach

November 22, 2005 04:30 PM | Link to this

To Jim D and notso …

This is the reality: most starting teachers end up in the more challenging schools. Why? Because that’s where the jobs are. It’s not about caring or not - teachers transfer out or quit at much higher rates because the job is harder at those schools.

When you leave and transfer to a “better” school (usually meaning a better socio-economic population, more active parents, higher test scores) it’s looked at having “done your time” and moving up. Most of the time, you don’t want to go back.

I transferred from one Title 1 school to another closer to my home. I do care about these kids, as do most teachers who have worked or are working in Title 1 schools.

But, it is more draining.

You can’t contact parents because their phones have been disconnected (and boy, does that affect how the kids behave).

The transient rate of students is high as they more from one apartment to another (you’re always playing catch-up).

They are lower level to begin with so you have to come up with more inventive ways to teach (they don’t read on-level so you need to come up with ways outside of the textbook).

Discipline is a MUCH bigger issue (yeah, yeah, I know there are problem at ALL schools… blah, blah, blah, Columbine…but on a day to day basis, it’s more of a challenge at a Title 1).

They are hungry or needy or homeless or don’t speak English as their native tongue.

Most of these issues aren’t helped with a National Board certificate.

It’s not that teachers don’t care - it’s that there’s only so much caring you can do, and at a certain point, if you want to keep doing this job, you may need to go to a school where you can feel like that’s happening.

By Stephanie Scoggin

November 23, 2005 08:49 AM | Link to this

There are two very important reasons why I am working on my NBCTS…it looks good on a resume’ and thirty-seven states accept this type of certification. After having lived here for fifteen years, I am leaving Georgia after my daughter graduates from high school. But to be grudgingly honest…the process has forced me to take a long hard look at my teaching craft, and there are some areas that I must admit needed some improvement…oh all right, darn it, I admit it…working on my boards is making me (gasp) a better teacher (whew)!

By Christina

November 23, 2005 10:28 AM | Link to this

I am a 3rd year teacher and new to Atlanta Public Schools. I am seriously considering going for my boards. There are 3 reasons for this. First, I want to be certfied in as many states as I can without having to take extra classes or the Praxis again. Secondly, I want to be a better teacher. Third, yes the pay increase. If I jump through the hoops, then yes I should be compensated for it. However, let’s go back to some of the arguments presented in previoius posts. I completely agree that having National Certification will not fix problems that have nothing to do with academics. Poverty, parents who don’t understand English, and odd home situations don’t make for the most conducive learning enviornment. I will say that those teachers I know with National certification are wonderful teachers, but I will also venture to say that these were wondeful teachers prior to seeking certification. Now teachers who do this are indeed motivated, but let’s be honest. No amount of money is going to motivate those who truly do not want to be there or do not like their jobs. If you are feeling burned out and unappreciated, the last thing you are going to want to do is spend $2,000 of your own HARD earned money on a proces that you may or may not pass! That’s the absolute kicker-I have to spend my own money for someone to tell me I passed (or in the case of some of our other posts-did not pass and not receive feedback). In North Carolina, the state actually pays for candidates seeking National Board certification-up front and allows two professional leave days to put together the box. Oh, and those teachers can remain at their schools-high performing or otherwise.
Why would Georgia politicians think that it is okay to reward someone for completing this arduous process by making them teach at different schools just for moeny? It would seem that the reward should be in paying teachers (regardless of NCB certification) more at these schools in the first place. That would be the incentive for them to stay at those schools, and then perhaps these teachers would be more inclined to seek NBC. By the way, my school in North Carolina was a Title I school, but was in a good neighborhood. My school in APS is also a Title I school, and is such a complete opposite.

By jim dumond

November 23, 2005 12:12 PM | Link to this

@luvs2teach

Thanks, I’m just not too sure all of what you said is quite factual, at least for some teachers. I know we often have a tendancy to generalize. But I do know of veteran teachers living in N.Gwinnett, traveling every day to S.Dekalb. I’m just not sure if is passion driven or insanity. Perhaps a bit of both.

Not being an educator myself though, I can’t help but think that making a difference in a childs life from a lower socio-economic background would be more satisfying than dealing with a group of kids that in all probability will get a college education regardless.

JMHO.

By luvs2teach

November 23, 2005 04:04 PM | Link to this

Jim - to an extent I was generalizing, based on what I’ve seen working at two Title 1 schools. This is what my co-workers and I talk about on a regular basis: Can I make it through another year here? Is it worth it?

The trends I mentioned are based in fact. Although I don’t have any statistics, I can tell you where to look: If you were to look at the AJC’s (or greatschools.net, although that info is a little dated), you would see a couple trends: first, look at the average years experience for teachers and compare a high performing school with a lower performing school. You will see that higher performing schools have teachers with more experience, and a greater percentage of teachers with 10 years or more.

Look also at transiency rate, free and reduced lunch rate, and ESOL percentage. You will find that those numbers tend to be higher in the lower performing schools (the ones with the less experienced teachers). Look at the PTA participation - higher in the higher performing schools.

Another place to look is the county webpages. If you were to go to a county’s human resource web page and look at the schools that are hiring, you will find more positions at the more challenging schools.

Are there schools that buck these trends? Sure, but they are in the minority, and it will take more than a few teachers with National Board Certification to turn a school around.

I’m not saying there isn’t a satisfaction in helping those kids - I happen to like it; that’s why I transferred to another Title 1 (just closer to my house). There are a lot of us out there (like your friends) that do enjoy the challenge of our particular student population. However, it is a challenge, and like all challenges, it can get to be too much. Just because I like it now, doesn’t mean I’ll still want to do it in 5 or 10 years.

By luvs2teach

November 23, 2005 04:35 PM | Link to this

After two off-topic posts, I figured I should address the question!

I had two colleagues go for NB certification. One made it; the other didn’t. The one that made it was a good teacher before - she’s still a good teacher now! The one that didn’t was a good teacher before - and he still is now! Is it the process or the paper certificate that makes you better? Do teachers that attempt the process already have a tendency to improve themselves? I don’t know.

I do think the certificate process is a valuable one. It forces you to really look at how you are teaching. I have seriously considered it; however, two things are keeping me from doing it right now.

The first is the cost. Although my county will help defray some of the cost, with a daughter currently in college, it’s too much for me right now. The second is that I am seriously considering putting my time and attention into something else - my Master’s, a gifted endorsement, or an ESOL endorsement. Those three items are going to help me more in my current job than the NB certificate would. They would also allow me more flexibility in future postions than the NB would.

As a parent, I’m impressed if a teacher is, but not concerned if a teacher is not.

By spedteach

November 29, 2005 11:42 AM | Link to this

I am a NBC teacher who made it just before the Title 1 requirement deadline. When I heard about this requirement I wondered who in their right mind would lay out $2300 and up to 3 years’ worth of their spare time to go through this arduous process unless they were already in a Title 1 school. After all, teaching in a Title 1 school qualifies you for student loan forgiveness from the federal government anyway, which amounts to more money in the bank for most teachers I know. I feel that the process truly helped me to be a more focused, organized teacher, but I wouldn’t have gone through with it if it weren’t for the money. I have taught students with severe behavior disorders in all kinds of schools for 11 years, but I must admit that it’s easier when I do it in a nice, clean school with lots of parent volunteers and administrators who are not too overwhelmed to treat their teachers to breakfast every so often. I wouldn’t choose to go back to a Title 1 school. The part that I find ironic is that despite the fact that I have two graduate education degrees, NBC, and an administrative degree (that I choose not to utilize), I am not considered qualified to teach my kids thanks to NCLB. I now have to go back and pay to get yet another certification! So many of my colleagues are planning on leaving special ed. and teaching in a general classroom once they meet this new requirement. They will have their pick of teaching jobs once they are certified in everything. If you have a child with special needs, you should be camped out on your congressman’s doorstep complaining about this!