Get Schooled

By YA

November 10, 2005 08:54 AM | Link to this

Some international teachers work out really well, and some don’t. Those that don’t cannot understand or assimilate the methodology of the American public system. I have worked in schools with VIF (Visiting International Faculty )teachers who bring with them a plethora of cultural and educational richness into the classroom. However, I think that VIF and other similar entities need to provide the international teachers with more thorough training on the American public school system before they are placed in a classroom. Besides culture schock, international teachers experience BUREAUCRACY shock when they find themselves completing and filing excessive paperwork, attending faculty, parent, department and school system meetings, attending to the social, emotional, physical and educational needs of each student, planning, designing, and publishing lesson plans, and ohhh yeah, I almost forgot—-TEACHING.

By oldteacher

November 10, 2005 09:02 AM | Link to this

I think that one of the things we forget with the international teachers is being able to understand the thick accents that some of them have. Yes, I know that I have a southern drawl, but guess what? We are in the south. Just like in real life, if I can’t understand you, I have a problem. I have asked for different doctors, salespeople, and bank teller so there can be fewer mistakes made.

By SET

November 10, 2005 10:17 AM | Link to this

It’s wrong for the government to bring in foreigners for employment in the USA when our own citizens can do the jobs.

As the economy changes many people are displaced as their old industries are distroyed (not necesarily a bad thing) and they have to change to new industries.

We can find teachers who are from other fields. - Say all the Information Techonology workers displaced by the new H1-B work Visa increases. Some of them would make good teachers. They have 4 year degrees and many have Masters degrees. They can teach secondary schools as well as Jr. Colleges. They can also manage elementry schools.

What must be done to wipe out the restrictive legislation calling for “education” degrees to teach. School Boards must be freed to make their own selection of teachers and not be limited to a pool of “education” classed candidates who are societies liberal losers anyway.

Retired Cops and career military would retire at 50 or so would make fine teachers - with or without the advanced degrees. I know many ex-military with Masters and Doctorates Degrees who don’t have the Education credits to teach in California secondary schools. (Lawyers, Drs, Nurses)

But the Catholic and Private Schools can hire them because they are not subject to the state laws requiring education credits to teach.

Once again, it’s wrong for this government (at all levels) to import foreigners to displace Americans in government work and in private industry. It’s disloyal and it appears as a war upon the people. Is the government firing it’s citizens??

By Marney

November 10, 2005 10:43 AM | Link to this

My kids have teachers from all over—it’s great. You should hear them switching accents. SET makes a good point about the monopoly that the Professional Standards Association has on “certifying” teachers. This is now being reinforced by the NCLB “highly qualified” requirements.

However, I dissagree with the whole idea that every Americans—no matter their capacity or interest in teaching must be employed before we have the first visiting faculty. We need to be sending as well as recieving guest teachers. Better yet—let’s send some of the BUREAUCRACY folks, and show them that Britian gets along just fine without local school boards or school buses. Maybe that bureaucracy shock others expierence when they hit our system should tell us something.

By belleabroad

November 10, 2005 11:15 AM | Link to this

Ex military, IT folks and others are NOT qualified to manage elementary schools. Not by a long shot. That is half the time what is wrong. You get folks in there that have no idea of the developmental aspects of education and the students they set out to “teach” and they get all messed up with the business side of things. And you DO need education experience/credits in order to be truly effective in the classroom. Teaching is both a science as well as an art. You need the knowledge to back up the art of it all. Research based teaching knowledge is something that we need far more of, not less of, in our current school systems. That way we have less teachers flying by the seat of their pants with the attitudes that “it worked my my momma and my grandma” when it comes to classroom management and other such areas. I love the corporate world in a way, but it doesn’t really directly correlate to a classroom or school.

By Leia

November 10, 2005 11:22 AM | Link to this

belleabroad - Thanks for saying that! I cannot tell you how many times we’ve had people come in with a provisional certificate from the corporate world and think that because they are masters at their craft, that they can come in and teach high school students! The record turnaround was one day! The guy came in on a Monday and quit by 2:10 the same day. He had no idea how much other stuff is involved in teaching. This is a calling, not just a job.

By Dan

November 10, 2005 11:30 AM | Link to this

SET I agree with some of your points particularly to many unneeded restrictions. But on the other hand, many foreign students come here and excel, despite the fact they are far more “disadvantaged” then some of the born and bred americans, because they do not take the myriad of opportunities here for granted, they don’t deem it their “right” to have someone educate them. Perhaps foreign teachers, unsullied (at least temporarily) by the turbulent political and professional bickering that abounds, can see through that to the opportunity and excel as well. (Although I still don’t know how I passed Econ in college, I could only understand about 1 out of 5 words my Indian professor said) Net net Americans need to compete with the rest of the world as with any business or institution if you up pay more for less or even more for the same that bus/institution will fail.

By oldteacher

November 10, 2005 01:15 PM | Link to this

We too have had some corporate type come in and try to teach. They didn’t last long. They did not know how to manage a classroom. Just because you tell a kid to sit down and be quiet doesn’t mean that they are going to. We also had one who said that he was hired to teach and nothing else. He refused to do any of the other duties that we have always done. I think he lasted a week.

There is nothing wrong with bringing in highly qualified teachers who are not native born American.

By teacher

November 10, 2005 01:36 PM | Link to this

What is wrong with people from other areas going through what is required and what all of us had to go through to get a teachers cert. and a teaching job. If you want to be a lawyer you do what it takes to be a lawyer. If you want to be an accountant you do what it takes to be an accountant. I came from the business world(25 years) but had to go back and take many courses after my BA degree and go through all kinds of cost and time to get cert. to teach in just one subject. None of the credit applied toward a masters. We have already watered down the requirments so much that someone can become a teacher with half of what it took us others just 12 years ago. If you want to teach do what it takes. Thats what they tell everyone in the business world.

By SET

November 10, 2005 01:50 PM | Link to this

I was mulling this over on the way to work. The government is not “firing” the citizens of this country. They are replacing the citizens of the USA.

I’d love to have an exotic foreign teacher as a high school student and may benefit in some ways.

But it is still wrong for a nation to do this to it’s people… To replace the people.

By Dan

November 10, 2005 02:07 PM | Link to this

So teacher did all of those courses benefit you? Or could you have done just as well with half or a third? Asking not opining.

By Ems

November 10, 2005 02:19 PM | Link to this

Speaking from my experience, I only really needed about half of my ed. courses. But, I would have been LOST without them because I teach in a school where classroom management is THE most important skill you can have. People from the business world would not likely have these skills on their own.

By Dan

November 10, 2005 02:24 PM | Link to this

Clearly there is a difference in managing kids, particularly pre-teens But wouldn’t some of the business skills of leading and managing people,translate pretty well. In my experience be it in business or as a student or as a coach, certain individuals simply command attention very well. You can teach some of that but not all.

By belleabroad

November 10, 2005 02:38 PM | Link to this

yes, you can only teach some of that charisma that certain folks have, however, we can’t loose sight of the fact that knowing a subject well and TEACHING a subject well are vastly different things. In the secondary levels their is a much greater chance of surviving teaching without all the education courses, however in the elementary spectrum, no way. It should not be, even if it could be done. There is so much at stake and so much to know about why they learn what and how they do. I do agree that oftentimes our teacher programs allow some pretty unqualified folks out of them, much to my dismay. I wish I could say differently. However, we all know that this is true of any program in college. I have been in corporate long enough to know that there are folks with degrees walking around that don’t have a lick of sense in their head. Teaching is much the same, you have brilliant folks, and a few knuckleheads that draw the focus from what it should be… and that is providing a great education for students.

By posterchild

November 10, 2005 02:46 PM | Link to this

I’m sorry, this is a bit off topic, but what does this “a*” thing that I keep seeing in various blogs on the AJC mean? I am quite the blog geek, and I have never seen this before in my life.

By teacher

November 10, 2005 02:50 PM | Link to this

The courses I took did make a big difference. Three months of student teaching helped a whole lot and I wish I had more and believe they offer more these days. The point I was trying to make is that if that is what has been required and people spend a lot of time and money to get it and get the requirments for the job then just because we need teahcers because they are not treated right, it is not fair to let others to the same thing with far less reqiurments. We are talking about taking away a large amount of someones life to do what they need to do what they want to do. Then you let others do it for far less. Just not fair and we wonder why teachers leave. How would the lawyers feel if they just decided that you only had to have a four year degree in anything and work any job in the court room for 1 year and become a lawyer.

By posterchild

November 10, 2005 02:58 PM | Link to this

Teacher: Valid point with letting people switch to being lawyers!

By Marney

November 10, 2005 02:58 PM | Link to this

SET Unless you are one of the few native Americans that the European germs and guns did not kill off, you need to consider that your ancestors came from some other place. Unlike the French—who have an official language, religion, and ethnicity—Americans are all mutts. The immigrant bargin is that: Whatever rank or position you had in your old country no longer matters, all are equvalent before the law. The riots in France right now are because of the bigotry that made it impossible for non-white and non-Christian immigrants to feel that they were “French”, even after several generations. We are still feeling the echos of pain from the 200 years that we refused to extend the immigrant bargin to those who are dark skinned. Let’s not make that misstake again.

Forgive any typos please.

By SWC

November 10, 2005 03:23 PM | Link to this

“We need to be sending as well as recieving guest teachers”

I don’t know the name of the program, but at my nephew’s school in Maine his math teacher is in an exchange program for a year: He is in South Africa teaching while a South African is teaching in Maine.

Marney - Sorry to have to respond to your politics, but I can’t leave what you said about “The French Problem” unanswered. The problem is caused by a Socialist welfare state which welcomed in North Africans from former French colonies out of (Christian) guilt. They are better off than they were in North Africa, but have never had any NEED to assimilate because they were handed everything by the French govt.

Now we live in the world of radical Imans and Islamofascism, and we are dealing with people who hate all Western civilization, all Jews, all Americans, you name it they hate us. They want to turn France, America and the world into an Islamic state run with Islamic law. This is the end game - it is not to feel welcomed by the French or to enchance their self-esteem. They want to destroy you and me and moderate Muslims - everyone who does not follow their depraved thinking. So PLEASE stop the anti-American, anti-Western blame game and stop aiding and abetting the enemy with your encouraging words.

By Dan

November 10, 2005 03:42 PM | Link to this

Well the lawyer point is not really valid at all. The lawyers that put their time in would LOVE to see the fast food lawyers across the aisle. It would make their job easier. Conversly if one of them was sharp enough to become a partner they would also appreciate the cash he is bringing in to the company. Net net it isn’t about being fair, it is about the best way to teach the students. And the most efficient way to get enough qualified teachers

By SWC

November 10, 2005 04:00 PM | Link to this

I just got “a*”ed! Is this because the first part of the word is another word for donkey and is bowdlerized by an ajc computerized censor?

Lets try this and see if we get past the censors: replace “a*” with donkey+imilate.

By Karen Armsby

November 11, 2005 08:25 AM | Link to this

SWC, They also censored my ‘graduate magna cum laude,’ assist, assign, and assess. I wonder if s** mushrooms will get past?

By Karen Armsby

November 11, 2005 08:28 AM | Link to this

SWC, I guess we just have to guess the word from the context of the statement.

By Margaret Dynes

November 11, 2005 12:37 PM | Link to this

As a Visiting International Faculty teacher recruited at considerable expense by VIF from the furtherest area of New Zealand teaching in a fantastic school in Gwinnett County Public schools I would have to agree with this comment. Not all the VIF teachers like teaching in USA. It is a tremendously data driven and testing orientated system here with incredible language and vocabulary expectations in Science, Social studies, Math and reading for students, who don’t have English as their first language. I am enjoying the American staff, students and life outside of school but my first priority is to VIF, the students I teach and the expectation that I am a cultural ambassador for my country, New Zealand within the school and community. I want my students to learn about the world outside of America as well as pass all their tests. I have also travelled to many other countries and want them to know first hand about these countries also.

By Marney

November 11, 2005 01:42 PM | Link to this

SWC I thought I was saying that America has alway been the best in the world at absorbing many voices into a stronger whole. I agree that there are many who hate us for this, won’t ever be convinced to live by the American core value of “equality”, and seek to destroy us before this value creeps into their society and threatens their ability to control others through intimidation.

Acknowleging that we already made the minor adjustment(blacks are equal too) 40 years ago that France is presently doing some soul searching about, is not America-bashing.

This in no way compares to the actions of the Terroists in Jordan—and it is “burn in hell, Al-Zargawi” that the Jordanians are yelling in the streets today. We will win the war of ideas, but let’s be smart enough not to let the enemy provoke us into becoming more like him.

By SWC

November 11, 2005 04:07 PM | Link to this

Marney - You said: “Unless you are one of the few native Americans that the European germs and guns did not kill off…”

And you said: “The riots in France right now are because of the bigotry that made it impossible for non-white and non-Christian immigrants to feel that they were “Frenchâ€?, even after several generations. Unlike the French—who have an official language, religion, and ethnicity—Americans are all mutts…

That sounds like blaming the white guy to me and is historically incorrect to boot: France does not have an official religion. The French have various “ethnicities” - but unlike those who are stuck on the premise of multi-culturalism they just don’t DEFINE themselves by their ethnicity. A Christian Frenchman or a Jewish Frenchman is still a Frenchman. As far as the “mutt” comment goes - include me out of that category.

By Lee

November 14, 2005 08:29 AM | Link to this

This thread is too funny. The same posters who say that you can’t take a retired Engineer and let him teach a Math class sees nothing wrong with letting someone come into this country from abroad and turn them loose in the classroom.

Go figure….

By Marney

November 14, 2005 10:17 AM | Link to this

Ok, I need to apologize, if two of you took my first comments as America bashing, I need to start writing longer essays to explain myself better.

So I will suggest the books that inform my position. The “guns and germs” reference come from the book: “Guns, Germs, and Steel, the Fates of Human Societies” by Jared Diamond. It is a Pulitzer Prize winning discussion of why some cultures overwhelm others when they touch. It discusses many such instances—and the historic fact that the European culture easily cleaned out the indiginous American ones is discussed without resorting to either glorifying or villifying the Europeans.

“Reinventing the Melting Pot, the new immigrants and what it means to be American” by Tamar Jacoby is an excellent collection of essays from many viewpoints on the history of immigrantion and how that has created a uniquely American culture whose roots are widespread and ultimately stronger. There is a lot of bashing of the “group preferences” of “multiculturalism” as well as racism in our history. But it ultimately paints a positive picture of our collective future.

“Through our enemies eyes: Osama Bin Laden, Radical Islam and the future of America” by Michael Scheuer is an extremely scary picture of why suggesting equality and multiculturalism to the extremists is laughable.

“The myth of the Common School” by Charles Leslie Glenn is a comparision of the history of the public education systems in the US, France, and Belgum. and specificly how each system has dealt with the tension between enforcing a common values prescribed by the state and respecting the unique values that may be held by the family.

In France the public educational system was set up by the Jacobians after the French revolution with the direct intension of undermining the power and moral authority of the Catholic Church. They have been largely successful in this objective (just ask the Pope). Do you remember the protests last year about the government forbiding the wearing of crosses by children going to their public schools? Can you imagine the American government ever forbiding the wearing of crosses by chidren as a precondition for recieving a public education. The French forbid that at the same time they banned headscarfs, which was widely seen as an attempt to impose the Athiest positions of a country that has no problem with nude beaches on a minority that values modesty.

I don’t know the true cause of the unrest or to what degree it is being manipulated by the enemy—the French must judge that. I do know that the US has not seen this kind of rioting for a long time—even in the face of the bickering over the Katrina response. History will judge—but please consider reading some of these interesting books.

Please forgive typos.