Get Schooled

By teacherteacher

October 24, 2005 11:36 AM | Link to this

I think every American needs to read Nicholas Lemann’s The Big Test, an intellectual history regarding the industry and ideology behind testing. The SAT couldn’t be used the way it is currently being used until the creator died…Read the book…

The SAT is a monopoly and a racket, something that correlates more with parent’s SES than with student body intelligence. As long as much of Georgia remains poor and we continue pressing all students to take the test, Georgia’s SAT scores will remain near the bottom. And as long as we remain wedded to this testing regime, we can expect the number of dropouts to grow, as school becomes increasingly irrelevant and removed from the realities facing many of our most needy students.

On that tip, what are the problems Georgia has that should result in head hanging? Teacher quality? The curriculum? The fact that educrats rather than teachers make all the decisions? The reduction of “educated” to earning high test scores? The circumvention of democratic idealism in the name of economic competition?

How about we hang our heads in shame over the fact that we are slowly but surely removing the word education from school and replacing it with training…

By RF

October 24, 2005 11:38 AM | Link to this

Well, I know as a teacher we’re not last, but even 30-40% scoring below basic is discouraging. It’s not the curriculum, it’s not the teachers, it’s not the parents or children. It’s all of the above. As a society, we have devalued education and made schools ‘the enemy’. We’re failing to work together to stress the importance of education. Our schools are full of kids who don’t want to learn, and full of curricula that just don’t engage kids anymore, and surrounding that are communities of adults who don’t seem to care as much as they used to about children succeeding. When parent(s) are involved with teachers and kids, and we work together, the kids succeed. When any one of us in that group fails to do the job, the kids fail. It’s that simple. Georgia isn’t last, but when teachers reach out and parents reach in, the kids can, and will, do better.

By Robert

October 24, 2005 12:00 PM | Link to this

No single test should ever make or break a student or a school system (including an entire States school system). There are other indicators to use: entrances into upper tier colleges, GPA, and so on.

By Jake

October 24, 2005 12:33 PM | Link to this

I don’t understand this anti-testing, anti-SAT bias. Is it fair that SAT scores largely decide who gets into Tech and UGA and who has to go to West Georgia? Absolutely. It’s objective and measurable and the same for everyone. Does it measure how well Georgia is educating its students compared to other states? Absolutely, in regard to the subject matter tested (math and English). Can you farily compare state to state just using the average scores? No. You have to look at the percentage of students taking the test and the racial makeup. With those in mind Georgia is not last, but we’re still lower than most of us parents would like.

By oldteacher

October 24, 2005 12:37 PM | Link to this

What do you mean it determines who has to go to West Georgia? I don’t know what the regulations are now but when I went to college, students who couldn’t get into West Georgia, went to UGA.

By Manny

October 24, 2005 12:54 PM | Link to this

Actually, the SAT does not determine who gets into Tech, UGA, or West Georgia - it’s how many points you can put up on the boards, and how well your ball-handling skills are!

By Leia

October 24, 2005 12:58 PM | Link to this

I just proctored the PSAT last week, and it was shameful how many students just bubbled in their names and slept until the exam was over!

Why do we even waste the money allowing every 10th grade student to take the PSAT? Not only is it a waste of funds, but, it also makes us “look bad” when compared to other systems.

I think the PSAT should be offered to those students who actually want to take the exam, and optional for those who could care less.

By Rich

October 24, 2005 12:59 PM | Link to this

Georgia is last because the adults are dumb too. Georgia is number one in ignorance and intolerance. Hellooooo, can you say red state????

By Ann

October 24, 2005 01:17 PM | Link to this

Why are we paying for students to take the test anyway? In my home state of Pennsylvania, only students who are interested in going to college take the SAT, and they foot the bill for it. So, of course, PA’s scores are going to be higher, they have students taking the test who actually care about how well they do. Think about it…if I am not planning on going to college, and I have to sit for a three hour test, I am not going to try at all. Why would I? It’s a big waste of time. No wonder GA is at the bottom of the barrel…they’ve got non-college-bound students taking college entrance exams. Riiight…

By oldteacher

October 24, 2005 01:27 PM | Link to this

Which students get the SAT paid for by the school? None that I know of.

By HSTeach

October 24, 2005 01:27 PM | Link to this

ah yes, the last throes usually are the most violent she’s not helping her cause any….since she’s been in office, there has been stastistical evidence to show our scores going DOWN!!! So much for leading the nation in improvement….i love politics….don’t you?

By RF

October 24, 2005 01:28 PM | Link to this

Rich—sounds like you speak from personal experience…

By Taxpayer

October 24, 2005 01:41 PM | Link to this

As far as I know, DeKalb County pays for ninth-graders to take the PSAT. And yes, while my child took it recently, many of her classmates slept, made patterns by randomly filling in bubbles, etc. (my friend proctered the exam and told me). DeKalb also pays transportation costs for students who want to transfer from their schools because of inadequate AYP under NCLB. Several DeKalb schools and others around the state have received some pretty fat grants to bring in the basically useless Freshman Academy program, which does little more than force the freshmen into another typing class and sequester them from the rest of the school. We are already throwing plenty of money at education problems, but is the money actually going where it’s needed? Let parents pay for their kids to take the PSAT and SAT. If parents want their kids to go to a school in a district far, far away, then let the parents pay for it. Instead of busing kids, how about providing tutors in their home schools? Instead of paying for kids to take these tests, how about provide some test-taking courses for them so that they know the ins and outs of the SAT and PSAT so that they can boost their scores? Those Freshman Academy funds could be used to hire some more teachers, provide more training, bring in tutors, buy a few more textbooks, and provide many other much more useful things. We in Georgia are indeed ignorant if we think: 1)the SAT & PSAT will ever go away; 2) we pay for everybody to do anything they wish within the education system; 3)we keep wasting money on solutions that aren’t solutions; and 4) we vote Kathy Cox back into office.

By The Coach

October 24, 2005 01:43 PM | Link to this

My question is simple. Why do we tell all students that they should go to college? If we would get past this and teach kids that there are plenty of options other than college, then scores on college entrance exams would go up, college and high school drop out rates would drop, and overall our schools would improve. I know I am making a lot of broad statements here, but from where I’m sitting, alot of it makes sense.

By HSTeach

October 24, 2005 01:45 PM | Link to this

I’m thinking about running for office…I am a teacher, I only have 4 years of experience, and I have absolutely no political agenda whatsoever….oh, and I’m dead broke b/c I’m a teacher….do you think I have a chance? are the dems or independents running anyone against Cox in 06?

By RF

October 24, 2005 01:54 PM | Link to this

Taxpayer—actually the “fat grant” for Freshman Academy comes with LOTS of requirements. It’s working well in many, many schools helping ninth graders bridge the gap from middle to high school. I spend most days after school in team meetings, SST meetings, etc. trying to help parents and children through freshman academy. Before we had it, our freshman failure rate was off the charts. You should perhaps look into an academy program in detail before you judge. If your school isn’t doing what it should, then the grant money will be lost. It’s not a money cushion for us to sit upon. We have to make it work, and so far it seems to be working in many cases to help the ninth graders succeed.

By Ernest

October 24, 2005 02:01 PM | Link to this

Taxpayer, my understanding is the PSATs were paid for with Title 1 monies. I seem to recall last school year, that was the case for all Title 1 middle schools when they offered the test. You and others do raise a good point that unless you have ‘skin in the game’, you don’t have a vested interest in the outcome. Again, my understanding was the school system would use the results for ‘measurements’ with hopes of providing targeted instructional assistance. How can one measure if some of the test takers don’t give a hoot about the test?

Your point on the school system paying transportation costs is right as this is one of the ‘unfunded mandates’ many talk about with NCLB. This legislation could transport more children than M to M ever did. I’ve heard ‘rumblings’ from some schools that made AYP made ‘purposely’ try to fail, in a category such as attendance. This is an area of the law that definitely needs tweaking. When you look at the transportation costs and compare them to possible staff supplementation, one has to wonder where the break even point is.

By Bama Chick

October 24, 2005 02:04 PM | Link to this

Wait a second… Georgia foots the bill for kids to take the SAT’s??? And they pay for EVERY kid to take it, not just the college bound kids? Hello, that is where the lottery money is going! In my home state (Alabama) I had to pay to take the SAT and the ACT (which is what most Bama kids take) out of my own pocket. You bet I studied my tail off! Georgia may be last in SAT’s, but that is because they are skewing their own results!

By Jake

October 24, 2005 02:08 PM | Link to this

Cox and Perdue are responsible. I know the free website satonline was at least doing something, but I doubt it will raise the scores very much. It sounds like we a complete overhaul of the public school system, not an SAT tutorial website.

By Teacher, Too

October 24, 2005 02:25 PM | Link to this

I have no problem with any of the college boards being used as part of an admission acceptance. Many of the top public universities look for more than just a test score- community involvement as only one example. However,until parents, teachers, and administrators hold STUDENTS accountable for classwork and homework, then test scores will continue to decline. I try to challenge all my students and hold them accountable, and most of the their parents make them accountable as well. But, there are always those parents who do not hold their child accountable by making excuses for them. Yes, test scores will come up when teachers are able to teach challenging curriculum, without watering it down, and students are held accountable to learning the curriculum by studying at home and at school. Far too many students do not complete their homework, if any homework is even given. This does bring us to a different topic- homework. Some believe in it, and some do not. It's ridiculous to think that teachers can teach everything in their curriculum in 50-60 minutes a day and expect students to remember it without studying it at home. Another subject for another day, though.

By Teacher, Too

October 24, 2005 02:28 PM | Link to this

Sorry, my entire comment did not flow correctly through cyber space. I will try and recreate it, though. Stay tuned!

By Taxpayer

October 24, 2005 02:29 PM | Link to this

RF, I did research the Freshman Academy program by visiting two schools that already have it in place and by reviewing 38 websites and the Dept. of Ed. website to find out what it is all about. I believe that it is money well spent for kids who are low achievers, learning disabled, or in need of special attention and help. But why put ALL the kids in the program? I think the answer is that the school systems want the money. If this program is working well for you and your students and your school, I am truly glad. But please don’t assume that I am offering an assessment without adequate research or evaluation.

By Rich

October 24, 2005 02:50 PM | Link to this

Georgia IS last. Spin it any way you want.

By Teacher, Too

October 24, 2005 02:54 PM | Link to this

College Board testing is fine as long as it's PART of the admissions policy. Many top universities use the SAT or ACT score as part of the picture. For example, grade point average and community service, extracurricular activities are all part of a complete college application. I do think that entrance exam scores would definitely go up if students were held accountable to the curriculum. And I do mean a challenging curriculum, not the watered-down mess we currently teach. A challenging curriculum cannot be taught in 50-55 minutes of class time. Students must study at home- reviewing notes and completing homework. Certainly, many teachers and parents resist homework because they think it's meaningless. I beg to differ. Homework should encourage thoughtful reflection of concepts taught in class and promote study habits. If a student says he/she doesn't have homework, what does this say about study habits? (However, this is definitely a topic for another day.) We (not just the state of Georgia, but as a nation) are falling behind other countries. Until we ALL, parents, teachers, students, administrators- everyone, start focusing on academics and fostering an educational atmosphere in all our schools, we will continue to lag behind. (I say this because not only do I teach in a school where students appear to come for social reasons rather than academic ones. Good Morning, America recently followed two high school students, one up North and one in China. A telling statement was this- and I am paraphrasing- the American student said that she is going to college to play a sport; the Chinese student said that she is going to college to study engineering.)

By RF

October 24, 2005 02:58 PM | Link to this

Taxpayer—thanks for the qualification of your opinion. There are many here who offer blanket opinions without the research. FA depends on the school doing it and how successful they want it to be. Like any program, it will help those who need it most, and the kids at the top will inevitably stay at the top without it. Many schools also have other grants and Title I (federal) money to help pay for programs and teachers they need. There’s a great deal of grant money and federal money available to supplement state and local funds for those schools that have the initiative to apply. Most schools are also offering Advanced Placement and Honors classes even to those in Freshman Academy. It’s really not a bad program (and I generally disparage most “program” approaches to education).

By RF

October 24, 2005 03:00 PM | Link to this

Also, I think you would agree that smaller learning “communities”, which I am sure you read about while researching FA, really do benefit all the kids by helping manage the size of groups of kids teachers must work with. Even those performing at the top of the heap benefit from a little attention and encouragement.

By Sarah

October 24, 2005 03:02 PM | Link to this

I am of two minds when it comes to the SAT. I don’t have a problem using tests to judge academic knowledge. How else would you determine what a child knows? Using average scores to compare educational progress from state to state does not make statistical sense. I know that in Iowa, for instance, state scores are very high. However, in general, in Iowa only the top students take the test. In the North Carolina district where my children attend and my husband teaches, almost 70% of students take the test - many, many of whom have not taken the math or English classes they need to be prepared to do well on the test. If we want to compare apples to apples, let’s see how the top 20 or so percent of students in each state score.

By RF

October 24, 2005 03:05 PM | Link to this

Rich—have you been to Louisiana or Mississippi lately? I graduated in GA and I can actually spell. What an anomaly huh?? You’re allowed your opinion, but show me the irrefutible data to prove it.

By Taxpayer

October 24, 2005 03:11 PM | Link to this

Thanks, RF, for the additional information. I respect and appreciate your opinion (and the work that you do). Unfortunately, the smaller learning communities are not working in my child’s school. Classes are so jammed with AYP transfers that courses with room for only 22 students are now jammed with 35 or MORE.

Does anyone else think that some of these great programs — AYP transfers for just about any reason and PSATs and SATs for everyone for free — are just creating more problems than they solve? Maybe some of that Title I money could go toward improving technical and vocational education in our state instead of funding tests for kids who don’t care.

Since my child’s school is packed to the walls and desperately in need of teachers, I am really angry about all the money that has been wasted to bus in AYP transfers, some of which made the switch to be with their friends!

Are our tax coffers so full in our state and our country that we can afford this kind of waste?

By Patti Ghezzi

October 24, 2005 03:19 PM | Link to this

FYI: Georgia does NOT pay for kids to take the SAT. The state pays for every tenth grader to take the PSAT. The rationale is that kids who take the PSAT tend to do better on the SAT, just because they have had the practice and know what to expect.

By Rich

October 24, 2005 03:20 PM | Link to this

Ooops! Tied for last. My mistake. Guess that was my spin. Brilliant!

By RF

October 24, 2005 03:22 PM | Link to this

Taxpayer—you’re seeing the downside of being in a “good school”, aren’t you? Unfortunately, unless systems begin placing limits on transfers, that’s going to be the case. Personally, I think after a certain number of transfers out of a school, the system should clean out administrators and teachers, and start over with a new crew. We don’t need more money, we just need to clean house in underperforming schools. I read all the time about schools that turn things around and are moving up. Takes courage from parents, teachers, and a visionary administration to do it. Why is it we just throw more money at problems these days, or generate more paperwork to prove we’re doing something useful? You have every right to be fed up. I just left a county that is struggling with AYP and transfers. Got on my nerves, let me tell you!

I completely agree about the PSAT and SAT. I have monitored them many times over the years, and it is insane to pay 30+ dollars per child, plus costs for monitors and facilities so a bunch of kids who don’t care can have a good nap. I used to teach in a county that swore by it as a tool for preparing for the real SAT. Didn’t help!!

By RF

October 24, 2005 03:25 PM | Link to this

Patti—most metro systems pay for ninth graders to take the PSAT. That’s where the confusion comes from. Some have for years in an attempt to help improve SAT scores. I used to be in Clayton county, and we paid for thousands to take the PSAT every year.

By Taxpayer

October 24, 2005 03:26 PM | Link to this

Patti, SOMEONE paid for my child to take the PSAT in 9th grade, and it wasn’t me. Where did that money come from? The school? The county? Santa Claus? Please, I am frustrated and worried. Do YOU know how these things get funded? When I contact my child’s school, I either have a phone message taken with no return call or my e-mail goes unanswered. Thanks.

By Dan

October 24, 2005 03:27 PM | Link to this

Let me get right to the point of the argument “your last is worse than my last Nyah, nyah, nyah. (insert Bronx cheer here) ” Geez is it just me or is the fact there are people even arguing this issue more telling than any test or ranking system

By Rich

October 24, 2005 03:36 PM | Link to this

The Northern states are just smarter. Period. It’s well known.

By Taxpayer

October 24, 2005 03:36 PM | Link to this

RF, thanks for the info. The DeKalb system is apparently paying for the tests for 9th-graders, too, at a tremendous cost and with outrageous waste.

By RF

October 24, 2005 03:42 PM | Link to this

Thousands every year, Taxpayer, if not tens of thousands wasted for ninth graders to take a test that I would bet less than 5% volunteered to take. That’s why I left metro and headed south to the country. We have less money and fewer places to waste it.

By Patti Ghezzi

October 24, 2005 03:45 PM | Link to this

Taxpayer, Funding can come from the feds (Title I), the state, the local school district or, in theory, the school’s PTA or PTO. If your school’s principal or assistant principal can’t tell you how the test is funded, I’d give the school district central office a call. At least, you should be able to get a human being on the phone…

By Rich

October 24, 2005 03:45 PM | Link to this

Headed South? You did graduate in GA.

By Rich

October 24, 2005 03:51 PM | Link to this

Georgia IS last. Always has been last, always will be last.

By abc

October 24, 2005 04:22 PM | Link to this

When I was a kid, we took PSAT in the 11th grade as an indicator of how everyone would test on SAT, and having that knowledge weighed upon the student’s decision whether to continue on to college or not. It was used for scholarship qualifications, too. I scored in the top 1/10th of 1%, but still didn’t get any scholarships from it due to Affirmative Action at the time: an African American girl that scored 48 points lower than I did got a 4 year ride to William and Mary though. (I still endorse Affirmative Action; that’s another flame war though!)

Rich’s rudeness has some truth to it. Southern education has ALWAYS lagged behind the rest of the country.

Sarah: Iowa also leads the nation with a graduation rate of 93%. Surrounding midwestern states likewise lead the nation in percentage of students that go to college after high school. The notion that more Georgia students taking the test skews the rankings in some way that’s independent of actual academic achievement is not true, IMHO.

By Kym

October 24, 2005 04:32 PM | Link to this

Georgia is last because they dumb down the education system so that the number dont reflect how truly lacking our education system really is. College is not for everyone, and there was a time when it was noble for a young man or young lady to as the old folks said. “Getting a trade” What happen to shop class, I am in my mid 30’s and grew up in Atlanta. Our high school had shop class. Maybe we should focus on getting these kids who are not college ready into some other professions. An stop wasting money preparing them for a test they are doom to fail anyway.

By jennifer

October 24, 2005 04:37 PM | Link to this

Bama Chick- No, not all of Georgia pays for students to take the test. I know I had to pay for my son to take the test. However, I am not certain if all counties and schools are the same. I know in the Atlanta Public School System I had to pay for the test to be taken.

I am originally from Illinois and did not take the SAT but I took the ACT instead. I paid for it, too, not the school or the state.

I think a lot of Georgia’s problem is the backwards (back woods) thinking that a lot of people here still have. When you aren’t ready to change with the times then you will stay behind.

By SM

October 25, 2005 08:58 AM | Link to this

All Georgia schools pay for the 9th-11th grades to take the PSAT. The state does not pay for the students to take the SAT or the ACT. Georgia does not discriminate against who takes any of these tests. That is part of the reason why Georgia is at the bottom of the rankings. Maybe if Georgia discriminated against students it would have a higher ranking. Lets not let the bottom of the lot or the disabled take the test—they have no dreams of going to college and doing great things. ONLY the middle and upper class caucasion students want to go to college. Only they can actually be somebody and do great things.
Jake- to compare the scores state to state why must you compare the racial makeup? What is the purpose of that? Do you feel minorities are the reason this state is not doing so well?
The other reason our state ranks at the bottom is the curriculm the students are taught. When test time comes the teachers are made to switch focus. They must now prep the students to take the PSAT, SAT, and/or the ACT. Go into a school around standardized test time—elementary-through high school—and see what the students are being taught. Oh and yes the schools do provide test prep classes before and after school and on weekends. If you don’t like your child’s school do like the other parents did and take your child out. Schools that have children leaving to go to other schools usually tend to have lots of problems. They are always overcrowded. However sometimes they are good schools that just had a bad year. They must do good for 3 or 5 years before they can be taken off the failing list. Also I am a product of New York Schools as well as APS and Fulton County Schools.

By ZH

October 25, 2005 09:02 AM | Link to this

Hey Rich, I think by “headed south” he means out of the Metro Atlanta area. Correct me if I’m wrong, but you can go south of Atlanta and still be in the state of Georgia.

And don’t give me that line about “The Northern States are smarter.” Talk about a screaming stereotype…

By oldteacher

October 25, 2005 09:06 AM | Link to this

Sorry, ALL Georgia school do not pay for their students to take the PSAT.

By oldteacher

October 25, 2005 09:07 AM | Link to this

Oops. I was trying to get in before my first set of students came in and made a couple of type O’s. Forgive me.

By RF

October 25, 2005 09:26 AM | Link to this

SM—check your facts and read back through the posts. THE STATE PAYS FOR TENTHGRADERS TO TAKE THE PSAT. SOME SYSTEMS PAY FOR NINTH GRADERS TO TAKE THE TEST. Very few, if any, pay for eleventh graders to take the PSAT.

While I agree we need to cut down on how many we have taking the SAT considering how the scores are viewed, I can’t say we need to keep disabled students or anyone else who is interested in college from taking the SAT. We have to offer kids the opportunity, even if they decide not to go to college.

By Karen Armsby

October 25, 2005 09:32 AM | Link to this

RF, I think SM was talking tongue in cheek. The topic here is about how Georgia scores on the SAT, not PSAT. But since so many students take the PSAT, it makes you wonder why those who scored so poorly on the PSAT don’t take the hint and focus on a non college study track. Do the counselors even talk about PSAT scores or advise students that college may not be for them? Or is that not PC?

By RF

October 25, 2005 09:46 AM | Link to this

Karen— you know, I really don’t know how schools handle PSAT scores and charting results. Before we had online registration, some schools I know of did counsel kids about college options and guided many to take the ACT if their college of choice didn’t prefer SAT scores. Some schools still require a meeting with counselors to get a registration book, but that doesn’t stop kids from registering online anyway. There’s a misconception in GA that any kid who is thinking about college needs to take the SAT and take it several times. My school meets with every junior and his/her parents to discuss PSAT scores, grades, and future plans. I don’t know how many schools do that. Seems like they should, doesn’t it? You’re right, it wouldn’t be PC to tell kids they shouldn’t go to college. I suspect that would be a bit illegal too.

By Kym

October 25, 2005 09:56 AM | Link to this

Karen- I agree with you 100%. School counselors have access to career and interest building programs that could be most effective in determining if a student is college-bound or needs to seek another career path. Pardon me but the whole point is to develop a highly trained and skilled workforce in the future. SM, I dont the dig is at minority students. College is not for everyone and if you take a walk down the hallways of some of metro Atlanta public schools, everyone is not behaving or perform like they are getting prepared for college. Who’s fault is that? What happen to personal responsiblity? Because that is something that is truly lacking in our school system today. I am a black woman and the product of the Dekalb Public School System. I choose the college career track because it was my interest. My guidance counselor and parent taught me to prepare ahead, and think of the future.

By Kym

October 25, 2005 09:58 AM | Link to this

Pardon the typos havent had my coffee this morning.

By leftbehind

October 25, 2005 10:35 AM | Link to this

I know why Georgia is last. My son is in kindergarten. He is supposedly in the top class in his school. Each day he brings home a book to read. If he reads it correctly he gets to bring another book home. The books get progressively more difficult each day. Vowels go from short to long with silent “e’s”. Double consonants are added. He has progressed rapidly through the first 10-15 books. Currently we are starting to stall out because the books are full of phonics concepts that he is not working on in class. Several other children in the class are dealing with the same issue. In class a worksheet is given- students are asked to color all pictures that start with the “P” sound. Many kids in the class are way passed what words start with “p”. If we are expected to read double consonants and long vowel sounds, etc. shouldn’t the worksheets we do go along with our reading. This is just one of the reasons Georgia is lagging behind. Children that are ready to be challenged or move ahead are being held back at the expense of those who are not. My son is having to complete kindergarten classwork and homework, but he is also having to do supplemental activities (that I come up with) at home to go along with the reading assignments the school is giving. I understand why some choose to homeschool.

By SouthernGuy

October 25, 2005 10:40 AM | Link to this

Southern states lag below many northern states not due to the intelligence of the top residents of those states, but due to the differences in how the bottom percentages fare. Poor performance on educational tests largely falls along the lines of the percentages of people in poverty. In Mississippi, the persons listed below poverty (according to the U.S. Census Bureau) are 19.9 percent. That is compared to 13 percent in Georgia and a mere 9.1 percent in Iowa. It would also be noteworthy to some of you that African Americans make up larger percentages of Southern states as a whole. I say this not to state that African Americans are any less intelligent than anyone else, but historically, this group has been hammered hard by a society that doesn’t respect its rights. As a result, high percentages of African Americans live in poverty in the South. And poverty and test performance are directly related as any preliminary scan of our states’ data will show. Northerners are simply the beneficiaries of living patterns and history, not of greater intellect.

By DT

October 25, 2005 10:40 AM | Link to this

Left behind. Who do you think is ot blame with your childs dilema?

By still teaching

October 25, 2005 10:48 AM | Link to this

DT - I would guess that most people would think it is the school’s fault. After all, aren’t we as teachers to blame for all the ills in the world?

By Milo Waldrop

October 25, 2005 10:49 AM | Link to this

Patti, This is an article I found on line at the SFGATE web site. http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/10/25/BAGO9FDD351.DTL

I think it tells the whole story. And yes, It has been said over and over in you BLOGS.

Here it is in print for those who do not want to go to the link.

It is a long read, but worth it.

A YEAR AT MALCOLM X: Second Chance at Success Single mom defies odds, just by getting involved Heather Knight, Chronicle Staff Writer Tuesday, October 25, 2005

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On paper, Tammy Matthews’ children should be failing. Matthews, 30, grew up in the projects of San Francisco’s rough Hunters Point neighborhood, where her mom and her mom’s mom grew up, too. She did horribly in school, got pregnant when she was 17, and barely eked out her high school diploma. She later had a second child, by another man who’s now in prison, and the three live on welfare and disability checks. Those are the grim facts, but Matthews — and perhaps more importantly, her children — refuse to be kept down by them. Matthews’ first child, Chegraftanay (a combination of three relatives’ names) Mims, is earning a 4.0 in middle school and once told her principal, “My mother has a plan for me — I’m going to be a genius, so I have to work hard.” Matthews’ second child, Franklin Irvin Jr., is in third grade at Malcolm X Academy, an elementary school on the hill in Hunters Point. An avid reader, he especially likes geography books, checking out volumes on the 50 states from his school library one by one. He and his sister have never traveled farther than Sacramento, but Franklin likes reading about faraway places. “I want to learn what they’re special for,” he explained. So how has Matthews done it? Mainly, she’s just there. Making sure her kids get to school on time every morning. In her kids’ classrooms, getting to know their teachers. At the door when they come home, asking whether they have homework and insisting they get to it right away. At their schools’ family events, learning what she needs to do to ensure her children’s success. “My kids’ education is the most important thing to me,” she said. “I’m always there to make sure things are done right — whatever they’re a part of, I’m a part of.” The family, in fact, is the perfect example of what studies say: that while parents’ income and education level do influence their children’s academic success, parental involvement matters even more. According to research compiled by the San Diego County Office of Education, “the most accurate predictor of a student’s achievement in school is not income or social status, but the extent to which the student’s family is able to create a home environment that encourages learning.” Deena Zacharin, director of the San Francisco Unified School District’s parent relations office, agrees. “Imparting high expectations for your child doesn’t take a high socioeconomic status or a lot of education,” she said. “It’s just telling your child you know they can succeed.”

At Malcolm X Academy — which saw an improvement in test scores this fall after nearly being shut last spring, at least in part due to poor academic performance — getting parents involved in their children’s education isn’t always easy, especially with parents who once struggled academically themselves and now endure crushing poverty. According to state statistics, 35 percent of Malcolm X parents didn’t finish high school. Forty-five percent earned their high school diploma but went no further. Seventeen percent had some college, 2 percent are college graduates, and just 1 percent attended graduate school. Seventy-seven percent of students at the school are poor enough to qualify for free or reduced-price lunch. Christy Yom, a second-grade teacher at Malcolm X, said it often becomes clear why a child is failing once she talks to the parents. Sometimes the children aren’t being served breakfast, aren’t sleeping well because of turmoil in the home, aren’t read to and aren’t instructed to do their homework, she said. “That’s what’s sad — kids don’t choose who their parents are going to be,” Yom said. “It breaks my heart when I see a lot of potential, yet there’s something in the home that’s unstable.” Yet Yom sees the happy flipside to this equation too, like when she taught Franklin, 8, last year, and Chegraftanay, 12, a few years ago. She estimates parental involvement lifts children at least 75 percent of the way to academic success. “Teachers play a huge role, but it starts from home. It’s the root of their success,” she said. “If the kid stands out and I get to talk to the parents, I realize why. Very rarely are kids driven on their own and just born like that.”

Yom said Chegraftanay always finished her assignments early and asked for more work. Yom taught her the Korean alphabet and some words in the language. “It made me want to push her and really allow her to soar because she wanted to fly,” Yom said. She and other teachers at the school said Matthews stands out for her devotion to her children and her involvement in their education. When she didn’t understand Chegraftanay’s math homework in fifth grade, she asked her daughter’s teacher, James Lowe, for tutoring in it herself. It’s a far different attitude than when Matthews was a girl. She started running away from home when she was 12, sometimes for a week; she said it was just an act of rebellion. She’d ride Muni buses all night long when she didn’t have somewhere to stay. She cut class, rarely did her homework, and said her best grade-point average ever was a 2.0. Matthews can’t really pinpoint how she made the shift from not caring about school as a student to caring desperately about it as a mother. “I don’t have any secrets as far as, ‘Well, I do this instead of this,’ ” she said. “I just tell them how important education is. I’d hate for them to wind up like their mom — my daughter pregnant as a teenager or my son on the streets becoming a statistic.” But delve deeper, and it’s clear Matthews is doing much more. She read to them when they were little, and the children’s rooms are dotted with library books. Franklin said he remembers completing Dr. Seuss’ “Hop on Pop” all on his own when he was in first grade. “That was the first book I ever read,” he said. Asked how he felt after finishing it, he said, “Fine. Well, great a little.” The first rule of the household is that homework must be done first thing, before TV or video games. “It’s the first question that comes out of her mouth when we walk in the door,” said Chegraftanay. “Do you have homework?” Matthews used to work as a saleswoman at Old Navy but is now on disability because of lymphedema in her right leg, a condition that causes painful swelling but is not life-threatening. She tried taking classes at City College recently, but was overwhelmed and stopped going. (“I sometimes wish I could go back in time and complete college like I should have done right out of high school,” she said, adding she might give it another try.) Despite their difficult circumstances, Matthews tries to instill pride in her children, telling them what her grandmother told her: “It’s not where you live, it’s how you live.” “My kids know we live in the projects, but when they walk inside of our home, it’s a totally different feeling — they’re very comfortable,” she said. On a recent morning, Chegraftanay and Franklin sat in the living room of their pleasant, three-bedroom home in the housing projects of the Western Addition, eating Frosted Flakes and watching “The Next Karate Kid,” starring a young Hilary Swank. Soon, Chegraftanay would board a bus to Aim High Academy in the Haight and Matthews would drive Franklin to Malcolm X. (Though the family moved out of Hunters Point a couple of years ago, Matthews loves Franklin’s elementary school and didn’t want to transfer him.) But first, as with most sisters and brothers, there was some good-natured ribbing. Reminded of telling her elementary school principal she was going to be a genius and asked whether she was one yet, Chegraftanay replied, “I am — yes.” “No,” shot back Franklin. “You don’t know college stuff or high school stuff.” “I will,” Chegraftanay said. She wants to go to Stanford or Harvard. Why? “I’ve heard a lot of good things.” Matthews says her daughter is going to college “without a doubt.” Chegraftanay said she wants to be a hip-hop singer, a writer and an entrepreneur. Yom, her former teacher, envisions her as a lawyer, a teacher or a doctor. Matthews has even loftier goals for her. “If she keeps it up, she’ll have the option to be anything she wants to be,” she said, sounding like any proud mom. “We’re bucking for president of the United States.” But first, it was time for seventh grade, and after a kiss for her mom, Chegraftanay was off.

By high school teacher

October 25, 2005 10:50 AM | Link to this

Kym,

Teachers agree with you. The government does not, unfortunately, and has cut funding for vocational education. They have also attempted to create cookie-cutter education with the new Georgia Performance Standards, which are still a mile wide and an inch deep. The difference between GPS and QCC’s is that teachers now have three times the amount of paperwork involved in lesson planning.

The SAT is NOT a curriculum based test (how many people use the word “megolomania” and “grandiloquent” in everyday conversation or on the job? These types of words comprise the verbal section of the SAT). In fact, the recent changes to the SAT were completed to make the test more like the ACT, which is more curriculum based. Do not judge education in the state of Georgia on SAT scores. I concede to the fact that we have much room for improvement, but teacher and curriculum reform can’t come before parent and student responsibility reform. That’s where we should start.

By leftbehind

October 25, 2005 10:53 AM | Link to this

DT, I am not sure who is to blame. I just know that everyday when my child gets home I must teach him what he didn’t get at school. The top class in his school has around twenty-something students. I realize that teachers cannot tailor instruction for each child, but their is such a huge gap in ability levels within one class. Children at the top are having to hang out and wait on everyone else to catch up. Smaller class size would help, but there are not enough teachers in the world. We will always be behind at the rate we are going.

By dekalbmom

October 25, 2005 10:53 AM | Link to this

Reading so many of you comments gives me an awareness of the levels of energy, and wisdom each of us have as individuals. Can we bottle it and make a difference in our children’s life instead of casting so many stones? I have children in elementary, middle school, and high school. They are bored. They are a different breed than what I remember. What we need to do is implement different training/educational programs geared to meet the needs of our children today. We have to learn how to think, train, and educate outside of the box. Most of our kids today do not come prepared to learn the way we want them to. Those who are gifted to train, guide, teach, and instruct must be prepared and equipped to work with various learning patterns. When is hte last time that we really listened to what our kids want? We are doing too much force feeding to a generation that came with their own agenda. What worked well 20 years ago will not work now and until we as a whole can understand this we will continue to be faced with issues.

I tried to get into the school system to teach business to those individuals who have an entrepreneurial interest. Since I lack an education degree, I couldl not get my foot in the door. It doesn’t matter that I have a MBA, a MPA, and working towards a doctorate degree. Personally, this sounds a little twisted but again, our children weren’t born in the box that we try to keep them in so we must learn how to think out of the box and adjust to them according to the way that best matches their creative learning styles so that they can achieve their highest potential.

By dekalbmom

October 25, 2005 10:58 AM | Link to this

Excuse the typo’s. I am trying to multi-task and it’s not working well this morning.

By RF

October 25, 2005 11:20 AM | Link to this

leftbehind—thanks for doing what we, as teachers, wish all parents would do. You are working with your child and facing the challenges of school with careful attention. Never be afraid to go in and ask for reasons why things happen. Teachers do better when we know parents are paying attention. We typically have to teach to the middle and hope the lower ones can catch up before we bore the upper kids to death. And people say we don’t need to group kids by ability levels! If more parents were involved, we wouldn’t be as far behind as we are in this state.

By South

October 25, 2005 11:36 AM | Link to this

Rich must not be two smart, ain’t nutin wrong wit us southern states, why don’t he just go on back up north if our intelignence ain’t good enough for him. Come on Rich, if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. By the way your comment on the red state shows your ignorance.(Here is my reasoning, I’m not going to say something without backing it up like most “progressives” do.)Liberals have hijacked the education system and look at the results we have. Just look to the NEA for examples. The socialized agenda of the NEA and liberals in this country is to blame for the problems we are facing in education. Look at who is teaching in colleges and universities. They proudly proclaim to be liberals. We don’t use red ink anymore because the student’s feeling might get hurt. We seize school supplies on the first day of class and redistribute them so that no one is left out. What does that say to the student? I can be a slacker and everyone else will pull my weight. What next? No more high school sporting events because there will be a losing team? Who cares what state is on the bottom of a sinking ship?

By RF

October 25, 2005 11:39 AM | Link to this

dekalbmom- nothing personal here, but as a teacher I need to respond to your comments. Teachers are trained in most systems to deal with different learning styles, and believe me we know that kids are bored. The problem is, what most of them want is to be entertained and have fun. Sometimes life isn’t fun and entertaining, and we have to prepare them to do more than watch TV. Many kids now want school to be like TV—all entertainment and no work. We can’t do that and prepare them for life in a world where they are going to have to work hard and be competitive to make it. We’re trying to find the combination to make schools better, but kids in general really don’t try very hard or want to try, and it’s really holding back the successful, capable kids who do want to learn. You would not believe how many kids today only care about “getting by”. I try every day to inspire my kids and keep them interested, but the minute we start to read or write a paragraph, down go the heads and the whining starts. And that’s in high school!! Believe me, we see the frustration and feel it too!

By Matt

October 25, 2005 12:14 PM | Link to this

Red state? Ignorance and intolerance? Liberals always want to blame conservatives. The blame at home. Every home. Why don’t WE raise our kids and leave the schools for education. They have become cesspools for ideology and a new forum for the left to intrude into our lives. Teachers CAN’T teach and children WON’T learn until we allow these things to happen unimpeded by special interests and judicial/congressional interference.

By FutureTeacher

October 25, 2005 12:30 PM | Link to this

South and Rich must be working together to end all of our stereotypes about either side of the political spectrum. You would think that liberal would be making all of the sketchy, over-reaching conspiracy theories, and the conservative making the ignorant, rude, “my half of the country is better than yours” comments, but instead it’s the other way around.

Seriously though, if you look at a list of states ranked in order of average SAT scores, then color coded to show who they voted for in the 2004 election, you will find that, with one or two VERY small exceptions, all of the blue states are at the top, and all of the red states are at the bottom.

You will find that college professors and GOOD secondary school teachers tend to be liberal because (a) they’re educated, and, more importantly, (b) they care more about helping other people and working for the betterment of society than they care about their own paychecks (this goes more for secondary school teachers than college professors, for obvious reasons).

By FutureTeacher

October 25, 2005 12:31 PM | Link to this

South and Rich must be working together to end all of our stereotypes about either side of the political spectrum. You would think that liberal would be making all of the sketchy, over-reaching conspiracy theories, and the conservative would be making the ignorant, rude, “my half of the country is better than yours” comments, but instead it’s the other way around.

Seriously though, if you look at a list of states ranked in order of average SAT scores, then color coded to show who they voted for in the 2004 election, you will find that, with one or two VERY small exceptions, all of the blue states are at the top, and all of the red states are at the bottom.

You will find that college professors and GOOD secondary school teachers tend to be liberal because (a) they’re well-educated, and, more importantly, (b) they care more about helping other people and working for the betterment of society than they care about their own paychecks (this goes more for secondary school teachers than college professors, for obvious reasons).

By EC

October 25, 2005 12:48 PM | Link to this

As I read all the post, it seems as though when our children fail, we want to blame someone. Whether it’s the administrators, teachers, or, the superintendent. For years, my children have had non-supportive teachers. Either I can sit and sulk, or I can help prepare my children for their educational success. That’s what I do. By the time they enter into high school, pointing the finger at who didn’t prepare who or what is too late. It begins in the womb, while they are young. If you wait for the system to make successfull individuals out of your children, you may be waiting in vain.

By Dan

October 25, 2005 12:57 PM | Link to this

Future teacher clearly doesn’t teach statistics. A large majority of liberal voters are actually uneducated, note that why those blue states due lead in education they also lead in the most dropouts, you are just misinformed as to who is voting blue and who is voting red, those the saying the politician who robs peter to pay paul can always count on pauls vote is a good indication of that since we no the bottom half of income earners pay virtually no tax. Secondly trends indicate solidily that the more education you have the more conservative you vote. But check the cnn election poll results yourself http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/states/US/P/00/epolls.0.html the exception is, for those in academia, where reality and theory collide with no meaninful consequences. University politics are vicious precisely because the stakes are so small. Henry Kissinger (1923 - ) or the other adage those who can do, those who can’t teach. While I am sure there are some who teach for the betterment of society there are as many or more who do it for the hours and time off. BTW this I hear from my teacher friends and family who are fed up not wiht administrators but with their peers for just that reason.

By EC

October 25, 2005 01:02 PM | Link to this

Also, one of my children attend Lindley Middle school in Cobb County. He’s an eight grader. I’ve had to go out and seek other resources because his social studies teacher doesn’t teach out of the school issued books because they are over 10 years old. However, my son has a 92 average in her class. You can over come…..

By FutureTeacher

October 25, 2005 01:31 PM | Link to this

You’re right, I don’t teach anything yet. You’re also right in that I’m not going to teach statistics. Finally, you’re right in that the stat about SAT scores correlated with the states’ party lines is pretty much worthless; I just thought it was a funny anomaly to share.

You also might be right about the more educated voters being more conservative, but I have no way of knowing, because the link you posted didn’t show anything about the voters’ education (not to mention the fact that your post’s erratic spelling and grammar made it very difficult to decipher what you were trying to say). However, assuming your statistic is correct, you have committed the same statistical fallacy that I commited by implying that red states are smarter than blue states: correlation does not equal causation - just because a high level of education is a good indicator of how conservative someone will vote doesn’t mean that being well educated CAUSES someone to vote conservatively. More accurately, those who are well-educated tend to be wealthier, and the wealthy tend to vote conservative because conservative economic policies are more beneficial to them than liberal economic policies are.

And therein lies one of the main ideological difference between liberals and conservatives (especially when you consider cases when both are equally wealthy). Wealthy conservatives have the arrogant idea that the reason they are wealthier than the poor people is because they worked longer, harder, and better to earn it. Liberals, on the other hand take into account all of the other factors, and therefore believe that everyone does the best they can for him or herself given the conditions into which they were born. I just can’t understand those people who are so self-righteous that they believe that the high school dropouts serving french (err, pardon me, FREEDOM) fries for minimum wage wouldn’t have worked JUST as hard as the wealthy people did if they were given the same advantages.

By RF

October 25, 2005 01:40 PM | Link to this

Future—just keep in mind that ALL kids are given the same opportunity to succeed in this country. I am a politically moderate veteran teacher, and every day I see kids who come from bad backgrounds working hard to have a good life. As a teacher, you will have to try to inspire all your kids, but some are always going to be beyond your reach, no matter how hard you try. You don’t give up, but you have to realize that the final decision to succeed or fail is on the individual kid, and we can’t keep making excuses for the dropouts because they don’t have the same “advantages”. They can do it too. We give them all the same opportunity, and more to those who need it, to learn, grow, and become someone important.

By Amazed (Independent Woman)

October 25, 2005 01:46 PM | Link to this

The more educated you are, the more conservative you vote, can not be true; because I have read many of your prior statements. You don’t have to be liberal or conservative to know right from wrong. You don’t have to be liberal or conservative to have a heart.

You don’t have to know how to read, write or do math - to know what is best for you. However, education is key to accessing the mid and top levels of society.

I love the saying, I wonder what Jesus would do? Whatever it is, I’m sure it will not be as a liberal or conservative.

Think about it, the next time you categorize a group of people based upon the fact that their politics are different from yours.

By Dan

October 25, 2005 02:44 PM | Link to this

Future Teach The link has many polls one happens to correlate no hs, hs, college and post grad to Kerry or Bush votes As I said draw your own conclusion as to the meaning but regardless of causation your comment that liberals are more educated is patently false. Being more educated does not cause one to vote for either party it gives one the opportunity to assess complex issues and determine the most logical and practical alternatives. It isn’t arrogance that causes one to think someone serving fries didn’t work as hard as the person who owns the store, it is experience and observation. The large majority of “rich” people don’t inherit their money they earn it by finishing HS and outperforming their peers at the fry station, then managing the store and so on. It isn’t because of “advantages”. I don’t care who you are, where you come from, or what level of education you are, if you show up for work on time and perform your job you won’t be at the fry station for long.

as churchhill said “if you are young and conservative you have no heart if you are old and liberal you have no sense.” I can only hope if you do become a teacher you gain that experience quickly.

Amazed I was responding to someone elses categorization. You need to learn the difference. Conservatives have as much heart as anyone. They simply choose to teach people to fish rather than give them a fish. Conservatives create jobs through capitalism, without which all the education and charity in the world would be useless. It is simply a matter of logic and reason.

By EC

October 25, 2005 02:54 PM | Link to this

I haven’t read everything you’ve written…..but cheers to you on your last comment. Very well written.

By Future Business Owner

October 25, 2005 03:05 PM | Link to this

Future Teacher, you are really scaring me and I am thankful I do not have any kids in public schools (if that is where you will be teaching). The 6.25 an hour french fry cookers DO work just as hard as anyone, they just don’t work SMART. I have worked for 25 years at $32,000 a year, which is nothing compared to todays standards. I have decided to go into business for myself and working all these years has given me the startup money and the good credit to do so. But, you would rather sit there, like most liberals, and play the blame game by saying things like;

“I just can’t understand those people who are so self-righteous that they believe that the high school dropouts serving french (err, pardon me, FREEDOM) fries for minimum wage wouldn’t have worked JUST as hard as the wealthy people did if they were given the same advantages.”

To get a HS diploma doesn’t cost much and everyone is entitled to get one, so dropouts don’t have to drop out. And people with your views should be the ones to take care of them. No, wait a minute, thats the govenments job, isn’t it?

If people can’t get ahead in this country, they can’t do it anywhere else. Government dependancy should be a course in public schools!!!

By EC

October 25, 2005 03:07 PM | Link to this

Cheers to you too Independent Woman!!!

By leftbehind

October 25, 2005 03:12 PM | Link to this

Just a thought. I am not blaming anyone just raising a question. I wrote earlier about my son and the issues my family is dealing with because he is in the “top” class with children that are of differing ability levels. Special education students all have Individual Education Plans. Teachers must make sure they carry out these plans and make accomadations for these children. Is it discrimination to not have plans for the regular education students? My son is very able, but he is being held back in school because other children are not ready to move ahead. Why should very able students suffer?

By RF

October 25, 2005 03:28 PM | Link to this

left behind—some schools are already requiring individual education plans for all students, and I think they will be a trend all over in the coming years. It’s not a bad idea, but as long as we continue to force kids like yours to stay in classes with kids who don’t care or aren’t able because of the environment they live in, even an individual plan won’t keep your child from being held back. I don’t think there is a simple, politically correct way to get around that unless your child can eventually take honors classes. Students who are very capable but don’t qualify for exceptional level classes are just plain and simply forced to slow down and wait for their slower peers. You’re doing the best thing by supplementing his teaching at home. I do it too with my nine year old. Takes time, but it’s worth it.

By leftbehind

October 25, 2005 03:44 PM | Link to this

If I am going to teach him when he gets home everyday, why not homeschool? Just a thought I’m pondering.

By SWC

October 25, 2005 03:55 PM | Link to this

Leftbehind - I understand your point about help going to lower echelon at expense of achievers, but don’t forget - your child is only in Kindergarten! I think you may want to relax a little and let him be a kid a bit longer. It is not necessary to be able to read in Kindergarten. Its more important that they have a chance to be creative: To write, to think, to draw, perchance to dream! (To paraphrase Shakespeare).

North versus South education differences? My personal opinion (as a transplanted Northerner) is that The South has too much of a “spoil the rod spare the child” view of education, and does not emphasize the Liberal arts enough - its so focused on the 3Rs AND feels so insecure about its “bad reputation” that it drills and kills but does not inspire.

Further, I had never heard of schools without windows until I moved here. What was the architect thinking? What was the bureacrat who approved the design thinking? Make school like a prison, don’t distract them with things like windows, sunshine, fresh air and exercise, and we’ll FORCE these kids to get an education?

By FutureTeacher

October 25, 2005 03:55 PM | Link to this

Well Future Business Owner, all I can say is that I, too, am thankful that you don’t have any kids in public school. If you have school-aged kids, then it’s probably better for both of us that you homeschool them or send them to private school, that way we won’t have to have these arguments in person at PTA meetings.

And Dan, instead of playing the blame game, I should have just said that MY experience (and the experience of many other liberals) has taught different lessons that yours has, for the experience of attending an inner-city public school and a church in urban Atlanta has taught me the exact opposite of what your experiences have taught: that many people “living off the system” really DO work hard, and by no means do they LIKE being in the position that they’re in, and are working hard to change it. Do you know how hard it is for a homeless person to get a real job when they don’t have an address to put on a job application?

But you’re right in some cases it can be too easy to just “give up” and let the government take care of you, which is why capitalism is so much more efficient than socialism, and that’s why somebody has to teach public school students that if you do work hard, it really can pay off. What I find disturbing is the closed minded assumption that just because someone is at the bottom of the socio-economic ladder means that they just didn’t work hard enough. You say that conservatives would rather teach a man to fish than give him a fish, but what many conservatives take for granted is the fact that many people don’t even have a net.

By RF

October 25, 2005 03:58 PM | Link to this

left behind—I have a 4th and 2nd grader. Your role as a teacher doesn’t stop. You will want to and need to supplement your child’s school education for the rest of his life. It’s our job as parents and not necessarily a sign that the school is bad. It makes our kids smarter and more successful in the long run. As the saying goes “it takes a village to raise a child” and you’re the chief of the village mom! The teachers are just a part of YOUR village.

By Kym

October 25, 2005 04:22 PM | Link to this

All of the comments today go back to one central theme. Personal Responsiblity! Parents should teach, Kids should learn it, and Teachers should enforce it. Period. If Parents are not teaching it, then Kids will not learn it, and Teachers are doing a fruitless job trying to enforce it. All around a sad state of affairs.

By SWC

October 25, 2005 04:26 PM | Link to this

FutureTeacher - Conservatives are just tired of paying for liberals failed ideas. We have so many “nets” that we don’t know what to do with them! And its a net-net loss to the hardworking taxpayer who did not win life’s lottery, as much as liberals like to claim.

I find it interesting that the LIBERAL AJC editorial board is opposed to making exceptions for students who can’t get a diploma because they can’t pass the trivial pursuit science test, but we CONSERVATIVES get blamed for being mean-spirited.

By FutureTeacher

October 25, 2005 04:59 PM | Link to this

Conservatives are just tired of paying for liberals failed ideas

Yes, as taxpayers we spend so much money on liberal welfare programs and Robin Hood laws, and yet there is still poverty. You can’t eliminate poverty. It’s impossible. Jesus told us that long ago: “The poor you will always have with you.” - Mark 14:7.

But the fact is that verse is one of the most oft-quoted and at the same time misunderstood verses in the Bible. Jesus was talking to his disciples, with the assumption that his disciples would always be living among the poor and downtrodden, as Jesus did and instructs us to do. Therefore, I believe in these programs that use “hard-earned” tax money to benefit the needy not because they are beneficial to the economy, not because they teach people how to work hard, but because of my Christian moral values. I know this is WAY off topic, but conservative Christians are so quick to point out verses about topics like homosexuality in order to “legislate morality,” and they seemingly ignore the fact that for every 1 bible verse that says homosexuality is wrong, there are LITERALLY HUNDREDS of verses that have to do with poverty and giving freely and unashamedly. I do believe in legislating morality — that being said, I also believe that equality, discrimination, war, and poverty are all MORAL issues. Consequently, it baffles me that Christians in office can find all sorts of justifications to outlaw gay marriage, crack down on abortion, and go to war without principle, but won’t say a WORD about the moral and biblical implications of permanent tax cuts for the wealthy.

By Manika Singh

October 26, 2005 09:37 AM | Link to this

I am not a teacher but teaching runs in the family. I agree 100% with RF. If the teachers, students and parents work together WE CAN IMPROVE AND MAKE IT INTERESTING.

By leftbehind

October 26, 2005 10:00 AM | Link to this

RF, Future Teacher, and Manika,

The problem is that parents are not held accountable. We can make school systems, administrators, and teachers adhere to certain standards, but we have no way of holding parents accountable for their responsibility to their children. It is always the school or teachers fought if students don’t perform well. What if “little Johnny” comes from a home where no one helped him with homework or makes sure it is done? What if the people in his home keep him up all hours at night partying, etc? What if “little Johnny’s mind is full of curse words and violence from movies he has seen at home? What is a school or teacher to do with this child? How can he be expected to perform well in school? There is no government program or law to help him. All the money in the world will not fix what is wrong with his situation. Love and attention from a parent will fix it, but how do can a school or teacher provide it? It is not a school or teacher’s responsibility. Our schools are not the problem. Parents are the problem.

By SWC

October 26, 2005 11:16 AM | Link to this

Future teacher: “it baffles me that Christians in office can find all sorts of justifications to outlaw gay marriage, crack down on abortion, and go to war without principle, but won’t say a WORD about the moral and biblical implications of permanent tax cuts for the wealthy”.

In case you hadn’t heard, we have these things called “charities” where people can voluntarily contribute to those causes dearest to their hearts. And “red states” are the most generous of all.

What exactly is so Christ-like about the Federal Government anyway (other than principles put forth in our Declaration of Independence and the Bill of Rights)?

By kay

October 26, 2005 11:53 AM | Link to this

NEWS FLASH: Kathy Cox, State School Superintendent is a Republican and has NOT announced any intention of running for Governor of GA. CATHY COX, Secretary of State is a Democrat and has announced her intent to run for Governor of GA. Two different spellings, two different parties, two different people!!!!!!!

By Dan

October 26, 2005 01:08 PM | Link to this

Future teacher you seem to assume I don’t have a similar experience. Fact is I do and I have seen both sides. You say some don’t have a net, I say 99% do, they may not know how to use it but they have it. Regarding your tax reference instead of reading from the democratic talking points for the economically challenged just consider these facts and then decide if the rich are getting a break For the record, since my table companion doesn’t know or doesn’t care, the top 1 percent — the taxpayers with an adjusted gross income (AGI) over $295,495 — paid, for 2003, 34.27 percent of federal income tax revenues. The top 10 percent (with an AGI over $94,891) paid 65.84 percent, the top half (AGI over $29,019) paid 96.54 percent. The bottom half? They paid 3.46 percent. Now if you care to argue that the top 1% should pay 37.73% and the bottom half 0% fine, at least you will have started with facts rather than rhetoric. I would disagree because it is simple human nature to appreciate the value of something earned more than something given.
But to holler about immoral tax cuts for the rich, when all brackets recieved the same cuts and the higher brackets now pay more of the load than they did previously, just underscores your ignorance of economics and how baseless your argument is.

By Tom

October 26, 2005 01:36 PM | Link to this

Putting the idea that the SAT is monopolistic and bias lets just evaluate that the point that not last is nothing to be proud of it is still pathetic. The only people being cheated by the schools are the children who are then taught that they have been victimized. It is ridiculous, and saying that the SAT is biased is merely another way that has been found to displace blame, maybe instead of trying so hard to convince ourselves that we are being wronged by the evil collegeboard we should recognize that it is the national standard and study for it, i did.

By Tom

October 26, 2005 02:01 PM | Link to this

A GPA cannot be a standard, especially when regards to GA HS because of the different levels of difficulty…if some one transfers from out of state they will have a lower GPA because the equivalent classes in other states are packed with in many cases atleast double the difficulty and workload, GPA is an extremely weak base due to its lack of ability to be nationally standardized.

By Dan

October 26, 2005 02:02 PM | Link to this

Tom you are right Nothing is perfect so those who use victimization as an excuse will always have somewhere to point the finger, except the mirror of course.