Get Schooled

By oldteacher

October 13, 2005 08:22 AM | Link to this

If they are not passing the science and social studies parts of the test but passing the English and writing parts, then it sounds like it is the content of their high school education that is at fault.

This is a basic test as it is and personally, I don’t think the standards should be lowered.

By Dan

October 13, 2005 08:31 AM | Link to this

A diploma is supposed to inidicate a mimimum level of achievment regarding knowledge and skills acquired. Regardless of why a person could not attain that level does not alter the fact. Severe difficulties with testing may be an exception, and I say severe because the standard is already closer to 9th grade than 12th. Lowering the standard for one diminishes the meaning of the diploma for all. That is simply a mathematical fact

By Lee

October 13, 2005 08:36 AM | Link to this

On one hand, I say that we pay teachers to be professionals and these same teachers have had these students for twelve years and have deemed them to have passed their required courses of study. Why then do we impose a “do or die” test on these students in order to graduate?

On the other hand, the reason this test was imposed (as well as all the other testing that is being conducted) is that a small percentage of teachers and a small percentage of schools did in fact pass students along who could not perform.

There you go. “We have met the enemy and he is us.”

By Karen Armsby

October 13, 2005 08:39 AM | Link to this

I agree with oldteacher. It appears to me that the results of the statewide graduation test reveal the differences in the quality of instruction among high schools. How can students get “good” grades in a subject and then fail the graduation test in that subject? Don’t lower the standards of the graduation test! Raise the quality of instruction.

By Leia

October 13, 2005 08:48 AM | Link to this

I agree with all of you about not watering down instruction so that the students can pass the graduation exam. My issue is that I teach high school, and by the time I get these students, they’ve already been pushed through at least 8 years of schooling. Some of them should have been retained in elementary or middle school. But, the high school teachers become the “bad guys” when we record deficiencies and start flunking the kids.

By oldteacher

October 13, 2005 08:59 AM | Link to this

Lisa, Those of us that teach middle school sometimes feel the same way about the lower grade teachers. If I have heard, “My child made all A’s in the last school” once, I have heard it a hundred times. BTW, check their records and you will see that sometimes the parents are wrong.

By oldteacher

October 13, 2005 09:00 AM | Link to this

Sorry Leia, I put the wrong name.

By yada yada yada

October 13, 2005 09:20 AM | Link to this

Can you say SST and 504 modifications? Teachers are blamed if a student fails because they did not modify the lessons so that each student can make a passing grade. This is just educational jargon for “water it down”. The rubber hits the road when the students take the CRCT or Grad test. That is why so many teachers are upset that they must make things easier for some students and then the teachers get the blame when crct, eoct and Grad test scores are not good enough.

By high school teacher

October 13, 2005 09:24 AM | Link to this

If you look at sample questions from the social studies and science graduation tests (go to dept of Education website), you will see that these tests are Trivial Pursuit tests. They are very specific questions that are mainly recall. They are not skills based, like the writing, English, and math tests. Don’t be so hard on ss and science teachers; they do a great job of covering a huge curriculum. I don’t have a problem with students being required to pass a test as long as it is based on curriculum skills, not based on questions that will be on Jeopardy. BTW, students don’t necessarily have to pass an End-of-Course-Test to graduate. They must have credit for the courses themselves; the EOCT is 15% of their grade for that course.

By oldteacher

October 13, 2005 09:27 AM | Link to this

I was not blaming the science or SS teachers. I was blaming the curriculum that they are required to teach.

By Concerned Teacher

October 13, 2005 09:27 AM | Link to this

I have taught public education in Metro-ATL for 7 years. I went to private school in another city in the state. I believe that there is such a disparity because of the issues associated with socio-economics such as: single parent, young mother, welfare dependency, drug abuse in the family, gangs, and numerous others. It is amazing how each can affect a students learning potential. In some schools, it is cool to be “dumb.” I have seen good students ridiculed because they make good grades. I have seen good students change in a year or two to become discpline problems in their classes. I have called parents, written letters, and had conferences, but there is usually little change in the student. Parents will say, “I’ll get them from my end,” but I never see any results. Teachers need help and cooperation with parents, not a confrontation. Most of us are in education to make a difference and to help kids. We want positive outcomes for all students. I have stayed after school and come in early to help students prepare for the GHSGT, but there is only so much that can be done. It is also difficult to prepare a student for a test if they have missed over 15 days of one semester. We can’t teach and they can’t learn if they aren’t in class. Yes, things need to change for schools that are not meeting their goals, but all parties need to work TOGETHER to make a change. Stop the finger-pointing and find a solution. One must be patient though. It may take 3-5 years for a program to become effective!

By Karen Armsby

October 13, 2005 09:28 AM | Link to this

I am not a teacher, but I know that in order to be a good learner you must be a good reader. I think that poorly performing schools and students need to go back to teaching and learning the the basics. Reading skills, writing skills, and math skills should all be mastered before the students are passed, instead on ‘passed on.’

By endure

October 13, 2005 09:30 AM | Link to this

Why does Georgia Education require such a test, when nationally we are near the last fore education? Georgia is one of few states that require a graduation test. Children are being test from womb to high school. Life is a test. How many of us (parents, educator or professional of the world) are successful in LIFE? And success to one person is not the same to other. “One man’s potion is another man’s poison”

I believe in testing to achieve a level of competence. But, Georgia graduation test is an insult to the nation at a whole.

Most parents (old school or generation X) did not have to take a graduation test for a diploma.

When I read or hear a educator speak so highly of this graduation test, I wonder did they have to take such a test to graduate from high school. (This is not the praxis test)

Can some brilliant parent, educator or professionalof the world, let me know how this test has helped Georgia students excell at the world at large.

By Leia

October 13, 2005 09:31 AM | Link to this

To oldteacher - I absolutely believe you. I have elementary school teacher friends who tell me that the parents complain if they suggest summer school or retention, and their administrators choose to socially promote the students when it does them such a disservice in the end.

By TruthHurts

October 13, 2005 09:54 AM | Link to this

Oh, yes: The old high school graduation test!

The painful truth is that the Georgia High School Graduation Test is, to say the least, not the most rigorous test ever developed. In fact, it is not rigorous at all. Some metro Atlanta high schools have a 90%+ pass rate by first-time test takers as juniors.

Yet, for some general education students, it remains a great challenge.

The solution? One possibility is end-of-course testing. The theory is that in some subjects, such as science, there is up to a two year time lag between the class and the GHSGT covering that subject matter. So, test right after the subject matter is taught.

But this brings us back to the painful truth: the GHSGT is not a rigorous test and Georgia should have higher pass rates. Perhaps that suggests that our curriculum may not be rigorous enough (with all due respect to the new Georgia Performance Standards)…

By Karen Armsby

October 13, 2005 10:00 AM | Link to this

What if teachers and principals got some backbone, and defied the administrative edicts to dumb down the curriculum just so failing students could ‘pass’?

What if teachers and principals united together to take the lagging and failing students and put them in reading, writing and math skill bootcamps and bring their skills up to grade level?

What if teachers and principals chose to educate first, and to stand up to the whining students and parents and your administrative handlers?

What if you realize that it is all in your hands as teachers to turn this problem around?

What if you teachers and principals took control of your professional careers to get the job done?

Why not do it?

By Amazed (Independent Woman)

October 13, 2005 10:09 AM | Link to this

The standards for this test should remain the same. We have obviously failed the students at some level. But once the test has been taken and the students know what will be covered on the test, it should be up to them to find a book about the subject and start preparing to retake the test. I’m sure that many school systems have special classes setup to help the students with preparing to retake this exam, if they do not, the school system needs to put special classes in place.

I believe that any student can memorize history, so preparing to pass that section of the test is a given.

However, science is a larger challenge and may required more time than a special class would allow. But a class on science terminology, definitions and formulas used would give the students at least a 70% chance of passing the science section.

We really need to spend more time educating children at the elementary and middle school level. We will continue to see highschool children struggle to pass basic test, if we do NOT find the education “cure” before the kids move into highschool.

By The Coach

October 13, 2005 10:16 AM | Link to this

I don’t know about the ss test, but the science test is a badly written test. There have been several times in the past few years in which questions did not have a correct answer. Also, to restate ‘high school teacher’, it is a recall test, not a test of problem solving skills. Hopefully, with the onset of the GPS, this antiquated test will cease to exist and will be replaced with a measure how well a student can perform in a science setting, not how many of the definitions from 3 years of H.S. he/she can remember.

By Heywood

October 13, 2005 10:34 AM | Link to this

Hmmm, let’s think about that for a second. Soften graduation requirements for students who can’t pass……. Where did Georgia line up comparatively with the rest of the US? 36th? Sure, let’s loosen the requirements. Ga teacher’s don’t catch enough (UNDUE)rhetoric about the quality of Ga’s graduates. Let’s dumb-down the curriculum so Ga teachers can really get beaten up by the rest of the nation. Not like anyone had any high hopes for children anyway, right? If it’s too hard, let’s just give them a pass because we know they won’t have any problem obtaining or maintaining gainful employment with a minimal education because Georgia lowered its standards.

Now I hope that no one gets their undies in a twist because they don’t recognize when someone is being facetious. Leave the standard alone! Teachers and children will rise to the occasion!

By Ernest

October 13, 2005 10:35 AM | Link to this

Endure raises several interesting points from comments I’ve heard around the county. IMO, we need to RAISE our standards and expectations rather than lowering them. As many have indicated, the current test is not difficult for those who put forth effort. I MAY consider exceptions strictly on a case by case basis but would not want to see a blanket policy of exceptions.

I believe having these tests will help our state compete for industries in this growing, global economy. In other parts of the country, I’ve heard many negative perceptions of the K-12 education in southern states. True, land is available and business taxes are relatively low, but can we show we have the type of educated workforce many companies are seeking? Can we demonstrate a committment to improving our K-12 education? These are the types of real decisions multinational corporations consider when establishing operations in various states.

By Dan

October 13, 2005 10:37 AM | Link to this

Endure your post is a perfect example of the circular logic that causes this problem in the first place. No past generation did not have to pass a test because they needed to actually learn something to get promoted to the next grade in the first place, there was no such nonsense as social promotion or undue focus on self esteem instead of achievment. The testing helps kids, not directly, but indirectly by ensuring they aren’t ushered into the world illiterate because someone wanted to get them out of the class. Although for some they deserve it

By Cynical Guy

October 13, 2005 10:52 AM | Link to this

Dan, No past generation did not have to pass a test because they needed to actually learn something to get promoted to the next grade in the first place, there was no such nonsense as social promotion or undue focus on self esteem instead of achievment. It’s a good thing you didn’t have to take the writing test. You would have never graduated with a sentence like this!

By wendy Leacock

October 13, 2005 10:55 AM | Link to this

Why are we insisting on “the dumbing down of the American School child”. No where else in the world is there so much leniency. Children must strive to achieve. Stop blaming everyone else!

By wendy Leacock

October 13, 2005 10:56 AM | Link to this

Why are we insisting on “the dumbing down of the American School child? No where else in the world is there so much leniency!!!

By CMS

October 13, 2005 11:06 AM | Link to this

Curriculum and testing, have always been a round about battle. Essentially, reading, writting, and simple mathematics are the absolute basics. The ability to recall facts without understanding its greater implications is where our curriculum/testing problems come into play. Although our curriculum is very wide, it is stretched oh so thin, especially in literature, science, and social sciences. I was taught not to memorize infinite amounts of tiny facts about, say Cell Biology. Instead, we developed a vast knowledge of cell biology by understanding functions and implications within cell biology. My sister, on the other hand, was forced to copy charts, definitions, and other “facts” and the only thing she can remember of cell biology is that mitochonria are the power house of a cell! My sister is very smart, but our current curriculum is teaching these kids how to pass tests.

So if you pass the test, you’re smart. If not, you didn’t pay attention. These tests do not take into account the lapse of time that the subject matter was chosen. And the fact that some kids have severly different learning styles and approaches to studying material is over looked. You do not need to “dumb down” or “water down” anything. The same material should be taught completely to these children, but in differnt manners, and maybe over longer periods of time if necessary. Inclusion is part of our nation’s education now, and those not wanting to do it accurately and with the best of care, shouldn’t be teaching those children.

To put it another way, to teach you must first pass the Praxis I, an rather simple test, but one that many do not pass on their first time. There is no reason why any one should fail this test, and more importantly be able to take it again. It’s easier than graduation tests!

Yet these people are allowed to teach our children, and I must say that this is part of the problem as well.

By Taxpayer

October 13, 2005 11:19 AM | Link to this

A student should demonstrate at least minimum competency in each core subject in order to graduate. If the students can’t pass a social studies test, what kind of citizens of America and the world will they be? I can tell you: they will be the students who think Lincoln signed the Declaration of Independence and won’t know the difference between a senator and a representative when they start voting. That’s scary, but what’s even more frightening is the desire to dumb down these tests to accommodate this lack of knowledge.

By The Coach

October 13, 2005 11:19 AM | Link to this

CMS, I think you are referring to the Praxis II content area tests. While these are not hard tests, they are not easier than the grad test. They are just written in such a manner that you take a Chemistry test, not a chemistry, physics, biology test. You only need to remember one subject(in depth), not trivia learned over 3 years.

By The Coach

October 13, 2005 11:28 AM | Link to this

TO finish my last post. I do agree that it is ridiculous that people who should have had extensive training in a content area have a hard time passing the Praxis’. Kinda Scary;) Must be Dawgie Grads!

By Danielle

October 13, 2005 12:15 PM | Link to this

THere needs to be a cut off somewhere. Changing that cut off to let everyone or anyone pass changes the definition of a graduate. I am a high school special ed. teacher. I see how some kids want to succeed. Some kids don’t. I do everything to get them motivated. Candy questions. Class jobs. Music. Everything. I give directions in ways they understand. Some kids have the idea they will work at the ——- with their dad or their relative their whole life so they don’t need to finish school. Well, I will tell you, it’s hard to keep these kids going when they go home to parents who don’t motivate them. They are good kids and special, but if they can’t pass the tests, they shouldn’t get the reward. IF I hadn’t passed my classes or the Praxis tests, or the hiring processes, I wouldn’t have succeeded either. They need to learn now they have to WORK for what they want.

By Lilburn Parent

October 13, 2005 12:19 PM | Link to this

The students should be allowed to pass if they score closely.

There is a time lag between some of the information in the Social Studies, and Science tests. Meaning that you may have passed Freshman social studies… yet you don’t take the test for a couple of years. That is enough time to forget. You don’t need to know world history to be a contributing member of society.

There is a problem with the timing of the tests, IMO. Fix the broken… then hold kids accountable. If the kid followed the rules (came to class, worked hard, passed the tests and the class), the graduation tests in social studies or science should not stop them from graduating. Not all kids want to go to college. Give them a logical completion (the diploma).

I kind of wonder if I could pass the graduation tests…

Many, many, many years ago I was good student in high school. I completed college, and I am a contributing member of society. How well I did in social studies… does not really play a role in this. When I don’t remember historical facts, I look them up. With science… I feel like I am learning again through my children.

My son feels the tests were easy. He passed with distinction. There may be other kids as smart as my son… that may not fare as well. All this riding on A test.

By Leia

October 13, 2005 12:38 PM | Link to this

The cut rate on the math test is ridiculously low anyway. And don’t get me started on the Algebra I EOCT! There were several kids who “passed” the EOCT who were failing the class dismally, but passed the course because of this test. If the passing grade is 40% - you should be able to “pass with distinction”!

By Cynical Guy

October 13, 2005 12:49 PM | Link to this

I had a student pass all of his grad tests with distinction. The funny part was when he asked me what distinction meant…

By Cynical Guy

October 13, 2005 12:52 PM | Link to this

And on another note, what moron came up with the idea of giving and end of course test one and a half months before the end of the course?

Must be the politicians that know so much about education.

By CMS

October 13, 2005 12:56 PM | Link to this

My point is why teach these kids to know little trivial meaningless facts that do not by any means determine one’s intelligence. It’s like saying that the SAT is a great intelligence indicator. Any one who took a Intro to Psychology should recognize that most federal and state produced tests do not accurately measure a person’s intelligence. If someone has passed a course, then they have passed the course. Testing at the end of that course covering ONLY THE CONTENT TAUGHT in that course should be the end of the line.
It just does not make any since for a student to recall any information outside of the realm of basic math, science principles, reading comprehension and writing just for a test.
Even if these students can memorize their answers for the Grad Test, what makes anyone think that they will remember them afterwards. I’m telling you people it’s awful. I didn’t graduate from high school, but through a GED I did go to college. I found that I was one of the few, very few, that could even write a standard paper in English 1101. There were kids that were taking classes just for the summer that came from GA Tech, UGA, Auburn, among others, that could not read or write effectively. What does that tell you?
I left that junior college with a 4.0 and never graduated from high school. I’m not patting myself on the back, I’m just pointing out that my education differed drastically from the kids that came after me, and its no wonder why there are so many problems now in school based on the lack of focused curriculum.

By CMS

October 13, 2005 01:00 PM | Link to this

So sorry for all of the mistakes! Too many nosey people around me today!

By Laura

October 13, 2005 01:04 PM | Link to this

No Child Left Behind requires all states to test their kids. Some states are putting it off because they know most of their kids won’t pass it.

Georgia is not the only state to test. Texas and North Carolina have been testing for years and years, way before NCLB. In Texas the grades are coming up on the tests because the teachers finally accepted the fact that if they teach to the test and how to take the test, they will be rewarded. Anything else is a waste of time.

Some scores went up A LOT! This includes the “miracle” in Houston which prompted George Bush to appoint Houston’s chief Ron Page to education secretary. Later it was determined there was widespread cheating going on in Houston schools that had big test score increases.

Another district - an entire district - by Dallas was closed down because there was so much teacher-led cheating.

Texas also has low passing standards on the test and they raise them a little bit every year.

By Robert

October 13, 2005 01:09 PM | Link to this

The questions on these standardized tests are not hard at all. And, you don’t even have to get very many correct in order to pass. Keep them as is.

Also, the end-of-course tests are not “do or die” at all. A student can pass the class even though they fail the end-of-course test. The end-of-course testing has NOTHING to do with the graduation test.

Finally, stop blaming the teachers in high school. I do not know why, but we get students entering high school that cannot read, do not care, will not listen, only want to play around, are disrespectful, and on and on. These types of students refuse to even bring paper and a pen/pencil to class - how the heck can we teach children like this so they can pass any test? They sit in class and talk with each other, throw things, don’t listen, etc. Teachers can only do so much with these types of students.

A fellow teacher, for her mid-term test, gave a study guide to the students that were questions DIRECTLY from the actual test (they were multiple choice by the way). In addition, a bonus question on the test was, “Where did these questions come from or where have you seen these questions before?” Not one student was able to answer the bonus question on the test….. very sad. But then, “it must be the teacher’s fault,” right?

By Dan

October 13, 2005 01:25 PM | Link to this

The test are not intended to be a measure of intelligence, they are supposed to ascertain wheter or not a minimal level critical skills have been learned. An added measure, is the ability to take what you have learned and apply it towards the accomplishment of a goal. Sure many of the facts will not be used later in life, but if they can use reading writing and study habits learned in school to pass the test, it is a good indication that they can apply their learning to other problems.
and cynical guy go play with your spell checker.

By Cynical Guy

October 13, 2005 01:39 PM | Link to this

Dan,

I put all of my posts into a spelling checker and oddly enough, the only spelling error it found was from the part I cut from your post. Based on this bit of data, I think it may be appropriate for you to use a spelling checker, too!

There were a few pesky grammatical errors and an ‘and’ that was meant to be an ‘an’. But spelling was mostly good:)

By Cynical Guy

October 13, 2005 01:42 PM | Link to this

Dang…I really need help with grammar. I’ll never pass that graduation test!

By Coron

October 13, 2005 01:52 PM | Link to this

I feel that students who do not pass the tests should not be GIVEN a diploma. A high school diploma or any diploma of that matter must be earned. Students are given multiple opportunities to pass these exams. I am a graduate from Georgia and I had problems with the math portion. I knew that was my problem so I sought help and after taking it once more I passed. Why can’t students do the same thing. It’s not like they are only given one opportunity to pass it. Just because you fail it doesn’t mean you are dumb. I am now 26 and with master’s degree in education!! So kids if you don’t first succeed try and try again.

By teacherteacher

October 13, 2005 01:53 PM | Link to this

Is it time to start talking about why we have so many tests in the first place, or are we all still content to outsource the evaluations of our children?

If classroom teachers can’t make an evaluation of students based on the authentic experiences and artifacts generated in the classroom, should they be callled teachers?

By teacherteacher

October 13, 2005 01:59 PM | Link to this

Coron:

Try again? Why all the math in the first place? How much of that math have u really needed to use? I have the quadratic equation firmly lodged in my brain and I only use it when asking this question. Why all the math? Why all the science? Please don’t say “jobs” before visiting the BLS homepage. Check out the job forcasts for the next decade.

The test industry is an 8 billion dollar a year industry, supported by the federal government, which, according to Article X of the Constitution, has no place in our schools.

Who, really, benefits from all of this testing?

By CMS

October 13, 2005 02:11 PM | Link to this

Did you hear that folks? Teacherteacher just hit the nail on the head!
Schools should be funded LOCALLY, 100%. Making our children, our business.

Thanks a bunch teacherteacher!

By oldteacher

October 13, 2005 02:28 PM | Link to this

Years ago, I taught career education in the middle school. We taught then that less than 50% of the careers required a college education. It is probably still true. I have a sign in my classroom that says, You may not need to go to college to get a job, but you do have to know how to read and write to keep a job.

By David200

October 13, 2005 02:48 PM | Link to this

CMS and teacherteacher: First, you’re right about the science test. However, it does test the curriculum that we teach. I’m just not convinced that the kids need to know most of it. Why is it important for the general population to know the charge of the “fundamentalâ€? particles that really don’t exist as particles anyway? Why is it important to know an element’s relationship with its “family?â€? Now if the student is planning a career as a doctor, engineer, or chemist, that would be important; unfortunately, few kids are capable of performing those jobs. If they were, the pay scale for the positions would go way down. The point is that only specialized jobs require a knowledge of chemistry and a third of the graduation test is over chemistry. Physics is neat to know, but once again, it’s an esoteric field of information. If you’re not planning a career in engineering or the sciences, your time could be better spent in learning how our nation came into being, and how to keep it from being destroyed, or to spend it in learning how to read and write clearly. I sent a letter to Roy Barnes’s chairman of the state board of education when she wanted to require a fourth year of science and do away with the requirement for 2 years of a foreign language. I though she turned out a responsible member of society – well educated. I asked her why today’s kids should have to learn things that she didn’t or couldn’t learn. As expected, I got no reply.

Secondly, we need additional monies from someone. Local taxes will not support today’s costs in a rural school system. Where you live should not dictate how well you are educated. Now, if you want to do away with part of the income taxes for state and federal uses and increase local taxes to give to local students… (yeah, right, like that’s gonna happen

By Zoe

October 13, 2005 02:54 PM | Link to this

It is not that difficult to pass the GHSGT. All it takes is the ability to read and good attendance at school. The last group of juniors I taught did well on the GHSGT. When I saw the list of students that failed the portion of the test for the subject I taught, almost all the students fell into one of two categories (or both). The students that failed were either A) Special Education students for whom many modifications were made and I was basically told I had to pass or B) students that missed at least 10 days of school. Please realize teachers are under a tremendous amount of pressure to pass all students, not just special education students. In our system, we have been given a percentage that we are supposed to adhere to for student failures. If a teacher’s percentage of failures is too high, that teacher is called on the carpet with the administrators. Teachers say “Fine, I’ll pass them and they’ll just fail the GHSGT.”

By reva123l

October 13, 2005 03:09 PM | Link to this

As a parent of a student who has a learning disability and has taken the GHGT everytime it was offered and still missed it by points (even with tutoring) I feel this is very disheartening to the student and to the teachers who try their best and devote their time to those who want to receive a diploma. I believe that there should be some type of consideration for those students who are recognized with a valid learning disability that is recognized by the school system. (ie 504)

By em

October 13, 2005 03:09 PM | Link to this

The GHSGT is designed to insure that students have a fundamental knowledge of each core subject. The reason that the English and writing portions have such a high pass rate is due to the fact that they are incredibly easy. I have had students who can’t put two words together to construct a complete sentence receive pass plus on these portions of the GHSGT. I believe the math portion does not go beyond Algebra I (someone correct me if I’m wrong). The reasons for the high failure rates in both social studies and science are because of the heavy content of the tests and the numerous subjects that fall under each discipline. To be politically incorrect, we also need to look at what group of students is not passing. My experience tells me that the majority failing the GHSGT is NOT white, middle class students. However, I do not think the standards on the GHSGT should be lowered. Frankly, the exams are NOT that rigorous and if a student fails ANY portion of the test, the student is most definitely at fault for not taking responsibility for his or her own education.

By The Coach

October 13, 2005 03:15 PM | Link to this

em,

I hate to burst your bubble, but I see middle class white kids failing just as often as other groups. The connection I see has alot to do with personal motivation, not socioeconomics.

By reva123l

October 13, 2005 03:26 PM | Link to this

I would like to say to “em”, forgive me for pointing out that we teachers see your children more than you during the critical hours of their day. In reference to your lack of knowledge as to where the responsiblity lies. I would like to say,it is with every educator who chose to be a teacher and every parent who chose to have children.

By teacherteacher

October 13, 2005 03:28 PM | Link to this

Coach,

Yes, middle clas white kids fail state tests, but not nearly at the same rate as blacks and hispanics/latinos…See fairtest.org, the harvard civil rights project, and the Arizona Educational Policy Studies Lab for plenty of research…On the same tip, the lower your socioeconomic status, the more likely you are to fail these tests. This has to do not only with economics, but with social and cultural capital as well.

My question, still unanswered, why call an individual a teacher if she/he can’t assess the growth of the individual in her/his classroom?

By Dick

October 13, 2005 03:55 PM | Link to this

If parents would stop brainwashing their children, they could learn. All to often when minority students fail, parents use racial statistics to show this is no surprise. Instead of telling your children, what did you expect with you being minority, why not ask them “did you try”. Our society has an excuse for any and everything. It it time for all parents and legal guardians to accept responsibility as well as time for students to accept responsibility. I bet at our open house tonight, we might have 10 parents out of 120 students. That is pathetic. But yet, it will be the teachers fault. Kids and parents—-grow up!!!

By me

October 13, 2005 04:10 PM | Link to this

Georgia is not the only state with an end of the course test. I’m from New York, and in order to graduate, you must pass 2 end of course tests in math, 2-3 science tests, Global History, US History, 2 foreign language tests, and pass a state writing test (which is 6 hours long). The Georgia test/requirement is quite paltry. The New York tests also have extended portions that require written response, not just multiple choice answers. New York is not alone, as Ohio has a similar test structure.

I believe that Georgia sets its bar rather low. There must be a push for higher standards, or else students in Georgia will lag behind.

By em

October 13, 2005 04:18 PM | Link to this

Reva, I am a U.S. History teacher and in the past 10 years of teaching less than 10 of my students have failed the Social Studies portion of GHSGT. I stand by what I posted earlier. It is an incredibly easy test and students at some point must take responsibility for their own education.

By Robert

October 13, 2005 04:19 PM | Link to this

David200, If you think that the general public does not need to know basic science (chemical bonding, particle charge, etc.), then go to your kitchen and mix bleach and ammonia. I will be happy to attend your funeral!

By teacher_guy

October 13, 2005 04:23 PM | Link to this

The State of an APS School

I work for an APS elementary school and it is nothing if not chaotic to say the least. We have programs in place that are designed to help low-achieving students succeed in Reading and Mathematics, however, 5/6 of the administration team do not understand how they are implemented. To top it all off, administrators come into the classroom and write up the teachers that they see doing things differently. What a shame!

Stealing. I teach. I teach all day, every day. Sadly, I cannot say that for the majority of my colleagues. They simply engage in PBW. (Pointless Busy-Work). I have never seen 400 kids so unhappy to be at school before. It is a negative environment from the top down. There is no camaraderie among staff, as we are pitted against one another to out-perform in a series of one-up-manship contests.

We do work on units and are told that it is not good enough because our administrators did not see it at another school. We frequently have meetings where we discuss moving our work to the next level, but all ideas are shot down by administrators.

I am a teacher. I love my job. Please, just let me teach.

By SWC

October 13, 2005 04:34 PM | Link to this

I have read Mary McDonald’s article, and I agree that some leeway needs to be given for some of these students. The test may be easy for the vast majority, but some of the kids described in this story - great kids BTW are having their lives ruined by this testing requirement. I do not see this as a dumbing down of Georgia standards. Some of you may want to go back and read the article.

Teacher_Guy - yours is a classic example of bureacracy run amok. There are too many chiefs and not enough Indians. These administrators should be REQUIRED to examine other solutions, to see what has done in other similar but succesful districts as a requirement of their job. They should be willing to experiment with new solutions instead of perpetuating failure.

By David200

October 13, 2005 04:41 PM | Link to this

me: I’ve seen the NY science test. Out general 9th graders could pass it. I’ve seen the California math test too. The test doesn’t conform to the curriculum and is about as difficult as asking a student to put a set of numbers in acending order. The NY EOCT test in algebra isn’t any tougher than the GHSGT.

and em: no, the math test doesn’t go past Algebra I because the “average� high school student doesn’t need any higher mathematics. How many of you need to factor a quadratic equation or solve a problem with more than two variables? If you do, you don’t have a job that an “average� high school graduate could do, and you sure don’t get paid a high school graduate’s pay.

Someone earlier commented about the ease of the PRAXIS tests. I can’t speak about that because I took the TCT to get my license. It was pitifully easy. You’re right, it is sad that we let people retake it over and over. That’s the problem with the education colleges. The problem though is that we still can’t get enough qualified people to get into the field. That’s one of the reasons why we have poor teachers. I just checked a few weeks ago (during Katrina). I found out the job I left (insurance adjuster with 10 years of experience) paid about 50% more than I would make with a Ph. D. and 20 years of experience in teaching science. I would have a hard time trying to entice a former co-worker to take a job teaching.

The object of a public school education is to prepare a “child� to be an educated citizen capable of performing the duties of a citizen. It’s not to prepare a “worker� for a “job.� That’s supposed to be OJT (On the Job Training) and the responsibility of the company hiring the educated citizen.

By SWC

October 13, 2005 05:00 PM | Link to this

Teacher_Guy - The more I think about your story the more irritated I get. This is what I would do if I were you: Write a letter to your local newspaper describing the situation, or call the paper and ask to speak with the education reporter. Be a “whistleblower”. You should be able to remain anonymous. Or, call your local tv station and suggest that they do a story about what is going on at this school.

I’d also write to Governor Perdue and to Kathy Cox and to your local school board. Go to a board meeting and explain the situation.

Write the education committee in the state legislature. Write your local state reps and senators. Call local radio shows. Get the pot boiling.

This kind of thing is not just a waste of tax payer dollars, it is a tragic waste of our children’s lives.