Get Schooled

By oldteacher

October 7, 2005 08:24 AM | Link to this

As an adult, I would love to work a 10 hour, 4 day week. As a teacher, I don’t think it is a good idea. I don’t think that the attention span of middle school students (and younger) is long enough to support this idea. Also, unless the rest of the world goes to a 4 day week, what would parents do? I have never been a parent but I do understand the need to have someone supervise your children when the you needs to work to put food on the table.

By oldteacher

October 7, 2005 08:27 AM | Link to this

Oops, sorry about the type O.

By GINGER

October 7, 2005 08:46 AM | Link to this

OH YES!! It can be done and should be done. There are so many things that could and would and should change if they went to a 4 day week.
1. Nonsense stuff like club meetings (my daughter’s high school has them at least 2 times month if not more) would be relegated to AFTER SCHOOL or BEFORE SCHOOL like they should be, 2. The required pep rally would be done the same way ( I know, its only 45 minutes, but still, that should be learning time, not, lets oogle the jocks and the cheerleaders time- and yes, I have several “jocks” and a professional cheerleader in my family, and my kids are atheletic too) 3. It might get some of the numb-skulls that don’t care about learning out of the classroom (because the teachers would have less time, and less patience, with troublemakers) so those who want to learn CAN. Thus, the quality of the education would come up because the troublemakers would be less likely to be there, and the kids would be more focused. 4. Economically, it would be much better OVER THE LONG RUN. That is where this will fall short, as people will look at the here and now rather than further down the road. The savings would be in the following ways (just off the top of my head): a. diesel for the busses 225,000 gal. per day x even 1.42 per gal as I heard one school was under contract for=$319,500 saved PER DAY. That is taxpayer money people, and we should be good stewards of it!! b. Heating and cooling for the school buildings that extra day. c. Grocery costs for the school. If they don’t have to feed x amount of people for 2 meals for 1 day, that can add up to a significant savings. d. wear and tear on teachers and students alike. By Friday, everyone is just there, for the most part. Everyone is tired and worn out and more prone to be cantankerous.

Think about this for a moment. Teachers spend time out side of school hours working on lesson plans, grading etc, and sometimes, they get pushed too much for time and are not AS prepared as maybe they ought to be. Don’t get your dander up, I have been there, so I know of which I speak. If they had that extra day, many of them would use that to get better prepped for the coming week and still have time to rest and be with their families on the weekend. This would be a win win situation. A rested, well prepared person is more productive and easier to get along with than a tired, rushed person. They don’t burn out as quickly either.

The kids would benefit so much from this as well. They would be more rested and have time to be kids. My older 2 would love the chance to work at their jobs more(most teens would like more $, this is a way to do that) or have time to work with their horses more than they have now. They would have more time to devote to projects the schools assign, or to study, or just read and relax.

I know that daycare may be a problem for some, but they will get that back on taxes anyway in April in the form of child care credits.The money saved by the schools could result in lower taxes eventually and that would be more money in the parents pockets.

Homeschoolers are only required to do 4-4.5 hours per day and they consistently score as high or higher than public school kids on standard tests. Why can they do this in 20-22.5 hours per week and public schools get 7 hours per day (plus homework time) for 35 hours weekly? Class size does help here, but not having to deal with discipline problems of kids who are there because they don’t have a choice is a big factor. The paperwork is a big factor as well. My biggest factor when I was teaching my own kids and many others in my living room in MS (homeschool) was that I had time to get prepared and push the learning issues.They got interested and learned well the material I had planned. When I was overtired or not well prepared, I had trouble keeping on task, and the kids knew it and did not cooperate as well. If ps teachers were given this same chance, our gov’t schools would be amazing. The talent is there, the love is there; they just need the time. Oh well, I have gotten a tad bit rambly here, so I will conclude this post.A 4 day week benefits EVERYONE from the govenor down to the pre-K level, regardless of how much people don’t want to give up the free daycare they view ps as or don’t want to change what has been for decades. Just think how much good a 3 day weekend does for you on your regular job. Now, apply that to children who are not as mature as adults and the teachers that deal with them everyday. How much good will a break do them? Face it folks, we can’t get a whole lot worse than we are now in terms of education, why not try something a little different. If it works GREAT, if not, we have learned something new.

By Sly

October 7, 2005 09:11 AM | Link to this

Who’s gonna read a post that long….?

By C. B.

October 7, 2005 09:14 AM | Link to this

You mean I could sleep in on Fridays?! That would be so…….. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzz… awesome. Oh, and good for the kids too. >:)
Mine are good, smart kids who are on the Honor Roll every semester— and I doubt that would change with one less day of school a week. It’s up to each parent to make it work.

By HStchr

October 7, 2005 09:15 AM | Link to this

I think high school students, and MAYBE middle school students would benefit, but can you really imagine a room full of elementary kids after 3:00!! We’d have to raise the teachers’ salaries just for hazard pay!! Let’s create some satellite schools for a trial and see how it works. I see it working at the high school level.

By DB

October 7, 2005 09:17 AM | Link to this

I did.

By DB

October 7, 2005 09:18 AM | Link to this

Schools are already doing it, so just see what happens in those places.

By Faye McCrary

October 7, 2005 09:19 AM | Link to this

The bottom line people is that we are going to have to do something different to get a different result. How about the parents taking responsibility and on that Friday that they will be off and their child is out of school, let the parents teach their children, discicpline their children. I do not have the patience to be a teacher with all of these disrespectful little kids…if I were their teacher they would be going home crying everyday…saiding Mrs. McCrary washed my mouth out with soap, or Mrs. McCrary spanked my butt and made me sit down…ie…

By Lee

October 7, 2005 10:07 AM | Link to this

Why not give them Friday off? That way, the parents could enroll them in a (pick one: soccer, baseball, football, tennis) camp and junior could get in an extra day of practice before the big game on Saturday. Next, the parents would start complaining that the longer school day was interfering with all of their after school activities (again, little league, ballet, karate, soccer, etc, etc).

I said that facetiously, but you know that probably is what would happen.

By CR

October 7, 2005 10:09 AM | Link to this

I don’t think this is a good idea. I enjoyed school and studying, but still remember feeling burned out by the end of each day and tending to zone out by halfway through that last class. I also remember how much easier (and more productive) studying was for me in college since I had periodic breaks longer than 5 minutes each and fewer classes each day. I could walk around outside a bit instead of being cooped up sitting in an uncomfortable desk hour after hour. If Friday’s class time is broken up and tacked on to the other 4 days, I don’t think those hours would be as productive as they are now simply because people’s brains get tired! I also think longer days would mean more discipline problems.

By BBedford

October 7, 2005 10:28 AM | Link to this

A four day week, is Georgia aiming to be the 50th state in educational rankings? At this rate why make kids go to school at all?

Continue to view taxes used toward teachers’ salaries, school maintenance and our future generations as a monetary burden and sit back and watch how many more countries surpass us… China, Japan, India…When grown adults don’t view education as a priority and place little value on a child’s future - why should children see it any different?

By Just Me

October 7, 2005 10:33 AM | Link to this

I, personally, would be in favor of a four day week.

Some people may not realize, but many students (including elementary) are already at school for nearly 8 hours a day rather than the requried 6.5. At our school, the busses drop off at 8:00 when school doesn’t officially start until 8:45. Most of the busses haven’t picked up until 4:00 when school dismisses at 3:10.

If that time could be used for instructional time rather than a babysitting service, the time could be much more productive.

By Ms. Ann

October 7, 2005 10:40 AM | Link to this

I agree with Mrs. McCrary. I’ve always wanted to be a teacher of small children to make a difference in them for when they are grown. I firmly believe in disciple starting at home. Everyone is to blame. It goes like this…The teachers need more training to handle my child (You need training so they won’t be cuttin’ up in school)… I can’t discipline their kid out of fear the parent will come and cuss me out (I think you can handle a child and make them mind)…My mama said you ain’t my mama and you can’t tell me what to do…(Tell your child to do what they are told as olng as it doesn’t involve bodily harm). The problem is we’ll be going around and around in circles with this issue because there are so many different opinions. I’m all for having a 4 day work/school week. That one day would give everyone (parents, teachers, students) time to wind down drom the stresses of the current week. But what about the parents who can’t afford to take off because of not having a baby sitter? I think if we as consumers bite the bullet, then the providers should lower the cost of living. Prices are steadily rising, but the idea or suggestion to cut down on school time comes up. Maybe if prices are lowered, it wouldn’t be such a burden. Why are prices rising anyway? I mean how much money does one really need? If prices would stop going up, more parents would have more time to spend with their kids and wouldn’thave to worry about the TV programs and Radio programs raising them. Also the demand to get “High” would lessen because eveybody wouldn’t have to get high to forget about the rising economy. Parents: Get a hold of yourself so that you can help your children. Children: Understand we’re only here to make it easier for you. Teachers: Go back to the old way of doing things. Everyone: We need to learn to take responsibilty so that we don’t continue to raise unproductive citizens. But who am I?

By Karen Armsby

October 7, 2005 10:42 AM | Link to this

If there was a nationwide shift to a four day work week, then the schools could easily accomodate the four day week as well. Make Friday through Sunday the new weekend. Many people already work 10 hours, 4 days a week.

By Tired Teacher

October 7, 2005 10:45 AM | Link to this

As an adult I would love to work four 10 hour days and have three off. As a teacher though, I can say from my 12 years in the classroom that this would probably be a bad idea. Class periods are already way beyond the length of time that research shows kids can pay attention. For the average middle schooler the attention span is around 20-30 minutes and we are keeping them in their classs from 50 to 90 minutes. Adding 2 hours on to the day will more than likely lead to more frustration and a spike in discipline problems which are already way out of control.

By Leia

October 7, 2005 10:51 AM | Link to this

I would support a 4 day week whole-heartedly. As many have already said, the day off would allow me to plan more and prepare more interactive lessons.

By the way, the “day off” that is being proposed in Gwinnett is Monday, not Friday.

By Ed U. Cation

October 7, 2005 10:53 AM | Link to this

Save money - I don’t think so. How much will it cost parents to find day care one day a week for their children? If you are planning organized Friday activities at schools, who pays for them and how do children get there? What are unsupervised children going to do?

By Karen Armsby

October 7, 2005 11:06 AM | Link to this

Tired Teacher, I think schools should work smarter, not harder, and I agree with you that class periods now are too long for children’s attention spans. It is not natural or smart to require children to sit still for such prolonged periods without a change in activity and movement. IMHO boredom, behavior problems, and obesity can all be linked to the sedentary, and mind numbingingly long class periods.

What if the 10 hour day did not consist of more academic classes but included a period for homework time/study hall, a period of physical activity for ALL students, a period for creative arts, and in middle and high school a period for service and academic clubs or organized sports? When students have study hall or non academic periods, the teachers could have a full hour of uninterrupted planning time.

I think a more smarter class schedule would be balanced day of academic, physical, and structured social and creative periods that would make the actual time spent on academcs more effective. And I think everyone would be happier, more relaxed and the students could learn just as much.

By Karen Armsby

October 7, 2005 11:08 AM | Link to this

Please excuse the “more smarter” grammar typo.

By Ga_Tech_92

October 7, 2005 11:14 AM | Link to this

Hello all,

There are no black and white answers to anything, but here are my thoughts.

*someone said that kids are in school extra time beyond when they are learning…that 4 days a week could utilize that extra time they are already at school. My thought on this is: Why are they at school not learning some of the time? Either it’s because it’s not possible, in which case drop this point. Or the time could be used all 5 days and benefit the kids even more.

*I’ve worked 4 day weeks 10 hour days and my experience as a 30+ year old was that it does become difficult to focus and learn as much towards the end of that 10 hours…I’m not sure a child is more prepared than an adult for this challenge. It can be done, the point is…it’s harder on them.

*SOmeone made the point that it will save money for the schools and thus save us tax dollars. Do you really think that if Politician X has extra tax dollars to spend that YOU or I will see that money?…please…politicians buy votes by spending tax dollars…they aren’t in business to save us that money. Additionally, longer hours at school will have some costs associated with it that might not be clear at this point.

*I’m a single parent…no family in state…and a dead beat ex Wife for a ‘partner’. Half of my pay goes towards keeping my son in a decent private school, because I don’t want him to be a part of the school district that I can afford to live in. I have sacrificed to be able to afford this: we share a one bedroom apt, no cell phone (gasp), no cable (gasp), we eat noodles and other dollar or less meals at least once a week, we never eat out, I take my lunch to work every day…etc…the other half of my pay goes to rent. My bonus pays utilities and clothes and food. I have a good job and a college education and finances are CRIPPLING because of debt aquired to defend my son during a nasty custody battle. When schools were closed JUST monday and tuesday…I had already paid my private school dues…and then had to pay another day care money I didn’t have to spare (comes out of thin air yes?…because we are strapped to the bone already). My job is in constant jepardy because when he gets sick I have to miss the time, due to no one else is available…etc. I personally cannot imagine how I would financially handle paying someone to watch my son one day a week. I cannot imagine how it would HELP him either.

I’m 100% against this idea. It would completely cripple me financially and I’m not frivolous with my money, nor am I ‘poor’. I can’t imagine how it would effect truely disadvantaged people.

forgive my spelling please…I’m a math guy :)

(GO JACKETS)

By Cranky

October 7, 2005 11:20 AM | Link to this

Here we go again. Parents complaining about having to deal with their kids. So there is discussion about reorganizing the school days and parents start complaining about not having anyone to pawn there kids off on. I’m pretty sure if this were a problem you could…oh I don’t know, WORK AROUND YOUR KID’S SCHEDULE. I find it pathetic that most of what I see is parents complaining they have to deal with there kids. Maybe that is why teachers, bus drivers, and other school employees have to handle their behavioral problems. If I where treated like dog right before I went on vacation I would be pretty dysfunctional too. Good luck with creating a well rounded human being.

By Cranky

October 7, 2005 11:28 AM | Link to this

GATech92…exception to the rule. Just eanting about the parents who can afford and treat their kids as house plants is all.

By Ga_Tech_92

October 7, 2005 11:29 AM | Link to this

Cranky, if you are talking to me…please note I’m not complaining about pawning my kids off.

I gave legit opinions about specific situations.

I sacrifice to do what’s best for my son…and I’m pawning him off?

I have a job allows me to keep him in a good school and live in a safe neighborhood…and I’m somehow complaining about “dealing with him”?

To the contrary. I think 10 hours is too long…additionally I’m being a realist about the FACT that employers are NOT generally interested in letting their employes alter the work week.

If I was a stay home parent on welfare I could swing this no problem, but to me THAT would be irresponsible and pawning duties off on others.

We do our homework together every night. We read nightly. We pray. We go to church. We excersize. We squeek by financially…I’m not complaining…I’m factually saying that there are litterally NO OTHER CORNERS to be cut…does your entire family live in a one bedroom? Did you sacrifice your savings to protect your family in court? Did you work nights to put yourself through college to have a decent job, and still are tight as hell on money?

Don’t give me the same tired “pawning responsiblity off” speach and don’t judge me…I’m one of the good, hard working folks in ATL who isn’t looking for a hand out.

The topic is what do you think about 4 days a week…and I presented several valid reasons that I’m against it. There is no need to demean me for it. I resent your comments and don’t feel you supported your point in any way.

Finally, someone much wiser than me once said “Never judge another person, ‘til you’ve walked ten miles in their shoes” (or similar)

I wish I were that wise and smart.

By Cranky

October 7, 2005 11:30 AM | Link to this

GATech92…exception to my ranting. I am venting more about the parents who treat their kids like house plants is all.

By Cranky

October 7, 2005 11:31 AM | Link to this

Also, I wrote that before I saw yours. ;)

By Ga_Tech_92

October 7, 2005 11:32 AM | Link to this

I didn’t see your followup, you weren’t talking directly to me…I appologize for my pationate and direct response to you. This is a heated topic, no doubt about it. For the record…I do agree with your view in general in the respect that there are SO many lazy dead beat parents who will be against this for the reason that I felt accused of. There are exceptions to every rule as you pointed out. I hope and pray I’m truely doing all I can every day. I have peace in my life and my son is a good boy. All we can do is, well…”to do all we can do” :)

thanks for reading

By Dog

October 7, 2005 11:35 AM | Link to this

GA Tech. If you had gone to UGA instead you’d be further in life and have a much gooder job.

By Cranky

October 7, 2005 11:39 AM | Link to this

It’s cool. I just think there has to be a balance. There are families that struggle to make it and really care about their kids. Then you have some who pay more attention to Tivo than their children. Maybe for families that can’t go to a fulltime 4 day work week could maybe rotate with a small group of parents. Something 5 parents rotate the one day off to watch the others. Just a sugestion, but nothing has even been decided not really valid yet.

By GSU grad

October 7, 2005 11:44 AM | Link to this

Or you could have gone to GSU so you’d know how to have the most bestest job!! :-)

Tech—-single full-time dad myself. Can’t say I’d like my boys being in school four days for that long either. I have a seven year old that would drive himself and his teacher over the edge if he had to be there for another hour or two!

By Ga_Tech_92

October 7, 2005 11:49 AM | Link to this

I went to Georgia Southern COLLEGE first out of High School…BEST TIME OF MY LIFE…Erk Russel era…tres’ fun times!…then I decided I should be a rich and famous engineer…so as it turns out…I’m a strugling single parent in return for the planning……not complaining…just funny how life turns out sometimes :)

…in spite of good planning

By Just Me

October 7, 2005 11:52 AM | Link to this

The children are currently required to be in school 6.5 hours per day. That’s 32.5 hours per week. Distributed among 4 days, that’s not 10 hours per day. It’s a little over 8 hours per day.

What exactly is the proposal???

By Dick

October 7, 2005 11:54 AM | Link to this

The solution to our school educational problems are faily simple an inexpensive. Steps to do so are as follows, not necessarily in correct order. 1. fill class room with qualified teachers, teaching in their fields. 2. allow local school systems control. What works in Atlanta will not work in small towns, and what works in small towns will not work in Atlanta. 3. make parents responsible for childs actions-look at article in todays paper concerning shortage of bus drivers due to childrens lack of respect and manners. 4. get federal government out of educational business completely. 5. require parents/guardians to attend PTA meetings. 6. place emphasis on academics, not athletics. 7. stop placing so much emphasis and money on special education. 8. allow office of superintendetns to be elected offices, not appointed (could cut out some of the good-ole-boy politics). 9. build smaller schools.

By South Ga

October 7, 2005 11:54 AM | Link to this

I think that we should commend GA Tech for making the sacrifices to do what is right.
Anyway, we are a family of two working adults. I am lucky that my job is very flexible, however, I still have to work 5 days a week, due the nature of the clients that I support. They work 5 days a week ( in other states ). We saved and planned in order for my wife to be able to stay home for 2 years, b/c it was the right thing to do ( in our opinion ), so I am not coming from the ” I cannot deal with my kids camp “.

I think that the real issue here is that Purdue wants to save money, but why pick on the school system? How about cutting some pork barrel spending in order to save money. And I agree that if anything, we should be spending more money to support our teachers and schools. I volunteered at several schools through the Junior Acheivement organization and it is a really tough and demanding job. I couldn’t imagine having to keep the attention of 20+ kids for more than 8 hours a day. I just don’t think that we can reasonably expect employers to get on board with a 4 day work week, to allow at least one parent to be there for their kids on their extra day off.

I am against it.

By oldteacher

October 7, 2005 11:56 AM | Link to this

Read the CNN article about 4 day school week. This particular system is taking Monday off and not Friday. I don’t know if that makes a difference to anyone but me. My bf’s day off is Monday and that would be fun. Of course I don’t really think we should go to a 4 day school week.

By Lynda Funderburke

October 7, 2005 12:12 PM | Link to this

Come on people, We live in GA and we are number 50 on the list of schools. GA kids are already behind most of the WORLD. If we go with a 4 day week then we would really be LOW on the numbers list. I have 4 kids. 2 of them are young adults and went to GA schools back in the 80’s, my other 2 are going now (6th and 4th). My 2 older ones know MORE then the younger ones do. STOP TRYING TO MAKE LIFE EASIER FOR THE ADULTS amd remember that the kids in the schools now are going to be running this country in the real near future. SO WALKE UP AND SAY NO TO 4 DAY WEEKS……………

By John McNeal

October 7, 2005 12:17 PM | Link to this

Personally, I think that every ones mentality is going to have to change. For years Americans have gotten fat, and lazy. We have been spoiled by having many things that other nations have taken for granted. Other would powers have been dealing with high gas prices for decades. Gas is $10 a gallon in Great Briton. Be realistic. Do you really need that SUV ? How many people who have SUV’s ever are in a situation where they really need them ? Great, they are large, safe, and can carry a lot of people. They are equipped with satellite radio, and DVD players to entertain the kids. Do they really need that ? Maybe little Johnny would have a higher SAT score if he was reading while riding instead of watching a movie, or playing on his portable playstation. Maybe obesity, especially childhood obesity would not be an issue if we walked more to do our errands instead of driving. I work in a area where there are several fast food places within a couple block distance. And do you know how many times I see people jumping in their car, and waiting in the drive through line at the restaurant waiting to get their lunch when I will walk the couple of blocks and get my meal sooner, and burn off some calories in the progress.

By Jake

October 7, 2005 12:19 PM | Link to this

For once I agree with Karen. Flex time and the four day work week peaked about 15 years ago in Corporate America. Now the norm for salaried workers is 50 or more hours spread over 5 and sometimes 6 days. Since many people already tell teachers their small salaries are commensurate with their 190 day work years, it’s very unlikely there will ever be 4 day school to any significant degree. Eleven months of school is much more likely.

By DB

October 7, 2005 12:44 PM | Link to this

CR: Your productivity in college didn’t have anything to do with the fact that you usually only have 3 classes per week for each subject and did more work on your own? Just food for thought.

By a concerned parent

October 7, 2005 12:59 PM | Link to this

oh my gosh Ginger, sounds like you don’t like kids very much. personally i don’t think 10 hours a day in school is gonna do much for kids, not when they have to be up at 5:30am to get ready and catch the 6:30am school bus. they will be zombies by the days end, and how will they ever stay focused if they are tired. how will the mountains of homework get done if they’re worn out from being in school all day. when will they have time to play outside and be a kid, sounds like this plan is designed to make a nation of kids who will not know what its like to be a kid, not to mention the health problems asociated with not getting enough rest or exercise that they get from running and playing outside. by the way, if they do work 10 hours a day how many breaks do they get and is lunch extended to an hour?

By Kerra

October 7, 2005 12:59 PM | Link to this

Hmmmmm….interesting. My kids are in elementary school now and get out at 3:50. So with extended times, will they get home by bedtime?

By Dawn

October 7, 2005 01:01 PM | Link to this

I’m against the 4 day week. As others have said, the younger children’s attention spans will not accommodate longer school day. My kids start elementary school at 7:40 a.m., which is way too early in my opinion. If they have to stay another couple of hours and then still have homework to do when they get home (you know homework won’t be eliminated), I fully anticipate more behavioral problems that will be created by exhaustion and stagnancy—not bad kids. And it’s not only the children. The teachers have had it by the end of the current school day. So, what I’m hearing from many of you is that you want the teachers to spend longer at school each day and then use the extra “day off” for grading papers and planning classes. Are they to be reimbursed for the extra time they put in? Who’s going to pay for the extra day of child care? That tax refund that was alluded to doesn’t nearly cover what’s actually paid and most of the working parents I know are already stretched to the limit.

To get slightly off subject, it absolutely pains me every time I read these blogs or the messages that young people send to each other. The spelling and grammar is attrocious! I know that supposedly it’s “cool” to ignore spelling, grammar and punctuation in blogs and e-mail, but I highly suspect it’s mainly an excuse to cover for people’s shortcomings. Maybe if parents (and a lot of teachers!) were better prepared in those areas then their children would do better in school.

I’m not perfect by any means and make mistakes like everyone, but I try my best. I also try to impress upon my children the importance of proper grammar, spelling, punctuation, speech and diction. I want them to be able to help themselves accomplish great things in life. A person can have the highest possible IQ, but if they can’t spell and they speak poorly, the impression they will present is that they are just plain DUMB. Life is hard enough without starting off with a handicap that can be avoided with a little thought and extra effort.

Okay, I’m off my soap box. Sorry for rambling.

By DB

October 7, 2005 01:02 PM | Link to this

Anyone for Wednesdays off instead? If they’re going to do it, I think three-day weekends will just waste time. Wednesdays could be an “off-day” to allow kids to do homework, study, and catch up with their classes. And teachers could maintain sanity and passion. Also, that way there will not be a 3-day gap each week.

In reality, the real problem in education lies in the lack of discipline and expectations, but having four-day weeks may actually improve things and save money to boot.

By David200

October 7, 2005 01:03 PM | Link to this

Guys, I’m so tired of hearing that old saw about the “50th in the nation.” You know that’s not true; the paper knows it’s not true; dadgummint, the whole nation knows it’s not true. The party that’s out of favor keeps bringing it up to whip up on teachers so the “iggnent masses” will vote for them. This is an education blog. We’re supposed to be moderately intelligent. Let’s stay with the truth: Georgia’s students are “average.” Our kids are right in the middle plus one minus one. This “50th in the nation” is all about using a statistical lie (there are 3 types of lies: lies, damned lies, and then statistics) of comparing apples to eggs to further a political opinion. If you don’t like the way we’re specifically doing things in education, say so. Don’t use a comparison of average SAT scores across states with different percentages of minorities with different percentages of subjects taking the exam and then claim those scores are relevant. No self-respecting mathematician would do so.

By DB

October 7, 2005 01:04 PM | Link to this

Also, maybe we don’t even need to extend the school day. Maybe having 4 more productive days would make the difference. Of course the states would have to change their requirements.

By DB

October 7, 2005 01:05 PM | Link to this

Dawn: It’s atrocious! How ironic! Thanks for the laugh.

By DB

October 7, 2005 01:11 PM | Link to this

David200: Yes, the “50th” cliche is getting very old! I would almost assume that those that keep using it as a general argument are the ones contributing to it the most.

By Dawn

October 7, 2005 01:11 PM | Link to this

Yeah, I know, DB. I posted before I intended to. I didn’t get to follow my own rule of proof reading 3 times before sending. I caught another mistake. Left out “a” in the second sentence. But I did qualify at the end that I make mistakes too. At least I’m trying, unlike most of the others.

By DB

October 7, 2005 01:13 PM | Link to this

Dawn: I understand. We all make mistakes. I just thought it was hilarious! :)

By Mia

October 7, 2005 01:25 PM | Link to this

Dawn - I appreciated the laugh too! By the way, it’s not “The spelling and grammar is attrocious!” It should be “The spelling and grammar are atrocious!

By Ga_Tech_92

October 7, 2005 01:39 PM | Link to this

OK I for one admit that I haven’t the most correct spelling and grammar. However; I am intellegent to speak with. I have a great vocabulary and can do triple integral calculus. Spelling has always been my weakest subject; however, deans list at Ga Tech tends to indicate that I’m a dedicated student. If this blog had a spell checker, I would be using it. However; when I read/write these posts, I don’t have time to hit the dictonary as much as I would need to. So my choices are this: post imperfect posts and contribute to the conversation….or don’t.

I choose to contribute, because I want to.

I hope that’s reasonable :)

By HStchr

October 7, 2005 01:40 PM | Link to this

As an English teacher, you folks make me proud!! At least you know your grammar. Now if I could just get it across to my ninth graders this next period…

By Kerra

October 7, 2005 01:44 PM | Link to this

Very REASONABLE Ga_Tech

By Ga_Tech_92

October 7, 2005 01:46 PM | Link to this

I agree totally that the L33T wayz 2 ch@t are very harmfull overtime to the already challenged youths of the world!

I hope you were addressing those sorts of things.

By FK

October 7, 2005 01:59 PM | Link to this

I am against the four day school week. It is my opinion that elementary school kids need school instruction five days per week. It is amazing to see how much of the learned knowledge the kids lose over a vacation break. I think teachers would be working ever harder on Mondays. Those days may become review days because many children will not have had any kind of academic work since the previous Thursday, reading included.

A complaint of many of my working friends when our children were in the 5-7th grades was that there was not a daycare solution for 10-13 year olds. The older children didn’t want to go to traditional daycare centers with the younger children. Many of these kids still required supervision to stay out of trouble. If a four day school week becomes a reality, how many children will be home alone on Fridays, unsupervised? There are many latch key children who go home to empty houses after school. An hour or two spent at home alone is not too long for a responsible kid, but all day is far too much.

Oh, sure the savings in fuel costs would be great if the school buses did not run on Fridays. No argument there. How much fuel would be conserved if all elementary and middle school children rode the buses to and from school instead of parents driving them everyday, not to mention the parents who drive their kids to the bus stops?! Why not make driving a car to school a senior privilege? Those two suggestions would keep the many cars of parents and underclassmen in driveways instead of idling in traffic with the school buses. Would less traffic congestion lead to less fuel consumption and lower costs?

By teacher

October 7, 2005 02:09 PM | Link to this

Those who want to extend the school day by 2 hours have never taught 6th graders last period of the day.

By Teacher

October 7, 2005 02:12 PM | Link to this

Why does everyone think that the typical adult works Monday-Friday, 8-5? At the school where I teach, this is definitely not so. A lot of these parents struggle to find childcare for Saturday and Sunday while they work, or for night shifts. These people will not be any more inconvenienced by a 4 day school week. I guess the ones with the loudest voices (and most money) will complain because they are lucky enough to work bank hours.

As for me, I already work 10 hour days as a teacher, and I’m willing to be most of us do.

By Tony

October 7, 2005 02:27 PM | Link to this

Going to a four day week would be senseless without testing the idea first to assure learning improves, or at the least, stays the same.

Also, the “50th in the nation” is false and everyone should know this. Some facts based on the National Assessment for Educational Progress may help put this question in perspective: 1. Writing test in 8th grade most recent year available is 2002: Georgia’s average score was 147. 24 states scored better and 15 scored worse. 2 scored the same. The national average was 152. 2. 4th grade reading from 2003: Georgia’s avg. score was 214. The US average was 216. 37 scored better, 2 scored the same and 11 scored worse. 3. 4th grade math from 2003: Georgia’s average was 230. The US average was 234. 35 states scored better and 14 scored worse. There is more information available at http://www.asbj.com/evs/04/state.html

No, we are not first in the nation and we are not 50th.

By HSTeach

October 7, 2005 02:41 PM | Link to this

GINGER Saving fuel would eventually be spent again making up the days…..just because we go to a 4-day week doesn’t mean we go to a 144 day school-year (I think that’s right 180-36=144….right?)

By HSTeach

October 7, 2005 02:43 PM | Link to this

everyone I’m an idiot…I just realized what I typed…. It’s been a long week… sorry

By Robert

October 7, 2005 03:16 PM | Link to this

I can already hear the grips from the ignorant…. “You teachers only have to work 4 days a week!”

By David

October 7, 2005 03:22 PM | Link to this

Oh yes, great idea. Let’s give Georgia’s kids a four day work week. Better yet, let’s drop it down to three, but three is too many, would two be ok, what about one? What’s the use, why bother sending them there anyway? Kids aren’t learning much anyway except how to become a burden on tax payers by getting pregnant or failing to meet minimum standards. Then we can repeal the child labor laws and compete head-on with China and the rest of the third world nations!

By juli

October 7, 2005 03:43 PM | Link to this

Bad idea, folks, bad idea. I can’t just stay home one day per week with my kids!!

And what about the roving bands of teenagers who will surely terrorize malls and raise havoc?

By GINGER

October 7, 2005 03:59 PM | Link to this

A CONCERNED PARENT I would really like to know how you figure that I don’t like kids. I adore kids. I have 4 of my own and have helped raise several others. I do have high expectations of children, but I don’t expect them to be perfect.

I did over look the issue of homework,but as far as getting up at 5:30 to catch a 6:30 bus-we already do. They catch the bus at 6:45 am. But, my kids are not pampered like others may be, in that they have had to get up around 5 (or earlier) all their lives. They were farm kids until we moved back to GA, and they work hard. My 17 yr old daughter will work circles around many a grown man in hard jobs.

You had a good idea about extending the lunch hour for the kids. As far as homework, I disagree with homework in general, unless it is truly needed . The other way I agree with homework, and I practiced what I preach about this, is that if a child wasted the teacher’s time in class, then he/she owed that teacher the time back in the form of homework.

I don’t believe I said anything about extending the day. I think the time the public system has can be utilized better if it were not for the discipline cases the teachers have to deal with. Ask a public school teacher how much more effective he/she could be if she didn’t have little Johnny or Susie being a heck raiser in class and being rude, stubborn and defiant. That behavior is counter-productive.

HSTeach- you are right about the 180 vs 144 days. I still think it is worth it.

I have great respect for my daughters’ teachers, but given my choice, again, I would homeschool, because they are MY responsibility.

By Queen

October 7, 2005 04:04 PM | Link to this

Once again, we are putting the almighty dollar ahead of our children. Perhaps a four day week would indeed save money; however, we need to consider the effect of such a change on our children. Why are so many other countries ahead of the United States when it comes to education? Because education is a privilege, not a right. In most countries around the world, at the age of ten-twelve, each child is tested to decide if he/she is better suited for career training or higher education. Only the most qualified students continue into high school while the other students began to train for a career. In the United States, we force all students to stay in school until a certain age, regardless of ability or personal preference. It is unfair to compare systems of education that are founded on completely different principles.

By Ginger

October 7, 2005 04:16 PM | Link to this

Queen, AMEN! I agree with you ! The whole reason that older kids that have no interest in learning are still in school is because of the almighty dollar.

My oldest-in 3rd grade- missed several days of school because my mother was dying and she and Kate were very close. The school was aware of the situation, but yet they sent me a note saying that my child had missed x amount of FUNDABLE days. FUNDABLE, people. That told me right there that it was a business, and the sole purpose was not to educate the children.

The Amish do like many European nations do as well, in that they believe that after 8th grade, the children need to continue learning, but learn a trade instead. I have 4 girls-2 of which are definitely headed to college for advanced degrees. The other 2, while A-B students, don’t have the love of learning that the other 2 do. These have been told that they do not have to go to college, but they must have some form of education-regardless of if is trade school, apprenticing with someone, or what have you. NOT ALL EDUCATION COMES FROM A BOOK.

Queen is completely right-education is a privilege, not a right once you get to a certain age.

By AddictMom

October 7, 2005 04:19 PM | Link to this

Yea Queen - and other countries don’t have the racial differences we have here in the US. How many minorities are there in Japan, China, or Australia. Of course their systems will work better because they don’t have to dumb down to the lowest common denominator and be politically correct. Rural Georgia compared to China? C’mon. Give a redneck a break.

By teacher_guy

October 7, 2005 04:20 PM | Link to this

Theoretically, a 4-day school week would be well-worth it. I teach from 8:00 - 2:30 everyday. 90 minutes is used for our school-wide reading program. Another 90 minutes is used for our school-wide mathematics program. 30 minutes are used to begin the day with Drop Everything and Read. The last 20 minutes of the day is spent journal writing. That adds to 230 minutes (or roughly 4 hours.) This leaves but 2.5 hours to have lunch, one of either art, music, phys. ed., Spanish, Social Studies, and Science.

A four-day week, with extended class days would allow us to cover all content areas, as is already expected. If school were to run until 4:30, we could afford to delve into the subject matter.

I think an extended day, 4-day work week would only hurt after-school programs that might not have enough business to remain open.

I’d like to give it a try, because right now, the only way I can see to cover the curriculum is to extend the school day.

By b. white

October 7, 2005 04:24 PM | Link to this

You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make him drink. You can send a child to school, but you can’t make him think. Low achieving students could go to school 356 days a year and still have low test scores. High achieving students could get the job done in 90 days. If the desire to learn is not there NOTHING can be done!!!!!!!!!!!

By C. B.

October 7, 2005 04:42 PM | Link to this

I dunno if I speak for most of us, but I should think so….. GA Tech 92: Keep your personal “woman troubles” to yourself, and stop being so nasty here. This is about school, not your opinions of your ex. I hope you wash out that mouth before your son hears you.

By MrLiberty

October 7, 2005 04:50 PM | Link to this

How would this ever work? Government schools are the free daycare centers parents dump their kids in so that they can either go to work or be rid of them. If they now had to deal with the kids around them on Fridays, or with nowhere else to lock them up, they would freak out.

Here’s an even better idea. Shut the schools down for all 5 days of the week, make parents have to be responsible for the education of their own children, and eliminate all of the regulations that restrict the innovation of private schools and homeschoolers. 150+ years of failure are quite enough for the government in its attempt to “educate” (indoctrinate) the youth of america.

Our future, our freedom, and our republic require that these kinds of drastic steps be taken.

By Karen Armsby

October 7, 2005 05:01 PM | Link to this

Aaahhhh, Mr. Liberty, I was wondering when you would weigh in with your sour grapes. Most parents are responsible caring parents who are involved and interested in their children’s lives and education, and don’t view public school as free daycare. Admittedly, there are slackers who fail in their parenting and their children suffer making education difficult for their teachers and fellow classmates. It is inaccurate to lump all parents into the same category.

By Dawn

October 10, 2005 09:47 AM | Link to this

Believe me, public school is hardly free. Every week we’re hit up for more money for one reason or another. The school system used to provide the basic tools needed. Now the parents have to supply everything including pencils, paper and even tissues!

Hey, if the school day is lengthened, has anyone thought of what it will do to the evening rush hour with school busses on the road? It’s already unbearable. Can you imagine the anguish of a parent stuck in traffic who is trying to beat the school bus home? I think it’s a disaster waiting to happen.

By KABA

October 10, 2005 10:25 AM | Link to this

Dawn, IMHO the public school systems should spend our tax dollars on the teachers, school facilities, learning resources and equipment, science lab supplies, books, and toilet paper. And the students should supply their personal consumables like paper and notebooks, pencils, crayons, rulers, scissors, protractors, calculators, and facial tissues. If the school has a good PTA, then they often give the teachers money or provide for teacher supply closets.

Regarding your comment about the longer school day causing anguish for parents stuck in traffic trying to beat the school bus home, well, where are the parents now when school lets out in mid or late afternoon? Aren’t they still at work, or on their way home, or have made provisions for childcare?

By Concerned Teacher

October 10, 2005 11:39 AM | Link to this

Parents get a grip. These are your children, your responsibility, not the schools. If you did not want to be held accountable for them, then you should’ve taught twice about having them. The way some of you are complaining, I get the impression that you want schools to be in session all year around start at 6am and end at 6pm so you would not have to deal with them at all and let the schools raise them for you. Education is a privilege not a right, check the constitution. The state does not even have provide your child with an education and if they did that then what would you do?

By My Opinion

October 10, 2005 01:24 PM | Link to this

Wow – lots of opinions here! So I’ll throw mine in the mix – they are kids not adults. Compared to several other countries, they aren’t doing very well academically. If children aren’t doing well going 180 days, how will they do any better going fewer days for longer periods of time? Some countries go year round. I really like the thought of testing them at some mid point to see what field he/she should steer. I have an eighth grader that is already counting the time till the end of high school and another one that will do very well in college. Different people need different tools to help them achieve their own personal bests.

Before my kids were old enough to go to school, I had to provide day care them. Thankfully, they are now old enough to go home by themselves. They have a list of chores to complete everyday of the week. It is after all, their home too, plus, it keeps them out of trouble and teaches them responsibility.

When they were small, I also spanked them when they needed it – I didn’t beat them, they got spankings. They are not behavior problems for their teachers or anyone else now. They say yes ma’me and no sir. We also say the blessing every night before dinner. I truly believe school spankings would solve a whole lot of problems in our society. (Parents present at the time of spanking of course.) But to have an authority figure paddle your rear-end in front of your parents, knowing that they are backing the school would say so much! But some of you just insist on “talking� to your children – your children are monsters that no one wants to be around.

By M2C

October 10, 2005 01:28 PM | Link to this

It’s not the school system that needs changing, it’s the parenting system. Teach your kids values, morals, respect, accountability, and responsibility at home and it will carry over to school then and only then will education in the school system be effective. I doesn’t matter how many days a week or hours a day they are in school, as a parent you get out of you child what you put into your child. Teach them by example, if you can’t follow, you will never lead.

By shocked

October 11, 2005 10:42 AM | Link to this

i am a divorced mom of 3 kids, i care about my kids’ education and and i raise my kids to the best of my abilities. i don’t use school as a daycare system, they are in school to get an education to help them become productive members of society. i work during the day while they are in school and a four day work week will not fly with me because if i don’t work i cannot provide the necessities that we need to survive like shelter, food, clothes…not only would a four day school week not work for me, what about the children? do you honestly think making their school day longer will be a plus? i think not, they will not keep their minds focused on school work and you will have some behavior problems as a result of being locked up all day with no outlet like recess to let them have a breather during the day..i’m not sure about other counties, but dekalb county hasn’t had recess for these kids in years…