Get Schooled

By Don

September 22, 2005 11:10 AM | Link to this

Is it the kids dont have textbooks or the parents dont see them? You would be surprised the reasons for kids not bringing their books home to study or do homework. If the schools aren’t supplying them that’s a real cause for concern. How the teachers can come up with a legitimate grade for students without issueing them a reference (textbooks) is beyond me.

By Jake

September 22, 2005 11:46 AM | Link to this

Should textbooks provided by the school include the entire reading list for an AP English class? I’ve been to Barnes & Noble twice and it’s only September.

By Robert

September 22, 2005 12:24 PM | Link to this

Some of the teachers at my school held back assigning textbooks. Why? Well….

First, our school made AYP and tons of students from other schools flooded our school and we just didn’t have enough to go around.

Second, due to the above and other reasons (New Orleans students for example), we have had a steady flow of late-comers. Even though we are in the 6th week of the semester, there are still “new” students that may have “forgotten” that school started.

Third, our administration is still juggling the students around trying to balance the class sizes. Little Susie might have been bounced from one class to another to another all in the effort by the administration to reduce the average class size for the school.

Why is the second and third reason important regarding textbooks? Because individual teachers are held accountable for the textbooks assigned to students in their room. That little Susie may have started in your class and then she moved to another teacher without you knowing until she is gone. And, little Susie took YOUR book with her. You would have to track down little Susie and get that book from her (yes, it is YOUR responsibility). Many teachers will simply with hold assigning textbooks for this reason, and I don’t blame them!

By Leia

September 22, 2005 12:30 PM | Link to this

Our school is piloting textbooks, so the purchases were made for one class set of textbooks, using the projected number of students from last year. As Robert has said, now we have kids from New Orleans coming into our system, and we don’t have enough books to go around. We also have students from New York, New Jersey and New Mexico whose parents didn’t realize that school opened over a month ago - and they have no books either!

Most of these latter mentioned kids wouldn’t take a book home anyway!

By Laura

September 22, 2005 12:59 PM | Link to this

Newton County doesn’t have textbooks for everyone. My neighbor bought a high school math text for home because the school’s textbooks had to stay in the classroom for every class to use. My 8th grader’s accelerated science class is using copies of the book on CD because of the shift in state science curriculum. Both 8th graders and 6th graders are learning physical science this year. The 6th graders get the texts.

By Ernest

September 22, 2005 01:05 PM | Link to this

My oldest is in a DeKalb HS which is on Block scheduling. He has books for all four classes and commented he likes that because of the weight of the books (doesn’t have to carry the normal 6). Like Robert, I’m concerned about the ‘class size’ balancing that is still going on. We are 1/3 through the semester so one would think these issues would have been addressed, aside from newcomers still coming in.

My child in ES got a Spanish book this year. In years past, children used workbooks and shared books that remained in the classroom. They have their books for the core subjects.

FWIW, I know school systems have made great strides with ‘book accountability’ these past few years. In years past, many wrote off lost/stolen books as losses but I’m noticing they request payment if the child does not have it at year end. Is it true some withhold HS diplomas for unsettled book debts?

By GWTMOM

September 22, 2005 01:13 PM | Link to this

My child’s Probe Science class was given a web-site to go to for an online textbook instead of an actual book (not enough books to go around). This would work well, if I didn’t have two other kids that need the computer for homework. There’s no index on the website, so we are constantly paging through the pages of the chapters looking for vocabulary words. What a pain!

By SWC

September 22, 2005 01:17 PM | Link to this

Laura is right - there is a shortage of books due to the curriculum changes initiated this year. Douglas County is short of science textbooks but offered a CD version to be used voluntarily by families who have reliable computers.

LEIA & ROBERT - Nobody forgot that school started! Schools start too early in Georgia (as early as 7/31). The vast majority of schools in the US do not start until late August or after Labor Day. This is a problem that Georgia created.

By Marcia

September 22, 2005 01:26 PM | Link to this

Leia, “Most of these latter mentioned students wouldn’t take a book home anyway!” - That is a mighty presumptuous statement. If you are a teacher, I hope that your opinions aren’t so rudely addressed to your students.

Back to the question. My 5th grade son can not bring any books home. It hasn’t been a problem since he’s a math wiz, but he was stumped last night and I had to write his teacher a note this morning asking if he could bring the book home as a reference guide. I don’t have a problem purchasing one if it’s a set in stone rule. Education is in a sad state when children aren’t allowed to bring their textbooks home.

By Teacher

September 22, 2005 01:26 PM | Link to this

I’m a high school English teacher and don’t issue textbooks for several reasons. For one, we read a lot of novels, so we don’t even use our textbooks that often. Two, when I’ve issued them in previous years probably half to a quarter of the students lose them then owe school somewhere close to $80. Three, the trend in education right now is away from textbooks, anyway…

By SWC

September 22, 2005 01:37 PM | Link to this

Marcia - Thanks for your comment - Leia seems to have some preconceived notions about heathens who come here from out of state. Teacher - High School English is not the same thing as math, or science, or “Social science” (the latest fad term for “Social studies”, formerly known as “History”). Reading a novel is not the same thing as learning algebra. What do you mean when you say that “The trend in education right now is to move away from textbooks anyway”. Says who? For what subjects? I get nervous when I hear about yet another “trend” in education.

By HStchr

September 22, 2005 01:42 PM | Link to this

Marcia—there are probably several reasons why your child can’t bring a book home. The most likely is that with swelling enrollments, many schools are short textbooks and it takes time for the system to order more. I’ve seen this happen many times in the metro area. Also, there are many, many kids who simply leave books all over the place and then refuse to pay for them. Most schools have had to try to deal with this issue as budgets in recent years don’t allow for replacing books. We’re all running on lean budgets these days. As to Leia’s comment, many high or middle school students simply don’t do homework or they copy it. You’d be surprised how many never take a book home. This year in my school we adopted new social studies books and most of them didn’t arrive until AFTER school started. We’re still waiting for the balance of our books to get here, so we only have class sets of many of them. It’s unfortunate, but we’re dealing with it the best we can. Books, like most things, have become incredibly expensive. With budget restraints being what they are, we have to treat our books like they are made of gold. Many students simply don’t value the resources they have and mistreat the books or lose them. I know that is disturbing to you as a parent of a very responsible child, but realize your child is in the minority these days.

By Jane A.

September 22, 2005 02:14 PM | Link to this

We (a DeKalb County High School) only recently got books because of an unexpected influx of “No Child Left Behind” transfer students. It’s no big deal — the teachers just provided photocopies of the relevent sections and/or the book on CD ROM.

By the way, I drop a child off at a transfer point where there are about 40 busses every morning. I’d estimate that about 30% of the High School students don’t carry any books to school on a given day…

By Leia

September 22, 2005 02:25 PM | Link to this

FYI - I am from “out of state” as well, but before I moved here I found out when school started. Anyway - yes, I am a teacher and no I would never make the comments to my students that are made here on an adult blog! Additionally - 99 per cent of the students that we are getting now are the discipline problems from other states who have been sent “down South” to live with Daddy, Grandma, etc. and would not and will not take home a book anyway! Yes, I said it again.

By Zoe

September 22, 2005 02:28 PM | Link to this

Schools do issue books, maybe students are just not taking them home.I just walked the halls of my high school and picked up 10 different textbooks left there by students. Unfortunately, for reasons named above (transfer students due to AYP or evacuees from other states and class balancing) issuing textbooks is sometimes put on hold. This year, we were asked not to issue books until we could ensure every child would receive a book. Our school has received 200 transfre students due to AYP and at least 50 more due to Hurricane Katrina. We waited for weeks for the county to move books from one school to another. Also, textbooks cost around $60 new and a student is usually issued at least 4 books depending on his or her schedule. That is about $240 a student. Last year, our school wrote off approximately 15% of the issued textbooks. This was due to both damage and loss. These books have to be replaced. If we have to replace hundreds of textbooks each year because student don’t take care of or keep track of their books, it runs into the thousands of dollars. Sometimes we only need the book for one more year because the textbook is changing the next year. This means spending thousands of dollars on textbooks that will only be used for one year rather than multiple years. To help stop the problem of lost and damaged books we now have a policy; if a child loses a book for a particular subject (eq math) that child can not receive a new math book until the first book is paid for!

By A Parent

September 22, 2005 03:01 PM | Link to this

Ernest I just wanted to answer your question about the witholding of the diploma. It’s true. I grew up in New York and they would not give my brother his diploma until he returned the text book and then he lost it my mother paid for it and then they said that he never paid for it, so they wouldn’t give him his diploma until years later. So parents hold on to your books or receipts!!!

By SWC

September 22, 2005 03:03 PM | Link to this

Leia - First of all, families can’t always move based on when school opens. When job changes occur, families may have to move in the middle of the year. Now since you are a teacher, it would make sense that you would be here when school started! The private sector does not operate on a school calendar.

By A Parent

September 22, 2005 03:07 PM | Link to this

Ernest this is in reference to your question about them holding on to your diploma until you pay for a book. It’s true. I grew up in New York and when it was time with for my brother to graduate they said that he owed a textbook that he didn’t have so my mother paid for it earlier in the year. Later on they need the book to give him his diploma of course he didn’t have it anymore, but my mother didn’t keep her receipt and they wouldn’t give him his diploma until years later. So parents keep your childs receipt or Books!!!

By MrLiberty

September 22, 2005 03:09 PM | Link to this

Boy, reading these posts is like reading comments from people living in the former Soviet Union - no bread, no meat, long lines, shortages everywhere.

Central planning doesn’t work. The Soviet Union proved it, and now we are learning it ourselves by allowing this socialist system to be the primary choice for our children’s education.

At $6000 to $7000 or more per student, there should be plenty of money for books, but of course most is wasted on bureaucracy and administration (and the fact that school boards keep jumping on the latest fads in teaching so books cannot be reused).

To Jake, why is it such a problem to have to go to Barnes and Noble to buy books? There was once a time in our culture where owning books was a sign of culture. Be thankful your kid can read. And what about Chapter 11 if cost is an issue. Just think about all of the folks in our country without kids who are having to pay thousands each just to educate your kids. My god, isn’t your kid’s education worth anything??

Frankly we should all applaud the presence of text ooks on the internet. Maybe it will convince more folks to homeschool and then hopefully the government system will just wither and die from lack of interest.

Those of you who think that such a comment is un-american should remember that this country did not have any government run schools until the early 1800’s, and our system is based on the Prussian (German) model. Much like the Prussian system, its purpose was not to educate so much as indoctrinate “good citizens” and to undermine the culture of the waves of Catholic Irish and Italian immigrants that were flowing into this country. If supporting that kind of system is “american”, then this country sure has changed. I always thought that supporting capitalism and the free market was “american.”

By ElementaryMyDarling

September 22, 2005 04:18 PM | Link to this

I am a third grade teacher, and I rarely send textbooks home with my students for a couple reasons. First, most textbooks are not fully aligned with Georgia state curriculum. Therefore, the majority of my lessons are self, grade-level, or county generated to adapt to the state performace standards and, subsequently, the CRCT. I believe our elementary textbooks (especially in Science and Social Studies) are only to supplement enagaging, hands-on lessons, not to be used as the main focus of the lesson. Also, young children should not carry these heavy books back and forth in their backpacks. It’s a major feat just to get them to tighten the shoulder straps and wear them correctly.

By Jake

September 22, 2005 04:24 PM | Link to this

MrLiberty - Obviously, and as you point out, I would prefer my tax dollars go for books instead of “the wastes of bureaucracy”. When I was in high school, studying by candlelight, books were financed with tax dollars, as were band uniforms, cheerleading, and tons of things that I pay extra for now. Thanks god for the home and private schooled so at least there are a few books provided by the school. But I am delighted with your continued success in turning every topic into a discussion on the relative merits of the true American private school system vs. the Soviet Union/Prussian/German Central Planning/socialist government system we currently have in place. You are beginning to sway me.

By Lee

September 23, 2005 08:38 AM | Link to this

Speaking of textbooks, have any of you parents out there looked through them lately?

Years ago, a elementary school reader had names such as Dick, Jane, Spot, etc, etc. Nowadays, they have gone “multicultural” with names that even I can’t pronounce. It’s not that little Johnny can’t read, he just doesn’t speak Swahili.

Hey publishers, stick to the basics. Our kids will get a belly full of multiculturism and diversity when they grow up and their employer lays them off to ship their jobs to Pakistan.

Oh yeah, while you’re at it, quit re-writing history.

By Manny

September 23, 2005 09:03 AM | Link to this

Lee - when is the last time you’ve met anybody named Dick, Jane or Spot? Grow up! You have issues that have nothing to do with textbooks, and we all now know what they are! And as far as “re-writing” history; they are now just writing it accurately.

By Marcia

September 23, 2005 09:19 AM | Link to this

Last night my son’s teacher sent me a note saying that she assigned the wrong page. They have yet to cover the pages that she assigned. No biggie.

Years ago, when I was growing up in Virginia if you didn’t return a textbook or pay for it, you couldn’t register for classes or if you were a senior they would hold your diploma.

By Confused Parent

September 23, 2005 09:37 AM | Link to this

So few people (including teachers) really know what is going on in school districts outside their communitity (and even then may not know about different grade levels at their own school) that it seems the to a certain degree everyone’s opinion is correct when restricted to their own school.

Thus, it might be better if people would stop presuming to know about what’s going on in someone else’s district and restrict themselves to just sharing their personal experiences.

As for my son’s school (grade 5), the textbooks are primarily used for in-class use (math being the notable exception). Homework is in the form of handouts and notes they’ve taken in class. The expectation is that when students need “reference” materials outside of class, they should use the internet. There’s not been a lot of homework that really needs a textbook yet, since homework primarily focuses (IMO correctly) on reading, writing, and math - a home dictionary is a must and helps out with spelling and vocabulary homework and the handout from in class with instructions on an arithmetic assignment is usually detailed enough to help with homework.

My wife is a high school science teacher and she has assigned books but doesn’t use them much except as a repository for homework questions. With the volunteer work I see at her school and the tutoring I’ve done in the past, I do know the Algebra (I, II) books get used mighty well. Still, students complain about the history books which talk about the 1960s as current events.

By high school teacher

September 23, 2005 10:15 AM | Link to this

Confused Parent, I understand your confusion. Each school system is different. You mention that your district encourages Internet use. In my disctrict, many students don’t even have computers at home, so that option would not work.

SWC, the teacher who mentioned textbooks not being the “trend” was right, unfortunately. In the high tech/Crack baby/MTV generation schools, teachers are encouraged to create lessons that are engaging and that students can relate to. Working out of a textbook is too boring, and the students don’t have a chance to use their “multiple intelligences” to produce work (according to some education philosophers).

I also teach English, and I don’t use my textbook every day, but I don’t see how a math teacher can function without one. Maybe a compromise can be reached: use class sets for some courses, and issue books for others. I think all school systems should give students the option to purchase their own books. The school will still provide copies to all students, but then students would not have to lug their books to and from home. And, if you have children close enough in age who are in the “textbook cycle”(textbook adoptions are every seven years), you can allow the younger child to use the books after his siblings have completed that course.

By HSTeach

September 23, 2005 10:44 AM | Link to this

Here’s a question for everyone: Does your school charge book fines for books that are damaged or lost? Do they continue to issue books to students who damage/lose textbooks w/o paying for them? Just wondering, it was a practice at my school for a while, until we decided that it was incredibly counter productive to keep books from kids…how intuitive, huh….. on the other hand, most kids nowadays, at least at my school, treat their books like trash….b/c they know they don’t have to pay for them….ooohhh they get their report cards held…but legally a school can’t hold a student’s transcript for a book fine….

By DB

September 23, 2005 11:58 AM | Link to this

I think kids should pay for textbooks up front and then get their money back when they hand them in without damage. And the responsibility for tracking textbooks would be much easier and effective. The schools never get the money from the kids that damage them anyway. It’s just another example of responsibility being shifted away from parents and students. Also, if you’re going to play the poverty card, don’t bother. If there’s one thing in life people should prioritize, it’s education. However, let those that truly can’t afford it fill out an application form asking to get the fee waived. And they’ll get back their money anyway as long as their kid takes care of the book. Money is just the collateral in this way. This will never happen because the “enablers” will complain.

By DB

September 23, 2005 11:59 AM | Link to this

All the “coddling” laws wouldn’t allow this, for it would actually promote responsibility.

By DB

September 23, 2005 12:05 PM | Link to this

Our tax dollars go to books so more than half the students can trash them never to pay fines or money for the books. If there’s one waste of taxpayers’ money that could be minimized, that’s it.

By DB

September 23, 2005 12:07 PM | Link to this

All students have the option to purchase their own books; it’s called Barnes and Noble, Amazon.com, or your local bookstore.

By Charlie

September 27, 2005 10:07 AM | Link to this

I agree with DB. I wonder how many students are clever enough to go onto Amazon.com and buy the teacher’s edition. It would help them a lot, and they wouldn’t HAVE to cheat with it, but it would sure help studying to have the answers to all the practice problems, etc…sometimes, the teacher’s edition is cheaper than the student edition (although you couldn’t exactly use it at school without raising some eyebrows or getting in trouble.)