Get Schooled

By Dan

September 15, 2005 08:57 AM | Link to this

They should be booted and the parents fined, otherwise it doesn’t hurt to try. Just another good reason for vouchers

By Karen Armsby

September 15, 2005 09:03 AM | Link to this

Cheating is composed of lying and stealing something one is not entitled to. Should parents who lie to school officials and steal school services for their children be punished? Yes, and they should be arrested and charged according to the value of the services they have stolen.

If the school system declines to have them arrested and charged, and offers them the option to pay tuition, then it is up to the school board to vote on and approve that option, and publish that fact to the taxpaying supporters of the school system.

This question is just a variation of the previous question about illegals who are stealing the services of our country to raise their families and educate their children in colleges and universities run mostly by taxpayer funds.

People must realize that there is no government money, that it is your money and my money paying for the cheaters. Stand up for your hard earned paycheck and demand that the elected officials abide by the laws and only spend your money according to the law, and quit allowing illegals and cheaters to steal your money.

Cheating parents raise children who think cheating is OK. Lying and stealing to get what you want is not OK.

By old teacher

September 15, 2005 09:16 AM | Link to this

Parents who lie about the address of their families in order to cheat the citizens of a school district should be fined and charged with stealing services. They should not be allowed to pay tuition so that their kids will be allowed to play sports. Let them suffer too. Not fair, you say. I say to my kids, “Life’s not fair, get over it.”

By LaTeekey

September 15, 2005 09:17 AM | Link to this

I do not think that a parent who is seeking to find the best possible education for there child should be punished. The problem should be addressed with the school system in which the parents are running from. We all pay taxes some more than others but non the less we all pay them. Trying to get my child the best education possible should not be a crime.

By Hannah

September 15, 2005 09:30 AM | Link to this

There are reasons why there are “good” schools and “bad” schools. If you cannot afford to live in a “good” school district, why do you think that you should be able to benefit from the parental support, the community support and the excellent teachers in the “good” school?

Perhaps you should spend your time trying to make your neighborhood school a “good” school. Spend some time volunteering at your school, helping beautify your campus and supporting the teachers at your school. This is a much better option than lying about your address and teaching your children that deception is always a viable option as long as you get want you want.

By Karen Armsby

September 15, 2005 09:33 AM | Link to this

LaTeekey, The property taxes you pay in one school district only support the schools in that district. Those taxes do not support the schools in another school district. It’s simple, move into the district served by the better schools, your property taxes will support those schools, and you will be entitled to enroll your children in the schools in that district.

If you cheat, then you are lying and stealing, and that is a horrible example to set for your children. Parents are their children first teachers, and when you teach them that cheating, i.e. lying and stealing, is OK, then you are not giving them the best education.

By Leia

September 15, 2005 09:47 AM | Link to this

Do you realize that when you lie about your address, you are forcing your children to lie also? And 9 times out of 10, we as teachers know within a few days who doesn’t belong there!

Your kids are the ones still at school 2 and 3 hours after school has dismissed for the day. Your kids are the ones getting in trouble while waiting for their rides to come pick them up and take them home. Your kids are also the ones who will say “I don’t care about this school anyway. This isn’t my school!”

Your kids are the ones who try to get into enough trouble so that they can be expelled and forced to go back to their home school where all of their friends are.

By HStchr

September 15, 2005 09:47 AM | Link to this

I taught for a long time in a county with good schools and bad schools. Parents often, rather than move, would find ways to show residence in the school district I taught in in order to avoid the “bad schools”. While I understand their reasons, they lied-plain and simple. Often, the problems associated with bad neighborhood/ school followed the cheating families to the “good schools”. I don’t blame parents for wanting the best for their children, but either move or get in the school and board meetings and fight for changes to your local schools. Nothing changes unless you identify the problems and push for changes. With NCLB all schools will have to address issues affecting school performance.

By Nick

September 15, 2005 09:50 AM | Link to this

As an elementary school teacher, I can’t blame parents for wanting their children to be in the best schools possible. However, I feel that public school systems should be doing more to level the playing field so that cheating to get students into better schools won’t have to happen. I always felt that school tax dollars should be spread out evenly in a district so that schools have as close to equal of everything as possible.

By Ernest

September 15, 2005 10:05 AM | Link to this

Nick:

For the most part, ‘School tax dollars’ ARE evenly distributed in a district. In fact, many lower performing schools get more tax dollars when you factor in free/reduced lunch and Title one programs. Discretionary dollars, i.e. parent contributions, and for that matter, parental involvement, is not evenly distributed.

In April 2004, USA Today compared two schools and their PTA budgets in DeKalb County on their front page. Needless to say, the differences were staggering. Who on this blog will suggest we should combine all PTA monies raised, put then in a single pot, then distribute them based on need? Who would do the same for the involved parents and assign them to schools based on need? When we attempt to ‘legislate’ what people do with their money and time is when we will REALLY have problems.

By Becca

September 15, 2005 10:29 AM | Link to this

If we had any decent schools in our public school system this would be urgent, and parents would want their children in the better schools and who could blame them? If you are forced to use the public school system then you should be able to choose which awful place to send your child.

By Karen Armsby

September 15, 2005 10:32 AM | Link to this

Thank you Ernest for the truth! It has been my experience in the Gwinnett County Public School System, that each school opens and is equipped equally. I had 3 kids go K-12 through Gwinnett schools over a twenty year period.

We equipped our schools through the efforts of supportive parents who volunteered through the PTA, and by getting business partnerships, writing grants, runnning booster clubs, and organizing fundraising events and sales. When you walk into a school that seems to have it all, well you can thank the PARENYS who work with the school to provide a better learning environment and more resources. We parents are the ones who paid to set up a clinic, pay a nurse and stock the clinic with supplies. We parents are the ones who put a composite rubber floor on the bare concrete gym floor provided by the county, and a new surface on the high school track. We parents are the ones who run book sales to get more books for the libraries, gym and P.E. equipment, pay for extra parapros, stock teacher supply closets, give teachers stipends for supplies, bring in cultural arts events, sponsor field trips, and many other ‘extras’ not paid for by the school system.

In short, PARENTS make the difference in the schools, both monetarily and through their parenting. Good parenting produces well behaved children who have good attendance records, and good grades. Poor parenting produces children that are absent, inattentive, unruly, uncooperative, and falling behind or failing.

If your child is in a failing environment, and you don’t work for change or can’t change it, then you need to move to a school where you can participate with other like minded parents who work with their children and support the school through volunteering or financial support to make the learning environment better.

By Hannah

September 15, 2005 10:39 AM | Link to this

Karen - Amen! You are absolutely on point with your comments. Parental involvement, whether it be financial or otherwise, determines what makes a good school and good students.

Deadbeat parents want us to do what they should be doing at home, and now, they even want the benefit of all the hard work our parents and our communities provide!

By HStchr

September 15, 2005 10:40 AM | Link to this

Becca—come teach in any public school in this state for ONE WEEK and I guarantee you will not have the same opinion. Not that you’re not entitled to think what you wish, but don’t make blanket statements that cannot be backed up. There are SOME bad schools, most often tagged that way because the communities they serve are hotbeds of crime, violence, and lack of education. There are also schools that set the standards and prove that public education is doing the job. Come teach with us and you’ll see.

By Karen Armsby

September 15, 2005 10:40 AM | Link to this

Becca, You are wrong! We have many excellent public schools in Georgia. The curriculum is excellent and challenging and all it takes is participation and work. My kids have done very well with their public school education; the first graduated with high honor from Georgia Tech and is in grad school at Rice in architecture, the second is a junior majoring in mechanical engineering at Tech, and the third is at UGA pursuing an accounting degree. They have all kept a “B” average and therefore kept their HOPE scholarships, too.

By Alytisha

September 15, 2005 11:23 AM | Link to this

I don’t think its right b/c they shouldn’t cheated and god don’t like liers any way i wouldn’t help them.

By Lucinda

September 15, 2005 11:41 AM | Link to this

Parents make all the difference. What isn’t important at home is not important at school. Children who don’t respect parents don’t respect teachers. Children who watch a lot of tv instead of reading or doing other productive things learn violence.

So I don’t blame anyone trying to get their children into a better school environment — which usually means a more expensive neighborhood.

And that’s the problem.

With a few exceptions, you have to have money to get a really good education. So that is why people lie to get into Decatur City Schools.

And that is wrong. “That” meaning both the lie and the inequity that causes it.

BUT, you don’t fix a bigger social issue by stealing services.

Prosecute those parents for theft.

By HStchr

September 15, 2005 11:46 AM | Link to this

Karen—even with HOPE, aren’t you just about broke with three in higher education??—WOW that is something to be proud of. Your kids prove what has been said so many times about parental involvement in childrens’ lives and schools. Seems very simple, but so hard for so many to understand.

By Lucind

September 15, 2005 11:51 AM | Link to this

Karen Armsby you are right on the money regarding parenting skills at home being the foundation for an excellent school.

BUT, many parents don’t have the money and time to do all the things your school can do. If you make $35K per year, there just isn’t much extra money to donate to the school. If you work an hourly wage job, you can’t just take off and go volunteer.

There is a great economic disparity that makes glib remarks like ‘move to a better school district’ ridiculous. It takes money to do things like that, folks!!

And, by the way, lest anybody think I’m condoning stealing, those parents stealing services in Decatur City Schools should be criminally prosecuted.

By MamaS

September 15, 2005 12:30 PM | Link to this

When Henry County tried to take parents to court for lying about residency the grand jury refused to indict them. Basically they said it was wrong but not a crime and getting the kid booted out was punishment enough. The school where I teach is so overcrowded that we have a dozen trailers and a lunch period of eleven minutes. We know there are students who don’t live in our county! Elementary students aren’t as good about remembering to lie. When they tell me they can see Stone Mountain from their front yards, they don’t realize that they are giving me information that they should not. I don’t blame the kids. They did not make the decision to lie. But it is frustrating to see so many parents cheat to get their kids into our school because we are good. The extra kids take away budget money and class time. Next testing period we won’t be as good, and the parents will move their kids to another school!

By Karen Armsby

September 15, 2005 12:36 PM | Link to this

Lucinda, You presume wrong to say that my comments were ‘glib.’ Here’s how Merriam Webster defines glib.

1 a : marked by ease and informality : NONCHALANT b : showing little forethought or preparation : OFFHAND c : lacking depth and substance : SUPERFICIAL 2 archaic : SMOOTH, SLIPPERY 3 : marked by ease and fluency in speaking or writing often to the point of being insincere or deceitful

I am anything but glib. I am very serious about what it takes to provide resources in a school. And your income disparity, rich neighborhood argument holds no weight with me. When my 3 kids were little and I was a stay at home mom, and our family income was under $40K a year, our elementary school had over 50% of the kids on free and reduced lunches, and the area population was generally low to middle income. But even the poorest parents gave their time and talents after work, volunteering during evenings and on weekends to accomplish our fundraising goals to make our schools a better learning environment for all. We didn’t complain, or wait for others to do it for us. We got organized, rolled up our sleeves and worked at it.

Your answer was the pat answer for those that think that only more money will get the job done. A community of volunteers, rich or poor, is what gets things done.

By Lilburn Parent

September 15, 2005 01:09 PM | Link to this

@ Lucind:

“BUT, many parents don’t have the money and time to do all the things your school can do. If you make $35K per year, there just isn’t much extra money to donate to the school. If you work an hourly wage job, you can’t just take off and go volunteer.”

* There are many things hourly wage employees can do for the school during non-working hours! You tell the committee chair… when YOU are available. Offer the time you have, it may just take a couple of hours a month. *

“There is a great economic disparity that makes glib remarks like ‘move to a better school district’ ridiculous. It takes money to do things like that, folks!!”

* People save and sacrifice for what they think is important. I did a great deal of this (chairing PTA committees, assisting with fundraising, working as a Boy Scout leader, teaching my child, and MOST importantly parenting) as a SINGLE parent. *

My drive to do it all, was my child!

It is interesting that in the previous post… there were a million hard luck stories. The posters pretty much felt due to poor choices, hard luck, etc. they were ENTITLED to lie and cheat their way into better performing schools.

By Karen Armsby

September 15, 2005 01:14 PM | Link to this

Lucinda, My comments were very serious, and not glib as you said. Here’s how Merriam Webster defines glib:

1 a : marked by ease and informality : NONCHALANT b : showing little forethought or preparation : OFFHAND c : lacking depth and substance : SUPERFICIAL 2 archaic : SMOOTH, SLIPPERY 3 : marked by ease and fluency in speaking or writing often to the point of being insincere or deceitful

I speak seriously from experience, and not from a rich neighborhood! And your income disparity argument holds no weight with me. When my 3 kids were small, our family income was less than $40K and I worked part-time and went to school. Our elementary school had over 50% of its students on free and reduced lunches, and the area was a low to middle income population. What made the difference is that many good parents came together, no matter what their income or lack of, and worked together to raise funds to provide a better learning environment for all of our kids. After work, in the evenings, and on weekends, we just rolled up our sleeves and organized fundraisers, wrote for grant money, signed up business partners, ran carnivals, fun runs, and candy sales, whatever we needed to do to raise the funds.

We didn’t wait for someone else to provide for us, we got organized and did it for ourselves. It’s called community cooperation, and it works at every income level.

By James McCoy

September 15, 2005 01:20 PM | Link to this

So when are the excuses going to stop being made for the parents who fail their children? I grew up dirt poor living in a two bedroom apartment in a lower income area. But we got love and direction dispite our economic situation. If a parent loves their child they will do anything too see that that child got the best. And by the way there is no such thing as a bad school!

By Me

September 15, 2005 01:36 PM | Link to this

Karen,

Why do you believe GA has an excellent and challenging curriculum? Coming from another state, I think GA’s curriculum standards are low, and their challenge factor significantly subpar. Most standardized testing points out the same failures. I believe this cheating is largely a side effect of the curriculum and administration of GA schools. Hell, you don’t see something wrong with defining “high acheiver” as 75% percentile?! And, teaching evolution is wrong? Even the local GA college science professors spoke out on that one.

There should be open enrollment for all schools within a county. Your taxes are paid to the county for the benefit of all the schools. You should have the option to attend those schools, not just your neighborhood one. The schools should compete with one another to keep their enrollments and their headcounts. If you want to transfer across county lines, you should pay fees.

James,

There are such things as bad schools, they’re usually in bad communities. The corner store might be bad, too. A parent or two can’t affect much outside of their child and their child’s class. A gaggle of parents, though, can have a much greater impact. But, still, they probably won’t be able to fix the whole community. And, some school administrators have serious issues and shouldn’t be anywhere near children. When the admins are that bad, I consider the school bad until the problem can be worked out. Unfortunately, it’s very hard to get an admin overturned mid-year.

By A happy Decatur parent

September 15, 2005 01:43 PM | Link to this

For those who do not know, the City of Decatur School System is not part of the DeKalb County School System. We are very small so there is not really a big difference in the various schools in Decatur. Although there is a racial divide in Decatur, the school board and parents have worked hard to try and equalize the playing field for all Decatur students. There is one school for kids 0-4…students and teachers alike use this service. If you’re a pregnant teenager, you don’t have to drop out or trust your child to less than perfect childcare. There are 3 Elementary Schools K-4. One 5th/6th Academy, one Middle School and one High School. I moved to Decatur 15 years ago because I wanted my children to have a quality education in a diverse environment. I have found that, although no system is perfect,Decatur has meet the needs of my children and I believe my kids will do very well in their lives after they graduate. BUT, it is tough to live in Decatur if your income is less than $50,000 a year. When living inside the perimeter became popular, many chose Decatur and the housing prices have tripled in the last 15 years. Unfortunately,a lot of people who owned rental houses in Decatur sold their rentals to reap the profits of a booming market. That meant a loss of Section 8 housing and a very long waiting list for the Public Housing. It’s easy to say “move” to a better neighborhood, but for parents earning minimum wage, there are not many housing options in Decatur. Almost all Decatur parents, regardless of race, creed, color or sexual orientation are strong supporters of the City Schools. People do what they can; for some people,it’s money they give, for others, it’s time. We have dedicated teachers in Decatur, great kids and strong community support. Like the fictional city of “Woebegone” all the children are “above average”. My school taxes are really high, but they are worth every penny I pay. As for the “cheaters”…if there’s room and they can get help paying tuition, I say, let them. There but for the grace of G-d go I.

By HStchr

September 15, 2005 01:44 PM | Link to this

this is entirely anecdotal support Karen A, but it proves your point. When my grandfather heard a need for cabinets and bookcases in the local elementary school, even though all his kids were basically grown, he got in his shop and built some. He was a poor dirt farmer and scavenged the lumber, but he did it to help out and pay back some of the folks who had helped educate his children. I, like many parents of young children, don’t have much money. I can’t buy from all the fundraisers going around, but I can give my time and energy. I make things for special class projects and support the teachers by encouraging them and volunteering what little time I have. My kids see this and one of my sons comes into my high school in the afternoon and helps the custodians clean classrooms a few times a week. He does it because we’ve raised him to help when he sees a need. Lead by example and show your kids how to make the best of what they have, and we wouldn’t have so many “bad” schools. I don’t know why that’s so hard for some folks to grasp. Worked for you, works for me and mine, and requires little more than time from a few to make things better.

By James McCoy

September 15, 2005 01:50 PM | Link to this

ME,I get the point you are making about”bad schools”parents make the school,if you have a bad principal then parents no matter how small their pocketbook can effect change. Some people have brought into the lie that poor folk can’t effect change and so that’s what they get in their schools nothing. I’m not rich with money but oh how I raise hell at City Council and School Board Meeting in my town. When members of the board of education see my name on the agenda they run and hide!

By Me

September 15, 2005 01:55 PM | Link to this

you know, honestly, i see the bad schools as more of reflection of the community than anything else. i’m not talking about need for booksheles, or extra little help. i’m talking about out of control, dangerous, and disengaged children, families, and admins. that to me, is a “bad” school.

By Me

September 15, 2005 01:58 PM | Link to this

James, Yep, I agree. But, the problem with changes at that level.. it takes awhile to trickle down the kids. It’s not your kids that see the effect as much as future generations. That’s not necessarily a bad thing, I mean, but you do want your own children to benefit too!

By James McCoy

September 15, 2005 02:13 PM | Link to this

ME,I really do believe in the concept of “it takes a village to raise a child”,problem is in today’s world it’s all about me,me.(no pun intended) Witness the neighborhood school advocates and the rise of private and religious schools.

By HStchr

September 15, 2005 02:28 PM | Link to this

Me—-I used to teach in just the kind of school you’re talking about. That’s the same kind I call BAD…I could tell you stories if I had the time about being out of control and bad administrators. What was once an excellent school became a mockery.

By edmundo

September 15, 2005 02:34 PM | Link to this

As a tax paying Decatur citizen, the tuition sounds like a bargain. It would be cheaper to not live in the city (to avoid the taxes) and send your child to Decatur City Schools. In a recenct story regarding New Orleans students, Cathy Cox was quoted as saying the average annual cost of educating a single child is around $6,500. If Decatur Schools are better than most and the cost is greater than average then the tution should be more.

By old teacher

September 15, 2005 02:48 PM | Link to this

I think Lucinda is right on the money with her glib remark.

By HStchr

September 15, 2005 02:57 PM | Link to this

Of course, part of the problem is that schools are now mega-sized and serve a larger “community”, if that word even applies anymore. When there are 2000+ kids in a school from all over a geographical area, it’s easy for parents to feel like little fish in a big pond. I teach now in a school of 1000 and have my kids in schools in my county of about 500 or so. Much easier to get involved and affect change when you actually have a chance to meet and know the people who work with your kids. Their teachers even came to opening day of baseball season last year!! How often do you hear of that anymore?

By robert

September 15, 2005 03:09 PM | Link to this

I know Decatur is undefeated in football, but if those two kids are good players, they are needed when things get tough in the playoffs. as for the others, well who cares .

By Swangirl

September 15, 2005 03:52 PM | Link to this

My nieces live in Fayette County and I have seen with my own eyes Clayton parents dropping their kids off in Fayette subdivisions to catch the bus in the mornings.

I’m sorry but this is WRONG. It also sends a message to children that lying and cheating are what you have to do in life to get ahead.

If you don’t live in the school district you want your kids in, move into it. Wanting “the best” for your child means telling the truth.

By Decatur Momma

September 15, 2005 03:53 PM | Link to this

The City of Decatur is only 4.5 square miles. We use our (high) taxes from our tiny tax base to run a tiny but excellent public school system. We have 3 tiny k through 3 elementary schools, each have about 200 students (NOT 2000+, not anywhere as big as morningside, sarah smith or mary lin) and we also have a substantial “free and reduced lunch” population at our schools. We also have a fiercely devoted body of parents, neighbors, and local churches and businesses who find ways to contribute — time and talent is all many of us can afford but our schools get what we have.

I believe we spend more tax $ per child per year than any of the surrounding school systems, part of that goes to support the overhead but so much goes for excellence in instruction — things like spanish every day.

Many people would like to use our tiny school system. We cannot afford it. Like anything you have to pay for, our school officials are constantly reassessing how to scrimp and save to use resources most effectively. Every kid from out of our system represents a big chunk in reduced resources to use for the kids who are legitimately enrolled in our system… used on special needs (where I hear we need improvement) on mandatory pay raises, on library books, on staff training, on much needed construction…
The school board has been working on our illegal (criminal) enrollment problem for YEARS; it is not new. The parents who continue to cheat had plenty of notice and time to get their kids into other schools. I feel sorry for the kids being forced out, some of them have been friends, although I can’t recall seeing their parents at any events or ever seeing these families pitching in to help. The parents need to put their kids into the schools where they pay taxes, and spend their energy working on those schools rather than spending it driving their kids across town and dumping them out in my neighborhood every day.

By Robert

September 15, 2005 04:20 PM | Link to this

Cheating is wrong, period. End of discussion.

Vouchers are stupid, period. They solve nothing. End of discussion.

By kaa

September 15, 2005 04:28 PM | Link to this

A person living at a City of Decatur address pays city taxes. Why is it wrong for that person to choose somone to use their tax money to attend a City of Decatur school? The tax expemption age in the City is over 65 so just about every home owner in the city pays city taxes.

By kaa

September 15, 2005 04:31 PM | Link to this

A person living at a City of Decatur address pays city taxes. Why is it wrong for that person to choose somone to use their tax money to attend a City of Decatur school? The tax expemption age in the City is over 65 so just about every home owner in the city pays city taxes.

By Taxpayer

September 16, 2005 08:34 AM | Link to this

While we are on the subject of out-of-district kids attending schools illegally, I’d like to raise the issue of administrative transfers. These used to be reserved for the children of employees in a particular school, but over the years, just about anyone can get an administrative transfer to the school of his/her choice. My child’s school has kids attending from some excellent high schools. Why didn’t they stay there? I know that kids who are bullied or whose parents have had conflict with an administrator at a particular school can request a transfer, but so far, I have not heard that this is the case with most of these kids. The majority have transferred here, I’m told by administrators, to be near their friends! There is very little difference between obtaining a transfer dishonestly and attending a school illegally. I’ll reserve judgment until I see whether the parents of these kids are actually going to contribute time and energy to the school.

By Karam

September 16, 2005 08:59 AM | Link to this

Wow how mean and hateful some of you are. I work for IBM and my wife is a teacher. There is no way in hell that we could afford to live in the City of Decatur. Together we gross about 75,000 a year. Now with student loans, a 169,000 mortgage, two car notes and regular bills and expensives how can we just afford to move into a more expensive neighborhood in Decatur. I think that liying and cheating is indeed wrong, which is why there should be a voucher program in effect. Have some of you been to the schools in south fulton or the city of Atlanta, its an absolute trajesty and a majority of those children will never achieve much more success than those in there lower income communities. So if you happen to live even close to those impoverished areas your children have to attend those schools. That is in no way JUST or FAIR. Our education system needs to be revamped but until than the children who want to learn should have a choice. Quit beeing so selfish and show some concern for your fellow man or at least his children.

By Lucinda

September 16, 2005 09:37 AM | Link to this

Karam thank you.

Sorry folks, I’m just not buying the “roll up your sleeves” arguments. Yes, parents can volunteer in lots of ways, regardless of income.

BUT, what Karen said was “We parents are the ones who paid to set up a clinic, pay a nurse and stock the clinic with supplies. We parents are the ones who put a composite rubber floor on the bare concrete gym floor provided by the county, and a new surface on the high school track.”

Now, you tell me how to do all that without a wealthy community to fund it.

By HStchr

September 16, 2005 09:43 AM | Link to this

Karam— having grown up in S.Fulton myself, I can address why the schools are so bad. Even though S. Fulton has become a mecca for the nouveau riche looking for a quiet, affordable place to live close to Atlanta, the schools continue to have problems. With all the affluence, until parents and community leaders go in and demand better, nothing will change. Like you, I can’t afford to live in Decatur, but I can and do have the ability to go to my children’s schools and to board meetings to make my demands known. And you know what, things change when we do more than just complain. If the schools in an area aren’t measuring up, then we need to go to the board and keep making noise until they make changes. We’re not holding those with the power to make changes accountable anymore. It takes time, energy, and diligence. How do you think Decatur City Schools got the way they are? The parents back them and demand quality, and will vocally let the powers that be know if the system is failing. We need to stop whining and get busy. Call your board members, go to meetings, go to the school administration, and keep going until they listen. It may take a while, but changes occur and improvements happen when people demand it.

By edmundo

September 16, 2005 10:23 AM | Link to this

This has become a platform to discuss socio/economic topics; but, there are three parts to this subject.

Off topic comments:

There are many communities with reasonable housing costs and good schools. If someone doesn’t like thier situation they should do something. Options may include moving out or becoming active in the communtiy to make the change. Moving to more expensive communities is not the only answer.

It seems that many people want something to be given to them. The only thing you deserve is what you have earned. That is the lesson we should be teaching children.

By Karen Armsby

September 16, 2005 11:00 AM | Link to this

Lucinda, Please reread my post about how we volunteers accomplished our goals. If you think it happened overnight, it did not. I am talking about results obtained over 15 years of work by many volunteer parents working with the schools in our community. And as I said we are not a wealthy, rich or affluent community! We are solid middle and lower income, but with a strong commitment to improving our children’s education, both in the home and at school.

For example, each year the principal and teachers in elementary school would present our PTA with a wish list of things needed in the school, such as more books in the library, supplies in the teacher’s workworm, funding for special cultural arts programs during the year, sponsoring field trips, etc. Then our PTA board would sit down and draw up a budget and forecast how much money we could raise and what wish list items were possible to purchase that year, and some big ticket items (like the clinic, or the gym floor) were on a multi-year plan to save towards.

We presented the budget to the PTA membership for approval and voting. We outlined what kind of fundraiser sales and events we would hold during the year, such as wrapping paper and candy sales, spaghetti dinners, talent shows, fall and spring carnivals, etc. We told them what we were raising the money for, which was for their kids in their own school to have a better learning environment. We had good ‘beggars’ on our PTA board that were expert at getting donated items, food, or money for our special events.

Many of the events we planned had little or no overhead and the whole community of parents, grandparents and friends would turn out. It is amazing how much money can be raised when you only ask for a couple dollars for a ticket to a talent show or when a family of four can eat a spaghetti dinner for $12, with the cafeteria ladies volunteering their time cooking and all the food donated. Many times all the money we took in was profit, with little to no overhead.

We helped the school form business partnerships which provided much funding and opportunities.

The heart and soul of our success was the volunteer time and effort put in by our many volunteers over the years. Most of them had full time jobs, but they made the time to support us either throughout the year or for just one or two events. Some of my fondest memories are of working with other parents in my community, getting to know people I would normally not have known. It brought us much closer together as a community.

The key to building a good and big volunteer base is to have good communication and tell people what you need from them, how much time it will take, give them a scheduled time and duty and then THANK them a lot for their help. We invited all to come help and stressed that if they had only one hour to give for the whole year, that was fine, and we appreciated that one hour and would not call them repeatedly asking again. We sent a VIP list out at the beginning of the year to let people know what was planned, when, and how much time we needed, and they could check off what they wanted to help with, and then the chair of that committee would call when the time came, assemble the volunteers needed, and give them their tasks.

Parents and teachers volunteered together which was great for relaxing tensions and establishing good communications between parents and teachers.

If this all sounds too good to be true and you still think I am being glib in my comments, then I am sorry for you. I prefer to think that anything is possible with a positive attitude and a welcoming spirit to others when we unite in a common purpose. Witness the outpouring of support for the Hurricane Katrina victims. Nothing gets people more motivated than helping others where the need is real. The need is real in our schools and when parents and teachers come together they can get anything done for their school, too.

By Karam

September 16, 2005 11:03 AM | Link to this

I am at my childs school every day, at every PTA meeting and probably more involved than most. My child does exceptionally well because my wife and I dont accept anything else, HOWEVER she still has to deal with the fact that the enviroment at her school is not conducive to learning. They dont have as many programs as Decaturs schools and are not learning at the same material as those schools. My wife teaches at a elementary school in decatur but it is a dekalb county school and I know first hand how if the property taxes arent there than the school is not going to have the same facilities nor are they going to have the best teachers or can they fund foreign language programs or technology programs. So dont give me that crap about parents getting involved will help. They had a PTA meeting the other night and parents were busting out the seams trying to get in and be heard. So I know that those of you who are fortunate enough to have a excellent job and live in a great school district than congrats but dont deny those who are less fortunate the opportunity to a FAIR education and if the schools arent funded equally how in the hell can it be fair. And they are not funded equally its based on property taxes. Its unbelievable how insensitive that we as americans have become towards one another. Yes people make bad decisions but dont let the children suffer. This is what purpose. Just go visit an elementary school in the city of atlanta. Lets say one in lakewood or on memorial near capitol st. To be honest those schools suck @$$. But I do understand you guys position.As long as its not your kids being affected than the hell with the less fortunate or you dont want your GOOD kids around those BAD kids right.

By Karen Armsby

September 16, 2005 11:15 AM | Link to this

HStchr, Yes, college is expensive, but we saved from early on, shopped wisely and frugally, and have bought and drove used cars that are paid for up front. We got a 15 yr mtg when we built our house, so that it was paid off when the kids went to college and that monthly payment was then allocated to college expenses. We are debt free, and when the kids all graduate we will have a pay raise, i.e we’ll be able keep all that monthly amt. that has been going to the universities! Grad school daughter took out school loans and we help her some with insurance and car overhead.

By Karam

September 16, 2005 11:15 AM | Link to this

Lets Fund schools out of the lottery or something but property taxes is not going to get the job done. Which is obvious dont we rank like 48th or 49th in education out of the 50 states

By Karen Armsby

September 16, 2005 11:30 AM | Link to this

Karam, You sound like the kind of parent who would be a good PTA leader and get a core of volunteers organized and working to make things better at your school. If you think that your school doesn’t receive the same basic instructional materials, then go to your principal and school board and ask for an accounting. Chances are the extra material or classes at the other schools are there because the parents are well organized and successfully raising funds.

One piece of advice, don’t go into the meeting with the school administrators or school board with a negative or blaming attitude. You need a positive business like attitude, a list of questions about funding allocations, and a list of remedies you seek for the deficiences.

Good Luck!

By HStchr

September 16, 2005 11:33 AM | Link to this

Karam, you prove my point again by mentioning bad schools in bad areas. The schools are a reflection of the communuity they serve. Bad parents raise bad kids—it’s that simple. One PTA meeting where parents show up doesn’t cut it. They have to show up and volunteer time working in the school. They have to go to board meetings, and make phone calls. I’m not saying it’s easy or can be fully accomplished, but it’s either that or move. Schools can’t improve until parents decide it’s important. You prove the point the point by being an involved parent. Children like yours are the one we teachers pray for—the good ones!! As for the bad schools, look at the families they serve. Some try and hope for better, but many do not. The school reflects the community, and no amount of money is going to fix that.

By Lucinda

September 16, 2005 11:49 AM | Link to this

Yes, the school does reflect the community — and that is part of the problem. If the families are having problems, financial and otherwise, so do the children, and thus the schools are forced to deal with those issues, too.

It is a lot more complicated than some of you Polyannas choose to believe. I’m mearly suggesting that some of you open your eyes and try to look from another perspective.

By PosterChild

September 16, 2005 11:53 AM | Link to this

I hear lots of complaints about not being able to afford moving to nice neighborhoods for the good schools, not being able to afford pitching in to help out your child’s school… how about you not have kids if you can’t provide all that you feel they need?

By Karam

September 16, 2005 12:04 PM | Link to this

So what are the odds that every single parent is going to get involved. Some Parents dont get involved because they cant. Or what if they are single parens with several children. My goodnes I refuse that some of you are really that naive. Funding will change schools. The idea that parents are not involved or are not trying is not fair UNLESS you know specifically what those students parents are doing and are not doing. But we do not that schools are dispaportionately funded. I hope I spelled that right. And principals cant spend what they dont have And most principals want their schools to succed because thats what they are guaged on. I know this because my wife teches at a God awful elementary school in Decatur(Dekalb County School). And how dare you say bad parents raise bad kids. A single divorced mother of three is bad or a mother who works hourly and her husband is deployed in iraq is bad to. You are entirely to smart to generalize people like that. Sorry this aint a black and white. There is a lot of complex gray areas. Please dont show your IGNORANCE and lump all bad kids to bad parents

By Karam

September 16, 2005 12:06 PM | Link to this

Poster child another Ignorant comment. Being able to afford what they need and the state not providing adequate education hmm let me think. Your argument privelages have been revoked.

By Karen Armsby

September 16, 2005 12:22 PM | Link to this

John F. Kennedy said, “Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country.” And someone else said, “If you are not a part of the solution, then you are part of the problem.”

I saw a need at my kids’ school when they were very small, and I got together with other like-minded parents and worked hard for many years to make a difference. Along the way a lot of other parents joined us and helped, too, because their kids benefitted from our work. We had no money to begin with, we started small and grew, just like a business that starts small and grows.

I don’t understand why one would feel the need to post insults with snide comments of ‘Pollyanna’ and ‘open your eyes to look from another perspective.’ Guess what, I am not insulted. I was only suggesting that anyone can make changes in your own school if you work with other concerned parents like you. From my perspective, the negative ‘poor me’ attitude and blaming others for having more is part of the problem, not the solution.

By HStchr

September 16, 2005 12:24 PM | Link to this

Karam, calm down dude. I’m not SUGGESTING anything about parents. I’m a single parent myself. Bad parents exist at all levels and and in all places. It’s a fact MOST of the time that involved parents raise better kids!! It’s not about money. Why, if we are spending more per child now than ever before in history, why then are there still bad schools?? I can promise you if you down to Creekside HS in S. Fulton, you could put millions in there and you won’t change the students or parents and thus won’t improve the school. Money helps, and certainly there are schools that aren’t fairly funded, but money won’t solve all the problems will it?

By Karam

September 16, 2005 12:26 PM | Link to this

Its not about neighborhoods essentially. Its about the SUPPOSED right to equal and fair education. And I am not going to make this a race issue just a class issue. Lower class poor people regardless of their race are essentially told to kick rocks and get lost. And I am not poor by any means, I just look at things objectively and with an open mind. Please stop with the parents dont care line. Unless you personnaly know their individual situations thats not fair. My wife and I are the exception not the rule. And we both come from well to do families. Its so easy to say ” roll up your sleeves and get involved” when its not your family or kids. Just look at New Orleans, it sucks to be poor or lower income but we who have overcame or achieved a better life should help our brethren and if it means allowing those outside your district into your schools than its a small price to pay. How can you turn away a person who is trying to do better for their children. But I guess thats my bleeding heart. Hate me for caring if you want but I think its well worth it to help some poor kid achieve his dreams. Oh no the less fortunate are coming, lock your doors and hide your daughters. Just a bit of humour. But whats the real underlying issue. Hmmmm

By HStchr

September 16, 2005 12:42 PM | Link to this

Karam, I’m a teacher with 15 years experience. I’m not attacking you, just offering a counterpoint. I’ve taught most of those years in an impoverished district. It is just my experience I base my opinions on. I never said it was about class, race, or economic level. It’s about loving the kids and being involved in their lives. I’ve had parents of both poor and rich kids who were good parents and vice versa. Money, in my view, has much less to do with the problem. Please don’t take any of this personally. I’m just speaking from my experience and not saying I’m completely right. I agree, the poor are often ignored, but when the parents choose to get involved, the kids do better. My school is in a poor rural district and we have improved every year for the last five years. Why? We didn’t get funding suddenly raised- we just got busy and got together and are doing it somehow.

By Karen Armsby

September 16, 2005 12:43 PM | Link to this

Karam, Whoa! You jumped to many conclusions about HStchr’s meaning for BAD parent. I think HStchr meant that if you look at the unruly, disruptive, poor performing students at your child’s school, chances are they come from broken homes with little to no supervision or guidance from any responsible adults, and no training for manners, study habits or respect for others. The poorly educated, lazy, irresponsible, unemployed, drug using, alcoholic loser (i.e.BAD) parents produce children like themselves. And FYI there are as many white losers as those of any other race or creed.

If you are living in a school district that serves the children of these losers, and despite your best efforts you see no hope for turning your child’s school into a better learning environment, then we are only suggesting that you move to an area with parents more like yourself, who have children more like your child. The point is that GOOD parents produce GOOD children.

By Karen ?Armsby

September 16, 2005 12:55 PM | Link to this

Karam, I am the one that posted earlier that ‘we just rolled up our sleeves and got organiized’ and started working and it was for MY children in their school and with the parents of others working for their children. If you had a full PTA meeting, then all you need at the next meeting is a good organizer to help you get names and numbers from those concerned parents, meet with them and the PTA officers, and draw up plans to solve the problems at the school. We in this blog are only trying to offer solutions. Take them or leave them and have a nice day.

By Karam

September 16, 2005 01:22 PM | Link to this

Please define good parents

By RF

September 16, 2005 01:39 PM | Link to this

that’s easy, Karam. Look at yourself—you have kids, right? Good parents are those who are involved with their kids; in other words, the kids’ needs come first. You read to them, read with them, spend time playing with them, watch TV with them, hug them, love them, and discipline them so they know right from wrong. Kids need our attention and time and an example to follow. Many parents do this, and generally if not always, their kids turn out to be good people. No guarntees mind you, but if parents spend time with their kids (quality, not necessarily quantity), then the kids do better. As a single parent, I don’t have the quantity of time I wish I had, but I have learned that every minute we’re together can be time for teaching them, loving them, and helping them understand what it means to be a good person. Money isn’t a factor here—although it does give one some resources for material things, it is the time and attitude of the parent that counts. I don’t have much money, but I have found that sitting in the floor and reading or playing with my kids, sitting and singing silly songs on the porch, or just watching a movie TOGETHER is what matters most. What do you think a good parent is?

By Karen Armsby

September 16, 2005 01:49 PM | Link to this

Karam, Good parents (or guardians, grandmas, aunts or uncles, etc.) are those who rear their children in a caring and loving home, establishing good communication with their children, training them in good values, polite behavior and manners, and respect for themselves and others. Good parents guide their children in learning at home and require good attendance and study habits for school. They establish rules and boundaries appropriate for the child’s age and establish consequences for when the rules are broken. Good parents read to and with their kids, watch movies together, play cards and boardgames and build lego houses. They ride bikes with their kids, go hiking and swimming and camping together. Good parents are their children’s first teachers, then work in cooperation with the school teachers to make sure the children are on track for learning. Good parents teach their children to help others when they see the need, and to use their talents to lead others where they can. Good parents teach their children to be curious and creative, to have fun and to laugh freely and often. Good parents teach their children that the world is a wide and wonderful place, and with a postive attitude and hard work they can accomplish their goals, whatever they may be. Good parents teach their children to be critical thinkers, self reliant, and go getters. Good parents teach their children to nurture and develop their minds, their hearts and their souls.

By Karam

September 16, 2005 01:50 PM | Link to this

Karen how do you know what HStchr meant by bad parents. He or she did not specify and I am in no way offended at all I just dont understand how you could know someones situation unless you know them pesonnally. Now please tell me how selling chicken dinners and washing cars at your local burger king is going to attract the more qualified teachers to underfunded poor performing schools. How is that going to bring programs into the schools. Yeah it might buy some uniforms or a few second hand computers but people you are not even acknowledging the fact that the system is not fair to the children. So that leads me to believe that you are out of touch. Karen these same parents who you claim are not doing anything sometimes raise 4 kids by themselves work two jobs and still attend council meetings and PTA meetings so please stop acting as if this is the problem. Have you ever been to a PTA meeting at one of these underprivelaged schools? Do you know what is takig place or are you on the outside looking in. Now Im not trying to ofend you either but be objective in your thinking go to these type of schools in question go to their PTA meetings and than make suggestions. You dont even know whats going on or what they are doing or not. Losers was a bit harsh. Im sure there are just as many upper class losers to its just easier to mask with money. And you still have not addressed what is wrong with allowing students from these schools into higher acheiving schools nor have you addressed wether or not it is fair to fund schools in the current manner. :) Another fact kids tend to use more drugs in the schools of higher class communities. Got that little unknown fact off google. Oh yeah karen I did 6 years in the US army 1/118th FA. Everybody aint looking for handouts just equal opportunity. But I guess that doesnt matter as long as some get better opportunities than others sure sucks to be on the lacking side.

By Lucinda

September 16, 2005 01:53 PM | Link to this

I noticed nobody answered the question of how you install a new gym floor (hmm, about $30K?) , pay a school nurse ($40K) , pay for a music program ($40K), etc., etc., without money.

By Lucinda

September 16, 2005 01:56 PM | Link to this

Karam: She don’t have a clue, dude.

By Ernest

September 16, 2005 02:00 PM | Link to this

I want to get back to the crux of Patti’s question, what should happen to the student/parent violators. I don’t have ‘skin in this game’ as I am not a Decatur city resident. IMO, the taxpayers should communicate their wishes to their board members.

I ‘hope’ they would consider making available seats open to non-residents. Perhaps they could charge a ‘nominal’ tuition for that privelege. We all know that when one comes ‘out of pocket’ for something, we work hard to get something out of it.

By Karen Armsby

September 16, 2005 02:04 PM | Link to this

Karam, I said, “I think” NOT I “know” what Hstchr’s meaning was for Bad parent. This is an opinion forum. “I think,” means I give my opinion. As I said earlier, it takes many volunteers working together to build up a school’s resources. I only offer my experiences as one way i was successful in working with other parents to improve the learning environment at our school. If that doesn’t work for you or your child’s school, then you don’t have to take my suggestions. But quit insulting me for trying to be helpful. Your disdain is palpable.

By Karam

September 16, 2005 02:05 PM | Link to this

Karen where do you get all of your stereotypes from. Again things are not black and white. LOTS of gray area

By decatur neighbor

September 16, 2005 02:05 PM | Link to this

“A person living at a City of Decatur address pays city taxes. Why is it wrong for that person to choose somone to use their tax money to attend a City of Decatur school? The tax expemption age in the City is over 65 so just about every home owner in the city pays city taxes.”

1) The school system budget takes into account the population of school-age children in the city, relative to the tax base. They are not collecting enough tax money to support every household having kids in the system. If we have to assume every household will send a child to school, then the millage rate has to go up. (And we just finally got control of that upward spiral!)

2) The City of Decatur offers an array of homestead exemptions to senior citizens, based on combinations of age and income. Essentially, the older you are and the lower your income, the more tax exemptions you qualify for. This is an attempt to avoid taxing our senior citizens out of their homes.

2) In addition to the tax exemptions offered by the city, a lot of individuals and community organizations in Decatur conduct and support various fundraising activities specifically to provide additional tax relief to our senior citizens in need.

4) I’m not in a position to know definite facts, but it’s a small town, and anecdotal evidence (and simply observing what goes on in my immediate n’hood) indicates that many of the out-of-district students attending Decatur city schools without paying tuition are using their grandparents’ or great-grandparents’ home addresses.

Might these be some of the same elderly residents on whose behalf the rest of us are bending over backward to shelter them from the full impact of rising property taxes? I’m sorry, really—some of these folks are my neighbors and friends—but nobody gets to have it both ways. At least, not in the kind of community we all like to think live in.

Since the school system looked the other way for years, it seems appropriate not to lower the boom with completely draconian measures all of a sudden. Hence, the decision (I’m guessing) not to pursue retroactive tuition payments or attempt to prosecute people, and to offer the option of paying tuition. After all, the objective is not to shut out kids from a good education. But we are a tiny system operating with high education standards on a very short shoestring, and we cannot afford to accept all comers.

Plus, it’s not fair. And perhaps most important of all, as many have pointed out, it teaches young people to lie and cheat. If parents insist on setting that example for their own children, there’s little the rest of us can do. But the school system doesn’t have to be party to it.

By RF

September 16, 2005 02:13 PM | Link to this

Hey guys—lighten up a little. Karen’s quoting from her experience, and I’ve seen a lot of cases where she’s right. I teach in a poor school, and let me tell you, our PTA meetings have more teachers than parents. No, our gym doesn’t have a new floor, but we play on it anyway. Our A/C is cranky, but we live with it. Over the last few years, we’ve had to fight our district for new things because the students we serve (of ALL races) have spent a lot of years tearing things up. Science labs, computer labs, etc. have been torn apart by kids who don’t appreciate things in school. We, as teachers and administrators, finally realized that we had to get control and fix the problem. When we finally convinced a core group of parents to help us and get the word out, things began to change. Money isn’t pouring it and yet our scores keep going up. Yes, it would be nice to have more money, but I’ll tell you when the teachers and even just a few parents get together things can change. There are schools that are underfunded, often because the districts can’t afford to keep replacing what the students don’t respect. That’s just my experience, not nearly the whole story I’m sure.

Don’t criticize Karen too much. She’s raised three kids who are all in college and post-grad programs. I think her experience deserves a little credit. It may not apply in all circumstances, but her wisdom is practical.

By Annie Mae

September 16, 2005 02:16 PM | Link to this

Karen A: Dacula ‘aint Atlanta, lady. Go hang out at Carver High School, then offer up some advice, k?

By Ernest

September 16, 2005 02:20 PM | Link to this

This discussion crosses several earlier blogs, what makes a good school and the possibility of a state wide school tax, to name a few. Perhaps a possible solution is to assess another penny tax for schools and provide some property tax relief. A system should not be penalized for doing something extra for their community.

Something interesting to look at are the Theme schools in DeKalb County. Some call them ‘private’ schools being operated with public dollars. Why? It provides an environment for ‘like-minded’ parents to send their children with guidelines for attire and parental participation. In some communities it is considered a ‘coup’ if your child gets a seat in one of these schools.

By edmundo

September 16, 2005 02:21 PM | Link to this

Regarding funding:

Atlanta City spends the most on a per student basis than any other system in the state. Based on funding alone, they should be the best system in the state. DeKalb and Fulton are also some of the highest cost per student systems in the state. If this funding is not reaching the schools—where is it going?

By Karen Armsby

September 16, 2005 02:21 PM | Link to this

Karam and Lucinda, It’s easy to show contempt when you are anonymous. In case you don’t want to reread my previous posts, we saved for the gym floor for several years, and the clinic ‘nurse’ was a PTA volunteer practical nurse that accepted our offer of minimum wage (she had been doing it for free for two years anyway). All of the clinic supplies were donated or purchased at a discount and we had yearly clinic drives where parents send in band-aids, etc.

Hard work is all it takes, so roll up your sleeves and try it. And by the way you never get 100% participation from parents, at best we got 40% of the parents helping in some way over the course of the year, some of them only for an hour. As is usual in volunteer efforts you have a small core of workers who are always available helping and organizing and cleaning up afterwards. Just like real life, huh?

By Karam

September 16, 2005 02:22 PM | Link to this

Let the kids stay. If they could afford 550.00 dollars a month than their kids would probably be in private school to begin with. And for some others, most teachers do not want to go to underperforming schools because they are also guaged on the performance of their students so another reason for the inequality of the school system. Other than my wife who happens to want to teach in impoverished schools most teachers dont want to teach anywhere that could impede their progress and potential for promotion. Now thats just what my wife says the teachers who work with her say. Absolutely shameful.

By Deni

September 16, 2005 02:36 PM | Link to this

Annie Mae: You choose to live in Atlanta. Your choice! Don’t get angry because of your good / bad choices.

Karam: In life you have people that have, and people that have not! Period end of sentence. Life is not fair. Work to change things where you are! If you don’t want to do that, don’t do it. Stop knocking others because of you and your wife’s choice to live where you live. You did say you both come from well to do families, and are both educated.

The world is not perfect. Period end of sentence. You are not entitled to equal in this society. Work to change things if your don’t like it. Or just live with it as is.

By RF

September 16, 2005 02:36 PM | Link to this

Annie Mae— give it a rest. Carver’s the way it is because of people like you. And try to use some decent grammar, okay?

By RF

September 16, 2005 02:41 PM | Link to this

Ahh, yes, Karam we agree on one thing—the teachers!! It takes a special breed to work in an impoverished area, and they tend to burn out quickly. I think teachers would stay in the classroom if it weren’t so tempting to practically double your salary by becoming an administrator. Now I don’t think that most don’t want to teach, in fact most I know are absolutely dedicated to it. There are some who don’t, but let me promise you they don’t stay in the profession long!

By RF

September 16, 2005 02:44 PM | Link to this

The big problem for Decatur City is going to be once they allow a few to pay and go there, soon they will be overrun with kids, underbudgeted, scrambling for teachers and space, and generally trying to handle the increased demand of educating that many children. Wait—-that sounds like the City of ATLANTA system, doesn’t it? They’ll have to be careful, and I’ll bet you after a few football players graduate, they’ll rescind the offer…

By Karen Armsby

September 16, 2005 02:44 PM | Link to this

RF, Thanks! All I wanted to say is that parents make the difference for improvements in our schools.

Annie Mae, So what do you think the problem is?

By HStchr

September 16, 2005 02:49 PM | Link to this

Edmundo—a lot of that money does in fact reach the individual schools. No amount of money will make the kids want to learn and have a different life when they grow up. Money and fancy things in the building won’t cure the problem of underperforming schools. Much, much more to this than money.

By NotMyProblem

September 16, 2005 02:49 PM | Link to this

I keep hearing the word “fair” over and over from people, yet I haven’t heard a single one of you talk about some personal responsbility for the life decisions that people make, which can be good or bad, and usually end up leading someone into a lifestyle of either comfort or poverty. It’s a shame that kids get mixed into the equation, but that’s life. Life isn’t fair, and education funding should never be based on what is perceived as “fair”. It should be based (as it is) on the contributions of the community that supports it, and if the community isn’t willing to support the schools, then the parents have no right to expect others to pay for that support. You make your bed, you lie in it. It’s that simple.

By Karam

September 16, 2005 02:50 PM | Link to this

Edmundo thats simply because of the shear number of students. Again why are you all so against letting underprivelaged in your schools. Nobody has given a valid reason and until you have actually been to these schools you cant say whats going on. Decatur neighbor made a very compelling argument but in essence you are you saying that your kids deserve a better education because you pay more property taxes. Please clarify. Is the current way schools are funded satisfactory?

By Annie Mae

September 16, 2005 02:55 PM | Link to this

Y’all need to get your fact straight. Decatur City has had tuition paying out-of-city students for years. It dont never get overcrowded cause they control how many they let in. The scoffing cheaters who sneak in there is the problem. Kick em out!

Otherwise, the problem is usually some crack head parents who dont care about them kids anyhow.

But they all aint like that and if you have to go to school with them, you shouldn’t have to, is all Im saying.

By NotMyProblem

September 16, 2005 03:00 PM | Link to this

Karam - the fact is that because Edmundo pays more in property taxes, his child IS entitled to whatever level of education quality that can provide. If the schools in your area are bad, and getting your children a good education is a priority for you, move. If it’s not, stay where you are. There are good schools everywhere, including areas where housing isn’t outrageous or elite. This “fairness” and “entitlement” attitude is exactly what has led most of the people in poverty to stay exactly where they are. This is America - the land of opportunity. Not the land of subsidies for those who choose not to better themselves or their life. If Edmundo can afford to send his kids to a private school or live in a school system where quality education is cherished rather than stigmatized, I say more power to him. It has no bearing on the kind of education my child will get. Mine will get a good education because I have made that a priority, and I make the financial and lifestlye decisions and sacrifices that enable me to afford it. I’m not going to pay more in property taxes to provide an education to the children of parents who value brand name shoes or spinning rims on their car more than their children’s learning. It’s not going to happen.

By Karam

September 16, 2005 03:07 PM | Link to this

Deni you are foolish our constitution entitles us to equal and fair education. Along with the supreme court. But I can understand your selfish viewpoint. As long as me and mine are taking care of the hell with yours. Wow I didnt think someone would actually come out and say something like that. By the way RF my wife teaches at Glyn Haven elementary where do you teach??? I want to check the test scores as compared to better funded schools.

By Karen Armsby

September 16, 2005 03:12 PM | Link to this

Annie Mae, you said “the problem is usually some crack head parents who don’t care about them kids anyhow.” It appears that you agree with my previous comments that bad parents produce bad children. So the problem rests not with underfunding at Carver (your example)but with the disruptive and underperforming children of the crack head parents who ruin it for everyone else? Seems to me that you should work with the principal and school board to get the disrupters out of the school. No Child Left Behind should be amended to No Well Behaved Hard Working Child Left Behind. A poster said earlier that Decatur City Schools are so good because they have a high level of community involvement and they budget their money wisely. Shouldn’t you parents of Dekalb Co. schools work together for the same community involvement and require wise budgeting from your school board and schools?

By Karam

September 16, 2005 03:17 PM | Link to this

not my problem Where are the good schools in impoverished neighborhoods located? PLEAAASe tell me. You dont even know anyone in these areas personnaly dude please with those stereotypes. You have never even been to those schools and I dont know you but you please take your stereotypes and shove them. Everybody lower incomed aint got spinning rims. Have you been to dallas or powder springs. Those are all rich kids with 20 inch rims and expensive sneakers. I wouldnt consider myself lower income but YOUR constitution and mine and poor peoples and every american citizen says that they are entitled to equal education. I aint asking for 40 acres and a mule. Just equal education. And you have yet to say if the education system was fair and equal. Seriously stop it. Thats just hateful and plain mean.

By Karam

September 16, 2005 03:23 PM | Link to this

Karen how many students of crack heads do you know . I knew you would show your true colors if we continued this discussion. Again you have probably never been to one of these schools. You are so out of touch its unreal. You have yet to refute that you have never been to the “BAD” schools so what would you know about them.

By Karam

September 16, 2005 03:25 PM | Link to this

JUST admit that you are selfish not my problem.

By Karen Armsby

September 16, 2005 03:34 PM | Link to this

Karam, We all have the ‘opportunity’ to obtain an education, not the ‘right’ to an education. But not all people appreciate or respect that opportunity. nor hold the same value for an education. Parents who dropped out of school and never went back often have children who drop out, and never go back, thus earning their generational poverty label.

It is about all personal responsibility and the choices we make. Some of us choose to work hard, some not. Some choose to live close into Atlanta (to be close to work?) and wind up in a less desirable school system, and some of us choose to live in a good school district, but outside of Atlanta and we have a LONG commute to work. And there are plenty of affordable neighborhoods in good school districts. I can show you a house near to me that is asking $30K less than your mortgage amt. We can choose to buy new cars with high loan amounts, or pay much less in cash for a used car.

As you said there are a lot of gray areas. No one is being mean or selfish here. The fact is that we live and die by our choices every day. It’s a balancing act, and none of us are perfect, but we do the best we can and hope for the best for all of our children, including yours and mine.

By Karam

September 16, 2005 03:34 PM | Link to this

So essentially parents who make more money are better at parenting than parents who make less being that it has nothing to do with school funding. And if you dont make enough to live in a “better neighborhood” than sucks for you your at the mercy of the system. Some one please quit beating around the bush and outright say it.

By Deni

September 16, 2005 03:48 PM | Link to this

Karam: I could not be as foolish as you. This is a capitalist society. If I am selfish, so are you.

I am selfish because I work hard to raise my children. I work hard to help their schools. I work hard to effect change in my community.

You are selfish because you feel you are “entitled” just because.

You sound like someone that just likes debate. You are not going to change anything, just debate for “entitlement.”

As far as my having mines and the hell with you; that is right. I earned the right to feel that way. I give back in many different ways.

You have no idea where I came from, what I have been through, and where I am going.

You don’t know anything about me, yet you feel “entitled” to put down my opinion.

If you are so educated, and as you have said from a well to do family, effect change.

Otherwise stop “whining.” You are not “entitled”.

By Heather

September 16, 2005 03:49 PM | Link to this

Just to let you all know - City of Decatur Schools does offer children outside of the City of Decatur district to come to school here if they pay tuition. It is $5500 for the school year per child and acceptance is based on enrollment, transcripts and discipline history. We welcome with open arms children outside of the district. These parents are trying to give their kids a better education and are willing to sacrifice financially for that. It is much cheaper than actually trying to buy a house here and paying the property taxes year to year. It is hard to justify having people pay tuition when so many people are falsifying documents and lying to get their kids into the school system. Please call the central office if you are interested in applying or if you have information on someone who is trying to circumvent the tuition costs by lying about their residency.

By Karam

September 16, 2005 03:54 PM | Link to this

Karen I have to say that you are just out of touch. Lets our families get together and just visit some schools or areas or better yet please go to glyn haven elementary on their next pta and see what really goes on. Ask questions to see whats steps are being taken. Look for how many crack heads are in the cafateria to. Than afterwards tell me if you feel the same. You do seem genuine in your feelings but sorry karen you are missing the bigger picture. As long as its not your kids or their kids than people honestly dont care

By NotMyProblem

September 16, 2005 03:54 PM | Link to this

I never said there were good schools in impoverished neighborhoods. I said there were good schools in affordable in non-elite housing areas. If you are living in poverty, you have no business having kids anyway. All you’ll do is make them suffer along with you from your bad decisions.

If wanting the best for my child, making the decisions and sacrifices necessary to ensure that my child gets the things he/she needs, moving to an area with good schools and reasonble housing makes me selfish, then yes. I’m selfish. I haven’t worked my whole life and made decisions based on where I want to be, just so that some other parent who has done nothing to prepare for the future or provide for their children, can benefit from my sacrifices. It’s not my problem.

By Karam

September 16, 2005 04:00 PM | Link to this

actually deni you are foolish for not kowing your constitutional rights being an american citizen ENTITLES you to a fair and equal education and knowing the capitalism has nothing to do with schools not being funded equally. We are talking about public schools. :) Please tell us how you had it so hard an pulled your self up by your boot straps and made it. Please we want to hear your testimony. I would eat you alive in a public debate

By Karen Armsby

September 16, 2005 04:00 PM | Link to this

Karam, We live in a society based on capitalism but which has been drifting for years toward socialism and the redistribution of wealth through increasing taxation. I live in Gwinnett County with the largest school system in the state. We built our house here 21 years ago because we heard that Gwinnett schools were good. Our county has a good property tax base and it has for years sent a good portion of that tax money to Atlanta where it is redistributed to rural and poorer school districts.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that Dekalb County has a pretty substantial property tax base, too. So what is your school system doing with all that money? WHY do you have g*d awful schools as you said? How could they be underfunded? Who do you want to supply the money you think is needed in your schools? Do you want more of my tax dollars? Why should I have to pay for your poor choice of school systems? It appears to me that your school system is mismanaging the money and the loser portion of the Dekalb Co. population is tearing up your schools and ruining it for everyone else.

Karam, Stop with the race baiting and ‘selfish’ name calling. Put your house on the market, and someone with no kids will buy it, and you will make a nice profit, and you can move into a bigger house in a better school district, where your child will have a better learning environment, and you will have peace of mind!

Or stay there, work for change and improvements, run for school board and make a difference in your community. It is your choice, put up or….

By Karam

September 16, 2005 04:05 PM | Link to this

Where are those schools @ not my problem could you name a few. I didnt think you could you selfish hypocrite you probably cheat on your taxes or your spouse. But that type of stuff doesnt count. Dont sell me on this you did everything right crap and now your reaping the benefits. Im sure if we did some digging you did some dirt thats if you are not still doing dirt. I hope some impoverished kid kicks your poor kids @$$

By Lucinda

September 16, 2005 04:08 PM | Link to this

You are missing the fact that the children suffer as a result of the parents’ poor choices. So we have the next generation not learning a thing because the parents are idiots. Are those children to blame? Shouldn’t they have a good education, too????

You should ALL care because those kids create larger societal ills that affect everybody, rich or poor.

By Karam

September 16, 2005 04:09 PM | Link to this

unfortunate and poor and lazy are all different people

By Karen Armsby

September 16, 2005 04:14 PM | Link to this

To repeat; Good parents can be rich or poor, white or black, or whatever. Bad parents can be rich or poor, black or white or whatever. In areas where the parents fail to properly parent their kids, and as a result the kids are illmannered and unruly, with defiant attitudes, and who don’t or won’t study or work, then the school and all of the students suffer. The unruly kids disrupt classes, and ruin it for others who are trying to learn. They steal and break equipment and ruin it for everyone. The school system may not have the funds to be constantly replacing the stolen and broken materials, so guess what everyone goes without. That’s the truth.

By Karam

September 16, 2005 04:17 PM | Link to this

they dont care lucinda the kids have to suffer becaus e of the parents like I said and several have reiterated aint there kids so why would they care. The kids are collateral damage for their parents bad mistakes. HYPOCRITES but I bet they all feel they are good people or some other cliche. God knows I hope none of them are so called christians because that was not the message of JESUS at all.

By NotMyProblem

September 16, 2005 04:18 PM | Link to this

Well I doubt that some impoverished kid will kick my kid’s a@@, but I do think that my kid will happily give that kid a job mowing the lawn or cleaning the house. Which is exactly the kind of work the impoverished kid is qualified to do, if he/she doesn’t take it upon themselves to get an education at whatever school they attend. I don’t cheat on my taxes or my spouse, because I have made good enough decisions in my life that I’m happy to be completely honest with both and have no reason to lie or hide anything. Dig away, Karam. All you’ll find in my past is dedication, hard work and goals I’ve set and met. Your bitterness shows that you’ve obviously never done any of those.

By Karen Armsby

September 16, 2005 04:23 PM | Link to this

Lucinda, We in this blog do care for the children, that is why we are here. The volunteer work I did at my kids school was for all of the children at the school, including and especially the poor kids.

What remedy do you seek to fix the problem of underperforming schools? What do you think is at the root of their problem?

By Karam

September 16, 2005 04:23 PM | Link to this

Whos truth karen? You never stated what school was your study case or where these ideas come from.

By edmundo

September 16, 2005 04:26 PM | Link to this

Re: Per Student Costs.

Due to the size of Atlanta, it should have lower per student costs due to eccnomies of scale. Using per student costs is effective because you may evaluate different sized systems on their cost and output (i.e. test scores).

Re: Gurantee of Education

The Constition does not provide for for any entitlement programs such as education. Public education falls under state and local governement responsiblity and it is optional. The US Congress does provide some funding via a laws passed by congress in each fiscal year.

In Brown v. Board the Supreme Court ruled that where a public education is offered it must be done so equally to everyone in the community and schools may not be segrated on the basis of race. Although politically unlikely, under the constituion a state could choose not to have public schools.

If all schools within a system are not equal, then the community (county or city) should pressure there representatives to change the situation.

By Karen Armsby

September 16, 2005 04:34 PM | Link to this

Karam, Each school has a yearly budget allotted by their school system for paying salaries, buying equipment, books, resources, etc. It’s like your annual income. However, you can live outside of your means by using a credit card or taking loans out. An individual school is not able to buy on credit, so when equipment, books, desks, computers and other resources are stolen or vandalized, damaged and destroyed then they have to do without, until the next year, or until someone can donate the money or equipment, or their PTA can raise money to replace it.

By Karam

September 16, 2005 04:36 PM | Link to this

I was kidding about the kid beating your kid up statement actually but I figured it would get a rise out of you and show what you really think of those less fortunate than you when its only the GRACE of GOD that has allowed you to be whatever you claim you are

By Karam

September 16, 2005 04:41 PM | Link to this

Good post edmundo but atlanta schools are overpopulated thus the higher per student average. Karen what the heck are you talking about. Sometimes there aint no equipment computers to begin with and what schools are you refering to

By Karen Armsby

September 16, 2005 04:44 PM | Link to this

The respect or disrespect we show to others is a reflection of the amount of respect we have for ourselves.

By kaa

September 16, 2005 05:13 PM | Link to this

Is it stealing if someone is paying taxes for the house on the address being used? My family has been Decatur residents for over 20 years. My parents’ house is worth way more than they paid for it. Now instead of paying a morgage every month, they have to put that money away for taxes. If my parents want any of their grandchildren to go to a City of Decatur school, I think they should have that right. They are paying the taxes so someone in my family should be able to benefit. It is amazaing how the City of Decatur Schools were not kicking out cheaters when the system enrollment was low and the bodies were needed to help keep enrollment up. I gradutated from Decatur High in 1991 and the school population was in the low 300’s. Now that the school’s population has grown over the past 10 years then all of a sudden the “cheater problem” is an issue. BTW there are some African-American homeowners in the City of Decatur. Most of them or old w/no children because they bought their houses before living in Decatur became so in Vouge.

By Karam

September 19, 2005 08:19 AM | Link to this

The conclusion that I have gathered is that nobody likes lying and cheating, allegedly. Which I would agree is wrong. But everyone seemed to avoid wether or not the current way that schools are funded is fair for the children. Regardless of the mistakes of he parents, I can think of no child that asked to be born in poverty. So why can we not distribute the funds across the schools equally. This is America not some corrupt third world nation that doesnt value the education of those less fortunate. Right.

By Lucinda

September 19, 2005 08:54 AM | Link to this

Some of you ought to consider the cost to you of uneducated students who later end up using a disproportionate share of social services and/or being incarcerated. You will pay those costs from your tax dollars.

Don’t you think it makes a lot more sense to pay for education now so that we have more productive citizens in the future? That’s in your self interest.

And thank you, Karam, for pointing out that the “we have it so *$# you” attitude is not at all like Christ. He, after all, hung out with the cast-offs of society: harlots and tax collectors and the like.

Love your neighbor as yourslef. There is no commandment greater than these. Mark 12:31

By Deni

September 19, 2005 08:59 AM | Link to this

Karam: 2 people grossing 75k, CHOOSE to afford a 169k mortgage, along with 2 cars with notes. Hmm and the same people have student loans. Hmm some may say these 2 people could CHOOSE to make better life choices. Hmm working for IBM? Okay.

And these same 2 people come from well to do families. Hmm. Finally these same 2 people want other people (that have sacrificed to live where they want)to accommodate their CHOICE to live this lifestyle in a neighborhood they chose. Where the school district is less than what they desire.

I think you are flat out lying because you like debate. You just like to argue. It does not matter what anyone explains or suggests. You want “entitlement.�

You brought God into the argument. Clearly you need prayer for your “hard heart.� The Bible is pretty specific about what should happen to lazy people. Failure to help make change could be considered lazy!

You offer no solutions just mean-spirited names, mean-spirited comments, and arguments. You sound more like an attorney - want to be. You are in your own words “mean and hateful.�

You are angry and bitter, about your own CHOICES. It is always easy to blame others for your failures. Blame your skin color, religion, society, Karen Armsby, in fact everybody else.

You said you are educated, use your education to effect change. File a lawsuit demanding that education be created equal. Contact your congressman, go to the school board, principal demand accountability. In any event do something or stop “whining.�

You are silly. You make me laugh. “Eat me alive?� What is that about? Your ego? I don’t need to defend what I have done. I don’t have to prove anything to you this is a blog in cyberspace!

I see my handiwork everyday in my children. I see my handiwork in the lives of children I have touched thru mentoring, and in other ways. I am both grateful and thankful for the fruits of my hardwork. I have helped effect change.

My children know about the various struggles to improve their schools and our community. My children are my glory.

By Karen Armsby

September 19, 2005 09:24 AM | Link to this

Deni, Thank You!

By Ann

September 19, 2005 09:26 AM | Link to this

Unfortunately - the City Schools of Decatur is a totally seperate entity from DeKalb County Schools. We only have 3 K-3 schools, 1 4/5 school, 1 middle school and 1 high school. There really isn’t a way to distribute the funds across our schools because we have so few of them to distribute to.

I do believe that the parents who try to claim their parents address as their own do so with their child’s best intentions, but are misguided thinking that because their parents (the grandparents) pay city of Decatur taxes that it somehow entitles their children to attend the school system. Can you imagine how large the enrollment would be utilizing the same amount of money to educate all of these kids, grandkids, nieces, nephews and cousins? Everyone would be trying to enroll their grandchildren here even though the taxes that the grandparents pay is quite significant it is not enough to educate 6 grandkids. HELLO!! Why should all Decatur residents pay to educate the grandkids, nieces, nephews, cousins of some of the residents here.

In order for your child to come to Decatur schools YOU need to be a resident. YOU need to pay taxes, higher rent, or tuition (like the rest of the parents that live out of district do). YOU need to be a responsible parent, be an good example to your child and not try to cheat the rest of the people here in Decatur. YOU take money from the education of my child and my neighbors children and YOU don’t even live here. My child has the most awful text books and doesn’t have a book for some classes - I sometimes wonder if there were less children here from other districts (not paying tuition) if this would still be the case. I welcome the stricter resideny checks, the home visits by an attorny(yes they do visit the homes)and I want those parents to pay back tuition if they are caught cheating the system.

If your mother or grandmother pays taxes here - GREAT. I don’t pay high taxes so that 30 Stone Mountain kids (that are related to someone in Decatur) can come here. And I am sure that the majority of residents that don’t have grandkids yet or who don’t have kids at all - just love the fact that almost all of the their taxes go to educating your child - the one whose parent has decided to lie to get into Decatur schools.

Its not like we are Harvard or anything. Okay, the schools are better here than those in DeKalb that surround it - but come on!! Get involved at your childs school of RESIDENCE. Encourage the other parents in YOUR district to take charge of their school. Help YOUR school system become better so that when we withdraw your child out of the City Schools of Decatur for falsifying documentation and/or lying about where you live they will have a decent school to go to.

By Karen Armsby

September 19, 2005 09:33 AM | Link to this

Karam, We blogged all day on Friday. I was at home and had the day off while some work was being done on my house. Were you off work on Friday? If so, then you could have spent the day orgainzing some PTA fundraising projects for your daughter’s school. You could have been calling on businesses in your area to see if they would join a business partnership with your school. You could have called your school board rep and asked to meet with him or her to get your funding questions answered.

If you were at work on Friday and blogging on company time, then look out, because employers do not like their employees being paid to blog all day, and not work. And since you work for IBM, be aware that someone is watching your computer use.

By HStchr

September 19, 2005 09:39 AM | Link to this

Lucinda—you’re right about the cost of dealing with uneducated adults in our society. Unfortunately, having taught in schools that fit the description of “good” and “bad”, I can tell you that money only goes so far. Money can’t take the place of a stable home and involved parents/guardians. No matter how much we spend on education, the schools cannot and should not have to make up for the lives that people lead outside the school. It is a sad reality that with all we spend in education we still have people in our society who appear to have very little education. Curricula, books, labs, and computers are necessary tools, but the most important ingredient is children who are loved, nurtured, and given structure outside of school. Look at your neighborhoods and you’ll see what the schools must struggle to overcome. Money is important, and the efforts of educators are important, but most important is the home. In all my years of teaching, I’ve tried to find ways around that fact, but the love, attention, and knowledge I shower upon my students can’t always overcome life outside the school. We need to allocate more of our tax dollars into parenting programs to help struggling parents learn how to help their children grow so that the schools can do their part. Read some of the writing of Richard Gregory and you’ll see the struggles faced by a poor family and how the attitudes of parents can and do change lives.

Karam, poverty is an issue that we MUST address as a society. Unfortunately, giving the poor money doesn’t seem to help very much. The attitudes and values that poverty breeds cannot be overcome by “moving up” and having more money. Money is the product of education combined with work. You might want to read the book A Framework for Understanding Poverty by Dr. Ruby Payne. We read this as a faculty and it really opened my eyes to the value systems and resources those in poverty rely on. Their values and ideals don’t change automatically when money comes into their lives. It is a constant struggle to change minds and ideas about life to help people move from poverty to what we consider successful life. It can be done, but it takes much more than money to affect the change.

By Karen Armsby

September 19, 2005 09:41 AM | Link to this

Karam, For all of your protests that the Dekalb Co. schools are underfunded, you have not presented us wiht any evidence of that. Have you asked the school system and school board how much money per pupil, for resources and for teachers that each school receives? What is the actual amount of underfunding? And what would be a better or ‘fair’ way to fund schools?

By Lea

September 19, 2005 10:33 AM | Link to this

Although I don’t believe parents should have to pay a fine I do believe that the child be sent back to the correct school. I do understand the need and want to give your child the best education possible, but instead of sending your child away to a ‘better’ or ‘good’ school the parent should become more involved in their school’s PTA. I have always felt that the community/PTA can make a difference and I saw that difference while I was in elementary and high school in South Dekalb Cty. We were able to get new computers and books for the library and new uniforms and equipment for the extracurricular activities. The parents involved in the booster club meetings helped out enormously and even treated us all as they would their own child. There were even parents involved that no longer had children at the schools but they helped for the good of their community. Parents we need to start becoming more pro-active in our communities for there to be postive changes!

By Ernest

September 19, 2005 11:22 AM | Link to this

Karam, I have to agree with Karen on the funding. Take a look at my earlier post in this blog. There are MANY misconceptions regarding how schools are funded with taxpayer dollars. Even if the funding formulas were changed so that more federal dollars were involved to supplement local property taxes, some schools will still have ‘more’ because of parent contributions and involvement. We don’t want to get to a point where you ‘penalize’ those for doing extra for their schools.

By Karen Armsby

September 19, 2005 03:12 PM | Link to this

HStchr, Thanks for the tip on ‘Understanding the Framework of Poverty.’ I just ordered it from Amazon along with two of Ruby Payne’s other books, ‘Understanding Learning’ and ‘Hidden Rules of Class at Work.’

I would like to urge all of you whose children attend school to get involved with your PTA. The National PTA’s website is www.pta.org Parent and teachers working together will improve any school environment.

By ecds

September 20, 2005 08:50 AM | Link to this

I am a resident of the City of Decatur for over 20 years. My children have been in City Schools of Decatur since their preschool days. I have been involved in my kids’ schools the entire time - but there are many parents who are not. Some are not involved because they simply don’t have the time. Some are not involved because they are not welcome (it’s a sad statement, but the schools are NOT always welcoming to parents, regardless of the quality of instruction or the level of parent involvement). Some are not involved for reasons I’m not aware of or privy to.

The issue that I have with the crack-down on residency in City Schools of Decatur, as a long-time resident and tax-payer here, is the way it has been handled.

For many years, when the school population was low, the schools accepted - either tacitly or explicitly - court documents showing students’ guardianship by Decatur residents. There are even parents for whom City Schools of Decatur EMPLOYEES helped with the guardianship papers, even though those same employees KNEW that the student(s) did not live with their legal guardians as was required by the school.

Now we have experienced a reconfiguration (from 7 elementary schools to 3 preK-3 schools and a 4/5 academy). Now we don’t have the same space or the low enrollment that we did earlier. And now the parents of students whose residency requirements were accepted, in the past, are given almost zero notice that their former arrangements are unacceptable, regardless of whether those arrangements were accepted in the past, for however many years.

That all surrounds the issue of residency.

The other thing that troubles me with this whole situation is the “not in my backyard” attitude. Kindness and giving and making exceptions is all well and good, until it apparently happens in our own backyards, with kids we know (either by sight or personally) and their families. THEN it’s every man for himself. And this makes me sad, because ALL of these kids are OUR kids.