Get Schooled

By tom

August 11, 2005 02:05 PM | Link to this

I think too much time, effort and money is being spent on educating immigrants, whether legal or not, in their native languages. This is shifting the emphasis in schools from actually educating to accomodating.
The loopholes in state laws, whether educational or not, are encouraging more and more illegal immigrants to move here. Instead of these individuals learning our language, customs, culture etc-we are far too accomodating and allowing things to happen the way they have/are.

By Renee

August 11, 2005 02:34 PM | Link to this

Yes I have to believe that to much time and money is going into accomodating these immigrants. I believe they have a right to an education but they need to be in the same classes that all the other students are in. They should be required to take English language and then all their classes need to be taught in English as well. Instead of putting money into more teachers who speak spanish so that they can offer classes for the spanish speakers in spanish our money would be better spent on other programs. We are lacking a foreign language program in the elementary schools. Elementary age is the fundamental time to learn another language. Many other countries require their students to learn another language and yet we are trying to get rid of foreign language. With the internet age there is so much international business that happens, it is just a shame that we do not want to become a key player in that since we do not see foreign language as important. Or money that will go to underfunded schools so that they can afford better equipment and a higher salary to teachers so they will be more willing to teach. But instead of that we are throwing our money in the trash can by bowing down to these immigrants, which by the way they know that we do. Which in turn is making the area more run-down and that makes it more like their homeland which they ran from to begin with. So to make them better people they should be learning English which everyone knows learning more that one language helps shape better character.

By Amazed (Independent Woman)

August 11, 2005 02:42 PM | Link to this

Immigration only becomes a problem, when the “influx� is what the majority consider, undesirables. I have watched many of the non-English speaking children blossom over the past 4 years and they “do� choose to learn the language. Many of the parents have learned from their children as well. The children often act as translators for the parents.

I am a taxpayer and a parent, so I understand the cost of educating children. Many of the Non-English speaking children will “Never� return to live in their native countries. So, educating them is the best thing to do, if you want your community to thrive. The best thing to do would be to change the system so that their parents can participate in the cost of educating their kids.

Yes, the test scores are down. But, I have seen the benefits “with my child� of having children from other countries in her class. My daughter is learning to speak Spanish and a few African languages. Many of these children will succeed further than some of our children, because they can speak multiple languages. The business world has changed and we are now extending our “business to business� relationships to include many other countries.

So, stop complaining and grow up people – just think where you would be, had the Indians created “immigration laws� when Columbus arrived.

By John Martin

August 11, 2005 02:59 PM | Link to this

American children are spending to much time learning another language instead of concentrating on their own studies. If any money is to be spent on mass assimilation, it should be done outside the school districts so that American students can have the proper education that they are entitled to. American families should not have to be burdened with bilingual education, and those costs should be bore at least in part by those communities that foster uncontrolled illegal immigration. This is one of the main reasons why our children are not doing well in school, and why it is so important that we end bilingual education as soon as possible.

By Dan

August 11, 2005 03:01 PM | Link to this

Amazed You make a number of very good points and I agree with most of it. I suggest that you consider this slight twist. Immigration is a problem primarily when the immigrants are undesirable. People who fit your description of immigrants are desirable. There are some who complain simply because they speak a diff language or are a diff color. But most are complaining of people not pulling their weight, and the only way to get that to happen is legalize them if they earn it or send them back. And BTW most of the population of this country are decendent from people who arrived after immigration laws were already in place

By Dan

August 11, 2005 03:04 PM | Link to this

Amazed You make a number of very good points and I agree with most of it. I suggest that you consider this slight twist. Immigration is a problem primarily when the immigrants are undesirable. People who fit your description of immigrants are desirable. There are some who complain simply because they speak a diff language or are a diff color. But most are complaining of people not pulling their weight, and the only way to get that to happen is legalize them if they earn it or send them back. And BTW most of the population of this country are decendent from people who arrived after immigration laws were already in place and had to wait there turn and earn the right to benefit from our society and pass that on to their children, they just expect others to pay the same price. The only way to appreciate something is to earn it. (Probably why a lot of the immigrants, the desirable ones, work so much harder than the people born here)

By Peter

August 11, 2005 03:06 PM | Link to this

“I believe they have a right to an education but they need to be in the same classes that all the other students are in”

I totally disagree. They have no right to anything in this country if they did not go through the proper channles to enter this country. Case closed. Next question.

By Marsha

August 11, 2005 03:12 PM | Link to this

“Immigration is a problem primarily when the immigrants are undesirable”

Not true. We are not talking about immigrations….we are talking about people entering this country uninvited and illegally. Period.

If any wants to immigrate …..fine…then immigrate. But do not sneak over here in the middle of the night in the trunk of a car.

By Dale

August 11, 2005 03:17 PM | Link to this

If anyone wants to see what illegales will do to a school system…just go to Dalton.

Ten years ago the city school system had 12% hispanic. Most of these children could speak a little English. Now, just ten years later, the city schools are 90%…yes, 90% hispanic and hardly any of the children can speak English…or even try to. There are so many hispanics in Dalton that they no longer desire or have to speak English. Not one single measure of quality living has not gone down. Crime is way up, streets are filthy, property values are down.

GO HOME.

By T. R.

August 11, 2005 03:24 PM | Link to this

As a child I lived in Arizona, and the non english students were required to attend “english academy” and learn english prior to entering mainstream school. If I remember correctly (been 20 years) there was one EA per district, and kids usually spent about one year there before being released into mainstream classes.

The program made it easier on both the student and the teachers. Most children of illegal immigrants are BORN HERE - it’s their parents, not them who are illegal.

Poverty and lack of education breed crime - it only hurts society when we do not provide education to these children.

By John Martin

August 11, 2005 03:27 PM | Link to this

Dale: What was the draw to Dalton, chicken factory, slaughterhouse, construction? Do you know who those employers are that hire illegal labor?

By Dave

August 11, 2005 03:41 PM | Link to this

There is an issue not mentioned here, that I can see. When a school system has to expand to accomodate a large number of immigrants, it costs a lot of money. Taxpayers bear this burden. The problem is, in the case of so many of these immigrants, manly the illegal immigrants, they do not pay property tax. And with the remarkbly high density with which so many of these immigrants pack into rental housing (detilaed in other AJC stories) the person who IS paying the property tax is often not paying anywhere near the actual cost of the students living in their rented home.

It costs MONEY to educate the children of illegal immigrants, and quite often, the parents participate in an underground, cash-only economy. It’s not the fault of the children…they should receive an education, but the parents do need to be held responsible for the cost of educating their children.

By William

August 11, 2005 03:42 PM | Link to this

Denying education to any children in our society damages America. I read recently where a straight student who been offered a place a MIT, was unable to go because he/his parents were illegal. He is noe working in a video store. That’s bad for America. Our economy, argiculture especially, is dependent on cheap Hispanic labor. Too much of our immigration policy is based on bigotry. We are creating an underclass with all the attendant problems that produces.

By David

August 11, 2005 03:45 PM | Link to this

My take:

Taxpayers are paying for the education of the nation’s children. I believe we need to check birth certificates/naturalization papers/green cards before a child can go to school. If the child has proof of citizenship but doesn’t speak English, the child should be placed in a class that teaches English to non-native speakers - ONLY. When the child can read, write, and speak English on grade level, then they can be “mainstreamed” into the classroom. The fact that it might require three years of work to get a 12 year old child to the point they can speak English like an American 12 year old and that forces them to have to graduate high school when they are 20 is just tough. You know, life ain’t easy. If they wanted it easy, they could have stayed in their native country. Anything else, reduces the quality of the education available to the rest of the nation’s children.

Additionally, this would help us identify illegals. When the truant officer sees children arround town when they’re supposed to be in school, they can find out these kids aren’t hear legally, and we can deport them and their parents.

I have no problem with immigration. ThOSE PEOPLE HAVE dotted “I’s� and crossed “t’s.� They’re taxpaying members of our society. WELCOME!

As far a multilingual education, there is a simple reason that European people speak at least two languages. Their countries are about the size of our states, are right next to each another, and speak different languages! If Alabamanians (If that’s a word?) spoke a different language, we would have to learn it to communicate with them. The same holds true for Florida and South Carolina. Fortunately, all of our states speak the same language. We don’t need to speak French or Spanish or whatever - unless Alabama, South Carolina, or Florida decides to change their language to Pomeranian or some such language. If a Frenchman wants to speak to us, they can learn our language. This is not OUR problem.

By Amazed (Independent Woman)

August 11, 2005 04:00 PM | Link to this

The laws can change so that taxpayers do not have to cover the cost of educating these kids. It doesn’t matter how they came into this country, they are here and many were born here. One problem may be the cost of educating kids from other countries, but the biggest concern today is fear of other people unlike your self. Many will tolerate a few, but when you see them in droves you get scared.

Sometimes we are colorblind to people who look like “US”, who are just as undesirable. We look at people from other countries or backgrounds “who commit crimesâ€? as undesirables and we are ready to throw the book at them. We classify them into groups, based upon their nationality or skin color and label them all “undesirablesâ€?. Then we dare say that they can only stay, if they fit into “my boxâ€?. But, we want to look into the problem when one of our “Desirableâ€? kids decides to shoot up a school and then place the blame on TV, video games, comic books, music, videos, etc……….

I understand the concern for better schools, neighborhoods, obeying the laws, the economy, etc… But, I know that if we put some effort into working together with people from other backgrounds, things can improve. When you start to shut the door, that’s when the problems will increase.

By jennifer

August 11, 2005 04:02 PM | Link to this

The school system my children attend offers English courses to children who do not know how to speak English so they will learn and be able to adapt.

By NotMyProblem

August 11, 2005 04:10 PM | Link to this

There should be absolutely no classes taught in spanish, and all children in American public schools should be required to speak English fluently, and take English-only classes. It is VITAL that people who come here and don’t speak the language learn the language immediately, as well as do their best to assimilate to the kind of society we have here. No more of these “little mexico” neighborhoods where their old culture is simply relocated. If you want to see what happens to a country when you allow people to come in and simply bring their own culture, rather than adopting to the culture that’s there, take a look at England and the bombers there. Multiculturalism has destroyed not only England but is very close to destroying the culture in Holland as well. If you want to come to America, fine. Come here legally and come here knowing that YOU must adjust to OUR way of life, not the other way around.

By jennifer

August 11, 2005 04:17 PM | Link to this

There are people who are citizens of the US, who were born and raised here, who are just as dirty as the people you are describing. They clutter up their trailer parks with their kid’s toys, cars without wheels, and clothes on the line for weeks on end.

I have no problem with people coming here as long as they do it legally. I understand they just want a better life for themselves and for their families.

I also think we should welcome learning another language since we are ignorant of other languages.

By jennifer

August 11, 2005 04:19 PM | Link to this

Btw, I’m glad my children are being taught Spanish in school. They started learning it in kindergarten.

By Mary

August 11, 2005 04:27 PM | Link to this

The problem with most illegals in this country is that they have no desire to become Americans. They have no desire to learn English. Why should they when we are forced to accommodate them at every turn? It angers most Americans to struggle themselves to pay bills, buy food, and pay medical bills when those who are here breaking the law (yep, it’s a crime!) pay no medical bills (when was the last time you went to the Dr and they didn’t ask for your insurance card before they would look at you?), they are given food stamps that a truly deserving American can’t get, and pay no taxes. Why is the IRS not demanding its share from these people? Don’t you think if one of us was making thousands a year and not coughing it up they would manage to find us? I hear people say “this is a nation of immigrants�, well, people, sometimes you’ve just got to say we’re all full, check back with us. Until we get a handle on immigration we are doomed to fail. If those in third world countries want a better life do what farmers in this country did a little more than 200 years ago. Seemed to work for them.

By W awrd

August 11, 2005 04:34 PM | Link to this

of course it will be a big issue. Immigration is wht this country is predicated upon. Each ethnic group adds a little spice to the mix and is allowed to worship as they please and while retain as much of their own heritage as they want.

That said, the only thing that binds us all together is our language. If they want their children schooled in their native language let them return home to do this. No greencard no work, no taxes no medicaid, no English no schooling. It’s a simple formula.

By Whitey

August 11, 2005 04:42 PM | Link to this

The illegals are ruining this country. We are being FORCED to make these kind of decisions because our lame government won’t tighten our borders.

By Iteach

August 11, 2005 04:43 PM | Link to this

PLEASE EDUCATE YOURSELVES. I have only seen one response that makes since and does not come from complete misinformation. ESOL the classes for those non-english speaking students is taught in ENGLISH. The instructors simply try assit the students learn while they are in the process of learning english.

When I first started teaching I was at a middle school where the ESOL instructor did speak some spanish but she had students that were Japanese, Chinese, South African, Hispanic, and West African. Communication was to say the least very interesting. By the end of the year the students were progressing quite nicely. During that year the teacher’s focus was on Mathematics, with assistance students learned the structure of english grama much the same as “americans” (few can claim to be Native americans) learn french or spanish.

The ESOL students were of value to the school because the other students had to realize that we are a global society.

By Kathy

August 11, 2005 04:46 PM | Link to this

All non-English speaking children need to attend a separate “academy” until they are able to integrate into our schools. Period. If they do not progress, they remain in the “academy”. If I wanted to go to France to live right now, I could not because I do not speak French. They do not have the problem we do.

By Donald

August 11, 2005 04:48 PM | Link to this

All of you deluded open borders advocates need to pay attention: Wall Street Journal Reporter John Fund notes in his recent book on election fraud in the United States that at least 8 of the 19 9/11 terrorists were illegally registered to vote in Virginia and Florida. Illegal immigration is a national security issue. Along the US-Mexican border, the Border Patrol has apprehended increasing numbers of OTM’s (Other-than-Mexicans), many of whom are undoubtedly hostile to this country and its citizens. To those of you who are enamored with your child’s learning Spanish from Kindergarten classmates, you need to go buy a Spanish CD instead. The contempt of the corrupt Mexican government and the millions of illegals from Mexico for American law is unacceptable. The rule of law is an essential part of the American constitutional system. The desire of an illegal to enjoy the benefits of the United States without going through the legal process should never trump proper enforcement of existing laws.

By Gman

August 11, 2005 04:49 PM | Link to this

I’ve been saying for years… ENGLISH is the national language of the US. Not Italian, German, Franch, Spanish, Yiddish, etc…

I wholeheartedly say that if you intend of living here, you need to hablas el lenguaje!

By Sarah

August 11, 2005 04:51 PM | Link to this

This whole issue frustrates me so much. Why does the word “illegal” in the phrase “illegal immigrant” not mean the same as it does in any other context? I understand all the nuances - children have no choice where they are born, where their parents take them, etc - but it all boils down to that one word. The adults came here illegally. They live here illegally. They work here illegally. And yet they are rewarded for their lawbreaking, and hearts bleed all over the country for their trials! Our government will not address the problem by deporting these lawbreakers who are here illegally, and our the schools are sinking under the weight of the federal requirement to educate children who should never be here. I throw my hands up in the air …

By Erni Grace

August 11, 2005 04:54 PM | Link to this

The myths surrounding illegal aliens (1) they pay taxes like others. Truth: how can they pay taxes if they don’t have legal paper work? The IRS and Workers Comp are getting cheated out of monies by companies employing illegals. (2) they don’t collect welfare Truth: true, they don’t until the females start having children here and are put on welfare then the whole family benefits from it (3)they do not seek medical help Truth: they do at the emergency rooms which are going bankrupt because they do not pay their bill (4)The children of illegals attend school Truth: they do but once they reach 16 years of age most are requested by their parents to quit school and go to work to help support their large family. The illegals coming here are not coming to be educated. They are coming to make money to send to their country of origin to help support their poor large families. After sending part or half of their monies they then rely on the American taxpayer to subsidize their housing, food, and their free medical which American taxpayers are already having a hard time themselves to provide for their own. A legal immigrant is required to show proof that they have a profession or a trade and can afford to support their family without government assistance. The legal immigrant is sent to be checked for communicable diseases and are quarantined if found to have any. The legal immigrant has to show proof that they know and understand the English language. None of these apply to the illegal who crosses the border into this country and have been known to be carrying diseases that have long been eradicated in this country. They do not seek help immediately yet they send their children to school where they come in contact with other children who may becomes infected. Now what part of illegal does one not understand? Two of my grown children have had their social security number stolen and one of those thieves was and probably still is drawing disability benefits and the other is using the number to work. But don’t bother asking Social Security Administration for help because their answer, as I was told, is to give my children a new number they’ve had since they were little and allow the thief to keep the one they stole. That’s the kind of government help American taxpayers get. The old parents are brought in and signed up for SSI while never contributing to it but if you are an American you may have to divulge every personal thing about you just as my mother did after working many years as an engine mechanic and needed some help at the age of 90 still getting by on her social security check of $320 a month. And the companies you call don’t ask if you want the call in Spanish they want to know if you want in English. Big joke. I grew up in a border town and I am of Mexican descent and this is my own observation and opinion.

By John Martin

August 11, 2005 04:55 PM | Link to this

Teaching children another language is not going to help them become doctors, engineers or environmentalist. We all need to be on the same page and speak the same language to learn and to get along. After our children have been educated, allow them to opportunity to decide what other languages they wish to speak instead of having it forced down their throats. American children need to learn the basics first taught in their own language.

By William

August 11, 2005 05:04 PM | Link to this

“Most children of illegal immigrants are BORN HERE - it’s their parents, not them who are illegal.”

While technically that is correct…..we need to change our laws….if your parents are here illegally then you are not a citizen of the US just because you were downloaded here.

By Dan

August 11, 2005 05:09 PM | Link to this

Amazed How can laws change so taxpayers don’t pay? Only if every one pays there own tuition. If a school spends 7K a year on a child. The tax payers pay it period, whether it is local state or federal. Even donations since they are tax deductable eventually wind up coming out of the tax payer kitty.
Any family who pays less thatn 7K x the number of children is effectively getting welfare. you can call it what you want, you can argue the merits and drawbacks but it is what it is and people have to realize that cost and then determine if the benefit outweighs that cost. I say make them legal so they can pay there share or send them back.

By Lee

August 11, 2005 05:20 PM | Link to this

What part of ILLEGAL do you not understand. They are breaking the law. They should be dealt with accordingly. We should not reward them with a free education, free healthcare, welfare, etc. etc. I want my government to enforce the laws and deport these people.

What usually happens, especially in the smaller school systems, is that the illegal alien child is put into a normal classroom. The teacher spends an inordinate amount of time working with this child just to get them through the most rudimentary lesson. All the while, the rest of the class is sitting idly by being bored not learning anything. Tuberculosis, which had once been eradicated in this country is now making a comeback — directly attributable to illegal aliens not going through the health screen process. Studies have shown the cost of illegal aliens in Billions of dollars.

What is happening in Dalton is happening in communities all across America. The city schools are overwhelmed with illegals. Parents are pulling their kids out. Teachers are leaving.

But we can feel good that little Jose’ is getting a good education. Besides, in a few years, our spineless politicians will mete out another Amnesty plan and reward their illegal behavior once again.

By Tara

August 12, 2005 08:44 AM | Link to this

I think that if you are an illegal immigrant then you should not be allowed to partake of the resources that you have not contributed to. It is sad that my 30+ generation may not have any social security benefits when we reach retirement age due to the fact that so many people who have not contributed to the program are allowed to withdraw from it. The same goes with education. We the working class of taxpayers are footing the bill for illegal immigrants to sit side by side in the classrooms with our children and use resources that their parents have not contributed to. If illegal immigrant want to have access to the same resouces as legal citizens, then let them become legalized citizens and pay taxes just like the rest of us so that they make a equal contribution to these programs rather than deplete resources that they have invested in. Otherwise, they can enroll their children in private learing establishments and pay the price for their childrens education and let the taxpayers children receive the benefits that their parents tax dollars have invested in over the years.

By Concerned American

August 12, 2005 08:55 AM | Link to this

What amazes me is that when you go to France or Germany or whereever, you must be able to speak/read their language in order to navigate. I lived in Miami for a year (it was all I could handle) and while waiting to get my driver’s licence, I was greeted by the state patrol officer in Spanish … NOT ENGLISH. When I was getting my picture taken, the driver’s test was being given in 13 … read ‘em 13 languages. I kid you not, there was a woman who spoke swahili, and it was not an option, so they translated it to Fench for her…yes, spoken translation since she could not READ French. Now, if that is not an indication of the slippery slope we are on, I don’t know what is.

There is also a large furniture maker in Miami, who upon making his 1st Million dollars, was interviewed by the Miami Herald. His response was, “See I made all this money and I still don’t speak any English.”

Talk all you want about how children should be educated no matter what, but I would MUCH prefer to load them all on a bus and ship them back to where they came from. Let them bust hump to make their country better, not bring ours down to their level.

By Robert

August 12, 2005 09:22 AM | Link to this

As a tax paying citizen and as a high school teacher, I prefer not to get into the politics of immigration. However, all students educated in the US should be required to learn English. And, if immigrant students attend our public schools, then immigrant parents should pay taxes.

Illegal immigrants do not pay taxes (income or property) and so they do not pay for public education. Basically, the current system makes illegal immigrant students drain from the students whose parents are paying money into the system. This needs to change. I have no problem with educating the illegal immigrant students if they paid money into the system.

By dgr

August 12, 2005 09:36 AM | Link to this

I think the true problem here, is economics. Immigrants are willing to accept jobs that most people feel is beneath them and this is why businesses appreciate immigrant labor whether it is legal or illegal. Then we have the shady businessmen who want illegals so they can pay them less wages and basically make them third world slave labor. That is wrong, period. As far as education, I think the English Academy is a great idea. I have students in my class that only speak Spanish, so I have to depend on my limited Spanish skills or a student who speaks both. Lets not even get into trying to get the parents in for a conference - they don’t speak English. How can I tell them that their child needs help, if I’m depending on the child to translate? This situation is a mess, and we need some politicians that have a backbone to straighten things out.

By Denise

August 12, 2005 09:40 AM | Link to this

I am a United States citizen, single, female, no children. I pay a high percentage of taxes. I do not have a problem with anyone coming to this country “legally”, abiding by the law and paying taxes as I do. But we all know that there are more illegal immigrants living here than there are legal. What does this mean? Higher taxes to educate more children and to support more social services. The truth is there are more illegal immigrants receiving social benefits than anyone else (and I am not focusing on any one group of people). Is this fair? Those tax benefits are coming from the tax payers contribution. That’s the problem I have. If everyone pays taxes, then I think there would be a balance. But when you have a small percentage paying taxes, which in turn is used to take care of the masses…that’s a huge problem. And we want to scoff at a tax break for the wealthy…come on.

By young lady

August 12, 2005 09:52 AM | Link to this

I believe that every child has a right to an education with he or she is illegal or not. My problem is that everyone here talks bad about illegal imigrants but what have they actually done wrong if at all cross an imaginary line to try and give their families a better life…is that what they have done wrong because i can guarentee you that if all of you put yourself in their shoes you would understand..many of you dont because you were born with money and didnt need to work twice as hard to get what you wanted..yes crime is an issue and especailly because of this because you have kids that are brought here by their parents without a choice to live a better life and when they try to actually make things right you get “people” like these at close all doors on you because of their status so what else is their for them to do…their are plenty of imigrants who try really hard to be sucessful..I dont hear about any of them shooting up schools…and yes there are immigrants that pay taxes…and thanks to them our econmy has gone up and believe me them do a lot of the work that a lot of americans wouldnt do

By KCB

August 12, 2005 10:39 AM | Link to this

The influx into this country of illegal entrants from Mexican, Central and South American bear a inordinately heavy burden on our country’s already constrained infrastructure. Name the pressure point – healthcare, criminal justice, or education – the merits of an illegal aliens and their low cost (read: tax evading) labor do not even come close to mitigating the inordinate toll these people take on our country’s system. Further, to those who point out the benefits of having a diverse society or, for the purpose of this discussion, believe that American children learning Spanish as a second language in elementary school is akin to European or Asian schoolchildren learning English, please help me understand what I or the rest of the country gains. There are 21 countries whose primary language is Spanish as well as several others where it is a secondary or tertiary language. This makes Spanish the world’s fourth most commonly spoken language. Primary Spanish-language countries, however, are largely located in Central and South America. The combined Gross Domestic Product (GDP) of these 21 countries totals just $3.67 trillion, or less than one-third that of the U.S., which stands at $11.75 trillion. So is it the contention that we as a nation stand to benefit economically by forcing our kids and ourselves to learn Spanish? The answer in my view is a resounding no. More important, the average literacy rate for those over the age of 15 in the U.S. is 97%. Looking at the same group of 21 countries, the average literacy rate is just 91.8%. Focusing on those countries most apt to “export� their citizens to the U.S. (thereby excluding Spain and its 40 million inhabitants) this number drops to 91.0%. Again, I have trouble seeing a compelling reason to learn the language or embrace the culture of a group of people who value education less than I. Further, I don’t believe it is a stretch to think that those crossing our borders illegally hold their Masters and PhDs, much less a high school education. Why do we think they will instill educational values into their own children if they can’t do it for themselves? And to think, our educational system and our tax dollars are going to pay for this exercise in futility for years to come.

By Akeya

August 12, 2005 10:47 AM | Link to this

I have a few issues with some of the posts here, and some things to add:

My first issue is that many of you assume that all illegal immigrants are Hispanic, namely Mexican. While it is true that a majority of illegal immigrants are of Hispanic descent, let us not ignore those coming from European countries, island nations, and other areas. I agree that children should be taught English before they are to attend school. We can think of it as the “pre-K” of the Language Arts class. While this may not completely eradicate the problem of spending beaucoups of money on ESOl teachers and the like, it may decrease the funding in these areas. Have the parents pay the “tuition” at an English learning academy. As far as government benefits, the CHILDREN of illegal immigrants are the ones eligible for things like Food Stamps, TANF, Medicaid, etc. If you have a problem with this you need to write to your congresspersons. The GOVERNMENT is responsible for regulating these things. We keep talking about the illegals and what they are doing. It’s the government’s fault for enabling not only illegal immigrants, but lazy, shiftless Americans as well. If you have a problem, as the government why the child of an illegal immigrant is eligible for Food Stamps while the child of an American citizen is not, although the children’s parents both earn the same amount of money and have similar situations. It’s because most government programs only count a PORTION of what illegal immigrants earn. This makes their children eligible for benefits that the children of American citizens are not eligible for. Many illegal immigrants are paying taxes on their wages and paying into the social security program. Although they are paying into that program they will not be able to reap the benefits of what they put into it. Why? Because they are using fake socials.

The truth is that we our government is spending an enormous amount of money on bilingual education and trying to educate, in general the influx of illegal immigrants and their children. One thing I find interesting, you can learn English many places for FREE. When was the last time you found a free Spanish, French, or Japanese class?

By Concerned Citizen

August 12, 2005 10:50 AM | Link to this

What kills me is that everybody can complain about it or whatever but we are the melting pot as they call it. You can come to America and live well and do well, so that’s why they do what come here illegally. The truth of the matter is if they are going to here and make a life for themselves they have to learn to speak the language. I grew up in New York on Long Island but it wasn’t like it is here. We had a couple of classes for the spanish kids that transitioned them into our classes but they didn;t spend their whole time in one class only speaking spanish.

So when I first moved down here I thought it was weird that some of the kids could speak english and the parents can’t. Where I lived they had these classes (that I sure they have down here) whether you are illegal or legal you could take these classes to help you speak english and it was for all ages of hispanics or any nationality. I think we should stop accomodating them and have them learn the language. It’s just like if I got to another country how will I communicate with them without knowing at least some of the language. Common people. I’m all for them coming here I just think they should learn the language. Today I took my daughter to school and there where hispanic parents there with their child and the teacher is trying to explain to them that their child will come to school all week and be home on the weekend but was having a hard time. Just so their kids can get a better education they should learn the language.

By SnottyNozeBrat

August 12, 2005 10:51 AM | Link to this

Young Lady,

You are out of touch with the economy. It has not gone up, it is barely stablized. Things are not what they once were here, and America isn’t an endless source of income. To make a statement that we didn’t work hard to attain what we have, leads me to believe someone, daddy? pays your bills, so you are looking at the situation with your heart, and the problem is economics.

Illegal immigrants will bankrupt the medicaid system. Yes, the babies are born here are “American” thats why they are swarming in them. At MY EXPENSE. I hadn’t had health insurance myself or for my children for 14 years, yet my taxes pay for their medical care. I’m truly angry about that. I have a legal right to be.

Dekalb county is a shocking violent place to be. The majority of the illegal immigrants move into areas subsudized by mass transit. They are moving out where I live now. Do I care what color they are? Maybe that sells papers - are you listening AJC???

I don’t. I do care, that 15 people moved into a two bedroom apartment. There were so many men coming and going from that apartment, I sent my daugther to live with her father. Do I care what color they are? They don’t speak english. They don’t try to assimilate, because they are making a bang-up living dealing drugs to rich white kids. They could care less if I walked out of my apartment while they were in the middle of a drug deal. I lived across the street from Kennesaw College.

I really don’t care about their color, hon. Or their “rights”. I can assure you they don’t care about your “rights” either. The drugs make their living and the violence will take over here as it has done in other parts of atlanta.

Please avoid bleeding heart ideas if you want to be able to go to the grocery store without being robbed.

Tell Daddy thanks for paying taxes so you could be online and educated and chastising all of us hard hearted adults - all of us privileged people who didn’t have to work for what we have. Actually run that reasoning by your parents, I’d like to hear their take on it.

By Irish,Scottish,German and who knows

August 12, 2005 11:11 AM | Link to this

Most of America is made up of Irish, Scottish, Italian and German immigrant families not to mention the ones I left out. I think it was in middle school when we learned about these people crossing the great seas to be here in America. It caused many problems and cities were split - Irish on one side Italians on the other - The ENGLISH who wanted them all gone! Now if you ask someone about heritage they will say ” I’m Irish, German and I think I have some Scott in me”. There is always two or three PARTS OF HERITAGE in the mix of one American.

I imagine the Mexicans are fighting the same battle that was once fought before years ago on our land. I do think that they SHOULD PAY TAXES and SPEAK ENGLISH like the rest of us here. You want to be an American then act like one.

The true AMERICANS are the INDIANS and look at what our immigration did to those peace, loving AMERICANS.

By SnottyNozeBrat

August 12, 2005 11:13 AM | Link to this

dear concerned citizen,

there was a time when people assimilated and became productive contributers to society. They also came here, mostly under the color of law. But allowing the counties to “accomodate cultural differences” will marginilize the new comers. Or you will strangle the taxpayers accomodating no child left behind, so we must have school in how many different languages??

It will lock them into low paying jobs with no future, or dealing if they don’t have an education.

No we don’t need communities crawling with uneducated, poor, people of any kind. Those breaking the law or homegrown. But then, the homegrown, do they not choose no education now because gangsta is their perferred culture?

So that leaves home owners to pay for all school systems, legal united states citizens and those breaking the law.

Definately need a new plan.

By SnottyNozeBrat

August 12, 2005 11:20 AM | Link to this

To: By Irish,Scottish,German and who knows

Hon, Indians peace loving Americans?

Yes ya’ll stole our land - slaughtered our people.

But we were a VIOLENT society preying on one another. Much like this.

The English hated the Irish, who hated the Germans who hated the Italians.

The Sioux hated the Shawnee, who fought the…

The Iroquois fought the Ojibwa….

it doesn’t get much more violent than Indian tribes at the time of the european takeover. Women? Slaves.

Please hit some history books printed before revisionist history came to being.

The Sioux hated the Shawnee, who fought the…

The Iraquoi fought the….

it doesn’t get much more violent than indian tribes then. Women? Slaves.

Please hit some history books printed before revisionist history came to being.

By TLB

August 12, 2005 11:28 AM | Link to this

The Common Law states that 1. A person will do what he agrees to do. 2. No person will ENCROACH on another person or his property. Those coming over the border ILLEGALLY are certainly breaking the second rule of common law. We as taxpaying Americans are being trampled on. I wonder if the Fair Tax (abolishing the income tax and all pay 23% sales tax) would solve some of the unfairness in paying for education in America. I’m not sure how it handles property taxes, but it may be a solution.

By SnottyNozeBrat

August 12, 2005 11:31 AM | Link to this

The solution to the major problem,

by arguing we can’t repair the borders or have people enter decently and in order and paying taxes with real paperwork, not collecting with fake paperwork.

But parents who want their kids educated - renters, illegals, and normal non-school tax payers-swamping our system and denigrating an already difficult situation, I’m sure most would be happy to contribute, it is true some came here to contribute and build their lives and it is what they want. Those that aren’t and their poor kids getting left out, are already going to get left out.

Assess their money and take their money and make them pay. Again, most will willingly and we can stop complaining.

In the hospitals that are going broke over this as well.

By Educated Immigrant

August 12, 2005 11:32 AM | Link to this

What a heated discussion. First, there is no official language of the U.S.. Enlgish is not it. With the population trend as it is, perhaps we should make Spanish the primary language.

Second, as long as our economy is strong, illegal immigrants will come over the border. I presume most illegal immigrants want to stay here, and not go back (why would they? this is a great country). The best we can do is regulate the influx of workers, and tax their wages, and require the employers to comply with labor laws. The cost of schooling and health care will be somewhat defrayed by their contribution. This is what the president suggests. It is somewhat sensible, because, I work in law enforcement, and believe me, securing the border (especially the Mexican border) is very difficult. Might as well make some money off of them. The problem with the president’s plan, however, is that we need to crack down on employers violate the labor laws. Without the latter part, temporary work visas are a bad idea.

Frankly, I can’t believe the unions are not taking note of this issue. Perhaps they are too busy fighting about what to do with their union dues. Instead they are marching with Jesse Jackson, who advocates more rights to illegal immigrant workers who are taking union jobs away. The irony.

Lastly, this is an education blog, so please learn the difference between “to” and “too” and “e”mmigrate and “i”mmigrate before improperly using them. Woe is me to Georgia’s public secondary schools. ;P

By oldteacher

August 12, 2005 12:15 PM | Link to this

In the school system where I teach, we have a language academy. Here students are taught English before they are mainstreamed. They then go into ESOL classes where they learn even more English.

Most of these kids are American citizens, but their parents are not.

By Irish,Scottish,German and who knows

August 12, 2005 01:49 PM | Link to this

SnottyNozeBrat, BABYDOLL, DEAR, HON - You just repeated what I had already wrote. You break out the history books and don’t forget the English books too.

“The Sioux hated the Shawnee, who fought the… The Iroquois fought the Ojibwa…. “

We all KNOW that the Indians fought each other, for crying out loud….PUHLEEZZZE! Thanks for pointing out the obvious. I was just saying that the Indians are the TRUE AMERICANS!

DID YOU KNOW THAT THERE ARE 22 MILLION people in the United States who are of Scots-Irish descent, ANOTHER 35 MILLION people in the United States who are of Italian Descent, many of whom only know their heritage through their surname. Lets not forget all the other descents in our country.

My point was that the MOST AMERICANS are from an immigrant family. Mexicans in another 20years will blend in with the rest of the people who make up America - WE ARE A NATION OF IMMIGRANTS. An ENORMOUS MELTING POT!

Again I feel the Mexicans need to PAY TAXES AND SPEAK ENGLISH before we give them American resources. I don’t think they should take our children’s places in schools and colleges if they are ALIENS to this country.

By Goverment Schools

August 12, 2005 02:18 PM | Link to this

Educated Immigrant - LOL

“U.S..” - Is a fragment in a sentence.

“Enlgish is not it”

LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL lol lol lol lol lol teehehehehehehehe HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

I think you meant ENGLISH?? Maybe I’m wrong you’re the educated one in the room.

“Blog” Please spare us government school lackeys. I don’t think that we can take the brainpower or knowledge you have to offer.

I could not get past ENLGISH. lol teehehehe. :P

THANKS FOR THE PROPER EDUCATING TODAY!

By SnottyNozeBrat

August 12, 2005 02:30 PM | Link to this

to: and all!

By Irish,Scottish,German and who knows

you proposed that native americans were a “peace loving people”

nothing could be further from the truth.

It is very unlikely this huge influx will assimilate. Mr. Educated Immigrant proposes we make the language of the u.s. spanish. They feel threatened that we suppose they learn english. Allthough according to the US Census site:

In March 2003, the civilian noninstitutionalized population in the United States included 33.5 million foreign born, representing 11.7 percent of the U.S. population. Among the foreign born, 53.3 percent were born in Latin America, 25.0 percent were born in Asia, 13.7 percent were born in Europe, and the remaining 8.0 percent were born in other regions of the world.

11.7 percent. But no, he supposes everyone in the us should now learn spanish.

It will help us all to have one language and to work together that is how the us became strong. But. It is not the pattern. Things have changed.

This does amount to taxation without representation. Perhaps we could start suing the govt for sending illegals to the school house. Or throw something into the harbor. ??

just trying to think out of the box.

Since the hispanic population is having children on our dime, at its present rate of growth will outpace the rest of the population by 2050, (also from the census site) prehaps we will have the last laugh in that all of these kids for whom we so generously pay the medical costs for, will be the ones to pay the medical costs and pensions for the aged us population.

(Also to EducatedImigrant: personal policy that don’t use spell check as it isn’t on most posting boards, so it is forgone. Besides I’m just usally doing this silly stuff in the 2+ hours that I waste of my employers time everyday tending to my own business)

The problem is only how to get them to pay thier share.

Maybe we can get spine implants for our politicians.

By ronnie

August 12, 2005 02:40 PM | Link to this

Illegals: Schools need more Classrooms, more teachers, more supplies, more books, etc… electric bills go up, salaries increase, testing material costs more, accomodations costs more. Also, most get free and reduced lunch (free to them, not us).

Who pays for this, the American taxpayer. We fund their school supplies, the breakfast and lunch, we make them feel welcome, we translate documents in their language, they (again, illegals hot hispanic or any one group, we’re talking illegals)take up spots on pre-k rolls and a legal taxpaying person’s child may be told there are no more slots in pre-k and there can be 10 to 20 on the rolls who are not here legally. Yes, they are taking jobs with false ID’s and taking less money which puts American jobs on the street because they costs more.

What do people not understand? Schools are doing their jobs. They are trying to follow the laws. The laws protect children, legal and not legal and that’s the way it should be. The problem is the border. We’ve got to get it under control or taxpayers will continue to be slammed by ILLEGAL ALIENS milking our country. Go to another country and see if they educate your children and make the accomodations we do here in the US and see if they feed and educate your children for free.

By Woodie

August 12, 2005 02:45 PM | Link to this

It shouldn’t be that hard to identify an illegal alien trying to enter the school system. Apparently the hole in the dam is so huge, we can’t do even the simplest thing to slow it down. Our quality of life has suffered from the influx of illegals and criminals from other countries. Anyone doesn’t see that is probably an illegal alien.

By Karen Armsby

August 12, 2005 03:22 PM | Link to this

My thoughts: These illegals are not immigrating to the U.S., they are INVADING our country with instructions how to do it, encouragement, and the blessing of their worthless president Vincente Fox.

1.The best case scenario is we make our government enforce the existing immigration laws and we would stop this problem with illegal’s children flooding the schools. The kids may be born in the U.S. but if their parents are here illegally, they should be deported and the Courts should issue orders that these (albiet U.S. born) MINOR children must accompany their parents back to their own country. When the kids reach the age of majority they can apply for their US passport under the dual citizenship. Let their parents native country educate them, it’s not our duty!

By LatinoATL

August 12, 2005 03:29 PM | Link to this

I’m wondering which schools are the ones teaching classes in a ‘menu’ of languages. Coming from Puerto Rico at 14 (yes, legally since Puertoricans are citizens) and being in the <1% minority in my school, I had to take the classes that were offered and the school district would provide an ESOL instructor for the whole county that would see us once a week. I graduated high school and moved on to college but it was very hard to learn the language with what was available. It doesn’t mean I wasn’t interested in learning the language.

20+ years later, I work for one of the largest school districts in the city where many Mexicans have settled. I’m not aware of any Spanish-Math, Spanish-Science, Spanish-Anything classes that are offered by any of the schools in our district. We try desperately to find educated professionals who can teach, not so they can teach in Spanish but so that they can be an example and motivate those young kids that they too can become educated professionals. To say that they don’t have a right to be educated is a disgrace for a country that was based on providing the WORLD with the opportunity to live the ‘American Dream’. As someone said earlier, if any of you had been born in the conditions (and lack of opportunities) that most of these people were born in, you would consider taking the risks that these people take.

I’ve met MANY illegal immigrants while in Atlanta and while some abuse the system (and even turn criminal) a higher percentage are hard-working honest people who only want a better life for their families…just like most of your ancestors did 500 or so years ago.

The last point I want to make is that whoever believes that Americans tend to adapt when they move or travel to non-speaking countries may not be aware that, it is a very popular stereo-type that Americans always expect to be catered to. That they won’t learn the language and everyone must speak English to them in order for them to be happy. I know, this doesn’t apply to everyone but I heavily agree. This ‘your in my country, speak our language’ only seems to apply in America.

By Carl

August 12, 2005 03:35 PM | Link to this

I feel that the legal immigrates that have taken the time as well as the effort to learn English should be educated. However, the illegal immigrates should not be allowed to, and no special efforts taken for them, since they choose not to make an effort. Afro-Americans, of the past had to fight and I stress fight to obtain an education, I can not agree with making it easy for illegal immigrates.

By Shyretta

August 12, 2005 03:48 PM | Link to this

I don’t like this immigration business (legal or illegal)it not only hurts our childrens learning it hurt the community as a whole.

By waste of time

August 12, 2005 04:30 PM | Link to this

Seriously does no one have anything better to do! We are talking about people, human beings, people who breathe, eat, drink and just like us. They deserve a life as well as we do, I have you know they work harder than most “Natural born Americans�. Everyone should worry more about themselves – instead of focusing on people who do not stand in our way. They just want freedom like you and me. Grow up people and mind your business, life is too short for so much worrying. I mean damn you wonder why we have heart attacks, strokes and ulcers in the USA.

By LAA

August 12, 2005 04:54 PM | Link to this

We can sit here and complain all day. The real problem is that the government allows this and continues to allow it. If the American people want to complain, complain to the government who has the controll. THey can always close the borders until the current problem is under control. And believe me we if we the american people could get something for nothing we would just as these people are doing.

By Tess

August 12, 2005 04:55 PM | Link to this

I am a legal immigrant. I came to this country because I wanted a better life for myself and my future children. I leanrt English before I came because I couldn’t expect someone to learn MY LANGUAGE to accomodate ME :). I went to college while working full time. Sometimes I wouldn’t have more than 4 hours of sleep - but I made it.I am a US citizen now, married to an American whose ancestors came here 300 years ago and we have a baby! I am SO THANKFUL to this country for a chance of happy, comfortable life, for the things that I could never dream of back home. For freedom that is really exists here. I have never had any kind of assistance from anyone and I have never asked for any preferential treatment - and I made it anyway! And it was all worth it - years of waiting to come to this country, paperwork, sleepless nights, days when I felt that I would just die because I was so dead tired. I am against illegal immigration. It is dangerous - just think of terrorists and criminals who can sneak in. Also I do not think that it is fair to us, immigrants who chose to obey the law - we are being hated by association. I am against bilingual education because it is STUPID to make things easier for people who did not have enough brainpower to realize that if they want to leave in America they better study English (and teach their children). I am against foodstamps and welfare for illegal immigrant’s children - if they cannot afford to feed your own children, you should not have them. People should be responsible for the consequances of their own actions… it’s stupid for the government to act like crutches for stupid, irresponsible individuals and it is destructive to make the ones who DO act responsible to pay the bill of the loosers. PS I do realize that SOMETIMES bad things may happen to good people through no fault of their own and they may need help. But I think they should be assisted by charities and non-profits, not by taxpayers.

By on the border

August 12, 2005 05:37 PM | Link to this

Living on the border town of El Paso, I am at ground zero of the illegal alien problem, that President Bush will not address. While driving into work on I-10 I can see the run down hovels of Juarez, Mexico. Unfortunately the downtown area of El Paso is starting to look like little “Mexico”. Filthy! Like other parts of the country the illegals are not learning the language, nor do they particularly even like the U.S. My solution just annex El Paso, and other cities that have been invaded, because it is no longer the U.S. here anymore.

By Bill

August 15, 2005 09:23 AM | Link to this

**”Catalina said José had followed his older brother, Porfirio, to the United States. Porfirio, who lives in Miami, obtained U.S. residency status last year, Catalina said. José, she said, entered the United States illegally. The brothers lost contact with each other in this country.

These days, José gets around using a walker. He prefers to lie flat on his bed at Crestview, watching Univision, the Spanish-language television station.

Dora Jackson, assistant director of nursing, said José had “come a long way” since his initial injuries. “He doesn’t need to be in a nursing home if he has family who can take care of him,” she said. “All of us here know how much difference a family makes.”

His hospital and nursing home bills, which are being absorbed by the public health system, have topped $350,000.

Catalina asked what the family would need to pay for José’s care. “Absolutamente nada!” â€â€? absolutely nothing â€â€? the interpreter responded for the nursing home officials in the room.”**

Enough said.

By Reed

August 15, 2005 09:31 AM | Link to this

Welcome Tess…..and thank you for doing it right. You are the type person we want in the U.S.

By david

August 15, 2005 11:38 AM | Link to this

Most Mexicans come over here to enjoy part of our culture, the peace and work advantage. They have cut into every free program we have-they work for substandard wages that can’t provide basic qualities of life then freeload on education and health insurance… they drive decent cars and live in decent housing but they leech on us for everything they can get for nothing. SEND THEM ALL HOME….

By Bobb

August 15, 2005 12:47 PM | Link to this

What issue? If you want to immigrate and become a productive citizen, then fine. If you want to enter illegally and benefit from this this country without taking on the obligations of citizenship, then stay home.

By Jeffery

August 15, 2005 01:24 PM | Link to this

I agree with Peter. We shouldn’t give illegal immigrants anything. Deport them back to their country and see if they can get into the USA the legal way. Why should an illegal immigrant have any rights or an education in America?? It’s a waste of taxpayer’s money for them to have a voice in this country.

By LatinoATL

August 22, 2005 02:45 PM | Link to this

If we deport them like you suggest, then who is going to do the work that they currently do. Tell that to their bosses.

You guys don’t realize that in a backwards way, illegal immigration helps the economy. Why do you think the government isn’t more strict about it?

As I’ve said before, would it had been fair send ‘HOME’ all the immigrants back in the day? Especially the ones who made it possible for YOU guys to be here today.

By Brian

August 24, 2005 02:49 PM | Link to this

Well finally a topic i can sink my liberal teeth into. First of all Prez. Bush is in the bed with Prez. Fox via the first ladies hispanic heritage so this problem is defintely not going anywhere. Secondly the GA lawmakers are making it legal for the illegals to get a drivers license so they won’t be afraid to get insurance, actually they want to make it easier for them to get to and from work. This country has no problems with them enteing the work force so why complain when yu have to babysit for a few hours in the name of schooling. Not to mention the cheap labor they provide. I’m sure some of you have taken economics their contribution to the economy can not be measured. Who will build the many houses that are spurring the housing boom. As far as education and paying for it what about the various counties that have too many apartments. These individuals are paying property taxes, you have to educate their kids…..If it’s not one thing it’s another.