Get Schooled

By Donald Howell

June 30, 2005 11:53 AM | Link to this

It is sad when a principal or dean will not support teachers in their charge. Educational integrity is lost. I am a former instructor who left the teaching professional because of similar situations.

By Amy

June 30, 2005 12:08 PM | Link to this

The principal in that case just created a nightmare student for the rest of his school life. The student believes that his actions will not have consequences and will act accordingly. How sad that a parent would think they are helping their child by allowing them to work the system.

By SML

June 30, 2005 12:21 PM | Link to this

In my experience, I think it depends on the individual administrator. My first year of teaching, I had a pretty “busy” group of children, and when a parent called my AP about her concerns with my classroom management, she encouraged the parent to schedule a conference with me first, before she would get involved. Granted, I teach at the elementary level, where children’s manipulative skills are just beginning to flourish…

By Suz

June 30, 2005 12:38 PM | Link to this

I had a principal that let a parent harrass me for SIX months about a lousy notebook check grade, even after the school year was over and the next one began. He was so bad that he eventually hired her to work at the school (with NO certificate), even though three teachers had retired in the two years her child had been there. All three left after having her child in their class and having to deal with the mother. The woman is still at the school, after finally getting a certificate, ON school time, though the prinicpal is gone (he retired, and was then elected the board). The child was even caught having sex in a rest-room and no punishment was given. I don’t pretend to understand the politics of education, I just go in my room and do my job as best I can.

By Iteach

June 30, 2005 12:54 PM | Link to this

As I teacher, I can often see where aministrative support is the crux of a healthy school. First let me clarify support - support a teacher when they are doing their job and support them with assistance when they are lacking. I am often saddened when I see good educators lose their vision and their joy due to administrative reasons.

Most of us come into the teaching profession with a desire to positively shape young minds. Most stay because they want to help more young people dispite the unruly students and unsupportive parents. But, why do good and caring teachers leave? Some leave because of true burn out but most leave because of administrative obstacles.

As teachers strive to educate young minds it becomes mentally draining when we must also deal with leaders who have different agendas. Yes, you see all the administrators come up with great slogans for improvement but behind the scenes they have other concerns that hinder progress.

When an administrator is more concerned with a parent’s or a coach’s desire for higher grades for unperforming students than the education of the student the system has failed. In the Neace case it was time for the principal to educate the parent on the topics of integrity, honesty, and education. I have taught under three principals and two have been excellent. One principal went so far as to personally check the academics of atheletes. He was a former coach that was more interested in developing minds than athletic talent. As he stated at the first falculty meeting I attended - “I will not allow you to give inflated grades because we are getting these young people ready for a tough world.” It is sad to say that after I left the school this fine gentleman was replaced by a “Dr.” (the parents wanted someone with more degrees). As a result the standards were lowered to apease the parents and that was reflected in scores since.

My other great principal had a simple rule for parents - “Come to me first.” She would listen to the parent, meet with you, and then meet back with the parent. Usually that was it. She never mentioned changing the grade just asked for the circumstances involved. I believe that her support of her staff came from two sources - 1) Her last years in the classroom were under the first principal that I mentioned and 2) She had been in the same trench for twenty plus years.

Please, don’t get me wrong about these two educators, they were the first to point out your weaknesses but they both would find you help. In my second year under the second principal there was such a situation of a parent complaining about a grade because “Their child said that I didn’t make sense.” One afternoon the principal came to my room and it seems that she had turned on my rooms monitor while the parent was in the office and the child was in class. The results were that the parent thought that I gave the child too much leeway.

While no two principals will ever be exactly the same, all schools could fair better if principals were selected more for their ability to lead educators than to handle paperwork.

By Lee West

June 30, 2005 12:56 PM | Link to this

It is a pity that our schools are so wrapped up in politics that teachers aren’t allowed to run their classes. Superintendents and board members play politics, support nepotism and conceal the trust so much these days that it is hard to believe anyone anymore. Why can’t they just be honest and do their work out in the public so everyone knows what is going on and can comment on future plans. After all, they are spening our money and denying our children the education they deserve. Teachers want to teach but can’t because administrators tie theri hands.

By C.R.H.

June 30, 2005 01:00 PM | Link to this

Thrown to the wolves? I had it sort of happen, answered back with an unsigned contract at the end of the year and let them “eat their own” while I took a much better (both in pay & conditions) position in another county. Any school that allows abuse, intimidation or otherwise treats its faculty like crap; reaps what it sows. It is nice to teach in a critical needs area! I do feel for people who are left behind out of loyalty or because they would have difficulty finding a position in their subject area within a resonable distance.

By Iteach

June 30, 2005 01:21 PM | Link to this

Excellent statement CHR, I guess I am also lucky to be in a critical needs area being certified for both H.S. Math and Science. I left APS (and took a healthy pay cut)not because of school administration but because of APS’ administration.

I mentioned previously that I served under 3 principals but it was actually 4. I was reassigned to a different school two weeks before the end of 1st semester to replace a young teacher that the other school was wanting to get rid of for poor performance. I fought the reassignment to no avail and ended up in a position where the principal told me what the parents wanted. I had no problem with the parents wanting a good education for their children.

Three weeks after my arrival at the new school and after their first major test I was called in by the principal. It seems that the parents did not like my methods nor their childrens grades. I was told to “don’t try to work them like they’re in college and ease up on the grading.” I returned to my room, emptied my desk and typed my letter of resignation breaking my contract.

Financially it was hard to leave but mentally and professionally it was for the best. When administrators cater too much to parents and are willing to play with a teacher’s life the children will suffer.

By C.R.H.

June 30, 2005 01:42 PM | Link to this

“Thrown to the wolves” and “burn out” : 2 very good reasons teaching has one of the highest rates of attrition of any profession.

By BL

July 1, 2005 09:01 AM | Link to this

There wouldn’t be this problem if there were unions! Man, this state really screwed up….

By Artvetta Y. Jones

July 1, 2005 09:34 AM | Link to this

I was a a full-time substitute teacher for several years and what I observed was unbelievable; that is, parents and students have so much power over the teachers that the teachers hands are tied and the children are failing because there is no parental disicipling in the homes nor the schools. Everybody is afraid of losing their jobs. On two ocassions, I had students to lie on me, but I refused to accept the lies. One lie was told by a parent who was visiting in the school. I had the principal to call the student in and the student informed the principal that the story the parent had given her was not true, but the parent did not apologize. The parent was a trouble maker. God forbid what is happening in our schools. If there was discipline and structure in the homes, there would be discipline and structure in the classrooms. The classrooms are filled with disruptive, distructive, violent and disrepectful behavior. The parents do not respect the authority in the classroom and that same behavior is passed on to the children and the children have no respect for authority in the classroom. As a substitute teacher, I was cursed, kicked and verbally threathened by small elementary students. Teachers are not paid enough to put up with such abuse from the students and parents. Some principals are afraid of losing their jobs if they supported what was right. Our prisons are being filled with this kind of behavior because there is no discipline in the homes nor the schools and it is not getting any better, but there is a solution, but the system is not interested in a solution because a solution may cause a lose of pay. Some of our administrators have the backbone of a jellyfish and want stand for what is right for fear of losing thier paycheck. It’s all about $$$$$$$$$$ and what is politically correct and not what is right. In order for a child to learn the environment has to be a positive classroom setting and there must be parental support; that is, discipine and structure in the homes first. A teacher can not teach when he or she is spending instruction time pleading and begging disruptive students.

By Mike

July 1, 2005 10:07 AM | Link to this

Teachers in some grades have the support of the state when it comes to a child passing or not, when taking the CRCT.

When 2 children fail and 25 others pass, it is hard to say the teacher did not do their job!

IF the parent complains, then they only need to look in the mirror and TALK to their child to improve their performance in school.

By Susan

July 1, 2005 02:53 PM | Link to this

I think this forum is great, but I would like to expound upon this idea with another one. I would like to open a website to be used as a solution/discussion forum for Georgia schools. As a parent, I too am frustrated with many of the things I see, but do not know where to start to make changes. Unless we all work together and are willing to listen to criticism and suggested solutions the problems will only get worse. Before I spend the time and money to create a forum I would like to know your thoughts on what you would like to see. Be aware though, everyone will have a right to put in their input and some of it may not be what educators, students or parents want to hear, but the only way to correct the problems is to get the problems out in the open. If this means exposing administrative problems, teaching, student or parenting issues then so be it. We are all adults (except the students) and should work together to fix the problems for the students.

Any thoughts and would anyone like to help?

By Karen Armsby

July 1, 2005 03:09 PM | Link to this

I’ll participate! What kind of help do you need? (Though, I have no webmaster expertise)

I think this forum is great for airing the issues, but I think you are talking about working together with a group for effective change, correct?

I would like to see the lines of communication open and plain speaking (lose the teacher talk!) between parents and school adminstrators and school boards. I believe that the great majority of responsible parents want to see the teachers in control of their classes, and supported by their administrators.

The school systems administrations have developed a defensive politically correct posture which results in knee jerk reaction and clamped down rules and policies because they are so afraid of lawsuits. The teachers are left without the support from their supervisors that they should expect as professionals.

I am willing to work with you to identify issues, and conflicts and avenues of resolution. Let’s work for a win-win solution for students, teachers and schools.

By Dick

July 1, 2005 03:15 PM | Link to this

To clear up mess in education, we need to first of all place education back on local level, what works in Washington,D C; Atlanta, Ga, Tallahassee, Fl may not work in Dothan Alanbama. Second, a good many of the administration dept (or at least in my area) consist of class room teachers and/or athletic dept heads who could not cut the mustard in class room, thus they went back and got their degrees enabling them to go into administration. We need to have parents and/or guardians teach the children respect. Respect for themselves, respect for those in charge, respect for fellow class mates. In my area (So. Ga), children do not respect anything. They had just soon tell a teacher to take a hike as to sit down when told to do so. They know, from experiences shared by older brothrs, sister, aunts and uncles, how to work administration. Each system neeeds to have two tyhpes of schools. One school for those who really want to learn, and the other for those waiting until they reach the age where the can drop out. George W can wish all he wants that children can learn if given opportunity, some will not be able to, some just do not care. I think it is time our local, state, and federal government realized “teahers will teach if given opportunity to do so. My spouse is a 26 year experienced teacher (hihgh school math certified) who loves to watch the light bulbs turn on in students minds, but spends so much time filling out stupid required reports there is not time left to teach. It is like one of those “My report will show you what I would have taught if I had been given the time to teach the contents enclosed in the report”. Please do not answer with “they get off at 4:00 each day. I beg to differ, spouse average leaving school each night at 6:30 P.M. last year.

By joe

July 1, 2005 03:32 PM | Link to this

Another good reason not to be a teacher. Kids and Lawyers are running the show.

By Karen Armsby

July 1, 2005 03:33 PM | Link to this

At our high school we have an excellent chemistry and physics teacher (besides Doc Neace) who left the classroom to go into administration. I asked him why, and he said there was no way to advance (i.e. earn more money) without going into administration. What a backwards system. The veteran and experienced teachers should be the best paid! The administrators are just rule and policy enforcement agents.

By Susan

July 1, 2005 05:15 PM | Link to this

Dick,

I understand your points and while they are very valid, we need to do something NOW. As taxpayers, we should have a voice in what happens to OUR education system. If we work as a group, we can make changes. We can make our representatives and administrators, school boards and superintendents listen and force changes to be made. If we don’t work to find a solution, then we have no one but ourselves to blame for what is happening. Our future is at stake here, because the students of today will be the leaders of tomorrow and from what I see and hear, I’m frightened as to what is going to happen later on in our future.

Sorry for such a long post.

Susan

By John Scanlan

July 4, 2005 09:20 AM | Link to this

It is unfortunate that this sort of relationship continues in the educational system. Just name any profession, and who is in command of that system? Why the experts,of course; those who have been schooled, coached, and trained in the finer points of the profession. What we find today is tantamount to the passenger, unhappy with the bumpy flight, complaining to the captain and telling him how to fly the airplane. The next time a citizen is in disagreement with the ticket-issuing officer, or not feeling good with the progress of the surgical procedure on a loved-one, let that individual present his point-of-view to the officer, or burst into the OR in order to direct the proceedings. We know what the results will be, and it won’t be pleasant for said individual. Yet any parent seems to be able to wander into anyones’ office in the ole red school house and cause the earth to rotate in a direction suitable to their individual cause. The repeated use of the word “individual”, tied-in with the initials “PC” will spell-out the base problem: our refusal to accept that, albiet we are individuals, we are but members of the big picture, a society. Special treatment (ala political correctness) of that self-annointed individual is where the problem started, and it is where it needs to stop.