Get Schooled

By Lorenzo

May 4, 2005 08:12 AM | Link to this

I believe the teacher, in fact I wouldn’t want to be a teacher nowadays. Flunking him probably would have put Dacula on the failed school list. The principal is trying to keep up the quota, so his school doesn’t make the list, it’s being done through out Georgia.

By Tomi

May 4, 2005 08:32 AM | Link to this

I do not think grades should be used as punishment. If the assignement deserved a good grade, it should not have been taken away. He had already earned that grade before he fell asleep. That’s like having a salary that you have already earned taken away because you come into work late or fall asleep on the job. One had nothing to do with the other. I realize that teaching is a difficult job, but some teachers go to an extreme.

By Greg

May 4, 2005 08:35 AM | Link to this

A student sleeping during a lab is a discipline issue? If I remember correctly, labs require an active involvement on the part of the students. One must really question how the lab report has been completed if the student slept through the activity. Mr. Neace is certainly justified in taking the action he has. In fact, he has been overly generous to the student by giving him half credit. A student sleeps during a science lab and a veteran and accomplished teacher is barred from the campus for administering a penalty, certainly a reasonable outcome… a reasonable outcome in a dystopian novel by Orwell or Huxley perhaps, but not in the real world.

By deedubya

May 4, 2005 08:35 AM | Link to this

I am a former parent at Dacula HS and I know firsthand what they do for atheletes. The principal is out of line.

By Wendy

May 4, 2005 08:38 AM | Link to this

There are rules in life - if you break the rules you pay the price. You fall asleep or waste time in this teachers class you loose points. What happens when he falls asleep at work, are his parents going to go bully the boss into giving him his job back? What are we teaching our kids by our actions these days?

By Quana Cassady

May 4, 2005 08:48 AM | Link to this

Neace said he developed his own policy about 10 years ago that students who waste time in class � by sleeping, playing games or engaging in other mindless activities � receive a penalty grade. The penalty can be a zero or half credit depending on the assignment, he said.

Roach said she did not know why Neace’s actions were challenged this time. She said additional facts will be presented during Thursday’s hearing.

“We all know that if you sleep in Doc’s class you can get a zero,” said junior Alisha Crowder, one of the organizers of the petition drive.

Several students have received zeroes and half credits this school year, Neace said.

I believe the above quotes tells the story completely. This child knew from the beginning of the year a 0 or 1/2 a grade would be the result. If this has happened to other children this school year why is this the first time the public has heard of it?

Atheletes do receive “special’ treatment. Why do you think the high schools do nothing about the hazing incidents and cover them up? Most of those incidents would require the child or children involved to be suspended and what would a suspension do to their grades? It is great to see a teacher actually care and stand up agaist the prefential treatment atheles receive.

By been there

May 4, 2005 08:54 AM | Link to this

Sleeping in class is a problem in Gwinnett high schools. It is so frequent that it is part of the school culture. It needs to be addressed because it is one of the behaviors that combine to indicate disrespect and misunderstanding of academics. Students (and some parents and some administrators) believe the grade is the learning experience. This undermines real education.

By Mike

May 4, 2005 08:54 AM | Link to this

Any school district who doesn’t listen to the children who attend there probably isn’t a good place to send kids in the first place. Young people, especially those of high school age are pretty sharp generally where the issues in school are concerned. If a teacher (who is present) is countermanded by a principal (who isn’t) then the pricipal is wrong.

By Kay Z.

May 4, 2005 08:57 AM | Link to this

I’m behind the teacher 100%. The student knew the teachers rules and disobeyed. There are kids out there who work hard and there are those who don’t care and are coddled by the school system and their parents.

Bring back the days when teachers had the respect of both parents and students. Too many parents allow their kids too much freedom and let them get away with stuff. They (parents) want to be their kids best friend. I say “be a parent”.

My kids never got in trouble in school. They knew the rules and their Dad & I enforced those rules. Disobey and pay the price. They were A & B students, worked hard and earned the Hope and graduated on it. C’s and below grades were not acceptable. And teachers deserve respect.

They also had part-time jobs. They learned about the “real” world and responsibility. A boss is not going to coddle you.

To those students and parent that disagree….GROW UP!

By Anniemae

May 4, 2005 09:29 AM | Link to this

This is absurd! The teacher clearly stated the rules of his class and all students should have to comply, just another instance of an athlete being favored. What does this teach our children? Parents wonder why teachers have no control or authority in the classroom and this is why! As a parent I completely stand behind the teacher, thank God my kids don’t go to Dacula High School!

By Christopher

May 4, 2005 09:30 AM | Link to this

If one of my girls had fallen asleep or been disruptive in class Mr. Neace would be the least of their worries. Teachers should not have to put up with the results of poor parenting. Many parents today want to blame everyone else for their BAD CHILDREN.They should give Mr. Neace a raise!

By Mary

May 4, 2005 09:30 AM | Link to this

If a student submits a perfect assignment, the grade should reflect it. Sleeping is a separate issue that should be dealt with separately. The administration should have known and corrected this teacher’s policies that contradicted the administration’s policies. Maybe the teacher bored the student to sleep!

By Kelly

May 4, 2005 09:32 AM | Link to this

I totally agree with all of the comments above. Being a high school teacher myself, I know how they system works. This teacher is in the RIGHT and the Principal should be backing him…not going against him!! Furthermore, if the students are rallying around this teacher, why aren’t the administrators listening. Some of them have taken their zero and moved on….why is this “football” player getting special treatment????

By lisa

May 4, 2005 09:40 AM | Link to this

In most classes, especially in college, class participation is a mandatory part of your grade. I would think that falling asleep in class would be considered not participating. Additionally, as long as classroom rules are made known to the students, then ignorance or blatant disrespect is no excuse. Hard lesson learned, but the correct lesson.

By Concerned College Student

May 4, 2005 09:48 AM | Link to this

Rules are rules, if you disobey the rules than you must be punished. This teacher has had this policy for 10years and no one ever challenged it until now. Come on be for real! To my understanding this was not a lecture, but a lab which meant it required the student to engage in a hands-on activity, so if your sleep during the lab, how would you be able to complete the written part of the lab and turn it in for a perfect grade the next day. … However, the fact still remains that its a policy and if the teacher has to change it for him, than he has to change it for all, which is WRONG and not fair. “Doc” sounds like a GREAT teacher, and it is ashame that his talent and creditablity will be punished because some student, his parents and the schools principal felt as though the teacher grade deduction policy was unfair, in this particular case. Good teachers are hard to come by! The alleged student-athlete should fiss up to his mistakes and get over-it, because in the “real (college)world” your parents, nor the dean, or the president of the college, will be able to save your grade, once a policy has been set by the professor. RULES ARE RULES…RESPECT THEM AND GET OVER IT.

By Michael

May 4, 2005 09:56 AM | Link to this

This is an outrage. An outstanding and principled teacher has been punished by a spineless administration that cares more about winning football games than teaching students good manners and respect for authority. Sleeping in class is unacceptable conduct period. This teacher ought to be given the Teacher of the Year award instead of being kicked out of school. And why hasn’t the student been punished? What lesson is this school administration teaching the students of Gwinnett County? It’s O.K. to disobey your teacher; it’s O.K. to sleep in class … so long as you’re a star athlete. How sad.

By Gerri

May 4, 2005 10:05 AM | Link to this

Why is the Gwinnett County Board of Education allowing the school administration to fire this 23-year veteran teacher? Shades of the James Hope/Gateway Testing lawsuit! Hasn’t Gwinnett’s school administration learned anything? Even if some sanction of the teacher is appropriate for not following the principal’s (wrong) directive to change the grade back, how can they justify firing a teacher whose given 23 years to the school system over this issue? If the principal had any common sense, he would have changed the grade himself and given the teacher a reprimand letter—and saved the Gwinnett School System another public humiliation.

By Cathy

May 4, 2005 10:06 AM | Link to this

One cannot seperate paying attention and showing respect for one’s teacher from the educational process. Coddling an athlete will only teach him arrogance, selfishness, and disrespect for ‘rules.’ This where ethics start to break down, when we cannot teach them or stand by them in the classroom. The students and administration knew “Doc’s” classroom standards. That the student failed to adhere to them was his own error, that the administration did not stand behind their highly regarded faculty member in this one instance is a blantant bow to favoritism and to what they thought was going to be the path of least resistance, athletes being the ‘big men on campus’ and all.

Guess the real students are showing admin!

By Karen Armsby

May 4, 2005 10:15 AM | Link to this

Dr. Neace is a fine teacher with high standards. My three children graduated from Dacula, and I had the pleasure of sitting next to Doc Neace many years ago on a Saturday field trip to a Georgia Tech program to inform girls about engineering education and career opportunities. At that time I did not have a high opinion about science education in Gwinnett County, where in elementary and middle school the only science experiment seemed to be growing bean plants year after year. After our conversation that Saturday, I felt that Doc Neace was a shining light of hope in Dacula for science education, and that my kids could learn some good science at Dacula High School.

And my hopes were fulfilled. My oldest daughter graduated from Georgia Tech last year in architecture and is now a grad student at Rice. The physics she had at Dacula HS helped to prepare her for the rigors of Tech physics and her present work at Rice. My second daughter is completing her sophomore year at Georgia Tech, and is doing well in physics and her major of mechanical engineering.

I applaud Doc Neace and the other fine science teachers at Dacula who have high and demanding standards for our students. I don’t know the facts of the incident resulting in his departure. However, if Dacula HS loses Doc Neace, a fine teacher with high standards, then it will be a big loss for our kids.

By Valerie

May 4, 2005 11:01 AM | Link to this

The teacher is totally justified in his decision. The rules were stated at the beginning of the school year. The fact that he has 23 years tenure speaks volumes on his dedication to teaching. Students are there to learn. Labs are activity sessions. If you are sleeping, unless it is a sleep study, you are not active in the lab session and warrant a zero. If this student slept on the side lines during a game, he would have been dismissed from the team. End of discussion.

Preferential treatment for athletes is a different subject. We tend to idolize athletes at all levels. History has shown that celebrity at all levels is a “get out of jail free” pass. Look at recent trends in acquittals and plea bargains. This young athlete needs to learn discipline at all levels, starting in the classroom. Follow the rules.

By Deb

May 4, 2005 11:13 AM | Link to this

If the student made a good grade on an assignment, then he should be allowed to keep his grade. Falling asleep in class has nothing to do with his grades. That is why we have detention and ISS. Punish the student in the appropriate way. His grade has to do with what he comprehends not his conduct. If he is disrespectful, he should be punished with detention or ISS.

By Pat Carter

May 4, 2005 11:19 AM | Link to this

This is the problem with schools all over the country. The teachers are not in charge. Their the ones who do the teaching and know who deserves what grades. When I was in school (50’s,60’s)the same would’ve happened without question. We have to stop letting the system pamper these “KIDS”. We all know how it is with athletes. They are pushed through with dumbness. The parents only see $$ signs if their boys can be signed by scouts.

By Teresa

May 4, 2005 11:22 AM | Link to this

I think many of the posters here are missing the big picture. The school board has made a policy decision that teachers may not use grades to punish students. The teacher must follow this policy whether or not he agrees with it. He may not simply ignore it. To do so is insubordiation and is grounds for dismissal. The school board has every legal right and responsiblity to set policy for the school system.

Teresa

By Trey

May 4, 2005 11:25 AM | Link to this

Someone tell me what the point is in grades period if you can’t give a kid a “0” for not doing the assignment? If you’re going to argue that even though the kid did 0% of the work and received 0% of the credit, that this is “unfair” then why in the heck am I even teaching? What is the purpose of grading? I know in some high-end universities, grading is pass fail, but they use the basis of, hey, you’re smart enough to be here….and I believe if you don’t do the work, you fail…..what a wonderful message….don’t do anything and get credit for it!!

By Diane F.

May 4, 2005 11:28 AM | Link to this

I think the entire process from recruiting athletes to monitoring their grades and treatment should be evaluated from an outside source. I suggest the media research this and publish their findings. Parents of future athletes in Gwinnett County schools may be surprised to learn what really takes place. What ever happened to the day when any child could play on a school team regardless of talent or a monetary contribution? There are many with some talent that could excel in a sport they love with proper instruction and it is wonderful motivation for their self esteem. Now parents give large monetary contributions which ultimately plays a role in who is chosen. This year it is my understanding that the Dacula Basketball team went on a weekend outing the week before the team was actually chosen and names posted. Some of those who were not chosen for the team were aware of this outing and of course we the parents had to try and explain this behavior and still encourage the love of the sport. We need change. Diane F.

By G. HENRY

May 4, 2005 11:31 AM | Link to this

This is nothing new. I graduated in the 1980’s from this school, and athlete’s always got preferential treatment. In fact, some of us had to protest due to the fact an athlete that could neither read nor write was graduating, but some of us that tried the hardest received failing grades.

By DB

May 4, 2005 11:32 AM | Link to this

Here’s probably what happened. It may or may not have to do with the kid being an athlete. I’m a teacher. The teacher made it clear from the beginning of the year that this could happen. During a physics lab(or any lab), sleeping is a safety hazard, and class participation can be graded. Sleeping is not class participation. Sleeping and then scoring perfect makes two possibilities; one is that the kid copied from another kid; two is that the kid is misplaced into the wrong class since it’s so easy for him. Teacher gives half credit because assignment probably reflects both participation in lab and assessment. Kid tells mommy and daddy that life isn’t fair because he may fail course, take exams, miss game, etc. although teacher is clearly in the right. Kid leaves out the fact that all kids know his policies. Mommy and daddy go to principal and threaten to sue because their kid is being punished for wasting the taxpayers money by sleeping in class and then making this big fiasco. Administrator gets scared and tells teacher to change grade to make parents happy. Teacher, who believes he will create a disservice to all students by allowing this to happen, refuses to change grade. Mommy and daddy go to the news to make it even more of an issue. Mommy and daddy will probably sue, which will cost the taxpayers even more money to defend.

As a teacher, I find this sad! All of this over an assignment and a spoiled little brat. I definitely don’t wonder why I now teach in private school. And I know why teachers are quitting their jobs on a daily basis.

Not only does the kid need to wake up, but so does society!

I’m sure we haven’t heard the end of this.

You can make your own conclusions.

By Pat Carter

May 4, 2005 11:36 AM | Link to this

Teresa, the school district’s spokeswoman didn’t know why he was challenged this time after having his own policy for 10 years without ever being reprimanded. The students all knew that if you slept or did any other activities in his class besides the work, you got a zero.

By deedubya

May 4, 2005 11:43 AM | Link to this

There is a lot in the athletic program that needs to be looked at from the top on down

By Tye

May 4, 2005 11:45 AM | Link to this

Where is the ballot sheet to sign “Doc” up for Teacher of the Year? It’s about time someone decided to put education back into the learning process.

By Robert

May 4, 2005 11:46 AM | Link to this

I feel very sad for all of the real students in that school system.

There is a viable grading called “performance grading.” It is a formal education method of grading. It allows for the teacher to observe the student performing an activity and to grade accordingly on what the student does (the method that they chose to use, how well they do each step, etc.). This is very common and applicable in science labs.

If the student’s performance was sleeping, then that student does deserve a zero - plain and simple. Sleeping is not a discipline problem.

All the teacher would have to do is to ensure that this performance grade is part of each students grade.

By TOM

May 4, 2005 11:46 AM | Link to this

The school system is going to BAR a teacher with that many years of experiance in PHYSICS, when they can not even fill the openings they have??? GET REAL AND STAND BEHIND THIS TEACHER! Remember, the vast majority of those high school athletes will have to go to work after graduation, some might go on to college. But after that, the numbers go down further and then we are left with an unemployable sleeper at the office. On the other hand you have a dedicated teacher of 23 years. NOBODY SHOULD GET SPECIAL TREATMENT!

By LISA

May 4, 2005 11:56 AM | Link to this

You see this why you have great teachers been fired, due to lack of experience in the adminstration.It’s clear now that you don’t even need classroom experience to be a principal,as long as you have a piece of paper saying you are certified!!It happen all the time so now you have a master teacher who have been fired for lack of qualification from the top!!!It’s like a war among the righteous.

By Karen Armsby

May 4, 2005 12:00 PM | Link to this

Teresa, Please, the school board policies are not as black and white as you state them. Each Principal has discretion in his school to govern the teachers. And this is not a discipline issue, it’s about class participation! Doc Nease instituted his standards ten years ago. Another way to look at his grading policy is this, if you are awake and participate, you earn points toward your grade, and if you snooze you don’t earn the points.

Apparently the kid didn’t get the participation points, so he complained, and his parent said in the ajc article of dismissing Doc Nease “what’s fair is fair.” The parent has just excused his kid’s failure to participate and in fact has encouraged his laziness. Way to go Dad!

Now, let’s look at Principal Donnie Nutt who has a history of knee jerk reactions to complaints. If you recall, several years ago a complaint was made by a Dacula HS English teacher about a white student portraying a black character in the HS theater production of John Steinbeck’s ‘Of Mice and Men.’ (no black students auditioned for the part!) The Theater teacher had coordinated the production with the English classes who were studying the novel that term. The protesting teacher had not read the classic, shame on him, and he gave his students extra credit for writing letters of protest to the Principal. Rather than correct the protesting English teacher, Mr. Nutt decided that the Dacula community would be harmed by viewing this timeless classic and stopped the show. Fortunately, the show went on at the 14th St. Theater in Atlanta, thanks to their generosity.

Hello Gwinnett County Schools, wake up and get a clue! Rather than dismissing Doc Nease for enforcing his standards, I think Principal Nutt should be replaced with someone who can resolve these issues in an intelligent and even handed manner. I nominate Doc Neese for Principal!

By Fed up

May 4, 2005 12:06 PM | Link to this

Teresa (Cantrell I assume) do you have a child or any experience with the high school. Apparently we all do

By Linda

May 4, 2005 12:07 PM | Link to this

This teacher should be applauded. Good teachers make good students! In Parkview and Brookwood school district… coaches typically step in and let the athletes know what they have to do. It is a fact that if you have a problem with a football player talk to the head coach. The coaches tend to deliver messages better than the rest of us, to the student athletes. In fact send Mr. Neace into the Parkview /Brookwood district. We LOVE OUTSTANDING educators like him!

By Jerry

May 4, 2005 12:08 PM | Link to this

This is yet another example of why our education system does not work. You have a principal and a school system administration who lower themselves to the lowest common denominator, high school athetics. If the teacher was sleeping in class I am sure disipline would be handed out by the administrators. This is truly a good “life” lesson for all of Gwinnett County students. Maybe the principal would think differently if he was having surgery and the surgeon decided to dose off or when on an airplane the pilots are asleep. Where is common sense in school administrators?

By D Mancilla

May 4, 2005 12:08 PM | Link to this

Bring’s back memories of 11th & 12th grade high school of the 70’s. Seeing player’s humped over their desk’s sleeping in their big, letterman jacket’s. Alway’s passed classes with seemingly little effort. Special treatment for player’s has been going on for year’s. Of course the teacher was right!

By suthrn_stranger

May 4, 2005 12:09 PM | Link to this

I think the teacher was out of line. However, a precedent was set and it was never disputed at least by a non-athlete. This made headlines because the kid played football.

I agree with DB on how the kid got a perfect score. However, I do not think you should be penalized for class partcipation or lack thereof. Falling asleep did not affect his performance nor does it take away from the most important fact, the kid comprehends the material and it was reflected in his grade. If you find the class boring then you find it boring. The teacher should be partly at fault for not making the class more interesting. In college most of my professors only based a participation grade if you were borderline between an “A” or “B”, “B” or “C” etc.

To Diane F. being an athlete in high school, so speaking from experience, the way the a “new” player to the team is chosen works like this in large part: the new kid may be equally talented as a kid who played on the team from the previous year; however, the new kid is not chosen because the incumbent player is already familiar with the offense, the coach is familiar with his work effort, and already has a rapoir with the team, as well there are only so many spots on a roster. Unless, the new kid is a standout talent or noticeably more talented chances are he won’t make the team. The team changes very little if any from year to year. If the new kid made the team and sat the bench the entire year that would cause a new issue.

By Carol

May 4, 2005 12:18 PM | Link to this

I hope that this teacher is reinstated and that he continues with his class policies…..I hope that the parents will also rally around the teacher…THere is no excuse for sleeping in class!!

By Lisa

May 4, 2005 12:19 PM | Link to this

True Story…high school graduating class of 1980. Star running back got to sleep through all his remedial classes. Teachers (who were his coaches) had him passing in order to play the game every Friday in the fall. After graduation, the running back couldn’t even get a job driving a meat truck. He didn’t know how to read or add. Sat around his house all day smoking pot and drinking beer, mooching of his parents.

Mr Neace, you should be nominated for National Teacher of the Year not fighting for your job.

By HT Reeves

May 4, 2005 12:19 PM | Link to this

Having taught in a science classroom for almost 20 years, I feel that the student received a more than adequate grade. The principal is out of line for requesting a grade change.

It does make you wonder what is going on at the school.

By Tracey

May 4, 2005 12:21 PM | Link to this

I am a graduate of Dacula High School and a former chemistry and physics student of Mr. Larry Neace. Last Friday during a routine call to check on the goings on in my hometown, I was shocked to hear about the incident involving Mr. Neace. The description of what occurred was so surprising to me that at first I thought the person telling it was joking. As I listened and realized it was, unfortunately, no joke, I became more horrified and angry by the minute. From what I can ascertain, Mr. Neace’s policy of giving a zero for each day that a student falls asleep in class has been called into question because a student in his senior year was going to fail the class because of these zeroes, despite having done some amount of work (an unknown variable to me) for the class. If memory serves and if the policy has not changed since my years at Dacula, these zeroes are factored in as part of a student’s participation grade. This policy, along with other policies and rules of Mr. Neace’s classroom, are made clear at the beginning of the year and are captured in the syllabus. Every student is made aware of the rules from day one. If a student chooses to sleep during class, the he or she chooses to receive a zero for that day. This is no different than when a student chooses not to do homework and EARNS (not merely receives) a zero for that assignment. We all know that there is much more to learn in school than “reading, writing, and arithmetic.� We must also teach our children how to successfully function in society. This means teaching them responsibility and teaching them that for every choice, there exists a consequence. In the paraphrased words of Albert Einstein, “For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.� It’s not just a law of physics, but also of life. As a concrete example from my own past, I was once on the borderline between an ‘ A’ and a ‘B’ in one of my classes with Mr. Neace. I recall discussing this with him and asking about what I could do to ensure an ‘A.’ Was there extra credit? Would he “round up� if my average was a 91.4? The answer was no. Instead, he encouraged me to study hard for our next exam and the rest of the labs. I did so and received an ‘A’ in the class. Had he bent the rules or made up some esoteric extra credit assignment, I would have learned to “work the system.� Instead, I learned to work hard, because it pays off in the end. I am now a successful chemist with a Fortune 500 company. Next to my parents, I owe my career to Mr. Neace. He was the single most influential teacher I encountered through 21 years of formal education. He encouraged me and made me love chemistry and physics (when I had planned to major in Journalism, I might add). His encouragement did not end when I graduated. We kept in touch throughout college and graduate school. I can state with confidence that I would not be where I am today without Mr. Neace. He also had significant impact on one of my younger sisters, who ultimately chose Mr. Neace as her STAR teacher. After over 23 years with the Gwinnett County School System, I am sure there are innumerable stories just like mine. Any request to change the policy for any single student MUST be denied. Mr. Neace should be commended for refusing to back down despite pressure to do so. Our society is full of people who think the rules do not apply to them. I contend that if Mr. Neace is forced to change his policy it will only serve to reinforce that attitude in our young adults. We MUST continue to allow schools to be a place where lessons of life are taught alongside lessons of math, science and language.

By Diane F.

May 4, 2005 12:29 PM | Link to this

Preferential Treatment goes further with Dacula High School Principal Donnie Nutt. A certain teacher that has been at Dacula longer than most faculty members has had more than one complaint concerning verbal and physical communication with students and parents. Mr. Nutt supports and praises this faculty member. Oh did I mention this individual is a COACH !!!! I encourage others to speak out with similar complaints.

By Karen Armsby

May 4, 2005 12:33 PM | Link to this

I have one more thought and I hope the Gwinnett County School Folks are listening. You have a policy about absences from class. Mr. Neace has a policy requiring that students being present for class in body AND mind for class. Therefore, if a student is sleeping he is ABSENT! And I don’t believe that sleeping is on the list of excused absences. I will be at the hearing to support Doc Nease at 4:30 tomorrow.

By Fed Up

May 4, 2005 12:33 PM | Link to this

And has this particular COACH done some pretty embarrassing things too?

By LISA

May 4, 2005 12:34 PM | Link to this

To Jerry:It appear that people have traded good old fashion common sense which God call wisdom with Degree sense.people no longer treat people with a common sense approach!!! They judge you base upon how you appear to be intelligent!!It’s like a acting role, If you can play it well you get nominated,and If you acted out you get a oscar!!!

By Swan

May 4, 2005 12:39 PM | Link to this

I bet if this student had slept through any of his practices or games, there’d have been action of a different kind taken.

By dgr

May 4, 2005 12:39 PM | Link to this

Ok, this is not about discipline, if your not awake you cannot EARN a grade, its called PARTICIPATION. Any person that doesn’t understand that obviously slept through there classes. I teach and I have a participation grade, if you sleep it’s an F - pure and simple. This student will not be able to go on his job and sleep - he needs to learn responsibility. But don’t worry he wont have a job, he’ll be at home with DADDY mooching off of him. This is what teachers deal with everyday, parents who make excuses for their child’s poor behavior and school work.

By Thomas

May 4, 2005 12:43 PM | Link to this

Did the student get the grade he deserved? Yes, he slept through a lab and then managed somehow to get a perfect score on the assignment it raises some questions.

However, the board has a policy which states “The Board believes that the most important assessment of student learning is conducted by the teachers as they observe and evaluate students in the context of ongoing classroom activities. The teacher has the responsibility for evaluating student progress and providing grades that represent the student’s academic achievement. Grading is not to be used for discipline purposes.” The teacher cannot arbitrarily develop his own policies in contravention of those policies. If the police have a policy against excessive force and an officer makes his own policy on when excessive force can be used and does will we allow the officer to get away without punishment? We are a society of law and policy. If you don’t like the policy have it changed but teachers have to follow policy (even bad ones). I don’t believe that the teacher should be fired, but some action, even if it is a letter in his file, has to be taken to keep order. How far do we plan on allowing teachers to go in making their own policies.

One other note, if I cheat on a test and get a perfect score, does this policy mean that the teacher cannot change my grade as a disciplinary measure?

By John

May 4, 2005 12:45 PM | Link to this

I am amused at how quickly everyone jumps to conclusions.

Really, there’s not enough information in the article to say too much conclusively on one side or the other. The teenager in question fell asleep on the day the lab assignemnt was given, but still turned in a perfect score in time. We are not told that the teenager fell asleep during the lab, or that he had failed to perform the duties expected of him. We are not told of his prior grades in the class, nor anything that would allow an informed decision. Despite this lack of information, people leap to conclusions.

As an example of another valid conclusion from the paucity of information available, the teenager, who slept for part of the class according to the informtion from the district spokesman, could very well have already finished the lab assignment before falling asleep. When I graduated from high school, there were athletes in my AP Chem course. There were people in said AP Chem class who managed to finish lab assignments early, then rested for the remainder of the class period. Aren’t we guilty of major stereotyping by assuming that this teenager is a spoiled brat merely because he happens to be an athlete? If I replaced the term “athlete” or “football player” with “African-American” or “rich kid” or some other pigeonhole, is the automatic bias a little more clear?

Nowhere in Gwinnett COunty’s Academic & Knowledge Skills list do I see “staying awake in class,” though I do see a host of other good skills and knowledges to have. If the teacher had reduced the grade for, say, observing a lack in the student’s ability to properly conduct his labwork, then that would have been fine. Falling asleep? As someone else said, that’s what detention and in-school suspension is made for.

By Diane F.

May 4, 2005 12:46 PM | Link to this

suthern_stranger While I can appreciate and agree with your comments on the chain of athletes you failed to mention the monetary contributions that take place. How many players parents gave a donation when you played and how long ago was that? I’m sure it has been going on for years. Funny how it’s never mentioned.

Karen Armsby- Where can I vote?

By Gary

May 4, 2005 12:51 PM | Link to this

Now I know why Georgia is near the bottom in education. When athletics take precedent over education we all lose. Students are in school to get an education, “extracurricular activities”(sports) are there only if the student qualifies academically. “Doc” is a rare breed these days. Teachers are no longer able to take control of the classroom and education suffers. He deserves to be honored for being a caring teacher not reprimanded. It wasn’t long ago I was in high school and college. Athletes do get special treatment and their knowledge suffers and it also shows to the good students that the school administrators could give a hoot about what you learn or how far you go. I also remember when falling asleep in my classes deducted my class participation grade. Each teacher grades for 3 things: Tests, assignments, and class participation. This particular student did his assignment, but did not participate in class. The 1/2 credit grade he got reflected this. I don’t have any kids of my own right now, but when I do public shool is already out of the question. Home or private schooling is right now the best option.

By Greg

May 4, 2005 01:02 PM | Link to this

Hmmm? The student may have fallen asleep in class but turned in the paper on time and received a passing grade, but the teacher imposed a penalty grade because he fell asleep?

That’s ridiculous! How about giving the student an extra assignment, detention or at the extreme seeing that he didn’t play the next game.

Penalizing a student who completes a task is wrong. We are all human and we all have fallen asleep during class, meetings and other important sessions I am sure.

Greg

By Jake

May 4, 2005 01:04 PM | Link to this

Apparently Mr. Neace didn’t teach Tracey that Sir Isaac Newton came up with that third law of motion, not Einstein, who gave us the first law of thermodynamics instead. I believe the athlete is being properly prepared for ‘success’ in the 21st century. Knowing how to pull a few strings is infinitely more useful than the 18th century virtue of hard work. Ethical? No. Practical and realistic? Yes.

By Greg

May 4, 2005 01:06 PM | Link to this

This is why you hear professional athletes being interviewed they sound so ignorant. A lot of them “slept” in class and were never disciplined because they were a protected class. This is just another failure of the public schools. Give the teacher his job back!!

By Swan

May 4, 2005 01:13 PM | Link to this

My question is this. If the school and school board had a beef about this teacher’s grading policy that has long been in existence, WHY are they just now raising the roof over it?

I think we all really know why.

Contrary to popular belief, I can tell you here are MANY people who have not fallen asleep in class. I understand getting bored and zoning out, but literally sleeping in class is inexcusable.

By ned

May 4, 2005 01:21 PM | Link to this

teacher=1 student=0

By Megan

May 4, 2005 01:25 PM | Link to this

I agree that the teacher is in the right here. As a high-school educator myself, I consistently smack up against a wall of rules and regulations that undermine my ability to teach and grade students in a realistic way. Often, any parent who is willing to yell loud enough can get whatever they want. There is also a high amount of liberty given to student athletes. I no longer live in Georgia, but I keep up with the happeneings in Atlanta, and I am sad to say that the problems are not confined to just this area. Our school has been state champions in a sport two years in a row, and the trouble-making, loudmouth, failing star player has his discipline referrals revoked, his classes changed, and his grades inflated to keep him eligible on the court. When he was suspended for verbally assulting a teacher, his mother yelled and complained until the suspension was changed to ISS so that his eligibility would not be jeaopardized. This is only one of many examples of ahtletes getting a different treatment in order to perserve winning teams. I completly disagree with the idea that your behavior should not impact your grades. What angers me the most as an educator is that we are supposed to be preparing our students to function in the real world, be it college, trade school, the military, or a job, and at no point in any of these places does your behavior not impact your standing in other areas as it does in a school enviornment. If a worker falls asleep becuase they find their work boring (since some people seem to think that a boring class may be at fault), is it his or her bosses’ responsibility to make their job entertaining? I am here to teach, and I try to make it as fun and exciting as possible, but some students are just not going to be interested in my class and it is not part of my job to amuse them so that they do not fall asleep. Currently, if a student assults me or gets into a fight and gets suspended, I must supply them with all of their work and grade it as though it was turned in on time. I must also stay after school to remediate them, even though it is their own fault they were not in the classroom in the first place. Where is the personal responsibility for these kids? Where is the notion that they might have to endure things that they do not like, and if they choose to sleep or act out, then they must take the consequences of their actions. How do I explain to my 28 other students that even though they came every day and paid attention and did their work and followed the rules, the obnoxious, attention-seeking, classroom-disrupting child gets exactly the same grade?

By Heywood

May 4, 2005 01:27 PM | Link to this

Here we go, let’s punish the wrong person again. On the issue of using grades as punishment, the teacher overstepped her bounds but let’s look at the bigger issue. Students get away with murder, school curriculums have been “dumbed down” instead of helping students rise to the occasion and learn. We as a country have fallen into a sad state and part of it began when corporal punishment was removed from the schools.

By jr

May 4, 2005 01:29 PM | Link to this

Grades are already menaingless. That is why there is a CRCT and also college entrance exams. The GPA is taken with a grain of salt no a days.

As far as that teacher goes… who is to say he/ she did not give a pop quiz while the student was sleeping? That would not be punishment only lack or participation and a reflected 0 on his quiz :)

By Paul

May 4, 2005 01:35 PM | Link to this

Like this is a surprise at DHS? It is a well known fact that what the football coach wants is what gets done at DHS, and if one of his little crowd is punished, well that will not be allowed. As to the kids parents…If my kid fell asleep in class, he would have a more serious problem than a reduced grade when he got home…Of course, most parents now don’t seem to want to discipline their poor little children, especially a ‘FOOTBALL PLAYER’.

By Watson Bryant

May 4, 2005 01:38 PM | Link to this

Seems to me Doc’s grades are not based upon a kid’s knowledge of the subject and work product, but also in part upon how much a kid plays to his ego. If the kid gets the assignments right, that should be the end of it. Cutting a grade due to discipline is baloney. Science and conduct are different things, and the kid should get a “A” in science and an “F” in conduct. As far as I’m concerned if a kid can do and does the work and never even goes to class, give’m an “A”. In Doc’s class Albert Einstein would fail because he fell asleep or threw a spitball. Pay attention to Doc, whether you know more science than he does or not, or fail. This is just more political correctness and ego pandering. Ridiculous.

By Greg

May 4, 2005 01:44 PM | Link to this

Hmmm?

I do not think the teacher should be fired at all. I do think that his in class policy should follow the guide of the school department.

Sure punish the student. I don’t think anyone has a problem with that, however, to give a student who completes the work on time a zero is absurd for something that may happen to any human from time to time. That goes for star athlete or nerdy bookworm.

Ok..

Your at work. Your boss says close deals and use the policies the company has in its booklet to do so. You decide that your going to do things your way and you get away with it for years until a deal goes wrong. Its found that you did not follow policy. You are suspended w/o pay for two days.

I don’t think that you should be up in arms about your suspension. You didn’t follow the rules.

So just because this teacher has done this for years he is right?

That’s a good one.

As for student athletes getting away with special treatment, I think this should be an issue that should be taken up with the school department and not left in the hands of one teacher.

Greg

By Shooter

May 4, 2005 01:47 PM | Link to this

We’re all human???? Seems to me I’ve NEVER fallen asleep at work or while in a meeting. But I guess I’m just the old-fashioned responsible type. But the real world will take care of students like these who have less than a 1 percent chance of being a professional athlete. Their dream, as will their, parents will die and soon all will be living together until junior is 35 and Mr. Neace pulls up to pick up a Big Mac and his old nemesis is working the drive thru window.

By Shannon

May 4, 2005 01:53 PM | Link to this

It is not “using a grade as discipline” to state upfront and in the syllabus that those who fail to fully participate in class do not earn the full grade for their assignments. Once again, the lowest common denominator rules. Once again, a teacher who has inspired the best and brightest is being fired for refusing to allow a bureaucrat’s narrow interpretation of rules to determine grading policy. So my question is this: why do we continue to demand results from our teachers in the form of testing improvements when we remove their abilities to set standards for their students? Counterproductivity, anyone?

By ImaGeek

May 4, 2005 01:54 PM | Link to this

Let the kid sleep. He probably needs the rest after druggin til 3 am the night before. You’re cramping his style. What about letting the other students decide what to do in this instance? Food for thought.

By Tom Spach

May 4, 2005 01:56 PM | Link to this

The ridiculous statistical quagmire that drives school funding is the only entity served by not allowing grades to be used as discipline against misbehaving students. Our school systems have been managed into atrophy by a nation of lazy whiners.

By Linda

May 4, 2005 01:57 PM | Link to this

I teach at the college level and I am not going to tolerate sleeping students. If they are sleeping, they need to find somewhere else to sleep. I fail to see why it should be tolerated at the high school level. The principal needs a wake up call.

By Ray Williams

May 4, 2005 01:58 PM | Link to this

It depends. Was the grade given for an in-class assignment during which the student fell asleep? If so, the teacher’s right. If the grade was for anything else, the student/school is right.

By SCOTT W

May 4, 2005 02:10 PM | Link to this

1)This is not a case of a dumb jock getting special treatment.This student/athlete has kept an “A” average for his entire high school career. 2)This grade had nothing to do with passing/failing or playing/not playing.This could have been any of his students(athlete or non athlete). 3)The teacher was the one who violated county policy.The teacher could have allowed the grade that the student earned and disciplined the student in any other way (within county policy)and none of this would have happened. When a teacher openly violates a county policy and refuses to abide with his employers rules and putting the school and the system in jeopardy of litigation, Neese basically signed his on pink slip. 4)FYI—- 11 of the 13 rising 12th grade football players have already scored 1100 or higher on the SAT. 5)So for everyone who feels like they were slighted by jocks in high school, find a better example or get a life!
PS This young man is not my son and is no relation to me.

By JIM

May 4, 2005 02:11 PM | Link to this

WHO SETS POLICY, COMMUNICATES TO THE TEACHER AND COACHES AND ASSURES EVERYONE IS FOLLOWING ALL THE POLICIES? THIS IS MAY NOT THE FIRST WEEK OF SCHOOL. SOMEONE NEEDS TO DISCUSS THE LACK OF MANAGEMENT AT THIS SCHOOL. MR PRINCIPAL PLEASE COME FORWARD. IT IS YOUR TIME TO STAND AND BE QUESTIONED.OH I’M SORRY, YOU MUST HAVE BEEN ASLEEP. THAT’S OK, YOU STILL GET THE SAME GRADE. JIM

By Jimy

May 4, 2005 02:20 PM | Link to this

The teacher did the right thing. That’s the problem with kids now these days. They get away with murder and mom and dad bails them out. Like others you couldn’t pay me enough to be a teacher. Cause the student has more rights than them [the teacher].

By Linda

May 4, 2005 02:20 PM | Link to this

Maybe this dear county should have a “no sleeping” in class policy. It seems a bit foolish to me since sleeping students are not learning. Isn’t that why we pay taxes to send them to school anyway? I would personally prefer that my tax dollars hire teachers that care enough to discipline students that are not actively engaged in the learning process. I doubt very seriously that sleeping is the curriculum.

By Trey

May 4, 2005 02:21 PM | Link to this

Hey Watson, This is high school, not college. It’s not just a show up, or not, and do the work thing…if the kids want that, there’s always the GED….they have to show up, follow directions, AND produce results in order to pass…. That’s the problem with people today, they think if they can mail it in, it should count…well, too freakin bad, public school is a free education, but you have to at least show up and participate to get a grade….if they don’t want to participate, then they should be ready to reap the rewards (or lack thereof).

By Darrell

May 4, 2005 02:25 PM | Link to this

Yes rules are rules and they are in place to be followed. Should the kid who fell asleep in class be punished ? Yes, of course he should punished and then given a change to correct his behavior. Should a teacher who makes up his own grading policy in clear violation of his employers rules be pubinished ? Yes or course he should, then given a chance to correct his behavior. Aparently this teacher has chosen to not to correct his behavior and comply with the rules of his employer so he can no longer be employed there. Rules are rules if you mess up correct it if you are unwilling to comply find employment elsewhere.

By Bob

May 4, 2005 02:32 PM | Link to this

IMO.. The teacher was right in reducing the grade. School is not a place to get some sleep. If the child cannot stay awake during school hours, maybe the parents should consider taking away the after school activities.

By fed up

May 4, 2005 02:34 PM | Link to this

Darrell - if laws and rules were that clear cut, there would be a lot of people in trouble and in jail. They are made to be used when wanted and avoided when not wanted

By Jen

May 4, 2005 02:36 PM | Link to this

I think that if the teacher established at the beginging of the class that sleeping will not be tolerated and the consquence is a zero or half grade then the student already know what he was getting into. End of story.

By Darrell

May 4, 2005 02:41 PM | Link to this

Rules are rules and they apply to everyone, teachers students and adminstrators. The student who fell asleep in class should be punished according to the guidelines of the school and given a chance to correct his behavior. The teacher who chose to violate school grading policy should be punished for his violation and given a chance to correct his behavior also. Aparently for whatever reason this teacher has chosen not to correct his behavior and comply with the schools grading policy so he can no longer be employed there. All students must have the same set of rules to follow, athlete or not. If a student can’t or wont follow the rules she/he cannot be allowed to attend the school. All teachers must also follow the set of rules put before them. If “Doc” can’t or won’t follow those rules he can find a job somewhere the the rules are more to his liking.

By JKM

May 4, 2005 02:41 PM | Link to this

Donnie Nutt the current principle at DHS was my industrial arts intructor during my high school term “1978-1981”. As an instructor he was certainly fair to the students during those years.He probably still is.

By Terri

May 4, 2005 02:42 PM | Link to this

I am glad that this teacher stood behind his beliefs. As a former high school athlete and now knowing many high school athletes, it is common knowledge that there is special treatment. As I look back now, the teachers who helped me out did me no favors except a passing grade, tell me what did I learn? NOTHING. Athletes should be treated the same as every other student and as being a student athlete they should take pride in who they are and what they do. Back to Doc, giving a zero, I had a history teacher that did it if a student fell asleep in her class while watching videos, what did that teach me: to stay awake and to pay attention or my grade would suffer, no ifs, ands, or buts. I wish I could attend the public hearing for Doc, I would stand behind him unlike his own Principle. Shame on you Donald Nutt!!!!!

By dhsparent

May 4, 2005 02:48 PM | Link to this

As a parent of former and current DHS students I have a great concern that, once again, some jock flunky is getting special treatment. This is all too common at DHS with “THE COACH” running the show and “THE NUTT” being, as usual, absent. The really sad part is that the kids dad thinks his spoiled little brat is in the right…nice lesson for your kid, he must be a real prize. We all need to get out in force at this meeting and bring out the truth…course DHS and Gwinnett Co admin will not like that at all.

By SCOTTW

May 4, 2005 02:57 PM | Link to this

By J.P.

May 4, 2005 02:57 PM | Link to this

Why on earth is this story in the news?! Regardless of the outcome this teacher will be stigmatized by the public as a result. What’s next? Student gets reprimanded for drooling on their desk, as a result principal suspends janitor for not cleaning up the drool… “News flash at eleven”

By Darrell

May 4, 2005 03:01 PM | Link to this

Hey fed up Welcome to planet Earth more specifically the Unites States where we have more people in jail than any industrialized country on the planet. Or maybe just Atlanta where every jail in the metro area is massively overcrowded and has been subject to judicial review or take over to solve the ever escalation problems. I’m still waiting on Jackie Barret to locate my 2 millon in tax money she was too stupid to steal and just lost. I thingk it’s a wonderful thing Martha Stewart and a few dozen CEO’s got a nice dose of follow the rules because they do apply to you.

By Rick

May 4, 2005 03:10 PM | Link to this

taught at Dacula for 4 years. Mr. Nutt drove me out because I would not slavishly agree with everything he said. This issue with Doc Neace is a combination of a variety of factors - Donnie trying to impose his will, Kevin Maloof (the football coach)trying to improve the grade of his player, and Doc Neace showing some integrity. For those of you who believe that he broke the rules, it is absurd to support a rule which does not allow a teacher to evaluate student work by classroom performance. Sleeping is not a discipline issue, it is an academic issue. I have students who come to a test, go to sleep, and turn in a blank paper. According to the GCPS policy, I must give them another chance and not give them a 0 (especially if they’re a football player…)

By DHS student

May 4, 2005 03:11 PM | Link to this

As a student at DHS i do not know Doc personally. But from what I’ve heard, he is a fun, energetic, and just plain good teacher. I also know the student that has caused all this mess, and he is the typical stuck up, full of himself jock. I think it’s rediculous that a teacher gets fired for giving a earned zero. NONE of the teachers let their students sleep through class, it’s spelled out in the english language that you will recieve a zero for sleeping in class. but maybe this athlete can’t read well enough, since he’s had a cooshy life

By Kristen

May 4, 2005 03:14 PM | Link to this

ok. i go to dacula. i know how atheletes. they get away with everything. everything always goes their way. the principal is out of line for firing doc neace. wesley fell asleep in class so he should have gotten points taken off. he took time away from the teacher so why not take points away from his assignment. it’s only fair. he would have done that for any other student in his class.

By fed up

May 4, 2005 03:27 PM | Link to this

Hey darrell what planet are you on they use policies, rules, laws, practices on jobs in school in life to help who they want to and punish who they want to which principal are you cause you obviously have no clue what is going on in dacula

By Juan_Valdez

May 4, 2005 03:44 PM | Link to this

I am amazed at the mentality of those who think, “If I don’t like the rules, then I don’t have to abide by them.� According to Fed Up, laws and rules “are made to be used when wanted, and avoided when not wanted.� Using that logic, I think I’ll drive home tonight by myself in the HOV lane. When I get pulled over I’ll just tell the nice policeman, “Hey bud. You can put that ticket where the sun don’t shine. I paid my taxes and I’ll drive anywhere I dang well please.� I’m sure the judge will be most understanding when I explain to him that since I disagree with the law, it therefore doesn’t apply to me.

Regardless of how you feel about the student’s behavior, the teacher in this case should be held to a high standard for following school system policy. The teacher is in a position of authority and sets the example for his students. If the teacher cannot abide by all of the school system rules (…not just the ones he likes), then he should either work within the system to change the rules or find another job.

By D

May 4, 2005 03:44 PM | Link to this

Here is what we have learned from the article:

The incident occurred over two weeks ago but is just being reported today.

Despite the report, there are still many questions to be answered.

The grade in question was for a lab assignment. The student fell asleep on the day the assignment was given but turned it in on the day it was due and earned 100% on the work itself. It is unclear where the lab assignment was completed but it does not appear to have been at the school. The report does not say the student fell asleep during the lab.

It is also debatable whether the grade reduction was a punishment for the act itself (sleeping) or because, by sleeping, the student was not engaged in required class participation. If the work was completed outside of class, then what “participation� did the student miss? I am curious as to what the student missed while sleeping. As others have said, he may have completed all his work that day and was napping until the next bell. Obviously there is still more information needed to make a final call.

It is reported that the grade penalty was deducted from a single lab grade. While the deduction will affect the student, if all his other grades are A’s, the effect should be minor. Nowhere does the report indicate that this penalty put the student in jeopardy of failing the class.

The Article does not indicate that this student had been previously punished for sleeping in class, but it does indicate that other students had received similar punishment for sleeping.

The School district stated that the teacher had repeatedly refused to comply with the district policy. The teacher said he had never been reprimanded or punished for failing to comply with the district policy (even though his own, contradictory policy had been in effect for 10 years). These two statements seem to be at odds with each other. If indeed, the teacher is correct and he had not been reprimanded before, why did this particular incident give rise to an enforcement issue? The teacher’s attorney is framing his case by inferring that the enforcement resulted due to the student’s athletic status, however there is no concrete evidence showing that to be the case.

It is clear the teacher is well liked and respected by the student body, despite setting rules and sticking to them. That is a good sign.

One of the red flags here is the whole idea of sleeping in class. I cannot imagine ever doing something like that, whether in the middle of a class or after the work is done. I know sleeping in class is more common than most of us would expect. The combination of school bus pick-up at 6:45 am and after-dinner studies creeping past 11:00 pm can have its effect, but students must find a way of keeping awake and focused for the whole day. We in the workforce understand that there really is no other option.

On an emotional level I am all for the teacher, but intellectually I understand that the hearing revolves around the specific issue of a policy violation. Whether that policy is evenly and properly applied remains to be seen. I look forward to hearing the results of tomorrow’s hearing.

By Darrell

May 4, 2005 03:54 PM | Link to this

I got an idea why don’t we just let everybody make up thier own grading rules.
Doc’s has his grading policy so I go mine. Cute girls get an A’s, cheerleaders A plus. Not so cute but nice get B’s and the rest C’s. For male’s; Jocks get the minimum grade needed to play since thinking is not really for then anyway. All minorities except Asians get A’s to make up for past discrimination. Too smart Asians get C’s to give everybody else a chance. The rest get a B or C depending on how I feel on any given day. This is gonna work great each student will know about what they are gonna get and not have to go to all that trouble to actually learn anything and I don’t actaully have to teach or grade and those pesky tests either.

Rules are made to be followed this teacher did not follow them and was given his chance to comply and chose not to.

By C

May 4, 2005 03:54 PM | Link to this

Two thoughts: If the teacher’s policy is contradcitory to district policy, as the article implies, why has it taken 10 years to enforce it?

I student taught in Gwinnett County and had a similar situation with this district policy. I think this district policy sends the message that the ends justify the means. Get the right answer, even if you cheat, for you will be rewarded with the good grade.

By Sara

May 4, 2005 03:58 PM | Link to this

I am proud of this teacher. It’s about time someone stood up for what is right and didn’t cave in due to the “political pressure” by these parents and the principle. Parents, if your kids mess up, let them pay the piper. If you don’t, how will they ever learn to do what is right?

By Linda

May 4, 2005 04:00 PM | Link to this

@D:”The combination of school bus pick-up at 6:45 am and after-dinner studies creeping past 11:00 pm can have its effect, but students must find a way of keeping awake and focused for the whole day.”

These high schoolers get out of school at 2:00. This provides plenty of time to do homework. To wait until after dinner… creates a problem. The priorities have to be adjusted. My son is an athlete, he encountered these same problems. He had to modify his priorities.

The athletes sometimes feel pulled between the two. Schoolwork and workouts… If they focus on school work the coaches feel they are not dedicated. If they focus on workouts, the teachers give them the low grades they deserve.

When teens stay up too late doing home work, online chatting, watching tv, listening to music, they are tired the next day. The next day comes, and they tend to do it all over again. It becomes a vicious cycle.

A P-A-R-E-N-T has to step in and take control. Stop the workouts, and try to find a balance. DON’T blame the teacher.

THe teacher established the rules on day one. The parents likely signed a syllabus like the rest of us.

This kid is a teen… they don’t know everything. Although I remember being a teen, and thinking I did! A parent should step in and make him live by the rules. If he is as smart as all of that… this low grade won’t hurt!

Finally, what a SPINELESS principal!

By William

May 4, 2005 04:03 PM | Link to this

If this teacher has been using this practice for grading and has never had any complaints previous to this incident, I would belive that the school had accepted this as policy and therefore should stand behind the teacher and support him.

By DHS student

May 4, 2005 04:11 PM | Link to this

since this grade was on a lab and he slept through this lab there is no possible way that he could have made a 100%. During a lab you have to be awake to actually take the data to fill in the assignment. Therefore the student must have cheated, inless he’s some super genious.

By Anita

May 4, 2005 04:14 PM | Link to this

Rick, if what you say is true, I’m just appalled at this policy’s use. I wonder if this is a case of a policy being interpreted counter to its original intent. Does anyone know the history of this policy? Was it instituted to keep inappropriate (and real) “punishments” away from the grading process (i.e., lowering a student’s grades because they had been caught in serious violation of school policies during class time), or was it put in place to keep teachers from setting behavior standards in the classroom?

By David

May 4, 2005 04:25 PM | Link to this

Jake: Einstein didn’t discover the first law of thermodynamics. It was discovered long before he was born. Obviously your science teacher didn’t do so good either.

Scott: If he was an “A” student with such a high SAT score, why is he complaining? One zero, or one 50%, won’t amount to anything… Unless… maybe… this isn’t the first one… and he’s NOT an “A” student?

Sorry guys, there is a principle in law that says if it has been OK to do something in the past against the rules and you didn’t complain then, you don’t have the right to complain now. And no, Jake, I can’t tell you who made it a law, but like thermodynamics, it doesn’t matter who tells you about it, it’s still true.

By Linda

May 4, 2005 04:32 PM | Link to this

David: I believe the legal term is “equitable estoppel.”

This means if the principal allowed this teacher to use this rule for years, he can’t turn around and cry foul now because it affects this kid!

Also, I agree… if he is as smart as someone above (not his parent) implies, this should not hurt him. Clearly this kid must be in danger of failing, as a result of this grade.

By Stan

May 4, 2005 05:00 PM | Link to this

Amazing…a veteran teacher cares enough to expect his students to actually stay awake during class, and his principal, Mr. Nutt, determines that the teacher should be suspended for violating school board policy. I hope this situation awakens the citizens of Gwinnett County. A truly “world class” school system would not undermine the credibility of a quality teacher for the purpose empowering a misguided student.

By Debra

May 4, 2005 05:16 PM | Link to this

By caving in to athletes and the demands of their self-absorbed parents, we are continuing to raise a generation with no manners, no work ethic and no hope for their future. Afterall, mommy’s little Johnny can’t do anything wrong! Because of this attitude, the public school system is beyond repair unfortunately, and my heart aches for the children.

Moreso, however, I GRIEVE for the teachers - these ladies and gentlemen answered a calling and will never be paid what they are worth, nor will they receive the earthly respect and accolades they deserve.

Too many children these days learn their just-enough-to-get-by behavior from their parents. I’m sure the “just keep playing ball, kid,that’s your ticket to anything” is being sung by a lot more ex-athletes trying to relive their glory days through their children than we realize.

What a shame for our society and what a shoddy future for these students.

If lack of support for our public educators continues, chances are you will find all of the gifted teachers in Atlanta’s private schools, and who could blame them?

By Anna

May 4, 2005 05:21 PM | Link to this

I honestly think the student SHOULD have been punished. My brother had this teacher when he went to High School there and never had problems. It’s like my mom (who happens to be a teacher herself) said, “What would happen if I were to fall asleep while I was teaching? Wouldn’t I get fired?” That is a very valid statement. Plus, if he’s had these rules for the past TEN years, then why is there a problem now? Just because ONE irresponsible kid decides to get his parents involved? This is all ridiculous and the teacher shouldn’t have to be put through this. Suck it up, it’s one grade and if he fails it’s his own fault for sleeping through class! Why aren’t his parents concerned about him sleeping through class. I do honestly love sports and football and totally support them, but GRADES AND SCHOOL come first. Athletes shouldn’t get special treatment and I’ve seen it happen before. I know that this one student is NOT a straight “A” student and doesn’t really care about his grades. He should be the one being punished for this, not the teacher.

By C.R.H.

May 4, 2005 05:32 PM | Link to this

The kid copied the work from someone else. Give his sorry butt a 0 & move on! I am so glad I don’t teach in Gwinnett county. BTW…this teacher would NOT have a problem finding another job should he decide to leave or should the GCPS decide to totally brain fart & fire him. Also, it is an ethical violation for an admnistrator to “bully” or coerce a teacher into changing a grade…report the sorry administrator & let him fight the PSC for his certificate. Any educator with knowledge about administrators doing this are also required to report the violations (or else they are also violating their ethical oath)!!!

By Diane F.

May 4, 2005 05:50 PM | Link to this

Those that support Doc. Neace should attend the meeting on Thursday. I have three students that have attended Dacula High and are all familiar with this teacher. They all agree that he is an excellent teacher, firm but fair and is well liked by the students. He gets along with students and goes out of his way to help those in need. My daughter once witnessed a Coach approach Doc. Neace asking for special treatment towards an athlete that was failing. He refused to change his grade instead he offered his time after school to tutor this individual in order to allow him to pass on his own. Another factor in all of this is the fellowship at Hebron Baptist Church where many Dacula School faculty members worship together. Parents and students have witnessed the exclusion of faculty and others outside of this faith in various areas. To my knowledge Mr. Nutt and most of the Coaches are members of Hebron. Doc. Neace is not. See you at the meeting Thursday.

By Jim

May 5, 2005 08:15 AM | Link to this

I don’t believe in government schools or their worthless grades in the first place. Secondly as parents if you want to put your kids in an environment that stifles learning then the outcome you get is the one you deserve. The right to educate your children is God given. Giving that right away to your government is your choice.

By John

May 5, 2005 08:18 AM | Link to this

An athelete getting preferential treatment from the principal? I am shocked! Truly shocked!

By Jack

May 5, 2005 08:28 AM | Link to this

While the student needs to be disciplined for sleeping in class, policies in place prohibit using grades to punish him. Mr. Neace is choosing to not follow that policy. If officials allow students to be disciplined via grades, then any behavior the teacher disagrees with could then result in a lower grade.There is no way to draw the line. Grades should be based on merit. The student earned full credit. Bad and/or disrespectful behavior should result in disciplinary actions. The student should be held to task for that. Hindsight is 20/20, but instead of all this drama, why not just wake the kid up? If I find myself getting tired, I stand up in the back of the room.

By Victor Vaughan

May 5, 2005 08:36 AM | Link to this

Parent of Dacula High Student: Once again the Nutt and School is in denial of the facts. Dacula reacts to problems with more rules and adminisators that punish the good student and buckel to all the problem students. They cannot maintain decipline and a good learning enviroment at Dacula. Time for change. Quit hiding the facts and numbers.

By Tracey

May 5, 2005 08:47 AM | Link to this

Thanks to the person who pointed out my mistake in attributing the third law of physics to Einstein instead of Sir Isaac Newton, but please do not blame my oversight on Doc. It was simply a goof on my part. Please note that the point is simply that every action has consequences.

By Karen Armsby

May 5, 2005 08:56 AM | Link to this

To Diane F., AMEN! See you at the hearing today at 4:30!

By Gene Walker

May 5, 2005 09:18 AM | Link to this

The real truth is that most administrators consider sleeping in class to be a problem with the teacher, not a problem with the student. A principal will wonder why a teacher allows sleeping but then say “it’s no big deal” when the teacher tries to control it. Go figure.

By Former Parent

May 5, 2005 09:28 AM | Link to this

I am a former parent at Dacula and I to know that they favor athletics. As for Barry Cheek the parent he has always caused problems. “Doc” Neece is a wonderful person and a great teacher. What the system needs to do is get rid of Donn Nutt.

By Former Parent

May 5, 2005 09:42 AM | Link to this

What “Doc” did is absoultely what I would expect him to do to my kid if he or she fell asleep in class. I know for a fact that kids who play in all sports (especially Football) at Dacula are given special treatment. As for the parent, Barry Cheek has been a pain in many peoples side even in the Rec Program at Dacula Park.

“Doc” Neece gives more of his personal time as well as his school time to students. This man has the respect of former students as well. We need to keep all this teacher we have like this and remove all the wimps like Donn Nutt. He doesn’t have this school and its students at heart. If you remember when the kid was stabbed at the beginning of school last year he was not there. He was on vacation with his wife. If I am not mistaken summer vacation was OVER!!!!

It is no surprise that this is happening at Dacula. It is time for a change. Keep “Doc” Neece and remove Donnie Nutt and Kevin Moloff. Donn Nutt should have been let go long long before now.

A NOTE TO THE GCPS SCHOOL BOARD:

DO NOT REMOVE “DOC NEECE” HE IS WHAT OUR STUDENTS NEED. REMOVE DONNIE NUTT AND KEVIN MALOFF.

By Bianca

May 5, 2005 09:44 AM | Link to this

As a former student of Doc’s I find it sad that an educator who cares so much for his students is ousted because a child fell asleep during a lab and then copied the work from his lab partner. I believe that Doc had every right to change the grade. Rules are Rules, the parents of this child agreed to these rules and signed on the dotted line in the course syllubus. Perhaps Someone should check into that before screaming foul. In college labs if you don’t participate in a lab and then copy your lab partners work you are expelled from the school. What are we teaching this Kid? Sleep in class, copy someones paper and you will skate through life? Get a grip!!! Good for you Doc!! Thank you for taking an interest in your students lives by teaching them that you must work for your grades. I commend you on your integrity. Perhaps the Athletic Director and Principle should take some lessons in Honesty and Integrity from you.

By chuck

May 5, 2005 09:59 AM | Link to this

To all of those who think the teacher was wrong in this instance:

1st: If as someone said, the teacher included this grading policy IN HIS SYLLABUS for 10 years, then the PRINCIPAL is in the wrong. A policy that is put in writing that is allowed to continue for 10 years may not agree with Board policy, but it has tacit approval because the principal knew or should have known that the teacher was following this policy. If anyone should be disciplined here, it is the principal for not knowing what was going on in his building. We have to submit a copy of our grading policy to our administrator every year. Teachers have been asked on occasion to change their policies before putting them into writing for parents and students because they didn’t fit the policies of the school or the board. This is a basic administrative responsibility.

2nd: Whether the student was an athlete or not, I don’t think mattered at all to the TEACHER. I think this policy would have been carried out without preference no matter who the student was. He sounds like a great teacher. I don’t think wasting class time is a matter of discipline. It is a legitimate practice to grade students on participation as well as performance. Since the work was completed at home and turned in the next day…well you draw your own conclusions about that.

Quoting from the Board Policy:

“The Board believes that the most important assessment of student learning is conducted by the teachers as they observe and evaluate students in the context of ongoing classroom activities. The teacher has the responsibility for evaluating student progress and providing grades that represent the student’s academic achievement. Grading is not to be used for discipline purposes.�

It seems to me that the teacher, in his observation of the student in an “ongoing classroom activity” found this student to be deficient. Principals who cave in to parents on silly little issues like ONE GRADE can expect to spend ALL of their time handling these types of complaints rather than providing the support that teachers need to provide a quality education. Apparently this principal forgot that he is SUPPORT PERSONNEL, not the front line educator.

By Angie

May 5, 2005 10:04 AM | Link to this

Getting rid of a quality teacher is totally out of line. If the school system wants to improve, the school board should reinstate the teacher, expel the student athlete, and fire the principal and coach. The whiny kid’s father should just go away and accept that his child is an uneducated, useless failure with no future in college or pro sports.

By RS

May 5, 2005 10:20 AM | Link to this

As a former student of Doc Neace, I know first hand what is required of students in his classroom and my fellow classmates and I never had a problem with his policies or high standards. I think that it is criminal that we do not teach students to follow rules and accept responsibility for their actions. Instead the system has created an environment where educators are punished for demanding excellence in the classroom. If the State of Georgia wants to know why they rank so low compared to other states�take a closer look at this incident. Doc Neace is not only a great teacher, but the kind of teacher that Georgia needs in the classroom! I applaud Doc Neace for his dedication to the teaching profession. His class was one you looked forward to because he showed how much fun learning could be, especially a difficult subject such as physics.

By John

May 5, 2005 10:21 AM | Link to this

It is good to know that the Gwinnet County school board is doing such a fine job of teaching students the notions of accountability and responsibility. I wonder if they really believe they are doing this kid or any other student a favor with policies like this.

When these kids get to college, they will struggle even more because they are not being properly prepared. While high-school students are definitely not adults (especially today), they also cannot be pampered which it seems the School Board is doing just to protect themselves.

Grades cannot be used as punishment? Give me a break. That is just the counties way of keeping their pass rate up to get funding. For once, it would be nice to see an elected official have the courage to stand up and do what’s right. Back Mr. Neece, it sounds like he is a fine teacher. I had a Physics teacher just like him and I learned Physics and by God if I had slept through class I would have failed too.

By Karen Armsby

May 5, 2005 10:32 AM | Link to this

OK, now Neal Boortz on WSB AM750 is discussing this most embarrassing situation that Donnie Nutt has precipitated. The whole nation will be tuned into the outcome of the hearing this afternoon. I am crossing my fingers and praying that the School Board restores Doc Neace and replaces our foolish Principal!

By Stupid

May 5, 2005 10:36 AM | Link to this

In every class I can rememeber, there’s been a rule that if you get caught cheating on a test you get a zero. But according to this school’s rule that would not be allowed, since it would consistute punishing the student through grades.

Next up, how about those classes where attendance counts? Is that legal? What about turning in assignments late? Are points still deducted? Or should we just give everyone detention instead?

How ‘bout we all just hold hands, think happy thoughts, and hum?!?!

:o

Boy these kids are gonna have a hard time when they hit the real world.

By Jake

May 5, 2005 10:37 AM | Link to this

David: Thanks for the correction. Perhaps I should have said Einstein is credited with the formulaic expression of the first law of thermodynamics. By the way that should be, “didn’t do so well”, as in obviously your English teacher didn’t do so well either. But I’d rather move on to today’s story about Keene Walker at Tri-Cities, a slightly different spin on a related issue, with race as a secondary issue instead of athletics. Seems to me Neace was just trying to incorporate a little behavioral lessons in with the subject matter grade, whereas Walker wasn’t teaching the curriculum. Fire Walker but make Neace the principal, where his high ethical standards will be even more beneficial to more students.

By Jennifer

May 5, 2005 10:38 AM | Link to this

Someone earlier posted: “However, the board has a policy which states “The Board believes that the most important assessment of student learning is conducted by the teachers as they observe and evaluate students in the context of ongoing classroom activities. The teacher has the responsibility for evaluating student progress and providing grades that represent the student’s academic achievement. Grading is not to be used for discipline purposes.� The teacher cannot arbitrarily develop his own policies in contravention of those policies. “

I agree that teachers should not be arbitrarily developing their own policies in complete disregard to the county guidelines. However, the there is a vagueness in defining “discipline purposes� which, to me, is part of the problem. In my mind, if a student, say, swore at the teacher, and the teacher in turn said “that’s it, you’re getting a 0 on that last test,� that would be using grades as discipline. The right place for the kid is the administrator’s office. But if a teacher has a policy that addresses participation and a student doesn’t participate, the reduced grade is not a disciplinary decision; it’s merely a consequence of the student’s choosing to meet (or not meet) a class requirement. Doc Neace’s policy about sleeping is more similar to this second example than to the first. His wasn’t an arbitrary decision for one particular student on one particular day; it wasn’t to make an example of this student; it was (according to what we’ve read) the natural consequence of what should have been a pretty cut-and-dried cause-and-effect situation. The fact that other students seem to be in agreement that they knew the policy, that it had been applied consistently throughout the year(s), and that it was not new to any of them, should negate any claim that this was a “disciplinary� action. No, it wasn’t. Not in this case. The kid didn’t meet a requirement. The requirement was staying awake. The stated consequence was a zero. Zero issued. It’s a shame that the story doesn’t end there, but instead has carried over to this mess.

Does that mean that any teacher should be able to say to any given student, “you slept today, you get a zero on x, y, or z assignment�? Absolutely not! But in Doc’s case, it was an established rule, it had been in place for years, followed fairly and consistently (as far as we know) for years … it was clearly not arbitrary.
Gwinnett County does a wonderful job… most of the time. Please, GCPS, do the right thing, and follow common sense on this one. Doc Neace was right and should be back in the classroom. Then, maybe the bigger request is to please look into some of the bigger issues that form the root of this problem. It seems like something is amiss at Dacula High School – and who knows what it might be, but it’s worth looking into trying to find it, and fix it.

One last thought: by removing Doc Neace, aren’t we just as much punishing his remaining students as we are punishing him? Who is “highly qualified� and in his room in this oh-so-important end-of-the-year rush toward final exams? That is another injustice that no one has seemed to mention, but I can’t imagine that finding a substitute for science is that easy to do. The kids are suffering, and that’s wrong on a whole different level.

By Kerry

May 5, 2005 10:53 AM | Link to this

The principal abused his authority and now must fired and banned from further employment in the government schools. Furthermore, I hope the already reduced grade is changed to a zero. Almost forgot, Mr. Neace’s classroom policy should be adopted district wide.
Give’em hell Neal.

By Jessica Cronic

May 5, 2005 11:15 AM | Link to this

I had Doc Neace last year for physics. Yes, he is a very tough teacher- but let’s think about something here, physics is a hard class. Doc is the best science teacher I’ve ever had. He made the class interesting and fun. Whenever I had a question, which was pretty much every day, he never turned me away. When he sees that a student actually makes an attempt to succeed in his class, he does everything in his power to help that student out. The first day of school usually consists of going over rules of the class and the syllabus. Doc has always said that if you fall asleep in class, or you cheat, or you don’t pay attention (i.e. if you are doing math homework in physics class) that you WILL receive a zero for that assignment. Wesley Cheek is lucky to have gotten half credit!!!

By MC

May 5, 2005 11:18 AM | Link to this

Finally, a teacher standing up to the machoism of school athletes. I’m tired of athletes getting special treatment just so a school can win the state championship. Hopefully the courts will see the same view as I do. Give this teacher his job back. Let the spoiled brat get the grade the teacher gave him. You sleep; you lose.

By John

May 5, 2005 11:22 AM | Link to this

Something our snoozing student probably does not know, but part of the scientific process is to formulate a hypothesis about something you don’t know as a fact. I then hypothesize that this all came about because the student probably went home and whined to Mommy and Daddy that he was being treated like an adult and received a bad grade. I further postulate that Mommy and Daddy went to see the principle and pressured him in ways that only irrational parents can. The principle then being of little back bone, figured he could just do away with this by asking Mr. Neace to change the grade. It would be easier for everybody involved. But of course Mr. Neace would have nothing to do with it. So now the principle has to react or he looks like even more of a push over.

Of course this is just a hypothesis, the next step would be to design an experiment and test this hypothesis, but alas I am tired — I think its time for a nap!

By Lisa Gray

May 5, 2005 11:24 AM | Link to this

Discipline is a distinct and separate concept from a grade on an assignment. There are punishments established by the schools for such incidences as falling asleep in school. What that Dacula teacher did is akin to taking away an Olympic champion’s score on an event because he fell down after his event was over.

By b

May 5, 2005 11:38 AM | Link to this

“Finally, a teacher standing up to the machoism of school athletes. I’m tired of athletes getting special treatment just so a school can win the state championship. Hopefully the courts will see the same view as I do. Give this teacher his job back. Let the spoiled brat get the grade the teacher gave him. You sleep; you lose.”

What makes you think that anyone has the right to lower that students grade? The student should have been given detention not a bad grade. Nothing is different with an athelete. They get treated the same as everyone else.

By Jason Pritchett

May 5, 2005 11:40 AM | Link to this

I attended Dacula from ‘87 to ‘91 and I have too much I could say for Doc Neace, so I will be at the hearing in person today to express those thoughts.
I wish to comment on the “priviledged athletes” quotes by some dating back into the 80’s. Obviously, much of the hubub stems from the complaining student being a football player. One word in Principal Nutt’s defense [and ONE is all you’re gonna get from me], is that he responded when a stink was raised to him. He did not decide to interfere because he saw an athlete in trouble of not making the team. He responded when this kid and his parents realized what was at stake for their own short-comeing, and raised a fuss. The other students who have received zero or 50 percent, realized they were at fault, and took responsibility for their actions. That is what is lacking here. There was a time, from about ‘85 to ‘93, when Coach Mike Strickland held athletes to a higher standard than others. As well as monitoring grades and having daily study hall, he had a strict policy that all football players must sit on the first or second row of class! If that wasn’t enough to keep you paying attention, and you drifted off, you would likely get WHACKED by one of your teammates sitting next to you. You were lucky if you had such a friend present, because Heaven forbid they or the teacher should decide just to inform Coach Powell, team “Academic Disciplinarian.” Coach Powell and Doc Neace are 2 of the 4 teachers left from that time, It looks like there should be more like them.

By High school teacher

May 5, 2005 11:40 AM | Link to this

Contrary to popular belief, sleeping in class is not in the school discipline codes. In this day of guns and gangs in school, writing students up for sleeping in class is laughable. However, sleeping in class should not be a disciplinary issue; it is an academic issue. How can a student possibly complete an assignment with the proper information if he or she sleeps in class? Lowering a grade for sleeping is not a disciplinary punishment; it is an academic consequence.

By Jim

May 5, 2005 11:45 AM | Link to this

It is hardly akin to penalizing the Olympic athlete who fell down after the event. The purpose of the science laboratory is to have someone get concrete and hands on knowledge about how to make inquiries about how the natural world works. This requires someone not to be asleep during the experiment. I never had a physics lab with Doc where there was much time for sleeping if you were careful with your work. What this is a akin to is an athlete getting the gold metal who has not really run the race.

Another thought - what kind of lesson are we teaching this student? When the student snoozes in an important meeting in his future job, do you think he will be able to go to the principal and get his evaluation changed?

By Jessica Cronic

May 5, 2005 12:04 PM | Link to this

All you people who keep saying that the kid deserved a 100 because he fell asleep are completely out of line.

“What that Dacula teacher did is akin to taking away an Olympic champion’s score on an event because he fell down after his event was over.” -Lisa Gray

HELLO! A lab is a participation grade. He fell asleep DURING the lab. How the heck did he turn the assignment in perfect if he didn’t do the lab. One can only imagine that the kid cheated off of someone else’s paper to get the right answers. So not only did Wesley fall asleep in class, but he also cheated! Doc Neace should be given an award for putting his foot down against Principal Nutt. Like Justin Tomasini has written on his shirt today, “Doc Neace: A man with principle in a school without one!”

By Susan

May 5, 2005 12:05 PM | Link to this

I teach at a middle school in Gwinnett and we know we can’t lower a grade because of behavior. This started a few years ago with the Truth in Grading policies. However, we also have to turn in our classroom discipline procedures in August to be reviewed by the administration, so I have to wonder how the principal could have not have known about this for so many years! It would be appropriate for some other consequence to be given to the student, such as in-school suspension, etc. I don’t blame “Doc” one bit and I agree with his discipline policy, even though the County doesn’t. It is immensely frustrating to continually have to deal with students who don’t take classes seriously and don’t see a problem with their behavior. I can also attest to athletes being given preferential treatment, so that also needs to be addressed. Susan

By I before E

May 5, 2005 12:12 PM | Link to this

Public schools are not what they used to be. The current polices and lack of discipline in public schools is propagating generations of poorly educated idiots. I shuddered when reading many of the comments posted here, as they are full of misspelled words, poor grammar, etc. Neal Boortz is right to rant on the state of public schools today.

By Mark Peevy

May 5, 2005 12:23 PM | Link to this

I’m both a former student of Doc Neace and a football player at DHS, and for the record I fully support Doc’s position and will be rooting for him to be re-instated this afternoon. He is undoubtedly one of the best teachers I ever had (including my college professors after 4 yrs at Princeton), and from my experience there was never any confusion about his grading policy.

I understand the difficulties of playing a sport and still trying to maintain solid grades (I also played football in college), but athletics are a privilege and a choice that each person makes. Getting a solid education is the main purpose for being in School, and Doc Neace never let us forget it. He was always willing to help any student who was willing to help themselves, and I stand behind him firmly in this situation.

Parental responsibility is one of the issues here: If my child came home with a bad grade as a result of sleeping in class, my first reaction would be to tell him to accept responsibility for his own actions and don’t go to sleep next time.

By MD

May 5, 2005 12:26 PM | Link to this

I stand behind this teacher 100%. I don’t know all of the circumstances, but I remember a few years ago when one of our administrators entered my classroom to complete my yearly teacher evaluation. I receive a poor evaluation because one of my students was sleeping in class. We can’t make our students stay awake. We can’t make them bring their books to class. We can’t make them open their books during class. We can’t make them do anything they don’t want to do! But if they fail their graduation test, it’s because we are not doing our jobs. PARENTS, STUDENTS, AND ADMINISTRATORS WON’T ALLOW US TO DO OUR JOB!

By Former Dacula Student

May 5, 2005 12:27 PM | Link to this

I graduated DHS a few years ago and my brother graduated 4 years after me. We both are out of state with the military or we would be there for the hearing. Doc is a wonderful teacher. And you’re told up front that you go by the rules or you pay the consequences. But it’s no surprise that a football player is involved in a grades dispute at Dacula. This has been going on since before I was at the school. It was always such a joke watching the football players try to come up with their homework or daily assignments at the last minute. And then give the excuse of practice got in the way. Excuse me but I was involved in quite a few afterschool activities, as was my little brother, and almost all of my friends. And we managed to get our work done on time and succeed. I was in almost every band the school had. Marching band alone had practices at least 3 afternoons a week, more depending on what instrument you played. Not to mention all of the practice we had to get in at home. And we were there Friday afternoons and Friday nights for games. And we would spend quite a few Saturdays, sometimes fron Saturday morning until the early hours of Sunday, away at competitions. And during this time, not only were we having to memorize music and marching for football and competition but we were also having to learn music for concerts. We kept our grades up so that we could participate. No one had to tell us otherwise. Fortunately I never had to deal with Donnie Nutt. He wasn’t there for me. But he was there when my little brother was. From what I’ve heard, the man is a joke. Put Doc back in the classroom where he belongs. Put Donnie Nutt out of the school system.

This is from the DHS website, located under Principal’s Office. “Our motto is “Focused on Learning.â€? Our goal is to provide a world class education for all students. We have a fantastic staff committed to continuous improvement and to serving the needs of all students. We continue to challenge our students with a rigorous curriculum. As a result, we have seen record numbers of students taking Advanced Placement, Gifted and Honors courses. Another factor in student success is parental and community involvement. We are fortunate to have both community support and parents willing to help. Our most successful students are involved in activities outside of the classroom. We encourage all students to get involved in extra-curricular activities and community service. Most students participate in clubs, student organizations, athletics, fine arts programs or student government. Many devote untold hours to community service through activities such as “Hands Together Dacula.â€? In addition, students must feel safe and secure to perform at their best. We do not tolerate disruptions to our learning environment. We continually review our safety and security plans to make sure our students are given the best opportunity to be successful.

In closing, I am very proud to be the Principal of Dacula High School where expectations are high and where all students are expected to be successful.”

By I'm With Her

May 5, 2005 12:55 PM | Link to this

And also along with what Former Dacula Student said, most of us in the marching band also held after school jobs. And we managed to make the grades. More than a few of us are successful in our careers. Football won’t always get you where you want to go in life. But an education you’ve earned can.

By RSALINE

May 5, 2005 01:49 PM | Link to this

DONNIE NUTT NEEDS TO GO. THERE IS A PETITION ONLINE @ WWW.IPETETIONS.COM/CAMPAIGNS/DMS TO SUPPORT DOC. GO THERE!!!!!

By Linda

May 5, 2005 02:11 PM | Link to this

RSALINE: Correction to what you entered above:(http://www.ipetitions.com/campaigns/DMS)

I don’t know Dr. Neace, but I intend to go to the Gwinnett County Board of Education today at 4:30 to show my support. I hope I have the opportunity to shake his hand, and THANK HIM for being a wonderful educator or 23 years!

By Linda

May 5, 2005 02:14 PM | Link to this

RSALINE: Correction to what you entered above:(http://www.ipetitions.com/campaigns/DMS)

I don’t know Dr. Neace, but I intend to go to the Gwinnett County Board of Education today at 4:30 to show my support. I hope I have the opportunity to shake his hand, and THANK HIM for being a wonderful educator of 23 years!

By PB

May 5, 2005 02:18 PM | Link to this

The teacher informed the students of his policy at the beginning of the year. He should not be asked to change the grade. The student should accept the penalty and change his behavior. I commend this teacher for encouraging the students to accept responsibility. He should be allowed to continue to teach.

By Borus

May 5, 2005 02:36 PM | Link to this

As I teacher of 7 years, I can say that this happens all the time. Remember back a few years ago when the biology teacher in Kansas failed an entire class of kids who copied their papers right off the internet? The school board forced her to change the grades. When she refused, she was fired.

School is no longer about teaching kids subject matter, how to learn or how to function in the real world. It’s all about how loud mom and dad will yell when discipline or grades are addressed.

Of course it’s no surprise that a football player is at the center of this mess. At my school, we have a leaky roof and broken windows, but the football team is getting a 1.5 million dollar field house next year.

By WT

May 5, 2005 02:37 PM | Link to this

Does anyone here know how to spell?

It is “athlete”, not “athelete”.

Government schools, look what they produce. Can’t spell, can’t allow a teacher to teach.

Undermining the teacher’s authority is not the answer to the miserable situation of todays government school system. How are we supposed to teach our children about responsibility and accountability of our actions?

By Larry

May 5, 2005 02:37 PM | Link to this

After reading all of the posted comments I have come to the conclusion that this principal is in the wrong. However, I hope that ‘Doc’s’ suspension becomes permanent and that he moves to North Carolina…we need excellent and highly qualified science teachers! I don’t think that the school system in Georgia deserves one of his quality.

p.s. you can keep the principal…we don’t need any more like him.

By Pinky

May 5, 2005 02:50 PM | Link to this

The problems with government schools:

By LDR

May 5, 2005 03:11 PM | Link to this

WT: Use grammar check (today’s versus todays) before you blast someone else for a misspelled word! You used improper grammar… what does that make you? This is a BLOG. People are likely fired up over the idea of a GOOD teacher being fired!

Larry: We want the teacher at one of the other schools in Gwinnett county (Parkview). Thankfully we love GOOD teachers at our local high school!

By Suwanee

May 5, 2005 03:17 PM | Link to this

This has been a fascinating read. On one hand, some people want policy followed to the letter of the law, which would be right if the law has been followed to the letter over the length of the policy’s 10 year history. Others want to vilify the sports program, coach and student player in question, along with his indulgent parents, reinstate the teacher and tar and feather the principal.

This is such a telling situation on so many levels about today’s educational problems. My stepson slept his way through most of his classes in a Houston, TX high school and ended up repeating his senior year two and a half times because they wouldn’t give him a by. By “half”, I mean that his last attempt to finish was made during summer school.

He was sleeping because he had no supervision at home in the evening and was doing just about anything he pleased. His mother and stepfather spent every evening out due to their need not to see each other. Unfortunately, and try as we might, we could not get him to come to Atlanta. Why? Because he knew his fancy-free days would be over. He finally got his GED in the Navy but now at 25, he still has not found his way or a profession. We helped him with money in the beginning, but stopped because we realized we were contributing to his problems rather than insisting that he face being an adult. He has never paid back a dime and still only calls “to talk” when he hopes to receive another loan. The calls are getting fewer and fewer.

The Dacula student’s parents are wrong and the principal is wrong in supporting them, I don’t care what the policy in place. They are doing a serious disservice to their son as are other parents who don’t look at their kid and say, “You should have thought about the consequences when you goofed off or spent the night out with your buddies rather than sleeping so you’d be awake in class.” Life sucks sometimes. All teachers bend the rules when they find a personal policy that produces results. School Boards regularly look the other way to support them. Dismissing a teacher whose 10-year old policies were known and allowed because a student’s parents objected to his being called on the carpet for admitted behavior and questionable test results is the futher insanity known as the Georgia School System. I’d venture a guess that protecting football support money may be behind the principal’s stance, but then it’s only a guess. I hope this kid does better than my stepson. By the way, he was also in football.

By Student

May 5, 2005 03:39 PM | Link to this

I was in Doc’s class last semester with the football player in question. He was NOT favored. Neace did not like football players and you could tell. This kid was only one of the many kids who slept in class. Never had I heard that if you slept you received a zero on an assignment. I feel bad that this player is getting a bad reputation when he didn’t do anything different then anyone else in the class.

By rita

May 5, 2005 04:12 PM | Link to this

Times have really changed. The educational system is going to the dogs. When will we start holding children accountable for their actions and when will parents start being parents and stop being servants to their children desires. We say we value a good education…as long as it does not interfer with our children’s social life. Hey, why not just let the children teach themselves since they make rules…..

By Robin

May 5, 2005 04:37 PM | Link to this

Hey “Student”,

Or should I refer to you as Wesley?

Don’t sweat it kid. The only thing you really need to learn is how to say,

“Would you like fries with that?”

By ron lane

May 5, 2005 04:58 PM | Link to this

And people wonder why Georgia students are at the bottom of everyone’s education list! Teachers can’t teach, they have to baby-sit. At least, give them the authority to grade their students. I guess we don’t want our kids to learn, “If you snooze, you lose.” Oh yeah, the politicians and administrators don’t want them to be responsible for their actions. Sad.

By Former Player / Student

May 5, 2005 05:12 PM | Link to this

As a football player at Dacula and a student under Doc, between ‘91 to ‘95, I remember players getting extra sprint drills for crap like this. I’m sure the running after practice really helped refine and tune the minds of those disrespectful jocks that drifted off to sleep during class everyday. Nutt, and Lason before him, let Coach Maloof run that school. Athletes, students, and teachers alike knew it. Most teachers preferred the coaches’ methods anyway b/c parents didn’t get upset. It takes a guy with guts and convictions like Doc Nease to stand-up to this backwards practice.

By Mark Faul

May 6, 2005 08:08 AM | Link to this

This is really a bad policy. Academics first, always. A teacher has few options in the classroom and good teachers must use all options avaalable to them. I am going to write a formal letter to the dweebs at the Gwinnett County schoolboard.

Suwanee Resident Mark Faul, Ph.D.

By TJ Smith

May 6, 2005 08:15 AM | Link to this

There is a reason Georgia ranks towards the bottom of the nation in education and this is a prime example. God help us if our teachers who are trying to get students to learn accountability are submarined by a school board intent only on protecting prima donna athletes. While I do agree that insubordination is serious, there are individuals in our past who have had to be ‘insubordinate’ to make the right things happen: William Wallace, Martin Luther King, Jr., the student standing in front of the tanks in Tianimen Square, etc. I have to go with the teacher on this one.

By dictatortot4u

May 6, 2005 08:16 AM | Link to this

These ppl who voted to fire Doc-are they products of the Georgia public education system? Because they aren’t too bright.

On the flipside, Doc can now go to work with pride in another school system who appreciates good teachers! Some place where showing up for class doesn’t count as “class participation”!

By Kurt Schofield

May 6, 2005 08:17 AM | Link to this

And Georgia school administrators scratch their head and wonder why Georgia ranks so low nationwide. When I was in high school, sleeping in class would have earned an instant eraser shot to the head! Why can’t bureaucrats and atheletes figure out that education is more important than policies and sports.

By Timothy O'Kennon

May 6, 2005 08:18 AM | Link to this

The action taken by the Gwinnett School Board clearly underscores the priorities of the school system: athletics before academics. Who always seem to receive the accolades? The athletes. The scholars are simply known as the nerds. This teacher is not only teaching the students, but he is preparing them for their future under his guidelines in his classroom. For this he is fired?

This school board needs to examine their agenda back up one of their own.

By Ken

May 6, 2005 08:20 AM | Link to this

Boy oh boy…you talk about a principal who doesn’t want his “star athlete” failing. This is a cut-and-dry matter. Doc emphasized his rules over 10 years ago. This matter is only being emphasized because the student is a star athlete. The principal should be the one getting fired, not the teacher.
Doc…I am behind you 150% on this one! If I were in your class, I fell asleep…h*ll, through a tennis ball to my face! Give me a penalty of a zero or cut my grade in half. I would deserve it. This principal/staff have far exceeded their boundaries and each and every one of them who supported the principal…fire all of them and start from scratch with REAL educators!

By Tee

May 6, 2005 08:21 AM | Link to this

I agree with the teacher. Children must learn what is acceptable and that rules must be followed and that just because you can throw a football, make a perfect 3 pointer, hit a home run or pitch a no-hitter doesn’t mean the rules don’t apply to you. If we let our children get away with not following the rule we are setting them up to fail in life… and maybe just maybe giving them the idea that it’s okay to rob, rape or steal just because they think the rules shouldn’t apply to them….

By Jeff M, Suwanee

May 6, 2005 08:21 AM | Link to this

Just another classic case of parents and administrators caving in and giving into what the kid ultimately desires, and that is no consequences. And then we wonder why there are so many problems in the schools. If these kids aren’t afraid of consequences, what the heck do you think is going to stop them? The “policy” of Gwinnett is ridiculous…the teacher should be able to set his or her own rules. There were no physical consequences, so everything else should be fair game. Good luck Gwinnett County Schools…I hope your attitude of “Teachers opinions do not matter in the least” comes back to bite you ten-fold.

By Ann

May 6, 2005 08:21 AM | Link to this

No child left behind? What if they don’t want to go?! Until parents put education as a priority classroom teachers will become more ineffective and eventually obselete. Within the next five years there will be no more veteren teachers; the novices will leave the profession within the first five years. Then who can be blamed?

By Robin

May 6, 2005 08:23 AM | Link to this

I graduated from Dacula in 1997 and Doc had the same policy then as he did now. No one had a problem with it. I remember a specific incident where one student failed the class her senior year and had to retake it in summer school. There wasn’t a problem with that…but of course, she wasn’t a football player. I belived Doc totally. He is a great teacher and I know all his students have benefited from his teaching. I feel sorry for his students now, who have lost a wonderful teacher, and I feel sorry for the students in the future who will not be able to benefit from his class. I am not surprised that this happened. Football players have always had special treatment at Dacula…at all Gwinnett County schools. Football is king and what they want, they get. And I’m not surprised that Mr. Wilbanks recommended firing him. Wilbanks has ruined the entire school system with his policies and decisions. He, and the system’s messed up policies, are the sole reason I kept far away from Gwinnett when I was applying for teaching jobs.

By Former Parent

May 6, 2005 08:24 AM | Link to this

As a former parent of a graduate and also athlete of DHS, this doesn’t surprise me at all. Unless you are totally ignoarant every parent knows this goes on at DHS and has since Maloof….oh I mean Nutt has taken on the so called “principal” role. My daughter had “Doc” Neace and loved him. She knew the rules which were clearly defined from the beginning of each and every school year. We as parents didn’t run to her rescue when problems arose. Can we not see that parents running to the rescue of their children is the cause of all the madness among teenagers these days. We don’t have bad kids we have bad parents. No accountability. Dan Seckinger and Carol Boyce (both of which have or had students and athletes at DHS) need to remember that these are “elected” positions and also how can Mr. Wilbanks support the decision to fire such a wonderful educator. GCS is going down hill in a hurry. Do we not remember the “dangerous school list”????????????????? Hello folks…..can we not see what the problem is with GCS schools and especially DHS?????????????

By Linda

May 6, 2005 08:26 AM | Link to this

I fully support the firing of this teacher. If the student completed the work as assigned, he should not be penalized for “appearing” to be asleep. This teacher should have contacted the students parents if he felt there were issues that he could not/would not allow in his classroom. Teachers do not care about teaching the students nowadays; all they care about is bringing home the pay check and getting the schools fringe benefits. Teachers should have no involvement in discipline of the students as they are emotionally charged and cannot act rationally when it comes to discipline the students; the student should be sent to the Principals office if they are being “disrespectful” of the teacher or the teachers rules. Hurray for the school board for “discipling” a disrespectful teacher for a change.

By patty

May 6, 2005 08:28 AM | Link to this

As a teacher in Gwinnett myself, I am deeply disturbed that the board fired the teacher . This sends out a message to parents that if your child sleeps in class and receives a zero, you can have that changed.A lab requires participation, if you are sleeping that is not participation. It is apparent that he copied his work from another.If people wonder what is wrong with education these days look at the leaders

By Greg

May 6, 2005 08:28 AM | Link to this

In light of the insubordination, this teacher should have been fired.

Its to bad because the students really like him. Instead of thinking that he could do whatever he wanted, he should have approached the board with his ideas first before implementing his own doctrine.

Maybe he could have gotten the board to see things his way. Maybe the board could have taken a look at his ideas and utilized some of his instructions.

There was no way that he was going to win by his pigheaded ways.

No matter what, a person can not tell the boss how they are going to do the job and basically tell the boss I am not going to comply with the rules.

He basically wrote his own pinkslip.

Its strange, but now the story is that he “thought” the student was sleeping, and that there was another student sleeping as well.

Sounds like this guy is a great teacher that just may be a little to full of himself. Maybe he thought he deserved “pampered” status.

Greg

By Rich

May 6, 2005 08:29 AM | Link to this

I applaud Neace for taking this action. If his classroom rules are clearly stated at the outset, what is the harm in enforcing them? That’s the way it was when I was in school, and it seemed to work just fine. Without some form of control, any teacher faces academic anarchy. For the principal and school to fall back on litigation is nothing short of a modern-day crutch. Let’s stop pampering student athletes and let this man do his job, which he appears to have done very well for quite a long time.

By Russell

May 6, 2005 08:31 AM | Link to this

Hooray for the teacher..keep it up. Fire the Administrators and get someone in there who believes and stands for education, equality, and discipline.

By Robin

May 6, 2005 08:31 AM | Link to this

SOmeone cannot be penalized for work already completed. If the student fell asleep during class in which an assignemnt was given then that student would not be able to complete assignment, thus resulting in a poor grade. Grades are an indication of the type of work a student does, not whether or not a certain rule was followed. If the teacher wants to keep a student from sleeping in class then he should have a class participation grade not reduce a grade on a homework assignment.

By Dacula Resident

May 6, 2005 08:31 AM | Link to this

Residents of Dacula - put your money where your mouth is. Do not support Dacula Football - do not go the games or participate in any fundraising activities.

Parents and students of Dacula High - Maybe this incident took place for a reason. Demand an investigation be done regarding the favorotism of athletes by Nutt and Coach Maloof’s control over the administration.

They may have won this round - but in the end the truth will come out, and Nutt and Maloof will be the ones without jobs with one difference - no school system in their right mind will ever want them,

As for Doc - good luck to you and congratulations to the school system who wins you on staff. You rock!

By Carla

May 6, 2005 08:32 AM | Link to this

We just moved out of Gwinnett County because of their degenerating school system. This just reaffirms our decision. Wilbanks was a good ol’ boy tyrant when I attended Gwinnett County Schools and remains that way to this day.

By Warren

May 6, 2005 08:34 AM | Link to this

This is great, once again our government schools are excelling at preparing our young people to compete in the real world. If this young man graduates, and came to work for me, and fell asleep I would fire him. In the real world bad behavior results in bad consequences. They are supposed to learn that in school. In this instance, what they are learning, is that if you are in a special class (sports) do what you want, and the administration will defend you!!

By Kevin

May 6, 2005 08:35 AM | Link to this

This is an excellent example of what is wrong with the school system period. A 23 year veteran teacher with loads of respect and admiration gets fired for one transgretion that is questionable at best. We pay our teachers nothing and expect them to work miracles! Then when they figure out a way to do that we punish them. The entire school board and the administration of Dacula HS should all be ashamed of themselves. The decision to fire this teacher is deplorable one and needs to be corrected. The thought that the staff at Dacula knew nothing about this 10 year policy is ludacris and warrants their dismissal as well….it’s only right since the policy is such a big deal. 10 years ago this may have been an apprpriate action, but to knowingly allowing this teacher to institute and enforce the policy implies consent and agreement. Since it wasn’t an issue then, it shouldn’t be an issue now.

By Martin Gravely

May 6, 2005 08:37 AM | Link to this

I hated Doc’s class (chemistry), but I thought Doc was an incredible teacher. Very motivational and VERY funny!
This “jock strap” got what he deserved. It’s about time a teacher at Dacula had the nerve to overshadow a ‘jock’s grades!!! Go Doc!!! — class of 1991

By D Boyd

May 6, 2005 08:37 AM | Link to this

What happened to the day when teachers had respect from students? Now we have fired a good teacher because of a student athlete falling asleep in a classroom. This goes to show that America has no desire to properly discipline children. I am so sick of people not taking responsibility for their actions. Folks our schools have real problems, low SAT scores, lack of funding for teachers, drugs, hate crimes and kids that can’t read. But I forgot the little rich kids that play football daddy will take care of them.

By Jennifer

May 6, 2005 08:38 AM | Link to this

To Tomi towards the top and any other who has failed to hear what the teacher instructed this child to do……the student HAD NOT completed the work BEFORE he went to sleep. He got the class instruction for work to be done and DIDN’T DO IT PERIOD! He said “F that”, I’m going to sleep….So you know what, athelete or not, he deserved a lower grade. If anyone listens to Q100, the teacher this morning said himself that had the student DONE THE WORK BEFORE going to sleep, he wouldn’t have lowered the grade because the WORK WOULD HAVE BEEN DONE! Why people are missing that is amazing to me, maybe you all and people defending sleeping in class as “no big deal” are ones who slept in class themselves. Because you know what happens? Those kids who fell asleep then want the help from the students who didn’t fall asleep and that’s when cheating and favortisim begins. It’s a terrible pattern to delevlop and teachers are with our childern more than we are as parents throughout the day. It is our job to make sure we are in agreement with the teachers to make everyone’s job easier, ESPECIALLY when it comes to teenagers. Of course there are execptions when the teachers are incorrect, however this is not the time and the principal and anyone above him should be ashamed and humble themselves. My child is 5 and when he doesn’t do what the class is supposed to do, he gets in trouble at home and he will continue to get in trouble if he’s not following class instruction PERIOD! I have two brothers in high school and my parents are the same way with them as they were with me….Not following class instruction is not optional, sorry and if class instruction said to do the work FIRST, then you better do the work FIRST!. Get a grip and we wonder why GA is one of the lowest rated states for school scores. Parents need to stop being so lazy. Don’t have teachers teaching and raising your kids for you, then you step in when you don’t like something….Where were you BEFORE the problem started?

By Brian Rowell

May 6, 2005 08:39 AM | Link to this

The teacher should not have been fired—the principal (and for that matter all of the board members that voted for termination) should be terminated for their spineless failure to back what seems to be an excellent teacher!!

By Joe

May 6, 2005 08:40 AM | Link to this

This is a prime example of why public school systems are sub par for learning and getting worse by the day.

This teacher should be applauded for his actions and covictions. We need more teachers just like DOC. More displine means better learning !!!!!!

This action is nothing more than the “Tail wagging the Dog “

By Travis

May 6, 2005 08:40 AM | Link to this

Tommi is clueless. He/she said:

That’s like having a salary that you have already earned taken away because you come into work late or fall asleep on the job.

Well duh, if you work for me an fall asleep on the job, I fire you!

By Jon

May 6, 2005 08:40 AM | Link to this

…and we wonder why Georgia always ranks at the bottom in education every year.

By ron

May 6, 2005 08:43 AM | Link to this

What a way to de-moralize a wonderful and needed profession! The GCPS School Board just redefined World Class, teachers are no more important than a piece of furniture or trailer.

How long does a football career last, undoubtedly longer than a teaching career!

By Patrick Kelley

May 6, 2005 08:44 AM | Link to this

The idiocy of our school systems in this country never cease to amaze me. The principal in Pickens County, GA was fired earlier this week for grasping a child’s mouth as she escorted him to the disciplinary office. He was cursing obsenities in the presence of his fellow 3rd grade classmates.

By C. Warfel

May 6, 2005 08:44 AM | Link to this

The 5 idiots who voted to fire this teacher must have felt a special bond with the sleeping student. Perhaps they used to sleep through their classes too.

By DJB

May 6, 2005 08:45 AM | Link to this

It really is a shame that the teacher is punished for violating a policy of the school board which apparently is not conducive to the discipline of the system. The teacher broke a rule, but his rule was understood by all and respected by all. In this case, the school board rule which was broken was obviously more important to the board than the discipline in the school. Through all my years in education, grades have been affected by behavior and degree of compliance will the standards established for the individual classrooms. Rather than relaxing the standards and tehir enforcement, we shol dbe maintaining and strengthening them!

By Armond

May 6, 2005 08:45 AM | Link to this

I don’t think the Teacher should be fired. He passed out a syllabus and informed students before the first class session began not to fall asleep or play in class. This would lead to half a grade or a zero. This Teacher is perparing students for College. In college, you get the syllabus and abide by it. There is no arguing a grade against it. This will only lead to bad habits that SOME Athletes have in college and in life. The Teacher didn’t make an example of the student. This stood for every student, athlete or not.

By theresa

May 6, 2005 08:47 AM | Link to this

the teacher violated board policy in using grades as punishment and in my opinion the board acted appropriately in firing him. rules should be changed not broken. thank you.

By Josh

May 6, 2005 08:49 AM | Link to this

A teacher should never be fired for not giving grades. If the student decides to sleep in class, he has decided that he wants to fail. I played football, baseball, and wrestled in high school and my mother excepted nothing less than my best, why should we expect less of our students/children? I believe that the Principal and the Super Intendant should be reprimanded for such an act and the teacher should be allowed to retain his job.

By AHall

May 6, 2005 08:49 AM | Link to this

Now I understand why our school system ranks 49th. We should make this teacher head of the state school system.

By Stephanie

May 6, 2005 08:49 AM | Link to this

IF the teacher was well aware of the school policy then he in fact violated the school policy by refusing to restore the student’s grade. However, I feel that the teacher should have had an immediate remedy he could have used to punish the student for sleeping in class. We have allowed discipline to become so slack in schools that students do not care if they receive a quality education. They are concerned with only what makes them happy for that moment

By Rob Tallis

May 6, 2005 08:50 AM | Link to this

I think that it is a shame that a teacher get fired for giving a student athlete a “zero”. This is exactly why I stopped pursuing my education degree. There are to many politics involved in teaching today. The school board needs to lets its teachers teach. Had this been an everday student and not an athlete, there wouldn’t have been any issue with the punishment. Athletes in school need to realize that they can’t just get by with their athletic abilities. We need to stop babying athletes. The school board needs to reverse its decision before they lose a very good teacher

By Denise

May 6, 2005 08:50 AM | Link to this

Parents are teaching their children that they are responsible for nothing in this world. If things do not go your way, threaten to sue. This physics teacher is the type of person we need to make sure these little princes and princesses better prepared to face the world. Nothing is given to you and sometime nothing is fair either

By Robin

May 6, 2005 08:51 AM | Link to this

Wesley, I hope the community will always remember this and what a whiny little brat you and your parents are. I’m sure colleges will be flocking to recruit you to play for them, with your “Daddy, I wasn’t treated fair” whining. Maybe your wuss of a dad can just complain over every ref call that does not go in your favor.

Just remember this, you don’t need physics lab knowledge to ask,

“Would you like fries with that?”

By Fred

May 6, 2005 08:51 AM | Link to this

Bravo to the teacher. The school is out of line. What do they want their students to do grow up to sleep on the job and through life? Get a clue principal. Maybe the principal is sleeping at his desk behind closed doors. What a joke of a decision. To fire this teacher is a shame. This country/Gwinnet county needs leaders who will stand up and hold people (students included) accountable for their actions. Quit this thinking and attitude that the world and everyone else owes you everything. Get some guts and stay awake in class like everyone else in class. Sleep when you are playing football and see how far that coach lets you sleep. Geezz! This is pathectic and disgusting.

By Veronica Spellman

May 6, 2005 08:51 AM | Link to this

You “snooze”; you “lose”. That is a fact in life and needs to be learned in school. The sooner our students get the message, the better off they will be in the workplace. Congratulations to Mr. Neace. More people need to take a stand!!!

By Daniela

May 6, 2005 08:52 AM | Link to this

Good, knowlegable, physics teachers are difficult to find in any state. Teachers that hold students accountable for their actions are the best of the best. Gwinnett County will do the students a disfavor by firing “Doc” and keeping a principal who does not know his teachers, but apparently knows his athlete’s parents. Larry has taught for 23 years, a dedicated teacher who know his subject, works hard to make it interesting, has integrity and dedication. So, by giving a student partial credit for sleeping in class, he loses all that. Mr Wilbanks, I thought you were there to support the teachers. Dr. Crews, former superintendent,once told me that he felt that it was his job to support the teachers because that “was where the tire hits the road.” The principal needs to learn what his job really is about.

By Greg

May 6, 2005 08:52 AM | Link to this

People here are forgetting the facts.

Its not about this student athlete its about a teacher going above the board and doing his own thing outside set guidelines.

Who cares if this teacher has done this for 10 years. It was wrong 10 years ago and its wrong now. Maybe no one spoke up about it because they thought nothing would be done. The fact is that his policy went against the rules.

If Dacula High is pampering its athletes, then its a different subject from this incident. Parents, teachers and gwinnett residents need to bring this to the board with facts to back this issue.

Sounds like this issue with the pampering of athletes pre-dates this teachers policy.

Why haven’t parents and others taken this to the board back then? Probably for the same reason no one complained about this teachers policy.

Greg

By Anthony Wilkins

May 6, 2005 08:53 AM | Link to this

What else is new? Good thing the legislature didn’t pass legislation this past session prohibiting any pressure for a teacher to change a grade. Wonder if the EOCTs, GHSGT,SAT scores,etc. will be “fixed” too? Athletes & other politically correct students ( of influential parents/ grandparents,school board member relatives, country club member children, legislator relatives, etc.)get perks that all students do not get. We’re not really interested in improving learning. We just want to be sure that the appropriate students have satisfactory records!

By Keni Bishop

May 6, 2005 08:53 AM | Link to this

We all have someone that we have to take our orders and instruction from. In this case the Board sets the policy. Teachers sign a contract stating they will abide by their policies. Mr. Neace violated his contract. He should be fired. Everyone answers to someone. Mr. Neace was only allowed to offer instructions to this student because of their contract. This student’s academic welfare belonged to the school district, and the teacher only has the opportunity to offer instruction because of their contract. This is simple. What this student did may have been inappropriate, but it becomes a non-issue because of the behavior of Mr. Neace.

By anne

May 6, 2005 08:54 AM | Link to this

This is not a discipline issue; it is an academic one. Gwinnett BOE has just sent a huge warning to all teachers that athletics and the accepted tolerance for incredible insolence from students will supersede any desire for academic excellence. I am an educator of 22 years and the mother of three. We are now choosing a private school where excellence is expected and athletics is honored in the proper way.

By J BRYDEN

May 6, 2005 08:54 AM | Link to this

Both the teacher and her superiors have over reacted to this. The child could get detention and the teacher should receive a written notice of the policy to follow and/or reprimand.

By KR Hinton

May 6, 2005 08:55 AM | Link to this

Being an alumni from Dacula in the early 80’s, I remember “Doc” very well. He was a great teacher and was very fair to the students during my 4 years at the high school. It’s not a shock in today’s culture to find out though that a good man has been wrongly fired. He cares about his students and wants to see them succeed in life. If he hadn’t had take time with me and several others from the class of 85 - he wuoldn’t have been remembered so well and loved so much by so many. In the real world, if you fall asleep in a meeting then you usually get fired.

By Wayne Lemond

May 6, 2005 08:57 AM | Link to this

What in the hell is wrong with these people. I was a DHS student from ‘86-‘90 and had ‘Doc’ Neace as my chemistry teacher. There is no one else I would have rather had as my teacher. He was alwasy fair and made chemistry fun. He’s one of the few teachers that I had respect for..
Like others have said, what has happened to personal responsibility? What’s wrong with these parents who think their child is so precious that they can do no wrong? Grow the hell up and take responsbility for yourself and your actions!
Dacula High School has lost one of it’s best teachers and you can bet ‘Doc’ Neace will have a strong following on this ordeal. Good luck to you Doc! I’m another one of your grateful students who are behind you!

By Jake

May 6, 2005 08:57 AM | Link to this

There’s a very valuable lesson here, as I suggested in my first post. We live in a society that continues to reinforce the notion that might is right. Might, generally, does not accumulate in the hands of the righteous.
True, he did not follow the policy. But this country was founded by people that disobeyed the unjust rules of tyrants. I commend Mr. Neace for sticking to his principles, and for having the courage to stay the course. At least this time, unlike Galileo’s experience, the Inquisition (i.e., the school board) couldn’t force him to recant. It’s clear that ‘winning’ this battle is in fact a great loss for DHS and it’s students, present and future.

By DAVID

May 6, 2005 08:58 AM | Link to this

ONCE AGAIN, GWINNETT COUNTY SCHOOL BOARD HAS FAILED TO UPHOLD DISCIPLINE AND RESPONSIBILITY BY FIRING A GREAT VETERAN SCIENCE TEACHER. THE SCHOOL BOARD HAS AGAIN GIVEN IN TO THE PRESSURE OF PARENTS REQUIRING THAT ATHELETES (FOOTBALL PLAYERS) BE GIVEN PAMPERING TREATMENT!!!

THE VETERAN SCIENCE TEACHER WAS TEACHING HIS STUDENTS THAT THERE ARE CONSEQUENCES FOR ONES ACTIONS. HE WAS ALSO TEACHING THAT STUDENTS MUST LEARN TO BE RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR OWN ACTIONS.

GIVEN THE ACTIONS OF THE SCHOOL BOARD, I WOULD FULLY EXPECT THE PRINCIPAL TO BE LET GO (NEXT).

THE MANY STUDENTS WHO CAME TO THE DEFENSE OF THEIR SCIENCE TEACHER AND THEIR ATTEMPTS TO GET HIM BACK INTO THE CLASSROOM ARE TO BE COMMENDED FOR THEIR ACTIONS. THEY TOO HAVE LEARNED A VALUABLE LESSON IN LIFE.

By Holly

May 6, 2005 08:58 AM | Link to this

Fire the administrator who failed to read the syllabus that clearly stated grades would be penalized.

By Ed Graham

May 6, 2005 09:00 AM | Link to this

This is so typical of high schools around this area. They kiss up to the jocks. It has been reported that Mr. Neace told his students on the first day of class what the class requirements and punishments were. Too bad that Mr. Jock decided to ignore them. If this means he doesn’t get into some football-player-kiss-up college, too bad for him. School is supposed to be for LEARNING!!!!!

By Monica

May 6, 2005 09:00 AM | Link to this

Why is sleeping in class considered a discipline issue? If you sleep in class, you don’t have the ability to complete the work. The teacher did not use grades to discipline a student. How can this be a violation of board policy? The teacher gave the student the grade he earned. No wonder teachers are leaving the profession in droves.

By Richard Lyon

May 6, 2005 09:01 AM | Link to this

Teachers are the final word on Grades, not administrators. Bring that school board and principal back in line.

By Bob

May 6, 2005 09:01 AM | Link to this

….and the dumbing of America, in this case Dacula, continues! What do you pay these high salaries to these “Administrators” for? To Doc: Go to Cobb County—the schools are better there.

By EB Garner

May 6, 2005 09:02 AM | Link to this

When the spoiled brat falls asleep on the job and gets fired, he can’t blame this teacher. But I suspect that, if his behavior is indicative, he will not be in a desk job in which he can fall asleep. He may be operating a piece of machinery. If he falls asleep then it may cost him his life. I’m not sure who is the more stupid in this story: the student or the Gwinnett County School Board!

By David

May 6, 2005 09:03 AM | Link to this

The principal is wrong and the school board is wrong. Doc Neese needs to sue the school board. I would vote his way.

By former parent of student

May 6, 2005 09:03 AM | Link to this

Okay Gwinnett School board. You fired Mr. Neace. If you are fair, I am now challenging you to investigate the coach. The school has swept a lot under the rug that he did. He has some questionable behavior hanging over his head and Mr. Nutt just stood behind him. As a taxpayer, I strongly urge you to investigate this principal, the coach, and any others who have had charges “swept” under the rug.

By Rick

May 6, 2005 09:03 AM | Link to this

We Gwinnett County residents need to stand up to this and get rid of these type of principals and the administration that back him/her. It’s rediculous that we’ve let our school system become so liberal and ‘politically correct’. Discipline is needed in schools, for kids to learn respect. If this kid knew the rules going in, and violated them, he should suffer the consequences.

By Michelle T

May 6, 2005 09:04 AM | Link to this

Doc Nease was fired for “in-subordination” or for not doing as he was told by his supervisor. It was my understanding that these students were instructed to work on this assignment during the class period and the student chose NOT to do that therefore showing “in-subordination” as well. Seems to me the student’s infraction was the same as the teacher’s, so can we fire him too?

By Alice

May 6, 2005 09:04 AM | Link to this

I don’t understand why the teacher is being punished for doing what is right! Just because the student is an athlete does not make him someone special. Kick him to the street and let him know what the real world is all about.

By Concerned Student

May 6, 2005 09:06 AM | Link to this

I am a student at Dacula High and am very upset about what happened at the trial. For one Mr. Mason lied under oath and said that Mr. Cheek did NOT use words such as, “s**, hell, and a*”. When Mr. Nutt came in and was asked about that same thing he said Mr. Cheek did use those words. Mr. Nutt made a fool of himself saying that Mr. Neace “enjoyed failing the student.” Mr. Neace DID NOT GIVE THE STUDENT A ZERO LIKE HIS SYLLABUS SAID HE WOULD! HE ONLY TOOK HALF CREDIT! I would like to say that Gwinnett county has now fallen to one of the WORST school systems in the state of Georgia in my mind. Mr. Nutt and Mr. Maloof MUST be removed if Dacula High is going to return to the possition it was in before all this crap started happening. A few years ago Neace found an accounting error in the books which meant Gwinnett County was not paying teachers as much as they should have been. Mr. Neace notified Gwinnett County about this and then emailed all the teachers before the county could act on it. Since then the county has been mad at Neace and I believe that this incident should be investigated more in depth for a better view on what happened.

~Concerned Dacula High Student.

By Amanda

May 6, 2005 09:07 AM | Link to this

I think this whole situation is rediculous. I heard the teacher on Q100 this morning talking about the situation. He said he gave the class an assignment and everyone other than this student participated in completing it. The student in question fell asleep. I completely agree with the teacher. If a student chooses to participate in EXTRA-CURRICULAR activities, he/she can not let it affect their school work. School comes first. If you don’t do the work, you should not be rewarded just because you play sports. This is really all about the school trying to make itself look good, no matter what the cost. The schools in Gwinnett are mainly focused on winning sports. I attended Parkview and I saw this happening there a lot. Everyone wants to be the best. Screw the principal, re-hire the teacher. Go teacher!!!

By Janice

May 6, 2005 09:07 AM | Link to this

I am a parent of a college student who graduated from Dacula High. He has always spoken highly of “Doc” Neace (one of his favorite teachers) and actually has considered being a physics teacher like him. In college, you receive a syllabus from the instructor and if you don’t follow it, tough. “Doc” is actually preparing his students for their futures, which is what we expect when we send our kids to school. Being familiar with Dacula High, there is favoritism towards atheletes shown. In the fall of 2001, atheletes were the only former students allowed back on campus to visit their past teachers. I support “Doc” Neace for being an inspiration to my son and standing by his principals of what is right. He is an excellant role model for our children. I am sure God is proud of him too. The administration, both at the county level and the school level, should re-think their actions and policies.

By Toni

May 6, 2005 09:08 AM | Link to this

I used to be a teacher and I would NOT dare enter a classroom today for exactly what is happening to Mr. Neace. He is absolutely right in his actions. School, especially High School, is preparing students for life in the work-a-day world. No employer would tolerate an employee sleeping on the job. This is NOT a discipline matter, but a life-style issue. This is absolutely pathetic and a disgrace to the superintendent of Gwinnett Schools. As an adult with authority who is setting an example to the youth under his care he should be ashamed that he is cow-towing to the pressures of those under his watch. This is not the behavior of a strong leader.

By Laura

May 6, 2005 09:08 AM | Link to this

It is completely ridiculous to remove a teacher who has held and followed the same grading policy for so many years. The student, just like all other students knew that falling asleep in “Doc”s class would result in a 0 or a 1/2 grade. It is commendable that he finished the assignment and turned it in but how can he expect to get a full grade when he knew he broke a rule. With the school board knowing that this is NOT the first time that this teacher has implemented his policy, to all of a sudden punish him for reprimanding a student athlete is an obvious obstruction of justice. Anyone who can stand to be a teacher for more than a few years certainly has more courage, strength, and more resilliance than I know I have.

By Greg

May 6, 2005 09:09 AM | Link to this

DJB Wrote:

“The teacher broke a rule, but his rule was understood by all and respected by all. In this case, the school board rule which was broken was obviously more important to the board than the discipline in the school.”

So when a public official that everyone loves takes a kickback, which is wrong we should all say…hey but he is respected by all and he’s been doing it for years so its ok in my book.

That’s absurd!

I do not think anyone here thinks this teacher is not a good and caring gentleman. Maybe him losing his job was extreme, but he broke a rule people.

There is a lesson that students can learn from this unfortunate issue as well which is…

WE HAVE RULES IN SOCIETY. YOU CAN NOT BREAK RULES BECAUSE THERE ARE CONSEQUENCES TO PAY!

The student could have been placed on suspension, detention or forced to miss a game.

Greg

By Ken

May 6, 2005 09:10 AM | Link to this

Doc did not violate any policy. He clearly states in his guidelines what the policeis are for his class. This was not used as discipline, it was part of the grade. By adopting his own policy a decade ago and the administration not challaging it, it became a custom. A custom is accepted as policy. There’s a supreme court decision on customs and they are accepted throughout government and private sectors. If I remember correctly, Decula is one of the schools that pack the stadium every Friday night. That means money! No wonder our professional athletes are acting like morons, ie. murder, drugs, rape…..I guess they thought they could be protected from that too!!!!!

By MG

May 6, 2005 09:12 AM | Link to this

Wow, congrats to the principal and Gwinnett Cty school board for underscoring for the rest of the world what takes top priority in the school system. Believe it or not, Dacula HS, the point of school is to LEARN, not to have a good football team. And to think this is supposed to be one of the better school systems in Georgia!?

Education will never improve in this state until it becomes a priority for parents and school systems. We should all be thanking “Doc” for exposing the hyprocrisy in the Gwinnett Cty school system. More power to the parents and students who are supporting him, and recognize this for what it is.

By Steve Miller

May 6, 2005 09:13 AM | Link to this

Absolutely pathetic…it’s always a mystery to these same administrators as to why grades are down, absenteeism is up, blah, blah, blah…….it’s because the inmates are running the asylum. There is NO personal accountability in these “pc” indoctrination centers what.so.ever. If someone tries to instill anything remotely close to that, say maybe someone whose been teaching for 23 years, it’s hoist him on the cross time. It’s all about making sure little Jonnies feelings are not hurt.I would love to get little Jonnie into my workplace and he falls asleep in one of my meetings. I’m thinking of a can and something about opening it on him, but it’s a bit blury………maybe it’ll be clearer to his next employer. This transparent and mysogynistic administration is trying to spin this fiasco as something it’s not, while the rest of us who reside in the real world can clearly see the insanity in this situation. This little example incapsulates all that is wrong in our public schools in one fell swoop. May God Bless Doc and I’ll say my prayers for the administration.

By Carl Saxton

May 6, 2005 09:14 AM | Link to this

Isn’t it rather strange that this teacher has used the same practice or “policy” as the board calls it, for ten years, and the board has not muttered one word of objection. Now that he has punished a football player, they are up in arms, and forced to do something to correct this teacher’s policy. Just more of the BS that goes on in public schools today. Listen, folks, Georgia is at the bottom of the educational systems in the nation. The last thing we need to do is lose a good teacher because of football. Rather, we should be considering dropping all sports until we as a state, can at least give our children an education equal to half the rest of the nation. And, school boards such at this one, needs to be banned, and burned at the stake.

By Professor

May 6, 2005 09:14 AM | Link to this

Preferential treatment of athletes - that’s one of the oldest unjustices, and frankly should not be tolerated. Fire the principal (Nutt) and promote the good and resonable teacher. It must be very embarassing for the citizens of Gwinnett County, whose school board is represented by a roach. Bugs and nuts are costing the state of Georgia good qualified teachers. I say, get rid of the bugs and nuts.

By Greg

May 6, 2005 09:15 AM | Link to this

What I think is ridiculous is that people continue to spell ridiculous..

REDICULOUS

Maybe Gwinnett County Schools are that bad indeed!

Greg

By Lynda

May 6, 2005 09:15 AM | Link to this

I agree with most of what has been said on here. I can remember when Gwinnett schools WERE called the best in the state, but now I hate having my kids in Gwinnett schools and this shows why. We send our kids to school to LEARN not sleep all day. I feel that the Board over stepped big time. They are sending the WRONG message to our kids. ” You have to be in school from 7 to 3, but if you want to sleep then that is ok.” Big deal so he plays sports. That DOES NOT make him or her any better then someone who isnt playing sports. It is so hard to find GOOD teachers let alone to find GREAT ones out there, and Gwinnett is crying that they need more teachers and they go and fire a GREAT one! Come board members wake up and see the harm that you have done not only to this teacher but also to the future of the kids in our schools. BUT do remember these 5 people will be running for office again and we all know how to vote NO for them ALL and replace them.

By Jennifer

May 6, 2005 09:15 AM | Link to this

Other students have stated they were well aware that if they slept in this class their grade would suffer. In fact, when I was in school I had a teacher who did the same thing and guess what? We paid extra attention in that class.

To me, this is just another form of a student not taking responsibility for his/her actions and now I am sure the student feels as if he was 100% in the right since the teacher was fired. The teacher only wanted what was best for the student and that was to pay attention in class. When the student gets a job and goes to sleep does he think his boss will be fired for disciplining him?

As a parent I understand completely where the teacher was coming from and I would have to stand behind the teacher if my child was aware of the consequences and made a poor decision.

By Greg

May 6, 2005 09:16 AM | Link to this

At a time in which EVERY school system in the US is starving for good math and science teachers this principal (or sad excuse for one) and school system decides to fire a highly respected teacher over the lowering of a homework grade of some lazy brain dead jock. They should change the sign out in front of the school to read. Lazy dumb jocks … highly recruited. Academics not required.

Do you people have a clue out there? America workers are rapidly sliding downward in comparison to the workers in other industrialized countries. Colleges complain that graduating seniors lack a solid foundation in math and science. So how do you solve this? Fire the highly respected physics teacher at your local high school????????? How about firing the coaches and the principal for being so warped in their thinking.

By Rick

May 6, 2005 09:16 AM | Link to this

At no time should an athlete be given preferential treatment in the classroom, but this is not the case here. What we have is a teacher who is standing on the ground that his classroom practice of using grades as discipline overrides a district wide policy against the same.

In my opinion he is trying to make a very good point on a table with no legs.

By Cindy

May 6, 2005 09:16 AM | Link to this

I absoultely agree with the teacher, athletes have been too many special considerations over the years. They should have to passs a subject just like all other students in order to maintain their grade average. It’s a shame you would fire a teacher for doing his or her job. What will the school system do next????

By Alf Holst

May 6, 2005 09:17 AM | Link to this

“Doc” did the right thing. Today’s students know that they hold the authority over their teachers. Lacking authority in the class allows students to be in charge. anything a teacher does these days can be scrutinized and penalized. Passing students that are not effective only makes for a less prepared young adult to venture out into the real world. maybe the kid he failed, in only one lab assignment, was failing his class anyway. giving preferential treatment to student athletes is unethical as well as unfair to the rest of the class. students need to understand and respect the authority that a teacher has, and the school board at Dacula should defend its teachers rather than cater to the parents and students. teacher retention is very low nation wide and good teachers, specially in difficult subject matters like physics, are hard to find. the GPSC has made it possible to become a certified teacher in any given subject matter after the successful completion of a PRAXIS test. This in itself will bring the standards of teaching down. the board members in Dacula should think about the consequences of their actions and the message it sends out to all other metro atlanta teachers- pass the students or get canned!

By Outraged

May 6, 2005 09:19 AM | Link to this

I am a high school teacher and thank God I don’t teach at Dacula. If I were a teacher there I would get out ASAP. How can you successfully teach and solve problems with students when everyone knows that neither Dacula nor Gwinnett County backs there teachers up? You try and discipline a kid and he will go straight to the principal. Or his mommy and daddy will come running in because their poor innocent child is the victim. I seriously can’t believe this happened. Now we know why teachers(including myself) get paid so low. IT’S BECAUSE WE GET CRAPPED ON!!!!

By SleepyNot

May 6, 2005 09:19 AM | Link to this

This is yet another example of a completely fouled up public school system, its poor leadership and idiotic policies that continues to plague society by graduating young adults who are largely irresponsible and unprepared.

By Maureen

May 6, 2005 09:19 AM | Link to this

I am seriously reconsidering my 5-year-old and 7-year-old furthering their education at Gwinnett County Schools. Every member of the voting public in Gwinnett County should take heed. Don’t we elect these people that are making these stupid decisions on how are children are being taught in our public schools?

By W. Trapnell

May 6, 2005 09:20 AM | Link to this

The combination of Bush’s no child left behind, too much attention and concern for sports related activities and a lack of concern for basic education all lead to such a very unjustified and unacceptable dismissal of a seasoned teacher. To do something like that after a teacher has been on the job that long should certainly be examined VERY CAREFULLY, regardless of the ramifications of no child left behind associated failures. This also sets a horrible example both for students and teachers. The Superintendent must always recognize right from wrong and this is plain wrong! It is evident that arrogance of power is trickling down from the Bush Administration to the local levels.

By Paula

May 6, 2005 09:22 AM | Link to this

Sounds like maybe another school system should jump in and hire this teacher away from Gwinnett County. As long as the student doesn’t have a medical reason for falling asleep in class they should be punished. Being an athlete and having well-to-do parents shouldn’t be an issue.

By Carlos

May 6, 2005 09:22 AM | Link to this

Tomi writes “That’s like having a salary that you have already earned taken away because you come into work late or fall asleep on the job. One had nothing to do with the other.” Maybe your government job would let you get away sleeping on the job but in the real world that is grounds for termination. Grow up people and lets not be so weak!

By Michael Merget

May 6, 2005 09:27 AM | Link to this

It’s a sad commentary on our schools when a teacher, who is trying to do the right thing and teach students responsibility and accountability, may lose his job because of his actions. This teacher is a man of principle and the students parents will enjoy the fruits of his sleeping in class later in life. His parents should have been outraged that he was sleeping in class.So much for school discipline.

By Angela Freeman

May 6, 2005 09:27 AM | Link to this

How can you fire someone over giving a Student an unfair grade? Come on the child was not beaten to death, nor physically or mentally damaged. The board should had talked with the teacher and the student alone with the parents to come to terms on what should have been done instead of removing the teacher this is foolish America has lost there minds the schools are out of control as it is. I hope the teacher win the Appeal and sue the school this is my opinion(Angela Freeman)

By Jerry Jascomb

May 6, 2005 09:30 AM | Link to this

While I don’t like seeing atheletes get preferential treatment, a student’s grade should be reflective of how he/she performed on specific academic excercises - NOT behavior, which is a separate issue, especially when passively nodding off.

The teacher is clearly wrong in this case.

By deanne

May 6, 2005 09:32 AM | Link to this

As a teacher I completely understand the issue at hand. We have so many parents who think that rules are for everyone except their children and themselves. We are raising the “What’s in it for me?” generation. I commend Neece for attempting to have some sort of respect and work ethic within the boundaries of his classroom. The issue at hand is, although the student did turn in the assignment, he blatantly disrespected the rules of the classroom by refusing to do the assignment when asked to. In the work force, if a deadline is to be met, are we allowed to sleep while at work because we can do the work at home? Aren’t we supposed to be preparing high school students for transition into real life? For all the critics in the area, I invite you to come in and do my job…not for an hour. Take it for 2 weeks and see if your “policies” don’t change. I’m sure that if the student is disrespectful enough to sleep when he was specifically asked to work on an assignment, waking him up would have caused another problem. As teachers we have to think of those things. If we spend our time waking up students who want to sleep and not work, what happens to the ones who have good work ethics? Why should they be subjected to constantly hearing the teacher trying to force students to work? Another thought we have to worry about is whether mom or dad will get angry and sue because of the tone of voice we may have to use in order to wake their child—-or even worse be sued for “publicly enbarrassing” their child by asking him to wake up in front of the entire class. Don’t even dare think of using our hands to prompt the child to wake up—that could result in a lawsuit for improperly touching a student! Before criticing maybe you should think about this litigation crazed society we are living in today!!!

By Angela Freeman

May 6, 2005 09:33 AM | Link to this

How can you fire someone over giving a Student an unfair grade? Come on the child was not beaten to death, nor physically or mentally damaged. The board should had talked with the teacher and the student alone with the parents to come to terms on what should have been done instead of removing the teacher this is foolish America has lost there minds the schools are out of control as it is. I hope the teacher win the Appeal and sue the school this is my opinion(Angela Freeman)

By Joe Schmoe Teacher

May 6, 2005 09:33 AM | Link to this

Tax dollars needlessly spent placating the principal’s legal issues in this case $100,000’s. Cost of tax dollars spent on “social support programs” for every student who CHOSE to deny their abiltiy to participate in education and took their teachers for granted, $1,000,000’s. Teachers who are highly qualified, caring, and actually EXPECT succes without excuses from EVERY STUDENT… Priceless.

And you were worried about the cost of gas.

Keep casting your pearls to the swine, Nutt.

I could say what I really feel, but I’m sure I’d get fired too…Better to just keep quiet and feign ignorance for now.

By Kurt

May 6, 2005 09:33 AM | Link to this

All of you (thankfully, a minority) who have posted here in support of the Board of Ed. have stated that the key issue here is the teacher’s insubordination. The principal and the board certainly agree.

I beg to differ. The key point here is power. Per many witnesses here the teacher’s policies have been in place for at least 10 years. We don’t know how long the board’s policies have been in place. Now we have a conflict between policies. This happens in the corporate world quite often. When it does, upper management has to make a decision. Should they back one side or the other. Successful executives back the production side over the bureaucratic side. Unsuccessful executives do the reverse. In a school system the educators are the production side and the administrators are the bureaucrats.

What does this say about the prospects for Gwinnett’s success academically. But boy they sure can play football. Please god save us from the frat boys and jocks of the world!

Bureaucrat - One who substitutes slavish devotion to a policy and procedures manual for thinking.

By Susan Baron

May 6, 2005 09:33 AM | Link to this

What a shame; the school administrators and some parents have let the very people down to whom they have entrusted the welfare & eduction of their children. Is it any wonder that discipline in schools and respect for authority is virtually nonexistent? Children are being instilled with skewed value systems in which it is ok just to get by, make excuses for not honoring commitments & worse yet, have the parents blame the instructors when the child fails!
Mr. Neace’s policy was known at the start of the school semester and enforced across the board. Every action has a consequence & until people take responsibility for their actions, we will be responsible for raising a generation of slackers. Brave to Mr. Neace, the students and parents who are willing to step up and take responsibility.

By Jimmy Newsome

May 6, 2005 09:34 AM | Link to this

Ladies and Gentlemen of the jury. I present exhibit A. This is why our schools have become jokes. I propose we do away with all teachers and just let the students run the classroom.

By MC

May 6, 2005 09:36 AM | Link to this

These posts are too funny! I don’t think I will pursue a degree in teaching anymore because I don’t want this to happen to me. I wish that all teachers were like Dr. Neace. Maybe my generation wouldn’t be as crazy as they are now. Way to go Dr. Neace.

By Ted

May 6, 2005 09:37 AM | Link to this

This certainly brings into question the competency of the members of the Gwinnett County School Board and certainly the principal of Dacula High School. They should all should be removed from their positions for such an idiotic, counter-educational act. Any student who sleeps in class should get a zero for the day. After all, classwork for the most part is a mental activity. Anyone who sleeps in class is not only showing disrespect for the teacher and fellow students, they not actually present, are they? Kudos to the teacher!

By Glenn Hitchcock

May 6, 2005 09:37 AM | Link to this

Having spent 40 years in education beginning in the 50s, I have seen the decline of instruction (teaching if you please). The decline has vastly increased in recent years for a number of reasons. Board of education policy has to be followed, but maybe not so explictly as to fire a teacher of Mr. Neace`s caliber. GOOD teachers are hard to find.

By Laura Maynard

May 6, 2005 09:37 AM | Link to this

I have mixed feeling about this whole situation. I believe kids should go to school and stay awake and listen in class and have tremendous respect for those teachers who are doing their jobs of teaching. I can’t imagine how hard it would be to teach in our school system today. Administrators and politicians and self-serving cowards have turned our public schools into war zones where there is no respect for a teacher, no respect for authority and certainly no respect for “idea” of teaching as it used to be. And let me be clear that I do hold many parents to be lumped into that group of people that have helped to turn our schools into anything but a place of learning. I think there is too much “muscle” being flexed in the entire situation. It sound to me like NO ONE wants to cooperate or compromise in this situation. Thats one I sure can’t understand because our schools have compromised on every issue whether is is value based or morality based thats ever come into question.
If the school has a policy and the teacher blatantly violated the policy he should be reprimanded, but certainly not fired. If the policy is as stated, grades cannot be used to dicipline..It needs to be changed and if not, every teacher at that school should walk out the door today, and go on strike. Every resource that a teacher has at their disposal has been stripped from them over the decades and they have absolutley no recourse for discipling our kids today. What the heck are we expecting them to do, just have a day long babysitting service that the government funds so that we as parents don’t have to spend anytime or any energy on the raising or development of our own children. That sounds about right. There are so many good teachers and good students in our schools, and there are so many good administrators, but somewhere in the shuffle of the battle for superiority and “who’s the boss”, and doing things my way, we have all lost sight of what our roles in society are. Administrators are the backbone of the school system. You hold it up and make it work and you are failing in your job. Without a backbone the rest of the body cannot and will not function correctly. The arms and legs and organs(the teachers)cannot work right without the support that is meant to make them work right. And kids today, because of all the open ended bull-_ _ _ _ that has been thrown at them over the last 15 years and all the you are your own destiny and don’t let anyone, not even your parents, tell you what to do, has warped their total sense of their role in society. Kids today believe 100% that they are smarter and know more and can make better decisions than their parents, definitley their teachers, and any other authority figure they have to deal with. Who’s fault is this. Somewhere along the line we have to correct our failures as 1st and foremost parents, and teachers and administrators and politicians. There is a reason, whether you believe in evolution or creation, that babies are born as babies….They cannot take care of themselves. Thats what parents are for. They can’t learn without being taught. Thats what teachers are for. And they can’t abide by rules and learn respect with authority, thats the role of us all. Why didn’t the school and Mr. Neace find a suitable compromise for this situation. I believe the students would have benefited much more by seeing that adults could work out a problem without being torn apart. They see enough of that in their divorced families. Was the student really sleeping. And I do disagree with Mr. Neace that it is his job to wake up students. It is his classroom and he is in charge of everything that goes on in it. I understand his job is hard enough, but he “could” have wakened the student, even if he had done it before. Did the student do it often, did he finish his assignment, did he do a good job on the assignment. Did his parents get involved in this situation. It seems to me, everyone was only concerned about their particular point of view and how they should be right, and not truly about the student, Because in the end of all this publicity he is the one who is hurt. The administrators didn’t help him by isisiting on a grade he didn’t deserve, just to further their agenda of not being listed on some bad/good school list, if that is the situation; Mr. Neace didn’t help him with his class by showing compassion to really care about him making the grade, just because he is a “football” player, maybe he was really tired, maybe he was really just lazy, however the point in the class is to help students succeed. He could have woke him up and told him he was going to have to dicipline him, and talked with the kid, maybe that has already happened, and we, the public are not really getting all the information to make and informed decision about who is right and who is wrong. And then theres the parents, did they come to the school and insist that their son, the star football player could not possibly get a bad grade or he couldn’t play in a game, or what is the real truth behind the whole situation. We may never know. But its not too late for all involved to come together and find a solution and show us and all those kids that cooperation and being able to compromise on some issues is for the greater good of the school and the students….After all its all about the kids…they are the leaders of tomorrow, if we survive the war zone long enough to have a tomorrow.

By Lee

May 6, 2005 09:39 AM | Link to this

This is absurd, I agree with those that say give him a raise. On the other hand I agree with those that say the issues should be dealt with separately. Go ahead and give him back the 100 for this assignment then suspend him for 5 days for sleeping in class. In those 5 days “Doc” should assign the rest of the class 10 EXTREMELY SIMPLE worksheets that would hold test weight in scoring and give the coddled athlete 10 zeros for these.

By Dianne Byrd

May 6, 2005 09:41 AM | Link to this

This is just an absolute outrage. I cannot believe that a science teacher with over twenty years experience does not have the support of his administrators is such situations. I have said so many times recently, as I read the paper, WHO makes these decisions?

It is a shame that our educators and scholars have such difficulty in passing on valuable information that will obviously benefit the student.

Until parents take back the reins and have more control over their children, I am afraid their futures look bleak. What great leadership examples we are setting.

I sincerely wish the best of luck to Dr. Nease, looks like he is going to have a long row to hoe. He should be principal.

By Lon

May 6, 2005 09:42 AM | Link to this

So let me get this straight. Students can now snooze through class without fear of hurting their grade because the teacher will be in fear of losing his/her job??? What a perfect example of stupid people creating stupid policies and stupid laws only to protect themselves from litigation instead of guaranteeing a safe, structured, and controlled learning environment for our kids and future generations. It’s also another example of politicians, and not educators, controlling our educational system (‘No Child Left Behind’). I’ll be surprised if the Dacula High students don’t organize a “Nap-In” in protest of losing a favorite teacher.

By D

May 6, 2005 09:44 AM | Link to this

I am outraged by the action of the School Board in dismissing Larry Nease. I will make a determination as to who voted in favor of the termination and if any are from my district, they will not get my vote in the next election. As Doc Nease tried to teach his students, there are consequences for your actions. I imagine that this District policy was created to prevent teachers from arbitrarily reducing a student’s grade because of perceived or actual discipline issues. Without this rule, one can see how a teacher might use grade reduction to try and flunk out students who are, in the teacher’s mind, troublemakers. Clearly, however, this is not the case with Doc Neace. Doc’s policy, clearly stated in the syllabus (which is presented to the students at the beginning of the year and, by copy, to the parents), does not conflict with the intent of the District policy. The consequences for specific behavior are set out in writing. Doc could not use his own policy to arbitrarily punish students he might not get along with. Unless they violated the prohibited behavior, there could be no grade reduction. In addition, it is a reduction on one grade, not failing a student for causing trouble. Finally, it appears that Doc has enforced his policy evenly and consistently. How, then, does Doc’s policy violate the intent of the District’s policy? There is no doubt in my mind that this is a matter of academic enforcement, not punishment for offensive behavior. There have been many complaints in these Blogs by teachers about lack of administration support when it comes to discipline issues. This clearly shows the short sightedness of the school. In taking such a strict interpretation of the District policy, throwing common sense to the winds in the process, the students are losing a dedicated and effective teacher. Add to that the chilling effect of the action (if you were a teacher, would you want to work at DHS after this?) Duluth High School will be a sadder place. As to the student that sparked all this? Despite your popularity as an athlete, you might want to prepare for many cold stares on Monday.

By Joe Schmoe Teacher

May 6, 2005 09:46 AM | Link to this

…and yes, I missed the additional “s” at the end of success…just for any of you detractors who would like to cloud the validity of my statement by believing a typo is an intellectual indicator.. ;-) Happy Friday.

By Joseph

May 6, 2005 09:48 AM | Link to this

Another case where parents of the student feel their child is being ‘wronged’ and don’t want him face the consequences of his actions. Mind you, the student is not doing this on his own..Yet the teacher faces the toughest of consequences!

The principal and superintendent have yielded to reason and now want to stand behind the old “He won’t do what I say, so he’s fired!”

I can think of many rules at my workplace - or laws in the community - that I don’t like. Does this mean I should neglect them and OR attempt to get them changed the way we’ve done since 1776.

Take the high road, Doc. They took the low! Although you tried, the kid will amount to nothing. Plus, surely you don’t want to work at that school and county any longer.

By New to Georgia

May 6, 2005 09:53 AM | Link to this

I’m moving to Georgia and you just helped me decide what County I’m not going to live in.

By Scott

May 6, 2005 09:54 AM | Link to this

Robin don’t worry. Wesley will get bumped UP to fries after his punk a$$ daddy threatens to take his business to Burger King. Wesley’s parents should be commended for doing such an excellent job at teaching their little baby life lessons. Wesley is obviously a role model for other student’s. But I don’t just blame him. His parents were probably self absorbed, narcossistic little brats themselves and the leaf doesn’t fall far from the tree.

Oh well, I gotta go pick my kids up from the government school and hear what their ultra liberal staff and teachers are trying to shove down their throats this week.

By Flabbergasted

May 6, 2005 09:59 AM | Link to this

The response by the Gwinnett County School Board showcases the troubles in our schools. When we lower standards for learning our society is in trouble. When teachers set standards for our children and they do not follow the standards action must be taken. Mr. Neace could have given him a zero but instead cut his grade by 50%. Good for you Mr. Neace, we need more teachers like you.

By Mrs. Rogers

May 6, 2005 09:59 AM | Link to this

Loosing 1 grade, be it 1/2 of a grade or all of it, should not cause a student to fail unless he had low or failing grades in other classes. Even if he failed this class, one “F” does not keep you from playing sports or getting into College unless you have other failing or low grades. There is more to this guy’s GPA than we know.

You have to admire Mr. Neese for not asking the students that sleep in his class to leave the room for the period and giving them a “0”. Instead, it appears he is truly trying to teach his students and install a willingness to learn. I support Mr. Neese’s decision and admire him for having class room rules that encourage students to learn and holds them accountable for their actions in his class. I sincerely regret that the Gwinnett County School Board and the Principal of DHS are not supporting Mr. Neese, as I feel this will just open up another door that further supports students sleeping in class.

By Loisrae

May 6, 2005 10:02 AM | Link to this

I’m as appalled at some of the responses as I was of the principal’s actions! If an employee feel asleep at work, even if he was previously working competently, he should receive a strong disciplinay action. I think it’s time that the “sacred cow” of Georgia——high school football players—-be brought down a few pegs, and back to reality!!

By Pat Carter

May 6, 2005 10:03 AM | Link to this

UNBELIEVABLE! Grades I thought were part of classroom participation. We could use him here in New York. Good teachers are so scarce these days. I admire this man and the one holdout who supported him. In these times people have to get real with their children on behavior outside of the home, especially in the schools. That place is an extension of home 1/3 of the day. Parents have placed the kids in the teachers care.

By Scott

May 6, 2005 10:06 AM | Link to this

Way to go Doc! I have been a teacher for 15 years and I have seen crap like this go on for years in many different school systems. I can remember one certain English teacher who failed a star football player (who had signed w/ UGA) and refused to change his grade because he didn’t feel he had to make up the work he missed while he was being recruited. She stuck by her guns, under tons of pressure, and he had to go to summer school to finish. I am sorry you lost your job BUT I guarantee that you won’t go without a job because there are still some school systems in this state that promote academics over everything else and they would love to have a man like you teaching their children.

In regards to the fact that “grades can’t be used as displine” that is BS. If that is the fact then WHY do we give grades? If I didn’t give grades my students listen and do what I say … in fact it’s grades that keep them in line. Personally I wish we didn’t give grades, that students came in and did as we told them and give 100% everyday in every class but in the real world of education (not the NCLB world) students don’t so we must.

In short … way to go Doc!!

By Robert Allen

May 6, 2005 10:08 AM | Link to this

By Linda Giles

May 6, 2005 10:12 AM | Link to this

This is just another reason we have violence in our schools, you are turning our teachers into baby-setters, with their hands tied. Children are learning there is no consiquences to their actions, therefore anything goes-and it does. You will regret these ridiculous, and unwise decisions.

By Sunshine

May 6, 2005 10:23 AM | Link to this

My mother always told me. It’s not what you do, it’s how you do it. The teacher were right in discipline the kid but wrong in going against school policies. He took a chance and he were call on it. Another one of my mother’s saying is “LEAD BY BEING AN EXAMPLE”.

This is a mold hill made into a Mountain!

By Ernie

May 6, 2005 10:24 AM | Link to this

I think the the dismissal of the teacher speaks volumes for the problems that are wrong in our society today. I am a large sports fan and I do feel that student athelets should be given help in school in the form of additional instruction from teachers or other students, not passing grades just because I play football.

Taking sports out of the question, we are teaching our students that it is all right for them to cut corners in school and get a passing grade. In the real world, if you fall a sleep on the job or cut corners and get caught, you loose your job. Large companies that are looking to relocate in Georgia look at the education system that is in place. When they see what we have allowed to happen here, they will know that the ethics of the work force is taught early on to cheat and cut corners. They will use the School Boards actions to move to another state or country that does teach their future employees how to properly act on the job. Do you want your employees falling a sleep on the job?

I feel that the Gwinnett School Board has made a major mistake. Teachers have had all power taken away from them. Students have nothing to fear from teachers or anyone else. What will happen next is some student taking a gun to school and killing several students. When this does happen, the school board should be held directly responsible. When you take all discipline away, you can only expect chaos. Good luck to the Gwinnett County School System, you are going to need it.

By Maxine Turner

May 6, 2005 10:29 AM | Link to this

What with the Runaway Bride and the Firing School Board, Gwinnett is gaining quite a freaky reputation.

By Matt S.

May 6, 2005 10:43 AM | Link to this

We have a child in the Gwinnett School system and we are always weighing whether he would be more educationally challenged in a private school setting. We have hope for “the system” and take an active role as parents at the school.

I don’t know “Doc” but am deeply disturbed. This action is sending the message to teachers that you should look the other way when a child is not engaged in your teachings.

As an engineer, if people do not pay attention to my professional advice, it can have dangerous consequences. Wouldn’t you agree that the same applies to teachers and their instruction?

It’s unfortunate that policy (right or wrong) gets in the way of someone who takes their job seriously.

By Bill

May 6, 2005 10:44 AM | Link to this

This is just another example, in a rapidly growing list, of how our standards are eroding. Soon there will be no standards and our society will be in anarchy. God help us all!!

By Rajan Vedak

May 6, 2005 10:52 AM | Link to this

It is unfortunate when sports takes priority over education. This kid will wake up when he is 40 and find out he has nothing to show for: no education, no skills, perhaps no job and a washed out athlete. That is when he will remember his teacher and say ” how could I be so stupid.” Go DOC.

By Charles

May 6, 2005 10:57 AM | Link to this

Imagine, a teacher injecting a bit of the real world into the class. How dare he to that? Only in rare cases do grades represent intellectual ability in today’s schools; this case documents where the administration’s value are to be found. The public schools should be honest, save time, and save money by giving a certificate to any eighteen-year-old capable of making his or her way to the main office, even if it is with assistance—the money saved could be given to the administration and staff (no faculty needed in this scenario) to continue their ‘important’ work in serving the local and larger community. This is additional proof that the public schools are intellectually and morally corrupt, if not bankrupt.

By Linda

May 6, 2005 10:58 AM | Link to this

Fire the Principal, NOT THIS TEACHER! The parent should be teaching this boy that it is his responsibility to follow the rules and respect authority, but evidently, the parent is as bad as the student and thinks no one should do anything to “their” child. How do you get a perfect paper on a lab that you slept through anyway? Sounds suspicious to me.

By Eyvonne

May 6, 2005 11:00 AM | Link to this

Yes, the student was wrong for sleeping in class. However, we don’t know the circumstances of his falling asleep. Was the student ill? Secondly, two wrongs were committed. The student slept and the teacher broke the school’s policy. If the school has a policy of not using grades to discipline students, then the policy should be strictly adhered to by every instructor. Finally, the student fulfilled his assignment and did it in a scholarly manner. He should not have received a reduction of his grade. Doc had an opportnity to comply with the school’s request and he refused to do. Therefore, the Board had no choice but to dismiss him.

By Jennifer

May 6, 2005 11:00 AM | Link to this

I figured that he would get fired. What did this school system just teach it’s high school students? They taught them that the students are in charge of the school. They have lost even more respect for teachers now. Children at schools have enough troble respecting teachers without the administration backing up the students. I teach school in GA and our high school is the same way. The athletes get special pampering and the regular kids do not get the same treatment. Thank goodness I teach at the elementary level. Our principal supports the teachers. We used to have “social promotion” based on “who your family is” and not on your grades. Our board finally stopped that 2 years ago. This firing is just ridiculous. It is yet again the “good old boy” system at work. I support the teacher. I would not have resigned either. Shame on you Gwinett county!

By nicole

May 6, 2005 11:08 AM | Link to this

Outrageous to let such an accomplished teacher go over this! My son attends school in Gwinnett County and has just had his THIRD teacher of the year quit with no notice! We can’t hold on to the teachers we have and they will fire this man for doing his job? When did it become such a sin to hold our chidren accountable for their own actions?

By Judy Franzone

May 6, 2005 11:09 AM | Link to this

This what is wrong with our Sport People they have been spoiled having there way and not ever working for their grades. Always just let move on then the pro and can not handle the pressure. The Teacher did the right thing. They fired the wrong person. Try the people on the board that let this happen. If the working person slept on the job we would be fired.

Judy Franzone

By Carol

May 6, 2005 11:16 AM | Link to this

Although I am very sympathetic to teachers resisting having administrators second-guess their grading, I am forced to agree that using grades to punish a student isn’t fair. If the person is so smart, for example, that s/he can skip class half the time, but still get A’s on the assignments and the tests, then I think that person should get the A even though the teacher would undoubtedly be mad enough to flunk him/her.

By Jimmy Repine

May 6, 2005 11:18 AM | Link to this

What I find interesting, is that this grade was given on a lab. If the student in question was sleeping, how did he score anything but a 0 on it to begin with?

Having come from the Gwinnett County School system myself, it saddens me to see how far it seems to have fallen (not that it didn’t have problems in my day), that a quality teacher can be removed by the actions of a pampered teen.

To all the teachers that helped me through highschool and the quality teachers still helping turn out quality education, thank you. And keep up the good work.

By Darrell

May 6, 2005 11:26 AM | Link to this

What’re you people, nuts? A teacher who cares enough for his students to try to teach them self-discipline and responsibility for their own actions, and you fire him? I hope he sues the pants off of the school district, then comes over to Cobb County Schools, where principals support their teachers instead of kissing up to the athletic department.

By Eilee

May 6, 2005 11:27 AM | Link to this

I applaud Mr. Neace for his values and his ability not to succumb under pressure. Hopefully he will lead the way for other teachers to stand up and do what is right for the students and their education. I am a parent of 4 students that have attended or are attending Milton High School in North Fulton County, what I have seen over the past 6 year,as far as grading and overlooking the academic and social behavior of the school athletic team students has been totally appalling and is very obvious to parents and students alike! Thank you Mr. Neace, my prayers and thought are with you; hopefully you will be quickly employed in an academic environment that actually has the student’s best educational values on the top of the priority list!

By Jimmy Repine

May 6, 2005 11:27 AM | Link to this

How can you say that someone that misses class 1/2 the time, should get an A? If I go to work and produce ‘A’ quality work while I am there, and take 1/2 the week off, should I get a full weeks pay? No, of course not.

Grades in classes are more than test and assignments. It’s about being in the class room, and interacting in the environment and LEARNING. Everyday that you miss, is missed learning, by not participating you are cheating yourself and others.

Some of the best LEARNING experiences I’ve had, are from times there we just talked about theories and interacted with each other, and no grades were given.

If you are not present (or awake) to participate in a class, then you SHOULD be given a 0 for the assignment.

By Jimmy Repine

May 6, 2005 11:29 AM | Link to this

And I quote: If the person is so smart, for example, that s/he can skip class half the time, but still get A’s on the assignments and the tests, then I think that person should get the A even though the teacher would undoubtedly be mad enough to flunk him/her. ….

And you wonder what’s wrong with our schools?

By Barb

May 6, 2005 11:36 AM | Link to this

The Gwinnett County School Board and Mr. Nutt should be ashamed of themselves. The message they send to students, and arrogant(my child never does anything wrong)bullying parents, is that the rules don’t apply to them. The performance expectations were clearly outlined at the start of the school year, as in previous school years. This teacher was fair in his application of these expectations. The students knew what the consequences were for compromised performance. These are valuable “real world” lessons students must learn before they go into adulthood. Guess what guys, after you turn 18, your parents won’t be able to bail you out when the college professor gives you a zero, the drill seargent adds 20 miles to your hike because you didn’t follow an order, your supervisor suspends you because you violate policy or the judge sentences you for breaking a law. The sooner this fact of reality is recognized, the better prepared you’ll be for a successful future. Reward teachers like Mr. Neace by respecting and supporting their willingness to recognize what it’s going to take to educate and produce a well rounded, law abiding adult that possesses a conscientious work ethic.

By MARJIE

May 6, 2005 11:36 AM | Link to this

WAY TO GO GWINNETT! NOW WE KNOW ONE REASON GA SCHOOLS ARE RATED SO LOW NATIONALLY!

By Susan Brooks

May 6, 2005 11:55 AM | Link to this

Firing Mr. Neace is absolutely absurd! If a teacher can not use grades as motivation/penialization, what can they use?! Certainly not physical discipline. God forbid! This society is really in for it.

By Watson

May 6, 2005 12:04 PM | Link to this

I wonder if we took all the pantywaist anti jock stuff out of this where we’d be? I’ll bet without a story. Sounds like our media, AJC etc. made this a story with the jock angle. This seems to be really a bunch of jock hating by the people that couldn’t make the team. The bottom line is that Doc’s the one that broke the rules by using grades to enforce discipline. I wonder what Neal Boortz’s science grade would be if Cynthia McKinney was the science teacher? Certainly it would be an “F” because part of discipline in Cynthia’s class would be being “PC”, and that Neal couldn’t be. So Neal, kiss getting into a good college like UGA goodbye. All because Nealey’s science “A” was reduced to an “F” over “discipline”. Idiotic. For once I agree with a public school policy. It’s Doc that didn’t follow the rules, and whether the kid’s grade in question was or is a jock isn’t relevant. Could be the only family with the guts to stand up Doc’s ego pandering grading system was a jock family? All the nerd pussies just let themselves get beat up which is why this County’s going down the tubes. No one questions authority anymore - we’re mostly just a bunch of pathetic lemmings. So Doc be a man, and admit you were wrong. And Neal, once again you’re dead wrong in a very public and gaseous way.

By Don Drennon Gala, Ph.D.

May 6, 2005 12:13 PM | Link to this

This is why most teachers have dummy downed grades. The behavior of school administrators in these situations have always been suspected, discussed, and criticized, but it has been responded to by school administrators with harsh and blatant denials. These denials have been supported by school administrators pointing to their policies, which do not include such actions for giving an appropriate grade to a student. Now, we all know that this unwritten rule is in fact a reality.

Public education has experienced some drastic and unproductive changes over the past decade. We have experienced various buzz word programs coming to the education scene with millions of dollars attached to these programs that have failed to produce significant results. This is truly a sad day, not only for public education in the Atlanta region, but also for the student involved here, since he will undoubtedly never get any further in life unless he is able to land a huge contract in professional sports, which is a great gamble, one that I would not want my child to take.

In the instant situation, I believe that the Science Teacher should be reinstated, and the School Board should be axed for violating the “No Child Left Behind� mandate. They have blatantly violated this mandate by failing to bring the student up to the mandated standards required by law. Instead, the School Board has thumbed their nose at the education mandate to protect a student who obviously does not meet the educational requirements for the level that he is presently assigned.

The public, this student, and public education are the losers here.

By Carol

May 6, 2005 12:23 PM | Link to this

Dear Outraged (high school teacher)… it’s “backs THEIR teachers up” NOT, “backs there teachers up,” as you put it. I can’t believe you are teaching in high school. I work in a university: no wonder our incoming freshman are so poorly prepared for college.

By A Concerned Citizen

May 6, 2005 12:31 PM | Link to this

I would like to thank the Gwinnett County School Board for finally clarifying something for me yesterday. Children are sent to school to play football. Classroom work is an “extra curricular activity� that must be worked into the student’s busy schedule.

By Soxratez

May 6, 2005 12:43 PM | Link to this

For the past four dedcades the real purpose for public education has been to break down social barriers & blend society together. This socialization of America has taken its toll on academic success & improvement. Teachers have teach to the middle & hope for the best for the better students. Plus, preferential treatment for athletes, as in the Gwinnett Co. case, has added to the demise of true academic success. Everything has to be watered down so much so that all can be “successful” that no one really is! We’ve got no one to blame but ourselves because we accept this philosophy as OK. We cannot have it both ways. Either we accept the role of the school as an instrument of social change or we concentrate on rigid academic standards.

By tkhall

May 6, 2005 12:56 PM | Link to this

if the kid slept in a LAB session, then he could not have possibly turned in a perfect paper without cheating. he should be severly punished for that!! and the lab partener that let him copy the notes should be punished as well for helping the sleeping student cheat.

By Janie Massey

May 6, 2005 01:14 PM | Link to this

It’s ludicrous to fire a teacher who applies the same rule as he always has, just because it’s one of the school’s “Precious priveledged” athletes. Unfortunately, teachers are the only one’s to teach or apply discipline to many of the mega number of latch key kid’s of today whose parents are too busy with both parents working and the greedy quest for material things. Our current President has sailed through life with no dues to pay because he comes from a family of priveledge, so I guess the decision to fire this teacher is akin to our current administration’s set of values.

By Gary

May 6, 2005 01:19 PM | Link to this

This is nothing new! Sports is #1 in ALL county schools here! It is more important kids learn how to play a sport than to be a success in the “real world”. In every county sports comes first, then every thing else falls in line. School board members are only puppets of the superintendant and are elected by what they have promised to provide for the ones who have put them there. The State Board of Education needs to look at every county education system and start at the top and clean house. The United States education system is a joke! No public school student in Georgia can apply to one of our military academies, because Georgia requirements are so low. Well, pretty soon the Georgia standards will be as low as Mexico’s- go to school if you want.

By steven

May 6, 2005 01:35 PM | Link to this

In my four years experience as a high school teacher in Gwinnett and countless more hours in various other Gwinnett schools (including Dacula) as a university field instructor who supervises student-teachers, I am convinced that Gwinnett County Schools is rotten to the core (has everyone forgotten a few years back when principals and bureaucrats in the county office were caught falsifying displine records?). In my second year as a teacher there I was forced to change a slothful student’s grade after the mother had put extreme pressure on my department head. In addition, last year I had a unique experience at Dacula that allowed me to see first hand that the athletic director there is truly the one who runs the school

By Leslie

May 6, 2005 01:41 PM | Link to this

I agree with the school’s policy. People are assuming that a typical “A” student cheated. Maybe it’s a sleep condition apnea is not only for adults. I must admit I have a problem staying awake in class or a presentation but many factors surround that. If I’ve been up all night, if the class is boring and uninteresting. I wouldn’t let he athletic ability play into to this, not all athletes are dummies. But I think that another form of punishment other than taking away from what he truly earned in his grade and cutting it in half in justifiable. I recieved a degree and made it through the military even though I fell asleep through some of the presentations.

By BOB

May 6, 2005 01:51 PM | Link to this

THIS TEACHER WILL PROBABLY FIND OUT THAT THIS ACTION WAS A BLESSING. SOME PRIVATE SCHOOL WITH HIGH STANDARDS WILL GRAB HIM UP, PAY A DECENT SALARY AND GIVE HIM WHAT THIS SCHOOL BOARD DOESN’T UNDERSTAND, THATS “RESPECT”. THE PRINCIPAL SHOULD BE THE ONE FIRED FOR HIS “GUTLESS” ACTION, A NEW SCHOOL BOARD APPOINTED, AND THE STUDENT HOME SCHOOLED BY HIS INTELLIGENT PARENTS.MY HOW TIMES HAVE CHANGED, SCHOOL POLICY DETERMINED BY STUDENT ATHLETES.

By Gwinnett teacher's aren't the greatest

May 6, 2005 01:51 PM | Link to this

He probably fell asleep because teachers aren’t teaching him crap. These days it’s up to the parents to teach their children. The teachers only test. This is what I have come to see from the Gwinnett County school system. Look on their website to see what all your child is supposed to know before he or she will be passed onto the next level. It’s the parent’s responsibility to teach them and the teacher’s to evaluate. Gwinnett counties school’s policies suck. Must have been written during the stoneage. Get in tune with the rest of the country. On that sad note I do agree that the teacher did not follow policy.

By Concerned Parent

May 6, 2005 02:33 PM | Link to this

It is really a shame that this principal does not have the same backbone as this teacher. This is not the first case of a pricipal not being able to make the right call, though not the most popular. Hope he received a big check for his athletic program from this, that seems to be the principlae first priority these days!!!

By pinkbunny

May 6, 2005 03:29 PM | Link to this

Sadly, this situation sounds all too familiar. As a twenty-three year educator myself, I left two years ago because of growing disillusionment with administrative policies. This teacher is trying to fight the good fight; he cares about teaching the whole student, not just physics. He understands that we are responsible for developing the character of the individual as well as the intellect. As long as the student is doing well, parents support this policy. Yet when a student makes a mistake, some parents refuse to make him accept the consequences of that mistake, and instead attempt to intercede on his behalf, apparently believing they are helping.

Unfortunately, they are teaching this young man that the GRADE is the most important thing. One hopes that he has stayed awake in class enough to learn that this is not the case, and that sometime in the future he will make the effort to contact Mr. Nease to apologize to him. It is unfortunate that he will be unable to apologize to all the young people who will not have the opportunity to learn from Mr. Nease at Dacula High School in the future. Were I a parent in that community, I would be withdrawing my children from that school today. It is clear that true education is not the real priority.

Good luck to you, Mr. Nease. Real teachers everywhere salute you.

By Dina

May 6, 2005 03:41 PM | Link to this

Teachers like Mr. Neace are invaluable and very much needed by our kids. He is much more suited to another state that isn’t failing miserably at #50 and completely obsessive about useless sports. The fact that the good ole boys in Gwinnett kicked our Mr. Neace in favor of meaningless football games speaks volumes of how GA has its rightful place at the bottom of the totem pole for education and academic achievement.

By eCLAY

May 9, 2005 09:46 AM | Link to this

Some of these kids who are being messed up by their parents will be in for a rude awakening when they come into the real world.I work for a company that if you are caught sleeping it is “out the door”. This behavior is rude,disrespectful and inexcuseable.There is no way I would be a teacher these days because the kids are out of hand due to parents who will not train them to be decent respectable people.It goes back to the bible when it says obey those who have rule over you.Authority is going out of the window if we as adults do not take a stand and take it back.I applaud Mr. Nease for not being afraid to take the stand; the cost is great but God will bless him for standing up.Parents please wake up and take back the authority that God has given you to train and raise your children.These will be your grandchildren’s parents, someone’s spouse, etc. I have experienced bad relationships due to somebody not training their precious one.

By Jason P

May 9, 2005 12:51 PM | Link to this

I see the point of several of the people who support the firing. Your support is based on the fact that Wesley “completed” the given assignment, with a 100% grade, then the grade was slashed in half. You either weren’t at the hearing Thursday, or you weren’t listening! This seems to be the case with the School Board, so you’re in “intelligent” company, at least. What you good folks and the board fail to realize is This was not a homework assignment! Doc handed it out, to be completed in class, and when he saw there wasn’t a reasonable amount of time, he told the students “You will have 10-15 minutes in the morning to complete it.” So, the student’s 100% either meant A) He did it all at home, or B) He cheated by copying it all from another student during the 10 minutes allowed the next morning. That’s why Doc was kind in assuming he could have maybe done half of it the next morning, but knew he was not working on it the first day. Doc Neace’s ONLY mistake, which I’m sure he won’t repeat, was to not take up everyone’s papers at the end of class, and pass them out again the next day. If you can argue Doc should be fired for not taking them up/passing out next day, go ahead with your argument. Otherwise, SHUT UP about saying the kid’s 100% was taken away from him, because it would have been impossible for him do get a 100 in 10 minutes, without cheating! Jason

By Janette

May 13, 2005 01:04 PM | Link to this

I would like to see an update on this issue. I can’t believe that some kid could get away with this! Shame on the weasle of a principal and really, really shame on this boy’s parents! When will kids take responsibility for their actions and not hide behind their misguided, bullying parents? I hope the parents are willing to continue to be responsible for their son when he’s 20, 30, and most likely when he’s 50!!

Here we are with yet another black eye for Georgia’s educational system and our national averages!! I wouldn’t send any child of mine to this Dacula school. The standards are way, way too low!

By Andy

May 13, 2005 02:29 PM | Link to this

Saw the story on Fox News. It seemed so incredible that I searched the Web for details and ended up here. I was a high school teacher,coach and administrator for 34 years, receiving many honors along the way If I had worked at Dacula High School, I would have been fired within a week. What the teacher did was completly justifiable. My only caveat is that he did not go far enough. On the rare occasion when a student slept in my class, I would casually walk by his desk, pull up a corner, then let it drop. That took care of the problem, end of story.

What really troubles me is the message the father is sending to his little spoiled brat son. Do the wrong thing, and I will back you up. From the Blog I read, the kid is a loser to begin with.

I’ve got to believe their is a back story here. It is practically impossible to find high school physics teachers anywhere in our country. Even sub-mediocre ones are prized. Lacking some other explanation, the Gwinnett County School Board must be made up of politically correct morons. I hope the teacher sues the pants off these fools.