Get Schooled

By lucian

May 2, 2005 02:08 PM | Link to this

Can’t we all just color? And play games and sing songs and enjoy the life of a 5 year old?

By Lisa

May 2, 2005 02:42 PM | Link to this

I want to say this, allow kids to be kids!! when I was growing up we learn in a way of singing.when children sing they remember and they also retain infomation,right now I can remember the educational songs from years back. It’s kind of awful that school have become all about numbers!!Instead of learning and teaching kids on there level.Once the school start putting all kids in a box instead of grouping kids off base on learning level, the education system made things hard on themself!! Instead of using a common sense approach with teaching and making sure kids learn.

By NotMyProblem

May 2, 2005 03:01 PM | Link to this

Lisa - judging by your lack of punctuation and the terrible sentence structure and spelling in your post, it is proabably a very good thing that there is now more education expected of kindergardeners than there was when you went. You may remember your songs from back then, but you appear to have forgotten how to form a correct sentence, which I would say is probably more important. I think it’s a very good thing that children are focusing more on learning than playing. The world is a very competitive place and there is nothing wrong with setting high expectations for our children. Young kids today are much more advanced and able to absorb knowledge than we give them credit for. Besides, a child should already know how to count and know their ABC’s by the time they get to kindergarden. It is a parent’s job to prepare them for the learning environment throught reading and other kinds of mind stimulation. Setting low expectations is one way to make sure they are always met.

By Shauna

May 2, 2005 03:38 PM | Link to this

I’m back. Been gone a week and I see that I missed some good stuff.

Notmyproblem,

I think that criticizing Lisa was wrong. She is allowed to voice her opinion. By the way, do you have any kids in school right now?

I’m lucky, my 7 year old loves to learn, she was past kindergarten when she was 3. I put her in private school and they had a hard time challenging her. Like I said, I’m just lucky. Now my 1 1/2 year old boy is totally different. I’m not sure if he’ll take off like his big sister did, but he isn’t as interested in learning. He wants to run around and have fun. He doesn’t like the videos and learning games. Maybe that will change as he gets older. People tell me all the time that boys are different than girls.

Parents, teachers and administrators need to remember that school needs to be fun. Sure, there needs to be structure and learning, but they also need to have some fun. These children have their whole lives to work and be serious. Now is their time to learn, have fun and be free.

Plus, it’s a known, proven fact that children learn better with songs. If you don’t believe it, everybody think back to SCHOOL HOUSE ROCK!!

I’ll bet you all are singing the “I’m Just A Bill” song as you read this. I loved that episode. I actually bought it for my daughter and now she is so interested in how the government works. Again, I’m Blessed.

Back to the subject - 5 year olds need to be 5, no matter what environment they are in.

By LISA

May 2, 2005 03:39 PM | Link to this

Well NotMyProblem It’s amazing how people like you continue to write and and insult people like me!!! I’am only expressing my opinion!!! Please answer the question!!!I have the upmost respect for Education and I do have high expectation!!! however I’am a realist!!! every child do not learn the same way!!!Grown ups need to accept that!!! Just do your part to bring out what ever gift and talent God have place in your child life.Parents are so busy trying to live thru there kids that’s one of the reason why they rebel so bad!!!I mean I’am not some one who don’t have kids and just BLAH BLAH BLAH!!! at the mouth! I know and I have learn!!!! so NotMyProblem just know that I can’t say anything bad about you because I don’t know you!!! So I do apologize for not insulting you!!Peace Be Unto You.

By Sly

May 2, 2005 03:45 PM | Link to this

Yo - notmyproblem - you do have a problem with your ghetto self. Proofread your post before you go bustin on another sister, ya pinhead. Lisa’s comments are much better than your tripe anyway. Yea LISA!

By Lisa

May 2, 2005 03:56 PM | Link to this

Sly:Thank you brother!!! and Thank you Shauna!!! we disagree to agree in a loving and respectful way!!!And I want to say Thank you!!!Peace Be Unto You!!!

By Dissatisfied

May 2, 2005 04:00 PM | Link to this

I had my seven year enrolled at a LaPetite facility for Pre-K to advance to Kindergarten. Needless to say, that she was not prepared for Kindergarten at this facility. Childcare locations are limited in my area, and this school, emphasized on a structured cirriculum, however the results showed differently. I’ve truly learned from this experience, because she now faces certain challenges which could have been developed during this initial stage. The structured environment as well as a fun-filled activities with primarily an educational foundation is an A+ center in my book!!

By Shauna

May 2, 2005 04:02 PM | Link to this

LISA,

Are you Muslim? I really don’t care and if you don’t want to answer I’ll understand. I just ask because no matter what anyone says to you, you still wish them well and wish them peace. That takes a big person to do. Over the past few weeks, I have seen some people say some pretty nasty things to you and you remain steadfast in your endeavor to wish them peace. I would have cussed them out. No matter what, your heart is in the right place and anyone who cannot see that is blind.

By LISA

May 2, 2005 04:25 PM | Link to this

I’am not muslim I just have respect for human life!!! I’am Save by grace and mercy!! I was just taught as a child to respect other people opinion as well for me to understand everyone don’t and won’t see things the same way!!!So that’s why I can take It!! I was taught that talk is talk!!And for me to only speak on thing that I know about!!! it’s sad when you see people commenting about the things they never experience!!!We as people sometimes assume without knowing for self!!! and that what keep people prejudice among each other all the time!!!!

By darrell

May 2, 2005 04:35 PM | Link to this

not my problem do me a favor SHUT UP!!!!!!!!!

By DD

May 2, 2005 05:16 PM | Link to this

Kindergarten should still be fun, and I’m sure it still is, but I think it’s as good idea to start on harder concepts earlier on in school. We learn more at an earlier age (ever tried to teach an old dog new tricks?) and alot of what we learn will be carried with us farther if we learn it at a younger age. Many other countries start kids out on their second language in kindergarten, because it is often easier to teach a new language to them and have them actually remember it than it is to teach middle school kids the same language. Kids can handle more info than we think they can. They don’t know that writing full sentences in their journals is hard work. They think it is fun and get a sense of accomplishment from doing it. Sure, they still need to color and sing songs, but if they already got the basics in Pre-K, then why not challenge them a little in kindergarten? If good test scores result, great. If not, you still challenged a child to learn more and do more than they were doing before.

By Lisa

May 3, 2005 09:41 AM | Link to this

With all the neurosis popping up in high school aged kids (and younger), maybe, just maybe, we should rethink the emphasis on knowledge versus wisdom. Any teacher will tell you that kids today mostly lack the social skills and discipline (more important than fractions, I think) to behave in school without becoming bored after two minutes. Speaking from personal experience (I was raised for eleven years in public schools), the methodology in public school behind the push for young children to be made as efficient as possible for the sake of social order is one day going to bite us hard as we watch young children struggle with increasing anxiety and depression.

By She-She

May 3, 2005 09:51 AM | Link to this

Shauna, I have a 5-year-old son. I have been told boys take a little time but when they take off, they really take off. From experience I have tried to place him in a structured environment, exposing him to the concepts but not get in an uproar when he does not grasp it immediately (of course this frame of mind did not come over night). I believe we all want what is best for our children; I don’t think any of us want to place our children at a disadvantage. So I would say, “study your child, know you child” and move forward.

By T. R.

May 3, 2005 09:54 AM | Link to this

Boy, Georgia will do anything to try and raise their scores, won’t they?

We moved here 4 years ago from Ohio and our old district had no pre-k and HALF DAY kindergarden. We had this cRaZy idea that kindergarden was supposed to prepare you for school, not be your second full year.

Yet - dispite the fact that 1/2 day kindergarten is quite common in Ohio and also has a large rural population - Ohio still has far better scores than Georgia. What gives?

I oppose the “pusing down” of curriculum so strongly, that my 4 year old will be playing in the yard, singing songs, and coloring next year at home, with her family, like 4 year olds should be doing.

And as for Kindergarden - instead of Boot Camp, she’ll be joining her sister in Homeschool - where a kid can be a kid.

By Nikki

May 3, 2005 10:07 AM | Link to this

I agree that Kindergarten should be fun. I see we are emphasizing on the fact that children should be know certain things by the time they arrive in Kindergarten. But let’s be realistic, if our Pre-K centers are not structured and teaching our children what they should know by Kindergarten, then why should we blame the children. It’s ok to set high expectations, but we must first come up with a standard curriculm for Pre-K programs to ensure our children know all the material that they are expected to know by Kindergarten. So, I say to administrators who are so interested in scoring high on test, students learn differently and at different paces, if a child is unable to score high on a test it does not mean the child is a failure. Set realistic expectations to ensure a successful child, not a high test score.

By Virginia

May 3, 2005 10:18 AM | Link to this

NotMyProblem, DID YOU CHECK YOUR SPELLING, GRAMMER AND PUNCTUATION? Guess not.

By David

May 3, 2005 10:27 AM | Link to this

Lisa, I agree with you. As educators we have spent so much time trying to teach kids factual knowledge they will need for “the test,” that we haven’t taught them how to think. I hated school when I was a kid, but I knew more about how to solve problems when I got out of high school (back in the dark ages) than my own kids did when they were sophomores in college (in the 1990’s). We forgot school should be about making sure everyone got the basics before we went on into more difficult subjects.

As a high school teacher, all I really need to teach a high school 9th grade science class is a kid who can read on the 8th grade level, do math on the 8th grade level, and can write on the 8th grade level. How many do I get that can do this? Ans: very, very few.

We start our kids in school earlier and earlier and they know less and less when they get to high school. Maybe we need to go back to what was working before we let “education professsionals/researchers” take over.

By Virginia

May 3, 2005 10:44 AM | Link to this

NotMyroblem… PUNCTUATION, was misspelled for a reason. Wonder why children are under so much stress these days? Look at the school systems, too much is put on their plate, at too early of an age. Let children learn to form social skills and then, immerse them into reading, writing and math. Half of the children can’t even spell, or speak properly these days. Ever try to focus on a person talking, that every other word is “like?” Hard to do.

By JR

May 3, 2005 11:23 AM | Link to this

Based on a lot of earlier comments, I gather it’s the school’s fault for forcing them to learn so young AND it’s the school’s fault for the kids not learning AND it’s the school’s fault for having the audacity to actually test them to see what they have learned….

Unless I’m missing something, it’s pretty much the school’s fault. Kids learn all day long… in school and at home while “playing” they are constantly learning especially the young ones! But I think schools are the easy target here.

By Cheryl

May 3, 2005 12:03 PM | Link to this

As a teacher, I think that challenging kids where they are ready to be challenged is a good thing. Some children are ready to do more than color and sing in kindergarten. Any early childhood teacher worth her/his salt is going to make the learning process one filled with fun, creativity, and joy. But to insist that kindergarten serve solely as a place to color and play when many children are ready to do much more isn’t fair to those children. Also, to add another dimension to this post, what about the children who come to kindergarten not knowing how to hold a pencil or tie their shoes, and have no relationship with books at all? What about kids who come from low-income communities, who, studies show, due to a variety of complex reasons, are already behind when they arrive in school, and the gap continues to widen as they get older? I know that children learn a lot through play, but aren’t we doing these children a disservice by setting such low expectations when so much can be gained from that year of kindergarten?

By Ruthie

May 3, 2005 03:24 PM | Link to this

My son is 4 1/2 and currently in preK. He learns and manages to have fun at the same time! Imagine that??

By Frustrated from DC

May 3, 2005 03:34 PM | Link to this

I moved to Georgia this school year from Washington, DC and I can say that the school system is the one thing that frustrates me the most about my move. I have a third grader who gets all A’s but my kindergartener is being threatened within retention. I have never heard of a child being retained in Kindergarten. I think that is absolutely ludacris. I am a strong advocate for education and I am also a realist and want is expected of “K” children in the Georgia school system is unrealistic. Some chidren can and should be pushed and given higher expectations while there are other children who cannot handle that pressure. I do not see that there is any midpoint in learning. Every child is being taught on the same level and to me that is a recipe for failure. The bulk of my frustration comes from the fact that me child is trying his hardest and has shown major improvement. How do you boost a child’s morale whose trying their hardest but it still is not good enough?

By Shauna

May 3, 2005 03:40 PM | Link to this

Why is it that when we are talking about this subject “low-income” kids are always pointed out as if they are the only ones lacking education. Trust me, there are plenty of middle class and upper class kids that may not have been shown how to tie their shoes either. As a matter of fact, I was talking to a woman in Alpharetta about 3 years ago and when I asked her why her child couldn’t tie his shoe, she told me that is what he goes to school for. So, trust me, it’s not only low income students whose parents neglect to help educate them.

By Cheryl

May 3, 2005 04:04 PM | Link to this

Shauna: The reason that I brought up “low-income” and often do when talking about education is because I find that many people lose sight of the realities that face these kids when discussing education. I am well aware that middle and upper class children do not all come to school with the tools that they need (example: tying shoes), but low-income children coming to school without these basic tools have a different set of consequences facing them than do their middle and upper class counterparts. I teach in a low-income school and I teach with urgency, not because I think that these children are “disadvantaged” or somehow below middle and upper class kids. I teach with urgency because I know the statistics that say that when a low income child is behind, the chances of him/her catching up decrease the older he/she gets. Middle and upper class children are more likely to get expensive tutoring and other support materials. So, when we discuss kindergarten and what it should entail, I am especially interested in how the discussion relates to the children who may not have the extra resources to “catch up”.

By Suwanee

May 3, 2005 04:04 PM | Link to this

While “notmyproblem” may have stated his/her opinion in a confrontational way, it is still his/her opinion of which he/she is as deserving as everyone else. To tell him/her to “shut up” is as confrontational and non-productive as was his/her statement and does not advance the discussion. We should all try to state our opinions in as clear, well-written, logical and non-emotional a way as possible, remembering that this forum is a chance to better our own writing skills as well as a way to receive feed-back to grow our own opinions.

Kindergarten has most certainly changed since my day. There was only Captain Kangaroo and Disney’s Mickey Mouse Club that could be labeled educational television. “Sesame Street” and “The Electric Company” were only a glint in a producer’s eye and my mother didn’t need to think about our safety when she sent us out to play at 7 a.m., never seeing us again until lunch. Kindergarten was a time of small learning expectations related to how to play in a group and learning to share, both skills of which I did need to develop since playing with my little sister meant forcing her to give me my way.

That said, I also believe that things have changed but for the better if we will all relax. A good blend of learning and play is the best way to go. Singing the lessons is certainly a proven way of imparting information to young minds, but I think that it is only a learning tool and not addressing the issues raised by the reporter. Children are learning sponges and will soak up anything we give them, but to give them massive amounts of homework but little or no play-time or exercise, has been dis-proven to work.

My opinion and suggestions would focus around the need for assessment of the child’s level of preschool, at-home advancement before pre-K or kindergarten admittance. Rather than blame Society or low incomes without a real way to fix those issues unless we become an admitted socialist/communist state, a standardized pre-school assessment could give the parents specifics things to do and suggestions of what to work on at home before admitting their child into an environment that he/she might enter at a disadvantage. It would also shift the responsibility to the parents where it belongs. Then, if the parents do not do as recommended, we know where the problem lies, or if they do do as suggested and the child still does not learn, we know that the parents are either not being honest or the child has real learning difficulties which can also be addressed.

Additionally, different levels of readiness aren’t necessarily related to whether or not parents hold jobs. I believe it has more to do with the committment of the parent or parents to assist the child daily at home rather than IF they work. I know of many single, working mothers that hold full-time jobs and, although dog-tired, still manage to assist their children with home work every night. I also have first-hand knowledge of some very privileged children who have either non-working mothers or both parents that work yet they never seem to have time to sit with their kids for anything, school work included. Then there are parent like my sister and brother-in-law who are very affluent, both working full-time, but one or the other are at present spending 2-3 hours every night at the dinner table or desk with my nephew working on homework, and spent the same amount of time with his sister when she was his age.

Children do reach an age when they can study by themselves, but if I may use my sister’s experience with her kids as an example, that doesn’t seems to happen until around age 13.

We seem as a society to be moving away from responsibility within the home first, which also seems to be contributing to confusion over what to do in our schools. To emphasize responsibility at home does not in any way point a blaming finger at parents but it does ask that parents first look at themselves and their educational time commitments to their children before defensively blaming teachers or the school system.

Traditionally, children often have been held back a year from entrance into pre-K or kindergarten due to established birthday cut-offs. Many studies have shown that those children entering a year later often do better with the additional time to mature than do those that enter early.

It is time that everyone each take responsibility for their own part and get together for a non-finger pointing discussion of solutions for the future. We are all the problem and we are all the solution. What we don’t do now, we or our children will pay for later.

By Shae

May 3, 2005 04:10 PM | Link to this

I agree with alot of these posts. Kindergarten should be fun. Yes children need to learn the basics such as reading, writing, and basic math in Kindergarten-but when did it have to stop being fun??? My youngest sister is in Kindergarten and they recently took nap time away from them. These kids are only 5 and 6. Some have never even been in school or daycare and it is all new to them. Having nap time can make them less antsy and relax more… To Lisa: I agree with NotMyProblem on the fact that you have no sentence structure and I have read your posts and you can barely understand what points you are getting at. I commend you for being able to brush comments from others off and I am not trying to start a feud but it seems that if you care about education and helping your children get proper education you would educate yourself and realize that proper English is somewhat important…

Back to topic:let kids be kids for as long as possible. We have children growing up so fast-getting pregnant at 14-smoking pot at 12-let them play and learn songs and just have fun!

By belleabroad

May 4, 2005 11:39 AM | Link to this

I have read the posts on this site with interest, as someone currently working in the education field. I would like to respond to the other issues raised at some point, but in the meantime… Lisa’s posts are painful to read as they are scattered and full of horrific grammar and more exclamation points than should ever be gathered in one place. It has gotten to the point that I skip them, no matter the content. I understand why you might feel the need to defend her, however, defending something that is wrong is almost never the right thing to do. Others on here have minor typographical errors, indeed, I might as well, but the content of the posts are clear and ususally understandable. Her posts have aggravated me since I started reading on this site and so after someone has been lambasted for saying something about them I just thought I would add.. he might not have been “nice” but he certainly was correct!

By Sylvia

May 13, 2005 03:55 PM | Link to this

My son went to half day kindergarten in Cape Elizabeth, Maine - in one of the best schools in the state - schools that beat Georgia and South Carolina many times over. We moved to S. Carolina in October of first grade (in Maine that was only 4 weeks into the school year but in the South that was 8 weeks in because of the ridiculously early start dates. When we got to S.C. I was stunned. They were testing the kids in math and spelling and reading already - that early into first grade. It was horrible as my poor, very bright kid, got thrust from putting together geometric puzzles, playing in the snow, exploring things children need in order to become healthy grownups. He eventually caught up and ended up with all “A”s, but there were a lot of stomachaches and other unnecessary stuff. I talked to his teacher in Maine, and they had a totally different philosophy. They want children to love school, to expand their imaginations by writing in journals, being creative - that sort of thing. By the end of the year they have caught up with the other high-powered kids, but they have gotten something far more valuable - their precious childhood. The South is just so desperate to get on track that have often forgotten that they are teaching children, not robots. I would love to track these kids after they graduate and see what happens to them - which ones become miserable corporate slogs, and which become creative, versatile, adaptive adults. Germany and Japan have a 240 day school year, but can you name one modern German/Japanese author? Artist? Musician? What becomes of these grinds? Computer geeks? That’s okay for some but not for all. Its interesting that these are the countries that attacked the Allies during WWII. It says something about their psyche -which I for one do not want my child emulating!

By Kathryn

May 16, 2005 08:45 AM | Link to this

Sylvia,

I could not agree with you more! I grew up in San Francisco and my memory is very keen on what I was taught and when. I moved with my children to Atlanta Georgia a few years ago and I’m disliking it more and more. Why? Because of the the school system here. It is very militant and they want these kids to be good soldiers. My son started out in the Pre-k program here which I thought was good because it is a day long program and I could get back to work. I was so wrong, it was not the best decision, it was over crowded and the teachers yelled at the kids. This was supposed to be a fun supportive environment instead they insisted to have my son tested for ADD and then brought in a psychaitrist to prove that he had it and without my permission!!! Well he failed the test with flying colors meaning that he didn’t have that! He was a normal bright kid who wanted to play and have fun but they were so much more interested in a “structured” enviornment with structured equaling dicipline the good ole southern way! Kindergarten for him was wonderful, more like what a pre-k environment should have been. I guess we got lucky with that class and teacher. 1st grade was spent back in California and there were no problems. 2nd grade hit him like a ton of bricks! We moved to Rockdale County here in GA and then it became overburdoning for him. Stacks of work plopped down in front of him with an expectation that he finishes by the end of the day. A teacher told him that he was the worst behaved child in all of her 28 years of teaching to his face while they were on a Fieldtrip. I called the Board of ED and talked to the Asst. Superintdant and I was blown off- He obviously supported the Teacher talking to my child that way. My son started to shut down and refuse to do his work. He was simply not used to this kind of treatment. 3rd Grade the same pattern of behavior developed and the teachers were the same. Dicipline dicipline dicipline! A teachers assistant grabbed my sons arm and scratched him so hard that it bled. She disappeared with no apology. The children had no recess, it was a priviledge that had to be earned. They were not allowed to sit where they want when eating breakfast (which is before school starts) or lunch at school. They are assigned tables by class. They have big orange cones in the hallways to make sure the kids always stay to the right when they are walking in them. There is a check system that they use each day in class to monitor a kids behavior and if that child gets more than 4 checks in a week, that child loses his Free Friday afternoon which is about an hour of free time. My son is now in the 4th grade and has had only 2 free fridays for the whole year. I also let them talk me in to putting him in Special Edcuation this year for behavior. I will say this only one time, MY CHILD IS NOT VIOLENT AND I NEVER AGREED TO USING PHYSICAL FORCE ON MY CHILD. At the end of April, I was informed that my child was put into a restraint hold by his Special Ed teacher and her assistant helped hold him down. Reason? He was refusing to do work that he had already done with me at home,refused to call me and was arguing back with the teacher about it. The teacher grabbed his wrists with a pressure hold, pulled him out of his chair, slammed/pushed him into a counter top, cabinet, and desk and then put him in a restraint hold where his arms were pulled criss cross across his chest and he was told, “Your momma is going to whip your a**!” He was held on the floor for so long that his legs started to go numb. The principal was not notified until 8 days later when DFACS showed up at the school asking questions. Why this day of all days if his behaviors were no different? Simple, the teacher lost her cool. I know that I have strayed from the subject a bit but this is important and it happend to my child in the Georgia public school system. People wonder why they had the shootnig at Heritage HS and a loaded gun was just taken off of a kid at Memorial Middle School in Rockdale last week! (My daughter attended MMS last year by the way.) They are so hell bent on getting funding that they are willing to sacrafice the childern to do so. They’re making them into little machines that can spit out facts as quickly as a computer. Let the kids be kids, let them develop social skills, let them play. Stop shoving cirriculum down their throats and mentally abusing them with it, it’s not right. My son is in the 4th grade and is being taught 7th grade level math, english, and social studies… Why?????

By Kathryn

May 16, 2005 09:06 AM | Link to this

To all of the “spell checkers” out there,
Knock it off. This isn’t about spell checking each other because I know that I have a few mistakes in my post and I’m college educated. (I don’t care haha) As long as she (Lisa) is able to communicate the point she wants to make, then leave her alone. Are we writing to impress each other or are we talking about education?

By Kathryn

May 16, 2005 09:18 AM | Link to this

I forgot to mention something else. Pysical Ed. Why the heck was PE taken out of the schools? Children need that hour and I know my son has PE once a week in a structured enviornment once again. I remember being in Elementary quite well, the children had a morning recess, a recess after they ate their lunch until the teachers rang the bells to come line up and go back to class. (Yes we could go outside on the yard and play with who we wanted even our friends from another class, imagine that!!) They also had an afternoon recess. Children need to burn off energy and they need breaks as adults do. What our children do not need is micro-management! I know adults hate to be micro-managed, why let it be done to our kids? It was taken out of the schools to make way for more work. I have pity on the kids in public schools these days. Home schooling is starting to look like a better option more and more.