Get Schooled

By Shauna

April 15, 2005 10:13 AM | Link to this

I think that the parents and the students should initiate conversations about vocational classes. I know where I went to school (Newport News, VA), all students were required to take at least one vocational class. But, we also included classes like typing, computers and shop. Our vocational classes covered a wide area. My children are not old enough to be in high school yet, but I would like to know exactly what kind of classes are being offered.

Not all kids want to go to college and truthfully, not all kids could handle college. And, for the record, that is not a bad thing. I think that it is very responsible and insightful of them to know that before they waste the money that college costs.

By Faye

April 15, 2005 10:19 AM | Link to this

The practical idea behind education (as opposed to the idealistic goal of knowledge for its own sake)is to create productive members of a society that can contribute to that society - in other words, workers that can work, make money, pay taxes, and buy goods. Not all students are college bound,nor should they be.

I don’t think it’s a bad thing to say that - there are many skilled jobs that, while they don’t require a college degree, they do require the skill! And, they make decent money - electricians, plumbers, carpenters, mechanics, etc.

Some children are drawn to activities that use their hands - others to those that use their heads. Neither is preferrable to the other in my opinion.

Most children turned off by school are turned off because they can’t see the relevance of a subject to their life. If we had more options - apprenticeships starting in middle school for example - that allowed children to try out new experiences and learn valuable skills at the same time, I think our children (and society) would be better served.

By the way - I have a college diploma, but I had a tough time getting a job because I had no “job skills” - my college prep courses in high school didn’t give me any! My daughter is graduating this year (and is college bound) but I made sure she had some basic secretarial skills - she will always be able to work somewhere!

By Lisa

April 15, 2005 10:31 AM | Link to this

I know for a fact that every student is not college, reason for being is that God have a purpose and plane for everyone.my son have been drawing since 2yrs old he is also great with his hands,he know hoe to fix things and rebuild also.when it come to school he say it’s boring! i had him tested and he have a IQ of a genuis!!yet he struggle academically.i know that he excell other areas.I do explain to my son he must finish school and do his best!! BUT i don’t cram college down his throat!!! his interest is in fixing cars and long as i let my son beaware of learning basics as well he take business class which he love!!! because he want to open his own business.The school system must wake up and realize that you must see the gift and talents each student have a work off it,Parents as well must realize this also.For African American Parents they so much want to send there kids to corporate america insted of capitalizing on there kids gifts and talents we know they are best and brightest in this field of bein educated yet we own 13% of business in america.reason,we don’t want to run a dry cleaner any more or a construction company, or stores.reason.ignorance!! not knowing your gifts and wanting to be something your not.I now looking back wish i would have enroll my son in a montessori school, where the help kids with school but allow them to be free with creativity and there gifts. If you don’t believe me, just ask the GOOLGE OWNER!!!!

By Ann

April 15, 2005 10:39 AM | Link to this

Lisa, I agree. Going to college shouldn’t be a requirement. However, you might want to make sure that your son has the basic skills to start his own business. Those skills include being able to write using proper English. Please do not shortchange your son by not encouraging him to learn everything that he can while he is in school and not accepting anything but his best. When we do not write correctly, it gives others the impression that we are uneducated and ignorant. Giving such an impression is not good for any business.

By Swan

April 15, 2005 10:41 AM | Link to this

Thanks for posting this question, Patti! This issue doesn’t get the attention you might think it does because as you said, most schools are getting pressured to send kids on to college.

The old vision of “Vo Tech”, in some schools, was that it was the place of last resort. This is where many teachers sent the “not so bright” kids to learn a trade and keep them out of trouble. It was often seen as a dumping ground. As a result, a lot of these kids were labelled as being dumb when they weren’t at all. I think this misconception still exists at a lot of schools. So the proper resources aren’t spent on creating good career/technical programs.

Another thing some schools with CT programs don’t do is look at the local industry/business situation to see what jobs would be available to their students when they graduate. They might choose to put in an allied health program but if they’re in a rural area and the hospital is 60 miles away, that’s going to make it hard for students to get any hands-on job shadow experience.

You make a good point with the Maxwell School of Technology, although I’ve never visited it myself. But the situation you talk about is a familiar one. There’s a high-quality tech school but not enough students attending because a lot of them don’t even know it exists.

I try not to fault counselors/guidance staff because they have a hard enough job as it is. But they’re being told to push college, college, college. Counselors/guidance staff spend so much time supervising testing and a million other things. So setting up visits to the local tech. center may end up on the bottom of the list.

Frankly, I don’t think this is truly going to change until administrators and counselors begin to see that the career/technical route is not a dumping ground or a path to low-paying jobs. Some of these jobs require complex mathematical skills and computer savvy. They’re probably going to require an additional two years of post-secondary training, too. These are NOT jobs for slackers. And some of them pay quite well!

The fact is that the competition for spaces at traditional colleges is the most intense it has been in years. Requirements are going up and kids are knocking themselves out to get accepted. Not all of them are going to get in. That makes the need for career/technical training even greater.

I’ll be quiet now. :-)

By David

April 15, 2005 10:43 AM | Link to this

On the contrary, I think almost anyone who can hold a part-time job and perform reasonably at it can graduate from college—especially a smaller state school that isn’t exactly a Georgia Tech. I’m living proof of that.

By Nina

April 15, 2005 11:06 AM | Link to this

I love all of the posts because it is true that college is not for everyone. I am in agreement with similar posts that what is most important is teaching basic skills, like how to fax and make copies, how to professionally answer the phone, how to conduct basic financial transactions, like writing and cashing a check. Whether you are a mechanic or day laborer, you will probably have the need to fax, write a check or cash a check. Also, one post mentioned identifying gifts and talents in our kids. So many parents are focusing on their kids making a lot of money that they push them to pursue careers that their hearts are not into. Why not let them follow their gifts and talents but couple them with strong skills so that they can establish their own businesses, even if its a part-time gig that they do while working full-time. Or why not teach them ways to make wise investments in real estate so that their money is working for them so they can do their “ideal job” using their gifts and talents. EVERY person has something unique about them and are gifted to do only what they can do…but they spend so much time doing things they are not good at that they are missing out on truly enjoying the life that God intended for them to have. My prayer is that parents help mold them into the person they were created to be and hold the schools accountable for teaching them basic skills that will allow them to survive no matter which path they decide to take post-high school.

By high school teacher

April 15, 2005 11:14 AM | Link to this

Most high school teachers readily agree on the need for vocational courses in school. My husband saves us hundreds on car mechanics because he took shop in high school and can work on the car. I have students who will make more than I ever will because they will get a job in the mechanics industry. It’s a shame that we can’t better prepare them in high school.

The problem is that the government feels that everyone should go to college. Funding for vocational programs has been cut drastically. Local school systems can’t afford to fund certain programs without state and federal money, so they dissolve the programs, at the expense of our students.

By Lynn

April 15, 2005 11:24 AM | Link to this

I too have visited that Maxwell High School in Gwinnett. One of the things that I remember, years later, is that the students were required to pass the GA high school exams and that sometimes the students who need the vocational programs the most weren’t on track academically to go to Maxwell.

My tour guide was a young man who was headed to GA Tech so clearly Maxwell doesn’t just appeal to non-college bound students.

By Shauna

April 15, 2005 11:25 AM | Link to this

A college degree is a college degree. It doesn’t matter where it comes from. A degree from DeVry is just as good as a degree from GA Tech.

But Swan has a point, a lot of these technical jobs pay much better than traditional jobs. Just look at all of the construction going on around the metro Atlanta area! Vo-tech classes should not be taken lightly. People can make a great impact in this country from learning skills at a Vo-tech school and applying them in everyday situations.

I went to a traditional college and I can’t seem to find a job earning what I need to earn to make ends meet. I wish that I had decided to go the other route.

By Lynn

April 15, 2005 11:28 AM | Link to this

Also, I highly recommend that everyone take a look at Central Education Center in Coweta County. This is an outstanding program where some students graduate from high school one night and a two year college/technical program the next.

(http://www.gacec.com/index.htm)

By Sly

April 15, 2005 11:49 AM | Link to this

DeVry vs. Ga Tech? C’mon lady. 95% of the DeVry-ers couldn’t get accepted to Georgia Tech. But I agree that what you make of your higher education is everything. In this world your career and success are in your heart. If you really want to succeed you will. An auto mechanic that is motivated to help people with their car issues will greatly succeed. We should promote these views to kids in high school an let them know they can have a great future in whatever field they like, as long as they know they need to be real good at it. Most college students don’t really know what they want to do anyway. And college doesn’t automaically guarantee anything - unless you’re a teacher - then you get a guaranteed job you can’t get fired from.

By JR

April 15, 2005 12:28 PM | Link to this

As someone posted earlier, the school’s job is to make students productive citizens in the society. One caveat is the school make the student a productive citizen in his or her life interest and life aptitude! For a highschooler or college grad finding out what your good at and what you enjoy is the secret to a happy, full and productive life. All to often people get stuck in jobs that don’t match what they desire to do. This is a recipe for a mediocre worker trudging through life.

Parents have the responsibility to guide their son or duaghter towards those interest/aptitude goals. College degreee and money aside, this is what will bring true fulfillment for these students.

I think schools feel pressure (as society does) to push kids towards college because that has been held up as the standard for the diploma. True a college degree can open doors which might otherwise have been closed but there is no substitiute for someone’s ability combined with imagination and motivation!

By Another teacher

April 15, 2005 12:29 PM | Link to this

Sly - my first year teaching, two (not one but TWO) teachers were “asked to resign” because of subpar performance.

In the 4 years since then, I have seen at least one a year “invited to persue opportunities elsewhere.”

So much for a guarantee. Ask graduating teachers who are still looking for a job how much of a guarantee that degree is.

Please refrain from further maligning a profession that already fights a lot of degrading misperceptions. The majority of teachers I know are hard-working, intelligent individuals, who for some crazy reason, continue to work in a profession that gets very little respect from a lot of people. I’m not just talking about my colleagues - I’m also talking about the teachers my children (in 8th and 12th grade) have had.

By Claude M.

April 15, 2005 12:58 PM | Link to this

I agree with “highschool teacher” BUT! Many VO-TECH programs are being cut daily because a need for $$$ in a “Core” subject area. I think that only about 10% of the kids I see daily will pursue college and even less of those will “hack” it. People! kids need to learn something in school rather than how to take a test to make everyone feel better at the end of the year when national rankings and other statistics come out. Students will learn a skill like, “Ding” fries are ready! or by society pressing tags for the state! But they will be great test takers.
HERE IS A CONCEPT I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR IDEAS ON, “DOES EVERY KID NEED A PUBLIC EDUCATION”? what if a student was educated to a certain age then taught a skill? OH MY WORD! Chew on that one.

By Shauna

April 15, 2005 01:01 PM | Link to this

Sly,

I am from the North and we don’t take our colleges as seriously as Southern’s do. I’m not saying that DeVry is a better school or the GA Tech is a better school. All I’m saying is that the material from both schools is the same for the same degree.

Plus, DeVry offered an Accounting Degree. GA Tech didn’t. For the record, I could get into GA Tech if I wanted to. In high school I kept at least a 3.5 gpa and I made as 1420 on my SATs.

I chose to be an accountant, not a engineer.

By al

April 15, 2005 01:13 PM | Link to this

Why do we spend tax dollars on a system that is set up to fail most students? If 60% graduate from high school ( that failing in most grading systems) what is the other 40% doing?

Out of that 60% percent less than 20% graduate from undergrad programs after 5 years from their grad date. Why?

Other countries track their students into three areas: Higher education, Voc-Education and Armed Services. Student have these options.

We could do so much better with all the resources that this country have.

It start with the tax payers and elected officials.

Al Lewis Lutheran Services of Georgia Refugee Employment Services Program Manager 404-298-8817 ext16

By al

April 15, 2005 01:23 PM | Link to this

The issue here is money. The colleges need students in those seats for them to exist. The testing people need students to take SAT’s, ACT’s and ect to keep their doors open. NCAA need student in sports to keep viewers tune in and advertising dollars into bankrolling the billions of dollars they make.

You see it is not in the best interests of the school system to have students go to Voc-Ed class. The money train depends on the not-ready-for collage group.

By Swan

April 15, 2005 01:27 PM | Link to this

Lynn, I’ve read about Coweta’s program and it is indeed a good one. I wish they got more press because this is the kind of alternative we should be offering to kids. They’re coming out of that program ready to enter the workforce with very marketable skills.

I think a lot of kids are depressed when they consider taking four years of college when they could go possibly go to a two-year school and come out with some very marketable skills. Instead, they may feel that they’re not as valuable as a person if they’re not going for that four-year diploma.

Alas, money for funding CT programs is indeed being cut. The No Child Left Behind Act has us on a testing treadmill that gets ever tiring. I have to ask what good we are doing if we’re producing young people who may be great at passing a standardized test, but can’t even balance a checkbook or type their own research papers.

I hope nobody thinks I am anti-college because I’m not. I have two degrees myself. But I just think that there is a segment of young people who are being gravely underserved because a mindset exists that there is only one way to achieve a successful career.

By Brittney

April 15, 2005 01:31 PM | Link to this

I agree. College is not for everyone. When I was in high school(1999-2003) I was more worried about going to college just to cheer rather that I did not concentrate enough on my school studies while in high school. I did just enough to get me by those 4 years. I tried out my senior year for a college in Georgia and made it. I was elated. I had yet to receive my acceptance letter and was to show the proof to the coach a.s.a.p. I figured “ah.. I have good enough grades..I did my time…” boy did I get slapped in the face. I got rejected..had to quit the squad before I even enjoyed it… That was when I decided.. I guess college ism’t for me. My teachers and counselors at school did not help either. They sat me down and told me I did not have what it took to go to college I should think about going to tech school for something more “suitable”… At first I let all of this take me over. I started feeling down about myself and figuring “they must be right because they are at the schools to guide you and help you do your best..they must know what they are talking about” Yeah..well.. then something just came over me one day and I became determined to be college bound… that I was going to have a successful degree and a great education… I was not going to settle myself to something from tech school(although I do not think tech school is bad. there are great programs offered there…even associate degrees:) So, now I am currently in my second year in my degree program. My major?: Chemistry. In hopes of being a chemist for cosmetic industry. So I have set very high goals for myself and am determined to complete each one. Now my sister goes to my high school and I love going and rubbing it in those teachers face that had no faith in me!

Although I believe that college isn’t for everyone, I also believe that something in your life can happen and make you do a complete 360 and at that point you reevaluate your life and self and if you are determined enough you can make yourself successful in college! So to those kids who were just like me-you can change! But on the other hand-today there are so many people that do not have degrees that are highly paid and highly successful(as entrepreneurs and such)

By Gerald

April 15, 2005 02:12 PM | Link to this

Obtaining professional licenses and/or developing sales skills can be a clear path to a successful career and a six or even seven figure income. It’s about “quality of life”. I’m 46 now, and I earn more than most of my college graduate peers although I never got a degree! Some of them are still paying off their student loans! We should encourage young people to develope their skills and imagination and market them to the world. The world will pay!

By Faye

April 15, 2005 02:29 PM | Link to this

This is to Brittney - your story is exactly why we need to refocus the goals of public school education and refine the image of “alternative tracks.”

I mentioned in my earlier post that I had a college degree - what I didn’t mention was how I got it: After graduating with a college prep diploma, I went to college just like I was supposed to…and flunked out at the end of the semester. After working a year as a waitress, I joined the Armed Forces. It was only after I grew up a lot and got some discipline that I had what it took to finish my degree.

We are not all the same. We don’t learn the same; we don’t have the same interests; we don’t develop the same. Yet the majority of public school education forces people into a cookie cutter mold - it’s not their fault; it’s a daunting job that’s needs to be as expedient and efficient as possible for a large population.

It was Brittney’s experience and her description of how her teachers and counselors talked to her about a different path that prompted this post. Different shouldn’t be a negative, and she shouldn’t have been made to feel that way. We need to both offer more choice as well as be positive about all paths.

By lucian

April 15, 2005 02:48 PM | Link to this

Shauna you are an idiot. Curriculae do vary by university. DeVry does not teach what Tech teaches. Why would you think they are exactly the same? That’s painfully stooooopid.

By Swan

April 15, 2005 02:56 PM | Link to this

Faye, you make a good point. I admire your going into the Armed Forces. That is another career path that doesn’t get the attention should.

Enlistment in the Armed Forces is at a record low and with the Iraq war, that’s understandable. Most young people don’t want to go right into combat after basic training. But on the whole, serving in the Armed Forces can pay for a college degree and open up a wide variety of career choices.

High School JRTOC programs offer some wonderful opportunities to students to learn skills and self-discipline, regardless of whether or not they go on to be in the Armed Forces.

You’re absolutely right that different should not be negative or seen as less valuable. Our schools need to be talking to kids in middle school about pursuing their interests, be it becoming an astronaut or becoming a ballet dancer. The more opportunities we give them to explore, the greater the chances are that they will find a career they love, which is the ultimate goal.

By Miss Howard

April 15, 2005 03:16 PM | Link to this

Lucian you must go to tech :). At the end of the day the skills are the same. Whether you go to Devry or that glorified Technical School.

By T. Barrett

April 15, 2005 03:49 PM | Link to this

The myth is that the Georgia Institute of Technology is a technical school. It is a full university, a member of the so-called “Public Ivy League.” There are many other majors at Georgia Tech besides engineering. Only around 60% of the students at Georgia Tech major in engineering. It is the same at MIT (Massachussetts Institute of Technology). Did you know that MIT has one of the top Political Science and Economics programs in the country? Georgia Tech is well known for its programs in Psychology, International Affairs, Public Policy, and Business Management. Georgia Tech’s MBA program ranks much higher than UGA’s program!

By cp

April 15, 2005 03:59 PM | Link to this

Lucian is quite right: Shauna is an idiot. DeVry is a good school and turns out very good electronics technicians. I have recruited there. They do not teach engineering and do not pretend to. Comparing DeVry to GaTech is nonsensical — i.e. stoooopid. Kind of like saying a power drill is the same as a computer — they’re both tools.

A very good friend of mine teaches at at a Tech College. It is a very demanding program and produces well trained graduates. One of her biggest problems is students who can’t do basic math. Fractions. 2nd grade math — arithmatic!!! Students who think they can coast through high school and go the technical path will likely be in for a bit of a surprise.

By cp

April 15, 2005 04:10 PM | Link to this

One more thing, sorry for being off topic. Atlanta is very lucky to have a school of GaTech’s caliber and reputation. Students come from every corner of the globe to study here. You can tell someone in Paris or London that you graduated from GaTech and they will be impressed. Wayne Clough is a man of incredible intellect and integrity. The development going on around 5th and Spring street is a wonderful thing for the midtown area. Atlantans should be celebrating GaTech and claiming her as an asset — not trashing her at every opportunity. If you have not been to Tech or have a child there, you have no idea how hard these students work. Sleep is something you do in the summer.

By Shauna

April 15, 2005 04:16 PM | Link to this

I think that my comments have been misunderstood. And for someone to call me in idiot shows how sorry that they are as a person.

There are several reasons that I choose to attend DeVry. I never said that GA Tech wasn’t a good school. I said that it wasn’t for ME. I know several people that have gotten degrees from GA Tech and I only really like one of them. (Different story). I did not mean that the only thing they taught was engineering. I just know that is what many people equate GA Tech to. They have many different, wonderful majors there. They just weren’t for ME. I didn’t mean to get anyone defenses up.

Lucian, I know that different universities use different curriculae. They are just like public schools.

CP, to call me names proves nothing. Like I said, we don’t take our colleges up north as seriously as you do down here. All I was saying is that a BA is a BA.

Depending on what field of study you choose, employers want to know if you have secondary education. It doesn’t mean the earning potential is the same, it just means that, for your field of study, you have extra education.

Once again, let me say that I was not downing either of these schools. I think that they are both good schools. Once again, for what I wanted to do GA Tech, for many reasons was not the best match for me.

I don’t understand why the two of you are so upset about it. I don’t have to be called stupid because of it.

By Patti

April 15, 2005 04:20 PM | Link to this

Let’s get back on topic please…

What should a good vocational education program look like?

By Ernest

April 15, 2005 04:48 PM | Link to this

Patti:

Thanks for creating this thread! IMO, Kathy Cox along with local school superintendents should review this from time to time as there are a LOT of good ideas and insight provided by many of the participants.

Back to the topic, I believe implementing something like this could definitely address our high drop out rate and make our state more attractive for businesses. Someone earlier mentioned a ‘stigma’ associated with VoTech programs, moreso from years past. Perceptions like those are perhaps standing in the way from endorsing this. I plan to speak with my legislators to find out what we can do to influence the state to fund this. Maybe I’m being naiive but I think we can get a tremendous return on investment by running parallel tracks of College Prep and VoTech.

By Swan

April 15, 2005 04:52 PM | Link to this

I’ll try to address that one if I can, but I’m not an expert on this at all.

A good vocational education program is one that had teachers that are no only skilled in their specific area but have teaching experience. One problem that has been surfacing lately is that many new CT teachers have very little training in dealing with classroom management. They’re good at what they do in the work world but can’t teach very well.

Another sign of a good vocational education program is where the instructors are cerified or licensed in their field. For food service, that may be ServSafe. For auto mechanics, that could be ASE. This means the program area being taught has a curriculum that prepares students for the real work world. If a school’s vocational educational program is not licensed or certified, they need to be working toward it.

A good program has up-to-date equipment and computer programs/software. The students are trained in using safety measures and know how to use them properly to avoid injury.

One thing that might surprise you is that a good CT program is one tied in with the academic program. That means vocational teachers and academic teachers are working together on assignments so that curriculum integration is taking place. When this happens, students start to see that vocational classes are just as valuable as academic ones are. This may mean having a mathematics class take on a project of selling the plants being raised in the greenhouse, managing the business. This is good for all students, since they’re learning hands on.

Another sign is that the vocational programs being offered are ones that students want to take because the school did their homework on finding out what studens want to learn about and do. Not classes the school thinks they might take.

One final sign of a good vocational education program is that if a student wants to study a field that isn’t covered at the high school, they can go to a nearby technical school to take classes and possibly credits for them. Students can take advantage of the faculty and equipment their own school lacks.

By T. R.

April 15, 2005 05:01 PM | Link to this

An oft-overlooked feature of vocational education is that it can complement, and sometimes facilitate the college years.

I had a very savvy classmate of mine who opted for cosmetology in HS, knowing that she’d have to pay her way through college.

Upon HS graduation she went out into the world with skills enough to pay for her college and basic living expenses, with flexible hours to boot.

She got a bachelor’s in a business major, and that coupled with 5 years of on-the-job training she was eventually able to open up her own salon.

My point is just that if they aren’t ready for college (or don’t think they are) then support vocational education as a viable choice - you never know where it will lead.

By C.R.H.

April 15, 2005 05:04 PM | Link to this

Brittany…sorry you felt bad about yourself, I don’t think that was the teacher’s or counselor’s fault. Maybe it was because you believed you were ENTITLED to something (college entrance) when you are really not entitled to get anything! Your lack of effort, which you proclaimed in your blog, shows why you didn’t quite cut the mustard. I congratulate you on your new found academic success! I, as a teacher, encourage many of my students to look at alternatives to college…if it isn’t something they don’t have the interest in or the ABILITY (read that as WORK ETHIC) to hack it. I was also in the military, it paid for a bit of the 2 college degrees I earned. There is no shame in going to vo-tech schools or programs or the military. I would like my students to be able to do something rather than hang around complaining how the “world did me wrong!”

By Faye

April 15, 2005 05:06 PM | Link to this

I grew up in Massachusetts. We had a Technical High School (Shawsheen Tech) that served the 5 surrounding towns. You took the Diffential Aptitude Test in 8th grade and went through an application/selection process to enroll. I believe it offered auto mechanics, graphic design, electrical, plumbing, construction, and cosmetology. You had core academic classes and then specialized in a vocational area. Most seniors did work study.

I have several friends and family members graduate from there - they have terrific careers (many of them making more than I do with my college degree - with no students loans either!). I often regret not going there myself. They had the opportunity to get for free the education a lot of people have to pay for now.

This is the school’s website:

http://www.shawsheen.tec.ma.us/#1

Another groundbreaking school is Brown Barge Middle School in Florida. They teach in “streams” which contain a lot of real-world application of the knowledge gained.

Their website:

http://www.escambia.k12.fl.us/schscnts/brobm/home_about.html

I think the programs need to be academically rigorous, with real world application. Basic skills in reading, writing, math, and computers are a must. On the job training/shadowing/apprenticeship is a important factor. Someone suggested businesses mentoring and/or allowing students to shadow. I think some of this can be started as early as middle school. We’re already testing - how about finding out what kids are naturally good at? I think those tests have a bad rap from experiences like Brittney’s but when I went back to school, my college gave us the opportunity to take a battery of tests to help me find the major that was right for me - kind of a “What Color Is Your Parachute” sort of test.

Other countries educate their students this way - and they still seem to beat us on math and science tests!

By Brittney

April 18, 2005 10:10 AM | Link to this

TO C.R.H.= I never said the world did me wrong. I never said I was ENTITLED to something. I SAID I did what every teenager does-gets in the attitude that “nothing bad can ever happen to me” and since I made cheerleading then I instantly was granted acceptance into the college. I am glad I got that slap in the face. It has opened alot of doors for me. I had to go to a tech school in order to straighten out my grades. Tech/vocational school is great for those who decide to go in that direction. With you not being there as my counselors talked to me about college, you do not know how they stated it and how rudely it was stated. They even spoke with my mother and told her “college may not be for Brittney, maybe you should tell her because she is not listening to me” My mom is not one to care about education as others but after that she rode my butt all through tech school and she made sure that if college is what I wanted then I was going to work my butt off. Now that I am in college and going for something no one expected, yes, I went to that school on the night of my sisters game and went straight to those teachers and told them what I was making of myself. They apologized for not having faith in me. I told them because they needed to know that kids can turn their lives around and that, though, their negativity only fuiled my desire to be better that some kids will not have those feelings. That other kids may give up and not try to be their best.

I think that Tech/Voc. school is great-the armed services a great-and college is great. I think in high school they do not need to say “college,college,college” At my school they made tech school seem so unsatisfactory that we all were too ashamed to say we were going to tech school instead of college for whatever reason. Yes, the teachers have alot to do with it. They need to teach the kids differentiation within their lives and that their choice will be fine.

This was not excuse for my “laziness” or “thought of being invincible” this is how it happened and the positive attributes that came from it. If C.R.H. wants to pass judgement then fine..you are like every other teacher… I learned from my mistakes and am on my way to being very successful..more kids need to have lessons on how to be successful no matter what path they choose to take. Anyone can be successful as long as they put their mind to it and no one-not even teachers-have the right to say which path is better. I learned from my experiences and will only benefit from them.

By jimmy

April 18, 2005 10:57 AM | Link to this

I train new vocational or career and technical education teachers. While I support college for any student with a desire, college is NOT the route to a better job, particularly if better is defined as higher paying. 80% of all jobs in the U.S. require a specific set of technical skills. A number of these technical field require a college degree. These include most medical professions. Other “technical jobs” require skills that can be acquired by completing a 2 year degree at a technical or community college. For me, the question should not be, “is this student college material?” Rather students should be encouraged to explore a wide range of careers, and select a career that provides a satisfying job, and an acceptable salary. Many of these jobs will require less than a four year college degree. I hold three college degrees, including a doctoral degree. I also built my own house, and routinely build furniture. This is because in high school my most enjoyable, yet most challenging subject was Industrial Arts.

Our nation needs workers with technical skills. Our current political leaders do not seem to realize this. Funding is being cut and all emphasis is on “preparing students for college.” The media and public opinion seem to demand all high school students plan on a college career. If a student desires additional education, attend college. If high school students desire a rewarding and high paying career, they will be better served to explore vocational areas and build technical skills.

By MD

April 18, 2005 11:06 AM | Link to this

Since when was the sole motive of education to get a job that’s as high paying as possible? Yes, some students won’t be able to go to college, and, yes, high schools need to have some vocational programs. But there are benefits to going to college that go beyond a degree.

By Nina

April 18, 2005 11:38 AM | Link to this

I wish that more adminstrators and county personnel would realize the importance of Tech/Career classes. As you say, a lot of students will not and can not make the college plan. There are a lot of good technical schools around the metro area, for students to coninue going to, after high school. At my school we do have the career tech classes, but some are not seen as a way to train kids, but a place to dump kids that cant make it in other classes.

By Swan

April 18, 2005 02:16 PM | Link to this

Jimmy, thanks for adding your comments. I think you’re right on the money. We’re limiting our young people when we tell them that college is the only path that they should take. That’s why career education is so important and that it happens early, not in the senior year but in the middle grades.

By Lesli

April 18, 2005 05:14 PM | Link to this

I would like to address my comments to T.R. I am the parent of teenagers, ages 16 and 18. My oldest child has known for several years exactly what his post-HS plans entail. The younger child still has no clue. Often, it is the best path for the child to follow to learn viable job skills and wait to attend college until he or she is ready to attend. The issue many times is that the child is not IMMEDIATELY ready for college. T.R., I appreciate your sharing your story because many time someone’s future involves more than just “College now or never”.

By Lisa Gray

April 19, 2005 08:32 AM | Link to this

Schools should first find out what students are interested in before steering them toward a particular program. If students don’t know what they want to do, there are many assessments that can help them find out where their skills and interests lie.

The Georgia Career Interest Survey is an excellent tool for determining interest in a vocation (http://www.gcic.peachnet.edu). It requires schools to be registered so its students can use it. However, I think it is mostly vocational teachers who have this information and use it, so the majority of students never have the opportunity to take this survey.

Not all students want to go to college and not all students have the skills, drive, or ability to go to college. Why give them false hope or force them along a path they wouldn’t choose if given the choice? High school students, even many middle school students, are quite capable of making these kinds of choices.

By Georgie Chester

April 19, 2005 11:39 AM | Link to this

Yes, indeed I support the Tech/Career Classes. Especially if you need to help support your way through College. I am from a small town in Southeast Georgia. When I finished high school it was a requirement. By the way most of the Black schools in the south had the title Training or Tech inbedded in the school name. I was able get a job typing, answering the telephone for a doctor that did research at Grady Hospital. This enable me to complete Georgia State without a large student loan. Thanks for the great minds of our counselors and mentoring that enforce our Technical Training. Naming the schools Training was not accepted very well at the time, however because of the ERA of times we took the “lemon (School Name) and made Lemonale.”
Please let us prepare our young folks for tomorrow.