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DEL.ICIO.USA Bad Teacher is a Bad Teacher. Period.
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Someone said it on the record: “If there’s a teacher who can’t teach over here, they can’t teach over there. We won’t move teachers around who aren’t qualified.”
The someone who said it was DeKalb County Superintendent Crawford Lewis. He made the comment at a recent school board meeting during a discussion of a new middle school program the district was adopting. Lewis said the district would invest in training teachers who are struggling.
It’s easy to see why this is a big problem. We’ve established that teaching in today’s climate is very hard, requiring intelligence, good judgment and a variety of skills. Teachers who aren’t very good get criticized at schools with a lot of parent involvement, and then they get shuffled to schools where the parents are less active. Am I right? And it’s notoriously hard to fire a teacher.
So do you think Lewis can be true to his word?
There are several timely education stories in the paper today. First, the state board rejected a rule that would require parents to sign off on their child’s participation in clubs, a proposal that seemed a reaction to controversy over gay clubs.
Also, the Cobb school board approved in a split vote the first phase of a gargantuan laptop computer program.
Comments
Commenting is now closed for this entry.
By b. white
April 14, 2005 10:41 AM | Link to this
What is the new middle school program they are thinking of starting? Would like to know!
By Jennifer
April 14, 2005 10:52 AM | Link to this
Personally, I think schools need to worry more about if students have enough text books to go around versus laptops for each student. It’s amazing that I survived school having to share computers with other students.
Plus, and I know this will probably get a lot of negative responses, I believe if they are going to equip the students with laptops they should at least give them pc’s and not macs. The majority of the working world uses pc’s, and, therefore, the children would be knowlegable of the technology.
By Patti
April 14, 2005 10:54 AM | Link to this
The middle school program is called SpringBoard, and I am working on a story about it. DeKalb school officials visited Broward County, which has the program in place, though it’s relatively new. Administrators were fired up about it, because they think it will address kids who are bright, kids who are barely reading and everyone in between.
Details to come!
Patti
By David
April 14, 2005 11:01 AM | Link to this
I think the superintendent is right and wrong…i know for a fact that bad teachers will have more complaints if they teach in schools with alot of parent involvement…and many are actually moved…i know someone right now who was moved from Quest to Title..for that reason….BUT..i think we as teachers have our strengths and weaknesses…for example…i know i am a better teacher when i am teaching OLDER kids (high school) rather than middle schoolers…also, i prefer to teach children who WANT TO LEARN and who for the most part have strong parents….i will not be as good a teacher if i am teaching kids who have no parenting at home…my point is…some teachers probably COULD BE MOVED to a different environment and become BETTER teachers…
By Lucia
April 14, 2005 11:06 AM | Link to this
“Springboard” seems like yet another attempt to dismantle the phenomenally successful Dekalb magnet programs for gifted students (Brown’s Mill, Kittredge). Why the county persists in attacking its best and brightest students is incomprensible. Get this Crawford Lewis: some kids are smarter than others. They need the challenge of magnet schools.
By Swan
April 14, 2005 11:17 AM | Link to this
I see more of a problem with moving around bad administrators than bad teachers, frankly. I have friends who have taught in schools where the principal was the pits. Instead of getting rid of the bad principal, they just moved him/her to another school to take the problems elsewhere.
I wish DeKalb much luck with their new middle grades program. I’m in the education field and this is one of the hottest topics. Many middle graders are in no way prepared for high school. As a result, many of them fail the freshman year. Statistics are pretty clear that if a student fails freshman year, their chances of graduating are not good.
I hope SpringBoard works for them and isn’t just the latest “hot” program that’s all flash and no results.
By Ernest
April 14, 2005 11:19 AM | Link to this
I agree with David’s point. At the same time, I would ask, how do you define a bad teacher. I would evaluate the effort rather than simply the outcome. I’ve witnessed teachers who truly give their all yet because there may not be reinforcement at home, it is all for naught. I remember seeing some teachers cry after receiving the ITBS and CRT scores for their classes because they felt it did not reflect the instructional effort given during the school year.
By the same token, I’ve seen some teachers ‘skate’ because they may have bright children with actively involved parents. When the high test scores came back, they wanted to take more credit than they deserved.
Give me a teacher that has high expectations, that communicates frequently, along with a ‘bag of tricks’ of instructional delivery strategies and I’m a happy camper. As David indicated above, sometimes a change of environment can result in a teacher that is percieved as being bad turning out to be a good teacher. Teaching at a ‘high achieving school’ does not make a good teacher. Teaching at a struggling school does not make one a bad teacher.
By Patti
April 14, 2005 11:21 AM | Link to this
Maybe SpringBoard should have been the focus of my blog post today…
SpringBoard will be used at 13 Title 1 middle schools and is paid for with Title 1 funds, federal money aimed at schools serving large numbers of children from poor families.
I know of no connection between SpringBoard and magnet programs for high achievers.
Patti
By Jennifer
April 14, 2005 11:32 AM | Link to this
Ok, as a former struggling teacher, I’m all for any training and additional attempts to assist them!
Here’s my reality: I went through teacher training, read my books on classroom management, and realized that I was a “rules and consequences” teacher. Then, I got a job as a teacher and found out that I have few consequences that I can impose, and certainly no low-level consequences like lunch or after-school detention. Since I was told that class disruption needs to be dealt with in the class and not the office, I was at a loss. I floundered. I survived my first year, but only because I had tons of support. However, even with that support, I never had the mentoring that I needed to learn how to effectively manage a classroom. I could plan, instruct, and grade fine, but when it came to maintaining order, that’s where I failed as a teacher. I sent letters home to the parents inviting them to the class and asked the administrators to make random visits to the class to have their presence keep things somewhat manageable. It’s amazing what having an extra set of eyes and an extra adult will do in a room full of seventh graders.
I tried high school when I came down here thinking that may be a better fit for me, but I was wrong. If I were to teach, I’m best suited for 7th grade; however, I’ve permanently closed that door because I know I do not have the classroom management skills needed to be successful.
What I’d love to see happen is to change the teacher education model. I’d like to have been able to shadow/student teach for a much longer period of time. I only had 10 weeks of in-class time, and a week of that was lost to observation. Because it was a 4x4 block, the teacher wouldn’t let me take over that much of the class, so I was actually bounced between 4 teachers or so. There was no continuity. I only taught each group of kids during the honeymoon phase—I never had a teacher to work with who could actually teach me the fine points of classroom management.
Based on my own experience and those of others I know, it seems like the reason most new teachers fail/leave the profession is due to poor classroom management skills. I’m all for schools doing anything they can do to effectively train people in that area.
I know I can teach, but I’m not willing to do any job where just trying to do my job is such a fight. This sink or swim attitude that most systems have contributes to so many teachers sinking & leaving the profession in the first few years.
By David D.
April 14, 2005 11:52 AM | Link to this
Jennifer, “I feel your pain.”
I’ve been teaching for 12 years. My first year was the worst year of my life. Part of the problem is with the schools of education. Most of the faculties have never taught in a “real” classroom. At UGA, my department has only one tenured professor who has taught in the public schools above 5th grade, and he taught in the Research Triangle in Durham, NC. Boy that must have been tough teaching kids of middle and top management of scientific companies. I’m surprised he lasted 3 years. The professors think a stern glance can straighten a kid up. Basically we train new teachers under fire. If they can survive the first 4 years, they generally make it. The problem is we lose people like you.
I also agree there is also a big problem with administrators. Generally coaches are promoted to administrators because they handle lots of high-energy boys on the athletic fields who tend to get in trouble in the classrooms. The higher-level administrators think that because they handle these troublesome kids on a football field, they’ll do well as administrators. These higher administrators forget that these kids WANT to do well on the athletic field; they don’t give a flip about in the classroom. That means we have incompetent people in charge now. And we act surprised about the result? Administrators need to come from the academic faculties – not the athletic faculties.
By Monique
April 14, 2005 11:59 AM | Link to this
Wow, Jennifer. I can relate to most of what you said. I am a teacher by choice. I served as a substitute teacher before I actually decided to teach as a career. I did my own hands on research on what goes on in the classroom. Yes, there is teaching and some learning, but the most important aspect of the classroom is management. You have to be able to set guidleines and mean it!! You have to stick by those guidleines if it kills you. Children need rules. The world is made of rules that we have to follow or suffer the consequences. I express that to my students in the beginning and have to remind them daily. I teach on a high school level in a Title I school where the parental support in low to none. I may not know what to expect from my parents, but parents and students know what to expect from me. My standards are set high and I don’t change them just b/c of where I am and who I teach. I have friends that taught for one year (and sometimes not even the whole year) and quit because they could not manage the classroom. Everyone always has something to say (negativley) about teachers. The truth is the occupation is not for everyone. What looks good on the outside, is some times terrible on the inside. I am sorry that you were not as prepared as you would have liked to have been, but if it is your calling, don’t give up. Do some research on how you can become better. Talk with veteran teachers, find a message board and share techniques.
By JB
April 14, 2005 12:04 PM | Link to this
Strange, very strange. Using generalities to address a specific issue worries me. There are teacher’s who can fail at one location and be terrific at another. We are not machines! Just as environment effects the child it also effects the teacher; be it an issue with the faculty, teachers, or parents. Some districts offer transfers, which is good, unless the principal has the right to hold a teacher; which can be a real negative if the reason for leaving is poor administrators.
As for moving teachers who have parents calling the school board against them, well, count me in this group, many times over! I was never moved, however I transfered a few times. Cautioned by administrators, who had heard from the “home office,” to ease my expectations, I listened but NEVER lowered my expectations! History taught me these parents would come around when they saw the results of their students work. Once, the one parent who had called three or four times in 3 months openly expressed her support of my work at our curriculum night. School board never knew, but the calls stopped so they were happy. All is well. Nope. The principal is still remembering the stress caused by the teacher, who, for what ever reason, caused another spark the school board had to hear about. The system is set up as a numbers issue, it should be a human issue. Remember, there are such creatures as “Springer Parents.”
But there are some very poor teachers among us! As there are some very bad parents too! It’s the same as any profession. Some landscapers are better than others, as are CEO’s for that matter, why would teaching be any different? Mr. Lewis has it right, it is very difficult to fire a teacher, almost impossible. Applause, if you are stuck with them, might as well teachem’ skills that improve results. If they fail, there are grounds for termination. Will he follow through? BIG QUESTION?
Once teachers are aware the system can expect greater results ,and, has the policies to re-train and/or dismiss teachers, the quality of teaching will greatly improve. Most good teachers are eager for ways of removing the poor teachers whom they are forced to accommodate as well.
Mrs. Jones has problems with classroom management. It has spread into the halls, where other classes are disrupted by the noise from all of Mrs. Jones class (not the lone challenging student) going to P.E.. After additional training in classroom management, if the issue is still there, good-bye Mrs. Jones, you are causing a negative effect on the learning environment.
Mr. Green’s class is scoring below the school’s average in math. He receives instruction from teachers who are getting better results and adopts the new methods. His student’s math scores go up, I think we’ll keep him.
In the real world if something shows better results it is spread throughout the company. This is not the case in public schools. Goodness no! Having all those parents call the school board about the “changes” being directed from the “school board.” NEVER! The system is not set up for change. Keep them quiet, you keep them happy.
By the way, the re-training and follow through goes for administrators too, as they are easily transfered but never fired either - but that’s not the soap box I’m standing on today.
JB
By Ernest
April 14, 2005 12:31 PM | Link to this
Patti:
I know this isn’t the Springboard blog but the following statement intrigued me, SpringBoard was created using the College Board Standards for College Successâ„¢, which define the knowledge and skills that all students should master in order to be ready for college-level work. While this is great, I wonder what will be planned for those we know are not going to college. I spoke with Rep. Fran Millar recently andn we discussed the need for a stronger VoTech track to parallel a College Prep track. Something like this will probably address the high drop out rate more.
By Faye
April 14, 2005 12:37 PM | Link to this
To Jennifer - while it’s true that the majority of the world seems to use PCs instead of Mac’s, it is also true that for most people the OS platform isn’t what’s important, but the software is. The Cobb laptops, while Macs, will be programmed with the (mainly) Microsoft software used in the business world - MS Word, Excel, PowerPoint, etc. Furthermore, there is far less malicious code (viruses) written for Macs versus Microsoft - saving valuable lost computer time.
As a Cobb parent and taxpayer, I have mixed feelings about the laptops. I do think the phased-in implementation is the right way to handle it - problems can be identified, and the value of the program can be evaluated prior to implementing the program for everyone.
By Patti
April 14, 2005 12:44 PM | Link to this
Ernest, you are welcome to post about SpringBoard! I hear you that it’s very much college prep. I have a call out to the almighty College Board and will get more details. The agenda item says the purpose of the program is to make sure all middle schools make Adequate Yearly Progress as required by the federal No Child Left Behind law.
Patti
By Robert
April 14, 2005 12:46 PM | Link to this
Lewis’ remarks were most likely meant as a news sound bite….
However, I can see how a teacher would be “better” at one school compared to another. If a teacher knows the content and pedagogy but needs a strong administration to help with poor discipline of the students then I see no reason why not transfer that teacher to a stronger administration.
The key here, as someone has already mentioned, is to define a “bad” teacher.
By the way, I feel that from the teacher’s side, the biggest problem in the State of GA is a lack of any union. PAGE readily admits that it is not a union. A union would work to improve the work environment for the teachers and also ensure that the teachers are truly qualified.
By Mary
April 14, 2005 01:03 PM | Link to this
I’m not a teacher but I am a parent of a school age child who happens to attend a DeKalb County school. After reading all of your comments I have to say how fortunate I feel to have my son in the school he’s in. He’s teachers have all been supportive, bright, caring and most of all dedicated to expanding children’s horizons. The administrators, janitors, coaches and other teachers all speak when you come into the school and everyone seems to know and care about each other. There is a school wide standard of conduct with consequences that are enforced and followed. These are explained to us (parents and students) every year several times a year. While the teachers at my son’s school are superb I know that a lot of the environment that we so enjoy can be traced back to the principal and other administrators at our school. Without support from administration I’m sure it is hard for even the most dedicated teacher to be productive and flourish. The biggest complaint I have about the school board is them offering good administrators a bigger retirement package to retire early so they can put a new person in the school that does not make as much money. While I can appreciate budget restrictions and cost cutting efforts I do not think that offering good older teachers and administrators that are years from retirement and proving to be very productive is the way to go. All in all I am extremely happy with the school my son attends, as a parent, the door is always open for me to come have lunch, help in class and discuss concerns or issues with his teachers and I am extremely thankful to them as well as the administration.
By Jennifer
April 14, 2005 01:03 PM | Link to this
I would assume there will be anti-virus software on the computers anyway. I also assume the school will not give permissions so students can download files.
By JB
April 14, 2005 01:09 PM | Link to this
Bad teachers, or individuals with poor skills, reflected in poor student performance. If this is a “bad teacher” so be it. I suspect we would do better addressing the skills not the profession. Who will confront the poor skills, retrain, re-assess, and make changes if needed? The administration, who, four years from retirement is not about to rock the boat? They may need skill deveopment in another area, who will oversee this? Finding poor teaching skills is not very hard, addressing them is a foreign concept, but one we need to learn, soon!
By Swan
April 14, 2005 01:15 PM | Link to this
Ernest, you bring up a subject that’s not about today’s topic but something I’d like to address. You mentioned your concern about the Vo-Tech (or career/technical (CT), the current buzzword being used) route being made stronger. I share your concern.
Today’s young people, more than ever in our nation’s history, are being urged to attend college. I’m a big supporter of that! However, we can’t ignore Vo-Tech. Some kids simply have no interest (or aptitude) in pursuing a four-year liberal arts degree. They’re good at tearing apart a car or fixing a refrigerator. Or landscaping. These skills can translate into successful, high-paying jobs. They also require some complex math skills, in some cases.
The problem is that in the rush to send kids the traditional college route, a student that might best be served pursuing an ASE (auto mechanics) certificate or getting an apprenticeship in HVAC is being told he has to go to a four-year college to succeed.
There are some fantastic career/technical centers in the Northeast that cater to students with these aptitudes. They’re going on to get good jobs and doing what they love. But even these schools are under threat from the general push for sending kids to traditional colleges.
I hope more high schools will partner with their local tech. schools to provide dual credit programs for these students who want to take a different career path that may not include a four-year liberal arts college.
By Tiffany
April 14, 2005 01:56 PM | Link to this
I have to comment on this as an adult, mother and former student in an uncontrolled class.I had a bad teacher and I classify a bad teacher as 1 that doesn’t have control of his/her classroom.Even as an 8th grader I felt she was a bad teacher.She was a really sweet teacher that wanted to teach but the children in her class wouldn’t allow this.She was tormented and I really felt bad for her and now that I have school aged kids I know that everyone is not cut out to be a teacher.Up until 8th grade I wanted to teach but that year showed me that career would not be for me.Between the students and the parents and the rotten kids, it really takes special people to teach/manage/control a classroom of 30+ kids. My hat goes off to all of you that hold down that profession, you are a special group of people.
By Ernest
April 14, 2005 02:20 PM | Link to this
Swan:
Glad you picked up on that! The largest expense most organizations have is with labor costs. We’ve seen the trends of manual labor jobs (i.e. automobile, fabric mills, etc.) move offshore. We then saw many white collar jobs (i.e. IT, call centers, etc.) move offshore for the same reasons. There was public outcry but what we are seeing now are organizations bringing skilled workers to this country. Why are they doing this, partly because they do not believe our education system is producing the types of workers needed for the 21st century.
I’m not willing to say that Vo-Tech (I’m dating myself using this term) is the ‘silver bullet’ but we must acknowledge that college is not for everyone.
FWIW, in DeKalb, our newest high school, Miller Grove, is scheduled to form a partnership with the new hospital, located next door.
As I understand, a ‘Allied Health’ track may be offered for some of the students. While all High Schools may not be in close proximity to a hospital or auto plant, this does provide hope since this field will be booming in the next few years.
By LISA
April 14, 2005 02:25 PM | Link to this
I KNOW IN APS SCHOOL THEY ARE KNOWN FOR KEEPING BAD TEACHER AS WELL AS PRINCIPAL!!! THEY WILL MAKE A GYM COACH A PRINCIPAL AND STICK THEM AT A LOW PERFORMING SCHOOL!! THIS TYPE OF MESS HAVE BEEN GOING ON LIKE FOREVER!!! IT’S CALL THE BUDDY SYSTEM.THE BUDDY SYSTEM IS ABOUT HELPING YOU FATERNITY BROTHER OR SISTER IT’S ABOUT BUSINESS NOT ABOUT THE KIDS!!! ATLANTA PUBLIC SCHOOL HAVE ALWAYS OPERATED LIKE THIS!!! AND GUESS WHO SUFFER!!! THE KIDS.ESPECIALLY THE KIDS IN THE METRO AREA!! IT BRING TEARS TO YOUR EYES WHEN YOU THIS MESS GOING ON.I KNOW IT HAPPEN AND I KNOW THE BUDDY SYSTEM DOES NOT DISCRIMINATE BASE UPON LACK OF QUALIFICATION, LEADERSHIP,PASSION FOR TEACHING.IT WILL HIRE YOU IF YOUR A DELTA, ALPHA, QDOG,OR OMEGA PHI.SEE YOUR LOCAL PRINCIAPL WHO START OFF AS A COACH AND A NAME AND YOU GOT A CAREER.
By David
April 14, 2005 02:36 PM | Link to this
excuse me but my dad started off as a math/biology teacher and also a football and girls basketball coach….then he became an administrator….principal and asst. principal…he retired with 35 years as the athletic director who also handled the bulk of the discipline at a school with 2300 students…now he is back doing 1/2 day ISS and defensive end coach at the same high school…the local town newspaper wrote an article last fall about his contributions to education in this county and the respect the students and student athletes have for him, he was chosen as the grand marshall in the special olympics parade 2 weeks ago….to those of you who equate former coaches with incompetent principals you need to rethink your comments….incompetency has to do with how one is raised…not the profession one chooses…
By Swan
April 14, 2005 03:14 PM | Link to this
Ernest, it’s me again. You can use the term Vo-Tech. all you like! Many of the folks I work with are Vo-Tech veterans so it is still used a lot. My mother was a secretary in my high school’s Vo Tech. department so you can see why this is a special subject for me.
You’re right about allied health being one of the top growing programs that some schools are starting, many with much success. Since our population is living longer, the demand for these services is only going to increase. I hope more schools do what you’ve mentioned, as Miller Grove has.
It’s definitely true that American businesses are moving more and more of their work to out of the country cheap labor. If you saw the recent documentary on PBS about Wal-Mart, it detailed the closing of a Firestone plant that many of the locals had worked in for years. One of the workers ended up going into a nursing program and is doing quite well. But many folks don’t have the money to get this training. Our students today cannot count on the local factory to employ them.
The fact is that some skilled jobs are quite lucrative. My cousin struggled in school and didn’t go to college. But he did learn how to be a plumber and he’s now making more money than all of us. He’s also doing what he loves. Electricians also do pretty well. But these aren’t the jobs we’re steering kids to.
Many schools with Vo Tech. classes are living in the dark ages of “shop class” and have kids still making bird houses. Their equipment is out of date and the kids aren’t learning anything they can relate to real life. Often the kids get stigmatized for being in these classes because it’s not the academic track.
The schools with good programs have their students in internships with local businesss and getting guidance on what training to pursue. The programs are professionally licensed and the kids know the safety rules.
I’d better stop before I really get going. Thanks for letting me ramble, Ernest.
By Lynn
April 14, 2005 04:13 PM | Link to this
Earnest and Swan are right on the money. If we want to improve the graduation rate in Georgia, we need to give students alternatives. My husband’s business employees many young people that just have high school degrees when they start. (He encourages them to continue their education and most do as they age, on a part time basis.)
But some people aren’t going to be CPAs, doctors or lawyers.
Our houses need to be built, our pipes fixed, our cars repaired, and our streets paved. These are all skilled jobs — someone needs to be able to do them.
What we are heading towards soon, is a society with way too many professionals and not enough skilled labor.
By Lynn
April 14, 2005 04:18 PM | Link to this
Also, about the original post. As a parent at a very diverse DeKalb County school, not every teacher can teach at every school. We have seen teachers that have been fine (according to parents) at less diverse schools, fall apart at ours.
Also, Dr. Lewis is now in charge and we hope change is coming. But what DeKalb needs to stop is the retention of crummy administrators both in the school and at the county office leve.
By Ernest
April 14, 2005 04:41 PM | Link to this
Patti:
Consider the discussion regarding Vo-Tech as an alternative offering for a blog topic. Between myself, Swan, and Lynn, you’ve got a good start with the discussion. I understand DeKalb MAY consider this as a type of Magnet program.
By Ernest
April 14, 2005 04:48 PM | Link to this
Amen to Lynn on her last sentence. As with all professions, there are ‘bad’ apples as administrators in many school systems also. Not everyone is cut out to be an administrator. What really gets me is when they ‘promote’ these individuals to central office positions instead of addressing the problem. Being was a good teacher doesn’t necessarily mean they will be a good administrator. As I understand, this happens at many school systems around the county. Sometimes they need to be sent back to the classroom with a salary reduction.
By Melissa B
April 14, 2005 05:03 PM | Link to this
Too bad that companies don’t “adopt” students. Even small businesses can have a range of jobs that could show a kid what is actually involved in running a business from day to day. I realize this is very close to sounding like an apprenticeship program; this wouldn’t necessarily involve actual paid work — it could be more of a long-term shadow program.
I’d be interested to see how local business involvement in nearby schools might help uplift what students define as their future. Many kids, especially those in at-risk schools or from lower socio-economic sectors of the state, just don’t know what kind of jobs are out there — there’s no target for them to aim at.
Hope I haven’t deviated too far from the topic….
By Swan
April 14, 2005 05:07 PM | Link to this
Ernest, thanks for suggesting that this be a blog topic. I feel bad enough for taking over this one! I can’t shut up.
Lynn, I appreciated your comments. Even if a young person doesn’t ultimately choose to pursue the field he has an internship/part-time job in, the experience of being at a job site is invaluable. It teaches how to manage time, respect others and handle different situations. Kudos to your husband for hiring young people to give them some real-world experience.
By Tom McFarland
April 15, 2005 09:45 AM | Link to this
Has the Cobb system considered the Dana by AlphaSmart (www.alphasmart.com)? It is a Palm OS device that is rugged, low cost, available in a wireless version, and able to do all that today’s students need to do by way of word processing, running special programs, including displaying electronic textbooks in PDF form, etc. It has a full sized keyboard and is used by some writers who don’t want the distractions and cost of a full featured laptop computer.