Get Schooled

By Kellie

April 13, 2005 10:39 AM | Link to this

I think it is a great idea. Maybe this will prevent the kid from going into a life of crime. These things usually start early in life and if more people tried to intervene, maybe we would have less criminals. Of course each should be based on a case by case basis. They need to find out his family background and maybe if there is something wrong with him. Maybe his parents are teaching him right from wrong. He may be learning from their example.

Thanks, Kellie

By Ann

April 13, 2005 10:39 AM | Link to this

It may be a bit excessive, but if it works, it’s worth it. I don’t think that the child will be traumatized, just a little scared, and a little fear may be what the child needs. Clearly, the parent does not care that the child is disruptive and unruly. It seems that if there is no support from home, the school must do what is necessary to manage on their own.

By ed

April 13, 2005 10:57 AM | Link to this

Very appropriate discipline. The mother should teach her child to not steal. A little trauma can go a long way in the learning process. As a citizen of Rockdale County I am glad to see that the principle backed the teacher. Too many parents fail to discipline their children while at the same time expecting educators to handle their unruly child with kid gloves.

By Lisa

April 13, 2005 11:01 AM | Link to this

I believe it was the proper action for the teacher to take. If it had been the first time that the child had done something wrong, then it would have been excessive, but given that this was an on-going problem and the parent obviously wasn’t trying to help the situtation, it was the proper thing to do.

The concern shouldn’t be if the child was humilated or just scared, the concern should be what is going on in this kid’s life that he is stealing at such a young age. Most likely there is something negative going on in his home life that needs to be addressed. Since the parent isn’t taking responsibility for their child, the teacher needs to do whatever he/she thinks is necessary to save this child.

By CD

April 13, 2005 11:10 AM | Link to this

Appropriate tactic. This story explains today’s problems in one, neat package. This parent cares more about protecting her little “angel” (pronounced “t-h-u-g”)than teaching her child right from wrong.

Congratulations, lady. You get an “F” in parenting.

By al berry

April 13, 2005 11:17 AM | Link to this

Wake up America. Famalies are not teaching their children right from wrong. When I went to school if you got out of line you went to the hall way for a board on the tale. There has to be some kind of punishment. The question is what is excessive and what is fnot enough punishment. I feel the American children deserve a fair shake with a firm hand.

By Jennifer

April 13, 2005 11:18 AM | Link to this

I completely agree with the action taken and I am glad the teacher took this seriously. I do have to wonder if the parents were notified of the child’s behavior? And, if so, how did they choose to handle it?

When my daughter, now 13, was in second grade she started coming home with items such as beany babies and colorful pencils. I asked her where she had gotten them (the pencils) and she said it was a reward for doing well in class. Let me point out that at this particular time she had not yet brought home the beany babies. That seemed reasonable to me because I have known many teachers to reward students in the same way. However, once the beany babies appeared I contacted her teacher and he said that he had not in fact given her the pencils and that lead me to believe she was stealing from other students.

I took her up to the police department and explained the situation. Then, I asked to speak to an officer. An officer was nice enough to come down and sit with us and explain to her the extent of the wrong she was doing and how it would be worse for her as she got older if she continued this type of behavior.

I met with the teacher the following school day and explained to him what I had done. He seemed very glad that I had taken things seriously and had taken steps to hopefully prevent any future problems. The officer had previously agreed to come into the classroom with myself, my daughter, and the teacher before students would be at school so he could ensure she placed the items back in the student’s desks.

Later that day my daughter apologized to each person she had stolen from and almost all of them accepted her apology and remained her friends. She also felt as if a huge burden had been lifted off of her shoulders because she knew what she was doing was wrong, but she wanted the ‘nice things the other children had’ and she let that get in the way of good judgement.

I would do everything the exact same way if asked if I would do it again.

By C.M.

April 13, 2005 11:29 AM | Link to this

Correct them young! Make an impression that last a lifetime! This teacher probably saved this kids life. No matter the socioeconomic status, or race, or if even the mom loved “black meat” (lol) This WAS A GREAT IDEA.

By Vic

April 13, 2005 11:33 AM | Link to this

In my opinion, the action taken by the teacher and principal is a definite “do”. I don’t see it as a disciplinary action. It’s just accountability, even at the age of a second grader. Furthermore, the woman who called, regardless of whether she is the mother or not, should understand that this child has a greater problem than being traumatized by the action taken. Apparently, this child has been conditioned to think that it is okay to steal. Does this woman think that his encounter with the police is going to cause him to steal even more? Probably not. I think we need more accountability across the board, even at the early stages.

By Lola

April 13, 2005 11:43 AM | Link to this

I think the teacher did absolutely the right thing. And it sounds like the parent could use a little “scaring straight” herself.

By Susan

April 13, 2005 11:45 AM | Link to this

Great idea. When I was 4 or 5 (can’t remember, it’s been way to many years), I stole a piece of candy from the local mom and pop shop. When I got home with the candy and showed it to my dad, he asked me where I got the money to pay for it and I told him that I took it from the shelf. My dad marched my tail back to the store and made me give the candy back to the owner and apologize for stealing. Then when I got home, I got my tail whipped. Do I steal now. No Way!! That memory has stayed with me forever. Kids have to be taught now what is right or wrong, because for those of us who do teach our children, the ones who are not taught right from wrong are setting a horrible example for our kids.

By v

April 13, 2005 11:50 AM | Link to this

I like the idea. I believe serious behavior problems require serious action. Sometimes no matter how hard a parent tries, kids just go their own way. I had trouble with my kids throughout their teenage years. Once I was called about some “missing items” and I returned the kids to the scene of the crime to speak with the police officer who had been called. When I gave the officer a bag with their medication and toothbrushes in it he looked puzzled. I told him I didn’t expect to be able to bring the kids back home. He handcuffed them and placed them in the backseat of the patrol car. To make a long story short, Gwinnett County was “too full” to lock them up for stealing, but they did have a few anxious moments. I’m sorry to say that that was not the end of our troubles, but our extended family hung in there and refused to tolerate wrong behavior. Many years later I see grown men who are working hard to make a better life for themselves. Parents can’t give up and they certainly can’t expect the process to be painless. We are charged with the moral responsibility of raising our children to be decent members of society!

By Amy W.

April 13, 2005 11:51 AM | Link to this

it seems as though the child is simply being punished for stealing instead of learning WHY stealing is wrong. did the teacher or parent ever take the time to explain why people shouldn’t steal?

if the teacher explained this concept to the child (by relating it to his/her 7-year-old way of life), and the child still didn’t get it, then I agree with the teacher’s reaction. however, if the teacher repeatedly reprimanded the child by just stating that “stealing is wrong,” or “you shouldn’t do that,” then the child isn’t learning anything except for that stealing gives him/her attention.

By yesiamworried

April 13, 2005 11:54 AM | Link to this

Generally, it is the parents who are doing a lousy job of discipline at home who complain about these types of actions.

By Savyon

April 13, 2005 11:57 AM | Link to this

Does anyone remember the Scared Straight program that they used to have in schools? I remember they took us to actual jails and had prisoners in our faces yelling & screaming all the while giving us a ‘staged’ look at what goes on in jail. This little incident was not bad. If that is what it is going to take to make that little fellow stop what he is doing, then make it work. My visit to that jail when I was in junior high made me walk the straight and narrow

By Susan

April 13, 2005 12:09 PM | Link to this

I have mixed feelings about this one. While I think the “scare tactic” could potentially work, I think someone, a paernt, a counselor, should be trying to figure out the “why” behind the theft. Obviously there is something very troubling going on with this child, the theft could be a cry for help!

By Jennifer Duggar

April 13, 2005 12:19 PM | Link to this

As a teacher myself I am surprised at the courage of this teacher. With today’s fear of lawsuits and parental wrath most of us walk on eggshells. Was the action itself extreme? Maybe. Were there other remedies available? Maybe. Are teachers infallible? No way. I sense a teacher at the end of her/his rope doing the best she/he could at a tough job. What I don’t doubt was the intention of the teacher to help the student become a better person. I hope it worked.

By ADL

April 13, 2005 12:21 PM | Link to this

Bravo Jennifer!!

You did the right thing by including the teacher and a policeman, but not expecting them to do it for you.

By Ann

April 13, 2005 12:24 PM | Link to this

Susan, I think that the action was a result of a lack of parental involvement. Clearly, the parent was not willing to look into the why or the what for that matter.

By v

April 13, 2005 12:24 PM | Link to this

Yes, I do believe that this type of behavior might be a cry for help. That help might be “help me learn right from wrong”, “help me learn self-control”, “help me have some limits”. I am a parent of special needs children and I work in the public school system. No matter what the problems or troubles are, no matter where they come from, children need to learn to respect authority and obey society’s rules. This should start LONG before second grade.

By Gary Harrison

April 13, 2005 01:12 PM | Link to this

Excellent tactic. This will give the child some familiarity with the criminal justice and court systems which will obviously play a major part in his life. Since the child has no values and/or parental guidance to instill them, the State might as well take him into tow early.

By Pinkey Z.

April 13, 2005 01:47 PM | Link to this

As the famous saying goes, “et tu, Brute?” or, more appropriately, “el gato esta en la biblioteca.” As these brilliant sayings clearly show, these other comments are innappropriate and should not be shown on this site.

By Ann

April 13, 2005 01:51 PM | Link to this

Pinkey, Maybe I’m slow…what the heck are you talking about?

By Shauna

April 13, 2005 01:51 PM | Link to this

First of all, the teacher was WRONG!! She/he should have brought the parent into the classroom with the child and the principal and worked it out from there.

I am a person who does not trust the police at all and if someone called the police on my child without informing me, that teacher would feel the wrath of my anger.

Now, I have a second grader too, and sometimes they do come home with other people’s things. I have found, with girls, that they give things away to make friends and then when they get home and their parents ask where is that particular item, they sing another story.

I’m not being too soft on this kid, but I think that the teacher should have done more research to find a different approach.

By Shauna

April 13, 2005 01:52 PM | Link to this

Pinkey,

Maybe I’m ignorant, but I don’t understand what you are trying to say. Please explain in English.

By Dianne

April 13, 2005 01:54 PM | Link to this

What a great idea. I live in California and I see way too many children of school age being coddled by their parents. 7 and 8 year olds are as capable of comitting crimes as a teenager. I used similar tactics on my kids and it leaves a lasting impression. Now as adults they still remember. I would not hesitate to do the same to my grandson if the need arises.

By Jennifer

April 13, 2005 02:03 PM | Link to this

Ok, I must ask, who is the brute you are referring to? And, what does a cat in a library have to do with the topic?

By Jennifer

April 13, 2005 02:08 PM | Link to this

Judging by the article I believe the teacher probably did contact the parents before and she probably felt this was the last resort.

True, it doesn’t say whether she did or did not contact the parents prior to this incident, but if the child has been, “repeatedly repremanded” by the teacher, then I am sure he/she had already been in contact with the parental units.

Btw, what’s your reasoning behind not trusting the police? I agree there are bad cops out there, but if you do not trust and/or fear the police then your child(ren) will grow up feeling the same way; and, for no other reason than that is how you feel.

By Patti

April 13, 2005 02:23 PM | Link to this

Hey all,

The caller told me that the teacher had discussed the theft with the parent. However, I don’t think she talked the parent about the plan to bring in the police officer.

Patti

By Dan

April 13, 2005 02:38 PM | Link to this

The why behind the theft? Puulllease it is because the kid is a brat, remember he was reprimanded repeatedly. I wish they mentioned a time frame or if previously the parents were called. But I applaud the teacher who had the gumption to do this, but with the parent complaining so loudly the kid will miss the lesson and assume he was wronged. they should have thrown in a paddling for good measure.

By Jennifer

April 13, 2005 02:50 PM | Link to this

It seems to me the child probably has some family issues going on. Maybe the child stole for attention; be it positive or otherwise. Maybe he/she has siblings who steal. There are a lot of reasons as to why this incident happened. The main thing is: Hopefully the child learned a valuable lesson. If not, I will probably be watching him/her on CNN in ten years.

By Sly

April 13, 2005 03:00 PM | Link to this

Jennifer. CNN? Who still watches that rag? Anyway - family issues shmissues. Should of spanked the kid too. Bravo to the teacher.

By Jennifer

April 13, 2005 03:07 PM | Link to this

It was more of an example of seeing the kid on the news as a teen or adult.

By Angelia

April 13, 2005 03:19 PM | Link to this

I do not believe that this was the right thing to do. If everyone thinks that the boy has problems at home or at school then maybe someone needs to give him some one on one attention and not embarrass the little boy. This is embarrassing to the boy, his family and maybe even the teacher who did not think first. Maybe she needs to get in trouble everytime she does one little thing wrong (someone call the police she is driving 46 miles per hour instead of 45 and she knows better). How does it feel?

By Sly

April 13, 2005 03:31 PM | Link to this

It was the right thing to do. That’s why it was done. Is it better to let this behavior continue? Sometimes somebody’s gotta do something provocative to get thru to someone. Better now than later when the consequences will be greater and the embarassment bigger. C’mon Angelia. Does anything go with you?

By David

April 13, 2005 03:32 PM | Link to this

Lord help, shauna and angelia, i can’t..well yes i can believe what you wrote…i teach…i called a parent last week…guess what…the parent/mom SENT HER BOYFRIEND to the conference…this kid is an 8th grader…maybe if the teachers had called the cops in the second grade he could have been saved…ps…same kid was caught with marijuana 3 weeks ago here in school…he is in the alternative school the rest of the year and 1st semester of next year….GREAT MOM!!!!!….same kid the week he was caught: went to clinic…had a definite strep throat…nurse calls mom and gives mom diagnosis…mom: “you ain’t a doctor, i ain’t listen to what you have to say”…GREAT MOM!!!!Kid may end up in the state prison in Jackson…

By Jennifer

April 13, 2005 03:40 PM | Link to this

What the child did was not just “one little thing wrong”. Stealing, and repeatedly at that, is a problem. The child had obviously been in trouble for the same exact act before.

Making excuses does not help a child. If adults make excuses then the child will not accept responsibility for his/her actions, and, therefore, they will continue to believe they are being wronged throughout life when they are in fact in the wrong.

I think you are missing the point entirely as your response seems quick and with not a lot of thought behind what you are actually saying or the example you are using.

Embarrassing a child is not always the answer, but sometimes it is and in this case I believe it was called for. If the child didn’t feel he/she was doing anything wrong he/she wouldn’t be embarrassed to begin with. I am certain the child knew what they were doing was wrong since the teacher had apparently spoken to him/her about it before. And, even at the ‘tender age’ of seven they know when they are told not to do something that it is wrong to do it again.

Maybe his parents should be embarrassed because talking to them as adults doesn’t seem to be doing the trick. But, I am sure they feel as if they were wronged and, in turn, the child will feel as if he/she was wronged as well.

There is an excuse for nearly everything, but results are what matters. If the ending result of this incident is that the child never steals again then I feel as if it’s perfectly justified.

I don’t accept excuses from my 15 year old son, either, and let me assure you he has plenty of them. I hold him accountable for his actions and I always have. More parents need to do the same. Otherwise, the children do not grow up to be productive and responsible adults.

By David K

April 13, 2005 03:44 PM | Link to this

You have to be kidding. The parent can call to complain about the teacher, but can’t bother to teach the kid that stealing is wrong?

By Jennifer

April 13, 2005 03:52 PM | Link to this

David-

Like I said, responsibility for actions is what is lacking. I was in the classroom as a teacher aide back home in Illinois and I dreaded parent/teacher conferences because the parents (generally) felt their child was being robbed of grades or otherwise being singled out in class. Those failing grades couldn’t possibly be the result of the parent not enforcing a bedtime, not ensuring the child had breakfast before school (which, btw, I fed one particular child nearly every morning in the cafeteria after all of the other kids left so he wouldn’t be made fun of - because mom didn’t see to it that he had food). It is extremely frustrating when you have a situation like that and have to contact Child Services; after doing that you realize as a teacher just how tied your hands really are. Of course, the parents always blamed us for calling in the necessary authorities because they felt as if they were being wronged. They didn’t even see they were the ones who were wrong by not making sure their child was taken care of, or at least keeping them out of school long enough to get rid of the lice infestation on their head. It was bad enough their child(ren) had a strike against them because mom felt the need to drink or do other drugs while pregnant - btw, that wasn’t her fault either.

Point is, making excuses for children’s actions is not the way to remedy the problem. And, until parents stop doing that the children will never accept responsibility for their actions.

By Sarah

April 13, 2005 03:53 PM | Link to this

Why was the caller not horrified that a 2nd grader was stealing and and being incorrigible in class? If the caller was indeed the parent, then you have your explanation for the incident right there. We have lost all sense of responsibility in our society. No one believes that actions have consequences - everything is “someone else’s fault”. This teacher did the child an invaluable service. She taught that stealing is a crime. If the child continues defiantly in the classroom, it will be because as usual the parents support the child in misbehavior by undermining the rights of authority.

By Samuel

April 13, 2005 04:13 PM | Link to this

Seems like most folk in here agree with the action taken and I too concur. The child has to learn that there are consequences for your actions sooner or later. Better now with a teacher faking it than later on the “real” looking down the muzzle of a police 9mm or worse. He’ll think twice now I’m sure.

By kim

April 13, 2005 04:21 PM | Link to this

What a wonderful idea! Isn’t that a good use of our “school resource officers” (I’m in Glynn Co.). When I was a kid, my dad was a cop. I stole a pack of chewing gum and my mom caught me with it at home. I got the dreaded “sit there till your dad gets home”. First, I got paddled, then he hauled me down to our small town police department. He had the officer on duty take my “statement”, fingerprinted me, and put me in the empty jail cell. I was all by myself for long enough that they probably had a cup of coffee, while I felt like I was never gonna get to go home. I was 7, and 40 years have passed. I’m still afraid to put my hands in my pockets or my purse when I’m in a store!! You betcha that lady did the right thing! I have my doubts about it working though; kids are different now than we were 40 years ago. One can hope…

By Jennifer

April 13, 2005 04:46 PM | Link to this

I think kids are different today only because they aren’t held accountable. I know when my parents were growing up in the 40’s and 50’s they were certainly held accountable for their actions.

Now, parents want to make excuses for bad behavior on behalf of their children because they’re afraid the child’s feelings may get hurt. Hey, sometimes learning hurts and life isn’t fair. If we coddle our children what type of people can we expect them to be in today’s society and workforce? If I acted out or stole from anyone in my office I would expect to be fired immediately; if not turned in to the proper authorities. That is life and children need to learn that that is how it is in the real world.

By Swan

April 13, 2005 04:56 PM | Link to this

Knowing that the teacher had contacted the parent before about these thefts with no results, I am inclined to say that her actions were a refreshing way of dealing with the issue.

Had the police officer lectured the child in front of his peers, I might feel differently. But the officer took him from the classroom. Hopefully, he talkled to him about it as well. It probably also sent a message to his fellow students that stealing is serious business and won’t be tolerated.

I’m also thrilled to see a teacher being backed up by the principal!

This parent may be upset that her child had to face some consequences for his actions at an early age, but better now than later when he’s going to a juvenile detention facility. The trauma he’d face there would be a lot worse.

By Jennifer

April 13, 2005 05:08 PM | Link to this

YAY! I’m thrilled to hear that a teacher was backed up by the principal! What a blessing! I think this was absolutely the right thing to do, especially because the parent had been notified about the behavior before.

Kids have to learn discipline, and if they’re not getting it at home, the schools have to do whatever they can—within the law—to maintain control. I’m proud of the teacher for having the courage to address the situation!

By CD

April 14, 2005 08:40 AM | Link to this

Shauna, That may have been one of the most ignorant things I’ve ever read! Are you going to expect an officer to contact you before writing your kid a speeding ticket, too???? Whether you like it or not, your paying taxes does not mean you own/control schools. If a LAW is broken, a teacher is under no obligation to contact you first to get your take on how you think things should be handled. I’d hate to be the teacher of your second grader with a parent like you.

By Tiffany

April 14, 2005 09:05 AM | Link to this

My comment is this— Good Job!! I am the mother of a 12 that was just remanded to alternative school and I am very frustrated that parents refuse to accept responsibility for there children. My soon was acting out in class and being disruptive not because he was not taught better at home but because he is immature. I am using this experience to teach him that there are consequences to your choices and actions. He has to catch public transportaion and walk the rest of the 2 miles home. His father and I want him to realize that he needs to appreciate the blessings that he has and learn to live by the rules of society without blaming other people and making excuses. Everyday he apologizes for his actions and looks forward to the day that he can go back to regular school and ride the school bus that he had taken for granted before.

By Holly

April 14, 2005 09:41 AM | Link to this

And people wonder why we have a shortage of quality teachers in Georgia. No respect for their authority from parents of students who misbehave. Applaud goes to the administrators of that school who DID support this teacher. BRAVO

By ROLO

April 14, 2005 10:03 AM | Link to this

I place the blame on the parent. There is no way the parent does not know that child exihibits this kind of behavior…and if perhaps the parent didn’t have a clue…shame on the parent for not paying attention to the child. I have no doubts that this kid is a compulsive thief.

By Eric

April 14, 2005 10:08 AM | Link to this

I’m the father of a 19 year old who has a repeated problem with stealing. I applaud the teacher for calling the cops. I’ve called the cops on my teen and will again if he steals from me. Without punishment the crime will continue. As a parent who tried to teach my child right from wrong, I understand the teachers reasoning. There is no excuse. Hopefully this child has been scared “straight.” The problem today is that to many parents are trying to protect their children at the expense of teaching them the fundamentals of living in society. And then there are just some kids who don’t care and do it anyway. Is there an underlying reason, there might be, but there still should be consequences for a persons wrong actions. I believe I should have been harder on my son, but he didn’t go without being taught the difference between right and wrong. In some cases, the child just doesn’t care. Okay…now go ahead and pull it apart and tell me I must have been a horible parent for my child to have such disregard for rules.

By Judy H.

April 14, 2005 10:18 AM | Link to this

Some parents coddle their children too much and that’s why they end up in Juvenile Court, where I work. I do not think that is too hard a lesson on the child. You cannot start reprimanding the child when he becomes a teenager, by that time it is too late. Children form good morals by their parents teaching them about the wrong things they do from an EARLY AGE.

By Tiffany

April 14, 2005 10:25 AM | Link to this

Eric, there will be plenty of things that we will feel could have been done differently but we can’t go back. My son is 1 of 4 and we have only had lasting problems with him. However I refuse to make excuses for him and his wrongdoings. I do and have always supported the teachers and administrators of there schools (even when I disagreed) to show my kids that plenty of things will happen that we don’t like or agree with but there is no excuse for breaking the rules and should we choose to do so, then there are consequences. My mother thought that I was crazy for allowing a 12 year old to catch public transportation and walk home but that is all apart of HIS accepting responsibility. I work and so does his father, we will not leave work for 2 hours in the middle of the day to take him home (where would the consequence be in that). I have a tough love approach to my kids and they are starting to understand why. The world is not, has never been and will never be fair and they are learning it early!!! Good day to all.

By WB

April 14, 2005 10:27 AM | Link to this

Shauna,

Girl you have some serious issues. I have an 8 year old and I am very involved in my children’s life. I applaud that teacher in everyway. She took appropriate action. If we can not teach our kids that there are reprocussions for their actions, who will? The drug dealers and gangs. It wasn’t the teachers fault it was the parents fault. Think about this the next time you are staring down the barrell of a gun, “this could be that second grader”. However, I do agree with the comment about trusting officers.

By Jennifer

April 14, 2005 10:33 AM | Link to this

I applaud your efforts Tiffany and Eric. Being a parent isn’t easy and watching your children suffer for their actions isn’t an easy task, either. I am glad to know there are other parents out there who hold their children accountable for their actions.

My 15 year old son is learning consequences for his actions now since almost everyone in his class has their learner’s permit to drive. He will have his, too, just as soon as he stops throwing 3 year old tantrums about cleaning his room and when he can learn to be more respectful to his family members. Until then - it’s public transportation or walking for him.

By Jennifer

April 14, 2005 10:43 AM | Link to this

Tiffany, my mom and dad about went through the roof when I told them I had taken my then second grader to the police station after I found out she was stealing from her classmates. However, I have no respect for (any) thief and I felt very strongly about the situation. I did not want my daughter to take what she did lightly so I felt she needed a reality check that would stick with her for the rest of her life.

Life is not easy and parents coddling their children will not help the kids in the long run. Employers certainly do not coddle their employees. That is the real world.

By Tiffany

April 14, 2005 10:45 AM | Link to this

Jennifer, you are right. It is hard to see our children suffer(lol) for the consequences of there actions but that is all apart of being a parent. I choose not to be my children’s friend. I know that rules and boundries are not set by friends but by responsible parents and when those things are not followed then a “friend” usually can’t impose the consequences in an appropriate manner. Uniforms,walking and searches are all consequences of his actions and he is scared straight everyday to do what it takes to get back to school and prove that he can be a productive member of society.

By CD

April 14, 2005 10:49 AM | Link to this

Eric, Quite the contrary. You exhibit two traits that make you different than a “horrible parent.” First, an acknowledgment that you “should have been harder” on your child. Horrible parents never believe such. More importantly, you TAKE A STAND against wrong behavior. For a parent to call the police on their own flesh and blood takes unbelievable COURAGE. Being a good parent is more important than being a good friend. Friendship will always come later when they realize how THEY are a better person because of YOUR efforts. I respect you immensely for that!

By Tiffany

April 14, 2005 10:56 AM | Link to this

Jennifer, there needs to be more parents in the world. I mean real parents that understood that “babying” our children forever only makes them grown babies. I have too many experiences with too many adults that parents are still trying to raise. My husband decided long before we had children that rules, consequences and discipline would be apart of our children’s life until the need for such was no longer our responsibility. I look at it this way, when we set the rules of the house for the entire family then allow them to be broken and disregarded then we have chaos!! Our rules have not changed from child 1 (who is 14) to child 4 (who is 4). it is the only way to have order. I hope that 1 day my 12 year old will appreciate the fact that he has been made to be responsible for his actions but weather he does or not, I can’t change the rules because he doesn’t follow them.

By Advisor

April 14, 2005 11:34 AM | Link to this

Perfect! I wish more teachers would take actions that would resonate more with students than just a “time out” in the hallway.

By Sly

April 14, 2005 11:40 AM | Link to this

I think kids should be shown tough love but that the parents shouldn’t forget the love part. The love isn’t just saying “I love you” but proving it too. Its easy to always say no to things and feel you’re right and fine because you “love” your child. But you can’t exasperate your kids either. Discipline them in some ways but spoil them in other ways and your kids won’t resent you later in life. So after embarassing this kid for stealing, he should now be “rehabbed” by being bought a few special things that will make him experience and feel a little love and giving in his life. Amen.

By Jennifer

April 14, 2005 11:43 AM | Link to this

So, the child should be purchased items to show that he is loved by his parents?

By Avo

April 14, 2005 11:49 AM | Link to this

I think it’s an awful idea. While there is a logic for the police to step in where parents and school are failing, something is very obviously wrong when you have to call the cops to teach a second-grader that stealing is not right.

In a free society -and we are not living in a police state- the role of police is not and should not be educating and raising somebody else’s kids.

There are enough disciplinary tools at school to remedy these behavioral problems. If he still is having and causing trouble, then there are psychologists and ultimately he can be suspended, which is much less traumatic than being escorted by a policeman out of the classroom.

If a 7-year-old needs a policeman to learn that stealing a pencil from his classmate is wrong, then I wonder how many cops would be needed in his adult age to tell him that stealing his neighbor’s car just because he fancies it is not really a good idea.

By Elizabeth

April 14, 2005 11:50 AM | Link to this

Good for this teacher! I hope the school continues to support her decision and doesn’t conform to this parent’s pressure.

By Tiffany

April 14, 2005 01:29 PM | Link to this

This is an issue that will divide people for the ages because everyone has an opinion. all we can do as parents is instill good morals,love, faith and trust and repeat as necessary.We all have things that we would change if given a chance but we get 1 chance to raise our kids and buying them is not the way.

By AnnieNanny

April 14, 2005 01:40 PM | Link to this

My problem with this action is that it wasn’t fully honest. The officer “pretended” to arrest to child. I would prefer some other action that would teach the child right from wrong, such as immersing him/her in a milieu where honesty reigns. Telling lies and stealing are related. Why try to correct one by doing the other?

By FCC

April 14, 2005 02:27 PM | Link to this

I think having him escorted out with the police was justified and was simply done for shock value. Hopefully, the child will learn that theft is wrong. He may have been taught that by his parents, but it’s obvious he didn’t understand the seriousness of taking what doesn’t belong to you. Who knows, perhaps this will spare him from being handcuffed and sent to jail in his later years. It’s about time teachers take control of the classroom!

By Jennifer

April 14, 2005 02:37 PM | Link to this

Just out of curiosity, has anyone read this article today about the growing problem of agressive parents?

http://www.cnn.com/2005/EDUCATION/04/14/aggressive.parents.ap/index.html

By Shauna

April 14, 2005 02:48 PM | Link to this

WB AND CD,

I am very sorry that you do not agree with my comments, but I’m sure that if you talk to any of the teachers at my daughters’ school, they will tell you that I support them 150%. My daughter better not be wrong when something comes up. She knows that her father and I do not play when it comes to her education. We pay big money for her to go to school and we make her remember that - always.

Now, this is still a free country and I am allowed not to trust the police. But, if soooooooooooooooo many police officers had not given me a reason to distrust them then maybe I would feel differently.

I don’t consider my comments ignorant at all and I take offense to whomever wrote it. The bottom line is that teachers and police officers are NOT always right and I don’t feel like the teacher or the cop was right in this instance. The teacher could have done other things. Suspension(in or out of school), detention, expulsion (sp) anything but bring in the police.

Holding children responsible for their behavior is great, but we must remember that they are still children. It is their job to make mistakes (and learn from them), it is our job to help them learn from them.

For the comment about a ticket, it was uncalled for. Teenagers drive, not 7 year olds. There are alot of learning years between the age of 7 and 15.

So, please don’t feel sorry for my daughters’ teachers, they will be the first one to tell you that I am up at the school very often and I support them probably more than any other parent in the school. They love me. But they love me because they know I love my child enough to let her know when she is wrong and I fix it.

By Sly

April 14, 2005 03:04 PM | Link to this

Yup - buy this kid some of the nicest pencils you could ever find. Cuz I’ll bet you a dollar he doesn’t have jack at home. I’ll pay for em. It’s not buying their love. It’s filling a need this kid obviously has. He’s not stealing the teacher’s purse - he’s stealing effin pencils.

By Jennifer

April 14, 2005 03:07 PM | Link to this

Shauna,

You would rather have the child expelled from school than to have a law-enforcement officer pull the child out & probably give the kid a talking to about stealing? Wow. I’m stunned.

It’s great that you’re involved in your child’s education and moral development. But, before you’re so quick to judge this teacher’s actions, please remember that this child’s mother was not. If she had been dealing with the situation, the stealing probably would have stopped. I just can’t believe that you would rather a child receive no education at all because he’s stealing than to let the teacher use the resources available on campus to try to address the situation. Please remember: THIS WAS NOT THE TEACHER’S FIRST RESPONSE. The teacher tried other methods of dealing with the behavior, and they did not solve the problem.

As far as your attitude towards police: I agree, not all cops are good. However, the vast majority are, and they serve and protect both you and your family, whether you trust them or not. If you’ve had negative experiences, share them with your children so that they can be informed about the inappropriate behavior of bad cops. I would hope that you would follow-up with their supervisors to have your situation addressed. That said, I teach my kids to respect cops. The last thing I’d want them to do is try to flee when a cop tries to pull them over for a simple traffic citation or to avoid calling the police when someone breaks in because they’re afraid of cops. I suspect that teaching fear may lead to that type of response, and I don’t feel that the moral vindication that I might get by maintaining an attitude of not trusting police officers is worth dying over.

By Shauna

April 14, 2005 03:12 PM | Link to this

Sly,

I think that you have a good point. This child does need love as much as he needs discipline. The teacher handled the discipline now she also needs to handle the love. And, love can be handled many different ways. She could let him be line leader one day and tell him how wonderfully is he doing in that job. Little things like that to help his self-esteem. We don’t want to coddle these kids but we don’t want to break their spirit either. There is a fine line.

By Jennifer

April 14, 2005 03:20 PM | Link to this

Sly,

My three year old recently stole a bean bag from a friend’s house. Why? Because she wanted to play with it. She has plenty of toys, and I’m sure she has a bean bag or two in her collection, but she didn’t have THIS bean bag. Having things has nothing to do with a child stealing. Impulse control is more likely to blame, and you certainly don’t solve that by buying him something when he misbehaves.

It’s called cause & effect. If you train children that if they steal they’ll get yelled at but then you by them something, they’ll do it! Kids crave attention. When my kid stole the bean bag, we started the process of discussing how stealing is wrong (on her level), she could not play with the stolen item, and she had to return it and apologize. It’s an appropriate punishment for the crime. She may be in the early stages of developing impulse control, but I’m certainly not going to reward that behavior in any way.

I prefer to do the unexpected reward—after an especially long day of shopping/errands, letting her watch her favorite movie or slipping a small chocolate surprise in her lunchbox.

If you had said that this child’s stealing is a cry for help, and after disciplining the behavior, the parents need to reorganize their prioritites & spend more quality time with their kids doing puzzles, reading books, going over schoolwork—you know, being active parents—then I may thing you had a good point. But simply trying to ply the kid with material things solves nothing. It just teaches kids to feel entitled to everything in the world and it doesn’t teach boundaries or respect.

By Shauna

April 14, 2005 03:30 PM | Link to this

Jennifer,

Too many of our young people get introduced to the justice system too soon. All I’m saying is that there could have been another response that may have been better than bringing in the cops.

As far as the cops being here to serve and protect us everyday, they make that decision for themselves when the decide to become a cop. I was in the military and no one felt bad for me because I stayed up night after night doing shift work to protect this country. I was lucky enough to be discharged before all of this war stuff started but, I chose to be in the military and I didn’t expect anyone to respect me more for it. My children aren’t old enough to drive yet, but trust me when I tell you that I would never allow them to think that running from the cops is a good thing. I teach them that you can avoid cops (bad or good) by behaving in a way that is acceptable to society. If you do nothing wrong, they should have nothing to say to you. I also teach them that no matter what the situation, to come to us (their parents) whenever a cop says anything to you. Even if it is just a hello in passing.

Not all children are thugs or bad children. I think more adults need to have more faith in more children to do the right thing.

Jennifer, the bottom line is that I don’t trust the cops to help the situation. I always expect them to over exaggerate the situation. And trust me, I haven’t been wrong very often.

This student needs love and positive attention. Bringing the cops in is not positive.

By CD

April 14, 2005 03:33 PM | Link to this

Shauna, No one said police are always right. But they were in this case. The kid WAS stealing… period. You just have a chip on your shoulder about cops. “I am a person who does not trust the police at all and if someone called the police on my child without informing me, that teacher would feel the wrath of my anger.” Remember writing that?

The “ticket” comment has merit. It was not a comment about at what age a person can drive. It was about the principle that those in a position of authority do not have to contact YOU before they act with the authority they have been given. Whether it be stealing in the second grade, driving at 16 or armed robbery at 21, authority does not need YOUR permission to do their jobs.

As far as I’m concerned, you brought harsh opinions on yourself when you wrote the extreme statement that the “teacher would feel the wrath of my anger.” You are the classic example of the parent who thinks yelling and clenched fists are the solution to problems. If you’re not that person, do not use words like “wrath.”

Additionally, it is mathematically impossible to give more than 100%. That remark, combined with “wrath” shows me that you are prone to exaggeration, as well.

By CD

April 14, 2005 03:43 PM | Link to this

Sly, C’mon man! “He’s not stealing the teacher’s purse - he’s stealing effin pencils.”????? What’s the difference? The value may be different, but the principle is the same. Thiefs (and I’ve known MANY) steal what they think they can get away with. To a 2nd grader it’s a pencil… to a 8th grader, a CD… a Senior, a car. Would I be justified in taking your wallet and then saying “It’s your wallet, man, not your effin vehicle.”? I hope not.

By Shauna

April 14, 2005 03:49 PM | Link to this

CD,

First of all I do not have a chip on my shoulder when it comes to cops. I just plain do not like them. I am allowed to not like them, this is still America isn’t it? And yes, I do remember my comments. I don’t need you to repeat them too me.

As far as a teacher feeling my wrath, you are right, that teacher would not like me. But, not because I would go off on her in the classroom or in the office with the principal. But I would be on the phone with the superintendent and we would all have a meeting. You can show someone how angry you are without screaming and hollering at them. I don’t have to go up to the school and make an *ss of myself to get my point across that I thought that was the wrong move. Maybe you need to examine your views and figure out why you automatically assumed that I would go off the handle. Maybe using the word “wrath” was a little much, but trust me, by the time I got through with that teacher, she would never think about speaking to my child again. Let alone call the police on her.

For the record, my child would never continue to misbehave in this manner. I would put a stop to it the first time. Although, never having a first time would be my first preference.

By CD

April 14, 2005 04:07 PM | Link to this

“I just plain do not like them” = Chip on Shoulder. My point is made. Don’t patronize me with your “this is America” crap.

You are an arrogant one, aren’t you? “I would be on the phone with the superintendent…”?!?!?!?! If you were in the military, you should know about chain of command. When your CO did something you didn’t like, did you call the Commander-in-Chief?

And what’s with “by the time I got through with that teacher, she would never think about speaking to my child again. Let alone call the police on her.” Ooooooooo.. aren’t you the tough one. If you do your job rather than try to tell a teacher how to do theirs, you’ll never have to worry about a situation like this, will you?

You don’t have to go to school to make an *ss of yourself… you’ve done a fine job of that right here.

By Shauna

April 14, 2005 04:35 PM | Link to this

CD,

First of all you don’t know a da** thing about me, and if you had finished reading my answer, you would see that I don’t have these problems with my child.

As far as being in the military is concerned, all of the officers in my platoon had open-door-policies so if I did choose to skip certain parts of the chain-of-command it would have been okay. So, don’t try and tell me anything about being in the military if you haven’t tried it yourself.

Now, I truly understand that not all police officers are bad. But that does not mean that I cannot have my own opinion about them. I truly do not understand why that is so hard for you to understand. I can respect a police officer without having to like them. Just like I can respect my boss without having to like him. The truth of the matter is that both of them have a CERTAIN amount of authority over me that I must adhere to. I don’t have to like it, I just have to respect it.

I’m not trying to be tough or hard or anything like that. I just know what I would do in situation like this. I would not stand by quietly and let it blow over. That is not my personality. That does not mean that my personality is that of someone who would walk up to the teacher and knock her out either. I am capable of having an adult conversation and letting my feeling be known without violence. You are the one that seems to be getting upset. I am actually at my job with my co-workers laughing at you because you seem to be getting hot under the collar. My co-workers think that you are taking everything that I am saying and misinterpretting it. They know me better than anyone in this state. (They should, I’ve been here for 6 years) and they agree with me.

Some people think that getting the cops involved solves everything and it doesn’t.

Now, you can have your opinion that I am making an *ss of myself on this blog and that’s okay. But there are about thirty people over my shoulder who think that I would be right and warranted to go over the teacher and the administrators head straight to the superintendent.

As far as me doing my job, I do believe that there are at least two people on this blog who can attest to the fact that parents can only do so much. The rest is up to the child. Both of the parents on this blog said that they taught their kids right from wrong and they still got into some trouble. Does that mean that they aren’t doing their job? No it means that they did the best they could. That’s really all that you can ask of a parent, isn’t it?

For the record, I’m allow to arrogant. I served this country proudly for 4 years, 3 months and 1 day. I did it with my eyes open and with pride. Sometimes with pride comes arrogance. You need to be arrogant on the battlefield. You need to believe that there isn’t a better marksman in the group but you. You need to believe that you are the best soldier in the world and that your actions will help your fellow soldiers get out of a sticky situation. Maybe it is time to wind that arrogance down, but I am a proud veteran who needed my arrogance to get me out of certain situations.

I’m not ashamed of it either.

By CD

April 15, 2005 08:55 AM | Link to this

I know of you only what you display here. Perhaps you are your own worst enemy.

Recap: You exaggerate. “150%”, “Wrath of my anger”

You have a beef with police. “I just plain do not like them�

You skip reasonable steps to resolve a situation. “I would be on the phone with the superintendent”

You are arrogant (self-described). “For the record, I’m allow to arrogant”

You play the tough-gal. “by the time I got through with that teacher, she would never think about speaking to my child again. Let alone call the police on her.�

If this is not you, you should be more careful what you convey. While you may have the support of “at least two people on this blog”, many others think you unrational. It’s not anger you sense from me… it’s disbelief that there are people like you. And telling me that a group of co-workers agrees with you means little. Saddam has supporters… doesn’t mean he’s right.

And you can stop the Lee Greenwood song and step away from in front of the flag. NO ONE has questioned your duty to our country (although no I question your position that it justifies arrogance.) Maybe it helped you at one time, but you are not on the battlefield, anymore. You are in society. And for the record, from me, backwords, my family has served in 4 wars and 4 branches of the military. We now serve in jobs ranging from the FBI agent to Professor of History and Government where we still serve our country, honorably. Conversely, we are not arrogant, but rather humbled by the destruction and loss of life war brings.

None of us would yell at a teacher for doing what she has every right to do. You seem to feel the need to detail your rights. (“This is America…”) You need to recognize the rights of others, in this case, the teacher. I return to my original premise: The teacher is within her rights to call the police. She DOES NOT NEED YOUR PERMISSION whether you like it (or police) or not.

By Jennifer

April 15, 2005 09:52 AM | Link to this

Shauna,

You said,”All I’m saying is that there could have been another response that may have been better than bringing in the cops.”

I’m curious to know what’s another response that you think the teacher should/could have taken?

Remember, keep this situation in mind, and not your own family situation. Here’s what we know from Patti:

Given that this is from a caller, we don’t have the details of what happened in the school. However, if a child was “repeatedly reprimanded,” I suspect that the principal was involved along the way, and the fact that the principal is backing the teacher also suggests to me, as a former educator, that the principal was aware of the repeated problem.

Oh, and as another aside. I’m not sure about this particular school/school system, but I do know that some counties in GA do not allow either after-school or lunch detention because a) they cannot deprive the child of lunch, even thought s/he is eating, or b) they cannot force a parent to provide transportation for their child. Sad but true. I think it’s a result of too many parents threatening to sue because their “baby” is being so horribly mistreated by the schools.

By M

April 15, 2005 02:21 PM | Link to this

I TOTALLY support the adult’s move to “show the student better than they could tell him.”

As a mother of twin 9-yr-old boys, it often takes more than just talking to them about the consequences of their actions. You often have to show them. Last year, I had to take my then 8-yr-old son to the East Point police station and let him think I was going to leave him there overnight. He had a temporary lapse in judgement and turned over a chair in class when he got upset - TOTALLY unacceptable. I told him that was vandalism and destroying school property and not to mention could have injured himself or someone else. The officers at the East Point police station (CampCreek precinct) were GREAT! The officer winked at me and said well can’t we just talk to him first. That officer spent 30 minutes of his time talking to both of my sons. Let’s just say, we have not had any other incidents with school furniture or outbursts.

I applaud this adult’s efforts to “save a child.”