Get Schooled

By Don

March 30, 2005 08:41 AM | Link to this

Which is better the ACT or the SAT? Both are believed to give an indication of a students ability at the college level. The same can be said of the IB curriculum in contrast to the AP. None however, can measure desire, determination and commitment to achieve.

By crh

March 30, 2005 08:43 AM | Link to this

The AP curriculum offers the best experience for high school students. It is demanding and in US History, the student learns not only history but reading and writing skills. These skills are very valuable for every future college student. My AP students say that it is the best course they ever took in high school.

By Mike

March 30, 2005 09:04 AM | Link to this

Get rid of the fluff in education! Engineering students do not need to take liberal arts or humanities, only what is required to pursue the engineering path! AP is a fair valuation of the ability to compete on a college level and complete a degree course. IB is useless for educational purposes in high school!

By Tricia

March 30, 2005 09:57 AM | Link to this

My high school was fortunate enough to offer both the IB and AP programs. As a freshman in high school, it was decided that we would be the first IB class (and I believe one of the first in the state) to start with pre-IB courses (comparable to “merit” or “advanced” courses). I decided to go with the IB route because of how the program was sold to us. Thankfully, at the beginning of our Junior year, it was decided that you could be enter 2 different IB programs, either full IB or certificate level where you got to pick which courses to take as IB and were able to eliminate some of the requirements such as the Theroy of Knowledge extended essay course. I believe there was also a community service requirement for full dipolma students along with the sixth subject requirements. I chose the certificate level and was able to mix and match IB and AP courses into my schedule which I believe was best for me. One program was not easier than the other, but I was able to enjoy a much more flexible schedule as a certificate student. The IB program is very demanding and not for students who are not committed to studying especially given the extra requirements to graduate with the full dipolma program. I loved the IB sixth subject required courses though. I chose theatre and it was very demanding but very beneficial! Also, as far as testing goes, there are still kinks in the system with IB scores and college acceptance of credit. For one thing, the claim that it will help your admittance to prestigous schools is debatable as a result of my fellow classmates who had exceptional grades and test scores but were still not admitted to top schools that coordinators had claimed “loved to accept IB program students.” I’m sure seeing that tough cirriculum is an asset to college admittance, but don’t bank on the program to carry you. Also, I made a perfect score on the IB English exam and still was only exempted out of first semester English at UGA, when I was told by IB coordinators that it would exempt me of both core required English courses. I was told by UGA, that they were not familiar enough with IB scoring yet, but had I taken the AP exam with a perfect score, I would have been exempt from the English courses. This was 5 years ago, so it may be different now. The college credit I received with both programs was nice because again, it allowed me some flexibility and the freedom to take some electives that ended up being my favorite classes at UGA, not because they were easy, but because I learned so much. Both programs well prepared me for college, however I feel that was a reflection of my excellent teachers and what they did as opposed to any cirriculum because I know many people who went through AP and still struggled to adjust to college courses. Both programs consist of good cirriculum. I’m glad I was afforded the ability to take both programs because some courses are better in one particular program and I was especially glad to have US History as AP and then take the IB History for a more international view. So, for parents, encourage your children into advanced courses, either program will be beneficial. Know that when IB programs start in schools, the first few classes are guinea pigs, expect changes to how they do things as they progress with the program. Neither program holds the magic key to college acceptance. For school administrators, please do not ever eliminate your AP courses in favor of IB courses. I am by no means a math person and the IB math did not suite me, but AP statistics was a lifesaver when my degree required that I take it at UGA and I had not taken the AP exam. Do not feel that one program is superior. Although this may contradict what I’ve said earlier, I disagree with the one poster who said math and science minded students don’t need to take liberal arts courses. In college, maybe not, but they need a well balanced background in high school, it is critical for their college success. For example, in my profession now, I see researchers who do not receive grants because they have learned zero writing skills and their proposals are horrible. In the end, both programs are made by the teachers that you have, they must be dedicated to take on these courses and the student workload that comes with them. They are the backbone for a student’s success. I wrote several of my high school teachers thank you notes in college, because I was better prepared than many of my friends thanks to their tough standards in high school.

By Austin

March 30, 2005 11:09 AM | Link to this

I grew up and went to school in Salt Lake City, Utah. My high school (at that time, 1995 grad) was the only school west of the Mississippi that offered the IB curriculum. My school also offered AP courses. In most cases they combined the class into an AP/IB class. It was easy for me to decide take both the AP test and the required IB test (for the full IB diploma). With the IB diploma, the University of Utah waived all of my general education requirements, allowing me to focus directly on my field of study and not worry about general ed classes. The AP credit got me out of Chemistry, some Math, and writing. The problem I had was that the Engineering department had it’s own General Ed requirements and the IB diploma didn’t do anything to those. It was ok though since it was only like 4-5 classes. Overall I think the IB program is good since there is a heavy emphasis on world events, history and foreign language. Also, with the Pre-IB track you start from an earlier age getting used to the material and what to expect as far as workload. I think that it makes it easier than deciding to take some AP classes in your senior year.

By high school teacher

March 30, 2005 11:31 AM | Link to this

How sad that engineers like Mike have no culture, and don’t appreciate those who do.

By Theresa

March 30, 2005 12:10 PM | Link to this

I also took both AP and IB courses. I found AP courses focused on memorization for the test while IB courses taught me critical thinking and consideration for the context of a problem. The IB program encompasses 6 subjects that are somewhat flexible. I leaned toward math and science, whereas AP courses are specialized to just one topic and can be taken individually.

By IB diploma awardee

March 30, 2005 12:43 PM | Link to this

I participated in the IB program in high school and thought it was great, although at the time im sure that I complained about the amount of work. Not only did I learn beyond what was taught in regular classes, it prepared me for what to expect in college. I even earned enough credits from IB in college to graduate early. I only took one AP course in addition to the IB program and I dont feel as though it was as hard, however I didnt do as well on the exam (teacher preparation was just ok). The best part about the IB program at my school was the teachers though- they prepared us extremely well for the exams and essays. we were taught to think critically, read comprehensively and become well rounded students.

By Tyler

March 30, 2005 02:51 PM | Link to this

The IB program is internationally recognized. As far as I know, AP is not. I too took AP and IB classes (I received my diploma in 1999) and I felt that IB offered a superior program, simply by the fact that it is measured by an international standard of excellence. IB focused on teaching critical thinking and looking at issues from broad views.

I was awarded the highest academic scholarship possible at the State University I went to, which I believe I achieved due much in part of the fact that I even attemped to receive the IB diploma.

I felt that classes my first two years at the University level were actually easier than the ones I took in high school. IB prepares one well for secondary education.

By georgiaswimdawg

March 31, 2005 08:57 AM | Link to this

As a former student who loaded up on AP classes, I believe that AP classes can be very challenging. To the posters who commented on AP classes being easy; it is the discretion of the teacher that results in an easy class, not the AP program. Many people I knew at other high schools had easy A’s in thier AP US History classes—but got 2’s on their AP exam. Likewise for AP Calculus AB—our class of 27 had 26 students score 5’s—and we did not have many A’s in that course.

I think that both the IB and AP programs are great for students who plan to continue their education in college (Personally, AP was a better fit for me because of my interest in politics, history, and government, and my strong disdain for science).

By Lillium

March 31, 2005 01:54 PM | Link to this

While I appreciate the scope and sequence opportunities that appear offered through the IB, AP courses are what are available to my son who is homeschooled. There are great resources online for curriculum support, online AP distance classes(see the new Georgia Elearning opportunies), and textbook publisher support help for AP education. While some of the homeschool AP distance classes may be expensive, you may want to consider looking into the options that the Georgia Elearning has to offer homeschooled students.

By IB Senior

April 1, 2005 09:43 AM | Link to this

I had a tough choice going into high school of whether to take AP or IB courses. I chose IB precisely because I am forced to develop my weaknesses. I am a better student for it, and I don’t think it wise in AP to only develop one’s strenghts.

In addition, by forcing me to focus on new areas, I’ve found a much clearer focus of what I want to study in college. While I’ve taken IB Macroeconomics and Microeconomics, I’ve found that I prefer Micro. Although I am capable of critical analysis in either area thanks to IB, I know I can still focus on the area I prefer later in college. The important thing to remeber is that this program is meant to prepare students for higher education. While AP courses can certainly help develop strong skills in areas where they are taken (I do take some), I think the demands of IB create a more rounded education needed to excel in all the areas of learning.

By Lynda Peterson

April 1, 2005 12:28 PM | Link to this

As an AP/IB Chemistry teacher, I appreciate the preparation for all of these students as they learn and prepare for these exams.

However, the superiority of the IB Program is its worldwide acceptance and asssessment standards. When one gets an IB subject assessment, they are ranked with the WORLD rather than with the U.S., which has had low rankings in world comparisons in science. Those who do well on the AP Chemistry test are certainly comparable to those who do well on IB Chemistry tests, but the comparison is not available, and the reputation is.

In addition, IB Chemistry students are judged on their lab work throughout the course with worldwide moderation, whereas AP has only the paper and pencil assessments.

The IB Diploma Program is the only way one may participate at our school, Campbell High in Cobb. We have registered a 98-100% passing rate with each of our 6 graduating classes.

Students enter the 9th grade in the program and are rigorously prepared for 2 years in pre-IB to bring them to the course level required for the IB Program. The AP students do not have this preparation, and, though they share classes, the AP students have more difficulty. The IB students have been continuously challenged to critically think in all subjects and express information through writing critically in EVERY arena. And the preparation shows.

The IB Program truly develops collegiate and professional skills that I do not see from AP. Our IB students form a comraderie that only comes with the shared annealing as they meet the challenges of courses in and out of their comfort zones.

By Christopher Smith

April 1, 2005 03:21 PM | Link to this

I think as IB programs have become more established here in the US, that US colleges have become more knowledgeable about what IB entails and more inclined to accept IB courses for college credit. As an IB teacher, I have seen the wonderful things this program offers its students, and I have had many students come back and say how well it prepared them for the demands of college (pretty fine colleges too). I have been told how IB not only taught them the self-discipline and strong study skills necessary to succeed at college, but that it taught them how to think—how to approach and solve problems from a variety of perspectives. Another thing about IB which one of the other contributors mentioned is that it creates a well-rounded student, and you have to exercise and develop, rather than hide from, your academic weaknesses. Unlike AP, where you can pick and choose the courses and exams you take, IB requires that you take rigorous coursework and exams in math, the sciences, a foreign language, English, and the social sciences. I think students learn more from having to struggle and come to terms with concepts and areas of knowledge they find more difficult than others constitutes an incredibly valuable learning experience. Watching and contributing to the intellectual, critical and social development of our IB students over the four years they spend at Campbell High School has been something that has made my job an absolute pleasure.