Get Schooled

By Jennifer

March 22, 2005 03:38 PM | Link to this

Holy crap. That’s definitely a bad day. Here’s my question, and also the reason that I support Freshmen Academies to some degree: why are 16&17-year-olds still freshmen? Maybe instead of freshmen academies & laptops for all, we can use our resources to house the screw-ups & trouble makers in their own facility. That way, they can run a military-style operation & get them in check while the “normal” kids receive an education free from kids who drag everyone else down.

By Tony

March 22, 2005 03:40 PM | Link to this

How old are freshman these days? Does FPHS commonly have freshman aged 16 & 17 ? That seems old for the grade but is probably typical for the type of thugs that assaulted the teacher. Too bad the teacher was outnumbered but idiots like these usually make sure they have superior numbers before trying anything like that.

By Jennifer

March 22, 2005 03:48 PM | Link to this

Tony,

Freshmen should be about 14 years old, & yes, they are thugs, which is why I’d like to see them isolated from the “true” freshmen.

By Cliff Mozelle

March 22, 2005 03:59 PM | Link to this

These poor children. This teacher had the nerve to tell them to move along?! This teacher should be fired! Who does he think he is? I smell a big lawsuit coming. He’ll be sued for bashing his face into this poor innocent student’s fist. School isn’t the place for this kind of behavior. And the police. Such brutality. Kids can’t be kids any more these days. So sad.

By Sal

March 22, 2005 04:01 PM | Link to this

Shame on the parents of these kids.

By melanie

March 22, 2005 04:05 PM | Link to this

the parents of these kids should be held accountable for such rude and obnoxious kids

By Martha

March 22, 2005 04:14 PM | Link to this

In most cases like this, the parents are JUST as rude, obnoxious and unruly as their demon spawn…not always…but way too many times. These kids are thugs and don’t belong in a regular school setting. Good for the teacher/school for pressing charges instead of sweeping it under the carpet and handling it with ISS, or some other ineffective consequence.

By Gordon

March 22, 2005 04:35 PM | Link to this

School children, or in this case - young adults - have absolutely no respect for authority figures, like teachers, police officers, or parents. (Parents want to be their children’s “friends” instead of a “parent”.) When I was their age, I would never have imagined talking back to a school teacher, much less put my hand in their face, or worse - like these thugs did - physically attack the teacher. That’s why I left the profession; it’s simply too dangerous.

By T. R.

March 23, 2005 08:38 AM | Link to this

What in the world is a 17 year old doing in a 9th grade class with 14 year olds??? There must be some other solution for those who are chronically behind.

I think if a child is 2 years or more older than the average age of their grade, there should be alternate programs to accomodate them.

Can you imagine how that 17 year old freshmen treated the other children in the class? And where does this go…a 20 year old senior?? I certainly wouldn’t my daughter in a class with grown men - and delinquent ones at that.

By chuck

March 23, 2005 08:40 AM | Link to this

These kinds of things drive me crazy. Just the fact that a 16 year-old has the nerve to respond to an adult authority figure like that is mind-boggling. That they further felt that they could then physically assault a teacher is beyond the pale. I think that the teacher should press charges and then sue the families of those students. This kind of stuff has got to stop.

NOTICE TO PARENTS: If you are teaching your children disdain for authority by the way you act in front of them, they are doomed for a life af failure and disappointment.

By Yolanda Darnell

March 23, 2005 09:16 AM | Link to this

Children have no respect for any adults these days. When I was in school, and that was only in 1989, we respected authority and did what we were told. We didn’t talk back or show out. These children need discipline and their parents need to teach them some respect. I don’t care what anyone says, but we as parents are failing our children. Children need to remember that they are just that…CHILDREN!! They are not grown. They had no reason to be so foolish and ignorant. Respect is respect and if they want respect so badly, they need to give it.

By C.M.

March 23, 2005 09:39 AM | Link to this

THIS IS WHERE EDUCATION IS NOW! TEACHERS ARE TEACHERS!, NOT THE PARENTS OF THESE VIOLENT DISRESPECTFUL (insert your own definition here, mine is not appropriate),AND NOT POLICE, THIS IS BEYOND PATHETIC! BUT, THIS IS REALITY. THIS IS WHO OUR FUTURE CITIZENS ARE. ULTIMATELY THIS IS WHERE TAX DOLLARS WILL GO, TO MAINTAIN THESE KNUCKLEHEADS IN PRISON. NEVERMIND THE PEOPLE THESE IDIOTS WILL HARM UNTIL THE JUDICIAL SYSTEM DECIDES TO REACT.

By Sharron

March 23, 2005 10:06 AM | Link to this

Most middle schools have many 15 year olds and a few 16 and even the occasional 17 year old. There is a no social promotion policy and no alternative rpograms in place.

By Monique

March 23, 2005 10:20 AM | Link to this

I teach in a high school setting. It saddens me that most people who make comments on educators have no clue as to what goes on during the course of a day. I am sorry that most of you DIDN’T know that a great percentage of first time ninth graders are 16 and 17 years old. When your family examples don’t have respect for others, let alone each other, how can we expect for the students to have respect. Gone are the days of “yes and no ma’am”. That respect does not exist like it did years ago. Oh and to T. R.-yes some seniors are 19 and 20 years old.

By Sonny

March 23, 2005 10:23 AM | Link to this

Maybe the law will straighten these offenders out because society sure won’t. It’s a shame this has to happen on school grounds where the students should be shielded from this pain.

By Scott

March 23, 2005 10:45 AM | Link to this

A gun found on a student at Mundy’s Mill HS, a gun was found on a student at Mt. Zion HS … a gun was found on a student at Jonesboro HS … a teacher punched and beaten by 16 and 17 year old freshman at Forest Park HS. This is why I am getting out of Clayton County and going to a smaller, quieter county to teach. CC used to be looked up at, now its looked down at and until all of these thug want-to-bes are dealt with and other is restored to the schools CC is going to lose a lot of good teachers.

By Ann

March 23, 2005 10:51 AM | Link to this

Sharron, Are you kidding me? Social promotion is alive and well in middle school. I teach middle school and have only once in 7 years seen a student repeat the grade due to failing classes. Most students who fail classes go to summer school. If they fail summer school, they usually pass on anyway. This, of course, does a disservice to the student who moves on to high school unprepared. As far as there being no alternative programs in place, you must be forgetting about alternative schools. Let me guess, you are homeschooled, but you like to comment about things you know nothing about.

By Steve Barton

March 23, 2005 10:58 AM | Link to this

Patti: This story of yours up on the AJC website and due to be in tomorrow’s paper it appears, has a typo.

Vanderlyn Elementary is referred to as “Vanderbilt” in the fourth paragraph.

The story is informative and fair and we are proud of Vanderlyn, but Vanderbilt might be an exaggeration!

By Patti

March 23, 2005 11:08 AM | Link to this

Oh my gosh, I’m so mortified!!! Thank you so much for alerting me. Unfortunately, it’s too late to catch it for print. (I think) so I will issue a mea culpa in the form of a correction. Thanks for pointing it out!

Patti

By Sharron

March 23, 2005 11:14 AM | Link to this

Ann, alternative schools are not typically alternative education programs but rather a place for those with severe discipline issues. My reference to insufficient alternative programs refers to curriculums and delivery design/format to meet the needs of underachievers, etc. As far as no social promotion, I agree that many if not most students and parents can get around that but when they don’t and a student is retained once in elementary and then once again in middle, which most systems permit, then the 8th grade gets overloaded with 15 year olds and those who turn 16 before the end of the year. BTW - I’m not from a home school background and have 31+ years experience in Georgia public middle schools.

By D.

March 23, 2005 11:31 AM | Link to this

I was a teacher in a public school in Elmira, NY, where my student, Jeremy Getman, brought 14 bombs and two guns to school one day. It was one of the most outrageous experiences I’ve had among thousands of other experiences that teachers deal with day in and day out. Yes, the person that said the average person does not know what’s going on in schools is absolutely correct. Violence against teachers and other authoritative figures is rising at an alarming rate. There is absolutely no accountability for actions. The blame game has to stop, and passing the buck of responsibility needs to stop. It is instilled in our children that they can do whatever they want with little or no consequence. We’re now just seeing our system overwhelmed where there are too many bad eggs in the bunch. As for alternative schools for these kids, that doesn’t work either. I suggest forcing delinquents, who think they are older than they are, to join the military or simply get kicked out of school altogether. Our supposed 18 year-old adults are mentally about 10 or 12 as compared to many other countries. Sure, things will get worse at first, but after a while we’ll have a society that respects education and realizes it’s much easier to make it with an education, especially now the way technology is advancing. I now teach in a private school where everything is the way it should be. Kick them out if they don’t want to learn, period! I also taught in college, and the seniors at our private school are as mature as seniors in college. Why? It’s because they know they have to act a certain way in order to succeed. By leaving terrible kids in school and feeling sorry for them you’re only wasting money and actually making them more bitter. Sure, feel sorry for them, but give them the treatment they need to learn how to act, which includes creating an environment where behavioral expectations are high and consequences follow consistently. If they don’t want to be there, let them walk! Many kids, after a year of working the drive-thru or walking the streets, will mature a great deal and be more than happy to go back to school. If not, so be it. Otherwise, let’s keep forcing 5000 or more kids into every high school and keep losing control of them and teaching them they don’t have to listen to anyone or act in a civil manner. We then spend more money maintaining prisons, courthouses, and many other facilities that end up housing these humans. I know society is starting to react, and eventually things will get better.

Thanks.

By Sally

March 23, 2005 12:59 PM | Link to this

It is worrisome that children act so frequently against not only teachers but other authority figures too. Honestly, I do not remember an incident during my high school years when a student lashed out at a teacher with anything but a wise mouth for which they were promptly punished in some way. Of course, the tide has turned with teachers taking unusual advantage of students sometimes too (sexually, throwing ‘em out windows, etc). If we understood it better, maybe we could deal with it better.

As for the age issue, my son was 19-1/2 when he graduated high school simply for the fact he had a late birthday and he was kept back in kindergarten for immaturity issues. It was the best decision we made and it was the teacher’s suggestion. Incidently, he never slugged a teacher or anyone else.

By Ms Scott

March 23, 2005 01:07 PM | Link to this

Some middle school have lost the control over there school, and the kids know this. There isn’t any order in some of the middle school. Where is the pride and self dignity in the way of how a school should be. Some of these students are picking up the worst habits of others. Parents, teachers, and the school need to work together. The school needs to be accountable for the role that they play. The environment of the school is very important. No child is perfect,nor is a child. I sorry to hear that this teacher had a very bad day, and I hope that these students receive the help and punishment that is needed to fit this crime.

By Cynthia

March 23, 2005 01:21 PM | Link to this

I was wondering how long it would take for people to start blaming the school for the students beating up a teacher. If you wonder why the school’s are having difficulty with discipline, ask any teacher who has had a parent threaten to sue them for attempting to discipline a student with detention or silent lunch. Teachers face parents who believe that their children can do no wrong, and that any mistake the child makes is the teacher’s fault. The kids know that if they blame the teacher, that the parents will believe them, and they use it. It would be really helpful if parents would do their jobs, so that teachers could do theirs.

By Jennifer

March 23, 2005 01:21 PM | Link to this

Let me say that jail would be the only safe place my child(ren) would have from me if they ever did something like this. In 1988 when I was a freshman (and yes I was only 14) there was a student in my class who struck a teacher because he had been told to stop bullying another student. The mother of the student who struck the teacher came in the next day with pictures of bruises where the teacher had grabbed the student in order to stop the student from hitting him again. She stated it was everyone else’s fault, not her son’s fault, as to why this situation happened. After many years of his mommy cleaning up his room, doing his laundry, and making sure no one offended her precious baby boy he is now 32 and still living with his mother. This is exactly what comes of children who are not taught consequences for actions. PARENTS: Please, please realize you are not helping your children by being ‘helicopter parents’ hovering around to ensure no one offends Junior. Children must endure some life pain and suffer the consequences of their actions otherwise, they will never be responsible adults.

By Bob Douglas

March 23, 2005 01:30 PM | Link to this

Well, I think that if people don’t step up and decide that teachers should be making $100,000 per year then they should just shut up. I have the future in my hands everyday and the work that I do is creating next years millionairs. Where is the just compensation. If you keep paying us like this, then don’t expect us to do much work. With my salary, I need to get Section 8 housing just so I can live comfortably…this is crazy!

By john

March 23, 2005 01:34 PM | Link to this

The quickest solution to problems with punk thugs like the ones who attacked the teacher is permanent expulsion. Some idiot will respond with “every child deserves an education” but that should be changed to “every child who wants an education, deserves an education” there are certain juvenile criminals who shouldn’t be allowed to darken the doorway of a school. They only show up to socialize, terrorize, and vandalize. If you want to waste educational resources on these hooligans then classes should be held inside the juvenile detention center. Educational staff aren’t allowed to discipline unruly students in today’s schools so, permanent explusion should be brought back in order to dispense with the so callde students that don’t want to be at school and certainly don’t want an education.

By Debi

March 23, 2005 01:46 PM | Link to this

As an educator and a parent, I can say that children appreciate structure, discipline, and concern. When students are given the opportunity to get away with such ill behavior in one setting, it will only get worse in another setting. Placing parameters between adulthood and childhood is one of the most important ways to keep children safe and in their place.

By David

March 23, 2005 01:50 PM | Link to this

This action by students does not surprise me at all..i am an 18 year veteran teacher, the last 5 in ISS. What a waste. The bottom line is this: these kids are thugs and so are their sorry parents. The parent is an overgrown version of the kid. Many of our problems stem from “no child left behind”. Well less children will be left behind if we get rid of the thugs on day one at the beginning of the school year. The kids that are “riding the fence” actually look up to the thugs. I’m sorry but education IS NOT FOR EVERYONE. It’s not for the kid who just last week stood in the gym and refused to get off his cell phone and turn it over to the teacher. He had to finish his drug deal. Children will be left behind and that is their choice. This is my last year in education unless i can find a different system that has a better caliber kid. If you need an ISS teacher email me…balddawg2@yahoo.com

By Martha

March 23, 2005 02:32 PM | Link to this

Most people should spend a week or so substituting in our schools and then they would have greater respect for teachers and others in the schools. When I taught career ed, one of the suggested activities was for the students to draw a family “career” tree. Most of my students have never had parents or grandparents who have worked and many have no clue who their grandparents are. Some of mine don’t even know who their fathers are. I hate to think where society is going to be in 10 years if things don’t change….FAST.

By Judy

March 23, 2005 02:54 PM | Link to this

As the mother of two kids - who are both A students and in the gifted program, I get tired of the schools having to deal over and over with the problem kids. These kids take so much time away from the kids who are there to learn. I can’t even imagine my kids being disrespectful to a teacher - gosh my 6th grader had to work up the courage to even approach her teachers this year.

My retired neighbor said it best - he would NEVER misbehaved like these kids do now because aside from getting in trouble at school, he knew when he got home the punishment would be even more severe. This is where the problem starts - so many parents don’t punish there children for their misbehaving. Unfortunately, all of the kids have to pay the price for a few bad apples.

By Ms Scott

March 23, 2005 03:14 PM | Link to this

Here is my point of the environment of the school. My child has never cussed to me or anyone in my family. No one in my family cuss, but the environment of the school does and that’s where this took place. This is the only place that he has chosen to try this, which is where he picked it up from. Considering that I have never heard my son cuss, if a teacher would have told me this, of course I wouldn’t have believe the teacher. This is out of my son’s character. Please understand that it’s not that a parent doesn’t want to believe a teacher, it’s just hard to believe. Teacher’s have lied too, just as students have in school. I would love for the school to discipline whenever my child does wrong. So, if a parent wishes to sue you because a child is rightfully punished, then let the parent spend their time and money doing so. I promise you that they are just blowing off steam Cynthia.

By David

March 23, 2005 03:14 PM | Link to this

amen to ann concerning sharron, lord help me…i’ve been in middle school 15 years now and social promotion is and has been the norm….i taught history for 11 years on a 5 teacher team and in those years i remember 2 kids that were held back at the request of the parents!!!!

By Tammy

March 23, 2005 03:39 PM | Link to this

I have an education degree, however I don’t work in the education field. People say to me all the time, “You should teach, especially since you have a child now the schedule would be great.” It’s incidents like this that keep me from seeking a job in the education field. Things like this, and knowing that parents back their kids up rather than the teachers, it’s a no win situation for the teacher. It’s a sad day when you have a hard time finding people that are willing to help shape the minds of our youth. I wish I had the guts, but I don’t.

By Jamaal Fuller

March 23, 2005 03:45 PM | Link to this

First i would like to preface my statement by saying that the teacher involved here was a victim and did not in any way deserve the consequences precipitated by his actions (according to the story told). But I think many responding to this have missed the point. The age of the students really plays no part in this. Those students could have easily been in their correct grade and acted the same way.
I worked in Clayton County at a high school (which I choose not to name), but suffice it to say that the public educational system is not speaking to the need and addressing the problems of Black students. Many have called them “thugs”, but God does not create a thug. God creates highly civilived males and females, and this society makes the “thug”. Many of these children desire to learn, and love school at early ages. But at a certain age, they begin to develop a disdain for school and the learning system. One reason is that they do not see positive images of themselves or their culture in the curriculum.
We, as so-called educated people, who have all of these degrees and doctorates should be able to come up with a viable solution to address this problem, other than to throw stones. When we get to the root of the problem, and then are sincerely committed to solving this problem, then we shall see change, and children whom some so loosely calls “thugs” can become respectful and contributing members of society.

By Sonny

March 23, 2005 04:16 PM | Link to this

Ok Jamaal. Go ahead. Come up with a way to fix this pervasive issue. Be committed too. In the meantime we’ll just keep putting these criminals in jail. Get real. As the teacher’s getting his butt kicked I’m sure he was thinking about how to help these future respected contributors to society.

By Susan

March 23, 2005 04:17 PM | Link to this

Jamaal, Why are you assuming that the students involved were black? The story does not mention race at all. Perhaps your personal predjudice is influencing your take on the story.

By Eli

March 23, 2005 04:42 PM | Link to this

The people who are making the rules and setting the standards our schools are supposed to go by are not educators..they are lawyers. NCLB is the product of lawyers who have no idea what they are doing to education….On another note, I would love for parents to come to school and spend some time so they can see how their kids behave…

By Jamaal Fuller

March 23, 2005 04:50 PM | Link to this

Why do I assume that the students here are Black? Because again, I worked in a Claton County High School, and have seen the statistics on population of the high schools. Besides for church, schools are probably the most segragated institutions in the nation. Plus I am real. Maybe they weren’t Black students, but being a Black man myself, and knowing how we are perceived, I would bet that they were. In response to Sonny, maybe we will respectfully disagree on this issue, but your solution does not work. Band aids do not stop the problem, and unfortuneatly jails do not rehabilitate, but instead create better criminals. Soon the far reaching effects will spill over to you and me, and we will be sorry we didn’t respond differently

By Anita

March 23, 2005 04:57 PM | Link to this

Jamaal’s comment bothers me, not because of the assumption that the students in question were black, but because of the assumption that schools are responsible to teach children to be proud of their heritage, etc. I’m a black woman who attended a Catholic school in a small Southern town. I was surrounded by white kids for 12 years. I am proud of me, of all of me, not just my blackness. In a sense, being in that environment focused on other aspects of my being that gave me a sense of self-identity, an identity that grew from strong moral values and an emphasis on my education.

I would love to see a system that valued learning above all else, and that valued each child as special, not because they’re in some protected class, but because each child is special. When you equate your specialness with government protection, you miss out on all the uniquely wonderful things you bring to the human family.

This is one of the saddest stories I’ve read.

By Jennifer

March 23, 2005 04:59 PM | Link to this

Jamaal,

When I read this story, I actually envisioned the kids as white—I guess we just pull from our own experiences. Having worked in both middle & high, I envisioned some of my thuggish former students as the culprits. Respecting & valuing education starts in the home. I don’t care how many positive programs you have in a community to “motivate” these thugs…if the parents aren’t emphasizing the importance of education, it’s not going to work.

By Scott

March 23, 2005 05:01 PM | Link to this

The day they removed the ability for a teacher or a principal to paddle a student for disrupting a classroom, fighting, etc .. is the day the education system started down the road to hell. My father was my principal in school and I can remember many a times him busting my butt at school only to have my mamma do it when I got home for getting it one at school. I have been in education for 14 years and been in more than just this school system and I can tell you the students in this system are the rudest, most disrespectful students I have ever had to deal with (and yes I am leaving here at the end of this school year). But more than likely these ‘freshman’ will get placed at the alt. school and then be allowed to enroll at one of the other CC schools next fall - without a word of what happened being allowed to be said (violation of their civil rights). The only thing that is going to fix our schools is allowing us to go back and run them like they used to be run because trust me once you have had that wooden paddle laid to your butt 7 or 8 times you think twice before acting out again.

By Hope

March 24, 2005 08:22 AM | Link to this

I must say that this incident is very shamful and unfortunately very common. I teach elementary school in a smaller county and the issues are still the same. Just yesterday we had a fight, again, and this time two Kindergarteners were hit in the process. Children that are rude, disrespectful, low achievers are the same everywhere. The parents don’t help the situation any by coming out to the school yelling and screaming with their nasty attitudes with the faculty and staff and defend these outragous behaviors. They are not limited to the big cities. As far as the children being retained this crazy mess about they can only be retained 1-2 times in elementary school is unbelievable. If the child doesn’t know the basic foundations then we are only setting them up to fail. Once they see that they are falling farther behind they begin to really act out. Pushing them through the system is only creating a bigger monster that we will have to find solutions to later. Parents! If you want us educators to be the parents, doctors, lawyers, social workers, spiritual counselors, food and clothes providers and teach your children PLEASE 1)let us do our job without your attitudes and 2)contact your representatives and fight, like you do with us, to get our checks increased so that we have some motivation (other than we love children) to keep fighting this endless battle. GOD BLESS AMERICA!!

By Dorothy

March 24, 2005 09:48 AM | Link to this

This was a very sad day. Working as an educator is a very hard job. The injured teacher is a victim and should have the support of the school system and the community.

By David

March 24, 2005 10:35 AM | Link to this

jamaal, i’m a little upset by your comments. The definition of “thug” is hoodlum, rogue…they can be black or white. I’ve been teaching for 18 years…i can say honestly that if I had to choose my best 20 students…i mean a combination of the nicest kids and kids who made good grades…probably 12 of them would be black…there are black thugs and white thugs…a white thug called me a bald headed SOB 2 weeks ago…a black thug threatened me last month…a thug is a thug…turns out there are more black thugs in my school than white thugs…as for all the people who have doctorates and masters degrees…WE CANNOT CHANGE OR REVERSE WHAT A PARENT HAS NOT PLANTED IN THESE MINDS..some we may can …but not many…these kids need the equivalent of TOUGH LOVE in our schools…lets face it, some of them will have to be allowed to stumble and fall on their face…i learned the hard way with some of my choices and i am still paying for them….God lets people stumble..it’s a natural way of learning…yes many of these kids come from generational problems dating WAY BACK…but it is ultimately the individual who is responsible for his actions..whether it be a thug or someone with a doctorate degree with a great Christian upbringing who decides to engage in child pornography on the net…i am in a school right now that has the rudest, most obknoxious kids i’ve ever been around…and guess what, the administration takes the attitude like “we just need to baby these kids and give them 5 chances because they have been down on their luck or their dad’s in jail”..which was the case of the white thug who threated me…bottom line…we are doing the kids who want to learn …and the better kids ..a diservice…and also doing the thugs a diservice by allowing them to behave the way they do without consequences…i’m outta here…out of teaching too after this year…

By David

March 24, 2005 10:41 AM | Link to this

good God Almighty Hope!!!i got shivers down my spine listening to you!!!amen sister,…if i can get $80,000 a year i may just come back…i turned in the resignation earlier today…laugh out loud at the quote “we love children”…lol…you got it together sis…david…..balddawg2@yahoo.com

By David

March 24, 2005 11:05 AM | Link to this

amen to scott too on the paddle…

By PHYLISS

March 24, 2005 11:12 AM | Link to this

I live in Clayton County and the schools have changed drasticly . I have two children in this school sysmtem and they very much love school and always had , but they even notice the difference in the past four years and how things have gotten out of hand . They come home quiet often and share with me stories how students misbehave as well as the teachers . I was bought up from the old school , so my children no whats tolerable and whats not . They still address their elders with yes mam and no sir . I notice most children these days don’t even say that to their own parents anymore . I am not their friends I am their MOTHER and thats how our relationship will stand . You can not play with children because they will take it as a weakness and use it against you . Far as the parents getting involved the school system makes it a little difficult at times , dut to problems with other disrespectful parents and students . I just pray my two through these next four years and I will be finished . We really need prayer in our homes and back in the schools . The dress codes are scandelous for the boys and the girls . They dress like street hookers and pimps and the schools should be ashamed to even let them walk through the doors of any school .And this gay and lesbian thing is sickening . They don’t even know who they are and they have the nerve to call themselves that . Even more shame on the parents that accept this out of their children . God be with us all . Black , white , Indian , Mexican , Asian , whatever .

By kf

March 24, 2005 11:37 AM | Link to this

Situations like this happen EVERYDAY in clayton county schools. This is a normal day in these schools. The administration at these schools are terrible…yeah…they may be “Dr” so and so…but if they investigate the county leaders they will find that the majority of these leaders “purchased” these degrees online. I think once the school is ran by professionals….these situations will slowly disappear.

By Vernon

March 24, 2005 11:40 AM | Link to this

The interesting point is that even though these kids (adults) were charged, they know that nothing will happen to them legally. They may be expelled for a couple of weeks, but they could care less about that. Their parents also will do nothing and they know it. Not to sound like an old fart, but if these kids had some fear in them, then their would be much less incidents like this one. I really feel for today’s teachers.

By kf

March 24, 2005 11:41 AM | Link to this

Phyllis

One of your children is probably gay. Then what?

By Rebecca Temple

March 24, 2005 11:51 AM | Link to this

I am a mother of a 31 year old son and a 15 year old son. Times are very different from then to now in our schools. It saddens my heart to know this is the norm in most cases in our schools. A product of their environment?, there are pros and cons. I do know there are teachers and coaches that can reach a child and make a difference. To these people I give my thanks, “There but for the grace of God, goes my child”

By unknown

March 24, 2005 12:20 PM | Link to this

I think that these kids have no home training. They need to get punished for what they tried to pull. The techer was doing their job and these no- good for nothing kids could not handle being discilpined. What I think they need to do is hold them down and let three people beat them up!!!

By Aisha

March 24, 2005 12:28 PM | Link to this

Whoever that was that said something about the teachers need to go to jail need to really think about what they said!!! Also, when was it ever common to have a 16 or 17 year old freshamn…NEVER!!! Somehting needs to be done and it needs to be done now. But as in most cases the children are a reflection of the parents…SOOOOO

By John

March 24, 2005 12:40 PM | Link to this

I am not an educator nor am I a parent, but I am curious.

Of the teachers that responded above that are leaving the profession, would any of you feel differently about teaching at a private school? Do you think that a school voucher program that would allow parents to choose a private school for their children versus a public school would help better educate students?

By David

March 24, 2005 01:22 PM | Link to this

john i wouldn’t mind teaching in a private school except for the benefit situation and retirement situation…many private schools do not offer insurance…i will now have to find my own insurance but that is my choice, and i will do fine…i just long for the days when i taught kids that wanted to learn and that made teaching fun…we now have a double dose of disaster…the kids and their parents who defend them…i don’t know if the voucher would help or not john…i’m willing to try anything…i’m just amazed at how parents defend these children…you know i feared my parents as much as i loved them…they taught me respect, integrity..etc; and i remember i despised my parents for riding me so hard…but i look back and i appreciate them so much more…the result…i have a daughter with a 4.0 gpa who knows she better respect adults, who has been accepted to 5 universities next fall and who is respected in my community…it’s a generational thing john and anyone of these kids can make a choice to change…as hard as it may be..it can be done….

By David

March 24, 2005 01:23 PM | Link to this

john i wouldn’t mind teaching in a private school except for the benefit situation and retirement situation…many private schools do not offer insurance…i will now have to find my own insurance but that is my choice, and i will do fine…i just long for the days when i taught kids that wanted to learn and that made teaching fun…we now have a double dose of disaster…the kids and their parents who defend them…i don’t know if the voucher would help or not john…i’m willing to try anything…i’m just amazed at how parents defend these children…you know i feared my parents as much as i loved them…they taught me respect, integrity..etc; and i remember i despised my parents for riding me so hard…but i look back and i appreciate them so much more…the result…i have a daughter with a 4.0 gpa who knows she better respect adults, who has been accepted to 5 universities next fall and who is respected in my community…it’s a generational thing john and anyone of these kids can make a choice to change…as hard as it may be..it can be done….ps…the headaches of teaching these kids that have no respect for me…outweighs the loss of insurance..i’ll pay for my own

By susan

March 24, 2005 01:29 PM | Link to this

While I fully agree that the students who did this deserve jail time, I also believe we need to address many of the personnel issues we have in our schools as well. It is so easy to point a finger at parents and students. What about the staff? What standards have we set for our teachers/administrators. What about administrators who can not or won’t speak proper english? We have an administrator in our school who recently during a parent/teacher conference told me “I be looking in the language arts class and the students be talking and not paying attentions�. HELLO!! Sorry, but this is very unacceptable. During this same parent teacher conference, which I requested due to the lack of math instruction by our math teacher, I found the new management style to be sorely deficient in the area of customer service. Here is a parent with a legitimate complaint (this math teacher received tremendous complaints from over half of the parents of students in the classes) and the management’s tactic was to attack the credibility of the student. Aren’t the students in school to learn? I have talked with so many parents who are frustrated, but afraid to speak up to their schools because they are afraid of repercussions to their children. No one should be afraid to stand up for what is right. Demanding a quality education is our right.

Thanks

By David

March 24, 2005 01:49 PM | Link to this

excuse me, susan, i think you and i teach at the same school…lol..lol…listen to this one: in a faculty meeting several months ago, our head administrator was a few minutes late and apologized…she said she was in a parent conference with the bus driver included…she told the faculty and i quote: “i’m not really gonna get into the subject of the conference but we had a girl on the back of a bus last week who gave _ _ _ _ jobs to 2 boys”!!!!!!i could not believe this!!!talk about no tact…i was floored…and every monday we stand for the national anthem….this is the introduction: “the national anthem will be SANG by”…you have a valid point…

By Kim

March 24, 2005 02:01 PM | Link to this

Susan, I’m confused. What does proper grammar have to do with students beating up a teacher?

By David

March 24, 2005 02:18 PM | Link to this

kim i can’t speak for susan but i took it to mean that schools can better handle problems when they hire better educated administrators who have common sense and act educated…otherwise you are right it doesn’t have anything to do with beating up a teacher…i think i can link the two…but i decline at this point to do that…

By David

March 24, 2005 02:30 PM | Link to this

i will say this and i’ll stop here…there is a pretty good chance that not speaking correct grammar and beating up a teacher could be linked…i would imagine the thugs who beat up the teacher probably make grammatical errors every now and then..the same grammatical errors that certain administrators make…

By Angela

March 24, 2005 03:21 PM | Link to this

David, If you have a point, make it.

By Lacy

March 24, 2005 03:33 PM | Link to this

I think the saddest thing about this story is not that it happened, but that no one was really shocked by it happening. Our schools have gotten out of hand, and there are a myriad of places to lay the blame.

I graduated from Lovejoy High in 1999, my sister in 1997. At that time, LHS probably “THE” high school to go to, or at least one of the best. Even in the six years my family was affiliated with the school, we could see the changes—and I don’t mean in racial demographics. The students (white, black, whatever) have absolutely no respect or discipline—and teachers aren’t really allowed to expect them of either. Even if they do expect it, there’s not really any recourse if they fail to recieve respect or have a discipline problem. They don’t want to learn, and don’t feel that anyone should force them to. Then the teachers end up teaching to the lowest common denominator, and those who want to learn are essentially out of luck. There’s no time to learn Shakespeare when the teacher has to take time to teach basic reading skills to kids who couldn’t care less. I worked at the ASEP for several years, and was shocked at the behaviour of the kids, the parents, and the administrators who either had their hands tied or sat on them. After writing up a child (not suspending or anything, just a letter to the parents) for cursing at me (2nd grader!), the director actually directed the parent to me (instead of backing her employee or at least being an intermediary between a parent and a high school worker) who proceeded to inform me that her son did not curse at me, though perhaps I deserved it, and that clearly I misunderstood. When I refused to change my story, she got angry, in my face yelling at me, telling me she was going to have me fired, or worse, for lying about her son. Big surprise that I heard her son cursing the next day, and saying “They can’t yell at me… my Momma will come yell at her again.” And you know what, he was right. I was told not to bother writing him up that time. I agree with most people posting who lay most of the blame on the parents. I think how well a student performs has more to do with his/her parents’ involvement than anything else. And it’s not just the education level of their parents. Neither of my parents has college experience. Both my sister and I graduated from college, and she has a great job in business, and I’m getting my Ph.D. at an Ivy. My parents were always active in our education—participating in PTA, maintaining close relationships with our teachers and administrators, and sitting down with us, making sure we did our homework. We were never paid for grades—we were taught at a young age that the education is the reward. We were also disciplined. Being disrespectful would never have crossed my mind, because no matter the punishment I received at school—it would have been a hundred times worse at home. Had I been rude, or not gotten my work done, or gotten in trouble at school, the trouble would be just beginning for me.

That being said, I do also see problems with the caliber of teachers and administrators our schools are hiring (not all, and no, I don’t think that had anything to do with this particular case). As there is a “dumbing-down” in our schools, there is also a hint of this in our educators. I had teachers in high school that used worse grammar than the students. I’ve had teachers using incorrect grammar to correct my papers. Luckily, there are still some great teachers, and my parents were interested enough to try to make sure I was in their classes. The same is true for administrators. I’ve worked with several school “officials,” and have been amazed at their language and how often they sound less educated than one in their position should be.

How annoying is it that every time something like this happens, someone has to play the “race” card [ironic in this case, as the race has yet to be reported]. Jamaal, since when is it the job of the school to specifically reinforce positive images of a culture? Sure, don’t enforce negative images. But what kind of positive imagery are you talking about? Maybe the problem is that they aren’t getting those images from their home or some aspects of society. Are you asking educators to spend valuable teaching time teaching that they shouldn’t act that way? If that’s the case, then let them have special after-school classes about “respecting themselves and others” taught by people trained to do so, and don’t waste the time of students who don’t feel that way. If “One reason is that they do not see positive images of themselves or their culture in the curriculum” is true, then what explains the actions of the white students? What about asians? It’s not only the black students who are “thugs,” any by saying this (and offering it as an excuse) you are guilty of stereotyping in a manner worse than any white person on this board has done.

By Sonny

March 24, 2005 04:05 PM | Link to this

I do have some good news! I just saved a bunch of money on car insurance by switching to GEICO.

By Ron

March 24, 2005 04:07 PM | Link to this

Cynthia, the problem with holding the parents accountable is simply this: “You don’t see a bad child without seeing a bad parent.” The parents created the problem in the first place. The children do not understand why the teachers are upset. Their comment to me are: “@#$%$#, teacher! I treat you better than I treat my parents! Why are you jumping on me?” Asking the parents for help is a total waste of time.

By Carrie

March 24, 2005 04:15 PM | Link to this

All I know is this:

It’s been 10 years since I graduated high school. Many of my friends are teachers or educators in one aspect or another. At risk of sounding like my mother, I know that if one of my classmates pulled a stunt like this, their parents would have punished them, they’d have gotten suspended, and ostracized by the rest of the school. This goes without saying that nothing like this DID ever happen. It just wasn’t fathomable.

Today, I hear horror stories from my teacher friends and on the news about kids doing things that I never considered, much less attempted. Worse yet, getting suspended is a badge of ‘honor’, anarchy is king, and the parents are too busy blaming the video game industry rather than examing their own personal failure.

In the hospital I work at, the bloodiest school fights involve girls…of all races. I remember seeing a 12-year old wounded in a rival-school gun battle a few years back who shrugged his experience off by saying, “nah, baby…it’s cool to get shot.” I see smaller, well-behaved kids not being tormented, but beaten by their classmates…because they were “bored.”

Again, I may sound like my mother…but at least I can say that. Most children…regardless of age, sex, race, or social credo…don’t have parents. They may be “around,” but never in the scope for which they were intended. We’re surrounded by near-mindless children who can’t even respect themselves, much less authority figures or fellow students.

It’s easy to take credit when your kid wins a scholarship, drives one home for the baseball team, or gets first place in the science fair. “Yes, that’s my kid. I raised ‘em like that, you know.”

Unfortunately, you never see parents of children like these outstanding students at FPHS stand up and say the same thing.

By Judi

March 24, 2005 04:34 PM | Link to this

I was also once an educator. I went into the teaching profession thinking that I was going to be educating the future leaders of the world. Once I was there, I realized that not only was I going to be educating our future leaders, but their parents also. Parents complained constantly about the amount of home work their precious freshman were having to do, but also the amount of time that was involved. They couldn’t believe that there was that much to do in Algebra that it would cut into their child’s social life. Wait a minute, are we still talking about 13 & 14 year old children. At that age I had no social life other than sports in a local rec league, that I was only allowed to play in if my grades were kept up. As an educator I wanted to be just that an educator, not a policeman, a social secretary, a surrogate parent, or a disciplinarian. However, that is what I was forced to become. I spent more time with these children in a given week than most of their parents did. They were simply latch key kids, with no home supervision. Some of the only discipline they received was in my classroom, and in the after hours math lab that I and my math colleagues developed. Yes, there were some problems. But more times than not these children tried to achieve that which they had been told was unachieveable by them. Do I think that these child “thugs” are a product of our society? Yes! Do I believe that they are on a road to self-destruction? Yes! I think that what happened at FPHS is horrendous, and these young people need to be held accountable for their actions, but in the same instance so do the adults in these children’s lives. We continually ask where are their parents? The reality of the situation is that these children have probably half raised themselves. The role models that we supply them are of overpaid athletes with bad attitudes, and little respect for their fans or others around them, and young music executives that find themselves in trouble with authority also. We as a society need to hold ourselves accountable for that which we deem as improper, untolerable, and antisocial behavior in our youth. We as adults need to ask ourselves the question: “What have I done today, this week, this month, this year, to make a difference in these children’s lives?”

By Elizabeth

March 25, 2005 09:27 AM | Link to this

As a teacher with 30 plus years experience, I can truthfully say that most students today have no respect for authority. As for the quality of teachers and administrators, I have seen quality decline drastically. When I went into education in 1970, it was one of the few choices for a bight educated woamn could do. Today women have more options and the best and brightest do not choose education. If they do choose it, they do not stay. When the last of those 1970’s teachers leave you will see the quality decline even more. If people do not start supporting teachers, not disrespectful lazy kids and their parents. the clasroom will soon be manned by babysitters with little knowledge or desire to teach. I am burned out andf I am leaving. There ar e many like me. Low pay, lack or respect and suppoet, overwhelming paoperwork, the expectation that I will work 60 or ore hours weekly just to stay caught up— forget it. No one has to do that anymore. And the best and the brightest will not do it anymore. If things do not change, public education is doomed.

By Ms Scott

March 25, 2005 09:31 AM | Link to this

Thank you Judi for your comments. After reading everyone’s comments here, I find that we are all saying the same things. We all agree that the parents, the students, and the schools are all at fault. Reader’s please give some suggestion’s on how to start making some changes in our system. Shifting the blame is not the answer, but it’s part of the problem. I would hate for any child to continue in a school system like this, and I hate hearing that so many teachers are leaving. As a parent, I will fight for you to have your salary increased, because you do deserve it and much more. Please help me by giving me positive solutions. Thanks

By David

March 25, 2005 10:43 AM | Link to this

ok angela, my point is this..alot of these problems could be alleviated if administrators would set the tone for these kids (and faculty members also) the first day of school…i am an iss teacher (formerly history and govt.)…ISS as it is used in my school is a waste of time…these kids need automatic suspension the first time they are written up by a teacher…that would send a clear message to the students and their parents…kids talk, and it would get out to the student body that suspension is the consequence of the initial 2 or 3 office referrals…i have kids in here today who have been in here 5 and 6 times this year..we are talking about regular ed. kids not special ed kids…special ed. kids can only be sent home for a total of 10 days for the school year…it’s the regular ed. thugs (black and white) that need to be removed from school early in the year…the message needs to be clear YOU CAN’T GO TO SCHOOL HERE AND BEHAVE LIKE THAT YOU WILL BE REMOVED EVERY TIME…that is my point…and i really do not understand an administrator not doing this unless their hands are tied by the “no child left behind law”..which has strict attendance policies. Lets face it..being an administrator is like being a head football coach…if you have a losing season you are the one that is blamed…so why take a chance and have a school with those kinds of problems blamed on you…if i were an administrator i’ll be darned if i’m gonna lose my job over incompetent teachers and children who wont behave….that is my point…

By David

March 25, 2005 10:54 AM | Link to this

Ms. Scott just read my last email…my superintendent has been in this county i think 12 or 13 years now…during his first speech in convocation years ago..he said something that resulted in a standing ovation…he said “there is no substitute for a strong administrator”…we need administrators who are not intimidated by students and their parents…we need someone who has the guts to get rid of the problem kids EVERY TIME they become a problem…it’s like tough love with your own children…these kids want rules, they don’t admit it…and they have rules..the problem is that there are NO real consequences for these kids…ISS is not a consequence…first of all, most teachers in schools fail to send a kid enough work to keep him busy…these kids need someone to tell them and their parents… YOUR CHILD CANNOT CONTINUE TO COME HERE AND BEHAVE LIKE THAT….i don’t think we can change the parents….the kids will just have to be put out of the school enough to realize that they need an education…right now as i see it…they are being allowed to stay in an environment that allows them to continue to behave the way they do and this effects teachers and KIDS WHO WANT TO LEARN….IT BRINGS EVERYONE DOWN…

By Susan

March 25, 2005 11:44 AM | Link to this

I agree with the statement, get rid of the problem kids, but what about the problem teachers and administrators who recieve constant complaints on their lack of teaching abilities or their terrible administrative qualities (they don’t care, their lack of support for the teachers, students or parents). I think complaints against the adults should be handled the same way they are on the students. Writeups placed in the employee’s file - progressive discipline shall be the rule for the adults as well and eventually they are no longer welcome at the school - no contract shall be awarded. I think that teachers who receive constant complaints should be evaluated more often than every year - if a teacher is not doing their job - GET RID OF THEM Immediately - No Work, No PAy- it’s not fair to the students who are trying to learn if their teacher is lazy and not doing their job. Pay the teachers who care and are TEACHING a large salary as they definetely deserve it. Fair is fair. The adults are supposed to be in charge - set the right tone and the kids and parents will come along or move along. Comments?

By Susan

March 25, 2005 11:53 AM | Link to this

Angela,

I’m sorry I wasn’t clear in my previous post. My point about the grammar, is kids will not take education seriously from someone in charge who doesn’t take education seriously enough to speak proper english. Kids notice things more than we give them credit for. When they see an administrator acting poorly or speaking poorly, they see this adult as a hypocrite and they will have not respect for their authority. Kids expect more from their adult peers and when they read about administrators/teachers who are molestors, crooks, drunks, etc. in the paper, you can rest assured they are wondering why and who has the right to point a finger at them for their behavior. Set a great example, live your life as you expect your students to and you will get the respect you deserve, otherwise you won’t get anything but contempt from these kids. If the students hear the teachers standing around gossiping (as they’re known to do) about the students and parents, they are going to treat the teachers accordingly. If you are the adult, act like one.

By David

March 25, 2005 12:02 PM | Link to this

susan you are right…i think the key is to “discipline the faculty first”…then usually everything else will fall into place….as a teacher i like to have an administrator who is strong and lets me know where i stand…discipline is the key, strong discipline for faculty members not doing their job and kids not behaving…BUT if the faculty is doing what they are supposed to do then the administration has to back those teachers 100%…it is a slap in the face to a teacher who is not supported ..and the end result is a public degrading of authority..that then results in moral problems with the entire faculty …you know as well as i do that a weak administration results in the entire machine falling apart…adults are like kids in that respect…if the faculty is not disciplined then faculty members will take advantage of the situation as would the kids….