Get Schooled

By crh

March 22, 2005 08:57 AM | Link to this

Wow- It is upsetting at how much the central office people make compared to the principals. It is also upsetting to know that my salary has decreased over the past 10 years with the cost of health care. It is equally upsetting to know that people with half my years experience make the same amount of money that I do after 30 years.

By Jerry

March 22, 2005 08:58 AM | Link to this

It is no one’s business what we earn in salary. The AJC is a disgusting newspaper. You make me ill.

By Cliff Mozelle

March 22, 2005 09:07 AM | Link to this

Yo Jerry. You’re on our payroll. So its our business. You knew that when you said yes to your job offer and showed up for work everyday. You can always quit. I’m thinking that’s probably the best thing considering your tude. There’s a reason why it’s the public’s right to know what you “earn”. See what you can do in the real world. We won’t ask you how little you make then.

By Sheri

March 22, 2005 09:13 AM | Link to this

I will never feel sorry for teachers again. Who else makes that kind of money and has so many holdiays and summers off?

By Derek

March 22, 2005 10:03 AM | Link to this

Sheri, I feel sorry for you that you simply don’t understand teachers. What other profession has to take criticism from the ones they instruct (the students), the parents, their fellow teachers, their administration, the media, and random individulas who don’t understand their work? The amount of stress on a teacher is overwhelming to say the least. What other profession is charged with the duty to ensure the future of an entire world? Without teachers, there are no doctors, lawyers, technicians, business people, or scientists. A teacher works from sun up to sun down and puts in AT LEAST a 10 to 12 hour day. The holidays and weekends are consumed by paper work and the two months of summer are a much needed break to recharge the will and repair the ego. A teacher works because a teacher cares about others. The regular classroom teacher does not earn that much money and hopes and expects the respect of the community they educate. If you want to help make a better world, then hire more teachers and pay them enough to have a happy family of their own.

By T. R.

March 22, 2005 10:18 AM | Link to this

What an eye opener. I don’t EVER want to hear anyone complaining about earning more than 35,000 straight out of college with 3 months of vacation.

And they don’t even have to be good at it, judging from the experiences we’ve had with the public school system.

By Derek

March 22, 2005 10:30 AM | Link to this

T.R. Let me explain some more facts for you. First of all, most teachers do not get three months off. A teacher in Fulton County may start off making 35,000 their first year out of college but he/she does not get a raise for THREE YEARS unless it is a state approved cost of living increase. The increase is generally only 2%. That is not much of a raise. How would you like to be frozen at your current salary for three years as the cost of living increases daily? It would be very interesting to see how you balance the needs and issues of a minimum of 130 students a day. If teachers were paid more and respected more by the community, then all the QUALITY teachers would stay in education. Not only does a teacher need to be compensated better but the physical needs of the school also needs to be increased.

By Danny

March 22, 2005 11:12 AM | Link to this

Those of you who post your ideas that teaching is a cushy 35K per year with tons of vacation are simply ignorant of the true facts. My wife teaches, and she works more hours per week than just about any other job, including time at home grading papers, filling out lesson plans, dealing with calls from parents, and going to her classroom once or twice a week for several hours at a time to reset walls, boards, centers, etc. I would estimate she works at least 55 to 60 hours a week easy (7:30am to 5:00pm plus the afterschool stuff), and gets only an average of 10 weeks off. In case you didn’t have math, that’s at least 300 hours a year more than a typical 9 to 5er puts in over a full 52 weeks! Also, her “vacation” you so desire is always interrupted by mandatory staff development, work in her classroom, and anything else boards/administrators have to comply with under state and federal law. Before you decide it’s a plum job and deserves derision — go try it for a few years.

By Lauren

March 22, 2005 11:17 AM | Link to this

It is amazing to me that someone would even suggest that teachers make a respectable amount of money. I cannot think of a more important job than that of a teacher. I also find it absurd that teachers would be to blame for the failing school systems. It is not the lack of good teachers that is to blame. It is the lack of time we have to teach. The school day is only 6 hours. Factor in lunch, recess, special areas, computer lab, library time, etc… and you will find out that we only have about 3.5-4 hours a day to actually teach. However, in that small amount of time we are supposed to teach all of the academic standards for our perspective grade level. Should we, as teachers, take into consideration that there are students in our class that have not mastered the material from previous grades. Are we supposed to remediate those students and teach them what they haven’t yet learned? According to Gwinnett County Schools, the answer is NO. We are supposed to be magicians. We are supposed to take a 5th grade student who speaks nor reads English or his/her respective language and teach this student all that he/she needs to know to pass a standardized test. If that student doesn’t pass then I as a teacher have also failed? However, what if I have taught that child to read? What if I have taught that child to write? Does that account for anything? In the educational system today, NO. It doesn’t matter how far you bring a student in 180 days. It is simply a numbers game. The more students that pass the test the more money the schools get. So the bottom line is, no, teachers don’t get paid enough. Maybe if parents were held accountable, if we were allowed to show up each day and just teach and not have to worry about cramming for a test, if we were respected as educated people and not to blame for the failing system then maybe we would be happy with our salaries. I challenge anyone who thinks that as a teacher I should be satisfied with $37,000 a year and two months off in the summer to try it. Try it for a week and let me know what you think. I guarantee I work harder in 190 days than you do in an entire year! I also earn and deserve every penny I make plus more.

By Lauren

March 22, 2005 11:20 AM | Link to this

It is amazing to me that someone would even suggest that teachers make a respectable amount of money. I cannot think of a more important job than that of a teacher. I also find it absurd that teachers would be to blame for the failing school systems. It is not the lack of good teachers that is to blame. It is the lack of time we have to teach. It is the lack of parental support. It is focusing too much on standardized test scores and not enough on actual learning. The school day is only 6 hours. Factor in lunch, recess, special areas, computer lab, library time, etc… and you will find out that we only have about 3.5-4 hours a day to actually teach. However, in that small amount of time we are supposed to teach all of the academic standards for our perspective grade level. Should we, as teachers, take into consideration that there are students in our class that have not mastered the material from previous grades. Are we supposed to remediate those students and teach them what they haven’t yet learned? According to Gwinnett County Schools, the answer is NO. We are supposed to be magicians. We are supposed to take a 5th grade student who speaks nor reads English or his/her respective language and teach this student all that he/she needs to know to pass a standardized test. If that student doesn’t pass then I as a teacher have also failed? However, what if I have taught that child to read? What if I have taught that child to write? Does that account for anything? In the educational system today, NO. It doesn’t matter how far you bring a student in 180 days. It is simply a numbers game. The more students that pass the test the more money the schools get. So the bottom line is, no, teachers don’t get paid enough. Maybe if parents were held accountable, if we were allowed to show up each day and just teach and not have to worry about cramming for a test, if we were respected as educated people and not to blame for the failing system then maybe we would be happy with our salaries. I challenge anyone who thinks that as a teacher I should be satisfied with $37,000 a year and two months off in the summer to try it. Try it for a week and let me know what you think. I guarantee I work harder in 190 days than you do in an entire year! I also earn and deserve every penny I make plus more.

By Monica

March 22, 2005 11:22 AM | Link to this

I have always been in education and am ignorant to the ways of the rest of the world. I am curious: what do other professionals earn per year? The topic of salary isn’t polite dinner conversation, so I don’t ask my non-teaching friends what they make. So, what can people in the “real world” expect to make with a college degree? How much vacation time do you get?

By Cliff Mozelle

March 22, 2005 11:35 AM | Link to this

Lauren - have another drink. Your job is guaranteed. Got that. Ever been laid off? You get what you say we get. I’ll bet you my over 100K COMMISSIONS - not SALARY - I work more than you. You may work hard (whatever that means) but I work smarter and longer. Period. What a moaner. The real world laughs at your nonsense. HA

By Sheree

March 22, 2005 12:06 PM | Link to this

Teachers have one of the most important jobs in the world! It’s just a shame that not many of them treat it as such. Most appear to be more interested in their salaries than in what their students learn. What ever happened to the teacher who couldn’t sleep well at night because her students didn’t understand some important concept? I’m appalled at just how little teachers actually care. Trying to get a decent education for a black child in any school system is like trying to get juice out of a turnip! It’s a fight every single day! Teachers have biases about who can learn, who should be allowed to learn, etc. The teaching profession needs a serious overhaul…locate people who really are interested in the welfare of ALL the children they teach. Teaching is truly one of the most important jobs in America.

By Derek

March 22, 2005 12:12 PM | Link to this

Cliff, Your explanation of the entire educational system is reduced to your smart comment that it is all about job security. If you are indeed so smart as you profess, then you would know there is an issue called surplus. If a school does not meet certain requirments in numbers, then the last teacher hired is surplused to a new school anywhere in the district. In addition, if there is no school that requires that particular teacher’s skills, then the teacher is surplused right out of a job. Your smart comments about drinking, laughing, 100K commisions, short answers, and uninformed banter simply proves that you have no knowledge of the issues.

By Kaye

March 22, 2005 12:19 PM | Link to this

It is amazing to me how ignorant people are to the hard work that teachers do. Teaching is not an easy job at all. It is just as difficult as social work, and I was previously a social worker. I thought that teaching would be a breeze. HA-HA-HA Not only do teahcers have to deal with teaching students to take a standardized test that most will fail, but we also have to deal with what the students deal with in their home. Students come to school hungry, tired, not at all prepared to be in school, undisciplined, unmotivated,ect… And actually, these are the “regular” students. As one teacher mentioned above, you have to try teaching students in about 3.5 to 4 hours per day when they are not mentally, emotionally, physically, and spiritually prepared to learn. I believe that everyone has something they would like to improve about their chosen career, especially money and time. But people, please don’t judge teachers by what you “think” their jobs really are. I beg of you to volunteer to go into the classroom and see for yourself the challenges we have to put up with. I, like many others, thought that I would have an easy career change. Didn’t happen!!! And job security, yeah right. There are teachers that get layed off or have to be transferred to different schools every year because of budget cuts or not enough money. I know many people in this position. Don’t judge…

By Cliff Mozelle

March 22, 2005 12:34 PM | Link to this

Derek the blog Poobah. Remember the topic. Teacher’s pay being a public record. I say yes for many reasons. No need to extrapolate anything about my synopsis of the whole system based on a few lines here. Teaching a thankless and challenging profession? Absolutely. Security of a job unless you really screw up bad? Absolutely. Having your pay a public record? Yup. Cuz we won’t fire you unless you really screw up - and get caught.

By Derek

March 22, 2005 12:36 PM | Link to this

Sheree, Thank you for your positive comments about how important teaching is! The topic of the blog is What Educators Earn so I haven’t really addressed the issue of who needs and deserves to be educated. The quick answer here is EVERYONE. I do agree that we need some changes in our educational system to make sure we have quality teachers and safe schools. I would also like to have more positive parental involvement. If you ask how much time and effort a teacher puts into their work week, then you will hear the response of multiple hours. A teacher that puts in long hours is a teacher that cares about his/her students. A teacher that does not care will not put in the time. A teacher is a teacher every hour and every day of his/her life.

By Brian

March 22, 2005 12:40 PM | Link to this

Cliff’s disrespect for teachers and complete ignorance of what they do is sickening and, frankly, part of the problem. How can we expect students to respect teachers when the parents do not?

My wife is a 1st-grade teacher. She works over 70 hours a week. She works during every break, including Summer break (which has been shortened to about 2 months now). She works hard, long, and smart. She has to use her intellect, creativity, education, and experience to make sure that each lesson teaches as much as possible. Ideally, the children are learning multiple skills at once throughout the day.

I am a successful lawyer educated a top law school. She is far smarter, harder working, and more talented than I am. She could do just about anything, but she teaches because she finds it rewarding. She understands that the low pay comes with working for the government and wouldn’t ask for more, but you owe it to her to provide her with the respect she deserves as a professional. Nearly anyone can be a lawyer. Very few can teach. Unfortunately, many in our society would probably think the opposite.

I do think that we should raise the pay of teachers simply to change the supply/demand dynamic. We’ll have the best teachers possible when school administrators operate in a market that allows them to select only the best and the brightest.

We also need to find other evaluation tools besides tests to help evaluate schools, reward the best teachers, and weed out the least competent. Tests often evaluate how much priority the parents place on education and cultural norms in the area more than the quality of the schools and the teachers. I do think tests have their place. A good teacher’s students will often have higher test scores than other students in her school (the scores for students of my wife and grandmother consistently exceed the rest of the grade level in the school). But comparing test scores across states, or even some counties (e.g., Fulton), is not alone an appropriate way to measure the quality of the teachers and the schools. It will do a better job of telling you how much emphasis the community places on education than anything else.

Cliff, go spend a week with a teacher. You should be able to afford the time off with your big, impressive paycheck (the fact that you posted it clearly indicates to me that you associate a person’s salary with his value). You might learn something.

I should also make clear that in rural counties teachers start at around $30k/year. And while other professionals can use the market to find the best pay and opportunities for advancement, a teacher’s college degree has a very limited monetary value that does not grow much over the course of the teacher’s career.

By Lacy

March 22, 2005 12:42 PM | Link to this

Sure, teaching isn’t an easy job. Guess what, there are lots of difficult jobs that don’t pay as well, with none of the benefits. Admit it— you get a pretty well-paying job right out of school. So you aren’t up for an individual raise for 3 years? Guess what, that means in 3 yrs you might be making the same $$ as your non-educator friends who took a $20K job out of school. You get at least 3 months off a year. Your schedule coincides with your children (if you have them). And these days, you don’t even have to be good at it! While I’ve had some really good teachers, I’ve had just as many who were awful—it’s not just that they didn’t care. Some just weren’t good educators and didn’t really know their subject that well. Heck, in Clayton County, there’s even leeway in that whole “passing the PRAXIS” thing—I mean, should we really expect educators to be able to pass a standardized test? It’s not like we require that of Doctors, lawyers, or students… oh wait… we do! Fast food workers deal with as much crap, whining, problems, get a week or two of vacation time (at best), get paid half what you do, and don’t have any job security.

I have respect for educators (not “just teachers”—I mean the type who REALLY educate) and education in general—wouldn’t be in grad school now if it weren’t for some excellent teachers. But everyone thinks their lot in life is tough. I don’t like pulling in $21K a year slaving in a lab, working 12 hr days, and weekends. But guess what—I knew what I was getting into when I started, and there are some great benefits. We all have tough jobs, so please stop the whining. You’re getting paid pretty well, especially for the economy being what it is.

By Beverly

March 22, 2005 12:47 PM | Link to this

I want to make something clear. The debate about whether teaching is a cushy job because of the off time or whether teachers spend that off time doing schoolwork is less important than this: The reason that teachers are underpaid is what they have to deal with IN THE CLASSROOM. A lot of parents let their kids get out of control and then expect the teacher to be Mary Poppins the the classroom. How about all those parents out there who charge up to the school the minute a cross word is said to your “little darling”. Too many kids have Ferris Buehler and Bart Simpson for role models.

By Derek

March 22, 2005 12:47 PM | Link to this

Cliff, I know the topic of the blog and I have simply corrected some misinformation in regard to how easy teaching is in the eyes of some. My post to you was in regard to your simplistic reply to Lauren’s heartfelt post in addition to your incorrect information about job security. I have no issue with people knowing the salary of a teacher. I had to infer your meaning because it was so quick and dismissive. The issue of being a surplused teacher has nothing to with being a screw up and getting caught.

By Brian

March 22, 2005 12:58 PM | Link to this

What is the topic of the blog? It is titled “What Teachers Earn” and contains a link to teachers’ salaries. The text of the entry merely mentions that it is public record. Therefore, it seems to me that a discussion of how much teachers should be paid is at least relevant, and would probably qualify as the primary topic of the blog.

As public employees, the salaries of educators definitely should be avaliable to citizens.

By Lacy

March 22, 2005 01:05 PM | Link to this

I see nothing wrong with it being public record… Though I did get a little antsy when I scrolled and saw my family member’s names right there. But why should it be a secret? Honestly, I think it’s a good thing—shouldn’t everyone know that school “officials” are pulling in about 4 times more than teachers, with up to $8K in “travel expenses?”

By Kristen

March 22, 2005 01:17 PM | Link to this

First of all, anyone who wants to look my salary up and work a week in my shoes, or that of any other school employee, will see that professional educators and school staff are under paid and under staffed; but of course, it doesn’t take a matter of public record to figure that out.

Addressing the comments made by others who stated they would no longer be feeling sorry for teachers who get paid 35K out of college with 10 weeks of vacation, think of it this way as well:

Some teachers do get paid as much or as little as 35K out of college. I, myself, made 32K last year. Now in terms of reality, let’s take a look at the math here. I got paid 32K for a contract over 190 days. But my pay schedule has my salary broken up not over the course of the school year (which is what my contract is for), but over the 12 month calendar year….Keeping that in mind, not only are teachers underpaid in all aspects dealing with inflation, rising health care expenses, expenses to cover classroom supplies due to a measly $50-$100 budget a year for supplies for up to 180 students, but we are ALWAYS at least 3-4 months behind in pay due to the way the pay schedule works- but somehow we also have to make the above expenses work into our salary as well. And while our governor and House of Representatives were so nice to place into effect a pay raise, some of us also didn’t qualify for the nice little 2% raise either due to a few days of when our contracts went into effect. Compared to most jobs in the private sector, teachers don’t get paid for overtime. We don’t get paid commission for nice sales that boost our paychecks, or get the chance to earn trips to the Bahamas because we made “The President’s Clubâ€? this year. We don’t get paid bonuses for staying off the NCLB Needs Improvement List or even showing Annual Yearly Progress. But then again, we don’t ask for your pity, only your understanding and acknowledging the work that we do.

For the majority of educators, we don’t teach for the money (although it would be nice), we teach for a higher purpose. If you ask any educator, they didn’t get into this profession for the money; they got into it for a more intrinsic reason than that. But I welcome anyone who wants to come in and spend a day, or possibly teach for an entire year to do so, and then we as a society will realize that we have more significant problems that we need to address with our school systems and not just the issue of pay.

By Lacy

March 22, 2005 02:09 PM | Link to this

I love the whole “we don’t get 10 weeks of pay argument.” Okay, so you make $35K for 10 months of work and then are unpaid for 2. So? $35K for 10 months of work is darn good money.

Now the budget to outfit a classroom is different. I fully agree that teachers should not have to do so out of their own pocket, and to have it end up in such a way only hurts students who don’t have generous or fairly well-off teachers.

And contrary to what some people say, most salaried workers don’t get paid overtime. That’s the thing about salaries… you don’t lose money if you work a little less, but you don’t gain if you work more. If you want them to prorate your pay, good luck. Maybe teachers should work by the hour?

If you are so unhappy with your pay, why don’t you go into this gloried Private Sector, where everyone gets wonderful benefits, cheap health care, quadruple overtime pay, and are praised constantly for work well done?

The running of the school system and the methods used in the schools are the root of the problem. Teachers complaining over pay are a symptom, not the problem. If we could fix what ails the system, maybe then teachers would not feel it necessary to complain about getting paid a pretty good salary. Yes, it’s hard work. Yes, it’s important work. But that doesn’t mean you necessarily deserve a 10% raise for having completed another year (wouldn’t that be nice!) or other perks. Here’s a perk—take thosse 10 weeks and work on a Master’s Degree. That’s a guaranteed raise right there.

By Jennifer

March 22, 2005 02:53 PM | Link to this

About the working overtime/getting summers off argument, think of it this way:

I know many salaried people in the private sector who work long hours but do not receive overtime. However, they do receive comp. time, and they often use that to take a much needed break. It’s a given that dedicated teachers work dawn to dusk everyday & weekends during the school year—I know I did when I taught. Instead of thinking of summers as vacation, think of it as scheduled comp. time to make up for the many unpaid hours they work all year.

By Stacey

March 22, 2005 03:00 PM | Link to this

As a teacher, I find it interesting that so many people who are not teachers seem to know so much about out profession. Many of the remarks posted appear to come from the same type of people (students) who make teaching difficult - those with poor attitudes.

By chuck

March 22, 2005 03:04 PM | Link to this

I’ve read with interest the comments on this blog. As a teacher with 15 years experience, I can tell you honestly that I work 60-70 hours per week for 38 weeks a year and I love it. I have 4 graduate degrees and when I finish my dissertation sometime in the next 3 years, I will have my Doctorate of Education degree. I make approximately $57,000 and at this point I am totally satisfied with that, because I love what I do. My students are great, with a few exceptions, and 97% of them passed our standardized test last year for my subject. I fully expect the same results this year. I am universally scorned as a “tough” teacher. I have high expectations, I don’t “give” students grades that they don’t earn, and I don’t play favorites. When my students leave my 8th grade social studies classes, they are ready for anything that high school can throw at them. I also don’t apologize to parents when their children fail, because I know that I did everything I could do to help them pass my class short of doing the work for them.

I think most teachers who talk about how tough the job is are right to a degree. We do have to put up with a lot, like wimpy administrators who would rather chew us out than be chewed out themselves by parents. That has changed over the years. Administrators used to filter out all the crap and handle all of that stuff in the office so that we could focus on the important stuff. My principal, who makes $85,000 a year, was complaining about having to listen to parents, and I told him not to worry about it. If they want to complain about me, let them call me…but expect me to tell them the truth about their little darlin’. I think most of us would be completely satisfied if we could just close our doors and teach our classes without interruption and with our paperwork cut by 2/3 so that we could actually have a life outside of school. It would also be nice if parents didn’t let kids miss so much school, especially for vacations, skateboard competitions, cheerleading trips, and other frivolous reasons. Having to deal with 10-12 students and their make-up work every day is sometimes a pain in the butt. It is true what they say, “stuff runs down hill”…and we are at the bottom of the hill in education. Everything takes precedence over academics. Band, Chorus, Sports, Vacation, Babysitting, Character Education, Drug Education, Sexual Harrassment Education, Bullying Education and on and on, and we still find a way to get the job done. Teachers, let’s not complain too much in this forum. Put your complaints where they count…call your state senator or representative and get involved in your craft. We can take charge of our profession by taking it out of the hands of the politicians. The way we do that is to be the best we can be while at the same time letting them know what we need to do our jobs.

By Derek

March 22, 2005 03:09 PM | Link to this

Lacy, I’m glad to know that you are so well versed on what teachers need. Let me try to clarify. The symptom of whining as you so kindly put it is a result of the educational systems/medias/govenments/parents excessive demands on a teacher. A teacher is a nurse/doctor, a parent, a brother/sister, a coach, a role model, an expert on every topic in academics, a politician, an author, a creator, a clerical genius, a guard, a shoulder to cry on, a social worker, a cheerleader, an artist, a floor show, an entertainer, a linguistics expert, and a team player. The issue of a salary is that in order for a teacher to actually BE a teacher it takes excessive effort beyond the norm. What other job requires the worker to be all things to all people? As if this wasn’t enough, we have to be fearful of a disturbed student who brings a gun into a school and kills his/her classmates, the officer on duty, and a teacher. The advice of taking a summer or three to go back to school is very encouraging. Every teacher wants to spend their off time in another classroom. I have my Masters and I love my job. I love the students and my content area. The bottom line is that those that work their tails off should be compensated. Isn’t that the American Dream as well as a Free Market? Simply pay us for the work we do. The 10% pay increase you mention as being really nice to have is what ANY business does when a worker has been at a job for a length of time. Even a low end job will give pay increases to those workers that stick with the job and work hard. If you find the concept of a raise laughable then you need to check out the Private Sector again and see that it is a business action that occurs every day.

By Tiffany

March 22, 2005 03:17 PM | Link to this

WOW! I do think this should be public knowledge since, it is our tax dollars that pay this. I actually think it needs to be in the public more, maybe those of us in the public would value our teachers, because most do the job not based on the “wonderful” money it pays. I do not have children, but I do pay taxes, and will one day have them, and I think its sad that most teachers make $42,000 or less, teaching our future with the restrictions of time provided in the classroom. To me, especially after the events this month, police officers, firemen and teachers all need a raise. Teaching our young, is the most important job there is, besides being a parent, and yet most think its a easy job, just work a couple hours a day, get the summers off and Christmas vacation, but I am sure that is far from the truth. I wish things could be different for teachers and or educators, although there is extended training for school counselors, from what I read on the list, most are in the $80,000-$90,000 range, and I am sure that is not the starting salary, but that seems a little unfair considering the demands of teaching. I hope one day soon, we the public realize what an important job teachers have, and they really need to be compensated for it, but I guess that is all politics and the cost of “free education”

By Cliff Mozelle

March 22, 2005 03:30 PM | Link to this

Most private sector workers could switch to teaching and do well at it, whereas only a few teachers could switch to the private sector and do well at it. Profit production is a whole different ball game. The teachers talk about “work a week in our shoes” but most couldn’t hang in a world where the score is kept every day.If I’m gonna duke it out every day in the rat race I wanna get PAID.

By Gene Walker

March 22, 2005 03:55 PM | Link to this

OK, we’re overpaid, underworked and dumb. Georgia has thousands of openings for teachers. Come and join us.

By lynn

March 22, 2005 03:59 PM | Link to this

I think that the salaries of everyone who works in central offices should be published in the paper along with a job description, actual hours worked and what they job would pay in the private section.

This is where the real fat lies in education — the overhead.

By Cliff Mozelle

March 22, 2005 04:12 PM | Link to this

Lynn - you’re right on with the overhead thing. Take that money, cut it in half , and give it to the teachers.

By Chris

March 22, 2005 04:17 PM | Link to this

Cliff, I believe you are in error about teachers going to the private sector and vice versa. Your whole mind set is different in education. I seem to remember the bootstrap program started by Governor Barnes. The program where anyone with a 4 year degree could attend some training courses and get a teaching certificate? What happened to the mjority of those people who attended that program? They either quit during training or after the first or second year of teaching. Teaching is a calling, kinda like preaching (coincidental they rhyme). I work in a rural county and I can provide a comfortable living for my family, but I also work 2 other jobs and I don’t take 10 weeks off in the summer to make that happen

…And I don’t have enough time to post on an internet blog 3 or 4 times in the same day. I’m sure if I made over $100,000 in commissions a year I would be working, not surfing.

By david

March 22, 2005 04:47 PM | Link to this

I teach gimme gimme wah wah

By Jim

March 22, 2005 04:51 PM | Link to this

Many teachers work hard and earn their pay. No question. But there are some problems here. 1. Some teachers don’t work so hard and the mechanism for removing these ‘bad apples’ is failing. 2. A 4 year degree in Education is simply too easy to obtain. (The reason why we have many of the ‘bad apples’) 3. Automatic salary increase for an advanced degree. A kindergarten teacher gets an advanced degree in leadership and automatically receives an increase for that same kindergarten teaching position. So we have kindergarten teachers making $60k. By the way, my wife is a former teacher and now an administrator.

By Cliff Mozelle

March 22, 2005 05:05 PM | Link to this

Hey Chris - well over $100,000 per year. And I am WORKING. But I work 7 days a week. 12 months a year. And I do have time to surf and post etc. Doesn’t take long and changes the subject from my normal number crunching and deal making. But I don’t whine about the boatload of taxes I’m paying that you don’t.

By Dee

March 23, 2005 09:26 AM | Link to this

It’s amazing how emotional this topic is. Salaries are posted. Not a big deal. The salaries in the classroom do not nearly equal what the teachers have paid in their own time, schooling, certification, and advanced degrees (especially in any liberal arts fields because degrees in English and History aren’t funded like they are in Math and Science). And just so you know, when a teacher seeks out a new job with another system or moves to a private school, the custom is to cut the years served in HALF and pay at that rate (no negotiation).

Here’s the rub: be a good parent and citizen, send your kids to school ready and prepared, and quit whining about bad teachers. Work it out with those you have conflicts. In previous years, when a kid got in trouble at school, the kid then got in trouble with the parents. Now, if a kid gets in trouble at school, the teacher is in trouble with the parents (and society now). I’m thankful for my teachers in my youth (good and bad), I’m thankful for my children’s teachers, and I’m thankful for having participated in a professional field that prepares our youths for careers of their own choosing.

By Sonny

March 23, 2005 10:31 AM | Link to this

I’m amazed that teacher’s salaries are a public record. But I’m also amazed that the huge amount of money being poured down the black hole called our public education system has such a mediocre effect on the system. And the carping about how underappreciated and overworked teachers are is an indication that this broken system is permanently flawed and will eventually crash and burn. School vouchers = the answer. Give the parents the choice for a better school system. Maybe the teachers will end up making more money with the newer, better plan.

By Shauna

March 23, 2005 11:52 AM | Link to this

Okay everyone, let’s try to calm down here. Yes, since my taxpayer dollars do pay the teacher’s salaries, I feel that I should know what they make. (By the way, I have my child in private school and I still pay the steep school tax for Gwinnett County). However, I did attend college to become a teacher and I actually finished with my Accounting degree instead. It was hard learning how to become a teacher so I am sure that it is hard to actually be one.

I am a responsible parent. I send my child to school fed, prepared (physically, spiritually, emotionally, and mentally) for her day. I talk to her teacher on a regular basis and her administrators at her school.

Teachers have it hard, but everyone job has its ups and downs. I am trying very hard to find an Accounting job that would pay me close to 35K with my degree and 5 years of experience. So if I can make it with less than that, then some of the teachers on this list should have no problem making it.

The teachers should definately being making more than the administrators and parents, we need to be more responsible and more UNDERSTANDING

By Marci

March 23, 2005 12:20 PM | Link to this

Dear Readers:

Remember that you can’t believe everything you read. My salary is posted, but it is $13,000+ lower than what I actually earn. Figure that!

Just observing

By Karen

March 23, 2005 12:27 PM | Link to this

It is more than a little disturbing to know that so many people consider an average of less than $40,000 MORE than enough pay for people who not only teach children, but often act as counselors and surrogate parents. The long-standing myth that teachers have “3 months vacation” needs to be dispelled, so that people do not continue to speak so ignorantly about what teachers truly do. In few other jobs are people expected to take frequent verbal abuse from children and their parents, take constant abuse from the public/media, take their work home every evening, and attend classes throughout the year (including those 3 months of “vacation”) to keep their education and certificates up to date. People who actually have degrees in education worked very hard for those degrees, and the nearly 1/3 of people who leave the profession after a mere three years of teaching would probably agree that teaching is far from being a “cushy” occupation. It takes a great deal of love and expertise to be a true teacher. The people who continue to post on here that teachers are overpaid and underworked are obviously very misinformed about what teachers truly do.

By A teacher

March 23, 2005 12:48 PM | Link to this

I like my job. I’m satisfied with my pay. I love the hours. (I’ve taught the same thing for 11 years and have little planning time outside of school) I don’t feel underpaid at $28+ an hour. If I worked 12 months instead of 10, my salary would be in the 70’s (not a bad income in the “real world” either) I’m grateful for insurance (far cheaper than through my husband’s job). I like my 10 sick days a year.
Yes, kids can be bad. Yes, we put up with a lot of garbage, but who doesn’t in their job? Cliff, you’re right in one regard. It is impossible to get rid of bad teachers. They bring the rest of us down, but if they make it past the first 3 years they are here forever. Admistrators are too tied up with bureaucracy to be able to weed out the bad ones. But Cliff, please understand that sales and earning commission is not for everyone. What good is that much money if you can’t enjoy it because you have no time? (A commodity far more important than money in my book) I like having time at Christmas and Thanksgiving. We travel during spring break and summer. Granted we aren’t staying at the Four Seasons, but I sure am enjoying myself and my family is too!
I’m a good teacher, but my time is my time. Dentists don’t fill teeth in their living rooms and insurance adjustors don’t assess cars in their driveways. As a salaried professional, I’m not taking work home with me either. I finish it at school or it waits until tomorrow. That has been my policy since having children and I’ve stuck with it. Sometimes I stay late; most days I leave on time.

By Cam

March 23, 2005 01:30 PM | Link to this

I agree with Marci that this salary information is not totally accurate. My salary was incorrect as listed and some others’ salaries seemed way off based on what I know as an insider in the system. Also, I have seen several people come into teaching positions from the private sector thinking it was going to be a cakewalk. Boy, were they shocked. They barely lasted the first year, and got out soon thereafter. They were amazed and overwhelmed by the amount of non-teaching work they had to do, in addition to educating the masses. So, as a person who has worked in the private sector and in public schools, I can truly say that you should walk a mile in someone else’s shoes before you snidely comment on how easily you could do their job. There are definitely perks in the field of education, as there are in the private sector. But, to belittle educators for receiving perks (vacations, etc…)while they are doing a VERY tough job is simply wrong. By the way…Who taught you to read and write?

By Diane

March 23, 2005 01:46 PM | Link to this

Teaching is a very important job. I am not a teacher, but I think that they deserve to be paid a lot more. My children are very important and special to me. They spend more time with thier teacher than they spend with me. I truely appreciate all of the teachers that I have met. Most teachers have to spend their own money on supplies because the schools do not have money. Most parents have never even been to the classroom to know what is going on. How many parents go over the classwork and homework that teacher send home with your child. If your child cannot read, look to yourself. Instead of working to afford the BMW and 4000 sq ft house, reinforce what teachers are teaching your child. And Sheree, your comment about trying to get a decent education for a black child in any school system is ignorant. My children are black and they are very successful in school. I make it a point to support my teachers and all parents should. Ultimately, raising a child is a parents’ responsibility. You have no problem with paying athletes millions of dollars every year, but you think that $37, 000.00 is too much for a teacher. Parents where are your priorities? In what city in the metro Atlanta area can you afford to live on that salary?

By Shauna

March 23, 2005 01:54 PM | Link to this

A Teacher,

I’m glad that you love your job and that you are able to spend the time with your children that you do, but not all of us are that lucky. I worked just as hard for my Accounting degree as you did for your teaching degree and I don’t make enough money to take a vacation with my children. I don’t make enough money to even send my children to a nice camp for summer. So teachers do have it easier in that aspect. You can spend time with your children when they are out of school because you are as well. Those of us in the private sector don’t get out for the summer like teachers do. I would gladly teach Accounting to High School kids but getting a job like that is not going to happen. If you don’t know someone in the school system then you’re screwed. Business teachers are rare in this state and I have tried over and over again to find a position with the school system but they just don’t exist.

So while you do put up with alot from other parents and kids, you do get time with your kids when they are out of school.

All of you teachers need to remember that!

By A teacher

March 23, 2005 02:04 PM | Link to this

Shauna, I have no complaints. I don’t envy the private sector for the very reasons you describe. If you go to www.teachgeorgia.org you will currently find 11 business ed jobs listed. Check back (especially this time of year) and they will keep updating.

By Shauna

March 23, 2005 02:29 PM | Link to this

A Teacher,

Thank you for the link. I have been to that site but I never get any feedback from anyone. They claim they need teachers but they don’t respond when they have people who are willing to do what it takes.

They have themselves to blame. I would be a great Bus. Ed. teacher but I am not getting a chance to prove that. I love children and I love Accounting. You can’t beat that.

By Vicki

March 23, 2005 02:42 PM | Link to this

I chose to teach, not because “those who can’t do, teach” but because I enjoy all the aspects of teaching. My pay is hardly the primary factor in my choice of profession. It is hard work, hardly 180 8-hour days, and very challenging and rewarding. I refuse to be put on the defensive by those who would find fault with teachers. I hope that the public supports, rather than judges or criticizes, my role in our children’s lives. Be glad that I enjoy devoting a full career to helping my students become better prepared citizens. I love my job and don’t care if you know what I make. I’d rather you care that I do my job well.

By Jay

March 23, 2005 02:53 PM | Link to this

After reading some of the comments listed, I am shocked. Many of you are looking at the world of education from the outside in. Unless you are an educators you have no idea what it feels like to enter into a classroom each day, with students who barely made it through the evening before. Do you know how it feels to face children who had no dinner last night, or what about the child who’s mother is addicted to drugs. This is my daily life. Teaching is a field that everyone must respect. Sit in a classroom one day, stand in your child’s teacher shoes, believe me it would change your view on education. I entered the field of education 4 years ago and I just received my first raise. Guess what it was only 2% and to top it off, the 2% was spread over 12 months. So please before you speak about anything, do your research.

Very Disappointed Teacher

By Josh Sheffield

March 24, 2005 01:13 PM | Link to this

I don’t know who the Cliff Mozelle guy works for, but I bet they would really be shocked at how he is belittling a profession that he knows very little about. I bet that is how he makes his commissions, by belittling his competitors. My wife is an educator who moved from the classroom to the library to escape dealing with ungrateful parents such as Cliff Mozelle seems to be, if he is a parent. If he is, I pity his children (and their teachers). Hopefully they will look to one of their teachers as a role model, and not grow up to be a greedy, self-serving waste of humanity that he seems to portray.

Who taught him to read and write? Oh I see, he taught himself… oh a “self-made” man, right. I challenge him to spend some time side-by-side with a teacher in any average school system, better yet he should go back, visit with, and thank all the teachers who cared enough to keep his pompous, arrogant butt in their classrooms.

If any teacher reads this that taught me in Fitzgerald, GA, I say thank you and I owe 90% of who I am today to those who educated me. All of us do.

Furthermore, I’d bet salary against salary that my IQ is higher than Mr. Mozelle’s.

If you can read this blog, thank a TEACHER. If you are reading it in English, thank a SOLDIER.

As Paul Harvey would say, Good Day,

Josh Sheffield Statesboro, GA

By Miss Howard

March 24, 2005 03:02 PM | Link to this

I feel sorry for the children of those who have such disdain for teachers and what they do or do not make. Do us all a favor and home school your brats.

By annette

March 24, 2005 04:20 PM | Link to this

I work at a middle school in bartow county and we have many teachers who are unprofessional and do not put their heart into their job.They are the ones that bring the system down.

By Tom Zarilli

March 29, 2005 12:43 PM | Link to this

A few things that were not addressed here regarding the vacation leave for teachers as well as salary: After 25 years of service a teacher has no more leave time than a teacher who just got out of college. Corporate employees and other government staff continue to accrue more and more leave the longer they are on a job. In addition teachers time off is fixed. This may not sound like a problem but if you want to fly off somewhere in the fall when fares are low or even go on a three or four day holiday for your anniversary you are tied to the school holidays.
In addition other than gaining additional education there is no way to increase your earnings, the best teacher and the worst teacher in a school are on the exact same salary schedule. Bonuses are also nonexistant. Until someone starts designing a way to reward merit on a salary schedule your going to have the the pay system we are stuck with.