Get Schooled

By smithy

February 28, 2005 01:01 PM | Link to this

It is absolutely essential that proper English is taught in schools, no matter what the racial makeup is of the children. Having self-esteem and “relevant” lessons will do absolutely nothing to help these children when they find themselves in the real world, looking for jobs and trying to communicate, only to find themselves turned down and eliminated from consideration due to their lack of effective and intelligent communication skills. Nobody is going to hire the self confident, relevant ebonics speaker.

By Erik

February 28, 2005 01:03 PM | Link to this

They aren’t going to have much self esteem if they can’t get a decent job later in life. Given everything else being equal, I would hire the person that speaks correctly (and by correctly I mean the way the majority of people in the business world speak).

By Ernest

February 28, 2005 01:07 PM | Link to this

Unequivocally yes! Hopefully no one will offer ‘Ebonics’ again as a solution as I believe it would subject the children to lower expectation. Having higher expectations can work. Teaching ‘business’ English can co-exist with cultural themes that help build self esteem.

FWIW, that was a ‘feel good’ story in the paper. I did take note there were only 250 children at the school and wondered in the small school size had anything to do with it. Did this necesssarily mean the class sizes are small also?

By orlando

February 28, 2005 01:25 PM | Link to this

There will always be generational and culturally distinct dialectical differences. Why do folks have a problem with urban children and ebonics, and in spanish all Spainards use a th for the c, because the king had a lisp.

Teaching them queens English is fine but….when I’m with momma nem I’m gonna talk like dem.

By Karen

February 28, 2005 01:36 PM | Link to this

Teaching me to speak clearly is one of the greatest gifts my parents and teachers gave me. Truly, no one can make us less than we are, but we can make ourselves appear to be less by the way we speak. I can speak “Southern” and slang at home, but my verbal and written business communication is clear and precise, and helps me keep a job that supports my family financially.

By seldom seen

February 28, 2005 04:02 PM | Link to this

I disagree that you can’t teach African/African AMerican History, culture & self esteem and teach correct English at the same time. Correct grammar has nothing to do with learning something relevant about one culture. I am African/African American, I grew up in a low income neighborhood, in a workling class to low income school (high school). We were taught the importance of our history, culture, and political morality, as well as the importance of speaking correctly and performing to standards because of the society we are in, which is no doubt racist. All of my sibblings as well as myself excelled, all college educated, one Yale graduate included, myself earning close to 6 figures. I do not believe European culture/history is inherently equal to civilization and intelligence. Therefore whether one learns European history and culture in school has nothing to do how intelligent, or well you speak English. That is simply an racist and imperialst, colonialist point of view. I for one believe every culture should learn something about other cultures, and histories with no one emphasis on any one in particular. This educational system however is not meant to make intelligent, well read, wise, individual thinkers respectful of all humans & life, it is rather geared toward churning out docile, obedient, spending, worker drones for the economy.

By edukate

February 28, 2005 04:35 PM | Link to this

I’m sorry, but elementary and middle schools in low-income areas (maybe they all do this, but since I teach in a low-income area, I only know of what goes on here)need to stop teaching kids how to feel good about themselves and focus on teaching the curriculum. The bottom line is this, in all of the 90/90/90 schools the one factor that comes into play every time is parental motivation. When the parents are motivated about their children’s education then the children are in turned motivated about their own edcuation…..the result, as you see, is success. If you can’t get the parents (or in most of my students cases, grandparents/aunts/cousins/”guardian of the week”) off their butts and into the schools, you won’t get their kids to succeed….why? Who is going to try to succeed at something their parents show absolutely no value in whatsoever?? I’m tired of this discussion about what to teach and what not to teach. I’ve been to many different schools and listen folks, at least in the metro area, we’re teaching the students AND the curriculum. It’s time the parents AND THE STUDENTS!!!! took some responsibility here….stop asking the teachers to raise your kids for you!!!!!!!!!

By bermira gates

March 1, 2005 10:05 AM | Link to this

You know, it is just like ebonics….if we won’t something, we are the ones to make the rules…hey this is America, land of the free (ok, nivea) www.cuwin.org Bermira Gates Executive Director of Cuwin, Inc. “Relating Education to Real Life Situations” 678-508-3214 cuwinatl@yahoo.com

By Ernest E. Blevins

March 1, 2005 10:34 AM | Link to this

I think that is a great idea to teach proper English in the school system. What a great self esteem builder it is not to be laughed at for not being able to speak proper English? I see the local news interview people on the spot all the time and have to laugh at their poor English. It drives my step son nuts for me to correct him but I do because I want people to believe he was raised with good English. The thing that drives him most nuts is when he tries to say he didn’t do something with a double negative and changes his story when he understands it is a confession. Grammar is the code to understanding our vocabulary. What if an innocent accused of a crime says “I didn’t do no crime�? If I was on a jury I’d take that as a confession because that is what it says to me. The other choice I’d have is the guy is uneducated or dumb. What choice would I have because if I was a criminal I’d confessed with “I didn’t do no crime� knowing it would be attributed to a poor education and could get off. Now fortunately my stepson is almost broken of that bad English habit.

The problem with the public schools is not the teachers, my understanding they are good and qualified. However, the problem is what they are allowed to teach is typically below what would be grade level years ago and dumbed down so that poorer (as in performance not financially) students will feel better about passing through. This is the only reason that my daughters will be home schooled and my step son is home schooled.

By Amy

March 1, 2005 11:14 AM | Link to this

I don’t see why we can’t teach both the correct business way to speak and write English, and also have kids read novels like “Their Eyes Were Watching God” or other works that use African dialect. I see nothing wrong with both. Teachers can and should stress when it is appropriate to use both—the “proper” grammar at school and business, and the dialect with their friends. I don’t see why it has to be so black and white (excuse the pun), either/or.

By Cliff Mozelle

March 1, 2005 11:15 AM | Link to this

Teach the language,pronunciation, spelling and diction etc. correctly. Schools need to teach what society decides is important, and that’s supporting yourself and your dependents and not relying on the government or the streets to support you. Once a young person is outside their environment it doesn’t take long to decifer where they’re from. If ya ax me to be pacific, the hood ain’t no place to be fillin yo head up wiff how the rest of the world is.

By Phyllis

March 1, 2005 11:15 AM | Link to this

I am getting sick of the term “dumbed-down”. Who thought of this for the “poorer” (financially, or otherwise). I was told that my child is attending a “dumbed-down” school. So does this mean that the hundreds of dollars I put into her earlier education (by the way we lived in the ghetto to afford this a private academy) is being tossed in middle school. Who is responsible for dumbing-down a school. I would have them arrested! As for proper speaking. Fortunately, I was given a great public education, therefore since I am the first teacher of my children, they have a choice to speak like their relatives when we visit and to speak properly when and where it is needed. I do not think that proper speaking will get them a job anyway because this is still the South!

By Trisha

March 1, 2005 12:12 PM | Link to this

Not all kids talk the same. I don’t think they should speak “Queen English.” It is not required, and it should not be, because this is our way of speaking to eachother. Just because we speak one way doesn’t show how smart or how stupid we are! This is our life and we should be able to speak the way we want. ~Gata

By travieza

March 1, 2005 12:20 PM | Link to this

well i dont think yall should try to teach us the queens english cuz even though yall teach us that english we still aint going to listen we are still going to talk the way we already talk and no one is ganna change that and especially with us mexicans or hispanics speak our own way and we aint ganna change you knows orale pues one more thing East Point goes all the way!!! Represting latins and eastpoint!

~Travieza~

By Monique

March 1, 2005 12:35 PM | Link to this

I am also tired of hearing the media report things pertaining to teachers not doing their jobs. Educating children starts at home. And yes, parents should teach their children the foundations of correct grammar before kindergarten. However, if you have parents that don’t know how to speak using correct grammar, that can’t happen. Even in schools that emphasize African American themes to motivate and encourage students, correct grammar should still be taught and used. Set standards at home so that when the teacher sets standards, the students are not shell shocked.

I am a high school Special Education teacher and the bottom line is…PARENTS NEED TO REGAIN CONTROL OF THEIR KIDS. THEY NEED TO BE MORE ACTIVE AND PRESENT IN THE SCHOOLS. THEY MUST BE SURE THAT THEIR ACTIONS TOWARDS EDCAUTION MATCHES THEIR WORDS.

By Greg Leathers

March 1, 2005 01:38 PM | Link to this

I am so glad that some people realize that even though teachers are responsible for a high quality education, parents are the most important part in a students’ life and learning. Too many parents neglect their childs educational needs and their behavior in class. Then, teachers are blamed because of slower progress. Many parents need to look in the mirror for someone to blame. They are the same people to blame for most of the childhood obesity problem.

By Kenyatta Bush

March 1, 2005 01:52 PM | Link to this

The Tragedy of Eurocentrism It’s really unfortunate that schools feels that Mozart and Beethoven are more important that Miles and Muddy Waters. In order for African American children to properly be educated, it must start from their own historical and cultural background. Not that of ancient Greece and Rome.
Tragically too many of your readers continue to make the mistake of thinking that the schools in California were teaching Ebonics. This could not be further from the truth. There is no more need to teach African American children to speak Ebonics as it would be to teach a native of Mexico how to speak Spanish. Education is important, it helps to shape not only our minds, but our character and values. What I fear most is that the children in public schools will begin to become alienated from the very communities in which they dwell and instead of seeing them as swelling grounds of potential, they’ll see them as places of dispair and destruction.

By neal kelley

March 1, 2005 03:15 PM | Link to this

learning to speak correct english should be a requirement. what you speak in the street should remain in the street. I do say that schools in high population of African Americans should learn an African Language. But english is a MUST! Schools in urban areas must expect a high standard from its students. We should support the teachers with salaries and equipment to make it possible. If we expect a low standard from students, do not be surprised when that is what we get!

By Shell Scott

March 2, 2005 10:43 AM | Link to this

I’m a 43-year-old white male raised in the suburbs south of Atlanta when those ‘burbs were “country”. Both my parents are country people, born and raised in and near Atlanta when anything outside Five Points was considered “country”. We speak in our familiar and comfortable Southern dialect around friends and family because we’re on common ground with home folks. When I go out into the world I automatically upgrade my diction and speech habits because not everybody is familiar and comfortable with “countryisms”. I’m able to do that largely because when I was in elementary school our speech was corrected by the teacher so we would know the proper way to speak American English (not “The Queen’s English”, the USA is not a member of the Commonwealth) whether we remembered to or wanted to speak that way all the time or not. The salient point is that in all subjects you should be taught “by the book”, and it is up to you to decide whether and how much it is necessary to adapt that “book knowledge” to Life, because I assure you Life will not adapt to the book. Those of you who’ve posted here that your speech patterns are no indicator of your intelligence are wrong. If you insist that other people bear the burden of understanding what you say, rather than making the effort to be understood by them, you will fail in more ways than one.

As for the poster who insisted that Black children have nothing to learn from a “Euro-centric” curriculum, your ancestry is rooted in Africa but you are a product of a Western, that is a Eurocentric, culture. As wrong as the people who propagated it have been at times, Western culture is still responsible for most of the greatest ideas and achievements in Human history. Whether originated, borrowed, or stolen from other cultures, the West brought it all together and made use of it. Dismissing that well-documented (warts and all) culture and history in favor of an idealized faux culture and history cherry-picked from disparate cultures on a continent that has been described by historians of all stripes as “a dog’s breakfast, riven by tribalism” is counterproductive, to say the least.

By KroyIII

March 2, 2005 11:30 AM | Link to this

There is one underlying flaw in the premise of this article. That flaw is that African American themes and correct use of the English language cannot or do not go hand in hand. I would prefer a student get the best of both worlds, which would combine proper use of English with a relevant curriculum that adds to the student’s self esteem. As a graduate of the Atlanta Public School System, a poet, author, movie producer, and financial analyst, I know this is possible.

By Larry

March 2, 2005 12:54 PM | Link to this

Quite frankly, I’ve never met a teenager who was not totally self-focused. It’s part of being that age. It’s in being encouraged to get outside of themselves, do things they don’t want to do or are not comfortable doing that they grow up and mature. One of those things is certainly learning to communicate well. A person who insists that he or she be allowed to slouch through life (whether in speech or otherwise) is not in need of a self-esteem boost but a dose of reality.

This should be a no-brainer. It’s only controversial because of the liberal social engineering that passes for education in most public schools.

By Kenyatta Bush

March 2, 2005 01:54 PM | Link to this

Education and Segregation It’s tragic when a poster feels they can tell one the origins of one’s education, particularly when that person has failed to do any research into the matter. African American’s have and continue to live in de facto segregation, so yes, on the surface it appears that we speak English and share the same traditions as the mainstream, but a more careful “groundedâ€? look will clearly make manifest the Africanisms that continue to manifest in the African American cultural space. Point in fact, the notion of Ebonics, clearly points to an African morphology. Jazz’s etymology is clearly Kongo and it’s poly-rhythmatic sensibilities do not have European origins (Imagine Beethoven attempting to play Coltrane). Sorry sir, but your analysis is incorrect, I think Wade Nobles summed it up best when he said; African Americans have “African root and American fruit.â€? There is entirely too much research, good research, that has been produced in the last five to ten years that has eradicated the notion of African American children being culture-less and drastically holding on to the vestiges of Eurocentricity.

By smithy

March 2, 2005 01:55 PM | Link to this

If the black community wants to retain its image of uneducated and ignorant people, don’t teach them proper English. That will ensure that they never get a real job, never get real respect from others in the business world, and will never have to take responsibility for supporting their own families. It will guarantee yet another generation of welfare recipients and felons.

By Monica

March 2, 2005 03:32 PM | Link to this

Hey Orlando,

I believe the word you are searching for is “momynym.” And there is something to be said for knowing the difference between “Queen’s English” and the dialect of an area, as you do. That’s why proper English needs to be taught in schools.

By smithy

March 3, 2005 09:27 AM | Link to this

http://reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=domesticNews&storyID=7784193

Here is all the proof you need that a lack of education and no direction in black youth today leads to nothing but poverty, crime and a culture of under-achievement.

By ADL

March 4, 2005 02:39 PM | Link to this

You are right travieza. We shouldn’t try to teach you English because you “ain’t ganna listen”. That was well spoken.

By the way, I will have fries with that.