Get Schooled

By GRK

February 15, 2005 03:28 PM | Link to this

Stating how many white students vs. black students graduate had no relevance to the story. No wonder our country stays divided!

By My Kids MOM

February 15, 2005 03:43 PM | Link to this

This is sad but the situation is true. I moved to Atlanta in the 11th grade from Tucson, AZ and I must say I was beyond ahead of all the kids here. I also don’t like that our kids are set on a curriculum to pass the CRCT, who cares about that test. It isn’t going to get them in College, the SAT is what counts. Put our children on the course to get the scores needed to get into the college of their choice and help their dreams come true.

Our country needs a whole new curriculum and everyone needs to be on the same page. It is sad that schools in other parts of the country are better when we are all supposed to be equal, so schools should be too.

I know parents are also part of the blame. We are all so focused on making sure our kids have their needs and some wants met but making sure that kids are at home studying and not trying to keep up with what Tina is wearing and who is sitting next to whom on the bus everything will be like it should.

It really is all on us parents to get this right. I don’t want to leave GA. I like it here but it looks like I have to add my own home curriculum along with that CRCT crap that they are pushing on my 3rd grader.

Now that is just my opinion.

By Gaia

February 15, 2005 03:46 PM | Link to this

Why just state Black and White ratios?

Does the white ratio include the Latino community, or are they separate?

Why is there a need to divide?

By ADL

February 15, 2005 03:48 PM | Link to this

It probably doesn’t matter to most kids (or parents) in Georgia that the schools are failing to educate them. Heck, NASCAR is about to start!!!!

By shannon

February 15, 2005 03:51 PM | Link to this

Of course the disparity between the graduation rates of black students and white students is relevant! How can we even begin to address the reasons as to why black students, as a whole, fail to graduate at considerably higher rates than white students if we can’t even admit it’s a problem? Burying our heads in the sand instead of facing the truth is not going to help young African-Americans understand that education is the key to escaping a lifetime of financial struggles and unfulfilled dreams.

By Casey

February 15, 2005 03:56 PM | Link to this

The article doesn’t take into account that in many of the school systems in Georgia we are leading the way in providing alternative hours school for students that did drop out but have come back to graduate later. The graduation rates only cover the kids that graduate on time but many of our drop outs are getting their diplomas on a later time frame instead. This is to be commended since it is part of the process of overcoming the culture of dropping out at 16 to get a job and being stuck in that level of employment.

By YJACKET98

February 15, 2005 04:01 PM | Link to this

Some people are posting to point out that the graduation rate was divided between black and white. It doesn’t matter whether this has relevance or not. You pointing it out is just as bad as having it in the article. The point of the article is not about color. It’s the fact the GA’s education system is horrible and needs work. We have been consistantly ranked near the bottom in education and more specifically, SAT scores since I can remember.

By Randy

February 15, 2005 04:18 PM | Link to this

There are no conservative leaning organizations in education or New England.

By Lamar

February 15, 2005 04:21 PM | Link to this

I believe that the Hope scholarship should be repealed and the lottery money should be directly used in education in addition to the state and federal funds. The lottery money could be used to increase teacher salaries and to build new schools to decrease class size. What is the use of guaranteeing a college education when they obviously will be underprepared to survive the rigors of college to begin with?

By Dustin

February 15, 2005 04:24 PM | Link to this

Give me a break. Have you ever looked at the real numbers on the SAT. If I remember correctly about 70% of Georgia high school students take the SAT. Compare that to about 8-9% of students who take the SAT in Mississippi. The numbers are very skewed. When it becomes a requirement for college prep graduates to take the SAT in all 50 states then I will worry about these mythical “rankings.”

By srfntrf

February 15, 2005 04:24 PM | Link to this

Georgia has the education system it has chosen. Time and again, the electorate votes down bond issues aimed at funding education. Ignorant, meddling, extremist faux-Christian idiots and the lowbrow demagogues for whom they buy political offices determine more about the direction of education in Georgia than bright, thoughtful, committed educators. Georgians want the best education that money can buy—as long as THEY don’t have to pay for it.

If the people in charge of this state were any dumber, they’d grow leaves. The folks who elected them are even dumber. That’s why the state education system is producing illiterate idiots.

Things don’t HAVE to be as bad as they are, but until people choose something other than ignorance, what can we expect from the education system?

By T. R.

February 15, 2005 04:28 PM | Link to this

And people wonder why we homeschool.

By Dustin

February 15, 2005 04:32 PM | Link to this

I take offense at your claim that conservative christians are to blame for the educational problems in Georgia. Nice try you liberal extremist democrat!

By Dustin

February 15, 2005 04:32 PM | Link to this

I take offense at your claim that conservative christians are to blame for the educational problems in Georgia. Nice try you liberal extremist democrat! It sounds like you are bitter about losing the elections.

By mark

February 15, 2005 04:50 PM | Link to this

49th in education in a country that’s ranked 18th worldwide. No wonder we elected and imbecile. Oops, gotta go watch Judge Judy!

By Robin

February 15, 2005 04:53 PM | Link to this

I have a senior this year and she has spent more time during her high school years first preparing to pass the Gateway, then the High School Graduation test. We need a class that is mandated for all college prep graduates that they must take and SAT/ACT Prep class for entire semmester. We need to get back to the basics and quite focusing on county to county competition.

By Thomas

February 15, 2005 05:37 PM | Link to this

No conservative leaning organizations in New England? How about the Manhattan Institute and the Empire Foundation for Policy Research in New York and Yankee Institute for Public Policy Studies in Connecticut and the Pioneer Institute for Public Policy Research in Massachusetts?

As to srfntrf’s assertion that bond issues have been voted down by “Ignorant, meddling, extremist faux-Christian idiots and the lowbrow demagogues for whom they buy political offices” is such a broad, unsupported statement as to almost not merit a response. I defy you to show that bond issues have been opposed by christians. Ignorant electorate perhaps. Meddling? Sorry, I didn’t know that voting was considered meddling. I had always considered it a right, priviledge and obligation. Or is it only meddling when someone disagrees with you?

Perhaps the issue isn’t that the people don’t want to pay for schools, but that they don’t trust politicians to spend the money the bond issues would raise. Voting for a bond issue to build new schools and finding out that the money was instead spent to upgrade athletic facilities at existing schools which need repairs to the academic facilities more than a new tennis court or track. At the end of 2002 Cobb County had approximately $202 million in bond debt outstanding. In 2003 we passed a SPLOST measure that is expected to raise $637 million over five years, which also generated an additional $60 million in state funding to be used primarily for new schools, classroom and renovations. It’s easy to have a knee-jerk reaction that says conservatives are responsible for problems in education but that’s not the issue.

Over the past few decades the idea of teaching in classrooms has become passe. We are more interested in how children feel and addressing diversity than we are in teaching english, math and science. Teachers can’t use red pens because it might have a negative impact on a students self-image. Content driven material is replaced with feel-good content which produces a happy, but poorly prepared graduate. Math classes teach how to use a calculator to solve problems but not the concept behind the problem that leads to an understanding of the issues. Parents are not involved in the education of their children, leaving it to the school.

Cobb County spends $5,374.36 per pupil on instruction but it’s test scores and student ability exceeds both Fulton County ($6,064.52 per pupil) and the City of Atlanta ($7,235.12 per pupil). The issue isn’t money, it’s commitment to education. Cobb county parents tend to be more involved and stress the value of an education.

By b. white

February 16, 2005 08:21 AM | Link to this

An answer to some of our education woes - First, stop hiring coaches (especially those with degrees in P.E.)as principals (the good ole boy regime); second, make principals give accurate evaluations of teachers; third, give accurate evaluations of principals; and fourth, at least read the lesson plans and then check to see if they are being taught. There is really little truthful evaluation coming from the top down! Money definitely isn’t the answer. Do I feel sorry for those that don’t graduate? No way! I see them in class every day!!!!!!

By Bill

February 16, 2005 08:34 AM | Link to this

Money is not the answer. We continue to throw money at public schools and nothing improves. Until parents start to care about their children’s education and school boards realize that fancy buildings and green space do not teach reading, writing and math.

By Jenny

February 16, 2005 08:36 AM | Link to this

49th that’s a good sign. I would have imagined 50th. I work in the school system I can safely say that many of the students don’t graduate 1.) Because of the Curriculum 2.)Because they have no parental guidance 3.) Because they are flat out lazy!! I attended school in the northeast and the curriculum given to teachers down here is definately lagging. In our special ed department the teacher’s try to baby the students and not push them to their limits. If students are far behind they try to put them in special education instead of making them get on task. I am appalled by the level of comptency of some students and I honestly think it is a crying shame that govt isn’t doing more about it.

By Jim

February 16, 2005 08:50 AM | Link to this

If you are disenchanted about government schools, join the homeschool crowd. Pouring more money into a failed system is not the answer. It shouldn’t cost an arm and a leg to learn any number of subjects. In fact it never did until school became another government industry. The freedom to teach your own children is yours to exercise or give away. It’s not for everyone. It involves a lot of worthwhile sacrifice.

By srfntrf

February 16, 2005 09:21 AM | Link to this

Money isn’t the only answer, but it certainly is part of the solution. I have taught in state universities where teachers were told to write their exams on the blackboard because the department couldn’t afford copy paper; I’ve taught in buildings where the ceilings falling in was a running joke among students (this at Georgia Tech, of all places). Money problems are widespread and complex, at all levels of public education, and do, indeed, involve management failures. The fact remains that the people in this state—people in Cobb county chief among them—repeatedly resist bond issues and other measures to pay for schools at all levels, from primary to higher education. That’s one reason why even at the university level, budgets throughout schools are consistently tight. I said that’s one reason—and again, school management is lousy at managing money. Lots of blame to go around.

Faux-christians not a problem? What about the idiots in—what county is it???—Cobb County arguing over evolution and its place in the curriculum? In a country where more than half the population believes the world was created in 6 24-hour days by a rather mercurial god, why do we even bother to keep schools open?

Teachers are teaching garbage to keep their jobs, for the most part. They’ve been cowed by bad administration and by misguided parents MEDDLING in the formation of the curriculum. Education schools at universities also do, INDEED, produce some hare-brained theories and methods that, unfortunately, make their way to the primary and secondary school classrooms.

We have a bad system. The public is to blame for settling for it, as bad as it is. Leaders are to blame because they’ve given more lip service than actual care to the system.

Yes, I do lay most of the blame at the feet of people who identify as conservative. They’ve been in power since Carter left office (don’t tell me Clinton was a liberal, unless you mean liberal Republican), so the social system we have now is the result of twenty-five years of conservative policy-making. The country has been flying on its right wing since Reagan came into power, so for the part administrators have played in the mess we’re in, of course conservatives bear part of the weight. But only part of it.

As I said in my previous post, the people of this state have the system they have chosen. Plenty of blame to go around—for political and educational leaders as well as for parents.

By Keith Osbon

February 16, 2005 09:22 AM | Link to this

We yanked our 6th grader out of a Gwinnett County public middle school in December because the system was dumbing everything down to the lowest common denominator. And Gwinnett is supposedly #1 out of 160 counties in Georgia, which is really scary. Now that my daughter is in a quality private school, she is challenged by the material every day and actually likes going to school. I didn’t want to have to come out of pocket for school, but I’d rather do that than watch her fall behind the rest of the world because of a broken educational system.

If public schools don’t begin challenging students, then in 50 years there will be no more public schools. Those who have the means will go to private schools, and those who don’t will sit in cheap day care all day until they are 16.

By Cliff Mozelle

February 16, 2005 09:31 AM | Link to this

Why deny the obvious differences between white and black student graduation rates. Shouldn’t black students and their parents work harder now to improve their performance? Shouldn’t underperforming white students and their parents work harder as well? Laziness will last forever. Everybody has it in them to change their lives. Don’t leave it to the government. They’ll just let you be lazy.

By T. R.

February 16, 2005 09:39 AM | Link to this

“Public school is just cheap day care.” (above) I LOVE THAT!

And just for the record, not all homeschoolers are christians.

By Jason

February 16, 2005 09:40 AM | Link to this

I do not mind the stats being stated. America has a racist and unequal educational system. If all the short people in America were placed in projects with uneducated parents, rampant drugs, systematic poverty and under-funded schools they would not be graduating either. (Its the situation that people of Color were placed in by the majority years ago, 300 to be exact, that has not been adjusted, that is causing this. The same would be true for Blue people, tall people and yes dare I say White people) As long as America does not care for all of her children, especially those that she morally wronged for 300 years, the Universe is not going to give her the success and prosperity that she deserves. Cheers to four more years of “No Child Left Behind�

By Mike

February 16, 2005 09:49 AM | Link to this

The schools need to get back to the basics. Literature (Reading), English (writing), history and arithmetic. Get rid of the feel good courses. End the Social promotions and grad inflation, either the student earned a passing grade or didn’t. We hear that so many students qualify for the Hope scholarship but drop out in the first year because they are unprepared for higher education requirements. Stop teaching “Fairness and Equality”, Life is no where near fair and not everyone is equal. Teach the children to learn. Teach them there are things they can do better than others. Teach the children competition is a good thing, trying hard to be the best might just be the goal that make kids want to learn. Some might realize since they have no sports talent, but their earned 4.0 grade average earned them a scholarship to any university and life long knowledge to build upon.

By Cliff Mozelle

February 16, 2005 09:58 AM | Link to this

Hey Jason. DUH. People make choices to throw away their lives for drugs and that culture. So what then- the rest of us have to continually bail them out, call them victimized by society, and pour more money down the bottomless pit. Personal responsibility. Change your situation. Do something. The world has “morally wronged” just about everybody on this planet. Open your eyes and ears and get a clue and quit spouting all this fluff

By PK

February 16, 2005 10:00 AM | Link to this

One of the most difficult things to figure out when discussing dropout and graduation rates is how to account for students that leave a school after or during the ninth grade and either transfer to another school in state or move out of state. If you live in a community that is highly transient, you might have as much as 30 percent of a student body move during their four high school years. (In elementary schools it can be much higher - as high as 70 percent in some schools.) The problems come when you try to establish a baseline number with which to calculate a percentage that graduates. There is not one study or statistical analysis that I have read that addresses this issue. Because Georgia, and this is especially true in some metro area counties, is a state that is experiencing a great deal of growth and population movement, this problem is exacerbated in our numbers. Also, we are a more mobile society today and embedded in statistics like graduation rate are certain assumptions about static student populations. One additional factor that affects student mobility numbers is the presence of military installations. Any community with military installations has the possibility that student transfers will take place and potentially be counted as dropouts, even though those students are in attendance in another district elsewhere. Until we can establish a more mature basis for factoring and calculating student attentance, to include such phenomenon as transfers and alternative school opportunities, we need to not be deceived into thinking that our dropout rate can be fairly compared with other communities that deal less prominently with population movement and growth.

By Darren

February 16, 2005 10:10 AM | Link to this

Money is continued to be thrown out as a cure all for all of our educational woes. Year after year more money is allocated, proposed and spent but the returns on these dollars, in the form of increased test scores, a higher national ranking and most importantly, graduates are not measuring up. If you are reading this article, there is a good d possibility that you are either a parent that takes an active and aggressive interest in your child’s education or a product of the Georgia education system, who at least learn reading and comprehension. When is personally responsibility going to be championed as the solution at all levels, from our legislators down to the parents of children in these failing schools? Please explain to me how increasing teacher’s pay will raise us from 49th. It was until just recently that teachers’ pay in Georgia was the highest in the southeast but we continue to be rank in the bottom. Parents, and dire I say again, share the greatest portion of the burden in this debilitating situation. Granted, it is with understanding society and government is not helping. Over the last 25 years of the great technological revolution the only thing we haven’t been able to improve on is how we teach our kids and that will be the greatest failure of our generation.

By AMD

February 16, 2005 10:21 AM | Link to this

Cliff Mozelle-so are you implying that all black students are underperforming?

By Scott

February 16, 2005 10:27 AM | Link to this

Being a teacher, the education of our children is not just my job, but a passion. The primary problems in my opinion are twofold. Curriculum is being changed in our state and unfortunately it is made to comply with the Federal No Child Left Behind standards. Many teachers view this Federal program as “no school left standing”. Many basic fundamentals that need to be taught are being left out to make sure things will be covered that are on standardized tests. While I agree that changes are needed, what is being done that forces teachers to “teach for the test or get busted by the feds” is just plain wrong. Now as far as the comments from Jason, the fact is that the first Africans did not arrive in America until 1619 in Jamestown and most of those became indentured servants for 7 to 9 years. Slavery was outlawed in America in 1865. That makes the “precise” time of slavery being 246 years. Slavery is wrong…no doubt, but when making catch all statements about “uneducated parents, rampant drugs etc….” is a cop out. My grandparents were both sharecroppers, but made sure their children received an education. Not all black kids come from a ghetto and not all white kids are born with a silver spoon in their mouth. If you want and education, nothing can get in your way. Now as far as the second problem, when parents begin putting their child’s education at the top of the list and get involved in their child’s education instead of making sure they make it to all the their child’s basketball games our education sytem will improve. Parents need to take the time to make it to the school’s open house to meet the teachers and see what will be taught. As I have said “If I was paid what I was worth as a teacher, the school system could not afford me.” In other words, it is impossible to put a value on learning. I do not teach for money, I teach for the love of teaching!

By Richard Terry

February 16, 2005 10:31 AM | Link to this

I agree that increased spending probably won’t make much difference. In most businesses or industries, increased spending/costs + decreased results = declining productivity. However, it’s hard to think of schools in this way because we’re talking about kids instead of sprockets or cogs.

By sw

February 16, 2005 10:39 AM | Link to this

I work in a school system, and to be honest, the problem I see in my particular school is the administrators and the teachers. I see staff who demand that students speak properly and pronounce and annunciate words correctly in cheerleading tryouts but not in class. I see teachers who try so hard to be the students’ friends that when it’s time to be an adult and discipline, the students don’t listen, thus leaving classrooms in chaos and not conducive to teaching. Will more money help these problems? I don’t think so. I also see schools so stressed on excelling at CRCT scores that they don’t teach the students the skills needed to go to high school and eventually college.

Yes, schools are understaffed. Yes, teachers are underpaid (SOME teachers are underpaid. Some don’t even deserve the salaries they get). And yes, some classes are overcrowded, and there are racial disparities in education (whoever said that point in the article wasn’t relevant was incorrect; there are racial disparities in the state of Georgia (especially between North and South Fulton County), and when differences in funding allocation affect student performance, that affects the overall “ranking” of the state).

All of these issues need to be addressed, without people saying there is one issue or one problem. Money doesn’t solve everything. Neither does student accountability. A child can only do so much. Everyone is so quick to point the finger, but it takes money, parents, children, administrators, teachers, politicians, the school boards, and the communities to make the schools better. So everyone needs to stop waiting for someone else to make the first move, and do their part to make the schools better.

By Carl

February 16, 2005 10:55 AM | Link to this

Until we decide as a country what we want our schools to do, they will never improve. Are we educating our students to be thinkers, are we training our children to be workers, or are we just supposed to be baby sitters? Are we concerned more with our children learning or are we concerned with the graduation rate? If so, then it is easy to raise the graduation rate. Just lower the standards to receive a diploma or give a diploma to every child who walks in the door. Government (our Boards of Education)responds to political winds dictated by whichever party controls the legislature. The legislature responds to the staunchest advocates (biggest loudmouths) in society. Until we as a people decide what we want our schools to do, we will have the same result. The best teachers will leave teaching and your children will be left with the ones who cannot succeed anywhere else. It does not matter whether you are white, black, Latino, Asian, or whatever, the level of instruction will decrease and thier education will suffer.

By the way, I am a teacher in a Georgia Public School that is not in Metro Atlanta.

By Mark

February 16, 2005 11:25 AM | Link to this

First of all to answer Gaia, the Latin community would not be included in the white ratio, since they are not white. Latinos are of white, black, primarily Native American, and Asian ancestry. Secondly, public education will always be lacking in Georgia as long as the state does not value educated people. It is hard to be a well rounded, educated, arts loving, history loving person and have a talk with the average person coming through this system. The states values must change first.

By Charles

February 16, 2005 12:13 PM | Link to this

Srfntrf is an utter moron. It is fun to simply throw wholly unsupported allegations into a mix and the more outrageous they are, the better. I suppose that’s how srfntrf gets her/his kicks.

There are numerous problems with education in this country, not just in this state. Most of them start with the idea of eliminating competition and trying to make sure all the students’ feelings aren’t hurt. The idea that we mustn’t single them out when they are doing lousy work, or no work at all, is not just ridiculous; it is suicidal for our society.

We need to give teachers immunity from civil prosecution and let them deal with idiots as idiots, losers as losers, and deadbeats as deadbeats. No hild left behind sounds great; but, in practice, nothing could be more unworkable.

By Charles

February 16, 2005 12:13 PM | Link to this

Srfntrf is an utter moron. It is fun to simply throw wholly unsupported allegations into a mix and the more outrageous they are, the better. I suppose that’s how srfntrf gets her/his kicks.

There are numerous problems with education in this country, not just in this state. Most of them start with the idea of eliminating competition and trying to make sure all the students’ feelings aren’t hurt. The idea that we mustn’t single them out when they are doing lousy work, or no work at all, is not just ridiculous; it is suicidal for our society.

We need to give teachers immunity from civil prosecution and let them deal with idiots as idiots, losers as losers, and deadbeats as deadbeats. No child left behind sounds great; but, in practice, nothing could be more unworkable.

By Thomas

February 16, 2005 12:14 PM | Link to this

srfntrf really should check his facts. If his “teaching” was a sloppy as his history then I know why he used to teach. Cobb County has failed to pass a school bond referendum once since 1950 (2004 annual report from Cobb County School Board). That was in 1997 and it was defeated because the board tried to push it through too quickly and without enough information about how the money would be spent and even then it received 43% of the vote. The next year the school board came back with a proposal that called for more money and detailed how it would be spent and it passed with 58% of the votes.

I also defy you to present any documentation that over 50% believe that the earth was created in six days. This was an agenda pushed by a small, very vocal, minority group of parents. No one has paid any attention to it because the result is that a sticker will be put inside the textbook, but the teachers are not changing the way they teach evolution other than to say that it is a theory rather than fact.

And parents MEDDLING in the education of their children? That is the most absurd statement that you could possibly make. Parents, not educators, nor the government bear the ultimate responsibility for the teaching and upbringing of their children. After watching the school systems go through the various fads of the week “affective education”, “brain-based teaching”, “character education”, “cognitive learning”, “constructivism”, “continuous progress”, “cultural literacy”, “democratic education”, “detracking”, “differentiated instruction”, “whole language”, “ungraded school”, and, of course, “invented spelling”. Educate has become the plaything of the academia and if parents settle for it it is their fault.

As to conservative leadership, Clinton was a liberal. It’s just that he took such a pounding over his proposed healthcare reforms that he had to develop new positions, as the American people were so opposed to his agenda. And during the terms of Reagan, Bush I and Bush II, until recently the congress was primarily democratic and the vast majority of judges were appointed by democrats. The Georgia governor, senate and house were all controlled by democrats for the last one hundred years. Liberals have consistently opposed school voudher systems that would allow parents more opportunity to move their children to better schools. Teachers unions have made it impossible to remove those that cannot teach.

As to universities, if they stop spending money on “professors” that teach one class a semester and leaving all of the work to graduate assistants then perhaps there would be more money available for the needed facility repairs. And we have public school systems in Georgia that spend one dollare for administration for every dollar that is spent on instruction. We are so overloaded with bureaucracy that there is no money left for what we really need.

As a former teacher you really should check your facts better.

By Native Atlantan

February 16, 2005 01:12 PM | Link to this

AMD- Where in Cliff’s statement, does it mention the word “all”? Where does it mention “black students”? I agree with what Cliff said and that goes for white, black, yellow and green students. I suggest you quit looking for racism and you’ll find the world a much happier place.

By Thomas

February 16, 2005 01:32 PM | Link to this

I agree with A Native Atlantan. If you are looking for bias or discrimination you will find it. But if you are looking for opportunity and education you will also find that. Over the history of this nation many people have come here with nothing and managed to get an education and a job. People from other countries come here with nothing but place an emphasis on education and hard work and soon are in the middle class. If you want to continue blaming what happened two hundred some years ago for what is happening now that’s your choice.

By Claude Mercy

February 16, 2005 01:42 PM | Link to this

Who cares about the color of the student? Worry more about where the parents are that does not care about their child that quit. WHERE ARE THESE STUDENTS? check the jails! it is not hard to find them,(knuckleheads) Parents need to get involved with their children. Teachers are not paid to raise your children. They are also not supposed to spend so much time dealing with your little discipline problem you can not handle!

By Cliff Mozelle

February 16, 2005 01:51 PM | Link to this

AMD - I’m responding to an article that contrasts black “achievement” vs. white. If the article talked about French vs. Ethiopians I would frame the response in those terms. All people have the power to get out of life what they put in. Unfortunately some public schools don’t foster an uplifting environment. As a parent I would move my child to a better school district. I think most families, where the parents give a spit about their child’s development, would do the same. No matter what their race or creed etc.

By srfntrf

February 16, 2005 01:56 PM | Link to this

For Thomas—Google the subject of attitudes on evolution, and you may be surprised at what you learn. An excerpt from ONE recent poll by Gallup on the subject:

“November 19, 2004 Third of Americans Say Evidence Has Supported Darwin’s Evolution Theory Almost half of Americans believe God created humans 10,000 years ago” —Not quite 50% according to this poll, but close. Other recent polls (I recall a CNN poll recently that showed shockingly high numbers) indicate most Americans reject scientific notions of the world’s origins.

As for the Cobb bond issue question—I recall two, not one, rejected education bond measure that Cobb voters defeated sometime in the last 10 years. Don’t have my Cobb County legislative action digest here in front of me, sad to say. Again, money is only part of the problem.

I don’t want to prattle on too long, but I can tell you as a college teacher I had to defend my grading against a football player who didn’t show up to class all semester because he was in jail for selling crack—but still wanted a B for the course—and a parent who threatened to sue me for ruining his family’s Christmas because I assigned his daughter a C. I didn’t cave in in either case, even though my administration pressured me to do so. Yes, there’s lots of baaaaad management in the school system. But plenty of the system’s consumers (the public) have some screwy ideas about how it should work, as well.

The bottom line: if the education system is to be saved, the citizenry needs to make it an ACTIVE priority second only to public health, and common sense needs to rule, not party or religious dogma.

By chuck

February 16, 2005 02:15 PM | Link to this

srfntrf, Teaching creationism won’t have one IOTA of impact on the SAT scores quoted above. Science isn’t tested on the SAT or the ACT. The only test for science is the End of Course Test, which is completely controlled by the State Department of Education. It could easily be adjusted for teaching creationism. As for your dismissal of the the 62% of us who believe in Biblical Creation (those are the actual numbers)as being uneducated, I can tell you that I know geologists, doctors, lawyers, teachers, and CEO’s of major companies that believe it as well. Most of us don’t care one way or another what you think about us. Evolution does NOT qualify as science. It takes much more “faith” to believe it than it does to believe in Biblical Creation and it more likely to qualify as a religion than a science. We actually had that debate last week and I’m really not in the mood to rehash it, especially since it has absolutely nothing to do with the topic.

I do agree with your other points. I too have had parents come to me to have grades changed. I even had one little snot-nosed punk 8th grader who asked for and recieved a transfer out of my class because “it was my fault he was failing”. The fact that he didn’t turn in 3 assignments had NOTHING to do with his grade. I get sick of those sometimes myself. Parents today spend too much time being advocates for their children and NOT ENOUGH time holding them accountable for their behavior and work ethic. I tell you one thing though, I have so many great kids who work their butts off and who take responsibility for themselves and their educations, that I can deal with the few who don’t.

By srfntrf

February 16, 2005 02:18 PM | Link to this

Sorry, folks, but I have to add this on the money issue: as a college professor, I started with a salary in the low 30k range. When I left college teaching after 12 years of fighting the lunatic system and the (for the most part)lazy students, I bounced into a corporate training job (I was recruited) making roughly twice that amount. If I were still teaching college, I’d be earning a good 30% less than I am now. That’s just plain wrong, don’t you think? And doesn’t the lousy salary scale in universities reflect what the public really thinks about education?

Money is so tight in some universities that job announcements warn, for some positions, that you can only get a teaching job if you bring your own grant money—that’s right, folks, some schools are telling people they MIGHT get a job if they bring their own salary money.

By john

February 16, 2005 02:52 PM | Link to this

As long as the black population of Georgia and the rest of the country continues to allow black students to reject education in favor of street culture, foul disruptive language instead of decent manners, and the tired old cry of racism every time they are disciplined for outrageously inappropriate behavior the black graduation rate will stay below 50%.

By Big Bri

February 16, 2005 03:04 PM | Link to this

This goes way up to Randy…. an educational point fraught with irony… Manhattan is not in New England. Score one for the Georgia schools! Woohoo!

By Debby

February 16, 2005 03:07 PM | Link to this

Hooray for John! My son is in 6th grade this year in the public school system. He tells me that most of his teachers are so focused on the kids in the class who are discipline problems that there is little time left to actually teach anything. Of course it’s the same kids over and over again. There has to be a way to remove them from the classroom to make room for those who are there to learn.

The teachers need to be given some authority to regain control of the classrooms, and not have to pander to these discipline problems above all else.

By April

February 16, 2005 03:16 PM | Link to this

I sat here and read over all of your comments. Most of you are just complaining about issues everyone knows exist, the rest of you are attacking each other. That doens’t solve anything. I was fortunate enough to graduate from high school in one of Georgia’s rural counties - by the way, there are 159 counties in Georgia, not 160. I went to school in an area where a lot of children never make it to high school, they kind of disappear after middle school and no one ever asks what happend. That’s why I stayed in school, not because my parents were interested in my education- because they weren’t, not because I had teachers that pushed me to do my best - because they didn’t, but because I wanted somthing better for my self. I graduated in the top five percent of my high school class, earned the HOPE scholarship and went to college. A lot of you mentioned eliminating the HOPE scholarship to pump more funding into local schools - with out it a lot of kid’s wouldn’t get to go to college (I’m one of them). I kept HOPE for four years and graduated in the top ten percent at UGA in four years. I had a 3.9 GPA when I got out. There are problems with the education system, but until students are willing to look around and realize they have to take control of their own future, find a way out, want something better for themselves - nothing will change.

By Bostonian

February 16, 2005 03:21 PM | Link to this

Everyone blames teachers about poor test scores. Sorry folks, it all comes to how you were brought up.Start blaming parents!

By David

February 16, 2005 03:29 PM | Link to this

49th ! Again !

99.9% of the parents reading this article are now trying to convince themselves that the lousy schools are the ones that everyone else’s kids go to. It couldn’t be their kids. Come on. The best school in the 49th state is still a lousy school!

Any private school with this kind of performance would have already been removed from the marketplace by lack of financial support. Not the government schools though. They just keep stealing through taxation and then ask for even more money as a reward for their failure. More money, more failure and the cycle continues.

Georgia parents, why do you feel that your children are only deserving of 49th or 50th? When are you finally going to realize that the government has NO intention of ever improving, nor can it ever improve? The only way your kids are ever going to get a good education is if you homeschool them or as a last resort, send them to a private school.

Haven’t they had enough of being on the losing team?

By Native Atlantan

February 16, 2005 04:07 PM | Link to this

HOPE is a catch 22! I have a relative who did not get into UGA this year. He graduated high school last year with a 3.6 GPA and scored a 1250 on the SAT. Why didn’t he get into UGA? HOPE! Yes it helps some who may not otherwise be able to afford college but is it fair that it keeps others out?

By Stan

February 16, 2005 04:15 PM | Link to this

Most of the racism in this country is practiced by blacks, specifically the so-called black leaders whose livelihoods exist as long as they can convince their people of such. Quit depending on the government. Get off your rear end. You are in control of your destiny in this country. Anybody who says different is either a leader who wants to keep you down, or a person whose destiny is to never get anywhere. If you don’t take control, you will always be controlled.

By BJ

February 16, 2005 04:19 PM | Link to this

Look people, stop beating yourselves up about why GA is 49th in graduation rates! The bottom line is if a student doesn’t want to go to school and drop out, its not the school systems fault. Well, you gotta blame somebody. Oh! I know, what about the parents! Ultimately the parents are responsible for there childrens’ education. Stop it with beating up the state of GA. (especially if you are not from here). Their are Doctors, Lawyers, Engineers, and Educators from the state of GA., educated in GA. public schools.

By Native Atlantan

February 16, 2005 04:23 PM | Link to this

April’s post makes the best point of all here. It boils down to the student’s desire to learn and succeed in life. You don’t get that from the government. You don’t get that from preparing for tests. You get it from the values your parents or other guardians set for you by example.

As for the wailing about homeschooling being the panacea for all ills… tell me how a parent with an education from a 49th state is going to dispense a better education for their own child? Puh-lease. They’re better off in daycare.

And to say “the best school in a 49th state is still a lousy school” demonstrates your home-schooled ignorance. You can’t even understand the law of averages. Economics of the Atlanta area allow for some very fine schools who test well, and few in the balance of the state.

The degree of success in the school is how the money is managed, and more importantly, how the kids are parented. If you ask your grandparents, they probably remember once upon a time when teachers were supported by parents and school managers.

By The Gecko

February 16, 2005 04:44 PM | Link to this

Hey Ms Native Atl the reason your nephew didn’t get in was a 1250sat and 3.6gpa were in the 50th and 75th mean percentile of applicants. Maybe a private school could have got him in.

By Keith Osbon

February 17, 2005 09:25 AM | Link to this

A follow up to my comment from yesterday: One of the big reasons we moved our daughter to private school was immigration. 15 out of 25 students in her homeroom did not speak English as a first language. This is not a reflection on how smart the students are (they all may be very smart), but the teachers had to slow the teaching down and over-simplify it so “no child would be left behind”.

It became apparent very quickly that 4th grade material was being revisited extensively in the 6th grade. In some classes, school had in fact turned into “cheap day care” with no homework and ridiculously easy tests. So we pulled the plug. It was difficult because my wife and I are both products of fine public schools systems elsewhere, but in this case it was a no-brainer. Georgia is far, far behind other systems in other states and it will take decades to catch up in a best-case scenario.

By Miss Tifyed

February 17, 2005 12:19 PM | Link to this

How can you say it’s not the school system’s fault if schoolchildren want to drop out! That’s like saying it’s not McDonald’s fault if the food’s so bad people won’t even eat there when they’ve only got a couple bucks. (If that were the case.)

Sure, parents play a role, too. But the school system has to step up to the plate like it does in 48 states ahead of us.

By Trae

February 17, 2005 12:23 PM | Link to this

Why the celebratory headline? I think it’s very sad that we as a state have such a low rating and have had one consistently. There is nothing to be proud of with those numbers.

Education should be a top priority. The phrase may be overstated, thus lost some of it’s impact but it’s true: “Children are our future.”

By Brynda Hiller

February 17, 2005 02:24 PM | Link to this

Being a native New Yorker I grew up in the public schools system.When I was in school back in the 1950’s and early 1960’s public school education in New York was first rate. By the early/mid 1970’s these same schools had began to spiral downward and they began to fail. And like schools here in the South there is no sure fire immediate fix for this problem but the difference between Northern states like New Jersey is not because the students there are snarter or better than there Southern counterparts. The reason why they do better has more to do with sheer economics. It costs so much to live up there and you are constantly reminded of the difference between the “have and have not’s” that it is ingrained on the conscience of parents and parents pass it on to their children. There are millions of people of people living in such a small proximity to each other. All you have to do is walk a few blocks and you go from a low rent ghetto to millionaire’s row.Anytime your rent for a studio apartment in Manhattan is $1,450 a month with utilities that run somewhere between $98-350 a month on top of the rent with no AC, no carpet, in a walk-up-in a neighborhood that is not the best and 3 blocks over there are apartments selling for $7.5 million. You become very aware of money and it’s power to affect your life.So people up North find a way to make these educational barriers work for them. Tutors and Saturday school is very popular up North. There is no bang for your buck like you have here in the South. No Mom or Dad or Auntie or Paw Paw or Nana who is going to let you live with them or pick up a bill or two for you or buy you a car. Parents in the Norh make it very clear that they expect you to pay your own way after age 18. Things are a lot harder up North which forces people to take a very hard look at their lives a lot earlier than they do here in the South. We know that the only thing that going to help you survive is if you get a decent education-which leads to higher education-which leads to very good careers-which leads to money. We know that if you don’t seize an education that you have only five choices left to you and they are: welfare, prostitution, drug dealing, jail and a minimun wage job.

By Irishbuzz

February 17, 2005 03:20 PM | Link to this

Parents, don’t blame the school system! It all starts at home. If your kids would pick up a book rather than a twinkie and the TV remote they would be smarter as well as slimmer!

By RICK

February 17, 2005 03:25 PM | Link to this

Surely you don’t believe the reason they put seperate stats for blacks and whites was to show the black kids aren’t doing as well! Personally I think 62% is just a disgraceful as 48%. Both groups should be embarrassed!

By Matt

February 17, 2005 03:47 PM | Link to this

Simple answer to a simple question. Reduce class size for every single grade (pre-k thru 12)with the maximum number of students being 13-15 and student learning will increase as will SAT scores and graduation rates.
Education is big business. Curriculum writers, politicians, book companies and others all have the “answers” and we buy those answeres every year, the product is no good. Back to the basics, with small class sizes and let teachers do their jobs. The scores will go up as well as student achievement. All we have to do is move money from all these special programs and put the dough in reducing class sizes. If you don’t believe me, just look at what we’ve been doing and tell me if that’s working!

By Getagrip

February 17, 2005 04:01 PM | Link to this

Cliff,if you think 62% is anything to be proud of,you are part of the problem.

By givemeabreak

February 17, 2005 04:18 PM | Link to this

Matt,sorry to disagree with you but I went to Cary Reynolds elementary school and graduated from a Dekalb County HS “Sequoyah” in 1977,and as far as I can remember from first grade thru high school I never had a class with less than 25-30 kids in it. I can see it like it was yesterday,5 rows,6 desks per row in every room!I made all A’s and B’s and went to college and now have a great job and career.Its a lack of discipline by the parents.In my day,they did not let kids stay in the classroom who were not interested in learning,therefore they did not disrupt time we spent in class enabling the teachers to actually teach.That and the fact that my father would whip my a* when I got home if I got in trouble at school!

By Matt

February 23, 2005 05:09 PM | Link to this

givemeabreak You said it yourself, 1977. You don’t don’t think education has changed since then. Come on…more testing, more expectations, more parents working. We know there are some bad parents, but there are good parents working who can not help there kids like the parents of our generation. I was in the same class as you in the 70’s and I work in education now. My @#% got whipped when I got home too. I’ve been in the classroom and in administration. Times have changed and trust me when I say school is big business. I’m telling you how to handle the obvious problem, the students. Teachers can handle lower student teacher ratios. Everyone knows that. The problem is money, where will it come from to pay for more classrooms and more teachers. I said from all the wasteful spending we do on new programs (which are really old programs being reintroduced again). Short term it would be costly, but long term advantages would be a better workforce and people like you who get a college education and a good job and pay more taxes to uncle Sam. I’m not sure what your solution is. You disagree, but offer no solution. Should it be we send kids home when they don’t obey in class. Yea, that worked real well in the 70’s, none of those people left school and got on our welfare system or vacationed in our criminal justice condo’s did they? Look forward to more insightful information from college educated grads like yourself.