Get Schooled

By Felicia

January 13, 2005 11:23 AM | Link to this

THANK GOD! It’s a shame how far back on the evolutionary scale we seem to be in Georgia. It’s about time people learned the difference between a “theory” and a “hypothesis”; the sticker in a science text book is the last place the two terms should be confused!

By Tim

January 13, 2005 11:33 AM | Link to this

I am very disappointed and hope the board appeals the ruling. My wife and I have two small children and are trying to determine where to place our oldest (four years old) for next year. Although I am pro-public school, it is not an easy choice anymore - we will be exploring all options.

By Erwin

January 13, 2005 11:33 AM | Link to this

It’s about time Georgia stepped into the 21st century. I think it reflects poorly on our state that in 2005, people are still treating the widely accepted theory of evolution as a “maybe.” Instead of simply writing off the possibility of evolution, maybe people should attempt to accomidate thier beliefts AND scientific realities.

By Judy

January 13, 2005 11:35 AM | Link to this

Wonderful! With so many recents steps backward in this country, its terrific that the separation of church and state is being protected!

By Heather

January 13, 2005 11:36 AM | Link to this

Finally! That level of stupidity was humiliating the whole state!

By Clint

January 13, 2005 11:37 AM | Link to this

Hooray! Georgia no longer looks quite as backwards as Alabama and Mississippi! Of course the evangelic, right- wing, republican party will surely point this out as another activist judge running amuck. Well I say thank God for activist judges. And yes, I understand the irony in that statement.

By Larry

January 13, 2005 11:40 AM | Link to this

WRONG!

I use to believe the “THEORY” of evolution until I researched it and learned. Do your homework and you too will find out some starling “FACTS”, evolution is is at the best a flawed theory.

By Melissa

January 13, 2005 11:40 AM | Link to this

Finally!! I am sure this isn’t over, unfortunately. What a great decision. Maybe we can now teach science in a science class, and leave religion for home and church, like good schools do.

By Michael

January 13, 2005 11:41 AM | Link to this

Hooray! The courts once again to the rescue of educated people. When will the ultra-conservatives stop trying to put their brand of religion anywhere and everywhere?

By Todd Wilson

January 13, 2005 11:41 AM | Link to this

I couldn’t agree with Felicia more. Cobb County is positively cro-magnon with (non-)issues like this. Pretty soon they’ll propose making gays and lesbians drink from separate water fountains. I can’t begin to say how happy I am that I live just across the border in Fulton…

By Christie

January 13, 2005 11:41 AM | Link to this

Separation of church and state does not equal discrimination of relgious beliefs. Some Christians feel that evolutionism is an atheist belief. Therfore, allowing only evolutionism in schools is discriminating against Christian belief of the origins of humans. As a consitutional right, all people have the right of freedom of religion. Forcing the particular teaching of evolutionism without giving other views as an option is discrimination against Christians and forcing the atheist view on everyone. Any scientist knows that theories cannot totally be proven correct 100 percent - including evolution. We should be more open minded to allow our children to think instead of telling them what we want them to believe.

It may be hard to understand, but I do believe in evolution, but I also believe in the fundamental right to hear both sides of the story so I can make up my own mind.

By aziolko

January 13, 2005 11:42 AM | Link to this

Get over all of it, folks. It doesn’t matter where any of us came from; focus on getting along while we’re here instead of looking for ways to increase the divide.

By Mick Rizzo

January 13, 2005 11:44 AM | Link to this

I’m very happy that this decision was made, because I have never understood the fundamentalist belief that evolution was in conflict with creationism. When one examines the authors and times in which genesis was written, it can be easily reconciled that the bible states clearly God made the universe and all things, which is a matter of faith. Evolution simply explains HOW he did it! Regardless, science should be taught in school, religion should be taught in Church.

By Christy

January 13, 2005 11:44 AM | Link to this

Felicia, it’s interesting that you began your comment with Thank God—especially considering the outcry over this sticker was just another attempt to make sure that a public belief in God is eradicated from the lives of our children. Evolution IS a theory, not a fact. While I think it is important to hear the scientific theory behind the history of the Earth and everything on it, Christian children should not have their belief in creationism dampened by school books claiming evolution is a fact. Both theories should be taught hand in hand, and in a third party view—neither should be portrayed as fact. Sticker or no sticker, if both theories aren’t being discussed in this book or this class, it’s wrong.

By Edward

January 13, 2005 11:44 AM | Link to this

What are the macro evolutionists afraid of? An open discussion of the subject will be good for all concerned. Do you think something as complex as DNA can come about via random processes? The subtitle for Darwin’s Origin of the Species is Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life. Guess who Darwin thought were the ‘unfavored” races?

By Amanda

January 13, 2005 11:45 AM | Link to this

I am disappointed that a few parents have more power in our judicial system than the vast majority. There are other “theories” about the beginning of time and Earth. I see no problem with a sticker stating that fact. Creationism is not the only alternative to Evolution. Don’t assusme questioning Evolution means you automatically support Creationism. That’s why these are theories, because although the odds may be slim, there is another possible explanation.

By David

January 13, 2005 11:45 AM | Link to this

The tone that Judge Cooper used in his ruling reveals that he has contempt for Christians. Vouchers are needed so that Christian parents aren’t forced to send their children into an enviroment which treats being Christian as a shameful thing to be hidden and expression of such beliefs if to be treated like profanity. I expect other comments here to support the decision because this is the ATLANTA Journal-Constitution not the GEORGIA Journal. I’m sick and tired of inside the perimeter thinking being forced on the rest of Georgia!

By Pat

January 13, 2005 11:49 AM | Link to this

Can any of you so called “science experts” explain how DNA happened by chance?

By Jay Honeycutt

January 13, 2005 11:51 AM | Link to this

The court has ruled - properly - that science must be taught in science classes. In Cobb is interested in teaching comparative religion, then creationism can be discussed in that class. Teach your kid religion at home, in your church and with the shining example of your life.

Whether you “agree” with evolution or not isn’t at all the point. American children are falling behind in science and evolution is the basis for all biology/life science that they will be learning in college. No matter your religious beliefs, your child needs to learn evolution theory to be able to compete in college and beyond.

By Teresa

January 13, 2005 11:52 AM | Link to this

I am very disappointed in the judges decision and I hope the school board appeals. It clearly states in The Bible that man was made from the dust of the earth and I intend on continuing to believe The Bible. I also believe that the “theory” discussion should be left up to the parents and their church and not the school systems. I am proud to say that I am a Christian and that’s how my children will be raised. Christianity shouldn’t be something you’re ashamed but instead, something you’re proud of.

By David

January 13, 2005 11:52 AM | Link to this

If voters were serious about ending this debate for good, they would take responsibility for their children’s lives, including their education, and stop demanding that other taxpayers pay for their children’s education.

The government should not be responsible for the education of children, the parents are. Get the “Government” out of schools, and take responsbility for your children’s lives. If you can’t afford to care for and educate your children, then don’t download any.

By Peter

January 13, 2005 11:53 AM | Link to this

This is a good decision. Regardless of what people’s personal beliefs are, the content of science courses should be determined by science, not personal opinion. Evolution is a well-established theory (I mean that in the scientific way, not the layman’s way) with a lot of data to back it up and none to refute it.

It’s what happened and children of creationists should learn it the same way that children of white supremicists should learn about Martin Luther King. If parent’s want to teach their kids that God created us 6,000 years ago or that the human race was seeded by aliens, that’s their choice, but tax dollars shouldn’t be spent towards these unproven theories.

By pam

January 13, 2005 11:53 AM | Link to this

First, several scholarly “evolutionaries” have set out to prove evolution, only to come up, not only empty handed, but firm Christian believers. Secondly, and more important, we must remember it is not the city or governments job to teach our children this most important lesson, but ours as parents. Yes, we want our kids to be free-thinkers, but it IS our job to lead them in the right direction!

By Rob

January 13, 2005 11:56 AM | Link to this

I disagree with the decision. Theory can’t be proven fact. However, in Science terms, Laws can. There is distinction between the Law of Gravity and the Theory of Evolution.

I fail to see how this sticker promotes Creationism or Intelligent Design Theory (Another Theory regarding origins of life). It just encourages students to approach the Theory analytically and to investigate it for themselves. If we encouraged our students to do this with more Scientific Theories (among other Theories), our Public Schools may not be in such bad shape. Our schools and government just want our Students to listen like robots and regurgitate what they’ve learned. Well, that my friends is not an education. That is called brainwashing.

I do believe that evolution ocurred, but all the sticker did was promote an analytical approach to science(and I emphasize)Theory.

By William

January 13, 2005 11:56 AM | Link to this

It’s about time. Science’s role is to explain the “hows” of the world—its physical aspects which are demonstrably true. Its teaching should stay absolutely philosophically neutral. Religion, on the other hand, tells us “why” and imparts meaning, and doesn’t concern itself with genetics or botany or cellular division. There’s nothing more destructive to the educational process than confusing these two very distinct, and equally crucial, modes of inquiry. The court’s decision will disambiguate these boundaries in the minds of local students. Kudos.

By Martial toulouse

January 13, 2005 11:57 AM | Link to this

Wonderful! May smart justice prevail!

By Christy

January 13, 2005 11:57 AM | Link to this

You’re right Jay, they need to learn the evolution theory at school, but they also need to learn the other theories so they can make their own educated decision. If they’re only presented one option, it’s the only one they’ll believe. It’s all a matter of presentation and inclusion.

By Ken

January 13, 2005 11:58 AM | Link to this

One word suffices: Cobblodytes!

By Mick Rizzo

January 13, 2005 11:58 AM | Link to this

P.S. Since we are talking about a science text, is there any scientific evidence of creationism??
Genesis accounts for creatures of the land and sea. I’m curious why God failed to mention the dinosaurs and skipped right to the animals that did not exist until millions of years later??

By Michael

January 13, 2005 11:59 AM | Link to this

So nice to hear that ignorance lost for a change - especially in this state! Unfortunately, I’m sure this is a fluke.

Parents - If you want to teach Creationism then by all means, do so at home and at your place of worship. Public schools are not the place for teaching or alluding to religious beliefs.

In the broader sense, if this country could follow its own laws and really separate church from state, we’d be a much happier, kinder, progressive and tolerant nation. Remember why this country was founded in the first place - to escape religious tyranny!

By Michael

January 13, 2005 11:59 AM | Link to this

If you believe everything in the Bible to be fact, I’ve got some ocean-front property in Colorado you might be interested in.

Some of you hawking on “just a theory” might want to re-read the AJC story. Scientific theory is something that has been proven with facts over the course of time. Theories are open to change when new facts are discovered, but they are hardly the flimsy ideas some of you make them out to be.

By Paula

January 13, 2005 12:03 PM | Link to this

There is coming a day when everyone will have to stand before their Creator and there won’t be any questions about evolution.

By bon

January 13, 2005 12:05 PM | Link to this

I think it’s a relief to know that common sense is prevailing in Georgia. The term “theory”, as used in science, does not mean that it’s up in the air. That would be a “hypothesis”. Theories are solidly researched and backed up with scientific evidence. I don’t see why some Christians feel the need to teach their children that their religion exempts them from scientific fact.

By Darwin

January 13, 2005 12:05 PM | Link to this

Nevermind the schools are crowded, teachers are grossly underpaid, and kids are being shuffled through the system uneducated.

Lets all focus our attention on this ridiculously insignificant detail. It’s a theory for Christ’s sake!!

By Larry

January 13, 2005 12:07 PM | Link to this

Evolution is a theory, one with huge gaping holes in it. Holes that those who are truly interested in biology should be made aware of. Holes too that those truly interested in scientific truth rather than ideology would not be afraid to mention.

By Julie

January 13, 2005 12:09 PM | Link to this

Finally -a move in the RIGHT direction for Georgia!!! I’m a native here and have become constantly embarrassed by our backwards government and nationally known cases like this. If you want to teach your child that God created it all in 6 days and rested on the 7th -then do it at HOME and at CHURCH where God and theories related to God belong! Science and scientific theories are what belong in our schools.

By Mike

January 13, 2005 12:11 PM | Link to this

Read the “Case for a creator” by Lee Strobble. He clearly shows that the theory of evolution is coming apart.

By Robert

January 13, 2005 12:13 PM | Link to this

The judge’s ruling was based, in fact, on the evidence presented and the United States Constitution as written. Hence many who know “what the framers REALLY meant” will brand him with a Scarlet A. As in the past such daming accusations usually arise from the most fearful and superstitous amongst us.

By Eric

January 13, 2005 12:14 PM | Link to this

Perhaps Georgia schools will regain some respect they lost from this whole sticker debacle and the previous embarassing missteps of Cathy Cox regarding evolution.

Georgia students already have a difficult enough time being competitive (Georgia ranked LAST overall in state SAT scores in 2002), we need to educate our students based on science principles — what they need to know to succeed in college and beyond, not spend time with religious teachings better left for Sunday School.

This decision is a victory for our students and our state.

By Michael B

January 13, 2005 12:14 PM | Link to this

Has anybody been able to prove anything about Creationism without using the Bible? That’s where all the defenses I hear come from. Therefore keep it out of schools!

By Andy

January 13, 2005 12:15 PM | Link to this

Great news! I’m glad the stickers will be removed. It’s scary to think there are so many people out there that DON’T believe in Evolution! Get a clue and take some science classes…NOT FAKE Christen Science!

By John

January 13, 2005 12:16 PM | Link to this

Fact - Copernicus and Galileo were widely derided by offering hypotheses that contradicted widely-held scientific “theories/fact” regarding the Earth’s location in the universe.

Legal argument: -Childhood education is state-mandated law (1916). -Constitution 10th amendment clearly charges that such a law, becuase juridstiction is not expressly provided in the Constitution, is properly adjudicated in state courts. -If it is a federal issue, the following problem exists: The use of public funding to present as “indisputable, state-supported fact” ideas and theories directly contrary to religiously held beliefs.

Solution: Sticker that reads: ‘Evolution is a scientific theory that offers explanation regarding the origin and development of biological life, based on scientific data currently available’

By Jude

January 13, 2005 12:16 PM | Link to this

Hooray for common sense! I now feel a glimmer of hope that my home state is not totally ruled by the ignorance of alleged “family values”, which exclude some and discriminate against families like my own. And by the way, there are plenty of religious schools to send your children to. The assertion that Christie above has made in defense of Christianity, “We should be more open minded to allow our children to think instead of telling them what we want them to believe” I couldn’t agree with more, but forcing your religious views on your own children is hardly achieving that. There is NO fact based evidence whatsoever to help prove creationism, there is plenty in the way of evolution. Teach religion & God in church, NOT in public school!

By josh

January 13, 2005 12:16 PM | Link to this

I am very happy about this decision. More than anything else, these are science classes, and you teach science in science classes, not anything else. Evolution is a scientific theory, Creationism is not.

By Jennifer

January 13, 2005 12:16 PM | Link to this

Ahh the age old debate of creationism vs. evolution. I do remember the huge discussion that transpired when my freshman biology class approached this subject. Our textbook stated evolution as fact and we were tested as such. I am a Christian and have been raised with the biblical teachings of God’s creation. I do not, however, subscribe to the idea that the problem at hand is innately religious. I think that is a cop-out. Sticker or not - this issue will continue to be debated in the classroom by teachers attempting to open the minds of students that may or may not already have ideas of how exactly we got here. As long as this debate continues - students will take the possibilities with them and not accept statements from anyone at face value. This curiosity has led to many discoveries throughout time. Imagine what life would be like if the great inventors and researchers had taken everything that had been told to them at face value…the world would be flat, we would have no modern medicine, and we would still be communicating with fire and sticks. Let the debate continue - it fosters openmindness and education in all children!

By Amy

January 13, 2005 12:17 PM | Link to this

Thank you Judge Cooper. If science books are forced to use disclaimers about evolution, then the Bible should have to use disclaimers regarding creationism.

By albruan

January 13, 2005 12:17 PM | Link to this

Can anyone show me where pasting these stickers is a violation of the Establishment Clause in the U.S. Constitution? I’ve heard this bandied about whenever a Federal court strikes down a state or local school board position in favor of prayer, Bible reading, whatever; however, the only establishment clause is that found in Article I of the Constitution, which states “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof…” Since when is a school board or state legislature the Congress?

By David

January 13, 2005 12:19 PM | Link to this

I am just sick and tired of the religious groups and churches (remind you, churches don’t pay taxes) telling the schools and government officials what to do and what should be taught. Please let keep a separation of church and state.

By erik

January 13, 2005 12:19 PM | Link to this

With debates such as this does anyone really wonder why we rank so poorly in education as compared to the other states? Creation and Evolution are both theories and should be taught equally.

By Mark

January 13, 2005 12:20 PM | Link to this

I wonder whether any of those good people responsible for the placing of the sticker have considered how this will play in the national news. I am sympathetic, but I see the move as ripe for parody–the kind of thing that becomes fodder for articles in such satirical publications as THE ONION, and to devastating effect. Perhaps the Harry Potter books will be permitted in the school libraries, but not without a sticker inside the cover: “Warning: Reading this book may result in demon possession and full cranial revolutions.� Perhaps we will witness a burgeoning book warning sticker industry that offers cautionary advice on the works of everyone from Tolkien (“Warning: This book is a work of fantasy.�) to Twain (“Warning: This book uses the “N� word�). Or perhaps “sticker wars� will break out. Unable to remove the anti-evolution stickers from the texts, the opposition lobbies for anti-sticker stickers: “Warning: The sticker below has been put here by people with an extreme right-wing agenda. Please think critically about the warning contained therein.� It escalates from there, as the original group heads to press with yet a third sticker.

Whether true or not, it is all too easy to imagine those responsible for the petition and sticker as resembling those two-dimensional, hair-in-a-bun versions of fundamentalists offered up by Hollywood. We laugh at such characters and do not consider their ideas as being even among the contenders for truth, let alone being actually true. The sticker tactic is easily portrayed as the desperate act of those who, unable to compete in the arena of scientific debate, have muscled their views into the textbook on the strength of untutored popular opinion.

(such as those above claimed by some for Darwinism), you might as well give equal time to astrology or to the Raelian theory of origins. Assuming, as I do, the overall truth of creationism (i.e., there is a Creator), then I suspect that one reason why creationists are so far behind in advancing any respectable theories is that they have for too long retreated from the intellectual battlefield and claimed sanctity in their churches, thus embracing various forms of anti-intellectualism. (Those who are concerned about this intellectual retreat may benefit from an audio lecture by philosopher J.P. Moreland at http://hisdefense.org/audio/jp_audio.html)

By Clint

January 13, 2005 12:21 PM | Link to this

The arguments against evolution presented by creationists always amuse me. Creationists demand irrefuatble, unequivocal proof that evolution is correct before it can be entertained as anything other than drivel, but a creationist’s belief is completely blind faith. The fact remains that there is scientific evidence supporting evolutionary theory, so it should be taught in a science classroon. Faith-based issued should be left to faith-based venues or religion classes.

By johnson

January 13, 2005 12:21 PM | Link to this

I believe we were placed here by aliens. It’s my religion. It’s a theory. I think Cobb should teach it. Why should only Christian mythology be recognized? Welcome back to the 21st century Cobb!

By Nathan White

January 13, 2005 12:22 PM | Link to this

Its not like putting these stickers in the textbooks are going to change anybody, people will reject a God who holds them accountable no matter how much you force it on them. So the ruling doesn’t bother me at all, God will call His sheep to Himself. What cracks me up is the stupidity of people who believe in a far-out theory that takes much more faith than the Biblical account of creation. Its amazing the lengths they will go to in order to put God out of their mind so their conscience is clear to do whatever they please without accountability. “Professing to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man…�

By Mark

January 13, 2005 12:25 PM | Link to this

For once a rational decision in Cobb. It’s embarrassing how backward Georgia is compared to the rest of the nation. Is it any wonder the state is a laughing stock and the butt of so many Southern redneck jokes? Even Alabama is looking “advanced” in comparison these days. The stereotypes of the uneducated and narrow minded South continue to be perpetuated by such nonsense as these book stickers. The rest of the nation is well beyond such issues. First we had the flag debate and with that people around the nation saw us as prejudice, uneducated, and redneck. The state of Georgia voted in a new Governor in great part because of a flag design (pathetic), and then the new Governor went and changed it anyway. I guess there is divine justice! Now this with the school books. Maybe witch hunting and burning books will be next? Come on Georgia, get with the 21st Century.

By RICK PATTERSON

January 13, 2005 12:26 PM | Link to this

I think you either teach Evolution and Creation or teacxh niether because neither can be proved scientifically.

Creation is just a theory,not fact!

By Pat

January 13, 2005 12:26 PM | Link to this

Why do the “EVOLUTIONISTS’ label all religious people as ignorant. Many relions believe in micro-evolution but not macro-evolution. The Catholic Church has had this belief for quite awhile. The key is the origin of life issue.

By Garrett

January 13, 2005 12:27 PM | Link to this

ANYONE WHO BELIEVES IN EVOLUTION HAS NOT STUDIED IT AND LOOKED AT THE FACTS. IT TAKES MORE FAITH TO BELIEVE IN EVOLUTION THAN THE REALITY OF THE LORD OUR CREATOR. THERE IS NO MISSING LINK OR ANY EVIDENCE THAT SUPPORTS EVOLUTION ON A LARGE SCALE. THE SECOND LAW OF THERMODYNAMICS STATES THAT THINGS GO FROM ORDER TO CAOS. EVOLUTION SIMPLY IGNORES THIS SMALL FACT.

By Charles

January 13, 2005 12:28 PM | Link to this

It’s fascinating to see how many of you celebrating Cooper’s decision are utterly derisive and insulting of the other side. The statement contained in sticker is indisputable fact. Of course, the THEORY is scientific theory based on scientific evidence and observations; but, it is still, without doubt, theory. Yesterday’s announcement of the discovery of dinosaur-eating mammals in China does futher damage to evolutionist’s theories yet again.

Intelligent design and evolution are also not incompatible theories; if fact, all the scientific data seems to bolster the argument for some combination of them to be the truest theory.

Put your political correctness, your “hipness”, and most of all your snide name-calling aside; and you will see that common sense lost out in Cooper’s ruling.

By Adam Lipkin

January 13, 2005 12:28 PM | Link to this

This is wonderful news! The ignorance shown by the sticker-mongers is the sort of thing that has made Georiga a laughingstock. We don’t need to encourage our children to become ignorant.

By Brent

January 13, 2005 12:29 PM | Link to this

Get your head out of the sand the earth is not 6000 years old people!

By Todd

January 13, 2005 12:29 PM | Link to this

The decision to place a sticker in a science text book by the school system was ludicrous, but so is the judge’s decision to remove it. Each decision assumes students are stupid and unable to formulate opinions of their own. The right wing whack-o’s need to stop cramming their philosophy down our throats, and the left wing screwballs need to toughen up and stop being soooo offended by every little thing that comes along.

People are going to believe what they want to believe regardless of whether it appears as a “fact” or not, and I, for one, am glad of that.

By Pat

January 13, 2005 12:30 PM | Link to this

The more we learn about life at the molecular level the less likely it is that life could begin by chance. Why can’t these questions be asked in science class?

By Johnson

January 13, 2005 12:31 PM | Link to this

Hey Garrett,

If you say it in BOLD LETTERS DOES IT MAKE IT MORE TRUE?? MYTHOLOGY IS MYTHOLOGY.

By Lance

January 13, 2005 12:32 PM | Link to this

Definition of Open-minded: o·pen-mind·ed ADJECTIVE: Having or showing receptiveness to new and different ideas or the opinions of others.

This ruling does not meet that definition, yet its another victory for those who claim to be ‘open-minded’ when the truth is they are determined to make sure only their ‘theories’ are taught to children. Funny how those ‘open-minded’ individuals are so bigoted and close-minded when it comes to teaching about alternative ‘theories’ as to how we got here, so fearful that even mentioning a ‘theory’ from a religious standpoint in a classroom will turn children into zealots, when truth be told, those ‘open minds’ who fought this are hateful and ignorant of Religion. They claim to be concerned about Georgia appearing ‘backward’ with this one label on a textbook. Yet it’s terribly ironic their actions harken back to a time where southerners took the same logic to the color of one’s skin: only one color counted and was viewed as ‘superior’ over another. Evolution is a theory, yes, but the ‘separation of church and state’ the ‘enlightened’ among us profess their faith in is nothing but a myth. Not theory, not hypothesis, and most definitely not fact. Maybe these allegedly progressive and ‘enlightened’ indivduals can take some time from burning the Bible to elighten themselves with the Constitution, then read the Federalist Papers to understand what the Founders were for.

Unless, of course, you prefer to remain backward.

By dan turner

January 13, 2005 12:32 PM | Link to this

Evolution is currently the best SCIENTIFIC explanation for speciation of life, including the development of Homo Sapiens. This in no way contradicts the idea of intelligent design or a benevolent creator who set this process into motion. Those beliefs, however, are matters of faith, and since they cannot be scientifically tested, have NO PLACE in a SCIENCE class, just as science is not taught in your church. Would you want your child learning Native American or African creation stories in biology class? Why not?

By Paul

January 13, 2005 12:33 PM | Link to this

WHATEVER. These so-called “scientologists” think they know what’s best for MY kids because they read OH so many books. Well I can think of at least ONE book they have’nt read, and it does NOT say ANYthing about us being monkeys. If evolution is SO real, what about eyeballs?

By JB

January 13, 2005 12:33 PM | Link to this

No wonder Georgia schools are ranked last in about everything. Kids are supposed to be taught everything. Everything is based on theory. Evolution is a theory as well as Religion. Some of the chapters in the Bible were written thousands of years before Christ. Look into Gilgamesh and the Sumarians and their “flood”. I am so glad I was not educated in Georgia, otherwise I would be living in a bubble.

By Lee

January 13, 2005 12:34 PM | Link to this

What is everyone so afraid of if Creationism or Intelligent Design are not taught in the classroom? They can be and are taught in Church. So go to church and talk to your kids. I am a Christian Republican who WANTS separation of church and state so that I may always be free to believe and educate my family in the manner I wish and so that others may believe what they wish. Michael said it best, “Theories are open to change when new facts are discovered.” There is nothing to be afraid of. No one is trying to take the right to personal religious beliefs away from anyone by keeping religion out of a classroom. On the contrary; the right to freedom of religion has just been upheld!

By Tonya

January 13, 2005 12:34 PM | Link to this

Evolution is just a theory! Theories are not proven facts. Scientists have never been able to prove evolution. There is much more “proof� for creationism than for an “explosion� that began life. For pete’s sake, people, do not believe everything the media tells you! I suggest reading a book called, Science and the Bible. You will be amazed at the scientist who are creationists!

By Mike

January 13, 2005 12:34 PM | Link to this

HEY GARRETT, I THINK YOUR CAPS-LOCK KEY IS BROKEN. PERHAPS YOU COULD GET THE LORD YOUR CREATOR TO FIX THAT FOR YOU.

By Todd

January 13, 2005 12:34 PM | Link to this

The big problem I saw with the stickers is that they call into question one specific scientific theory…which happens to be the one most disputed by religious groups. It’s hard to see it as simply a matter of keeping an open mind to theories in general.

Why don’t the stickers also mention the theory of relativity and the myriad other scientific theories?

Evolution may not answer the ultimate origin question but it clearly outlines the process of species adapting and evolving to suit particular environments.

Science classes should stick to science. That teaching should include observed limitations on theories but not religious beliefs which were clearly the unwritten implication of the stickers.

By CJ

January 13, 2005 12:35 PM | Link to this

There is no seperation of church & state. Try reading the constitution for yourself instead of assuming. Ammendment 1 does not state this….it is not a law, it is a lie. Something to ponder.

http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html#Am1

By Jennifer

January 13, 2005 12:35 PM | Link to this

I’m thrilled with the ruling! It’s such a shame that it takes a federal court to force Cobb County to enter the modern world.

When I was in school, we studied evolution in science class, which is where it belongs. In literature class, we studied various creation myths, from Christian to Native American to a variety of other cultures and religions. It is important to teach children that there are in fact other views than your own.

Instead of hiding from controversy and trying to shield your kids from learning about evolution, use the unit as a way to teach your children how to defend their beliefs. If there are legitimate counter-arguments, sit down with your children and talk about them. As parents, we are still the primary educators of our children. It’s time that we step up, do the job, and quit expecting the government to raise our kids. What does it say about us, as parents, that the schools found such a lack of character development in their students that they now feel compelled to teach character education? I’d much rather our school teach my children how to read, write, and do math. Maybe if we stopped forcing them to raise our kids, our teachers could focus on teaching and our test scores would improve.

By John

January 13, 2005 12:36 PM | Link to this

So much for academic freedom. Again - the courts have protected Darwinism as a sacred cow that cannot be questioned. Darwinism is a secular faith. It is based on faulty data and grounded in false assumptions. The only reason that Darwinism is not more seriously doubted by the public is because of its protected status which makes the SCIENTIFIC process of reviewing data and questioning conclusions something that ends up in front of a federal court. What are you Darwinists so afraid of? You bunch of chickens! If your theory is so good it ought to be able to defend itself against a few questions.

By Ty

January 13, 2005 12:36 PM | Link to this

I’d like to ask all adherants to the Bible’s account of our creation just which one they believe in: that in Genesis 1 (on the nth day, God made x…) or that in Genesis 2 (the story of Adam and Eve).

Both? Well, that’s impossible…the two are chronologically irreconcilable.

Now I myself am a very devout Christian who lives like Jesus to the best of my ability. But I don’t see how accepting evolution conflicts with that!

By Johnson

January 13, 2005 12:39 PM | Link to this

Great news for Georgia! It’s about time this state realizes that church and state must to be separated. What mom and dad teach their kids at home is their business … but it’s not appropriate to teach creationism in a public school with my tax dollars. Contrary to what the bible thumpers like to believe, there are other religions in the world and this nation that should be recognized and respected, but not in a public school. We are a diverse nation rich with many religious beliefs, a fact that Cobb County often seems to forget. How arrogant of Cobb County to take the stand that everyone attending one of their public schools is a Christian. Talk about small-minded. In fact Christianity is in the minority when the rest of the worlds religious beliefs are factored in.

By Dominic

January 13, 2005 12:41 PM | Link to this

I liked Jennifers statement about embracing difference - the children of today are far smarter than all you old people getting all hot and bothered. I was educated in the UK and said the lords prayer daily in school. My views are secular, but i respect ALL religions. Teach all religions in school and teach them equally. Not at an extreme level, but just the broad spectrum - maybe we will / america will foster a better understanding of the world we live in. Evolution is an essential component of scientific learning and and needs to be taught in science class. christianity (its many classes) is an essential component of Georgia sociology and also needs to be taught in school - just because you are bling dont wish that upon your children.

By Nathan

January 13, 2005 12:41 PM | Link to this

Hey Johnson,

Can you prove what Garrett said was MYTHOLOGY? Didn’t think so…

Oh, let me get this straight…you believe that something out of nothing created everything? Wow, talk about religious faith…evolutionist dont even know that they had any!

By Sean

January 13, 2005 12:43 PM | Link to this

The First Amendment does discuss the State’s treatment of religion. Additionally, the Supreme Court has made clear that the states are NOT allowed to promote religion. This sticker clearly promoted the Christian view of mans origins. I believe I am fully capable of teaching my schildren about religion without the Cobb school board’s assistance. My 3 kids all attend Cobb public schools and I’m glad this embarrassing sticker has been removed.

By TC Ford

January 13, 2005 12:43 PM | Link to this

It is so sad to see a country founded on the principles of Christian beliefs would allow an unproven version of creation to exist in books which educate our future leaders. I find it funny that all theories that dispute the teachings of the Bible are so widely accepted and openly practiced in the US. So many people seek to remove GOD from everything!! But please know GOD is watching.

By Robert Sieling

January 13, 2005 12:44 PM | Link to this

I hope this forces the hand of the intelligent design advocates to take their “scientific arguments” to our research universities where it belongs and out of the local politics of the school board.

ID and creation science, while interesting to the lay person, must first gain acceptance within the science disciplines of our excellent leading science universities before it can legitimately be taught in primary and secondary science education. Our School Boards cannot circumvent these institutions without seriously compromising their own intellectual legitimacy.

If at some future time a version of ID or creation science actually meets the definition of a “scientific” theory and actually explains and predicts the development of life on our planet, then the scientific community will be the first to embrace it.

By Paul

January 13, 2005 12:45 PM | Link to this

If we let them teach evolutionary now, what next? Big bangs? I have read the bible from COVER TO COVER (except for job) and guess what athesists? I found NO evidence of evolutionism existing now or EVER? In fact you might be interested in the fact that the word “evoluton” is not even IN the bible ANYWHERE. Looks like the ol public schools have failed again!

By Patrick

January 13, 2005 12:46 PM | Link to this

Finally,Cobb County is being dragged from the Dark Ages.

By Kelly

January 13, 2005 12:47 PM | Link to this

This is a good decision by a thoughtful judge. He’s right, the school district’s support for those silly stickers was a clear case of entanglement of government in favor of religion. Neither creationism nor intelligent design are scientific theories—if you think they are, show me a single science journal article discussing either topic. There aren’t any.

Evolution is a theory, and NOT a hunch. Gravity and electromagnetism are also theories, but you don’t hear the fundamentalists whining about those, do you? It’s also a theory that the earth orbits the sun, rather than the other way around. Are the fundamentalists going to insist on equal time for the earth-centered universe “theory”?

By Johnson

January 13, 2005 12:48 PM | Link to this

Extremely well said Jennifer (12:35pm)!!!

You put my thoughts into words better than I could have.

Thanks!

By Cindy Pursley

January 13, 2005 12:48 PM | Link to this

If parents want their children to learn about creation, then teach them at home. Not all religions believe in creationism and therefore the teaching of it forces judeo-christian religious beliefs on others. Discuss creation with your children if it is important to you. Isn’t that supposed to be what parents do? Teach their children their beliefs!

By J.R.

January 13, 2005 12:48 PM | Link to this

Good decision. If you want to teach your children about God, be a real parent and do it at home.

By johnson

January 13, 2005 12:48 PM | Link to this

Hold on. You guys are way ahead of me. I’m still wrestling with that Theory of Gravity thing. It’s a theory too, … isn’t it? My religion says we are pushed back to Earth by a strange outer space force, yet to be found. I demand we teach our children this alternative theory. Perhaps Cobb needs a Gravity Sticker… There’s room where the Evolution sticker was thankfully removed.

By Scott

January 13, 2005 12:48 PM | Link to this

Thank goodness this stupidity is over. On the contrary, “people are not seeking to remove GOD from everything,” they are seeking to remove the influence of idiots on the rest of us.

By TC Chevy

January 13, 2005 12:50 PM | Link to this

TC Ford- please explain how a theory researched by scientists is somehow less valid than the “The Big Fairy in the Sky Waved His Hand and Made Stuff (but just ignore that fossil record, He was having an Off Day) Theory”.

Logic. It’s fun. Try it.

By Dominic

January 13, 2005 12:50 PM | Link to this

Whats a scarier threat? Being told GOD is watching - thus implying that by not accepting creationism means you will go to hell, or Being told that GOD does not exist an you will be subjected to decomposition and very little else? i think both are destructive… you have your belief and i have mine. Dont threaten its not nice.

As for this country not being christian…whatever! cant remember us getting a honnakah holiday or ramadam. it was christams right? And no alcohol on Sundays? How about saturday being the jewish sabbath?

By Scott

January 13, 2005 12:50 PM | Link to this

Thank goodness this silliness is over. Contrary to some comments, people are NOT seeking to remove God from everything. They are seeking to remove the influence of idiots on the rest of us.

By Sean

January 13, 2005 12:51 PM | Link to this

TC Ford — your mention of “unproven version” in the same sentence as the Bible is apropos. There is much less (none) proof for the Bible version of creation than evolution. While I am a Christian there are many, many others in this country who are not, as well as many different denominations of Christianity. While God has some place in the public arena religion IS NOT appropriate in our public schools. There are many fine Christian schools who incorporate religious teachings into their lessons. Evolution is entirely appropriate in public schools, creationism is not.

By Tom

January 13, 2005 12:53 PM | Link to this

For those of you ‘smart’ folks who claim a theory is tanamount to a fact, here’s the truth: fact (fkt) KEY

NOUN:

Knowledge or information based on real occurrences: an account based on fact; a blur of fact and fancy.

Something demonstrated to exist or known to have existed: Genetic engineering is now a fact. That Chaucer was a real person is an undisputed fact. A real occurrence; an event: had to prove the facts of the case. Something believed to be true or real: a document laced with mistaken facts. A thing that has been done, especially a crime: an accessory before the fact. Law The aspect of a case at law comprising events determined by evidence: The jury made a finding of fact

the·o·ry (th-r, thîr) KEY

NOUN: pl. the·o·ries A set of statements or principles devised to explain a group of facts or phenomena, especially one that has been repeatedly tested or is widely accepted and can be used to make predictions about natural phenomena. The branch of a science or art consisting of its explanatory statements, accepted principles, and methods of analysis, as opposed to practice: a fine musician who had never studied theory. A set of theorems that constitute a systematic view of a branch of mathematics. Abstract reasoning; speculation: a decision based on experience rather than theory. A belief or principle that guides action or assists comprehension or judgment: staked out the house on the theory that criminals usually return to the scene of the crime. An assumption based on limited information or knowledge; a conjecture.

hy·poth·e·sis (h-pth-ss) KEY

NOUN: pl. hy·poth·e·ses (-sz) KEY
A tentative explanation for an observation, phenomenon, or scientific problem that can be tested by further investigation. Something taken to be true for the purpose of argument or investigation; an assumption. The antecedent of a conditional statement

Seems to me, based on the arguements for and against Darwin’s ‘theory of evolution’ that it is closer to hypothesis than either theory OR fact, and a theory can’t be a fact unless proven true beyond a shadow of a doubt. Sorry, Felicia, but as founding father John Adams once said: “Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”

By rob

January 13, 2005 12:53 PM | Link to this

I don’t understand why people think that if you believe in evolution that you don’t believe in God. That’s just so closed minded and backward. I am Christian but I’m also intelligent enough to know that evolution is part of God’s plan. Without evolution life as we know it would not exist because we are constantly adapting to our changing environment. Science is not our enemy!

By John

January 13, 2005 12:54 PM | Link to this

If the fundamentalists don’t want to be derided, then they should work on their reading skills. They conveniently ignore the scientific definition of “Theory”. It is not the same as a theory about who did it, in what room, and with what while playing a game of Clue one evening. It is an explanation that has withstood significant scrutiny over an extended period of time and has been accepted by the vast majority of the scientific community as the best existing explanation to explain a particular phenomenon.

The display of anti-intellectualism from all the fundamentalists (notice I don’t say Christian’s - not all Christians are willfully ignorant, intolerant and close-minded) is absolutely astounding to me. I find it both humorous and disturbing that so many people who in all likelyhood (forgive me if I’m making a generalization here) last sat in a science class in high school feel qualified to weigh in on the scientific validity of something that has been studied and disected by people who have devoted their entire lives to the field.

Creation is NOT a valid competing theory, if only because its roots have absolutely nothing to do with objective science. Do any of you fundies honestly think that we will continue to make scientific advances in the future if our every question is simply answered with “Because God said so?”

By Maya Nair

January 13, 2005 12:55 PM | Link to this

I was worried for the children - they take enough drivel from the religious fanatics at home - allowing the next generation to use their brains is the best thing we can do for the future!

By Patrick

January 13, 2005 12:55 PM | Link to this

“By Paul

January 13, 2005 12:45 PM | Link to this

If we let them teach evolutionary now, what next? Big bangs? I have read the bible from COVER TO COVER (except for job) and guess what athesists? I found NO evidence of evolutionism existing now or EVER? In fact you might be interested in the fact that the word “evolutonâ€? is not even IN the bible ANYWHERE. Looks like the ol public schools have failed again! “

If you haven’t read Job, then how can you proclaim that something isn’t “in the bible ANYWHERE.”? Talk about schools failing, where did you go to school, Paul? And, this may shock you, but they teach the Big Bang too. And other science and scientific theory you probably wouldn’t approve of.

By Jessica

January 13, 2005 12:56 PM | Link to this

Some one said that it’s a shame that the wishes of a few take precedent over the wishes of the majority in this case. I disagree, it’s cases like this that our judicial system was made to protect the few and not the majority.

This was a good decision as most books explain at the beginning of the chapter on evolution that it’s just a scientific theory, and by the time they get there, your child should know the difference between scientific laws and scientific theories. If they don’t you have bigger problems than just evolution.

By L..S,

January 13, 2005 12:57 PM | Link to this

I agree with the comments of another blogger. Evolution is a very flawed theory. It is a shame that it is presented as fact. What is even worse is that some of the flaws have been exposed for years. I wish the judge would have ruled differently

By John Wenning

January 13, 2005 12:57 PM | Link to this

There is the theory of gravity, and there is the fact of gravity. There are two competing theories of aerodynamic lift, and the simple reality of lift. There is the simple reality of evolution, like the measurable changes in genetic alleles of the bacteria that causes strep throat, then there’s theory which would suggest this happened from a process of natural selection from exposure to penicillin. Proclaiming that “evolution is just a theory” and therfore not proven, shows amazing ignorance about very basic concepts of science. Is gravity “just a theory”, well of course gravity is a theory, a constantly changing theory and even if proved wrong, would never change the simple fact that gravity exists. Lets not forget what the bible says in Psalms about the earth being “fixed” and the heavens set in motion. http://www.fixedearth.com.

By Jerry

January 13, 2005 12:58 PM | Link to this

Glad to see Georgia is re-joining the ranks of the rest of the thinking population.

Seems some of you (the Creationism supporters) need to realize that government-funded public schools have no mandate to teach your religious beliefs as an option.

If you want your children to learn about fairy tales, teach them in your homes and in your churches, not our public schools.

By jordan

January 13, 2005 12:58 PM | Link to this

Kudos to the legal system and to the learned judge. And though I respect the opinion of the opinionist Christie, I’m wondering if it will teaching good christian children the rules of gravity and inertia will “dampen” their belief in Santa Clause. If so, it would probably be better to let them stay home from school and read JR Tolken and CS Lewis.

By Tonya

January 13, 2005 12:58 PM | Link to this

Since everyone is somewhat familiar with “Darwin”, do you realize that even he admitted that the human eyeball could not have evolved. It was far too intricate in design to have evolved.

By dan turner

January 13, 2005 01:00 PM | Link to this

RE PAUL: “scientology”,”what about eyeballs?” thats hard stuff to argue with. As for us “coming from monkeys ” we don’t, we share a common ancestor, and all of us primates have forward facing ocular globes (eyeballs) which enable binocular vision. Does the bible mention anything about our solar system paul? or atomic structure or electricity? I don’t never member readin bout no physics in my bible, better not ago learnin that rubbish.

By Scott

January 13, 2005 01:00 PM | Link to this

I find it ironic that many of the same people arguing that we should be critical of the theory of evolution, studying it carefully with an open mind, are the same people who teach their children one religion without regard or critical consideration of other beliefs. They want scientists to prove evolution beyond any doubt, with hard facts and indisputable evidence, but the existence of their God and the teachings of their religion, should be taken on faith, and any critical consideration of their textbook for this faith, the Bible, or question of their beliefs, is regarded as irreverent and immoral. At best these people are hypocrites and should be “approached with an open mind, studied carefully and critically considered.�

In case this thread has not already pointed this obvious fact out, science and religion are very different and often contrasting disciplines, and they should be taught separately to ensure that they are not confused as comparable.

By Debbie

January 13, 2005 01:01 PM | Link to this

As a Jewish person living in Cobb county, I am highly offended by some of the comments I have just read. Those of you who feel so strongly that your children should be taught Creationism rather than evolution in a public school setting, that you feel you must offend and name-call the rest of us, do us all a favor and take your children out of our public schools and keep your holier-than-thou, self-righteous, and bigoted opinions to yourselves.

By Thor

January 13, 2005 01:01 PM | Link to this

To those that claim evolution is not proven: Please join us in the 21st century, and actually try to read some books beside the Bible. The theory of evolution has as much evidence to support it as the fact that the earth revolves around the sun. Any objection to the teaching of evolution in public schools cannot be made on any valid scientific grounds. There is absolutely no scientific rationale for creationism or intelligent design. None. Nada. Zip.

By Jerry

January 13, 2005 01:01 PM | Link to this

Oh, and to those of you that think the Theory of Evolution is not fact and is just a guess, I assume you also oppose the Theory of Gravity? I guess you all are just floating around like angels and don’t have to concern yourselves with pie-in-the-sky theories like gravity.

By Phil

January 13, 2005 01:01 PM | Link to this

Cobb. Why is it again? Still sleeping under 1996 Olympic scandal? Or is it Christcommunism already?

By Phil

January 13, 2005 01:02 PM | Link to this

When will this country wake up and give GOD the glory. GOD created the heavens and the earth. Judges may rule the courts but one day they will answer to the Almighty GOD, He will judge the just and unjust. The Darwin theory is simply put GARBAGE, people get your head out of the sand. No matter what we do JESUS loves everyone.

By Dominic

January 13, 2005 01:02 PM | Link to this

What the dictionary terms are for fact/theory/hypothesis is not at all the same as science. Research science is based solely on the application of statistical probabilities. Whereas that to suggest findings of a high degree of significance to be random and just fluke is considered perverse. If i need to explain that sentence to poorly educated home schooled brainwashed people , please ask and i will provide further clarification. innuva words - if ya carnt work out wot i seed than arsk and i weel till yar.

By Paul

January 13, 2005 01:03 PM | Link to this

“They are seeking to remove the influence of idiots on the rest of us.”

Let me clear things up for you guys, evolution is a THEORY. Now what does THEORY mean, you ask? Well it means that it has no basis in realilty. Guess what, its my theory that the earth is made of chocolate! horray! Let’s go teach that to our children now because its a theory! do some RESEARCH PEOPLE. Evolution was invented by some guy like FIFTY YEARS ago, BEFORE compters. If it is such a fact, why did it take so long for us to think it up?

By Mike

January 13, 2005 01:03 PM | Link to this

Science expert weighing in here: DNA definitely could have happened randomly. All the doubters should familiarize themselves with another concept called “self-assembly.” Google it and find out. It will simply give you some idea of how very complex molecules CAN be generated just by being in a particular spacial relationship to each other. Also keep in mind that God does not make every molecule on the Earth. Our bodies, bacteria and plants (etc.) have developed chemical methods of synthesizing very complex molecules which are so perfect that we can’t in many cases duplicate them in a lab. That’s called biomimetic synthesis. You might want to Google that too.

By Lee

January 13, 2005 01:06 PM | Link to this

Scientific history is constantly being rewritten, a fact which never threatens religious belief. My father-in-law is a fundamentalist Preacher, and for years before intact skeletons were found, stood by the “irrefutable” facts” that dinosaurs never existed but were a conspiracy of anti-Christians to remove God from schools. He had to eat major crow eventually and has refused to discuss it since.

By Tonya

January 13, 2005 01:08 PM | Link to this

As well, the Constitution’s intent was to keep government (state) out of the “church” not the church out of government (state). The law has been vastly misinterpreted. Take an American History/Government Class which contains history from American’s beginning, and study the early documents of our Founding Fathers and you will learn the truth.

By Nathan

January 13, 2005 01:08 PM | Link to this

“I don’t understand why people think that if you believe in evolution that you don’t believe in God.”

That comment by Rob blows my mind. Where do we get our knowledge of God? From the Bible, and evolution is contrary to the Bible..you cant have both. Stop using science to interpret what the scripture clearly teaches; scripture overules science! Interpret science through scripture!

By Sheree

January 13, 2005 01:08 PM | Link to this

This entire situation is a complete waste of tax dollars and should never have been taken to a court. The sticker in no way said “believe in creationism” it simply asked students to think. Thinking is a fundamental freedom that every human on this planet has the right to no matter his/her religious belief. If evolution is a theory than we all must think about it and question it. And in so doing we must also question the “beliefâ€? of creationism. Without these questions we will never continue to evolve into better humans.

By Jerry

January 13, 2005 01:08 PM | Link to this

Since everyone is somewhat familiar with “Darwin�, do you realize that even he admitted that the human eyeball could not have evolved. It was far too intricate in design to have evolved.

Tonya, that’s taking a quote of Darwin out of context. Darwin did say something similar to that but did go on to state that it happened anyway and went on to give a guess as to how.

By Chris

January 13, 2005 01:09 PM | Link to this

Let me get this straight: a sticker in a textbook encourages an open mind, careful study, and critical consideration, and it’s being removed because people think it’s biased and narrow-minded? Just who is biased and narrow-minded here? Since when does encouraging students to have an open mind rather than swallow whatever they’re spoon-fed qualify as “fundamentalist”? The people who think that evolution as it is taught in textooks is embraced by all well-credentialed scientists have buried their heads in the sand. There are quite a few agnostic, non-Christian scientists who think the theory is substantially flawed. To completely ignore them and blame fundamentalists for “censorship” is … well, biased and narrow-minded.

By Amy

January 13, 2005 01:09 PM | Link to this

Alright here is a question for everyone,Did we complain about it when we were in school? It is shocking to think that people have nothing better to do than argue over creationism and evolution. We have seniors in high school that cannot read do to being just pushed through the system and the biggest issue you can find to argue about is this. Please someone wake up and smell coffee. Our children are lagging behind the rest of the world. Does anyone else not see a problem with this? We should be pushing for our children to have the best materials to learn from and teachers should have the right materials to teach them. Can we please leave this petty issue alone and get on the real issues? Let our children,our future, make their own decisions about how we came to be. Why is the issue being forced on these children?

By Joe

January 13, 2005 01:10 PM | Link to this

Only the stupid, not the ignorant, fear education.

By Grant

January 13, 2005 01:10 PM | Link to this

Unfortunately, the ruling says nothing about Cobb County’s complementary sticker, the one that says we’re not sure about this Galileo fellow, and we should evaluate, critically, his suggestion that the earth actually revolves around -scoff- the sun.

By Danny

January 13, 2005 01:10 PM | Link to this

I’m glad this is over!(for now…) Hopefully, it will teach a lesson to all the bible-beaters in Cobb County…and all over Georgia.

By johnson

January 13, 2005 01:11 PM | Link to this

To those who refuse to budge from their Creationist views:

I hope you at least pray and thank God that someone else is willing to think critically so that man can continue to advance. No one is scared to find Creationism is true. In fact we’d be delighted. We just want the truth, like a round earth, cures for disease, longer lives, etc. God knows the Truth. And unfortunately he didn’t make it very clear in the Book, but left much of it for us to discover. Too bad you want to stop figuring it out cause you think you already have all the answers. God must be crying for the brain cells you are wasting.

By L.D.

January 13, 2005 01:11 PM | Link to this

Wonder why all these people afraid of these stickers always say that those stickers promote a ‘Christian’ view? Are they so ‘open-minded’ that they believe Islam’s version of creation begins with the theory of evolution? Are they fearful of religion, or just bigoted against one religion?

When courts either allow religious points of view to be discussed in the public forum, or when they not only ban supposedly ‘Christian’ references, but references of other religions(which many courts in California and New York have banned any Christian references from public schools, but have allowed many Islamic and Jewish references and symbols), then this ruling can and will be considered nothing more than a bad interpretation of the Constitution and a victory for an arrogant class of hateful, willfully narrow-minded people. How sad they practice the same ignorance and intolerance they claim this ruling prevents.

By Dominic

January 13, 2005 01:12 PM | Link to this

Here we go…. i have to quit now as i get rather irritated. It always resorts to YOU DONT BELIEVE AND YOU WILL HAVE YOUR DAY OF JUDGEMENTS …..if you think speaking this way brings people around to your thinkng then you are sadly mistaken.

By tom

January 13, 2005 01:12 PM | Link to this

One more example of ‘judicial oligarchy’ where members of the Court firmly believe they have access to wisdom denied the rest of us. Constitution does not require separation of church and state; it prohibits a government-endorsed religion. These pinheads should be required to name the comet that supposedly sprinkled life upon planet earth.

By Paul

January 13, 2005 01:12 PM | Link to this

RE: DAN Ok so the monkeys have “ocular globs”? FINE, where did they get them. And I can’t help but notice, smart guy, that i don’t have a tail! And thats just the tip of the cake in terms of hard-hitting questions evolution has yet to answer. But one thing we will all answer to is our lord and when we do, you can bet your behind I’ll be in line with the winners.

By Brett F

January 13, 2005 01:18 PM | Link to this

I applaud the decision to remove these “disclaimer” stickers. While people are entitled to believe whatever they want in terms of how human life came to be, Darwinism does an excellent job of explaining our evolutionary past. Since some people like to discount the idea based on the fact it’s a “theory,” maybe I can clarify — a scientific theory is simply an explanation of a given phenomenon based on all we CURRENTLY know. It’s not just some trivial quack idea to throw around. If someone found strong evidence to refute this “theory” tomorrow, it would have to be thrown out the window…but keep in mind that this theory has stood the test of time for over a hundred years of scientific discoveries, so it must be pretty solid. I wish people could just realize that the idea of creationism is at absolute best a far-fetched “theory” so it would be nice if people held this concept to the same level of scrutiny as Darwinism. Neither idea about creation can be proven based on what’s known today (although there’s quite a lot of evidence to say Darwin was right and the Bible’s account is wholly unfulfilling given the most generous chronological distortions). Kids go to school to learn about the world around them, so it would be nice to not perpetuate ignorance about perhaps the most widely-accepted scientific theory in the world. Just a thought…

By Dominic

January 13, 2005 01:19 PM | Link to this

Paul your confidence at being a winner is amusing. You lost today right? ha ha. Anyhow its a a coccyx not a tail

By Lee

January 13, 2005 01:19 PM | Link to this

Paul, The Great Apes, i.e. chimps, orangatans, and gorillas, with whom it has been PROVEN we share similar DNA, do not have tails; only moneys have tails, with whom we do not have DNA similarities.

By bonnie

January 13, 2005 01:19 PM | Link to this

I agree that these stickers are only put there to encourage people to open their minds about scientific theory. For centuries, Christians have been the very model of open-mindedness. In fact, Christian fundamentalists are also funding a program that will have additional stickers put into social studies textbooks. These will explain that although many families consist of a mother and a father, people need to open their minds and accept that single parent and same-sex households are just as valid and loving. And then there are the free condoms they want to pass out so that students can make their own decisions about sex. It’s really quite something.

By Ralph

January 13, 2005 01:20 PM | Link to this

I want to start by saying I am a Christian. Separation of chuch and state is part of the foundation of this country. If Georgians want creationism taught in school it should be in a world religion class where all religions are represented. Evolution is based in science and while it may not be a perfect theory (thus called a theory and not law)it is currently the best scientific explaination availiable. Creationism has no scientific backing thus should not be taught in a science class, faith can not be proven.

By John

January 13, 2005 01:20 PM | Link to this

Dear Paul. I hate to use circular reasoning but…um…the answer to your question in this context would be…evolution. Duh.

By Again!

January 13, 2005 01:20 PM | Link to this

It is the gays and lesbians! It is there fault, somehow, I just know it is. They are responsbile for 9/11, tsunami, all divorce, all out of wedlock children and somehow I know we can blame this on gays, if we just think long enough.

By Luke

January 13, 2005 01:20 PM | Link to this

Thankfully, those with a shabby intellect or psychological dependence on fantasy lost this battle, though I am quite sure the war is not over.

I suppose the most troubling issue of all is the prevailing need to explain to these troglodytes their barnyard theologies do not and cannot properly account for the complexities and intricacies of biological evolution, or any other respectable scientific theory for that matter.

Some have the patience to explain what a “theory” is (incorporates observable data, coheres with norms of nature, is open to reasonable sorts of tests, etc.), but I do not.

I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain to primates what “evidence” means.

By Nathan

January 13, 2005 01:20 PM | Link to this

LET ME GET THIS STRAIGHT:

All of you who want the thought of a God who holds us accountable out of your conscience so you can do what you please (otherwise known as evolutionist)….you guys believe in evolution because of what? Theories? Can you reproduce these theories (like we can reproduce gravity?). No you can’t. Also, you guys think you are extra smart or something because you “use rationality” and stuff to decide what you believe. What allows us to make intellectual decisions? Our mind that was created by evolution? Wow, talk about really wanting to forget your accountable…..

By Michael

January 13, 2005 01:20 PM | Link to this

Bad decision. Does anyone really believe that a single cell organism evolved into an animal and animal evolved into a human being. There is not a single fossil record that exists that supports evolution. By the way, a theory is a hypothesis while a fact is the truth. News flash, AJC reports dog born with human head, please. This is like saying the Big Bang Theory caused order. When is the last time you saw any explosion cause order. Remember God is good all the time and all the time God is good.

By Blader

January 13, 2005 01:21 PM | Link to this

Great result.

Anti-modernist and reactionary protestant fundamentalism (which is the origin of creationism) has no place in tax-payer supported institutions.

I took some time to read the court decision and must applaud the judge for his even-handed application of logic and reason.

By Lynn

January 13, 2005 01:22 PM | Link to this

To all Christian parents: The public schools have taken God out and replaced it with worldliness and humanism. Try as I did, take your kids out and homeschool them. At least then you don’t have to worry about what they’re being taught. A mass exodus from public schools would send a very strong message.

By Andrea

January 13, 2005 01:22 PM | Link to this

To Debbie of Cobb Co: I’m feeling you! I’m a Jewish person living in Fulton Co & my family, Jewish friends & I are sick of hearing the Bible/USA are founded on CHRISTIAN principles only. I certainly have nothing against Christianity & have the highest regard for Jesus but just because I’m a different religion, that doesn’t make me some unworthy heathen Godless trash.

By Sara Beth

January 13, 2005 01:22 PM | Link to this

I can not believe that taxpayers money and mine included has been waisted on this issue. Who cares??? I went to public school and did just fine making my own decisions and forming my own ideas on this subject. I am not sure that three days of discussion back in November was all that necessary. Frankly, I think it was a waste of time. Now, because of this decision someone is going to get paid removing stickers off a whole bunch of books instead of doing their real job! This has got to be the most worn out issue I have heard about. I totally agree with the guy that wrote that we need to just all get a long while we are here still and not care about this other stuff. Give me a break!!!

By Mark

January 13, 2005 01:22 PM | Link to this

Why is it so difficult to teach evolution and “intelligent design” BOTH as THEORIES and let the students decide for themselves based on the facts?

By Patrick

January 13, 2005 01:24 PM | Link to this

Paul. You need to just give up. It is readily apparent that, despite however many years of education you have, you actual grasp upon the world ends at around a 4th grade level. nYou don’t have a tail, dummy, neither do chimps, gorillas or orangutans. Nor do certain species of cats. Nor do many other mammals on this planet. How in the world does your not having a tail defend your ignorant position??

By bap

January 13, 2005 01:24 PM | Link to this

Recently my wife and I visited the Museum of Man in San Diego. I wish all the opponents to the theory of evolution could go there and see the exhibits, the timeline, the process and the so called “theory” of evolution.

Meaningless opposition of a scientific theory does nothing to the actual education of our children. Its high time people realized that Georgia has the lowest test scores and literacy standards.

Please stop this meaningless debate because when compared to the curriculum of the rest of the world, I think you can safely say we are reaching towards the goal of being the most illiterate and uninformed group of people. Religion is personal while science is universal and that is a fact. Please stop confusing the two.

By Patrick

January 13, 2005 01:24 PM | Link to this

Paul. You need to just give up. It is readily apparent that, despite however many years of education you have, your actual grasp upon the world ends at around a 4th grade level. You don’t have a tail, dummy, neither do chimps, gorillas or orangutans. Nor do certain species of cats. Nor do many other mammals on this planet. How in the world does your not having a tail defend your ignorant position??

By Sean

January 13, 2005 01:25 PM | Link to this

So now those who belive in creation are “winners.” Wow, I didn’t know it was a contest. What about Muslims, Hindus, and other non-Christians? Are they winners or losers? Or do you just have to believe in Christianity? How about Catholics and Protestants? What about Lutherans who believe the Bible version of creation is allegory? Now I’m really confused. And once again I want to point out that the Constitution says the state shall “make no law respecting an establishment of religion.” Here’s a link. http://www.archives.gov/nationalarchivesexperience/charters/billofrights_transcript.html. The courts have interpreted this to mean the states CANNOT PROMOTE RELIGION! I doubt the Christians would be so irritated with the decision if it had been one that removed teachings from the Koran.

By Mara

January 13, 2005 01:26 PM | Link to this

Yeah, I can see why it would be easy for people to believe that life sprang up instantaneously when mandated by a big ol’ spanking daddy in the sky. That would mean that there is somebody looking out for them. Much harder for these children-in-adult-bodies to deal with is that they are actually on their own and that biological changes over time really are the basis for life.
One theory you can test for and get repeated identical results, the other is nothing more than untestable faith. If you can’t test for it, DON’T TRY TO TEACH IT!!!

By Vincent

January 13, 2005 01:26 PM | Link to this

T.T. Martin wrote (80 years ago)”The Germans who poisoned the wells and springs of northern France and Belgium and fed little children poisoned candy were angels compared to the teachers, paid by our taxes, who feed our children’s minds with the deadly, soul-destroying poison of Evolution….Evolution and the teaching of Evolution in tax-supported schools is the greatest curse that ever fell upon this earth.” Isn’t it nice to now that Georgia has finally caught up? That is an 82 year old quote. What took us so long? I am appalled by Cobb County Schools for doing this. What, was it not a concern several years ago when it was first placed on the text books?

By Dominic

January 13, 2005 01:26 PM | Link to this

What made me agnostic:

Being educted in religion during elementary school when i clearly would also have believed that Goofy lived in Orlando.

Then being allowed to research the ecology of freshwater having spent many years tuning myself to common scientific understanding.

Good old Darwin - he studied theology in case many of you didn’t know. And we the british have not really mounted him as our messiah like the american athiests. It was a long time ago and many of his contemplations were pretty crazy. But the underlying data gathering is a model to us all.

By Jerry

January 13, 2005 01:27 PM | Link to this

Why do people keep bringing the Bible into this, too?

The Bible is not a tool for scientific research. The Bible was written by many men over many decades. Also, the early Church decided what would go into the New Testament, tossing out things that didn’t agree with their dogma and attempts to manipulate people into following their brand of religion.

The Bible is merely meant as a method to convey the human condition. It’s to show man’s struggle to keep faith in times of duress and persecution (which is also why many misinterpret the Book of Revelation). That was solely to give early Christians hope that one day their persecution by the Romans would end and they could practice their religion freely.

By Todd

January 13, 2005 01:28 PM | Link to this

tom: Explain to us how a sticker, imposed by a govt. body (school board)at the request of avid creationists, questioning a specific scientific theory is not an implied endorsement of the religion of those making the request?

I have no problem with people enjoying their own religions but am squarely against any imposition of those beliefs on the captive audience of school kids by the authority that is the public school system.

The comet was X-C935. It was a long time ago.

By Phoebe

January 13, 2005 01:28 PM | Link to this

There has to be a separation of church and state. One religion is not “the” religion. Christianity is a theory also. Yes, it is.

By Lee

January 13, 2005 01:29 PM | Link to this

Right on, Again!! But you left out rock-n-roll. Don’t forget that the gays and lesbians are responsible for Devil Music.

By Jerry

January 13, 2005 01:30 PM | Link to this

Why is it so difficult to teach evolution and “intelligent design� BOTH as THEORIES and let the students decide for themselves based on the facts?

Mark,

Because there are no facts regarding Creationism. Only what exists in the Bible and in the faith of people who follow it. The Bible is not a scientific research tool. And, faith is just that, faith. It’s believing in the unknown simply to provide an answer.

There is absolutely no basis of any kind for Creationism.

By Ralph

January 13, 2005 01:30 PM | Link to this

Is it impossible for some people to believe in God but not believe in creationism????

By Aleos

January 13, 2005 01:31 PM | Link to this

Bold WHAT KIND OF SUPREME BEING GAVE MEN NIPPLES!!?!?!

By B. Cosey

January 13, 2005 01:31 PM | Link to this

Congrad’s Georgia, this country is already on its way to Hell. We sure would not want Georgia to stand in the way.

By Colum

January 13, 2005 01:31 PM | Link to this

This must be a joke. How is it unconstitutional to label a theory as a theory. Are they now going to say that any organization that agrees with a Christian group is favoring religon?? This seems to be quite discriminatory towards Christians!

By Again

January 13, 2005 01:32 PM | Link to this

But I will not take the blame for any Tom Cruise movies.

By Sean

January 13, 2005 01:32 PM | Link to this

First, intelligent design was not at issue in this case. Second, intelligent design is simply creationism in disguise and an effort by creationists to undermine evolution(why are the only people clamoring to teach ID creationists or fundamental Christians?). Finally, as a Cobb county citizen and Christian I would like to apologize to those who have been offended (especially Debbie and Andrea) by my Bible-thumping brethren who have tried to stuff their beliefs down your throats.

By Hunter

January 13, 2005 01:34 PM | Link to this

The Cobb County families who started this debacle must be so angry that they’re grunting loudly and hurling their feces!

By Bill

January 13, 2005 01:34 PM | Link to this

My boys attend a private Christian school. They have been taught of Creationism as well as the evolution theory. One has to question why the government school system, that my tax money supports as well, lacks the courage and forthrightness to teach ALL theories. The sticker no more supported Christian religion then the teaching of evolution supports the religion of evolution.

By Richard

January 13, 2005 01:35 PM | Link to this

I agree with Judge Cooper’s decision. First of all, these stickers were placed on these books with State funds and on State property. They were placed on there at the request of those with a religious agenda. “Evil-ution” is a theory and should be taught as such but I just don’t understand the need for the stickers. There are a lot of theories taught in school but do we see stickers on books for all of them? The only reason this was singled out is because of the perceived conflict with creationism.

By Jerry

January 13, 2005 01:37 PM | Link to this

Ok, people…these books should be required reading for everyone:

The Structure of Evolutionary Theory - Stephen Jay Gould(http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?userid=fm6Aipv9vE&endeca=1&isbn=0674006135&itm=47)

The Seven Daughters of Eve: The Science That Reveals Our Genetic Ancestry - Brian Sykes (http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?userid=fm6Aipv9vE&endeca=1&isbn=0393323145&itm=7)

The Journey of Man: A Genetic Odyssey - Stephen Wells (http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbninquiry.asp?userid=fm6Aipv9vE&pwb=1&ean=9780812971460)

By Lee

January 13, 2005 01:38 PM | Link to this

Again, I thought gays and lesbians were responsible for Tom Cruise?!

By Marvin

January 13, 2005 01:38 PM | Link to this

How on earth can the statement on that sticker be taken to have RELIGIOUS content? There is no reference to anything religious there! The judge is way off base. Evolution is just an IDEA two guys came up with. No evidence can be found to support it! Why should we teach as fact something that is just a guess or an idea?

By KEN

January 13, 2005 01:38 PM | Link to this

And this decision comes from a frderal judge in a state that cannot even figure out a butterfly ballot… ‘nuff said…

By RICHARD

January 13, 2005 01:38 PM | Link to this

if you are secure knowing from where you came, you should focus on where you will end up.

By Chuck

January 13, 2005 01:39 PM | Link to this

I am amazed that many comments applauding the decision say we’re no longer backward in educating our students on biology. If these “intellectuals” would take the time to research what they are assuming, they would learn the evidence of evolution in the textbooks is fraudulent. A few examples:
- Paleontologists agree the Cambrian explosion proves multiple families (phyla) of life that totally contradicts evolutionary theory - the similar embryos diagram in most science textbooks is known in the scientific community to be false.
- the spontaneous beginnings of life in the textbook refers to a chemical experiment in the 1960s that uses chemicals that simply did not exist in the early Earth atmosphere - microbiology has proven that cells have complex parts that can only exist if all were functional contradicts evolutionary theory.
- the experiment of fruit flys with four wings does not show evolutionary mutation. The 4-winged fruit flys were created in a lab were mutants created using genetic modification.

Simply put, evolutionary theory is a dogmatic religious belief not supported by modern science. For the blog writers that still believe it, you are the ignorant, so do your research!

This trial may be a watershed. The time has come to expose evolutionary theory as outmoded as the one time belief of “intellectuals” that the world was flat and to stop educating our children on this “scientific” fraud.

By Mike Sodos

January 13, 2005 01:39 PM | Link to this

This is the best news I’ve heard in weeks!

By Nathan

January 13, 2005 01:39 PM | Link to this

Ralp, believing in God doesnt get people anywhere. Only Faith and repentance does. Jesus was crucified by people who believed in God. Can you believe the Bible and hold to evolution. No you cannot.

By Hannity

January 13, 2005 01:39 PM | Link to this

Jerry-

Do those books have stickers? I ain’t touching them unless they do?

By John

January 13, 2005 01:40 PM | Link to this

This seems to be quite discriminatory towards Christians!

You’re joking, right? You realize that there are Many Many Many Christians out there who are not fundamentalists, do not believe in an abtolute, literal interpretation of the bible, and who actually support evolutionary theory?

At least get your terminology right and say “this seems discriminatory towards twenty-first century Luddites-who-would feel-far-more-comfortable-living-under-the-thumb-of-a-theocratic-Talibanesque-regime-than-in-the-free-country-they-claim-to-believe-in-Christians”

By richard

January 13, 2005 01:41 PM | Link to this

jerry - there is one more book to read: The Holy Bible

By william

January 13, 2005 01:41 PM | Link to this

To Sean, the only religion being crammed down anyones throats in the government school system is the one that supports the “theory” of evolution as fact. If you were to actually put any ceribrial activity to the matter, you would see that the science teacher have a captive audience and the children are required, therefore, to regurgitate back to them what is being crammed down their throats in order to get a passing grade. Wake up, parents. Pull your kids out of the government indoctrination centers and DEMAND that the government return the money that is stolen from you in the name of education so you can CHOOSE who that money is spent in the name of your child’s education.

By Jessica

January 13, 2005 01:42 PM | Link to this

I am so ashamed to live in such a corrupt world. This decision is a true example of what is wrong todays society. There is a strong need for God in the lives of our children every day. They are children. They will be tempted to believe what their teachers teach.

By Lauren

January 13, 2005 01:43 PM | Link to this

When prayer came out of schools…in went violence, metal detectors, guns, knives, security guards, bombs, illicit affairs between TEACHERS and students. In other words…out went GOD and in came Hell!! Are we sure we still want to fight with the One Who created us for His glory!!! He said it, we Christians believe it and that settles it! Have a wonderful day!

By Jerry

January 13, 2005 01:43 PM | Link to this

Hannity, nope. heh heh

Oh…more reading for you folks:

Introduction to Exobiology

By Ralph

January 13, 2005 01:44 PM | Link to this

If God wanted SHEEP why did he give us free will?

By Larry

January 13, 2005 01:44 PM | Link to this

There is far more faith required to believe evolution than Genesis. Evolution requires that changes over time in the genome ADD information. In other words to get from a reptile to a bird, genetic information for wings must be ADDED to the reptile genes. This has never, but never been observed. Every single genetic mutation ever observed, even if it resulted in a positive effect, was a LOSS of genetic information. Evolution is impossible, has never been observed and is totally the product of wishful thinking (faith?) on the part of its adherents.

By Mike

January 13, 2005 01:44 PM | Link to this

I don’t see how the words that were used endorse religion. It’s difficult to understand that supposedly some of these judges went to school. The public can fight back. Bill boards with the same message on it or private property, such as a home lot across the street from the school, bumper stickers, and yes even the school newspaper if they have a reader’s column to express views should do the trick,also Church maquees.The judge would be powerless in these instances. And that’s called the beautiful part.

By Jerry

January 13, 2005 01:45 PM | Link to this

Oops….fixed links for those books:

The Structure of Evolutionary Theory - Stephen Jay Gould

The Seven Daughters of Eve: The Science That Reveals Our Genetic Ancestry - Brian Sykes

The Journey of Man: A Genetic Odyssey - Stephen Wells

By Adam

January 13, 2005 01:45 PM | Link to this

If evolution is a “flawed” theory, how come I have the same number of ribs as my wife? And what theory covers the making of women from a single bone?

By Gabriel

January 13, 2005 01:46 PM | Link to this

Some of you people are f*** nutcases. Really.

By Larry

January 13, 2005 01:46 PM | Link to this

See: www.answersingenesis.org

By Nathan

January 13, 2005 01:48 PM | Link to this

I’m not going to speculate who is and who isnt in the kingdom of heaven, that is for God to decide (and yes He does decide). I am however going to say that you cannot believe the Bible if you hold to the evolution theory. We dont have the right to pick out what we like and dislike from scripture, its all truth. Every single word of it. Spirituality rules over science…God is not bound by the laws of science.

By Lee

January 13, 2005 01:49 PM | Link to this

To Andrea and Debby of Cobb Cty: I feel your pain too and I’m a Christian. You should have the right not to feel excluded or discriminated against and the ruling is a good start.

By Sean

January 13, 2005 01:49 PM | Link to this

Look, religion has its place—at home and at church, synagogue, mosque, etc. If you want prayer and God in school then send your kids to a Christian school or home school. Prayer and religion have no place in today’s public schools. While I am a Christian, I know for a fact that my children attend Cobb schools with kids who are Jewish, Muslim, agnostics, and other beliefs. Evolution is by definition a scientific theory, not religion.

By Nebenankhamun El

January 13, 2005 01:49 PM | Link to this

Keep your religious dogmas to yourselves. Religion has NO place in public schools. If you want to “believe” that the planet is 6000 years old, and that evolution is wholeheartedly false, then you are on the wrong planet, and you are likely a follower of the Torah, Bible, or Koran. That’s okay.. It really is; it’s your right. However, what about we Buddhists, Athiests, Hindus, Nuwaubians, Scientologists, etc etc.???? Be fair for all, or none.

Seperation of “church” and state is Constitutional. If you don’t like the Constitution…. catch a flight to the Middle East. They have plenty of room.

By Larry

January 13, 2005 01:50 PM | Link to this

You have the same number of ribs as your wife genius because removing a body part is not something passed down in one’s genes. If you cut off a rats tail and it has kids do you think they’ll be born without tails? Thanks though for the example of the kind of ‘scientific’ thinking evolutionists use.

By Marvin

January 13, 2005 01:50 PM | Link to this

Adam, you DON’t have the same number of ribs as your wife. Check it out.

By Erin

January 13, 2005 01:50 PM | Link to this

Evolution is not a belief, atheistic or not. Evolution does not address the origins of life—that’s called abiogenesis. Evolution is science. There are no scientific theories that rise to the level of “competing” with evolution. Evolution is observable and provable—it explains drug-resistant illnesses and insecticide-resistant bugs. Creationism and intelligent design are not observable or provable. Creationism/ID are based on (1) a dodgy book written for ancient sheepherders and (2)warm, fuzzy feelings, neither of which is worth anything in a science classroom.

By William

January 13, 2005 01:51 PM | Link to this

Several folks have commented about Cobb Countys policies in relation to Georgia’s low SAT test scores. Guess what? Cobb has the highest SAT scores in the state!

Having an insert about having an open mind on an unproven theory (and there are MANY holes in that theory) does not make anyone less intelligent. Many folks think that if you believe in God that makes you somehow unintelligent. Personally I think it takes a lot more faith to believe that everything just fell in to perfect order (from DNA to the human body, to the universe) than believing that we were created. No one has ever explained how life evolved from that which was not living. There are gaps in the “theory” too numerous to mention.

By Lee

January 13, 2005 01:51 PM | Link to this

Hey AJC. You were asleep at the wheel when Gabriel weighed in with his “prose.”

By Ann

January 13, 2005 01:52 PM | Link to this

Ishmael

By Jerry

January 13, 2005 01:52 PM | Link to this

Larry,

See:

Talk Origins

Jessica,

People were rather devout religious folk back in the 40s/50s, too, eh? And guess what was going on? Blacks couldn’t eat in the same restaurants as whites; wives abused by their husbands had no recourse.

By Ralph

January 13, 2005 01:53 PM | Link to this

it’s called The THEORY of evolution. It is not fact and is not taught that way. **If you want your child to be open to other views (namely yours) teach the child the difference between fact and theory.

By Randy

January 13, 2005 01:55 PM | Link to this

Macro-evolution is a joke. We will take care it down the road!

By Margaret Parker

January 13, 2005 01:55 PM | Link to this

It’s outrageous that it took this long to get the evolution stickers removed. At least now Cobb County students will be ready for science classes in college.

By Bill

January 13, 2005 01:58 PM | Link to this

Oh,…and if those of you who seem to think you know what is in the Constitution would actually read it, you would find that no where is there found the phrase “separation of church and state”. The phrase was made popular in the modern era by JFK in 1960 during his Presidential run when asked if he would hold a higer aligience to the Vatican or the Constitution. In fact, the only way the Constitution can be violated in the way of religion is if the Federal, State, or Local government set up or supported a specific church or religion,….or denied anyone the ability to freely practice their beliefs. Really, you narrow-minded people get so worked up over a little sticker. Kinda shows how insecure you are in YOUR beliefs.

By Randy

January 13, 2005 01:59 PM | Link to this

To all those who believe in evolution, who do you think created the universe in the beginning? Things don’t appear out of thin air without help. So you are not off the hook, you must still bond with the creator “Jesus”.

By Larry

January 13, 2005 02:00 PM | Link to this

“Evolution is observable and provableâ€â€?it explains drug-resistant illnesses and insecticide-resistant bugs.”

Yes, and those resistances are due to LOSS OF GENETIC INFORMATION in the microbes and bugs. Remember too, you start with a bug and end with a bug, resistant though he may be. You’re talking about micro-evolution. This is one of the ways evolutionists try to fool the public by equating micro-evolution with macro-evolution. Two totally different things. To prove macro-evolution one must start with a bug and end with a person. THAT’S never been observed!

By Adam

January 13, 2005 02:01 PM | Link to this

For all those people who have the answers: Why did God create woman from such a cheap cut of meat?

By Ralph

January 13, 2005 02:01 PM | Link to this

Let’s have some fun,

Has anyone here read ‘The Da Vinci Code’?

By Rick

January 13, 2005 02:01 PM | Link to this

We can teach creationism in the classroom only when pastors preach photosynthesis from the pulpit. Knowledge derived from anyone’s faith belongs to that person alone. We can not allow any one group to usurp our public agenda. Was it not the Mayflower that brought those who feared religous persecution because they did not share the identical beliefs of the Anglican church. There are so many who proclaim that our nation is based on Judeo-christian values. Yet, I would argue that our nation was founded upon the individual interpretation of our people: the freedom to choose how/how not to worship, what to do for a living, how to raise your family, etc. The GA court, in one it its few common-sense rulings, has upheld this ancient American tradition. Bravo!

By Mike

January 13, 2005 02:01 PM | Link to this

Even many scientists dispute the theory of evolution. There are are many intelligent pepole that place no credence in the theory. If you think through things, doesn’t it make as much sense to believe we were crated by a higher power, than to think that all people evolved from lower amnimals, which evolved from lower animals, ans so on, until it was started by a single-cell creature.

By johnson

January 13, 2005 02:01 PM | Link to this

Hey William (1:41 pm),

I lost my ceribrial. Glad you found it. But please don’t use it. It has a mind of its own.

By Local Evolver

January 13, 2005 02:03 PM | Link to this

Kudos to the judge! I liked his reasoning behind the decision. And the most atrocious comment of the day award goes to Linwood Gunn:

“Science and religion are related and they’re not mutually exclusive,” school district attorney Linwood Gunn said in an AP report. “This sticker was an effort to get past that conflict and to teach good science.”

huh?! science has nothing to with religion. do not let this man near your kids please. ;)

Think for yourself and think outside the box folks!

By Dawn Turlington

January 13, 2005 02:03 PM | Link to this

Evolution is a scientific theory. Creation is a scientific theory. Have a class where they are both unleashed on the students and let them decide how to believe. Religion should be tought at home and at church, however when the State says your child is mine and keps them up to 8 hours a day in the classroom and teachs contrarry beliefs from home the result can cause confusion with the student. It erodes at the full development of the future citizen. A good debate type atmosphere for out origins would be the best approach I believe. I do believe in creation and think it can hold it’s own with evolution. Both take faith to accept.

By Jeremy

January 13, 2005 02:03 PM | Link to this

Well the minority won again. If you want to believe somehow we evolved from monkeys you can think that. But I believe we were created in the image of the creator. If you want to think that a big bang theory also happened you can have that as well. Wake up people Darwin himself recanted before he died. Read his book, it makes no sense. The people who write these text books just pull out what they want you to believe. There is no link between me and monkey or any other creature. WAKE UP!!!!!!! It is a horrible thoery that what it is a THEORY!!!! and many people take it as fact. One day you will know the truth that God created the heavens and the EARTH and everything in both.

By Adam

January 13, 2005 02:03 PM | Link to this

Since theories are not proven… lets test the theory of gravity by going to the tallest building in Cobb and jumping off - since it is just a theory, you should be just fine.

By AlBruAn

January 13, 2005 02:04 PM | Link to this

Sean would have us believe “that the Constitution says “the state shall ‘make no law respecting an establishment of religion.’” when the fact is the Constitution says “Congress shall make no law respecting establishment of religion…” Were it otherwise, he wouldn’t have prefaced part of what the Constitution actually states with the phrase “the state shall”.

The fact that some federal judges say the Establishment Clause applies to any and all governmental body points out the biases of those judges. For that matter, the fact that evolutionists want to cram evolution down the throats of students w/o the presentation of other theories of origin points out their religious bias…that in favor of humanism.

By Mike

January 13, 2005 02:04 PM | Link to this

Kids could also wear a T-shirt to school which does exist that says, “Ain’t no scientist is going to make a monkey out of me”. We could send a shirt to that crackpot judge.

By James

January 13, 2005 02:04 PM | Link to this

I agree with the wording of the sticker, that evolutionary theory is a scientific theory that continues to be tested. Theories really are not facts - theories can link facts together and attempt to explain them. But, it is possible that multiple theories can explain the same facts. This is the case in gravity, which in many situations can be modeled by both Newtonian mechanics as well as Einstein’s relativity. What is troubling is that the level of science education is so low in this country that adults do not realize the distinction between theory, fact, and religious philosophy. Theories get tested time and again by comparing to facts, whereas religious ideas rarely are tested - those that do question religion are usually labelled heritics. I also think it a shame that any discussion of this issue quickly becomes polarized into one of only two opinions. Either you believe in a young-earth creationist view or you are an atheist. There are many alternatives to these extremes, which almost never get a voice in the media.

By Erin

January 13, 2005 02:05 PM | Link to this

I would like every Christian wailing and gnashing their teeth on this blog to sit down and read every word of their Bibles this weekend. Read it without any creative interpretations pasted onto the words, just read what’s there. By Monday you’ll be wondering just what kind of hogwash you’ve been swallowing all your life.

By Jerry

January 13, 2005 02:05 PM | Link to this

Ralph, I take it you don’t believe in gravity either, since it’s just a theory, too.

You people who believe in Creationism fail to understand what a theory means in scientific terms. It would seem your own education has failed you.

By Steve

January 13, 2005 02:05 PM | Link to this

Ok lets get something straight.

Evolution is a fact, it’s an observed, documented reality of our world.

The theory of evolution is how the observed fact of evolution occurs, natural selection is a key point of that theory and is NOT a fact.

The theory of Evolution is our only scientifically based explanation of how the observed phenomenon of evolution occurs and as such it is the ONLY thing that should be in science books and taught in science class. Would the arguement be made that we should not teach newtonian physics exclusively in the public school system (Even though quantum and relativistic physics exist)?

The science taught in our public school systems should be presented in a concrete manner, leave the critical thinking and evaulation to college courses.

By Randy

January 13, 2005 02:05 PM | Link to this

Adam, It’s the “LAW” of gravity. Macro-evolution is a joke.

By Chris

January 13, 2005 02:06 PM | Link to this

It’s simple. Teach evolution in schools because there is at least a fair amount of evidence to back it up. Where is any evidence to back up creationism? Don’t tell me the bible because there is absolutely no proof to back up anything written in that book. How would you like it if the people who didn’t believe in god were to put a sticker on the bible with the same sort of message? If you would like your kids to believe in creationism then teach them it yourselves or send them to a special school. Not that hard people. I’m not 100% sure about this but I’m willing to bet that in most text books, evolution is already called “The theory of evolution”. Now you people who wanted the stickers can use them as gags to keep your mouths shut. Good day!

By John

January 13, 2005 02:06 PM | Link to this

Nathan, your ignorance knows no bounds…

We dont have the right to pick out what we like and dislike from scripture, its all truth. Every single word of it.

The Bible is rife with contradictions and sections that are ignored. Eaten any shellfish lately? Abomination. Worn blended fabrics? Abomination. Not sacrificed a ram on the temple steps? Ooops, you’ve failed in your duty as it is laid out in Leviticus. Fundamentalists only claim “infallibility” for the things they like.

Talk about the educational system failing…

By bill

January 13, 2005 02:07 PM | Link to this

Once again, my boys attend a private Christian school where ALL theories of the origin of man are discussed and taught. The school, although very clear on it’s stand on the subject, believes it is in the best interest of the student to teach them of all beliefs, theories and religions. The child comes out far more prepared and far more advanced the the average skull-full-of-mush being processed out of the government school system.

By Randy

January 13, 2005 02:07 PM | Link to this

STEVE, Evolution is not a fact, where have you got this information? Evolution violates the scientific laws of Uniformity and Causity.

By Larry

January 13, 2005 02:08 PM | Link to this

Though the existence of a force called ‘gravity’ is a theory because it cannot be observed directly, the result of that force can be. The result is consistent and can be tested and proven over and over with the same results. The result of this testing and proving is called the Laws of Gravity. List for me the Laws of Evolution. What? There are none? Wonder why that is? Mean time, don’t jump off any buildings.

By John

January 13, 2005 02:09 PM | Link to this

Well, I know where I came from. Maybe this judge is not as smart.

By Ralph

January 13, 2005 02:10 PM | Link to this

Dawn T.,

Creationism is not a scientific theory and has abolutly no scientic evidence to back it.

Creationism is FAITH and I believe that everyone should be able to follow their own faith, but not where it may be an afront to the faith of others.

By bill

January 13, 2005 02:11 PM | Link to this

“I lost my ceribrial. Glad you found it. But please don’t use it. It has a mind of its own”…..why would I want to be the first one to use it?

By Randy

January 13, 2005 02:11 PM | Link to this

See prayer has been out of school for only 40 years and look at half these posts. Half you all believe in macro-evolution and it isn’t any more real than a magic trick. Although Newsweek did a poll recently and nation wide only 13% of people believed in macro-evolution.

By Erin

January 13, 2005 02:13 PM | Link to this

Creation is a scientific theory. This is what science education can become under the influence of Christian sheep. What kind of moron confuses an article of faith with a scientific theory?

By Jerry

January 13, 2005 02:13 PM | Link to this

Randy,

http://www.talkorigins.org

There you’ll find the notion of Creationism debunked. Creationism is not a scientific theory. It’s pure faith and cannot be investigated using the scientific method.

By JEF

January 13, 2005 02:14 PM | Link to this

The arguments have become so spurious on both sides that the real issues are being lost. I think the legal ruling regarding the constitutionality of placing such a statement in textbooks is very questionable. The testimony from Miller about scientific theories being different from everyday theories was very misleading. Of course some theories are more sound than others, in science as in other areas, but they are theories nonetheless. So while the role of Darwininan mechanisms in observable adaptive biological change is well supported, their importance for producing the diversity of lifeforms on earth is much more theoretical. There was nothing intrinsically religious about the statement. But it was overly broad in talking about “evolution” as some kind of monolith. This mistake is almost universal, though, and is the biggest obstacle to serious debate.

By Michael

January 13, 2005 02:14 PM | Link to this

There has to be separation of church and state. Says who? These words do not exist in the Constitution, Bill of Rights or any other founding document.

Christianity is a theory. That has to be the most ridiculous statement to date.

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. God created great whales and every living creature. God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Man created evolution.

By Mike

January 13, 2005 02:15 PM | Link to this

OK, so macroevolution is bad. What about microevolution? Can you tell me the difference? Do you know?

By Randy

January 13, 2005 02:15 PM | Link to this

Actually macro-evolution will be over turned in the next 15-20 years. There is no evidence to back it up and the truth is coming out. It will take a few years to filter through the court system, so you people who think macro-evolution is real(the people who have not thought it through) live it up for now. Because the truth will surface soon.

By CJ

January 13, 2005 02:17 PM | Link to this

Well if all you evolutionists believe that this is scientific fact then why not take advantage of Dr. Kent Hovinds offer of $250,000. I know you probably could use it. (see link)or cut & paste into your browser.

http://www.drdino.com/Ministry/250k/index.jsp

By William

January 13, 2005 02:18 PM | Link to this

Adam/Jerry, before you go putting down other’s education, you may want to know that it’s the “Law” of gravity, not the “Theory” of gravity.

Steve, evolution within speciies may be a fact. The theory of evolution as the beginning of life or changing from one species to another, is not a fact.

By Ralph

January 13, 2005 02:18 PM | Link to this

Jerry you misunderstood me, Evolution is still just a theory. But it is a well supported theory. My comment was aimed at someone who claimed it was being taught as fact

By Gary B.

January 13, 2005 02:19 PM | Link to this

I’m glad the right decision was made in this case…I’m so tired of the religous right trying to impose their beliefs on others…

By Sean

January 13, 2005 02:19 PM | Link to this

AlBruAn—you are correct, it does say Congress. However, EVERY federal judge would tell you that the Establishment Clause applies to state and local governments as well as federal governments. Almost all of the Bill of Rights are now applied to the states (just one reason that African-Americans can vote and we no longer have “separate but equal.”). I don’t favor one religion over another—I favor keeping religion out of public schools. Again, if you want religion taught to your child do it at home, send them to a private school, or do it at church.

By Randy

January 13, 2005 02:20 PM | Link to this

Like in the movie Jurrasic Park, Actor says GOD CREATES DINOSAURES, GOD DESTROYES DINOSAURES, GOD CREATS MAN, MAN DESTROYES GOD.

By cj

January 13, 2005 02:20 PM | Link to this

Also check out his entire site while you’re there. You might learn something. www.drdino.com

By Larry

January 13, 2005 02:21 PM | Link to this

Mike, micro-evolution is changes within a species. Dogs having long or short hair for example. This certainly happens and has been often observed. Macro-evolution is a change from one species to another such as reptiles becoming birds. This has NEVER been observed and is in fact scientifically impossible for many, many reasons. See http://answersingenesis.org

By Jerry

January 13, 2005 02:21 PM | Link to this

My bad, Ralph. :)

By Randy

January 13, 2005 02:23 PM | Link to this

GOOD QUESTION WHY DOESN’T SOMEONE TAKE THE CHALLENGES OF CHRISTIANS, ONE OFFER IS $250,000 AND I SAW ONE ABOUT A YEAR AGO FOR $100,000 THAT IF YOU CAN DEFEAT THEM IN A DEBATE ON EVOLUTION THEY WILL PAY YOU THAT MONEY. YET NO EVOLUTIONIST HAS TAKEN THE CHALLENGE.

By Jerry

January 13, 2005 02:23 PM | Link to this

*Well if all you evolutionists believe that this is scientific fact then why not take advantage of Dr. Kent Hovinds offer of $250,000. I know you probably could use it. (see link)or cut & paste into your browser.

http://www.drdino.com/Ministry/250k/index.jsp*

CJ,

What you fail to realize is Hovind is distorting the term evolution to mean the creation of the universe. That is not what evolution is.

Why don’t read the books I’ve listed above and do some Googling for abiogenesis and exobiology.

By Larry

January 13, 2005 02:24 PM | Link to this

sorry, messed up the link

http://www.answersingenesis.org

By Mike

January 13, 2005 02:24 PM | Link to this

Larry- I was being sarcastic. I have a PhD in chemistry and I know quite a bit about science. Thanks anyway.

By Mark

January 13, 2005 02:24 PM | Link to this

Noone has ever said alternative origination beliefs cannot be taught. They have said they should not be taught in the SCIENCE classroom. There is absolutely NO scientific fact supporting creationism. If schools wish to teach alternative beliefs on the subject, a new course should be created at the respective insitutions but, in no way, should it be included in the SCIENCE curriculum.

By m

January 13, 2005 02:24 PM | Link to this

Finally, a victory for those Georgians who do not wish to continue living in the 19th century. I guess now, I can put my covered wagon up on the blocks where it belongs. that this was an issue is just another reason I will gladly take on the corruption of a chicago govt when i move this year.

By johnson

January 13, 2005 02:25 PM | Link to this

Michael (2:14 pm)- Man created open heart surgery, pop tarts, electric blankets, mass murder, dyed hair, dog collars, condoms, stupid blogs, evolution, and creation. God gave us the brain to do all of it. Some of us just choose to use what God gave us, instead of blindly selecting certain sections of a Book written by man and claiming we know it all so leave us alone.

By Mike

January 13, 2005 02:26 PM | Link to this

Randy, please hit caps lock. No need to yell.

By John

January 13, 2005 02:27 PM | Link to this

Probably because the debate would consist of the rational scientist stating facts, making deductions, and drawing reasonable conclusions, and the irrational religious fanatic standing still quoting Genesis over and over. I wouldn’t want to subject myself to that kind of fallacy-fest either. Except, I seem to be doing it now for free…

By Louis

January 13, 2005 02:27 PM | Link to this

When will people understand that the CONSTITUTION is written to limit the power of the Federal Government and not the STATES or more to the point the PEOPLE! Also contrary to most beliefs the Supreme Court is not the final Authority, but the States themselves whom reserved the right to nullify any Un-CONSTITUTIONAL Law from the FEDERAL Government. Consider this fact: What little power that the STATES were willing to give to the FEDERAL Government was written into the CONSTITUTION and was severely limited for a reason. They RESERVED to the PEOPLE via the STATES all other POWER! It is the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, which is being LIMITED by the CONSTITUION to ensure “WE THE PEOPLE�, do not have our INALIANABLE RIGHTS as granted by OUR MAKER taken away such as with the BRITISH RULE!

By Larry

January 13, 2005 02:27 PM | Link to this

Try a few more english classes then Mike to go with that PhD. Your sarcism didn’t come across in print.

By Lee

January 13, 2005 02:27 PM | Link to this

Randy,

UNLOCK your caps key.

By Jerry

January 13, 2005 02:28 PM | Link to this

William, read this:

http://users.whsmithnet.co.uk/paulbird/gravbook/#whatisgravity

By Gayle

January 13, 2005 02:30 PM | Link to this

I am so glad! It’s no wonder we’re the laughingstock of the world.

By Larry

January 13, 2005 02:31 PM | Link to this

I’m just too impressed Mike. However, your sarcasim didn’t come across in print. Perhaps a few writing classes are in order to cap off that PhD.

By Randy

January 13, 2005 02:32 PM | Link to this

STILL THE QUESTION REMAINS, WHEN THE UNIVERSE CAME INTO EXISTANCE, HOW EVER LONG AGO THAT WAS, DID IT APPEAR OUT OF THIN AIR BY ITSELF OR DID IT HAVE SOME HELP? IF I REMEMBER PHYSICS CLASS, THINGS DON’T APPEAR OUT OF THIN AIR WITHOUT HELP(IF THEY DO I NEED SEVERAL MILLION TO APPEAR) SO A CREATOR DOES EXIST, ABSOLUTELY. THE ONLY ARGUMENT IS THAT THE UNIVERSE IS ETERNAL, ALWAYS EXISTED, THIS WAS DISPROVED BY THE SECOND LAW OF THERMODYNAMICS AND ALSO I REMEMBER IN ASTRONOMY CLASS THAT THE SUN WILL GO INTO A SUPER NOVA IN 5 MILLION YEARS. SO THE UNIVERSE IS NOT ETERNAL, THERE IS A CREATOR. THINK IT THROUGH!

By cj

January 13, 2005 02:32 PM | Link to this

That’s what I wanna know. Thanks Randy! :)

By Randy

January 13, 2005 02:23 PM | Link to this

GOOD QUESTION WHY DOESN’T SOMEONE TAKE THE CHALLENGES OF CHRISTIANS, ONE OFFER IS $250,000 AND I SAW ONE ABOUT A YEAR AGO FOR $100,000 THAT IF YOU CAN DEFEAT THEM IN A DEBATE ON EVOLUTION THEY WILL PAY YOU THAT MONEY. YET NO EVOLUTIONIST HAS TAKEN THE CHALLENGE.

By cj

January 13, 2005 02:34 PM | Link to this

P.S. & that $250,000 offer has YET to be collected after 15 years…..I wonder why!

By Randy

January 13, 2005 02:34 PM | Link to this

If Mike has a scientific background why doesn’t he have a valid argument? Sorry about the caps.

By Sean

January 13, 2005 02:35 PM | Link to this

Louis—you are wrong. That issue was settled about 140 years ago, from 1861-65 (google “American Civil War”). The states have no power to ignore federal law—its called the “Supremacy Clause” and reads “This Constitution, and the laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof…shall be Supreme Law of the land; and the Judges in every state shall be bound thereby, any thing in the Constitution or Laws of any state to the contrary notwithstanding.” The states are required to abide by rulings of the US Supreme Court (Roe v. Wade is a good example). Oh, and the “unalienable rights” stuff is from the Declaration of Independence, which has NO legal authority.

By Tim

January 13, 2005 02:36 PM | Link to this

This is one of the reasons that the stereotype of the ignorant, hillibilly southerner endures.

It’s about time for Georgia to catch up with the rest of the country. Is it any coincidence that Georgia consistantly has the lowest SAT scores in the country?

By bill

January 13, 2005 02:36 PM | Link to this

OK, once again……..those who believe in creation as the origin of mankind want ALL theories taught. Those who believe in the big bang theory/evolution from lower life forms as the origins of mankind what to LIMIT what is studied to only THEIR beliefs? Uh, tell me again, WHO is the open-minded ones here?

By Jerry

January 13, 2005 02:37 PM | Link to this

Randy, lose the ALL-CAPS. Learn your netiquette.

Also, Hovind has been debunked many times over. He misinterprets, exaggerates, takes things out of context, and is intentionally ambiguous in many respects. That drdino.com site of his is a joke.

Also, the Theory of Evolution, to repeat myself, is not about the origin of life or the creation of the universe. It’s about how species change over time to adapt to their environment.

Read those books I listed above, esp. The Seven Daughters of Eve. That shows how tracking mitochondrial DNA shows humans can be traced back to seven different women.

By lisa

January 13, 2005 02:38 PM | Link to this

What a shame

By Randy

January 13, 2005 02:38 PM | Link to this

The problem with this case is that it wasn’t strong evough, instead of trying to have a * in the books, we should go for the gold, eliminate macro-evolution entirely.

By Andrea

January 13, 2005 02:39 PM | Link to this

Thank you, Lee & Sean. Your sensitivity to Debbie & me embodies what true Christianity is all about. Lee, you blamed gays & lesbians for the evils in the world & uh, “devil music” (rock & roll). Sorry, my friend, but that’s a generalization & I’m living proof. I’m no lesbian by any means, but I’m a rock songwriter/singer/guitarist & I pray, worship, try to lead a decent life etc. Also, haven’t you ever heard of Christian rock music?

By Mike

January 13, 2005 02:39 PM | Link to this

Sarcasm isn’t taught in English classes. Spelling is, and “sarcasim” as you write, isn’t correct. Maybe you should try the English and perhaps science classes.

By Mike

January 13, 2005 02:40 PM | Link to this

Larry- I didn’t realize, but you misspelled it twice! That is precious. Mike

By Atlanta Philosopher

January 13, 2005 02:41 PM | Link to this

Thank You God,

The only reason I can see for people not believing in some form of evolution is, they have not evolved themselves, therefore not having the experience of it. Im sick and tired of this sick State and its populations’ sick beliefs.

Anyone disagreeing with the ruling should have their human being tickets pulled, let them be the animals that they apparently are. I do think my dog Max believes whole-heartedly in evolution though, so thats not the answer for them.

By J. Collins

January 13, 2005 02:41 PM | Link to this

I’m glad that the Cobb system is being forced to remove the evolution “disclaimer.” It is a science class, folks - not Sunday school. I had a great 12yrs of schooling in Cobb and found that the drama that ensued over the controversy only hurt the credibility of one of GA’s greatest systems.

By Larry

January 13, 2005 02:41 PM | Link to this

Question: What’s the difference between a tenured science professor at a state university and God?

Answer: God doesn’t think He’s a science professor!

By Marty

January 13, 2005 02:41 PM | Link to this

Another case of where a Federal judge thinks he is God and able to dictate an atheistic religion to the masses. Lenin would have loved it!

By Mike

January 13, 2005 02:41 PM | Link to this

Randy, you missed my (much) earlier post. I wrote something about DNA.

By Jon

January 13, 2005 02:41 PM | Link to this

I believe in evolution, but in a country where I thought we allowed tolerance of other views, even those we disagree with. Evolution doesn’t answer the origin of universe questions, are we saying a student can’t even ask the question in class that might lead to a [oh no!] religious response? sounds like China Cobb County to me!

By Jerry

January 13, 2005 02:41 PM | Link to this

P.S. & that $250,000 offer has YET to be collected after 15 years…..I wonder why!

CJ, I told you why. Because Hovind has limited evolution to a specific definition of his that distorts the true meaning of evolution. He’s stretching the term to mean the creation of the universe.

Hovind is an attention-whore.

By Larry

January 13, 2005 02:42 PM | Link to this

Sorry Mike, us non-PhDs do make mistakes at times!

By bill

January 13, 2005 02:43 PM | Link to this

“Be fair for all, or none”..Nebenankhamun El, that’s ALL we are asking for. Or are you one of those who exclude us from “all”?

By George

January 13, 2005 02:43 PM | Link to this

How exactly does this promote Christianity? If it promotes Christianity, does it not also promote Judiaism and Islam? Please do not pretend that christians are the only ones who believe the theory.

Please keep an open-mind and allow all things to be discussed in the classroom. The First Ammendment gives us the freedom of religion and that there must not be any law establishing a state religion. A sticker in a book hardly makes a law; and truly, the sticker doesn’t even establish a religion. The theory of creation is not based solely on christian beliefs.

Again, I say, please keep an open mind.

By Jason

January 13, 2005 02:44 PM | Link to this

I am personally very disappointed in this ruling. I truly hoped the judge would simply expand the sticker to remind students that gravity is also just a theory, not fact.

By Jerry

January 13, 2005 02:45 PM | Link to this

Another case of where a Federal judge thinks he is God and able to dictate an atheistic religion to the masses. Lenin would have loved it!

Marty,

In case you missed it, our government cannot respect any one religion over another. That’s why we have the Constitution and a secular government. If you want to form a Christian Theocracy and join the ranks of the Dominionists and Christian Reconstructionists, then go form your own country/government someplace else.

Keep Your Religion Out Of My Government

There Is No God In “Government”

By Michael

January 13, 2005 02:46 PM | Link to this

johnson, the Bible was authored by God and penned by the prophets and the Apostles. Please forgive me, I didn’t know quoting scripture was a mindless task. God also created peanuts, popcorn and crackerjacks, whatever that means.

By Jon

January 13, 2005 02:46 PM | Link to this

The shame in all this is that those of you that are so adamant about teaching evolution as fact and ignoring the Creator are the very ones whose kids need to know the truth… because their parents are deceived. The truth is that Georgia has stood firm on the moral and Christian principles that this country was founded on…. until now. Shame on you!!! Shame on the rest of us for standing by and letting it happen!!!

Evolution can be compared to putting all the different pieces of a computer in a box and shaking it up and finding an assembled computer inside. That just doesn’t compute…

By arnold

January 13, 2005 02:47 PM | Link to this

This ruling gives the Muslims, whose daily prayers insist the universe was divinely created, another reason to hate us.

By Jerry

January 13, 2005 02:47 PM | Link to this

How exactly does this promote Christianity? If it promotes Christianity, does it not also promote Judiaism and Islam? Please do not pretend that christians are the only ones who believe the theory.

George, how many Jews and Muslims do you see trying to get Creationism taught in schools?

Answer? ZERO.

It’s only fundamental Christians that are trying to do this.

By Sarah

January 13, 2005 02:47 PM | Link to this

Yay! I have a political science degree where most of my studies focused on Civil Liberties and Constitutional Law -it’s very nice to see a ruling based on LAW and not religious beliefs. The need for Separation of Church and State is greater now than ever…as evidenced by the Bush administration’s push for faith-based EVERYTHING.

Being a Cobb County resident, I was insulted that my tax dollars paid for the stickers. I wondered where I was going to send my kids to school - because I want them to learn science, not mysticism.

If you want your children taught creationism/intelligent design instead of evolution - may I suggest sending your child to a religious school?

By Victoria

January 13, 2005 02:48 PM | Link to this

Fact: Evolution is a theory.

By Lee

January 13, 2005 02:48 PM | Link to this

Ralph,

I knew someone would eventually bring up “The Da Vinci Code”. I’m reading it now and am really enjoying it. What a masterful and imaginative piece of writing. I’m ready to hold it up as an example of how a novel can be written to be taken as fact. The Bible is an assembled document from the writings of various authors, and was assembled hundreds of years after the life of Jesus by men of religion who had a political agenda. Anyone who has studied the actual history of the Book will know that you must take it on faith as it’s “historical” accuracy is not defendable. Neither is Da Vinci’s code. But they both make compelling reading.

By P. R. Jones

January 13, 2005 02:48 PM | Link to this

I’m not mad at anybody, and I guess I can’t comment any better than T.C. Ford & Nathan White. Our schools (and society, in general) seem to be quickly spiraling downward - and as I read through some of the comments I am totally convinced of that. If scientists weren’t around (and none of them were) when life began, they don’t have the FINAL word, which definitely makes evolution a “theory”. Yes, we definitely need to teach science and we don’t necessarily need a sticker to defend our position… but (sad to say) so many Americans have become a bunch of intellectual fools and want to take our children down the same path. I love this country and the people in it, but real Christians must pray now more than ever! In the end, it’s really OK because everyone can rest assured that God will NOT be mocked!!

By Jon

January 13, 2005 02:49 PM | Link to this

Marty: no religion is a belief system, and thus is a religion also, commonly called secular humanism. i’m one. don’t be shy about your bias. no one is neutral or 100% objective. i agree with keeping God out of schools, but that leaves only humans as ‘god’. right? right

By Michael

January 13, 2005 02:50 PM | Link to this

Yes, God is in Government,it is all over the money that is printed.

By Carlo

January 13, 2005 02:51 PM | Link to this

I think the judge doesn’t understand the idea behind the sticker. Evolution is a theory; it hasn’t been proven yet. Saying that evolution is a theory doesn’t automatically say “religion”. Intelligent design says nothing about God. If people are so sure about evolution being true, then why not let two sides be heard? That was the sticker was saying: there are two sides to the story and it should be heard.

By John R. Dobyns

January 13, 2005 02:54 PM | Link to this

Shame on them for getting it wrong the first time and defacing school property with stickers! I can only assume that the wacko religious right will next attack “Cell Theory”—-certainly GOD did not simply make all creatures out of cells, and after all……….it’s just a theory.

By Stephen Laughlin

January 13, 2005 02:54 PM | Link to this

The supporters of this decision are no less zealous about their theory than a Christian is their own. Evolution is just a theory. A reasonably accurate theory, but a theory nonetheless. It’s a dirty little secret among the proponents of evolution that there are organisms on this planet for which evolution has no explanation. Likewise, evolutionary theory predicts organisms that do not exist and for which there is nothing in the fossil record.

By snehal

January 13, 2005 02:54 PM | Link to this

Finally, we had to get a judge to put some sense into this religious extremists!

By Atlanta Philosopher

January 13, 2005 02:54 PM | Link to this

I’ll sum it up for all of you people who believe that the stickers should have stayed. Youre all a bunch of certifiable idiots. Plain and simple. Period. End of statement. And you all prove it with every post to this blog.

By bill

January 13, 2005 02:54 PM | Link to this

Isn’t it funny how the same people who ridicule Christians for believing in the Bible, calling us sheep…..keep citing “The Da Vinci Code” and other writtings to us?

By Jerry

January 13, 2005 02:54 PM | Link to this

More recommended reading in addition to the books I listed earlier:

Who Wrote the Bible? by Richard Elliott Friedman

The Bible Unearthed: Archaeology’s New Vision of Ancient Israel and the Origin of Its Sacred Texts - by
Neil Asher Silberman

By Lee

January 13, 2005 02:55 PM | Link to this

Andrea,

You must have missed my reparte with “Again”. We were kidding and trying to hold up to ridicule those people who are so narrow-minded and silly as to blame their failures and Society’s shortcomings on sexual preferance, music, art, literature, and the decay of family values on entertainment in general. Rock on, Girl!

By Robert

January 13, 2005 02:56 PM | Link to this

It amazes me how those who disagree with evolution are labeled as “uneducated” and backwards. Evolution can be nothing more than a theory because scientific truths must be observed….and evolution is impossible to observe. Evolution is not fact, nor did Darwin believe it was. An academically honest person will find out the truth behind the theory. The problem for most people is that they don’t want to have to reconcile their lives with the fact that God does exist and did create the Universe.

By Tim

January 13, 2005 02:56 PM | Link to this

You know, gravity is just a theory. As a matter fact, our current theory of gravity has recently been found to be flawed. Scientists are having trouble understanding why probes far away from earth are going faster than they should be according to our understanding of gravity.

I do not see Georgia parents seeking a disclaimer warning their kids that gravity is just a theory.

And I hate to break it to all the Bible thumpers out there, but scientists are not out to prove their is no God. You really show your ignorance when you make such claims since it is logically impossible to disprove the existance of ANYTHING. Scientists know this. Therefore, they are not out to prove there is no God. The fact of the matter is, most scientists DO believe in God, even if they do not take the bible literally.

No one is trying to do away with religion or any gods.

By Bob

January 13, 2005 02:59 PM | Link to this

You can “believe” whatever you want, but you still have to get your science right or you’ll flunk science.

By Louis

January 13, 2005 03:00 PM | Link to this

Sean, Funny I do not recall any wording in the CONSTITUTION that says anything about a “SUPREMEMACY CLAUSE� that is as wrongful as the CIVIL WAR was. Several States did have in their documents used to “JOIN� the UNION the right to overrule the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT on any LAW they MADE that was not DIRECTLY given to them by the CONSTITUTION. *Also SEAN Notice it reads “This Constitution, and the laws of the United States� * The only LAWFUL LAWS of the UNITED STATES are those that are CONSTITUTIONAL!

By Gob

January 13, 2005 03:00 PM | Link to this

There is a simple solution to this issue.

By Andrea

January 13, 2005 03:03 PM | Link to this

Lee: Whew! (that’s me breathing a sigh of relief) Maybe I’ll write a song about you or even an entire rock opera; flattering, of course!

By Jerry

January 13, 2005 03:04 PM | Link to this

Evolution is a theory; it hasn’t been proven yet. Saying that evolution is a theory doesn’t automatically say “religion�. Intelligent design says nothing about God. If people are so sure about evolution being true, then why not let two sides be heard? That was the sticker was saying: there are two sides to the story and it should be heard.

Carlo,

Read this

Also, it is about religion. It’s about Creationism supporters attempting to change the teachings of evolution to adapt to their religious beliefs.

By Michael

January 13, 2005 03:05 PM | Link to this

The simple solution to this issue is Jesus.

By Price

January 13, 2005 03:07 PM | Link to this

Is there any wonder that private schools are growing leaps and bounds? Perhaps the public school kids will get a chance to look at all the theories in college, if they can get in. Nothing is more scarey than an idea, when it’s the only one you have!

By Alisa

January 13, 2005 03:08 PM | Link to this

It is amazing that so many people can react to a judgement such as this one. To be frank, if both sides are not equally taught, then neither one should be covered it a text book. Period! Creativism and evolution should both be covered as well as any other theories out there.

By the way, aren’t we paying taxes to educate our children so that our children will be ready for the world? There are more theories, concrete facts and ideals to be taught in the classroom thoughout the education of a child. Before we can argue theories and how they should be presented, we have to get basic education on track! Georgia really doesn’t have the time to argue presentation when our state is so far behind the rest of the nation in educating our children!

I believe someone stated that people shouldn’t download a kid if they can’t afford it. Not everyone started out unable to afford their children and that is a whole different issue than what is being discussed in this forum.

By Daniel G

January 13, 2005 03:08 PM | Link to this

Welcome to the 21st Century Georgia. Nice of you to join the rest of. We knew you were a bit backward, but this is ridiculous!

By Donna Martin

January 13, 2005 03:08 PM | Link to this

It is refreshing to read that the Evolution disclaimers are to be removed. I feel like we are in a time warp in Cobb. I would rather we spend our time trying to improve the quality of our children’s education. Instead, our insecurities and bigotry take up too much of our time.

By Paul

January 13, 2005 03:09 PM | Link to this

Even if Intelligent Design is ever taught in classrooms, the religious fundamentalists will lose. The only difference between Darwinism and ID is the debate whether changes occur at random or at the hand of God. Creationists do not believe that ANYTHING Darwin said was true. ID accepts Darwin’s principles, but quibles over random vs. non-random nature of changes (this isn’t even really a scientific debate…more of a philosophical/metaphysical one). Creationists believe that man walked with dinosaurs and the Earth is 4 thousand-odd years old. Creationists believe that ID will be their savior, but anyone who knows anything about it knows that ID does not validate anything in a strictly interpreted bible. ID will only liberalize creationists to come closer to Darwin. I personally believe in ID, but since its only difference with Darwin is something that cannot be proven, it is a metaphysical debate that should be left to philosophy, comparative religion or best studied at home.

By jerome

January 13, 2005 03:09 PM | Link to this

Once upon a time in a warm little pond..oops sorry,..Once upon a time in a hydrothermic sea vent….ooops sorry, Once upon a time in the clay, nah too close to that genisis myth,…Once upon a time in a galaxy far far away the aliens sent to this planet the seeds of life and the earth caused this life to mutate and disversify and now you know the rest of the story!

By Jerry

January 13, 2005 03:11 PM | Link to this

I’d like to see someone up here offer up some actual solid evidence that Creationism or Intelligent Design are scientific in nature and deserve to be taught in a science class.

I won’t be holding my breath.

By Randy

January 13, 2005 03:11 PM | Link to this

This lawsuit was done all wrong, the lady who did it had good intensions but she left evolution in and wanted to add the creation argument as an *. I think we should do a lawsuit that takes macro-evolution out and doesn’t try to insert the creation argument. Tell the truth, the scientists don’t really know, that evolution is just their best guess, if one assumes that no creator exists.

By John

January 13, 2005 03:13 PM | Link to this

The simple solution to this issue is Jesus

Operative word - simple. Lacking complexity. Not requiring thought.

How appropriate.

By Davey Bob

January 13, 2005 03:14 PM | Link to this

Well, then, there IS a just and reasonable God - Hallelujah!.

I travel a great deal on business and unfortunately the various evolution agruments really color people’s view of Georgia - this stuff makes us seem like backwards crackers to them.

And I guess it is because too many of us are.

By Ron

January 13, 2005 03:15 PM | Link to this

Creationists should look closely at your own book. The hatred towards creationism has nothing to do with exposing the truth or who’s theory stands the test of good, fundamental scientific evidence, but they reject the truth about the author of all that is. They hate Him and if they reject His word, then they will not believe, though He were to repeat the creation in front of their very eyes.

By Lee

January 13, 2005 03:15 PM | Link to this

bill,

You obviously didn’t read (or maybe just didn’t understand) what I wrote about the novel, “The Da Vinci Code”. I too am a Christian and believe in the Bible as a guide to live by. I also have a cousin who is a devout Christian and a Ph.D.’d professor of religious studies who has studied the Bible, in its originally written languages, more than anyone I know. He would take umbrage at anyone trying to make it into “science.” “The Da Vinci Code” is a NOVEL. I’ll say it again but is thought provoking as were Jesus’ teachings.

By Randy

January 13, 2005 03:16 PM | Link to this

Again evolutionists read the earlier posts, Christian men have put up $250K and 100K to debate them on evolution and no one has accepted the challenge, one challenge has been up for 15 years. You guys have been brain-washed by the liberal media. Macro-evolution is a JOKE.

By Sean

January 13, 2005 03:19 PM | Link to this

Louis—your argument is a little circular but allow me to respond. “Supremacy Clause” is used to refer to the portion of the Constitution (I believe it is in Article II) that states that the laws of the United States are the supreme laws of the land, regardless of what a state constitution or legislature may assert. The only way a state can ignore/overrule a federal law is if it is found to be unconstitutional by the US Supreme Court. You are correct when you assert that the only “lawful laws of the United States are those that are Constitutional.” A “lawful law” is by definition constitutional.

By Randy

January 13, 2005 03:19 PM | Link to this

Actually there is a little known forum here on the AJC that happends every week (Woman to Woman) this kind of stuff is discussed all the time and the liberals never win the debate. They are fighting a losing battle.

By Randy

January 13, 2005 03:22 PM | Link to this

Yes Jesus is simple, just like your mothers love. Unconditional, everylasting and absolute. You just have to accept it.

By RO

January 13, 2005 03:22 PM | Link to this

“In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.” We did not evolve from monkeys. If you think about that, what sense does that make? A number of you stated that evolution is a theory and I agree. It is not a fact. It is something that someone came up with and everyone else decided to go along with it. I don’t care how many scientists proved anything or how many scientists said it is true or how many scientists…(you get my point).

The big bang??? Oh gosh…get real! How foolish is that theory? Everything came from a loud explosion??

God is everywhere. His name is all over everything and people use His name almost daily and you can’t believe that He created everything? We didn’t come from monkeys or a big bang!

Firstly, if you are a Christian, you should not believe in evolution. Secondly, if you are not a Christian, think about becoming one. I bet you would be a much happier person!

By Jerry

January 13, 2005 03:23 PM | Link to this

Again evolutionists read the earlier posts, Christian men have put up $250K and 100K to debate them on evolution and no one has accepted the challenge, one challenge has been up for 15 years. You guys have been brain-washed by the liberal media. Macro-evolution is a JOKE.

Again, Randy, Hovind is a fool and has been proven to be so. His challenge is flawed as it stretches evolution to include meaning the creation of the universe.

I’ll give you my car if you can prove God exists.

By Louis

January 13, 2005 03:24 PM | Link to this

* Suspicion + Dislike = Liberty; A formula for FREEDOM* The FIRST Amendment is a RESTRICTION on the power of the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, not a GRANT of POWER to it. It prevents the FEDERAL Government from establishing a National religion, but does not grant power for it to interfere in the Church-State relations decided upon by the people of the STATES!

By Charles

January 13, 2005 03:24 PM | Link to this

One day the scientists all got together and decided that they had figured out everything in the universe; and, thus, humans no longer needed God. So they decided to elect one of their number to go to God and tell him that humans didn’t need Him any longer.

One was chosen who went to God and said, “God, thanks for all the good work and things you’ve done for us in the past; but, we’ve gotten it all figured out; we can do anything you can do; and really don’t need you anymore. Once again though, Thanks and good bye.”

God thought for a second and said,”Well, since you can do anything I can do, what do say to a little contest to test that theory?”

The scientist, eager to prove his knowledge and prowess, immediately agreed.

So God said,”Why don’t we each create life?”

“No problem!” said the scientist as he scooped up a handful of dirt to begin his process.

“No, no, no.” said God, “Get your own dirt.”

By Randy

January 13, 2005 03:26 PM | Link to this

Ron is absolutely right, some people would not believe in Jesus if he came down from heaven and shook their hand. They would say, he can’t be God, or he would not have came down from heaven and shook my hand. For these people Jesus can’t win, when Jesus loses, the one who really loses is you.

By Jerry

January 13, 2005 03:26 PM | Link to this

RO, I’m a much happier person now that I’ve become an atheist. 12 years of Catholic schooling showed me that organized religion is merely a tool to control masses of people.

By Tony

January 13, 2005 03:26 PM | Link to this

Whoo-hoo! Welcome to the 21st Century, Cobb County. As far as ‘it’s just a theory’, science doesn’t take someone’s word about a theory; a scientific theory must be able to explain what has been observed, predict what hasn’t been observed and (and this is the biggie), be able to be tested by others and either modified or falsified. Taking something on faith is an anathema to science. Teach your mystic beliefs at home and let the children learn their science at school.

By John

January 13, 2005 03:26 PM | Link to this

This is very disappointing. Blind endorsement of evolution as the only theory which can be offered in school curriculum is as much an endorsement of a particular religious view as would be the teaching of only creationism. The people who are applauding “the protection of the separation of church and state” are merely applauding the protection of their particular religious view. Atheism is now the established religion of our governement.

By Dwight

January 13, 2005 03:30 PM | Link to this

In October 2001 over 100 of the nations leading scientists - biologists, physicists, molecular biologists,.. the list goes on… from places including Cambridge, Stanford (my alma mater), Cornell, Yale, Rutgers, Princeton, Purdue, Duke, Michigan, Berkeley, the list goes on… and Los Alamos National Laboratory, Lawrence Livermore Laboratories, Smithsonian Institution, Plasma Physics Lab at Princeton (the director if it)… the list goes on.. issued the following statement:

A Scientific Dissent From Darwinism

“We are skeptical of claims for the ability of random mutation and natural selection to account for the complexity of life. Careful examination of the evidence for Darwinian theory should be encouraged.” The Weekly Standard, October 2001.

An incredible amount of research from mainstream science has brought into question many of the tenants of Darwinism. It is now recognized that much of what is taught in public schools about Darwinism is simply not true.

For example, Miller’s experiment was based on assumptions that are now known to be false (composition of the early earth atmosphere). His experiment is meaningless as a possible explanation for how life originated. Mainstream science has acknowledged this fact for over 25 years.

Also, the pictures of Haeckel’s embroy’s presented in many text books have been known to be fradulent for over 125 years. Haeckel was censured shortly after he published his work, around 1870.

So why are these things being taught as if they are “fact”?

This is just the tip of the iceburg.

Do your own research. Find out for yourself. Dig hard - it’s tough to tell whether an organization has a hidden agenda.

Good luck…… you’ll be surprised… and maybe you’ll even get mad.

By Jerry

January 13, 2005 03:30 PM | Link to this

This is very disappointing. Blind endorsement of evolution as the only theory which can be offered in school curriculum is as much an endorsement of a particular religious view as would be the teaching of only creationism. The people who are applauding “the protection of the separation of church and state� are merely applauding the protection of their particular religious view. Atheism is now the established religion of our governement.

Considering our government is a secular one and we’re not governed by a theocracy, then that is how it should be.

Also, there is no other valid alternative for how life evolved on earth than the fact-based Theory of Evolution. Creationism and/or ID is based purely on the beliefs of a faction of one particular religion.

By Louis

January 13, 2005 03:33 PM | Link to this

SEAN, Thanks for joining me (while providing a different point of view) in this DEBATE about CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS. Even with out reading papers written back and forth from out founding fathers or the FEDERALIST papers while the STATES debated joining a UNION. Common sense should leave one to believe that a Country that was Contemplating, the actually fighting a WAR for Freedom against an all too powerful government would foolishly rush to give their new government the same or more power!

By Sean

January 13, 2005 03:35 PM | Link to this

Louis—again, you are partially correct. As originally envisioned the First Amendment did not apply to the states. However, it is now accepted in all legal circles (except really fringe ones) that the First Amendment and almost all other guarantees of the Bill of Rights apply to the states. Accordingly, the states are bound by the First Amendment and its ban on state support of religion. Your views that the feds cannot intervene in the states affairs went out about 50 years ago.

By John

January 13, 2005 03:36 PM | Link to this

Randy, I suspect your “liberals never win the debate” statement is as much a consequence of your inability to even remotely entertain an argument other than your own. Tell someone who’s been conditioned to believe the sky is green that the sky is blue and he will never concede the correctness of your argument.

Similarly, your assumption that because no one has ever won your oft-mentioned “debate” your position must be true is as fallacious as arguments come. It’s called “argumentum ad ignorantiamâ€? appropriately, and refers to the incorrect belief that something is false simply because it hasn’t been proven true.

By Charles

January 13, 2005 03:36 PM | Link to this

Jerry, who are you to be deciding what is a “valid alternative” for all of the rest of us? By what rule do you measure “validity”? Numbers? Guns? Votes?

By Eric W

January 13, 2005 03:36 PM | Link to this

The ignorance of the proponents for the theory of Evolution of Species(macro-evolution) is overwhelming as a well as disturbing. Micro-evolution(changes within a single species) is shown widely throughout our world while macro-evolution(changing from one species to another) has never been shown nor has any evidence of it been given. It is a theory and should be taught and presented in that way. If a book teaches macro-evolution as a fact then that is an out and out lie, and you who support that are supporting teaching lies in school. This would not be an issue if the textbook presented Evolution of species as a theory not a fact. Maybe the blame should fall on those who adopted the text.

And to those that believe that Christian beliefs are archaic, note that animosity towards Christianity has been around as long as Christianity itself. Pot meet kettle, kettle meet pot.

And to the questions of proof of creation outside of the Bible I say: Show me proof of macro-evolution outside of one man’s thoughts and then ask again.

By Jerry

January 13, 2005 03:37 PM | Link to this

Dwight,

Read this

Claim CA112: Many mainstream scientists point out serious problems with evolution, including problems with some of its most important points. Source: Discovery Institute, 2001. A scientific dissent from Darwinism. http://www.discovery.org/articleFiles/PDFs/100ScientistsAd.pdf Response: There are no known serious problems with the theory of evolution. Claims that there are fall into two (overlapping) categories:

Some supposed problems are questions about details about the mechanisms of evolution. There are, and always will be, unanswered details in every field of science, and evolution is no exception. Creationists take controversies about details out of context to falsely imply controversy about evolution as a whole.

Some supposed problems are misunderstandings, ignorance, or fraudulent claims about what the science says. Links: NCSE, 2002. Analysis of the Discovery Institute’s bibliography. http://www.ncseweb.org/resources/articles/3878analysisofthediscoveryinst452002.asp

Tamzek, Nic, 2002. Icon of obfuscation: Jonathan Wells’ book Icons of Evolution and why most of what it teaches about evolution is wrong. http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/wells/iconob.html

By Pat

January 13, 2005 03:38 PM | Link to this

Lee, can you site one example where something mentioned in the BIBLE has been proven to be historicly inaccurate?

By Richard Roma

January 13, 2005 03:38 PM | Link to this

“I’ll give you my car if you can prove God exists.” - so says Jerry

Jerry, do you love anyone? Can you prove it?

We were never meant to apply logic to rationalize our faith or belief in God but instead we are to apply our faith as guidence in our logic.

By Dan

January 13, 2005 03:39 PM | Link to this

The amount of comments and exposure this gets is the truly amazing thing. Regardless of what you believe, it is called the theory of evolution and it is the scientific communities best explantion. (Note I said theory, which is how it is described in all the textbooks. To have a sticker say theory not fact is redudant) Now if you want to talk about creationism you get that from a religion class. I don’t see the conflict. Personally I don’t understand why creationists can’t consider that maybe evolution was God’s way of creating. You guys need to pick the right fight. There is far more danger in the socialist indoctrination taking place in publice schools any dipute regarding evolution.

By Jerry

January 13, 2005 03:40 PM | Link to this

Jerry, who are you to be deciding what is a “valid alternative� for all of the rest of us? By what rule do you measure “validity�? Numbers? Guns? Votes?

Charles.

Scientific evidence.

Again, anyone show me any valid evidence that Creationism/Intelligent Design is a valid scientific theory.

By Christopher

January 13, 2005 03:40 PM | Link to this

Although I am agnostic-bordering-on-atheistic, I do not believe that the sticker was intrusively inappropriate. Evolution is still considered a theory, although one supported by mounds and mounds of truly compelling evidence. None of us have lived for 6000+ years and can truly attest to the absolute validity of evolution, but there is certainly NOT A SINGLE IOTA of true compelling EVIDENCE that creationism, intelligent design, or “alien-seeding” are more feasible alternatives.

I believe more in evolution than any other theory at hand because of the evidence that is abound, but I am not prepared to defend or debate it as … um … gospel, because I do not KNOW how it all began. I am comfortable in my admission of ignorance, unlike so many Christians who INSIST that Creationism is irrefutable (with ZERO evidence of such). I find that very sad and very arrogant as well.

So therefore, although I found the language of the sticker to be somewhat reasonable, I did not support it and I agree with the decision to remove it from the textbooks for one main reason…it was created by COBB COUNTY schools officials, whom we all have learned time and time again in the past few years, are the laughing stock of the academic world for failure to ADVANCE academia and overwhelming willingness to pander to the unfortunate droves of evangelicals in their county. I don’t believe that it would have been such a contentious issue if not for the notorious locale.

No of US can nor will ever truly know where the earth and creatures came from, but please let’s refrain from ignoring EVIDENCE and FACTS to proclaim supernatural STORIES as undisputable. That’s called mythology.

By Randy

January 13, 2005 03:41 PM | Link to this

Again evolutionists read the earlier posts, make yourself $250K or $100K, monies put up by Christians if you will debate them on evolution and win. One, the $250K has been in place for 15 years, with no takers. IT’S TIME TO PUT UP OR SHUT UP, on a thoery that is unproven.

By Ted Sauls

January 13, 2005 03:41 PM | Link to this

It is a shame that truth can not just be accepted. Evolution is a theory. Flawed as it is, and should be taught as only that, sticker or no sticker.

My children will be taught from home what we believe, and that good science confirms that, not denies it.

Ironically Sir Isaac Newton believed the same thing!

By Lee Hoffer

January 13, 2005 03:42 PM | Link to this

Dear AJC:

By Randy

January 13, 2005 03:43 PM | Link to this

Thanks for proving my point John that no liberals win debates, yours is weak!

By Jerry

January 13, 2005 03:43 PM | Link to this

*“I’ll give you my car if you can prove God exists.� - so says Jerry

Jerry, do you love anyone? Can you prove it?

We were never meant to apply logic to rationalize our faith or belief in God but instead we are to apply our faith as guidence in our logic.*

Richard.

Therefore, Creationism/ID have no place in a science class. Science is about proving how things work, how things exist, how things came into being, etc.

Creationism is about trying to take a religious faith and assign scientific properties to it. It’s an abuse of the Christian faith.

By Louis

January 13, 2005 03:44 PM | Link to this

Sean Unfortunately you are right that it is now it is now widely accepted in all legal circles (except really fringe ones) that the First Amendment and almost all other guarantees of the Bill of Rights apply to the states. Just because something is accepted by, a large group does not make it so! It is because “We the PEOPLE� have been asleep on our watch for the last 50 or so years that has let the Federal Government encroach upon States rights and more important on our rights! Thomas Jefferson said it best himself � If the Constitution were to be preserved, the people would have to keep a vigilant watch over the federal government and be alert to its encroachments upon the Rights of the States and of the PEOPLE.� �In Questions of Power, then let no more be heard of confidence in man, but bind him down by the chains of the Constitution.�

By Ann

January 13, 2005 03:45 PM | Link to this

Randy: To say that the liberal side never wins (example: in “Woman to Woman”) is a very biased opinion (your opinion). There are often strong points made on either side, it just depends on whether or not you’re open-minded enough to really understand what each side is saying before you make your decision.

By Dan

January 13, 2005 03:45 PM | Link to this

I have a question for the creationists. how exactly did this population thing get going. Did Adam sleep with his daughters or did Eve sleep with her sons? Or did their sons and daughters sleep together. (Which raises another question..was Eden actually in Alabama.) and was incest not a sin then. All kidding aside I just can’t reconcile that obvious fact

By Jerry

January 13, 2005 03:45 PM | Link to this

Again evolutionists read the earlier posts, make yourself $250K or $100K, monies put up by Christians if you will debate them on evolution and win. One, the $250K has been in place for 15 years, with no takers. IT’S TIME TO PUT UP OR SHUT UP, on a thoery that is unproven.

Again, Randy, stop distorting the meaning of Evolution.

By bill

January 13, 2005 03:46 PM | Link to this

For those of you who offer the suggestion that if people want their kids to learn of creationism in school, then send them to a private school. … Well, I do, but simply for the better education. I teach them about our religion and then when they grow up, they can make up their own minds, (which is why I want them to be exposed to ALL theories, teachings, and beliefs whether I agree with them or not). …….But I ask this one question of you. If people DO continue to pull their kids out of the government edoctrination centers, where teachers preach down to a captive audience,…..will YOU support their desire to KEEP the money the government conviscates from them in the name of education? After all, they won’t be burdoning the government employee teachers to educate our children. Or, do you just want us to continue to fund YOUR kid’s schools.

By Sean

January 13, 2005 03:46 PM | Link to this

Ted—I’m not arguing anyone has conclusively shown all the steps proposed in evolution are true. I’m only saying that it an appropriate scientific theory to teach to the kids in science classes and that school boards should not be allowed to put in disclaimers because of religious beliefs.

By Jim

January 13, 2005 03:47 PM | Link to this

The First Amendment does limit the power of the Federal government. Additionally, it limits the power of state governments (including school boards) through the “incorporation doctrine” (the Supremacy Clause has nothing to do with it). The First Amendment has been incorporated into the 14th Amendment by the Supreme Court. That is, the limitations on governmental power imposes by some of the original 10 amendments to the Constitution have been applied to state governments. The Supreme Court’s basis for the incorporation doctrine is from the following language of the 14th amendment:

“No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.”

So, Judge Cooper’s application of Establishment Clause jurisprudence to this case wasn’t a judicial whim (at least by him - some may argue that the incorporation doctrine itself is a judicial whim) - alas, the incorporation doctrine is law, not theory.

By Randy

January 13, 2005 03:49 PM | Link to this

Ever noticed how the posts are like someone from France talking to someone from China. Those not Christian don’t get it, they don’t understand, they haven’t had a life changing experience like us Christians. We might as well be talking to the wall. Accepting Jesus is a emotional experience, I have proved God’s existance from a logically and scientific stand point, but I might as well be talking to them in Chinese. They don’t know and what’s worse they don’t know that they don’t know!

By Sean

January 13, 2005 03:50 PM | Link to this

Louis—while I am a liberal I totally agree that the powers of the federal government need to be restricted. However, I don’t have any problem with the Bill of Rights applying to the states. it seems to me that the whole idea behind the Bill of Rights is not only to limit the power of government but to protect the rights of the individuals against the will of the majority. Again, I think the Civil rights movement provides a good example—it is possible that the majority of people in some Southern states supported segregation. This does not mean that just because a majority supports it that it should be legal.

By Jonathan

January 13, 2005 03:51 PM | Link to this

Evolution is a theory. Only evolutionists call it fact. The rest of the science world knows that certain aspects of evolution cannot be entirely proven.

The disclaimer has nothing to do with religion. It just calls into question the validity of the textbooks remarks on evolution. The sticker does not say anything about creationalism, just that evolution might not be true. What is wrong with telling our students to think critically about the issue?

And some of the people who have posted talk about the “separation of church and state”. Those people probably think that phrase is in the Constitution or the Bill of Rights. Let’s get educated before we claim that separation of church and state means that we can’t put a disclaimer in a book that tells a student to think critically.

By Christopher

January 13, 2005 03:52 PM | Link to this

Randy,

Among all the others on this board, you truly scare me! I know it does no good try to ask you to open your mind even a little bit and grow up, but PLEASE, #1. learn to spell and #2. please take a logic class or two if you’re going to try to present any cause-and-effect arguments. You can do both if you really wanted to, it’s called EDUCATION - give it a try.

By Randy

January 13, 2005 03:52 PM | Link to this

Jerry, Macro-evolution is a Joke. It violates the 2 main principals of science. Get this garbage out of our schools.

By Louis

January 13, 2005 03:54 PM | Link to this

Sean Unfortunately you are right that it is now it is now widely accepted in all legal circles (except really fringe ones) that the First Amendment and almost all other guarantees of the Bill of Rights apply to the states. Just because something is accepted by, a large group does not make it so! It is because “We the PEOPLE� have been asleep on our watch for the last 50 or so years that has let the Federal Government encroach upon States rights and more important on our rights! Thomas Jefferson said it best himself � If the Constitution were to be preserved, the people would have to keep a vigilant watch over the federal government and be alert to its encroachments upon the Rights of the States and of the PEOPLE.� �In Questions of Power, then let no more be heard of confidence in man, but bind him down by the chains of the Constitution.�

Sean In 1825 Thomas Jefferson warned William Branch Giles: “It is but too evident, that the three ruling branches of [the National Government] are in a combination to strip the colleagues, the State authorities, of all powers reserved by them[the states reserved all power not spelled out explicitly in the Constitution] and to exercise themselves all functions “foreign and domestic�.

Quite frankly, the States have coward down due to the outcome of the Civil War, and more recently the use of the Army during the Civil Rights ERA and have ceded power rightfully theirs to the Federal Government!

By Jerry

January 13, 2005 03:55 PM | Link to this

Jerry, Macro-evolution is a Joke. It violates the 2 main principals of science. Get this garbage out of our schools.

Randy,

No, it doesn’t. That’s a fallacy spread by the likes of Hovind and other Creationist loons.

BTW, in a post above you mention you proved God exists scientifically. I don’t see that. Care to repeat?

By John

January 13, 2005 03:56 PM | Link to this

Thanks for proving my point John that no liberals win debates, yours is weak!

Randy,

Maybe if you can tell me why, in logical terms, my argument is weak you might have credibility. However, like most uneducated loud-mouths, you are only able to use circular reasoning: “Your argument is weak because I say it’s weak.”

Thank you for proving MY point.

By Eric W

January 13, 2005 03:57 PM | Link to this

Christopher, I believe in Creationism and have no problem telling you that I have absolutely zero tangible proof of it. That has never been and never will be my arguement. My arguement is that macro-evolution has absolutely zero tangible proof also, and takes as much(if not more) faith to believe in as Creation. I would be interested in seeing the “mounds of truly compelling evidence” you have seen. My guess is it’s either micro-evolution or completely false.

By HG

January 13, 2005 03:57 PM | Link to this

Here’s an idea — read the full text of the opinion before you opine on it. How many responders have taken the time to do that?

By Louis

January 13, 2005 03:58 PM | Link to this

Sean Just a side note: I am for equal right for all, regardless of color, creed etc. As a Christian, I believe we are all born with the same rights. My problem with this and other rulings come not from my Christian beliefs but because I have long held a belief the Federal Government has gotten away with making the common man a slave to Taxes for a �Democratic Republic-Commune� where they treat all of us like children who can’t manage our money, live, religions etc.

By Jerry

January 13, 2005 03:58 PM | Link to this

*Evolution is a theory. Only evolutionists call it fact. The rest of the science world knows that certain aspects of evolution cannot be entirely proven. *

Jonathan,

Evolution is a fact. The theory revolves around how evolution actually works. Darwin proposed a theory that has been modified over time due to additional scientific evidence.

There is absolutely zero evidence to support Creationism.

By Randy

January 13, 2005 04:00 PM | Link to this

Well Chris I almost have a MBA, on spelling I don’t use the spell check, waste of time. On logic I am the most logical person I know. As far a getting more education, I would but I must manage the millions of dollars of real estate I have accumulated over the years with my lack of logic.

By David

January 13, 2005 04:01 PM | Link to this

Simple solution…take the “Government” out of “Government Schools” (aka public schools). No “Government Schools”, no Separation of Church and State issues.

And Alisa, that means, if you cannot afford to educate your children without asking the government to take by force the wealth of others to educate yours, then please do not have any.

By Jerry

January 13, 2005 04:04 PM | Link to this

And Alisa, that means, if you cannot afford to educate your children without asking the government to take by force the wealth of others to educate yours, then please do not have any.

Too bad for you that our government believes in the common good. Having good schools to educate our children is beneficial to our country. Even your taxes can come back to benefit you if you are, say, a business owner and you hire employees who grew up where you live.

By tommy

January 13, 2005 04:05 PM | Link to this

Those who believe in evolution have proof without any certainty. Those who believe in creationism (or intelligent design) have certainty without any proof.

By Eric W

January 13, 2005 04:07 PM | Link to this

Jerry, It seems you are lumping micro and macro evolution together and calling evolution fact. micro-evolution has been shown to be true. I don’t think that anyone can truly argue that change does not happen within a species. macro-evolution has zero evidence. There has never been anything to even remotely show that a species can change into another species. These two are different and should be taught and presented separate.

By Randy

January 13, 2005 04:08 PM | Link to this

Jerry, Proof of God’s existing. The universe started at some point, ever how far back you go(billion of years etc) since things don’t appear out of thin air({Physics) a creator had to create the universe. The only possible argument is that the universe is eternal(always been here), this was disproven by the second law of thermodynamics and the fact that the sun is going into a super nova in 5 million years. So a creator does exist. Anyone who is a atheist, simply has not thought it through. Have a good day.

By Sean

January 13, 2005 04:08 PM | Link to this

Louis—I wasn’t trying to insinuate that you are in some way racist or biased against other religions. I think that one of the biggest differences between you and I is that I am a big believer in the “social security state” and imposing taxes to pay for the “greater good.” I don’t like paying taxes but I think they do a great deal of good.

By Wise Man

January 13, 2005 04:09 PM | Link to this

http://www.origins.tv/darwin/factortheory.htm

In chatrooms and creationism websites the claim is often made that evolution is “only a theory” or that it is not, and should not be taught as, a “fact.” Most often these claims arise out of the need for fundamentalist believers to defend non-negotiable elements of faith. Semantical arguments are also made by students recently introduced to elementary courses in philosophy and logic. In other cases questions are raised by persons honestly unaware of the definitions and methods of science.

In an age where sound bites, opinion polls and glancing at magazine covers replaces reading and programs for continuing education, it is perhaps understandable why the majority of people are woefully ignorant of science generally, and of its definitions, specifically. For those who wish to deny evolution and the findings of science it is easy to find in a dictionary a definition for a word to assist their preconceptions. But dictionaries are not arbiters of science. Scientific definitions are the product of consensus among working scientists and editors of peer-reviewed journals of science. In discussing science we should speak her language.

Words such as fact, hypothesis, theory, law, proof, probability, true and false have meanings within science. Dictionaries often do give adequate, brief, scientific definitions for these words. But it is often necessary to understand those definitions in a broader context (often given in specialty dictionaries of science).

I present below a few explanations given by eminent scientists. Below those you will find a few links to other webpages that provide alternate definitions and viewpoints. If you remain puzzled after reading thoroughly these explanations and definitions, my email address may be found at the very bottom of this page.

Paul R. Ehrlich in Human Natures: Genes, Cultures and the Human Prospect, p. 74.
Scientific hypotheses are, in one way or another, tested against nature — the “real world” that all scientists conventionally agree is “out there.”1 Only when hypotheses are sufficiently tested and bind together information from relatively diverse areas that previously had not been connected do they properly become theories. But that is the opposite of the popular understanding of the term; it’s scientific meaning is much closer to that of the word fact in common parlance.2 Theories embody the highest level of certainty for comprehensive ideas in science. Thus, when someone claims that evolution is “only a theory,” it’s roughly equivalent to saying that the proposition that the Earth circles the sun rather than vice versa is “only a theory.” Evolution is, in fact, a very useful theory. [underscore added]

1 If the extreme version of solipsism (the notion that only the self and the contents of one’s own consciousness exist — or can be known) were taken as correct, one could not do science.

2 A scientific theory can be defined as a coherent framework for an entire field, one ordinarily so well supported by empirical data that scientists act as if it were “proven.” Once established, theories are treated as “true” (I use quotation marks because truth itself is not a scientific concept; all scientific ideas are subject to revision) as long as they are useful — generally until and unless some scientist demonstrates them to be wrong. Any position that is based on authority and is not subject to revision cannot be accurately described as scientific.

Stephen J. Gould Excerpted from Discover Magazine (May, 1981).
In the American vernacular, “theory” often means “imperfect fact” - part of a hierarchy of confidence running downhill from fact to theory to hypothesis to guess. Thus the power of the creationist argument: evolution is “only” a theory and intense debate now rages about many aspects of the theory.

Well evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world’s data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don’t go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them.

Moreover, “fact” doesn’t mean “absolute certainty”; there ain’t no such animal in an exciting and complex world. The final proofs of logic and mathematics flow deductively from stated premises and achieve certainty only because they are NOT about the empirical world. Evolutionists make no claim for perpetual truth. In science “fact” can only mean “confirmed to such a degree that it would be perverse to withhold provisional consent.” [underscore added]

Evolutionists have been very clear about this distinction of fact and theory from the very beginning, if only because we have always acknowledged how far we are from completely understanding the mechanisms (theory) by which evolution (fact) occurred. Darwin continually emphasized the difference between his two great and separate accomplishments: establishing the fact of evolution, and proposing a theory - natural selection - to explain the mechanism of evolution.

By Andy

January 13, 2005 04:11 PM | Link to this

All you Christian-hatin’ folks stay up there in Cobb County. I live down in Coweta County and us backward, pre-21st century Christians like having influence over our school system. Y’all need therapy. :-)

By Mark

January 13, 2005 04:12 PM | Link to this

Keep voodoo out of public schools, and Gov’t. Let’s teach facts.

By Christopher

January 13, 2005 04:12 PM | Link to this

Eric W, thanks for your comments. I have honestly not ever really heard nor considered the terms macro-evolution vs. micro-evolution. It seems as if there are a couple of different topics being convoluted into one discussion. Does micro relate more to the origins of man and other creatures where macro involves the origin of the universe?!? I’ve never really heard the terms before, but then again, this unresolvable debate is not really THAT big of a part of my life.

Interestingly enough though, my wife is a southern baptist, whereas I mentioned before that I am borderline athiest…odd couple, I know.

By Christopher

January 13, 2005 04:12 PM | Link to this

Eric W, thanks for your comments. I have honestly not ever really heard nor considered the terms macro-evolution vs. micro-evolution. It seems as if there are a couple of different topics being convoluted into one discussion. Does micro relate more to the origins of man and other creatures where macro involves the origin of the universe?!? I’ve never really heard the terms before, but then again, this unresolvable debate is not really THAT big of a part of my life.

Interestingly enough though, my wife is a southern baptist, whereas I mentioned before that I am borderline atheist…odd couple, I know.

By Jerry

January 13, 2005 04:13 PM | Link to this

Jerry, Proof of God’s existing. The universe started at some point, ever how far back you go(billion of years etc) since things don’t appear out of thin air({Physics) a creator had to create the universe. The only possible argument is that the universe is eternal(always been here), this was disproven by the second law of thermodynamics and the fact that the sun is going into a super nova in 5 million years. So a creator does exist. Anyone who is a atheist, simply has not thought it through. Have a good day.

BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!

Because you cannot come up with a scientific and rational reason you automatically ASSume it was because of a God?

Ok, following your fallacious logic, who created God? And who created that which created God? Etc., etc.

Ever done any reading on Quantum Mechanics and String Theory? I highly recommend it.

By Kimberly

January 13, 2005 04:13 PM | Link to this

I am a Christian and do believe in the Bible. I believe that my God was creative and intelligent enough to create the world using EVOLUTION! As for the Earth being created from dust as the Bible states, that’s what the Big Bang theory states too. Please don’t judge all Christians by our uneducated, closed minded, fellows. Some of us are educated and fully able to see God’s role in science. As for the decision, I think it was a good one. Religion (all types) should be taught at home not public school. This wasn’t discriminating against Christians, it was stopping special treatment of Christian beliefs. If you want Christian beliefs taught in school, then go to a religious school.

By Andy

January 13, 2005 04:14 PM | Link to this

Wise Man,

Do you really think anyone’s going to take the time to read that dissertation you posted? Furthermore, do you really think you’re going to change anyone’s mind?

By Randy

January 13, 2005 04:14 PM | Link to this

Face the facts, people who want to believe in evolution, want to believe in it because they think they won’t have to answer to a creator. They can do what they want to do, when they want to do it. Problem, even if macro-evolution were true(no proof in 145 years) a creator still had to create the first being that started the process. Still you must answer to the creator!

By Bliss

January 13, 2005 04:15 PM | Link to this

YIPPPEEEEE! Finally, someone realizes that science class is not religion 101! Scientific Theory belongs in science classes, not religious belief! Good on Cobb County! For once, our government has not based their decisions on what they believe on Sundays!

By Steve

January 13, 2005 04:16 PM | Link to this

This ruling is absurd. How can a sticker stating that the THEORY of evolution is a theory be unconstitutional? The stickers do not mention religion at all. Charles Darwin himself, spend the last years of his life denouncing his theory of evolution, it cannot be proven, (where is the missing link) I think the real problem is that schools teach a theory as scientific fact.

By Jerry

January 13, 2005 04:16 PM | Link to this

Thank you, Wise Man.

That’s what I said before. Evolution is a fact. The theory is about how evolution occurs.

By Wise Man

January 13, 2005 04:19 PM | Link to this

Andy,

Your response is exactly the problem mentioned in that article I posted. Lack of reading = lack of education = proposal of myth as scientific theory.

By David

January 13, 2005 04:20 PM | Link to this

Finally Georgia has emerged out of the Middle Ages! To the pro-creationists out there why do you back your claims with the Bible? Has it occurred to you that not all children that attend public schools are practicing Christians or are even Christian at all? Are all non-Christians in the world doomed to hell if they don’t believe in the Christian god? Your ideology smacks of extremism that is prevelant in the Middle East. Instead of invoking Allah and the Koran you use God and the Bible to support your argument. One word of advice to the pro-creationists if you want to debate the topic of evolution please use science not religion. I would have much more respect for you if you can give scientific evidence instead of saying “the Bible says….”

By Jerry

January 13, 2005 04:21 PM | Link to this

29+ Evidences for Macroevolution The Scientific Case for Common Descent

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/

By Randy

January 13, 2005 04:22 PM | Link to this

So again the conversation comes down to, those who don’t want to believe finding some excuse not to believe. OK!That will be very comforting to you on your death bed.

By Andy

January 13, 2005 04:22 PM | Link to this

Psalms 14:1 The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.”…

Better be careful with that one. Could be quite costly if you carry that one to your grave.

By Andy

January 13, 2005 04:24 PM | Link to this

Wise Man,

Quite an assumption (i.e. lack of reading) from someone who places such value on science. I’m shocked at your rebuttal. ;-)

By Randy

January 13, 2005 04:25 PM | Link to this

Actually Georgia went back into the middle ages with the rest of the country. It’s irrevelant, macro-evolution will be overturned in the next 10 to 20 years. No proof should eliminate it.

By Eric W

January 13, 2005 04:27 PM | Link to this

Christopher, micro-evolution and macro-evolution are rarely separated in the media even though they are vastly different.

Micro-evolution is changes with-in a species over time. Examples would be girraffes(sp?), having long necks now when there used to be short necked girraffes..adaptation.

Macro-evolution or evolution of species is the controversy. It claims that a single species evolved into another and then those evolved into another and hence leaving multiple species on the earth and what we have today. Here are just two of the glaring hole in that theory. 1. Species would continue to evolve and new species would be found being born from other species.
2. There could not be a new species without a progression of species. Ever species on earth is radically different. Evolution would be a gradual change not a massive leap.

These are brief explanations and I encourage you to look into it more.

By David

January 13, 2005 04:28 PM | Link to this

Clarence Cooper is a Clinton appointee; what do you expect? His condescending tone towards Christians in his ruling is particularly unsettling. We need school vouchers now!

By David

January 13, 2005 04:28 PM | Link to this

Kimberly,

Italic: If you want Christian beliefs taught in school, then go to a religious school.

That’s the problem, why should those parents who choose to work hard and send their children to private schools or home-school them have to pay for Italic: your childs education through their property taxes, sales taxes, and federal income taxes?

It sounds to me like the truly intelligent parents are those who send their kids to private schools, or God forbid, home school them.

By Arianna

January 13, 2005 04:28 PM | Link to this

There is a separation of church and state and I am glad that there is judge that realizes this is not a Christian state, that ignores other faiths, but that works to be inclusive.

By Christopher

January 13, 2005 04:29 PM | Link to this

Eric W - just read your post on macro vs. micro, and yes, I agree. To my understanding, and I believe that this is something that alot of MY KIND OF FOLKS may not realize is that Darwin’s Theory does promote macro-evolution as you explained it - that ALL creatures evolved from ONE kind of early creature. This part if it is very difficult for me to digest. On the other hand, micro is very easy to accept with a little bit of intelligence. So yes, I guess I was referring to the “mounds of evidence” in a strictly micro sense. I like to stick with what makes SENSE, and this does, but I’m afraid, to me, that the notion of Creationism falls far short of being palatable.

When the ancient Greeks and Romans had no clue about how things happened (i.e. thunder, lightning, nightfall, etc.) they made up stories to explain it. NONE of us KNOW where or how the earth nor creaturs originated, so I can only rely on myself to admit that I don’t know rather than INSIST that I do and hold comtempt for those who don’t believe in the same UNSUBSTANTIATED STORIES. (Eric W., don’t think that this last remark refers to you, I don’t believe that you are like that, but I know so many Christians who are SO un-Christ-like to anyone who doesn’t agree with them …like Randy!)

By Ann

January 13, 2005 04:31 PM | Link to this

Randy, I am agnostic (also bordering on atheist). However, I do not “do what I want to do, when I want to do it”. I am a considerate human being, and tolerant of what goes on around me. Please don’t assume that just because someone may not believe in your god, that person is automatically bad. My mom is buddhist (not the fru-fru kind, she’s actually Asian), and my dad is a Christian. I grew up Christian, but the more I read, the more I tend to believe that religion is created to elevate humankind to more than what we are - just plain old animals on this great earth. Christianity (and I know I’m going to get a lot of hate mail now) just happened to have a better marketing plan.
That being said, I had no problems with the stickers and have no problems with the new ruling, either. Anything that sparks debate among our (more and more) lethargic youth is good.

By Louis

January 13, 2005 04:31 PM | Link to this

Sean I did not take any of your words to mean I was, I just wanted any readers out there to understand I am not! I believe We as a nation did more and do more to help one another than the Federal Government ever did. Take the Tsunami fund raiser that are raising millions to support people that for the majority are against our “Religious� beliefs and some whom wish to do us harm. How much more, could we do if we were not taxed to study the sex life of a fly? I firmly belief that most men, religious or not do have the common trait of compassion for one another. It is only when they get in larger groups that they follow the leader mindset overrules their own gut feeling of doing what is right.

*Mans right are by design of God or Nature, depending upon ones belief, but a Government or Company’s right is based solely upon the power than man bestows it. * The trouble is that power when not keep in check it gets corrupted!

My last word for the day as I need to sign off: Too the Original arguments of the sticker. I am a Christian and believe in a Supreme person and in the Bible. I also believe that my children can be taught at home and in the Church or Churches, I choose to attend. I do not claim to be religious because to me that is just another title. “Tell me, What Religion was JESUS?. When I profess to be a Christian, I mean it a saying I believe that Jesus died on the cross at Calvary to wash my sins clean so I may enter into HIS Kingdom. With that said, I do not believe that anything but faith can prove how we came about! No Science has proven it yet and I doubt it will. Let them teach evolution all they want, but let them also be honest in stating that it is a belief that requires a certain amount of Faith not unlike those of the Christian beliefs. It does not need to be taught in the primary schools where by law children must attend unless home-schooled. Let it be taught in the Universities, where the Students would have a choice of taking it or not. Forcing it on our children is to propagate a “Religion� of Non-Belief! The biggest problem we face as Americans today is that “People� want to make our Constitution a living, breathing and ever changing document, depending upon the make up of the Supreme Court. The only changes should be made by constitutionally authorized Amendments! To understand the Constitution, we need to understand the mindset of the framers of it. There are many papers written by them that are not allowed in classrooms because it would show the truth and the Federal Government would loose the majority of its Power it wrongfully hold today!

Hope to converse with you again.

By Randy

January 13, 2005 04:31 PM | Link to this

Why would anyone in their right mind not want to believe in God? I don’t understand. Wouldn’t you want to think that a “heaven” exists, that you are more important than a dead bug or animal when you die? That there is a reason for life? There is so much evidence out there that God exists and so little that he doesn’t, why be negative? I don’t get it.

By David

January 13, 2005 04:31 PM | Link to this

Randy, I assume the Middle Ages you refer to is the one that thought the Sun revolved around the Earth, that the Earth was flat, and that if you sailed too far away from land you would fall of the face of the Earth. Yes, those are the kind of facts I want my children to learn in school.

By Kurt

January 13, 2005 04:32 PM | Link to this

For those of you who are concerned about teaching evolution to you kids remember the following: Mom looks like this… Dad looks like this… And the child looks a bit like both. EVOLUTION!

By Eric W

January 13, 2005 04:34 PM | Link to this

Christopher said I’m afraid, to me, that the notion of Creationism falls far short of being palatable.

I understand that completely. If you would like to discuss this further then please email me from the link on my name.

By cj

January 13, 2005 04:34 PM | Link to this

I’m with you Randy!!!…this is all you have to do to win the $250,000…& no one has claimed it in 15 years. If I believed in evolution I would take a shot at it!! No one has collected it because it can’t be proven. Take a look at the site to see more details..it’s legit. Something cannot just be made out of nothing, God always existed because he is eternal & infinite. He has no begining & no end. He always was.

http://www.drdino.com/Ministry/250k/index.jsp How to collect the $250,000: Prove beyond reasonable doubt that the process of evolution (option 3 above, under “known options”) is the only possible way the observed phenomena could have come into existence. Only empirical evidence is acceptable.

Persons wishing to collect the $250,000 may submit their evidence in writing or schedule time for a public presentation. A committee of trained scientists will provide peer review of the evidence offered and, to the best of their ability, will be fair and honest in their evaluation and judgment as to the validity of the evidence presented. If you are convinced that evolution is an indisputable fact, may I suggest that you offer $250,000 for any empirical or historical evidence against the general theory of evolution. This might include the following: The earth is not billions of years old (thus destroying the possibility of evolution having happened as it is being taught). No animal has ever been observed changing into any fundamentally different kind of animal. No one has ever observed life spontaneously arising from nonliving matter. Matter cannot make itself out of nothing. My suggestion: Proponents of the theory of evolution would do well to admit that they believe in evolution, but they do not know that it happened the way they teach. They should call evolution their “faith” or “religion,” and stop including it in books of science. Give up faith in the silly religion of evolutionism, and trust the God of the Bible (who is the Creator of this universe and will be your Judge, and mine, one day soon) to forgive you and to save you from the coming judgment on man’s sin.

*NOTE: When I use the word evolution, I am not referring to the minor variations found in all of the various life forms (microevolution). I am referring to the general theory of evolution which believes these five major events took place without God: Time, space, and matter came into existence by themselves. Planets and stars formed from space dust. Matter created life by itself. Early life-forms learned to reproduce themselves. Major changes occurred between these diverse life forms (i.e., fish changed to amphibians, amphibians changed to reptiles, and reptiles changed to birds or mammals).

By John

January 13, 2005 04:35 PM | Link to this

I think it’s a travesty they got rid of it. In fact, I think we should take the stickers a step further. Gravitational theory? Give it a sticker. Quantum theory? Give it a sticker. Why stop at science? History is made up of much theory, too. Math? Plenty of it. Heck, we could subject the Bible to it, too, since it’s so open to interpretation. Stickers all around!

Perhaps you could take this as an opportunity to teach your child that science is full of disagreement and that science is not truly a “science”. If you want your child exposed only to the parts of science which fit your belief system (what about sexuality and other controversial subjects?) then perhaps you should consider home-schooling where you can control every aspect of your child’s education. Or…you could let him get exposed to the real world before he’s 30 and trust that you did a good enough job raising him that he will find the same truth you did in spite of what some may teach him. If you truly believe in Creationism exclusive of evolution as truth then why are you so worried? Is perhaps your faith not as strong as you protest?

By Randy

January 13, 2005 04:35 PM | Link to this

David I can use that argument my way also.

By Jerry

January 13, 2005 04:35 PM | Link to this

Why would anyone in their right mind not want to believe in God? I don’t understand. Wouldn’t you want to think that a “heaven� exists, that you are more important than a dead bug or animal when you die? That there is a reason for life? There is so much evidence out there that God exists and so little that he doesn’t, why be negative? I don’t get it.

Randy,

Do some Googling for Pascal’s Wager.

By Ann

January 13, 2005 04:36 PM | Link to this

Randy: It’s because I’m not negative about my life that I don’t need to think I’m going somewhere better after death. I love my life, and live it to its fullest. I encourage you to do the same. The millions of real estate you claim to own or manage might not be as fulfilling as you think it is!

By Steve

January 13, 2005 04:37 PM | Link to this

There appears to be a major misunderstanding about the constitution and “separation of church and state�. To start with, the words separation of church and state, do NOT appear any where in the constitution. (Go read it). The constitution prohibits government form from establishing any law that will restrict our religious freedoms. The only suggestion being made in this argument is that schools be allowed to suggest other theories for life exist, not that teaching of evolution be discontinued. Why the opposition to presenting more than one theory?

By Jerry

January 13, 2005 04:39 PM | Link to this

cj,

That’s where Hovind is being dishonest. He doesn’t want people to prove evolution, he wants someone to prove the origins of the universe and life. That is not what evolution is about.

By Louis

January 13, 2005 04:41 PM | Link to this

Sean, I will be here for a few more minutes if you care to get the last word in :}

By JAY

January 13, 2005 04:41 PM | Link to this

So, evolution isn’t mentioned in the bible, so it shouldn’t be taught? Neither is Algebra. Will Jesus love me more if I skip that class?
It is beyond me as to why christians are so violently opposed to any other views. Is it because truth hurts or is your little bubble too scary to live outside of?

By Randy

January 13, 2005 04:41 PM | Link to this

CJ The evolutionists have no case, or they would collect the $250K quick. But they don’t want to here it. Why, because if macro-evolution doesn’t exist(and it doesn’t) they have unfinished business with the creator of this world. People, I don’t make the rules, I just follow them.

By Greg

January 13, 2005 04:42 PM | Link to this

JUDGE: The judge said that the sticker sends “a message that the school board agrees with the beliefs of Christian fundamentalists and creationists.” COUNTERARGUMENT: - it is not too much of a stretch to ask the question: If the aforementioned group of people believe that it is a fact that grass is green, what do you do with a sticker stating the fact? JUDGE: “Due to the manner in which the sticker refers to evolution as a theory, the sticker also has the effect of undermining evolution education to the benefit of those Cobb County citizens who would prefer that students maintain their religious beliefs regarding the origin of life,” COUNTERARGUMENT: Since when is promoting critical thinking regarding a theory such a bad thing in educational circles? Also, who cares if it has a side affect of students maintaining their religious beliefs? It is irrelevant in this case. It is only relevant if the state should happen to somehow suppress a particular religious belief. JUDGE: “The school board has effectively improperly entangled itself with religion by appearing to take a position,” COUNTERARGUMENT: What if the majority of the citizens of the county think the textbook in question appears to take the side against religion by not clearly explaining or not explaining at all the theoretical nature of some of the content of the book? Doesn’t the board of education have not only the right but also the responsibility to keep it’s position from being overtly “anti-religious” (which is a forbidden position of the government according to the constitution). In the aforementioned case, the sticker would make things more balanced (and keep the textbook as a whole in accordance with the constitution).

By Akeya

January 13, 2005 04:42 PM | Link to this

Thank goodness!!

When I first read that story I thought that it was a joke. I was disheartened to see that it was a true situation.

Religion should be taught at home and at church. Not in the school (unless it’s a religious school).

By David

January 13, 2005 04:43 PM | Link to this

Can any pro-creationist out there debate evolution without using the Bible? Are non-Christians doomed to hell if they don’t believe in God or creationism? I think not! I know too many good people that are devout to their non-Christian religion. Am I to believe that their God is worse than the Christian God?

By cj

January 13, 2005 04:44 PM | Link to this

It’s no use I’m out of here. May God bless you all on your journeys. “For we walk by faith & not by sight.” 2 Corinthians 5-7.

By Randy

January 13, 2005 04:44 PM | Link to this

Ann, I love my life to, happily married, 2 children etc. That’s why I am doing this discussion, I have done massive reading on this subject and Macro-evolution is a joke. Simple as that.

By Andy

January 13, 2005 04:44 PM | Link to this

Jay, don’t you think Noah used a little algebra when he built the Ark? Also, who’s being violent? Can’t people disagree anymore without being accused of being violent? Man, please…

By Truth

January 13, 2005 04:44 PM | Link to this

* The Truth is what you believe, no matter the facts, for if you believe it then no fact will make it a lie, lest you change your mind and then you are believing another truth….*

By Jerry

January 13, 2005 04:45 PM | Link to this

Steve, read all of these comments and you’ll see why there’s opposition to Creationism as an alternative theory. It’s completely and utterly without basis.

Also, the Constitution also forbids the respecting of any religion which is what this label does. It respects fundamental Christianity over other religions.

And, btw, ever notice how fundamental anything is typically used to denote an extremist viewpoint? Fundamental radicals, fundamental muslims, fundamental christians. They all fit.

By D Charobee

January 13, 2005 04:45 PM | Link to this

Who would have ever thought this argument would have evolved into what it has. Clearly, only divine intervention from a being with God-like powers could have brought us to this Solomon-like ending. Too bad this took longer than six days from initiation to cessation. Yet, some would hope for a reincarnation, or at least an immaculate rebirth of the whole matter. Until then, let us rest!

By BackwardsBoy

January 13, 2005 04:48 PM | Link to this

The sticker didn’t pass the 3 prong test applied by the court, but the court explained it wrong. The judge basically said the sticker was an “endorsement of religion” which is not allowed. On the contrary, the sticker is actually a DISAPPROVAL of religion… the religion of evolution… which is also disallowed.

Anyone who has studied the theory of evolution recognizes that there are problems (e.g., there is no evidence in the fossil record of a new species ever evolving, dating methods are incredibly subjective, etc.).

As a result, it takes a FAITH to believe that evolution is true. Thus, it’s a religion, of sorts.

Those of you who think this challenge of evolution makes Georgia look “backward” and “uneducated” please tell me what evidence you have in support of evolution. Could someone please post some scientific facts (not guesses) that support the THEORY of evolution?

By Jerry

January 13, 2005 04:48 PM | Link to this

Still waiting on any solid evidence that Creationism is a valid scientific theory.

Hello???

By jeremy barton

January 13, 2005 04:49 PM | Link to this

It takes more faith to believe in evolution than creation.

Also, if what the judge ruled is correct and the sticker establishes a religion? What religion is it? Christian, Jews, and Muslims all believe in creation. Only a minor of people believe in evolution.

By David

January 13, 2005 04:49 PM | Link to this

Why don’t the pro-creationists dispute the theory of gravity? That’s also a theory. Nobody seems to have a problem with that. Why?

By Again

January 13, 2005 04:49 PM | Link to this

I am one of the few here who did go to private religious school. A Church of Christ school in Tennessee. All teachings related to any type of sex, reproduction (even on the cellular level), teaching of the human body as it related to sexual reproduction, teaching women about what a menstrual cycle really was, procreation, evolution, other religions, even other Christian religons except Church of Christ, were completely forbidden. You could be expelled for expressing views on such things. The only view science or home ec’ teachers were allowed to express was God made men, God made women, God makes babies, etc. When I went to the University of TN and had my first biology class, I flunked. I had no understanding of mitosis, meosis, micro or micro evolution. I didn’t even know what a cell was or the components of a cell. Quite frankly, I was probably the only 18 year old at college that really had no knowledge of where babies came from, I mean, I had no idea of sperm, eggs, etc. and the united of such. Is this what you people really want for your children?

By Andy

January 13, 2005 04:49 PM | Link to this

My answers to David’s questions/statements…

(David) Can any pro-creationist out there debate evolution without using the Bible? (Andy)nope, doesn’t bother us though…

(David)Are non-Christians doomed to hell if they don’t believe in God or creationism? (Andy)yep…sorry bro…

(David) I think not! I know too many good people that are devout to their non-Christian religion. (Andy)too bad, it doesn’t work like that…

(David)Am I to believe that their God is worse than the Christian God? (Andy) yep…

By Christopher

January 13, 2005 04:50 PM | Link to this

There is so much evidence out there that God exists and so little that he doesn’t

I am just an ignorant non-believer. Please, please enlightened one, tell me of this EVIDENCE of the existence of god for I have not found any on my own. I am but a babe in the woods … please help me. No really, any evidence will do (as long as it’s not circumstantial…)

By Truth

January 13, 2005 04:50 PM | Link to this

David, Yes I can…see my earlier statement about Truth!

Creationist base their belief on “FAITH”.

Evolutionalist do the same, only a diferent faith.

Tell me DAVID, Have we stopped evolving? If so, does that mean we are the best we are ever going to be?

If not, name one man, plant or animal that has evolved in the last 200 hundred years on its own.

The Truth is what you believe, because no matter my argument, you will believe what you may!

God Bless all be they want it or not:}

By Mike

January 13, 2005 04:52 PM | Link to this

Most of those who disagree with this ruling are doing so for the wrong reasons. They believe that this is a ruling against the teaching of religion. Far from it in fact. This ruling PROTECTS the teaching of religion. Because there are so many different religious beliefs in this world, you can not place emphasis on a single on in a public school. While Christians in this tend have an inherent belief that they are the only practicing religion, and the only correct one for that matter, this could not be further from the truth. There are plenty of Jews, Muslims, Buddhist, etc. that have different beliefs and pay taxes that support our schools. This country was largely founded by individuals seeking to flee the opressive nature of a state sponsored religion. The Seperation of Church and State ensures that your beliefs, whatever they may be, are protected.

By Larry

January 13, 2005 04:52 PM | Link to this

As a Cobb County Taxpayer, I’m glad to see my school board is so flush with cash that it can afford to promote and then defend in court such clearly unconstitutional policies. I feel very comfortable now that my children will have all the supplies they could need, and their teachers will be amply paid. If the school board has this kind of money, everything should be just grand.

By George

January 13, 2005 04:52 PM | Link to this

Wow, I’ve wasted far too much of my day on this silly blog. Everyone is polarized and this ‘debate’ will end only when life as we know it does.

G’day folks, I’m gonna stop wasting my time here.

By Scott

January 13, 2005 04:53 PM | Link to this

So how soon before The Pythagorean Theorem requires stickers in the Cobb textbooks? After all, it is only a theory that cannot be proven 100% beyond doubt.

By Again

January 13, 2005 04:54 PM | Link to this

I can remember a student being expelled for bringing a dino skeleton (mini) to school. His parents had taken him to something like Fernbank for vacation. There were no such things as dinosuars. God put the bones under the ground to confuse us.

By Victoria

January 13, 2005 04:55 PM | Link to this

on the subject of evolution, doesn’t it bother anybody else that the majority of the early “proof” comes from just one family? I mean no disparagement about the Leakeys. Well, it’s just for proofs and all, I just like objectiveness as opposed to celebrity? Could just be me.

By Melissa

January 13, 2005 04:56 PM | Link to this

As a student who has learned about evolution and creationism both-but of course in different places- I would like a say. I want to decide what I learn, and if you choose not to believe in evolution then you don’t have to. That does not, however, mean that it can’t be taught in schools. My teachers take what they know and and decide what’s best. No one really can ever be sure in science, and excuse me if you adults think that kids don’t have enough brains to realize this. We think for ourselves and formulate our own ideas on our own sense of logic. We are not brainwashed idiots who take everything that comes out of our teachers mouth as the gospel truth. As for creationism, I think everyone should read Inherit the Wind. This is a great play with very valid points.Oh yes, and I read it in school. Do you guys actually believe the whole seven days story? I mean, it doesn’t take an idiot to realize that you can’t take the bible literally all the time. I think that creation as told in the bible i further proof of evolution: things happen slowly, not all at once. And the separation of church and state? Well here’s what I think-and remember I am a student and apparently can’t think for myself. Who’s to say that church means Christianity? How would you guys feel if all the Buddhists wanted to insert their ideas into the public school system? You know, there are people other than Christians who live in America. How can we cater to all of them? How can we say that their theory isn’t right? We shouldn’t have to put a sticker on a book just to appease a certain group of people. If a book wants to present evolution as a fact(there’s a whole lot more evidence of that than creationism) then let them do it. I will decide what I want to believe.

By Ann

January 13, 2005 04:56 PM | Link to this

Randy: Good! Well then why do you think I need to know that there is somewhere better for me after death? I feel I have enough “reason for life” to justify being here now. I don’t need to think that there is this utopia waiting for me once I leave this “horrible” earth. Another thing…up until a couple of posts ago you were extremely aggressive. I understand that this is something in which you believe strongly, but isn’t the way to persuade in making strong and eloquent points, not ranting and raving while putting down others’ points? Gotta run - need to go work out so that my body is in tip-top shape for heaven.

By Displaced Atlantan in Minnesota

January 13, 2005 04:59 PM | Link to this

Thie entire issue is simultaneously sad and amusing. My father was head of the science department at Lovett for years (the Science awards are named in his honor) and a Southern Baptist Deacon and Sunday School teacher. He saw no conflict between his Christian faith and evolution. As he said, “The Bible tells us that God created the earth; it doesn’t tell us how.”

I would suggest to you that most Christian denominations (those where you don’t have to check your brain at the door) also see no conflict between Christianity and evolution. Scripture admonishes us to love God with our minds as well as with our hearts.

By Christopher

January 13, 2005 04:59 PM | Link to this

Sorry Randy, you no longer scare me the most of anybody on this board. That distinction goes to Andy.

*(David) Can any pro-creationist out there debate evolution without using the Bible? (Andy)nope, doesn’t bother us though…

(David)Are non-Christians doomed to hell if they don’t believe in God or creationism? (Andy)yep…sorry bro…

(David) I think not! I know too many good people that are devout to their non-Christian religion. (Andy)too bad, it doesn’t work like that…

(David)Am I to believe that their God is worse than the Christian God? (Andy) yep…*

Yep, Andy, sorry, bro, but you need to go on back to the woods and help to keep all the deer down in Coweta County from starving - education sounds a bit too complex for you. Hey, but you don’t need education when you got jesus, huh?!? [shudder]

By David

January 13, 2005 04:59 PM | Link to this

To Andy: Your beliefs may be Christian (there not) but they are definitley not American.

By Greg

January 13, 2005 05:00 PM | Link to this

Steve hit the nail on the head regarding the whole matter. He is exactly right concerning the “separation of church and state”. The phrase is no where in the constitution. If you carefully read it, you will find that it does only prohibit government from establishing any law that will restrict our religious freedoms.

Yes, I too do not undertand why there is opposition to presenting more than one theory. I also do not understand why people are so sensitive to the theory of evolution (actually I do). If you want to question quantum theory or string theory or some other type of theory, people don’t care.

It is only when you start pointing out the gaps and contradictions in the latest and greatest version of the theory of evoluion or assumptions made in the use carbon dating methods that people get the most outraged. I think it is because as one of my friends put it, “I see that it is a theory, but I have based my whole worldview upon it and it is very hard to let go of.” (Sounds a lot like a religion to me.)

By Jason

January 13, 2005 05:03 PM | Link to this

At Last! This decision is a banner day for free-thinking in this state. For far too long, laws and policies in this country have been based on obscure passages in an obscure book. And that’s all it is people, a book. It was not written by God. It was written, translated and edited many times by human beings. Human beings who have the same skewed beliefs and biases we all have.

Anyone who doubts this has obviously never read their Bible carefully enough. Remember, this is the same book that insists anyone who works on the sabbath or eats pork should be stoned to death. At least no one in this intolerant state has ever tried to teach my children that particular practice in a public school.

By BB

January 13, 2005 05:05 PM | Link to this

Follow this link to read reasoned articles in support of creationism.

http://www.icr.org and click on Dr. John’s Q&A

You won’t see any Bible verses being used to support the theory, just plain old facts and logic.

If you’ve posted a challenge to creationists to support their theory and you fail to check this out, that’s fine. Just realize that you are a hypocrite.

By Andy

January 13, 2005 05:05 PM | Link to this

Christopher, thanks for the power you just assigned to me by your comments. I guess you haven’t heard of the strategy of “demonstrating absurdity by being absurd”, have you? So many of you bloggers today have blown so much hot air around this website that I thought it would be amusing to have some fun with you. You took the bait, dude. Perhaps you will evolve into a more intelligent creature having had this experience. lol

By Jim

January 13, 2005 05:05 PM | Link to this

Sorry to digress, but Scott - the Pythagorean Theorem is NOT a theory - the the square of the length of the hypotenuse of a right triangle IS equal to the sum of the squares of the lengths of the other two sides. I know you were trying to make a tounge-in-cheek point, but …

By Jerry

January 13, 2005 05:08 PM | Link to this

on the subject of evolution, doesn’t it bother anybody else that the majority of the early “proof� comes from just one family? I mean no disparagement about the Leakeys. Well, it’s just for proofs and all, I just like objectiveness as opposed to celebrity? Could just be me.

Victoria,

You are rather ignorant of the history of the evolution of evidence supporting evolution (forgive the pun ;) )

Read the links and pick up copies of the books mentioned in these comments.

By Jill

January 13, 2005 05:09 PM | Link to this

Evolution is a theory from neutral scientists who studied physical, tangible evidence. The creationism theory came from a book written by….? Just because Stephen King wrote a book, does that mean everything in it is true? Obviously not. So what makes the bible “fact”? Prove creationism without using the bible as a reference. Then, we’ll listen. Till then, sit your slack-jawed, self-righteous, right-leaning, religion-forcing moronic butts down and shove it.

By JohnSteel

January 13, 2005 05:11 PM | Link to this

If you’re interested this website has a lot of information on scientific support for evolution and why creationism / intelligent design are not good science:

http://www.talkorigins.org/

By Jason

January 13, 2005 05:13 PM | Link to this

Oh my word… It’s time to propose another constitutional amendment! This time to solidify the separation of Church and State! I’m tired of the religious conservatives, who have hijacked the Republican Party, trying to promote their way of life on everyone else. No wonder this country is taking several steps backwards…

By Anthony

January 13, 2005 05:14 PM | Link to this

I find it utterly hilarious that Creationists are (pardon the pun) raising hell about evolution being taught in schools, based on the the “lack of scientific fact”. The real problem is that they know if people are educated about other possible origins of life, the church cash cow may run dry, so they are fighting tooth and nail to keep people dumbed down and pacified by, “You have to have FAITH.” The destruction of faith is the first step in evolution. Take responsibility for your own actions. Don’t be concerned with what others believe. There are plenty of people out there who are too lazy to search for facts and readily duped into buying into the Christian scam….don’t worry about it. Your mega-church will survive. Why is it that Christians feel like we all have to believe in the nonsense they believe in? Weak, weak, people.

By Dave

January 13, 2005 05:18 PM | Link to this

Of course they don’t talk about Evolution in the Bible, they don’t talk about Dinosaurs either. Is that a THEORY as well? Just because it is not in the bible doesn’t mean that it can’t be a theory. What about trains, planes and automobiles? This is 2005 get with it people!

By jerome

January 13, 2005 05:23 PM | Link to this

I would like to see this disclaimer in textbooks, afterall we don’t want the government pushing antireligious views. The theory of evolution is science best guess as to the origin and diversity of biological lifeforms when non naturalistic explantions of beginnings and data interpetation are excluded.

By Tom

January 13, 2005 05:39 PM | Link to this

I am astonished and amazed at the lack of scientific knowledge of many of the posters to this list. They can’t tell the difference between a theory or a law or scientific evidence or anything else that would qualify them to speak on a scientific subject. The level of science education in the US is among the lowest in the industrial nations and it is evident be reading some of these pathetic replies. This would be hilarious if it weren’t so tragic.

By G-Man

January 13, 2005 06:17 PM | Link to this

It’s refreshing to see so many people using their brains(that God created). For a theory to become fact it must pass the last test of being able to be repeated by anyone in the same environment. No one can
prove or disprove the existence of God, it has to be taken on faith that God created the creation not vice versa. It’s impossible for evolution to exsist, which it does, without God. What force but gravity as we interpret it compressed matter to form the Big Bang. What created gravity, matter, atoms, porks, corks, nuclear reation, the microbial world, time space, the laws of nature that apply to as far as mankind can see or hear into all directions surrounding planet earth…As our brains are designed to interpret data logically with supporting evidence…we come to the unanswerable thought…either God or matter came from nothing. I choose God, has always existed and stared the engine of evolution and it’s our responsibility to learn about God through evolution. If I were God, which I’m not I would have I done nothing different…it’s all faith. For Christianity… Jesus Christ was before time a Jew,is today a Jew,and will forever be a Jew…there will never be a time when He will be a Christian. And I didn’t write the Bible… I study it’s contents and attempt to fairly and accurately describe it’s contents as well as any religious belief as the Vada, Koran, and Torrah. Evolution transends religious beliefs that restrict the brain from functioning as it was predestinedly designed through the process of natural selection to become and will continue to evolve as long as the human race continues to work together and not destroy itself. God has created all the laws of the known universe that function consistently so far as mankind is willing to venture…all through the vehicle of evolution. For me evolution helps deepen my value of life.

By BJ

January 14, 2005 08:06 AM | Link to this

Those darned sneaky Christians! LOL C’mon, people - if the government REALLY believed in evolution and natural selection, why does it have so many social programs? You’re being played and you don’t even know it…this shouldn’t even be a story, much less a judicial discussion.

By Davey Bob

January 14, 2005 08:09 AM | Link to this

My point of view? Who the !#!@#$ do the the fasci-creationists think created evolution?

I think the Creationists have a point about whether evolution happens, or not. It is pretty obvious, after all, that they didn’t evolve from apes. Not much, at least, and not to the point of thinking for themselves.

It is wasn’t for the weather and the Yankees, I’d love to live in the North. At least the Yankess can carry on an intelligent conversation, and both conservative and liberal, they do tend to think for themselves.

By Michael

January 14, 2005 08:17 AM | Link to this

Folks, the Church, its affiliates and members are very biased when discussing ideas, theories and laws that might undermine its authority. For many, many years the Church tried to surpress the theory that the Earth might not be at the center of the solar system (and in fact the universe). I know it is hard to accept but time, research and common sense always (I hope) prevail and when the theory of evolution is finally proven to be fact the Church will have to scramble to keep itself relevent. I, for one, am impressed at the average Bible thumper’s ability to maintain an idea that will eventually go down in flames. Fight your fight and Good Luck.

By bonnie

January 14, 2005 08:18 AM | Link to this

Very disappointed here. Evolution is a theory and cannot be proved. I’ve never understood why it’s taught so ‘religiously’.

By Antione

January 14, 2005 08:19 AM | Link to this

It’s amzing to see how people use their God given wisdom to try and prove his non-existence. Evolution is not fact. I have a BS in Biology and I never thought evolution was true. If you study the human body alone, it was hand crafted and created. The Lord says that he catches the wise in their own craftiness and that their thoughts are futile.
What also amazes me is that the more people try to disprove the Bible, more and more facts are being found to prove its trueness. God’s glory is being revealed more and more on this earth. I pray that you unbelievers and separation of church and state folk open your eyes. First off, the constitution never separated church and state. That’s another story for another time. Jesus said that the Gospel is to be preached in all the world. Not just in your church and in your home. FOr many years, govenment and people have kept Christians between the four walls of the church. Those days are over. I repsect each and everyone’s religions, but wide and broad is the gate or path to destruction, and straight and narrow is the gate to everlasting life. Meaning, there’s only one true and living God and his name is Christ, and he’s the only way to heaven. Our forefathers would be ashamed to see where this country has gone. This country was founded and Christian values because the majority of them were Christians. DO your research, it’s been proven that over 60% of our constitution are direct scriptures from the Bible. The end draws near, and there are alot of deceived, unprepared, lost, and hardened heart folk out here. One day, every knee shall bow, and every tongue shall confess that Jesus is Lord, so you might as well do it now to reap the eternal benefits. Because later will be just that, too late.

By EvolutionIsBS

January 14, 2005 08:19 AM | Link to this

The left is so terrified of mentioning any competing theory to evolution because it would imply that there is a higher power than man, and their arrogance cannot stomach the thought that they are not in control. Evolution is so rediculous that it takes more “faith” to believe the theory than it does to believe that we were created.

By Katy M

January 14, 2005 08:22 AM | Link to this

Good one BJ…..

Evolution is SCIENCE people NOT religion. A belief in God and Evolution are not mutually exclusive!! I know many people who have faith in a God yet also use their minds and not take the bible so literally when it comes to creation. There is enough data to back up evolution that if it were not for the social/religious repercussions it would be a “law”….you know like the Laws of thermodynamics…or the law of gravity.

By Howard

January 14, 2005 08:24 AM | Link to this

Politics, not religion, not science, is the central driving force behind the actions of the Cobb County School Board. Specifically, who gets elected and who does not. If any of our School Board members are so uninformed that he or she did not know that their action would be struck down (and rightly so) by our court system, then he or she is not a capable enough person for the job description. One does not need to take an historical perspective to understand that life in a society controlled by any one religion is precarious. Just look to Afghanistan and the Taliban. However, our founding fathers did take history into account when they framed the Constitution of the United States of America. They debated the place of religion fiercely when they added the Bill of Rights to the original document. Because they saw the lessons of history and understood that powerful religious groups were a thing to be feared, they added these words to the Constitution FIRST in the Bill of Rights: Amendment 1 Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. Politicians, since the ratification of the Constitution, have trotted out this issue during election times, knowing that it would always appeal to a large percentage of voters. It is a part of the same political bag of tricks that gives us kissing babies, and talking like backwoods bumpkins. When are we, the taxpayers, going to tire of paying our hard-earned money to help the politicians pulling these stunts to get themselves elected?

By Anne Newton

January 14, 2005 08:25 AM | Link to this

I am outraged. There is nothing in the Cobb County board’s statement that says anything more than I was taught about evolution when I was in school. It IS a theory. The fact that it is a wrong theory is irrelevant. Why doesn’t the story name the federal judge who obviously can’t read and is so willing to embrace the sweeping wave of constriction of and paring away of the rights our forefathers guaranteed in the Constitution? While it may seem to be only anti-Christian what is truly happening is anti-freedom and it will just get worst unless the tide turns to those guarantees U.S. judges are now spitting upon!

By Dawn

January 14, 2005 08:28 AM | Link to this

Christy -

I agree with you, both should be taught in schools - regardless of ones religious beliefs.

I am very disappointed in the courts decision.

Our society is degrading. Our founding father’s based everything around God. That is our heritage.

By Lois

January 14, 2005 08:28 AM | Link to this

“In the beginning, God created” I believe the Bible from beginning to the end. No doubts!!! If you can’t teach the possibility that we were created, then don’t teach that we evolved even if it is only a “theory”. I raised my kids in church but for kids that never go to church this theory of eveloution is the only thing they learn. So yes, it is promoting athiesm.

By Hunter

January 14, 2005 08:29 AM | Link to this

Sorry to all the Creationists: you can say “I dont believe in evolution” all you’d like. Evolution, unlike Creationism, does not rely on whether or not you believe in it. It’s there. Provide me with evidence for Creationsism, and build up a solid case for it that relies on deductive reasoning, and maybe I’ll listen to you. We’ve landed on the Moon, Elvis is dead, evolution just happens.

By greg thames

January 14, 2005 08:29 AM | Link to this

Where in the Constitution is there any mention of separation of Church and State? The only mention was in a letter that was meant to keep the State out of Church. Not liberals turn it around and use it as a crutch.What are these people AFRAID of if they do not believe that GOD exists?

By David New

January 14, 2005 08:31 AM | Link to this

This is idiotic. This is NOT about Creationism or Intelligent Design. The stickers made no reference to either. This is about Evolution. Evolution is not even qualified to be a theory - IMO. Do some research. I have scientifically disproven evolution years ago after years of research. Evolution is a nice story, but is not even remotely physically possible. It amazes me that people are so eager to find a way to say “There is no god.”, that they throw away basic scientific laws in order to believe a made-up story. You don’t have to believe in evolution to reject the story of Creation.

By Karl

January 14, 2005 08:32 AM | Link to this

Study the facts of evolution and it might take you a couple of million years to understand it…Study the Word of God and and everything will fall into place in a day… Which one you chose? God bless this judge who stands for what is right… This nation/country was founded by followers of God, our Creator and the Creator of all…not by believers in evolution (with all due respect for those who belive this), God bless them all as well…

By Trudy

January 14, 2005 08:33 AM | Link to this

You know, when I was young, I learned religion and all my Church’s tenets in Sunday School, not public school. If we start teaching religious beliefs in PUBLIC school, seems to me we should represent the public and teach all religions. I would bet that not ALL non-Christians have moved from Cobb County yet. I learned about the Garden of Eden at Church, and about Darwin in school, and I never saw the conflict. Are we not giving our children credit for being a bit smarter than to have fits over the differences?

By Greg

January 14, 2005 08:34 AM | Link to this

The next step should be to get the monkeys out of the Governor’s mansion, Congress, and the White House. That would be evolution.

By Cecile Baker

January 14, 2005 08:34 AM | Link to this

I believe the sticker should stay as it is only a theory and there are many theories that should be studied and not just one considered. I think the students should be allowed to use their brain and not just take it for granted.

By Reeves Cantwalk

January 14, 2005 08:36 AM | Link to this

I think the sticker is fine if they let us put a sticker in bibles that say “There is no scientific or historical proof in support of a man named Jesus ever walking the earth. This book was written by men to enslave other humans and it has worked. Please turn off your brain before reading.”

By Stephanie Moss

January 14, 2005 08:38 AM | Link to this

Kiling a disclaimer on evolution is ridiculous since there is no mention of creation. The schools don’t teach creation at all, just evolution, so killing the disclaimer might lead students to believe only creation.

By Amanda

January 14, 2005 08:39 AM | Link to this

FINALLY!!! Someone in this country who is not afraid to stand up for the fact that in this country there is a separation of church and state. I am so tired of the bible beaters in this country forcing the parts of the bible that not everyone believes in down our throats. People like this judge will make it much more tolerable for my children to go to school than it was for me. Kudos to you judge.

By Belinda

January 14, 2005 08:39 AM | Link to this

I have read some of the blogs. If you can “thank God for activist judges” and “not be as backward as Alabama”, then you had better be glad that your were created by a gracious and truthful God. If you had “evolved” you might be something different than what you are today. I think our children need to know the truth so that they can compare it to theories!! Your created neighbors in Alabama forgive your unkind words.

By John Hamrich

January 14, 2005 08:39 AM | Link to this

For any community to think that Christianity is the only religion in the world is plain bigotry!

Seperation of church and state is what this country was founded upon, therefore the court has reinforced the true meaning of relegious freedom by insuring we do not have educational systems confusing our children with the differences between religious theories and accepted science.

Religion should remain a personal choice, not to be injected into the school system to question scientific knowledge. Take your personal beliefs to your place of worship, not to your public schools!

By John

January 14, 2005 08:40 AM | Link to this

The premise of Science is that you cannot prove anything without a doubt. As science progresses and new technologies emerge new theories are developed and old theories become increasingly more verifiable or debunked. In this case Science continues to show the progression of species and how we “EVOLVE”!! Where are the facts about God creating the universe? If you can show me I will listen. Until then, let the children learn. If you are the ones trying to push your beliefs then you are the “ACTIVIST” not the judges.

By Antione

January 14, 2005 08:41 AM | Link to this

Hey Hunter,

As someone said above, it takes more faith to believe in evolution than it does creation. No one has to prove anything to you but God. His word is undebatable and it stands on its own. I encourage you to buy some of the books by Lee Strobel. He was a guy who tried to prove that God(CHrist)didn’t exist and the more he tried, the more the Lord revealed truth to him. Now he’s a born-again Christian. THe Lord is faithful. If you want to truth, seek it, and he’ll give it to you. I claim you salvation right now. You’ll be saved also.

By Lyrazel

January 14, 2005 08:42 AM | Link to this

Ah, I must be great to live in a county that has money to toss away! Someone was paid to put those stickers in, now someone will be paid to remove the page (I doubt those stickers are removable.) Cobb citizens seem oblivious to the waste of money…by arguing over faith vs science! A classic example of your tax dollars at work Cobb County. You do Georgia proud!

By Liberty or Death

January 14, 2005 08:43 AM | Link to this

Michael,

I am a Christian that is open to ideas and do not mind the teaching of Evolution as the more they learn the more the Bible is proven correct. If in fact Evolution could ever be proven, then my world would not fall apart because I would not have as much to loose as those who believe in the Theory of Evolution, when the scriptures are fulfilled. My trouble with this ruling and so many like it is that it once again confirms an “Un-Constitutional� power that the Federal Government uses via threats of withholding money or use of arms to blind the people to the fact that * “This COUNTRY was FOUNDED by MEN of FAITH�*. Evolutionists as well as Christians are the losers here, because we have been loosing our Constitutional Rights for some time now.

By Katy M

January 14, 2005 08:44 AM | Link to this

For those who want to see current proof of evolution….it’s all around you. In the last 200 years we humans have evolved….our minds have evolved…the technology that we enjoy are evidence of evolution. Seems to me that most people do not understand the “theory of natural selection” and want to argue against evolution because they think it means we came from monkeys….which is not what evolution means.

It doesn’t some down to evolution excluding the possibility of a God…….it is obvious that it is totally misunderstood by these people that are getting so enraged by the topic.

By Jack

January 14, 2005 08:44 AM | Link to this

HOORAY!!! A very sane judge who recognizes the scientific definition of the word ‘theory’. Now keep your six-day creation delusion in your church and out of our public schools so our students (and our future) can compete with the rest of the industrialized world without believing that reality is actually some ancient fantasy!

By Lynda

January 14, 2005 08:45 AM | Link to this

It seems that everything in today’s society comes with a warning label, most of which are nearly comical. Do we really want our textbooks to come with warning labels?

Evolution is a theory? So is everything we know as fact, and theories are ever-changing, growing, and — yes — evolving. Let it go, people.

By Julie

January 14, 2005 08:45 AM | Link to this

We have got to get better judges in this country. If we don’t, we better fear the judgment of God !

By Gretchen

January 14, 2005 08:46 AM | Link to this

I completely agree with Mick Rizzo. To reverse it, who is to say if evolution is real and creationism is a theory? But it’s certainly odd that the “theory” has some hard core evidence and the story of creation is all about faith, beliefs, and spirituality. I personally believe in both. But like what Christy says also, that our children need to be taught about evolution AS WELL AS all the other theories about how we came to be; and then let them choose for themselves. I’m not saying bring religious theories into this because Church and State do need to be seperated. But stop forcing one idea over another down their throats. I was taught about evolution, I’m a Christian, and I believe they are both combined; and I turned out fine! :)

By Brian Curtis

January 14, 2005 08:48 AM | Link to this

The creationist crowd works hard at trying to convince the public that “only a theory” is somehow equivalent to a wild guess, and that “other theories” on the development of life abound. Both claims are false, and they know it.

In science a theory is not a guess: it’s the best available explanation that fits all known data, is testable and falsifiable, and has been repeatedly and thoroughly checked (and confirmed) by independent researchers. In other words, a theory is more of a verdict: based on solid evidence and established beyond a reasonable doubt.

As for these “other theories”—well, we hear a lot about their existence, but precious little about their details. Intelligent Design, for example, is a philsophical position, not a theory. Creation “science” is likewise not a theory because it makes no testable claims.

Here’s a quick way to distinguish theory from dogma: Ask the proponent, “What would prove your theory false?” A scientist will have a number of ready answers. A dogmatist will splutter in outrage and insist that nothing, nothing could ever prove their cherished belief false.

I applaus this oddly-worded decision. Why on earth should we waste time in science class teaching conflicting religious beliefs instead of actual science?

By Antione

January 14, 2005 08:49 AM | Link to this

You’re right Mr. John Hamrich, Christianity is not the only religion in this world. There is Ilam, Bhuddism, and Hinduism. That part is true. No one said that. I’m here to tell you, that Christ is the only way. That’s why this country is in the condition it is today. Because the Christians, have been silent and confined withing the walls of the church for too long. Also, this country was not founded upon separation of church and state. Read your constitution. It was founded on Godly principles from the BIBLE. I pray that the Lord opens your eyes and you see the truth, and the truth shall set you free. I claim your salvation.

By Anne

January 14, 2005 08:51 AM | Link to this

Come on folks! We don’t evolve. We change. You show us a human being who has become anything else and you’ll be worth billions. We adapt and change we don’t EVOLVE. If you want evidence. Read Evidence that Demands a Verdict. Come on folks. There are no Bible beaters. We all are unique individuals with our own opinions. And, we’re entitled to them. All the Cobb County board did is reference that Evolution is a Theory because the author of the book failed to put it in there. Evolution is not proven. In fact many of the evidence that was touted in previous science books are now debunked. This is not about the ability to put tags in books and label people, or segregate people. although many of you sound as though you’re trying to segregate Christians. This is about freedom and the words Separation of Church and State is NOT in the Constitution. All the Constitution does is guarantee that we are not allowed to discriminate against anyone and that the government is not allowed to establish a Church as the only Church you are allowed to attend. Get a grip folks. I keep a copy of the Constitution in my purse. When was the last time you folks even read it?

By Scott

January 14, 2005 08:52 AM | Link to this

Shameful! The warning does not mention God. Though it may benefit religious persons, it simply stated fact. Evolution, a popular theory, has never been proven. In scientific standards that makes it a theory. Popular belief does not make something fact.

The Judge, ACLU Lawyers and those who keep trying to use the establishment clause to rob citizens of personal freedoms, I say shame on you!

By Brian Curtis

January 14, 2005 08:53 AM | Link to this

Wow… your salvation has been “claimed!” Where do you cash in the bonus points per pelt?

You’re free to believe whatever you want in religious terms; but why should the schools be involved in that? Sure, evolution is not an explicitly Christian notion; neither is the freakin’ Pythagorean theorem. SO WHAT???

It’s SCIENCE, not religion. It doesn’t HAVE to promote or support Christianity, any more than the quadratic equation does! Sheesh.

By chickee

January 14, 2005 08:54 AM | Link to this

Greetings from an Atlanta native, currently residing overseas on a temporary basis to OPEN my mind to other things… I also happen to be a teacher, educating the future minds of Japan… Oh yeah, I also happen to be a well-educated individual who isn’t being brainwashed by the stupidity of a backwoods Georgia where children are NOT being encouraged to think right now…. Oh yeah, Japan also happens to be a country that is only 1% Christian. I preface my blog entry with these arrogant theories and laws for the sake of hopefully helping both sides see that I am not supportive of either. I also hope anyone actually reading this blog realizes that I am a bit angry because I am so proud to be an Atlantan and I am always enthusiastic about representing Hotlanta to ANYONE who will listen…

Evolution SHOULD be presented, JUST LIKE creationism, alienism…. because the bottom line is that they are all THEORIES… how many of you idiotic people (on both the Christian AND anti-Christian sides) ACTUALLY paid attention in Biology class and remembered the differences between a law and theory? How many of you have actually learned to THINK FOR YOURSELVES and think CRITICALLY? Ever taken a class in college, called Critical Thinking? Now, if evolution OR creationism claimed to be a LAW and we haven’t proven them to be laws, THEN I have issues with this whole fiasco.

Well, focus on the issue at hand, which is whether kids should be encouraged to be presented with ALL ideas… Let’s do a parody of this situation… Imagine that you are house shopping and your real estate agent is aware of two possible neighborhoods that you would be highly interested in. For some odd reason, they managed to ONLY show you one neighborhood, without mentioning the other…. Now, how would you feel, especially AFTER you buy a house in that sole neighborhood that was presented to you?

Stop drawing in your own emotional, personal opinions into the matter! Shame on you… we should put you guys in time out for being so selfish to your peers!

I am quite embarrassed by what’s going on in Atlanta right now… not because of my own personal opinions on the matter of evolution, but the fact that children are being discouraged from thinking.

Oh, how I shudder to think about what I will be returning to in the near future… I’ll still return, since I am definitely NOT an ex-patriot and I LOVE my America a bit too much, but I hope my beloved city can join the post-modern 21st century, where EVERYONE SHOULD be encouraged to THINK FOR THEMSELVES and SEE ALL VIEWPOINTS OF A SITUATION TO MAKE THEIR OWN DECISIONS.

By steve

January 14, 2005 08:55 AM | Link to this

Tonya writes:

January 13, 2005 01:08 PM | Link to this

As well, the Constitution’s intent was to keep government (state) out of the “church� not the church out of government (state). The law has been vastly misinterpreted. Take an American History/Government Class which contains history from American’s beginning, and study the early documents of our Founding Fathers and you will learn the truth.

Tonya, perhaps YOU should read the U.S. constitution, it hardly supports your assertions. The word GOD is NOT in the U.S. constitution! What a strange omission for those “religious” founding fathers! Could they have forgotten? I think not! Fact is this is a secular country, accept it! Keep religion education in the churches and homes.

By Brian Curtis

January 14, 2005 08:55 AM | Link to this

Of course we’re all entitled to our opinions. Heck, we’re entitled to deny the Holocaust happened if we want to.

But what gets taught in schools is another matter entirely. Science is not subject to a majority vote, and an overwhelming fundamentalist majority won’t make the earth any less round or evolution any less valid. Get some science education before you claim the right to dictate school curricula.

By Richard Roma

January 14, 2005 08:56 AM | Link to this

I have not seen the sticker, but my understanding is that it states that evolution is a theory and not a fact. Well, is this not true? From what I can remember of my studies, evolution is indeed a theory, and, in the steps taken to prove a scientific fact (hypothesis, testing etc..), the step of a scientific theory is much different than that of a scientific fact. What part of the statement on this sticker is untrue?

I don’t think the sticker was necessary, but the reasoning behind the ruling is a little strange because the sticker in no way establishes a state religion, which is prohibited by our Constitution.

By Antione

January 14, 2005 08:56 AM | Link to this

Hey Reeves Cantwalk,

About your comment, you could put that sticker in Bibles, but the fact that Jesus walked the earth and many Biblical instances have been proven already. Can you say the same about evolution.

By Dianne

January 14, 2005 08:57 AM | Link to this

Oh Brother! I cannot believe that it is considered “unconstitutional” to put a disclaimer that states the FACT that evolution is only a theory. I told my 9 year old about the theory of evolution and he bust out laughing. I don’t care if you want your children learning that we came from apes, but I raised my children with the knowledge and understanding that science cannot “prove” certain things and to accept that this universe, this earth and all its wonders, AND human beings came from “muck” “billions and billions of years ago” is preposterous. There’s no way we could have realistically “evolved” from muck to something as complex and as wonderous as the human body is with all its cells and DNA, let alone to have a brain that can imagine and create and function. There’s just no way.

Evolution is ONLY a theory. We need to be able to allow our children the right to know that it’s only a theory instead of teaching it as fact.

By Louis

January 14, 2005 09:01 AM | Link to this

Howard, You are so close but cannot see the trees because of the Forrest. Politics, is the central driving force behind the actions of the ACLU who is trying to turn this Country into a Socialist Republic! They do not give a rats @$$ about Evolutionary Theory! In addition, for the first amendment like the others, they are to limit the power of the Federal Government so as not to interfere with States Rights!

By Jim

January 14, 2005 09:03 AM | Link to this

God made the heavens and the earth and then they evolved.

By Respublicus

January 14, 2005 09:04 AM | Link to this

Like many of you, I am very pleased with today’s ruling. I perceived the situation as an attempt, by perhaps well-intentioned people, to impose a religious belief onto what is supposed to be a nonreligious school curriculum. It’s not the first time this has been tried; unfortunately, it will probably not be the last.

The odious part of this affair is that creationists tried to pass off their belief as science, and, in particular, of equal standing with the theory of evolution. One could only support that view only if one believes in no distinctions, where every utterance on any topic is as valid as the next. On that view, there are potentially 280 million competing theories with evolution.

But we don’t teach every kind of view, do we, or put warning stickers on books, because not all ideas are equal, nor are all theories equally compelling—no matter how strongly the proponents of those ideas believe them. For all its ballyhoo, creationism brings nothing new to the table, and certainly nothing testable or predictable, the two most important criteria for determining what is science and what is not.

Besides, any sticker would be a double-edged sword: Maybe we already have “approached with an open mind, studied carefully, and critically considered� the creationists’ theory and rejected it out of hand.

Or is that not open minded enough?

By Gordon

January 14, 2005 09:06 AM | Link to this

If people understood just how far the theory of evolution has fallen in recent years among scientists as an explanation for the origin of life, I wonder if they would want it taught at all in schools. It now takes more faith to believe in evolution than God. Those who so confidently wanted this debate to be determined by where the facts lead them are now either silent or ignorant. But don’t believe me, investigate and find out for yourself.

By Brian Curtis

January 14, 2005 09:06 AM | Link to this

And true to form, the creationists continue to play their one-note song: “Only a theory, only a theory.” A deliberate attempt to mislead people (and students) as to what a “theory” actuall is.

Did you know gravitation was a theory? Ever heard of atomic theory? How about the theory of relativity? All of these have been tested and confirmed only half so well as the process of evolution, yet they remain “theories.”

You know why that is? Because your understanding of the term is wrong. There is no “promotion” from theory to fact. Theories are explanations of observed facts—explanations that must make testable, falsifiable predictions that are independently tested and confirmed. They’re verdicts, not guesses.

By the way, evolution IS a fact; the theory that explains this observed phenomenon is called “natural selection.”

By Tim

January 14, 2005 09:07 AM | Link to this

I guess the only question left is how much of the taxpayers’ money the Cobb Board of Education will waste on appealing this verdict. If they spend a dime, they should all be tossed from office.

By lisa

January 14, 2005 09:07 AM | Link to this

Evolution is a theory, and the universe was not created by a big boom either. God is the author and finisher of everything. The sooner we start serving God and stop trying ot explain him, the better we will all be.

By chickee

January 14, 2005 09:08 AM | Link to this

Dianne,

Based on all the ridiculousness of this whole situation, I’m beginning to believe for a FACT that SOME PEOPLE were DEFINITELY created by the basis of Evolution… After all, most of the folks on this blog are acting like muck… it’s difficult to see that they actually have a brain that can imagine, create, and function…

By Bob

January 14, 2005 09:08 AM | Link to this

If the Cobb County School Board was really serious about teaching science to its students they would teach the same science that our leading universities teach. Go and check for yourselves, you’ll not find intelligent design or creationism included in any leading university science curriculum. That’s because it’s not science.

If the intelligent design proponents really were serious about real science and not politics, they would be presenting their “scienceâ€? and the results of their “scientific” research to the real scientific community via the time honored professional scientific peer review process. They don’t because they have no real scientific evidence or predictions to present. Faith is not science.

It’s a joke that the Cobb County School Board believe they have the scientific credentials to make any new science.

By Todd W.

January 14, 2005 09:08 AM | Link to this

Is anyone else on this blog terrified by some of the ignorance shown here? To our friends on the creationist far right: you’re honestly scaring me.

By Amanda

January 14, 2005 09:09 AM | Link to this

I am glad to know that all this has turned into is a debate about God and creation. Isnt this the type of thing we are trying to prevent from happening? To everyone out there who wants to complain about a specific topic being taught in school… There are plenty of resources about Home Schooling your children.

By Dianne

January 14, 2005 09:09 AM | Link to this

Lisa and Antoine,

I love it. Thank you for stating it. The big bang theory —- God said it and “bang!”, it was done!

By Mark

January 14, 2005 09:11 AM | Link to this

Who’s says you can’t believe in evolution “AND” God? The bible doesn’t describe Adam as 6’-1” with brown hair and blue eyes…

By Julie

January 14, 2005 09:11 AM | Link to this

Once again judges are trying to get God out of schools and this country. We better pray for HIs mercy that He doesn’t leave us.

By Rick

January 14, 2005 09:12 AM | Link to this

Thank-you Judge! I love Cobb County, but what a joke to be humiliated across the US about this…once again. Saturday Night Live even reamed us (and Cathy Cox) on national TV last year. Separaration of Church & State…bottom line, no matter what your beliefs. GA has come a long way, but I guess we’re not quite there yet. Also, thanks to the parents here in Cobb county who stepped-up to fight this issue. BTW, I definitely believe in God, but that lame sticker had to go. Parents should firm-up their beliefs at home, not ask for a stupid sticker on the inside of a science book.

By Louis

January 14, 2005 09:12 AM | Link to this

Steve Like so many, they forget the Pre-Able which is part of the Constitution: The Constitution of the United States of America We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America. To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this Constitution in the government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof. ..Section 10. [Limits on States] No state shall enter into any treaty, alliance, or confederation; grant letters of marque and reprisal; coin money; emit bills of credit; make anything but gold and silver coin a tender in payment of debts; pass any bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law impairing the obligation of contracts, or grant any title of nobility. No state shall, without the consent of the Congress, lay any imposts or duties on imports or exports, except what may be absolutely necessary for executing it’s inspection laws: and the net produce of all duties and imposts, laid by any state on imports or exports, shall be for the use of the treasury of the United States; and all such laws shall be subject to the revision and control of the Congress. No state shall, without the consent of Congress, lay any duty of tonnage, keep troops, or ships of war in time of peace, enter into any agreement or compact with another state, or with a foreign power, or engage in war, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent danger as will not admit of delay. These are the only limits on the States that are Constitutional, I did not see any thing stating â€?Seperation of Churches and Statesâ€?

By Tom

January 14, 2005 09:13 AM | Link to this

“This textbook contains material on gravity. Gravity is a theory, not a fact, regarding the forces of attraction between bodies of mass. This material should be approached with an open mind, studied carefully and critically considered……..oh, and keep yourself tied to the ground, too, just in case.”

It still boggles my mind that people are trying to equate a THEORY with a TALE. Don’t get me wrong……it’s a truly wonderful tale that has endured through the centuries and provided hope and faith to the masses…..but it’s still a tale.

By Victoria

January 14, 2005 09:14 AM | Link to this

WOW!!

I used to love the internet, but then along came viruses, spyware, and such nasties. But, after reading these posts, I’m so excited about it again. This topic brought out such passion, I suppose we’d have villagers with pitchforks and firebrands. With the internet we can have a reasoned discourse, an idea exchange and perchance, learn something new!

By Sheryl

January 14, 2005 09:14 AM | Link to this

In the begining GOD created heaven, earth, the sea and sky and all that is in them. HE created Man in His own image. One day, Every knee shall bow. FACT! HE has given us free will to choose what we will believe. As for me and my house we will serve the LORD and Believe Him. Each one must choose. HE wants none lost. Those who believe need only to lift Him up. HE will draw All Men. HE is more powerful than a sticker in a text book, the judge, and any other person or thing in this earth HE created.

By Richard Roma

January 14, 2005 09:16 AM | Link to this

I wonder how long it will be before a strict aetheist/scientist gets in a “sticky” situation and introduces a theory that some groups of people are more “evolved” than others?

By Louis

January 14, 2005 09:16 AM | Link to this

Article III Section 1. The judicial power of the United States, shall be vested in one Supreme Court, and in such inferior courts as the Congress may from time to time ordain and establish. The judges, both of the supreme and inferior courts, shall hold their offices during good behaviour, and shall, at stated times, receive for their services, a compensation, which shall not be diminished during their continuance in office. Section 2. The judicial power shall extend to all cases, in law and equity, arising under this Constitution, the laws of the United States, and treaties made, or which shall be made, under their authority;—to all cases affecting ambassadors, other public ministers and consuls;—to all cases of admiralty and maritime jurisdiction;—to controversies to which the United States shall be a party;—to controversies between two or more states;—between a state and citizens of another state;—between citizens of different states;—between citizens of the same state claiming lands under grants of different states, and between a state, or the citizens thereof, and foreign states, citizens or subjects. In all cases affecting ambassadors, other public ministers and consuls, and those in which a state shall be party, the Supreme Court shall have original jurisdiction. In all the other cases before mentioned, *the Supreme Court shall have appellate jurisdiction, both as to law and fact, with such exceptions, and under such regulations as the Congress shall make. * NOTE: THEY HAVE JURISDICTION OVER CONGRESSIONAL LAWS…NOT LAWS BY THE STATES THEMSELVES! The trial of all crimes, except in cases of impeachment, shall be by jury; and such trial shall be held in the state where the said crimes shall have been committed; but when not committed within any state, the trial shall be at such place or places as the Congress may by law have directed. Section 3. Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort. No person shall be convicted of treason unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in open court. The Congress shall have power to declare the punishment of treason, but no attainder of treason shall work corruption of blood, or forfeiture except during the life of the person attainted.

By Julie

January 14, 2005 09:17 AM | Link to this

I think home school is great, but I say we shouldn’t let the devil have our schools anymore. All who are believers in Christ. Let’s stand together and pray for God to take back our schools. Because it will be our nation next and we can’t leave it. Let’s get serious about this. Everyone pray and watch what God does!! Seek Him and His mercy for our schools.

By Richard

January 14, 2005 09:20 AM | Link to this

There is absolutely nothing wrong with putting a disclaimer in a book that let’s students know it is a theory. Just because it may be widely accepted, it is still a theory. Creationism is widely accepted, too. But that is not being taught.

My point is this, we continue to teach something as fact when we do not know. Why is it so difficult to say that we do not know? If we are as evolved and above ignorance as stated in other’s messages, why can we not admit we do not know? Why does our pride still stand in the way of truth?

I, for one, do not like having a judge from another state dictate what we can teach and how we can teach it.

And, for the record, evolution does not necessarily mean we came from a monkey, it means we came from a single cell, a molecule like an amoebea, and that evolved into a tadpole, into fish, into water and land animals, into land animals, into apes, into humans, etc… That is what the “Theory of Evolution” states.

Of course we have evolved, we have found remains of the Cro-Magnum man and everything to support that. We have evolved as a species.

It seems that the people here that support evolution are not quite aware what it means. Creationism means we were created by God, as man and woman. And we have evolved in that species. Evolution says we were evolved from an amoebic type being into humans.

And, yes, Christianity should be taught in home and church. However, Christians should be able to pray at school, just as any other religion would be allowed to. Christianity is constantly singled out and prejudiced against.

We even want to take “under God” out of the pledge of allegiance because kids might hear it. Let me tell you, a lot of kids now a days NEED to hear it. I know I did.

But, I love you all and wish you the best, God Bless!!!!

By mit

January 14, 2005 09:21 AM | Link to this

David New, if you have disproved evolution I would like to see the papers. Did you publish in a respected scientific journal? The theory of evolution has been studied by scientist since Darwin first published his findings and all the evidence has backed up his claim. I have not read a single paper that disproved it.
You can not teach creationism in a science class because it is based on faith and opinion, NOT facts. You will have to teach a religions class instead. Which they do in some schools and universities. My only problem with the religious point of view is that its not scientific; science answers all the questions that religion places on God, like earthquakes and tornados. Back when the bible was written there was no explaination of earthquakes so they were God’s doing, but now that we know how they occur and can even predict them to some measure, they are not God’s doing. Science gives us logical answers as to what is happening where as religion does not. If you do not believe evolution takes place, then explain to me why bacteria that were susceptible to antibiotics yesteryear are now resistance to those same antibiotics. they had to evolve in order to survive. Why does an AIDS patient have to take dozens and dozens of pills? Because the virus changes its DNA in order to get around the medicine. Thats evolution. We did NOT come from monkeys. They are just in the family tree which is compiled on Millions of years. if you go back far enough on that tree then you will see how we (homo sapiens) are related to every mammal (not just the apes) on this planet. If you go back even further we are related to single-celled organisms that first populated this planet. I am NOT made out of dirt and my wife is NOT made out of a rib, sorry.

By Hester L. Furey

January 14, 2005 09:21 AM | Link to this

Obviously people can believe whatever they want to — but I am glad that the line is being drawn at allowing religion to trump science in the public schools.

By Julie

January 14, 2005 09:21 AM | Link to this

Sheryl,yes and amen!

By Michel

January 14, 2005 09:22 AM | Link to this

The ruling was just and proper. I am all for the teaching of many angles on how life began on this planet, however the thought of creationism being one of the theories is like teaching that magic is real. If we wish to get into the facts of evolution vs creationism, I think we need to delve into the backround of both sources. Science has proven many many things, the bible has proven very little while having many items in it completely contradicting itself as well as others which are completely impossible.
Teaching the creation fantasy should be in our science books along with our teachings about zombies, fairies, and bigfoot. If Christian parents want thier children to learn and believe the religious teachings, then a public school is not the proper place for these students.

By Michael

January 14, 2005 09:24 AM | Link to this

Steve, the word secular is not in the constitution. What a strange ommission for those religious found fathers. Could it be they forgot. The fact is this is a Christian country, accept it!

By mit

January 14, 2005 09:25 AM | Link to this

Richard Roma, already happened. Mitochondrial DNA has shown that Africans and their descendents are more diverse than anyone else.

By Anne

January 14, 2005 09:25 AM | Link to this

Again, folks. Read Evidence that Demands a Verdict and decide for yourself.

By Marque

January 14, 2005 09:26 AM | Link to this

Part I. I have sat here and read comments from both sides. The negative tone directed towards Christians is astounding (but not surprising). Keep in mind that not only Christians, but Jews and I think Muslims believe in creationism. Regardless fo what anyone says, someone’s beliefs are being impossed on others. The only way to remedy this is to present both sides in a non-endorsing manner.

Here is a “Theory” that I have and there is real evidence to support this: The more we try to push God into remote corners called homes and churches, the more we allow evil to permeate our society. Also, Churches are not buildings. The church is the gathering of believers so therefore you can not seperate church and state because in each state building there is a gathering of believers.

On the subject of the seperation of Church and State. This too was an activist judge misinterpreting the constitution. The government can not FORCE religion on people, which had/was happening in Europe during the crusade and the inquisition. This is not the same as prohibiting Government from supporting religion. The establishment clause was to protect religion from the goverment, not government from religion.

Some of you have made the comments that you dont want your tax dollars going toward teaching religion. Well how is it fair to ask the other side, who pay taxes also, to give their tax dollars to teach their kids a “Theory” that they don’t think is right. When you give voice only to one side you are automaically supressing others. the judge by his very ruling just change which group of people he wants to supress.

By Skip

January 14, 2005 09:29 AM | Link to this

Hooray for wisdom and common sense! Religion ought to be taught as part of cultural studies in history and social studies classes where all religions can be explored. One particular religious view has no place in a science curriculum, especially in the 21st century.

By Elliott

January 14, 2005 09:29 AM | Link to this

I guess the first place to start is that people who claim more separation of church and state just don’t know the history of our country or why this is an issue. It’s sad they can only spout rhetoric with no basis. One can deny till they are blue in the face but this country was founded on christian principles. Evolution is a theory and making it seem as truth is the government trying to force humanist religion on us. I wish people really would do research on the founding of our country. Elliott

By Luke

January 14, 2005 09:31 AM | Link to this

I’m so tired of this debate, allow to usher it’s demise now.

Those who do not support the theory of evolution are so abysmally ignorant one wonders how life has not weeded you out, the vestigial organs that you are.

“Evolution is a theory.” This statement is TRUE. “Evolution has never been proven.” FALSE. Here’s why:

One must make a distinction between the nature of observable data and the corresponding theories we offer to account for the phenomena. For example, gravity is a fact (a fact which no one disputes). E.g, if you drop an apple, it falls to the earth. That’s the FACT of gravity. To account for this, the THEORY of gravity was proposed. That it is now a “law” testifies to the theory’s strength, but in truth it is simply still a theory.

Evolution works precisely the same way. Beginning with Darwin, scientists have observed the genetic alteration (genotypes and phenotypes) in species, etc. That’s the FACT of evolution. To account for this phenomena, the THEORY of evolution was proposed.

Is the theory perfect? No. But it’s very good and monumentally better than anything else that exists.

And please, stop running your mouths with the nonsense that intelligent design is a theory. A theory, for you non-readers who profess to knowledge you clearly do not have, is testable (among other things). A theory must be open to reasonable sorts of tests, which effectively eliminates intelligent design or any other crank notion masquerading as science.

You are free to teach your children this refuse otherwise known as creationism. You are free to argue for it. But you are not free from counter-argument and not permitted to insert religion into places it clearly has no business existing.

I find it highly ironic that creationists are concerned with activist judges circumventing norms of proper adjudication, yet since they have been obliterated by knowledge developed over the last 500 years thereby devastatingly losing the debate as far as science is concerned, they seek to perniciously sneek their agendas into our lives any way they can.

You are hypocrites. Please go home and read a few books before you show your face in public again. You will hopefully then be tolerable.

By Randy

January 14, 2005 09:32 AM | Link to this

ALL US CHRISTIANS WISH WE COULD SAY SOMETHING THAT WOULD MAKE A DIFFERENCE IN SOMEONE’S LIFE AND THAT THEY WOULD KNOW JESUS FROM THAT. IT BREAKS OUR HEARTS TO SEE THESE PEOPLE WHO DON’T KNOW AND THAT DON’T KNOW THAT THEY DON’T KNOW.

By Becki

January 14, 2005 09:34 AM | Link to this

Fact: Evolution IS just a theory, not a fact. Even scientists say so. And it’s disrespectful to any and all religions and persons believing in something else to say otherwise. Not to mention, I’ve never seen the Big Bang happen. Someone told me about it, and it didn’t seem so credible to me. Seems like you’d have to believe that on, oh I don’t know, FAITH!

By ANGELA GILLIAM

January 14, 2005 09:37 AM | Link to this

I don’t see what the big deal is about the labels. It has nothing to do with religion. It’s just letting the children know that “evolution” is only a theory and that it is not a proven fact.

By Tom Short

January 14, 2005 09:37 AM | Link to this

WWJD for a Kondike bar?

By Peggy

January 14, 2005 09:41 AM | Link to this

TOTAL DISCRIMINATION! How can you teach evolution, as a theory, in the classroom without teaching creationism, at least as a theory also. The history in the Bible speaks for itself. Why is this HISTORICAL book not taught just as the evoluation theory is? My answer to that question is this: Ignorance. It is quite apparent that people who are for the evolution theory have never read the Bible as a historical book.

By Tom

January 14, 2005 09:42 AM | Link to this

I haven’t yet read any other comments, but it steams me that any questioning of evolution is deemed a “religious endorsement.” Not only are there several important scientists out there who question the orthodoxy of evolution who are not part of a religious movement, there are those within the “faithful” of the evolution camp who carry separate opinions and theories. If evolution is indeed a fact as the ACLU and plaintiffs argue, then why is there such disagreement within the ranks of those who believe it as such? The bottom line: The ACLU takes whatever chance it gets to take a shot at Christians.

By Becki

January 14, 2005 09:44 AM | Link to this

You have all these folks jumping all over Christianity, but other religions believe that a higher being created this world. Why not mention them, too? It’s pure discrimination to not allow for other theories to be presented. If you’re going to present evolution, you have to present the other possibilities.

By Tom

January 14, 2005 09:46 AM | Link to this

Peggy, the reason evolution is taught is because it IS a theory….as are many other scientific teachings. he reason creationism is not taught is because it does not have the substantiation of findings to SUPPORT it as a theory. That’s whay it is NOT a THEORY. Again, people…..please learn (1) the difference between a theory and a hypothesis, and (2) teh difference between a theory and a STORY.

By Lew

January 14, 2005 09:48 AM | Link to this

It is simply amazing how many ignorant and intolerant people are out there.

What is so threatening about a sticker which says This textbook contains material on evolution. Evolution is a theory, not a fact, regarding the origin of living things. This material should be approached with an open mind, studied carefully and critically considered

Any halfway educated person ought to applaude something which spells out the truth — that there is a difference between a fact and a theory, and Evolution falls in the latter case.

Oh, sorry I forgot… tolerance these days is only a one-way street where I have to tolerate everyone else’s views but they don’t have to tolerate mine.

By Marci

January 14, 2005 09:48 AM | Link to this

It seems that the parents in Cobb county have a problem teaching their beliefs in their homes and need the county to back up their teachings! Why stop at the biblical story of Creation?? Do they teach their children about other stories of creation such as the Native American, Hindu, Ancient Greece, etc.?? Morals and religion should be taught in religious settings and in the home. Don’t complain if you can’t do your job as a parent!

By Brian Curtis

January 14, 2005 09:49 AM | Link to this

We certainly should permit discussion of various religious and philosohpical views on the origin of the world… in a religion or culture class.

But we’re talking about a SCIENCE class. And science has a single, very clear and well-proven explanation of how life evolved. Like all science, it has nothing to do with religion. Calling religious beliefs “other possibilities” is mingling fact with opinion.

By Luke

January 14, 2005 09:51 AM | Link to this

Becki,

You either have no shame or love to be embarassed in various public forums.

While it is true that no one has witnessed the Big Bang, you once again failed to understand basic scientific understanding, i.e. my previous point. My guess is you have the reading comprehension skills of a donkey.

Let’s go through this again, shall we?

Data was observed, e.g. Hubble and the Red Shift, galaxies moving away from each other, and most recently sound waves were detected that had a central point. This is the FACTS I was referring to earlier. The THEORY to account for this is the Big Bang.

Is the Big Bang theory perfect? No. But its very good and monumentally better than anything else that exists.

Faith and science are mutually exclusive. Faith is the belief in X without evidence for X. The theory regarding the origin of the universe is not perfect or complete, but unlike faith, incorporates evidence.

Once again, I encourage you all to read books before you open your mouths. You are in desperate need of basic cultural literacy.

Lastly, I do not lose any sleep at night over your or any other evangelicals’ alleged offense at tart language adopted by people like me. If you wish for me to show your viewpoints some respect, perhaps you should first establish reasons why I must accord them said respect. You have so far failed to do so.

By Darrell

January 14, 2005 09:54 AM | Link to this

Cobb County has always been about religion over anything else. Take their “Family Values” for instance. The hatred of gays disguised with a wholesome name. Ever seen “hatred is not a family value” bumper sticker? Now you know what it’s referring to. I am a native of Georgia and have lived in Cobb County for 23 years. It is the centreal hub in Georgia for the self righteous militant Christians who believe their religion is fact above everything else. It’s time they get a wake up call, and this is a good start.

By Marque

January 14, 2005 09:54 AM | Link to this

PartII. To date no one has been able to conclusively say that evolution is an absolute fact. If they find new information, then their THEORY is updated to account for the new information which says that their original fact was not fact to begin with. I have listened to scientists explain String theory, evoloution, etc. Scientists are not in agreement within their own community. You will get different answers depending on which theories the scientist subscribes to. So what they do is take the common aspects of those theories and present that as a “teachable” subject matter.

Here is a question I have. Are we still evolving? If so, what evidence is there to support that? I’m sincere in wanting to know and investigate because to date I have not heard or read anything that satisfactorily answers those questions. Until I do, I think that if evolution and creationism need to be presented side by side as opposing THEORIES. Why are all the “anti-religious” zealots afraid of both being taught as opposing theories?

By Marc

January 14, 2005 09:55 AM | Link to this

As an educator and an administrator in the public school arena I am dismayed at the ruling of the court. It is a well known FACT that the theory of evolution has two many holes to be considered as fact. It takes more faith to believe in evolution than in God. What we have here is another attack on Christianity from the court system. I wonder also when was the last time anyone in the legal system read the constitution. I challenge anyone to read it for themselves and see that it never mentions the “separation of church and state.”

By Marc

January 14, 2005 09:55 AM | Link to this

As an educator and an administrator in the public school arena I am dismayed at the ruling of the court. It is a well known FACT that the theory of evolution has two many holes to be considered as fact. It takes more faith to believe in evolution than in God. What we have here is another attack on Christianity from the court system. I wonder also when was the last time anyone in the legal system read the constitution. I challenge anyone to read it for themselves and see that it never mentions the words “separation of church and state.”

By Randy

January 14, 2005 09:56 AM | Link to this

With macro-evolution being such an unproven thoery, why teach anything? Why not just say the truth, we don’t know! Many scientists don’t even believe in macro-evolution, the rest either do because that’s what they want to believe or their job and peer-pressure require it.

By DON GRIFFIN

January 14, 2005 09:56 AM | Link to this

Where then did it all begin? If zero times a billion is zero, how did we get to where we are now, in a universe of perfect order and imperfect people. It takes more faith to believe the theory of evolution than the truth that we everything, including ourselves, was created from God. Scientist will never be able to create something from nothing. If you believe it can be done, try it!

By Brandy

January 14, 2005 09:56 AM | Link to this

I heard this morning that the school system is considering challenging the ruling. What gives??? Just let it go people, you are trying to push religion into the school and it doesn’t belong in science without a second opinion. I think everybody should write the school system to let them know how they feel. Honestly I don’t feel you should isolate your children from information, let them decide.

By Eric Shelander

January 14, 2005 09:56 AM | Link to this

As a graduate of the Cobb County School System in 1969, I guess you could say I was old school. Also, I am an ordained mininster. That being said, two things come to the forefront. One the judge misses the whole point. Evolution is just a theory, and that is all the stickers point out. Funny how even the judges in this country desire to avoid the TRUTH! Secondly, even Cynthia Tucker a columnist in your paper tried to foist off the idea that Evolution was a natural law comparing its truth to the Law of Gravity. Come now, if you want to trash creationism, trash it, that is your choice, but at least give the school students the truth that evolution is a THEORY NOT A NATURAL LAW!

By Becki

January 14, 2005 09:57 AM | Link to this

Creationism is another possibility. If evolution is, then Creationism most certainly is a possibility. People believe scientific theories on faith, as they have not seen it for their own eyes, but have been taught to believe it, so why is any other faith taboo? If you can’t teach Creationism in a science class as a possible explanation for how humans came to be, then you cannot teach evolution as a possible explanation, either. Believing evolution is the end-all be-all explanation for the human race is the only evidence I’ve seen of mingling fact with opinion!

By Ryan

January 14, 2005 09:58 AM | Link to this

Parents who do not believe in Evolution and do not want their children taught in science class what the scientific community believes to be the origin of life should send their children to private Christian schools so they may be taught Christian beliefs.

By Marge

January 14, 2005 09:58 AM | Link to this

I was raised in a school system that taught Evolution was the only viable answer to the origin of man. I have since learned that there are other just as valid theories. I am 38 years old and feel ripped off that I was taught to believe there is only one idea behind it.

By Michel

January 14, 2005 10:00 AM | Link to this

Peggy,

People don’t read the bible for accurate historical accuracies for the following reasons (and way more):

The third year of the reign of Jehoiakim would be 606 BCE, at which time Nebuchadnezzar was not yet king of Babylon. It was 597 BCE that Nebuchadnezzar invaded Jerusalem for the first time (without actually destroying it). By that time Jehohiakim was dead and his son, Jehoiachin, was ruling. (see Nebuchadrezzar II, Encyclopedia Britannica) 1:1

God has “the strength of a unicorn.” Oh heck, I bet he’s even stronger than a unicorn. 23:22, 24:8

Whether by twos or by sevens, Noah takes male and female representatives from each species of “every thing that creepeth upon the earth.” 7:8

All of the animals boarded the ark “in the selfsame day.” 7:13-14

The flood covered the highest mountain tops (Mount Everest?) with fifteen cubits to spare. 7:20

When the animals left the ark, what would they have eaten? There would have been no plants after the ground had been submerged for nearly a year. What would the carnivores have eaten? Whatever prey they ate would have gone extinct. And how did the New World primates or the Australian marsupials find there way back after the flood subsided? 8:19

How many soldiers did Israel have? This verse says that Judah and Israel had a total of 1,300,000 fighting men (1 Chr.21:5 says 1,570,000) in this battle. Of course, this is a ridiculously high number for a battle between two tribal armies in 1000 BCE. (The United States had about 1.37 million active duty soldiers in 2001.) 24:9

Since the molten sea was round with a diameter of ten cubits and a circumference of thirty cubits, we know that the biblical value of p is 3. (The actual value is approximately 3.14159.) 4:2

The earth shakes whenever God really gets mad. 18:7

By Luke

January 14, 2005 10:03 AM | Link to this

Becki,

Either you have no shame or you have some masochistic need to be embarassed in various public forums.

Or perhaps you have the reading skills of a donkey. You did not understand a thing I have said.

Let’s go through this again, shall we?

While it is true no one “observed the Big Bang,” that is irrelavent. DATA, or FACTS, were observed such as Hubble’s recognition of the Red Shift (something I am sure you’ve never heard of), galaxies moving away from each other at accelerated paces and most recently sound waves that correspond to those movements. Those are the FACTS I was referring to earlier. The THEORY to account for those FACTS is the Big Bang theory.

Is the Big Bang theory perfect? No. But it’s very good and monumentally better than anything else that currently exists.

And no, it doesn’t take “faith” to believe in anything scientific. It’s takes valid inferences and deductions. Faith is the belief in X with no evidence for X. The facts aforementioned speak to the origin of the universe and our theories, based on evidence, attempt to account for them. To say it takes any faith to believe in anything scientific is an appalling misunderstanding of reality.

Lastly, I do not lose any sleep at night over your or any other evangelicals’ alleged offense at tart language adopted by people like me. If you wish for me to show your viewpoints some respect, perhaps you should first establish reasons why I must accord them said respect. You have so far failed to do so.

By John

January 14, 2005 10:04 AM | Link to this

I’m still rubbing my head and trying to understand how the religious right can’t seem to understand any of this. Yes, evolution is a thoery, based in science. Creationism is also a theory based solely on faith with absolutely no corroborating evidence. Why should students be taught something that has yet to have any scientific basis and is only a belief? If this is so important to the religious right, then why not have a sticker that states ALL theories of our origins are strictly theory.

By Coree

January 14, 2005 10:04 AM | Link to this

Ok, so my opinion is this. If I am not mistaken when I was in school it was always taught to me that Evolution was a theory and it was never questioned. However, the last time I checked it was a violation of our Constituation to mix Church and School. Unfortunately in this day and age you just can’t do that because we have so many different religions and different cultures living in the US and even right here in Georgia. To me what most of the people are saying just go to show how biggeted you people really are. You can criticize me are you want for saying, but guess what the truth hurts and if you can’t handle the truth then I suggest you keep your mouth shut and open your eyes.

I always understood that Evolution was a Theory, but here is a thought for you, if you God Fearing Christians really want this in School Text Books then I think it should also be allowed to put a little sticker in the Bible that States “Creationism is a Theory and Not a Fact.” However, that would not happen and why do you ask, because that would just create to much controversy over this. What a thought. Or maybe, just maybe it would put a second idea in someones head.

Please by all means I welcome the comments because quite frankly I am sick and tired of this entire Creationism vs. Evolution crap. There are more important things going on in this world right now and even right here in the US that are more important than this crap. I mean we were all taught the same things in School, especially in science and you know what I don’t go to church now but I did when I was a child and you know the one thing that stands out in my mind. “Do unto others as you would have done unto you.” You know Treat others as you want to be treated. Whatever happened to Love thy Neighbor? Answer these questions.

By David P.

January 14, 2005 10:05 AM | Link to this

Lois—What’s wrong with athiesm? (correct spelling Atheism)

By Jon

January 14, 2005 10:06 AM | Link to this

But Brian… you are suggesting that by it being a “science”, evolution is, (your words)…”a well proven explanation”… which evolution IS NOT. If you stop and learn the facts.. it’s just not possible. We couldn’t have come from ooze..

By Adam

January 14, 2005 10:06 AM | Link to this

I am 5’10” with brown eyes. My partner Steve and I have an evolved relationship.

By John

January 14, 2005 10:06 AM | Link to this

The irony is that Cobb County is also against the evolution of the county culture and has generally been frozen since 1865. It is the inability of an under-educated population to understand the difference between a scientific theory and a religious hypothesis. Is it any wonder that Georgia is next-to-last in SAT scores?

By Jeanie

January 14, 2005 10:07 AM | Link to this

This is why I cannot send my child to public schools. You teach them creationism all their life, then you send them to public school and they tell them what they have been taught at home by their parents and church is not the “accepted” theory. This is confusing to them as to what to believe in other things as well. The stickers did no harm. They should stay. I was NOT evolved from a monkey, no way, no how. Neither were YOU!

By Becki

January 14, 2005 10:07 AM | Link to this

Believing in evolution or the other scientific theories that cannot be proven for one’s self causes one to believe such things on faith in those who have come up with such theories.

By Maria

January 14, 2005 10:07 AM | Link to this

I think the judge was wrong with the ruling of this case. Evolution is a theory and has not been found to be a fact, but the theory of evolution. Why is it that a child can go to school and be taught that we came from monkeys, but the child cannot be taught that GOD created this beautiful world we are in. Why not teach both versions and allow the students to debate the issues. Do you that agree with the evolution theory not think that you are imposing your views on others? Society has become a society of not speaking out and accepting things that are unacceptable. The foundation of this country whether you like it or not was built on religion. Religion used to be taught in schools, which now we have guns, drugs, crime, Ganges in schools and many other acts around us. No one speaks out; we just accept things as they are. At 35 years of age I look at society and we have become a society that has gotten to comfortable that is why you have citizens such as myself that is upset at the sticker being taking off the textbooks. What will a sticker do it will allow the mind to question what other possibilities are out their, if it cannot be printed in the text book at least it would of been seen on the cover.

Note: Yes, educated people do value religious beliefs.

By Ryan

January 14, 2005 10:10 AM | Link to this

So, is Creationism a FACT, not a theory? Theories belong in philosophy class. Since the scientific community supports Evolution, doesn’t it stand to reason that in science class children are taught science? Or would you rather send your children out into the world (and surprise surprise, there is one outside Cobb County) with confusing rhetoric instead of an understanding of scientific concepts? Is it any wonder that this nation is now lagging behind other nations in regards to Nobel prizes in science and other technical, advanced studies? Can anyone even imagine a Nobel Prize winner in Science being from Georgia, USA? The resounding NO! to this answer is sad; sad for Georgia residents and sad for the children in this state.

By Adam

January 14, 2005 10:12 AM | Link to this

If Evolution does not exist, Noah must have had one big arc. If he only took two of each species, they must have all been fertile and heterosexual for that matter.

By Matthew

January 14, 2005 10:14 AM | Link to this

The problem was not really about the separation of church and state. The problem was a lack of understanding about what the word “theory” means. A scientific theory, by definition, has overwhelming, convincing evidence. Same for gravitational theory, or the theory of relativity. The point is that EVERYTHING in a biology textbook is, at BEST, a theory. There are no “facts” that are more well-founded than evolution. The stickers convey a deep-rooted misunderstanding of science and the scientific method as it applies to everything, not just evolution. If they are going to keep their stickers, they need to make them all-inclusive of everything in the book.

By Annette

January 14, 2005 10:14 AM | Link to this

Our CREATOR HIMSELF will definitely be THE FINAL JUDGE concerning all of these matters and creatures that denies HIS EXISTENCE AND ABSOLUTE AUTHORITY OVER ALL THAT EXISTS.

By Sandy

January 14, 2005 10:14 AM | Link to this

I do not understand how anyone can interpret this sticker as it is supporting religious beliefs. The sticker only comments that evolution is a theory and not a fact. It never says what the other possibilities are. The fact of the matter is that there may be an explanation that is neither creationism or evolution and encouraging our children to keep an open mind just may one day inspire one of them find the facts that prove the truth whatever it may be.

By mit

January 14, 2005 10:15 AM | Link to this

why do some keep saying evolution is a theory, not a fact. The FACT is a theory is a collection of FACTS. A HYPOTHESIS is the initial IDEA. Evolution is NOT a HYPOTHESIS because it has FACTS to back it up. Therefore, it becomes the THEORY of evolution. It is still a theory and not a law because all the evidence is not in. To put a disclaimer that reads ‘Evolution is a theory, not fact’ in a science textbook is idiotic from a scientist’s point of view, because as stated above, a theory is a collection of facts. therefore, the disclaimer makes no sense. The ONLY thing in science that is not fact is the initial HYPOTHESIS which evolution has already passed because we have FACTS that say ‘yes, this hypothesis holds true’. So to say you have a theory about something is WRONG. You hypothesize (think) something, then you have to prove that what you initailly thought; is right based on facts. then your hypothesis is either right or wrong. IF the facts back up your hypothesis then you have a theory, if the facts dispute your hypothesis, then you have nothing.

By Becki

January 14, 2005 10:16 AM | Link to this

Luke, other than just now when I noticed my own name, I haven’t read anything you’ve written. So to believe that you are so important to anyone (especially me), makes you very mistaken, about many things. Go out in the Hubble yourself, see these things for yourself, and THEN AND ONLY THEN can you believe them for yourself. Until then, you are putting your faith in faulty “science.”

By Dave

January 14, 2005 10:17 AM | Link to this

was just thumbing through these comments now, and some of the early ones struck me as amusing.

To all those who want to claim that creationism should be taught because evolution is a flawed theory, i submit to you that with research, it can be effectively demonstrated that any holes are miniscule and are merely the result of am as-yet-incompletely-discovered arnthropological record. Whereas creationism has holes in it which are literally the size of a dinosaur.

And regarding eyeballs: Darwin may have said that the in his opinion, the human eyeball was too complex to have evolved naturally, but lets face it, Darwin was the father of the theory of evolution, not the end of the research. Its laso worth noting that if God created the human eyeball, he seems to have spent a lot more time working on those of cats or falcons. And i truly hope none of you can try to make such a claim if you happen to be reading while wearing glasses or contacts! :)

By Luke

January 14, 2005 10:17 AM | Link to this

Judging by many of the comments, I will safely assume that it is a very good thing the stickers were removed.

It is readily apparent to those whose IQ is not tantamount to their age that the Cobb County school system (and probably Georgia-wide) has produced an army of morons. Worse, these morons are psychotically irrantional.

I can longer bear to witness this buffoonery. My only hope is that those of you who ascribe to creationism either elect to never breed or committ some sort of Jonestown style event at your next get together.

Best wishes.

By Ellen

January 14, 2005 10:20 AM | Link to this

Nowhere in the evolutionary “theory” does it say that humans are related to monkeys; only that we probably had a common ancestor. You don’t understand evolution - otherwise you wouldn’t believe that monkeys, apes, or any other of these primates are our direct relatives. Also, eventually, children have to learn that (1) the stork didn’t deliver them, (1) there is no Santa Claus, (2) and the world and its people were not created in 7 days. It’s irresponsible parenting to allow these myths, especially the third one, to persist for any length of time. If you believe in a divine creator, how much more miraculous and impressive the FACT is, I would think, that “HE” did it all in this most elaborate, ingenious way. Not like a magician waving his wand, on the other hand, as many would like to believe.

By James

January 14, 2005 10:24 AM | Link to this

A theory a synthesis of information believed by some questioned by others.

Evolution is a theory, believed without question by many but unproven beyond a reasonable doubt to the remainder.

Creation is a theory, believed without question by many, but unproven beyond a reasonable doubt to the remainder.

Mark them both theories and let people decide on their own. It is not about religion either Christian or the religion of humanism and science… it is about teaching people to be critical thinkers. Stifling thought and debate is precisely why we have lost our edge in the world as a nation of thinkers.

By Karl

January 14, 2005 10:24 AM | Link to this

I think the issue here is that science is trying to prove that God exists based on a test, based in Chemistry, based in Geology, based in Physics…and that cannot be done…since science stablishes theories and when confirmed they turned them into laws, they expect to do the same with God… They want to know His molecular structure, His nuclear/atomic/or who knows which power source, His chemistry compsition… For those who don’t believe…the problem is that they really do…but cannot accept it and are trying to look for others to support them and think that God is an invention…something in our minds… I invite them all to try the Lord…if you are not conviced, He will return all your sins back… God bless you all…and please I suggest all not to take this personal…this are all opinions and we have to respect every opinion regarless we agree or not with it… Love to all…

By christy

January 14, 2005 10:24 AM | Link to this

To those of you who found it necessary to personally email me to say I think Creationism should be taught INSTEAD of evolution…

I didn’t say there was anything wrong with the theory of evolution, I said that all theories should be taught equally and from a third-party view (see my first post please). Neither Creationism or evolution have been proven as FACT, even though scientists have tried to do both. No child with a religious belief regarding how the earth was created, be it Christian or otherwise, should be told that evolution is a FACT and what they have learned at home and at their church/synagogue/temple/other place of worship is wrong. My personal belief is that there is a God who created this earth, and he sent his son to die for my sins so that I might have everlasting life. I regard evolution as God’s means to an end—the HOW rather than the WHO—and I plan to raise my son with this belief. How arrogant of some scientists to believe that God couldn’t put into place the wonderful scientific facts that support evolution just because mere mortals discovered how He did it. Instead, they should be glad God saw fit to put the knowledge of these discoveries in their hearts and minds—one day we may all find out that these “discoveries” were another way for God to prove His miraculous power, even though man saw fit to worship themselves for their gift of knowledge rather than worshiping the Lord for making it all happen.

One more thing for the Jews who think leaving the stickers in was a “Christian” thing to do—Jesus was a Jew, and based on Jewish teachings he believed God created the earth…don’t you abide by the same Jewish teachings that Jesus did??

By Michael

January 14, 2005 10:27 AM | Link to this

The truth is that Evolution is a Scientific Theory. Scientific Theories can not be proven, they can only be disproven when new facts suggest a better theory. And since there are absolutely no facts that support any religion’s creation stories, in a classroom where science is taught, Evolution is the only way to go. If Cobb County wants to offer classes on theology, they can teach creationism or intelligent design all they want.

If we were to allow creationist theories to be taught in school, then all creationist theories must be taught. Since this is impossible, the only other option is to teach no religion is school.

It is a sad fact that for two thousand years, Christians have believed that they are the only religion in the world, and the only correct one at that. And if you had the audacity to disagree with them, they would kill you or torture you. Look up the wonderful things Christians did during the Crusades and the Inquisition. And make no mistake, all this was done for the glory of their God. Today is a little different. Christians are a little more tolerant. They just threaten you with a lifetime in Hell if you happen to disagree with them. But I digress.

This great country allows us to practice whatever religion we want. The Separation of Church and State simply means that no matter what god he majority believes in, I can believe in whatever god I want without fear of reprisal from the government. (unless you are a Branch Davidian). If the shoe were on the other foot, then maybe Christians would understand that this ruling is actually a good thing for them, and us all.

By Coree

January 14, 2005 10:28 AM | Link to this

If I am not mistaken and I am pretty sure I am right, the Earth is a lot older than the Bible. Also, if I am not mistaken the Bible states “And God Created Man,” what it does not state is “And God Created Dinosaurs.” Dinosaurs roamed this Planet Far longer than Man, so someone in their Bible thumping Creationism Theory explain this to me.

By makito

January 14, 2005 10:29 AM | Link to this

I think the continued use of this textbook insert notice should be allowed. That way, when kids grow up and learn what self-righteous fools the Board of Education blowhards are, they will develop a healthy disrespect for all government “truths.” Ninety-five percent of these kids don’t need to know the truth anyway. Ninety-nine percent of government communication is partly or totally based on self serving lies. Send your kid to lose his life in Iraq to save us from imaginary weapons of mass destruction. All he needs to know is which end of the rifle the bullet comes out. I hope the Board of Education appeals this ruling so that more money can be paid to the lawyers and not wasted on educating the President’s cannon fodder.

By Adam

January 14, 2005 10:32 AM | Link to this

Was christy out partying with Prince Harry recently? If so, please tell Hunky Harry that I think he is cute when you go with him to visit Auschwitz.

By Sandy

January 14, 2005 10:35 AM | Link to this

Coree - You say when you were in school you were taught that evolution is theory. Well that is the whole point of this sticker. This book omits the fact that evolution is a theory and not a fact. They only want to be sure that it is continued to be taught as theory and not fact. I was taught that, you were taught that and I want my children taught that until facts prove it.(or something else) Everyone seems to be losing sight of the original issue and are debating evolution vs creationism. PLEASE lets go back to the original issue at hand - teach evolution as the theory that it is!

By christy

January 14, 2005 10:37 AM | Link to this

Afraid to answer the question Adam? I couldn’t be a Christian without respecting Jews, considering my Messiah is JEWISH.

By Dana

January 14, 2005 10:38 AM | Link to this

I have three high school students in Cobb County and asked them about the stickers. They said “we don’t care what the sticker says .We aren’t tested on it’s contents plus we don’t really see it under our book covers “

I have several friends who only call when Cobb County makes National news for being stupid and backwards. I hear from them often

By Garrett

January 14, 2005 10:38 AM | Link to this

DARWIN SAID THAT IF THE FOSSIL RECORDS DO NOT SHOW ANY TRANSITIONAL CREATURES THEN MY THEORY IS INCORRECT. THERE HAS NEVER BEEN ANY DISCOVERY OF ANY TRANSITIONAL CREATURES. SOME MICRO EVOLUTION, SPECIE SPECIFIC, AS IN BIRDS DEVELOPING WEBBED FEET BUT NO MONKEYS BECOMING MAN OR ANY OTHER CREATURE CHANGING FROM ONE TO ANOTHER. THE SUPPOSED MISSING LINKS THAT HAVE BEEN “DISCOVERED” ARE NO MORE THAN AN ARTIST RENDERING USING A FEW CHIPS OF BONE AND MAKING A MONKEY MAN OUT OF IT. EVERY LARGER BONE THAT HAS BEEN TOUTED AS A PREHISTORIC MAN HAS BEEN SHOWN TO BE FROM AN ANIMAL. THE THEORY OF EVOLUTION IS CRUMBLING EVERY YEAR. IF DARWIN WERE HERE TODAY HE WOULD BELIEVE IN INTELLIGENT DESIGN.

By Mark

January 14, 2005 10:39 AM | Link to this

*U.S. District Judge Clarence Cooper said the stickers, which call evolution “a theory, not a fact,” violate both the U.S. and Georgia constitutions. Affixed to textbooks in 2002, the disclaimers send “a message that the school board agrees with the beliefs of Christian fundamentalists and creationists,” Cooper said. The stickers might be small in size compared with the numerous pages of material on evolution in Cobb textbooks, he said, but “the message has an overwhelming presence.”…Cooper, appointed to the federal bench by President Bill Clinton in 1994, acknowledged there was no evidence before him that showed Cobb’s school board included the statement “evolution is a theory, not a fact” to promote or advance religion.

Nonetheless, he wrote, “By denigrating evolution, the school board appears to be endorsing the well-known prevailing alternative theory, creationism or variations thereof, even though the sticker does not specifically reference any alternative theories.”*

I disagree with the judges assertion that challenging the theory of evolution is tantamount to endorsing creationism and religious fundamentalism. The stickers as I read them, do not constitute an endorsement of a creationist viewpoint or any other viewpoint . To me they encourage critical thinking which should be utilized in all educational discourses, especially in science which thrives on intellectual challenges to previously held assertions. However, I do agree that the stickers were miss-worded. If I were going to write them I would have stated that Evolution is a scientific theory not a law, like the Law of Gravity, and as with any scientific theory further study and critical consideration should be exercised. In my own opinion I don’t believe that the world was created in 7 literal 24 hour days, but this ruling borders on and even flagrantly delves into holding evolution as a religious dogma. The judge basically created a commandment “Thou Shalt not Denigrate the Theory!” That to me goes totally against the idea of science, theories are not to be held in reverence they are useful tools to be revamped and overturned as new research and new technologies allow a greater understanding of the subject matter. This ruling plays like the battle between the Roman Catholics and the Protestants in Ireland not scientific discourse. What’s up with that?

By Michael

January 14, 2005 10:40 AM | Link to this

Coree, the Bible says ” God made beast of the eart after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind”. This would cover dinosaurs. Read the Book of Job, there is a scripture in there that describes animals like dinosaurs. But what do I know, I just a Bible thumping creationist.

By Brian Curtis

January 14, 2005 10:41 AM | Link to this

The problem with the sticker is that it promotes a common misunderstanding of the word “theory,” equating to an “unproven guess.”

Evolution—like all scientific theories—is far better established than a guess or story or opinion. Trying to set up creationism as an equally valid “theory” is a deliberate misuse of science classes as a forum to teach religion.

Creationism may be a belief, but it’s NOT a theory. It is based on no evidence, it makes no testable claims, and it can’t be refuted by new findings. Ergo, it doesn’t belong in a science class any more than the flat-earth story or the giant-turtles-on-elephants story.

Call it “truth” as much as you like, but religion has no more place in a science curriculum than it does in a math or history class. In all respects, creationism aka intelligent design utterly fails to qualify as a theory.

If there WERE any competing theories that had any substance or validity to them—in other words, any supporting evidence—I’d be strongly in favor of teaching them alongside natural selection. But there aren’t—there’s only people’s cherished religious beliefs. And that’s fine, but religion isn’t science.

By Katie

January 14, 2005 10:41 AM | Link to this

At some point, Christians are going to have to stop rolling over and allowing the ACLU to take away our constitutional rights. Christians, like all other groups, are entitled to our opinions under free speech. By continuing to discount any and all things even remotely religious in nature, the justice system is chipping away the right to religious freedom as well. The truly sad part is that words are being put into Christians mouths and thought are being put in to their heads. I am a christian and I believe that people have evolved over time. I honestly wish that people would stop covering their ears and screaming every time a Christian steps up to speak. Certianly there are fanatics out there, but you may genuinely be surprised to learn that all Christians are not extremists.

By Naomi

January 14, 2005 10:41 AM | Link to this

Evolution is a theory until it can be proven. The evidence for evolution *suggests but does not **prove.

By Ed C Smith

January 14, 2005 10:44 AM | Link to this

Since the disclaimer has been removed then the teaching of the Religion of Evolution should be removed from the school systems as well. Georgia has gone backwarks with this judge’s decision for anytime anything moves away from our Creator it has moved backwards.

By Brian Curtis

January 14, 2005 10:45 AM | Link to this

I keep hearing this “Christians’ rights are being trampled!” cry, and I have yet to see it happen.

Exactly what rights are you being robbed of? The right to teach your religious views to a captive audience of your neighbors’ kids? The right to have goverment support your particular faith and declare it “Truth” above all other viewpoints?

Or maybe it’s the right to seize every public space as your personal pulpit for advancing the glory of your god—and squashing all other opinions in the process?

It’s a science class, in a public school; you don’t get to preach your particular religion there. Get over it.

By Adam

January 14, 2005 10:46 AM | Link to this

Jesus was the first Christian; saying that he followed Jewish teachings is like saying Jeffrey Dahmer was a nice guy before he decided to start slicing and dicing.

By Kathy

January 14, 2005 10:48 AM | Link to this

PAUL, glad you have read the bible from “Cover to Cover.â€? It therein must endorse and give blessing to your sanctimonious hypocrisy, and further, your ‘omniscient’ judgment in proclaiming all others atheists. Have you ever stopped to think of the time(s) in which the numerous books of the Bible were written and the people to whom they were addressed. Yes, believe it or not, if you are as well read as you proclaim, the Bible is a book encompassing many books of which were not written at the same time. Think of the ‘educational level’ of the folks then; the basis had to be kept in simple terms they could understand. So, yes, while the Bible’s teachings hold relevant today as how one is to comport him/herself in life, God did give us free-will, of which, this gift of free-will gave mankind the ability to evolve, to mature and to grow from his meager beginnings pulling himself out of the dung heap. I am a Christian who believes in evolution but with the caveat, everything through God’s plans. Were any of us there to witness firsthand? No. I can only hope you did not miss the passage, “judge not lest ye be judged.â€? Therefore, I, as I’m sure others do, take offense to your Atheist label just because we do not believe exactly as YOU do.

By Mike K

January 14, 2005 10:48 AM | Link to this

My goodness people. If evolution is the explanation for the origin of life (which is the issue, isn’t it), then why would/should pro-evolutionists be so afraid that it be questioned? If it is in fact the truth, then it will be proven true. Evolution and natural selection have been proven, but only on a small scale (and on the large scale, depending on how you define a species), not on a large scale, marcroevolutionary level (ie, which proposes monkey to man, or man from slime). This large scale aspect is not scientifically accepted across the board, and is not even the best explanation for the origin of life based on the evidence (that would be the Intelligent Design agruement). But all of this taken, even if you disagree, why would you be so afraid that it be questioned? And furthermore, why would you blame it soley on Christians? (Because some of the biggest proponts of intelligent design are not Christians)

By Christie

January 14, 2005 10:48 AM | Link to this

I see no problem with the stickers in the scirnce textbooks as written. Evolution is a THEORY. Creationism is another THEORY. Encouraging students to think critically & form their own opinions regarding these & other theories is not bad science, but a good thing for the students involved.

By Reeves Cantwalk

January 14, 2005 10:49 AM | Link to this

You God lovers are so cute. God should do something special for you like give you cancer or let some small children get raped. Or maybe he could just kill a bunch his followers with a big wall of water. God is so great.

By Erin

January 14, 2005 10:51 AM | Link to this

The Bible says pi=3 (1 Kings 7:23). Why don’t we have stickers in math textbooks reminding everyone that 3.14159 is a modern interpretation of pi and students should remain open to other theories?

By Michel

January 14, 2005 10:52 AM | Link to this

Amazing that no one can grasp that it is the theory of evolution, not the evolutionist thoery…..there is a large gap between the two.

By Diane

January 14, 2005 10:55 AM | Link to this

Why are people so afraid of religion. IF you are religious you are discriminated against

By Jill

January 14, 2005 10:57 AM | Link to this

Why are the evolutionists so afraid of a sticker? If they are so right, what is the harm in a sticker saying that Evolution is a theory; that there are other theories. The evolutionists are scared. If they truly are correct, it shouldn’t matter if our textbooks say there are other theories. But for those of us who believe in another reason for the creation of the earth, let students know that there are other theories; let them make up their own minds. Evolutionists are just trying to force people to believe their views. Our constitution should protect those of us who have religious beliefs from being forced to believe an anti-religious theory.

By Antyler

January 14, 2005 10:57 AM | Link to this

After reading approximately 200 of the replies I’ve come to a rather shocking conclusion about many of the AJC bloggers here and that is that there are some general misconceptions not only about evolution but also concerning the nature of science as a whole.

First, proof is not a scientific concept. The term, “proof,� is a mathematical concept and is used in geometry and it is also an exercise in logic and used in courts of law, but does not belong in science. Scientists gather evidence to support or falsify hypotheses. Hypotheses and theories may be well supported by evidence. As such science seldom “concludes� and never “proves.�

Second, to say “Evolution is just a theory” is not an argument against it, but an argument for it. Only the most predictively powerful, strongly evidenced scientific ideas can ever rise to this elite status.

It is also important to make clear the distinction between “theory” and “law.” In science, a law is a (usually mathematical) description of some feature of the natural world. A theory is an explanation of that feature. In other words, laws say what happens, while theories explain why it happens. The law of gravity states that two objects attract each other with a force proportional to the product of their masses and inversely proportional to the square of the distance between them. It says what happens, but not why; it does not explain what gravity is or how it works. The theory of gravity explains why such an attraction exists. For instance, the theory of general relativity states that the attractive effect we perceive is merely the result of objects following the path of least resistance through a curved, four-dimensional spacetime. Theories do not change into laws as evidence accumulates to support them. Rather, theories are the “highest” one can get. Formulating theories is the end goal of all of science.

Evolution, however, is not just a theory. It is also a law. The law of evolution is that the frequency of different alleles in a population’s gene pool changes over time. This has been observed and is a fact. The theory of evolution is an explanation of that law - it says that allele frequencies change over time because organisms undergo random genetic mutation and experience differential reproductive success due to natural selection. This has also been observed and experimentally validated and thus is also a fact. Therefore, evolution is a fact, a theory, and a law, all simultaneously.

Evolution is called a “theory” because of scientific convention. All scientific knowledge is subject to updating as new information comes in and evolution is no exception.

In conclusion, it is apparent that school age students are not the only ones in need of a good science education. If this blog is any indication of the level of the general populations knowledge concerning the nature of science then the adult populace is in dire need of science education.

By Brian Curtis

January 14, 2005 10:59 AM | Link to this

The problem is not with “challenges to evolution.” Scientists disagree over details of evolutionary mechanisms all the time.

The problem is introducing religious teachings into a science classroom. Despite creationists’ best efforts, creationism is not a scientific theory and cannot be taught as science. If you want to call it “discrimination” to suggest that science classes should focus on teaching actual science, then so be it: we’re discriminating.

I’ll take it a step further and suggest that geometry classes teach only geometry instead of Acts and Deuteronomy.

By Brad

January 14, 2005 10:59 AM | Link to this

Wow! What a response. I’m glad to see that some people are realizing what the word “theory” actually means. I’m also glad to see that there is a judge who can separate science from religion and realize science is not an attack on religion. However, I’m still sad to know many think religion is threatened by science. Wake up and dare to use your brain!

By Coree

January 14, 2005 10:59 AM | Link to this

Sandy,

I don’t think a sticker needs to be placed in a book to point that out. It was never written in my text book that it was a Theory, it was the teachers responsibility to teach Science and Science is based on Theories, some are proven fact and some are still in the making. In my opinion it is the Teacher who needs to teach the Science of it, not the Christians. I myself do not believe in god, I believe in a higher power though.

Michael,

The Bible is a contradiction in itself. I am sorry, but if God Created the Earth, then explain the other Eight Planets in our Solar System as well as the other Solar Systems that have been discovered in our life time and who knows how many more are out there that are beyond our current view. I am sorry but without Science, we would not have the many things we currently have about our History, we would not be able to “somewhat” predict the weather and be able to explain anything about nothing. Guess what Medicine is a part of Science, or let me guess you don’t believe in that either. This also means without the study of science we would not have medications for Cancer or anything else for that matter. We could go on and on and on about this and everyone is going to have a different belief and opinion. Creationism, in my opinion, should not be taught in public schools. If you want your childern to learn this then put them in a private school.

Unfotunately neither Evolution nor Creationism has been proven. The bible was writen by man and man by its on admission is fallible. There are people who are going to disagree, but mankinds ultimate goal is to better ourselves not send us back to the stone age over petty crap like this. Leave Science to the people who study and leave religion to the people who study that. Do not try and force it on others. It will only split the nation, even the world. Remember “Love They Neighbor.”

By Katy

January 14, 2005 11:00 AM | Link to this

Important point - The disclaimer does not mention Creationism, God, or any religious comment whatsoever. It simply states: “This textbook contains material on evolution. Evolution is a theory, not a fact, regarding the origin of living things. This material should be approached with an open mind, studied carefully and critically considered.” I can validate the argument that evolution includes more than just the origin of living things, but the statement that evolution is “a theory not a fact” is true! Evolution is one of many scientific ideas that are considered theories, having no definite proof. As a Ph.D. student in anthropology, I can assure you that evolutionary theories are disputed constantly. A recent example would be the 4ft 1in man found in Indonesia this past year. I wish people would quit calling out “separation of church and state!” when, in this case, it is totally irrelevant.

By Hunter

January 14, 2005 11:02 AM | Link to this

Brian Curtis is right on, Antione is a dogmatist. Just as the “fact” of the day was that “the world is flat, the earth is the center of the universe” a man named Galileo came along and started OBSERVING nature (instead fo perscribing it to some unknown supernatural deity), and started QUESTIONING its phenomena, and started THINKING INDEPENDANTLY (I know, it’s hard sometimes). The, suddenly, the “facts” were proven wrong. The Catholic Church of course intervened and demanded Galileo to repent to save his soul, but unfortunately for them, they had to modify their perception of REALITY …

By jelena

January 14, 2005 11:02 AM | Link to this

i’d begun to lose my last sliver of faith in this backwards state we call home…this ruling has made me feel that maybe there is hope that we will not be looked upon as ignorant in the eyes of history…

By nathan

January 14, 2005 11:02 AM | Link to this

Michel, the basis for your arguments are flawed at best, and your lack of research on what the Bible actually says is obvious (example…there WERE plants in the earth after the flood because Noah didn’t even leave the ark until the dove brought back on olive leave in its mouth). Not only that, but you laugh at the supernatural like that proves the Bible is inaccurate or something. If God created the heavens and the earth (as stated in the very first verse), then does He not have the control to gather all the animals into the ark in one day? Or shake the ground when He is angry? If you discount the first verse of the Bible, then naturally you will discount the rest. So quick attacking the straw man; you wasting our time arguing against facts that you can neither prove or disprove (how many men fight in a battle etc); statements that are clearly not meant to be taken literally (unicorn); and the numbers game which many try to argue and fail (if I claim that 1000 men died in a battle but really the number was 990 am I lying? NO, just generalizing). Instead realize that there are only two views: people who believe Genesis 1:1, and those who do not. If we disagree on that, then everything else is a moot point. Either Gen 1:1 is true, or the whole Bible is a joke. For myself, I know that Gen 1:1 is literally true, and this belief is based on faith that was given to me by God (for without faith it is impossible to please God). For yourself, you seem to trust only in what your rational mind can comprehend (a mind created by nothing I assume, created by ‘evolution’). Where did all the matter come from? Nothing? Why do humans have a conscience, feelings, emotions etc. and animals do not? What about the dilemma of evil? Why is it here? What can be done about it? Why are so many things in this life explained by the Bible? Examples include: rainbows, the 5 day work week, almost all of our holidays, why Jews are so unfairly hated on this planet by many, the origin of different languages…I could go on and on. Basically you know there is a Creator, you’re just in denial. You’re playing a pathetic game with yourself and others by claiming that the Bible is inaccurate. Stop denying what you know is true: There is a God, you are accountable. God has burned it into every man’s soul that they are accountable to Him, men just suppress what they know is true because the thought of facing a judgment day would stop us from fulfilling our sinful desires in this life. By playing this game, your conscience is now clear to do anything and everything you desire without feeling guilty. And the notion that you can disprove the Bible (like men have been trying to do for 2 thousand years and have failed) is an age old attempt to mask the sinful desires of the human heart. God commands repentance and submission to His law, without that there will be eternal judgment in the lake of fire. “For it is appointed unto men to die once, and after this comes the judgment.�

By christy

January 14, 2005 11:03 AM | Link to this

Adam—PLEASE get a bible and read up on Christianity AND Judaism before you try to argue with it. Jesus was absolutely not a Christian, he was a Jew. God told his chosen people (the Jews—12 tribes of Israel, descendents of David) that he no longer wanted their sacrifices but he would be sending a man as a sacrifice for ALL mankind to be saved. When Jesus arrived on the scene he taught Jewish principles—but he also taught that HE was the sacrifice that God had promised his people. “Christian” is the term given to those how follow his teachings AND believe he’s the Messiah. I have Jewish friends who have explained that they don’t disagree with the teachings of Christ, they just don’t think He’s THE ONE and are still waiting for the Messiah God promised in hundreds of OLD TESTAMENT prophesies to his people. Your trying to discredit religious views when you clearly don’t understand them is just as ignorant as the folks on here who are trying to discredit evolution without really understanding it. If you want to really get into a religious discussion, feel free to email me and I’ll answer your arguments to the best of my ability.

By Michel

January 14, 2005 11:05 AM | Link to this

I do not think the educated people are frightened by a sticker so much as they are amazed that in 2005 people can be the way they are. I realize now that you can’t teach an old dog new tricks. I am very open to learning something new, I would love if someone could come along and show some evidence of one over the other, not only would I embrace the new idea (with evidence) it would probably change my way of thinking altogether. I would love that. But for now, evolution is what has the evidence to support it.

By Reeves Cantwalk

January 14, 2005 11:07 AM | Link to this

If you all love God and his little butthole baby Jesus so much, why don’t you go be with him. RIGHT NOW!! GO!!! QUICKLY!!! There are alot of tall buildings, you can do it!!

By nathan

January 14, 2005 11:10 AM | Link to this

Honestly, I could care less about the ruling. Does is sadden me? Yes it does. Do I oppose it? Yes I do. Will I go around complaining and carrying a sign? No I will not. It is not my duty to go around arguing for Christian ‘rights’ (actually we have none, we have been bought with a price…we are not our own).

Jesus face a far more corrupt nation in His day (the Romans), yet He didnt march down the stree demanding the government comply with the law of God. Neither will I…the will of God will prevail…

By Mike

January 14, 2005 11:12 AM | Link to this

Check it out…all you need is these two yahoos talking about the stickers in the books and you’ve got Cobb County. What a disgrace and a shame. Im embarresed to admit I am from this backwards state. [text to be linked]http://villagevoice.com/news/0447,sutton,58615,9.html

By Jim

January 14, 2005 11:16 AM | Link to this

First, for all who do not see a problem with the disclaimer because evolution IS A theory, the point is (stated more elequently by others in this blog than I can) science is full of theories. It is inappropriate to single out one scientific theory to warrant a disclaimer while ignoring others. By placing the disclaimer, the school board is saying, at the least, that evolution is a theory that may not warrant your consideration, while the other theories in this book are OK. That is not science.

Second, for those who wonder why schools cannot teach both theories. The problem there is if you introduce creationism, then you have more than two competing theories. Many religions have there own theories of the origins of life. Some poly-theistic, with different gods creating different things. It would be inappropriate to include only the Judeo-Christian theory - because then the state WOULD BE promoting one religion over another. So - why not teach them all? - well - first, there just isn’t enough time, and second, we are talking about science class, not comparative religion class.

Finally, for those who question Judge Cooper’s decision because the disclaimer does not mention God - although a strong point against an Establishment Clause challenge, you must look at all of the facts surrounding the decision to include the disclaimer, such as its focus on a single theory and the precursors to the board’s decision.

By Watson

January 14, 2005 11:16 AM | Link to this

The fascist attitude of those Christians that persist with the injection of their mythology into public schools is not only myopic but also un-American. If they want to believe in fairy tales, so be it; that’s their right. They do not, however, have the right to use my tax dollars to evangelize. I “pray” for them to teach their baloney to their kids at home or in their churches, and to stop inflicting the nonsense on the rest of us. What an idiotic waste of time and money.

By David P.

January 14, 2005 11:17 AM | Link to this

Anyone understand “Punctuated Equilibrium”. check it out.

By bill

January 14, 2005 11:20 AM | Link to this

“If you all love God and his little butthole baby Jesus so much, why don’t you go be with him. RIGHT NOW!! GO!!! QUICKLY!!! There are alot of tall buildings, you can do it!!”……..Wow Reeves, and I bet YOU are one of those who accuse Christians of being intolerant. …It’s typical of your type though, can’t intelligently discuss issues, so you just want all who disagree with you to jump off a building…..Sounds like somebody is just a TAD insecure with themselves!

By Michel

January 14, 2005 11:20 AM | Link to this

Nathan,

good post! I understand that argument, but surely there would be SOME other evidence to back up what the Bible says no? I do think the caveat in Gen 1:1 does help, and possibly even some argument can be put on this.
I also do believe in a higher power (God) but I know I can’t comprehend it. I think if what people say is true, God would be proud of me for going after things i am curious about. Besides, isn’t my typing this right now all part of the Devine Plan? You have no free will? That I struggle with….Maybe I’ll be wrong someday, maybe I’ll go to hell, it is a risk I am willing to take because according to my 18 years of Catholic teachings God loves me and I am prolly not going to hell anyway, I am just trying to understand. I bet God thinks that is OK. My point on the Bible is that there are so many inaccuracies and all out lies that it can not be the sole trusted source for scientific fact. I believe it states that the Jews were enslaved by the Egyptians, you would think that if one population of people is enslaved by another group of people, it would be depicted SOMEWHERE other than the Bible….that’s a lot of people we are talking about.
My lack opf research? I agree i did paraphrase, but i put the reference in the post as to where in the bible it is found, sure i didn’t put the book name, but i figured those who i wanted to understand the post would know the book.
Again, Nathan, thank you your post was decent, but certianly not enough to convince people that the Bible is an accurate document.

By Adam

January 14, 2005 11:21 AM | Link to this

Mike, thanks for making my day.

By cw

January 14, 2005 11:22 AM | Link to this

Excellent decision! Religion has become insidious in daily life. Go to church for your “God fix”, and live your life in a good way, but leave schools for their intended purpose - to teach skills needed to make a living, including Science.

By Erik

January 14, 2005 11:23 AM | Link to this

My land, the power of training! Of influence! Of education! It can bring a body up to believe anything. - Mark Twain, A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur’s Court

By Greg

January 14, 2005 11:25 AM | Link to this

This is one Christian who says RIGHT ON!OUTSTANDING! The public school system should be sensative to the beliefs of all, not just the tyranical fundamentalist Christian pseudo-majority. I have faith in my God, and understand that evolution and creationism are not mutually-exclusive, but that doesn’t mean that it is right to present it in the public classroom, uness there is room for discussion of all beliefs. Evolution is fact. Get over it.

By Marc

January 14, 2005 11:28 AM | Link to this

It seems that those who hold that evolution is FACT would be the same types of people that would have argued that the world was flat when science said so. Just because something is the current accepted scientific “best guess” does not make it FACT or the ONLY possiblity! Getting into the 21st centrury means exploring ALL possibilities with the best scientific AND theological insights we can produce. Each of us has a choice and when those who believe one idea have the legal right to rule, to exclude the POSSIBILITY of any other ideas, over ALL other choices, it seems to be something has broken down. As fallable as man is, science has proven time and time that “theroies” are wrong all the time. And a sticker that constitutes keeping an open mind is in NO way a “banner” to promote creationism - where does the sticker point to creationism?. The sticker is not asking those who do not subscribe to the creationism theory to study it, anywhere at anytime. Let’s stick to the facts of the case and stop reading too much into the issue (as I think the judge did and mistakenly taken away the right of individauls to CONSIDER any alternatives).

By Lacy

January 14, 2005 11:29 AM | Link to this

I cannot believe that people are still arguing about this! It’s ridiculous! I think every person should have to take a class on scientific thought/inquiry to at least help them not make such asinine statements. 1.) You can not “believe” or “disbelieve” in evolution. Beliefs and faiths have no place in a scientific debate. You can agree that data supports/does not support something, or argue that more data is needed for something to be conclusive, but you cannot “believe” in a scientific theory. Semantics, sure, but an important point. Evolution is a fact. Organisms do change over time. That we have incontrovertible proof of. Go visit a castle in England. Beds/doorways, etc. are shorter because people were shorter. We’ve changed. Does that mean that evolution explains “how we got here?” Maybe not. We don’t know the mechanics for how life arose and how a single-celled organism became a complex mammal. We have ideas, we can test the ideas. But do not let this lack of knowledge about the origin of life confuse you—evolution in it’s simplest form [change over time] IS a fact. Oh, and as a side note, stop bringing up the “evolutionists think we came from monkeys” argument. No one who has actually read Darwin’s Descent of Man or any other scholarly text knows that is not what current evolutionary theory holds. COMMON ANCESTOR, people… we can’t have evolved from something still present. Sorry, I digress. 2.) Laypeople MUST learn the difference between a scientific theory and a regular theory. Evolution has been tested extensively, and has, on the whole, stood up well and not been disproved. This is not to say all data is positive… this just lets us know that we don’t know all there is to know. There are “holes” in Einstein’s Theory of Relativity in some conditions, but on the whole, it stands up and is accepted. Learn the difference between a theory and a hypothesis (which is more like what people call a theory). 3. Regardless of your position on evolution, teaching it in school is a purely logical choice. There is not time or resources to teach EVERY creation story. If a school chooses to offer a “Creation Theory” course [I’m sure some colleges do], THEN you can have your time. But wasting time in a SCIENCE class trying to appease every religion is silly. 4. There is no point in omitting evolution. Evolution is present in every page of a biology or genetics textbook. It is an underlying theme and connector for everything discussed in biology. How can you learn about organisms without questioning “why does the organism have this? What is it’s purpose?” The answer is usually “because it has an evolutionary advantage.” If you omit this, all you are teaching is a set of random, unconnected facts. Basic Biology makes no sense without evolution, regardless of how you think life arose. 5. For those of you have purport to have “solid proof” that evolution is wrong, what is this proof? Yes, there are inconsistancies with the data in relation to the timeframe, etc. Yes, new models need to be made/adjusted to better fit the data. That’s what science is about. That does not make the underlying theme wrong. At first Watson and Crick proposed a model for DNA that wasn’t right… that didn’t mean DNA didn’t exist—just that we didn’t fully understand yet. In science classes, if you pay attention, we do differentiate between what is known and what is commonly accepted and what is implied. 6. As for other comments, the underlying problem with the stickers was that the religious zealots wanted to open the door for teaching their brand of “science” in a REAL science class. They do not like hearing opposing opinions taught to their children—despite the fact that they can simply tell their kids “keep an open mind in class. Learn about evolution. But remember what the Bible says, too.” I didn’t like or agree with everything I learned in my other classes, but I learned it because that is what was required and because it was important. At least it gives you the tools to have an intelligent debate and not just rely on “Well, I know we didn’t come from monkeys. You Evolutionists are going to Hell.” There is neither the time nor the need for teaching anything other than scientific theories in a science class, and any other “scientific theories” are radical and not very widely accepted. Learning about those things are better left to upper level courses in college, not in high school, which should be preparing your child for further classes.

Keep your religion at home or in the Church. Or enroll your child in a Church school. Otherwise, accept the fact that your child will have access to information that might be opposed to your beliefs, and be happy that this will help them be more well-rounded individuals.

By jessica

January 14, 2005 11:32 AM | Link to this

thank god we’re finally moving FORWARD instead of backwards. Separation of church and state is in the first ammendment. Evolution may not be fact but it is much more credible than the theory of creation.

By Jeff

January 14, 2005 11:32 AM | Link to this

Evolution is a theory. Creationism is a story. Personally, I believe that Zorf from Radon 7 created the Earth. Hey, there’s as much proof for that as there is for Creationism. Why are Creationists so scared of Zorfism! Why am I so persecuted in America! Woe is me!

By Jay

January 14, 2005 11:36 AM | Link to this

My mouth is hanging open - I read what is posted here and I am simply astounded.

Darwin is not the final word on evolution - so let’s drop his name from the discussion - there have been many more that have taken up the idea of evolution.

I’m a Christian, but I am sincerely scared by some of the posts from people claiming to be Christian. When did Christianity become a platform for political agenda? Nothing wrong with Christ - but WAY TOO MUCH WRONG about what man does to Christ.

Christians need to make a decission - do i believe in Christ, or do i like to use some of those really judgemental things in the Old Testament for my own agenda here on earth? Most of you would need to answer the latter. Can anyone say and understand “NEW COVENANT?”

Can’t believe how many folks think the Bible should be interpreted literally. Come on folks - guess we need to stone all the fottball players because the touch the skin of a dead pig on a regular basis. I don’t see unruly children taken outside the city wall and stomed to death. The old testament is full of stories to help us understand and deal with life - little of it is literal.

No religion has the right in this country to force it’s views onto others. That was the purpose of the sticker and we all know it. Every parent has the right to teach their children other ways of interpreting history, but Christians don’t have the right to put these stickers into books that are used by people with different religious views and different scientific views - that is not a right in this country. If it is, then some whacko who believed that Hitler was on the right trail with his breeding ideas needs to be a part of the dicsussion too.

Step into the light - the light of enlightenment. God isn’t some grey bearded gentleman living in the clouds - I believe God is the word we use for the power that brought everything into being and binds us together. Did it take him seven days - probably should think in terms of billions of years not literal “days.”

Let’s all stay away from how the Bible was put together (a little convention of MEN - not God who decided which books are OK and which weren’t) there’s too much about how man screws up religion to write here. But plenty of you “Christians” are giving living breathing examples of what’s wrong with MAN’s interpretation of religion.

“But the worst are the TV evvangelists. Always asking for money … money … money … money. If Jesus came back and saw all the things done in his name, he would never stop throwing up.” AMEN!

By Jeff

January 14, 2005 11:36 AM | Link to this

Marc

Science never said the world was flat. The church did. You guys are always wrong in the end. Just give it up.

By Steve

January 14, 2005 11:37 AM | Link to this

Louis maybe I missed something, but I didn’t see the word God in the preamble either! It also doesn’t mention a state religion! These were very intelligent men, who spent a long time writing a serious document. What is included and excluded reflects their exaxt intentions. Don’t try to read your values between the lines.

By Rowan

January 14, 2005 11:38 AM | Link to this

Excellent news! But this is only the first step in bringing intelligence to Georgia. Keep up the good work!!!

By Steve

January 14, 2005 11:41 AM | Link to this

I invite so-called well educated individuals to peruse Meyer’s article, “The origin of biological information and the higher taxonomic categories,” found in the Proceedings of the Biological Society of Washington journal, 117(2): 213-239. It can be accessed at [http://www.theapologiaproject.org/The%20Origin%20of%20Biological%20Information.pdf]. The demise of the theory of evolution will ultimately result from the absence of empirical evidence, not from stickers in grade school textbooks.

By Michael

January 14, 2005 11:42 AM | Link to this

jessica, please read the first amendment. It does not say nor imply separation of church and state.

Fisher Ames who wrote the first amendment and clearly understood it also wrote, “the Bible should always remain the principle text book in America’s classrooms”.

By Trey

January 14, 2005 11:42 AM | Link to this

This really has nothing to do with the evolution issue, I just want to know why so many Christians translate the Bible the way they want to. They act as if some divine interpreter has come down and said…”Take everything in this chapter word for word….but 2 chapters later, you can interpret this however you want to….” The way you treat God’s word is crap people. No one gave you liscense to dole out judgements or translations of a text that most of you are afraid to really read the history of. I have never met a more hypocritical group of people than the many so-called Christians that I have grown up with. You ascribe to live your life by a wonderful set of values and you are doing an awful job of it! What does it say? Judge not lest ye be judged….or does that apply only Mondays, not sure?….if you truly believe in the Bible, word for word, then explain 1 thing for me: God created adam and eve, they had cain and abel…cain slew abel…went over the mountains and “came to know his wife from Nod”….there is never any mention of his wife before hand…where in the world did she come from?….it didn’t ever mention the creation of any extra characters, so according to you guys…they shouldn’t exist….unless the Bible doesn’t tell us everything about everything and we are supposed to just infer certain things…wow…You are living your life according to a book of contradictions and it is a sad fact of life. I believe in Jesus, that he was the true Son of God, that he died, arose, and that he sits by His side in heaven. I use the Bible to help me learn more about how He lived and about how Christianity came to be. It’s a historical account, that I believe, we are supposed to use to grow spiritually with God. You have no right to tell me, or anyone else, how to truly live my life and what to believe. No one has ever asked students to believe anything that they teach them. You don’t have to believe that 1 + 1 = 2 or that over millions of years, random changes can occur in DNA that can eventually change entire species, but you had better be able to apply that principle on my test. Who says God can’t cause those changes? Why are you so threatened by science? Science is such a wonderful thing that in no way can take away your belief of God (whatever that belief is. You’re holding on too tightly people, loosen up.

By jessica

January 14, 2005 11:45 AM | Link to this

The Bible should have nothing to do with the law. ever. Its time for self-rightous people to realize not everyone is Christian or agrees with Christian beliefs. I’ve taken college biology and evolution classes and people don’t realize evolution is still going on. For instance take the human appenix. Its a useless organ because we’ve evolved to not need it anymore. The same goes for wisdom teeth. Be intelligent enough to form your own theories and not accept what is drilled into your head.

By Kevin

January 14, 2005 11:45 AM | Link to this

Creationism is not a science supported by facts and has no place in education.

Evolution is a theory supported by facts and should not be subverted by personal beliefs.

The problem with human beings is the same as it has been from the beginning of our existence; we vastly over emphasize our importance in the grand scheme of things. We as Homo sapiens sapiens are just another species that evolved from this universe. The universe was not made ONLY for us. We are a product of the universe which is not just a thing but a process. I will leave how this process initiated up to your personal beliefs but it was not started by an old man with a white beard.

The fact is that in 500K years or so, if we finally figure out a way to stop killing ourselves, Homo sapiens sapiens will not exist and we will evolve into another species unless. Unless we take our heads out of the sand, embrace reality and understand that change is inevitable we will end up as just another genetic dead end like Homo neanderthalensis.

By Richard Roma

January 14, 2005 11:46 AM | Link to this

Throughout the course of this blog, I have seen a lot of people challenging the proof evolution or the proof of creationism. Those arguments are so far from the point that they merit there own seperate topic.

The only thing that needs to be proved is whether or not this sticker violated any constitutional amendment by establishing a state religion, or that the sticker is saying anything that is not true.

Personally, I would not want the state teaching (or preaching) any religion, not so much because of a fear of the state establishing a religion, but more because of the state’s lack of ability to teach anything well.

I, for one, do not support government schools and I encourage parents who are upset with this ruling to seek alternative schools for their children. Do not donate to public schools and keep as far away from them as possible, esecially Georgia schools which have ranked very low in the national standing.

I did not realize how bad my public education was until I entered my first year of college where I met several students from various private schools who were far more advanced than I. I envied them and I vowed to never send my children to a public school no matter what the cost.

By Steve

January 14, 2005 11:46 AM | Link to this

Gee, I thought a 70 million year old worldwide fossil record might equate to “evidence”.

By the way wasn’t this settled in 1923 with the Scopes Monkey trial?

The Bible also gives detailed instructions on how to slaughter cattle as “offerings to God”, do you all advocate that?

By Reggie

January 14, 2005 11:47 AM | Link to this

Creation, evolution, science, quantum physics, spirituality… it’s all GOD!!

By jessica

January 14, 2005 11:51 AM | Link to this

here Michael- the first amendment.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

let me reiterate: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion.

I think its safe to saw that means to mixing church and state. Also, did you know the founding fathers had Deist intentions? Nice try thanks.

By Michael

January 14, 2005 11:52 AM | Link to this

Steve, the fossil record shows species in their completed form. It does not show species evolving over time. However, you are right, this is evidence for creation.

By Andrea

January 14, 2005 11:54 AM | Link to this

I think it is a shame. There is no harm in saying to students, “hey think about this for yourself!” The kids that do believe in creation rather than evolution still have the right to believe in God. Calling evolution a theory is the best way to go about educating students about the different things people believe. The stickers could have been a good springboard into teaching students tolerance of different beliefs, which in this era is something we all could learn.

By Richard Roma

January 14, 2005 11:57 AM | Link to this

Jessica, you need to realize that those that believe in the Bible believe it is the supreme law, and you are arrogant to believe that you are the one who is correct and that they are the ones who have fallen for some scam.

Understand these facts:

1 Evolution is a theory. 2 Creationism is a belief or faith. 3 One can prove or disprove a theory through the scientific process. 4 One cannot prove or disprove the existence of a God. 5 There are many Christians that believe in evolution, but they believe that God created man.

By Diane

January 14, 2005 12:00 PM | Link to this

I have always wondered why some people are so sure that they know how long a day is to God. Evolution and Creationism are not now, nor ever have been mutually exclusive. You can believe one or the other, both or neither. Dogma belongs in the Church, science in the classroom.

By Greg

January 14, 2005 12:04 PM | Link to this

Can one of you wingnuts please explain to me why Christian theology deserves any more of a place in a science class than the theory that Zeus created man from clay, or that colonists from a far away planet landed on earth millennia ago? Scientific facts and theories (yes, I know its only the theory of evolution) are based on documentation and examination of observable evidence, not just any system of ideas you can come up with. Just because you had some idiotic fantasy driven into your skulls from the day you first went to church doesn’t make it correct. Just because your parents believed it, and their parents believed it doesn’t make it correct. Everyone should examine your beliefs (not just Christians, not just religious people - everyone). Examine all of them to see if there’s really any evidence for their truth. Just because certain natural phenomena are unexplainable in certain terms now doesn’t mean they will be that way forever, and it certainly doesn’t warrant a leap to the conclusion that some deity must be responsible. The notion that the ‘natural order’ is too complex and perfect to not have been ordained by a higher intelligence is absurd. The history of life on this planet is filled with failed mutation and evolution (think dinosaurs). In any case, science class is a place for the examination of evidence of possible scientific fact, not fantasy and mythology.

By Richard Roma

January 14, 2005 12:04 PM | Link to this

Jessica, you are misinterpreting the Constitution. Congress cannot make a law establishing a religion. Do you know what a law is? Do you know what it means to establish a religion. The point of that amendment was to prevent our government from establishing a religion as a state religion ie. the Church of England. You definition of “separation of church and state” has nothing to do with this amendment. In the context of this topic, no law was created to establish a religion.

By Ben

January 14, 2005 12:04 PM | Link to this

Evolution is a guess, not a fact. In fact, I believe the guess is wrong. How can it explain the origin of human being with so little understand of our history (before any records) and some bones coming out from earth? Putting it in text book is both non-scientific and irresponsible.

By Dave

January 14, 2005 12:05 PM | Link to this

Can someone please link where it says in the U.S. Constitution , “The Seperation of Church and State”? This is a violation of the first Amendment in the bill of rights. Let me quote,

“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof”

The first part is pretty clear. Translation there will not be a state religion. For instance, it will not like in Saudi Arabia where the government religion is Muslim. Now please focus on the latter “or prohibiting the free exercise thereof”.

By not allowing people to discuss a religious point of view is a violation of the first Amendment. Therefore, all religious can exercise their belief in the public without the government saying no you cannot do this.

BTW, can someone tell me where it says you have a right not to be offended?

I have to laugh at the illogical thought process of some people on this board. If God cannot just exist out of no where, then how can the big bang? You see on one hand the Atheist/Agnostic believes are saying one thing can happen out of nothing (the big bang), but not another thing (God). How can particles come up out of no where. Who created the particles. Your arguments are fundamentally flawed, and not logically consistent.

Here is another though process. Have you ever considered that yes the big bang did happen, but who was behind it? Answer…. God

There is no argument that we use a very little percent of out brain for thought. Why can’t anyone consider that maybe its beyond our though process. Kind of like the car, airplane, and radio before they were invented.

All I know is that in order to have anything on this Earth it has to be created. For instance, a computer. A computer does not come together all by itself. It must be created, and designed to work. Just like our bodies. Our bodies are designed to work perfectly with the Earth in homeostasis.

I wonder mathematical equation is of the chances of all this stuff just happening out of no where???

By Steve

January 14, 2005 12:07 PM | Link to this

Let’s get on the same page with a definition of Scientific Theory. It’s much different than the everyday use of the word.

**Many people think of science as little more than a gathering or encyclopedia of facts and, as Zorn notes, there’s a perception that a scientific “theoryâ€? is merely a vague hypothesis or guess, as good (or bad) as any other.

These common perceptions are actually quite far from science. Looking back on the requirements for a “viable� theory of gravity as described in the previous posting (see the link above), it should now be clear that a good theory is vastly more robust than than a mere guess. It must be internally self-consistent, incorporate all of physics (and chemistry, etc.) beneath its theoretical umbrella, agree with every experiment ever performed, and predict a vast spectrum of observable phenomena for the future.**

http://impearls.blogspot.com/20040418impearlsarchive.html

By Lemon

January 14, 2005 12:07 PM | Link to this

Thank God for Federal Court Judges! Without them we’d still be segregated (even more than we still are); police would run amuck (even more than they still do) and we might be living in the country of United Ignorant Bliss.

By Kat

January 14, 2005 12:07 PM | Link to this

Christy & Christie - If teaching evolution in schools is discrimination of Christianity and its values, then why don’t churches teach evolution? If parents are instilling Christian beliefs and values in their children at home and everyone’s going to church, then don’t you think they are getting to hear both sides? There’s a reason there’s a separation between church and state. Go hear Christian beliefs at church, and scientific information at school. If the children really are attending both church and school, then they have plenty of information to decide for themselves. If children go to both school and church then they ARE hearing both sides. And by the way, there is a difference in the definition of “belief” and “theory” - one can be proven.

By Richard Roma

January 14, 2005 12:07 PM | Link to this

Jessica, you are misinterpreting the Constitution. Congress cannot make a law establishing a religion. Do you know what a law is? Do you know what it means to establish a religion. The point of that amendment was to prevent our government from establishing a religion as a state religion ie. the Church of England. You definition of “separation of church and state” has nothing to do with this amendment. In the context of this topic, no law was created to establish a religion.

By Joel Edwards

January 14, 2005 12:08 PM | Link to this

By Pope Bandar bin Turtle

January 14, 2005 12:08 PM | Link to this

I think “evolution disclaimers” should be required on science textbooks IF AND ONLY IF “religion disclaimers” are required on all bibles & religious broadcasts & materials. As an alternative, perhaps those who want “intelligent (sic) design” taught in science classes would be amenable to having evolution taught during their sunday school classes.

Kindest regards,

Pope Bandar bin Turtle BOx Turtles For Universal Xceptance

Link: (http://botfux.keveenpheeleeps.com/)

By Richard Roma

January 14, 2005 12:10 PM | Link to this

Greg- Religion has no place in a science class. But a sticker on a book stating that evolution is a theory is not a religious lesson. Its a fact. Do you believe that evolution is not a theory? If so then provide the test and evidence that states that it is a scientific fact.

By Andy

January 14, 2005 12:11 PM | Link to this

What faith it must take to believe that a labaratory test can tell you that a bone is 70 million years old.

(come on, hit me with your best “carbon-dating is accurate” dissertation)

By Katie

January 14, 2005 12:15 PM | Link to this

I went to a parochial school and we addressed this issue- my science teacher explained it as God created the big bang, but evolution happened thereafter. This is only theory but I was happy with it because it seems more probable than the theory of creation. We were also taught that modern interpretations of the Bible could be misinterpreted and taken way too literal. Either way, I think our government should be completely neutral in religion and not focus on Christianity.

By Jay

January 14, 2005 12:18 PM | Link to this

Dave - no one is topping you from having the personal freedom to exercise your own religion. The law is there to stop you from being so arrogant as to believe that it deserves to be forced onto other people - stop interpreting for yourself and look at the big picture. Christianity is NOT a political system - it does not have a place in a political system - though I admit, Bush get this confused too. Of course the Bible says that lying is a bad thing and we should not do it - Mr. Bush has a lot to answer for in this regard (No WMD in Iraq!)

By Anthony

January 14, 2005 12:20 PM | Link to this

Christians are so silly, it is amusing. They try to get everyone else to believe the mumbo jumbo they believe in so they won’t feel so silly. I guess their line of thinking is that if EVERYONE believes an all powerful being who lives in the sky created the world and requires ten percent of their income, they won’t feel so ridiculous. The hilarious thing is that they selectively follow the tenets of their own bible. How many christians eat pork or deer (animals with a cloven hoof)? The bible says the punishment for doing so is to be stoned to death.

BAAAAAAAAAAHHH. Mindless sheep.

By Katie

January 14, 2005 12:21 PM | Link to this

What faith it must take to be ignorant enough to think carbon dating is completely false after its been proven simply in murder cases. Plus, it is fact that no human has ever walked with dinosaurs- meaning those bones have to be older than the existance of the human race.

By Sylvia Barksdale

January 14, 2005 12:22 PM | Link to this

I have been a lifelong student of philosophy. I believe philosophy should be taught in schools, in some form, as early as grade school.

Philosophy teaches logic, reason and delivers one with the ability to think for themselves although in many instances, it may go against what the masses believe.

Evolution is the closest answer to our existence. What little we actually know of evolution should be taught along with philosophy. Perhaps some day we may become an enlightened nation free of the dogmas that have created so much diversion amongst us.

By Richard Roma

January 14, 2005 12:23 PM | Link to this

Jay, do you have a hard time staying on topic or do you just have a 1 track mind. Bush won - get over it. And the funny thing is is now the Dems are trying their hardest to appeal to religious people in this country. It will be be interesting to see how much God is in their rhetoric in 2008.

By Andy

January 14, 2005 12:25 PM | Link to this

Anthony, uh, dude, that was the Old Testament. Don’t you remember that from Sunday School?

By David

January 14, 2005 12:26 PM | Link to this

It’s illegal to put a sticker in a book that reminds students that the theory of evolution is, in fact, a theory!? This is not about government pushing religion; this is about the anti-religious left trying to stamp out religion. What’s next - will the left sue to force GA teachers to teach that the theory of global warming (caused by capitalistic Americans, of course) is a fact? I hope Cobb County appeals this as far as necessary because I can’t believe that ultimately the Supreme Court will disallow them from calling a theory a theory.

By Ellen

January 14, 2005 12:26 PM | Link to this

You creationists are confused about evolution. Maybe that’s another reason, in addition to your literal interpretation of the Bible, that prevents you from accepting it. Darwin never said that humans are directly related to the lower primates, only that we have a common relative. However, anyone who has ever looked into the faces of these creatures and can still say there is no connection between us is in denial - and “that ain’t just a river in Egypt,” as Mark Twain said.

By Michael

January 14, 2005 12:28 PM | Link to this

jessica, let me reiterate: there is no “separation of church and state” in the first amendment. This phrase comes from an exchage of letters between President Thomas Jeffeson and the Baptist Association of Danbury, Connecticut, shortly after Jefferson became President.

Do some research and you will find Jefferson believed that God, not government, was the Author and Source of our rights and that government, therefore, was to be prevented from interference with those rights. From these letters, Jefferson’s intent was not to limit religious activities in public; rather they were to limit the power of the government to prohibit or interfere with those expressions.

Also, the Congressional Records from June 7 to September 25, 1789, record the months of discussions and debates of the ninety Founding Fathers who framed the First Amendment. Thomas Jefferson was not one of the Ninety who framed the First Amendment. During those debates not one of the ninety Framers ever mentioned the phrase “separation of church and state.” It seems logical that if this had been the intent of the First Amendment, as is frequently asserted these days, at least one of the ninety who framed the Amendment would have mentioned it, none did.

This is simply a phrase that a group of judges selectively perverted to affirm their own opinion.

By Andy

January 14, 2005 12:28 PM | Link to this

Katie, I’m sorry. I didn’t realize that there were any 70 million year old murder cases solved recently. Also, it doesn’t take faith to be ignorant.

By Richard Roma

January 14, 2005 12:29 PM | Link to this

Anthony gets the award for the most arrogant person in this discussion.

By Doug

January 14, 2005 12:29 PM | Link to this

Honestly, I think its all a load of crap I mean if parents want their kids to believe what they believe there’s a problem. If students like myself are going to beleave every single thing put in front of us we’re screwed.I think it’s the students place to complain not the parent. I go to church I believe in God but school screwed up a lot of things dealing with religion. I’m willing to bet if we brought religion back into school it would be better. I personally wish we still had religion in school,not very many people would disagree.

By Steve

January 14, 2005 12:29 PM | Link to this

Andy, The ‘story” of creation is in the Old Testament. Dude.

By Andy

January 14, 2005 12:32 PM | Link to this

Steve, read Anthony’s last post before commenting on my reference. He was talking about eating animals with cloven feet and how Christians are forbidden to do so. Dude.

By Aanthony

January 14, 2005 12:33 PM | Link to this

Uh, Andy, dude…MY POINT EXACTLY!

If the bible truly is the word of god, how can man change his interpretation to better fit their needs and desires? Selective interpretation, that’s how.

I can see it now…Some dude had the cajones to step up and say, “OK everybody…throw away your old bibles…I have the new and improved word of god! Eat all the pork you want! Hooray!”

Face it: You have based a whole moral stand and way of life on a fairy tale. That’s fine. Just don’t expect me to listen to you drone on about it, and don’t expect me to stand by while your ilk try to indoctrinate my children with your ridiculous beliefs.

Silly Christians……

By Glenn Jennings

January 14, 2005 12:34 PM | Link to this

What? Now we can’t even describe Evolution as a theory? Or tell kids to have an open mind about the theory? For a School Board to emphasize to kids to have an open mind about evolution is not an establishment by Congress of religion! This is convoluted to say the least. On the contrary, to tell a duly elected School Board that it CAN’T warn kids in effect establishes anti-religion. This has ceased to be about science. Since evolution is based on the idea that there is no God, that there must be some explanation for origins other than creation, then it too is religion at it’s core—atheism.

By Paul

January 14, 2005 12:35 PM | Link to this

It IS a theory! There are a lot of facets to this theory, some of which are being proven as fact and some of which are very tenuous at best. The stickers should definitely be included as there is no mention of religion. Even the greatest atheist of all time recently changed his tune and now believes that the SCIENTIFIC evidence supports an intelligent design theory.

By Andy

January 14, 2005 12:36 PM | Link to this

OK, Sunday School lesson time for Anthony. In the New Testament, Peter was given a vision from God that told him it was OK to eat food that was previously forbidden. Why do you care anyway?

By Steve

January 14, 2005 12:37 PM | Link to this

Andy, how do you determine what parts of the Old Testament you are going to believe?

By Louis

January 14, 2005 12:39 PM | Link to this

Mary had a little lamb, His fleece was white as snow. And everywhere that Mary went, The Lamb was sure to go. He followed her to school each day, Twasn’t even in the rule. He made children laugh and play, To have a lamb at school.

And then someone filed suite one day, And made it Illegal have the lamb at school. For to even speak the name of the Lamb of God, Was surely against the Rule!

Every day got worse and worse, And the days turned into years. Now instead of hearing children laugh, We hear gunshots and tears. What must we do to stop the Crime, That’s in our schools today? Let the Lamb come back to school, And teach our kids to pray!

By Steve

January 14, 2005 12:40 PM | Link to this

the greatest atheist of all time?????

Babe Ruth was the greatest hitter, I don’t know what constitutes the greatest atheist!

By Anthony

January 14, 2005 12:40 PM | Link to this

“Even the greatest atheist of all time recently changed his tune and now believes that the SCIENTIFIC evidence supports an intelligent design theory.”

OK, let’s say for the sake of argument that I agree there is scientific evidence that supports an intelligent design theory.

Now give me some scientific evidence that your god was said creator. And save your diatribe about faith for the other sheep. Give me FACTS. I’ll be waiting.

By Andy

January 14, 2005 12:42 PM | Link to this

Louis, I’m with you man but the evolutionists on this blog don’t go for that “cause and effect” kind of stuff. Peace.

By Katie

January 14, 2005 12:43 PM | Link to this

Andy, I guess you’ve never heard of half-life. And they do use carbon testing for recent cases, its not just for millions of years old fossils. Take a science or foresnics class.

By Brent

January 14, 2005 12:43 PM | Link to this

Theroy = An assumption based on limited information or knowledge; a conjecture.

No one ever has all the information! So there for a Theory is just like a Belief.

By Sean

January 14, 2005 12:44 PM | Link to this

Hey Louis—we really don’t want prayer at school. Although I like the poem, I’d prefer to teach my kids to pray at home. Aside from the fact that its unconstitutional to pray in school (taxpayer money spent on promoting a religion, etc), it seems to me there’s a real problem deciding which prayers to use. Would it be a general, non-denomintational prayer, the Hail Mary (Catholic prayer—protestants would freak), how about reading verses from the Koran or talmud? I vote for none of the above—prayer at home and church.

By Anthony

January 14, 2005 12:44 PM | Link to this

Oh, I see….Peter was given a vision from God….(Stifled laughter)

It amazes me that christians expect everyone to accept their make believe fables as fact. It doesn’t work that way, DUDE.

BAAAAAAAAH!!

By Dave

January 14, 2005 12:44 PM | Link to this

Jay,

When you said,

“The law is there to stop you from being so arrogant as to believe that it deserves to be forced onto other people “

You just validated to me that you do not understand 1st Amendment. Let me break it down for you again,

“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof�

1) “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion”

A) Translation Congress (our government) shall make no law (Cannot pass a law) respecting an establishment of religion (setting up a single religion for the entire country that everyone must believe) This part was set up because England had an established (State) religion at the time, and the founding fathers each had their own beliefs.

2) “or prohibiting the free exercise thereof”

B) Translation “or prohibiting (not allowing/ creating a law) the free exercise thereof” (practicing your religion).

The stickers in the text book represent “the free exercise thereof” or “practicing of religion”. Anyone can put their own religion forward? You say I am arrogant because I want to exercise my first Amendment right. Please….. I think you are the one that is arrogant by trying to suppress my free exercise of religion.

By Ken

January 14, 2005 12:48 PM | Link to this

For what it is worth, which may not be much, freedom of religion can also be reflected as freedom from religion. I am a Christian. Jesus is my Savior. Now with that said, I agree that the public school should not be proclaiming religion. If that were allowed, teachers of any type of faith would be allowed to perhaps teach his/her faith and that is not acceptable. I have the right to be free from religion.

However, many argue that evolution is the only explanation for the world. One has the right to believe that as well as I have the right to believe what I do. I don’t have the right to disparage your believe, just as you do not have the right to disparage my believe. When an idea appears in a textbook, it is normally accepted as fact. Now, I would argue that faith in evolution is just as much a religion as faith in creationism. (In fact, to believe that something comes from nothing takes much more faith than creationism — and there is a great deal of scientific evidence out there — more than most realize — which supports creationism.) Do I not have the right to be free from the religion of evolution?

Bottom line: Is a sticker in a textbook that harmful for people who believe in evolution? Is is not hard to understand that for people of faith in creationism that a public school textbook which portrays evolution as fact is offensive? The Cobb School Board did a simple thing to try to compromise on a delicate issue. For those who opposed a simple sticker because they think it promotes religion, all it has done is cost the taxpayers a bunch of money.

By Andy

January 14, 2005 12:48 PM | Link to this

Katie, Wow! I guess I wasted that sarcasm on you with my comment about the 70 million year old murder case. Sorry, I’ll keep it more simple next time. ;-) By the way, half-life is relative.

By Katie

January 14, 2005 12:49 PM | Link to this

Anthony, don’t forget that if you disagree with their princples, youre a heathen also. Ironic…

By Michael

January 14, 2005 12:50 PM | Link to this

Anthony, do you see the trees, animals, water, food, etc. “You will know me by my creation.”

If you can see it then it must be real. If it is real then God must have created it. Those are the facts.

If you don’t believe what you see then we must all be part of the Matrix. You know the rest of the story.

How is that for scientific evidence?

By Brent

January 14, 2005 12:50 PM | Link to this

At some point you have to have FAITH. For you to tell God that you need FACTs is a slap in his faith, and even if you saw the FACTS you would say that is not enough for me to truely say there is a God. At some point you have to take that LEAP OF FAITH.

By Anthony

January 14, 2005 12:51 PM | Link to this

Dave,

You have the right to exercise your religion, just not when it is rammed down the throat of others.

What you believe in is the right to exercise christianity, not the right to exercise religion.

If someone was pushing to have the Koran read in schools, you and the rest of the hypocrites would go ballistic.

Typical mindless sheep, rationalizing but not really thinking.

By Brent

January 14, 2005 12:51 PM | Link to this

At some point you have to have FAITH. For you to tell God that you need FACTs is a slap in his face, and even if you saw the FACTS you would say that is not enough for me to truely say there is a God. At some point you have to take that LEAP OF FAITH.

By Steve

January 14, 2005 12:51 PM | Link to this

dave, You can push your religion in public. You can push your religion here on the internet.

YOU CAN’T PUSH YOUR RELIGION ON MY KID IN PULBIC SCHOOLS, PAID FOR WITH EVERYBODIES TAX DOLLARS. GET IT? GET A CLUE!!!

By David W

January 14, 2005 12:53 PM | Link to this

These bigoted anti-Christian rulings on marriage, schools, decorations in public places have fired up pro-Christian voters and gave us friendly governments in Washington and Atlanta. The elections have shown that the pro-Christian side can win more elections nationally and in Georgia than the anti-Christian bigots when both sides are energized. The pro-Christian and Conservative side needs its judges confirmed ASAP. We need to stop arguing with the Marxists and just defeat them. We also need to have legislation that stops letting ACLU lawyers collect their fees from the victims of their legal attacks. I suspect Hitler is rolling in his grave from envy by not coming up with this when his supporters took legal action agaist the Jews.

By Dave

January 14, 2005 12:53 PM | Link to this

All you parents with the “Oh No, Not MY Child” syndrome. Have got to wake up and smell the coffee. Where were you when you first learned or heard about evolution or creationism. Are you a more than confused adult now? Will your child grow up being so confused just like you? At what age should your child hear about evolution or creationism? You wonder why the SAT scores are so low, the kids here are not allowed to learn anything.

By Kevin

January 14, 2005 12:53 PM | Link to this

Creationists take heed that thing between your shoulders is not just for sporting a NASCAR cap.

The problem with this country is that we are what my wife appropriately calls “lazy minded”. Instead of looking at facts we use our beliefs to shape the world around us. 40% of Americans still lazily think there are WMDs in Iraq because the administration believed there was. I bet 90% those people believe in creationism.

No one brought up the point that an author of one of the text books question testified against using the stickers. What about the author’s right to free speech?

What’s next with these stickers? Maybe Bush will put a sticker on the Constitution that says “That whole separation of church and state thing, that’s just for the non-Christians�.

By mit

January 14, 2005 12:55 PM | Link to this

you should all turn agnostic. this will solve everything. this is a secular country not a christian one. stop cramming that bible stuff down everyone’s throats, mind your own business, and quit coming to my door.
intelligent design has no proof, if so show it. YOU CAN’T!!! when are you little kids going to learn that GOD doesn’t shake the earth when an earthquake happens.
Christians don’t believe in evolution because they haven’t evolved to think for themselves. That’s left to the church to tell them what to do.

By Dan

January 14, 2005 12:55 PM | Link to this

Still waiting for someone to explain the incest necessary in the creationists belief. Was it Adam and his daughters, Eve and her sons or brothers and sisters.

By Joann

January 14, 2005 12:56 PM | Link to this

Since when did ‘calling a spade a spade’ become unconstitutional?

A theory it is, and a theory it will remain.

By Katie

January 14, 2005 12:56 PM | Link to this

oh no, Andy, I caught your sarcasm, but that doesn’t cover the fact that you are simple minded enough to be completely ignorant of proven scientific techniques. By the way, do some research before you argue.

By W R Burkett

January 14, 2005 12:56 PM | Link to this

I find it difficult to believe that this simple statement was found to be “unconstitutional”. The founding fathers all believed in a miraculous creation though their personal religious beliefs were as varied as ours are today. And yet today, our teachers are not allowed to express an opinion that there could be a power behind the formation of earth. What would the designers of our government think about a judicial system that is in essence drafting laws of their own to be applied in every state in this Union. Talk about unconstitutional!

By Anthony

January 14, 2005 12:57 PM | Link to this

Michael, those are not facts. You are romancing the subject.

To rationalize that since there are trees, there must be a creator, and that you god is therefore proved to be said creator, is perhaps the dumbest thing I have ever heard.

BAAAAAAAAAAH!

By Sylvia Barksdale

January 14, 2005 12:57 PM | Link to this

I have been a lifelong student of philosophy. In some form, I believe philosophy should be taught as early as grade school.

Philosophy teaches logic and reason and more that that, it gives us the ability to think for ourselves. In many instances, a philosophical outlook is developed and although what we believe may go against what the masses believe, we are much freer human beings.

What we know of evolution should be taught along with philosophy. I, personally do not believe that humans were equipped to answer the BIG question. Even with all our brain power; the splitting of the atom, etc., we are still as meek as the earthworm.

Millions of years ago, when man stood upright and began to walk on two feet, something resembling intelligence began to take hold. Man’s omnipotence refused to allow him to proceed without an answer to his being, therefore he created God. Eventually, fighting between the tribes took place and it hasn’t ceased since.

After all, how would we know anything about God if we didn’t make him?

By Anthony

January 14, 2005 12:58 PM | Link to this

Michael, those are not facts. You are romancing the subject.

To rationalize that since there are trees, there must be a creator, and that your god is therefore proved to be said creator, is perhaps the dumbest thing I have ever heard.

BAAAAAAAAAAH!

By Brent

January 14, 2005 12:58 PM | Link to this

I am paraphrasing this so here it goes…

The Fool hath said there is no God.

By richard

January 14, 2005 12:58 PM | Link to this

For all who doubt evolution - please ask yourself the spiritual question - why DID god create different species of plants, animals, and human races? What would be the point? The evidence is all around us that differences in species are required for survival. Aren’t we really arguing a timeline here? If we understand creationism symbolically then the importance is still there.

By JP

January 14, 2005 12:58 PM | Link to this

Theory: a plausible or scientifically acceptable general principle or body of principles offered to explain phenomena; a belief, policy, or procedure proposed or followed as the basis of action; an unproved assumption (Webster’s)

By Andy

January 14, 2005 12:59 PM | Link to this

Kevin, That comment about the NASCAR cap? Now that’s funny. See, us Christians have a sense of humor.

By Sean

January 14, 2005 01:01 PM | Link to this

David—I guess that whether these rulings are “anti-Christian” depends on your point of view. I think they are “pro-Constitution” in that they prevent the majority (and Cobb School Board—a government agency) from imposing their religious beliefs on others. I don’t think I understand your reference to “Marxists.” Additionally, ACLU lawyers usually don’t make a ton of money in their lawsuits and, even if they do, there isn’t any legislation that might stop the ACLU lawyers. The proposed legislation to curb attorney fees relates to personla injury lawyers, which the ACLU are not.

Even if Bush succeeds in having a lot of judges confirmed (are you aware that only 9-10 of his more than 200+ judge nominees were NOT confirmed) it won’t really change current law. First, lower court judges have to follow earlier Supreme Court rulings (so a judge in GA couldn’t overturn Roe v. Wade) and even confirming a judge doesn’t meant they will rule the way conservatives want (Souter is an example).

By Michael

January 14, 2005 01:02 PM | Link to this

Anthony, “dumbest thing I have ever heard”, That is exactly how I feel when I read your posts. At least we agree on something.

BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!

By Paul

January 14, 2005 01:03 PM | Link to this

Anthony,

An article about the well known atheist, Antony Flew, I mentioned: http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=315976

I’m not trying to convince you that any one religion is right (although it’s tempting), I’m trying to establish that a theory that can’t be replicated is still a theory. Tell me who has created life in a laboratory out of slime and some electric voltage? Our current view of the theory of evolution is different than what it was 20 years ago. What is being taught regarding evolution continues to change. So teach it as a THEORY. That’s all.

By Dianne

January 14, 2005 01:03 PM | Link to this

Alright - enough already.

I cannot believe how fast people can twist their views and tear others down as quick as can be in just a day. This has been a heated issue for years.

I see a huge line between evolutionists and creationists just in the readings of these blogs. However, bottom line - sometimes “neither the two shall meet”. I’ve had to have evolution shoved down my throat my entire schooling. Nothing else was taught and it was all taught as a fact. No other theories or concepts were even entertained.

I finally see that a tiny sticker stating that evolution is a theory is put on a text book and I think, “Hurray! Finally!” That’s not saying that the school HAS to teach creation; it’s just stating that the schools are admitting for the first time that it’s a THEORY.

Please stop tearing each other apart. Whether your an atheist, muslim, hindu, buddhist, jew, Christian, or of any other faith, tearing another down is not a solution. Just stirs up more hatred and we’ve got enough of it in this world.

The blogs are getting more and more vicious. It’s truly sad.

By Katie

January 14, 2005 01:07 PM | Link to this

This is hand-down the most ridiculous arguement I’ve ever heard. Only in Georgia, where for education we’re number 50 (or 49?) in the nation. Only in the Georgia (or the bible belt) would this be such a pointless debate. In the blue state I came from, (it was not my choice to move here so don’t even try that ‘go back’ speech) this wouldnt even be such an issue because of the blantant abundance of evidence for the theory of eolution and the complete lack of it for creationism.

By Sean

January 14, 2005 01:07 PM | Link to this

WR Burkett—just because the Founding Fathers believed in a creator doesn’t mean they would want religion taught in schools. In fact, the First Amendment has been interpreted to mean that tax payer money cannot be used to promote religion. Now, while this sticker may not have explicitly promoted religion it is impossible for people to say that it doesn’t promote a Christian point of view. If it didn’t promote a Christian point of view, why are all the Christians p** off? I doubt its because they are seriously worried about any scientific flaws related to evolution.

By Avrum Fine

January 14, 2005 01:10 PM | Link to this

Life after death is a theory.

By Dan

January 14, 2005 01:10 PM | Link to this

Diane makes a good point and although the anti christian political correct crowd has gotten way out of control this discussion is clearly on their side. Evolution is always referred to as a theory meaning it is the best explanation science can deduce at this point. To say it is theory not fact is redundant. For the rest of the crowd. The constitution bears no mention of the separtation of church and state. That is addressed in the first amendmant which states Congress shall make no law respecting any religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. Which means a public school should not put a sticker in a book based on a religions belief however it should not prohibit any town or public entity from celebrating as they see fit like nativity scenens or christmas trees etc. These activities are not laws and are not prohibited by the bill of rights

By Andy

January 14, 2005 01:11 PM | Link to this

Katie, I’m simple-minded? You picked up on that in just a few blog entries that I’ve made today? That’s not a lot of evidence upon which to base such a statement of fact. Your characterization of me shows that you’re one who makes assumptions. Not a very scientific practice you’ve implemented.

By Rob Williams

January 14, 2005 01:11 PM | Link to this

But…, if public schools don’t teach our children about God, who will?

By Anthony

January 14, 2005 01:12 PM | Link to this

Micheal,

Knowing that you believe that a tree is proof that your god created the world softens the blow of knowing that you think my posts are dumb.

Glad to see that you accept the fact that you are a mindless sheep..keep on BBAAAAAAAAH’ing!

By G.T.

January 14, 2005 01:13 PM | Link to this

So you will know where I stand, I am a Christian and believe in God. My first instinct is to strike out at the none believers, but then I have to smile. What does it matter what you or I think? Whatever you stand on the GOD (Master Designer, Allah, Yaweh, etc.), if those who say there is no GOD and there is not. Then no harm done, except to cause conflict among us living beings on earth. But if there is a GOD and he is the final JUDGE, what then………..

By Louis

January 14, 2005 01:16 PM | Link to this

The disclaimers reads:

* “This textbook contains material on evolution. Evolution is a theory, not a fact, regarding the origin of living things. This material should be approached with an open mind, studied carefully and critically considered.”*

Where is there any mention of Creationism, Christianity or any other Religion in this disclaimer?

To smite this disclaimer down based on Religion, is the Federal Government making a law against any religion!

This fight is not about Christianity or any other Religion, but about our basic rights that are Founding Fathers placed into the Constitution of the Unites States, which clearly states in the Tenth Amendment: * Whatever the States did not let the Feds do was left up to the States themselves*. This has been eroded by perverted decisions of the Supreme Court based on broadly interpreted readings of the Constitution of the Unites States in order to give the Federal Government more power.

Consider what Madison warned in 1792: Concerning the broad interpritation of the General Welfare Clause, by Alexander Hamilton. **If Congress can employ money indefinately to the �General Welfare� and are the sole and supreme judges of the general welfare, they may take care of Religion into their own hands; They may appoint techers in every State; County, and Parish, and pay them out of their Public treasury; They may take into their own hands the education of children establishing in like manner schools throughout the Union; they may assume the provision for the poor; they may undertake the regulation of all roads other than post-roads; in short everything, from the highest object of State Legislation down to the most minute object of Police, would be thrown under the Power of Congress.

Scarry when you look at what the “Government has implimented or has control of today� and even more in light of the “Home Land Security� cabinet position that is growing in POWER!.

Think this is about Religion….Think again folks and wake up… It is no longer the Redcoats that are coming…It is Congress itself!

By David W

January 14, 2005 01:16 PM | Link to this

Re: Rob Williams Most conservatives are not advocating God be taught in schools. All they want is an end to the hostile environment against Christians that would be prosecuted if it were any group favored by leftists.

By Rick

January 14, 2005 01:16 PM | Link to this

Dear Semi-erect primate ancestor, On behalf of the small population of realistic individuals that reside in the state of Georgia, thanks for evolving! Perhaps in a few more millenniums, the remainder of the brainwashed bible totters will take it upon themselves to enter the real world. You Rock! Sincerely, BigFoot

By Dave

January 14, 2005 01:18 PM | Link to this

Anthony,

Mindless Sheep? I use logic and facts not emotion like you or sheep. Let’s break down what you said since you have trouble focusing. Perhaps this is because you have A.D.D. ?

When you said, “just not when it is rammed down the throat of others.”

What Amendment says I do not have this right?

When you said, “What you believe in is the right to exercise Christianity, not the right to exercise religion.”

Oh so now your telling me what I believe. Since after all you know me better than I do. Can you prove this?

When you said, ” If someone was pushing to have the Koran read in schools, you and the rest of the hypocrites would go ballistic.”

Once again you are assuming that you know me better than I do? You know what they say about people that assume? I would only have issues with this if only the Koran is being taught, and nothing else. I welcome all religious point of views.

Now try and focus on the question I have asked you, and answer them. Why do you have to be so insulting when we have a debate? Perhaps its because you lack the intelligence to sort out facts and logic. You base all your arguments on emotion. Just like a Sheep.. Talk about the Pot calling the Kettle black.

By Sean

January 14, 2005 01:20 PM | Link to this

Dan—I disagree with the argument that its ok for a city to have public displays like the nativity (sort of—I actually think they are fine and they don’t bother me in the least—in fact, I like them). I think the argument is that once again they are use taxpayer’s money to pay for these sort of displays.

By Louis

January 14, 2005 01:20 PM | Link to this

What Madison warned about in 1792 has come to pass today! Washington has drifted so far from Constitutional Government of the People, that the question of the constitutionality of legislation, which is so central to the Eighteenth and nineteenth century debates, is no longer raised.

By Andy

January 14, 2005 01:21 PM | Link to this

Rick, now you’ve gone and done it! I going to tot (as you say) my Bible and go home and not play anymore. Shalom.

By Again

January 14, 2005 01:24 PM | Link to this

So, all of the religious zealots want religon taught in schools? Ok, how my my cousins Christian religon? A very small Christian domination. Firstly, all of your daughters would not be in school passed the sixth grade. His religon believes that women are to silent in church. Since all of life is being in church, they are to never have education where they would speak out in class (they have figured up to the sixth grade is safe), never speak out in the home, certainly not hold public office or have jobs. How would that be?

By Dan

January 14, 2005 01:25 PM | Link to this

Sean I suppose you could make that argument. But saying it is unconstitutional is incorrect. The bill of rights specifically says a law cannot be made. The government spends a lot of money on a lot of things that many people disagree with. Where does it end

By Susan

January 14, 2005 01:25 PM | Link to this

It amazes me that people are so willing to accept evolution as a fact. It is purely a theory — and one with some major gaps at that. If our textbooks can teach one theory, why not another? Creationism is mentioned in an historical text. If you don’t want it taught as science, how about as history? The fact that some of us believe in God as our creator does not automatically make us ignorant, nor does it mean we are living in another century. It simply means we have a faith that will not be moved.

By Dave

January 14, 2005 01:26 PM | Link to this

Steve,

When you said,

“YOU CAN’T PUSH YOUR RELIGION ON MY KID IN PULBIC SCHOOLS, PAID FOR WITH EVERYBODIES TAX DOLLARS. GET IT? GET A CLUE!!!”

Yes I can Steve! It is called the first Amendment. It is my right. Deal with it!

By Steve

January 14, 2005 01:30 PM | Link to this

Dave posted:

“YOU CAN’T PUSH YOUR RELIGION ON MY KID IN PULBIC SCHOOLS, PAID FOR WITH EVERYBODIES TAX DOLLARS. GET IT? GET A CLUE!!!�

Yes I can Steve! It is called the first Amendment. It is my right. Deal with it!

Dave are you should be able to push your religion on other people’s children in public schools?

By Dave

January 14, 2005 01:32 PM | Link to this

Richard,

Please explain to me how something can come out of nothing, but on the same token God cannot? LOL! The big bang is nothing but a “How” something was done. How do you know God was not behind the particles that just came out of no where? Something you should learn on this Earth is that everything must be created. They do not appear out of no where. For instance, a computer. Just think about it.

By Jay

January 14, 2005 01:32 PM | Link to this

Dave - quit twisting 1st Amed. for your own purposes -

No one is trying to surpress your free exercise of religion. You can have church as often as you want, you can pray any time you want, you can think about doing things in God’s name all you want, you can do good for others all you want. You can exercise your freedom of religion however you wish - you simply can’t do so at a government institution - public school.

What you can’t do in a PUBLIC school system setting is the following (just to name a few) 1) Pray (outloud) - no other religion can either 2) Tell other people their religion is not the true faith - same goes for everyone eles out there in religion land 3) Establish stickers or messages that seek to let others know that your religion exercises control over other views.

The first Ammendmant defends all of us against that type of behavior on a government institution for a very good reason - the country is not made up of only Christians … it is a melting pot.

Stop whining because the world will not devote itself to making you happy. Live your life how you wish religiously - just don’t expect anyone to support you when you seek to impose your will and religious views on others within the system of government.

Most of all stop using Christianity as a way to separate from others, judge others, and try to control the political system - that type of behavior is repugnant to God and you know it.

By Michael

January 14, 2005 01:32 PM | Link to this

Let’s get down to the heart of the matter. Evolution scares Christians. Why? Because it directly contradicts what the Bible says. And if you can question one aspect of the Bible, then why can’t you question others? So if God didn’t create the universe in six days, then maybe, just maybe it’s ok to be Gay. And maybe, just maybe I will not go to hell if I don’t give the Church ten percent of my money. And maybe, just maybe I am not doomed to a lifetime in Purgatory, simply because I happen to disagree with the drivel some pedophile in a dress tells me every Sunday.

If you want your child to learn about creationist theories in a science classroom, then send your child to a seminary. I prefer that my tax dollars be used to teach my children theories based on fact, not legend.

By Julie

January 14, 2005 01:34 PM | Link to this

While I personally have no trouble reconciling the concept of our species evolution under the guidance of our Creator, what I find most troubling about this whole issue is the fact that this issue was even heard in court. The Cobb County school board made a decision regarding curriculum, which is exactly what they were elected to do. They did this, presumably, by acting as a reflection of the wishes of their constituancy. If their actions are not in fact acceptable those they were elected to represent, then that should have been addressed at the ballot box, not by the bench. While I do not feel that the stickers are necessary, I also did not find them to be placing any undue duress on those who support either viewpoint. The dangerous trend to turn every issue into litigation will itself “evolve” into government by the courts. Goodbye checks and balances…

By Sean

January 14, 2005 01:34 PM | Link to this

Dan—you are right in what the Constitution says (or doesn’t) regarding the public nativity scene type of things. I think that over the years the Constitution (and First Amendment) has been interpreted to mean that you can’t have these types of displays. Whether expanding the Constitution is good or not is the real argument here. I think its ok to read the Constitution expansively, a lot of people don’t.

By susan

January 14, 2005 01:38 PM | Link to this

You can’t have it both ways - a theory is a theory, and discrimination is a two way street. You should not be able to teach one theory without teaching the other.

By nathan

January 14, 2005 01:38 PM | Link to this

Michel, I appreciate your kind response (11:20am). And I would argue that there is loads of evidence to back up what the Bible says. But don’t get me wrong, I have no interest in convincing you or others of the accuracy of the Bible. That’s not my job; my commission is to proclaim truth and let God do the rest. Like I quoted before…“Without faith it is impossible to please God�, so without an acceptance of things not seen with our eyes, we cannot begin to please God. Jesus actually answered this question several times throughout the gospels; the Jewish religious people demanded a sign from heaven to prove that He was truly the Christ that was prophesied about in the Old Testament. Jesus answered them over and over saying “an evil and adulterous generation requests a sign, and none will be given except the sign of the prophet Jonah� (meaning Jesus’ death and resurrection after 3 days…the same as Jonahs 3 days in the whale). Basically, we have all the evidence we could ever need. Jesus rose from the dead, and until that is disproved, you will have a hard time convincing the true Christians of believing a lie. You also mention that you believe in a higher power; I must ask then do you believe a god made this world and left us alone? Without any instructions, or reasoning, or hope for the evil that plaques our lives? If God had wanted to reveal Himself to His creation, then the Bible is a perfect tool to do that. Also, I must stress that God isn’t under obligation to inform us of anything. He created us; He has free will to do with His creation what He pleases. It is only by His grace that we even have the Bible! God is not proud of us for anything we do; He demands obedience to the laws He has set, anything less will receive eternal punishment. And you speak so candidly about maybe going to hell…have you any idea how angry God is with sinners? His wrath will go on forever and never be satisfied by the torment of those in hell. That’s a scary thought in my mind. Bottom line is that evolution doesn’t explain why evil is in this world, and why we are so inclined to do it. I mean, evil thoughts and actions plague every human being every day, even the redeemed. It is our nature to do evil, no matter how much we fight it we cannot stop sinning. Everyone deserves hell, it’s only by grace…not actions…that some will be saved (this is in conflict with the catholic teachings). I mean, you can’t even get a parking ticket and get off by consistently not getting one for the rest of your life. Therefore if you commit one sin, then it doesn’t matter how many good things you do to make up for it, you deserve punishment. This is documented extensively throughout the Bible, and the deep knowledge and insight that the Bible has in this area is far more than any human could’ve come up with.

By christy

January 14, 2005 01:39 PM | Link to this

Kat~ The problem is not teaching evolution, the problem is teaching it as a FACT rather than a THEORY…that’s what the sticker was all about. There are WAY more theories behind the beginning of the earth besides just evolution and Creationism, and they should all be addressed even if just in passing. For example, “While evolution is backed by many scientifically proven tests, there have also been many scientifically proven tests that discredit the THEORY. There are also widely held beliefs by various religious factions that the origin of the earth is based on a higher power or god.” The end…that’s all…nothing specific to Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Zorfism (hehe)…just something to tell kids “Hey, this is a cool theory, but keep your mind open because it isn’t the only one.” Got the message now?

By Anthony

January 14, 2005 01:39 PM | Link to this

Dave:

I was unaware that sheep were well known for their emotional argumentative methods. Interesting.

If you are going to sit there and say that christians would not be up in arms over the Koran being read in schools, you are either lying or ignorant.

There is no amendment saying you cannot ram your fantasy beliefs down my throat. I am TELLING you that I will not permit it. Get it?

I find your comments about logic amusing. I am concerned only with FACTS, something I have yet to hear from you silly christians. Show me FACTS about your god. C’mon….don’t skirt the subject. GIVE ME FACTS. Show me some proof, sheep boy. This is where christians start singing that bad George Michael song….”Oh you gotta have faith, faith, faith!” Spare me.

My argument is based on THE FACTS PRESENTED TO ME, not by emotion. No person has EVER PROVED THERE IS A GOD, and no one ever will, but that won’t stop SHEEP like you from trying to recruit, now will it?

How’s the weather in FantasyLand? Tell “god” I said hey.

By Jeffrey

January 14, 2005 01:40 PM | Link to this

First, evolution is a theory just like Intelligent Design. Secondly, all the sticker stated was that Evolution is a theory and not a fact. Which is the truth. So, this religious how? Got to love the paranoid and easily intimidated athiests.

By Ellen

January 14, 2005 01:40 PM | Link to this

Unfortunately, somewhere during our evolutionary development, the “unfittest” decided they’d like to survive too - and DID. There is overwhelming proof of this in the comments from those of you who can’t get beyond “In the beginning …”

By Lozen

January 14, 2005 01:43 PM | Link to this

I have to tell you fundamentalist christians (not all christians) who are posting on here that you really scare me. It doesn’t sound as if you are well educated but you think you have the answers to everything and everyone else is wrong. There was a post on here by someone who actually believes men and women don’t have the same number of ribs! You seem to believe we all should live our lives ignoring scientific discoveries and base our lives on a book written thousands of years ago by uneducated people who had no conception of physics, geometry, geography, the solar system, anthropology, etc. Those people still believed the earth was flat, the earth was the center of everything and and the sun revolved around the earth! Galileo was excommunicated and came close to being burned at the stake by the church because, based on his scientific studies, he disagreed with the dogma of the church. Thousands in Europe were burned at the stake because they didn’t accept established church dogma. You also seem to think those of us who don’t believe in your version of religion (millions of jews, buddhists, hindus, atheists, muslims, even other less fundamentalist christians on this planet) are going to burn for eternity in your hell. I don’t believe that. I don’t believe unquestioning belief in a jewish rabbi who may have lived thousands of years ago is the only way to a hypothetical heaven. You think I’m going to hell because I just cannot, after much studying and deliberation, believe as you do. I don’t understand why an all powerful god would condemn humanity because a mythical couple ate an apple and disobeyed him but then change his mind later and decide that he had to impregnate a teenager with his son/himself and create a bloody sacrifice of his son/himself in order to save the people he had condemned. It just doesn’t make any sense and that’s why I don’t believe it! “The bible says” is all you seem to be able to say but there are many holy books besides the bible. It’s not because we don’t want to be moral people; it’s because we are not able to accept your version of truth for reality. There are millions of moral, loving, good people who are not christians. There may be some higher power but I don’t know what it is and I don’t believe you know what it is either. The bible (as one holy book among many) does not have a monopoly on truth. After studying many years, the bible, the origins of christianity, and other religions, I see that Roman rulers also claimed that they were fathered by a god and an earthly mother. The Egyptian rulers had many gods until Akhenaten decided there was only one god. It’s very interesting that the Egyptian Moses then taught the Hebrews there was one god and gave them the commandments. The hebrews kept trying to return to their old gods all through their desert wandering and Moses’ god (according to the old testament) kept destroying them for disobeying him. If you are going to quote the bible then quote the passage in which Jesus told the disciples his message was for god’s chosen hebrew people and not for the gentiles! Quote what Jesus said about removing the log from your own eye before you worry about the speck in someone else’s eye. Quote his directive to love your neighbor. If Jesus is your guide why do you spend so much time quoting the old testament with its vengeful, jealous god and ignoring what Jesus said?

By Louis

January 14, 2005 01:43 PM | Link to this

Think this is about Religion….Think again folks and wake up… It is no longer the Redcoats that are coming…It is Congress itself! The disclaimers reads: * “This textbook contains material on evolution. Evolution is a theory, not a fact, regarding the origin of living things. This material should be approached with an open mind, studied carefully and critically considered.�* Where is there any mention of Creationism, Christianity or any other Religion in this disclaimer? This fight is not about Christianity or any other Religion, but about our basic rights that are Founding Fathers placed into the Constitution of the Unites States, which clearly states in the Tenth Amendment: * Whatever the States did not let the Feds do was left up to the States themselves*. This has been eroded by perverted decisions of the Supreme Court based on broadly interpreted readings of the Constitution of the Unites States in order to give the Federal Government more power.

The Framers of the Constitution were well aware of the tendency for power to concentrate and expand. In 1825, Jefferson predicted what has happened in the last fifty years. “If all power were to be concentrated in the federal government. Checks and balances amoung the Excecutive, Legislative and Judicial branches, a prominent feature of the Constitution, offer little guarantee of limited government, since these three branches could unite against the States and The People. Now also take into account what Madison warned in 1792: “Concerning the broad interpritation of the General Welfare Clause, by Alexander Hamilton�. **If Congress can employ money indefinately to the �General Welfare� and are the sole and supreme judges of the general welfare, they may take care of Religion into their own hands; They may appoint techers in every State; County, and Parish, and pay them out of their Public treasury; They may take into their own hands the education of children establishing in like manner schools throughout the Union; they may assume the provision for the poor; they may undertake the regulation of all roads other than post-roads; in short everything, from the highest object of State Legislation down to the most minute object of Police, would be thrown under the Power of Congress. Scarry when you look at what the “Government has implimented since the “New Deal� and Personal Income Taxes. Now also consider what is being done with the new Department of Homeland Security. What Madison & Jefferson warned has come to pass today! Washington has drifted so far from a Constitutional Government of the People, that the question of the constitutionality of legislation, which is so central to the eighteenth and nineteenth century debates, is no longer raised. ACLU: Anti-Constititional Law United to over throw the Government from with in. Throw a frog in a pot of hot water and hill will try to jump out, but throw the same frog into a pot of cool water and slowly turn up the heat and you have a dead boiled frog. The Feds are coming… The Feds are coming… The Feds are coming…

By Bonnie Cochran

January 14, 2005 01:45 PM | Link to this

.First off if Evolution is pushed on my children in public school then I as a tax payer am directing my taxes to pay for the teaching of a theory that is contrary to our beliefs and harmful to my children and family, the same as teaching them that sex among other things is good for them any time they so choose. This sticker had nothing to do with religion and could not influence a child anymore than a friend or aquaintance could, but as a teacher they look up to us for direction and listen to us as authorities therefore what we represent has great influence on their minds and in their lives. Since a public teacher cannot teach or tell a child anything that remotally resembles Christianity then evolution is seen as fact and supported by the school authorities. What we need here is not freedom from religion but freedom of religion and not separation from church and state but separation of church and state. The latter was to ensure that the State or government could not come in and dictate what church you had to attend (such as the Church of England) and what rituals you had to follow such as baptism at birth or at recognition. But like everything else we have allowed someone else with a personal aggenda to change that definition and therfore change the sactity of our families and lives.

By Bonnie Cochran

January 14, 2005 01:46 PM | Link to this

.First off if Evolution is pushed on my children in public school then I as a tax payer am directing my taxes to pay for the teaching of a theory that is contrary to our beliefs and harmful to my children and family, the same as teaching them that sex among other things is good for them any time they so choose. This sticker had nothing to do with religion and could not influence a child anymore than a friend or aquaintance could, but as a teacher they look up to us for direction and listen to us as authorities therefore what we represent has great influence on their minds and in their lives. Since a public teacher cannot teach or tell a child anything that remotally resembles Christianity then evolution is seen as fact and supported by the school authorities. What we need here is not freedom from religion but freedom of religion and not separation from church and state but separation of church and state. The latter was to ensure that the State or government could not come in and dictate what church you had to attend (such as the Church of England) and what rituals you had to follow such as baptism at birth or at recognition. But like everything else we have allowed someone else with a personal adgenda to change that definition and therfore change the sactity of our families and lives.

By sweiseger

January 14, 2005 01:47 PM | Link to this

As Christians why do we think the creator and sustainer of this universe needs us to defend Him in any way. He is the Alpha and the Omega, there is no time with Him all things are possible so what’s the argument about? There are homeless and hungry children who need our help in a meaningful concrete way let us stop these silly arguments and get busy helpping each other…

By johnson

January 14, 2005 01:51 PM | Link to this

I’m a Christian - I’m a victim! I’m a Christian - I’m a victim!

Get over it! Quit griping about evolultion. The theory may have holes, but it’s better than any proof Creation can muster.

By Scott

January 14, 2005 01:52 PM | Link to this

This is a sound decision…People need to realize that their religion does not belong in everyone else’s face. W

hat God you pray to, believe in or worship is your personal preference and between you and your god.

Not the rest of society…

By Scott

January 14, 2005 01:52 PM | Link to this

This is a sound decision…People need to realize that their religion does not belong in everyone else’s face.

What God you pray to, believe in or worship is your personal preference and between you and your god.

Not the rest of society…

By Brian Curtis

January 14, 2005 01:54 PM | Link to this

If your religion teaches that the world is flat, then the science your kids learn in school will violate your beliefs. To which I can only say, boo-hoo. Too bad.

The purpose of the science curriculum is to teach SCIENCE, not to conform to whatever religious beliefs you choose to promote. And if your religion can’t handle science, it’s your problem to resolve the difference—not the school’s.

For the last time, evolution and creationism are not “two theories.” Creationism is not a theory at all; it’s a religious belief. It’s no more a scientific theory than it is a math equation.

You want to teach your kids religion? You’re free to do so… but only to YOUR kids, and only on YOUR property. Public schools are not your personal pulpit.

By Chris B.

January 14, 2005 01:55 PM | Link to this

I support their decision. The theory of evolution is just that, a theory. Similar to the thousands of other theories found in science. A science professor once said that nothing is ever proven 100%. We don’t post warning stickers about other widely accepted scientific theories, we should not with evolution either.

By Brian Curtis

January 14, 2005 01:57 PM | Link to this

P.S…. Did you know the schools are pushing the periodic table of elements on your kids too? Horrors! What if your religion only recognizes four elements? Clearly your rights are being violated!

By Bob

January 14, 2005 02:04 PM | Link to this

Science says one thing; one specific religious sect says another.

There are no two scientific sides to this issue. The Theory of Evolution explains all the actual evidence. Creationism does not explain any of the evidence, it only asserts a supernatural cause.

If your theory includes “…and then a miracle occurs”, it cannot be a scientific theory. It is religious dogma.

Don’t get me wrong. It is very okay to believe a religious dogma. Most people do. However, don’t call it science; call it your religious belief.

By Gordon

January 14, 2005 02:06 PM | Link to this

So many of the posts here from the Darwinists, if I may use that term, seem to be concerned with facts versus beliefs. I could not agree more. Let’s suspend our beliefs for a minute and just deal with facts. The fact is that Darwinism, evolution, or whatever you want to call it, is based on the idea that all living creatures are ancestors of a common ancestor that lived long ago. And this theory, as time goes by, is simply not standing up to scientific research, especially in the last 10 or 15 years. Kevin and others say that evolution is a theory supported by facts, but he is just dead wrong. Almost all people believe that organisms within a single species change over time - this is called “Descent with Modification” or micro-evolution. But macro-evolution, the idea that one species can “mutate” to another, or the idea that life itself, even a single cell, can be created by simple natural processes, has been almost completely debunked. But many are too lazy to go out and find this out for themselves. It’s just easier to call other people sheep and to have a smug certainty about your own opinions. It was so easy for Darwinists when it looked like the facts pointed in their direction. Now things aren’t going so well, and most aren’t even informed enough to know what has happened in the scientific community recently. I’m not trying to prove there is or isn’t a god, I’m just trying to point out that if you believe macro-evolution is supported by facts you are misinformed. I couldn’t care less about the sticker. Macro-evolution shouldn’t be taught because it just isn’t true.

By Anthony

January 14, 2005 02:09 PM | Link to this

Lozen:

Awesome post. Very well said.

By Luvs

January 14, 2005 02:10 PM | Link to this

Hmmmmmmmm Maybe they shouldn’t teach science or religion in schools - I mean when you really break it down why should one be tought and not the other? Who gets to decide whats REALLY right or wrong? Everybody screams for the seperation of church and state - but the reality of it is simple: Without religion you have no simple foundation for even basic laws and without the state you have no way to organize the community to run. Religion is a basic need - everyone needs something to believe in AND The state is needed so that we can expand and grow as one. Thank about that for a few….

By Katie

January 14, 2005 02:11 PM | Link to this

To tell you the truth, Brian, I’m still fuming over them teaching my kids that magma builds up and explodes out of volcanoes and not the truth that its really the fires of Hell warning heathens to follow jesus.

By Brent

January 14, 2005 02:12 PM | Link to this

The reason people are so willing to accept evolution is that they do not want to be held accountable to a higher being.

By Dave

January 14, 2005 02:14 PM | Link to this

Steve,

If you do not like it, then change the Amendment.

By mit

January 14, 2005 02:15 PM | Link to this

this sticker was put in there to appease christians who got a bunch of signatures. this sticker is religious. it might not say directly but it sure does indirectly. it states a lie, that evolution is a theory, not fact. evolution is fact face it.

to all the christians: jesus was a LIBERAL, Who was executed for treason against the Romans, and who taught against the establishment of the will of those in power. The is NO proof in the written historical record that he even existed. Just like there will be no record of me thousands of years from now.

By Randy

January 14, 2005 02:16 PM | Link to this

I WANT TO CONGRADULATE THE CHRISTIANS HERE, YOU ARGUMENTS ARE SO MUCH MORE INTELLIGENT. BUT TRUTH IS ON YOUR SIDE!

By Anthony

January 14, 2005 02:17 PM | Link to this

Luvs said: “Without religion you have no simple foundation for even basic laws…Religion is a basic need - everyone needs something to believe in.”

I’m speechless. What a retarded thing to say.

By Randy

January 14, 2005 02:19 PM | Link to this

THE CHRISTIANS HAD 2300 SIGNATURES ON THE ORIGINAL DOCUMENT TO PUT THE *, THE LAWSUIT TO GET RID OF THE * had like 7 or 8 SIGNATURES. THAT SHOULD TELL YOU SOMETHING.

By Anthony

January 14, 2005 02:21 PM | Link to this

Hey Dave,

I am still waiting for you to provide proof of the existence of your god. Is this all too “emotional” for you? Cmon, sheep boy, let’s get down to it.

By ed king

January 14, 2005 02:21 PM | Link to this

First of all, you don’t have to be a religious fanatic to believe that Darwin’s theory has problems. I rarely go to church. Ironically, it seems I read something every month in this newspaper that debunks some part of this theory. And, I see nothing wrong with approaching any theory with an OPEN MIND, studying it carefully, and critically considering it. Doesn’t that sound more like the mantra of the left wing godless heathen.

By Derrick

January 14, 2005 02:22 PM | Link to this

Science and religion can co-exist. It’s good to see that Georgia is finally starting to grasp the concept.

By Coree

January 14, 2005 02:22 PM | Link to this

Since the First Amendment has been brought up, maybe one should read it first.

First Amendment - Religion and Expression

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

If I am not mistaken it states you are free to EXPRESS, but it does not state you a Free to Impose your Faith on Others.

By steve

January 14, 2005 02:23 PM | Link to this

Bonnie said:

What we need here is not freedom from religion but freedom of religion and not separation from church and state but separation of church and state.

????????????????

No you’re starting to understand!

Just get superstition out of schools!

By Dave

January 14, 2005 02:25 PM | Link to this

Jay,

When you said, “you simply can’t do so at a government institution - public school.

What you can’t do in a PUBLIC school system setting is the following (just to name a few) 1) Pray (outloud) - no other religion can either 2) Tell other people their religion is not the true faith - same goes for everyone eles out there in religion land 3) Establish stickers or messages that seek to let others know that your religion exercises control over other views.”

Yes I can do that. Its called my 1st Amendment right. Just because I have a religious point of view does not mean that the governement edorces it as the state religion Jay. What law are you talking about? Pleae enlighten me? It would only be a violation if the Government established and endorced one religion only.

By Randy

January 14, 2005 02:27 PM | Link to this

ANTHONY, IF YOU ARE BREATHING AIR, GOD PROVIDED IT. THINK ABOUT IT, THE UNIVERSE CAME INTO EXISTANCE AT SOME POINT(HOWEVER LONG AGO THAT WAS), THINGS DON’T APPEAR OUT OF THIN AIR(PHYSICS AND REASON)WITHOUT THE HELP OF A SUPERNATURAL BEING(GOD) SO A CREATOR ABSOLUTELY EXISTS!!!!! MOST PEOPLE CAN REASON THATS WHY 96% OF AMERICANS BELIEVE IN A CREATOR. THINK IT THROUGH!!!!

By Marque

January 14, 2005 02:27 PM | Link to this

It is quite ironic that the poeple that are most upset of this are not the Christians, but those who are against Christians. When people feel threatened or feel pushed into a corner because they lack the capacity to properly state their point of view, they usually resort to name-calling. So far I have seen those who don’t beleive in God do the name calling. Just because we see things differently than you does not make us ignorant, dumb or moronic. We operate on a different set of laws. I really don’t mind creationism not being taught in a science class. Maybe it belongs in a philosophy class. But you know what? If it were proposed that religion be allowed in Public schools as an elective, these same people would still protest it under the guise of the establishment clause, which is grossly misinterpreted.

Some of you have said that there are no fact to support creationism. Well, that is not entirely true. True Christians are able to see the evidence of God manifested in theor own lives. I practice what the Bible teaches and not once has it been proven wrong. My evidence for my belief in creationism is my life and what has transpired in my life as a result of the realtionship I have with Christ. The things I speak of are only known to those who are willing to apply the principles of the Bible. It just like I could tell you that there is gold in the Sahara, but until you see it for yourself, you will not truly know.

People who call Christians names such as ignorant, stupid, blind sheep, etc just means that you have not experienced what we have experienced. Let’s not resort to name-calling because someone has beliefs just as strong as what you believe. I will let the way I live my life draw people to Christ. I dont expect the school to teach my kids, but I also dont want the public schools to tear down what I’m trying to build in my kids, which is what I’m seeing more and more.

By Marshall Hall

January 14, 2005 02:27 PM | Link to this

Evolutionism is the “creation scenario” of all pagan religions—notably mystic Kabbalism—which is supported by taxpayer’s money and is unConstitutional. If students were given the scientific facts—II Law of Thermodynamics, the Law of Biogenesis, etc.—evolution mythology would be exposed as the psuedo-science it is in a matter of weeks.

By Randy

January 14, 2005 02:32 PM | Link to this

ANYONE WHO IS ARGUING ON THE SIDE OF MACRO-EVOLUTION IS FIGHTING A LOSE/LOSE BATTLE. YOU LOSE EITHER WAY.

By Michael

January 14, 2005 02:33 PM | Link to this

To ed king,

You are exactly correct. Rational people are perfectly capable of learing about, and intelligently discussing theories, even those of differing viewpoints. Unfortunately however, most religious fundamentalists (of all relgions) are far from rational.

That is why this decision is so important. It closes the floodgate Christians have been trying to open for years. If you allow the teaching creationism along with evolution in public schools, it’s only a matter of time before they try to teach ONLY creationism. From that point, it’s only a matter of time before being a Jew, Muslim, Hindu or anything else non-christian becomes against the law. Yes, that may be a bit melodramatic, but it has happened before and it can easily happen again.

By Coree

January 14, 2005 02:33 PM | Link to this

You know what I find amazing is this statement.

“We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.”

It does not say anything about Religion or Science. It starts out with “WE the people of the United States” The consitution has very powerful words, but it is really sad that no one reads them are trys to understand the meaning behind those words.

As a society, we have lost touched with a great deal of things. We have the right to choose “Freedom” by forcing schools to teach said subjects, this is not Freedom, this is Dictating.

I read an earlier statement that if schools can’t teach about god then who. That is for the Church and the Parents Responsiblity not the Public School. I have said it once and I will say it again, if you want your child to learn about god then Public School is not the place for them. Oh wait, with the price of most Private Schools it is very hard to do this, so you feel that God should be taught to the public. Sorry you can’t force someone to learn about the Christian Belief nor can you Force someone to learn about the Jewish Belief.

Also, as I sit hear and read all of these posts the one thing that stands out in my mind is something my 10th Grade English Teacher taught me. The only thing that seperats us from one another is our Blood Type, more specific our DNA. It is not our Race, the Color of our Skin, our religion, none of that, it is our Blood. Tisk tisk, but I guess none of that really maters, because we are always going to have those who believe and those who don’t and why is that, because it is a Right, a Choice, a Freedom and why, it is not because “God” died for our sins it is because Men, Women and Children have died to give these Right’s to us.

Now sit and think about that and debate all you want and do what you will, but this conversation is as old as the dawn of time and will never end.

By mit

January 14, 2005 02:34 PM | Link to this

gordon, please inform me of new evidence disputing macro evolution.
Where do you get your information, I have never read a paper in a scientific journal that disputes any aspect of evolution but instead increasing evidence for it. yet you say there is evidence against it, where? Single-cell formation through natural processes have multiple hypotheses. None of them debunk evolution.

By Bob Ramsey

January 14, 2005 02:38 PM | Link to this

“I got what I wanted.” -Jeffrey Selman

How can one man get his wish, against the desire of so many others?

What you afraid of? Creationism explains everything to me, how and why we are here. I am satisfied in that.

Ok, evolutionists, how did we get here? You can’t expect me to believe such a idiotic theory. What started evolution? You can’t answer those questions. The problem also is you guys who only accept evolution think you are “intellectual” for believing that. Where did intellect come from? The conscience? Give me a break!

By Anthony

January 14, 2005 02:38 PM | Link to this

Randy,

You spew the same moronic diatribe as the other christian sheep…

Simply saying that because we cannot explain where the earth came from, that your god therefore HAD to create it, follows absolutely no reason or logic.

You seem obsessed with numbers. Because 96 percent of blah blah blah believes in blah blah blah proves nothing. One hundred percent of people used to believe that the world was flat.

That would be like assuming that because you have posted here more than anyone else has (a fact I am certain you are proud of…lol) that what you say makes any sense at all…It simply means that you are even more brainwashed (and I suspect a tad bit retarded) than the other sheep here.

P.S. You spell so well! Let me guess, you are a product of the Georgia Public School System, right?

By Doctor Atlantis

January 14, 2005 02:40 PM | Link to this

Evolution is a fact. Theories exist to explain the processes of this real and natural pheonmena.

I don’t want my valuable tax dollars wasted on watering down science. I believe we should give vouchers to let fundamentalists send their children to special schools where they teach them that God creates everything. Where any mystery can be solved by saying, “God made it happen, and it is not for us to understand how.” Sure, these kids won’t be able to be biologists, but realistically you don’t need a strong foundation in science to sling a damn fine burger of the finest angus cattle.

Warning! This post contains information about HAMBURGERS. Belief that HAMBURGERS come from cattle is a theory, not a fact. This post should be approached carefully, critically, and topped with a hearty dollop of mayo and mustard.

[Helpful Stickers for Cobb County] (http://www.swarthmore.edu/NatSci/cpurrin1/textbookdisclaimers/)

By Brian Curtis

January 14, 2005 02:42 PM | Link to this

And it’s comments like the “law of biogenesis” that demonstrate how desperately we need some solid science education in our schools.

Look, folks: I’ll make it simple for you. Do you want to teach “competing scientific theories” alongside evolution? Fine. Then provide some!

The bible, for all its virtues, is not a scientific theory. Creationism does not qualify as a scientific theory. Intelligent design is not a scientific theory. So what, exactly, should be taught alongside evolution?

If any creationists could answer that question—or would admit that they can’t—then we could dispense with this “competing theories” nonsense and acknowledge the REAL issue: some Christians just don’t like evolutionary theory because they think it conflicts with their religious beliefs.

Well, first of all, IT DOESN’T. So why are people so bent out of shape about trying to overthrow and “disprove” Darwinism? Like every other scientific concept and principle, evolution says nothing about god. Zip. Zero. Zilch. So why the outcry? Why the hysterical insistence that evolution needs to be discredited, demoted, or otherwise damaged in order to “defend your faith”?

If your faith is threatened by basic science, then banishing science won’t fix the problem. Evolution is supported by evidence; as a result, it’s taught in science classes as a part of scientific knowledge.

Stuff you learn from the Bible is NOT scientific knowledge and obviously doesn’t belong in a science class. Or a trigonometry class. Or a Spanish class. Or GYM class, for that matter.

By John black

January 14, 2005 02:43 PM | Link to this

Completely lost.

By Tom

January 14, 2005 02:43 PM | Link to this

These stickers did not say “God is the only truth”. This whole thing is silly - a silly sticker and silly extension of the Establishment clause.

This judge’s decision was based more in personal bias against those who implemented the stickers, rather than any offense brought on by the stickers themselves. To me this was not an Establishment clause issue even in a liberal interpretation, but rather an excuse to hammer fundamentalists.

I think the pendulum has swung so far to the left now, that school boards are losing their ability to set curriculum. What if the school board simply decided that teaching evolution was ‘too controversial’ for the community - based purely on a (secular) board’s analysis of the whole situation.

No doubt the ACLU would and our (activist) judges would find a way to stretch the ever-extending reach of the Establishment clause to allow the court’s to being dictating curriculum.

Mmmm - court ordered classes. Maybe they could just wrap all this up with a “Religion is a bunch of stupid lies” class.

By Dana

January 14, 2005 02:44 PM | Link to this

My children were educated in Christian schools but now attend Public High Schools

Their test scores in Science were suffering as a direct result of being only taught in Christian school how evolution is wrong and a myth

I will teach my Children religion morals and ethics at home as the Government does not have a good history of doing anything right for long

I do not want my children to learn that the world is small and that theirs are the only true spiritual beliefs They have reached an age of understanding and it is with hope and faith that I know that they will make good decisions on their spiritual lives

I don’t want religious ideas taught in school and I would prefer to not have Algebra in Church

By Dave

January 14, 2005 02:45 PM | Link to this

Anthony,

First off your a Liberal(which translates you into idiot category).
Therefore, you can not stay focus on a single issue for more than 10 seconds. Furthermore, there is no point in debating someone that cannot answer one of my questions. Instead you play this game of answering a question with a question.

You know I use to think just like you not too long ago until I did some research. It did not happen over night. It was a slow metamorphous. Hopefully, you will do the same.

By Tom

January 14, 2005 02:45 PM | Link to this

After reading all these postings I came to a startling conclusion. I did not realize there were so many learned people in the Preach State, forgive me, the Peach State! These are the postings of constitutional scholars, degreed theologians, and strong candidates for the role of the Scarecrow, if the Wizard of Oz is ever re-cast! Few understand that freedom of religion also means freedom from religion. Few know why Roger Williams came to this country? The evolution issue boils down to letting schools teach without the influence of any theological position being promoted or endorsed by a governmental body or activist group. The judge made the correct decision! Some scream that the answer lies in putting prayer back in schools. Folks, it never left! Shockingly, students are praying in Georgia schools at this very moment. They are praying for answers to a math quiz or to win tonight’s basketball game. I would ask how many of these “posters” regularly volunteer in the schools, take an active role in their child’s education or even regularly read to their children. Rodney King may have said it best when he offered the thought of “why can’t we all just get along?” I would hope your “posters” would stop “posturing” and learn to love each other just a little bit more. All the “posters” and this isssue pale in comparison to the nearly 200,000 people who perished in the Southeast Asia tsunami.

By Neil Franklin

January 14, 2005 02:47 PM | Link to this

I’m very disappointed but not shocked with the way the judiciary is constantly finding for the few who are becoming more and more. For those who look around and think all of this was produced by a “Big Bang” and then just evolved, I feel sorry for as Hades isn’t getting any cooler. They evidentally don’t even stop to think how long eternity is. Belief in creationism is not a religion. Religion is being a Reformed Protestant, Catholic, Hindu, Muslim, Jew, etc. Have any of the evolutionists ever thought about what there was before the Big Bang? You cannot make SOMETHING out of NOTHING!

By Ellen

January 14, 2005 02:49 PM | Link to this

After reading so many of these comments I had to go back and “re-read” the label that was placed in the textbook. No part of what was printed mentioned Creationism or Religion. “Evolution is a theory not a fact” - true. What part of “study carefully and critically consider” is so threatening to so many people. What are so many of you afraid of?

By Nathan

January 14, 2005 02:49 PM | Link to this

Hey doddtony@hotmail.com, you’re completely lost. Your comments don’t hurt anyone but yourself. Go to bed tonight and think long and hard about what you’re here for, and what happens when you die. I bet you draw a blank. Better yet, I bet you won’t even think about it, because it’s too unknown for you. Let’s just hope that there’s no afterlife. I’m not hating or condemning, but just making a point.

You have no hope.

By Gordon

January 14, 2005 02:50 PM | Link to this

Mit,

Here are a few:

Denton, Michael “Evolution: A Theory In Crisis” Well, Jonathan “Icons of Evolution” Smith, Quentin “Theism, Atheism and Big Bang Cosmology” Behe, Michael “Darwin’s Black Box”. There are many, many, more. There is evidence in the areas of cosmology, physics, astronomy, and biochemistry against evolution.

I urge you to investigate. People on both sides seemed so sure, and I didn’t want to argue either way unless I had something to back my opinions up. I will never pretend to have all the answers, but you don’t have to go very far down this road before it becomes obvious which side is really based on mythology. Remember, I’m not trying to prove the existence of God (that’s WAY out of my league), but it doesn’t take much to find out that macro-evolution just doesn’t stand up to scrutiny.

Happy hunting!

By Steven

January 14, 2005 02:51 PM | Link to this

What makes this country what it is has much to do with the separation of church and state. Do you know what happens when that division goes away, as some in Cobb county would like: it’s called Iran or Syria or the Taliban.

By Sam Miller

January 14, 2005 02:52 PM | Link to this

Here comes the boss, Get back to work!

By Bob

January 14, 2005 02:53 PM | Link to this

To Gordon (2:06pm).

Sorry, you are mistaken. Over the last 15 years, evolution continues to be even more supported by all the new evidence. Nothing in modern biology can be fully understood without going back to the Scientific Theory of Evolution.

However, you still don’t have to believe it. And if you’re not doing genetic or biology scientific research, who cares what you believe. But it is supported by the facts of biology. Talk to any leading biologist or genentic researcher if you doubt my statement.

By Warning_The_Earth_Is_Flat

January 14, 2005 02:55 PM | Link to this

As a Cobb County taxpayer, I have a modest proposal. Can we please deduct the cost of the stickers, their insertion into the textbooks, and the concomitant legal expenses from the salaries of the school administrators who hatched this ridiculous plan?

By Trey Bowing

January 14, 2005 02:55 PM | Link to this

Basic Question- “Is the statement on the sticker true?”

What are you so afraid of?

By Allan

January 14, 2005 02:55 PM | Link to this

Evolution is a fact. Natural selection, the method whereby living things evolve, is a theory. Anyone who believes differently is either uneducated or misled.

Although there is a fractional possibility that apples may float up from trees instead of fall, it does not mean that we should give that possibility equal time in the classroom to the established Theory of Gravity.

Btw, I’m a conservative.

By Doctor Atlantis

January 14, 2005 02:56 PM | Link to this

Special shout out to Tom: Welcome to the Internet!

Religions are intollerant of opposing ideas, hence all those pesky wars in the Middle East for the past few hundred years… Today is a day for celebration! If you can jump and clap your hands for joy, thank evolution.

Q: “But I’m confused? If evolution is true, doesn’t that mean there is no God?”

A: “No! Of course there is a loving God out there who cares for each of us deeply, and is willing to suspend the laws of physics to protect us from harm as he did recently in Indonesia, California, Sumatra, - er, wait a minute…”

Warning! This post contains information about pixie dust. Pixie dust is a theory, not a fact and should be approached critically, cautiously, and with an electric stick.

By Adam

January 14, 2005 02:57 PM | Link to this

Dave,

I am not sure how you decided that Anthony is a liberal, but you must be saying that you are a wingnut. When nothing else fails, call someone a liberal - like that really hurts. BTW, Eve says keep your rosaries off her ovaries.

By Victor Watts

January 14, 2005 02:58 PM | Link to this

The Da Vinci Code is so deceiving to people ignorant enough to accept.

By Anne

January 14, 2005 03:00 PM | Link to this

Dr. Atlantis and others who spend so much time trying to put down anyone who would choose to believe in God. I just ate a piece of delicious candy… tell me, how did it taste? What did it taste like? What does it remind you of? You mean you can’t answer my questions. You mean you don’t trust that it was delicious. I’m not surprised. You also will NEVER understand God and those who believe in Him because you’ve never “tasted” Him. You don’t know what He is like because you’ve never experienced Him and there’s a good chance â€â€? based on your incendiary and injurious comments â€â€? that you’ll never open your mind enough to experience God. And one day, you’ll taste death and your death will never end. Although it’s your choice, how sad it is that you may never know the overwhelming joy I feel through my relationship with my Savior, Jesus Christ. You may never realize there can be life after you leave this world and that death will not defeat those of us who have trusted Jesus Christ, the Son of God, as Savior! One day, you’ll have your evidence, but it will be to late. You have only ONE chance to ask Jesus to forgive you and this ONE LIFE you’re now living is that chance!

By Dave

January 14, 2005 03:01 PM | Link to this

We need a separation of Church and State along with a Separation of Cobb Co. and Georgia.

By Trey Bowing

January 14, 2005 03:01 PM | Link to this

I think Allan(poe@netdoor.com) is a theory, not a fact.

By truth?

January 14, 2005 03:02 PM | Link to this

they should have asked God for forgiveness before He shook the ocean floor.

By Gordon

January 14, 2005 03:06 PM | Link to this

Bob,

Be careful when you use absolutes. How do you account for those doing genetic or biology scientific research who don’t agree with you?

Sir, you are simply mistaken. I cannot say it any plainer. The trend in science is definitely AWAY from macro-evolution as either an explanation for how life at the celluar level, or for the development of one species from another. Miller’s Experiment, Darwin’s Tree of Life, Haeckel’s Embryos, they’ve all been discredited.

A true scientist wouldn’t be troubled by any of this at all. A true scientist would just follow the facts. At least that’s what the Darwinists used to say.

By Adam

January 14, 2005 03:08 PM | Link to this

Truth?,

So anyone with disabled children should have asked for forgiveness… since they did not, they are being punished? Whoops, there is the banjo music again.

By Jay

January 14, 2005 03:08 PM | Link to this

Dan you have no right under the constitution or the bill of rights to use public institutions as a way to sell your religion or your “point of view” as you call it - though I marvel you can have a point of view when you fail to have a mind capable of diserning religion from science or mythology from something literal.

Your religion is for you and you only, not for everyone else. Feel free to form your own church (you can even gain tax-exempt status for stealing other people’s money this way - thousands of churches find guilt is a great way to get money from simple minded people), spread the word how you wish, except in any institution that is paid for by tax dollars. There you don’t get to exercise your “religious rights”, because they may very well be contrary to the rights of other religions - that’s why they don’t allow you to preach and pray outloud - if they do they are endorsing your religious view, and they can’t do that according to the 1st Amend.

You are bastardizing religion when you use it for your own agenda and you know it. God tells me to send you a strong message. STOP IT.

By Dennis

January 14, 2005 03:10 PM | Link to this

When I was in school, we learned science, when I went to church we learned that God created the heaven and the earth. If children were “SO” much like christain they would have learned that from there parents, because remember parents, its not up to anybody else to rub your christian beliefs in anybodys face. So keep it out of the school and take them to church to learn who did what if that is your belief system.

By Doctor Atlantis

January 14, 2005 03:11 PM | Link to this

Thanks Anne! I appreciate you explaining the “Good Cop” “Bad Cop” approach to religious belief. Or is that the “Good Candy” “Scary Hell” approach?

Anne, I just ate a tasty piece of candy myself. Mmmm.

I never said I hadn’t accepted Jesus Christ as my personal lord and savior. I just pointed out the irony that God doesn’t really protect us all from danger. We have to be able to take care of ourselves because truthfully, God has taken a very hands-off management approach to the world - don’t you think?

If I were God, I wouldn’t have created evil, I wouldn’t have put my prized hand-made people on a geologically unstable planet, and I certainly wouldn’t have let my own son kill himself. And I definitely wouldn’t have used evolution - everybody would have a glow-in-the-dark “MADE BY GOD” stamp on their butt.

But I’m not God.

And as I’m sure you are used to, being a Christian, I forgive you for trying to scare me into belief - when it is Jesus’s love for us that should bring us into the fold, not the fear of hellfire.

By Tom Grantham

January 14, 2005 03:14 PM | Link to this

By valada

January 14, 2005 03:16 PM | Link to this

For those that may have forgotten, this is the United States of America. Founded on ‘In GOD we trust’. Now that we not only have opened our doors to the rest of the world, the rest of the world has come here to live in our land yet bring their ‘junk’. Go home I say if you don’t like what we do and stay there and do your thing. Once we get that in place, maybe our own people will see that because we believe in GOD, we have walked in HIS shadow. That shadow is being diluted/defused by all that other junk and just look at the world today….the 2nd S & G is here! Evolution is a theory so say so. Christianity is a belief, so say so. What is the problem?

By John McMichen

January 14, 2005 03:18 PM | Link to this

The reason people are so willing to accept evolution is that they do not want to be held accountable to a higher being.

By cindy

January 14, 2005 03:19 PM | Link to this

There is no need for insults. I don’t know about you all, but I surely would not want to live in a country where one party or one man ruled without opposition. It is called fascism. Let’s all be thankful that we can hold our differing beliefs freely.

By Jay

January 14, 2005 03:21 PM | Link to this

Good arguement VALADA - maybe you should go back to where ever you came from - you didn’t just appear in the US like the creationists believe, your family came from another country and you were born here. We who m were born here don’t own some sort of right to tell others what to do you know. So take your own advice and head on back to where ever you came from - GEEZ - what a Christian attitude Valada!

By mit

January 14, 2005 03:27 PM | Link to this

Gordon, all these books are opinions based on missing data, there is no research done to prove their point. I can not accept this.

By Adam

January 14, 2005 03:33 PM | Link to this

Come to think about it, Kane never could tell me where his wife came from… I wanted to send some apples to her family.

By Adam

January 14, 2005 03:36 PM | Link to this

Don’t even get me started with Noah’s family…

By Julie

January 14, 2005 03:38 PM | Link to this

O.k, O.k. Let’s forget the stickers.Let’s get christians together and get rid of the teaching all together. Madeling O’Hare got prayer out of school alone. What could we do with God on our side.

By truth?

January 14, 2005 03:38 PM | Link to this

adam, that’s the question. either you accept jesus or be punished. it seems to me you are going to burn in the pits of hell for eternity. Satan has ruined all your minds. dinosaurs are not real, satan put them there to trick you.

By Kevin

January 14, 2005 03:38 PM | Link to this

I think I’ve lost a few IQ points reading through some of these posts.

This planet and this universe were not just made for you.

Creationists do not use key scientific principles. Creationists make their theory and then only accept evidence consistent with that theory. Evolution is a theory first based on Darwin’s research and now it is based on the weight of the evidence gathered by thousands of scientist. Scientific anomalies do exist that are not consistent with evolution but they do not outweigh the prevailing theory.

I cannot wait until a variation of Super String Theory is taught in GA schools. Some of you people cannot except that we developed through a natural process, just wait until you find out that we are living in as many as 11 dimensions.

By Gordon

January 14, 2005 03:39 PM | Link to this

Mit,

No research done? Have you read these books? Have you done your OWN research? Do you long to find out answers yourself or is it just convenient to pick a side? If you really want to find out about something, you can find out (or at least have a solid basis for an opinion). Most of the people who are posting here on both sides haven’t looked. There will be a preponderance (sp?) of the evidence if you do. Then you won’t have to debate the issue with people like me. It won’t mean you will KNOW (I’m not arrogant enough to say that), but you will be able to base your beliefs on your own research with confidence.

By Cyrus

January 14, 2005 03:39 PM | Link to this

Wow. Logic and rationality in redneck georgia? Must be the work of the devil! REPENT YOU SINNERS!!!!!! The anti-christ is coming!!!!! PREPARE FOR THE RAPTURE!!!!!

By Katie

January 14, 2005 03:42 PM | Link to this

truth? oh my god, please tell me you’re joking around. I know I don’t live in the same state populated by such an idiot.

By Tony Duke

January 14, 2005 03:43 PM | Link to this

I do believe that creation should be taught in the home or the church and that the evolution theory should be taught in schools. Also, with the opposition to evolution by Christian fundamentalists it could be conscrued that evolution does not acknowledge a creator, with the disclaimer on evolution posted in text books.

I agree with Judge Cooper, the Cobb County school board appears to have sided with religiously motivated individuals.

By truth?

January 14, 2005 03:47 PM | Link to this

ok ok (question mark) that’s what some of these people sound like.

By James

January 14, 2005 03:48 PM | Link to this

When Jesus was on Earth he never mentioned theories of creation as an important aspect of following him. He just asked people to follow. Why can’t Christians (myself included) just do the same thing? Why are we placing so many other doctrinal requirements on what people “should” believe in order to be called a “Christian”.

By mit

January 14, 2005 03:53 PM | Link to this

gordon, the writers of those books take research and fill in the spaces with opinion and not new research that proves their thinking. I could fill in all the gaps of the fossil record with anything I wish and write about it too. They also skip over subjects that contradict a subject they have an opinion on.

guns, germs, and steel good book about why we are the way we are in this country and why others are still hunter-gatherers. take a peek.

By Johnson

January 14, 2005 03:54 PM | Link to this

Gordon,

I’ve perused enough of those books and ones like them to get the gist of them and they are not scientifically valid. And yes, I do have experience in evolutionary and population biology research. The explanations for creation in those books are fallicious. They pick and choose bits of science they find useful to their creationist/intelligent design view but ignore the real science that refutes them. Young Earth hogwash is one example. The biggest criticism for Creationism is that the historical timeline based on the bible is only 4000 to 10000 years (depending on who you read). Of course this conflicts with the established scientific view that the earth is 4.5 billion years old, so creationist invent pseudo-science to try and show the earth is only some thousand years old. Most of the people on this forum have no idea how evolution really works. It is not a single event but an explanation of speciation (which has been observed) due to several biological processes. Also, academics are little concerned with terms such as micro and macro.

By Gerald

January 14, 2005 03:54 PM | Link to this

After the country seems to have been running backwards these past few months, I’m glad to see us stopped if just for a second.

And by the way, using the fundamentalists definition of “theory”, then I guess the bible is all “theory” too.

By Anthony

January 14, 2005 03:55 PM | Link to this

Hey hh67@earthmine.com, I know exactly what will happen when I die: The same thing that will happen to you. We will be worm food. We will be put in a box, chucked in the ground, and then decay until we are no more. I have no problem with that. It’s called life and death. You and the other sheep are the ones who can’t handle it, and instead believe in some fable to subside your fears of death.

You see, I don’t suffer from the same unfounded fears as you. I learned a long time ago that the fears instilled by greedy, pedophile “agents of god” were instilled to keep me in the fold, and afraid to search for facts using reasoning and intelligence. Your religion forbids this, because rational intelligent thinking would signify the end of christianity as it exists.

No one is more lost than you. You will waste a lifetime kneeling to a make believe icon, only to end up as worm food.

Sleep well.

By Kevin

January 14, 2005 03:56 PM | Link to this

Okay i agree teach Evolution in school is okay! why waste court cost cause ACLU can’t stand it.I agree teach it it true of Evolution so i feel is not and is okay here!

By Tom

January 14, 2005 03:56 PM | Link to this

All this talk and uproar about evolution. The late Louis Grizzard settled the issue years ago when speaking of genealogiocal functions and such stuff said, “… I have to have come from a long line of sturdy stock because I am here…! Wasn’t he speaking of evolution? Or was his demise the consequences of that pig valve they put in him?

By Gordon Pfeiffer

January 14, 2005 03:57 PM | Link to this

Mit,

“They also skip over subjects that contradict a subject they have an opinion on.”

That’s exactly what you are doing now.

And I will read that book.

By JPCMD

January 14, 2005 04:00 PM | Link to this

I am a physician and consider myself a scientist. I do believe in evolutionary forces. I also believe in a higher being. I am a Christian. I know that the three greatest minds of the last 1000 years, namely Einstein, Newton and Da vinci also belived in God. I doubt that any of those p** complaining parents or the ACLU members wanting the stickers off the textbooks, would come close to equaling their intellect. I also know that there are alot of peon “Know it alls” who think they are so smart, having been on earth, what, 20-60 years or so. I think that this country is making a HUGE mistake in the ongoing campaign against our Judeo-Christian heritage. I don’t know exactly for sure if there is a God, but I sure as HELL would prefer to live in a neighborhood, city or country of Christians than of a bunch of Atheists. Thank God I can afford to send my two kids to private school and not the piece of crap public school system where some Loser atheist parent can dictate what my kids are taught and exposed to. Get a LIFE!!!

By James

January 14, 2005 04:01 PM | Link to this

It’s no wonder that people are still arguing over this. In educational theory, the simplest level of knowledge is “dualism”. This is a view of the universe that says for every question there are only two opposing answers. This is the level at which elementary-school children think and are taught. Unfortunately, most people never make it past dualism, and fail to recognize that there may be multiple (>2) possible answers to a question, each with a varying degree of accuracy. So, here we are arguing over two extreme answers to a complex question: (1) either you believe in God (and hence the earth was created in a miracuous 6-day feat) or (2) you are a hard-core atheist who believes we are nothing more than an accident. There are so many other alternatives to these two extremes. It’s kind of like how the media is always describing racial issues as black / white. I’ve never met a purely black or purely white person. Most people are between pink-cream and brown.

By Kevin

January 14, 2005 04:02 PM | Link to this

i feel evolution will not cause kids to cry are be overwhelmed they need learn facts! and if cobb appeals they are stupid morons. sorry it fact deal with facts

By Adam

January 14, 2005 04:03 PM | Link to this

This is a late CHRISTmas carol for Truth?

www.gdd.net/bkholiday/index.php

By christy

January 14, 2005 04:05 PM | Link to this

Johnson,

Mankind defines a day as the Earth making one trip around the Sun. God does not live on this earth except in the hearts and minds of his followers, so he is not subject to our idea of a “day.” A day in God’s eyes could be billions of years!! And I guess it’s because “academics are little concerned with terms such as micro and macro” that we study microbiology, microorganisms, the micro-environment…

By Tom G.

January 14, 2005 04:08 PM | Link to this

Too bad we can’t have this type of discussion in our public schools.

The question of origins is both a scientific and a religious issue. If there is any grain of truth in the spiritual realm, why would we want to keep our children from having access to it?

By mit

January 14, 2005 04:10 PM | Link to this

gordon, what subject am I skipping over. intelligent design? I just don’t entertain that idea. If there is a higher power he/she has a lot of explaining to do in my opinion. I can’t follow someone just because they ask me to, as james states. The writers of those books need to do experiments and show that they are correct in order for me to take what they say as right and not just opinion.

i hope you enjoy that book, not evolution (but does touch on it a little).

By John

January 14, 2005 04:12 PM | Link to this

Lemmings! You’re all lemmings!!!! I’m aghast that such narrow-minded people still exist on this earth! Open up your minds, think for yourselves, question what you’ve been led to believe. Then, and only then, you can judge what is true for you. Without the knowledge of all things a reasonable argument cannot be made for one theory vs. another. A mind is a terrible thing to waste.

Now, with that being said, can we drop all of this silly rhetoric and focus on the hardships that plague our world: Poverty, Homelessness, AIDS, The crisis in the Sudan, The crisis in Indonesia, Sri Lanka, Malaysia & India.

By Brad

January 14, 2005 04:12 PM | Link to this

OK, we’re all getting a little too extreme with the preaching. I feel like we’re near election day again!

Here’s the point: As a science teacher, I interpret the stickers as an attempt to sway the science classroom into religion. You see, back in the Days of Darwin, the church(which was the government then) felt threatened by Darwin and his Ideas. I can’t believe there are still this many people that feel this way. Our problem is our lack of a good education in this country.

For those of you who dismiss a scientific theory such as evolution, which must be backed up by overwhelming evidence, must also be willing to dismiss theories such as the ones that state that bacteria are killed by antibiotics. Medicine is absolute science, and you should therefore refuse all medical care. The funny thing is that we now have many bacteria that are resistant to our antibiotics because they have EVOLVED because of the natural selection due to the overuse of antibiotics. Also, those of you who would dismiss the theory of gravity may have trouble flying in an airplane when the engines are out of fuel. Evolution has survived even more skepticism than gravity since it takes a respectable amount of thinking to even understand it. It goes on and on with every other theory of science. Why isn’t everyone arguing that the Big Bang theory shouldn’t be taught in the Physics classroom?

However, the true point is that I would teach Creationism in my biology classroom if there was evidence backing it up. You can’t even test any notion of Creationism as a hypothesis since “God created man…” in an untestable declaration.

In our science classrooms, we teach science including only theories that are systematically backed up by evidence. And the cool thing about science is that skepticism is promoted. I highly suggest people who disagree with evolution to realize science classrooms are for science, and religious classrooms are for religion. And we owe it to our kids to know the difference between the two.

With our insecurities and ignorance, we have severly deviated from rational thinking.

If you feel teaching evolution as a part of science is against your beliefs, simply tell your kids to think otherwise if you want to. Better yet, let them open their minds and think for themselves!

If anything, we should now teach more about evolution since it’s so obvious very few understand it.

Thank you for your time.

By Anthony

January 14, 2005 04:13 PM | Link to this

Facts, Dave, Facts. Get it? I am not here to answer your little queries. Quit ignoring the question.

When you are ready to admit that you do not presently have, nor will ever have, PROOF of ANY GOD, (not even only yours, as proof of any any god will do), talk to me.

BTW, I’m not a liberal. Now who is the pot and who is the kettle in making assumptions?

I don’t feel the need to belong to a certain group by declaring myself this or that. I make my decisions on a case by case and issue by issue basis. Christians are too lazy to do this. They want it all laid out for them. “Someone tell me what to think, I am after all, just a man.” LAZY.

Facts or proof…otherwise go to church, go pray, go give the pastor your hard earned money….Something. Just don’t talk to me anymore. I don’t have the time to waste on you.

Not so fast in your response…I SAID FACTS. Quit dodging the subject.

PS: FACTS

By Dana

January 14, 2005 04:16 PM | Link to this

If this is a display of Christian beliefs and behaviors ….perhaps I should investigate other religions

My God teaches me to Judge others lest ye be judged

But then again many Christians prefer selective reading of the scripture

This debate should be about whether or not the stickers should be under the law allowed in Public Schools All you people calling them Government schools need to quit following the scripture according to RUSH Limbaugh (a drug addict) and come up with your own beliefs and ideals But that is just my opinion

By Gordon

January 14, 2005 04:16 PM | Link to this

Johnson,

If you look back through my posts, you will see nothing on Intelligent Design/Creationism. I have simply pointed out 3 main things: 1) Darwinism has MANY problems and does not even begin to explain how life began. 2) The idea that one species mutated to another has come into question. For example, where are the fossils which show the transitional states between the species? Darwin himself said those needed to be found, but they have not. 3) The trend in science today is away, not towards, macro-evolution in these areas. That doesn’t make a statement about what the majority believe, on the direction it is heading. The next 5 years will be interesting. I guess they always are. One final point: Most of what I have read says both cosmologists who tend to support or disagree with Darwinism believe the universe began with the Big Bang. No serious scientist I have ever heard of believes the earth began 4 to 10 thousand years ago. If those are the books you are referring to, we are not talking about the same books. Many SERIOUS scientists, who have forgotten more than you or I will ever know, are calling Darwinism into question. And their number is increasing.

By Katie

January 14, 2005 04:18 PM | Link to this

I think I’m a bit biased in this arguement because Christians annoy me. They come in my restaurant right after church on sundays and most of them are very rude and ignorant. They also tip very poorly.

By Ann

January 14, 2005 04:20 PM | Link to this

To JPCMD I agreed with the first part of your post, then it suddenly turned into a hate post. Why do you not want your kids exposed to any atheists? Do you assume they are evil or lacking morals? I am agnostic (bordering atheist), but you might mistake me for your above-average christian (I’m considerate, honest, always trying to do the ‘right’ thing). I am offended that you would automatically assume your children would not benefit from being around me. My children learn how to be good people not because they’re afraid of going to hell, but because it is the right way to live life.

By Tom G.

January 14, 2005 04:21 PM | Link to this

Facts? How about intelligent design indicates an intelligent designer? How about the concept of irreducible complexity? How about the programming of DNA? Evolution does not have the answers to these questions.

By Johnson

January 14, 2005 04:22 PM | Link to this

Christy,

Actually, I am not in disagreement with you…the truth is evolution is not necessarily at odds with creation by God, unless a strictly literal interpretation of Genesis is believed. I agree that a day could be billions of days. One of the best professors I had while studying zoology was a Dr. Lehman at the University of North Carolina. (He has since died but he was a wondeful man) He taught a major level course in evolution and he was a Christian. His explanation was that God said “let there be”. I confess, I personally don’t buy it, but some may. So in that regard the two concepts really don’t need to be that contentious. However, to those that have the burden of strictly believing in the bible, especially Genesis the two concepts can not be reconciled. And those people have a right to have that belief but shouldn’t be able to usurp science education. A science text shouldn’t have to qualify itself for the sake of religion.

By Steve

January 14, 2005 04:23 PM | Link to this

Valada,

The slogan “In God we Trust” was added to our money in the 1950’s when we were fighting the godless commies.

Again, God is not mentioned in the Constitution.

By Gordon

January 14, 2005 04:25 PM | Link to this

Mit,

“I just don’t entertain that idea”. That says it all, for both sides. Now explain to me what makes you any different than the people on here who don’t entertain the idea of evolution.

By mit

January 14, 2005 04:28 PM | Link to this

gordon, the fossil records are incomplete because it is a very unusual occurrence and we will never find the complete record but that doesn’t disprove anything. lets look for modern day creatures that have fossil records of evolution like birds from dinosaurs. better yet look at bacteria. but that is micro- to you correct? and the question you pose is macro-. which you state doesn’t happen. have a look at this hypothesis.

text to be linked

By Tom G.

January 14, 2005 04:29 PM | Link to this

You don’t get it. If you are studying origin of life, and if there is a possibility that life originated as an act of an outside force, be it God or whatever, and you refuse to consider that alternative, YOU’LL NEVER FIND THE TRUTH.

By mark

January 14, 2005 04:33 PM | Link to this

how can you ask kids to believe in jesus after they find out that the easter bunny and santa are not even real? What are you trying to teach them?

By Bob

January 14, 2005 04:34 PM | Link to this

Gordon, you need to study some real science. The books you refer to are written by non-scientists.

Real scientists write the science textbooks. School Boards must insure that real science is taught in their science classes but using the science textbooks from the real scientists.

By Steve

January 14, 2005 04:35 PM | Link to this

Christy,

One trip around the sun is a YEAR, but you people like to ignore small factual details!!

By Randy

January 14, 2005 04:37 PM | Link to this

I WANT TO CONGRADULATE THE CHRISTIANS IN THIS FORUM FOR A GREAT DEBATE, YOU ALL WIN THE DEBATE HANDS DOWN. THE PEOPLE WHO ARE REPRESENTING MACRO-EVOLUTION, YOUR CASE IS VERY WEAK, REALLY ITS PITIFUL. BUT YOU DON’T HAVE MUCH TO WORK WITH. EVERYONE HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND.

By mit

January 14, 2005 04:37 PM | Link to this

i don’t get your post gordon i don’t entertain intelligent design because there are no experiments that can be done or evidence backing it up. that makes me different than someone who beleives intelligent design because there just has to be a God. I personally don’t take the middle ground like yourself because I don’t believe its there. but I also have no proof of that so i could be called more of an agnostic than an atheist.

By Terry

January 14, 2005 04:38 PM | Link to this

It’s about time the far right learned that they cannot force their beliefs on the rest of us. Evolution is a theory that’s all but at least it has some scientific basis. Anyone who belives that the universe was created in 6 days needs some major counseling. I was brought up in a strict fundementalist family and until I learned to think for myself and ask the simple question ” Where did God come from?” I was as ignorant as the Cobb County School board. We have become a nation of ignorant, immoral sheep who profess this great belief in God but refuse to follow the teachings of the man we worship. All Christians need to actually read and understand the teachings of Christ.

By Johnson

January 14, 2005 04:38 PM | Link to this

Gordon,

Among ethologists (the ones that study evolution) Darwin, while respected, is not credited with most of the processes that now make up the study of Evolution. So we are probably not that much in disagreement about him. As far as the origins of the earth/life …most ethologists are interested in what proceeds from there (of course geolgist and anthropologists have different views). In school, we spent about five minutes out of three months discussing the Big Bang. Mutation is only one of the factors involved and as I said before speciation has been observed in the laboratory and the in the field. As far as the micro-, macro- emphasis (Christy, I only meant micro and macro evolution) I’m aware of several scientist investigating inter-species evolution, so I’m not sure where you are going with that. But my main reason for posting here is in defense of science and science education. Holes in scientific explanations should not be filled with non-scientific explanations.

By Gordon

January 14, 2005 04:39 PM | Link to this

Mit,

Thanks for the link. Now go to your favorite search engine and enter “Berra’s Blunder”.

By Lozen

January 14, 2005 04:40 PM | Link to this

Neil Franklin says, “Have any of the evolutionists ever thought about what there was before the Big Bang? You cannot make SOMETHING out of NOTHING!” I ask you Neil, Have any of the creationists ever thought about what there was before god? You cannot make something out of nothing!

By mit

January 14, 2005 04:40 PM | Link to this

for the record, darwinism is NOT Macro-evolution, and it is NOT the origin of LIFE. what was darwin’s book called.

The Origin of SPECIES.

get it right!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By Dave

January 14, 2005 04:42 PM | Link to this

I am not Catholic, but I was so impressed when the Pope addressed the creation v. eveolution topic by saying he could see the divine hand at work in evolution. Exactly! Why must evolution be seen by the devout as unholy? It is a miraculous thing. I can happily accept evolution and not see it as any kind of threat to my faith. Guess I’d better convert to Catholic.

By steve

January 14, 2005 04:43 PM | Link to this

I resent the attitude that people need the “fear of God” to behave in a compassionate manner. Some of the kindest people I know are not religious. If a person requires the fear of hell to be good, then they aren’t very good in the first place, are they?

By Tom

January 14, 2005 04:44 PM | Link to this

Brad!!

OUTSTANDING post (January 14, 2005 04:12 PM) Pretty much sums it up!

THANK YOU!!!

By Gordon

January 14, 2005 04:44 PM | Link to this

Mit,

Fair enough. But not “believing” in intelligent design doesn’t mean you have to “believe” in evolution. Just follow the trail and be as comfortable as you can where it leads you. Don’t take anything for granted.

Take care. Enjoyed the conversation.

By Adam

January 14, 2005 04:45 PM | Link to this

Jews do not believe in hell and they are some of the nicest people I know.

By mit

January 14, 2005 04:47 PM | Link to this

gordon,

farewell, maybe another conversation another time…

By christy

January 14, 2005 04:48 PM | Link to this

Thanks for catching my mis-type, Steve. Did it make you feel better or prove that evolution should be taught as a fact to point that out? If so, you’re going to be here awhile debating the grammatical and wording errors of almost every post on both sides of this debate…stick with the subject matter please.

By Den

January 14, 2005 04:48 PM | Link to this

Funny, Evolutionist are upset about religion but, what they are saying in Cobb is that it is a theory, not a fact.And anyone that looks into it with an inteligent mind will see it is just that and a weak one at that.

The fact of what that leaves them with (creation) is their problem to deal with.

By Jim

January 14, 2005 04:51 PM | Link to this

Actually Steve, “In God We Trust” appeared on the two-cent coin in 1864, a result of an increase in religous sentiment during the Civil War. It appeared for the first time on PAPER currency in 1963, a result of an act passed in the 1950s.

By Adam

January 14, 2005 04:51 PM | Link to this

Christy,

Give me my rib back!

By Jim

January 14, 2005 04:52 PM | Link to this

Actually Steve, “In God We Trust” appeared on the two-cent coin in 1864, a result of an increase in religous sentiment during the Civil War. It appeared for the first time on PAPER currency in 1964, a result of an act passed in the 1950s.

By DEN

January 14, 2005 05:00 PM | Link to this

WHEN Charles Darwin advanced his theory of evolution he conceded that life may have been “originally breathed by the Creator into a few forms or into one.�1 But present-day evolutionary theory generally eliminates any mention of a Creator. Instead, the theory of the spontaneous generation of life, once repudiated, has been revived in a somewhat altered form.

2 Belief in a form of spontaneous generation can be traced back for centuries. In the 17th century C.E., even respected men of science, including Francis Bacon and William Harvey, accepted the theory. However, by the 19th century Louis Pasteur and other scientists had seemingly dealt it a deathblow, having proved by experiments that life comes only from previous life. Nevertheless, out of necessity, evolutionary theory assumes that long ago microscopic life must somehow have arisen spontaneously from nonliving matter.

By Den

January 14, 2005 05:00 PM | Link to this

Den (and Randy if he comes back)

Perhaps you can explain where the process of Evolution is weak? Of course, that will mean you have to know what it is (hint…it is not an ape turning into a man…by the way, can you tell the readers what most scientist believe our earliest ancestor was…no, it wasn’t a monkey).

An intelligent mind? Do you have one? Gaps in the scientific explanation for evolution do not leave us only with the mythology of Genesis.

By Adam

January 14, 2005 05:02 PM | Link to this

Some of the stars that fell on Alabama apparently hit Cobb County and burned up all the good stuff!

By Gordon

January 14, 2005 05:02 PM | Link to this

Mit and Johnson,

You both seem to be saying in your posts that what you are really concerned about is AFTER life was created. Now back to how all this started, the sticker. It refers to the origin of life, not of man. It doesn’t refer to what happened AFTER life began. I am not hung up on the sticker, but if evolution doesn’t explain how life began it shouldn’t be taught as such.

Bob,

By “real science” I assume you mean what is consistent with what you beleive.

By DEN

January 14, 2005 05:05 PM | Link to this

Is It Scientific?

If a spontaneous beginning for life is to be accepted as scientific fact, it should be established by the scientific method. This has been described as follows: Observe what happens; based on those observations, form a theory as to what may be true; test the theory by further observations and by experiments; and watch to see if the predictions based on the theory are fulfilled.

In an attempt to apply the scientific method, it has not been possible to observe the spontaneous generation of life. There is no evidence that it is happening now, and of course no human observer was around when evolutionists say it was happening. No theory concerning it has been verified by observation. Laboratory experiments have failed to repeat it. Predictions based on the theory have not been fulfilled. With such an inability to apply the scientific method, is it honest science to elevate such a theory to the level of fact?

On the other hand, there is ample evidence to support the conclusion that the spontaneous generation of life from nonliving matter is not possible. “One has only to contemplate the magnitude of this task,� Professor Wald of Harvard University acknowledges, “to concede that the spontaneous generation of a living organism is impossible.� But what does this proponent of evolution actually believe? He answers: “Yet here we are�as a result, I believe, of spontaneous generation.� Does that sound like objective science?

British biologist Joseph Henry Woodger characterized such reasoning as “simple dogmatism�asserting that what you want to believe did in fact happen.� How have scientists come to accept in their own minds this apparent violation of the scientific method? The well-known evolutionist Loren Eiseley conceded: “After having chided the theologian for his reliance on myth and miracle, science found itself in the unenviable position of having to create a mythology of its own: namely, the assumption that what, after long effort, could not be proved to take place today had, in truth, taken place in the primeval past.�29

Based on the evidence, the spontaneous generation of life theory appears better to fit the realm of science fiction than scientific fact. Many supporters apparently have forsaken the scientific method in such matters in order to believe what they want to believe. In spite of the overwhelming odds against life originating by chance, unyielding dogmatism prevails rather than the caution normally signaled by the scientific method

By Respublicus

January 14, 2005 05:16 PM | Link to this

Ok. I vote that we all stop posting until Randy stops writing in all caps.

Seriously, though, I have yet to see a post here from any pro-sticker advocate explaining why only the theory of evolution gets a sticker and not, say, the theory of gravity, too.

I mean, even if it is true that evolution is a belief, as the pro-sticker crowd maintains, certainly acknowledging other theories to be “fact” must also be a belief. So why wouldn’t they warrant a sticker? Why just the theory of evolution? Why not the theory of combustion? Or atomic theory?

Why stop at science. Why not put stickers on books that say this is just one author’s interpretation, and that we should critically consider other interpretations? Or on a painting, stating that this is just one painter’s interpretation, and that we should approach it with an open mind?

The reason we don’t is because we’re supposed to be doing that anyway. We shouldn’t need an idiot label to tell us that. Adults or children.

By JEF

January 14, 2005 05:20 PM | Link to this

After reading some of the legal ruling, I think this Judge Cooper should be laughed off the bench. Some the statemtents he makes are absurd, not mention incredibly biased. For example, he wrote, “By denigrating evolution, the school board appears to be endorsing the well-known prevailing alternative theory, creationism or variations thereof, even though the sticker does not specifically reference any alternative theories.” How is calling “evolution” a theory denigrating it? And by properly calling it a theory, how is one automatically endorsing creationism? And in several places he implies that there is an ongoing debate about whether or not evolution (whatever that may mean to him) is a fact or theory. I don’t think even the staunchest supporter of Darwinian evolution would claim that we have any facts about mechanisms involved in the origin of life or species. Of course evolutionist believe they know the answers, and are quick to denigrate any dissenting view. And while a well-supported theory can approach the status of fact that has not happened for evolution in this sense. But whatever ones views about the scientific merit of evolutionary theories are, this legal ruling should not be applauded, because it is so patently misinformed and misguided.

By Marie

January 14, 2005 05:27 PM | Link to this

May I ask a question to all intelligent people out there? What is wrong with a factual statement? I must say I am extrememly baffled at the judge’s decision to force the removal of a factual statment off of a text book. Evolution IS a theory and it is just one of many theories (including Creationism/Intelligent Design). Do we not want our children to be taught the truth? If a handful of zealot Scientists will not allow the other theories to be mentioned in the text book…. what is wrong with telling our children the truth? Isn’t that the purpose of their going to school??? To learn FACTUAL information. Evolution is not a FACT. There is not one person out there who has Evidence that evolution is the ONE & ONLY way we got here. It is just one of many theories. Why are we teaching our children that evolution is THE theory as if it were fact?? Why can’t we expose them to ALL the theories and let each individual decide for themselves which one they believe in? Isn’t this still a free and open country? If the Science book had been written in this manner (a factual one explaining all the theories)then a sticker would not have been necessary. It was only necessary because evolution was being presented to the children as if it were CARVED IN STONE, PROVEN, FACTUAL reason as to why we are all here. Why are we allowing a handful of Scientist and paranoid parents to force their political agenda and personal beliefs on our children? Again, what is wrong with putting a sticker on a book that tells the truth? I’m all for fairness and the truth. If anyone has factual proof that evolution is THE only way we got here - they need to come forward with that information. It appears that Judge Cooper either has some very important scientific information he is holding back from the rest of us or he has a personal agenda.