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AJC.com > Living > Blog > Archives > 2008 > October > 20 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USDating a spoiled princess?
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
One of our wonderful male readers, “M” recently made an observation about the single women in Atlanta: If I meet another girl that tells me they are spoiled and used to getting what they want! You are 28 years old!!!!! Grow UP! What’s this epidemic about?
Now, the unenlightened me would have deflected this notion and fired back some “wise” remark about dating women you can’t afford - but I know better than that now. The fact is, a lot of us single women are spoiled, and sometimes we do behave in a way that is annoying to the men. I don’t think we always see our “spoiled” behavior, though.
For the record, I absolutely believe that women should be treated special by guys of interest. The men I date want to take me out and romance me, and honestly don’t seem to mind it. However, if I am not returning a kind gesture, or showing appreciation, or act entitled to these things, I can see how the “spoiled princess” label can get applied.
So guys, help us out: what do you consider spoiled behavior? Isn’t it a good thing when a woman knows her worth? Do you think that you wait a sufficient amount of time before determining whether a woman is displaying spoiled behavior?
Ladies, do you ever think about giving men a “return on dating investments” during the early stages of dating? Other than be appreciative and gracious, what do us modern women do to let the men know that we consider ourselves worthy, without coming across as some spoiled princess? Can you admit to being spoiled?
I certainly love to spoil myself, but I never thought about how men perceived that as a negative. What are your thoughts?
Happy Monday!
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By Dan
October 20, 2008 8:57 AM | Link to this
“My last boyfriend took me here [not said]but he beat me horribly”
“My last boyfriend bought me this [not said]but plucked every friend I had”
“My last boyfriend…”
To wit, I respond, is your exboyfriend for a reason….
I don’t mind spoiled women. After a time, I spoil the women that I’m with.
In the time that we’re together, I’m watching to see if she spoils herself, how (i.e. credit or funds management), and watch for the signs that she capable of spoiling herself, independent of “a man”.
I want you to recognize your value, I’ve probably seen glimpses of it if we’re talking. But never get the game incorrect, I don’t owe you anything….
And that’s where most “spoiled” chicks get dismissed, thinking that becuase Daddy, the last 3 dudes, or random guys do “x,y,z”, that you are somehow owed something…..
Newsflash: You are not!
By China Doll
October 20, 2008 9:24 AM | Link to this
Dan
U r funny!!!!
By NY2GA, Inc.
October 20, 2008 9:31 AM | Link to this
To me, treating yourself well and being a spoiled princess are two different things. For the former, a woman recognizes the value of hard work and rewards herself accordingly. I know that I have been called high maintenance by men because of the way I treat myself. Oh, well…I LOVE me. LMAO.
For the latter group, it seems like more of a sense of entitlement. Also, telling a man about what past men or your daddy did for you because you are a princess is of poor taste in my opinion.
By MLL
October 20, 2008 9:36 AM | Link to this
I have to admit it I’ve been spoiled forever maybe it’s because I am the last of the mohegians (SP) and I’m always considered the baby of the family which always bring those special treatments. When I tell ppl esp guys I’m the youngest of my sisters I get the “oh gosh” “you’re spoiled” or “I can tell” I don’t like being labeled as spoiled, I guess it comes with the territory of being the youngest or the baby of the family. In relationships I have been spoiled and it’s become quite commonplace for me. I do get my way for the most part and I do pout when I don’t. I’ve toned down alot - but what person doesn’t want to be spoiled?
By Randyt (aka Been there, Done that, Got a Closet FULL of t-shirts)
October 20, 2008 9:36 AM | Link to this
Hi WD and all.
In town and wanted to briefly comment on this topic. I have no problem and enjoy spoiling a woman BUT FIRST…
I have to know that the woman is generally low maintenance and does not consider being spoiled AN ENTITLEMENT. If a woman feels this way, then it does not become a “gift from the heart” but a RESPONSIBILITY, and that may bring with it RESENTMENT. In the long run, gifts given unwillingly pretty much guarantee the eventual decline of the relationship. They have to come from a genuine desire to please.
I tend to do many small things, with an occasional big thing when the woman is really special. I also notice if the woman is genuinely pleased and grateful. In my marriage, my ex-wife (“thank God and Greyhound she’s gone”) reached the point where she would hardly acknowledge anything, flowers, gifts, etc., so what did I do…stopped giving them.
My point is for all women who read this, acknowledge it when a man offers something out of the norm. Give him credit for effort if nothing else, even if he buys you a sleeping bag, when you really wanted Louis Vuitton, Gucci, or Prada. He will learn, but in the mean time you need to learn and display genuine gratitude.
By MELO
October 20, 2008 9:43 AM | Link to this
I absolutely believe that women should be treated special by guys of interest. and they get play in return?? good….hehehe
men I date want to take me out and romance me, and honestly don’t seem to mind it do u romance back??? well seems u do showing appreciation hw do u show appreciation???
Dont go into this dating thing with lots of expectations coz u may dig urself a big hole.Do u treat urself the same way u expect a man to treat u?? If the answer is yes,then maybe u are within ur rights.If the answer is no but u expect to be treated anyway,expect the men u date to expect return favors..only natural… But if have an open mind to this whole thing,i dont see a big problem anyway…
By RELL - selling attention time
October 20, 2008 9:44 AM | Link to this
LMAO!!!!!!….THIS SHOULD BE A GOOD ONE
Guys get your blogs buck ready because we going to get some good marketing today….or hell your vote…because the campaign is about to kick off on “I am that chick that can….”
PAGING ARED PAGING ARED….THIS IS YOUR TOPIC…LOL
couple ways to remedy this
1 - date women that make more than you…i have found they dont mind “spreading the wealth” and taking direction..regardless of the wage difference..hell they still women and they like men
2 - Make the women EARN your attention and affection…if it is one lesson that i have learned is that if a women does not EARN your affection she will not place a high value to you…and women love attention almost more than money….check the strip clubs…i mean not like they making a killing in there from 10 dollar table dances….but this is sure to be a funnny day and i need a good laugh
By M.
October 20, 2008 9:49 AM | Link to this
I think Reciprocation is the key up front. If you like the guy, dont play games, dont make them chase you around 285 and leave them wondering if you are feeling them or not. I get the idea of not wanting to look to eager, but if he is putting in work, acknowledge it! So many people just want their egos stroked so the fact they someone is chasing them is probably a big boost.
By MELO
October 20, 2008 9:52 AM | Link to this
“spreading the wealth** on the girlz part???….feeling connotative today hah Rell
By Leggs
October 20, 2008 9:57 AM | Link to this
Hello everyone. I’m low maintenance with high expectations on how a man should treat me. I’ll treat him like he’s my king and expect him to treat me like I’m his queen.
By RELL - selling attention time
October 20, 2008 9:58 AM | Link to this
So many people just want their egos stroked so the fact they someone is chasing them is probably a big boost.
LMAO….yes grown adults that dont love themselves enough to know they are ok and loved…and wanted….thing is…it is human nature to want what you THINK that you cannot have…if you think IT then you believe it….
By MLL
October 20, 2008 10:00 AM | Link to this
High 5 Leggs @9:57
By Leggs
October 20, 2008 10:09 AM | Link to this
Thank you MLL. I’ve never understood these “high maintenance” women. I’m not talking about women who take care of themselves. This is what all women should do. I’m talking about those “materialistic” women who value “tangible” items over the “intangible.” I sense a need for validation from others more so than from oneself. I love me, I walk w/the love of ME, and hopefully exude confidence and appreciation in myself that others will sense it.
By RELL - selling attention time
October 20, 2008 10:12 AM | Link to this
I’ll treat him like he’s my king and expect him to treat me like I’m his queen.
King and queens were married…they did not date…when dating you should keep all expectations rooted in reality….folks need to stop taking on “starring roles” in there own sitcoms or melodramas…you are not queen until i say “i do” nor i am a king…but what i am is the man you chose….so treat me with the same respect you wanted to be treated with…that includes managing your emotions and stop leaning on old sterotypes about accepted behavior…ex…menstral periods and such….feel me….plus alot of women throw the word queen around and have ho tendecys or just out right un-queen like manners to them….i mean how many women today either come from royalty that you know of or was raised in a royal setting…again fantasy!!!!!!
By Wise Diva
October 20, 2008 10:13 AM | Link to this
Good morning! Did you guys have a good weekend?
@M, you wrote, If you like the guy, dont play games, what if you are not sure if you like him OR how much you like him? Is it best to discourage the guy from “spoiling” us, until we are 100% sure?
By RELL - selling attention time
October 20, 2008 10:14 AM | Link to this
@melo - R.I.F.
you are old enough to know what that means..re-read..yes on the womens part….would you like to buy some attention time…i have some for sale…gump!
By Blue_Kolla
October 20, 2008 10:23 AM | Link to this
So guys, help us out: what do you consider spoiled behavior?
Wha?! You wouldn’t believe the amount of control that I’ve just had to exercise.
…ohhhh I can’t believe this. I better get to the next question before I go ballistic on this chick.
Isn’t it a good thing when a woman knows her worth?
Is there a difference in confidence and conceit? Of course it is, just don’t over do it.
Do you think that you wait a sufficient amount of time before determining whether a woman is displaying spoiled behavior?
Sufficient time? The clock is ticking from the first, “Hello.”, and if I see any signs of being spoiled, feelings of entitlement, etc., I’m out like lights in a blackout.
‘Ey Melo I guess Wise is too busy to answer your question about how does she show appreciation. I want to hear this one too.
By Foots
October 20, 2008 10:25 AM | Link to this
Wise Is it best to discourage the guy from “spoiling” us, until we are 100% sure?
Yes, it is. I mean, grown people can do what they want, and if a dude decides to buy me a Prada purse and we’ve only been casually dating while we try to see if we want to take it further, I can’t stop him from doing that. What I CAN do is not accept the purse and gently tell him that we were not in a place in the dating relationship where those types of gifts would be appropriate.
By Leggs
October 20, 2008 10:27 AM | Link to this
Rell, I got your point on the marriage of kings and queens. I was simply making a point that if you treat me with the utmost respect and value my role as a woman, I will in turn do the same to you. You know Rell, everyone on here plays w/words. You know exactly what I’m talking about. Fantasy and reality are not intertwined for me. Nor will I wait for you define who I am as a woman. I define me! You will either like the way I “roll” with the title I gave myself, or you will “bounce!” Either way, I walk w/me FIRST!
By MELO
October 20, 2008 10:29 AM | Link to this
melo - R.I.F. u kill me with these acronyms..what that means…
By The Truth
October 20, 2008 10:32 AM | Link to this
Dan a chick I was considering marrying a few years back used that “my last boyfriend did blank blank blank” to get me to act. My response was if he did so much for you why aren’t you still with him? Crickets LMAO
Most chicks that are spoiled are spoiled in their own minds. No dude has done it, they’ve given themselves whatever they can afford and over time have determined that they’re spoiled. It’s mental. A chick hasn’t had a man in 5 years and says she’s spoiled. Yeah right.
NY2GA I agree whole heartedly. Taking good care of yourself and being spoiled are 2 totally different women. The first is highly desirable and the second should be treated like a lepper.
Here’s an absolute. Every woman on this earth is a giver. She may not give to me or Dan but she’s looking for the right cat to give too. If she comes out of her mouth with a bunch of demands or guidelines she does so because 1) I’m not the one 2) She’s too stupid to know better 3)She doesn’t respect the cat she’s making the demands too.
Most dudes mentally drop said chick down about 12 notches once she comes with that I’m spoiled crap.
By Poppa Grande
October 20, 2008 10:32 AM | Link to this
Melo
RIF=Reading Is Fundamental
By Binford2K8
October 20, 2008 10:34 AM | Link to this
NEWSFLASH: Women are SPOILED in American culture already, which has made them close to unwanted and unbearable.
Gee, let’s start…. the “modern” woman wants equal rights, equal pay - which I’m totally on-board with mind you, UNTIL they say they want to be be treated like a “lady”, which means the man antes up the extra time/money/attention.
Ladies. Seriously. You already have the nookie which is GAME-SET-MATCH. But then you bilk the system by wanting things “equal”.
Face it… If a woman make .70 on a dollar compared to a man, that woman with a man makes $1.70. And not only that, they expect the man to pay for most things and be gentlemanly. Stop double-dipping the chip please! It throws the checks and balances out of the window.
The problem with dating/marriage in this culture is that the power grid is out of balance.
Below are a few points based on Joe and Jen average, who make the EXACT same money and are equal in all ways but gender….
Joe courts Jen and pays for most, if not all, of the early dates and the majority of dates during their courtship because society tells him he’ll look like a cheap b******* if he doesn’t
Joe buy Jen an engagement ring for $10-15K, because that’s what expected of him - by both Jen and DeBeers
The Wedding: 100% about the woman and what she wants - groom could be a stand in, as no man really cares about the pomp and circumstance of a wedding
Man takes care of women and children staying at home (usually the 1st year - sometimes more). Works hard, spends no time with kid due to bringing home $$$
Dude gets booted out of house because woman decided she’s not in “love” anymore (probably because Holmes was WORKING). Man will not get custody even if they find woman smoking crack while participating in an orgy with the kid watching. Man is now alone …and broke
But hey, women insist their not equal. They’re right. They’ve been running roughshod for years now. Pretty much all American women are spoiled Princesses.
This concludes my Monday rant!
Why do you think a lot of men go abroad to meet women?
By M.
October 20, 2008 10:38 AM | Link to this
@Wise Diva
Thats an interesting point because I think the key is balance. Sometimes, you wont really find out if you like them becasue you are really meeting their representative for the first few months, etc. So then, you really have to proceed with caution. I would say definately do not just lead someone on (allowing them to spoil you when you know you really dont like them) just to say you have someone to date.
By abc
October 20, 2008 10:39 AM | Link to this
A chick talking about her self-worth in a context that has only to do with how much money is spent on her is a little bit disturbing.
I’ve had girlfriends like that in the past. That’s not the only reason they’re in the past, but it contributes.
By MELO
October 20, 2008 10:39 AM | Link to this
thanx,Poppe, my mayne Rell is feeling scholarly today,u celebrating a graduation oh sme,or maybe queen jus treated u good this weekend??
By RELL - selling attention time
October 20, 2008 10:41 AM | Link to this
@truth
1) I’m not the one 2) She’s too stupid to know better 3)She doesn’t respect the cat she’s making the demands too.
YEP!!!!
@LEGGS…ummm just expanding your point..it was not a slight to you…you are a grown women..if in your right mind you think that you are queen..then BAM you are a queen….sorry your highness!!!!!
@melo….see what PG posted
By Tazzee
October 20, 2008 10:44 AM | Link to this
Morning Folks!
I’m spoiled but I spoil myself. I find it hard to be spoiled by others because it’s very seldom that happens. As far as dating, I’ve never really been spoiled by a guy I was dating, but I am appreciative of all romantic gestures.
I’m a very giving person, but I let the guy set the tone in the relationship.
By Foots
October 20, 2008 10:45 AM | Link to this
I certainly love to spoil myself, but I never thought about how men perceived that as a negative. What are your thoughts?
The wrong man perceives that as a negative. I like to travel and see beautiful places, especially places with beautiful water (it’s the Pisces in me). I’ve met guys who saw this as a negative right up front: “Dang!! You’ve already been everywhere! I guess I can’t take you anywhere” Like going everywhere on Earth is even possible. Wrong guys.
Then I’ve met guys who saw this as a positive thing: “Oh wow! I like to travel too, we’ll have to exchange stories about the places we’ve been. Where are you planning to go next?” Nothing about us going together, just a genuine interest in my own interests. Right guys.
By Dan
October 20, 2008 10:47 AM | Link to this
@Truth
Of your enumerated comments, I will agree with 1 and 2, but 3 gets a little iffy.
See these women are clueless (see #2) and they run this game to test the guy they’re talking to. He has no idea what the -ex did for her, no way to confirm it either…
But when a woman hit’s me with that nonsense, I have the same response as you do - and that’s when you get the sad, sob stories about what he did/did not do.
I’ll listen, but I’m listening to for her to put 2 + 2 together. You had a man that gave you what you asked for, yet treated you like isht, and now you are requesting the material, before finding out if the new guy is going to treat you like isht too.
There’s an old saying for that (my man Winston Churchill): “…we’ve established that you’re a w*e, now we’re negotiating price”.
Let cha boy have it his way, and it’s a double cheeseburger and $1 fries…
By Leggs
October 20, 2008 10:48 AM | Link to this
Rell, I have not placed myself on a pedestal, simply trying to make a point.
abc, IF your post is directed at me, let me ask you this. If you don’t have “self-worth” how can you possibly have a chance at being taken seriously, whether you’re low maintenance or high maintenance?
By Foots
October 20, 2008 10:51 AM | Link to this
Binford Why do you think a lot of men go abroad to meet women?
To find women who are looking for a wealthy American man to support them (since many have no means or education to support themselves) so they can become American citizens, stay home with the kids, usually for the 1st year, sometimes more. Then, he can go work hard and spend virtually no time with either her or the kids.
By RELL - selling attention time
October 20, 2008 10:52 AM | Link to this
@truth
1) I’m not the one 2) She’s too stupid to know better 3)She doesn’t respect the cat she’s making the demands too.
YEP!!!!
@LEGGS…ummm just expanding your point..it was not a slight to you…you are a grown women..if in your right mind you think that you are queen..then BAM you are a queen….sorry your highness!!!!!
@melo….see what PG posted
By The Truth
October 20, 2008 10:56 AM | Link to this
Binford thats the story going on out there. I swear I don’t see why dudes sign up for that stuff. I take care of everything and you give me some AZZ IF you feel like it. BS As we’ve discussed before, there’s very little in a marraige for dudes. It’s a fugg story from the get go. Now a dude can’t even discipline his own kids. SMH You pretty much summed this thing up. Thing is, stupid azz male politicians created these laws. SMH again
By Dan
October 20, 2008 10:58 AM | Link to this
@Foots
Actually, the world is more patriachial than America.
The women that come here, come with the intent of being submissive to their husbands, in their every request.
Example: Women across the World often do manual labor as the men “sun” themselves and reap the benefits.
It’s when the American male does not exert [her] expected dominance, that’s when she treats him like the lame he his…
By MELO
October 20, 2008 10:58 AM | Link to this
Foots i see nothing wrong with ur view point, evrything seems perfect coz the right men will treat u as an equal,he treats u and u treat him too in return and both of u are capable of treating urselves seperate of each other.What is wrong in my view, is the women who cannot do the things they are expecting the men to do and expect that upfront and any men that do not is treated like they are bottom tier.A woman with such thinking is setting themsleves up for physical abuse.
By Dan
October 20, 2008 10:58 AM | Link to this
@Foots
Actually, the world is more patriachial than America.
The women that come here, come with the intent of being submissive to their husbands, in their every request.
Example: Women across the World often do manual labor as the men “sun” themselves and reap the benefits.
It’s when the American male does not exert [her] expected dominance, that’s when she treats him like the lame he his…
By RELL - selling attention time
October 20, 2008 10:59 AM | Link to this
@foots….lol
By abc
October 20, 2008 11:01 AM | Link to this
I wasn’t referring to anyone in particular, Leggs, but if I had, it would have been Wise Diva, as she referenced that directly in her topic.
Personally, my sense of self-worth has almost nothing, if not absolutely nothing to do with money. I actually feel sorry for someone who’d have to put a monetary value upon themselves in order to feel a sense of self-worth. That’s really, really sad.
A chick that would demand such and such for jewelry, dining, other presents, lifestyle, that’s just plain materialistic and spoiled, and it has nothing whatsoever to do with a positive sense of self-worth. Some guy will spend money on you all day every day and think you’re a gold digging ho, with not half a brain in your head, and so would invest nothing of his thoughts into you, share nothing of his soul, because you’re just not worth it. You get treated like a child instead, bribed with gifts and lifestyle. That’s kind of pathetic, don’t you think?
By Tazzee
October 20, 2008 11:01 AM | Link to this
Leggs IMO, there’s nothing wrong with placing yourself on a pedestal. Shoot - I’m my biggest fan (shouts out to SexyCool) - I treat myself well and expect the best from myself.
But I don’t expect others to place me on a pedestal. As a matter of fact, I hate when guys do that because they do it before we get to really know one another.
By Binford2K8
October 20, 2008 11:03 AM | Link to this
Foots The guys I know that have gone abroad generally say that women are nicer, more kind and less shallow than American Women. A lot of the superfluous/ludicrous expectations that are present in this country don’t exist in a lot of places in the world.
By Foots
October 20, 2008 11:04 AM | Link to this
Tazzee As far as dating, I’ve never really been spoiled by a guy I was dating, but I am appreciative of all romantic gestures.
I haven’t been “spoiled” in the sense of a man buying things for me either. Last summer, I did date a guy who took me to lunch nearly work every day in the two months that we dated. He never let me pay for a meal, and when I asked why, he said that men take care of things like that (Binford- He was African). When we stopped dating, I didn’t go to the extremes of expecting daily lunch from the next dude, I was just marveling over eating in so many different places in a short period of time PLUS all the money I saved from not buying lunch during work. Just full of gratitude.
So it’s hard for me to even see how what one dude did for me materially should translate into what the next should do. I can’t even form my mouth to tell a new dude what another dude did that I would also like new dude to do. I don’t doubt these guys on here are telling the truth about the women they deal with, but dang, I don’t get it.
By Leggs
October 20, 2008 11:07 AM | Link to this
Ok, gotcha abc because I went back and re-read my post, and I didn’t glean any of that from it. Thanks! I believe I’m still on the same page w/most of you (perhaps not Rell LOL).
By Gold Digga
October 20, 2008 11:10 AM | Link to this
Well, I am very high maintenance and LOVE it. I am worth it. And I demand I be treated like a princess.
If a man cannot ante up and support me in a way I want to be accustomed, then keep on walking. I demand five star service. If you can’t keep up, then stay home.
I love the latest fashions, the latest everything. I have well over 100 pair of shoes, no less than $300.00/ea. I refuse to shop at Target, or god forbid TJ Maxx (ICK) etc. Strictly Buckhead baby.
In the words of Kanye - “She ain’t messing with no broke…”
I will not date a man who brings home less than $150,000/yr, it’s just a waste of my time. I’m looking for my millionaire.
By Tazzee
October 20, 2008 11:11 AM | Link to this
Foots I can’t even form my mouth to tell a new dude what another dude did that I would also like new dude to do.
Same here! The last guy I dated took me shopping. I thought we were just going to the outlet mall to hang out. When we got there, he was like ‘so what do you want?’ and my response was I don’t have any room in my suitcase. After a few more statements I realized that he wanted to buy something for me…that was very awkward for me. I didn’t want to offend him but I also didn’t know how to handle that.
By Dan
October 20, 2008 11:14 AM | Link to this
@Gold Digga
Better get him, before the goods get old.
Cause once the fruit ain’t ripe no mo’….it sits on the vine to DIE!
By Foots
October 20, 2008 11:15 AM | Link to this
Dan The women that come here, come with the intent of being submissive to their husbands, in their every request…Women across the World often do manual labor as the men “sun” themselves and reap the benefits.
Are you saying that basically, American men take women who would be hard workers in their own country and make them become dependent on them, so the women can become American citizens, stay home with the kids, usually for the 1st year, sometimes more? Then, he can go work hard and spend virtually no time with either her or the kids?
Binford You’d then have to infer that your friends have met every American woman. Your friends can believe what they want, but physically, they have no better characteristics than the men from the woman’s home country. The only difference is their earning power and the ability to make them citizens of America. That is what makes them attractive. Foreign women look for American men to take care of them, and save them from that life that Dan just spoke about, them working hard and the men “sunning” themselves. In order to get that, why not be nice and kind AND submissive? If you were them, wouldn’t you be whatever you thought you needed to be to get the life you think you deserve?
MELO What is wrong in my view, is the women who cannot do the things they are expecting the men to do and expect that upfront and any men that do not is treated like they are bottom tier
I have a problem with that too.
By RELL - selling attention time
October 20, 2008 11:21 AM | Link to this
@GOLD DIGGA….lol….tell em why you mad son….now that is funnny….good hunting playette…do your thing….in the words of jay-z…..
ma, i hope you really ride nice dyck/know how to work da hips/an the head priceless….lol
By Leggs
October 20, 2008 11:22 AM | Link to this
Gold Digga, do you, but sheesh! You just might find your millionaire, but best believe all that materialism you crave will have your millionaire looking for someone else when your wrinkles start surfacing. Oh wait, they won’t because you will spend his $$ on plastic surgery. Oh well, mami, do you!
By MELO
October 20, 2008 11:23 AM | Link to this
Gold Digga and how many times a day do u freshen up ur goods??? U must have a strong back!!
By Binford2K8
October 20, 2008 11:23 AM | Link to this
Foots For every one girl that isn’t shallow or think in the terms I’ve defined above - there are ten that do. I’d bet my life on that from what I have seen all over in my years of existence.
The thing is, it was only a generation or two ago, where the man(in general) was the provider and thus the foundation for the tradition was laid down.
2008: Now, those old ways have changed, but the attitudes for a lot of women/men is the same. They’re brought up to expect these things (dating, rings, etc). It’s an interesting time in history in this regard. Roles ARE redefined in a lot of cases and a lot of society is slow to change with it for fear of looking bad in the eyes of the culture.
By Dan
October 20, 2008 11:26 AM | Link to this
@Foots
What I’m describing are cultural differences.
Allow me to expound: Outside the US, particularly in countries that rely on farming for sustenance, there is a patriarchial (Men Rule) setup to their society. The men of the family are the end all, be all, authority figures. Shoot, even the son gets to tell the mother what to do.
In America “women are equals”.
So when a weak American man brings a woman from one of the aforementioned societies to America and treats her according to his culture, she can/does consider him weak. If he treated her according to her culture, it’d be abuse in America, and the neighborhood women would not stand for it (ex. The Eddie Murphy (Raw) Bush B***).
That said, the lure of American citizenship does have a part to play, but it is not the predominate role that one might think.
He can bring her, but she won’t necessarily stay with him. What have you done for me lately, Eddie? I am American woman now!
By Wise Diva
October 20, 2008 11:31 AM | Link to this
actually, i posed the question Isn’t it a good thing when a woman knows her worth, now tying self-worth solely into materialism and finance was not my intention. TO clarify, When a woman knows her self-worth, she generally expects to be treated with kindness, primarily because she is kind to others, and that can include generosity, but it certainly doesn’t solely rest on it.
As for how I show appreciation, it definitely depends on the man, and what dating stage we are in. If I have acquired enough info that places a man in the “keeper” category, I generally find out what he needs help on and provide it. For example, I was dating a sports photographer who was just starting his own business. So I rode along to sporting events, helping him with equipment, networked on his behalf, etc. Another guy I dated had a busy schedule but INSISTED on a new puppy, and guess who did the crate training for him, yeah, yours truly.
By MELO
October 20, 2008 11:36 AM | Link to this
If he treated her according to her culture, it’d be abuse in America what does the man do to solicit the abuse label Dan??
What u describe is partly true about what happens in my fam now. Im the authority figure!There is no abuse as far as we know(maybe im biased in my fav).In less educated households in africa for example, the wife stays at home and takes care of kids,domestic stuff etc.In more educated households,both wife and husband may go to wrk but the wife is still very much in charge of domestic stuff.The only diffrence is that the wife may have in house domestic servants and proly a gardner to supervize.The man is still in charge of manly stuff like the yard,direction of household,the rural home and overal financial stuff of the family etc.
By Troll
October 20, 2008 11:36 AM | Link to this
Ya’ll are PATHETIC. Get a life.
Get off this blog and go meet some quality people….
By Dan
October 20, 2008 11:37 AM | Link to this
@WD
Question: If w woman, or a man, for that matter knows their worth, treating others with respect, kindness and diginity requires no reciprocity.
You treat people that way because that is who you are which ironically, is part of your value
So are you saying that a woman that treats a man with respects, somehow deserves some form of material reciprocation?
I don’t get it?
So because I bed her correctly and she buys me nice stuff, I should expect shoes with every O?
By Foots
October 20, 2008 11:38 AM | Link to this
Truth Why don’t more people get prenups? In my first financial planning class, my instructor, who is a single woman, loves to talk about the need for them. My class is 80% (or more) male, and they just go crazy when she mentions prenups. Thinks that she will never get married with that attitude.
I’m for prenups. I no longer think of it as a “what if we get divorced” contract. It is what it is: A “here are our expectations for this marriage” contract. People don’t know that you can put anything you want in an agreement like that, even custody arrangements if the worst should happen. It doesn’t even have to be materially based. But I’m of the belief that whatever we bring into the marriage, we share for that time. If it’s ever over, we take those portions back out. What we accumulated together, we split.
Marriages in pre-modern times were contracts, which explicitly spelled out what was expected in the marriage and if the marriage was dissolved. What’s wrong with having that now?
By Dan
October 20, 2008 11:41 AM | Link to this
@Melo
The public backhanding for disagreeing with the male…
The private beatings afterward…
The lopping off of body parts…
Shall I go on?
Of course this does not happen in all patriachial societies, but it happens a hellva lot more than here in the US.
By Leggs
October 20, 2008 11:42 AM | Link to this
Another guy I dated had a busy schedule but INSISTED on a new puppy, and guess who did the crate training for him, yeah, yours truly. NOT!!!!
By MELO
October 20, 2008 11:43 AM | Link to this
When a woman knows her self-worth, she generally expects to be treated with kindness i dont knw about that.Every body is expected to treat others with kindness and respect wether they have high regard of the person or not. I thought self worth in a woman’s instance is treating hrself not as if she is on sale or available to the highest bidder.If u treat urself like Gold Digga explained about herself,then ur self worth is measured by u demands and ur ability to deliver to match ur price tag. Come on Diva,tell us ur self wrth coz u playing with wrds and not saying exactly hw u do ur thang!!
By China Doll
October 20, 2008 11:49 AM | Link to this
I am spoiled and consider myself high maintenance but I do not put that off on the guy/s I’m dating. I spoil myself cause I can afford too.
I do not expect a guy I’m dating to indulge me. That would be selfish and self serving.
Let me clarify: High Maintenance for me is getting my hair done weekly, getting mani/pedi’s/waxes every two weeks, treating myself at will (spa treatments, shopping, traveling, etc).
But at the same time, guys you know “materialism” when you see it, so you can’t cry “foul” when it is confirmed a few dates down the road.
There is a difference between “materialism” and “independentism.” I practice “independentism”.
By Foots
October 20, 2008 11:51 AM | Link to this
Dan He can bring her, but she won’t necessarily stay with him. What have you done for me lately, Eddie? I am American woman now!
Tell Binford all that. He’s the one who brought it up. I don’t care about weak or strong. The point is, foreign women know about the American way of life, or else they wouldn’t be trying so hard to get here by marrying men they don’t know. His friends tout foreign women as superior to American women, but then they bring them here in the midst of the materialism of our society, which he must participate in or he’d have no means to even attract or support a woman who wouldn’t be able to support herself here. They teach them materialism and equality. Then he has the same exact result if he mistreats her and she says “Half!” Broke, alone, AND cussed out in a language he doesn’t understand.
Now if what those men really want is a slave that they can keep hidden away from modern society in servitude, then they can probably have that in many places in the world, just not here (not for long anyway). And they say that women are the ones who live fantasies.
By The Truth
October 20, 2008 11:52 AM | Link to this
Gold Digga you sound like one of my old potnahs girls. She was fine as all get out in the day. Thought she had the world coming. Now she’s 40 something and shyts dropping faster than the stock market. She is one bitter woman. Remember this, if a cats paying for azz he wants the latest and greatest. Sounds like you already have a few laps around the track so soon you’ll need a new engine or they’ll just trash you for parts. LOL Anyway, good luck with that search. BTW, $150,000 doesn’t go quite as far as you think. You may want to up your target market a little.
Hit me up when that azz is going for $4.95 a pop. LOL
Dan/Bin women in america or anywhere else submit for one reason only. It behooves them to do so. There are flip women all over. You have to give that woman motivation to submit. Finances are usually a good reason but there are others. At some point she has to respect the product you bring to market, no matter what that may be. Making wide sweeping statements like american women don’t do this while foreigners do is just misleading. Any woman or person will get away with anything you let them.
By MELO
October 20, 2008 11:52 AM | Link to this
Dan evrything u describe on ur 11.41 are stereotypes that dnt necessarily hold true.I grew up in the rurals in africa and even tho such things do happen from time to time,they are not condoned.In the rurals,there are tribal rules,the police as we know them are miles away in the city, so the tribal chiefs enforce laws.In towns,the official laws apply.Such things,altho proly more prevalent in developing than developed cntries, are not the norm.Men will chide other men for beating or ill treating the weaker sexx,trust me.However, when it cmes to attitudes, i agree,there is still a long way to go coz of disparities in education.
By abc
October 20, 2008 11:56 AM | Link to this
Nice backpedal, WD, and I know everybody will cut you as much slack as you wish, but that’s not even what the topic said.
The topic reads as ‘once I would have said not to date a chick you cannot afford, but is it not good for a chick to know her worth’, with a lot of other stuff in-between.
By Binford2K8
October 20, 2008 11:56 AM | Link to this
Foots I think a prenup is a great idea for the reasons you mentioned. Nothing wrong with setting guidelines and expectations.
Oh, and I thought of an example of how things have not caught up to men and women being “equal”. We’ve had discussion on this blog about women approaching men, and while some women were game for that, a fair amount still were entrenched in the philosophy that men should ask women out. If it is equal …it shouldn’t matter. But it is learned behavior.
By Kym
October 20, 2008 11:58 AM | Link to this
Good Morning All,
Nope, never been spoiled by a guy before. I believe in mutual appreciation without a scorecard. Now granted I am not going to hang around long if I feel that the person I am giving to is simply using me. But, if we are both on the same page and doing what is necessary to benefit each other no need for anyone to feel slighted.
Like Foots and Tazzee expressed before I am not asking or expecting a guy I am casually dating to fork over major bucks for a present or because we are in the mall buy me this or that.
By MELO
October 20, 2008 12:02 PM | Link to this
China Doll u dating right now???
By Dan
October 20, 2008 12:07 PM | Link to this
@Melo
I wasn’t citing a particular culture (or ethnic group or religion) I was citing empirical data that suggest such behaviors are prevelant - for the reasons that you and I have stated.
@Foots
Asking for half gets one chopped up and on 285 in one of them ditches…
@Truth
I don’t want no submissive woman, I like a little battle, a little pushback. But when it comes down to it, my logic will overwhelm her thought process to the point that she has to see things my way. Or at least will start considering that before coming with a bogus argument.
By The Truth
October 20, 2008 12:08 PM | Link to this
Foots better than a pre-nup is asking what do I want to get out of marriage period? If you want companionship, someone to cook for, hug on on a cold night, you don’t need to get married. Still the best reasons o get married are to pass on wealth or for children. Thing is once you have kids the pre-nup can’t cover you. The courts DO NOT recognize any pre-determined child support arrangements. They go with the numbers and that means the guy usually gets stuck paying for a child he didn’t even want alot of the times.
The question that should be asked is what do I want to get from marriage? Alot of times you can get that from hooker in a dark alley. LOL
By Wise Diva
October 20, 2008 12:09 PM | Link to this
no, Dan, I think that a woman receives material things as a by-product, because men sometimes show appreciation with protection and financial support.
Usually people with self-worth behave in such a way that demonstrates it: You take care of yourself, you are kind/nurturing to others, you command respect because you offer it. You are assertive without being aggressive, you aren’t a doormat because you are able to handle situations in a way that is not off-putting. I think a lot of times, people with little self-worth attract the same type, then you have 2 individuals with distorted views and poor relationship skills wreaking havoc on each other
By China Doll
October 20, 2008 12:11 PM | Link to this
Melo
Yes…that’s what I said, right? Don’t be getting any bright ideas. LOL
By Dan
October 20, 2008 12:11 PM | Link to this
@Melo
I wasn’t citing a particular culture (or ethnic group or religion) I was citing empirical data that suggest such behaviors are prevelant - for the reasons that you and I have stated.
@Foots
Asking for half gets one chopped up and on 285 in one of them ditches…
@Truth
I don’t want no submissive woman, I like a little battle, a little pushback. But when it comes down to it, my logic will overwhelm her thought process to the point that she has to see things my way. Or at least will start considering that before coming with a bogus argument.
By Wise Diva
October 20, 2008 12:13 PM | Link to this
well, ok, abc..I was clarifying, that it was not my intent to imply that self worth is solely material-based
and when I wrote *once I would have said not to date a chick you cannot afford <= I said this is what “unenlightened” me would have said, and I would have been wrong because, “M” said women who were spoiled are used to getting their way, unenlightened me would have assumed that “their way” meant being showered with gifts/being taken care of, and I don’t think that is solely what he was referring to.
By Foots
October 20, 2008 12:18 PM | Link to this
Truth The courts DO NOT recognize any pre-determined child support arrangements.
How could they? Who knows what the financial situation will be then? And if the child will be born with special needs and thus require more monetary support.
But if the CENTRAL issue is child custody, which plenty of men cite because they want their children with them, that can be arranged. And if that is arranged as even 50-50, BAM!! No child support. Child support is paid to the custodial parent, right? If custody is joint, 50-50, isn’t that a wash?
By the way, if a man doesn’t want children, he knows what to do. If he has them, he should support them.
By The Truth
October 20, 2008 12:24 PM | Link to this
Foots thats where we disagree. I feel if a chick gets preg without having a valid agreement she should be on her own. Thats just me. I can now see why guys have walked away from their family never to be heard from again.
By Dan
October 20, 2008 12:25 PM | Link to this
@China Doll
Holla at cha boy, if single
@Foots
The overwhelming majority of custody cases are decided with “the best intentions of the child”, that conclusion draws upon the archaic notion that women physically and emotionally care for the child, while the man does so financially and is only partially responsible for the emotional development of the child.
It reinforces the stereotypical roles of men and women and allows no room for the advancement of childcare or women in the workplace.
The point is, that for all the righteous indigination of Womenists- this is the one area of there agenda that is conspicously overlooked.
By MELO
October 20, 2008 12:28 PM | Link to this
the world is more patriachial than America, right Dan.Those behaviors are not justified nor excused coz third world cntries are patriachail.They are wrong even in patriachial cntries.They are more prevalent coz of lack of education.In educated but patriachial families,such attitudes and behaviors are frowned upon and perpetrators prosecuted.
By abc
October 20, 2008 12:29 PM | Link to this
Now Diva, everyone knows what a soulful philosopher and protagonist of Zen Dating that you are. Certainly, overt materialism is not a part of your package and nothing you’d endorse.
Just sayin. The statements in the topic provided context indicating personal worth gained through the material and willful assertion. I’m sure what M meant by ‘getting her way’ was that the agenda was always hers, the objects of her desires were always obtained, what entertained her whims became the goal(s) of all those around her. Or else! I’ve known chicks like that. I still know some.
By China Doll
October 20, 2008 12:31 PM | Link to this
Dan
Holla at who? Just for clarity.
By Dan
October 20, 2008 12:35 PM | Link to this
@Truth
In a book called “When Chickenheads come home to Roost”, the author (a woman) cites the very argument that you are making.
Her hypothesis is that once pregnant, the male and female involved have equal rights regarding decision making. Should the woman prevail against the man’s wishes, then she can no longer file for child support or attempt emotional blackmale.
I happen to agree with that sentiment.
And depending on the woman, one mistake, when correctable, should not doom any party (her, me, the kid(s)) to a life that only one person has chosen. There is no equmenical justice.
the only comfort I have is knowing that during giving birth she will isht on herself…. Small comfort, but worth it
By Dan
October 20, 2008 12:36 PM | Link to this
@Truth
In a book called “When Chickenheads come home to Roost”, the author (a woman) cites the very argument that you are making.
Her hypothesis is that once pregnant, the male and female involved have equal rights regarding decision making. Should the woman prevail against the man’s wishes, then she can no longer file for child support or attempt emotional blackmale.
I happen to agree with that sentiment.
And depending on the woman, one mistake, when correctable, should not doom any party (her, me, the kid(s)) to a life that only one person has chosen. There is no equmenical justice.
the only comfort I have is knowing that during giving birth she will isht on herself…. Small comfort, but worth it
By Dan
October 20, 2008 12:38 PM | Link to this
@China Doll
At me….danbynight@netzero.com
@abc
An astute observation, but what woman do you know, really, that does not have her own agenda.
For most, it’s they world squirrel, you trying to get that nut!
By MELO
October 20, 2008 12:45 PM | Link to this
she will isht on herself a woman ishting on herself during delivery is lame.Giving birth aint that hard..lol
By China Doll
October 20, 2008 12:46 PM | Link to this
Dan mail call
By Leggs
October 20, 2008 12:48 PM | Link to this
“Faith” by Wham is on…I’m jamming while eating lunch! Love this song!
By Leggs
October 20, 2008 12:55 PM | Link to this
I’m sorry, by George Michael!
By Kym
October 20, 2008 12:59 PM | Link to this
Dan That equal decision making also comes when you are getting naked. If the man does not want kids then make the decision to wrap it up. Not only that when you pull it off make sure you take it with you and burn it or bury it.
Hey there is a invention idea, disposble baggies for condoms. When you want to make sure that chick don’t get your seed!!—but I digress
If you do that then you never have to hear…* Break out the checkbook Dan the results say you are 99% THE FATHER of little Bookie Jones*
By Dan
October 20, 2008 1:01 PM | Link to this
@China
Didn’t get it….
By Foots
October 20, 2008 1:04 PM | Link to this
Truth I feel if a chick gets preg without having a valid agreement she should be on her own.
We certainly do disagree. The only way I can see that is in the case of immaculate conception. Unless she conceived a child by herself, the two people who contributed to the creation of the child should support that child. If you don’t want kids, you know what to do. You’ve reached your mid-40s without children. Teach some of the others.
By Leggs
October 20, 2008 1:04 PM | Link to this
You men should NEVER, EVER talk about the hardships of giving birth! To make light of it, to think you know the degree of pain involved only proves how STUPID you are! STFU when it comes to topics you know ABSOLUTELY nothing about. Stick to the lessons you want to espouse on love, marriage, breakups, gold diggers, immaturity, etc. Leave childbirth alone. Kicking the damn podium back to the corner!!!! Thank you very much.
By M.
October 20, 2008 1:12 PM | Link to this
@abc
You are right. You know girls that feel as everything has to go their way, when they grew up, things went their way, they never heard the word no, they never had to go without, etc…
By Foots
October 20, 2008 1:13 PM | Link to this
Kym That equal decision making also comes when you are getting naked.
That’s the kicker right there. Decisions have consequences. As adults, we learn this. Sex comes with an understood risk. If two consenting adults who don’t want children fail to protect themselves while having sex, and a consequence is a child, it is a direct result of their poor decision. We can’t start the argument with “once the woman is pregnant”. The cat is already out of the bag then. The argument starts with “once two people decide to have sex”. At that point, the right decision can be made for the couple, based on what they both want.
The ONLY case I could make for what Dan is spilling is if they agree to wear condoms and the woman pokes holes in them. Even if she is on BC, if he doesn’t want kids, he needs to protect himself. Easy solution: If he doesn’t want kids, he brings his own condoms. Everytime. And they use them. Everytime. Regardless of whether or not she says she is on BC.
By Blue_Kolla
October 20, 2008 1:16 PM | Link to this
Leggs You men should NEVER, EVER talk about the hardships of giving birth!
I will give you that.
To make light of it, to think you know the degree of pain involved only proves how STUPID you are! STFU
You can stop right there slick. I don’t know who da fvkk you think you talkin’ to, but I ain’t him. Do you see where I’m goin’ with this? When a chick tells a dude to shuddafukkup, he’s got some serious problems on his hands. So let me put’cho azz on ice Miss Leggs.
By M.
October 20, 2008 1:17 PM | Link to this
@abc
You are right. You know girls that feel as everything has to go their way, when they grew up, things went their way, they never heard the word no, they never had to go without, etc…
By SexyCool
October 20, 2008 1:20 PM | Link to this
spoiled is not a word that i associate with a positive quality…i prefer to think of myself as pampered…
By Leggs
October 20, 2008 1:21 PM | Link to this
Foots, your post is accurate on all points. More men have been bamboozled by these 4 words “I’m on the pill.” They get so greedy for the puddy, never bother to do a fact check. Taking someone’s word as the “old gentlemen’s agreement” from back in the day will yield you the results you so richly deserve!
By The Truth
October 20, 2008 1:24 PM | Link to this
Foots the system has broken down. It’s not like there’s a bunch of virgins being taken adavantage of. These are grown women that are out choosing to have casual sex. There’s gotta be some kind of rules to this madness. If I get AIDS I can’t ask for support. I made a decision to sleep with someone and get what I get. Same for a chick, she gets what she gets. Like you’ve said, I made it this far without kids I didn’t want so really thats all I can ask for.
Lets look at it another way. I’ve never been arrested, got caught committing a crime, or anything else that would make me criminal. The only way that could happen now is 1) Go out and shoot someone for no reason 2) Have a child with some chick that thinks that now we’re bonded for life. When you look at it from my point of view its easy to see where the biggest pitfall lies.
By China Doll
October 20, 2008 1:25 PM | Link to this
Dan
FYI-Someone is playin’, I did not send 12:46 post.
Grown folk like to play childish games SMH
By Blue_Kolla
October 20, 2008 1:25 PM | Link to this
Foots If he doesn’t want kids, he brings his own condoms. Everytime.
Yeap, because any condom that has been out of dude’s possession is compromised. The chain of custody can not be verified - so for all you young bucks reading this from the school library, if you left that rubber at your girl’s crib the last time out, consider it trash; buy a new one.
By Leggs
October 20, 2008 1:29 PM | Link to this
Naw, baby, no ice for me! I meant what I said. Not only that, that post was meant for Melo. Now, apparently you felt compelled to respond. If I told you to “kiss my a$$,” then you might have the right to put me on ice. Was taught never to offer a man your a$$. However, I will tell you and any other person I care to to STFU. Hell, everyone on here says it just about every other day. Some jokingly and some on point. Don’t single me out cuz I’m not having it!
By Dan
October 20, 2008 1:30 PM | Link to this
Unless she conceived a child by herself, the two people who contributed to the creation of the child should support that child.
And this ^^ was the authors argument.
It takes two to make the child, but only one gets a choice as to whether the child is brought forth unto the Earth.
And while I respect the difficulty of that decision and all that goes with it (Ms. Leggs), make no mistake that the decision is one sided, unfair, and to a greater extent: emotional, financial, and physical hostage taking.
And Foots….a woman knows what she can do too to not get pregnant..
By Foots
October 20, 2008 1:37 PM | Link to this
Truth I made a decision to sleep with someone and get what I get.
Exactly. Including a child. If you want rules, there is nothing saying that you can’t draw up a contract with a woman you want to sleep with that in case of a pregnancy that you are not in favor of, she will be on her own and you have no liability. If she agrees to that, and y’all have it notarized, no problem. If she doesn’t, no sex. But it might be easier to look out for yourself and be responsible for your own protection if having kids isn’t in your cards, forever or just for right now.
But yes, you have made it this far, so you know what you’re doing. So go ahead and show the others just how it’s done.
By Foots
October 20, 2008 1:40 PM | Link to this
Dan And Foots….a woman knows what she can do too to not get pregnant..
And that’s why I said that if they don’t want kids and still ends up pregnant, it was THEIR poor decision that got that way. If she’s not doing what she should to not get pregnant, then you should DOUBLE your efforts. Either way, take responsibility. This is one area where if you don’t contribute seed to the situation, no matter what she does, nothing can grow.
By Foots
October 20, 2008 1:46 PM | Link to this
It takes two to make the child, but only one gets a choice as to whether the child is brought forth unto the Earth. And while I respect the difficulty of that decision and all that goes with it (Ms. Leggs), make no mistake that the decision is one sided, unfair, and to a greater extent: emotional, financial, and physical hostage taking.
While Blue is giving well-advised lessons to the young bucks, young ladies, please understand that there are men who will consider your decision to have his child (if he wants you to have an abortion and you want the baby to live) as emotional and physical hostage taking. These men will also be able to quote books that justify them walking away from their own baby.
When dude says he doesn’t want kids, but refuses to strap up, keep your dayum legs closed!! PLEASE!!!!!
By mytwocents
October 20, 2008 1:58 PM | Link to this
Only having read til like 10:30 and that merits a WOW.
What’s comical to me is that for the most part, the women I know with this false sense of entitlement are the very ones whose whims are catered to, only for dude to wake up one day, remember that he’s supposed to be a man and shake the chick off. Then he returns to the realm of the levelheaded ladies ~ embittered and accusatory of her motives beyond wanting to have someone special be the last call of the night.
Which reminds me of my ever strengthening theory about gender specific vocabularies. If woman expresses she’d like a man to put forth effort (besides straining over/underneath her,) somehow most men hear she wants to be chased. Clean out the wax.
BK you keepin ya composure over there? If so, I’m prouda ya. Cuz this topic could incite a riot.
By China Doll
October 20, 2008 1:59 PM | Link to this
so now we have moved from jus being pampered with material gifts to gifted and pampered with child.Child support time,now chink chink…………
By Dan
October 20, 2008 2:00 PM | Link to this
Woaw there Footsy!
Never said I wouldn’t, I just don’t plan on it. Dan practices making babies….not actually having them..
That said, like raising the child is a shared responsibility, preventing unwanted pregnancies is as well.
The point that I was attempting to elaborate on (which you have yet to respond to) is the standard that says: 2+2 = 1 + 1= 3
That is both adults create what one adult decides to live or let live, condeming the other adult with a life without choice.
And no court recognizes prenatal agreements either…the “mother” could always claim duress.
By Dan
October 20, 2008 2:03 PM | Link to this
@Foots
It ain’t that I don’t want kids personally, I do it’s just that the practice and the game are 3 different things.
Especially with the way some of these babes act when you’re just dating…..
By Blow Me
October 20, 2008 2:06 PM | Link to this
Good Afternoon All…
I am really enjoyin this topic..I am on the sideliines….listen in…or rather reading in. Keep on talking fellas…keep on.
By lurker
October 20, 2008 2:12 PM | Link to this
LADIES I tip my hat to all of you today, especially LEGGS for kicking the podium to the corner. The nerve of some men. Riiight, to know one (of us women) is to know all. I’ll just bet my sweet honey pot, the men are thinking this way with all their summations and generalizations.
By Foots
October 20, 2008 2:13 PM | Link to this
Dan How do you know they won’t recognize it? Have you tried that? That’s what the notary is for.
But I was saying that to be facetious. If it’s that big of a deal to you, and you don’t want to be taken as an emotional and physical hostage to your child, you’d do what was in your power to protect yourself. No elaboration needed.
That said, like raising the child is a shared responsibility, preventing unwanted pregnancies is as well.
It is a shared responsibility to raise the child and it is a shared responsibility for contraception. But if you are with a woman who wants a child and YOU DON’T, it falls on you to make sure that the child never happens. It becomes your responsibility to protect your seed and your livelihood. Don’t just have unprotected sex, then when the woman gets pregnant, say to her, “I said I didn’t want kids”. It’s too late then. As Truth said: I made a decision to sleep with someone and get what I get.
By For Real
October 20, 2008 2:17 PM | Link to this
Awwwwww dayummm there Wise go with that “woman’s worth” crap again. As for spoiled women they get the gas face. I like what Foots and Taz stated. I will treat you the way you treat yourself. So, if treating yourself is a #2 with cheese and a biggie fry, then don’t come telling me you are accustom dinners at Chops. Hey Ared! To expound on the spoil chick thing. YO DADDY AIN’T YOUR MAN AND I AIN’T YO DADDY! ONE TAKES CARE OF CHILD AND THE OTHER TAKES CARE OF HIS WOMAN! IF YOU WANT TO KNOW WHAT KIND OF MAN YO DADDY IS ASK YO MAMA OR HIS GIRLFRIEND!
Foots If you want rules, there is nothing saying that you can’t draw up a contract with a woman you want to sleep with that in case of a pregnancy that you are not in favor of, she will be on her own and you have no liability. If she agrees to that, and y’all have it notarized, no problem.
This comment lost your argument. Roe vs Wade… and here is a legal term in family court to become familiar with: BEST INTEREST OF THE CHILD This trumps all agreements between the two parties. In the state of Ga. custody is defined as “Legal and Physical”. A dude can have Joint Legal and Physical but child support is paid to Primary Caregiver which is the woman 98.9% of the time even if physical time is 50/50. Also, did you know a woman can drop a new born baby off at hospital, hotel, police dept., or Waffle House and receive no penalty? She can terminate her parental rights but when the state find out who the father is they can collect child support from the father. Why don’t they go after the chick?
By Dan
October 20, 2008 2:20 PM | Link to this
@Foots
One, there is no legal contract or precedent for a prenatal agreement for support or non-support, and I know not one judge that woudl set a standard.
Two, even with a notarized signature, she can still claim duress, the notary only approves that the people signed in the presecence of a third party and even then the notary seal guarantees nothing but the signatures.
Three, if I’m with a woman that wants to bear my child and I don’t want her too, I wear three condoms and a Wal-Mart sack, flush them all when I’m done, a pour bleach on her sheets….just in case she try something after I leave…
That last statement was facetious, but nooooot really…
By Foots
October 20, 2008 2:20 PM | Link to this
Dan condeming the other adult with a life without choice
That adult has a choice. Right about six weeks before the words “I’m pregnant” came out the woman’s mouth. Right about the time when that adult said “I don’t like the way condoms feel, I can’t feel nothing” or “Oh, you on the Pill? Cool!”
Sex carries an assumption of risk. If you choose to have sex, you are accepting that you understand that. If you choose to have unprotected sex, you are inviting the risk and rolling out the red carpet for it.
It’s possible that if more people really understood the risks involved, they would be more discriminate about who they swapped fluids with. It’s not just a “recreational” activity, it can be a “rest of yo life” activity.
By MELO
October 20, 2008 2:21 PM | Link to this
besides straining over/underneath her why u gotta go there mytwo.And why u equate it to strain when its feeling pleasurable?? Sweet nothings i wld suggest.
By Dan
October 20, 2008 2:26 PM | Link to this
@Foots
I Don’t disagree with the 2:20PM.
But will you at least answer the straightforward question:
When a man and a woman concieve a child, is it fair to both the man and the woman that the woman has the only say in the matter?
By Foots
October 20, 2008 2:27 PM | Link to this
Dan I WAS JOKING!!!! Just so you can be clear and not have to expound further about your knowledge of pre-natal child support. Here, I’ll add a LOL!!. Does that help?
By China Doll
October 20, 2008 2:29 PM | Link to this
I’m glad you like my monkier so much
By The Truth
October 20, 2008 2:30 PM | Link to this
Dan Of course for a woman she’s happy because she always wanted a child. Now she has a dollar donor too. The thing to do is treat them like shyt till you meet the one you want to roll the dice on. If you try to be stand up in this enviroment you get rolled over. Nut on her back and don’t let her move till it dries. LOL
What’s funny is all these laws are in place to protect the kids and the kids are more fugged up than ever. The same emotionally broken woman thats trying to force a guy to be her babies daddy is going to be a big influence in that childs life, and you can’t protect him from that. You can’t protect these kids anyway. If a parent smokes the child is going to get second hand smoke. If he’s a pedophile chances are they’re going to get molested. If they’re abusive same thing. You can’t protect kids from the ones they most need to be protected from. Alot of this is the roll of the dice. Sometimes you just crap out.
Foots As I said I can see why a man would walk away from a family and never even call to see how they’re doing. He’s just doing what he has to preserve himself.
By MELO
October 20, 2008 2:31 PM | Link to this
It’s not just a “recreational” activity, it can be a “rest of yo life” activity yeah,swapping few seconds of plsure for a lyfe of misery.
By Dan
October 20, 2008 2:36 PM | Link to this
@Foots
For the “LOL”….
you know
By Foots
October 20, 2008 2:42 PM | Link to this
For Real This comment lost your argument. Roe vs Wade…
I guess you didn’t get to the part where I said I was being facetious. Truth wanted some rules. Suggest some to him in the same facetious vein.
But I find it fascinating that men who don’t have children are so well-versed in the ins and outs of abortion rights, child support and custody laws.
Dan It’s not fair. It is built into the risk of engaging in the act.
I could list millions of things that occur to us in everyday life that are not fair that we have nothing to do with. Some people won’t make it home today and that’s not fair either.
But if that man had a choice of whether or not to protect himself and chose not to, how understanding would you be about his rant about how unfair the woman is being when she chooses not to abort their baby? ESPECIALLY when you yourself have done the things necessary and have forgone certain pleasures to refrain from bringing an unwanted child into the world?
By Blow Me
October 20, 2008 2:43 PM | Link to this
Nut on her back and don’t let her move till it dries. LOL
Come on now…that’s ridiculious!! Very disrespectful as well
By MELO
October 20, 2008 2:43 PM | Link to this
Truth,here in GA, some of these wmen dnt feel the pain that Leggs was talking about,i guess the lure of the child support$$ is more than the momentary plsurable pain of child birth.They pop babies 4,5,6,7,8 like its going outa fashion.And diff men wl line up,paying their weekly dues to sit at home mum.This is a fcked up law promoting promiscuity and female dollar pimpology.
By Blow Me
October 20, 2008 2:49 PM | Link to this
Right on a Foots..
The man is the giver of LIFE
Case close the end……
By MELO
October 20, 2008 2:52 PM | Link to this
Obama has started to promote neoptism be4 he even gets in the white house!! I endorsed his candidacy last week and never got no mileadge in the news 4 it, despite my clout in the african community.Now i see he is promising Colin Powell a job,the same man who put up his azz on the line for Bush at the UN in 2003 but left with his tail tween his leggs. Im thinking of rescinding my endorsement!!
By Dan
October 20, 2008 2:54 PM | Link to this
@Blow
I beg to differ. If the man is the “giver of life”, then why do we live in a system that denies his right of choice regarding procreation.
@PG
Can we get a case law study of prenatal agreements?
Or at least give a brother a website and I’ll do the research myself.
By For Real
October 20, 2008 2:54 PM | Link to this
Dan I got to agree with Foots here. We.. well I am always saying how women need to accept responsibility for their actions and believe men should as well.
For Real now reaching inside Foots pants to give her a wedggie. Dang, it seems Foots don’t wear panties. For Real giving Foots another check.
By The Truth
October 20, 2008 2:59 PM | Link to this
I propose the ho law. If you act like one you get treated like one. You have nothing coming in a court of law.
Blow Hard Come on now…that’s ridiculious!! Very disrespectful as well. So I guess going out and getting pregnant by someone that doesn’t want a child with you shows respect.
By Blow Me
October 20, 2008 2:59 PM | Link to this
Dan Come on!! I see you are passing the buck….Strap up and take responsibiltiy for your actions.
It would never get to the “SYSTEM”….if you watch and be mindful what you are doing and who you are sleeping with.
See a woman CAN NOT get pregnant without you being irresponsible. I am sick of hearing you guys passin the damn buck…Strap up and watch where ya land the babies..and this will be smooth sailing.
By For Real
October 20, 2008 3:00 PM | Link to this
Nut on her back and don’t let her move till it dries.
Dayummm Truth why i can picture you blowing on her back to speed up the drying process.
Foots Do you argue this well when you drunk? If so hit me at for_real730@yahoo.com
By Dan
October 20, 2008 3:00 PM | Link to this
@For Real
It’s not the concept of taking responsibility for an error…it’s the fact that I have no say in the outcome of her decision to have (or not have) the child.
My parental rights are gone at the moment of conception.
Roe v. Wade was decided based on the right to privacy inherent in the Constitution, nowhere in the arguments for, or against, have I heard consideration for the man’s right to privacy or choice for that matter.
By Tazzee
October 20, 2008 3:01 PM | Link to this
Foots I admire your patience and fortitude.
By Dan
October 20, 2008 3:02 PM | Link to this
@For Real
With her gassiness, I’m not surprised…j/k Foots
Be careful reaching in, you may pull back a stinky nub….Foots sounds like she eat a lot of fiber!
By Dan
October 20, 2008 3:09 PM | Link to this
@Blow
If you read the tenor of my comments, I’m not trying to pass anything…
I’m mad that I have no say! I’m PO’d because I have no choice in the matter once she makes her decision.
By Chink
October 20, 2008 3:09 PM | Link to this
Afternoon!
I see I missed alot.
I have been spoiled and I like to spoil my man too…its two sided.
My worth can be seen without me saying a word….its just known when a man sees me. I carry myself very well ..
Unbelieveable what I am hearing about children right now..I guess a man doesnt own his own sperm either….
But I digress my opinion is you can keep your money and poof be gone…sorry azz boyz.
It seems also very selfish a disregard to human life period to not feel or want to be part of your own flesh and blood no matter how she/he was conceived. But that will be your load to carry.
By MELO
October 20, 2008 3:09 PM | Link to this
I propose the ho law. If you act like one you get treated like one thats Truth’s shot at you spoiled princess Wise Diva
By Kym
October 20, 2008 3:11 PM | Link to this
Truth How hard is it to slap on a condom? If you dont want to get a woman knocked up just wrap it up. That way no harm no foul everyone gets what they want.
Dan Here.. research away
Georgia Code
By Kym
October 20, 2008 3:15 PM | Link to this
Dan
Forgot to tell ya. Start in Domestic Relations.
By MELO
October 20, 2008 3:19 PM | Link to this
not feel or want to be part of your own flesh and blood no matter how she/he was conceived thats the female rationale which makes u open ur leggs and allow the men to hit without a condom.I dnt get it.Sexx is not an agreement/contract to have a baby.Its a contract to jut have pleasure and assumes the sperms will be recycled and not used productively.If there is no agreement to have a baby,please abort or else u caryy the burden on ur own.
By The Truth
October 20, 2008 3:21 PM | Link to this
Kym why don’t you just pop a pill? No harm, no foul. Just what I thought. I’m simply saying if you go out there for recreational activities it should remain that way. Don’t call the law in now because that big bad man got you pregnant and now doesn’t want to have anything to do with you. It was sport.
Thing is this is killing our community mor than anyone else. You ladies are here fighting for your right to have unwanted children but you never fight that hard to make your relationships work after you have the kids. The nyou know you’ve got tthe guy bent over backwards. All we’re doing is producing the next generation of inmates.
By Wise Diva
October 20, 2008 3:23 PM | Link to this
ha! Thanks Melo, didn’t see that hit at me until you kindly pointed it out. Stay classy
By Tazzee
October 20, 2008 3:27 PM | Link to this
Truth and you men are fighting for your right to have unprotected sex without facing the consequences. I’ve never had an abortion, but I can’t imagine the decision to do so is as easy as you men think. Not only that, I don’t know one woman that’s had one and was able to act like it never happened. They all had that aborted child on their mind when they got older and were ready to start a family the right way.
By Blow Me
October 20, 2008 3:27 PM | Link to this
Come on KYM that was too much like right girl….Gone somewhere….That is just to easy to do!! Being responsible???!!? Get out of here!!! They want to be irresponsible and whiny babies and they want it to FEEL good…They could have stop all of the unwanted babies and the “system”. SMH
Truth As you tell it…A man of your caliber should not be caught dead laying on top of a useless…runt slutted out woman. You should not know anything about WHORISH tendencies…lol…snicker snicker.
YOU men need to wake up and becareful of what you wish for….You guys want the biggest nasty woman in the bed…..So deal with the outcome…If not choose your mates more wisely. Be on the same wavelength..about marriage and kids. Too busy worried about who has the phattest a$$ and who is the nastiest in bed. If you start to screen you mates better THIS WOULD NOT BE HAPPENING!!!! LMAO!
Dan You do have a say! Keep a HAT on your little one! And be mindful of where and who you skeet off in! lol!
By MELO
October 20, 2008 3:30 PM | Link to this
thanx wise, u still havnt replied to my morning qs on hw, in ur dating experience, u spoil ur man back.Are there any particular favors sme of ur male dates prefer??
By MELO
October 20, 2008 3:33 PM | Link to this
having a baby without male consent is control mechanism that females use to pimp dollars.GA law allos it,unfortunately.
By Leggs
October 20, 2008 3:33 PM | Link to this
This is not true Truth——>You ladies are here fighting for your right to have unwanted children. I believe the ladies are fighting for rights of the child ONCE THEY ARRIVE fortunately no matter how they got here…they’re here now!
By Kym
October 20, 2008 3:34 PM | Link to this
Truth I am not fighting for anyone to have a child out of wedlock. I am a single parent and I have no desire to bring another mouth into the world.-My son eats enough for two kids- My point is men call us naive but how naive is it to run up in a woman with no protection on the assumption that she might be on the pill—cause she said so. Please…as Foots said both parties need to be responsible. If she says she is on the pill say cool then you don’t mind if I put on this condom and grab this spermicide do you. Just want to make sure we cover all the bases. But from your comments you think birth control should only be on the woman and dudes should be able to “free willie” anytime without regards to where willie is landing. Sorry buddy but it is thinking like(among other things) that has us with these generations upon generations of 15 year old baby mamas and 30 year old grandmas.
By Dan
October 20, 2008 3:35 PM | Link to this
@Tazz and Blow
Be careful how you generalize “all men”.
My specific concern relates to a preganancy that while not elated about, I was ready to deal. The woman of this particular event took away my choice and at that point, I had no legal remedy.
So while generalizations are popular, might wanna get your backstory together before you start painting with that broad a brush, ladies.
By For Real
October 20, 2008 3:36 PM | Link to this
Ladies it appears you agree that men should strap up but are you saying that woman shouldn’t take birth control if she is out having recreation sex?
By Chink
October 20, 2008 3:39 PM | Link to this
Melo
I assure you my rationale for having relations was not to make a baby. When it was to make a baby he was well aware of that fact.
By the way I can count numerous times the amount of dudes who have wanted me to have their baby and it was not pillow talk!
Good thing my legs are closed tightly!
By Wise Diva
October 20, 2008 3:39 PM | Link to this
I did to @ 11:31, I said it depended on the guy, I am a cancer, so I tend to be “sensitive” to the needs of others in terms of “anticipating” what they might need. I do that by observing, and I usually see what they need help with and offer it.
I usually don’t start the pampering/catering on a man until after we have stopped seeing other people. Can’t spoil everybody all at once. So I will do a “trading places” night when I will pick him up, take him out to something he is in to, or teach him about something new that I think he would enjoy. I also have been known to show up in nothing but a trenchcoat and pretend to be a naughty policewoman, cuffs optional. LOL, maaan, I miss having a boyfriend :(
By Blow Me
October 20, 2008 3:40 PM | Link to this
Leggs & Kym Truth is irresponsible as hell and does not want to have ACCOUNTABLITIY!! That needs to be the word of the day. Everyone is old enough to know the risk of having sex…So lets be more mature and SANE..about it. Its probably a good thing he does not have kids to be honest. But if you don’t want any DO things that WILL not put you in the position!! Stop passing the BUCK!
By MELO
October 20, 2008 3:43 PM | Link to this
Kym are u saying the woman has a right to lie??,coz if she say she is on the pill im believeing her coz our relaship is based on truth.Why wont the courts look at that point and say dude was hoodwinked so chick is on her own??
By KP (http://chatkafe.blogspot.com)
October 20, 2008 3:46 PM | Link to this
KP has arrived with popcorn in hand to witness the conclusion of Truth’s argument.
By For Real
October 20, 2008 3:47 PM | Link to this
Dirty Sex Talk with Kym……
Kym: Baby on the pill!
Dude: Awwww ish baby daddy likes to hear you talk like that….
Kym: What you got for mama?
Dude: Imma put this glow in the dark condom on…
Kym: Awwwww yeah that’s what mama likes
Dude: Then Imma take this 16oz tube of spermicide and squirt…..
Kym: Awwwwwwwwww Yes, Yes, Yes talk dirty to me
Dude: Then Imma take this IUD and shove….
Kym: Whooo Hooooo!!!!!
By Tazzee
October 20, 2008 3:48 PM | Link to this
Dan *@Tazz and Blow
Be careful how you generalize “all men”.*
I didn’t say “all men” - please re-read my post, I say “you men” in response to Truth’s “you ladies”…
so while mis-reading a post may be popular, you might want to read mine more carefully before you address me directly.
Furthermore - as Foots and the others have stated, no one is trying to take away your choice. But saying your choice is at the front end.
By MELO
October 20, 2008 3:50 PM | Link to this
on a man until after we have stopped seeing other people and to show up in nothing but a trenchcoat and pretend to be a naughty policewoman, cuffs optional. LOL, maaan, now that was real adult woman talk and i applaud u for it.Coz ur earlier discussion about helping with equipment and dog did not sound plausible.Its as if u were waiting for the kids to go in the play room. But i like that.Dang u killed me with that trenchcoat imagery I miss having a boyfriend ..whats ur email add?? u knw mine right???? I see ur ripe and glowing assets need good back and forth rub.
By MELO
October 20, 2008 3:53 PM | Link to this
I assure you my rationale for having relations was not to make a baby good altho u may want to concede, some females always have hidden ulterior motives.
By Tazzee
October 20, 2008 3:56 PM | Link to this
For Real No, I ultimately believe it’s the woman’s responsibility because when it’s all said and done she (and she alone) is the only one guaranteed to deal with the consequences - whether the baby is carried to term or not.
I’m pro-choice, but for me that choice is at the beginning when the decision is made to have sex. So it goes both ways for me.
But I just find it funny that guys are crying about their choice being taken away but they aren’t worried about that choice when making the decision to go up in a woman. Folks need to be more careful about who they lay up with. I’m of the opinion that you should go up in a woman you wouldn’t have a problem raising a child with. A man’s seed is very important and I feel that he should be more careful as to where he plants it.
Similarly, I don’t think a woman should have sex with a man that she would have a problem raising a child with.
But we all have choices and when you make a bad one, deal with it.
By Leggs
October 20, 2008 3:57 PM | Link to this
Melo, and that is your mistake by believing her. YOUR relationship is based on truth. HERS may be based on getting dyck skin w/o the protection. As you can see, a lot of men fell victims to that foolishness of believing someone they don’t really know or even their scheming mate for that matter. Nothing wrong w/checks and balances when making sure you DO NOT have an unwanted child.
By Kym
October 20, 2008 3:59 PM | Link to this
Melo I am not saying anyone has a right to lie. But from the examples given here we are not talking about dudes who are going out establishing meaning relationships with women. We are talking dudes going out and following a big butt home smack it up flip it rub it down..OH No!! 9 months later there is baby Jo-Jo looking at Momma thinking where my daddy? While dude is going that trick got me! I’m going underground throwing the peace sign with his index finger down.
NOW if you are in a deep relationship with a woman and she says she is on the pill. Fine trust her and still do what you need to do to protect your little swimmers.
By Leggs
October 20, 2008 4:00 PM | Link to this
**…some females always have hidden ulterior motives.——->even more proof to my argument that you should have checks and balance system going for you!
By Kym
October 20, 2008 4:03 PM | Link to this
For Real You are crazy!!
By MELO
October 20, 2008 4:03 PM | Link to this
Leggs I hear what u saying.All im saying is the law is giving fcked up lying horres too much protection and dollars.There is need to re-vist the chld support laws to ensure the daddies pay their fair share but at least the female leeches dnt profit off it but go to wrk to support the kids as well.
By Mo (aka Moeisha)
October 20, 2008 4:03 PM | Link to this
Wow its heated up in Blogsville today!! Lemme get my kettle corn & a pepsi cause this is something May chime in later
By Dan
October 20, 2008 4:04 PM | Link to this
@Tazz
Then my choice was to have sex or not?
My choice was to have protected sex?
Her choice was whether or not to have sex?
Her choice was whether or not to have a child?
And my choice only ended at penetration?
Give me a freaking break.
All day I’ve been asking the same question, and from you, Blow, Foots and Kym…it comes back to what the man is doing. How we’re not “accepting responsibility” or “passing the buck”.
Both completely spurrious and vacuous arguments that do not address the question at hand.
In not one of my posts have I accepted less than my culpability in a given situation, this or any other. But it is quite telling, indeed, that rather than answer the question at had with a personal accounting of what anyone of you ladies would or have done in the situation, you start by accusing men of something that wasn’t part of the debate to begin with.
Total Bullshyt!
And I ain’t directing it at you per se Taz, but the entire mentality that says “it’s his fault too”
There are so few women in this world regardless of age, culture, or education that can honesly just say: “my fault”, and be done with it.
The owness is always on someone else, before, after, and during the conversation even when stated that what you say is true.
I quit.
The new definition of insanity: trying to get an adult woman to admit even 50% culpability to anything.
By lurker
October 20, 2008 4:06 PM | Link to this
Truth and you men are fighting for your right to have unprotected sex without facing the consequences. I’ve never had an abortion, but I can’t imagine the decision to do so is as easy as you men think. Not only that, I don’t know one woman that’s had one and was able to act like it never happened. They all had that aborted child on their mind when they got older and were ready to start a family the right way. Not to mention thou shalt not kill
By Leggs
October 20, 2008 4:10 PM | Link to this
But didn’t you feel she was a fyked up lying w******* before you laid down w/her. You should sense this from a person from jump street. There should have been some flags (LOL). I gotcha Melo!
By MELO
October 20, 2008 4:11 PM | Link to this
Kym, Leggs i hear u both.DANG i had a confession to make on this coz it felt closer to home but i aint mentally ready 4 u guys.Suffice to say so far, ive punished..ok,i let go…
By Blue_Kolla
October 20, 2008 4:11 PM | Link to this
For Real YO DADDY AIN’T YOUR MAN AND I AIN’T YO DADDY! ONE TAKES CARE OF CHILD AND THE OTHER TAKES CARE OF HIS WOMAN! IF YOU WANT TO KNOW WHAT KIND OF MAN YO DADDY IS ASK YO MAMA OR HIS GIRLFRIEND!*
Now that’s for real for real.
Foots But I find it fascinating that men who don’t have children are so well-versed in the ins and outs of abortion rights, child support and custody laws.
That’s because knowing is half the battle. And once you know, you know how to avoid a problem or combat it.
But if you are with a woman who wants a child and YOU DON’T, it falls on you to make sure that the child never happens. It becomes your responsibility to protect your seed and your livelihood. Don’t just have unprotected sex…
Can’t do nothin’ but concur with that. ^^^ I always say, it’s your life, and your responsibility to protect it.
By MELO
October 20, 2008 4:13 PM | Link to this
thou shalt not kill and thou shalt not do intercourse b4 marriage either 4 sport.Its not a lesser sin. U virgin lurker????
By Tazzee
October 20, 2008 4:17 PM | Link to this
Dan read my 3:56 to For Real. Both parties have responsibility - I just don’t agree with the ‘it’s all on her if a child is conceived’ argument.
If it’s such BS, then make sure you make better decisions as to where you plant your seed…
By Wise Diva
October 20, 2008 4:20 PM | Link to this
LOL @ Mo, pass the kettle corn, honey!
By The Truth
October 20, 2008 4:21 PM | Link to this
Wise that wasn’t directed at you. Hell I don’t even know you.
Listen, all that “good man” mess is for a cat thats trapped and lays in the trap. We never made plans to have kids and it’s not something I signed up for. If the kid is sick take care of him. You wanted him. Don’t call me for jack. I don’t want kids and I’m not after you bring me that good news. What you have created is a mf’er that is now your enemy.
Kym if I could get pregnant I wouldn’t rely on anyone to do my job of protecting myself. It’s my body. More importantly the government has created a cottage industry out of chicks that have accidently fallen on some dudes dyck and got pregnant. If laws were in place women would simply not have sex or protect themselves accordingly.
Really its no problem though. We’ll just continue to produce your little boyfriends until they get locked up and then we’ll do this all over. It’s an endless cycle.
Dan you’re argument is valid. If I decide not to have the rugrat and she does it should be on her. This is just another way to keep the AA family weak, and run by the weakest part.
Remember when talking with these chicks they’re validated by getting pregnant while you’ll be simply violated. LOL
By MELO
October 20, 2008 4:22 PM | Link to this
You should sense this from a person from jump street that rump steak she carrying on her behind plus that rack on her chest can confuse a brother’s mind Leggs U knw that.
By Leggs
October 20, 2008 4:28 PM | Link to this
And that’s why I said a lot of you guys problems is going after the puddy, w/o inquiring about the whole of the person!
By mytwocents
October 20, 2008 4:28 PM | Link to this
I took it there, Melo cuz that’s an area where in most of my case studies I don’t have to request or plead for effort to be exerted. Maybe it’s b/c they’re more certain of the payoff. Hmm I shall ponder.
And I know ur not up in here tryna mandate laws that’ll have ya own self convicted. I wasn’t gonna revisit your foolhardy story bout the lady whose child you tutor, but while you’re somewhere tryna save souls, start with your own! For all your flashes of inherent decency and common sense, you attempt to make yourself go against the grain of what appears to be a strong marriage with someone you love… just to prove your animal magnetism is still potent, I guess. Please stop. You already know you could go outside if you really wanted to do so. We know it too. Woo hoo. If you haven’t been able to force yourself to do it by now then uhm it’s probably something that needs not be done cuz ya don’t really wanna.
Breezy where ya at. Or even better, Deacon Demi can - get a goblet full of the blood of G-sus? Make it a double.
By Blue_Kolla
October 20, 2008 4:29 PM | Link to this
By the way I can count numerous times the amount of dudes who have wanted me to have their baby and it was not pillow talk!
Be careful there Chink, you’re getting mud on your own shirt.
Come on fellas, these chicks wouldn’t take yoll’s side if Jesus Himself flew in on a cloud from the east. They’d swear it was David Copperfield doing tricks.
By Poppa Grande
October 20, 2008 4:30 PM | Link to this
I guess that law school has already brainwashed me. I look at everything more on a legal level more than a moral one.
I see the system as allowing this foolishness to go on.
I’ve read case after in Georgia where the facts weren’t truly taken into account. Males in Georgia really face an uphill battle.
There have been some cases where the two admitted that condoms were used but she admitted to the Court that she lied about being on the pill and the Court still ordered the dude to pay child support.
There was even one case where the paternity test (like Maury) proved that dude was NOT the father, and the Court ordered him to pay child support because “it was in the best interest of the child”.
So, I see the woman argument of having the decision before hand. But, knowing how the State of Georgia has ruled even in spite of its laws, I just think that it is just one more way the Georgia has an antiquated legal mindset.
So, ultimately, dudes to totally protect themselves must abstain from sex. It is one of the reasons that, I have really started considering Family Law - Men’s rights as a practice area. Firms like Cordell and Cordell only represent men in domestic cases such as divorce, child visitation, child support, and spousal suppport. They take no female clients. They have female attorneys, though
Unfortunately, as with all groups of society, the bad ones make it rough for everyone else.
By The Truth
October 20, 2008 4:32 PM | Link to this
Lurker killing the little accident is the best thing for all parties.
Tazz what i’m saying is if you’re out sport fugging and you get pregnant make whatever decision you like, because nobody else should be accountable. It’s one thing for a chick to make a stupid decision to have the child but that one decision has now ruined 3 lives. I say if anything lets get that back to 2, her and the child that has to live with her. I’m going back to life as usual as soon as I can find a loophole to bail. LOL
BTw, if you needs laws to make a man stay and perform you don’t really have a good man anyway. You just have a trapped man.
Please, lets try to not bring the bible in this. We’ve been honest to this part, no need to insert a bunch of lies. LOL
By Kym
October 20, 2008 4:32 PM | Link to this
Dan Not once did I say the woman was not at fault. One Cooch-One Penis-Makes One Baby(in some cases multiple babies) Both parties are at fault…but dude is not going to get a pass on his fault because he felt he was tricked or his choice was taken away. Now I have read back cause maybe I missed your situation… please direct me to it and I will gladly answer your question. Now I did read something about duress and skipped over it. Because what you were saying was duress was not duress.
By Dan
October 20, 2008 4:32 PM | Link to this
@Taz
When did I say that?
By Mo (aka Moeisha)
October 20, 2008 4:33 PM | Link to this
Wise Diva here ya go chica! Mo passes some kettle corn…we may need more the way this is going.
By Dan
October 20, 2008 4:34 PM | Link to this
@Leggs
Like everyone else, I thought I knew her…that is until the incident when she revealed a whole new side.
By MELO
October 20, 2008 4:35 PM | Link to this
bout the lady whose child you tutor, but while you’re somewhere tryna save souls, start with your own u knw im saved,but can stray from time to time.Even bible thumpers acknwledge that.Im proud im doing good in the community even tho my orgnal intentions were evil(smirk). magnetism is still potent every man desire that and no better way than to see females licking their lips when u do idle chatter… Hws ur phine self doing????
By chink
October 20, 2008 4:37 PM | Link to this
I cannot believe this is actually a debate about who takes care of a human life!
Ya’ll have a good evening I will not be raising my blood pressure over this
By Foots
October 20, 2008 4:38 PM | Link to this
For Real Do you argue this well when you drunk?
Even better. But then it’s much more funny, because I’ll keep asking you if I’m talking loud, and I mean every 30 seconds.
Dan You’re argument is valid. If I decide not to have the rugrat and she does it should be on her.
Is this, in fact, your argument?
By Leggs
October 20, 2008 4:39 PM | Link to this
Everything happens for a “purpose” not a “reason”. Truth, good thing you were never burdened with a woman coming to you saying she was pregnant and keeping the child.
By Dan
October 20, 2008 4:41 PM | Link to this
@PG
One of the main reasons that I wanted to study law was my situation.
The court would’ve jailed me if I’d forced/coerced or in any way cajoled her decision.
As it stood, I had no legal right to the process even. Got me to thinking too, that if I can’t say “yea or nay” then, what right does she have for monetary support when my approval is not even necessary?
@Truth
The dollar donor…in sooooo many cases that’s the God’s truth.
Her fault? Not entirely, I laid there too, but in the end there are really two ways to deal with it.
I really can take away all choice if it come to it.
By Leggs
October 20, 2008 4:42 PM | Link to this
And Dan, again, you didn’t have your own checks/balance system going on. Sorry, I don’t believe everything a person tells me even if I feel I know them….that’s just how we’re wired! Best believe it!
By Foots
October 20, 2008 4:44 PM | Link to this
Dan What do you feel IS your responsibility in making sure that you don’t have children before you are ready? And why?
By Kym
October 20, 2008 4:44 PM | Link to this
Kym if I could get pregnant I wouldn’t rely on anyone to do my job of protecting myself. It’s my body. More importantly the government has created a cottage industry out of chicks that have accidently fallen on some dudes dyck and got pregnant. If laws were in place women would simply not have sex or protect themselves accordingly.
Truth And if I could get someone preggie then I would not risk my wallet(since you fellows hold that most dear) by running up in some chick without first wrapping up and checking her pill count.
By Tazzee
October 20, 2008 4:47 PM | Link to this
Dan when did you say what? If you will recall, my initial post was in response to Truth’s post. Everything subsequent to that, I’ve responded to what you said.
Are you referring to my ‘it’s all on her’ comment? Well you said “but the entire mentality that says “it’s his fault too” - if it’s not his fault too, then you’re saying it’s all on her…
Are you referring to my statement about it not being BS? Well you said that in the same post. If you’ll read your 4:04. Oh and I never mentioned ‘what the man is doing’ I just stated that the decision NOT to have the child after the child is conceived is much easier for the woman than the man.
So if you’re not in that argument, then you shouldn’t have commented to me directly in the first place…
By Dan
October 20, 2008 4:48 PM | Link to this
@Foots
My responsibility is the same as hers: to protect my interests.
Don’t want an STD, so if it smell funny - I’m out.
Don’t wanna have kids willy-nilly, so to prevent it condoms w/ spermicide.
Don’t want crazy baby mama drama….
can’t give you that one, it’d make you an accessory after the fact, and make it premeditated…
By Wise Diva
October 20, 2008 4:51 PM | Link to this
goodness, I almost want to keep this debate going for tomorrow! It is so Interesting to me, seeing the different perspectives, something to think about
By The Truth
October 20, 2008 4:52 PM | Link to this
Chink human life isn’t that precious. The christians made sure of that when they murdered everyone that wouldn’t convert. LOL But what if a dude had aids? You’ve put you’re precious life on the line anyway.
Leggs a chick coming to me with that mess would really find out what being alone was all about. We would never talk again. Y’all cry alot about folks cheating on you but this is the ultimate betrayal. I can get screwed over by anyone.
Kym stalemate. Lets just keep creating the next illegitimate kid and do what we’ve been doing. If there’s a conspiracy by others to keep us down they can stop working now. We’ll do that ourselves. We’re on auto pilot. But that doesn’t matter because that chick can make decisions for herself. SMH
By Foots
October 20, 2008 4:55 PM | Link to this
Dan Good!! At least you understand that you are just as responsible for the outcome of your random sex act and that you make decisions before the act to protect yourself, even if she doesn’t.
So what ended up happening in your case? You used condoms plus spermicide and your swimmers STILL made it through?
By MELO
October 20, 2008 4:56 PM | Link to this
Don’t want an STD, so if it smell funny - I’m outLMAO
Dan,u give pudsy a sniff test b4 u get in??? Now thats due diligence for sho!!
good nite folks.
By KP (http://chatkafe.blogspot.com)
October 20, 2008 4:57 PM | Link to this
Today’s exchange of comments should validate why folks need to be careful who they let into their personal space for casual purposes. What starts as attraction, lust and fun can turn into who gets stuck with the long-term pain and responsibility. Not good for only a short period of pleasure!
By Poppa Grande
October 20, 2008 4:57 PM | Link to this
Dan
Unfortunately for some men, that is how the system treats them.
As stated before, law school has taught me that there aren’t black and white issue, but many shades of gray.
The court really wants someone to support the child, and for the child to not be a “burden” on the state. Which is a sad commentary in itself
They are just willing to sacrifice one dude for the sake of many. Or at least that is their perceptiion
As a whole there are plenty of men that do their job as a parent and women that do their job as a parent. Each to raise a child whether it be separately or jointly. However, the system is geared toward those that do not do their jobs as parents. Their policy is to protect the child in those cases.
By Wise Diva
October 20, 2008 4:59 PM | Link to this
Thanks M for this topic idea, really interesting comments.
Have a great evening everyone
By Leggs
October 20, 2008 4:59 PM | Link to this
I know this is how you feel Truth!
Good night!
A baby is born with a need to be loved - and never outgrows it.
So, if you don’t want to love a child, don’t lie down with its potential mother UNPROTECTED.!
By Dan
October 20, 2008 5:03 PM | Link to this
@Melo
The smell test, the lights are on, I’m doing a prelim gyn exam, damn near.
@Foots
Of course I’m responsible. It takes two to make that baby, right? Never said anything different.
My case: the condom broke.
@Tazz
You said “guys”, an innocous all encompassing phrase, so of course, as a guy, I took offense.
As for the conclusion that it’s only on mostly on the man, I still call it bull.
For it to be both his and her fault is entirely possible….shared
By Tazzee
October 20, 2008 5:11 PM | Link to this
Dan I see your sensitivity regarding this subject is clouding your vision. I never said it’s mostly on the man - but if you can point to where I said that I will concede.
By Foots
October 20, 2008 5:14 PM | Link to this
Dan As for the conclusion that it’s only on mostly on the man, I still call it bull. For it to be both his and her fault is entirely possible….shared
Every last person on here except for Truth already believes this and has stated this. Please read more closely. BUT if I’m getting my house painted and all my painter cares about is getting the job done period, but I want it neat and pretty, with no mess left behind, the onus is on me to make sure that happens. If I just left it up to him, he’d throw up some paint, get the money and run.
In the same vein, if it’s extremely important to you NOT to have children before your time, and the girl could care less, the onus is on you to make sure that doesn’t happen.
Everybody has a responsibility in both cases. But the one who has the most to lose and the least to gain should do whatever is in his/her power to protect themselves. I can’t see how you’d disagree with that.
And for your situation, I’m surprised that that spermicide you used didn’t work either. Stay out the dollar bin.
Gotta bold this:
Today’s exchange of comments should validate why folks need to be careful who they let into their personal space for casual purposes. What starts as attraction, lust and fun can turn into who gets stuck with the long-term pain and responsibility. Not good for only a short period of pleasure!