Misadventures in Atlanta

By Kym aka Enchantress Divine

June 17, 2008 8:32 AM | Link to this

Good Morning All,

While I have opinions on this one I am going to lurk for awhile..not sure I am feeling chatty today.

By SlimOne

June 17, 2008 8:35 AM | Link to this

Wise D I hope you realize you’re asking for it again today…lol

Slim now building a cubicle fort out of copier paper, white out and paper clips…then says a prayer: Lord please don’t strike Truth down today.

By Dan

June 17, 2008 8:42 AM | Link to this

As far as the political arena goes, I heard sexist comments, but (depending on the channel) they were few and far between.

I heard comments that outright shocked me regarding Mrs. Clinton in some cases, but I think the hype about the media “being sexist and pushing her out of the race” is crap. Point blank: she lost after 11 straight, no coming back from that.

As far as sexism in the workplace or relationships, I might have a tin ear, but I don’t hear it. I know far too many capable women that perform their work (and after work) related responsibilities admirably.

So maybe I’m not aware of sexism, maybe I could use some sensitivity training. But, um, at least right now don’t see as a real big problem.

By Alvin

June 17, 2008 8:45 AM | Link to this

What were you taught as young boys about a woman’s role in relationships and/or marriage?

Not a Got Dayum Thing!!! I’ve learn most of what I know thru trial and error…And them dudes off the street corners, LOL

Dang, I miss those days, LOL.

And Foot since when has building relationship with other people gotten so serious…Some people are meant to enriches our lives and some are not. It is just that simple.

Y’all hearing folks kill me at time.

By mytwocents

June 17, 2008 8:49 AM | Link to this

tee hee hee

The quote masters probably know the right phrase. The one about how sometimes those unaware of an issue are at the root cause of it… This should be good listenin today. Have a great one, sexists!

By AmazonRed

June 17, 2008 8:55 AM | Link to this

Demi: And Foot since when has building relationship with other people gotten so serious…Some people are meant to enriches our lives and some are not. It is just that simple.

So what do you take seriously? These same people who enrich our lives (or not) also have feelings. No you will not make a connection with everyone, but relationships with other people whether permanent or temporary is one of the greatest things life has to offer. Why be callous on something like that?

Just thinking outloud…

By Raqi

June 17, 2008 8:55 AM | Link to this

A sexist attitude is an immature attitude. And yeah I can be immature at times. But all in all I am very much into the traditional relationship roles. I believe that there is a position that each individual takes in the relationship.

The problem with our society today, IMO, you can’t deball your man and then still expect him to come thru as the man (leader,provider,protector) in your relationship.

And men you can’t tell or force your woman to grow a pair and still grant you the place of being the man in her life.

We can’t have it both ways.

I caught part of the Baisden show on the way home yesterday. What I got a chance to hear was one of the better shows of his that I have heard. It was about the roles that men and women hold in a relationship. Can a woman be too strong and make the mistake binding the man’s hand in her relationship? Those are not the words he used but it’s how I took it.

By ATL Guy

June 17, 2008 8:56 AM | Link to this

So I took summer courses while interning in Atlanta and car-pooled with a girl in my class who by chance lived 2 mins away from me. We’re on I85 she tells me how she’s a feminist and came across as Sexist as I’m driving! We were friends at this point, not like I just met her. So I told her “ok, you’re going to have to get out of my car…” Haha! Of course just playing but her stiff feminist demeanor didn’t vibe with that comment. People, quit taking yourselves so serious, let the damn guard down…

By AmazonRed

June 17, 2008 9:00 AM | Link to this

By the way good morning everyone.

Ladies, how do you handle sexists in the city?

While I don’t mind a little caveman in a guy, a pure sexist does not get handled, he gets ignored. I don’t have time for all that!

Do you tone down your outspokenness to keep from sending the wrong message?

With people I like and respect, yes. But those type of people tend to have similar views to mine and also don’t come at me with crazy talk!

Do you think you have sexist views about men that you should correct?

I’m still a traditionalist so I do have certain views on “roles” that men and women carry.

What were you taught as young girls about a man’s role in relationships and/or marriage?

Grew up in the old school tradional model. Dad worked, Mom stayed home. Dad is definitely the head and gets the big piece of chicken. But my Mom was definitely no shrinking violet and had her say.

By brian

June 17, 2008 9:04 AM | Link to this

What were you taught as young boys about a woman’s role in relationships and/or marriage?

Ummm, wow.. Thats not a good question this earliy in the morning… but uhh I was taught to respect women, to a certain degree… a womans role in a relationship no longer applies to what I was taught as a young man.. Today’s Woman is alot different from yester woman… (the diva effect, im a princess, I want to be just like one of the sex in the city girls, ect..)

By AmazonRed

June 17, 2008 9:11 AM | Link to this

The problem with our society today, IMO, you can’t deball your man and then still expect him to come thru as the man (leader,provider,protector) in your relationship.

Raqi - Amen!

By abc

June 17, 2008 9:12 AM | Link to this

Sexist views (and racist views, for that matter) have to do with embracing stereotypes, applying them to those who can be so labeled.

When males on the blog wax crudely about having sex if in any way available, feeling no responsibility for the messes they leave behind as she should have had more sense anyway, and pretty much “shut up while the game is on, make me a sandwich and get me a beer”, it’s tough to not get at least a hint of what some of the stereotypes are.

Females that imply that they need an optimally upwardly mobile candidate with more than a couple bucks laying around similarly portray the stereotype of women who are attracted mostly to position or money. What kind of car does he drive, ladies?

White people aren’t athletic and have no street sense; African Americans can’t swim and are somehow genetically predisposed to be afraid of dogs.

So, men can’t be trusted, women are after money. Women want that perfect man… for them to change. Men want that really special someone… who will leave them alone.

By ATL Guy

June 17, 2008 9:14 AM | Link to this

Brian I’m with you. I totally respect the females as well. Thing is…you must give respect to receive respect. These girls that have this sense of entitlement like the world owes them something is unreal. Then dress a certain way and wonder why they only attract specific guys or get negative attention.

Stay Classy Ladies…hearing that from a 25 year old

By Dan

June 17, 2008 9:15 AM | Link to this

Ok, I’ll throw the grenade…

Here’s your chance ladies to educate us neanderthals about what sexism is, how to spot it, even examples of some sexist behaviour, language, etc. that we should watch out for.

So have at it…give us the lists!

How are we to learn and improve if you don’t tell us?

By QC

June 17, 2008 9:17 AM | Link to this

Morning all…i hope everyone has a fantastic day Hello Alvin/Demi you should try to fly through here today.. i’ll be in Lurkesville, Ga

BK ;)

Good commente Brian

By Foots

June 17, 2008 9:18 AM | Link to this

Demi And Foot since when has building relationship with other people gotten so serious…Some people are meant to enriches our lives and some are not.

Do you believe that building a relationship with the child you are raising is serious? What about your family? Do you have friends? What about the people who you network with in order to build your reputation and business? The dude who cuts your hair? You don’t want to get jacked up in the chair do you?

Let me ask you: Do you think that the word “relationship” only applies to male-female romantic interactions?

By Dan

June 17, 2008 9:19 AM | Link to this

^5 abc!!! Right on!!

By ATL Guy

June 17, 2008 9:21 AM | Link to this

Dan how whipped are you!? Use some common judgement

Guys are sexist when they degrade women either physically or emotionally. Sad thing is, too many women tend to put up with this & Accept.

Women can be just as bad with the Control Thing…know its true!

By The Melo

June 17, 2008 9:26 AM | Link to this

Guys, do you think that your sexist views interfere with your dating success? Do find it hard to meet women who uphold traditional values? Traditional values as we know them are in themselves sexist.But I belive they were put in place in order to maintain order.In the 21st century, some of those traditional values may need to be adjusted and tweeked to make sense, but those values still have a place.God created man and women differently and He endowed us with unique but different talents.Women are good at nurturing and men at fighting and hunting.The nurturing,fighting and hunting in the modern day is a bit different but it still applies to our setting. The problems we have nowadays are the lack of families especially among African americans.Whites do not face as many problems as blacks do,in my opinion because the family is not as messed up as ours. In families where the wife is a stay at home and the man works to feed the family, for example, it seems the families are more grounded.They may be poorer compared to 2 working parents but not necessarily poor and struggling. My point is that when we choose dating partners, the focus shld not be on high profile careers, money etc but on on how we view each other’s role and if we are to raise a family, what roles each one of us will play. My wife and I established traditional roles, even as we were dating.It worked.We transitioned that into marriage and it is still working.Ofcourse we tweeked it when we entered marriage.It may not be equal,fair etc, but it works as far as raising kids etc is concerned. Nothing in this life is 50/50 and i think that is where most miss the point.

By AmazonRed

June 17, 2008 9:27 AM | Link to this

When males on the blog wax crudely about having sex if in any way available, feeling no responsibility for the messes they leave behind as she should have had more sense anyway

Dan - You do know that you are one of the guys this applies too…right? LOL

By Foots

June 17, 2008 9:28 AM | Link to this

Raqi I heard a bit of that show as well. I don’t usually agree with everything that he says, but when George was saying “What about the woman who gives up control to the man, only to have him disappoint her time and time again?”, Michael responded with something like “She needs for a man to demonstrate that he can handle his own business first to know if he can handle both of theirs.” That man has to demonstrate that he is capable of taking care of himself before he can take care of a family.

I can remember telling one of my friends that same thing when she was considering getting back with her ex-husband. Dude had never lived on his own, never took care of his own bills, couldn’t keep a job, but yet and still, she expected him to know how to be head of a household. I told her to at least let him get on his feet and show her that he can be responsible before she let him move back in. But love got the better of her. They are still going through the same issues years later.

Mike had it right on that one.

By Biff

June 17, 2008 9:28 AM | Link to this

There are a lot of confused chicks out there. Many lesbians and feminist man haters do not realize that men and women are different. It is genetically programmed for chicks to have qualities for breeding and raising children. When they don’t have those they naturally can be bitter and turn their anger towards men.

Men should treat women as gentlemen until you find out they are man haters due to their inadequacies.

By Dan

June 17, 2008 9:32 AM | Link to this

@abc

I agree with the theory of the stereotype and how they apply to certain biases, but to me the stereotype only applies to me…if I let it.

Sure I like chicken, I won’t be swimming the English Channel but I can swim well enough to save my own life.

But as with most stereotypes they are generalizations that have a basis in someone else perception of cultural or gender specific activities (i.e. “all men are dogs”, no just the one you’ve dealt with are).

But for a stereotype, or for that matter, the association of a particular trait to be tied to you, one must exhibit those tendencies. Just because I like chicken, can shoot a basketball, doesn’t mean that I’m no conversant in the finer arts. But I don’t necessarily need to wear that badge of distinction, because I don’t feel I have to prove anything to anybody.

@ATL Guy

Sarcasm, Sardonic…dictionary.com

By Lurker

June 17, 2008 9:33 AM | Link to this

ABC’s comments (all of them) are dead on. I hope though, while some are high fiving it’s not selectively.

By SexyLeggs

June 17, 2008 9:34 AM | Link to this

SlimOne, just read the first 2 posts and you are in my head in terms of Truth. Now, going back to read the rest.

By Foots

June 17, 2008 9:39 AM | Link to this

What were you taught as young girls about a man’s role in relationships and/or marriage?

From the examples in my family, I know that male-female love relationships don’t all look the same. As for roles, our family operated on the basis of “whoever does what best”. My aunt and uncle, who were married until death parted them, had non-traditional roles. He loved to cook, so that’s what he did. My aunt didn’t drive (once she got married) so he drove her everywhere she needed to be. But she could clean the hellz out of a house and run an organization better than a CEO. They both were good, involved parents and they both worked.

My cousin and her husband both work and raise their children. He does most of the cooking, she does most of the cleaning. They find the situation that works best for them.

My own daddy was a hard-working man who did a bunch of work outside of the house. My mom basically cleaned, or made us do it, but they both cooked (70% Mom, 30% Dad). They both had careers.

I’ve grown up surrounded by examples of two-worker households who were able to find how who did what best and what worked best for them as a couple. There are no concrete lines drawn for me as to who SHOULD do what based on your chromosomal makeup.

By Dan

June 17, 2008 9:39 AM | Link to this

@ARed

No. No that statement doesn’t apply to me.

I believe in personal responsibility mine and anybody that I interact with. Naive as it may be, I hold people responsible for their actions and inactions and expect them to hold me accountable as well.

As far as sexual relations go, I’ve never taken anything from a woman that was not offered so at some point, on some level, she made a conscious decision. That said, she is accountable for her decision as I am for mine.

The outcome in this equation is negligible, its the inherent responsiblities of both parties to make decisions and live with them.

So no, if she (nebulously) made an informed decision as an adult I have no responisibility what…so…ever.

By Blow Me a.k.a Rookie Cookie

June 17, 2008 9:48 AM | Link to this

Ared I agree…completely…My daddy got the big pieces too!! @ With people I like and respect, yes. But those type of people tend to have similar views to mine and also don’t come at me with crazy talk!

Melo Right on point with your post!! I agree %100….Now on the black and white thing….I somewhat agree…I think the white family you think of have been perputated in the media. They have some screwed up families as well. But I must say there are more single family black homes then whites. That has alot to do with BLACK MEN abandoining the traditional roles. Yea, let’s talk about it! Traditional values as we know them are in themselves sexist.But I belive they were put in place in order to maintain order.In the 21st century, some of those traditional values may need to be adjusted and tweeked to make sense, but those values still have a place.God created man and women differently and He endowed us with unique but different talents

By AmazonRed

June 17, 2008 9:48 AM | Link to this

So no, if she (nebulously) made an informed decision as an adult I have no responisibility what…so…ever.

Dan - this statement alone is exactly what abc’s post applied to you.

But whatever.

By Foots

June 17, 2008 9:49 AM | Link to this

abc Need your opinion…

Does “feeling no responsibility for the messes they leave behind as she should have had more sense anyway” effectively equal “she (nebulously) made an informed decision as an adult I have no responsibility what…so…ever”? LOL

Hey Dan, I agree with you on The outcome in this equation is negligible, its the inherent responsiblities of both parties to make decisions and live with them, as this not only applies to sex. The same can be said about dudes who spend their money on a woman without getting a “return on their investment”. You should school them about owning their decision to spend their $ and that the responsibility of their choice falls on them, not the woman. I think you understand this well, hence your cheapness.

By ATL Guy

June 17, 2008 9:52 AM | Link to this

Of course this topic leans on Chilvary. Women love the Chilvary from guys, but being so sexist or feminst will squash the idea of Chilvary. Instead of being considerate of guy-girl or girl-guy … its a barrier established that divides the sexes

By Raqi

June 17, 2008 9:55 AM | Link to this

As for traditional roles when I was growing up, my dad made all of us (boys and girls) learn how to cook. But the unspoken separation came when house cleaning and yard work had to be done. The views were formed based on what we were given to do. My mom nor dad never stated this or that is a man/woman job, but my sister and I cleaned along with my mother, while my brothers did the yard work and washed the cars. It was only after the two oldest began working and went off to college that us youngsters shared more of the same chores. The fact is we sort of grew into certain roles from there. And then seeing how my mom and dad interacted with each other impressed a lot onto us.

By SexyLeggs

June 17, 2008 9:56 AM | Link to this

Good morning everyone.

Can a woman be too strong and make the mistake binding the man’s hand in her relationship? Most definitely! When a man realizes that he can continuously make mistakes and his woman will ALWAYS be there to fix matters, will only weaken and destroy his role as man of the house because in due time she will start to berate him on any given level.

We will Atl Guy!

When Melo posts like an open-minded individual, he makes sense (and no typos).

I don’t care how independent I am, I believe in the traditional roles of man and woman. I don’t consider myself a sexist, yet I want a manly man that can handle himself and take care of me when I can’t take care of myself.

By Dan

June 17, 2008 9:57 AM | Link to this

@ARed

In what context?

Sexism, as a construct says that women and men have certain “roles”, i.e. women and men cannot perform the same tasks or rather should not at least that’s what I take it to mean.

How does a mutual choice to engage in sexual congress somehow put more responsibility in the hands of one party over another (in that I have more responsibility to her than she has to herself)?

I’m not understanding what you’re saying, speak it plainly, are you accusing me of something specific?

And the subtler argument that abc is making, simply becuase I don’t marry the women that I sleep with, does not make me a bad person. She’s an adult and the same basis of logic for being independent, being strong willed, and having her own now negates her other responsibilities?

So a woman can work, manage her household, have children, but has noooooo responsibility in the outcome of her chosen sexual interactions? Is that the gist of what you’re saying (either of you)?

By brian

June 17, 2008 9:58 AM | Link to this

Question? How do single mothers of young boys, teach a boy about a mans role.. If she is on, a all men are evil kick”, ur daddy is a dead beat, im in and out of relationships all the time. And there are alot of single mothers out there, ALOT. It just seems like we are going back wards, to many proud people(women), no ones to take the back seat anymore… I think could swallow my pride to deal with a hardheaded woman to be there for my boy… Thats not the case with everyone…

By Kym aka Enchantress Divine

June 17, 2008 10:01 AM | Link to this

I pretty much agree with abc’s comments regarding race and sex..but I will add that both require a internal shift in attitude..not external.

In a leadership seminar a few years ago we did a experiment where we had several sheets of poster paper taped to the wall under on each sheet were the name of a different race of people (Asian, Black, Hispanic, White) along with a sheet for man and woman.(specfic to each race)

Each table as a group took turns and went to the sheets and wrote down ever truth(suspected truth) or sterotype we could think of about each race and both sexes. All the negatives we could think of in 2mins.

From Hispanics are all illegal, Blacks are lazy, Asians can’t drive, Whites are racist, White men are sexist pigs, Black men are thieves, White Women are witches(with a b) and Black Women are on welfare.

It was shocking and revealing because in that 2mins most of the posters were filled with negatives.

Our next task was to go back to those same sheets and in the same 2 mins write all the positive things we could think of about each race.

While it took us no time to come up with negatives we were stuck on positives.

Mind you these are people I worked with, ate with,and laughed with.

And here we sat in this one room confronting the attitudes…we all share about our own race and the race of others. Not to mention how we felt about women and men.

The air in that room was thick because we were surrounded on all sides by the attitudes we had about each other. The instructor didnt ask us to say what we wrote or added to each poster but to simple think about our attitudes.

So Dan making a list and saying here read this is not going to change anything. There has to be a internal change or shift to cause people to change.

Back to lurking

By SlimOne

June 17, 2008 10:03 AM | Link to this

Foots I am with you on your 9:39…maybe when we get into expecting the other person to uphold a steadline list of things according to our own way, you bring on unnecessary issues. I totally agree with setup your household to what works best for you. If the man is a great cook, enjoys doing it, then why not have it where he does majority of the cooking. Or is she can wash the hell out of a car and detail it to a tee, why not let her do the car washing….I myself have no problem with cooking, cleaning etc but when i feel the other person is EXPECTING me to do something, or making me feel I HAVE to do it, then it takes away the joy of doing it because I WANT to. No one wants to feel taken for granted. When i was shaking up, it was a pleasure for me to have the food timed just right to be hot when Mister came home. In the same token, if i got home after he did, it was just as nice to see he had picked up or cooked something for dinner and not chose to wait for me to get there to figure it out. Shaking up was definitely a learning experience for me. One of the things i learned is that some things that i may find ‘common sense’ or a big deal, aren’t necessarily a big deal for the other person. For instance, he didn’t think anything of opening a cabinet or a drawer in kitchen and leaving it open. I myself can’t stand it….However, when he turned around one day and bumped the hell outta his eye on the corner of the cabinet door, he got a great example of why i don’t like it….all-in-all communication is key. We live in a “I want it now Fast-food world” and it seems the art of getting to know one another a few and far between.

By Foots

June 17, 2008 10:05 AM | Link to this

Raqi Another question he asked is “Why do women find it hard to admit that they would like to be taken care of by a man?” I took that to not just mean financially, but emotionally, spiritually, mentally as well.

I wanted to call in and tell him to read this blog occasionally to find out why. Men constantly talk about getting azz, getting more azz, and getting rid of the woman who is giving old azz to replace her with new azz. They talk about wanting a woman to leave them the f/k alone, to accept that he will cheat, that it’s okay to chase dollars instead of meaningful relationships, to shut her mouth unless she has it open to receive his private parts.

Are these men actually prepared to take care of a woman’s heart, body, and soul, if she were to offer them to him?

With examples of such on a daily basis, would Michael Baisden still wonder why it’s hard for some women not to take these attitudes to heart and not build walls around themselves for self-preservation? For them, to admit that they need a man is like admitting that they like mistreatment and disrespect, especially if they don’t see examples of how wonderful men can really be.

I’m glad that I have good examples in my own family and friendship circles of men who were raised in good families and who honor and love women. At least I know that all men don’t think the same way and that I can feel free to admit that I want and need a man in my life, because there are some really good ones out there.

By AmazonRed

June 17, 2008 10:07 AM | Link to this

Dan

By Binford2K8

June 17, 2008 10:09 AM | Link to this

Is it sexist to say the WNBA sucks compared to the NBA?

By kimmie

June 17, 2008 10:10 AM | Link to this

Raqi - Your 8:55 is dead on. I also caught quite a bit of Michael Baisden and yes, I agree it was one of his better shows. I also really appreciated his stance on the R. Kelly thing-did you catch that? He basically said is was a non-story to him, it’s been drug out too long and was inappropriate to discuss on Friday, when he had the kids calling in praising their fathers for Father’s Day. But yes, it was a great show yesterday, I was going to bring it up on here if you hadn’t.

I’m also with you Foots, about the “whoever does what best approach”. That’s the approach I’ve seen work best in most relationships I admire. That’s what a real partnership is all about, 2 people working together for the common good of the family. I am somewhat old school too. My parents had very traditional roles, but like AmRed said, my mother definitely spoke her mind and my father respected her opinion. I think like my mother in that there are just certain things that require a “ladies touch”, though I realize there are men that can and do do those “things” just as well or even better, and vice-versa.

As for the political stuff, most of the news shows I watched during the primaries had the thinly-veiled racism that got my blood boiling, not so much the sexist stuff, though I read a few blogs that made sexist comments about Hillary, not surprising. America is not the most progressive country in the world, and a lot of people don’t realize this. That being said, before Barack came on the scene, I do believe the Dem nomination was Hillary’s to lose. Just like there are some people that will never vote for a black person, there are some that will never vote for a woman, period. There are other factors that cost Hillary more than sexism, in my opinion, and it was still very close.

By abc

June 17, 2008 10:11 AM | Link to this

Dan, I’d say that in most cases of irresponsible sex, supposedly without consequence, the female bears the majority of responsibility, if for no other reason than the man can feel free to skip out since he isn’t the one that becomes pregnant — at least, that would be an assumption based on stereotype.

In cases of sexually transmitted disease, I’d say the parties bear equal responsibility because the negative consequences are the same. Knowledge beforehand that one is contagious should constitute criminality should one engage in sex without informing the partner (and maybe even if they do inform them… maybe), but another stereotype could reflect that those so infected got that way by being so irresponsible, what’s to suddenly make them more responsible now?

By AmazonRed

June 17, 2008 10:12 AM | Link to this

Foots Are these men actually prepared to take care of a woman’s heart, body, and soul, if she were to offer them to him?

LOL. Not the men on this blog!

(for the most part, I fully understand that there are a few real men here. And I appreciate you!)

By SexyLeggs

June 17, 2008 10:12 AM | Link to this

Oh, and to answer this question What were you taught as young girls about a man’s role in relationships and/or marriage? I wasn’t taught with words. My mother schooled me with her actions. I watched and watched and watched all the wrong things going on around me. I knew what I wouldn’t and couldn’t tolerate. Yet, when I realized I was relinquishing myself as a vital and productive woman to someone who didn’t deserve me I “manned (sp?) up” so to speak and took back charge of my life. Reading you guys have me wondering if these “traditional” roles still exist!

By mytwocents

June 17, 2008 10:14 AM | Link to this

abc So, men can’t be trusted, women are after money. Women want that perfect man… for them to change. Men want that really special someone… who will leave them alone. Now don’t these generalizations look crazy… missin your favorite one, tho.

ATL Guy The hazards of pursuing Negative Attention are seen across all age groups and demographics - from the hood, to Hollywood. I attribute some of this to a defeatist attitude…ladies who hear enough negativity about “how women are” may accept it as fact and proceed in the same vein, like they’re afraid to disappoint or challenge it. Then others don’t conform to it at all but while you seem able to, many other men won’t mentally or physically embrace a non-stereotypical woman. I guess since they’re not as easy to pull out the manual and operate step by step. But then, you’re young yet, so they may say you’ll become jaded with time.

By anonymousella

June 17, 2008 10:14 AM | Link to this

Ladies, how do you handle sexists in the city?

i ignore him because we do not have compatible values. then i say a prayer to the goddess that he evolves (or has a daughter…i suspect a lot of your attitudes about gender roles change when you have a daughter).

Do you tone down your outspokenness to keep from sending the wrong message?

um. no. i just roll my eyes and keep it moving. no point wasting time trying to convince someone to change his/her worldview (cuz yes, women — my sistahs especially — like to uphold the patriarchy).

Do you think you have sexist views about men that you should correct?

my one even remotely sexist belief is that men — my brothas especially — prefer the gender role status quo. but then, i’d say that’s more fact than belief.

i think we’re more alike than different, though our militaristic culture likes to tell us otherwise.

What were you taught as young girls about a man’s role in relationships and/or marriage?

i wasn’t taught anything beyond stand on your own since prince charming ain’t out there.

my father was at least as emphatic about that as my mom. i’m not sure whether they were progressive, realistic, or just cynical about a black woman’s prospects for marriage. but the lesson stuck.

my parents split the housework and child care as needed. my dad did almost all of the cooking from the time i was seven. mom did the house cleaning. dad did the yardwork. we all shoveled snow. we did most of our own laundry and ironing.

in other words i grew up with an unusually balanced example of gender roles in a marriage. and trust me when i say that folks who also want an equal marriage are hard to find below the mason-dixon line.

By Dan

June 17, 2008 10:15 AM | Link to this

I want to be left alone when I get home becuase I don’t want to bring the problems of my job into my house, to my SO, and have her take on the responsibility of counseling me about the day I’ve had putting up with…whatever I have to put up with.

I don’t want to sleep with you, that’s not my motivation for speaking to you, it can better be described in getting to know you. Your dreams, your past, and who you are today.

I don’t want to take care of you, I want you to be an active participant in your life. Make decisions, live with them, and if at any point you feel like my opinions, my life history, my perspective can help, I will gladly give you all of that and any other information that you need to make your choices.

I don’t owe you anything. I’m not beholdent to you for anything that I choose to give you…or you choose to give me.

We are adults, capable and indeed responsible for making our own decisions in this life. Be they for this life or the next, the outcome of our collective and respective choice lie soley with each of us. Individually as adults.

It does take a man to raise a child, and any fool can make one. That is why I have no children, not fool enough to make one, and not in a position to be the man that I would want to be for my child.

By The Melo

June 17, 2008 10:18 AM | Link to this

Sexxy i have typos coz iam stealing time from work and rushing,if u get the context in my writing,good.Am an open minded person..u knw this..other times, im just having fun and messing.I aint as bad as sme wmen on the blog think iam.Just a lil dog in me from yrs gone by.Nostalgia…..

By Dan

June 17, 2008 10:24 AM | Link to this

@ARed

Nice dig, having sex with me is regretable? Riiiight, and sex with any female is the Holy Grail….

But to what extent does my responsibility lie? I stay checked out for all manner of ailment, I wear the condom, and in the end if there is no child…what do I owe her?

@abc

There you go. Fear is always a motivation to not do something. Of course statistically there are a million and one chance to catch something, but you know for yourself that your odds decrease as you decrease your risky behavior. To your line of thinking, why drive? Why let someone else prepare your food? All becuase of what might happen?

And where did the baby come from? Every woman that I sleep with at least has my phone number (and that hasn’t changed in 10 years) so prayerfully, if there was something that I needed to know, someone would’ve told me by now.

By Foots

June 17, 2008 10:24 AM | Link to this

Slim I myself have no problem with cooking, cleaning etc but when i feel the other person is EXPECTING me to do something, or making me feel I HAVE to do it, then it takes away the joy of doing it because I WANT to. No one wants to feel taken for granted.

This was exactly the issue I had with an ex. He had these rigid ideas about what each sex should do that it was stifling. I felt unappreciated and taken for granted and I didn’t want to do anything for his azz. In other situations, including this one, I love to have food ready when my man comes over, I fix plates, I get refills, I don’t even sit down to eat until he’s got everything he needs. But he does the exact same thing when I’m at his place. When I walk in, the food is just about ready, he serves me food, he offers me a drink. The reciprocation is great. To treat somebody well goes beyond traditional roles, it’s just plain caring about someone and wanting them to feel loved. With the right person, and a little discussion, things should fall into place.

For instance, he didn’t think anything of opening a cabinet or a drawer in kitchen and leaving it open. I myself can’t stand it…

OH..MY..GOD!! Do ALL men do this?? LOL!! I had an ex who did this, left open cabinets, microwaves, drawers, etc. I used to be fire hot mad about it. The new man does the same thing, if it can possibly be opened and closed, he leaves it open. I just laugh now and close them behind him. What a difference 5 years makes in my own attitude!! LOL!

By Kym aka Enchantress Divine

June 17, 2008 10:24 AM | Link to this

Foots surely you are not going to make a comparison to the 3 or so men on this blog to rest of men in Atlanta?

To answer your question.. Are these men actually prepared to take care of a woman’s heart, body, and soul, if she were to offer them to him?

I would ask the woman why would you give yourself to a man who does not even begin to express that which you desire? I mean lets cut to the chase..if a man says I am only out to get some booty from you and the woman goes in knowing he just likes her doggy style then why is it when the deal is sealed is that man a dog? If it walks and talks like Fido and barks at you and says “Hello my name is Fido” well then -I am pretty doggone sure its a Fido.

Yet, I am willing to bet that most of the men on this blog have been hit up by women…or if they have hit women up have gotten responses that don’t match any of the attitudes expressed here.

Disclaimer I dont know jack about any of you so your blog side lives are safe with me.

By kimmie

June 17, 2008 10:26 AM | Link to this

Kym - I went to a similiar seminar a few years back that did that same excercise! It was a trip - you could cut the tension with a knife! I almost got into a “heated” discussion with a white woman who pulled me aside and asked me why “a lot” of black people think they are entitled to things just because they are black and should not have to work for things! I told her I did not know what she was talking about because everybody I knew worked their a*******es off and did not expect a handout and after all, deadbeats exist in every race, every color! I looked evil as H at her and she got out of my way quick!

By AmazonRed

June 17, 2008 10:31 AM | Link to this

playing the tiniest violin in the world for Dan.

What you described in your 10:15 would be better served in search of a good roommate, than a wife, IMO

Sounds like selfish way to live, and to go thru life never making a real connection with anyone. Cuz you don’t owe her anything and neither does she…

But I’ma stop now, because if that is what works for you, so be it.

And PS, That wasn’t a dig and I never implied having sex with you was regrettable, I was speaking on regrettable decisions, such as doing something like having sex on the first night or something like that. Cuz we no you’ll have no remorse since she’s “grown”

By abc

June 17, 2008 10:34 AM | Link to this

Oh yeah, mytwocents, all women keep secrets and lie to maintain them, about everything under the sun. Yeah, I apply that stereotype to all women, I admit it.

Dan, just sayin… talking stereotypes.

By Kym aka Enchantress Divine

June 17, 2008 10:36 AM | Link to this

kimmie Then that was your angry black woman showing. (It was also a negative on our list) The point of my post and I think that exercise was that we all have these sterotypes and we proudly display them in some cases or hide them when necessary.

By Dan

June 17, 2008 10:38 AM | Link to this

@ARed

I don’t like the violin…how about a flute melody?

As far as my comment, I need to decompress when I walk through the door, esp. if I haven’t been to the gym before. Reason is the problems at my gig are mine to deal with, until I get ready to share that with her in rational and calm manner. Which from time to time, I’m not ready to do right when I walk into the door after work.

And you’re right, naan regret about anything I have done or chosen not to do…..

By Raqi

June 17, 2008 10:38 AM | Link to this

Foots I think most women find it hard to admit because the word on the street these days is it make her powerless. Less than an “independent” woman. A digger and the sort. Which is not at all true. The thing is there are men out there that want to be that man to the woman he is with. He wants to be there for her. But when you listen people now if you didn’t know any better, they would make you believe any man that is willing and capable of loving his woman and providing comfort and support for his woman is less of a man. Maybe less of a barbarian. But not a real man.

The one thing women and men both have in common in terms of relationship…we want to be respected. You stand you in role and I’ll stand in mine but let’s respect each other.

And another thing, folks are just lazy. You hear more of what I won’t or don’t want to do in a relationship than you hear of I want to make it work.

By SexyLeggs

June 17, 2008 10:39 AM | Link to this

Melo, I know who you are, and most times I know you’re playing. Nut man you are HARSH (even if it’s a throwback to yesteryear).

By The Melo

June 17, 2008 10:39 AM | Link to this

What a difference 5 years makes in my own attitude!! LOL!,my wife does this Foots, she does not close doors,leaves her shoes downstairs, anywhere, leave her purse by the stove etc.I am the opposite, i try to have my stuff in an orderly place and i always knw where i left my keys. But the important thing is tolerance and accomodation.When u find the one u luv, u must be in a position to be flexible and accomodating,nobody is perfect and i do have my own weaknesses.So does evrybody!!

By The Truth

June 17, 2008 10:42 AM | Link to this

Raqi great post. Give me an example of how a woman can deball a dude.

We’re all guilty of stereotping, sexism, racism (even within our own culture) and much more.

Sexism isn’t a problem when an unqualified chick gets promoted because she has c cups and bends over alot. It’s ok then. Or when a chick goes clubbing expecting dudes to buy them a drink. It’s only sexism when a chick is told to do what she was put on earth to do.

Slim Slim now building a cubicle fort out of copier paper, white out and paper clips…then says a prayer: Lord please don’t strike Truth down today. Don’t worry Slimmy, I have a great relationship with MY god and he says not to worry about the commercial god sold to the masses at 10% of their income. I’ll be ok.

In the end you can be as independent as you like on the street. When you come into my home your azz will be a woman or we’ll deal with it. I never want to get so sophiscated that I forget what I’m good at. We’re not going to negotiate how much of a man I’ll be. Sexist, hell yes but thats the way it rolls in Camp Truth. I feel sorry for dudes trying to negotiate with a woman how much of a man he’s allowed to be. SMH

Foots Are these men actually prepared to take care of a woman’s heart, body, and soul, if she were to offer them to him? Isn’t that alot to throw at someone. Ultimately you’re responsible for all that, I’m only here sharing apart of your life with you. I’ve had a FEW women tell me they didn’t feel I would protect their heart. I told them all the same thing, I won’t. It’s not my goal in life. If your feelings get hurt so what, get in line. If you’re soul is that delicate it will be damaged at somepoint by someone anyway. Your body will feel pain too. This is a part of that fantasy women are sold on a daily. “If he loves you he’ll never do anything to hurt you”. Bullshyt. Ask the folks in love who hurts them the most, their mate or their boss. Not even close. Happiness is knowing this person will hurt you and knowing you can go forward anyway.

By SlimOne

June 17, 2008 10:43 AM | Link to this

Foots LOL on the open cabinets & drawers….let me tell you. This same dude got me good one day. He goes in the kitchen and opens EVERYTHING with a drawer, door, or knob. So then he says he has a suprise for me and makes me walk into the kitchen with my eyes closed. So I open my eyes and almost freaked out. He got me good…I must admit…sly joka. So i laughed my azz to tears as I politely closed every door back. lololol I can honestly say that I had a “Sleeping with the Enemy” OCD moment.

But lets not leave out men’s idiocracies…lol The same man that had no problem getting undressed throughout the house leaving clothes everywhere could not stand breadcrumbs in the butter, or butter in the jelly or anything like that. lol So out of respect for him, i made some modifications. See how that works. lol

By SexyLeggs

June 17, 2008 10:43 AM | Link to this

OMG, sorry meant to say “But man…”

By Foots

June 17, 2008 10:44 AM | Link to this

Kym surely you are not going to make a comparison to the 3 or so men on this blog to rest of men in Atlanta?

Well, no, if you say I shouldn’t. This blog is a good cross-section of people in general in their behaviors and beliefs, and I can nearly guarantee that several women on here have occasionally run into men with the same negative attitudes like the ones expressed on here. I have, and that’s why I learned how to keep it moving.

would ask the woman why would you give yourself to a man who does not even begin to express that which you desire?

And yes, you hit on the point. Some women have experienced such negativity from men in their lives that they believe the lie that all men are dogs. Those women will never fully give themselves to anybody. And the men who have their best intentions at heart are left to tear down all of the walls she has built because of past disappointments.

Michael’s question was “Why won’t some women admit that they want to be taken care of?” And my question in return is “Why would they, if the men they’ve experienced aren’t prepared or willing to take care of them?” It takes a lot of courage, trust and faith to remove emotional barriers in order to have meaningful relationships, but like he said “How can you get it, if you won’t admit it (that you need each other)?”

By AmazonRed

June 17, 2008 10:45 AM | Link to this

Dan I’ve never played the flute, so will the recorder work?

By AmazonRed

June 17, 2008 10:47 AM | Link to this

The one thing women and men both have in common in terms of relationship…we want to be respected. You stand you in role and I’ll stand in mine but let’s respect each other.

And another thing, folks are just lazy. You hear more of what I won’t or don’t want to do in a relationship than you hear of I want to make it work.

Raqi - Again, AMEN! Sometimes you only have to come to this blog to see why the state of the family is in such disarray.

By kimmie

June 17, 2008 10:50 AM | Link to this

Kym - Yeah, you’re right, that was my “angry black woman” showing!LOL We all admitted we hold stereotypes, good or bad, about others, in the class. Actually, the thought that “Blacks are lazy or feel entitled” was also one of the negetives list too. I was like “why did she have to pull ME aside to ask me this?”, when we already discussed it in class as a negative? Didn’t do the neck-roll, but yeah, it definitely rubbed me the wrong way!

By Alvin

June 17, 2008 10:53 AM | Link to this

Foots and A.Red the only thing I do is treat people with respect and treat them how I want to be treated…With Respect. I don’t need a degree to do all that. Let me ask you: Do you think that the word “relationship” only applies to male-female romantic interactions? No, I just don’t think about relationships with people as you do…I either respect you or I don’t. As long as the respect (and trust) is there, nothing else matter…I am a people person, so I don’t count no way. Since I’ve change my character, I have more good’n’postive friends than negative.

QC Hey Bay!!

By Foots

June 17, 2008 10:53 AM | Link to this

Truth See Raqi’s comment: The thing is there are men out there that want to be that man to the woman he is with. He wants to be there for her. But when you listen people now if you didn’t know any better, they would make you believe any man that is willing and capable of loving his woman and providing comfort and support for his woman is less of a man.

When I speak of taking care of mind, body and soul, I speak of being “willing and capable of loving his woman and providing comfort and support for his woman”. No one (I hope) is naive enough to believe that they will never be hurt by the person they love, either intentionally or unintentionally. Let’s be realistic. I’ve hurt people I’ve loved knowingly and without any intention of doing so. We all have buttons that people don’t even know are there, so they can’t possibly realized that they’ve pushed them. So that’s not what I’m talking about.

Again, Raqi explained it better than I did. See if you can understand it her way.

melo But the important thing is tolerance and accomodation.When u find the one u luv, u must be in a position to be flexible and accomodating,nobody is perfect

You are definitely right. As everybody in longer term and marriage relationships tell me, you just have to put up with some things that will irritate the ish out of you. I realized that I’d rather suck it up and shut the doors and have him there, than have everything orderly and in place and have him gone.

By Dan

June 17, 2008 10:55 AM | Link to this

I’ll admit to playing on here some days (like yesterday, Truth you a fool!), but today I’m actually quite serious.

I’ve seen what damage a failed relationship can have on a person, but in the end (one of the 5 stages of grief) they find happiness when they come to accept the role and responsibility that they had in the demise of that relationship.

@Foots

To the point you made earlier about relationships it can boil down to those semantics that we discussed to the other day. A business associate is not a friend, the guy that cuts my hair is being paid to perform a service - and thus not my pal. Buy to-may-to, to-mah-to right?

Micheal Baisden? Really? I always thought he was Frank Ski with less of the Soul Glo and a deeper voice….for a mintue, I thought they were the same person…

By SlimOne

June 17, 2008 10:57 AM | Link to this

Truth I have some Protection Beads & Incense on special just for you today. One of each for a low price of $79.99. If you buy now, I’ll even throw in a yaga mat and 2 capsules of vitamin E.

By Wise Diva

June 17, 2008 10:59 AM | Link to this

I just want to say THANK YOU for putting some thought into your comments today. I am enjoying what people are contributing so far…when I get this quiet, that’s a GOOD thing, LOL

By star

June 17, 2008 11:00 AM | Link to this

The Truth your 10:42 turned me on.I like your attitude.

By Foots

June 17, 2008 11:05 AM | Link to this

Alvin the only thing I do is treat people with respect and treat them how I want to be treated…With Respect. I don’t need a degree to do all that.

Respect is the foundation of a good relationship. It does seem like it’s important to you, so you addressed your own statement.

But where did the degree comment come from??

Dan I was speaking in generic relationship terms, not only close ones. Relationships are defined as a state involving mutual dealings between people (or parties or countries). I have a relationship with the guy who sits across from me, though sometimes I wish I could kick him in the chest and balls at the same time. But that doesn’t minimize the importance of our working relationship. We need each other. And yep, I have a good relationship with my stylist. If it turns bad, I’m leaving her azz. LOL!

By Dan

June 17, 2008 11:13 AM | Link to this

So after all that…

Can anybody tell what sexism is? So that’s I’ll know it if I see it?

By Beautiful

June 17, 2008 11:15 AM | Link to this

What were you taught as young girls about a man’s role in relationships and/or marriage?

maybe that was the problem. i wasn’t told about the man’s role in a relationship. i seen what was going on around me. i’m gonna be honest here. it still bothers me that we (women) fight to be equal. i want to be equal. BUT i do want my husband to be the leader and protect me. i’m not confused, lol. what i’m saying is that i can mow the lawn too, and i’m pretty sure i can change a tire if you show me how. and my ex-supervisor at work, we seen how he treated the male employees. smh. i could have made a stink about it, but why? what would it have changed? nothing. hillary, that poor child. she would have been a great president. but try to find one man who would allow her to lead us!!! as soon as she cried in front of the cameras, i knew she lost her chance.

By Beautiful

June 17, 2008 11:22 AM | Link to this

Sexism isn’t a problem when an unqualified chick gets promoted because she has c cups and bends over alot. It’s ok then. Or when a chick goes clubbing expecting dudes to buy them a drink. It’s only sexism when a chick is told to do what she was put on earth to do.

it never fails. everyday i get what i come here for. thanks!

By Staceye AKA Black Mamba

June 17, 2008 11:22 AM | Link to this

Good Day all…

Raqi I caught some of that show too…and I s