Braves

By keylargo

January 15, 2009 10:59 PM | Link to this

First and don’t want AJ?

By now

January 15, 2009 11:03 PM | Link to this

first

By CharlieAlphaBravo

January 15, 2009 11:03 PM | Link to this

Second?

By chopper2chipper

January 15, 2009 11:04 PM | Link to this

I think the potential of an Andruw comeback is too great to pass up — at a league minimum with incentives, that is. I’d love to have him back.

By briane76

January 15, 2009 11:04 PM | Link to this

andruw looked like he was in good shape, i personally think that it was his knee and him being overweight that absolutley killed him last year, so i say give him a chance, i mean theres gotta be somebody on that 40 man roster that is expendable. i want to believe.

By Wayne in Utah

January 15, 2009 11:07 PM | Link to this

Geez Dave, I was hoping you would use the “Ballad of Andruw Jones” that I wrote last year, as your song for this post. (to the tune of Curtis Lowe)

Now you’ve gone and hurt my poor little fragile feelings!

:0

By Wayne in Utah

January 15, 2009 11:11 PM | Link to this

(written before AJ left the first time, and before JS was promoted)

I hope the spacing is OK…..

Ballad of Andruw Jones ( to the tune of “Curtis Lowe”)

Well I used to wake the mornin, before the rooster crowed Searchin for soda bottles to get myself some dough Brought em down to the corner, down to the country store Cash em in and give my money to watch a man named Andruw Jones

Well Andruw was a bat man with a pull hitting style When the pitcher would mess one up, he’d hit that ball a mile. He used to own and old hickory, when he’d swing he’d make a breeze I’d lay down my ticket money and he’d whiff all day for me

Swing that bat strong Andruw Jones, Andruw Jones Homeboy got yo contract money swing it for some dough Bloggers said he was useless them bloggers all were fools Cuz Andruw Jones was the finest out-avoider to ever swing the wood.

He looked to be 40, maybe I was 10 Momma used to whoop me, but I’d go see him again. I’d clap my hands, tomahawk chop, then I’d stomp my feet
He’d strike out a time or two and have another Krispy Kreme.

Swing that bat strong Andruw Jones, Andruw Jones Homeboy got yo contract money swing it for some dough Bloggers said he was useless, them bloggers all were fools Cuz Andruw Jones was the finest out-avoider to ever swing the wood.

On the day that he whiffed five times, everybody blogged to say “If he woulda hit to right, we’d won that game today!” Well he might have been famous, he could go get the ball. And that day in Beantown, I think he hit the wall.

Swing that bat strong Andruw Jones, Andruw Jones Homeboy got yo contract money swing it for some dough Bloggers said he was useless them bloggers all were fools Cuz Andruw Jones was the finest out-avoider to ever swing the wood.

By Eric B

January 15, 2009 11:12 PM | Link to this

Sign Ohman and trade for Dye…

By Plate Appearance

January 15, 2009 11:13 PM | Link to this

WHAT ABOUT PRADO AT 2B?

I’ve not seen very much said about the possibility of using Prado/Infante at 2B with Kelly moved back to LF.

What about this possibility DOB? Any thoughts? Anything you’ve heard here?

I like our players and would rather keep them than trading some for a rent a LF for a year, as would be the case with Nady — as a Boras soon to be free agent.

Prado had such a great season last year. Why not give him a chance?

Steve From Ohio, when did Wren state that he wouldn’t move Johnson to LF and insert Prado at 2B? I hadn’t heard this.

I think Prado has the makings of a quality everyday second baseman — while moving KJ back to LF world give him a chance to further work on his power numbers.

By im4ball

January 15, 2009 11:13 PM | Link to this

Seems arrogant to say you wont take a minor league contract after playing bad and being released before your contract is complete. To me this is exactly the problem with Andruw.

Why would the Braves want to sign someone who is not willing to take the small contract and prove he still belongs in the majors by trying hard and playing well…..

The Braves need to forget Andruw and sign someone who cares about more than themselves.

I would rather take a chance on Adam Dunn. Forget the weaker defensive skills, the Braves need a prototypical clean up hitter…which Dunn is.

By doc

January 15, 2009 11:13 PM | Link to this

as you have stated many choices are out there david. others include either probs between the ears, i.e. confidence gone, lack of desire or interest, pressure too much for contract, a new form of dreaded steve blass disease for hitters or a subject never considered for him but a substance abuse problem or a lack of substance such as roids. finally, a yet to be diagnosed medical issue. these are all included in the differential diagnosis for his flame out on the big stage with the big contract looming, then signed. back in the contract year i didnt think he wanted what boras wanted but fell for the big contract, the pressure from his agent and other outside interests and all it brought. maybe he is a simple guy not feeling worthy; stranger things have happened.

sad it has come to this as he was a comet on the way to the hall. heard that the interview was an embarrassment today dob did you hear it. my source said he sounded like he was still in bed asleep, sick or worse than that. he has now burned up and fallen back to earth.

By Cameron in NC

January 15, 2009 11:15 PM | Link to this

I think, he wanted a lot of money. So we went with the biggest deal to LA. He knew his knee hurt so he wanted surgery, and sucked on purpose so he could get the surgery that season, and sucked so LA would release him, that way he would be paid all that money and released to come back to atlanta! =] and he will sign with atlanta and hit 30+ homeruns =] oh ya

By i cant take it anymore

January 15, 2009 11:20 PM | Link to this

dru has to get a minor league deal if he comes back to the braves…has to. like you said, David, the dodgers just let 20M walk.

getnathan… i’ll take kj and his “streaky” hitting. i think the guy has nice talent

By Eric from MO

January 15, 2009 11:21 PM | Link to this

I disagree Andruw is in good shape; he’s just less fat. In all seriousness I dont want him back. However, if they want to give him a shot, give him a minor league deal. It shouldnt matter to him, other than pride, because he will get 21 mil regardless and when you have fallen this fast you should not let pride get in the way. I dont think he could feel more shamed than how LA turned out.

By Steve from OH

January 15, 2009 11:23 PM | Link to this

Plate appearance, I heard him say it on a radio interview here.

He seems pretty adamant that it wasn’t going to happen.

By ChipperFan

January 15, 2009 11:23 PM | Link to this

Everybody please mark my words:

Andruw will never be even a shadow of his former self again. He can no longer throw, is very, very slow both in the field and on the basebaths, and will never recapture his ability to hit major league pitching.

How can I possibly know this with such certainty? Because he’s been awful since 2006! This is 2009 people. Get real.

By NickB

January 15, 2009 11:23 PM | Link to this

I’m sure everyone is gonna flame me for this idea. But hear me out!!

What about a LF platoon of Diaz and Edmonds? Edmonds ha an OPS of .884 against RH pitching last year for the cubbies and hit 18 HR’s in 85 games. Diaz , has a career OPS of over .900 against LH pitching, less power than Edmonds but solid.

I would think such a platoon could generate 25 HR’s 90 RBI’s and a pretty solid OPS for LF!! Not to mention it would be cheap ( couple million at most), not cost any prospects like Dye and/or Nady and if we are not in the hunt we can flip Edmonds to a contender for a prospect or two.

I really don’t see any downside unless Edmonds finally craps out. ( which does have potential).

By chucky

January 15, 2009 11:24 PM | Link to this

If Andruw comes back here, put him in LF. I think he will relax a little and be able to focus on his plate production out there. I have heard from time to time, teams usually put their least best outfielder in LF. I don’t know how true that is but it seems so cliche. But Andruw out there, with his arm as well, is a bonus. That is a very solid defensive outfield, for a pitching staff that will need it. The best arms usually in RF & CF. His arm in LF would be great!! He has a surgically repaired knee as well. It would be a mistake to bring him back here and then have him deal with the rigors of CF. Anderson has the speed and range to play in CF regularly. I don’t see the need to rush Schafer, unless he has a SUPER spring or Anderson fails miserably as the leadoff guy(I don’t think either of those will happen…I expect Schafer will start the season at Triple A). We can pass on Dunn(money, high K total and defensive liability) and Abreu(notoriously slow starter at the plate- don’t need a Tex re-incarnation, not a lot of power to be warranted as power bat). I don’t see another bat out there that is really worth us giving up a prospect for right now. Not high on Nady( His bat isn’t what I would classify as a power bat, and he is a former Met as well- don’t ever trust those former Mets on our team- i.e. Woodward, Brogna & Gotay. The only former Met to do well here that I can remember was Matt Franco). The Yankees are going to hold on tight to Swisher(no need to over spend on prospects for him- Yanks would try it too, even though they need middle relief).

By glord

January 15, 2009 11:24 PM | Link to this

I dont think Andrew really cares enough to keep his career going. I saw him in Spring training last year and he was not a little overweight - he was fat. Unless he is committed to getting in top shape and reshaping his swing I say pass.

By Adam

January 15, 2009 11:25 PM | Link to this

I say why not let him have his chance, he did give us so much, and he did give us a break on the money the last time we signed him. He will return to form but only if he is humbled by T.P. DOB dont you agree.

By richbrave

January 15, 2009 11:25 PM | Link to this

ANDRUW’s decline was so precipitate, and the hands off routine by both the BRAVES and DODGERS leaves a real….well, there just isn’t a word for it. Could there have been any “juice” involved in this case? I never thought ANDRUW would take advantage in any way, but his situation is strange to say the least, and makes one wonder at this point.

By Sub-Prae

January 15, 2009 11:26 PM | Link to this

No need to bring Andruw back. We’ve got enough filler in the outfield anyway, and what we have is better than Andruw by a long shot.

By Wayne in Utah

January 15, 2009 11:27 PM | Link to this

With the price of FA outfielders going down by the week, and with the Yankees, the Chisox, the Cards and a couple other teams having OF’ers available, I was hoping our old buddy Andruw would show us how much he wanted to come back by accepting a minor league contract.

If he worked out and if Schafer looked good, we probably wouldn’t need to deal for an outfielder. If he didn’t, or if Schafer didn’t look like he was going to make the bell, then all those guys who are getting cheaper by the week, some might still be there.

Alas, if the ex-fat boy doesn’t want to have to prove himself, let him go do it somewhere else.

I might be sorry later for saying that, but dang it, who’s running the insane asylum anyway?

You wanna come back, prove it.

By Reality

January 15, 2009 11:27 PM | Link to this

when did Wren state that he wouldn’t move Johnson to LF and insert Prado at 2B? I hadn’t heard this.

Wren said Furcal was the only person he’d even consider moving Kelly Johnson to the outfield for.

I’d much prefer the Braves get a real left fielder and leave Johnson at second than move him to left and put Prado at second. That would essentially be making Prado the Braves new “power-hitting left fielder.” No thanks.

By d-rock

January 15, 2009 11:27 PM | Link to this

Great thoughts on a ‘day off’ DOB. Andruw and Smoltz were always some of my favorite braves. It would be a great nostalgic move to bring him back when Smoltz leaves town. Andruw just seems so far away from the great player he used to be.

A note on the blog: you’ve really outgrown the technology here. It seems there have been some updates, but this thing really is a dinosaur. Any thoughts on making this thing really sing with a little more sophisticated commenting capability or profiles for commenters? It’s a little silly the thing always crashes after 1k comments. You’re pretty clearly doing the paper a great service with all the clicks you send their way, they (or a decent web designer) ought to pony up a little cash or effort to give you the platform you deserve.

Perhaps its coincidence, but I’ve noticed that a lot of the national wire stories really trove this blog for ideas which seem to find their way into their stories, and even some of the comments of us hacks for ideas. Seems like they ought to give you a little more credit.

By Big Fan Of Andruw

January 15, 2009 11:29 PM | Link to this

It’s hard to believe that the quality of strip clubs deteriorated so greatly in the last few years that the Curacao Carb grew so depressed and sullen that he became a compulsive eater to soothe his angst. That little boy smirk—sure does look like Ali—-demonstrated a total lack of committment to his employers. He is a dog of such epic proportion that the term “Dog” should be upgraded for description sake.

By Say No To Obesity

January 15, 2009 11:31 PM | Link to this

David, Sometimes the use of lyrics in a blog seem inappropriate. No song should be sullied by being utilized in conjunction with this fat boy.

By N Nine (º•º)

January 15, 2009 11:31 PM | Link to this

DOB, thanks for the new blog! You have been on overtime mode since your trip. Lets get Andruw on a minor league contract. Boras finally have no leverage(smiling) . AJ: sign the minor league contract for 410k NOW. You may not get the chance later!!! Everyone in the world know you want to be a brave again. You need comfort to overcome this huge fall.

denizens, I am very curious about everyone’s opinion regarding Swisher and Nady. Want do you think? Yankees have talented outfielders that could get tangled for a reasonable price. Cashman in a position to give away talent! Seems like he never is on the other side.

Swisher has huge talent that would like to forget 2008. I think Wren wants him more..

Nady is exciting and we saw PLENTY of his power and big hits in late innings. We cann now deal with Boras(Lowe is smiling) and he will be a FA come fall…..

By kerryb

January 15, 2009 11:31 PM | Link to this

Andrew said he would’nt take a minor league. He’s getting paid by the Dodgers for nothing and can’t play anymore and says that he won’t take a minor league deal. Does he really think that anyone is going to pay his worthless a** anything besides a minor league deal. Braves please move on and forget this clown.

By CharlieAlphaBravo

January 15, 2009 11:32 PM | Link to this

I can think of a fairly obvious explanation for Andruw’s decline (or rather, free fall) that you didn’t mention. As much as I like him and don’t want to consider it, I know that if he were a Met, I would have already written him off as another deflated ‘roid head.

It just seems like the ball stopped popping off of his bat. In his last year with the Bravos, he often took swings that looked like they would’ve been no-doubters in ‘05, only to see them fall just short of the wall. It’s true that Andruw possesed plenty of pop when he was young and slender (check out a tape of the ‘96 World Series if you don’t believe me—he was 19), but then again, so did Barry Bonds.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not condemning Andruw or even saying that I think he hit the needle. It’s just an awfully convenient explanation. Of course, I think it’s just as likely that he simply lost it. Pitchers learned how to pitch him, and he couldn’t make the necessary adjustments. Either way, league-minimum sounds like a small price to pay for a player who so recently was one of the best all-around players in the game. Talk about a potential upside…

By N Nine (º•º)

January 15, 2009 11:37 PM | Link to this

$10.7 million per homer=Guinness World Record

No wonder the dude wanted to eat good!

By David O'Brien

January 15, 2009 11:40 PM | Link to this

NickB, i don’t think Edmonds as a platoon guy is such a bad idea at all. But don’t know if he’s interested. I like Nady more, long as Braves don’t have to give up too much for a one-year rental.

By tr

January 15, 2009 11:41 PM | Link to this

DOB,

It may sound simplistic, but has AJ had a thorough eye exam since his hitting slide?

By David O'Brien

January 15, 2009 11:42 PM | Link to this

d-rock, i don’t have the time or the influence to get anything done to the technology. we’re a big company, bro, and the writers aren’t asked what we should do in terms of tech advances. not that i’d know the first thing to tell them if I was asked, other than, do something so the thing doesn’t crash after 1,000 posts.

I’m assured that technology is on the way to end that recently chronic problem.

By Cameron in NC

January 15, 2009 11:52 PM | Link to this

Matt Diaz and the Braves avoided arbitration. Diaz will earn at least $1.2375MM, but could earn $50K more if he makes 600 plate appearances.

By winterville

January 16, 2009 12:02 AM | Link to this

DOB

Have you heard anything about the arbitration players left for the Braves? I think there only 4 left know that Diaz has signed and the are KJ, Frenchy, Gonzo and Kotch. Do you think any of them will go to arb. or do you feel like it will be settled before hand? I think Frenchy’s case could be tough and painful if it actually went to the hearings because his name will get some serious dirt thrown on it for his last year. I know KJ’s name seems to always come up in trade rumors but I would love it if they could lock him up long term deal and buy out a year or two of free agency for a good price for both sides. Just curious if you have heard anything about the arb. situation. Thanks.

By Greg O.

January 16, 2009 12:06 AM | Link to this

If Matt Diaz makes 600 plate appearances, I’ll give $50K of my own money. Is it even worth putting that clause into the contract?

By MVH

January 16, 2009 12:11 AM | Link to this

I like Rowland Office’s idea of trading for Brian Roberts rather than Nady/Swisher. DOB, do you think the Braves would be better off with a legit leadoff hitter like Roberts than they would with Swisher or Nady (and then moving Kelly down in the order where he hits better)?

By NickB

January 16, 2009 12:13 AM | Link to this

I would love to see us lock up KJ for say 5 years $30 mill or so. Kotchman, I would prolly wait until after this season to see how much , but it wouldn’t hurt to offer him something similar. Even if Freeman is ready before his contract was up Kotch would be an attractive trade for many teams.

Frenchy botched this by refusing the deal offered him last year.If he goes to arby he will not win and is prolly better off not having to deal with the ugliness of it and take what the Braves offer him. He can’t expect a raise after last season can he ? ( well , not much of one anyway)

By i cant take it anymore

January 16, 2009 12:20 AM | Link to this

curacao carb is pretty funny this late at night

By nolie

January 16, 2009 12:22 AM | Link to this

Swisher has huge talent that would like to forget 2008. I think Wren wants him more.. N Nine

I am not happy with the idea of signing Swisher, We would then have book-end corner OFers both coming off of horrendous seasons-Swishers in a great hitters park. Man o man, talk about living dangerously.Those two would scare me nigh to death. Of course if they get him I’ll start praying right away. maybe that’ll help some. LOL

By BrandonC

January 16, 2009 12:23 AM | Link to this

The Braves need to move past Andruw, I just don’t believe he has anything left. And his numbers since 2006 prove that.

Wren needs to get Nady or Swisher to play left and let Anderson start in CF until Schafer gets the callup midseason.

Just think, we’re going to see BOTH Schafer and Hanson make there major league debuts this year. I’m so excited and can’t wait. It’s time to look toward the future people and stop living in the past.

By Bravestillidie

January 16, 2009 12:30 AM | Link to this

I would like to inform everyone about an interesting fact about Andruw you might not know. And yes I firmly believe his career is over until his hubris has evaporated and starts watching tape of his old batting stnace and losing a ton of weight. But interestingly enough, Andruw Jones was not only cut from the Dodgers, but he was CUT from the Dominican Winter League team he was palying for. Yes that is Correct. His winter league team CUT HIM I frankly don’t even think he’s worth the risk. Use that money to make the grass in the infield thicker so that all those groundballs DLowe’s sinker, JJ’s chage, JV’s change and KK’s split are gonna induce. Money much better spent.

BTID

By #1 Smoltz Fan

January 16, 2009 12:30 AM | Link to this

I know it is not a popular opinion here on the infamous DOB blog, but I say we have to bring AJ back for the league minimum, 1 year deal. Obviously a player does not completely forget how to play the game over a 1 or even 2 year timeframe.

He probably has some Psychy issues that a few months with the doc COULD clear right up? Let me ask you this, for league min putting him in LF and batting him 8th in the order…..what exactly is the risk? Of course that is the WORST case scenario with potential that he returns to 50% of what he used to be knocks in a good 25-30 HR and provides some very solid Defense in Left.

I will be honest I didnt see him play with old blue last year, has he lost speed, or his he mis-judging every fly ball or something? I mean he was a Gold Glove CF for how many years, I cannot imagine that it is all just GONE.

I know I am relying way too much on the “WHAT IF” factor but is it possible the knee was causing pain, slowing him down and really messing with the concentration to the point he lost quite a few steps, got depressed and just gave up?

Bringing him home is a no-brainer for me. He could play LF in 2009, maybe CF if he bounces back. The problem is we need the BIG BAT in the outfield.

Mr. “I am the master” Wren needs to keep driving for that last few pieces to the puzzle that may salvage a .500 season,and I hope he finds someway to let Andruw be a part of it.

We gave Javy a chance for god’s sake.

By Christopher Hillman

January 16, 2009 12:43 AM | Link to this

“Braves Sign Derek Lowe”

One step forward….

“Braves Sign Andruw Jones”

….and two step back. Nobody gets too far like that.

By TNScott

January 16, 2009 12:44 AM | Link to this

DOB I used to wonder watching Andrew’s diving catches during the late 90’s and early into this century if it that wouldn’t eventually hasten the end of his career. I’m not claiming to be prophet or anything, but I’ve always remembered early on in Larry Bird’s career that his coaches and others around him tried to discourage him from diving on the court so often because they felt it would shorten his career. He retired after 13 seasons due to back problems. I know the surfaces are different, but the baseball season is twice as long and mostly during the hottest part of the year which further takes a toll. I,also remember Don Mattingly’s career ending somewhat prematurely due to back problems which some believed were a result of his batting practice regiment. Andrew’s swing seems to have gotten progressively slower in the last few years. His back may or may not be the issue but it appears to me that, for whatever reason or reasons, like Legend and Mattingly he’s worn himself out. Just an observation.

By #1 Smoltz Fan

January 16, 2009 12:50 AM | Link to this

Another thought, if Anderson plays center (assuming Mr Wren cant find a bat to spend LM’s money on, likely) could Andruw not play off the bench? For league minimum that seems like even less of a risk than counting on him in LF.

Just another idea.

By Wayne in Utah

January 16, 2009 12:51 AM | Link to this

AJ looked pretty good in the batting cage on the channel 5 news, but hey, I look pretty good in the cage, and I am 53.

By Cameron in NC

January 16, 2009 12:56 AM | Link to this

Christopher Hillman

How can you take two steps back. The Braves will sign him to a minor league contract if they do sign him. And it will be for league minimum. Its not that big of a risk. If he goes to spring training and sucks, he gets released, braves lose a little 400K witch is like 2 dollars to the baseball world. If he does good, we have a great player for only that much. No way thats two steps back in my opinion. Its a low risk high reward type deal.

By Terry McGuirk

January 16, 2009 12:57 AM | Link to this

We feel like Andruw would be a nice compliment to our young core. We like our young core.

By scottbravesfan

January 16, 2009 1:04 AM | Link to this

Hey Dave,

Does any of the other blogs even come close to a 1,000 posts?

Also I think they should bring Andruw back on a one year minimum contract. Also think they should be trying to sign Adam Dunn or Bobby Abreau.

By Robert (Chipper Is The Best)

January 16, 2009 1:07 AM | Link to this

The explanation for Andruw’s fall is a simple one. He is too stubborn to realize he has to make adjustments and along with that he was coddled by Bobby Cox who did him no favors by doing that. Terry Pendleton repeatedly express frustration over Andruw’s refusal to change his swing even after it was clear his swing was off. Instead of sending a clear message that things had to change and sitting him down Cox continued to praise Andruw which only fed Andruw’s belief that he was right and nothing was really wrong with his swing. Cox did the same thing Frenchy but hopefully Frenchy is young enough where it won’t permanently affect him.

Personally, I think Andruw is worth the risk if he is signed to a minor league contract. If Andruw insists on a major league contract I would still consider it but only if he realizes he isn’t getting more than a million or two. The worst that can happen is that he shows he’s really done and the Braves can cut their ties. Or he could get his groove back and become the Andruw of old or at least close to it!

By UGA75

January 16, 2009 1:21 AM | Link to this

DOB

Another great blog. I agree that Andruw’s eyes need an indepth checking before he is even considered. Almost every Major League hitter has better than 20-20 Vision, with or without contacts. They have to have superior vision to pick up ball spin and then react in that split second to hit a ball moving at 90-95 MPH. I don’t think there is a remote chance Andruw ever touched any HGH or other such hormones. He did get fat, but that was a result of his leaving Atlanta, and he was chronicly depressed. I know something about that since I’ve dealt with it personally and then professionally to help others as I was helped.

If we are rebuilding leave Andruw on the side, if we want to win this year, give him a shot.

By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)

January 16, 2009 1:21 AM | Link to this

Morning everybody. I’m giving A.J. the thumbs down.

Now that the rotation has been rebuilt, when and how do the Braves go about answering the question that as of yet, has not been addressed. Our abysmal outfield?

David O’Brien, question. What of Anthony Lerew? He finished the season in AAA Richmond and then made two starts in winter ball. Is the 26 year old right hander still considered healthy? Thanks.

By Logan

January 16, 2009 1:24 AM | Link to this

Wayne in Utah 12:51

I think we need a second opinion on both accounts!

By uga-brave

January 16, 2009 1:31 AM | Link to this

andruw still can hit,

give him a chance, cant do worse then our current right fielder.

29, 19, 11, so who is worse.

i would take my chances with andruw.

frenchy or andruw?

at least druw jacked up close to 50 one year.

at least andruw carried the braves one year.

forgot did you?

guarantee francoeur will never hit 45 and 120.

but, hey andruw is not from gwinett county.

if francoeur struggles in the spring, he will cry.

ridddle me this, you get more at bats then anyone.

the braves have given frenchy every chance.

watch when cole hammel’s blows him away.

excuses,excuses.

By mr baseball

January 16, 2009 1:31 AM | Link to this

Glad to see somebody else finally mentioned Edmonds as a low cost possibility in the OF. Makes sense on several levels, although Nady would be a better fit, providing the cost in talent is reasonable.

DOB:

I realize it would have been cruel, but Randy Newman’s “Davy the Fat Boy,” would have been an awfully appropriate lyrics choice for tonight’s blog topic. Guessing you watched the recent PBS screening of Neil’s most recent concert movie. Keep Little Feat’s “Old Folks Boogie” in mind whenever you get around to a Glavine blog. Some snappy one-liners there.

Tonight’s late night spinoff topic: Has any team in baseball history gotten less for its money than the Dodgers did for Andruw? There have been a lot of big money busts, but I can’t recall anyone being as stupifyingly putrid as Andruw was in his brief stay in LA.

By ronnie van zant

January 16, 2009 1:37 AM | Link to this

Wayne in Utah, you just made me roll over in my grave. How about the Ballad of Andruw Blows?

By uga-brave

January 16, 2009 1:44 AM | Link to this

wayne.

three day weekend.. i am going to ALTA.

flying into salt lake tommorow.

no snowboarders in alta. just skiers.

the wife is yelling at me, but i cant wait to see the powder.

love park city, and ALTA is the best.

By uga-brave

January 16, 2009 2:19 AM | Link to this

mr. baseball,

are you serious, jim edmonds?

the dude is a flopper. never seen a guy that dives at everything. he is full of himself.

not a fit.

i am a andruw fan, i think he would be great.

i know i am in the minority, but druw would be great, for the right price.

gotta a huge hunge he might suprise a bunch of you doubters.

By NickB

January 16, 2009 2:27 AM | Link to this

Edmonds in Lf would be a decent platoon and would provide good D there ( better than Dunn or Abreu) in a platoon with Diaz I would expect decent production from them.

What does being a “flopper” have anything to do with the fact that we need a productive LF bat and I don’t think we can afford any of the name FA’s?

Plus he is cheap and we lose no prospects.

By mr baseball

January 16, 2009 2:40 AM | Link to this

uga:

Check out Edmonds’ numbers last year with the Cubs. Slightly better than Andruw’s pathetic effort in LA. He’s a hot dog. So what? The guy has been a solid producer his entire career and can still go get it in CF, a talent that has passed Andruw by.

If the Braves could swing a reasonable deal for Nady and sign Edmonds, they could cut Blanco and Diaz loose and have a pretty decent offensive OF among those 2 + Francouer (the bane of existence for a lot of folks on here) & Anderson.

Think of it: a lineup with 8 potential HR hitters and not a serious defensive liability in sight.

I tried unsuccessfully with the afternoon denizens, so I’ll try again with the late night crowd. The majority on here are convinced that Francouer has never been a productive player in an Atlanta uniform.

There is absolutely no question he was pitiful last year and was an extreme detriment to the team. But I would appreciate it if someone could explain to me how his low OBP is a more accurate assessment of his value in ‘06 and ‘07 (not to mention his second half in ‘05) than 100+ RBI and a .300+ average w/RISP.

No one has come up with an intelligent explanation yet. Still waiting. Any takers?

By N8

January 16, 2009 2:42 AM | Link to this

uga

You’r confusing me. You are one of the biggest Frenchy bashers on the blog, yet you think that Andruw would be “great, for the right price”.

In 2006, 2007, 2008, Francoeur has COMBINED to make 1.272 million dollars.

How in the hell, is there a “right price” for Andruw, and Francoeur is not worth what he’s getting paid, in relative terms to his output?

Don’t give me the defense either, because Andruw’s defense (according to anybody who cares to comment about it - scouts and mlb GM’s, coaches and what not - NOT bloggers), says it’s severely in decline.

Now. Don’t get me wrong. I actually agree with you. FFor the right price, Andruw is worth a look. Like DOB states, I’m not so keen to the idea of Braves having to remove somebody from the 40 man roster to clear space for him, but the risk/reward is a good gamble.

Andruw and Frenchy basically have the same damn approach at the plate. Which is NO APPROACH at all, other than to hack and jack, and pray for contact.

Just confused at why you’re on board with one and not the other?

By jed

January 16, 2009 3:08 AM | Link to this

the decision with andruw seems pretty clear cut. you offer him a minor-league contract. if he shows no signs of making the grade by the end of spring training, you cut him loose. the central question with him is how committed is he to doing the things he needs to do to re-establish himself as a player? by this, i mean simply learning to listen to his hitting coach and take instruction on how to get the mechanics of his swing back. the problem in 2007 was his refusal to try a better approach at the plate. a lot of that, at the time, seemed like a deadly combination of arrogance and apathy. if he “has no interest in taking a minor-league contract,” then he’s just answered the central question here and is not worth taking a chance on.

By N8

January 16, 2009 3:14 AM | Link to this

mr. baseball

I’m not gonna claim that Francoeur was NEVER productive.

He was. But anybody with a set of working eyes, could see that his approach was horrible.

Many have compared him (in the past - not so much anymore) to Vlad. But the difference is, that Vlad, even though he hacks at anything between the on deck circles, always seems to be in control, never off-balance, never completely guessing, and most importantly, if he is gonna swing at a pitch that is a foot outside, and barely above the ground, he’s gonna drive it the other way. Not ground out, AB after AB, by dribbling the ball to the SS, or popping up.

For so long, any announcers, many bloggers and baseball pundits on the talk shows and ESPN’s Baseball Tonight, questioned why on earth would an opposing pitcher give him a first pitch fastball.

Guess what. Opposing pitchers adjusted, ans STOPPED giving him strikes to hit on the first pitch, and Jeff refused to adjust back.

I’m not gonna state that he will NEVER “get it” or be a good hitter. Plenty of time for that arguement, and for him to actually adjust (might take a manager and GM that sends him to the minors - and actually KEEPS HIM THERE until he does get it). But he has shown me NOTHING in recent history, to convince me that it’s in him to do so.

Thus, I’m going with the prove it to me theory. Until he shows me that he can adjust, I’m not gonna believe he can/will. When/if he actually does, I will be the first to admit I was wrong in doubting him.

The kid is young. Things could change. But with Gorkys, Shafer and Heyward on the way, his days in a Braves uniform are numbered if he doesn’t adjust. In fact I’ll go one step further. If he doesn’t adjust, his days as an everyday ML outfielder are numbered.

Not to many other managers out there, that would have cut him the slack that he got last year from Bobby. I’d say Joe Torre, but he surely didn’t cut Andruw any slack now, did he?

By N8

January 16, 2009 3:21 AM | Link to this

Excellent post jed. Couldn’t have said it better myself.

The guy is making 5 million dollars next year (and 16 more over the next 6 years), just to get the hell out of Dodge(r).

I’m not telling somebody how to earn their income. But Andruw is on a free ride.

If he misses Atlanta as bad as some say he does. If he REALLY feels like he could be helped by being around Bobby, which would re-spark his career, and maybe even mean another big pay-day (I’m guessing he has enough money, but…), then he would certainly take a minor league contract, and be willing to EARN his way on to the 25 (or even 40) man roster.

With the whole Smoltz situation, much has been made of respect, and disrespect and who wanted who, who didn’t want who and blah, blah, blah, yadda, yadda, yadda.

Bottom line: (I know DOB LOVES “bottom lines”), is that IF Smoltz wanted to be a Brave and finish his career in Atlanta, he would be a Brave. Regardless of how much money was or wasn’t offered by the Braves, Red Sox and any other club.

Same goes for Andruw. He either wants to be a Brave, or he doesn’t. If Frank can “treat” Smoltz the way he just did, he certainly isn’t gonna bend over for Andruw Jones and just give him a spot on the 40 man roster without earning it throughout ALL of spring training.

If Andruw doesn’t get that, after getting released by a team willing to EAT 21 million dollars, than he never will get it, and thus will NOT return to past glory.

I have a suspicion he gets it.

By Ritchie from Scotland

January 16, 2009 5:59 AM | Link to this

Ah Mr Jones, what are we going to do with you? If anything? It’s a risk, if just a minimal one. We should only take him back if he agrees to a minor league contract. Stick anybody on waivers they’re going to get snapped up, so is Andruw worth that? Hmm. Wren has made alot of tough decision this winter and I personally think he’s done a great job and got them all right. So I trust him to do the right thing in this situation to, whatever the right thing is…

By JasonInFL (Formerly ME)

January 16, 2009 7:19 AM | Link to this

Rosenthal is saying the Braves have slowed their pursuit of an OF because they have no money left. They may have no choice but to sign a guy like Andruw…and then pray.

By crispy

January 16, 2009 7:30 AM | Link to this

is spring training a good indication that andruw has regained his previous self? he will be hitting against minor league pitchers and major league pitchers at the beginning of the season, not the middle or end. i am guessing the only thing you can tell is he selection of pitches to hit, balance, and base running, and perhaps defense too.

i will start saving beer cans to throw at the tv if he comes back and he almosts gains altitude from spinning around like a helicopter.

By Fat Andy

January 16, 2009 7:32 AM | Link to this

Tim Brown of Yahoo Sports passed on this little tidbit:

Either way, Jones has been lost at the plate for two seasons, and his first away from Atlanta was particularly disastrous. He also went to the Dominican winter league in December and struggled in a short time there (three singles, eight strikeouts in 16 at-bats) before returning to the States, supposedly for personal reasons.

Even though he only had 16 AB’s, striking out in half you AB’s in the Dominican Winter League doesn’t seem to indicate things are turning around for Andruw.

Someone earlier made mention of what I thought was a valid point that I agree with. I don’t think Bobby Cox is the right “shrink” to turn Andruw around. He’s too hands off. Instead of sitting him down and telling him that his career is on the line if he doesn’t display total submission to the advice and teachings of those who can help, Bobby would simply clap his hands and tell Andruw how great he looked as he flailed and missed pitch after pitch.

By crispy

January 16, 2009 7:34 AM | Link to this

JasoninFL:

there isn’t enough beads on a rosary to pray for Andruw.

By 18 Wheels of Love

January 16, 2009 7:37 AM | Link to this

OK, I’ll be the one to ask it.

Why isn’t Andruw being mentioned as have used banned substances in the past? Dude got pretty big there for a few years before he packed on the pounds - a side effect if you don’t work out properly. Also, his decline began right around the clamp down on banned substances - right after a monster year. I’m in no way saying he did, but many other players who put up similar numbers and increased their body mass were whispered to have been users. Is it possible the Braves know about some possible test results that he may or may have not passed while he was a Brave a few years ago?

By dap01

January 16, 2009 7:38 AM | Link to this

I love Andruw but when he said that he wouldn’t accept a minor league deal, I got a sick feeling in my stomach. That same sick feeling that I have when I read DOB’s blog above recanting Andruw’s fall from grace.

Don’t be stubborn now Andruw.

By 18 Wheels of Love

January 16, 2009 7:40 AM | Link to this

Didn’t we slip Francisley Bueno through waivers to put Lowe on the 40 man roster? Couldn’t he slip through waivers again to accomodate Andruw a small MLB deal?

By Coach Smith

January 16, 2009 7:53 AM | Link to this

I‘ve said it before on a recent blog… I DO NOT UNDERSTAND THE UNRELENTING ANDRUW HATE AND BASHING GOING ON HERE!!!!

The WORST season he had for the Braves he still had 20+hrs and drove in nearly 100 runs while playing Gold Glove CF

those numbers are far and away better than anything we got from the outfield last year..ALMOST as a WHOLE!

So if he only costs you the minimum and comes back and even hits 15 hrs and drives in 60 runs..WHAT have you lost? It is still better than anything we have coming in CF this year

By Coach Smith

January 16, 2009 7:54 AM | Link to this

MAYBE…JUST MAYBE part of that was going to the post for the Braves EVERYDAY and playing injured while SOME players miss game after game after game wit TOE injuries, PINKY injuries, BUNYONS, Slipping in the shower, Warm up pec injuries

The guy went to work everyday which at least means something to me and it should to you other so called “fans” especially after last year

By Couch Tater

January 16, 2009 7:56 AM | Link to this

18 Wheels & dap01 I just read an article by Gene Wojciechowski about Sammy Sosa when I saw both of your posts. I couldn’t help but think those same two thoughts while reading it.

By Don Keeballz

January 16, 2009 7:56 AM | Link to this

Hey Andruw ITS AMAZING WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU COME OFF THE STEROIDS HUH

By Train Wreck Bystander

January 16, 2009 8:01 AM | Link to this

I believe AJ’s problems are rooted between his ears. If the mindset changed, the body would follow.

Leaving winter ball, ruling out minor-league contracts when he is clearly putting up minor-league stats… these are not the signs of a player who is turning it around.

Eventually, I believe he could come to his senses and still salvage a few reasonably good years.

BUT

I think the best thing for AJ right now would be for all of MLB to pass on him. Maybe a year of playing for no one will convince him that he needs to change.

It certainly lit a fire under Marcus Giles this off-season. Who is to say it wouldn’t give AJ the kick-in-the-pants he needs?

By Tim

January 16, 2009 8:04 AM | Link to this

DOB

I understand Francoeur had about as awful a year as possibly. I’m not excusing the strikeouts, lack of walks and all the double plays. To me there is no excuses for stuff like that.

What I want to know is why no one is talking about the awful hitting luck Francoeur had? It seemed for every ball Chipper hit that found a hole Francoeur had one that would find a fielder’s glove. He robbed more than his share of times. I remember listening to Jon and Joe talk about Mark Kotsay’s bad luck and he did have bad luck but no one every said anything about Francoeur’s flatout awful luck.

I just want to know why. Because I feel if the luck just evens out a little bit and Francoeur corrects a few things he can bounce back and help the Braves this year. Why no one thinks Francoeur can bounce back is beyond me. It was just 2007 that he posted a .293 batting average with 19 homeruns and 105 RBIs. I’m not saying he is going to hit .293 but I think he can get back to around .275. While not great it’s serviceable if he hits 20 something homeruns.

By JimD

January 16, 2009 8:18 AM | Link to this

18 wheels,

No we can’t slip him through again. He is no longer on the 40 man roster. Passing him through wavers the first time was for the purpose of removing him from the 40 man roster.

By 18 Wheels of Love

January 16, 2009 8:21 AM | Link to this

My belief is that Andruw has gotten by on his un-earthly talent, never having to take instruction from anyone. His natural talent alone allowed him to do what he did. All of sudden he has a few injuries that affect his timing and swing and it throws him off. Suddenly his natural talent is not enough to plow through pain and it alters his game. A player brought up on rigid instruction, like a Mccann, would bounce back from such a set back because they have the fundamentals to fall back on. Andruw does not have that luxury at this point, and as we have all seen and heard, Andruw does not take well to hitting coaches. He’s stubborn because his way has always worked and all he knows to get through a slump is to swing harder.

That’s what I think.

By 18 Wheels of Love

January 16, 2009 8:25 AM | Link to this

JimD: Thanks. Completely blanked on that one.

By fastasballs

January 16, 2009 8:26 AM | Link to this

It’s never really been rumored that Andruw used any PEDs to my knowledge. It’s not like he hit .260-.270 the past few seasons but without any power. He simply hasn’t been able to make solid contact with the ball for two years.

Even with PEDs you still have to have enough ability to actually hit the ball solid in order for good things to happen. The majority of players linked to them were not that good even when on them.

I think Andruw just became confortable & never put in the work to required to maintain his hitting abilties. Showing up to spring training for the Dodgers last season at 250-260 shows how little he actually cared.

The pounding he’s taken over the years hasn’t helped his body, but he should still be a fairly productive player regardless.

If he won’t accept a minor league deal then I’d take a pass on him. Until he proves himself he’s not worth the roster spot. The Braves 40 man is full & barring the Braves making a 2 for 1 trade I don’t suspect they would be willing to waive someone just make room for Andruw.

I really don’t see why he wouldn’t take a minor league deal. He’s guaranteed all of the money from the Dodgers so what does he have to lose? Even if a team signed him to a major league contract & he performs anything like last season he will be out of a job anyway. He’s going to have to have a good to great spring with someone or he won’t be playing for any team.

I’m not saying some team won’t offer a big league contract, but it’s going to be for the minimum or close to it. This is about his EGO, not the money. His best case scenario is sign a minor league contract with the Braves, play his butt off in the spring & sign an incentive laden contract for 2009. If he regains his form he’ll get someone to give him a multi year contract in 2010.

He’s a long shot at the minimum, but he’s not even going to get out of the gate unless he humbles himself by ackowledging he’s at rock bottom & needs help if he is even going to attempt to make it back.

By Efrim

January 16, 2009 8:27 AM | Link to this

Ken Rosenthal’s latest article:

“The Braves, at least for the moment, are pulling back in their search for a hitter.”

“Money is tighter following the team’s combined $83 million commitment to pitchers Derek Lowe and Kenshin Kawakami, and the club is content to wait for potential bargains to develop on the free-agent market.”

“A trade remains a possibility, but the Braves are unwilling to meet the Yankees’ price for outfielder Xavier Nady, knowing they might get better deals in July.”

“If they can hold off that long.”

“The outfielders on the Braves’ 40-man roster — Josh Anderson, Gregor Blanco and Matt Diaz; Jeff Francoeur, Brandon Jones and Greg Norton — are largely undistinguished. Jordan Schafer, a non-roster possibility, has only 297 at-bats above Class A.”

“The Braves’ preference is for a right-handed hitter, but they could settle for a left-handed bat. Their left-handed hitting regulars — Brian McCann, Kelly Johnson and Casey Kotchman — all hit lefties well.”

“Andruw Jones? The Dodgers released him Thursday, making him available at the minimum salary. However, the Braves are torn about whether to sign him, knowing his arrival might put manager Bobby Cox in a difficult position. Cox might feel obligated to play Jones out of loyalty, but Jones might not merit the opportunity.”

“Meanwhile, left-handed hitters such as Bobby Abreu, Garret Anderson and Adam Dunn are problematic for the Braves because of their respective prices and/or defensive inadequacies.”

By Lew

January 16, 2009 8:36 AM | Link to this

It was 26 below zero when got up this morning, so I would venture that the problem with Andruw is not Global Warming. Maybe his brain is frozen. The grin is certainly frozen on his face.

If anyone actually thinks we can get Andruw for the ML minimum, don’t hold your breath. There will be some team out there like the Nats that will give him a couple million. Count on it.

I wouldn’t mind giving him a shot, but if we do, I just don’t see us going out and really addressing our problem with another more certain player. I see Bobby plugging him into the cleanup spot and letting him play until the fans are ready to lynch someone.

By fastasballs

January 16, 2009 8:46 AM | Link to this

What I want to know is why no one is talking about the awful hitting luck Francoeur had? It seemed for every ball Chipper hit that found a hole Francoeur had one that would find a fielder’s glove. He robbed more than his share of times. I remember listening to Jon and Joe talk about Mark Kotsay’s bad luck and he did have bad luck but no one every said anything about Francoeur’s flatout awful luck.

Francoeur didn’t have bad luck, he put himself in a hole nearly every AB either by swinging at bad pitches or getting caught guessing. Every pitcher in the league knows how to pitch him & until he makes adjustments by becoming a more disciplined hitter he’s not going to improve.

Every hitter is robbed during a season. I’m sure he was as well at times, who isn’t over the course of a season. Chipper gets more bloops & dribblers to fall in because he doesn’t strike out much & keeps his hands back even when he’s fooled by a pitch. When Francoeur is fooled his hands have already committed & he can’t adjust to hit the ball.

The guy has proven he can put up good numbers in the past so I wouldn’t be surprised at all if he rebounds this season. By trying to increase his power numbers last season he really bulked his upper body up which ended up slowing his swing down. The extra bulk, as well as a bum ankle, slowed him down in the field as well.

I hope he gets it together this season for himself & the team. Another season like 2008 would probably be his last in a Braves uniform.

By crispy

January 16, 2009 8:48 AM | Link to this

Lew:

-5 here today. i think theres a better chance of you getting a suntan today than k-druw signing the league min. w/ anyone

By Lew

January 16, 2009 8:57 AM | Link to this

Crispy-Or more chance that the polar bears will be swimming this month instead of ice skating.

By Hardball19

January 16, 2009 8:57 AM | Link to this

Hey DOB Great tune! I love Neil, just got into him a little late as Harvest Moon is my favorite album by him and will forever have a place on my ipod. Not many better at story telling than he is. Now back to Andruw, I’ve said (repeatedly) that a cheap Andruw is a great risk, but his downside I guess more than the slider away…is his pride. Nady is a good option, even as a rental, since he can keep the spot warm for B.Jones, Anderson, Blanco, etc, etc.

By Tim

January 16, 2009 9:03 AM | Link to this

*By fastasballs

The guy has proven he can put up good numbers in the past so I wouldn’t be surprised at all if he rebounds this season. By trying to increase his power numbers last season he really bulked his upper body up which ended up slowing his swing down. The extra bulk, as well as a bum ankle, slowed him down in the field as well.

I hope he gets it together this season for himself & the team. Another season like 2008 would probably be his last in a Braves uniform.*

Yes that caused him problems too. It was noted that his ankle started feeling better later in the season and his defense improved and he had a good September at the plate. 286 AVG, 1 HR, 12 RBI with 8 doubles.

I don’t see why that won’t carry over into this spring. I guess I’m just upset at the Francoeur hate that he gets for having 1 bad year. People wanting to give up on him at the young age of 25. He didn’t have back-to-back 100 RBI seasons by accident.

By Amazing

January 16, 2009 9:04 AM | Link to this

Do you have all those lyrics memorized, or do you copy them from somewhere? If you’ve got them memorized, do you also have a freelance music writing gig? If not, you should.

By lewie

January 16, 2009 9:04 AM | Link to this

GET IN MY BELLY!

By NCBravesFan

January 16, 2009 9:08 AM | Link to this

In a world where the door closes on John Smoltz’s career in Atlanta, it’s time to let Andruw go for good. Whatever the issue, seems like the guy would have already turned it around with the bat if it was going to happen.

The guy gave us 10 great years and I really hope he turns it around. But I think if it does happen, it needs to happen somewhere else.

By Jeff R

January 16, 2009 9:13 AM | Link to this

I must be missing something, but can’t Blanco and Anderson patrol CF for ‘09? Either or both would be better than Andruw. As to Mr. Jones, I think he’s got a poor work ethic. He spent the better part of his career cruising on his significant talent. But players need craft as well as talent, especially as they age; Andruw never seemed to work much on his skill set. And as he got older, he’s always been out of shape (weight). Seems he’s waking up a tad too late to the fact that it takes effort to stay on the top of your game.

Management needs to move past him.

By Shaun

January 16, 2009 9:20 AM | Link to this

“If not, this is a story that will have a seemingly inexplicable ending, because I still haven’t heard any good explanation for how a guy could fall this far, this fast, at such a relatively young age, without a serious injury or illness.” DOB

Jones’s decline is certainly unique. But I’d bet we can find some similar situations throughout baseball history:

Dale Murphy is one example. Murph hit .295/.417/.580 at age 31 in 1987. The next season at 32 he dropped to .226/.313/.421. He never hit above .252, never posted an OBP above .318 and never slugged above .421 from age 32 until he retired at age 37.

I think a huge part of it is skill set—old players skills, if you will. Andruw’s only well-above-average offensive skill was power. He did just enough in the on-base department so that the Braves could justify keeping his power bat in a fairly high spot in the batting order. He never hit for all that high an average except for one season. He struck out a lot. When his bat speed dissipated, there went his only great skill.

Dale Murphy was similar in that he never hit for a high average except for a few seasons in his late 20s and a season in his early 30s. He never posted good on-base percentages until around those years. He struck out a lot, as well. And he didn’t draw an enormous amount of walks except during his peak seasons.

Some will point to Jim Thome as a player with old players skills, which may be true. Yes, Thome struck out a lot, hit for a lot of power and was never great defensively but I would argue power wasn’t his only well-above-average skill at the plate. Thome is different from Murphy and Jones in that he drew an enormous amount of walks as soon as he started playing full time, he hit for a .300+ average in a significant number of plate appearances as early as age 24 and he continues to post a high walk rate and respectable batting average into his mid-to-late 30s.

By Rolf

January 16, 2009 9:26 AM | Link to this

I’d like to see Druw get a chance. It’s not like we have a lot of proven OF’s at the moment. If his knee is healed, he’s in better shape, and he can recapture some of his defensive skills, why not offer a nominal contract? Maybe he felt too much pressure in his contract year and it just ate him up?

DOB - Since Lowe is signed, can you run his pitching stats against NYM and PHI for last year? Also did Vasquez have any interleague against those two teams? Lastly, who do you think improved more, the Bravos by actually getting starting pitching or the Mets by actually getting some back end pitchers?

By ppaddy123

January 16, 2009 9:28 AM | Link to this

Andruw has a mental problem. We all know it…..he doesn’t. Until he solves the DEMON inside his head……..he won’t be playing ball at ANY level. He needs to take the year off (hey he can afford it) He needs to deal with his inability to handle the mental aspect of failing as badly as he has and learn to move on. He won’t do that unless he’s ready.

By Tim

January 16, 2009 9:28 AM | Link to this

**By Jeff R

I must be missing something, but can’t Blanco and Anderson patrol CF for ‘09? Either or both would be better than Andruw. As to Mr. Jones, I think he’s got a poor work ethic. He spent the better part of his career cruising on his significant talent. But players need craft as well as talent, especially as they age; Andruw never seemed to work much on his skill set. And as he got older, he’s always been out of shape (weight). Seems he’s waking up a tad too late to the fact that it takes effort to stay on the top of your game.

Management needs to move past him.**

I agree. I would like to see Anderson play CF and bat leadoff. He will steal 40 or 50 bases easily. I mean he had 10 in the short time he was up last year. Also I believe Diaz and Blanco would be serviceable in LF. The Twins have shown over the years you don’t have to knock the ball over the wall a ton to win games. They win games with speed and we have the speed to finally win games like that. Our lineup 1 through 8 is the fastest lineup we have had since I would say the early to mid 90s.

By David O'Brien

January 16, 2009 9:31 AM | Link to this

Didn’t we slip Francisley Bueno through waivers to put Lowe on the 40 man roster? Couldn’t he slip through waivers again to accomodate Andruw a small MLB deal?18 Wheels of Love

Huh?

If he’s already through waivers and off the 40-man (which is correct), then what do you mean by slip through waivers again? I’m missing something.

By Shaun

January 16, 2009 9:34 AM | Link to this

“As to Mr. Jones, I think he’s got a poor work ethic. He spent the better part of his career cruising on his significant talent. But players need craft as well as talent, especially as they age; Andruw never seemed to work much on his skill set.”

Jeff R, I’m not sure how much a player can change his skill set. I’m sure he can to some degree but I would guess it is very difficult for a player to drastically change his skill set by doing more work than he already does just trying to maintain a big league career.

Again, Dale Murphy had a precipitous decline at an early age and no one questions his work ethic. That’s odd to me. Is it the way Andruw carried himself? Is it his tatoos and “bling”? Is it some other factor?

No one is denying Jones’s decline. But it seems somewhat unfair that fans in the city where a possibly Hall of Famer played most of his games would criticize him as much as they do in the ways that they do.

Yes, I said Hall of Famer. I truly believe if Andruw hangs it up right now, he’s had a HOF career. As I said yesterday, think Ron Gant or Reggie Sanders on offense with an Ozzie Smith-like impact on defense.

By David O'Brien

January 16, 2009 9:34 AM | Link to this

uga: After reading your 2:19 a.m. post, good you’re going to a place that only allows skiers, not ‘boarders. Wouldn’t want that sense of “logic” anywhere near ‘boarders.

By ruppert

January 16, 2009 9:40 AM | Link to this

The three pitchers of beer and the gallon of cheese dip for dinner every night at Rio Bravo in Buckhead did him in.

By N8

January 16, 2009 9:41 AM | Link to this

Lew

“It was 26 below zero when got up this morning, so I would venture that the problem with Andruw is not Global Warming.”

I feel your pain. Yesterday when I got up to get the kids to school it was 44 below zero.

On Sunday, it’s supposed to get UP to 38 degrees. Only in this lovely state, could ti be 38 degrees outside, and be 82 degrees HIGHER than it was 3 days before.

Anybody STILL wanna question my thought procces in wearing shorts when it gets in the 30’s in January around here? LOL!

By Paul Hamilton

January 16, 2009 9:47 AM | Link to this

The problem with bringing Andruw back is that if he makes the team, he automatically jumps to the top of the outfield pecking order. Bobby Cox is loyal to a fault with his players, probably one of the reasons his players love him so much. I will strangle myself if I have to watch Andruw butcher the batting order this year and swing at pitches above his head or in the dirt.

By Tim

January 16, 2009 9:47 AM | Link to this

Here is Derek Lowe’s career splits.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/playerSplits?categoryId=84956&seasonSelected=1&splitYearForm=Go

By shockley

January 16, 2009 9:48 AM | Link to this

DOB, sad day, Indie103 exists no longer on the radio. Hope it will remain on internet. Sad, sad…another one bites the dust.

By MEB

January 16, 2009 9:49 AM | Link to this

Great interview with Frank Wren this morning on XM Home Plate. Mostly rehash of what DOB has filled us in already. However, he did indicate that there are four and possibly five trade opportunities the Braves are exploring. He also confirmed that there is money available for to pursue them. When asked about Andruw he sounded didn’t sound very enthusiastic.

I came away from the interview agreeing with the approach that the Braves are taking this off-season. I don’t like seeing Smoltz in a Red Sox uniform but I’m not blaming Wren or the homeboy upstairs. I really like that the Braves are trying their very best to be competitive this year. This is an approach that should ease some of the pain for seeing Smoltz in the visitors dugout this year.

GO BRAVES!!!

By BrandonC

January 16, 2009 9:50 AM | Link to this

DOB

Have you heard anything about the payroll restrictions as far as LF now that we’ve signed Lowe and Kawakami? I’v learned that sometimes you have to take what Rosenthal says with a grain of salt.

By oldschoolfootball

January 16, 2009 9:51 AM | Link to this

the only way AJ may be successful again is that ‘The GOLD CLUB’ is reopened. when the da ‘CLUB’ was closed AJ went on immediate decline and got fat. balls begin to fall between he and the outfield wall when they were caught in the pass. let AJ got off and spend his free $21 million he beat out of the dodgers, and call it a career.

By Garry Lime

January 16, 2009 9:52 AM | Link to this

However, the Braves are torn about whether to sign him, knowing his arrival might put manager Bobby Cox in a difficult position. Cox might feel obligated to play Jones out of loyalty, but Jones might not merit the opportunity. — Ken Rosenthal

Proof positive that Bobby Cox would rather be popular with his players than win ballgames. Which was fine when the Braves had enough talent to compensate for this flaw, but not anymore. The inmates are running the asylum, folks.

By BrandonC

January 16, 2009 9:58 AM | Link to this

MEB

Glad to hear Frank Wren shoot down Rosenthals report about not having any money for the outfield. I got a little worried when I read that this morning. It’s good that he’s got several options to look at as far as trades go.

By getnathan

January 16, 2009 9:59 AM | Link to this

DO NOT bring back Andruw Jones!!!! Period. I’d rather have Nick Swisher

By Rufio

January 16, 2009 9:59 AM | Link to this

Clearly the problem lies in the fact that Andruws left leg become larger than his right. In fact, as the right leg became more and more inferior he found it increasingly more difficult to finish his swing with anykind of balance, often resulting in his collapse onto his right knee. Maybe he just needs more protein in his diet.

By Steve from OH

January 16, 2009 9:59 AM | Link to this

Lew, only -8 here in Ohio! The wind, on the other hand, makes it, well….

By Shaun

January 16, 2009 10:04 AM | Link to this

Tim, a lot of Lowe’s home games were at Fenway where he posted a 3.12 ERA. Pretty impressive.

By Gary82

January 16, 2009 10:05 AM | Link to this

the last thing the braves need to do is sign anyone based on sentimental/nostalgic reasons. at best i would offer andruw a minor league contract, and if he declines so be it. andruw’s play the past couple of years doesnt warrant anything greater.

the main focus now should be getting a decent hitter to play left field, whether that be via trade or signing.

our offense in the outfield last year was absolutely ghastly, and theres not really a reason to be optimistic in 2009. schafer is an unknown, and theres no guarantee he’ll be out in center in april. we cant really bank on jeff francoeur bouncing back or at least putting up average numbers for a right fielder. blanco or whomever they put in left wont really contribute enough.

a decent LFer gives a chance to compete next year. without one, it could be another long year. imo

By Couch Tater

January 16, 2009 10:07 AM | Link to this

I’m not telling someone how to earn there income…

Yesterday when I got up to get the kids to school it was 44 below zero.

I’m not telling anyone how to earn their income either. But…

By Balco Rep

January 16, 2009 10:12 AM | Link to this

We can put Andruw back on the juice again. That should do it….

PS: JS, your next shipment is on the way.

By crispy

January 16, 2009 10:12 AM | Link to this

anyone know if the lowe announcement will be televised live?

By dmack

January 16, 2009 10:14 AM | Link to this

Being told that your career is over unless you prove yourself may have a way of motivating Andruw in a way that we have not seen before.

By all accounts he is healthy. He has lost weight. He will come very cheap. He is a right handed power hitter.

Oh, and by the way, right now he would probably be the best defensive CF on the Braves roster.

Even if you have to place him on major league roster, this guy is worth taking a chance on. I will be disappointed if the Braves do not give Andruw a chance.

By Lew

January 16, 2009 10:16 AM | Link to this

Nathan-Yeah, people don’t realize that there’s cold and then there’s cold and then there’s Really F@#^%$&(&#ing Cold. People up here DO wear shorts when the temps rise those 60-80 degrees to 32. No receding glaciers or drowning polar bears up our way, that’s for sure. Thank God the Global warming’s keeping the temps up this high.

By blueridge

January 16, 2009 10:17 AM | Link to this

If Andruw is unwilling to accept a minor league deal, then he is unwilling to accept how every front office in baseball grades him right now, which means that he is unwilling to work as hard as it will take to be back on a major league roster.

He is an anomaly. He has always been an anomaly. It is unfortunate, but his career, I fear, is over. Enjoy the beach.

By Lew

January 16, 2009 10:17 AM | Link to this

Nathan-I appreciate that you can feel my pain. Can you feel your feet?

By LT-A blogger

January 16, 2009 10:18 AM | Link to this

With the Braves OF being as weak as it was/is (that’s an understatement), I don’t see how giving up a roster spot and 400K is not worth the risk.

As pathetic as AJs stats have been, the entire OF stats have been equally weak. The OF puts up this year what they did last and this team finishes 4th at best.

If they sign him, there should be stipulations added for weight and treadmill time. Wouldn’t be a bad idea to test him regularly to ensure he’s not taking bong hits on his off time.

By Jeff R

January 16, 2009 10:20 AM | Link to this

Shaun, the points you made earlier are valid. Let me clarify what I said: Andruw has a skill set, but he didn’t seem to really work very hard at honing those skills. And unlike Murph, Andruw has never seemed like a hard worker. Some may say that his talent made his effort look easy, but I disagree. Some athletes are satisfied to let their God-given talents take them as far as they will go; others, like a Michael Jordon or, yes, the outcast Pete Rose, had the talent but worked their tails off as well.

By brent a.

January 16, 2009 10:21 AM | Link to this

Saw where Glavine’s throwing 15 pitches today in front of Bobby & Wren.

Sorry if that was already communicated.

By Lew

January 16, 2009 10:22 AM | Link to this

Garry Lime-Or you could look at it like this-If you get him thinking he can make a comeback, how does he make that comeback sitting on the bench? If you pick him up (no matter the price) you have to let him play to see if it was a worthwhile signing. If you’re not going to give him a chance, then don’t sign him.

By CF is KEY

January 16, 2009 10:23 AM | Link to this

DOD - Can you give us the breakdown on the CF situation? Is Anderson out of options? Do Braves think Blanco/Anderson can play everyday? I would argue this is the biggest ? this team has. LF seems likely to be a platoon or a cheaper FA pickup. RF the Braves are forced to give Francoeur another shot. If Schafer has the same spring as last year do you think the Braves would still send him down?

By Bill

January 16, 2009 10:23 AM | Link to this

Andruw has several reasons he has gone downhill & he should start by looking in the mirror. 1. Get your butt in shape, he has no self discipline. 2.He acts like everything is a joke & doesnt take the game seriously(maybe thats why he smiles when he strikes out) 3. He doesnt take any advice or want any help from anyone. I say unless he gets in GREAT shape & comes in with a new attitude, HES DONE He needs to prove he wants to be the old Andruw or its over for him with the Braves or anywhere else. Wake up Andruw, youre getting millions to play a game, have some respect for yourself & the game & put forth your best effort or just retire & head back to the islands! GO BRAVOS

By Weldon

January 16, 2009 10:26 AM | Link to this

Andruw just has Steve Blass disease for hitters. Who knows, it might be known as Andruw Jones disease someday.

By Hardball19

January 16, 2009 10:28 AM | Link to this

Should I complain that it was 12 degrees this morning when I left for work? I mean, it is Atlanta afterall…!

By CF is KEY

January 16, 2009 10:28 AM | Link to this

DOD - Can you give us the breakdown on the CF situation? Is Anderson out of options? Do Braves think Blanco/Anderson can play everyday? I would argue this is the biggest ? this team has. LF seems likely to be a platoon or a cheaper FA pickup. RF the Braves are forced to give Francoeur another shot. If Schafer has the same spring as last year do you think the Braves would still send him down?

By ncscoots

January 16, 2009 10:29 AM | Link to this

Seems to me that the word “loyalty” has a definition akin to lava around here…always shifting. Braves weren’t “loyal” to Smoltz, Smoltz wasn’t “loyal” to the fans, Bobby would be too “loyal” to Andruw, blah blah blah. Loyalty seems to be a good thing only when it fits the poster’s definition, rather than as a generalized concept. It’s OK to pay, and be loyal to, Smoltz to not pitch, but not for Bobby to play, and be loyal to, a poorly performing Andruw? How does that compute?

For me, I’m not in favor of bringing the guy back (takes too much imagination to believe he can rekindle the magic after 300 games of abject failure), heck, I’d rather see Brandon Jones and Matt Diaz in LF, if it comes to that. But I haven’t forgotten the great years he put in for Atlanta, either.

By McFann O –[zzz]

January 16, 2009 10:32 AM | Link to this

Lew Nathan-I appreciate that you can feel my pain. Can you feel your feet?

LOL!

Hey, we’re feelin’ that global warming down here, too—14°! Not nearly as cold as what you guys have, but it’s freakin’ cold for our necka the woods, anyway.

Side note here—ignore: Italics?

By DAP

January 16, 2009 10:34 AM | Link to this

i dont see andruw getting back to his old form. i think he has fallen to far. if it had been a one season thing, then maybe, but he has been bad for awhile.

what i would do if i were wren…and this is probably what he will do…is wait. try to fill the LF need with the stuff he has on the table. about a week before spring training, offer andruw the minor league deal, if he hasnt already signed elsewhere. by then, andruw will either be desperate enough to take it, or he will want to sit 2009 out. the braves dont need andruw. andruw needs the braves.

By Marc L.

January 16, 2009 10:35 AM | Link to this

DOB,

You must have missed it. They were pretty below-the-radar, but Francisley Bueno has bounced back and forth between the Braves and Royals at least three times this offseason.

By Tim

January 16, 2009 10:36 AM | Link to this

By dmack

Oh, and by the way, right now he would probably be the best defensive CF on the Braves roster.

I totally disagree. Andruw Jones’ defense has slipped mighty the last 3 seasons. Right now Anderson and Blanco are better defensive players than Andruw.

By TheDunderChief

January 16, 2009 10:37 AM | Link to this

“En 30 turnos en Dominicana, Jones impulsó una carrera y se ponchó 12 veces.”

Please tell me this doesn’t mean 12 strikeouts in 30 at bats in winter ball!

This was from a story about Andruw, but I barely speak spanish. The article also said he hit .143 (I think). Has anyone found an english versions of his stats playing in the dominican?

By Lew

January 16, 2009 10:41 AM | Link to this

dmack-I take it you’ve never seen Jordan Shafer play center field? Believe me-at this point in time, we have three potential starters for center field that are better defensively than Andruw. At least two of them have better arms, too. All three are definitely faster than AJ, too.

By Tim

January 16, 2009 10:43 AM | Link to this

By Marc L.

DOB,

You must have missed it. They were pretty below-the-radar, but Francisley Bueno has bounced back and forth between the Braves and Royals at least three times this offseason.

Wrong. Bueno has been on the Braves roster the whole winter. The player you are thinking of that has been back and forth between the Braves and Royals is Jairo Cuevas

By Steve from OH

January 16, 2009 10:44 AM | Link to this

Tim:

I would say that Jordan Schafer is the best defensive center fielder that’s an option to us right now.

By Garry Lime

January 16, 2009 10:44 AM | Link to this

No argument there, Lew. But it reads to me like Rosenthal’s saying the Braves’ front office might be inclined to roll the dice on Andruw, except they’re deathly afraid of giving Cox enough rope to hang his team — that he’ll continue to run Andruw out there long after common sense and Andruw’s (likely) abysmal performance dictate that he shouldn’t. Cox certainly has made that mistake before, and with several washouts other than Andruw Jones.

By Lew

January 16, 2009 10:47 AM | Link to this

McFann-yes, 14 in Hotlanta (a misnomer at this time) is pretty darned cold. Aren’t you glad you’re Home Schooled today?

By AustinBraves

January 16, 2009 10:49 AM | Link to this

Has there ever been a ball player that decressed in production as much as Andrew? I don’t think so. Do you ever forget how to ride a bike? I don’t think so. The guy knows how to play ball! Just give him a chance. Come back player of the year!!!

By Slugger

January 16, 2009 10:49 AM | Link to this

100% Bring Back Andruw

Offer Andruw a roster spot and bring him back. The potential upside is great, especially since he is a lot thinner now.

Armchair “analysts,” a guy gives you 10 years of success (albeit a low batting average), tracks down fly balls (he could teach our two prospects at the same position the things that made him successful), drives runs in/hits HRs, but you’re not willing to take him back because he had his worst year with another team?

Everyone should listen to the interview with Leiter, Reynolds and Larkin. There you have a pitcher that pitched against Andruw for a long time, a former MVP winner and another former player all understanding what happened to Andruw. All make the case that he will rebound in some shape or form, and none compare him to the likes of a ‘Raul Mondesi’ when we signed Raul.

Listen to former players, especially guys the caliber of Leiter, Larkin and Reynolds when you’re deciding whether or not it’s a good move to bring back Andruw.

He’s 32! I guess if you all aren’t willing to pay 1-3 Mil for someone to hit between .250 and .260, 20 HRs and 80-95 RBI.

Jason Giambi produced numbers similar to these last year and will probably hit 5-10 more homeruns than Andruw this year. Giambi was signed by Billy Beane because Beane saw it as a worthy investment. Add Andruw’s ability (although some will say diminished, I think it will return) to play in the outfield, and you can begin to view the Giambi signing as a current market value (or general idea) of Andruw’s worth.

How can anyone all themselves a Braves fan and hate Andruw Jones OR not think he’s worth a spot on a Major League roster? If anything, Andruw did you a favor because another team was forced to foot the bill during his off year while he returns with a reduced market-value and a healthy knee.

Now if we saw the video of AJ hitting with Chipper and McCann and he looked HUGE (like last spring with LA), then maybe he’d lost the drive to play.

Last point… watch the interview on Fox-5 and how excited McCann’s face is at the thought of AJ returning to ATL. Obviously McCann hit with AJ that day…McCann wasn’t trying to be PC or give general statements to the press (maybe he would have if AJ sucked in the cage), but he looked excited.

To conclude, it might be best to listen to current/former MLB players instead of pessimistic AJC.com bloggers. I know you all read a lot of stats and watch a lot of games, but until you’ve played the game for a long time there are things and sides of baseball you will never know.

If anyone else has a question on whether or not the Braves should bring back Andruw Jones, see the Fox5 Atlanta interview about the possible comeback or watch the two Hot Stove reports on MLB.com about Andruw.

By pat

January 16, 2009 10:51 AM | Link to this

No thanks, he is too fat, too lazy, too arrogant and too stuborn. I wouldn’t sign him as a ball boy. Torre is no dummy. If he thinks Andruw is washed up, he’s done. Let’s get some young talent with good work ethic in the out field…I don’t care to see Andruw schlepping around on the cetner field grass.

By Shaun

January 16, 2009 10:52 AM | Link to this

“Shaun, the points you made earlier are valid. Let me clarify what I said: Andruw has a skill set, but he didn’t seem to really work very hard at honing those skills. And unlike Murph, Andruw has never seemed like a hard worker. Some may say that his talent made his effort look easy, but I disagree. Some athletes are satisfied to let their God-given talents take them as far as they will go; others, like a Michael Jordon or, yes, the outcast Pete Rose, had the talent but worked their tails off as well.”

Jeff R, isn’t that a lot of assuming? “…he didn’t seem to really work very hard”…”Andruw has never seemed like a hard worker.”

Bill, I certainly agree that Andruw may be done. But your post at 10:23 also seems like a lot of speculation. You don’t really provide much as far as where you get these notions that he has “no self discipline” or “doesn’t take the game serious” or doesn’t take advice.

It’s strange that the way someone looks or carries himself has so much power. Odd that no one would dream of criticizing someone like Dale Murphy yet they seem to love criticizing Andruw, though their career paths are fairly similar. In fact, I would venture to say Andruw gets more HOF support than Murph.

By Lew

January 16, 2009 10:52 AM | Link to this

Marc L-Both teams needed someone to pitch those split squad games this March during Spring Training? Bueno’s a valuable commodity in those scenarios. I saw him pitch against UGA last Spring, so I know he has the requisite experience.

Garry Lime-I’m betting they offer him nothing substantial. If they let Smoltz walk (and I’m betting they let Glavine walk, too), they won’t waste their time and energy (not to mention money) on Druw.

As for low balling him with a minor league deal, I’m betting some team offers him a multi million $ Major League deal (low multi, that is) and it won’t be the Braves.

By Coach Smith

January 16, 2009 10:52 AM | Link to this

Jeff R You said “Andruw has a poor work ethic and we all know it”

EXCUSE ME?

Exactly how many games did Andruw miss in his whole career here? He was never on the DL…he went to work every day, nobody can question that

Tim you said Andruw’s d-fense has slipped the pst 3 year and Blanoc and Anderson are better”

I guess you missed the fact that he only had 3 errors n the last 3 years and won 2 Gold Gloves

In addition, Blanco had more than that last year alone, took many bad routes to balls, and doesn’t hit for much more of an average than ANDRUW and has no power

You can’t compare BLANCO, ANDERSON, and SCHAFER to ANDRUW JONES…a guy with Hall of fame numbers by age 30….they aren’t in the same breath sir

By Chuck James was Solid until the 6th!!!

January 16, 2009 10:54 AM | Link to this

DOB

Hate to be “That Guy” asking the same question again…BUT, have you spoke with Ohman over the last day or few and when are we expecting a decision from him? Did they even propose an offer to him yet? I think after getting Ohman and that LF bat ATL is set for a strong run in ‘09.

I’ll take Andruw for 400K too. After seeing that BP video with Chip n Mac its obvious he has slim down and can win another Gold Glove in Center.

DOB, maybe we can attest Andruw’s vicious decline to the fact that he was injured last year and had the surgery. Maybe he was putting the surgery off for 2 years or maybe it just wasn’t bad enough in 06 & 07 to get the surgery done but finally things just got too bad…Because Andruw was a stud, this does not happen to 31 year olds…

Thanks as always man.

By Coach Smith

January 16, 2009 10:54 AM | Link to this

by the way..TERRY McQUIRK was on 680the fan this morning and he said

“I can see it, I think the Braves and Andruw Jones could be a great coupling there”

He will be back haters…get over it

By Lew

January 16, 2009 10:55 AM | Link to this

AustinBrave-Don’t know if there was a player that dropped off as much as Andrew, but I bet Andruw probably fits the bill. Don’t we have enough Come Back Player candidates already with Diaz and Francoeur?

By ppaddy123

January 16, 2009 10:56 AM | Link to this

By Bill January 16, 2009 10:23 AM Andruw has several reasons he has gone downhill & he should start by looking in the mirror. 1. Get your butt in shape, he has no self discipline. 2.He acts like everything is a joke & doesnt take the game seriously(maybe thats why he smiles when he strikes out) 3. He doesnt take any advice or want any help from anyone. I say unless he gets in GREAT shape & comes in with a new attitude, HES DONE He needs to prove he wants to be the old Andruw or its over for him with the Braves or anywhere else. Wake up Andruw, youre getting millions to play a game, have some respect for yourself & the game & put forth your best effort or just retire & head back to the islands! GO BRAVOS

I agree and disagree with you. I think Andruw has a certain amount of “mental immaturity” he’s dealing with. He has never had to deal with failing until now and he doesn’t know how to deal with it. I listened to Kevin Kennedy on XM talk about the mental grind of a full season. Every plate appearance has a different pressure level………2 strikes being much more stressful than no strikes. I don’t think he has an outlet (stress relief) to deal with this. He wasn’t in the minors long before being with the Braves (age 19). He came up and became a part of a very “professional” club when he was still just a kid. I think he “figured ” the best way to fit in was to be as emotionless as some of his team mates (like Glavine) I think that’s why he smiles when he strikes out. He’s been mimicking what he experienced as a kid. I don’t think he’s happy when he strikes out. I think he’s p**………he’s just never learned to deal with it.

By cvbraves

January 16, 2009 10:56 AM | Link to this

Lowe live!

http://media.myfoxatlanta.com/live/index2.html

By Cameron in NC

January 16, 2009 10:57 AM | Link to this

Im watching the baseball channel on TV and its got them introducing Derek Lowe, and Lowe is a really cool dude. Very funny. I think he will be a great addition to the team and clubhouse.

By Tim

January 16, 2009 10:58 AM | Link to this

Tim:

I would say that Jordan Schafer is the best defensive center fielder that’s an option to us right now.

I have never seen Schafer play so I can’t comment on you. I can tell you I have read the same thing you are saying.

By Can I be Frank

January 16, 2009 11:00 AM | Link to this

Braves ink Diaz to a one year deal… He has a higher career BA (.309) than all the “potential” replacements. His down year in ‘08 BA .244 is equal to Swisher career BA. I vote stick with what we got until someone considerable better and complete capable becomes available, even if that’s June or July

By rammerjammer

January 16, 2009 11:01 AM | Link to this

The Dodgers are paying Andruw to go away. DO YOU AJ FANS UNDERSTAND THAT??? They need a power bat in the outfield, and yet they paid Andruw to GO AWAY.

It’s not like the Dodgers haven’t been here before. They’ve made some awful big-money decisions…Schmidt, Pierre come to mind…but they kept them around to try and salvage SOMETHING.

But Andruw…they saw no chance, no hope, no possibility of anything good. Understand, even if he was perfectly healthy, they did not want him around anymore. Do you grasp the enormity of that?

It’s not just the diminished skills. It’s the commitment, the attitude…the total waste of a position on the roster. That Juan Pierre is of more value to them is all you need to remember.

By McFann O –[zzz]

January 16, 2009 11:01 AM | Link to this

Lew—

Misnomer is right…Ha, I think we’ll be seein’ a lot of Beggar Ben during this weather!

“Aren’t you glad you’re Home Schooled today?”

And how!

By Original Jon

January 16, 2009 11:01 AM | Link to this

It appears that Derek is going to wear number 32 and not number 23

By brian

January 16, 2009 11:01 AM | Link to this

I am but a mere blogger but it seems with all the difficulty finding a true improvement in LF that is inexpensive and will not block our upcoming youth movement, we should look inside the organization for the replacement.

It would take a change in philosophy from Bobby Cox but playing Anderson in LF would give us a solid defensive OF as well as a leadoff hitter. Anderson’s play last year in the minors and after the late season call up warrants consideration. With Schafer in CF and Blanco/Diaz in reserve that is our best opportunity. Will we be lacking power - yes. Will we be adding speed - yes. A lineup of Anderson, Escobar, Chipper, BMac, Kotchman, KJ, Frenchy, and Schafer while not awe inspiring still will have the chance to score and manufacture runs. If Frenchy has a bounce back then power may not be as scare as feared.

The only other internal option is moving KJ to left field and inserting Prado/Infante at second base. My question here is who will be the leadoff man. I would be surprised if they stuck Schafer in the leadoff role as a rookie. Escobar and KJ did not excel in the leadoff role last year.

By McPoyle

January 16, 2009 11:03 AM | Link to this

in certain ways, i hope the braves do sign andruw, i mean, there’s not a whole lot to lose here. maybe the guy will finally get it that this is his LAST chance.
i just hope it doesn’t turn into the second coming of Raul Mondesi!!! What a joke!

By Lew

January 16, 2009 11:03 AM | Link to this

It’s really absurd at this late date to think Andruw is anywhere near the same defensive player he was some years ago. He is much slower (was not getting to many bals hit over his head when last with the Braves) and his arm is not strong.

Jordan Shafer (I’ve seen him play) is almost as good defensively as when Andruw was in his prime. He is faster than Andruw has been for some years, can come in on the ball much better than Druw has for years and can play deeper than Druw as a result, which keeps balls from going over his head (saw him come in from dead center field up against the wall and shoestring a ball hit behind 2B). His arm is vastly superior. Same goes for both Blanco and Anderson, too. Time to face facts-Except for the weight thing, Andruw is a mere shadow of himself right now-defensively, too.

Shaun-now would be a great time for you to instruct us in Range Factor for Andruw. I’m betting it’s all decreased significantly in recent years. And you thought I had no love for stats.

By BrandonC

January 16, 2009 11:04 AM | Link to this

That’s one thing people forget about Schafer, he’s HIGHLY regarded for his defense. Yeah, he could use some help hitting against left handed pitching, but he’ll get there. I’m still of the belief that he’s the future in CF.

By BrandonC

January 16, 2009 11:06 AM | Link to this

Lowe seems like a guy you could go have a beer with. He’ll be a great addition to this team because he keeps it light-hearted and loves to joke around. Him and Frenchy are going to get along good.

By Ricardo

January 16, 2009 11:08 AM | Link to this

Slugger -

With all due respect, what you are saying is nonsense. If the Dodgers thought he was capable of 250-260 with 25 hr and 90 rbis they wouldn’t have given up on him. Further, if some other team thought he was capable of that, they would have traded for him once L.A. redid his contract to the $5 mil # that has been reported. Fact is, while he is only 31, (if that’s even true) he has a ton of mileage on him. To compare him to Giambi isn’t a fair to either player. Giambi has always been a better, more selective hitter (I’m not touching the ‘roids arguement, however). If the Braves bring him back, that’s fine but don’t expect the kind of numbers you’ve mentioned above because that isn’t going to happen.
BTW, what is McCann going to say about Andruw (or any other player, for that matter)? They aren’t going to be honest and say “I think he’s a fat@#** and we shouldn’t sign him.” That’s just not how it works.

By Richie

January 16, 2009 11:08 AM | Link to this

Why can’t we take someone off the 40 man roster, to accomodate Andruw? It is not a guarantee the person we put on waivers, will be picked up. Look at Scott Thorman last year. The Braves were afraid to put him on waivers, to go to Triple A. He got thru with no problem because the Braves over-estimated his value. So, it is possible for us to place someone on waivers for him to be on this team.

By NCBravesFan

January 16, 2009 11:09 AM | Link to this

Slugger

Armchair “analysts,” a guy gives you 10 years of success (albeit a low batting average), tracks down fly balls (he could teach our two prospects at the same position the things that made him successful), drives runs in/hits HRs, but you’re not willing to take him back because he had his worst year with another team?

No, I don’t want to take Andruw back because he hasn’t hit much at all in 2 1/2 seasons … all the while playing for two very player-friendly managers in Torre and Cox.

By Lew

January 16, 2009 11:09 AM | Link to this

Coach Smith-It’s not a matter of US getting over him, it’s a matter of can the Braves’ get over him?

As to him committing only 3 errors. First of all, he missed most of last season and second, the number of errors do not take into account howe many balls got by him to the gaps or were hit over his head because he doesn’t have the spped to go back on balls since he plays so shallow. Sorry you can’t see beyond his performances earlier in his career. Surprising that you can’t see that he is no longer that player.

As for McGuirk-he was shocked at Smoltz leaving. Are you sure he even has any say in who is signed?

By dmack

January 16, 2009 11:09 AM | Link to this

Tim:

Jordan Schafer is not on the Braves 40 man roster. For good reason too. I hope that the Braves avoid bringing any of these studs to the show too early. This starts their free agency clock.

I would be shocked if Tommy Hanson is with the Braves when they leave Dark Star. If they bring him up in June, his FA clock is delayed by a full year.

The secret to building a good young team is trying to introduce your stud prospects at the same time. If they are staggered, the team does not have as many years with everyone in place. I imagine that the Braves want to keep everyone in the minors until they are sure that they are ready. The longer you wait, the more the prospect has time to fully mature.

For instance, look at what the Reds have done. They have Volquez, Cueto, Homer Bailey, Jay Bruce, and Joey Votto all arriving at the same time. Their rotation is going to be VERY good for years to come.

By Saltywoody

January 16, 2009 11:17 AM | Link to this

After reading your 2:19 a.m. post, good you’re going to a place that only allows skiers, not ‘boarders. Wouldn’t want that sense of “logic” anywhere near ‘boarders. DOB

Hmmmm. I’ve gotta chime in on this one.

If you’re a good snowboarder and one who pays attention when he’s on the slopes, then awesome. You rule.

But if you’re a bad snowboarder…aka one who plops his or herself down right in the middle of a trail merge to smoke a cigarettte or admire their own camoflauge beanie and then gets up and edges all the way down the mountain, pushing all the snow off the trails, I see UGA’s point.

I ski at Mad River Glen in VT on occasion and it’s a skier’s only mountain. And it is amazing to me to see how much more smoothly the skiing traffic flows and how much longer the snow lasts on the trails without snowboarders allowed on.

“Logic” would actually dictate, just in the way skiiers and snowboarders, respectively, approach making turns that skiing is actually much better for the snow quality and doesn’t track out the mountain nearly as fast.

I’m not gonna be the one who says “all snowboarders are punks,” cuz it’s not true. Some of my best friends ride and show me lines I never would have seen otherwise, and are very respectful and aware on the mountain. But there’s no denying that a good portion of the snowboarding demographic is filled with pubescent teens with attitude problems that tend to be pretty oblivious on the hill.

Just saying…

By DCbrave

January 16, 2009 11:19 AM | Link to this

If I were the Braves, I would only sign Andruw to a minor league contract. Becasue enough has shown long enough the risk of lossing anybody on the current roster is not worth it.

If I were Andruw, I would go nowhere but Atlanta at whatever contract to try one more time to resurrect. Because I knew if there ever were a place where I would resurrect, it would be Atlanta. After all, I hit 33.33% of my homers at the Ted last year.

By BDubs

January 16, 2009 11:27 AM | Link to this

I believe.

By Random

January 16, 2009 11:28 AM | Link to this

Wayne in Utah: “hey, I look pretty good in the cage, and I am 53.”*

La cage aux folles?

mr baseball: “But I would appreciate it if someone could explain to me how his low OBP is a more accurate assessment of his value in ‘06 and ‘07 (not to mention his second half in ‘05) than 100+ RBI and a .300+ average w/RISP… No one has come up with an intelligent explanation yet. Still waiting. Any takers?”

Lemme take this one, BFIR, u-b.

Except for Andruw, Francoeur had more PAs with runners on base in 2007 than any other Brave, and more runners on base in those situations than any other Brave. His BABIP of .342, similar to his first season’s, and above expectations generated by a line-drive rate of 19.4 percent, demonstrates that he simply got lucky in 2007.

Francoeur ’s been on a hitting decline since 2005. It’s that simple.

So sure, he was better in 2007 than in 2008 — that’s not saying much; and sure, he was better in 2007 than Andruw was — that’s not saying much either.

Plus, “low OBP” is far, far from the only stat that shows Francoeur’s ongoing hitting decline. That is just a straw man you yourself keep setting up and knocking down.

Do not gloss over the fact that his isolated power (ISO, or SLG minus AVG) has steadily decreased year after year after year (2005 — 2008: .249, .189, .151, .120).

Francoeur is entering the fourth year of a continuous hitting decline, esp SLG and ISO. His only numbers that have fluctuated up and down are his BABIP (and thus AVG & OBP) and RBIs — and the first is highly dependent on luck, and the second is highly dependent on context.

You know, mr baseball (aka Georgia Grad 74), you really ought to go back and re-read the pertinent comments from the 30 Dec blog Let’s reflect on recent Braves — or would you prefer to continue ignoring all those responses?

Now, was that “intelligent” enough for you?

PS: All that having been said, Francoeur did end last season with 28 hits (8 doubles) in 98 ABs, good for .286/.333/.416. I believe that most here would consider that that would be a fair 2009 start for him, particularly when compared to his 2008 season totals (.239/.294/.359), or even his career numbers (.268/.312/.434).

By Jeff R

January 16, 2009 11:28 AM | Link to this

Shaun, Coach Smith:

What I recall is that over the years Andruw seemed to dog-it in the outfield on occasion. Yes, he’s a gold glover, and yes, he earned those gloves. But he had lapses from time to time.

What I know - and I won’t be tactful here - Andruw got fatter as the years progressed. Hardly what you’d expect from an athlete who knows his body is his tool and he needs to keep it in shape for max performance.

What I saw was a batter whose performance at the plate got worse in the last years, especially. How much time did he spend working on his hitting? If he spent the time, he didn’t do much to apply the lessons in games.

Hey, I’ll take Andruw, warts and all, 2006 back. But the chances are very, very good that he’s washed up. If he couldn’t perform well for the sort of contract the Dodgers gave him, when will he perform?

By cardvol

January 16, 2009 11:30 AM | Link to this

Diaz wears No. 23, so I guess Lowe will go to Hampton’s old number 32.

By Coach Smith

January 16, 2009 11:31 AM | Link to this

LEW

I am sorry but to say that there were a bucnh of balls that got by Andruw in the gaps because he was slow is RIDICULOUS

sorry buddy but I watched plenty of games last year were I saw our centerfielders butcher balls that Andruw would’ve glided to

I think that is what many of you miss…he was never really fast…he has such great instincts off the crack of the bat that he runs to a spot and waits on the ball….sometimes that made him look like he was loafing….

was he? NO!!!!!!! he was simply able to get to spots and make cathces look easy that others have to make full out running or diving catches to get to

By brent a.

January 16, 2009 11:34 AM | Link to this

Important thing to note with Dale Murphy is that his decline really seemed to begin in 1986.

Then, in 1987, the ball was juiced and EVERYONE became a power hitter.

Murphy himself hit 44 home runs in 1987. Amazing for a guy whose previous high had been 37, and didn’t really look all that good in hitting 29 home runs in 1986.

I think when you look at Murph’s drop-off, you’ve really gotta look at the decline between 1985 and 1986, and then pick it back up at 1988.

1987 was an anomaly.

By Richie

January 16, 2009 11:35 AM | Link to this

**By Can I be Frank

Braves ink Diaz to a one year deal… He has a higher career BA (.309) than all the “potential” replacements. His down year in ‘08 BA .244 is equal to Swisher career BA. I vote stick with what we got until someone considerable better and complete capable becomes available, even if that’s June or July**

Diaz isnt an everyday player. We gave him that shot last year, and we saw the results. I know he got injured but he had plenty of AB’s to turn it around and show us he can make adjustments at the plate. He looked as bad as Andruw has with no pop in his bat. Blanco has no pop and Anderson is likely the leadoff guy unless Schafer has a super spring( which I dont think will happen, don’t think the Braves want to rush him up here, either)For that alone, we should consider him. Everyone is right to doubt him, he’s given plenty of reasons to doubt but at 31 turning 32, I am more on the belief side that he would turn it around. This isn’t like Glavine coming back last year, he is 10 years younger so there still is a lot power left in that bat.

By crispy

January 16, 2009 11:38 AM | Link to this

DCBrave:

I think someone grooved that pitch last year because Braves pitchers know better than to throw him something on the inner 2/3 of the plate.

BTW who threw that ball and was the game won or lost at that point?

By Daniel

January 16, 2009 11:40 AM | Link to this

DOB

Do you have any idea what the Yanks are looking for to get Nady? One of our outfield prospects and a draft pick? By the way Dirty on Purpose sound like Yo La Tengo. Also I would highly reccomend Peter Broderick’s Home and Animal Collective’s Merriweather Post Pavillion

By BravesFanInRockies

January 16, 2009 11:41 AM | Link to this

N8 (3:14)

Nice.

Shaun (9:20)

Ditto.

Coach Smith,

This has nothing to do with “hating” Andruw. The Dodgers are essentially paying Andruw to leave town. Do you think they “hate” him? (Well, they’re not crazy about his ability to hit a baseball, but hatred shouldn’t enter the equation.)

Why did 29 other teams pass on the opportunity to get him in a trade when they would have had to give up next to nothing, other than agree to pay a mere $5 million of his $22 million contract? Hatred? I don’t think so.

Besides, arguing that we would get the same sort of production from Andruw we would from Francoeur is no reason to sign the guy. Frenchy was awful. We don’t need awful-times-two.

By Slugger

January 16, 2009 11:41 AM | Link to this

LA Had to get rid of AJ -

Ricardo -

LA had to get rid of AJ becauase of the pressure fro the public and the media. LA and New York are completely different markets where moves absolutely have to be made, at times, due to the overwhelming impact of the local media and fans.

LA is completely ridiculous for letting him go, and it wasn’t 100% because they never think he’ll rebound. They CAN”T take the chance that he will nto rebound, or they will face riots from their fans (especially if they do not sign Manny). Atlanta CAN take the chance that he will rebound.

Of course McCann wouldn’t say anything negative (that’s what I meant about being PC), but his excitement wouldn’t show as obviously if he didn’t feel AJ would help the team. Brian was noticably “Chipper” about the topic he was asked about, and I don’t think it was the new diet he’s taken on this offseason.

NCBravesfan - That’s a justified argument if you have to pay a guy a ton of money to find out he can’t hit anymore, but we’re not talking about a ton of money. We’re talking about a guy who could rebound to hit around 20 HR with 90 RBI and hit .250… all for a minimal investment.

Regarding Andruw’s defense - He’s averaged a little over 2 errors per year over the last eight years (22 total, in eight years).

Won’t the most negative critics even agree that his defense will be acceptable in LF, at least?

I think you sign him to an MLB contract and put incentives for him for Stolen Bases and On base percentage. If not incentives, at least make those two categories accelerators. Remove pressure from AJ to hit homeruns because once he does not try to hit homeruns, he will hit them quite frequently.

By DCbrave

January 16, 2009 11:47 AM | Link to this

DCBrave:I think someone grooved that pitch last year because Braves pitchers know better than to throw him something on the inner 2/3 of the plate. BTW who threw that ball and was the game won or lost at that point? -crispy

I only remember it was none other than thre great Chuck who threw the pitch. Dont remember who won the game though.

By ssiscribe

January 16, 2009 11:53 AM | Link to this

BTW who threw that ball and was the game won or lost at that point?

Top of the second, scoreless game. AJ’s homer came off no other than Chuck “If I ain’t giving up a tater, I ain’t breathin’” James.

Braves won the game 4-1, middle game of a three-game sweep at Turner Field in mid April.

By the way, AJ also walked twice in that game … probably was his best offensive game all season!

The Scribe abides.

—30—

By DCbrave

January 16, 2009 11:53 AM | Link to this

Diaz wears No. 23, so I guess Lowe will go to Hampton’s old number 32. -cardvol

I’m with the Redskins here in DC and what the players did here is that some new comers would spend a sizable amount of money to buy a number from another current player. So, maybe Diaz could get a small fortune by selling his 23 to Lowe.

By ex-Smoltzie fan

January 16, 2009 11:53 AM | Link to this

Please, No Andruw. Let him continue to be someone else’s problem. He’ll just drag the team down with the constant negative attention he’ll receive.

Wren had the guts to send Smoltz on, so I doubt he’ll bring Andruw back out of misguided sympathy.

By im4ball

January 16, 2009 11:57 AM | Link to this

Random: excellant post.

you are right in your assesment of Francoeur:

” Except for Andruw, Francoeur had more PAs with runners on base in 2007 than any other Brave, and more runners on base in those situations than any other Brave. His BABIP of .342, similar to his first season’s, and above expectations generated by a line-drive rate of 19.4 percent, demonstrates that he simply got lucky in 2007.”

The upside with Francoeur is that I believe he is humble enough to recognize his failings and TRY to correct them. He is also a good athlete. While I am not 100% sold on him, and in fact was all in favor of trading him, I believe that Jeff should be and will be given a chance to prove himself. As much for the fact that he has potential as with the fact that he is cheap.

I think that Andruw is the complete opposite and I do not think the Braves should consider signing him at all.

By Doctor Henry

January 16, 2009 12:05 PM | Link to this

Something tells me that Andruw is thru - He doesn’t seem to have the makeup to pull himself back like Hamilton of the Rangers for instance - missed yrs for drug problems and should have been mvp this past yr….Andruw had so much talent and success early that he appears not to care anymore….Its a shame because he had only 1 really bad yr…

By CovBravesfan

January 16, 2009 12:06 PM | Link to this

Based on Rosenthal’s comment about the Braves holding back on spending a bunch for a left fielder(which I don’t entirely believe), what about this potential move.

What about platooning Diaz and Anderson in left since Diaz bats right and Anderson left and giving Andruw a chance to win the job in center in Spring Training? If Andruw totally bombs you still have Schafer or the Braves could find another bat in Spring Training or even later on in the year. The Yankees have said they are unlikely to trade Nady or Swisher until Spring Training anyway. I know the idea potentially lacks getting another proven bat, but it MIGHT(keyword) be a decent option.

Thoughts?

By crispy

January 16, 2009 12:06 PM | Link to this

ssiscribe & DCBrave:

Thanks. I guess that would explain it. I cant imagine Druw was being pitched around. What could caused him to not swing?

Bobby Cox: “Hey guys, here’s the deal. Throw everything away from andruw and see if he swings. He already hit a homer so lets put him on base and see how he runs. I don’t think he will be a Dodger next year and will want to come back.”

By TexasBrave

January 16, 2009 12:09 PM | Link to this

ncscoots 10:29 - I too would be afraid if AJ were given a roster spot and made the team out of spring training. Bobby would put him in the line up out of “loyality”. However, one thing that does make me worry less is Wren. We have already seen how cautious he can be with Smoltz, I would think he would be even more so with AJ. I know Bobby has some input on who is on the team out of ST but ultimately the decision is Wren’s and he is going to do what he thinks is best for the team, not that I always agree with him.

As a Braves fan I would love to see AJ given a chance, but only as a minor league contract invite to spring training. We did it last year with Javy we should do it again with AJ.

By dogsbrekky

January 16, 2009 12:10 PM | Link to this

NC Braves Fan

The problem with Andruw (reading between the lines from LA) is that there is something HORRIFICLY wrong there.

I have heard he suffers from depression (which may explain the bizarre interview on 790 yesterday)

I have a strong gut feeling that he cannot SEE THE BALL well anymore and the damage he did to his elbow (I think in mid 2006 he hyperextended it) has ruined him. I know myself from being a star in mid high school to suddenly not being able to even hit anything that THAT TALENT never returns..

1 thing we are not mentioning (and I suspect this with many former and current MLB stars whose performance has fallen off a cliff) is THAT ROIDS may have been involved….. Steroids improve hand-eye coordination more than even their muscle building and body recuperative powers..

so lets look at Andruw and another pre 2007 star (Pudge Rodriguez) and there problems post the steroid era

1. Neither can hit even basic moving picthes anymore

2. Neither has opposite field power at all anymore

3. Both production numbers have gone from Everest to New Orleans post 2007

4. Both bodies appear to suddenly be those of a mid 40s man

5. Neither seems to recover from injury

ALL effects would have been MASKED by steroids…

Another Andruw fact, his winter ball team got him away from them for some bizarre unknown reason…. wtf he has a big problem which no-one is willing to make public

I love the guy as a BRAVE as much as anyone did but baseball is now a young clean guys game EOFS

By David O'Brien

January 16, 2009 12:11 PM | Link to this

Just back from the Lowe press conference. Seems like a cool dude, laid back and ready to take on the “ace” label, wants to be held accountable and wants people to expect him to win against the No. 1’s on other teams, etc. Talked all about the pitching legacy in Atlanta, how he wants to help get this team back to its accustomed position, and how the young core of current players and prospects bodes well for the Braves.

By the way, the void created by the loss of Kotsay’s better half? It’s been filled, if you know what I mean. Yowza….

18 Wheels: Now I saw your other post, where you caught your own faux pas. Disregard my previous one about your waivers question.

By Zach

January 16, 2009 12:11 PM | Link to this

DOB,

I just don’t understand the major risk here. If we were willing to wait around on hampton and then try to resign him this year, I don’t understand why we wouldn’t give druw a show. He is still a premiere outfielder, and so what if he bats 8th and hits .230. He’s going to most likely have more run production than anyone we could put back there.

Even more convincing to me is the fact that we are looking to be so economical with risky players. How could you be more economical with minimum contract. I honestly think that Druw would accept the deal as long as it was a major league one.

If anduw is even remotely close to the defensive player he was before with us, especially with the amount of rest he will have since the middle of last season, he is worth the $400,000 in a heartbeat.

Finally, lets say hypothetically that Andruw is a flop and the field and still cant hit for average. how man teams are looking for player that could pinch hit and just try to hit homeruns.

It makes sense to me.

By cabravesfan

January 16, 2009 12:14 PM | Link to this

I am not opposed to offering Andruw (who I have always liked) a minimum deal- if he takes it the risks are low, if he says no I would move on…

40 below? really? Would now be a good time to mention it is 85 out here in beautiful Southern California today (has been all week)?

By Chuck James was Solid until the 6th!!!

January 16, 2009 12:15 PM | Link to this

Scribes back in business, long time man. Hope alls well.

By rammerjammer

January 16, 2009 12:16 PM | Link to this

Andruw gave us some pretty great years and no one should forget that. I tip the cap to Shaun for his incisive analysis of Andruw vs. Murphy…it got me to thinking and admitting that, yeah, there are some similarities to their skills and their sudden downturns…so why no warm and fuzzies for AJ?

Uh oh. I feel a Terence Moore column coming…

By pat

January 16, 2009 12:17 PM | Link to this

He’s fat, lazy, arrogant and stubborn. No thanks Andruw. Run along now go you your favorite titty bar and drown in your sorrows.

By David O'Brien

January 16, 2009 12:17 PM | Link to this

I think you sign him to an MLB contract and put incentives for him for Stolen Bases and On base percentage.Slugger

Sorry, Slugger, but that’s completely prohibited. No incentives allowed in baseball’s collective bargaining agreement that are based on performance standards such as homers, hits, OBP, steals, wins, ERA, etc. Only things like plate appearances, innings, starts, games, etc, which are tied to staying healthy rather than playing at a high level.

By Shaun

January 16, 2009 12:18 PM | Link to this

“Shaun-now would be a great time for you to instruct us in Range Factor for Andruw. I’m betting it’s all decreased significantly in recent years. And you thought I had no love for stats.”

Lew, Andruw’s range factor has definitely declined. At his peak, it was in the 2.66 to 3.12 per game and per 9 inning range. He’s mostly been around 2.4-2.5 since 2003.

Remember Jayson Stark’s Andruw-is-overrated fiasco? Everyone hated Stark for that and I agreed that he overstated things but I do think it was clear then that Andruw wasn’t the fielder he once was. However I do think Andruw could still be a decent defender even today, especially if he played one of the corner outfield positions. The problem is clearly his offense.

Lew, I’m skeptical that Schafer is as good defensively as Andruw in him prime simply because I don’t know if anyone was as good as Andruw in his prime. It’s possible but that would be hard to imagine.

By brian

January 16, 2009 12:20 PM | Link to this

How far Francoeur has fallen in many eyes. This is a paragraph from a CNNSI article. If Kotchman can bounce back to his 2007 form after a season interrupted by a trade and a family illness, center field prospect Jordan Schafer can progress quickly at Triple-A and join Hanson in the majors by midseason and/or Jeff Francoeur (.239 BA, 11 HRs) can fix whatever ailed him last year (that last being the least likely), then there’s no reason that the Braves can’t thrust themselves into the wild-card picture. An actual playoff berth still seems like a long shot, though.

The least likely they think is Frenchy bouncing back. Of course, Frenchy bouncing back is critical to the Braves success this upcoming year

By BamaBrave

January 16, 2009 12:21 PM | Link to this

Ken Rosenthal’s comments stopped me dead in my tracks… I can totally see Bobby Cox playing Andruw out of loyalty; playing him when he needs to be benched. We don’t need that.

I can daydream about getting him back, seeing him cruise CF, staging a great comeback, propelling us into the playoffs, but… Let the youngsters have the outfield and we’ll just cross our fingers

By KC

January 16, 2009 12:21 PM | Link to this

I was in favor of giving Andruw a minimal ML contract. Was. But I didn’t realize how bad he was in the Domincan League. That’s almost more troubling than his performance with the Dodgers last year.

If Andruw relents and accepts a minor league deal, he’ll be with his buddies at the Evil Empire in 6 weeks. But the bit of optimism I had about his ability to come back has been dashed after realizing just how bad he was against sub-major-league-quality DR league pitching.

By Andrew

January 16, 2009 12:22 PM | Link to this

The knee injury likely hindered Andruw greatly last season, but the simple fact is that most of his problems are due to his being fat and lazy. There is no excuse whatsoever to sign a 33 million dollar contract and show up at spring training in the shape he was in last spring, especially after having a less-than-superb year at the plate the year before. Andruw has demonstrated time after time that he possesses the talent to overcome the bad habits that get him into hitting funks. He has stretches where he hits the ball to the off field with regularity and STILL puts up his power numbers, at the same time being far less vulnerable to the outside breaking balls that usually spell his doom. But with success comes complacency, and sooner or later he’s back to trying to pull everything and as a result flails at anything middle-away. I wonder how Terry Pendleton feels about the prospect of having to deal with Andruw again.

By KC

January 16, 2009 12:24 PM | Link to this

SOMEBODY TAPE THE DAMN THING!!!!!!

Haven’t videos of Braves press conferences been posted on the Braves website in the past?? I remember seeing a few. But the never posted a video of the Kawakami press conference, and so far, nothing on Lowe either.

By David O'Brien

January 16, 2009 12:24 PM | Link to this

Shockley, that’s terrible news about indie-103.1. Great station.

By BravesFanInRockies

January 16, 2009 12:26 PM | Link to this

CovBravesFan,

The Braves need a power upgrade in LF and that’s not Anderson’s game. They need someone who can hit 25+HR, 35+ doubles, and between Anderson and Diaz you wouldn’t get that.

Diaz may perform just fine as part of a platoon, but if you’re going to have Anderson in the OF at all he needs to have two other power threats joining him.

By David O'Brien

January 16, 2009 12:27 PM | Link to this

As good as Andruw defensively, in Andruw’s prime? Come on, let’s not do revisionist history here. Andruw was unbelievably good in the outfield for a decade. The best in the game for that period, and one of the very best defensive CFs in at least the past few decades, for sure.

By David O'Brien

January 16, 2009 12:31 PM | Link to this

Braves are still debating the Andruw thing, but I think a lot has to do with roster spot, too. They’re very reluctant to give him a major league contract.

I think they’ll wait to see (because Boras will be checking with other teams, already is) what else Jones is offered, because Braves would rather take the lowest risk possible on him, just a minor league deal. There are mixed opinions in organization on whether to pursue him.

I’m guessing if the Braves sign him, it wouldn’t be before middle of next week. That’s the vibe I got from talking to people today….

Daniel, I’ve heard that new Animal Collective CD is solid. Gonna check that out.

By David O'Brien

January 16, 2009 12:32 PM | Link to this

Now that they’ve solidified their rotation, the Braves really are in no hurry to add a bat. They’ll probably wait to see who’s left standing in the upcoming game of musical chairs, because there are probably going to be some guys ready to accept below-market contracts, and some teams asking for a lot less in trades for some OFs after another week or two.

If they had to go to spring training with this roster, I really think the Braves would do so and let the young guys compete and show what they can do, then try to add a bat later if necessary.

By Can I be Frank

January 16, 2009 12:35 PM | Link to this

Richie

Every year that Diaz has played over 100 games his BA is well above .300…in other words when given consistent opportunities he produces. (he played in 43 games last season) I’m not so concerned with the lack of power. He hits, if a guy is on in front of them he advances the runner, that’s baseball. Plus I think if you asked the braves player who see him take BP daily they would support him getting playing time… Also, I never said he has to be the everyday man, but some combo of he and Blanco or Anderson would be just as good as our other options (the options we know of anyhow) when you consider the price. We really need a solid 4 hole hitter. So why go get a 5 or 6 hole guy and leave yourself in a bad position when a go 4 hole man becomes available?

By dogsbrekky

January 16, 2009 12:35 PM | Link to this

cabrfavesfan - “You lucky luck b*******” 85 degrees

suffered my coldest day ever at 7 degrees this morning in NYC (I am from one of the hottest places on earth),

By Efrim

January 16, 2009 12:36 PM | Link to this

KC

The Kawakami press conference is on MLB.com. I’m sure the Lowe press conference will be put up at some point today.

By the Stranger

January 16, 2009 12:37 PM | Link to this

DOB, apologies if I’ve missed mention of this band here in the past, but check out Blitzen Trapper if you haven’t already. From my neigborhood here in the great NW. Their aught-eight release, Furr, is worthy of your Best Albums list.

By Chuck James was Solid until the 6th!!!

January 16, 2009 12:37 PM | Link to this

KC Kawakami’s is up there man….Smoltz too and Im sure Lowe’s is coming soon….

By Shaun

January 16, 2009 12:39 PM | Link to this

Andrew, I think Andruw’s struggles have more to do with declining skills than bad habits, etc. I think this because his only skill that was significantly above average offensively was his power. Players with a variety of great skills can still be valuable for a while even after their bats start to slow but not a player whose only great skill is power.

I did think Andruw was worth a look for the Braves but the more I dig, the more I see that at best Andruw is likely to be valuable only as a fourth or fifth outfielder or a platoon guy. At worst he’s a minor leaguer.

By DCbrave

January 16, 2009 12:40 PM | Link to this

Here is what I wish: Andruw’s struggles were actually all caused by injuries: disclosed, undisclosed, detected and undetected, and the Braves sign him to a major minimum or a minor league contract, and he recovers physically and comes back to 70-100% of his old self.

Dream? He’s just too young and too talented to lose it all, and all of a sudden.

By atlbravesfan44

January 16, 2009 12:41 PM | Link to this

Carolyn Hughes is aiight, but she doesn’t hold a candle to Kotsay’s wife. Unless of course she looks way better in person…

By BravesFanInRockies

January 16, 2009 12:41 PM | Link to this

Also, CovBravesFan, if the Braves decide to stay in-house and platoon in LF, the first guy getting the call will almost certainly be Brandon Jones. Deja vu all over again, I know, but at least B. Jones has the potential to be a run-producer that Anderson (so far, anyway) lacks.

By NCBravesFan

January 16, 2009 12:41 PM | Link to this

dogsbrekky I hope that 790 posts that interview, because everyone keeps saying it was really something else!

I don’t know what the causes are, I just think that when you step back and look at the big picture, Andruw hasn’t hit for a long, long time. So what are the odds that he will suddenly re-discover his stroke? Not likely in my opinion.

I think not re-signing Andruw would actually help everyone concerned. If he doesn’t hit and he’s here, it will be one more sad reminder of what has gone down the past few years (and somewhat of a distraction).

If he does come here and starts hitting again, you’d have to think he’d be gone after this year anyway. So what’s the point really - especially if you’re a team that’s starting to focus on the future - on long-term solutions?

We’re better off hoping he re-discovers his stroke elsewhere (except against us of course).

By Lew

January 16, 2009 12:42 PM | Link to this

Coach Smith-Sorry Dude, Andruw let numerous balls get by him, especially going to his left his last year in Atlanta. He had knee surgery last year and is radically overweight. I just don’t see the speed to get to many balls like he used to. His arm is not good.

You may not think much of Gregor Blanco (who I really think is the third best defensive option for center that the Braves already have under contract), but he had a Fielding percentage one point lower than Andruw had last year in twice the games and had twice the assists last year than Andruw has had in the past two seasons and 85 more games. Shafer and Anderson are better than Blanco, as well. We won’t even get into Gorkys Hernadez.

Add to this that the Braves have three bona fide Center Field candidates under contract for the ML minimum (with another in the wings) and that Andruw refuses to sign a minor league contract and you likely won’t get him for the ML minimum and I seriously have to wonder why exactly, you’re so heated up about bringing him back. What part of the Dodgers paying $22 Million to part ways with him is so hard to understand? What about this or his past two and a half seasons of horrendous play is not clear? The Dude is NOT the player he used to be-whatever the reason may be. He WAS an excellent center fielder who hit lots of Home Runs, but that was then and this is now. You can’t go back in history and recapture that which is no longer in existence. Sorry, but that’s the way it is.

By DAP

January 16, 2009 12:42 PM | Link to this

i think at this point the braves need to sign either griffey or edmunds to a one year deal to platoon in LF with diaz. both of them CAN play CF if needed which is a plus. i would lean toward griffey, because he brings more star power, but both hit righties well and lefties not so well, so it seems to make sense.

we know both of them would take one year deals, but would they take a $2 or $3mil offer? thats probably about how much wren wants to spend at this point.

it wont be our big bopper in LF, but i think with one of these guys its a really good platoon that would help alot.

By HTF

January 16, 2009 12:42 PM | Link to this

When will the Pics be up from his presser?

By the Stranger

January 16, 2009 12:44 PM | Link to this

Scribe, I remember that ten million dollar homer. Looking back I think it said more about Chucky than Andruw. It’s a shame about the downturn in construction — they could both find themselves installing new windows in ‘09.

…selah.

By Garry Lime

January 16, 2009 12:45 PM | Link to this

Now that they’ve solidified their rotation, the Braves really are in no hurry to add a bat. They’ll probably wait to see who’s left standing in the upcoming game of musical chairs, because there are probably going to be some guys ready to accept below-market contracts, and some teams asking for a lot less in trades for some OFs after another week or two. — DOB

That’s the typical lowballing, loser strategy that brought us megastars like Mark Kotsay, Willie Harris and Craig Wilson.

By Lew

January 16, 2009 12:47 PM | Link to this

Shaun-I don’t believe I said he was AS good as Andruw in his prime, but he is NOT far behind. I saw him play a good bit last year in Spring Training. He is faster than Andruw ever was and has a stronger arm. He can definitely get away with playing deeper than Andruw could because he can come in faster. The Dude can flat out cover some ground. I think you’d be pleasantly surprised.

BTW-How about Andruw’s range factor numbers in recent years? Was their a substantial decline? I seem to remember this being discussed a year or so ago, but that’s your department much moreso than mine.

By Shaun

January 16, 2009 12:47 PM | Link to this

“As good as Andruw defensively, in Andruw’s prime? Come on, let’s not do revisionist history here. Andruw was unbelievably good in the outfield for a decade. The best in the game for that period, and one of the very best defensive CFs in at least the past few decades, for sure.”

Actually I think even that’s understating how good Andruw was. There are a lot of smart baseball folks—both old-timers and stat people—who will tell you Andruw was right their with Willie Mays as the best of all time.

DOB, I know the chances can’t be that good but is there any chance at all Heyward could see some time in the majors this season (a la the Upton brothers who made their major league debuts as teenagers)? Based on what you are hearing, what do you think are the odds?

By Random

January 16, 2009 12:48 PM | Link to this

Tim: “What I want to know is why no one is talking about the awful hitting luck Francoeur had? It seemed for every ball Chipper hit that found a hole Francoeur had one that would find a fielder’s glove. He robbed more than his share of times. I remember listening to Jon and Joe talk about Mark Kotsay’s bad luck and he did have bad luck but no one every said anything about Francoeur’s flatout awful luck.

“I just want to know why. Because I feel if the luck just evens out a little bit and Francoeur corrects a few things he can bounce back and help the Braves this year. Why no one thinks Francoeur can bounce back is beyond me. It was just 2007 that he posted a .293 batting average with 19 homeruns and 105 RBIs. I’m not saying he is going to hit .293 but I think he can get back to around .275. While not great it’s serviceable if he hits 20 something homeruns.”

One way to measure a player’s “hitting luck” is BABIP — “Batting Average on Balls in Play”.

Here’s a definition from Fire Joe Morgan {R.I.P.}:

BABIP (Batting Average on Balls in Play)

Exactly what it sounds like — a player’s batting average on the balls he puts into play. BABIP doesn’t include strikeouts or home runs because those balls aren’t in play. Make sense? This stat is helpful to show the effect of luck on a player’s batting average. For instance, if two weeks into the season, Yuniesky Betancourt is hitting .573 and John Kruk is proclaiming him the next Honus Wagner, you can calmly point to the fact that his BABIP is an astronomical .494 (along with the two facts that it’s two weeks into the season and John Kruk has never been right about anything). One way to calculate BABIP is (H - HR) / (AB - HR - SO + SF).

Francoeur’s 2008 BABIP was .277, which was not only much lower than his 2007 BABIP of .342, was also significantly lower than would be normally expected.

(A player’s “expected” BABIP has been determined empirically by I don’t know who to be the player’s line drive percentage plus .120.)

Francoeur’s 2008 line drive percentage was 20.7%, so his “expected” BABIP would have been .327 (vice the aforementioned .277). So yeah, despite “Jon & Joe“‘s silence on the matter, Francoeur had himself some pretty bad hitter’s luck last year. (Sorry, fastasballs.)

(On the other hand, in 2007 he had a line drive percentage of 19.4%, even lower than last year. His expected 2007 BABIP would therefore have been .314 — in actuality though, it was .342. Francoeur had some pretty good luck in 2007.

Btw, three different sources project that his 2009 BABIP will bounce back to .307 — .312, and that his OPS will be rehabilitated to .736 — .769, which would be somewhere between his 2006 & 2007 performance levels (his 2008 OPS was .653).

PS: all those stats above came from fangraphs.com.

PPS: Chipper’s 2008 BABIP was .388 (a career high by a margin of .035 points), .027 higher than “expected”; Kotsay’s was .299, .042 lower than “expected”. Francoeur’s luck was a little worse (-.050).

dmack — you’re making way too much sense at 11:09 AM. Whaddaya wanna do — ruin our curve?

;-)

By Mike S

January 16, 2009 12:50 PM | Link to this

Very happy to hear that their going to be patient with the bat. There are plenty of options out there, so no need to sign/trade for someone now at a premium.

And between the young guys and the veterans with questions marks (Diaz, Francouer, Andruw[hopefully on a minor league deal w/invite to ST]), there’s still a lot of potential there, where they might not need to add anyone. At the least, you’ll have a better idea of what you have, and therefore a better idea of what exactly you need.

By Reid in EAV

January 16, 2009 12:53 PM | Link to this

If I were Frank Wren, I wouldn’t even be thinking about taking a flier on Andruw at this point. Right now what you want is a humbled, hungry Andruw (“hungry” as in hungry to prove himself — we already know he loves the buffet), eager to do whatever it takes to get back to some semblance of his former self. Essentially he need to be willing to tackle some version of the Javy Lopez plan last year (which very NEARLY worked) — minor league contract with incentives, spring training invite, and good on ya if you get there—cut (and free to sign elsewhere) if not.

But him saying he had “no interest” in the minor-league route tells me he’s not yet where he needs to be mentally to make this work. He still somehow thinks baseball (as opposed to the Dodgers, who are contractually obligated) owes him something. Sadly, the only thing he’s likely to get, at this rate, is either a year off or a season in Japan.

After that, maybe he’ll be ready for a “comeback.” But I just don’t see it right now, and I hope the Braves aren’t silly enough to waste a big club roster spot on him.

(And don’t call me an Andruw-basher — I was a huge fan of him in his prime, and I still think he has serious skills. But until he gets serious about his physical conditioning and plate approach, forget it.)

By Lew

January 16, 2009 12:54 PM | Link to this

Shaun-I apologize. I missed your range factor answer. I guess I was too intent on answering Coach Smith’s assertion that Andruw is still the player he used to be. I remember that Stark article, now. I also seem to remember that Edmonds beat him out for some “All Time Team” or some such thing.

By Efrim

January 16, 2009 12:55 PM | Link to this

It makes sense that the Braves wait, especially if the current FA outfielders are asking for too much or IF other teams are asking for too much in trade. But it would be extremely difficult for this team to contend with the Mets, Phillies and Marlins if they didn’t add a bat in the OF. I’d be okay with a Matt Diaz/Brandon Jones platoon if I knew Chipper was playing in 150 games and McCann could DH once and a while(like Joe Mauer can), but because we know both of those things aren’t happening, than it’s important that the Braves upgrade at that position.

By Garry Lime

January 16, 2009 12:59 PM | Link to this

Hey, DOB, is “Yowza” the same woman Lowe cheated on his wife and family with in 2005? Man, I guess he is a “cool dude!”

By Erod

January 16, 2009 1:00 PM | Link to this

Soo..Yeah Basically the Braves just said to hell with the BIG BAT they need…pony up LM…or next season will Be the offense’s fault…

By cabravesfan

January 16, 2009 1:00 PM | Link to this

dogsbrekky suffered my coldest day ever at 7 degrees this morning in NYC (I am from one of the hottest places on earth)

This is why I live in southern california… (the low for tonight is only supposed to be 50)

By Efrim

January 16, 2009 1:02 PM | Link to this

DAP

Griffey did hit RHP well this year, but he was doing it in some pretty good hitters parks. I’m not sure he’d be the right fit, but, if it came down to it, I wouldn’t mind bringing him in on a one year, 2 million dollar deal.

By Lew

January 16, 2009 1:04 PM | Link to this

Shaun-I’m not so positive after having seen both Mays and Druw play, that he WAS better than Willie, but it’s a quite subjective appraisal at best, anyway (he sure isn’t anymore). However, even if Shafer is half a notch below Andruw’s best, how much difference do you seriously think that will make in the team’s success? Shafer won’t miss enough balls for anyone to even care and he can make the spectacular plays, too.

Seems to me that as good as Mays or not, that Druw didn’t bring us any WS Championships. Marquis Grissom, a great center fielder in his own right, but not quite Andruw’s equal, DID get us to the promised land even if he never made a Spider Man catch. Shafer is, at the very least, as good as Marquis.

By cmac1919

January 16, 2009 1:04 PM | Link to this

“If they had to go to spring training with this roster, I really think the Braves would do so and let the young guys compete and show what they can do, then try to add a bat later if necessary.”

Ugh…letting the young guys play was the reason why our outfield was the worse in the majors. We need a proven hitter now.

Having a good rotation isn’t going to mean much if the offense can’t score runs (I’m seeing a lot of 1-0, 2-0 losses right now)

By DCbrave

January 16, 2009 1:07 PM | Link to this

Garry Lime: You may get a response from DOB with those two posts :-) Man! You better get ready dude.

By Can I be Frank

January 16, 2009 1:07 PM | Link to this

Nothing cool about a cheater

By THE BEAR

January 16, 2009 1:07 PM | Link to this

People keep suggesting Swisher in left, Anderson in center and Francoeur in right. A recipe for disaster. Look at their 2008 numbers.

Swisher BA, .219 Anderson BA, .294 Francoeur BA, .239

Total homeruns hit by that trio was 38, TOTAL.

I don’t believe that will win any championships.

And if Andruw Jones will not come into spring training willing to WIN A SPOT then don’t invite him to ST. Giving him a spot on the 40 man roster is not something I would do. And for those who think a minor league contract is a gurantee of $400K look again. You only get the $400K if you are on the Major league roster and stick with the team all year….unless it is a guaranteed contract which seldom happens to those at that price range.

By DAP

January 16, 2009 1:13 PM | Link to this

efrim i think griffeys star power would be good for the braves, and his splits are a little more even than edmunds’. i think either one would be great in a platoon, but would either one take $2mil? im not sure about that.

By KC

January 16, 2009 1:13 PM | Link to this

Efrim: Thanks man. They’ve got the Lowe press conference up on Braves.com now.

By Jersey Gil

January 16, 2009 1:14 PM | Link to this

DOB I’m confused about the Roster Spot, If you have 40 men Roster and Hudson is nor expected to pitch until problaly Aug/Sep, can You replace Hudson spot and Put Husdon in the 60 DL?

Let say that nobody sign Andruw and Atlanta Invite him to ST and he Make the Team, can he replace anyone in the Disable List?

By N8

January 16, 2009 1:14 PM | Link to this

Lew

“Nathan-I appreciate that you can feel my pain. Can you feel your feet?”

Too funny. But yes, I can…. today.

They just showed on our local news that it’s only -3 degrees, which happens to be a 41 degree “difference” from yesterday.

It feels warm. I know hard for some of you to grasp, but it does.

Unreal.

By Shaun

January 16, 2009 1:16 PM | Link to this

Lew, not sure what all-time team you are referring to. Edmonds definitely edges Andruw offensively but I’d say Andruw has him beat defensively. I think the offense is closer than some may think and the defense is not as close as some may think. I would argue that it’s not at all obvious that Edmonds has had the better all-around career.

By KC

January 16, 2009 1:19 PM | Link to this

Derek Lower: “I love pressure situations. I love pitching in big games”

That’s what I wan to hear.

By ncscoots

January 16, 2009 1:19 PM | Link to this

Lew, I’m skeptical that Schafer is as good defensively as Andruw in him prime simply because I don’t know if anyone was as good as Andruw in his prime.

I’d agree with that, and I’ve seen Schafer play a good deal. However, I’d also say that there isn’t much defensive difference in them at age 21. People forget that Andruw had excellent speed as a youngster, to go along with his super-human instincts and eyesight, and had a gun arm. Schafer also has excellent reads off the bat, and is probably a little quicker than Andruw at the same age (time clouds my recollection there, though), and likewise carries a plus arm.

The biggest difference, natually, is that AJ was producing jaw-dropping defense in the bigs at 21. Schafer hasn’t yet had to go to the gap in a 2-1 game, bottom of the 9th, in front of 50000.

But, overall, for their skill sets at age 21, I’d at least put Schafer in the conversation. I think he still comes up a little short in comparison, but he ain’t chopped liver.

By Random

January 16, 2009 1:23 PM | Link to this

im4ball — Thanx.

By Garry Lime

January 16, 2009 1:23 PM | Link to this

Lowe was great pitching in big games in 2004. Not so much in 2008. In fact, the Phillies probably voted him a half-share of their series winnings.

By keylargo

January 16, 2009 1:24 PM | Link to this

I make no bones about not wanting AJ back, but to argue he would be anything other than the 4th best defensive CF in camp is wrong.

The stat that told me beyond any question was that his time, home to first, was up to 5.1 seconds. That’s 90 feet. 5.1 seconds in the football 40 yard dash makes you a nose tackle. And that’s the forty yard dash not the thirty that is home to first.

His arm is shot. He had a great arm when he came up. He had double digit assists for 4 of his first 5 years. He had 4 assist in his last two years. Gregor Blanco had 7 last year. Mark Kotsay had 3. Josh Anderson had 1. They all shared CF and totalled 11 assist to the 1 AJ had.

I will admit he looked like he has lost some weight, but there is one heck of a difference in losing weight and being in professional baseball shape. AJ came up to the Braves in 1996, and you can look this up on the 1996 roster, as a 170 pounder. He weighed 256 last year in LA. He was starting out on a $36 million dollar contract. What does that tell you about him? The Dodgers paid him $22 million to just go away. They could have sent him to extended spring training to work on his conditioning and game but chose the go away option and paid him more than me and my 5 best friends will make in our lifetimes. To go away and play on someone elses team.

Every team in MLB passed on getting AJ on their team yesterday for the measly price of the worst player in their organization. The Dodgers would have taken anyone. But no one was offered.

By KC

January 16, 2009 1:24 PM | Link to this

In the press conference, Wren talked about the advantage of having sinkerball starters when we go into these hitter-friendly parks, like the Citizens Bank Bark, and the Mets’ new stadium, which is said to be a hitter’s park.

Good point.

By Shaun

January 16, 2009 1:25 PM | Link to this

Lew, lots of smart people—both stat folks and old-school folks—would say Andruw was in Mays’ class in his prime.

I do agree that Schafer is a better option than Jones right now.

I also agree that it is not necessary to have an all-time great with the glove playing center to win a championship.

By KC

January 16, 2009 1:26 PM | Link to this

Wasn’t trying to be funny with Derek Lowe’s name… just a typo.

By Lee

January 16, 2009 1:26 PM | Link to this

Hey DOB. I really hope the Braves at least give Andruw a shot because it would be better than him landing on the Mets! I mean if they could take a chance mid season on a 49 year Julio Franco then this seems like a no brainer to me and don’t give the 40 man roster comeback. Jeff Ridgeway vs Andruw Jones possibilities.

Can’t there be incentives on the deal such all-star game, mvp, comeback player, silver slugger, gold glove, etc. that would coincide to his performance?

By melnee

January 16, 2009 1:29 PM | Link to this

I THINK THAT THE BRAVES SHOULD BRING BACK ANDRUW JONES WHY NOY DONT THEY BELIVE IN GIVING SECOND CHANCES I MEAN YEAH HE WAS A BUST LAST SEASON WITH THE DODGERS BUT COME ON NOW HE HAS SOMETHING TO PROVE RIGHT HE HAS EXPRESSED INTEREST IN GOING BACK TO ATLANTA HAVENT U SEEN THE VIDEO WITH HIM WORKING OUT WITH CHIPPER AN BRIAN PLUS HE WORE A BRAVE CAP TO THE DUKE&GA TECH GAME FORGET ALL U ANDRUW JONES HATERS HE IS THE BEST GO ANDRUW

By Braveheart

January 16, 2009 1:29 PM | Link to this

Go to fangraphs and look at UZR/150. Of all CFers with 450+ innings, Andruw’s +12.4 UZR/150 was ranked 5th highest in the majors.

In 2007, of all CFers w/1000+ innings, Andruw ranked second with with a +20.5 UZR/150. There was no one close to Andruw and Coco defensively in center that season.

In 2006, Andruw ranked second with a +19.

In 2005, Andruw ranked first with a +28.6 (almost twice as high as the guy in second)

In 2004, Anfruw ranked second with a +25.4 - more than twice as high as the dude in third

In 2003, Andruw ranked first with a +26, almost twice as high as the dude in second

In 2002, Andruw ranked second with a +18.6

In the three years ending in 2008, Andruw’s +19 was ranked first.

In the three years ending in 2007, Andruw’s +22.5 was ranked first

In the three years ending in 2006, Andruw’s +24 was ranked first

In the three years ending in 2005, Andruw’s +26.6 was ranked first

In the three years ending in 2004, Andruw’s +23.2 was ranked first

Andruw looks done. It breaks my heart but that dude was absolutely incredible defensively. And they didn’t even track that stat back in his 96=2001 heyday when he was truly the best defensive centerfielder of all time. And if you don’t understand what it means for him to be +20, +25, it means he saved 25 runs relative to the average centerfielder. It was truly like having a pitching ace out in center with the run differential he was creating with his glove and legs. Saying any of our minor leaguers is gonna be like him is like saying Hanson is gonna be Maddux, Smoltz or Glavine. You just don’t go there.

By raindawg722

January 16, 2009 1:30 PM | Link to this

My mind is officially incapable of processing how bad Andruw’s stats have been for the past couple years. Whenever I start to read them, they just register as terrible, terrible stats for a long, long time.

By ernesto

January 16, 2009 1:32 PM | Link to this

Saltywoody - Mountain punks are mountain punks no matter how they get down the hill.

An average boarder isn’t going to push any more snow than an average skier - and someone edging down the hill is going to scrape off some snow, but the snowplowers aren’t doing anyone any favors either. And once or twice a year skiers will take some pretty wide - suck up the whole mountain turns - so you know - we all remember being new and you let it go.

I think the whole skiier v. boarder thing is an overblown issue with some skiers tending to feel entitled to first dibs on the mountain. Most of those resorts are leased from public lands, to preclude one group b/c of the perceptions of another is just plain wrong.

By Shaun

January 16, 2009 1:32 PM | Link to this

ncscoots, anyone considered a viable major league prospect in centerfield “ain’t copped liver.” But “ain’t chopped liver” and comparable to Andruw Jones and Willie Mays are very different things.

By David O'Brien

January 16, 2009 1:32 PM | Link to this

Jersey Gil, yes, they’ll move Hudson to 60-day DL later. Can’t do that right now in offseason, however….

Shaun, I don’t see any real chance that Heyward would see playing time in the majors this season. He’s only spent a couple of weeks above low-A, and that was in high-A. But if the Braves had a rash of injuries, sure, anything’s possible. Just don’t see it happening, though. Not going to start the clock so soon on a kid who has played 139 minor-league games, barely 500 at-bats, and won’t be 20 until August.

B.J. Upton was playing for a very bad Tampa Bay team with injuries when he was called up the first couple times. By the way, B.J. played 473 minor league games before he stuck with Rays in 2007, at 22.

By KC

January 16, 2009 1:55 PM | Link to this

A WILD CARD DOWN THE STRETCH…

Chris Carpenter came back at the end of last year and posted an ERA under 2.00 in several starts. Why should Braves fans care? Because Carpenter had Tommy John Surgery in late July of 2007, and was back for the final month of last season.

Tim Hudson also had TJ surgery in late July (of last year, of course).

If the Braves are in the thick of things come September, Hudson could wind up being a factor in the Braves season. You can’t bank on that, and they Braves aren’t counting on him. But there’s a very good chance that he can contribute down the stretch, and if all goes well, in October. Even if he pitches out of the pen, he could have a big impact down the stretch.

As I mentioned earlier, Wren brought up the point about how nice it will be to have sinkerball pitchers in those hitter’s parks in Phili and NY (the Mets new stadium is apparently more hitter-friendly).

And whether it’s late this year or sometime next year (assuming, hopefully that Hudson stays in ATL)… the Braves might set a record for most groundballs in a series between Lowe, Hudson, and Jurrjens.

By BossLady

January 16, 2009 1:59 PM | Link to this

I can’t see Andruw’s bat being any worse than the outfield of 2008. I have no clue about stats or anything. I just know a good game when I see it or not. Last year, I saw more players left on base than imaginable. It was almost certain that KJ, Yunel, Chipper/McCann would get on base and Francoeur, Blanco, K (1st base), Gotay and Infante, whoever Bobby put in left them there. Never, had I seen so many doubles, triples dropping in the outfield than last year. Just going by what I saw happen in the games tells me that he couldn’t be worse since we picked up 0better. We lost double digit 1 run games.

By BravesFanInRockies

January 16, 2009 2:04 PM | Link to this

Lee,

If the Mets sign Andruw and make a commitment to give him significant PT, that might be enough to put the Braves in contention for second place before the first pitch is thrown.

By im4ball

January 16, 2009 2:05 PM | Link to this

Numbers aside, you have to look at the overall plate appearance and hitting technique of a given player. The problem (as we can all see) is with his eye and with being over-anxious. I am not one who thinks you can’t hit bad pitches (because in the majors, you may rarely see a great pitch when you want it) but Jeff swings at some very bad pitches and then will let something fat go by. This says everything about his eye and his patience.

I think when he first came up, he got a little lucky, was a little more loose and instinctive and the pitchers did not know him (which accounts for a lot). The longer one stays in the majors, the more that technique, a good eye and intelligence mean something in hitting. Case in point is Chipper. For Francoeur to become a good hitter, he must learn to judge the ball better and he must start studying pitcher’s tendencies…no longer can he rely on pure instinct and athletic skills.

Hopefully, for his sake and the sake of the Braves, Jeff becomes a technician at the plate…I for one think he will at least try hard to do so….(now weather he succeeds or not………?)

By BravesFanInRockies

January 16, 2009 2:07 PM | Link to this

BossLady,

Even as bad as our offense was in 2008, Andruw’s bat was worse than anything we put out there. Much worse.

By Please Learn Science People

January 16, 2009 2:10 PM | Link to this

I understand that this is a sports blog dominated by hard right conservatives. Fine, I love the Braves so I can put up with when ideology occassionally slips into comments.

You nice folks mocking “global warming” need to read up. It doesn’t mean that it is hot everywhere all the time. It means many things such as changing weather patterns,you know shorter warmer winters in places where it use to stay colder longer. And it also includes more severe weather such as stronger hurricanes and more snaps of severe cold in places you wouldn’t expect to see it.

Just wanted that on the record that not all Braves fans reject science.

Now, please bring back ‘Druw, if he’s gonna take a bitty contract then I like taking a chance. If we can take chances on the Reggie Sanders, and the Brian Jordans, and the Raul Mondesis, then we sure as heck can do it for one of our own.’Druw is one of our own.For some reason people had sentiment for Smoltz’s hissy fit despite not knowing if he can perform well, but we can’t muster any sentiment for one of our boy wonders? ‘Druw is a Braves icon just as much as the Cy Young guys, and Chipper.He was worth paying to go see play for over a decade.Bring him back for a couple of million, don’t let the Mets or Nats get their handson him and he turns into a Braves killer as a few ex Braves did.

By Derek Lower

January 16, 2009 2:16 PM | Link to this

What’s this, I come to my computer to read this blog and suddenly I’m famous? Thanks KC!

By Martin Calloway

January 16, 2009 2:20 PM | Link to this

P-L-E-A-S-E don’t make me watch Andruw swing at outside breaking balls anymore. You talk about fingernails on a blackboard……..

By BravesFanInRockies

January 16, 2009 2:22 PM | Link to this

Please Learn Science People

I had no idea this blog was dominated by hard right conservatives!

Call the cops!

Citizens arrest!

By Hardball19

January 16, 2009 2:23 PM | Link to this

Just watched both press conferences and DOB is right, Lowe seems like a cool dude. And Kawakami also came across as a good guy. Alot of japanese players tend to come across as arrogant (Nomo comes to mind), but Kenshin had me at “soul”. This is going to be a fantastic season!

By BravesFanInRockies

January 16, 2009 2:23 PM | Link to this

Seriously, Please Learn Science People, some advice. “‘Please Learn No Political Discussions Are Allowed On the Braves/MIB/BBQ Blog**.

By TheAntiMe

January 16, 2009 2:24 PM | Link to this

One of the best decisions the Braves have ever made was not re-signing Andruw Jones last season. DOB has already mentioned what a colossal bust he was. Most likely, Andruw’s ship has already sailed.

I guess it’s okay to give him another chance, but people, it’s not very likely that that we will ever see the Andruw Jones of 2006 and before. Besides, even if he does put up numbers like he once did, he remains a client of Scott Boras. That means the Braves will pay through the nose after this “bargain basement” season to retain Andruw’s services. If you think Boras is going to give the Braves a break next season for giving Andruw another chance this season, I would say it is more likely that Paris Hilton will start hanging out with homeless people.

The Braves have at least 3 outfielders with MLB experience (Matt Diaz, Josh Anderson, and Brandon Jones) who are far more likely to put up better numbers than Andruw Jones is likely to. Let’s move forward looking to the future instead of trying to recycle the past.

Did we learn nothing, at all, from having a recycled former Braves hero (Tom Glavine) being minimally effective for the team last year?

By TheDunderChief

January 16, 2009 2:28 PM | Link to this

Does anyone honestly think Andruw is going to miraculously turn things around right away. I agree that it’s possible for him to eventually regain a portion of his former glory, but not without real at-bats in game scenarios. Judging from his numbers in the Dominican and his season last year, I honestly don’t think he could make any team out of spring training.

If he wants to make a comeback, it’s gonna take time. Remember, he didn’t lose his swing overnight when he left for L.A.. He was looking really bad with the Braves for a solid year before leaving.

Andruw is extremely gifted and he could definitely make a comeback if he were willing to swallow some pride, and work hard for a AAA team getting some real at bats. He won’t do that though, and I can’t entirely blame him. Right now though, he’s not making it out of Spring training with any club.

Maybe the Braves should just wait for the next team to release him at the end of spring training and then sign him to a minor league contract if he doesn’t decide to retire/train on his own for a year.

By Computer

January 16, 2009 2:30 PM | Link to this

Please Learn Science People:

You should’ve used Al Gore as your name, then we might take you seriously.

By A FAN

January 16, 2009 2:32 PM | Link to this

hey DOB i think you have a little pull can you get the pr director to give the press a microphone so we can hear the questions. its be nice to know the questions a player or GM is askin

By Lew

January 16, 2009 2:33 PM | Link to this

Shaun-It’s all an apples or oranges thing. Andruw-Mays, Mays-Andruw. Whomever.

As to Shafer-Wait til you see him play. He will give you everything defensively that you could possibly desire. I was quite impressed, as was everyone else who saw him at Spring Training.

By High Mage Al Gore

January 16, 2009 2:34 PM | Link to this

Son, it’s ok to be upset with these people who don’t accept our hot air cult’s teachings. But don’t take it out on the ol’ blog. Not everyone believes in our man-made global warming scam, er, hoax, er….beliefs.

By TheAntiMe

January 16, 2009 2:37 PM | Link to this

“But will he (Andruw Jones) play again for the Bravos? I really don’t have a strong feeling about that. If they invite him to camp, I honestly don’t know if he’s got enough left to win a spot. Maybe so. Maybe he’ll surprise us all this year.

If not, this is a story that will have a seemingly inexplicable ending, because I still haven’t heard any good explanation for how a guy could fall this far, this fast, at such a relatively young age, without a serious injury or illness.” - DOB

Perennial American Leaguer Richie Sexson sort of comes to mind as someone who was a very good hitter with power totally just losing it, although you are probably right that Andruw’s fall is one of the most dramatic, at least in my memory.

By Coach Smith

January 16, 2009 2:39 PM | Link to this

I was watching ESPN earlier and boy are they a worthless service when talking about anything other than the YAnkees, Red Sox, Cowboys, USC, Celtics etc..

this is what Tim Kurkjen actullay just said when talking about the Braves this season “They are still in desperate need of a few more arms to help Gonzales in a shaky bullpen”

WOW…does anybody there do their homework? If there was one part of this team that would be considered a STRENGTH it is the BULLPEN and they are speaking of it like it is a huge liability

Gonzales, Soriano, Moylan, Boyer, Bennett, Acoasta, Boone Logan plus Carlyle and Campillio long relief

That is a STRENGTH especially if they resign OHMAN

just tired of ESPN’s biases I guess but geeze at least get your facts straight

By Plato

January 16, 2009 2:39 PM | Link to this

Andruw simply lost his desire for baseball, but not the desire to keep making money off it.

So sorry Dodgers… lol

Braves, DON’T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT!!

By David O'Brien

January 16, 2009 2:42 PM | Link to this

A FAN: Funny you mention that. Adrienne, one of the fine PR folks with the Braves, had a mic ready to pass around to each person before he or she asked a question today, but Bowman hadn’t heard about the plan and asked the first question before she could give him the mic. Not making this up (hey, in this one instance, it wasn’t his fault, he just hadn’t been told of the arrangement).

Once he started with his question, Adrienne was called off and we went ahead with the usual way, mic-less. But just so you know, they were going to do it, had the cordless mic ready and all.

By crispy

January 16, 2009 2:42 PM | Link to this

Lew:

I saw him play last year, i think he is serviceable. I’d rather see him come in and develop into the next stud, but only time will tell. rather see him suck then andruw suckin even more

By mb

January 16, 2009 2:43 PM | Link to this

Just Say No to Andruw. The Braves don’t need the distraction of Andruw trying to make a come back in spring training. Let the young players fight it out for the jobs available or add a proven hitter. Andruw has proven he is not a hitter and doesn’t know how to adjust his game.

By Plato

January 16, 2009 2:46 PM | Link to this

If the globe is warming today, I’d sure as hell hate to be here when it starts cooling…

By Bryan

January 16, 2009 2:47 PM | Link to this

so what number is Lowe gonna wear?

By Coach Smith

January 16, 2009 2:50 PM | Link to this

DOB

Don’t get me started on the Global Warming thing…

i am a SCIENCE and HISTORY TEACHER…there IS NO…I repeat NO real evidence to support the global warming theory

Most legitimate scientists have been forced in the last 2-3 years to admit that there is no way to be sure and furthermore, if the earth is warming there is no way to know if we are causing it or whether it is part of a natural cycle

In the middle ages the earth actually went through what is known as the “little ice age”….and that was followed by a period of greater than average temps

By Braveheart

January 16, 2009 2:50 PM | Link to this

Andruw’s disastrous season in L.A. reminds me of Straw and Eric Davis in L.A. in the early 90s. Straw bounced back to be a valuable slugger off the bench for those late 90s Yankees teams when his body, fragile emotional states, cancer conditions and drug addictions allowed him. Davis bounced back to have some big seasons later in the decade. I think both gained assistance from roids in bouncing back but …….. Hopefully, Andruw can bounce back and become something between what Straw became (but better defensively) or what Davis became. I wouldn’t count on it but I’m hoping like hell he does. Andruw had every bit the natural talent (and maybe more) that those two had

By Plato

January 16, 2009 2:54 PM | Link to this

Dale Murphy also “kinda just lost it.”

By Original Jon

January 16, 2009 2:55 PM | Link to this

32 Bryan

By Chop Chop

January 16, 2009 2:55 PM | Link to this

Coach Smith,

The Braves’ bullpen sucked last season. No upgrades have been made. How can it be considered a strength by outsiders who are not giving players like Soriano, Moylan, Acosta, and Carlyle the benefit of the doubt?

You see, no one owes the Braves the “benefit of the doubt.” They’ll have to earn that respect if they want it. That’s what three years out of the playoffs will do to an organization’s reputation.

By Computer

January 16, 2009 3:01 PM | Link to this

coach smith:

we are not talking about religion vs. big bang, how do you explain the rapid increase of CO2 levels since the industrial revolution and other info based on ice core samples?

By the Stranger

January 16, 2009 3:05 PM | Link to this

Coach Smith, for the sake of our future, please find new work. There IS NO…I repeat NO real evidence to support your teaching credentials. (But I’ve no doubt you’re one helluva coach.)

By Trey06

January 16, 2009 3:09 PM | Link to this

Hey DOB

I don’t know if you’ve discussed this or not but… Do we still have loot to spend even after signing 2 FA pitchers? If so, what do you think about making a run at Orlando Hudson and moving KJ to left? I like KJ as a 2B but O-Dog is gold glove caliber and spark plug on offense. And KJ in left keeps his bat in line-up. He has the potential to be a 20 HR guy and hit around .280. Maybe moving him to the outfield can take some pressure off of him defensively and allow him to concentrate on hitting and getting on base.

By DAP

January 16, 2009 3:14 PM | Link to this

religion vs. big bang

those two things dont belong in a vs. together.

By KC

January 16, 2009 3:15 PM | Link to this

Coach Smith: It just goes to show how worthless the evaluation of national sports media types can be. They don’t follow the team closely, and sometimes don’t really even pay attention.

Dayn Perry said pretty much the same thing (called the bullpen a mess), but only because he was somewhat dismissive of Soriano and Moylan. He did qualify his appraisal of the Braves pen by suggesting that if Soriano and Moylan are healthy and pitch most of the season, the bullpen would be in very good shape.

Personally, I don’t think Moylan and Soriano are the huge question marks that some others believe they are. They certainly aren’t sure things… but the Braves are confident that they found and corrected Soriano’s elbow issue (which it is important to note, wasn’t a structural issue at all). And Moylan is reportedly progressing ahead of schedule and could be back as early as April.

Boyond the big 3 in the pen… I’m pretty optimistic about what they’ll get from Boyer and Acosta. Unlike last year, they won’t be overworked or forced into late-inning roles they may not be ready for.

The bullpen will likely also include Campillo, who was very good in his relief appearances last year.

And I agree with you that if Ohman returns, the bullpen is in great shape. Not good shape… GREAT shape.

By Lew

January 16, 2009 3:16 PM | Link to this

Crispy-I don’t know if Shafer’s ready to play in the majors or not. Offensively? Maybe not-he probably needs time at AAA. Defensively? He’s definitely ready

As to Andruw-I’m just afraid that if he is signed, then they will do nothing else to strengthen our outfield and if Andruw fails to come back strong, we’re stuck with either making do or finding someone quickly. I don’t like that scenario at all.

If AJ would sign a Minor League deal and be willing to work things out in Gwinnett, it’s one thing. However, given that I doubt we can get him for a minor league deal and someone will give him a more substantial payday, I just wouldn’t bother with him.

By AZBravoFan

January 16, 2009 3:16 PM | Link to this

I can’t believe Andruw has the gall to demand a major league contract right now. Is his ego that destroyed or is this Boras advising him? Definitely not worth bumping someone off the 40 man roster.

By raindawg722

January 16, 2009 3:17 PM | Link to this

Since we’re talking about former Braves center fielders today, I though it would be appropriate to post a link to a fine blog making the HOF case for a guy who used to play across the street from Turner Field for a decade or so.

http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/01/12/the-murph/

P.S. If you have time, the Herschel Walker post is fantastic.

By TheAntiMe

January 16, 2009 3:20 PM | Link to this

Did somebody say Big Bang? Thanks for reminding me, it’s time for movies featuring hotties. See you Bravos later. :P

By Bryan

January 16, 2009 3:25 PM | Link to this

Thanks Original Jon!

By Steve

January 16, 2009 3:25 PM | Link to this

David,

Have you been able to hear an advance copy of the new Bruce Springsteen album “Working on a Dream”? This is a wonderful album. It will throw some people at first as it’s more pop oriented and light-hearted than anything’s he’s ever done before. But I think it’s an off-the-charts great album, and possibly the most accessible album he’s ever done.

By S.O.S.

January 16, 2009 3:25 PM | Link to this

Blog delving quickly into a bickering match over global warming and/or religious beliefs. Mayday, mayday!

Wren, make a trade. Announce the signing or rejection of Andruw Jones. Something to change the subject for the good of the blog.

So, umm……trade Chipper!

By I'm cold

January 16, 2009 3:30 PM | Link to this

As a proud “hard right conservative”, I’d just like to mention the fact that there are plenty of very prominent scientists who are very skeptical or downright dismissive of the idea of man-made global warming……Of course that fact never gets mentioned much in the mainstream liberal media.

By crispy

January 16, 2009 3:30 PM | Link to this

Lew:

i have to concur defense yes, offense no. but his offense couldnt be worse than k-druws, but it would be better cuz boby would put jordan at 8th spot vs. andruw at 6 which wouldnt hurt the team as much

By Hip Czech

January 16, 2009 3:31 PM | Link to this

As a couple others have pointed out…Andruw’s fall from grace can be summed up in three letters - HGH.

I don’t know if Gary Sheffield is to blame, but come on, that whole 2002 team (yes Chipper, yes Javy Lopez, yes Andruw, yes Giles…) were all juiced.

Look at pictures of an early Chipper compared to 2002, goodness, look at those clips of Andruw in the 1996 WS compared to the 2002-2007 version.

Lopez, Jones, Giles all flamed out without the juice….Chipper to his credit is off of it and can still produce.

By DAP

January 16, 2009 3:32 PM | Link to this

KC and others

also, if you dive deeper into the braves bullpen situation (the ESPN guys rarely do this) youll notice that we added two 200 innings pitchers to our team leader in IP last year, jurjens. the braves had no 200 innings pitchers last year. jurjens led the staff with 188 innings, and was actually the only pitcher who stayed in the rotation all year long. if we get 200 out of lowe and vazquez, and just get the same 188 out of jurjens, that would hake the bullpen better, even if its the same 7 guys that sucked last year.

By Braveheart

January 16, 2009 3:35 PM | Link to this

No team is assured of having a great bullpen. Relievers and bullpens are so inconsistent from year to year. Unless you are lucky enough to be one of the teams with the elite handful of closers in the game, you’re just like everyone else trying to accumulate the best young, cheap, righthanded collection of flawed fireballers who miss bats and/or induce grounders to go with even more flawed and limited Loogies. San Diego had awesome relievers two years ago. Last year, they weren’t so hot. Who knows? No one does. Just accumulate the most talent you can out there and hope that 4 of them gel together and give you 250 to 300 quality innings that offsets the garbage you get from the other 4 or 5 relievers in their sh!tty 250 or so innings.

By deepinmetsterritory

January 16, 2009 3:36 PM | Link to this

Coach Smith, The world wasn’t created 10,000 years ago. Our (humanity’s) time on earth is just a snapshot of the actual span of ecological history. I know you’re a teacher and all, so you must know that the past 150 years have been unprecedented when it comes to carbon emissions and CO2 permeating the atmosphere. The science that you are quoting comes from some respected members of the scientific community, but a majority feels that global warming is a real and serious problem. And, even if they are all wrong and the scienctific statistics you quote are correct, what does it hurt? From a international policy perspective lessening our dependence on foreign oil is a priority, especially if those who export to us are ones who “hate us for our freedoms.”

By Justin

January 16, 2009 3:37 PM | Link to this

Good point, Braveheart. I actually had the same thought today about the comparison between AJ and Eric Davis. That is certainly the upside in AJ, but I don’t know that he is worth the downside of losing a player off the 40 man. Anybody have any idea who the next most likely to get through waivers would be?

By crispy

January 16, 2009 3:38 PM | Link to this

LMFAO “Mayday, mayday!”

By cvbraves

January 16, 2009 3:39 PM | Link to this

Good to hear/read about Tommy’s throwing session…hope it goes even better next week.

Glad the Braves are “considering” signing Andruw.

By SeaAtl

January 16, 2009 3:40 PM | Link to this

I read that the Cubs may end up getting rid of Felix Pie (via trade, cut, something). I realize his stock has fallen & he’d be another reclamation project. But, man, he was a huge prospect with 5 tools at one point in time. Still young, and a CF……wonder if that could be a fit here in Atlanta?

Also, good news about Glavine throwing off the mound today.

I am officially excited about spring training starting soon…..

By jed

January 16, 2009 3:41 PM | Link to this

about LF, i’ve got no problem with waiting and letting the price come down before signing an established LF, but the braves can NOT go into the start of the season with an unproven player in LF! you just cant run that risk when you’ve got question marks like Francouer in RF and Anderson in CF. (i’m optimistic about anderson, btw.) cant run the risk that of losing ground immediately. if so, what was the point of spending all that money on such a great pitching staff? i like nady as an option for certain, but i’m really intrigued by a platoon with matt diaz. the guy can flat hit! if you can get griffey for $3 mil, that would make for a very productive LF platoon, and it would only cost us $4 million.

By THE BEAR

January 16, 2009 3:42 PM | Link to this

Coach, I find myself coming down squarely on your side in this earth warming fiasco. I believe, if the numbers are checked, the “chicken littles” will find the thirties was the hottest decade of the last century. With that fact firmly in mind I am having great difficulty finding evidence that earth warming is in fact a fact.

I do know the farce has been good for about $25+millions for Algore. He knows how to play that tune alright.

By Jim H.

January 16, 2009 3:42 PM | Link to this

One point that needs to be mentioned is that the bullpen most likely would have remained solid all season last year, even without Soriano and Moylan, if the starters had regularly worked deep enough into games to keep the relievers from being overworked. I think the bullpen will be a strength this year….especially if we re-sign Ohman. Do it Frank!

Screw the opinions of (most) of the national sportswriters (especially that idiot Dayn Perry). The have to keep up with all 32 teams (or whatever it is). No way they can cover every team in depth and know all the nuances about the real situation of a team. That’s what good local writers like DOB are for.

By crispy

January 16, 2009 3:47 PM | Link to this

i think k-druw should be brought back to sell hot dogs in the stands. that would surely increase revenue if he could stay away from eating them.

By ncscoots

January 16, 2009 3:49 PM | Link to this

Just accumulate the most talent you can out there [in the bullpen] and hope that 4 of them gel together and give you 250 to 300 quality innings

As good an analysis of bullpen-building as can be. Heck, I’d even go so far as to say that 3 guys good 75% of the time will take you a long way. Anything more than that is probably just good fortune.

I mean, I like Moylan and Soriano, too, but there’s just no way to tell how they’ll perform after surgeries. Not until they start ramping it up, anyway.

By ncscoots

January 16, 2009 3:53 PM | Link to this

He knows how to play that tune alright.

Does it go anything like that dirge called “Weapons Of Mass Destruction”?

By David O'Brien

January 16, 2009 3:54 PM | Link to this

Almost forgot to mention this: I asked about Hudson’s option today, and found out it’s not a mutual option, but a club option. Yes, they fully intend to exercise it, barring some unexpected turn of events.

That would give the Braves potentially one of the most formidable rotations in baseball, featuring five from this group: Hudson, Lowe, Jurrjens, Vazquez, Kawakami and Hanson.

(OK, I CHEATED and came back to correct this, after somehow forgetting to mention Jurrjens initially. Just an oversight, folks, nothing more.)

By Spud Webb

January 16, 2009 3:55 PM | Link to this

Abrue should be the guy we target. Not andrew. Most of the fans hated Andrew when he was here and he was good, so they wont like him when he’s bad. Let’s not go back to the future. Get new players, Abrue can be had for 8 mill a year (my opinion) for like 3 years. DO IT. Bye Smoltz, sell out.

By ncscoots

January 16, 2009 4:00 PM | Link to this

DOB, I kinda think Jurrjens might have one the spots in your formidable rotation at 3:54.

By Original Jon

January 16, 2009 4:02 PM | Link to this

Hey DOB Regarding your 3:54 post, likely featuring Hudson, Lowe, Vazquez, Kawakami and Hanson.

Where does Jair fit into that equation??

By Logan

January 16, 2009 4:03 PM | Link to this

New article posted on trade rumors about the Glavin and Jones fa decisions.

By Since57

January 16, 2009 4:04 PM | Link to this

DOB, Thanks for that outstanding news on Huddy. I love his fire and his desire. He has also shown his preference to be in Atlanta. That fivesome is in fact awesome. Let’s get a big bat and we are ready to roll and challenge the NL East.

By Shaun

January 16, 2009 4:04 PM | Link to this

KC and Coach Smith, Unfortunately I’m not sure what is so controversial about saying the Braves bullpen could be a mess.

They were 12th in bullpen ERA last season. Gonzalez was injured for much of the season and wasn’t exactly lights out when he returned. Moylan made all of seven appearances last season because of injury. Soriano only threw 14 innings because of injury. Boyer and Acosta were nothing special. Carlyle and Bennett are merely average pitchers. Boone Logan has a 5.87 ERA at the major league level.

If things go right, yes, the bullpen will be fine. And I don’t think these are awful major league pitchers. But I don’t see a great bullpen when I look at that group.

By deepinmetsterritory

January 16, 2009 4:05 PM | Link to this

DOB, don’t forget jj

By KC

January 16, 2009 4:07 PM | Link to this

DOB: “That would give the Braves potentially one of the most formidable rotations in baseball, likely featuring Hudson, Lowe, Vazquez, Kawakami and Hanson.”

No Jurrjens??

That’s great news on Hudson. Great to know he’ll be back next year.

By jk101010

January 16, 2009 4:09 PM | Link to this

That would give the Braves potentially one of the most formidable rotations in baseball, likely featuring Hudson, Lowe, Vazquez, Kawakami and Hanson. DOB

what about Jurrjens?

By TexasBrave

January 16, 2009 4:10 PM | Link to this

DOB what happened to Jair? He should still be with us right? Or do you think he will will be traded to get a major piece for next year.

By dmack

January 16, 2009 4:10 PM | Link to this

DOB

You forgot to include Jair in that rotation. It becomes even better when you add him into the mix.

By flange1

January 16, 2009 4:10 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Do get the feeling that the BRaves front office’s perception of Charlie Morton has changed?

It seems that he keeps being overlooked in this years and next year’s plans.

I understand JoJo being overlooked, Bobby made his feelings known about JoJo toward the end of last year, It would not surprise me to see JoJo traded to get a fresh start,

But is would be a shame to give up on Morton so soon…

By Mark in Indy

January 16, 2009 4:11 PM | Link to this

Dave, you left out Jurrjens in your 2010 rotation. Who do you think is the odd man out in that mix? My guess would be they trade Kawakami or Vazques depending on which one brings the most back.

By Billy Pilgrim (Good luck Smoltzy & GO BRAVES!)

January 16, 2009 4:13 PM | Link to this

DOB I’m guessing your omission of Jurrjens was accidental at 3:54, but the caliber of offensive player they could get in a trade for JJ is interesting.

By Jake C.

January 16, 2009 4:13 PM | Link to this

DOB,

With your 3:54 PM post, are you inferring the Braves would likely trade Jair Jurrjens in this scenario?

By fleming

January 16, 2009 4:14 PM | Link to this

If you want to know about global warming just follow the money and political fortunes to be made. Question- if you were getting millions in grant money to research global warming would you dispute it’s existence. Question- If you can make political hay from proclaiming global warming are you going to dispute it’s existence. Question- It you are making millions from a company selling carbon credits (Al Gore) are you going to dispute it’s existence.

By Dave In Tampa

January 16, 2009 4:16 PM | Link to this

Sign Andrew to a Minor League contract with incentives that can earn him 10 million or so. Treat it like a business. Make the contract incentive driven. You just might see the best year out of Andrew yet. I sure hope so.

By Mark in Indy

January 16, 2009 4:17 PM | Link to this

Hahaha … gotta appreciate the JJ love :)

By monty

January 16, 2009 4:19 PM | Link to this

How do you hit 50 Hrs per season and go to almost nothing a couple of years later? Hmmm! there are lots of probable answers. steroids,drugs habit, alcohol problem, overweight maybe, eye problem, who knows for sure. one thing is his drop=off in performance has been off the charts. The idea of bringing him back with little investment is tantalizing. I would do it on one condition-that he slim down to about 215 lbs.and that he work extensively with strenth and conditioning coaches and have extensive medical testing done. Make his contract incentive loaded. I doubt he ever comes back but if he could hit 250. and hit 25 homeruns and drive in 80 he would be better than anyone we had power wise in the outfield last year. Oh yeh, and one more thing he would have to learn to lay off the slider down and away!!

By KC

January 16, 2009 4:20 PM | Link to this

Shaun: I don’t have a problem with Dayn Perry, for instance, saying that they bullpen looks shaky to him, pending the health of Moylan and Soriano.

I think the national media types are selling Acosta and Boyer short (and respectfully, I think you may be doing the same)… but I don’t have a problem with the above stated point of view.

Dayn asserted that the Braves pen will very good if Soriano and Moylan pitch most of the year. If not, it could be very shaky. I can’t disagree with that. It’s a very fair appraisal.

As for Gonzalez, no he wasn’t >exactly< lights out, but he was close enough. No one expects you to be 100% (in terms of sharpness) when you return mid-season from TJ surgery. But if you’re as good as Gonzo… 80% will work just fine, and it did.

The point no one mentions about the upcoming season though, is that Gonzo WILL be 100% (in all likelihood) on opening day this time around. And if you look at what Gonzo has done since assuming closer responsibilities a few years ago, it makes me wonder why the Braves don’t get credit for having one of the best closers in baseball. Because that’s what Gonzo is.

If things go ok - not good or great - just ok in the bullpen… if just one of the two (Soriano or Moylan) is healthy most of the year, and one or two other guys are reasonably solid… then along with Gonzo, the bullpen will be fine.

But if things go “right”… if both Soriano and Moylan (come April or May) is healthy… the bullpen will not be “fine”. The bullpen will be outstanding.

By Chuck

January 16, 2009 4:20 PM | Link to this

With Smoltz going to the Sox, I’m sure that freed up some money to spend on Lowe. Durability is good, relative to the other guys they were chasing.
Andruw and Franceoeueour got to the same place by completely different roads. Jeff worked his tail off and listened to everyone, and Andruw did the opposite. But they are both pulling their front shoulder out and dropping their back shoulder on every swing, trying to overswing on everything, with similar results. That results in a lot of ground balls and a few home runs, mostly down the left field line. I heard that Jeff is struggling the same in winter ball - can someone confirm? That’s the problem with “naturals”, when something goes wrong they don’t have a clue how to fix it, because they’ve never had to worry about it before. No telling what the Braves will offer Francouer, but I bet it won’t be happytime. Terry Pendleton has two failures there, and Chipper always calls his dad during a slump. Hmmm.

By haups4

January 16, 2009 4:21 PM | Link to this

Jurrjens has to be there. I would even pencil him in at number 2 to start 2009 depending on how spring training goes. But it’s always nice to have a surplus of pitching because we know first hand what can happen. i.e. 2008

By Wayne in Utah

January 16, 2009 4:23 PM | Link to this

Our bullpen To be honest, folks, I sure hope that the prognosticators all think our bullpen stinks. I hope they think our lineup sucks, and that our rotation is weak.

That makes it more fun IF we do put it together and make things interesting in 2009.

By Kyle

January 16, 2009 4:25 PM | Link to this

DOB-

Above you mention a potentially formidable rotation upon Hudsons’s return and list five guys- Hudson, Lowe, Vazquez, Kawakami, and Hanson.

What about my main man JJ? Please don’t tell me we would be stupid enough to deal him before either Vazquez or Kawakami to make room for both Hudson and Hanson. He’s develeoping into quite a good pitcher and might potentially become an ace. Why is he not mentioned for next year?

By Neutron John

January 16, 2009 4:26 PM | Link to this

Bring Andruw Jones back and give him a one year contract for the leauge minimun salary.Throw in a couple of incentives for games played and plate appearances keeping weight off ect.I’m willing to bet that he will win his job back in centerfield.He may have lost a step but he still is a great defensive centerfielder.Andruw played hurt the last 2yrs he was here and it caught up with him.With the weight off and fresh legs he will be a better player in 09.He is 31 years old not 41.He wants to be back with the Braves and he never wanted to leave in the first place.The injuries and the stress he felt after signing elsewhere all caught up with him in LA.He wanted to be in Atlanta but they did’nt feel and rightly so that he deserved a contract of the magnitude that Boras was demanding for him.You can’t fault the Braves for that.But it broke Andruws heart having to leave the Braves and it affected his game.He had the down year in 07 his last year here and he was pressing because of the impending free agent status.The injury to his knee and also one to his wrist started giving him problems just before the mid point of the 06 season.A hitter like Andruw Jones has to have good legs under him to have power and proper balance at the plate.The injury to the knee robbed him of that and he started to over compensate at the plate because of it.He fell into bad habits hitting and all the stress caught up with him.He failed to keep himself in shape and his weight got out of control.Yes it was his fault for not asking out of the lineup to rest his injury or rehab it.But Andruw played over 150 games every year for the Braves.But he wants to come back and play for the Braves and i think that he will get into great shape and regain his stroke.If he does he is better than any free agent still out there.And he has proven over the years what kind of player he is when he is right.None of the youngsters the Braves have the overall skills of an Andruw Jones when he was right.They have advantages of speed over him now but as far as power hitting run producing ability they can’t compete with Andruw.Andruw Jones knows how to play centerfield in the Major Leagues.He has been doing it and doing it for years.Give him a chance and i’m bettig he makes good.So give him that one year contract with performance incentives and see if he can earn it.

By deepinmetsterritory

January 16, 2009 4:27 PM | Link to this

Fleming, Your argument is based on the idea that these folks seem to have some knowledge that global warming doesn’t exist in advance and are cynically manipulating the system for their own profit. Whatever you think about Al Gore or these companies, that’s awfully pessimistic, man.

By Epinephrine

January 16, 2009 4:32 PM | Link to this

Haha I’d tell you JJ was left off the list, but it looks like I was beat to the punch

By BravesFanInRockies

January 16, 2009 4:37 PM | Link to this

That’s why I thought we weren’t allowed to discuss politics or religion on this blog. I have my own thoughts about global warming and the best and worst ways to deal with it (to the extent it’s a threat), but I don’t claim to know anything about the science or how to interpret it. I do know a fair amount about the politics behind global warming on both sides, and it’s often not very enlightening.

Baseball, BBQ and music, I can talk about with some passion (and occasionally some knowledge, when I’m having a good day).

By BravesFanInRockies

January 16, 2009 4:38 PM | Link to this

However, cracking jokes about the weather and global warming, while lame, is no reason to start into a dissertation about atmospheric science.

IMO, anyway.

By VP

January 16, 2009 4:40 PM | Link to this

Seriously DOB, couldn’t they find a better number for D.Lowe than that looser Hampton’s old jersey? Horrid memories of that #.

By SoWeGa Fanatic

January 16, 2009 4:43 PM | Link to this

That would give the Braves potentially one of the most formidable rotations in baseball, likely featuring Hudson, Lowe, Vazquez, Kawakami and Hanson.

Hmmm. DOB, I think I would have JJ in there.

By fleming

January 16, 2009 4:43 PM | Link to this

deepinmetsterritory- Not basing my argument on that at all. Only saying that if I’m getting millions to research Global Warming and the data that comes back that maybe doesn’t really show Global warming but I can manipulate to show it does to keep the millions coming then just maybe I do that. And don’t forget that the man who invented the internet has made much political hay and money from Global Warming as has many other politicians.

By Wayne in Utah

January 16, 2009 4:45 PM | Link to this

What if Hudson comes back strong (in 2010), Lowe is all we think he will be (solid, if not spectacular lead pitcher) in 2009, Vazquez is a solid innings eater, with around a 4.00 ERA, if KK is similar to Vazquez, if not a tad better, Jurrjens continues to improve, even if only marginally, Hanson gives every indication that the predictions for him are going to come true, Morton and Reyes gives us reasons to believe they can be .500 or better major league hurlers, Glavine retires (we can only hope) and Lerew actually comes back and shows potential for major league success.

That is potentially 9 starters for 2010. (or 2009, with the exception of Hudson) This is not mentioning Rohrbough or any of the others not quite on the radar screen.

Sure, a lot of IF’s, but if only 2-3 of these guys falter, we could have a real surplus from which to deal for a future third baseman, or whateve is needed for 2010.

(just trying to give KC a run for his money as the most positive blogger)

:-)

By TennesseePaul

January 16, 2009 4:49 PM | Link to this

I get the question all the time out here in Dodger country (quickly becoming Angel Country). “Do you think AJ juiced?”

From what I recall, I say no. Mainly because, if I remember correctly, the “big ban” went in place in 2005. AJ had his “monster homerun” seasons after the “ban” was put in place. Prior to that, during the heyday of drug abuse, AJ was a 35 homer guy. Not really a typical juicer story.
In addition to that, he never looked big like Bonds. Bonds looked like one of those guys in the strong man competitions. Arnold in his youth. AJ got big, but I never recalled anyone being excited about his increase in size. It was always, and I mean always, a complaint of him letting his body go.
I can find no record or report of it ever being suggested that AJ was anything close to a health nut, workout buff, etc. The reports I find are him laughing about doing a baseball tour in Japan and spending the evenings after the games downing buckets of KFC.
To me, AJ made it on natural skill. A skill he never cared to f******* on and understand the mechanics of. When his body began to decline from the excess of life, he was unable to recognize what adjustments he needed to make, and how he could make them. And from what I recall, the past few years, since his decline began pretty much, the reports were all about his body chaning. He lost weight. Reported to spring training in good health. Reported to spring trainging over weight. On a crash diet. Binge eating. A roller coaster of on again off again while trying to skate by on “natural talent”.
I think it screwed him all up.
I also think he could get back on his fit and be capable of .260 average 25 homers and average defense again. The main word being could. Will he is the real question. And I’m thinking he will not. It would take a lot of work. A complete change of his habits and attitudes. And basically, a reversal of the tag “stubborn.”

By fleming

January 16, 2009 4:49 PM | Link to this

Not trying to prolong the GW discussion but people have came on this blog complaining about making the blog political and right wing and such then proclaiming GW like it’s a fact and jumping on people like Coach Smith and saying he doesn’t know his job when it’s never been proved for sure one way or the other.

By the way- Sign Andrew.

By ncscoots

January 16, 2009 4:51 PM | Link to this

BFIR, what are your thoughts on Deacs-Tigers this weekend?

By deepinmetsterritory

January 16, 2009 4:52 PM | Link to this

BravesFanInRockies, Agreed. I couldn’t help myself, but really this thing should be kept to sports, music, and libations. Speaking of, I can’t wait to get out of work, watch espn2 from 6 to 7, drink a magic hat and listen to some TV on the Radio.

By hydee

January 16, 2009 4:58 PM | Link to this

DOB Any chance for us Julian fans that the Braves bring him back? :)

By hydee

January 16, 2009 4:58 PM | Link to this

DOB Any chance for us Julian fans that the Braves bring him back? :)

By Efrim

January 16, 2009 4:59 PM | Link to this

“That would give the Braves potentially one of the most formidable rotations in baseball, likely featuring Hudson, Lowe, Vazquez, Kawakami and Hanson.”

And Jurrjens. Six starters in the majors with Locke and Rohrbough hopefully in Double A or Triple A at that point. That’s some real nice depth.

By ppaddy123

January 16, 2009 5:00 PM | Link to this

To all the egg heads spouting off about global warming, politics, or anything else generally considered “off limits” on here, I have one suggestion: DO NOT TAKE YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR A$$. In fact; keep pushing it in further, and further………..into infinity. Maybe then all you over-opinionated, narrow minded, child like, temper tantrum throwing idiots will disappear from this blog.

By Chop Chop

January 16, 2009 5:01 PM | Link to this

Regarding some of the global warming talk…

Wayne,

KC could overheat the Sun with the optimism he produces for his beloved team. You could never outpace him. If we put KC in International Falls, Minnesota, a virgin tropical rain forest would spring from the permafrost.

By SeaAtl

January 16, 2009 5:02 PM | Link to this

Any interest in Felix Pie as a CF for 2009? Cubs don’t want him anymore.

By hydee

January 16, 2009 5:05 PM | Link to this

Sorry for the double post-and as a Red Sox fan I can tell you D-Lowe is a terrific pitcher, I don’t think you guys will be disappointed. Of course neither will the club owners of downtown Atlanta, hahaha just kidding, I’m sure he has matured alot in the last few years! He is nails when it is all on the line, I hope he does a great job for the Braves!

By crispy

January 16, 2009 5:06 PM | Link to this

magic hat & fat tire….my favorites. im sure Lew is swillin a #9 to warm up today.

By Wayne in Utah

January 16, 2009 5:08 PM | Link to this

My mama in SC says global warming has been put on hold for a few days!

By KC

January 16, 2009 5:08 PM | Link to this

Wayne In Utah: I can’t remember exactly who, but read a national writer recently who was talking about how much he felt Vazquez would benefit from returning to the NL, and getting out of hitter’s park he was pitching in. He guessed that Vazquez would probably post an ERA safely under 4.00.

I agree. I have a good feeling about Vazquez and his relocation to ATL.

And personally, I don’t think Jurrjens gets talked about enough. When Hamels posted an ERA around 4.00 in his rookie season, he was universally heralded as an ace in the making. Given that Jurrjen’s stuff and control is every bit as good Hamels’… I’m puzzled as to why Jurrjens, after a better rookie season than young aces like Hamels and Lincecum, is rarely talked about as an ace in the making.

Is there a chance that Jurrjens does NOT keep moving forward? Sure, there’s always that chance with any young player, just like it was entirely possible that Hamels and Lincecum wouldn’t turn into aces… but it’s more than likely that we have a young top-of-rotation starter here for a long time to come.

We’re not sure >exactly< what to expect Kawakami, he’ll likely be a solid starter. And while Hanson hasn’t thrown a pitch in the bigs… I’ll bet money on that kid right now (as would pretty much everyone who has seen him pitch). Real money. Between Hanson and Jurrjens, I think we’ll likely have 2 young aces to build around for a while.

And we all know what to expect from Hudson and Lowe. They’ll both win 15 games, give or take a few, and post an ERA in the low to mid 3.00 range.

They’ve got to make room for Hanson next year, if not this year… so someone will be the odd man out in 2010 when Hudson returns. That will likely be either Kawakami or Vazquez. But any way you slice it… the rotation looks good this year and DAMN good next year.

By jed

January 16, 2009 5:08 PM | Link to this

“Not trying to prolong the GW discussion but people have came on this blog complaining about making the blog political and right wing and such then proclaiming GW like it’s a fact and jumping on people like Coach Smith and saying he doesn’t know his job when it’s never been proved for sure one way or the other.”

—that’s one faulkneresque sentence there, fleming (had faulkner been a numbskull). i think the anti-global warming brain trust here should next tackle the “myth of evolution,” followed by an inquiry into whether the might actually be flat after all!

By deepinmetsterritory

January 16, 2009 5:09 PM | Link to this

I hear you Fleming, but I think it would’ve been a pretty big gamble for Al Gore to think he would’ve had the kind of success he’s had after An Inconvenient Truth. While it’s true that most politicans work in their own self-interest, sometimes that self-interest can coincide with something that they actually believe in and can be beneficial to everyone. And as for Grants, trust me my friend as someone who has applied to many you have to fulfill a number of academic standards before recieving the grant. There are a number of oversight committees for each grant application process who are constantly monitored to ensure that no bribery or lying encourages that kind of back-door profit-making. These aren’t pundits doing research, they’re scientists. All that aside, the bottom line is whether you buy the whole idea of global warming or not, I don’t see how reducing carbon emissions from our man made products is a bad thing.

By C's

January 16, 2009 5:10 PM | Link to this

Pie would make no sense for the Braves. We already have Gorkys and Schafer. Getting Pie would just be filling a void that isn’t there.

By David O'Brien

January 16, 2009 5:11 PM | Link to this

Just talked to Boras, who said eight teams called about Andruw today. He wouldn’t say Braves’ level of interest or name specific teams.

Said it might be seven to 10 days before they make a decision, that he’s gonna talk it over with Andruw, discuss each team.

Also, Carroll talked to Chipper today, asked him what he thought about Andruw’s future and possibly returning to Braves (he’s seen Andruw hit a bunch this winter, at Turner Field and at Chipper’s hitting place up in Suwanee).

Good quotes, as usual, from Hoss:

“Andruw looks good, but he’s still got the pull first mentality,” Chipper Jones said. “It sounds like wherever Andruw lands, he’s going to fall in someone’s lap. It’s a matter of what he’s willing to accept to come start over. I don’t think there’s any doubt he can still play center field, but people are a little leery of his last two offensive years. Until Andruw decides to make the adjustment at the plate, the necessary adjustments, people are going to continue to be leery.”

Chipper adding credence to the idea that Andruw wants to come back here (not that that’s any surprise):

“You can’t start in this organization and have all the success that he’s had in this organization, go somewhere else and find out, you know what, the grass ain’t greener and not want to come back where you feel most comfortable,” Chipper Jones said. “It’s only natural. If he had stayed away this offseason and not come down and hit with us and not hung out with us, I would say he might not want to. The fact that he has come and interacted with us as much as he has this offseason tells me that I think he wants to get back in the fold somehow. But that remains to be seen.”

By Wayne in Utah

January 16, 2009 5:15 PM | Link to this

SeaAtl

I would rather go with Schafer than someone else’s retreads.

BTW, I can’t see how Schafer would be any worse than Blanco or Anderson, even if he is not 100% ready.

Good move on Michael Young agreeing to move to third. When I was a kid, I didn’t care where I played, I just wanted to know when did I get to hit!

By KC

January 16, 2009 5:16 PM | Link to this

Chop Chop: Just because I predict that right now - just as they are, with no further improvements - the Braves will sweep their way to a World Series victory without breaking a sweat… you call me an optimist??

I don’t get it.

By BravesFanInRockies

January 16, 2009 5:16 PM | Link to this

ncscoots,

Man, I’m torn. I like both teams a lot.

I could change my mind about this before tip off, but I want the Tigers to win simply because Oliver Purnell is a great guy and an excellent coach and he deserves a signature victory. And I don’t want him to have it next week in Chapel Hill!

Isn’t it fun that while all the basketball pundits have proclaimed the Big East the best conference in America (and yes, it’s deeper than any of them — it also has 16 schools, not 12), the ACC may have the most teams that could make a run to the Elite Eight if not the Final Four this year?

The top half of the ACC’s pretty strong.

I also want Georgetown to beat Dook really bad.

By KC

January 16, 2009 5:17 PM | Link to this

Wayne In Utah: It’s not “global warming” anymore. It’s now “climate change”. That way they’re covered and don’t have to change their story when more and more places record coldest winters in history.

By BravesFanInRockies

January 16, 2009 5:18 PM | Link to this

DOB,

That’s a great quote from Chipper about Andruw’s willingness to make adjustments (or lack thereof).

No. 10 pretty much says what’s on his mind, doesn’t he?

By jed

January 16, 2009 5:18 PM | Link to this

deepinmetsterritory

you’re explaining things quite logically, but it’s a waste of effort, friend. these people have no interest in having their ignorance challenged. it’s a willful ignorance, which allows them to feel more at ease in an uncertain existence. kinda like telling a child santa claus doesnt exist. what’s the point?

By David O'Brien

January 16, 2009 5:18 PM | Link to this

Efrim, don’t know how I left out Jurrjens in that rotation. I was hurrying, screwing up things left and right. Obviously he’s in it, though.

They have a wealth of pitching, or could have barring injuries. As I said a couple days ago, they could have a nice trade chip a year from now in, say, Vazquez.

But then, what are the odds no one gets hurt, after what we watched last year?

By brent a.

January 16, 2009 5:20 PM | Link to this

Very glad to hear that Hudson’s option is a club option.

He’s ours in 2010.

By SeaAtl

January 16, 2009 5:20 PM | Link to this

Agreed about there not being near enough beer talk around here. I vote for replacing the political bantering with some good craft brew talk.

By hydee

January 16, 2009 5:21 PM | Link to this

DOB!!!! Did you see my Julian message in time to ask Boras about him???

By BravesFanInRockies

January 16, 2009 5:23 PM | Link to this

deepinmetsterritory

I’ll say one more thing and then drop it. It’s absolutely the case that Al Gore has cashed in on the global warming story, even if you ignore the money he got from the Nobel committee.

He’s a manager of a $5 billion global fund that handles “sustainable” investments. To the degree that capital flows to commercial projects that are designed to minimize global warming, Gore’s bank account increases.

He’s not a disinterested party. He may perform good deeds — that’s not for me to judge — but he’s also laughing all the way to the bank.

By David O'Brien

January 16, 2009 5:23 PM | Link to this

Wow, now I see how many other people pointed out the Jair oversight after I posted that comment.

Glad to see everyone’s paying attention. Can’t get anything past our crack audience. Or our meth audience, either. (that was a joke)

By KC

January 16, 2009 5:24 PM | Link to this

“He still has the pull first mentality”

How can anyone POSSIBLY be THAT stubborn??? You’d think he might have a clue by now that his existence approach at the plate has been less then remarkable.

Trying to get Andruw to not pull or lay off an outside pitch is like trying to hold Joy Behar back at a buffet.

By kirkinga

January 16, 2009 5:26 PM | Link to this

Wow, reading through the comments today has been entertaining.

I’m not buying the whole “40-man roster spot” thing.Smoltz wasn’t on the 40-man was he?

What about Glavine? Someone will have to go then too.

Same thing if we were to sign blog favorite Adam Dunn or any other FA.

What about Ohman? Doesn’t someone lose a spot if he is (hopefully)resigned?

And if he signs a minor league contract and makes the team, isn’t someone dropped from the 40-man then also?

I want another vet in this lineup. Now that he’s healthy, Andruw is better defensively than Blanco or Anderson.There are some expendable spots on that 40-man.

By Wayne in Utah

January 16, 2009 5:29 PM | Link to this

Dave I know you’ve been working your asky off lately, but if you have this info close, maybe you could share it. Which guys have options, and whic don’t.

Again, if your busy, just let it ride.

By KC

January 16, 2009 5:30 PM | Link to this

“But then, what are the odds no one gets hurt, after what we watched last year?”<

Well the odds are a helluva lot better this year, that’s for sure. There’s such a thing as injury-proneness. Two 40-something starters and Mike Hampton in the rotation wasn’t exactly a low risk scenario.

Lowe and Vazquez have NEVER spent significant time on the shelf in their entire careers. Jurrjens has always been healthy (including minor league years). And Kawakami, while he’s had a couple of DL stints in his career, has been very durable overall.

By KC

January 16, 2009 5:31 PM | Link to this

OOPS. Meant to say “his EXISTING approach at the plate…”

By StingerSplash

January 16, 2009 5:32 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Won’t beat up on you for leaving out Jurrjens from your 3:54 post (but seriously, dude … you left out Jurrjens) … unless … nahhhh, Braves couldn’t be spinning Jurrjens for something else. At least I hope not (though there’s nothing wrong with starting a good wild rumor. Ask the ghost of Lewis Grizzard that haunts 72 Marietta St.) Read on the Boston Globe’s Web site where the Sox brass got a hold of Kotsay. On vacation. In the islands. That would mean … the comely Mrs. Kotsay … on the beach …. I’ll stop right there. Before I need a cold shower. Too late.

By Wayne in Utah

January 16, 2009 5:33 PM | Link to this

Hey, your legal prescription pain killer crowd didn’t miss that either……

By crispy

January 16, 2009 5:37 PM | Link to this

SeaAtl:

sorry i left out the dogfish 60 & 90 minute ipa’s. theyre hoppy if ya like that type. the 90 is about a 8% and too many will mess up and can leave a wicked hangover.

By Interested Observer

January 16, 2009 5:37 PM | Link to this

Wasn’t exactly a ringing endorsement of Andruw from Chipper, was it?

By keylargo

January 16, 2009 5:40 PM | Link to this

“He still has the pull first mentality” Chipper Jones on Andruw Jones

How anyone who has followed the Braves during Andruw Jones’ career could want him back after that quote baffles me.

By David O'Brien

January 16, 2009 5:40 PM | Link to this

Wayne: Or the beer crowd.

By the Stranger

January 16, 2009 5:41 PM | Link to this

With all the crack “science” info shared here today it’s obvious the meth audience is in full attendance today. Stay tuned next week as these geniuses take Michio Kaku to the woodshed debunking string theory.

By David O'Brien

January 16, 2009 5:43 PM | Link to this

I want another vet in this lineup. Now that he�s healthy, Andruw is better defensively than Blanco or Anderson.kirknga

You’re basing that on nothing more than hunch or wishful thinking, I dare say. Because really, there can be nothing you have seen or heard about Andruw in the past two years to support that statement.

You want another “vet” in the lineup? Even if the vet was the worst hitter in baseball last year, and has hit .209 with a .312 OBP in his past 291 games?

By KC

January 16, 2009 5:47 PM | Link to this

kirkinga: Yes, if AJ signs a minor league deal (unlikely) and makes the team, he obviously gets a roster spot, but there’s no risk that way. If he EARNS the roster spot… GREAT! But if they sign him to a minor league deal, they don’t have to expose anyone to waivers for a guy that, though he may sill have the potential to be good, could hit Domincan Republic pitchers this winter.

I don’t know… I guess I’m ok with AJ signing a 400k ML contact and leaving Clint Sammons exposed to waivers. Nothing against Sammons, but I don’t think he brings anything to the table that we can’t get in nearly any ML backup catcher (and he’s not the opening day starting catcher anyway).

By BrandonC

January 16, 2009 5:48 PM | Link to this

Everybody needs to take a close look at what Chipper said about Andruw. If anybody knows how Andruw is swinging it’s Chipper. And if Chipper says Andruw is still not making adjustments and pulling everything then you seriously need to think twice about wanting him back.

By BravesFanInRockies

January 16, 2009 5:51 PM | Link to this

Expendable spots on the 40 man? kirkinga, dude, from my recollection on this very blog over the past 18 months there were denizens who were ready to give Anderson a gold glove and Blanco a silver slugger.

By crispy

January 16, 2009 5:55 PM | Link to this

DOB: whats wrong with some GOOD beer? would you rather i join the meth or GW crowd?

By Wayne in Utah

January 16, 2009 6:01 PM | Link to this

uga-brave When I heard you were heading out this way, I warned all my friends to watch out for a tipsy guy with a U of GA cap!

Have a great time….

By Tariq Shakoor

January 16, 2009 6:01 PM | Link to this

I am among those die-hard Andruw Jones fans who would like to see him back in a Braves uniform and in centerfield where he belongs. But, and this is a huge BUT—only with some strong conditions. Braves management should insist that Andruw, come to spring training in shape and with no extra poundage. They need to put him on a nutritional plan that will help him to manage his weight, which I think led to his knee problems last year. The other condition is that Andruw become a student of hitting to right field. We don’t need him swinging out of his shoes and flaying at pitches down and away. In short we need a physically and mentally revamped Andruw Jones. If he can’t agree on these conditions, I say pass on him. We need consistency from him at bat, not a long home run ever now and then. Come on ‘dru wake up and see the reality of your situation—-no one bid on you when the Dodger let you go, because everyone has the same concerns about you. We all know you can do it, the question in everyone’s mind is will you do it. The ball is in your court man.

By SeaAtl

January 16, 2009 6:02 PM | Link to this

Crispy - Love Dogfish Head and have tried to brew a knock-off myself of the 90 minute. Great stuff. You should check out Brick Store in downtown Decatur for an amazing beer menu and cool vibe.

By Mark

January 16, 2009 6:03 PM | Link to this

Based on what Chipper is saying Andruw hasn’t changed at all. Still trying to pull everything. No, I don’t want to watch that mess again……even at a discount! No, way it’s worth the risk.

By Wayne in Utah

January 16, 2009 6:04 PM | Link to this

uga-brave Did you cause that “haze” we have out here in the Salt Lake Valley today??

By SeaAtl

January 16, 2009 6:06 PM | Link to this

Saw in my last ESPN magazine (terrible, I know, but I get it for free) that Andruw QUIT the winter Dominican lead and was hitting .188. Doesn’t seem/sound right - can anyone confirm or correct that?

By David O'Brien

January 16, 2009 6:07 PM | Link to this

Breakdown on Lowe’s contract is as simple as it gets: $15 mill every season for four years. No front- or back-loading, no bonus, just straight $15 mill per.

By keylargo

January 16, 2009 6:09 PM | Link to this

Anyone think maybe we have at least some of our priorities in the wrong place paying Andruw Jones $18 million a year and the pilot of the US Airways jet that saved every life on board about $140,000?

By David O'Brien

January 16, 2009 6:10 PM | Link to this

Crispy, what in the world are you talking about? You need to crasp the back-and-forth banter a little better, stop reading something into an innocuous comment. I was playing along with Wayne. So chill.

By crispy

January 16, 2009 6:14 PM | Link to this

SeaAtl:

I will try to keep that in mind when I come down from -4 NY. i try to keep the DFH in mind when i drink my pale ale, but doesnt come close. porter came out good and will be brewing a begian white this weekend.

By Greg O.

January 16, 2009 6:19 PM | Link to this

As someone who typically whines and moans when a Teixiera or J.D. Drew rental-for-top-prospect(s) deal is made, I have to voice my appreciation for the offseason moves that Frank Wren has made this year. The most meaningful deal is obviously the free-agent acquisition of Derek Lowe. While some may say Wren paid too much, it was a necessary deal. The deal makes the entire rotation more effective, with each pitcher moving back a spot. With more capable innings-eaters, the bullpen also becomes much more effective. I remain hopeful the Braves will bring back Will Ohman, as well. Without a fully reliable lefty in the rotation, I think it’s imperative to have two lefties besides Gonzo in the pen, especially with the glut of left-handed power hitters in the NL East. Ohman and Boone Logan would fit the bill. I give Wren credit for taking a flier on Eric O’Flaherty as an insurance plan. Wren took full advantage of last year’s misfortune with the Lowe deal, as the Braves won’t have to give up a first-round draft pick by signing the Type A Free Agent. Kawakami is a wild card, but I believe it’s a reasonable risk-reasonable reward situation. If he produces 10-12 wins per year and 180 innings a year, he’ll be a bargain at $7 or 8 million per. If he’s a flop, the Braves haven’t traded away their best minor-league arms to acquire Kawakami and can absorb the monetary hit by using one of their many promising pitching prospects, who’ll be making the MLB minimum. Wren gave up a marginal major-league prospect in Lillibridge, sold high on Tyler Flowers, who best projects to be an MLB DH, and rolled the dice with two extremely raw prospects (Santos Rodriguez, Jon Gilmore) who are, at best, several years away from major-league contribution. When healthy, the guys who were supposed to be bench contributors (Omar Infante, Greg Norton) were strong last year. Wren took notice and retained them. No one can dispute that offensive production in the outfield is a problem, but I like the pitching-first mentality. Wren didn’t trade away the Braves’ best outfield prospects, so help may soon be on the way. With the roster as it is currently comprised, I see the Braves as a .500 team. With the acquisition of a serviceable left fielder on a short-term deal, I think the Braves can contend. But the greatest value of this year’s offseason deals is in that the starting staff will remain intact for at least the next two seasons, by the end of which the new “Baby Braves” and the return of Tim Hudson could put Atlanta over the top.

By Bravestillidie

January 16, 2009 6:21 PM | Link to this

SeaAtl, a I posted early this morning round 1 or 2 am. He was CUT. Thought you should know.

Here’s what I wrote “I would like to inform everyone about an interesting fact about Andruw you might not know. And yes I firmly believe his career is over until his hubris has evaporated and starts watching tape of his old batting stnace and losing a ton of weight. But interestingly enough, Andruw Jones was not only cut from the Dodgers, but he was CUT from the Dominican Winter League team he was palying for. Yes that is Correct. His winter league team CUT HIM I frankly don’t even think he’s worth the risk. Use that money to make the grass in the infield thicker so that all those groundballs DLowe’s sinker, JJ’s chage, JV’s change and KK’s split are gonna induce. Money much better spent.

BTID”

And here is the link to the information: http://mlb.fanhouse.com/2009/01/06/andruw-jones-cut-from-a-venezualan-winter-ball-team-not-enjoyi/

Granted its not a “credible” source, but I have always thought that if it walks like a duck, and it quacks like a duck…well you get the idea.

BTID

By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)

January 16, 2009 6:28 PM | Link to this

O’Brien, correct me if I’m wrong. I did some quick arithmetic and even with arbitration it would seem that our Braves current payroll will be roughly somewhere between 80-85 million. Without adjusting for inflation, it would seem that our Braves are doing some penny pinching. The payroll hasn’t been this low since 2000.

Wouldn’t it seem reasonable to add one or two more bats? Or has the economy actually put a crimp in the Braves payroll.

By crispy

January 16, 2009 6:30 PM | Link to this

DOB:

been a looooong week just like yourself and enjoying a good drink now. i probly took your comment the wrong way.

anyways, is it possible the line up wont feel so pressured this year to produce lots of run support given the bolstered pitching? maybe everyone will relax and be able to concentrate on hitting with worrying about sub par pitching?

By kirkinga

January 16, 2009 6:31 PM | Link to this

You’re basing that on nothing more than hunch or wishful thinking, I dare say.

Yes, I admit that. Same as with Smoltz, my hunch was he could still pitch despite my head saying something different.Since when can’t fans have soft spots for their favorite players?

Look, I bore witness to the horrible, no good last three seasons. I don’t expect AJ to come back and hit 50 HR’s and drive in 100.

I see a guy who is just 31. A guy who has gone through a humilating period and wants to redeem himself and do so as a Brave. That’s big for me, he wants to be here.

Second, AJ is battled tested, a veteran who has gone through the playoff chases and seen more victories than losses and he’s done it as a Brave. I believe this is an intangible that isn’t easily reduced to a number, but is an element that was missing in the Braves clubhouse.

Lastly, my expectations aren’t high. I expect .24—.260; 15-20 Hr’s, 60-70 rbi’s. Something in those ranges with a high strikeout amount and low OPS%.

KC, yes I would drop Sammons as quickly as I could. I believe it shouldn’t be difficult to find comparable talent should the need arise and Sammons is claimed off waivers.

By **eric in albany**

January 16, 2009 6:37 PM | Link to this

DOB… Is There Any Talk Anywhere From The Braves Camp About Ohman Or From Ohmans Camp About Where He Might Play Next Year? Are Any Other Teams Thinking About Signing That You Know OF?

I Know There Are A Lot Of Free Agents Who Would Be Considered Bigger Then Him But I Have Not Heard A Word About The Guy In A While…

Fill Us In On Ohman Please!

And A Bababooey To You All!

By kirkinga

January 16, 2009 6:38 PM | Link to this

BravesFanInRockies, look if we open with those guys then so be it. I’m just not buying that a healthy and motivated Andruw Jones has nothing positive to contribute.

To me, Anderson is this offseasons Matt Diaz. Last offseason it was real popular to plead for Diaz to have the LF spot full time. Well he got it and bombed, yet people still love the guy.

People in Houston didn’t think Anderson was an everyday CF, I agree.

By dan

January 16, 2009 6:41 PM | Link to this

Fact of the matter,

The Braves have some players on the 40 man roster that would probably make it through waivers.

Clint Sammons Diory Hernandez

Frankly, James Parr should never pitch for the Braves either. His stuff is mediocre at best.

That said, I would like to hope that Andruw would be humble enough to accept a minor league deal. He is still making 6 million this year from the Dodgers, right?

It is a good gamble for the Braves. Let Jordan season some more in the minor leagues for a while.

By High Priced Dancer

January 16, 2009 6:48 PM | Link to this

Bring him back. He will help the Atlanta economy. Plus that silly look on his face breaks everyone up. XXXXXOOOOOOOOO

By AAAA

January 16, 2009 6:48 PM | Link to this

Seriously, Please Learn Science People, some advice. “‘Please Learn No Political Discussions Are Allowed On the Braves/MIB/BBQ Blog* BFIR

whatsamatter? you onna them hard-core conservatives who just got his feelings hurt? LOL

By BosnianBaller

January 16, 2009 6:48 PM | Link to this

I was at the roswell rec playing basketball today when I peaked in the other gym and saw John Smoltz watching a kids basketball game.I was about to challange him to a one on one,but he was with his family

By NickB

January 16, 2009 6:51 PM | Link to this

I out payroll around $85 spent , and assuming they throw a couple of mill combined at Andruw and Glavine, that would leave us with around $10 mill if we slightly added on to last years $94 million payroll( assuming the $8 mill per Hampton average) I bet that Wren has the leverage to grab a Dunn Abreu guy if he chooses to go that route.However, I bet he is going to go the lower cost trade route and sit on some $$$ for the deadline.

By keylargo

January 16, 2009 6:52 PM | Link to this

I would not classify Matt Diaz as having bombed. He was off to a slow start and suffered a season ending injury that required surgery. He still has a career .300+ average and has always hit. I’m not sure of his exact stats, but he only had about 125 at bats and was hitting about .250, but you can’t judge a career by a quarter season ended by injury.

By kirkinga

January 16, 2009 7:02 PM | Link to this

keylargo,we’ll have to disagree on Diaz I’m afraid. I can settle for him as part of a platoon and as a descent PH, but everyday LF I’m not so sure.

Maybe my recollection on Diaz is faulty, but he was every bit as bad as Francouer for the time he played. At least with Francouer I know he can man RF and do well for an entire season because he’s done it.

Diaz, not so much.

By Zach

January 16, 2009 7:02 PM | Link to this

Just a thought, but what if the Braves signed Ken Griffey Jr. to platoon in LF with Diaz. He could provide some pop in the outfield against righties and also on days he’s not starting give us a power LH bat off the bench. That is, if he’s willing to platoon. Just a thought.

By ncscoots

January 16, 2009 7:02 PM | Link to this

BFIR, Oliver thanks you, and I thank you, LOL. Kind words from a Heel, of all things!

I’m kidding, of course. Living here in the state, I’ve come to know some good ole boys and girls who are Heels. Even a couple of Dookies that aren’t bad (eight months of the year, anyway).

Blood on the blocks this Saturday, if the refs don’t chew on their whistles. All those widebodies banging and leaping in there. I don’t think the Tigers have a defensive answer for Teague (Stitt’s quick enough, but I don’t think Stitt can cover him all game AND run the offense…nobody has that much gas), so I hope they’ll just play five-on-four and dare him to drop 50.

By Chop Chop

January 16, 2009 7:05 PM | Link to this

It doesn’t matter if Andruw Jones has a “pull-first mentality.” What matters is whether he can hit well enough while pulling the ball to be a big leaguer. He put together quite a successful career by pulling the ball. If he can’t make decent contact (or any contact at all, like last year), he’s just like any other bum who can’t hit well enough to play in the bigs

By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)

January 16, 2009 7:15 PM | Link to this

From the desk of Mark Bowman:

ATLANTA — Tom Glavine gained further encouragement on Friday, when he enjoyed a short, pain-free mound session.

Throwing off a mound for the first time since undergoing surgery on his left elbow and left shoulder in August, Glavine threw 15 fastballs without experiencing any sort of discomfort.

“It felt good, and I feel good right now,” Glavine said, hours after taking this latest step in his attempt to prove that he can still pitch.

Glavine, who has said that his arm “feels better than it has in a long time,” plans to throw off a mound again on Tuesday and Friday.

Over the past few weeks, Glavine has become more confident about the possibility of continuing his career, which includes 305 wins — the fourth most among left-handers in Major League history.

His desire is to pitch for the Braves, and earlier this week, John Smoltz said that he didn’t believe his good friend would pitch anywhere other than Atlanta.

But Glavine has acknowledged there is a possibility that he would choose to pitch elsewhere if he isn’t satisfied with any offer made by the Braves. The 42-year-old has also said that he’s not interested in signing a Minor League contract.

By Wayne in Utah

January 16, 2009 7:33 PM | Link to this

Am I missing something? If a former major league player (Andruw or Glavine) signs a minor league contract, does that mean they are doomed to eternal damnation or something?

Is this an ego thing? Don’t they both see that if they came to camp with a minor league deal, they are not forcing their teams hand to put another player through the waiver process, and possilby lose that player?

I am sure that they will be assured that if indeed they are capable of playing and helping the team, that at that moment, they will be restored to the major league roster? That gives their team more time to determine who would be dropped, or maybe traded.

This is an honest question: Am I missing something here, that makes signing a minor league contract for former major league players a bad situation. Do they lose union benefits or something like that? If it is just ego, then I say to heck with them. Go somewhere else.

Could somebody please enlighten me?

By nolie

January 16, 2009 7:58 PM | Link to this

As good an analysis of bullpen-building as can be. Heck, I’d even go so far as to say that 3 guys good 75% of the time will take you a long way. Anything more than that is probably just good fortune Scoots

yup. there’s a reason those guys are relievers, and it usually ain’t pretty

By David O'Brien

January 16, 2009 8:02 PM | Link to this

Coach, Carroll Rogers had the Glavine story posted on the AJC.com Braves page early this afternoon. Been up there for about five hours or so.

By steve_97060

January 16, 2009 8:02 PM | Link to this

As much as I would like to see a productive Andruw back in the Braves lineup, I just don’t see it happenning… All you need to do is read between the lines of what Chipper was quoted as saying today about his swing… he is still trying pull everything…

Don’t you also think that if Andruw was TOTALLY committed to regaining his form and fixing his flaws, that he would have spent a little time and money during this CRITICAL offseason on a hitting coach and maybe a personal trainer/nutritionist?

I just know if I was in his position, where this was a make or break year, that I would have done everything possible in my power to be 100% healthy and FIT… I wouldn’t show up still too heavy, and sporting the same swing flaws that sent my carrer into the crapper…

I have serious questions about his committment to the sport anymore…

By brian

January 16, 2009 8:06 PM | Link to this

for all of you who are pencilling in Andruw as our starting CF next year - did any of you watch baseball last year? Andruw Jones is not a starting CF anymore - he is barely holding on in the major leagues. with a big rebound could he contribute to LF and be a backup CF? yes. Will he win the starting CF job? No

By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)

January 16, 2009 8:08 PM | Link to this

Wayne, in Andruw’s case, the minor league contract is his only option and that’s IF the Braves offer one. He might get nothing more than an invite to spring training with no promises of anything.

As for Glavine, the future hall of famer is a whole different story. If healthy, the Braves would be wise to offer a fair major league contract.

Why you ask? It’s real straight forward.

Glavine pitched for five years in N.Y. He might be entertaining the idea of returning to the Met’s if our Braves fail like they did with Smoltz. Not only would that be another PR nightmare, it would make the Met’s that much better now that they have solved their bullpen problems.

And another thing, too focus on Glavine’s one single season lost to injury while ignoring the previous 21 years is the epitome of arrogance. Frank Wren has that character trait covered in spades.

By kirkinga

January 16, 2009 8:09 PM | Link to this

Wayne, yes, it’s all about ego and status. Baseball players(coaches, mangares, and GM’s) are not different than many other people in that respect. Smoltz leaving was also about ego. He didn’t “feel” enough from the Braves so he saw the contract they offered in such a way that it became a slight and off he went.

No surprise with Andruw. No surprise that the Braves want to wait which tells me that they are open to him returning. That in itself is a big hurdle cleared.

If he doesn’t come back, that’s the way it goes, but I do think he’s worth taking a chance on at 31.

By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)

January 16, 2009 8:11 PM | Link to this

O’Brien, I know. Except that she left out the last stanza. what of Anthony Lerew, is he good to go for spring training?

By BravesFanInRockies

January 16, 2009 8:20 PM | Link to this

ncscoots,

Get Aminu and Johnson in foul trouble and you’ve got a chance. I mean the Heels shot something like 33 percent and they still almost beat those guys on their home court.

And I agree, some kind of collapsing defense that allows Teague to be the only scorer might work.

OTOH, does anybody run that amoeba defense that Tarkanian used at UNLV? If you’ve got some athletic guys who understand it, it’s a fine way to shut down perimeter scorers.

By BravesFanInRockies

January 16, 2009 8:29 PM | Link to this

Coach,

As you well know, anything could happen this offseason, but I wouldn’t see Glavine’s departure as a PR nightmare for the Braves, since he’s already left earlier (as you noted)..

I don’t know the guy, but at least the impression I get is that he really did not enjoy being away from his family during the years he was a Met. If he doesn’t get an offer from the Braves he might retire.

By Scott

January 16, 2009 8:35 PM | Link to this

Any rumblings that the Braves may try to extend Chipper’s contract before the season begins?

By Philliesuk

January 16, 2009 8:40 PM | Link to this

As far as Andruw Jones goes, I scanned the comments, and I think N8 said it best. If Andruw wants to stay with the Braves, he will. If he leaves us and blames it on a couple of million dollars, then I won’t believe him. I think that if he truly wants to play for the Braves, he will accept a minor league contract. What’s the alternative? Sign a contract with the Mets??? Are you serious? If he thinks they let him have it in LA, just wait until they get a hold of him in Queens. Does he really want to re-live that pain? I seriously doubt it. I’m sure he has the same doubts about himself that we all share, so I hope he knows the smart move would be a minor league contract with the Braves. If he spurns the Braves, signs with another team, and blows it again, he will be the laughingstock of all of baseball history. You can bank on that.

Because of that, I would guess he would take the Braves offer, minor league or not. Can he still play? I don’t think anyone on this board has any clue. DOB has no clue. Andruw has no clue. It’s doubtful, but I’ll bet the Braves front office thinks it’s worth a $400K risk. Best case scenario is that his hitting prowess was inversely proportional with his weight.

Finally, on Diaz…he was a nightmare last year. He was absolutely lost at the plate. I think he is a good hitter, but he just crumbled under pressure. He was healthy until his injury, so there’s no explanation there. One thing is clear: the Braves seem to want to replace him in the outfield. I don’t blame them. He seems like a super-nice guy, but he should be coming off of the bench, or filling in when necessary.

By Tomas

January 16, 2009 8:42 PM | Link to this

I think Wren is doing a good job by not revealing his plans. This way fans don’t get overly excited, and then be dissapointed. I think they need to sign Tom Glavine. Having a healthy Glavine as a 5th starter would be like having Jamie Moyer. Glavine would be cheap, and the Braves have a lot of depth in case he suffers another injury.

Sign Ohman, Glavine, and Andruw, and if there is something left possibly a Jim Edmonds, or a Garret Anderson who knows(they’re cheap and they can hit). Who will be removed of the 40 man roster? How about Luis Valdez, Buddy Carlyle, Phil Stockman, and Anthony Lerew? Buddy has no chance on making the team next year unless something drastic happens. Who is Luis Valdez, and why is he in the 40 man roster? Phil Stockman can’t stay healthy and can’t hold on runners, and Anthony Lerew would never make the team now or in the present future.

By Tomas

January 16, 2009 8:43 PM | Link to this

and sign chipper to an extension until he is 40.

By NCBravesFan

January 16, 2009 8:47 PM | Link to this

Wayne re: your 7:33 pm … my take is that it’s player posturing on Glavine and Andruw’s part. They want to get a major league deal if at all possible - if no one comes through with such an offer, I’m pretty sure Andruw will accept a minor league deal.

Glavine? Who knows - he might just go ahead and retire.

By Frank

January 16, 2009 8:48 PM | Link to this

I would be all for them bringing back Andruw IF (and it’s a big if) IF he can prove he’s 10/10th’s or at least 9/10th’s of his former self. If not, then let’s move on.

I mean, as DOB said and we all seen during the decade that Druw played for the Braves….he was the most top-notch of CF’ers to come along in some time.

Can all the Glavine-haters just step off. I’m getting sick and tired of seeing all the “I hope Glavine retires” or the “Let’s not bring Glavine back” comments. If Jamie Moyer can do it, so can Tommy.

By Are you kidding me?

January 16, 2009 8:57 PM | Link to this

The fact that the Braves are even considering signing Andruw Jones is a completer Joke and I am offended as a Braves fan.

You let your premier player of your franchise go over 3 million dollars ( and push to your fans that he chose to leave…) and then you want to sign a washed up player when you need offense? It’s plainly obvious to me that FW and the boys don’t have any clue what they are doing.

I fully expect FW to sign AJ and Tom Glavine and finish 3rd in the east and miss the playoffs again.

By JimD

January 16, 2009 9:17 PM | Link to this

Tomas: Who is Luis Valdez, and why is he in the 40 man roster?

Valdez is a Rule 5 acquisition from the Pirates. The Braves used him as a closer last year at Mississippi and he had 28 saves, 77 Ks and 36 BBs in 65.1 innings with a WHIP of 1.29

He will not be dropped from the 40 man. He may very well be the Braves next closer.

By chris r.

January 16, 2009 9:21 PM | Link to this

You let your premier player of your franchise go over 3 million dollars ( and push to your fans that he chose to leave…) and then you want to sign a washed up player when you need offense? It’s plainly obvious to me that FW and the boys don’t have any clue what they are doing.

It is plainly obvious you missed where they paid that same premier play 14 million for 6 starts, 7 app & 28 inn last season. The Braves needed more reliability for that extra 3 million. And he isn’t pitching until Mid-June. That means he is getting about another 1.5 to not pitch. That is 15.5 mil for a year of rehab. The Braves just finished having 3 years of that from Hampton. At least with Andruw, it is only 400k and not millions. Glavine is a different story.

It is obvious to me that the Braves are being smarter this time. They have interest in both of these guys but they also are showing the necessary caution in going after them. They are waiting the process out rather than jumping at making a hasty decision because other teams are showing interest in them. Give them credit where credit is due

By webhead

January 16, 2009 9:30 PM | Link to this

Look there’s 25 men on the team ,put andruw on the team ,keep Terry P. away from him and let Chipper work his magic on him.If it works great ,we have a new manager in 5 years if not we still have a new manager in 5 years.All you’ve done is waste 400k and in return you may get a decent player back.Just like Javy last year although he got jobbed but thats another story.Comon Lew do you agree or not?It just spring training for crying out load. Have Faith in our God of hitting,Chipper can teach anyone to hit,maybe even Frenchy.And by God get someone in there to protect Chip or he’s going to have 180 singles this years

By Moby Grape

January 16, 2009 9:31 PM | Link to this

if KK is similar to Vazquez, if not a tad better, Wayne

I’m betting thats not gonna happen. JV has better stuff

By TexasBrave

January 16, 2009 9:31 PM | Link to this

Correct me if I am wrong but hasn’t AJ always been a pull first kind of hitter? It has served him well until the last couple of years. Thus there has to be something else that has gone wrong (knee perhaps) that has caused his down fall.

Still that was not a ringing endorsement from Chipper and I bet Wren was listening. I can’t imagine Wren giving AJ anything more than a minor league deal.

By KC

January 16, 2009 9:33 PM | Link to this

crhis r: “You let your premier player of your franchise go over 3 million dollars ( and push to your fans that he chose to leave…)”

He did choose to leave. That’s a statement of fact. It’s a free country.

The Red Sox offered him a little more guaranteed money, an ego stroke, and a better assurance of postseason play (it was before Kawakami/Lowe), and that was a trifecta of factors that made the Sox very attractive.

As such, he turned down a Braves offer that would have paid him every bit as much, if healthy, and walked away from his fans of 20 years. The Red Sox offer may have been better, but that doesn’t mean the Braves offer wasn’t very fair under the circumstances. It was. It was Smoltz’s decision to leave. Plain and simple.

By Scott

January 16, 2009 9:34 PM | Link to this

I’m a radio reporter in Columbus GA. I interviewed Jeff Francoeur last night and posted the audio on our website. He talks about his contract situation, his future with the Braves, Andruw Jones, John Smoltz and more. BTW he’s lost 20 pounds since October. www.newsradio540.com

By kirkinga

January 16, 2009 9:34 PM | Link to this

Right now the person I want to see them sign the most is Ohman. Either he or Joe Beimel.They are both veterans who have shown they can get it done and I think the one weakness in the pen is another leftie than get people out, especially the very dangerous lefties in our division.

By webhead

January 16, 2009 9:35 PM | Link to this

By the way ,I nailed that D. Lowe signing did’nt I Lew Told you he was an ace Nobody believed me. Although never even dreamed they would screw Smoltz over like that.Makes you look back on Glavine leaving in a different light nom does it not?

By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)

January 16, 2009 9:38 PM | Link to this

Um, excuse me but the Braves just signed Matt Diaz to a 1,237,500 one year contract. I think it’s kind of likely that he will play in Atlanta this season.

By JohnnyTide

January 16, 2009 9:42 PM | Link to this

No way . He left for money. He has the worse habit in baseball. Hitting problems. Chipper need not talk. The bum’s not worth a flip and he can’t even speak English. Pure trash.

By chris r.

January 16, 2009 9:45 PM | Link to this

* KC*

That is the point I was making to Are you kidding me?. I wasn’t saying that as my opinion. I am in agreement that he left because he wanted to. I was just saying that they Braves are being more cautious about the people they acquire. I don’t think I typed it in a way that makes my point seem that way but that was my intention.

By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)

January 16, 2009 10:00 PM | Link to this

Did ya’ll know that Kelly Johnson started out as a SS? he even played some 3B. Just a thought to keep in mind.

This is what I would do.

Sign Orlando Hudson, trade two minor leaguer’s for Xavier Nady. KJ could be either a starting outfielder or back up at multiple positions.

Atlanta adds an extremely versatile Gold Glove at 2B, which makes the Braves infield the best defensive unit in the division. Nady provides the big bat in the outfield while KJ gives the Braves much needed depth and experience should anybody (Francoeur) falter.

By cvbraves

January 16, 2009 10:19 PM | Link to this

From Mark Bowman’s article: “But Glavine has acknowledged there is a possibility that he would choose to pitch elsewhere if he isn’t satisfied with any offer made by the Braves.”

Where have Braves’ fan heard/read that before, or something very close to it?

Oh, now I remember…believe Smoltz said something to that effect several times over the past month or so.

Folks, could be the Braves FO and fans are about to be held “hostage” again. It sounds like: either pay up (what I want) or I’m out of here, and you’ll be sorry because the fans will rage like never before. It might be a sign that Glavine’s “gone” already…he’s just putting the plan in motion.

What happened to all that talk about wanting to finish his career as a Brave…going to play for the Braves or retire, loyalty, etc.

Could be Glavine is putting the word out (just like Smoltz did) to see what kind of interest he draws (just like Smoltz did), maybe even some video soon of pitching rehab (just like Smoltz did), and he might leave no matter what the Braves offer (just like Smoltz did) so he can play for a “contender” (just like Smoltz did).

Could be, but I certainly hope not. I’ve been a big Smoltz and Glavine fan since they arrived in the majors, and I’ll always appreciate their amazing accomplishments.

But I’m a Braves fan first and always will be.

Say it isn’t so, Tommy.

By Cozy B

January 16, 2009 10:20 PM | Link to this

DOB, two thoughts for LF.. Eric Byrnes? I know he’s got a huge 10 mil owed to him in ‘09 coming off calf injuries, but wow…Just think of a 3-4-5 of chip, byrnesy, mac…OR getting griffey for two years to platoon with diaz…With the loss of Smoltz, it would be nice to have Griff in the clubhouse, well as the field…Do you think those would be logical stopgaps FW is considering?

By oldbrave

January 16, 2009 10:33 PM | Link to this

“Andruw still has the pull it first approach”(paraphrase from Chipper). If so then that dog won’t hunt!

By oldbrave

January 16, 2009 10:35 PM | Link to this

KJ is not!! a back up talent. He is a starter.

By Logan

January 16, 2009 11:02 PM | Link to this

Francoeur Radio Interview

By Lew

January 16, 2009 11:08 PM | Link to this

Webhead-Two things. First of all, you’re just assuming that Andruw will sign for as little as $400K, when Boras has already claimed that there are eight teams inquiring about him. Second-If he does sign for that much and sucks in Spring Training enough that you want to release him, you’ve done nothing to fill your outfield needs-signing him would just keep the Braves from doing anything meaningful to improve themselves at that position.

If he had just been bad with the Dodgers, rather than for an additional year and a half with the Braves, you might be all right. However, with 21/2 years of horrendous play and a seeming lack of any inkling what his problems are, you’ve just got to have a healthy dose of skepticism that he will be OK again. It’s time to face the facts that he is not the player he once was, either offensively or defensively.

By geeeze

January 16, 2009 11:16 PM | Link to this

Eric Byrnes? CozyB

the guy stinks, he isn’t worth 5 mil , let alone 10. geeeze.

By cabravesfan

January 16, 2009 11:19 PM | Link to this

Good interview from Francoeur- thanks for the link Logan

By Wayne in Utah

January 16, 2009 11:26 PM | Link to this

Nice radio interview Scott. Thanks for the link Logan.

I agree with Lew. AJ is probably done. Only way I would sign him is if he came in w/ a minor league deal. Cut him quick if it is clear he is not enough.

Coach I have long espoused the prospect of getting a decent hitter who could play the 30-50 games at third when Chipper is not able to go, and also be able to play the other corner positions. I have thought of KJ as that person, but I am just not certain that I would be willing to sit him half the time, or more, due to his potential, if he puts it all together. I was really thinking early on this winter that a guy like Casey Blake would be perfect for that spot.

To be honest, I would be OK if the Braves pursued Ken Griffey Jr to platoon with Diaz. That probably wouldn’t be a bad combo. I think Diaz, if not pressured to be the man every day, should return to his pre-2008 form.

By N Nine

January 16, 2009 11:34 PM | Link to this

sign Hudson to a new 20-year contract.

By Chop Chop

January 16, 2009 11:42 PM | Link to this

By JohnnyTide

January 16, 2009 9:42 PM | Link to this

No way . He left for money. He has the worse habit in baseball. Hitting problems. Chipper need not talk. The bum’s not worth a flip and he can’t even speak English. Pure trash.

(You’re a class act all the way, pal.)

By KC

January 16, 2009 11:45 PM | Link to this

chris r.: Sorry dude… it didn’t pay close enough attention to your post. My mistake.

By Larry Moe And Dave

January 17, 2009 12:03 AM | Link to this

David quotes Scott Boras—“An unnamed team has jumped into the Jones bidding. This particular team values the attributes of a slovenly, rapidly deteriorating center fielder with the range of William Hung. This team joins 24 other teams who have been in constant contact to verify that we don’t jump at any of those insulting 22 million dollar offers. Andruw is going to have to see some finer gentlemen’s clubs in some of the smaller markets. Andruw can’t be expected to play in a town where he has no chance of getting into trouble after 3:00AM. I would like to thank all the fine journalists like David O’Brien who insure that the bidding for my clients remains above board. Would also like to thank the fine people of Atlanta who continue to recognize the value of reclamation projects. When has it not been the American Way to react to abject failure by providing another influx of bailout money”.

By blueridge

January 17, 2009 12:47 AM | Link to this

For Chipper to say that A.J. still has the “pull first mentality” means that he believes that Andruw hasn’t changed. If I’m reading between the lines- that means he doesn’t believe that Andruw has been able to swallow his pride and make the obvious adjustments. I think it was a more than subtle hint to the front office about whether or not they should pursue A.J.

Although, this wouldn’t be the first time that Chipper has been contradicted by the front office this off-season. See: Smoltz, John.

By Neon Deion

January 17, 2009 1:03 AM | Link to this

Where McCarver at?

By KC

January 17, 2009 1:37 AM | Link to this

By Neon Deion

January 17, 2009 1:03 AM | Link to this

Where McCarver at?

Wow, that joke isn’t old yet. It wasn’t all that funny the first time dude. It sure as hell isn’t funny the 71st time.

By KC

January 17, 2009 1:39 AM | Link to this

cvbraves: That’s not really the tone I’ve heard from Glavine directly. He has said basically that if the Braves aren’t interested in bringing him back, he may consider pitching elsewhere. But his focus is on pitching again in ATL.

By uga-brave

January 17, 2009 1:50 AM | Link to this

DOB,

greetings from somewhere around 5000 feet. i think it is colder in the atl.

either way DOB, I think you already know that logic and i departed ways a long time ago.

we definitely should give andruw a shot, even if it costs us a roster spot.

40 man roster right? if lerew, sammons, parr, or any other fringe player are on the roster you gotta bump them.

andruw is worth the risk.

cant understand how that is debatable.

sure he stunk it up last year, i know he was no prize in his last year here, but he still hit 26 knocks and drove in 90.

26 was one less then our entire outfield hit last year.

i really believe he would me more then servicable.

everyone believes francoeur will rebound. he might.

the so called weight is not a factor.

29, 19, 11, is more of a factor. absolutely no mechanics. you cant hit off your front foot.

never seen a good hitter that drops his hands.

until he reconizes the strike zone not much will change.

as for druw at least we know he has done it before.

it may work, or may not.

but i guaratee he still has more upside than diaz.

we know what diaz is. a low .ops guy that struggles against good rh’s.

diaz does not strike fear into anyone save the florida marlins.

give druw a shot.

selah.

By shawn

January 17, 2009 1:58 AM | Link to this

Let me first say I know it won’t happen but…… could you imagine the year Chipper and those guys would have if Manny hit behind him .. with Manny in there you could go righty /lefty in that lineup. I know, I know ….. but would be nice to go for it instead of making waiver claims on outfielders …

By Nine plus One

January 17, 2009 2:10 AM | Link to this

Hey D.O.B. Thanks for another great blog. Any word on an extension for Hoss? I would like to see them go ahead and take care of that. I don’t wanna see the same thing happen with Chipper that happened with Smoltz.

By David O'Brien

January 17, 2009 2:16 AM | Link to this

Steve, I haven’t heard the new Springsteen album, but I love the song he did for The Wrestler.

Speaking of that movie, I saw it tonight. Sensational performance by Mickey Rourke, just as seemingly everyone else who’s seen it has noted. Really is gut-wrenching work by the man, who barely even resembles in body or facial features the actor he was 25 years ago.

And Marisa Tomei is also terrific in the movie (and fine looking).

By uga-brave

January 17, 2009 2:47 AM | Link to this

mickey rourke sure has come a long way since his barry levinson’s films.

sin city brought him back. kinda like travolta in pulp fiction.

as for pulp fiction was there really a bad scene in the movie?

eric stoltz and eating cereal when the car crashes in his front yard.

bringing in a overdosed uma, great stuff.

the wolf, tim roth, zed, great frickin movie.

tons of one liner’s in that movie.

and a great soundtrack to boot.

By Eric Stoltz

January 17, 2009 2:51 AM | Link to this

I’ll take the Pepsi challenge with that Amsterdam sh!t any day of the week, ugabrave.

By Danko

January 17, 2009 2:52 AM | Link to this

Just got back from night two of three of the DBT shows here in Athens. All I can say is, the boys are back. What an awesome, awesome show. Centromatic opened and did their usual fantastic set. DBT rocked the crowd’s collective faces off. One more night to go. Where night one faltered a bit with the forced setlist (auctioned off to fans), night two delivered in it’s unscripted nature. Hood held up tonight’s “set list” which consisted of nothing other than the words Play…Whatever…The…&(*… You Want.

By Smoky Joe Wood

January 17, 2009 2:58 AM | Link to this

I love Glavine and always will for what he did. But I don’t want to see him back. He should not be taking starts away from Jo-Jo, Charley, or Hanson. We need to be developing the next Tommy Glavine, not orchestrating farewell tours.

DOB, I was blown away just by the trailer for The Wrestler. I’ll be seeing it this weekend.

By Terry Mcguirk

January 17, 2009 3:07 AM | Link to this

We’re not going to sign Glavine. We like our young core.

By ex Braves fan

January 17, 2009 3:08 AM | Link to this

Kirknga,

“I see a guy who is just 31.”

Really? As usual, you’re the only one. Just curious, how old are you, kirknga? To be this naive, I really hope you’re just a young fan boy.

I’m just glad Boras didn’t say Andruw’s still worth $500 mil. I’m sure you would’ve endorsed the Braves signing him at a “half price discount” at “only” $250 mil. Kind of like how they signed Lowe, the 36 year-old #2 starter “worth $90 mil”, for only $60 mil. What a bargain!

I’m thinking it’s past your bedtime, kirknga. Better luck tomorrow.

By uga-brave

January 17, 2009 3:30 AM | Link to this

terry mcquirk,

he still has his mini fridge and his parking space, right?

always baffled, cant understand what the smoltz was thinking right?

but he has the greatest job in sports, no one to answer to.

never scene john malone at a braves game. i am not sure whether liberty media even realizes they own a team.

at least liberty media did not pull the money off the board.

i thought they would and i was wrong. they definetely have stayed out of the way.

wren may have backed into his third or fourth choice but at least he made the team somewhat better.

they have a puncher’s chance.

By Moby Grape

January 17, 2009 3:39 AM | Link to this

I’m thinking it’s past your bedtime, kirknga. Better luck tomorrow. *ExFan8

I’m thinking..if you’re an ex-fan what are you doing hanging around here bad-mouthing everything and everybody? Are you just that small-minded and mean, or do you have absolutely no life at all locked up in that basement? Or both ? LOL Looser. (yeah I know it’s misspelled-kind of a Braves’ boards tradition- though not really at this one).. Get a life dude.gotta be no fun being you if that’s the most fun you can have

By Bravo Nam

January 17, 2009 4:02 AM | Link to this

DOB et al

Couple of questions:

1). Is my assumption correct that the Bravos won’t lose their first round draft pick for signing Lowe? Will they lose any picks at all for signing him?

2). With Kawakami’s signing, does anyone think that there will be a noticeable difference in crowd numbers this year? Is the Japanese population in Big A significant enough to boost figures?

By Moby Grape

January 17, 2009 4:20 AM | Link to this

BravoNam

the Braves will lose their second round pick because of Lowe. If they signed another type A (unlikely) they would lose their third… etc etc etc (to quote the King of Siam)

By NickB

January 17, 2009 4:38 AM | Link to this

No kidding DOB, Tomei looks amazing!( especially at 45!!!) Bring on that kind of cougar action!

Oh and look at the newest Melvins album, Nude With Boots. Maybe the best album of 2008!

As far as the Braves are concerned, I am intrigued by FW’s statement that he has 5 or 6 deals on his desk to go through for an outfielder. I can think of 3 or 4 ( Swisher, Nady, Ankiel,Ludwick) But since we have claimed to not have interest in Dye, who are the 5th and 6th guys?

By Yars

January 17, 2009 7:56 AM | Link to this

I’m starting to respect Chipper more & more. He’s always been one of my all time favorite baseball players, (definitely in the top 5 along with T. Gwynn, Murphy, Sandberg, & Maddux) Him being honest about Smoltz, & now Andruw man I wish more players would tell it like it is, instead of being all politically correct like the no personality player Arod. Sometimes I can’t stand to watch Arod give an interview. Too phony. now playing: pork & beans by weezer.

By dap01

January 17, 2009 8:24 AM | Link to this

Al Gore, Internet, Global Warming, Science.

Things that make you go huh?

Go Braves!

By T to the D

January 17, 2009 8:56 AM | Link to this

Hey Logan, thanks for the link enjoyed the interview on a COLD Saturday morning.

By Neon Deion

January 17, 2009 9:19 AM | Link to this

Where KC at? I be waitin’ for Godot.

By Neon Deion

January 17, 2009 9:21 AM | Link to this

Where KC at? I be waitin’ for Godot.

By cvbraves

January 17, 2009 9:24 AM | Link to this

Looks like a trade has to happen, perhaps a two-for-one, or three-for-one for another bat and, maybe, a pitcher.

My guess at a current 25-man roster:

Bench: Norton, Prado, Infante, Blanco, Ross.

Position: C. Jones, Escobar, Johnson, Kotchman, McCann, Francouer, Anderson, Diaz.

Starting Pitchers: Lowe, Jurrjens, Vazquez, Kawakami, Glavine.

Bullpen: Gonzalez (only LH), Soriano, Moylan, Acosta, Bennett, Boyer, Capillo.

If this is so, no place already for B. Jones, Sammons, D. Hernandez, Jordan Schaffer. No place for Hanson, Logan, Morton, Reyes, Parr, O’Flaherty, Ridgeway, Stockman. No place for Ohman?, Andruw?, another bat.

Looks like some trades, waivers or designated for assignments coming up.

By Poorbrave

January 17, 2009 9:29 AM | Link to this

No!! to Glavine and Andrew Jones. Keep moving forward and don’t look back. Go Braves.

By Random

January 17, 2009 9:39 AM | Link to this

*uga-brave: *”never scene john malone at a braves game. i am not sure whether liberty media even realizes they own a team.

“at least liberty media did not pull the money off the board.

“i thought they would and i was wrong. they definetely have stayed out of the way.

“wren may have backed into his third or fourth choice but at least he made the team somewhat better.

“they have a puncher’s chance.”

Way to cowboy up. Seriously.

Many more of us could do much worse than look to you as a sterling example.

By TommyP

January 17, 2009 9:46 AM | Link to this

Spent a little while drinking coffee and going through some blog archives this Saturday morning. A few thoughts….

• Interesting when the “Smoltz/Clemens” article came out in the NY papers and Smoltz said he knew nothing of the article and never said a word resembling what was in the article. Is that right, John?

• DOB’s fixation on Peavy was a bit nauseating. Just go back and look at how many blog headlines included Jake. Think DOB wasn’t tipped off by someone in the front office late in September/early October that he would be a top trade target?

• I called for (and I think Shaun or Random did as well…can’t remember) a rotation that was deep in solid starters, not selling out for 1 big timer at the top. Pretty cool to see that is what happened.

• Found it hilarious to see the AJ Burnett support on a few blogs. Honestly, that would’ve made Wren a laughing-stock both when they signed him and when AJ went down with another injury. Of course, the Smoltz situation might still have made him a laughingstock with many. (I still believe there’s more to the Smoltz situation than we know) Obviously, Smoltz or his agent WAS talking to other teams the whole time.

Go back from time to time and re-read previous blogs. Fun to see where you were right and where you were wrong. Kind of like Mark Bradley’s article when he looks back on his hits and misses.

If Chipper says Andruw is still locked into the pull obsession, it’s probably best to look the other way other than a minor league contract.

Andruw no doubt has lost bat speed and running speed. If he’s still pulling everything and flailing wildly at low and away sliders, nothing will ever change with him.

LF? No way to Nady and would sure prefer someone other than Swisher. What’s Abreu’s demands down to?????? Lefty or no lefty, he’s always been a very professional hitter.

By Fat Albert (Andruw)

January 17, 2009 9:58 AM | Link to this

Hey, Hey, Hey … I’m ready to waddle into CF for the Braves. Pay no attention to the last 2 1/2 years of my career. Just think, the Braves could field the two worst hitting outfielders in the majors with me and Frenchy—how cool would that be? I’ve been saving my sugar cubes up so ol’ Donk will start me and get me back in the clean up spot.

I want a spot on th 40 man this week and some guaranteed $$$. My food bill is outrageous, so $22.1 Million is just not enough.

Hopefully, I can impede the progess of Schafer, Anderson and Blanco so that my damage to the Braves organization will be complete. Thank God I am a grinning idiot. I think you can sing that to a John Denver tune, Thank God I’m a Country Boy.

By raindawg722

January 17, 2009 10:08 AM | Link to this

I love how Boras said that 8 teams called “about” Andruw today. I’m sure. Seven of them called to tell Boras that he was a sly dog for fleecing the Dodgers and the other one was the Braves.

By Random

January 17, 2009 10:09 AM | Link to this

*uga-brave: *”never scene john malone at a braves game. i am not sure whether liberty media even realizes they own a team.

“at least liberty media did not pull the money off the board.

“i thought they would and i was wrong. they definetely have stayed out of the way.

“wren may have backed into his third or fourth choice but at least he made the team somewhat better.

“they have a puncher’s chance.”

Way to cowboy up. Seriously.

Many more of us could do much worse than look to you as a sterling example.

By Run Heap Run

January 17, 2009 10:10 AM | Link to this

Can’t get anything past our crack audience. Or our meth audience, either.

hahahahahaha that was funny.

And I just wanted to add that I love when someone calls Chipper for a quote. He’s brutally honest, he says stuff like one of us would say instead of the company line or the billionaire boys club line…I get the impression that, bling and all, he’s a very down to earth person.

By Range Factor

January 17, 2009 10:23 AM | Link to this

Andruw Jones makes Mickey Rourke look like a combination of Jude Law and Brad Pitt. Fortunately it’s not boxing and the Special Ed Class resembling Andruw gets to keep his shirt on. Damn!! Now I can’t get that image out of my mind!! I think the only thing grosser is watching the Curacao Cretin flail at breaking balls. Some of the funniest stuff on the Dish last year was listening to poor old Vince Scully complaining about Jones. Even the kindly Vince could not restrain himself in the presence of such mediocrity. Let’s definitely bring him back. We can watch him make those “patented” diving catches on balls that “good” center fielders catch at the knees. Yes Sir, Andruw Jones—Only In Atlanta. AND I’m Black so don’t go there.

By DAP

January 17, 2009 10:54 AM | Link to this

andruw may have lost bat speed, which would make the pull first mentality stupid, but he had that mentality in 2005, when he changed his stance and hit 51 dingers. the difference was he had balance he wasnt swinging at those low and away sliders anymore…he just needs to get balanced at the plate. (same for jeff)

By McFann O –[zzz]

January 17, 2009 11:00 AM | Link to this

Cozy B …for LF.. Eric Byrnes?

No…please: Not the Crash Test Dummy. 10 million? Zoiks!

“Byrnesy”? Sheesh…

By Wren Watch

January 17, 2009 11:02 AM | Link to this

As I’ve mentioned in the past, I’m an avid listener of XM Radio’s MLB Home Plate channel. This morning, January 16th, one of the guests was our very own Frank Wren. Here’s a summary of what he said:

• Outfielder Situation: when questioned on the search for an outfielder who can be productive at the plate, Wren assured everyone that the issue isn’t money. He said the Braves still have money and that right now they’re just sitting back and evaluating the market. He said there are 3-4 players out there on the free agent market that he’s interested in but that he also needed to evaluate some of the talent down on the farm. To me it sounded promising if you’re someone who thinks we need to pick up someone in thi department.

• Andruw Jones: while we’re on the topic of free agent outfielders, Wren was questioned about his interest in Andruw. He said the Braves needed to have some internal discussions on how he might fit into the picture. It didn’t sound promising at all. Can’t say I’m upset either.

• Jeff Francoeur: staying in the outfield, there was discussion of Frenchy’s past production and the outlook for this season. Wren stressed that most young ballplayers need 3-4 years to adjust to the major league setting offensively. He said both Frenchy and Casey Kotchman are at the point in their career where this year would be very telling of their future productiveness. Wren said Jeff has worked hard this winter and sounded optimistic that he’d turned around his attitude and improved at the plate.

• Tim Hudson: Wren indicated that he’s coming along nicely with his rehabilitation but that we shouldn’t expect to see him before August.

-Tommy Hanson: the hosts of the show pointed out that many are saying Hanson was the best pitcher in the Arizona Fall League. Wren agreed and said that the plan was to let him spend some time with the AAA Gwinnett Braves and possibly bring him up to the Big Show later in the season.

By Random

January 17, 2009 11:07 AM | Link to this

TommyP: “I called for (and I think Shaun or Random did as well…can’t remember) a rotation that was deep in solid starters, not selling out for 1 big timer at the top. Pretty cool to see that is what happened.”

Thanks — I wish I was that prescient (or smart, or lucky), but it was probably Shaun, or, even more likely, Lew.

“Interesting when the “Smoltz/Clemens” article came out in the NY papers and Smoltz said he knew nothing of the article and never said a word resembling what was in the article. Is that right, John?”

I don’t remember this article — do you have a link, or more info (subject, timeframe, specific source, etc)?

By KC

January 17, 2009 11:16 AM | Link to this

Why the resistance to Glavine?? If Glavine’s healthy, you don’t think he can be effecive as a FIFTH starter???? Jamie Moyer is 4 years older and was still very effective last year. Glavine is certainly cut from the same mold as Moyer.

The only downside is that he could get hurt… But who cares??? Between Hanson, Campillo,and Morton, we’ve got it covered.

By DAP

January 17, 2009 11:25 AM | Link to this

KC i think some people are ready to let one of the young guys cut their teeth over the course of a season, instead of in spot starts. sooner or later these guys are going to have to stick in the majors, and getting put in the 5th spot is a perfect chance for them to gain experience. thats probably the main resistance to glavine. we dont need him with 4 capable starters and 4 (at least) young guys ready to pitch in the 5th spot.

By rotty

January 17, 2009 11:25 AM | Link to this

Since we are in limbo for a while until they make a decision on AJ and LF here is a question for you DOB.

If by some happy miracle the Braves are in 2nd place come the trading deadline and very close (1-2 games back) and the Padres are in last place chasing a 100 lose season, do you think Jake would ask for a trade to ATL at the deadline and would Wren comply?

Now there will be a dozen teams plus that will want him but with his no trade clause it doesn’t matter. If the Braves look like winners again with a bright future they will look more appealing.

So would Wren go for it? He can always trade Vaz during the off season to clear payroll and a spot for Jake.

The rotation we have today is built to weather 162 games but apart from Lowe I don’t see them as dominating in Sept and the post season. Hudson could be back in Sept but I don’t think he will be in shape to really let it fly w/o risking another injury.

I know this is one of those if you won Powerball what would you buy first questions but heck its Saturday AM. :)

By Random

January 17, 2009 11:32 AM | Link to this

Sorry for the dupe post — wireless connectivity problems.

(I think it’s all these water pipes in the ceiling.)

By dap01

January 17, 2009 11:32 AM | Link to this

Is it me or does anyone else feel the same frustration when thinking of Francoeur as they do when thinking of Andruw’s stubborn unwillingness to admit to needing to change?

By Tomas

January 17, 2009 11:42 AM | Link to this

How much does Glavine want. If he wants Smoltz money he can leave, and I don’t think any team would give him that. If the Braves offer a guarantee’d 1.5 million, and another 2 million in incentives and he doesn’t take it, well then he can leave.

Bartolo Colon took a 1yr deal worth 1 million plus another 2 million in incentives. Freddy Garcia will take something similar if not less.

Mike Hampton took a 1yr deal worth 2 million + another 2 million in incentives.

Carl Pavano took a 1yr deal worth 1.5 million + another 5.3 million in incentives.

If Glavine thinks he deserves more at age 43-44, then he should leave.

By Frank

January 17, 2009 11:48 AM | Link to this

Heck KC…..Nolan Ryan pitched until he was….what 45 and the Rangers didn’t think about him getting hurt the last year or two or three of his career.

Or maybe they did….but it didn’t affect him being in their rotation the early nineties before he retired.

By Random

January 17, 2009 11:58 AM | Link to this

If you can bear to hear the truth you’ve spoken

Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,

Or watch the things you gave your life to broken,

And stoop and build ‘em up with wornout tools;

If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew

To serve your turn long after they are gone,

And so hold on when there is nothing in you

Except the Will which says to them: “Hold on”;

If you can fill the unforgiving minute

With sixty seconds’ worth of distance run –

Yours is the Earth and everything that’s in it,

And - which is more - you’ll be John Smoltz my son!

By mbatl

January 17, 2009 11:58 AM | Link to this

To me, signing Glavine is a luxury. If we can afford it and still get a solid bat and resign Ohman (or someone like him), I’m all for it. If not, I think Reyes, Morton or Campillo would give us about the same performance for no money.

(he could become more important if we have to trade one or more of those guys to obtain a bat)

I do not think he’ll sign for $1 or 2 mil like some are suggesting. I think he’ll want about $5 mil. For better or worse, there is a matter of pride (a big reason Smoltz left). And like Smoltz, I’m sure he feels that he isn’t spending all this time rehabbing for a lowball offer (by MLB standards).

By Random

January 17, 2009 12:02 PM | Link to this

KC*: *”Why the resistance to Glavine?? If Glavine’s healthy, you don’t think he can be effecive as a FIFTH starter???? Jamie Moyer is 4 years older and was still very effective last year. Glavine is certainly cut from the same mold as Moyer.

“The only downside is that he could get hurt… But who cares??? Between Hanson, Campillo,and Morton, we’ve got it covered.”

Let’s all of us remember this comment, and see what tune KC’s singin’ if Glavine signs with another team.

;->

By Cozy B

January 17, 2009 12:04 PM | Link to this

geeze, Byrnesy is a guy who has a career +.700 OPS, career .260 who would probably hit 20-30 dingers…he’d be a valuable piece to our offense being right handed. Arizona has a budgeted payroll too who would love to dump his salary for mid level prospect. And I caught a foul ball from him too

By DAP

January 17, 2009 12:04 PM | Link to this

the problem with bringing glavine back, is what if no one in the rotation misses a start? its very unlikely, but its possible that they will all make all of thier starts, and morton, jojo, hansen ect. wont get a chance at any point in 2009 to crack the rotation. i think we all want them to get a chance to do that.

i would be nice to have glavine, but not at the expense of blocking the young guys.

By DAP

January 17, 2009 12:12 PM | Link to this

eric byrnes wouldnt be a terrible peice for this team, but he is making $11mil in 2009 and in 2010. i think its to much for him. with burell signing for $8mil per this offseason, byrnes’ contract is above market value for him. the dbacks would have to eat some salary.

By David O'Brien

January 17, 2009 12:16 PM | Link to this

Danko, good to hear you enjoyed the DBT show. They had a strong show here at Tavernacle with The Hold Steady a couple months ago. But then, I don’t think I’ve ever seen anything but a strong show from the Truckers.

By David O'Brien

January 17, 2009 12:29 PM | Link to this

Roddy, that’s so hypothetical, I don’t even want to respond….

Raindawg, I do know the Marlins are one of those teams with some interest in Andruw. And given his friendship with manager Fredi G., and the fact that Andruw has a condo in Miami Beach … you never know….

Best movie (almost) no one saw in 2008 (or it might’ve been 2007?): Shotgun Stories. It’s about the sons of two warring sets of south Arkansas brothers with the same father, one a trio of brothers that’s dirt-poor, honorable … and and tough as all hell. Drive-By Truckers should’ve done the soundtrack to this; the story is like a song by the group.

Folks, it’s a terrific movie that’s better than 99 percent of the stuff that makes money. Seriously. Rent it.

By David O'Brien

January 17, 2009 12:31 PM | Link to this

Bravo Nam, they lose a second-round pick.

And from what I’m told, there could be quite a few Japanese fans there. How many, I don’t know. Maybe hundreds? I guess after his first few starts, it’ll depend somewhat on how well he’s pitching, the subsequent number who turn out to see him.

By gabeaux

January 17, 2009 12:43 PM | Link to this

His batting average went down in direct proportion to his gain in weight. Now, at 250 pounds, the only way he can cover center field is with his shadow. If he gets a little self discipline, he’ll be a steal. Until then, he’s looking for his next meal.

By JC from UT

January 17, 2009 12:44 PM | Link to this

DOB: do you think there is any chance Brandon Jones could be a platoon partner with either Diaz or Francouer? He seemed to have put up good numbers before he injured his shoulder. Does he have a future in Atlanta or has BC and FW soured on him?

By Salty Dawg

January 17, 2009 12:53 PM | Link to this

DAP

the problem with bringing glavine back, is what if no one in the rotation misses a start? its very unlikely, but its possible that they will all make all of thier starts, and morton, jojo, hansen ect. wont get a chance at any point in 2009 to crack the rotation. i think we all want them to get a chance to do that.

i would be nice to have glavine, but not at the expense of blocking the young guys.

On the other side of that argument, it would be nice to have an experienced Glavine in the rotation and give the younger guys more time to develop. That is assuming Glavine can come back and pitch well. That is also assuming that if one of the young guns starts the season while Glavine is still rehabbing and does very well that they would keep their spot rather than bringing Glavine back into the rotation. I haven’t heard when Glavine is expected back, but it would be a nice insurance policy in case someone is struggling or gets hurt early on. Guess the way I look at it is that a little more time in the minors can only help. My concern would be that Tommy comes back and doesn’t have the stuff, but Cox leaves him in the rotation anyway. We all know how he is about keeping veteran players in even when they obviously don’t need to be (see Andruw Jones).

By MARK

January 17, 2009 1:50 PM | Link to this

it really is stunning that a team is so sure that a player is finished that they agree to eat 21 million bucks (really 36 million) that they(dodgers )drop him ASAP..there must be more to this?Something we haven’t heard?It has to be something we don’t know about…..I mean this is a player that won 10 straight gold gloves in center fiels and just 3 seasons ago slammed 51 Dingers…to add to thar no team is busting down the doors here to risk even 400.000….VERY STRANGE….does he look that bad…or what is it??????

By MARK

January 17, 2009 1:57 PM | Link to this

I think back long time back sluggers like Harmon Killebrew very low avg hitter but hit with power and played good defence,I cant remember that Reds player that hit like .199 but hit a bunch of homers and played good defence,,,

By THE BEAR

January 17, 2009 2:12 PM | Link to this

The very last thing I am going to worry about is Tom Glavine signing with another team. He has not pitched well since his last month with the Mets. I don’t think he has anything left in the tank. It is time for him to retire and look forward to joining the Hall of Fame with Maddux.

And the Braves are not exactly short of good pitchers for a change. As for those who keep insisting on the Braves trading for another pitcher I wonder where you plan to use him. Do you seriously think an expensive arm should be assigned to the fifth slot?

By BT

January 17, 2009 2:28 PM | Link to this

Mark, were you talking about Ted Klusewski with the Reds?

By Danko

January 17, 2009 2:41 PM | Link to this

DOB, I hated to miss that Tabernacle show with the Hold Steady. Unfortunately, I was down in Jacksonville watching the debacle that was this year’s Ga/Florida footbal game. Great encore last night with Centromatic and DBT on stage - cool duet with Will Johnson and Shonna on Home Field Advantage. I’m headed back tonight for the last show here in the classic city. 3 nights of rock sure does help make up for losing Smoltzy, Moreno, Stafford, and Asher.

By MacLee31

January 17, 2009 2:48 PM | Link to this

DOB Before the Lowe signing, you said the Braves should sign Orlando Hudson and Adam Dunn and then trade Kelly Johnson for another pitcher. Now that there is no need for another starter and Dunn is still demanding too much, do you think the Braves would consider signing Hudson and moving Johnson to left? The move would not address the need for another power hitter, but it would provide an upgrade in defense not only at second, but possibly in left where Johnson would fair better than the likes of Dun and Abreu.

Thanks!

By Navigator

January 17, 2009 3:09 PM | Link to this

We will soon know how bad the Braves really are. Signing a 275 lb. Andruw Jones is an admission that they no longer have quality people in the administration. The fact that an 80 year old manager is still here really is starting to make a case for the ineptitude of the management, as well.

By David O'Brien

January 17, 2009 3:16 PM | Link to this

JC from UT: I do think Brandon Jones could work his way into the mix with a great spring. He’s one of those Wren’s referring to when he says they’re going to evaluate some young players.

By BravesFanInRockies

January 17, 2009 3:16 PM | Link to this

Wren Watch,

Thanks for the info on the interview.

Sounds to me as if Wren is willing to wait, perhaps until pitchers and catchers report, to see how far the market might drop for a guy like Abreu or Dunn or Edmonds/Griffey. On MLB Network’s Hot Stove show last night, the talk was that some of the remaining FAs may be wise to take a one-year deal now and plan to hit the market again at the end of the season when (maybe) the economy will have rebounded.

Also sounds like Wren may be willing to give Brandon Jones or Jason Perry a chance to win a job in the spring, just in case the team decides to not go outside the organization for a LF.

Speaking of the economy, you wonder if it’s potentially affecting not just hitters, but guys like Ohman and Beimel. Could be one or the other will be available on a 2-3 year deal for $2mm/year, which may be half as much as they were expecting.

Seems like this offseason, players who’ve waited around for a “better deal” may get the shaft.

By Plate Appearance

January 17, 2009 3:22 PM | Link to this

WHY HUDSON?

Why sign Orlando Hudson when you’ve got Martin Prado, who looks to be a far better offensive player than Hudson and is still very good defensively?

I like Prado at 2B.

I’d also like to see the Braves give Andruw another shot, instead of looking to add yet another outfielder other than Andruw.

After a year of failure, you’ve got to believe that Andruw’s going to be much more open to make the necessary hitting adjustments and report in better shape.

By Adairsville Dawg

January 17, 2009 3:29 PM | Link to this

Andrew Jones is now the biggest BARGAIN in baseball! He’s 31 and still in his physical prime as a player. The following will help him through his “mental” troubles as well.

1. Sign his fat a* to a Minor League Contract ASAP.
2. Groom is fat a* for Right Field.
3. Shafer to Center, Frenchy and Diaz platoon in left (yes, I know they both hit right handed).
4. Let Terry Pendleton be in total charge of his fat a* before and during Spring Training. Do not allow his fat a* to cry to Bobby or to the media.
5. Pendleton will make his fat a* hit 10,000 fastballs to right field which his what his fat a* needs.
6. Let his fat a* watch his buddies travel north to Atlanta after Spring Training while his fat a* gets on the bus headed for Jackson.
7. Call his fat a* up to Atlanta in late April
8. Open the Gold Club back up for his fat a* (Especially the $135 up stairs rooms).
9. Send his fat a* back down every time he pulls a fastball during a game.
10. His fat a* will make the mid summer all-star game (write in).

5-1-09 line up: 2B. Johnson SS. Escobar C. McCann 3B. C Jones
LF. Francoeur/Diaz 1B. Kotchman RF. A. Jones CF. Shaffer P. Finally, we have more than enough.

By BravesFanInRockies

January 17, 2009 3:37 PM | Link to this

After a year of failure, you’ve got to believe that Andruw’s going to be much more open to make the necessary hitting adjustments and report in better shape. Plate Appearance

Maybe. But from what Chipper’s saying after watching Andruw, maybe not.

It’s been said by others here before (and maybe even me), the worry is that the Braves will invite Andruw to camp, he’ll do OK in March, win a roster spot, and Bobby will run him out there even if he’s awful.

Better to cut the cord entirely and make him somebody else’s reclamation project.

I’m also wondering how badly he’d have to do if he’s brought back and he’s a bust before the Braves would release him. We all know how Bobby’s intense loyalty to players can cloud his judgment.

Some denizens seem to have little problem with the way Andruw performed in 2007. They see 26 HR, 94 RBI and ignore the rest of his offensive game, which was absolutely abysmal I have a lot of problem giving a .222/.311/.413 player a lot of at bats.

To paraphrase Chipper, we’d lose an Andruw, gain an Andruw. Except it would be the same guy.

By Ron Reed

January 17, 2009 3:40 PM | Link to this

I agree with the Adairsville Dawg. Hitting rock bottom might be the only thing that can get Andruw back to the top. Hopefully TP will have free reign and get AJ back to basics physically. Likewise, mentally by following Willie May’s advice- “The best way to hit a curve ball is to hit the fast ball first”.

I think Andruw will be MLB’s feel good story of 2009. Sorry Dodgers!

By Reality

January 17, 2009 3:47 PM | Link to this

“WHY HUDSON?”

Good question. Why are people here wanting the Braves to waste money on something they don’t need. They already have a good starting second baseman and two good backups.

“Why sign Orlando Hudson when you’ve got Martin Prado, who looks to be a far better offensive player than Hudson and is still very good defensively?”

First off, Prado isn’t a better hitter than Hudson. Hudson ain’t great, and certainly his numbers are desert-inflated in Arizona, but he is still better than Prado.

Prado defensively at second base for Braves in 2008:

-0.7 ErrR

-2.1 UZR

-14.7 UZR/150

(This is coming off off his -55.4 UZR/150 in 2006 and -11.8 UZR/150 in 2007.)

Prado is a bad defender. Kelly Johnson ain’t good defender neither (-8.4 UZR/150), but Johnson being bad does not make Prado good. You take a small defensive loss with either playing second; but Johnson is a much better hitter.

“I like Prado at 2B.”

I like Johnson at 2B and a real left fielder in left.

By Vinings

January 17, 2009 3:51 PM | Link to this

From Center to Right field. Great idea!

If Barry Bonds can do it with Clears and Creams, Surely Andruw can do it with Beers and Cuisines.

By BravesFanInRockies

January 17, 2009 3:58 PM | Link to this

Interesting nugget in a New York Times article about the Yanks shopping Swisher and Nady:

Swisher profiles better as the kind of player the Yankees seek for their lineup. He saw an average of 4.53 pitches per plate appearance last season, leading the major leagues in that category. Nady averaged 3.65 pitches per plate appearance. Among Yankees, only Robinson Canó (3.35 pitches) was worse.

With that kind of patience, Swisher could fit in a lot of places in the lineup.

Nady looks like a slightly better version of Frenchy.

By Lew

January 17, 2009 4:01 PM | Link to this

Random and TommyP-Can’t claim prescience- maybe luck-but I did call the shot on this one. I said from the beginning I’d go for Vasquez and Lowe, based on our need for innings eating pitchers and it happened just that way.

I think we’ll see a considerably better performance by the rotation this season. There shouldn’t be many 3-4 inning starts this time around and it should lead to a much more effective pen,as well. Now for that power hitting outfielder…….I won’t even venture a guess on that one-way too many variables in the equation and I was never good at algebra.

By keylargo

January 17, 2009 4:06 PM | Link to this

After a year of failure, you’ve got to believe that Andruw’s going to be much more open to make the necessary hitting adjustments and report in better shape. PlateAppearance

Yes, that $22 million separation package from the Dodgers really got Jones’ attention. He and TP will wear out the pitching machine now that AJ is motivated.

Just sign him for the minimum with a bunch of incentive clauses. Blog

Andrew Jones is now the biggest BARGAIN in baseball! He’s 31 and still in his physical prime as a player. AdairsvilleDawg

Yeah, at 256 he has a weight advantage on all other free agents. The girls at the Gold Club supposedly call him PUFFY DADDY

Yes, make sure those $100,000 incentives look lucrative to a guy who has made $36 million in the last two years. He’ll stay home from the Gold Club for sure so he can do his running at 7 am with those incentives in place.

By dogsbrekky

January 17, 2009 4:12 PM | Link to this

* BravesFanInRockies *

Yankees papers up here in nose-bleed city still think “I am gonna spend a Billion dollars on squat” Brian Cashout is a good GM

Guy is a joke as was the Swisher signing

I say f*** Swisher, useless juiced up and more useless now, lets have the Yanks sit with both X Man and Swisher until they choke on their overpaid line-up

By Efrim

January 17, 2009 4:17 PM | Link to this

BravesFanInRockies

I agree about Nady. Not a huge fan, especially if we have to give up a significant prospect. Looking at all of the options, it’s no wonder Frank Wren wants to wait this one out. That said, the Braves really can’t afford to go into the season with the outfield as currently constructed.

By bgvt

January 17, 2009 4:32 PM | Link to this

Tomas:

On how much is Glavine worth? You cite several players who are quite a few years away from the last time they pitched a full and productive season:

Pavano — 2004, 222 IP, 18-8, 3.00 ERA but only 145 IP since 2004

Hampton — 2004, 172 IP, 13-9, 4.28 ERA, we know about 2005-08

Colon — 2005, 222 IP, 21-8, 3.48, but 11-15 with an ERA > 5 in the last three years

Garcia — 2006, 216 IP, 17-9, 4.53 but only 73 IP since 2006

While Glavine is returning from surgery, he was a productive pitcher in 2007 so he isn’t quite the reclamation project of a Pavano or Colon. I would take Glavine at his word: first, he wants to convince himself that he can come back as a productive pitcher; then, he will talk to the Braves about a major league contract that will bring him back to Atlanta. If that plan fails to get a reasonable contract, then he will look talk to other teams.

The price tag on a reasonable contract depends heavily on when he would make his first start. Assuming that he could be ready to pitch in April (a HUGE assumption) and can show that he is healthy in some workouts, I expect that your “$2 million” contract is far below what he is worth. I might guess that it would start with $2 million guaranteed with pretty strong incentives based on his durability over the course of the year — maxing out somewhere well over $5 million. Or, a higher guarantee with fewer IP based incentives.

If Glavine can get healthy, he could be a great addition to the rotation over the 162 game season. Unfortunately, like a previous comment today, I’m scared that the Braves are building a rotation that is good for the long haul but not flashy enough at the top to get it done in the playoffs (if the team somehow makes the playoffs).

For the playoffs, the hope would be: (A) Hudson comes back relatively strong by October; and (B) Jurrjens takes a big step forward this year. Add Lowe and one of the other starters (Glavine or Kawakami) and it might be a good post-season rotation. While either Hudson coming back strong or Jurrjens taking a big step forward might well happen, the Braves will be really fortunate if both things happen. Of course, they will only be in the playoffs if a number of things fall in place for them this year.

By Plate Appearance

January 17, 2009 4:33 PM | Link to this

PRADO VS. HUDSON 2008 HITTING STATS

The following stats reflect average, on base percentage, and slugging percentage:

Hudson: 2008 .305 .367 .450

Prado: 2008 .320 .377 .461

Prado’s only 24, while Hudson’s 30.

Martin also plays multiple positions — 3B, 1B, 2B, LF, and SS in 2008, while Hudson’s played exclusively at 2B his entire career.

By mbatl

January 17, 2009 4:39 PM | Link to this

Nady is a problem because he’d only be here for one year. Who’s gonna play LF in 2010? (and no, I don’t think Heyward will be starting then)

If it was just money, a 1-year deal for Nady would be okay. But I don’t see spending $6-7 mil, plus trading a couple of good pieces (I’m guessing it would take something like Prado and Acosta, plus a minor-league pitcher) to get him, and then have the same drill next year.

I’d rather go after Swisher… at least he’ll be here a few years, and can play multiple positions. He’s got his flaws, but don’t they all?

That said, I have a feeling we’ll see something unexpected from the Braves in filling the LF need.

By Reality

January 17, 2009 4:42 PM | Link to this

“PRADO VS. HUDSON 2008 HITTING STATS”

But 2008, really August 2008, is the only time Prado has really done anything. Look at his major league numbers in 2006 or 2007 or his minor league numbers (like that .393 career minor league slugging percentage.)

By Danga

January 17, 2009 5:07 PM | Link to this

You can’t ignore Hudson’s defensive prowess either. You have to think that a rotation that primarily pitches to contact would thrive with an up the middle combo of Escobar and Hudson. With that kind of range up the middle you could just move Chipper to short fielder or very, very deep fielder when Vazquez pitches.

By Efrim

January 17, 2009 5:15 PM | Link to this

mbatl

Good point at 4:39. Braves will just have to look for another solution after 2009 if they trade for Nady. Heyward probably wouldn’t be ready until later in the season, at the earliest. My guess is he is the starting LF or RF in spring training 2011. But back to the Nady/Swisher thing, Swisher makes more sense to me.

By KC

January 17, 2009 5:25 PM | Link to this

mbatkl: Heyward may well be with the team in 2010, depending on what he does this year. I heard an interview with Schuerholz over the winter in which he seemed to think Heyward might very well make his ML debut this year. I don’t think he was suggesting that he would work his way into the lineup this year… just that he’d get his feet wet this year.

He’s not on the 40-man roster right now, but then, neither is Tommy Hanson, and we all know he’ll probably get his first taste of the big leagues this year.

If Heyward isn’t entirely ready in 2010, he won’t be far off. I don’t think the Braves would be reticent to acquire a 1-year fix for LF, knowing that Heyward is on the horizon. In fact, I think they’d prefer a 1-year fix to anyone they’d have to sign for 3-4 years.

The problem is that you can’t give up too much for a 1-year rental, and the Yankees don’t seem like highly motivated sellers when it comes to Nady.

It seems like K.C.’s Jose Guillen would be a good option. Great right-handed power bat, and wouldn’t be anywhere near as expensive (in terms of talent) as trading for someone like J.Dye.

The resistance there is probably his salary (12 million in 08). The Braves might be able to get the Royals to eat a bit of that in a trade though. Oh well… I guess they have their reasons.

By Steve from OH

January 17, 2009 5:25 PM | Link to this

Efrim, mbatl, I agree that Nady doesn’t make much sense, statistically or contractually. I like Swisher much better, but I hope that FW can pull a cleanup hitter out of his arse sometime before ST. That’s really what we need, and I’m sure Swisher quite fits that category. I feel that he’ll be a good offensive player in ‘09 (esp. in the NL), but I’m not sure his the big cleanup-type bat we need.

But miles better than Blanco/Diaz, anyway. We all can take solace in that, lol.

By MacLee31

January 17, 2009 5:25 PM | Link to this

Plate Appearance WHY HUDSON?

Martin Prado is a great utility player, but is not a starter on a playoff team. Just because a player can hit .320 coming off the bench and starting a game once a week does not mean he can do it over the course of 500 at bats.

Ideally, the Braves sign Dunn and you deal with the defense because of the power numbers he puts up. That said, Dunn is still asking for $14 mil a year so you look at other options, one of which would be to sign Hudson. Are his power numbers as good as the outfield options? No. Is he a good hitter? Yes. Will he solidify our infield defense as one of the best in the majors? Most definitely. For a team build like the Braves,whose pitchers are contact guys, defense is going to be a major factor. By September, the Braves hope to have a rotation that will include Lowe, Hudson and Jurrjens, all of whom are ground ball pitchers.

And while Johnson will not improve the Braves left field defense, he will not hurt it the way Dunn, Abreu or Anderson might.

By David O'Brien

January 17, 2009 6:09 PM | Link to this

KC, Braves aren’t interested in Guillen, who hasn’t performed up to his contract. He’s on wrong side of 30 for a guy making that kind of dough and putting up a .300 or lower OBP in two of the past three seasons. And that’s not even mentioning the behavior stuff from his past. Just purely on performance, he’s not worth the cash he’s making….

Going to see what should be a GREAT SHOW tonight at The EARL — Los Campesinos (cool band from Wales) with a Jersey punk-rock opening act, Titus Andronicus, that’s getting terrific reviews for its recently released CD.

By Wayne in Utah

January 17, 2009 6:20 PM | Link to this

Guys, I like the idea of sitting it out for a while, and seeing what develops for the outfield needs. I think AJ could be an invitee, if he will swallow some pride and sign a minor league contract, but he needs to be on a real short leash.

Also, I think that there are still going to be some bats available in another 4-6 weeks. And they are going to get cheaper. That would maybe include Nady/Swisher or Ankiel. Those 3 are my first choices, but I would be OK with an Edmonds, Junior or Abreu, if the price is right.

Heck, in a perfect world, Frenchy show signs of coming around, Schafer kills it in the spring, and we can run our Diaz/BJones platoon out there.

I think Kotchman will improve, after the challenges he faced last summer after coming over.

OK, I am doing my best imitation of KC. How am I doing?

:-)

By Wayne in Utah

January 17, 2009 6:20 PM | Link to this

I would also be OK with signing Orlando Hudson, if the price was right.

By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)

January 17, 2009 6:44 PM | Link to this

Martin Prado will never be much more than a back up utility infielder at best. His glove work is good but not spectacular.

Please allow me to spell out R-E-A-L-T-Y in it’s true form.

Six minor league seasons, one thousand nine hundred and twenty at bats, F-I-F-T-E-E-N HR’s. Martin Prado ain’t gonna be an everyday player. Sorry buddy. Reality sucks.

By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)

January 17, 2009 7:06 PM | Link to this

I would also be OK with signing Orlando Hudson, if the price was right.

By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)

January 17, 2009 6:44 PM | Link to this

Martin Prado will never be much more than a back up utility infielder at best. His glove work is good but not spectacular.

Please allow me to spell out R-E-A-L-I-T-Y in it’s true form.

Six minor league seasons, one thousand nine hundred and twenty at bats, F-I-F-T-E-E-N HR’s. Martin Prado ain’t gonna be an everyday player. Sorry buddy. Reality sucks.

By nolie

January 17, 2009 7:32 PM | Link to this

Also sounds like Wren may be willing to give Brandon Jones or Jason Perry a chance to win a job in the spring, just in case the team decides to not go outside the organization for a LF. BFIR

I might be wrong, but I thought I read somewhere that they released Perry??

By Andy K.

January 17, 2009 7:34 PM | Link to this

Coach You don’t have to hit homeruns all the time to be an everyday player, let alone a 2B. There’s tons of players that don’t have alot of power. I’m sure if Prado were out there a whole seaon he’d have somewhere from 6-12 homers. Omar Vizquel was never a big power guy. Orlando Hudson isn’t. Heck, Kelly Johnson isn’t even a power guy! Chicks dig the long ball, but power ain’t all that.

By Andy K.

January 17, 2009 7:40 PM | Link to this

nolie I think he’s going under the impression that Perry would get an invitation to Spring Training. And although I like Perry, he’s another lef-handed hitter, like B. jones, and I just don’t think Cox and Wren really want another lefty in the lineup. I think they hope for a power-hitting righty to place between Chipper and McCann.

By Andy K.

January 17, 2009 7:53 PM | Link to this

I just listened to the Andruw Jones radio interview, and I think in regards to the questions, it was a pretty good interview. I also think Andruw’s answers were passable, providing you could make them out. Obviously he can’t say some things about the Braves, because theres chances he could sign with another team. It sounded like he wants to come back though, and he misses the team. HE NEVER SAYS HE WON’T ACCEPT A MINOR LEAGUE CONTRACT. Now, I think the quality of the interview was so poor because it sounds like poor Andruw is sick. He’s continuously coughing and trying to clear his throat throughout the whole interview, with a froggy voice, so he’s probably ill. Because even though his English isn’t 100%, he never sounded like he did there.

By Andy K.

January 17, 2009 7:54 PM | Link to this

My bad, he does say no minor league deal or “Probably not…” at the very end of the interview.

By keylargo

January 17, 2009 8:11 PM | Link to this

Nolie, MLB.com says Jason Perry is “signed” but he is not on the 40 man roster. Take that for what it’s worth.

By Lew

January 17, 2009 8:21 PM | Link to this

Talked to a friend of mine who is both a Doctor and a Phillies’ Fan last night. I asked him about Utley’ return from hip surgery. He says no way Utley comes back before the end of June and probably after the All Star break. He claims all the talk about him returning to open the season is nothing but wishful thinking.

I’m just not seeing the Phillies being the same team with Burrell leaving and being replaced by Ibanez, Romero missing from the bullpen for 50 games and Utley missing half the season.

They’d better hope 46 year old Jaime Moyer and Lidge have dream seasons again.

By Steve from OH

January 17, 2009 8:40 PM | Link to this

Lew—if it’s a labral injury, that sounds about right. Which is also why I’m so skeptical about Smoltz.

By Lew

January 17, 2009 8:51 PM | Link to this

Steve-To hear Phillies’ fans (and even Utley) talk about it, he’ll be back for Spring Training. I’m just not seeing the Phillies as defending their title this year. Real glad they didn’t get Lowe, either.

Ever get into Zodiac Mindwarp? How’s that for an obscure band?

By Steve from OH

January 17, 2009 9:02 PM | Link to this

Lew, I’d be very surprised if he made it back for ST, based on conversations I’ve had with physicians about labral injuries. But ya never know, Utley is a world-class athlete, so he really doesn’t fit the description of a “typical patient.” I’d guess 5-6 months.

Never even remotely heard of Zodiac Mindwarp. Checking them out shortly…

By Tomas

January 17, 2009 9:12 PM | Link to this

bgvt,

I know Glavine has been a great pitcher throughout his career, but he is what 43-44 years old. Yes he has what 305 wins, but at this point of his career he won’t be more than a 5th starter, and frankly he doesn’t deserve to be paid more than Bartolo Colon, Freddy Garcia, Mike Hampton, and Carl Pavano. If they stay healthy, and Glavine stays healthy, I bet those guys would be more productive and they are in similar circumstances or even better than Glavine.

Out of respect I think the Braves should offer him a contract, but they don’t need too. They have Jorge Campillo, Charlie Morton, Tommy Hanson, and Jo-jo Reyes. But Glavine does provide a veteran presence and would help the young guys, specially now that Smoltz has left. And if he doesn’t stay healthy it really doesn’t matter with all the depth they have. So really how much would you offer him. Personally I would offer him the exact same contract Mike Hampton took, not a cent more, a guarantee’d 2 million + another 2 in incentives.

To me age is the most important thing. He is just old, and thats the reason the Braves didn’t won last year because they relied too much on old starting pitchers. And what do old pitcher do? they throw softer, less innings, and get injured much more often

By nolie

January 17, 2009 9:47 PM | Link to this

Efrim, mbatl, I agree that Nady doesn’t make much sense, statistically or contractually. I like Swisher much better, Steve Ohio

It boggles my mind how anyone would want to go into a season depending on two corner OFers who are both coming off of absolutely horrendous seasons. What? You think the Braves’ luch has been running that good lately? LOL.

I could live with the Swish if he hadn’t hit sooo pooorly in such a gooood hitters park last season. I’m not even saying that he won’t bounce back, but to trade anyone even remotely decent and then make your season depend on whether or not he can do so is kinda foolish IMO.

By nolie

January 17, 2009 9:51 PM | Link to this

Nolie, MLB.com says Jason Perry is “signed” but he is not on the 40 man roster. Take that for what it’s worth. Key Largo

ok thanks. I am probably misremembering something. Happens when you get old. LOL

By keylargo

January 17, 2009 9:57 PM | Link to this

Tomas - I don’t know and don’t think anyone really knows about Glavine this year but I do have an observation from watching him 20 or whatever years.

He has never tried to be an overpowering pitcher. His style today is what it was when he started. He never had an arm problem until this one and he is a professional pitcher, unlike AJ who is just completely undisciplined in every phase of his life.

I bet Tom Glavine comes back and pitches just like he did in 2007. I bet he shows up in top condition and looks like he did in the 90’s. Why? Because he wants to go out a winner in his adopted hometown.

Maybe he fails, but if he does it will be because his body was through, not because he was not prepared.

Just a hopeful prediction based on nothing more than being a Braves’ fan, but I hope he goes 150 innings and wins 10/12 games.

By Casey Hodges

January 17, 2009 10:01 PM | Link to this

Of course, Andrew was money until his last year with the Braves, and he basically died. His fall was more meteoric than his rise, and I simply cannot see him becoming even a serviceable hitter after having the worst batting average by far of any player with his amount of at-bats and stature, in the entire Majors! With this team, and franchise for that matter, in a semi-rebuilding mode, we simply cannot afford a 5 strike-out game from the chubby one. Look elsewhere, Wren. The sentiment in Atlanta about you is poor to put it mildly. Get a proven bat.

By Steve from OH

January 17, 2009 10:09 PM | Link to this

nolie, I’m re-reading my last post and it should’ve read that I’m not quite sure that he’s the cleanup type bat we need. That obviously changes the context of my post and leads to some confusion, lol.

The reason I prefer Swisher to Nady is that while Nady is a known quantity, he’s known to be mediocre, and I’m not ok with that. Acquiring him won’t put us over the top in all likelihood (and neither will Swisher if he plays like he did last year, but I digress). So in my estimation, that leaves two options: trade for a known quantity that is known to be better, or, if you can’t find it or don’t want to pay the price, you take the upside play, which I think Swisher is. If we trade for Swish and he busts, we’re in the same spot as we are with Nady, standings-wise. Swish has posted a few pretty nice seasons in his short career, and it appears that last season was partly due to bad luck, as evidenced by his 20 points below career average BABIP (sorry, Lew).

But you know what? You can easily make a case for Nady, given a more favorable one-year contract (if he busts; if Swish busts we’re stuck with him) and a slightly higher career SLG than Swish. And you can make a case for Swish based on OBP and a longer-term contract, if you want to hold onto him (whereas Nady is gone after one season). Just because I say I prefer Swisher doesn’t mean I think he’s the piece that we’re missing in order to get into the playoffs. I think that that piece might be Ludwick, Dunn, or the like (hopefully someone that we all don’t see coming).

But you make a good point that we can’t rely on Frenchy and Swisher to rebound, and I think Nady falls in that category in that we can’t reasonably expect him to put up the numbers he did this season next season. Can’t see it happening (there goes BABIP again, lol).

And yes, for some strange reason, I do think Frenchy will rebound in ‘09, though I can’t objectively support that statement at all. Maybe it’s just a fool’s dream…

By nolie

January 17, 2009 10:40 PM | Link to this

Steve

Not picking on you. I usually agree with your posts at least somewhat, and even when I don’t, you’re one of the guys who’s opinion I like to be aware of.

I’m just not a Swish fan (pun intended). I’ve said B4 that I just can’t get thrilled about a guy with a .240something BA and that many Ks, cause IMO his OBP and Sl% just aren’t good enough to make up for it. I can accept Dunn (barely) but not the Swish all that much. Sorry, I guess I’m just too damned old, no matter how much of an OBP fan I am. LOL

I do think both of them will likely bounce back to some extent-after all they have Mr. Regression-To-The-Mean on their side, but even at their best I’m not that happy about having both of them in the same lineup

By ncgary

January 17, 2009 10:44 PM | Link to this

thanks for the format change. griffey jr, might be the smartest move out of whats left for left. diaz griffey and 1 less reliever this year??

By nolie

January 17, 2009 10:53 PM | Link to this

Another point I forget to mention, The correlation between 2007 and 2008 in BABIP was only 28% according to what I’ve read. For whatever reason that is whether adjustment/counter-adjustment or mostly just randomness I hesitate to rely too much on a stat that wobbles around that much. Looks kinda lonely down there at the bottom of the following list. No other stat seems to wanna get close to it. LOL

Strikeout/AB .7918

Walk/PA .6688

Homeruns/AB .7270

BABIP .282

By Steve from OH

January 17, 2009 11:04 PM | Link to this

nolie, I agree that an outfield of Francoeur and Swisher likely won’t strike fear into the hearts of opposing pitchers. I don’t think that Swisher is the piece we need, and I’m not a huge fan, I just like him more than Nady, that’s all. Like I said, I think he’ll be good (or at least average) in ‘09, but he’s not the cleanup bat we need, and he’s probably not going to give us the push over the cliff we need to get to October. But if it comes down to him vs. Nady, I take Swisher. If it comes down to either of them vs. Blanco, I’d take either of them, lol.

I hope Frank’s got one last good deal in him this offseason…

By Steve from OH

January 17, 2009 11:29 PM | Link to this

nolie, you got a link for that last post? I’d like to peruse the information. You’re correct on hitter BABIP, it’s less informative than pitcher BABIP. Or, I should say, hitters tend to establish their own personal averages, whereas pitchers tend to regress to a league average, if I’m not mistaken. Like, for instance, when you look at Swisher’s BABIP, it may be less informative as an indicator of his 2009 performance than looking at, say, Javier Vazquez’s .328 BABIP, or almost 40 points above average. If you look at Vazquez’s career #’s, the seasons in which he posted league-average BABIPs, his ERA was typically sub 3.7-3.5. Which is good, especially since our defense will likely be pretty good, although I believe recent studies have shown that pitchers do have some degree of control on BIP, contrary to previous thought. I’m kinda goin’ off the cuff here, so if I’m wrong, correct me please.

By THE BEAR

January 17, 2009 11:39 PM | Link to this

The idea of Swisher solving Atlanta’s problem of needing a bat between Chipper and Mac is a joke. I’d much rather see Kelly Johnson in that spot than I would Swisher. The man hit .219 last year. That is not Clean-up material.

If our first baseman comes through as many expect we may have our clean up hitter already on the team. I think Kotchman is going to turn in a fine year as I think KJ will also.

By shawn

January 17, 2009 11:55 PM | Link to this

diaz/griffey and rookie/ edmonds as LF and CF platoons. Ease in the rooks and have great bench when the other is starting and trade no one to get them….throw in AJ if he makes the cut

By Fluff----------

January 18, 2009 12:02 AM | Link to this

the future is looking very bright for the braves in just about every position except 3rd base - cant wait to see these prospects start making there way to the Majors - looking foward to possibly having Hanson in the rotation by June or July.

By jed

January 18, 2009 12:13 AM | Link to this

not sure why someone would want swisher over nady. nady hit .305/25/97 last year, whereas swisher’s last two seasons have been less impressive—he hit .219 last year. i want no part of a guy hitting .219! also, with a one-year deal on nady, you don’t block schaefer in 2010.

i dont think we’re gonna spend the money it would take to get abreu or i’d recommend him. nothing wrong about pursuing griffey for 1 year/$3 mil—the estimated price for him—and platooning him with diaz.

but, again, we can not afford to start the season without a solid piece in LF. i dont think we can just wait til mid-season and acquire a bat without falling too far behind in the standings. the question marks in CF and RF make it essential we have LF shored up coming out of the gates.

By fumble fingers

January 18, 2009 12:14 AM | Link to this

Just wanted this on the record. Kelly Johnson is going to suck hard this year. Hope I’m wrong, but I don’t think I will be. I’ll gladly check back in around August or September to be ostracized if I’m wrong. He is mediocre at best.

By Tomas

January 18, 2009 12:18 AM | Link to this

Keylargo,

I agree that give the fact that Glavine isn’t an overpowering pitcher, he doesn’t get hurt that often(he had never gone to the disable list before last year in his entire 20 year +career). My concern with Glavine is not so much if he can stay healthy(his injury wasn’t nearly as serious as Smoltz, and they cleaned up his shoulder), but can he stay effective? He needs to have absolutely perfect control, which when healthy he has, and a very big strike zone(which less umpires are giving this days). My point is, that if Tom Glavine where to start his career at this point of time instead of 20 years ago, there is absolutely no way he wins 300 games. Well that’s just my point of view( I don’t really like slowthrowers, they’re just too hitable even if they have very good control). I want the Braves to sign him so he can finish his career in Atlanta, he did have some nice starts before he got hurt against the Rockies, Cincinati, and the Mets. Maybe he can prove that he doesn’t depend on what umpire is calling balls and strikes that day.

Imagine that rotation: SP Derek Lowe, SP Javier Vazques, SP Jair Jurrjens, SP Kenshin Kawakami, and SP Tom Glavine.

Derek Lowe would provide quality starts. I expect 200 innings and an ERA of 3.50, with a lot of ground balls

Javier Vazques return to the NL would benefit him a lot in my opinion. I expect a similar year statistically speaking like 2007. 200 innings, 180 strikeouts, and an ERA in the 3.80’s.

Jair Jurrjens just looked awesome in his rookie year. Many people seem worried about the fact he exceeded his career high for innings pitched by 45 innings or so(and he didn’t even pitched 200 innings). I don’t think there’s reason to worry. I expect him to repeat or even have a better season this year, but I don’t think he would get to 200 innings this year.

Kenshin Kawakami looked great in the youtube video. Japan baseball, isn’t bad at all, there’s a reason they won the world baseball classic. He has great control, so I don’t think the Braves would have a similar problem like the yankees have with Kei Igawa. Nobody has seen him, so he would have an advantage there. His stats in Japan were absolutely great, maybe he pitches close to 170 innings and has an ERA under 4.

Tom Glavine has won 305 games. After him and possibly Randy Johnson I seriously doubt another pitcher would reach that historic mark. If he is healthy, no soreness at all, maybe he can do what he was expected to do last year. 180 innings, and an ERA of 4.50

Jorge Campillo, Tommy Hanson, and Charlie Morton are all capable of filling a spot in case of injury.

By Chop Chop

January 18, 2009 12:18 AM | Link to this

Lew,

Regarding your 8:21 post…

I guarantee you that a Philly version of KC has already proven that people like you are blind to the greatness of the first back-to-back World Series champs since the 1999-2000 New York Yankees, the mighty Philadelphia Phillies.

By keylargo

January 18, 2009 12:23 AM | Link to this

I found this on the Dodger site. Evidently, all was not as peaceful as it sounded. The Dodgers thought about voiding Jones contract but, it sounds like they were scared of taking on the players’ union.

This was in the article that says the Dodgers waived rights to sue Jones in the future for violating the terms of the contract.

Money just doesn’t seem to matter much to the Dodgers.

From the LA Times

The agreement contains a provision in which the Dodgers waived any future claims against Jones. McCourt confirmed Thursday he had considered voiding the contract of Jones, who reported to camp last season significantly overweight, on the basis that he had violated the standard contractual obligation “to keep himself in first-class physical condition or to obey the club’s training rules.”

Such an action would have been met with an immediate grievance from the players’ union. McCourt said he explored the issue last summer but decided against trying to terminate the contract.

“I didn’t want to create a controversy,” McCourt said. “You’re tempted to do something — and maybe even have the right to do it — but we wanted to stay focused on winning a championship.”

Colletti said Jones, a five-time All-Star, had asked for a trade. Jones hit .222 with 29 home runs for the Atlanta Braves in 2007, his lowest batting average and fewest home runs in a decade. He signed a two-year, $36-million contract with the Dodgers, then batted .158 with three home runs.

“Last year, [Manager] Joe Torre tried so many things — [hitting coaches] Don Mattingly, Mike Easler, Jeff Pentland, endless sessions,” Colletti said. “Obviously, nothing worked.

By rainman34

January 18, 2009 12:30 AM | Link to this

with all the options in the outfield left on the market im not at all worried now. i do think we should look for a vet for the pen maybe a springer or cruz just in case sorieno or moylan dont stay healthy

By rainman34

January 18, 2009 12:30 AM | Link to this

with all the options in the outfield left on the market im not at all worried now. i do think we should look for a vet for the pen maybe a springer or cruz just in case sorieno or moylan dont stay healthy

By nolie

January 18, 2009 12:34 AM | Link to this

* Steve*

Here’s a link to the BABIP article. A good site for readers is BallBug.com. It’s a starting place for articles on baseball and being a bot it will learn if you like the Braves for instance. Hope the link works, sometimes lately they haven’t been.

BABIP article

By keylargo

January 18, 2009 12:46 AM | Link to this

Tomas - You are right that there probably will be no more 300 game winners. I just can’t imagine anyone playing on a team that plays .600 baseball for 14 straight years.

I also agree that Glavine got the wide strike zone most of his career. I never saw anyone throw a hundred pitches a game 6 inches off the plate and get 90% of them called strikes or have them swung at.

A funny thing though, I never liked to go to a game Glavine was pitching. You knew it was going to be a 3 hour game, especially if Glavine was not getting the wide strike zone. HE WAS RELENTLESS POUNDING THE OUTSIDE CORNER!

I loved to go to the games Maddux pitched for two reasons. First, they only took about 2 hours and 15 minutes and most likely the Braves won.

By KC

January 18, 2009 1:00 AM | Link to this

I’m amazed at how often I get pulled into conversations I have nothing to do with. lol

By brian

January 18, 2009 1:03 AM | Link to this

Prado is likely trade bait - possibly part of a package to try and obtain 1 more OF

By KC

January 18, 2009 1:19 AM | Link to this

Andy K: Where did you hear the AJ interview?

By uga-brave

January 18, 2009 1:48 AM | Link to this

wayne,

love utah, love alta.

had a great steak. love the powder.

had a great cohiba. had a great scotch.

scotch is good. especially the 20 year old.

bay area steve, i will leave you a cheap candian club. bay area steve at least pony up to bourbon.

makers mark or the turkey are better sipping whiskeys

then again maker’s is the best.

By KC

January 18, 2009 1:52 AM | Link to this

I just found and listened to the Andruw Jones interview… and damn, that was every bit as painful to listen to as many have said.

Andy K: He DID say he would not accept a minor league deal. They asked him if he would consider coming back on a minor league contract, and he said “No.” I believe he then added “probably not”, but it was difficult to hear him.

By ô¿ô

January 18, 2009 2:10 AM | Link to this

KC do you have a link to that interview?

By uga-brave

January 18, 2009 2:11 AM | Link to this

drunk and stupid is no way to go through life?

animal house?

DOB, traded options for a long time. traded just about everything. it pays the bill’s.

for all the novice’s out there, there is a etf.

UNG, is a natural gas etf.

UNG, natural gas is at a tremendous low.

internatioal paper is yielding close to 10%.

wine good, cigars good, bourbon better.

By CharlieAlphaBravo

January 18, 2009 3:09 AM | Link to this

Titus Andronicus huh? That’s awesome. Do they chop up Gaul princes at their shows and feed them to the queen?

By Bravo Nam

January 18, 2009 5:01 AM | Link to this

DOB and Moby Grape

Thanks for getting back to me on the compensation for Lowe and my question re Japanese fans and Kawakami.

By 35YearBravesFan

January 18, 2009 8:11 AM | Link to this

DOB What’s the status on Pete Moylan? Haven’t heard much about his rehab.

By ncgary

January 18, 2009 8:45 AM | Link to this

lets just say fer instance we did sign glavine griffey oh man and aj gets a spring invite and excels, what 4 players we gonna package and just restock the lower minors with? 4 playwers would have to come off the 40 man and i havent scoured it but , you probably have a lot without any options left. if we are planning on hoing this route what 4 players on the 40 do we try and restock the lower minors with?

By Hank Williams Sr.

January 18, 2009 8:50 AM | Link to this

Tomas,

I love Tom Glavine, but to say one of the benefits of having him around would be for the “young guys” doesn’t make sense. There will be no young guys. JJ is the only “young guy”, and he’s more likely to learn from Lowe, or to have learned from Smoltz. KK seems like he’s in his own world and has his own style. Vazquez is a Jr Vet, Lowe’s a vet. I’d much rather see the young guys get experience in the big leagues than know that Tommy Glavine is pitching while they’re in AAA….

By NCBravesFan

January 18, 2009 8:51 AM | Link to this

Here’s a link to the Andruw interview - really bizarro stuff.

http://multimedia.790thezone.com/m/21763337/andruw-jones.htm?q=braves

By Hank Williams Sr.

January 18, 2009 8:59 AM | Link to this

NCGary,

First off, there’s no restocking of “lower minors”. 40 man players would simply be put on the waiver wire and would have to clear it. At this point in the process any team could claim the player, but in doing so, they are required to place the player on their 40 man. If they player isn’t picked up, they can be placed back into the minor leagues of the original team. You run the risk of having the player taken off waivers every time. There is no “lower minors” unless you’re talking about rookie or A ball levels.

By ncgary

January 18, 2009 9:52 AM | Link to this

thanks hank, what are the eta of moylan ? may? soriano ? april?. has anyone been enquiring about bennet and carlysle? are they long relief spot starters again this year? enquiring minds . can 4 AAAA minor league retreads buy 1 bat?? or do we go the griffey ednunds 1 year route platoons??

personally i think griffey has another good year left with the fresh knee. sign him danno

over and out

By Lew

January 18, 2009 10:14 AM | Link to this

ChopChop-Dude, re: your midnight or so post-Huh? If you’ll notice I didn’t say the Braves were the frontrunner or would come in ahead of the Phillies, did I? Personally, as it stands right now, I would predict (shudder, cringe, vomit profusely and continue dry heaving all season) that the Mets are the team to beat. This could change if they find no one better than Oliver Perez (yet again) or Tim Redding to fill their depleted pitching staff or find a decent 2B, or if the Braves find that elusive Slugging Stud.

Only a KC-like Phillies’ fan (and keep in mind I grew up a Phillies’ fan and still have team contacts and friends) would believe the Phillies are the team they were when they won the Series. They lost their All Star 2B for half the season or more. Their (arguably) best middle reliever was just suspended for 50 games and their outfielder with the most power is gone, replaced by an aging Dude with no familiarity with the NL and much less raw power than Burrell. Ryan Howard is a notoriously slow starter and with Utley and Romero gone early in the season, the Phils might get off to so slow a start they’ll never see Diviosn Daylight all year.

Jamie Moyer had a great year last year, but keep in mind the Dude is 46 and his ERA last year was a full run lower than the four previous seasons combined. Do you seriously think that a. He will have another year like last at his age and b. Will Brad Lidge be perfect two straight seasons (no one else ever has been)? Joe Blanton and Howie Kendrick solidifying the rotation? Please!!!! After Hamels, this rotation is nothing special. I just don’t see them repeating as Division winners, much less taking another World Championship.

Oh yeah-let’s not forget that McFann might take her allowance and have Victorino kidnapped or put a hit out on him.

By Tokyo Joe

January 18, 2009 10:32 AM | Link to this

I know why. It’s the curse of Rochy. After he was traded, Thorman, Andruw and Frenchy all fell, so quickly. Who’s next? The Braves need bring back Rochy.

By Braveheart

January 18, 2009 10:45 AM | Link to this

In that interview, Andruw kinda sounded like he was on drugs or needed to be on drugs. He sounded high, drunk or mentally ill. Hopefully, it was just a case of him being out to 5 in the morning and getting woken up too early to do a radio show. He sounded like he was somewhat sick as well.

But hopefully, he’s not wasting his time anymore staying out until 5 in the morning. Dude’s got a career to resurrect. Nothing else should matter to him right now but his family and making sure he’s not retired when next January rolls around. If he’s still drinking and partying ‘til the sun rises even though he’s become such a joke in his profession, then the Braves need to take a pass. Sometimes the nicest thing you can do for those you love is the meanest thing. No sense becoming an enabler.

Cause if my career was in trouble like his is, I’d be up at the crack of dawn, fresh as a daisy. running, lifting. and hitting from sunrise to sundown. I sure as hell wouldn’t sound like I’d been smoking crack ‘til the crack of dawn. I’ve been listening to talk radio for 20+ years and have never heard an athlete sound like that on air. Very disturbing and sad. But at least we know it likely ain’t a drug issue because Andruw’s too fat to be riding the white horse.

Nod to the Beastie Boys:

It’s 4:00 a.m. Andruw’s got the Dr. Hfuhruhurr Ale He’s got nothing to lose so he’s pi$$in’ on the third rail Groggy eyed and fried, he’s callin’ the station

By SeaAtl

January 18, 2009 10:51 AM | Link to this

WOW - now I get it, thanks to NCBravesFan posting the link to Andruw’s radio interview. Tough to listen to! I wouldn’t make too much out of it though. To me all this debate on the blog regarding Andruw is moot - IF he’s willing to sign a minor league deal, then do it since it poses ZERO risk to the Braves with some potential for reward. But if he is unhappy with that (just ‘cause he mentioned in a radio interview he “probably” wouldn’t accept a minor league deal doesn’t make it the gospel) then don’t touch him - it all comes down to risk vs. reward and giving up a roster spot to him is waaaay to much investment. I also am really, really surprised that there is some blog regulars not excited about having Glavine back. Glaving as a #5 starter with healthier arm, a healthier bullpen, and 4 other starters more durable than last years = a very good rotation. Let the younger guys get starts in the minors & be ready for call up if Glavine tires or injures, if JJ has a touch of the Sophomore jinx, or if Kawakami can’t stand the extra innings of MLB.

By keylargo

January 18, 2009 10:51 AM | Link to this

I had wondered why the Dodgers had no interest in re-signing Derek Lowe while also losing Brad Penny and Greg Maddux from their starting rotation.

Like him or not, T J Simers from the LA Times will not worry about whose feelings he hurts.

the Dodgers wanted no part of Derek Lowe because of his relationship with a TV broadcaster while both were married to others

I hope Derek has worked this out and is not bringing this baggage to town with him.

By BravesFanInRockies

January 18, 2009 11:08 AM | Link to this

Lew,

You neglected to mention that the Phils signed the guy who will carry the club until Utley returns … Marcus Giles!

No, the 2009 version doesn’t look as intimidating as the club that won in October.

Though I will say, this little tidbit from Bowman about the Lowe signing is interesting:

“Motivated by last week’s meeting and under the belief that the Phillies might attempt to create payroll space by trading Brett Myers, the Braves acted quickly and provided an offer that Lowe couldn’t refuse.”

Had the Phils added Lowe, even at the expense of Myers, they would have boosted that rotation a lot.

So the Braves played both defense and offense by adding Lowe. Again, nice job, FW.

By Lew

January 18, 2009 11:15 AM | Link to this

KeyLargo-It was Southern California, for crying out loud. Do you seriously think this is news or an unusual occurrence there? He got divorced and married her. They’re willing to take Manny who refused to play games until he got his deal, but they didn’t want to waste time with a player who had an affair?

By Salamander

January 18, 2009 11:37 AM | Link to this

Saw some comments on here yesterday (too lazy to find and quote the posts) regarding the new Animal Collective album Post Merriweather Pavillion, and I just wanted to say that it is a great album and by far their most accessible work to date. Many people feel that its without a doubt their best album. I’ll hold off on such judgment for a few more weeks, but IMO it is at least in their top 3 albums (with Sung Tongs and Feels).

By chris r.

January 18, 2009 11:37 AM | Link to this

GO get Ben Sheets!!!! And sign Andruw to a deal…Let’s go have some fun this year, Braves!!!!

By ncgary

January 18, 2009 11:37 AM | Link to this

like him or not manny would make this team legit series contenders if bc kept him happy. cruz from the rangers might as well. dont have any idea what he costs though. probably gorkys marek & morton?? another??

By nolie

January 18, 2009 11:43 AM | Link to this

I hope Derek has worked this out and is not bringing this baggage to town with him. KL

I hope he worked it out too since he married her. LOL

By Trades that Make Too Much Sense

January 18, 2009 11:44 AM | Link to this

Martin Prado and Brandon Jones for Rick Ankiel.

By jbutler

January 18, 2009 11:47 AM | Link to this

KeyLargo A pretty naive position about Lowe. Its Hollywood- they thrive on stuff like that. The GM of the Lakers posed in Playboy. Think they bat an eye at an affair???

Whatever it takes to win..Not saying its a good moral stance but its a business not church.

By jbutler

January 18, 2009 11:52 AM | Link to this

Braveheart Fresh as a daisy..huh? I think its hard to watch aging stars as their skills naturally deteriorate- but when they turn out to be lazy/apathetic/clueless as it appears to be w/Andruw then I guess I lose sympathy for them. They’re pampered so much cause of their natural abilities that not many actually develop discipline when they need to. Sad- but true.

By THE BEAR

January 18, 2009 11:59 AM | Link to this

I just listened to the Andruw interview. That is pitiful. He has learned nothing. He still hasn’t even accepted the fact that he was out of shape last year. I see no future for him in baseball, period unless he has a complete epiphany within the next 30 days and who is going to bet on that?

He is a disaster, in the truest sense. He will not listen to a coach or to Chipper or Mac or anyone else. Such a waste.

By David O'Brien

January 18, 2009 12:01 PM | Link to this

CharlieAlphaBravo: No chopping up of humans, but damn, that band Titus Andronicus (yes, you know your Shakespeare) put on one impressive hour last night. Wish they’d been the headliner so they’d have played longer, but Los Campesinos (they were atop the bill) was also very good, though not as strong as Titus (well, except for the fetching blonde girls on keyboards and bass for Los Campesinos, particularly the keyboard player — gorgeous).

You can hear that Titus Andronicus has been heavily influenced by bands such as the Clash and Replacements. Young guys with a lot of potential, no doubt. I bought their CD at the show, and it’s strong from start to finish.

By Efrim

January 18, 2009 12:02 PM | Link to this

Trade that Makes Too Much Sense

“Martin Prado and Brandon Jones for Rick Ankiel.”

Right. Too much sense for the Braves. Not too much sense for the Cardinals.

By David O'Brien

January 18, 2009 12:03 PM | Link to this

the Dodgers wanted no part of Derek Lowe because of his relationship with a TV broadcaster while both were married to others

I hope Derek has worked this out and is not bringing this baggage to town with him.keylargo

Worked it out? Yeah, I’d say so — he married her last year. The TV sports reporter, that is. She was sitting in front of me at the news conference the other day.

By BravesFanInRockies

January 18, 2009 12:07 PM | Link to this

ncscoots, wherever you are*

My condolences about yesterday. Wake is good. Really good. Their bigs handle the ball and pass it as well as I’ve seen in recent times, considering their youth. They should be #1 this week though Dook will probably be there. The debate over who should be in that spot will be settled in another 10 days or so.

Meantime, I’m not fully confident about Wednesday’s game but I do feel better now that the Tigers have lost one. And that Wayne Ellington has finally found his shooting stroke. He shouldn’t need 36, but he may need 20.

By David O'Brien

January 18, 2009 12:07 PM | Link to this

ncgarry: Moylan is expected to be ready coming out of spring training (with everyone else, in other words) or shortly thereafter. No word yet on Soriano, who’s just starting to throw now….

Braveheart: Considering it was 10:15 a.m. when Andruw did that interview, and the 790 guys said their producer had talked to him 45 minutes before the interview to make sure he was up and everything was ready, it’s a bit alarming that he could sound that godawful for the entire length of the interview. I mean, that was absolutely painful to listen to. I’ve talked to Andruw hundreds of times and never heard him sound anything like that.

By ncgary

January 18, 2009 12:07 PM | Link to this

Mets explore possibility of signing Sheets

**By all accounts, re-signing Oliver Perez is the Mets’ top remaining goal now for addressing their starting pitching. The longer Ben Sheets, Andy Pettitte, Randy Wolf and others on the free-agent market, however, the more alternatives the Mets have should talks on Perez hit a snag. The Mets have begun to discuss the possibility of adding Sheets, according to Newsday, with the idea of snagging what could be a bargain off the market. Sheets is arguably the most prominent free-agent starter left now that Derek Lowe signed with Atlanta, but his history of injuries has held down teams’ interest pretty much all offseason.

With about four weeks before pitchers and catchers report, however, the Mets might be willing to raise the question whether that risk/reward balance is now worth a chance. After all, Sheets’ 31 starts and 198 1/3 innings marked his highest totals in both categories since 2004. Correspondingly, so was his 3.09 ERA. That’s a sizeable upside still out on the market this late in the offseason, but it remains to be seen what kind of contract it would take to lure him.

Given Pettitte’s long, illustrious history in New York, a recruitment to come to Flushing might seem logical on some level. However, the Newsday report cites a person familiar with the club’s thinking as saying the Mets aren’t involved with Pettitte.

The Mets have also been reported among four teams in the mix for free-agent starter Freddy Garcia. Randy Wolf and Jon Garland are also possibilities, according to Newsday.

If Perez and the Mets come to terms, of course, all of this is moot. Yet if a three-year, $30 million contract reportedly isn’t enough to bring back Perez, a client of agent Scott Boras, then the Mets will apparently be ready to explore their other possibilities.

Jason Beck is a reporter for MLB.com. This story was not subject to the approval of Major League Baseball or its clubs.**

maybe liberty ought to cough up a little more and sign sheets too/ lol

By KC

January 18, 2009 12:08 PM | Link to this

Trades that Make Too Much Sense: Respectfully, I don’t think that trade would work or SHOULD work. Prado is a good looking player, but I’m not sure his trade value has caught up to the opinion many of us have of him. And Brandon Jones’ star has fallen a good bit over the past year or two.

Also, Ankiel is a left-handed hitter who hit .224 against lefties last year. In a lineup that already features 3 left-handed bats and a switch-hitter who is more dangerous from the left side of the plate… I don’t think he’s a good fit.

If we COULD get him for Prado and Jones, I would do it… even if he has to platoon a bit with Diaz. But I think the Cardinals want more in return, and I don’t think he’d be valuable enough for us to give up anything more than that.

By Lew

January 18, 2009 12:11 PM | Link to this

KeyLargo-Not to mention that L.A.’s Mayor just got scandalized for an affair with a Reporter. It’s LaLa Land. They deal with Movie Stars and the like who are about as monogamous as weasels (probably less so, actually). It can’t be that big a deal to them out there. Besides, we all know baseball players never fool around. Or Basketball or football players, much less Hockey or soccer players. It’s all that testosterone athletes seem to have in abundance and much time away from wives. Not that the rest of society is immune, either.

By keylargo

January 18, 2009 12:21 PM | Link to this

DOB

The quote that the Dodgers wanted no part of Derek Lowe was from the Dodgers, not me. I would say the Dodgers made their position clear by not making an attempt to sign him. But to say it’s worked out because he married the reporter is naive. You have the rest of two familes that may not be as well of as the principles. Try having a couple of disfunctional kids back in LA while you are in Atlanta.

By the way, I tried to put that quote in Italics, but as others have noted, the Italics aren’t working.

By McFann O –[zzz]

January 18, 2009 12:24 PM | Link to this

Lew “let’s not forget that McFann might take her allowance and have Victorino kidnapped”

Hmm! Not a bad idea…

; )

By David O'Brien

January 18, 2009 12:27 PM | Link to this

From those still scratching their heads about Manny’s situation and who disagree with my opinion of the matter — that he, in the eyes of many, committed the unpardonable, entirely selfish sin of quitting on his team (Boston) in a playoff race over a contract dispute, and that his baggage is now considered at least as huge as his bat — here’s part of Bill Madden’s take on it in the NY Daily News today, first with a quote he got from a GM:

“If you’re a betting person, you have to figure Manny winds up going back to the Dodgers and for the two years,” said one National League GM. “At his age and without the DH, it makes no sense for a National League team to go out beyond two years for him. I could see an American League team doing three or more years, but the teams over there who could afford it seem to be set.”

Madden adds: Either that, or they just don’t want to take on the baggage. Whether he realizes it or not, Manny’s disgraceful bail-out act in Boston last summer has made him toxic with a lot of teams and no matter how many different ways Boras chooses to spin it, his ability to produce no longer overrides his behavior.

By David O'Brien

January 18, 2009 12:30 PM | Link to this

You have the rest of two familes that may not be as well of as the principles. Try having a couple of disfunctional kids back in LA while you are in Atlanta.keylargo

His ex-wife and two kids live in Fort Myers, where Lowe also has a house, so that he can see them more frequently. He said that’s why he only considered teams on this side of the country, so he’d be closer to them.

By BravesFanInRockies

January 18, 2009 12:33 PM | Link to this

keylargo,

What’s Lowe supposed to do, stop playing baseball? Or only play for a West Coast team? I’m not about to be a judge of the guy’s character or make any presumptions about what happened in his personal life or why. Family tragedies happen all the time. My guess is, Lowe’s in the financial circumstances that ease some of the worries that afflict less-affluent families.

By KC

January 18, 2009 12:34 PM | Link to this

Ben Sheets to the Mets is the only signing I can think of that would equally scare both Mets and Braves fans!

By KC

January 18, 2009 12:39 PM | Link to this

It’s good to hear that Moylan will be ready so early.

When you consider that the Gonzo will be there from day-1 this year, and the addition of Moylan… that’s a BIG upgrade to the pen right there. And if Soriano is healthy this year, the Braves could have the best pen in the league.

Even without Soriano, the Braves have a >chance< to have one of the best pens in the game IF Boyer and Acosta (who should benefit from not-insane workload and not being thrust into roles they’re not ready for) take a step forward this year.

But assuming Moylan is healthy and ready in April, Soriano certainly seems the be the x-factor… the thing the separates a good Braves pen from a GREAT Braves pen.

re-signing Ohman would help as well. DOB, what’s the word on Ohman??

By David O'Brien

January 18, 2009 12:44 PM | Link to this

A couple of items from Nick Cafardo’s always-solid Sunday notes column in the Boston Globe (Peter Gammons, Gordon Edes, Cafardo … the Globe keeps its baseball coverage going strong, even after it loses a great writer):

“The Red Sox won the World Series in 2004 and ‘07 because they had players such as Curt Schilling, Derek Lowe, Manny Ramírez, David Ortiz, Johnny Damon, Bill Mueller, Mark Bellhorn, Mike Lowell, Josh Beckett, and Jonathan Papelbon who stepped up their games when it counted most.

“[Identifying good postseason players] is certainly not a primary consideration — more of a secondary factor at best,” said Sox GM Theo Epstein. “Ted Williams didn’t perform in the postseason … I would take him!”

While [Cleveland GM Mark] Shapiro and Epstein appear to agree, you can’t help but wonder why so many of these teams missed the boat on signing players who are proven postseason performers, such as Ramírez and Lowe. How could Lowe have gone to the Braves for four years and $60 million, and not to the Mets, Phillies, or even back to the Red Sox? …

Paying attention to payrolls

One of the trends we’re seeing in payrolls this offseason (and there’s a long way to go) is that most big-market teams are coming down, and most small-market teams are going up.

The payrolls of the Red Sox, Yankees, Angels, Dodgers, White Sox, Mariners, Blue Jays, and Pirates appear to be going down. And it looks as though those of the Phillies, Mets, Cardinals, Orioles, Twins, Reds, Braves, and Giants are going up or staying at roughly the same level.

The Cubs are a big-market team whose payroll will be approximately $131 million this season, up from $118 million last Opening Day. The Brewers started 2008 with an $81 million payroll, which went up when CC Sabathia was acquired. But with Sabathia gone, the Brewers will likely start the season with roughly the same payroll as ‘08.

But teams like the Marlins, Royals, and Rays seem to be increasing payroll. The Marlins will likely be around $30 million, up from $22 million last season. The Royals have gone from $52.8 million to $70 million. They would love to trim payroll but haven’t been able to. The Rays added Pat Burrell on a two-year, $16 million deal, and so far have gone from $43 million last season to $60 million.

Payrolls are always difficult to figure because of signing bonuses, deferred compensation, dead money, etc. But the Red Sox have trimmed $38 million with no Curt Schilling, Manny Ramírez, and Jason Varitek, but have added John Smoltz, Brad Penny, and Rocco Baldelli to incentive-laden contracts that could increase payroll. So,a payroll that started 2008 at $134 million, and dropped when Ramírez was dealt and Jason Bay was acquired, will likely be closer to the $120 million of 2006 when all is said and done.

By David O'Brien

January 18, 2009 12:47 PM | Link to this

KC, I talked to Ohman three days ago (as I wrote here) and he said things were moving at a glacial pace for him and plenty of other free agents, that he and his agent were still waiting for some teams that had expressed interest to make offers, etc., but that the Braves had stayed in contact with him and he still prefers to be here if all things are basically equal.

(Me talking now: If he’s still getting new offers or teams indicating they’re about to make an offer, it’s not prudent for him to jump on the Braves’ initial offer, which has neither been raised or reduced since they made it in November. It’s the same reason so many other free agents haven’t signed yet — things are moving very slowly this offseason, not like previous years.)

By TommyP

January 18, 2009 12:51 PM | Link to this

KeyLargo: You’d be surprised, apparently, at what major league players do in their time away from the park. (YOU would be surprised, not many others)

There are tons of media-annointed “family men” that do some things you would not like. Trust me on that one. Braves included.

By ncgary

January 18, 2009 12:57 PM | Link to this

sure he could be toxic to team chemistry but so can living next to a power plant. without the power though , what ya gonna do live in mediocrity.

bradley to the cubs had alot of unfair bad reps too to go along with some legit ones. fact is all of us probably have alot of legitmate quirks that we could be fairly scrutinized over.

laying down in the middle of the season though is the cardinal sin in baseball

By JimTenn

January 18, 2009 1:02 PM | Link to this

DOB,

I wonder about AJ’s eyesight. I saw him squinting the other day at the tech game. i never saw him have to do that before. He is showing symptoms of someone with diminished accuity. He still reacts in CF pretty much the same, which makes me think it’s not his reaction time due to getting older.

I think it’s a pretty small investment given the potential return. Kind of like a junk bond. now that i think about it maybe we should put the 300k under our mattress instead.

By KC

January 18, 2009 1:04 PM | Link to this

Is anyone else surprised that a mega-market team like the Mets, with plenty of resources and brand new stadium, signed Tim Redding to be one of their starters?

Tim Redding???

That’s what they set out to do with their rotation this year? Sign Tim Redding and re-sign O.Perez (their reported #1 remaining goal)???

Had the Mets managed to sign another #1 starter this winter, they might have put the division out of reach for everyone else. I can only scratch my head and wonder why they didn’t.

By cvbraves

January 18, 2009 1:05 PM | Link to this

DOB: Braves need a lefty starter and one or two in the bullpen? Or don’t they?

Maybe the Braves should get with Tommy after this coming week’s throwing sessions and discuss rehab, potential, and contract. If they can’t agree, let’s get over it. Perhaps Braves could sign Perez for 3 years, 12 mil per…if they have the funds.

How much more would Beimel cost than Ohman?

By TommyP

January 18, 2009 1:09 PM | Link to this

KC: Dead on, my friend. The most underreported signing has been Tim Redding. I say “underreported” because it’s an absolutely horrible signing.

A championship team does not go out and fill a hole in their rotation with….Tim Redding.

Redding is a Nationals-type signing, a Mariner-signing (Silva anyone?)….

Worst offseason move so far…

By McFann O –[zzz]

January 18, 2009 1:12 PM | Link to this

KC “Is anyone else surprised that a mega-market team like the Mets, with plenty of resources and brand new stadium, signed Tim Redding to be one of their starters?”

Oh, they just signed Redding because he has a kid named Shea, that’s all.

By cvbraves

January 18, 2009 1:14 PM | Link to this

Is this a deal that perhaps could be done today or before Tuesday’s arbitration deadline and one FW has been considering?

KJ and BJ for either Ankiel or Ludwick! Cards don’t want to go to arbitration with them.

By Lew

January 18, 2009 1:17 PM | Link to this

KC-It’s been mentioned before here, but the Mets’ owner, Fred Wilpon, lost an estimated $300-500 billion in the Wall Street Ponzi scheme and there are plenty of Senators highly P.O.ed that Citibank took billions in their bailout and still ponied up $20 mil for naming rights on that new Stadium. Wouldn’t surprise me if Citibank were forced to back out of the deal (works for me, Joe Taxpaying Artist). That would leave the Mets with a lot less cash then they had originally planned on having. They may not be able to afford more than a Shorted Sheets or Oliver (Hi there, I’m still Mediocre away from Pittsburgh) Perez.

By Efrim

January 18, 2009 1:20 PM | Link to this

KC

“That’s what they set out to do with their rotation this year? Sign Tim Redding and re-sign O.Perez (their reported #1 remaining goal)???”

Great point. It’s strange. Derek Lowe would of been the perfect fit for that team, but they decided to save the money. For a team that has a window like the Mets(and yes, I really believe that the Mets have 2009-2011 to win a World Series, yes, many things can happen from now till then, but Beltran will be a FA after 2011 and 35 years old and Johan Santana will be 33 and likely not the same pitcher that he has been), it would of made a lot of sense to sign a pitcher like Lowe to slot right behind Johan.

By BravesFanInRockies

January 18, 2009 1:27 PM | Link to this

cvbraves,

I don’t know what you’re suggeting, but Ankiel and Ludwick will go through the arbitration process even if they’re traded, unless they sign before the hearing. It doesn’t matter whose roster they’re on, the process moves forward.

By Trades that Make Too Much Sense

January 18, 2009 1:28 PM | Link to this

“KJ and BJ for either Ankiel or Ludwick!”

What a terrible deal. One year of Ankiel and a flash-in-the-pan like Ludwick isn’t worth that.

By David O'Brien

January 18, 2009 1:29 PM | Link to this

Perhaps Braves could sign Perez for 3 years, 12 mil per…if they have the funds.cvbraves

Not happening. Won’t be handing out any more big, multi-year contracts to pitchers this winter. Not with Hudson’s option there for the exercising in 2010 and good kids on horizon, led, of course, by Hanson. Not gonna have five starters not named Jurrjens (five would include Lowe, Vazquez, Kawakami, Hudson and, in your scenario, Perez) making about $55 million in 2010. Not happening. No way.

By Lew

January 18, 2009 1:34 PM | Link to this

Excuse me-meant to say 300-500 Million. Add a couple zeros and now you’re taliing some serious money, right?

CVBrave-Why would we want to send one barely arbitration eligible player and another who isn’t EVEN arbitration eligible yet, to the Cards for a player who will be a Free Agent in one year? He’s worth some minor league talent and that’s about all. Dude’s nothing but a converted pitcher with one VAGUELY DECENT season at the plate.

For crying out loud-Ankiel only played 120 games, hit only .264 with a barely decent OBP of .337 and still struck out 100 times with only 42 BB. Just because he hit 25 HR once is hardly an indication he’d do anything we needed him to do. At least Adam Dunn has a track record of 40HR and 100 RBI seasons. Ankiel? None.

By Tomas

January 18, 2009 1:53 PM | Link to this

Just heard a few minutes of the Andruw interview. Man the guy is nervous. He just blocked, even for the first question, How you doing Andruw? huhhhhhhhhhhhhh…………………………….I’m good. It doesn’t surprise me, I have the same problem when I’m nervous. Maybe he is just a guy who folds under pressure, that’s why he didn’t make it in LA, and that’s why the last time his played in the post season he seemed Alfonso Soriano like.

By cvbraves

January 18, 2009 1:56 PM | Link to this

Lew — Dunn asking $14 mil per year for 4 years. Where does the money come from? Money may be a problem even at 1 year for 12 mil.

DOB — RE: your reference to Nick Cafardo’s article in the Boston Globe. Notice he also wrote that Stan Karstan and the Washington Nationals were staying in touch with Tommy and watching his progress! Hate to lost Tommy, too.

By Lew

January 18, 2009 2:13 PM | Link to this

cvbraves-I’m not advocating the signing of Dunn (and he’ll never get a long term contract for that kind of money), I’m merely pointing out that number wise, Ankiel is nowhere close to Dunn and many are leery of signing Dunn. Just saying that unless we were to trade a minor leaguer for him (and a somewhat low one at that) that Ankiel is a really flipping stupid signing. Giving up ML ready or already ML talent for a one year rental of a marginal player is, well-when salary dumping is not going to happen- really flipping stupid.

Besides, had you heard that in an interview the other day, Wren said the money for signing a power bat is NOT an issue?

By N Nine

January 18, 2009 2:15 PM | Link to this

Could it be possible we don’t acquire that big OF bat?

We have many average/ below avg. OF players

Anderson,Blanco,B Jones, Diaz, Frenchy, and Schafer. I suppose we have no room for that large bat.

The crumb-bums will be set with Andruw Jones…

By keylargo

January 18, 2009 2:16 PM | Link to this

Lew, JButler, TommyP, BFIR

This is for all of you that misunderstood my post earlier. I did not make the statement that the Dodgers wanted no part of Derek Lowe because he had an affair.

It was a direct quote from T J Simers column in the LA TIMES today.

The Italics on the Blog is broken and it makes it look like I said it, but yes Lew, JButler, TommyP and BFIR The Los Angeles Dodgers wanted no part of Derek Lowe because of the affair. NOT ME>

I am guilty of wondering why the Dodgers did not attempt to sign him.

By Random

January 18, 2009 2:16 PM | Link to this

DOB: “[Manny], in the eyes of many, committed the unpardonable, entirely selfish sin of quitting on his team (Boston) in a playoff race over a contract dispute, and that his baggage is now considered at least as huge as his bat”

You know, that kinda reminds me of what Babe Ruth did in his final season with the Red Sox.

“Unpardonable”, my axe.

ncgary: “laying down in the middle of the season though is the cardinal sin in baseball”

Cardinal, perhaps, but apparently not mortal.

We all seem to have forgiven Babe Ruth.

By mbatl

January 18, 2009 2:17 PM | Link to this

“Dunn asking $14 mil per year for 4 years. Where does the money come from? Money may be a problem even at 1 year for 12 mil.”

Dunn may be asking for 4/56, but I don’t see anybody paying it. I bet he’d bite on 3/30 if the Braves made the offer tomorrow.

Not saying that’s the best alternative… Wren seems to have some other ideas in mind.

By KC

January 18, 2009 2:17 PM | Link to this

Lew: I think Ankiel’s season was more than vaguely decent. He did put up good numbers, and did it in less than a full season’s worth of at-bats.

That said, he’s not a proven middle-of-order hitter, and he hit .223 against lefties last year. Not a fit for a Braves team that already has 3 left-handed bats, unless we don’t have to give up a great deal to get him.

And if we did get him, he couldn’t be seen as the answer to the offense the Braves need to add. He would need to be the offense what Kawakami was to the rotation… a nice and valuable piece, but not THE piece to the winter puzzle.

But I believe the Cards probably want more for Ankiel than he would be worth to a Braves lineup that needs a cleanup hitter, and DOESN’T need to become even more vulnerable to lefties.

By McFann O –[zzz]

January 18, 2009 2:23 PM | Link to this

BTW—We got a couple snowflakes last night!

Warmer today, though: 43°!

By Murphy

January 18, 2009 2:26 PM | Link to this

Thank goodness we can stop talking about the Braves signing Perez. So, please…can we stop talking about that terrible idea already?

By cvbraves

January 18, 2009 2:27 PM | Link to this

mbatl - Adam Dunn at 3 years for $30 mil. I’d take that in a heartbeat!

By KC

January 18, 2009 2:28 PM | Link to this

DOB, thanks for the Ohman update.

I think there are really only 2 things left for the Braves to do this winter… 1) re-sign Ohman. And 2) get another big bat.

Keep Ohman would round out this pen VERY nicely. If we keep Ohman, then even if Soriano isn’t healthy, the pen is in good shape. If everyone’s healthy in the pen, it should be dominant.

If the Braves get one more big bat, they’ll have very solid, proven hitters at 7 positions… or 8 if Frency bounces back.

I just hope either Anderson or Schafer can step up and truly earn the CF job. It would be nice to have some speed in the order somewhere.

By Andy K.

January 18, 2009 2:38 PM | Link to this

I still think Frank Wren pulls off another signing or trade for LF. Then, I say we have AJ, Josh Anderson, and Jordan Schafer (My bet’s on him) compete during Spring Training for the CF job. I really hope Will Ohman stays too…First Class Dude.

By KC

January 18, 2009 2:41 PM | Link to this

Just curious, how many of you that live in the are plan to take in some Gwinnett Braves games this year?

Do you think it will affect the number of big league games you attend?

By N Nine

January 18, 2009 2:41 PM | Link to this

Did anyone know our “ACE” Lowe was 8-10 with 4.10 ERA on Aug.6th?

He did finish 6-1 with 1.27 ERA to earn himself this large contract.

By Plato

January 18, 2009 2:45 PM | Link to this

Frenchy is our ace in the hole. What an added bonus it will be if he puts up big numbers. I, for one, believe he will. Something was going on in his head last year. For his own good I’m sure he’s taken care of whatever it might have been. He didn’t do what he did before last year without talent. The talent and ability are there, here’s hoping/believing the head will be this time round…

By winterville

January 18, 2009 2:52 PM | Link to this

N Nine

That shows how well he pitched when it was money time. It is not easy to get an era down to 3.24 from 4.10. I also seem to recall he had a couple of bad outings that skewed his era anyway. I’m not worried about it.

By Plato

January 18, 2009 2:56 PM | Link to this

I go to quite a few Rome Braves games. It does affect how many A. Braves games I attend. So far I’ve been unable to grace both places at the same time… lol Not meaning to be a smartazz, btw…

By Francoeur=Sir Outsalot

January 18, 2009 3:04 PM | Link to this

“Frenchy is our ace in the hole. What an added bonus it will be if he puts up big numbers. I, for one, believe he will. Something was going on in his head last year.”

When has he ever put up big numbers? Aside of course, from being in the top three in the league in outs made like in 2006 and probably 2008.

By ColoradoBravesFan

January 18, 2009 3:10 PM | Link to this

Does anyone think the Braves should go try to trade for Magglio Ordonez? Are the Tigres trying to trade him, and what do the Tigers need?

I really hope the braves can get a RH slugger to place between chipper and McCann in the lineup. We should have some pitching depth to trade from to get a clean-up hitter.

GO BRAVOS…

By Lew

January 18, 2009 3:13 PM | Link to this

KeyLargo-Dude, don’t take it personally. We know you’re just reporting what you read. We’re thinking the Dude that wrote it is And Idiot-not you. Must have been a slow news day and he needed a topic. I’m thinking no one in L.A paid much attention or just LTAO.

By Andy K.

January 18, 2009 3:17 PM | Link to this

Francoeur=Sir Outsalot Actually, in his third full season, Jeff was at a career low in strikeouts with 111 as opposed to 129 and 132, and his OBP was actually higher than it was during his 29 Homer year in 2006.

By WrenFlops

January 18, 2009 3:29 PM | Link to this

I would be willing to bet that Frank Wren waits maybe even until Spring Training to see who becomes available. There is considerable talk that Wren doesn’t want to go the free agent route. He prefers a trade. Xavier Nady is available but he is a free agent after next season and Wren doesn’t appear to want to meet the trade demands for a year much like he did with Mark Texiera for a year and a half. I would like to see Atlanta give a chance at playing time to some of the young players. I’m not saying let them play even if they don’t play well in spring, but give them a legitimate shot at playing. This team appears on the cusp of ascending back into playoff contention just like the Braves did in the early nineties. The front office mixed youth with veterans then and the rest is history. I like SOME of the veterans they have. I think that if they catch a break and a young player or two pans out this year, they could ocmpete for the postseason.

By Francoeur=Sir Outsalot

January 18, 2009 3:30 PM | Link to this

An OBP under .300 is not acceptable from anyone except a pitcher. Certainly not an everyday corner outfielder.

2006: Francoeur has a .293 OBP and made 507 outs; the third most in the NL.

2007: Francoeur has a league-average .338 OBP and made 477 outs; the tenth most in the NL.

2008: Francoeur has a .294 OBP and made 479 outs; the sixth most in the NL.

Top ten in outs made in the league in EVERY FULL SEASON PLAYED. The prince of outs is a real drag on the offense.

By cabravesfan

January 18, 2009 3:35 PM | Link to this

Keylargo, Lew and others

With regards to TJ Simers- the man is a jerk and you have to take everything he says (or writes) with a huge boulder of salt- if he dislikes someone-whether there is a reason or not- he will write whatever he can to be hurtful, regardless of facts (he trashes his own son in law because he once worked as a grocery store clerk)

By ppaddy123

January 18, 2009 3:43 PM | Link to this

I think all things being considered for left field….I like the idea of trading for Xavier Nady, and here’s why…….It’s a contract year. The guy SHOULD put up big numbers. I like Bobby Abreu. He is an excellent player, but he will cost more up front and require a 2-3 year commitment from the Braves. Adam Dunn is an absolute NO! There is just no way to compare him to Nady and Abreu. Nick Swisher is also a NO! I liked his OBP a few years ago with the A’s, but at the end of the day, unless he’s leading off and scoring tons of runs, I want a guy that can hit AND drive in runs. Nady #1……..Abreu, maybe? #2…..Everyone else………not an option.

By ppaddy123

January 18, 2009 3:46 PM | Link to this

OH…….and one other thing……..NO FREAKING WAY DO THE BRAVES NEED TO SIGN ANDRUW!!!!!

By Random

January 18, 2009 3:46 PM | Link to this

Andy K.: “Francoeur=Sir Outsalot Actually, in his third full season, Jeff was at a career low in strikeouts with 111 as opposed to 129 and 132, and his OBP was actually higher than it was during his 29 Homer year in 2006.”

Actually, I’d say comparing Francoeur to Francoeur constitutes scraping the bottom of the barrel for optimism.

By Andy K.

January 18, 2009 3:56 PM | Link to this

Francoeur=SirOutsalot Fine, let’s see you do better. Sheesh cut the guy a break. He’s in the major leagues, so he’s obviously doing something right. He had a bad year…it happens. Like Frenchy said himself, Pat Burrell hit .209 a season ago….look what happened. Bad years are gunna happen, it happens to everyone. Don’t worry, I think the Braves are aware of his stats. And when you are the manager, you can decide whether or not Frenchy gets to play.

By Random

January 18, 2009 4:05 PM | Link to this

ppaddy123: “I think all things being considered for left field….I like the idea of trading for Xavier Nady, and here’s why…….It’s a contract year. The guy SHOULD put up big numbers.”

Yeah, right — that’ll work! Just like it did for Andruw.

By keylargo

January 18, 2009 4:07 PM | Link to this

If Pres. Obama is going to insist on closing down Gitmo Bay and releasing the prisoners there, I have a suggestion. Make them sit on the sidelines of the Baltimore/Steelers game tonight. They have to sit and watch those fantastic athletes, with their speed, grace and strength, beat on each other. Let them listen to 80,000 “fanatics” in the stands after they get “warmed up” all afternoon tailgaiting.

Then fly them back to their countries and let them tell what it is like in America.

By bgvt

January 18, 2009 4:08 PM | Link to this

Siroutsalot —

Surely you are kidding: complaining that Francoeur made more outs than almost anyone in the NL in 2006 & 2007? I think JF was one of the very few players to start 162 games in those two years. If you get lots of playing time, you’ll make outs. This simple fact is why most people focus on ratios (BA, OBP, ERA, etc.) than totals for lots of baseball stats. The batting title goes to the highest batting average not the player with the most hits.

(There are of course exceptions — the RBI, HR, Wins, and K leaders are all determined by totals.)

I’m not defending JF: he was bad in 2008. As a Braves’ fan, I hope that he can rebound in 2009 and put some numbers up that are closer to (or even better than). Can he post a BA of .280, OBP of .340, SLG of .475, hit 25 HR, and drive in 100? His past performance suggests that he can. Will he? Only time will tell.

By BravesFanInRockies

January 18, 2009 4:08 PM | Link to this

AndyK,

We’re not in the major leagues, see? And Francoeur is. And he makes more outs than about 500 other guys who are paid to do what he does.

That’s the problem.

By BravesFanInRockies

January 18, 2009 4:11 PM | Link to this

KC

On board with your 2:17. The Cards are likely to want more for Ankiel than the Braves should surrender for a part-time player who’s also a rental.

ColoradoBravesFan

I’d love to see Magglio with the Braves for the right price. I have no idea what that is in this market.

By Francoeur=Sir Outsalot

January 18, 2009 4:11 PM | Link to this

“Fine, let’s see you do better.”

I couldn’t. But then I’m not the one getting paid a six-figure salary to play baseball for the Atlanta Braves.

By Daybed Wagmoe

January 18, 2009 4:16 PM | Link to this

N Nine — That’s true, but let’s look at other numbers. Out of 34 starts, Lowe had 20 quality starts (at least 6 IP, 3 or less earned runs) last year. In only 8 of those starts did he allow 4+ earned runs. 6 times he allowed 0 runs at all.

Plus, check out his season splits. He had a rough May, going 0-4 with a 6.11 era in 35.1 IP, walking 14. Other than that one month, he posted a monthly era over 3.06 one time, which was in August (3.65). In every other month except June (3-3), he posted a winning record.

I’m with winterville — pitching down the stretch like that shows that he’s a big-game pitcher. The 8-10 record and 4.10 era through early August aren’t at all indicative of his whole season.

By bgvt

January 18, 2009 4:20 PM | Link to this

KC —

On your Gwinnett Braves question: I have family out that way and will probably visit this summer. With a 4-year old daughter, I’m tempted to go see the G-Braves. No way I could talk the family into the big trip to the Ted only to last 4 innings. In the past, I would have tried to talk up a big trip (I’m the biggest baseball fan in the family).

Unlike last year when Richmond filled its rotation with reclamation projects (Brian Lawrence, Damian Moss), the G-Braves could have some serious prospects pitching: Hanson, Reyes, Morton, Parr, Redmond, Medlin, …. Of course, this assumes that none of them get traded. I think that trading Jo-Jo or Charlie would be trading low at this point. Hanson is obviously a keeper. Parr and Redmond seem to be fairly low upside. The Braves minor league pitching is looking better than it has in a few years.

By Andy K.

January 18, 2009 4:21 PM | Link to this

BFIRStill, I don’t think it’s fair to get on a guy who’s job is to hit the ball. He makes a lot of contact, a lot of the time, you’re not going to get a hit, it’s simple probability. And it’s actually only about 390, not 500 players, and Frenchy’s not dead last. And average on 13 non-pitchers on a roast, times 30, simple math, 13x30=390. If he does well this year, everybody’s going to be praising him, and conversations like these will be long gone.

By Francoeur=Sir Outsalot

January 18, 2009 4:24 PM | Link to this

bgvt, the bottom-line is in two of Francoeur’s three full seasons in the majors; he has put up an OBP of under .300. That is extremely detrimental to the team’s ability to score runs. And it goes double for Francoeur, since he is playing an offensive position in right field.

Only pitchers and utility infielders have any excuse for that kind of very low on-base percentage.

By ppaddy123

January 18, 2009 4:30 PM | Link to this

Hey Random……show me ANY comparison between Nady and Andruw Jones. The Braves don’t need a long term solution in Left field. Nady is THE BEST short term solution until some of these “can’t miss” young guys that Frank Wren REFUSED to trade are ready.

By jojobo

January 18, 2009 4:44 PM | Link to this

that would not be smart by their part at all to even think of signing perez - they already are going to have too many pitchers for 2010 with hudson lowe vazquez jj kawakami hanson - maybe trade vazquez next winter for a good 3b Prospect to replace chipper in a few years.

By Random

January 18, 2009 4:47 PM | Link to this

nolie, Steve from OH —

Thanks for the discussion on BABIP (and thanks for the link, nolie).

Y’all should also check out this HardBall Times article from 2 Dec 08, if you haven’t already (it was linked to within the one you provided above).

It’s a little more elementary (ie, more words than numbers, hahaha), and has a downloadable Excel spreadsheet that may be fun to play with.

The spreadsheet compares players’ 2008 (and earlier) actual BABIPs with what the authors would have expected. (They use a more complex formula than Line Drive per cent plus .120).

Some interesting results:

some players the Braves might be interested in had significantly lower actual BABIPs than might have been expected — Swisher (-20.09%), Edmonds (-15.14%), Hinske (-14.38%), Dunn (-9.83%). These players might be expected to perform significantly better in 2009, if their BABIP “regresses to the mean” (but further study comparing their 2008 actuals to their career BABIPs might be fruitful);

actual BABIPs for Ankiel, Griffey, Abreu, Nady were all pretty much within plus or minus 2% of expectations — we can probably expect the same levels of performance in 2009 as 2008 (with adjustments for age, etc), unless they get exceptionally lucky (or exceptionally unlucky);

on the other hand, these players’ actual BABIPs exceeded their expected BABIPs by more than 2% — Hudson (+3.63%), Dye (+3.75%), Manny (+9.33%). These players might not be quite as good in 2009 as in 2008 (especially since they’re all on the downsides of their careers).

Jeff Francoeur (-8.71%) and Casey Kotchman (-4.83%) are the two Braves who might be most likely to have big bounce back years in 2009 (especially if Jeff conquers his demons and Casey gets fully settled in).

Chipper Jones (+15.05%) and Omar Infante (+8.91%) are the two Braves with the greatest capacity to disappoint next year (compared to their 2008 performances).

By Tomas

January 18, 2009 5:04 PM | Link to this

Tom Glavine would entertain an offer from Washington.

He just wants money. I can certainly understand why Smoltz decided to go to the Red Sox but the Nationals, I mean come on. Finish his career in a last place team instead of playing for the Braves where he spent most of his illustrious career, and is a team that actually have a shot.

By Random

January 18, 2009 5:07 PM | Link to this

ppaddy123: “……show me ANY comparison between Nady and Andruw Jones.”

Are you asking for a comparison of Andruw’s 2007 “walk year” with Nady’s 2009 “walk year”?

Can’t be done, son. Not yet.

Or are you suggesting that Nady is anywhere close to Andruw in his prime? That, my friend, is laughable.

My only point was that “walk years” do not necessarily work magic.

My comment immediately preceding this one would indicate that Swisher, Edmonds and Dunn would all be better bets next year than Nady — I myself would prefer a free agent to a trade (unless Wren is able to once again emulate a robber baron).

By DAP

January 18, 2009 5:25 PM | Link to this

bravesfaninrockies mags is getting about $18mil per year for the next three years. and thats after you trade for him. i dont think he will be an option.

By ppaddy123

January 18, 2009 5:28 PM | Link to this

Random, OK …….What do the Braves need for LF? From EVERYTHING I have read on here (DOB Man in Black Blog) the Braves have (2) very good young “potential” CF’s and an absolute “stud” corner OF in Heyward. Signing Nady will accomplish two things. First he IS a quality player (your BABIP numbers show that). Second, when he walks after 2009 we will pick up an extra draft choice. He truly is the most affordable REAL option for LF.

By jed

January 18, 2009 5:31 PM | Link to this

just heard andruw’s radio interview:

http://multimedia.790thezone.com/m/21763337/andruw-jones.htm?q=braves

that just opens a whole nother can of worms, doesnt it? i mean either the guy had the flu or he was woken up out of a serious drunk sleep. it sounded like the latter to me.

if i had to guess, i’d say we just found another missing piece of the andruw jones puzzle. i’ve been saying since 2006 he looked like he was partying way too much. like he’d lost all focus and interest in the game. i think you’re dealing with someone who might need rehab.

By ppaddy123

January 18, 2009 5:33 PM | Link to this

By Random…..My comment immediately preceding this one would indicate that Swisher, Edmonds and Dunn would all be better bets next year than Nady — I myself would prefer a free agent to a trade (unless Wren is able to once again emulate a robber baron).

Oh and just because these guys might IMPROVE their BABIP’s doesn’t mean they will be BETTER than Nady’s BABIP, which by your own numbers shows how consistent he has been.

By KC

January 18, 2009 5:34 PM | Link to this

bgvt: I you’d like, you’re welcome to email me at kccjr1@gmail.com, and we might be able to connect at a game when you’re in town. I live 15 minutes from the new G-Braves stadium.

There’s a group of us that blog here in the ole AJC blog, and get together periodically for a Braves game… which this year will undoubtedly include a few G-Braves games.

BTW: I also have a 4 year-old girl, and a 3 year-old boy, so I completely understand your point about it being difficult to stay for 9 innings!

By KC

January 18, 2009 5:39 PM | Link to this

bgvt: Forgot to mention…

I completely agree with you on the state of the minor-league pitching. Better than it has been in a while, and we’re going to see some good young talent at Gwinnett over the next couple years.

Again, in the past, the best young almost-ready talent may have either at AA or AAA. The level of talent between those two levels isn’t all that different, so there often wasn’t much motivation to promote a player to AAA unless they already had some ML experience.

But this year, keeping their best nearly-ready kids at AAA will give the Braves brass a chance to see them in person, and will keep them near in the event of a call-up. So we’ll definitely a lot of talent-loaded Gwinnett teams. It won’t affect my attendance at the Ted, but I’m exciting to get the to see the kids play at the G-Braves park.

By ppaddy123

January 18, 2009 5:46 PM | Link to this

Man, that Eagles head coach needs some slim fast or nutri- system….something!

By McFann O –[zzz]

January 18, 2009 6:25 PM | Link to this

Whoo-hoo, Cardinals!! No Filly Eagles in the Super Bowl!

BTW—My Dad lived in the same dorm (same hall!) as Ken Whisenhunt, the Cardinals’ head coach, at Tech.

By bgvt

January 18, 2009 7:39 PM | Link to this

Okay, Sir Outsalot:

You’ve dropped your silly reference to Jeff ranking in the top ten in most outs made: I’ll take that as agreement that you were being a bit silly using outs made as a statistic (without adjusting for games played). OBP is a better way to measure what you want to measure. My post clearly said that Francoeur had a bad year in 2008.

Here is the question: what should the Braves do with Francoeur? You seem to think that he is so horrible that the Braves should get rid of him. I doubt that he would get much value in a trade (face it: if you are correct, he is horrible). So, would you release him?

I certainly would not. He turned 25 years old a couple of weeks ago. In the 2006 season (one of the ones you complain about his OBP), he was all of 22 years old. I think the Braves are doing the right thing to give him another chance at reaching his potential. He might very well top out as a pretty weak major league player but he might also go on to have a pretty good career.

Baseball Reference has some interesting comparative statistics that compare current players with other players at the same age. For Francoeur, here is the link:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/f/francje02.shtml

(BTW, the similarity index places more weight on totals than I would; it might be better to put more weight on BA, OBP & SLG%. The totals do, however, give a player credit for the amount of time that his organization allows him to play.)

Through age 24, Jeff is most similar to Harold Baines, Gus Bell, and Jeff Burroughs. These (and others on the list) are guys who had reasonably good major league careers. Not HOF type careers but the types of guys who made an occasional All-Star appearance or collected a few votes for MVP. Only time will tell if Jeff can have nearly as good a career as some of the players who were similar through age 24. I hope so but I have some doubts.

By nolie

January 18, 2009 7:49 PM | Link to this

What do the Braves need for LF? From EVERYTHING I have read on here (DOB Man in Black Blog) the Braves have (2) very good young “potential” CF’s and an absolute “stud” corner OF in Heyward. Signing Nady will accomplish two things. First he IS a quality player (your BABIP numbers show that). Second, when he walks after 2009 we will pick up an extra draft choice. He truly is the most affordable REAL option for LF ppaddy

I like Nady but I’m not so sure how affordable he will be in terms of prospects. The Yanks are not gonna give him away cheaply IMO. Another thought is that they might prefer to find a guy who will be available for more than one season because it is pretty unlikely that Heyward will be ready B4 2011 ideally.nn

By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)

January 18, 2009 7:58 PM | Link to this

Here is an objective, unbiased opinion regarding Derek Lowe. It’s the type of honest scouting report that cannot be heard from the AJC spin writers.

the real skinny on Derek Lowe

By David O'Brien

January 18, 2009 8:00 PM | Link to this

Just got back from a chilly ride on the bike. That’ll make you feel alive, I tell you that (if you can feel your face and fingers)….

Looked like pass interference to me….

Just picked up the new Bill James Handbook. I’ll start digesting this info tonight….

By David O'Brien

January 18, 2009 8:12 PM | Link to this

Always curious to see what Bill James projects for certain players in the coming season.

Just took a quick glance at the new handbook to see what he’s got projected for a few pitchers:

Derek Lowe: 14-9 with a 3.60 ERA in 206 innings.

A.J. Burnett: 14-11, 3.62 ERA in 224 innings.

Jake Peavy: 14-8 with a 3.26 ERA in 202 innings.

Ben Sheets, 13-8 with a 3.39 ERA in 186 innings.

Jair Jurrjens: 10-9, 4.02 in 178 innings (projecting a little regression in his second full season).

By the way, for what it’s worth: For Andruw Jones, he projects .233 with 16 HRs, .328 OBP and 50 RBI in 301 at-bats.

By Random

January 18, 2009 8:26 PM | Link to this

ppaddy123: “[Nady] truly is the most affordable REAL option for LF.”

All depends on what he costs the Braves in a trade (on top of his $4M salary).

Also, how do you know that Heyward will be ML ready in 2010?

A 2-year deal with a similarly serviceable free agent (Dunn, Abreu) may be more prudent.

By David O'Brien

January 18, 2009 8:31 PM | Link to this

And the only pitcher that Bill James has projected to win more than 17 games in 2009? Johan Santana at 18-7 with a 3.01 ERA in 230 innings. He’s got Halladay and Liincecum each projected to win 17, the only others who are over 16 wins in James’ projections.

He’s got Lincecum at 17-9 with a 3.02 ERA and 272 strikeouts in 240 innings. Wow.

For those who might be wondering, he has Sabathia at 16-10 with a 3.48 ERA in 240 innings.

By nolie

January 18, 2009 8:33 PM | Link to this

Random thanks for the further thoughts on BABIP. I guess at this point I see it more as a descriptive stat ie Chipper hit 30 points better than ever as his BABIP was much higher so luck was probably a factor. I think maybe it fluctuates too much to be a reliable predictor. I’m gonna keep reading some on it.n

By Random

January 18, 2009 8:47 PM | Link to this

nolie: “ppaddy … I like Nady but I’m not so sure how affordable he will be in terms of prospects. The Yanks are not gonna give him away cheaply IMO. Another thought is that they might prefer to find a guy who will be available for more than one season because it is pretty unlikely that Heyward will be ready B4 2011 ideally.nn”

Thanks — I just now tried to make the same couple of points — I shoulda read all the comments since I left; woulda saved me 15-20 minutes. (I know, I know — I’m slow.)

By Random

January 18, 2009 9:07 PM | Link to this

nolie: “thanks for the further thoughts on BABIP. I guess at this point I see it more as a descriptive stat ie Chipper hit 30 points better than ever as his BABIP was much higher so luck was probably a factor. I think maybe it fluctuates too much to be a reliable predictor. I’m gonna keep reading some on it.n”

Agreed — the most I can get out of BABIP right now, is that it points out when a player’s actual performance lies outside of what would be “expected”.

Adding to this the assumption that the “exceptional” performance is likely to return to the “norm” is about the only predictive power I myself see in it. I agree that this is somewhat unsatisfactory.

Here’s a couple more links to pursue — Dave Studeman’s original study and Studeman’s follow-up work.

I’m gonna give ‘em a shot. Eventually. Sometime.

By ColoradoBravesFAn

January 18, 2009 9:08 PM | Link to this

Mags is signed in 2009 & 2010 for $33M(expensive) with club option for 2011($15M).

Big contract plus prospects probably rules him out for the Bravos. How is Magglio on defense?

Magglio Ordonez of 5 years/$75M (2005-09), plus 2010 & 2011 club options

5 years/$75M (2005-09), plus 2010 & 2011 club options

signed by Detroit as a free agent 2/05 $6M signing bonus (due 11/05, not guaranteed)

05:$6M, 06:$15M, 07:$12M, 08:$15M, 09:$18M, 10:$15M club option ($3M buyout), 11:$15M club option (no buyout) Tigers may void contract after 2005 if Ordonez spends 25 or more days on disabled list in 2005 with recurrence of pre-existing left knee injury options guaranteed at $18M for 2010 & $15M for 2011 if Ordonez has: 135 starts or 540 PAs in 2009, or 270 starts or 1,080 PAs in 2008-09 award bonus: $0.1M for All Star selection

By Billy Pilgrim

January 18, 2009 9:11 PM | Link to this

Bill James is innovative, and I enjoy his work. But I’ll eat my hat if Burnett pitches that many innings.

By Random

January 18, 2009 9:25 PM | Link to this

ppaddy123: “Second, when he walks after 2009 we will pick up an extra draft choice.”

PS: That’s only if the Braves offer him arbitration, which I don’t think they’d do, whether Heyward is ready or not.

Do you?

PPS: do you like own your own business? Are you the big boss of wherever you are? Or maybe an only child?

You seem totally unused to anybody ever disagreeing with you.

Just wondering.

By indybrave

January 18, 2009 9:28 PM | Link to this

Any word on Frenchy this offseason? Hopefully he took the rest of 08 off, cleared his mind and started fresh for 09.

By Random

January 18, 2009 9:30 PM | Link to this

Billy Pilgrim: “Bill James is innovative, and I enjoy his work. But I’ll eat my hat if Burnett pitches that many innings.”

Or Ben Sheets, actually. (You can eat my hat.)

By indybrave

January 18, 2009 9:42 PM | Link to this

I don’t look for Burnett or Sabathia to do much this year. CC has pitched in small markets so far and won’t be used to the constant bombardment of New York. Burnett will show why I’m glad the Braves didn’t get him.

By KC

January 18, 2009 9:55 PM | Link to this

Bill James is “projecting a slight regression” for Jurrjens. WHY??

Is there some reason to think he’s more likely to take a step BACK than a step forward? We hear a lot about the so called “sophomore slump”, so I decided to play MythBusters with this concept.

I just went through most every starting pitcher for the Braves for the last 20 years, and looked at their career stats. But I thought the Braves starters might be a poor example because so much of it was Maddux/Glavine/Smoltz, so I added a second team, the Reds, at random, and looked at their starters for the last 20 years as well.

Some of the pitchers I looked at started their career partially or entirely as relievers, while others were up and down so much early in their careers, they didn’t serve as clear examples. I was looking for pitchers who for, the most part, spent their first two full seasons as starters. I compared the rookie and sophomore seasons of the following starters:

Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz, Avery, Millwood, D.Martinez, John Burkett, J.Marquis, J.Thompson, S.Reynolds, Hampton, R.Ortiz, Pete Smith, Zane Smith, E.Milton, P.Wilson, R.Dempster, C.Reitsma, P.Harnisch, T.Browning, T.Belcher, D. Rasmussen, D.Jackson, G.Swindell

Of the 25 starting pitchers I looked at, 21 of them performed about as well or better in their sophomore season as they did in their rookie season. Only 4 (Smoltz, Marquis, Ortiz, & P.Smith) took any kind of a noticeable step back in their second (full) season of starting.

The “sophomore slump”, as least as it pertains to Major League starting pitchers, is a myth.

That’s not to say that some people don’t move backwards in their second season. But to say it’s some sort of phenomenon that’s so common as to have catchy label attached, would be incorrect.

Perhaps the sophomore slump is very real among position players and players in other sports. I don’t know. I haven’t looked at that. But among ML starters… it’s rare.

Betting on Jurrjens to have an ERA over 4.00 is foolish, and I’d be more than happy to put a $20 on that with Mr. James.

By KC

January 18, 2009 10:04 PM | Link to this

In case you’re wondering about the “sophomore slump” as it pertains to Haracio Ramirez and Damion Moss…

Ramirez was hurt for most of his sophomore season, but in the 9 starts he was able to make, he was outstanding.

Moss only made 9 starts in his sophomore season as well, but that might have been because he was so bad that they had to demote him. But even if you include him as a sophomore slump victim, we’re still talking 21 who were as good or better in their second year, vs. 5 starters who regressed.

By Anders

January 18, 2009 10:05 PM | Link to this

Bill James = Anders. :)

BTW- Has there ever been more violent hits in one game then this AFC championship game? I’d take being a switch hitting MLB back up infielder over a starting running back any day.

By Anders

January 18, 2009 10:06 PM | Link to this

Jim Nantz has gone completely into his Masters Golf voice for the carry off.

By McFann O –[zzz]

January 18, 2009 10:19 PM | Link to this

Wow…Very scary collision in the Pittsburgh-Baltimore game. I only saw the replay (only half looking at the TV), but even in slow-mo you could tell that was bad!

Night, all!

By nolie

January 18, 2009 10:30 PM | Link to this

KC

wow, you really can’t stand it when someone isn’t as optimistic as you are, can you? LOL

It’s your assumption that the sophomore slump is involved. My guess is it has much more to do with him having pitched so many more innings last year than he ever did B4(Verducci Effect?). Superstitious (for lack of a better word in my feeble brain right now) concepts like sophomore slumps are not the kinfa things that empirical number crunchers like James are gonna believe in, Certainly not without doing much more research than you just did.

By Steve from OH

January 18, 2009 10:40 PM | Link to this

Coach, here is also some unbiased opinionating supported by “science.” Ben Sheets Mechanics

These guys don’t like him either (actually, this one is a much better read).

Ain’t it funny how lotsa people are worried about his shoulder? I’m sure it’s just a coincidence…

Sheets is good when healthy, no doubt. The problem is he’ll never be healthy. Whether it’s this year or next year, he’ll hurt his shoulder (probably badly) and probably won’t come back the same if he comes back at all. And when that happens, I’m sure you’d just as soon tar-and-feather Frank Wren for signing another injury-prone starter, wouldn’t you?

By Random

January 18, 2009 10:41 PM | Link to this

Something’s been stickin’ in my craw the past few days – a “charge” against Smoltz that I never saw rebutted in the rush and crush of crashing blogs and clashing opinions:

Bravedawg: ”Yes, it’s a business, but not just from the Braves’ perspective. It’s a difference from Smoltz’s perspective as well—we’ve paid him over $130 million, but he still took the best deal offered to him, regardless of other factors…regardless of the fact that he’s pitched here for 20+ years.”

Wayne Kelley: ”Why would a guy who has been paid 130 million by a team over a period of his whole career, some of those years rehabing, leave a team, fans and city that loved him to go somewhere were he’ll be just another player?”

YoungBuck: ”My question on Smoltz is if he says he’s going to pitch next year, and both contracts come out to be about the same after incentives and he would have taken less from the Braves, then why in the world would about 2 million dollars make a difference when he has already made more than 130 million from the Braves over his years with the organization.”

nstew: ”John Smoltz has been paid over $130 million to pitch for the Braves over 21 years. The highest of which, 2008, was $14 million to throw 28 innings. He left over a couple of million, and I’m supposed to ONLY be angry at the organization? Smoltz sold out US, not the team.”

J.C. Bradbury of the Sabernomics blog: ”I don’t think Frank Wren deserves the heat that he is going to get for this. The Braves have paid Smoltz $130 million over his career. Smoltz wanted more, and I don’t blame Wren for passing.”

And of course, KC and THE (“Sunshine”) BEAR bombasted their outrage numerous times about “$14M in 2008 for not pitching”.

|-(

So, okay, the Braves have paid Smoltz $130M since 1989 – the implication is that he wasn’t worth it, that enough is enough, and that he had no right to expect any more than what the Braves were unilaterally willing to “give” him in 2009.

Such bullsiht!

I’m gonna take this in two bites, owin’ to the limitations of my statistical sources.

First – 2002 thru 2008:

According to both Fangraphs.com and Cot’s, the Braves paid Smoltz a total of $72.0M for these seven years (yes, including 2008’s $14M).

Fangraph’s objective estimation of Smoltz’ value to the Braves for these seven years (yes, including 2008) is $94.6M — he earned twenty-two point six million dollars more than he was paid.

Even after his disappointing 2008, Smoltz did not owe the Braves a dime for any perceived failure to perform. (For 2002-2007, the Braves paid him $58.0M – he was worth $90.1M, by Fangraph’s estimation, a difference of $32.1M.)

Now, for 1989 thru 2001, the Braves paid Smoltz a total of about $58M for these thirteen years, or less than $4.5M/year (source BaseballReference.com).

In these thirteen years, Smoltz posted 158 wins, won the CYA in 96 and finished 4th in 98; made the AS team four times; finished 1st in the league in IP twice and 3rd twice; racked up 12 postseason wins with an ERA around 2.70 and a WHIP less than 1.15; was the 92 NLCS MVP; and notched his first 10 saves (out of 11 opportunities).

Does anyone here think that Smoltz did not earn his $58.0M and more in those thirteen years from 1989 thru 2001, including 2000 which he missed due to TJ surgery?

Yeah — me, neither.

This is the last I wanna hear about Smoltz’ “$130 million”.

By Steve from OH

January 18, 2009 10:45 PM | Link to this

How ‘bout them Steelers, eh? Kinda makes up for Ohio State’s poor showing this year…

By jbutler

January 18, 2009 10:46 PM | Link to this

Anders I know I’m not the toughest person around..but I can’t imagine even the toughest guys wanting to get knocked around like that. Yikes. I grew up next to Lyle Alzado (Broncos - late 70’s/early 80s) he was a linebacker…and looked like he got hit by a truck..backed up..again..again..anyway- you get it. Tough on the body.

By StingerSplash

January 18, 2009 10:50 PM | Link to this

As someone who has followed the Red Sox (and the Braves) for the last 36 years, Manny’s behavior last year, at least what is being intimated to the outside world, is beyond forgivable. But …. I know the Braves aren’t looking for another big free-agent signing. But how about entertaining a three-year deal for Manny. Let him hold down LF for about a year. Heyward could be ready by then. Then, you can ship Ramirez to some sucker AL team (and there are plenty who would be willing to eat most of his deal to bolster their lineup. Rangers, Yankees, maybe the Tigers, to start). So you’ve got Heyward in left, you’ve gotten a handful of prospects or some bullpen help or both in return for Manny, and you got a season-plus out of Ramirez, giving Chipper some protection in the lineup behind him. I know it’s not going to happen. But it’s a nice dream. BTW, BB King and Buddy Guy at the Shoreline Ballroom on Hilton Head next month. If that’s not the same weekend as Louris/Olson in Atlanta, I’m so there.

By Random

January 18, 2009 11:01 PM | Link to this

KC: “Of the 25 starting pitchers I looked at, 21 of them performed about as well or better in their sophomore season as they did in their rookie season. Only 4 (Smoltz, Marquis, Ortiz, & P.Smith) took any kind of a noticeable step back in their second (full) season of starting.”

I’m beginning to think that I’ll not ever again be able to believe a single word you have to say about Smoltz. What’s your problem, man?

Smoltz 1989 — 12-11, 208 IP;

Smoltz 1990 — 14-11, 231.1 IP.

By KC

January 18, 2009 11:14 PM | Link to this

nolie: Come on dude, you’re better than that.

If you don’t feel like taking the time to research this on your own, that’s understandable. I spent more time on it than I should have myself! lol But when someone presents a fairly well thought through assertion based on something concrete, it’s cheap to dismiss it as you did.

I don’t think Bill James just say around and guessed Jurrjens was in for a “sophomore slump”. But I was curious what percentage of starters take a step back, and what percentage improve. So I looked into it, and after sizing up 2 franchises over a 20 year span, I believe it’s unlikely (certainly not impossible, but unlikely) for an excellent rookie season, like the one Jurrjens just had, to be followed up with a barely above average effort.

If you want to assume that Bill James has the a magic formula that renders everything I’ve pointed out meaningless, that’s fine. But to respond with… “wow, you really can’t stand it when someone isn’t as optimistic as you are, can you?”… is cheap.

By Steve from OH

January 18, 2009 11:19 PM | Link to this

I too am a bit skeptical that Jurrjens will take a step back in ‘09, but keep in mind that James’ formula is pretty sophisticated. I dunno, it’s just a projection, I wouldn’t lose too much sleep over it. If anything, wait until the PECOTA projections come out, they’re more accurate anyway (well, more accurate than Olney and Kurkjian, anyway).

By KC

January 18, 2009 11:19 PM | Link to this

Random: Dude I have never - NEVER - had a bad thing to say about Smoltz on the field. For that matter, other than his decision to leave, I’ve never had a problem with ANYTHING about the man, period.

Smoltz was always my favorite player. Pi$$ed as I am about what I perceive as his decision to walk away from the ATL fans… I think he’s a rightful first ballot HOF’er, and probably the greatest post-season pitcher of all time.

I think he took a step back in his second season because his ERA rose almost a full run from his rookie season, from 2.94 to 3.85.

I didn’t say his sophomore season was bad. It certainly wasn’t. But an ERA a run higher could not be considered “performing as well as or better than his rookie season”. That’s all I was saying. Calm down dude.

By David O'Brien

January 18, 2009 11:21 PM | Link to this

KC, I don’t have an answer for that. Just sharing his projections with you all. Bill James doesn’t give reasons for individual projections, and I’m just telling you what he’s written, not whether I agree (with Jurrjens, I don’t; and I, too, believe the A.J. innings is a bit too high, since he’s never had back-to-back big-innings seasons and had a career-high 221-1/3 in ‘08).

The other two previous times that A.J. topped 200 innings, he followed by pitching 23 innings and 135-2/3 innings. But hey, maybe he’s turned the corner, figured things out. We’ll see.

The “slight regression” was my characterization of James’ projection for Jurrjens, by the way.

If you look at his day-by-days last year, there were more times when Jair pitched well and got no decision than there were games where he pitched mediocre and got a win or pitched poorly and got no decision. So I’m not quite sure why Bill james would expect him to have three fewer wins and an ERA more than a quarter-run higher than ‘08. He has his reasons, obviously.

By Steve from OH

January 18, 2009 11:46 PM | Link to this

And I’m pretty sure that James’ projections are automated, so he’s not pulling that out of his arse (the computer is, lol).

By Random

January 19, 2009 12:07 AM | Link to this

bgvt: “I’m not defending JF: he was bad in 2008. As a Braves’ fan, I hope that he can rebound in 2009 and put some numbers up that are closer to (or even better than). Can he post a BA of .280, OBP of .340, SLG of .475, hit 25 HR, and drive in 100? His past performance suggests that he can. Will he? Only time will tell.”

That “SLG of .475” is really far-fetched, given that (1) his career average SLG is .434, and his previous career high SLG (full season) is .449; and (b) his isolated power (ISO, or SLG minus AVG) has steadily decreased year after year after year (2005 — 2008: .249; .189; .151; .120).

Though it is devoutly to be hoped for.

By Tomas

January 19, 2009 12:09 AM | Link to this

Bill James has a cool job. He writes a guess of what he expects how a player stats would look, and then charges you 25 bucks to see it.

By nolie

January 19, 2009 12:15 AM | Link to this

If you don’t feel like taking the time to research this on your own, that’s understandable. I spent more time on it than I should have myself! lol But when someone presents a fairly well thought through assertion based on something concrete, it’s cheap to dismiss it as you did. KC

my point was that it likely had nothing to do with the sophomore slump, which seemed to be your contention.. I fail to see how that denigrates what you researched,….though another 25 different pitchers might have shown different results. And I bet James would have studied hundreds of pitchers B4 deciding if it existed. I think you’re being pretty sensitive there. But hey, if I offended you, I’m sorry. It wasn’t mu intention

By nolie

January 19, 2009 12:20 AM | Link to this

“wow, you really can’t stand it when someone isn’t as optimistic as you are, can you?”… is cheap KC

there was an LOL after that my man. means it was facetious, based on your board reputation.

By nolie

January 19, 2009 12:24 AM | Link to this

I dunno, it’s just a projection, I wouldn’t lose too much sleep over it. If anything, wait until the PECOTA projections come out, they’re more accurate anyway (well, more accurate than Olney and Kurkjian, anyway). Steve

James, PERCOTA etc it doesn’t matter. None of them are foolproof and most are wrong more often than the are right. Other than curiosity, I place no relevance in any of them as to what will actually happen. It’s all about odds, and that means that there is always a pretty good chance that they mean nothing in reality.

Did you see that link from last night on BABIP?

By THE BEAR

January 19, 2009 12:35 AM | Link to this

For the record I think Smoltz is the best post season pitcher of all time. And any time the Braves absolutely had to have a victory during the season Smoltz was always my favorite to be toeing the rubber.

Furthermore I don’t think he was overpaid by collecting $130 mil over 20 years. Had he come along ten years later he would have been one of the highest paid pitchers of all time.

Having said all that he did pitch 28 innings last year and collected $500,000 PER INNING. Or another way to put it is he collected slightly MORE THAN $2 MILLION per start. Now that is some serious bread for not pitching.

My question is simply; just how long should a team be expected to keep paying ANY PLAYER after his value to the team has dropped to the ineffective level? Smoltz and Glavine have reached that point, just as Andruw has. They have all been treated fairly and I would not put another dime in them just to make a few fans happy. Their heydays are behind us and it it time to move the team into the future.

Finally the Braves offered Smoltz a fair contract. Boston offered a better one when it comes to guaranteed money. He chose to accept the Boston deal. I think he made the right decision. I also think the Braves made the right decision. And I would not risk another dollar on Glavine when we have so many young pitchers who need to be put on the line in 09. Winning is the name of the game and I don’t see Glavine winning more than some of the younger fellows on the roster.

Andruw DESERVES NOTHING. If he can produce then pay him and if he cannot forget him. And if he is expecting the Braves to risk something for him (even a roster spot) then I say NO WAY.

By nolie

January 19, 2009 12:55 AM | Link to this

Random

You’re right of course that regression is the mean is the basis of statistical prediction, but with such low yearly correlations how are we to feel certain what the mean really is? Thanks for the links, I bookmarked them and will read through them as I get some time in the next day or so

By TennesseePaul

January 19, 2009 1:19 AM | Link to this

Wow. I just listened to that AJ interview. What a hard thing to listen to! I thought The Wrestler was depressing…

By uga-brave

January 19, 2009 1:22 AM | Link to this

our suburau just flipped over a mountain.

wayne, i might look you up. skied our but’s off. dont think we will make our flight.

at least i was not driving. had a boda full of bay area steve’s favorite stuff.

alta is awesome. all my buddies are steeler’s fans.

wayne, you definetly would not want us.

scary crew. i think AAA will help us out.

By KC

January 19, 2009 1:40 AM | Link to this

nolie: No worries man. I wasn’t upset… I just thought you were taking a bit more of a jab than you actually were, and was firing back a bit. I have lowered shields and powered down all phasers. =)

THE BEAR: You are a voice of reason, sir. Slight disagreement on a couple things though… I do NOT think Smoltz made the right decision by walking away from his fans of 20 years over an extra couple million dollars (and it may wind up that there isn’t ANY difference between what he earns and what he could have here) at the end of his career.

The ATL fans supported and looked up to him for two decades, and made possible the life he now enjoys. I think it was very uncool of him to walk away like he did. But… that’s nothing I haven’t said many times before.

I’m also not sure that Smotlz has reached a point where he’s no longer effective. That remains to be seen. Certainly Glavine (even before he got hurt) is nowhere near what he was when he was at the top of his game… but Smoltz actually WAS still dominant before he went down last season.

Smoltz can’t be counted on anymore, and he may not be as effective. But we’ll have to wait and see. Well, actually, OTHER people can wait and see. I don’t give a damn what he does in Boston.

And I actually think there’s a chance that Glavine can help this team this year. In 2007 Glavine was a lot better than his ERA would indicate. He had over 20 quality starts in 07, which is a total usually reserved for aces in that category. QS is certainly a limited statistic, but it DOES tell you how often a starter gives his team a chance to win… and Glavine did that a helluva lot in 07.

And Glavine was outstanding through April last year, but then his health went down hill, and so did his effectiveness.

If Glavine is healthy, I don’t see any reason why he can’t be as effective as he was in 06 and 07. Jamie Moyer’s still getting it done, and he’s 4 or 5 years older. Glavine’s cut from the same mold, and if his arm is sound, I think he may still have some good baseball left in him.

The nice thing is… it doesn’t really matter. He’d essentially be the 5th starter, and we have other options if he goes down. So personally, I hope he comes back. I think he can probably help.

By jed

January 19, 2009 1:47 AM | Link to this

uga brave

i think, in looking for help, you may want to check with AA as well as AAA. ;)

and were you by any chance partying with andruw the night before that radio interview of his?

TN Paul—that was kinda scary wasnt it? i’m no teetotaler, but man…that wasnt exactly encouraging to listen to. he had to know he had an interview scheduled the next day. had to know the braves brass would hear the interview. and he still got that messed-up? doesnt exactly send the message that he’s chompin’ at the bit to turn things around.

and how about his answer when the guy asked him “do you see how showing up that out of shape with that big of a contract drove the dodgers fans crazy?” andruw says “yeah…but i think they overdid it.” which means what? nothing about that interview indicates he “gets it.” i’ve been a fan of andruw’s for a long time, but something’s wrong there.

By BosnianBaller

January 19, 2009 2:10 AM | Link to this

I dont know if anybody has seen this but it’s a pretty good Maddux interview from 97.Some of the young Braves pitchers should see this.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8z0cV2blXE

By jed

January 19, 2009 2:11 AM | Link to this

kc

i dont really think smoltz left because of money. i think he left because the braves were dragging their feet signing him and he got the message. above all, i think he knows this is probably his last year pitching and he wanted to pitch in the playoffs again. given the off-season the braves had had at that point he probably wasnt convinced the braves were intent on contending, and certainly he’d received no indication he was wanted.

he put all these things together and figured now was the time to leave. i dont blame him really. and i dont blame the braves either. given the pitching injuries last season and smoltz’s inherent risk factor there, i think they made a very logical decision.

i think your take on glavine is spot-on, by the way. and i also recall all the crap you took about your posts soon after smoltz signed with boston. you’re a masochist for certain, but more careful consideration has vindicated your position.

By uga-brave

January 19, 2009 2:14 AM | Link to this

jed,

third hand went all in with a a pair of bullets.

lost to a flush.

love the wine or the borbon to ever check in.

got the friends that do this every year.

they are dwindling though. maybe you would like to hang out with us?

got a trip to pebble beach planned, and a trip to stillwater planned.

we are going to okla city and heading up to stillwater to see the dawgs opener.

jed you would enjoy it.

never get old brother, never quuit enjoying, i never will.

By jed

January 19, 2009 2:25 AM | Link to this

uga brave,

yeah i hear you, man. never get old. never quit enjoying. sounds like something i’d say myself.

have a time of it., buddy…

By Couch Tater

January 19, 2009 7:21 AM | Link to this

uga I guess the wife is happy. Her Stillers are goin’ dahn to the Superbowl. Good time to plan some more guy trips.

By Shaun

January 19, 2009 8:34 AM | Link to this

“Shaun: I don’t have a problem with Dayn Perry, for instance, saying that they bullpen looks shaky to him, pending the health of Moylan and Soriano.”

“I think the national media types are selling Acosta and Boyer short (and respectfully, I think you may be doing the same)… but I don’t have a problem with the above stated point of view.

“Dayn asserted that the Braves pen will very good if Soriano and Moylan pitch most of the year. If not, it could be very shaky. I can’t disagree with that. It’s a very fair appraisal.

“As for Gonzalez, no he wasn’t >exactly< lights out, but he was close enough. No one expects you to be 100% (in terms of sharpness) when you return mid-season from TJ surgery. But if you’re as good as Gonzo… 80% will work just fine, and it did. “

KC, I do think Boyer and Acosta have good arms. I’m actually a Boyer fan and think he took some undeserved ribbing from many on the blog over the past couple of seasons. I actually think Boyer could be the best pitcher in the bullpen next season. I don’t think Acosta has shown he can be all that great.

Moylan and Soriano are big question marks. Not only do they need to pitch, they need to come back effectively in order for the Braves to have a great bullpen.

Gonzalez had quite a few outings in which he wasn’t on. Throw in the injury and I think he’s a minor question mark.

That leaves Boyer and probably Gonzalez as the only two relievers we can put some faith in. Still, it has the potential to be a very good if not great bullpen. But if it’s a great one, it will be hanging by a string.

By spotts

January 19, 2009 8:40 AM | Link to this

Can anyone tell me how to pronounce Rohrbough?

By spotts

January 19, 2009 8:40 AM | Link to this

Can anyone tell me how to pronounce Rohrbough?

By Random

January 19, 2009 8:47 AM | Link to this

nolie: “You’re right of course that regression is the mean is the basis of statistical prediction, but with such low yearly correlations how are we to feel certain what the mean really is? Thanks for the links, I bookmarked them and will read through them as I get some time in the next day or so”

Well, I had assumed that, for example, for the “Line Drive percentage plus .120” formula for projecting BABIP, that it was derived empirically from all balls put into play in MLB history (or some other statistically valid subset).

The authors of the 2 Dec 08 HBT article appear to use a sample of all MLB balls put into play from 2002-2008.

But whatever the variable(s) the BABIP formula is based on (LD% alone for the former; BB/K rate, FB/GB ratio, contact rate, spray, BJames “speed score”, LD%, park factor, etc, etc for the latter), the constant that is incorporated into the formula (.120 for the former; who knows for the latter) would as far as I know have to be empirically derived, like Euler’s constant or π (pi), based on a ton of actual observed data.

By Random

January 19, 2009 8:51 AM | Link to this

spotts: “Can anyone tell me how to pronounce Rohrbough?”

Like “Rxohxrboxughx”, except that the x’s are silent.

By bgvt

January 19, 2009 9:04 AM | Link to this

Random: I prefer “optimistic” to “far-fetched” in asking whether Francoeur can have a SLG% of .475. You are focused on averages and trends. I like to think about variances a bit more. If you focus on averages, then last spring, then there is no way you would have seen JF’s SLG% being a paltry .359, since his career average up to that point was probably around .460.

I wrote .475 without a detailed look at JF’s history. I appreciate your perspective. I based the .475 on what is a reasonable SLG%. I’ve now looked at the league stats: last year, .475 would have ranked about #60 among MLB among qualifiers. Melvin Mora and Mark Derosa both had SLG% above .475. (BTW, they were 40 & 60 points above their career averages — suggesting that stats bounce around from year-to-year.)

Alas, hope springs eternal. Maybe 2008 was the kick in the seat of the pants that JF needs to get back on track.

By Braves Fan in PA

January 19, 2009 9:10 AM | Link to this

I am kinda tired of all these posts of what Smoltz made in the past and so he should have worked for free now (little exaggeration).

What a player makes today is based on what the market is today and it was obviously a lot higher for Smoltz (my guess if not the Red Sox someone else would have taken a chance at more then what the Braves offered in guaranteed/easily reachable milestones). To say he should take a discount because he got hurt last year or to remain loyal to the Braves, blah, blah… Is to also not give him respect he has earned namely to say the market is x but we think you should come back at 1/2 of x.

Also it seems the Red Sox will be more patient with bringing him along so if he pitches less innings I hope we don’t get all the posters saying see he didn’t pitch much and good the Braves didn’t sign him. Where we need him most is the playoffs where (other then Avery) we’ve lacked that dominant post-season pitcher. Of course it remains to be seen if we’ll even get there.

By Braves Fan in PA

January 19, 2009 9:14 AM | Link to this

If Andruw hits Bill James numbers I for one would take that at a million a year its a steal!

I know DOB says about a roster spot there are a few I would take off but understandably I am not the GM I think if Wren wanted to open a spot trade a couple of pitchers that are unlikely to t figure into the plans he could easily create a spot too. So I don’t buy the roster spot as an excuse to not give him a major league contract.

By Random

January 19, 2009 9:31 AM | Link to this

bgvt: “Alas, hope springs eternal. Maybe 2008 was the kick in the seat of the pants that JF needs to get back on track.”

Maybe so — I know my fingers are crossed.

By Couch Tater

January 19, 2009 9:46 AM | Link to this

Random Is Cox’s Theorem used for our bullpen? Is it a poisson process? :)

By Hillbilly

January 19, 2009 10:21 AM | Link to this

DOB,

Did some reading up on Shotgun Stories after I saw your recommendation. Not only was it filmed and set close to my stomping grounds, but the director is the brother of Lucero’s leading man, Ben Nichols. Ben actually wrote the original score for the movie. Looks like a film that I really need to see.

By Random

January 19, 2009 10:29 AM | Link to this

From John Perrotto of Baseball Prospectus:

“… Yankees outfielder Xavier Nady is drawing trade interest from the Braves, Reds, Pirates, Giants, and Nationals. … The Mariners might sign outfielder Ken Griffey Jr. as a free agent, although the Braves and Marlins are said to have at least cursory interest as well. … The Mets plan to increase their three-year, $30 million offer in an effort to re-sign left-hander Oliver Perez. … “

And Mike Maddux has moved from Milwaukee to be pitching coach for Texas (could be old news here).

By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)

January 19, 2009 10:37 AM | Link to this

Did you know that the N.L. hasn’t won back to back World Series since 1980-81. I’m picking the Rays to win it all this year.

Funny, I didn’t see Bill James team win/loss predictions for the 2009 Braves. Without even knowing, I’m betting he picked them to finish in third place in the N.L. East.

By David O'Brien

January 19, 2009 10:42 AM | Link to this

Braves will probably wait to see how much they have to give up to get Nady. They’d really like to have him, but as he’s only a one-year rental they don’t want to give up young talent unless it’s from a position of strength (and given their young pitching depth, it’d not surprise if they were willing to give up one of their prospects not named Hanson)….

Hillbilly, I didn’t know that about the director, that he’s Ben Nichols’ brother. Believe me, you’ll like the movie. It just sort of creeps up on you and immerses you slowly in its story….

By David O'Brien

January 19, 2009 10:42 AM | Link to this

Random, that 8:51 response made me laugh….

By Jim H.

January 19, 2009 10:44 AM | Link to this

Terence Moore wrote columns almost every offseason for the past several years saying the Braves should get Ken Griffey Jr. Now that we’re in a situation where it might make at least a little bit of sense to pursue him, we don’t hear a peep from Terence. What’s up with that?

By TexasBrave

January 19, 2009 10:48 AM | Link to this

Tried to do a little research (and failed miserably) comparing Bill James’ last year projections and players actual stats from last year. Does anyone know were I can get those stats or do I still have to buy a copy of last years book?

I think it would be interesting to see how close he was at projecting some of our Braves like Frenchy’s collapse and Chipper’s batting title.

By Random

January 19, 2009 10:52 AM | Link to this

Couch Tater: “Is Cox’s Theorem used for our bullpen? Is it a poisson process? :)”

Not just the bullpen! Since the conjunction of plausibilities is associative, we should be batting Francoeur behind Chipper as an associative binary operation.

PS: I think Andruw could stand some “Poisson thinning” himself.)

;->

By TexasBrave

January 19, 2009 10:57 AM | Link to this

Hey DOB did you know Bill James graduated from KU? I knew there had to be something wrong with the guy : )

By ROBfromTN

January 19, 2009 11:07 AM | Link to this

Alright I like our pitching staff it is progressing quite well:

2009:

Lowe JJ Vazquez KK Reyes/Morton/Glavine

2010:

Lowe Hudson JJ Vaz KK Hanson

2010 looks beautiful I must say. However, it leads one to ask themselves “self, how are you going to score runs?” Well to answer said question I throw out 3 possible scenarios … let me know what you think:

Scenario 1: Trade for Alex Rios from the Blue Jays (27 years old, just signed a huge contract though so probably not going anywhere)

Scenario 2: Trade for Marcus Thames from the Tigers (compare his numbers to Ludwick, pretty comparable I’d say)

Scenario 3: Trade for Cory Hart from the Brewers (good defensively and KJ type pop)

OH yeah which brings me to my last scenario:

Sign Orlando Hudson, move KJ to left and go from there (KJ can hit folks especially when he’s not thinking about that error he just made the last inning)

Here’s what I would like to see:

Anderson/Schafer Escobar Jones Thames McCann Frenchy KJ Kotchman (Pitcher)

By Random

January 19, 2009 11:10 AM | Link to this

Jim H.: “Now that we’re in a situation where it might make at least a little bit of sense to pursue him, we don’t hear a peep from Terence. What’s up with that?”

“When I have nothing to say, my lips are sealed.

“Say something once, why say it again?

“Psycho killer, Qu’est-ce que c’est?”

By David O'Brien

January 19, 2009 11:25 AM | Link to this

TexasBrave, Bill James also taught a popular course at KU, “Baseball Literature,” every spring semester, or every other spring (I forget now, it’s been a while). I was on the waiting list to get in it one spring, but stopped going after a few classes when i realized nobody was going to drop it and I wasn’t going to get any credit for going.

Rob Neyer attended KU for a couple of years at same time I was there (he was two years behind me, and we overlapped for two years of the Danny Manning Era). Neyer ended up working with James for a while. I didn’t know Neyer, though.

By TexasBrave

January 19, 2009 11:36 AM | Link to this

Well a little further research revealed a sampling of his last years projections for Escobar and Frenchy and he was way off on both. He predicted for some reason Yunel would only play 120 games last year when he actually played in 136, so that skewed his results some. The only prediction he got close on was Escobars 2 triples. He predicted his average would be .307 when it actually was .288.

For Frenchy he totally missed the boat. Jeff had the just about the number of at bats that James said he would but missed with 11 less home runs, 27 less RBI’s, 49 points less on his average and .155 less on his OPS.

I know this is only a small sampling but I think this proves that predicting a players stats is like trying to predict who is going to win the World Series, sometimes you will be right but more times than not you will be wrong.

By TexasBrave

January 19, 2009 11:40 AM | Link to this

Man DOB I would have kept going anyway. Credit would have been nice but to take a class on the sport I love is priceless.

By BravesFanInRockies

January 19, 2009 11:41 AM | Link to this

ROBfromTN

Marcus Thames is nothing like Ryan Ludwick. Each guy hit 37 HR one season. That’s about it.

Ludwick gets on base a lot (career OBP .345) and doesn’t just hit HR (career SLG .512).

Thames is an awful on-base guy, a Francoeur-like .302 OBP and a not bad but not world-beating .498 SLG.

The last thing the Braves need is another corner OF who channels Dave Kingman — or Frenchy.

Terrible idea.

By BravesFanInRockies

January 19, 2009 11:46 AM | Link to this

KC

nolie mentioned it, but I wonder if Bill James gives any credence to the Verducci Effect. Jair pitched 46 more innings in 2008 than 2007, so he would be a candidate to regress this year. Five of the seven guys Verducci identified in that way at the beginning of 2008 — young starters who threw at least 30 more innings than they did the previous season — were either hurt or had really down years.

(FWIW, Cole Hamels pitched 72 more innings in 2008 than 2007, so he’ll be an interesting test of this theory.)

Of course, Jair spent some time on the DL in 2007, so he may be the exception to Verducci’s math. At least we can hope so.

By And

January 19, 2009 11:55 AM | Link to this

So who is going to bat 4th this year?

By Frank

January 19, 2009 11:56 AM | Link to this

Ken Griffey, Jr a Brave?

WOW!! That wouldn’t be a bad idea, altho Jr isn’t what he used to be.

He could provide some pop coming off the bench (altho I have a feeling Jr would want to be a FT player) or play some time in the outfield, to spell Diaz or whoever plays center this season.

DOB, if the rumour is true that the Braves have slight interest in Jr, didn’t Griff Sr play for the Braves once upon a time?

By Dawg Fud

January 19, 2009 11:57 AM | Link to this

don’t want andruw back. thanks for the memories. i don’t like boras.

the only reason andruw wants to play here is because it is his only shot.

hate to sound so metal but…you don’t know what you got until it’s gone.

By Random

January 19, 2009 12:02 PM | Link to this

Some words from Jeff Moore off of DugoutCentral.com:

=============

Poor Adam Dunn. He’s waited his turn. He’s been under team control. He’s gone through the arbitration process. He’s paid the dues that his union has decided are appropriate for him to pay while waiting for his first opportunity for the big payday.

But thanks to some self-serving knuckleheads on Wall Street and a decade full of poor mortgages, Adam Dunn sits at home, counting down the days to Spring Training without a destination in sight.

If you think the economy has hurt the value of your portfolio, take a look at what it has done to the value of Adam Dunn.

Sure, Dunn strikes out a lot. But last time I checked, Alfonso Soriano struck out a lot and that didn’t keep the Cubs from bringing his powerful bat to Wrigley. And Soriano only takes a walk about once a week. Dunn takes one every game.

And yes, Dunn is a slow-prodding defensive liability, but Carlos Lee isn’t exactly Carl Yastrzemski out there in left field, and that didn’t stop the Astros from doling out $100,000,000 to get his bat in their lineup.

But this off-season’s economic state has caused a league-wide staring contest between general managers and the flooded power-hitting leftfielder market, driving the price of said hulking hitters down until someone eventually blinks. Pat Burrell blinked first and got two years at well below market value to go play in the Tropicana Dump.

How long until Dunn blinks?

============= “Jeff Moore is the creator of mlbprospectwatch.com, your one-stop source for news and daily updates on all things related to minor-league baseball and your team’s top prospects.”

By dmack

January 19, 2009 12:11 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Do you think that the Braves should give up Jojo or Charlie for Xavier Nady?

Personally, I think Charlie has a chance to be great and that the Braves should not give up on him.

By BAA BAA BABIP

January 19, 2009 12:17 PM | Link to this

The question is if it doesn’t correlate from year to year any better than 28%, what the hell good is it? Just more mumbo-jumbo from stat-speak high priests BAAAAAAH.

By Shaun

January 19, 2009 12:18 PM | Link to this

BravesFanInRockies, did Verducci just look at one or two seasons? Seven pitchers probably isn’t enough to draw any conclusions.

By DAP

January 19, 2009 12:19 PM | Link to this

bravesfaninrockies i think one thing that should go along with those innings pitched stats with the young guys is average pitches per inning. innings dont mean much if you are talking about a really efficient pitcher, right?

i think hamels might be in trouble, because he pitched way over twice the number of innings he was supposed to. jurjens only surpassed it by about 16 innings, so that bodes well.

By Andy K.

January 19, 2009 12:21 PM | Link to this

Is Junior even willing to play left field?

By Andy K.

January 19, 2009 12:22 PM | Link to this

Plus, I’ve said it time and time again, Bobby Cox and Frank Wren will most likely want a right-handed hitter to place in between Chipper and McCann.

By KC

January 19, 2009 12:29 PM | Link to this

BravesFanInRockies: I don’t really get that. Most starting pitchers throw significantly more innings in their sophomore years than they do in their rookie seasons. I’d venture to say, that’s usually the case. And it’s RARELY the case that starters regress in their sophomore seasons. It happens, but most perform as well or better.

By KC

January 19, 2009 12:39 PM | Link to this

Andy K: I’m pretty sure Griffey has played a fair amount of corner outfield over the past couple years.

The options the Braves are looking at for another big bat all seem to be via trade, and their not likely to add any high salaried hitter at this point. So there’s no reason the Braves couldn’t sign Griffey AND trade for someone like Nady.

Griffey can certainly still play center. That would also give the Braves some insurance (in terms of depth) if Frenchy doesn’t bounce back as expected. If that were the case, Griffey could play RF, and you just fall back on the Anderson/Schafer plan for CF. If Schafer has to wait another year, so be it. He is the one that set the whole process back with his HGH stunt.

Personally, that’s what I’d like to see. Get a big right-handed bat AND Griffey, and this offense would be outstanding.

By KC

January 19, 2009 12:45 PM | Link to this

Also, it might be a risk… but I would consider offering KJ to Baltimore in exchange for Brian Roberts. It’s a risk because Roberts is a free agent at year’s end and is looking for big payday.

But adding Roberts, a switch hitter, would give us a legitimate leadoff hitter and make us less vulnerable to lefties.

I don’t know though… I’m kind of torn on that one, because I still think KJ has the potential to be one of the better offensive second-basemen in the game.

By taylor s

January 19, 2009 12:45 PM | Link to this

DOB… I am going to spring training for the first time this year. Could you recommend a couple good places to eat ? Also have you tried any of those famous all you can eat lobster buffet? Are they any good?

By BigHittas

January 19, 2009 12:48 PM | Link to this

Maybe a stupid observation, but has Druw seen an eye doctor recently? Maybe something as simple as his vision going away gradually? Something lasik could fix? You never know.

I know it’s a popular thing to bash the hades out of anyone, esp. an athelete, that is overweight, but that’s the easy thing to do.

DOB maybe you should ask him? :)

By Lew

January 19, 2009 12:51 PM | Link to this

Listening to XM the other day, I heard an interview with a member of either the White Sox coaching staff or front office (not sure which). Said they weren’t interested in re-signing Griffey. Said he was playing hurt (yet again, ad infinitum) at the end of the year.

Griffey was once one of the greatest players I’d ever seen. He’s not anymore. He’s older, slower, unable to play a good bit of the time and has had serious injury issues for damn near a decade. He is NOT who we need-even on a platoon basis.

By BravesFanInRockies

January 19, 2009 12:51 PM | Link to this

OK, folks —

Here’s the original story by Verducci.

And before you come back with other questions, read the article first, please.

KC, I’m not talking about a sophomore slump. The point is that young pitchers typically don’t make 30+ starts and pitch 200 innings at age 20 or 21. Those who have a much larger work load piled on them from one season to the next tend to not last very long in the majors or often face serious injury problems. See Kerry Wood.

Shaun, he didn’t look at just seven pitchers. He applied the same formula — age under 25 who pitched 30 more innings from one year to the next — and found 17 pitchers in 2005 and 2006 who met the criteria.

“Ten of them broke down, the most seriously hurt being Francisco Liriano, Gustavo Chacin, Adam Loewen, Scott Mathieson and Anibel Sanchez. Eleven of them had worse ERAs, by an average of about a run and a half. Remember, it’s a general rule; there are exceptions, the superlative Justin Verlander being one.”

I’m not saying Verducci is some sort of soothsayer, but he has spotted an interesting trend that has some credibility.

Have at it.

By BravesFanInRockies

January 19, 2009 12:54 PM | Link to this

Oh, and here’s an update, if you will, for 2009. Jair’s on the list, as are Hamels, Lincecum and Pelphrey.

By chris r.

January 19, 2009 12:58 PM | Link to this

I would like to see Alex Rios in our outfield. But I am not sure he is the cleanup hitter the Braves are looking for. And factor in the amount of prospects it would cost, and whether the Jays would actually trade him(which I doubt). It is nice to dream though

By BravesFanInRockies

January 19, 2009 1:07 PM | Link to this

I’ll flog this dead horse one more time.

Steve Avery doesn’t exactly fit the mold, but consider — in 1990 at age 20 he pitched 181 innings total. He went to 210 in 1991, 233 in 1992 and 223 in 1993 and then basically fell off a cliff. He was essentially washed up by his 25th birthday after making 135 major league starts before he turned 24.

Jair has been brought along more judiciously than that, but he should be treated carefully.

Also blows up that whole notion that pitchers who worked with Leo never got injured, huh?

By BigHittas

January 19, 2009 1:12 PM | Link to this

You know if you just consider what Druw will bring to CF defensively by itself, seems to me even if he hits .200 and bats eigth that he’s worth the gamble.

He would save the team runs scored against just with the defense.

By DAP

January 19, 2009 1:12 PM | Link to this

chris r I would like to see Alex Rios in our outfield. But I am not sure he is the cleanup hitter the Braves are looking for.

im sure that he isnt. he is also WAY over paid, and it would be a terrible idea to trade trade for him. the blue jays have gotten themselves in trouble with a couple of outrageous contract to outfielders. (rios and wells)

By Lew

January 19, 2009 1:16 PM | Link to this

I’m not so sure what difference this might make, but Jurrjens pitched 140-142 innings three consecutive years prior to 08 (188IP last year). Seems that this was a case of just normal stretching out. I haven’t researched the others, but I would be willing to bet that those who did succumb to the Verducci Effect, may not have been at a relatively level of innings pitched for as long as JJJ was. I’m betting his strength was already built up a good bit.

By FaninFaytown

January 19, 2009 1:17 PM | Link to this

I’m about to head to kansas city for a concert tonight anyone have a favorite place to eat?

By DAP

January 19, 2009 1:26 PM | Link to this

bravesfaninrockies

avery would be an exception to verducci’s theory, since he increased his workload by around 100 innings in the minors between ‘88 and ‘89, and didnt get hurt until 1994? and then he increased his workload by almost 60 innings from ‘91 to ‘92, and still didnt get hurt until ‘94.

the stats you gave in your post about him ignore minor league IP, and make it look like he followed the verducci formula. hte only thing i see verducci saying is bring them along incremmentally, no matter thier age, if you do that, the pitchers should be fine, based on his theory.

By DAP

January 19, 2009 1:28 PM | Link to this

KC

id say KJ for roberts straight up would not be a good trade.

By KC

January 19, 2009 1:29 PM | Link to this

BigHittas: Well, your viewpoint seems to be based on the premise that he’s still the defensive player he was a few years ago. I’m not sure that’s the case. He just had a knee surgery, and the popular believe is that, even before the surgery, his range had begun to decline.

That said, if AJ is healthy and has lost weight, and is 80-90% of what he was… he’s still the best in the league defensively.

But I he’s not going to save enough runs to make up for a .200 average. No way. If he hit .250 with 24 homers and 85 RBI… that’s not as good as his old .265, 30-45 homers and 100 RBI… but it would do just fine if he’s playing gold glove defense.

I’ve gone back and forth on this… but after enough thought, I’d have to say, I’m all for signing AJ at 400k and giving him a shot. You’d have to leave someone else off the 40-man roster, who could then be claimed on waivers, but I wouldn’t lose sleep over leaving Clint Sammons unprotected.

It’s only a 400k risk. So however unlikely, you have to think there’s a >chance< that a healthy 31 year-old can get it going again.

By KC

January 19, 2009 1:37 PM | Link to this

BravesFanInRockies: Jair didn’t pitch 200 innings, and as Lew pointed out, he’d pitched a pretty good number of innings at the minor league level. His 08 innings total wasn’t a huge jump.

And keep in mind also that ground ball pitchers don’t use as many pitches per inning, on average, as a typical starter.

It’s been a long time sing I believed in a Braves starter as much as I believe in Jair. He’s got a fastball he can run up into the mid-90’s, a fantastic changeup, and a couple other quality pitches. He has outstanding control, and an excellent approach and mental makeup.

I think this kid is going to be a top-of-rotation starter for a long time. And again, I’ll put a $20 on Jurrjens with Bill James or anyone else who is interested in a friendly wager.

By BravesFanInRockies

January 19, 2009 1:38 PM | Link to this

DAP

Avery’s 1990 stats include minor leagues — he split time between Atlanta and the minors that year.

Not even Verducci says that formula’s infallible. But it does seem to apply more than half the time. At the least it could explain why some young pitchers have breakout seasons and then struggle.

Lew,

That’s a good point about Jair’s fairly regular workload before 2008. In fact, he spent a brief stint on the DL in 2007, otherwise he might have gone 150-160 innings that year, bringing him along at a healthy pace.

By DAP

January 19, 2009 1:45 PM | Link to this

bravesfaninrockies

ok. but avery should not be in the convo. he increased by 100 innings early on and was fine for 4 or 5 more years. just wondering why you brought him up.

By BigHittas

January 19, 2009 1:46 PM | Link to this

10-4 on your point KC, I understand.

I’m just thinking back on Otis and how poor a hitter he was but stellar defensively. Of course Otis gave you the leadoff speed and stolen bases as well, but like you say if Druw can bat around .250 and hit 20 jacks, he’s worth the chance in my view.

By ppaddy123

January 19, 2009 1:49 PM | Link to this

HEY RANDOM

Just got back to catch up and see if anything might be stirring in Braves nation and I saw the “poke” you served at me yesterday. Sorry I didn’t respond until now, but I have a LIFE! Dude, what about you? What’s up with you spending ALL of your time on here? Do you have a job? A family? Good Gosh man, even DOB doesn’t spend the amount of time on here as you, and he’s the host!! GET A FRIGGING LIFE!!!

By BravesFanInRockies

January 19, 2009 1:49 PM | Link to this

KC

I never said Jair pitched 200 innings, it was simply a generalization.

Did you read the original Verducci article? I recommend doing so before criticizing his observation.

In case you didn’t, here’s what he said:

“The unofficial industry standard is that no young pitcher should throw more than 30 more innings than he did the previous season. It’s a general rule of thumb, and one I’ve been tracking for about a decade. When teams violate the incremental safeguard, it’s amazing how often they pay for it.”

The age limit he used, arbitrary to be sure, is 25.

By David O'Brien

January 19, 2009 1:51 PM | Link to this

Braves have also signed Gonzo to a one-year deal, avoiding arbitration with him (they signed Diaz a couple days ago, but just announced that one today along with Gonzalez signing).

That leaves only Francoeur, Kelly Johnson and Casey Kotchman unsigned among arb-eligibles.

By Reality

January 19, 2009 1:52 PM | Link to this

So the Braves signed Mike Gonzalez to only a one-year deal but locked up Omar Infante? That’s kinda dumb.

By BravesFanInRockies

January 19, 2009 1:58 PM | Link to this

DAP

Just brought him up to suggest that Verducci may be onto more than he suggests. Young pitchers who get dramatically heavier workloads in their teens or early 20s may not break down right away, but could be injury risks even so.

This theory would take a lot more research to test, however. Think Dontrelle Willis, who became a workhorse for the Marlins at age 21 (going from 94 IP at age 19 to 158 IP at 20 to 198 at age 21) and didn’t collapse until four years later.

By KC

January 19, 2009 1:59 PM | Link to this

Lew: Griffey wouldn’t be valuable in a platoon situation??? There’s NO QUESTION he would be valuable… PROVIDED we got him at the right price.

If we could get Griffey for a few million, I’d sign him yesterday. The health risk is worth the reward at a few million. It was just the year before last that he hit 30-plus homers. He’s still an above average center-fielder, and would be GREAT for a left-fielder.

By MGL

January 19, 2009 2:00 PM | Link to this

According to MLBTR, Mike Gonzalez signed for $3.45 for 2009.

By Steve from OH

January 19, 2009 2:00 PM | Link to this

nolie, I did briefly read that article, but I’ve got a few concerns:

The guy said himself that his study wasn’t a random sample, and the sample size was small.

Also, I’m not really seeing the usefulness of predicting future BABIP, since (to my knowledge) BABIP doesn’t, in itself, tell you anything about a player’s on-field performance, only whether the player was lucky or unlucky in the season in question. So, in that sense, shouldn’t it make sense that BABIP doesn’t correlate well year-to-year because it should (ideally) regress to the individual hitter’s mean?

Granted, hitter BABIP is a much less exact science than pitcher BABIP (which I put more stock into), and there are a lot of unexplained variables in there. I’d like to add that I’m not mathematically inclined, and if I’ve made a mistake in there somewhere, point it out. Always eager to expand my knowledge.

Lew, KC, BFIR:

Of those on that list, I’m not too worried about Jurrjens because he wasn’t too terribly far over the 30 IP mark and it seems that his mechanics are pretty solid. Lincecum’s mechanics also seem solid, but he was a little farther over the 30 IP mark, so I’m a little more worried about him, but if he regresses a little, he’s what, going to have a 3.00-ish ERA? I’d take that.

I’m a bit more worried about Hamels, in that he’s had a little injury trouble before and that Chris O’Leary does have a few misgivings about his mechanics. He’s one to keep an eye on. As is Mike Pelfrey, although I’m more worried (yeah, “worried,” hehe) about his low K/9 rates, high BB/9 and below-average K/BB. That in itself should point to a bit of a regression. As for Danks, Lester and Billingsley, I haven’t seen enough of them to draw any conclusions, though I am rooting for Billingsley, a local OH boy.

By THE BEAR

January 19, 2009 2:00 PM | Link to this

KC, you and I sure do see a lot of things alike. I wrote last spring that Jurrjens was “the real deal” and I believe that to be even more true now. He is destined to be a good one.

As for Andruw I also want him to have a shot but at a minimum cost to the Braves. If it means Sammons had to go on the risk sheet then that would probably work. Since any team that exercised a waiver on him would have to carry him on their major league roster it is doubtful the Braves would lose him. However, I would not be amenable to them risking anyone with potential of making the big club some day. Sammons has little of that potential.

Andruw did sound drunk during that interview and Chipper’s comment about him still pulling everything gives me pause. If he continues to refuses to take any coaching I strongly doubt he will ever make another Major league roster and keep it for any length of time. He is about as bullheaded as anyone I can remember…just refuses to accept that anyone knows as much as he knows about hitting, even Chipper. Now that is bullheaded.

By DAP

January 19, 2009 2:01 PM | Link to this

by the way, the braves just signed mike gonzalez to avoid arbitration. about $3.5mil.

By DAP

January 19, 2009 2:03 PM | Link to this

He’s [griffey jr] still an above average center-fielder, KC

im not to sure about that.

bravesfaninrockies gotcha.

By Steve from OH

January 19, 2009 2:03 PM | Link to this

Reality, you know that the player also has to agree to a multi-year deal, right?

By THE BEAR

January 19, 2009 2:09 PM | Link to this

Reality, did it occur to you (before calling someone dumb) that Gonzalez just might not have wanted to sigh more than a one year contract? After all, with closers being worth more than other relievers surely he has his eye on a big payoff some day. Of course the economy may well mess up his calculations but it is still his option.

By Patrick

January 19, 2009 2:09 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Had you heard at all if the Braves discussed signing Gonzo beyond this season or are they just going to let him walk after 09?

By BravesFanInRockies

January 19, 2009 2:12 PM | Link to this

Steve from OH,

Agreed. I think you take it easy with JJ, which should be possible now that Lowe and Vazquez are on the staff. If you get another 32-35 starts and 210 effective innings out of him, we’ll all be happy fans.

Besides, for JJ to have a full-blown Verducci year, his ERA would have to balloon to about 5 or he’d have to spend a lot of time on the DL.

Needless to say, we don’t want either of those to happen.

By mbatl

January 19, 2009 2:16 PM | Link to this

KC, so you want to sign Griffey and Andruw… now all we need is Edmonds to put 3 of the greatest CF of all time in one outfield! What’s Willie Mays up to these days?

I really hope the Braves have something a little more aggressive in mind - Ludwick, Dunn, Swisher, even Dye or Nady (though I’m not big on 1-year rentals) or someone we haven’t even really thought about yet.

Reality, “So the Braves signed Mike Gonzalez to only a one-year deal but locked up Omar Infante? That’s kinda dumb.”

I don’t think it’s dumb at all. Gonzo is great when healthy, but he’s never been reliable. He’s been hurt in (at least) each of the last 4 years. Hopefully, the TJ surgery clears all of that up, but I wouldn’t throw at him what it would take to sign him longterm until he gets through a year with 65-75 IP and no pain.

By David O'Brien

January 19, 2009 2:20 PM | Link to this

Don’t know the contract figures yet, but I’m guessing Diaz is around $1.2 mill and Gonzo probably about $3.5.

By Steve from OH

January 19, 2009 2:30 PM | Link to this

John Sickels on Randall Delgado:

“A Panamanian signed in 2006, Delgado made his North American debut in 2008, posting an excellent K/IP ratio for Danville thanks to his 90-94 MPH sinker. He has the size and physical projectability to throw harder as he fills out his frame, which might give him an elite fastball in time. His breaking ball and changeup are erratic, though both have promise, and his command needs work: his walk rate was too high. But for an 18-year-old international player making his pro debut in the Appalachian League, Delgado did quite well. There are good things to like here, and he is a possible breakthrough candidate for 2009. Grade B-.”

By David O'Brien

January 19, 2009 2:31 PM | Link to this

Patrick, Braves haven’t made any decisions on Gonzo for future. They want to see what he does this year, whether he can stay healthy, etc. A year ago they signed another reliever (Soriano) with previous elbow problems to a two-year deal that pays him $6.1 mill this season, and that deal hasn’t worked out so well….

BigHittas: Regarding your speculation about Andruw’s vision — players get comprehensive eye exams every spring training. Don’t you think the Dodgers, paying him $32.2 mill in a two-year contract, might have had him go see an eye doctor once more during the season if there was any reason to believe his eyesight might be a problem? Not being a smarta$$, but don’t you think, for that matter, that Andruw or his agent, Scott Boras, who has access to the best doctors imaginable, might have thought to have Andruw’s eyes checked last year when he was on the DL recovering from knee surgery?

I just find it interesting when some believe they’ve uncovered the most obvious explanation for a player’s failure, an explanation they apparently believe that neither the player, despite having the worst experience of his career and being booed mercilessly, nor the team, so frustrated that it ultimately agreed to pay him $21.1 mill to go away, would ever have thought to explore.

“Hey, maybe we should have his eyes checked?” GM says to Dodgers medical person. “Nah, it’s too tough getting an appointment with the eye doc,” he replies. “That guy’s too busy. Let’s just keep paying this guy to stink and hope things improve. Here, I’ve got an extra pair of reading glasses he can try.”

By Yars

January 19, 2009 2:33 PM | Link to this

Why in the hell would the Braves want Manny? The guy has an attitude problem, doesn’t hustle, & has an ego. I’ve seen many BoSox games on tv where he’ll hit a grounder to 2B, & stops running halfway there, or where a ball will be hit to him in LF, & it will drop right in front of him, ect.. I’m tired of hearing all this, ‘that’s just Manny being Manny’ bull. Sure, he puts up impressive numbers every season, but the excess baggage just ain’t worth it. I blame his past managers. Who ever was his manager while he was with the Tribe, Francona, & even Torre. now playing: seventeen by ladytron*.

By Wayne in Utah

January 19, 2009 2:57 PM | Link to this

KC I am not too sure about a KJ for Roberts trade, although you would have to consider it for the positives you mention. KJ could have a breakout year in 2009. Who knows?

Does anybody else think the Cubbies really screwed up by going for Milton Bradley. I wouldn’t see him playing more than 130 games. This might be three OF screw ups in a row (Soriano, Fookoo dome eh and Bradley) Are any of those guys worth the bucks they are making?

I have it on good authority, that Andruw’s problems for the past few years is “the shoes”.

:-)

By Wayne in Utah

January 19, 2009 2:59 PM | Link to this

Anybody else wishing we would have made a play for Mark DeRosa? A deal would have probably had to be worked around KJ and some others from both sides.

By Dan R

January 19, 2009 3:04 PM | Link to this

Last year when U Kno Who was on the blog, somebody asked him how his feet were and if he was going to get surgery for his bunions. The gist of the response was, “no, I got bigger shoes, now everything is fine”. It kinda made me cringe considering all the DL stints and/or discussion of the foot problems for about 10 years. I do wonder sometimes about what gets missed by the team doctors.

By csg

January 19, 2009 3:11 PM | Link to this

all things considered I wouldnt trade KJ straight up for Derosa

By BravesFanInRockies

January 19, 2009 3:14 PM | Link to this

Wayne in Utah,

Yep, I’m not at all happy DeRo got away for so little. I think the Braves could have offered a couple of prospects who might actually play a significant amount of time in the majors, unlike the guys Cleveland sent to Chicago. The Tribe really got away with highway robbery.

By atlbravesfan44

January 19, 2009 3:16 PM | Link to this

not being a smart @$$??? LOL

By Yars

January 19, 2009 3:20 PM | Link to this

DOB……have you heard the new U2 single, ‘Get On Your Boots’? It’s not too bad. Your typical up-tempo rock song. If you compare it to the top 40-mainstream s** of today, it’s really not too bad. Sounds like something off their 1997 album, Pop, minus the electronics. now playing blue jean by david bowie.

By NickD

January 19, 2009 3:20 PM | Link to this

DOB, can you offer an educated guess on what the other 3 guys will get from the Braves, or arbitration, whichever route they choose? Any thoughts on whether the Francouer situation could get ugly, considering his desire to go to arbitration rather than sign a contract a year ago?

By Fan-coeur (Frenchy has heart)

January 19, 2009 3:21 PM | Link to this

Heard Martin Prado is doing well in Venezuela, I wish I could get those stats…Ditto for Vasquez in Puerto Rico…does anybody know where I can find the stats?

By ppaddy123

January 19, 2009 3:29 PM | Link to this

By all accounts, Mark DeRossa is a great guy. However, his success as a MLB player has come away from the Braves. He really didn’t make much of an impact while here. Suggesting we “gave him away” just simply isn’t true when you look at what he did while he was here. Would he have had the same success had he stayed? Who knows. It might have taken someone’s influence on him outside the Braves organization for him to be the player he is today.

By Wayne in Utah

January 19, 2009 3:41 PM | Link to this

ppaddy123 BFIR was talking about DeRosa getting away from the Cubbies for too little. We were both lamenting that we (the Braves) didn’t get a shot at him.

You are correct, Mark didn’t really come into his own until a couple years after he arrived in Texas.

By BigHittas

January 19, 2009 3:41 PM | Link to this

LOL on the ‘eye exam’ DOB.

I’m sure eyes are checked on a regular basis, but it doesn’t take much loss to make a BIG difference and whether or not I’m in denial about Druw’s skills isn’t the issue; you addressed the loss of performance issue earlier ;) and of course I would have no idea if the eyesight issue would be a big one to Druw’s agent, etc.

As to your point about the Dodgers and spending their $ wisely, well….didn’t the govt. just give the banking industry billions of dollars?

My reason for asking the question about eyesight is to suggest that maybe something very simple was missed. It could happen. If Druw has been reluctant to change his approach to hitting, who is to say he complied with going to the doctor instructions?

Just wild-a$$ specultion an my part, obviously.

By Yars

January 19, 2009 3:44 PM | Link to this

Man, I swear, we have some on here whose life will not be complete until Kelly Johnson is traded. What some of you have against KJ is beyond me. What can be said, that already hasn’t? Some of this trash talk goes back to 2007. Some acting like he hit .230 last season. Diss his defense all you want because it’s really not as bad as you say it is. The bottom line is this, I’d rather have KJ as our everyday 2B than Prado. I don’t care what Prado is hitting in winter ball. It’s winter ball. Think about it. We’re talking about winter ball. Also, quit thinking about Orlando Hudson & Brian Roberts. Neither will be in a Braves uniform this season. I can’t see Wren trading KJ for an Ankiel or some mediocre LF. KJ just may be our opening day 2B whether some of you like it or not! Hell, I got him on my fantasy team. How ‘bout them apples? now playing the soft parade by the doors.

By JB

January 19, 2009 3:51 PM | Link to this

Prado is on Rehab Assignment

http://mlb.mlb.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Martin%20Prado&pos=2B&sid=l135&t=p_pbp&pid=445988

By BigHittas

January 19, 2009 3:51 PM | Link to this

yari,

You can put me in the trade KJ pile too. Nothing personal against KJ, he has mad streak hitting skills, but he isn’t a great 2B-man IMO. I’d much rather see Prado there everyday, anyday.

By JB

January 19, 2009 3:55 PM | Link to this

Atlanta Braves Matt Diaz of 3.157 (re-signed 1/16/09, 1 year/$1.2375M) Jeff Francouer of 3.088 Mike Gonzalez lhp 5.014 (re-signed 1/19/09, 1 year/$3.45M) Omar Infante inf 5.120 (re-signed 1/12/09, 2 years/$4.325M) Kelly Johnson inf 3.127 Casey Kotchman 1b 3.144

By Efrim

January 19, 2009 3:56 PM | Link to this

Few things after quickly reading through the posts:

Ken Griffey Jr. is not a good CF. This isn’t 1998. Did anyone see him playing CF for the White Sox? Awful.

Trading three years of Kelly Johnson for one season of Brian Roberts makes no sense at all for the Braves.

My hope is that the Braves don’t trade a very good pitching prospect like Cole Rohrbough or Jeff Locke for Xavier Nady. I don’t mind trading for Nady, despite his career .317 OBP against RHP. Braves need power against left handed pitching. Nady can provide that. If they acquire him, I just hope they stick Heap in the 4 hole and maybe Kelly in the 5.

By ppaddy123

January 19, 2009 4:01 PM | Link to this

By Wayne in Utah ppaddy123 BFIR was talking about DeRosa getting away from the Cubbies for too little. We were both lamenting that we (the Braves) didn’t get a shot at him.

OK……I’ll remove the foot from my mouth now…. The cubs have been raked over the coals by just about everyone for making that trade. DeRosa deserves to play everyday. We would have had to move Kelly Johnson to bring him on board. I can’t see where that would be a good idea. They’re basically the same players, but KJ costs much less.

By Steve from OH

January 19, 2009 4:02 PM | Link to this

Why would we trade KJ for Roberts? People think this is a good idea? You’re jackin’ me, right?

By Al

January 19, 2009 4:10 PM | Link to this

Hey DOB! Regarding Andruw ;) Do you think that maybe he has been playing this whole time with his shoes on the wrong feet. He looks uncomfortable up there. I just tried taking a swing with my shoes on the wrong feet and it felt wierd!

Call him and ask. I tell you what. I’m such a big fan of yours, you can take the credit if that turns out to be the problem!

Also might want to check and make sure he is holding the handle end of the bat and not the fat end when swinging.

By prattvillenolzfan

January 19, 2009 4:14 PM | Link to this

Saw the headline that Diaz & Gonzalez avoided arbritation and that the Braves were still negotiating with Johnson & Franceour…

What are the negotiations regarding Franceour….If I was Wren, I’d tell that spoiled prima donna that this is what your getting….You don’t like tough 5hit….hit the road….

I surely hope and pray that Franceour and his agent are posturing the Braves for more money. He surely CAN NOT think he is worth more than the Braves are willing to pay him….After this past year, he should be lucky he’s still on the Braves 40 man roster….

Give Johnson & Kotchman what they want…..

By car3boogie

January 19, 2009 4:18 PM | Link to this

DOB… Eye Dr. can be expensive, then the cost of contacts or Frames and glasses not too long before you get deep into that 22 MILLION dollars. The Braves could send him to Wally World they have a special on eye visits this month do not tell the other teams. I think he needs to keep his elbow up, that’s what most of the Dads at the Little League games say.

By N8

January 19, 2009 4:23 PM | Link to this