AJC > Sports > Braves > Blog > Archives > 2009 > January > 11 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.UST. Hanson, D. Lowe … continued
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Blogmeister note: Just reposting this blog until I can get a new one up, since other one crashed at around 1,000 posts, as usual. Carry on….
In the aftermath of Thursday’s John Smoltz terminus in Terminus (that was the original name of Atlanta), as Smoltz stories were splashed all over the newspaper waiting at the end of my driveway, it was interesting to see the cover of the Baseball America issue waiting in my mailbox.
The cover boy is none other than Tommy Hanson, possibly the most talented pitching prospect to come through the Braves system since … well, a long time.
Hanson is the top-rated Braves prospect by BA, which has its top 10 prospects list for every National League East team in this new issue. The cover reads, “Righthander Tommy Hanson dominates on his way to Atlanta and ascends to the top of the Braves’ prospect list.”
Most of you have already seen the list, but for those who haven’t: 1. Hanson, 2. OF Jason Heyward, 3. OF Jordan Schafer, 4. OF Gorkys Hernandez, 5. 1B Freddie Freeman, 6. LHP Cole Rohrbough, 7. LHP Jeff Locke, 8. RHP Julio Teheran, 9. RHP Kris Medlen, 10. RHP Craig Kimbrel.
I wouldn’t disagree with that list, from what I’ve seen with my own eyes and heard from scouts and team officials, though I do think Hanson and Heyward are probably interchangeable in the top two spots, and Schafer and Hernandez could probably go in either order in the next two.
Which brings us to this year’s starting rotation, which I think will include Hanson at some point, probably sooner than later (i.e., I think he’ll be up by early summer).
But that’s not what most of you want to know right now. Right now, you want to know who’s going to hold down the No. 1 spot, since an opening-day assignment for Javier Vazquez does not exactly get the pulses jumping across Braves Nation. Not that he’s bad, he’s just not a No. 1, not your classic opening-day starter.
Derek Lowe, he’d be a signigicant upgrade in that role, and provide the Braves a 200-inning veteran who could be penciled in for 15 or more wins. Check out what the sinkerballer did last year in L.A., with that slipshod infield defense _ 14-11 with a 3.24 ERA in 211 innings, including 6-1 with a 1.27 ERA in his last 10 starts.
The Braves’ infield defense should rank among the NL’s top third, at least, with SS Yunel Escobar and Gold Glove-caliber 1B Casey Kotchman. Chipper’s still a solid defensive player, and baseball people will tell you Kelly Johnson isn’t the liability some here make him out to be.
Now, whether the Braves could provide enough run support to boost Lowe’s win totals, that’s another story.
But anyway, Lowe and his agent, Scott Boras, visited for about five hours — yes, five hours — on Thursday with Braves staff and officials at Turner Field, a group that included GM Frank Wren, manager Bobby Cox, pitching coach Roger McDowell and CEO Terry McGuirk. Lowe was accompanied by Boras and one of the powerful agent’s top assistants.
From all accounts, everyone came out of the marathon session feeling good about the potential match of Lowe and the Braves, though until the Braves made their offer, which was expected today, it probably won’t be clear just how good a chance they have of landing the best available unsigned free agent.
The Braves pulled out the stops, from what I hear, preparing a video presentation for Lowe and Atlanta-would-love-to-have-you messages from several country music stars (he’s a big country fan) including Alan Jackson.
McDowell talked to him at length, as did Cox, who’s known Lowe since they were on a touring all-star team that went to Japan eight years ago. The Braves emphasized their strengths, including the pitching depth in their minor league organization, and also noted their weaknesses and how Lowe could help shore up a big one.
It’s almost certainly going to take a four-year deal, perhaps with a vesting fifth-year option, for the Braves to get the 35-year-old Lowe, who is also being pursued by the Mets and Phillies, with at least a couple of other teams expected to make bids.
The Mets already had floated a three-year, $36 mill offer for the right-hander, but Boras last week indicated that offer was never formally presented and that GM Omar Minaya knew it wouldn’t be enough for Lowe.
The Braves were expected to make an offer today, but they’re in lockdown mode right now regarding comments about potential targets, after so many pursuits this winter already blew up in their faces. They want Lowe, and badly. The Braves know they probably need him and another, lesser piece or two added to their current roster to have any shot of competing for a playoff spot out of a tough division.
Would four years at $15 mill per year get it done? Not sure. But it just might, considering no other offers have surfaced for Lowe. But if the Braves wait around for long and allow, say, the Chicago Cubs to get involved after their ownership situation is resolved, then the price could certainly rise.
You might have heard, Boras is pretty good and drumming up higher bids than anyone thought possible for his clients, but I’ve got to think that even he’d be hard-pressed to get much more than the above figures for Lowe in this economy.
Lowe’s a Fort Myers, Fla., resident, primarily because that’s where his ex-wife lives with their kids. He’s recently remarried, to a former Los Angeles television-news personality, and whether or not she’d be big on Atlanta, or whether that’s a big factor, is unclear. The glamour of New York and all that, you know.
Since he’s a Boras client, this could drag out. Then again, it’s already the second week of January, and even a Boras client has got to start getting a little itchy at this point, wanting to know where he’s going to be moving in a few months and where he’ll be going to spring training next month.
Ironically, ot coincidentally, or whatever, Lowe and Smoltz are two of only three pitchers in history to have a 20-win season and a 40-save season (Dennis Eckersley’s the other), and Smoltz’s signing with Boston might have improrved the chances that Lowe ends up in Atlanta.
Because not only are the Red Sox seemingly less likely to get in the Lowe bidding now, but the Braves are also probably a little more desperate than they were a couple of days ago, when they’d already scheduled the Lowe visit and had no idea it would come on the day that Smoltz’s momentous decision would be the talk of Atlanta.
Stay tuned. The Lowe matter could be interesting in the coming days.
Kawakami update: Heard today (Saturday) from someone who would know that the Braves have reached an agreement with the the 33-year-old former winner of the Japanese equivelent of the Cy Young Award, and it looks like a deal could be announced in the next few days provided he passes a physical Monday.
Other teams that were considered to be among four finalists for Kenshin Kawakami are now saying they’ve been led to believe he’s going to the Braves. And to think, less than two weeks ago Japanese papers were reporting that Kawakami had narrowed his list to three finalists and that the Braves weren’t one of them.
Kawakami, a wily right-hander, is projected as a solid middle-rotation starter in the majors at this stage of his career.
He isn’t likely to be an innings-eater at this stage of his career. Although Kawakami pitched a career-high 215 innings in 2006, he totaled 167-1/3 innings in 2007 and only 117-1/3 in 2008, when he missed time with a back strain and reportedly had shoulder soreness.
He was part of a six-man this past season in Japan, pitching basically once a week. (Conditioning for pitchers in Japan hasn’t been considered as crucial as it is in the States. Japanese teams sometimes use six-man rotations, and most Japanese pitchers make fewer than 30 starts.)
Can he help the Braves? Unquestionably. If they could land Lowe or trade for something at least close to a top-of-the-rotation starter, the addition of Kawakami to a rotation that already includes Jair Jurrejens and Javier Vazquez, with several others competing for a fifth spot and Tommy Hanson waiting in the wings … well, things could get a lot more optimistic in a hurry.
But until they also land a Lowe or someone else of a top-half-of-rotation quality, the Braves still have a major question mark in that rotation, not to mention the glaring need for another outfield bat.
No updates on that — I mentioned the lockdown mode at Braves offices — but they’re still exploring and talking about free agents and trade targets, including bigger names that suddenly seem more affordable, such as Adam Dunn.
They like Xavier Nady, and the Yankees want to trade Nady instead of Nick Swisher, but Boras represents Nady and teams know that means he’ll go to free agency at the end of the 2009 season when his contract’s up. Can’t see the Braves, or any team, giving up significant talent to get Nady in a one-year rental, but if than Yankees would take less than expected in return, it’s possible.
The Yankees’ Nick Swisher isn’t as good as Nady but might be more attractive to many teams (not necessarily the Braves) because he’d be under a team’s control for three or four more years. But that’s the same reason the Yankees seem less likely to trade him.
Wren speaks: In case you guys missed it last night, I posted some comments from Wren on the Smoltz matter after the GM called me back at about 8 p.m.
This is what he said:
“We appreciate all John’s done for us over the years. We’ve been very consistent since the end of the season — I stated that our mission, our goal, was to rebuid our pitching staff, and once we had a good understanding and knowledge of how far the rehab had gone with John and Tommy, we would make them an offer. We followed up with that and made an offer prior to Christmas to John.”
On the Braves offering less guaranteed money than Red Sox:
“I just think there’s still a lot of information we don’t have, from standpoint that John himself will tell you he’snot going to be able to pitch until June. That’s still five or six months of rehab. We just don’t know if he’ll be able to pitch again. We hoped he could. Our offer was indicative of that, that unknown.”
“We’ve always had the same feeling — if John could pitch, we wanted him back. And I think our offer was such, if John could pitch … it was a similar incentive-based offer that if he could pitch he would make a similar amount. Probably the biggest difference was if he can’t pitch, he would make more in Boston. If he can pitch he’d make the same in both places. And a lot of that is based on when he can pitch and how much of the season is lost.”
On whether the Red Sox could afford to guarantee more, etc:
“Yes, but it was never that we didn’t want John back or a lack of respect for John. Our priority was to have a pitching staff that would allow us to go into the season not concerned about rehabs and injuries and the things that set us back in 2008. And that still stands.”
On how tough this kind of thing is for a GM:
“No question. Anybody that sits in this chair will tell you the most difficult decision you make are with aging stars, plain and simple. Because you respect them, you want them to be a part of your organization forever. But the reality is, they’re getting older and they’re not the same.”
”BIG IRON” by Marty Robbins
To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day
Hardly spoke to folks around him didn’t have too much to say
No one dared to ask his business no one dared to make a slip
for the stranger there among them had a big iron on his hip
Big iron on his hip
It was early in the morning when he rode into the town
He came riding from the south side slowly lookin’ all around
He’s an outlaw loose and running came the whisper from each lip
And he’s here to do some business with the big iron on his hip
big iron on his hip
In this town there lived an outlaw by the name of Texas Red
Many men had tried to take him and that many men were dead
He was vicious and a killer though a youth of twenty four
And the notches on his pistol numbered one an nineteen more
One and nineteen more
Now the stranger started talking made it plain to folks around
Was an Arizona ranger wouldn’t be too long in town
He came here to take an outlaw back alive or maybe dead
And he said it didn’t matter he was after Texas Red
After Texas Red
Wasn’t long before the story was relayed to Texas Red
But the outlaw didn’t worry men that tried before were dead
Twenty men had tried to take him twenty men had made a slip
Twenty one would be the ranger with the big iron on his hip
Big iron on his hip
The morning passed so quickly it was time for them to meet
It was twenty past eleven when they walked out in the street
Folks were watching from the windows every-body held their breath
They knew this handsome ranger was about to meet his death
About to meet his death
There was forty feet between them when they stopped to make their play
And the swiftness of the ranger is still talked about today
Texas Red had not cleared leather fore a bullet fairly ripped
And the ranger’s aim was deadly with the big iron on his hip
Big iron on his hip
It was over in a moment and the folks had gathered round
There before them lay the body of the outlaw on the ground
Oh he might have went on living but he made one fatal slip
When he tried to match the ranger with the big iron on his hip
Big iron on his hip
Comments
Commenting is now closed for this entry.
By JOEBRAVE
January 11, 2009 11:32 PM | Link to this
First finally!!! Let Tommy Hanson have a crack at it!!!
By bravefaninok
January 11, 2009 11:34 PM | Link to this
sign Lowe and are rotation looks competative….go bravos
By TN-MAN
January 11, 2009 11:36 PM | Link to this
DOB any word on the money Kawakami is going to get? Or when the press conference may be?
By Chop Chop
January 11, 2009 11:37 PM | Link to this
I don’t know if anyone else posted this…
Tom Glavine talks to Murray Chass
There are some interesting little comments in there by Glavine.
By T-Rock
January 11, 2009 11:41 PM | Link to this
Just give Lowe what he wants. God knows the Braves have got the money to spend since no one else wants it.
By David O'Brien
January 11, 2009 11:43 PM | Link to this
TN-MAN, already answered this, but again: I don’t know for sure, but I’m anticipating about $7 mill per season, give or take a mill.
Press conference unlikely for Monday. He’s getting his physical Monday, so probably do physical Tuesday, maybe not even until Wed. morning.
By N Nine
January 11, 2009 11:44 PM | Link to this
DOB good call on refreshing the blog! (works great during the busy times too)
Get Lowe and we are set on the pitching.
There should be a decent bat we can acquire
then play ball in 84days!!!
By Knuckleball
January 11, 2009 11:47 PM | Link to this
So if the braves are competing at the trade deadline and need an arm… let’s just trade for Smoltz… again… we need to call up Doyle and see if we can send him to the Sox ha ha
By Canadian Braves Fan
January 11, 2009 11:48 PM | Link to this
Hey Dave, if the Braves sign Lowe, do they push harder to get a Dunn/Dye type player?
By TN-MAN
January 11, 2009 11:51 PM | Link to this
Looks like a slow day on Lowe news. Bowman is reporting that they may make their first formal offer tomorrow. Hopefully we can land him in the next couple of days.
By David O'Brien
January 11, 2009 11:55 PM | Link to this
Anybody see Mickey Rourke at Golden Globe Awards tonight? Wow. Dude’s a trip, and that’s putting it mildly.
By jed
January 11, 2009 11:56 PM | Link to this
missed today on the blog (before it crashed).
any new Lowe developments?
By Serge
January 11, 2009 11:59 PM | Link to this
The Boston Globe says we are an “emerging location for Dunn”
What do you think Dave?
By Canadian Braves Fan
January 12, 2009 12:00 AM | Link to this
would like to see Braves wrap up the Lowe signing quick and then focus on power bat
By ex Braves fan
January 12, 2009 12:03 AM | Link to this
JOEBRAVE,
Through hard work, focus, determination, and believing in oneself, dreams can be accomplished.
I’m glad to see you can check one off your list. I see big things in your future, JOEBRAVE.
Today you’re First to post on a recycled blog on the AJC website during the Braves worst offseason in history. Who knows what tomorrow holds…
By GTI in Chicago
January 12, 2009 12:07 AM | Link to this
Interesting Item on SI.com tonight. Rangers shortstop Michael Young has requested a trade rather than allow the team to move him to 3rd base next year.
The reason they want to move him to 3rd? They are ready to promote SS Elvis Andrus to the majors next season.
This, even though Young is a Gold Glove, 5-time All-Star at SS ever since A-Rod was send away to the Yuks.
Maybe this year we’ll get to see if Andrus was really worth all the hubbub. Could be painful if his is, but still interesting.
By RC
January 12, 2009 12:08 AM | Link to this
I’d love the Braves to “wrap up the Lowe signing” quickly as much as anyone, but I think it’s just very unrealistic to think that’s going to happen. Say what you will about Scott Boras, but he is a very smart man, and I’m sure he is aware that Lowe has nothing to gain by signing quickly. He’s got 2 division rivals both desperate for a starting pitcher, and Lowe is far and away the best option on the market. Boras will try to run his price up as far as possible before signing. The best hope the Braves have is that the Mets bungle the situation by announcing a “deadline” or some other type of ultimatum that will send Lowe to sign with the Braves.
By taylor s
January 12, 2009 12:10 AM | Link to this
DOB … think the Braves would have any interest in Micheal Young? Aparently he demanded a trade. I would think hes a good enough second basemen to try the Furcal plan of action.
Also any interest in those 2 Cuban players who defected recently? Marti and Gomez, ones a pitcher and ones a center fielder. They are supposedly MLB ready. I was thinking Yunel being here could make Atlanta pretty attractive.
By mbatl
January 12, 2009 12:11 AM | Link to this
If we’re seriously negotiating with Lowe and Dunn, and still in contention for Ohman, Liberty’s checkbook must be pretty much open… ‘cause Lowe and Dunn would put us well past $40 mil spent for the offseason.
By Bubdylan
January 12, 2009 12:12 AM | Link to this
“Today you’re First to post on a recycled blog on the AJC website during the Braves worst offseason in history. Who knows what tomorrow holds… “
By Canadian Braves Fan
January 12, 2009 12:17 AM | Link to this
RC I agree with your points on Lowe and Boras, but maybe offer $15 mil for 4 yrs we need a number 1 pitcher
By singndablues
January 12, 2009 12:24 AM | Link to this
Rourke is a crusty dude. Pretty rough around the edges and it showed at the award show. He burnt a lot of bridges but everyone deserves a 2nd, third, well OK a number of 2nd chances (sometimes). He’s definitely a talented actor and has that screen presence that few have but not sure if I would want to hang out with him.
By Johnny B
January 12, 2009 12:50 AM | Link to this
DOB
Have you heard if any offers have been extended to Dunn or Abreu?
Wonder what their “market value” is looking like at this point? Wonder if Dunn would show interest in a two year at 16 to 20 million…Maybe Abreu for a year at 8 million?
Looking at the deals Giambi and Burrell signed I would think that wouldn’t be to far out of line…
By cmac1919
January 12, 2009 1:04 AM | Link to this
It seems like the Mets have more interest in signing Oliver Perez than they do Lowe and it doesn’t look like the Phillies has much interest in him either ( sighs but knowing the Braves luck, i’m sure that’s going to change)
DOB do we really have a chance at getting Derek Lowe or are the people who are getting optimistic digging their own graves again?
By N Nine
January 12, 2009 1:17 AM | Link to this
Kawakami is a smart, creative pitcher who is known for finding ways to get even the toughest hitters out in big situations. His heavy fastball is not overpowering, but his crafty assortment of off-speed pitches makes him a ground-ball specialist Scoutingbook.com
By Bubdylan
January 12, 2009 1:17 AM | Link to this
This interview, which is intercut with some game footage, shows a great deal of kawakami’s personality; his interview presence and his mound presence, including during some rough outings. Of course I can’t tell what he’s saying, but his, well, aura, for lack of a better word, is kind of cool. (never tried to post a link before, so, if it fails, just type in his name at youtube and choose the 8:42 video.)
By Wayne in Utah
January 12, 2009 1:26 AM | Link to this
I mentioned in the other blog briefly before it came crashing down. Is this a realistic view of what could happen?
Braves sign Derek Lowe, but due to budget restrictions, go the trade route for an outfielder.
Or:
Braves miss out on Derek Lowe, sign and outfielder as a FA, then go the trade route to add one more arm to the rotation.
Personally, I hope we are able to convince Lowe to come to Atlanta. He is a low-ball pitcher, and it would serve one additional purpose; it would cause the Mets to lose Lowe, and sign Oliver Perez instead. I think that is a win-win for us, as Perez is way more inconsistent than Lowe (although he has kicked our keisters a few times)
By Wayne in Utah
January 12, 2009 1:29 AM | Link to this
Bub I think I’ll take your word for it, heck, I could be dead in 8 minutes and 42 seconds!
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
January 12, 2009 1:31 AM | Link to this
Honestly, I’ll be surprised if Derek Lowe signs with our Braves. Especially considering all the bad vibes created from the defection of John Smoltz.
The situation in Texas got me to thinking. Michael Young wants out if he can’t play SS. Interesting. Would the Braves consider him?
At first glance I would have to say no. Young has a five year contract and 80 million coming (16 million per season)guaranteed. I doubt the Braves would want to invest so much in a SS who would be 36 at the end of 2013.
But what if the Rangers were to eat some of his 80 million contract? Yunel Escobar can and will play 3B if need be, whether it be for our Braves or the Rangers. Those Texans have a glut of outfielders. Even with the loss of Milton Bradley to the Cubs.
Say Michael Young and Nelson Cruz for Yunel Escobar with the Rangers eating about 20 million?
The Rangers get their third baseman, clearing room for Elvis Andrus to play everyday and save 60 million.
Our Braves get a veteran gold glove SS along with an outfielder who has plenty of upside and inherit that five year contract, killing two birds with one stone.
It’s probably not doable due to all the contract money. But worth consideration.
By Bubdylan
January 12, 2009 1:41 AM | Link to this
Wayne You make dishonourable ADHD choice! I take you eggroll! (sorry, Mitchie-san…)
By Wayne in Utah
January 12, 2009 1:52 AM | Link to this
Dave Thanks for the Marty Robbins reminder. It’s hard to believe he’s been gone for 26 years. As a kid, I loved the movie “The Hanging Tree” with Gary Cooper, and with Marty’s theme song.
I remember exactly where I was when I heard about Marty’s passing in December of 1982.
Coach Imagine the flack the Braves would catch for trading both Andrus AND Escobar to the Rangers! Personally, I think Michael Young would be wish to shut the heck up, and move over to third base. He’s not that mobile at short.
What do yo think would be a reasonable bounty for Xavier Nady? Would you give them Martin Prado and ONE of the following guys: Campillo, Bennett, or Medlen?
Is that too much?
By NowThatsStupid
January 12, 2009 1:53 AM | Link to this
Say Michael Young and Nelson Cruz for Yunel Escobar with the Rangers eating about 20 million? Coach
are you drunk? You expect the Rangers to trade both Young & Cruz for Yunel???? and then pay some of the salary on top of what is already a ridiculous proposal? Yeah, like that is gonna happen.
By Wayne in Utah
January 12, 2009 1:53 AM | Link to this
Bub I can see we are going to have rots of fun with this new pitcher.
By Wayne in Utah
January 12, 2009 1:55 AM | Link to this
For a minute, and please let’s stay away from comments about what the Braves didn’t do or should have done, what would you guys do if it was your team, and you lost out on Derek Lowe?
(I sure hope we can keep him off the Mets or Phils rosters)
By Wayne in Utah
January 12, 2009 2:02 AM | Link to this
NowThats…
Actually, I would think the Braves would be the foolish ones to do that deal, even if the Rangers paid some of Youngs salary. I like Young, but his range is limited. He is better suited for second or third. And, while I know Cruz is liked by a few on the blog (me included), he is in his later 20’s and is a gamble.
Do we think that Escobar is going to be scarred for life after the Peavy debacle?
If we don’t get Lowe, is Yunel still our biggest bargaining chip for a front line starter?
While the news is not coming from the clubs themselves, some folks that cover the Blue Jays and the Astros mention that both teams should seriously think about a re-tool. While I think it is a long shot, would they be asking for more than we could afford to pay? I think Hallady only has one more year, but Oswalt has a few years. I will have to look into that.
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
January 12, 2009 2:10 AM | Link to this
Too the (1:53 post) RETARD who didn’t read and can’t grasp what I said, I myself used the words NO and probably won’t happen. I put the idea out in the blog for discussion, not for your brain dead comments.
By NowThatsStupid
January 12, 2009 2:21 AM | Link to this
not for your brain dead comments. Coach
what a cop-out. You put out something that you did not believe in? Bu11crapp. And my brain-dead comments constitute discussion moron. Yeah, Young & Cruz and 20 million dollars. Hah. Texas would laugh their azzes off.
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
January 12, 2009 2:26 AM | Link to this
Wayne, Xavier Nady would probably be a one year rental as he will be eligible for free agency after the upcoming 2009 season. I can’t imagine that the Braves would offer more than one big league player plus another minor league prospect.
Everybody knows the Yankees are trying to unload Nady, they prefer to keep Swisher due to his versatility in the outfield and infield.
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
January 12, 2009 2:30 AM | Link to this
Dear MORON, SHUT YOUR FREAKING PIE HOLE BEFORE I RIP YOUR DAMN HEAD OFF AND TAKE A WHIZZ DOWN YOUR EMPTY GULLET.
GO STRAIGHT TO HELL, DO NOT PASS GO, DO NOT WASTE ANY MORE OF MY TIME. THANK YOU.
By Bubdylan
January 12, 2009 2:43 AM | Link to this
Yeesh. Goodnight all. (Skip and Pete wouldn’t care to have their names associated with nasty people.)
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
January 12, 2009 2:49 AM | Link to this
Bub, I didn’t start it, but I am versatile. Whether it be an intelligent discussion, agreement or argument, I’m there.
If somebody want’s trade hay makers or talk trash, I can finish it.
Back to baseball?
By Art in TN
January 12, 2009 3:12 AM | Link to this
DOB:
I know you’ve touched on Ben Sheets before but I’d like to ask:
If Ben Sheets is still unsigned a couple weeks before pitchers and catchers report, or if Derek Lowe doesn’t sign, could the Braves turn to Sheets as that top of the rotation guy?
Thanks! Keep on keepin’ on!
By Wayne in Utah
January 12, 2009 3:17 AM | Link to this
Coach Been off listening to some CSN songs.
Advice you can take or leave, either way it’s ok w/ me. Your personalily here takes a bit of a hit as you don’t seem to be able to handle the idiots (I too have been guilty of the same temporary failures).
A forum like this allows a person to be an idiot, without recourse, short of being banned, which rarely happens.
You have a lot of excellent baseball suggestions to share. Don’t let the dillweeds screw it up for you. Just do a simple little “excuse me, dum$hit, was I talking to you” or something like that, and then let it be.
It gives you a chance to kinda tell them to stick it, but truly, on a blog, you can never get any true satisfaction. It just doesn’t work.
NOW, on your trade proposal, nah, I think we either trade Escobar for a big ticket pitcher, or we try to show him some love and splain to him that trade proposals are part of the game.
Now, on the X man, I was aware of the 1 year aspect. I think you have to offer them something to compensate for their loss of 25 HR potential for one year.
BUT, if they don’t trade him they are essentially loosing that potential anyway, cause he would be replaced by Nick Swisher, who is capable of similar numbers.
If we went that direction, it would mean a reshuffling next year of OF’ers again, but maybe we know more then about the estimated arrival of Mr. Heyward.
To be honest, the more I think about it, Rick Ankiel might be a better option, though he is a lefty. Again, a 1 year rental. BUT, his upside is he can play all 3 OF slots, whereas Nady is a corner man.
If Schafer makes the grade or is darned close in the spring, then Ankiel could start at CF, and then move to left when Schafer is ready to go full time.
Also, the numbers that Diaz put up for his two years of glory is hard to just pass over.
To be honest, the key will be Frenchy.
I think it might have been you that commented to me yesterday that all teams have question marks, which is certainly true, but it seems to me that if 2-3 of ours comes through the way we envision it could, we could have a shot at contending.
I would never wager good money at Vegas on us, but it would make the summer certainly fun.
(Got “Wooden Ships” going on the other tab.)
I will look back in before I turn in to check for your response.
By Wayne in Utah
January 12, 2009 3:21 AM | Link to this
Art Certainly not to speak for Dave, but I suspect a lot of other options would have to be exhausted in the trade winds before they would take a shot at Sheets.
Going to Sheets is almost like saying “we really kinda give up on this year” or “Smoltz as an injury in waiting was not good enough, but Sheets as an injury in waiting is OK with us.”
There might be some repercussions in Braves Nation over signing Sheets.
Whaddya think?
BTW,where in TN?
By KC
January 12, 2009 3:29 AM | Link to this
Wayne in Utah: Depending on what we’d have to give up to get Ankiel… we might be better off signing Dunn AND Griffey.
Griffey is only one year removed from his most recent 30-plus homer season, and the price should be right. Sure, Griffey could break down, but if he does, we’ve got Schafer and Anderson to back him up.
If we don’t get Griffey, we might as well bring Andruw back and see if we can catch lightening in a bottle with an improbable comeback. We’d be risking almost nothing to do so.
G’night y’all.
By KC
January 12, 2009 3:38 AM | Link to this
Wayne: Ben Sheets’ injury proneness, while considerable, is significantly different from Smoltz trying to comeback from oblivion with a recently reconstructed 42 year-old shoulder that is “held together by 5 anchor points”.
If we can’t get Lowe, and Sheets appears to be healthy NOW… I’d say there isn’t much to lose if we sign him on a 2-year deal (with a vesting 3rd year if he pitches at least 330 innings in the first two years of his contract).
If he comes over here and gets hurt… well, competing without a Derek Lowe or a healthy Ben Sheets was going to be a stretch anyway. You haven’t lost much… that is, if you can sign him on a somewhat reasonable contract.
By Wayne in Utah
January 12, 2009 3:47 AM | Link to this
KC First off, good points on the OF and pitcher. Second, what in the heck are you doing still up.
I am sitting here in Utah thinking why don’t I turn the lights off and try to sleep.
Oh, BTW, that was my little buddy Max’ pix you saw.
By athens rotgut
January 12, 2009 3:49 AM | Link to this
WHAT UP EVERYBODY ON THE DOB BRAVES BLOG!!
IVe been on the road for a while with no internet but ive kept track of los bravos and i gotta say i was P** at the yankees for coming in to swipe away Burnett because i do think he was the best bang for your buck with starting pitching this year BUT im real excited about the Kawakami signing! I just hope Bobby and Jack will figure out a way to use him/rest him like a vet just to keep him fresh in case me make the playoffs…then again if we struggle to make the wild card play his a* every 5th day and let him deal with it.. THIS IS AMERICA DAMNIT! Im just joking but he is making millions of dollars. I would feel like a jackass if i didnt perform and was accepting that much $$$. Thats why I always liked Tommy Glav. And i hope he can get his body back in good enough shape to make the team. He was what i consider the definition of “a pitcher”. And he was lefty to boot! (Gotta admit im a lefty too..we gotta stick together). He knew how to go out and win a game at 80%..at 70% he’d go out there maybe toss a few easy ones out there but still stay out there long enough for the offense to score some runs and win the game.
Sorry to go off on a tangent but thats my biggest problem with Percy Harvin. You heard it hear first if Percy goes to the NFL which he will..the Florida Gators..no im not going to call them Gaytors even if im a UGA grad…will NOT REPEAT AS NATIONAL CHAMPIONS. Im glad Tebow is coming back. I expect 2009 to be a lot more like 2007 for the gators than 2008. WIthout percy you lose that scary homerun threat catching/running/direct snap. Tebow cant throw and catch the ball. I expect the defense to improve but i got the dawgs to give them their first loss of the year next year if anybody wants to put $20 on it. SOrry i know this is a braves blog but its late. i just got home this weekend so ive had a boat load of bowl games on the TiVo and im a little football crazy. BUT GO BRAVES. Im on the bus! Frenchy will rebound as long as last year didnt screw with his brain too much…Kawakami will pitch like Kuroda pitched against us…Hanson wont make it out of spring trainign but he will be called up as soon as Kawakami goes down-“takes a breather”-and i hope my boy McCann starts off hot along with Chipper. they should be in all around game shape as soon as the season begins. Go BRAVES! Go Smoltz. I hate the RedSocks but Smoltz will go to the Hall as a Brave and he cant get too many wins as far as im concerned. Thanks for the Posts DOB
By athens rotgut
January 12, 2009 3:52 AM | Link to this
Take your sister then by the hand Lead us away from this foreign land Far away where we might laugh again We are leaving…You dont need us
By Wayne in Utah
January 12, 2009 3:55 AM | Link to this
KC To be honest, I expect Sheets to go back to Milwaukee. If we don’t get Lowe, I expect to see a trade for a starter.
As for Ankiel vs Griffey/AJones, I don’t have a problem with Griffey, but I just don’t see the Braves leaning in his direction.
There are some names out there that I would love to see us pursue, but I try to keep my speculating in the area of guys the Braves have shown at least a small amount of interest in. (hence, my reluctance to bring up Sheets)
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
January 12, 2009 3:58 AM | Link to this
Let’s talk about Tim Hudson.
It’s likely that the man won’t throw a single pitch in 2009 while earning 13 million. A contract is a contract, I can’t find any fault with that. However, he will be owed 12 million for the 2010 season (one million team buyout).
Again, I can’t blame the Braves if they pick his option up, assuming that he is fully recovered from T.J. surgery. I believe in huddy. He still has an outside shot at the Hall of Fame in my estimation.
But when comparing his situation to that of John Smoltz, it’s gonna stink to high heaven. Even if it’s not fair. Smoltz is 42, Hudson will be 34. Smoltz felt disrespected over the amount of contract money being guaranteed, Hudson’s option is controlled. Again, not a fair comparison.
But still. For the Braves to pay a pitcher 12 million after missing an entire season while earning 13 million rehabbing (25 million total) compared to the 5.5 million guarantee that Smoltz is getting from Boston, it’s gonna reek.
Business is business and there is no loyalty in baseball when an organization feels the need to cut the cord. I’ll get inside Frank Wren’s head head for a second. He wasn’t prepared to invest more than 2.5 million guaranteed up front for John Smoltz because the Braves are unlikely to contend and Wren knows this.
The win now philosophy is nothing more than the company line. Wren fully expects the team to struggle this season. The man’s actions are telling a different story than what’s coming out of his mouth. If Frank Wren really expected the Braves to make the playoffs, there is no in hell he allows the winningest postseason pitcher in MLB history to walk away to Boston.
To prove my point, let’s just wait and see what develops with Tom Glavine. I’m betting that it won’t be pretty.
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
January 12, 2009 4:09 AM | Link to this
Wayne, I’m not on the Jordan Schafer bandwagon as of yet. I’ll believe it when I see it. As for Frenchy, 2009 is do or die. The upcoming season is going to make or break his career in Atlanta.
But, the biggest thing that worries me the most is the dynamic between Bobby Cox and Frank Wren. I don’t believe that these two see eye to eye. Frank Wren has stirred up more dust in the past three months than any GM in the 40 plus years the Braves have been in Atlanta. This cannot be a good thing in the long run.
By Wayne in Utah
January 12, 2009 4:11 AM | Link to this
Coach There will be hoardes of folks ripping the Braves whatever they end up doing with Tim Hudson.
As you stated, a contract is a contract. Tim (or John, for that matter) didn’t get hurt on purpose. (Hampton too, but that’s a sore subject on the blog)
The Braves make the best decision they can when all the facts are laid out. TJ surjery on a early to mid 30’s hurler is a world of difference than what happened between the Braves and JS.
A lot will depend on how our other starters do, and how the younger ones look. Easier to take a gamble when you have an ace in the hole. Heck, we don’t even know if Jurrjens will repeat his success of last year, although I think we are all counting on it.
I think if Tommy G is patient, he will get a chance to pitch again for the Braves, if he is healthy. But if he is impatient like John was, I expect him to go elsewhere. Either way, I am fine with it. If he is that impatient, then I really don’t want him around anyway.
In the end, he might be clogging the path for Jo Jo Reyes or Charlie Morton. Many here don’t like Reyes, but I think the kid has a heckuva chance to be a good hurler, if he can just put it all together. Half of his games last year were anywhere from average to exceptional. The other half, he sucked.
rotgut That is my favorite CSN song, man! I’m an old picker, and I love the bass and organ on the studio version. There is a good live version on Youtube also.
By Wayne in Utah
January 12, 2009 4:15 AM | Link to this
Coach I have had a love hate relationship with Bobby for 20 years. Love him for what he is good at, and he drives me crazy with some of his tactical moves.
I too sense that if FW survives the next year or two, this will be HIS team, and he will end up picking HIS manager, which to be honest, is the way it is supposed to work.
They haven’t asked me my opinion yet. Have they called you?
Nah, didn’t think so.
:-)
Damn this blog is fast tonight!
By Johnny B
January 12, 2009 4:35 AM | Link to this
Coach
I agree completely that this is THE make or break year as far as Frenchy goes. I’ve stated that previously and you can debate his past seasons, either way you like, with any slant you like….Bottom line it’s put up or be gone and the Braves will afford him every opportunity to prove himself.
IMO it’s still more mental with the guy, we’ve seen he has the raw ability. He just needs to get his head around it, relax, and learn to enjoy the game again!
I truly wonder if Pendleton is the right coach for him. I’ve also wondered if he didn’t have a negative influence on AJ.
Some guys can learn to adjust and go the other way, while others are “dead red” pull hitters and should be left alone as such…Just my observation anyway!
After the seemingly great relationship Bobby has with JS, I like you wonder if Wren has the same respect for Bobbys input as JS had?
I always kinda considered JS arrogant and somewhat aloof. But, he always seemed to make good moves which can help you over look such things! Wren, on the other hand is both and then some and directing it toward the fans, the way he did in Bradleys blog, really irked me!
Read an article linked on MLBtraderumors with JS and it seemed he was taking the responsibility for the Smoltz fiasco…So is JS still “pulling the strings” or is he just taking some of the heat for his “homeboy GM”?
By Jerald Holcombe
January 12, 2009 4:49 AM | Link to this
DOB Didn’t see the Golden Globes, but I did get a chance to see The Wrestler. Really nice work put in by Mickey. Did he win anything?
By MattyRoss
January 12, 2009 4:54 AM | Link to this
Rourke won Best Actor. It’ll be interesting to see if the Oscars go the same way. Great movie, pretty much an allegory for Mickey’s own life. Might be the only thing to stop him from winning the big one, the fact that it wasn’t much of a stretch for him to play a down and out dude who is told he can’t hack it any more but relying on fans for support…
Main competish will be from Penn (Milk) and Pitt (Curious Case of Benjamin Button) DiCaprio will be an also ran.
By NowThatsStupid
January 12, 2009 5:02 AM | Link to this
Dear MORON, SHUT YOUR FREAKING PIE HOLE BEFORE I RIP YOUR DAMN HEAD OFF AND TAKE A WHIZZ DOWN YOUR EMPTY GULLET.
GO STRAIGHT TO HELL, DO NOT PASS GO, DO NOT WASTE ANY MORE OF MY TIME. THANK YOU Coach
whatsa matter there little boy, mommy won’t let you out of the cellar and you is all hissy? If you didn’t post such idiotic crap, then nobody would respond negatively to you. But what a stupid stupid trade proposal, and then you don’t even have the ba11s to stand by it? Pretty disgusting behavior all around coachie. Mommy gonna spank her little boy when she reads this. naughty naughty
By Mitchell
January 12, 2009 5:37 AM | Link to this
… and baseball people will tell you Kelly Johnson isn’t the liability some here make him out to be.
False. Sorry, I like Kelly Johnson even though on occasion I did refer to him as “Nancy” but even the most routine ground ball hit his way makes me gasp for air.
That being said, if he continues hitting the way he was (and the way a lot of guys were) at the end of last season I don’t think we’re in as bad a shape as people think.
The major problem now (and last year, and the year before and basically every year under Bobby Cox) isn’t just being able to score enough runs, it’s scoring any runs. We used to not have to worry about hitting homeruns. We obviously don’t have anybody on this team who is likely to hit more than 25 at the most. But when you have this many players with not enough power you gotta start learning how to bunt. As God as my witness, there will come a day when the Braves can manufacture a run. But then again why learn how to bunt when there’s never anybody on base because they all swing at the first pitch and pop out?
A question for the ages.
By Rodney Derrick
January 12, 2009 6:07 AM | Link to this
I have not yet seen anything written about the impact of the economy on the players’ incomes relative to these salary issues. it has been all about the owners and teams’ incomes. For example, in the case of the Braves’ “bearded icon”, he had a divorce a little over a year ago. Plus who knows what impact the stock market and property value issues have had on him. This makes the idea of making several million more in salary much larger. And then there is the question of pitching in big games and in October, which is what drives Smoltzie. Last year, when he threw his 3000th strikeout, there were 27000 fans at the Ted, and the Atlanta fans are very mild mannered. Imagine playing in Fenway and Yankee Stadium on a regular basis, and the adrenaline there.
By Random
January 12, 2009 6:11 AM | Link to this
JOEBRAVE: “First finally!!!”
Perhaps that was the last open item on your bucket list?
(One can always hope.)
;->
By KEITH MOON LIVES
January 12, 2009 7:02 AM | Link to this
Why are we not signing Adam Dunn ???!!!
By Tim
January 12, 2009 7:04 AM | Link to this
Braves need to sign Lowe and Sheets/Garland and Dunn. Re-sign Ohman. Get Frenchy back near what he is capable of. The Braves will then have a chance to win in 2009.
By The Impossible
January 12, 2009 7:29 AM | Link to this
Get Frenchy back near what he is capable of
And what would that be? His .268 career batting average, career .312 OBP and career .434 slugging percentage? Wow, that’ll only make him one of the worst everyday corner outfielders in the majors, instead of the undisputed worst like in 2006 and 2008.
The Braves (if the 25 million before Kawakami figure was correct) can’t afford both Lowe and Dunn. It’d sure as heck be nice though, to block the Mets from Lowe AND black the Nationals from Dunn. Lowe and Dunn are both great.
By Kevin
January 12, 2009 8:28 AM | Link to this
I don’t know about everybody else, but me personally I’ve not been excited about an upcoming season as I am this one.
Let’s think about this is a down to earth manner.
If the Braves do get Lowe, then we’ve totally revamped a starting rotation that was in dire need of it. The rotation will look like this: Lowe, Jurrjens, Vazquez, Kawakami and probably Morton to start the year, Hanson will be in there later. As far as depth and quality, this rotation beats the Mets or the Phillies anyday.
Now for the lineup. We have one of the two three catchers in the game in McCann. We have one of the top shortstops in the NL in Escobar. We have one of the top 4 third basemen in the game in Chipper. Kelly Johnson and Kotchmann are nothing to laugh at. We have a quality lineup. If we had a good hitting left fielder to this, then we are just as good as the Phillies and the Mets.
Our bullpen will consist of Gonzalez, Soriano, Moylan, and Ohman (yes we will resign him). That’s enough said right there. Add in other fine pieces and we are set there.
The bench is good as just as the Mets and the Phillies.
So everyone needs to give Frank Wren some respect for what he has done and what he’s about to do.
I’m not saying we will win it all this season, but we have a shot. Wait until 2010!
Just my 2 cents.
By tim
January 12, 2009 8:44 AM | Link to this
Ah,, I see coach was getting into the moonshine again late last night…
By Jim
January 12, 2009 8:47 AM | Link to this
Do Braves have any hope of picking up a LH starting pitcher - other than Tom Glavine?
By crispy
January 12, 2009 8:58 AM | Link to this
kevin,
this team really hasnt changed for the better since last year. reyes wright & beltran alone can make the bravos look like minor leaguers.
granted getting kamikazee will help as we should have 3 consistent quality starters. ideally we would need at least 7-8 starters ready to go with the top 3 being healthy all year. offense-eh, thats another story.
By Pete Bancheri
January 12, 2009 9:08 AM | Link to this
This is an open letter to Frank Wren that I sent to him today.
Dear Mr. Wren:
I have been a lifelong Braves fan. I went to games in the 70’s and 80’s when the crowds numbered in the single digit 1000’s. After the deplorable way you treated John Smoltz, I will never attend another Braves game or watch one on TV. I will do everything in power to sway people not to attend games, too.
Mr. Smoltz was more than a great player. He was an outstanding member of the community. He was always donating time to help charitable causes. He took millions less in the past to remain a Brave. Even if he was not able to come back this year, a few million dollars to retain a pillar of the community is nothing the way teams spend money. The Braves have squandered tens of millions of dollars over that last five years. Not only have you damaged fan loyalty with your miserly treatment of Mr. Smoltz, but also you have damaged team loyalty. I think that you will have a hard time resigning Chipper Jones, for example. How do you expect players to want to play for the Braves when they see how you treated John Smoltz? You have had a miserable track record signing players this year. I will hazard a guess that it will not be easier for you to sign free agents after this last fiasco. I know my next suggestion will be very expensive and maybe not legally doable. But, in order to rebuild fan and team loyalty, I suggest that you pony up and buy Mr. Smoltz’s contract from the Red Sox. You are such an optimist that I am optimistic you could accomplish this if you tried.
Not to digress, but your statement of being an optimist flies in the face of an objective assessment of reality regarding your attempts to improve the Braves this offseason. I am certainly not qualified to be a general manager. I would certainly do worse than you. Although, some might ask how could one do worse then you have done over the last two years. When you have failed in nearly every attempt to improve the team, being optimistic in the face of your nearly complete failure is rather Pollyannaish.
Sincerely, Pete Bancheri
By Iron Labrum
January 12, 2009 9:09 AM | Link to this
Chop Chop …thanks for posting the link. I was in the process of doing that last night when the blog crashed. It is definitely recommended reading.
By Savannah Guy
January 12, 2009 9:17 AM | Link to this
Another blog crash with hundreds of brilliant opines, hot stove kindling, desired SP lineups, suggestions for a big bat signing, songs, Smoltz vents, the usual percentage of psycho babble and criticism for Liberty and Wren… now lost forever in cyberspace. The historic record is expunged.
Now Frank can just assume that it was all just a bunch of looney tune, out of touch, rabid, atypical fans that post childish vents and meaningless blog drivel.
Like most of his assumptions, he’d be half right.
Trouble is, half right is mostly wrong in the off season. Close enough is not enough with trades and acquisitions. Making offers that missed by “this much” doesn’t get it. No cigar for close. Playing GM in the off season ain’t horse shoes or hand grenades.
By Lew
January 12, 2009 9:21 AM | Link to this
Crispy-Let’s see now. We were third in BA in the NL last year at .270. If we sign a power hitting outfielder we won’t have an offense? Are you sure? As for those three Mets making us look like minor leaguers-You are aware we had an 11-7 record against them last year even while losing 90 games? Have you seen the Mets even fill their pitching staff yet?
Coach-If I’m not mistaken, the Hudson option is a mutual option. It is NOT controlled by the Braves.
By DAP
January 12, 2009 9:22 AM | Link to this
kevin If we had a good hitting left fielder to this, then we are just as good as the Phillies and the Mets.
it would have to be a really good hitting LFer. maybe if pujols played left. the braves lineup, while it has good things about it, and has potential, is not as good as the mets and definitely not the phillies. at least,not until it becomes more consistent. i agree with you on the rotation if we get lowe and the bullpen, though.
By Lew
January 12, 2009 9:25 AM | Link to this
Crispy-Lowe (if we get him), Vasquez, Kawakami, Jurrjens, Morton, Campillo, Reyes, Hanson, Lerew, Bennett, Carlyle. That could include Glavine and several from the minors that are currently starting AND relieving (Medlen, Marek) Is that 7 or 8?
By Harry
January 12, 2009 9:25 AM | Link to this
Pete Bancheri- get over it, dude. you’re a moron (see Renteria for Jurrjens and Hernandez).
By Kevin
January 12, 2009 9:33 AM | Link to this
Crispy- reyes wright & beltran alone can make the bravos look like minor leaguers.
I’ll give you the point on Reyes and Wright, but Beltran is not that great. I believe Chipper is as good as Wright. And Escobar has the potential to be just as good as Reyes.
By Bravedawg
January 12, 2009 9:34 AM | Link to this
Statements like this always kill me…
“I have been a lifelong Braves fan. I went to games in the 70’s and 80’s when the crowds numbered in the single digit 1000’s. ” Pete Bancheri
Let’s think about this for a second. For the amount of people that say this (I hear it all the time on this blog, on radio call-in shows, etc), the Braves should’ve had record-setting attendance in those days. Everyone tries to “prove their fanhood” by saying that. It’s a little ridiculous. This is a blog. You’re free to post on it when you want to, how you want to (to an extent). You don’t need to make these statements to prove your right to post or opine about the Braves.
Not to mention that your statements about Frank Wren failing on every attempt to improve the team are patently false. In my book, he could screw up three more times considering the heist he pulled off for Jair Jurrjens and Gorkys Hernandez. Even Detroit’s GM admitted that he got fleeced on that, and a GM NEVER admits that. So let’s not start generalizing and dismiss the positive moves the team has made since he took over.
Perhaps it’s helpful to review the “mistakes” you think he’s made:
He didn’t give up his entire farm system for Jake Peavy (personally, I’m glad he didn’t make this move. One might recall the phrase “Sometimes it’s not about the moves you make, but the moves you don’t make.”
He got outbid by the Yankees for AJ Burnett. Great. Now we can join every other MLB team that’s been outbid by the Yankees. Not a whole lot more he could’ve done there.
The Furcal thing—based on all reports, it seems like he got double-crossed by the agent. I do fault him for being a little too open about the negotiations as they were ongoing (I’m sure DOB likes this, though—makes his job easier =) ) as I have always thought the Braves have been successful in negotiations because they play their cards close to the vest. But, in summary, the Furcal situation was questionable at best.
The Smoltz deal - as I’ve said on here before, Smoltz is my favorite Braves player of all time. But I can’t fault Wren for not wanting to sign a 41-42 year old pitcher, coming off his FIFTH major surgery, to a $5.5++ million guaranteed contract, when it’s a fact that he won’t even pitch until May or June. It hurts, sure, but I can’t blame him. He was burned last year by depending on old pitchers, and they let him down. If he did it again, and they let him down again, he’d get killed by the media for making the same mistake twice.
By crispy
January 12, 2009 9:38 AM | Link to this
Lew:
provided Lowe gets ink, i think campillo or bennett would give us the best chance in the 5 hole. those other guys will probably just give us a win 25% of the time if we are lucky
By Iron Labrum
January 12, 2009 9:39 AM | Link to this
Savannah Guy …you make a good point… DOB …are the blogs really lost forever?
By DCbrave
January 12, 2009 9:46 AM | Link to this
As we move along in the article, we find that 3 bloggers are quoted by name as having negative comments (congratulations DCbrave for hitting the big time!) -Wayne
Does DCBigHead realize yet that his words have been immortalized by Stinson - Random
Wayne and Random: Just came back from a business trip and scanned the last couple of blogs to catch up. Due to the nature of my job/work, cannot aford to stay too much time on the blog and really envy some of you who could sit here all day long.
Anyway, the quote. I have been a Braves fan for several decades long before some of you were born and have witnessed all the ups and downs the tean has been through. As I explained in the last blog, to me, the team that won 14 consecutive division titles exits no more along with Smoltz’s departure. What made that team was the whole of a once-in-a-century rotation anchored by Maddux-Glavine-Smoltz, a hard-to-find JS+BC duo, and a stable relationship between BC and LM, not any part thereof. The entire dying process started with the departures of Glavine and Maddux and Leo, enhanced by a couple of bad trades by JS, followed by JS and FW’s promotions, and eventualized by Smoltz’s leaving.
I’m still a wholehearted Braves fan with the realization that I’m now witnessing a totally different team. With the eminent departure of Cox, the team can only get worse, will spend several more years to just find its philosophy. I’m entirely prepared to deal with it because only the Braves is my team, whereever I live, Atlanta, DC, or anywhere.
Hey Random: I never resort to name calling because it’s not my style. But your words did make me wonder whether they actually imply something about the size of your brain/head, randomly or otherwise.
By DCbrave
January 12, 2009 9:46 AM | Link to this
As we move along in the article, we find that 3 bloggers are quoted by name as having negative comments (congratulations DCbrave for hitting the big time!) -Wayne
Does DCBigHead realize yet that his words have been immortalized by Stinson - Random
Wayne and Random: Just came back from a business trip and scanned the last couple of blogs to catch up. Due to the nature of my job/work, cannot aford to stay too much time on the blog and really envy some of you who could sit here all day long.
Anyway, the quote. I have been a Braves fan for several decades long before some of you were born and have witnessed all the ups and downs the tean has been through. As I explained in the last blog, to me, the team that won 14 consecutive division titles exits no more along with Smoltz’s departure. What made that team was the whole of a once-in-a-century rotation anchored by Maddux-Glavine-Smoltz, a hard-to-find JS+BC duo, and a stable relationship between BC and LM, not any part thereof. The entire dying process started with the departures of Glavine and Maddux and Leo, enhanced by a couple of bad trades by JS, followed by JS and FW’s promotions, and eventualized by Smoltz’s leaving.
I’m still a wholehearted Braves fan with the realization that I’m now witnessing a totally different team. With the eminent departure of Cox, the team can only get worse, will spend several more years to just find its philosophy. I’m entirely prepared to deal with it because only the Braves is my team, whereever I live, Atlanta, DC, or anywhere.
Hey Random: I never resort to name calling because it’s not my style. But your words did make me wonder whether they actually imply something about the size of your brain/head, randomly or otherwise.
By McFann O –[zzz]
January 12, 2009 9:50 AM | Link to this
athens rotgut and i hope my boy McCann starts off hot along with Chipper.
Yeah…as long as it’s not like ‘07 when Mac started off hot, but finished not-so-hot.
they should be in all around game shape as soon as the season begins.
They could be in better game shape if they were going to Spring Training…
By Shaun
January 12, 2009 9:52 AM | Link to this
Morning, all.
Here is something interesting all those who often disagree with me might consider reading. Here is an excerpt:
It’s one thing to criticize the new stats. VORP and WARP, for example, are proprietary statistics of Baseball Prospectus, which doesn’t show the math behind them. BP’s defensive stats, which are an element of WARP, have been called into particular question by some experts. I don’t have the math chops to take Win Shares apart, but I think some of its assumptions are a little off.
But it’s another thing to simply dismiss them without bothering to figure out what they’re all about. And then to try to pass this off as wisdom.
Imagine a baseball writer snorting at a question about the Tampa Bay Rays, “I’m sure they’re a very nice team. Someday I hope someone will describe them to me.” Then figuring this makes him look like some kind of sage with a deeper appreciation for the game than all those kids with their Rays and Diamondbacks and Marlins and whatnot.
By DCbrave
January 12, 2009 9:57 AM | Link to this
Sorry about the duplication of my post - did not realize I clicked the “post” button twice.
By Ritchie from Scotland
January 12, 2009 10:01 AM | Link to this
I pretty much agree with all Bravedawg’s points shown above (9:34am). I don’t think Wren has done that bad a job, it’s just we’ve been in some very public unpleasant situations (Peavy and Furcal) and you can hardly blame him for missing out on Burnett. The Smoltz thing, sure it hurts but what if Smoltz doesn’t end up pitching till late June and ends up not being that effective or getting hurt again. Will we all then call Wren a genius? If we can get Lowe (please) and a decent big bat then I would call the winter very successful. If Frenchy is back to his old self. McCann, Escobar and Johnson keep improving. If Kotchman has settled in and Hanson comes to the big club pitching like we know he can, why then can’t we win the East?
By Don
January 12, 2009 10:02 AM | Link to this
Lowe to the Braves would seem to be a long shot. Who would he want to pitch for the Braves if there is the opportunity to pitch for a contender at anything close to the same money??? The loss of Smoltz is probably because of his wanting to pitch for a contender. Otherwise he would have taken the Braves offer — would have still received basically the same money - if he had been effective (which he thinks that he will). Don’t agree with you statement about Chipper being a good defensive third baseman — he is a great hitter but has never been great defensively — plays too shallow which significantly cuts down his range.
By Chambers
January 12, 2009 10:03 AM | Link to this
You people kill me. Smoltz’s contract was structured to reward him just showing up for the the first 90 days of the season. If he were not able to go the first 90 days, we did’nt need to pay him. We had 4 starters make less than 60 starts last year, (I think thats right) with over 20 from Hudson alone. What do you want, to win or to have that warm feeling seeing Smoltz walk in and out of the bullpen door during TV games? Go ahead, Pete, stop coming to games.* “I will do everything in power to sway people not to attend games, too”*. Dude, get another hobby. Miserable people like you only stomp on everyone else’s good time at the Ted, anyway. Scram. John is a big boy and can take care of himself. I wish him nothing but the best in Boston. As for me, I am behind Frank Wren and this club 100 percent.
By Shaun
January 12, 2009 10:03 AM | Link to this
Very nice post at 9:34, Bravedawg.
It frankly gets a little annoying when people say stuff like “I’ve been a fan since there were 2,000 people coming to Braves games, etc.” My guess is probably over 70 percent of the people posting stuff have been Braves fans since they stunk. Many more are simply too young to have been around for that but their parents were Braves fan during that time, and they would have been had they been alive.
It seems as though people are using that as the basis for criticizing Frank Wren. But you point out correctly that his alleged mistakes aren’t really mistakes at all.
If there were a blog back in 1990, those folks probably would have posted the same things about the Dale Murphy trade; not being patient enough to give a Murphy-less Braves team a chance.
By Supes
January 12, 2009 10:04 AM | Link to this
Excited that the Braves will be ready to compete with the Nationals for 4th place in the NL East:)
We currently have signed 2 number #3 starters and a back up catcher. What’s not to like!
Kawasaki will take this town by storm I tell you, there will be at least 2000 more asian fans at the games, it’ll make up for the 2000 who will not be there b/c they feel stabbed in the back with the Smoltz “deal”.
Can’t wait to see Jessica Francouer rebound with another .230 average, 15hr and hit .200 with RISP.
Awesome! I also can’t wait to see Frank Wren trade the heart and soul of the Braves Chipper Jones come the July trade deadline and bring in another “Casey Kotchman” b/c you can’t never have enough guys who fail to produce when traded for!
Last but not least, I can’t wait to see Smoltz come in here in June with the Sox, take the mound at the Ted and smoke that potent Braves lineup that our great GM has put together!
2009 Braves - Clearly in rebuilding mode but we have a GM and front office who won’t admit it and are “making moves” to deceive those who are naive enough to know the truth - Atlanta Braves organization impact players are 2 years away from being Major League Ready (at least)
2009 - Braves will finish with 90 loses or more again. Book it. Not being negative, just being realistic. Braves will not have a winning season until 2010, and won’t compete for the NL East until 2011.
By rammerjammer
January 12, 2009 10:08 AM | Link to this
When that Chass article mentioned the Yankees had held preliminary talks with Smoltz, bells went off. Now it makes even more sense why Boston signed him.
Look at the two teams’ off season: Yankees sign Sabathia and Burnett.
Red Sox sign Penny and Saito.
Boston could not let their rivals land another marquee pitcher, so they went overboard to keep Smoltz from going to New York.
By Jonathon
January 12, 2009 10:10 AM | Link to this
DOB,
Is Kawakami being considered for a spot on Japan’s WBC team? I’d rather him spend all of the spring at Dark Star.
By Wayne in Utah
January 12, 2009 10:12 AM | Link to this
DCbrave
I have a slightly different take on the Braves situation than you. I think we were spoiled for a long time, many of the years toiling in an inferior division of the NL. That is only part.
I do agree with you that the dynamics were awesome for a while, but no way would I start to lay a lot of blame at the feel of John Schuerholz, as the man made many more positive trades than negative. Folks seem to only want to talk about the Teixeira trade, and forget the Crime Dog steal.
Your saying the team will only get worse, assumes that we cannot actually get better. I just don’t believe in being so negative. Will things be different than when Bobby Cox managed, and the team had a bigger budget, yes. Can they be just as good, but different.
For many reasons, not all the fault of the FO, the team will never have another run like the last one. Besides some Yankee dynasties over the years, what other team has come close?
So, let’s just pull for the Braves, and try to keep it positive if we can.
BTW, my blogging has come in spurts over the years. It has gotten heavy over the past 4-5 days, as I have been recovering from some surgery, and I haven’t worked in a week.
Later…
By DCbrave
January 12, 2009 10:15 AM | Link to this
Don: Agree with you (10:02) that it would be hard to find a good reason for Lowe to come to the Braves given the team’s current situation and the uncertainty that Cox may retire in one or two years. He may come only when the Braves overpay him, and in a big margin.
By Dadgum
January 12, 2009 10:17 AM | Link to this
Been away from the blog for days due to family illness in North Carolina but have kept up with all the baseball moves on XM 175. Caught DOB on Steiner Show and comments and interview with Cox just after Smoltz news broke. Catching up on all the blogs (not necessarily the 1000 comments).
Way back in time prior to the winter meetings, many of us denizens wondered if Smoltz would be back. Injury problems primarily. I conjectured would Smoltz sign with Atlanta or opt to finish perhaps his final year with a chance to win a World Series ring. To a pitching icon that is probably the driving motivation.
Atlanta was clearly not that destination. A World Series contender. Nope that was clear to Smoltz. After reading and listening to Cox it is very apparent Smoltz left for Boston and a chance at a ring. Cox even acted in an intermediary role for Wren. He called Smoltz to see what the Braves needed to do to retain him. Alas in vain.
Basically Smoltz had the misfortune of having his injury and operation happen when it did. The Braves have been burned badly by the injury bug and couldn’t afford to pay the piper this time. Even the icon Smoltz. Baseball is a business and Smoltz knew the Braves’ situation. In the end it is always the player with the final say. Simply, he chose to play in Boston. Can’t blame Atlanta, can’t blame Smoltz. Whatever side you choose to take you can’t win an argument.
Chipper might be p** now but I bet after this issue fades into night he will become less p**. Smoltz may have told Chipper he was upset that the Braves didn’t up their offer but what is he suppose to say.
Glavine hit the nail on the head. Aging stars need to be shown some love and it is more of a hit to the ego. Again I am not blaming Smoltz but it was his choice. I am not buying the money issue. He made a ton of money last year for token appearances. He went to Boston because he wanted to do so. I respect that and I respect Atlanta’s views. It was time for a parting of the ways. As the season nears the all-star break and the Braves are not contending, Chipper may very well OK a trade to a contending team.
Kawakami is great news but I will reserve any gush of excitement until the kid hits the bigs for a few starts. KK and JJ. Has a nice look in the rotation though. Regardless of the Lowe situation I feel the Braves have little choice but to put Hanson in the #5 slot. That is assuming he continues to progress and impress in Dark Star.
Assuming we get Lowe. Lowe, JJ, JV, KK, and Hanson. Interesting rotation and, quite possibly, real good rotation. Still don’t see Glavine in the mix. Just can’t see it.
Did see “24” last night. Great!! Can’t wait for tonight’s episode. Lot of story lines to follow.
Rock on….live life folks. Ask yourselves this-“how old would you be if you didn’t know how old you are?”. Ya’ll think about it.
By Kentavo
January 12, 2009 10:18 AM | Link to this
Hate to see Smoltz go, but, you know what? Who says that he can even pitch, besides himself? He’s been (often great) concealing injuries much of the time since coming back to the rotation. I like Smoltz, but it was the right move not to invest a huge amount of money in him. Frank Wren is not going to go with the “hope they can pitch” philosophy that has undermined the team the last few years by counting on Hampton, Smoltz and Glavine. If he can pull of the deal for Lowe, then we’ve got plenty of reason for optimism, despite the winter of discontent. The following rotation, while not featuring dominant performers like Smoltz and Huddy, would be more balanced than what we’ve seen the last few years: Lowe, Vasquez, Jurrgens, Kawakami, Campillo or a rotating 5th spot. Throw in Hanson mid-season and perhaps improvement by Morton and JoJo and a late summer addition of Hudson, and you’ve got some depth.
NOw, the outfield, that’s a different problem which I hope Andruw Jones is not the perceived solution.
By Lew
January 12, 2009 10:24 AM | Link to this
Crispy-Dude, you’re wrong about that. You seemingly have no conception of what Morton or Hanson can bring to the table. You have to give the kids a shot. Morton pitched quite well until his shoulder started to bother him (you have to build these kids up slowly and we didn’t have that luxury last year) and Hanson has potential like very few other pitchers the Braves have ever drafted. I wouldn’t give up on JoJo quite yet and don’t discount Medlen or Marek, either.
I think in a worst case scenario, you should see 50-60% or better from the five slot-which isn’t all that bad-especially after what we’ve seen the past couple years. We will (especially with the acquisition of Lowe) have a rotation capable of going deeper into games, thereby making the pen more effective.
In addition, look at the pitching staffs of our NL East brethren. The Phillies have Hamels and a bunch of re-treads (Moyer’s 46) and never were’s. You really think that Blanton, Kendrick, Eaton and Moyer constiutute a dependable staff? You think losing Romero for 50 games won’t hurt them? You think Lidge will have another perfect season? Not to mention that Ibanez may be a downgrade from Burrell and Utley may miss time (maybe lots of it). They have NOT strengthened their team which won a WS with a smoke and mirrors rotation. Paying Howard another record arbitration settlement will also deplete their coffers and negate their ability to get someone like Lowe.
You like the Mets, but they have questions, too. With the exception of Beltran, their outfield is still up in the air. They have no middle relief. They got a set up guy that doesn’t want to BE a set up guy. They got a closer who when all is said and done, will only improve their September performance over what Wagner gave them the last two years-the guy was lights out for the rest of the seasons in 07 and 08 and hit the wall in September. They have Santana, Pelfrey, Maine who was injured late in 08 and no one else yet. They have a second baseman coming off of surgery who isn’t near the player that he used to be.
The Marlins? Is this the year Olsen decides to get his act together? Hermida? Can any more of their perpetual youth movement turn the corner? Face it-had the Braves pitching held up at all last year, the Marlins wouldn’t have even been a footnote on the season and won’t be again this year.
We need to play better against the Nats, but our revamped pitching should deal with that. Face it-if we get Lowe and a power hitting outfielder we won’t lose all those one run games and we will at the very least, contend. But we need to effectively fill those two spots first.
I can’t see any scenario where either Francoeur or Matt Diaz do not improve over 08. I mean, can they get worse? Seriously? I also don’t see any scenario where everything that can go wrong will go wrong like it did in 08. Even the most pessimistic Braves fan has got to admit that was the Poster Child for Snake Bit teams.
On another note, someone mentioned earlier that Boras would draw things out with Lowe. Y’all are aware that Spring Training starts a month from Wednesday when pitchers and catchers report? Boras doesn’t have much time even left. His players need to make plans and that time is fast approaching.
By DAP
January 12, 2009 10:34 AM | Link to this
DCBrave Don: Agree with you (10:02) that it would be hard to find a good reason for Lowe to come to the Braves given the team’s current situation
i think boras said that lowe wanted to go somewhere that would contend for the three or four years lowe was there. it doesnt look great for the braves in 2009, but lowe would do alot to get us there, and i think a selling point for the braves would be the young team they have. wren probably highlighted the young talent that is going to be here for awhile, and talked about some of the youngun’s down ont he farm. i dont think the braves look to bad to lowe, if lowe would see himself as being here already. lowe could make a big difference.
By Wayne in Utah
January 12, 2009 10:41 AM | Link to this
Dadgum I am 53 in calendar years, but this morning, I feel like what I think 70-75 would feel like!
(mentally, I feel about 28.)
Life ain’t fair sometimes!
:-)
By gclcpa
January 12, 2009 10:42 AM | Link to this
I was wondering if someone could advise me as to what the big objection to Ben Sheets is. I see that he was injured for a significant part of the 2005, 2006 and 2007 seasons, but seemed to come back quite well last year. His career ERA is slightly lower than Derek Lowe’s.
Are the injuries he experienced in 2005-07 the kind that are frequently recurring?
I guess I wish we could get both Lowe and Sheets, but since we will apparently be signing Kawakami, I guess the likelihood of that is slim. I would appreciate it if someone could fill me in as to why he is deemed to be such a step down from Lowe.
By McFann O –[zzz]
January 12, 2009 10:45 AM | Link to this
Jonathon I’d rather him spend all of the spring at Dark Star.
I feel the same way about—-
By Shaun
January 12, 2009 10:48 AM | Link to this
When that Chass article mentioned the Yankees had held preliminary talks with Smoltz, bells went off. Now it makes even more sense why Boston signed him.
Maybe. I just don’t see the Red Sox getting involved in a bidding war for a soon-to-be 42-year-old guy that could start 2 games or could start 15 games. For them I think it’s more of a low-risk, high-reward move. If the Yankees would have out-bid the Sox’s price, I suspect they would have let it go and wouldn’t have been all that upset about it.
By AustinBraves
January 12, 2009 10:48 AM | Link to this
What about a trade for Michael Young, great lead off, stoled 54 bases and lifetime 300 hitter plus gold glove SS. He said he would be willing to play 2nd, plus we would have him tide up for 5 years. We could then move Kelly to left and add Andrew for backup. I think with this trade we could afford to trade Heyward. What do you think?
By DCbrave
January 12, 2009 10:49 AM | Link to this
I think we were spoiled for a long time, many of the years toiling in an inferior division of the NL. That is only part* - Wayne
Absolutely had we been spoiled. Inferior division? Don’t think so. The Mets and Phills were pretty good for many years out of those 14 years. Even the Marlins, while only established in 1993, were competitive for some years, evidenced by two WS titles, even one more than the Braves, and the Expos, with the benefits of good farm systems, were also pretty competitive for some years. So, I don’t think many in Baseball would agree with your assertion that the NL East were an inferior division during that streak.
Folks seem to only want to talk about the Teixeira trade, and forget the Crime Dog steal
We cannot, and should not, discredit a bit what JS has done for the team. However, any smart brain will deteriorate and there should be no surprise that his bad trades were at the end of his GM run.
Your saying the team will only get worse, assumes that we cannot actually get better. I just don’t believe in being so negative
You seem to like to use the word negative or positive. That is not the point. We all should realize and speak out of the weakness of the team (your so-called negative), but that does not mean we stop there. We also need to try everything we can to negate the negatives and make the team good (your positive). The key is being realistic. Only when you were realistic and clear-minded, could you accurately analyze the situation in hand. There is a reason that President-elect Obama realizes the challegethe country is encounted and says the situation will only get worse before it gets better. With the kind of off season we have so far, one cannot stop but have that feeling. That doesn’t mean whatsoever I will not cheer for the team, see the Braves games on TV or actually see a game in the fantastic Ted when I have a chance to travel there.
By AustinBraves
January 12, 2009 10:51 AM | Link to this
I think we need to stop worrying about pitching and start worrying about hitting. We need to score some runs to back up our pitching.
By Lew
January 12, 2009 10:51 AM | Link to this
gclcpa-Perhaps you missed the fact that Sheets missed almost all of September with “elbow stiffness” and was not able to pitch in the playoffs for the Brewers, likely causing their early exit from the postseason.
By David O'Brien
January 12, 2009 10:54 AM | Link to this
I was wondering if someone could advise me as to what the big objection to Ben Sheets is. I see that he was injured for a significant part of the 2005, 2006 and 2007 seasons, but seemed to come back quite well last year. gclcpa
You need to check into how he finished the season, obviously. He was having his best year ever, then hurt his elbow and was awful in all three starts he made in September, going 0-2 with a 7.84 ERA and allowing 15 hits, 9 earned runs, 3 homers and 5 walks in 10-1/3 innings, including just 2-1/3 innings and 2 innings in the final two.
He couldn’t pitch in the postseason and was on the DL for the first-round playoff loss.
After the season, reports surfaced of possible shoulder problems in addition to the elbow issue.
By Wayne in Utah
January 12, 2009 10:54 AM | Link to this
One other positive for Lowe coming to the Braves is Boras. Scott is pretty adept at getting his guys to teams that can maximize HIS profit (although the Tex to the Yankees baffles me, as that put a limit on Manny’s suitors).
I don’t see anyone but the Mets showing much interest in Oliver Perez, although it is possible that there is interest the blogs are not reporting. So, would it make sense for Scott to send Lowe to Perez’ primary suitor, when they have said they want to signe Lowe or Perez?
With the dancers that are going to be wall flowers in one month increasing, it would behoove (did I spell that right?) Scott to get those guys lined up sooner, rather than later.
I am so torn on this, as I usually LOVE to see Scott Boras in a quandry. Wouldn’t it be sweet if the Dodgers signed Dunn, and everybody else told Manny to go pound sand!
:-)
By Random
January 12, 2009 10:54 AM | Link to this
Here’s a fairly even-handed overview of the Braves’ offseason thus far from FanGraphs.com.
Eric Seidman concludes:
“Don’t let what has not happened sour the entire offseason, however, as they did look aggressive in quickly snatching up Ross, going after Vazquez, signing Kawakami, pursuing Lowe, and emerging as a potential destination for Dunn. A picture-perfect offseason? Heck, no. A successful one, nonetheless? Let’s revisit that come March, but signing Lowe and Dunn may help fans in Atlanta forget the Smoltz and Furcal tabloid-like drama.”
By David O'Brien
January 12, 2009 10:57 AM | Link to this
DAP: One factor in Braves’ favor is their infield defense, which is superior to the Phillies (Kotchman vs. Howard?) and far superior to the Mets, whose right side is woeful.
That’s no small concern for a sinkerballer. Boras views Escobar as outstanding, Kotchman as a Gold Glove-caliber 1B, Kelly as an average defender now after making much improvement since moving to 2B, and Chipper as still a solid defensive 3B.
By gamecock Brave
January 12, 2009 10:58 AM | Link to this
Interesting comment from MLBTR on the Michael Young situatuion… he has issued a list of teams he is willing to play for, and(more relivent to us) is willing to move BACK to 2B. Just a thought, there isn’t much of in the way of the braves dealing for him but just passing some info.
By Wayne in Utah
January 12, 2009 10:58 AM | Link to this
gclcpa Go do some research on Sheets for 2008, and you will get your answer. Bad wing near the end of the season, and couldn’t make the call in the playoffs.
Scott Miller on CBS Sportsline.com has a great article on Smoltz and Hoffman that came out on Friday or Saturday.
By David O'Brien
January 12, 2009 10:59 AM | Link to this
Dadgum, welcome back. Just so you know, Kawakami’s not even remotely a “kid.” He’s 33, an 11-year veteran of Japan’s big leagues.
By DCbrave
January 12, 2009 11:00 AM | Link to this
it doesnt look great for the braves in 2009, but lowe would do alot to get us there, and i think a selling point for the braves would be the young team they have - DAP
It’s all comparative. If the first team could be a contender earlier than the second team, with the same or even slightly less offer, he may go to the first team. Now, with what the Braves have now, is the Braves the first team?
By David O'Brien
January 12, 2009 11:00 AM | Link to this
II think we need to stop worrying about pitching and start worrying about hittingAustinBraves
With a current rotation of Vazquez, Jurrjens, Kawakami and fill-in-the-blanks, you think the Braves need to stop worrying about pitching? Really?
Interesting view.
Oh, and they’re not trading Jason Heyward.
By crispy
January 12, 2009 11:01 AM | Link to this
Lew:
I think our youngins would do fine to build themselves up if bc left them in there for a full season instead of hopscothin 5 different guys around. as far the other teams’ mixes they have a few people that can take turns at carrying a team. we only have 2 guys that can do that but have a few more that can kill us, like frenchy. I cant write books like you but would be willing to engage at Dark Star.
By gclcpa
January 12, 2009 11:04 AM | Link to this
Thanks for the information guys. I now understand the objections. We don’t need another Mike Hampton.
Sorry, I have a tendancy to lose interest if the Braves are out of contention, so I really was not following that closely toward the end of last season.
By Team Physician
January 12, 2009 11:04 AM | Link to this
I have run into an unfortunate miscommunication during Mr. Kawakami’s physical exam. Does anybody know the Japanese translation for “turn your head and cough”?
I apologize to Mr. Kawakami for any misunderstanding. However, I must say his reflexes are outstanding!
By Mark
January 12, 2009 11:05 AM | Link to this
DOB,
Saw Gran Torino Friday night, it was great. Just waiting on The Wrestler to come my way. By the way you need to check out the premiere of The Beast with Swayze I think it comes on Tuesday.
Say the Braves do get Lowe, do we really need Glavine? When would he be set to come back? That pushes Campillo to the bullpen doesnt it? I know he would be great there but he has stated he likes to start. Why screw that up just for a year, maybe for Glavine?
By Steve from OH
January 12, 2009 11:06 AM | Link to this
That’s no small concern for a sinkerballer. Boras views Escobar as outstanding, Kotchman as a Gold Glove-caliber 1B, Kelly as an average defender now after making much improvement since moving to 2B, and Chipper as still a solid defensive 3B.
Great point. Didn’t even think of that, but that seems like something Lowe would indeed consider seriously. I would like to point out, however, that I think Chipper is still a very good defensive 3B (better than solid, anyway).
By shawn
January 12, 2009 11:08 AM | Link to this
DOB- Is it important that the Braves get that big LF hitter BEFORE Lowe to shop him that we are committed to contending and getting the players it takes to win?
By Wayne in Utah
January 12, 2009 11:08 AM | Link to this
DC I was talking about the years we were in the NL West, which indeed was a weaker division.
Do you really think JS got worse as he got older? The only reason the Tex trade happened is because he knew Chipper and Smoltz and Bobby were getting toward the end of the road, and wanted to give them a shot.
The one thing I have always loved about the Braves is that they never give in, until they are mathematically eliminated, or darned close.
Random Good take on the situation. thanks.
Austin We don’t need a shortstop. We have a budding star, who is worlds better defensively than Young. If we could get Young for say, Chipper, would you go for that trade? (I don’t think I would either, since Young don’t wanna play third)
Put down the crack pipe, and lay down for awhile.
Dave Man, you are just a fountain of facts this morning!
Thanks for the redo on the blog last night.
By Wayne in Utah
January 12, 2009 11:13 AM | Link to this
KK is going to be a lot of fun to have around.
McFann Definitely agree on the WBC. Huge risk, and nobody has shown a realistic view of the upside for MLB teams yet.
By DCbrave
January 12, 2009 11:14 AM | Link to this
Hi DOB:
Is there any news on the positions of the Padres’ new ownership with keeping or trading Peavy? If there is a chance, I really hope the Braves could revisit the Peavy matter.
By David O'Brien
January 12, 2009 11:15 AM | Link to this
Jerald, Rourke did, indeed, win best actor at the Globes. Can’t wait to see The Wrestler, which starts here this week. By the way, Springsteen and his wife were there, down near the front with the rest of The Wrestler group. (Springsteen did an original song for the movie, as you probably know.) Rourke thanked him along with a bunch of other people, including, yes, Axl Rose, who apparently let them use Sweet Child O’ Mine in the movie for free when they had no money to buy the rights to the song.
By PhillyRob
January 12, 2009 11:16 AM | Link to this
DOB, any word on whether we’re on Young’s list? If so, do you think we could build a package without Hanson/Heyward that would interest the Rangers?
By AustinBraves
January 12, 2009 11:20 AM | Link to this
All I am saying, is if we can’t score runs it doesn’t matter who is pitching. How many games did we lose last year by one run?
By Jonathon
January 12, 2009 11:21 AM | Link to this
Kawakami will NOT be playing for Japan’s WBC team. He was not listed on their 34-man preliminary roster.
Complete Roster: Pitcher: Daisuke Matsuzaka (Boston Red Sox), Hiroki Kuroda (Los Angeles Dodgers), Takashi Saito (free agent), Takayuki Kishi (Seibu Lions), Hideaki Wakui (Seibu Lions), Satoshi Komatsu (Orix Buffaloes), Yu Darvish (Nippon Ham Fighters), Shunsuke Watanabe (Lotte Marines), Masahiro Tanaka (Rakuten Eagles), Hisashi Iwakuma (Rakuten Eagles), Takahiro Mahara (Softbank Hawks), Tsuyoshi Wada (Softbank Hawks), Toshiya Sugiuchi (Softbank Hawks), Tetsuya Utsumi (Yomiuri Giants), Tetsuya Yamaguchi (Yomiuri Giants), Kyuji Fujikawa (Hanshin Tigers)
Catcher: Kenji Johjima (Seattle Mariners), Toru Hosokawa (Seibu Lions), Shinnosuke Abe (Yomiuri Giants), Yoshiyuki Ishihara (Hiroshima Carp)
Infielder: Akinori Iwamura (Tampa Bay Rays), Hiroyuki Nakajima (Seibu Lions), Yasuyuki Kataoka (Seibu Lions), Nobuhiko Matsunaka (Softbank Hawks), Munenori Kawasaki (Softbank Hawks), Michihiro Ogasawara (Yomiuri Giants), Kenta Kurihara (Hiroshima Carp), Shuichi Murata (Yokohama BayStars)
Outfielder: Ichiro Suzuki (Seattle Mariners), Kosuke F******* (Chicago Cubs), Atsunori Inaba (Nippon Ham Fighters), Yoshiyuki Kamei (Yomiuri Giants), Norichika Aoki (Yakult Swallows), Seichi Uchikawa (Yokohama BayStars)
By Lew
January 12, 2009 11:22 AM | Link to this
Crispy-If you engage at Dark Star, it’ll be with someone else. I’ll be staying in the snow this year.
As for the others having someone to carry the team-Santana and Hamels? They’re good, but it doesn’t make up for the deficiencies with the rest of their staffs.
So far this winter, I don’t see the Phillies having improved at all (maybe got somewhat weaker-LOTS weaker if Utley can’t go for an appreciable length of time) and the Mets have done exactly what I said in my “book”.- They got a closer who should improve them for one month over Wagner’s last two years and a disaffected set up guy who wants to close. They’ve done nothing else to fill their holes and I strongly suspect they have no money left since Wilpon lost a fortune in the Ponzi scheme. They better hope the Senate doesn’t raise hell for Citibank’s taking billions in bail out money and then spending $20 mil for naming rights. There are some P!$$ed politicians that might want to remedy THAT situation.
We may not have become juggernauts, but with the addition of Vasquez and Kawakami, we’re stronger in our weaknesses over last year. The others? Not so much.
Sorry, but if the Braves make a couple more moves, I just don’t see either the Phillies or Mets being unbeatable-even by the Braves.
By DCbrave
January 12, 2009 11:22 AM | Link to this
DC I was talking about the years we were in the NL West, which indeed was a weaker division - Wayne
Oh, did not realize you meant the West. Interesting you chose 3 out of 14 years to make a point though.
As to Schuerholz, I absolutely believe he got worse at the end, which may have contributed to his “promotion.” Look who is in charge of the team now: the chairman and CEO, McGuirk and GM Wren. Schuerholz appears almost nonexistent these days.
By SC Ace
January 12, 2009 11:22 AM | Link to this
Are the Braves interested in Chone Figgins? Seems like they were interested in the GA native a couple years ago. Could be a useful “super-sub” guy, potential leadoff man, and fill-in when Chipper’s down.
By AlwaysABrave
January 12, 2009 11:23 AM | Link to this
DOB Is there any possibility that the Braves could look to trade for Michael Young to play second and move Kelly to left? Young’s not exactly a power threat, but he could give you some additional speed on the bases, run production, and he’s an above average fielder.
I’m not a big fan of trading away the talent necessary to complete such a trade, but I was wondering your thoughts on whether you would advise such a move.
By McFann O –[zzz]
January 12, 2009 11:23 AM | Link to this
Wayne—
Very huge risk…I don’t like it at all. And yeah, I’d like to hear someone give a realistic upside for MLB teams. I mean, why in the name of all that is holy did they pick March?? I mean, out of all the months in the off-season, they couldn’t find time for it?
}: (
By DAP
January 12, 2009 11:23 AM | Link to this
gclcpa the problem with sheets is that he ended the 2008 season hurt. couldnt pitch down the stretch or in the playoffs. this is what sperates him from a guy like burnett, who is also injury prone, but at least was healthy last anyone checked. sheets was not healthy last we checked.
austinbraves who would we trade to the rangers for young? and would you want to pay young $12mil per year for 5 more years?
DOB good point about defense. ours is certainly better than the “big two” in the NL east.
By David O'Brien
January 12, 2009 11:23 AM | Link to this
mbatl: Signing Lowe and Dunn (if it were to happen, that is) wouldn’t put Braves “well past” $40 mill. They’ve spent about $20 mill for next year with additions of Vazquez, Ross and Kawakami, if the latter’s about $7 mill. Have you seen what Burrell signed for? Say they get Dunn for less than $10 mill per in a three-year deal (just throwing a number out there, based on recent market for these guys), and Lowe in a deal with escalating salaries, a deal that pays him, say, $13-14-15 mill in a three-year, $42 million deal.
Then you’re talking about $42 mill or so spent for next season.
Something like that, just giving you some idea of how it could easily work.
By AustinBraves
January 12, 2009 11:24 AM | Link to this
Wayne in Utah You must not have read the entire blog. I said use Young at 2nd and move Kelly to LF. Would you like to borrow that crack pipe. I think you need it.
By David O'Brien
January 12, 2009 11:28 AM | Link to this
The last blog should come up now, for anyone who wants to peruse it (some had mentioned above wanting to see this comment or that one).
By Cook
January 12, 2009 11:29 AM | Link to this
Frank Wren was on 790 this morning, he kept everything close to the vest as expected. He had some interesting comments about Smoltz, saying they made the offer to him “out of respect.” Didn’t sound like they had any real intention of resigning him b/c they weren’t sure when he’d be able to pitch. That was my take on it anyway.
But he did say he had a trade proposal on his desk right now, something that has been 6 weeks in the making. Interesting…
Also, he basically said the Peavy deal is not an option anymore, no real surprise there.
By DAP
January 12, 2009 11:29 AM | Link to this
guys, even if we are on youngs list, what use do we have for him? he is an overpaid middle infielder with decent power. we already have a couple of those…minus the overpaid part.
By Lew
January 12, 2009 11:32 AM | Link to this
StevefromOh-From the other day. Didn’t know there even WAS another Japanese Hair Band-at least not that got the play Loudness did. You’re right, though-their guitarist is damn good and they are still together from what I understand.
I worked doing rock and roll art for a radio station in the late 80’s and early 90’s and saw many of the Hair Metal bands in their heyday. There were some good ones like Cinderella-Tom Kiefer is a fine musician and there were several others who played some kickin hard rock. Unfortunately, there were also some dogs like Poison. That band sucked horrendously. Unfortunately I saw first hand-took my son to see them with Britanny Fox (not bad) and Lita Ford (i will never disparage good looking blondes wearing leather).
Kix was pretty good-so were L.A Guns and King’s X. Winger and Bullet Boys-not so much.
By DCbrave
January 12, 2009 11:34 AM | Link to this
Hi DOB: Really enjoyed the quickness of the repost blog this morning. If it’s not too much work, is it possible that the limit of each blog can be set at 500 posts, and if it is crashed before your new one is supposed to be up, simply repost the old one?
By 18 Wheels of Love
January 12, 2009 11:36 AM | Link to this
How good is 30 Rock? I’ve been watching the DVD’s the past few days….great writing. Dare I say it is up there with Arrested Development? I think so. Speaking of AD…more and more talk about the movie lately.
“Look who’s on the hawg behind us!” - Lindsey Bluth
“George Michael!!!” - Michael Bluth
By crispy
January 12, 2009 11:38 AM | Link to this
Lew: havent been keeping up on other teams status, been job hunting. Thats what i depend on you and the others for. After nearly 6 feet of snow and dropping mercury i need some vitamin D. thanks for all the good data.
By rammerjammer
January 12, 2009 11:40 AM | Link to this
Shaun,
We’ll never know, of course, if there were ulterior motives behind the Red Sox decision to sign Smoltz. The suddenness with which this transpired left me suspicious, and introducing the Yankee element into the equation does, to me, fill in one of the blanks. But it’s just speculation on my part.
By Mark in Indy
January 12, 2009 11:42 AM | Link to this
But he did say he had a trade proposal on his desk right now, something that has been 6 weeks in the making. Interesting…
Not sure if anyone else heard it, but Bobby Cox was on MLB Homeplate on XM last week, and said something similar. I think his exact comments were that the Braves needed to add another bat, and that Wren had been working really hard make a deal happen, and that it looked like they could make it work ……. My guess would be this proposal on his desk is what Bobby was talking about.
By DAP
January 12, 2009 11:42 AM | Link to this
wayne DC I was talking about the years we were in the NL West, which indeed was a weaker division - Wayne
dc brave already pointed out that the braves were only there for three years, but also realize that the braves beat the dodgers (who won 93 games) by one game in ‘91, 2nd place cincinatti won 90 games in ‘92, and who can forget the giants who won 103 games in ‘93. also, in these three year there were alot more teams in each division.
there were a few years when the braves really ran away with the division, but most years the braves won because they were really just that good.
By AustinBraves
January 12, 2009 11:42 AM | Link to this
Cook What else did Wren say? What type of trade or when it may happen? I don’t here alot in Austin, Texas.
By Efrim
January 12, 2009 11:43 AM | Link to this
But he did say he had a trade proposal on his desk right now, something that has been 6 weeks in the making. Interesting…
A complete guess on my part, but could it be for Jermaine Dye? I just keep thinking about Kenny Williams need for a CF prospect. I don’t think the Braves would part with Jordan Schafer for Jermaine Dye(makes no sense), but Gorkys Hernandez? I wouldn’t put it past Wren to trade him in a deal like that. In my opinion, the most tradeable “top prospects” this offseason were Hernandez and Flowers. Of course, I’d rather sign Dunn or Abreu than to trade for Dye. I know we need a right handed bat, but when you have 20 million to spend and you want to keep your top prospects, getting a free agent at a below market price makes more sense.
By Steve from OH
January 12, 2009 11:43 AM | Link to this
Kix was pretty good-so were L.A Guns and King’s X. Winger and Bullet Boys-not so much.
I loved Kix and King’s X. And Cinderella as well (agreed on Keifer). I think that they all were damn good musicians (take Kip Winger for instance, that dude could play, and Reb Beach can play circles around darn near anyone). Unfortunately for some of them, they decided to write incredibly cheesy music.
And yes, Poison takes sucking to a whole ‘nother level. Now, Whitesnake on the other hand….[covers head from DOB attack]
By dogsbrekky
January 12, 2009 11:46 AM | Link to this
Boys we will get lowe, relax
As for Sheets he is a real BIG liability and NO-ONE wants the risk at anything approaching any decent price…
see this blog on his mechanics http://www.chrisoleary.com/projects/Baseball/Pitching/ProfessionalPitcherAnalyses/BenSheets_001.html
I would leave the Rnagers SS alone, getting slow, old and too expensive by a LONG WAY….
DOB and boys The Wrestler
Saw this a week or so ago in NYC at a small independent theatre, AWESOME movie and a very powerful performance
It really keeps you glued to the screen and there are SOME VERY GUTSY ballbreaking scenes… I LOVED IT 5/5 stars
By Lew
January 12, 2009 11:48 AM | Link to this
Crispy-Six feet of snow? Damn-we don’t have that much in Vermont. Where are you located? The Vitamin D is definitely a good thing.
We’ve been below zero at night the past several days. With the upcoming forecast, looks like there will be a couple days where we don’t hit positive digits all day. Lucky that I’ve got lots of liquified dinosaurs in the tank. We’ll need them.
By McFann O –[zzz]
January 12, 2009 11:49 AM | Link to this
18 Wheels of Love How good is 30 Rock?
“Honestly, not enough people know that show.”
By BA
January 12, 2009 11:50 AM | Link to this
Lew, if Olsen does get it together, it will be in D.C., where they traded him too. Otherwise, a lot of good points in your long post earlier. I don’t get why people think the Mutts and Phillies are such stalwarts in this division, with very suspect pitching staffs in both cities.
By BA
January 12, 2009 11:53 AM | Link to this
Hey AustinBraves, if Young is demanding a trade because he doesn’t want to move to third, then why would he want to move to second AFTER he’s been traded? Get that pipe back from Wayne…
By crispy
January 12, 2009 11:57 AM | Link to this
DOB:
couldnt you get them to do a better job with the poll? selecting 8 different times and viewing 8 different polls may raise too many red flags that might get someone fired at work.
By Cook
January 12, 2009 11:59 AM | Link to this
I’m guessing the trade FW was talking about was for a bat, like a couple of you have said. He didn’t say anything specific, obviously, so it’s just my speculation. Perhaps Dye or Ankiel? Not sure.
AustinBraves - He didn’t too say much else worth noting…they asked about Andruw and he wouldn’t comment due to tampering issues since Andruw is still under contract with the Dodgers.
He said that he didn’t expect the price for Lowe to go up based on losing Smoltz, but I think he’s kidding himself. I’m certain Boras will use the Braves’ desperation (whether it’s real or perceived) to squeeze out a few more (million) bucks from the Braves.
By PhillyRob
January 12, 2009 12:02 PM | Link to this
Hey BA, I think i read on mlbtraderumors that Young would only consider moving back to 2nd and only if that was for another team. Looks like he might really be pushing for his departure from Texas.
After reading a few other posts though, I’d kind of agree that it really doesn’t make much sense to persue him. He doesn’t exactly fill the same voids that Furcal would have.
By crispy
January 12, 2009 12:03 PM | Link to this
Lew: i’m in syracuse, but seemed to get missed by every storm. by missed i mean when they say 10-12 i get the 10. gonna get cold this week thats for sure. lookin to move south for more money and warmth.
By Jonathon
January 12, 2009 12:03 PM | Link to this
This is probably close to sacrilege, but you could trade for Michael Young and keep him at SS. Just include Chipper in the deal, and shift Yunel to 3B. That’s not going to happen, so I don’t think Young is coming to Atlanta.
By Harry
January 12, 2009 12:03 PM | Link to this
Springsteen is a fraud. Blue collar everyman, singing for the downtrodden, extolling us to “rise up” after 9/11. Then he pops on his gulfstream and flies from his 20 million dollar compound in NJ to hobnob with the self-absorbed hollywood elite at the Golden Globes. Give me a break.
By Wayne in Utah
January 12, 2009 12:04 PM | Link to this
BA* and AustinBraves
Guys, I don’t need that pipe, I got my own stash here!
Austin: If the Rangers want to move him and his big old salary, and if he would move to back to second, I would be OK with that so long as we don’t have to give them too much. Taking on that much salary for a 32 year old? I don’t know if I would give too much. Maybe offer Matt Diaz or one of our CF’ers (Blanco or Anderson) Maybe throw in a minor leaguer who is not one of our top 20.
I wonder who this trade offer is for??? Inquiring mines want to know…
By DCbrave
January 12, 2009 12:06 PM | Link to this
By BA
January 12, 2009 11:53 AM | Link to this
Hey AustinBraves, if Young is demanding a trade because he doesn’t want to move to third, then why would he want to move to second AFTER he’s been traded? Get that pipe back from Wayne… -BA
Second is much more closer to SS than third (not only literally), and he used to play second before 2004. Want to borrow the pipe? :-)
By flange1
January 12, 2009 12:08 PM | Link to this
Afternoon all,
Been traveling and have just got back to the old blog, I have not read the last 2 so excuse me if this has been discussed.
The signing of KK is a good thing. We need all the help we can get!
As I see it right now, we are set with 2,3, and 4 with JJJ,Javy and KK.
That leaves Morton, Hanson and JoJo to fight it out for the 5 spot (Glavine too if he is able.)
I am wondering if the signing of KK doesn’t spell a trade for Morton and/or JoJo.
DOB said a week ago that it doesn’t make a lot of sense to send either Morton or JoJo to Gwinnett.
I wonder if the trade proposal on FW’s desk is B Jones and Charlie Morton for Jermaine Dye…..
By Shaun
January 12, 2009 12:08 PM | Link to this
We’ll never know, of course, if there were ulterior motives behind the Red Sox decision to sign Smoltz. The suddenness with which this transpired left me suspicious, and introducing the Yankee element into the equation does, to me, fill in one of the blanks. But it’s just speculation on my part.
rammerjammer, From what I’ve heard, the Red Sox had been interested for a while. There had been whispers of their interest all off-season. Not saying an interest by the Yankees didn’t give them extra motivation but I doubt it was their primary motivation. But who knows for sure? No matter the motivation, he’s there. And I think it’s a good low-risk, high-reward move for a super-rich franchise.
By richbrave
January 12, 2009 12:12 PM | Link to this
Just thinking about the bad vibes from the SMOLTZ thing. If I were LOWE and considering coming to ATLANTA, I would be RELIEVED that JOHN’s shadow wasn’t hanging over the mid-season line-up. Same for GLAVINE. With the two pitcher signings I could be considered #1 in the rotation. This gives me more leverage in negotiating with the BRAVES. This seems to be all about the money anyway, so who gives a rip if the BRAVES are 4th. I’ve got a four year guaranteed contract and I’m forty when its up. Essentially, my career is done. Bonus, I get to play with CHIP JONES and for BOBBY COX one year before the last two MOHICANS leave the reservation.
By Cook
January 12, 2009 12:14 PM | Link to this
As for this trade proposal Wren talked about…I’m guessing he gets tons of proposals that come across his desk, so it could be no big deal. But he brought it up on the radio, so I thought I’d mention it…
By Wayne in Utah
January 12, 2009 12:14 PM | Link to this
Jonathan You think we could sell Chipper off as a young third baseman?
Does he still have that soul patch? That’d have to go…
:-)
By BA
January 12, 2009 12:16 PM | Link to this
crispy- don’t fall for it- there’s no money down here! But you sure wouldn’t have trouble finding a house for sale.
By BA
January 12, 2009 12:17 PM | Link to this
Sure, DCbrave. It’s after noon, right? Pass that thing back…
By Shaun
January 12, 2009 12:18 PM | Link to this
I think Michael Young is too expensive and a little too old for what the Braves are trying to build, in my opinion.
As I said before, I think the Braves should generally look to build a playoff contender when guys like Heyward and Schafer come of age and when Kelly Johnson, Escobar, Jurrjens and McCann are in or around their primes.
By justdoit
January 12, 2009 12:18 PM | Link to this
But he did say he had a trade proposal on his desk right now, something that has been 6 weeks in the making. Interesting..
maybe Grienke and Guillen or J Dye
By Mark
January 12, 2009 12:20 PM | Link to this
DOB,
Just saw where Gonzo and Soriano are going to be FA next year and I was just wondering are they thinking about talking extension with Gonzo if he performs well this year? We def. need to let Soriano go, that much money for a big question mark. Do you think the Braves would let him go through FA or just sign him for a couple more years before the season ends?
By DERRICK
January 12, 2009 12:22 PM | Link to this
MAY HAVE BEEN ASKED ALREADY—>
with furcal come and gone would the braves make sense to pursue michael young from texas? it would be the same movements as if furcal was coming here…have you heard anything texas might be conjurring up to want in return?
By Wayne in Utah
January 12, 2009 12:25 PM | Link to this
Did I hear somewhere that Brandon Jones had some kind of injury that might have hindered his power output last season??
Maybe it was a dream
By Anders
January 12, 2009 12:26 PM | Link to this
Lew
With the crashing of the blog yesterday I wasn’t able to get back to you regarding your claim that by signing Lowe the Braves are indeed contenders. I don’t see how that can be? They finished 20 games behind the Phils and 17 behind the Mets. While Lowe would be a solid addition he would just be replacing Hudson who pitched 2/3’s of the season and had 11 wins. So let’s give Lowe 16 wins. That’s 5 more. Where are the other 12 to 15 coming from? Vasquez? I don’t see it.
Plus the Met’s blew 29 games last year. 29! They’ve attacked that problem. Is it solved? Can’t say that until they play the games. If they sign Perez they are bringing back basically the same team with a rebuilt bullpen. I would expect at least what they won last year and probably more in 2009 if the bullpen performs. I haven’t seen nearly enough from the Braves this off season to significantly close that gap imo.
By rammerjammer
January 12, 2009 12:28 PM | Link to this
Shaun,
In the same way it made no sense for Atlanta to pursue a starter for half a season’s work, it made perfect sense for Boston. Two teams with different needs, and I think Frank is doing just what he needs to do.
By Wayne in Utah
January 12, 2009 12:30 PM | Link to this
Derrick Check MLBTraderumors.com for the scoop.
By ernesto
January 12, 2009 12:32 PM | Link to this
I threw out the Young thing last week, but really other than kiling hot stove time it doesn’t make much sense for the Bravos.
He’s not a pro-typical lead-off guy. He batted 2nd in the Rangers order. He’s older. He’s more expensive. And he doesn’t bring the speed/base stealing threat that Raffy would have.
I’d rather keep Esco and KJ and find an a LFer.
DOB - what do you suppose Diaz thinks about this aggressive pursuit of an OF? Granted he can’t consider himself a “big bat” though he hits for average.
It was supposedly his job last year, must be a bitter pill to swallow to think he lost after less than 2 months.
By Roger
January 12, 2009 12:32 PM | Link to this
If the Braves sign Lowe or go after another established starter, where do the youngsters fit? We started this offseason with Wren saying he wanted to acquire 2 established SPs, and if you count Kawakami he’s done that. Maybe not the caliber we all hoped for, but the roster spots are filled.
If we have Lowe, Jurrjens, Vazquez, and Kawakami as the first 4, then Reyes, Morton, Campillo, Parr, and Hanson go into spring fighting for the last spot. Parr and Hanson can reasonably go to AAA if they lose. Should the losers among Reyes/Morton/Campillo go to the pen? Seems like whether there’ll be room for them in the pen depends a lot on how healthy Gonzalez, Soriano, Moylan, etc., are.
By BravesFanInRockies
January 12, 2009 12:35 PM | Link to this
Lew,
Can’t disagree with anything in you 10:24. Nice job.
AustinBraves
Rangers are looking for a young-ish 3B and pitching. That’s why they asked Young to change positions — both to improve the team at third and to bring up Andrus. And I wouldn’t trade Yunel for him, simply because Yunel is a plus defender at SS and Young isn’t. And I don’t think Yunel is a plus hitter at 3B. Just don’t see the fit.
shawn
If Lowe is motivated by defense, as he may be, the Braves might be better off locking him up before signing Dunn!!
By Voice of Reason
January 12, 2009 12:40 PM | Link to this
As I sit and ponder Wren’s comment - has been 6 weeks in the making - it occurs to me that it can’t be a passing random trade offer if it has been “in the making”. That says to me that Wren has been involved in its making. It must be under real consideration.
And if they are seriously pursuing Lowe, the trade proposal has to involve an outfielder, doesn’t it?
By BA
January 12, 2009 12:42 PM | Link to this
anders, the only question with the Mutts is WHEN does the bedwetting start- early in the year (preferable) or late in the year (far more entertaining). When does the fingerpointing start? When’s the first time Jose Reyes shows his azz? Where does the manager musical chairs game start THIS year?
O.k., that was four questions.
By mbatl
January 12, 2009 12:42 PM | Link to this
I think the Braves should generally look to build a playoff contender when guys like Heyward and Schafer come of age and when Kelly Johnson, Escobar, Jurrjens and McCann are in or around their primes.
Shaun, I agree on Young (no need for him and his salary), but I just don’t see any reason to write off 2009. First, Heyward probably won’t be an impact player until 2011 (maybe a 2010 September callup?).
2nd, I’d say given the position he plays, McCann is in his prime right now.
3rd. Chipper may not be over hill, but he’s close to the top of it. And we don’t know for sure if he’ll be playing for us after ‘09.
And 4th, I’d say that KJ and Escobar are pretty much at their primes too.
Last year, we finished 6th in the NL in runs scored (not bad) despite Tex’s slow start, and then despite dumping Tex and Kotsay at the deadline. And we actually scored more runs/game after Tex left than before.
And we spent most of the 2nd half last year with a rotation of Jurrjens, Hampton (just getting into form), Morton, Campillo, Reyes, and Parr. (and without Gonzo, Moylan and Soriano, for the most part)
Sign Lowe, find a bat for LF and hope for reasonable production from Frenchy (just .250/.320/.400 would be acceptable), and I think this team is a contender. But not so old or contract-laden that we won’t be able to let the young guys grow into contributing.
I think Vazquez will surprise a lot of people. If Kawakami is similar to Kuroda (and his numbers in Japan are comparable), he’ll be better than an average mid-rotation starter; Lowe and Jurrjens should be solid, and who knows, maybe Hanson will be ready to provide a late season lift to the rotation… and maybe even Hudson (though I doubt that one).
Anway, this team has too much talent to forego winning for 2 years waiting for some guys to reach their primes.
By Wren is WRONG
January 12, 2009 12:43 PM | Link to this
Wren ?
WRONG !
By BravesFanInRockies
January 12, 2009 12:43 PM | Link to this
Roger,
That’s a problem the Braves would like to have. Remember before last season they were worried about “too much” depth, too, and see where that got us.
By AustinBraves
January 12, 2009 12:44 PM | Link to this
Roger I agree with you. I think we can be contenders witout Lowe but I sure would love to have him. We have alot of options Reyes,Morton,Campillo, Parr, Hanson and don’t forget Glavine. What we need is bats!! How old is Heyward? When will he beable to come up to the majors? Remember Andrew was only 19 and played in the World Series. I just want to see some big hitters. What are the stats on Heyward? Is there a website I can go to and see all of Atlanta’s minor league stats?
By Anders
January 12, 2009 12:45 PM | Link to this
Lew
Where are the other 12 to 15 coming from? Vasquez? I don’t see it.
Of course keep in mind Vasquez is replacing someone too. Even if it’s a guy with 5 wins he’d have to win 17 to 20 total to net the games needed. Very doubtful.
I think the Braves would do well to close the gap by 10 games with the addition of Lowe and a good left field bat, but that’s not contending.
By Shaun
January 12, 2009 12:45 PM | Link to this
rammerjammer, I agree with your 12:28 100 percent. Wren is doing a fine job and getting too much heat for it.
He has an eye toward 2010-2012 but he’s also trying to build a team that could contend in 2009 if things go right.
By Tomas
January 12, 2009 12:45 PM | Link to this
Dunn for less than 10 million per year really? Wow, what a differrence a year makes. I think he wants at least more money than Ibañez, just because he is younger, has more power, and a bigger on base percentage. His defense isn’t that bad, he has better defense than Burrel.
I would love to have Michael Young in my team, the Braves. But what would the Rangers ask in return? Martin Prado, Charlie Morton, Blaine Boyer, and Jeff Locke for Michael Young and cash(around 15 million to pay for that huge contract). If they really were serious about having 45-48 million this offseason. He would play 2B, and be a great dp combo with Yunel, and they could move Kelly to left field. But first thing is they need to sign Derek Lowe, then they could go after Young, Hudson, Abreu, or Dunn, depending on their amount of money left.
Young would be 33 next season, and has a contract of 5 years 62 million. He is overpriced in current market value, and if a team is going to give a lot of prospects to get this guy, the Rangers will have to eat a large portion of his contract. But I really doubt the Braves want to trade more prospects, when they could just sign Abreu, Dunn, or Hudson for less than 10 mill/per year.
By Jonathon
January 12, 2009 12:46 PM | Link to this
By Wayne in Utah
January 12, 2009 12:14 PM | Link to this
Jonathan You think we could sell Chipper off as a young third baseman?
Does he still have that soul patch? That’d have to go…
:-)
Exactly, Wayne. That’s why I don’t see it happening. However, it would make the Braves younger in the infield (Young is 31). Texas might not like Chipper’s age, but he’s a switch-hitter, a good defensive 3B, has a home in Texas already, and can be utilized at DH to avoid to much wear and tear. It also adds even more cachet to there lineup. Imagine Chipper and Josh Hamilton, 3-4, for the Rangers? Braves could keep Yunel, add another righty to the lineup and shore up the lineup for the forseeable future. Just sayin …
By BravesFanInRockies
January 12, 2009 12:47 PM | Link to this
The Braves entered spring training last year expecting to have Smoltz, Hudson, Glavine, Hampton, JJ, JoJo, Bennett, maybe Morton in the rotation. And the pen would be stocked with Moylan, Acosta, Boyer, Ring and Ohman, with Gonzo in the wings. Am I missing anybody?
If all the guys pitch lights out in March, the ones you can’t send out to the minors are trading pieces for prospects or bench guys. I’m not at all worried about how you shuffle the roster.
By Moby Grape
January 12, 2009 12:48 PM | Link to this
that I think Chipper is still a very good defensive 3B (better than solid, anyway). Steve Ohio
Steve, I know you follow stats, are you into defensive stats at all? I ask because you say that Chips is still a very good defender. For a number of years Jones was considered one of the worst defensive third sackers in baseball by most everybody into stats and many who weren’t. He has improved some since returning to third and has indeed become pretty solid, much better than he was, but Chipper Jones & very good defender are not two things that many non-Braves fans will ever associate together even now.
By Mark
January 12, 2009 12:50 PM | Link to this
Anders,
You also have to take into account that the Braves were in a lot of games and lost by one run. The OF bat seems like it may go along way. If they could cut the number in half of the one run games they lost that increases in by like 10 doesnt it?
By Random
January 12, 2009 12:53 PM | Link to this
DCbrave: “I never resort to name calling because it’s not my style. But your words did make me wonder whether they actually imply something about the size of your brain/head, randomly or otherwise.”
“Hey”, chill, dude — it was a joke. Just a plain old normal-headed joke.
(You do realize that you only selectively quoted me, right? What? You don’t read parentheticals either? I thought the immediately adjacent parenthetical made it clear that I was joking.)
I later in the comment shot one at KC, Shaun and myself in the same vein.
PS: I thought it was way cool for Stinson to quote you.
PPS: Instead of posting this twice, can I trust everyone to read it twice?
Thanks — yer on yer honor.
By Shaun
January 12, 2009 12:53 PM | Link to this
Anders and Lew, The Mets and Phillies are the favorites, I believe. But I wouldn’t be shocked if the Braves challenged them. I do believe the Braves will be better than people think.
By JB
January 12, 2009 12:58 PM | Link to this
Somewhere in the neighborhood of 40 losses, in 2008, were compliments of a weakened bullpen overworked due to replacement starters who were AAAA at best not pitching deep enough to give the bullpen a break.
Lousy starting pitching cost the Braves a chance at many opportunities and the bullpen getting warmed up in the 3rd inning of most games.
I just don’t know how close to 90-100 games the Braves would have won with the original plan of pitchers the whole year?
By winterville
January 12, 2009 12:59 PM | Link to this
Anders
You really don’t think if we got Lowe and a LF’er we would contend? I find that hard to believe. Just like you don’t think the Mets bullpen could possibly blow that many games again this year, I don’t think it is possible for us to lose as many one run games again this year. We underachieved last year to a great degree. Our record last year was terrible and you may call me blind or naive but I really know that we were better than that. The way I see it, we don’t have to make up as many games as you seem to think. We should have easily been a .500 team last year without so many significant injuries and nagging ones (Chipper, Escobar.) I just don’t think you can only look at last year and decide that there is no way we will contend. I’m not being sarcastic but just try and look at our team objectively if we were to add Lowe and a LF’er. We would have a solid squad and I think you are playing a bit of Anders Advocate on this one.
By rammerjammer
January 12, 2009 1:00 PM | Link to this
My apologies if this was posted earlier…from ESPN story in November on Japanese pitchers (listing Kawakami as the best of a meager lot, but otherwise not an overwhelmingly positive assessment):
“Kawakami is a bulldog on the mound, but the right-hander’s durability became an issue after he hit the skids following a 9-1 start in 2006. His ERA jumped more than 2.5 runs after June 23 that season, and he finished 17-7.
“Scouts Isao Ojimi of the New York Mets and Steve Wilson of the Chicago Cubs said Kawakami, who was 9-5 with a 2.30 ERA this season, would be a good fit in the majors as a fifth starter and will benefit from as much extra rest as he can get.
“Unlike Kuroda, who put together mouth-watering ERAs despite pitching in Japan’s best hitters’ park, Kawakami’s 3.22 career ERA was fashioned in an extreme pitchers’ park with one of the country’s better defensive units playing behind him.
“Kawakami likely has the best cutter in Japan. Although he has exceptional control with his 92 mph fastball, it lacks movement and gets hit hard. He also has a two-seamer that runs in on right-handers, a slider and a slow curve. Kawakami experimented with a forkball this year, and his groundouts increased sharply.
“Because of his tenacity and his command, Kawakami should adjust to the challenges of the majors.”
By DCbrave
January 12, 2009 1:02 PM | Link to this
Random:
My bad. As I just came back and was scanning the blogs, was not able to digest everything. A hot-headed response on my part. I generally enjoy your posts anyway, and believe you were pretty funny. Now I realize you were just trying to be funny. Again, my bad. You have a big head too :-)
By mbatl
January 12, 2009 1:06 PM | Link to this
Michael Young’s OPS the last four years:
2005: .898
2006: .815
2007: .784
2008: .741
Anyone see a pattern here? He’s been a nice player, but at 32 is clearly not what he once was, and has a huge contract. I’d rather go with Prado at 2B if we want to move KJ to LF (and I’m not advocating that either)
By Wayne in Utah
January 12, 2009 1:07 PM | Link to this
Mark/Lew/Shaun/everybody but Anders:
sssshhh We don’t want him hearing this. Let him keep thinking the Mets are getting better, and the Braves MIGHT make up 10 games, that way, if we fall on our faces again, we don’t have to eat any crow.
The plus; if we get a few breaks and a few of the right guys come around, we can break their hearts in September, with Hanson leading the charge into October!
A guys gotta dream some, huh?
By DCbrave
January 12, 2009 1:07 PM | Link to this
PPS: Instead of posting this twice, can I trust everyone to read it twice? - Random
I apologized for the accidental duplication right after that. What? You randomly read posts too? :-)
By Lew
January 12, 2009 1:09 PM | Link to this
Anders- You seemingly have forgotten improvement by Loss Avoidance (Lord, I’m sounding like Shaun).
You need to look at why the Braves lost 90 games last year. I doubt anyone will argue that there were three major factors in the futility our 08 record-1.No pitching, either starters remaining healthy, or effectiveness from the pen due to overuse. 2. No power from the outfield and 3. An excess of one run losses.
Now, what have the Braves done (or are about to do) to change these scenarios? First they had no 200 IP starters last year. Should they sign Lowe, then they’ve added two (with Vasquez) and maybe three if Jurrjens can boost his IP by several innings (he threw 178 last year). Do you seriously think we would have lost 90 last season if we had 2-3 200 inning pitchers?
This addition will also improve our overworked bullpen merely by the fact they will work less. Add to that the fact that we will have Soriano, Moylan and Gonzo for the entire season (hard to do much with zero closers for half a year and then add one coming back fron TJ surgery). Add to this the potential emergence of Medlen and Marek and this should be of immeasurable help avoiding one run losses.
Add a power bat (say Dunn for argument’s sake) and your one run losses also decrease. A decrease of 50% in one run losses (easily attainable with the previously mentioned additions) and there’s more than half of your 20 games right there. Any improvement by Francoeur and Kotchman only fuel our team improvement and I doubt they will perform as poorly as they did in 08 (with Casey, after he was traded). Surely their performances can’t be any worse-they almost HAVE to get better just by virtue of how bad 08 was-truly at rock bottom.
Add to this the fact as I mentioned previously that the Phillies are not stronger and the Mets aren’t either- unless they pull off some pitching acquisitions and I think we’re right there.
Of course that is contingent upon the Braves making those acquisitions. To this point we’ve only gotten better than the Marlins with the pitchers we added.
By TennesseePaul
January 12, 2009 1:12 PM | Link to this
DOB: I think you’ll enjoy The Wrestler. It a great film. Depressing. But not to the point of death like other depressing films. It’s impressive. The way it was filmed. How the characters are introduced. Very well done for a “low budget” film. Micky did a fabulous job as well. I haven’t yet seen all the movies in the runnings, but I can see where this is in the top. And, from what I’ve seen so far, it’s top one or two in at least 3 categories.
By Wayne in Utah
January 12, 2009 1:14 PM | Link to this
DC You gotta watch that Random guy, he will be as nice as can be, then he’ll come back later as “Joe Schmoe from Peoria” and slam you like a rassler’
:-)
By N Nine
January 12, 2009 1:15 PM | Link to this
should answer the Peavy saga questions here is TIM’S new post mlbtr: Braves GM Frank Wren was on 790 The Zone yesterday. Wren explained that the Braves have other options besides Derek Lowe, and had several things in play prior to John Smoltz leaving:
There’s other guys out there that we like. I have trade proposals on my desk as we speak that would bring another pitcher to us. There’s other things we can do…The trade proposal that I have on my desk - that was put in place six weeks ago.
So far this winter the Braves added two starters: Javier Vazquez and Kenshin Kawakami (pending a physical).
Other notes: Wren wouldn’t comment on Andruw Jones, and doesn’t see the Braves acquiring Manny Ramirez or Jake Peavy.
By Lew
January 12, 2009 1:17 PM | Link to this
BA-Thanks Dude, I guess I missed the Olsen thing. That makes the Marlins even weaker, thought the Nats still have a long way to go even with him, IMO.
Crispy-Good luck and stay warm.
By 6-4-3
January 12, 2009 1:18 PM | Link to this
MLBTraderumors.com has a link up clarifying that proposed deal Wren has had on his desk for the past six weeks. Wren states that deal would bring back a pitcher, not an outfielder as some here have guessed.
By David O'Brien
January 12, 2009 1:18 PM | Link to this
TennPaul, I don’t mind depressing whatsoever (hey, life’s not a Disney warm-and-fuzzy), long as it’s a good movie. And from all accounts, this one’s terrific. Cant’ wait to see it.
Glad to see my girl Kate Winslet win for two different movies. Damn, she’s fine, and a great actress. Gotta see both of those movies soon. Was going to go see Revolutionary Road last night, but times weren’t right.
By crispy
January 12, 2009 1:18 PM | Link to this
Lew: how many of those 1 run losses came at the expense of the bullpen? wouldnt that be a better indication of potential wins? i think 20 may be too high.
BA: not going that far south. looks like dc metro area. thanks for the heads up though!
By Chop Chop
January 12, 2009 1:19 PM | Link to this
Wayne,
Whenever you refer to the “FO,” I think of The Varsity.
I’ll have a couple of Heavy Weights and an FO.
By DCbrave
January 12, 2009 1:19 PM | Link to this
DC You gotta watch that Random guy, he will be as nice as can be, then he’ll come back later as “Joe Schmoe from Peoria” and slam you like a rassler - Wayne
Thanks for the warning, man. Got to remember that. :-)
By dmack
January 12, 2009 1:20 PM | Link to this
DOB
Any idea of possible trade options that Wren might be considering?
By David O'Brien
January 12, 2009 1:24 PM | Link to this
Is it a bit odd how some folks here actually care what a Mets fan coming to a Braves blog says about the Braves not being a contender even if this or that happens? (Actually, it’s odd that a certain Mets fan would consistently, all year long, come to a Braves blog instead of staying on one of the many Mets blogs, but that’s another story. Guess it says something about this blog and its intelligent and/or entertaining denizens?)
But seriously, if you Braves fans go over to a Mets blog and posts similar opinions about the Mets, they’d run you out of there with insults.
By Renegator
January 12, 2009 1:25 PM | Link to this
Lew,
I like you, brother - but you are being WAY too optimistic. Yes, if the Braves sign Lowe (huge if) then they have done a good job of replacing pitching.
Batting, however, they haven’t addressed. We have to replace 1/2 a year of Tex (compared to last year) plus we know that Chipper and McCann are going to be out at least 20% of the season. Jeff is a total unknown at this point and we have no real starters in CF or LF.
How can you think that this team will even remotely compete? I don’t see how with that offense - they are going to make up the 20+ games they were behind last year. There’s optimistic and then there is realistic.
By BravesFanInRockies
January 12, 2009 1:25 PM | Link to this
Shaun,
Agreed that the Phils and the Mets have to be considered the favorites simply because that’s how they finished last year.
The Mets haven’t addressed the hole in LF and the back end of the rotation but I’d be shocked if they don’t at least re-sign Ollie. The bullpen should be better with K-Rod (though I think he’s going to implode before the contract ends) and Putz, but last year we thought they’d be fine with Heilman and Wagner. You never know. Bullpens can be crap shoots from year to year. Just look at the Phils in 2008 vs. 2007.
However, Lew’s right again, in that with Lowe, the Braves go into the season with two guys who should be a lock for 200 innings and two others (I’d add KK and JJ) who could handle that much work, too.
In 2007, Kotchman’s offensive production was very similar to the 2008 edition of Conor Jackson. Find an upgrade in LF — doesn’t have to be Dunn; it could be a platoon partner for Diaz, such as Edmonds or Abreu — and with Schafer, the OF can produce runs it could not in 2008.
We’re not that far away, folks.
By Reality
January 12, 2009 1:27 PM | Link to this
2009 - Braves will finish with 90 loses or more again. Book it.
Sorry Supes. Saying it won’t make it so. You’re just trying to rile people up.
By David O'Brien
January 12, 2009 1:28 PM | Link to this
Ernesto, Diaz is a smart, level-headed guy who knows what’s up. He told me at the end of the season that he realized he’d probably blown his shot at a full-time 2009 job with his slow start in 2008, but that he was fully confident that he could help the team in a platoon role because he knows he can hit lefties well, regardless.
By Lew
January 12, 2009 1:30 PM | Link to this
Crispy-They were due to the combination I mentioned earlier-no power, overworked bullpen and no starting pitching (you can add Frenchy’s performance and Casey’s too-though they both improved radically in September).
I just think with the addition of that top of rotation pitcher, the return of our main pen pieces and some additional power, we can be a 90+ win team. I really don’t think we were nearly as bad as our record indicated last year. It was very much situational, with the loss of key pitchers (some quite early in the season), overall injuries and a poor season from a couple of players.
Last year was last year and nothing went our way-NOTHING. I just don’t see it happening again-at least not to that extent. If we fix the reasons for the poor play, then we eliminate many of those losses.
By ncscoots
January 12, 2009 1:30 PM | Link to this
Some of the pickers on here might want to bow their head for a moment today. Don Randall, a driving force behind bringing the great Fender designs to the mainstream, passed away.
Though I imagine most here are too young to remember Fenders before the CBS purchase of the company. But, man, those maple necks, sculpted bodies, and pure tone…well, whatever bands you’re listening to these days, they all owe at least a small debt to guys like Don Randall.
By KC
January 12, 2009 1:31 PM | Link to this
Anders:
If the Braves get Lowe AND a big bat, barring a barrage of injuries again, the Braves WILL be right in the thick of the NL East. In fact, if they add Lowe and a big bat, I think the Braves might even be slight favorites in the East.
Keep in mind that the Braves also were also without two of the best relievers in the league (Soriano and Moylan) for nearly the entire year. So if they added Lowe and, let’s say for the sake of argument, J. Dye, for all intents and purposes, they will have added:
Dye, Lowe, Vazquez, Kawakami, R.Soriano, and in all likelihood, Peter Moylan (come Apil or May). They could also wind up adding Tommy Hanson to the rotation this year.
You’ve then added a cleanup hitter, a #1 starter, two #2/3 starters, and two of the best late inning relievers in the league.
That’s a helluva lot for any team to add.
Sorry dude. I know you don’t want to hear it, but If Atlanta gets Lowe AND the bat they’re looking for… the Braves are once again the favorites in the East.
By David O'Brien
January 12, 2009 1:35 PM | Link to this
You heard him, Reality: Book it.
OK, we’ll book it. Thanks. Moving on….
By Jersey Gil
January 12, 2009 1:36 PM | Link to this
DOB You post this weekend about a show you saw with this Big Band playing Elvis songs. If this Show will be available in Feb 16-24?…I be in Atlanta that week for my Grandson Birthday and looking for a good time show i can see, or Any recomendation…..Last time i was in Atlanta was about two year back.
By Poorbrave
January 12, 2009 1:46 PM | Link to this
Who will be the Braves starting L/H pitcher ,only Jo-Jo?
KC- let someone else answer the question,you have to many (if’s).
By Efrim
January 12, 2009 1:46 PM | Link to this
Sorry dude. I know you don’t want to hear it, but If Atlanta gets Lowe AND the bat they’re looking for… the Braves are once again the favorites in the East.
KC, I was waiting for that from you man. I knew it was coming sooner or later, with all of this talk about NL East favorite and what not. While I agree that the Braves will be more legit in the conversation for NL East champs, I don’t think Lowe and Dunn(or whatever available corner OF bat outside of Manny Ramirez) would make them the favorite.
By DAP
January 12, 2009 1:48 PM | Link to this
anders i wrote a long response to your 12:26pm post, but i lost it. basically i said, dont get caught up to much with 2008. the braves rotation is already much better than it was last year, especially after hudson went down. the bullpen will likely have everyone back, and the lineup does figure to have both anderson and blanco in it, like it did last year. in 2009, everyone start off tied.
I think the Braves would do well to close the gap by 10 games with the addition of Lowe and a good left field bat, but that’s not contending.
the braves may already have thoe 10 games just because gonzalez, soriano and moylan should be back, and they have added vazquez and kawakami. but again, we all start at 0-0, so we will see.
By Rico
January 12, 2009 1:50 PM | Link to this
THIS WAS JUST POSTED ON MLB TRADE RUMORS BY FRANK WREN FROM 790 THE ZONE
Braves GM Frank Wren was on 790 The Zone yesterday. Wren explained that the Braves have other options besides Derek Lowe, and had several things in play prior to John Smoltz leaving:
There’s other guys out there that we like. I have trade proposals on my desk as we speak that would bring another pitcher to us. There’s other things we can do…The trade proposal that I have on my desk - that was put in place six weeks ago.
Is this the Jake Peavy trade that’s still a possibility?
By BA
January 12, 2009 1:50 PM | Link to this
No problem, Lew- I can’t BELIEVE you missed such a signifigant move (oops, I forgot that sarcasm gets lost in translation here).
So the Mutts have added two relievers? We’re adding 2 1/2 (Moylan, Soriano, Gonzo for the full year). Boyer and Acosta (and even Bennett) can be much improved after the extensive playing time in ‘08, plus the fact that they’ll be pitching in the 6th/7th instead of late in games. If they bring back Ohman (and I think this is important) that’s a very good ‘pen. Better than NY’s patchwork version.
With Lowe and Vazquez, and Kawakami, Atlanta’s rotation is improved a great deal. Especially if Kawakami is as good a a #3. Jurrgens and Campillo (or Hanson, or Morton) looks a lot better than Santana and a bunch of #4’s. Yeah, Maine is a #4- so is Perez, if they can even pull that off.
DOB, us sadists love to hate the Mutts. Anders is entertaining because he’s a little bit of both (at times a blantant NY homer, other times more realistic).
But he’s dellusional on this one.
By cmac1919
January 12, 2009 1:58 PM | Link to this
I hope said pitcher in the supposed trade proposals isn’t too much of a downgrade from Derek Lowe.
And I fail to understand why some people don’t believe the Braves wouldn’t be at least contenders if they got Derek Lowe and a power-hitting outfielder. Considering last year, people considered us WS CONTENDERS just because we got Tom Glavine and Mark Kotsay….
By TennesseePaul
January 12, 2009 1:59 PM | Link to this
DOB: I like depressing movies in moderation. Too many, and life just stinks. But some depressing movies are a bit too much for me. Leaving Las Vegas is one of those. I recognize the awarded qualities of that film, but have zero desire to ever watch it again. Just tooo depressing. The Wrestler isn’t that depressing. It’s sad. But not to the point of suicide sad. Very strong film. The cinematography is incredible.
By Lee in S GA
January 12, 2009 2:01 PM | Link to this
the bullpen will likely have everyone back, and the lineup does figure to have both anderson and blanco in it
I would be surprise if they both are even on the 25 man roster. That is if another outfielder is added and Diaz is still with the team. That would basically be 5 outfielders (including Frenchy) and you still have Infante who could play the corner positions if necessary from time to time. No, for the Braves to improve one of these two must be the odd man out and a good power hitting outfielder has to come.
By Original Jon
January 12, 2009 2:01 PM | Link to this
Rico A little slow on the uptake are we?
By Original Jon
January 12, 2009 2:02 PM | Link to this
DAMNIT PEOPLE, ITS JURRJENS, NOT JURRGENS
By ô¿ô
January 12, 2009 2:03 PM | Link to this
the question asked to Wren was “doesnt this put you in position to pay more for Derek Lowe” - obviousy Wren is going to say no and that there are other options out there besides the free agents.
Rico no wren says in the interview that a peavy trade is not going to happen and that there are factors that wouldnt allow it to happen - my guess is Peavy not accepting a trade to ATL
By Original Jon
January 12, 2009 2:04 PM | Link to this
Also Rico, if you had read the rest of that, you would have seen this Other notes: Wren wouldn’t comment on Andruw Jones, and doesn’t see the Braves acquiring Manny Ramirez or Jake Peavy.
So no, its not the Jake Peavy possibility
By David O'Brien
January 12, 2009 2:05 PM | Link to this
Jersey Gil, Geier’s twice-a-year Kingsized shows are around Elvis’ birthday (Jan. 8) and his death day (Aug. 16). Sorry about that.
But hey, here’s a bit of The Man himself — and yes, Geier and his Kingsized Orchestra do a terrific cover of this all-time classic:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7OSz4uK7yQ&feature=related
By crispy
January 12, 2009 2:05 PM | Link to this
i guess i am just looking for a more solid team to justify buying mlb from the cable co.
By Supes
January 12, 2009 2:05 PM | Link to this
DOB and Reality
I’ll be here all season long and I will man up and admit that I’m wrong if this 2009 Braves team doesn’t lose 90 games (like I think they will). However, if they do, just remember who said it 1st.
Anyways, I’m not trying to “rile people up”, just trying to present the other side of the story since so many here are drinking the kool-aid that the Braves have a shot to contend for the NL East title in 2009.
Makes me wonder if that group is on Frank Wren’s payroll or getting a suite at the Ted (for their troubles).
For once I agree with Anders that the Mets and Phillies will be the 2 teams to battle it out for the NL East and the Braves don’t match up with those clubs right now.
As far as this “magical trade” that Wren has on the table, unless it brings back one of the following starters…Matt Cain, Roy Oswalt, Zach Greinke or Roy Halladay I don’t think it’ll really matters.
Trading Chipper Jones to Texas for Michael Young is about the craziest thing I’ve ever read on a DOB blog, and I’ve seen my fair share of crazy the past 3 years.
By David O'Brien
January 12, 2009 2:08 PM | Link to this
Henderson and Rice are in (no surprise there). Shame that The Hawk is not, although he did climb to 67 percent, inching closer to election.
By Rufio
January 12, 2009 2:09 PM | Link to this
I also heard Frank Wren’s interview on 790 the zone this morning. While i definitely think the mysterious “trade on his desk” is for a pitcher, i can tell you for a fact that its not for Peavy. He was asked in that interview about Peavy and said pretty definitively that Peavy is no longer an option.
But I think the trade is probably a step down from a derek lowe and therefor only a last option kind of thing.
But still, knowing Frank’s affinity for bloggers and radio listeners, how dare he throw out a little nugget like that.
But maybe this is just FW trying to play the Scott Boras game. Saying we have other options and if we get Lowe great, if not, we’ll move on, but we’re not overpaying, so stop trying to drive up the price.
By Calvin
January 12, 2009 2:10 PM | Link to this
Is this the Jake Peavy trade that’s still a possibility?Rico
Did you even bother to read the entire story or just the part where Wren is talking about trades? Had you continue to read the story, you would notice that Wren said Jake Peavy is not an option.
By KC
January 12, 2009 2:11 PM | Link to this
Efrim: And I knew as soon as I said it that someone would immediately respond with some sort of a here you go again, KC post. Neither of us disappointed the other, I see. =)
To be very clear (because there are those here - not you - who like to misquote others)… the Braves are NOT the favorites to win the NL East.
The scenario I brought up which thought would make them favorites would be the addition of Lowe and J. Dye (or someone of equal ability).
Again, in that scenario, the Braves would then essentially be adding: Dye, Lowe, Kawakami, Vazquez, Soriano, and Moylan (in April or May). That’s one HELL of an upgrade my man. An unbelievable improvement.
I don’t think anywhere near as highly of Dunn as I do Dye, but Dunn would be better than not picking up any outfield power this winter.
By jonatuga
January 12, 2009 2:13 PM | Link to this
DOB,
Guess I’ve been reading this blog too much bc I watched a movie on demand last night and thought it was your type of movie…
It is called “The Assasination of Richard Nixon” with Sean Penn starring in it. If you haven’t seen it, you should check it out. Great acting performance.
Keep up the good work!
By David O'Brien
January 12, 2009 2:13 PM | Link to this
But some depressing movies are a bit too much for me. Leaving Las Vegas is one of those.TennPaul
Me, I loved that movie. One of Cage’s very best, before he went the blockbuster/schlock route.
By rammerjammer
January 12, 2009 2:15 PM | Link to this
A trade proposal six weeks ago? Must be another innings-eater (love that term) because the only top-tier guy in our sights at that time was Burnett, a free agent.
Could be a fallback if Lowe falls through, although we’ve got a good track record of getting the guys we want.
Yes, that was sarcasm.
By KC
January 12, 2009 2:16 PM | Link to this
BA: Well, of course, we haven’t signed Lowe yet… but yes, if we get him, the rotation is in good shape. Probably better 1-5 than either the Mets’ or Phillies’ rotations.
And I agree wholeheartedly about the bullpen. If healthy, Gonzalez, Soriano, and Moylan (come April or May) will make this pen a BEAST. And Boyer and Acosta will have an opportunity to take a step forward.
Boyer was overworked last year, and both Boyer and Acosta were thrust into 8th/9th inning roles they probably weren’t ready for. Less pressure and a less of a workload should help them both.
Again, if healthy, the Braves pen is probably the best in the NL. Particularly once Moylan returns.
By Don't Follow The Herd
January 12, 2009 2:17 PM | Link to this
The potential trade Wren is talking about can’t be Peavy if it’s only been in place for 6 weeks.
But isn’t it interesting that there is plan and the guy is working it. I would imagine the trade target would be another mid rotation guy as Wren started at the top of his wish list and is working his way down.
In the Chass interview he mentioned that Smoltz, Hudson, Hampton, and Glavine only made 53 of an expected 132 starts. Now that is an amazing stat.
I think 132 expected starts may be a bit high given Hampton and Smoltz’s injury history, but even if it was like 100 starts, it’s clear why the Braves lost 90 games last season.
It sounds like to me that Glavine will be back, but not until mid Spring. Chass was right that the longer he waits the better the contract offer he’ll get. That was true for Smoltz too, but he wanted to leave more than he wanted to stay.
If Moyer can still be effective at 46,the younger Glavine can be as well.
By Reality
January 12, 2009 2:18 PM | Link to this
Jim Rice making it into the Hall of Fame is a crock. The Red Sox propaganda campaign of “most feared” has worked.
By DAP
January 12, 2009 2:19 PM | Link to this
lee in s ga the bullpen will likely have everyone back, and the lineup does figure to have both anderson and blanco in it
i meant to say doesnt. sorry.
By mbatl
January 12, 2009 2:19 PM | Link to this
Must be tough for any GM … when every word uttered is picked apart by blogs and radio talk shows.
Anyway, just listened to the Wren interview in 790. The reference to a 6-week-old trade offer just sounded like taking cover to me, when he was asked if losing Smoltz gave Boras the upper hand in negotiations: “does Boras have you by the balls now that you lost Smoltz? (paraphrasing the question, of course).
From his response, I didn’t sense that a trade was imminent; and didn’t even feel that Wren’s reference to a pending trade was aimed at Boras; just that Wren was trying to put a good spin on the answer to the question. He could just as well have responded to the question by saying, “No, I don’t think so.” He didn’t need to drudge up mysterious, 6-week-old trade discussions.
I think Wren is doing a good job of trying to rebuild a roster that (3 months ago) had huge holes in it. But he’s not real smooth off the cuff, comes across as defensive (including defending the Smoltz situation). Maybe a good offseason will cure him of that.
By David O'Brien
January 12, 2009 2:21 PM | Link to this
For once I agree with Anders that the Mets and Phillies will be the 2 teams to battle it out for the NL East and the Braves don�t match up with those clubs right now.Supes
Not exactly going out on a limb there, are you? I think most here would agree with that assessment. I know I would.
But that doesn’t mean people are wrong to suggest the Braves might contend if they get Lowe and another big bat. I can certainly see that possibility, if they get those two components and a few reasonable things happen (like avoiding a rash of major injuries)….
Jersey Gil, if you’re staying downtown, you can go see Geier do his Tiki-bar thing at Trader Vic’s in the downtown Hilton every Thursday.
Here’s a link to Kingsized and its schedule, and there’s a also a link to the Dames Aflame burlesque troop on same site.
http://www.kingsized.biz/
By Frank
January 12, 2009 2:22 PM | Link to this
Well…as just reported on ESPN….Rickey Henderson and Jim Rice are this years HOF inductees.
Rickey, I knew would be a shoe-in and I’m quite glad to see Rice make it in as well in his last year of elgibility(sp).
Now next year, I’d sure as heck like to see Andre Dawson make it into the HOF. He’s another that deserves to be in the HOF, IMHO.
By Joe Blow from Peoreo
January 12, 2009 2:23 PM | Link to this
DCbrave, Wayne in Utah —
Ah, c’mon, youse guys — I already told you that I don’t do that no more!
By Lee in S GA
January 12, 2009 2:24 PM | Link to this
i meant to say doesnt. sorry.
DAP
Kind of figured you did … been reading this blog too long I guess. LOL
By Cook
January 12, 2009 2:24 PM | Link to this
Oops, I guess I missed FW saying the proposal was for a pitcher in the interview this morning, sorry about that.
I can tell you 100% he said the Peavy deal isn’t going to happen.
By Jersey Gil
January 12, 2009 2:25 PM | Link to this
Thanks DOB…..Follow what Mr Wren said about the Trade six week ago, i did a reseach and found that back in December was a rumor that The Braves has interest on Maholm/Ian Snell from the Pirates.
By DCbrave
January 12, 2009 2:25 PM | Link to this
Hi DOB:
This article written by a Japanese journalist from “Daily Yomiuri” (http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/dy/sports/20090110TDY18311.htm) referred to Kawakami as “a two-time Sawamura Award winner.” I did not know he won it twice.
By kirkinga
January 12, 2009 2:27 PM | Link to this
KC, I think you’re right those additions would make them contenders for the division.
Recent history tells us that Philly isn’t going to repeat as WS champs at least so look for opportunity there. The loss of Romero is huge, especially within the division. Ibanez is an upgrade from Burrell, especially in the clutch, so their lineup will still be potent. So it comes down to pitching.
I think Wren is going to get someone who will take the ball 30-35 times next season and hopefully we’ll find out if it’s Lowe or someone else this week or next.
The Braves are going to surprise people. They’ll be playing with a definite chip on their shoulders and out to prove that last season was a fluke.
By TennesseePaul
January 12, 2009 2:27 PM | Link to this
DOB: Not saying it wasn’t good. Just, for me, it’s a one timer. I enjoy a drink or ten every now and again, and when I watched that movie, I couldn’t tip one back for weeks. I had a hard time drinking water after that movie. It ruined beverage consumption for me for a while there. I’ll never get that time back either.
By Steve McP
January 12, 2009 2:28 PM | Link to this
Just looked at the HOF ballot, and noticed that 28 people did not think that Henderson was HOF material. Did they only start watching baseball 4 years ago and not look at any previous news and stats?
It takes me back to the blog discussion about whether Mad Dog will get 100% or not.
By Daybed Wagmoe
January 12, 2009 2:28 PM | Link to this
Original Jon — if you’re gonna get on people for spelling, then you should also spell correctly. It’s “dammit,” not “damnit.” 2 Ms, not “mn.”
By kirkinga
January 12, 2009 2:33 PM | Link to this
He could just as well have responded to the question by saying, “No, I don’t think so.” He didn’t need to drudge up mysterious, 6-week-old trade discussions.
Why wouldn’t he drudge it up? He already told us he had trade proposals on the table coming out of the Winter Meetings. Why would he go back on that now?
I think Wren is both an optimist and very confident. I think people believe he is cowed by the Smoltz departure and if you listen to the tone of his interview, he comes across as sincere and determined.
I respect the man. He could just as easily stop trying and just go with what he’s got. But he’s still in there trying to make the biggest score he can without hurting the future.
By Fan-coeur (Frenchy has heart)
January 12, 2009 2:33 PM | Link to this
I don’t get it. Some ppl are saying Kawakami is fit as a #3 starter, others saying he’s nothing more than a #5. Then someone says he’s got a 90mph fastball, and others saying he’s got a 92mph.
Which ones are correct?
By Renegator
January 12, 2009 2:33 PM | Link to this
KC
You are smoking crack if you think the acquisition of Lowe and Dye would make the Braves the favorites in the NL East.
By Wayne in Utah
January 12, 2009 2:34 PM | Link to this
Actually, Supes, I am not on FW’s (that’s what we call him on the inner circle) payroll, but we are thinking about “doing lunch” later this week, so I can review a trade or two that he has on the table.
I don’t have the time now, but I would love to hear your reasoning as to why the improvements in the pitching staff will not at least equate to a few more wins.
Vazquez is certainly better than either Morton, Reyes, or Carlyle was last year. Kamakawi is probably at a minimum a bit better than those guys. JJ should be at least as good. If Lowe signs, (or if we get a decent trade, lets say that is a wash with Huddy. Now, don’t you think that adding Hanson, Morton and Reyes (remember, we replaced those guys) to Campillo to compete for the #5 makes the staff considerably less suspect?
And the pen, well it could collapse, but then again so could the Red Sox or the Phillies pens collapse. If it doesn’t, it will be solid, if not exceptional.
Now, do you doubt we will add a bat to at least make up part of the difference between Teixeira and Blanco (Kotchman and new outfielder)?
We might lose 100 games, but I just don’t see it. We might not be above .500 if things don’t fall right, but I think we have a fair shot at staying close most of the year.
Am I am optimist, you bet your 401K on it!
By Reality
January 12, 2009 2:35 PM | Link to this
If the trade for that pitcher Wren talked about has been on his desk for sic weeks, it is safe to assume it is not an ace nor a really good trade for the Braves. Lowe is likely the primary pitching focus right now.
By Tomas
January 12, 2009 2:36 PM | Link to this
Just heard the interview they made to Wren. I think he is doing a better job by keeping all quiet. It’s frusturating for us fans, but it’s a smart bussiness decision. I specially liked the part when they asked him about Kawakami: “The kid you sign this weekend from Japan, what can you tell us about him?”, Wren answered “we haven’t signed him yet, but he has won 3 gold gloves in Japan, has a cy young award, and should had won it two years ago, he finished second. He is a competitive guy, who shows emotion on the mound.” Then they asked him, “But he is in Atlanta taking a physical?”, he answered “yes”.
The Furcal incident has really made him carefull.
By Original Jon
January 12, 2009 2:37 PM | Link to this
Actually Daybed, its Damn it. The word is spelled Damn, not Damm. Face.
By DCbrave
January 12, 2009 2:37 PM | Link to this
DCbrave, Wayne in Utah — Ah, c’mon, youse guys — I already told you that I don’t do that no more! -Joe Blow from Peoreo
I see, but you may do it in Random once in a while, so we still need to watch out.
Oh, I feel so good today and hopefully the Braves improve substantially and I may have a chance to issue a Certificate of Revival for them in the future.
By Lee in S GA
January 12, 2009 2:41 PM | Link to this
It ruined beverage consumption for me for a while there. I’ll never get that time back either. 10Paul
I see where you are coming from on this. It did the same for me also. The movie was good but my heart or maybe it’s my liver cannot endure it again. I always thought “AA” should show it on DVD for their classes.
By KC
January 12, 2009 2:42 PM | Link to this
kirkinga: Yeah, I think the addition of Lowe, even without another bat, make the Braves contenders because (when added to Jurrjens, Kawakami, Vazquez, and possibly Glavine or Hanson and a GREAT bullpen) Lowe gives the Braves one of the best pitching staffs in the league. Maybe even THE best.
But the Braves would have to sign Lowe AND upgrade in the offense in a significant way before anyone would call them favorites.
I’m hopeful that the Braves will sign Lowe and do something over the winter to strengthen the offense. Even if it’s Dunn (who is not anyone’s first choice, but would be helpful), or possibly even someone like Griffey…
A big addition to this lineup, or some half-way noteworthy addition to the lineup plus a Frenchy bounceback… would give the Braves a very nice offense, IMO.
By ncscoots
January 12, 2009 2:42 PM | Link to this
Henderson and Rice are in (no surprise there).
And when Rickey made it in, did he go “Rickey OUT!”?
By BravesFanInRockies
January 12, 2009 2:43 PM | Link to this
kirkinga,
Good point about the Phils’ pan. Romero was huge for them, and Lidge ain’t going to be perfect forever. Madson may have to work a lot more.
Hamels was money last year, but will the extra 72 innings he pitched in 2008 vs. 2007 take a toll? And I’m still seeing just three starters there — Hamels, Myers and Moyer. Blanton’s mediocre. After that, there’s a lot of hope.
By DCbrave
January 12, 2009 2:44 PM | Link to this
KC, You are smoking crack if you think the acquisition of Lowe and Dye would make the Braves the favorites in the NL East - Renegator
Hah, Renegator. You didn’t know KC has been smoking it for days!
Sorry, KC, couldn’t resist.
By David O'Brien
January 12, 2009 2:45 PM | Link to this
DCbrave, he won it once. I think that same story (or another one this weekend) had his career record at 112-82. It’s not. It’s 112-72.
He should’ve, according to Japanese reporters, won the best-pitcher award twice, but only won it once.
By KC
January 12, 2009 2:47 PM | Link to this
By the way… Saw Grand Torino last night.
Eastwood is a god.
By Tomas
January 12, 2009 2:48 PM | Link to this
Andre Dawson was not elected. Dale Murphy was not elected, and I seriously doubt he’ll make it to the HOF, how many years does he have left?
By Frank
January 12, 2009 2:50 PM | Link to this
As for the one blogger that mentioned Leaving Las Vegas being a depressing movie…
any movie with Elisabeth Shue is NEVER depressing (Lol) especially with the one scene when Cage and her character first meet on the street, with her in the black leather skirt. Best scene in the whole movie.
By eric in albany
January 12, 2009 2:50 PM | Link to this
DOB Whats The Word On Will Ohman. Last I Heard He Was Keeping Us In Mind. Are Any Clubs Active In Trying To Sign Him?
Will We Have The Loot To Make A Push For Him If Lowe Signs Or We Trade For Someone?
By Billy Walsh
January 12, 2009 2:51 PM | Link to this
Reality and Keith Law
Rice? Not a HOF? Don’t give me the worthless crap that he was a product of Fenway and his defense was not great. Look at his numbers in the pre steroid era. I cant believe that Tim Raines only got 22 percent of the required votes. He is the 2nd best lead off hitter of all time. Go back and look at his stats. If he stayed healthy toward the end of his career..he would be a first ballot HOF.
By Daybed Wagmoe
January 12, 2009 2:53 PM | Link to this
Original Jon — not when the two are joined together, as you typed it. When it’s on it’s own, it is “damn.” As a compound word, it’s “dammit.”
“Face”? Please.
By mbatl
January 12, 2009 2:54 PM | Link to this
Why wouldn’t he drudge it up? He already told us he had trade proposals on the table coming out of the Winter Meetings. Why would he go back on that now?
kirknga, because it raises expectations.
I agree with you that Wren is doing a good job (said so in my post). And I agree that he’s sincere and dedicated.
I just think he’d do better, from a PR standpoint, to minimize the maybe’s. No reason to get quoted on MLBTR (the starting point for a lot of readers) about a trade unless it’s a pretty solid possiblity. (and maybe it is, but I didn’t get that sense from the interview)
All that does is raises expectations, and if they’re not met, he’s considered to have failed.
By Jersey Gil
January 12, 2009 2:55 PM | Link to this
Hey guys i just heard in the radio here in Phillis a fan saying that Big Country Star are Calling Derek Lowe to sign with the Braves, special Travis Tritt, he has a concern in Florida Strawberry Festival and invite Derek for that concert on 3/3/09. It this is True at all?
By Richie
January 12, 2009 2:57 PM | Link to this
Did Anyone hear Wren on 790 today? He says he has a trade proposal for a pitcher on his desk that he got 6 weeks ago.
By crispy
January 12, 2009 2:58 PM | Link to this
wayne in utah:
i’ll take that bet since my 401k went to the crapper
By Wayne in Utah
January 12, 2009 2:58 PM | Link to this
Gil Good research on the Maholm/Snell thought.
SteveMcP I wouldn’t expect to see any 100% ers again. To be honest, if I were voting, I would withhold my vote for 1 year, due solely to the fact that Rickey was such an arrogant azz.
We talk about laying down on a team, Rickey did that during spring training with the A’s during his heyday, because somebody else got a better contract over the winter than his. Claimed he would come up with some sort of injury that would keep him out of the lineup for who knows how long. Came right out and said it. (I was living in the Bay Area then, so I remember if well)
That’s not to say he didn’t deserve it, just not to be called unanimous. I half way expect him to say something about it, but maybe he has grown out of that by now.
Rememeber when he broke the stolen base record? Lou Brock was there to congratulate him, and he stand there with that bag held high over his head, and said “I am the greatest”.
By David O'Brien
January 12, 2009 3:01 PM | Link to this
Braves signed Infante to a two-year extension, just announced it.
By DCbrave
January 12, 2009 3:02 PM | Link to this
DCbrave, he won it once. I think that same story (or another one this weekend) had his career record at 112-82. It’s not. It’s 112-72. He should’ve, according to Japanese reporters, won the best-pitcher award twice, but only won it once. -David O’Brien
I see. Maybe they all got the wrong info from this Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenshin_Kawakami) which says he won his second in 2006, or vice versa. Actually Kazumi Saito won it in 2006.
2006 and led the Dragons to the Central League title again, winning Game 1 of the Japan Series against the Hokkaido Nippon Ham Fighters and won his second Sawamura Award.
By David O'Brien
January 12, 2009 3:02 PM | Link to this
Two-year deal with a club option. No terms yet. We’ll get those soon enough.
By JPHUNT
January 12, 2009 3:03 PM | Link to this
DOB, why don’t we just bite the bullet and sign Chuck Norris. I know he would probably be expensive but according to his agent he plays every position. That would solve all our problems and put a few extra in the stands. Plus I hear he doesn’t use a bat but a roundhouse kick instead, sounds like a crowd pleaser.
By rammerjammer
January 12, 2009 3:07 PM | Link to this
I don’t know about the rest of you, but I’m getting into this Original Jon-Daybed Wagmoe grammar battle.
Good, gritty stuff.
By nfieldr
January 12, 2009 3:08 PM | Link to this
Personally, I just can’t understand how people can push for HOF for The Hawk and the same people ignore Murphy. Ok, I know I’m a “homer”, and I acknowledge that Dawson was a great player, but I really don’t think Murph’s numbers are that inferior to Dawson’s. And the 2nd MVP should count for something,right? Oh well, I gotta resign myself to the fact that Murph mostly played on bad ballclubs and will never garner the national respect that I feel he is due.
By TennesseePaul
January 12, 2009 3:09 PM | Link to this
Lee: I always thought “AA” should show it on DVD for their classes.
Yes. Perhaps this could be step zero of the 12 step process. By the end of the course the participants should be able to recognize that the process is really 13 steps…
By Reality
January 12, 2009 3:09 PM | Link to this
Braves signed Infante to a two-year extension, just announced it.
Meh. I hope they do the same for Mike Gonzalez. He is the arbitration guy I’d like to see them lock up.
By ncscoots
January 12, 2009 3:09 PM | Link to this
…gives the Braves one of the best pitching staffs in the league. Maybe even THE best.
KC, man, dial it back a little, huh, LOL? A second-tier “ace”, a second-year phenom, a 33-year-old without a single inning in MLB, a definition-of-average middle guy, and one from a group without 100 starts among ‘em? Somehow, I don’t think that five strikes fear into the hearts, if you get my drift.
The bullpen has a chance to be very good, but you never can tell about bullpens, either way; and certainly the rotation is potentially better than last year (pretty low bar, there). But mentioning this staff and “best”, in almost any context, is optimistic in the extreme.
That doesn’t mean I don’t think that they’ll be competitive. But a superior staff? Nobody could play that unconscious for six months. :-)
By BA
January 12, 2009 3:10 PM | Link to this
I don’t know what you guys are talking about-the shower scene in Leaving Las Vegas was quite uplifting.
By Efrim
January 12, 2009 3:12 PM | Link to this
I don’t get it. Some ppl are saying Kawakami is fit as a #3 starter, others saying he’s nothing more than a #5. Then someone says he’s got a 90mph fastball, and others saying he’s got a 92mph.
Just call him a #4 starter if you’re finding 50% of the reports calling him a #3 and the other half calling him a #5.
By KC
January 12, 2009 3:12 PM | Link to this
Renegator: You are correct sir. I would be smoking crack to suggest that the Additions of Lowe and Dye would make the Braves favorites in the NL East.
But that’s not what I’m saying.
I’m saying that the additions of Lowe, Dye, Vazquez, Kawakami, Soriano, and Moylan… would make the Braves slight favorites in the NL East.
By Original Jon
January 12, 2009 3:12 PM | Link to this
Daybed
dam·mit (dām’ĭt) Pronunciation Key interj. Used to express anger, irritation, contempt, or disappointment.
[Alteration of damn it.]
So it could go either way.
Ok, so lets get technical on me missing the space bar, its still not as bad as spelling someones name wrong.
By BravesFanInRockies
January 12, 2009 3:13 PM | Link to this
Billy Walsh,
Agreed on Rice and Raines. Both deserve to be in the hall.
Aside from Rickey, Raines was the most disruptive leadoff man of his era. Hit 180 HR, scored nearly 1600 runs and drove in almost 1000. Dude was also successful 85 percent of the time stealing — compare that to Rickey, who was caught stealing more than 40 percent of the time during his career.
Playing in Montreal and for the ChiSox shouldn’t matter, but apparently they do.
By DCbrave
January 12, 2009 3:13 PM | Link to this
In searching Japanese Sawamura Award winners, I noticed that the 2008 winner, Hisashi Iwakuma (27), was 21-4 with an ERA of 1.87 last year. Wow! That sounds like a Maddux in his prime.
By ernesto
January 12, 2009 3:14 PM | Link to this
eric in albany - props on the all Initial Caps Post, that must have taken some work.
Well Done.
By Lee in S GA
January 12, 2009 3:15 PM | Link to this
Good news about Infante. he certainly brings a lot of versatility to the Braves and not that bad of a hitter either.
By kirkinga
January 12, 2009 3:16 PM | Link to this
mbatl, I wasn’t saying you were bashing Wren. I was just saying that his statement on the radio matched what he said coming out of the meetings and that I thought he came across as confident rather than in c.y.a. mode.
That’s why I think you’re right about raising expectations. That is what he was doing. And rightfully so.
He’s not going to listen to people on talk radio and us here on the blog, he’s not going to surrender.
That’s important as is his continued pursuit of talent because of the message and mindset I think it’s suggests to his players.
With the exception of Yunel and Chipper concerning Smoltz, no one is talking about the effects of the offseason on any of the players. I think having their GM out there fighting to improve the team despite bad press and outrage, despite the Furcal renege, and the failed attempts for Peavy and Burnett, he’s pushing on.
This organization knows how to win and it starts from the top. So was the case with JS, and now with Wren. I think people have totally underestimated the talent on this team and focused only on the weak areas. Wren isn’t making that mistake and I bet his players are noticing.
By crispy
January 12, 2009 3:16 PM | Link to this
how much can be expected out of kawakamee given his short season last year?
By N8
January 12, 2009 3:17 PM | Link to this
DOB
“But seriously, if you Braves fans go over to a Mets blog and posts similar opinions about the Mets, they’d run you out of there with insults.”
I often like to read between the lines.
So correct me if I’m wrong. But I do believe that DOB just gave us all permission (in fact he is daring us), to insult the Mets trolls to the point of the leaving.
Fair enough. Count me in.
By TennesseePaul
January 12, 2009 3:18 PM | Link to this
One of Cage’s very best, before he went the blockbuster/schlock route.
He really did sell-out there didn’t he? Though he still mixes in a few good ones amongst the blockbuster types. I enjoyed The Weatherman. That was a solid flick.
By McPoyle
January 12, 2009 3:19 PM | Link to this
DOB, if you had to speculate… which in this case you would… when do you think Lowe would sign, at the earliest. Be it with Atlanta or elsewhere.
The Braves, courting a Boras client around, man we must really be getting desperate. But I like Lowe a lot, not necessarily as a #1, but he’s capable. I’d love to see us with 3 guys who could toss 200+ innings this year, it would save Blain Boyer some innings.
By BravesFanInRockies
January 12, 2009 3:19 PM | Link to this
KC,
I’m kinda with ncscoots here. Wait until we sign Lowe or acquire whoever it is Wren’s after.
Then we can ridicule you for overhyping the staff!
By Efrim
January 12, 2009 3:20 PM | Link to this
Meh. I hope they do the same for Mike Gonzalez. He is the arbitration guy I’d like to see them lock up.
I’d actually like to see them hold off on Gonzalez. Let’s see how he does this year before giving him big money. He is coming off major elbow surgery.
By David O'Brien
January 12, 2009 3:21 PM | Link to this
On another subject, just curious if our denizen who last year said Hansbrough has to be considered for greatest player in ACC history (gulp) still believes that.
And since a few notable ESPN personalities say he’s still their favorite for Player of the Year — Jay Bilas said he was because “he delivers” or something to that effect (KU fans might disagree after last year’s Final Four semis) — I was wondering how they’d justify voting him Player of the Year over OU’s Blake Griffin if voting were today:
Griffin’s averaging 22.5 points, 14.1 rebounds, 1.6 steals and 1.4 blocks and shooting 65 percent from the floor for a top-10 or top-5 team.
Hansbrough’s averaging 22.4 points, 7.5 rebounds, 1.0 steals and 0.4 blocks and shooting 54 percent from the floor for a team that’s dropped its first two conference games.
I know Carolina will be there in the end, and should certainly make the Final Four (though I don’t believe they’ll win the title; they play such inconsistent defense), but seriously, Griffin’s carrying his team, and it’s a very good team, not a borderline-ranked team ala K-State last year, when that was held against Michael Beasley in Player of the Year voting.
By KC
January 12, 2009 3:22 PM | Link to this
ncscoots: Not saying those 5 would “strike fear” in competition. Just saying that 1-5 (if Lowe signs), the Braves rotation would be very solid. I think the back end of the Braves rotation would be stronger than the Mets or Phillies, which IMO, makes up for the slight edge the Mets (and maybe the Phillies) would have on the top end.
My feeling is that Lowe’s signing would give the Braves as good a rotation as there is in the East. But that’s as much a testament to the fact that all NL East rotations are flawed as it is to the strength of a Lowe/Jurrjens/Vazquez/Kawakami/Hanson or Glavine rotation.
By jbutler
January 12, 2009 3:23 PM | Link to this
Any word on what Franceour is doing to improve off his well-documented fallout last year? Just curious…
By Anders
January 12, 2009 3:23 PM | Link to this
DOB
Where did that 1:24 post come from? Especially:
But seriously, if you Braves fans go over to a Mets blog and posts similar opinions about the Mets, they’d run you out of there with insults.
Apparently you have no issue with that type of behavior as you’ve never called off the dogs when I’ve been attacked in the past and as a matter of fact you generally fan the flames (See you quote above for proof).
If you have something constructive to add to the discussion feel free to. But to come in and drop that note is of no help to anyone. Read some of the posts back and forth. Both sides are actually being civil to each other. Fans disagree, that’s what they do. But I think there’s enough respect on both sides at this point that we can have these discussions.
I don’t name call, do the south/north thing (see above again), get politically involved or use abusive language. I’m not sure what more I can do?
I will be sarcastic, preen from time to time and yes take pleasure in a certain teams failures - but I certainly haven’t cornered the market on these things as far as this blog is concerned.
As for the denizens here, yes there are a lot of folks on here that know a lot about baseball that I’ve learned from. Efrim, Lew, KC and Shaun to name a few. I’ve learned a lot on here (especially about the minors). I’m not interested in going to a Mets blog where everyone has generally the same opinion - just my style. I’ve tried to be civil with you and have even tried humor. Apparently to no avail. However, I will continue to come here in spite of that. I’m not saying you have to understand it, much like I don’t understand your infatuation with music and barbeque, but I don’t think it’s impossible to accept it.
Now if it’s OK with you I’d like to get back to discussing baseball with those who are interested in having a dialogue with me.
By joe
January 12, 2009 3:24 PM | Link to this
wren needs to do the deal, if he really has one in place!!!!!!!!!!! dont know whether to believe him or not
By kirkinga
January 12, 2009 3:24 PM | Link to this
Excellent move extending Infante!
I hope the naysayers aren’t going to dump on this move too.
Very interesting that they got this done and Ohman is still out there.
By Daybed Wagmoe
January 12, 2009 3:25 PM | Link to this
rammerjammer — good to know that people are enjoying the all-out, no-holds-barred, last-man-standing death match that is our grammar argument.
Original Jon — well, no, it can’t quite go either way. One has a space, creating two words, while the other is one word. It could be “dammit” or it could be “damn it,” not “damm it” or “damnit,” the second of which you used. Technically, those last two are incorrect.
I just thought it was ironic that while you were getting on others about spelling incorrectly, you were doing the same. But you are right, misspelling that isn’t as bad as misspelling the name of one of the players on the team.
By eric in albany
January 12, 2009 3:25 PM | Link to this
ernesto Thanks Man It’s A Habit Not Sure If Its A Good Or Bad One!
By Jersey Gil
January 12, 2009 3:27 PM | Link to this
McPoyle My Opinion doesn’t count…but i think the Braves has more than 75% to Sign Lowe, I Think the Phillis are Out with the Problem they have with 9 Player on Arbitration, there aren’t ready to make any offer util the payroll is set up.
By BravoMan
January 12, 2009 3:30 PM | Link to this
I find it interesting Wren mentioned that trade he had on his desk on hold in the interview today. I don’t doubt the existance of this trade but could he have mentioned it to show Boras that we have other options other than Lowe? Maybe not, just a thought. Good call on resigning Infante. He’s one heck of a bench player, and he can play almost every postion. I can wait to we unveil Kawakami. He’s gonna be a great addition to the club. Hopefully we’ll know the Braves offer to Lowe today and I hope it’s a 4 year deal.
By DAP
January 12, 2009 3:31 PM | Link to this
Ok, so lets get technical on me missing the space bar, its still not as bad as spelling someones name wrong.
both are silly reasons to blog.
By David O'Brien
January 12, 2009 3:31 PM | Link to this
If you have something constructive to add to the discussion feel free to. Anders
Gee, thanks. Might take you up on that sometime.
By Mark
January 12, 2009 3:32 PM | Link to this
DOB,
Don’t you believe that Jurrjens and Campillo might have a step back from last year? Everyone now has more video to study them. I just dont expect to see them return to the level of effectiveness as last year, however I do expect Jurrjens not to tire out down the home strech.
By Tony C.
January 12, 2009 3:37 PM | Link to this
Why on earth would you pursue Dunn over Abreu? We’ve already got a lineup full of guys who can crush the ball if they hit it-why not get a guy who gets on base because that’s his job????
Just a thought.
Oh and if you don’t think Andre Dawson deserves to be in the HOF, you never saw the guy play-almost always the best player on the field when he was in his prime (also, Dawson going in paves the way for Murphy).
By pat
January 12, 2009 3:38 PM | Link to this
The good news is that the Gwinnett Braves will be better than the Atlanta Braves…I’ll be attending those games far more often…
I’s rather sign Smoltz and he not make a single pitch, then sigh Andruw and he take a single at bat. .152 hitters are not going to solve our problems.
Oh yeah, I don’t know if anybody’s mentioned it, but fire Wren….Send him back to Baltimore where the losers belong and get us a winning team!
By David O'Brien
January 12, 2009 3:39 PM | Link to this
Kawakami press conference tomorrow afternoon, tentatively around 3:30 p.m. is what I’m hearing.
By McPoyle
January 12, 2009 3:39 PM | Link to this
ouch, that’s not good for our future tallent.
When it comes to the Hansbrough argument, i’m inclined to choose Blake Griffin as POY over him because Hanny is always surrounded by so much more tallent. Griffin is just a beast and will be at the next level more so than Hansbrough. I know that has no bearing on the debate at hand, but still, it factors into my opinion.
Let’s not forget the forgotten, Luuuuke Harongody out of Notre Dame. Speaking of beasts… kid avg 24 and 12 in the POWERHOUSE Big East… that conf is Stacked!!!
By kirkinga
January 12, 2009 3:40 PM | Link to this
BravesFanInRockies, and you might add to that how people are really starting to overestimate the other starting rotations in the division.KC is closer to right than he’s getting credit for.
I think Blanton is solid for the Phils, but outside of him and Hamels, not much to fear I think.
The Marlins could be the best, could be mediocore, we don’t know because they’re so young.
The Nats, our rotation is already better as it stands now.
The Mets, I see Santana and Pelfrey. Maine has to stay healthy. I think the Braves rotation is as good as the Met’s right now, if Morton or JoJo take the next step.
So to add a Lowe or even a #2 type who will take the ball 30+ times, the Braves can compete to have the best rotation in the division. Not in the league, but the division.
But then we get to pens and there is where I think the Braves depth in the pen tilts the scale in their favor. As Lew pointed out you got another guy setting up for you in New York that doesn’t want the role. So I like the Mets pick up, put same questions about chemistry exist just with different players.
Our pen is deeper and better than those of the Nats and Marlins.And as already mentioned, without Romero, the Phils pen is inferior too, though not by much if Lidge remains perfect.
People are talking about overhyping our staff, but what about vastly underselling it, shouldn’t we watch out for that too?
By Jim
January 12, 2009 3:41 PM | Link to this
If the HOF vote were about baseball accomplishments only and likeability was not a factor, then Albert Belle would be a shoo in. He had a 7 year period in his prime that was as good as any righthanded hitter in the history of the game.
By Brandonc
January 12, 2009 3:41 PM | Link to this
The Infante extension is great, he was awesome last year. With Chipper only playing around 130 games Omar will fit in nicely.
I’m getting angry with people dismissing this signing (on other boards) just because it’s not major. I can understand everybody being mad about what has happened but get over it. There are tons of people still on the FA market and Wren has trade proposals in front of him. Things just take time. Good signing Wren.
By KC
January 12, 2009 3:42 PM | Link to this
nscoots: Forgot to addres this…
“The bullpen has a chance to be very good, but you never can tell about bullpens, either way”
Well for that matter, you never can tell about anything before it happens. All we can do at this point is size up the rosters, and make our guesses as to who looks the best. I never claimed to be Ms. Cleo.
If we can’t conjecture before the fact, what’s the point in even talking about… let’s all stop talking and wait for the season to comment on what’s already happened. Know what I mean?
The fact of the matter is that on paper, if healthy (and I’ve qualified that at every step), Gonzalez, Soriano, and Moylan (in April) gives the Braves late-inning trio unlike any other in the league.
Could something derail that? Sure. Anything can be derailed. But from where we sit right now, a healthy Braves bullpen has to look like the best in the East… on paper, which is all we have to talk about several months before opening day.
Setting aside health for a moment, which is always the king of all variables… the Braves pen is potent. The rotation, admittedly, even with Lowe, has some question marks.
Which Vazquez will we get? The 2007/Montreal version, or the 2008 (and other AL years) version? We don’t know the answer to that question yet, but either way, he’ll give you a good number of quality starts and a lot of innings.
Will Jurrjens take a step forward to become a true #1 starter, or not? It would be nice to see him take a Hamels-like step forward in his second year. But he’s already pretty darn good.
How will Kawakami do in MLB? We don’t know. But enough Japanese pitchers have taken made the move to MLB now for scouts to be able to compare the strength of Japan’s league vs. ours (and other considerations), and approximate what we can expect from a Japanese ace making the jump. He’s more likely than not to be at least a very solid middle-of-rotation starter.
Having said all of that, again, the Phillies and Mets have question marks as well. And in my view, they don’t have as much depth as we’ll have if Lowe signs here.
Anything can happen. Of course. None of use can do anything but blow smoke in January. But on paper, I like a Lowe/Jurrjens/Vazquez/kawakami/Glavine or Hanson rotation every bit as much, 1-5, as New York’s or Phili’s.
By Anders
January 12, 2009 3:43 PM | Link to this
DOB
But that doesn’t mean people are wrong to suggest the Braves might contend if they get Lowe and another big bat.
For the record, I objected to the premise posted by someone yesterday that the Braves would be contenders if they got Lowe. Not that they might contend if they got Lowe and a big bat. That’s why I made no reference to Dunn in my post earlier today. Just Lowe and Vasquez.
By Cook
January 12, 2009 3:45 PM | Link to this
DOB I’m an OU fan (still hurting from NC game…) and couldn’t agree with you more about Blake Griffin. He’s an absolute beast and should be the player of the year, assuming he continues this - or at least similar - production in Big XII play. Tonight’s game is a freat chance to really make a statement…OU/Texas 9p on ESPN.
By KC
January 12, 2009 3:45 PM | Link to this
BravesFanInRockies: Not sure I understand your point. My statement was based on the assumption (though I recognize that it’s anything but) that the Braves sign Lowe.
If Lowe doesn’t sign here, then I do NOT think the Braves rotation is as good as any in the east.
By DAP
January 12, 2009 3:46 PM | Link to this
the rays just got gabe kapler for one year $1mil. the braves could have used kapler. plays all three outfield spots, posted a .838 OPS, and is right handed. just $1mil. dang.
By Efrim
January 12, 2009 3:47 PM | Link to this
DOB
Kawakami press conference tomorrow afternoon, tentatively around 3:30 p.m. is what I’m hearing.
Any word on the financials? Or is that something you’ll find out tomorrow?
By Original Jon
January 12, 2009 3:47 PM | Link to this
Daybed, not so much as ironic, just bad timing on my part to miss the space bar, which is easy to do when you are typing fast, but replacing a j with a g when it is two keys away from each other, not acceptable. lol.
By TN Johnson
January 12, 2009 3:47 PM | Link to this
DOB, re: Gorkys and Jair being represented by Boras, I am wondering whether Boras will allow Braves to sign Jurrjiens to an extension if he has another solid year? Or will Boras just have him ride into the sunset after his 3 arbitration years are up?
By Jersey Gil
January 12, 2009 3:48 PM | Link to this
DOB How about that Kid from Wake Forrest: Guard Sophomore Jeff Teague 20.6 ppg 53.3fg% and 54.1 3pt%.
By mbatl
January 12, 2009 3:48 PM | Link to this
Good to lock up Infante. With Lillibridge gone, he’s about all we’ve got to back up SS. And while he’s not great at any position in the field, he can play most of ‘em. That’s valuable.
kirknga, (regarding Wren) fair enough, and well said…
By N Nine
January 12, 2009 3:49 PM | Link to this
Anders, DOB is right on with the comments regarding NY and Mets blogs and I this wasn’t directed towards you. You’re the better NY bloggers here so don’t take this the wrong way…
awaiting Lowe signing..please
By Porkins
January 12, 2009 3:51 PM | Link to this
DOB,
Any thoughts on Chinese Democracy?
By KC
January 12, 2009 3:51 PM | Link to this
kirkinga: I’m not sure what to say… I’m not used to having anyone on my side! LOL
By DAP
January 12, 2009 3:51 PM | Link to this
I never claimed to be Ms. Cleo.
what ever happened to her?
By AustinBravesFan
January 12, 2009 3:52 PM | Link to this
I know it sounds crazy but why don’t the Braves target Manny? He’s a great hitter. He’s a personality that Cox can handle. He has no market to speak of. A two year deal would be great for him and the Braves. We could sure use the runs.
By Dave Ross & Omar Infante
January 12, 2009 3:52 PM | Link to this
The money we’re making combined for 2009 is probably about the difference between the Red Sox and Braves’ offers to John Smoltz.
By McPoyle
January 12, 2009 3:52 PM | Link to this
But on paper, I like a Lowe/Jurrjens/Vazquez/kawakami/Glavine or Hanson rotation every bit as much, 1-5, as New York’s or Phili’s. KC
agreed, but we need some sticks! i hope we pick up a bat soon! that’s where they’ve got us beat. and NY’s bullpen just got a hell of a lot stronger and the phils have lidge chillin at the end of their pen. we’ve still got some question marks in ours with injuries and all.
By Reality
January 12, 2009 3:56 PM | Link to this
“I’d actually like to see them hold off on Gonzalez. Let’s see how he does this year before giving him big money. He is coming off major elbow surgery.”
I disagree. I think locking up Mike Gonzalez now would be a wise move. Gonzalez looked healthy, he pitched well and right now I bet the Braves could get him cheap on a pretty low-risk two-year deal. If they don’t, and he has a big 2009 and hits free agency, he ain’t gonna still be cheap.
By Mitch
January 12, 2009 3:59 PM | Link to this
While we know that Lowe is a Boras client, and that Boras is, at best, a pain in the neck to deal with, I believe that, considering how the Smoltz situation turned out, and the question of whether Glavine ever pitches again or not, this team needs Lowe more than ever.
I’m skeptical that, given the fact of how much Boras knows the Braves need Lowe, a three year, 12 mil per season deal will do it. I say, 4 year, 50 to 60 mil total, or 13 to 15 mil a year, will do it. Yes, it’s a risk to give that much to a 36 year old pitcher. Ironically, if anyone remembers John S quotes in his book, Built to Win, such a stance of refusing to give Tom Glavine a four year deal in 2002, is what drove Tommy out of here, and into the arms of the Mets. Back then, we were able to fill the holes quickly. Glavine left, and we signed Hampton, who was good for us in 03 and 04. Millwood was traded, and we signed Ortiz, who won us 21 and 15 games in 2003 and 2004. We dont have such options anymore.
I say, given our needs, if we have the money, give Lowe a good offer, and do everything we can to get him. This way, we will have gotten two decent starting pitchers over the winter, plus the Japanese guy. If those guys perform, Jurrgens is who he was in 2008, and Glavine can someone squeeze one more season out of his arm, I think our team has a shot to be decent in 2009. If we dont sign Lowe, and Frank does nothing to trade or sign another good starting pitcher before training camp, we will be short.
If we get Lowe, I’m optimistic about our chances for a wild card shot. If not, I dont think this team finishes any better than maybe 500 in 2009, unless Glavine shocks everyone, returns, and wins 15 games, which is very unlikely, given his age and health.
By bfred
January 12, 2009 4:00 PM | Link to this
The Hawk HAS to get in at some point. He was one of the scariest players in baseball for 10 years. Guy got knocked out by a fastball to the face (SI cover story), then when he woke up a few minutes later the first thing he did was charge the mound. I LOVED that guy.
By Jersey Gil
January 12, 2009 4:05 PM | Link to this
Looking at Infante signed, the Braves has a better Bench that the Phillis and Mets. Infante/Diaz/Norton/Ross/Blanco/Anderson.
I don’t know you guys but i fill better with ours team change next Year.
Let play Ball..BRAVOS
By rammerjammer
January 12, 2009 4:06 PM | Link to this
I am relieved to see Daybed Wagmoe and Original Jon peacefully resolving their grammar issue, which was clearly threatening to tear us all apart…right at the very time when we need to stick together!
Let this entire affair be a clear and present warning to bloggers who would dare to dangle their modifiers in this grammatically sacred place. We will not have it!
By Cook
January 12, 2009 4:08 PM | Link to this
Jersey Girl Good call on Teague, last night’s game against UNC was the first time i’ve really gotten to see him play, he’s an outstanding player. I love his game. But I don’t think he’s POY worthy with guys like Griffin, Hansbrough, and Curry in the mix.
By Efrim
January 12, 2009 4:10 PM | Link to this
DAP
the rays just got gabe kapler for one year $1mil. the braves could have used kapler. plays all three outfield spots, posted a .838 OPS, and is right handed. just $1mil. dang.
The real question is what does this mean for Fernando Perez, who looks like a pretty good potential leadoff hitter, in my opinion. Of course it is just a one year deal, but with Matt Joyce on the team and Desmond Jennings in the minors, maybe Perez is a player they would consider trading.
By nfieldr
January 12, 2009 4:11 PM | Link to this
Tony C Didn’t mean to imply that Dawson wasn’t HOF worthy. It just frustrates me that Murphy does not get the attention from the national media that Hawk has gotten this week.
Also, in response to Jim re: Albert Belle… if niceness and likability were factors in the HOF vote, then Murph would have been a first ballot’er. :-)
By BravesFanInRockies
January 12, 2009 4:12 PM | Link to this
OK, DOB, you’re busting my chops over Hansbrough.
Griffin’s playing better than anybody in the nation right now, no question about it. He’s my pick for POY. In mid-January. It’s a long way to April.
I was joking with some fellow Tar Heel fans last night, wondering if Carolina would finish 1-15 in the ACC. (We’ve never lost at home to Clemson and don’t see that happening this year, but still… )
Roy pointed out that Hansbrough’s freshman year they started 3-3 in the ACC and finished 12-4. So it is awfully early. And Wake may be the second best team in the ACC this year, behind, yes, the Tar Heels. The Deacs should be a lock for the Sweet 16 and I wouldn’t put the Final Four past them.
Other teams are figuring out Hansbrough’s primary weakness — he’s bull-headed. He won’t pass the ball out of the post when it gets to him. Defenses that collapse around him can force turnovers.
That’s why I expect him to be no more than a solid player in the NBA. He can’t create his own shot enough to play the three and as strong as he is, he’ll still get outmuscled offensively often enough as a four.
That said, I’d be surprised if he doesn’t play in the NBA for a long time, but it may be as an Iavaroni/Rambis type with more scoring potential. He’s quick and strong enough to be post defender, rebounder, scorer in garbage time. If the form on his faceup jumper was as solid as Boozer or Brand, I’d say he could be as good as those guys. But I still don’t see it.
If he finishes the season as the ACC’s all-time leading scorer and beats Sam Perkins’ Carolina career rebounding mark, you have to consider him one of the best in the history of the conference. Sorry.
Hansbrough is the Tim Tebow of college basketball. His game may not translate to the pros, but who cares? He’s a terrific college player and worth enjoying on that level.
By Anders
January 12, 2009 4:14 PM | Link to this
Kirkinga
As Lew pointed out you got another guy setting up for you in New York that doesn’t want the role. So I like the Mets pick up, put same questions about chemistry exist just with different players.
Can someone tell me where this is coming from? Putz said nothing but how thrilled he is to be a Met. He understands he has a set up role and has no problem with it and is looking forward to that role. I saw him say this exact thing after his press conference. Stop with the chemistry stuff guys - at least as it relates to Putz. He’s under contract next year too so that’s not an issue.
I actually think this argument would be more relevant for Soriano than Putz. He was the stopper until he got hurt and he’s heading into FA. He won’t get the $’s he would if he was a closer.If he does come back fully healthy like most on here expect than he might not be happy setting up having not proven himself as a reliable stopper over the course of a full season yet in his career.
By kirkinga
January 12, 2009 4:16 PM | Link to this
KC, I’m not saying anything that different than what I’ve said all offseason. I think everyone is operating under their own set of assumptions.
Most assumptions undervalue the talent the Braves have, especially the pitching staff. Fact is, you’re right by not overselling the other staffs.
And I’m not worried about nscoots because he is virtually the only one who thought he could admit he was wrong should the Braves play well.
Injuries and rbi’s in the clutch killed the Braves last season, not a lack of talent or performance issues so much.
That is one reason why I question pursuing Dunn.Yeah he’ll be better, we think, than platooning what we already have in house as far as power, no question there. But getting hits with runners on? Forget about it he hurts, not helps the team there.
Ibanez was clutch, no matter his defense and his age, what he did with runners on base is what the Braves really need and Dunn doesn’t give them. Abreu does, but not Dunn.If I have to take a guy with bad defense, then give me the guy who is hitting .313 with runners on and .306 with runners on and 2 outs in the brightest spotlight in baseball.
Give me clutch hitting over power any day.
By Cook
January 12, 2009 4:16 PM | Link to this
Hard to believe The Hawk still can’t get into the hall. He doens’t have the #’s to match up with the guys from the “steroid era” but he did it the right way and was one of the most feared hitters of his generation. Not to mention the cannon attached to his right shoulder. Oh, and all the SB’s he had before the knee troubles. Come on…he deserves to be in the hall!
By DAP
January 12, 2009 4:19 PM | Link to this
efrim fernando perez, eh? well i dont see the braves trading for him, since we already have alot of young outfielders in the fold. i havent see this kid play, based he looks rediculous in his espn.com picture.
By Cook
January 12, 2009 4:20 PM | Link to this
Rockies Well said about Hansbrough.
By brent a.
January 12, 2009 4:21 PM | Link to this
As much as I hate Duke, I think Laettner goes down as the greatest player in ACC, if not college basketball, history.
(No, that doesn’t mean he’s the best player of all time, I’m focusing strictly on college credentials, which naturally, get enhanced by NCAA tournament success).
Hansbrough is a great player, but he needs to lead this Carolina team to a title before he’s truly considered among the all-time ACC greats.
Last night showed me that UNC has some definite match-up issues, and that H-brough can be taken out of his game by other bigs.
By Efrim
January 12, 2009 4:23 PM | Link to this
Looking at Infante signed, the Braves has a better Bench that the Phillis and Mets. Infante/Diaz/Norton/Ross/Blanco/Anderson.
Don’t forget Prado.
By BravesFanInRockies
January 12, 2009 4:24 PM | Link to this
BTW, DOB, I completely agree about the Heels’ inconsistent defense.
Ginyard’s absence hurts. He can lock down anybody from point guard to a power forward when healthy. Green and Frasor can be awfully good for stretches, but there’s nobody else on that team who can flat take somebody else’s best scorer out of the game like Marcus (who may not be back to full strength for awhile, if at all, this year).
By Jersey Gil
January 12, 2009 4:28 PM | Link to this
Cook It Wake Forrest (14-0 1-0 Conf) going to be the Utah of College Basketball? I think if Teague play like he play now he will be POY material.
By kirkinga
January 12, 2009 4:28 PM | Link to this
Yes, it’s a risk to give that much to a 36 year old pitcher.
No offense, but people keep repeating this as if it is a given that the guy is going to fall apart.
First of all, we need to look at the guy…the arm, not his age. Second, we need to look at what type of pitcher the guy is. When you do this, giving Lowe 4 years isn’t that big a gamble. Guys are starting to pitch into their early 40’s now.
Lowe doesn’t have an extensive injury history and he is a sinkerballer not power pitcher. He appears to keep himself in descent shape too.
I would offer 4 years guaranteed and and an option 5th year if that is what it took. I see nothing that leads me to believe Lowe can pitch effectively until he’s 40.
4 years @$14-15 million/year, option for a 5th. The closer we get to the $90 million Boras said it would take, the better we are. In any case, we might have to offer what he offered Burnett and I would only be a little squeamish about that, but would do that deal.
By Jersey Gil
January 12, 2009 4:32 PM | Link to this
Efrim Yeah, sorry i forgot Prado, but i was thinking he will be ours regular Second Basement and KJ in left. In case we don’t lure a Power hitter in left.
By YoungBuck
January 12, 2009 4:32 PM | Link to this
DOB What’s the lastest on Lowe? The day the Braves had a meeting with Lowe there was thought that the Braves had offered him a contract but the terms were unknown. That was said to be false at one time and that the Braves were getting ready to offer him a contract on Monday. So just wondering if there has been any update lately?
By BravesFanInRockies
January 12, 2009 4:33 PM | Link to this
Cook,
Thanks. BTW, I’m pulling for your Sooners. Never liked Rick Barnes, even though he grew up about 40 miles from my hometown. You don’t go to Chapel Hill and diss El Deano. Ever.
Besides, I hope OU does well, as Jeff Capel’s the only one of Coach K’s proteges who looks like he’ll make anything of himself. That could be because Jeff learned his coaching chops from his father instead of Frank Burns.
By nolie
January 12, 2009 4:33 PM | Link to this
It takes me back to the blog discussion about whether Mad Dog will get 100% or not. Steve McP
I guess I missed that one, but no he won’t.
By AustinBraves
January 12, 2009 4:34 PM | Link to this
David Any word if the Braves made the offer to Lowe, and how much?
By Lew
January 12, 2009 4:34 PM | Link to this
Has anyone noticed that no one has griped about our bench? This is the first time in years that has happened. Having Prado, Infante, Norton and Diaz (not to mention the speed of Blanco/Anderson) makes a bit of difference over Woodward and Orr, doesn’t it?
By RR
January 12, 2009 4:34 PM | Link to this
You’re invited to join Kenshin Kawakami, the newest Braves pitcher, Tuesday at 4:30pm in the SunTrust Club at Turner Field. If you are able to attend, please RSVP by noon tomorrow. I’m looking forward to seeing you there!
must be offical just got this e-mail from the braves
By BravesFanInRockies
January 12, 2009 4:34 PM | Link to this
Jersey Gil,
Teague’s awfully good, but James Johnson’s the guy who scares me on that team. Aminu’s a player, too.
By Lew
January 12, 2009 4:39 PM | Link to this
Anders-I may be a creative artist type, but I assure you that I heard the thing about Putz’s (I still contend that name is a perfect fit for NY) very vocally stated preference for closing on quite a few different media outlets (and I have a Brother in Law living in Seattle).
As a mater of fact, your statement about what he’s said in NY is the first time I’ve heard anyone say that is how he really feels.
By Cook
January 12, 2009 4:40 PM | Link to this
Jersey Gil I was thoroughly impressed by Wake last night, like I said it’s the first time i’ve had to chance to really watch them. They could make a serious run, and if they do Teague will certainly get some love for POY. Just don’t think he’ll be able to beat out one of the previously mentioned players.
By Good move FW
January 12, 2009 4:41 PM | Link to this
Pete Bancheri - “fans” like you are why GM’s do boneheaded things like over-paying old/injured players. Next we’ll have women (maybe men too) saying how cute he is and always smiled. This good member of the community thing is a bunch of crap. Aren’t you a good member of your community. Most of us are. It’s a BUSINESS and if you’ve gone to games for 30+ yrs. you are an idiot if you did not know it already(the business part - I’d be the idiot to question you knowing whether you are an idiot - since you are an idiot I wanted to clear that up for you. See you at a game this year!
By brent a.
January 12, 2009 4:41 PM | Link to this
BFIR,
Excellent point about Ginyard.
The folks at FoxSports made sure we didn’t miss the fact that he was out, last night. Right after that huge defensive breakdown (before Roy called the timeout and lambasted his players), they flashed Ginyard up there and talked about how debilitating an injury like his is to a defender.
By BravesFanInRockies
January 12, 2009 4:42 PM | Link to this
Lew,
Yeah, this year’s bench does seem mighty solid, esp. if Diaz is healthy and we have Blanco or Anderson in reserve rather than playing everyday.
Woodward and Orr? Some years I think our bench might have better with Woodward and Bernstein.
By Robert
January 12, 2009 4:43 PM | Link to this
Now that none other than Smoltz has come forward saying that things werent quite as Braves management made them out to be regarding contract negotiations, is it obvious yet that Furcal and his agents arent the villains they were made out to be?
The problem isnt players or agents acting dispicably - it’s that the team that has been managed by an idiot for almost 20 years is now run by one as well
The 2009 Braves - an 85 win roster that will struggle to win 75 games
By Jersey Gil
January 12, 2009 4:44 PM | Link to this
Lew Buddy ,scroll litle big up….of your post about our bench, i think bench and good defense & pitching win games.
By Reality
January 12, 2009 4:44 PM | Link to this
Yeah, sorry i forgot Prado, but i was thinking he will be ours regular Second Basement and KJ in left. In case we don’t lure a Power hitter in left.
I highly doubt that’ll happen. That would essentially be making our new, power-hitting left fielder the team wants Martin Prado. No thanks.
Dunn > Ibanez/Abreu. Younger and with a lot more current power than Ibanez or Abreu. Gets on-base a lot better than Ibanez too. There is no such thing as clutch hitters (not hitting) neither.
By propp
January 12, 2009 4:45 PM | Link to this
i have thought all off season that Lowe would be more worth the money than Burnett
By ncscoots
January 12, 2009 4:47 PM | Link to this
BFIR, agreed about Ginyard. Booker put Hansbrough in the whirlpool twice last year, but it was Lawson and Ginyard who made those two close games with the Tigers possible. And Lawson this year, I don’t know what’s up with that guy. He’s had some uncharacteristic games, for sure. Weird.
I’ll be in Chapel Hill for the Tigers’ game, BTW. And I’ll keep going every year until we beat those suckers, LOL. I’d forgotten you were a Heels guy, but you’ve made too many good posts for me to hold it against you. :-)
By Luther
January 12, 2009 4:49 PM | Link to this
Since the Braves have locked up Infante for 2-3 years, I hope they will follow that up by extending the regular 3rd baseman another 2.
By Cook
January 12, 2009 4:50 PM | Link to this
Rockies Thanks for pulling for my team! I never had a problem with Barnes until he became associated with Texas. haha.
I like Capel a lot, and I’m not a big fan of Duke or any of Coach K’s guys (especially those 2 cronies that flank him on the bench - what a couple of dorks). Anyway, I think Capel is doing everything right at OU, hope he keeps it up!
By Random
January 12, 2009 4:50 PM | Link to this
Rescued from the dustbin of history:
Orioles Fire General Manager Wren, WaPo, 8 Oct 99; and
Text of the Press Release Issued by the Orioles
Anders: “[Soriano] was the stopper until he got hurt and he’s heading into FA.”
That’s “Closer”.
BravesFanInRockies: “Hansbrough is the Tim Tebow of college basketball.”
A-yup — college basketball ain’t seen the likes of him since the days of Magic Jackson and Lenny Byrd.
By David O'Brien
January 12, 2009 4:52 PM | Link to this
Two years, $4.3 mill for Infante, who’ll get $1.85 mill in ‘09 and $2.225 mill in 2010, with a $2.5 mill option/$250,000 buyout for 2011.
By Cook
January 12, 2009 4:54 PM | Link to this
Our bench and bullpen are solid…now we just need a starting rotation and a lineup with some pop…
By BravesFanInRockies
January 12, 2009 4:55 PM | Link to this
Cook, Jersey Gil,
I wonder if anybody can just flat come out of nowhere and even be considered for national POY. If Teague averages 25 points a game and takes Wake to the Final Four, then maybe. But Davidson could lose a dozen games and just barely get into March Madness and Stephen Curry could shoot 30 percent for the season and he’d get some POY votes for what he did in last year’s tournament.
I think to get the national writers’ attention you have to be talked about in November or December, and Teague was on nobody’s radar screens then.
By bfred
January 12, 2009 4:56 PM | Link to this
We’re dead without another big bat. I live in Houston now and can attest to what happens when you put together a team of four-tool players. Bringing in Carlos Lee helped, but when it was Berkman and a bunch of .280BA / .300SLG types it was absolutely brutal.
Also, I don’t necessarily disagree with Smoltz’ take on the situation, but he should be aware that he is risking seriously tarnishing his legacy in Atlanta. When Clemens, the hometown boy, came out of retirement with the Yankees to pitch for the Astros he absolutely walked on water. A couple of years later he elects to go back to the Yankees for the same pro-rated salary, but they let him start pitching in June instead of July when the Astros wanted him to start (he also ran out of gas in the Yankees’ postseason, so I guess the ‘stros knew what they were talking about). All the talk about wanting to be close to home, help his local team, yada yada was revealed for a bunch of BS and people here now can pretty much take him or leave him. Granted the steroid thing didn’t help, especially compared to how Andy Pettite handled it, but he went from a figure of adulation to someone who is tolerated, at best. Hopefully this doesn’t happen with Smoltz and the Braves, but it certainly could.
By Mitchell
January 12, 2009 4:57 PM | Link to this
If we’re still talking about the NL East, we know that the Phillies are the Mets get the most attention and will probably be battling it out at the end of the season.
No matter who they acquire though, even for the bullpen, the Mets fail to impress me. If I remember correctly, they still have only won the NL East 1 time in the last 20 years. Much like the Cubs never winning the World Series, the Mets will be nowhere close to winning this division.
You could argue that the Phillies have the most talent but I don’t have any reason to believe that the Marlins won’t beat out everybody else.
I still have unreasonably high expectations for the Braves in ‘09. The effect of losing John Smoltz is probably not going to help the confidence level though. I like the way they finished last year. If they play up to their abilities, which they have not been known to do in some time, they can be competitive but we’re only marginally competitive within our division.
If the Braves want to win anything this year they can’t forget the one team they really don’t know how to beat: the Nationals.
By BravesFanInRockies
January 12, 2009 4:58 PM | Link to this
ncscoots,
This may be your year! Every time I think about that record it boggles the mind, because the Heels always have trouble in Death Valley. Always.
As for Lawson — he’s vulnerable against scoring point guards who are either bigger or stronger than him and don’t turn it over. Wake’s fortunate that Teague rather than Ish Smith logs most of the minutes at the point. Smith is the kind of player Lawson eats alive.
By BravesFanInRockies
January 12, 2009 4:59 PM | Link to this
That’s a good contract for Infante. Nice job, FW.
By KC
January 12, 2009 5:05 PM | Link to this
kirkinga: “No offense, but people keep repeating this as if it is a given that the guy is going to fall apart.”
Some people just need to find a reason to be overly pessimistic, either because they like to gripe, or because the think doing so makes them sound more rational and intellectually reasoned.
The bears often like to tell you how they are so much more in touch with reality than the bulls. You just have to let them believe what they want to believe. There’s no way to win with those folks.
By kirkinga
January 12, 2009 5:09 PM | Link to this
Orioles Fire General Manager Wren, WaPo, 8 Oct 99..
After the first 100 postings I think this link loses any value.
Looking at both organizations, I’ll take the Braves over the Orioles any day. If JS thought Wren was the right guy then I have to believe there’s more to say he was right than anything the Orioles would say.
By Cook
January 12, 2009 5:09 PM | Link to this
Rockies I don’t think someone can come completely come out of nowhere to win the POY…I don’t know, I’d have to look back to see if it’s ever happened. I really don’t think it will happen this year, not when you have 2 guys in Curry and Hansbrough that have become household names (for good reason) and Griffin who is putting up freakish #’s on a top 5 team.
By Cook
January 12, 2009 5:12 PM | Link to this
Like the deal for Infante a lot. It’s a reasonable contract for valuable guy.
By RR
January 12, 2009 5:15 PM | Link to this
corky miller signed to a minor league deal with the white sox
By Curt
January 12, 2009 5:17 PM | Link to this
Random
That link into the firing of Wren really puts somethings in perspective for me.
I had no idea Wren was the GM who left Cal Ripkin Jr. at the gate. I remember being so p** when this happened just because I could not believe anyone would do that to Cal especially when he called ahead to inform them that he would just be a few minutes late.
I think this is telling in that it explains how Wren feels about iconic older players. And it seems that he has absolutely no regard for them. I have to think if the Braves had a real owner, that owner would never have let Wren allow Smoltz to leave. Angelos canned him over disrespecting Cal and a few other things. Hopefully he finally learns from all of this and signs Chipper to an extension this spring!
By David O'Brien
January 12, 2009 5:18 PM | Link to this
Please, enough with the Michael Young questions. The guy is owed $80 mill over the next five seasons, including a $10 mill signing bonus as part of that stunning contract extension he signed last year that starts now.
He just might be the most difficult player to trade in baseball right now. That’s a staggering contract, particularly in light of the new economy.
By kirkinga
January 12, 2009 5:20 PM | Link to this
KC, some people are persuadable. You just have to keep saying stuff over and over too. Then one day, someone else will make the point you’ve been making as if it was their own and then people will say “ok”.
So don’t worry. When the Braves play better than expected, all the points you try to raise now will be raised by others as their own and you will know they got it, even if they deny you said it way back when. :)
Just keep on making rational and balanced statements and you’ll see.
By Eric from MO
January 12, 2009 5:21 PM | Link to this
Sorry people but Hansborough is not the best player in ACC history. He jut cant be. Lets start by the obvious he has yet to win anything. Also just because better players went pro earlier and didnt stay as long doesnt mean Hansbourough is better.
Also with probable being the only guy on here who has actually played against Hansbourough, he isnt that great. Dont get me wrong he is good, but only because he is bigger and stronger then everyone else. I went to school 45 min. from Poplar Bluff (his high school) and played him thourghout elementary up to high school. We beat him in our elementary days but in High School the Mules owned us. However we did hang with them. Our only problem we only had one guy over 6-1 and when he went out Hansbourogh took off. That guy was 6-6 and Hansbourogh did nothing when he was in there. Now Im sure Tyler has gotten better in college, but I cant believe he could improve so much he is the greatest college player in ACC history.
By Kentavo
January 12, 2009 5:22 PM | Link to this
Get Lowe!!!
Get us a bat!!!! (not named Andruw)
By David O'Brien
January 12, 2009 5:23 PM | Link to this
A-yup — college basketball ain’t seen the likes of him since the days of Magic Jackson and Lenny Byrd.Random
Don’t know if you’re talking about Lenny Bias or Larry Bird, but — no offense — Tyler H. isn’t half as gifted as either of them or Magic.
By Brooklyn Braves Brawler
January 12, 2009 5:23 PM | Link to this
I like the fact that the blog is seeing the light concerning the Smoltz departure. I hated to see him go but, Frank Wren had to cut his losses in order to put a competitive team on the field.
Smoltz out for the half the year doesen’t make us competitive. The games you win in April, May, and June are just as important and count the same as the ones in July, August, and September. Wren needs guys on the field playing not on the DL. I believe that Glavine, Smoltz, Andruw, and Furcal don’t give us a chance to be competitive. Injury history for the pitchers, and consistency for the hitters.
Kawakami gives the Braves a look that they have never had before, while JV eats crazy innings. I would rather have 5 or 6 pretty good pitchers then 2 really good but always injured pitchers.
Go get DUNN or Sheff
By blueridge
January 12, 2009 5:29 PM | Link to this
Hate to lose Smoltz, but does anyone else see a perfect Ewing Theory situation?The youngsters won’t be fighting their way out from the shadow of the big three anymore.
I’m coming out of mourning for ‘the Smoltz debacle’ and I am actually looking forward to the season. I believe that this is the year the young guys and the journeymen acquisitions begin to create their own Braves legacy. Let’s hope it’s similar to that of the 90’s rather than the 80’s. Either way, it feels like a fresh start.
Let’s buy an arm, and trade for a bat.
By Anders
January 12, 2009 5:30 PM | Link to this
Lew
As a mater of fact, your statement about what he’s said in NY is the first time I’ve heard anyone say that is how he really feels.
I saw it with my own eyes on FSNY after the press conference welcoming him to the team. He didn’t appear to be going through the motions either. Now I do believe he would want to be a closer(Happy random?)down the road but I think he’s just as happy to know he’ll be paid like a closer in 2010 wether he closes or not.
That’s the difference between his situation and Soriano’s.
Now if we want to talk chemistry - last week wasn’t a pretty one for your squad. Chipper and Glavine firing off missiles at mgt. Whoever that was who’s been working out with Smoltz basically under cutting Wren with his “Smoltz looks great and could be ready early in the year” (paraphrasing) comments.
If the Braves don’t get Lowe I think Chipper might explode. I’ll bet Boras is thinking that too.
By THE BEAR
January 12, 2009 5:31 PM | Link to this
A passing thought
If Wren had signed Smoltz for $5.5 mil and then Glavine for $5 mil that $10.5 million would be equal to 10% of our annual budget and enough to buy one heck of a solid bat for left field.
Let’s face facts; Glavine looked horrible in September of 2007 with the Mets and he looked washed up for the short time he pitched last year. My studied opinion is that Glav has reached the end of the line and sentiment aside, it is time for him to announce his retirement. Just think how great it would be for him and Maddux to be elected to the HALL OF FAME together and on their first shots.
And if Smoltz could set aside his ego and his quest to squeeze a few more million out of this great game it could be a threesome. But alas, that is not to be.
It is time to move on from the glory years of Maddux, Glavine and Smoltz. It is over and soon the same problem will rear its head concerning Chipper. One year soon he will be unable to play even 100 games and then what does Frank Wren do, give him a contract for $15 million just for old times sake?
If Wren did that and if he worked for me I’d fire him (Wren) on the spot. His job is to put a winner on the field, not to play nostalgia games.
So much for this afternoon.
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
January 12, 2009 5:35 PM | Link to this
The Tampa Rays sign Gabe Kapler to a one year, one million contract. Kapler, who played outfield for the Milwaukee Brewers last season, said he chose the Rays because they gave him the best chance to play on a winning team. The 32 year old veteran hit .301 last season in part time duty for the Brewers and plays all three outfield spots.
Our outfield is at best, suspect. Nothing has been done to upgrade it.
By David O'Brien
January 12, 2009 5:35 PM | Link to this
Hansbrough is the Tim Tebow of college basketball. His game may not translate to the pros, but who cares? He’s a terrific college player and worth enjoying on that level.BravesFanInRockies
That would be an easier comparison to make if he leads the Heels to the national title. So far, Tebow’s the one who’s stepped up in the biggest stage and led his team to the ultimate prize with outstanding plays in crucial moments of THE game.
Oh, and Tebow doesn’t get taken out of his game or frustrated by any bigger, stronger opponents.
By propp
January 12, 2009 5:38 PM | Link to this
Gotta keep pushing (as if what we say matters) Get Dunn!
By Tomas
January 12, 2009 5:43 PM | Link to this
The Braves have for sure 55.05 million, not counting arbitration elegible, McCann’s raise, Soriano’s raise, and FA signing’s. Also not counting Tim hudson’s insurance money.
So far they have signed Infante(changes from 1.4 million to 1.85 million), David Ross(1.5 million), and Greg Norton(1.75 to 0.800k). They traded for Javier Vazques(11.5 million). Brian McCann raises from 3.5 million to 5.5 million, and Rafael Soriano raises from 2.4 million to 6.1 million. So far they’ve spent for sure 19.95 million of the 55.05 million they have for sure.
Their other arbitration-eligible players — Jeff Francoeur(earned 460k, I think he will earn 1.15 million next year), Mike Gonzalez(earned 2.36 million, I don’t expect much of a change, maybe 2.5 million, but I’m just guessing), Kelly Johnson(earned 380k, I think he will earn 470k), Matt Diaz(earned 1.22 million, he might get a raise similar to Infante’s 1.85 million), and Casey Kotchman(earned 1.45 million, I think his raise would give him 2.25 million). With all the arb raises, the Braves would have to pay 2.35 million extra.
And lets say Kenshin Kawakami gets a contract worth 3yrs 21 million(7 mill/per year).
I think they have around 25.75 million left. Not counting Tim Hudson’s insurance money. IF PAYROLL stays the same.
By pat
January 12, 2009 5:51 PM | Link to this
Glavine should retire, he done enough. And we’ve been reduced to being happy about a utility guy Infante? Wah.
We might as well see if Horner’s willing to pick up a bat. We could move Hubbard from first base coach to first base.
I am going have to start snorting Prozac to get over the abomination of this off-season.
By THE BEAR
January 12, 2009 5:53 PM | Link to this
Tebow is back for 2009 and it looks like Harvin and Spikes are coming back also. If they all return that means Florida will lose only 4 offensive players from their starting 22 (none from defense). And if that happens I feel a bit sorry for their opponents next year.
By kirkinga
January 12, 2009 5:55 PM | Link to this
Tomas, you’re right the Braves still have money to get another arm and bat. I think Glavine will be back on a prorated basis as well. I just hope Ohman can be resigned, and if not him, than Beimel could work too.
With prices reportedly falling for remaining free agents, the Braves should have the money to get done what they need to do.
By winterville
January 12, 2009 5:56 PM | Link to this
Anders
I remember the same thing as Lew in regards to Putz not wanting to setup for someone. He and his agent were less than pleased that he was going to have to set up for someone who they frankly felt like he was better than. And he was better than K-Rod the year before last. It wasn’t that he didn’t want to go to the Mets, it was just that he didn’t want to set up for anyone. It was exactly like what you suggested about Soriano not getting a chance to prove his value. Maybe things have changed since then but when it first happened, he was definitely pizzed off.
By Chop Chop
January 12, 2009 5:59 PM | Link to this
DOB,
You mysteriously mention Ohman in your write-up on the Infante signing. It’s a sentence that just kinda shows up out of the blue.
(As a journalism major, I figured I’d help…hahaha.)
By PutMeInCoach
January 12, 2009 6:00 PM | Link to this
DOB,
Not a Hansbrough fan huh? Just be thankful that Roy Williams threw that game for his old Jayhawks last year! Come on, he pulled a Tark spotting Kansas 20 points.
By BravesFanInRockies
January 12, 2009 6:01 PM | Link to this
That would be an easier comparison to make if he leads the Heels to the national title.
I’ll give you that one. No question. In fact, unless the Heels win this year then Laettner probably should be considered the best ever because of his team’s success. Of course, you could argue Laettner wasn’t the best player on his team every season he was at Duke, because his tenure overlapped with Ferry and Hill. There’s no question Hansbrough has been the best player on the Tar Heels every year he’s been there.
Oh, and Tebow doesn’t get taken out of his game or frustrated by any bigger, stronger opponents.
True, and that is where the comparison doesn’t translate from one sport to another. If Tebow were a tight end or a linebacker, then maybe.
By Doc Holiday
January 12, 2009 6:04 PM | Link to this
If we get Ohman back and Lowe…….do we really have anything to fear ? Is the muts pitching better than ours?
I dont think so………..
MOYLAN + OHMAN + GONZALEZ is and amazing way to close games……..Then there is a chance that SORIANO wakes up. No chance they have a better pitching staff if moylan comes back and we get lowe.
By Bill in ATL
January 12, 2009 6:05 PM | Link to this
Wrong blog BEAR, but since you brought it up all I can say is that a football can take some funny bounces from year to year and you never know what might happen. Seems USC was supposed to win every championship in the last 7 years based on what they had coming back and how many do they have? The SEC is a meat grinder.
By Lew
January 12, 2009 6:08 PM | Link to this
Reduced to being happy about a utility guy? Don’t know about reduced. Weren’t we reduced when we had Woodward? Hard to feel reduced when you sign a guy who played five positions and hit .296 while doing it. We’re much more reduced by fans who can’t see this as being a valuable move.
By BravesFanInRockies
January 12, 2009 6:08 PM | Link to this
Doc Holiday,
Don’t forget Acosta. He could still help us a lot.
By Steve from OH
January 12, 2009 6:15 PM | Link to this
Did Tim Kurkjian just say that “some of his voter friends” think that McGwire didn’t have the stats to get into the HOF!?!? That’s insane. Those guys shouldn’t be allowed to vote anymore…I can see the steroids argument, but the “no stats” argument is just…wow.
By Lew
January 12, 2009 6:21 PM | Link to this
Soriano has been an excellent pitcher since coming to Atlanta. Yes, he missed most of last season, but if we were all aware of what the problem was and what they did to remedy the situation, maybe we’d be a bit more confident about his return.
He had a nerve that, every time he threw a baseball, would snap over the bone in his elbow. I would imagine it hurt like hell with every pitch. They moved the nerve to the other side so it could no longer happen.
I read an article about him in which he was interviewed (Chop Talk’s latest issue). The surgery was quite successful and he is now throwing at close to 100%. He feels he will be ready for Spring Training and ready to go at the beginning of the season.
Since coming to Atlanta, he has appeared in 85 games. His ERA is 2.79. He has struck out 86 batters (one per inning) and only walked 24 for an almost 4-1 K to BB ratio. His WHIP is 1.00 Even in the few innings he pitched last year, he was still effective. If pain free as he now appears to be, he should be quite an addition compared to last year.
Having him back strong would make every bit as much of a difference to the Braves’ performance as anyone we could trade for or acquire as a Free Agent at this point.
By Dixie Dawg
January 12, 2009 6:22 PM | Link to this
Random
I posted that same article a while back…
got nearly blasted off the blog for it..
then I changed my attitude a little bit towards Wren.
Then the Smoltz thing, and I was back off the Wren bandwagon..
I do see the correlation there, though…
just my 2 cents worth…
By David O'Brien
January 12, 2009 6:28 PM | Link to this
Chop Chop, as a journalism major, you might also know that what happens to a writer’s copy after he sends it in is out of his hands, right?
This paragraph got edited out of my story, the first reference to Will Ohman:
The Braves acquired Infante, 27, and left-handed reliever Will Ohman from the Chicago Cubs in a December 2007 trade for rookie reliever Jose Ascanio, who had a 7.94 ERA in six major-league appearances in 2008 and spent most of the season in Class AAA.
THANKS for pointing it out, though, because I wouldn’t have noticed. Desk has now been notified.
By Dixie Dawg
January 12, 2009 6:30 PM | Link to this
RR
Oh my gosh…Bobby Cox will want to bring Corky back to stink up the roster!
By kirkinga
January 12, 2009 6:31 PM | Link to this
Soriano has been an excellent pitcher since coming to Atlanta.
I agree Lew, I think people forget how solid he has been and just remember the times he struggled(homers do make an impression don’t they).
Most of all, I think people think his struggles were more mental than physical and they also questioned his heart.But his return to health along with that of Moylan is one reason why I think the Braves are already an improved team over the one that closed out the season.
By jonbrewelberton
January 12, 2009 6:36 PM | Link to this
Glavine delayed his bullpen and denys not feeling any discomfort???
Yeah right……I’m not doctor, but something isnt right in there or he’d jumped on the mound and tested it out! Two long toss sessions will have NO IMPACT whatsoever on whether he can throw off the mound without discomfort….
this has red flag written all over it!
By BravesFanInRockies
January 12, 2009 6:50 PM | Link to this
jonbrewelberton,
Bingo.
By DCbrave
January 12, 2009 6:51 PM | Link to this
Chop Chop, as a journalism major, you might also know that what happens to a writer’s copy after he sends it in is out of his hands, right? -David O’Brien
I’ve had similar experiences. While I’m not a journalist, my work/job also involves writing that is edited by others. Sometimes the editors would call me telling me that something in my writing lacks antecedent basis but they failed to notice that the antecedent basis was deleted by themselves first.
By BravesFanInRockies
January 12, 2009 6:54 PM | Link to this
PutMeInCoach,
Until the Heels win another title, or beat KU in the tournament, Roy won’t be able to live down this year’s Final Four. Some folks may never let him do it.
By Doc Holiday
January 12, 2009 6:54 PM | Link to this
BravesFanInRockies
I never forget about Acosta. He is our wildcard. But he does not receive much support around, so I try not to mention about him. IMO, once he develops, we can get rid of soriano in the blink of an eye.
By Virgil
January 12, 2009 6:55 PM | Link to this
Give Hanson another year, maybe half a season, in AAA. We should have learned not to wheel the young guys out to fast. Have some patience.
By SeaAtl
January 12, 2009 6:56 PM | Link to this
Guess no news is good news regarding Kawakami’s physical today…….?
I had forgotten, until reading a post here, that Soriano will be hack & healthy for us. With him, Gonzalez, Moylan, and Ohman (if he stays), that could be a pretty good bullpen.
Kawakami and Vasquez have improved our starting rotation, and, man, if we ended up with another SP…….
……that would just leave the outfield. We would at least be competitive in ‘09 - I mean, the Mets’ starting rotation is Santana and then…………who, exactly?!
By Chop Chop
January 12, 2009 6:58 PM | Link to this
Amen, DOB. My “hahaha” was one of commiseration.
By Jake C.
January 12, 2009 7:06 PM | Link to this
DOB,
What do you think of Steph Curry’s game? You obviously had a chance to see him in the tourney last year. As a biased Davidson fan, he gets my player of the year vote. He did drop 44 at Oklahoma, but I can see the Griffin supporters’ point of view. They are certainly both better than Hansbrough.
By GSU-Lee
January 12, 2009 7:06 PM | Link to this
I think Tim Tebow is comprable to Christian Laettner. Laettner was phenomenal in college, and clutch at that (just ask Kentucky). But Hansbrough is not that yet. He is a great player, no doubt. But the greatest ACC player ever? Are you insane? I know he didn’t do much there, but what about Mike? And what about Laettner? Neither of those guys have put up the points that TH has but with the game on the line I will take Laettner.
By keylargo
January 12, 2009 7:07 PM | Link to this
BFIR
I am going to have to concede that I was wrong about Mark Kotsay getting a $4 million contract as a free agent. A lot of things have happened since Aug. but an incentive laden $1.5 million contract is not $4 million. Damn, I’d hate to have to get by on that. :-))
And Steve from OH, I’ve been meaning to ask you, since you are the stat man, about a simple stat I have always watched. Strikeouts vs. Hits. I just don’t like a player, no matter how productive he seems, if he has more strikeouts than hits. Too many men left on base and rallies killed. Adam Dunn has been in this category his entire career. Nick Swisher has been the last year or two. Andruw Jones, a solid member for the last two.
Do you think the stat has any value despite never being mentioned by statistics people? Maybe just too basic?
By SeaAtl
January 12, 2009 7:09 PM | Link to this
I meant “back” & healthy, not “hack” & healthy in my 6:56 post - my damn copy editor screwed me again.
I guess with the feeling of doom & gloom this offseason I shouldn’t be surprised for some to read a lot in to Glavine delaying throwing off the mound. But, really, this is his first major arm injury & surgery, so I’d think it human nature to take it slow & easy…..and I think it was to avoid these jumps to conclusions that Smoltzie decided not to give updates during HIS rehad…….
By SeaAtl
January 12, 2009 7:13 PM | Link to this
rehaB
By WrenFlops
January 12, 2009 7:18 PM | Link to this
DOB, nice numbers Blake Griffin has put up. No doubt he’s a fine player. Just wondering, how many conference championships, conference tournament championships and NCAA tournament wins has Griffin led Oklahoma to? If you want to argue just about sheer numbers, you also have to argue for Seth Curry.
By Doc Holiday
January 12, 2009 7:23 PM | Link to this
SeaAtl
I will never believe Soriano is healthy until I watch him pitch for 2 straight months without bad news.
By Billy Walsh
January 12, 2009 7:26 PM | Link to this
Curry looked horrendous against Duke the other night. I would draft Teague over Curry in a heartbeat. Teague is going to be another Chris Paul at the next level. Hansbrough is a nice player. No way he is in the top 5 ACC players of all time. Until he wins a championship (UNC plays no defense) he cannot be considered one of the all time greatest. Wake should make a run in the tournament this year. Watch Clemson too. Trevor Booker is an absolute beast.
By NickB
January 12, 2009 7:31 PM | Link to this
keylargo
I think that K’s- Hits is less important than K’s - BB’s + Hits. Getting on base is the most important thing a hitter can do.
i always reckoned that the better ration of BB’s and Hits to K’s one has , the better hitter they are.
By KC
January 12, 2009 7:33 PM | Link to this
Doc Holiday: Prior to 2008, Soriano missed almost no time other than the time he missed from TJ surgery. He was healthy and reliable before that, and he pitched two full seasons after his recover from the TJ surgery.
Not saying he’s a picture of perfect health, but you’re talking about him like we talked about Mike Hampton early last year. Not sure he deserves that much doubt.
It certainly won’t shock me if he has further health trouble, but the Braves are confident that they found and corrected the issue toward the end of last season.
By Ifs' and Buts'
January 12, 2009 7:58 PM | Link to this
A lot of talk on the blog about who might have the best rotation in the NL East with/without Lowe added to the picture and who might be the favorite should certain scenarios play out.
That’s the cool thing about baseball. Everyone starts the season with lots of “IFs’.”
IF JJJ matures and steps it up just a little. IF Vazquez finds the same form he exhibited when he was in the NL and with the Expos. IF Campillo can repeat what he found last year. IF Morton suddenly finds confidence. IF Jo Jo turns out to be what the Braves hype machine predicts rather than another HoRam. IF Glavine’s surgically repaired arm suddenly feels ten years younger and he again throws like the Glavine of old. IF the Japanese guy throws with the same success he did in Japan. IF Soriano’s arm is finally sound and he lives up to expectations. IF Moylan comes back effectively. IF Gonzo can stay healthy and consistent. IF Frenchy grows up and displays maturity at the plate and with his approach to the game. IF Chipper can play 145 games. IF Escobar displays the discipline of a veteran. IF KJ plays consistently rather than being a steak machine. IF Kotchman can get over the trade and begin producing like he did as an Angel. IF Diaz stays healthy and hits like he did in 2006-2007 instead of like he hit in 2008. IF Blanco, Anderson, Schafer, or (fill in the blank) steps up big time. AND IF the Braves get an outfield bat…………….then the Braves are going to be right there in the thick of the NL East!
By jcmo71
January 12, 2009 8:06 PM | Link to this
1991 - Game 7 on espn classic
By Doc Holiday
January 12, 2009 8:07 PM | Link to this
KC
There are some players I just cant believe in until further notice……….Soriano is one of them. I just lost confidence in him. Maybe it is Braves fault because they didnt shut him down, because they desperately needed help.
Others are……….Glavine and JF.
I hope at least one of them gives us a nice surprise.
By Mark
January 12, 2009 8:08 PM | Link to this
If I wasn’t so bored, I wouldn’t have read that entire post …
By AustinBraves
January 12, 2009 8:35 PM | Link to this
It looks like the Mets are out of the running for Lowe, they just offered Perez 3years $30mil. They are only looking for one pitcher.
By Iron Labrum
January 12, 2009 8:37 PM | Link to this
Smoltzie’s looking strong on Classic. It’s kind of funny to see Morris’ stache and Smoltz rockin’ the baby broom.
By A-ville Ranger
January 12, 2009 8:44 PM | Link to this
The 7th game of the 1991 World Series, Braves vs Twins is being replayed on ESPN classics right now.Watching a young John Smoltz two things come to mind.
He should have retired a Brave.
His stuff actually got better as he aged.He had the big fastball back then but not nearly as much break on his slider as he developed later.
By kirkinga
January 12, 2009 8:51 PM | Link to this
It certainly won’t shock me if he has further health trouble, but the Braves are confident that they found and corrected the issue toward the end of last season.
Don’t let them scare you off KC. You were right to start, Soriano did miss very little time. Add to that the discovery of an actual issue(when some raised the question if there really was one) and it’s correction.
Some players have a track record. People like to emphasize the bad and ignore any good. That’s why someone can be solidly behind Soriano, and even Francouer. We know they can get it done because they have done it before.
Any injured player has to come back and stay healthy, that’s just the logic of an jury and return situation.
By BravoMan
January 12, 2009 8:53 PM | Link to this
“It looks like the Mets are out of the running for Lowe, they just offered Perez 3years $30mil. They are only looking for one pitcher.”
This doesn’t exactly mean the Mets are out on Lowe. They’re just keeping their options open. My sources tell me Omar perfers Perez, and others in the organization perfer Lowe. But with the Braves making a strong pursuite for Lowe the Mets are considering settling for Perez. I hope that Boras won’t drag out the Lowe deal and that the Braves can lock him up for 4 years.
By Doc Holiday
January 12, 2009 8:58 PM | Link to this
Muts made an offer to Perez……….does that means they are giving up on lowe?
3 year——————30 million………….sounds like they are money short.
By JasonInFL (Formerly ME)
January 12, 2009 9:05 PM | Link to this
Any news on whether or not the Braves have made their initial offer to Lowe?
By Eeyore Cox
January 12, 2009 9:06 PM | Link to this
Just saw that the ChiSox signed Corky Miller. Have to speak with Wren about a Corky/Dye package. If we swap ‘em Jurrjens and Moylan, maybe they would throw in some sugar cubes and a bag of oats.
Frank, my diaper needs changing. I heard Corky was “lights out” and could platoon with McCann.
By KC
January 12, 2009 9:07 PM | Link to this
A-ville Ranger: “The 7th game of the 1991 World Series, Braves vs Twins is being replayed on ESPN classics right now.Watching a young John Smoltz two things come to mind. He should have retired a Brave.”
Agreed. He should have retired a Braves. Broke my heart as a baseball fan. It really did. I can’t believe he turned his back on Braves fans and walked away… but he did.
Sad.
By Ron in mobile
January 12, 2009 9:09 PM | Link to this
The lemmer hangin tuff against Morris…great stuff!!
By KC
January 12, 2009 9:10 PM | Link to this
BravoMan: I wouldn’t make the assumption that an offer to Perez (if true) means that they are out of the picture for Lowe. It seems to me as though they should have enough money to do both. Especially given their new ballpark and all.
However, if they already have Perez in the picture, it might lessen their motivation to battle the Braves to the very end for Lowe’s services.
By Tomas
January 12, 2009 9:10 PM | Link to this
If the Mets sign Perez does that mean they won’t be interested in Lowe??????
By BravoMan
January 12, 2009 9:14 PM | Link to this
Well the Mets certainly aren’t willing to spend a whole lot this year, and if they’re looking at cliants of Boras then that usually doesn’t mix. Boras will certainly get the most money he can for both Lowe and Perez. I’m thinking the Braves are willing to spend more than the Mets just to make up for Smoltz absence. And that’s why Lowe could become a Brave.
By NJBraves
January 12, 2009 9:15 PM | Link to this
I never understand all the hate for Tyler Hansborough. The kid plays hard every game, practices just as hard from what I’ve read, and seems to only care about his team winning games. On top of that, he stayed at school for his senior year to try and win a national championship. Yeah, sounds like a real jerk to me.
By BravoMan
January 12, 2009 9:20 PM | Link to this
DOB, Any word on how much Kawakami will receive? Or when the Braves offer for Lowe will be given?
By KC
January 12, 2009 9:21 PM | Link to this
Wren won’t be screwed over…
We all know what Wren’s response was when Furcal’s agent asked him to improve his offer after a verbal agreement had been reached. He essentially told him to go stuff himself.
But something else just occurred to me…
At a certain point, Wren realized that Kevin Towers was jerking him around. So he broke off those talks. But he didn’t just end negotiations… he publicly DECLARED he was doing so.
Why? Why make that public declaration?
Kevin Towers was using the Braves to leverage a better deal from the Cubs. When Wren realized that, he didn’t just bail out of those talks, he made sure everyone knew it, as a way of sticking it to Towers.
It was as though he said “Your going to d!ck with us and use us as leverage? well we’ll throw a wrench in that right now… We’ll make sure the Cubs and everyone else knows that we’re not playing this game.”
I remember being a little surprised by his declaration at the time. I wondered why he made that public announcement. Now it makes sense.
Wren is the kind of guy that doesn’t take any st. I like that in a GM.**
By **eric in albany**
January 12, 2009 9:23 PM | Link to this
HOW DOES OMAR GET A CONTRACT EXTENTION! He Is By Far The Most Over Rated GM In Baseball. Who Do They Think They Are Bidding Against? No Other Team Could Possibly Want To Spend 30 Mill For 3 Yrs On Perez… Could They? Be Afraid Philly, Tim Redding And Olly Perez Are Coming To The Mets! Be Very Afraid! Oh Wait They Do Have 2 Closers! one of whom is angry about being relegated to setup duties. And We All Know How Well That Works Out For A Team!
By KC
January 12, 2009 9:25 PM | Link to this
BravoMan: “My sources tell me Omar perfers Perez, and others in the organization perfer Lowe.”
Your sources?
I’m not trying to be a smartalec, but… are you an NY journalist or somthing?
By Lew
January 12, 2009 9:25 PM | Link to this
Fred Wilpon, the Mets’ owner, lost an estimated $300-500 million in that Wall Street Ponzi scheme. I’d be shocked if it didn’t affect the Mets’ winter budget adversely.
By athensmatt
January 12, 2009 9:26 PM | Link to this
DOB
read over on the braves message board that the braves may have interest in jeff francis in exchange for jo-jo, locke, and a double-A outfield prospect. thoughts?
also some movie RENTAL suggestions:
transsiberian the counterfeiters (won academy award for best foreign film last year)
that is all.
By TennesseePaul
January 12, 2009 9:26 PM | Link to this
DOB: As a Hall of Fame voter who can not vote due to his job, do you still receive a voting ballot? If so, what do you do with it? Is there a box on it that states, “Not voting due to occupational hazard”?
By BravoMan
January 12, 2009 9:27 PM | Link to this
KC,
That was my point aswell. Did you read my post lol? You are correct in saying this puts a little pressure off Wren to land Lowe. Mets are content with Perez and the Braves are most likely gonna pay more for Lowe. Upperhand=Bravos
By keylargo
January 12, 2009 9:33 PM | Link to this
I always thought the Braves lost the 91 series because the Twins park was just a bleeping joke as a MLB stadium. Remember, the home team won all 7 games of the series.
By Neon Deion
January 12, 2009 9:37 PM | Link to this
Where McCarver at?
By Yars
January 12, 2009 9:38 PM | Link to this
Smart move by Wren in locking up Infante for a couple years. One of our positives is that we have some pretty good utility infielders in both Infante & Prado. I still think Wren flirting with the idea of trading KJ & making Prado the everyday 2B would be a huge mistake. now playing: solo impala by the fashion.
By Smartalec
January 12, 2009 9:40 PM | Link to this
Your sources?
I’m not trying to be a smartalec, but… are you an NY journalist or somthing? KC
His source is MLB Traderumors, who ran with that story about a week ago and made a comment again yesterday.
By Cameron in NC
January 12, 2009 9:42 PM | Link to this
DOB, Frank Wren said they have trades on his desk right now from weeks ago. Do you have any idea who the pitchers could be that he is seeking. Or do you have an opinion of who it could be. I really think Frank Wren is going to surprise Braves nation with a trade of a really good pitcher. But thats just my opinion.
By Bill
January 12, 2009 9:51 PM | Link to this
SportingNew said, Mets are interested in both pitchers Lowe and Perez and thats not the only free agent starter that interest the Mets. They are close to making offer to Randy Wolf.
Not a giv’en that Braves get Lowe,Not yet.
Wren, trade on his desk for 6 weeks…what the he!! is he waiting on?
By BravoMan
January 12, 2009 9:57 PM | Link to this
“I’m not trying to be a smartalec, but… are you an NY journalist or somthing?”
Maybe, maybe not, maybe F yourself…
By Lew
January 12, 2009 10:01 PM | Link to this
Bill-Probably he’s waiting to get a pitcher without trading anyone.
By brent a.
January 12, 2009 10:08 PM | Link to this
The Twins won 2 World Series in 5 years; yet, they never won a road World Series game.
By David O'Brien
January 12, 2009 10:08 PM | Link to this
Damn, can’t believe how much a few of you guys make of a not-that-important comment by Wren in a radio interview. “What is he waiting on?!!” Bill asks. Bill, I don’t know, maybe he’s waiting on a trade that makes sense for the Braves.
What, do you just advocate pulling the trigger on any trade proposal that a team makes the Braves? That sounds reasonable. Trade proposal was made six weeks ago? Then by all means, it’s aged now, nice and ripe, so time to pull the trigger on that one. Get ‘r’ done, whatever it was it had to be a good one if another team proposed it to you. Do it. Now. Yesterday.
Geez….
Folks, it wasn’t the Peavy deal. They stopped talking to the Padres about that nearly two months ago. And sorry, but they don’t keep us updated on every trade proposal made — there are many trades proposed by just about every team every winter, and you (and me, and other reporters) hear about only a fraction of them.
Do yourselves a favor and quit stressing about a comment Frank made and probably didn’t think twice about since he made it. Relax. Breathe deep. It’s seriously not something we need to open an investigation to get to the bottom of.
By David O'Brien
January 12, 2009 10:11 PM | Link to this
TennPaul, yes I receive a Hall of Fame ballot. It’s sitting here next to me on my desk, unreturned….
Saw a GREAT MOVIE tonight — The Reader with Kate Winslet. Wow, what an emotional wallop that film packs. Seriously strong stuff, overwhelmingly sad at times, uplifting at others. Terrific performance by Winslet. If she or Melissa Leo (Frozen Lake) doesn’t win the best-across, it’ll be a major injustice.
By Bill
January 12, 2009 10:13 PM | Link to this
Lew - I would agree with that. Just wishing for that big bat. Would also like a L/H starting pitcher.
BravoMan - be nice to that old man, he’s like me, just loves the Braves and wants the Best.
By Bill
January 12, 2009 10:13 PM | Link to this
Lew - I would agree with that. Just wishing for that big bat. Would also like a L/H starting pitcher.
BravoMan - be nice to that old man, he’s like me, just loves the Braves and wants the Best.
By David O'Brien
January 12, 2009 10:16 PM | Link to this
BravoMan: I almost forgot, glad you mentioned Lowe and the offer. Braves made it on Friday. Not sure what it was, but do know it’s almost certainly gonna have to be increased. However, when I asked Boras about it tonight he didn’t act dismissive or indicate at all that it was way below his expectations, anything like that.
I’m guessing they made a three-year offer for more per season than the rumored $36 mill that the Mets were talking about offering (which Boras says was not an offer the Mets actually presented to him).
But I’m also guessing the AAV (average annual value) is probably going to have to be $15 mill or so in at least a three-plus-an-option deal, if not a four-year deal. We’ll see. He wouldn’t say how many teams have made offers or when a decision might be made.
By Random
January 12, 2009 10:23 PM | Link to this
Dixie Dawg — sorry for the repeat — I musta missed it the first (“100”) time(s).
kirkinga — no apologies for you, snippy.
Curt — well, my take is somewhat different from yours. I don’t see it as any kind of evidence that Wren is a “player hater” (my inference from your comment — apologies if I misconstrued).
Reading between the lines, what it looks like to me is that Wren was set up, ambushed and lynched by an arbitrary and autocratic owner.
DOB: “Don’t know if you’re talking about Lenny Bias or Larry Bird, but — no offense — Tyler H. isn’t half as gifted as either of them or Magic.”
Thanks for rounding my point off there for me.
Anders: “Now I do believe he would want to be a closer (Happy random?) down the road but I think he’s just as happy to know he’ll be paid like a closer in 2010 wether he closes or not.”
Not as happy as I am right now!!!
(sigh — he said my name … flutter)
Anders: “As for the denizens here, yes there are a lot of folks on here that know a lot about baseball that I’ve learned from. Efrim, Lew, KC and Shaun to name a few.”
What about me? What about “closer”?
(pout)
By Randy S
January 12, 2009 10:24 PM | Link to this
Just glancing at Jim Rice’s stats, his counting stats are very similar (if not inferior) to Chipper’s. Granted, it was a different era. Chipper also bests Rice by 100 points in OPS. I think Chip is a lock to make it in quicker than Rice, just thought that the similarity was interesting.
Oh yeah, and Chipper plays third and Rice LF (in Fenway).
Chipper Career
Rice Career
By Bill
January 12, 2009 10:29 PM | Link to this
Thanks DOB! Do you fill better now? The Movie and its strong stuff must have got to you. But you know what? I still like you and the job you do. If I made you feel better, Great.
By Dixie Dawg
January 12, 2009 10:30 PM | Link to this
eh
By TN-MAN
January 12, 2009 10:30 PM | Link to this
DOB.. Why do you think Bowman is reporting that the Braves did not make an offer Friday? Also, what do you make of the Mets offer to Perez as it relates to where Lowe may go?
By Dixie Dawg
January 12, 2009 10:33 PM | Link to this
Random
The classics never die, man :-)
By David O'Brien
January 12, 2009 10:35 PM | Link to this
JakeC, no doubt Curry’s a great player, though he’s not been nearly as consistent a shooter this season. I did cringe when Davidson came down the court and he had the ball in the closing seconds against KU in the tourney. Then he passed it, to the delight of Jayhawks everywhere….
All-time ACC greats? Off the top of my head, I’d start with David Thompson (my personal No. 1 pick), Len Bias and Christian Laettner, at least among guys during my lifetime. James Worthy, Michael Jordan, Ralph Sampson, Tim Duncan … sorry, but I just feel strongly about the fact that I’ve watched quite a few better ACC players than Mr. Hansbrough.
And please don’t give me his four-year career totals as the argument. I’m just telling you — and anyone else who’s watched ACC basketball for the past 30-40 years would probably agree — that we’ve seen better, more dominant players since the ’70s than this guy.
By the way, in Roy Williams’ offense, Michael Jordan would’ve averaged 25-28 points per game. How do you think Hansbrough’s career totals might have been affected playing under Dean Smith? Phil Ford ran the Four Corners stall to perfection, not exactly a stats-booster….
Now does Tyler play as hard or harder than anyone I’ve seen? Yes, no question about that. And it’s quite admirable. I’d want him on my team, for sure.
But that alone does not make a player an all-time great. To me, he really doesn’t have the overall skills and talent of the above-mentioned players, not to mention the package of size and skills of a Sampson. But he does play as hard or harder. I’ll certainly give him credit for that.
By Jake Cook
January 12, 2009 10:36 PM | Link to this
Let’s not forget Luke Harangody of Notre Dame. 24.5 PPG, 12.7 RPG in a very competitive Big East…plus, he’s had to succeed in life despite carrying the surname “Harangody”.
I hope Hansbrough doesn’t get drafted and is relegated to selling insurance in the Triangle…
By Bill
January 12, 2009 10:37 PM | Link to this
sp-feel
By JOEBRAVE
January 12, 2009 10:40 PM | Link to this
Ex Braves fan,please stay just that EX Braves Fan, The Team surely does’nt need you!!!
Random, what’s wrong did I beat you to the blog before you finished your Fruity Pebbles???
I just simply stated give Hanson a crack at the rotation!!! Why? because I would rather NOT see another old @ss geezer like Glavine take precious innings away from a better option albeit a kid in this case!!!
I really don’t think you want to debate Braves history with me CLOWN!!!
DOB, loved the retort about the trade scenario,…
On to Mr.Wren, my stance on him has softened over the past few days, however he must cut the cord to the past,and make this team younger and more competetive…
I do think however that Lowe is just what the doctor is ordering.
By David O'Brien
January 12, 2009 10:41 PM | Link to this
Regarding the Mets’ offer to Perez, I do think that could lessen the likelihood that the Mets make a stronger offer for Lowe — unless, of course, Perez turns them down, which at this points seems unlikely given the market that’s failed to materialize for him, at least so far.
By David O'Brien
January 12, 2009 10:44 PM | Link to this
Jake, I’m with you on Harangody — he’s making a case for POY consideration, for sure. Going to be interesting this year. They’re just getting into conference play, so it obviously won’t be decided for quite some time. But I just like that there’s several outstanding players in the conversation this year, including guys from very good teams.
But to me, Blake Griffin is the best player so far this season.
By Wayne in Utah
January 12, 2009 10:52 PM | Link to this
Haven’t been able to read all the posts tonight, but it sure is nice to not hear all the snipping at the Braves bench. Another reason to NOT try to fit a square peg into a round hole (Prado to the starting lineup).
Omar, nitraM, Ross, Diaz, Norton and one of the bobsy twins-maybe (Anderson or Blanco). That’s a decent bench.
I wouldn’t be overly surprised if one of those guys gets dealt in a deal before the season begins, maybe for the banger or the pitcher, if Lowe doesn’t join up.
Good to hear that the offer was presented to Lowe on Friday. Dave, did you get any sense of a timeframe from Scott Boras when you talked with him?
What to make of the offer to Perez? Does that mean that they are giving up on the prospects of getting Lowe??
I really don’t see the reason for Boras to wait too much longer. Sometimes if you drap them out too long, when your suitors are limited, you could be left as the one without a chair when the music stops.
With the dynamics of the economy, this FA season is playing out to be extremely interesting.
As for Michael Young, as Nancy Reagan said, “Just say no!”
Dave Is there any news on some of our other arbitration eligible players? There is a lot of benefit in coming to an agreement with the player before getting before the arbiter.
By JOEBRAVE
January 12, 2009 10:53 PM | Link to this
I can almost see it now, Random spilling his Fruity Pebbles, standing in the kitchen with milk all over the front of his nice new shirt, and the wife walks in as says what happened???
Random abusedly retort that sonofa…. Joebrave beat me to the mornin blog!!!
All the while not realizing that the milk is slowly staining that stupid golf shirt he is wearing!!!
Later the other thing he does’nt realixe is happenng,as he is on the golf course (stupidly I might add) the wifey is spending some of the savings on a rendezvous!!!
Keep it up fat@ss, sooner or later it will happen,it always does, while you’re out circle jerking your divorced golfing buddies, guess what she’s doin!!!
You idyllic self-centered egomaniacs never cease to amaze me!!
By BlakeV
January 12, 2009 10:54 PM | Link to this
Is it just me, or is anyone else worried that the offer that is still sitting on Frank’s desk has something to do with Tommy Hanson or Jeff Locke? I hope I’m wrong and on the idea of Hanson in the rotation, not yet, let it play out and we could be watching him for the next 7 years
By Savannah Guy
January 12, 2009 10:55 PM | Link to this
An opinion from a John Smoltz, Tom Glavine, Chipper Jones, Hank Aaron, Greg Maddux, Atlanta Braves fan:
The Dubious John Smoltz Albatross
I have a little philosophical baseball bone to pick, not with any particular individual here on this blog per se, but with the avalanche of negative sentiment regarding “the ego of Smoltz”. Lately the lemmings have been in full force, doing what they do so well.
It’s almost as though the JS inspired, Wren executed Braves franchise spin machine has unleashed a story that can only work to the advantage of Frank Wren and the Braves management and diminish John Smoltz. I’m not buying it for one second.
Whether it was wisdom or folly letting Smoltz go (or Smoltz going) as awkwardly as it turned out can be argued on both sides by reasonable people. However, I believe that bringing “ego” into the argument is being shallow, unfair to Smoltz and is a red herring, missing the point of the issue… I really do.
It seems that the ego albatross has been hung and padlocked around Smoltzy’s neck, which is unfair, uncalled for and just happens to be very convenient for Wren and company. I’m not saying that Wren’s PR machine is responsible, but it does suit them just fine.
Look at how many of you “Braves fans” have instantly turned on John Smoltz, the consummate warrior for so many years. Say what you will about the negotiating situation, surmise all you want about who did what to whom in the ‘he said, he said’ scenarios and calculate until your fingers bleed, the dollar amount offered vs. value expected vs. what Smoltz staying could have meant in incremental revenue, wins, “good will”, pitcher recruiting, player trust and fan appreciation… even if he never threw a single pitch in 2009.
The money we would have spent on Smoltz would not have made one single difference in whether we could also sign another ace and a big bat in LF. None. None whatsoever! The view of “either keep and pay Smoltz or make the team younger and better so we can win in 09” is either narrow or disingenuous… or stupid.
It’s not a well-reasoned argument to take a simple math approach and say that any money that went to Smoltz would be less for another arm or a bat. That’s fair. Simple and shortsighted, but fair. The difference in money was $2-3 million. In baseball terms, that’s chump change. Simple black and white perspective about saving the money is ludicrous. But to throw John’s ego into the conversation just adds emotion and slander into the situation.
I’m still scratching my head about how so many “Braves fans” could even go there. Perhaps there’s a certain naiveté or ignorance around what we expect from those that excel in sports.
Now, if one thinks that Smoltz had the kind of bloated, narcissistic, overwhelming ego that goes beyond the norm for superstars and that Smoltz was completely unmanageable, that’s another issue… but that is not the case. I challenge anyone to prove otherwise.
Further, what has ego got to do with anything? Ego is relative. Ego is measured by degrees and by people that bring their own ego into the equation. What normal, functional human being doesn’t have an ego? What major league ace doesn’t have ego?
Hell, Wickman had an ego the size of his Sumo suit. Scheurholz, Wren, Cox and Pendelton have egos. Glavine and Maddux had healthy egos. Want more? Cy Young and Christy Mathewson had egos, as did Koufax, Drysdale, Aaron, Mantle, Ruth, Gehrig, DiMaggio, all of your favorite players and certainly all HOF players.
So, when you put a value judgment on the Wren-Smoltz argument, try to show a modicum of respect for John Smoltz and refrain from ego as an issue, because it’s not. Even if it were, Wren and Smoltz would have canceled that issue out with each other. If Wren didn’t try harder to sign Smoltz because of his own ego or John’s, then he should be fired as quickly as he got fired from the Orioles for being such a jerk to Cal Ripken and others.
Read the prior Orioles press releases and reports on the behavior demonstrated by Wren before he was fired by Baltimore and then argue your point if you are a Wren supporter, a Scheurholz apologist, a Liberty bottom-line believer or a simpleton that goes along with throwing the baby out with the bath water.
People, there’s a lot more to baseball and this situation than simple math, rigid stats, rules of thumb about dismissing Cy Young winning, HOF bound, loyal, lifelong franchise stars when they have surgery, one more year to play and the city and fans love them, come to see them and buy jerseys with their name on the back… big ego and all.
Otherwise, baseball is nothing more than horse racing and betting the odds… and we know what happens to horses that are retired. Hey, if you think the move by Wren and the Braves was a good one, fine… but I’ll just ask you folks to show some respect for the good guy that was a major reason your team saw the postseason all those years.
That has to be worth something, even to the “just shoot the horse now because we’ve already won the Tournament of Roses” crowd.
By Interested Observer
January 12, 2009 10:56 PM | Link to this
Red Sox/Smoltz press conference 10 am tomorrow. ESPNews says it will carry it. It might be on MLB TV as well.
By Brandonc
January 12, 2009 10:59 PM | Link to this
Did anybody else just see Andruw on Fox 5 News? He was at Turner Field today with Chipper and Mac taking batting practice saying he wants to be a Brave. Wren better not even THINK about letting him take a spot, unless he’s willing to platoon and even then I wouldn’t be comfortable with him. If Wren gives Bobby the opportunity, you know Bobby is going to let him start. I still say Schafer needs to be given a shot in CF.
And I’m glad they already gave Lowe an offer because I was getting worried that Atlanta was stalling for some reason.
By AustinBraves
January 12, 2009 11:01 PM | Link to this
Did you see the Foxsport video of Andrew. He sure looks slim. I hope he becomes come back player of the year with or without the Braves, But I hope he becomes a Brave.
By ryc30078
January 12, 2009 11:02 PM | Link to this
DOB. What would it take for the Braves to acquire Roy Oswalt from the Astros?
By Wayne in Utah
January 12, 2009 11:03 PM | Link to this
BlakeV It could involve Locke, but FW has been pretty steadfast on not including Hanson, Heyward, and Freeman in any deals (and probably 2-3 other guys).
By Jake Cook
January 12, 2009 11:03 PM | Link to this
I agree. Blake Griffin is definitely tops in the NCAA at this point, and it’s hard to see anyone else being quite as dominant.
I’m glad that Joey Dorsey got the best of him last year, because Memphis is thin down low this season…and the fact that the Tigers don’t face the Sooners this year helps more than anything.
As long as it’s not “Psycho-T”, I’m fine. Nothing against the kid personally, but the media’s love fest for Hansbrough is too much for me to take for an entire season.
UNCLE!
By Mike
January 12, 2009 11:04 PM | Link to this
Did anyone see the link on MLBTR about Andrew Jones? It has a link to a video of him in the batting cage with Chipper and BMac. He has definitely lost some weight and seems to have shortened his batting stance a bit. It was just in the cage so who knows. I would take a cheap flyer on him and see if he will listen to TP and see what hes got in the spring. He knows that this is probably his last chance to keep playing. Maybe the familiar confines of the Ted will help him out. I would however Not make him our “Big Bat” LF acquisition.
By mets fan in atlanta
January 12, 2009 11:08 PM | Link to this
Haha, yall are crazy…if you really think that Moylan, Soriano, and Gonzalez will hold up and produce for even 2/3’s of a season. Moylan has done NOTHING to make any of you think that he will do anything this season after being out the equivalent of a full season. He pitched in the WBC, signed with the Braves, and yall think he is the second coming of Mo Rivera.
Soriano has also done nothing to make anyone think he can be a good relief pitcher. He’s constantly hurt, he choked when the chips were down season before last, and he lost his closer’s job to….
Gonzalez, who (when healthy) is a good pitcher, but no one that the league is worried about, has about 40 career saves, and finished last season with an ERA above 4.
I called it on here last year (about this time) that your great bullpen would fail ….remember Manny Acosta…..the blog thought he was the next coming of John Wetteland after he pitched a grand total of 23 innings in 07.
Funny, the Mets acknowledged their terrible bullpen, got rid of Heilman and Schoenweiss, and added Putz and Rodriguez. The Braves acknowledged their terrible bullpen by…….wishing, and hoping, and praying, and thinking that maybe Ohman will get resigned. haha
By AustinBraves
January 12, 2009 11:11 PM | Link to this
At least Andrew has loyalty unlike a couple of other ex Braves I know.
By Wayne in Utah
January 12, 2009 11:12 PM | Link to this
it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, Signifying nothing.
By FarmerJohn
January 12, 2009 11:19 PM | Link to this
…
By csg
January 12, 2009 11:22 PM | Link to this
Mets fans = choke artist, just like their players
By richbrave
January 12, 2009 11:23 PM | Link to this
Good move by management to strengthen the club by signing INFANTE to a new deal. Longer term - 2 years. So the bench now has ROSS and NORTON on new contracts also. PRADO and BLANCO were new last year. We’re good for the moment on the bench.
By Random
January 12, 2009 11:25 PM | Link to this
Anders —
I believe all the reports of Putz’ antipathy to setting up predated the actual trade. (See below.)
However, when the finger was actually pulled, this was the song he was singing to ESPN.com:
“Before the trade was announced, Putz’s agent, Craig Landis, said the right-hander wanted to remain a closer. But Minaya said he spoke with Putz, who was excited about his new team and role.
“”It’s a new challenge and I’m excited about it,” Putz said, according to the Seattle Times. “I’m going to a new team that’s going to be very competitive. Frankie’s a great closer and with Sean Green going as well, we should have a great bullpen.”“
Looks to me that everybody above was right, and also that you are vindicated.
PS: FWIW, Putz also said (again, before the trade to the Mets, when Detroit was trying hard to get him):
““If you would have told me 20 years ago, I had (a) chance to pitch for the Tigers, I would have said, ‘Heck yeah,’” Putz told the Tacoma (Wash.) News Tribune. “But I’ve been with the Mariners my whole career and it’s where I want to be.””
By Homeboy
January 12, 2009 11:31 PM | Link to this
That has to be worth something, even to the “just shoot the horse now because we’ve already won the Tournament of Roses” crowd. SavGuy
how much is Smoltz paying you for all these BS posts claiming his perfection? It was his decision to leave. He threw away 20 years for next to nothing
By Wayne in Utah
January 12, 2009 11:43 PM | Link to this
Watching the press confernece tomorrow will be bitter-sweet. On the one hand, I will miss John Smoltz. On the other hand, he is a hard person not to pull for.
I have had many favorite Braves players over the past 40+ years: Eddie Mathews, Hank Aaron, Phil Neikro, Darrell Evans, Dale Murphy, John Smoltz and Chipper Jones.
If Chipper ends up finishing his career out with the Braves, he will be in rarified air.
Good luck Smoltzie! When it is time to come back (either as a player or in another capacity), we will welcome you back with open arms. Go get that second ring!
By THE BEAR
January 12, 2009 11:46 PM | Link to this
Savannah: * *So, when you put a value judgment on the Wren-Smoltz argument, try to show a modicum of respect for John Smoltz * *
If Smoltz had shown a modicum of respect for the Braves Front Office he might have seen things differently. A decent offer was made to him based on performance. He declined. The decision was Smoltz’s. He was not thrown overboard; he jumped overboard.
Now tie your high horse to that nearest rail and try to settle down. The Braves could have paid him $5.5 million for not throwing a single pitch but they already paid him $14 million last year for picthing 28 innings. I do believe those charity affairs should stop sometime.
And they could pay Glavine another $5 million and that would have totaled 10% of the Braves total budget and for what? They can buy a heck of a good outfielder for that money.
Wren is paid to put a good team on the field. He tried the “old man approach” last year and look at what it got us.
Smoltz is gone and if the Braves begin winning he will be forgotten in short order just like he has decided to forget Atlanta. As a matter of fact as a fan I don’t appreciate him tossing me overboard.
By Random
January 12, 2009 11:47 PM | Link to this