AJC > Sports > Braves > Blog > Archives > 2008 > December > 16 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USMight Furcal move trigger another trade?
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
To make their first major move this winter, the Braves called on an old friend. Now, will signing Rafael Furcal — assuming they get that done — trigger another, possibly bigger move?
And hey, if you’re going to have a lineup regular with back issues, I guess you might as well make it a cannon-armed shortstop who’s one of the best leadoff hitters in the league.
That way, it’ll provide us with a guarantee of big stories, either about Rafael Furcal’s triumphant return to Atlanta to win Comeback Player of the Year award and lead the Braves back to the postseason, or about what a questionable move it was to bring him here after his back gives out in spring training, or — and this is probably more likely — something in between those extremes.
We’re assuming you all have heard that the Braves seem to be on the verge of signing Furcal, 31, though they haven’t announced anything and won’t until after he passes a physical Wednesday or Thurday. Considering he had back surgery in July, that’s not the given that it is in most of these cases, but I’d be surprised if he doesn’t pass it.
(There was also word this afternoon from Furcal’s agent, Paul Kinzer, that nothing had been finalized yet, that the Dodgers were still going to have a chance to surpass the Braves offer, though L.A. GM Ned Colletti has indicated three years might be his limit on Furcal; the Dodgers had offered two plus a vesting option. If they don’t surpass the Braves’ offer, I can’t see Furcal turning down chance to return to Atlanta, where he loved everything about his experience here and still has a lot of friends on the team and/or living in the area around his suburban Atlanta home.)
(Oh, and just so you know, his surgery was a procedure similar to the one that Mark Kotsay had in March 2007, and we saw Kotsay play very well early last season for the Braves before going on the DL for more than a month due to a recurrence of back issues.)
So, assuming Furcal passes his physical and signs the three-year deal with a vesting option, then what’s next for the Bravos?
First, let me say it’s a move that gives them an offensive catalyst who sparks a lineup and drives pitchers nuts on the bases, a serious stolen-base threat (provided the back allows it these days). Braves just haven’t had that type of guy since he left.
But are they getting him to play SS or 2B? He’s only played one game at second base in the past six seasons, and my first reaction is, he ain’t ready to move there permanently at age 31, where his cannon arm would seem almost wasted.
On the other hand, a double-play combo of Yunel Escobar and Rafael Furcal would be potentially one of the most athletic, dynamic keystone combos you’d ever see, not to mention perhaps the strongest couple of arms any middle infield ever featured.
But would the Braves really be bringing back Furcal if they planned on keeping Escobar? I have doubts. Sure, they could just trade 2B Kelly Johnson or move him to left field, but given the doubts that Bobby Cox and Frank Wren have expressed about K.J. moving back to the outfield, I don’t know.
Trade Kelly? Yeah, they could, but I haven’t heard him connected to any trade rumors this winter involving a top starting pitcher.
The only reason that makes more sense is because of Furcal’s back and the fact that Martin Prado’s best position is second base. Follow me here: Braves trade Kelly Johnson and play Furcal at second base. Then if he gets hurt, they plug in Prado.
Or they play Furcal at shortstop and Escobar at second base (I wonder how Yunel would greet that move?), then if Furcal gets hurt they move Escobar back to SS and plug Prado in at 2B. In that scenario, the Braves could trade Kelly or move him to left field to be the run-producing OF they haven’t been able to acquire yet this winter.
Oh, the intrigue.
An Escobar trade, though, seems more likely. We’ve all heard the rumors this winter, including the big one that consumed the Braves for more than six weeks, the Jake Peavy debacle … er, negotiations, with the San Diego Padres.
Talked to someone in San Diego late last night who still had doubts whether Peavy would even waive his no-trade clause to come to Atlanta, despite the fact the Alabama native had the Braves on his initial list of five teams he wouldn’t mind being traded to.
Maybe Jake’s reported concerns about going to a team that was Escobar-less and might not be able to compete in the East would be alleviated by the addition of Furcal? I don’t know. With Jake, does anybody know other than his agent?
But as I’ve said all along, the Peavy-to-Braves deal makes too much sense for both teams to let anything other than a Peavy refusal prevent it from happening. I still feel that way, despite Sandy Alderson telling the San Diego Union-Tribune last night that they anticipate having Peavy on opening day.
The other big pitcher the Braves have talked to with Escobar in the mix was Zack Greinke of the Royals, but K.C. seems reluctant to deal him. Still, he’s gone from Kansas City in two years as a free agent, almost certainly. So if Royals GM Dayton Moore might realize a deal for a potential All-Star shortstop (and yes, Escobar is just that, folks, particularly in the American League) who’d be under contractual control for a few more years makes sense.
But we’ll see.
In the meantime, there’s no doubt the Braves just got a lot better in the leadoff role, provided Furcal is healthy.
They haven’t made the postseason for three years since Furcal left (and they made it every season while he was here). He’s hardly the only reason for that, as pitching injuries and budget constraints undermined the Braves.
But the Furcal departure after 2005 left a hole the Braves have had mixed results filling. At times, the likes of Escobar, K.J. and Gregor Blanco did fine for a week here, even a month there, in the leadoff role.
But over the course of a season, none have come close to the leadoff man that Furcal was, with his speed/power combo to go with a healthy OBP and ability to work counts and give hitters behind him a good, early look at a pitcher’s stuff.
Furcal, 31, has a .286 career average and .352 on-base percentage with 83 homers, 788 runs, 418 RBI and 259 stolen bases in 1,150 games.
He played only 37 games during the 2008 season, but had a .357 average with 19 extra-base hits including five homers, 16 RBI and eight stolen bases, along with a .439 OBP, his highest since his .394 in his 2000 Rookie of the Year season.
Furcal played in each of the Dodgers’ first 32 games, and didn’t return until the last week of the season. The Dodgers were 18-14 with him playing in those first 32 games, then lost five of six games and 24 of the next 37 without him.
He hit .285 with a .348 OBP and 100 stolen bases in 453 games in his last three seasons with the Braves through 2005, and hit .293 with a .362 OBP and 70 steals in 333 games over the past three seasons.
He’s posted better numbers than ever in the past three seasons - when he’s played. Problem is that he’s played 138 and 36 games in the past two seasons, after playing 154 or more in four of the previous five seasons.
Here’s how his replacements have fallen short of filling Furcal’s shoes:
Last year with the Dodgers, he hit .353 with a .434 OBP in 139 at-bats as a leadoff man. Juan Pierre was the only Dodger with as many as 200 at-bats in the role, and Pierre hit .261 with a .293 OBP.
(For the Braves in 2008, Escobar hit .285 with a .358 OBP in 158 at-bats in the leadoff role; Gregor Blanco hit .252 with a strong .371 OBP in a team-high 234 at-bats in the role, but had 51 strikeouts and only nine extra-base hits for a .299 slugging percentage.)
In Furcal’s last season with the Braves in 2005, he hit .285 with a .348 OBP and 54 extra-base hits (12 homers) and 58 RBI in 615 at-bats in the leadoff role. No other Braves player had more than 22 at-bats at leadoff that year.
In 2005, Braves leadoff hitters ranked third in the league in runs (113), average (.295) and slugging (.439), and fourth in OBP (.439).
In 2008, Braves leadoff hitters were tied for 12th in runs (94) and ranked 11th in average (.273), 14th in slugging (.375) and tied for third in OBP (.356).
Furcal will be welcome back with open arms at the top of the order. Now just cross your fingers and hope his back holds up.
Let’s hope the pictures from Furcal’s X-rays or MRI look better than pictures of Tony Curtis’ (allegedly) surgically enhanced face in those ClearChoice Dental Implant Center newspaper ads where he’s wearing a beret.
”THE MOON’S A HARSH MISTRESS” by Jimmy Webb
See her how she flies
Golden sails across the sky
Close enough to touch
But careful if you try
Though she looks as warm as gold
The moon’s a harsh mistress
The moon can be so cold
Once the sun did shine
Lord, it felt so fine
The moon a phantom rose
Through the mountains and the pines
And then the darkness fell
And the moon’s a harsh mistress
It’s so hard to love her well
I fell out of her eyes
I fell out of her heart
I fell down on my face
Yes, I did, and I — I tripped and I missed my star
God, I fell and I fell alone, I fell alone
And the moon’s a harsh mistress
And the sky is made of stone
The moon’s a harsh mistress
She’s hard to call your own.
Comments
By dgd
December 16, 2008 10:42 AM | Link to this
Signing Furcal is a gamble, but not as much of one as inking a pitcher to a five or seven year contract. Besides, Bobby loves Fookie……
By Josh from Columubs
December 16, 2008 10:42 AM | Link to this
First? Roy Halladay, please come to Atlanta!
By KW
December 16, 2008 10:43 AM | Link to this
About time we had some action — this team needs a shot in the arm, and more than RF can give us. Lets hold our opinions until we see what Wren’s next move is — might be interesting.
By InCognito
December 16, 2008 10:45 AM | Link to this
How about a rabbit out of the old magic hat and a Halladay trade? With the weakening of the Canadian dollar, the fact that the Jays are not going to compete, and that I love to dream big; why not?
By Lee in S GA
December 16, 2008 10:46 AM | Link to this
maybe 1st - good pick-up in Furcal
By eddie
December 16, 2008 10:46 AM | Link to this
having Furcal back fixes a major hole on the roster..no true leadoff hitter which is almost as important as the big bat in the middle. KJ is a good #2 as is Yunel but neither was a true #1 kinda like grissom was a better 2 than 1 hole hitter. the lineup just got better in a key spot
By Train Wreck Bystander
December 16, 2008 10:47 AM | Link to this
Yes, Atlanta, there is a Santa Claus.
By Matt
December 16, 2008 10:47 AM | Link to this
I think we should kill the idea of going after Peavy. It seems like we would have to give up Morton, and I think Morton ahs the ability to be a solid 3/4 starter.
Go after Zack Greinke and hope for the best with him.
By Mark
December 16, 2008 10:47 AM | Link to this
DOB,
Looks like you’re saying either we trade for Peavy or Grienke. No other possibilities? If i had the choice it would be Peavy, more years under control and a better salary than Grienke would command later on. Do the Braves move towards pitching first or for OF help?
By DannyFish
December 16, 2008 10:48 AM | Link to this
Hopefully the news of Fookie playing 2nd in winter ball means we make a deal for an ace without dealing Yunel…but I doubt it.
By matsane
December 16, 2008 10:48 AM | Link to this
Sign Perez and let’s call it a winter.
By Oasisbraves
December 16, 2008 10:49 AM | Link to this
YES!!
Go Back and GET PEAVY!!!
By FlaN8ive
December 16, 2008 10:49 AM | Link to this
Sounds like the gears of trade are still a turning.
By SeaAtl
December 16, 2008 10:49 AM | Link to this
Weird thing is that the LA Times isn’t reporting or even mentioning this trade. Their blogger’s last mention of F******* was last night & still had him going to the A’s….? If he’s coming back to ATL - great, exciting news. Makes me very curious what would be next - I don’t see how a guy Furcal’s age with the ROCKET arm he has would be a good fit moving to 2nd. Could/would Escobar move over there? Doesn’t seem as likely as Escobar getting traded, though - that would be partly disappointing, but likely necessary to get the #1 pitcher so many here have been bellyaching for these past few weeks.
By Nate
December 16, 2008 10:49 AM | Link to this
Keep you fingers crossed everybody.
By zstipe
December 16, 2008 10:49 AM | Link to this
DOB, I just have a feeling that we could have found a trading partner that we haven’t even heard rumored. Just seems like the style of the Braves front office, close to the vest. However, I agree that Peavy just makes too much sense. I really think, though, that we can consider almost every team with a significant need at SS and a frontline starter to be consider an option at this point. Thoughts?
By Mark
December 16, 2008 10:49 AM | Link to this
Oh yea by the way Crasnick says its official:
[text to be linked]http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3772806
By Bravosimos
December 16, 2008 10:50 AM | Link to this
Yes!
By Eric B
December 16, 2008 10:50 AM | Link to this
By E-Money
December 16, 2008 9:32 AM | Link to this
“I just heard on ESPN Radio that the subsequent move by the Braves following the Furcal signing may involve a trade with Toronto. The rumored players in the trade may be Yunel, Charlie Morton, Gorkys Hernandez, Brandon Jones and an additional minor league pitcher for Roy Halliday and Alex Rios”
man would I love for that rumour to be true…
By 35YrBravesFan
December 16, 2008 10:50 AM | Link to this
Sign Fookie, get Peavy. Simple. Do it.
By Sooth
December 16, 2008 10:50 AM | Link to this
Thanks for the new blog. Seems like a move you would only make if another deal was already lined up, hopefully for more than Greinke.
By Bubdylan
December 16, 2008 10:51 AM | Link to this
Is bringing up the blog first thing in the morning - before coffee - something like the morning-beer red flag of an alcoholic?
By Joe M.
December 16, 2008 10:51 AM | Link to this
Thinking about this, I’m convinced it is Escobar and not Johnson who will be traded (and make no mistake, if Furcal signs, one is those two is gone.)
If they were trading Johnson, they’d just have put Prado there. Admittedly Prado ain’t nothing great, but he’d be cheap and a lot more economical than Furcal. Prado is not trusted by this team as SS and Infante is a bench player.
I’m pretty sure Yunel Escobar’s days in Atlanta are numbered right now.
By Smack
December 16, 2008 10:52 AM | Link to this
Let’s hope this thing spins into an ace!
By toddh
December 16, 2008 10:52 AM | Link to this
i think wren is done with towers. this was completed for a seperate deal altogether. not sure with who but i’m thinking the braves had something else worked out because the padres wanted too much. nice to see the braves rockin & rollin.
By chopper2chipper
December 16, 2008 10:52 AM | Link to this
I’m really looking forward to having a true catalyst at the top of the linup again. Welcome home, Fookie!
By The one and only
December 16, 2008 10:53 AM | Link to this
Good job Frank Wren!
By StingerSplash
December 16, 2008 10:54 AM | Link to this
Re: the Tony Curtis commercial
Didn’t. Need. That. Visual. Especially right before lunch. Thanks a lot.
By quint
December 16, 2008 10:54 AM | Link to this
Could the Braves get Furcal at SS,move Escobar to 2B, trade KJ, and wait for Chipper to go on the DL? That would make sense to me. Then you could move Raffy or Yunel to third and bring in Prado. What do y’all think? Am I out of my mind?
By mountain_jim
December 16, 2008 10:55 AM | Link to this
Concerning today’s lyric, I wonder where the phrase “The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress” orginated. Without googling, I assume it was Robert Heinlein’s excellent Hugo winning novel of that title, in which case this song title is a steal, unless credited to the SF author.
By ccrider
December 16, 2008 10:55 AM | Link to this
I hope that if there is a deal for a pitcher, and it’s Greinke, the Braves will do everything possible to sign him to an extension. Trading Escobar, Gorky, and some combo of Morton, Reyes, Locke for 2 years of Greinke could be another Texiera trade down the road. Personally, if the Braves trade Kelly Johnson, I would love to see an expanded trade to St. Louis KJ, Soriano(they need a closer), Gorky and Reyes for Ankiel and Ludwick. St. Louis could replace them with some of the many free agents outfileders available. We would replace Soriano with Juan Cruz or someone from the free agent pool. Furcal, Ankiel, Chipper, Ludwick, McCann, Escobar, Kotchman, Franceour. Sign another free agent starter and pound teams to death with our offense: It worked for the Phillies last year.
By Bubdylan
December 16, 2008 10:56 AM | Link to this
KW, hold our opinions until we see what it all means? First time blogger?
By David-ATL14
December 16, 2008 10:56 AM | Link to this
Great move by FW.
Best offensive player out there outside of Tex and Manny. far better to spend money on Furcal than some of the slugs likeBurrell and Dunn.
For now time to step to the podium and say Furcal is our 2B and leadoff hitter. esco is our SS and KJ is our LF. The if soemthing presents itself that is a good deal for the braves we can move then.
By Bill in ATL
December 16, 2008 10:56 AM | Link to this
I’m happy no matter which direction this moves takes us in terms of personnel for 2009.
If he is going to play SS then it means we’ve already got a deal worked out for a #1 type starter, which means we have our leadoff hitter and a solid rotation, plus more money to sign one more OF bat, which shouldn’t be hard to do.
If he’s going to play 2B then the same likely applies, though I’d be curious which SP we will get in any deal not including Yunel.
If the signing was not linked to another move, then could we assume that they will move KJ back to LF? Even this isn’t awful, as our middle infield will be super, KJ won’t be bad in LF (offensively or defensively) and again we’ve got our leadoff man.
If he’s not healthy that certainly throws a wrench in the plans, but at least this move gives us a chance in my opinion to be better in 2009 regardless of how the move fits into the overall plan.
By Braveboi
December 16, 2008 10:56 AM | Link to this
Someone at an ESPN blog posted a possible Roy Holladay/ Alex Rios trade to braves for Escobar, Hernandez, Jones, Morton and another minor leauge pitcher. Any truth to that rumor DOB? You opinion?
By Renegator
December 16, 2008 10:57 AM | Link to this
This seems like a questionable move. But I’m glad that Wren isn’t just sitting around doing nothing. At least he is trying to improve this team both in the short and long term.
I’m not sure I understand the reasoning behind moving Escobar who is a great shortstop on the cheap for several more years. He must be in Bobby’s doghouse as some have alluded to here on the Ol’ MIB blog.
By Mark
December 16, 2008 10:57 AM | Link to this
Does this hurt the notion that has been talked about lately that Free Agents wont come to Atlanta. Here we have one coming back possibly taking less years and less money. What does that say about Atlanta?
By Braveboi
December 16, 2008 10:57 AM | Link to this
Someone at an ESPN blog posted a possible Roy Holladay/ Alex Rios trade to braves for Escobar, Hernandez, Jones, Morton and another minor league pitcher. Any truth to that rumor? Your opinion DOB?
By By KS in SC
December 16, 2008 10:57 AM | Link to this
Good to have Fookie back but hate to lose Escobar, unless we get a true #1 starter. But I don’t think Wren would make this deal if he didn’t have something in the works.
By Joe M.
December 16, 2008 10:57 AM | Link to this
CBSSports:
“The Braves were a somewhat surprising bidder for Rafael Furcal, since they already had a shortstop (Yunel Escobar) and a second baseman (Kelly Johnson).
But if Furcal does indeed sign with Atlanta, as FOXSports.com reported that he intends to do, the Braves will likely put him at second base and move Johnson to left field, according to sources familiar with their plans.”
Is this possible? The Braves signed Furcal not to trade either Escobar or Johnson, but rather will just move Johnson to left field? After all the previous denials?
By Mike
December 16, 2008 10:58 AM | Link to this
Love the move, but it only works if we get a big pitcher for Esco. i’d lov eto have Esco and Furcal, but don’t think KJ will get us the same bounty. Come on Wren…make something big happen.
By Chris from the Rock
December 16, 2008 10:59 AM | Link to this
I know this is off the subject a bit, but any chance that Diaz is slotted in as the primary backup in LF and 1B and Norton isn’t re-signed? He’s not exactly a plus defender in LF, so he couldn’t possibly be much worse at 1B. And he could be there to give Kotchman a day off against lefties here and there. It makes sense to me.
By Dan
December 16, 2008 11:01 AM | Link to this
Couldnt Kelly be packaged with Gorkys and some pitching to land an ace type pitcher?
Kelly has the potential to be one of the best hitting second baseman in the league.
I am still hoping for Peavy. One has to wonder why he has soured on the Braves after including them in his original list of five teams.
By Brad
December 16, 2008 11:02 AM | Link to this
i always liked Furcal and am glad to see him back. I however like Escobar a lot and would hate to see him leave. He is a good player now and will only get better. I can understand if the Braves deal him for a pitcher, but I personally would rather keep Escobar because he is young and can be the SS for many more years. So I would move Escobar to 2B. This would put Furcal and Escobar up the middle on defence and 1-2 in the lineup. A lot of speed at the top of the lineup.
By Josh from Columbus
December 16, 2008 11:02 AM | Link to this
Any Roy Halladay Trade Combination > Any Jake Peavy Trade Combination
I have heard rumors of Yunel Escobar, Gorkys Hernandez, other players (help me out austinbrave) for Roy Halladay and Alex Rios!
Dear Santa,
To borrow a line from Slammin’ Sammy, da Braves have been berry, berry good dis year. Gracias.
By jeanE
December 16, 2008 11:02 AM | Link to this
I think it is AWESOME!! I am so excited to have Raffy back! He is just what we need at leadoff, speed, strong arm & power, too! I’m sure his back with act up now & then but we have Prado to sub. I am not a big Yunel fan, can’t say why, just never have warmed to him. He has much more trade value than KJ so I’m still hoping this means Peavy is still a possibility…I still hope Matt Diaz can make it back to play some in left field, this could be an exciting year for the Braves! I know Smotlz will make it back, no doubt at all in my mind. As for Francoeur, it’s put up or bye bye after this season!
By Scott
December 16, 2008 11:03 AM | Link to this
Would a .270 hitter who averages 22 homers and 95 RBIs help out in the outfield? I think so, and that is what Jeff Francouer brings to the table after 3.5 years in the league. Why are so many of you bashing him when his stats show a pretty damn good ball player for his first 3 and a half years. He had a bad year last year, but I think he will bounce back.
By Jeff321
December 16, 2008 11:03 AM | Link to this
BAD MOVE! Furcal and his gimpy back are going to eat into the Braves cash reserves. And this move has Bobby Cox written all over it.
So, when Cox & Escobar are gone.. We’ll still have Furcal doing his best Mike Hampton impression.
Only in Atlanta is a manager given more power than the GM.
SHAME!
By DAP
December 16, 2008 11:03 AM | Link to this
here is the way this trade makes sense to me. furcal would need to play 2B for the braves, leaving escobar at SS. as good as furcal is, escobar is better. and, with furcal’s back, his range might begin to be limited. i think a move to 2B would be best for him, and we can still enjoy his arm on relay throws to homeplate! :-)
this makes sense since our utility infielders are mostly 2B/3B (which would be good, since furcal(2B) and chipper(3B) would be our biggest injury risks. if you play furcal at SS and trade escobar, youve got to have a bench player who can play SS fairly well. thus, i think furcal will play 2B. better for everyone.
so KJ would have to be traded, and since san diego isnt likely to take KJ instead of escobar in the package, and since KC isnt going to expect the same package that was worthy of 4 years of peavy for two years a greinke, you package KJ with a few guys for greinke. maybe you even get guillen and hope he has a comeback year. suddenly, you have a lineup of:
and your rotation looks pretty good with 1. grienke 2. smoltz 3. jurjens 4. vazquez 5. morton (or another young guy looking to cut his teeth)
By Bravosimos
December 16, 2008 11:03 AM | Link to this
DOB, If they traded kelly, wouldn’t they move esco to second instead of Furcal? And do you have any hunches about what pitcher the Braves are thinking of trading for?
By BIG MAC
December 16, 2008 11:04 AM | Link to this
Why not put Furcal in left or turn him around in a trade for Peavy? To celebrate Furcal’s return isn’t exact a party, but a solid chance to start fixing the mess Schuerholz made of our farm system by giving away way too much in trades over the last few years. I’d trade Kelly Johnson WAY before Escobar and it would be much easier to find a defensive 2b with a little punch—hey, Prado did the job last year & Infante was the most dependable hitter we had near the end of the season. At least now we know that there is a pulse in the front office.
By Mark
December 16, 2008 11:04 AM | Link to this
DOB,
Hope you have another blog idea ready to go cause this one will be down by the end of the day possibly.
By DannyFish
December 16, 2008 11:04 AM | Link to this
It’s funny how people can go from doom and gloom to rainbows and unicorn farts at the break of one move.
DOB
Have the Jays given any indication that they would or wouldn’t include Halladay in a trade??? They could use a SS but they also lost AJ this offseason so they would have a huge hole to fill.
By Dan
December 16, 2008 11:05 AM | Link to this
Yunnel, Gorkys, Charlie, Brandon, and another does not seem like enough for Hallady and Rios.
I would be wary of trading for Greinke. He is two years away from free agency and not a proven winner, although his stuff is unquestioned.
By CRM
December 16, 2008 11:05 AM | Link to this
If Furcal is coming back and, presumably, Escobar is leaving, it would have to be to get someone besides Peavy. An Escobar (et al) for Peavy deal has already been turned down by the Padres. They wanted Hanson in the deal and he is still untouchable. It has to be for Greinke or someone else.
Either way, I’m not crazy about getting a 31 year old shortstop with a bum back and letting a young stud future all-star go for a rent-a-pitcher.
I know we haven’t been very good in the lead-off slot since Furcal departed but that isn’t what’s kept us out of the playoffs. Well, at least it’s not all that’s kept us out of the playoffs. Last year, we had a revoving door rotation with no bats in the outfield. We had to trade away our only legitimate clean-up hitter and the only guy who could successfully back up Chipper. We lost our best set-up man, our best closer and our best starter. You think Furcal would have made a difference by himself? Uh, I don’t think so.
Face it. We have a lot more holes to fill than just lead-off hitter. I’m not in favor of this acquisition. I will say, though, that I hope I’m proven wrong.
By Run Heap Run
December 16, 2008 11:06 AM | Link to this
When I first heard this news I was surprised..it will be interesting to see how this one plays out.
By BO..........
December 16, 2008 11:07 AM | Link to this
If the rumored Halliday Rios to Atlanta is a remote possibility. then this is one worth breaking the bank on. the big if is what are the legenths of there contracts. this could be the blockbuster of the year. put us at the top of divison.
By brent a.
December 16, 2008 11:07 AM | Link to this
Furcal’s DUI was before the 2004 play-offs, IIRC. I think the article says it was before the 2005 play-offs.
We lost to the Astros both years, in spite of home field advantage, so it gets confusing - and depressing.
By Lew
December 16, 2008 11:08 AM | Link to this
XM and everyone else has been reporting this as a done deal pending the physical. I sure hope his back will not be the lingering issue that I fear it may be.
It will be interesting to see what else Wren has up his proverbial sleeve. Something’s going on, that’s for sure-otherwise this deal makes little sense. I can’t see them signing Furcal unless some other deal was pending for Yunel or Johnson.
By Hans_Blix
December 16, 2008 11:08 AM | Link to this
What’s this love for Greinke. He was 13-10 last year with a 3.48 ERA. Toronto could use Escobar and they had the best pitching in the majors last year. Although, the Blue Jay philosophy is to keep all pitching - they might be persuaded to give up Jesse Litsch (13- 9 with a 3.57 ERA) and Adam Lind a prime young left fielder in a trade for Escobar.
By Jaye
December 16, 2008 11:08 AM | Link to this
With McCann thinner and Fookie potentially coming back, perhaps we can finally have some active speed on the base paths. So far, we’ve had the ability in the younger players, but not the execution. Let’s Go Braves! Here’s to, AT LEAST, an exciting season ahead!
By Lee in S GA
December 16, 2008 11:09 AM | Link to this
Not that any Braves fan was really counting on Blanco or Anderson for anything but do they truly have any value to the Braves anymore? Guess the fans in Gwinnett can watch them play this season, providing they are still around, because I just don’t see either one making the Braves team now. Yes things are looking brighter in just 24 hrs.
By VaBravesfan
December 16, 2008 11:10 AM | Link to this
It wouldn’t surprise me if Escobar got traded. He seemed to fall out of favor with Bobby Cox toward the end of last year. It would be fun to watch a throwing contest between Furcal and Escobar.
By P. Rose
December 16, 2008 11:10 AM | Link to this
I Walk The Line
by Rafael Furcal
I keep a close watch on that car behind
I keep my own car straight between the lines
I only had two beers and so I’m fine
Can’t be confined
I walk the line
Those flashing lights are very, very blue
My cruise control was set on ninety-two
I’ll touch my fingers to my nose for you
To show I’m fine
I’ll walk the line
As sure as night is dark and day is light
The Braves will bail me out this very night
And I got forty million reasons why
Because they’re mine,
I walk the line
Now it’s the ninth and we’re one run behind
I’m at the plate and here’s the pitcher’s wind
I tapped it weakly, now to first I’ll grind
I hurt my spine
I walk the line
By SeaAtl
December 16, 2008 11:11 AM | Link to this
Joe M. - that CBS report surprises me. I’m no expert, but one thing a 2nd baseman DOESN’T need is a rocket arm, which is what Furcal has/is. Plus he’s a bit older than Escobar. Wonder why the Braves wouldn’t move Escobar to 2nd instead. That all would be great, but I still think personally that Escobar will be traded. Finally some Braves hot stove news - and good news at that!
By JJMac
December 16, 2008 11:11 AM | Link to this
SeaAtl: This wouldn’t be a trade. It would be a free agent signing. Just some FYI.
By Jim
December 16, 2008 11:11 AM | Link to this
I think I was first a few days ago to wonder why Raffy hadn’t signed with anyone yet and was seemingly waiting to make a deal with Bs. A few others wondered the same - correctly. Now, suppose Halladay-Rios for Escobar, etc. is ready to be announded. Fabulous. But even with this, there’s still an opportunity to do a Francoeur, etc. for Grienke deal. Remember, Rios is a RF. If Bs could get Halladay and Grienke could they live with Furcal at SS and Prado at 2B? Methinks so.
By Ghost of Shane Vendrell
December 16, 2008 11:12 AM | Link to this
In the words of Bill Walton, Horrible Horrible Signing. So are genius GM thinks we need to sign a 31 year old guy with a bad back for about 11 mil a year, who plays a position we already have somebody better at who costs virtually nothing for 5 years. Yeah….
But of course Escobar has “attitude problems”. In other words he actually has fire and shows it, not just sitting there with his mouth shut until he can go play a round of golf with the boys. I was so happy to finally have a player that showed some emotion, so umph if you will, but I guess that is a big no no in the Braves organization.
Of course this is all based on the fact that they trade Escobar, which Frank Wren has apparently made it his life mission to accomplish. That, and getting the Braves to a first round exit in the playoffs.
By LT-A blogger
December 16, 2008 11:12 AM | Link to this
Anything but Jake “Go Cubs Go” Peavy.
By JR
December 16, 2008 11:12 AM | Link to this
That trade rumor with Toronto just makes no sense for Toronto unless they are shedding payroll. Halladay is arguably one of the top 3 pitchers in baseball and although highly over paid Rios is a nice talent. Francouer could be added to that scenario to make it more believable, but I doubt it. Halladay would be too good to be true.
By don
December 16, 2008 11:13 AM | Link to this
Wonderful. Now Furcal can be the next Mike Hampton.
Some days I feel guilty for calling Wren a fool. Today is not one of those days. He is also dangerous.
By This Gets Old
December 16, 2008 11:13 AM | Link to this
As I’ve said before the Braves need to bite the bullet and rebuild. The Mets in the 90’s kept thinking one or two trades plus a free agent would get them there. I just don’t see any sense in getting OLDER.
Even if we got Furcal and Peavy is that going to put us ahead of the Marlins? Let’s face facts, that’s who we’re chasing, the Marlins.
Is Kelly going to be less of a streaky hitter because we got Furcal? Jeff going to bounce back and be a productive hitter? Kotchman we don’t know how he’ll play for us. I wouldn’t give up a future All-Star for a former one with a bad back. Let’s keep it real.
By JR
December 16, 2008 11:13 AM | Link to this
That trade rumor with Toronto just makes no sense for Toronto unless they are shedding payroll. Halladay is arguably one of the top 3 pitchers in baseball and although highly over paid Rios is a nice talent. Francouer could be added to that scenario to make it more believable, but I doubt it. Halladay would be too good to be true.
By Lew
December 16, 2008 11:13 AM | Link to this
quint-Probably, but that just gives you creds here in MIB blogland. Insanity is a good fit here.
By Ghost of Shane Vendrell
December 16, 2008 11:13 AM | Link to this
In the words of Bill Walton, Horrible Horrible Signing. So are genius GM thinks we need to sign a 31 year old guy with a bad back for about 11 mil a year, who plays a position we already have somebody better at who costs virtually nothing for 5 years. Yeah….
But of course Escobar has “attitude problems”. In other words he actually has fire and shows it, not just sitting there with his mouth shut until he can go play a round of golf with the boys. I was so happy to finally have a player that showed some emotion, so umph if you will, but I guess that is a big no no in the Braves organization.
Of course this is all based on the fact that they trade Escobar, which Frank Wren has apparently made it his life mission to accomplish. That, and getting the Braves to a first round exit in the playoffs.
By John
December 16, 2008 11:13 AM | Link to this
YES!!!!! I was wondering why we werent going after Fookie! I knew he was waiting for us to take action by not taking the As offer.
I think with the way our front office works there is some thing BIG on the horizon that not even DOB knows about!
We MUST keep Esco! He and Fookie could be a monster of a middle infield.
Now to the final two pieces, bat in LF and SP
I dont think that we need a def ace…i have a feeling Smoltz will be a force WHEN (not if!) he comes back. Wren just cant let him slip away. Just sign a strong middle of the rotation guy like the Japanese FA that weve been talking too and our pitching is set.
Think about it 1.Smoltz 2. JJ 3. Vasquez 4. Kawakami 5. Glavine/Hanson/Campillo/Morton
Thats a good and DEEP starting rotation.
By Marc
December 16, 2008 11:16 AM | Link to this
I like Furcal and will welcome him in a Braves Uniform agian, but I don’t know if trading Escobar for a 2nd tier pitcher (we’re out of the Peavy sweepstakes folks, just forget about it already), and then going on the hunt for a bat is a great idea.
You’re supposed to upgrade your team, not butcher it and stitch it back up.
By Robert(Chipper Is The Best)
December 16, 2008 11:19 AM | Link to this
Two possibel scenarios. The Braves offer Escobar, Morton, Reyes, B. Jones, Hernandez, and another minor leaguer for Oswalt and Tejada.
Or the Braves offer Escobar and Morton for Greinke then offer Francoeur and Boyer along with another minor leaguer for Ankiel. They would have enough cash left over to sign Randy Wolf.
By Lew
December 16, 2008 11:19 AM | Link to this
DannyFish-Dude, Unicorns don’t fart-they just don’t. Thought everyone knew that.
By Ryan
December 16, 2008 11:19 AM | Link to this
where are these halladay/rios rumors coming from? didn’t the jays just lock up rios for a long term deal? why would they trade their best young player?
By GEO123
December 16, 2008 11:19 AM | Link to this
ccrider,
It’s already been posted that the Cardinals aren’t all that interested in KL (they wanted Escobar). However, even if they were you wouldn’t get what you wanted with that expanded trade. #1 we have arguably the best CF prospect in baseball in Colby Rasmus so Gorky has limited value, in fact getting a spot cleared for Rasmus is the main reason we are loooking to trade 1 (not 2 ) starting OF’s. #2 Soriano isn’t really a closer so don’t try and pawn him off as one. We are really looking for a LH reliever that can close. Also, Reyes would have limited value to us. Why would we trade 2 starting OF’s for what you’re offering?
By BravesFan n NC
December 16, 2008 11:19 AM | Link to this
I like the idea of bringing Fookie back. I wonder if the braves would trade KJ for a young guy with upside like maholm or one of the twins young starters?
By Tyler
December 16, 2008 11:20 AM | Link to this
Furcal didn’t help the Dodgers or the Braves win any pennants. Besides, the Braves won their only world series with Marquis Grissom leading off, and he was never considered a prototypical leadoff hitter. Unless this acquisition leads to a major trade for a legitimate #1 ace, it will have been worthless.
By Efrim
December 16, 2008 11:20 AM | Link to this
Wouldn’t Wren have to have a deal in place before making a free agent signing like this? I find it hard to believe that he would sign a second shortstop and then go to Towers. Some type of deal is in place already. Maybe not with SD, but possibly with Kansas City for Greinke.
By Marc
December 16, 2008 11:20 AM | Link to this
Oh and I proposed a KJ/Gorky/B. Jones/2nd tier prospect for Holladay/Rios shortly after the season ended and was chastised for conjuering such a horrible idea.
Turns out people seem to like a deal along those lines quite a bit. Good, I know I’m not crazy anymore!
By matt
December 16, 2008 11:21 AM | Link to this
The Halladay/Rios thing sounds too good to be true. But, man, that would be an awesome move! I hate to lose Yunel and Morton especially, but to get those 2? You do that deal. Sounds like basically the same package they were trying to send to San Diego.
Anyway, probably jumping to conclusions too early, but this sounds exciting!
What are the lengths of their contracts? Anybody know?
By Efrim
December 16, 2008 11:21 AM | Link to this
In a stunning turnaround, Furcal spurned the A’s for a three-year deal with the Braves worth approximately $30 million, according to major- league sources.
Three years and 30 million. Not bad.
By austinbrave
December 16, 2008 11:22 AM | Link to this
All I want for Christmas is this rumor to become true. Roy Halladay, & Rios to Atlanta. Think about it. Toronto’s owner died, they laid off 20 people in their office, and then they lost their GMC contract. They need to survive next year!!!
I think it’s true!!!!!!!!!
By Mark C.
December 16, 2008 11:24 AM | Link to this
DOB
Do you think this signing changes FW’s stance on trading both his middle infielders? Furcal/Prado doesn’t sound like a bad combo if Yunel and KJ can bring back an SP and LF. I still don’t like any of the rumored deals I’ve heard involving KJ.
By Anders
December 16, 2008 11:24 AM | Link to this
Lew I agree with your 11:08. This is one of those deals you need to let play out fully before assessing.
I will say that risking that the left side of your infield could be out for a combined 70 games or so and figures to get worse in the years to come certainly wouldn’t be very enticing to any pitcher who has options at his disposal.
By richbrave
December 16, 2008 11:25 AM | Link to this
FURCAL, ESCOBAR, JONES, ????, McCANN, JOHNSON, KOTCHMAN, FRANCOUER. That’s what we got right now, IF FURCAL can still stand up straight and a proper #4 hitter is in place by ST = SOLID line-up with ????. Subtract ESCOBAR - not so.
ROSS, INFANTE, PRADO, DIAZ, NORTON - sign him = SOLID bench.
JURJENS, VASQUEZ, CAMPILLO, MORTON, REYES = OUCH.!!!! But add PEAVY - mucho mejor.
CARLYLE, BENNETT, GONZALEZ, SORIANO, MOYLAN(late),OHMAN = SIGN OHMAN.
SMOLTZ, GLAVINE, ACOSTA, TAVARES ????, HANSON, HUDSON(very late), two newbie bull-pen lefties = ???? - lots.!!!!
By i cant take it anymore
December 16, 2008 11:26 AM | Link to this
If the braves do get furcal, something is cooking big time. How can we afford furcal, javy v, a new OF bat, new pitcher, smoltz, and the arbitration eligible guys? We HAVE got to keep smoltz, peroid. This is going to be interesting. I would love to keep KJ, especially over yunel. I hope we can keep them both.
By LT-A blogger
December 16, 2008 11:28 AM | Link to this
Does anyone know why the BC and FW have previously stated moving KJ to LF is not an option. I don’t remember him being that poor in LF but perhaps my memory is failing me. Was it the elbow sugury? Just curious because the Braves need a LF and he initially played there when first coming up.
By Serge
December 16, 2008 11:28 AM | Link to this
Are we still on the KJ traded thing Dave? Martin Prado is back to super sub status? Wasnt he starter caliber?
No this means Escobar is gone. A good bet would be Minesota. Who still needs a short stop.
By chris
December 16, 2008 11:28 AM | Link to this
Let’s assume the Braves give Furcal $10MM per year. So, for $20MM per year would you rather have Furcal and Vazquez or would you rather have had Sabathia and Escobar? The Braves keep signing mediocrity, and they will continue to be mediocre.
By bob
December 16, 2008 11:28 AM | Link to this
put escobar and furcal at second and short and move Kelly Johnson back in left field(his best position). He would probably be the productive outfielder they are looking for and would relax in the field. We would also be better up the middle on defense and with Furcal leading off and Escobar hitting second would be good top of order.
By cmac1919
December 16, 2008 11:28 AM | Link to this
Where in the heck is this Halladay/Rios trade rumor coming from?
By SeaAtl
December 16, 2008 11:29 AM | Link to this
JJMac - my bad - thanks.
By Gibby
December 16, 2008 11:30 AM | Link to this
Good move and possibly great if it means we can move Escobar for an elite Pitcher.
Love the idea of Holliday. That would be great
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
December 16, 2008 11:30 AM | Link to this
If Furcal is healthy and the Braves intend on keeping him to play 2B, I have to give Frank Wren a big thumbs up on this free agent signing. This move improves the pitching by virtue of the air tight up the middle defense.
KJ can play the OF but I think he is trade bait. Infante and Prado provide the infield depth. Atlanta is probably going to trade KJ for another pitcher or outfielder.
We shall see if Frank Wren can use this opportunity to improve both the pitching and defense. If so, the man has his head screwed on straight.
By Lew
December 16, 2008 11:30 AM | Link to this
JR-The Blue Jays owner died a week or so ago. They may well be shedding payroll. I would also imagine that if the trade with the Jays is made, the ywill eat some of Rios salary.
By Wayne in Utah
December 16, 2008 11:31 AM | Link to this
Pete R
Awesome!
By Salty
December 16, 2008 11:32 AM | Link to this
Could the Braves get Furcal at SS,move Escobar to 2B, trade KJ, and wait for Chipper to go on the DL? That would make sense to me. Then you could move Raffy or Yunel to third and bring in Prado. What do y’all think? Am I out of my mind?
Don’t know about your state of mind, but certainly you don’t seem too optimistic, quint. LOL!
By WP
December 16, 2008 11:32 AM | Link to this
D’ont through away the future for someone who has back problems. I have back problems and it is not easy to get over especially when you have surgery.
By GermanBravesFan
December 16, 2008 11:33 AM | Link to this
DOB: Can Infante play shortstop if needed? If so, then he could back up Furcal if the Braves trade Escobar…
By Lew
December 16, 2008 11:33 AM | Link to this
Blue Jays had a GM deal? I guess that explains the inordinate amount of Malibu ads we saw there last year when the Braves played their dome. There were more car ads (read that Malibu ads-the ONLY car GM apparently makes) than player stats shown on the scoreboards.
By Ryan
December 16, 2008 11:33 AM | Link to this
rios is locked up until 2014 for cheap money considering the market for a player at his caliber… no way the jays deal him. again, where are these rumors coming from???
By Adam
December 16, 2008 11:34 AM | Link to this
Greinke is the guy I would hope the Braves push for. His stuff is Cy Young caliber. He had a very good ERA in AL last year and is a legit #1. He’s young and wants to play in the NL.
By Lew
December 16, 2008 11:34 AM | Link to this
Anders-Yet another reason I would doubt that Prado starts at second-he is needed in a utility role, especially considering he can play third.
By Ron Roberts
December 16, 2008 11:35 AM | Link to this
I like this deal, because Furcal was the biggest free agent “get” out there shy of Manny, who isn’t a fit for us, monetarily. Sure he’d have filled an OF “power” void but with our (current) deficiencies at the starting rotation, we don’t need any more defensive liabilities than we already have out tehre.
Listen, folks - the Phillies won it all last year with a rotation that scares nobody beyond Cole Hamels. The Braves now have the makings of a “hits-for-average” lineup with speed on the bases (if we keep Yunel and Francoeur). Having a handful of #2-#3 guys in the rotation might not be such a liability with a run-producing offense and a stacked bullpen, which I think the Braves have, per the return of Soriano, Moylan and the continued progress of Mike Gonzalez. Seriously, if those three are all healthy, is there a better 7,8,9th inning tandem in the majors?
Of course, if we spun KJ or Yunel for Greinke (or better - I’m not holding my breath for Halliday, but damn that’d be a coup), I think we’re in the hunt. If we somehow managed to fill the OF power void before spring training, as well, I say we’re a deep-run playoff threat.
The talk of spinning Yunel and a minor league outfield phenom makes sense, too, given our abundance of minor league OF phenoms. Francoeur’s young, and with he, Gorkys, Schafer and Heyward, there’s too many players for three positions.
Anyhow, good work, Frank. We’re (finally) seeing the makings of a gameplan here, and I’m excited to see we’re not just conceding defeat to the moneybags in NYC this offsesaon.
By Nate
December 16, 2008 11:36 AM | Link to this
Halladay has two years left on his contract, and Rios, I believe just signed a big contract a year ago. He had a bad year last year, so that contract may look bad to the Blue Jays at the moment.
By Bubdylan
December 16, 2008 11:36 AM | Link to this
P Rose Best ever (that I’ve seen). I laughed my tail off.
By BravesFanInRockies
December 16, 2008 11:36 AM | Link to this
Bowman’s now saying the plan is to move KJ back to left.
http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081216&contentid=3718632&vkey=newsatl&fext=.jsp&c_id=atl
He’d be the team’s most productive OF, but that just shows you how lousy the other guys were. I think KJ’s a keeper at 2B — one of the five best in the NL — not so sure about him as a corner OF, however.
Of course, this could be the plan for today until Furcal passes the physical and signs the deal. Then we’ll see what happens.
By Why not?
December 16, 2008 11:36 AM | Link to this
Escobar to SS, Furcal to 2B, KJ to LF, Ankiel to CF
By Jerry
December 16, 2008 11:37 AM | Link to this
You have to trade KJ. With Rafael in at shortstop that will put Yunel over to 3rd once Chipper retires or moves to the American League. Of course Yunel would stay at 2nd until such time as Chipper leaves or gets hurt. That for sure is coming for Hoss.
Everybody is down on Casey and quite frankily everybody needs to shut up. You wait and see. Casey will hit .280 to .290 with at least 90 RBI’s and play good defense.
Don’t trade Yunel. If Cox doesn’t like him so what. Cox should be gone soon. In fact lets call this his final tour year and say bye. Don Baylor is waiting. If he is our manager then we don’t need TP. Hint Hint.
Question. Does McDowell have our pitchers on the same type of routine that Mazzone had our pitchers on. I’ve never seen a season where a team, any team, lost pitchers to arm trouble like the Braves did last year. Must be something in the water or the coaching.
By Salty
December 16, 2008 11:39 AM | Link to this
With McCann thinner and Fookie potentially coming back, perhaps we can finally have some active speed on the base paths.
Jaye…I get your point; still, this has to be the first, and possibly last time that McCann will be mentioned in the subject of speed on the Braves! LOL!
By Luther
December 16, 2008 11:39 AM | Link to this
Yes, now we flip Furcal for Crawford;)
By J.D.
December 16, 2008 11:40 AM | Link to this
Bowman reports the Braves will not trade KJ or Esco, instead the plan is to move Kelly to left and keep Yunel at SS, Furcal to play 2B.
“Where Furcal would be positioned defensively remains to be seen. But the Braves have no intention to trade either Johnson or Escobar. Instead, they are planning to move Johnson back to left field, a position he played before moving to second base before the start of the 2007 season.
The opportunity to have both Furcal and Johnson in their lineup proved more appealing to the Braves than any of the options they were evaluating in their search to find a power-hitting outfielder.”
By Bill in ATL
December 16, 2008 11:40 AM | Link to this
The Blue Jays are in payroll shedding mode.
The Blue Jays need a shortstop desperately.
The Blue Jays have pitching depth it seems.
The reality is that the Jays are not going to be able to do anything this offseason to make themselves a serious threat in the AL East. Nothing. They might as well start to rebuild.
This deal could make sense.
Fingers are crossed, though I don’t love the fact that Halladay will be a FA after 2010 so we’d only have him for 2 years unless we can resign him or perhaps can get him to extend his contract as part of this trade.
By JR
December 16, 2008 11:40 AM | Link to this
You know what’s funny about this whole thing is that Toronto was in the bidding for Furcal must mysteriously pulled out of the bidding yesterday. There might be some sort of deal with Toronto. Toronto said early on they were not going to trade Halladay and why would they if they expect to contend. So it could very well be Rios in some sort of package. I wouldn’t mind seeing a healthy Dustin McGowan in a Braves uniform too. You know he’s another home boy and our front office likes players from Ga. Just a thought
By nitram odarp
December 16, 2008 11:41 AM | Link to this
KJ is by far the better player compared to Prado. i and not sure why all yall are trying to give that position to him say KJ sucks. i have never been impressed with Prado. KJ has one of the more pure swings i have seen in the game and is legit.
risky move on furcal, sounds like more of the same from last year…. bring in the injured guy and give him a discount… i dont know
By BO..........
December 16, 2008 11:42 AM | Link to this
I was singing the Furcal song while DOB works the lines.
By Jerry
December 16, 2008 11:42 AM | Link to this
Tyler you’re an idiot. Our run ended when Furcal left. Grissom had or had close to 200 hits a year. Sounds prototypical to me.
By Salty
December 16, 2008 11:42 AM | Link to this
DannyFish-Dude, Unicorns don’t fart-they just don’t. Thought everyone knew that.
Lew, I knew you were infinite in your wisdom, but this latest tidbit blows me away! You are, indeed, without limits! LOL!
By kcfan
December 16, 2008 11:43 AM | Link to this
First off, KC isn’t trading Greinke. Secondly, if they do, Guillen is going with him and we are getting Francoeur, Escobar, and 2 prospects….Hanson being one of them. Don’t like it? Sign Randy Wolf then.
By i cant take it anymore
December 16, 2008 11:43 AM | Link to this
THANKS ANDERS! now all the pitchers that have options aren’t going to come here.
” I believe if you knew my actual credentials and level of responsibility it would stagger you. ANDERS”.
By ernesto
December 16, 2008 11:43 AM | Link to this
Once again, I really hope it’s KJ on the trading block and not Esco.
I think given the DL history of Chipper and Furcal, Esco’s ability to move from SS to 3rd, and back, will/would be huge for this team.
And, what’s the CV on who has the better range at SS Furcal or Esco?
By ernesto
December 16, 2008 11:43 AM | Link to this
Once again, I really hope it’s KJ on the trading block and not Esco.
I think given the DL history of Chipper and Furcal, Esco’s ability to move from SS to 3rd, and back, will/would be huge for this team.
And, what’s the CV on who has the better range at SS Furcal or Esco?
By Efrim
December 16, 2008 11:44 AM | Link to this
Prado is not an everyday player at second base.
By connor
December 16, 2008 11:45 AM | Link to this
If someone actually has a link to this ESPN blog or any other source that talks about a Braves-Toronto trade please post it.
By Lew
December 16, 2008 11:45 AM | Link to this
chris-First of all, Sabbathia just signed for $23 million a year, so you’re wrong on the figure right off the bat. Second, that would be around 25% of the Braves’ total salary-a figure that is bound NOT to lead to success, as has been discussed here all during this off season.
It also leaves no money left to fill the outfield and other pitching holes.
By Heath
December 16, 2008 11:46 AM | Link to this
I know I will get pounded for this…but why not give Bonds a really incentive-laden contract to play left….he would be a perfect fit for a platoon combo with diaz…let’s do it!
By Original Jon
December 16, 2008 11:47 AM | Link to this
Why would Dayton Moore trade us Greinke? Honestly, why? There is no reason for him to even consider trading Greinke to us. He has him under control for 2 more years. Plus, what went down with the whole waiver wire war? Do you think Dayton feels spurned a little that Atlanta swooped in and got Furcal? Wonder if any of these things has any effect on us dealing with Dayton.
By Efrim
December 16, 2008 11:47 AM | Link to this
Wow, Kelly Johnson back to LF? Braves are still lacking power and starting pitching…..
but maybe this “we’re keeping everyone” ploy is to get Towers to give us a call?
By Dan
December 16, 2008 11:48 AM | Link to this
I’d be shocked if it is not Escobar who is traded. The Braves likely would have just let Prado play second base at league minimum rather than have signed Furcal if it was Johnson being traded.
By MJ
December 16, 2008 11:48 AM | Link to this
I like the move. And those of you concerned about the deal ask yourself this…is Furcal any more of a gamble than signing the arm/elbow injury waiting to happen AJ Burnett would have been? Not in the least. And the Braves are not paying out the rear for him like they would have for Burnett. Plus the Braves have so much flexibility w/ this move to go in any direction they want. Good job Frank Wren! Keep it going!
By Jason Breaux
December 16, 2008 11:49 AM | Link to this
That toronto rumor is the most ridiculous rumor ive heard in a while! Thanks for the laugh! It would probably take just about all those players to land Holliday alone much less Rios! Wow
By InCognito
December 16, 2008 11:49 AM | Link to this
if it’s true that KJ is going back to left, this is a bad signing. we need pitching, period.
By clay17
December 16, 2008 11:50 AM | Link to this
By Robert(Chipper Is The Best) Or the Braves offer Escobar and Morton for Greinke then offer Francoeur and Boyer along with another minor leaguer for Ankiel. They would have enough cash left over to sign Randy Wolf.
Read this and laughed my butt off….then I realized you were probably serious, and it wasn’t so funny anymore, just sad.
By Epinephrine
December 16, 2008 11:50 AM | Link to this
Really no reason to even speculate. I think we are all in wait and see mode. But great move with Fookie. It gives the Braves so many options via trade-so many different possible packages.
By Anders
December 16, 2008 11:50 AM | Link to this
Lew
You really think the Braves can get Halladay and Rios for what’s being shown above? I can’t imagine the Jays wouldn’t shop those two heavily and publicly first.
Unless Hanson is the prospect I’ll be suprised if that deal comes off under the cover of darkness. The Jays might as well bury the franchise with the owner after losing AJ and then trading those two for what amounts to possibilities.
By Lew
December 16, 2008 11:50 AM | Link to this
BravesFanInRockies-Make of it what you will, but I check Baseball Reference for KJ’s outfield stats. He has a Fldg% of 1.000 on 144 put outs and has 6 assists. Not much of a sample size and I know little of range factors and the like, but he seems to be much more serviceable than maybe we give him credit for.
Were he to remain as aggressive at the plate as he was at the end of last season, maybe he could hit 25 HR. Maybe. I’d settle for the doubles, triples and 20-25 HR if he remains consistent.
By Original Jon
December 16, 2008 11:51 AM | Link to this
kcfan that must really suck, to be a kc fan.
By ncscoots
December 16, 2008 11:51 AM | Link to this
Kelly is going to make a lot more money than Escobar in 2009. Don’t know if that will have any bearing on which one is moved, but another move that will bring in salary might make it relevant.
And, just for the record, Escobar’s arm is rated near the top of the 20-80 scale, and he’s almost certain to have more range at this point than Furcal. Escobar is also known to be somewhat uncomfortable at 2B. If both are on the squad, Escobar is the choice at SS.
By This Gets Old
December 16, 2008 11:52 AM | Link to this
The link to the MLB story on Furcal was inaccurate. Here is the working link.
http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081216&contentid=3718632&vkey=newsatl&fext=.jsp&c_id=atl
By OHIOBRAVESFAN
December 16, 2008 11:52 AM | Link to this
With the trade today for Furcal, here’s a comparison of Kelly Johnson vs. other available LF options. As you can see, Ankiel isn’t nearly enough of an upgrade over Kelly to give up anything for a one year rental of him.
Ludwick, Burrell, and Abreu all represent upgrades. However, it can be argued if Ludwick can repeat his 2008.
Just some stats for thought.
2009 LEFT FIELD OPTIONS:
K. Johnson .287 .349 12 69 .446 R. Ludwick .299 .375 37 113 .591 R. Ankiel .264 .337 25 71 .506 P. Burrell .250 .367 33 86 .507 B. Abreu .296 .371 20 100 .471
By Dan
December 16, 2008 11:53 AM | Link to this
Bowman:
ATLANTA — The Braves are looking forward to the opportunity to once again place Rafael Furcal at the top of their lineup. At the same time, they’re looking forward to having both Kelly Johnson and Yunel Escobar in that same lineup.
Where Furcal would be positioned defensively remains to be seen. But the Braves have no intention to trade either Johnson or Escobar. Instead, they are planning to move Johnson back to left field, a position he played before moving to second base before the start of the 2007 season.
The opportunity to have both Furcal and Johnson in their lineup proved more appealing to the Braves than any of the options they were evaluating in their search to find a power-hitting outfielder.
With Johnson, they feel they have a player capable of hitting 15-20 homers. Matt Diaz could also see some time in left field.
By DAP
December 16, 2008 11:53 AM | Link to this
by the way, DOB, thanks for the new blog. i forgot to mention that in the last post.
by the way, do we know how much the contract will cost? ive heard three years,, but not a $$$ amount.
By Art Vandelay
December 16, 2008 11:53 AM | Link to this
Heath — bite your tongue. Bonds is the last thing we need in this town.
By dgd
December 16, 2008 11:55 AM | Link to this
I say don’t give up the farm for Halliday. Put Kelly in left (spelled frequently by Diaz), Schafer in center, resign Ohman, cross your fingers that Smoltz can pitch at a high level and sign Oliver Perez. You have a starting staff of Smolts, Vazquez, JJ, Perez, and Morton (w/Hanson getting some AAA time). You have a lights out bullpen. You keep your young studs. If you catch lighning in a bottle (i.e. Francouer and Smolts rebound and the injury bug stays away) you compete this year, while rebuilding for the future. Under such a scenario, would Escobar bat cleanup—the righty between Chipper and McCann?
By Anders
December 16, 2008 11:55 AM | Link to this
I can’t…
THANKS ANDERS! now all the pitchers that have options aren’t going to come here.
So we agree? Or was this an ill fated attempt at humor?
Glad to see you save my posts from weeks ago. Now I know I have at least one fan. Little stalkish though.
By kirkinga
December 16, 2008 11:56 AM | Link to this
Poor Frank Wren. He’s condemned for supposedly not making any moves, but when he does he still gets kicked.
Yes there is legit concern about his back, but Rafael is a known quantity and only 31.He shouldn’t have gotten away in the first place.
If you’re a Braves fan, and not just here to criticize, then you understand the Braves just solved a problem with their lineup.Having a true leadoff hitter will make everyone else better.
If by some miracle Escobar remains a Braves, we have a heckuva 1-2 punch at the top of our lineup. If KJ stays and bats second we still have a solid combo.
Again, this may not be a huge score by the standards of many on here, but this is another solid acquisition by Wren.
The Braves were already a better team than the one that finished last season and today they improved some more.More moves to come.
Be Happy People!
By Too Hot For Teacher
December 16, 2008 11:56 AM | Link to this
If he’s healthy I like this signing. What happens afterwards could go either way:
If we don’t trade anybody we’re weak at SP but have a pretty good lineup - I think Furcal/Escobar could be a fun combination - I can see the two of them getting along very well too. KJ in left, Anderson/Hernandez/Schaefer in CF, Frenchy in right, Chipper at 3rd, Kotchman at 1st, McCann at C. Prado is playing alot too relieving either Furcal or Chipper to keep them healthy. Could be a good lineup - not a bashing lineup but a speed and chaos lineup like the marlins had a few years ago when they went to the WS and beat the Yankees with Louis Castillo and crew at the top.
If we do trade for a good pitcher I think that’s certainly a good thing as well. I haven’t read anywhere else about this Halladay/Rios thing but it seems pretty cool if it’s true.
By This Gets Old
December 16, 2008 11:56 AM | Link to this
Looks like KJ is moving back to left. No way Toronto trades their number one starter.
http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081216&contentid=3718632&vkey=newsatl&fext=.jsp&c_id=atl
By Mike
December 16, 2008 11:57 AM | Link to this
I hope the rumors with Toronto I am hearing here are true. I think that getting Furcal just to move KJ to LF is like using a sledge hammer to knock down a screen door, just to use a toothpick to pick the lock on the main door. Does that make any sense? Well what I mean is I still would want us to go after some power in the OF and KJ’s 15-20 homers just doesnt cut it. Plus we are still out our “ace” pitcher which is the most important thing of all. Maybe the info Bowman is getting on KJ to LF is just diversion from the Braves front office to cover up what they are really doing until its done. Hope so!
By David O'Brien
December 16, 2008 11:57 AM | Link to this
Finally got it confirmed. Furcal might not be taking his physical today, might not be until tomorrow. Not sure about that yet.
Sounds like Braves really are thinking of Furcal-Escobar as their DP combo and move Kelly J. back to left field, despite what team officials have said previously this winter. (Hey, desperate times call for ….)
By Braveheart
December 16, 2008 11:57 AM | Link to this
Is this Frank Wren’s way of telling Omar what a genius move it was last winter to sign an early 30s, badly injured, defensively declining, slowing speedster? Can’t make fun of Omar and the Mets anymore for that Castillo signing …..
By Salty
December 16, 2008 11:58 AM | Link to this
kcfan With all due respect, the odds that Greinke and Hanson being traded are prbably low; however, I will submit that Greinke being traded, somewhere, are far more likely than Hanson being dealt. Just sayin’.
By Bubdylan
December 16, 2008 11:58 AM | Link to this
Help! I’m staggered, and I can’t get up. Somebody get these credentials off of me, aaaugh!
By Ryan
December 16, 2008 11:58 AM | Link to this
i hope that bowman article isn’t true, not moving KJ or Esco leaves us with a lack of power and a lack of pitching. why sign furcal to be content with a mediocre team?
By Glenn
December 16, 2008 11:58 AM | Link to this
The official Braves’ site says that the Braves will keep both Escobar and Kelley, with Kelley moving to Left Field, Diaz platooning.
By JR
December 16, 2008 11:58 AM | Link to this
KJ in left makes us no better. Someone has to go whether it’s KJ or Yunel. I think the consensus is keep Yunel and then we would have the two best arms in baseball on our infield. We still have to upgrade our Starting pitching and OF and KJ is not an upgrade in the OF. You could leave Diaz or Infante out there the whole season and they would produce as much as KJ. 12 HR 65-75 RBI
By Steve from OH
December 16, 2008 11:59 AM | Link to this
Well, this was…out of left field, so to speak. At least, I didn’t expect it with Escobar and Johnson still in the organization. At first glance (3/30?) I like it, but I’ll reserve full judgment until FW makes his next move (which seems imminent).
If it’s Rios and Halladay, I’ll be pumped. Dunno where that rumor came from, but it doesn’t hurt to dream.
By David O'Brien
December 16, 2008 11:59 AM | Link to this
DAP, probably about $10 mill per year. He’d probably be taking the bigger four-year guarantee with Oakland were it not for fact he loved playing for Braves and Cox and still has a home here.
By JJ
December 16, 2008 11:59 AM | Link to this
Wow… It seems as if Wren is finally using his BRAINS! Now let’s wait and see if he could lure in a dynamic starting pitcher.
By James
December 16, 2008 12:00 PM | Link to this
Finally. It’s very good to hear something positive about the Braves in this offseason.
I’m hoping we get this news confirmed today with his signing and that we hear about a trade very soon for a pitcher: Peavy or Greinke.
DOB—I totally agree with you about what an exciting DP combinatin Furcal and Escobar could make—and I just hope the Braves do not trade Escobar away.
I also like what one of the bloggers suggested over the weekend about signing Encarncion from the Reds. If the Braves could get him for LF, platoon Anderson/Blanco in CF, and sign a pitcher…IF Francoeur comes back strong…and IF John Smoltz could come back and make it through the season…I feel very good about the Braves’ chances of making the playoffs this coming year.
Lots of “Ifs,” to be sure, but at least the Braves look like they are putting themselves into a position where we can at least hope.
Whatever the case, it is great to hear this news. It has really made my day. I always enjoy reading your articles/blogs, DOB.
By Tony
December 16, 2008 12:00 PM | Link to this
[i]if it’s true that KJ is going back to left, this is a bad signing. we need pitching, period.[/i]
Do you really think the Braves are not going to go after another arm? Of course there going to make another move soon. This move to Sign Furcal was never in the plans but its something that made the team better. Offseason goals were: Pitching and LF Bat. Not a SS or 2nd.
We still have all the tools and players that we were going to move to SD for Peavy. We can still move jo,jo and others. I smell a trade coming soon…
By BravesFanInRockies
December 16, 2008 12:00 PM | Link to this
In other news, the Mets appear close to signing Tim “5-run ERA” Redding. Yeah. Major improvement.
If Frank gets us a bat and another arm, this division may be winnable after all, what with the Phils deciding to bring back the Wheeze Kids (wasn’t Jamie Moyer on that 1983 team?).
By darblue
December 16, 2008 12:00 PM | Link to this
atlanta brave need more top pitching! but we need good hitting also too. sign more player, all of them good and we can win game, lots of game. dob is right, he write long blog and make music lyric, i like listen to music because it is fun but bobby no like this in clubhouse before game but i listen on my speaker and it make my ear feel good.
By Salty
December 16, 2008 12:00 PM | Link to this
Bonds…NO!
By Jersey Gil
December 16, 2008 12:00 PM | Link to this
Blue Jays are hurt with the Economy, Bigger sponsor are: GM, Bank Of America, Master Card…. You got the Pic…. there are in the shedding mode, The Owner Rogers Communication Board mandate to cut cost next year. So nor be surprise for the Holliday, Rios Deal. It that Happen, another Alabama son coming South, Yes Rios was born in Coffee AL.
By Efrim
December 16, 2008 12:00 PM | Link to this
ncscoots
Agreed. Escobar has more range at SS and an equal arm. If he isn’t traded, Esco is our SS.
By Murph
December 16, 2008 12:01 PM | Link to this
Anyone remember what happened to Chipper when he moved to LF? He hasn’t played anything close to a full season since.
I’d rather see a trade for a pitcher and full-time LF than a move that involves KJ in left. I don’t really care which MIF goes.
By Lester Maddox
December 16, 2008 12:01 PM | Link to this
WELCOME HOME FECAL
By sickofit
December 16, 2008 12:01 PM | Link to this
Why do the Braves every year work so hard to improve areas of this team team that do not need help and refuse to fix the problem. IT’S PITCHING STUPID! Every year free agent pitchers come and go on the market and we do nothing. Last years pitching staff was the worse ever. It doesn’t matter if your lead-off hitter gets on base everytime. If you give up 13 runs, you can’t win!
By Lew
December 16, 2008 12:01 PM | Link to this
Jerry-McDowell the problem for the injuries? Don’t think so. Hampton was originally injured while Leo was here.
Smoltz and Glavine were over 40 and Smoltz had several injuries under Leo’s watch. One pitcher was KO’ed trying to maker a putout at first. Acosta strained his hamstring running out a ground ball.
It took all year to figure out what was wrong with Soriano, who ended up having his nerve moved-he already HAD Tommy Johnson surgery before coming to Atlanta. Hudson had never had arm trouble before-it happens sometimes.
Maybe you could blame Moylan on Roger, but who knows what he went through for years before ever coming to Atlanta. Maybe it was an old Fear Snake bite, a Platypus attack or the Roo Nads that were to blame-who knows. Since all the Braves’ pitching injuries were different and several had nothing to do with pitching, it’s hard to blame Roger.
Agree with you on Kotchman, though.
Salty-I should have added Ask McFann. She knows everything about animals-real or fictitious.
By BO..........
December 16, 2008 12:01 PM | Link to this
Jason again if it happens it want be cheap. ESCO,BOYER,JoJo,Charlie,Francour,Parr
By Doc Holiday
December 16, 2008 12:02 PM | Link to this
Efrim let me remind you that we played last year with a third of the players not being “everyday” kind of player…….JF, KJ, Left Fielder, you could add Blanco (he is good but not ready in 2008, he will be in 2009 though).
Ernesto I think that if Braves could not land AJ there is little chance they get something good out of KJ, so I think we will see KJ at LF in 2009. I really dont mind that. I dont like KJ much but about 75% of it is about his glove. For him to play in LF will make him be more relax, less chances to commit errors and more time to work on his offense, which is not bad. I think we will be in good shape with KJ in LF, really. what we need is get rid of JF or for him to really wake up.
Another problem is that Kotchman is not a power hitter, at least not what this team needs since there is absolutely no power in the OF. He is something like Sid Bream, but back then we had Justice, Gant, TP to make for his lack of power. If Kotchman and JF perform as bad as they did last year, no matter what the rest do, we will end up 4th or last in the division.
By BigJohn
December 16, 2008 12:02 PM | Link to this
After reading most of the comments I like the idea of Furcal at 2nd and Escobar at SS. My main concern, like most, is getting some top rated pitching. Smoltz may be getting a little long in the tooth but we need to keep him even if we have to make him the 5th starter and allow his arm to rest.
By Another Arkansas Braves Fan
December 16, 2008 12:03 PM | Link to this
Great to have Fookie back. Now lets get some pitching. No way the Peavy deal gets done IMO. Halladay and Rios would be great…
By Gary
December 16, 2008 12:03 PM | Link to this
Mark Bowman is saying that Braves expect to use Furcal at 2B and move Johnson back to LF since they are having no luck in finding the bat they have been sought after. This surely contradicts what Frank Wren has been saying as recently as Thursday about Johnson in LF, but GMs do change their mind especially when the market for other pieces changes.
Also this does take away one of you biggest trade chips for a starting pitcher unless the Braves are close to signing one or two second tier pitchers. Remember this is how they won in 2003 and 2004, decent-solid pitching and a very good offense.
Can’t wait to see the next moves.
By TrippyHippie
December 16, 2008 12:03 PM | Link to this
OK, so I’ve been lurking for months without commenting. Oh well. I had to come out of hiding to point this out: aren’t ALL players rentals in the end? All contracts eventually expire.
By Salty
December 16, 2008 12:04 PM | Link to this
And the last place Furcal needs to play is where it’s cool and damp in the middle of the summer. His back couldn’t like that!
By Steve from OH
December 16, 2008 12:05 PM | Link to this
If both are on the squad, Escobar is the choice at SS.
Oh yeah, without a doubt, but it’s not our choice, is it, lol?
I’ll be surprised if we move Kelly to left and play Furcal at 2B.
By This Gets Old
December 16, 2008 12:06 PM | Link to this
Now that I see that Escobar might not be on the way out I like the deal.
By Heath
December 16, 2008 12:06 PM | Link to this
Art… just seeing if anyone was paying attention. : )
Regarding LF, I don’t think that you have to have a really big homerun-hitting guy…with ducks on the pond, I’d take a double in the gap. If we can form a team of high OBP guys with good gap power (which includes Furcal, Escobar, Diaz, Johnson, and Kotchman) to compliment McCann and Chipper, I think the team could put up really good numbers. If you think about it, that is how big innings happen anyway…lots of guys getting on and getting in…not too often you get a couple multiple-run homers in the same inning (or even in the same game) no matter who is in the line-up.
The line-up is not too bad…CF is still a mystery, but the pitching staff still needs the biggest improvement.
By SeaAtl
December 16, 2008 12:06 PM | Link to this
Defensively that’s a heck of an infield - Chipper, Escobar, Furcal, Kotchman, McCann…wow. Not sure it’s enough to offset the equal-but-opposite outfield which is still awful.
By TheAntiMe
December 16, 2008 12:06 PM | Link to this
It seems very logical to trade Yunel Escobar after signing Rafael Furcal. The thing is, I don’t see how the Braves can cope with a seriously canyon-esque hole at what is probably the most important of the infield positions, if Furcal goes on the DL for an extended period of time.
Signing Furcal would be almost a no-brainer if you keep Escobar around. At this point, it would seem very optimistic to think that Furcal is going to make it through 2009 without at least one back-related stay on the DL.
If Escobar is traded without at least getting a utility middle infielder in the deal, the Braves would be looking at taking both an offensive, as well as defensive hit to the starting line-up. Also, Escobar works cheap, for now, anyway.
By David O'Brien
December 16, 2008 12:07 PM | Link to this
Also keep in mind, Braves won’t have to give up any draft picks if they do it this way, rather than sign a free agent.
Hey, every little bit counts when you’re in their spot.
By Larry M
December 16, 2008 12:08 PM | Link to this
I was shocked to hear of the Furcal deal this morning. If his signing does not result in a quick trade of either Escobar of Johnson for a starting pitcher, then I have to seriously question what the hell Wren is thinking.
So far this winter, the Braves have proven to be probably the most impotent team in MLB. Can’t pull of the Peavy trade. Can’t sign Hampton. Can’t sign Burnett. At this point, our starting rotation consists of Jurrjens, Vazquez, and maybe Smoltz. Starting pitching and power hitting outfielder were our #1 and #2 priorities this winter.
And yet the first - and only - real move we have made so far involves bringing back a former Brave who dealt with serious medical conditions all last year to play SS. A position that is more than adequately filled by a potential future All-Star in Yunel Escobar.
Now rumors are circulating that they will keep Escobar, Johnson, AND Furcal and plug Johnson into LF? Are you kidding me? If that happens, you haven’t addressed either #1 or #2 of our offseason needs.
The only way this deal makes sense is if you trade Escobar or Johnson to fill one of those two needs. The scenario that makes the most sense to me is you trade one of those guys as part of a deal for a power hitting outfielder and then sign Sheets as a free agent and hope for the best with him.
By Daybed Wagmoe
December 16, 2008 12:08 PM | Link to this
The signing of Furcal is a terrific move by the Braves, no matter what they do with Escobar or KJ. It gives them a multitude of options. Just thinking aloud, here’s how I see it:
The case for trading/keeping KJ: they can move KJ to left field, fixing their LF hole for a run-producing bat. That’s a good move, and even though KJ hits lefty, he’s shown that he can handle LHP well. On the other hand, trading him for a pitcher gives the Braves the option of having Furcal play 2B; or, if Escobar or Furcal gets injured, they can play the other one at SS and have Prado play 2B.
The case for trading Escobar: with Furcal, Escobar becomes expendable, though not completely. If they keep Escobar, Furcal can move to 2B; if they trade Escboar, then having only Furcal at SS doesn’t leave the Braves with much backup if his back doesn’t hold up, or if he injured in a different way. That’s why trading Escobar is so risky. Still, trading Escobar would mean more of a likelihood of bringing in a top-flight pitcher, which the Braves desperately need.
Even though DOB sees the Furcal signing as an indication that Escobar will be traded, I’d much rather see KJ get traded. The Braves would still have Prado as a 2B backup in case one of Furcal/Escobar gets hurt. KJ likely may not bring in as strong of a return for a starting pitcher as Escobar would, depending on the team.
Let’s take the Blue Jays and a possible Halladay/Rios trade — would we send Escobar or KJ? Toronto’s 2B Joe Inglett put up good numbers in part-time service last year, so it would seem that they’d have more of a need for Escobar, who would take over for John McDonald who didn’t put up good part-time numbers. If the Braves receive Alex Rios along with Halladay, then I would think we could also send them Francouer to replace the RF hole that losing Rios would create. We’d likely have to send pitching their way, perhaps someone like Morton.
I still don’t see what sense trading Escobar to the Royals would make as they have Aviles playing SS. Perhaps they would move Aviles to 2B? Trading for Greinke would be good, but I’m not sold on bringing in Guillen as well.
I’m reading reports of having Furcal (2B), Escobar (SS) and KJ (LF) in our lineup next year, and while that would significantly improve our offense, it doesn’t solve our problem of improving the rotation. If we’re able to swing a Halladay/Rios deal and include Francouer in the trade, then we could play Rios in CF or LF, Schaefer in RF, and Blanco/Anderson in CF or bring in another LF.
Oh, the possibilities that the Furcal signing gives us. This definitely puts us in a position to deal from an area of strength as well as the potential to deal prospects outside of our “untouchable” group…can’t wait to see where we go next!!!
DOB — on a completely different note, have you ever posted the lyrics for the DBT’s “Zip City” in your blog before? It seems like you have at some point. Terrific lyrics, especially the line that goes, “Keep your drawers on girl, it ain’t worth the fight, by the time they drop I’ll be gone and you’ll be where they land the rest of your life.”
By BO..........
December 16, 2008 12:11 PM | Link to this
What about Furcal in Lf? eaiser on the back.
By Ron E.
December 16, 2008 12:11 PM | Link to this
How can the Braves be having no luck getting a LF to the point they have to sign Furcal and move KJ who has never hit 20 HRs in a single season to left? Last I checked Manny, Dunn, and Burrell had yet to sign with another team. All it takes to sign one of those 3 is money which the Braves supposedly had plenty to spend (before they wasted it on a redundant infielder Furcal). Having 2 corner outfielders who combined will struggle to hit 20 HRs isn’t going to fix the offensive woes from last year. I’m starting to question if Wren has any clue what he is doing.
By ernesto
December 16, 2008 12:12 PM | Link to this
For all the years we’ve been w/out a prototypical leadoff hitter, we’re now w/out a prototypical #4.
I mean who slots there on a daily basis and makes sense?
Chipper? Could, but better suited to #3 and is out too much to be a dependable force there.
BMac? Could, but out at least every 5th day.
Frenchy? No sir.
Kotchman, not based on his track record.
KJ, Esco? Nope.
BC’s actually put Diaz in there before, hope we don’t see that often.
4 is going to be a Clean Up by committee spot this year I think, and I imagine that is going to have an impact.By Mark
December 16, 2008 12:13 PM | Link to this
DOB,
If they aren’t planning on trading for a pitcher who can we penicl in the rotation next year? Is Wolf going to be our ace that Wren talked about? If that is the case looks like he is saving a lot of money than the 40+ mil that was talked about.
By Lew
December 16, 2008 12:13 PM | Link to this
Anders-No, I think more minor league talent would be called for. I also don’t care about seeing Rios play in Atlanta. I’d rather go with Johnson in left (with Diaz) if we were to get Halladay. With him at the top of our rotation, we could forego a bit of offense. I’m also skeptical the trade will happen.
By Rahul
December 16, 2008 12:13 PM | Link to this
I think moving KJ back to LF is a good idea…sure he doesn’t have good power, but we will save some runs with the IF Defense…KJ wasnt too hot out at 2B and Furcal/Escobar both have good range.
By Anders
December 16, 2008 12:14 PM | Link to this
Buddylan
Your 11:58 is very funny. You certainly are one of the more clever guys on here.
Braveheart
Thanks for your 11:57. I was holding my tongue regarding that. One guy’s Castillo is another guys Furcal. Hopefully Wren doen’t show up on Alou’s horse ranch in the DR any time soon!
By cabravesfan
December 16, 2008 12:14 PM | Link to this
When I first heard this news I was surprised..it will be interesting to see how this one plays out.
I tend to agree with you Run,Heap,Run- as much as i like Furcal, I am very concerned about his back- but if this leads to the Braves picking up a starting pitcher it will be a good move…
By A FAN
December 16, 2008 12:14 PM | Link to this
bad signing if its true. we trade for a lead off hitter with the same back problems that cost us a month in CF. plus it took cash from our pool to get an ace and a power bat. please don’t feed me the line that greinke is an ace just off one year. and peavy doesn’t want to drop the no trade clause so he isnt coming ohh yea and no power bat in left either. i think if we loaded up the rotation with guys like perez ans garland we would have great depth along with keeping escobar ans some money left to get a power bat. answer this anyone were we an ace away from postseason or were we about 2 to 3 pitchers short last year? the pen has issues seeing that moylan and soriano are coming off elbow surgeries and are going to have to be babies early during the season so getting guys who eat inning would be a great help.
By N8
December 16, 2008 12:15 PM | Link to this
This is a nice move by Wren. Provided that Furcal stays healthy (never a “given” with back issues).
All the way around, this makes the team better, no matter how he is used.
I too, like the idea of Furcal and Escobar up the middle.
If Wren/Bobby choose to throw KJ back in LF, great. If they choose to trade KJ for a power LF bat or a pitcher, great. If they choose to put Furcal at SS and trade Escobar for a pitcher or LF power bat, great.
Either way, Furcal is the lead-off hitter we’ve been trying to replace since he left, and Wren has more flexibility for a trade, than he had yesterday.
So like I said, the team is (or will be) better for this move.
Of course, if Furcal misses 70+ games due to his back, then we might be in trouble. But like DOB stated, Prado is a decent 2B to replace Furcal (I refuse to call him Fookie), but the hole at the top of the lineup will NOT be so easy to “backup”.
I would actually like to see Wren acquire (either in free agency - if anybody is available), or via a trade, a SPEED guy for LF (if KJ is in fact traded), rather than a power bat.
To have Furcal’s speed at the top of the order, and add another speed guy to bat 2nd (which is KJ’s best batting order position as well), would negate the NEED for more power. Speed doesn’t slump.
A team with solid defense and speed, can get away with less dominant pitching, IMO.
While I’ve been all over Wren for not backing up what he stated his “goals” were when the off-season began, I have to give him props for having the ballz to make this move, without trading Escobar or KJ first.
Well done, frank. Now finish it.
By BO..........
December 16, 2008 12:15 PM | Link to this
Kellys future should be 3rd base, lets get him ready to go in for Chip, 40 games this year.
By James
December 16, 2008 12:15 PM | Link to this
Murph—the one difference between Chipper and KJ is that LF is KJ’s natural position…so maybe that potential move could spark his numbers.
As for Kotchman, he is all we have to show for all we gave up for Tex, so I hope the Braves keep him. I think he will have a good year. If he just puts up solid numbers and proves capable of getting hits in the late innings, I’ll be happy.
The Braves aren’t going to win by fielding a team of All-Stars…it hasn’t worked for the Yankees. The Braves’ best teams were the early 90s ones, which didn’t feature a HOF’er at all in the starting eight.
So: keep Kotchman, bring in a solid player like Encarncion (for example), add an arm, and they should be fine.
Doc—I may be wrong, but Justice and Gant didn’t hit 60 HRs combined in 1991 or 1992.
By James
December 16, 2008 12:17 PM | Link to this
53 and 38 for Gant and Justice combined in 1991 and 1992, respectively.
By ernesto
December 16, 2008 12:18 PM | Link to this
**Also keep in mind, Braves won’t have to give up any draft picks if they do it this way, rather than sign a free agent.
Hey, every little bit counts when you’re in their spot.**
Why is that? Is Raffy not considered a Type-A b/c of his injuries last year? Surely he must be at least a Type-B free agent. Or did the Dodgers not make him an offer?
By Salty
December 16, 2008 12:19 PM | Link to this
So far this winter, the Braves have proven to be probably the most impotent team in MLB.
LarryM…gotta disagree, bud. Patience is the single best virtue right now, but that’s my view. Every team is assessing their economic status, presently, and it’s not a pretty picture for many…revenue sharing notwithstanding. Anyone using their powder now will rue their decision; we may all be surprised at the gravity of circumstances some clubs/cities may be facing, and the decisions confronting them. As such, we will also be surprised at the relative bargains upcoming…and the value saved powder will have at that time. Then again, I may be pounding sand, too! LOL!
By Ricardo
December 16, 2008 12:20 PM | Link to this
If this “is what it is” (w/no secondary move) then I’m not sure it make a lot of sense. Furcal is a very good player, but he and Escobar seem to overlap in some (not all) ways, skill-wise. KJ is a good hitter, but wasn’t much as a left fielder. This is odd - I still think something else is coming.
By skull
December 16, 2008 12:22 PM | Link to this
Well this is a fine kettle of fish isn’t it?
Many here thought we should have just resigned Tex and all of our hitting needs would be covered. I wondered how many of them actually paid attention to his stay with the Braves this April, May & June. In fact I wonder if many MLB GMs paid any attention to those months or only looked at final stats?
But my point is that ESPN says the bidding for Tex is now up to 8 years, $180M—thats all, sure seems like a paltry sum for such a clutch hitter!
By Cory
December 16, 2008 12:22 PM | Link to this
I love the fact that we are bringing Furcal back. I never wanted him to leave in the first place. However, this move will not be good unless we use Escobar or KJ for a true Ace pitcher..
The Blue Jays dropped out of the running for Furcal because of the price right? That means they still need a SS, so why not try and trade Escobar to Toronto for Halladay? I know it will take more, but I wouldn’t mind seeing Furcal at SS, KJ in LF, and Prado at 2B..
We still need a pitcher of #1 material though.. A rotation of Halladay/Peavy, Smoltz, Jurrgens, Vasquez, and Hanson would be awesome.. Get it done Wren, we want a winning team again..
By jimmyjoe
December 16, 2008 12:22 PM | Link to this
David,
Your article is GREAT news!!! I finally have something positive (and hope) to grasp in this offseason that was supposed to be super upgrades for our Braves.
Greinke, Peavey, and Maholm are all power pitchers who would give a good start on our way to compete again. I may have to offer a public apology to Frank Wren if this all goes down.
You’ve made my day David, this is the kind of news I like to read. Super job as always.
Braves Fan on a hot tin roof.
David… try to get ahold of Lamont Cranston Specials Lit album/songs on archives. Worth your time…
By Gary
December 16, 2008 12:24 PM | Link to this
Where are these rumors about Halladay and Rios coming from?? I heard an ESPN radio rumor but have not seen anything concrete enough to believe it. Don’t get me wrong, it would be great to have both of them but after hearing Toronto say that they will not trade Halladay, I wonder what would make them change their mind.
By Lew
December 16, 2008 12:24 PM | Link to this
SeaAtl-You really think the outfield defense is bad? Seriously?
Kelly has a 1.000F% and 6 assists with his 144 put outs-not a huge sample size, like I mentioned earlier, but still he could not have been any better than no errors and that’s a fair amount of outfield assists for that many chances.
Have you ever seen Shafer play defense? I have and the kid will surprise you-only a tad behind Andruw-he’s that good an outfielder.
Now that Francoeur has dropped the 25 pounds he added prior to last season which slowed him considerably and gotten his orthotics which aided the ankle difficulties, nothing standing the way of his returning to Gold Glove form. I think the outfield is in good defensive shape.
By Thundersticks
December 16, 2008 12:24 PM | Link to this
I think the powers that be are just posturing when they say KJ will be moved to LF. I think that is the backup plan in case nothing else can get done, but I have a feeling Wren has another move or two working.
By Wayne (Furcal is OK, with Freel off the board)
December 16, 2008 12:24 PM | Link to this
ernesto Again, all we are doing is speculating on what we think the Braves might do. As for the 4 slot, it is way to early to start being concerned, as it is 3.5 months before opening day.
Also, I suspect the talk of KJ to left might be posturing on the part of the Braves.
By J.D.
December 16, 2008 12:24 PM | Link to this
Larry, you are WAY off base. Get your facts straight. Towers’ demands for Peavy were unreasonable, Wren gave him the best deal he would see for Peavy, but still refused. 5 years and 80 million was probably about as high as anyone would go for an-oft injured A.J. Burnett. There is no sense getting into a bidding war with the Evil Empire, as you will never win. This solves our 2nd biggest priority of the offseason: a run producing outfielder. Johnson can stroke the baseball, look at what he did when he went on his streak at the end of the season last year. If he can avoid the hot/cold streaks, it will be a terrific season for him. We now have the best middle IF in baseball, and if you don’t think that makes a big deal you are way off base. Huge range and terrific arms up the middle. Wren made a splash here. Braves have been getting some bad luck, but this one turned their way. I like what he has been doing.
By mike p in wc
December 16, 2008 12:27 PM | Link to this
WELCOME BACK RAFFY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
By WrenFlops
December 16, 2008 12:28 PM | Link to this
I’ll probably be the ONLY one saying this, but Furcal at second and KJ in left field may not be a bad move at all. One big problem with the Braves is that they sit back and wait for the three run homer rather than manufacture runs. At least Furcal gives them to ability to produce a few runs. KJ isn’t going to hit 30 home runs, but he can hit 20-25. In any case, they still don’t have the pitching they need to move past the Phillies or the Mets so Frank Wren may be patching something together and hoping to rebuild.
By Wayne (Furcal is OK, with Freel off the board)
December 16, 2008 12:29 PM | Link to this
James FYI, Kelly Johnson came through the system as a SS. Where ya been?
BO I kinda like the idea of having a guy who can play 3B with more pop than Infante or Prado.
By kirkinga
December 16, 2008 12:29 PM | Link to this
N8 sounds like you might be coming around afterall. :)
By TommyP
December 16, 2008 12:29 PM | Link to this
James: That was me with the E.Encarnacion suggestion. I think it makes tons of sense without spending tons in terms of prospects and $ while giving you lots of upside.
That said, the Braves brass is doing the right thing in saying that they’re keeping Furcal/Yunel and moving Kelly to LF. I don’t believe they’re doing that at all but this statement will make them look like they’re not desperate to move one of them.
By Original Jon
December 16, 2008 12:30 PM | Link to this
Braveheart Castillo was never or will never be the player that Furcal is and always has been. Get that straight.
By Lew
December 16, 2008 12:30 PM | Link to this
Ron E-Do the math Dude-With Vasquez costing $11.5 million and Furcal running around $10 mil, that leaves only about $18-20 mil (or a bit more based on salary projections) to get some more pitching if we move Kelly to left and put Furcal at second.. I think we can do it for that-don’t you?
By thirdwheel3131
December 16, 2008 12:31 PM | Link to this
DOB wrote:
“Sounds like Braves really are thinking of Furcal-Escobar as their DP combo and move Kelly J. back to left field, despite what team officials have said previously this winter. (Hey, desperate times call for ….)”
Call for what? No power? I’m sorry, Chipper and MAc wont play enough games to hit 30hr KJ is great — but his numbers at 2b are way more valuable than his numbers in LF
it makes much more sense to move him for ANkeil or Connor Jackson or even ludwick
Or — if possible — move Escobar (and prospects) for Grienke (or even peavy if such a thing is possible)
Keeping the lineup where it is gives us a solid B-level hitting core. But no real power. No big run producer. (unless frenchy wakes up). If they moved KJ for pitching, they could then sign Burrell or Dunn or Abreu.
But if this is really how it’s going to be — i ask this question, DOB…
If this is desperate times — why not give Ben sheets 14mil for 2 years, with a 3rd year option based on innings?
If they were willing to go 85mil and 5 years on AJ Burnett (so glad they did not), why not make a smaller gamble here on sheets.
Then at least we’d have a shot.
KJ in LF is just not the answer. He has too much value as a 280-20-80 (30+doubles) 2b — and there are teams who need that: IE Arizona, Saint Louis, even the Dodgers…
By N8
December 16, 2008 12:32 PM | Link to this
James
“Murph—the one difference between Chipper and KJ is that LF is KJ’s natural position…so maybe that potential move could spark his numbers.”
Uhh… Nope.
KJ was drafted as a SS, then moved to LF due to Braves needing a LF, and THEN moved to 2B when Giles was let go.
Don’t get me wrong, I think defensively (even though he’s worked his tail off with Hubbard), he’ll be better (more relaxed) defensively in LF, thus probably put up better numbers at the plate.
But LF is NOT is his natural position.
God help him, the first time he comes in on a ball, that is hit over his head, and ruins ANOTHER season for the Braves. :-)
By dan
December 16, 2008 12:33 PM | Link to this
OK, assuming the braves are being truthful about moving Kelly to LF, what other pitcher do we add this winter?
I assume it would have to be a free agent. Jon Garland, Oliver Perez?
By Jimmy V
December 16, 2008 12:34 PM | Link to this
We got back our point guard (leadoff hitter). We still however need a center (cleanup hitter) ‘cause the shooting guard (10) and power forward (16) are gonna miss at least 20% of the time. Don’t give up. Don’t ever give up!
By ernesto
December 16, 2008 12:34 PM | Link to this
Wayne, just a little state of the union, my man.
I realize it’s early days.
By Branch Rickey
December 16, 2008 12:34 PM | Link to this
YOU SIGN A SHORTSTOP COMING OFF MAJOR BACK SURGERY SO YOU CAN TRADE A YOUNGER, HEALTHY SHORTSTOP WITH MORE UPSIDE THAN FURCAL WILL EVER HAVE.
DUMB MOVE !
By Budweiser
December 16, 2008 12:38 PM | Link to this
This Bud’s for the juking and jiving, drinking and driving middle infielder
By James
December 16, 2008 12:38 PM | Link to this
I can’t believe we’re still talking about Burnett. He wasn’t worth the kind of money that was being talked about. I’d rather have Vasquez as we know what kind of numbers he’ll put up.
If the Braves are going to break the bank for a pitcher, wait until Tim Lincecum becomes a free agent, then offer him 20+ over five years…Make him a part-owner, change the name to the “Atlanta Braves now featuring Tim Lincecum.” Change the Sunday home hats to ones that say “TL” on them with his face on the tops so the Goodyear blimp can gaze down at his face scattered in nine spots all over Turner Field…whenever they introduce the Braves on the big screen, they can all say “I’m so glad we’ve got Tim Lincecum!”…go ahead and retire his number now…put up a statue of him…well…you get the idea….
Seriously, Lincecum, Hanson and Jurrjens in the staring roation…who could top taht?
By Dudeman
December 16, 2008 12:38 PM | Link to this
What? A 30-year old with a bad back? Why? OK, so Atlanta trades Escobar for a starter? One starter does not get you a playoff spot in a now tough NL East. And, when the inevitable happens, “Fookie” to the DL, who plays short now? And, even if he doesn’t go to the DL, shoertstops who can’t dive or don’t have great range doesn’t help that starter who you traded Escobar to get. And whoever you put in to play short if a DL stint happend isn’t going to be any better. I can see grounders that Escobar would scoop for DPs and putouts going through and runners moving all over. What were they thinking?
By Steve from OH
December 16, 2008 12:40 PM | Link to this
Pete Van Wieren did an interview talking about his time with the Braves…it’s really good, check it out here.
I’m gonna miss Pete.
By Jonathon
December 16, 2008 12:41 PM | Link to this
Why am I deriving pleasure from the fact that Peavy is still rotting on the Padres roster? Serves him right. He could still end up a Brave, but it won’t be in a trade involving Escobar. I wouldn’t mind screwing Towers with a lesser package to get Peavy, but I also wouldn’t mind seeing Peavy play for a 50-win team in 2009. Have fun, Jake.
By Where is the power?
December 16, 2008 12:42 PM | Link to this
Where is it?
By amorrow
December 16, 2008 12:43 PM | Link to this
what about sign wiggy and put chipper back in left? this team needs a future 3b and ty can hit very well - then trade yunel in a package for a pitcher (peavy or geinke) - i believe kelly is a natural SS so if anything happens to furcal kelly can move over to SS and put prado @ 2nd. anyone think this is good idea? or just me?
By ryan c
December 16, 2008 12:43 PM | Link to this
i hope this is a prequel to a francoeur (the real issue) trade. if we can get rid of francoeur and others for a solid high end rotation guy for cheap, then we can fill the right field gap with a power hitter. as of now, we have spent about 21 mil of the projected 45. that puts about 8 mil for smoltz, 5 mil for the new signee(if needed), and 11 mil for a power right field bat. i predicted the furcal signing with kj going back to left. i hope my newest prediction rings true. i still say to go after abreu. he wont cost any draft picks and could be had for a reasonable price (12 mil). his production, along with kj and schafer, would make a solid outfield.
who would bite on a francoeur trade? royals? reds? mariners? rockies?
By Nocturnal Owl
December 16, 2008 12:43 PM | Link to this
Bowman’s now saying the plan is to move KJ back to left
KJ won’t be the answer to the powerless OF. Then again I’d rather have KJ than Ludwick…
WELCOME BACK FOOKIE! We did need a true leadoff hitter to compete with Rollins, Reyes, and Hanley Ramirez.
By Nate
December 16, 2008 12:44 PM | Link to this
Looked at y itself signing Furcal involves some risk, but I wouldn’t call it a bad signing.
The thing is that the middle infield for the Braves was set. You can’t suddenly turn KJ into a cleanup hitter by moving him back to left field. And if you move him back to left field what do you do with Diaz? The Braves missed their chance to non-tender Diaz last week.
But does signing Furcal make Escobar trade bait? Given Furcal’s age and injury history its a good bet that Escobar will be a more productive player than Furcal over the next three years. That alone makes signing Furcal in order to trade Escobar look stupid, but when you consider Furcal’s 30 million dollar price tag it only gets worse.
In evaluating any Escobar trade, Furcal’s salary will have to be considered part of the price the Braves have paid.
I pointed out a few weeks ago that trading Escobar for Peavy and then signing Furcal would add an average of 26 million per year to payroll and only fill one hole. You could essentially view that move as costing the Braves 26 million per year plus prospect just to get Peavy. That still of course holds true.
By Dave
December 16, 2008 12:44 PM | Link to this
How is this an improvement over Escobar??? Escobar’s number for the last two seasons are .303/.373/.420. Furcal’s numbers for the same time period are .287/.360/.398. Furcal is 31 with his best years behind him and is coming off an injury. Escobar is five years younger with upside and will be paid a third year player’s salary. Excobar has better numbers, is younger, and is a lot cheaper. So why is this a good signing?
By Bubdylan
December 16, 2008 12:46 PM | Link to this
My new amibtion in life is to create a computer virus that recognizes obnoxious caps-lock use. When my virus hits, all you’ll ever get on your screen is a loop of that screaming German kid from youtube.
By Renegator
December 16, 2008 12:47 PM | Link to this
While I like this move because it doesn’t cost us any prospects - it still doesn’t address any of the off-season goals. We still need 2 top of the rotation pitchers and a clean hitter (preferably in the OF).
I would still like to see the Braves explore Ankiel for CF next year. He can bat cleanup between Chipper and BMAC and he is a big HR hitter. This also keeps us from forcing Schaefer into CF at the beginning of the year as he may not be ready yet.
Adding Furcal and Ankiel gives you a powerful lineup which will help off-set the lack of a front of the rotation starter. The Braves acutally have 0 front of the rotation starters - we have all #3s.
By Braves fan since the 60's
December 16, 2008 12:47 PM | Link to this
It’s simple, kept Yunel Escobar and move him to third base. Move Chipper Jones to first base and play Furcal at short, kept Kelly Johnson at second and your infield is set. Then make your move for another pitcher.
By cmac1919
December 16, 2008 12:48 PM | Link to this
..Moving KJ back to LF really isn’t accomplishing anything. We still don’t have a power-hitting outfielder or a “ace” pitcher
I liked the Furcal move at first, but now it’s not making much sense at all.
By N8
December 16, 2008 12:49 PM | Link to this
kirkinga
If this Peavy thing is dead, along with Burnett spurning our money for the Yankees, and the Braves having no interest in Lowe, the best option (as long as Wren is INSISTING on competing in 2009), was to upgrade the lineup.
As my post before stated, as long as Furcal is healthy, the impact he’ll have at the top of the order, will have more impact than any power bat we could have added (with the offense that would be going away by trading Escobar or KJ for said power bat).
Now, having said that, I wasn’t real sad to see Furcal go away when he did. He was a shell of his former self, his last year or two in a Braves uniform. He was swinging for the fenses and not doing the thing that got him to “the show” at such young (allegedly) age.
So if Furcal is interested in being a leadoff hitter and his healthy, he is a FANTASTIC pick up by Wren. If his back gives out, and he still swings for the fenses, it’s not so sexy.
As for me “coming around”? I’m still not for going for it in 2009, if it means trading away guys that might be repeat all-stars (Escboar), or at the very least an impact player.
But adding Furcal, is a very nice stop-gap type of move, that at the same time with some health and good luck, not only allows us to hang on to Escobar (for the future), but might have the impact on the lineup that helps us compete NOW.
The pitching could still be improved, but I’m counting on Smoltz, Glavine and Hanson contributing.
But as I stated before, with a catalyst at the top of the order like Furcal, and using the speed element to create runs, having innings eaters like Vasquez actually might work.
Meaning that if the rotation can be constructed of guys that can keep us in games, and save the bullpen, we might be able to manufacture enough wins using the speed game.
The playoffs (spoken in my worst Jim Mora impersonation)?? Well, not so sure that this rotation is geared up for post-season, provided we get there. But I’m not worried about that. Just want the team to improve and be prepared to make a serious run in 2010.
I guarantee/predict that our failure in 1-run games will cut in half with a true leadoff hitter like Furcal leading the charge.
Plus it leaves Escobar and KJ free to drive in runs, rather than being asked to set the table.
If Chipper wasn’t on this team, KJ would be a fine #3 hitter. If KJ doesn’t have to hit leadoff, he just might knock in 90+ runs.
It’s a start (and so far hasn’t compomised the FUTURE of the team - by dumping Escobar).
By Voice of Reason
December 16, 2008 12:49 PM | Link to this
Wow. Signing Furcal brings all kinda folks outta the woodworks…
By flange1
December 16, 2008 12:50 PM | Link to this
Afternoon All,
I for one am happy with the Furcal signing. I think the Braves are doing the right thing in saying they will keep everyone and then doing their normal undercover work on trades.
I remember DOB saying on his plane flight back from the winter meetings that he had 2 deals that were close, and 1 the other team had to make a preliminary move.
That really sounds like Pittsburg to me, they need to trade Jack Wilson (SS) or Freddie Sanchez (2B) to accept Yunel or KJ.
We will see what happens, but it should be fun to see!
By Kaygeeone
December 16, 2008 12:52 PM | Link to this
It’s about time that someone who works with/for the Braves makes a decision that is actually what’s best for the Braves. After years of Horrible trades, i.e. J.D Phew, getting rid of Tex, Not to mention letting Saltalamacchia go….it’s good to see someone act like they have a brain and make a good decision.
By James
December 16, 2008 12:54 PM | Link to this
Tommy P—That’s right, I remember it was you who suggested that…it’d be nice to see it happen.
Wayne—He may have originally been signed as a SS/3B, but he came up—and got significant playing time—in the majors as an OF.
He has never looked comfortable at 2B, either…I’ve seen too many bungled DP attempts and dropped fly balls he had to run for for my taste.
And, as for where have I been…I’ve been here for a long time—probably longer than you—and I’ve played this game as a “regular” on every level from Little League to High School to a mid-major University.
So, if you want to talk sh!t, go talk to someone else because I don’t give it, and I sure as hell don’t take it.
By ncscoots
December 16, 2008 12:54 PM | Link to this
Nate, I don’t think the Braves ever intended to non-tender Diaz, so it’s unlikely that they “missed their chance”. I guess it’s possible that the organization feels Johnson and Diaz in LF will provide at least equal production than another option with its attendant cost in dollars or prospects. I guess. Maybe the prospects that would have been used for a LF bat now go toward a pitching trade, who knows?
By spotts
December 16, 2008 12:55 PM | Link to this
Dave, you’re talking like Escobar’s gonna be sitting on the bench. He’ll either move positions or be traded.
By McFann O –[zzz]
December 16, 2008 12:56 PM | Link to this
Mark Bowmen says: Where Furcal would be positioned defensively remains to be seen. But the Braves have no intention to trade either Johnson or Escobar. Instead, they are planning to move Johnson back to left field, a position he played before moving to second base before the start of the 2007 season.
Don’t know if that’s been brought up or not. I just came back, and didn’t read over the whole Blog.
Braves, please do not trade Johnson.
By NCBravesFan
December 16, 2008 12:56 PM | Link to this
Shifting Johnson to LF, keeping Esco at SS and having Furcal at second makes sense and will really improve the offensive ability of the ballclub - provided Furcal can stay healthy.
High OBP at the top of the lineup = more opportunities = more runs. Pair that with a few 15-25 homer guys and you would figure to have a much more consistent offense.
It also takes pressure off of Schafer in CF in his rookie year - put him in the 7 or 8 hole and whatever he gives you is a bonus.
It would also be a pretty solid defensive ballclub. That would figure to help the pitching right there.
You’ve also got Infante backing up Chipper at 3B.
If this is the approach, I wonder if the Braves might just go ahead and sign a Randy Wolf type FA starter immediately, then roll the dice and hope that either Smoltz or Glavine can pitch next year?
By Andy
December 16, 2008 12:58 PM | Link to this
I think they would have been better off with Escobar at SS, Prado or Johnson at 2B. Withour Furcal’s salary, they could go get some starting pitching. Escobar has a career .297 BA and .97 fielding pct.
By Nate
December 16, 2008 12:59 PM | Link to this
A lead-off hitter is only guaranteed to lead-off once per game. The “need” for a prototypical lead-off hitter is over rated.
By wink from lithonia
December 16, 2008 12:59 PM | Link to this
Welcome back Furcal, we need a lead off hitter to help produce runs and force some errors. Pitching is going to be suspect anyway!
Maybe we can move Chipper to 1st base, Escobar at 3rd, Furcal at Short & Kelly at 2nd. We would max out defensively & provide some pop from the infield along with McCann’s. Obtain the best center fielder we can afford (or rookie Shaffer) and move the first baseman to left field to keep his bat in the line up and hope that Francoure can bounce back or Shaffer can go to right
By Efrim
December 16, 2008 12:59 PM | Link to this
Kelly Johnson should not be platooned.
By DAP
December 16, 2008 12:59 PM | Link to this
chris sabathia is actually making about 23mil per year…so much for you analogy.
ryan rios is locked up until 2014 for cheap money considering the market for a player at his caliber… no way the jays deal him.
right about being signed till 2014, wrong about him being cheap for a player of his caliber. he is not cheap. $12mil is too much for him, unless he starts hitting a few more homers.
By Worried
December 16, 2008 1:00 PM | Link to this
Although I’ve always liked Furcal, I’m not too sure this is the right move. I worry that Wren and friends are too fixated on the glory years of the 1990s and keep bringing back injury-prone retreads (i.e. Glavine) for sentimental, rather than baseball, reasons.
By Bluedar
December 16, 2008 1:00 PM | Link to this
me think Braves need pitching AND hitting and Braves should sign more pitchers AND hitters so Braves can win games and pennant and go to series and lose and then come back and sign more pitchers AND hitters so the cycle can happen again like laundry tag that says rinse and wash and repeat and i think it will be great for everyone and Braves will like it even if rafael furcals back stops hurting
By brianh
December 16, 2008 1:00 PM | Link to this
Okay we’re half way there offensively. My biggest concern with the Braves isn’t the lack of power these days. It is the fact we don’t put pressure on anyone. With Furcal we’ll now add pressure on the basepaths. Now since nodody is willing to unload a truly great powerhitter without giving up and arm and a leg. It is time to think about a speedy outfielder and trust that we have power in the OF already and that Frenchy will return. Turner Field by today’s standards (and that is sad) is considered a pitcher’s park anyway. Trust me, we could probably get a Juan Pierre a lot cheaper than a power hitting outfielder and it would give us two great table-setters and finally something to make the opposition nervous. Plus still free up revenue to go after Smoltzy and any other starting pitching this side of the Empire state. If I had my choice I keep Escobar though, remember when Renteria went down we could just move him over. I know we couldn’t do that with our current 2B.
By LarryM
December 16, 2008 1:00 PM | Link to this
J.D. and Salty -
I’m not saying that we should have upped the ante on Burnett or increased our offer on Peavy. What I’m pointing out is that both of those guys filled our biggest need for the offseason - a frontline pitcher.
Folks, going into the offseason we had two major needs: starting pitching and power from the OF. So far, the Braves have made two moves - trade for Vazquez (a #3 guy at best) and sign Furcal (giving us three good middle infielders - yippie!). Please tell me how either of these guys fill either of our two most prominent needs absent using the Furcal deal as the springboard for a trade?
Move KJ to LF and answer need #2? You must be kidding yourself. If that were realistic, why didn’t the Braves do it before? What makes you think that moving him to LF is magically going to up his power numbers? Yeah, KJ had a nice little run there to end the season. THAT is your evidence/proof that he can do that year-round simply because he has changed positions? Now please tell me who is off-base….
Yes, we made a very fair offer to get Peavy. Yes, we made a MORE than fair offer to Burnett. But neither panned out. We couldn’t even sign the Japanese guy we were targeting. This offseason has been an absolute failure so far. The Braves are trying to do it on the cheap again and we’ve seen the results the past few years.
At this point, since we’re bringing back former Braves, let’s see if we can swing a deal to put Andruw back in CF (I’m sure the Dodgers will be glad to get him off their roster), get Smoltzie and Glavine back in the starting rotation, and try to coax Maddux out of retirement for one more year. I hear Marcus Giles is still unemployed too.
By JJ
December 16, 2008 1:01 PM | Link to this
Escobar’s arm is just as strong and is more accurate than Furcal’s. Keep him and play him at SS, let Furcal play 2B. See what kind of pitcher you can get for KJ, if not move him to LF. If he can’t handle that full time, let him platoon or pinch hit. The team is improved either way, as long as they don’t trade Escobar. That would be an all-time mistake in my honest opinion.
By BravesFanInRockies
December 16, 2008 1:01 PM | Link to this
Lew,
If KJ replicates his 2007 production at the plate, then he’ll be fine in LF. Not the sort of masher we were hoping for, but fine, and better than we could expect from anyone on the current 25-man.
Now if he can put up the kind of numbers he did in the minors, then we have a winner!
And don’t get me wrong. I think he’s plenty athletic enough to play well in the outfield, as he did in 2005. (Actually saw him in Dodger Stadium that year, a few weeks before they called up Frenchy.)
And as one denizen said, he may relax more in the outfield, which could help his offense.
Besides, if Fookie breaks down, you can always move him back to 2B (though that’s not anybody’s Plan A, B, or G, for that matter!).
AND, if the Braves can’t add a top-of-the-rotation guy over the winter, there may be the payroll and prospect flexibility to do that during the season.
So if this is how the deal ends up, I could warm up to it after all.
By Nate
December 16, 2008 1:02 PM | Link to this
Continuing to platoon KJ at whatever position will only prevent his progression, and serve to keep him a streaky player offensively. He’s too good a player, with too much upside, to be wasted in a platoon.
By mr baseball
December 16, 2008 1:02 PM | Link to this
Puzzling deal. The Braves need a front line starter and/or a power bat for the middle of the lineup. This signing solves neither problem.
If the Braves turn around and trade Yunel, it confirms the belief that once players fall out of favor with Cox, they’re gone. But trading him would be risky, considering Furcal’s back issues and the absolute lack of a major league ready SS to replace him in the event of a serious injury.
If the Braves are going to take the risk of trading Escobar, about the only teams that need/might want a SS are Padres, Red Sox, White Sox, Royals, Twins, A’s and Blue Jays.
Some of the potential trade targets in an Escobar deal are obvious: Peavy, Greinke, Liriano, Halladay. Not sure why those 4 teams (other than the Padres) would trade any of them unless the Braves offered up some top prospects as well.
If the Braves go through with the plan of moving KJ to LF, that creates potential defensive problems at 2 positions and a possible uncomfortable situation regarding who is going to be forced to move from SS. That also leaves McCann to hit cleanup with the hope that a revived Francouer can drive in 100 runs hitting 5th. At any rate, lots of intentional BBs for Chipper.
Another possibility is that Wren is still looking for a big bat but does not fancy Dunn as the Braves’ cleanup hitter. Jermaine Dye, Jose Guillen or Matt Holliday may be available in an Escobar deal if the Braves want to use up the rest of their cash reserves.
By Steve from OH
December 16, 2008 1:03 PM | Link to this
Kelly Johnson should not be platooned.
Ditto. I like Diaz as a sort of backup OF/1B type maybe subbing for Kelly against a tough lefty or just for the occasional day off, not as a platoon partner.
By ABravesFan
December 16, 2008 1:03 PM | Link to this
**DOB ‘Also keep in mind, Braves won’t have to give up any draft picks if they do it this way, rather than sign a free agent.
Hey, every little bit counts when you’re in their spot.’**
This is the one year the braves should not worry about this since their first round pick is protected and signing a type A free agent will only cost them a second rounder.
By BILL
December 16, 2008 1:03 PM | Link to this
O.K well lets looks at the K.J stats……he’s played 648.1 inn. in of and has 0 error’s so he can probably play out there, BUT 15-20 homers?? In 1358 AB he hits HR every 36.7 AB, an RBI every 7.67 AB, so if he gets 500 AB this year he should have stats like this. 13.62 HR, and 65.18 RBI. He has 371 hits and 305 strike outs. This is’nt what we need in lf. So we didn’t get anywhere with this move if we don’t get the trade we need.
By Ozzie
December 16, 2008 1:03 PM | Link to this
KJ natural or original position was SS and he stunk enough there that they moved him to LF in the minors.
He then blew out his arm and had TJ. When he came back the Braves tried him in LF and watched him struggle going 1-40 out of the gate. Defensively he was ok but I cannot recall anything outstanding.
When it looked like Giles had worn out his welcome they offered KJ a shot at 2B.
So who really knows what his natural position is but he is a good 2B with some upside in that spot.
He is not the power threat then need at clean up and in LF.
By Jim
December 16, 2008 1:04 PM | Link to this
DOB:
Have a good Christmas holiday. Can’t believe we are going to be without you for that long.
Question: what was B’s total production at 2B and LF last year? What would KJ and Furcal project at those positions? Might answer question of how much of an upgrade signing Furcal and moving KJ to LF might be. Surely, we’d get a few intangibles at top of order. Batting Order: RF, KJ, Esco, Chipper, McCann, Kotch, Francoeur, CF, Pitcher. Two OFs should not bat that low in good lineup. Still need some work there.
By Dan
December 16, 2008 1:06 PM | Link to this
DOB
Two Points.
Doesnt moving KJ back to the OF diminish his value? The Braves have shown a reluctance to do this with their slugging catchers (Salty and Flowers). KJ projects to be one of the best hitting 2Bs in the game.
Is it possible the Braves are saying this to avoid sounding desparate? Anything other than saying we are moving KJ to left would mean that the Braves HAVE to trade either KJ or Yunnel. Teams would wait for the Braves to engage them in trade talks so that they have the upper hand. By saying that we are content with Kelly in LF, it might encourage clubs that really want Yunel or KJ to engage the Braves in trade talks.
By Original Jon
December 16, 2008 1:06 PM | Link to this
wink from lithonia Seriously?? another post about Chipper moving to 1st base? Seriously? It aint happening, so why do you and everyone else insist on Chipper moving to first? Not happening, at all.
By BravesFanInRockies
December 16, 2008 1:07 PM | Link to this
NCBravesFan,
Yeah, I wonder if Wren isn’t planning some low-risk FA signing that won’t break the bank, like a Wolf or a Looper, who would be more reliable than counting on JoJo or Morton or Smoltz or Glavine to make 30 starts.
Not an ace, mind you, but dependable and of decent quality until Huddy returns and Hanson and the kids are ready to rumble.
By ernesto
December 16, 2008 1:07 PM | Link to this
I wonder how much a guy like Burrell will get in this market?
By Tomahawkin
December 16, 2008 1:08 PM | Link to this
“So if Furcal is interested in being a leadoff hitter and his healthy, he is a FANTASTIC pick up by Wren. If his back gives out, and he still swings for the fenses, it’s not so sexy.”
N8 I like that assessment of Furkey…If we get the Furcal of 2000-01 leadoff hitter then this is a solid move, but if we get the Contract year 05 Furkey (The one that swung for the fences) then I’m not so keen on this move
The talks of going after Halliday kind of make sense, but I only see Halliday being dealt, if and only if the Jays are out of the AL East race Midway through next year…
Also does anyone Know of any Rumors concerning Dunn, or Bobby Abreu…?
I for one would like to see either one down in the “A”…
Call me crazy but I’d take Dunn’s Power over his defensive ineptitude…And Abreu could easily have 40 doubles and 95-100 rbi’s given that everything falls into place…
Aight, gotta go back to watching New York Undercover on Youtube…
By nitram odarp
December 16, 2008 1:09 PM | Link to this
with furcal back in the fold do you think there is any chance of getting madduz out of retirement
then you would have a rotation of maddux glavine smoltz millwood (we would trade for him) and hanson
then why bring back AJ and we we would have a #4 batter
one last reunion tour imagine all the money infact lets move chipper back to left and bring TP of the bench to play 3rd
By Interested Observer
December 16, 2008 1:10 PM | Link to this
I still think Escobar or Johnson will end up being traded. This probably just means they don’t have a trade lined up yet ready to go. Furcal couldn’t hold off forever and the Braves needed to sign him while they still could. Johnson to left is a decent contingency plan if they don’t find a deal they like, but I bet they will before too long.
By ernesto
December 16, 2008 1:10 PM | Link to this
Not that I would EVER want the Braves to bring in Pat the Bat
By Herschel Talker
December 16, 2008 1:10 PM | Link to this
Robert(Chipper Is The Best):
You are an idiot and should be banned from posting. What a ridiculous post.
HT
By Nate
December 16, 2008 1:10 PM | Link to this
Maybe Wren is planning to have Furcal pitch!
By Lowcountry Bulldawg
December 16, 2008 1:11 PM | Link to this
Welcome back Budwieser!
By TennesseePaul
December 16, 2008 1:11 PM | Link to this
kirkinga: Yes there is legit concern about his back, but Rafael is a known quantity
Wouldn’t the “legit concern about his back” make him an “unknown quantity”?
Lew: I also don’t care about seeing Rios play in Atlanta
I remember two years ago you were suggesting the Braves attempt to acquire the guy. I hadn’t heard of him until you suggested it. Why the change of heart?
I would think the rumored deal for Halladay and Rios is a bit light. I question whether the Jays would actually trade Halladay. But I recall reading that they might be more open to it if AJ were lost. The piece I read, which I can’t find now, implied that if AJ were to resign, Roy would be offered a contract extension. If not, Roy might be available. I thought it seemed odd at the time that the Jays future rested in the hands of a man they gave an opt-out clause…
As for KJ in left field… I don’t really believe it. There must be another move being lined up. I think any KJ in left field talk is pre-trade posturing. Otherwise every team would go to the bargaining table knowing the Braves had to move one of KJ or Yunel. With this talk, the Braves can still say “We don’t have to move either, we’re just fine with this.” See, what I’m trying to say here is, it’s all about hand.
By Original Jon
December 16, 2008 1:14 PM | Link to this
Here’s a promising stat, in 2005 Kelly Johnson played 79 games in Left Field and commited 0 errors. Yes, you read that right, ZERO errors in 648.3 innings. He also had 6 assists.
Also, he had 9 homers in 87 games, so if he were to play a full season, he could easily double that total, and that would be his career high.
I have a feeling that a move back to the outfield will help him focus more on his offense and not be so worried about his defense if he were at second base.
Heck, for all we know, Kelly approached Wren and asked if he could be moved back to the outfield. Who knows.
By TennesseePaul
December 16, 2008 1:14 PM | Link to this
about the only teams that need/might want a SS are Padres, Red Sox, White Sox, Royals, Twins, A’s and Blue Jays
You left a team out. The Dodgers are now in need of a good MLB short stop…
By AGTfan
December 16, 2008 1:14 PM | Link to this
I’m curious
Most everyone agreed that Hanson was untouchable at least in the Peavy deal. Would any of you consider as a possiblity if you could get Halliday?
By J.D.
December 16, 2008 1:14 PM | Link to this
Larry- I never said that Kelly switching positions would magically increase his power numbers. I said that if he continued his production from the end of last season, he would be a legit 20-25 HR guy in LF. Considering that the Braves hit 27 home runs or something close to that total in the OF last year, that is certainly an improvement. They never moved Kelly to LF before because they did not have a legitimate everyday replacement. I like Prado as much as the next guy, but his defense is suspect. Now we have a legitimate middle IF in Furcal, and a decent power hitter and run producer in Johnson in left.
By Bobby's Cox
December 16, 2008 1:15 PM | Link to this
Saw a few “Prado supporters” chiming in wanting him to start. So, I thought the biggest prado supporter should respond…here i am.
Furcal and Esco will be the best middle infield in the league and an upper tier 1-2 lineup punch. There’s no room for prado now but the bench, and i’m more than happy with that. With injury prone chipper and furcal, he’ll see a lot of time anyway.
Personaly, i thought they should’ve moved Kelly back to LF last year & let both play everyday. Said that plenty times during the season. KJ would’ve had more experience out there. That is not his natural position James. They moved him there because he was so terrible at his “natural” SS positon. But he’d be better out there than all other current options, including Prado.
I really hope we keep Esco and Furcal together. Although the pitching we could get for Esco would be outstandng, the 2 would bring an energy to the team that’s been lacking. I’m excited to see them play together.
By ncscoots
December 16, 2008 1:15 PM | Link to this
Guys, in no way was I suggesting that Kelly be platooned, if he ends up in LF. But Diaz is going to get some AB out there, if he is on the squad. He’s not going to get arb money just to get 100 PH AB.
Frankly, I was just noodling on what might be the Braves’ mindset in moving KJ to LF. If it happens.
By David O'Brien
December 16, 2008 1:16 PM | Link to this
T-hawkin’ Braves are not interested in Dunn. Haven’t been, still aren’t, never were. If Kelly’s going to LF (and it sounds like he is, from what I’m told), they’re not going to sign a big free agent OF, barring some big turn of events.
By DAP
December 16, 2008 1:17 PM | Link to this
Lester Maddox
WELCOME HOME FECAL
ha!
guys, keep in mind that wren could be saying they plan to keep and play all three guys so that he doesnt burn any bridges if he is actually forced to do that.
By Bobby's Cox
December 16, 2008 1:18 PM | Link to this
I don’t know why everyone’s so worried about 1st base. Kotchman’s a solid hitter and great fielder. He’s going to have a good year.
Personally, I’m more worried about RF.
By Herna
December 16, 2008 1:18 PM | Link to this
IF its true that KJ, Esco are not going anywhere…then im one dissapointed fan….they need one of those as trade Bait to get A #1 or # 2 Elite Starting Pitcher(Greinke, Peavy,etc)or Wren is just playing tricks and not letting the media know about his next move for starting pitching WE STILL need PITCHInG, MR WREn!!!
By Green Tea
December 16, 2008 1:19 PM | Link to this
Or…. Maybe Chipper has finally decided to make the move to 1B since we are playing guessing games at this point. It could happen.
By Ron H
December 16, 2008 1:19 PM | Link to this
The NL East is going to be one of the two toughest divisions in baseball…by far
By Wayne in Utah
December 16, 2008 1:19 PM | Link to this
James WOOO, I am impressed. Actually, we will have to disagree. I haven’t seen enough “bungled DP opportunities” or “dropped flyballs” to say that KJ is anything less than an average second baseman.
And if you call 79 gameS in left field “significant”, then so be it. The Braves were in dire need of an outfielder when KJ was brought up. He had played extremely little in the outfield in the minors, having mostly played SS and some 3B.
Also, I have been here quite a while myself. I was just puzzled by your words, and by your hurt feelings for my “Where you been.” comment.
Your words: LF is KJ’s natural position
Do we say that second base is Escobar’s natural position because he played quite a bit there in 2007?
So, while I would be remiss in trying to start some sh!t, I am puzzled that you are so touchy when it is obvious that you made an erroneous statement.
Otherwise, have a great day!
By Murphy
December 16, 2008 1:21 PM | Link to this
When mentioning the dollars the Braves had to spend this off-season, please remember that Smoltzie and Glavine fall outside of that amount. This was reported many, many times at the end of the season.
By KC
December 16, 2008 1:22 PM | Link to this
Well, I’m sure the Braves are thinking about Furcal at 2B and KJ in right… that is, if their other hopes and plans fall through.
But I don’t believe for a second that they’re content to leave it at that. Furcal to 2B - KJ to RF is plan “B”.
Plan “A” is to use Escobar as the centerpiece for a top-of-rotation starter.
Let’s hope plan “A” works out.
By Chopaholic
December 16, 2008 1:24 PM | Link to this
There is no way I would include Escobar in a trade for Peavy or Grienke. Let’s keep them both. Great pickup Frank!
By DannyFish
December 16, 2008 1:24 PM | Link to this
One thing that hasn’t really been mentioned is the possibility that Frenchy bounces back from his poor performance last year and does what many people thought he would do last year. The 2 years before that you could expect about 20-25 homers and around 100 RBI’s.
If he can get close to that and Kelly can have a decent year with maybe 15-20 homers and 80 RBI’s then this move will look awesome.
Personally I think last year was a fluke as far as how little power we had in the outfield. Frenchy is better than he showed and personally I hope we don’t get rid of him in a trade, as I think we would be selling him extremely low. The majority of the time a player doesn’t go from “Future Face of the Franchise” to being awful in one season. He has the skills and after a couple of promising seasons I’d like to see him rebound and get in his comfort zone.
I believe that Kelly and Frenchy alone will surpass the total of last years outfielders. Then add whoever plays in center (possibly Schafer) and whatever they produce is just icing.
Plus it will be an awesome middle infield with two ultra athletic guys in Fookie and Esco. And you can’t underestimate the importance of having a proven leadoff man.
Good move Frank Wren! Now if we can add another SP and hang onto Smoltz I think we have a real chance to compete next year.
By kirkinga
December 16, 2008 1:24 PM | Link to this
All I know is that the Braves have more proven talent on their roster than they did yesterday. That’s a good thing, yet so many insist on finding a problem with anything and everything.
Had the Mets or some other team signed Furcal we would be hearing how the Mets are that much better than the Braves now, just as we saw when the Phillies signed Ibanez who’s 36.
The Phils also resigned Moyer who’s 46 and Chan Ho Park who’s just sorry.
Furcal helps to close the talent gap.
By LTBravesFan
December 16, 2008 1:24 PM | Link to this
An infield of Chipper, Escobar, Furcal, and Kotchman, sounds like a dang good defensive infield and a ton of speed in the outfield Johnson, Anderson/Blanco/Schafer, and Frenchy.
Still looks to be short on power…. Maybe Bobby needs to change his managing style to adjust to some of this speed?!?!?
By Mark
December 16, 2008 1:24 PM | Link to this
DOB,
Who are the Braves pitching options now??
By YoungBuck
December 16, 2008 1:26 PM | Link to this
Kelly was drafted as a short-stop
By Wayne in Utah
December 16, 2008 1:26 PM | Link to this
James After ripping you a bit for being so short tempered, I would have to add that my gut tells me someone gets traded (Escobar or KJ). BUT, if they don’t I would be perfectly OK with using KJ as the primary LF’er, and even have him in reserve if needed at third base when/if Chipper misses some time.
But, I suspect he somebody gets traded. I think we will see 1-2 more deals in the next few weeks.
By ssiscribe
December 16, 2008 1:26 PM | Link to this
Top of the afternoon, good denizens of the Braves/MIB. Busy day, for sure, so I’ll keep this short.
I like the signing of Furcal You’re getting the leadoff hitter this team has sought since … well, since Furcal left after 2005. You’re getting a guy with a good OBP who works counts, a guy who will play great defense (be it short or second). You’re getting a guy who will give this team options on what step to take next.
I read Bowman’s story about the Braves moving Kelly back to LF. For now, I didn’t expect to hear anything different publicly. But, I have no doubt the Braves will be attracting interest for both KJ and Escobar, and if a move presents itself that allows the Braves to part with one of them to upgrade the rotation, they’ll seriously consider it.
Were it me running the show, I’d try like heck not to trade Escobar. But Yunel has more trade value than KJ, and were the Padres and Mr. I Want Everything Kevin Towers to come calling again in regards to Peavy, I think you have to at least listen. You just don’t get the chance to lock up a Cy Young winning, game-changing ace that is locked up on the cheap for the next four years everyday. You have to at least listen.
More likely, the Braves would deal KJ as the key part of a package that lands them a Grienke or a Maholm, a young pitcher who is developing into what could be a very solid No. 2 starter in time. You slot the new arm behind Jurrjens and Vazquez, then you use the cash you didn’t use to sign a starter and try to land a power-hitting left fielder (Adam Dunn, anybody?).
And yes, I know the Braves have said they are not interested in Dunn and have said that all offseason. I know that. But dude has jacked 40 homers in each of the past four years …
Or, you keep KJ in left and use the cash to sign a second-level starter, like a Wolf or a Garland, and you roll with a lineup that won’t be deep on power, but will feature guys who get on base and hit a lot of doubles. Get a bounce back of some sort from Francoeur, which I think most of us expect, and you’re talking about a pretty decent lineup, minus the big bopper in the middle.
And in that scenario, you have a decent rotation, with a very good bullpen and a good defensive team. Methinks that’ll compete in the NL East.
But if you’ve got a chance to land somebody of Peavy’s ilk, then you have to seriously consider it. You put Peavy at the top of this rotation for the next four years, man, that’s pretty enticing. You now have a shortstop if you trade Escobar, a darn good one at that.
All of this to circle back to this morning. The Braves made a very good move with Furcal. He will help this team with his stick, his speed and his glove, and his presence on the roster gives management the one thing they didn’t seem to have after being frustrated by Towers and spurned by Burnett:
Options.
The Hot Stove continues to simmer. Duty calls!
The Scribe abides
—30—
By Steve from OH
December 16, 2008 1:27 PM | Link to this
Well, if the plan is to stand pat with Furcal, Esco and Johnson, Frank Wren had better give Boras a call about Lowe (not Perez), and forget about Garland and Wolf. We still need good pitching and Lowe is just that. Wolf, Perez, and Garland are not. Plus, he won’t cost us any prospects and our #7 draft pick is protected.
Either way, if we do stand pat, I think that sort of marginalizes what Josh Anderson (not that we needed Furcal to do that, lol) brings to the table, since Furcal will be leading off and most of the team (Esco, Johnson, Francoeur, Chipper and whoever the CF is) all run well. We need more power, and JA doesn’t bring that. I hope Schafer starts in CF and Hanson opens the season as the #5 man.
By Efrim
December 16, 2008 1:28 PM | Link to this
This is hilarious. Furcal’s signing creates more options/flexibility, which in turn creates more talk about trade proposals on this blog.
I would like to believe Frank Wren signed Furcal to play second base and is moving KJ to LF, but it is difficult for me to see that actually happening. Wren signed him because the A’s were about to ink him. Now Wren still needs to keep leverage in trade talks, so he’ll spin it.
All that said, I wouldn’t mind having KJ in LF and Furcal at second base. Better run prevention squad, but still, there is a need for power. Also, they stilll need to nab some starting pitching. We’ll just have to wait and see how this all plays out.
By southgabrave
December 16, 2008 1:29 PM | Link to this
DOB, could the braves thought be to keep Johnson and Escobar along with adding RF , so that Esco could move over to 3rd to replace Chipper in a few more years? Moving Johnson to the outfield until then.
Anyhow I see Johnson as an improving hitter, and Esco just has to much upside to let go while he is still cheap for several years.
By brent a.
December 16, 2008 1:29 PM | Link to this
Don’t the Braves pretty much have to say, at this point, that they aren’t trading Escobar or Johnson?
After-all, it’s not as if these are two high-salary guys, for which Wren would be required to make a public proclamation about needing to dump salary.
Until the next move (if any) is made, then the Braves have to plan as if both guys will be here.
But, I don’t think you really sign Rafael Furcal, and say, “we’re not sure yet what we’re going to do with him.” You’ve gotta have a plan in place when you make that big of a signing.
Remember what Kinzer said before the GM meetings: He noted that Furcal was planning to wait because some other moves needed to be made.
Perhaps the Braves signed Furcal because it was the only move they could make; but, it just makes more sense at this point, to believe that something else is on the horizon. After-all, we do still need some pitching.
By mbatl
December 16, 2008 1:29 PM | Link to this
I know he’s not “on the radar”, but Derek Lowe would make so much sense. With Escobar and Furcal up the middle, we’d be well suited to his ground-ball tendencies. And with (hopefully) Schafer in CF, the up-the-middle defense would be awesome.
I have confidence that KJ would play a good LF, and without the stress of playing 2B, would be good for something like .280/.365/.460, with 15-20 HR and a lot of doubles.
Let McCann hit cleanup, and on his days off, move Chipper into the 4-spot with KJ hitting 3rd. (plus, we’ve got a much-better-hitting BUC in Ross than we’ve had in the past)
Anyway, assuming Vazquez and Furcal eat up about $23 mil of the available cash, there’s money to sign Lowe and be done with it, for the most part.
Re-sign Smoltz and Ohman (and not glavine, IMO), for a rotation of Lowe, JJ, Vazquez, Smoltz, Campillo/Hanson/Morton/Reyes… and a lineup of Furcal, Escobar, Chipper, McCann, KJ, Kotchman, Schafer and Frenchy.
This lineup would offer a lot of doubles, and excellent OBP. Maybe not a lot of HR, but probably more than last year (when we finished 6th in NL scoring).
I’d rather do that (sign Lowe) than spend big bucks on Dunn or Burrell, just for the sake of an extra 10-15 HR. And you’ve kept all your key prospects and young players (Prado, B. Jones, Gorkys, Hanson, Freeman, Heyward, Rohrbough, Locke, etc) for future play or trade.
By Lew
December 16, 2008 1:30 PM | Link to this
Bill-KJ has hit 16 HR in a season for the Braves already, so yes I would say that 15-20 HR IS a realistic goal for him. If Frenchy can come back to the 20-25 HR mark (not that farfetched an idea, though some here have no clue) and Kotchman can hit his 20-25, we should have plenty of power with what Mac and Chipper contribute in that department. Add that to the obvious speed that Furcal brings (not to mention HIS power) and I think we can field a relatively potent to quite potent offense.
Rene-I believe that Wren’s exact words were that he would like to add two VETERAN pitchers to the rotation NOT named Smoltz and Glavine. I’m not sure where everyone got this Top of Rotation thing from, but go back and check the quotes. Exactly what two top of rotation guys or an ACE were realistically available? Sabbathia? Sure. Peavy? We tried, but the price was absurd. Burnett? Were we really happy with him as an alternative? Was he really an Ace, anyway?
As for deciding to change the goals for the offseason-sometimes your plan A doesn’t work. It is a sign of adaptability, NOT weakness to be able to change as the situation changes. Sometimes what you want to happen just ain’t going to happen, so you change direction a bit and do what you have to do.
By Joe
December 16, 2008 1:30 PM | Link to this
Great Signing I’ am glad Rafael Furcal is returning to Atlanta. I think now Derek Lowe should follow Furcal and come to Atlanta.
By Original Jon
December 16, 2008 1:30 PM | Link to this
Herna Dude, dont have an embolism or a stroke, if the Furcal signing is at about 10 million, that leaves us with 18.5 million to sign another pitcher or two. Or it gives us great leverage to trade for a pitcher with our surplus of middle infielders.
Dont worry dude.
By Don't Trade Franceour, Sheesh
December 16, 2008 1:30 PM | Link to this
NOW LET’S SIGN SMOLTZ AND GLAVINE AND TAKE BACK THE EAST!
By raindawg722
December 16, 2008 1:31 PM | Link to this
Braveheart, I just went back and read your post about the blogger who posted under your moniker touting an outfield of Blanco, Schaeffer, Anderson, Francouer, and Diaz. I apologize for even thinking for one second that you could have made such an inane comment.
By Bobby's Cox
December 16, 2008 1:32 PM | Link to this
The braves saying KJ to left may just be a PR move to get other teams more interested in KJ/Escobar. Many teams may not have considered KJ in LF.
By Braveheart
December 16, 2008 1:32 PM | Link to this
Braveheart Castillo was never or will never be the player that Furcal is and always has been. Get that straight.
Original Jon, Furcal had more power and had a better arm. Castillo was a better defender relative to his position although Furcal was a better defender relative to overall baseball ability. Castillo had a better eye. They were just as good as each other as baserunners.
Furcal was the better baseball player because he could play short and slug more but Furcal wasn’t light years better than Castillo. Furcal was just on your favorite team so you’re biased. Furcal also broke in with a glamor team that the national media was shoving down everyone’s throats. Everyone also believed he was a 19 year old phenom when he was a rookie so he got hyped when he arrived in a way he otherwise wouldn’t have been..
per 162:
Furcal: 731 pas, 653 ABs, 187 Hits, 66 Walks, 51 XBHs, 12 homers, .286 AVG, .352 obp, .412 slg, 36 stolen bases, 96 OPS+, UZR/150: -3.4
Castillo: 715 pas, 627 ABs, 183 Hits, 75 walks, 28 XBHs, 3 homers, .292 AVG, .367 obp, .355 slg, 37 stolen bases, 93 OPS+, UZR/150: 3.9
my point is teams need to be wary about signing aging, small guys whose games are so reliant on their legs. Like Castillo and so many other small fast guys in the history of the game, alot of the value Furcal gives is beating out infield hits and bunts, having more range defensively, turning doubles into triples, scoring from first on a double, scoring from second on a single. The value of their legs however fades away due to age and injuries. When their legs go, their bodies and heads need to take over.
Furcal brings more value with his body than Castillo because he slugs better but Furcal doesn’t bring much value at all as a slugger. Castillo’s body failed him with his hip. Furcal’s body is failing him with his bum back. All they have left then is their heads.
Maybe Furcal can transition his game like Ray Durham and Marquis Grissom did …… or maybe he falls off a cliff like Castillo, Roberto Alomar, Chuck Knoblauch and so many other tiny fast guys in the history of the game ….
By Original Jon
December 16, 2008 1:32 PM | Link to this
Wonder if the market has completely dried up for Lowe yet? Havent heard much mentioned about him at all lately. Maybe if it dries up a little more, we can get him for about 14 million for 4 years.
Hmmmm
By Cop Hamsem
December 16, 2008 1:34 PM | Link to this
An outfield of KJ, Jeffy, and Schafer/Blanco/Anderson is pretty weak too me…..i dont see it as a great improvement from last years..he’s not a Power bat..maybe 15 HR,60-70 RBI but thats it for KJ…
If Wren turns around and trades Kelly for a LF or starting pitcher then picks up whichever he didn’t get on the free agent market, then I might like this signing more..We need more pitching..PLEASEEE Wren… go find some pitching..use that surplus Middle infilders you have and trade for a #1 or # 2 pitcher
By Tomahawkin
December 16, 2008 1:34 PM | Link to this
D.O.B. It’s kind of suprising that I’ve not heard of many rumors concerning A. Dunn. My guess is that his contract demands maybe too high…
D.O.B. Do you have any word about How K.J. Feels about moving to LF again…
Also concerning Abreu, unfortunately I think he winds up with the mets…
Big Turn of events, lol But Furcal coming back to the “A” Stunned my narrow a…s,
Also does anyone see Hanson Being pressed into the starting role if Both Glavine and Smoltz Don’t Return…?
I for one wouldn’t mind seeing him in the rotation come opening day…
D.O.B. If you like old rap, I’m Pretty Sure you will dig some old Souls of Mischief “This Is How We Chill From 93 Til” Also I’ve been bumping the hell out of some old Pharcyde…
By Mark
December 16, 2008 1:35 PM | Link to this
Hey Dave. Looking forward to hearing you with Steiner in a few minutes. Where are you hearing that the Braves are planning on putting KJ in left? Doesn’t it make sense that they would say that even if they are planning on moving him or Esco? Otherwise, their values are just shot ..
By Original Jon
December 16, 2008 1:37 PM | Link to this
ssiscribe I thought you said you were keeping it short, lol
By brent a.
December 16, 2008 1:37 PM | Link to this
One thing that hasn’t really been mentioned is the possibility that Frenchy bounces back from his poor performance last year and does what many people thought he would do last year. The 2 years before that you could expect about 20-25 homers and around 100 RBI’s. DannyFish
Really? No one has mentioned the possibility of Francoeur bouncing back?
Since when? 1:20 PM today?
By Lew
December 16, 2008 1:38 PM | Link to this
TenPaul-Two years ago he hadn’t signed a huge contract or had the disappointing year he had last season. I’m also not so sure I really pushed all that much for his acquisition.
By GB
December 16, 2008 1:38 PM | Link to this
Please keep Kelly. This guy’s gonna be a great player.
By Weldon
December 16, 2008 1:39 PM | Link to this
DOB - What are the chances that Wren/Bowman are just blowing smoke with the KJ to LF rumblings? It’s obviously bad business to publicly admit you need to make a trade…
I just ask because Bowman saying it means Wren wants it out there, but if you say it, there could be something to it. And it to be seems a pretty dumb waste of resources…
By Richie
December 16, 2008 1:39 PM | Link to this
If this Halladay/Rios rumor has any validity to it, wouldn’t including Schafer in the deal make much more sense since he is older than Hernandez? Rios would be here until he is 33. That is a long time to keep someone in the wings unless Rios(if acquired) or Frenchy moves to left field, if KJ or Escobar is traded. I am guessing on this, any thoughts?
By rastus
December 16, 2008 1:41 PM | Link to this
Read between the lines folks ….. …the Furcal acquisition is trade-bait ….for a top starter.
C’mon ya’ll!
By N8
December 16, 2008 1:42 PM | Link to this
Bobby’s Cox
I second your 1:18 post.
By David O'Brien
December 16, 2008 1:42 PM | Link to this
I’ve got a new story up online, updated with move of Kelly to OF, etc.
Two things to consider, which I’m sure the Braves have: The positive influence of Furcal on Escobar, who now has another Latin player in what an infield with only one fluent Spanish speaker last season. That’s potentially very big. Renteria was a great influence on Escobar, in clubhouse and overall.
And 2., perhaps Kelly can relax and flourish in OF, not worried about making some defensive plays at a position where he never really looked too comfortable (2B). He can now focus more on his hitting.
Just things to think about.
By Dadgum
December 16, 2008 1:43 PM | Link to this
Thank You Frank Wren….if reports are accurate you have substantiated my posts of several blogs. I am reading on FoxSports et al that KJ is now looking like the Braves best option in LF.
Appears the Braves will UPGRADE with Prado at 2nd with Furcal at SS and KJ in LF. Has made a lot of sense for a long time. With the impending signing of Furcal the Braves still need a legit #1 or #2 starter or maybe both depending on Smoltz. While Escobar is a great talent, we had him gone two months ago. Remember?
Bravos won’t be keeping Escobar. No sir. Not if they want top pitching in return. Fact is maybe they don’t. Just maybe they aren’t confident in Furcal going a full year so they will put him at 2nd and keep Escobar and sign some more #3/4 type starters. They can sub for him at 2nd easier than SS. Any case KJ is gone from 2nd but his bat is in LF with 20+ homer potential and speed. I like it but I have liked the idea of it for a long time. Apparently now the Braves are seeing the same thing.
Even with this signing, the question begs how do you keep Smoltz if indeed the braves don’t trade or sign a clear #1 or #2 starter to be a serious playoff threat. My guess is that Smoltz plays only this year and wants to have a solid shot to get a ring again. If the Braves do get a Halliday or Greinke then I think the Braves have a solid shot at signing Smoltz.
Halliday/Greinke, Smoltz, Vazquez, Jurrjens, Hanson. That is far better a rotation than the Phillies won with. By far.
Rock on…..note that if the Braves trade Escobar they will have replaced both middle infield positions. Something the braves said they absolutely would not do. This is going to get interesting. Look for a trade later today.
By Heath
December 16, 2008 1:43 PM | Link to this
I think that KJ will be just fine in left..I think he would hit .275-.300, 15-20HR, 60-80RBI, .360-.390OBP…maybe about 4-5 errors in the field for the year…I’d take that…especially at the price. I actually think that an easier defensive position will give him more time to work on his offense…he would be a great 6-7 place hitter:
1.Furcal 2B, 2.Escobar SS, 3.Chipper 3B, 4.McCann C / Francoeur RF, 5. Francoeur RF / McCann C, 6.Kotchman 1B, 7.Johnson LF, 8.Schafer CF
I think you could expected team run totals to be between 775-825 with that lineup. Let’s not forget…the Phillies scored 799 runs last year…we scored only 46 runs less than them…it was our pitching that consistently let us down. I think the lineup is fine…not too many strikeouts…good contact and gap hitters…better lineup for rallies.
Where we really fell short was that we gave up 778 runs last year. With a middle infield of Escobar and Furcal (at 2B) I think that the defense will help reduce the number of runs (KJ will not make our LF defense any worse). Really, all we need is Francoeur to be decent in run-producing situations like he was a couple of years ago (not out of the question), Smoltz to be Smoltz, and and one other better than average pitcher. Phillies only had one lockdown pitcher (Smoltz qualifies when he is healthy.) The Braves just need one more pitcher in my view. I say throw all kinds of money toward Moore for Grienke or to Towers for Peavy…we got it…they need it.
By nique
December 16, 2008 1:44 PM | Link to this
I’m sorry but if the intent of Wren and the Braves is to keep both KJ and Yunel after this signing, then Wren surely seals the deal on this being a failure of an offseason. And I don’t care how early it is, since Wren will have opted not to trade his main components in most trade scenarios.
Kelly Johnson does not put up outfield bat numbers, we don’t get the #1 pitcher that we need and we just signed a SS with back problems who’s missed significant time with injuries the last few years.
Wren appears to be doing things a$$ backwards by trading for a 3 starter and signing a SS without having first obtained a No. 1 starter and traded one of the middle infielders. Unless he’s real certain that we’re trading one of the middle infielders for a No. 1, then I think he’s a failed this offseason.
By kirkinga
December 16, 2008 1:45 PM | Link to this
10Paul, no it would not make him an unknown quantity because he has an established track record.
Furthermore, when he plays, his teams usually win.
Also, over the last 3 seasons Furcal has hit .316 in Close and Late, .313 With Runners On, and .370 Runners In Scoring Position. Everyone has their favorite stats, how a player performs in the clutch is big with me and Furcal has been getting it done.
If he plays more than Chipper, I’m happy. And his speed is good for more than once a game, it’s good all game long.
And most importantly, it looks like he wanted to come home, back to the Braves. That’s pure speculation on my part, but he could’ve signed with some other team sooner, but he waited for the Braves. Lot of people here talk about loyalty and players wanting to play for the Braves, well Furcal might be a prime example.
By MizzouBravesFan
December 16, 2008 1:45 PM | Link to this
Signing Furcal just to move KJ and keep all three solves NOTHING considering we NEED a SP more than anything and we now have the flexibility to make that happen.
Like I said in the chat, if that was the plan all along, Furcal would’ve been signed a long time ago.
It would be a completely dumbfounding move from my perspective.
By Ritchie from Scotland
December 16, 2008 1:46 PM | Link to this
mixed feelings about all this. Love the fact Furcal is coming back, thats lead off sorted. (If he’ healthy, surely not another nightmare injury season….)
However, moving Kelly to left field is a major let down. Wren said himself he wouldn’t be doing it and wanted a power guy.Kelly is a 20 homer guy, Furcal not even that, so where’s the power going to come from? Also that would mean neither him or Escobar would be getting included in a trade and we still need another pitcher..
By ernesto
December 16, 2008 1:46 PM | Link to this
Lew, I think expecting 20-25 HRs out of Kotchman is a bit optimistic. He’s never had more than 14 in a year.
By mighty mike
December 16, 2008 1:50 PM | Link to this
It has been my contention all along that a lack of team speed has handicapped the Braves for the past three seasons. Is Furcal the answer to that? I guess it remains to be seen if he can come back his back problems, but if he can steal 30 and continue to hit the way he has in the past, he would be a welcome addition at the top of the lineup.
My take: If the Furcal can stay relatively healthy and the Braves can get a another solid starter, they won’t be irrelevant come September.
By the way, I love that song. I first heard Joe Cocker’s version of it way back when. I even like Tom Wopat’s cover. Beautiful piano line and powerful lyrics. Jimmy Webb has written some great songs. (One day I’ll get around to reading Robert Heinlein’s novel.)
By fastasballs
December 16, 2008 1:50 PM | Link to this
Wren has at least upgraded the offense. Signing Furcal is a good move regardless if Escobar/KJ is traded to net a pitcher or not.
The line up for once will have a lot of speed in it with Furcal, KJ & Schafer, if he is the CF, which I hope. The key is the Francoeur/Kotchman because I think we all know by now that Chipper & McCann will produce. If Francoeur & Kotchman have a good solid season the Braves should be able to put up some runs because there will be a ton of RBI chances with Furcal, Escobar, & Chipper on base constantly.
Wren & the Braves might be served well to just sit on the remaining cash. If the team can compete there should be a lot of teams looking to salary dump as the full effect of the recession hits baseball & it will. Might just be some VERY good talent able to be had for very little.
The line up could still use some more power, but you have to make due with what you have. One VERY good thing out of this is the defense up the middle just got a lot better. Probably a few games worth in the standings in things remain the same, which I kinda doubt, but maybe they will. KJ in left would have to be a defensive upgrade over Diaz, not sure about Blanco, but KJ won’t lumber around out there like Pat the Bat or Dunn.
Regardless I’m happy with the signing because the team is better overall then it was yesterday & we didn’t have to give up any prospects to do so.
By ↕↕↕↕
December 16, 2008 1:51 PM | Link to this
if it is true that they plan on kelly being in LF - then what is next ? if They are not Interested in Lowe which i do not understand why? then maybe they will be interested in sheets? they still have about 25M to spend - what about signing Brad penny & Oliver Perez ?? that should leave them nough to sign smotz.
smoltz - penny - jj - perez - vazquez
By Salty
December 16, 2008 1:51 PM | Link to this
KJ was drafted as a SS, then moved to LF due to Braves needing a LF, and THEN moved to 2B when Giles was let go.
Let’s review the history of ‘natural’ and KJ. 1. Drafted as a SS - true, but definitely not a natural there 2. Moved to LF - less natural than SS, but possibly more natural at the MLB level 3. Moved to 2B to replace Giles - no apparent solution…didn’t look all that natural in LF…but maybe SS instincts could translate into a serviceable 2B.
Now…we move to the (apparently) most natural position…again, LF. You know…KJ isn’t a ‘natural’ defensive player, but his bat has ‘natural’ potential. I think that’s what all this shifting is about…finding a spot in the order, and not killing the team in the field. And at day’s end, not being a ‘natural’ is a far cry from being brutal with a glove, or as a ‘Corky’ at the plate! LOL!
By mr baseball
December 16, 2008 1:51 PM | Link to this
Assuming the Braves do not make another trade and the starting 8 is now set, how will Chance the Manager fill out his lineup card with so many questions?
1) Who bats 2nd? Yunel? KJ? Schafer/Anderson? Cox might go for the latter pption to get his speed at the top of the order and also to utilize one of his favorite pieces of strategy: having the No. 2 hitter bunt the leadoff hitter to 2nd base so the opposition can pitch around/intentionally walk Chipper?
2) Who bats 5th behind McCann? Francouer? Kotchman? KJ? Yunel? Logic dictates Cox hits a righty in this spor so the team’s abundance of lefties are not bunched up in the middle of the order, but when has logic ever mattered to Chance the Manager.
3) If Cox goes for speed at the top of the order, who gets stuck in the 8 hole? Francouer? Yunel? KJ? Don’t think batting 8th will do much to improve Frenchy’s plate discipline. The CF will probably have to hit 8th, speed or no speed. Hope Cox realizes that.
4) Who hits cleanup when Heap is taking the day off? Hopefully, not Infante again.
10Paul: An oversight. No one needs a SS right now more than LA. However, they’ve got nobody left to trade for one. Wait a minute, they do.
Yunel to the Dodgers for Andruw. That solves the cleanup hitter question. If Wren strikes a hard bargain, maybe the Dodgers will assume $2-3 million of Andruw’s salary.
By GoBraves
December 16, 2008 1:51 PM | Link to this
D.O.B. Is there any update on Will Ohman possible returing to the Braves or signing elsewhere?
By coydog
December 16, 2008 1:52 PM | Link to this
I like KJ in left,if Raffy can stay healthy,and I know thats a big if I think it can a productive lineup.I would like to see us pursue Maholm for than one reason,not only talented,but also we have to have lefty in our rotation not named Reyes…
By Threadkiller
December 16, 2008 1:52 PM | Link to this
I’m excited!! KJ in Left, Someone in Center, and Frnchy in Right. We also signed Vasquez and Furcal!! Where can I reserve World Series tickets!!
By ernesto
December 16, 2008 1:52 PM | Link to this
brent a has a pretty good point, the Braves pretty much have to say they’re keeping everyone…otherwise they’d be in pretty weak bargaining position.
Not to say they won’t, but what they are saying today matters little to their actual plans.
By Joe
December 16, 2008 1:53 PM | Link to this
Now that we got Furcal back how about trying to get some other former braves back like Jermaine Dye, Jason Marquis, & Andruw Jones.
By OHIOBRAVESFAN
December 16, 2008 1:53 PM | Link to this
DOB
Ken Rosenthal of FoxSports has now changed his story and says that no decision has been made by Furcal, only that the Braves are the favorites.
He was to inform his agent today about the Braves or Dodgers and has eliminated Oakland from consideration.
What is this report about?
By dgd
December 16, 2008 1:54 PM | Link to this
The Braves need a lefty in the rotation (and they can’t count on JoJo or TommyG to be that lefty) to match up against the lefty-laden Phillies. The Phils will abolutely murder the Braves this year unless the Braves get a lefty in the rotation—and have a good PROVEN situational lefty like Ohman in the pen. Gonzo doesn’t count if he’s the closer…..
By BravesFanInRockies
December 16, 2008 1:55 PM | Link to this
Steve from OH,
You’re absolutely right, Josh Anderson doesn’t have much value to this team any more given Furcal’s return. I’d say the same about Blanco, but he has shown the ability to play all three OF positions and can actually contribute a little in the #8 hole when needed. Plus, he gets on base, which Anderson has never shown a tendency to do.
I consider him a headier player than Anderson, someone I’d rather have on the bench (if Schafer is starting, of course). Both are limited, but Blanco seems to have slightly better baseball skills.
By Ray
December 16, 2008 1:56 PM | Link to this
What IF the Braves move KJ to LF. And then they make a move with their prospects and or bullpen and bring in an Ankiel for CF? Outfield would be KJ, Francour and Ankiel in CF. Infield is upgraded, they get the bat they are looking for and they upgrade the overall outfield. If the rumors with Rios is true,, and it guts a good portion of our farm system to get halliday and Rios, then possibly Rios playing CF. Yes I know I am speculating.
By Nurse Ratchet
December 16, 2008 1:56 PM | Link to this
Now watch as Mr. Wren does something cement-headed by trading Escobar for whomever, then we’ll all get to watch in horror as Furcal’s back gives out repeatedly over the duration of his contract…
Does anyone here recall a certain trade involving Brett Farve and what that meant to the Falcons in recent history? Hrmm…
By Brady2705
December 16, 2008 1:56 PM | Link to this
DOB,
With this signing, I have to presume it means we absolutely won’t be getting a LF, as even if we did trade Escobar for say Peavy, we’d be out of money and couldn’t afford a LF.
What do you think about the possibility of plugging Kelly in LF, Prado at 2B (I give him more credit than I think I’ve seen you give him in your blogs), Furcal at SS, and hopefully acquiring Peavy with Escobar?
Obviously we’d be taking the heavy gamble that Frenchy bounces back into the land of productivity. We’d also be in a precarious position with no real insurance for Furcal at SS, but we do still have Omar Infante; Diory Hernandez just wrapped up AAA and is having a wonderful winter league. It wouldn’t be pretty, but I don’t think the sky would fall if those 2 had to play the SS position for a month or two if things went bad with Furcal. But overall, that looks like a very athletic and balanced lineup. No 40 HR mashers, but everyone in the lineup is at least capable of hitting .300, many with some reasonable pop to go along with it. And naturally, a rotation of
Peavy Vazquez (I give him a lot more credit than you would) Jurrjens Smoltz (4th to really limit his innings) Morton / Campillo / Hanson
would go a long way towards getting us back to the promised land of postseason play. Chances this is what the Braves end up rolling out there opening day?
By Wes
December 16, 2008 1:57 PM | Link to this
This is all fine, but (1) is McCann comfortable hitting cleanup and (2) that still leaves a lot of $ on the table - though signing Garland/Wolf and Smoltz (Smoltz, Jurjjiens (sp?), Vasquez, Garland/Wolf, Hanson/Morton/Glavine) looks a little bette.
People keep asking where is the power - if Chipper, McCann and Francoeur can hit 30 homeruns a piece, is there a need for more power? I don’t know the answer, but a bunch of guys hitting around .300 with some power isn’t such a bad thing.
By DAP
December 16, 2008 1:57 PM | Link to this
richie rios is a RF so im sure he would play left if he came here.
By Dadgum
December 16, 2008 1:58 PM | Link to this
Folks let me address all the bloggers insisting that KJ in left is a smoke screen move. Give me one available player out there that you would put in LF that was any better of an option that wouldn’t cost the Braves some stupid some of money in a rapidly deteriorating economy. One player that you would spend 10mil+ on when you could possibly use that money on a pitching option. One player with the speed and 20+ homer ability that would be better offensively and defensively than KJ. Fact is you are going to be hard-pressed to find one. Oh yeah….did I mention cheaper option?
Stop thinking KJ to LF is a bad move you will never win that argument. The bad move is keeping Escobar if a #1 starter is available in trade. All the Braves brass said early on that the top off-season priority was to acquire a #1 and #2 starter. I see no way Escobar can remain with Atlanta and accomplish this goal. Again maybe if they bring in middle rotation guys but not top pitchers. We’ll see.
Rock on…..pray the blog doesn’t crash—-again!
By JD
December 16, 2008 1:59 PM | Link to this
I only skimmed through what everyone wrote, but why wouldn’t Escobar possibly be moving to 3rd and Chipper to 1st base? What about KJ at 1st base? Prado played 1B several times last year. Obviously, one of the middle inf has to go, or move to a new position. I think Escobar is the trade bait, but it could be Kotchman/KJ, or Kotchman/Escobar, I think there is a chance we’ll have a 1B this year whose name isn’t Kotchman.
By Brady2705
December 16, 2008 1:59 PM | Link to this
This could also accelerate the emergence of Jordan Schafer on the MLB squad. My concern before Furcal was that we had no real leadoff hitter options other than Anderson or Blanco, and both obviously play CF. Schafer might be an ok option, but he’d be a rookie, and I don’t think he classically hits leadoff anyways. As I recall, he hit 5th in AA’s order an awful lot last year.
With Furcal now back and locking down the leadoff spot, this could potentially mean we get Schafer on opening day and have him hitting out of the #7 or #8 spot in the order - less pressure to fill a specific role (leadoff), and more room to simply do his thing and adjust to MLB pitching.
By TennesseePaul
December 16, 2008 2:00 PM | Link to this
Lew: It wasn’t a strong push, so to speak. But it was enough of a stance that it interested me. Along the lines of, “Alex Rios would be a good option in the outfield”. Which is different than “I don’t want him in the outfield.”
Last season wasn’t so bad for him though. He had a .798 OPS (111 OPS+) hitting .291. It was down from the previous year but… well, if I’ve got a choice between Francoeur bouncing back and Rios, I’d wager Rios is more likely to do it.
You are correct on that contract though. He is over paid for his production. Did he sign that right after the massive home run derby show he put on?
By MizzouBravesFan
December 16, 2008 2:01 PM | Link to this
Yunel to the Dodgers for Andruw. That solves the cleanup hitter question. If Wren strikes a hard bargain, maybe the Dodgers will assume $2-3 million of Andruw’s salary.
Sorry but that would be one of the dumbest trades in baseball history.
By Salty
December 16, 2008 2:01 PM | Link to this
Yunel to the Dodgers for Andruw. That solves the cleanup hitter question. If Wren strikes a hard bargain, maybe the Dodgers will assume $2-3 million of Andruw’s salary.
Hmmm…might be backwards…the Braves assume $2-3 million of AJ’s salary. Nothing in the past 2 1/2 years supports anything beyond that…much as it pains me to say that. The results is what they is..sadly.
By chris
December 16, 2008 2:01 PM | Link to this
I don’t really understand the move of johnson to left field. The outfield in 2008 was essentially power-less in the homerun totals, and while moving johnson into the outfield, this will allow pitchers to pitch around McCann and jones without a power hitter, even if escobar or johnson is hitting around .300 (not to mention the team still needs a frontline pitcher) but still, with furcal in the lineup playing beside escobar will have a nintendo-like feel to it, with two of the best defensive shortstops in baseball on the field at the same time….
By chris
December 16, 2008 2:01 PM | Link to this
I don’t really understand the move of johnson to left field. The outfield in 2008 was essentially power-less in the homerun totals, and while moving johnson into the outfield, this will allow pitchers to pitch around McCann and jones without a power hitter, even if escobar or johnson is hitting around .300 (not to mention the team still needs a frontline pitcher) but still, with furcal in the lineup playing beside escobar will have a nintendo-like feel to it, with two of the best defensive shortstops in baseball on the field at the same time….
By JOE
December 16, 2008 2:02 PM | Link to this
ESPN on the radio reported today that Smoltz is looking at re-joining the Detroit Tigers.. Any truth to that rumor?? welcome back Mr.Furcal. i thinks its a good move.. Wwe have lacked a true lead off hitter since he left..
By Chris
December 16, 2008 2:06 PM | Link to this
DOB, if johnson is indeed heading into the outfield, do you think the braves would be willing to attain a centerfielder with some pop, or will they really rest their hopes on frenchy coming back and hitting 25 homeruns, with johnson hitting 20 homeruns? especially with the declining chance of landing a frontline starter? whats your views on this? or what have you heard on this as of today?
By brian
December 16, 2008 2:06 PM | Link to this
as it stands now. 1. Furcal 2. Escobar/Johnson 3. Chipper 4. McCann 5. Kotchman 6. KJ/Escobar 7. Frenchy 8. Anderson/Schafer
SP Jurrjens, Smoltz, Vazquez, Hanson, and Glavine/Campillo/Medlin
What do you all think?
Having Escobar will be huge for many reasons. Even putting Kelly and hopefully 20-25 HR in LF would be a huge upgrade for the Braves.
By BravesFanInRockies
December 16, 2008 2:07 PM | Link to this
Another thing about KJ — he’s racked up at least 50 extra-base hits in every full season he’s played since 2004, majors and minors (and he had 48 in 2005, when he moved up from Richmond).
With Furcal giving us OBP and some pop in the leadoff spot, and Schafer likely to put up decent numbers as well, this offense could be a lot better in 2009.
By BeachDreams
December 16, 2008 2:08 PM | Link to this
Not sure if I like this move Why is it we take on so many players with high injury risk Will we never learn. The next deal is the one I’am really worried about. Looks like we will trade Esco Frank hes a sure fire All Star to build around Don’t pull the trigger But alas I fear it’s to late. Unless we get Hallady in return or another horse…………………….. How bout David Price hey a guy can dream
By JL
December 16, 2008 2:08 PM | Link to this
That’s wonderful! Now the Braves are set to return to the World Series! NOT….
By 22oz
December 16, 2008 2:09 PM | Link to this
I’m with Efrim and others on the concern about KJ being platooned. We all know its gonna happen, thats just Bobby Cox baseball. Kelly will slow his progression, and Diaz will get his regular AB’s against lefties. You can mark it down.
By Steve
December 16, 2008 2:09 PM | Link to this
DOB
So lets play Devils advocate here, assuming you keep everyone and don’t make a trade. Do you just continue to pursue the other pitching free agents and patchwork the rotation. I get the feeling the Braves just want a stop gap rotation until Hanson is ready.
By DAP
December 16, 2008 2:09 PM | Link to this
mr baseball maybe you arent really looking for answers, but…
1) escobar bats 2nd. he is a great fit there, hits the ball to the right side, has decent speed, good OBP abilities, decent power…furcal and escobar is a great tandem at the top of the order for chipper to knock in.
2) i think kelly johnson makes the most sense batting 5th behind mccann, the way the team is made up now. he hits lefties and righties about the same, has power and speed youve got to respect.
3) this answer is N/A since i dont think cox will stick out CF in the 2 hole. schafer/anderson/cblanco will bat 8th.
4) chipper will bat cleanup and KJ or escobar will get shifted to the #3 spot.
By Rod
December 16, 2008 2:09 PM | Link to this
What about the rumors that surfaced a while back with Frenchy going to KC for Grienke? That would bring us a SP, (and could u imagine a rotation of Hanson, Grienke, and Jurrjens for years to come?), and open up a spot for us to still get an OF. Maybe Dunn or Abreu? That way we won’t lose either Yunel or KJ.
By Original Jon
December 16, 2008 2:11 PM | Link to this
Furcal’s agent says there is no agreement yet, nothing has been signed. So dont get too excited yet.
By ppaddy123
December 16, 2008 2:11 PM | Link to this
Just doing the math, Furcal will be $10-12 MM and Vazquez is $11.5 MM. My understanding, the Braves were going to spend or had the ability to spend $40-45 MM this year. The Braves still have $16.5- $21.5 MM they can spend. I’m not saying they need to spend just for the sake of spending, but is there anyone out there they could realistically spend the money on and get a good return?
This Furcal signing has really given the Braves a lot of “wiggle room”.
By TURTSNAP
December 16, 2008 2:11 PM | Link to this
Move makes sense, if it shakes out that way…. Furcal and Esco up the middle, Kelly in LF. Only concern I have is that the Braves still do need a power bat out in the OF.
By darren
December 16, 2008 2:12 PM | Link to this
furcal deal not done per agent
Furcal’s agent Paul Kinzer says there’s no agreement yet. He says that if Furcal chose right now, it’d be Atlanta. However, Kinzer will call the Dodgers today to give them a final chance to sign Furcal. Furcal will probably accept an offer today, and it’ll be the Braves or Dodgers.
By FSUbravesfan10
December 16, 2008 2:12 PM | Link to this
Afternoon Ladies and Gents,
Personally I really like this move, lack of a leadoff hitter had really been rough on our team for 3 years and as long as fookie is healthy than that definitly helps there.
DOB, if the Braves keep both KJ and Escobar, how do you see the lineup shaking out? Do you see KJ and Escobar rotating in and out of the 2 hole, or do the Braves secretly hope that either Escobar or KJ break out and hit somewhere in the 20 homerun 85 RBI range in the 5-7 slot in the lineup. Also, I like the prospect of having Jordan Schaffer (misspelled?) or Blanco at the bottom of the order which would give us speed as well as take a ton of pressure off of either of those guys.
I feel like with this lineup we have committed to playing more small ball, other than Francouer’s small OBP, we really don’t have a rally killer unless McCann hits a ball on the ground with runners on base (sorry McFann). Anyways What do yall think?
By Efrim
December 16, 2008 2:12 PM | Link to this
Rosenthal updates that there is no deal yet, but that the Braves are favorites:
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8947764/Sources:-No-Furcal-deal-yet,-Braves-are-‘favorites’
By N8
December 16, 2008 2:13 PM | Link to this
mr. baseball
“Yunel to the Dodgers for Andruw. That solves the cleanup hitter question. If Wren strikes a hard bargain, maybe the Dodgers will assume $2-3 million of Andruw’s salary.”
Being the self proclaimed king of sarcasm (OK, I’ve never referred to myself as the “king”, but…), I hope I’m recognizing sarcasm at it’s finest with this statement.
If not?
Yikes.
By TrueBlueBravesFan
December 16, 2008 2:13 PM | Link to this
DOB
What is the status of Norton….do any of these moves mean that theres not enough room on the bench for him?
If so I would hate that because he was assume on the bench…JMO
By P. Rose
December 16, 2008 2:14 PM | Link to this
Like A Rolling Stone
for John Schuerholz
Once upon a time you dressed so fine
Got ‘em all to sign in your prime
Didn’t you?
Then the Dodgers had the gall to call Furcal
You thought they were all kidding you
You used to laugh about
How you always had a better scout
Now you don’t talk so loud
Now you don’t seem so proud
To have someone else scrounging for your next deal
How does it feel, how does it feel?
To be all alone
No one on the phone
Like a complete unknown
Like a rolling stone
Well Fooky bought a brand new Hummer
What a bummer
Cause you know he’ll only get juiced in it
Nobody ever taught him not to be drunk on the street
And now you’re gonna have to get used to it
You said you’d never compromise
With a has-been champ, but now you realize
He’s not getting any RBIs
As you stare into the vacuum of his eyes
And say did we have to make this deal?
How does it feel, how does it feel?
To be knocked off your throne
Another season blown
Wearing too much cologne
Like a rolling stone
By Vol
December 16, 2008 2:14 PM | Link to this
Excited about Furky!!! Does Frenchy and prospects for Greinke and Guillen make more sense now? It seems interesting for the Braves - maybe not KC though. All of a sudden we might have the team we wanted after all and then some.
By Herschel Talker
December 16, 2008 2:15 PM | Link to this
**Mr. Baseball at 1:51PM: “Yunel to the Dodgers for Andruw. That solves the cleanup hitter question. If Wren strikes a hard bargain, maybe the Dodgers will assume $2-3 million of Andruw’s salary.”
HAHAHAHAHA. HAHAHAHAHA. Holy cow, my stomach is hurting. HAHAHAHAHA.
You, my friend, are an idiot, and a disgrace to the title “Mr. Baseball.” You are a fool.**
By NCmike
December 16, 2008 2:16 PM | Link to this
This is not a good move for the Braves; it’s a GREAT move!!! We now have a solid lineup of patient hitters who will work the count and put the ball in play (well maybe except for Jeff…). I, for one, don’t think the Braves need the power hitting slugger. Look at the Yankee “dynasty” of the 90’s… Tell me who was there “power” guy? Bernie? O’Neill? Jeter? Boggs? Tino? They just had a bunch of solid 15-25 HR guys. Tell me a player on the Braves that is not capable of 15-25 HRs and .280 - .300 BA. CF might be a question, but other than that, it’s pretty solid.
Now if Wren really wants to gamble, he’s got plenty of cash left to spend. How about signing Sheets, Smotlz and RJ? Major risk injuries, but even if two of the three stay healthy at any given time, that would be one heck of a rotation. Imagine a 1-5 that looks like Smoltz, Sheets, JJ, Vaz and RJ. Talk about some power arms. Of course it’d be a BIG gamble, but if you want to go for it… I’d give that squad a chance against anyone in the NL. Pretty much a pipedream, but still fun to play “what if”…
By Dadgum
December 16, 2008 2:17 PM | Link to this
Folks the Atlanta Braves do not want Andruw Jones back in any way shape or form. His defense and speed have slipped. We have far better CF options than Andruw and we are all real tired of seeing him look silly on breaking balls over and over and over again season after season. His HR “potential” in no way overcomes his .225 avg. The Braves have moved on and you should too.
Rock on….did I mention he drags Boras with him?
By ↕↕↕↕
December 16, 2008 2:19 PM | Link to this
according to his agent the deal is not done yet - and they will give the dodgers a chance to make a better offer??
By KC
December 16, 2008 2:19 PM | Link to this
Tomahawkin: I don’t think Hanson will be “pressed” into taking a place in the opening day rotation… but he may earn a slot.
If Hanson impresses this spring, there’s a great chance he’ll be in the rotation on opening day. If he doesn’t impress, he’ll start at Gwinnett.
By City Dude
December 16, 2008 2:19 PM | Link to this
n which case this song title is a steal, unless credited to the SF author. **mountain Jim88
what you never noticed out thar in them mountains that there are any number of books with the same titles that don’t reference each other? Even if that is where it came from, why would a song reference it? There is no copyright on titles.
By fastasballs
December 16, 2008 2:19 PM | Link to this
Failure this, failure that. Some of you people need to to take the shrink wrap off reality & try to live in it for a change instead of the fantasy world you reside in.
Signing Furcal just made this team better, maybe a lot better in all aspects of the game.
Trading for Vazquez, although not a sexy move, does make the rotation better. He eats innings, which will save the pen from a little chronic overuse. Need another starter? You bet.
Towers killed the Peavy deal, not Wren. Don’t believe me? Go check with the Cubs GM.
Wren failed at signing an overpriced AJ Burnett? Revist this in a year or two & the same people will be claiming how lucky the Braves were not to sign him.
News flash the off season isn’t over, not nearly & on occaison patience is a virtue. The Braves still have all their prospects besides Flowers & quite a few youngsters on the big club that could be moved. Add that to a fairly good sized piggy bank & Braves are not in that bad a shape at the moment.
Some of you people think Wren can just wave him magic tomahawk & have a great starting rotation. You never know we might just have one if JJ,Hanson, Jo Jo, Morton, Medlin & others excel. It wasn’t that long ago that Braves fans were complaining about a couple of guys by the names of Smoltz & Glavine. The GM then, Cox didn’t deal them off for the hottest free agent in 1988 or 1989 did he?
By wow
December 16, 2008 2:20 PM | Link to this
we need a left fielder who can bat in the 3 or 6 spot… kotchman has to hit this season, frenchy has to have a great comeback season, and we need an ace.
thats the only way i can see the braves competing in the NL East
By Shane
December 16, 2008 2:21 PM | Link to this
This is a terrible move. Why do we keep trading budding stars away for old men with bad backs? Furcals best daysare behind him. Escobar is about to become a star. SB’s are overated anyway.
By AJK
December 16, 2008 2:21 PM | Link to this
DOB: Has there been any mention that the Braves may be interested in Brad Penny? Who would we have to give Pittsburgh to get Paul Maholm?
Thanks!
By cmac1919
December 16, 2008 2:21 PM | Link to this
Getting Furcal and moving KJ to the outfielding still accomplishes absolutely nothing! We still don’t have a power hitting outfielder or a front-line starter.(things we actually needed far far far more than another infielder)
I’m still wondering what’s going on in Frank Wren’s head. It’s like he’s just making moves just so people won’t accuse him of doing nothing.
I’m excited to get Furcal back, but hearing that Kelly Johnson is going to be the “answer” to our outfield problem is a huge letdown. Why not just put him or Escobar in a package deal to try and get that front-line starter we desperately need?
By DannyFish
December 16, 2008 2:22 PM | Link to this
brent a.
I’m referring to the fact that many of the people on here assume that if we don’t pick up a big power bat FA in the outfield that our HR numbers will still be low next year. I was simply stating that you have to take into account that although KJ himself won’t put up 40 HR in a season it isn’t unreasonable that JF and KJ can combine to have decent power numbers.
By nativebird
December 16, 2008 2:23 PM | Link to this
as a lifetime Braves fan that lived through the darkest and brightest days of the franchise, I can honestly say this….What a joke, what a smokescreen. Wren is a joke. the Braves “good years” are SO OVER as an organization; how many EX-BRAVES can the BRAVES sign so they can continue to SWEEP the basement floor while looking like they DOING SOMETHING…ANYTHING.
how desperate. it’s sad. fact is, the owners of this franchise have made a once proud dynamic organziation into the modern day SMALL MARKET TEAM with no money and no prospect of EVER winning again…at least until there is some kind of salary cap installed in MLB.
it is Over MY FRIENDS.
By Report
December 16, 2008 2:24 PM | Link to this
Furcal spurns A’s, then Braves, to sign with Dodgers
By Brady2705
December 16, 2008 2:25 PM | Link to this
Does anyone think there’s even a snowball’s chance in hell that we keep Escobar, Furcal is actually the one to go to LF and Johnson stays at 2B? It hasn’t been pretty, but Johnson’s probably better defensively at 2B than he is in LF at this point. The guy just can’t read flyballs; look back at the dropped pop up down the RF line that cost us a game this year.
Anyways, Furcal’s cannon arm would seem to be wasted at 2B. In LF, his speed and cannon arm would be an incredible asset. I know he’s an infielder and always has been, but he could probably make the transition easily, and would be an exceptional threat for us out there. I like that idea better than wasting Furcal’s talents at 2B and putting Kelly in a position he’s probably just not MLB caliber at.
By alex
December 16, 2008 2:25 PM | Link to this
I guess I like this move. Not really sure though. I love Furky at lead-off, I just don’t like his recent injuries. Also, honestly, not loving filling our OF hole with KJ. He’s just so damned inconsistent.
That said, if this helps us land Peavy. Well then, count me as loving it.
By Too Hot For Teacher
December 16, 2008 2:26 PM | Link to this
Mr Baseball
I was following you until you suggested Escobar for Andruw. wow. our clubhouse kitchen ain’t big enough for mccann and andruw.
By Tony
December 16, 2008 2:26 PM | Link to this
This is one reason why i hate Fox . One minute they agreed on the phone and the next he is sleeping on it. Which one is it? I swear they always change there articles like 10 times before the truth comes out from a different site. All the other sites are going on what FoxSports.com reported.
By JP
December 16, 2008 2:26 PM | Link to this
Dave, I have to agree with you about Kelly being able to focus more on hitting if he goes to left field. But I really feel like this is just the beginning of opening up options for Wren to continue his search for a power hitting outfielder and another starting pitcher. Hopefully that will be an #1 or #2 type. And if all else fails he still has a pretty good team to field now. Biggest opportunities being starting pitching. Everything we do from here is just speculation, but I like the potential possibilities. Have always been a big Furcal fan and can appreciate what he brings to the table defensively and fromt the 1 spot. I look forward to seeing what’s coming up.
By pgh355
December 16, 2008 2:27 PM | Link to this
DOB…With your info about KJ moving to LF, do you still think a trade for a top pitcher is still in the works?
By Robert
December 16, 2008 2:28 PM | Link to this
Why not now go after Lowe if its going to be Burnett like money? At least Lowe is dependable and a big money ball pitcher?
By nolie
December 16, 2008 2:28 PM | Link to this
Yunnel, Gorkys, Charlie, Brandon, and another does not seem like enough for Hallady and Rios.
I would be wary of trading for Greinke. He is two years away from free agency and not a proven winner, although his stuff is unquestioned. Dan
good thinking on both points
By Russell
December 16, 2008 2:28 PM | Link to this
Everyone seems to think that the Furcal deal is not the deal that is needed in the outfield, but ponder this…..
Furcal brings 15 homers to the lineup, but he adds how many more homers to the 2,3,4 spots in the order where the pitcher is worried about him on base. How many runs does he add by stealing second after a single or walk…or scoring when others in the last 3 years would not. While not a power bat, his presence should increase the output from Chipper, B-Mac, Frenchy, Escobar, and Johnson.
That is a significant add in power numbers as the guys lower in the order are not having to try and get that sac fly to move someone from second to third or otherwise move people around. Should add a lot of spark and is a great deal if he stays healthy
By Jersey Gil
December 16, 2008 2:29 PM | Link to this
It Not a Bad Idea, Bring Andruw Home..Did anyone saw him yesterday debut in Winter ball in the Dominican, he is 20-25 pound lighter. ESPN Deportes has the game on TV. I don’t said trade for Yunel, but he can be trade for Diory Hernandez, that now playing SS in the Dominican and hitting real good.Ah… and the Dodger eating part of Andruw Salary.
By Shane
December 16, 2008 2:30 PM | Link to this
Do you know how many games Furcal played last year? Thats right all of 36.
By Najeh Davenpoop
December 16, 2008 2:30 PM | Link to this
I’m a big fan of Furcal and I’m really excited to see him come back to the ATL. Escobar is talented, but I’d be cool with including him in a trade for Peavy at this point.
By Richie
December 16, 2008 2:32 PM | Link to this
DAP
Rios played 62 games in CF while Vernon Wells was out last year. He had 156 PO’s to 3 Error’s out there, and he has never played LF. I really think he’d play CF and then it is easier having Blanco/Diaz/Anderson(If KJ is traded) in LF. I’d prefer Anderson, that would be one speedy outfield range wise with the plus arms being Frenchy and Rios. Anderson’s arm is decent but it would have more value in LF than CF.
By pills91
December 16, 2008 2:33 PM | Link to this
Could be that Braves are thinking Smoltz can comeback, start, and be productive. This could be a bridge year to next year anyway.
Rotation:
Smoltz, JJ, Vasquez, Campillo, other young pitcher
Next year:
Huddy, JJ, Hanson, Vasquez, Campillo
The first rotation looks ok, as long as Smoltz can go. Next year’s rotation looks exceptional.
Will allow the Braves to focus on a power hitting 1B and a replacement for Chipper.
By GSU-Lee
December 16, 2008 2:34 PM | Link to this
DOB, this is official right? I only ask because foxsports and espn say it is not yet…but i would take your word over theirs
By chopper2chipper
December 16, 2008 2:34 PM | Link to this
We still don’t have Furcal yet. Meh.
By JayDub
December 16, 2008 2:34 PM | Link to this
DOB …
What are the chances that the plan to move Johnson to left field is just a ruse? I mean, if they admit they’ve got one too many middle infielders, then the Braves aren’t making trades from a position of power. So instead, they’ll say “we intend to play Johnson in Left” and that way they don’t seem desperate.
By Dadgum
December 16, 2008 2:35 PM | Link to this
CMAC 1919….exactly who are you going to get to play LF that is better than KJ. Cheaper than KJ that will run faster play better defense is well liked. Who? Exactly when is a 20+ homer potential guy not a “power bat”. A triple hitter with his speed. The answer is you aren’t going to find one. Not Abreu, not Ankiel, not Dunn, not Ludwick, not Bradley.
The LF option is now set regardless of whether we get Furcal. The bRaves and almost everyone here is settling in on the realitythat our best LF option has been on the team a long time. In fact it is a move that possibly should have been made last year.
Rock on…more news is sure to follow
By OHIOBRAVESFAN
December 16, 2008 2:35 PM | Link to this
DOB
I was the first to let this site know that FoxSports was changing their story and that Furcal had not agreed with the Braves.
I’m with everyone else…nervous now. EXCEPT FOR ONE THING… You reported that you had confirmed the deal.
Would you mind elaborating a bit. Who confirmed it? Since you’ve confirmed it, can we just ignore Rosenthal’s changing story?
Thanks for your great work.
By Mr J
December 16, 2008 2:37 PM | Link to this
DAP, I like your #4 scenario. I’d bat Schafer/Blanco 2nd, to concentrate the speed at the top of the order. KJ bats 3rd, with orders to just hit the damn ball. Chipper bats 4th, so KJ actually gets a ball to hit.
After that, its flexible. I think I’d want 5) Escobar, 6) McCann, 7)Francoeur, 8) Kotchman, just because it keeps the lefty/righty thing in balance.
I know Chipper has expressed preference for batting 3rd, I guess because it means more ABs over the course of the year. But this scenario might make up for that by allowing more RBI opportunities. Not like we were asking him to change positions…
By Jersey Gil
December 16, 2008 2:38 PM | Link to this
Tony Follow what DOB confirm with his 11:57 confirmation.
By nolie
December 16, 2008 2:42 PM | Link to this
Yes, now we flip Furcal for Crawford;) Luther
You can’t flip FA signees
By Joel
December 16, 2008 2:44 PM | Link to this
JayDub Maybe the Braves really do intend to use KJ in LF. I think a lot of people in the organization really like him, and although he may never hit 40 hrs, he could still be a heck of a run producer in the middle of the lineup (maybe after McCann).
By DCbrave
December 16, 2008 2:45 PM | Link to this
P. Rose: Enjoyed yours at 11:10 AM. I like Furcal though. But the signing makes sense only if Escobar or KJ is to be traded for an ace-caliber pitcher because Furcal is good only if we need a starting ss or 2b. Keeping KJ and moving him to LF does not excite me, and does not make much sense if we need more power in the outfield.
By Jersey Gil
December 16, 2008 2:45 PM | Link to this
It this trade stand and with Anderson,Schafer in CF…you going to see a different Atlanta Braves team, not looking for long Ball instead more stolen bases and hitrun style.The New ROADRUNNER BRAVOS.
By Hoosier Aaron
December 16, 2008 2:46 PM | Link to this
I do not have a source nor have I talked to anyone with any knowledge of the situation.
However, logic tells me that with all of our needs - Frank Wren has other plans.
I’m just saying - I love the fact that we now have a true leadoff hitter. But, it only makes sense to me if we use this as a spring-board to fill holes.
If I were a betting person (I’m not) but if I were - I’m betting there is another trade within 48 hours of Raffy coming home.
By raymond
December 16, 2008 2:47 PM | Link to this
Johnson in left is a maistake and was a mistake when he played left field before. He was not very good out there and is not enough of a hitter to fill our needs for left field.I hope that Toronto rumor is true, Halladay is a true #1.
By BravesFanInRockies
December 16, 2008 2:49 PM | Link to this
Shane (2:21)
This is a free agent signing, not a trade.
By BravesFanInRockies
December 16, 2008 2:52 PM | Link to this
Also, Shane, the reason Furcal played 36 games last year was due to his bad back, which required surgery.
The only reason he was available for 3 years/$10 million per year is uncertainty about the back. Had he been healthy, the Dodgers would have never let him go — or he would have commanded a lot more money on the open market.
The fact that Billy Beane aggressively went after Fookie twice makes me think he’ll be worth every penny.
By mr baseball
December 16, 2008 2:52 PM | Link to this
Herschel Talker:
Open up a dictionary (assuming you have one) and look up the definition of sarcasm. Then turn back towards the front and check out the definition of doofus. I think your picture is next to it.
N8:
No need for Yikes. I am cut to the quick that you (of all people) did not 100 percent ascertain my intent. Not surprised others did not.
DAP:
Good answer. Unfortunately, you’re not the guy who will be filling out the lineup card. Hope he does better than some of the Minnesota Senate voters who could not mark their ballots in a remotely intelligible fashion. Might cost us the chance to have a real comedian in Washington.
My money is still on Escobar being dealt unless Furcal is totally on board with the move to second. Discount anything Wren says about the Braves’ plans to keep Yunel and KJ. What’s he going to say?
“Signing Furcal frees us up to get rid of either Escobar or Johnson. Any team interested in either player should give me a call. Trade lines are open.”
Call 404-464-3468 (404-IMIDIOT).
By bakerman
December 16, 2008 2:53 PM | Link to this
Anything that moves Kelly from second base is a good move for the Braves.
By Heath
December 16, 2008 2:54 PM | Link to this
I know the Braves typically don’t like dealing with Boras guys…but Lowe makes perfect sense here. I agree with everyone that his “stuff” is not as good as Burnett’s, but I bet in three years, his body of work will be better…he is much more consistent and far more durable. He really does make perfect sense for this rotation:
2008(In no particular order):
JJ, Lowe, Vasquez, Hanson, and Smoltz (with Campillo holding down the fort until Smoltz gets back)
2009:
Hudson,JJ,Hanson,Lowe,Vasquez
By Original Jon
December 16, 2008 2:57 PM | Link to this
raymond please explain your thinking on how Johnson was not very good out there, really, i would love to hear it.
By Report
December 16, 2008 2:58 PM | Link to this
the trade isn’t finalized
By mbatl
December 16, 2008 2:58 PM | Link to this
Off topic for today, but….
Can anyone tell me what a “mutual option” means? Sounds to me like “if both sides agree, that’s the salary.”
I ask because we all assume Hudson back in 2010, but I’m wondering if we might be in a F/A bidding war for him. If he’s got to agree to 1 year, $12 mil, I wouldn’t count on it.
By DAP
December 16, 2008 2:59 PM | Link to this
herschel talker You, my friend, are an idiot, and a disgrace to the title “Mr. Baseball.” You are a fool.
no, everyone taking that statement by mr baseball seriously is a fool. c’mon guys, the entire post was in a tone of sarcasm. in that context the proposed trade for andruw was clearly sarcastic. did you ever take an english course?
By Dixie Dawg
December 16, 2008 3:01 PM | Link to this
Hmmm….interesting….Glad Furcal’s back…hope we keep Escobar..Johnson in his natural position of leftfield sounds good too..we can get another frontline pitcher..but it doesn’t have to be from San Diego.
By Bryan
December 16, 2008 3:01 PM | Link to this
my last name is lowe and I’ll gladly sign to pitch for the Braves :)
By raymond
December 16, 2008 3:01 PM | Link to this
If we keep Johnson and put him in left field, it tells me management does not want to spend all of the 40 million they have available and we are going to see another budget version of the Branes
By Jersey Gil
December 16, 2008 3:01 PM | Link to this
Guys…Guys….The Trade is not Official until Furcal Take a Fisical…..I think he is in the Dominican.
By BamaBrave
December 16, 2008 3:02 PM | Link to this
THIS JUST IN…
Muntadar al-Zaidi, the Iraqi shoe-throwing journalist, has been released on $2 million bail and has been signed by the Yankees for $48 million over four years. Brian Cashman, Yankee GM, said Bronx management was “impressed” by al-Zaidi’s ability to throw strikes “under duress, and from the stretch, no less.” “We can’t wait to see what he’ll do with a baseball,” Cashman added.
By nature boy
December 16, 2008 3:02 PM | Link to this
the one difference between Chipper and KJ is that LF is KJ’s natural position…so maybe that potential move could spark his numbers James
huh? They both started as shortstops. Kelly played a bit of outfield in the minors, but it is in no way his natural position
By Ron Roberts
December 16, 2008 3:04 PM | Link to this
Signing Furcal gives the Braves an upgrade in options, naysayers. Before signing Furcal our LF options were platooning Matt Diaz with whom?
Exactly.
The od thing about a potential KJ/Matty D. platoon is that they both hit better off lefties, despite KJ batting from the left. So it doesn’t really set up an optimal platoon situation. I have to wonder if this means KJ or Matt’s playing somewhere else (positionally or teamwise) this season. Neither provide the range for a spot in CF; Francoeur would be better-suited if we’re to stay in-house to field that spot, if either Matt or KJ were amicable to a RF move. Matt’s played 13 games in RF over the course of his career, so it’s not a totally foreign concept to him, I guess.
I still believe, even if the Braves won’t say it, that there’s another move or two to follow after this deal gets cemented.
By Lee in S GA
December 16, 2008 3:06 PM | Link to this
Seems to me Johnson has been moved around and done the platoon thing enough in his short career. Although I will say it is an adventure every time a grounder or pop-up is hit to him, I would either trade him or leave him at 2nd. Johnson’s trade value will not be as great as Escobar’s though and as much of a fan favorite of Escobar as I am, I can see him waving so-long. However as temperamental as Escobar is, a middle finger may stand alone in the wave good-bye. I am sure he is already a little upset about the Furcal rumors and sees his future with the Braves organization in jeopardy if Furcal comes to the Braves……..which appears to be up-in-air at present time.
Here’s hoping to trading Escobar for a quality starter and eventually this team obtaining a power hitting outfielder. I am ready for this team to go all the way and take a GIANT step to contend again instead of just stitching a few pieces together as they did last season.
Please no mention of Anderson or Blanco in the outfield. Their names should only be mentioned as AAA players for the fans in Gwinnett county to watch this upcoming season providing they are still with the Braves organization. I know I will be pulling for Diaz, Schafer or Brandon Jones (any 2 out of the 3) to beat either of these guys for any outfield position on the team.
Now for this Furcal “Fookie” nickname, I am going to have to go a little “Cedric the Entertainer” here and say ” I’m a grown a$$ man ……. I’m not
By elainer7
December 16, 2008 3:07 PM | Link to this
The Braves always seem to trade all of their young talent for older players that have logged half of their time on the disabled list. Im sure the coming season wont bring us anything different.
By Tony
December 16, 2008 3:07 PM | Link to this
Braves think Furcal deal done, but agent denies it
The Braves are on the verge of signing Rafael Furcal, SI.com has confirmed. It is believed to be a three-year deal. Furcal is thought to have a home in Atlanta, and enjoyed his first stint there from 2000-2005, so he took less guaranteed money to return there.
In an interesting twist, Furcal’s agent, Paul Kinzer, denied to the Los Angeles Times that there’s a done deal, though Braves people indicate they believe it is. Kinzer, however, told the paper he’s giving the Dodgers one last chance to respond the Braves deal, which is believed to be for $30 million over three years, plus an option year.
The Dodgers aren’t thought likely to give Furcal three years, but if they do, it might be hard to explain continuing talks with the Dodgers since Atlanta people think they have Furcal all but locked up. - SI.com
By DAP
December 16, 2008 3:07 PM | Link to this
richie youre right about rios. he played over 500 innings in CF last year. i dont think there is any chance the braves trade for him, but youre right.
By Luther
December 16, 2008 3:08 PM | Link to this
Nolie- I meant for the ;) sign to mean I’m joking, as well as the long wished for Crawford reference.
No worries, I realize there is such a far reaching wave of suggestions that it is becoming difficult to distinguish between the sarcastic suggestions and the just plain bad ones.
By Firehombre
December 16, 2008 3:08 PM | Link to this
I like the addition of Furcal and I like Johnson in left field. Still, no matter how good our offense gets, it’s not gonna matter one iota if we don’t do more on the pitching front. Both Mets and Phillies have made it a point to get stronger during the winter with their pitching. We need at least 1 stud at the top of the rotation, backed up by Jurjjens and Vasques, and maybe Hanson piching fourth. We also need for Smoltz to have it in the tank for one last ride to the HOF, whether it be closing or starting. You can’t tell me that Peavy can’t be had unless we give up Hanson. Give them 2 lower level pitchers with promise along with Escobar, Hernandez, and maybe Reyes. The Braves would be giving up a ton, but it may be necessary in order to compete in the NL east next season.
By Brian
December 16, 2008 3:08 PM | Link to this
Rosenthal is either scatter brained, or he likes to think he’s breaking a story for attention, when he knows it’s not official! Maybe he’s trying to exagerate in case it turns out right..whatever!
I’d like to think the Braves are possibly moving KJ to LF because they have an ace type they think they can get, and knowing strong pitching can make up for lack off power in the line-up. Or, they think when the summer rolls around, there will be a better hitter available..who knows. I’m glad Furcal’s back-hopefully!
DOB- Hey bud, remember me? You were probably hoping I’d never show up again?Come on, lets talk about this awesome season coming up!
By TennesseePaul
December 16, 2008 3:09 PM | Link to this
The deal isn’t done?!? Well what’s all this double play combo talk then?
By Bubdylan
December 16, 2008 3:09 PM | Link to this
P Rose, you’re on fire, man. Laughed and laughed… “he’s not getting any… RBI’s…”
By Jorge Steinbrenner
December 16, 2008 3:09 PM | Link to this
Actually, the deal between Rafael Furcal and the Atlanta Braves is not going to happen.
The Yankees would like to announce that we have signed Furcal to a 5 year, $75 million contract.
Furcal will play 2B, Derek Jeter will play 1B, and A-Rod will move to SS. We are now negotiating with the Braves to trade Johnny Damon for Chipper Jones, who will play 3B.
Take that, Braves fans!
By DAP
December 16, 2008 3:10 PM | Link to this
mbatl we all assume Hudson back in 2010, but I’m wondering if we might be in a F/A bidding war for him. If he’s got to agree to 1 year, $12 mil, I wouldn’t count on it.
i bet he will, since he will be coming off of tommy john surgury and will have a chance to sign a longer contract worth more money if he shows hes still got it in 2010.
By Nate
December 16, 2008 3:10 PM | Link to this
Hudson won’t back until very late next year if at all. He really won’t have much time to prove to other teams that he’s health and ready to pitch 200 innings in 2010.
He could turn down the Braves and hit the open market, but coming of surgery could he really expect a big multi-year deal?
By International Talker
December 16, 2008 3:11 PM | Link to this
Hey, DOB and Guys
According to impactodeportivo.com.do(a dominican baseball website), Furcal told them this noon that HE IS going to travel to ATL tomorrow to take the Physical. the article also says he’s in Santo Domingo right now and that he’s going to make his Winter League Debut on Saturday with Agulias.
By Renegator
December 16, 2008 3:11 PM | Link to this
Here’s a question…
Who bats cleanup during the 20% of the season that McCann is out of the line up? Who bats 3rd for the 20% - 25% of the season that Chipper misses with injury.
This team needs a power bat. CF is the place for that bat. Ankiel is the right guy - the Braves just need to make sure the price is right.
By ppaddy123
December 16, 2008 3:11 PM | Link to this
By raymond December 16, 2008 2:47 PM Johnson in left is a maistake and was a mistake when he played left field before. He was not very good out there and is not enough of a hitter to fill our needs for left field.
OK……….just looking at OPS……KJ would rank 13th among all starting MLB LF position players. And just wondering……..who is the best defensive LF in MLB? It’s not exactly a position predicated on defense. Kelly Johnson was a SS. SS typically are the best athletes on the team. He’ll be fine in LF.
By mbatl
December 16, 2008 3:12 PM | Link to this
Ron Roberts, my guess is that IF KJ is moved to LF, Diaz will be either traded or (more likely) non-tendered. He made $1.225 mil last year, and will probably be in line for $2 mil plus in ‘09. I doubt the Braves would pay him that if they have a regular in LF, whether it’s KJ or someone else.
By BravesFanInRockies
December 16, 2008 3:12 PM | Link to this
DAP,
If Schafer wins the CF job, he won’t be hitting 8th every day. He has enough power/speed/on-base skills to be an excellent compliment to Furcal esp. He’s wasted in the 8-hole vs. RHP. Now if he’s not the guy, then I could see Blanco or Anderson hitting 8th.
My lineup vs. RHP:
1) Furcal 2) Schafer 3) Chipper 4) Heap 5) Yunel 6) Kelly 7) Kotchman 8) Frenchy 9) SP
Vs. Lefties —
1) Furcal 2) Yunel 3) Chipper 4) Heap/Diaz (?) 5) KJ/Kotchman (if KJ sits; he hits lefties well) 6) Kotchman/Ross (if Heap sits) 7) Frenchy 8) Schafer/Infante 9) SP
If Matty is the reserve LF, then against some lefties I’d consider hitting him cleanup. Heck, if he can play RF I’d hit him there and let Frenchy sit vs. lefties, because Frenchy hit lefties worse than righties in 2008.
By DCbrave
December 16, 2008 3:14 PM | Link to this
Never a fan of Mr. Baseball, but for all fairness, the sarcasm is clearly there in his post. Your not seeing it clearly and immediately concerns me and maybe your doctor as well.
By Yars
December 16, 2008 3:14 PM | Link to this
If Bobby were to stick KJ either in the #2 or #5 spot in the lineup & keep him there, he will put up solid numbers for us in ‘09. I predict .290/20/85 type numbers. Whether he’s still our 2B or new LF, we need to keep KJ. Young, pretty cheap, & is going to be a great player for years to come. We keep our core of KJ, Yunel, Frenchy, Schafer, McCann, & hopefully Chipper plays 3-4 more years. We’re gonna be ok. now playing pork & beans by weezer.
By Tony
December 16, 2008 3:14 PM | Link to this
Atlanta Braves.com has changed there title to “Braves expected to ink former shortstop Furcal” now.. Its not a done deal yet people!
By N8
December 16, 2008 3:16 PM | Link to this
mr. baseball
Please accept my deepest apology. In the future, I will not doubt your sarcastic prowess. LOL!
You’re correct though, once I saw everybody else flying off the handle at your post, I realized that it got the “rise” you were looking for, which made it obvious.
Well played.
By BravesFanInRockies
December 16, 2008 3:18 PM | Link to this
Ron Roberts,
Whether the Braves make another move or not, you make a great point. Diaz crushes lefties, and KJ’s production vs. lefties doesn’t drop off much, so why wouldn’t you consider Diaz as an unconventional platoon partner for Francoeur?
Until Heyward and Freeman are ready for the majors, Bobby may have to show a little creativity with the offense. Much as the thought may make some of us cringe.
By Ryan
December 16, 2008 3:19 PM | Link to this
there was no trade gil, he’s a free agent
By crap-wheelie
December 16, 2008 3:19 PM | Link to this
We keep hearing how great Furcal’s arm is. Maybe he’s going to pitch.
In all seriousness, I love this move.
We need a leadoff man. Now Cox should fine him every time he hits a home run. The only time Furcal stunk up Turner Field was after he hit a long ball. After that, he’d swing for the fences and fly out a lot. Yes, he can hit it hard and long. But truthfully, he’s much more valuable to the team as a slap hitter.
Now, if we can trade Johnson or Escobar in a package for a power pitcher, I’ll be very happy. Then, we’ll at least be competitive with the Mets and Phils.
By jonatuga
December 16, 2008 3:20 PM | Link to this
DOB: Is there anything you;ve heard that would at all substantiate the Braves are in talks regarding Halliday or is this just a wild rumor?
By TDub
December 16, 2008 3:21 PM | Link to this
BamaBrave, I snorted out loud in my office when I read that…
By cityofdecatur
December 16, 2008 3:22 PM | Link to this
Toronto Star op-ed says it’s time to Trade Hallady……………..Toronto Sun reports Jays looking for shortstop……….Hmmmmm
By Greg in TN
December 16, 2008 3:22 PM | Link to this
Afternoon folks…
It sounds as if the imminent signing of Rafael Furcal to a three-year contract has stoked speculation on the ‘ol Braves/MIB blog. I’ve always been rather lukewarm to Furcal during his first tour of duty in Georgia’s capitol. Great speed, outstanding arm. I’ve never been enamored with the stretches where he swings for the fences, and he has had them over his career.
I’m fine with the signing, but is this a precursor to something else? Does Frank Wren have something else up his sleeve? It’s possible that a few closed doors reopen now, however I am intrigued with the possibility of having Escobar at short, Furcal at second, and KJ manning LF.
I think it’s very possible that the Braves have every intention of going to Dark Star with the defensive alignment as it’s constituted now, and if they get a lead on a better option for left in ST, then pull the trigger. I think it’s also quite possible that FW is still working on getting a first tier pitcher and the Furcal signing means eventually that either Escobar or KJ goes.
Not too concerned about Smoltz going elsewhere, especially if he’s able to start and pitch effectively. I think the Braves are wanting to wait and make sure he’s up for starting before tendering an offer and the Bearded Icon’s agents are doing their job in seeing what else is out there.
By Brian
December 16, 2008 3:22 PM | Link to this
I wonder if a deal is in place with Francoeur/ Escobar/ Morton for Greinke/Guillen? Maybe, but I wouldn’t want Francoeur in that kind of deal. He should at least be a .250-.260 hitter with 20 HR and 80-100 RBI. Bad mistake if Jeff is traded, he’s just too young to give up on!
Oh yeah, Escobar won’t be traded, right? I wouldn’t believe anything writen right now…I mean, who saw them signing Furcal?
By BravesFanInRockies
December 16, 2008 3:23 PM | Link to this
mbatl,
I think it’s too late to non-tender Diaz. Besides, Bowman quoted Wren Friday saying Diaz was in the team’s 2009 plans, either as a platoon player or a bat off the bench. This was before today’s activities, of couse.
I can’t see him getting that big a raise since he’s coming off an injury that caused him to miss a ton of time. He may get the same offer, or maybe slightly more. But not a 60 percent raise.
By Nate
December 16, 2008 3:23 PM | Link to this
Signing Furcal may have created internal options, but it has yet to solve a problem. The problems are that the Braves need a cleanup hitter and a #1 starter. Furcal can’t fill either of those spots.
Instead of signing Furcal to create “options,” why not just sign an outfielder. Griffey could be signed for less than 10 million a year and he would be a great platoon with Diaz. There are any number of outfielders available who could produce KJ like numbers for less than the 10 million the Braves are paying Furcal. (What makes KJ a valuable commodity is his ability to play 2B.)
You can’t let sentimentality for former Braves effect your judgment of this signing. Unless Wren can use this signing to create a trade that fills two holes (Halladay and Rios) then the team hasn’t really gotten any better.
By nique
December 16, 2008 3:25 PM | Link to this
I don’t think there’s anyone that would argue that the Braves will place any higher than 3rd in the NL East next year as the team is presently put together (even assuming Furcal signed/signs and is healthy). Am I wrong?
By Coach Smith
December 16, 2008 3:27 PM | Link to this
The BRAVES still have plenty of MONEY from their stated amount of 50 million to spend
VAZQUEZ - 11.5
FURCAL- 10 mil
That still leaves them 28.5 million
11-16 million for another starter (Peavy 11 mil now)
Maybe a Bobby Abreu/Burrell for 6-8 million
Then Smoltz for 6-8 million
Holes are then filled
By Tony
December 16, 2008 3:29 PM | Link to this
Where are you DOB.. stop hiding and give us some NEWS!! Any rumors? what are you hearing? lol
By AZBravoFan
December 16, 2008 3:30 PM | Link to this
DOB, Did Furcal’s injury and lack of playing time knock down his free agent rating? In other words, would the Braves have to give up draft picks for signing him?
By chopper2chipper
December 16, 2008 3:30 PM | Link to this
http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/braves/stories/2008/12/16/braves_furcal.html
Thanks a lot to whomever just posted this on the MLBTR.com chat.
By Salty Dawg
December 16, 2008 3:32 PM | Link to this
Wow! I’ve been stuck in airports and on airplanes all day today. First chance I get to check the blog I see a bombshell. Furcal ain’t no top of the rotation pitcher, but I love this move. You could easily argue that Furcy and Esco give the Braves the best middle infield in baseball. Defensively this should take some pressure off of the pitchers, give us a legitimate leadoff speed threat, add another solid bat to the lineup, moving KJ to left may take some pressure off of him (always thought he was better in LF anyway). I have to wonder if this move would have made a difference in the pursuit of Peavy or AJ (assuming that the preferred not to play for Atlanta as a division underdog). Anyway, this may very be one of those acquisitions that sparks the team in many ways. Good move Wren.
By Jerald Holcombe
December 16, 2008 3:33 PM | Link to this
The more I read, the more I get the idea that not too many people believe in Jeff Francouer and his ability to come back and have a great year. This kid was very bad last year, but I believe it was due to him going against baseball logic when he bulked up. He was already a power hitter, but got a bit greedy and it back fired on him. He will make a huge comeback next season and you won’t see anyone trying to pencil him in to the 9 hole again.
By TampaBrave
December 16, 2008 3:34 PM | Link to this
Finally
Acknowledgment that KJ wasn’t cutting it at 2B. DOB’s word was “uncomfortable”. Of course you’re not comfortable if you can’t cut the mustard. For some time, all of you hacks have been apologists for his shoddy, uninspiring defensive play. You used stats that did not paint the real picture. You countered that he was servicable and of course’ “He can rake at the plate”. Of course, this could all be window dressing to gain leverage on another trade, but here’s hoping our defense up the middle stays as mentioned and let’s give these pitchers a leg up instead of a slap in the face.
By Jersey Gil
December 16, 2008 3:35 PM | Link to this
Now that everyone is talking about posible trade: How about Yunel/Boyer for Kazmir, Rays Price will establish as stater they problaly Kazmir be available. Just thinking loud….
By Hiawatha Terrell Wade
December 16, 2008 3:35 PM | Link to this
Dave, with regards to Kelly in the outfield, I recall the first time around that he was less comfortable hitting when he played the OF than when he played 2nd. Felt playing 2nd base kept him more involved in the game and kept him sharper hitting.
Just thinking that while in theory playing OF would allow Kelly to focus on hitting, I think his (for lack of a better term) ADD style of play would actually make it harder for him to keep his head in the game than otherwise.
Kelly Johnson for Rick Ankiel? Will the Cards only accept pitching?
By Ryan
December 16, 2008 3:36 PM | Link to this
nate
sign griffey? i love that idea about 5 years ago. trade for halladay and rios? seriously this is the most unlikely trade proposal i’ve ever heard. i get them trading halladay, but what is everyone thinking rios will be tossed in? he inked a deal last year that signed him through 2014, with an option for 2015 at a clip of less than 10 mill a year. he’s their best young player and a player they could “recuild” around if that’s indeed what they plan to do.
signing griffey definately doesn’t solve any problems, it creates them. and while i agree they still need a #1 and a bat, i think there are better/more likely ways to go about it. now if halladay is available, it’d be hard to think of a better guy to have on your staff. i love that guy. but in the meantime, at least there’s something to be excited about since the braves finally (potentially) made a splash in the market with all this money we’ve heard they have to play with this offseason. but there are still steps that need to be taken for this team to contend in the stacked NL East
By Brian
December 16, 2008 3:36 PM | Link to this
cityofdecatur- You got a link for the Halladay thing? I won’t get my hopes up at all, but can you imagine Halladay and Smoltz at the top..DAMN!! I said it before that I would rather have Halladay than any pitcher, including Sabathia! Check his numbers out against Boston and especially the Yanks. No one is better than Halladay…PERIOD! Only because he pitches in Toronto does he not get the most attention.
By Thrillhouse44
December 16, 2008 3:40 PM | Link to this
Coach Smith, FW stated previously that money used to sign Smoltz and/or Glavine would not come from the 50 million you are referencing. Now, that was before Smoltz drew interest from the Sox, but signing him is supposed to come from a different pile of cash.
By David O'Brien
December 16, 2008 3:41 PM | Link to this
OK, just back from another training class at the downtown office (that was fun, trying to get down there by 2 p.m. after writing all morning). Only 1-1/2 hours to go and I’ve got my 35, finally….
By kirkinga
December 16, 2008 3:41 PM | Link to this
If the Furcal signing goes through and he’s healthy, then I’m ok with the Braves signing another solid starter and resigning Smoltz, Ohman and Glavine and heading on to ST.
As others have already mentioned, reacquiring Furcal gives the Braves options. However, there really is no harm in waiting to see how the team plays and then making a move if needed.For example, the pieces of the Peavy trade would still be here for the trading, if necessary.
Many here were very high on Diaz this time last offseason, and many remain big fans of KJ. So, I would expect them to be more than adequate and which ever one isn’t playing is a good bat to have for pinch hitting duties.
By Tomas
December 16, 2008 3:43 PM | Link to this
Signing Furcal to a 3yr 30 million with a vesting option(which I guess is about 10 million) sound like a pretty good deal. I also like the idea of moving Kelly back to the outfield. No offense to Kelly, but his range was pretty pathetic for 2B, though he had improved.
Yunel and Furcal as DP combo would be great, and having Furcal in 2B would have be better for his back, and I think Yunel has a better arm. But if the Braves had the opportunity to trade Yunel for Greinke, or Peavy I wouldn’t hesitate. But I would like to sign a backup SS(maybe Omar Vizquel) in case Furcal suffers an injury.
By Ryan
December 16, 2008 3:43 PM | Link to this
rebuild*
By rainman
December 16, 2008 3:43 PM | Link to this
The Braves have needed a quality lead-off man ever since Furcal left. It’s silly to give him too much credit, but we were in the playoffs every year he was here and out of the playoffs the last 3 years when he was gone.
The ‘Top Two’ priorities stated for the off season were #1SP and power hitting OF.
I don’t disagree with the need for a star pitcher at the top of our rotation. (By the way, is Hudson definitely out the entire year?)
As far as the power hitter goes — I don’t disagree on the power need — It’s just that the ‘real need’ is for a power hitter that fits the 4hole cleanup. Tex would have fit the bill. Fred McGriff was a pick-up that fit the bill in the past. It’s fine if this hitter is an outfielder, but I don’t think Kotchman should get a free pass if we could get a first baseman who is a power cleanup man.
By tbhawksfan
December 16, 2008 3:44 PM | Link to this
If Furcal and Escobar play infield with KJ holding down LF, we no longer need an OF; So we don’t make a trade, sign the best remaining possible FA and hit the season with
Furcal / Escobar / Chipper / KJ / McCann / Francoeur / Kotchman / Schafer
Sheets / Smoltz / JJ / Vasquez / Morton
We have solid pitching in the rotation and pen. We lack power but the team should produce runs. The four spot is up for grabs.
This senario also keeps all of our prospects and sets us up very nicely for 2010.
By Robert(Chipper Is The Best)
December 16, 2008 3:46 PM | Link to this
Here’s what I think the potential lineup would look like: 1. Furcal 2. Escobar 3. Chipper 4. McCann 5. Johnson 6. Francoeur 7. Kotchman 8. Schaefer/Anderson/Blanco
By Dan
December 16, 2008 3:47 PM | Link to this
Crazy move, Furcal is one of the most overpaid players in the league. Hitting stats he doesn’t break the top 10 any where whether you sort by ss or leadoff, hardly steals bases anymore, fielding stats are worse than his hitting. He is a solid just above average player worth around $1M not $10 and I am talking about past stats (they are there to read if you like) future even if he isn’t hurt, with his style and refusal to learn the game, his best years are behind him. there is zero logic to this, again unless his salary has been slashed
By nolie
December 16, 2008 3:48 PM | Link to this
Wolf, Perez, and Garland are not. Plus, he won’t cost us any prospects and our #7 draft pick is protected. Steve from Ohio
They aren’t, I agree, but with that infield defense do you think they may be satisfied to go with a second-tier worm-killer? I really see no way that they are gonna spring for the years that Lowe wants at his age.
By Wayne in Utah
December 16, 2008 3:51 PM | Link to this
nique Does it really matter what anybody thinks about where the Braves finish with the team they have today? That will not be the team they have on April 1st. Let’s give it some time, let FW get things a little more squared away, and then see where it takes us.
As for next year, rarely do teams repeat these days. The Phillies will probably be down a bit from last year (just my guess, predicated on the “rarely do teams repeat” theory.
The Mets have quite a few good players, but again, they are not totally bulletproof either. They could go either way.
The Braves obviously have been a disappointment the past few years. Does that mean we have a ceiling of 3rd place? I wouldn’t want to make those sort of ascertions.
Who’d a thunk the Cards a few years back would win the Series, or the Chisox. I was personally shocked the Phillies won it last year. Sometimes a team just flat out comes together at the end of September, and takes the cake.
I like the idea of Ankiel for one year, so long as we are not fleeced to get him (Boyer and Prado, does that sound fair?) Who knows, maybe he will can Boras like some of his other clients (Sheffield, Rogers, Guthrie) or just tell him to abide by his wishes (like Pena of TB).
I am OK with the Braves keeping all 3 guys (KJ, Esco and Furcal) if that is what happens, but I do expect them to be fully engaged in trying to get another starter, and to be honest, I hope it is NOT Jake Peavy. I have had enough of his BS.
If they end up keeping all 3, I expect to see a late FA signing (after these second tier guys sweat it out a bit). Then, we sit back and wait for Hanson to emerge as the next staff leader. Who knows, last year we had such darned bad luck, maybe next year is the total opposite, and everybody returns to their former capabilities, and a couple of the youngsters (Hanson, Reyes, Morton) take the next step toward being a solid ML starter.
Enough said. Back to work.
By FloridaBrave
December 16, 2008 3:52 PM | Link to this
GREAT signing by the Braves, but don’t believe that the Braves have “no intention” of trading Escobar/Johnson. That’s a total smokescreen by the Braves to maintain leverage in negotiations. The Braves would really hurt Johnson’s value by moving him to LF so he/or Escobar will be moved for a starting pitcher/outfielder. I don’t think the Braves would pull the trigger on this without the framework of a deal in place(like Wren already said he had) and I see something going down quickly after Furcal passes his physical and this deal is finalized.
By DCbrave
December 16, 2008 3:53 PM | Link to this
Lack of a good leadoff man was never the principal reason why the Braves failed to get to the playoff in the past 3 years. So, signing Furcal without getting a real ace pitcher and/or another power hitter is not going to get us there either. Period.
By kirkinga
December 16, 2008 3:53 PM | Link to this
I don’t think there’s anyone that would argue that the Braves will place any higher than 3rd in the NL East next year as the team is presently put together (even assuming Furcal signed/signs and is healthy). Am I wrong? nique
You may be right but you may be assuming that the Phils and Mets will not have any injuries or performance or chemistry issues. The Phils’s(and Mets) starters aren’t impressive after their #1’s and if Lidge doesn’t stay near perfect, then we could have a tighter race than some assume.
By David O'Brien
December 16, 2008 3:53 PM | Link to this
Folks, when a rumor (Halladay) is so unsupported that it can’t even make the rumor-mill sites, well, that’s all you probably need to know. Not that making those sites gives it considerable credibility or anything, but not making them? Well, then you’re on seriously shaky ground.
Do you guys realize what it would take to make the Jays trade one of the best, most durable pitchers of the past decade? Begin with Escobar and then add several top prospects including probably a very highly regarded pitcher or two.
By shugie
December 16, 2008 3:54 PM | Link to this
Yes, Halladay is a BEAST, a true 9 inning animal in a crappy team in a tough division
20 wins with crap back up is amazing
Rather have him than any other pitcher, including CC and Santana
By dave
December 16, 2008 3:55 PM | Link to this
There are reports out there that Furcal has NOT signed with the Braves. Has Furcal signed with the Braves or not?
By Arkansas Braves fan
December 16, 2008 3:55 PM | Link to this
I think someone heard holiday and thought they heard Halladay.
By Ron Roberts
December 16, 2008 3:56 PM | Link to this
A little reminder, though, Braves fans…
…we grumbled a good bit about Furcal when we had him. Remember the horrendous, prolonged slumps he’d go into, or the “swing for the fences” cuts he’d take instead of just getting on base and being a menace with his speed?
Here’s hoping he returns a more mature player who realizes he’s not a power-hitter, but a rally-starter.
By Daybed Wagmoe
December 16, 2008 3:56 PM | Link to this
Brian and others — here’s a link to the Toronto Star article about trading Roy Halladay. It doesn’t seem like there’s much to this article, other than it’s an op-ed piece (as was stated above). It was also written on Dec. 12th…
By austinbrave
December 16, 2008 3:57 PM | Link to this
I think the Halladay trade to Atlanta is true. Here’s the Toronto Star sports headline.
“Time for Blue Jays to trade Roy Halladay”
Read article Torontostar.com
By DCbrave
December 16, 2008 3:57 PM | Link to this
Compared to the Orioles’ deal with Izturis (5 mils for 2 years), this imminent Furcal deal may not be that good of a deal after all.
By Robert(Chipper Is The Best)
December 16, 2008 3:58 PM | Link to this
I would love to have Derek Lowe but not at $16.5 mil and three years. And that is what he and Boras want. Personally I would rather have Oliver Perez at $13 mil a year and five years. Not that I would really want that either. But, it would be better than committing three years to a 35 year old Lowe
By Bubdylan
December 16, 2008 3:58 PM | Link to this
I was all excited when the Furcal news broke. But I didn’t know he finished the year with tentative playing, including a three-error flop in the post-season.
shrugs
By Coach Smith
December 16, 2008 3:58 PM | Link to this
Thrillhouse44
You are right, I had forgot about Wren saying that
That just makes the suggestions that much more “Do-able”
Furthermore, it would allow the BRAVES to either pick up a higher priced LF or add another lower cost pitcher
By John Adcox
December 16, 2008 3:58 PM | Link to this
Personally, I think this move was made for one reason, and one reason only. Options. The Braves now have a trade piece, should the right move present itself. If they don’t sign Furcal, that option is closed, period.
They now have an option for left field. If things change midseason, the team has an extra bargaining chip. The Braves are putting themselves in a position to have more possible roads open to them. From a pure agility point of view, I think it was brilliant.
By BravesFan79
December 16, 2008 4:01 PM | Link to this
Glad everyone came to my side on the Halladay thing!! I say Keep Escobar because we need a good backup for Chipper at 3rd! And move KJ into a outfield platoon with Diaz!!
Man what a strong Bench and Bullpen were going to have next year!!
By Ron Roberts
December 16, 2008 4:03 PM | Link to this
Robert (JIB) I’d have a lineup more like this…
Furcal, KJ, Chipper, McCann, Escobar, Kotchman, Francoeur, CF, P.
Why?
Because after McCann, you’re starting with a “second” leadoff hitter-like option, and doing like you did at the top of your order to begin with - following with a hits-for-average rally-continuer, followed by some pop. Obviously Francoeur’s a downgrade from Chipper, but if he regains his form, he’s a reasonable option for that role, again. I just think that gives starters fits knowing they have to go through two versions of a 1-3, with McCann in the middle.
The other thought is having Kotchman behind McCann so Yunel’s speed isn’t stuned, having to run behind McCann.
By mbatl
December 16, 2008 4:03 PM | Link to this
Halladay’s 9 complete games and at least 8 IP in 6 others last year is his most impressive stat (to me, anyway). Man, how much relief does that offer your bullpen?
But, given just 2 years under contract, and the boatload of young talent it would take to get him, probably have to move on from that idea.
BravesFanInRockies, thanks for the clarification on Diaz’ status (got to re-up my MLB rules certification, I guess). And to those who commented on Hudson: I don’t really agree… if he comes back and pitches decently in late ‘09, he’ll be offered a lot of years/money for ‘10 and beyond (a lot more than $12 mil) … but do appreciate the comments. I think it’s always assumed he’ll be back in 2010, but to me that’s not a guarantee.
By Wayne in Utah
December 16, 2008 4:03 PM | Link to this
DOB Don’t training suck!
Do you sense that any conversations are happening between FW and Towers?
We kinda got diss’d by Peavy. I really hope that is not the trade FW is working up.
By Billy Pilgrim
December 16, 2008 4:04 PM | Link to this
Dan (in re:Furcal) He is a solid just above average player worth around $1M
I know it’s mean to pick at people’s opinions…but…
LOL WUT
By DAP
December 16, 2008 4:09 PM | Link to this
thrillhouse44 FW stated previously that money used to sign Smoltz and/or Glavine would not come from the 50 million you are referencing.
thats actually incorrect. this has been cleared up by DOB. he reminded us that what frank wren said is that signing smoltz and/or glavine would be beyond the two starters he wants to get.
in other words, its the same pile of money, but wren wasnt planning on signing smoltz and glavine and then saying “here are our two top pitchers i promised!”
By Nate
December 16, 2008 4:10 PM | Link to this
The Halladay and Rios rumors started early on here this morning. I didn’t originate them, but it doesn’t seem out of the question.
Halladay has only two years left on his contract, as opposed to the four to five of Peavy. Rios signed a big contract and then flopped last year. He took a significant step backwards last year. Maybe he was hurt, I don’t know. But the scuttlebutt a few weeks ago at least was that the Jays were looking at his contract as a liability.
It still seems unlikely to me, but if Wren could pull off a trade like this at least the Furcal signing would make sense.
I think signing Griffey to platoon with Diaz in LF makes more sense than moving KJ to LF. Griffey won’t cost 10 million per year, and he could still put up solid numbers in the outfield.
By Tim P
December 16, 2008 4:10 PM | Link to this
I don’t even care what anybody else says. I’m not even going to read any responses to this comment or previous comments so save your fingers and don’t even respond to my post.
The Braves will be a better team with Furcal in the lineup. Period. Personally, I like the idea of Furcal and Escobar up the middle. They are both very exciting players with incredible defensive skills, and they both speak Spanish, which whether you want to believe it or not, will make a difference on more than a few plays out there.
Secondly, I like the idea of Johnson/Diaz platoon in left field over any available free agent. We do NOT want in Atlanta the likes of Burrell, Dunn, or Griffey. I know KJ’s numbers weren’t where we’d all like them to be last season, but for those of us that got to see nearly all his homers, let me tell you that this kid can put a rip in the ball like very few. I mean, he hit some SHOTS!! Anyway..
We still need an ace. That is most certain. I don’t think there is anybody in Bravesland that will tell you different. But, you cannot slam Frank Wren for not trying to get what was available. We all knew we weren’t going after CC, and the Peavy deal would’ve been great, but c’mon, this guy said from jump that he didn’t think the Braves could win. That alone, should’ve let us know that we didn’t need him here. That kind of attitude is just unacceptable in baseball. Burnett, that is another story. 80 million is WAAYY too much for him, and yet the Braves still didn’t get him because he’d rather be a #2, than a #1 starter?? Again, that is convincing enough that we do not want that kind of mentality here in Atlanta.
Frank Wren will do whatsoever is necessary to provide us with some kind of Ace for this season. I’m sure of that. It may not look pretty getting it done, but he knows that our francise wants to win, first and foremost, and we have some money to spend to get it done. Personally, I think with what’s left on the FA market, I think Ben Sheets is the only viable other option to bring here, but I don’t think it’s going to happen.
Jurrgens
Campillo
Morton and in September
Hudson
By DCbrave
December 16, 2008 4:12 PM | Link to this
Daybed Wagmoe:
You are right - there is really nothing in that article. It is purely Griffin’s personal opinion, not even a rumor.
By Arkansas Braves fan
December 16, 2008 4:13 PM | Link to this
Its hard to imagine Furcal with his arm playing 2nd. Kotchman will crap his pants everytime he sees the ball hit to 2nd.
By AdirondackDave
December 16, 2008 4:17 PM | Link to this
Hey DOB —- Not for nuttin’ but why in the world are experienced, successful writers like yourself called in for “training classes” and what actually goes on in those classes. Just curious
By Skeezix
December 16, 2008 4:19 PM | Link to this
I don’t get this at all. Wren must have rocks for brains. He has gone down a bunny trail and, as a result, we now have an infielder (with a possible bad arm/shoulder) we don’t need. J.S. needs to kick his butt, get him off the bunny trail and remind him we need pitching. Better yet, fire him.
This is total B.S. and a waste of time/money.
Next year we will be the NL East doormat.
What an idiot!
By Steve from OH
December 16, 2008 4:19 PM | Link to this
nolie, unless Furcal can sit in the LF bleachers, I don’t see how Garland/Wolf is a good signing for us. I agree that the defense would be great, but good enough to give them 3-4 years at 10MM plus? Not a chance. I just don’t think it’s a wise investment—would you invest 10MM in Garland performing for three years? There are better ways to spend our money, I think. I’m totally ok with giving a proven commodity like Lowe an extra year or a few extra bucks than I am with giving a below-average, on-the-decline guy like Garland an average or below-average contract. Gimme Morton and Hanson instead.
Perez? Not at what Boras is asking…
btw, did you see the link I posted the other day about Hanson’s mechanics? I was wondering what you thought of it…
By Bubdylan
December 16, 2008 4:23 PM | Link to this
I’m not even going to read any responses to this comment Tim P,
made ya look.
Not a very mature blogging approach, brother. And I know you’re reading this. laughs like The Joker
By bravefanatic
December 16, 2008 4:24 PM | Link to this
Just heard Furcal now considering Yankees offer of 5 yr 100 mil
By Spencer
December 16, 2008 4:26 PM | Link to this
DOB, If the Braves aren’t able to land a top pitcher, do you think this will increase the chance the Braves will offer more money for Smoltz in order to fend of teams like the Red Sox?
By J.L.
December 16, 2008 4:27 PM | Link to this
IMO. KJ has done everything asked of him,I personally think he has bad hands for an infielder. I would like to see what kind of year he would have playing LF and batting 6th, and being left alone for one year. That means leaving him stay in one spot in the batting order and one defensive position.
By Chop Chop
December 16, 2008 4:29 PM | Link to this
Tim P,
Don’t read this.
You’re a fool.
“…and the Peavy deal would’ve been great, but c’mon, this guy said from jump that he didn’t think the Braves could win. That alone, should’ve let us know that we didn’t need him here. That kind of attitude is just unacceptable in baseball.”
You fool.
Your attitude is unacceptable in baseball. Why? You’re a fool. Also, we don’t know what the hell (if anything) Peavy has said about the Braves. You have no clue, my foolish friend. No damn clue whatsoever. I really hope Wren trades for Peavy now. I want you to whine and b*** and moan and grit your teeth and stomp your feet and scream and cry and whine again just because that evil Jake Peavy is sullying the Holy Tomahawk.
(That didn’t hurt my fingers at all. Not a bit.)
By Tomas
December 16, 2008 4:29 PM | Link to this
I was just reading the mlb transcript in mlbtraderumors, what Tim Dierkes thinks can happen with the Braves:
1:54 [Comment From Zach] Will the Padres seriously hang onto Peavy until the season starts? Don’t they have to go back to the Braves on their hands and knees? 1:55 Alderson says it’s likely, I have no reason not to believe him. The only reason the Padres might get desperate is if Moores’ divorce necessitates moving him. Otherwise, nothing will be lost and it may even be better to wait til midseason. So if Towers pulls off a nice midseason deal, it was wrong to call the Padres winter meetings losers.
2:01 [Comment From jla] Do you really see the braves putting kelly johnson back in left field if they do sign furcal??? Is that the best they can do for an outfield bat? 2:01 It seems like a waste of a competent middle infielder to put him out there. Especially with some solid, affordable free agents out there and money to spend.
2:02 [Comment From braves.today.com] Do we put Kelly Johnson back in left, or dangle Yunel Escobar or Johnson for another starting pitcher? 2:02 Despite the statements I feel like they want to see if they can find a good young starter for Escobar.
2:09 [Comment From Mike] Any fit for Kelly Johnson heading to Cleveland? 2:10 KJ fits for the Tribe, but I dont know what they’d send back that’d suit the Braves’ needs.
2:19 [Comment From Tomas] Would the royals be interested in Yunel Escobar? A Zack Greinke for Yunel Escobar(and others) would be good for both teams. 2:19 It’s not unreasonable, though the Royals would need to receive good pitching back. Plus Aviles did a solid job at SS this year
2:20 [Comment From Guest] Let’s me honest here, Kelly Johnson isn’t going to the outfield, Wren has said it, and he doesn’t have the arm to anymore since TJ surgery. So, they are either going to trade somebody or just have an abundance of MIF which like you said never hurts. 2:21 The KJ to the OF thing came from Mark Bowman of MLB.com. But lets wait until Furcal has signed.
2:22 [Comment From JASON J.] Escobar and some prospects for Matt Cain? 2:22 Well, I dont think the Giants signed Renteria to not play him at SS. And he’d be overpaid as a 2B.
2:23 [Comment From Cardinals Front Office] Do we have any interest in obtaining KJ or Escobar, and if so, are we giving up Ludwick or Ankiel? 2:23 They seem set at SS and 2B is not a top priority, so no.
2:38 [Comment From Adam] Do you think the Braves and Jon Garland would be a good fit? 2:38 I’d try to get a guy with a little more upside, but at the right price it could be OK. To be a 4, or 5th starter.
2:48 [Comment From Timmy] I have heard some grumblings about a trade involving the Jays moving Halladay to Atlanta for Escobar, Morton, Gorkys Hernandez and others… Could you see any possibility of this one happening? The Jays certainly seem like prime candidates to blow it up, and rebuild. 2:48 A nice match if the Jays decide to trade Halladay, which they definitely have not.
Ryan: “pitcher more likely to be traded before the beginning of the season: Caine, Greinke, Peavy, Oswalt or Kazmir.” tim:”I will take Peavy”.. To which team??? 2:49 I will take the Braves.
2:50 [Comment From Ryan] Can Peavy to the Braves still happen? Mark Bowman or Dave O’Brien said that Atlanta players and front office had serious doubts he would waive his clause to come? Too much bad blood don’t you think? 2:51 I think they can get past the bad blood but I cant say whats in Jake Peavy’s mind. I agree that that is the biggest stumbling block.
2:56 [Comment From Mike] Do you think Jordan Schafer will be ready for the bigs this coming season? 2:56 Yeah I think he will help them out this summer.
By David O'Brien
December 16, 2008 4:29 PM | Link to this
Adirondack, it’s across-the-board requirement. I don’t make the rules, just follow them.
By Efrim
December 16, 2008 4:30 PM | Link to this
Dodgers still talking with Furcal:
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081216&contentid=3719276&vkey=newsla&fext=.jsp&cid=la&partnerId=rssla
It says Colletti won’t give Furcal three guaranteed years.
By DAP
December 16, 2008 4:31 PM | Link to this
nate I think signing Griffey to platoon with Diaz in LF makes more sense than moving KJ to LF. Griffey won’t cost 10 million per year, and he could still put up solid numbers in the outfield.
griffey makes less sense than kelly, since kelly will make WAY less than $10mil and put up better numbers.
arkansas braves fan Its hard to imagine Furcal with his arm playing 2nd. Kotchman will crap his pants everytime he sees the ball hit to 2nd.
that is hilarious.
By Tony
December 16, 2008 4:31 PM | Link to this
Dodger Gm speaks out…
Despite a flurry of rumors that Rafael Furcal has agreed to a contract with the Atlanta Braves, Dodgers general manager Ned Colletti said he’s been told by the shortstop’s agent that the Dodgers are still under consideration.
“We’re still in conversations with them,” Colletti said Tuesday. “I don’t have a feel whether to be optimistic or not. I just know we’re still talking. They assured us it’s not a done deal. There’s a certain level we’re not going past. We aren’t aware of other deals.”
By Chop Chop
December 16, 2008 4:32 PM | Link to this
Furcal just signed with the Cards for three years, $30.
His agent didn’t catch the typo.
By Brooklyn Braves Brawler
December 16, 2008 4:34 PM | Link to this
This was a great move to make the team leaner and meaner. This means more hit and run, more stole bases, and better defense up the middle. This gives us the ability to win one-run games in September when it gets tougher to score runs.
By DCbrave
December 16, 2008 4:36 PM | Link to this
Why? You’re a fool. Also, we don’t know what the hell (if anything) Peavy has said about the Braves. You have no clue, my foolish friend. No damn clue whatsoever. I really hope Wren trades for Peavy now. I want you to whine and b and moan and grit your teeth and stomp your feet and scream and cry and whine again just because that evil Jake Peavy is sullying the Holy Tomahawk* -ChopChop**
Wow! You’re really chopping, man! I like it though.
By McFann O –[zzz]
December 16, 2008 4:37 PM | Link to this
Lew Salty-I should have added Ask McFann. She knows everything about animals-real or fictitious.
Haha…Thanks. Though I’m not too up to speed with Unicorns…at least, not that particular aspect of their um…life.
FSUbravesfan10 other than Francouer’s small OBP, we really don’t have a rally killer unless McCann hits a ball on the ground with runners on base (sorry McFann).*
Yeah, watch that! ; > I know it happens sometimes…
So the Braves are keeping Johnson and Escobar?? Gosh, I hope so…
By Jimmy
December 16, 2008 4:37 PM | Link to this
Tomas, Tim Dierkes is like me or you commenting on this stuff. Great site. He does excellent work, but he just another guy. Not an expert/analyst or scout. Not someone whose opinion I value.
By Thrillhouse44
December 16, 2008 4:37 PM | Link to this
DAP, thanks for clearing that up. I’d give you daps if you were here.
By flange1
December 16, 2008 4:40 PM | Link to this
Interesting thoughts on the old blog today!
When the “trade” was announced, my thoughts were this was the first of a couple of moves that would include the trade of Yunel for a pitcher.
As I have thought about it today, maybe there could be some legs to keeping KJ, Yunel and Furcal.
No doubt in my mind that the infield defense would improve.
Also have a much improved top of the order.
I would like to see KJ full time in left field, no platoon! I feel so strong on this that I would trade Diaz to eliminate the manger chance to use a platoon!
If you then signed Wiggenton, you would have very strong bench.
I know we need an arm, excuse me a top of the order arm, I still think Sheets on a 2 year deal would be great.
If Smoltz and or Glavine can pitch all the better.
Not the most powerful lineup in the world, but should be consistent in OPB and runs scored.
If Frenchy bounces back and can be the cleanup hitter we all hoped he would be, this team could contend…
By Ryan
December 16, 2008 4:40 PM | Link to this
DOB i checked out that show Leverage last night on demand. i gotta say, i was hoping for more. it seemed a little corney but hutton is legit. the bad guy from the 1st episode was weak in the episode and the blonde chic seems like she’ll get annoying. i’ll be watching again tonight, but i hope things turn around a bit because it seems like its got a lot of potential. plus i love the fact that its in chicago.
By Ronald Millsaps
December 16, 2008 4:42 PM | Link to this
I’m very glad to see Rafael Furcal back. I’m optimistic about the ramifications that his re-acquisition provides, such as a great shortstop, a great hitter, great speed, and even some power.
I like also the fact that he is a true Brave, someone who came up through the farm system.
I’d move Escobar (yes, I’d keep him) to the “five” hole and let Josh Anderson, the second-fastest player in the lineup, bat second. I’d then go Chipper-McCann-Francoeur-Kotchman-Johnson, in order, for the slots not mentioned.
I’d run Furcal and Anderson until their cleats fell off.
I repeat: Starting pitching isn’t as much a need as many think. We have four proven starters as it is. Re-sign John Smoltz, who’s better than Sabathia or Burnett; give the bullpen the lead from the sixth/seventh inning on (don’t give the offense the night off, though, of course), and remember that Tim Hudson should be back in August. (Tommy Hanson also is in the picture.)
James is right; Kelly Johnson to left is a good move. I’ve been saying for a while that his bat decreases the need for Dunn/Burrell IF we give him the steady starts and 600-plus at-bats that he deserves. By “steady”, I refer to his need to bat also in the same slot.
The Falcons need to tighten up in a few areas. This team could win it all if it gets in. They’re a lot better than they were in 2004, a lot more exciting, too.
By doug
December 16, 2008 4:43 PM | Link to this
I like the idea of signing Furcal, and trading Escobar to the Dodgers for Kemp. Straight up.
By Nate
December 16, 2008 4:44 PM | Link to this
By every measurable stat Johnson was a pretty middle of the road 2B. You can’t just judge him on ball you “think” he should be able to reach. To be objective you have to compare him to the other 2B in the league. In the NL last year there were only 7 player who played enough games at 2B to qualify and KJ was one of them. There’s no reason to continue to rag on his defense. Plus since having TJ surgery he may not have the arm to play the outfield. 2B is the best place for KJ.
Besides, didn’t we all see Furcal make three errors in one inning in the playoffs. His errors made Dan Uggla look like a gold glover. Furcal is not the defender he was five years ago, plus he’s likely to miss time with that bad back.
By DAP
December 16, 2008 4:44 PM | Link to this
thrillhouse44 I’d give you daps if you were here.
ha! thanx.
By Bubdylan
December 16, 2008 4:45 PM | Link to this
This was a great move to make the team leaner and meaner. This means more hit and run, more stole bases Brooklyn Braves Brawler
Cox Retired? Do you have a source?
By Gone Viral
December 16, 2008 4:46 PM | Link to this
Do you guys realize what it would take to make the Jays trade one of the best, most durable pitchers of the past decade? — DOB
To be fair, boss, isn’t it about what the Twins got to trade an even better pitcher in Johan? I recognize that a deal would require a bit more than the Twins got in all probability.
Even so, with the situation the Jays face in the AL East (clearly fourth best at the moment and closer to fifth than second), the ownership flux with Rogers’ death and Halladay only under contract for only 2 more years, it’s not as crazy as it should be. Plus, we know they are worried about their SS, which is why they were in on Furcal.
The Jays also have benefit of knowing from the Peavy fiasco what the Braves will and will not do. So, they already have a feel for what they could get if they went through with this. Unless we bag Greinke immediately, wouldn’t both parties be foolish to at least pick up the phone and say, “So…”?
By spotts
December 16, 2008 4:46 PM | Link to this
Any words/thoughts on who’s playing center next year? Doesn’t seem like Schafer will be ready yet.
By Glen W
December 16, 2008 4:48 PM | Link to this
Furcal’s agent: “I… I… I.. didn’t want him to make an emotional decision.” Yeah right, you did not want him to leave guranteed money on the table because that is money out of your pocket.
By Thorman's Jock Strap
December 16, 2008 4:48 PM | Link to this
DOB — what gives? Is the deal done, or not? Colletti says LA’s still in it…
?
Can’t you call your vaunted source(s) in the Braves’ FO and get a confirmation?
By Don
December 16, 2008 4:51 PM | Link to this
I love this Furcal signing.
Is it a coincidence that the Braves have not been to the playoff for the three years that Furcal has been gone (granted with the injuries last season it would not have made a difference whether Furcal was here orm not.) ? I think that the addition of an offensive catalyst would certainly be of great assistance in reaching post season.
I would MUCH rather have speed than another power bat. Let’s get a team that can put pressure on the opposing defense. Speed does not go into a slump.
I really like moving KJ back to LF. Of course after seeing him play the position defensively I might revise that opinion, but I doubt it since he has already played it and is certainly better defensively than Burrell and Dunn who most seem to love. Yes, he may not have their power but he does not cost a draft pick and hits for better average and can steal a base or two at times. I also believe that he has made some progress offensively and can be a consistent 20-25 home run and 80 rbi guy for the future.
Regarding pitching: Yes, I would love to get another starter but if we have to go into the season with Smoltz, JJ, Vazquez, Campillo and Glavine/Morton/Hansen as the starters (yes, I do believe that Smoltz will be back) then I would be satisfied.
Of course, Halladay would be great, but at what price?
By Braveheart
December 16, 2008 4:54 PM | Link to this
I was just reading the mlb transcript in mlbtraderumors, what Tim Dierkes thinks can happen with the Braves
No offense but who cares what Dierkes thinks about anything? He does a great job with that site. It’s really become invaluable during the hot stove season and the trade deadline. However, his value lies solely in the collection of info from many different sources into one centralized location ….. that’s the limit of his value. His thoughts, feelings, belief have no more value or validity than any other fan’s. It’s nice to hear an alternative view if he has one. However, don’t cite him like he’s an authoritative source.
By nitram odarp
December 16, 2008 4:57 PM | Link to this
wonder if Frenchy will get an invite to the WBC roster this year…… i am guessing with last years success he is a sure lock.
By Jerald Holcombe
December 16, 2008 4:57 PM | Link to this
To Skeezix
*This is total B.S. and a waste of time/money.
Next year we will be the NL East doormat.*
As opposed to what we are close to becoming, we may be already closer to the bottom than the top.
By ncscoots
December 16, 2008 4:57 PM | Link to this
This means more hit and run, more stole bases, and…the ability to win one-run games in September when it gets tougher to score runs.
That assumes, of course, that your offense can score enough runs to tie the game first.
Personally, I prefer winning by, oh, five or six, rather than one. Close games can be decided by luck late, and playing too many of them increases the potential for disaster. And, without a thumper in the middle of the order, the Braves are likely to play more close games than they reasonably should. Unless 2009 is a perfect storm of all the younger players having breakouts and rebounds. And, by that, I don’t mean their SB percentage.
By Nate
December 16, 2008 5:01 PM | Link to this
DAP-
Junior would obviously be a stopgap for the Braves. Do you really think that KJ could up better numbers than a Griffey-Diaz platoon? In the past two years Junior has hit 48 home runs, 18 this year playing part time. KJ has hit 37 for his entire career and only 12 this year. Plus Junior can hit cleanup. Junior could actually fill a hole instead of just “creating options.”
Junior has been a bit injury prone in recent years, but considering Furcal’s back, I would bet that Furcal will miss more games due to injury than Junior next year. Plus Junior isn’t looking a four year deal, or a 10 million dollar salary.
Junior would be a better signing for the Braves, unless signing Furcal facilitates a trade.
By Brooklyn Braves Brawler
December 16, 2008 5:03 PM | Link to this
* Buddylan*
LOL. I agree, Bobby is not the most innovative manager. But a blind man can see that you use the speed aspect to fill power deficiencies. HR’s are overrated, I’ll tkae total bases any day of the week.
Of course, Frency needs to rebound and I would look at B.Jones getting starts in right regularly to spell Frenchy. When Frenchy starts going bad, he needs to sit for a couple of days.
By Mac
December 16, 2008 5:04 PM | Link to this
Well, Schuerholz started by strengthening the defense up the middle. Now, maybe take a chance on Ben Sheets, but don’t sign him to a ridiculous deal.
By Don
December 16, 2008 5:05 PM | Link to this
I do love the thought of Halladay in a Braves uniform, but I believe that he is signed for just one more year. I would certainly hate to trade a lot for a one year rental, even if that player is Halladay.
We just went that route and it was not pretty.
By TennesseePaul
December 16, 2008 5:10 PM | Link to this
So how much would this hurt if Furcal is pulling an AJ? Using the Braves to drive up the Dodger contract to his likings…
By Hoosier Aaron
December 16, 2008 5:10 PM | Link to this
Currently - the Blue Jays have a total of $236 million obligated to Rolen, Ryan, Wells, Rios and Halladay.
Rolen, Ryan and Halladay have two years remaining..Wells and Rios several years.
Who would have guessed the Rays win that division this year? So, it’s not completely out of the question that the Blue Jays could surprise.
But that’s a lot money of pay when you’re chasing the Yanks, Sox and Rays.
They could finish behind those teams without Halladay and save $30 Million.
That would be an interesting conversation - I’d think.
By Anders
December 16, 2008 5:11 PM | Link to this
Doug
I like the idea of signing Furcal, and trading Escobar to the Dodgers for Kemp. Straight up.
I assume you mean Steve Kemp the grave digger?
By Fan-coeur (Frenchy has heart)
December 16, 2008 5:12 PM | Link to this
Forget Peavy. I read Kansas City desperately needs a shortstop: Greinke for Yuni.
Go Braves!
By TennesseePaul
December 16, 2008 5:13 PM | Link to this
That assumes, of course, that your offense can score enough