AJC > Sports > Braves > Blog > Archives > 2008 > December > 11 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USThis isn’t what Braves planned
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Las Vegas — There was a time when the Braves didn’t have to worry about whether a player would waive a no-trade clause to come to Atlanta. A time when the Braves would go dollar-for-dollar with the Yankees or anyone else. A time when seemingly every pitcher wanted to be a Brave.
That time has passed.
Players do not want to come to Atlanta the way they used to want to come to Atlanta. Especially pitchers. It’s still more attractive than a majority of the 30 teams in baseball, but not necessarily more attractive, or even as attractive, as a handful or more big-money, big-market teams competing for top players.
Much of that has to do with the facts that A., the Braves have missed the postseason for three years running, and will have to knock off the defending World Series champions and/or the new-stadiumed, deep-pocketed N.Y. Mets to get to the playoffs in 2009; and 2., the Braves are competing against a few teams, one in particular (hint: pinstripes), that are spending far more money than the Braves.
If the Braves’ payroll is arbitrary and not set by ownership, then I’d suggest it might be time to raise it about $10 million above whatever that private payroll figure was that Braves officials had in mind. That, or realize that it’s going to take a confluence of favorable events to get the Braves into the postseason next year, because they just aren’t going to have a combination of rotation/bullpen/lineup that stacks up against the Mets and Phillies without getting at least one more top-notch starting pitcher and another big bat to help out Chipper Jones and Brian McCann.
The Yankees overnight became the first team to guarantee a fifth year for Burnett, Peter Gammons reports. That’s the length of contract Burnett’s agent had said would be there for his client, now it is. I thought all along that the Braves would be willing to guarantee that fifth year, too, but now I’m not sure if they will. We might soon know if they did, probably after Burnett signs with the Yankees.
This is history most of you already know, but here goes: Until five or six years ago, the Braves were in the top five consistently in major league league payroll, and sometime in the top three, very close to the Yankees’ spending levels. They’ve spent between one-third and one-half of what the Yankees have spent in payroll during the past five seasons, and the divide is only growing with every new contract the Evil Empire hands out as it pursues market saturation of pitching talent.
The Braves, then owned by Time Warner, cut back their spending earlier this decade, while the Yankees literally doubled their payrolls from those days when they and the Braves used to have payrolls just over $100 mill (it really wasn’t long ago, believe it or not).
Don’t get me wrong: The Braves aren’t some sort of woebegone, hopeless franchise with no hope of drawing any free agents; they’re just not one of the top draws for the top free agents anymore. That’s the big difference that a lot of long-time fans are struggling to accept, or are angrily accepting.
Bobby Cox might retire after next season, and players know that. There’s that uncertainty, plus no reason to believe that payroll will rise significantly in the future to give the Braves the power to compete for most top free agents.
What they do have is a rebuilt farm system that’s once again regarded as one of baseball’s best, and plenty of payroll flexibility in the future, as only Brian McCann is signed beyond 2009. But until they get back to the postseason, until they show players they can win again, I don’t know how much a farm system and future payroll flexibility matter to attractive free agents and players with no-trade clauses.
And whereas the Braves of old would have been the ideal destination for a country boy from Alabama who grew up cheering for them, it’s now a team that, according to a couple of people I know who have talked to Peavy, does not excite him because he doesn’t think they are on a level with the Mets and Phillies and he’s had enough of losing with the Padres.
If it’s any consolation, Braves fans should at least know that Peavy doesn’t appear at all to be the type of guy who’d want to come in and put the Braves on his back and lead them back to prosperity, like their aces of old. Instead, it now appears pretty clear that he’d prefer to go to Chicago — so much for that Southern Boy-wants-to-go-home notion — and pitch for an already formed playoff team.
Now, we’ll soon find out if A.J. Burnett prefers the Yankees and the juggernaut they’re assembling for their first season at new Yankee Stadium, over a return to the NL with the Braves, who may or may not match the Yankees’ contract offer, but, so far at least, have been very close (the Braves’ first offer, four years and $60 mill with an option for a fifth year) was already far longer and richer than they would have envisioned spending on Burnett a couple of months ago, when they were optimistic about their chances of landing Peavy, the 2007 Cy Young Award winner from Mobile, who was owed $63 mill over the next four seasons or $81 over the next five, either figure not out of line for a pitcher of his ilk.
But here we are, 2-1/2 months into the offseason, wrapping up the Winter Meetings this morning, and the Braves have so far this offseason acquired Javier Vazquez, a good middle-rotation starter but no ace, and backup catcher Dave Ross, and a couple of promising but unaccomplished lefty relievers.
The outlook could change in a hurry. Maybe the Braves suddenly decide, “You know what? We really, really need Burnett or Derek Lowe, or Ben Sheets, so let’s match or surpass any offer for at least one of those guys.” Then the Braves have a guy who, if healthy, can go toe-to-toe most nights with any other team’s ace, a guy who could set the tone for the rest of a rotation that would suddenly look pretty solid.
But so far, the outlook isn’t exactly splendid for Los Bravos.
”THERE SHE GOES, MY BEAUTIFUL WORLD” by Nick Cave
The wintergreen, the juniper
The cornflower and the chicory
All the words you said to me
Still vibrating in the air
The elm, the ash and the linden tree
The dark and deep, enchanted sea
The trembling moon and the stars unfurled
There she goes, my beautiful world
There she goes, my beautiful world
There she goes, my beautiful world
There she goes, my beautiful world
There she goes again
John Wilmot penned his poetry
riddled with the pox
Nabokov wrote on index cards,
at a lectern, in his socks
St. John of the Cross did his best stuff
imprisoned in a box
And Johnny Thunders was half alive
when he wrote Chinese Rocks
Well, me, I’m lying here,
with nothing in my ears
Me, I’m lying here, with nothing in my ears
Me, I’m lying here, for what seems years
I’m just lying on my bed
with nothing in my head
Send that stuff on down to me
Send that stuff on down to me
Send that stuff on down to me
Send that stuff on down to me
There she goes, my beautiful world
There she goes, my beautiful world
There she goes, my beautiful world
There she goes again
Karl Marx squeezed his carbuncles
while writing Das Kapital
And Gaugin, he buggered off, man,
and went all tropical
While Philip Larkin stuck it out
in a library in Hull
And Dylan Thomas died drunk in
St. Vincent’s hospital
I will kneel at your feet
I will lie at your door
I will rock you to sleep
I will roll on the floor
And I’ll ask for nothing
Nothing in this life
I’ll ask for nothing
Give me ever-lasting life
I just want to move the world
I just want to move the world
I just want to move the world
I just want to move
There she goes, my beautiful world
There she goes, my beautiful world
There she goes, my beautiful world
There she goes again
So if you got a trumpet, get on your feet,
brother, and blow it
If you’ve got a field, that don’t yield,
well get up and hoe it
I look at you and you look at me and
deep in our hearts know it
That you weren’t much of a muse,
but then I weren’t much of a poet
I will be your slave
I will peel you grapes
Up on your pedestal
With your ivory and apes
With your book of ideas
With your alchemy
O Come on
Send that stuff on down to me
Send that stuff on down to me
Send that stuff on down to me
Send that stuff on down to me
Send that stuff on down to me
Send it all around the world
Cause here she comes, my beautiful girl
There she goes, my beautiful world
There she goes, my beautiful world
There she goes, my beautiful world
There she goes again
Comments
By Ryan H
December 11, 2008 11:49 AM | Link to this
First? sixth?
By The one and only
December 11, 2008 11:49 AM | Link to this
Post below this point if you like men.
By J.L.
December 11, 2008 11:50 AM | Link to this
DOB: Welcome to the real world
By Greg
December 11, 2008 11:52 AM | Link to this
I bet it’s Sheets. And if he can stay healthy, he’s awesome. I’d rather have Burnett. Lowe is not a great pitcher. He’s a 2 at best. Let somebody else pay too much for him. We need a guy who can shut down the other team and miss bats.
By Stovetop
December 11, 2008 11:52 AM | Link to this
What is Wren doing? We don’t need to enter a bidding war with the Yankee’s for a second tier injury prone pitcher. We need to be rebuilding and look at being competitive 2-3 years down the road. We have plenty of young talent in the bigs already and a wave of future talent on the horizon (which may become a ripple if Wren don’t quit tossing it away). The only staff that Burnett will be the Ace of is the Disabled List. Has Wren gotten so use to having a high paid pitcher on the DL that he feels he needs to find another one to replace Hampton? We need to acquire some young arms, not 32 year old mediocre arms. So far we have given up:
Jarrod Saltalamacchia – MLB, Matt Harrison – MLB, Neftali Feliz - #1 Prospect in Rangers Organization (Baseball America), Elvis Andrus - #4 Prospect in Rangers Organization (Baseball America), Brent Lillibridge - #6 Prospect in Braves Organization (Baseball America), Tyler Flowers, Beau Jones, Jonathan Gilmore, and Santos Rodriguez.
And all we have to show for it is: Javier Vazquez – Mediocre, Casey Kotchman – Mediocre, Boone Logan, and Stephen Marek.
Wren is setting this organization up for a train wreck called “let’s relive the 1980’s.” Well, at least my kids will be able to share my child hood memories of an empty ball park and losing records. All we need is Bob Horner.
By aefwb
December 11, 2008 11:54 AM | Link to this
If Wren isn’t able to outspend the Yanks and Red Sox for a pitcher, then he better get two big bats and hope to outscore everybody. This rotation could be serviceable if they scored enough runs. Maybe they should bring in Dunn to play left, Abreu to play right, and Tavares to play center. Then trade Frenchy and whatever else it takes to get Greinke.
By ryan c
December 11, 2008 11:55 AM | Link to this
i hate bidding wars. i hope we lose and go back to trying to better this team via trade. it just doesnt make sense to pay 17 mil/year for a +4 lifetime era pitcher. sign a free agent outfielder (such as abreu) to a mulit-year deal. greinke might be able to be had for escobar and another prospect. then, that frees money up for furcal or another free agent ss.
By Billy Pilgrim
December 11, 2008 11:56 AM | Link to this
Depressing.
By JR
December 11, 2008 11:57 AM | Link to this
There’s no way we should hang our off season on the signing of AJ. First of all I don’t care what anyone say he is not better than Sheets and not much better than some of the other FA pitchers. Sheets has to prove he can be durable again, and AJ has only had one season you can hang your hat on. Heck we might not get Sheets either, but that’s ok. Put the younglings into the fire and let them grown up if we can’t pick up the needed pieces this year. This year’s FA pool is no bumper crop.
The only reason CC got the money he got is because some of the Yankee contracts are coming off the books.
By 18 Wheels of Love
December 11, 2008 11:57 AM | Link to this
Zip City (aka Atlanta)
With all due respect and apologies to The Drive-By Truckers
Your agent was mad as hell
He was mad at you know who
As he tried to exclaim at the front of
the bar and save your deal from that
ditch that it slid into
Don’t know what his angle is
Or why he keeps pimpin’ you this way
Don’t know why you put up with his sh!t
When they don’t pay out in Zip City so
far today
Your agent is a worker and he’s down with
the Anti-Christ
And he makes good money as long as Scott
Boras pays everyone nice and right
Your wife’s got a good a life as any ex-
wife you’ve seen
But she’s puttin’ that sweet stuff on
every GM in town but Beane
Your brother was the first-born that got
drafted in the pros
And it’s a damn sad thing he’s reminded
daily of his his failure by his bros
Baby it’s a twenty-one hour drive from
Zip City to the Northern lights
Keeps your mind clean
Gets you through the night
Baby it’s just a destination, a town for
him to go
Keeps you from having to spend all his
seventeen million bills all alone
Keep your phone on, girl, it ain’t worth
the flight
By the time you call him he’ll be gone
And he’ll be right here next fall if
Bobby is right
You say you’re tired of them taking him
for granted
Callin’ up at the last minute to see what
Scott’s workin’ through
Well it’s only fifteen, girl, and Scott
ain’t got no secretary
And “collusion” is a mighty big word for
a city girl like you
You know that’s just his agent talking
Cause he knows that blood red venom of
the baseball’s Anti-Christ
Ain’t gonna ever see no contract between
them and you
Zip City it’s a good thing that they
built a team around you
Fly up to Chicago then fly back down to
the South
He’s got 95 miles on a two-seam fastball
He gets 17 mil a year
That ain’t got no strings at all
By Mike Honcho
December 11, 2008 11:57 AM | Link to this
I’m reposting from the old blog as my opinions are THAT important.
Why am I studying for law finals? Why didn’t someone give me the memo to become a major league baseball player?
This isn’t meant as a criticism, they can do what they want. But Chipper is running for the first time in his career? And a mile a day at that? Burnett would like to stay in the American league because he doesn’t want to hit or run the bases?
Can we discuss this? Again not a criticism, but if I was Chipper on the cusp of the Hall of Fame (or any professional athlete for that matter) I’d be training harder than a Rocky montage.
For the love of Ron Gant, doesn’t anybody train anymore? I’m serious, I want to see Chipper with some sweet 80s beats training Drago style (sans shots) running around that indoor track in slow-mo, then running through some hunting obstacle course, then off to yoga class for the hammys and feet, and then finally in some high tech batting machine showing his batting speed rising to unheard of levels with some Russian guy saying “He is a machine!”
But then again, I didn’t just win a batting title, or win 18 games and deciding between 60-80 mill….Instead I’ve got Con Law II to comfort me. DOB, find a song lyric for that :(
By Ricardo
December 11, 2008 11:57 AM | Link to this
Wow - that was a depressing read.
By Jerry
December 11, 2008 11:58 AM | Link to this
Rich keep getter ricker. Baseball needs to do something about the discrepancies in salaries of MLB teams
By Blackberry Cobbler
December 11, 2008 11:58 AM | Link to this
I have no sympathy for the Braves.
The other big bat to help out Chipper and Mac was Tex and they let him go.
The pitching is their own fault by continuing to rely too long on old washed up repaired arms.
The Braves undoing is their own fault— ownership and management and coaching.
By RRR
December 11, 2008 11:59 AM | Link to this
Sadly, OB, you’ve posted the sad, Brave new world, truth, AND, if “ownership” doesn’t start caring, and upping payroll to at least competitive standards, the Braves WILL start losing paying customers…and fans. The decline has already started: first losing Turner, then losing the national broadcast outlet that was TBS, then missing the playoffs three straight years. You’re right: I AM angry….
By Train Wreck Bystander
December 11, 2008 11:59 AM | Link to this
The Mets have been busy it seems.
And to top it off, there’s that story about Smoltz staring me in the face.
I need some good news today…
By DAP
December 11, 2008 12:01 PM | Link to this
maybe the braves should make a similar offer to lowe, now, maybe just one less year. 3 years, $45mil, with an easily attainable vesting option for year 4, to make it a $60mil contract. the braves need to get someone. lowe is in many ways just as good as burnett, just older.
this is getting embarrassing. so far, weve been dissed by hampton, peavy has forsaken us, and our overly generous offer to burnett has been beaten. ouch!!
By Bubba
December 11, 2008 12:01 PM | Link to this
Doesnt look like we will get AJ. Would love to have him but dont want to overpay him so musch it hand cuffs the futcher of the balllclub.
By Get Real
December 11, 2008 12:02 PM | Link to this
Come on guys it is simple: Don’t trade Esco or KJ (you have no depth), be strong defensively up the middle—so use Anderson/Blanco/Shaffer in CF whichever does best in spring. If we are trading, we trade Kotchman, Frenchy, and maybe a Boyer/Acosta/Soriano. GO for Fielder at 1st, Dunn in LF, and Magglio in RF. Use the pitchers we got now JJ, JV, Campillio, Morton/Reyes, Parr/Hanson (with Bennett ready) and bullpen of Moylan, Gonzo, and Ohman. Lets not break the bank in a bidding war or trade young for washed up or never will be—-Ankiel, Ludwick, Dye, etc. Pitcher that throw strikes will get batters out. Batters that can hit the ball will get on base. Fundamentals????? Have we forgot?
By glorydays
December 11, 2008 12:02 PM | Link to this
Here’s hoping we pull out of the Burnett sweepstakes and go after a lower risk lower reward pitcher for next year. Given price, talent and health I’d rather have JJ than Burnett. Is there another JJ out there. Add that to Hanson and we have really got something to build off of. Who knows how long Burnett will be healthy.
By jukeandjive
December 11, 2008 12:02 PM | Link to this
While were at it. Can we go back to the “loser” uniforms of the 80’s? Let’s go all in on being the Braves I grew up loving.
By Drummerdad
December 11, 2008 12:03 PM | Link to this
I was surprised that they changed their “focus” to A.J. Burnett after the Peavy mess. With all of the pitching injury woes they have experienced in recent times, he seemed like a gamble. If he signs with the SteinYanks I’ll be rather relieved. Seems like you’d want to go after a guy who knows what it’s like to be your up front guy and who is consistently healthy. In 10 years of play Burnett has been spotty on both. I know they have to take some risks, but that looks like a big one.
By Patrick
December 11, 2008 12:04 PM | Link to this
Good Blog DOB,
I think you nailed the sentiments of almost every Braves fan out there!
By Vonshawn
December 11, 2008 12:04 PM | Link to this
DOB could not agree more. In fact, your comments are pretty much in line with what I wrote in the previous blog. If I were a talented or sought after free agent, there really isn’t all that much about the Atlanta Braves that would excite me into coming to play here.
They were terrible last year, and they have done nothing or very little to improve the team; hell even Smoltz is looking at other opportunities…Smoltz!!!
I like Frank Wren’s openess and honesty, but I’m certainly not all that impressed with his body of work so far. Maybe one day he’ll have the cache of JS, but I think even he would admit that this Winter Meeting has been an utter failure to this point.
By Renegator
December 11, 2008 12:05 PM | Link to this
You have to feel sorry for Chipper. I’m sure he would love to play for a competitive team. Same for Smoltz. You can’t blame these guys if they want to go play elsewhere. If Atlanta is not going to be competitive in 2009 (and it really looks like they aren’t) - they should let these guys go play somewhere where they have a chance to win again… If they don’t add a #1 pitcher - they probably won’t be competitive in 2010 either.
Sad what the Atlanta Braves have become…
By Brent
December 11, 2008 12:06 PM | Link to this
Stovetop, that Tex trade was done entirely by John Scheurholz, so try not to blame Frank Wren for a trade he didn’t make. Wren has made some very nice moves since coming on, including the excellent Renteria trade, a great trade of Villareal, and a few other nice moves. Lets wait a couple of years before we spell doom on the Vasquez trade- because none of those players are “can’t miss” prospects.
By mike p in wc
December 11, 2008 12:07 PM | Link to this
my day is ruined, i hope wren has back up options…first peavy, now burnett….maybe. I DESPISE THE YANKEES!! Go get’em Frank!
By Anders
December 11, 2008 12:07 PM | Link to this
From the previous blog but I thought it was relevant enough to DOB’s blog above that it was worth reposting:
*DOB
Glad to see you are starting to come around to my previously posted theory that “The lure of Bobby Cox and the Braves organization ain’t what it used to be.”
That’s why Wren might have to put up with the kind of crap Towers was pulling and stay in there for the good of the organization. The Braves can’t just leave on principle anymore expecting the next guy on their wish list to step up and sign on.
When your not in the drivers seat anymore you have to overpay in some way. Money, prospects or pride.Even then there’s no guarantees. Why do you think the Mets made some of the deals they made in the 90’s? Not only were they not desired by players, but the players had a higher paying more succesful option right in the same city. The Braves are finding out it’s not easy attracting talent, especially at a bargain, when winning doesn’t appear to be automatic anymore.
The next step in this evolution. Keeping the guys you have when it becomes apparent the team is a year or two away. Do Smoltz and Chipper really want to go through that? Forget what the fans want - what do those guys want? No small question if this whole off season goes south for the Braves, which is not out of the realm of possibility.*
Could Smoltz be planning his escape should the Braves come up well short? Is he sending that message to management?
By rammerjammer
December 11, 2008 12:07 PM | Link to this
If Peavy, AJ, et al, are spurning the Braves because we aren’t competitive, what do you think John Smoltz will do?
If 2009 is it for Smoltz, do you think he wants to go out with meaningless games in September? I don’t.
Yes, he’s a Brave through and through. But you know the guy LIVES for the big game. He’s the best big game pitcher of our lifetime.
IMO, he’ll wear any uniform for the chance to pitch in October just once more. And I’d be rooting for him the whole way.
The man is a warrior and deserves to finish his career on the battlefield…not the golf course.
By chris
December 11, 2008 12:08 PM | Link to this
Do you think the Braves should re-visit attempting to acquire McClouth and Maholm? I would think the Braves should do it even they do get Burnett. That would solve 3 holes for us. A CF, leadoff hitter & a SP(Who is a lefty-which would be a ++).They say the price would be steep but now that they have acquired Vasquez they wouldn’t request Escobar from us.
By brent a.
December 11, 2008 12:09 PM | Link to this
What’s the over/under on the % of Yankees/Red Sox fans in attendance when the Braves host each of those teams at TF this summer?
By Joe M.
December 11, 2008 12:09 PM | Link to this
and he’s had enough of losing with the Padres.
Maybe he should look in the mirror and think of his performance in the 2005 playoffs against the Cardinals and game 163 against the Rockies?
By Don't Trade Franceour, Sheesh
December 11, 2008 12:09 PM | Link to this
Mike Honcho
Training for boxing, and then football (sort of) are very different than baseball.
Baseball is a loooooonnnnngggg season and it is hard to keep the body from breaking down. In boxing you train 1-2 years for one 45 minute fight where all energy can be exerted.
If a baseball player (especially over 30) trained like a boxer, they wouldn’t make it a half year.
Granted and 80s montage with Chipper would be awesome, it just isn’t efficient or practical.
By bill
December 11, 2008 12:10 PM | Link to this
I’m ok with not getting AJ. He could be great but is a HUGE RISK. We shouldn’t mortgage the future for a guy like him.
That being said I am not sure what exactly to think about 2009 at this point.
If Smoltz comes back and is healthy we already have a REAL ace at the top of the staff. Then if Hanson is actually ready to pitch it seems we have a very good rotation, better than most for sure.
I’d consider this to be a believable scenario again assuming for a moment that health isn’t an issue:
Smoltz 17-9 3.10 ERA 190 IP Jair 15-10 3.45 ERA 195 IP Vasquez 15-11 3.58 ERA 210 IP Campillo 14-11 3.78 ERA 195 IP Hanson 12-10 4.11 ERA 165 IP
Who knows, Hanson could be better and again if JS is healthy he’s actually better than those numbers.
With a solid starting 5 the bullpen could rest more and stay in better condition and (back to health) assuming the top 3 guys are healthy our pen will be very good.
If Frenchy is back to his old good (not even great but good) self and we sign just one more decent bat for the OF then the Braves will win around 88 to 95 games in 2009.
I don’t think any of this is a stretch but it just depends on health. Some teams can deal with injuries better than others but most any team would have lost 90 games with the injuries we had to deal with in 2008.
And with the above scenario we haven’t giving away any major piece of our future, which is sort of a good thing.
By Saff
December 11, 2008 12:10 PM | Link to this
DOB I am a huge Braves fan and watch every game of the season. Last year was hard on everyone it sure wasnt Braves baseball. My question for you is why would the Braves want to pay Burnett this much and go four or five years, he has proved he can’t stay healthy on a consistent basis. How about Derek Lowe he is a horse make 33 to 34 starts every year and keeps his ERA in the 3 to 380 range. Derek Lowe pitches just like Tim Hudson lives for the groundball. He is the better option than Burnett he stays healthy and has put up way better numbers in his career he might not be the strikeout pitcher Burnett is but he has him beat in every other category. And Greg Lowe not a great pitcher WHAT?? How about you watch him pitch and go look up some stats buddy hes alot better and more proven than Burnett can dream of. Frank Wren throw that dough Lowes way. GO BRAVES!!!!
By Original Jon
December 11, 2008 12:10 PM | Link to this
Yeah, I dont want to jeperdize the futcher either
By Ron Roberts
December 11, 2008 12:11 PM | Link to this
Frankly, I think it’d be a good thing to lose this bidding war.
There’s NO WAY A.J. Burnett’s worth the money being thrown at him, if history is any indication. Yeah, sure, when he’s healthy he’s golden; but when he’s not (and that’s been FAR TOO OFTEN) he’s just collecting a fat check on pay-day.
We just lost one of those types (the embattled Mike Hampton, God bless him), so why get in a bidding war for another???
Let the Yankees do what they’ve done the past decade; they over-spend on playes with name recognition but little upside. This A.J. Burnett deal has Kevin Brown written all over it. And let’s not forget how many World Series the Yankees have won the last seven years - zero.
Re-sign Smoltz and hope for the best; it probably doesn’t mean we’re a playoff threat in 2009, but if Smoltz is Smoltzian, again, after surgery, then WE picked up the biggest free agent pitcher, whose track record far outshines anything else available this offseason, shy of the younger Jake Peavy. Winner-winner, chicken dinner.
If he’s indeed healthy, and all parties agree he should be in the rotation, I’ll take…
Jurrjens
Smoltz
Vasquez
Campillo
Hanson/Parr/Morton/Reyes
To me, the more important matter at this stage is solidifying our outfield, and quietly, not much has happened in that area of the game throughout the meetings. If we fill that LF hole and decide what direction we go in CF (youth be served or a dependable veteran til Schafer’s ready) and see a rebound from Francoeur, we’re in the thick of it.
Folks, look how the Cardinals battled in 2008 when nobody expected them to, and with pieces/parts from their past glory, in essence.
You have to play the game, still; 162 of ‘em, and penning a better looking roster in December doesn’t win you any trophies. So I say stop worrying about one spot in the rotation and take care of the other gaps we need filled on the roster.
By GermanBravesFan
December 11, 2008 12:11 PM | Link to this
Let the Padres have Hanson for Peavy… offer Sheets a contract for 2 years at $10 million each, sign Smoltz and a left fielder (Ibañez?)….
By crap-wheelie
December 11, 2008 12:12 PM | Link to this
Welcome to the era of the Atlanta Royals.
By Original Jon
December 11, 2008 12:12 PM | Link to this
Get Real I think you need to take some of your own advice and Get Real It has been said numerous times that we are NOT, I REPEAT, NOT TRADING KOTCHMAN.
By GB
December 11, 2008 12:12 PM | Link to this
Play the young guys!!
By GermanBravesFan
December 11, 2008 12:13 PM | Link to this
Here’s a question: did the Yankees make an offer to Lowe? What if both, Lowe and Burnett accept their offers from the Yankees? Oooops… those were two questions.
By rico carty
December 11, 2008 12:13 PM | Link to this
I say let’s pull out of the Burnett bidding war and rediscover what made the Braves great in the 90’s. Young, homegrown talent. Don’t half_ it. Let’s do it the right way, hold on and develop prospects. Sadly, we won’t be competitive during the rest of Cox’s or Smoltz’ time with the Braves, but long term will be better off.
Would like to see Chipper get the 500 home runs and 3,000 hits. His best chance to do that may be in the AL as a DH. He has been the best position player in the history of the Atlanta Braves, and deserves that opportunity should it come to that. So, if Chipper and Smoltz leave via trade, free agency, whatever, root for them and realize what they gave the Braves.
Hopefully Heyward, Hernandez, Teheran etc are as good as advertised, and Braves may be really good again by 2011.
By Wes
December 11, 2008 12:13 PM | Link to this
So DOB, if this is the case, why not trade Chipper to a contender to finish his career, wish Smoltzy well, and go the Marlins/Tampa route or rebuilding?
Another option that should be discussed - contracting MLB down to six teams. Let the Yankees, Mets, Red Sox, Phillies, Dodgers and Cubs spend 1 billion annually on salary so the fans of the other clubs no longer have to go through this.
By Get Real
December 11, 2008 12:15 PM | Link to this
DOB……don’t you think that the “natives are getting restless” and Wren HAS TO DO SOMETHING and may pull the trigger on a ridiculous deal? If we want to trade for a pitcher, just for the sake of a trade, then trade for Grienke with Frenchy….and nothing else…..no Esco in the deal or KJ or pitching prospect. Wren may do something that is absurb. If Wren feels the need to “do something”—then get bats, such as Dunn, Magglio, Abreu (maybe) and trade for Fielder.
Whatcha think DOB????
By N8
December 11, 2008 12:15 PM | Link to this
“If it’s any consolation, Braves fans should at least know that Peavy doesn’t appear at all to be the type of guy who’d want to come in and put the Braves on his back and lead them back to prosperity, like their aces of old.”
THANK YOU for saying that. I’ve been saying it for weeks. Today’s athlete had no heart, and no desire to be the best, and be the guy to put a team “over the hump”. They just wanna come in and ride on the wave of others.
I hope CC starts the year like he did last year, and gets his azz booed in April, then he’ll know what pressure is.
Maybe we’ll luck out and Peavy’s elbow will finally blow up.
As for Burnett? He was never and is NOT worth the money. Let the stanks have him.
Make some trades for lesser parts Wren.
Pick up one more innings eater to go with Vazquez, give Smoltz his damn guaranteed contract (if we’re not gonna win - we at least deserve to watch Smoltz for one more season), and find a frickin’ bat (at this point, I don’t care WHO) for LF.
Explore what somebody is gonna give us for Francoeur, and let the kids play.
They just might surprise you.
By Nocturnal Owl
December 11, 2008 12:15 PM | Link to this
Yankees ruin baseball? Maybe not that extreme but they do ruin the fun. VORP the Yankees forever…
By Raddad
December 11, 2008 12:16 PM | Link to this
Ownership not caring huh? Upping payroll to be competitive huh? Losing paying customers huh?
N.Y. Yankees $209,081,579 $6,744,567
Detroit 138,685,197 4,622,840
New York Mets 138,293,378 4,609,779
Boston 133,440,037 4,765,716
Chicago White Sox 121,152,667 4,487,136
Los Angeles Angels 119,216,333 4,110,908
Chicago Cubs 118,595,833 4,392,438
Los Angeles Dodgers 118,536,038 4,233,430
Seattle 117,993,982 4,538,230
Atlanta 102,424,018 3,414,134
St. Louis 100,624,450 3,049,226
Toronto 98,641,957 3,522,927
Philadelphia 98,269,881 3,388,617
Houston 88,930,415 3,293,719
Milwaukee 81,004,167 2,793,247
Ownership has given Frank Wren 40 plus million to spend. They do care? The Mets were the only team in our division to spend more. The braves payroll is competitive.Paying customers WE GOT SPOILED OVER THE LAST 15 YEARS. Wining almost every year. Adding payroll doesn’t mean championship. The braves have not drafted and developed good talent. Throw in some trades hear and there and BOOM you have the 2009 Atlanta Braves.
By DAP
December 11, 2008 12:17 PM | Link to this
stevetop Brent Lillibridge - #6 Prospect in Braves Organization (Baseball America)
really? that cant be right. the only guys on that list that i agree with you on is andrus and feliz. it stinks that two of thier highest ranking prospects came from our system! even those guys, though, are a ways away.
harrison would even be nice to have, at this point, although to me, hes about on the same level as jojo reyes.
its starting to look like this year, morton, jojo, hanson, and maybe even marek will get a chance to impress us. id really like to see one of jojo and morton at least become dependable, and im very anxious for hanson to make us happy we didnt trade him.
By Nate
December 11, 2008 12:18 PM | Link to this
I think some running and some yoga / stretching exercises would be a given for Chipper. Given all the strained / pulled muscles this guy has had he ought to be doing yoga for a couple hours everyday during the offseason.
By Salty
December 11, 2008 12:18 PM | Link to this
When the FA market is dominated by a couple of disproportionately deep-pocketed teams, and GM’s of other clubs treat their ‘collateral’ as FA’s in waiting, patience is the best virtue. The Yankees could easily have the most high-priced disabled list in pro sports history, or…after years of throwing money, it pays off in a WS appearance. That strategy hasn’t paid dividends for quite a few years, though.
By Voice of Reason
December 11, 2008 12:19 PM | Link to this
From Rosenthal:
11:51 a.m. — Cameron trade hits snag
The Mike Cameron trade is not done and may not get done.
The Yankees will need to have a change of heart for it to happen, one source familiar with the discussion said.
The Brewers are asking for a second player in addition to Melky Cabrera. The Yankees want the Brewers to pay a portion of Cameron’s $10 million salary.
Milwaukee is not inclined to fulfill that request at a time when the Yankees are on the verge of paying over $200 million for pitchers CC Sabathia and A.J. Burnett.
That is almost comical. Can you imagine the look on Doug Melvin’s face when Cashman asked him to pay a portion of Cameron’s salary? That must have been priceless.
By N8
December 11, 2008 12:20 PM | Link to this
rammerjammer
“If Peavy, AJ, et al, are spurning the Braves because we aren’t competitive, what do you think John Smoltz will do?…. If 2009 is it for Smoltz, do you think he wants to go out with meaningless games in September? I don’t…. Yes, he’s a Brave through and through. But you know the guy LIVES for the big game. He’s the best big game pitcher of our lifetime.”
That’s the difference between Smoltz and a whiner like Peavy. Smoltz would RELISH taking the Braves on his back and pitching through pain to get THEM back to the pos-season.
That doesn’t mean if Wren doesn’t offer him a fair contract, he won’t bail for the money. But if the money is equal, he will NOT leave this team, no matter how dire the season looks.
The thing is, is that Smoltz has enough confidence in HIS ability that he knows just adding HIM to the Braves for 6 months, gives them as good of a chance as anybody to get to October.
I agree with him.
By Joe M.
December 11, 2008 12:21 PM | Link to this
*Would like to see Chipper get the 500 home runs and 3,000 hits. His best chance to do that may be in the AL as a DH. *
F that, prospect-hugger.
By N8
December 11, 2008 12:22 PM | Link to this
GermanBravesFan
“Let the Padres have Hanson for Peavy…”
NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO!
Have I made myself clear?
I’ll go with NO!
Besides, Peavy doesn’t wanna be a Brave. F him.
By Salty
December 11, 2008 12:23 PM | Link to this
I say let’s pull out of the Burnett bidding war and rediscover what made the Braves great in the 90’s. Young, homegrown talent.
I agree, but don’t forget to include those vitally strategic trades with Detroit! They’ve been very good to Atlanta! LOL!
By Get Real
December 11, 2008 12:23 PM | Link to this
Original John——or OJ Kotchman will never hit more than 20 homers! But what does it matter….the Braves are gonna be the least of your worries for what next 9-16 yrs. Maybe then they will trade for a #1 pitcher and a bat that can produce more homeruns than the entire season output of the outfield in a given year!
By Chuck James is solid until the 6th!! (Formerly Steve-O)
December 11, 2008 12:23 PM | Link to this
Screw AJ and his 5 year contract which he’ll be healthy for maybe 2.5 years…The Yankees are so laughable and pathetic..Anybody can be Brian Cashman…Yeh what a hard job…There is a list of free agents…You have 1 billion dollars to spend…you see somebody offer 4/60 …you counter with a 5/85 and then blow other teams out of the water if they dare compete with you…Yeh my 11 year old niece can do that…
I say ATL should spurn those “We think we can buy a championship every year Yankees” and call Andy Petitte and offer him 2/25 right now while they are only talking about being in on: Lowe, Burnett, Sheets…They are disrespecting Andy who by listening to WFAN the last few years gets angry when he gets treated like this. Andy is well aware right now that he is option #4 and priority #8 on the Yankees to do list.. 2/25 for Andy can bring him back to the NL for 2 years and he would pitch very, very good like he did in Houston and Andy is a playoff pitcher..What is AJ?? He doesn’t even make it to the end of the year..What is Peavy in the playoffs?? A choker…he is no leader, he just wants to blend in a rotation - so screw him!
An “ace” is a guy who carries a team and is a proven producer in the playoffs (Smoltz, Glavine, Maddux, Petitte, Schilling, Beckett, Pedro, Unit, Cone, Oswalt) to name a few…
Again, let the Yankees have AJ and watch his 7 DL stints he’ll be on…I also hope CC turns into Colon and gets up to 330 and breaks down. That Pavano thing didn’t prove anything to the Yankees cause 45 million to the Yankees is like 300 million to any other team…I’ll take Andy who will feel wanted and pitch like it too..Sure he had a slightly off year last year, but put him back in the NL and he will rebound, because he has the heart and is resilient..qualities of an “ace” whatever that title means..To me it’s a guy who shows up for big games, carries the team through the season and produces in the playoffs and has extreme confidence..Andy, yes…AJ and Peavy?? eh…
By Algonquin J. Calhoun
December 11, 2008 12:23 PM | Link to this
Is this American Idle?
By This isn't good
December 11, 2008 12:24 PM | Link to this
Hey Dave, enjoy the blog.
This doesnt look good at all. In august, I sort of assumed without hudson 2010 would be the year. I remained happy to see them make a run at peavy, but in the end…well we dont have him. Maybe we should look at resigning smoltz, gambling on sheets and extending chipper with our excessive funds. Power hitting left fielder…Possibility of signing griffey to platoon with matty diaz? I know people knock on him but he has impressive numbers against lefties, and if you look at our division of leftie pitchers, the list is long… I think that would me more or less a stopgap essembly of a team with giving up anymore players
By ernesto
December 11, 2008 12:24 PM | Link to this
I agree with RR on the possible upside of losing the bidding wars on these guys.
If it was so easy to buy a championship, the Yankees would have more than none to show since they stratosphered their payroll.
Boston has done a good job walking the line btwn spending and growing their own talent.
But if you look at the last few years, the teams that spent the most haven’t always been there at the end.
And Peavey wanting to “go play for a winner” reminds me of Giambi leaving the A’s for the Yanks for the same reason.
How’d that work out for you Jason?
By Drummerdad
December 11, 2008 12:26 PM | Link to this
I dare say that Maddux came to the Braves for less money than the Yanks because there was something attractive about the Braves. They had some “pop” and were on the upswing. They’re clearly not back to that point yet and it seems that some of these guys are avoiding them because of it. I guess they’re being used as a bargaining chip.
By Robert (Chipper Is The Best)
December 11, 2008 12:26 PM | Link to this
I think it may be time to go a different direction. Don’t spend the money on subpar players. Let the kids like Hanson play and look to 2010. Quite honestly it appears to Burnett will be out of reach and I don’t think Sheets is worth the risk. Nobody of value can be obtained through trade without giving up the farm.
The other option is get all offense and try to outslug teams which we have seen really doesn’t work. Look to move Frenchy and attempt to sign two of Abreu, Burrell, Ibanez, and Dunn. Its apparent the pitching is not available.
By My Entire Team Sucks
December 11, 2008 12:27 PM | Link to this
according to espn first take the yankees offer to burnett is 5/80
By nique
December 11, 2008 12:27 PM | Link to this
DOB, thanks for the enlightening response on the earlier post. Nothing that you’ve written has convinced me that this offseason isn’t a failure so far. Trade a stud prospect for an innings eater to play on a bad team, and don’t get a top of the rotation guy or a bat. I get that Flowers might not have played for us, but we certainly could have traded him for something better (now or later on). The moves don’t make sense when put together. Choose to compete (well) now or in the future, and take actions to further the plan.
By Steve from OH
December 11, 2008 12:27 PM | Link to this
Jim Callis said Lillibridge would be the #6 guy in the White Sox top 10. They must have a pretty weak system, because he wouldn’t have cracked our top 10, in all probability. He put Flowers at #4; he would have probably been #6-7 in our system.
Our top 5 will probably be Heyward, Hanson, Freeman, Schafer, Hernandez.
By Patrick
December 11, 2008 12:29 PM | Link to this
Good for Doug Melvin,
I hope they don’t get him. What a ridiculous request…
By 18 Wheels of Love
December 11, 2008 12:30 PM | Link to this
Read About it - MIdnight Oil
The rich get richer, the poor get the picture The bombs never hit you when youre down so low Some got pollution, some revolution There must be some solution but I just dont know The bosses want decisions, the workers need ambitions There wont be no collisions when they move so slow Nothing ever happens, nothing really matters No one ever tells me so what am I to know
You wouldnt read about it, read about it Just another incredible scene, theres no doubt about it
Hammer and the sickle, the news is at a trickle The commissars are fickle but the stockpile grows Bombers keep acoming, engines softly humming The stars and stripes are running for their own big show Another little flare up, storm brewed in a tea cup Imagine any mix up and the lot would go Nothing ever happens…
You wouldnt read about it, read about it One unjust ridiculous steal, aint no doubt about it You wouldnt read about it, read about it Just another particular deal, theres no doubt about it
By Seymour1948
December 11, 2008 12:30 PM | Link to this
For those interested, you can see live updates on the Rule 5 draft at this website. Rangers pick up another catcher. They love them some catchers over in Texas.
By Seymour1948
December 11, 2008 12:31 PM | Link to this
Mets pick up Carl Lodathall, OF from the Braves.
By Lee in S GA
December 11, 2008 12:32 PM | Link to this
DOB - any rumors about the Braves maybe being interested in Melky Carera. The Yankees have soured on him some. I know he is not a power hitter but it seems like his name came up a few years ago, the year before A.J. became a free agent. The year that A.J. SHOULD have been traded if everyone knew what they do now.
By Mike Honcho
December 11, 2008 12:33 PM | Link to this
Don’t Trade Franceour, Sheesh
Yeah, I wasn’t saying literally train like a boxer, just train like you are in a Rocky montage.
Talking about bodies breaking down, it raises the question, what is the most appropriate way to train for a baseball player? Why don’t we see similar breakdowns in the NBA? I would argue an NBA season is more strenuous and longer than a baseball season. If you don’t believe that, you can admit it is at least similarly tough on the body.
Why don’t we see the same sort of breakdown? I’m not sure, but I might say it is due to a lack of emphasis on cardiovascular fitness, strecthing, and plyometrics. Maybe too much emphasis on weight lifting.
That’s just my “expert” opinion.
By Mark C.
December 11, 2008 12:33 PM | Link to this
This blog gets more bipolar by the day.
By My Entire Team Sucks
December 11, 2008 12:35 PM | Link to this
yea and heyward hanson and freeman are all in the top 50 - heyward at #3 prospect in all of baseball.
By Chuck James is solid until the 6th!! (Formerly Steve-O)
December 11, 2008 12:35 PM | Link to this
Amen, N8
Like I said yesterday the Phreakin’ Sillies won the WORLD SERIES!!!! (I believe that is every teams goal, isn’t it??) With Cole Hamels, Joe Blanton, Jamie Moyer, Brett Myers and Adam Eaton STARTING GAMES ALL YEAR!!!! AKA one very solid pitcher!
Going with my Petitte theory, you have: Smoltz, Petitte, Jurrjens, Vazquez, Hanson/Campillo/Glavine
I like the latter…I know DOB probably thinks there is no chance Andy would go to ATL but Andy has proven he is the type of dude if you show him love and that you really love and want him he buys into that. So while the Yankees are in 7 rumors for other pitchers and Andy is feeling insulted (probably has for about 2 weeks now) snatch him up for 2/25, don’t risk throwing away the future in AJ being injured on and off and his unproven abilities in October games. Take the short and sure bet in Andy who is a post-season master like our Lord and Savior John Smoltz.
By eric
December 11, 2008 12:36 PM | Link to this
It seems like we’re going to miss AJ, Peavy, and now we might lose Smoltz as well. I’m just not sure where we are going to get the starting pitchers from…
By Anders
December 11, 2008 12:38 PM | Link to this
N8
That’s the difference between Smoltz and a whiner like Peavy. Smoltz would RELISH taking the Braves on his back and pitching through pain to get THEM back to the pos-season.
I have the utmost respect for Smoltz. I’ve said often he’s one of three guys I would want pitching a game 7 for my team. But the Smoltz you’re alluding to above is gone. He has to know he’s not capable of that anymore. I’m guessing he was hoping to ride shot gun for Peavy while bringing some of the young pitchers along. No way you’re gonna get 35 starts from him if he’s bulldogging through games like he does. Again, no disrespect to the guy but at his age and with his health issues it’s not fair to expect that.
It’s also not fair to think he wants to go through a 85 to 90 loss season either. Therein lies the rub.
By JimBo
December 11, 2008 12:39 PM | Link to this
If the Braves lose out on A.J. Burnett, they won’t be turning their attention to Derek Lowe. A source familiar with their thinking says they have “zero” interest in Lowe. The Braves do have interest in “a couple” of other free-agent starters, the source said. And one is known to be left-hander Randy Wolf. They also would turn back to the trade market if their free-agent options don’t look promising.
How does this satisfy our “top of line starting pitcher”?
We are going from a flame throwing hurler (when healthy ace type) to Randy Wolf who has been reliable over the years but nothing like the stuff of Randy Wolf or even Derek Lowe.
By ernesto
December 11, 2008 12:40 PM | Link to this
So the Mets dealt, among others, Chavez and Joe Smith for J.J Putz?
Hmmmmm.
Wonder how the Mut faithful feel about that one?
Putz is a hard thrower, they’ve got a pretty good one two punch now, you’ve got to get to them in the first 7.
Must have hurt to give up Chavez though, he seemed like a pretty useful guy.
By N8
December 11, 2008 12:40 PM | Link to this
Steve-0
I totally agree with you (if Wren insists on competing in 2009).
Go after Randy Johnson, Pettite, Sheets.
Go after ALL of the injury risk guys at the end of their careers (include Smoltz and Glavine in their), give them BIG (in dollars) and short (in years), contracts.
We sign 4 of those guys, 2 of them are bound to be healthy at one time, right?
Then if all of them are healthy, we’ve got the monster “all geritol” rotation. LOL!
JJJ can do his thing (in the 3-hole of the rotation), and Hanson can be brought along slowly.
Lets not forget, that one of the biggest pieces of the Rays “puzzle” last off-season, was Matt Garza. They got him from the Twins for Young (who the Twins are now trying to move). Don’t you think that if the Twins thought Garza was worth a damn, they would have hung on to him in the same season they let Johan walk?
Hell, maybe I’ll be proved wrong, and Vazquez will turn into Cy Young. LOL! Doubt it, but sometimes it’s the minor moves that make the difference.
Then again, I’ve said all along, I’m OK with stinking this year, as long as we had all of our “blue chips” in our pocket for 2009. Looks as though, that might very well be the case.
By Chuck James is solid until the 6th!! (Formerly Steve-O)
December 11, 2008 12:41 PM | Link to this
And the best part about getting Andy, he will stay healthy and put up numbers for 2 years then be off the books AND ATL will be sticking it to the Yankees at the same time…
By brian
December 11, 2008 12:41 PM | Link to this
the Braves need to go ahead and sign Smoltz now. Not simply to get him off the headlines as possible going somewhere else, not simply to make sure our hall of fame player does not end his career somewhere else, not simply to add to our rotation, but to add an advocate for the Braves. Smoltz will add to our rotation and can help right the ship of perception. We need Smoltz to help recruit the AJ Burnett’s and the Jake Peavy’s to the Braves.
If Smoltz’s arm is doing as well as advertised he could promote a rotation of Burnett/Peavy, Smoltz, Jurrjens, Vazquez, and Hanson. That is a great rotation and with the addition of Hudson next year even if Smoltz retires this will be a formidable rotation for years to come. The “ace” can lead a rotation of a Hall of Famer (2 if Glavine makes it back), a top young pitcher in Jurrjens, a solid Vazquez, and the top young pitcher in baseball.
That is how we need to sell the “ace” position and it all starts with signing Smoltz. AJ or Peavy should love to be able to pitch with and learn from Smoltz and Smoltz would be a great teacher and role model for Hanson.
Sign Smoltz now please. Get the offer out there and get it done with.
By Voice of Reason
December 11, 2008 12:42 PM | Link to this
By Mark C. December 11, 2008 12:33 PM | Link to this This blog gets more bipolar by the day.
Yeah… it’s the Bi-Polar Express! :-)
By DAP
December 11, 2008 12:43 PM | Link to this
bill Smoltz 17-9 3.10 ERA 190 IP Jair 15-10 3.45 ERA 195 IP Vasquez 15-11 3.58 ERA 210 IP Campillo 14-11 3.78 ERA 195 IP Hanson 12-10 4.11 ERA 165 IP
i think your prety close on your projections on jurjens and vazquez, except ill bet vazquez ERA will be closer to 4.00. i dont know about hanson, but i bet campillo will be closer to a 11-11 record or something like that. and smoltz winning 17? maybe if we get a great hitting left fielder.
By MIKE
December 11, 2008 12:45 PM | Link to this
Screw Peavy, let him go to the Cubs. He can help break their hearts again. AJ is not worth the money we already offered, nevermind more. Unfortunately, I think the best thing to do might be to do nothing. Save the money and focus on 2010.
By Lew
December 11, 2008 12:47 PM | Link to this
nique-The off season will be a failure if we go to Spring Training and STILL have all the same holes, but it’s not yet. For crying out loud, there’s still 2 months before ST and hardly any moves have been made by any team. Just because you and many others here have the patience of a two year old says much more about y’all’s attention spans than it does the job Wren is doing. Have you taken your Ritilin yet today?
By Murphy
December 11, 2008 12:48 PM | Link to this
Sad and depressing blog…but true!
By Lee in S GA
December 11, 2008 12:48 PM | Link to this
spelling - sorry I meant Cabrera.
By Efrim
December 11, 2008 12:49 PM | Link to this
DOB
If the Braves end up missing out on Lowe, Burnett, Sheets, Peavy, etc. Would they look into free agent starters like Jon Garland, Randy Wolf or Oliver Perez? It seems to me that something like that wouldn’t make any sense, but they do still need some warm bodies for the rotation. Or are they planning on going with Vasquez, Jurrjens, Morton, Reyes, and Campillo?
By Lew
December 11, 2008 12:49 PM | Link to this
Jimbo-And which two top line starters would you attempt to acquire if you were the GM? I’m sure we’d all like to know what paragons that Wren has refused to consider there might be available.
By TNScott
December 11, 2008 12:51 PM | Link to this
DOBWell, it’s just like I said a couple months back. As long as you have a corporation running this or almost any franchise in general, the success of your franchise will ultimately rest with the bottom line of the corporate entity running the said franchise. I was never really impressed with the statements of the so-called raising of the payroll. They looked more like cost of living adjustments to me as far as the payroll is concerned. Liberty’s ownership will ultimately be not much different from Time-Warner’s in my opinion. Maybe a little more money but that’s about it. We could have better ownership if baseball had nixed this ownership and allowed Arthur Blank to buy the team. But then again baseball doesn’t put the best interest of the fans first in business decisions. Until we get an “OWNER” that will spend the money necessary to make champions again, we will continue to be a second-tier franchise in the minds of any potential free agent we seek to acquire.
By Bruce's Pearl
December 11, 2008 12:53 PM | Link to this
with all due respect, Chuck James is solid until the 6th!!,John Smoltz is not our Lord and Savior.He is a Hall of Fame quality pitcher,and appears to be a fine gentleman.But that is all.
By LT-A blogger
December 11, 2008 12:54 PM | Link to this
Short term, no Burnett, no good. Long term- good. N8 is right. In fact, I think AJ has less heart than most. In fact, I think he’s an overgrown soft, pansy [may be a little Yankitis;)].
As Apollo said in Rocky II, “only way to get it back is to go back to beginning!” or something like that. Maybe BC can get the the team to run a few sprints on the beach or chase a few roosters.
Start the youth next year- build from there.
By LT-A blogger
December 11, 2008 12:56 PM | Link to this
Just realized that quote shoulda been Rocky III- didn’t mean any blasphamy.
By MiamiBrave
December 11, 2008 12:56 PM | Link to this
I guess it might just be better to wait til 2010, cuz I really don’t think AJ is worth over 80 mil
and Peavy doesn’t want to come here so, I wouldn’t waste money on any others…
We’ll have to wait to retool once again it seems
By Eric from MO
December 11, 2008 12:57 PM | Link to this
I have stated from the beginning of the offseason I didnt want Dempster, Burnett, or Lowe. I may get my wish. I just hope the Braves dont waste money just to spend money. Which I think any of those three would be. I say let the kids play, keep the payroll low, and in 2 or 3 years when we know which kids not going to pan out. Then we spend money like crazy and get the players we need. Everyone points out that we let the kids play in the late 80’s and it turned out great but it also helped when we brought guys in like Terry Pendleton. We knew what positions we needed. The only way I say go sign a FA pitcher is get a guy like Vazquez or maybe Lowe and sign him for a couple of years just so we dont blow out our young arms but would Lowe turn down Boston for Atlanta. NO!!! So I dont think Lowe would be possible for two or three years.
Another idea I would like to throw out, would Chipper waive his no-trade clause. It is impossible to build a championship team around a star who only plays 120-130 games a year. The Braves are not going to win for another couple of years and right now Chipper’s trade value is as high as it will get. I think we would have to trade him to the A.L but this would help Chipper too. He could be on a contender and play longer. I would love to keep him but there is no way he can stay healthy.
By DannyFish
December 11, 2008 12:59 PM | Link to this
I knew that this was so, but hearing it from DOB is tough. An unfortunately difficult road lies ahead for us. Now maybe we can see what the rest of our division felt for all those years. But hey if it was easy then it wouldn’t be entertaining.
One thing that I continue to find amusing is a lot of the scenarios laid out by some people on this blog. One said we give up Kotchman and Frenchy and pick up Fielder and Magglio. Nice.
If there is one thing that I won’t worry about it would be that our team (whoever we have when the season begins) will play with heart and passion. Bobby Cox will accept nothing less. Everyone is upset that the NYY take all these players but that’s what they’ve always done and they were in the same place as us in October this year.
So Peavy doesn’t want to come here…so be it. Burnett may decide he wants to play behind a horse like CC than have to put the Braves on his back next year…who cares.
Wren will do his best to put a competitive team on the field next year and whoever that is we will root for. If they gave championships away no one would want one.
By Lee in S GA
December 11, 2008 12:59 PM | Link to this
I think we need to go after Oliver Perez, resign Smoltz and acquire someone average for LF (maybe even Juan Rivera), then wait and see what happens in spring traiing and go from there. No ace but you do have some quality pitchers and maybe Smoltz can contribute if resigned. Rivera is not aweful.
By N8
December 11, 2008 1:00 PM | Link to this
Anders
You’re probably more right than I want to admit (or believe). But bottom line is that if Smoltz thinks he can pitch, he’ll go all out. And there isn’t any denying that if healthy (even if he’s 75-80 percent of what he used to be), he’d be the Ace by association to the rest of the staff.
It’s hard to say it in December, with him never pitching above AA ball, but the success of this season, just might come down to how dominating Hanson can be in the Big Leagues. If he has a smooth transition and takes the league by storm (similar to what Fransisco Liriano did a couple of years ago), that just might be enough to combine with JJJ and Vazquez.
One more innings eater, and one HUGE bat, and they can “compete” every night, IMO. Then cross their fingers on all the “if” factors (Smoltz, Glavine, Hanson, Francoeur, Vazquez, Schafer, etc…)
Just might not be the same definition of competing that Wren had in mind.
By ncscoots
December 11, 2008 1:00 PM | Link to this
Geez. I thought the blog whining during the season was bad, but this winter of discontent seems even worse. The winter meetings have barely ended, and Wren’s offseason is already labeled a failure (!). I guess he’ll learn not to execute a Jurrjens fleece job so early in an offseason, and thus be expected to thereafter have all his ducks in a row by Christmas every year.
Who’s got the clock on PCR? Do we still have more than 100 days? Holy Cornelia. You think Wren will just wail and gnash for the next 3 months? Or might he actually have some plan other than to just lay down and bleed?
“Forget 2009”, “play the kids”, blah blah blah. Bloggers denied the every wish of their offseason dream are ready to pack it, sack it, and trash it…just pick up the ball and go home, I guess.
n8’s cadre of like-minded moaners has grown, I suppose. Everything’s wrong and nothin’ ain’t right, to that crowd. Mercy. Man can’t even get a pleasant offseason, anymore, LOL. How bad is that?
By ClayB25
December 11, 2008 1:01 PM | Link to this
Sheets 2 yr 25 million with a club option for third year, and andy pettitte 2 22-24 million just float it out there…Roger Clemens is not in houston anymore.
By Vol
December 11, 2008 1:01 PM | Link to this
I find myself hoping that the Braves drop the AJ offer (now that it looks like the market is moving well over the $15MM mark per year) and find a shorter term fix. Maybe it’s a gamble on Sheets, but at least you don’t tie up money. Are we really going to the playoffs with AJ as our “ace”? Just feels like it might take away flexibility in future years when possibly contracts come down a little because of the economy. Not guarantee they will, but they might.
Maybe I’m negative because we haven’t had a good offseason, but the free agent pool just isn’t that strong. Feels like the money is burning a hole in Wren’s pocket. Then again, another 90 loss season and people in Wren’s position get fired.
By Chuck James is solid until the 6th!! (Formerly Steve-O)
December 11, 2008 1:02 PM | Link to this
N8
Nooo Randy Johnson man!!! Petitte is not injury prone but could be had at 2/25 and I would like a Sheets signing for 2/30 with a 3rd yr performance based option that can go 3/45…
For that power bat, I wish Maggs Ordonez would get to ATL somehow, some way…..
By Thundersticks
December 11, 2008 1:03 PM | Link to this
BREAKING NEWS
Peavy deal to Cubs dead
LAS VEGAS — San Diego general manager Kevin Towers just told reporters that a proposed deal to send pitcher Jake Peavy to the Chicago Cubs was dead.
“It doesn’t look like anything is going to happen with the Cubs,” Towers said.
Towers indicated that Cubs GM Jim Hendry pulled out of the deal.
“He said he’s got other things going on. I respect his position,” Towers said.
Towers will meet with team CEO Sandy Alderson on Monday and speak with Peavy’s agent, Barry Axelrod, in the coming days to see where they go next.
Towers said one option is pulling Peavy off the trading block and going into the 2009 season with him at the front of the starting rotation.
By DAP
December 11, 2008 1:04 PM | Link to this
casey kotchman really hit a rut when he got to atlanta, and its a shame, but dont forget, guys, at the time of the trade, kotchman was probably tied with vlad as the most productive hitter on the angels team. he was doing a good job knocking guys in.
kotchman has the potential to be a very solid run producer. hes a guy you want at the plate with RISP and 2 out. he wont hit for alot of power, but he will hit.
By Original Jon
December 11, 2008 1:05 PM | Link to this
Peavy Deal Dead
By MiamiBrave
December 11, 2008 1:05 PM | Link to this
DOB
Let me ask you a question,
Injury history aside, who is more of an Ace in your opinion Sheets or Burnett?
I think Sheets/Burnett might be a wash or I might give the edge to Sheets…like I said injuries aside.
I would hope that they would make a run at Ben if Burnett falls through…
By Chuck James is solid until the 6th!! (Formerly Steve-O)
December 11, 2008 1:06 PM | Link to this
I knew somebody would take my wording of The Bearded Icon all serious and mark it offensive….So, Bruce’s Pearl, Priests, Deacons, Altar Boys I am not saying John Smoltz is Jesus Christ I was just making the point that he is every Atlanta Braves fan beloved idol, so how about ya relax…You know what I meant….
By Chanticleer
December 11, 2008 1:07 PM | Link to this
Fire Frank Wren! He is turning this team into a piece of dog s**t. Trade Escobar for Peavy, sign Furcal and lets play ball.
By car3boogie
December 11, 2008 1:07 PM | Link to this
DOB Thanks for a good dose of REALITY, I think you are dead on as usual
By Chicken Little
December 11, 2008 1:07 PM | Link to this
The sky MIGHT be falling!!!
The sky MIGHT be falling!!!
The sky MIGHT be falling!!!
AJ MIGHT sign with the Yankees!
Peavy MIGHT be traded to the Cubs!
Smotlz MIGHT sign with the Red Sox, Tigers, or Mets!
Glavine MIGHT not pitch in ‘09!
Hampton MIGHT win the Cy Young with Houston!
BC MIGHT retire after next season!
FW MIGHT trade Hanson, Heyward AND Freeman to the Cubs for Mark D and Jason M before finding the tallest building in Vegas and jump, laughing at fair-weather fans, to his death!
The sky MIGHT be falling!!!
The sky MIGHT be falling!!!
The sky MIGHT be falling!!!
By Don't Trade Franceour, Sheesh
December 11, 2008 1:07 PM | Link to this
Mike Honcho
You are absolutely correct. But even the NBA plays only half of the games that MLB players do.
MLB players are most like other career professionals who go to work every day. They just get to sleep in and work a little later and have to travel extensively.
The NBA clearly has superior athletes because baseball doesn’t require the athletic ability that basketball does.
Baseball players (on average) are more like golfers…not much constant movement, just small bursts of energy and precision are needed.
By rico carty
December 11, 2008 1:08 PM | Link to this
You are right, Joe M. Don’t develop the prospects and maybe get more of the same mediocrity. Maybe we can trade more prospects for worn out middle of rotation pitchers. Just remember…Hank and Chipper were prospects once too.
Good thing Wren is GM and you are not. Enjoy the past.
By N8
December 11, 2008 1:08 PM | Link to this
Braves should rock the boat (like I’m gonna do to the blog with this comment)…
Go for the all-roids team.
Sign Bonds, Clemens, Pettitte, Sosa, Palmeiro, Giambi. ANYBODY rumored with steroids. Sign em’ all!
It would be like giving a BIG middle finger to Bud Selig and the other owners, saying: “If you guys are all gonna allow MLB to operate without a salary cap, and the Yankees to spend DOUBLE what anybody else spends, then we’re gonna bring the all “felony” team on a Redneck Circus Tour of MLB cities.
Hell, while were at it, sign John Rocker on to be the MC and traveling road secretary of the team, handling PR and the media. He could be Wren’s “personal contact” to Selig.
Who knows? They just might win some games inbetween all the injuries (and afternoon naps that the geezers would need).
By Mark
December 11, 2008 1:08 PM | Link to this
Well its being reported on MLBTR that the Peavy deal is dead….so why not revisit and come to a little bit better situation than San Diego?
By Lew
December 11, 2008 1:08 PM | Link to this
LT-A blogger-Maybe if we had cow milking contests between innings again? Would that qualify as training? Maybe if we had our own sausage races and had players in the costumes? But chasing roosters? Who knows? I guess it could work. Might try sugar free gum instead of those damn seeds, too.
By Patrick
December 11, 2008 1:08 PM | Link to this
Per mlbtraderumors.com and mlb.com the Peavy to Cubs Trade is Dead!!!
Hahahaha!!! FU Towers FU Peavy
By Bluestreak
December 11, 2008 1:08 PM | Link to this
THIS JUST IN>>>
12:01pm: Kevin Towers told reporters the proposed Peavy deal with the Cubs is dead. The Cubs pulled out. Mike DiGiovanna heard earlier that the Angels remain interested.
LONG LIVE HENDRY!!!
Towers is left holding the bag, er…Peavy.
By Calvin
December 11, 2008 1:09 PM | Link to this
I laughed out loud. The Peavy to Cubs deal is dead. Irony!
By Billy Pilgrim
December 11, 2008 1:09 PM | Link to this
MLBTR says the Peavy/Cubs deal is dead according to Towers. Couldn’t have happened to a more deserving guy.
By Original Jon
December 11, 2008 1:09 PM | Link to this
Looks like Towers didnt play his cards right, now there is no one left sitting at the table to play with.
By Jim
December 11, 2008 1:09 PM | Link to this
Braves passed on Rule 5 draft. Nothing there that they wanted to keep for a year. Makes sense, although you wondered whether they might have identified a gem that no one else wanted/selected.
By raindawg722
December 11, 2008 1:09 PM | Link to this
DOB, I wouldn’t blame Peavy for favoring the Cubs over the Braves. However, that shouldn’t hold up a Braves-Padres trade if he still has the Braves on a list of teams that he’d accept a trade to, as has been previously rumored. Has Peavy now indicated that he would not accept a trade to the Braves?
By Mark
December 11, 2008 1:10 PM | Link to this
{http://hotstove.mlblogs.com/archives/2008/12/peavydealtocubsdead.html}
Looks like the Cubs pulled out of Peavy talks …
By Vol
December 11, 2008 1:10 PM | Link to this
I took a look at Perez’s stats for the first time ever and is he that much worse than AJ, at least over the last two years. He had a ton of K’s and doesn’t give up all that many hits. The walks are a problem, but AJ isn’t exactly known for his control. What’s Perez likely to get in this market? Probably more than I thought, but the Yanks are probably done after they get AJ. Who is left to overbid?
Maybe in the end if the Yanks aren’t bidding against us (and they overpaid for CC and AJ), we get Perez and Sheets for the price of AJ. I could live with that.
By Murphy
December 11, 2008 1:10 PM | Link to this
I seriously do NOT get the obsession with the inconsistency that is Oliver Perez!
By Efrim
December 11, 2008 1:10 PM | Link to this
I still don’t want Peavy. Especially after hearing about the “Go Cubs Go” thing.
By N8
December 11, 2008 1:11 PM | Link to this
Steve-0
I hear ya on Randy Johnson. In fact I’m right there with you on Pettitte. Probably the best guy to be had left on the market (I still like Lowe, but aparently the Braves don’t like him).
As for Sheets? How can you know Randy Johnson for being “injury prone” and then advocate signing Sheets?
The reason I like Pettitte, is his experience, he stays healthy (all those B-12 shots), and he’s left-handed. We need that, and I’ll take two of them in the rotation if Glavine returns (and I think he will).
By MiamiBrave
December 11, 2008 1:12 PM | Link to this
HAHA HOPING IT IS TRUE
Peavy to Cubs dead!
By JIMMY L
December 11, 2008 1:12 PM | Link to this
THE CUBS HAVE PULLED OUT OF THE TRADE FOR PEE-BRAIN
By Raddad
December 11, 2008 1:14 PM | Link to this
I guess Jake Peavy was singing to soon huh? Go Cubs Go Cubs I guess now its hello San Diego.
JAKE COME TO YOUR SENSES AND WELCOME THE DEAL TO THE ATL…..
By Thundersticks
December 11, 2008 1:14 PM | Link to this
More news:
Despite yesterday’s reported contention from a Boras guy, ESPN’s Jayson Stark heard the Braves have “zero interest” in Lowe. Randy Wolf is on their radar as a backup plan for A.J. Burnett though.
By the Stranger
December 11, 2008 1:14 PM | Link to this
I feel saddest for Chipper, Bobby and DOB. True professionals. DOB may recover, but unless change comes from the top down and soon, October baseball in Atlanta is over for Chipper and Bobby.
It would be nice to have an owner with a recognizable face and a passion for winning baseball, and a steady GM who liked spending time on the farm. It would be nice to finish 20 games back and cheer for the kids who fought to make it to the show, instead of finishing 20 games back and watching your kids get shipped out for veterans we can’t pay to keep. And it would be really nice if Hampton apologized to every little kid who’s ever worn a Braves cap and Smoltzy thanked Uknowwho for every time he’s accommodated Braves’ management with a restructured contract, or played hurt, or played mad without throwing the front office or teammates under the bus.
Give me an owner with his own seat in the stands and nine ballplayers who are living their dream and I’m back with facepaint and a rejuvenated tomohawk chop. That would be nice, but I ain’t holding my breath.
DOB, keep dishing the music and the BBQ and the pie. Denizens of the Man in Black, stay classy.
By Efrim
December 11, 2008 1:16 PM | Link to this
Jayson Stark:
If the Braves lose out on A.J. Burnett, they won’t be turning their attention to Derek Lowe. A source familiar with their thinking says they have “zero” interest in Lowe. The Braves do have interest in “a couple” of other free-agent starters, the source said. And one is known to be left-hander Randy Wolf. They also would turn back to the trade market if their free-agent options don’t look promising.
I suppose the money has to be spent on someone. Maybe signing Randy Wolf and then trading for an inexpensive young starter? Would make some sense…..give the team some shot heading into 2009.
By Thundersticks
December 11, 2008 1:17 PM | Link to this
Even more news:
Rosenthal heard indications the Braves were preparing a final push for Burnett and would guarantee a fifth year.
By Original Jon
December 11, 2008 1:17 PM | Link to this
Ok, on MLBTradeRumors.com, it says that Randy Wolfe is on the Braves radar as a backup plan if AJ fails to sign. RANDY FRICKIN WOLFE is the backup plan???? That has to be false.
By Lew
December 11, 2008 1:18 PM | Link to this
Chuck is solid-Dude, don’t worry-even the Catholic Church forgave John Lennon. Of course, it did take over 40 years, but then again, the Pope doesn’t blog here, either. There is hope for you.
By Braves20
December 11, 2008 1:19 PM | Link to this
Very mixed emotions. First let’s allow the Yanks to overpay for Burnett. Peavy is another story. He could have been the key to turning ‘09 around.
Vasquez is a major upgrade - not an ace but an upgrade from the three inning performances of Reyes and James. Talk about taxing a bullpen.
Go after Sheets unless the price gets too high and, for God’s sake, sign Smoltz. Based on his body of work as a Brave, he deserves a contact even if he doesn’t throw an inning this year. To allow him to escape to one of the Evil Empires would be a disgrace.
By CouldItBe
December 11, 2008 1:19 PM | Link to this
Braves have no interest in pursuing Lowe
Thursday, December 11, 2008 | Print Entry
Posted by Jayson Stark
• If the Braves lose out on A.J. Burnett, they won’t be turning their attention to Derek Lowe. A source familiar with their thinking says they have “zero” interest in Lowe. The Braves do have interest in “a couple” of other free-agent starters, the source said. And one is known to be left-hander Randy Wolf. They also would turn back to the trade market if their free-agent options don’t look promising.
By ncscoots
December 11, 2008 1:19 PM | Link to this
guess the Peavy train has pulled back INTO the station, huh, Kevin?
By The Real Joebrave
December 11, 2008 1:19 PM | Link to this
Bada Big Bada Boom, I hate to say I told You So, But Ol Wren is in Wayyyyyy over his head… Watch now I bet he Grovels back to Towers and Rapes this farm system Good!!! If only I had 30 or 40 billion, I would purchase the team myself… No Reason the four Hole should be empty..Tex would still be here!!! No reason for Swinging and missing on Pitchers!!! This Guy is a Joke!!! he was in Baltimore,and He is here!!!
By Dudley-Do-Right
December 11, 2008 1:19 PM | Link to this
Peavy MIGHT be traded to the Cubs!
Smotlz MIGHT sign with the Red Sox, Tigers, or Mets!
Glavine MIGHT not pitch in ‘09!
Hampton MIGHT win the Cy Young with Houston!
BC MIGHT retire after next season!
Three of these could be considered a blessing in disguise.
By Bravosimos
December 11, 2008 1:20 PM | Link to this
DOB,
Do you think Wren might go to Towers with an ultimatum or final offer for Peavey being that AJ no longer seems an option, and the only other suitor for Peavey, the Cubs, are apparently not going to deal?
By Chicken Little
December 11, 2008 1:20 PM | Link to this
The sky MIGHT be falling!!!
The sky MIGHT be falling!!!
The sky MIGHT be falling!!!
And even more importantly, after yesterday’s hoax, we may never believe that U Know Who is really U Know Who ever again!!!
The sky MIGHT be falling!!!
The sky MIGHT be falling!!!
The sky MIGHT be falling!!!
By Lew
December 11, 2008 1:20 PM | Link to this
Maybe if someone could figure out how to re-fill Lake Lanier? Perhaps Peavy is afraid of running out of water if he comes to Atlanta?
By Eric from MO
December 11, 2008 1:20 PM | Link to this
N8 this is the first time I agree with you I think. I dont know about signing 4 of those guys but I think we should one maybe two. This way we have a veteran who can eat innings but wont be commtted to a long time and we wont blow out our young arms.
By Ramblin Wrecker
December 11, 2008 1:20 PM | Link to this
Am I the only one who thinks it is time to take the Braves back to ground zero? I feel like all this fence straddling is only delaying the inevitable: rebuilding.
When I heard about the possiblity of Jake Peavy being a Brave, I was optimistic. He is a great pitcher who has been very consistent and pretty much healthy. But once that seemed to pass away and it appeared the Braves hopes were pinned to guys like Javy Vasquez and AJ Burnett, I began to feel like I’d just as soon see the Braves plug in Jo Jo, Charlie Morton and Tommy Hanson in the rotation, Jordan Schaefer in CF, Jason Heyward in LF and any other promising prospects they have and lose 100 games than watch them win 80-85 with AJ Burnett on the DL half the time and Vasquez have a 4.00 ERA despite making $11 million a year. Because to me playing those kids and losing 100 games next season is a whole lot closer to winning the NL East, NL Pennant, and World Series than all these half measures and bandaids.
I am the last person who wants to see John Smoltz or Chipper Jones play in another uniform. But the writing is on the wall. The Braves don’t have any moves via free agency or trades that is going to reverse the losing trend in the time these two guys have left. Smoltz has the freedom to move on if he so chooses, but I think he would sign here and let the Braves give it one more shot, and then allow them to trade him to a contender in July and give him one more shot at the Series. And they could ask Chipper to tell them where he might be willing to go and they’d try to get him there and get some value in return. I’d hate it, but this in between pergatory we’re in is worse.
And I love Bobby Cox, but with his retirement peaking around the corner, maybe it’s time to hand the reigns over to Terry Pendleton or whoever the next guy might be and give him the kids and see how quickly they can get competitive. Then they’d have the financial flexibility to sign whichever free agent they want at whatever price to pull them into contendership, like Schuerholz did in the early 90’s. Lest we forget one reason the Braves could get Greg Maddux was because they were winners in 91-92 and didn’t have a lot of big money guys already on payroll. It’s time to repeat history.
By Bravosimos
December 11, 2008 1:21 PM | Link to this
If Towers says to Peavey “it’s us or the Braves”, who do you think he’d choose?
By N8
December 11, 2008 1:22 PM | Link to this
I’m telling you guys, Wren should be wheeling and dealing with Moore in KC.
I’m listening to 610 Sports out of KC online, and they just reported that HoRam just signed with the Royals.
Moore knows our system and knows our guys. Of course the flipside of that, is that Moore knows our system and knows our guys.
While he might place more value on somebody that another GM might, he also might know enough to undervalue some as well.
HoRam and Davies in KC. Wouldn’t it be ironic if it were those two that led the Royals back into contention with Grienke? LOL!
After all, Davies pitched better in September last year, than ANY of our pitchers did, including JJJ.
By DAP
December 11, 2008 1:22 PM | Link to this
after all the peavy bashing that has gone on here lately, how would you guys react if he ended up getting traded here?
By Bubdylan
December 11, 2008 1:22 PM | Link to this
HA HA HA HA HAAAAAAAAA!!! Die Towers, you FILTH!!!
……… uh… sorry.
By Vol
December 11, 2008 1:23 PM | Link to this
If the Peavy stuff is true I guess we offer Chief Knockahoma and a box of cubans to Towers. Man does he look like a loser in all of this.
By N8
December 11, 2008 1:23 PM | Link to this
Efrim
“I still don’t want Peavy. Especially after hearing about the “Go Cubs Go” thing.”
I must have missed that. What’s that all about?
By Don't Trade Franceour, Sheesh
December 11, 2008 1:23 PM | Link to this
Just some notes on Casey Kotchman:
He came to the Braves with a .287 avg. and finished with a .272 avg. He undoubtedly struggled in August with a new team and a sick mother. But he had a similarly drastic turn aroung in September.
In Aug. Kotchman hit .122 (11 H in 61 AB) with 7 BB and one multi-hit game and no HR (4RBI). In Sep he hit .304 (25 H in 82 AB) with 11BB and seven multi-hit games and 2HR (15RBI).
I don’t think anyone can blame Casey for the bad month he had when he came to Atlanta…totally new league and team and going from a the top of the AL West to the bottom of the NL East and all while mom is in the hospital.
Personally, I’m excited for a full season with Casey Kotchman. Imagine what could have happened last year if Texiera would have at least hit .300 in April and May? Spring Training is for gettin ready for the season, not the first 40 games.
By Craig
December 11, 2008 1:24 PM | Link to this
Someone get Ted & TBS back. At least we could still watch our losing team and feel sorry for the man in the FRONT row supporting his team.
Now we have no TV Station and owners no one has ever seen.
Murphy, Horner, Chambliss, Washington, Rameriz, Benedict, Hubbard ….. the list goes on
By Interested Observer
December 11, 2008 1:26 PM | Link to this
*From Rosenthal’s blog:
The Cubs were frustrated by the Padres’ attempts to seek five or six players for Peavy with one team executive saying, “They’re looking for a Herschel Walker-type deal.”*
Maybe there’s a good reason why Wren hasn’t revisted the Peavy talks.
By Original Jon
December 11, 2008 1:26 PM | Link to this
Ok, I have changed my thinking on the matter just a bit. While I agree that Burnett is not worth 17 million a year, there are no better options out there really. Say we push our offer up to 5 years and 87.5 million, making the annual deal 17.5 million, thats not so bad really. I mean its high, but you have to pay for good pitching, if not with money, with top prospects. And to be honest, I would rather it be money.
So lets say hypothetically that Burnett did come here and got injured after the first month, insurance would cover a majority of that year, and each year afterwards if he is still injured, up to three years. Not a big deal, and I am sure that we wont give him a no trade clause, so if he does stay healthy but is sucking us dry, we trade him after a few years when the market for starting pitching is going to make his 17 million a year contract look really good to competing teams.
Besides, what kinds of injuries has he had really? Nagging shoulder and elbow injuries? i dont know, what pitcher doesnt go through that at some point in time, I mean, he already had TJ surgery.
Lets push up our offer and really go for him, because I would hate a rotation of Jurrjens, Vazquez, Smoltz, Wolfe and Campillo/Morton/Reyes/Hanson
Burnett, Jurrjens, Smoltz, Vazquez and Hanson sounds alot better
By mike p in wc
December 11, 2008 1:26 PM | Link to this
DANNYFISH,
I couldn’t have said it better myself. I’ve always tried to remain confident in the Braves and the decisions they make. And I do still believe in Wren and Cox and the minds behind the scenes. It just really sucks seeing first Peavy, and now possibly Burnett slip away. But, it makes sense that if they do not have the desire to make us a better team and carry us, then it is best they do not join this club. A true competitor (Smoltz) would jump right at that opportunity to put a team on his back in his earlier days. Maybe it is a blessing in disguise if we miss out on these two, but presently it is a disappointment in my mind in not getting an ace. However, plenty of time left in this offseason and I’m sure plenty of ideas or plans inside the head of Frank Wren. GO BRAVES!
By N8
December 11, 2008 1:26 PM | Link to this
DOB
How much of the Braves LACK of interest in Lowe has to do with Boras?
I can’t for the life of me understand why they’d be willing to over-bid, like they have for Burnett, yet have “zero interest” in Lowe?
Makes ZERO sense to me.
By Lee in S GA
December 11, 2008 1:27 PM | Link to this
I still don’t want Peavy. Especially after hearing about the “Go Cubs Go” thing.
Erim
I’ve never been 100% for trading for him in the 1st place, especially if Escobar had to go. Now I agree with you completely. If he comes to Atlanta and this team under-performs you really think he is going to be patient enough to wait a few years until things start to improve, to a team he did not want to come to in the first place. I don’t think the no-trade clause contract would be a problem.
By KC
December 11, 2008 1:27 PM | Link to this
By the way, I know Vazquez isn’t the big topic of discussion here right now, but I just thought I’d point out some quality start totals of a few pitchers of interest…
2008 Quality starts:
Derek Lowe - 20
AJ Burnett - 19
J. Jurrjens - 17
Javier Vasquez - 17
Ben Sheets - 17
By Dadgum
December 11, 2008 1:29 PM | Link to this
Anders your response to N8 at 12:38 is absolutely on the money. Even if Smoltz is apparently healthy for opening day it would be too much to assume that he will “save” the Braves in ‘09. Don’t get me wrong I would like to have him in the starting rotation but I am not counting on it even after the news on his rehab this week.
Also if we are all being honest and fair who can blame Smoltz for looking elsewhere. Really. He has done all he could do over the years for Atlanta. Big game pitcher. Stud closer. Only pitcher ever over 200 wins and 150 saves. I am not going to play the loyalty card. He “owes” the Braves absolutely nothing.
At 42, if he answers the bell one more year (and maybe last year) we would be foolish to think he wouldn’t want to play for a world series contender over finishing up with the Braves. Smoltz is a competitor along the lines of Maddux. We love Mad Dog and we will always love Smoltzie regardless of where he finishes playing.
Rock on……keeping it real
By c-town braves fan
December 11, 2008 1:29 PM | Link to this
Randy Wolf is on their radar as a backup plan for A.J. Burnett though.
Randy wolf?!?!?!?!?!?!? RANDY WOLF!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?!?!
RANDY FREAKIN WOLF
By ncgary
December 11, 2008 1:30 PM | Link to this
id offer sheets 40 million 4 3 yrs or 50 million 4 4 yrs back weight it and trade him after a year if something else better comes along
By Joe M.
December 11, 2008 1:30 PM | Link to this
I said here a few days ago that Cubs’ fans were falling into the same trap as we did. This is King Kevin, worst and most greedy current baseball GM, they were dealing with. I truly hope it doesn’t hit them too hard. Towers like to jerk people around.
By Thundersticks
December 11, 2008 1:30 PM | Link to this
Follow me for a moment. What if we offered guaranteed 5/80 for AJ, but included incentives for each year based on innings pitched or games started that, if attained each season, could push the deal to 5/100? Example: he gets an additional $2 mil for hitting 180 IP, $3 mil if he hits 200 IP, or $5 mil if he hits 220 IP. That helps us offset the injury risk some, but allows him to earn more money IF he can stay healthy.
Thoughts???
By NCSUbrave
December 11, 2008 1:31 PM | Link to this
I don’t know if this has been posted but apparently the deal with the Cubs and Peavy is dead. So I wonder if Towers comes crawling back to us now. I agree with Ramblin Wrecker though. I think we should have a fire sale and really try to rebuild from the ground up. We need young guys and not guys like Burnett who has never pitched 200 innings consistantly thoughout his career.
Also, I don’t want us to panic and throw money at a guy like Randy Wolf if we don’t get Peavy or Burnett. Randy Wolf is no better than Vasquez.
By Shawn B
December 11, 2008 1:32 PM | Link to this
My hatred for the Cubs just lessened quite a bit. Stick that one in your ear Kevin (Mr. Integrity) Towers!!! HAHAHA
By Thundersticks
December 11, 2008 1:33 PM | Link to this
Mark my words, you will see much better years next year from Vazquez, Kotchman and Franceour.
By sri
December 11, 2008 1:35 PM | Link to this
Why is everyone blaming Towers?. Sure he may not handled the situation as skillfully as it could have been, but Peavy did not want to come to Atlanta. So what can Towers do? Even though Peavy had Atlanta on his list of teams, all the stories on the web hint that he did not want to play for Atlanta. He is not going to give a list of one team to his GM and say trade me. Towers is not going to openly come out say Peavy did not want to go to Atlanta, after he had it in his original list. I think Towers did a decent job and the leaks (abt not Peavy not liking Atl) were done on purpose, to save his behind. I think Towers had no leverage (he can wait until mid-season, provided his owner is willing to pay until then), that is the best scenario for the Padres right now.
By The Real Joebrave
December 11, 2008 1:37 PM | Link to this
Hey Frank Wren, maybe you should take a few pointers from Ol J.S. and leave before Ya get Fired!!! That’s right Shuerholtz saw the writing on the wall and dumped this mess in Wren’s incapable hands!!! What a Dumb@zz to think You could contend Last Year with Broken down old retread pitchers,and relive a glory past!!
Frank, take it from someone that has seen a lot of Braves seasons….Learn from mistakes already made..Never hold on to a player too long, never let one vest that ten Year stranglehold,and Never go to the Winter meetings without a Brain…
Leave Burnett on the Table Sir!!!!Let the Stankees watch his D.L. trips!!! Is it worth a call to Towers,probably but I would sit call the Ajc,get on the local News,or Radio,and without being a Smug @sswipe tell the Paying Fans, and season tix holders that the way things seem aren’t the way they really are.
Inform the group You already have that Being a Smart@ss to the Fans and consumer of Your Product(see Javier Vazquez yesterday on his chat when he informed a caller that a Question was Boring to Him!!)
Maybe You sir should take classes on the fine art of negotiating with a Free Agent!! Maybe You should Think before You trade a Joey Devine for another Broken down Player… Maybe You sir should Just Go Away!!!
By CB Chambers10
December 11, 2008 1:38 PM | Link to this
Haha hey DOB, now that the Peavy to Cubs crap is dead, now can you go tell Wren to go call Towers. They hace to cut payroll, hes desprite, we NEED Peavy. I think he might come crawling back like a little baby!! =] Towers is such a stupid idiot!!
By manolo
December 11, 2008 1:38 PM | Link to this
Its sad, but Minaya is making Wren look like a class B GM. A month ago we where after Peavy, they had nothing. Now they have an extremely good bullpen, and we have Vazquez. May God have mercy on us, if we sign randy Wolf over oliver Perez. At least Perez will make the METS lefties uncomfortable…
By Bubdylan
December 11, 2008 1:38 PM | Link to this
after all the peavy bashing that has gone on here lately, how would you guys react if he ended up getting traded here? -DAP,
I was just thinking about that myself. I’d say to heck with it and prepare for some good baseball.
I can’t be the only one wondering if Peavy’s about to re-think his (alleged) re-thinking of the Braves, now that it’s no longer Cubs or Braves, but, rather, Padres or Braves.
That’d be fickle, but it’s very possible he’s been fickle a bit already. That’s not very exciting, I admit, but I still take a fickle Peavy over a 5 year Burnett. After all, there’s not question that Peavy will pitch with passion, once he’s out there, no matter the team.
By Eware
December 11, 2008 1:38 PM | Link to this
Man, after reading that blog, I feel like I just sat through the yearly Hellfire and Damnation sermon at church…
Well, everything certainly stinks right now. But, I believe that something good is going to work out for the Braves. I think we’ll get one of A.J., Sheets, or Lowe - after the Yankees get the one they want. Ridiculous.
By sri
December 11, 2008 1:40 PM | Link to this
I guess this is why JS did not believe in No-Trade clauses to a player. I would rather pay a couple of million dollars more than grant a no-trade clause to a player.
By DannyFish
December 11, 2008 1:40 PM | Link to this
For all of those saying that we screwed up by letting Tex go please stop. That would be an awesome thing to say on a blog that contains zero people that have any knowledge of the situation. Unfortunately for some of you this is not that site.
We aren’t going to spend 200 mil on one player. Move on.
By McFann O –[zzz]
December 11, 2008 1:41 PM | Link to this
Peavy deal is dead??
Haha! Ya know what would be great? If Towers and the Padres have to keep Peavy, and every time Peavy faces the Braves or the Cubs he gets his clock cleaned!
Ah-haaaa…but now that I said that, the opposite will happen.
By Eric from MO
December 11, 2008 1:43 PM | Link to this
DAP”after all the peavy bashing that has gone on here lately, how would you guys react if he ended up getting traded here?”
I would say everybody would be saying its the greatest pickup since Maddux. Freakin Hypocrites! I know I will be glad, but I have been all for Peavy and have yet to bash him. I cant really blame him for rather being a Cub. I mean would you rather play for contender who has been to the postseason the past two years or a team who has missed it the past three.
By SeaAtl
December 11, 2008 1:44 PM | Link to this
Where are you guys reading that Chicago and San Diego have broken off Peavy trade talks? I can’t find it on the web anywhere. Also, I may be attacked for asking a “dumb” question, but wasn’t Lowe the pitcher than a few of the Braves said at the end of last season they wish we’d pursue? And now a report that Atlanta has zero interest.
By Jersey Gil
December 11, 2008 1:44 PM | Link to this
Some one Ask if AJ Burnett is a better Start than Sheets, here is your answers: Burnett in Ten (10) Services has record of 87-76, 215 Games , 19CG, 1376.3 Inning and 3.81era, best year 2008 18-10. Sheets in 8Yr Services has record of 86-83 221 games, 18CG, 1428 inning and 3.72 era. Make your own conclusion.
By rammerjammer
December 11, 2008 1:44 PM | Link to this
Hey, if you wanna buy a Mercedes but there aren’t any around, you gonna walk home…or buy the Ford?
By TennesseePaul
December 11, 2008 1:44 PM | Link to this
without getting at least one more top-notch starting pitcher
The way this is written it would seem to imply the Braves actually already have 1 top-notch starting pitcher…
only Brian McCann is signed beyond 2009
Unfortunately this is a partial truth. Vazquez is a Braves and signed beyond 2009.
…starters like Jon Garland, Randy Wolf or Oliver Perez…Or are they planning on going with Vasquez, Jurrjens, Morton, Reyes, and Campillo
Isn’t this all the same thing only one is more expensive than the other?
Wren’s failures aside, this Hendry thinks Towers is asking for too much business just made my day! Oh how I hope that is true.
By TomahawkChop
December 11, 2008 1:44 PM | Link to this
**Listen yes it is depressing that the Braves haven’t accomplished more this offseason but at least the powers that be are not completley mortgaging the future of the organization for a shot of competing next year. JS did plenty of that before FW took the reigns on short term player rentals. We have to get back to what made the Braves great and that is home grown talent. Thats the route we have to go since we cant compete financially with the big boys anymore.
I would like to see them sign Lowe not Sheets with his numerous dl stints, and go after Abreu AND Griffey Jr. for the pop that is so desperatly needed to be added to our lineup. Hell maybe even Adam Dunn instead of Abreu. Then Throw the young guns in the fire and set this organization up for the years to come!
Just do not mortgage our future talent anymore for stop gaps.
By Steve from OH
December 11, 2008 1:46 PM | Link to this
If we resume the Peavy talks, Escobar should be off the table. Towers had his chance, and blew it.
I hope FW improves his offer enough to get Burnett, so we don’t have to trade any more players to get Peavy. But if we don’t land Burnett, I think we have to make another run at Peavy.
By AdirondackDave
December 11, 2008 1:47 PM | Link to this
Sure hope our “ace” isn’t Randy Wolf, even if he does get an occasional base hit.
By ThisIsGonnaHurt
December 11, 2008 1:47 PM | Link to this
Face it - we can’t blame it all on management and ownership. We had a great run in the early 90’s and the attendance soared. We got lots of money and went and got big names like Greg Maddux and Fred McGriff, and were able to hold onto our new superstars.
Then came the strike. Bad timing. Our best year - our World Series - came the next year. Attendance was not bad considering, but from then on it seemed to slip, especially after it got away in 1996. People in ATL seemed to get bored with the Braves. They still draw well enough to field a team with $80-100 mil payroll, but management can’t justify keeping up with crazy payrolls from fanatic towns like NY and Boston if we are not selling out more.
Part of it can be blamed on the city. The idiots first did not run MARTA directly to the ALREADY EXISTING stadium when the subway went in. They charge a ton for parking, and you still have to walk forever. Then when they decided to build the new stadium for the Olympics/future baseball, they dropped the ball on the perfect spot (Atlantic Station) and went next door to the already poor location due to no MARTA.
I actually give Liberty Media some kudos. They ARE increasing our payroll this year, with no assurance whatsoever that attendance will increase. They have given the green light for our GM to be more aggressive in the offseason than in years. Granted, there are pretty big holes. And we are in a bidding war with the Yankees now for one of the top pitchers out there (when he’s healthy).
AJC was terrible managment, I won’t argue against that. And I put all that blame on Turner - he should have held the Braves out. There was no reason for them to become a corporate asset. I think Liberty looks at us more as a sideshow, and if we succeed in bringing in money they will probably return the investment. I remember when they first took control their CEO admitted he is a baseball fan and just likes a good team. Obviously it’s not the same as having an individual owner as we did under Ted. Keep in mind that during most of those years we absolutely sucked. Lovable but terrible. He did not throw money at the team blankly either. Finally our farm system just had to get good with that many high draft picks! Then as we succeeded Ted did the right thing and invested in what was working. I’d welcome him again as owner if he promised not to sell to another hack internet company again!
The cable channel issue sucks too - the deal with TBS was awesome, because it was a nationwide network with local roots. Now we have Peachtree, which is just as good, but only regional. So we don’t have the far-reaching broadcasts we once did. That has to hurt the bottom line somewhere. The Yankees have their own TV network, and it’s regional, but NY is a city 3x the population of Atlanta. They will always have more money.
To sum it up - we have to do our part. We have to go to the games. Wren has a tough job to rebuild the rotation, he is doing some interesting moves. But if we don’t show up to watch the show, they won’t continue to try putting extra money in. It comes from ticket revenue.
By GermanBravesFan
December 11, 2008 1:48 PM | Link to this
N8 - YES YES YES… why not deal Hanson for Peavy? That move would should Peavy that the Braves are serious about winning…
By GermanBravesFan
December 11, 2008 1:51 PM | Link to this
rammerjammer - I would buy two VW’s!!
By flange1
December 11, 2008 1:53 PM | Link to this
What a fun day!!!
Some of you folks really do amaze me.
JoeBrave still talking about the Joey Devine deal like it was the worst thing in the history of the world, just like dealing Betemet was the worse thing.
If AJ wants to pitch in the AL as a number 2 or 3 rather than playing in the NL as a number 1 for the Braves so be it.
Same with Peavy. If he does not want to play for the Braves, good luck in San Diego!
If Smoltz is ready to move on, then thanks for the memories, see you soon!
I don’t have a problem with 2009 being a rebuilding year.
If we want to contend, look at Sheets for 2 years at 16 million a year.
Sheets has been a number 1 and he might only give you 80% of the starts you want, but they will be good ones.
By Fire Frank Wren
December 11, 2008 1:54 PM | Link to this
Takes credit among fans for Renteria trade started under Schuerholz
Traded Devine for Mark Kotsay
First year as GM produced worst Braves’ team since 1990
Failed to acquire Jake Peavy
Prospects of landing Burnett still very iffy
Is considering Randy freaking Wolf
Hasn’t locked up Chipper Jones beyond 2009; and indeed has started spinning it on the Braves’ official site as: “many good players play for more than one team, even Dale Murphy”
May let John Smoltz, JOHN SMOLTZ, leave
By David O'Brien
December 11, 2008 1:55 PM | Link to this
Well, now I’m hearing that the Cubs have pulled out of Peavy talks. Stay tuned….
Braves officials are packing it up and headed out, just like those of about every other club. They were all coming and going by the elevators, shaking hands and call-you-laters.
Braves made no transactions in this entire four days except losing minor league OF Carl Loadenthal to the Mets in the Rule 5 draft (the Braves took no one in the draft).
But Wren insisted this morning that he’s optimistic, because a couple of possibilities opened up here, possible trades that could happen in next few days or early next week, and he reiterated they still think they’re in on Burnett. He talked to the agent again.
By the way, Braves have NOT contacted Boras about Lowe, and doesn’t sound like they have any intention of doing so. Also, Sheets probably too big a risk for this team to consider, given their recent history with arm injuries and the way Sheets finished the season, struggling mightily in his last three starts and then shutting it down at the end in a playoff race.
By Steve from OH
December 11, 2008 1:56 PM | Link to this
All of you pro-salary cappers out there should take a look at this Squawking Baseball article, it explains the reasons against it pretty well.
Oh, and Jason Heyward will start ‘09 in Myrtle Beach, NOT Atlanta. Please people, be reasonable. Reading the blog the past night has been painful.
By Novice Ned
December 11, 2008 1:57 PM | Link to this
Dadgum is right… Smoltz owes us NOTHING and would be prudent to go to a team with a legit shot at giving him a chance to pitch in October. That’s not happening in Atlanta… not this coming season.
Here’s hoping Wren doesn’t panic and shoot himself in the foot by making a horrible trade or over-spending on the wrong player.
By Carl
December 11, 2008 1:58 PM | Link to this
Looks like it might be time for us to adopt the Twins/Rays/A’s model. Build from within and use your money to keep your own. Be competitive when you can but don’t sacrifice the future for a shot at the present. We can’t spend with the Yankees/Mets/Red Sox. They’re playing with Monopoly money. Let’s keep our young talent, hope for the best in 2009, and be ready to field a good young team for many years thereafter.
By the way, if the Yankees keep this up, what fun is there in winning? Why not buy Pujols, Manny, and and Peavy, too, just to make sure?
By Jesse
December 11, 2008 1:58 PM | Link to this
Please Please Please don’t waste money on Wolf. Just keep the cash. A little money to Brian for hair plugs and Yunnel for braces would be much better spent.
By David O'Brien
December 11, 2008 2:00 PM | Link to this
When asked if he left here frustrated about the lack of moves, Wren said, “No. I think we’re optimistic. In the case of A.J., he’s still available and out there. As well as a couple of pitching possibilities that are open to us and if we go into next week, we can discuss.”
(By that he meant, there are a couple of pitchers, one whose team needs to do another it’s consider before the pitcher would be available, and another pitcher the Braves have the framework for a possible deal in place, but just need to agree on players that would go to the other team. Could that be Greinke? Don’t know.)
By JIMMY L
December 11, 2008 2:01 PM | Link to this
BREAKING NEW frank wren just signed rick camp to a 3 year 22m deal. and is also talking to gene garber about 2 year 20 m dollar deal.
By DAP
December 11, 2008 2:02 PM | Link to this
for the couple of posters above to advocate a “fire sale” for the braves…please explain something to me. what exactly are going to sell? from what i can tell, we have chipper, gonzalez, and maybe frenchy and soriano (i say maybe because they arent really tradeable)add to that untradable list tim hudson, and lets pretend the vazquez trade never happend. pretty much everyone else on this braves team is the kind of player you try to RECEIVE in a fire sale! all young and under control cheaply for a long time!
after you do this, youve almost doubled the amount of extra payrole for 2009, by losing the big contracts of hudson, chipper, and soriano.
so what would you do with the $70mil surplus? stick it in your pocket?
talking about this braves team having a “fire sale” and “rebuilding” is pretty silly. they are not in a position to do it. they are already a very young, talented team.
By wooow
December 11, 2008 2:05 PM | Link to this
interested too see what happens now.. if randy wolf is the answer i will be very disappointed and that will be 32 games that i plan not too watch.
By Lynyrd Skynyrd
December 11, 2008 2:05 PM | Link to this
Big Jake keep on running
Away from home and his kin
Singing songs about the Cubbies
And I think its a sin, yes
Well I heard mister Peavy sing about the Cubbies
Well, I heard ole Jake put us down
Well, I hope Jake Peavy will remember
A Southern man don’t need him around anyhow
Sweet home Alabama
Where the skies are so blue
Sweet Home Alabama
Lord, Jake ain’t coming home to you
Jake, does your conscience bother you?
By Mark
December 11, 2008 2:06 PM | Link to this
DOB you better get going if you want to catch the Office.
By Salmonator
December 11, 2008 2:07 PM | Link to this
Frank Wren appears to be getting played by agents to run up the $$$ for their clients. I’d rather have three reclamation projects for $5M apiece than Burnett. He is most likely to be the next “Mike Hampton-in-waiting”. If we have all this money, why not make a run at Big Tex? No one on our roster except McCann, Frenchy & Jurrjens should be untouchable. I agree that Escobar could be traded & we should make another run at Furcal - - - we need his leadoff ba as much as anything this offseason.
By Shawn B
December 11, 2008 2:08 PM | Link to this
GermanBravesFan….NO NO NO NO NO to dealing Hanson for Peavy. Why would you trade a guy that has been talked about as a stud by EVERYONE who has seen him for a guy that really doesn’t want to be here. If they were to do it you’ll be one of the first ones on here in a year or two when Hanson is pitching lights out for the Padres moaning about Wren trading him. I wouldn’t mind the Braves getting back into talks with the Padres, but that list of untouchables put forth by Frank Wren, needs to stay that way…Untouchable.
By Doc Holliday
December 11, 2008 2:09 PM | Link to this
Braves should have the upperhand now that things are not looking good for Peavy and the cubs……… Wren would be dumb if he gives up Hanson……..give up kj, reyes and some AA guys and stay with prado and yunel……….if they dont want that……..let peavy go and go harder for AJ.
BTW, that move by the muts looks huge, Id say as big as Santanas move. IMO.
By Hooisier Aaron
December 11, 2008 2:10 PM | Link to this
You want an ACE?
How about this one?
Talk to the Tribe about Cliff Lee.
He has one year at $5.75 Million left on his contract.
If he has another year anywhere close to this one - chances are he’ll end up being in the CC price range and the Tribe will dump him at the deadline.
However, if it was a fluke - the Tribe get nothing.
Why not call Cleveland and see what they’re thinking?
Oh, see if they’ll throw in Grady - since we’d be doing them a favor by taking Lee while his trade value is at its peak. :^)
By sathefari
December 11, 2008 2:11 PM | Link to this
Can we get a friggin salary cap in baseball already?
By N8
December 11, 2008 2:12 PM | Link to this
GermanBravesFan
Ask the Tigers if they would have rather had Smoltz for a decade, or Doyle Alexander for a season and a half (and he helped them win the pennant).
Ask the Red Sox if they would like to rethink the Larry Anderson for Jeff Bagwell trade.
You think Seattle would like to have David Ortiz back (yeah, that’s right, he was given up on by the Mariners BEFORE the Twins gave up on him).
I wonder if the Dodgers ever felt good about the Delino DeShields for Pedro trade?
Why on earth didn’t the Dodgers trade Fernando Valenzuela before he got to the big-leagues?
We’d have Peavy under control for 4 years (maybe 5) at 17 million per.
We’ll have Hanson under control for 1/10 of that for the same time.
Besides. Peavy doesn’t want to be a Brave. Anybody that doesn’t want to be a Brave, I don’t want to BE a Brave.
Listen, (or read), I’m aware of the “risk” that Hanson might end up being nothing more than a flash in the pan minor league player.
But I think based on his scouting reports and what he’s capable of becoming, he could very well give us what Jake Peavy would give us, and a fraction of the cost.
I respect your desire to sell of young guys for proven veterans. I myself want to hang on to the young guys. Because since we can’t compete with the Yankees for free agents, we need our young (cheap) guys to carry us.
I’m all for making a “Melvin Nieves for Fred McGriff” type of trade. Those are good for us.
I just have the feeling that Hanson is something special and hope that Wren sticks true to his word and keeps him.
Trading Hanson at this point, with what he’s done in the past year of his development, would be like trading Chipper Jones back in 94, when he was on the verge of being a big-leaguer.
Granted Chipper was a #1 overall pick. But the value that Hanson could bring to us for the next decade, is worth missing out on 4 years of Peavy for, IMO.
By Mike
December 11, 2008 2:13 PM | Link to this
If I were FW…
I tell AJ that we will put an offer for 5 yrs on Sat. Tell him that you are sure of the $ amount yet. (even though the offer should be 5/80). I would then go back to Towers and offer the last package that we offered. Tell him its this or nothing and put a deadline on it for Sat morning. I dont want to end up with BOTH peavy and AJ, but i still think i would rather have Peavy over AJ. So if Peavy/Towers still doesnt take it, then you make your offer for AJ. Maybe Peavy & Towers take it b/c otherwise Towers gets nothing and Peavy ends up on a loser with way lees of a chance to compete than the Braves. Maybe it doesnt work that way, but it should.
By Dadgum
December 11, 2008 2:14 PM | Link to this
On XM Radio apparently on reports via MLB.com indicates the Braves have apparently tendered a final take it or leave it offer to AJ Burnett at 5 years guaranteed and 80mil.
I wouldn’t go higher than that as that is too high as it is but at least the Braves are giving it that final shot. Unless I have missed something, isn’t this the same thing the braves were reported to offer last night but really didn’t only to hear the Yankees were going to trump that anyway? At least Wren can say he gave it his best effort before he walked away from the meetings.
N8 I am with you man. No idea why the Braves have zero interest in Lowe. A sinker ball pitcher that has never been on the DL…nobody would be interested in that would they? Does the guy carry other baggage we don’t know about? Most likely I guess.
Rock on……5/80 for Burnett is too much.
By SeaAtl
December 11, 2008 2:14 PM | Link to this
I’m curious why so many want to label Towers an idiot. Maybe he doesn’t really want to trade Peavey. If I didn’t really want to make a deal, I’d ask for too much and see what happened. Like putting a piece of real estate on the market & asking a lot for it because you are liquid enough to not HAVE to sell it. Doesn’t make the guy an idiot.
By Chuck James is solid until the 6th!! (Formerly Steve-O)
December 11, 2008 2:15 PM | Link to this
DOB is being eerily quiet…
N8 I say nooo Randy and 2/30 with a 3/45 on Sheets, getting the 3rd based on performance in year 2, strictly because Randy has no potential to consistently dominate stretches of games and he is 45 years old.
Lew So you’re saying there’s a chance, ay???
By DMBJAMS
December 11, 2008 2:15 PM | Link to this
This sh*t has me stressed out. Come on Frank, give us some good news.
By chris
December 11, 2008 2:16 PM | Link to this
yea DOB, but are those pitchers be considered “ace” material in which wren is looking at?
By Keeper
December 11, 2008 2:19 PM | Link to this
Maybe it will turn out to be what the Braves planned (and you persistently indicated) all along - that Peavy will be our man.
Towers declined to say whether he’d revisit the Braves, claiming no new Peavy moves will be explored until next week. But given that the Cubs house of cards has officially collapsed as suspected (love it!), it’s worth asking the question again, DOB:
Do you think Towers gets more talent out of the Braves now (it certainly won’t be the “Herschel Walker package” that the Cubs said Towers wanted!) or by waiting until the trade deadline?
And part two of that question, given reports of Peavy’s lukewarm attitude toward the Braves: do you think he’d rather muddle through half a losing season in the comforts of San Diego and then go to a clear playoff contender, or get the uncertainty overwith and give the Braves a shot?
Me, I have no qualms about his attitude - he hasn’t yet lived the Braves clubhouse experience. By the end of spring training, Cox would have him ready to run through walls. (And if that weren’t enough, you know Smoltz would light a fire under his arse.)
I know there are a lot of bad feelings out there right now, given Towers’ stunts and Peavy’s lack of visible love for our team, but in light of where contracts are going, four years at $63 million is looking like a relative steal for an ace, particularly since Towers now has no one to play us against. He might put on that he’s willing to wait until the trade deadline, but who knows, the divorce-embroiled, cash-strapped team ownership may need to do a deal now, not seven months from now.
By Eric from MO
December 11, 2008 2:19 PM | Link to this
Ever who called Wren a clown is an idiot. What has he done? He made a great trade for JJJ. Yeah he gave away Devine but Devine was never going to do anything here. He was too screwed up here. He didnt get Peavy but that was because of Towers and he wont get Burnett but that is cuz of the Yankees. Yeah his first year the Braves did terrible but he inherited a bad team.
By nique
December 11, 2008 2:20 PM | Link to this
Lew, unfortunately two months into the offseason we’ve already lost out on an ace for whom everyone said that we were the FAVORITES, we are guaranteed to lose out on the #2 SP FA Burnett (which I’m actually ok with given the price tag), and we traded a really nice prospect for a mediocre pitcher. Mistakes have already been made and opportunities lost.
By ppaddy123
December 11, 2008 2:20 PM | Link to this
Just how valuable is Tommy Hanson? I ask this because he hasn’t thrown one pitch in the major leagues. I seems pretty obvious the Yankees are going to out spend EVERYONE where free agent pitching is concerned. I see where they have offered the “golden” 5th year to Burnett. They are also looking into signing Derek Lowe. We all know they have the money to do that. Now, back to the Tommy Hanson question. According to Kevin Kennedy, the Padres would prefer starting pitching in a trade for Jake Peavy. Escobar is a major league starting SS. Among NL starting SS, he was 6th in BA, 3rd in OBP, and 7th in OPS. The Braves control his salary for at least 2-3 more years. Will Tommy Hanson be a top starter in 2-3 years? He’s projected to be, but no one knows for sure. RIGHT NOW TOMMY HANSON IS A PROSPECT I say pull back Escobar from the Peavy offer. Instead, offer Hanson, Reyes, and maybe Hernandez. Personally, I would pull back Hernandez and offer Anderson instead.
By N8
December 11, 2008 2:24 PM | Link to this
GermanBravesFan
Earlier I said to you:
“Ask the Tigers if they would have rather had Smoltz for a decade, or Doyle Alexander for a season and a half (and he helped them win the pennant).”
Actually, it was 2.5 seasons of Alexander. And he didn’t help them win the pennant. He did go 9-0 (with a 1.53 ERA), for them down the stretch in 87, leading them to the AL East title, but the Twins beat them in the ALCS and eventually won the WS.
And in the end, the Braves had Smoltz for 2 decades, not 1. Now, one could assume at some point that Smoltz might have moved on if it was any other organization, but he is a Michagan native and might not have ever left.
Too bad for them, good for us.
My bad. But my point remains the same.
By Confused
December 11, 2008 2:24 PM | Link to this
So let me get this straight…when Peavy might become a Brave, he’s a stud. When he spurns the Braves, he’s “not the sharpest tool in the shed,” and has no heart. Then, when he’s available again, he’s an ace and you all want to see Frank Wren go after him. So, which is it—is he an ace or isn’t he?
Same with Tex—before the Braves got him, he was the second coming of Babe Ruth. After you traded him away, he wasn’t “clutch,” and had no heart. But of course, you all thought teams should be giving you two or more A-level major-league players for him at the same time.
If the Braves do get Peavy, I hope someone shows him this blog so he can see what the Atlanta fans really think about him.
By Nocturnal Owl
December 11, 2008 2:25 PM | Link to this
I think AJ has less heart than most. In fact, I think he’s an overgrown soft, pansy
Great description on AJ. No emotions just facts.
If we resume the Peavy talks, Escobar should be off the table. Towers had his chance, and blew it Steve from OH
This would never happen. Peavy won’t come here and Towers demands too much. I personally wouldn’t want a guy that really does want to be here. Hey at least Vazquez is, he won’t have to hear Ozzie Guillen ripped him for not being a big-game pitcher.
I think we all should forget about Peavy.
By Hannibal Lecter
December 11, 2008 2:25 PM | Link to this
Jake, you know what you look like to me, with your good gun and your cheap camo? You look like a rube. A well scrubbed, hustling rube with a little taste. Good nutrition has given you some length of bone, but you’re not more than one generation from poor white trash, are you Jake Peavy? And that accent you’ve tried so desperately to shed? Pure Lower Alabama. What’s your father, dear? Was he a coal miner? Did he stink of olean? You know how quickly the boys found you… all those tedious sticky fumblings in the back seats of cars…while you could only dream of getting out… getting anywhere… getting all the way to the CHI.
By Eric from MO
December 11, 2008 2:25 PM | Link to this
DAP you are right. We dont have alot of people to sell. However, I say we do sell the few pieces such as Chipper and maybe Gonzo and Soriano. Chipper probably wont help this team to win enough. There just isnt enough of good pieces, so lets go into a full rebuild mode.
By Nocturnal Owl
December 11, 2008 2:27 PM | Link to this
Devine was never going to do anything here. He was too screwed up here. Eric from MO
aaah so what Bobby Cox mishandled him. Not good enough reason…
By Chuck James is solid until the 6th!! (Formerly Steve-O)
December 11, 2008 2:28 PM | Link to this
Dadgum Yeh Lowe certainly carries baggage, a slamming blonde bombshell of a wife that he nabbed away from Fox Sports..
By BravesFanInRockies
December 11, 2008 2:30 PM | Link to this
Let me now defend Randy Wolf. He’s a decade younger than Tom Glavine, has a comparable career WHIP and misses many more bats (career K/BB is 2.2/1 vs. Glav’s 1.7/1).
Over his career, he has done slightly better than league average in ERA. He had one awful season — 2006 with Philly.
At $8mm-10mm per year for 2-3 years, he’s a worthy addition to the rotation, and provides a veteran lefty — heck, A lefty. Not as expensive as Pettite.
Especially with AJ slipping away, he’s not a bad alternative.
By BlaineBoyerstarter
December 11, 2008 2:31 PM | Link to this
Hello People i’m here….i can Start…Just give me a chance and i will take you to the promise land. Rotation: JJ Vazquez Boyer Hanson JOJO
By SC James
December 11, 2008 2:31 PM | Link to this
I am not that excited about the idea of getting Burnett. That is one of those deals that just seems like it is going to backfire on us. For this season let’s make our rotation (hoping that Smoltz and Glavine can come back and pitch effective and if we can sign Sheets to 3yr. 20-30 million deal)
Then we can have Hanson getting a little more seasoning in the minors and always have him and a few more of the young guys in the minors as backup plans if we need them
By N8
December 11, 2008 2:32 PM | Link to this
Carl
Great post at 1:58. Especially like the question(s) you ended with.
How very true.
By BX
December 11, 2008 2:33 PM | Link to this
If either of the two deals DOB hinted are decent, it makes more sense than throwing all of our money at a #1 who will be injured all the time.
By Jeff321
December 11, 2008 2:34 PM | Link to this
In other words.. Playing for Bobby Cox or the Atlanta Braves isn’t exactly what any stud pitcher wants to do!
Imagine my shock.
Go on, tell me how we were this/close to landing a thoroughbred, eh?
By SeaAtl
December 11, 2008 2:35 PM | Link to this
Not many people here were on the Hanson bandwagon before the latest Arizona Fall League. Same goes for Tyler Flowers. So I don’t understand why those same people will say giving up Flowers wasn’t so bad ‘cause he’s only had one breakout minor league season, but that we just can’t lose Hanson. Same levels, same amount of success. I, for one, would rather keep a young pitching stud since they are harder to replace, but still…….
By Bubdylan
December 11, 2008 2:35 PM | Link to this
So let me get this straight…when Peavy might become a Brave, he’s a stud. When he spurns the Braves, he’s “not the sharpest tool in the shed Confused
I’ll clear it up for you: you don’t have to be the sharpest tool in the shed to be a stud pitcher.
If the Braves do get Peavy, I hope someone shows him this blog so he can see what the Atlanta fans really think about him. Confused
If it’s true he sang the song and put the Braves down… and then if it happens that he comes here to pitch anyway, he will hardly be in a postion to judge us for flip-flopping our affection for him.
By fieldofdreams
December 11, 2008 2:36 PM | Link to this
The Frank “Wren over his head” Era has begun: 1. Fans on Jake Peavy,immediately sending message that Braves aren’t serious about winning to other pitching prospects. 2. Even with a wad of money, (probably) fans on AJ Burnett. 3. Trades a great young catching prospect, and a promising young pitcher, for an average middle aged pitcher. 4. Bemused Smoltz, sensing desperation,( and having been slain in divorce court) demands every available Brave dollar to stay in town. Sadly, even though Smoltz is probably done as a top tier pitcher. he’ll either get a huge contract, or flee to New York. Note to Braves: no matter how hard it is,let him go. The money will be better spent on a younger player. 5. Mets address their bullpen Achilles by signing Putz and K-Rod. 6 Braves enter season in worse shape than last year, and with non existent chemistry, finish 30 games out. Fans won during the 90’s shift allegiance to other teams.
By tennessejed
December 11, 2008 2:36 PM | Link to this
Guys we can forget about Peavy and 2009 totally. No One wants to play for the Braves-like O’Brien stated. Also, Peavy has told quite a few people that he doesn’t want to play for the Braves. So he will NOT waive his no trade clause to pitch here, and Wren and company have already stated that they are glad the deal didn’t go through, because they were becoming “uncomfortable” with the thoughts of who they were going to have to give up. Every DAMN FA worth a crap is going to be fitted for pinstripes next year, so we can forget Peavy, Burnett, and just about everyone else. Just let the kids pitch.
By Eric from MO
December 11, 2008 2:36 PM | Link to this
Confused-he is an ace. I have never went away from that. I have always been hoping the Braves get him. As long as you dont give Hanson or Heyward.
By N8
December 11, 2008 2:37 PM | Link to this
Confused
No. Peavy would STILL be an Ace either way. But I reserve the right to question anybody who calls them selves and Ace and who’s GM (or agent in the case of Burnett), wants a king’s ransom for him, though that person seems unwilling to be “THE MAN”, and carry a team on his back.
It says a lot about that person mentally, IMO.
As for Tex? Get real. Most of us that were talking about him NOT being clutch, were saying it for weeks (if not 2 or 3 months) BEFORE he was traded to the Angels.
Or didn’t you watch any Braves games in April or May?
I cannot WAIT to see how the Red Sox fans feel about his “slow start” this spring. Now, THAT is gonna be entertaining.
“If the Braves do get Peavy, I hope someone shows him this blog so he can see what the Atlanta fans really think about him.”
Yeah. Because he realy cares.
By dmack
December 11, 2008 2:38 PM | Link to this
DOB,
Is Kevin Towers really prepared to not trade Jake Peavy.
Personally, I would much rather have Jake Peavy (even at the cost of both prospects and salary) than AJ Burnett for the next five years.
By Dadgum
December 11, 2008 2:39 PM | Link to this
Chuck Jamesmaybe Lowe’s wife will make up for the fact he has Boras as an agent. A little levity amongst all this crapola today.
Rock on…..
By GeorgetownKid
December 11, 2008 2:40 PM | Link to this
I read somewhere higher up on this blog that Randy Wolf is a potential fall-back option if the Braves don’t land Burnett.
I don’t know how credible that rumor is, but I fervently hope that it is not seriously being considered.
Randy Wolf will cost around $8-10 million per year, and will have a .500 record AT BEST. We can get comparable if not better production from Campillo and/or Morton who both cost the league minimum. And with them, we at least can expect improvement with time.
If the Braves cannot land a bonafide ace, or at least a top-of-the-rotation starter, they should NOT settle for a mediocre bottom-of-the-rotation starter, which is what Wolf would be on a good team. Of course, one could make a very sound argument that the Braves spent way too much on Vazquez, who is a middle-of-the-rotation starter, but that is a different subject.
I would rather the Braves hold on to their money for potential mid-season trades. Hell, I would prefer they keep their money and invest in more scouts, or stadium upgrades, if the alternative is spending too much on mediocrity.
I am reminded of the NBA offseason of 2000 when several top players were free agents, including Tim Duncan, Grant Hill, Tracy McGrady, etc. The Chicago Bulls had strategically saved cap room for that offseason when they had the maximum amount to spend.
They put on a full-court-press to sign the aforementioned stars, but they all went elsewhere (Hill and McGrady to Orlando and Duncan stayed put). Having missed out on the stars they targeted, they gave nearly max contracts to second-tier stars like Eddie Jones. The Bulls were terrible for several years after that.
If the Braves miss out on Burnett, Peavy, Lowe, etc., I hope they do not spend their money just because they are able to. For as the Bulls (and many other pro teams) have proven, giving All-Star money to a second-rate player doesn’t make that player an All-Star.
He just becomes an over-paid second-rate player.
So I hope that the Braves’ free agent cash doesn’t burn a hole in Frank Wren’s pocket, making him spend it on guys who aren’t worth the money (like Randy Wolf).
By Joe M.
December 11, 2008 2:40 PM | Link to this
Braves trading Chipper this offseason=0%
Hopefully they sign him to an extension rather than wait till he is a free agent after 2009 or put us through July 2009 Chipper trade rumors/arguments if the team is bad.
By Marty
December 11, 2008 2:41 PM | Link to this
N8 - I’m glad you’ve calmed down some over a couple weeks ago; you’re making some really good points the last couple of days. For one, I agree with you that given our position amongst MLB clubs in terms of payroll, while we’re not completely handicapped, we do have to be somewhat dependent on developing our own guys. I also agree that Hanson looks so good that it could be very dangerous to trade him. I think that it’s a non-issue, though, since Frank Wren has stated all along that Hanson will not be traded.
Now, this isn’t aimed at N8 specifically, but rather anyone who thinks we should sign Derek Lowe.
Please, oh, please, explain to me how it would make sense for us to commit 5 years and $85M or more to a guaranteed non-ace. Lowe is a nice pitcher, but he isn’t now and has never been an ace. At age 35, it is extremely unlikely that he will improve much over what he has been for the last several years, which is a good, but not great (3.50ish ERA in the NL, 4.50+ in the AL) starting pitcher. Sure, he’s had a couple of good years as a starter, but given his age, it’s pretty likely he’s already seen his best ones.
For a team with limited finances and the stated intent of developing young pitching, signing a guy like Lowe for 5 years just does not make sense to me.
By Chop Chop
December 11, 2008 2:42 PM | Link to this
Isn’t it funny that people take potshots at Peavy for wanting to jump on the bandwagon of a team that is a true contender?
After all, didn’t Greg Maddux leave the Cubs to sign with the Braves? Didn’t he do that in order to have a chance to win a World Series? I don’t have a problem with Peavy at all. He has a no-trade clause. He wants to win. The Braves lost 90 games last year.
What’s the big deal?
Oh, it’s the fact that some fans can’t be objective. Well, I find that being a fan is a hell of a lot easier if I’m not thinking of my teams on some fanatically strange par with my religion or country. I want the Braves to succeed. However, I will not let my wants destroy any good judgment I might have. Until I’m being paid big money by the Braves to follow the company line, I ain’t gonna follow the company line.
(End of mini-rant.)
By Eric from MO
December 11, 2008 2:42 PM | Link to this
Nocturnal Owl what are you talking about. Yeah, he was mishandled. So he was never going to do anything here. That is not Frank Wren’s fault. He made a move to help bridge the gap for our young centerfielders and for whatever reason Devine wasnt going to help us.
By rammerjammer
December 11, 2008 2:44 PM | Link to this
GermanBravesFan, Ja, mein freund!
By DAP
December 11, 2008 2:45 PM | Link to this
how about the nats going after tex? 8 years $160mil offer. good for them, but they are probably in a more frustrating position than the braves are when it comes to signing free agents. i would be shocked if he signed with them.
By GermanBravesFan
December 11, 2008 2:46 PM | Link to this
Did Peavy ever say that he does NOT want to pitch for the Braves???? N8: sorry, I thought you had referred to the fact that the Braves won’t sign a “Mercedes” this year… ;-)
By Vol
December 11, 2008 2:47 PM | Link to this
I still wonder if you just try and pick up the scraps after the big teams spend their money. A lot of teams really don’t have cash to spend and maybe we can take advantage at that second tier level.
This has been a frustrating week, but not as bad as if we heard news that we got AJ at something like 5/$90MM.
By Don't Trade Franceour, Sheesh
December 11, 2008 2:47 PM | Link to this
Uhhh…”Full Moon” Randy Wolf hasn’t pitched 200 innings since 2003, and the most he has pitched in a season since then is 136.
For that risk, might as well sign Ben “Don’t Forget to Change the” Sheets.
By Neon Deion
December 11, 2008 2:50 PM | Link to this
Where McCarver at?
By John
December 11, 2008 2:50 PM | Link to this
Wait…….whats so BAD about our team any way????
I swear you people are stupid.
Did the Rays not just get to the World Series?? What is there damn payroll????? They won with YOUNG pitching not over priced FA. Let the Yankees have all these guys…..they WILL break down.
We HAVE a great farm system with young arms. Let these guys pitch! We MUST resign Smoltz and Glavine as mentors for these young guys.
Dont get my wrong id love to land AJ but there is NEVER any hope of fighting the damn Yankees…..but the we WILL have the last laugh when they AGAIN dont win World Series with there huge pay roll.
All we need is a FA power bat in the outfield.
Oh and Peavy……he says he wants to win….but i swear that guy isnt the type to carry a team on its back like Smoltz!
By McFann O –[zzz]
December 11, 2008 2:50 PM | Link to this
Stovetop—
Who do you think was better last year—Saltalamacchia or Kotchman? Salty or McCann?
Just sayin’…
By Salty
December 11, 2008 2:53 PM | Link to this
I’ll clear it up for you: you don’t have to be the sharpest tool in the shed to be a stud pitcher.
Isn’t that Chuck James’ view…minus the stud? LOL!
By Bubdylan
December 11, 2008 2:55 PM | Link to this
Chop-Chop, I think that a few of us who have zero problem with Peavy not wanting to pitch for a 90-loss team, do have a little problem with him including us on his first list, thus tying up Wren in a dead-end deal for six weeks.
If that’s what happened.
By brAves Sucios
December 11, 2008 3:02 PM | Link to this
Sri: I think people are blaming Towers over the Peavy deal because it’s becoming more and more apparent that he’s asking for a lot more top prospects from any potential trade partner than Peavy is worth, and this after basically suggesting he HAD to cut that salary from his payroll. It has seemed, in both the Braves and the Cubs rumors, like every time the two sides come close to an agreement Towers asks for another, bigger piece. At least that’s the impression I’ve gotten, and from how terrible the guy seems to be at knowing what he’s holding and the other guys’ hand, I’d love to take him on at a game of poker. And I suck at cards.
By Tim McCarver
December 11, 2008 3:02 PM | Link to this
You’re a real man, Deion. A real man.
By Shawn B
December 11, 2008 3:06 PM | Link to this
SALTY- LMAO, that was good, thanks for the moment of laughter
By PeT BulL
December 11, 2008 3:08 PM | Link to this
Wait…….whats so BAD about our team any way????
Your right, they just might surprise some people. I say ride with what we have.
By BravesFanInRockies
December 11, 2008 3:09 PM | Link to this
I’m not Wolf’s agent or anything (though it would be nice …), just saying that he’s more likely than Glavine to be a dependable and effective starter and he won’t cost you Oliver Perez or Jon Garland money + years.
In fact, I’d rather have him than Garland and perhaps Perez, simply because Ollie is so inconsistent.
He’ll give you 30 starts, 180 innings, 150 K, 4.3 ERA.
For less than 75% of what you’d pay Lowe or AJ (or Pettite?) —even if you could get them.
By Nate
December 11, 2008 3:10 PM | Link to this
Everyone is forgetting about Glavine. No one on here is mentioning him as part of the 2009 rotation. Both Glavine and Smoltz are gonna want to pitch next year. Neither will want to end their careers on a sour note like 2008. Assuming Glavine wants to pitch I can’t see the Braves turning him away. So realistically what kind of year could we expect out of Glavine. Could he make 25-30 starts and eat 180 innings with an ERA of 4.50, or is that being too optimistic?
By rammerjammer
December 11, 2008 3:10 PM | Link to this
Bubdylan,
One thing we KNOW…Atlanta was on Peavy’s list of teams to whom he’d accept a trade. So I think it was Kevin Towers’ penetration anxiety that cost us (and the Cubs) a very good pitcher.
By Lew
December 11, 2008 3:10 PM | Link to this
nique-Dude (I’m assuming), what mistakes are you talking about? How can you consider Peavy’s not wanting to waive his non trade to Atlanta a mistake (at least on Atlanta’s part)? How can you consider that not signing Burnett because we would have refused matching (or exceeding) a totally unreasonable amount of $$$$ a mistake? Do you think that maybe, just maybe, it’s you who are being a bit unreasonable here?
Again, I ask-what exactly would YOU have done in Wren’s place? Hire Hookers to convince Peavy that Atlanta is a good place to be? Maybe hold his family hostage til he signs with us (and gives up his no trade clause)? Would you pull a Yankees deal and offer Burnett a 6 year, $140 million contract just because you knew you’d be the winning bidder? You seriously need a reality check.
Chuck is Solid-Yeah, there’s a good chance they’ll forgive you, but then again, I can’t guarantee that the Pope doesn’t show up and start blogging here. I don’t give much for your chances were that to happen.
All I’ve heard here on this blog for four years now is that we never develop our own pitching or, if we do, we then trade them away. Well, I got news for some of you-Tommy Hanson is the first real Stud Potential starter that the Braves have developed for years-maybe since the run began-and now some want to trade him. You’ve got to at least give this kid a chance to pitch in Atlanta. Maybe he’s not all he’s been hyped to be, but he has improved and impressed at every level of the minors and now in the AFL. I really don’t know what the hell more y’all could possibly want or expect. There’s a good reason that Efrim and I have been screaming how good he is since he started Rookie Ball. There’s a reason he’s considered to be untouchable and there’s a reason that Towers would have done the Peavy deal in a heart beat. THE KID IS GOOD. You will be sorry if he is traded and quite pleased if he stays.
c-town Braves Fan-Better Randy Freaking Wolf than Pedro F##king Astacio.
By Frank Wren Supporter
December 11, 2008 3:13 PM | Link to this
Y is everyone so hard on Frank Wren? In the last year, he turned edgar renteria into JJ and gorkys Hernandez, who is one of the top prospects in baseball. He traded Jose Ascanio for Will Ohman and Omar Infante, which was a Flat out steal.
Has anyone thought about the fact that maybe no team is looking to trade a top of the rotation starter. That’s y he had to get Vazquez when he did. He couldn’t afford to miss out on one of the few solid starts on the market this year.
By Chris
December 11, 2008 3:18 PM | Link to this
I’ve been thinking about this upcoming season if we have to go at it as is right now and it doesn’t look too bad.
C-McCan - .300 20-25hr, 90-110 rbi 1b kotchman - .280 15-20 hr, 65-85rbi 2b johnson . 275 15-20 hr, 65-85 rbi, 10-15 sb ss escobar .280 10-15 hr, 65-85 rbi, 10-15 sb 3b chipper .300 25 hr 100 rbi rf francouer .270 15 hr 70 rbi cf anderson/hernandez . 290 5-10 hr, 50-60 rbi, 30sb lf - blanco/diaz - . 280 10-15 hr, 60 rbi
of course there’s schaefer and he could go in any of the of spots and give us .265 15-20 hr, 65 rbi as a rookie.
pitching jurrjens - 15-10 3.90 era or so 190ip vasquez 14-12 4.10 era or so, but about 220ip jo-jo 12-12 4.25 180ip hanson - 10-10 4.00 150 ip Smoltz/Hudson 15-8 3.75 190 ip
Bullpen featuring healthy gonzo, soriano, moylan
Of course there’s a million x factors in this like health - if some of the rookies make the club, the bench, bullpen depth, and how we respond injuries. Also I’m fairly confident at least one move will be made. I’m ok with no major slugging HR threats - if we’ve got a lot of 10-20 hr guys spread out it covers the difference. Especially if we’ve got a lot of speed in the OF and Bobby is willing to let them run.
I guess my point is that looking at this lineup doesn’t make me cringe the way that many of us on the blogs are acting. Tampa just won the AL with a heck of a lot less than this.
By Marty
December 11, 2008 3:18 PM | Link to this
BravesFaninRockies - You make some good points about Wolf. He’s not at all the guy I’d want, but he might be a reasonably good bridge to what we hope is a group of talented young pitchers whom we hope will be pitching effectively in the majors within 2-3 years.
Also, I’d rather have pretty much anyone than Garland, at any price. Garland is just awful. The league hit .303 against him last year, and he allowed the most hits of any pitcher in the league in 2006. Yuck.
By staggerlee
December 11, 2008 3:19 PM | Link to this
Unbelievable!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 29 teams in baseball and Baby Jake can’t find one who satisfies him except the Cubs. Then the Poopdres can’t get it done.He, Towers, and Alderson are a dysfunctional group who are really incompetent. Aren’t they supposed to be professionals?
By Don't Trade Franceour, Sheesh
December 11, 2008 3:20 PM | Link to this
The Braves have got excellent defense all around, especially with Schafer/BLanco/Anderson split between CF and LF. They’ve got Kelly coming into his third full year as a 2B and French Fry coming in slimmer and with a rested ankle.
I think they should get a couple of Braden Looper, Jon Garland guys who throw strikes, don’t walk a lot of guys and have balls put into play. Let’s play some old school, gritty defensive baseball, like the Cardinals did in the late 80s. That way we don’t have to spend a lot to stay competitive.
By N8
December 11, 2008 3:21 PM | Link to this
Marty
I haven’t really calmed down that much.
It just so happens that this is all unfolding like I kinda thought it would.
But I appreciate your comment either way. LOL!
As for Lowe? I agree with you. He’s older and more than likely will not get any better.
But here’s the thing. Wren says he wants to win NOW. Lowe gives us the best shot to do so (other than Peavy). Burnett and Sheets have BIG TIME injury history.
So while, they might be more dominant Ace’s (if healthy) over Lowe, they cannot be deemed more reliable in the short term.
Going after Randy Johnson for a one year deal, isn’t any more “risky” than throwing a bunch of money over 5 years to Burnett, IMO.
And the upside is just as good, if both are healthy, IMO.
GermanBravesFan
“Did Peavy ever say that he does NOT want to pitch for the Braves????”
He hasn’t said a word. So it’s all speculation. But Towers wants a kings ransom for him. And he has made it clear that Peavy wants to be Cub.
“N8: sorry, I thought you had referred to the fact that the Braves won’t sign a “Mercedes” this year… ;-)”
I gather by the smiley face at the end, that this is a sarcastic, funny comment. But I’m not sure I get it. I’m sure I’ll laugh when you explain it to me. But you’ll have to excuse me for being a little slow. LOL!
By Hoosier Aaron
December 11, 2008 3:21 PM | Link to this
Okay - the Yankee rotation on Opening Day could be -
CC, AJ, Wang, Joba maybe Andy P…for that matter it could be ME!
The first four guys will be locked in for a few years.
Seems to me like a good time to call Cashman about some of his pitching “prospects”….Brackman, Sanchez, even Hughes and Kennedy….
Do they need those guys?
By Jim H.
December 11, 2008 3:24 PM | Link to this
Frank Wren Supporter - I totally agree with you. Reading some of these posts makes me crack up with some of the theories people throw around, when in reality none of us (with the posible exception of DOB) really knows what’s going on behind the scenes. Wren is doing a good job. It’s not like he can just go down to “Pitchers Are Us” and buy an ace pitcher off the rack. It’s a way more complicated process than that.
By Chuck James is solid until the 6th!! (Formerly Steve-O)
December 11, 2008 3:24 PM | Link to this
Hey Salty, don’t you dare take a cheap shot at Charles James, don’t forget, when healthy, he is solid until the 6th!!!!!
By N8
December 11, 2008 3:25 PM | Link to this
Lew
GREAT point about Hanson.
I forgot what CD you wanted. I know I was gonna make you a compilation of all the crap I’ve got, but was it specifically the Badlands stuff you were after?
We just closed on a new house this week and are in the process of moving this weekend (nothing like moving in sub-zero temps - quite possible blizzard like conditions this weekend), so I promise I’ll get it mailed to you ASAP.
Even though I know you were kidding when you said you were dropping a hint, I owe you for the cd’s you sent me, so I’ll get on it here soon.
By ncscoots
December 11, 2008 3:34 PM | Link to this
N8 - I’m glad you’ve calmed down some over a couple weeks ago; you’re making some really good points the last couple of days.
Christ, Marty, I was just giving you some props the other day, too. Please don’t tell me I was hasty.
By southga brave
December 11, 2008 3:35 PM | Link to this
Some of you are idiots to think a GM can go to the meeting and come home with the prize just because you want him to. If you are such GREAT GM’s, why are you sitting here on a blog and not the sudden great GM for some organization? Just because you want a guy does not mean you get him. It isn’t like going to the grocery store and buying a steak instead of hamburger. The Yankees are doing what you want Wren to do. The difference is the Yankees have the payroll EVERY year. Do I want the Braves to get Peavy, Burnett and CC? Maybe throw in Manny for a clean-up hittet to back up Chipper, oh by the way get tex while your at it. It isn’t that easy even if you have the payroll. Yes the Barves could spend every dime they have this year and trade all the best prospects to get what you want but, if we have an injury here or there where are we in two years? No payroll and no prospects, equals losing not just this year but for years to come. Is peavy a very good pitcher? Sure he is, but why do you want someone to guide your rotation that doesn’t like your organization and doesn’t want to be here except for the money? I want to win the world series every year too. I would also like to build for the long term with guys that want to be here.
Wren has done what he can with the restraints he has on him. To call him a clown is stupid. He has made some good moves some bad. Tell me a GM that hasn’t made a bad move here and there. Some of his best moves are those he hasn’t made. Don’t judge him to be “stupid” and incompentent until time passes to see the results of trades and signing made or not made. Do we trade the entire farm system for a few years of Peavy? Do we throw out the entire payroll for Dunn? No defense there. If you are going to do that why not go after Manny? Team disruption but he can produce if we are just going to throw out money. My point is it isnt that easy being a GM and getting what you want all the time, ask the Royals. I am sure they would like some of you to run their team the way you think can run the Braves, since you think it is so easy.
So shut up the criticism and support the team. You only know half the details involved anyway.
By Marty
December 11, 2008 3:39 PM | Link to this
nscoots - Hah. Can’t please everyone, I guess. ;)
By N8
December 11, 2008 3:40 PM | Link to this
ncscoots
Now, now. No need to be rude. :-)
By TennesseePaul
December 11, 2008 3:40 PM | Link to this
How can you consider Peavy’s not wanting to waive his non trade to Atlanta a mistake
I guess if it is repeated enough times it is a truth… but as I went through all the reports from this trade, I found that, at the time, the Braves pulled out of the Peavy talks… it wasn’t that the trade was in place and Peavy shot it down… In fact there is a report of Frank Wren stating that he is pulling out of the talks. And it wasn’t until several weeks later that the idea was asserted that Peavy “might not” have approved the trade due to the uncompetitiveness of the Braves. And that assumption had a hard time mixing in with the “no-trade clause” issues.
I have a hard time believing that this was how it actually went down. It’d require Towers granting Wren a window opportunity to save face by saying he is pulling out of the deal when in fact that wasn’t what happened.
So which is it?
- Wren pulled out of the talks when Towers kept asking for too much
- Peavy had no desire to pitch in the NL East with the Braves because they can’t win.
- Peavy didn’t want to be traded to a team that wouldn’t honor his no-trade clause.
I’m going with the first one. It makes the most sense and has another team backing up the sentiment…I suppose if we give it enough time, word will come out that the Cubs had a deal ready to go but Peavy really wasn’t sure about pitching in the cold weather of Chicago.
By Eric from MO
December 11, 2008 3:40 PM | Link to this
Chris”Tampa just won the AL with a heck of a lot less than this.”
I dont know about that. Tampa has alot of really good players. Now if you mean going into the season their players didnt look this good, ok. However, after watching them they are pretty stacked.
Braves fans do have one thing to look forward too. We cant get much worse than last year.lol We at least not really losing much other that Tex.
By Eric from MO
December 11, 2008 3:40 PM | Link to this
Chris”Tampa just won the AL with a heck of a lot less than this.”
I dont know about that. Tampa has alot of really good players. Now if you mean going into the season their players didnt look this good, ok. However, after watching them they are pretty stacked.
Braves fans do have one thing to look forward too. We cant get much worse than last year.lol We at least not really losing much other that Tex.
By Mr J
December 11, 2008 3:40 PM | Link to this
Not to go all “Lou Vales” on everybody, but I’d like to suggest there’s another reason the Braves might want to stay out of this Yankee driven, overheated free-agent market at this time.
If the national (no, world wide) economic slowdown continues, there will be teams who are looking to shed payroll. At this point, reduced revenue is just a conjecture for MLB, not a panicky reality. Like a vulture investor with cash picking through a depressed stock market for bargains, the baseball team with cash reserves could end up getting much more favorable trade terms in July than now.
If we’re close to the lead at that time, then such trades could put us over the top (like McGriff). If not, then we still have out maturing prospects in hand, getting ready for 2010.
By Efrim
December 11, 2008 3:42 PM | Link to this
This isn’t a knock on Frenchy, but I had to post this:
Jason (Atl): How good is Jason Heyward? What kind of numbers do you think he can put up in the majors? How about Madison Bumgarner, is he as good as Clayton Kershaw?
Keith Law: Those are two of the top 20 prospects in the game. Heyward’s going to hit for average and power and get on base while playing a plus right field. (He could probably out-OBP Francoeur right now.) Bumgarner’s behind Kershaw at the same age, but still very high-ceiling.
“He could probably out-OBP Francoeur right now”. Don’t get me wrong, I wish Jeff all the best and hope that one day, him and Heyward play in the same outfield. But I found that amusing.
By mb
December 11, 2008 3:43 PM | Link to this
DOB, This is a GREAT place to come visit in the winter months for baseball fans. Thank You.
Now here are my two cents on what Wren should do, trade Johnson or Escobar, Franceour, JoJo or Morton and a relief pitcher to K.C. for Greinke, great starter, Billy Butler 1B or OF and Teahen 1b/3B/OF. This would give us a better starting pitcher who is young and 2 players who can put up the better numbers than all the hitters we are trading. Plus if Chipper is out we can put Teahen at 3B. Butler and Teahen have more power than Franceour, keep in mind that K.C.’s ballpark is a canyon compared to Turner Field. We would need to pick up a SS from the free agent market if we trade Escobar, O. Cabrera is available and a solid player.
K.C. Wouldn’t need Butler if they get Fraceour, their outfield would be DeJesus, Crisp and Franceour, Guillen would DH and M. Jacobs is at first. Butler is a pure hitter and would be a great addition.
Braves outfield would be Teahen in LF, Butler in RF and whichever young CF they chose, Shafer, Hernandez or Blanco. Another side affect of this deal is our overall salary would remain lower than if we sign Burnett.
I would still want Wren to pursue Wolf or Perez, we need another left handed starter. By the way if Wolf is a .500 pitcher that’s better than JOJO or Morton.
New starting lineup, Greinke, Jurrjens, Vazquez, Wolf, (Smoltz, Hanson, Campillo filling in the 5 spot)
This trade would give the Braves a solid, younger, team. My advice, retire the old and injured. Also, don’t hire any old or injured players. Smoltz is the only exception.
Thanks again DOB.
MB
By Robert (Chipper Is The Best)
December 11, 2008 3:43 PM | Link to this
If I’m Frank Wren I call Towers and make this one final offer. I offer Escobar, B. Jones, Hernandez, Boyer, and Reyes for Peavy and Greene. I ask the Padres to eat at least $3.5 mil of either Peavy’s or Greene’s contract this season. That way Greene replaces Escobar and that would leave the Braves enough cash to make a run at Abreu, Burrell, or Dunn. Yes, the Braves will have to look for a SS in 2010 but since they are obviously playing for 2009 they can worry about 2010 next year. While Greene isn’t anywhere near the dynamic player Escobar is he is a very good defensive SS and can show flashes of offensive brilliance.
By N8
December 11, 2008 3:45 PM | Link to this
Jim H.
Good point. But then he shouldn’t have gotten the hopes up, by stating he was going to do that.
Had Wren said NOTHING about his off-season plans, there would be no expectations. It’s that simple.
If people come to the conclusion that he failed this off-season, it is an opinion he brought upon himself, by opening his mouth about it.
JS NEVER did that.
Granted, he ended up acquiring Maddux instead of Bonds. But what if JS had gone into the 92 off-season by stating that Bonds was his number one target? How about Arod when he signed with Texas? The Braves were allegedly the 2nd highest offer.
JS never once, labeled Arod as a target, publicly. Had he done so, NOT getting Arod would have been considered failure.
In other words, don’t make promises to the fans, you can’t keep.
By David O'Brien
December 11, 2008 3:46 PM | Link to this
Hey, I can assure you all of one thing: Wren and his assistants are busting their tails trying to get something done. Honestly, that’s clear just from talking to agents and other team officials, and a couple of long-timers from the organization who’ve been impressed by how hard the GM is working.
If you get outbid, you get outbid. Look at teams like the Cardinals, in the best baseball city in America, with billionaire owners and a new stadium — and they’re not even making offers as big as the Braves are for players, despite having needs.
I’m just saying, it ain’t easy. If ownership or management gives you a payroll number to work with, you’ve got to be reasonable. You can’t pay A.J. Burnett 20 percent of your payroll, can you? For a 31-year-old who’d never won more than 12 games before this season?
They need him, but they’ve already made a more-than-generous offer. If the Yankees, who have no restrictions, want him bad enough they’re going to get him, if money is the most important thing for A.J. But I don’t know that it is. He might take a little less to not have to pitch in the glare and enormous expectations he’ll encounter every day in NYC. We’ll see soon.
By richbrave
December 11, 2008 3:46 PM | Link to this
DAVID O’BRIEN:
I know the potential of up to 25 mill per for four which I prophasied several weeks ago for BURNETT is sounding less ridiculous all the time, but it doesn’t make me feel any better to say I told you so. I knew we’d have to grossly overpay per year to hold him to a shorter contract.
That fifth year guarantee means BURNETT’s arm has to hold up for two years, much more problematic than for one. The BRAVES have to go all in to secure what they want, and if that’s what it takes so be it.
Your article seems to point to an equivocation of LIBERTY’s resolve to spend “THE” money for BURNETT. HAMPTON certainly makes me leery of an offer of this magnatude for any arm, but if you want to run with the big dogs you have to pay the freight. I do think that 90 for five will do the trick though, and that’s a lot less than 100 for four which of course shouldn’t even be discussed.
By SoWeGa Fanatic
December 11, 2008 3:46 PM | Link to this
Just a reminder, sports fans - Tampa Bay won it all with a team payroll last year of $8.27!
By McFann O –[zzz]
December 11, 2008 3:47 PM | Link to this
Chris—
Like the numbers for my mann, but just one thing:
There are two “n’s”.
; ) Later.
By David O'Brien
December 11, 2008 3:49 PM | Link to this
Alright, headed to ballpark for 2:50 flight. Wren is on it, so maybe we’ll have a press conference in flight, can call in the story and blog on the airphone….
Naah, probably not.
By Salty Dawg
December 11, 2008 3:49 PM | Link to this
12:01pm: Kevin Towers told reporters the proposed Peavy deal with the Cubs is dead. The Cubs pulled out.
Oh, I could barely control the laughter when I read this little gem. My how the tables have turned in just 24 hrs. Seeing Towers get stuck with Peavy and Peavy get stuck in SD for another year would almost be worth the Braves not getting him. Seems like someone (make that two someones) may have overplayed their hands in this whole Peavy fiasco.
By LOL
December 11, 2008 3:49 PM | Link to this
If I’m Frank Wren I call Towers and make this one final offer. I offer Escobar, B. Jones, Hernandez, Boyer, and Reyes for Peavy and Greene. I ask the Padres to eat at least $3.5 mil of either Peavy’s or Greene’s contract this season. That way Greene replaces Escobar
Greene was traded, like over a week ago, to the Cardinals.
By shawn
December 11, 2008 3:49 PM | Link to this
Robert do you even follow baseball? They traded Greene over a week ago…damn don’t post if that is your best.
By StingerSplash
December 11, 2008 3:50 PM | Link to this
In all this troubling news for the Braves, there is one bright spot for the ATL: Feb. 13. Eddie’s Attic. Louris and Olson together again.
By JEB
December 11, 2008 3:51 PM | Link to this
Angels are after Jake Peavy now
By N8
December 11, 2008 3:51 PM | Link to this
southga brave
Good points. But again (see my last post), it’s about delivering what you SAID you would deliver.
My wife decided a few weeks ago that she wanted one of the Kindle online book unit’s available on Amazon for Christmas.
I’ve got the money to order one, but so do another 25 million people, so they aren’t delivering until February, possibly March. Should I tell her that she’ll get one for Christmas, when I don’t know where to find one?
Having the money to buy a free agent, is different than having the surroundings to entice a free agent to take your money.
Wren had to see that coming? Many of us have been questioning it for months. Why on earth would the top free agent pitchers (or batters) want to come to Atlanta? Many stated “Bobby”.
How’s that working out for us, now?
By Patrick (Marietta)
December 11, 2008 3:52 PM | Link to this
Uh, Robert?
The Pads traded Greene to the Cards. A bit late there. ;)
By ArkyTech
December 11, 2008 3:52 PM | Link to this
By Robert (Chipper Is The Best) If I’m Frank Wren I call Towers and make this one final offer. I offer Escobar, B. Jones, Hernandez, Boyer, and Reyes for Peavy and Greene.
That’s going to be tough since Greene was traded to the Cardinals already.
By JEB
December 11, 2008 3:55 PM | Link to this
By Robert (Chipper Is The Best) December 11, 2008 3:43 PM | Link to this If I’m Frank Wren I call Towers and make this one final offer. I offer Escobar, B. Jones, Hernandez, Boyer, and Reyes for Peavy and Greene. I ask the Padres to eat at least $3.5 mil of either Peavy’s or Greene’s contract this season. That way Greene replaces Escobar
Someone please let Robert know that K. Green was trade to the Cardinals……LAST WEEK!
By Will
December 11, 2008 4:00 PM | Link to this
What a great blog, i totally agree, its sad but people dont wanna play for the braves anymore and its that simple. Yesterday i was mad Smoltz might leave, but if he wants one more shot a ring he better leave. I really dont see any way the Braves season isnt already over next year. The worst thing a mediocre team can do is keep trying to compete by making hasty trades, spending money on risky free agents (AJ Burnett will not stay healthy) and depleting their farm system. The braves just need to take their lumps save their money and farm system and they will be back eventually. Why would Abreu, Burrell or Dunn want to come to Atlanta, Turner Field is not desirable to hitters and none of those guys is worth what they are gonna cost.
By Left Field
December 11, 2008 4:02 PM | Link to this
Atl is not waiting for 2010 they want to win in 09.We will sign AJ and trade for Greinke.Goodby Esco,hello Rafie.
By Don't Trade Franceour, Sheesh
December 11, 2008 4:03 PM | Link to this
HEY N8
Had the same problem about the Kindle for my mother…Got her a Sony Reader, they are cheaper, a little thinner and work just as well, if not better. They have a couple different models and the only drawback compared to the Kindle is that you have to download new books on a computer and upload them to the device, as opposed to downloading straight to the reader.
By Original Jon
December 11, 2008 4:05 PM | Link to this
I just realized why Marquis had such a difficult time pitching for Atlanta, he is from New York, lol.
By braves n dawgs
December 11, 2008 4:05 PM | Link to this
DOB: if the Yankees, who have no restrictions, want him bad enough they’re going to get him, if money is the most important thing for A.J. But I don’t know that it is. He might take a little less to not have to pitch in the glare and enormous expectations he’ll encounter every day in NYC
It seems that players like that , in the Scott Boras era, don’t exist anymore, or if they do, they are few and far between. For every one player like Chipper Jones there are 20 guys like Tom Glavine, Mark Teixeira, CC Sabathia, Alex Rodriguez, and very soon AJ Burnette. “Show me the Money!”
By elliwg6
December 11, 2008 4:07 PM | Link to this
I think a trade for Greinke would be great for the Braves. It could be a real turning point in the organization especially if we sign him to an extension in a year or two. My only concern is whether or not Wren is worried from about backlash from the casual fan if Francour is involved. It’s an important concern for the club and an interesting dilemma. I guess we’ll see what happens.
By Prime Time
December 11, 2008 4:07 PM | Link to this
Now that the Cubs are not getting Peavy.
“Hey Peavy who would you rather play for the Padres or Braves”
By ppaddy123
December 11, 2008 4:08 PM | Link to this
By Robert (Chipper Is The Best) December 11, 2008 3:43 PM | Link to this If I’m Frank Wren I call Towers and make this one final offer. I offer Escobar, B. Jones, Hernandez, Boyer, and Reyes for Peavy and Greene. I ask the Padres to eat at least $3.5 mil of either Peavy’s or Greene’s contract this season. That way Greene replaces Escobar and that would leave the Braves enough cash to make a run at Abreu, Burrell, or Dunn. Yes, the Braves will have to look for a SS in 2010 but since they are obviously playing for 2009 they can worry about 2010 next year. While Greene isn’t anywhere near the dynamic player Escobar is he is a very good defensive SS and can show flashes of offensive brilliance.
I think you might want to check with the Cardinals about Greene, since he’s their property
By Original Jon
December 11, 2008 4:08 PM | Link to this
Hey RObert Just incase you werent aware from the 800 million people telling you before this, Greene was traded over a week ago.
By Jon Lovitz
December 11, 2008 4:09 PM | Link to this
He didn’t want to go to the Braves. yeah, that;s the ticket.
Got a three way working with the Cubs. yeah, that’s the ticket.
the braves wouldn’t waive the no trade clause. yeah, that’s the ticket.
the angels are now interested. yeah, that’s the ticket.
the red sox and yankees are interested. yeah, that’s the ticket.
the train has left the station. yeah, that’s the ticket.
By Ericchipper
December 11, 2008 4:09 PM | Link to this
Any talks of signing Gonzo to an extension as well as Huddy if he proves healthy enough coming back?
By SeaAtl
December 11, 2008 4:11 PM | Link to this
DOB - Simple, but GREAT, point about St. Louis. I’ll be as disappointed as anyone if the Braves don’t make another substantial signing or trade this offseason. But there are plenty of other cites in similar situations (or worse).
By raymond
December 11, 2008 4:11 PM | Link to this
It’s bad enough we didn’t get an ace in Vegas, but we can get excited about signing Smoltz and Glavine and a 3rd place finish at best. It’s sad how far the Braves have fallen, if I’m Smoltz I sign somewhere else so I can have one last chance to win because it anit happening here. Use to be they did what it took to win, but now all they do is talk about winning. They are more committed to the bottom line than winning. It must be nice to be a Yankee fan, you may not win the title every year but at least ownership tries it’s best to do so.
By ppaddy123
December 11, 2008 4:12 PM | Link to this
By Left Field December 11, 2008 4:02 PM Atl is not waiting for 2010 they want to win in 09.We will sign AJ and trade for Greinke.Goodby Esco,hello Rafie.
Please pull your head out your A$$………they WILL NOT OUT BID THE YANKEES on Burnett. The Braves do not need to move Escobar.
By Robert (Chipper Is The Best)
December 11, 2008 4:15 PM | Link to this
Sorry, I didn’t realize Greene had been traded. My bad! And yes I follow baseball, smarta**
By Hoosier Aaron
December 11, 2008 4:15 PM | Link to this
DOB
Look at teams like the Cardinals, in the best baseball city in America, with billionaire owners and a new stadium — and they’re not even making offers as big as the Braves are for players, despite having needs.
That was exactly my point from a post yesterday.
There is no player in their right mind that would turn down a REASONABLE offer from the Cardinals to play in New York. The only logical reason is pressure from the MLBPA. They apparently will let you resign with your current team…unless you are Tom Glavine. :^)
That’s why AJ doesn’t sign until CC signs. Lowe doesn’t sign until AJ.
This just give another reason to cheer for the Rays, Blue Jays and Orioles so that Derek Jeter has the same perspective of the World Series that we do.
By Eric from MO
December 11, 2008 4:17 PM | Link to this
Robert Chipper is Best-Green isnt there anymore. Try to keep up.
By Efrim
December 11, 2008 4:18 PM | Link to this
I think a trade for Greinke would be great for the Braves.
If it means Francoeur, Escobar, and two top prospects, than no thanks. To be honest, I’d rather not trade any top prospects at this point. I’m sure many bloggers could care less as long as we get that front-line guy, but it is going to cost dearly.
By Brett (Multiple year contract for Smoltz)
December 11, 2008 4:20 PM | Link to this
Robert, You do not put Brandon Jones in that mix and also just to let you know Greene is gone!
However you were in the right direction as far as trade for Peavy! He is the best pitcher available whether it be free agent or trade (better than CC). Jake Peavy and Brandon Webb may be the two best pitchers in all of baseball right now. We need to make the trade happen for Peavy…. he has no downside! I don’t believe there is any truth to the fact that he does NOT want to play for the Braves, we may not be his first choice but if you do recall we were on the initial list of 6 teams he would play for. MAKE THE PEAVY DEAL HAPPEN!!! Frank Wren needs to suck it up Pride will kill you in this game, make the first move and talk to Towers again!
AJ is not worth it, I think that is a known fact!!! Smoltz has to be a Brave and with Peavy, Smoltz, JJ, Vas, Camp/Hanson we will be a force if not the best in the East as far as starting pitching goes and now with the Mets and there bullpen we might be second best in that category!
Then get a good bat that we can rent for two years at best, before Jason Heyword comes up and crushes the hell out of every ball thrown his way!
Look forward to your feedback!
Go Braves!!
By FEAR
December 11, 2008 4:20 PM | Link to this
WAIT! So now we are BACK in the Peavy talks? That’s what SI.com is reporting?!!! This is getting stupid!
By Thrillhouse44
December 11, 2008 4:20 PM | Link to this
Robert do you even follow baseball? They traded Greene over a week ago…damn don’t post if that is your best. Shawn
Shawn, sit back and read Robert (CITB). You’ll learn a lot from the guy. He made a mistake - show some respect to a long-timer. It’s a blog and it won’t be long before you make a mistake. When you do, Robert (CITB) will have more class than you just showed.
By Shawn B
December 11, 2008 4:20 PM | Link to this
LOL, I might as well jump on the wagon too….. HEY ROBERT, Greene was traded to the Cards over a week ago. You might have to revise that trade proposal.
By ncscoots
December 11, 2008 4:24 PM | Link to this
Robert, the cat is out of the bag: you have an actual life, and are thus not current on every…single…ML trade. Please do not throw this up (the actual life thing) in bloggers’ faces anymore, LOL.
By Anders
December 11, 2008 4:30 PM | Link to this
N8
I hear the Yanks have Kindles coming out their A*******e$!
Sorry, I couldn’t resist.
By trade prospects
December 11, 2008 4:30 PM | Link to this
Who cares about Thomas Hanson and Jason Heyward? Trade them if it means bringing back stud pitchers. Braves need to win now before Bobby Cox and Chipper Jones retire. They NEED TO WIN NOW.
By Bubdylan
December 11, 2008 4:30 PM | Link to this
Robert, Khalil Greene from the Padres? We can’t get him in a deal cuz he’s been traded.
The Padres traded him to the Cards, it’d have to be a three-team deal, cuz the Padres don’t have him anymore. Greene, I mean. The shortstop.
The Padres are reluctant to include players that aren’t on their roster in trades. They can trade players they have. The ones they don’t have, not so much. Greene got traded. Just letting you know, cuz you were like “let’s get Greene.” But he’s already gone. Traded. To the Cardinals. Didn’t you hear about that?
By Lew
December 11, 2008 4:31 PM | Link to this
Nathan-Yeah, it was the Badlands stuff. Don’t stress yourself, Dude, I was just giving you some grief. I know you’ve had lots of stuff going on in recent months. It’s not as if I have no tunes to listen to or anything. I can always listen to Bark At the Moon or Ultimate Sin if I need a Jake E. Lee fix.
By Chuck James is solid until the 6th!! (Formerly Steve-O)
December 11, 2008 4:33 PM | Link to this
We can all whine about the pitching situation but I think that will pan out fine and I trust in Wren’s ability to find some great arm through a trade if AJ doesn’t sign…
I’m more concerned with the right handed power bat and I don’t understand why Pat Burrell has not been offered a decent contract yet..He’s not the best defender but busts his arse on every play that is for sure and as we all can see there is no top notch all around guy available for LF anyway…I think Pat would fit in good with ATL between Chip and Mc with his .380-.400 OBP 30+ HR’s and 30+ 2B’s and 90-100 BB’s …The Phillies gave him a insulting offer and have been after everybody but Pat…I think he can be had at 3/32-35 and I would give him that. Unless Markakis or Maggs can be traded for I like Pat’s right-handed bat in that lineup….
Schafer/Blanco, Yunel, Chipper, Burrell, McCann, Francoeur, Kotchman, KJ
Alot of you will argue that looks weak but I think your reasoning comes from Jeff, who I think will have a solid bounce back year..I think CF needs to be addressed however, but if it had to be that way I could live with it.
Anybody else have any realistic alternatives? Pat won’t cost the bank and will do his thing….In that case ATL still has alot of flexibility to sign Smoltz 1/8, sign Burnett/Sheets/Take on a guy through a trade, sign Ohman, sign Glav to a 1/5 deal, sign Norton and lets ball..
Rotation would be set with depth Bullpen is set with veterans and depth Bench is very solid Lineup is solid
By Mark
December 11, 2008 4:33 PM | Link to this
From Mark Bowman
Braves still not ready to revive Peavy pursuit The fact that the Cubs have ended their pursuit of Jake Peavy doesn’t immediately affect the Braves, who are keeping the current focus on A.J. Burnett. Even if they don’t land Burnett, the Braves won’t even think about renewing their pursuit of Peavy unless the talks are initiated by the Padres, who will no longer find a compensation package that includes Yunel Escobar.
A month ago the Braves were willing to provide the Padres with a package highlighted by Escobar. But because they used Brent Lillibridge to acquire Javier Vazquez last week, they no longer are willing to entertain thoughts of dealing Escobar, who one veteran Braves player considers, “the best shortstop in the National League.”
In their continued attempt to deal Peavy, the Padres may at least attempt to rekindle Atlanta’s interest. But the Braves are still sour about the six-week negotiations they had with the Padres earlier this offseason. The two parties haven’t talked about Peavy since Nov. 13.
Before committing even more time and resources, the Braves will first want a guarantee that Peavy is willing to waive his full no-trade clause to come to Atlanta. Up until this point, every indication was that his primary desire was to eventually land with the Cubs.
By TheCutMan
December 11, 2008 4:35 PM | Link to this
I think what Mr. O’Brien states in his opening comments are what many of us have been both observing and realizing for the past several weeks and months as it relates to the current Braves’ position in this 2008 America, economy, and MLB reality.
First, there’s no fixing stupid. The Yankees are flush with cash and advantage revenue streams, so they’re going to press that advantage until that time when MLB wakes up and insists on a more level playing field, (Ever hear of the NFL?), than currently exists.
Second, we all know of the glory of the ATL and living in this great city and area. A few, like Chippper, have attempted to sell it to others but that fading glory of past division titles is ringing in the eyes and ears of the FA talent and their agents. As Mr. O’Brien points out, that perception has become reality and the short sighted, money grubbing FA types are looking to pack their carpet bags for other ports of call.
Finally, and this is third, the Braves should reinvent themselves by relying on their farm system and youth to reclaim past success. The good news is that this is entirely feasiable and possible.
In the meantime, let the Lords of MLB gluttonly feast themselves into fiscal irresponsibility and wonder what happened when the current economic conditions hit them amidships in 2009.
I’m out.
By ppaddy123
December 11, 2008 4:35 PM | Link to this
Prospects are Future Major League Players, MAYBE! Kyle Davies….can’t miss. Chuck James…….Bulldog. Jo Jo Reyes…..electric stuff. Correct me if I’m wrong, but these are statements that have been made about all these guys. What happened? Reality happened! There are 8-10 ACE STARTERS in MLB We could probably have one of those guys if we trade a “PROSPECT” and Jo Jo Reyes or Charlie Morton. Peavy……$63 MM C.C. Sabathia…….$161 MM You’re kidding me, right?
By Chuck James is solid until the 6th!! (Formerly Steve-O)
December 11, 2008 4:37 PM | Link to this
Robert
I don’t know if anyone caught your proposal but that can’t happen because Greene HAS BEEN TRADED!!! God man, try to keep up, ok?? Don’t you follow baseball?? You didn’t know Khalil Greene was traded man?? God…get a life Robert!
By Chuck James is solid until the 6th!! (Formerly Steve-O)
December 11, 2008 4:38 PM | Link to this
Robert
I don’t know if anyone caught your proposal but that can’t happen because Greene HAS BEEN TRADED!!! God man, try to keep up, ok?? Don’t you follow baseball?? You didn’t know Khalil Greene was traded man?? God…get a life Robert!
By Luv 2 hate me
December 11, 2008 4:42 PM | Link to this
Wow I was just telling my co-worker the same thing in the article. Nobody wants to be a BRAVE these days. Everything is about money plus our pitching program sucks. Nothing like the program that was started in the 90’s. The GM sucks, he’s like a chicken with his head cut off. Letting the farm system go and not getting anything in return. We got a few pitchers in return, some good & some still trying to find their way. The Braves are looking real bad these days. They are making Bobby look real bad. He needs to get out while he can. The direction the team is going is south and that’s not a good thing. I will prey for a playoff season.
By nique
December 11, 2008 4:42 PM | Link to this
Lew,
I don’t buy that Peavy didn’t want to waive his non-trade clause since we were talked about by everyone as the favorites from day 1.
It also doesn’t make sense given the other facts: if that’s what killed the deal, Wren would’ve known very early on and wouldn’t have wasted time having so many conversations with Towers and throwing around Yunel’s name.
So to answer your question, not getting Peavy has been the huge mistake this offseason.
I’d be shocked if another player of Peavy’s caliber (pitcher or hitter) came within the Braves’s reach before the offseason is over.
It’s not a matter of it being 2 months into the offseason, it’s a matter of not landing the YOUNG, AFFORDABLE ACE that we needed.
By keylargo
December 11, 2008 4:43 PM | Link to this
Today I was in Miami on business and I decided to listen to Boog Sciambi’s home station, 790 WAXY, to get a new perspective on baseball.
It was about 2:20 and the host, Jorge Sedano, came on and said Peter Gammons was on live ESPN announcing that Jake Peavy had been traded to the Cubs. I was shocked and hurt that the Braves had let another one get away. After all, Sedano was leading with the story about the Yankees offering Burnette $85 over 5 years.
Then about 2:30, this idiot Sedano comes back from a commercial break and says he was mistaken, that the Cubs were announcing that they were withdrawing from the Peavy trade talks.
I just got in and looked briefly around that time period the blog and saw nothing about this. What was that Jorge Sedano character talking about? Can anyone tell me what Gammons said?
By Steve from OH
December 11, 2008 4:45 PM | Link to this
Hey guys, lay off Robert (CIB)…he’s a longtime blogger, not a onetime poster without a clue.
Lew: Jake E Lee? Nice.
By Serge
December 11, 2008 4:49 PM | Link to this
Wow what an awful blurb by Mark Bowman. The biggest shill in baseball
By ThisIsGonnaHurt
December 11, 2008 4:50 PM | Link to this
Royals just re-acquired Horacio Ramirez. DOB said at 2 PM: *When asked if he left here frustrated about the lack of moves, Wren said, “No. I think we’re optimistic. In the case of A.J., he’s still available and out there. As well as a couple of pitching possibilities that are open to us and if we go into next week, we can discuss.”
(By that he meant, there are a couple of pitchers, one whose team needs to do another it’s consider before the pitcher would be available, and another pitcher the Braves have the framework for a possible deal in place, but just need to agree on players that would go to the other team. Could that be Greinke? Don’t know.)*
Now that they have Ramirez again, could it be that they are willing to part with Greinke? I am only speculating, but what would/should we be willing to give for a relative unknown who could be an ace - though not thoroughly proven yet.
By Gone Viral
December 11, 2008 4:51 PM | Link to this
If “The Cutman” is a Sports Night reference, I love you.
By Nocturnal Owl
December 11, 2008 4:51 PM | Link to this
By Tim Dierkes [December 11 at 3:27pm CST] 3:27pm: MLB.com’s Mark Bowman says the Braves “won’t even think about renewing their pursuit of Peavy unless the talks are initiated by the Padres, who will no longer find a compensation package that includes Yunel Escobar.” Escobar is apparently off the table because the Braves no longer have Brent Lillibridge Nice smallbridge excuse
By AdirondackDave
December 11, 2008 4:51 PM | Link to this
JEB — As I understand it, the Pads don’t want to trade Peavy to the Angels or anybody else in their division. That’s the position of most clubs on major trades. Too easy for the deal to come back and and bite you big-time. But in the end, who knows?
By Lew
December 11, 2008 4:51 PM | Link to this
nique-It is what it is. From all reports that I’ve heard, both from Braves’ and other sources, it was Towers who kept changing the parameters of the deal. I don’t know how you can call that a mistake and especially on Wren’s part. How exactly do you figure it? Do you seriously think that it was because we wouldn’t include Locke or even Flowers? I still contend you need a reality check if you truly believe that to be true. Besides It’s time you moved on and quit obsessing. It sure won’t change anything.
By Bubdylan
December 11, 2008 4:55 PM | Link to this
I will prey for a playoff season. -Luv 2 Hate Me
Who will predator?
Luv2, how close is the following sentence to being the exact thought that went through your head a few minutes ago?
“I’m fixin’ to get on one them blogs and say what’s what about the Braves, that’s a fact…”?
By Marty
December 11, 2008 4:59 PM | Link to this
ppaddy123 - What makes you think that other teams are willing to trade their “ace” starting pitchers? Other than Peavy, I haven’t heard of another who’s available…
nique - If you’re going to persist in the silly belief that the Braves somehow “failed” by not acquiring Peavy thus far, there’s really no point in further discussion, since there is no factual or logical basis for such a conclusion. Assumptions that you have made based on snippets that you read which some other person heard some third party say are just not the ironclad evidence you seem to think that they are.
By Bubdylan
December 11, 2008 4:59 PM | Link to this
Steve from OH (and Robert), if it wasn’t obvious, I was trying to make fun of us bloggers, not Robert. Heck I fall on my face three times a day in here.
By Nick Manning
December 11, 2008 4:59 PM | Link to this
It’s clear the Braves need to drop some loads of money on a player already. He’s going to be overpaid, but that’s the way baseball is now
By BrandonS
December 11, 2008 5:02 PM | Link to this
Braves still not ready to revive Peavy pursuit The fact that the Cubs have ended their pursuit of Jake Peavy doesn’t immediately affect the Braves, who are keeping the current focus on A.J. Burnett. Even if they don’t land Burnett, the Braves won’t even think about renewing their pursuit of Peavy unless the talks are initiated by the Padres, who will no longer find a compensation package that includes Yunel Escobar.
A month ago the Braves were willing to provide the Padres with a package highlighted by Escobar. But because they used Brent Lillibridge to acquire Javier Vazquez last week, they no longer are willing to entertain thoughts of dealing Escobar, who one veteran Braves player considers, “the best shortstop in the National League.”
In their continued attempt to deal Peavy, the Padres may at least attempt to rekindle Atlanta’s interest. But the Braves are still sour about the six-week negotiations they had with the Padres earlier this offseason. The two parties haven’t talked about Peavy since Nov. 13.
Before committing even more time and resources, the Braves will first want a guarantee that Peavy is willing to waive his full no-trade clause to come to Atlanta. Up until this point, every indication was that his primary desire was to eventually land with the Cubs
By nique
December 11, 2008 5:05 PM | Link to this
Lew, me moving on is the one thing you said that I agree with. Until some news involving the Braves (themselves) is reported, this blog has lost my interest.
By Nocturnal Owl
December 11, 2008 5:06 PM | Link to this
Heck I fall on my face three times a day in here. Bubdylan Hah! :) I’m so glad you blog here.
By Anders
December 11, 2008 5:06 PM | Link to this
Cutman
until that time when MLB wakes up and insists on a more level playing field, (Ever hear of the NFL?), than currently exists.
In this new world order that you envision for MLB do you plan on each of our teams playing one game a week that millions and millions of fans will bet on (the key to the NFL’s success) and then watch. You realize that most of the NFL’s revenue is shared TV right’s - right? You starting to see how the NFL model won’t work in MLB?
Now, they could go with a salary cap but that’s a risk because then the big market teams don’t have a business advantage. You realize all these owners are in business together? They want to win, sure. But what they really want is to make money. Lot’s and lot’s of it. The model that exists today is working incredibly well towards this goal.
Meanwhile you can’t blame the players for wanting their fair share. Most people would. There are exceptions like Chipper but that doesn’t make him better than others. Do you really think the Braves held off raising ticket prices or anything like that because Chipper stayed for less? I doubt it.
There’s three tiers of teams. Those that have deep pockets and compete financially at the highest levels. I think we know who they are. There’s mid tier teams. These are teams that want to compete but can’t stay in step financially with the top tier teams. How did MLB take care of these teams? The wild card! You don’t have to spend dollar for dollar to make the playoffs. They created a back door which is lucrative to all.
Then there’s the lowest tier. These teams know they barely have a shot at ever competing and at best it’s a once a decade thing. How did MLB take care of these teams? Revenue sharing. That helps these guys operate why the value of their franchises (their true investment) goes up.
The only change I see coming is the possibility of another wild card team in each league.
I’m not saying there are teams that aren’t trying, what I’m saying is they all knew what they signed up for and no matter how they act towards the Yanks I don’t believe anyone has returned a revenue sharing check to the boys in the Bronx yet.
By JEB
December 11, 2008 5:07 PM | Link to this
By AdirondackDave December 11, 2008 4:51 PM | Link to this JEB — As I understand it, the Pads don’t want to trade Peavy to the Angels or anybody else in their division. That’s the position of most clubs on major trades. Too easy for the deal to come back and and bite you big-time. But in the end, who knows?
The Angels are in the AL WEST, not NL WEST
By GSU-Lee
December 11, 2008 5:09 PM | Link to this
Anybody else feel like this blog was brutally honest? I mean kinda like when you get dumped and you feel even worse because your girlfriend was too honest with you???
I felt better after reading DOB’s comments, and I am less excited about Peavy, even if we did get him, but we are really running out of options. Whatever happens, good or bad, I think Wren must really be wroking hard judging by DOB’s comments so if nothing else we have a GM that is doing his best.
By nolie
December 11, 2008 5:11 PM | Link to this
3.
4.
5.
To me, the more important matter at this stage is solidifying RonRoberts
my guess is that by the second half of the season Campillo will be getting pounded routinely just like the end of last season. Morton might improve IF he can get his head on straight
By brent a.
December 11, 2008 5:11 PM | Link to this
TennPaul,
I appreciate your logical post at 3:40.
Remember, one of the things that might be getting misconstrued in here, is Axelrod’s comments concerning Yunel Escobar being included in a hypothetical deal with the Braves, and how that might impact Peavy’s interest in accepting a trade to the Braves.
At the time, I actually took that comment in a positive light, and here’s how: I felt that Peavy and Axelrod might have actually been working on the Braves behalf, saying, in effect, that they wanted to come to Atlanta, and the Padres better not try and squeeze too much out of the Braves, or they wouldn’t accept the deal. That’s not totally unreasonable, as Peavy would have the final say on whether to accept any deal, so there would be no reason for Towers to beat Frank Wren up for a stockpile of talent, if it ended up leaving the cupboard in Atlanta too bare for Peavy to be willing to accept the deal.
However, in hindsight, people have used that comment and construed it to support the reasoning that Peavy did not want to come to Atlanta at all.
It was after this point, though (after Wren pulled out of talks), that Towers threw in the comments about the no-trade clause.
At the end of the day, there are almost too many comments to completely reconcile. You have tried, and have done a very good job of it. But to do so, one is almost left with having to pick particular comments and say, quite simply, that they are just not true.
Even as I sit here writing this, I find myself deleting entire paragraphs because the conclusions don’t always make sense.
It almost raises more questions than it provides answers, to try and analyze the situation.
What I have constantly found myself asking is this:
If Towers didn’t think Peavy would accept a trade to the Braves, then why did he spend so much time trying to work out a deal with them? Also, if there was an issue about the Braves having to give up too much talent in the deal, and that being a concern for Peavy, then why did Towers try and squeeze in more at the last minute?
I have never believed that these types of negotiations occur completely in a vacuum. In fact, with the extent of the GM/Agent/Player relationship that exists in this day and age, I find it impossible to believe that Towers, Axelrod, and Peavy (to an extent) weren’t all involved in some way, in the negotiation process with the Braves.
Even though, officially, Towers has to ask Peavy to waive his no-trade clause after a trade is agreed upon, to think that Peavy knew nothing about what was going on sounds a little too naive for me.
By GM R
December 11, 2008 5:11 PM | Link to this
Reality check time folks - the Padres were asking too much for Peavy and Burnett would be too much of at risk at the latest asking price (another Hampton in the making). It is also unlikely that either of those guys would have made the Braves a playoff team in 09 - there are still too many question marks. Better to look to the following year - Sheets would now cost less and therefore be less risky than AJ. Make him your key signing. Use 09 to develop promising talent in the bigs. Keep money in the bank for 2010. And remember everyone that at least FW is being honest and really going after guys - not like the annual JS charade of pretending to resign big names but only making cheapskate offers. It took a while to get into this mess, it will take a while to get out of it - don’t plunder the farm - be patient.
By Original Jon
December 11, 2008 5:12 PM | Link to this
BrandonS You really should put the source of where you got that information, otherwise its called plagiarism.
By ppaddy123
December 11, 2008 5:14 PM | Link to this
By Marty December 11, 2008 4:59PM ppaddy123 - What makes you think that other teams are willing to trade their “ace” starting pitchers? Other than Peavy, I haven’t heard of another who’s available
DUH………..I’m pretty sure Peavy is the ONLY ACE PITCHER (8-10 in all MLB) that is going to be available via a trade
By JEB
December 11, 2008 5:15 PM | Link to this
3:34 p.m. — Official: Angels to go after Peavy
The Los Angeles Angels will attempt to take advantage of the breakdown in San Diego’s negotiations with the Chicago Cubs over a deal involving Padres ace right-hander Jake Peavy.
According to an Angels’ official, the club has already put together a package for the Padres to consider in return for Peavy. It will take more than agreeing on players for a deal to be worked out. Peavy must approve any trade, and he has indicated a desire to stay in the National League.
Going to the Angels would cause a minimum of disruption in Peavy’s life. He could commute to Anaheim from his new home in the San Diego area. —
By TennesseePaul
December 11, 2008 5:18 PM | Link to this
Agree with Lew on his 4:51 post. The Braves not aqcuiring Peavy could not be spun as a mistake by Wren. Or a failure by Wren. Wren over paying either in prospects or dollars for a particular player could be spun as a mistake. But it’s impossible to say refusing to over pay is a mistake.
Wren’s off-season will be judged as a success or a failure simply based on his stated objective. Should he fail to meet that objective, he will be a failure. But there are many routes to that objective. And, unfortunately for Efrim’s health, it will require dealing prospects. But, take solace that the prospects dealt will not be Heyward and Hanson.
By Boog
December 11, 2008 5:18 PM | Link to this
Your points are exactly why MLB is dying. It’s a complete joke. Every professional sport has a salary cap except MLB. All teams do is develop players for the damn yankees to overpay and steal away. I use to love MLB and the Braves …now I could care less. I don’t want the Braves to try and out spend the yankees. I want baseball to have a level playing field. It’s a joke and I will never pay to see a MLB game.
By BravesFan79
December 11, 2008 5:19 PM | Link to this
Wow this article was depressing, but honestly i saw this coming YEARS ago when cheap azz time warner took over. And things just got worse when TBS decided America just doesn’t get enough Red Sox and Yankees games.
I wonder if Ted buys the Braves back, if he will somehow get control of TBS again and restore some sanity!?
But in 5 years, i see us being owned by Ted or Author Blank, and the Braves being, once again, the Yankees of the south!
But for now, i just wanna see us do everything possible to get to see Smoltz ONE more time in the postseason!
And the Braves are dumb for not offering Smoltz a 2 mill or so contract as a reliever + incentives months ago!
Now Smoltz will command closer to a 10 million contract because it will be driven up by Northern teams. (if he goes to the Mets or Sox, it will be the biggest Braves blunder since letting Glavine go to the Mets, and the offseason will of been a Disaster!
And even tho i heard the Cubs are out of the Peavy talks, im not excited about trading Escobar for a non big game pitcher like Peavy. ( i remember him loosing more games in the Division Series than winning)
But the thought of a overhyped Burnett dosent excite me either. You want a TRUE available ace thats worth trading a talent like Escobar for….. Roy Halladay! Hes the Smoltz (90’s version) of the AL. Just imagine if he had a chance to prove himself in the playoffs!
Maybe , just maybe….. a rotation of JJ, Smoltz, Hanson, Vasquez, Campillo, and Glavine would perform better than peoples expectations.
Only works given that Smoltz stays healthy, and Bobby dosent pull a stupid move with Hanson and mess up like he did with Escobar. (you know, bring him up AFTER the team goes in a big slump because of injuries)
By Marty
December 11, 2008 5:19 PM | Link to this
ppaddy123 - Ok, so what did you mean by this:
We could probably have one of those guys if we trade a “PROSPECT” and Jo Jo Reyes or Charlie Morton.
…given that there’s absolutely no evidence that the Padres would have traded Peavy to us if we had only included “a PROSPET and Jo Jo Reyes or Charlie Morton”?
By AGTfan
December 11, 2008 5:20 PM | Link to this
I am notifying the New York Yankees that GM, Ford, and Chrysler are excellent pitchers and are only looking for a few billion each. Now that I’ve solved the nations economic problems, I’ll start looking at the Braves.
The more I read the more I get to thinking that suffering through a year of letting the youngsters grow and not making a major trade isn’t a bad idea.
By Bubdylan
December 11, 2008 5:21 PM | Link to this
Owl Thanks, that is appreciated.
By flange1
December 11, 2008 5:21 PM | Link to this
Hey Anders,
You have to be smiling after the JJ Putz trade….
WHAT A STEAL!
If the Mets get a decent starter (Keith Law sees them getting D Lowe) they are the team to beat in the NL East.
Just don’t let Omar bite on Jason Marquis….
By Eric from MO
December 11, 2008 5:22 PM | Link to this
Ppaddy-99% of the time I agree with your 4:35 post. Thats why I am not concerned about the Vazquez trade or most trades. However, there are a few exceptions and I think Hanson I believe is one of those exceptions. None of the pitchers you mentioned ever dominated like Hanson has. I think there is a good chance in 3 years if handled right him and Jair could both be one of those 8 or 10 guys but yes normally I agree with that.
By Lew
December 11, 2008 5:24 PM | Link to this
nique-Not trying to drive you away Dude. It’s just the way it is this time of year. Like Tom Petty says-The waiting is the hardest part.
By AGTfan
December 11, 2008 5:24 PM | Link to this
Anders The only way a salary cap would actually work in baseball is if it included a salary ceiling and a salary floor. I’m opposed to salary caps on principal, but the Yankees go a long way to changing my mind.
By LivininAL
December 11, 2008 5:25 PM | Link to this
Gawd Im tired of hearing the Peavy thing..Towers reminds me of a big old fart..lot of noise for 6 weeks/ still stinks and has not done s*t..
By Bubdylan
December 11, 2008 5:30 PM | Link to this
Marty, I believe a Prospet can predict the future, though often with a lisp.
By AdirondackDave
December 11, 2008 5:31 PM | Link to this
JEB - Ouch, my bad. Don’t get to be 72, that’s what happens.
By nolie
December 11, 2008 5:32 PM | Link to this
point that he is every Atlanta Braves fan beloved idol, so how about ya relax CJISUT6
man whats with that name-change? and no he ain’t every Braves fan’s beloved idol.
By TennesseePaul
December 11, 2008 5:33 PM | Link to this
Gorkys vs Schafer through the age of 20…
I was on the fence about Gorkys over Schafer until I started really going through this… I like Gorkys more now. Schafer has his promise and power, but Gorkys has his consistency and could acquire the power with age… he is passing the XBH+BB-SO test just fine. Schafer is landing in the red on that one. But Schafer is closer… and he didn’t do too bad last season.
By flange1
December 11, 2008 5:34 PM | Link to this
How about another thought?
I have been pulling for the Braves to trade for Peavy and or sign AJ like most of us, but I would also love to see some of our kids pitch in the majors too.
If you”push” it, one could see our current rotation as
Now if Smoltz were to come back healthy and able to start, you could revise the rotation to:
I like JJJ at 3 and Javy at 4. Also like Morton at 5.
Hanson will probably be ready by the all star break and Hudson might be ready by July/August.
SO if Smoltz can pitch, you need a pitcher (granted a number 1) for 1/2 the season.
Why not look at Sheets for a 2 year deal or Randy Johnson for a 1 year deal with the understanding that you will give them rest later in the year when Hanson and or Hudson is able to come back and help?
The advantages to this are that you are spending less money and committing to less years, you are showing some faith in your younger guys and putting some pressure on them to perform and you give the team a shot in 2009 without trading away prospects.
You could with a similar move, sign Ken Griffey Jr to platoon in LF with Matt Diaz and pray that Frenchy turns it around.
Keep all of the kids, trade away some “extra pieces” like G Blanco and A Lewrew for whatever you can get and lets build a team that can play well in 2009, and contend in 2010.
By Eric from MO
December 11, 2008 5:36 PM | Link to this
First Robert makes a dumb comment, then AdirondackDave tops it. Wow, guess you dont watch alot of baseball. I understand Roberts mistake, he just missed a week but AdirondackDave may want to pay a little more attention.
By BravesFanInRockies
December 11, 2008 5:37 PM | Link to this
Anders,
Much to agree with in your 5:06, as with AGTfan’s 5:24.
If MLB required the teams to spend their revenue sharing money on their teams, rather than pocketing it, fans would have less reason to complain about the financial inequities. Good front offices would field solid teams. Lousy ones could have an open line of credit and they’d still be awful.
You wouldn’t have to mandate that every team spend every dollar annually, but perhaps do so on an average basis, say every three years. This would allow a club in rebuilding mode to save up one year and then spend like bandits the next.
One thing that really frosts fans is when a team (Pittsburgh) collects major revenue sharing dollars and then doesn’t spend them, especially after getting a new stadium on the taxpayer’s dime.
By nolie
December 11, 2008 5:39 PM | Link to this
Geez. I thought the blog whining during the season was bad, but this winter of discontent seems even worse. scoots
cathartic release and all that. some people are never happier than when they have something to be unhappy about. it’s why God invented the Caps lock key
By ChopChopHipHop
December 11, 2008 5:41 PM | Link to this
I will say a couple things about Jake Peavy. First, he’s not a “big game” pitcher. I don’t know one single “big game” he’s pitched in. San Diego hasn’t been very good since he’s been with them. Secondly, he may be one heck of a pitcher, but not very good for the team. He comes across as a primadonna. The way this deal should have worked is that he gives Kevin Towers a list of teams he’ll play for and then butt out. Who is he to question who the Braves are giving up for him? Why would Kevin Towers be making him aware of that? Third, it appears that he only wants to pitch for a first place team and not be a part of a team that is rebuilding. He doesn’t want to be the building block, he want to be the finishing touch.
By brent a.
December 11, 2008 5:43 PM | Link to this
To look at things positively …
The Braves are clearly not one of MLB’s have-nots. We just aren’t right at the top anymore.
However, we do once again have a pretty good farm system, and we’ve got a few, nice young players, McCann, Johnson, Escobar, Kotchman, (Francoeur) to help build around, as we develop our young talent (Schafer, Gorkys Hernandez, Hanson, etc.) and get them Major league ready.
Because of our increasing payroll capacity, as well as the flexibility we have going forward, if we can develop a nice young nucleus that is truly competitive, then we should have the money to lock up our young talent going forward.
Losing key players (Maddux, Millwood, Sheffield, Drew, etc.) has been as big a part of the problem over the last 5 years, or so, as not being able to attract front-line talent.
If we can reverse that trend alone, it could help solve the other problem that we are now seeing, which is the inability to get quality guys to sign on the dotted line, as they pursue bigger dollars elsewhere.
We didn’t get into this hole overnight, and it may take some time to get out of it. No shame in that.
By richbrave
December 11, 2008 5:46 PM | Link to this
DID I just see the NATIONALS offer TEIXEIRA 160 mill over 8 guaranteed.? Oh goody. We’ll see lots of TEX if that happens.
By Left Field
December 11, 2008 5:47 PM | Link to this
ppaddy123,You have a wright to a openion there pp just need to learn some manners.
By TennesseePaul
December 11, 2008 5:48 PM | Link to this
brent a.: You make some good points. I never thought of the Yunel in the sense of contradicting Towers objectives. And with the closer relationship of Axelrod and Towers it isn’t too far fetch to think of it that way. Perhaps Peavy didn’t want to go to the Braves if it ment Towers robbing the Braves blind. But it obviously had no impact on Towers’ objectives as he kept upping the cost. So I find it hard to believe that the true reason the deal fell apart was due to the wishes of Peavy. I think it went down just as Wren stated: That the Braves pulled out of the deal. Not that Peavy nixed it for any one of the many reasons given after Wren issued his statement.
I’m curious as to what other deals Wren might have lined up. Apparently the next week will be pretty interesting. That’s good to know. That’ll lead it up to Christmas, and from there we get the Smoltz/Glavine reports and then Pitchers and Catchers report, Spring Training and then Baseball. That’s a nice full off-season. At least Wren isn’t failing in this department.
By ppaddy123
December 11, 2008 5:48 PM | Link to this
By Eric from MO December 11, 2008 5:22 PM
Ppaddy-99% of the time I agree with your 4:35 post. Thats why I am not concerned about the Vazquez trade or most trades. However, there are a few exceptions and I think Hanson I believe is one of those exceptions. None of the pitchers you mentioned ever dominated like Hanson has. I think there is a good chance in 3 years if handled right him and Jair could both be one of those 8 or 10 guys but yes normally I agree with that.
Really?……….Kyle Davies 1st MLB start he absolutely dominated the Red Sox. Where is he today? Who has Hanson dominated? A & AA “PROSPECTS”
By Marty
December 11, 2008 5:49 PM | Link to this
TennesseePaul - Gorkys is still very young and appears to have a lot of tools/talent, but I am a bit concerned about the sharp drop in SB he saw this year at Myrtle Beach — only 20 steals in 100 games compared to 54 in 124 games in A-ball and 20 in 50 games in Rookie ball. His rate of success at stealing bases has been exactly the same each season, though, so maybe it’s not a big issue.
All the same, given that Myrtle Beach has been referred to as the hardest place to hit in all of professional baseball, his line of .264/.348/.387 at age 20 still seems pretty good. He may not end up being a CF in the majors, though, given his low fielding percentage. Not having seen him in person, though, and realizing that he’s still just 20, that’s tough to say.
By Eric from MO
December 11, 2008 5:49 PM | Link to this
Marty I think Ppaddy was talking about Hanson. Which I already stated IMO I think that would be a bad idea.
By Original Jon
December 11, 2008 5:49 PM | Link to this
Hey DOB Hypothetically speaking here, but what would happen say the Braves were able to get their Ace or #1 pitcher? And John Smoltz was able to pitch like he had before and JJJ was having another good year, Vazquez was doing well and Hanson or Morton were tearing it up? Hanson and Morton were tearing it up so bad that you wouldnt think about sending them down. What happens in that scenario when Hudson comes back later in the year? Who gets dropped?
By ppaddy123
December 11, 2008 5:50 PM | Link to this
Marty Jake Peavy is “one” of those 8-10 Ace Starters
By bill
December 11, 2008 5:52 PM | Link to this
Original Jon, Wouldn’t that be a fun problem to have? We can only hope.
By nolie
December 11, 2008 5:52 PM | Link to this
Just remember…Hank and Chipper were prospects once too. Rico Carty
and so were Brad Komminsk,Ryan Langerhaus, George Lombard,Thornton,Helms,Marte,Betemit,etc etc etc. actually about 99 of those for every one of yours. Just because they’re young and had a good year or two in the minors doesn’t mean they are gonna come up and save the franchise. Prospect-hugger. LOL
By ppaddy123
December 11, 2008 5:55 PM | Link to this
By Left Field December 11, 2008 5:47 PM
ppaddy123,You have a wright to a openion there pp just need to learn some manners.
I’ll learn manners when you learn to spell
By Optimistoff the wall
December 11, 2008 5:58 PM | Link to this
Smoltz, Glavine Jurrjens, Vasquez, Morton, Reyes, James and no injuries. Braves win!
By Optimistoff the wall
December 11, 2008 5:58 PM | Link to this
Smoltz, Glavine Jurrjens, Vasquez, Morton, Reyes, James and no injuries. Braves win!
By brent a.
December 11, 2008 6:01 PM | Link to this
I’m not sure if anyone has mentioned this yet; but,
what about as opposed to a salary cap, having a maximum contract, and put players on a sliding scale?
Meaning, after so many years of a service, a player qualifies for “$x”, maximum contract.
Also, perhaps give greater salary flexibility/capacity to the player’s existing team, so there might be some additional incentive to stay put.
Essentially, it uses part of the system the NBA uses; however, it doesn’t put an over-all max on what teams can spend; but rather, it prevents the Yankees from simply outbidding everyone for a player they want.
Instead, the Braves and Yankees can hypothetically offer AJ Burnett the exact same deal (if both are willing to offer the max), and he allows other factors (location, team make-up, etc.) to weigh in more heavily than simply guaranteed money.
Separately, people can cry “capitalism”, all they want, but to call what the Yankees do, simply capitalism, ignores the fact that the Yankees operate within the parameters of Major League Baseball.
Ever wonder why just 11 years ago, there were 6 major accounting firms, and now there are 4? (That’s just one of many examples, I could use banks, car companies, oil companies, restaurants, etc.)
Yes, Arthur Anderson went “ka-boom”, but there has also been consolidation. In true capitalism, the weak go out of business. Someone more efficient absorbs all their assets (not just employees), and puts them to better use.
If the Yankees were playing in the real world, then they would have put the Kansas City Royals out of business by now.
Bud Selig tried to close down the Twins and the Expos, but he wasn’t allowed to do so. If this was true capitalism, then the Yankees could have simply purchased the teams, rather than just cherry - pick their players.
But again, the Yankees play within a league, not on their own. Take away MLB, and what are the New York Yankees?
On the flip-side, take away the New York Yankees, and what is Major League Baseball?
It’s a nasty game, where the Yankees are in the best position, but everyone else gets rich too, so who really complains?
Not the owners. Not the players. Just the fans and the media.
Who is the fool?
By Original Jon
December 11, 2008 6:01 PM | Link to this
bill that would be a great problem to have, but I am pretty sure the answer would be to either send the young guys down to AAA or the Bullpen.
By Steve from OH
December 11, 2008 6:02 PM | Link to this
10Paul:
Those numbers are skewed by Schafer’s first 500 PA’s in the minors…his age 18 & 19 seasons. Not saying you should ignore those, but he did much better between Rome and hi-A Myrtle Beach (an impossible hitter’s park) with a line of .312/.374/.513 in his age 20 season. This season, he posted a very respectable .269/.378/.471 line…he has shown, to me, in the last two seasons that he’s a consistently good OBP guy with a great SLG potential (well, better than Blanco/Anderson anyway). He’s put up great numbers at higher levels, so I’m willing to place less of a weight on his earlier struggles. That’s just my opinion though.
Also, don’t discount his defense he has plus range, a plus glove, and a plus plus arm, based on everything I’ve read about him (never seen him in person, but the scouts rave about his defense, and his throwing arm in particular).
NOT to say that Gorkys isn’t better or won’t be better by ANY stretch of the imagination. I’m just going to reserve judgment on him until he shows that he can hit for power on a consistent basis, although the park at Myrtle Beach may have had a bit of an effect on his power. He’s also a great defender. I can’t wait to see what Baseball America has to say about him. I’m just going to give my personal nod to Schafer because he’s been pretty impressive at higher levels and has a nice scouting report to go along with it. I hope he’s our opening day CF starter.
By GSU-Lee
December 11, 2008 6:04 PM | Link to this
To all, I have a friend who played high school ball against Frecnhy (remember when he hit that bomb for Parkview that gets played on tv? this guy was playing shortstop on the opposing team). This sounds dumb, so FWIW, he is friends with a few of the players, including Hudson, and while they were supposedly having dinner Hudson told him there was no way he would pitch this season, thought he would be out. I understand the noted skepticism that comes from a post like this, but like I said for what it is worth. I can vouge for this guy, I mean I know he actually has ties to some players, but i don’t know how close they are.
By ppaddy123
December 11, 2008 6:06 PM | Link to this
Oh and for what it’s worth……where Mark Teixeira is concerned…….after his weak start last year when Chipper Jones was tearing the cover off the ball and carrying a near 500 OBP……..there is no way I would pay him the money that’s being thrown around in rumor central. We have all seen 1st hand; the guy gets his numbers when winning big or loosing big. there’s nothing “clutch” about him.
By kirkinga
December 11, 2008 6:11 PM | Link to this
ppaddy123, you are correct about the hype that accompanied all the pitchers you listed. You forgot to add Myer, Harrison, and Lerew as well.
Truth is, only the loss of Wainwright is regrettable.
For those who belief the Braves absolutely must have another ace(we have Smoltz, Hudson(out for the season), and JJ might be an ace), then you should be calling for the Braves to trade Hanson and get the Peavy deal done.
It seems at this point that Hanson is the price for a “true ace”, how many are willing to pay?
If you’re not willing then you have no room to place blame on Wren for not doing something you don’t support anyway.
By AdirondackDave
December 11, 2008 6:13 PM | Link to this
Eric from Mo — Unless you’ve had some senior moments of your own, you might reign in that criticism a bit. Then, I guess that is what some blogs seem to be coming down to, slice and dice.
By Epinephrine
December 11, 2008 6:15 PM | Link to this
I would just like to say, thanks DOB for your reporting on these meetings.
Over the last week, some of the reports filed by Ken Rosenthal and ESPN have been just absurd. They were posting unverified rumors with no basis in fact that ended up being comically wrong.
Sabean’s rant was amusing, but the man has a valid point about the reporting during the meetings.
Through all that, both DOB and Bowman were consistent, had sources that turned out accurate, and never got carried away in the absurdity. So a job well done I would say.
Also, I don’t know how anyone could be dissatisfied with Wren so far. The guy has been great. He has a clear plan, he hasn’t overpaid, and he’s made good acquisitions (Yates for Redmond, and obviously JJJ and Gorkys for Edgar).
By Braveheart
December 11, 2008 6:17 PM | Link to this
As World Series champions, the Philadelphia Phillies have earned the right to flaunt such status. Pitcher Cole Hamels might have gone a little overboard, and at the expense of the team’s bitter rival, no less.
In an interview on New York sports talk station WFAN on Thursday, Hamels, the World Series MVP, responded in the affirmative when asked if he thought the Mets were “choke artists.”
“Last year and this year I think we did believe that [they were choke artists],” Hamels told the station, alluding to the Phillies winning the NL East in 2008 and ‘07, in part, with the help of back-to-back September collapses by New York. “Three years ago we didn’t because they smoked everybody, and I think we all thought they were going to win it all. Unfortunately that didn’t happen.”
The Mets won 97 games and the NL East title in 2006 but lost to the Cardinals in the NL Championship Series in seven games.
“But, yeah, that’s kind of what we believed and I think we’re always going to believe that until they prove us wrong,” Hamels said. “For the past two years they’ve been choke artists.”
By BravesFanInRockies
December 11, 2008 6:26 PM | Link to this
richbrave
RE: Tex — I heard Jayson Stark say this morning that the Tex sigining is going to be a spectacle.
He said something to the effect that Tex has followed the Boras playbook to the letter, and that Boras expects his clients to always sign with the highest bidder, whoever that may be.
So whoever waves the most dollars — the Nats? the O’s? — is most likely to land him, even if the Yanks, Angels or BoSox make a slightly lower but still astronomical offer.
By Couch Tater
December 11, 2008 6:28 PM | Link to this
uh… Now the Angels. I believe old Kevin and Barry have had their names in the media every day of the off-season. They are selling more than Peavy.
By kirkinga
December 11, 2008 6:28 PM | Link to this
The Braves are clearly not one of MLB’s have-nots. We just aren’t right at the top anymore. brent a.
Exactly! The Braves 90-loss season was due more to health than the lack of talent. Sure Frenchie was horrible, KJ was streaky, and LF was a giant void. But the loss of 4/5’s of our rotation as well as the loss of the 3 late innings guys is the real culprit.
The Braves are in no position to turn their nose up at any winning pitcher they can find to eat some innings.
We are a better team now than the one that finished the season.
Smoltz will be back, Moylan and Soriano at some point too. Gonzo will be healthy for the full season. We’ve added one rotation stabilizing pitcher who is likely to finish above .500 for the season. Last year we only had one guy that pitched alot of innings and won more than he lost.
The offseason isn’t complete yet. We are a better team already. Wren has told us he has moves in play to further address needs.
I’m excited for the season to start. I still want to see a run producing bat and at least someone as good as JV added to the rotation. With Smoltz and maybe Glavine back, we’ll be a better team going into this season than last season.
Get. Excited. People.!!
By Eric from MO
December 11, 2008 6:29 PM | Link to this
Ppaddy Kyle only pitched 5 innings his first start. You dont judge someone over one game. You have to look at their control and stuff and Hanson’s much better
By LivininAL
December 11, 2008 6:32 PM | Link to this
My favorite teams..1.Braves 2.Anyone playing against the Yankees
By Eric from MO
December 11, 2008 6:33 PM | Link to this
Ppaddy Davies never had such a dominating stretch at any level as Hansan had this year during the minors and AFL. Just because he hasnt been promoted yet doesnt mean he wont be any good. Try to find one ace who was never a prospect. Like I said I normally agree with you but you have to be intelligent about it and when you have an ace in the making you dont get rid of him. Seriously why do you think Towers would rather have him than a proven shortstop because he knows he is going to be lights out.
By B.S. Police
December 11, 2008 6:40 PM | Link to this
Those numbers are skewed by Schafer’s first 500 PA’s in the minors…his age 18 & 19 seasons. Not saying you should ignore those, but he did much better between Rome and hi-A Myrtle Beach (an impossible hitter’s park) with a line of .312/.374/.513 in his age 20 season.…………..Steve from OH
Look I think it’s great you and a couple of others stat heads follow the minor leagues far more than most major league fans do.We get it that. We get that you guys are great with math. Yahoo! But the real deal is that you guys don’t know diddly. I don’t recall any of you and your stats predicting last season with any accuracy.You also don’t know which prospect will pan out any more than the rest of us.So I call B.S. on you and the rest of the stat heads who try to come off as insightful or something.
Oh. And when they start putting crap like VORP and EQa or whatever on Hall of Fame placks, then I’ll start believing they mean something meaningful. Until that time…B.S.
By kirkinga
December 11, 2008 6:43 PM | Link to this
Wow, if Hamels were on the Braves and said something like that he would’ve been traded already.
By Couch Tater
December 11, 2008 6:52 PM | Link to this
Epinephrine - Nice post @ 6:15. It’s got to be frustrating for any credible journalist to have to weed through the B.S.
By nolie
December 11, 2008 6:56 PM | Link to this
until that time when MLB wakes up and insists on a more level playing field, (Ever hear of the NFL?), than currently exists.cutman
i thought this was America. What gives you the right to tell the Yanks how they can spend their own money? You gonna tell me next how I can spend mine?
By Bubdylan
December 11, 2008 7:01 PM | Link to this
B.S. Police, I don’t think Steve from OH is doing what you’re talking about. At all. As far as “trying to come off as insightful or something,” that seems to be your department. The discussion I see from them is plenty reserve, tempered with phrases like “that’s just my opinion” and “I’m going to reserve judgement.” The fact that you can (fail at trying to) pounce on such an innocuous post as that makes me think you just have a complex or something.
By kirkinga
December 11, 2008 7:01 PM | Link to this
Last season we had a starter at AAA pitch 79 innings and go 5-2. This guy had a 2.05 ERA, 72 K’s, and gave up 0 Hr’s. His WHIP was .99 and avg was .181.
This guy also tore up the AFL and there was much anticipation of his arrival to Atlanta.
But guess what happened when Charlie Morton made it to the big leagues? He didn’t dominate the way he jhad in the minors.In fact many who once championed his cause can’t wait to trade him away or think of him now as an afterthought for the rotation.
Now the same people say Tommy Hanson is without doubt, really-truly, cross-my-heart, The. Next. Big. Thing.
Hanson pitched 138 innings last season, below AAA and had better(though very similar) stats than Morton.
We’re supposed to believe that Hanson is not only worth not trading for Jake Peavy, but also worth giving up a proven big league SS. All from 138 innings below AAA.
I’m sorry but it just isn’t as clear cut as some say that it is. I’m willing to go out on a limb and say that there have been others with numbers as good or better than Hanson’s at that level that did not turn out to be major league starters.
By TennesseePaul
December 11, 2008 7:02 PM | Link to this
If MLB required the teams to spend their revenue sharing money on their teams, rather than pocketing it, fans would have less reason to complain about the financial inequities. Good front offices would field solid teams.
This is not entirely correct. If MLB required teams to spend revenue sharing money on payroll, player salaries would increase accordingly. It’d take part of the bargainning away from the team as agents would walk in and say, “I know you have been mandated to spend X amount so don’t tell me you can’t afford this deal.” I think you’d see similar team results with a mandate only higher payrolls would be the change. And/Or you would see other areas of the club neglected to compensate for such a mandate.
SteveOH: Well the point of those stats was to look only at what each player had produced through the age of 20, as that is how old Gorkys is. I can’t rightly compare Schafer’s 21 year old production at a higher level to Gorkys. And who’s to say Gorkys isn’t going to have the epiphany and break out this season?
By Travis
December 11, 2008 7:04 PM | Link to this
Dave, a while back I posted that you were depressed about the Peavy deal and you responded that frustration was more like it…Well, it looks like you have taken the leap to depressed!
By B.S. SWAT Team
December 11, 2008 7:05 PM | Link to this
Steve from OH If you don’t stop blowing people’s minds with your fancy metrics such as this convenient little assortment of “batting average”, “on-base percentage” and “slugging percentage” then we’ll be forced to enter this blog with…um…force!!!
By Eric from MO
December 11, 2008 7:13 PM | Link to this
kirkinga “Wow, if Hamels were on the Braves and said something like that he would’ve been traded already.”
What are you talking about? Hamels just lead them to their first World Series in over 25 years. He is the only starting pitcher they have ever found who can pitch effectively in that ballpark and may I point out that the Braves had John Rocker and it took awhile for him to get traded and said far worse. Rocker just about offended everybody and did far less and Hamels just pointed out the obvious. Mets Choke big deal. The Braves are the same as everybody else JUST WIN BABY!!!
By TennesseePaul
December 11, 2008 7:15 PM | Link to this
“But, yeah, that’s kind of what we believed and I think we’re always going to believe that until they prove us wrong,” Hamels said. “For the past two years they’ve been choke artists.”
I’d put that at the last three years as they did choke it up in the NLCS
By Bubdylan
December 11, 2008 7:20 PM | Link to this
Travis, when you think of David O’Brien and the word “depressed,” think of Glavine and “devastated.” If DOB shows up and says, “yeah, okay, you got me. I’m depressed over Peavy,” I’ll… uh… I’ll read 5 posts by Anders all the way through. (Which is like saying “I’ll eat my hat” …if the hat is made of dog crap.)
By Epinephrine
December 11, 2008 7:22 PM | Link to this
kirkringa
*Last season we had a starter at AAA pitch 79 innings and go 5-2. This guy had a 2.05 ERA, 72 K’s, and gave up 0 Hr’s. His WHIP was .99 and avg was .181.
This guy also tore up the AFL and there was much anticipation of his arrival to Atlanta.
But guess what happened when Charlie Morton made it to the big leagues? *
He got hurt. That’s what happened to Charlie Morton when he got to the big leagues. He got hurt after his second start. His normal velocity on his four seamer dropped from 96 to 92, and his two seamer from 92-88. Then he started trying to aim his pitches to compensate.
His first two starts were great for a debut. The rest were what you’d expect with an injured rookie. So what’s your point?
I still have high hopes for Morton, and for good reason.
By The Goche
December 11, 2008 7:22 PM | Link to this
DOB
I was wondering if you ever posted your top Christmas music. I’m getting married on Saturday and our reception is going to have some Christmas music, I’m making the playlist and I was hoping to see some of your top choices so I might use some.
If you posted it before, I never did see it so if you did maybe you could point me in that direction. Otherwise, if you get a chance I’d love to hear what you got.
By Epinephrine
December 11, 2008 7:24 PM | Link to this
OH and by the way, Kirkinga, Hanson has dominated every other level of minor league ball, whereas Morton only got it together the last 6 months of his minor league career. So…it’s an awful comparison.
By Braves Fan in PA
December 11, 2008 7:25 PM | Link to this
Any chance of getting Volquez from the Reds? He seems to have Ace stuff but I doubt the Reds would give him up easily.
By Chris
December 11, 2008 7:25 PM | Link to this
Woops on the typo earlier - and Eric from MO - that’s what I was referencing there. Going into last season NOBODY expected the Rays to be any good. A few players with question marks (like our JoJo, Hernandez, Schafer, Blanco, jurrjens) and average/above average vets populated the Tampa lineup on opening day 08. Many of those guys played out - they got production from places that going in they didn’t expect to get it from. There probably wasn’t a whole lot of optimism there.
The point I was trying to make is that we shouldn’t all despair at this point - I mean after all Wren ain’t done yet.
By Eric from MO
December 11, 2008 7:26 PM | Link to this
kirkinga- While Morton had a good year he was never a big prospect. In the 6 previous seasons(all his seasons)he never had a winning season or a year with an ERA under 4.25 and only one season with 4.29. Comparing Morton to Hansen is like comparing apples to oranges. Hansen is just better. He throws harder, has nastier pitches, has more comand, and is just better.
By Eric from MO
December 11, 2008 7:31 PM | Link to this
Epinephrine good point. I forgot Morton got hurt. I still think is ridiculous to compare Morton and Hansen but good point. Just hurts their arguement that much more.
By ncscoots
December 11, 2008 7:34 PM | Link to this
I was on the fence about Gorkys over Schafer until I started really going through this
Schafer, though, has been through the first big step at AA and did well, despite the suspension and pressing upon his return. Gorkys has to show that he can also make that jump. Don’t get me wrong, I’m a Gorkys fan, just not overwhelmed by him…yet.
nolie, you gotta stop dropping those posts like 5:39. Too on target for this blog, LOL. I buy into your premise, though, and I can’t fire off my occasional rant, and what fun would that be?!?
By Joe M.
December 11, 2008 7:37 PM | Link to this
The Diamondbacks signed a second baseman. I think Kelly Johnson stays, and that is probably a good thing.
By Zapper Dapper Rapper
December 11, 2008 7:39 PM | Link to this
Nice for once to see a column from this writer that isn’t sugar coated. The truth may hurt, but the first step to improving is accepting the truth.
The Braves haven’t been “the Braves” as we all may like to think of them in some time.
As for AJ Burnett… Overpaying an injury-prone, sub-ace pitcher to a long term deal is not the way to dig yourself out of a hole.
By Steve from OH
December 11, 2008 7:39 PM | Link to this
Look I think it’s great you and a couple of others stat heads follow the minor leagues far more than most major league fans do.
Well, that’s awfully nice of you. Thanks!
We get it that.
Does not make sense
We get that you guys are great with math. Yahoo!
Yeah, it’s cool isn’t it? Integrals, standard deviations, excel speadsheets…aah, I’m in heaven. What is baseball, but numbers really? What is a home run, but another addition to an excel spreadsheet?
Oh, and by the way, it really is not hard to use a search engine and find those stats already calculated for you. No evil math involved (sidebar: why are people afraid of math?). And then use your “brain” to expand on those stats using logic, a skill that I am sure that you do not possess, to say that a player’s poor performance during his teenage years may have a negative influence on his numbers that may not truly reflect his ability.
But the real deal is that you guys don’t know diddly.
Who is diddly and why do I need to know him?
I don’t recall any of you and your stats predicting last season with any accuracy.
Really? PECOTA, the evil three-headed computer from the planet Zorg, predicted the 2008 Seattle Mariners to finish with 73 wins, while many analysts actually predicted them to win the AL west. If you’ll follow this link, you’ll find that the evil stats computer that shall not be named performed significantly better than the analysts that (I assume) you think “know diddly” about baseball and such. That’s right—a computer out-predicted professional baseball analysts using statistics. I assume that would be meaningful to anyone with half a brain. Oh, and might I mention predictions are just that—predictions. You actually have to go out and play the game, you know. No prediction will ever be 100% accurate, except my prediction that you are too afraid to say what you’re saying right now under your real screen name.
You also don’t know which prospect will pan out any more than the rest of us.
Never claimed that I did. Though I would like to mention that one can integrate the two mythical beasts “statistics” (which are a measure of performance, might I add) and “scouting” (also very important and highly relevant) to “evaluate” a player, and make an educated guess as to which ones will pan out and which ones won’t. I know it takes a bit of logic (scary) and maybe math (like addition and long division! The horror!). Though I will say that I do base my opinions on the written observations of other folks that are actually paid to try to evaluate those prospects. And I’ll assume that they know much more than you.
So I call B.S. on you and the rest of the stat heads who try to come off as insightful or something.
Naw, the insightful ones are the guys who came up with that stuff, deciding to break the RBI/”clutch”/”gritty” mold that has plagued player analysis for so long.
Oh. And when they start putting crap like VORP and EQa or whatever on Hall of Fame placks, then I’ll start believing they mean something meaningful. Until that time…B.S.
First off, there is no such thing as a Hall-of-Fame “plack,” and secondly, this is not a real argument. And I’ll assume that you have a real, legitimate arugment as to exactly why those stats are “crap,” as opposed to “not on hall of fame ‘placks’=crap.” Or am I jumping the gun in assuming that you are being insightful in your analysis? So, will you use your brain and find flaws in their formula or reasoning, or will you keep saying things like “hall of fame placks?”
By The Bottom Line
December 11, 2008 7:44 PM | Link to this
Liberty Media isn’t going to cough up the kind of money like, let’s say, an Arthur Blank would. It’s time for local ownership to return to the Braves! That’s our only hope. I think things started declining when Ted sold the team to Time Warner. I’m telling you…corporate ownership is not good on teams.
By kirkinga
December 11, 2008 7:44 PM | Link to this
Eric from MO, what I am talking about is that the Braves would likely trade a player for making outrageous comments like that.
Don’t believe me? Ask David Justice about what happen to him.
Epinephrine, I didn’t say Hanson was dominant. What I said was that he has been dominant for a short period of time in the lower minor leagues for one season.
I said that it was arguable that such dominance for a small amount of time justifies not trading for a young Cy Young ace-type.
Are you denying paddy’s point about others who showed promise not living up to their hype?
Look, I can go either way. Keep the prospects and young players and support them with FA’s. Or, trade the guy already and get the ace so many people are moaning that we absolutely must have.
I like Charlie Morton. I wouldn’t trade him or Escobar. I said this two months ago. But many who hyped up Morton now easily throw him under the bus for Peavy. They rarely mention his injury. His inclusion in the rotation is now just an afterthought.He went from Can’t Miss to Who Cares all too quick.
So I think it’s entirely rational for some to now look at Hanson and his 138 innings and urge cautioned if not be down right skeptical.
By Travis
December 11, 2008 7:44 PM | Link to this
buddylan.. You got me pal…I didn’t understand one thing you typed…must be the new internet lingo…or maybe not english…some other form of communication
By The Bottom Line
December 11, 2008 7:46 PM | Link to this
To add to my last post, look at the Detroit Lions of the NFL. It’s ran by the Ford folks, and they don’t want to spend money. That team is like…0 and forever.
By The Real Joebrave
December 11, 2008 7:48 PM | Link to this
OMG!!!!You people are so incredibly Dumb!! Sheep led around by Your Noses!!! First Lillybritches,then Shafer,Then Salty,,Then Harrison,Then Andrus,Then Morton,Then huck Oh!magawd James,etal….
You guys nevercease to amaze me, a never-ending flock buyibng into every so-called prospect that the Braves Have!!!
None of these guys are spectacular,not one of You probably has ever seen One of these Hot-shots play!!! You get some report By Wren that says He’s Gushing in the AFL, over a player and all of the sudden That Player is the Next Barry Bonds,Hank Aaron,or even John Smoltz!!!Geez! stop! These Kids are just that,the only difference is the Tomahawk on their chest, and Jordan Shafer is a CHEATER!!!
Look I realize some of these guys can pan out,but do You really expect 25 HR, and 65 RBI out of a Kid that has never Sniffed the Jock of a Major Leauger, Someone here suggested that very tghing of J.Shafer,what? did they quit testing for HGH???
Some get overlooked,like Escobar then wham, Future All-Star!! 99% of the can’t miss so-called prospects do Just that MISS!!! See Brad Komminsk,Dan Smith,Rick Behenna,Charles Thomas,Melvin Nieves,and so-on!!! Rarely do You have A Brett Butler,or others of that Ilk get away,It’s just a Fact that Wren can’t sell Turds like Shuerholtz could…
Go ahead get on the Bandwagon for Ol Wren all ya want, I still reserve the same mindset that He isn’t the Man for this job,Never will be!!!
It ain’t Atlanta Folks it’s Atlanta Management!!! Stop kidding Yourselves!!
By Steve from OH
December 11, 2008 7:49 PM | Link to this
SteveOH: Well the point of those stats was to look only at what each player had produced through the age of 20, as that is how old Gorkys is. I can’t rightly compare Schafer’s 21 year old production at a higher level to Gorkys. And who’s to say Gorkys isn’t going to have the epiphany and break out this season?
True, good points, all very fair. Let me just say that I hope Gorkys has one hell of a break-out season. I was just offering my reasons for liking Schafer more, not trying to bash you by any means. Just trying to strike up an intelligent conversation, seeing as that we haven’t seen one since the Yankees allegedly topped our offer for Burnett.
BS Swat Team:
Have mercy! I come in peace! But I must warn you, if you choose to attack, my WARP cannon will totally VORP you up.
By TommyP
December 11, 2008 7:49 PM | Link to this
The argument about how the Braves need to spend more to win is just asinine.
One of the posters listed payrolls of all the teams earlier. If those numbers are correct, the Braves come in at #10 or did at least last year by his numbers.
If you can’t compete in your division with the 10th highest payroll in the majors, you need a new GM.
By The Real Joebrave
December 11, 2008 7:51 PM | Link to this
Bottom Line, You have Your Facts wrong there Buddy!!! Turner never sold the Braves to Time Warner, Turner was hoodwinked out of His Media conglomerate,He actually thought He was buying Time, and CBS at the same time,but was leveraged in the deal by one of His own poeple!!!!
By The Real Joebrave
December 11, 2008 7:51 PM | Link to this
Bottom Line, You have Your Facts wrong there Buddy!!! Turner never sold the Braves to Time Warner, Turner was hoodwinked out of His Media conglomerate,He actually thought He was buying Time, and CBS at the same time,but was leveraged in the deal by one of His own poeple!!!!
By Bubdylan
December 11, 2008 7:53 PM | Link to this
Travis, my bad.
Short (coherent) version: I doubt DOB gets depressed about trades (or non-trades).
By flange1
December 11, 2008 7:54 PM | Link to this
Steve,
STOP!
There will be no VORPing on THIS blog!
By Thundersticks
December 11, 2008 7:54 PM | Link to this
^By O’brien
December 11, 2008 7:40 PM | Link to this
First, let me say that I am not a Manny fan (and I know his agent is Boras). However, since we may not end up with Peavy or AJ, how would you feel about signing Manny. The Dodgers had previously offered 2 yrs, $45 million. What if the Braves offered 3 yrs, $60 million?
Manny’s $20 million + Vasquez’s $11.5 million still leaves us with about $10 million and prospects to make another deal.
Manny had 53 RBI’s in 53 games for the Dodgers last year. And the guy is a winner*
The only drawback to that idea is the potential influence Manny would have on young Esocbar. I think Bobby could handle his personality and as long as its a short deal, which will help keep him somewhat in line for one more big payday, I say go for it.
By Lew
December 11, 2008 7:56 PM | Link to this
Kirkinga-Dude, not everyone is quite as ready to throw Morton under the bus like you seem to be. He had his problems (likely because his shoulder bothered him at the end), but at least half his starts were quality starts. We’ve mentioned this many times before-check out the earlier years of Glavine, Maddux and Smoltz (not to mention many other successful pitchers). They all took their lumps early in their careers. It’s way too early to think because he got batted around a bit at times, that Morton or any other young pitcher won’t get better with the experience and live up to their potential.
Besides-Hanson didn’t just dominate-he kicked Freaking butt. Take away two starts when he first went up to AA and the Dude was untouchable the rest of the season-all the way through the AFL. I sure as hell want to see him pitch in Atlanta-and not with some other team-with a Tomahawk on his uni.
By kirkinga
December 11, 2008 7:59 PM | Link to this
Eric from MO, I’m sorry but why again is it “ridiculous” to compare Hanson to Morton, or other pitchers who showed great promise in the minors?
No one is above being compared to other players. In any sport at any level. If people can compare the Ruth;’s, and Aaron’s,and Mantle’s and etc… then they can darn sure compare Tommy freakin Hanson to others….lol! :)
Are you telling me Hanson’s numbers are better than any prospects ever in the history of the game? How about Top 10 all time? Top 25 perhaps? If you are ok, I stand corrected, there is something that distinguishes him from Morton and all others who have shown great promise in the lower minors.
If not, then what we’re back to is a one season performance by a player that so captivated the imagination of people that they would rather trade young major league players instead of him.
In other words…a hope and a prayer. Some say that’s not enough to keep an ace away. I’m just saying they do have an argument and shouldn’t be dismissed.
By Steve from OH
December 11, 2008 8:01 PM | Link to this
Flange:
Point taken, lol! I’ll give it a rest.
By Lew
December 11, 2008 8:04 PM | Link to this
JoeBrave-There is no test for HGH.
By Bubdylan
December 11, 2008 8:04 PM | Link to this
Talked to a person familiar with the Cubs’ thinking…he really could not see the Cubs revisiting a Peavy trade. The Padres need to get Peavy’s $63MM off the books soon, yet were trying to swing 6-for-1 or 7-for-1 deals for him despite the extremely limited market. Marshall was never in the mix, by the way. -Tim Dierkes
Wow. 6 or 7 players. What do you Just-Get-It-Done-Wren folks think of that?
By Lew
December 11, 2008 8:04 PM | Link to this
Or should I say they can’t test or it because it occurs naturally in the body.
By McFann O –[zzz]
December 11, 2008 8:06 PM | Link to this
Flange You have to be smiling after the JJ Putz trade…
: (
By BravesFanInRockies
December 11, 2008 8:09 PM | Link to this
TennesseePaul (7:02),
That’s why I suggested teams get some sort of safety valve — in other words, their payroll has to average their revenue sharing over, say, a three-year period.
If they had to basically empty the bank account every year, then sure, agents could hold teams hostage.
Hey, I’m not seeking perfection. But I think it’s an outrage for owners to get millions of dollars in taxpayer subsidies from sweetheart stadium deals and still have the ability to line their pockets.
But a salary cap? With the number of games played and the size of the rosters, it would ruin the game.
By Steve from OH
December 11, 2008 8:13 PM | Link to this
Lew-there is a blood test, but it is (from my understanding) very unreliable and expensive. There is a urine test under development, I think, but I don’t know too much about it so I won’t comment. It does occur naturally in the body, but I would imagine that testing is difficult due to the methods for isolating the HGH from the blood or urine
Not to mention that there isn’t any conclusive evidence that HGH boosts performance. In fact, I’ve come across several studies that suggest HGH use results in “larger but functionally weaker muscles.”
By SoWeGa Fanatic
December 11, 2008 8:14 PM | Link to this
TommyP, GM’s can’t do a lot about the DL.
By BravesFanInRockies
December 11, 2008 8:16 PM | Link to this
Bubdylan,
6-for-1? 7-for-1?
Shades of Von Hayes.
(See if you remember that one!)
By kirkinga
December 11, 2008 8:16 PM | Link to this
LEW, my man, please kindly make sure you’ve got my point correct…lol!
I said, “I wouldn’t trade Morton…” and I said months ago when the blog was having a discussion about which young players should be considered “untouchable”. I said it again today.I included Morton along with McCann, JJ, Escobar, Gonzo, Francouer, and Kotchman.
Labeling him untouchable is not throwing him under the bus in my world.
By The Bottom Line
December 11, 2008 8:25 PM | Link to this
Alright JoeBrave I didn’t remember the details there. I’m with you on Wren totally not being the guy for this job. Speaking of turds…what the Braves brass are trying to do now is trying to polish a turd…it just can’t be done!
By B.S. SWAT Team
December 11, 2008 8:32 PM | Link to this
Steve from OH - Duly noted! Glad we could end this standoff without pulling out the EqAlizer, seen plenty of civies get hit with flying mathematical shrapnel…hey guys, lets get out of this riot gear and get some VORPing donuts!!
By Bubdylan
December 11, 2008 8:32 PM | Link to this
BFI Rockies, as limited as my Braves knowledge is, my non-Braves knowledge is squat. I googled the Von Hayes deal, though. Interesting.
I wonder if Towers is sabotaging the deals he doesn’t really want in order to get Peavy to loosen up on the “list.”
Crap, am I making another Peavy post? It’s not a name that wears especially well on the mind’s ear, even without Towers Madness. Peavy. Sounds like a 5-year-old telling his mom he’s about to puke. “Mama, I feel Peavy again.”
By The Bottom Line
December 11, 2008 8:33 PM | Link to this
I think when the Braves were handed from corporate owner to corporate owner, that’s when they started their decline. The farm system isn’t where it should be. It’s not horrible but it’s not great either. Furman Bisher nailed it on the head in a previous article about Wren not doing a good job. This is awful. I wished the Falcons season lasted longer because I am not looking forward to this upcoming baseball season. Didn’t the Orioles fire Wren for being an “impotent” GM? I keep repeating this, but can anybody out there in “blog land” agree with me when I say that the Braves need some better owners?
By flange1
December 11, 2008 8:39 PM | Link to this
McFann,
EXACTLY!!!
By Reality
December 11, 2008 8:48 PM | Link to this
C.C. Sabathia wants to play in the NL because he likes hitting! He likes the Brewers and enjoyed his time with them! Mike Cameron is his buddy! He is a family man who wants to play near home on the west coast! He is an easy-going guy and doesn’t want to play for New York!
Yawn. Another player proves he only cares about the money and nothing more. Burnett will do the same when he signs with the Yankees for 5 years and 85 million instead of taking a slightly lesser offer, of probably 5 years and 80, from the Braves. Don’t let anyone fool you about his relationship with Chipper Jones or his preference for Atlanta over New York or some such BS. It’s about one thing and one thing only: $$$$$$$$
By The Bottom Line
December 11, 2008 8:52 PM | Link to this
Jake Peavy is a tool. Turner Field isn’t big enough for his ego or attitude.
By bravesfan54
December 11, 2008 8:54 PM | Link to this
Okay, okay…I’ll admit to a glass or two of Merlot. I also am well-aware that “sportsfans” are generally pro-active in spending the owners’ money. I’ll get flack for saying this, but…the last Marlins’ WS series WINNERS had a payroll LESS than $40M - don’t tell me that to win, a team has to spend $100M. (Does the lunatic fringe - and, “we know you are out there” - understand no WS appearances from the pinstripes since 2000? Does the fringe understand what the payroll of the 2008 Rays totalled? Ok, now that we understand the insanity involved in the “salary/success” correlation figures - let’s get down to specifics. Statistically, Peavey should be the goal - and a hope Braves’ management utilized a “brian patch” strategy…. but I digress….
No way is a $60M - let alone $80M 5 year package justified for AJ Burnett.
Go low, go smart -and rememember the lessons of Mike Hampton, Mo Vaughn, Andrew Jones’ contracts (and, could this list be expanded?…you betcha…ad nauseum!
Braves cannot compete payrollwise anyhow..with the Yankees.
I have one final request of the “lunatic fringe” spend more money crowd: look at the player-by-player stats of the 2008 Yankees - player for player, position by position, they were both VERY GOOD STATS (especially compared to the Braves)… though significantly less than the previous years’ (high salaried output).
The payroll/success correlation is simply not a success model. Folks…I hate to say what even the lunatic fringe sports fan knows: we are in a recession that will take more than a couple of years to resolve. There are sports franchises to compete with GM (okay, the UAW). We should need to be a survivor in this market, not an investor.
DOB: My man, I understand that you will suss that I am a paranoid, pessimestic soul. Please don’t make that mistake! Bob Dylan’s “the times they are a’ changin’” is not at all foreign to you, my hippest of guru’s. But these sports fanatics carry you like Rhiannon’s wind- don’t buy into it, my friend! - the worm has turned, and it’s a different world. (That is to say, that the day that Scott Boras’ can dismiss a 2yr 48m with a 3 yr 60M option with the statement (to the effect) that they are now willing to consider “serious” offers is gone.)
Sad days for America with all the layoffs, failures of judgment, that anybody could (implicitly) dismiss such an offer as non-serious. (“let them eat cake” comes to mind.).
Apologize for the rant- but the times call for sobriety!
By Bobby from SC
December 11, 2008 8:57 PM | Link to this
I just dont understand all the Frank Wren bashing. 1st he walked away from Kevin Towers and kept out farm system in tact. HE tried hard to obtain Peavy, but knew when to walk away. 2nd He has done everything he could to acquire A.J. Burnett. Plain and simple, the Yankees have MORE MONEY. What do you want the guy to do. In my opinion Wren see’s the big picture. He is trying to make this team better.
By LT-A blogger
December 11, 2008 9:04 PM | Link to this
Reality- great insight there. I mean really. What’s the difference between 85 million and 80 million. Oh yeah, that’s right- 5 frickin “million” dollars. Don’t know about you but I still think 5 million dollars is a lot of money. Why the He!! shouldn’t a player make a decision on 5 million dollars?
By Jim
December 11, 2008 9:11 PM | Link to this
DOB:
Sorry to bother you about this, but many reports today stated that Braves would no longer include Escobar in Peavy deal, if such is resurrected, because they have traded Lilibridge. I thought you had stated - and most of us agreed - that Lilibridge was never considered the SS of ‘09 by B’s, if Escobar was traded. On that note, it is noteworthy perhaps that Furcal has not signed yet. Perhaps he’s holding out waiting to see if Escobar is traded, for Peavy or Grienke, or someone else.
Good reporting from LV. Hope you gleaned a thought or two from FW on your way home. Assume you were in the back of the bus; where was he?
By Reality
December 11, 2008 9:15 PM | Link to this
Why the He!! shouldn’t a player make a decision on 5 million dollars?
I don’t care if they do. Maybe they should (even though, if the offers are right, it isn’t five million when you factor in cost-of-living and New York taxes vs. Georgia taxes.)
My problem is with the stories and ink put out by writers about how so-and-so player likes this place or has a friend there or wants to be close to his family. Stop lying! Just be completely honest say it’s all about the cash and which team offers the most of it.
By McFann O –[zzz]
December 11, 2008 9:20 PM | Link to this
Flange—
Yes, it is a sad sad trade…Not only did the Mets get a good pitcher, but Heilman is now in the AL…
Their goes my dream rotation for the Mets (or Fillies).
By J.L.
December 11, 2008 9:23 PM | Link to this
Not wanting any part of manny , I was appalled that a few of the blogs elite would want him to wear the tomahawk. Then the idea began to appeal to me. Yes this is the way to finally get rid of the BooBy.
By HIC
December 11, 2008 9:25 PM | Link to this
Apologize for the rant- but the times call for sobriety!
LOL> seems to leave you out in the cold then
By kirkinga
December 11, 2008 9:27 PM | Link to this
Frank Wren has made only one mistake so far this offseason. His mistake was being too specific with what he wanted to get done this offseason. ‘, Instead of telling us he wanted to get “two front of the rotation starters and a run-producing bat”,he should’ve just said something more vague like he” wanted to improve the rotation and offense”.
By talking in specifics he created a yardstick from which many here seek to measure his performance so far and have found him lacking.
So instead of us discussing whether or not the rotation and offense has improved, many are now saying Wren is a failure because he hasn’t acquired a front of the rotation or ace, nevermind mere improvement.
As I said before, the Braves are an improved team right now. With the addition of the right starter and bat, they could head to ST with a squad better than the one they broke camp with last season.
We are an incomplete team, but improved. No cause for complaint(or fussing at each other).
By chris r.
December 11, 2008 9:29 PM | Link to this
We can’t go after Manny? Can you imagine the seasons Chip, Mac would have around him. That guy is almost impossible to get out. Heck, even Francoeur would have a resurgence around him.
By Doc Holliday
December 11, 2008 9:34 PM | Link to this
Im starting to think that Padres officials failed to deal Peavy on purpose to the Cubs, cause they think the offer Braves made to them was much better…….maybe the baseball gods will smile to us now.
Thoughts……….???
By Bubdylan
December 11, 2008 9:36 PM | Link to this
LAS VEGAS — Padres star pitcher Jake Peavy is “frustrated” by the team’s inability to trade him after threatening to do so for months and “shaken” over the Padres’ latest failure to deal him to the Cubs after weeks of talks, Peavy’s agent Barry Axelrod said.
“It’s tough. Jake was pretty shaken by it,” Axelrod said. “He was starting to think about what life was like to be a Chicago Cub, and now that was taken from him.” John Heyman
Poor fella. Had his wittle heart set on Wrigley for real.
By Bobby from SC
December 11, 2008 9:39 PM | Link to this
If Towers does call back, Escobar must be off the table
By Reality
December 11, 2008 9:40 PM | Link to this
Trade talks between the Padres and Cubs broke down with Cubs people complaining about the way San Diego was doing business. But if the Cubs are annoyed (and they are, as several Cubs officials expressed annoyance over the Padres continuing push for more players…. -SI
Same ol’ Kevin Towers.
By fastasballs
December 11, 2008 9:44 PM | Link to this
kirkinga
I think you nailed it regarding Wren & his ramping up of the fan’s expectations. Had he just said the aim was to improve the rotation & outfield he would be in a better position.
I don’t see how anyone faults him for not getting Peavy. As the Cubs found out Towers has unrealistic expectations on a return & thinks he has the leverage when in fact he has little if any at this point. From everything I have read Peavy & his salary MUST be gone. I really think in the end a team will get Peavy for probably half of the orginal offer by the Braves, maybe less.
Wren has made the offer to AJ & if he signs for so be it. The guy is a risk anyway you put it considering he’s going to get a 5 year deal for 80 plus million.
Vazquez was a decent pick up & is looking better by the day. Hopefully if AJ isn’t signed Wren can sign a Perez, Sheets, Johnson & most of all Smoltz. Sign or trade for a left fielder, sign some bench guys & go to spring training.
If the team is playing good baseball & is in the thick of the race then he should have a lot of leverage with the money in the bank to take salary dumps by other teams before the trade deadline.
By chris r.
December 11, 2008 9:51 PM | Link to this
DOB, An article on MSN.Com earlier today states “The Wire” as the best TV Series ever? What’s your take on this? I have watched all the seasons, with Season 2, be the most bizarre to me(felt like watching Halloween 3 - no, just kidding) at first. But it was actually a fantastic season. I thought seasons 2 & 3 were the best ones.
By kirkinga
December 11, 2008 9:52 PM | Link to this
Doc Holliday I think you could be right. But their plan could’ve been to make a strong push to accommodate Peavy’s first choice which seems to be the Cubs.
With a very strong Braves offer in their back pocket they tried to get greedy secure that they could always come back to the Braves.
Chicago was essentially bidding against no one else and decided to move on.
I’m still thinking that Peavy’s contract value represents about $30-40 million more that the owner will owe due to Community Property laws so waiting to make the trade later isn’t without consequence.
By rico carty
December 11, 2008 9:55 PM | Link to this
Nolie, I know a little bit about Braves history and prospects, so thank you very much. But I’d rather go young than half-baked mediocre with a rising payroll. If AJ accepts being a #2 man, instead of an ace with us, and Peavy didn’t want to come here, that should tell you something. 2009 ain’t 1993. Gone are Turner, TBS, freespending days. We will do better to redevelop the farm, be patient and win like Tampa did this year, like we did in the early 90s. Or perhaps you’d like a rotation of Russ Ortiz and Millwood next year also?
By gayle
December 11, 2008 9:56 PM | Link to this
While the Braves have been dancing with Peavy and Burnett, the Mets transformed their bullpen into one of the best in the league. Now the Braves will not only have to jump the World Champions, but also the revitalized Mets.
I know that hope spings eternal, especially a month or two before Spring training but some of the predictions here are just silly. Smoltz 17-9 and pitching 190 innings? He’s 41 and coming off radical arm surgery!
Also said here is that this is BC’s last year. What is wrong with shutting it down and rebuilding? This is not a competitive team - definitely not in 2009. Give the kids a chance to get used to the “show” and plan for 2010.
This annual band-aid thing is just a waste of time. Keep this up and the wait for the playoffs will be even longer.
By Brooklyn Braves Brawler
December 11, 2008 10:03 PM | Link to this
If the Braves don’t get AJ then I say pay Manny 17mil for 3 years and sign Oliver Perez. I am not big either in the clubhouse but I know Manny can mash and Oliver is still a young, filthy, lefty that never had a bad game against us.
JJ, Oliver, JV, Campillo, Hansen with Smiltzy back at mid season
Schafer,Yunel, Chipper, Manny,B-Mac, Kotchman, Frenchy, KJ or Prado
By Doc Holliday
December 11, 2008 10:11 PM | Link to this
kirkinga
You are right. I wouldnt include yunel now, specially now the lilliy is gone.
Id say KJ, Reyes and maybe some one of the extra OF we have…….Anderson? Maybe thats too much for peavy……maybe 2 AA players instead of anderson.
By Joe M.
December 11, 2008 10:12 PM | Link to this
and sign Oliver Perez.
Oh hell no.
By kirkinga
December 11, 2008 10:14 PM | Link to this
fastasballs, you right, signing Smoltz now is a key move we’ve been overlooking, but he may be our only ace which can be enough with an effective offense.
By thad
December 11, 2008 10:16 PM | Link to this
well it has come to this. maybe the last blog. we stunk last year because we had no pitching. that is the bottom line. you cant debate it.
now what do we have any different than last year?????????????
By Paralysis By Analysis
December 11, 2008 10:18 PM | Link to this
Is what happens to this blog…..frequently…Listen!!….a real life is out there….for the taking….
By Axelrods Comments
December 11, 2008 10:18 PM | Link to this
Anyone see Axelrod’s comments about the winter meetings in general?
“It’s amazing to me how many people can waste time, money and resources, and get nothing done,” Axelrod said. “Baseball moved lock, stock and barrel into that town,(vegas) and absolutely nothing happened.”
I think that’s hilarious! And true! lol
By kirkinga
December 11, 2008 10:22 PM | Link to this
gayle the Braves were already going to have to catch the Mets.
But if everyone is healthy, I pen is better and deeper, though if we lose Ohman it’s not as deep. But having a healthy Moylan, Soriano, and Gonzo added in with a fresher Acosta, Boyer and Bennet is a really good pen. The strength of the team so far.
By nolie
December 11, 2008 10:24 PM | Link to this
Duly noted! Glad we could end this standoff without pulling out the EqAlizer, seen plenty of civies get hit with flying mathematical shrapnel…hey guys, lets get out of this riot gear and get some VORPing donuts!! B.S.SWAT
now that was fuinny.
By Salty Dawg
December 11, 2008 10:25 PM | Link to this
Personally, I feel bad for Peavy here. First the Cubs say they want him to play in Chicago and now it sounds like they maybe don’t want him so much. Why did they waste his time if they didn’t really want him that much? All it did was get his hopes up and make him think there was a good shot he was going to get traded there. Oh wait, didn’t he just do the same thing to the Braves about a month ago? Maybe I don’t feel quite so bad for him after all. Maybe this is a little karma biting him in the backside. I wonder if he will rue his flip-flop on the Braves situation next season in sunny San Diego on his way to another crappy season with a crappy team.
By Vic
December 11, 2008 10:26 PM | Link to this
Really can you blame a player for not wanting to play for Atlanta? If it was you and you were a free agent are had the choice of where you could play and make millions, what would you do. Go to Braves that has a 232 hitter in rf, no cf, no lf and who the hell do they have except Smoltz, Chipper, Mac and Esco thats worth watching. Get real…the Braves just don’t have it and don’t get. Chipper and Smoltz for the last 2 or 3 years have been preaching it to management to no avail. I don’t blame Peavy, are AJ not coming here. Chipper or Smoltz if they want to move on. I love them but they deserve better because they bust their a@@ every game to win and they’re worth it. I blame Management not just the money, but they think their sh!! don’t stink! let good players go when they become FA. Keep people in line up like A. Jones when he couldn’t hit the Gold Club door. Frenchy when he looks like the wash woman trying to hit the wash board. Bring Glavine back. You could go on name calling=pitchers Cox would leave in to get killed over and over. Never hit run, no bunts they don’t know how. No small ball, couldn’t get a man from 3rd with no out to save his life. Hell had enough? Cox has had 15 good years and now its time for Braves to get some new Blood on the field, in dugout Mgr,Coaches and management need to take a long look at itself. Because yesterday is gone….This is 2009 and you don’t win on what you did yesterday. The Braves have a long way to go and AJ wouldn’t change that and Bobby’s good old boys system don’t work anymore. Now give me hell but you don’t love the Braves one bit more than I do.
By Bubdylan
December 11, 2008 10:26 PM | Link to this
Just to blow off some steam, Wren ought to call up Towers and say, “Okay, listen, we have an updated offer: Escobar, Locke, and Tommy Han… Tommy Han… can you hang on a sec? Click
And completely ignore all return calls. Forever.
By Doc Holliday
December 11, 2008 10:27 PM | Link to this
I wouldnt count on smoltz ……. i dont think he will pitch more than 100 innings this year.
By Bubdylan
December 11, 2008 10:31 PM | Link to this
Is what happens to this blog…..frequently…Listen!!….a real life is out there….for the taking….
Maybe tomorrow…
By Salty Dawg
December 11, 2008 10:31 PM | Link to this
Since it is beginning to become painfully obvious that the Braves will in fact not be able to get two top of the rotation type pitchers this off season and possibly not even one, why not switch gears and spend some of that extra payroll on the best hitters we can get for the outfield. Maybe we can slug our way to victory. At least that would be exciting to watch. I don’t know if Man Ram would ever be welcome in Atlanta just because of his attitude and antics, but I don’t think anyone can deny that the guy put the Dodgers on his back last season and carried them to the playoffs. As it stands now we would have an average, best case scenario a slightly above average, starting rotation. If you can’t out-pitch them, out-hit them.
By kirkinga
December 11, 2008 10:33 PM | Link to this
thad what we have different than last season is a healthy Smoltz for most of the season, maybe a healthy Glavine too, JV is now a part of the rotation and we will add at least one more starter if Wren was correct about moves to be made.
In addition, we get Moylan and Soriano back and will have Gonzo healthy for a full season. This in turn makes Acosta, Boyer, Bennett better because they will be able to fill the roles they better suited to fill. Last year they had to assume more responsibility and were overused to boot. With the return of the big 3 in the pen that is no longer the case.
To say nothings change incorrect.
By Phillip Fulmer
December 11, 2008 10:34 PM | Link to this
Somebody say donuts?
By LKS
December 11, 2008 10:36 PM | Link to this
Thad
It wasn’t that we didn’t have ANY pitching. It was 4 out of our 5 starters were injured. Actually, I recall very very few games that we didn’t have a shot at in the 7,8, or 9 innings. We just couldn’t get a flippin run in. There were TONS of games we lost by one run. I wouldn’t say that was bad pitching. I think we pitched decent given the amount of newbies we had starting. It was those last couple of runs we could never get through, or at least thats my opinion.
By Bravestillidie
December 11, 2008 10:36 PM | Link to this
I have to say one thing about this whole situation with the Braves’ offseason. I am extremely, extremely impressed witht the way Wren has handled his business. He has had an outrageously steady hand. He knows that a bidding war with the Yankees can’t be won, so he decides (theoretically) to offer the best possible deal we can afford to offer and leave it up to AJ.
If he comes to Atlanta great…I think. I’m still not sold on him. I know we NEED an ace, but after hearing this whole deal about AJ not neccesarily wanting to “be” that ace and would rather slot in behind CC in NY, then good for him. I dont mean this to sound snide, but honestly, if that’s his mindset I don’t want him leading our rotation. As good as he may be, if he isn’t going to act like an ace who WANTS to go out there and take the ball with it all on the line, then we definately don’t want him in ATL with out young impresionable pitchers trying to attain the right attitude. I would much rather take a second tier starter who wants that pressure, or feeds off of it, even if they aren’t good enough.
Because, let’s face it…if we don’t get an ace then there is only little chance we compete next year…which I’m ok with. I will still buy tickets and go to games because I love my team and so do my family and friends. I mean, I went 8 times last year and they only won two of the games I attended but I still bought my tickets for each game regardless because I love the game and the team.
But, if we aren’t going to compete next year because we didn’t get an ace, then let’s at least get a pitcher who is going to teach our young guns the right way to pitch and make the right decisions regarding the future.
I am just really worried that if AJ signs with NY that there will be a push to trade for another ace and end up overpaying. That is the one thing I wish I could say to Wren. If we don’t get AJ so what, go get the best possible pieces you can paying the least amount possible for those pieces. I know that sounds like what all GMs try to do, but I don’t want panic to set in. The good news is, I don’t think Wren will. He has really impressed me a lot this winter and I look forward to watching him in the future. Very smooth, calm, and collected. Hasn;t panicked yet, and shouldn’t panic at all, regardless.
Put the best team possible on the field this year and keep building for the future. No panic, no hurry. Just keep it business as usual. Although, I am very interested to see what deals Wren alluded to having “framework” in place for. Only time will tell.
BTID
By brent a.
December 11, 2008 10:38 PM | Link to this
And you know what?
$5 million will buy you a whole lot more today than it would this time last year!
By Nocturnal Owl
December 11, 2008 10:38 PM | Link to this
“We tried to cooperate as best we could,” Axelrod told SI.com in a phone interview. “Frankly, Jake is frustrated now more than ever. And I’m more frustrated than ever.”
Poor thing, now you know how VORPed Wren feels…Go back to the bar
By kirkinga
December 11, 2008 10:40 PM | Link to this
doc, if Smoltz says he’s going to be a starter next season I believe him. He isn’t going to be back until June or July, but he’ll pitch more than a 100 innings and more importantly, be strong in August and September.
That’s why the addition of another above average starter is critical and having Glavine back gives us quality innings as well.
The Braves lost 90 games last season because of health issues moreso than talent/performance issues.A few clutch hits last season and we’re in the race even with all the injuries.
By The Bottom Line
December 11, 2008 10:42 PM | Link to this
I really think we should “F” this bandaid thing like Gayle said. But if we do go after Peavey again, I’m also in agreement that Escobar should be off the table. Now that Lilli’s gone, we need Eschobar now, more than ever. Kevin Towers managed to try to milk the Cubs like he tried to milk the Braves. He’ll have to make a move and quit being so damn greedy!
By nolie
December 11, 2008 10:44 PM | Link to this
Or perhaps you’d like a rotation of Russ Ortiz and Millwood next year also? Rico
not sure where you got that idea, certainly not from anything that I have ever posted, let alone what I said to you. It took Tampa 10+ years of last place finishes and early drafts to get to last year and most of who they drafted failed. They will quickly fall out of contention either this year or nest. No team can be successful over the long run with nothing but their own draft picks. The Braves did a pretty damn good job considering they had 14 years of late picks. regardless of what Bisher is now spouting. There is kind of a hybrid-vigor when a team can keep most of it’s best and still pick up what it needs from other sources. That is the plan that the Braves used during the run, in no way did they try to rely only on their farm making the club, but also as a source to help resupply it with miossing partd through trades. They need to stay with the same approach. They have had an excellent record of having very few tradees coming back to haunt. If they could rekindle a workable deal for Peavy, I’m all for it. That in no way indicates that I want Millwood or Garland etc. It’s human nature to want your prospects to be all successful, and the Braves certainly have 6-8 very promising ones right now, but I’m pretty sure that even a few of those are not gonna become impact MLB players. I follow the Braves system very closely and am always interested in seeing guys like Heyward and Hanson and Chipper and Druw come up, but I spent a number of years as a scout and I know from first-hand experience just how very few prospects ever deliver on your hopes. Whatever.
By Wayne in Utah
December 11, 2008 10:44 PM | Link to this
Bubdylan
I LIKE IT!!
By Ron Roberts
December 11, 2008 10:47 PM | Link to this
I’m continually befuddled when I hear things like….
Peavy is concerned about the Braves being able to compete with the Phillie and Mets
and
A.J. Burnett may not necessarily want to be a team’s ‘ace’ like he would have to be in Atlanta…
Okay, fine; I realize Peavy may not be the sharpest knife in the drawer, but has anybody pointed out to Peavy that, with an ‘ace’ of his caliber in the rotation just last year the Braves would’ve challenged for, maybe even won, the NL East. Has anyone noted to young Mr. Peavy that the Braves won the season series vs. the Mets?
Now, as for Burnett, if A.J. doesn’t wish to be put in a position where he’d be a team’s ace, then don’t you think his agent ought not to be seeking a contract befitting an ace?
Oops.
I still say A.J.’s done nothing over the course of a full season, in his 10-year career, to warrant the “grab-hands” fascination among MLB general managers towards him. He’s had one - count ‘em - one fairly good season (and that was just last year) out of the ten he’s pitched; he’s only pithced 30 games or more in a season twice in ten seasons, and only pitched more than 200 innings three times in ten seasons.
And from that resume he warrants as much as Carlos Zambrano gets? Uh, I don’t think so.
As for Peavy, the Padres need this trade more than we do, frankly, and it’s time Towers starting acting like it. We can choose to take our lumps in 2009 with youth in the rotation, re-signing Smoltz and/or Glavine, and seeing what happens, (or potentially cook this deal we’re hearing more about with KC for Greinke maybe?). They have to trade Peavy and shed payroll. If Towers can’t swallow his pride and pick up the phone, he needs to be replaced by his ownership. What nobody’s saying is - we’re still (through it all) their best option. The Cubs are handcuffed in an ownership change and salary constraint (we’re willing to take on salary) and they don’t have trade pieces the Padres want (we’ve come to terms with Padres wish lists at least twice, by accounts on various MLB blogs, only to be queried about additional pieces).
In the meanwhile, I think the Braves need to work in-house; re-sign Smoltz and posture towards making it look as if that’s all we’re going to do; get that OF bat we truly desperately need. Then, if Towers comes, hat-in-hand, we’ll consider what he has to say.
If he doesn’t, he’ll be out of work, the Padres will eventually get less than they would’ve if they’d just dealt with us all along, and we’ll find out if our new generation of starters has what it takes to take that next step in 2009.
We went through a horrendous 1990 and saw Glavine and Smoltz and Avery get shelled - uncertain as to their futures. Then 1991 happened.
I’m perfectly fine with watching my Braves take their lumps w/out over-paying for unproven pitching parts, personally.
Peavy or Greinkie’s all I’d even take an interest in trading for, at this point.
By The Bottom Line
December 11, 2008 10:51 PM | Link to this
Vorp Peavey and Towers.(What the hells a “vorp”)?
By chris r.
December 11, 2008 10:53 PM | Link to this
The Yankees are in the Teixiera sweepstakes now as well. Just read this on SI.com
By Doc Holliday
December 11, 2008 10:54 PM | Link to this
If the Braves and the Yanks are the only 2 teams remaining as front runners for AJ, and the Yanks made such a good offers……..wouldnt it be over by now? All this makes me think that AJ likes the idea of coming to Atl. That being said, Braves wont have to offer much more than the yanks to land him. The is still some hope……..go braves!!!!!!!
By nolie
December 11, 2008 10:54 PM | Link to this
you right, signing Smoltz now is a key move we’ve been overlooking, but he may be our only ace which can be enough with an effective offense Kirk
which is of course exactly what he has been working at getting y’all to believe. Let’s see if he really continues to improve for a bit more, B4 handing him the keys to the mint. I’m all for having him back, but he is 41 and that was a major surgery, and no matter what it looks like this early, there is no way to know at this point how effective he might become.
He seems to be pushing for more than a low guarantee, high incentive contract, in the exact same way he has always leaked the same kinda inferences to the press each time he has had a contract come up.
I would feel more comfortable with the incentive laden contract until we can be pretty certain that he is gonna continue to feel good while pitching. I seriously doubt that he is going anywhere in the next 6 weeks as long as the Braves stroke his ego and assure him that they will take care of him.
By TennesseePaul
December 11, 2008 10:59 PM | Link to this
SteveOH: No problem. I’ll waffle back and forth between the two until they’ve proven themselves. But in the mean time I ran the query on my database to pull up some other notables. I was curious as to what these guys had done by the age of 20 in the minors. Looking mostly at the XBH+BB-K results… Here they are:
What does this prove? That as a “stat head” I “follow the minors” and I’m alright with math, spreadsheets and the whatnot. Other than that I just find it interesting to look at