AJC > Sports > Braves > Blog > Archives > 2008 > December > 08 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USMaddux will be missed; could Ankiel be a Brave?
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Las Vegas — He walked among us as just another guy, with an rather unimpressive physique and a wonderful whacked-out, self-deprecating sense of humor.
But atop the pitcher’s mound, Greg Maddux was not just another guy. Or even just another major league ace.
He was a pitching god. The best I’ve ever seen. An absolute master. The smartest, craftiest, and most aware baseball player - not just pitcher - that I ever had the privilege of covering or just watching.
Oh, and did I mention, a joy to be around? He really was. Made you glad you did something like this for a living, he was that special.
And yes, there was that penchant for sick humor and practical jokes, most of them unfit to be discussed here (teammates knew not to reach into the bin of sanitary socks without looking first, for Maddux was known to leave something, uh, unsanitary).
I could tell you about how he (allegedly) urinated in the hot tub when he was a young Cubs pitcher, that story told to me years ago by Andre Dawson, who was in the big tub with a couple of other Cubs veterans when young Maddux informed them that he’d relieved himself in it a few minutes earlier.
Most of the stories are funnier, but also more offensive.
Maddux was the neighbor most of us would probably like to hang out with, to watch a ballgame and have a beer with.
It was remarkable to think that one who was capable of being so immature (in a good way) at times, could be so ferocious and dedicated when it came to pitching, and so brilliant when discussing any aspect of the game, not just pitching.
He was a relentless competitor, pitching through aches and seldom producing less than an exemplary, often overwhelming, performance.
“Greg Maddux is the best artist I ever saw paint a baseball game,” the Hall of Fame pitcher Don Sutton told me this morning. “And the most secure, confident-within-himself pitcher I watched work.
“Some of the things he could forsee happening in a game, and the ways he could manipulate hitters, I’ve never seen anyone else do. I wish I could have played with him - through osmosis, I probably would have won 50 more games. He may be the smartest baseball man I’ve ever been around.”
Sutton was a Braves broadcaster, of course, during the Big Three heyday of Braves pitching, when Maddux, Glavine and Smoltz ruled the roost in the majors’ best rotations, year after year after year.
“That group there in Atlanta was amazing,” Sutton said. “They would watch every pitch and dissect, which you don’t see other pitching staffs do. Maddux, Smoltz and Glavine made each other better.
“In my mind, the Phi Beta Kappa of the group was Maddux. He was absolutely brilliant.”
Well said, Don.
Yes, the broke the mold when them made Maddux. I don’t expect to ever see another pitcher as great as him, much as I don’t expect to see a basketball player as great as Michael Jordan.
I am certain I will never know another pitcher as smart and unassuming, and with such a sense of humor.
I filed a long story that should be posted at our website soon, but here’s a few other Maddux quotes that didn’t make it in the story.
Maddux on:
His years with the Braves: ”Very special. We won all 11 years I was in Atlanta. They won before I got there and won every year I was there. And just to be around that atmosphere … I remember Bobby talking about in spring training, that we were getting ready for the postseason. We weren’t getting ready for the season, we were getting ready for the postseason. We did a little bit less in spring training because we knew our season was going to be seven months, not six.
“We had that winning attitude back in February. Bobby, thank you, for everything you taught me about the game. Leo as well, and all the coaches. I just had a lot of coaches that taught me so much about the game, that hopefully I’ll use in the future and pass down as time goes on.”
On whether he ever wondered what might’ve been if he never left Chicago:: “A little bit. Not a whole lot. You know, when I left Chicago I was not ready to leave. Buy sometimes the grass is greener on the other side. You know, I got a chance to win in Atlanta, and win a lot.
“To share that with guys like Smoltzy, Glav, Avery, Kevin Millwood, all the guys I had a chance to pitch with … it was pretty cool. And just to go there and actually learn how to have fun, and to play golf between starts. Smoltz always had something set up [to play golf]; that was pretty cool.
“To meet people from all over the country on the golf course, and at the same time win ever year, and to have such an enjoyment to go to the park every day. I think winning creates that, and it was nice to be a part of that.”
On possibly coaching or managing in the future: “You know, I might. Right now I want to take a year off and spend time with the family, do things that I haven’t been able to do because of baseball, and see if I like it. I assume I’ll like it, but I also don’t know how bad I’m gonna miss the game.
“I mean, baseball is all I know. I don’t really know a whole lot about anything, but I think I know a few things about baseball. I’m gonna miss it, and hopefully I don’t miss it too much. I haven’t gotten to that point yet. Right now it’s kind of a long offseason for me, doing things I’ve done for the last 20 offseasons. Nothing’s really different for me [yet].
On the Braves-Mets rivalry and games at Shea Stadium: “It was fun. It was always fun to go to New York. We had Chipper on our team, and Chipper always used to do big things there. It was fun watching the guys play there, and it was also fun being part of it.
“Shea Stadium is one of the best places to play baseball, and especially when the Mets were good. For us to go there, I’ll just never forget it. There was a smell, there were just some things about Shea Stadium that felt like, this is a pretty cool place to be.”
On his amazing run in the ‘90s:: I guess you just get locked in. You’re comfortable with what you’re trying to do with the baseball…. There weren’t too many pitchers that threw the way I threw, and hitters didn’t see it a lot. I think that was a big advantage at the time. You know, you just kind of have a couple of good games and start on a roll from there.”
On learning from Tom Glavine:: “I think probably the biggest thing I learned pitching alongside Glavine, was to realize you don’t have to be 100 percent to win. You have to take the ball and you have to go out there. That’s what he taught me. Because before I got to Atlanta, I had always felt pretty good. Physically, it was no big deal making a start.
“Sometimes it’s really easy to say, I need another day or two. But in Atlanta, we pitched. I think Tommy led the way with that. He showed everybody that if you go out there, if you could throw the ball over the plate you had a chance to win, no matter how bad you felt. That’s probably one of the biggest things I learned from Glav, was how to compete when you’re not feeling your best.”
On pitch movement: “I was just very fortunate. When I was 15 or 16 years old, I had a pitching coach, Ralph Medar, who taught me that movement was more important than velocity. And I believed him. I don’t know why I believed him, but I believed him. At a young age, he taught me about movement and started learning how to pitch. I wasn’t learning how to throw; I threw hard enough. But I learned that movement was more important than velocity, and changing speeds was more important than velocity, and location was more important than velocity…. It just kind of went from there.”
On what he’d think about being called the Greatest Living Pitcher, after someone mentioned to him that Joe DiMaggio used to request that he [DiMaggio] be referred to as the Greatest Living Ballplayer in his latter years before he died:
“Well, it’d be a nice compliment. I’m very proud of what I did on the baseball field, but I never really considerd myself as things like that. I like to think I’m the same person I was 20 years ago. Just a few things have changed. But as far as how I think of myself, I don’t think of myself that way.”
On what he’d do to improve the game if he were King of Baseball for a day:
“There’s really not a lot you can do to improve it. The game is almost perfect the way it is. I think this game’s played now the way it was played 100 years ago. I think that’s the beauty of it. It might just be a little faster, that’s about it. But I think the game itself, there’s really nothing wrong with it. Players are probably better now than they were before, but they’ll probably be better in 20 years than they are now. That’s just the way it is. It’s hard to change something that’s pretty close to perfect.
His thoughts about the Hall of Fame in five years: I don’t really have any thoughts right now at this moment. There’s a lot of good players in there. I don’t really have any thoughts. I know my son’s got a tournament there [in Cooperstown, N.Y.] next summer. I’m looking forward to going there to watch him play, and hopefully get a chance to look around.”
On one of the secrets of his success; “I would like to think my wife. Part of why I had so much success on the field was, for me, everything was very simple for me at home. If I got home late after a road trip, I was allowed to sleep in. On days I was pitching, I was left alone and had lunch made for me at 2 o’clock before I went to the park. I had everything taken care of me away from the park, so the only thing I had to worry about anything was when I was on the mound. For that I thank you [look at his wife, Kathy, in the front row].
Then Maddux drew laughs when he added that he hoped his wife would continue making him lunch every day for a while.
On what he’ll miss most now that he’s retired: “I’ll miss the game. I’ll miss all of it. I’ll miss pitching. I’ll miss hitting, running the bases. I’ll miss sitting on the bench and trying to get what pitch is coming next and where it’s going to be hit. I’ll miss those kinds of things.
“Obviously I’ll miss the four days off between starts and I’ll miss hanging out with the guys. I really enjoyed playing golf on the road over the years with the guys. That made it even more enjoyable when you’d go to the ballpark, because you’d have a break from just sitting in your hotel room all day waiting for the game to start.
“I’ll miss the plane flights, and the poker games on the flights. That was fun. Just hanging out with the guys. Spring training was always fun. Spring training, to me, was a blast. Spring training is where you get to go and do baseball stuff. Down in Orlando we’d spend a lot of time going to amusement parks with the family, taking the kids to do all that.
“So many things that go in baseball have nothing to do with the first through ninth innings that I’ll miss. And I’m sure as time goes by, I’ll miss them even more.”
His closing remarks at the news conference: “Again, I just want to say thank you for everything. The game has given me and my family so much, that I just want to say thank you. And the one thing I hope is, I hope that I gave back. I played the game the way I want my teammates to play it. Again, thank you for everything. I’ll miss it. Thanks you.”
Me, I’ll really miss Greg Maddux. The game will miss him. Everything about him. Bet you all feel the same.
OK, back to the meetings: We’re in a bit of a holding pattern regarding the pitching pursuit, waiting for an A.J. Burnett decision. But I am hearing things that lead me to think that the free agent right-hander might make a decision this week and not necessarily wait for CC Sabathia to decide first.
We’ll see about that. I’d guess it’ll take a guaranteed five-year offer from the Braves to make that happen, for otherwise A.J. seems more likely to wait and see if Sabathia spurns the Yankees and Brian Cashman decided to throw more money and a guaranteed fifth year at A.J. in order to make sure the Yanks aren’t shut out by the few aces available.
The Braves last week offered A.J. a four-year deal with a fifth-year option, worth at least $15 mill annually. They’ve given off signals that they would make that fifth-year guaranteed if that’s absolutely necessary to get Burnett signed, but they obviously would prefer to avoid that, given his DL stints for elbow and shoulder soreness in the past.
Insurers generally only insure contracts for three years, and clubs have to renew the policy after that period, provided the player is healthy. If a pitcher got hurt in, say, the third year of a five-year guaranteed deal worth $15 mill annually, well, that would be a potentially big blow for a team that has any sort of payroll restrictions (i.e., probably any team not named the Yankees).
The power-bat pursuit: Though Frank Wren has indicated the Braves might not make a deal for a run-producing outfielder until spring training or even during the season, there are indications they could get it done before then with a Cardinals outfielder not named Ludwick.
How does Rick Ankiel sound? The former lefty pitcher-turned-center fielder is available, and the Cardinals are said to prefer trading him instead of Ludwick because Ludwick will still be cheap for several more years. Braves would probably have to give up at least Kelly Johnson to get Ludwck, and the Cardinals might even demand Yunel Escobar.
But not for Ankiel, who’s eligible for free agency after the 2009 season, and a Scott Boras client the Cardinals probably have no confidence they could afford to re-sign.
The Braves might prefer Ankiel over Ludwick anyway, since Ludwick’s 37-homer, 113-RBI season in 2008 was far and away his career best, and at age 29. The Braves, like other teams, have questions as to whether Ludwick could reasonably be expected to replicate that sort of performance, given that his previous bests in an injury-slowed big-league career were 14 homers and 52 RBI in 2007.
Ankiel has 36 homers and 110 RBI in 584 at-bats over two seasons since returning to the majors as an outfielder, after his promising pitching career went awry several years ago when he could no longer throw strikes consistently.
There is plenty of reason to believe Ankiel will continue developing as a hitter after batting .264 with 25 homers and 71 RBI in 120 games last season. And the other important thing that separates him from most available outfielders: He is strong defensively, in center and right field (and presumably in left, though he’s played that the least for St. Louis).
But he’s eligible for free agency after the upcoming season, which is why the Cardinals, looking for pitching in return, don’t really expect to get a promising starter for Ankiel. Maybe that take a proven young reliever as the principle in a deal?
The Braves could pencil in Ankiel for CF or LF in 2009, and could have him or Jordan Schafer ready to play RF if, for whatever reason, Jeff Francoeur doesn’t bounce back from his poor 2008 season and gets dealt eventually.
Cox said Monday that he thinks Francoeur will bounce back and drive in 100 runs, etc. But hey, what else is he going to say?
Frank Wren reiterated Monday that team officials see LF Matt Diaz fitting on the Braves in some capacity.
Thinking aloud here, maybe Ankiel could move between a couple of outfield positions and Diaz could play a lot against lefties (Ankiel hit .224 with a .716 OPS against lefties, compared to .279 with an .891 OPS against righties).
The Braves continue to express interest in Seattle free agent corner outfielder Raul Ibanez, 36, a .286 career hitter with more than 20 homers in each of the past four seasons, 30-plus doubles for seven straight seasons, and 338 RBI in the past three seasons.
Problem is, Ibanez is getting plenty of other interest from some big-market teams, and could end up commanding a deal as long as three years and for perhaps $10 mill or more annually. That’s more years and dollars than the Braves want to pay for a merely serviceable defensive player of his age.
Also hearing Brewers shortstop J.J. Hardy and free agent Rafael Furcal still being mentioned in connection with the Braves again, which leads me to believe the Braves are indeed still at least talking to teams interested in Escobar or deals that might possibly include him.
(Personally, I’d trade him for nothing short of an ace pitcher.)
And though I’ve heard nothing about them revisiting talks for Jake Peavy, wouldn’t surprise me if Padres GM Kevin Towers came knocking at Frank Wren’s door (or at least ringing his cell) if things stay stalled with other teams that seem to be getting colder on Peavy all the time.
One way or another, I’m really starting to get a feeling that Escobar could be traded this winter.
Blogmeister addendum: Right after I wrote that last sentence about Escobar, Cox provided this quote that could certainly be viewed as a reason to believe the Braves won’t trade Escobar:
“I think he’s a special talent, and I certainly want him on our team,” Cox said. “He’s as good a shortstop as we’ve ever had here. He can do so much. He’s going to hit right at .300, I think, ever year. He’s got the type of mechanics that allows me to say that. He stays inside the ball so well, and he’s an extremely gifted shortstop. A pair of the best hands you’d ever see, and he’s got a great arm. And he’s strong. If he wants to, he could hit in the 20s [home runs].”
”THE HIGHWAYMAN” by Jimmy Webb
I was a highwayman
Along the coach roads I did ride
With sword and pistol by my side
Many a young maid lost her baubles to my trade
Many a soldier shed his life blood on my blade
The bastards hung me in the spring of ‘25
But I am still alive
I was a sailor
I was born upon the tide
And with the sea I did abide
I sailed a schooner ‘round the horn to Mexico
I went aloft to furl the mainsail in a blow
And when the yards broke off they said that I got killed
But I am living still
I was a dam builder
Across the river deep and wide
Where steel and water did collide
A place called Boulder on the wild Colorado
I slipped and fell into the wet concrete below
They buried me in that great tomb that knows no sound
But I am still around.
I’ll always be around, and around, and around, and around, and around…
I’ll fly a starship
Across the Universe divide
And when I reach the other side
I’ll find a place to rest my spirit if I can
Perhaps I may become a highwayman again
Or I may simply be a single drop of rain
But I will remain
And I’ll be back again
and again, and again, and again, and again….
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Comments
By 18 Wheels of Love
December 8, 2008 7:09 PM | Link to this
Peterbilt
Peterbilt
By Johnny Rocker
December 8, 2008 7:09 PM | Link to this
go braves!
By Mike S
December 8, 2008 7:10 PM | Link to this
Personally, I would prefer trading for Ludwick over Ankiel (or Hermida or Hart).
By doc
December 8, 2008 7:14 PM | Link to this
i had a felling something might be brewing, to repost:
DOB just read the articel on mad dog retiring, what a class act from start to finish. only thing good about his retirement is that he seemed to leave the door open to becoming a coach or more down the road. it would be fantastic if he were to bring such a demeanor back to the game.
on another note i will be in las vegas wednesday to saturday afternoon staying at the venetian. would be pleased to buy a round and a cigar if you have the time dob and arent hob nobbing too much. i’ll be there for a conference.
btw, excellent article about maddox going.
By 18 Wheels of Love
December 8, 2008 7:18 PM | Link to this
Maddux in the hot tub….
“It’s all tubes!”
By Ernest
December 8, 2008 7:19 PM | Link to this
Has anyone discussed Bobby Abreu as a possibility for left field? He could probably hold down that spot for 2-3 years until our baby braves on the farm are ready for the big leagues. His stats look good and we should not have to give up a player for him.
By nolie
December 8, 2008 7:21 PM | Link to this
Ankiel,Hermida, Hart? These are the proven run producers that Wren claimed we we going after? No wonder I’m as cynical as i am. ;-)
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
December 8, 2008 7:21 PM | Link to this
If the Braves have to offer a guaranteed 5th year to get a deal done and avoid the Yankees and their unlimited resources getting involved, I say do it. Like I said last night, I am not sure why there is a buzz that AJ could sign before CC, but there obviously is. I hope it happens…like tonight!
By ChopChopHipHop
December 8, 2008 7:22 PM | Link to this
“”DOB”“, if the Braves deal for Ankiel, do they also go after Raul Ibanez? I’m assuming they deal for JJ Hardy instead of going after Rafael Furcal.
By Goodoleboy58
December 8, 2008 7:23 PM | Link to this
I would prefer to get Hart… He’d be a perfect fit for what we are looking for
By Joe M.
December 8, 2008 7:23 PM | Link to this
MetsBlog:
Meanwhile, in a recent on-air report for ESPN News, ESPN.com’s Peter Gammons said representatives for A.J. Burnett will meet with the Braves this week in Las Vegas, in hopes of quickly working on an agreement.
…the buzz from Vegas suggests burnett likes the idea of pitching in Atlanta, and could end up signing a four-year deal, despite rumors that he requires a fifth guaranteed season…that, plus no other teams appears willing to give it to him…
Gammons and Steve Phillips seem to think the Braves are close, while Jayson Stark seems to think the Yankees are getting in on the Braves’ Burnett turf. We’ll see.
Kelly Johnson for one year of Rick Ankiel seems a rip-off. Ankiel is a free agent after 2009 and his agent is Scott Boras. I thought it’d be an okay deal because I didn’t think the Cardinals would actually demand one of the Braves’ two good incumbent middle infielders for one year of Rick Ankiel. Sigh.
The Braves still don’t plan to trade both middle infielders this offseason, right?
By flylikeeagle05
December 8, 2008 7:23 PM | Link to this
Outstanding post. I enjoyed watching Maddux, Glavine, and Smoltz throughout my childhood. My dad introduced me to the Braves in the last 1980’s and been an avid Braves supporter ever since. I have seen few Maddux games at Turner Field and always enjoyed watching him pitching. I certainly hope we can get another pitcher that is durable as Mad Dog. Go Braves!
By Don!
December 8, 2008 7:24 PM | Link to this
One good thing about Greg Maddux: You KNOW he never used steroids.
Another good thing about Greg Maddux: The commercial he did with Tom Glavine: “Chicks Dig The Long Ball.”
Yet another good thing about Greg Maddux: He quit when he felt like it.
Heck, I can think of literally one hundred good things to say about Greg Maddux before I get to his wins, ERA, Cy Young awards, Gold Gloves and every other thing that comes with being the BEST pitcher in my lifetime … but the very best thing about Greg Maddux?
1995 World Series Champion.
Thanks for the memories Mad Dog!
Later,
Don!
By Psg81
December 8, 2008 7:24 PM | Link to this
U think maybe the braves may believe escobars shoulder may continue to be an issue with him and may be trying to trade him while his value is still high
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
December 8, 2008 7:25 PM | Link to this
In addition to the ESPN article stating the Yanks are requesting a meeting with AJ’s agent and willing to pay more than the Braves:
HEYMAN at SI:
LAS VEGAS — The Yankees are prepared to top the Braves’ reported $60 million four-year offer to star free-agent pitcher A.J. Burnett, according to people familiar with their thinking.
While the Yankees had been reluctant to give Burnett the full-fledged five-year deal he seeks,. they seem likely to offer a four-year deal for about $64 million. Burnett is being purused by the Jays, Orioles and Nationals as well.
Seriously, if we do not sign AJ, it will NOT be a good offseason! There is no other ace available, and we could get Barry Bonds in his prime to play LF, but without an ace; we are in serious trouble.
By Chuck James is solid until the 6th!! (Formerly Steve-O)
December 8, 2008 7:26 PM | Link to this
Just a few quick things on A.J. Burnett
First off watch this clip ( of his CG SHO against the Yanks late in the year. He makes multiple Perennial All-Stars look like Rookie Ball players K’ing A-Rod 3 times, Jeter a few, Giambi a few and made Damon look like he was 11 years old. DOB I believed you before but havn’t seen him pitch
By Chuck James is solid until the 6th!! (Formerly Steve-O)
December 8, 2008 7:27 PM | Link to this
Sorry my post was accidentlly posted early…
By Joe M.
December 8, 2008 7:31 PM | Link to this
SI:
LAS VEGAS — The Yankees are prepared to top the Braves’ reported $60 million four-year offer to star free-agent pitcher A.J. Burnett, according to people familiar with their thinking.
While the Yankees had been reluctant to give Burnett the full-fledged five-year deal he seeks,. they seem likely to offer a four-year deal for about $64 million. Burnett is being purused by the Jays, Orioles and Nationals as well.
Uh-oh.
By bruce
December 8, 2008 7:33 PM | Link to this
Really fine article and blog on Maddux… wish he would do a victory lap, but that is not his style. Thanks David.
By Braveheart
December 8, 2008 7:34 PM | Link to this
“There’s no reason for a guy with the ability of Yunel Escobar, what he’s done at this point early in his career, to be on the trading block. And there’s only one reason he’s on the trading block. And that’s sad,” Chipper Jones told 790 The Zone.
http://media.790thezone.com/podcasts/ChipperJonesPart_2.mp3
By Bob Dole
December 8, 2008 7:35 PM | Link to this
I like traffic lights.
By brian
December 8, 2008 7:35 PM | Link to this
I would have a hard time trading away many pieces for Ankiel since he will be a free agent soon. When exactly will he be a free agent or is he still in his arbitration years? We all know who his agent is. That being said he would be a huge upgrade over our OF and would be a nice piece to have for many years.
Unless the Braves are moving Escobar for Ankiel (I know this is asking Santa but if Escobar is moving Wainwright better be coming back to Atlanta as well) I do not see how we could move Escobar for a pitcher and then move KJ for Ankiel if the Braves do not want to start over with a new middle infield.
By Caleb
December 8, 2008 7:35 PM | Link to this
Ankiel has an absolute cannon of an arm. I live here in St. Louis, and some of the throws he made this past year were unbelievable. He nailed several runners at third and home with dead on ropes from the warning track.
By JR
December 8, 2008 7:37 PM | Link to this
No way we should give up KJ or YE for one year with a guy who hasn’t been an everyday player but for less than a season. I would much rather have Hermida or Corey Hart than Ankiel. JJ Hardy would be a great pickup, but I really can’t see that happening. If we can get Ankiel without giving up KJ or YE then do it otherwise keep’em or go for much bigger talent.
By Braveheart
December 8, 2008 7:39 PM | Link to this
Kelly Johnson was the worst defensive regular in the majors at second last season and was the second worst defensive second baseman in the majors the last two seasons combined, behind only Cigar Store Indian Jeff Kent
By Wilson
December 8, 2008 7:40 PM | Link to this
I was really hoping Maddux, Glavine, and Smoltz would retire at the same time so they could go in the HOF together. That would be a great induction ceremony.
By Steve from OH
December 8, 2008 7:40 PM | Link to this
I’d be ok with Ankiel. Dude’s got some pop, and between him, Schafer, and a properly conditioned Francoeur, that would be one heck of an OF defense (provided Ankiel doesn’t start launching any throws into the 10th row again, lol). I’m a bit worried about his OBP, but he’s had only 500-some odd AB as a full-time starter, I’d expect it to rise a little bit into the .340’s or low .350’s, which is perfectly acceptable if he’s hitting 30 homers. Especially since the guys likely batting around him (Chipper, B-Mac and Kelly) are great OBP guys.
I would think JoJo Reyes and James Parr would be more than enough to get it done. I’m not even sure I’d offer that much…but again, I’m not a GM and I’ve really got no idea how these valuations work. We shouldn’t even need to think about giving up any top-10 prospects. Well, we’d better not, at least.
By N8
December 8, 2008 7:41 PM | Link to this
Rosenthal is now reporting (as of 7:29) that the Phillies have entered the Peavy sweepstakes.
Oy.
By Braveheart
December 8, 2008 7:44 PM | Link to this
Raul Ibanez is the second worst defensive leftfielder in the majors the last three seasons combined, only barely better than Manny but even worse than slugs like Dunn and Burrell:
http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=rf&stats=fld&lg=all&qual=y&type=0&season=2008&month=12
By brAves Sucios
December 8, 2008 7:44 PM | Link to this
I like Ankiel, sounds like he could come fairly cheap and I’m still not sold on Johnson or Escobar… but if we move them both we need to do it now so there’s still options out there to take their places. These possibilities certainly make me feel better, b/c a series of small, relatively inexpensive upgrades could make a huge difference without depleting the farm system or breaking the bank while giving our young players more time to develop and slowly get rotated into the big club. Our big splash pickups the past five or six years have tended to be the ones that have been the biggest bombs (Hampton, Tex) while the smaller pieces and prospects we’ve picked up (Norton, Jair) have become important players for the club. Go after an ace, but keep hording potential prospects and experienced workhorses and I think we’ll be a stronger team for years to come.
By bigchiefrg
December 8, 2008 7:44 PM | Link to this
DOB… Have read almost every Braves word you have written for at least the last 5 years (although I never post)…The mad dog article takes the cake in my opinion. Due to your extraordinary work, I feel like I am part of the team sometimes and really know these guys.
Thanks a bunch…Here’s to hoping you dont have to write a similar for smoltzie for at least a couple of years.
By Deon Sanders
December 8, 2008 7:46 PM | Link to this
Where McCarver at?
By Apollo
December 8, 2008 7:48 PM | Link to this
DOB, Why would the Braves trade Escobar for a left handed hitter with only one year left on his contract? It doesn’t seem to make much sense with how everything that Frank Wren has said has been “Righthanded Power bat”. Would it really be worth while to trade Escobar for a guy that would be simply there to fill the void until the minor league talent gets here?
By Reality
December 8, 2008 7:48 PM | Link to this
Oh boy, Braveheart is going on another of his anti-KJ, pro-Prado tangents. The Bill James fielding Bible had Johnson ahead of Prado on defense at second base last I checked. Also the list linked shows only 17 players (out of 30 MLB 2Bs) for some reason.
By I can't take it anymore
December 8, 2008 7:50 PM | Link to this
really nice article, david. what a player maddux was. i wont lose sleep if escobar and his attitude go, put i would be upset to see kelly leave. just like him so much better. his set up in the box and swing are just so awesome.
By ernesto
December 8, 2008 7:50 PM | Link to this
I’m not sold on KJ, he’s just too streaky.
But that being said, trading him for a year of Ankiel is a rip off.
I’d rather take a gamble on KJ’s upside, than to give him up for just a year of Ankiel.
By ernesto
December 8, 2008 7:51 PM | Link to this
And Ankiel for Yunel is a straight up rip off.
By Alan
December 8, 2008 7:52 PM | Link to this
DOB, great stuff about Maddux, easily the best pitcher in my lifetime — and I’ve been around a long time. The quotes from Bobby, Leo, Smoltz, Glavine and especially Sutton are terrific. I agree wholeheartedly with you: Maddux deserves to be the first-ever, first-ballot, unanimous Hall of Famer. As for the winter meetings, I’m hoping the Braves can sign Burnett, but I have a feeling the Yankees may swoop in and snatch him. I read elsewhere today that the Cardinals are going to make an offer, too — perhaps they already have. And speaking of the Cardinals, I also would prefer to trade for Ankiel over Ludwick, but I’d be reluctant to part with Johnson and I’d absolutely refuse to give up Escobar for him. Certainly not one-for-one. The rest of this week figures to be very interesting.
By Question
December 8, 2008 7:54 PM | Link to this
Braveheart, why is he on the trading block? What’s the reason? Why is it sad?
By Bobby's Cox
December 8, 2008 7:56 PM | Link to this
Greg Maddux is the best artist I ever saw paint a baseball game,” the Hall of Fame pitcher Don Sutton told me this morning
Dude, didn’t Sutton use to say the exact same words in his broadcasts?
Wish i was there to see the ceremony.
By RC
December 8, 2008 7:56 PM | Link to this
IF Escobar gets traded for Ankiel, the Braves are certain to demand another prospect to be thrown into the deal. Braveheart, I can’t get the Chipper clip from 790 to play…I’m assuming that quote was an allusion to Yunel’s attitude, but can’t tell reading it in text. Sound that way to you?
By ShawnB
December 8, 2008 7:57 PM | Link to this
nolie…. where have you seen Hermida and Hart mentioned as being on the Braves radar? I certainly havent’ seen any mention of those two from DOB or Bowman.
By FloridaBrave
December 8, 2008 7:58 PM | Link to this
Johnson/Escobar for Ankiel is a ridiculous trade for the Braves. I like Ankiel, but he’s a year away from free agency and Scott Boras is his agent. We cannot give up a young, talented, controllable middle infielder for a rental.
These types of deals have hurt the Braves in the past (JD Drew and Mark Teixeira).
The Braves would have to get a significant second piece to do this trade, IMO.
By Mike
December 8, 2008 7:58 PM | Link to this
Congrats on a great career to my favorite player ever. Maddux was what baseball is all about. Now, can someone please tell me why we can’t do better than Ankiel, Ludwick, and Cory hart. None of these guys are the answer. We need a guy with some pop, a guy who will make pitchers think twice about pitching around Chipper. These guys are not the answer.
By Drew
December 8, 2008 7:58 PM | Link to this
I met Maddux in the Braves locker room during a game against the Expos when I was introduced to him by my former American Legion coach, Phil Niekro. Little did I know that when I was 17, I’d be standing in between over 600 total major league wins and over 6,000 strikeouts.
Coolest thing I’ve ever done.
Thanks Phil!
By Braveheart
December 8, 2008 7:59 PM | Link to this
http://ussmariner.com/2008/07/22/why-keeping-ibanez-might-make-sense/
His defense is, of course, horrible. There’s no denying this - he’s one of the very worst defensive players still being allowed to carry a glove. Every advanced defensive metric shows this to be true. His Fielding Bible +/- is -14 plays (or about -12 runs) so far this year. His UZR is -18. This follows exactly in line with what we’d expect, considering how bad he’s been with the glove the last few years.
Even if you want to take a conservative estimate of his defensive value so far this year, the best you can claim is that he’s been 10 runs below average. It’s almost certainly more than that, but if you want to play devil’s advocate, you could argue for a 10 run defensive penalty and not be totally crazy.
+5 with the bat, -10 with the glove… you do the math. Raul Ibanez is less valuable than the average left fielder, and every good organization in baseball knows it. They aren’t giving up premium prospects for a below average player who, over the course of two months, won’t even add half a win over a replacement level player to a contender’s ledger.
That’s the predicament the M’s find themselves in. Raul Ibanez isn’t very good, and the smart teams in baseball realize that, but the free agent compensation system is so out of touch with reality that the M’s will be highly rewarded for letting him walk this winter. For what Ibanez is, you should expect at most a B- prospect in return, except that you’ll be getting the chance at something much better by just letting him leave via free agency.
By Bobby's Cox
December 8, 2008 8:00 PM | Link to this
Oh boy, Braveheart is going on another of his anti-KJ, pro-Prado tangents
Since when has Braveheart ever been on that side of the equation. He’s usually telling me how dumb I am for being on that side.
He’s just stating the facts, and it’s nice to see. Keep on keepin’ on Braveheart.
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
December 8, 2008 8:02 PM | Link to this
If pitching were medical science, Greg Maddux would be a brain surgeon. He was the quintessential quit assassin on the mound.
Unlike the reaction of so many opposing players who fail in the batters box while throwing bats, kicking water coolers and cursing the pitcher who just got them out, Greg Maddux elicited a different reaction.
He would strike out the player or just allow the batter to get himself out and the guy would invariably slink back to the dugout in utter confusion, sometimes stealing a glance back at the mound with the questionable look of, what the hell just happened.
Maddux understood the game within the game within the game. He could see the contest of baseball in three dimensions, knowing where to locate the perfect pitch, seeing the reaction of the batter in his head before even releasing the ball from his hand. The result was predictable, at least in the mind of Greg Maddux.
Maddux never let on to or acknowledged his own intelligence. The man was smarter than anybody knew and he kept it to himself, only sharing his wisdom with teammates. The professor was utterly self deprecating with no ego, an encyclopedic knowledge of how to defeat hitters and of course, an incredible ability to locate, locate, locate.
Mad Dog was humble, a perfectionist and fiercely competitive.The combination was deadly efficient. it was an honor to have watched him pitch. Greg, enjoy your retirement. Cooperstown beckons with open arms.
By sean
December 8, 2008 8:02 PM | Link to this
Why do we want Ankiel? If I’m trading Kelly, or anyone else of much value, it’s not going to be for a rental. It’s trades like this that put us in the position that we’re in currently.
By Efrim
December 8, 2008 8:03 PM | Link to this
How does Rick Ankiel for Kelly Johnson or Yunel Escobar make any sense at all?
Isn’t Ankiel a free agent after 2009? And a Boras client at that? It doesn’t make any sense to trade Escobar or Johnson for him. I really hope the Braves don’t go down that path.
As far as Hardy goes, wouldn’t they ask for Hanson or Jurrjens back for a guy who has three years left before free agency?
Lastly, if the Braves need to guarantee 5 years for Burnett, I think they should do it.
By NCBravesFan
December 8, 2008 8:03 PM | Link to this
Great post, DOB! What an amazing few months its been on the blog - the collapse of the Braves over the summer, the death of Skip and the retirement of Pete. And now, offseason drama - hoping against hope that the Braves can make some moves to get back in the thick of things heading to spring training.
This post reminds us all about how very good we had it in the 90s, and how very fortunate we were to witness Greg Maddux all those years. But I think for me, beyond the sheer excellence - Greg Maddux reminds me why I love the game of baseball so much.
Thanks again for a great recap - and best wishes to the Mad Dog!
By Jeff
December 8, 2008 8:07 PM | Link to this
Wren should be fired if he trades Esco for any player with only one year left on their contract, Ankiel included.
Furthermore, I agree with Chipper Jones regarding Esco being on the trade block, tis sad.
By Bobby's Cox
December 8, 2008 8:07 PM | Link to this
Esco for Ankiel?
Who’s believing this crap?
Didn’t the Cards just trade for Green? What the hell do they need Esco for?
There’s no way that goes down. Ever.
In other views, Hart is garbage. If you think Frenchy kills rallys, wait till surfer dude Hart comes to the plate.
No thanks to Hart. I can live with Ankiel, but not for Esco.
Nelson Cruz is sounding better & better. Where’s he at on the list?
By Bubdylan
December 8, 2008 8:08 PM | Link to this
Drew, that’s awesome.
By Efrim
December 8, 2008 8:08 PM | Link to this
Bowman:
Because Ankiel will be eligible for free agency following the 2009 season, the Braves likely wouldn’t have to provide as much as they would to get Hart, who will be arbitration-eligible for the next three seasons.
But with Ankiel being a Scott Boras client who might only be around for one season, there is reason for the Braves to be reluctant about what they might offer the Cardinals.
Again, one year of Rick Ankiel isn’t equal to 4 years of Yunel Escobar or 3 years of Kelly Johnson. It just isn’t. Especially for a Braves org. that has little to no middle infield prospects in the minors.
By Bobby's Cox
December 8, 2008 8:09 PM | Link to this
Man,
I really agree with Chipper on most issues.
It is sad that Esco is on the block. Why is that? There’s no reason he should be. Keep talkin’ chip.
Prado is a great hitter.
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
December 8, 2008 8:11 PM | Link to this
Ok, I love Chip, but he called Escobar the best SS in the national league…
It doesn’t sound like he was bashing the Braves at all, but rather Escobar’s inability to control his emotions…
By Efrim
December 8, 2008 8:12 PM | Link to this
Rotoworlds take on a potential Hardy to Braves move:
The AJC’s David O’Brien is hearing J.J. Hardy being mentioned in connection with the Braves.
Hardy is more expensive than Yunel Escobar, and it’d likely cost more to acquire him than the Braves would get back if they moved Escobar in another deal. Maybe it’d somehow work out if the Braves were able to trade Escobar for Delmon Young, but that’s a long shot, and they’d still have to come up with a way to pry Hardy away. The Brewers would like request either Jair Jurrjens or Tommy Hanson.
By Bobby's Cox
December 8, 2008 8:15 PM | Link to this
I’m not sold on KJ, he’s just too streaky.
But that being said, trading him for a year of Ankiel is a rip off.
Exactly my thoughts Ernesto.
By brian
December 8, 2008 8:16 PM | Link to this
if we could get Ankiel for Brandon Jones plus Parr or JoJo then go for it. I would not trade away anything of significance for a 1 year rent a boras player
By Eric B
December 8, 2008 8:20 PM | Link to this
KJ or escobar for one year of Ankiel before Boras asks for the moon…no thanks. I’d rather go with B.Jones/Diaz in LF, Schafer in CF and Frenchy in RF. That would be a horrible trade, havent we learned our lesson trading for one year contracts when we’re more than 1 year away?
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
December 8, 2008 8:23 PM | Link to this
I can’t go to bed until I see at least one post from the Blog Master…
By Chuck James is solid until the 6th!! (Formerly Steve-O)
December 8, 2008 8:24 PM | Link to this
McFann I cant post links either… Thats not cool………………
Anyway, everyone should go to AJ Burnett’s MLB.com profile. And click on his (AJ Dominates Yankees game, last clip I believe..) Watch his utter dominance of MULTIPLE perennial All-Stars looking like T-Ball players. AJ looks like he faced nothing but the big playoff teams all late in the year and he shut em all down, stepping it up big time after the All-Star game going 8-2 with a 2.86 or so…And he DOMINATES the Yanks and Red Sox, literally owns them! AJ flat out out-dominates all the AL playoff teams over the last few years…
If we sign him and make it to the playoffs with Smoltz if healthy and Burnett healthy with Jurrjens we are in BIG time business to crush the 5 game serious and we have the depth in a 7 game serious especially with Glavine being able to come back. We all know he’s good for a 2009 season with like 14-8 with a 4.20 - 4.50 ERA and 175-200 IP if he’s healthy. I know were not relying on him but I have a strong feeling last year was a fluke after 17 pain free years and he’ll be back strong..Glav’s 42, Moyer is 46+ and look at his last season and Glav has 33% better skills at this point in his career.
Here is some interesting A.J.stats/info too, check these out everybody…………………………
I think A.J turned the corner with injuries..He’s started atleast 20+ games the last 7 years, averaging 25 starts a year minus his plagued season that he lost a year for the ever so common TJ Surgery…I think he’s ready to be a force in the NL East if you look what he did with the Marlins and what he did with the B-Jays, mostly against other #1 top noth starters, he dominated.
DOB Is AJ a ground ball or fly ball pitcher because I see his ERA is MUCH lower on grass then Blue Jays turf…Almost .75 run differntial between grass and turf…Great sign, and I think Chipper is right he can put up BIGTIME Cy Young numbers back in the NL East, undoubtedly…I say sign him and do whatever it taked because Perez, Garland, Wolf is TRASH upgrades, we got Vazquez which will put up big numbers under Bobby and laid back ATL and he doesn’t have a negative coach bashing him..
Anyway, again I think AJ has turned the corner on injuries….Still young and I think he will be a work horse for us like last year and those 9 K’s per 9 IP over his career is what you need in those playoff series…If we got a healthy Smoltz and AJ with Jurjjens for a game, with that fierce bullpen, especially if we retain Ohman. ATL would dominate these series. I also think Smoltz will come back strong this year, not because I’m biased, but even DOB will admit he is a freak of nature and probably the most resilient player in sports when coming back from injuries.
By James
December 8, 2008 8:25 PM | Link to this
Sign Maddux to a 1 day, $1.00 contract and let him throw one last pitch in a Braves Uniform. Unite Glavine, Smoltz, and Maddux one last time as Braves. That would be a ball game I would pay to see. It would be through teary eyes while remembering all of their younger days.
By Braveheart
December 8, 2008 8:25 PM | Link to this
Oh boy, Braveheart is going on another of his anti-KJ, pro-Prado tangents. The Bill James fielding Bible had Johnson ahead of Prado on defense at second base last I checked. Also the list linked shows only 17 players (out of 30 MLB 2Bs) for some reason.
Nah, ye shy anonymous lil’ wuss. Sorry, dude but KJ is not a good defender. Our eyeballs tell us that. The stats tell us that. Dude is brutal. Sorry. I know all of you latte sipping, khaki wearing KJ lovers just hate it when we kick dirt all over your tassled loafers by showing what a bad defender KJ is but, oh well, facts are the facts and the stats are the stats and they tell us that our lying eyes aren’t deceiving us when we watch that butcher at second.
And, no, I’ve never been pro-Prado. The only way Martin could ever start in the majors is for a last place team that doesn’t give two sh!ts how many games out of first they finish.
Go invent another bogus reason why the stats tell us KJ is as bad of a defender as our eyeballs say he is.
As for why only 17? Do you follow baseball? 17 qualifiers. Your KJ finished dead last. DEAD LAST. But since you were dumb enough to ask, below is the full list with qualifiers and without. Are you sure you want to see it? Your lil KJ ranks 196 out of 197 the last two years at second base. You outsmarted yourself there shy anonymous one.
http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=2b&stats=fld&lg=all&qual=n&type=0&season=2008&month=11
Oh and here he is third worst over the last two seasons for all second baseman with over 1000 innings:
http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=2b&stats=fld&lg=all&qual=1000&type=0&season=2008&month=11
By Andy K.
December 8, 2008 8:26 PM | Link to this
I hope Wren makes a move for Hardy….would be a great addition, and boost to the line-up
By Crazy Z
December 8, 2008 8:27 PM | Link to this
Trading Yunel Escobar for either Ankiel or Hart is awful. Unless it is Yunel for Corey Hart AND JJ Hardy. Then maybe it is ok.
By FloridaBrave
December 8, 2008 8:27 PM | Link to this
Absolutely, Efrim, Hardy would cost an arm in a leg and he’d definitely cost more than the return on Escobar. It almost leads me to think that the Braves are considering acquiring Hardy and moving him to the OF. Ludicrous? Maybe. No more so then trading Escobar for Ankiel and then surrendering the farm to fill that hole at SS.
Escobar/Johnson for Ankiel has to require another TOP prospect on St. Louis’ end.
If something goes down with Escobar, I can’t help but think Furcal will be their guy. Could he be holding out for the Braves? It was awfully suspicious of him flat
By ShawnB
December 8, 2008 8:30 PM | Link to this
OK, Nolie, I saw the Bowman story now. I agree that those guys aren’t the answer for LF. Wouldn’t mind Ankiel, but not for KJ or Escobar. Only way I think Escobar should be moved is for an All Star calibar player, because that’s what he will be in the next year or two.
By Spider29
December 8, 2008 8:31 PM | Link to this
DOB, thanks for the article and blog on the great Maddux. Who didn’t love watching him pitch? Even after he left the Braves, I watched many of his games via MLB Extra Innings. It was always a joy to watch a master. There will never be another three-some like Maddux, Smoltz and Glavine in our lifetime. Although I hate to see Mad Dog retire, I am glad he was able to do it on his terms. Good luck in retirement, Greg, and thanks for all the great pitching performances you gave the Braves and the fans.
By Tomas
December 8, 2008 8:34 PM | Link to this
Ankiel over Ludwick, no way. Ludwick is a much better hitter, plus is right handed. If the Braves trade Jo-jo Reyes, and Brandon Jones for Rick Ankiel I would say yes. But I wouldn’t trade Yunel Escobar, and Kelly Johnson for Rick Ankiel. No way.
If the Braves trade Escobar it needs to be for a starting pitcher. And regarding JJ Hardy, it would take a lot to get him. Furcal would be a better option.
By Braveheart
December 8, 2008 8:38 PM | Link to this
Escobar or KJ for one year of Ankiel would be about as braindead as it gets.
By David O'Brien
December 8, 2008 8:39 PM | Link to this
Bobby’s Cox, I tend to side with you on Ankiel for Escobar — I don’t think Braves would do that straight up. Especially not after hearing Bobby Cox (the real one) talk again about Escobar just while ago.
He raved about him again, said he wants him on his team, etc.
I think Braves would be more likely to trade Kelly or someone else (don’t know who) for Ankiel.
And while I don’t doubt the interest in Hermida, I don’t think it’s big interest. I mean, seriously, how is he a significant upgrade for the Braves? He’s not.
I don’t see that happening.
Corey Hart of the Brewers has been mentioned as possible trade bait by Milwaukee people, if they decide they need to shed payroll. But that also seems less-than-likely to me, and Braves would probably have to give up plenty to get him.
Wren just reiterated that the Braves, like most teams now, don’t want to give up prospects. If they could sign an affordable free agent instead of trading prospects, they would prefer to do that. Which is why Ibanez is attractive to them.
By Bravesfan09
December 8, 2008 8:39 PM | Link to this
I wonder if the Braves will retire Maddux’s number ?
By BCS Slave
December 8, 2008 8:41 PM | Link to this
Greg Maddux made me a baseball fan. His command, his demeanor, his competitiveness made me want to watch the game. Glavine and Smoltz each pitched differently, and they made me appreciate the diversity of the pitching discipline. I just wish The three of them could have gotten together again in Atlanta.
Greg, we have missed you in Atlanta and will miss your presence in the game! Come back and manage the Braves when Bobby retires!
By Chuck James is solid until the 6th!! (Formerly Steve-O)
December 8, 2008 8:44 PM | Link to this
Also, aquick quip on HARDY…i LOVE that he’s 26 and puttin these numbers up, I mean 45 2B’s and 20 HR, very solid BUT a .300 OBP and a tonnnn of K’s. I don’t think Hardy is a #4 hitter with his high K-rate and .300 OBP…He’s solid NO DOUBT as a #6 or so but not for in between Chip and Mc…You can’t have Hardy and Francoeur batting 4th and 6th respectively…Just TOOOO many K’s and low OBP’s…Hardy’s numbers are “sexy” as one dude on here refers to K’s…But I dont like the high K-Rates of him and Frenchy..I think JF will step it up this year being more athletic and having much more agility after droppin those roid-esque muscles…
By Chad
December 8, 2008 8:44 PM | Link to this
David O’Brien,
Thank you for your dedication to this blog. I’ve checked other national newspaper blogs and this is the best of the bunch. Just wanted to say thanks for keeping us informed year around. I hope you continue here for years to come.
By MizzouBravesFan
December 8, 2008 8:44 PM | Link to this
Burnett seems imminent to me and it wouldn’t shock me if we traded for Greinke either.
Bobby wants pitching, that is the focus.
His PC all but confirmed that.
By TomL
December 8, 2008 8:45 PM | Link to this
KJ for one year of Ankiel? No thanks
By Erik
December 8, 2008 8:45 PM | Link to this
DOB the price for Ankiel wouldn’t be KJ would it?
By David O'Brien
December 8, 2008 8:47 PM | Link to this
Both Cox and Wren basically dismissed any notion of Kelly Johnson in left field, by the way. Just in case anyone was wondering. Cox said again he thinks Kelly is too good at 2B to move. Also said both Prado and KJ have been targeted by several teams seeking them in trades….
Joe M, I wouldn’t fret too much over the Yankees being prepared to offer four years and $64 mill. Because I believe if it comes right down to that, if the Braves have to go five years guaranteed to get Burnett, I think they’ll do it. They don’t want to, but I think they almost see it as, they have to.
Wren reiterated tonight, when I asked him just now in his suite where he met with Bowman and me, that there have been no new discussions with Padres, nothing since Braves pulled out of talks four weeks ago.
Bobby Cox when I asked him about A.J. and possibly paying more or longer to get him: “You’ve got to do what you’ve got to do. He’s got a fabulous arm. He’s a guy who can go out there and, even when he doesn’t have his best stuff, can throw a no-hitter.”
While Bobby might be prone to hyperbole from time to time, I can attest to this being fact. That’s because I covered Burnett’s nine-walk no-hitter for Florida way back at the old stadium at San Diego.
By LKS
December 8, 2008 8:49 PM | Link to this
So…if Bobby doesn’t have the issue with Esco than who does???
By David O'Brien
December 8, 2008 8:51 PM | Link to this
Oh, and a few more pitching notes before I write a story for tomorrow’s paper on today’s non-moves and slow day at the meetings overall (things aren’t popping here yet, not much buzz, whether it’s economy or teams waiting for big dominoes to fall or whatever).
Anyway: Smoltz and Braves both are thinking starting rotation over bullpen for Smoltz, if he continues his progress.
Moylan is doing well and should be ready to pitch for the Braves either when spring training ends or shortly thereafter.
Soriano’s status, they won’t know much about until at least January, as far as whether he’ll be ready. I said earlier he’d be ready for spring; that’s not accurate, necessarily. He might be, but not a given.
Gonzalez WILL go to spring training as the closer. It’s his job. I asked Cox tonight, just to be clear.
By FloridaBrave
December 8, 2008 8:51 PM | Link to this
In all fairness, Hermida’s only 25 years old. He’s got the potential to be a middle of the order bat down the road. Albeit he’s not a middle of the order hitter YET, I still feel he’d be an upgrade now and would be with the Braves for quite some time.
I’d certainly take a team with Johnson and Hermida over a team with Ankiel and Prado, both now and especially in the future.
By skull
December 8, 2008 8:54 PM | Link to this
By Deon Sanders 7:46 post
Been away from BB too long?
Too many knocks in the head from the NFL?
Too many lame comments on the FB shows lately?
Who knows for sure what it was but you’ve forgotten how spell your own name!
By David O'Brien
December 8, 2008 8:54 PM | Link to this
Oh, and guess who was here today, of all people: Peavy.
He’s in town to watch the rodeo, apparently, and came over to see Maddux’s press conference. Nobody in the crowd even knew he was there, standing behind the curtain, until someone noticed him in a picture that was snapped of Maddux.
No one talked to him, that I know of. Again, don’t know that anyone even knew he was here, anyone in the media. Wren didn’t know he was here.
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
December 8, 2008 8:56 PM | Link to this
From Stark:
“But all signs now point toward Jake Peavy becoming a Cub, simply because the Padres — after holding out for weeks for the sweetest deal possible — now appear to have no other option.”
Really? And Towers wants to throw FW under the bus…with the writers in San Diego saying he is held in such high regard in the industry for his integrity…yadda, yadda, yadda…he screwed this up and EVERYONE knows it!!
By McFann O –[zzz]
December 8, 2008 8:58 PM | Link to this
Great Blog, Chief! Love the Maddux stories!!
Steve-O I cant post links either… Thats not cool……
No, it isn’t. I don’t know what the deal is…I used to be able to put losta links in one post—came in very handy during the season when I would compare BMac’s stats from one year to those in ‘08 or something.…It’s really gonna stink if I can’t get this resolved by Spring Training.
Braves, don’t trade Johnson…especially for Ankiel. But I read that piece of DOB’s to mean that it would take Escobar or Johnson to get Ludwick. But I could be wrong, as I have been many many many times.
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
December 8, 2008 9:00 PM | Link to this
Peavy was probably there to talk to Hendry and tell him how much integrity Towers has…
By wiki
December 8, 2008 9:01 PM | Link to this
Hard to believe Maddux never put a 24 or 25 win season together. He might’ve in ‘94 as dominant as he was that season if not for the strike.
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
December 8, 2008 9:01 PM | Link to this
Maddux should tell Peavy to go pair up with Smoltz, play for the best manager in baseball, and bring another trophy to the ATL!!
By JoshfromDEC
December 8, 2008 9:02 PM | Link to this
First time blogger, long time reader… On Maddux… Thanks for the blog DOB great quotes from Mad Dog. I am so thankful to have been a teenager during the 90’s and being able to witness first hand what will always be the greatest sustained rotation in history. Three hall of famers all in their prime, giving it their all while never being arrogant or boastful. They always spread credit to the others. They truly enjoyed each other and shared an unmatched passion for the total GAME of baseball. Many people on this blog and around the city criticize the Braves for their lack of overall postseason success and make comparisons to Arizona Toronto and Florida with their 2 championships to the Braves’ one in the same period. But I ask you would you (if you are truly the fan you claim to be of them game) trade witnessing “the big three” for over a decade in your own backyard, for one or two more titles…? I believe those who truly appreciate the intricacies of the game see just how special that was. Anyway enough rambling, GO BRAVES!
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
December 8, 2008 9:02 PM | Link to this
DOB, do you know if AJ’s agent has arrived yet? I hope FW meets with him as soon as he gets in…not sure why, but I just want to hear that they are talking! (:
By David O'Brien
December 8, 2008 9:03 PM | Link to this
Talked to a St. Louis writer who was in the media update with Cards GM. Said they aren’t looking to trade an outfielder for a position player, but rather for a pitcher.
And they don’t seem to think they’ll get a starting pitcher for whichever outfielder they trade. So maybe a reliever? I’m not quite clear on that, but sounds like that’s what they’re indicating.
Anyway, again it seems to dispel any idea of Escobar or even KJ for Ankiel.
By nolie
December 8, 2008 9:05 PM | Link to this
Kelly Johnson for one year of Rick Ankiel seems a rip-off. Ankiel is a free agent after 2009 and his agent is Scott Boras. Joe
I agree completely, plus he didn’t hit lefties worth a damn last season. Don’t we already have enough of those type hitters? I say an emphatic NO !.
By nolie
December 8, 2008 9:11 PM | Link to this
Raul Ibanez is the second worst defensive leftfielder in the majors the last three seasons combined, only barely better than Manny but even worse than slugs like Dunn and Burrell: Braveheart
I can’t tell you hoe little I think of defensive stats and their relativity and reliability. Not quite worthless, but way less reliable than either hitting or pitching ones. Very subjective
By Chuck James is solid until the 6th!! (Formerly Steve-O)
December 8, 2008 9:12 PM | Link to this
McFann
I saw someone else post a link before..I think we may just have to adjust some internet explorer things…But read my above post on AJ …Good stuff, but again DOB what kind of park is the Blue Jays?? Average? Because again Burnett gives up almost a run less AWAY then at his turf home and has great numbers on grass… Again U KNOW WHO was right about AJ…
By oletimer
December 8, 2008 9:12 PM | Link to this
DOB, I jus readed the post about Maddox and I can say it was great.
Maddox is gonna be missed big time. Never seen a pitcher with his accuracy, never.
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
December 8, 2008 9:13 PM | Link to this
My worst nightmare might be in the offing. Remember what happened with Johan Santana last year? The Mets stole him.
Guess who just entered the fray for Jake Peavy?
The Philadelphia Phillies. I think I’m gonna be sick
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
December 8, 2008 9:15 PM | Link to this
Cubs and Phillies in the mix for Peavy
By Efrim
December 8, 2008 9:15 PM | Link to this
The problem is that the Braves won’t trade any top prospects, so obviously, it’s pretty hard to make a trade for a significant bat. 3 years of Johnson for 1 year of Ankiel doesn’t make sense, and I don’t think the Braves would do that. Escobar for Ankiel wouldn’t happen because they just acquired Khalil Greene and more importantly, 4 years of Escobar doesn’t equal 1 year of Ankiel.
By steveP
December 8, 2008 9:17 PM | Link to this
DOB…nothing has been mentioned about Barbaro Canizares from AAA. He was in the AAA all-star came last year? Any chance he gets a chance to compete for 1st base position. Seems like he put up good numbers.
Where do you think Brandon Jones and Gregor Blanco fit into the Braves plans? Platoon? Trade bait?
By McFann O –[zzz]
December 8, 2008 9:19 PM | Link to this
Steve-O—
Just thought of something I meant to put in my last post…
When you try doing links, does you post show up on the Blog with the link all messed up, or does your post not show up at all? ‘Cause when I’ve tried to do a link lately, I experienced the latter.
DOB Anyway, again it seems to dispel any idea of Escobar or even KJ for Ankiel.
Good!
By winterville
December 8, 2008 9:19 PM | Link to this
Coach The Phillies don’t want Peavy, they would be a third team in a deal with the Cubs. It says they like DeRosa from the cubs or maybe Marquis.
By Steve from OH
December 8, 2008 9:19 PM | Link to this
Kelly Johnson for Rick Ankiel is more than an rip-off…it’s an idea on par with giving Barry Zito 126 million or allowing Dane Cook to be televised. There is no way in heck FW would do that. Of course, DOB just debunked that, so I guess I’ll calm down.
They want pitchers, preferably relievers? That seems like it would be more of a match with us, anyway. I can see us matching up with St. Louis for Ankiel for sure.
DOB, do you think there’s any chance we aquire Ludwick w/o giving up Esco or Kelly? Because I’d rather have him than Ankiel, I think…
By Joe M.
December 8, 2008 9:22 PM | Link to this
Seriously: Escobar or KJ for one year of Boras-client Ankiel is just awful. I really hope the Braves and Wren wouldn’t REALLY do that even if the Cardinals begged them and that it’s just a no-smoke-whatsoever rumor. Just the thought that they could actually consider that a move to benefit the Braves in 2009 and beyond inspires no confidence, to be frank.
It’d be even (much!) worse than trading five (or whatever) years of Joey Devine for a half-season of .730 OPS Mark Kotsay and a PTBNL from Boston.
Got my fingers crossed on Burnett. I hope he signs soon. Don’t want another drawn-out Peavy-like thing with one day him (Burnett now) being close to signing with the Braves and the next hour him paling around with Brian Cashman, etc.
Any chance the Braves could sign Mike Gonzalez beyond 2009, like with Soriano last year? That’d be a move I fully support.
By Mike
December 8, 2008 9:22 PM | Link to this
DOB
I know that the Peavy route for the Braves is quite bleak now and that they have at least shifted their attention. But if you were to assume that we dont get AJ (which i think we will get him), is there any truth to what Stark wrote in his column about the Braves not being a team Peavy will go to? Was he just speculating or has Peavy ruled out the Braves? If he has…what a douchebag! Just for that alone i hope that we go to the playoffs and whatever team his ends up on goes in the toilet. But I ain’t mad at him.
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
December 8, 2008 9:23 PM | Link to this
Has anyone actually read the blurb about the Phillies? It says they may be the 3rd team needed to get Peavy to Chicago:
“The World Series champion Phillies are active on at least two fronts. They have shown interest in Twins’ outfielder Delmon Young and also have emerged as a possible third team in the ongoing discussions between the Cubs and Padres regarding right-hander Jake Peavy.
The Padres like some of the Phillies’ young minor-league pitchers, major-league sources say, but the talks are only in the preliminary stages.
The Cubs continue to seek a landing spot for right-hander Jason Marquis, whose $9.875 million salary would need to be cleared to create payroll flexibility for the addition of a left-handed hitter and/or Peavy.
The Cubs tried to interest the Phillies in Marquis, but received only lukewarm interest.
No Peavy deal will be completed until the Cubs’ new owner is decided, sources say. The new owner would need to approve the addition of Peavy, who is owed $63 million.”
By Heath
December 8, 2008 9:23 PM | Link to this
DOB:
Could we use Soriano as the main trade chip for ludwick/ankiel? We could still have moylan, gonzalez and potentially ohman in the ‘pen…that is acceptable to me.
By nolie
December 8, 2008 9:26 PM | Link to this
…. where have you seen Hermida and Hart mentioned as being on the Braves radar? I certainly havent’ seen any mention of those two from DOB or Bowman. Shawn B
It was toward the end of the previous blog
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
December 8, 2008 9:27 PM | Link to this
Cardinals are supposedly now not in on AJ…gotta love this time of year! But, I do hope the Braves can get the AJ thing done before CC spurns them and they open their unending vault!!
By McFann O –[zzz]
December 8, 2008 9:28 PM | Link to this
Steve-O—
(Of course, as soon as my page re-loaded from my last post, your 9:12 popped up. If I woulda waited a couple minutes, I coulda done it all in one post…so, sorry.)
Good post on AJB. I’ll check out that clip, too. I think he’ll be a pretty good pickup…but it does seem like the Braves always go for the guys with a history of injuries. But hey, he’s a pitcher…what cann ya do? If they haven’t been injured already, they will be—just look at Glavine!
I hafta say, when I heard the Braves were pursuing AJB, I was kinda excited. I don’t know—seemed as close to a “big name pitcher” as anybody. Don’t know a whole lot about him, since he’s an AL dude, but he seems pretty good—if he cann make 25 or more starts.
Hope this post makes sense…keep in mind, I’m still a “rookie”.
By Jeff
December 8, 2008 9:30 PM | Link to this
Just as I thought, Cox is still raving about Esco.
So much for that CBS Sportline fella’s story that Cox wants Esco replaced. The same sports writer said Esco was poor defensively last season citing only the number of errors he made as proof. I’m sure anyone who knows baseball well understands how ignorant his comments are.
PS: Again, I agree with Chipper Jones, there’s no reason Esco should be on the trade block…
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
December 8, 2008 9:32 PM | Link to this
Gotta love Bobby:
“”Anybody got a motor scooter to get back?” Braves manager Bobby Cox quipped in the meeting area before heading back to the lobby. “It’s a long walk.”
From this article at CNNSI…
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
December 8, 2008 9:34 PM | Link to this
CC spurns the Yanks…
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
December 8, 2008 9:34 PM | Link to this
meant to say before CC spurns the Yanks…
By Meanie
December 8, 2008 9:35 PM | Link to this
Braveheart
wow,what’s with you? You’ve been getting p1ssy a lot lately. Hanging with coach,Random and Nate too much?
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
December 8, 2008 9:36 PM | Link to this
Yankees going full throttle after Burnett…
By Bubdylan
December 8, 2008 9:36 PM | Link to this
I just had a thought (tried to stop it, but too late): be neat if Jo Jo Reyes had an amazing spring training and some sucker team took the knee-jerk trade-high bait and gave us our LF bat for him.
By SteveInRaleigh
December 8, 2008 9:38 PM | Link to this
lukewarm interest in Marquis? Something tells me that was a generous description. Sort-of like having luke-warm interest in contracting an STD.
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
December 8, 2008 9:39 PM | Link to this
One of my posts was lost making my ramblings about CC even more confusing…maybe more of my posts should get lost. Good night all.
By Bubdylan
December 8, 2008 9:40 PM | Link to this
JasoninFL, Is this a game? Guess the rest of your sentence? :)
By Steve from OH
December 8, 2008 9:40 PM | Link to this
Coach, I don’t think the Phils have enough room on their payroll to support Peavy…I’ve got them at roughly 110-120MM committed w/o Burrell and Moyer in the fold, and their payroll was at 98MM last season. Can’t see them going to a possible 30MM increase in salary. Anyway, who knows if Peavy would approve a trade to them anyway? He probably would, but ya never know…
Besides, a deal would gut their system…I would think it would take Lou Marson, Carlos Carrasco and JA Happ to get a deal done at least. Not that I’m high on Happ, but that’s a pretty hefty pacakge from their perspective.
But the Phils getting Peavy would royally suck. No arguments there.
By AdirondackDave
December 8, 2008 9:44 PM | Link to this
Given a choice between Ludwick and Ankiel, for me it’s this simple: multiple years of Ludwick are worth more than one year of Ankiel even though the latter is a much better fielder.
By ChopChopHipHop
December 8, 2008 9:47 PM | Link to this
With Ankiel being a Boras client, I say let them keep him. I wouldn’t deal with that jerk for anybody.
By McFann O –[zzz]
December 8, 2008 9:49 PM | Link to this
Steve-O—
That was a good clip of AJB! Flat-out domination…
I remember a game in 2007 (April 25) when Timmy struck out 12 Marlins…Braves were ahead 3-0 heading into the bottom of the ninth, and Timmy loaded the bases. So in came Wickman…Marlins won 4-3 on a walk-off…gulp…passed ball. Ugly…ugly ugly ugly…
By My Entire Team Sucks
December 8, 2008 9:53 PM | Link to this
great to here about smoltz - what a bonus it would be to have a healthy smoltz in the starting rotation
By Bubdylan
December 8, 2008 9:53 PM | Link to this
I believe the Phils/Peavy goings on all have to do with the Phils as the third team in a Cubs deal. No Jake for Philly.
Supporting that sentiment is quite a few new blurbs that just hit the net saying it’s Cubs or nobody (return to Pads) for Jake Peavy.
By Eric from MO
December 8, 2008 9:56 PM | Link to this
Ive seen this posted a few times before and dont understand why the Braves arent comsidering this. Why not make Kelly Johnson our left fielder and let Prado start at 2nd. Kelly’s biggest knock is his defense. Once the Braves moved him back in the lineup to drive in runs, like he should be, he was fine. He could easily hit 20 homers a year and we dont have to trade anything for him.
By Stac
December 8, 2008 9:59 PM | Link to this
Ive read that Towers said they trade Peavy to the Cubs or they keep him. Thats that. I just dont think Peavy wants to be a Brave and thats his decision. Wren will put this team together though and Peavy may be wishing he was a Brave. Oh Well……..
As for Escobar, I would not trade him for anything other then a true Ace either. Hes to valuable for our future to trade for a one or two year player. I would keep him thats for sure.
By Brian22
December 8, 2008 10:02 PM | Link to this
DOB, who’s ring tone went off toward the beginning of the press conference? I know Georgia Tech’s “White and Gold” when I hear it. Anybody Braves related?
By Philliesuk
December 8, 2008 10:09 PM | Link to this
Maddux…class act. His humility is something that is lacking in 99% of athletes today. It’s pretty humorous to compare his stats to the best pitchers today. Three straight seasons with over 260 innings. He STILL put up over 200 innings in the strike-shortened season in 1994. 71 walks in THREE straight seasons. The Braves team will never, ever have a pitcher as good as Greg Maddux.
I have a lot of Maddux games on DVD, and it still amazes me when I throw one of those in. One of the best is a game he threw with the Cubs against Steve Avery in 1990.
It’s pretty ridiculous to think of all of the people who say that we shouldn’t get AJ Burnett. Then who should we get? Some people here just don’t have a clue. I remember last off-season when someone said we should trade for Lincecum. Oh yeah, and someone said a few days ago that we should trade for Roy Halladay. Of course. I mean, why on earth would the Blue Jays want him? And I’m sure the same people would whine and moan if we had to give up more than a couple of rejects to get him.
Here’s the deal. Every single baseball expert says that Burnett is the second best pitcher available on the free agent market. Chipper Jones wants him. The guy is a great pitcher. He will make our pitching staff significantly better. His ERA was a little high last year because he was not only in the AL, but in the AL East.
If we sign Burnett and get an outfielder who can produce runs, we become contenders in the NL East.
Oh yeah, and getting Vazquez was a good move. He also improved our team, regardless of what the pessimists say. I’m sure that almost none of you have ever even seen Tyler Flowers swing a bat anyway.
By Jones
December 8, 2008 10:10 PM | Link to this
Looks like Peavy to the Cubs is a go.
Wren should offer 5 years and 80 million to Burnett. They lose out on him and this offseason is a bust.
By brian
December 8, 2008 10:12 PM | Link to this
if it is a reliever the Cards want the Braves may be out of luck. Everyone is either coming off of injury or had a rough 2nd half. Boyer, Acosta, etc anyone of them plus Brandon Jones…..well if that could be sent for Ankiel then I would bet the trade would have been made by now
By tlj
December 8, 2008 10:15 PM | Link to this
Escobar/Johnson for Ankiel? Not just NO but HELL NO. Two reasons he is a Boras client and will be a free agent after 2009.
Did I mention he was a Boras client?
By Salty Dawg
December 8, 2008 10:26 PM | Link to this
With Ankiel being a Boras client, I say let them keep him. I wouldn’t deal with that jerk for anybody.
Great idea, except that Bora$$ represents many of the top players in the game and will continue to do so. Regardless of what you and I think of him as fans, or what GMs may think of him, Bora$$ gets the best deals for his clients and if I were a pro athlete I would want him for my agent too. You can’t just ignore the best possible players available simply because of who their agent is. That is a recipe for dwelling in the cellar while your division opponents stockpile better players. Ideally you develop young players in the minors and have them under contract while they are cheap. The Braves do a pretty good job of that, but you still have to supplement young, cheap talent with proven veterans. If you don’t already have them, you have to go get them.
By Bo
December 8, 2008 10:30 PM | Link to this
Just say no to Akiel and Mr. Boras.
He!! no to trading Esco.The only way I’d trade Esco would be in Peavy deal and that ain’t gone happen. Even with Burnett the Braves still need another SP. The Braves could get* Jeremy Hermida* cheaper than the others names talked about per MLB.COM.Could happen.
Who every they get in OF please stop the damn Platoon crap.
Love to see Mad Dog take Cox place as Mgr.
By Bubdylan
December 8, 2008 10:33 PM | Link to this
It’s pretty ridiculous to think of all of the people who say that we shouldn’t get AJ Burnett. Then who should we get? Some people here just don’t have a clue.Phillisuk
I don’t think you have to be clueless to be apprehensive about signing any pitcher to 5 years, much less one who’s been hurt a bunch. Who else to get? Beats me. But the argument could be made that a year struggling with Smoltz/JJ/Vazquez/Morton/Reyes-Hanson is better than risking 5 years of a 15 mill bust-arm. Not saying I would make that argument (I’m on the fence), just saying you wouldn’t have to be clueless to make it.
By David O'Brien
December 8, 2008 10:35 PM | Link to this
The crack in the door that we’ve all been waiting for came today from Cox in regards to Tommy Hanson bidding for the starting rotation out of spring training.
When asked about that possibility, Cox said: “We don’t want to rush him. But if he can win a spot in spring training, we’re open-minded bout it. I’ve never seen him throw a ball yet. I need to see him.”
That was the second time Cox had been asked about Hanson during the same interview (there were a few late-arrivers).
When asked earlier about Hanson or other young guys competing for the rotation in spring training, Cox said:
“Well I’m not so sure. Tommy, there’s that thought of maybe pushing things too quick, and I’ll have a much better idea [in the spring]. I’ve never seen Tommy throw a ball, and we will see him this spring. All indications are that he very well could fit in as a starter right now. We’ll see. We don’t want to do the wrong thing. But he’s good. And Jo-Jo Reyes. We held onto our pitching, Morton and Reyes, so far, which is a good thing.”
By Go Vandy
December 8, 2008 10:37 PM | Link to this
DOB, Only the second time here. I’m a female, but a lifelong baseball fan and played softball in college. I have a non-facetious question. I’m not being an agent provacateur and my husband who is a therapist(but only a football and basketball fan) also views it as a legitimate question. Here goes, IF the Braves don’t get Burnett, Sheets, Peavy or a corner outfielder of any substance is it possible that some of your Bloggers might be pushed over the brink and contemplate doing themselves harm?? I’m serious. Some of these individuals seem invested to the point of fanaticism. I’m even willing to guess that some people throwing around 15 million a year for 5 years MIGHT not be making 50,000 a year. Do you ever see the craziness of this or do you just steel yourself? I understand you’re being paid to generate this information, but the people responding and seemingly living for any snippet of info are NOT being paid. They are lurking and spending hours to see if Burnett accepts a deal. Is this not “insane”??
By BravesFanChris24
December 8, 2008 10:37 PM | Link to this
I read on MLB Trade Rumors and it said Cards want a starter instead of middle infielders for Ankiel. So would a Jo Jo Reyes/Parr combo work to get Ankiel?
By Bubdylan
December 8, 2008 10:42 PM | Link to this
Love to see Mad Dog take Cox place as Mgr. Bo
Hell, I’d settle for Snoop Dogg.
By Philliesuk
December 8, 2008 10:43 PM | Link to this
It’s not clueless to think that Burnett is a bad idea; it’s clueless to think that every single pitcher (such as Halladay) is available for trade; in other words, there just aren’t that many #1 or #2 starters available.
By Bo
December 8, 2008 10:43 PM | Link to this
Please sign Burnett ASP
By Tomas
December 8, 2008 10:45 PM | Link to this
How about trading Blaine Boyer, and Todd Redmond for Rick Ankiel? The Cards get bulpen help in two young pitchers with good potential, and we get a CF with power and a great arm. I don’t know if the Cards would want more than that, but Ankiel is in the last year of his contract and is a scott boras client, so they can’t ask for a lot. He can either play LF, or CF next year, which ever is best for the Braves.
I hope Wren listens to Bobby. “You’ve got to do what you’ve got to do. He’s got a fabulous arm. He’s a guy who can go out there and, even when he doesn’t have his best stuff, can throw a no-hitter.” The Yankees obviously will offer more money, so there is only one thing to do guarantee him 5 yrs.
I think that if the Braves don’t sign AJ, they’re screwed. No Peavy, No AJ, No Dempster, obviously no CC or Lowe. They have to make Aj Burnett an offer he can’t refuse, and stop fooling around with options and all that stuff.
By Bubdylan
December 8, 2008 10:50 PM | Link to this
IF the Braves don’t get Burnett, Sheets, Peavy or a corner outfielder of any substance is it possible that some of your Bloggers might be pushed over the brink and contemplate doing themselves harm??
Don’t be silly. It’s just a blog.
but the people responding and seemingly living for any snippet of info are NOT being paid. They are lurking and spending hours to see if Burnett accepts a deal.
Does the razor go up-and-down or side-to-side?
By Tomas
December 8, 2008 10:51 PM | Link to this
DOB, if the Braves don’t sign Aj Burnett, what do you think they will do?
By repo man
December 8, 2008 10:52 PM | Link to this
Go Vandy: I agree its crazy. Some of these guys are on 24 hrs a day and it gets bad at times. Got to love the Braves.
By Steve from OH
December 8, 2008 10:52 PM | Link to this
DOB, did Bobby say anything noteworthy about Schafer?
By Jim
December 8, 2008 10:54 PM | Link to this
Go Vandy is right… the last post by BravesFanChris24 shows the insanity…trade two pitchers for a pitcher turned outfielder with one year to be a free agent?…and asking as if it was a request to Santa?
What does everyone think happened with Tex and the give away of Salty and the bunch?
Where’s Tex now? I would have preferred taking my chances on Salty…
By Bubdylan
December 8, 2008 10:59 PM | Link to this
Holy Crap. Sorry for the boldface. Did something wrong.
By Bo
December 8, 2008 11:04 PM | Link to this
Bubdylan, Man I agree on Snoop Dogg for Cox.
By Mike
December 8, 2008 11:04 PM | Link to this
Jo-Jo Reyes is garbage. I don’t care who likes him. he can’t keep the ball down and he walks too many batters. We cannot trade this guy fast enough.
By David O'Brien
December 8, 2008 11:06 PM | Link to this
Here’s one reason to believe Escobar WON’T be traded this winter:
“I think he’s a special talent, and I certainly want him on our team,” Bobby Cox said. “He’s as good a shortstop as we’ve ever had here. He can do so much. He’s going to hit right at .300, I think, ever year. He’s got the type of mechanics that allows me to say that. He stays inside the ball so well, and he’s an extremely gifted shortstop. A pair of the best hands you’d ever see, and he’s got a great arm. And he’s strong. If he wants to, he could hit in the 20s [home runs].”
By cabravesfan
December 8, 2008 11:08 PM | Link to this
Not sure if anyone mentioned it (apologies if you did- scrolling through rather quickly to catch up on the blog) but I think Don Sutton’s quote:
“Greg Maddux is the best artist I ever saw paint a baseball game”
pretty much sums it up for me…the most beautiful pitcher I have ever seen- I am so glad I got to watch true greatness for so long…he will be missed.
By Leo Rimando
December 8, 2008 11:08 PM | Link to this
Here’s an idea. How about the Braves offering an Escobar for Franciso Liriano swap? Min needs a SS, and I would love a shot at getting Liriano. He was the most dominant pitcher in the league before going on Tommy John surgery. He was even more dominant that Johan Santana at one stretch of the season. We need a dominant Lefty (seems we will be Righty heavy this year) and his value may have come down enough so that MIN would consider the trade. It would be an opportunity to acquire a young dominiant young pitcher before he his value peaks again. He has incredibly nasty stuff, and exciting enough to take a chance on. Moreover he’s only 25, so could be along for a long time. Lastly, since he’s coming from a lower market team in Min he may be affordable for several years.
Inquiring about Liriano’s availability may be worth while. What do you think?
By safebet
December 8, 2008 11:16 PM | Link to this
Frank deepest regards. if you could land a j.j. hardy and a cory hart for younell,jojo,and maybe blanco or a ascosta. that would be awsome. good luck Frank. I do like ankiel but not for 1 year.
By Dixie Dawg
December 8, 2008 11:30 PM | Link to this
They are going to have to label Escobar as untouchable. I really wish the Braves would not even consider trading him. And whats with the Braves wanting to go after Ibanez? It sounds like the Braves are just avoiding wanting to rebuild when they really, and I do mean really need to rebuild. I don’t really agree in the decision to get Vasquez, since he was subpar last year. Please, Mr. Wren, no more dinosaurs. Please end the Jurassic movement right now!
By philbravo
December 8, 2008 11:32 PM | Link to this
if the braves were to trade johnson, and they happened to sign furcal, who would be more willing or be asked to move to second? im thinkin escobar because of furcals arm.
By jake
December 8, 2008 11:34 PM | Link to this
So if Bobby likes Escobar so much, why do the Braves (Wren?) seem so willing to let him go?
By uga-brave
December 8, 2008 11:37 PM | Link to this
for amy of you that want some of the great backstory regarding smoltz, maddux, or galvine, i suggest leo’s book TALES FROM THE MOUND.
two games from maddux always stick out for me. a 81 pitch complete game in st. louis during the regular season on a sunday night and of course game one in the 1995 series.
By Salty Dawg
December 8, 2008 11:38 PM | Link to this
IF the Braves don’t get Burnett, Sheets, Peavy or a corner outfielder of any substance is it possible that some of your Bloggers might be pushed over the brink and contemplate doing themselves harm?? I’m serious. Some of these individuals seem invested to the point of fanaticism. I know you said you aren’t being facetious, but seriously, you’re kidding right? First of all, I would venture a guess that most of the posters here are “fanatical” to some degree. That is where the word “fan” comes from, and I think the majority here consider themselves to be fans of the Braves and baseball. Nobody here is going to do themselves harm any more than you are when you watch Vandy lose. In the end, it is a game and we all know that (well, some more than others).
I’m even willing to guess that some people throwing around 15 million a year for 5 years MIGHT not be making 50,000 a year. What is your point? Baseball salaries are what they are. What does one thing have to do with the other?
I understand you’re being paid to generate this information, but the people responding and seemingly living for any snippet of info are NOT being paid. They are lurking and spending hours to see if Burnett accepts a deal. Is this not “insane”?? It is called a pastime. Do you watch television, or read, or play Parcheesi? Who are you to judge how others spend their time? You clearly read the blog, so isn’t it a little hypocritical for you to judge the others who read and post here? Who are you to decide that your level of involvement on the blog is more acceptable than anyone else’s? Maybe you need to sit down for a session with your husband to work through the issues that give you this pompous mindset.
By TexasBrave
December 8, 2008 11:39 PM | Link to this
Here’s one reason to believe Escobar WON’T be traded this winter: DOB
Could he just be talking Escobar up for a bidding team or perhaps trying to do some damage control with Yunel because all of the trade talk?
Also did you see Braveheart’s 7:34 of Chipper’s comments about Yunel? What do you make of it?
“There’s no reason for a guy with the ability of Yunel Escobar, what he’s done at this point early in his career, to be on the trading block. And there’s only one reason he’s on the trading block. And that’s sad,” Chipper Jones told 790 The Zone.
I guess I don’t understand what reason other than pitching that Yunel would be on the trading block. Is there something more to it than that?
By Couch Tater
December 8, 2008 11:40 PM | Link to this
DOB - Great article and blog.
By Philliesuk
December 8, 2008 11:40 PM | Link to this
Well, those of you who don’t want Burnett may just get your wish.
ESPN is reporting that the Red Sox are now players in the Burnett sweepstakes. Also, CC Sabathia apparently is showing more interest in the West Coast. That means we will have to out-compete both Boston and New York, which is unlikely.
By rotty
December 8, 2008 11:42 PM | Link to this
The Braves have traded tons of players Bobby loved it is the nature of the biz.
If Wren can land an Ace for Escobar he won’t blink.
That said I don’t see an Ace (apart from Peavy) who can be had with Escobar as the centerpiece.
By Greg in TN
December 8, 2008 11:45 PM | Link to this
Evening folks…
Once again the ball is placed on the tee for the Veteran’s Committee and once again, it’s strike three and the Committee walks back to the dugout. Congratulations to Joe Gordon, whose Hall of Fame ticket was punched today by the pre-1942 committee and who will be inducted posthumously next summer.
So where do we go now? The HOF has a big problem on their hands now IMO with the changes last year to help streamline the process now that this round of changes obviously didn’t help. I like the idea of having the living hall members decide who gets in and who doesn’t, but when the group can’t get consensus to elect even one deserving player four votes in a row? Perhaps the HOF should shave a couple players off the ballot and propose eight to vote from instead of the current system. Now we wait until 2010 for another vote.
By Erik
December 8, 2008 11:46 PM | Link to this
DOB Please answer this question for me.
Unlike everyone else I am not as concerned about the price for Ankiel (I have faith in Wren). Instead I am just confused as to why they are targeting Ankiel. I was under the impression we were looking for a righty or at least a lefty who has had success against righties in the past. Ankiel hit .226 against lefties last year.
Are we willing to trade for a 1 year rental who is left handed?
Don’t get me wrong I would be excited to Ankiel in a braves uniform but I thought we were looking for a righty to balance out our lineup.
Thanks DOB
By David O'Brien
December 8, 2008 11:48 PM | Link to this
Chipper was referring to a few incidents this season that we’ve alluded to many times, the outbursts at a couple of umpires, showing up a pitcher or two, etc. Chipper praised him in that interview, by the way. He was saying it’s sad that those incidents might be the thing that got such a talented player traded, etc. Saying it was sad that it happened, more than anything else, at least that’s how I took it. Seemed pretty clear to me what he meant.
By N8
December 8, 2008 11:50 PM | Link to this
Texas Brave
I’m guessing that’s a backhanded comment about Yunel’s attitude. Can’t imagine that Chipper would be taking an attack on Braves management about them needing to acquire pitching as the “reason” for Yunel being on the block.
By Vic Mackey
December 8, 2008 11:52 PM | Link to this
HEY DOB
You think that Jo-Jo or Morton would be tradable for Ankiel if the Braves sign A.J.?
I think the Braves could maybe even wait till right before Spring Training to get an outfielder. Might give them time to assess Smoltz a little bit more and see how their pitching depth settles in/.
Just a thought — what do you think?
By David O'Brien
December 8, 2008 11:52 PM | Link to this
The fact that Ankiel will be eligible for free agency after the 2009 season is why the Cardinals know they won’t get nearly as much for him as Ludwick. It’s why they don’t expect to get a starting pitcher for him, and why it sounds like they’d probably take a reliever for Ankiel, or a reliever and a minor leaguer, that kind of thing.
By Vandy Blows
December 8, 2008 11:54 PM | Link to this
If we don’t sign 2 starting pitchers and a left-fielder soon, I may have to start a charcoal fire in an air-tight room so the carbon monoxide will put me out of my misery
By Wayne in Utah
December 8, 2008 11:55 PM | Link to this
No way should we ever go after another Boras client in a trade, unless he was practically given to us.
Prado and Parr for Ankiel, and nothing more.
By skull
December 8, 2008 11:57 PM | Link to this
So if Bobby likes Escobar so much, why do the Braves (Wren?) seem so willing to let him go? Jake
Don’t bet on the things BC says.
Bobby loves every player. In an interview at the end of the season Bobby said that he still liked Corky & would be happy to have back again next season. Thank God FW signed Ross!
By DoubleDownon11
December 8, 2008 11:58 PM | Link to this
DOB:
Can I take a guess that you talked with former AJC sports writer Joe Strauss during Mozeliak’s local media session?
If so, he mentioned on a guest spot with 1380AM here in St. Louis this afternoon that an Ankiel-for-Johnson trade would be ‘conceivable’. It would lower the Cardinals payroll (Ankiel is arbitration eligible for the last time) and it’d free up some extra cash for the Cards pursuits of either a free agent pitcher or trade for a reliever.
Just thought I’d pass that along.
DD11
By Johnny
December 8, 2008 11:59 PM | Link to this
Why are we waiting around to see if some other team can swoop in and get AJ? Why don’t we give more attention to Dunn? Yes, poor defense…blah blah…that guy can mash. If you put chipper and esco in front of him that could be some major RBIs. FW please offer AJ the 5th year. Offer Ben sheets 3 years and be amazed at the rotation in 2010. I know very unrealistic wishlist of players, but this is going to Santa, right?
By Salty Dawg
December 9, 2008 12:00 AM | Link to this
MLBTR: MLB.com’s Mark Bowman says the Reds “may have some interest in Jeff Francoeur.” However, the Braves don’t want to move him.
That should bring them out of the woodwork. Hope everyone is still alive and kicking out there.
By winterville
December 9, 2008 12:02 AM | Link to this
I just killed myself because we haven’t signed Burnett yet.
By The Real Joebrave
December 9, 2008 12:03 AM | Link to this
Folks Burnett is now a mist in the wind,With the Stankees deep pockets, FORGET HIM!!!! Wren, Dude You BETTER Come up with more than Vazquez,a he11uva lot more… As for Ankiel,Are You folks CRAZY??He does’nt hit Righthanded!!!!!! Yes give me Hart,and possibly learn to stomach Garland,and Wolf!!! That is about the way it’s gonna go!!! Looks like Baltimore-itis has set in on the Bravos!!!
By Johnny
December 9, 2008 12:07 AM | Link to this
The Reds have interest in Frenchy???
This according to Mark Bowman. Fill me in DOB
By David O'Brien
December 9, 2008 12:09 AM | Link to this
I went back and added to the original blog these closing remarks by Maddux, which I can’t believe I forgot to post originally:
“Again, I just want to say thank you for everything. The game has given me and my family so much, that I just want to say thank you. And the one thing I hope is, I hope that I gave back. I played the game the way I want my teammates to play it. Again, thank you for everything. I’ll miss it. Thanks you.”
By Chop Chop
December 9, 2008 12:11 AM | Link to this
TexasBrave,
Bobby’s superlatives for Escobar strike me as an attempt to drum up interest. Doesn’t make much sense to poormouth a guy you might trade. You talk the fella up. Why else would Bobby say that Kelly Johnson is “too good” at second base to move him to left field? That’s a flat-out lie. Ol’ Braveheart pulled out those poor fielding stats and whacked Kelly over the head with them.
It’s hard for me to believe that both guys will be traded this offseason, but I think it seems very likely that one of them will. Since Escobar is a defensive plus, I’d like to see Kelly moved. You know, even if he’s not likely to get any better because he’s actually, oh, 30 or something.
I think Burnett will end up in pinstripes. Sabathia wants to play out West. The Dodgers could use a big splash to make up for any Manny backlash. This will cause the Yanks to go into panic mode. Since they can afford to give Burnett a fully-guaranteed fifth year, a Sabathia rejection would make the Yanks up the ante. This could also lead to a scenario that I’m starting to think is quite possible:
Peavy to the Yanks.
The Yanks can send Cano, a pitcher (Hughes or Kennedy), and some secret cash over to San Diego.
John Moores: “Just make sure the cash isn’t transferred until my divorce is final.”
Gotta admit that something like this would be funny as hell.
By nolie
December 9, 2008 12:12 AM | Link to this
’m even willing to guess that some people throwing around 15 million a year for 5 years MIGHT not be making 50,000 a year.
What is your point? Baseball salaries are what they are. What does one thing have to do with the other?
That post sounds a lot like Lou Vales approach. He keeps sneaking back under other names and bringing up the same stupid stuff about salaries and fanaticism. I think maybe he’s obsessed. LOL
By TexasBrave
December 9, 2008 12:13 AM | Link to this
Wow how one little excerpt can be taken way out of context. I tried to find the whole interview but failed. So I took it at face value. Still it did not sound like Chipper was too thrilled with Yunel being on the chopping block even if it meant getting an ace.
By Johnny
December 9, 2008 12:17 AM | Link to this
Last thing I’ll write then just read. DOB you do a great job here and I appreciate the read even if we don’t sign AJ or trade for Peavy at this moment in time. Maddux was my favorite player growing up and it was a pleasure to watch him play. Get strong on the pitching front Bravos!
By dkmo10
December 9, 2008 12:20 AM | Link to this
DOB Since I dont really care for Jo Jo and if we are really going to get Ankeil,though I realy dont like him either then why couldnt we trade Morton and Jo Jo and maybe another player for Wainwright and Ankiel. Atleast put someone in the trade to be excited about, cuz Adam is a former brave and could help the rotation as a 3,4 or 5?(depends on who we get) It will give STL two young pitchers. STL will never do this but it would be nice.
By thespook
December 9, 2008 12:20 AM | Link to this
Possibly the Braves are considering trading Escobar because they have inside information and concern about the condition of his shoulder and it hampering an outstanding future.
By The Real Joebrave
December 9, 2008 12:21 AM | Link to this
F.W Hello Reds G.M. Frank, What would it take to acquire Jeff Francouer??? F.W. Edinson Volquez,Joey Votto,and 15 mill. Krivsky,What????WHAT???Are You Freakin Stupid??? Frank Wren, You asked!!! How about, AAron Harang,and A minor league shortstop??? Krivsky, Frank I will be there in a few minutes, man You really need to put that bong down!!!
By Chop Chop
December 9, 2008 12:26 AM | Link to this
Oh, and I mean that Escobar is likely 30 or something. I’m fairly certain that Kelly is legitimately 26 years old.
(I know them Texican birth certificates can be a little fishy, but I’ll trust his.)
By Joel
December 9, 2008 12:28 AM | Link to this
Jake Apparently you just don’t get it. Not once has anybody said that they are so willing to let Escobar go. As far as the Peavy trade goes, you have to give up something to get one of the top 5 pitchers in all of baseball, and Escobar has endless talent who comes dirt cheap. Don’t think for one second that the Braves will move him in anything less than a blockbuster.
By Duke
December 9, 2008 12:30 AM | Link to this
Of course the better version of that song done by four other dudes. Not sure I need to name their names
By Serge
December 9, 2008 12:31 AM | Link to this
Here’s one reason to believe Escobar WON’T be traded this winter:
No disrespect. But that means absolutely nothing coming from Bobby Cox.
By skull
December 9, 2008 12:44 AM | Link to this
During the course of Monday’s events, Wren said that he spoke to two representatives of free agents and to about eight different clubs about potential trades. Mark Bowman
Keep at it FW! Git-er-dun!
By nolie
December 9, 2008 12:48 AM | Link to this
Possibly the Braves are considering trading Escobar because they have inside information and concern about the condition of his shoulder and it hampering an outstanding future. thespook
nah, they just don’t believe that he is ever going to fully get over the trade of Pena. He rallied for a bit after the initial devastation, but slipped back into mourning and moped around the last two months. More of the same is believed to be in the future, so they are being proactive. S’truth!
By The Real Joebrave
December 9, 2008 12:51 AM | Link to this
Somehow I get this sinking feeling that Frankie Wren is a little overmatched… Hey Homeboy Upstairs, get Your @ss to Vegas and show Your Boy how it’s done!!! Don’t just stand there old man DO SOMETHING!!! Incompetent Boobs!!!
By The Real Joebrave
December 9, 2008 12:53 AM | Link to this
Jeff Frenchfry!!!What a JOKE!!If You guys think that TURD is going to be any better You need to stop Drinking, and that includes the Gwinnett Kool-aid!!!
By Johnny B
December 9, 2008 1:02 AM | Link to this
Greetings all!
DOB You are the man as always!
Excellent article on Mad Dog. I got a couple of free tickets back in 02’ and sat right behind home plate where the scouts sit. Although I had been to several games he had started over the years this was the only one I was close enough to “hear” the action as well as see it.
Unfortunately, we lost 2 to 1 that day but being able to sit that close and watch the movement on Madduxs pitches was unbelievable. The intensity he pitched with and the self directed, profanity laced outburst were something to behold…He will truly be missed and I pray when he’s ready the Braves don’t hesitate to offer him a position on the staff.
Any word on where we are with Norton and Olman? Would be nice to have those two in place for next season.
By Greek Brave
December 9, 2008 1:03 AM | Link to this
I would hope the Braves will immediately invite Maddox to Spring Training to work with our Braves. Our young guns (pistols) have missed not having him around.
By kris
December 9, 2008 1:10 AM | Link to this
What is the status of Will Ohman?
By FaninFaytown
December 9, 2008 1:32 AM | Link to this
Seriously, what is the deal with not being able to spell our beloved players names? ANDRUW!! MADDUX!! ahhh
By youse
December 9, 2008 1:41 AM | Link to this
U can use those U’s
By Eric B
December 9, 2008 1:49 AM | Link to this
We need to garauntee the 5th year tomorrow and sign Burnette immediately. We can wait on Smoltz/Glavine to potentially add depth while waiting patiently on the best deal for an OF bat with power.
By Rafael Belliard
December 9, 2008 1:55 AM | Link to this
DOB
Why has Garret Anderson’s name not been mentioned?
Seems like a good fit.
By nolie
December 9, 2008 2:22 AM | Link to this
Why has Garret Anderson’s name not been mentioned?
Seems like a good fit RafaelB
he’s a LH hitter with a poor OBP, so I’m not sure what makes him a good fit. Comes to that I’d rather have Ankiel and platoon him with Diaz.
By jed
December 9, 2008 2:58 AM | Link to this
go vandy
i have friends who are teachers who dont make over $50k. does that exclude them from discussing baseball trades? you know, i spent my freshman year of college at that little hell-hole of a university of yours. it was a yuppie-wannabe wasteland. your glib arrogance is appalling, but emblematic of what i encountered at vanderbilt: soul-less rich kids who knew the price of everything and the value of nothing.
By Coach (skip and pete will be missed)
December 9, 2008 2:59 AM | Link to this
I did some digging and found out what I had already suspected. Yes, the Phillies have the right prospects to pull off a five for one deal for Jake Peavy.
As to whether or not they will, that question has yet to be answered. And NO, the Phillies are not some third wheel in a three team trade scenario involving the Padres.
The Philadelphia Phillies have the means to pull this thing off all by themselves if they so choose. The Phillies know that they need more pitching. No one is expecting Jamie Moyer to repeat his 2008 season even if the Phillies resign him and Chase Utley is already out for much of 2009. Then there is the matter of Pat Burrell. Will he stay in Philly or go elsewhere?
Our Braves are not the only team in the N.L. East with problems.
By jed
December 9, 2008 3:12 AM | Link to this
reading the trade rumors pages, what is kevin towers thinking? he’s going to take this deal with the cubs over the deal the braves offered? i’d rather have escobar than jason marquis. if morton was offered, forget it. even jo-jo reyes is potentially better than marquis. and to consider we’d have given them gorkys hernandez, escobar, blaine boyer, and reyes or morton? compared to what they’re hoping for from the cubs? if towers isnt bluffing, he’s just plain crazy.
By David O'Brien
December 9, 2008 3:19 AM | Link to this
Kris, the market for most free agents other than the top guys has been slow to develop. Very slow. The Braves made an offer to Ohman last month, and I’m sure he’s still waiting to see what other offers he’s going to get before he makes a decision. I think that part of the process is probably just picking up some speed now.
Braves have acquired a couple of relatively unproven lefties (O’Flaherty and Logan, which sounds like the name of a good whiskey) since making the offer to Ohman, and I don’t get a sense that he’s a priority for them, though I think he probably should be.
If the market doesn’t materialize as Ohman had hoped, maybe he comes back to the Braves, assuming their offer to him still stands. But I don’t know. I haven’t talked to him in a couple of weeks. I’ll try to give him a call tomorrow.
By scottbravesfan
December 9, 2008 3:27 AM | Link to this
Dave,
Have you heard anything about when the Braves will retire Maddux’s number? I want to know because I’ll be making the four hour drive to see that game for sure. I guess they could wait until the 2010 season to retire it but if they wait to long it will be time to retire Smoltz and Glavine’s jerseys as well and I doubt they would want to do all three or even two of them in the same season.
By BravesFan79
December 9, 2008 3:39 AM | Link to this
Go Vandy: you probably spend your time watching Desperate House wives, or The Hills…….. so compared to us…whos life is REALLY sad? At least were not easily entertained by a lame plot. about “who dumped RC this week”
I think “the HIlls” meets “the Shield” would make a really good show. Vick would help put the little pink polo shirt btches out of their misery. Take em to Compton and give them a dose of reality!
By Bravo Nam
December 9, 2008 3:43 AM | Link to this
DOB
Great song choice and excellent artist. Jimmy Webb is one of my all-time fave writers…and his singing ain’t half bad either…his work on Ten Easy Pieces was sublime.
By Bravestillidie
December 9, 2008 3:46 AM | Link to this
DOB
I just happened to think about Phil Stockman. Whats the last you heard about him after being hurt last year? Any news on him and also what his contract status is. He had some flashes of potential every time I saw him. Once again…thanks for the always hard work.
BTID
By GermanBravesFan
December 9, 2008 3:53 AM | Link to this
DOB: Great article on Maddux! I started following baseball in 1991 and was lucky enough to follow the Braves and Greg Maddux. The one image that will stick with me is when the camera showed him during games where he didn’t pitch, during the days before he had laser eye surgery: he was sitting there with his glasses and looked like a total nerd. He could have been mistaken for the team trainer or doctor, but not for one of the greatest pitcher of his generation! It’s too bad he could not end his career with the Braves…
By GermanBravesFan
December 9, 2008 3:58 AM | Link to this
Somehow I get the impression that “TheReal Joe Brave” either forgot to take his meds or is completely drunk…
By Anti-Coach
December 9, 2008 4:05 AM | Link to this
Coochie Poo
The Phils aren’t getting Peavy you moron. BTW do you happen to know why you come across like such an a@@whole on most all of your posts? Just wondering. I bet I do.
By BayAreaSteve
December 9, 2008 4:21 AM | Link to this
Did someone say completely drunk?
By Marty from Roc City
December 9, 2008 4:28 AM | Link to this
DOB, That was a fine piece of writing on Greg Maddux, in my opinion the best pitcher to play the game.
I started reading this blog last spring training because I’m from upstate NY and without the Braves on TBS it was next to impossible to properly follow them. From 2002-2006 I was in the Marines and it was impossible to follow my team because of all the deployments I was on.
During this past season i was flipping through channels and came across a ball game Maddux was pitching in. I can’t remember the last time I was so happy. I sat there and watched a game I couldn’t of cared less about only because Maddux was on the mound. I had a feeling it would be his last year and had to see him one last time. In his press conference Maddux thanked everyone at the end but it’s we who should be thanking him.
Thank you Greg Maddux you made many people into baseball fans including me. We’re gonna miss you Greg!
By Ken Stallings
December 9, 2008 4:32 AM | Link to this
Greg Maddux says he “hopes” he gave something back to the game! And it’s a sincere statement, not false modesty. You know, you don’t really miss a guy until you have to miss him!
Greg, you gave back a whole lot! Congratulations and welcome to Cooperstown where you belong for the ages!
By GermanBravesFan
December 9, 2008 5:35 AM | Link to this
Question: why not suggest to the Padres that Hanson could be had in a deal for Peavy IF the Padres pay half of Peavy’s salary?
Then add Burnett to the rotation… Voilà!
2009 rotation: Peavy/Burnett/Smoltz/Jurrjens/Vazquez
2010 rotation: Peavy/Hudson/Burnett/Jurrjens/Vazquez
It’s okay to dream… :-)
By Efrim
December 9, 2008 5:49 AM | Link to this
Crasnick says that the Red Sox are right there with the Braves and Yankees bidding for Burnett. Are the Red Sox and Yankees in on everyone? Chances are that they talk to everyone, but I have a feeling that the Red Sox interest in Burnett is lukewarm and I can’t imagine them going to five years for him. At this point, I’d be suprised to see the Yankees go to five years for Burnett. Braves need to get it done for 5 years and 75 million before Sabathia decides on a West Coast team. With Peavy likely headed to the Cubs, the only other option in the free agent market I’d feel comfortable with starting on opening day would be Ben Sheets.
As far as the Mike Gonzalez for Rick Ankiel rumor, that makes zero sense to me, and I am sure it does to the Braves too. But, everyone here kept talking about trading Yunel and then signing a replacement shortstop. Well, with the closer market being full of options, would it make some sense to trade Mike Gonzalez for that proven run producing bat and then signing a closer like Kerry Wood? I know the Braves don’t like to pay closers big money, but the top closer in the market is going to sign for 3 years and 37 million. That isn’t a “ton of money”. Kerry Wood on a two year deal might be a bargain. And trading Gonzalez for a proven bat may keep us from trading any top prospects. Unconventional, I suppose, just up early this morning……
By GermanBravesFan
December 9, 2008 6:05 AM | Link to this
Efrim - I think the Braves should keep Gonzalez. It sounds like the Cardinals are looking for bullpen help in general, not necessarily a closer. How about Boyer for Ankiel? However, Ankiel will only be a one-year solution since his agent is Scott Boras…
By GermanBravesFan
December 9, 2008 6:08 AM | Link to this
Just adding to my previous comment: would it be worth trading a proven closer like Gonzalez for an outfielder who will be with the Braves for only a year?
By fan since 66
December 9, 2008 6:14 AM | Link to this
If - the biggest little word in the world. FW what are the 10 most important two letter words? If it is to be, it is up to me!
By fan since 66
December 9, 2008 6:14 AM | Link to this
If - the biggest little word in the world. FW what are the 10 most important two letter words? If it is to be, it is up to me!
By Roach
December 9, 2008 6:16 AM | Link to this
What are Ankiels Obp, Ops, and Ops+ for last year compared to Ibanez’s???
By nolie
December 9, 2008 6:19 AM | Link to this
DOB
Did you catch the first episode of Leverage on TNT the other night? It had good word of mouth B4hand ans was actually pretty interesting. Shows some promise. Caper type show.
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
December 9, 2008 6:20 AM | Link to this
Blue Jays would listen on Alex Rios:
“O’Connell says the Jays have significant interest in Pavano. Bastian also reports that J.P. Ricciardi did not deny that he’d listen on Alex Rios.”
I know he plays RF, but would he play LF?
By nolie
December 9, 2008 6:26 AM | Link to this
Well, with the closer market being full of options, would it make some sense to trade Mike Gonzalez for that proven run producing bat and then signing a closer like Kerry Efrim
I’m sorry, but I really fail to see how you can call Ankiel a proven run-producing bat. He might be ok as a platoon with Diaz, but the guy has proven next to nothing so far IMO. Certainly not enough to trade an impact player or closer for one year of his services. Truthfully, I’m somewhat surprised at your post, I respect your views but just don’t see this one at all.
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
December 9, 2008 6:27 AM | Link to this
I am still surprised that the Dodgers and Braves haven’t talked about a trade.
I hope the Braves met with AJ’s agent. The Yanks are now making an offer to Sheets for supposedly 2 yrs/$30 mill. Man, the Yanks and Sox really do get in on just about everyone. Hopefully, Sheets accepts right out of the gate. Even the Yanks can’t afford Sheets, CC, and AJ…can they?
By Philliesuk
December 9, 2008 6:28 AM | Link to this
Ankiel for Gonzo?
NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
December 9, 2008 6:30 AM | Link to this
From Chris De Luca at SunTimes:
“Hendry has not been as willing to discuss the negotiations as Towers — and the Padres GM’s frankness has irked the Cubs —”
But, I thought Towers had about the most integrity in the game according to the San Diego writers. This whole situation has been a joke with Towers, the rest of the front office, the Peavy/Axelrod/Towers love triangle, and Towers constant spouting off of the mouth.
By nolie
December 9, 2008 6:31 AM | Link to this
C’mon, Roach just go to BaseballReference.com and check them out. I’m too lazy at this time of morning. LOL. I know Ankiel didn’t hit lefties very well last season, I’m guessing not as well as Ibanez, but he is a much much better defensive player and cheaper. Would depend on who they wanted back.
By Efrim
December 9, 2008 6:32 AM | Link to this
German Braves Fan
I’m not sure I’d call Gonzalez a proven closer, but you’re right about dealing him straight up for Ankiel, I wouldn’t give that a moments thought. Trading him for 3 years of Ludwick? Possibly, but I’m not sure the Cards would do that.
I know it is far fetched, but if the Braves don’t like any free agent OF options and don’t want ot trade any top prospects, it may be the only way of upgrading at a corner OF spot.
By Efrim
December 9, 2008 6:41 AM | Link to this
nolie
This is what I wrote at the beginning of my post:
As far as the Mike Gonzalez for Rick Ankiel rumor, that makes zero sense to me, and I am sure it does to the Braves too.
I’m not saying deal Ankiel for Gonzalez. But Gonzalez for Ludwick or someone else with a more proven track record? I think it’s worth considering if they thought they could sign one of the other free agent closers.
It’s really just a thought I had considering that the Braves don’t want to trade “top prospects”. I’m not sure how they get this run producing bat without giving a prospect package up. They don’t like any of the free agent OF’s other than Raul Ibanez(who is far too expensive for his age).
By Roach
December 9, 2008 6:41 AM | Link to this
Nolie,
Won’t let me on any of those sites here at work. I am lucky to be on the blog.
By HeywardTheFuture
December 9, 2008 6:58 AM | Link to this
You guys that think we’ll get Peavy and Burnett are hilarious. Right now we’ll be lucky to get Burnett with the Sox and Yanks getting involved. Only way we’re gonna land him now is if we guarantee that 5th year.As for the Ludwick/Ankiel/Mather crap, I’m afraid Wren is going to do something stupid just to get a LF.
By Elmer
December 9, 2008 7:04 AM | Link to this
Keep Escobar, please! Ankiel would be a nice addition.
By GermanBravesFan
December 9, 2008 7:12 AM | Link to this
Efrim - how about Gonzalez for Dye?
By Voice from the past
December 9, 2008 8:08 AM | Link to this
So Chicago appears willing to talk about Mark Derosa now. Isn’t he a right handed hitting versatile OF that is capable of 20+ HR’s as well as backing up 3B in the event of an injury there?
By Smoky Joe Wood
December 9, 2008 8:08 AM | Link to this
I could live with Ankiel because he has upside—I think he’s still learning how to hit. He’s way better than what we’ve had in the OF. I would try to get him for Boyer plus a prospect. If that didn’t do it, I would ask Bobby Cox who he thinks will be better—Morton or Jo-Jo, then offer them the other one. I hate one-year deals in general, but really—what are the odds of Jo-Jo Reyes becoming Tom Glavine? I’d say 1 in 10.
By richbrave
December 9, 2008 8:09 AM | Link to this
Its never over ‘till its over, but I think the PEAVY deal’s in the past. Just as with BURNETT, the offer could be revisited however.
It looks like the fifth year guarantee to BURNETT is necessary and a bump in the premium also. If A.J. gives us another offer opportunity, I think we sign him.
That makes the PEAVY deal superfluous. I thought after we signed VASQUEZ, the PADRES would show up again, but JAKE may have nixed that opportunity. I suppose the truth will eventually come out.
ROSS was an essential deal. We had to get someone solid behind McCANN. Now the outfield needs some power and all of FW’s avowed tasks will have been completed. I still worry about the one and two slots in the line-up however.
Is ANKIEL the power.? I assume his career trajectory is still to the upside. Hey, maybe he’ll arrive here and suddenly begin throwing BB’s again for strikes.
By KneeJerk
December 9, 2008 8:19 AM | Link to this
There is NO BIGGER RF stiff in the majors than Jeremy Hermida.
By JR
December 9, 2008 8:30 AM | Link to this
First of all we are so deep into the AJ sweepstakes we had better make it happen.
Second, if we can get Ankiel for what DOB says a reliever and a prospect then do it. BTW we still need a LF. I am not satisfied with anyone left to do the job like a contending team needs.
Third, even if we get AJ we still need another pitcher. I’m trying to win the darn thing not contend.
Fourth, why in the heck hasn’t Bobby seen Hanson pitch. Get off your old butt and go watch your future in winter ball.
Finally, since Maddux doesn’t have a job can we get him to replace Roger as pitching coach.
By Smoky Joe Wood
December 9, 2008 8:30 AM | Link to this
What is Wren waiting for on signing Smoltz? If Bobby was so sold by his outing the other day, let’s get the contract drawn up. I don’t want to risk hurting his feelings, or leaving the door ajar for the Yankees/RedSox evil empire to stick their monstrous heads and checkbooks in.
By safebet
December 9, 2008 8:34 AM | Link to this
I JUST WANDER HOW MANY OF THESE COMMENTS ARE FROM PLAYERS, COX AND WREN
By Joe M.
December 9, 2008 8:36 AM | Link to this
Crasnick says that the Red Sox are right there with the Braves and Yankees bidding for Burnett.
Yawn. They weren’t interested (the Red Sox) two days ago and their interest was “overblown”. Now the Yankees seemingly step it up for Burnett and the Red Sox are suddenly intertested again? Yeah right. It is the obligatory interest game these two teams play with each other all the time. The Yankees and Red Sox are written about being “in” on every good player (trade or free agent.) Don’t believe most of it. Most of the time it is a sports writer pretending to have inside info. by throwing the two richest teams’ names out there or a PR ploy by those two teams to make their fans think they’re in on good players that in reality they are not.
Gonzalez for Ankiel? Hell no!
By sowegadawg
December 9, 2008 8:36 AM | Link to this
the braves have not won since they lost a lead-off hitter in furcal. the mets have reyes, the phillies, rollins. they play national league baseball, yes we need another power bat, but it will mean zilch with out a disruptive presence in the lead-off spot.
By BravesFanInRockies
December 9, 2008 8:46 AM | Link to this
KneeJerk,
Bigger than Frenchy?
Hermida has alternated solid seasons with awful ones. He’s coming off a bad one this year. He may end up being no better than Francouer, but he’s actually shown that he can recognize pitches and in his good years, he’s had A LOT more power than Frenchy.
And they’re the same age. If you can’t find a FA who’s worth a major financial commitment and the Mariins will talk to you, I’d give Hermida a much stronger chance of having a productive ML career than Francouer.
By Bill in ATL
December 9, 2008 8:53 AM | Link to this
I’m with sowegadawg on getting a true leadoff hitter with speed. I’d MUCH rather have someone of that type than a slow, low Batting Average, high strikeout, but high HR guy in the OF.
Makes the idea someone floated about Furcal playing 2B somewhat attractive. That’s the only kind of scenario that I wouldn’t mind moving KJ to the OF. The idea of KJ to OF and Prado at 2B is not so hot for the obvious reason that you are simply getting Prado instead of a run producing outfielder.
FWIW, I still can’t believe that Towers could be this childish. So perhaps the talk that Jake is really calling the shots is the real answer. I think we’ll hear the truth soon enough.
By Bama
December 9, 2008 9:00 AM | Link to this
Reds want Jeff and Braves don’t want to move him? Put his A@@ on the road. Why does he get special treatment/ Damn joke.
Maybe another reason players don’t want to play for Braves. Big deal Braves go after player like Akiel, one year wonder.It will be a long year if AJ turns us down.
By Scott
December 9, 2008 9:05 AM | Link to this
To me the best thing to happen would be for the Yanks to up the anty for Burnett and put us in a position where we have to re-visit the Peavy deal. He is the pitcher we need, and that would put us in a position where we need a SS and we need a lead off man, so Furcal would be a perfect fit. He probably has 3-5 years of good production left.
At that point I think we should sign Abreu for a couple years unless there is someway we could possibly pry Dye away from the Sox.
Furcal SS Kotchman 1 Chipper 3 Abreu/Dye LF McCann C Francouer RF Johnson 2 Shafer/Blanco CF
Peavy Jurrgens Smoltz Vasquez Hanson
By TampaBrave
December 9, 2008 9:06 AM | Link to this
I don’t usually disagree with Bobby Cox that often, but does BC need cataract surgery? I mean, Kelly Johnson is a poor defensive second baseman. To eliminate him from playing outfield based on his high opinion of him at 2B, makes me wonder if BC has all of his faculties. DOB, Any signs of dimensia there with the old skipper?
By gayle
December 9, 2008 9:10 AM | Link to this
Maddux was the best, a real class act. The Braves lost alot of luster when he left. Of the “Big Three”, Mad Dog should have been the one to stay here for his career.
By GermanBravesFan
December 9, 2008 9:11 AM | Link to this
Bill in ATL - the Braves have made it clear they will NOT move Kelly Johnson back to LF…
By GermanBravesFan
December 9, 2008 9:17 AM | Link to this
Scott - how should that scenario work out with what the Braves have financially? Furcal will demand at least $12 million per year, Vazquez is getting $11.5 million, Peavy in his first year $11 million (I hope I am right with that figure) and then you want to add Abreu ($11 million?) or Dye ($11.5 million)? Plus, whom do you want to trade to the White Sox for Dye? Plus, you will need to add Smoltz’s salary to that…
Oh… and that one pitcher’s name is spelled Jurrjens…
By Don't Trade Franceour, Sheesh
December 9, 2008 9:25 AM | Link to this
Derosa to Philly…Pie to Baltimore…Peavy to Chicago…Prospects to San Diego…?
By DAP
December 9, 2008 9:28 AM | Link to this
JasonInFL (formerly ME) check this out about rios’ contract
the guy will soon be extremely overpaid through 2014, his OBP is just decent, and he doesnt have a ton of power. he would be a great offensive SS, but not a great corner outfielder. im still shocked the blue jays signed this contract with him. anyways, there is no way the braves should trade for him.
By bill
December 9, 2008 9:29 AM | Link to this
Hey German… maybe Scott was reading the bottle in front of him as he imagined that lineup. It could happen to the best of us so cut him some slack.
By JC from UT
December 9, 2008 9:30 AM | Link to this
Does Francouer to the Reds have any merit? They seem willing to give up Homer Bailey for Jermaine dye and his $11mill salary. It could open up RF for Abreu for 2 years until Heyward is ready. Or with Bailey now a Brave FW has one more arm to put out there for Corey Hart.
By Corey
December 9, 2008 9:31 AM | Link to this
I like the Ankiel for a reliever trade, just not Mike Gonzalez. I would add another player to the mix and get that done. The fact that he can play all three outfield positions adds so much versatility to the line-up. And, in a full season, he has the potential to be a .290-35-110 guy.
I still say Burnett ends up in pin stripes, especially if the Yanks miss out on Sabathia. They’re already reportedly prepared to offer more money (4 years @ 64 mil). If the Braves guarantee a 5th year, the Yanks will too if CC is off the table. Then, it will come down to just money… And, we all know who wins that battle.
So, then what? I would hope we would swoop in a get Peavy before the Cubs do. The next best thing is Lowe, but he’s 35 and probably headed to Boston for a long term deal that I would not touch if I were the Braves. After that, the next best long term option in my opinion is Oliver Perez, but I had higher hopes than that for this offseason.
**I know this Peavy thing is supposed to be dead. But, if we miss out on Burnett and Peavy, so are we!
Also, Peter Gammons is reporting that Prince Fielder could be traded. Could we possibly work something out with the Brewers for Fielder and Hardy?**
By DAP
December 9, 2008 9:33 AM | Link to this
gayle Mad Dog should have been the one to stay here for his career.
but he didnt, so credit smoltz with that one.
By Scott
December 9, 2008 9:34 AM | Link to this
GBF
with the figures you gave, 12+11.5+11+11=45.5, Wren said the figure was around 45 so, that works nicely, Smoltz and Glavine money was not considered to be a part of the 45 mil. That is just my wish list, but obviously it won’t all happen, but that would be my choice if I were playing GM on Playstation. It sounds like Peavy may not want to be a Brave.
Jurrgens is an inside joke by the way!
By Original Jon
December 9, 2008 9:34 AM | Link to this
Hey Bill if that were the case, it would be spelled Jergens. Not Jurrgens.
By ncscoots
December 9, 2008 9:36 AM | Link to this
Braveheart, I guess I’ll have to slip on my latte-stained faded khakis and grab a white wine, then, if a set of stats is trying to convince me that KJ is (far) worse defensively than Jose Lopez and Dan Uggla. I think I’ll just go with my own anecdotal evidence that says, “bubba, that just ain’t right.”
By Efrim
December 9, 2008 9:37 AM | Link to this
Braves interested in Maholm/Snell:
http://www.timesonline.com/articles/2008/12/08/sports/pirates/doc493dfdc65512c594689029.txt
By Scott
December 9, 2008 9:38 AM | Link to this
Thanks Bill,
At least you saw some humor in it!
By Adolf Hitler
December 9, 2008 9:40 AM | Link to this
GemanBravesFan,
Here’s a better scenario.Report to the Russian front immediately. We need hard-asses like you to beat back those pesky vodka-swilling Ruskies.
By McFann O –[zzz]
December 9, 2008 9:42 AM | Link to this
Steve-O I saw someone else post a link before..I think we may just have to adjust some internet explorer things
Yeah…I’ve been looking at the Preferences for Safari, and haven’t found anything yet. But I’m sure I messed it up when I was trying to get Javascript…’Cause since then I haven’t been able to do links.
OK, trade a reliever and a minor leaguer for Ankiel, sign Burnett, and our middle infield is safe!
By McFann O –[zzz]
December 9, 2008 9:45 AM | Link to this
Prince Fielder? Man, we don’t need a first baseman!
By Rick Long
December 9, 2008 9:45 AM | Link to this
What a surprise, the Yankees are now knocking on Burnett’s door. So where are thou now Mr. Wren, about to get in a bidding war with the Yankees for an overrated, underachieving oft injured hurler? Sounds like good business to me, man! I don’t see the fascination with Burnett in the first instance and considering giving him a 5 year contract is insane. With their unlimited budget, The Yankees can afford to make a mistake with Burnett; the Braves cannot.
If you are THAT desparate for a front line pitcher, stop the testosterone olympiad with Towers and get a Peavy deal done.
By GermanBravesFan
December 9, 2008 9:50 AM | Link to this
Scott - thanks for the clarification on the “inside joke” ;-)
Bill - isn’t it kinda early to look at a bottle?
Question is: how bad does Towers want Hanson in a deal for Peavy? Would the Padres consider paying part of Peavy’s salary? If not for the duration of the contract, then how about for the first three years? That way, the Braves could keep Escobar and, if they manage to win the Burnett sweepstakes, would have a deadly rotation for the next three years? Why not trade Hanson if that potentially could give the Braves a shot to go very, very deep into the playoffs the next three years (2009: Peavy/Burnett/Jurrjens/Smoltz/Vazquez; 2010: Peavy/Hudson/Burnett/Jurrjens/Vazquez)?
As I mentioned above: one can always dream!
By Joe M.
December 9, 2008 9:50 AM | Link to this
Reds want Jeff and Braves don’t want to move him? Put his A@@ on the road. Why does he get special treatment/ Damn joke.
Amen. I said here at the start of the offseason if the Braves keep Francoeur and trade Escobar/Johnson, than they’re the Pirates of the NL East. Trading good players while keeping crappy ones just because of “potential” and “fan appeal” is one of the reasons the Pirates are still bad after all these years.
Look, I like Johnson, but left field should be out of the question. He’s more valuable in a trade if that is the case. As a second baseman, his offense puts him in the top-tier at a premium position. As a left fielder, he’s just bleh.
By McFann O –[zzz]
December 9, 2008 9:52 AM | Link to this
Mets are reportedly close to signing K-Rod……
……oh VORP.
By BRAVEFANINPA
December 9, 2008 9:53 AM | Link to this
DOB- I’ve ask this before and not gotten any response. Why is Pat Burrell’s name not mentioned as a possible LF? I’ve been up north here for several years and followed the phillies for about 7 of 11 years-NO they will never replace any of the ATLANTA teams- but Pat B. was a pretty darn good LF- Why no mention? Great article Dave- Go Braves-
By JohnGTFan
December 9, 2008 9:53 AM | Link to this
DOB
Come on man…LOL…why are you bringing up the possibility of Peavy? you’re going to get people excited for no reason. He’s either going to the Cubs or staying in S.D.
By Anders
December 9, 2008 9:54 AM | Link to this
Efrim
I like Snell. That guy can hurl. As for Ankiel. If the Cards are willing to move him for a non closing type releiver plus, I hope the Mets talk to them about maybe Heilman and Feliciano. Heilman is the perfect type of project for Dave Duncan. Feliciano is the type of specialist that Larussa covets too. Maybe the Mets throw in some cash with Feliciano too.
I know many on here will scream about Heilman imploding etc , but he still has upside potential imo and is cheap and controllable for another year or two which is hard to believe because it seems like he’s been around a long time already. He definetly needs a change in scenery though - too much baggage the last two years with the Mets. Just spitballing on this one.
By GermanBravesFan
December 9, 2008 9:58 AM | Link to this
Someone posting at Adolf Hitler in itself isn’t funny… the remark was even worse. Sorry…
By Efrim
December 9, 2008 10:03 AM | Link to this
Anders
I like Snell too, but he is a huge injury risk. We are in the bidding for one currently, so I’m not sure it would make sense for the Braves to go after someone like Snell through trade.
Thoughts on K-Rod? What a perfect season to be hunting for a closer or a corner OF bat. Of course, a corner OF bat if you are in the American League, because you may as well stick a basket out in LF for some of these guys.
By GTSteve
December 9, 2008 10:03 AM | Link to this
We are only about 11 weeks away from Pitchers and Catchers reporting, lets hope some things happen soon to make that mean something.
By JC from UT
December 9, 2008 10:05 AM | Link to this
if Blaine Boyer has been working with Smoltz does that mean Boyer is looking to make a run as a started or stay in the pen. IMO Boyer should bea stsrter.
By Mark
December 9, 2008 10:06 AM | Link to this
New Rumor with Francouer and Grienke on MLBTR:
According to one National League executive, the Kansas City Royals and Atlanta Braves have had serious discussions about a trade that would send outfielder Jeff Francouer to the Royals for pitcher Zack Greinke. The same source said he believed the teams were close to executing the deal, but that Atlanta was holding up any and all trade discussions until the Braves had a resolution of their pursuit of right-hander A.J. Burnett.
By flange1
December 9, 2008 10:06 AM | Link to this
Morning All,
It is always fun when the WInter Meeting start and the hot stove starts blazing!
So many options and opportunities!
I hope the Braves choose NOT to trade Gonzo. I like Soriano but am still not convinced he will ever be healthy.
I worry about giving up too much for 1 year of Ankiel. He is a Boras client and will not resign with the Braves, so it will be a 1 year rental. Maybe Redmon and and a relief pitcher….
And I go back to the suggestion I made a couple days back about talking to the Dodgers about trading Yunel for Matt Kemp and signing Furcal to play short.
It makes more sense the more I think about it.
Kemp gives you 2 RH OF to surround the left in CF. Kemp can play CF, so you can keep Diaz as the 4th OF.
It also creates a “competition” for the permanent player. Which ever of Kemp and Frenchy plays better stays when Heyward is ready, the other is traded.
But think about a bench of Norton, Prado, Infante, Diaz and BUC. That is a nice offensive group that can handle playing in the field.
It also frees up J Anderson and G Blanco for trades.
Maybe we throw in an OF and or a prospect and pick up one of LA’s short stop prospects as well.
By muxi87
December 9, 2008 10:08 AM | Link to this
From MLBtraderumors.com: According to one National League executive, the Kansas City Royals and Atlanta Braves have had serious discussions about a trade that would send outfielder Jeff Francouer to the Royals for pitcher Zack Greinke. The same source said he believed the teams were close to executing the deal, but that Atlanta was holding up any and all trade discussions until the Braves had a resolution of their pursuit of right-hander A.J. Burnett.
If that’s true, the trigger’s got to be pulled. I really doubt it, but that’d be a great deal.
By Kaiser Wilhelm II
December 9, 2008 10:08 AM | Link to this
According to one National League executive, the Kansas City Royals and Atlanta Braves have had serious discussions about a trade that would send outfielder Jeff Francouer to the Royals for pitcher Zack Greinke. The same source said he believed the teams were close to executing the deal, but that Atlanta was holding up any and all trade discussions until the Braves had a resolution of their pursuit of right-hander A.J. Burnett.
By McFann O –[zzz]
December 9, 2008 10:11 AM | Link to this
Anders I like Snell.
I like him, too…McCann hit two homers off him in one game once; has a .643 AVG, .667 OBP, and a 1.429 SLG against him…3 homers, 2 doubles, 7 RBI…
Maybe the Mets want Snell?? ; )
By GermanBravesFan
December 9, 2008 10:12 AM | Link to this
GTSteve - the Braves already signed a catcher, if that helps at all…
By Original Jon
December 9, 2008 10:15 AM | Link to this
You know, I like Burnett when he is healthy. When he is healthy, he has the stuff and mental makeup of an Ace, but, how often is he healthy? I cannot believe that Wren would actually consider going 5 years on a pitcher who has only pitched over 200 innings 3 times since 2001, especially after the rash of injuries we just had this past year. You would think he would throw that kind of money at Derek Lowe who is more durable than Burnett. Because all we need is another year where we lose our Ace due to injuries, and the bad part about that would be that we have him for 4 more years.
By The Oracle
December 9, 2008 10:18 AM | Link to this
GBF, I got a chuckle out of it. Does this mean I can’t watch my Hogan’s Heroes reruns? Perhaps we could just write WWII out of the history books.
By Corey
December 9, 2008 10:18 AM | Link to this
McFann O –[zzz] You’re right. I’d rather have Casey Krotch-man’s 14 homers than Prince Fielder’s 34 any day.
By 1957 Braves Fan
December 9, 2008 10:19 AM | Link to this
I think Francoeur for Greinke would be a good deal for both teams. But it opens up another hole in the outfield for us.
By flange1
December 9, 2008 10:20 AM | Link to this
Snell would be a great addition.
Frenchy for Greinke would be too good to dream of.
Anders, is one year or Ankiel worth Heilman and Feliciano? I would think that the 2 have more value.
By Richie
December 9, 2008 10:20 AM | Link to this
A potential Greinke for Francoeur swap? Wow!!! That would be something. You add a Burnett to that rotation as well and we have quite a formidable rotation. I would still prefer we get a LH starter, especially with the lefties and switch hitters we have in this division. But that would force us to go after 2 outfielders, though…
By Shawn B
December 9, 2008 10:22 AM | Link to this
I would love to see the Braves get Greinke, young affordable and very very good, but I can’t see the Royals being dumb enough to go him for Frenchy. Braves would have to add a lot more. Snell would also be a great addition if that is a possibility. Kevin Towers is such a jerk, I hope the Braves never do business with him.
By Efrim
December 9, 2008 10:22 AM | Link to this
http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extrabases/2008/12/andanother_thi.html
No way this happens, but anyways:
According to one National League executive, the Kansas City Royals and Atlanta Braves have had serious discussions about a trade that would send outfielder Jeff Francouer to the Royals for pitcher Zack Greinke. The same source said he believed the teams were close to executing the deal, but that Atlanta was holding up any and all trade discussions until the Braves had a resolution of their pujrsuit of right-hander A.J. Burnett. Current Royals GM Dayton Moore (who interviewed for the Red Sox’ job during Theo Epstein’s walkabout in 2005-06) is a former member of the Braves organization who is eager to bring Francouer to Kansas City.
Yea….I’m sure it’s Francoeur….and Hanson…..and Escobar.
No thanks.
By KC
December 9, 2008 10:24 AM | Link to this
I also have my doubts as to the veracity of the Francoeur/Greinke report. And if it were true, I don’t see why the Braves would be waiting to see what happens with Burnett.
By the way, I’m not sure if anyone else is mentioned it, but ESPN is a reporting in a blog the the Red Sox are also in the mix for Burnett.
By McFann O –[zzz]
December 9, 2008 10:27 AM | Link to this
Corey—
Me, too.
And, uh…it’s not “Krotchman”…there’s no “r”.
By KC
December 9, 2008 10:28 AM | Link to this
Red Sox in the mix for Burnett
Monday, December 8, 2008
Posted by Jerry Crasnick
The latest on A.J. Burnett: The pitcher’s agent, Darek Braunecker, and Mark Rodgers met with the Red Sox on Monday afternoon, and it appears Boston is right there in the mix with Atlanta and the Yankees for Burnett.
By JP
December 9, 2008 10:28 AM | Link to this
DOB, GREAT article on Maddux. With everything there is to write about the pitcher and how he pitched, it easy to see how everyone has overlooked all of the gold gloves. Just another thing that put him in a class all by himself. Thanks again for all of the insight about his stats and all of the memorable stories.
By Gary82
December 9, 2008 10:29 AM | Link to this
I would be shocked if Dayton takes Frenchy for Greinke.
By GEO123
December 9, 2008 10:29 AM | Link to this
With all due respect, I don’t think that the Cardinals would do a Gonzalez for Ankiel trade (maybe I’m wrong). Granted, Ankiel will go the FA route next year, but he’s a 30+ homer guy who plays a Plus CF with the best arm in baseball. Also, keep in mind that Gonzalez had a 4.28 ERA this past year, not exactly dominating the league. BTW how many years does Gonzalez have before FA?
I also don’t see a Kelly Johnson for anybody trade right now with the Cardinals. The Cardinals still have Adam Kennedy at 2B and owe him 4 million. So unless someone takes him off of our hands, we don’t have a need for him.
By GermanBravesFan
December 9, 2008 10:30 AM | Link to this
The Oracle - I love Hogan’s Heroes!! And, no, don’t write WWII out of the history books. I am glad it ended the way it did. Who knows, otherwise, there wouldn’t be any more baseball and all of the current Braves fans would be watching soccer instead (not that there would be anything wrong with that)…. ;-)
By Bama
December 9, 2008 10:36 AM | Link to this
If it true--Jeff for Greinke- Please don’t wait pull the trigger Wren. Holy Cow!
By DAP
December 9, 2008 10:38 AM | Link to this
trading francouer would not mean we needed to get two outfielders. the outfielders we have minus frenchy are diaz, anderson, blanco, b. jones and jordan shafer waiting in the wings, possibly ready to start out of spring training.
these are not great outfielders, but its not like we would be losing a great outfielder if we traded jeff.
By Anders
December 9, 2008 10:39 AM | Link to this
Efrim
If the Mets get K-Rod for the two year or more likely three year deal being bandied about I have no problem with that. I thought for sure it would be a 4 year minimum. I’ll be really suprised if he signs a two year deal.
If the Mets could pry Ankiel away from the Cards for the type of guys being talked about on here they could then think about trading Delgado to the loser of the Tex sweepstakes for a real good 8th inning type set-up guy. Delgado’s value is definetly up especially after last season and at $12 mil for 1 year he’s the perfect stop gap. The Mets could then move Daniel Murphy from left to 1st which is his natural position anyway. They could platoon Tatis with both Church and Ankiel as a right handed bat. They also would have Chavez on the bench for outfield defense.Ankiel, Beltran and Church left to right - not a bad outfield.
And they would still have money for a top starting pitcher and maybe another reliever. Sounds like they’re going with Jonathan Niese as their #5.
I guess I’m getting my Christmas list in order here.
By Richie
December 9, 2008 10:40 AM | Link to this
* GEO123*
Also, keep in mind that Gonzalez had a 4.28 ERA this past year, not exactly dominating the league.
BTW, remember he just came back from TJ surgery. And he didnt have his velocity back yet either. This year we will see the Gonzalez we traded for. And his is up for FA after this year, I think….
By David O'Brien
December 9, 2008 10:41 AM | Link to this
If the Cubs get Peavy in this complex multi-team trade, I’d say we have a frontrunner in the early handicapping of next season’s NL pennant race. That potential Cubs starting rotation … wow.
By Efrim
December 9, 2008 10:44 AM | Link to this
KC
Crasnick is still the only one to report that.
My guess is that the Red Sox, and Yankees, are in on everyone. Or at least checking in.
Not sure either team would go to five years for Burnett. Especially the Red Sox, who clearly have less of a desire to add pitching.
By Bubdylan
December 9, 2008 10:45 AM | Link to this
Okay, truly I have the baseball business IQ of a drunk fish, but I’ll go out on a limb and say that if the Braves get Greinke for Franceour, I’ll tattoo Frank Wren’s name on my butt cheeks and run naked down Peachtree.
By ncscoots
December 9, 2008 10:46 AM | Link to this
I think Francoeur for Greinke would be a good deal for both teams. But it opens up another hole in the outfield for us.
Not necessarily another hole. That might be the place you put a Brandon Jones/Matt Diaz platoon, always assuming you get a big bat for LF. A RH bat, that is. That platoon would certainly give you more flexibility going forward than Anderson and Blanco.
By car3boogie
December 9, 2008 10:47 AM | Link to this
How binding is an Offer made to a Free Agent.
By Anders
December 9, 2008 10:47 AM | Link to this
McFann
Maybe the Mets want Snell?? ; )
I’d be happy to have Snell serve up some dingers to your boy as long as Burrell is out of the division. He has about 29 lifetime homers against the Mets! I’m not kidding. He kills the Mets.
Maybe the Braves should consider that?
By Dean
December 9, 2008 10:48 AM | Link to this
It’s almost as if the season never ended. The bad news continues. Peavy to the Cubs. Braves work to piece together a rotation based on medical miracles. Oh, what’s that, the Phillies and Mets are actually upgrading? There’s a thought.
Can someone set me straight? We are going to add big money for Burnett and his rubber arm when we could’ve had Peavy for less money? But, you know, we won’t even get Burnett cause we bidding with the dark side.
F is a grade for the 2008 year not just season. F is for Frank and other moments of vent.
By McFann O –[zzz]
December 9, 2008 10:51 AM | Link to this
GermanBravesFan—
I LOVE Hogan’s Heros, too! One of my most favorite shows!
Later!
By Efrim
December 9, 2008 10:51 AM | Link to this
DOB
If the Cubs get Peavy in this complex multi-team trade, I’d say we have a frontrunner in the early handicapping of next season’s NL pennant race. That potential Cubs starting rotation … wow.
It’s also quite injury prone. But yes, potentially dominating.
By David O'Brien
December 9, 2008 10:51 AM | Link to this
Talked late last night to someone with good Red Sox sources who said he got the impression the team was talking to Burnett’s agent more as a backup plan than anything else, in case they don’t get Teixeira and turn their attentions (and wallet) toward pitching. And he said they don’t have A.J. atop their pitching board and probably wouldn’t go five years — unless, of course, owner John Henry really has a special interest in Burnett, who threw his nine-walk no-hitter for the Marlins when Henry owned the team.
I can still remember seeing Henry come into the clubhouse after that game, all red-faced and out of breath after literally running across the parking lot trying to make it into the stadium to see the final outs. Henry had been at dinner that night with his wife in San Diego, getting updates on Burnett’s no-hit bid, when finally he asked his wife if it’d be OK if he left to try to see the end of the game.
His cab driver had to stop at the periphery of the huge parking lot because of security, which wasn’t letting people into the lot so late in the game. Henry ran the last quarter-mile or so (it’s a huge lot at the old stadium in San Diego).
When us Marlins beat writers saw Henry, he explained what had happened.
By the way, he didn’t make it in time to see Burnett throw a single pitch.
Anyway … that’s my John Henry/A.J. Burnett no-hit story.
By Anders
December 9, 2008 10:53 AM | Link to this
If the Cubs get Peavy in this complex multi-team trade, I’d say we have a frontrunner in the early handicapping of next season’s NL pennant race. That potential Cubs starting rotation … wow.
Of course they will have to go to Washington for some “Bail out” money to meet payroll. Appears to be no shame in that these days - huh?
By Wayne in Utah
December 9, 2008 10:54 AM | Link to this
Deal or No Deal: I take the deal Mister General Manager!
Frenchy would require another arm to get Greinke (at a minimum), so send them Morton or JoJo.
Gonzo for Ankiel, I would probably do that, as you just never know about a guys arm.
So, now go sign Burnett and talk Smoltz into being our closer until his arm falls off! (gotta love that guy!)
By Joe M.
December 9, 2008 10:55 AM | Link to this
Also, keep in mind that Gonzalez had a 4.28 ERA this past year, not exactly dominating the league.
Gonzalez also had a 1.19 WHIP (lower than in 2006 and 2007) and 44 strikeouts in 33 and 2/3rds innings. Homeruns were the problem, but that’ll calm down. He should be more than good in 2009 and the Braves should absolutely not trade him.
The Royals taking Francoeur rumor is too good to be true. If it was true, why hasn’t Wren done it? The Burnett thing shouldn’t hold up that trade at all; the Braves can afford both.
By WhiteMike
December 9, 2008 10:56 AM | Link to this
If the Braves want a mid to back end of the rotation starter, I would much rather see them sign Garland for two years than trade away Francouer for Grienke.
By KC
December 9, 2008 10:56 AM | Link to this
Yeah, I sure hope the Cubs don’t get Peavy. That would make them an absolute beast.
In order to have any chance against them in October, we’d have to sign Burnett, AND we’d have to have either a big comeback from Smoltz or a Hamels-like immediate impact from Hanson.
However, if we sign Burnett, our 2010 rotation looks potentially as good as any in baseball.
By Dan
December 9, 2008 10:57 AM | Link to this
I am still holding out hope that the Braves enter the Peavy sweepstakes again. He is a much better option going forward than AJ Burnett.
Please no Rick Ankiel.
By Bama
December 9, 2008 10:58 AM | Link to this
DOB I agree Cubs would be WOW..wow..wow..ESPN said its almost done, so was the deal with Braves till..all hell broke loose. Sometimes you’re dealing with a a@@. Looks like Braves maybe out in the cold again with AJ. Hope not.
By Thundersticks
December 9, 2008 11:04 AM | Link to this
DOB
Have you heard anything on the rumored Frenchy for Greinke trade? Is there any merit to it at all?
Thanks!!
By David O'Brien
December 9, 2008 11:04 AM | Link to this
Francoeur for Greinke rumor, huh? I can’t see that. Not straight-up. Dayton Moore likes Francoeur, but I can’t see that happening without a good prospect also being sent to K.C.
I’ll ask, but would be stunned if Royals did that straight-up swap.
But I do know the Braves have talked to them this winter about Greinke, and the Royals would trade him for the right return.
Just can’t see Frenchy alone, coming off that 2008 season as something that would go over well in K.C.
By Bama
December 9, 2008 11:05 AM | Link to this
Wren needs to Call Congress and ask them about Spreading The wealth.
By Efrim
December 9, 2008 11:07 AM | Link to this
DOB
I know you said this in your blog, but do you get a sense that AJ will sign this week even after the Yanks jumping into the bidding? Sabathia is probably going to wait until after the meetings, so if the Braves offer five years, do you think he would turn it down while waiting for the Yanks offer? If so, do the Braves ask for a decision quickly before Sabathia makes his move?
By Marty
December 9, 2008 11:08 AM | Link to this
Looks like Towers definitely will not get the same caliber of talent for Peavy that he could have gotten from the Braves. It does make me wonder what was really going on there…
By Anders
December 9, 2008 11:08 AM | Link to this
The Red Sox are in on Burnett to keep the Yankees honest on Lowe. The Sox want Lowe not Burnett.
The Braves biggest concern is CC. If he doesn’t sign with the Yanks - forget Burnett. The Yanks will blow your offer away. If CC does sign with the Yanks, then we’ll see if the Yanks come close to your offer and Burnett would be happier closer to home and riding shotgun rather than having the #1 pressure in Atlanta.
By ncscoots
December 9, 2008 11:09 AM | Link to this
Yeah, I sure hope the Cubs don’t get Peavy. That would make them an absolute beast.
Right up until the time Zambrano decides he’s not getting the respect he deserves, goes postal on Peavy for taking some of the spotlight, and they both go down in a jumble of torn ligaments and fractured elbows. The team splits into factions, Pinella loses the clubhouse, Cubs go 81-81, the new owner says “to hell with this”, and slices payroll to the Padres’ level.
Peavy announces in the offseason, “I want to play for a winner.”
By PopeVanIII
December 9, 2008 11:11 AM | Link to this
DOB
Re: Francoeur for Greinke…
What if the Braves also agreed to take Jose Guillen (and the full $24 million owed to him over the next two seasons) in the deal, too? Might that (drastically) reduce the amount of additional value we’d have to add to Francoeur in the deal?
By Don't Trade Franceour, Sheesh
December 9, 2008 11:12 AM | Link to this
NNNNNOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
By Corey
December 9, 2008 11:16 AM | Link to this
The Braves finished 20 games behind Philly last year. Hudson is out for the season, so even if we get Burnett, that’s a wash.
In 2008, we started the season with Tex @ 1B and a rotation that included Hudson, Smoltz, Jurrjens, Glavine & Hampton.
Now, they plan to add an outfield bat which maybe can offset what we’re losing with Kotchman vs. Tex. But, is going into spring with Burnett, Jurrjens, Vazquez, Reyes, Hanson any better than last year (when we finished 20 games out)?
By northbeach Scott
December 9, 2008 11:20 AM | Link to this
Gaining Greinke and unburdening the Braves of Francouer would be outstanding. Even if the Braves have to add a top prospect, perhaps they could also pick up corner OF and salary of Jose Guillen.
Pray that the incompetent and ineffectual Frenchy will be gone from Atlanta.
By Wayne in Utah
December 9, 2008 11:21 AM | Link to this
scoots Weren’t we crowning the Tigers as a playoff lock last winter too?
By Voice from the past
December 9, 2008 11:22 AM | Link to this
For all who will so quickly pencil the Cubs in the 2009 World Series if they actually acquire Peavy (assuming Towers doesn’t pull another 11th hour bait and switch), may I remind you:
2008 Detroit Tigers.
Seems to me after they acquired Miguel Cabrera and Dontrelle Willis, we all thought they’d walk into the title. Didn’t happen. Gotta play the games.
I’m just sayin’…
By JR
December 9, 2008 11:22 AM | Link to this
My guess is that if the Frenchy for Greinke thing has any validity then it is their as a back up if the Braves do not get AJ. Why else would we be waiting for AJ to decide. Hopefully, AJ will see that Atlanta really wants him and is our top pick this off season and decide to sign. All of you guys that doubt AJ that’s fine, but you have to realize that’s the market for the type of pitcher he is. We need power pitching, and all of our quality pitching prospects are just that, prospects. We need MLB ready guys and I would rather see the Braves an active player in the market than someone that sits back and does nothing.
By David O'Brien
December 9, 2008 11:22 AM | Link to this
Wayne in Utah (and others who’d trade Gonzo for Ankiel): You’d really do that? Trade your closer for one year of Ankiel? And then you have to go get a closer.
Doesn’t make any sense, does it? Smoltz isn’t closing, Moylan may or may not be ready for the start of the season and surely isn’t going to be counted on as a closer with no experience in the role and coming off TJ surgery. And Braves won’t know until at least January the chances of Soriano being ready for beginning of season.
By DOB to Chitown
December 9, 2008 11:22 AM | Link to this
DOB - We need an objective opinion. City’s up in arms Santo didn’t get in HoF. Should he be in?
By Anders
December 9, 2008 11:25 AM | Link to this
I’d like everyone to meet my younger brother - Corey
By GermanBravesFan
December 9, 2008 11:27 AM | Link to this
Now, if the Cubs get Peavy, it won’t matter anymore whom the Braves get. Yes, they might make the playoffs, but how are they going to match up with he Cubs and THAT rotation???
By Bonzo
December 9, 2008 11:27 AM | Link to this
I’m guessing the only way the Braves go forward on a Frenchy-Greinke deal is if they miss out on Burnett and Peavy. Of course, if they did a Frenchy-Greinke deal I’m sure Braves would have to give a top prospect. Maybe not Hanson or Heyward big, but it would be a near can’t miss pitching prospect I’m guessing.
By Adam
December 9, 2008 11:28 AM | Link to this
I have serious doubts that KC would trade Greinke straight up for Frenchy, but both teams have players that appeal to each other. KJ or Escobar would both be a nice fit for KC and the Braves need an ace and Greinke fits the bill. I could also see Guillen as a player the Braves would be interested in. Frenchy, KJ and maybe JoJo or Morton and a high level prospect not named Hanson or Heyward. Greinke would be dominant in the NL.
By JR
December 9, 2008 11:28 AM | Link to this
KC
If the Cubs get Peavy they’re a beast “on paper”. Just like the Yankees have been a beast “on paper” too. The Cubs will find a way to LOSE. There’s not much meddle to that team. A lot of talent, but no meddle
By Lee in S GA
December 9, 2008 11:28 AM | Link to this
I had rather Peavy go to the Cubs than the Phillies. They are after all the Cubs therefore prone to not having back to back winning seasons, and if going to the post season, blowing the 1st round of the playoffs leaving their fans on the brink of going to AA meetings instead of future Wrigley Field and Turner Field games. Also not to mention Sweet Lou finally going berserk and Zambrano (who I would assume the Braves would not want either becasue of his attitude)eventually punching a Cub player in the face. I see disaster instead of World series written all over this if the trade happens.
By Mike
December 9, 2008 11:29 AM | Link to this
If it was Frenchy for Grienke straight up or for on more no name prospect. i guess go for it, though it shouldn’t stop our AJ pursuit, and i am still wary of giving up on Frenchy just yet. If he realizes his potential, that would suck. But so would him having another bad year and then we really are stuck with him. Also dont trade KJ or Gonzo or Esco for one year of Ankiel. Hes good, but not that good for one year of his services.
By Thrillhouse44
December 9, 2008 11:31 AM | Link to this
Corey, Hudson, Smoltz, Glavine, and Hampton all missed significant time due to injuries last year. One has to think that it’s improbable that kind of luck will strike again.
By GermanBravesFan
December 9, 2008 11:32 AM | Link to this
How about Boyer for Ankiel?
By Voice of the past
December 9, 2008 11:32 AM | Link to this
By DOB to Chitown December 9, 2008 11:22 AM | Link to this DOB - We need an objective opinion. City’s up in arms Santo didn’t get in HoF. Should he be in?
If you get Peavy, you will, in fact, be up in arms. Up by alot.
By ernesto
December 9, 2008 11:36 AM | Link to this
DOB - is that Stark article on ESPN accurate, it’s either the Cubs get Peavy or he stays in SD?
Or more posturing from Towers?
It’s getting hard to tell.
By John
December 9, 2008 11:39 AM | Link to this
DOB!!!!!!!!
I am hearing from MLBTRADERUMORS>COM that a possible swapping of Francouer and Grienke could soon occur.
Any news on that??
thanks as always
By AR Brave
December 9, 2008 11:39 AM | Link to this
Gonzo for one year of Ankiel does make sense because to the plethora of closers available on the market right now. and has anyone seen ankiel’s defensive arm? We need pop in batting line up? Add prince fielder and dunn. trade kotchman who is a good player but nothing above good. sign dunn. keep the middle infield and sign AJ. screw peavy and towers for the way they handled this situation. They might want a guy from us someday, but nope we are through with them. Keep frenchy and tell him to mimic chipper in the batter’s box so maybe he can learn some patience.
By Jake W
December 9, 2008 11:40 AM | Link to this
If the Braves end up not getting Burnett and ESPN reporting the Padres are close to trading Peavy to the Cubs, what are the chances they go after Sheets? I know he’s not what we want with his injury history but maybe we can get him at a cheaper price and take the risk that he’ll actually stay healthy.
And I agree with you DOB anyone wanting to trade Gonzo would be crazy with all the injury questions we have with our bullpen.
And to Anders I appreciate your concern over the Braves but why don’t you tell me about the mets and what they are trying to do to get better instead of worrying so much about what the Braves are doing.
By Wayne in Utah
December 9, 2008 11:41 AM | Link to this
Dave It would be hard to do, but I would entertain trading Gonzo. The closer market seems to be a buyers market this year. I have hopes that Gonzo is going to be great for years to come, but we have all seem first hand the fragile nature of pitchers in general.
Guys like Trevor Hoffman and Kerry Wood are available, and others are available in trade (Putz, Valverde, Street, etc).
I think I would do it.
By Random
December 9, 2008 11:41 AM | Link to this
Anders: “The Braves biggest concern is CC. If he doesn’t sign with the Yanks - forget Burnett. The Yanks will blow your offer away. If CC does sign with the Yanks, then we’ll see if the Yanks come close to your offer and Burnett would be happier closer to home and riding shotgun rather than having the #1 pressure in Atlanta.”
So — Burnett’s too timid (or whatever) to be the #1 pitcher in player-friendly Atlanta, but would jump at the chance to be the #1 pitcher in NYC (if Sabathia winds up elsewhere)???
Doesn’t seem to make much sense to me — just how “blown away” are you thinking?
By BravesFanInRockies
December 9, 2008 11:44 AM | Link to this
PopeVanIII,
Yeah, I could see something like that, esp. if the Royals need to dump Guillen’s salary.
The Braves may have to offer a RP/swing man (Campillo? Bennett?) or minor league pitching prospect (the Royals now need bullpen arms) to make the deal work. But yeah, Francoeur/arm for Greinke/Guillen might actually make sense — especially since Moore seems enamored of Frenchy.
By Bubdylan
December 9, 2008 11:44 AM | Link to this
Corey, building an argument on the 20-games-out is suspect. Lots of one-thing-leads-to-another stuff happened to build that deficit.
Wouldn’t it be better to compare teams player-by-player and see how they stack up after these presumed trades?
Also, you’ve framed your argument as if that team we started with in ‘08 is the one that finished 20 games out. Not so.
By Anders
December 9, 2008 11:47 AM | Link to this
Voice from the past
Very clever 11:32 post. True too.
By DAP
December 9, 2008 11:48 AM | Link to this
corey is going into spring with Burnett, Jurrjens, Vazquez, Reyes, Hanson any better than last year (when we finished 20 games out)?
yeah, it really would be, if we get innings out of those top three, that would be great. did you know that jurjens pitched the most innings on the braves staff last year? 188 innings from our rookie pitcher, who was supposed to be our #5 starter. this put a large amount of innings on our bullpen, which was also riddled with injury (soriano, moylan, gonzalez) and the overload eventually was way to much and these guys started losing games for us.
if we have those top three pitchers you mentioned, and they all give us 200 innings (which isnt unreasonable) our bullpen, which will have a healthy gonzalez, soriano, and moylan back will perform better and win us more games. which means, it wont be a wash, it will be a huge improvement.
By Trent
December 9, 2008 11:51 AM | Link to this
AR Brace: I’m glad you’re not our GM….come on dude…We don’t have a closer if we trade gonzo…you’re compounding a problem with another problem. Moylan and Soriano may or may not be healthy and when you already have a guy that is proven and is going to be 100% why give him up for 1 year or a Boras client.
By bill
December 9, 2008 11:51 AM | Link to this
Hey Corey, won’t it depend on who actually plays games during the season where we finish in the standings?
Seems some of the guys you mentioned as our starters last year didn’t actually start so many games.
So if your projected list of starters for 2009 miss the same number of starts then the answer is .. WGAS.
If those starters make 25-32 starts each then who knows what it will mean. I suspect that would mean a lot better than 18 games under .500.
Also you’re leaving Smoltz out of the equation and from the sound of it he is going to be healthier than he’s been for several years. Plus Hudson will be back for the end of the season, though I’d prefer not to expect anything from him until 2010.
If we have Burnett, Smoltz, JJ, Vasquez and the best of Hanson/Morton/JoJo/Campillo signed and healthy for 2008 then frankly the Braves will contend for the playoffs even if the offense is no better than 2008.
I still would like to see some kind of leadoff hitter included in our plans.
By Anders
December 9, 2008 11:53 AM | Link to this
AR Brave
Based on the content of your 11:39 post I most stunned that you used the word “plethora”. Somehow it just doesn’t fit the profile of the rest of that post.
By Ritchie from Scotland
December 9, 2008 11:55 AM | Link to this
Gonzo for Ankiel sounds like a bad idea to me. Surely we can get an outfielder without having to give up our close. Gonzo was priceless when he came back last year and he adds some passion and intensity to the team which I think is important. I would love for the Braves to get Greinke, I wonder how much it would take to get him. I wouldn’t include Frenchy though, that just creates another hole to fill and I think he’ll be his old self again in 09. A rotation of Burnett, Greinke, Jurrjens, Vazquez and Hanson/Morton/Campillo/Smoltz sounds really good to me. Bobby Cox said it himself, you need good pitching.
By flange1
December 9, 2008 11:59 AM | Link to this
Folks, we need to remember that it is rumor season and that just because it is printed does not mean it is true or that it will happen!
By Voice from the past
December 9, 2008 12:03 PM | Link to this
If you’re going to talk about Jeremy Hermida and his potential, why not talk about Delmon Young? He’s on the block in Minny…
By Anders
December 9, 2008 12:04 PM | Link to this
Jake W
And to Anders I appreciate your concern over the Braves but why don’t you tell me about the mets and what they are trying to do to get better instead of worrying so much about what the Braves are doing.
See my 10:39 post this morning. You did hear they made an offer to K-Rod? I’m thinking that will help.
By Mr J
December 9, 2008 12:09 PM | Link to this
If Francoeur was actually traded, that might explain the Braves interest in one year of Ankiel. Ankiel might be a stop-gap until the arrival of Heyward in 2010.
By Efrim
December 9, 2008 12:13 PM | Link to this
How does Kevin Towers keep his job if the return on this trade is: J.A. Happ, Sean Marshall, and Garret Olsen? That is three 4/5 starters….and that is if everything goes right. Wow, did he screw up or what?
By AR Brave
December 9, 2008 12:13 PM | Link to this
Trent You are completely correct that if we lose Gonzo we will not have a closer. Dont get me wrong I think Gonzo is a great closer for us. I also agree with the Boras hold up. I am just talking freely about ideas not saying my idea is better or “more right” than any others.
Anders Thanks for the kind words. Next thing you will say is where did guys from arkansas learn how to read. Ive heard them all.
By dack jerrick
December 9, 2008 12:16 PM | Link to this
Remember that the last Cardinals-Braves trade was a disaster for Atlanta. Braves gave up Adam Wainwright and Jason Marquis for a one-year rental of J.D. Drew. Black day for the Bravos. Surely Wren wouldn’t let the red birds snooker us a second time.
By Anders
December 9, 2008 12:18 PM | Link to this
Random
I never said Burnett is too timid to pitch in Atlanta, I said for the same money he’d would be happier to ride shot gun to CC closer to home etc..
If the Yanks don’t get CC do you really think they’ll take a chance on not getting Burnett? Why do you think Burnett is waiting? The Braves aren’t going to 6 years. The Yanks will give him 5 years guaranteed at the most $’s if they miss CC. Then they’ll turn to Lowe imo. Fall back plan on Lowe would be they pay more to Pettitte than they want to.
The teams left without dance partners will then have to see Mr. Boras about Oliver Perez. That’s why Boras is holding him back. He’d be better served after the aces have all been dealt.
By GermanBravesFan
December 9, 2008 12:20 PM | Link to this
Thanks, flange 1 for being the Voice of Reason here!
By safebet
December 9, 2008 12:23 PM | Link to this
just saw where Derosa might be avaible. at 5.5 mill. would be a great fit for any team. like to see the braves go after him. dont see why any team would want to help cubbies get Peavy. like shooting your self in the foot. mainly if your a contender.
By Braveheart
December 9, 2008 12:23 PM | Link to this
Braveheart, I guess I’ll have to slip on my latte-stained faded khakis and grab a white wine, then, if a set of stats is trying to convince me that KJ is (far) worse defensively than Jose Lopez and Dan Uggla. I think I’ll just go with my own anecdotal evidence that says, “bubba, that just ain’t right.”
Geez, what have you guys done with Scoots? Now he’s also an argyle sock wearing member of the KJ fan club. Is he wearing Ralph Lauren like the rest of ya?
These defensive metrics are obviously flawed and you have to look at and weigh about 5 different ones to get a general idea of how good a defender these guys are. UZR however seems to nail just how good other Braves are defensively.
It says that defensively Kotchman is second to only Albert at first over the last three seasons. That agrees with observation.
It says Yunel was the fourth best defender at short in the majors last season. Give or take a little, that generally agrees with observation.
It says that the last two seasons defensively, at third base, Chipper is just a notch below that elite Feliz, Beltre, Rolen, Lowell, Longoria, Zimmerman crowd. That agrees with observation as well.
It says Frenchy was below average defensively in 2008 and slightly above average in 2006 and 2007 (not taking his arm into consideration). That generally agrees with observation of Frenchy’s defense the last few years.
It says that in every single season from 2002 through 2007, Andruw Jones was the best or second best defender in center field in the majors. That agrees with observation
It says Edgar Renteria was dead average defensively at short in 2006 and 2007. That agrees with observation. It says Tex was the best last year defensively at first. That agrees with observation. It says Gregor Blanco is a good defensive leftfielder and a slightly below average defensive centerfielder. It says Langerhans is a great defensive corner outfielder and an average defensive centerfielder. It says Willie Harris is a great defensive corner outfielder and an above average defensive centerfielder. It says Marcus Giles was a slightly better than average defensive second baseman from 2002 through 2005, that Martin is a below average defensive infielder and that Josh Anderson is a slightly above average defensive centerfielder. That all agrees with observation.
This UZR stat ain’t perfect but does seem to agree with our general observations of most of our defenders. But we should disregard it altogether just because the picnic in the park having KJ crowd is inconvenienced by having the stat confirm the observation and belief of most Braves fans that KJ is a sorry second baseman defensively?
By Marty
December 9, 2008 12:30 PM | Link to this
Anders - Some of the “experts” apparently believe that Francisco Rodriguez is far from as dominant as his numbers last season suggest and that he has already lost a lot in terms of “stuff.” Here’s what Keith Law of Scouts, Inc. said about Rodriguez on ESPN.com last month:
Yes, that’s a purty number in the saves column, but it serves to obscure some troubling signs in K-Rod’s stuff and peripherals. He’s sitting 91-93 mph now with good life, but his once-devastating slider is far less sharp, and he pitches much more off his fastball than he did before, mixing in an average changeup more frequently than he did in the days when he earned the “K” in his nickname.
His strikeout rate has been falling with the quality of his pitches, and the average length of his outings has dropped, which might be a sign that he can’t be stretched out for two innings if need be; he didn’t record more than three outs in any game during the regular season. Among players likely to get contracts of four years or longer, K-Rod probably represents the greatest risk of a flameout.
Not having had much of an opportunity to watch him pitch, I don’t have much of an opinion. Just thought I’d pass that along, though.
By Efrim
December 9, 2008 12:30 PM | Link to this
I still haven’t seen Francoeur for Greinke shot down….
which would alarm me if I were a Royals fan.
By LKS
December 9, 2008 12:30 PM | Link to this
If the deal would be Greinke for Frenchie straight up?!?!? I would pack up frechies mansion, drive him to the airport, and cry watching the plane take-off……tears of JOY!!! I would even rent a U-Haul and drive his belongings to KC. He is a great guy with a great personality but…..we r paying him to be a great baseball player.
By GermanBravesFan
December 9, 2008 12:31 PM | Link to this
I am close to saying let the Padres have Hanson (but keep Escobar), then give Burnett his fifth year and trade for Ankiel. Let’s keep our fingers crossed Francoeur will produce and the Braves will be alright!
Would be nice to have Peavy/Burnett/Smoltz/Jurrjens/Vazquez
By Chuck James is solid until the 6th!! (Formerly Steve-O)
December 9, 2008 12:32 PM | Link to this
McFann
Sorry I havn’t been on since my last post lst nite…But yeh I cant even copy and paste and then re-paste on here so I dunno? But yeh watching AJ dominate on that clip was rediculous!! I can only imagine a healthy Smoltz and Burnett starting in the playoffs…WOW!
By StingerSplash
December 9, 2008 12:32 PM | Link to this
Several years ago, the great Thomas Boswell had a terrific magazine piece on Maddux that showed how he was on and off the field and the tremendous respect he earned - earned - from his teammates and foes.
Can’t remember if it was that story or another that talked about how all the other Braves copied Maddux’s every move in pre-game. If he stretched, they stretched. If he started running, they started running. All without a word having to be said.
By Marty
December 9, 2008 12:34 PM | Link to this
Braveheart, I’m not going to argue with you about KJ and UZR. Suffice it to say that there are many out there whose “general observations and belief” about KJ’s defensive capabilities disagree with yours.
By N8
December 9, 2008 12:34 PM | Link to this
Corey
“But, is going into spring with Burnett, Jurrjens, Vazquez, Reyes, Hanson any better than last year (when we finished 20 games out)?”
Of course it’s better. Just probably not good enough, considering that the Mets and Philles were 20 games ahead of us and they too are trying to improve their team’s weaknesses.
People, there are reports that the Mets are close to signing K-Rod.
Wagner and the rest of that Mets bullpen was their only true weakness last year. Adding K-rod alone to that team, has gotta be good for about 5-10 additional winns. Provided that everything else (rotation, lineup, defense and most importantly HEALTH), is the same as last year.
That being said, we assumed adding Glavine’s “innings” to the 2007 output of our team would put us over the hump too, but….
By Voice from the past
December 9, 2008 12:35 PM | Link to this
By GermanBravesFan December 9, 2008 12:20 PM | Link to this Thanks, flange 1 for being the Voice of Reason here!
I thought I was the Voice of Reason!?!
By Salty Dawg
December 9, 2008 12:37 PM | Link to this
DOB - If the Cubs get Peavy in this complex multi-team trade, I’d say we have a frontrunner in the early handicapping of next season’s NL pennant race. That potential Cubs starting rotation … wow.
On paper, sure. But it’s certainly not a lock. It seems like more often than not the team that goes the furthest is one that plays well together. Call it “geling” or whatever, but look at what the Rays did last year. By no means the best team on paper, but they played great together and everyone played a little above their abilities somehow. That is what makes a great team, in my opinion. You get so many marquee players on a team and sometimes things just don’t click because they don’t have synergy.
I heard a standup comedien a while back, think his name was Doug Stanhope. He was pretty offensive (and hilarious) for the most part. He was talking about baseball and Yankees fans. Basically his point was that it takes no heart to root for the team that is packed to the gills with the best players money can buy. Said that guys who pull for the Yankees probably go to Vegas and root for the House to win. I thought it was funny as hell.
By Thundersticks
December 9, 2008 12:37 PM | Link to this
Folks, we need to remember that it is rumor season and that just because it is printed does not mean it is true or that it will happen! flange1
I agree 100%, but will take it one step further. During these meetings, executives will discuss all sorts of scenarios, some are serious but most are just for kicks. (i.e. I’ll trade you a bag of balls for your former Cy Young winner.) I’m sure there is some basis of truth to the Franceour for Greinke rumor, but right now we don’t know how far that conversation went.
Until DOB confirms it, I won’t believe it.
By Dadgum
December 9, 2008 12:42 PM | Link to this
It is being reported by Jason Stark and others that the Braves are totally out of the Jake Peavy trade negotiations. Jake Peavy’s train may have left the station but it ain’t headed to Atlanta. Glad we can check him off the list so now we move on.
Time to sweeten the AJ Burnett offer by guaranteeing the 5th year and having him sign, oh, say, right about NOW. Sure it is risky but so is Peavy, Lowe, CC, and just about every other ace pitcher you can name. It really is as simple as sucking it up and pulling the trigger. With CC looking like a Dodger in ‘09, the Yankees are going to come after AJ hard. If the Braves show him some love, by guaranteeing the 5th year, he may well sign with Atlanta immediately.
Even money says that if Smoltz progresses as indicated he will pitch in the #2 slot in the rotation. My two cents.
Rock on……enjoy life and be thankful.
By N8
December 9, 2008 12:43 PM | Link to this
Does anybody know the status of Greinke’s contract? When is he a free agent?
Because if he’s “under control” (arbitration eligible) for a couple more years, I’d trade for him at his age, before shelling out 5 years to Burnett.
Even if Francoeur had to go.
For starters, I don’t think Jeff will turn it around. Tons of heart, great effort on his behalf. He just doesn’t have it in him (or the coaching staff doesn’t have it in them to DEMAND it - they proved that by ONLY leaving him in the minors for 2 days), to make the neccesary changes.
Secondly, Greinke would appear to be less risk for missing time due to injury.
Third with young Jordan, Gorkys and Heyward on the way up, Jeff’s days in a Braves uniform are numbered. Period. Why you ask? Because if he doesn’t step his game up BIG TIME, he will eventually be replaced by the youngsters. And even if he does step his game up big-time, by the time he’s up for a new contract, he’ll be too expensive for the Braves to want to keep…. with youngsters ready to take his spot.
No long-term future for Jeff in Atlanta (anymore). That went out the window when he declined the similar deal that McCann took.
Like it or not, Jeff is the stop-gap RF until the yound dudes are ready.
THAT is why I think this rumor is BS. Because Wren would be stupid not to jump at it PRONTO, and walk away from the Burnett negotiations.
Just my opinion.
By GermanBravesFan
December 9, 2008 12:45 PM | Link to this
Voice of the Past - no, you are not. You are what you are… a voice from the past…
By Lee in S GA
December 9, 2008 12:45 PM | Link to this
Are we sure we have the right pitchers’ name mentioned as in Greinke here; I am thinking more on the terms that the Royals meant trading Kyle Davies back to Atlanta for Francoeur? No way the Royals front office is that stupid to make that trade w/o other pieces coming along with Frenchy.
By Random
December 9, 2008 12:46 PM | Link to this
Anders: “I never said Burnett is too timid to pitch in Atlanta, I said for the same money he’d would be happier to ride shot gun to CC closer to home etc..”
Anders, you speculated (“we’ll see”) that “Burnett would be happier” not “having the #1 pressure in Atlanta.”
You put forth no basis for that speculation, and I referred to him not as “too timid” but as “too timid (or whatever)” — which should have covered whatever your reasoning was.
Whatever your reasoning was, how can Burnett’s alleged desire to avoid “#1 pressure” be a factor in his hypothetical choice of NYC (sans CC) over Atlanta?
By safebet
December 9, 2008 12:46 PM | Link to this
Im just in awe if Braves could pick up Grinke and guillen. for frenchy , Jojo , Ascosto or another pull the trigger. Kelly for Ankiel and a prospect go for it. then we wait on Burnett. not a big deal if we dont get him.
By TennesseePaul
December 9, 2008 12:47 PM | Link to this
Trade Gonzo for Ankiel? No. I’d approach Gonzo about a contract extension. There are way to many closers on the market now. Dealing one would be dealing at a time of least value, even if they are “good” closers. Sign him to a 2 or 3 year deal. Then if needs be you can trade him in a year or two when there are no closers on the market theoretically his value would be higher.
By Anders
December 9, 2008 12:48 PM | Link to this
Marty
I’ve seen most of what you posted at 12:30 and can’t argue against any of it as I haven’t seen much of the guy either. That’s why I’m glad the price is dropping along with the years. All we know is he broke the single season record for saves last year. What better guy to take a discounted flyer on? Plus at these prices I expect the Mets may get a decent back-up closer/8th inning guy.
Lastly, most people including myself thought the Phils were grasping at straws with Lidge last off season. Look how that worked out. So who knows - right?
By N8
December 9, 2008 12:49 PM | Link to this
GermanBravesFan
You’re crazy.
I’m going on record RIGHT NOW. Hanson will make more starts and have better numbers than Burnett this year, and will enter the 2010 season as the Ace of the staff.
Is that too much confidence in Hanson? Sure, but cut me some slack, I’m not that much of a homer, so I’m afforded a prediction now and then.
Besides, the Burnett/Hanson comparison has more to do with a lack of confidence in Burnett finishing the season with more than 20 starts, than it does with Hanson’s ability (which he hasn’t shown above AA ball).
As for the Ace of the staff remark? All the kid needs is time. He appears to be THAT good. Give him the experience and he’ll be the leader of that rotation, until he is elegible for free agency and the Braves choose not to re-sign him. LOL!
By Black Betty
December 9, 2008 12:52 PM | Link to this
Bam-ba-Lam, Whoa where’s my Ram Jam?
By TennesseePaul
December 9, 2008 12:54 PM | Link to this
Illinois Gov. Rod R. Blagojevich and his Chief of Staff, John Harris, were arrested today by FBI agents on federal corruption charges alleging that they and others are engaging in ongoing criminal activity: conspiring to obtain personal financial benefits for Blagojevich by leveraging his sole authority to appoint a United States Senator; threatening to withhold substantial state assistance to the Tribune Company in connection with the sale of Wrigley Field…
What a frickin mess.
By flange1
December 9, 2008 12:56 PM | Link to this
voice from the past,
You will always be Raisins to me!
By Mr J
December 9, 2008 12:57 PM | Link to this
Quick research on Greinke indicates that he was on the disabled list for psycological problems. Does anybody know the story on that?
By safebet
December 9, 2008 1:00 PM | Link to this
one more comment on potential trades, when we trade with teams like K.C. Pittsburgh Padres, etc. when the prospect becomes good F.A. we can get them back. let others get them seasoned. were building for playoffs. not tripple A. I also havent heard any commets on frenchy not taking the money while he could. ala B.MCcan. enjoy the blogs hope some of this info gets passed on or talked about. in the upper rooms you guys have some good ideas. some times thoughts just arent thought of just by three or four people.
By nolie
December 9, 2008 1:01 PM | Link to this
This is what I wrote at the beginning of my post:
As far as the Mike Gonzalez for Rick Ankiel rumor, that makes zero sense to me, and I am sure it does to the Braves too Efrim
Sorry, I didn’t make myself clear, I was really reacting more to calling Ankiel a proven run producer. I realized that you weren’t advocating that trade.I was just emphasizing that I wouldn’t give up any impact player for him right now, and I’m skeptical about Ludwick continuing in last years vein, & would not trade KJ or YE for him either.Like I said I am always interested in your take on young players, but just didn’t agree with that classification.
By Jake W.
December 9, 2008 1:04 PM | Link to this
So Anders that one signing fixes all that ails the Mets. Is there no more talk around Metville. By the way since you know so much about what the Braves are doing what do you think of the supposed trade of Peavy to the Cubs with the Phillies jumping in? Do you think the Pads are getting a better deal than the package the braves offered?
By Jimmy Piersall
December 9, 2008 1:06 PM | Link to this
Yeah, Greinke was in the looney bin with me. He is as crazy as a sh— house rat, but in good way. He kept asking about missing strawberries … not sure what that was about.
By MattyRoss
December 9, 2008 1:08 PM | Link to this
N8,
You might be right that the rumor is BS, but I honestly don’t think it makes much sense for the Royals or the Braves. It sounds like Moore wouldn’t want Francoeur unless he was getting rid of Guillen, and to me that’s not a good idea for the Braves. Dude made 12 million last year and hit 20 HR, Frenchy made 460k and hit 11. Maybe both guys do better next year (Francoeur can’t go anywhere but up, especially judging by his September performance) but I’d rather be betting 460k than 12m.
Unless we’re getting Guillen and Greinke and then adding ANOTHER bat, it doesn’t seem like it would work. Plus Jose’s a douche. Plus we’d probably lose a middle infielder, either forfeiting Kelly’s offense for Prado or losing Yunel and signing another SS. Not enough $$, and a massive headache in dealing with Guillen. Maybe I’m too naive, but I feel like there is a Braves type player, and that he’s not it. No thank you. I’d LOVE Greinke, but not with that little caveat.
By Staggerlee
December 9, 2008 1:09 PM | Link to this
I’m sick of reading about or seeing Peavy’s name on every baseball web site I go to! The idiot wants to be a Cub. Well good! Get the crap done! If it doesn’t happen then he can play for what will most likely be the worst team in baseball. He deserves it. He decided he wouldn’t play for Atlanta because the Braves aren’t close enough to contenders. I guess the jerk thinks the Poopdres are gonna tear it up! What a puke. Go away Jake! You disgust me!
By nolie
December 9, 2008 1:10 PM | Link to this
if a set of stats is trying to convince me that KJ is (far) worse defensively than Jose Lopez and Dan Uggla. I think I’ll just go with my own anecdotal evidence that says, “bubba, that just ain’t right.” scoots
yeah, what I said too more or less. Defensive stats are still pretty subjective and of far less reliability than hitting and then pitching.
By Lew
December 9, 2008 1:10 PM | Link to this
Nathan-I tend to agree with you about Hanson and think giving him up would be Idiocy Personified. However, I’ll bet you one of my drawings to that CD you already promised me (subtle hint?) that Frenchy has a comeback season this year. He will bring his average back to .275 or above and knock in his 100+ again. Dude’s highly motivated. Bank on it. I’m willing to do so.
By Lew
December 9, 2008 1:12 PM | Link to this
MrJ-Yeah-he kept thinking he was Sandy Koufax in Bob Wickman’s body.
By ecpglp
December 9, 2008 1:12 PM | Link to this
N8 - Greinke won’t be FA eligible until after the 2010 season, so yes, he’s “under control” for a couple of years yet.
But this scenario is ludicrous. KC wants three major leaguers and two top prospects for Greinke alone, according to Jayson Stark’s column yesterday. That’s quite a haul for any team and would cause every GM to hesitate. Moore obviously is not very interested in trading him.
By ncscoots
December 9, 2008 1:13 PM | Link to this
Marty, it’s OK…Braveheart knows I don’t much give a hang that someone (shoot, or many someones, for that matter) disagrees with me, LOL. I just assume they are lacking critical information needed to form the right opinion (that is, MY opinion). :-)
BH, I’m more of a clocks-on-my-socks guy, rather than argyles. Though I have some of those, too! The clocks look a little better with my khakis and Cole-Haans, LOL. And, DAMN, I look good in ‘em.
By N8
December 9, 2008 1:13 PM | Link to this
On the flipside of thinking that the Greinke/Francoeur banter is BS and could pick up steam.
Is the fact that Moore (Royals GM) knows plenty about the guys in the Braves system and would know exactly what he was getting into if there were other prospects included on our behalf (which would almost have to be done - NO WAY that deal happens straight up Francoeur for Greinke.. NO WAY).
So this could be one of those deals that just builds and builds a week or so after the meetings, of couruse it could just be BS too. :-)
By safebet
December 9, 2008 1:13 PM | Link to this
when it comes to prospects, see who the marlins are after and go from there.
By Efrim
December 9, 2008 1:16 PM | Link to this
nolie
I don’t think Ankiel is a proven bat. I’m not sure Ludwick is either. But they need some type of run producing bat, and if they aren’t trading top prospects or don’t like most FA OF’s, than I’m not sure how they get that bat.
By cmac1919
December 9, 2008 1:16 PM | Link to this
Okay, say we do trade Francouer for Grienke (which I really hope doesn’t because wouldn’t that opening up another hole in the outfield? And I really am sold on the idea that Francouer’s going to have a great season next year)
Anyway, if FW does trade for Grienke, would he still be pushing hard for Burnett? Or would we go into next season with Grienke as our “ace”
By Braveheart
December 9, 2008 1:16 PM | Link to this
Braveheart, I’m not going to argue with you about KJ and UZR. Suffice it to say that there are many out there whose “general observations and belief” about KJ’s defensive capabilities disagree with yours
Marty, there are also many who still insist Derek Jeter isn’t the sorry defensive shortstop he is …… although years and years of observation and stats tell you Jeter is really woeful defensively. KJ’s + bat and + baserunning make him enough of a valuable asset that his inferior defense is tolerable.
By Robert(Chipper Is The Best)
December 9, 2008 1:17 PM | Link to this
How about Frenchy and Jo Jo Reyes for Greinke? The Braves can then make a serious run at either Abreu or even Dunn.
By Thundersticks
December 9, 2008 1:18 PM | Link to this
The Dodgers have made re-signing Furcal their top priority, says Tom Verducci.
If we’re going to trade Escobar and Furcal is our replacement SS, we better get moving!!
By JR
December 9, 2008 1:20 PM | Link to this
It kind of seems like the Greinke rumor was fabricated by someone at the meetings who has an agenda. Not sure what the agenda is but oh well. I hear the Cardinals are also shopping Duncan. He has way more upside but is damaged goods. What do y’all think about him? Isn’t this fun Braves fans we are players in the market. Hopefully we won’t come up empty handed or even worse get a bunch of bums
By Original Jon
December 9, 2008 1:20 PM | Link to this
You know what I just thought was funny? I read on a Mets Blog that the Braves were in every trade rumor out there, lol. Its nice to finally be the ones with our foots in the door and not on the outside looking in. you know?
By The Rev. Jim Jones
December 9, 2008 1:21 PM | Link to this
Have you people been drinking my kool-aid? KJ is one of the worst 2nd basemen in the league. In this case stats don’t tell the true picture. He loses games single-handedly. Yes he can hit, but in streaks, and end the end, he is a .280 hitter with above average speed. But not the kind of speed that threatens the opposing battery. Overall, he’s just average. Stop recreating history. He’s not a superstar. Sorry children, now drink up.
By Anders
December 9, 2008 1:23 PM | Link to this
Jake W
I never said one signing fixed the Mets ails. I think if they get K-Rod it’s a huge start. They have more money to spend.
As for the Peavy deal, I’ve been on record on this blog that it wasn’t the slam dunk many on here thought it was. I even questioned a while back wether Peavy really wanted to go to the Braves. I got slaughtered for that. If it turns out he didn’t, then I think that will officially close the door on the magical lure of Bobby Cox and the Braves organization. I mean, even Hampton bolted for less money and gave that lame kid excuse again.
I haven’t heard that the Phils are on Peavy’s list so not sure how true that is.
Wren’s in a tough spot. He needs an ace bad, everyone knows it and he’s up against the big boys to sign one. He’s either got to overpay with money or prospects. He appears to be leaning towards the former. I’m not sure why he closed the Peavy door even for appearance sake? Doesn’t make sense to me. If Burnett thought the Braves might pull the trigger on the Peavy deal tonight wouldn’t he be more inclined to sign a deal now? Instead he controls the timing. I guess we’ll find out in time.
By My Entire Team Sucks
December 9, 2008 1:24 PM | Link to this
i will never believe anything from the mets blog about the braves - they claim braves are in seious discussions for Dye. i would like to believe that though..
By Lee in S GA
December 9, 2008 1:24 PM | Link to this
By reading and searching the internet a lot of Greinke psychological problems seem to relate to his being painfully selfconscious and excessively shyness in psychological terms. If he comes to Atlanta he may need to stay away from reading this blog.
By Jim
December 9, 2008 1:25 PM | Link to this
I hope that Escobar stays with the Braves. He has a chance to be a really good player. A trade involving Escobar could be one that Braves fans regret for a long time.
By Joe M.
December 9, 2008 1:29 PM | Link to this
@1:16: OMG! You really wouldn’t want to do that trade (Francoeur for Greinke)? Seriously?! Just wow. Francoeur is going to have NO value after he stinks it up in 2009 and Grienke is an ace. The people who wouldn’t do this trade are the Royals, not the Braves.
MetsBlog:
According to WFAN’s Sweeny Murti, the Braves are in serious discussions with the White Sox about bringing Jermaine Dye back to Atlanta, where he began his career 12 years ago.
By Bartman
December 9, 2008 1:30 PM | Link to this
Truth to the Rumor??? To David O’
Is it true that the Cubs like the package that the Braves were offering the Padres for Peavy? They have said they would need to trim payroll to get Peavy and….they don’t really “need” him…so they would, in turn, trade him to Atlanta for Escobar and the prospects offered to San Diego? So if Atlanta signs Burnett, they will NOT make the trade but if Burnett signs elsewhere, they will make that trade and move him on to Atlanta… Seems to work for me… Any chance you can check that out?
I hope we don’t trade for Ankiel without a contract extension being worked out. We don’t need another Texiera trade.
By Staggerlee
December 9, 2008 1:30 PM | Link to this
Moore isn’t going to trade Zack unless he gets a godfather offer. Nobody wants Francouer except our 3a team. Atlanta really needs 2 good outfielders, not just one. Bobby Cox would sing the praises of any player he wants to move. It’s a cover.
By Bobby's Cox
December 9, 2008 1:30 PM | Link to this
If the Cubs get Peavy in this complex multi-team trade, I’d say we have a frontrunner in the early handicapping of next season’s NL pennant race.
That’s exactly why I don’t agree with the reports, if the report is the same from what i saw yesterday. The report yesterday was that Philly would be the 3rd team that could give the Pads the prospects.
Why would the reigning WS Champs give the edge to another team to take the pennant? Who would Philly possibly get in return from either club to bolster their team, or bolster their farm system when it’s they that are giving up the prospects? Just seems hard to think that it will be Philly of all teams that would help to bolster the Cubs already formidable rotation.
Again, unless another team stepped in, I have a hard time believing that a deal will go down with Philly in the equation.
By safebet
December 9, 2008 1:32 PM | Link to this
something is going on. havent heard from DOB lateky.
By DAP
December 9, 2008 1:32 PM | Link to this
cmac1919 say we do trade Francouer for Grienke (which I really hope doesn’t because wouldn’t that opening up another hole in the outfield?
no, the hole is there weather francouer stays or not. francouer is a hole, as of now. i hope he rebounds too, but going forward, i dont think we can assume we are a better team with him than without him.
im rooting for jeff big-time, but trading him right now would be understandable, if someone wants him.
By the Stranger
December 9, 2008 1:34 PM | Link to this
I think KJ is a sorry second baseman defensively. I think I know that for sure. But I’m also wearing khaki pants (sans loafers), and my latte is regrettably empty. What’s the difference between khakis or carhartts if a dude can’t catch a popup behind second base?
By McFann O –[zzz]
December 9, 2008 1:34 PM | Link to this
Anders I’d be happy to have Snell serve up some dingers to your boy
That would make me happy, too! Maybe the Mets should get Bergmann to go with him. That’d be a sweet rotation!
; )
Burrell has 29 homers against the Mets?? Hmm……Maybe he’d crush ‘em against his former team, too…
Steve-O Sorry I havn’t been on since my last post lst nite
That’s OK! I cann copy and paste, but the post just won’t show up. I’m gonna try it again sometime. Maybe my browser’s just down or something…
Ah, man…a healthy Smoltz and Burnett? Dang! That’d be something else!
By flange1
December 9, 2008 1:35 PM | Link to this
Interesting day so far!
Anders, would the Mets trade Heilman and Feliciano for 1 year of Ankiel?
I would think that is too much to give up…
Is there any K Wood talk in NY? a worse case scenario for me is that the Mets get Wood and K-Rod….
By David O'Brien
December 9, 2008 1:37 PM | Link to this
Dave It would be hard to do, but I would entertain trading Gonzo. The closer market seems to be a buyers market this yearWayne in Utah
Well, the Braves don’t view it as you do. Gonzo’s their closer for 2009. They’re not looking to open up yet another major void.
He’s not going to be traded for Ankiel. Cards aren’t expecting that big a return on Ankiel, either. If they are, I think they’ll realize quickly they’ll have to settle for less.
By Dim Bulb Braves Fan
December 9, 2008 1:38 PM | Link to this
Ryan Freel is available? Hansen and Escobar ought to be enough and if not, we could throw in Locke.
Gotta keep the Reds from trading in to the O’s for Ramon Hernandez.
With Freel, the Braves should be favorites in the NL East.
By bill
December 9, 2008 1:39 PM | Link to this
Joe M, the White Sox management was caught on tape stating that they weren’t “going to give Dye away for nothing. He’s **ing golden.”
Look for Atlanta to withdraw from consideration to avoid being implicated in the affair.
By brent a.
December 9, 2008 1:39 PM | Link to this
I’d have to believe that if the deal was Greinke for F-coeur straight up, then the Braves would’ve done it yesterday.
As far as Gonzo for anything … I think that Gonzo is probably pretty widely undervalued in the mainstream media.
He was gone by Memorial Day in 2007, and was not really at full strength after his return in 2008.
This is hopefully the year that we get a nasty Gonzalez for a full 162.
If we are out of the race at the trade deadline, then trade him, but not now. With Gonzo, we have potentially the best closer in the NL, in a division that now has Lidge, and potentially K-Rod.
Just because the Cubs fan at MLB traderumors doesn’t recognize the potential of Gonzo, doesn’t mean that we should ignore just how nasty that guy is.
By ncscoots
December 9, 2008 1:42 PM | Link to this
Its nice to finally be the ones with our foots in the door and not on the outside looking in [on trades and FA signings]. you know?
Personally, I’d prefer an offseason in which the Braves are not connected with a single, solitary rumor, with the reason being that they had no holes to fill.
I’d much prefer to be spending the offseason in languor, lolling about with obscenely apparent lassitude in my Polo, khakis, and Topsiders. And having Kelly and his wife over mornings for mimosas, of course, LOL.
“UZR? Well, the masses must have SOMETHING to do, darling, mustn’t they?” :-)
By ernesto
December 9, 2008 1:43 PM | Link to this
Frenchy for Greinke?
I would do that in a ventricular fibrillation.
Royals can’t be that stupid though…
By David O'Brien
December 9, 2008 1:45 PM | Link to this
While Greinke-for-Francoeur straight up seems highly unlikely to me, if you add a component to that trade it suddenly seems quite possible.
Could be a top Braves prospect and Francoeur for Greinke, but more likely, to me, is the possibility of the Royals doing the deal to get a guy they want (Francoeur) while shedding some payroll via Jose Guillen.
Guillen makes $12 mill each of the next two years. . Royals would love to shed some salary, and Guillen hasn’t performed nearly up to his contract.
But even in a bad year last season (.264 with a .300 OBP) he still had 20 homers, 42 doubles and 97 RBI. And in 2007 he hit .290 with a .353 OBP, 23 homers and 99 RBI.
During the 2003-05 seasons he had 87 homers and 266 RBI, while hitting .311, .294 and .283 in those seasons, with OBPs of .359, .352 and .338 OBPs.
Dude can hit.
As for Greinke, well, his stuff is oustanding, and he has all the tools to be an ace or at least a very good No. 2 starter.
He had the psychological problems a few years ago, but supposedly has had no problems since treated for that. He really could be a hell of an addition, and he’s not eligible for free agency until after the 2010 season, so he’d probably be a Brave for at least two seasons.
By Efrim
December 9, 2008 1:47 PM | Link to this
I can’t imagine the Braves would trade for an OF like Dye before knowing if they can sign Burnett. That piece that they trade for Dye can be used in a deal for a pitcher if we miss out on Burnett.
By PopUp Obsessor
December 9, 2008 1:50 PM | Link to this
December 09, 2013
“I tell you, the Braves would have won the division this past season had Kelly Johnson not dropped that pop-up over five years ago in that early June regular season game. Cursed this team forever like the Cubs and their goat.”
By GEO123
December 9, 2008 1:52 PM | Link to this
JR,
Duncan is a huge question mark. He had radical neck surgery. He appears to be healing well but you never know… I really only think that he goes in a very minor trade or as an addiitonal piece in a trade. The Cardinals are definitely going to trade an OF this off season. The questions are who (or how many) and when. Most think that it now will be Ankiel and it will probably be in the next couple of days…
By McFann O –[zzz]
December 9, 2008 1:52 PM | Link to this
Flange—
Heilman? Ah, no! The Mets have to keep him, too! Yeah…make him a starter with Snell and Bergmann!
They cann ditch Feliciano, though.
By winterville
December 9, 2008 1:54 PM | Link to this
Anders Have the Braves ever done anything right in your opinion? It seems like you are just here to criticize every move they make. If they stay in on Peavy you would say they are just doing whatever Towers wants and you would mock us for waiting so long for an answer. So now, we pull out of that to move on to other options and you decide that means we have no leverage. You are so bitter. Baseball brings so much enjoyment to me and most of the others on this blog and I feel like you just want to take the fun out of it. I am not one of those blind loyalty fans who thinks everything we do will turn to gold but I have been very pleased with the efforts from the front office this off season. We put our best foot forward on Peavy and we knew when to cut our losses. We are trying our best to sign Burnett. We got Vazquez to be a stabilizer. We are in on many fronts to try and land a decent OF bat. What would you have us do differently so far this off season? You can just be such a drain on this blog and I really don’t think you understand how much fun you take away from actual baseball and the joy it brings us.
By Bobby's Cox
December 9, 2008 1:59 PM | Link to this
Royals can’t be that stupid though
This is the few times i’ve read this.
I think it would be smart by the Royals.
For no other reason that if fans think it’s a dumb trade, maybe they won’t go through with it.
Getting Francouer would be a steal.
wink.
By Graham
December 9, 2008 2:00 PM | Link to this
ESPN and Fox Sports are both reporting that the Cubs are not even “remotely close” on a deal for Jake Peavy.
By a fan
December 9, 2008 2:03 PM | Link to this
Rosenthal is reporting that the Cards did ask for Gonzo in exchange for Ankiel. Braves turned it down immediately.
By Jake W.
December 9, 2008 2:04 PM | Link to this
Thats what i’m asking Anders. I haven’t heard to much about the Mets this offseason besides the K-Rod talk so I was hoping you as a mets fan could provide some knowledge on what all they’re doing.
And on the Peavy thing I didn’t ask you about whether braves fan thought it was a sure thing or not. I asked you to evaluate whether the proposed package they would be getting in a proposed three way trade with the Cubs and Phillies would be better than the package the Braves offered. The Braves didn’t give up on Peavy because they didn’t like him. They got tired of Towers changing his mind and had other needs to fill so they walked away as they didn’t have the time to wait around on Towers who believed that he could still demand Hanson who he was clearly not going to get.
By Erik
December 9, 2008 2:05 PM | Link to this
So DOB to clarify are you saying that a deal might be Frenchy and prospect for Guillen and Greinke?
Under those circumstances we have all of our voids filled and be well under our salary limit. Would you see the braves still pursuing Ankiel(cheap CF) for a Boyer, Stockman exchange?
That seems to be a dramatically upgraded pitching staff
Greinke, Smoltz, JJ, Vazquez, Campillo/Morton
and and EVEN BETTER outfield
Schaffer/Blanco/Diaz in left
Ankiel in Center (25 HR)
Guillen in right(20 HR)
assuming same production as last year that gives 45 homers between Center and right, almost double from the entire production of last year.
Plus the longest deals we would be on the book for are two years. Almost all of those players will net us draft compensation if they leave, allowing us to replenish the farm.
what do you think DOB?
By flange1
December 9, 2008 2:05 PM | Link to this
The Greinke- Gullien for Frenchy + prospect makes too much sense!
It seems to me that the Royals have accmlulated tons of corner OF and IF, the Braves prospect would need to be either Hernandez or an IF or a pitcher.
Just thinking it through, which prospect?
Maybe Morton and Frenchy for Greinke and Guillen?
I would rather JoJo, Boyer and Frenchy for Greinke and Guillen.
Then let Matt Diaz and B Jones platoon in the other OF slot.
Still have some $$$ to spend, do you still try to get AJ?
A rotation of AJ, Greinke, JJJ, Javy and Hanson….Wow that stinks…
By Viva La Frenchy and others...
December 9, 2008 2:07 PM | Link to this
Frenchy and a prospect for Greinke sounds graet to me. I know the dude can hit, has some emotional issues—but the $12 mil a year…does that put is in a hole on getting AJ as well? It would be pretty sweet to get AJ and Greinke cause at least with the Greinke deal (if it happens) we get an OF too. Still like a RP for Ankiel. I know he’s a one year Boras guy, but the guys got some heart, class and can hit too. Get somethjing for Frenchy now while we can. lastly, let’s definitely add a leadoff type guy - albeit Rf may be too pricy, but who knows, ….P I - - on Peavy - he had his chance, way to go FW for sticking to your guns.
By Efrim
December 9, 2008 2:10 PM | Link to this
I’m not too big a fan of Jose Guillen, but to get Greinke, and only give up Francoeur and say, Gorkys Hernandez, I’d think about it.
By Marty
December 9, 2008 2:12 PM | Link to this
I agree that Guillen might be a nice pickup, as long as he can keep his attitude in check. Both he and Greinke seem to be somewhat “damaged goods,” at least from what I’ve read over the years. That said, there’s some major talent there.
By KC
December 9, 2008 2:13 PM | Link to this
MLBtraderumors.com:
1:00pm: Joe McDonald of The Providence Journal says the Red Sox had “significant dialogue” with Burnett and he appears to be Boston’s main free agent pitching target.
By Marty
December 9, 2008 2:14 PM | Link to this
Here’s a question for anyone who wants to field it. The Cubs supposedly are shopping Jason Marquis with a vengeance. My question: Why in the heck would anyone want to pick up Marquis?
By Efrim
December 9, 2008 2:20 PM | Link to this
DOB
Do you think Greinke is a back up plan to Burnett? Or are the Braves interested even if we sign Burnett.
By nolie
December 9, 2008 2:21 PM | Link to this
That’s OK! I cann copy and paste, but the post just won’t show up. I’m gonna try it again sometime. Maybe my browser’s just down or something McFann
I’ve been having the same problem today trying to copy/paste an article from Hardball Times about Vazquez. It just won’t show up. First time ever.
By rhays
December 9, 2008 2:21 PM | Link to this
it appears braves are essentially out of the race for burnett and peavy. why not take 150 mil. over 5 yr. and throw it at sabathia and see what happens. dont need to come home this winter empty handed.
By rhays
December 9, 2008 2:21 PM | Link to this
it appears braves are essentially out of the race for burnett and peavy. why not take 150 mil. over 5 yr. and throw it at sabathia and see what happens. dont need to come home this winter empty handed.
By David O'Brien
December 9, 2008 2:23 PM | Link to this
Flange1, I’m not saying it would take Frenchy AND a top prospect if Guillen’s involved. With Guillen involved, Braves would be taking on a big salary Royals need to shed for K.C. to make other moves.
I don’t know that Braves would have to give up anything more than Francoeur and perhaps a mid-level prospect to get that deal done.
I know Royals will ask for plenty more, though, including probably Escobar and a top prospect. But I don’t think Braves would open up another hole (SS) that would require a big salary to fill along with taking on Guillen’s $12 mill salary. Then you’re starting to look at burning up most of your available funds with Vazquez and his $11.5 mill already added, Burnett offer out there, and Smoltz, etc. If they got Greinke, don’t know if they could also afford A.J., but who knows?
They’d be doing Royals a favor, in effect, taking on a salary Royals can’t afford (Guillen), but that Braves might be able to carry considering they’d be getting a very talented starting pitcher with great stuff who’s two years from free agency.
When I said Francoeur and a top prospect, I was talking about if it was just for Greinke. I said I thought no way Royals give up Greinke for Francoeur alone, that they’d have to get a prospect along with Frenchy.
But that changes, I think, if Guillen and his big salary are involved. At least from Braves’ view, I think it would. It’d be a salary dump by the Royals, but the dump (Guillen) would be a player who’d be quite an upgrade for a Braves outfield that got a hideous total of 27 homers from all its outfielders combined last season, starters and backups.
By Chop Chop
December 9, 2008 2:25 PM | Link to this
ESPN.com news services:
Ron Santo, who fell nine votes short of election by the Veterans Committee to the Baseball Hall of Fame, said the process needs to change after the committee failed to elect a new member for the fourth straight time.
Imaginary quote:
Santo: “What the hell’s going on? Blagojevich said he had this thing wrapped up! They gotta change the system!”
By U-BE-BAD
December 9, 2008 2:25 PM | Link to this
I JUST HOPE THE BRAVES CAN GET AJ,AND ADD A GOOD BAT. THATS WHAT I WONT FOR X-MAS
By BravesFanInRockies
December 9, 2008 2:26 PM | Link to this
Looks like the Indians are about to sign Kerry Wood.
As for K-Rod, I saw him pitch fairly often (not in person, on TV, of course). And he has done it with mirrors, to some extent, the past year or so. Because his fastball doesn’t reach the upper 90s any more, his change doesn’t offer as much of a contrast. And his slider is all over the place; it’s not the out pitch it used to be.
Hitters seem to not be as distracted by that exaggerated pitching motion. So yeah, you can’t use him for more than an inning because after you’ve seen his entire repertoire you can figure him out.
He might be lights-out in the NL the first time he faces hitters. Maybe even the second. But long-term? He’ll be a huge disappointment for Mets fans.
Not that there’s anything wrong with that.
By TommyP
December 9, 2008 2:33 PM | Link to this
Again, if Jose Guillen comes to Atlanta, it will be a clear indication that the Wren Era is going to be drastically different than the Schuerholz Era. And Cox will probably manage his last year.
I think a lot of people are not understanding what a medical marvel Gonzo was last year. NOBODY comes back that quickly from TJ surgery and is productive like that.
This year will be Gonzo’s bounce back season. HUGE season upcoming.
By rammerjammer
December 9, 2008 2:35 PM | Link to this
KC,
Thanks for the AJ update. Fascinating how these things play out. Could be that our best hope for a rotation upgrade is through the trade route.
Which begs the question…would KC be interested in a Peavy-esque package of prospects for Greinke?
I would think KC would see him as untouchable, but if he’s available we should be talking with them.
By My Entire Team Sucks
December 9, 2008 2:35 PM | Link to this
if such a trade happened - i would hope the braves went for power hitting LF over signing Burnett - Burnett is a huge risk and a trade for Greinke and Guillen would not solve the power in the outfield only upgrade it a little bit if at all. Greinke JJ vazquez smoltz glavin/morton/hansen is a good rotation.
By flange1
December 9, 2008 2:35 PM | Link to this
DOB,
WOW! Thanks for the response.
If we could trade Frenchy for Greinke and Guillen, I would do it in a heartbeat.
Like yesterday.
Heck, I would even throw in a prospect….
By DAP
December 9, 2008 2:36 PM | Link to this
haha, DOB…are you messing with us? a grenkie, guillen deal would be great…guillen ought to produce as well has frenchy has in his career, plus we get our top of the order pitcher.
the only bad thing (maybe) would be in two years, we will three pitchers going into free agency. (hudson, grenkie, vazquez) maybe more if smoltz will be doing 1 year deals from now on.
i know weve got young’uns coming up, but thats alot of guys to lose at once. its good to taper that kinda thing.
but, youve got to worry about right now, right now. let the dead bury their dead.
By Efrim
December 9, 2008 2:37 PM | Link to this
Steve Phillips from ESPN.com:
There’s nothing to a Jeff Francoeur-for-Zack Greinke swap between the Braves and Royals.
By Blue Magic
December 9, 2008 2:39 PM | Link to this
Dave
What’s the market for Griffey? Rather sign him for a 1-yr deal if he’d come to ATL than trade for Ankeil. We won’t resign either, so wouldn’t it make more sense to go that route? Or do you see him going back to Seattle?
By ABravesFan
December 9, 2008 2:42 PM | Link to this
Braves sign AJ Burnett for $15 M Braves trade for Grienke (cheap) and Guillen ($12 M) Braves trade for Ankiel (cheap)
OF: CF - Ankiel RF - Guillen/Schaefer/Diaz LF - Guillen/Schaefer/Diaz
Starting rotation: 1 - AJ Burnett 2.- Greinke 3. -JJ 4. - Vazquez 5. - Morton/Jo Jo/Hanson
Adding AJ for $15 M, Vazquez for $11.5 M, Guillen for $12 M, and Ankiel and Greinke for cheap would be a total salary increase of a little more than $40 million.
By ecpglp
December 9, 2008 2:42 PM | Link to this
DOB, that doesn’t sound right. Francoeur + a prospect would get Greinke, but Francoeur along would get Greinke AND Guillen??? That’s tantamount to saying that the Royals would GIVE Guillen to the Braves right now, forget Greinke and Francoeur. I realize KC might be looking to dump his salary, but I don’t think they are looking to get literally nothing for him.
By bobby
December 9, 2008 2:43 PM | Link to this
I DONT SEE MADDUX BEING RETIRED FOR LONG SOMEONE WILL BE KNOCKING AT HIS DOOR BEGGING HIM TO COME BACK FOR ANOTHER YEAR AND I SEE THE BRAVES DOING IT IF GLAVINE OR SMOLTZ GO DOWN. I WANT TO SEE ADAM DUNN IN A BRAVES UNIFORM AND NOONE ELSE UNLESS ITS WELL NO I WANNA SEE ADAM DUNN IN A BRAVES UNIFORM.
By David O'Brien
December 9, 2008 2:43 PM | Link to this
Yes, I know Royals will be asking for a lot more than Francoeur alone for those two, just don’t know that Braves will give it.
Maybe Francoeur and a prospect or two, but can’t see them giving up Escobar, too, and opening up another hole that’ll probably require a big salary to fill (shortstop) while also taking on Guillen’s $12 mill salary.
By McFann O –[zzz]
December 9, 2008 2:43 PM | Link to this
Nolie—
Really? Huh…this is weird. Everyone else cann do links.
Very strange…First time ever for me, too. I used to just not know how to link. Then I figured it out—and loved it—but now…
What browser do you use? FireFox, Safari, Internet Explorer? ‘Cause I’ve tried Safari and FireFox, and neither work anymore. (I don’t care for FireFox, anyway.)
By bobby
December 9, 2008 2:43 PM | Link to this
I DONT SEE MADDUX BEING RETIRED FOR LONG SOMEONE WILL BE KNOCKING AT HIS DOOR BEGGING HIM TO COME BACK FOR ANOTHER YEAR AND I SEE THE BRAVES DOING IT IF GLAVINE OR SMOLTZ GO DOWN. I WANT TO SEE ADAM DUNN IN A BRAVES UNIFORM AND NOONE ELSE UNLESS ITS WELL NO I WANNA SEE ADAM DUNN IN A BRAVES UNIFORM.
By MiamiBrave
December 9, 2008 2:45 PM | Link to this
Most of you will see this soon on mlbtr.com but…
Roman Modrowski of the Chicago Sun-Times says Peavy sang “Go Cubs, Go” at a Vegas bar last night. Good times.
Peavy can go to Chicago, I personally don’t want the dude anymore, and I know his talent, but that’s why the dude was never coming to Atlanta, he never wanted to, might as well shove that list…(you get the picture)
If he doesn’t want to pitch here that’s fine (I say here, and I live in Miami, but you get my drift)Hope Peavy gets that ring in Chicago, where they haven’t won in over 100 years, sounds good…
Full speed ahead on the Burnett/Greinke front where it will either cost draft picks or Francoeur for the other, All for that Guillen/Greinke, though I do like Frenchy…
Hoping for good stuff this week. Good Luck FW.
By BravesFanInOR
December 9, 2008 2:46 PM | Link to this
DOB:
Tim Dierkes of MLBTradeRumors.com included the following comment at the end of his post on the Royals/Francoeur stuff:
“I’d be surprised to see this happen without the Braves adding significant pitching to their offer for Greinke. But in general I am skeptical that anything like this is close, even given the Burnett contingency. We probably would’ve heard some rumbling from Dave O’Brien, Mark Bowman, Bob Dutton, or Dick Kaegel.”
Then a certain “Braves Insider,” posted this when the Dierkes post was reposted as a thread on his forum:
“What the hell do I have to do? Hit some of you in the head? How long have we talked about Greinke on the talk show, in the chat, and I even wrote an article about it. I don’t know what else I could have done to let you know about this.
But go ahead and wait for Dave O’Brien to tell you. Maybe he’ll have the scoop.”
I won’t mention the name of the “Braves Insider” or the name of the forum.
But it appears he has it out for you…maybe a little blog/forum, penis envy.
By Efrim
December 9, 2008 2:47 PM | Link to this
Mark Bowman has a new article up:
The Braves remain hopeful that they could eventually win the bidding for A.J. Burnett. But they certainly aren’t encouraged by reports that have indicated the Dodgers are making a serious push to land CC Sabathia, who is believed to share a mutual interest.
Whether or not they signed Sabathia, the Yankees were going to make a push to also sign Burnett. If they lose out in the bidding for Sabathia, they would obviously have an even greater abundance of available funds that could be used to provide Burnett with an offer that the Braves wouldn’t be willing to match.
Currently the Braves are sitting back and evaluating the developments surrounding Burnett. Braves GM Frank Wren is expected to meet with Burnett’s agent, Darek Braunecker, later this week. But there hasn’t been any indication that the two parties will meet on Tuesday.
As for the Yankees, they are expected to meet with the Braunecker on Tuesday.
I really do wonder where the Braves would go if Burnett didn’t sign with them. I’m sure they have it figured out though.
By Mark
December 9, 2008 2:52 PM | Link to this
DOB,
Anymore meetings with Wren today/tonight? When can we expect some updates on potential trades and signings?
By A FAN
December 9, 2008 2:52 PM | Link to this
why wont frank just go talk to towers already. our deal is and has always been the best option lets get it done. burnett might have “ace” stuff but his best year being last year he was second fiddle to doc holliday!!! plus look at the injury factor. guy misses time alot and it would be a bigger commitment . if peavy is hurt or bad ( dont see that happening) were out after 3 years. if burnett is injured which he has a history most likely we have another hampton for 5 years. if escobar is gone lets get an ace not a good outfielder an ACE. and please dont trade frenchy yet. it would kill us to see him bounce back and hit .280 and 30 bombs. we cant trade one good year for one bad one with geinke
By MGL
December 9, 2008 2:53 PM | Link to this
Bobby, There is a “CapsLock” on the left side of your keyboard. Press once before you type and your post won’t come out in that terribly annoying all caps format.
By jimmy
December 9, 2008 2:55 PM | Link to this
dob, it seems like the Braves are slipping out of contention for Burnett with the Red Sox and Yankees after him. What will Frank Wren have to say to the fans if Vasquez is the opening day starter?
By Thundersticks
December 9, 2008 2:58 PM | Link to this
I’d go ahead and put a call in to Sheets’ agent.
By Lew
December 9, 2008 3:00 PM | Link to this
Bobby-Screaming it and posting it twice does not indicate you actually have a clue.
By BravesFanInRockies
December 9, 2008 3:00 PM | Link to this
Ryan Freel for Ramon Hernandez? Say it ain’t so, denizens! With Freel off the market, what will we argue about?
By Calvin
December 9, 2008 3:02 PM | Link to this
Bobby,
Your capslock is on.
By brian
December 9, 2008 3:02 PM | Link to this
what kind of prospects are the Royals expecting to get for Guillen/Greinke?
Along with Francoeur if it is Brandon Jones and JoJo or Parr then that is fine. If it is one of the big 2 then NO WAY
By Mark
December 9, 2008 3:03 PM | Link to this
2:56 p.m. — Burnett’s agents, Braves to meet The agents for free-agent right-hander A.J. Burnett will meet again with the Braves on Tuesday.
Burnett’s representatives met with the Yankees, Red Sox and Orioles on Monday, and the Braves have made him an offer believed to be $60 million over four years with an option for a fifth.
The Yankees are in active discussions with free agents CC Sabathia and Ben Sheets as well as Burnett, and remain willing to sign both Sabathia and Burnett, sources say.
Sheets, who also met with the Rangers on Monday, would be a more realistic alternative if the Yankees struck out on one of the elite starters.
By Lew
December 9, 2008 3:05 PM | Link to this
A Fan-If we were to sign Peavy, he would be locked in for four years. If, as is expected, he were to ask for a guarantee of his fifth year, he would be locked up (injuries and all) for the same five years Burnett would.
By flange1
December 9, 2008 3:05 PM | Link to this
I think the Peavy to ATL deal is done.
Toast.
Not happening.
Jake wants to go to Chitown. Wish him luck!
Time for the Braves to move on.
I like the Greinke thoughts as much or more than any other starter not named Halliday.
It would not bother me to trade Frenchy + talent for Guillen and Greinke.
I would like to keep Morton and the big prospects, but I could see Frenchy, G. Hernandez, Boyer, Medlin/Marek/Redmond. I could live with that.
By 22oz
December 9, 2008 3:05 PM | Link to this
There’s nothing quite as entertaining as using Caps Lock and then spelling a very basic word wrong. Its right there with the Caps Lock ridiculously long run-on sentence.
By Lew
December 9, 2008 3:07 PM | Link to this
Jimmy-“That’s the best we could do with the current market availability”?
By Jim H.
December 9, 2008 3:09 PM | Link to this
The funny thing is he didn’t capitalize the first letter of his own name.
By My Entire Team Sucks
December 9, 2008 3:09 PM | Link to this
DOB
are you just talking about a “Rumor” when you are talking about what it might take or did you actualy hear that the braves are in talks with the royals?
By flange1
December 9, 2008 3:11 PM | Link to this
From Tom Krasovic of the San Diego Union-Tribune in his December 9,2008 Day 2 blog
“The Braves let a neutral source know that, in retrospect, they are happy the Padres didn’t agree to one of their offers for Peavy. Maybe that’s spin, but according to Atlanta, they would have given up too much pitching as part of that offer. The thing to bear in mind, though, is that Peavy’s consent is needed for a trade to Atlanta. We’ve reported that for some five weeks, it hasn’t appeared Peavy was enthused about going to the Braves.”
VERY INTERESTING!!!
By Braveheart
December 9, 2008 3:11 PM | Link to this
it seems like the Braves are slipping out of contention for Burnett with the Red Sox and Yankees after him
Did you think no one else would want him? Did you think that he would not want to hear from others? Did you just marry the first girl who said hello to you? Did you really think he wouldn’t wait to see what goes down with CC? Do you really think the Red Sox are interested? Or do you believe that the Red Sox are just doing all the teasing they can to make the Yankees give too much money?
By Nocturnal Owl
December 9, 2008 3:13 PM | Link to this
Roman Modrowski of the Chicago Sun-Times says Peavy sang “Go Cubs, Go” at a Vegas bar last night. Good times
VORP PEAVY, HIS CLOWN AGENT, AND TOWERS.
Peavy played with US for almost two months. He never wanted to be here. I love to Boo him.
Yunel for an OF?
By DAP
December 9, 2008 3:18 PM | Link to this
I think the Peavy to ATL deal is done.Toast.Not happening.Time for the Braves to move on.
the braves HAVE moved on. they moved on a month ago. its us who needs to move on, if its not gonna happen.
By Dim Bulb Braves Fan
December 9, 2008 3:20 PM | Link to this
BFIR That’s what I’m sayin’. Perhaps the O’s will flip Freel as part of a Peavy three way deal. The Braves could get Freel and give up Esco, Hanson and Jurrjens. If we could just get Freel and then go hard after Baldelli and Crawford, I could sleep at night.
By Ed Glennon
December 9, 2008 3:20 PM | Link to this
Rule #1 Never trade for a Scott Boras client. Rule #2 Keep young pitchers, bring them up and let them pitch Remember Smoltz, Glavine and Avery. Rule #3 Give young talent extensions: Escobar Rule #4 Trade unhappy people Francour
By Marty
December 9, 2008 3:23 PM | Link to this
2:56 p.m. — Burnett’s agents, Braves to meet
The agents for free-agent right-hander A.J. Burnett will meet again with the Braves on Tuesday.
-Ken Rosenthal
Hopefully, that’s to finalize contract details.
By Bobby's Cox
December 9, 2008 3:23 PM | Link to this
the royals were pretty happy with what mike aviles provided them last year, so i doubt they’d want escobar.
maybe they’d want johnson for 2nd base as they seemingly have a hole there.
on their mlb.com website, they say the royals main need this offseason is relief pitching.
so maybe the deal could be bennett or boyer + johnson + francouer, for greinke and guillen.
the braves could replace one of those pieces or just add in a starter like jojo or morton, however, that trade w/o the starters would free up cash for KC to sign a garland or perez, etc…
the braves could even add soriano in the deal. KC could afford him with Guillen off the books and still have salary space to sign a garland or perez.
anyhow….it seems like there’s a lot to work with in a KC deal.
By Bluestreak
December 9, 2008 3:26 PM | Link to this
Peavy appears to be a jerk redneck from Alabama in all this. And I hope the Cubs have a huge payroll and still choke out of the first round.
I hope today’s meeting with Burnett is to blow him out of the water and lock the door until he signs on the dotted line.
I’d love to see a 3 or 4 for 2 swap with KC to get Guillen and Greinke, as long as Frenchy was the only ML player and the best minor leaguer would be either Morton or Reyes.
Burnett Greinke JJ JV and Smoltzie (as a 5th, my gosh)…that is a killer rotation. And all our prospects get to hone their craft in the minors and get here when the seasoning is done.
And then 2010: Burnett Greinke Hudson JJ JV. WOW. No cakewalks here…
DOB, if the Bravos sign AJ or trade for Greinke, do you see them doing the other? Or if they do one, does that end the pursuit of the other?
By Bobby's Cox
December 9, 2008 3:27 PM | Link to this
Props to whoever started using VORP as to substitute the profane version of the french adjective
that was VORPing brilliant.
By Bluestreak
December 9, 2008 3:28 PM | Link to this
the braves HAVE moved on. they moved on a month ago. its us who needs to move on, if its not gonna happen.
Well said DAP, well said.
By Wayne in Utah
December 9, 2008 3:32 PM | Link to this
OK Dave, so you didn’t like my earlier trades and signings (not that it really matters to the Braves what either of us thinks). I will admit that you are a bit more in-tuned with what the Braves are doing than I am (like calling the Grand Canyon a gully)
Next take: Offer Boyer for Ankiel.
Send Frenchy, Parr or Redmond, JoJo, and Brandon Jones to KC for Guillen and Greinke.
Sign John Smoltz, and let him do whatever the heck he wants to do.
Wait about 6-7 weeks, and if there is still one more starter available cheap (wall flower), then make him a cheap offer
Then, call it good.
We still have Escobar, Kelly, and two outfielders who should both hit 20+ dingers. You hope Schafer makes Blanco and Anderson expendable. Pray that Smoltz, Moylan, Soriano and Gonzo will all be healthy.
We still might not make it too far into October, but at least we might stay competitive into September.
By Efrim
December 9, 2008 3:35 PM | Link to this
2:56 p.m. — Burnett’s agents, Braves to meet
The agents for free-agent right-hander A.J. Burnett will meet again with the Braves on Tuesday.
-Ken Rosenthal
Hopefully, that’s to finalize contract details.
So do I Marty, so do I.
If he met with the Yankees, Red Sox and Orioles yesterday, maybe Burnett’s agent goes back to Wren and asks for that fifth year guaranteed. If so maybe there is a deal.
By Wayne in Utah
December 9, 2008 3:36 PM | Link to this
Alright guys, I sense there are some that are dissin’ my man Ryan Freel on the “bog” today.
You know I gotta man-crush on him, and you continue to tease me like that…..
By ppaddy123
December 9, 2008 3:36 PM | Link to this
By DAP December 9, 2008 3:18 PM I think the Peavy to ATL deal is done.Toast. Not happening.Time for the Braves to move on. the braves HAVE moved on. they moved on a month ago. its us who needs to move on, if its not gonna happen.
I think you’re absolutely right! Kevin Towers is a MORON. He will end up taking less, or nothing at all for Peavy. he had a better offer from the Braves. Now he is stuck to do a deal with the Cubs. Good luck gettin’ that done, KT. YOU JACKASS!
By BravesFanInRockies
December 9, 2008 3:38 PM | Link to this
Dim Bulb,
Two keepers (at least) in one day. Nice job!
By Cubbies over Braves
December 9, 2008 3:39 PM | Link to this
It was hinted serveral times Peavy wanted to go to a team that is in contention next season. This is probably about as accurate as any other gossip on the trade. If anyone watched MLB this past season, I think the Cubs won a divsion and the Braves finished 19 games under 500. Surprised, I hardly think not.
By Mr. Snrub
December 9, 2008 3:42 PM | Link to this
Surprised, I hardly think not.
“Those words… I do not think they mean what you think they mean.”
By ppaddy123
December 9, 2008 3:44 PM | Link to this
Concerning the talks about Burnett, if Wren thinks there is a deal to be done and get done, it will GET DONE. However, I think this market and this group of free agents is waiting for “that one BIG GUY” to sign. And I don’t think KROD going to the Mets is the BIG deal someone like Burnett and his agent are waiting for.
By BravesFanInRockies
December 9, 2008 3:46 PM | Link to this
Bluestreak, others,
I don’t think you’re reading carefully. DOB thinks (and PopeVanIII and I suggested) that the Royals might be willing to essentially trade Greinke for Francouer straight-up if the Braves also took Guillen and his $12 million salary.
In that scenario, the Braves might have to throw in one other prospect. But we’re not talking a Peavy-like deal for Greinke.
The Royals would be giving up a very promising young pitcher but getting rid of a big contract (for them) and getting a player Dayton has always liked in Francouer. That’s it.
May be that KC expects a horrible year or two, revenue-wise, and simply has to get real cheap real fast.
By GEO123
December 9, 2008 3:49 PM | Link to this
Come on guys. Francoeur for Grienke? He’s an ace. You don’t get an ace without giving up alot and right now that’s not Francoeur. Including a fringe pitcher isn’t going to get it done either. The Royals don’t need to dump payroll so they aren’t going to give him away if you take on salary (Guillen).
By BravesFanInRockies
December 9, 2008 3:51 PM | Link to this
Also, DOB, have you heard any rumblings about Daniel Cabrera? If the O’s don’t offer him a contract, he’ll become a FA. Might the Braves offer something for him before the non-tender deadline Friday?
By Graham
December 9, 2008 3:54 PM | Link to this
Mr. Snrub
Classic! Absolutely classic!!!
By flange1
December 9, 2008 3:57 PM | Link to this
Wayne,
Did you see Ryan Freel to Baltimore?
He is gone……..
The NL will not be the same without him…..
By rammerjammer
December 9, 2008 3:58 PM | Link to this
The hating on Peavy is misplaced.
Nothing wrong with wanting to play for a winning team, but if all else fails, it’s ok to move close to home and hope for success.
Who among us prefers to work for a losing outfit? If we get the chance, we leave for something better.
Sorry to break the news to some of you, but Chicago won their division and we lost 90 games.
By Random
December 9, 2008 3:58 PM | Link to this
TexasBrave, N8, RC, Question, et al —
Select “Chipper Jones part 2” from this 790’s Instant Replay Piodcasts web page.
A transcription of what immediately preceded Braveheart’s 7:34 PM quote, in a discussion about Chipper’s leadership role on the team in regard to Escobar’s on-field “outbursts” (as mentioned earlier by DOB):
790: “What’s your role in all that?”
Chipper: “Well, in Yunel’s instance, it’s up to me to, uh, grab Eddie Perez — who I’ve played with since 1992 in Double-A — pull the kid aside and say ‘Look, there’s a professional way to act, and there’s the way you acted tonight, you know, and that can’t happen.’ ‘Cause there’s no reason, etc,” for a guy with the ability of Yunel Escobar, what he’s done at this point early in his career, to be on the trading block.
Later on Chipper says “Yunel is going to learn — he’s gonna get it. He’s going to settle down and he’s gonna, you know, BE that charismatic shortstop, you know, withIN the realm of the way the Braves play the game of baseball. And he’s going to be a team leader on this team for years to come … I hope.”
By Tomas
December 9, 2008 4:02 PM | Link to this
Encouraging news today. Zack Greinke, Jermaine Dye, Aj Burnett.
I think the Braves shouldn’t trade Frenchy unless the Royals absolutely want him. But they have like 5 capable outfielders(David De jesus, Coco Crisp, Jose Guillen, Mark Teahen, Joey Gathright), and the braves on the other hand have some issues in the outfield.
They want a SS to move Mike Aviles to 2B. I think trading Yunel Escobar, Blaine Boyer and Jo-jo Reyes for Zack Greinke is a great idea. Then sign Rafael Furcal.
I think this is a great backup plan if they fail to sign Aj.
I also heard the Braves had interest in Joe Mather, who certainly was unstoppable against the Braves.
Another good back up plan could be to trade for Cubs Carlos Zambrano if they land Peavy. They also need a SS.
By The Oracle
December 9, 2008 4:03 PM | Link to this
KJ and Jeffy and PTBNL to KC for Grienke and Guillen. Swing low level trade for Ankiel.Go Sign AJ for 4 yr 17 million. Prado to 2b. Guillen to OF. Ankiel in OF. We now have a .500 team. Gonzo is using smoke and mirrors. Trade him for prospects. When mid season comes and we are out of it, trade Chipper for BIG prospects. Seriously, we have to stick to rebuilding if we want a team that can challenge in two years. Must take two steps back to move 5 forward.
By kc08
December 9, 2008 4:03 PM | Link to this
Sources are now saying that Francouer and Escobar will be traded for Grienke and Guillen
By Nocturnal Owl
December 9, 2008 4:06 PM | Link to this
the word Peavy should be bleeped out of the blog. I feel it for my mann Wren. He was getting used since he did offer the best deal. I love how he put Atlanta on a short list but the royal Peavy truly had one or two teams. Now were sorta forced to trade unhappy yunel. great.
Mann crush on Freel? What is so great about him Wayne and McFann? Not sure he fits what were looking for….
By McFann O –[zzz]
December 9, 2008 4:08 PM | Link to this
Tomas Another good back up plan could be to trade for Cubs Carlos Zambrano if they land Peavy.
No! Not Zambrano! He punches his catchers!!
By TennesseePaul
December 9, 2008 4:11 PM | Link to this
Peavy hasn’t said a word during any of this. How could one conclude that he is the issue? It’s all speculation. The only thing that has been factually documented is Kevin Towers dumb@ss flip flopping all over the place attempting to explain why it is he will be going to Spring Training with Peavy and no short stop when he could have been headed to Spring Training with Escobar, A reliever, a starting pitcher and a young high profile center fielder.
The order of events, Braves had a deal, Towers said the Braves had the best offer out there, Towers said the Peavy train has left the station. Towers asked for more in the deal. Braves changed it up a bit. Towers spoke more about Atlanta being the only good option. Towers asks for more in the deal. Braves change it up a bit. Towers talks about the Braves being the only deal in town except maybe the Yankees. Axelrod says Peavy will not go to Yankees. Braves say they will not be including more in the trade. Towers asks for more in the trade. Wren calls of talks. Towers says Peavy might not have approved a trade anyway.
By The Future
December 9, 2008 4:13 PM | Link to this
Burnett signs with Yankees Braves trade top prospects for Greinke As usual, the Braves trade large prospect packages for players
By McFann O –[zzz]
December 9, 2008 4:14 PM | Link to this
The “Official Site” of the Royals has an article up about the Francoeur for Greinke thing.
“There’s nothing to the Greinke-Francoeur story,” [Royals general manager Dayton Moore] said with a smile, then went on his way.
I’d link up the article, but, you know…
By brian
December 9, 2008 4:15 PM | Link to this
do you think that Burnett will drag this out much longer or do you think he will go to the Braves and say guarantee my 5th year at $15-16 million per year and I’ll sign?
I know he wants a 5th year guaranteed but a 4 year $60-64 million deal with an option that vests with innings pitched over the last 2 years sounds reasonable to me. I would sweeten it by making the 5th year a $20 million year option. Some protection for the Braves if he gets hurt and reward for Burnett if he does not
By Tomas
December 9, 2008 4:15 PM | Link to this
rumor has been shot down.
By BravesFanInRockies
December 9, 2008 4:15 PM | Link to this
Oh well — Frenchy can buy rather than rent for awhile longer: Moore shot down the rumored trade.
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081209&contentid=3708380&vkey=newskc&fext=.jsp&cid=kc&partnerId=rsskc
By McFann O –[zzz]
December 9, 2008 4:17 PM | Link to this
N Owl What is so great about him Wayne and McFann?
Me? Uh…I don’t know…all I know is he gets concussions all the time……or is that some other guy?
By Efrim
December 9, 2008 4:21 PM | Link to this
Ken Rosenthal:
4:05 p.m. — Interest in Burnett intensifies
Could A.J. Burnett’s price rise to $100 million over five years?
It’s not out of the question if the Yankees lose out on CC Sabathia. At that point, Burnett’s leverage with the Yankees would be immense.
Failing to sign Burnett would leave the Yankees with free-agent options such as Derek Lowe, Ben Sheets and Randy Wolf
Burnett had meetings scheduled Tuesday with the Braves and Yankees, but other teams remain in the mix.
Burnett’s representatives met with the Yankees, Braves, Red Sox and Orioles on Monday, and Atlanta has made him an offer believed to be $60 million over four years with an option for a fifth.
The Yankees are in active discussions with Sabathia and Sheets as well as Burnett, and remain willing to sign both Sabathia and Burnett, sources say.
Sheets, who also met with the Rangers on Monday, would be a more realistic alternative if the Yankees struck out on one of the elite starters.
Yea, well, I can’t imagine the Yanks going that high. But if they lose out on Sabathia, anything is possible.
By Tomas
December 9, 2008 4:23 PM | Link to this
McFann, I don’t think you have to worry about McCann there. First off McCann would beat him to the ground, and second he is not an a*****. Remember Zambrano punched Michael Barret, and Michael Barret has a history maybe he deserved it. Remember his fight with A.J. Pierzynski. But Zambrano is crazy there is no doubt about that. He is like Hugo Chavez pitching. I remember this year he threatened Jose Reyes not to steal home.
By Don't Trade Franceour, Sheesh
December 9, 2008 4:25 PM | Link to this
They Royals would probably only trade Greinke to us is if we apologized nicely, and took Kyle Davies back…
By LKS
December 9, 2008 4:25 PM | Link to this
Escobar and his little hot headed moments are a BIG reason that I started liking and watching baseball. Im Kind of a new baseball fan. I have always loved football more until this year and Esco was the player that changed my mind. I always thought baseball was the most BORING game on the planet until this year. I LOVE that Escobar Actually shows some heart and feeling unlike the other robotic players I see that always say and do the right thing. IMHO players like Escobar are a breath of fresh air to the baseball world and will bring new found fans like myself. Baseball IS boring if you show NO emotion and I have not witnessed one game where Esco went over the line with his.
By ppaddy123
December 9, 2008 4:26 PM | Link to this
if the Braves COULD make a deal with the Royals, filling a pitching and outfield problem with Francouer, well, that would be great. I would still try to sign Brad Penny or Ben Sheets at a deep discount. The Braves were built on pitching and need to return to their pitching roots.
By Joe M.
December 9, 2008 4:27 PM | Link to this
Sigh. Francoeur for Grienke….if it sounds too good to be true; it is.
By AdirondackDave
December 9, 2008 4:27 PM | Link to this
Frency AND Escobar for Greinke and Guillen? This may happen with KC sweetening the deal although I’d had to see Yunel go. If he does, I imagine Tony Pena, Jr. will be headed back to Atlanta. Braves would probably need a couple prospects to swallow losing both Frenchy and Escobar AND eating all of Guillen’s hefty salary.
By Wayne in Utah
December 9, 2008 4:27 PM | Link to this
N Owl Hey, in past seasons, I have thought Freel would be a good piece for the Braves.
Now, There is not such a need now for him on the team, but what’s not to like about a guy who would run through a brick wall for a flyball!
Inside joke….you had to be here a couple years ago.
By ppaddy123
December 9, 2008 4:28 PM | Link to this
From listening to Wren’s comments; I think if the Burnett deal doesn’t get done this week……it won’t get done. The Braves will move on.
By James Munson
December 9, 2008 4:28 PM | Link to this
DOB, two things…1)Dont you think its possible the Cards are askin for Yunel to swap him to the Padres for Peavy?? Makes sense seeing as how they have Greene now and know the Padres really like Escobar…On another note, I happen to remember a game a few years ago when Guillen, playing for the Nats, came in high on Chipper at third and they “exchanged” a few words….The Braves are all about character, and I dont think they will want his attitude AND salary…
By Patrick
December 9, 2008 4:31 PM | Link to this
Man, DOB has really not been here for us all so far these meetings….
By Nocturnal Owl
December 9, 2008 4:33 PM | Link to this
Unconfirmed rumor from Andrew Baggarly: Sabathia declined the Yankees’ offer hmm this will continue and Brian I think this could delay A.J. signing. With the average offer, A.J. is receiving more offers and It might take more and Yankees will step it up.
If for some reason CC takes less and goes west say bye bye to A.J.
McFann Yikes remember that Barrett beating as well. Nice comeback remark on Z but he does have skills.)). Oh I thought you liked Freel, Never mind.
By Tomas
December 9, 2008 4:34 PM | Link to this
3:24pm: Unconfirmed rumor from Andrew Baggarly: Sabathia declined the Yankees’ offer. He still printed it though. The Giants are expected to meet with Sabathia this weekend; they’d need to get creative to sign him.
OH NO! This is bad news for the Braves, now AJ’s price could be 5yrs 100 million. I hope this isn’t true.
By PTBNL
December 9, 2008 4:34 PM | Link to this
By the end of last season I was ready to trash Boyer as it seems that many of you would do even still. However, just for something to think about, he has been working out with Smoltz this offseason. It may be worth thinking about keeping him. Remember what kind of year Andruw had after working out with Smoltz in the offseason? Smoltz has gone on record as a cheerleader of sorts for Boyer. He may want to make his predictions come true this season. I mean… some vested interest in doing so.
I am not saying that it is a given…. but personally, I am less inclined to get rid of Boyer until I see what Smoltz has been able to do with him.
By BravesFanInRockies
December 9, 2008 4:35 PM | Link to this
PREDICTION:
If the Braves sign Burnett for 5/$75, we’ll get at least three solid, healthy years out of him.
If instead the Yanks sign him for 5/$100, he’ll break down sometime in 2009 and will be a bigger albatross than Carl Pavano.
Because I believe in karma!
By ppaddy123
December 9, 2008 4:36 PM | Link to this
I really don’t think Sabathia will sign with the Yankees. I think he will be on the west coast. The Yankees have been run like a circus the last few years. Some guys might not mind that atmosphere, but I don’t Sabathia wants that. Burnett, on the other hand, I don’t think he cares. I think he is looking for the most money, period.
By David O'Brien
December 9, 2008 4:38 PM | Link to this
Tomas, AJ’s price is NOT going to go from four years, $60 mill to five years, $100 mill. That’s generally not quite how it works.
By Nocturnal Owl
December 9, 2008 4:40 PM | Link to this
Zambrano is crazy there is no doubt about that. He is like Hugo Chavez pitching Tomas
HA! Ya, it’s fun watching his highlights on Baseball tonight, He is nuts at times but in a funny way..except for that fight.. Big Z has the intensity of an ace and brings it.
By Joe M.
December 9, 2008 4:45 PM | Link to this
UPDATED 4:05 p.m. — Interest in Burnett intensifies
Could A.J. Burnett’s price rise to $100 million over five years?
It’s not out of the question if the Yankees lose out on CC Sabathia. At that point, Burnett’s leverage with the Yankees would be immense.
Failing to sign Burnett would leave the Yankees with free-agent options such as Derek Lowe, Ben Sheets and Randy Wolf
Feels like Burnett is slipping slowly but surely away.
By McFann O –[zzz]
December 9, 2008 4:45 PM | Link to this
Tomas—
Oh yeah. I was being a little sarcastic (shoulda stuck a ; > at the end of that post).
First off McCann would beat him to the ground
Ha…haha…maybe…I still wish I coulda seen his exchange with Jerry Hairston of the Reds! But I loved reading about it!
But you’re right, McCann’s not an…um……not a jerk. And Barrett does have a bit of a history…he sorta started the fight, anyway.
Don’t know if it’s been brought up (sorry if it has), but uh…Wayne, I think the Reds are close to sending Freel and a prospect to the O’s for the O’s catcher…
By ppaddy123
December 9, 2008 4:48 PM | Link to this
I’m sitting here listening to MLB Homeplate on XM and these Yankees fans are cracking me up. They want to sign everyone out there. They can certainly afford it. Personally, I hope they take the bait and sign Tex. The New York press will crucify him. Go ahead Yanks. Pay him $20 MM a year. They won’t sign Sabathia. The luster of being a Yankee has long been diminished by the NY media. I would hate to know I had to live my life with the media following my every move. AJ Burnett won’t sign with us. he will probably end up a Yankee. Hope is arm don’t fall off……
By Nocturnal Owl
December 9, 2008 4:49 PM | Link to this
Tomas, AJ’s price is NOT going to go from four years, $60 mill to five years, $100 mill. That’s generally not quite how it works DOB
What if CC does sign elsewhere. A.J. price could fly through the roof. I have similar feelings. Yankees want BOTH according to different reports…
By David O'Brien
December 9, 2008 4:50 PM | Link to this
Doesn’t sound like Guillen is likely to be part of any discussed deal with Braves. They’re not interested in him and his baggage, from what I hear. Not with that contract at that age, especially.
Now, Greinke, that’s a different matter. Braves would love to have him, but so would any team. Thing that obviously favors Braves is Dayton Moore’s belief in Francoeur, which is probably not matched by any other GM’s belief in the kid. No, I’ll go out on a limb and say it’s definitely not matched by any other.
But Royals are going to want Escobar and a solid prospect along with Francoeur for Greinke, from all indications. I know Braves were willing to part with Escobar in a Peavy deal, but just don’t think they would be for a relatively unproven, though very talented pitcher, who’s a free agent in two years (Peavy is under contract for four or five more years, depending on the option).
I could be wrong, but if Braves still believe they have a shot at A.J. (and they do), I don’t see them trading their shortstop to get a pitcher who’s not yet of the ace description.
By McFann O –[zzz]
December 9, 2008 4:50 PM | Link to this
N Owl Yikes remember that Barrett beating as well.
It was quite memorable…Braves really gave the Cubs a beating, too.
Yeah, Zambrano’s got skills, but I wouldn’t want him. Just something about him turns me off.
Oh I thought you liked Freel, Never mind.
That’s OK. I was pushing for Paul Bako earlier this off-season…maybe that’s what your thinking of—same team. (David Ross played for the Reds, too, ironically enough.)
By Tomas
December 9, 2008 4:55 PM | Link to this
Obviously not DOB(thats what Ken Rosenthal said sarcasticly), but I guess it’s safe to say the Braves won’t be able to outbid the Yankees.
By Chop Chop
December 9, 2008 4:57 PM | Link to this
5 years, $80-85 million.
Burnett could get that from the Yanks. That’s more money than the Braves could reasonably offer. At that salary, a Burnett injury would kill the Braves. It wouldn’t kill the Yanks.
By Dan
December 9, 2008 4:58 PM | Link to this
Things being printed indicate that the Cubs/Padres deal has cooled considerably.
DOB-Do you think that Towers is prepared to keep Peavy?
One additional question…..Taking into account each player’s respective cost to the Braves(either in prospects or cash), would you rather have Peavy or AJ Burnett?
By Wayne in Utah
December 9, 2008 4:59 PM | Link to this
PTBNL If your info on Boyer is true, then I rescind my request to trade him for Ankiel. Actually, I liked Boyer until he got tired.
So, it will have to be Acosta for Ankiel I guess.
By Efrim
December 9, 2008 5:03 PM | Link to this
So Sabathia has rejected the Yankees offer of 140 million over 6 years. If he isn’t signing for that, then he isn’t signing at all.
Good bye Burnett.
Hello…..Oliver Perez? Just kidding. Maybe Sabathia will sign eventually?
By Steve from OH
December 9, 2008 5:05 PM | Link to this
Calm down, everyone, and realize it’s rumor season, not trades-that-will-really-happen season. If KC traded Greinke for Francoeur, their fans would riot. We’re still squarely in the mix for Burnett. No need to wail and gnash the teeth yet. He’s NOT going to get 100+MM. We’re not giving up Escobar for peanuts. In fact, I think every public comment that FW give on the subject goes something like “we’re very happy with our infield (i.e. we’re not going to trade Yunel or KJ unless we’re blown away).” Oh, and he’s also flatly debunked any Kelly in left and Martin at 2B rumors. Not happening.
My money’s on our infield looking something like Kotchman, Johnson, Escobar, and Jones on opening day.
Braveheart, they make Ralph Lauren John Smoltz t-shirts? I think I’ve been deceived somewhere along the line…
By Lew
December 9, 2008 5:08 PM | Link to this
Tomas-Re: your 4:02 post-Dude, do you even live in the same dimension as the rest of us?
By Mike S
December 9, 2008 5:09 PM | Link to this
Boyer was a stud last year until Bobby wore him out. I wouldn’t trade him as just a “throw-in arm” or low-value trade piece.
I think he has a bright future. He’s got that bulldog mentality and never said a word about being overused or refused to take the ball, even when it was obvious he was worn out.
By Bobby's Cox
December 9, 2008 5:09 PM | Link to this
ESPN.com is reporting the Mets and Franky agreed to a 3 year, 37 million dollar deal.
link
By Nocturnal Owl
December 9, 2008 5:11 PM | Link to this
But Royals are going to want Escobar and a solid prospect along with Francoeur for Greinke, from all indications DOB
Sounds way too much for an unproven but possible ace. Sounds like Dayton wants the entire Braves minors he previously worked with. Challenging winter for Wren.
KROD a met
By BravesFanInRockies
December 9, 2008 5:11 PM | Link to this
ppaddy123,
Re: Yanks fans —
I listen to ESPN’s Colin Cowherd on the morning commute (my blood pressure apparently needs elevating). Anyway, he’s not sold on AJ going to NY at all; doesn’t think he could handle the media circus. (That may be why CC would prefer to be on the West Coast too.)
That may be another reason (besides being in the AL) that Peavy was reportedly that hot on NYY, even though the Yanks were apparently willing to offer a deal comparable to the Braves to get him.
By safebet
December 9, 2008 5:11 PM | Link to this
maybe would take on a guillen to make the deal then trade him.
By Bobby's Cox
December 9, 2008 5:11 PM | Link to this
It’s old news that the Dodgers re-signed Casey Blake.
But, they also signed Mark Loretta
Link
By David O'Brien
December 9, 2008 5:13 PM | Link to this
Efrim, as I said, the Yankees, at least so far, have given no indication they would guarantee a fifth year for Burnett. At his age, I’d suggest he’s not going to take a four-year deal from them even if it’s worth, say, $17 mill a year ($68 mill total), IF the Braves offer a five-year deal worth $75 mill.
Not that Braves have offered that yet, or that Yankees have flatly said they won’t, but so far that’s what I’ve gathered from conversations, that Braves will give a fifth year guarantee if that’s what it comes down to, bottom line.
At 32, with his background, I don’t think he can realistically look forward and feel like there’s a great chance he could get a another big deal four years from now.
Of course, if Yankees decide they really want him bad enough, they can simply add a fifth year guaranteed at whatever salary they want, and if Burnett (and his agent) want to take the biggest contract he’ll go there.
If he’d rather pitch in the Atlanta environment over the Yankees’ environment, he will. But I’m not privy to his thinking in that regard.
By ecpglp
December 9, 2008 5:14 PM | Link to this
On the KC website about 1/2 hour ago:
LAS VEGAS — Royals general manager Dayton Moore hates unfounded trade rumors and he loves to squelch them. So, as Moore walked down a hallway of Bellagio Hotel on Tuesday en route to a GMs’ meeting, he couldn’t resist calling aside a reporter.
“There’s nothing to the Greinke-Francoeur story,” he said with a smile, then went on his way.
That popped up earlier in the day when Tony Massarotti of the Boston Globe wrote that a “National League executive” said the Royals and Atlanta had “serious discussions” about a trade that would send pitcher Zack Greinke to the Braves for outfielder Jeff Francoeur.
But Moore promptly denied the story, in line with comments he made on Monday night about his reluctance to trade Greinke or outfielders Mark Teahen and David DeJesus.
Reports about the Kansas City’s purported interest in Francoeur also surfaced a few weeks ago but there has been no concrete evidence the Royals pursued such a deal.
By Chris
December 9, 2008 5:15 PM | Link to this
I say sign Ben Sheets regardless of injury past. Not because we want him to pitch for us but because we are tired of seeing him pitch against us. He’s been fantasy league gold everytime he faces the Braves - gets more Ks than a gallon of alphabet soup. His salary has got to be worth the couple of wins every year he costs us.
Which I like the Francouer/Escobar thing for Greinke IF AND ONLY IF we feel we call pull off a Furcal type SS for the hometown discount and can acquire a Ludwick/Ankiel for the OF.
If we don’t do that I’m ok without a power bat in the OF. I like the idea of a Francouer, Blanco/Hernandez/Schafer/Anderson type OF. I like the speed element. THe only hitch is that it would require a fundamental shift in how the Braves run their offense - it would only cover the difference in HR if our speedsters run wild on the bases like Otis Nixon used to do before he discovered his Bobby Brown treats.
By steve_97060
December 9, 2008 5:15 PM | Link to this
Where do some of you guys come up with this stuff, seriously where???? talking about the Braves just picking up Zambrano IF the Cubs get Peavy…yeah, I’m sure that would happen… some of you need to go back to your fantasy leagues and leave serious discussion to people who reside in the real world…
By @%$!%@$
December 9, 2008 5:16 PM | Link to this
DOB,
Are you at the winter meetings to report on things you’ve heard, or are you hanging in the hotel lobby, sipping a brew, mooching on the free WiFi in your biker boots and blogging to shoot the sh*t with us here on your blog?
By Nocturnal Owl
December 9, 2008 5:16 PM | Link to this
I was pushing for Paul Bako earlier this off-season McFann Not shooting for the stars huh? :) but hey its better than last year. Sounds like Ross will be a sound backup for two years. Less pressure for the new and improved McCann.
By Joe M.
December 9, 2008 5:18 PM | Link to this
Stop with the hyperbole people. I still think the Braves are the front-runners for Burnett. Who cares if the Yankees lose out on Sabithia? The Braves still have over 30 million, there is NOTHING stopping them from outbiding the Yankees.
Just ‘cause the big, bad Yankees (GASP!) are involved doesn’t mean the Braves can’t sign Burnett or anyone else if they have the money. Get over the Yankees already.
Heck, Burnett (like seemingly Sabathia) might not even want to play for the Yankees. The Braves might not even have to outbid them to sign Burnett; just come realistically close.
By Wayne in Utah
December 9, 2008 5:23 PM | Link to this
Did Drayton Moore deny the rumors with a “smile”, or with a “wink” and a “smile”?
By nolie
December 9, 2008 5:23 PM | Link to this
I don’t know, the last I heard KC wanted a package of 4-5 guys for Zach, now they are gonna take just Frenchy and include Guillen? Even saving them money I seriously doubt that is gonna happen.It would be nice though, so I’ll say a little prayer right now.
By Murphy
December 9, 2008 5:24 PM | Link to this
DeRosa would go to the Phils as a part of that Peavy deal accd to mlb.com
By Murphy
December 9, 2008 5:24 PM | Link to this
DeRosa would go to the Phils as a part of that Peavy deal accd to mlb.com
By Wilson
December 9, 2008 5:25 PM | Link to this
DOB, any chance the Braves would up their offer to Burnett to something in the range of 5 years/80-90M in hopes of ending things before Sabathia signs and the Yanks and other teams have the opportunity to make a bigger push for Burnett?
By Nocturnal Owl
December 9, 2008 5:26 PM | Link to this
Baggarly talked to an exec close to the Sabathia talks who believes the Brewers are emerging as the frontrunner
By Efrim
December 9, 2008 5:27 PM | Link to this
DOB
I hope you’re right. Because I’m not sure I’d like to see the Braves trade anymore prospects for starting pitching. Even if it isn’t the “top prospects”. With the money the Braves have, they should play the free agent market, which they are doing.
By brian
December 9, 2008 5:27 PM | Link to this
DOB - what do think was the big obstacle in the Peavy deal? Was it Towers demanding Hanson and Heyward? If so it was right for the Braves to walk away. A package of Escobar, Morton, Hernandez, and Boyer is a very good offer.
On another note do you think Escobar, Morton, and Hernandez would be offered for Greinke and do you think Moore would take that? Or substitute Francoeur for Escobar?
By Steve from OH
December 9, 2008 5:29 PM | Link to this
ESPN.com is reporting the Mets and Franky agreed to a 3 year, 37 million dollar deal.
Eh. That’s a good deal for the Mets, since they got him at a reasonable rate, but F. Rodriguez (I will never call him K-Rod) is overrated (or should I say the saves are overrated, lol) and I think he’s a TJ surgery waiting to happen. His average fastball has decreased almost 3 MPH since 2006, which is a definite warning sign. If he stays healthy, it’ll be a nice pickup, but I don’t see that happening.
By Nate in Maine
December 9, 2008 5:29 PM | Link to this
Rosenthal is an idiot. I can’t stand him and his info that he spews. I like listening to DOB. DOB Whats the News from Vegas today? Just sitting in Maine with is snowing and freezing so keep the hot stove going..
By Wayne in Utah
December 9, 2008 5:30 PM | Link to this
So Dave are you really in your biker boots? Have the one-armed-bandits been good to you so far?
If it is true that CC has rejected the NYY offer, then who would be in the drivers seat. To me, that would bode well for the Dodgers, Giants and Brewers (or anyother NL team interested, maybe?).
Next point. If the Giants signed him would they then be interest in Escobar, Frenchy and Morton for Matt Cain and Randy Winn?
(my other man crush, Ryan Freel is off to Baltimore, so I only have Matt Cain left to wish for!)
By McFann O –[zzz]
December 9, 2008 5:31 PM | Link to this
N Owl Not shooting for the stars huh?
Haha! Guess not. I guess I thought I’d start small. But he would have been an improvement. But, Ross is an improvement over Bako—I’m excited about signing him!
Less pressure for the new and improved McCann.
Oh yeah! Boy…once Christmastime is over, I’m really gonna be ready for Spring Training! Can’t wait to see the new and improved BMac play! Course, I had a dream about Opening Day the night before last…it didn’t turn out so good…
; >
By Nocturnal Owl
December 9, 2008 5:32 PM | Link to this
Stop with the hyperbole people. I still think the Braves are the front-runners for Burnett. Who cares if the Yankees lose out on Sabithia? The Braves still have over 30 million, there is NOTHING stopping them from outbiding the Yankees Joe M.
Are you kidding me?
By Josh P.
December 9, 2008 5:32 PM | Link to this
*@%$!%@$ * - I know you’re probably joking, but I think the sporadic nature of DOB’s posts today should tell ya the former is true. Dude’s probably busting his rear out there for those obsessed with the Brave’s hot stove (like me)
By Zoot Allures
December 9, 2008 5:33 PM | Link to this
Stupid Stupid Stupid, Jane You ignorant slut!
The best trades are the ones that don’t get made or is below the radar. Did anybody here know anything about who JJ Jurjens was last year, or about Smoltz before the Alexander trade. If Wren is worth anything he will make a nice small trade for somebody nobody around here has ever heard of.
I don’t want a player for 3 years. I want him for 15 years. You can keep the one night stands of Sheffield, Drew, and Tex. Escobar, Frenchy, BMc and JJ are long term relationships. You keep them around flaws and all. They will be the foundation of this team for the next decade. You dance with who brought you!
Rule number 1 in acquiring a player always get someone on the way up. Not at the top and never on the way down. If they are at the top of their game they are expensive and they can only go down. If they are past 28 forget it.
For 60 million you can stock two full teams. Look at the excitement in Tampa Bay! Remember when the Braves nation used to get excited.
The Best Free agents the Bravos ever signed (after Maddux) were Belliard, Bream and Pendleton.
I don’t see a Maddux, McGriff or even a Neagle out there this year. And I am not smart enough to know about the next Belliard, Bream and Pendleton!
The song for the day should be “The Kids are alright!” just let them play ball. Let them develop! The grass isn’t any greener in the other guys outfield. Yes Frenchy had a bad year, and maybe KJ isn’t a gold glove, and Yunnel has a temper…SO WHAT!! Don’t throw them under the bus for their flaws. Get off their case. These are our guys, Stand By Them. I wonder what this blog full of whiners would have said about signing Belliard, Bream and Pendleton.
How about this for a paraphrase on the old Zappa album “Shut up and play Ball.”
By Tomas
December 9, 2008 5:34 PM | Link to this
I hope the Cubs really would consider trading Big Z if they get Peavy. They will trade Mark Derosa, and they know Ryan Theriot is a liability defensively at shortstop, because he is a second baseman. They have shown interest in Furcal but don’t have the money to sign him. I think they would be very interested in Yunel Escobar, and a left handed hitting outfielder.
I know he sometimes is too intense and losses his temper and does not pitch so great when that happens, but he has #1 quality stuff, and he doesn’t have a history of injuries(he had dead arm this year, but nothing else, and the day he returned he pitched a no hitter). He has 4 years 76.5 million left in his contract. He is not better than Peavy, but he is better than Greinke, and younger than Aj Burnett.
How would this sound Yunel Escobar, Jordan Schafer, and Blaine Boyer for Carlos Zambrano(27yrs old) and cash(around 5-10 million).
By Wayne in Utah
December 9, 2008 5:35 PM | Link to this
If I were the Giants GM, and could get CC signed, then I would push all out to do it with pitching and defense.
Lincecum, CC, Cain, Zito, and Sanchez or Lowry. Killer rotation.
I suspect that as Zito improves his ability to adjust, he might actually do OK in the 4 slot (kinda pricy for a 4, though!)
By JR
December 9, 2008 5:35 PM | Link to this
Let’s do some math here Braves fans and AJ you can join in too on the math lesson. Let’s discuss cost of living. 15 mill per season in ATL has to be worth about 20-22 mill in NYC. I know his family isn’t moving, but it would be much more cost effective and a lot less hassle to play in Atlanta. And don’t say New York is going to contend. They are just as far away from the World Series as the Braves are. They have to pass Boston and Tampa and we have to pass Philly and the Mets. Oh well there’s my sales pitch. Go ahead and get Greinke too along with Ian Snell. Let’s over haul this team and let Bobby have one more season then move on with some fresh blood. Keep plugging Frank. Just don’t mortgage the future, but be aggressive
By Bubdylan
December 9, 2008 5:36 PM | Link to this
Are the defending World Series champs really about to help create an allstar Cubs rotation? Sigh. That’s just… upsetting.
By scottbravesfan
December 9, 2008 5:38 PM | Link to this
No way the Royals would trade Grienke that would be stupid especially for Francoeur? Forget about that one.
By nolie
December 9, 2008 5:39 PM | Link to this
McFann
I’ve used FireFox for years and absolutely love it. Much much better design than Explorer and safer and faster.
By Efrim
December 9, 2008 5:40 PM | Link to this
Steve from OH
While I agree with you that Rodriguez is overrated, it will still help the Mets over the players that they dealt with the 2nd half of 2008. I was actually hoping they would ink him to a 5 year deal. That would of been a disaster.
By cmac1919
December 9, 2008 5:42 PM | Link to this
“Not that Braves have offered that yet, or that Yankees have flatly said they won’t, but so far that’s what I’ve gathered from conversations, that Braves will give a fifth year guarantee if that’s what it comes down to, bottom line.” DOB
But isn’t that what it’s going to come down too, a 5 year deal? So why haven’t the Braves offered him one yet?
I don’t understand it, FW has no choice but to get Burnett, so he should be offering anything necessary to snag him. This isn’t like the Peavy deal where if we didn’t get Peavy, we could just turn to the free-agent market (A.J. Burnett) for an ace.
So unless there’s a plan C, it’s either Burnett or bust, right?
By Steve from OH
December 9, 2008 5:42 PM | Link to this
How would this sound Yunel Escobar, Jordan Schafer, and Blaine Boyer for Carlos Zambrano(27yrs old) and cash(around 5-10 million).
Tomas, you’re a regular poster and good Braves fan, so I’ll be nice, but seriously, man, what the heck are you smoking? That’s the most insane thing I’ve seen today. I even think it tops Francoeur-for-Greinke, and that’s saying something.
By Wayne in Utah
December 9, 2008 5:44 PM | Link to this
Tomas I don’t believe the Cubs are going to get Peavy, and if they do, I would be shocked if they trade Big Z.
Don’t get me wrong, I would love to have a guy like him. Actually, if we had him and Escobar on the same team, nobody would mess w/ the Braves, or those two could just kick some azz.
By Nocturnal Owl
December 9, 2008 5:45 PM | Link to this
If Padres accept Derosa as their infielder, then one would have to believe Peavy stopped the Yunel trade. Towers can’t be that stupid. Yunel is cheaper and has a greater upside IMO. sing along Peavy…
it didn’t turn out so good McFann The bad dreams continue into the offseason….
By Tomas
December 9, 2008 5:46 PM | Link to this
Lew, it was encouraging news at the time. I mean the Braves were going to talk with Burnett’s agent, and after hearing’s Bobby’s comments I thought they were going to guarantee him 5 yrs. The Zack Greinke for Jeff Franceour rumor hadn’t been shot down.
All that vanished in 1 hour, when CC has apperantly decided to decline the yankees offer, and now Burnett will get a lot more money from the Yankees. And the Zack Greinke rumor has been shot down.
By Paul
December 9, 2008 5:46 PM | Link to this
it may have already been addressed but if the deal the Braves offered for Peavy was so much better than what else is out there, then why are they still messing with the Cubs? Is this all a cat and mouse game? Is there any chance the braves would make a run at both Burnett and Peavy? Or too expensive?
By DCbrave
December 9, 2008 5:46 PM | Link to this
Here’s one reason to believe Escobar WON’T be traded this winter … -DOB
DOB: Thanks for the blog and that terrific article about Maddux in the paper. Just as Glavine says, there is really not many superlatives that could adequately describe Maddux’s pitching. I was in Atlanta between 1989 and 1995 and witnessed the best of Maddux for all those years. It was just great.
Now Escobar. I’m not so sure about your assessment. We all know that Cox always speaks highly of his players in public, but especially when somebody is to be dealt. Given that he described Escobar almost beyong what he should (what else of Escobar he did not say good things about? His ears so good that he could identify a curve ball from a change up with eyes closed?), that gives me the impression that he may very well be dealt. But as you said, we really hope the Braves only deal him for an ace pitcher, nothing less.
By McFann O –[zzz]
December 9, 2008 5:47 PM | Link to this
Nolie—
FireFox is better than Explorer (though I’ve only used Explorer a couple of times). I guess the reason I like Safari better is because it’s the one I’ve always used.
I just tried posting a link a little over 10 minutes ago…not here. Sheesh…
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
December 9, 2008 5:48 PM | Link to this
I have to admit, I am not as optimistic as I was about the chances of us landing an ace. I really do not think CC is going to NY, and if he doesn’t; they WILL get AJ and probably Lowe.
The Braves are going to have to hope someone else becomes available…this is where in the past I would just put my trust in JS. I hope FW can pull a rabbit out of his hat!!
By safebet
December 9, 2008 5:49 PM | Link to this
could it be that we get a Greinke, at the same time Greg leaves. somethings in the air. maybe its another 10 year run. we must always be thankful to the tigers. first run started with Smoltz. looks like this one will have a lot to do with Jiar.
By BravesFanInRockies
December 9, 2008 5:49 PM | Link to this
cmac1919,
So should the Braves offer Burnett $50 million a year if that’s what it takes?
Please. I know we’re talking about spending money that’s not ours, but there’s an upper limit on a player’s value. You might overpay a little to get the one guy you need to make a pennant run. But you don’t go insane — especially when you finished last year 19 games under .500.
Unless you’re the Rangers.
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
December 9, 2008 5:50 PM | Link to this
Of course the Cubs are NOT going to trade Zambrano…seriously, let’s tart being realistic. Even I think these Z posts are crazy, and I have been known to come up with some far reaching scenarios!!
By David O'Brien
December 9, 2008 5:52 PM | Link to this
Hearing that the Braves have asked the Pirates about LH Paul Maholm and CF Nate McLouth.
Asking price for McLouth would be huge, multiple top prospects at the very least, after he posted 76 extra-base hits (26 homers), 94 RBI, 23 steals and a .356 OBP and .853 OPS last year in his breakthrough season. Oh, and won a Gold Glove.
By Steve from OH
December 9, 2008 5:53 PM | Link to this
While I agree with you that Rodriguez is overrated, it will still help the Mets over the players that they dealt with the 2nd half of 2008.
Oh yeah, there’s no doubt of that. Rodriguez is a darn good pitcher, and 3 years is a really good deal for the Mets, but I’ll be shocked if he makes it through the life of the contract without needing Tommy John. And I agree, 5 years would’ve been a horrible deal for the Mets.
By ppaddy123
December 9, 2008 5:54 PM | Link to this
OK people……the Cubs 1st priority, according to Lou Pinella, is a power hitting lefty, like Adam Dunn. Not that he said Dunn Specifically, but that is a guy that is out there and has power. They aren’t trading DeRossa. The Cubs love that guy.
By rammerjammer
December 9, 2008 5:55 PM | Link to this
The question for Burnett is whether he’ll take the most money. If he does, NY gets him most likely. But not every player wants to play in NY, in which case Atlanta is in a good position.
Hey, it could be we had AJ when Frank said “hello,” and now he and his agent are just looking for a little lagniappe.
By David O'Brien
December 9, 2008 5:57 PM | Link to this
By the way, Javier Vazquez is doing an online chat over at the Braves’ website (Braves.com) tomorrow at 2 p.m.
By Nocturnal Owl
December 9, 2008 5:57 PM | Link to this
San Diego GM has pieces in place for trade, if Chicago’s ready
According to CBSSports.com, the Padres could receive a package of 20-year-old third-base prospect Josh Vitters and pitchers Kevin Hart and Jason Marquis. Marquis will earn $9.875 million next season, which means the Padres might need the Cubs to assume part of the salary in such a deal.
The CBSSports.com report also said the Padres would end up with left-handed pitcher J.A. Happ and catcher Chris Coste. San Diego is looking for a backup catcher and Coste would certainly fill that void.
If the Orioles are involved, the Padres could land left-handed pitcher Garrett Olson, a player who has been linked to San Diego in the last month.
Sheesh
By #2%@^@&*
December 9, 2008 5:58 PM | Link to this
I was 100% joking. I know Dave, and was just giving him a hard time (even though he won’t know who’s saying it). Keep it up O’Brien
By SteveInRaleigh
December 9, 2008 5:59 PM | Link to this
The things I’ve read indicate Smoltz is thinking starting rotation. Put him in there with Vazquez, Jurrjens, Glavine and Campillo. Morton, Reyes, and Hanson can fill-in the gaps due to injuries that seem inevitable. Not great, but seems as good as Philadelphia’s rotation was last year. I feel like we need the bat more than we need the arm. Right now, we won’t score any runs when Chipper makes his usual run on the DL. Not to mention teams will pitch around him. Give me Ankiel and a rejuevenated Franceour…. oh, and let’s hope Kotchman gets it together next year.
By Moby Grape
December 9, 2008 6:02 PM | Link to this
I don’t think you’re reading carefully. DOB thinks (and PopeVanIII and I suggested) that the Royals might be willing to essentially trade Greinke for Francouer straight-up if the Braves also took Guillen and his $12 million salary.
In that scenario, the Braves might have to throw in one other prospect. But we’re not talking a Peavy-like deal for Greinke. BFIR
Oh I’m reading and comprehending, and i think you guys are dreaming. Not gonna happen that way.
By Joe M.
December 9, 2008 6:03 PM | Link to this
Maholm? Please don’t tell me the Braves consider him and Vasquez the two “top of the rotation” pitchers they spoke of.
Would Maholm eliminate Burnett?
By SteveInRaleigh
December 9, 2008 6:03 PM | Link to this
Paul Maholm huh? Looks like another Glavine, statistically. 3.71 ERA last year wasn’t bad, 139 K’s is about average, but allows a lot of base-runners. He’d give us a lefty, but not a front-of-rotation guy.
By McFann O –[zzz]
December 9, 2008 6:03 PM | Link to this
N Owl The bad dreams continue into the offseason…
Sure do…though I did get through November without having one. Hope that doesn’t mean I’m in for two this month…
By Salty Dawg
December 9, 2008 6:04 PM | Link to this
But isn’t that what it’s going to come down too, a 5 year deal? So why haven’t the Braves offered him one yet?
I don’t understand it, FW has no choice but to get Burnett, so he should be offering anything necessary to snag him. This isn’t like the Peavy deal where if we didn’t get Peavy, we could just turn to the free-agent market (A.J. Burnett) for an ace.
Cardinal rule of poker - never tip your hand. The Braves could come out of the gate and offer 5 years/$75 mil, but then they would be setting the market at the highest point they are willing to go. They have to leave room to come back over the top if another team (ahem, the Yankees) outbid their first offer, which will surely be the case. If it turns out that the Yankees and other suitors aren’t willing to go for the 5th year as has been speculated, the Braves can come back and evaluate how much the can spend on a 5-year deal. If they come right out at 5/75 and nobody outbids them then they may be paying more than they had to. I’ve seen several sources report that neither the Yankees or Sox want to guarantee a 5th year. If CC spurns the Yankees they may not have a choice. If they Yankees are only willing to go, say 4/68 or so, the Braves could very well swoop in and pick him up by guaranteeing 5 years at less per year.
By McFann O –[zzz]
December 9, 2008 6:05 PM | Link to this
McLouth?? He stole BMac’s tenth-place MVP vote!
; >
By BravesFanInRockies
December 9, 2008 6:08 PM | Link to this
McLouth …
Wow. That would be a pick-up.
Wonder if we’d have to take Freddy Sanchez off their hands, too? I think the PGH brass soured on him last year. He might actually be better than Nitram as an everyday 2B, although much more costly.
Some deal involving KJ and big-time prospects?
By Braveheart
December 9, 2008 6:10 PM | Link to this
Interesting article about Javier Vazquez:
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/the-engima-that-is-javier-vazquez/
Here’s a section of the article:
Is this Vazquez’s fate? Is he destined to be a pitcher with great potential that never lives up to it? Despite the fact that he in his 30s I think there is still hope. Here are some things I would try to alter with Vazquez if I were Braves pitching coach Roger McDowell. First, Vazquez has an extremely good fastball but he is only using it about 53 percent of the time (league average is close to 60 percent). Other pitchers would kill for a fastball that either was as fast as or moved as much as Vazquez’s, so why is he using less than other pitchers? In particular, I don’t think Vazquez is using his fastball enough early in the count, throwing it just 56 percent on 0-0, 48 percent on 0-1 and 52 percent on 1-0. When you have a plus fastball, use it to get ahead in the count. Getting ahead in the count is only going to make his off-speed pitches better.
Vazquez has an excellent change-up which he correctly is using only against left handed batters. Still, he isn’t using that pitch nearly enough. Vazquez is throwing his change-up around 19 percent of the time to lefties, but he is throwing his slider 21 percent of the time. By pretty much any metric his slider is his forth best pitch, so why is he throwing it so often? Pitchers want something hard they can come in with to hitters with the platoon advantage so there is a place for the slider but just not nearly as often as he is throwing it. There is a similar story to right handed batters where Vazquez’s curve has much better movement than his slider yet he is throwing his slider far more often (22 to 16 percent).
Lastly, I think Vazquez should pick one or two of his pitches to use as his strikeout pitch. Right now he is using all three of his off speed pitches about equally when he gets two strikes on the hitter. If he focused on even one pitch to right-handed batters and another to left-handed batters to use in strikeout situations I think he would be better off. Maybe that is the slider to right handed batters and the curve to left handed batters but whatever the case work on starting that pitch down and away but still in the strike zone only to have to move out of the zone getting the hitters to chase.
As is, I think the Braves have themselves a middle of the rotation innings eater that should provide nearly league average production. In the current market that might be worth the $11.5 million they will be paying him in the next two years. That said, the potential is there for Vazquez to become a top of the rotation starter. The tools are there and a little molding might be all it takes. However, the Braves will be Vazquez’s fifth big league team and none of the previous four have been able to figure him out.
By David O'Brien
December 9, 2008 6:11 PM | Link to this
If the Braves land Burnett, they will have added two guys (Burnett and Vazquez) who had 431 strikeouts between them last season, two of the top four strikeout leaders in the AL.
That’s 431 strikeouts in 429-2/3 innings by those two
Now consider this: All 11 pitchers who started for the Braves last season combined for 595 strikeouts in 886-1/3 innings.
By Marv Kleeman
December 9, 2008 6:11 PM | Link to this
Hey fellow Braves fans:
I’m actually more concerned about our bullpen in 2009 than our starting rotation.
Our closer Mike Gonzalez is fine; but our two main options in the bullpen (Rafael Soriano and Peter Moylan) are coming off very serious elbow/arm injuries that resulted in surgery.
We have no idea how effective they’ll be once they return.
And will Soriano and Moylan be able to withstand the rigors of Bobby Cox and his Bataan Death March approach to our bullpen.
Do you remember how repeated over usage wore out Blaine Boyer and Manny Acosta in 08.
I think the Braves made a terrible tactical mistake by not re signing Will Ohman (2 years 8 million ought to do it) and by not placing Jorge Julio on the 40 man roster.
Did you guys see Jorge Julio’s statistics upon his recall from Richmond AAA; allowing one earned run and striking out 19 batters in 12 1/3 innings! WOW
We have 25 pitchers on our 40 man roster (yes 25) but had no room for Jorge Julio who in his late season audition for the Braves passed with flying colors.
As for Will Ohman; yes he is expensive but we have 5 lefties on our 40 man roster (Francisley Bueno, Chuck James, Boone Logan, Eric O’Flaherty, and Jeff Ridgway) and I wonder whether all 5 lefties combined can give us what Will Ohman can.
Heck, I would even consider bringing back Vladimir Nunez. How many Braves fans were aware Vladimir Nunez was once the closer for the Florida Marlins and in 2002 saved 20 games. And that in 32 2/3 innings with the Braves in 08 did not allow a home run.
But at the very least; Will Ohman and Jorge Julio should have been retained as a safety valve for our bullpen.
By Dim Bulb Braves Fan
December 9, 2008 6:12 PM | Link to this
Stop with the hyperbole people. I still think the Braves are the front-runners for Burnett. Joe M.
Who is this Hyperbole fella and can he hit for power. If so, let’s get Hyperbole and Freel. Then if AJ does not work out, perhaps Mark Redman-whose name must never be spoken, could take over as #1 until Hudson returns.
Bobby Cox says that Redman has been “lights out” in his basement against mole crickets. I always believe Donk’s player assessments to the press, don’t you?
By Salty Dawg
December 9, 2008 6:12 PM | Link to this
Let’s do some math here Braves fans and AJ you can join in too on the math lesson. Let’s discuss cost of living. 15 mill per season in ATL has to be worth about 20-22 mill in NYC. I know his family isn’t moving, but it would be much more cost effective and a lot less hassle to play in Atlanta. And don’t say New York is going to contend. They are just as far away from the World Series as the Braves are. They have to pass Boston and Tampa and we have to pass Philly and the Mets. Oh well there’s my sales pitch. Go ahead and get Greinke too along with Ian Snell. Let’s over haul this team and let Bobby have one more season then move on with some fresh blood. Keep plugging Frank. Just don’t mortgage the future, but be aggressive.
Atlanta definitely has the “cost of living” advantage, but NYC has many other advantages. Given the option and money being no object, I would much prefer to live in NYC. But if I were Burnett, or any player for that matter, a key deciding factor for me would be the media and fans. It seems like almost every player who has spent time in Atlanta loved it and loved playing for Cox. With NY teams it seems more love/hate. As soon as you go cold you are skewered unmercifully by both the fans and media. That, to me, would be a tough situation to play in. Look at A-Rod for the love of God. You could make an argument for him being the best all-around player in baseball and even he gets blasted as soon as he hits a slump. Now, if you are sure that you will go in and be a superstar from day one then maybe you aren’t concerned. But nobody can live up to that spotlight.
By Lew
December 9, 2008 6:13 PM | Link to this
Tomas-Dude, you don’t even listen to yourself as you post. Yesterday it was get Ty Wigginton for our left fielder, even though he’s played less than 50 games in the outfield during his entire career. Then you mentioned him filling in when Chipper was out. When I pointed this all out to you (that he couldn’t be our left fielder AND our third base fill in), your response was that we had Prado who could play left field and 3B. ?????????????? One had nothing whatsoever to do with the other and the other was total absurdity to begin with.
Now you come up with the Cubs will get Peavy and trade Zambrano.??????????? Really? WTF would they even consider doing that? It makes no sense whatsoever. None. Zero. Zilch. Nada. Not a F#%King bit. It is absurd, stupid, insane and not even in the realm of possibility (maybe they’d consider moving Lilly, but Zambrano?) and now when something is said you talk about the “Francoeur/Grienke” deal where you’re willing to trade almost as extensive a package as for Peavy to get Grienke, who is still mostly unproven and is only under contractual control for 2/5 the time Peavy is.
Dude, you have little sense of reality with these trades and your consistent fantasy conjectures about salary structure (remember wanting to offer Tazawa $15 mil to sign for three years?). Now you wonder why I think you’re extra dimensional? Dude. DUDE.
You’re a seemingly nice person and never have anything bad to say about anyone and I respect you for that. But realistic and rationally well informed? Uh Uh. No way.
By Salty Dawg
December 9, 2008 6:18 PM | Link to this
Would Maholm eliminate Burnett?
If you haven’t been paying attention, Burnett may be on the cusp of being out of the Braves’ price range. And aside from CC, there aren’t a lot of other legitimate #1 guys on the market. If the Peavy thing is indeed dead in the water and the Yankees go crazy over Burnett, the Braves only choice is to start moving down the list. We all know that Wren said he wanted to pick up two top of the rotation starters. I’m sure he wanted to get Peavy and Burnett. But wanting something and being able to do it are two different things entirely. All Wren can do is get the best two starters that are available and affordable. The alternative is to go crazy and mortgage the future of the club by spending way too much on two great starters, which would leave the Braves unable to field a decent team around them.
By Efrim
December 9, 2008 6:20 PM | Link to this
Asking price for McLouth would be huge, multiple top prospects at the very least, after he posted 76 extra-base hits (26 homers), 94 RBI, 23 steals and a .356 OBP and .853 OPS last year in his breakthrough season. Oh, and won a Gold Glove.
I’d stay away. Good player indeed. But the Braves need to keep those top prospects just in case they lose out on Burnett. But he’d be a nice addition to the OF
By Tomas
December 9, 2008 6:21 PM | Link to this
Wayne, according to Baseball Prospectus A crazy rumor making the rounds at the Bellagio in Las Vegas is that the Cubs would entertain the idea of possibly trading right-hander Carlos Zambrano in a blockbuster if, as expected, they acquire Padres ace Jake Peavy.
Steve from OH, okay I admit I might be a bit unrealistic or very. I think you would agree that Jake Peavy is a better pitcher than Zambrano, and cheaper. Jake Peavy has 4yrs 59 million left in his contract, Carlos Zambrano has 4yrs 76.5 million. Jake Peavy had an ERA of 2.85, and Zambrano had an ERA of 3.91. Braves offer for Peavy was Yunel Escobar, Gorkys Hernandez, Charlie Morton, and Blaine Boyer. Obviously if Peavy is better and cheaper than Big Z, then the offer they had for Peavy still works for Zambrano. From a realistic point of view I think it should be similar to what they were offering to the Padres but not as good. Would Jo-jo Reyes, Yunel Escobar, and Jordan Schafer for Carlos Zambrano be more possible?
By Chop Chop
December 9, 2008 6:27 PM | Link to this
If I’m Burnett, I’d rather pitch in front of a cow-dominated, half-empty den of pagan idolatry than a brand-new Yankee Stadium filled with fans.
Then again, I’m partial to Chick-Fil-A sammiches.
By john Fisher
December 9, 2008 6:28 PM | Link to this
DOB
oh that last comment you were making it sound like the Braves are not getting Burnett……
WTF?
By Nocturnal Owl
December 9, 2008 6:29 PM | Link to this
Tomas, I think we would trade Hanson before Cubs trade Z and pay us 10MM! LOL
By Moby Grape
December 9, 2008 6:29 PM | Link to this
The Braves still have over 30 million, there is NOTHING stopping them from outbiding the Yankees JoeM
common sense and fiscal responsibility? At those elevated prices an injury to AJ would be devastating to the Braves, much less so to the Yanks. They can pay whatever they want to, and still afford to turn around and replace him if he gets seriously hurt. The Braves, not so much.
By Chop Chop
December 9, 2008 6:30 PM | Link to this
Let’s trade for free agent Milton Bradley and start him in center.
After that, we’ll trade Francoeur for Zambrano. The Cubs need an outfielder.
Let’s trade Pat Burrell to the Dodgers for Juan Pierre.
Problems solved.
Do whatever it takes, Wren. The ball’s in your court, sir.
By Original Jon
December 9, 2008 6:30 PM | Link to this
SI.com’s Jon Heyman says the Yankees are considering making a five-year offer to Burnett.
Looks like we might not get our Ace from the free agent pool either. Chances are looking more and more slim that we get our Ace. Peavy talks are dead, Sabathia was never considered, Burnett seems to be slipping away, Lowe was never really on our radar and other guys will start slipping away too. Looks like its going to be throw ins like Randy Wolf or John Garland.
God, I wish Wren would just ask Burnetts agent and say, ‘Look, if we guarantee a fifth year now, could we at least get an answer by the end of the day?”
By Efrim
December 9, 2008 6:35 PM | Link to this
If the Braves were able to land Burnett, they would have added two guys (Burnett and Vazquez) who had 431 strikeouts between them last season, two of the top four strikeout leaders in the AL.
That’s 431 strikeouts in 429-2/3 innings by those two
Now consider this: All 11 pitchers who started for the Braves last season combined for 595 strikeouts in 886-1/3 innings.
Good. I commend the Braves for going after pitchers that miss bats. Burnett, Vasquez, Jurrjens, and some combo of Morton/Reyes/Hanson/Campillo to fill the last two spots will make this an above average rotation.
By f.n. hale
December 9, 2008 6:37 PM | Link to this
Am I the only one here that thinks the Yankees purported interest in A.J. is just gamesmanship? He doesn’t seem like a good fit to me. The Yanks passed on Johan last year because they believed in their kids. Three of their kids have been hurt and none have shown they can eat a lot of innings so wouldn’t you think the Yanks would be hotter on Lowe who figures to log more innings, thereby saving their fragile arms? I’ve gotta believe they’re looking at Tex as well. Can’t believe they’d stand by and let the Red Sox add him without at least driving the price up. They’ve been awfully quite on both fronts and out there with the A.J. talk but I ain’t buying it.
By Mitchell
December 9, 2008 6:38 PM | Link to this
Did anybody else feel kind of moved when they said Maddux would go into the Hall of Fame as a Brave?
I don’t know, that sounds weird I realize. I was watching Karl Ravich yesterday talking about him on Baseball Tonight and just when he said “he will go in as a Brave” I felt very honored.
He’s been away from the Braves combined about as long as the time he was a Brave. I honestly was unsure, I mean I knew but… to hear it that way made it sink in.
I have a photographic memory when it comes to dates and events but strangely I have a hard time recalling what it was like all those years, the ’90s in particular. It seems like a really long time ago. I guess that’s because it was. Damn!
I’m ready for ‘09.
By Braveheart
December 9, 2008 6:38 PM | Link to this
If I’m Burnett, I’d rather pitch in front of a cow-dominated, half-empty den of pagan idolatry than a brand-new Yankee Stadium filled with fans.
Half empty stadium with half the crowd chatting on their cell phones doing a half hearted chop
By propp
December 9, 2008 6:38 PM | Link to this
chop chop, you forgot to sign dunn as your DH. haha
By brent a.
December 9, 2008 6:40 PM | Link to this
Let’s all be sure and not overload the Braves.com server tomorrow during the Javier Vazquez live chat.
So McFann, that means no lists of Christmas songs, and Anders, no stupid comments about anything!
By TennesseePaul
December 9, 2008 6:41 PM | Link to this
Braves will give a fifth year guarantee if that’s what it comes down to
I’ve seen this posted multiple times by DOB. Makes me think AJ’s agent is just going to force Wren’s hand. Why not? If the Braves are willing to give a fifth year guaranteed “if that’s what it comes down to” then AJ’s agent should just say: “That’s what it comes down to.”
Now the trick is, and if Wren pulls this off he’ll instantly be the best GM ever, to work in a Team opt-out clause. If he stinks after three years, the Braves get to walk away from the deal.
By TennesseePaul
December 9, 2008 6:43 PM | Link to this
Half empty stadium with half the crowd chatting on their cell phones doing a half hearted chop
Chop? I thought they were all Cubs and Red Sox fans…
By Left Field
December 9, 2008 6:44 PM | Link to this
Anders,Everyone knows your Mets are at best a second place team,we will get AJ,Greinke,a power hitting left filder ,and SJ will return. Now you are a 3rd place team.
By David O'Brien
December 9, 2008 6:45 PM | Link to this
Orioles just traded C Ramon Hernandez and cash to the Reds for Ryan Freel (mercifully eliminating him from further Braves/MIB blog comments) and minor league infielders Justin Turner and Brandon Waring.
Matt Wieters now goes to spring with starting job.
By Chop Chop
December 9, 2008 6:47 PM | Link to this
propp,
The NFL doesn’t have the DH.
By nolie
December 9, 2008 6:48 PM | Link to this
nteresting article about Javier Vazquez:
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/the-engima-that-is-javier-vazquez/
Here’s a section of the article: Braveheart
OK now that ticks me off. LOL. I have tried 4 times to post that article about JV, but it has never appeared. It acts like it should, just never comes up. First time I’ve had that problem. Anyway, interesting reading and why Bobby & scouts like the guy so much
By Ronald Millsaps
December 9, 2008 6:49 PM | Link to this
“Crafty” is indeed a great adjective for Greg Maddux’s historic approach, and no one ever has been craftier.
Mark Lemke talks on the radio about how he’d be at second and wouldn’t have any idea about what Maddux was going to throw next.
John Smoltz once said that he and Maddux were sitting in the dugout, and Maddux warned that the next pitch would be fouled into the dugout. Sure enough, it was. (Obviously, there was a chance it wouldn’t have been, but he had the anticipation of knowing when a hitter was off-balanced and how he was getting set up. There are many more stories such as this one.)
Barack Obama wants a playoff system for college football. Better yet, let’s have one for presidential nominees.
By Efrim
December 9, 2008 6:50 PM | Link to this
f.n. hale
I think the Yankees interest is real because there is a real chance that Sabathia ends up on the west coast.
And I do think they would go to five years. One extra season for 16 million for the Yankees is not THAT big of a deal.
By nolie
December 9, 2008 6:53 PM | Link to this
. Jake Peavy had an ERA of 2.85, and Zambrano had an ERA of 3.91 Tomas
I’m afraid that is a pretty worthless comparison given the extreme differences in the way those two parks play. Try another more meaningful stat.
By Original Jon
December 9, 2008 6:55 PM | Link to this
Left Field Thats exactly where your comments came from.
By Geo.
December 9, 2008 6:56 PM | Link to this
I’m a habitual DOB reader, however, I have only posted comments on here a couple of times in the past. Let me start by saying I don’t know of a bigger Braves fan than myself. I’m the ulitmate optimist as well. Wren is a very shrewd GM as was JS. If we find out too late that we lost out on AJ and Peavy has already been traded to the Cubs, Wren would have “shrewded” us right into another medicore season. We will not be anything other than just okay, if we don’t land either AJ or Peavy. I would never trade Hanson and with he and JJ we have two pitchers that I feel will be very dominant even in 2009. I don’t care if they are young, they will be dominant pitchers in 2009. Vazquez gives us three very good pitchers, but we need either AJ or Peavy to even have a chance of competing with the Phillies and Mets, not to mention the Cubs. I hope that Wren doesn’t think he can put a spin on a failed attempt to land an ace. We have the money, let’s use some of it to get AJ and let’s get it done now by guaranteeing a 5th year. A 5th year makes me cringe, but if we are going to compete, we need to take the risks that other teams are taking. We also need a power hitter. Either we say we are going to compete for a World Series and put our money where our mouth is or Wren needs to just come on out and say, “We are playing not for a World Series, but for just a winning season.” As stated, I’m a very…very big Braves fan…always have been, but it is time to play and pay as if we want to field a “World Series” team and not just a “winning” team.
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
December 9, 2008 7:00 PM | Link to this
I commend FW for his efforts, and I think I am usually an optimist, but I do have my doubts that the Bravos will get their ace. I hope I am wrong, but I just really do not think they will. I hate the Yankees. H.A.T.E.
By Efrim
December 9, 2008 7:03 PM | Link to this
http://community.post-gazette.com/blogs/pbc/archive/2008/12/09/winter-meetings-2008-day-2.aspx
6:08 p.m.: I am further told that the Braves are going “pretty heavily” into trying to get one or both of these players. But I advise again: Imagine the return necessary to do something like that, and stay realistic.
Yea, they would probably want several top prospects.
Rotoworlds take:
The Pirates aren’t looking to trade either and would need an awful lot back in order to part with both. We’re talking a Jason Heyward-type return. The Post-Gazette’s Dejan Kovacevic said he was informed that the Braves are going “pretty heavily” into trying to get one or both of the players.
Not sure why the Braves would do that, as they wouldn’t part with top prospects for Peavy. Maholm is coming off a good year, but not fantastic by any stretch.
By Tomas
December 9, 2008 7:03 PM | Link to this
Lew, DUDE,
I never said the Braves should sign Tazawa to 3 yrs 15 million, I was just reading they were going to pay him 5 million, then I read it was a signing bonus. Man I know that would just be stupid, very stupid.
I think Ty Wigginton makes sense. He definitely won’t be a great fielder in left field, but he is at least better than Burrell, and Infante. He played 30 games this year replacing Carlos Lee, and didn’t make an error, though I’m sure his range must have been pretty pathetic, but he at least catches fly balls. He is a good hitter, who can hit 20-30 homers per year, and earns less than 10 million. He doesn’t need to replace Chipper, we already have 2 subs for him when he isn’t able to play Martin Prado, and Omar Infante, and they did a pretty good job. That what they did this year, but instead of having Infante play LF, Wigginton will play LF.
He is not a great left fielder, but he can hit. And he can hit lefthanders. In my personal opinion I think that’s a good fit for the Braves, but that’s me an unrealistic unimformed person.
And the Zambrano thing I saw that the Cubs may be entartaining the idea of trading IF they get Jake Peavy. It didn’t say anything about the Braves being interested, or working a deal. But if the Braves don’t sign Burnett, and the Cubs get Jake Peavy, you’ve got to figure the Braves would definitely be interested.
By McFann O –[zzz]
December 9, 2008 7:07 PM | Link to this
Brent A.—
I’ll try to control myself. ; )
……If I cann get on the thing, that is. But I never know what to say when I’m talking to baseball players…OK, so U Kno Who is the only one I’ve gotten the chance to chat with since I became a huge fann. (We met Glenn Hubbard at Lowe’s in 2004, ya know.)
By Tomas
December 9, 2008 7:11 PM | Link to this
Nolie you’re right, the NL west is seriously lacking of hitting. But still Jake Peavy won a Cy young in 2006, and is cheaper.
If you had both of them on your team who would be you’re ace? Mine would be Peavy, just because I consider him one of the best pitchers in baseball.
My top 5 are CC Sabathia, Johan Santana, Jake Peavy, Brandon Webb, and (Cliff Lee, Roy Halladay,or Dan Haren).
By Joe M.
December 9, 2008 7:15 PM | Link to this
I’m afraid that is a pretty worthless comparison given the extreme differences in the way those two parks play. Try another more meaningful stat.
How about ERA+, which is park-adjusted?
Jake Peavy, 2008: 134 ERA+
Carlos Zambrano, 2008: 114 ERA+
So the Burnett-to-the-Braves thing does, in fact, seem to be fading now. I guess the Yankee/Met/RedSox entitlement wins out again and they get nearly everything they want.
Gone Peavy, maybe gone Burnett. So now what’s the next player/football that Lucy Wren will pull away from Charlie Braves-Everyfan?
By keylargo
December 9, 2008 7:16 PM | Link to this
Ramon Hernandez AND Cash for Ryan (Lil Wayne) Freel! Those O’s are not standing still in the AL East.
By Tomas
December 9, 2008 7:20 PM | Link to this
I think I can safely say your.and.idiot.
By northbeach Scott
December 9, 2008 7:22 PM | Link to this
“Tomas” I think I can safely say your.and.idiot.
By northbeach Scott
December 9, 2008 7:22 PM | Link to this
“Tomas” I think I can safely say your.and.idiot.
By Wayne in Utah
December 9, 2008 7:25 PM | Link to this
The O’s have got to be the definite favorites for the AL East in 2009 now!
CC who?
By Braveheart
December 9, 2008 7:26 PM | Link to this
My favorite Maddux memory was a masterpiece shutout he threw in Yankee Stadium.
I didn’t go to the game but my mother and sisters went. My dad was on vacation and wanted to cram in as many hours as he could during his vacation teaching me how to drive. So we dropped the rest of the family off at the Stadium. My dad didn’t trust me to drive around the Stadium traffic. So the deal was that he would get us out of the vicinity of the Stadium and then we’d switch seats and I’d drive.
It was a total waste of time. By the time we cleared the traffic, it was time to turn around and go pick up the family because Maddux had finished the Yanks off in like an hour. We had the game on the radio and all my dad could say was “Friggin’ Maddux.”
My mother and sisters, who like going to games at Yankee Stadium just to see how crazy the crowd can be, thought the game was a waste of their time and money because Maddux killed the crowd so badly and finished the game so fast, it felt like the game had never started.
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
December 9, 2008 7:26 PM | Link to this
And the icing on the cake:
“TUESDAY: Rosenthal says Smoltz’s agents are passing out medical info to teams. Rosenthal spoke to one GM who believed Smoltz might be willing to leave the Braves.”
If that happens, I will quit watching baseball.
By Wayne in Utah
December 9, 2008 7:28 PM | Link to this
Now that Freel is off the board, can we concentrate on someone else now. How about Rocco Baldelli or Chone Figgins?
By Pickens
December 9, 2008 7:29 PM | Link to this
Nate McClouth would be a nice addition along with Snell/Maholm but ONLY if we can grab Burnett also. Burnett is the KEY to the Braves having a chance next yr.
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
December 9, 2008 7:30 PM | Link to this
Shouldn’t FW at least talk to Towers…I mean, come on!!!
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
December 9, 2008 7:31 PM | Link to this
Any word if the Braves did indeed meet with AJ’s agent today, and if so; any progress?
By ncscoots
December 9, 2008 7:34 PM | Link to this
Ramon Hernandez AND Cash for Ryan (Lil Wayne) Freel! Those O’s are not standing still in the AL East.
Oh, yes. THAT trade puts them right over the top, LOL.
Not to worry, I expect mentions of Chone Figgins to ramp up considerably now that one of my names-that-must-not-be-mentioned has been moved. Maybe Wayne can get HIS azz traded, too. :-)
By f.n. hale
December 9, 2008 7:37 PM | Link to this
Efrim no doubt they can afford it, but it just doesn’t make sense to me unless they’re giving up on Joba, Hughes and the rest. Hank Steinbrenner just seems like he would want to stick it to the sox and do you see them sticking with Swisher at 1st with Tex, supposedly on the sox radar?
By SteveInRaleigh
December 9, 2008 7:37 PM | Link to this
Burnett signing with ATL AND Burnett staying healthy is KEY to the Braves having a chance next year.
By TexasBrave
December 9, 2008 7:38 PM | Link to this
Rosenthal states Free-agent right-hander John Smoltz’s agents are circulating recent video of the pitcher as well as his medical reports to clubs at the winter meetings
DOB should Brave fans be worried or is Smoltz’s agent trying to pressure the Braves?
By Led Zep
December 9, 2008 7:39 PM | Link to this
Would you agree, the Mets just gained “at lease” 5-7 wins by signing Rodriguez. That alone would have won them the division in 2008.
By Wayne in Utah
December 9, 2008 7:42 PM | Link to this
Scoots I traded my azz years ago. Now it is a big old blob of goo!
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
December 9, 2008 7:45 PM | Link to this
From the MLB.com Blog:
“”None of this is contingent on what CC or anybody else does,” Braunecker said. “If the right deal presents itself from the right club, we’ll be prepared to act.”
Braunecker still contends that a five-year deal will be available for Burnett if that is what he ultimately desires. The offer the Braves provided last week included a vesting option for a fifth season.”
Well, we need to find out what the right offer is!
By f.n. hale
December 9, 2008 7:48 PM | Link to this
TexasBrave I think Smoltz’s agent has to establish a value and that’s the only way to do it. They can throw figures around between themselves but until they have comparables those figures don’t mean a thing. Now if he establishes a market of $10MM a year, who knows where that goes, but I can’t imagine that would happen.
By Nelson
December 9, 2008 7:50 PM | Link to this
DOB: Please send Bobby my appreciation for the comments on Escobar. If Bobby is so happy with him, then who is the blind person in this organization that wants to trade him, that will be a huge mistake, who ever is in the mix, including Peavy, OK.
By ncscoots
December 9, 2008 7:51 PM | Link to this
Smoltz’s agents would be derelict if they didn’t approach other teams. Their guy doesn’t have a contract, remember? Depending on the good graces of the Braves, regardless of the low probability that the organization would shaft Smoltz, would be foolish in the extreme. That’s how you become an ex-agent.
And, thank you, Wayne, I knew I could count on you!
By Wayne in Utah
December 9, 2008 7:55 PM | Link to this
I think we need to stay away from McLouth. I think he might be due to come down a notch or two. Two years ago, he was not even the Pirates top CF prospect.
But hey, I’ve been wrong two or three (dozen?) times.
By The Real Joebrave
December 9, 2008 7:56 PM | Link to this
Face it Folks,Frank Wren is a VORPING FAILURE!!!
By ncscoots
December 9, 2008 7:59 PM | Link to this
Scoots I traded my azz years ago. Now it is a big old blob of goo
No. No goo. Let’s not tempt that doltish poster into returning.
By ncscoots
December 9, 2008 8:05 PM | Link to this
Scoots I traded my azz years ago. Now it is a big old blob of goo
Also, there is an easy way to disguise that problem.
Wear khakis.
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
December 9, 2008 8:06 PM | Link to this
I think the Braves are going to get outbid for the services of A.J. Burnett and If the Braves lose John Smoltz to free agency, Wren and Cox better leave town (Atlanta), quickly.
As for the rumors surrounding Paul Maholm and Nate McLouth, I’ll have to take them with a grain of salt. This only has legs if the Pirates are anticipating having to dump payroll. The Buco’s have 11 players arbitration eligible including the aforementioned two players.
Paul Maholm is intriguing. The young lefty has razor-sharp command of a deep arsenal of pitches. He throws his fastball, change-up, curve and slider for first-pitch strikes and knows how to pitch. His fastball isn’t overpowering, but has learned to throw his sinker for strikes more consistently and mixes in his three other pitches effectively. He has quietly become the Pirates ace, which makes me doubt the validity of these rumors.
By 18 Wheels of Love
December 9, 2008 8:09 PM | Link to this
I’m renaming the Winter Meetings to The Winter Yawnings.
By Wayne in Utah
December 9, 2008 8:12 PM | Link to this
ex-nay on the oo-g ay!
By flange1
December 9, 2008 8:13 PM | Link to this
I thought we were done with goo…and Ryan Freel…..
and now CHONE FIGGINS!!
Yowsa!!!!
Wayne, I thought Nate McLouth would be your kind of guy?
JoeBrave, dude give FW a little time before you decide he is a failure. He had a pretty decent off season last year.
By shumate
December 9, 2008 8:19 PM | Link to this
what i dont get is why the braves havent went after a proven closer, most people remember that when the braves were winning they had a proven and reliable closer, are we gonna depend on rafael soriano?, i hope not. we need someone proven. Huston Street is available go out and get him. Hes proven. Every winning team has a lights out closer, your starting pitching can only pitch so far into games, you need someone to slam the door!
By Heath
December 9, 2008 8:20 PM | Link to this
I have never been one to think that the Braves should make moves just for the sake of making moves, but in all reality, the Braves are buyers this year. On top of being buyers, the Braves finally seem to have money when most teams don’t (aside from the normal evil empires from NY and Bos). I will be very discouraged if this offseason doesn’t yield a drastic improvement to the team… And for me, I’m not opposed to using our money to pay for acquiring young talent instead of proven veterans (like throwing a lot of money at the Pirates—which they always need).
By Ron in mobile
December 9, 2008 8:20 PM | Link to this
I wonder if the guy that was handing out the medical info on Smoltz is the same one that was spewing garbage about being open to other teams a few weeks ago.
Of all the unceartainty of this offseason, there is one absolute truth. If he has a right arm attached to his body that is ready to pitch. There will be a tomahawk across his chest.
Everyone remember his last time on the mound and he was throwing 96mph gas. We found out a few days later his shoulder was one of the worst Andrews had ever seen.
The bearded icon returns in late March 09…thats a fact
By David O'Brien
December 9, 2008 8:21 PM | Link to this
Just got back from talking to Wren, and the AFL release came out while I was up there. In case it hasn’t been mentioned here, Tommy Hanson was MVP of the Fall League, first pitcher to win the award.
He was here today, Bowman saw him in the lobby, but they didn’t announce it early enough for us to even get over to the press conference.
Frank said they’ll be open-minded about him this spring, but that if he’s at Gwinnett to begin season they’re comfortable with that.
Either way, sounds like Atlanta fans will see him, either at Turner or up at Gwinnett.
Oh, and PIRATES are asking the moon for all their guys, so don’t expect anything to come out of that.
Both Wren and Dayton Moore said today that they’ve not once discussed a Francoeur-to-K.C. trade.
By MiamiBeachBravesFan
December 9, 2008 8:23 PM | Link to this
AGAIN, too many missing pieces to start making trades or wasting money. The Javier Vasquez trade was decent; now we have a serviceable rotation. Let’s not go stupid here by trading Escobar; who are you going to sign that’s better, and who’s in the minor league pipeline that can replace him for 2010 (since we already screwed the pooch by trading Elvis Andrus in the Teixeira debacle).
Let’s stand pat and play with what we got this year. Focus on player development and see what 2010 offers. Contrary to the recent dis on AJC by Furman Bisher, the minor league talent is there; we have to commit to making those guys stick with the big club. Not gonna do it if you keep trading players away. Nothing wrong with a Matt Diaz/Brandon Jones platoon. Nothing wrong with a Vasquez-Glavine- Jurrjens-Morton-Hanson rotation for a season (with the strong possibility of others within the organization filling the last two spots in the rotation.
Did we learn nothing from the Teixeira and J.D. Drew trades? They won’t sign with Atlanta just because we’re Atlanta and Bobby is a great guy to play for. Burnett will teach that lesson again, albeit at zero cost to Atlanta, when he signs with the Yanks for more dough.
Frank Wren has to understand that the Burnett’s and Sabbathia’s of the world will not come to Atlanta as long as the Yanks, BoSox, Angels, Dodgers, and (possibly, I dunno since the Tribune filed for bankruptcy protection) Cubs wave BIG dollar bills ya’ll.
Develop, develop, develop!!!
By David O'Brien
December 9, 2008 8:25 PM | Link to this
Burnett’s agent said he’s not going to sign during these meetings….
Here’s something from Glavine off an XM Home Plate radio interview this morning, when asked about how he’s doing and whether he’s going to make it back, etc:
“So far it’s been good. In a lot of ways I feel better right now than I have in a long, long time. The winter workout programs are going well. I feel good. I feel strong and I started throwing last week. I’m doing all this with an eye on trying to play next year but, obviously, there is a lot of uncertainty.
“I don’t know how my arm is going to respond but I’m moving ahead with the intention of trying to pitch next year and, God willing, if my arm feels good then I’m going to give it another go. But if it doesn’t I’m not going to go through what I went through last year with the injuries and all that kind of stuff. It’s just not worth it.
“I’m guessing I’ll have a pretty good idea one way or the other probably in mid-January when I start throwing off the mound as to whether or not it is going to be realistic for me to pitch one more year. But I’m going to try.”
By Plager
December 9, 2008 8:26 PM | Link to this
players.
Paul Maholm is intriguing. The young lefty has razor-sharp command of a deep arsenal of pitches. He throws his fastball, change-up, curve and slider for first-pitch strikes and knows how to pitch. His fastball isn’t overpowering, but has learned to throw his sinker for strikes more consistently and mixes in his three other pitches effectively. He has quietly become the Pirates ace, which makes me doubt the validity of these rumors. Cooch
what site did you steal that off of without giviong credit ?
By Bad hat harry
December 9, 2008 8:30 PM | Link to this
No one can question the great things former GM J.S. did for the team, but as we look back at it, the Tex trade may rank as one of the worst trades of all time. Many teams are just one of these trade away from a season like the Rays just had, the winner in one of these trades and the Nats the loser in many,
One could argue as a fan I know almost nothing about being a GM. And perhaps that is true but one thing I do know is never ever trade top pitching prospects. As much as I hated to trade Flowers for an average, the trade trade actually illustrated the point. The only sure way to have a solid pitching staff is to grow them at home. The Braves were very lucky with Mad Dog, but how many future hall of fame pictures are free agents.
Well for those that don’t already know meet the number on player Neftali Feliz( not just picture) in the Rangers org.
Can you image him and Hanson 1 and 2 in a rotation. All for a one year Scott Boras rental. You would have thought the wainright, Drew debacle would have been fair warning. Truthfully how many mistakes of this magnitude and a team with stand. ( I am even going to go into the other 4 prospects we gave up)
Neftali Feliz The Future: With perhaps the most overpowering fastball in the minors and the makings of two quality offspeed pitches, Feliz has a chance to be a legitimate No. 1 starter. Rather than pitch in winter ball, he worked out at the Rangers’ academy in the Dominican Republic, and he’ll get a look in big league camp in spring training. He’ll probably open 2009 back in the minors, with a callup to Texas possible in the second half.
By David O'Brien
December 9, 2008 8:31 PM | Link to this
Folks, until you hear John Smoltz say he’s looking at other teams, don’t believe it. I’m sure they’re doing their due diligence, trying to make sure Braves at least keep in mind that other teams would be interested if they tried to low-ball Smoltz or whatever.
But Smoltz made it perfeclty clear, when I wrote something about that NY Daily News story that quoted one of his agents saying he’d have other options, Smoltz came out afterward on local TV and radio saying he fully expected to work out a contract with the Braves this winter and that he’s never said anything to indicate he’s looking to leave Atlanta, that he wants to finish his career there, etc.
And Wren has made it perfectly clear, as well as Bobby this week, that they are thinking of Smoltz being back in the rotation. Wren’s said all along that Braves want Smoltz back if he’s going to be able to pitch.
By David O'Brien
December 9, 2008 8:33 PM | Link to this
Wren also said that while Ohman’s not off the board, it’s taken a backseat to other priorities since the Braves got Logan and O’Flaherty.
By Reality
December 9, 2008 8:34 PM | Link to this
Is it just me, or are Maholm and Snell actually nothing special? Did I miss the memo stating “Maholm is an ace and the Pirates can demand 90% of a Peavy-type return”?
By winthrop09
December 9, 2008 8:36 PM | Link to this
DOB-if worse comes to worse, and we dont get any big name players. what are the chances we save the money til next offseason and go after free agents then, and do you know off hand the big name players that would be free agents next year?
By Joe M.
December 9, 2008 8:39 PM | Link to this
Is it just me, or have the Winter Meetings been surprisingly lame as of now? Feels like they had a lot more real rumors and action in years past.
More (Rotoworld):
The Diamondbacks and Braves have reportedly dicussed swapping Conor Jackson and Kelly Johnson, but there was no indication that either team seriously considered the trade. bThe Braves need a left fielder, and the Diamondbacks have an opening at second base. However, both teams would prefer to those holes without surrendering such talented players.
AZCentral:
We’ve heard the Diamondbacks and Braves have discussed a Conor Jackson for Kelly Johnson swap. Doesn’t sound like it has any momentum, but it has been discussed. Presumably the Braves would put Jackson in the outfield. Johnson would solve the Diamondbacks’ second base woes.
By The Goche
December 9, 2008 8:42 PM | Link to this
Oh, and PIRATES are asking the moon for all their guys, so don’t expect anything to come out of that. DOB
Shocking…who ever heard of the Pirates overvaluing their players.
It’s like that team is run by a blog…”You want McLouth? You can have him for Hanson, McCann and the ‘92 NLCS trophy.”
I mean it’s one thing for fans to overvalue their players (and we are as guilty as any team’s fans), but this guy is supposed to be a professional.
By Nelson
December 9, 2008 8:42 PM | Link to this
DOB Any truth to the Conor Jackson for KJ?
Sounds too good to be true
http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/NickPiecoro/41018
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
December 9, 2008 8:43 PM | Link to this
Seriously, I really think FW should check in with Towers…I hate Towers and how he has handled this whole thing, and we all know he would be blabbing to the press, but we need an ace. Period. Can’t compete next year without one. I was confident that AJ was coming, but I really think CC is going to sign somewhere else, and when that happens; the Yanks will overpay.
By Reality
December 9, 2008 8:46 PM | Link to this
No one can question the great things former GM J.S. did for the team, but as we look back at it, the Tex trade may rank as one of the worst trades of all time.
Dude, at least wait until one of the players traded for Teixeira has some extended and real success at the major league level before declaring it “one of the worst trades of all time.” Get a grip.
By TexasBrave
December 9, 2008 8:49 PM | Link to this
Wren also said that while Ohman’s not off the board, it’s taken a backseat to other priorities since the Braves got Logan and O’Flaherty.
DOB does this mean that the initial offer to Ohman has been taken back or can Ohman still accept it, not that he will.
By Ron in mobile
December 9, 2008 8:50 PM | Link to this
Bad hat harry
Without the Drew debacle we dont make the postseason in 04.
Wainwright is a great pitcher when healthy, but JD put up a career year for us
By csg
December 9, 2008 8:52 PM | Link to this
Conor Jackson and Kelly Johnson are basically the same type hitter. Conor strikes out a little less and is RH. How is this the big bat that we needed? All we’re basically doing is adding Prado to our lineup
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
December 9, 2008 8:53 PM | Link to this
Didn’t the D-backs refuse to include Conor for Tex? But, now they are going to trade him for KJ?
By Daybed Wagmoe
December 9, 2008 8:58 PM | Link to this
…to the Reds for Ryan Freel (mercifully eliminating him from further Braves/MIB blog comments)DOB
I wouldn’t be so sure. Just watch — the blog comments are going to work under the assumption that the Orioles will flip Freel to Atlanta.
Congrats Tommy Hanson!!
By Joe M.
December 9, 2008 8:59 PM | Link to this
Sounds too good to be true
No. Francoeur for Greinke was too good to be true, Jackson for Johnson is fairly even trade. They’re the same age. Johnson plays a more premium position. Jackson’s 2008 was slightly better offensively, but Johnson’s 2007 was better than Jackson (both Jackson’s 2007 and 2008).
Pretty even swap.
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
December 9, 2008 9:03 PM | Link to this
Dear plager, SHUT YOUR DAMN PIE HOLE.
I dug through more than thirty articles, scouting reports and career information to put that post together. Glad you appreciated it, now go screw yourself.
By Lew
December 9, 2008 9:04 PM | Link to this
Tomas-Whatever. If you seriously think that Wigginton, who has played less than 50 ML games in the outfield is our best bet for a left fielder and that the Cubs will sign Peavy and then turn around and trade their best pitcher who they just signed to a HUGE contract about a year ago, then I will no longer try to convince you that you are delusional. Hallucinate away, My Man. I wish you well in Dimension X.
Oh and BTW-You DID mention signing Tazawa and you mentioned the terms of three years and $15 million. I’m sure someone could find the post if they tried. I’m not going to bother-my memory is fine.
By Lew
December 9, 2008 9:12 PM | Link to this
Goche-If not the NLCS trphy, I wonder if I re-drew the Sid Slid play and put him back in a Pirates uni if they’d go for it instead?
By Bryan from Kansas ( Go KU )
December 9, 2008 9:17 PM | Link to this
David,
This may wind up being a dumb question, but would it ever come to the point where Wren would go into a meeting with Burnett’s agent and say ” Ok What do we have to do do get this done tonite?” I know there are other teams out there, but if what I have read is true, that he respects the heck out of Bobby and has always liked the Braves organization, why couldnt that happen?
By Smoky Joe Wood
December 9, 2008 9:17 PM | Link to this
While I’m holding out hope for AJ, like everybody, I think the bigger need may be OF. With the positive news on Smoltz, we could have a pretty good top 3 of Smoltz, Jair, and Vazquez. You can round out the rotation with Jo Jo and Morton, who should be primed to take the next step. Plus you have Campillo and (at some point) Glavine. And you certainly don’t want to block Hanson if he’s ready. And Chuck James is a serviceable fallback… potentially. You never have enough starters, but hey—that’s nine of ‘em!
Contrast that with the status quo in the OF. No pop and very unproven. There’s the bigger Achilles heel. Brandon Jones didn’t look like a player last year, although we shouldn’t give up on him yet; Diaz is best-suited to a platoon. Neither is a power guy. Schafer/Blanco/Anderson—all unproven, and certainly no power. Francouer—we all hope he bounces back, but what if he doesn’t?
That’s why I think an Ankiel or a Raul Ibanez is more important than A.J., who could handcuff you in terms of salary if his injury history continues. If only the Bucs had gone through with that Jason Bay trade last year!
By AtlSlugger
December 9, 2008 9:19 PM | Link to this
Yo!!! Kevin Towers… YOU SUCK!!!
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
December 9, 2008 9:25 PM | Link to this
*Smoky Joe Wood *, dude…Raul Ibanez or Ankiel do not come close to offering up what an ace type pitcher does…all things being equal (staying healthy, etc).
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
December 9, 2008 9:26 PM | Link to this
Wren called Towers yet? (:
By Anders
December 9, 2008 9:28 PM | Link to this
I’m picturing Leslie Neilsen playing Frank Wren in the movie version of “The 2009 Winter Meetings”.
“I sure picked a bad year to be shopping for an ace starter!”
BTW- For those of you who said that K-Rod is over rated, keep in mind he had more saves last season than Soriano and Gonzo have combined in their careers.
Next up for the Mets. John Garland I hope. The guys an innings eater. The value of those types of pitchers have been well documented on this blog.
By Frank
December 9, 2008 9:28 PM | Link to this
While being a HUGE Braves fan and also living in Kansas, I follow the Royals as well.
I think it would do wonders for Frenchy’s confidence if he were moved to Kansas City. He’d like playing in Kauffman Stadium and wearing Royal’s Blue and would definately be an upgrade over their OF production in a long time.
The Royals are headed in the right direction.
By Jim
December 9, 2008 9:34 PM | Link to this
I love how SKANKS cons people into paying for his website and he is never ever right about anything. He will just say “a deal is coming up but I can’t give out that info yet” and then if it doesn’t happen he will say “oh it must have fell through”. Or if a deal does happen he will post it at the same time as AJC and say he broke the story.
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
December 9, 2008 9:37 PM | Link to this
I will say one thing about Towers…if he and Hendry were able to get 4 teams involved and the Pads get back 5 players (none as good as Escobar), then he at least accomplished what he set out to do. Will we be able to say the same thing about FW?
By Steve McP
December 9, 2008 9:38 PM | Link to this
Hey Anders - it was Lloyd Bridges not Leslie Nielsen that used the “I picked the wrong week to give up……..”in the movie Airplane
By Thundersticks
December 9, 2008 9:38 PM | Link to this
DOB
I know the Braves are reluctant to go 5 years on AJ but will in order to get the deal done. If the Yankees are willing to do so also, would Wren consider adding a team option for a sixth year? Not a vesting option, but one the team controls. Just a thought.
By McFann O –[zzz]
December 9, 2008 9:41 PM | Link to this
Reality Is it just me, or are Maholm and Snell actually nothing special?
Nothing special? Snell? Ah, you’re kidding, for sure!
What about August 1, 2006?
Or July 13, 2007?
Or March 31, 2008? (OK, maybe they ended up losing that one…)
Or May 9, 2008? (lost that one, too…)
Sorry, can’t link…
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
December 9, 2008 9:42 PM | Link to this
DOB, there are a few rumors floating around that the Braves are in advanced discussions with the ChiSox about Dye…they can’t take on Dye’s contract and AJ, can they?
By Bad hat harry
December 9, 2008 9:43 PM | Link to this
Reality I used the word “may”. I could wait until Feliz wins a cy young but its kind of old news at that point. The idea is to make a comment that is not the same thing everyone else writes. By the way thanks for the insightful comment on… actually never mind it wasn’t you.
With regard to Wainright I think J.S. himself will tell you the trade was a big mistake.
By Marty
December 9, 2008 9:44 PM | Link to this
Anders - I hope you get Jon Garland, too. That would be great for us.
By Anders
December 9, 2008 9:47 PM | Link to this
Steve McP
You’re absolutely correct. Guess I picked the wrong night to give up my memory pills.
You got the idea though.
By Tomas
December 9, 2008 9:49 PM | Link to this
Lew, here it is Tazawa. What I said was 3yrs 12 million something like that, which I thought was what they were offering, when I saw that they had offered him 4-6 million. I thought that was per year, certainly I did not know it was a signing bonus, and I have never seen him pitch(only saw the youtube video), but I was not saying they should give them that money. I thought that was what they were offering him. It was a guess I was just trying to estimate how much money would Junichi Tazawa, Jake Peavy, Rafael Furcal, and Aj Burnett would demand. GUESSING by what had been reported.
Again I misinterpret what had been reported on Tazawa.
By Anders
December 9, 2008 9:56 PM | Link to this
Marty
Take a look at Garlands numbers over the last 5 years. How do they compare to the vaunted Vasquez?
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
December 9, 2008 9:59 PM | Link to this
From Ed Price at Fox:
“heets less risky than Burnett?
While A.J. Burnett is getting a lot of the attention and Ben Sheets’ offers seem to be on a lower scale, Sheets could be less of a health risk between the two free-agent pitchers.
Over the past eight seasons, Sheets has made 30 more starts than Burnett (221 to 191) and pitched 175 2/3 more innings.
Sheets pitched through a torn forearm muscle down the stretch in 2008, and his performance suffered, but he is said to be completely healed. — Ed Price”
Bravos may have to at least check in. They CAN NOT be shutout regarding pitchers. If a 2 year deal can land Sheets (yanks reported are preparing such a deal), we should at least give it a look see…
By Over Rated
December 9, 2008 10:03 PM | Link to this
No doubt AJ is the best option out there for the Braves. Since the Yanks are seeing that CC might be slipping away, they are likely to trump Atlanta’s offer to AJ. If CC signs with someone besides the Yanks, I will guarantee the Yanks will outbid Atlanta for Burnett. Why do you think AJ’s agent said he wouldn’t sign this week? They’re hoping CC signs and then the price for AJ will go up likely causing a bidding war. It’s just good business and can only increase the size of the offers for AJ.
I do think it’s funny that since AJ is one of the better pitchers on the FA market this year, he’s suddenly become an ACE! He’s never been an ACE! He ain’t even the ACE on the team he’s leaving! Does he have the stuff to be an ACE? Sure, but he also has had some head problems AND the inability to go long stretches without being on the DL. A guy has a spotty career based on W-L record, ERA and trips to the DL and then suddenly has one complete, solid year, BOOM! He’s a god! He’s an ACE!
I know the Braves need pitching and I know they need rotation guys. But I won’t be heartbroken if they don’t guarantee 5 years to a guy who hasn’t proven he can pitch 2 consecutive years without major DL time.
What other plans do the Braves have if they can’t land AJ? I don’t know, but I think I would rather see if they could pull a rabbit out of their hat rather than sign AJ for five years.
By Mikeyy
December 9, 2008 10:05 PM | Link to this
csg you are wayyy wrong on your kelly johnson comparison to connar jackson. connar is much much less streaky and hits for more homeruns. plus he fills our gap in outfield and prado / infante are great hitting middle infield. i would not mind one bit if johnson goes for jackson please someone else agree with me he is the man!! plus we can end up saving escobar if we do this trade and please wren get aj his money so we can get all this done now!!
By winterville
December 9, 2008 10:11 PM | Link to this
Anders
Aside from wins and losses, you are right, Garland and Vazquez don’t compare. It is obvious that Vazquez is the superior pitcher. He K’s more, BB’s less and allows less hits. Why don’t YOU check the stats from the last five years. Throw out the arbitrary stat of W-L and then tell me which pitcher is better.
By Randy
December 9, 2008 10:14 PM | Link to this
Interesting comment—Sorry I don’t have the computer acumen to link a site—Go to Palm Beach Post.com, then sports, and then Joe Capozzi’s story about the Las Vegas meetings. Go to last two paragraphs of the story and read San francisco Giants’ Managing General Partner’s comments about Scott Boras. To paraphrase he said “Scott Boras can say whatever he wants and then go back to Mars and work on his stats”. The whole story is very interesting. It may give another explanation for what is going on at the meetings.
By MattyRoss
December 9, 2008 10:15 PM | Link to this
DOB Couldn’t help but notice that your 6:11 post was in the past tense. Freudian slip? (side note:that always sounded like a men’s nightgown to me) Are you thinking AJ to the Braves is past the peak of its probability?
If the Braves were able to land Burnett, they would have added two guys…
By Marty
December 9, 2008 10:17 PM | Link to this
Anders - I have looked at Garland’s numbers, and I have compared them to Vazquez’s as well. Garland is so far inferior it’s just plain silly.
For example, did you know that Garland allowed the second most hits of anyone in the AL last season, and led the league in that category in 2006? His career WHIP of 1.39 is also significantly worse than Vazquez’s, and Garland can’t strike anyone out at all.
Allow me to share Keith Law’s opinion of Garland:
Garland should have “AVOID” tattooed on his forehead, as everything about his stuff and performance is pointing downward. He has never had an out pitch, and his stuff was more ordinary than usual this year.
He was sitting 88-92 with a mostly straight fastball, a fringy slider in the low-80s and a hard changeup that keeps lefties from destroying him, although they still hit him hard. In 2008, his strikeout rate dropped, his walk rate increased, his home run rate increased and, of course, his ERA spiked, even though the defense behind him was better than the one he left with the White Sox. He brings one thing to the table in his durability, as he has gone seven straight seasons with at least 190 innings pitched. But Barry Zito’s best attribute when he went to San Francisco was his durability too.
By Bo
December 9, 2008 10:21 PM | Link to this
For 7 or 8 weeks the Braves have waited for Peavy and now AJ. We’ll probably lose out to both. Just heard on ESPN SportCenter that the Cubs-and Peavy deal was not close anymore. Maybe Wren needs to revisit Mr. Tower and stay till a deal is done. A little effort may go along way for both partys=they need each other. Damn what a team with Peavy and AJ plus what we already got. 740 Comments.
By BlogPolice
December 9, 2008 10:22 PM | Link to this
You’re a seemingly nice person and never have anything bad to say about anyone and I respect you for that. But realistic and rationally well informed? Uh Uh. No way. Lew
LOL! Just when you think Lew couldn’t be a bigger jerk.
By Iron Labrum
December 9, 2008 10:24 PM | Link to this
CNN is reporting that Towers will trade Peavy to Chicago in exchange for Obama’s vacated Senate seat.
By Joe M.
December 9, 2008 10:25 PM | Link to this
connar is much much less streaky
Streaky or not (and I don’t know if Jackson is or not), their offensive stats look pretty much the same.
and hits for more homeruns
Kelly Johnson: 16 homeruns in 2007; 12 homeruns in 2008
Conor Jackson: 15 homeruns in 2007; 12 homeruns in 2008
By Voice of Reason
December 9, 2008 10:25 PM | Link to this
*Padres general manager Kevin Towers said Tuesday that he continues to move closer to a deal that would send right-hander Jake Peavy to the Cubs.
The teams spoke again on Tuesday, and both expect to know by the end of the winter meetings whether they can reach an agreement.
“We’ve made progress, but we’ve still got work to do,” Towers said. “Nothing is imminent.”
The Cubs might need to do most of the work; they need to trade right- hander Jason Marquis to create payroll flexibility, and they also are pursuing a left-handed hitting outfielder separate from their discussions on Peavy.
The teams have discussed expanding the trade to include the Phillies as a third club. However, the Phillies reported minimal progress on all fronts Tuesday.
Even if the Padres and Cubs agreed on players, the deal might not be finalized until the Cubs received approval from their new owner, who has yet to be selected.*
Is it just me, or didn’t it take a long time for the Braves’ new ownership to make it through the MLB ringer? How does it work that Chicago can just “select a new owner”? Am I missing something?
By Robert
December 9, 2008 10:28 PM | Link to this
Re Greg Maddux and “And yes, there was that penchant for sick humor and practical jokes”
…. as illustrated by his thanking Bobby Cox for everything he (Cox) taught Greg about the game of baseball
But seriously - We all learn from our mistakes. Since Greg Maddux made so few of them, I guess he learned from Bobby’s
Carry on. Nothing to discuss here until Donk is out of the picture
By Voice of Reason
December 9, 2008 10:30 PM | Link to this
By Iron Labrum December 9, 2008 10:24 PM | Link to this CNN is reporting that Towers will trade Peavy to Chicago in exchange for Obama’s vacated Senate seat.
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!
That is priceless… absolutely awesome…
By Thundersticks
December 9, 2008 10:35 PM | Link to this
Here’s my recommendation to Wren:
Sign Sheets to a 3-year deal with a team option for a fourth year. (He will be much cheaper and will be able to reenter the market for another deal.)
Sign Smoltz and/or Glavine if they can pitch.
Sign Ohman & Norton.
Trade Morton/Reyes & Blanco/Anderson to CWS for Dye.
Rotation: Sheets, Vazquez, Jurrjens, Smoltz/Glavine/Morton/Reyes/Hanson.
Lineup: Blanco/Anderson/Schafer, Escobar, Chipper, Dye, MaCann, Franceour, Kotchman, Johnson.
Bullpen: Soriano, Gonzalez, Moylan, Boyer, Ohman, Campillo, and O’Flaherty/Logan.
These moves would fit in the budget, won’t tie up the franchise with long-term deals, gives us flexibility (plenty of in-house options in case of injuries), and allows our young pitchers to develop a little more. As excited as I am to see Hanson, I believe he could use a little more time in the minors to perfect his new pitch before being exposed to MLB hitters.
By tlj
December 9, 2008 10:36 PM | Link to this
I’m kinda bummed out, it doesn’t appear we will be getting AJ. He is waiting to see to sign with the yankees or red sox. The only way he signs here is if no one else offers a 5 year contract. He used the braves to get the other teams involved.
Let’s see no Peavy, no Burnette, no Grienke, no McCain, etc.
Maybe we are going at this all wrong. Instead of offering big dollars or our prospects maybe we should go with with what we have (JJ, Vasquez, Campilo). Then sign one or of the less expensive pitchers (Johnson, Penny, etc) to a 1 year contract and round out the staff with Smoltz and/or Glavine. If they aren’t ready use the kids (Morton, Jo Jo, Hanson, Melden).
Let’s get an outfielder and go from there
Save the money and use it for the draft and international scouting. Let’s shoot for 2010. We will have Hudson back, Hanson will be ready to step in as full time member of the rotation, Vasquez will have one more year and JJ. Schafer should be ready to step in as the full time CF (if not before). Hopefully Frenchy will turn it around this year and be ready for a good season in 2010.
Every year after that we will have members from our minor system ready to step up and be a part of the major league team. Let’s simply build from within and maintain our players.
With this economy some of the teams (not named yankees, red sox, mets) will start losing money from attendance, advertising, etc and will start dumping salary. If any interest us we will be ready to steal them.
Any thoughts?
By dbraves
December 9, 2008 10:37 PM | Link to this
DOB Thanks for all your hard work!
By Heath
December 9, 2008 10:40 PM | Link to this
I can’t see the Braves trading KJ straighy up for Conor Jackson. KJ plays at a more premium position than Jackson and if a 2B and a OF have similar offensive numbers, then you have to say that the 2B has more value. DOB, if there have been discussions of a trade with AZ, shouldn’t we expect someone else in return? A few mid-level pitching prospects? Even if get that too, is that really worth it? The addition of Conor Jackson just doesn’t seem like it helps the Braves…in fact, I would say that it hurts them if some other major league ready player comes in return.
By Heath
December 9, 2008 10:40 PM | Link to this
I can’t see the Braves trading KJ straighy up for Conor Jackson. KJ plays at a more premium position than Jackson and if a 2B and a OF have similar offensive numbers, then you have to say that the 2B has more value. DOB, if there have been discussions of a trade with AZ, shouldn’t we expect someone else in return? A few mid-level pitching prospects? Even if get that too, is that really worth it? The addition of Conor Jackson just doesn’t seem like it helps the Braves…in fact, I would say that it hurts them if some other major league ready player comes in return.
By Wayne in Utah
December 9, 2008 10:40 PM | Link to this
As are you Joebrave. As are you.
By Vic Correll
December 9, 2008 10:42 PM | Link to this
I say Wren guarantees AJ through 2020. Even if he only makes 20 starts Wren can say he got something done and mollify the Bloggers. C’mon, FW just do it. We got some assets. CNN Center, Bicentennial Park, Georgia Dome, Emory University Hospital. Just get it done! If yankees outbid us, it will only be the result of Yankees going to Bloomberg and asking for another bond float. At that point we just have to concede. I do believe as taxpayers we all get to attend Met games at the new “CITI” Field. Only in America.
By kirkinga
December 9, 2008 10:50 PM | Link to this
I think Frank Wren is doing a fine job. It hasn’t been an eventful offseason to this point, but the Braves seem to be in talks that would address their needs.
There are plenty of fans in other cities that would love to see their team linked to possible significant moves.
Some suggested that the Braves had to acquire Peavy because there just weren’t any other good choices out there. But then came the Burnett offer. and with the Greinke possibility we now see that there are other starters to be had out there.
I get the feeling the Braves feel an urgency to make more moves, but they aren’t going to act desperately and give away too much.
By nolie
December 9, 2008 10:50 PM | Link to this
Wren also said that while Ohman’s not off the board, it’s taken a backseat to other priorities since the Braves got Logan and O’Flaherty DOB
wow, there’s a big surprise
By richbrave
December 9, 2008 11:00 PM | Link to this
SMOKEY JOE WOOD:
I wouldn’t lean on the CHUCK JAMES reed very hard. He didn’t do so well in the minors last year.
What do we actually have in the way of SP under contract with some ML experience and physically ready right now. Apologies for anyone in that catagory I inadvertantly left out. Lets see - JURRJENS, VASQUEZ, CAMPILLO, MORTON, and REYES. YIKES. Where’s that BURNETT offer sheet.????
By plager
December 9, 2008 11:00 PM | Link to this
I dug through more than thirty articles, scouting reports and career information to put that post together. Glad you appreciated it, now go screw yourself. Cooch
but you stated it in such a tone as to make it seem like you already had all that knowledge well in mind. You are a farce, you do that same crap all the time trying to sound like you are an expert.
By rainman
December 9, 2008 11:00 PM | Link to this
well if nothing else at least we know that hanson is realy a beast and has a great chance to form one of the best young one two combos with jj. maybe the no trade of morton and jojo become blessings and they become solid pros. we still have to find a bat though no doubt about that.
By DCbrave
December 9, 2008 11:05 PM | Link to this
Wren also said that while Ohman’s not off the board, it’s taken a backseat to other priorities since the Braves got Logan and O’Flaherty DOB wow, there’s a big surprise- Nolie
For some reason I have a bad feeling about Ohman’s 09 season: whoever was overused by Cox one year usually had a horrible year the next either with the Braves or with another team.
By Gone Viral
December 9, 2008 11:05 PM | Link to this
I second dbraves’ sentiment about DOB. We don’t say that enough on here.
By plager
December 9, 2008 11:06 PM | Link to this
. The idea is to make a comment that is not the same thing everyone else writes. Bad Hat
LOL. Bad Hat you are late then with your insightful-ness. That has been said any number of times over the last year. It pays to be at least current with your cutting edge insights.
By Chop Chop
December 9, 2008 11:09 PM | Link to this
Randy,
Here’s the link to the article you’re talking about.
Anders,
In case you’re keeping track (you’re not), Garland has 188 Ks in 405 IP the last two seasons. I really hope he’s taking the mound at Citi Field next season.
By plager
December 9, 2008 11:12 PM | Link to this
csg you are wayyy wrong on your kelly johnson comparison to connar jackson. connar is much much less streaky and hits for more homeruns. plus he fills our gap in outfield and prado / infante are great hitting middle infield. i would not mind one bit if johnson goes for jackson please someone else agree with me he is the man!! Mikeyy
Sorry, no can do man. Kelly has a career OBP+ of 108. Jackson’s is 105. As the previous poster said, not much difference with what little there is in Kelly’s favor.
By David O'Brien
December 9, 2008 11:16 PM | Link to this
Carry on. Nothing to discuss here until Donk is out of the pictureRobert
Good. We’ll talk to you in a year or two.
By Kris in NC
December 9, 2008 11:16 PM | Link to this
Towers is so desperate to “trade” Peavy to the Cubs that the Cubs needs to trade Marquis, bring in at least 1 or 2 more teams to get this deal done plus whoever the Cubs deal Marquis to, the two teams have to figure who is going to pick the majority of Marquis’ contract. Towers had it good with the package Wren offered him, then he wanted more, Wren said NO DEAL and basically walked away.
Cubs are being sold on top of this plus it has been stated that their main priority is and power hitting OF before they get pitching. Hmmm…if getting a Power HItting OF is their main priority then why in the world are they putting all their effort into finding 1 or 2 other teams to swing this deal for Peavy.
As for the Braves, Wren is working the phones, talking to other GM’s in order to get us the players to make this team better. If giving the 5th yr as a guaranteed instead of a vested option to sign Burnett, then do it. I am glad Wren is looking for a power hitting OF without giving up the farm to do it. I wouldn’t touch Ankiel for one reason…SCOTT BORAS. Find someone who has 3 or 4 yrs that we can retain before we come to Free Agency.
I feel like come ST, we will have a competitive team, lead by AJ, JJ and Javy.
By The Real Joebrave
December 9, 2008 11:16 PM | Link to this
Yo Waybe go outside Turd,play in the snow and lick some salt @ZZHOLE..That’s about all there is to do in UGHHHTAH!!!
By The Real Joebrave
December 9, 2008 11:16 PM | Link to this
Yo Waybe go outside Turd,play in the snow and lick some salt @ZZHOLE..That’s about all there is to do in UGHHHTAH!!!
By csg
December 9, 2008 11:17 PM | Link to this
Mikeyy,
no, I would say Im not wrong in my comparision and here is why. Streaky or not, the total career stats dont lie
Conor Jackson, 26 Career - 1525AB .287/.367/.446/.823 8 triples 44HR
Kelly Johnson, 26 Career - 1358AB .273/.356/.440/.795 19 triples 37HR
Kelly plays 2nd base and his numbers in that position are huge. Conor as a LF doesnt have much power or value in my opinion. Kelly avg’s a HR every 36 AB’s and Conor avg a HR every 34 AB’s. Once again they are VERY similar, but Kellys position makes him more valuable. Again I dont make this trade because then all we are doing is adding Prado’s bat and he sucks defensively
By David O'Brien
December 9, 2008 11:19 PM | Link to this
JasonInFla: Does it matter if I say Braves aren’t trying to get Dye? I mean, seriously, I have refuted that at least a half-dozen times in the past week. Once more: From everything I’m told, Braves aren’t trying to trade for Dye.
By Murphy
December 9, 2008 11:23 PM | Link to this
Thank you Iron Labrum. I almost ruined my computer spitting out my drink! Awesome. Well done.
By Gone Viral
December 9, 2008 11:30 PM | Link to this
DOB, you characterized the Pirates’ request of return value for McLouth/Maholm as ridiculously high. Out of curiosity, at this stage of the off-season what is ridiculously high in terms of personnel?
By The Real Joebrave
December 9, 2008 11:33 PM | Link to this
Let’s put it in a very endearing perspective shall we!!! Did J.Shuerholtz make the Braves into a powerhouse??? NO!!! Bobby Cox was the G.M. that Drafted S.Avery,T.Glavine,D.Justice,C.Jones,R.Gant,etal You get the Picture I’m sure.. While J.Shuerholtz, did however complete 3 Great deals,Maddux,Mcgriff,and Grissom. Wren got Ran out of Baltimore for being an Idiot,and now the trend is following Him Here…So he got lucky on Jurrjens.. Maybe Infante,and Ohman.. But what else of substance has this moron accomplished???? Even a blind mouse can find a piece of cheese every now and then!!! 65 million for a pitcher that will Most Definitely be on the D.L. multiple times. Not Good..Not Good at all!! Playing footsie with Towers for 7 weeks instead of saying cram Peavy!!! Now here comes the Raping of the Farm!!! I said 4 Years ago that Shuerholtz and his Cronies were gonna make this team the Royals of the South!!! Now look:last Year started the season with 2 ver the Hill plus 40 pitchers,all the while I’m screaming He11 no to Glavine!!! Depending on Hampton(given no other choice due to contract restrictions)Blatantly the Fault of Homoboy upstairs!!!! People here Criticize Bobby Cox, but let me tell ya it was Bobby that started it all when He was the G.M.,and Bobby ought to take one of them New Knees and bury it so far up Wren’s backside that he tastes Shoe leather, if that Mental Midget Gives Burnett 5 years… I say back away,Maybe get a Baker,Slowey,Edwin Jackson, and Yes even a Maholm, sign a Sheets for far less than Bunghole Burnett will cost I’m sure,and get back to what Brung Ya to the Dance!!! So forgive me Waynein Ugghtah If I ruffled You’re Wren loving feathers,But folks I tell Ya Wren aint gonna cut it!!! That boy just has the Wrong legacy!!Look no further than Baltimore…… Bad decisions can RUIN a team for Years. That’s Shuerholtz’ legacy in K.C. just ask Lonnie Smith, and the K.C. fans.and check on the Folks in altimore and see how they feel about Wren!!!
By GTgirl
December 9, 2008 11:34 PM | Link to this
On Baseball Tonight this afternoon, Peter Gammons reported that “the Braves are the frontrunner” to sign AJ and he was being told that the Braves have told AJ’s agent that if AJ agrees to come to ATL and picth that they will guarantee the 5th year… (Didn’t say anything about money)
By The Real Joebrave
December 9, 2008 11:37 PM | Link to this
Maybe Milwaukee sucks it up,and loses their mind and decides to give up Hart for peanuts!!! I know that there are detractors here for Hart, but his splits say he was better on the Road last year than at Miller Park!!!
By Gone Viral
December 9, 2008 11:40 PM | Link to this
“o he got lucky on Jurrjens.. Maybe Infante,and Ohman.. But what else of substance has this moron accomplished?”
So, he’s made a great trade and a sublime trade in only one year on the job and you don’t think that’s phenomenal? How odd.
By Wayne in Utah
December 9, 2008 11:41 PM | Link to this
joeazzholethebrave (cause his identity is hidden, but who secretly is afraid of women or anything that moves in the night)
Yessir, I have played in the snow today, but didn’t go down to lick the salt yet. Besides those two things, you are right, we have absolutely nothing to do. No reason for such a smart guy like yourself to ever come and visit.
Damned ugly, I would say. Bryce and Zions are highly overrated, and who gives a dang about dry powder snow anyway. Who would ever like a place like that anyway.
Where is it you live now???
And did I forget to add, “Have a nice day!”
By BravesFanChris24
December 9, 2008 11:43 PM | Link to this
I read on NY based site that I got from MLB Trade Rumors and it said that apparently Yanks are inching closer to sign CC after meeting with CC and his wife about living arrangements while he plays in NY. Hopefully it happens, so Braves can get Burnett.
By Pirates of NL East
December 9, 2008 11:47 PM | Link to this
MLB.com’s Mark Bowman says the Reds “may have some interest in Jeff Francoeur.” However, the Braves don’t want to move him.
Wanting to keep Francoeur but trade Escobar/KJ. WTF is wrong with this team?
By richbrave
December 9, 2008 11:50 PM | Link to this
GONE VIRAL:
TOMMY HANSON, who else.?.
By Blair
December 9, 2008 11:55 PM | Link to this
Hey DOB, I read the blog first time interacting on this blog.
If the Braves were to miss out on Burnett, would they then make an offer to Sheets? I realize he has had serious injury issues, but he is an ace and he is looking to prove he can stay healthy. I think it could worth the risk if the Braves come up short on AJ.
I would bet Atlanta has a serious interest in resigning Mike Gonzalez. That had to be the Cardinals wet dream scenario. I would think Boyer and Prado would be more than enough compensation for Ankiel, who has but one year on his contract. Have the Braves inquired about Alex Rios? That dude is a freakin’ stud.
By 18 Wheels of Love
December 9, 2008 11:57 PM | Link to this
Pirates of NL East: Yeah, that’s a weird one. Seems to me it would be easier to replace a corner OF’er. I say get as much value for him now…as in to KC to try and get Greinke. But that is just me.
By The Real Joebrave
December 10, 2008 12:02 AM | Link to this
Wayne 86 miles north of Atlanta,in the Beautiful North Ga. Mountains, with might i add a very beautiful family!!! You sir should really think beore that crazy blind snow drift messes with Your train of thought… Never have I had Ire with You,in fact always courteous enough to ask how You and Yours were, much like Lew,Savannah Guy,Carolina Lady etal… Yes I am that Same Joebrave!!! However I spent my time in the Salt Flats, the Nevada desert,and San Diego area, as well as Italy, Bahrain,Amsterdam,and Operation Desert Storm!!! So Yep I know just where You are, and How Beautiful it is there in the Spring and Fall, but in the Winter,well Ughh!!! Gnight to You sir maybe You’ll feel betta in tha Morn!!!
By Wayne in Utah
December 10, 2008 12:04 AM | Link to this
Joebrave Now, all kidding and name calling aside, how long was it Schuerholz was in charge. Took him a long time to ruin it, huh? Just so happened that the decline of the Braves coincided with the lowering of the payroll.
Now, I am certainly no expert (the Braves do not call me for suggestions as to how to run the team), but if I remember correctly, in Baltimore, FW had a very meddling owner, who made it hard for him to run things. Undermining him on ocassion.
So, as for me and my household here in UGGHTAH (ever been here?), we are going to continue being Braves fans, and hope that FW’s decisions from this point on are as good as the one’s he has made so far, which in my opinion is pretty good.
So, if you just want to drone on (without paragraphs, by the way) in a negative manner, be my guest. If you want to have meaningful conversations via the blog, I would suggest tone down the rhetoric.
Your starting to sound like another Scott Borus.
By Marty
December 10, 2008 12:10 AM | Link to this
Wren was only the GM in Baltimore for one year, genius. Obviously, it’s impossible for a GM to prove anything in that short of a period.
By Local Ownership Needed
December 10, 2008 12:11 AM | Link to this
Fellow denizens…wake up and smell the coffee. The Braves are just going to continue to decompose. Oh, yeah, sure you can say that the present ownership has this huge payroll and all. Three years now and we haven’t been in the playoffs. If Liberty Media was so great, then why the hell haven’t we been to the playoffs? Yeah..injuries were a problem last year..but what about the previous 2 years? The best thing that could happen to the Braves would be if Liberty Media would sell the Braves to someone like Arthur Blank who would pour money into the organization and make them competitive again and get rid of the dead wood like Bobby Cox and get a more competent general manager than Frank Wren. Look at what Blank has done with the Falcons. They’re a real football team. How can anyone argue with that? All you here is about how the Braves are trying to get better by signing “past-their-prime” players like Vasquez and wanting to go after Burnett. And to top it all off…to be obsessive with a tool named Peavy who is nothing more than a male diva with an attitude who doesn’t care anything about coming to Atlanta. The Braves already gave up some key talent to get Vasquez, now they’re wanting to give up more for some more dead wood. I don’t think they are going to be satisfied until they get Escobar traded. That will prove to be a huge mistake. The direction the Braves are going in is not a good one. I guess I’ll just wait for some sarcastic responses now.
By David O'Brien
December 10, 2008 12:13 AM | Link to this
csg you are wayyy wrong on your kelly johnson comparison to connar jackson. connar is much much less streaky and hits for more homeruns.Mikeyy
Really, Mikeyy? Let’s examine.
Kelly Johnson, who doesn’t play what’s considered a power-hitting position, has 37 homers in 1358 at-bats, or one every 36.7 at-bats.
Conor Jackson, who does play what are expected to be power-hitting positions (1B, 3B, OF), has 44 homers in 1525 at-bats, or one every 34.7 at-bats.
That’s a negligible difference, and Conor’s .443 slugging percentage is virtually identical to Kelly’s (.440).
Over the past two seasons, Kelly has 109 extra-base hits (16 triples, 28 homers) , 20 stolen bases and 137 RBI, while Conor Jackson has 104 extra-base hits (seven triples, 27 homers), 12 stolen bases and 135 RBI in that period.
So tell me again, why is Conor Jackson a better offensive player?
The Braves would NOT trade Kelly Johnson straight up for Conor Jackson.
By The Real Joebrave
December 10, 2008 12:14 AM | Link to this
10:57pm: Heyman says the Yankees’ topped the Braves offer for Burnett by a few million dollars. He says the Yanks apparently will attempt to sign all three top free agent starters - C.C. Sabathia, Derek Lowe, and Burnett… Do You guys honestly think Wren can compete with these N.Y. @ssklowns!!!
I don’t know, just seems that Mr.Wren is a tad overmatched!!!
Wayne, So what was His excuse in K.C. then? Ewing Kauffman was never a meddling owner!!! and had about half the Payroll of the Braves at the time Turner Hired him to replace Bobby!! Cox drafted an abundance of talent that made Shuerholtz look like a genious…
Albeit,I agree that J.S. made some shrewd moves but the bad deals just about even him up!!!
At least he wasn’t John Mullen, and didn’t Trade for Len Barker!!!Geez now that was STUPID!!!
By Doc Holliday
December 10, 2008 12:15 AM | Link to this
DOB
What are the odds that if the Braves sign AJ Burnett, they would also go for Peavy and land him in Atlanta?
By David O'Brien
December 10, 2008 12:20 AM | Link to this
Out of curiosity, at this stage of the off-season what is ridiculously high in terms of personnel?Gone Viral
I’ll defer to a writer familar with the Pirates’ approach for the answer on that one, since I liked his characterization of what the team would ask for Maholm and McLouth: “Get out the Baseball America Braves Top 10 prospects list, and they’d say, we’ll take all of them.”
But seriously, here’s what Pirates GM Neal Huntington told the Post-Gazette’s writer when asked what it would take to pry away any of his “core” guys, if it would take being blown away by an offer:
“Blown away is strong,” he said. “There are certain guys where, in our minds, we would need to get what we’d consider an over-pay. Those are deals you struggle to ask for. You don’t want to get a reputation for asking too much.”
By Local Ownership Needed
December 10, 2008 12:21 AM | Link to this
Im with JoeBrave on this one. Wren may have had a meddling owner, and now he has absentee owners. Who exactly would that be now? In the short time Wren has been here, he hasn’t really done anything impressive. Yeah, sure, he got Kotsay for a little while. But he really hasn’t been a significant force. He needs to be ran out of Atlanta. I’m sure a new owner would see the cluster #$%^& that is the Atlanta Braves organization and clean house.
By Gone Viral
December 10, 2008 12:21 AM | Link to this
“I wouldn’t lean on the CHUCK JAMES reed very hard. He didn’t do so well in the minors last year.”
He had an ERA of 2.9 at AAA this past year. It’s when he got to Atlanta that he had all kinds of problems, which may or may not have been health related.
By Doc Holliday
December 10, 2008 12:22 AM | Link to this
Greinke for JF is a nobrainer as we speak.braves might regret it later in Jeffs career, but it would be a risk I would take.
By Gone Viral
December 10, 2008 12:26 AM | Link to this
“All you here is about how the Braves are trying to get better by signing “past-their-prime” players like Vasquez “
Comments such as this one baffle me. Vazquez turned 32 in July. Don’t you realize that pitchers with rubber arms like his pitch into their 40s? This guy is still going to be a major leaguer in 2016. His prime is right freakin’ now. He’s only like six months older than Burnett.
By Local Ownership Needed
December 10, 2008 12:27 AM | Link to this
Rebuild, baby, rebuild
By Blair
December 10, 2008 12:27 AM | Link to this
I think the Peavy ship has sailed. Atlanta needs to make a splash, but I am wondering if the market is right for such an occasion.
By Gone Viral
December 10, 2008 12:28 AM | Link to this
Thanks, DOB. You can’t really blame the Pirates for that philosophy. It worked with Jason Bay.
By Wayne in Utah
December 10, 2008 12:29 AM | Link to this
Joe In case you are still on. I was raised in the foothills of SC, and have lived significant amounts of time in Texas (twice), Mississippi, northern California (15 years), SC (3 times, for 27 years), central Illinois, and now for 6.5 years in Utah. The first 3 years out west, I covered all the western states.
I have found beauty in all areas I have lived. Yes, even Decatur, Illinois, Biloxi, Mississippi and even in Houston, Texas. So, while I miss the south (and my mama), I don’t miss it enough to leave the expansive west, which I have grown to love over the past 38+ years.
If you don’t like snow, you wouldn’t like it here in the winter. I spent 11 hours driving yesterday, going a grand total of 660 miles, about 200 of it in a moderate storm.
So, while I would agree with you that northern Georgia is indeed beautiful, much like the foothills of SC where I was raised, I can even find the beauty in the barren wasteland that is called Nevada. I cover about 1/2 of the state. Wyoming is similar, yet different. In the north to northwestern corner of Wyoming, you can be in a land that looks desolate, and then find the Big Horn Canyon in the midst of it. (look it up, it is indeed breathtaking).
As for your rantings about FW, really you will find very few here who would think that now is the time for a FW hate party. Give the man some time. If he screws up, I will be the first to admit it.
Last year, despite a limited payroll, he at least had a plan. It backfired, but nobody is going to say it was all his fault.
Gotta run, let’s continue this at a later date.
By uga-brave
December 10, 2008 12:32 AM | Link to this
from AP wire reports,
braves gm frank wren in an attempt to bolster the braves roster took advantage of the rodeo being in las vegas while the MLB baseball winter meetings were in town, traded the chick fil-a cow for a promising bull. “we felt this move proves our commitment to being contenders.”
hinting that he might not be done dealing, wren said “they were also eyeing a veteran bull named ACE, and a bucking bronco named SLUGGER.”
no financial terms were revealed.
By Mike
December 10, 2008 12:34 AM | Link to this
Some of people need your head examined. I am blown away by the remarks some have made in regards to JS and FW. JS was though of as one of if not the best GM in baseball. We had 14 straight years in the playoffs. In case you dont realize, that was an incredible feat obtained at all levels of the organization. A feat i might add that may never be duplicated. And FW has been in this job, what, 1 year. And to top it all of he was shattered by injuries, and not just to the TWO (yes only 2) old guys (one of which was Smoltz and the other was Glavine, a guy who was never on the DL until last year) but to several other key pitchers. Give the guy a break. Lets give him some more time to see what he can do. Some people just cant be happy!
By David O'Brien
December 10, 2008 12:37 AM | Link to this
Just noticed that someone pointed out I used past tense in the 6:11 post, said it “would have added” xxx strikeouts blah blah blah.
Believe me, wasn’t Freudian slip or whateever. Just a typo. I think Braves still have a good chance to get A.J.
By PhillyGirl
December 10, 2008 12:37 AM | Link to this
Mr. O’Brien,
Why aren’t you guys trying to pry Pat the Bat away from us?
I know he looks a bit silly playing in left field, but it’s left field for goodness sakes! If there is a position on the field where you can stomache a bad defender, that’s it.
While I am VERY glad that he won’t be on the Braves next year, I don’t understand why you guys don’t want him. He is right handed and will hit 30 HR.
Chipper, Burrell, McCann, Franceour, Kotchman….throw in Kelly Johnson and Escobar around them….that is a lineup that I wouldn’t want my Phils to face.
Also, I wish there were more fun rumors about the Phillies flying around these meetings. It is so much fun reading about the gossip (you boys and your gossip, you put a sewing circle to shame!!)
By thirdwheel3131
December 10, 2008 12:37 AM | Link to this
DOB,
Can you help narrow this down a bit.
If the Braves lose out on AJ, who would even be the next name on the list of possible Aces to either sign or trade for?
Grienke is out of the picture…. The Pirates want first born children for their young guns… Could they land Halladay? Or would they just pass on trying to get an ace?
Who are some other potential realisitc targets? Sheets? Harang?
Same question for hitting… They passed or seem to be passing on:
Ibanez Burrell Ankiel Ludwick Hart (i imagine they didn’t pass on that but were denied)
Who else might they go after realistically speaking? Prince Fielder is said to be on the market. They have serious cash to spend. Why not make a trade for him and sign Fielder to a long deal? They could then move Kotchman and Freeman like they did Flowers and will finally have a real hitter (who, like Grienke is also young).
This is the part where I say they messed up not pushing harder for Jason Bay.
Who are ace targets after AJ? Who are hitting targets not mentioned above?
By David O'Brien
December 10, 2008 12:40 AM | Link to this
This was the comment I was talking about, fixed:
If the Braves sign Burnett, they will have added two guys (Burnett and Vazquez) who had 431 strikeouts between them last season, two of the top four strikeout leaders in the AL.
That’s 431 strikeouts in 429-2/3 innings by those two
Now consider this: All 11 pitchers who started for the Braves last season combined for 595 strikeouts in 886-1/3 innings.
By pm
December 10, 2008 12:44 AM | Link to this
Is there any possiblity of trading for the Dodger’s Matt Kemp with Kelly Johnson or perhaps Yunel Escobar as the primary piece in the deal?
Kemp is a player I would love to have and would give us a great run-producing corner outfielder for years to come with a lot of room still to grow
By Local Ownership Needed
December 10, 2008 12:44 AM | Link to this
Not happy…that’s an understatement. But, as Braves front office personnel have proved time and time again, no matter how bad a manager or even GM you are…your job is always safe with the Braves, or if your name is Willy Martinez.
By Bravestillidie
December 10, 2008 12:46 AM | Link to this
DOB
I am curious if you have any news on Phil Stockman’s health and contract situation?
Also, I would be interested to hear anything you have heard in regards to the apparently limited talks with the Pirates, which I hear ended with some gaffawing on Frank Wren’s part.
By uga-brave
December 10, 2008 12:46 AM | Link to this
truett cathy, general manager of chick fil-a had no comment, other then “it is a business,” and the chick fil-a cow in a disgruntled grunt only said “eat more chickin.”
By N8
December 10, 2008 12:50 AM | Link to this
How frickin’ sad has the Braves World become, when we (not neccesarily me - I’m on record as saying I’m willing to toil through a rough 2009 if it means hanging on to our prime young players: Escobar, Hanson, Gorkys, Heyward, Schafer, etc…), are pining, in fact BEGGING for Wren to over-pay for a guy that can’t stay on the field like Burnett.
Listen, I’m aware of the fact that Burnett can be dominant when healthy, and by past history, that is about 50-60 percent of the time.
I also respect (and agree with), Wren’s decision to NOT expect anything out of Smoltz, Glavine, Chuck (or the early return to “Ace-ness” of Hudson before 2010), and try and find some other options out there.
But at this point, with the reports that Smoltz is getting close to being healthy, and that Glavine may want to continue pitching, he might be better off “counting” on them.
We picked up an innings eater in Vazquez. Certainly not a “sexy” move by definition. But the kind of move that very well could be a STEAL.
For starters, I’d avoid ANYBODY represented by Bora$$. Just not good business, IMO. His clients tend to set organizations back, rather than help them get to where they want to go. Especially teams with payroll issues. Which I don’t think we have. Wren is willing to spend. Nobody seems interested in taking the Braves’ money.
I guess the lustre of playing for Bobby doesn’t weigh in as much as it did in the days of yesteryear, huh? Granted, I understand that this is possibly (allegedly) Bobby’s last year. But think about it. If the Braves made a playoff push, and got in, don’t you think he’d stick around a couple of more years until his “guys” (Smoltz, Glavine, Chipper), decided to hang it up?
Peavy obviously didn’t want to come to Atlanta. Burnett might very well spurn the Braves offer, for the spotlight of NY. Add to that, the Mets just solved their biggest weakness (a weakness that STILL allowed them to finish double digit games ahead of the Braves).
The Phillies aren’t going away anytime soon, either.
Until the Braves pull a Twins or a Rays and bring up youngsters that take us back to October baseball, free agents aren’t gonna wanna come here.
The days of guys willing to take less money to come to Atlanta to be part of the “run” and storied playoff pushes, are LONG GONE. In fact (as stated above), it appears that not even MONEY can lure them to come south.
Bobby made the run out of nothing in the beginning by drafting and having said draft picks of his developed properly, with JS chipping in in the 1990 offseason, by adding Bream and Pendleton, along with Leibrandt.
Then, JS made obvious moves, for guys that would have been STUPID to not want to stay in Atlanta (signing Maddux - for less money than the Yanks offered, hmmm? Trading for McGriff and THEN signing him to an extension and trading for Neagle).
But one thing that JS NEVER did, was over-pay for ANYBODY. Period.
This team is damn near at rock bottom, especially with the uncertainty of Smoltz and Glavine (and the injury to Hudson). Wren would be making a HUGE mistake to get into a bidding war with Boston and NY for a guy like Burnett.
Trading for Peavy was one thing. But overpaying for Burnett is another. And before you blast away at me, I’m the guy that all along said “keep Escobar and sign somebody, because it’s only money”.
Say we DO get Burnett at an inflated rate, to pair up with Vazquez. So what? The season STILL hinges on Chipper being healthy, Escobar and KJ taking the “next step”, Francoeur returning, along with Gonzo and Soriano NOT having their arms fall off, and Kotchman being a run producer at 1B.
We STILL don’t have a true leadoff hitter.
I’m just not sold on Burnett being the “difference” maker at this point. I think if all of the above mentioned things go our way, and Hanson ends up being as productive in his rookie campaign as it appears he CAN be, the season will be just fine without Burnett.
We might not make the playoffs, but we certainly will be BETTER than last year, when everything went wrong. After all, according to all the homers, we still have Bobby this year, right? Certainly he’s capable of making chicken salad out of chicken sh!t.
Add to that, if Smoltz returns to be anything near what he used to be, there’s the 10-15 wins we’d get out of Burnett.
If I’m Wren, I make a move for Greinke before I overpay for Burnett. If we were talking about overpaying for Derek Lowe, that would be one thing. But it’s AJ “frickin” Burnett, people.
Unreal.
By winterville
December 10, 2008 12:53 AM | Link to this
DOB
Have you been able to do any gambling out there or is work keeping you too busy? The rumors don’t seem to ever stop but neither do the craps tables!
By N8
December 10, 2008 1:07 AM | Link to this
DOB
That is an interesting stat (about the strikeouts). In fact, on the surface, it’s encouraging.
I saw it the first time, and then I saw somebody’s comment about it being good that Wren was trying to acquire guys that “avoid bats” when they pitch.
But the reason I say “on the surface” (at least for Vazquez, is that while his strikeout are high (which IS good come October - IMO, part of the Braves post-seaosn problems stem from not having enough K pitchers).
But unfortunately, Vazquez while piling up big K totals, also gives up a TON of hits inbetween those strikeouts.
Kind of like Acosta did a couple years ago for the Braves. He seemed to strike out the side in plenty of his outings, it just so hapened that inbetween those K’s he gave up a walk, two singles and then a 3-run bomb.
Nit-picking a bit, am I? Possibly. But somebody posted the BA against Vazquez when balls are put in play and it was ridiculously high. The only flipside of that is that his BB totals are pretty reasonable.
But regardless, it IS alarming that the two of them (Burnett and Vazquez) combined for almost as many K’s as our entire staff in half the innings.
Just not sure that makes them the “right” pieces to make us legitmate post-season contenders. Better than 2008? Absolutely.
But if Wren isn’t gonna “go for gold” (Peavy, Lowe), then I’m not sure what the point is.
I can understand a “stop-gap” starter until Hanson and the other youngsters are ready to be big league pitchers. But over-paying for Burnett is not “stop-gap”.
It reminds me of Texas overpaying for Chan Ho Park. Yikes.
Vazquez on the other hand, might be the perfect guy to get us to the next wave of guys.
By The Bottom Line
December 10, 2008 1:09 AM | Link to this
The Braves need to take a page out of the Atlanta Falcons on how to build a winning ball club. Here’s an excerpt: 1. Get rid of people who are not performing. 2. Have owners who actually are present and care about the organization. 3. When times are bad, don’t hike up ticket prices. just to name some…
By GermanBravesFan
December 10, 2008 1:14 AM | Link to this
Good morning from Switzerland where I just woke up to 20 inches of snow (and why did I leave California again…?)… Glad to see that Jeff Francoeur is still a Brave. It’s good to see that he is receiving a chance to prove that last season was not the true JF!
DOB: do you think the Peavy deal is completely dead?
By David O'Brien
December 10, 2008 1:21 AM | Link to this
Same question for hitting… They passed or seem to be passing on:
Ibanez Burrell Ankiel Ludwick Hart (i imagine they didn’t pass on that but were denied)ThirdWheel
Don’t know where you’re getting info, but Braves haven’t “passed on” Ibanez (they’re interested), haven’t passed on Ankiel (they’re interested, just wouldn’t give up Gonzo for him), haven’t passed on Ludwick (talks just stalled, but can be revisited) and haven’t “passed on” Hart (don’t know the status of that, but they’ve inquired, at least at some recent point).
By Coach (skip and pete will be missed)
December 10, 2008 1:23 AM | Link to this
N8, just stop it already! You are making to much damn sense. This blog doesn’t need intelligence. It needs more COOCH comments. Don’t worry, Wren and Cox are brilliant, like laurel and Hardy or Dean Martin and Jerry Lewis. Wonderful at comedy, but just so so at running a baseball team.
And the post at 11:47, we can’t have any of that either.
P.S I laughed my butt off when I read it!
By David O'Brien
December 10, 2008 1:24 AM | Link to this
PhillyGirl: If you think Pat the Bat “looks silly” (and I agree with you) in left field at your small ballpark, and with that wall that juts out preventing balls from rattling around down in a big foul corner, imagine how he’d look in the far bigger left field at Turner Field.
By David O'Brien
December 10, 2008 1:28 AM | Link to this
Doc Holliday: What part are you not hearing about Greinke-for-Francouer rumor? The Royals would never trade Greinke straight up for Francoeur. They’re not intending to trade Greinke at all, and from what I heard today, to even consider it they’d probably have to get Escobar and a prospect in addition to Francoeur.
By thirdwheel3131
December 10, 2008 1:35 AM | Link to this
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/12/raul-ibanez-rum.html
Describes interest in Ibanez as mild. I knew about Gonzo, just didn’t seem like the price would work. Plus Boras client, 1 year place holder? My impression was that wasn’t happening. Also, isn’t Ankiel hurt a lot? My understanding was Hart’s price would be quite high. I wasn’t saying they weren’t willing to pay it. I was implying I imagine they’d be all over him if they could.
Hypothetically, if these names all dry up — are there any potential interesting names that might be a fit.
For example, there was a rumor a while back the cubs would be willing to move Soriano’s contract…
They have all this 50 mil to burn… If AJ goes away… Who will play? Who will hit!
Speculate for a moment…They lost out on Peavy… They might lose out on Burnett… Where do they go? I
By kirkinga
December 10, 2008 1:40 AM | Link to this
Good take N8, I think many are looking for the big score and overlooking the utility of moves such as the trade for JV.
Even though it’s still a ways to go in the offseason, I think it wouldn’t hurt to start asking ourselves how the Braves could approach the season without an obvious ace?
I tend to believe Smoltz when he says he’ll be back. If true, then there’s our ace.The trick may be surviving until he returns to full strength.
I think the Braves could make that kind of run next season if they add a run-producing bat and another solid starter who will eat innings and win more than he loses.
Perhaps not forcing things will be the best move by Wren this offseason.
By fastasballs
December 10, 2008 1:45 AM | Link to this
N8
I’m right with you on being fine with going through 2009 without making a lot of noise, if that means we keep our prospects & build for 2010 & beyond.
The free agent market doesn’t appear to be favoring the Braves at all. Even when the Braves have the money to spend it doesn’t equal ace pitchers falling over themselves to play in Atlanta. As you say those days of guys flocking here to be part of a “winning” team are long gone.
I was for a Peavy trade because he is the type of pitcher you can build around. JJ & Hanson should be around for years. You never know what other pitcher could ascend through the organization like Hanson has. The Braves also hold a very high draft pick next season as well so that crop could get deeper or maybe they draft a third baseman (farm’s fairly weak there).
Actually as the days go by I’m not that upset that the Wren hasn’t done something on the trade front. Trying to build the current Braves into a contending team is a tall order, much less in one off season. It’s probably not possible to do so without gutting the farm system as Frank Wren is probably finding out.
Wren will really impress me if he resists the urge to TRY & win now by trading the future.
I really think some of the kids could contribute this season, especially later in the year depending on needs & who continues to progress.
By N8
December 10, 2008 1:52 AM | Link to this
DOB
I have to apologize for a comment I made a couple of weeks ago.
I’ve been putting long hours in at the office (busy season), and have about run out of comedy cd’s to listen to. So I decided to buy some on I-tunes. I purchased “Skanks for the Memories” by Dave Attel, and realized that the most I had seen of him were on Comedy Central and some other shows that obviously edited out most of his crude material.
I still say he’s not as politically incorrect as the Dice Man’s act would be today, but the dude is pretty frickin’ out there and just as crude as ANYBODY has ever been…. and I LOVE it!
Had to buy a bunch of the Roy D. Mercer clips too. Those guys are frickin’ hilarious. Nothing like me sitting by myself at my office laughing my azz off. Good times.
Again, I was wrong, you were right. I’ve always stated that I’m not afraid to give credit where credit is due, and this is no different. Not sure you care or not, but I felt compelled to let you know that I stand corrected.
By fastasballs
December 10, 2008 2:15 AM | Link to this
Smoltz I would be willing to bet comes back & performs up to his usual greatness. I know to a degree he’s still not to be counted on, but I think we all know he will be pitching. I read either something DOB wrote or somewhere else that he would come back as a starter.
If that’s the case we have JJ, Vazquez, Smoltz, Morton, & hopefully Hanson as starters. Glavine is a possibility, but I’m not as hopeful as with Smoltz. This is if no other moves are made. Frankly I can live with that. As strong as the bullpen should be on paper, hopefully with Ohman included, the Braves should be able to play some respectable baseball in 2009. Fighting for the Division in Sept? I highly doubt it.
2009 can be a very useful year for the Braves & Wren by using it to prepare for 2010 & beyond. If for whatever reason the team takes shape & is in the fight for the Division before the break then by all means make some moves, but until reality says go for it, it’s best to play for the future IMO.
There are just too many unknowns going into 2009 to think that adding a good bat in the outfield, one ace & a Vazquez will solve them all.
After 2009 the Braves will know if Francoeur will be part of their plans, actually probably by the all star break. Also we will see if Hanson is ACE material & see how the slew of top prospects progress at another level, maybe even some with the Braves for a short time.
If the Braves had a private owner I think we would see more of a wait & see approach taken by the team. I could be wrong, but this win now attitude MAY cost this team for years to come if trades are made out of desperation.
By scottbravesfan
December 10, 2008 2:31 AM | Link to this
What’s all this talk about Smoltz leaving the Braves?
By Wayne in Utah
December 10, 2008 2:34 AM | Link to this
N8 and kirk Agree with a lot of what you gents are saying about not going too crazy for 2009. Problem is the Braves have always tried to figure out some way to put themselves in the game.
To be honest, it worked for a long time (with Ted’s money), but it is a harder thing to do with the economics of today’s org.
I remember that I was talking about a few players who might help, and got a new one ripped by many for just mentioning Vazquez.
While I don’t think he is of the quality of a JV, a guy like Jon Garland would have helped last year.
I am not for signing a guy like Garland, but I would love to see us add one more quality arm, even it we have to punt to get a guy like Edwin Jackson, or maybe a Scott Baker. I think we are going in too right now.
While I have high hopes for Morton, Hanson, and Reyes; I am not sure they will all really pan out this year.
I too would be willing to live with a youthful experience for 2009, and set things up for a real run in 2010. Again, not the Braves way though.
Problem with this approach is that we will have all the yahoos out there calling for Frank’s and Bobby’s and Roger’s and JS’s head on a platter if we did go young, and praytell somebody like Hanson only won 8-10 games with a 4.5 ERA or something like that. It would be a close proximity to the frickin end of the world.
Remember the last couple of years when folks would come on here and go from a total rant to total jubilation during a frickin half an inning.
Sometimes even during a damned at bat!!!
Oh well, I think sometimes patience comes with age. I put up with a lot more crap at 53 than I ever did at 33.
Dave Thanks for the work man! Some of us are danged jealous of your job, except the part about trying to find your way around that huge monstracity they call the Bellagio.
On my trip back from Phoenix, I was taking my 16 year old around Caesar’s Palace, and thought I was going to die before we got out of there! Place is HUGE!
Nite all…
By DJ
December 10, 2008 2:45 AM | Link to this
Folks, PLEASE enough of the Jake Peavy rumors. HE WILL NOT BE IN ATLANTA IN ‘09. He lied when it was first mentioned that he would drop his no-trade clause to pitch for the Braves. His only focus now is to pitch for the Cubs.
The focus now should be to hope we can sign Burnett anf guarantee that 5th year plus sign free agent Raul Ibanez or trade for Jermaine Dye. PERIOD. Then it would be nice to focus on our bench and maybe think about another starter to sign before January.
Overall, the team and the Bobby Cox need to create more fire in the clubhouse instead of the conservative attitude that is obviously not producing enough wins in order to compete with the rest of the field in the NL East in particular.
By David O'Brien
December 10, 2008 3:07 AM | Link to this
Bunch of us were just sitting at the sports book here, and the Cavs highlights came on SportsCenter. Everyone stood in rapt attention watching LeBron’s unbelievable dunk show tonight. He was just ridiculous, throwing down again, and again, and again….
N8, I really wondered if you’d heard Attell, Louis CK and a few others unedited, when you said they weren’t as crude as Dice. They are. Only funnier….
Speaking of Attell, I can’t think of this other guy’s name, but another 30ish comedian who’s hilarious and crude, was in the fitness center here at the Bellagio the other day when I was in there. I did a double-take, and it was him. Got to try to think of his name. Also has a scraggly beard, but sort of a stoned-sounding delivery….
Someone saw Mike Hampton walk through the Bellagio today. Said hello, but didn’t ask him what he was doing here. I didn’t see him….
By kirkinga
December 10, 2008 3:10 AM | Link to this
Wayne, N8, I don’t assess the Braves’ situation as a choice between acquire an ace and win or “go young” and write the season off.
I believe the goal should be to contend, but the first step is to become a solid and consistent ball club. Acquiring a run-producing bat and a solid starter would go a long way towards stabilizing the Braves with Smoltz set to return at some point in the second half of the season.
If the Braves can avoid another June swoon, I think they can be competitive throughout the season.
By BA
December 10, 2008 3:33 AM | Link to this
That 12:13 a.m. post from DOB was some late night Jedi ish! Mid December and this guy is the one dealing.
Saw it discussed earlier, and I’ll repeat: if you lose Ohman, it’s going to hurt- bad. I love watching Soriano and especially Gonzalez throw, and in the first half, Boyer was strong (and I agree with whoever pointed out the Smoltz factor with him) but Ohman was the man last year, and if all else failed the guy would make a good closer. Those pens can get shuffled around in a hurry, and that guy was so damn dependable.
Liked the PhillyGirl post. The left side of my brain doesn’t want anything to do with a crummy defensive outfielder. But the right side sees dude jacking ‘em over that asinine cow.
You lost me, ugabrave- mini fridge was much funnier.
You can keep be…uh- sodas in there, candy bars in the freezer…
By Bobby's Cox
December 10, 2008 3:55 AM | Link to this
So,
McLouth is a no go
Ankiel, Ludwick talks are stalled if not dead.
Conor Jackson was a no for Tex, and so the report for KJ swap is likely bogus.
Dunn, Burrell, & Ibanez are either not of interest to Wren or will demand too much for what the team wants to spend on LF.
So, that brings me back to Nelson Cruz.
By Joel
December 10, 2008 4:06 AM | Link to this
DOB, Don’t know if this has been asked, but is there anyway the Braves would get in on Prince Fielder if the Brewers made him available? I know we have Kotchman, just seems like adding a hitter of Fielders caliber is rare.
By J.L.
December 10, 2008 4:39 AM | Link to this
JOEL: Fielder can’t field.You would have your infielders double clutching every throw.
By BA
December 10, 2008 5:03 AM | Link to this
Wren got a better player than Jackson in that deal. Kotchman is worlds better defensively, and he strikes out half as much. Add Marek, and it’s not even close. I bet the Jackson thing was on the table the whole time, but Wren held out for more from Anaheim.
It would take a lot to get Fielder. We’ve got a solid 1B with little power. It’s going to take an outfielder with a lot of power to balance out getting 30-40 hr’s from 1B and 3B combined. If we got anybody from the Brewers, I’d want Cameron. Local guy, some power, some speed- better than average defender…only drawback is the k’s.
By GermanBravesFan
December 10, 2008 5:24 AM | Link to this
BA - why open up another can of worms? Frank Wren made it clear that priorities are starting pitching and an outfielder…
By BabyGoatEater
December 10, 2008 6:23 AM | Link to this
Looks like the first domino fell…..CC’s a Yankee. Balls in AJ’s court.
By GermanBravesFan
December 10, 2008 6:43 AM | Link to this
Sabathia has not signed anywhere yet…
By Marty
December 10, 2008 6:46 AM | Link to this
Bobby’s Cox - What is with your obsession with Nelson Cruz? So he hit well over 115 AB last season. So he’s done well in the minors. He’s 28, though, and has never shown for anything close to a whole major-league season that he can hit major-league pitching. Also, his major-league and minor-league numbers suggest that he’s a butcher in the outfield (his 1.000 FP over a few games in LF two seasons ago notwithstanding).
How is picking up another guy we can’t depend on the answer?
By dragrace79
December 10, 2008 6:50 AM | Link to this
Man, it kills me to see the Yankees pony up huge cash to buy yet another free agent, but I guess since this benefits the Braves (possibly) and aids them in landing Burnett, I’m glad it happened. It will be nice to kepp CC out of the NL, too. I can’t believe I was pulling for such a big name to go to the Yanks…ugh
By Steve McP
December 10, 2008 6:50 AM | Link to this
DOB - Sounds like the guy in the fitness club was Russsel Brand, a fellow Brit. He is doing a lot of work in the US at the moment as he is persona non grata in the UK after getting thrown off the BBC.
By Johnny B
December 10, 2008 6:53 AM | Link to this
Greetings all!
Joel Sherman of the NY Post is reporting that CC has accepted the Yankees offer. Also, just heard him in a live interview on the radio say that the Yankees still want Burnett and currently have the highest offer on the table.
If true, I think if the Braves seriously want Burnett they will have to come back and guarantee the fifth year. Maybe they could offer it as guaranteed if he met certain incentives such as say 600 innings or 60 wins over the first four….
I don’t think that is unrealistic for a guy you’re paying to be you’re #1 / Ace in the rotation. 150 / 15 average every year should be obtainable for a pitcher of his caliber provided he can buck his history and stay healthy.
What do you guys think? DOB?
Just a thought…Personally, I for one, have faith in Frank Wren and will leave the ” wheelin & dealin” to him!
By BabyGoatEater
December 10, 2008 6:53 AM | Link to this
ESPN via New York Post…..CC is a Yankee. Just tellin ya what was reported. Usually ESPN, and NY Post wont blatantly lie. Who knows?
By GermanBravesFan
December 10, 2008 6:55 AM | Link to this
From Foxsports (Ken Rosenthal): “The Cubs maintain that they are “not even close” to a trade for Padres right-hander Jake Peavy and continue to mull a run at free-agent lefty Randy Johnson if the price for Peavy proves too steep.”
So much for now on that deal…
By BabyGoatEater
December 10, 2008 6:57 AM | Link to this
CC is Yankee, NY Post](http://www.nypost.com/seven/12102008/sports/yankees/yankscloseinonsabathiadeal143481.htm)
By Nocturnal Owl
December 10, 2008 7:00 AM | Link to this
Good news CC goes to NY!!!! This blog won’t make it through today’s busy day….
By Marty
December 10, 2008 7:04 AM | Link to this
I wonder why no one other than the N.Y. Post is reporting that C.C. Sabathia “will” accept the Yankees’ offer…
(Other than ESPN, who is merely citing the N.Y. Post report.)
By BabyGoatEater
December 10, 2008 7:04 AM | Link to this
CC is Yankee, NY Post
By GermanBravesFan
December 10, 2008 7:07 AM | Link to this
Well, if it’s true, then congrats to the Yankees! Now, let’s hope the Braves can land AJ…
How about making an offer to Ibañez? Even if it is at $10 million per year. I think he will be a great fit for the Braves!!
By JT
December 10, 2008 7:18 AM | Link to this
When people say we need a “true” leadoff hitter- I still don’t understand this. A leadoff hitter (#1 in the order) is only guaranteed to bat leadoff once a game. That’s it. I think it’s much more important to have guys up and down the lineup that can go 1st to 3rd, steal bases, etc etc. There’s a lot of teams that do well, very well, without a “true” leadoff hitter.
Also- I’m beginning to feel, like others, that maybe we should pull back from the free-agent and trade-em-if-you-got-em crazy talk- there’s not a ton of stuff out there at this point, and maybe it would be better to just play 2009 and develop some young guys, and then really ramp it up for 2010. The big dissapointment with that is Chipper- I don’t know how many years he has left, and if he’d want to play for a team that is trying to develop young guys instead of charging for the postseason.
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
December 10, 2008 7:30 AM | Link to this
DOB, yes it matters. I guess I just needed you to tell me directly. (:
Sorry to have make you repeat yourself…must get annoying.
By Yars
December 10, 2008 7:31 AM | Link to this
Wren needs to now talk to the Orioles about what it will take to get Ryan Freel. Prado/couple prospects for Freel sounds fair. First, the O’s would have to move Brian Roberts… :P
By GermanBravesFan
December 10, 2008 7:33 AM | Link to this
JT - isn’t it a little early to throw in the towel? The Braves team has the potential to do very well if they can add a solid starter at the top of the rotation and an outfielder who can protect Chipper. I believe there might be a chance to add these two pieces without giving up any more prospects. Let’s face it: Towers was NOT going to catch for the Braves as long as Brian McCann is there, so it is not a big loss. Why not spend the $40-45 million now? The top-level prospects are still here as well as Escobar!
Let’s be patient and see what team will come out of Spring Training to start the season!
By JR
December 10, 2008 7:35 AM | Link to this
Wow all of these rumors are starting to hurt my brain. Can we get something substantial. The Braves seem like that guy at the bar who tries to get a date by buying every girl a drink at the bar and all of the girls keep teasing him and seeing how many drinks they can squeeze out of him. Wren keep looking for that babe, but don’t go to bed with a 10 and wake up with a 2 if you know what I mean. In other words don’t mortgage the future for a quick fix. All of the rumored guys are pretty much bums. Another question, if we were looking so hard at a right handed power hitting LF why did we never get involved with the Rockies for Matt Holliday. And guys please don’t say defense in the big park of Turner especially you DOB. I know you have all seen Matt Diaz play defense. He can’t get to anything.
By Jeff R
December 10, 2008 7:50 AM | Link to this
I think Burnett will need that guarenteed fifth year to ink a deal with th Braves. Yanks are always going to up the money and can go for five years as well. But if the offers are close enough, it boils down to where Burnett’s comfort level is: Atlanta or NYC.
It is great that Wren is showing restraint at the meetings. Patience is the key to a lot of success. I wouldn’t give up top prospects who can make the team competitive in ‘09 and beyond for a one year fix.
By Ebravesluvr
December 10, 2008 7:56 AM | Link to this
Yes, the broke the mold when them made Maddux. I don’t expect to ever see another pitcher as great as him, much as I don’t expect to see a basketball player as great as Michael Jordan
With this one statement, David O’Brien just became my new hero.
By Ebravesluvr
December 10, 2008 7:56 AM | Link to this
Yes, the broke the mold when them made Maddux. I don’t expect to ever see another pitcher as great as him, much as I don’t expect to see a basketball player as great as Michael Jordan
With this one statement, David O’Brien just became my new hero.
By GermanBravesFan
December 10, 2008 7:57 AM | Link to this
JR - I guess Holliday will be a free agent after next season and would have cost the Braves a lot in regards to prospects (especially high-level ones)…
By Chipper 4 MVP
December 10, 2008 8:02 AM | Link to this
On Mike and Mike this morning, They said Bobby Cox is 3rd in list of managers thats been with a certain club for a certain length of time. Hes been with the Braves for 19 years! I thought that was cool thats hes 3rd. Atleast I think it was 3rd. Anyways:
CC Sabathia is gone to the Yankees according to ESPN, and its on MLB.com so does that mean that AJ Burnett will sign before the meetings are over?
By Braveheart
December 10, 2008 8:08 AM | Link to this
Someone saw Mike Hampton walk through the Bellagio today. Said hello, but didn’t ask him what he was doing here. I didn’t see him
Nothing says getting closer to the kids than a trip to Vegas ……..
No stone, er, chip, goes unturned in Hampton’s undying quest to locate the best school system
By Ray
December 10, 2008 8:12 AM | Link to this
DOB, Thanks for all of your coverage during the winter meetings. Its been a long time since I have commented on here. I visit the blog everyday just don’t always participate. Man you have some patience on here. I have to give it to you. What is YOUR opinion on the Braves signing Burnett for potentially 5 yrs? My other question is would there be any interest in Delmon Young? I know he has a questionable past. Price too high and/or not established enough,, I am guessing the same thing for Teahen someone along those lines. Thanks again for the work you do.
By Ryan
December 10, 2008 8:16 AM | Link to this
We are going to spend all week watching the braves get outbid on players, and hearing the famous “we asked, but their gm was asking too much” crap. Nothing wil get done, mark those words.
By GermanBravesFan
December 10, 2008 8:23 AM | Link to this
Braveheart - I am sure Dr. Andrews attended the meetings, too, and Hampton was just there to say hello!
By BravesFanInRockies
December 10, 2008 8:30 AM | Link to this
Braveheart,
Hey, I used to live in Vegas (2000-4). One of the chamber of commerce “selling points” for the place was its wonderful schools.
Turns out the schools weren’t good, they were just new, because of all the population growth. The buildings in which no learning took place sure were pretty, however.
By BravesFanInRockies
December 10, 2008 8:32 AM | Link to this
This is one of the few times in recent memory — maybe ever — that I hope the Yankees get their top free agent target.
Signing CC may let the other dominoes fall — led by AJ to the Braves for an acceptable contract.
Go Hank, go!
By Mitch
December 10, 2008 8:37 AM | Link to this
As much as we may be leery to give Burnett a five year guaranteed deal with his medical history, we may need to, or, the Yankees will sign him.
Our rotation right now is a question mark at best. We have Vasquez, who will win some games, and JJ, who we can hopefully get 12 to 16 wins from, if he doesnt have a soph slump. Besides those two, what do we have?
Hudson is out, and may be finished as a Brave. Glavine is 43 and coming off surgery. Glav coming back to win 10 or more games would be a storybook ending, but who knows at age 43? Smoltz is 42, and also coming off surgery. Will he retire, be in the pen, or go to another team? Our rotation is just so full of question marks, that it would seem to me that since we cant afford Sabathia, Burnett is our best available option.
I hope Wren signs Burnett.
By JR
December 10, 2008 8:41 AM | Link to this
German, I knew Holliday would be a FA, but I was just curious to see if we even inquired, and it didn’t seem like Oakland gave up a ton for him, Oh well.
If we don’t get Burnett, where do we go? Are we even interested in Sheets? I know the health factor and all are questions, but this guy has better stuff than Burnett. At least he wouldn’t be pitching against the Braves anymore. This guy dominates us. It’s hard to sift through the BS and figure out which trade rumors are legit and which are not. Are we talking to any lower level starting pitcher free agents such as Penny, etc…? It may have to resort to that. We need two more pitchers and two, probably three Outfielders if Frenchy can’t rebound.
By toddh
December 10, 2008 8:58 AM | Link to this
CC to the yanks is what we want. Now, lets get aj signed and move on to landing some power.
question: what happens if smoltz & glav are good to go in spring training?
By GermanBravesFan
December 10, 2008 8:59 AM | Link to this
If it is true that Sabathia signed with the Yankees, then there should be a decision by Burnett soon! Once he makes his decision, the picture will get much clearer. If he signs with the Braves, Frank Wren is almost done… Hopefully, he can sign a solid left fielder without giving up any prospects!! He can then focus no Ohman…
If Smoltz can come back and start next year, the rotation would not be too bad at all: Burnett/Jurrjens/Smoltz/Vazquez/Hanson - and the Braves still have Morton, Campillo, Reyes etc. who may fight for a spot!
By BravesFanChris24
December 10, 2008 9:13 AM | Link to this
Apparently the deal for CC is 7 years/160 million.
I just hope this means Braves will be able to sign AJ.
By Heath
December 10, 2008 9:16 AM | Link to this
I’m going to hold out on cheering for the Yankees until the Braves actually sign Burnett. Just because the Yankees sign C.C. doesn’t mean that they won’t continue to push for Burnett.
Here’s a thought… we all think that Burnett could make a decision on his new team based on where C.C. went… but could he decide that since C.C. signed with the Yankees that he would also like to sign there so that he goes to a team that has an immediate chance to win? I am particularly worried about that scenario. It is possible, at least in my mind, that he follows C.C. to the Yanks, but could have chosen the Braves if C.C. decided to go to California… paranoia?
By Kevin
December 10, 2008 9:19 AM | Link to this
GermanBravesFan, we traded JoJo Reyes didn’t we?
By Efrim
December 10, 2008 9:20 AM | Link to this
Jon Heyman:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/jon_heyman/12/10/sabathia.yanks/index.html
The Yankees’ new rotation is starting to take shape as they are also in serious negotiations with free agent pitcher Derek Lowe. An agreement with Lowe is likely to be finalized in coming days, as well. The sides were discussing a contract for four years and about $66 million late Tuesday.
The Yankees, though, are intent on adding three starters and are also talking with A.J. Burnett and Ben Sheets. They are hopeful of adding one of those two pitchers to round out the expected rotation.
Burnett is talking to the Braves, as well, and there is a feeling Atlanta is the favorite to lock him up. If Burnett does go to Atlanta, Sheets looks like the next pitcher the Yankees will target. The New York Post Web site first mentioned Sabathia was set to sign on its Web site Wednesday morning.
My guess is that the Braves will offer the fifth year guaranteed and the Yankees will pass and go sign Sheets.
By ryan c
December 10, 2008 9:20 AM | Link to this
with the rumor of sabathia signing with the yanks, i would be willing to bet it would still take 5yr/80 mil to sign burnett.
if the braves cant pull off a greinke trade (which it looks as though it was all hogwash), then 16 mil for burnett, 11 mil for vazquez, 7 mil for smoltz, still leaves us 6-10 mil left for some additions. it looks as though a trade will be necessary to fill the left field gap. going into another season with diaz, francoeur, and a new center fielder will have disastrous repercussions.
imo, kj (our best mlb trading chip)is good as gone, with prado taking over at 2nd.
dob, do you know of any team who has an outfield surplus of power with a need for a 2 bagger?
By McFann O –[zzz]
December 10, 2008 9:22 AM | Link to this
Neight The Phillies aren’t going away anytime soon, either.
Ah, crud.
By DAP
December 10, 2008 9:27 AM | Link to this
blair Have the Braves inquired about Alex Rios? That dude is a freakin’ stud.
no he isnt. go look at his stats (just average for a corner outfielder) and his ridiculous contract.
By Gene Garbage
December 10, 2008 9:30 AM | Link to this
DOB-
Is the comedian you are talking about Zack Galifianakis? F’n hysterical. He is right up your alley. Check out his DVD ” Live from the Purple Onion “. Also, youg gotta check out the Jack White produced Loretta Lynne album, ” Van Lear Rose “. Brilliant.
Gene Garbage
By repo man
December 10, 2008 9:40 AM | Link to this
If signing Burnett would make Wrens job almost done…I feel sorry for Braves and Fans. The Braves outfield Ranks last in ML. RF sticks of ???, LF is blank (no defense Diaz?) CF Rookie never played above AA, best hope there Josh A. the other couple are just Ins. should trade along with JF. Plus other problems??
By Peavy Rules
December 10, 2008 9:46 AM | Link to this
The Braves seem like that guy at the bar who tries to get a date by buying every girl a drink at the bar and all of the girls keep teasing him and seeing how many drinks they can squeeze out of him.
They also seem to be the kind of guy that the girl (Hampton) marries, then takes for a ride and dumps in the end.
Gimme a “P”, gimme an “E”, gimme an “A”, gimme a “V”, gimme a “Y” what does that spell …. “PEAVY”
By Voice of Reason
December 10, 2008 9:52 AM | Link to this
then 16 mil for burnett, 11 mil for vazquez, 7 mil for smoltz, still leaves us 6-10 mil left for some additions.
5/$80M would probably lock it up, and might not be bad under the current market values, considering you get shut out if you don’t sign him. Smoltz will get more then $7M, though. He made $14M last year and his option (which he obviously didn’t achieve) was for $12M in ‘09. If you use Glavine as a yardstick, he turned down $13M to return to ATL for $8M. I see big Johnny getting $9-10M, assuming he can go, and $10M for the real Smoltz is worth every penny. That said, they’ll still have $$$ for LF and Norton, but Ohman might be a goner…
By GermanBravesFan
December 10, 2008 9:52 AM | Link to this
Kevin - No, I think the Braves included Flowers in the trade with the White Sox, not Reyes.
By 22oz
December 10, 2008 9:54 AM | Link to this
I heard the best news in a long time yesterday, but i bet it has gotten lost in the shuffle of the Winter Meetings: FOX will no longer have a pregame show for its baseball coverage! No Jeannie, Kevin Kennedy, or Mark Grace! Hallelujah!! Hopefully this also means no 3:55 start times as well.
By GermanBravesFan
December 10, 2008 9:57 AM | Link to this
repo man - the word ALMOST in that sentence implies that Wren would not be done if he signed Burnett. He WILL be looking for a left fielder… People on this blog have been talking about this for weeks now…
By Nat
December 10, 2008 10:00 AM | Link to this
22oz,
That is GREAT news!
By DAP
December 10, 2008 10:03 AM | Link to this
i bet smoltz will sign a incentive contract. since nobody is really sure what would happen with him, it would be fair. maybe something that allows him to make as much as $10mil, for innings pitched or something.
By repo man
December 10, 2008 10:03 AM | Link to this
sorrrrry about stink. sp.
By GermanBravesFan
December 10, 2008 10:04 AM | Link to this
Voice of Reason - If I am not mistaken, the money for Smoltz and Glavine is supposed to be separate from what Wren has available now… So, $11.5 million for Vazquez, (presumably) $16 mill for Burnett and $8-10 mill for a left fielder may still leave enough for Ohman and Norton…
By Lew
December 10, 2008 10:05 AM | Link to this
Apparently someone called Blog Police feels I have transcended my previous level of Jerkdom. I am SO chastised-by an entity without the creativity to come up with a decent Fake name. I’ll never be a jerk again. I promise. Really I do. Yeah. Sure.
By MT Braves Fan
December 10, 2008 10:07 AM | Link to this
So with the Yankees signing CC (Rosenthal is confirming the NY newspaper report) and closing in on Derek Lowe, they musn’t be as concerned about driving up the price on A.J. now? He must have flat told them he didn’t want to play in New York or something I guess. So now we only have the other evil empire of the Northeast to outbid. Hope we get some news on this today.
By dbraves
December 10, 2008 10:09 AM | Link to this
If I am the Phillies why do I want to help the Cubs get Jake Peavy. They don’t need Mark DeRosa that bad. Shurely they could find someone else.
By GermanBravesFan
December 10, 2008 10:10 AM | Link to this
22oz - now let’s hope ESPN will dump Joe Morgan!!
By Dadgum
December 10, 2008 10:10 AM | Link to this
Well looks like CC was playing the Yankees against the Dodgers to drive up the price. Guess it worked well as he is just about to ink the deal with NY.
The odds that the Braves will acquire Burnett just went significantly higher according to ESPN and MLB sites.
Given the gravity of the impending CC signing, I feel Wren should contact AJ’s agent immediately and guarantee a 5 year/75m deal if he signs by the end of the winter meetings. The Yanks don’t want to give AJ 5 years now that they are about to have CC but can the Braves hold firm on their original offer of a vested 5th year option? Who knows but I have (and many others) opined that going to a 5th year now ain’t that big a deal and it most certainly will take it anyway to land Burnett.
Rock on……
By SeaAtl
December 10, 2008 10:13 AM | Link to this
I logged on today and saw Frenchy’s mug staring back at me. For a brief moment I thought our hopes and prayers had been answered - we had finally unloaded the least productive right fielder in professional baseball. But, no, just the opposite. How disappointing. I am as anxious about our pitiful outfield as I am about our pitching. If we can get anything for Frenchy now, we should make the deal - because after this year he will be worthless.
By Voice of Reason
December 10, 2008 10:22 AM | Link to this
Apparently since they’re in Vegas, Cashman is trying to draw to a full house. Hopefully, he’ll have to play just a pair of aces. Unfortunately, though, he has raised the ante. Why is it that it seems the Yanks are always playing with house money?
If Frank can score an ace of his own, and still draw a face for his outfield, he can at least play his hand and not have to fold.
The wild card, of course, is Kevin Towers, who is the real Joker of the game. If NYY plays a three-of-a-kind, and takes the Braves high-card, Frank may have no choice but to see if Towers is still at the table. (cringe) Towers doesn’t have a very good poker face, though, and Frank seems to recognize his “tells”.
At least Frank’s at the big money table with a few chips to play. I just hope he hasn’t gone all in with AJ only to find that Cashman’s not bluffing about taking the whole pot.
By staggerlee
December 10, 2008 10:22 AM | Link to this
Looks like the Poopdres are gonna get stung. They would have gotten a much better package from Atlanta. KT and Alderson screwed around so much they in actuality screwed themselves and Poopdres fans. Not very competent leadership. They’re getting what they deserve. Go Poopdres!
By DoubleDay
December 10, 2008 10:22 AM | Link to this
How is Smoltz going to get more than 7 million? How is he even going to get 7 million? He is going to turn 42 in may of next year, just coming off surgery of his throwing arm….Just because he made 14 million last year doesn’t mean that he will make half that by using “…Glavine as a yardstick” They were hurt and are coming off injuries. Plus they are old in baseball years… No way Smoltz is getting 9-10 million a year…
By rotty
December 10, 2008 10:23 AM | Link to this
dbraves good observation. Reason 325 why Towers is captain BS and why many in the press look silly for printing every brain fart that comes out of his mouth.
I still think in the end he will come crawling back to Wren. Their front office is a mess and out of control.
Many in the Padres front office will be working at the Lowes come ST.
By Don't Trade Franceour, Sheesh
December 10, 2008 10:34 AM | Link to this
GermanBravesFan I feel offering an ultimatum to Burnett would be a bad idea, especially that high…That could go very badly if he decides to wait it out.
And what sources are you seeing that site the C.C. signing as helping the Braves. I’m just curious.
By Efrim
December 10, 2008 10:34 AM | Link to this
The Yankees are something else. Sign Sabathia to a seven year deal. Close to signing Lowe to a four year deal worth between 68-72 million. And they are also in on Sheets AND Burnett. Crazy.
By Lew
December 10, 2008 10:38 AM | Link to this
SeaAtl-If you’re so down on Francoeur, it might just do you some good to pick up a copy of the new Chop Talk magazine. There’s a good Patty Rasmussen interview with Frenchy in there. He’s highly motivated to have a breakout year. I for one, am not going to count him out. Maybe you should read it. Might just change your mind, or at least give you some hope.
By Lew
December 10, 2008 10:41 AM | Link to this
DoubleDay-He could make that much, but likely only with an incentive-laden contract. He won’t make that much in base salary.
By Salty
December 10, 2008 10:42 AM | Link to this
Lew, the jerk? No way…can’t see it! Impossible! LOL!!!!
By McFann O –[zzz]
December 10, 2008 10:43 AM | Link to this
22oz—
I haven’t heard such good baseball news since the Braves gave McCann a six year contract!
Yee-haw!! Where’d you hear that??
By McFann O –[zzz]
December 10, 2008 10:44 AM | Link to this
BTW—Congrats to Tommy Hanson! Can’t wait till he’s a Big Leaguer!!
By Voice of Reason
December 10, 2008 10:45 AM | Link to this
By DoubleDay December 10, 2008 10:22 AM | Link to this How is Smoltz going to get more than 7 million? How is he even going to get 7 million? He is going to turn 42 in may of next year, just coming off surgery of his throwing arm….Just because he made 14 million last year doesn’t mean that he will make half that by using “…Glavine as a yardstick” They were hurt and are coming off injuries. Plus they are old in baseball years… No way Smoltz is getting 9-10 million a year…
First, if he’s less than healthy, there will be NO contract. I stated that. And if he’s healthy, you think he can’t get $7M? Where have you been? A 45 year old Randy Johnson, with his own health concerns, is expected to sign for $10M. You don’t think a 42 year old Smoltz can get $10M? Jason friggin’ Marquis will make over $9M, for goodness sake. It’s called market value, and if you don’t think a healthy Smoltz can’t command market value, and maybe slightly less on a “hometown discount”, you’re not in the real word.
By GermanBravesFan
December 10, 2008 10:47 AM | Link to this
Don’t Trade Francoeur - The Yankees got their man in CC and are now turning to Lowe since they probably consider him more durable and dependable than Burnett. They are less desperate now to sign Burnett than they were before they signed Sabathia. I didn’t read that anywhere, it’s just my opinion.
By Voice of Reason
December 10, 2008 10:48 AM | Link to this
Lew: Agreed on FrenchFry. I can’ t sour on him after one bad, and it was really bad, year. He has a wealth of talent if he can harness it. A renewed commitment to “baseball” strong and not “football” strong will help, too. If only Pendleton doesn’t screw it up too bad…
By Lew
December 10, 2008 10:51 AM | Link to this
Salty-Dude, I apologize in major fashion. I thought I had sent your Wurlitzer to you months ago-I found it in a stack of art that had been pushed aside. I mailed it to you yesterday. Again, I’m sorry. You should have it tomorrow or Friday.
By 22oz
December 10, 2008 10:54 AM | Link to this
McFann, i heard it on a espnradio update yesterday during the Bill Shanks radio show.
By KCizzle
December 10, 2008 10:54 AM | Link to this
I have a feeling that Furcal is holding back and rejecting offers for a reason. I have a feeling that Wren has talked to him about moving Escobar and the possibility to come back with the braves. Alot of teams in the running for Furcal but i have a feeling he will be with the braves and his old friend bobby cox
By JR
December 10, 2008 10:54 AM | Link to this
Word is that if and probably when the Cubs land Peavy they may want to shop Zambrano. Would you Braves fans like to see him in Hotlanta? The Cubs need a SS (YE) so they can move Theriot to 2B. Just bored and thought I would throw that out there for discussion.
Also, why did we never pursue Derek Lowe? Did he not have any interest in us or vice versa. I know he’s older but he’s a durable sinkerballer.
By BraveTiger
December 10, 2008 10:55 AM | Link to this
DOB - Know that it appears that CC is going to the Yanks, do you see AJ making his decision or do you think he’ll still wait?
By KCizzle
December 10, 2008 10:59 AM | Link to this
i would love to see Zambrano with the Braves, however asking price would probably be too high for an injury prone guy. He also doesnt fit the Braves stereotype of getting classy players in the system
By flange1
December 10, 2008 11:00 AM | Link to this
Morning All,
Sounds like good news on the CC front. CC to the Yankees with Lowe headed that way will hopefully turn the Yankees attention away from AJ and let the Braves step in.
If Lowe goes to the Yankees too, expect some action from the Red Sox, Phillies and Dodgers on AJ..
I have a feeling that with so little news for so long, that all at once a group of trades and signings will happen back to back to back.
That would be great for all of us news-starved fans!
By McFann O –[zzz]
December 10, 2008 11:00 AM | Link to this
22oz—
Ah, OK! Thanks! That’s sweet news!
Obviously I was exaggerating just a touch in my 10:43…Just a touch…
; )
By Scott
December 10, 2008 11:01 AM | Link to this
Not a huge Francouer fan, but why all the hate? He had a bad year! Why would you give up on him now at his price and potential reward? You go out and get a LF that supplements his struggles from last year and hope for the best. If he struggles this year then you look to Heyward, who is unproven.
By GT
December 10, 2008 11:02 AM | Link to this
Given than the only free agent starting pitchers on the market this winter are #2 caliber with questionable health (now that Sabathia has signed), wouldn’t it be better for the Braves to commit to a 2-3 year deal for Ben Sheets, rather than a 4-5 year deal for Burnett, for arguably the same annual salary?
$15M/yr for 5 years for Burnett is an awfully frightening move. Does anyone really think Burnett is going to be a frontline starter in year 4 or 5 of this potential contract?
Sheets, I would argue, is also closer to #1 caliber material (if healthy) than Burnett.
By Lew
December 10, 2008 11:06 AM | Link to this
Raisins-I think Frenchy will break out big time. Anyone who thinks this kid has a bad attitude should really go read that Chop Talk article. I think they’ll be quite surprised with how last season affected him.
He’s completely changed his offseason regimen and he also addresses all the issues we spoke of last year on the blog. He thinks he’s capable of a .280 30HR season-and I’m not going to tell him he can’t do it. He heard ALL those boos and derogatory comments.
By KC
December 10, 2008 11:07 AM | Link to this
Sabathia signing with the Yanks is great news (for the Braves)! As is the reported rumor that the Red Sox are the front runners for Teixeira. Spending all that money on Tex might make them a little less anxious to bid away for AJ.
How about a rotation of: Burnett, Jurrjens, Vasquez, Smoltz, Hanson?
Sounds good to me y’all.
By 2010
December 10, 2008 11:07 AM | Link to this
I hate to admit it, but we should be looking at 2009 as a rebuilding year. Can we really expect to compete with the Phillies and the Mets next year? If everything falls into place, maybe. But, that’s usually not how it works. I think Hudson and Smolttz being out for extended periods will kill us, even if we add AJ. And, if we somehow make the playoffs, can we go into a 5 or 7 game series and take out the Cubs, who with Peavy, will have the best rotation since the early 90’s Braves. And, if we accomplish that, can we compete against the Yankees or Red Sox after all of the offseason moves they will make. The thing is, all of these teams were better than us to begin with, and most plan to add more than we will. We should not overpay for a risky free agent pitcher who has only won more than 12 games once in his career. That could handcuff us for years to come. I would rather have 1 world championship than 10 division titles. Timing is everything. Look to 2010!
By McFann O –[zzz]
December 10, 2008 11:07 AM | Link to this
JR Would you Braves fans like to see [Zambrano] in Hotlanta?
Not really…
By DAP
December 10, 2008 11:08 AM | Link to this
voice of reason randy johnson might have health concerns…but he pitched last year. smoltz did not. johnson knows hes coming back in 2009, smoltz isnt even sure of that yet. (though its almost certain). comparing smoltz to johnson and marquis doesnt really prove your point, although i dont disagree with you.
smoltz could make $10mil, but i think only on an incentive based contract, because he is coming off a serious injury at a old baseball age.
By Efrim
December 10, 2008 11:14 AM | Link to this
Sheets, I would argue, is also closer to #1 caliber material (if healthy) than Burnett.
I’d rather give Burnett 5/75 than Sheets 2/30 or 3/45. Sheets does nothing for me. Chronic back problems as well as arm injuries. Burnett has had, one arm problem in his career. Sheets back is the issue.
Now, if we get shut out on Burnett? Than yes, I’ll give Sheets the money he desires.
Braves simply can’t head into next season with Vasquez and Jurrjens as their 1/2. No one will take them seriously. And I am against trading any top prospects for a pitcher if we miss out on Burnett. Because I’d rather spend the money on Sheets. So I guess I don’t hate giving the money to Sheets, but I’d still rather give the money to Burnett.
By DoubleDay
December 10, 2008 11:17 AM | Link to this
*By David O’Brien
December 6, 2008 3:57 PM | Link to this
Don’t forget, with Vazquez making $11 mil a year and Smoltz making about 8-10, with the signing of Burnett if they land him, that pretty much eats up the $40 mil a yearBobby’s Cox
You’re too high on Smoltz, I’m pretty certain. Quite a bit too high, probably. You forget he’s coming back from major surgery after missing most of the season. And he won’t be able to prove himself in games before signing a contract. There are going to still be too many questions about his long-term health, his ability to pitch an entire season, to give him that kind of guaranteed money.*
Voice of reason: That sounds pretty familiar right? Maybe you know something no one else knows, including DOB.
By Salty
December 10, 2008 11:17 AM | Link to this
Lew…no need to apologize…really! I knew you’d get to it when you could. At the time, you were dealing with serious eye issues…health comes first!
Now, see what you’ve done? You’ve trampled all over your ‘Jerk’ image! LOL!
By Lew
December 10, 2008 11:19 AM | Link to this
Flange-Your CD’s will be there tomorrow or Friday.
KCizzle- Another reason (other than the fact that the Cubs would be And Idiots for letting him go) that Zambrano won’t be a Brave, even if he were traded-he is owed an average of almost $19 mil per year over the next four seasons.
By Steve from OH
December 10, 2008 11:20 AM | Link to this
Reading this morning’s comments directly after reading last night’s comments made me chuckle. Seriously folks, we’re not out of the Burnett sweepstakes until he signs his name elsewhere. I still think we’re the frontrunners.
Lew:
I agree on Frenchy. Not gonna sign off to a .280-30 season, but I’ve got faith he’ll be significantly better this season. Didn’t read the ChopTalk article, but I know the kid’s a hard worker. Hope it pays off for him. I’m rooting for him, unlike a few others coughJoeMcough (just kidding, lol).
By Efrim
December 10, 2008 11:22 AM | Link to this
I wonder if the Phillies could make a late move in for Burnett.
By Lee in S GA
December 10, 2008 11:22 AM | Link to this
I know Smoltz says he is feeling pretty good but I just don’t see him being thrown back into the starting rotation especially at the beginning of the season. I see him in the bullpen. I am just not going to count / pencil him in as a starter and I don’t think the Braves will either. I suppose the major difference would be if an ace is acquired he would be a 4th or 5th starter. That alone sounds strange enough.
By Dan_in_NC
December 10, 2008 11:24 AM | Link to this
I think the Yankees signing of Sabathia will make the Burnett talks go a lot faster. I honestly don’t think the Yanks will get AJ now…so if you look at it, this could be our rotation on opening day…
AJ, Jurrjens, Vasquez, Morton/JoJo, Campillo/Smoltz.
Personally I think Morton is better than Reyes, but Bobby will want a lefty somewhere in the rotation.
By Salty
December 10, 2008 11:24 AM | Link to this
CD’s? Lew, you’re giving CD’s? At what interest rate!?! $$ is good!
By BravesFanInRockies
December 10, 2008 11:27 AM | Link to this
Lew (11:06)
I really hope Frenchy will break out, and return to 2007 production or better.
My fear is that the best attitude in the world and a premier conditioning program won’t fix what ails him — and that’s a terrible eye at the plate and a not-so-smooth swing.
I’ll sit patiently through the first half of 2009 and give him a chance (OK, I probably won’t). But I’m not expecting miracles.
By Mark
December 10, 2008 11:27 AM | Link to this
*December 10, 2008 11:07 AM | Link to this
I hate to admit it, but we should be looking at 2009 as a rebuilding year. Can we really expect to compete with the Phillies and the Mets next year? If everything falls into place, maybe. But, that’s usually not how it works. I think Hudson and Smolttz being out for extended periods will kill us, even if we add AJ. And, if we somehow make the playoffs, can we go into a 5 or 7 game series and take out the Cubs, who with Peavy, will have the best rotation since the early 90’s Braves. And, if we accomplish that, can we compete against the Yankees or Red Sox after all of the offseason moves they will make. The thing is, all of these teams were better than us to begin with, and most plan to add more than we will. We should not overpay for a risky free agent pitcher who has only won more than 12 games once in his career. That could handcuff us for years to come. I would rather have 1 world championship than 10 division titles. Timing is everything. Look to 2010!*
No, in all likelihood, the Braves won’t be able to compete for a championship next year, but if they add the right pieces, they can take some major strides and maybe even get a taste of the post season .. then make a real run in 2010 when they have hudson back and a few of the younger guys are ready to contribute.
By Lew
December 10, 2008 11:31 AM | Link to this
GT-Sheets also has a much more extensive injury history than Burnett does. At least AJ has had his Tommy Johnson surgery and had scar tissue break up. Sheets is well on his way to that point (needing the surgery) and is quite likely to attain that state. I think AJ at five is a better bet than Sheets for one or two-much less three.
By Lee in S GA
December 10, 2008 11:35 AM | Link to this
McFann - got to agree with you about not wanting Zambrano in Atlanta. It would be hard to picture McCann being his catcher also.
By GT
December 10, 2008 11:37 AM | Link to this
“I’d rather give Burnett 5/75 than Sheets 2/30 or 3/45.”
Both had career years in 2008. I’m not overly excited about Sheets, but I think his potential is better than Burnett’s. Maybe I still have his performance against ATL the last 3 years in my mind. However, I think not overpaying on subpar talent is a direction the Braves need to be heading right now, and not jumping on getting “the best of the rest at any cost”.
If Burnett’s contract is structured like most, it will be 5/75, but backloaded so that he’ll probably earn $40-$45M over the last 2 years. Good luck trying to trade that off the books…
By KC
December 10, 2008 11:40 AM | Link to this
Lee in S GA: No one is counting on Smoltz. However, no one in the Braves organization has ever counted him out, and now there is real reason for optimism.
Unfortunately, I think there is a very good chance that he will be in the rotation on opening day.
I say “unfortunately”, not because I don’t want him in there… because I absolutely do want him there! I just don’t want him in there on opening day.
If he proves this winter and early in the spring that he feels good enough to start, and still has his stuff… I wish the Braves would say “GREAT! Here’s a fishing pole… see you in June.”
I think what Roger Clemens did his last couple of seasons was really smart. Don’t even jump in until about 1/3 of the way through the season. That way, Smoltz might actually have something left in the tank in September, and if all goes well… October.
It won’t happen though, I’m sorry to say. If Smoltz can come back, he’ll be in there from the start. And if he misses a number of starts throughout the season (due to nothing serious), it will actually be a blessing. You can’t expect him to make 30 starts and be ready to help you in Oct. That is, assuming he comes back at all… which again, the Braves aren’t counting on, but it looks good right now.
By David O'Brien
December 10, 2008 11:42 AM | Link to this
NEW BLOG
By N8
December 10, 2008 11:49 AM | Link to this
Scott
“Not a huge Francouer fan, but why all the hate? He had a bad year!”
Because as long as he’s here, and as long as Bobby is hear, he’d literally have to die or become paralyzed to get pulled from the lineup, not matter HOW BAD he’s playing.
Once Bobby locks in on his guys, they’re like Supreme Court Judges or State Representatives.
Bobby (and Wren) already proved this last year, when they initially appeared to have the ballz to send him down to the minors, only to call him back up after two days. How long did Andruw have to suck before they pulled him from the lineup? Oh, that’s right…. Bobby NEVER pulled him from the lineup!
How about Corky Miller?
Bobby is a “players” manager, and that has many advantages for the guys, due to them knowing their manager “has their back”, and allows them to work out of a slump.
But Jeff is not in a slump. He did not “have a bad year”, as you put it. He’s on a 3 year downward spiral in the power department (29 to 19 to 11) from 06-08. Sure he had over 100 RBI in 06 and 07, but dude had almost 650 AB’s each of those years. With the lineup around him, hard NOT to have 100 RBI in 650 AB’s.
While it might be too early to “give up” on him. I say better to give up too soon, than too late with the OF talent we have coming soon.
I’m not a big HR guy, but anything less than 30 HR and 110 RBI from Jeff this year is gonna not be good enough.
And that’s not even getting into the fact that his arm seemed to go to hell last year. At least in the past with him (and Andruw), their defense could save games when their bat was quiet. Last year, he was bruttal at the plate & in the field.
GT
“Sheets, I would argue, is also closer to #1 caliber material (if healthy) than Burnett.”
Agree. And somebody posted last night, that Sheets has only missed 5 more starts over the past 5 years due to injury.
ERA’s are pretty close. And obviously Sheets is a K-machine.
Either guy is a risk.
Maybe the Braves can get Sheets for less money, and between him and Smoltz (at a discounted rate), they equal out to one dominant starter for a price that is STILL less than CC Sabathia.
Then if they are BOTH healthy (slim chance of Smoltz and Sheets both making over 30 starts next year, IMO), you’ve got two Aces.
Combo that up with JJJ and Vazquez’ innings, and young Hanson slipping in at some point, and you’ve got one helluva rotation.
Of course, Hanson could “bust” in his rookie year, JJJ could have the sophomore slump, Smoltz could go down again as could Sheets and we’d be left with Vazquez.
Talk about a feast or famine rotation. LOL!
But as I said, I agree with you. All things equal and both guys healthy, I’d hand the ball to Sheets in a big game over Burnett, any day of the week.
By Voice of Reason
December 10, 2008 12:07 PM | Link to this
DAP:
I wasn’t really comparing Smoltz to Marquis or Johnson in terms of performance, only in terms of market for starting pitching. As I have repeatedly said, Smoltz won’t even be pitching if he’s less than healthy, and won’t be extended a contract offer unless he proves same. But if they reach the contract stage, you know his agents will pull those names and figures, among others, into their negotiating argument.
By JS
December 10, 2008 12:23 PM | Link to this
Face it people…unless the Braves develop some quality major league talent in the farm system they will never be better than a .500 team. Free agency is not a cure all…it’s to help offset 1 or 2 weaknesses at best. The Braves have a laundry list of weaknesses.