AJC > Sports > Braves > Blog > Archives > 2008 > December > 08 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USMaddux will be missed; could Ankiel be a Brave?
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Las Vegas — He walked among us as just another guy, with an rather unimpressive physique and a wonderful whacked-out, self-deprecating sense of humor.
But atop the pitcher’s mound, Greg Maddux was not just another guy. Or even just another major league ace.
He was a pitching god. The best I’ve ever seen. An absolute master. The smartest, craftiest, and most aware baseball player - not just pitcher - that I ever had the privilege of covering or just watching.
Oh, and did I mention, a joy to be around? He really was. Made you glad you did something like this for a living, he was that special.
And yes, there was that penchant for sick humor and practical jokes, most of them unfit to be discussed here (teammates knew not to reach into the bin of sanitary socks without looking first, for Maddux was known to leave something, uh, unsanitary).
I could tell you about how he (allegedly) urinated in the hot tub when he was a young Cubs pitcher, that story told to me years ago by Andre Dawson, who was in the big tub with a couple of other Cubs veterans when young Maddux informed them that he’d relieved himself in it a few minutes earlier.
Most of the stories are funnier, but also more offensive.
Maddux was the neighbor most of us would probably like to hang out with, to watch a ballgame and have a beer with.
It was remarkable to think that one who was capable of being so immature (in a good way) at times, could be so ferocious and dedicated when it came to pitching, and so brilliant when discussing any aspect of the game, not just pitching.
He was a relentless competitor, pitching through aches and seldom producing less than an exemplary, often overwhelming, performance.
“Greg Maddux is the best artist I ever saw paint a baseball game,” the Hall of Fame pitcher Don Sutton told me this morning. “And the most secure, confident-within-himself pitcher I watched work.
“Some of the things he could forsee happening in a game, and the ways he could manipulate hitters, I’ve never seen anyone else do. I wish I could have played with him - through osmosis, I probably would have won 50 more games. He may be the smartest baseball man I’ve ever been around.”
Sutton was a Braves broadcaster, of course, during the Big Three heyday of Braves pitching, when Maddux, Glavine and Smoltz ruled the roost in the majors’ best rotations, year after year after year.
“That group there in Atlanta was amazing,” Sutton said. “They would watch every pitch and dissect, which you don’t see other pitching staffs do. Maddux, Smoltz and Glavine made each other better.
“In my mind, the Phi Beta Kappa of the group was Maddux. He was absolutely brilliant.”
Well said, Don.
Yes, the broke the mold when them made Maddux. I don’t expect to ever see another pitcher as great as him, much as I don’t expect to see a basketball player as great as Michael Jordan.
I am certain I will never know another pitcher as smart and unassuming, and with such a sense of humor.
I filed a long story that should be posted at our website soon, but here’s a few other Maddux quotes that didn’t make it in the story.
Maddux on:
His years with the Braves: ”Very special. We won all 11 years I was in Atlanta. They won before I got there and won every year I was there. And just to be around that atmosphere … I remember Bobby talking about in spring training, that we were getting ready for the postseason. We weren’t getting ready for the season, we were getting ready for the postseason. We did a little bit less in spring training because we knew our season was going to be seven months, not six.
“We had that winning attitude back in February. Bobby, thank you, for everything you taught me about the game. Leo as well, and all the coaches. I just had a lot of coaches that taught me so much about the game, that hopefully I’ll use in the future and pass down as time goes on.”
On whether he ever wondered what might’ve been if he never left Chicago:: “A little bit. Not a whole lot. You know, when I left Chicago I was not ready to leave. Buy sometimes the grass is greener on the other side. You know, I got a chance to win in Atlanta, and win a lot.
“To share that with guys like Smoltzy, Glav, Avery, Kevin Millwood, all the guys I had a chance to pitch with … it was pretty cool. And just to go there and actually learn how to have fun, and to play golf between starts. Smoltz always had something set up [to play golf]; that was pretty cool.
“To meet people from all over the country on the golf course, and at the same time win ever year, and to have such an enjoyment to go to the park every day. I think winning creates that, and it was nice to be a part of that.”
On possibly coaching or managing in the future: “You know, I might. Right now I want to take a year off and spend time with the family, do things that I haven’t been able to do because of baseball, and see if I like it. I assume I’ll like it, but I also don’t know how bad I’m gonna miss the game.
“I mean, baseball is all I know. I don’t really know a whole lot about anything, but I think I know a few things about baseball. I’m gonna miss it, and hopefully I don’t miss it too much. I haven’t gotten to that point yet. Right now it’s kind of a long offseason for me, doing things I’ve done for the last 20 offseasons. Nothing’s really different for me [yet].
On the Braves-Mets rivalry and games at Shea Stadium: “It was fun. It was always fun to go to New York. We had Chipper on our team, and Chipper always used to do big things there. It was fun watching the guys play there, and it was also fun being part of it.
“Shea Stadium is one of the best places to play baseball, and especially when the Mets were good. For us to go there, I’ll just never forget it. There was a smell, there were just some things about Shea Stadium that felt like, this is a pretty cool place to be.”
On his amazing run in the ‘90s:: I guess you just get locked in. You’re comfortable with what you’re trying to do with the baseball…. There weren’t too many pitchers that threw the way I threw, and hitters didn’t see it a lot. I think that was a big advantage at the time. You know, you just kind of have a couple of good games and start on a roll from there.”
On learning from Tom Glavine:: “I think probably the biggest thing I learned pitching alongside Glavine, was to realize you don’t have to be 100 percent to win. You have to take the ball and you have to go out there. That’s what he taught me. Because before I got to Atlanta, I had always felt pretty good. Physically, it was no big deal making a start.
“Sometimes it’s really easy to say, I need another day or two. But in Atlanta, we pitched. I think Tommy led the way with that. He showed everybody that if you go out there, if you could throw the ball over the plate you had a chance to win, no matter how bad you felt. That’s probably one of the biggest things I learned from Glav, was how to compete when you’re not feeling your best.”
On pitch movement: “I was just very fortunate. When I was 15 or 16 years old, I had a pitching coach, Ralph Medar, who taught me that movement was more important than velocity. And I believed him. I don’t know why I believed him, but I believed him. At a young age, he taught me about movement and started learning how to pitch. I wasn’t learning how to throw; I threw hard enough. But I learned that movement was more important than velocity, and changing speeds was more important than velocity, and location was more important than velocity…. It just kind of went from there.”
On what he’d think about being called the Greatest Living Pitcher, after someone mentioned to him that Joe DiMaggio used to request that he [DiMaggio] be referred to as the Greatest Living Ballplayer in his latter years before he died:
“Well, it’d be a nice compliment. I’m very proud of what I did on the baseball field, but I never really considerd myself as things like that. I like to think I’m the same person I was 20 years ago. Just a few things have changed. But as far as how I think of myself, I don’t think of myself that way.”
On what he’d do to improve the game if he were King of Baseball for a day:
“There’s really not a lot you can do to improve it. The game is almost perfect the way it is. I think this game’s played now the way it was played 100 years ago. I think that’s the beauty of it. It might just be a little faster, that’s about it. But I think the game itself, there’s really nothing wrong with it. Players are probably better now than they were before, but they’ll probably be better in 20 years than they are now. That’s just the way it is. It’s hard to change something that’s pretty close to perfect.
His thoughts about the Hall of Fame in five years: I don’t really have any thoughts right now at this moment. There’s a lot of good players in there. I don’t really have any thoughts. I know my son’s got a tournament there [in Cooperstown, N.Y.] next summer. I’m looking forward to going there to watch him play, and hopefully get a chance to look around.”
On one of the secrets of his success; “I would like to think my wife. Part of why I had so much success on the field was, for me, everything was very simple for me at home. If I got home late after a road trip, I was allowed to sleep in. On days I was pitching, I was left alone and had lunch made for me at 2 o’clock before I went to the park. I had everything taken care of me away from the park, so the only thing I had to worry about anything was when I was on the mound. For that I thank you [look at his wife, Kathy, in the front row].
Then Maddux drew laughs when he added that he hoped his wife would continue making him lunch every day for a while.
On what he’ll miss most now that he’s retired: “I’ll miss the game. I’ll miss all of it. I’ll miss pitching. I’ll miss hitting, running the bases. I’ll miss sitting on the bench and trying to get what pitch is coming next and where it’s going to be hit. I’ll miss those kinds of things.
“Obviously I’ll miss the four days off between starts and I’ll miss hanging out with the guys. I really enjoyed playing golf on the road over the years with the guys. That made it even more enjoyable when you’d go to the ballpark, because you’d have a break from just sitting in your hotel room all day waiting for the game to start.
“I’ll miss the plane flights, and the poker games on the flights. That was fun. Just hanging out with the guys. Spring training was always fun. Spring training, to me, was a blast. Spring training is where you get to go and do baseball stuff. Down in Orlando we’d spend a lot of time going to amusement parks with the family, taking the kids to do all that.
“So many things that go in baseball have nothing to do with the first through ninth innings that I’ll miss. And I’m sure as time goes by, I’ll miss them even more.”
His closing remarks at the news conference: “Again, I just want to say thank you for everything. The game has given me and my family so much, that I just want to say thank you. And the one thing I hope is, I hope that I gave back. I played the game the way I want my teammates to play it. Again, thank you for everything. I’ll miss it. Thanks you.”
Me, I’ll really miss Greg Maddux. The game will miss him. Everything about him. Bet you all feel the same.
OK, back to the meetings: We’re in a bit of a holding pattern regarding the pitching pursuit, waiting for an A.J. Burnett decision. But I am hearing things that lead me to think that the free agent right-hander might make a decision this week and not necessarily wait for CC Sabathia to decide first.
We’ll see about that. I’d guess it’ll take a guaranteed five-year offer from the Braves to make that happen, for otherwise A.J. seems more likely to wait and see if Sabathia spurns the Yankees and Brian Cashman decided to throw more money and a guaranteed fifth year at A.J. in order to make sure the Yanks aren’t shut out by the few aces available.
The Braves last week offered A.J. a four-year deal with a fifth-year option, worth at least $15 mill annually. They’ve given off signals that they would make that fifth-year guaranteed if that’s absolutely necessary to get Burnett signed, but they obviously would prefer to avoid that, given his DL stints for elbow and shoulder soreness in the past.
Insurers generally only insure contracts for three years, and clubs have to renew the policy after that period, provided the player is healthy. If a pitcher got hurt in, say, the third year of a five-year guaranteed deal worth $15 mill annually, well, that would be a potentially big blow for a team that has any sort of payroll restrictions (i.e., probably any team not named the Yankees).
The power-bat pursuit: Though Frank Wren has indicated the Braves might not make a deal for a run-producing outfielder until spring training or even during the season, there are indications they could get it done before then with a Cardinals outfielder not named Ludwick.
How does Rick Ankiel sound? The former lefty pitcher-turned-center fielder is available, and the Cardinals are said to prefer trading him instead of Ludwick because Ludwick will still be cheap for several more years. Braves would probably have to give up at least Kelly Johnson to get Ludwck, and the Cardinals might even demand Yunel Escobar.
But not for Ankiel, who’s eligible for free agency after the 2009 season, and a Scott Boras client the Cardinals probably have no confidence they could afford to re-sign.
The Braves might prefer Ankiel over Ludwick anyway, since Ludwick’s 37-homer, 113-RBI season in 2008 was far and away his career best, and at age 29. The Braves, like other teams, have questions as to whether Ludwick could reasonably be expected to replicate that sort of performance, given that his previous bests in an injury-slowed big-league career were 14 homers and 52 RBI in 2007.
Ankiel has 36 homers and 110 RBI in 584 at-bats over two seasons since returning to the majors as an outfielder, after his promising pitching career went awry several years ago when he could no longer throw strikes consistently.
There is plenty of reason to believe Ankiel will continue developing as a hitter after batting .264 with 25 homers and 71 RBI in 120 games last season. And the other important thing that separates him from most available outfielders: He is strong defensively, in center and right field (and presumably in left, though he’s played that the least for St. Louis).
But he’s eligible for free agency after the upcoming season, which is why the Cardinals, looking for pitching in return, don’t really expect to get a promising starter for Ankiel. Maybe that take a proven young reliever as the principle in a deal?
The Braves could pencil in Ankiel for CF or LF in 2009, and could have him or Jordan Schafer ready to play RF if, for whatever reason, Jeff Francoeur doesn’t bounce back from his poor 2008 season and gets dealt eventually.
Cox said Monday that he thinks Francoeur will bounce back and drive in 100 runs, etc. But hey, what else is he going to say?
Frank Wren reiterated Monday that team officials see LF Matt Diaz fitting on the Braves in some capacity.
Thinking aloud here, maybe Ankiel could move between a couple of outfield positions and Diaz could play a lot against lefties (Ankiel hit .224 with a .716 OPS against lefties, compared to .279 with an .891 OPS against righties).
The Braves continue to express interest in Seattle free agent corner outfielder Raul Ibanez, 36, a .286 career hitter with more than 20 homers in each of the past four seasons, 30-plus doubles for seven straight seasons, and 338 RBI in the past three seasons.
Problem is, Ibanez is getting plenty of other interest from some big-market teams, and could end up commanding a deal as long as three years and for perhaps $10 mill or more annually. That’s more years and dollars than the Braves want to pay for a merely serviceable defensive player of his age.
Also hearing Brewers shortstop J.J. Hardy and free agent Rafael Furcal still being mentioned in connection with the Braves again, which leads me to believe the Braves are indeed still at least talking to teams interested in Escobar or deals that might possibly include him.
(Personally, I’d trade him for nothing short of an ace pitcher.)
And though I’ve heard nothing about them revisiting talks for Jake Peavy, wouldn’t surprise me if Padres GM Kevin Towers came knocking at Frank Wren’s door (or at least ringing his cell) if things stay stalled with other teams that seem to be getting colder on Peavy all the time.
One way or another, I’m really starting to get a feeling that Escobar could be traded this winter.
Blogmeister addendum: Right after I wrote that last sentence about Escobar, Cox provided this quote that could certainly be viewed as a reason to believe the Braves won’t trade Escobar:
“I think he’s a special talent, and I certainly want him on our team,” Cox said. “He’s as good a shortstop as we’ve ever had here. He can do so much. He’s going to hit right at .300, I think, ever year. He’s got the type of mechanics that allows me to say that. He stays inside the ball so well, and he’s an extremely gifted shortstop. A pair of the best hands you’d ever see, and he’s got a great arm. And he’s strong. If he wants to, he could hit in the 20s [home runs].”
”THE HIGHWAYMAN” by Jimmy Webb
I was a highwayman
Along the coach roads I did ride
With sword and pistol by my side
Many a young maid lost her baubles to my trade
Many a soldier shed his life blood on my blade
The bastards hung me in the spring of ‘25
But I am still alive
I was a sailor
I was born upon the tide
And with the sea I did abide
I sailed a schooner ‘round the horn to Mexico
I went aloft to furl the mainsail in a blow
And when the yards broke off they said that I got killed
But I am living still
I was a dam builder
Across the river deep and wide
Where steel and water did collide
A place called Boulder on the wild Colorado
I slipped and fell into the wet concrete below
They buried me in that great tomb that knows no sound
But I am still around.
I’ll always be around, and around, and around, and around, and around…
I’ll fly a starship
Across the Universe divide
And when I reach the other side
I’ll find a place to rest my spirit if I can
Perhaps I may become a highwayman again
Or I may simply be a single drop of rain
But I will remain
And I’ll be back again
and again, and again, and again, and again….
Comments
By 18 Wheels of Love
December 8, 2008 7:09 PM | Link to this
Peterbilt
Peterbilt
By Johnny Rocker
December 8, 2008 7:09 PM | Link to this
go braves!
By Mike S
December 8, 2008 7:10 PM | Link to this
Personally, I would prefer trading for Ludwick over Ankiel (or Hermida or Hart).
By doc
December 8, 2008 7:14 PM | Link to this
i had a felling something might be brewing, to repost:
DOB just read the articel on mad dog retiring, what a class act from start to finish. only thing good about his retirement is that he seemed to leave the door open to becoming a coach or more down the road. it would be fantastic if he were to bring such a demeanor back to the game.
on another note i will be in las vegas wednesday to saturday afternoon staying at the venetian. would be pleased to buy a round and a cigar if you have the time dob and arent hob nobbing too much. i’ll be there for a conference.
btw, excellent article about maddox going.
By 18 Wheels of Love
December 8, 2008 7:18 PM | Link to this
Maddux in the hot tub….
“It’s all tubes!”
By Ernest
December 8, 2008 7:19 PM | Link to this
Has anyone discussed Bobby Abreu as a possibility for left field? He could probably hold down that spot for 2-3 years until our baby braves on the farm are ready for the big leagues. His stats look good and we should not have to give up a player for him.
By nolie
December 8, 2008 7:21 PM | Link to this
Ankiel,Hermida, Hart? These are the proven run producers that Wren claimed we we going after? No wonder I’m as cynical as i am. ;-)
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
December 8, 2008 7:21 PM | Link to this
If the Braves have to offer a guaranteed 5th year to get a deal done and avoid the Yankees and their unlimited resources getting involved, I say do it. Like I said last night, I am not sure why there is a buzz that AJ could sign before CC, but there obviously is. I hope it happens…like tonight!
By ChopChopHipHop
December 8, 2008 7:22 PM | Link to this
“”DOB”“, if the Braves deal for Ankiel, do they also go after Raul Ibanez? I’m assuming they deal for JJ Hardy instead of going after Rafael Furcal.
By Goodoleboy58
December 8, 2008 7:23 PM | Link to this
I would prefer to get Hart… He’d be a perfect fit for what we are looking for
By Joe M.
December 8, 2008 7:23 PM | Link to this
MetsBlog:
Meanwhile, in a recent on-air report for ESPN News, ESPN.com’s Peter Gammons said representatives for A.J. Burnett will meet with the Braves this week in Las Vegas, in hopes of quickly working on an agreement.
…the buzz from Vegas suggests burnett likes the idea of pitching in Atlanta, and could end up signing a four-year deal, despite rumors that he requires a fifth guaranteed season…that, plus no other teams appears willing to give it to him…
Gammons and Steve Phillips seem to think the Braves are close, while Jayson Stark seems to think the Yankees are getting in on the Braves’ Burnett turf. We’ll see.
Kelly Johnson for one year of Rick Ankiel seems a rip-off. Ankiel is a free agent after 2009 and his agent is Scott Boras. I thought it’d be an okay deal because I didn’t think the Cardinals would actually demand one of the Braves’ two good incumbent middle infielders for one year of Rick Ankiel. Sigh.
The Braves still don’t plan to trade both middle infielders this offseason, right?
By flylikeeagle05
December 8, 2008 7:23 PM | Link to this
Outstanding post. I enjoyed watching Maddux, Glavine, and Smoltz throughout my childhood. My dad introduced me to the Braves in the last 1980’s and been an avid Braves supporter ever since. I have seen few Maddux games at Turner Field and always enjoyed watching him pitching. I certainly hope we can get another pitcher that is durable as Mad Dog. Go Braves!
By Don!
December 8, 2008 7:24 PM | Link to this
One good thing about Greg Maddux: You KNOW he never used steroids.
Another good thing about Greg Maddux: The commercial he did with Tom Glavine: “Chicks Dig The Long Ball.”
Yet another good thing about Greg Maddux: He quit when he felt like it.
Heck, I can think of literally one hundred good things to say about Greg Maddux before I get to his wins, ERA, Cy Young awards, Gold Gloves and every other thing that comes with being the BEST pitcher in my lifetime … but the very best thing about Greg Maddux?
1995 World Series Champion.
Thanks for the memories Mad Dog!
Later,
Don!
By Psg81
December 8, 2008 7:24 PM | Link to this
U think maybe the braves may believe escobars shoulder may continue to be an issue with him and may be trying to trade him while his value is still high
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
December 8, 2008 7:25 PM | Link to this
In addition to the ESPN article stating the Yanks are requesting a meeting with AJ’s agent and willing to pay more than the Braves:
HEYMAN at SI:
LAS VEGAS — The Yankees are prepared to top the Braves’ reported $60 million four-year offer to star free-agent pitcher A.J. Burnett, according to people familiar with their thinking.
While the Yankees had been reluctant to give Burnett the full-fledged five-year deal he seeks,. they seem likely to offer a four-year deal for about $64 million. Burnett is being purused by the Jays, Orioles and Nationals as well.
Seriously, if we do not sign AJ, it will NOT be a good offseason! There is no other ace available, and we could get Barry Bonds in his prime to play LF, but without an ace; we are in serious trouble.
By Chuck James is solid until the 6th!! (Formerly Steve-O)
December 8, 2008 7:26 PM | Link to this
Just a few quick things on A.J. Burnett
First off watch this clip ( of his CG SHO against the Yanks late in the year. He makes multiple Perennial All-Stars look like Rookie Ball players K’ing A-Rod 3 times, Jeter a few, Giambi a few and made Damon look like he was 11 years old. DOB I believed you before but havn’t seen him pitch
By Chuck James is solid until the 6th!! (Formerly Steve-O)
December 8, 2008 7:27 PM | Link to this
Sorry my post was accidentlly posted early…
By Joe M.
December 8, 2008 7:31 PM | Link to this
SI:
LAS VEGAS — The Yankees are prepared to top the Braves’ reported $60 million four-year offer to star free-agent pitcher A.J. Burnett, according to people familiar with their thinking.
While the Yankees had been reluctant to give Burnett the full-fledged five-year deal he seeks,. they seem likely to offer a four-year deal for about $64 million. Burnett is being purused by the Jays, Orioles and Nationals as well.
Uh-oh.
By bruce
December 8, 2008 7:33 PM | Link to this
Really fine article and blog on Maddux… wish he would do a victory lap, but that is not his style. Thanks David.
By Braveheart
December 8, 2008 7:34 PM | Link to this
“There’s no reason for a guy with the ability of Yunel Escobar, what he’s done at this point early in his career, to be on the trading block. And there’s only one reason he’s on the trading block. And that’s sad,” Chipper Jones told 790 The Zone.
http://media.790thezone.com/podcasts/ChipperJonesPart_2.mp3
By Bob Dole
December 8, 2008 7:35 PM | Link to this
I like traffic lights.
By brian
December 8, 2008 7:35 PM | Link to this
I would have a hard time trading away many pieces for Ankiel since he will be a free agent soon. When exactly will he be a free agent or is he still in his arbitration years? We all know who his agent is. That being said he would be a huge upgrade over our OF and would be a nice piece to have for many years.
Unless the Braves are moving Escobar for Ankiel (I know this is asking Santa but if Escobar is moving Wainwright better be coming back to Atlanta as well) I do not see how we could move Escobar for a pitcher and then move KJ for Ankiel if the Braves do not want to start over with a new middle infield.
By Caleb
December 8, 2008 7:35 PM | Link to this
Ankiel has an absolute cannon of an arm. I live here in St. Louis, and some of the throws he made this past year were unbelievable. He nailed several runners at third and home with dead on ropes from the warning track.
By JR
December 8, 2008 7:37 PM | Link to this
No way we should give up KJ or YE for one year with a guy who hasn’t been an everyday player but for less than a season. I would much rather have Hermida or Corey Hart than Ankiel. JJ Hardy would be a great pickup, but I really can’t see that happening. If we can get Ankiel without giving up KJ or YE then do it otherwise keep’em or go for much bigger talent.
By Braveheart
December 8, 2008 7:39 PM | Link to this
Kelly Johnson was the worst defensive regular in the majors at second last season and was the second worst defensive second baseman in the majors the last two seasons combined, behind only Cigar Store Indian Jeff Kent
By Wilson
December 8, 2008 7:40 PM | Link to this
I was really hoping Maddux, Glavine, and Smoltz would retire at the same time so they could go in the HOF together. That would be a great induction ceremony.
By Steve from OH
December 8, 2008 7:40 PM | Link to this
I’d be ok with Ankiel. Dude’s got some pop, and between him, Schafer, and a properly conditioned Francoeur, that would be one heck of an OF defense (provided Ankiel doesn’t start launching any throws into the 10th row again, lol). I’m a bit worried about his OBP, but he’s had only 500-some odd AB as a full-time starter, I’d expect it to rise a little bit into the .340’s or low .350’s, which is perfectly acceptable if he’s hitting 30 homers. Especially since the guys likely batting around him (Chipper, B-Mac and Kelly) are great OBP guys.
I would think JoJo Reyes and James Parr would be more than enough to get it done. I’m not even sure I’d offer that much…but again, I’m not a GM and I’ve really got no idea how these valuations work. We shouldn’t even need to think about giving up any top-10 prospects. Well, we’d better not, at least.
By N8
December 8, 2008 7:41 PM | Link to this
Rosenthal is now reporting (as of 7:29) that the Phillies have entered the Peavy sweepstakes.
Oy.
By Braveheart
December 8, 2008 7:44 PM | Link to this
Raul Ibanez is the second worst defensive leftfielder in the majors the last three seasons combined, only barely better than Manny but even worse than slugs like Dunn and Burrell:
http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=rf&stats=fld&lg=all&qual=y&type=0&season=2008&month=12
By brAves Sucios
December 8, 2008 7:44 PM | Link to this
I like Ankiel, sounds like he could come fairly cheap and I’m still not sold on Johnson or Escobar… but if we move them both we need to do it now so there’s still options out there to take their places. These possibilities certainly make me feel better, b/c a series of small, relatively inexpensive upgrades could make a huge difference without depleting the farm system or breaking the bank while giving our young players more time to develop and slowly get rotated into the big club. Our big splash pickups the past five or six years have tended to be the ones that have been the biggest bombs (Hampton, Tex) while the smaller pieces and prospects we’ve picked up (Norton, Jair) have become important players for the club. Go after an ace, but keep hording potential prospects and experienced workhorses and I think we’ll be a stronger team for years to come.
By bigchiefrg
December 8, 2008 7:44 PM | Link to this
DOB… Have read almost every Braves word you have written for at least the last 5 years (although I never post)…The mad dog article takes the cake in my opinion. Due to your extraordinary work, I feel like I am part of the team sometimes and really know these guys.
Thanks a bunch…Here’s to hoping you dont have to write a similar for smoltzie for at least a couple of years.
By Deon Sanders
December 8, 2008 7:46 PM | Link to this
Where McCarver at?
By Apollo
December 8, 2008 7:48 PM | Link to this
DOB, Why would the Braves trade Escobar for a left handed hitter with only one year left on his contract? It doesn’t seem to make much sense with how everything that Frank Wren has said has been “Righthanded Power bat”. Would it really be worth while to trade Escobar for a guy that would be simply there to fill the void until the minor league talent gets here?
By Reality
December 8, 2008 7:48 PM | Link to this
Oh boy, Braveheart is going on another of his anti-KJ, pro-Prado tangents. The Bill James fielding Bible had Johnson ahead of Prado on defense at second base last I checked. Also the list linked shows only 17 players (out of 30 MLB 2Bs) for some reason.
By I can't take it anymore
December 8, 2008 7:50 PM | Link to this
really nice article, david. what a player maddux was. i wont lose sleep if escobar and his attitude go, put i would be upset to see kelly leave. just like him so much better. his set up in the box and swing are just so awesome.
By ernesto
December 8, 2008 7:50 PM | Link to this
I’m not sold on KJ, he’s just too streaky.
But that being said, trading him for a year of Ankiel is a rip off.
I’d rather take a gamble on KJ’s upside, than to give him up for just a year of Ankiel.
By ernesto
December 8, 2008 7:51 PM | Link to this
And Ankiel for Yunel is a straight up rip off.
By Alan
December 8, 2008 7:52 PM | Link to this
DOB, great stuff about Maddux, easily the best pitcher in my lifetime — and I’ve been around a long time. The quotes from Bobby, Leo, Smoltz, Glavine and especially Sutton are terrific. I agree wholeheartedly with you: Maddux deserves to be the first-ever, first-ballot, unanimous Hall of Famer. As for the winter meetings, I’m hoping the Braves can sign Burnett, but I have a feeling the Yankees may swoop in and snatch him. I read elsewhere today that the Cardinals are going to make an offer, too — perhaps they already have. And speaking of the Cardinals, I also would prefer to trade for Ankiel over Ludwick, but I’d be reluctant to part with Johnson and I’d absolutely refuse to give up Escobar for him. Certainly not one-for-one. The rest of this week figures to be very interesting.
By Question
December 8, 2008 7:54 PM | Link to this
Braveheart, why is he on the trading block? What’s the reason? Why is it sad?
By Bobby's Cox
December 8, 2008 7:56 PM | Link to this
Greg Maddux is the best artist I ever saw paint a baseball game,” the Hall of Fame pitcher Don Sutton told me this morning
Dude, didn’t Sutton use to say the exact same words in his broadcasts?
Wish i was there to see the ceremony.
By RC
December 8, 2008 7:56 PM | Link to this
IF Escobar gets traded for Ankiel, the Braves are certain to demand another prospect to be thrown into the deal. Braveheart, I can’t get the Chipper clip from 790 to play…I’m assuming that quote was an allusion to Yunel’s attitude, but can’t tell reading it in text. Sound that way to you?
By ShawnB
December 8, 2008 7:57 PM | Link to this
nolie…. where have you seen Hermida and Hart mentioned as being on the Braves radar? I certainly havent’ seen any mention of those two from DOB or Bowman.
By FloridaBrave
December 8, 2008 7:58 PM | Link to this
Johnson/Escobar for Ankiel is a ridiculous trade for the Braves. I like Ankiel, but he’s a year away from free agency and Scott Boras is his agent. We cannot give up a young, talented, controllable middle infielder for a rental.
These types of deals have hurt the Braves in the past (JD Drew and Mark Teixeira).
The Braves would have to get a significant second piece to do this trade, IMO.
By Mike
December 8, 2008 7:58 PM | Link to this
Congrats on a great career to my favorite player ever. Maddux was what baseball is all about. Now, can someone please tell me why we can’t do better than Ankiel, Ludwick, and Cory hart. None of these guys are the answer. We need a guy with some pop, a guy who will make pitchers think twice about pitching around Chipper. These guys are not the answer.
By Drew
December 8, 2008 7:58 PM | Link to this
I met Maddux in the Braves locker room during a game against the Expos when I was introduced to him by my former American Legion coach, Phil Niekro. Little did I know that when I was 17, I’d be standing in between over 600 total major league wins and over 6,000 strikeouts.
Coolest thing I’ve ever done.
Thanks Phil!
By Braveheart
December 8, 2008 7:59 PM | Link to this
http://ussmariner.com/2008/07/22/why-keeping-ibanez-might-make-sense/
His defense is, of course, horrible. There’s no denying this - he’s one of the very worst defensive players still being allowed to carry a glove. Every advanced defensive metric shows this to be true. His Fielding Bible +/- is -14 plays (or about -12 runs) so far this year. His UZR is -18. This follows exactly in line with what we’d expect, considering how bad he’s been with the glove the last few years.
Even if you want to take a conservative estimate of his defensive value so far this year, the best you can claim is that he’s been 10 runs below average. It’s almost certainly more than that, but if you want to play devil’s advocate, you could argue for a 10 run defensive penalty and not be totally crazy.
+5 with the bat, -10 with the glove… you do the math. Raul Ibanez is less valuable than the average left fielder, and every good organization in baseball knows it. They aren’t giving up premium prospects for a below average player who, over the course of two months, won’t even add half a win over a replacement level player to a contender’s ledger.
That’s the predicament the M’s find themselves in. Raul Ibanez isn’t very good, and the smart teams in baseball realize that, but the free agent compensation system is so out of touch with reality that the M’s will be highly rewarded for letting him walk this winter. For what Ibanez is, you should expect at most a B- prospect in return, except that you’ll be getting the chance at something much better by just letting him leave via free agency.
By Bobby's Cox
December 8, 2008 8:00 PM | Link to this
Oh boy, Braveheart is going on another of his anti-KJ, pro-Prado tangents
Since when has Braveheart ever been on that side of the equation. He’s usually telling me how dumb I am for being on that side.
He’s just stating the facts, and it’s nice to see. Keep on keepin’ on Braveheart.
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
December 8, 2008 8:02 PM | Link to this
If pitching were medical science, Greg Maddux would be a brain surgeon. He was the quintessential quit assassin on the mound.
Unlike the reaction of so many opposing players who fail in the batters box while throwing bats, kicking water coolers and cursing the pitcher who just got them out, Greg Maddux elicited a different reaction.
He would strike out the player or just allow the batter to get himself out and the guy would invariably slink back to the dugout in utter confusion, sometimes stealing a glance back at the mound with the questionable look of, what the hell just happened.
Maddux understood the game within the game within the game. He could see the contest of baseball in three dimensions, knowing where to locate the perfect pitch, seeing the reaction of the batter in his head before even releasing the ball from his hand. The result was predictable, at least in the mind of Greg Maddux.
Maddux never let on to or acknowledged his own intelligence. The man was smarter than anybody knew and he kept it to himself, only sharing his wisdom with teammates. The professor was utterly self deprecating with no ego, an encyclopedic knowledge of how to defeat hitters and of course, an incredible ability to locate, locate, locate.
Mad Dog was humble, a perfectionist and fiercely competitive.The combination was deadly efficient. it was an honor to have watched him pitch. Greg, enjoy your retirement. Cooperstown beckons with open arms.
By sean
December 8, 2008 8:02 PM | Link to this
Why do we want Ankiel? If I’m trading Kelly, or anyone else of much value, it’s not going to be for a rental. It’s trades like this that put us in the position that we’re in currently.
By Efrim
December 8, 2008 8:03 PM | Link to this
How does Rick Ankiel for Kelly Johnson or Yunel Escobar make any sense at all?
Isn’t Ankiel a free agent after 2009? And a Boras client at that? It doesn’t make any sense to trade Escobar or Johnson for him. I really hope the Braves don’t go down that path.
As far as Hardy goes, wouldn’t they ask for Hanson or Jurrjens back for a guy who has three years left before free agency?
Lastly, if the Braves need to guarantee 5 years for Burnett, I think they should do it.
By NCBravesFan
December 8, 2008 8:03 PM | Link to this
Great post, DOB! What an amazing few months its been on the blog - the collapse of the Braves over the summer, the death of Skip and the retirement of Pete. And now, offseason drama - hoping against hope that the Braves can make some moves to get back in the thick of things heading to spring training.
This post reminds us all about how very good we had it in the 90s, and how very fortunate we were to witness Greg Maddux all those years. But I think for me, beyond the sheer excellence - Greg Maddux reminds me why I love the game of baseball so much.
Thanks again for a great recap - and best wishes to the Mad Dog!
By Jeff
December 8, 2008 8:07 PM | Link to this
Wren should be fired if he trades Esco for any player with only one year left on their contract, Ankiel included.
Furthermore, I agree with Chipper Jones regarding Esco being on the trade block, tis sad.
By Bobby's Cox
December 8, 2008 8:07 PM | Link to this
Esco for Ankiel?
Who’s believing this crap?
Didn’t the Cards just trade for Green? What the hell do they need Esco for?
There’s no way that goes down. Ever.
In other views, Hart is garbage. If you think Frenchy kills rallys, wait till surfer dude Hart comes to the plate.
No thanks to Hart. I can live with Ankiel, but not for Esco.
Nelson Cruz is sounding better & better. Where’s he at on the list?
By Bubdylan
December 8, 2008 8:08 PM | Link to this
Drew, that’s awesome.
By Efrim
December 8, 2008 8:08 PM | Link to this
Bowman:
Because Ankiel will be eligible for free agency following the 2009 season, the Braves likely wouldn’t have to provide as much as they would to get Hart, who will be arbitration-eligible for the next three seasons.
But with Ankiel being a Scott Boras client who might only be around for one season, there is reason for the Braves to be reluctant about what they might offer the Cardinals.
Again, one year of Rick Ankiel isn’t equal to 4 years of Yunel Escobar or 3 years of Kelly Johnson. It just isn’t. Especially for a Braves org. that has little to no middle infield prospects in the minors.
By Bobby's Cox
December 8, 2008 8:09 PM | Link to this
Man,
I really agree with Chipper on most issues.
It is sad that Esco is on the block. Why is that? There’s no reason he should be. Keep talkin’ chip.
Prado is a great hitter.
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
December 8, 2008 8:11 PM | Link to this
Ok, I love Chip, but he called Escobar the best SS in the national league…
It doesn’t sound like he was bashing the Braves at all, but rather Escobar’s inability to control his emotions…
By Efrim
December 8, 2008 8:12 PM | Link to this
Rotoworlds take on a potential Hardy to Braves move:
The AJC’s David O’Brien is hearing J.J. Hardy being mentioned in connection with the Braves.
Hardy is more expensive than Yunel Escobar, and it’d likely cost more to acquire him than the Braves would get back if they moved Escobar in another deal. Maybe it’d somehow work out if the Braves were able to trade Escobar for Delmon Young, but that’s a long shot, and they’d still have to come up with a way to pry Hardy away. The Brewers would like request either Jair Jurrjens or Tommy Hanson.
By Bobby's Cox
December 8, 2008 8:15 PM | Link to this
I’m not sold on KJ, he’s just too streaky.
But that being said, trading him for a year of Ankiel is a rip off.
Exactly my thoughts Ernesto.
By brian
December 8, 2008 8:16 PM | Link to this
if we could get Ankiel for Brandon Jones plus Parr or JoJo then go for it. I would not trade away anything of significance for a 1 year rent a boras player
By Eric B
December 8, 2008 8:20 PM | Link to this
KJ or escobar for one year of Ankiel before Boras asks for the moon…no thanks. I’d rather go with B.Jones/Diaz in LF, Schafer in CF and Frenchy in RF. That would be a horrible trade, havent we learned our lesson trading for one year contracts when we’re more than 1 year away?
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
December 8, 2008 8:23 PM | Link to this
I can’t go to bed until I see at least one post from the Blog Master…
By Chuck James is solid until the 6th!! (Formerly Steve-O)
December 8, 2008 8:24 PM | Link to this
McFann I cant post links either… Thats not cool………………
Anyway, everyone should go to AJ Burnett’s MLB.com profile. And click on his (AJ Dominates Yankees game, last clip I believe..) Watch his utter dominance of MULTIPLE perennial All-Stars looking like T-Ball players. AJ looks like he faced nothing but the big playoff teams all late in the year and he shut em all down, stepping it up big time after the All-Star game going 8-2 with a 2.86 or so…And he DOMINATES the Yanks and Red Sox, literally owns them! AJ flat out out-dominates all the AL playoff teams over the last few years…
If we sign him and make it to the playoffs with Smoltz if healthy and Burnett healthy with Jurrjens we are in BIG time business to crush the 5 game serious and we have the depth in a 7 game serious especially with Glavine being able to come back. We all know he’s good for a 2009 season with like 14-8 with a 4.20 - 4.50 ERA and 175-200 IP if he’s healthy. I know were not relying on him but I have a strong feeling last year was a fluke after 17 pain free years and he’ll be back strong..Glav’s 42, Moyer is 46+ and look at his last season and Glav has 33% better skills at this point in his career.
Here is some interesting A.J.stats/info too, check these out everybody…………………………
I think A.J turned the corner with injuries..He’s started atleast 20+ games the last 7 years, averaging 25 starts a year minus his plagued season that he lost a year for the ever so common TJ Surgery…I think he’s ready to be a force in the NL East if you look what he did with the Marlins and what he did with the B-Jays, mostly against other #1 top noth starters, he dominated.
DOB Is AJ a ground ball or fly ball pitcher because I see his ERA is MUCH lower on grass then Blue Jays turf…Almost .75 run differntial between grass and turf…Great sign, and I think Chipper is right he can put up BIGTIME Cy Young numbers back in the NL East, undoubtedly…I say sign him and do whatever it taked because Perez, Garland, Wolf is TRASH upgrades, we got Vazquez which will put up big numbers under Bobby and laid back ATL and he doesn’t have a negative coach bashing him..
Anyway, again I think AJ has turned the corner on injuries….Still young and I think he will be a work horse for us like last year and those 9 K’s per 9 IP over his career is what you need in those playoff series…If we got a healthy Smoltz and AJ with Jurjjens for a game, with that fierce bullpen, especially if we retain Ohman. ATL would dominate these series. I also think Smoltz will come back strong this year, not because I’m biased, but even DOB will admit he is a freak of nature and probably the most resilient player in sports when coming back from injuries.
By James
December 8, 2008 8:25 PM | Link to this
Sign Maddux to a 1 day, $1.00 contract and let him throw one last pitch in a Braves Uniform. Unite Glavine, Smoltz, and Maddux one last time as Braves. That would be a ball game I would pay to see. It would be through teary eyes while remembering all of their younger days.
By Braveheart
December 8, 2008 8:25 PM | Link to this
Oh boy, Braveheart is going on another of his anti-KJ, pro-Prado tangents. The Bill James fielding Bible had Johnson ahead of Prado on defense at second base last I checked. Also the list linked shows only 17 players (out of 30 MLB 2Bs) for some reason.
Nah, ye shy anonymous lil’ wuss. Sorry, dude but KJ is not a good defender. Our eyeballs tell us that. The stats tell us that. Dude is brutal. Sorry. I know all of you latte sipping, khaki wearing KJ lovers just hate it when we kick dirt all over your tassled loafers by showing what a bad defender KJ is but, oh well, facts are the facts and the stats are the stats and they tell us that our lying eyes aren’t deceiving us when we watch that butcher at second.
And, no, I’ve never been pro-Prado. The only way Martin could ever start in the majors is for a last place team that doesn’t give two sh!ts how many games out of first they finish.
Go invent another bogus reason why the stats tell us KJ is as bad of a defender as our eyeballs say he is.
As for why only 17? Do you follow baseball? 17 qualifiers. Your KJ finished dead last. DEAD LAST. But since you were dumb enough to ask, below is the full list with qualifiers and without. Are you sure you want to see it? Your lil KJ ranks 196 out of 197 the last two years at second base. You outsmarted yourself there shy anonymous one.
http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=2b&stats=fld&lg=all&qual=n&type=0&season=2008&month=11
Oh and here he is third worst over the last two seasons for all second baseman with over 1000 innings:
http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=2b&stats=fld&lg=all&qual=1000&type=0&season=2008&month=11
By Andy K.
December 8, 2008 8:26 PM | Link to this
I hope Wren makes a move for Hardy….would be a great addition, and boost to the line-up
By Crazy Z
December 8, 2008 8:27 PM | Link to this
Trading Yunel Escobar for either Ankiel or Hart is awful. Unless it is Yunel for Corey Hart AND JJ Hardy. Then maybe it is ok.
By FloridaBrave
December 8, 2008 8:27 PM | Link to this
Absolutely, Efrim, Hardy would cost an arm in a leg and he’d definitely cost more than the return on Escobar. It almost leads me to think that the Braves are considering acquiring Hardy and moving him to the OF. Ludicrous? Maybe. No more so then trading Escobar for Ankiel and then surrendering the farm to fill that hole at SS.
Escobar/Johnson for Ankiel has to require another TOP prospect on St. Louis’ end.
If something goes down with Escobar, I can’t help but think Furcal will be their guy. Could he be holding out for the Braves? It was awfully suspicious of him flat
By ShawnB
December 8, 2008 8:30 PM | Link to this
OK, Nolie, I saw the Bowman story now. I agree that those guys aren’t the answer for LF. Wouldn’t mind Ankiel, but not for KJ or Escobar. Only way I think Escobar should be moved is for an All Star calibar player, because that’s what he will be in the next year or two.
By Spider29
December 8, 2008 8:31 PM | Link to this
DOB, thanks for the article and blog on the great Maddux. Who didn’t love watching him pitch? Even after he left the Braves, I watched many of his games via MLB Extra Innings. It was always a joy to watch a master. There will never be another three-some like Maddux, Smoltz and Glavine in our lifetime. Although I hate to see Mad Dog retire, I am glad he was able to do it on his terms. Good luck in retirement, Greg, and thanks for all the great pitching performances you gave the Braves and the fans.
By Tomas
December 8, 2008 8:34 PM | Link to this
Ankiel over Ludwick, no way. Ludwick is a much better hitter, plus is right handed. If the Braves trade Jo-jo Reyes, and Brandon Jones for Rick Ankiel I would say yes. But I wouldn’t trade Yunel Escobar, and Kelly Johnson for Rick Ankiel. No way.
If the Braves trade Escobar it needs to be for a starting pitcher. And regarding JJ Hardy, it would take a lot to get him. Furcal would be a better option.
By Braveheart
December 8, 2008 8:38 PM | Link to this
Escobar or KJ for one year of Ankiel would be about as braindead as it gets.
By David O'Brien
December 8, 2008 8:39 PM | Link to this
Bobby’s Cox, I tend to side with you on Ankiel for Escobar — I don’t think Braves would do that straight up. Especially not after hearing Bobby Cox (the real one) talk again about Escobar just while ago.
He raved about him again, said he wants him on his team, etc.
I think Braves would be more likely to trade Kelly or someone else (don’t know who) for Ankiel.
And while I don’t doubt the interest in Hermida, I don’t think it’s big interest. I mean, seriously, how is he a significant upgrade for the Braves? He’s not.
I don’t see that happening.
Corey Hart of the Brewers has been mentioned as possible trade bait by Milwaukee people, if they decide they need to shed payroll. But that also seems less-than-likely to me, and Braves would probably have to give up plenty to get him.
Wren just reiterated that the Braves, like most teams now, don’t want to give up prospects. If they could sign an affordable free agent instead of trading prospects, they would prefer to do that. Which is why Ibanez is attractive to them.
By Bravesfan09
December 8, 2008 8:39 PM | Link to this
I wonder if the Braves will retire Maddux’s number ?
By BCS Slave
December 8, 2008 8:41 PM | Link to this
Greg Maddux made me a baseball fan. His command, his demeanor, his competitiveness made me want to watch the game. Glavine and Smoltz each pitched differently, and they made me appreciate the diversity of the pitching discipline. I just wish The three of them could have gotten together again in Atlanta.
Greg, we have missed you in Atlanta and will miss your presence in the game! Come back and manage the Braves when Bobby retires!
By Chuck James is solid until the 6th!! (Formerly Steve-O)
December 8, 2008 8:44 PM | Link to this
Also, aquick quip on HARDY…i LOVE that he’s 26 and puttin these numbers up, I mean 45 2B’s and 20 HR, very solid BUT a .300 OBP and a tonnnn of K’s. I don’t think Hardy is a #4 hitter with his high K-rate and .300 OBP…He’s solid NO DOUBT as a #6 or so but not for in between Chip and Mc…You can’t have Hardy and Francoeur batting 4th and 6th respectively…Just TOOOO many K’s and low OBP’s…Hardy’s numbers are “sexy” as one dude on here refers to K’s…But I dont like the high K-Rates of him and Frenchy..I think JF will step it up this year being more athletic and having much more agility after droppin those roid-esque muscles…
By Chad
December 8, 2008 8:44 PM | Link to this
David O’Brien,
Thank you for your dedication to this blog. I’ve checked other national newspaper blogs and this is the best of the bunch. Just wanted to say thanks for keeping us informed year around. I hope you continue here for years to come.
By MizzouBravesFan
December 8, 2008 8:44 PM | Link to this
Burnett seems imminent to me and it wouldn’t shock me if we traded for Greinke either.
Bobby wants pitching, that is the focus.
His PC all but confirmed that.
By TomL
December 8, 2008 8:45 PM | Link to this
KJ for one year of Ankiel? No thanks
By Erik
December 8, 2008 8:45 PM | Link to this
DOB the price for Ankiel wouldn’t be KJ would it?
By David O'Brien
December 8, 2008 8:47 PM | Link to this
Both Cox and Wren basically dismissed any notion of Kelly Johnson in left field, by the way. Just in case anyone was wondering. Cox said again he thinks Kelly is too good at 2B to move. Also said both Prado and KJ have been targeted by several teams seeking them in trades….
Joe M, I wouldn’t fret too much over the Yankees being prepared to offer four years and $64 mill. Because I believe if it comes right down to that, if the Braves have to go five years guaranteed to get Burnett, I think they’ll do it. They don’t want to, but I think they almost see it as, they have to.
Wren reiterated tonight, when I asked him just now in his suite where he met with Bowman and me, that there have been no new discussions with Padres, nothing since Braves pulled out of talks four weeks ago.
Bobby Cox when I asked him about A.J. and possibly paying more or longer to get him: “You’ve got to do what you’ve got to do. He’s got a fabulous arm. He’s a guy who can go out there and, even when he doesn’t have his best stuff, can throw a no-hitter.”
While Bobby might be prone to hyperbole from time to time, I can attest to this being fact. That’s because I covered Burnett’s nine-walk no-hitter for Florida way back at the old stadium at San Diego.
By LKS
December 8, 2008 8:49 PM | Link to this
So…if Bobby doesn’t have the issue with Esco than who does???
By David O'Brien
December 8, 2008 8:51 PM | Link to this
Oh, and a few more pitching notes before I write a story for tomorrow’s paper on today’s non-moves and slow day at the meetings overall (things aren’t popping here yet, not much buzz, whether it’s economy or teams waiting for big dominoes to fall or whatever).
Anyway: Smoltz and Braves both are thinking starting rotation over bullpen for Smoltz, if he continues his progress.
Moylan is doing well and should be ready to pitch for the Braves either when spring training ends or shortly thereafter.
Soriano’s status, they won’t know much about until at least January, as far as whether he’ll be ready. I said earlier he’d be ready for spring; that’s not accurate, necessarily. He might be, but not a given.
Gonzalez WILL go to spring training as the closer. It’s his job. I asked Cox tonight, just to be clear.
By FloridaBrave
December 8, 2008 8:51 PM | Link to this
In all fairness, Hermida’s only 25 years old. He’s got the potential to be a middle of the order bat down the road. Albeit he’s not a middle of the order hitter YET, I still feel he’d be an upgrade now and would be with the Braves for quite some time.
I’d certainly take a team with Johnson and Hermida over a team with Ankiel and Prado, both now and especially in the future.
By skull
December 8, 2008 8:54 PM | Link to this
By Deon Sanders 7:46 post
Been away from BB too long?
Too many knocks in the head from the NFL?
Too many lame comments on the FB shows lately?
Who knows for sure what it was but you’ve forgotten how spell your own name!
By David O'Brien
December 8, 2008 8:54 PM | Link to this
Oh, and guess who was here today, of all people: Peavy.
He’s in town to watch the rodeo, apparently, and came over to see Maddux’s press conference. Nobody in the crowd even knew he was there, standing behind the curtain, until someone noticed him in a picture that was snapped of Maddux.
No one talked to him, that I know of. Again, don’t know that anyone even knew he was here, anyone in the media. Wren didn’t know he was here.
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
December 8, 2008 8:56 PM | Link to this
From Stark:
“But all signs now point toward Jake Peavy becoming a Cub, simply because the Padres — after holding out for weeks for the sweetest deal possible — now appear to have no other option.”
Really? And Towers wants to throw FW under the bus…with the writers in San Diego saying he is held in such high regard in the industry for his integrity…yadda, yadda, yadda…he screwed this up and EVERYONE knows it!!
By McFann O –[zzz]
December 8, 2008 8:58 PM | Link to this
Great Blog, Chief! Love the Maddux stories!!
Steve-O I cant post links either… Thats not cool……
No, it isn’t. I don’t know what the deal is…I used to be able to put losta links in one post—came in very handy during the season when I would compare BMac’s stats from one year to those in ‘08 or something.…It’s really gonna stink if I can’t get this resolved by Spring Training.
Braves, don’t trade Johnson…especially for Ankiel. But I read that piece of DOB’s to mean that it would take Escobar or Johnson to get Ludwick. But I could be wrong, as I have been many many many times.
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
December 8, 2008 9:00 PM | Link to this
Peavy was probably there to talk to Hendry and tell him how much integrity Towers has…
By wiki
December 8, 2008 9:01 PM | Link to this
Hard to believe Maddux never put a 24 or 25 win season together. He might’ve in ‘94 as dominant as he was that season if not for the strike.
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
December 8, 2008 9:01 PM | Link to this
Maddux should tell Peavy to go pair up with Smoltz, play for the best manager in baseball, and bring another trophy to the ATL!!
By JoshfromDEC
December 8, 2008 9:02 PM | Link to this
First time blogger, long time reader… On Maddux… Thanks for the blog DOB great quotes from Mad Dog. I am so thankful to have been a teenager during the 90’s and being able to witness first hand what will always be the greatest sustained rotation in history. Three hall of famers all in their prime, giving it their all while never being arrogant or boastful. They always spread credit to the others. They truly enjoyed each other and shared an unmatched passion for the total GAME of baseball. Many people on this blog and around the city criticize the Braves for their lack of overall postseason success and make comparisons to Arizona Toronto and Florida with their 2 championships to the Braves’ one in the same period. But I ask you would you (if you are truly the fan you claim to be of them game) trade witnessing “the big three” for over a decade in your own backyard, for one or two more titles…? I believe those who truly appreciate the intricacies of the game see just how special that was. Anyway enough rambling, GO BRAVES!
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
December 8, 2008 9:02 PM | Link to this
DOB, do you know if AJ’s agent has arrived yet? I hope FW meets with him as soon as he gets in…not sure why, but I just want to hear that they are talking! (:
By David O'Brien
December 8, 2008 9:03 PM | Link to this
Talked to a St. Louis writer who was in the media update with Cards GM. Said they aren’t looking to trade an outfielder for a position player, but rather for a pitcher.
And they don’t seem to think they’ll get a starting pitcher for whichever outfielder they trade. So maybe a reliever? I’m not quite clear on that, but sounds like that’s what they’re indicating.
Anyway, again it seems to dispel any idea of Escobar or even KJ for Ankiel.
By nolie
December 8, 2008 9:05 PM | Link to this
Kelly Johnson for one year of Rick Ankiel seems a rip-off. Ankiel is a free agent after 2009 and his agent is Scott Boras. Joe
I agree completely, plus he didn’t hit lefties worth a damn last season. Don’t we already have enough of those type hitters? I say an emphatic NO !.
By nolie
December 8, 2008 9:11 PM | Link to this
Raul Ibanez is the second worst defensive leftfielder in the majors the last three seasons combined, only barely better than Manny but even worse than slugs like Dunn and Burrell: Braveheart
I can’t tell you hoe little I think of defensive stats and their relativity and reliability. Not quite worthless, but way less reliable than either hitting or pitching ones. Very subjective
By Chuck James is solid until the 6th!! (Formerly Steve-O)
December 8, 2008 9:12 PM | Link to this
McFann
I saw someone else post a link before..I think we may just have to adjust some internet explorer things…But read my above post on AJ …Good stuff, but again DOB what kind of park is the Blue Jays?? Average? Because again Burnett gives up almost a run less AWAY then at his turf home and has great numbers on grass… Again U KNOW WHO was right about AJ…
By oletimer
December 8, 2008 9:12 PM | Link to this
DOB, I jus readed the post about Maddox and I can say it was great.
Maddox is gonna be missed big time. Never seen a pitcher with his accuracy, never.
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
December 8, 2008 9:13 PM | Link to this
My worst nightmare might be in the offing. Remember what happened with Johan Santana last year? The Mets stole him.
Guess who just entered the fray for Jake Peavy?
The Philadelphia Phillies. I think I’m gonna be sick
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
December 8, 2008 9:15 PM | Link to this
Cubs and Phillies in the mix for Peavy
By Efrim
December 8, 2008 9:15 PM | Link to this
The problem is that the Braves won’t trade any top prospects, so obviously, it’s pretty hard to make a trade for a significant bat. 3 years of Johnson for 1 year of Ankiel doesn’t make sense, and I don’t think the Braves would do that. Escobar for Ankiel wouldn’t happen because they just acquired Khalil Greene and more importantly, 4 years of Escobar doesn’t equal 1 year of Ankiel.
By steveP
December 8, 2008 9:17 PM | Link to this
DOB…nothing has been mentioned about Barbaro Canizares from AAA. He was in the AAA all-star came last year? Any chance he gets a chance to compete for 1st base position. Seems like he put up good numbers.
Where do you think Brandon Jones and Gregor Blanco fit into the Braves plans? Platoon? Trade bait?
By McFann O –[zzz]
December 8, 2008 9:19 PM | Link to this
Steve-O—
Just thought of something I meant to put in my last post…
When you try doing links, does you post show up on the Blog with the link all messed up, or does your post not show up at all? ‘Cause when I’ve tried to do a link lately, I experienced the latter.
DOB Anyway, again it seems to dispel any idea of Escobar or even KJ for Ankiel.
Good!
By winterville
December 8, 2008 9:19 PM | Link to this
Coach The Phillies don’t want Peavy, they would be a third team in a deal with the Cubs. It says they like DeRosa from the cubs or maybe Marquis.
By Steve from OH
December 8, 2008 9:19 PM | Link to this
Kelly Johnson for Rick Ankiel is more than an rip-off…it’s an idea on par with giving Barry Zito 126 million or allowing Dane Cook to be televised. There is no way in heck FW would do that. Of course, DOB just debunked that, so I guess I’ll calm down.
They want pitchers, preferably relievers? That seems like it would be more of a match with us, anyway. I can see us matching up with St. Louis for Ankiel for sure.
DOB, do you think there’s any chance we aquire Ludwick w/o giving up Esco or Kelly? Because I’d rather have him than Ankiel, I think…
By Joe M.
December 8, 2008 9:22 PM | Link to this
Seriously: Escobar or KJ for one year of Boras-client Ankiel is just awful. I really hope the Braves and Wren wouldn’t REALLY do that even if the Cardinals begged them and that it’s just a no-smoke-whatsoever rumor. Just the thought that they could actually consider that a move to benefit the Braves in 2009 and beyond inspires no confidence, to be frank.
It’d be even (much!) worse than trading five (or whatever) years of Joey Devine for a half-season of .730 OPS Mark Kotsay and a PTBNL from Boston.
Got my fingers crossed on Burnett. I hope he signs soon. Don’t want another drawn-out Peavy-like thing with one day him (Burnett now) being close to signing with the Braves and the next hour him paling around with Brian Cashman, etc.
Any chance the Braves could sign Mike Gonzalez beyond 2009, like with Soriano last year? That’d be a move I fully support.
By Mike
December 8, 2008 9:22 PM | Link to this
DOB
I know that the Peavy route for the Braves is quite bleak now and that they have at least shifted their attention. But if you were to assume that we dont get AJ (which i think we will get him), is there any truth to what Stark wrote in his column about the Braves not being a team Peavy will go to? Was he just speculating or has Peavy ruled out the Braves? If he has…what a douchebag! Just for that alone i hope that we go to the playoffs and whatever team his ends up on goes in the toilet. But I ain’t mad at him.
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
December 8, 2008 9:23 PM | Link to this
Has anyone actually read the blurb about the Phillies? It says they may be the 3rd team needed to get Peavy to Chicago:
“The World Series champion Phillies are active on at least two fronts. They have shown interest in Twins’ outfielder Delmon Young and also have emerged as a possible third team in the ongoing discussions between the Cubs and Padres regarding right-hander Jake Peavy.
The Padres like some of the Phillies’ young minor-league pitchers, major-league sources say, but the talks are only in the preliminary stages.
The Cubs continue to seek a landing spot for right-hander Jason Marquis, whose $9.875 million salary would need to be cleared to create payroll flexibility for the addition of a left-handed hitter and/or Peavy.
The Cubs tried to interest the Phillies in Marquis, but received only lukewarm interest.
No Peavy deal will be completed until the Cubs’ new owner is decided, sources say. The new owner would need to approve the addition of Peavy, who is owed $63 million.”
By Heath
December 8, 2008 9:23 PM | Link to this
DOB:
Could we use Soriano as the main trade chip for ludwick/ankiel? We could still have moylan, gonzalez and potentially ohman in the ‘pen…that is acceptable to me.
By nolie
December 8, 2008 9:26 PM | Link to this
…. where have you seen Hermida and Hart mentioned as being on the Braves radar? I certainly havent’ seen any mention of those two from DOB or Bowman. Shawn B
It was toward the end of the previous blog
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
December 8, 2008 9:27 PM | Link to this
Cardinals are supposedly now not in on AJ…gotta love this time of year! But, I do hope the Braves can get the AJ thing done before CC spurns them and they open their unending vault!!
By McFann O –[zzz]
December 8, 2008 9:28 PM | Link to this
Steve-O—
(Of course, as soon as my page re-loaded from my last post, your 9:12 popped up. If I woulda waited a couple minutes, I coulda done it all in one post…so, sorry.)
Good post on AJB. I’ll check out that clip, too. I think he’ll be a pretty good pickup…but it does seem like the Braves always go for the guys with a history of injuries. But hey, he’s a pitcher…what cann ya do? If they haven’t been injured already, they will be—just look at Glavine!
I hafta say, when I heard the Braves were pursuing AJB, I was kinda excited. I don’t know—seemed as close to a “big name pitcher” as anybody. Don’t know a whole lot about him, since he’s an AL dude, but he seems pretty good—if he cann make 25 or more starts.
Hope this post makes sense…keep in mind, I’m still a “rookie”.
By Jeff
December 8, 2008 9:30 PM | Link to this
Just as I thought, Cox is still raving about Esco.
So much for that CBS Sportline fella’s story that Cox wants Esco replaced. The same sports writer said Esco was poor defensively last season citing only the number of errors he made as proof. I’m sure anyone who knows baseball well understands how ignorant his comments are.
PS: Again, I agree with Chipper Jones, there’s no reason Esco should be on the trade block…
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
December 8, 2008 9:32 PM | Link to this
Gotta love Bobby:
“”Anybody got a motor scooter to get back?” Braves manager Bobby Cox quipped in the meeting area before heading back to the lobby. “It’s a long walk.”
From this article at CNNSI…
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
December 8, 2008 9:34 PM | Link to this
CC spurns the Yanks…
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
December 8, 2008 9:34 PM | Link to this
meant to say before CC spurns the Yanks…
By Meanie
December 8, 2008 9:35 PM | Link to this
Braveheart
wow,what’s with you? You’ve been getting p1ssy a lot lately. Hanging with coach,Random and Nate too much?
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
December 8, 2008 9:36 PM | Link to this
Yankees going full throttle after Burnett…
By Bubdylan
December 8, 2008 9:36 PM | Link to this
I just had a thought (tried to stop it, but too late): be neat if Jo Jo Reyes had an amazing spring training and some sucker team took the knee-jerk trade-high bait and gave us our LF bat for him.
By SteveInRaleigh
December 8, 2008 9:38 PM | Link to this
lukewarm interest in Marquis? Something tells me that was a generous description. Sort-of like having luke-warm interest in contracting an STD.
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
December 8, 2008 9:39 PM | Link to this
One of my posts was lost making my ramblings about CC even more confusing…maybe more of my posts should get lost. Good night all.
By Bubdylan
December 8, 2008 9:40 PM | Link to this
JasoninFL, Is this a game? Guess the rest of your sentence? :)
By Steve from OH
December 8, 2008 9:40 PM | Link to this
Coach, I don’t think the Phils have enough room on their payroll to support Peavy…I’ve got them at roughly 110-120MM committed w/o Burrell and Moyer in the fold, and their payroll was at 98MM last season. Can’t see them going to a possible 30MM increase in salary. Anyway, who knows if Peavy would approve a trade to them anyway? He probably would, but ya never know…
Besides, a deal would gut their system…I would think it would take Lou Marson, Carlos Carrasco and JA Happ to get a deal done at least. Not that I’m high on Happ, but that’s a pretty hefty pacakge from their perspective.
But the Phils getting Peavy would royally suck. No arguments there.
By AdirondackDave
December 8, 2008 9:44 PM | Link to this
Given a choice between Ludwick and Ankiel, for me it’s this simple: multiple years of Ludwick are worth more than one year of Ankiel even though the latter is a much better fielder.
By ChopChopHipHop
December 8, 2008 9:47 PM | Link to this
With Ankiel being a Boras client, I say let them keep him. I wouldn’t deal with that jerk for anybody.
By McFann O –[zzz]
December 8, 2008 9:49 PM | Link to this
Steve-O—
That was a good clip of AJB! Flat-out domination…
I remember a game in 2007 (April 25) when Timmy struck out 12 Marlins…Braves were ahead 3-0 heading into the bottom of the ninth, and Timmy loaded the bases. So in came Wickman…Marlins won 4-3 on a walk-off…gulp…passed ball. Ugly…ugly ugly ugly…
By My Entire Team Sucks
December 8, 2008 9:53 PM | Link to this
great to here about smoltz - what a bonus it would be to have a healthy smoltz in the starting rotation
By Bubdylan
December 8, 2008 9:53 PM | Link to this
I believe the Phils/Peavy goings on all have to do with the Phils as the third team in a Cubs deal. No Jake for Philly.
Supporting that sentiment is quite a few new blurbs that just hit the net saying it’s Cubs or nobody (return to Pads) for Jake Peavy.
By Eric from MO
December 8, 2008 9:56 PM | Link to this
Ive seen this posted a few times before and dont understand why the Braves arent comsidering this. Why not make Kelly Johnson our left fielder and let Prado start at 2nd. Kelly’s biggest knock is his defense. Once the Braves moved him back in the lineup to drive in runs, like he should be, he was fine. He could easily hit 20 homers a year and we dont have to trade anything for him.
By Stac
December 8, 2008 9:59 PM | Link to this
Ive read that Towers said they trade Peavy to the Cubs or they keep him. Thats that. I just dont think Peavy wants to be a Brave and thats his decision. Wren will put this team together though and Peavy may be wishing he was a Brave. Oh Well……..
As for Escobar, I would not trade him for anything other then a true Ace either. Hes to valuable for our future to trade for a one or two year player. I would keep him thats for sure.
By Brian22
December 8, 2008 10:02 PM | Link to this
DOB, who’s ring tone went off toward the beginning of the press conference? I know Georgia Tech’s “White and Gold” when I hear it. Anybody Braves related?
By Philliesuk
December 8, 2008 10:09 PM | Link to this
Maddux…class act. His humility is something that is lacking in 99% of athletes today. It’s pretty humorous to compare his stats to the best pitchers today. Three straight seasons with over 260 innings. He STILL put up over 200 innings in the strike-shortened season in 1994. 71 walks in THREE straight seasons. The Braves team will never, ever have a pitcher as good as Greg Maddux.
I have a lot of Maddux games on DVD, and it still amazes me when I throw one of those in. One of the best is a game he threw with the Cubs against Steve Avery in 1990.
It’s pretty ridiculous to think of all of the people who say that we shouldn’t get AJ Burnett. Then who should we get? Some people here just don’t have a clue. I remember last off-season when someone said we should trade for Lincecum. Oh yeah, and someone said a few days ago that we should trade for Roy Halladay. Of course. I mean, why on earth would the Blue Jays want him? And I’m sure the same people would whine and moan if we had to give up more than a couple of rejects to get him.
Here’s the deal. Every single baseball expert says that Burnett is the second best pitcher available on the free agent market. Chipper Jones wants him. The guy is a great pitcher. He will make our pitching staff significantly better. His ERA was a little high last year because he was not only in the AL, but in the AL East.
If we sign Burnett and get an outfielder who can produce runs, we become contenders in the NL East.
Oh yeah, and getting Vazquez was a good move. He also improved our team, regardless of what the pessimists say. I’m sure that almost none of you have ever even seen Tyler Flowers swing a bat anyway.
By Jones
December 8, 2008 10:10 PM | Link to this
Looks like Peavy to the Cubs is a go.
Wren should offer 5 years and 80 million to Burnett. They lose out on him and this offseason is a bust.
By brian
December 8, 2008 10:12 PM | Link to this
if it is a reliever the Cards want the Braves may be out of luck. Everyone is either coming off of injury or had a rough 2nd half. Boyer, Acosta, etc anyone of them plus Brandon Jones…..well if that could be sent for Ankiel then I would bet the trade would have been made by now
By tlj
December 8, 2008 10:15 PM | Link to this
Escobar/Johnson for Ankiel? Not just NO but HELL NO. Two reasons he is a Boras client and will be a free agent after 2009.
Did I mention he was a Boras client?
By Salty Dawg
December 8, 2008 10:26 PM | Link to this
With Ankiel being a Boras client, I say let them keep him. I wouldn’t deal with that jerk for anybody.
Great idea, except that Bora$$ represents many of the top players in the game and will continue to do so. Regardless of what you and I think of him as fans, or what GMs may think of him, Bora$$ gets the best deals for his clients and if I were a pro athlete I would want him for my agent too. You can’t just ignore the best possible players available simply because of who their agent is. That is a recipe for dwelling in the cellar while your division opponents stockpile better players. Ideally you develop young players in the minors and have them under contract while they are cheap. The Braves do a pretty good job of that, but you still have to supplement young, cheap talent with proven veterans. If you don’t already have them, you have to go get them.
By Bo
December 8, 2008 10:30 PM | Link to this
Just say no to Akiel and Mr. Boras.
He!! no to trading Esco.The only way I’d trade Esco would be in Peavy deal and that ain’t gone happen. Even with Burnett the Braves still need another SP. The Braves could get* Jeremy Hermida* cheaper than the others names talked about per MLB.COM.Could happen.
Who every they get in OF please stop the damn Platoon crap.
Love to see Mad Dog take Cox place as Mgr.
By Bubdylan
December 8, 2008 10:33 PM | Link to this
It’s pretty ridiculous to think of all of the people who say that we shouldn’t get AJ Burnett. Then who should we get? Some people here just don’t have a clue.Phillisuk
I don’t think you have to be clueless to be apprehensive about signing any pitcher to 5 years, much less one who’s been hurt a bunch. Who else to get? Beats me. But the argument could be made that a year struggling with Smoltz/JJ/Vazquez/Morton/Reyes-Hanson is better than risking 5 years of a 15 mill bust-arm. Not saying I would make that argument (I’m on the fence), just saying you wouldn’t have to be clueless to make it.
By David O'Brien
December 8, 2008 10:35 PM | Link to this
The crack in the door that we’ve all been waiting for came today from Cox in regards to Tommy Hanson bidding for the starting rotation out of spring training.
When asked about that possibility, Cox said: “We don’t want to rush him. But if he can win a spot in spring training, we’re open-minded bout it. I’ve never seen him throw a ball yet. I need to see him.”
That was the second time Cox had been asked about Hanson during the same interview (there were a few late-arrivers).
When asked earlier about Hanson or other young guys competing for the rotation in spring training, Cox said:
“Well I’m not so sure. Tommy, there’s that thought of maybe pushing things too quick, and I’ll have a much better idea [in the spring]. I’ve never seen Tommy throw a ball, and we will see him this spring. All indications are that he very well could fit in as a starter right now. We’ll see. We don’t want to do the wrong thing. But he’s good. And Jo-Jo Reyes. We held onto our pitching, Morton and Reyes, so far, which is a good thing.”
By Go Vandy
December 8, 2008 10:37 PM | Link to this
DOB, Only the second time here. I’m a female, but a lifelong baseball fan and played softball in college. I have a non-facetious question. I’m not being an agent provacateur and my husband who is a therapist(but only a football and basketball fan) also views it as a legitimate question. Here goes, IF the Braves don’t get Burnett, Sheets, Peavy or a corner outfielder of any substance is it possible that some of your Bloggers might be pushed over the brink and contemplate doing themselves harm?? I’m serious. Some of these individuals seem invested to the point of fanaticism. I’m even willing to guess that some people throwing around 15 million a year for 5 years MIGHT not be making 50,000 a year. Do you ever see the craziness of this or do you just steel yourself? I understand you’re being paid to generate this information, but the people responding and seemingly living for any snippet of info are NOT being paid. They are lurking and spending hours to see if Burnett accepts a deal. Is this not “insane”??
By BravesFanChris24
December 8, 2008 10:37 PM | Link to this
I read on MLB Trade Rumors and it said Cards want a starter instead of middle infielders for Ankiel. So would a Jo Jo Reyes/Parr combo work to get Ankiel?
By Bubdylan
December 8, 2008 10:42 PM | Link to this
Love to see Mad Dog take Cox place as Mgr. Bo
Hell, I’d settle for Snoop Dogg.
By Philliesuk
December 8, 2008 10:43 PM | Link to this
It’s not clueless to think that Burnett is a bad idea; it’s clueless to think that every single pitcher (such as Halladay) is available for trade; in other words, there just aren’t that many #1 or #2 starters available.
By Bo
December 8, 2008 10:43 PM | Link to this
Please sign Burnett ASP
By Tomas
December 8, 2008 10:45 PM | Link to this
How about trading Blaine Boyer, and Todd Redmond for Rick Ankiel? The Cards get bulpen help in two young pitchers with good potential, and we get a CF with power and a great arm. I don’t know if the Cards would want more than that, but Ankiel is in the last year of his contract and is a scott boras client, so they can’t ask for a lot. He can either play LF, or CF next year, which ever is best for the Braves.
I hope Wren listens to Bobby. “You’ve got to do what you’ve got to do. He’s got a fabulous arm. He’s a guy who can go out there and, even when he doesn’t have his best stuff, can throw a no-hitter.” The Yankees obviously will offer more money, so there is only one thing to do guarantee him 5 yrs.
I think that if the Braves don’t sign AJ, they’re screwed. No Peavy, No AJ, No Dempster, obviously no CC or Lowe. They have to make Aj Burnett an offer he can’t refuse, and stop fooling around with options and all that stuff.
By Bubdylan
December 8, 2008 10:50 PM | Link to this
IF the Braves don’t get Burnett, Sheets, Peavy or a corner outfielder of any substance is it possible that some of your Bloggers might be pushed over the brink and contemplate doing themselves harm??
Don’t be silly. It’s just a blog.
but the people responding and seemingly living for any snippet of info are NOT being paid. They are lurking and spending hours to see if Burnett accepts a deal.
Does the razor go up-and-down or side-to-side?
By Tomas
December 8, 2008 10:51 PM | Link to this
DOB, if the Braves don’t sign Aj Burnett, what do you think they will do?
By repo man
December 8, 2008 10:52 PM | Link to this
Go Vandy: I agree its crazy. Some of these guys are on 24 hrs a day and it gets bad at times. Got to love the Braves.
By Steve from OH
December 8, 2008 10:52 PM | Link to this
DOB, did Bobby say anything noteworthy about Schafer?
By Jim
December 8, 2008 10:54 PM | Link to this
Go Vandy is right… the last post by BravesFanChris24 shows the insanity…trade two pitchers for a pitcher turned outfielder with one year to be a free agent?…and asking as if it was a request to Santa?
What does everyone think happened with Tex and the give away of Salty and the bunch?
Where’s Tex now? I would have preferred taking my chances on Salty…
By Bubdylan
December 8, 2008 10:59 PM | Link to this
Holy Crap. Sorry for the boldface. Did something wrong.
By Bo
December 8, 2008 11:04 PM | Link to this
Bubdylan, Man I agree on Snoop Dogg for Cox.
By Mike
December 8, 2008 11:04 PM | Link to this
Jo-Jo Reyes is garbage. I don’t care who likes him. he can’t keep the ball down and he walks too many batters. We cannot trade this guy fast enough.
By David O'Brien
December 8, 2008 11:06 PM | Link to this
Here’s one reason to believe Escobar WON’T be traded this winter:
“I think he’s a special talent, and I certainly want him on our team,” Bobby Cox said. “He’s as good a shortstop as we’ve ever had here. He can do so much. He’s going to hit right at .300, I think, ever year. He’s got the type of mechanics that allows me to say that. He stays inside the ball so well, and he’s an extremely gifted shortstop. A pair of the best hands you’d ever see, and he’s got a great arm. And he’s strong. If he wants to, he could hit in the 20s [home runs].”
By cabravesfan
December 8, 2008 11:08 PM | Link to this
Not sure if anyone mentioned it (apologies if you did- scrolling through rather quickly to catch up on the blog) but I think Don Sutton’s quote:
“Greg Maddux is the best artist I ever saw paint a baseball game”
pretty much sums it up for me…the most beautiful pitcher I have ever seen- I am so glad I got to watch true greatness for so long…he will be missed.
By Leo Rimando
December 8, 2008 11:08 PM | Link to this
Here’s an idea. How about the Braves offering an Escobar for Franciso Liriano swap? Min needs a SS, and I would love a shot at getting Liriano. He was the most dominant pitcher in the league before going on Tommy John surgery. He was even more dominant that Johan Santana at one stretch of the season. We need a dominant Lefty (seems we will be Righty heavy this year) and his value may have come down enough so that MIN would consider the trade. It would be an opportunity to acquire a young dominiant young pitcher before he his value peaks again. He has incredibly nasty stuff, and exciting enough to take a chance on. Moreover he’s only 25, so could be along for a long time. Lastly, since he’s coming from a lower market team in Min he may be affordable for several years.
Inquiring about Liriano’s availability may be worth while. What do you think?
By safebet
December 8, 2008 11:16 PM | Link to this
Frank deepest regards. if you could land a j.j. hardy and a cory hart for younell,jojo,and maybe blanco or a ascosta. that would be awsome. good luck Frank. I do like ankiel but not for 1 year.
By Dixie Dawg
December 8, 2008 11:30 PM | Link to this
They are going to have to label Escobar as untouchable. I really wish the Braves would not even consider trading him. And whats with the Braves wanting to go after Ibanez? It sounds like the Braves are just avoiding wanting to rebuild when they really, and I do mean really need to rebuild. I don’t really agree in the decision to get Vasquez, since he was subpar last year. Please, Mr. Wren, no more dinosaurs. Please end the Jurassic movement right now!
By philbravo
December 8, 2008 11:32 PM | Link to this
if the braves were to trade johnson, and they happened to sign furcal, who would be more willing or be asked to move to second? im thinkin escobar because of furcals arm.
By jake
December 8, 2008 11:34 PM | Link to this
So if Bobby likes Escobar so much, why do the Braves (Wren?) seem so willing to let him go?
By uga-brave
December 8, 2008 11:37 PM | Link to this
for amy of you that want some of the great backstory regarding smoltz, maddux, or galvine, i suggest leo’s book TALES FROM THE MOUND.
two games from maddux always stick out for me. a 81 pitch complete game in st. louis during the regular season on a sunday night and of course game one in the 1995 series.
By Salty Dawg
December 8, 2008 11:38 PM | Link to this
IF the Braves don’t get Burnett, Sheets, Peavy or a corner outfielder of any substance is it possible that some of your Bloggers might be pushed over the brink and contemplate doing themselves harm?? I’m serious. Some of these individuals seem invested to the point of fanaticism. I know you said you aren’t being facetious, but seriously, you’re kidding right? First of all, I would venture a guess that most of the posters here are “fanatical” to some degree. That is where the word “fan” comes from, and I think the majority here consider themselves to be fans of the Braves and baseball. Nobody here is going to do themselves harm any more than you are when you watch Vandy lose. In the end, it is a game and we all know that (well, some more than others).
I’m even willing to guess that some people throwing around 15 million a year for 5 years MIGHT not be making 50,000 a year. What is your point? Baseball salaries are what they are. What does one thing have to do with the other?
I understand you’re being paid to generate this information, but the people responding and seemingly living for any snippet of info are NOT being paid. They are lurking and spending hours to see if Burnett accepts a deal. Is this not “insane”?? It is called a pastime. Do you watch television, or read, or play Parcheesi? Who are you to judge how others spend their time? You clearly read the blog, so isn’t it a little hypocritical for you to judge the others who read and post here? Who are you to decide that your level of involvement on the blog is more acceptable than anyone else’s? Maybe you need to sit down for a session with your husband to work through the issues that give you this pompous mindset.
By TexasBrave
December 8, 2008 11:39 PM | Link to this
Here’s one reason to believe Escobar WON’T be traded this winter: DOB
Could he just be talking Escobar up for a bidding team or perhaps trying to do some damage control with Yunel because all of the trade talk?
Also did you see Braveheart’s 7:34 of Chipper’s comments about Yunel? What do you make of it?
“There’s no reason for a guy with the ability of Yunel Escobar, what he’s done at this point early in his career, to be on the trading block. And there’s only one reason he’s on the trading block. And that’s sad,” Chipper Jones told 790 The Zone.
I guess I don’t understand what reason other than pitching that Yunel would be on the trading block. Is there something more to it than that?
By Couch Tater
December 8, 2008 11:40 PM | Link to this
DOB - Great article and blog.
By Philliesuk
December 8, 2008 11:40 PM | Link to this
Well, those of you who don’t want Burnett may just get your wish.
ESPN is reporting that the Red Sox are now players in the Burnett sweepstakes. Also, CC Sabathia apparently is showing more interest in the West Coast. That means we will have to out-compete both Boston and New York, which is unlikely.
By rotty
December 8, 2008 11:42 PM | Link to this
The Braves have traded tons of players Bobby loved it is the nature of the biz.
If Wren can land an Ace for Escobar he won’t blink.
That said I don’t see an Ace (apart from Peavy) who can be had with Escobar as the centerpiece.
By Greg in TN
December 8, 2008 11:45 PM | Link to this
Evening folks…
Once again the ball is placed on the tee for the Veteran’s Committee and once again, it’s strike three and the Committee walks back to the dugout. Congratulations to Joe Gordon, whose Hall of Fame ticket was punched today by the pre-1942 committee and who will be inducted posthumously next summer.
So where do we go now? The HOF has a big problem on their hands now IMO with the changes last year to help streamline the process now that this round of changes obviously didn’t help. I like the idea of having the living hall members decide who gets in and who doesn’t, but when the group can’t get consensus to elect even one deserving player four votes in a row? Perhaps the HOF should shave a couple players off the ballot and propose eight to vote from instead of the current system. Now we wait until 2010 for another vote.
By Erik
December 8, 2008 11:46 PM | Link to this
DOB Please answer this question for me.
Unlike everyone else I am not as concerned about the price for Ankiel (I have faith in Wren). Instead I am just confused as to why they are targeting Ankiel. I was under the impression we were looking for a righty or at least a lefty who has had success against righties in the past. Ankiel hit .226 against lefties last year.
Are we willing to trade for a 1 year rental who is left handed?
Don’t get me wrong I would be excited to Ankiel in a braves uniform but I thought we were looking for a righty to balance out our lineup.
Thanks DOB
By David O'Brien
December 8, 2008 11:48 PM | Link to this
Chipper was referring to a few incidents this season that we’ve alluded to many times, the outbursts at a couple of umpires, showing up a pitcher or two, etc. Chipper praised him in that interview, by the way. He was saying it’s sad that those incidents might be the thing that got such a talented player traded, etc. Saying it was sad that it happened, more than anything else, at least that’s how I took it. Seemed pretty clear to me what he meant.
By N8
December 8, 2008 11:50 PM | Link to this
Texas Brave
I’m guessing that’s a backhanded comment about Yunel’s attitude. Can’t imagine that Chipper would be taking an attack on Braves management about them needing to acquire pitching as the “reason” for Yunel being on the block.
By Vic Mackey
December 8, 2008 11:52 PM | Link to this
HEY DOB
You think that Jo-Jo or Morton would be tradable for Ankiel if the Braves sign A.J.?
I think the Braves could maybe even wait till right before Spring Training to get an outfielder. Might give them time to assess Smoltz a little bit more and see how their pitching depth settles in/.
Just a thought — what do you think?
By David O'Brien
December 8, 2008 11:52 PM | Link to this
The fact that Ankiel will be eligible for free agency after the 2009 season is why the Cardinals know they won’t get nearly as much for him as Ludwick. It’s why they don’t expect to get a starting pitcher for him, and why it sounds like they’d probably take a reliever for Ankiel, or a reliever and a minor leaguer, that kind of thing.
By Vandy Blows
December 8, 2008 11:54 PM | Link to this
If we don’t sign 2 starting pitchers and a left-fielder soon, I may have to start a charcoal fire in an air-tight room so the carbon monoxide will put me out of my misery
By Wayne in Utah
December 8, 2008 11:55 PM | Link to this
No way should we ever go after another Boras client in a trade, unless he was practically given to us.
Prado and Parr for Ankiel, and nothing more.
By skull
December 8, 2008 11:57 PM | Link to this
So if Bobby likes Escobar so much, why do the Braves (Wren?) seem so willing to let him go? Jake
Don’t bet on the things BC says.
Bobby loves every player. In an interview at the end of the season Bobby said that he still liked Corky & would be happy to have back again next season. Thank God FW signed Ross!
By DoubleDownon11
December 8, 2008 11:58 PM | Link to this
DOB:
Can I take a guess that you talked with former AJC sports writer Joe Strauss during Mozeliak’s local media session?
If so, he mentioned on a guest spot with 1380AM here in St. Louis this afternoon that an Ankiel-for-Johnson trade would be ‘conceivable’. It would lower the Cardinals payroll (Ankiel is arbitration eligible for the last time) and it’d free up some extra cash for the Cards pursuits of either a free agent pitcher or trade for a reliever.
Just thought I’d pass that along.
DD11
By Johnny
December 8, 2008 11:59 PM | Link to this
Why are we waiting around to see if some other team can swoop in and get AJ? Why don’t we give more attention to Dunn? Yes, poor defense…blah blah…that guy can mash. If you put chipper and esco in front of him that could be some major RBIs. FW please offer AJ the 5th year. Offer Ben sheets 3 years and be amazed at the rotation in 2010. I know very unrealistic wishlist of players, but this is going to Santa, right?
By Salty Dawg
December 9, 2008 12:00 AM | Link to this
MLBTR: MLB.com’s Mark Bowman says the Reds “may have some interest in Jeff Francoeur.” However, the Braves don’t want to move him.
That should bring them out of the woodwork. Hope everyone is still alive and kicking out there.
By winterville
December 9, 2008 12:02 AM | Link to this
I just killed myself because we haven’t signed Burnett yet.
By The Real Joebrave
December 9, 2008 12:03 AM | Link to this
Folks Burnett is now a mist in the wind,With the Stankees deep pockets, FORGET HIM!!!! Wren, Dude You BETTER Come up with more than Vazquez,a he11uva lot more… As for Ankiel,Are You folks CRAZY??He does’nt hit Righthanded!!!!!! Yes give me Hart,and possibly learn to stomach Garland,and Wolf!!! That is about the way it’s gonna go!!! Looks like Baltimore-itis has set in on the Bravos!!!
By Johnny
December 9, 2008 12:07 AM | Link to this
The Reds have interest in Frenchy???
This according to Mark Bowman. Fill me in DOB
By David O'Brien
December 9, 2008 12:09 AM | Link to this
I went back and added to the original blog these closing remarks by Maddux, which I can’t believe I forgot to post originally:
“Again, I just want to say thank you for everything. The game has given me and my family so much, that I just want to say thank you. And the one thing I hope is, I hope that I gave back. I played the game the way I want my teammates to play it. Again, thank you for everything. I’ll miss it. Thanks you.”
By Chop Chop
December 9, 2008 12:11 AM | Link to this
TexasBrave,
Bobby’s superlatives for Escobar strike me as an attempt to drum up interest. Doesn’t make much sense to poormouth a guy you might trade. You talk the fella up. Why else would Bobby say that Kelly Johnson is “too good” at second base to move him to left field? That’s a flat-out lie. Ol’ Braveheart pulled out those poor fielding stats and whacked Kelly over the head with them.
It’s hard for me to believe that both guys will be traded this offseason, but I think it seems very likely that one of them will. Since Escobar is a defensive plus, I’d like to see Kelly moved. You know, even if he’s not likely to get any better because he’s actually, oh, 30 or something.
I think Burnett will end up in pinstripes. Sabathia wants to play out West. The Dodgers could use a big splash to make up for any Manny backlash. This will cause the Yanks to go into panic mode. Since they can afford to give Burnett a fully-guaranteed fifth year, a Sabathia rejection would make the Yanks up the ante. This could also lead to a scenario that I’m starting to think is quite possible:
Peavy to the Yanks.
The Yanks can send Cano, a pitcher (Hughes or Kennedy), and some secret cash over to San Diego.
John Moores: “Just make sure the cash isn’t transferred until my divorce is final.”
Gotta admit that something like this would be funny as hell.
By nolie
December 9, 2008 12:12 AM | Link to this
’m even willing to guess that some people throwing around 15 million a year for 5 years MIGHT not be making 50,000 a year.
What is your point? Baseball salaries are what they are. What does one thing have to do with the other?
That post sounds a lot like Lou Vales approach. He keeps sneaking back under other names and bringing up the same stupid stuff about salaries and fanaticism. I think maybe he’s obsessed. LOL
By TexasBrave
December 9, 2008 12:13 AM | Link to this
Wow how one little excerpt can be taken way out of context. I tried to find the whole interview but failed. So I took it at face value. Still it did not sound like Chipper was too thrilled with Yunel being on the chopping block even if it meant getting an ace.
By Johnny
December 9, 2008 12:17 AM | Link to this
Last thing I’ll write then just read. DOB you do a great job here and I appreciate the read even if we don’t sign AJ or trade for Peavy at this moment in time. Maddux was my favorite player growing up and it was a pleasure to watch him play. Get strong on the pitching front Bravos!
By dkmo10
December 9, 2008 12:20 AM | Link to this
DOB Since I dont really care for Jo Jo and if we are really going to get Ankeil,though I realy dont like him either then why couldnt we trade Morton and Jo Jo and maybe another player for Wainwright and Ankiel. Atleast put someone in the trade to be excited about, cuz Adam is a former brave and could help the rotation as a 3,4 or 5?(depends on who we get) It will give STL two young pitchers. STL will never do this but it would be nice.
By thespook
December 9, 2008 12:20 AM | Link to this
Possibly the Braves are considering trading Escobar because they have inside information and concern about the condition of his shoulder and it hampering an outstanding future.
By The Real Joebrave
December 9, 2008 12:21 AM | Link to this
F.W Hello Reds G.M. Frank, What would it take to acquire Jeff Francouer??? F.W. Edinson Volquez,Joey Votto,and 15 mill. Krivsky,What????WHAT???Are You Freakin Stupid??? Frank Wren, You asked!!! How about, AAron Harang,and A minor league shortstop??? Krivsky, Frank I will be there in a few minutes, man You really need to put that bong down!!!
By Chop Chop
December 9, 2008 12:26 AM | Link to this
Oh, and I mean that Escobar is likely 30 or something. I’m fairly certain that Kelly is legitimately 26 years old.
(I know them Texican birth certificates can be a little fishy, but I’ll trust his.)
By Joel
December 9, 2008 12:28 AM | Link to this
Jake Apparently you just don’t get it. Not once has anybody said that they are so willing to let Escobar go. As far as the Peavy trade goes, you have to give up something to get one of the top 5 pitchers in all of baseball, and Escobar has endless talent who comes dirt cheap. Don’t think for one second that the Braves will move him in anything less than a blockbuster.
By Duke
December 9, 2008 12:30 AM | Link to this
Of course the better version of that song done by four other dudes. Not sure I need to name their names
By Serge
December 9, 2008 12:31 AM | Link to this
Here’s one reason to believe Escobar WON’T be traded this winter:
No disrespect. But that means absolutely nothing coming from Bobby Cox.
By skull
December 9, 2008 12:44 AM | Link to this
During the course of Monday’s events, Wren said that he spoke to two representatives of free agents and to about eight different clubs about potential trades. Mark Bowman
Keep at it FW! Git-er-dun!
By nolie
December 9, 2008 12:48 AM | Link to this
Possibly the Braves are considering trading Escobar because they have inside information and concern about the condition of his shoulder and it hampering an outstanding future. thespook
nah, they just don’t believe that he is ever going to fully get over the trade of Pena. He rallied for a bit after the initial devastation, but slipped back into mourning and moped around the last two months. More of the same is believed to be in the future, so they are being proactive. S’truth!
By The Real Joebrave
December 9, 2008 12:51 AM | Link to this
Somehow I get this sinking feeling that Frankie Wren is a little overmatched… Hey Homeboy Upstairs, get Your @ss to Vegas and show Your Boy how it’s done!!! Don’t just stand there old man DO SOMETHING!!! Incompetent Boobs!!!
By The Real Joebrave
December 9, 2008 12:53 AM | Link to this
Jeff Frenchfry!!!What a JOKE!!If You guys think that TURD is going to be any better You need to stop Drinking, and that includes the Gwinnett Kool-aid!!!
By Johnny B
December 9, 2008 1:02 AM | Link to this
Greetings all!
DOB You are the man as always!
Excellent article on Mad Dog. I got a couple of free tickets back in 02’ and sat right behind home plate where the scouts sit. Although I had been to several games he had started over the years this was the only one I was close enough to “hear” the action as well as see it.
Unfortunately, we lost 2 to 1 that day but being able to sit that close and watch the movement on Madduxs pitches was unbelievable. The intensity he pitched with and the self directed, profanity laced outburst were something to behold…He will truly be missed and I pray when he’s ready the Braves don’t hesitate to offer him a position on the staff.
Any word on where we are with Norton and Olman? Would be nice to have those two in place for next season.
By Greek Brave
December 9, 2008 1:03 AM | Link to this
I would hope the Braves will immediately invite Maddox to Spring Training to work with our Braves. Our young guns (pistols) have missed not having him around.
By kris
December 9, 2008 1:10 AM | Link to this
What is the status of Will Ohman?
By FaninFaytown
December 9, 2008 1:32 AM | Link to this
Seriously, what is the deal with not being able to spell our beloved players names? ANDRUW!! MADDUX!! ahhh
By youse
December 9, 2008 1:41 AM | Link to this
U can use those U’s
By Eric B
December 9, 2008 1:49 AM | Link to this
We need to garauntee the 5th year tomorrow and sign Burnette immediately. We can wait on Smoltz/Glavine to potentially add depth while waiting patiently on the best deal for an OF bat with power.
By Rafael Belliard
December 9, 2008 1:55 AM | Link to this
DOB
Why has Garret Anderson’s name not been mentioned?
Seems like a good fit.
By nolie
December 9, 2008 2:22 AM | Link to this
Why has Garret Anderson’s name not been mentioned?
Seems like a good fit RafaelB
he’s a LH hitter with a poor OBP, so I’m not sure what makes him a good fit. Comes to that I’d rather have Ankiel and platoon him with Diaz.
By jed
December 9, 2008 2:58 AM | Link to this
go vandy
i have friends who are teachers who dont make over $50k. does that exclude them from discussing baseball trades? you know, i spent my freshman year of college at that little hell-hole of a university of yours. it was a yuppie-wannabe wasteland. your glib arrogance is appalling, but emblematic of what i encountered at vanderbilt: soul-less rich kids who knew the price of everything and the value of nothing.
By Coach (skip and pete will be missed)
December 9, 2008 2:59 AM | Link to this
I did some digging and found out what I had already suspected. Yes, the Phillies have the right prospects to pull off a five for one deal for Jake Peavy.
As to whether or not they will, that question has yet to be answered. And NO, the Phillies are not some third wheel in a three team trade scenario involving the Padres.
The Philadelphia Phillies have the means to pull this thing off all by themselves if they so choose. The Phillies know that they need more pitching. No one is expecting Jamie Moyer to repeat his 2008 season even if the Phillies resign him and Chase Utley is already out for much of 2009. Then there is the matter of Pat Burrell. Will he stay in Philly or go elsewhere?
Our Braves are not the only team in the N.L. East with problems.
By jed
December 9, 2008 3:12 AM | Link to this
reading the trade rumors pages, what is kevin towers thinking? he’s going to take this deal with the cubs over the deal the braves offered? i’d rather have escobar than jason marquis. if morton was offered, forget it. even jo-jo reyes is potentially better than marquis. and to consider we’d have given them gorkys hernandez, escobar, blaine boyer, and reyes or morton? compared to what they’re hoping for from the cubs? if towers isnt bluffing, he’s just plain crazy.
By David O'Brien
December 9, 2008 3:19 AM | Link to this
Kris, the market for most free agents other than the top guys has been slow to develop. Very slow. The Braves made an offer to Ohman last month, and I’m sure he’s still waiting to see what other offers he’s going to get before he makes a decision. I think that part of the process is probably just picking up some speed now.
Braves have acquired a couple of relatively unproven lefties (O’Flaherty and Logan, which sounds like the name of a good whiskey) since making the offer to Ohman, and I don’t get a sense that he’s a priority for them, though I think he probably should be.
If the market doesn’t materialize as Ohman had hoped, maybe he comes back to the Braves, assuming their offer to him still stands. But I don’t know. I haven’t talked to him in a couple of weeks. I’ll try to give him a call tomorrow.
By scottbravesfan
December 9, 2008 3:27 AM | Link to this
Dave,
Have you heard anything about when the Braves will retire Maddux’s number? I want to know because I’ll be making the four hour drive to see that game for sure. I guess they could wait until the 2010 season to retire it but if they wait to long it will be time to retire Smoltz and Glavine’s jerseys as well and I doubt they would want to do all three or even two of them in the same season.
By BravesFan79
December 9, 2008 3:39 AM | Link to this
Go Vandy: you probably spend your time watching Desperate House wives, or The Hills…….. so compared to us…whos life is REALLY sad? At least were not easily entertained by a lame plot. about “who dumped RC this week”
I think “the HIlls” meets “the Shield” would make a really good show. Vick would help put the little pink polo shirt btches out of their misery. Take em to Compton and give them a dose of reality!
By Bravo Nam
December 9, 2008 3:43 AM | Link to this
DOB
Great song choice and excellent artist. Jimmy Webb is one of my all-time fave writers…and his singing ain’t half bad either…his work on Ten Easy Pieces was sublime.
By Bravestillidie
December 9, 2008 3:46 AM | Link to this
DOB
I just happened to think about Phil Stockman. Whats the last you heard about him after being hurt last year? Any news on him and also what his contract status is. He had some flashes of potential every time I saw him. Once again…thanks for the always hard work.
BTID
By GermanBravesFan
December 9, 2008 3:53 AM | Link to this
DOB: Great article on Maddux! I started following baseball in 1991 and was lucky enough to follow the Braves and Greg Maddux. The one image that will stick with me is when the camera showed him during games where he didn’t pitch, during the days before he had laser eye surgery: he was sitting there with his glasses and looked like a total nerd. He could have been mistaken for the team trainer or doctor, but not for one of the greatest pitcher of his generation! It’s too bad he could not end his career with the Braves…
By GermanBravesFan
December 9, 2008 3:58 AM | Link to this
Somehow I get the impression that “TheReal Joe Brave” either forgot to take his meds or is completely drunk…
By Anti-Coach
December 9, 2008 4:05 AM | Link to this
Coochie Poo
The Phils aren’t getting Peavy you moron. BTW do you happen to know why you come across like such an a@@whole on most all of your posts? Just wondering. I bet I do.
By BayAreaSteve
December 9, 2008 4:21 AM | Link to this
Did someone say completely drunk?
By Marty from Roc City
December 9, 2008 4:28 AM | Link to this
DOB, That was a fine piece of writing on Greg Maddux, in my opinion the best pitcher to play the game.
I started reading this blog last spring training because I’m from upstate NY and without the Braves on TBS it was next to impossible to properly follow them. From 2002-2006 I was in the Marines and it was impossible to follow my team because of all the deployments I was on.
During this past season i was flipping through channels and came across a ball game Maddux was pitching in. I can’t remember the last time I was so happy. I sat there and watched a game I couldn’t of cared less about only because Maddux was on the mound. I had a feeling it would be his last year and had to see him one last time. In his press conference Maddux thanked everyone at the end but it’s we who should be thanking him.
Thank you Greg Maddux you made many people into baseball fans including me. We’re gonna miss you Greg!
By Ken Stallings
December 9, 2008 4:32 AM | Link to this
Greg Maddux says he “hopes” he gave something back to the game! And it’s a sincere statement, not false modesty. You know, you don’t really miss a guy until you have to miss him!
Greg, you gave back a whole lot! Congratulations and welcome to Cooperstown where you belong for the ages!
By GermanBravesFan
December 9, 2008 5:35 AM | Link to this
Question: why not suggest to the Padres that Hanson could be had in a deal for Peavy IF the Padres pay half of Peavy’s salary?
Then add Burnett to the rotation… Voilà!
2009 rotation: Peavy/Burnett/Smoltz/Jurrjens/Vazquez
2010 rotation: Peavy/Hudson/Burnett/Jurrjens/Vazquez
It’s okay to dream… :-)
By Efrim
December 9, 2008 5:49 AM | Link to this
Crasnick says that the Red Sox are right there with the Braves and Yankees bidding for Burnett. Are the Red Sox and Yankees in on everyone? Chances are that they talk to everyone, but I have a feeling that the Red Sox interest in Burnett is lukewarm and I can’t imagine them going to five years for him. At this point, I’d be suprised to see the Yankees go to five years for Burnett. Braves need to get it done for 5 years and 75 million before Sabathia decides on a West Coast team. With Peavy likely headed to the Cubs, the only other option in the free agent market I’d feel comfortable with starting on opening day would be Ben Sheets.
As far as the Mike Gonzalez for Rick Ankiel rumor, that makes zero sense to me, and I am sure it does to the Braves too. But, everyone here kept talking about trading Yunel and then signing a replacement shortstop. Well, with the closer market being full of options, would it make some sense to trade Mike Gonzalez for that proven run producing bat and then signing a closer like Kerry Wood? I know the Braves don’t like to pay closers big money, but the top closer in the market is going to sign for 3 years and 37 million. That isn’t a “ton of money”. Kerry Wood on a two year deal might be a bargain. And trading Gonzalez for a proven bat may keep us from trading any top prospects. Unconventional, I suppose, just up early this morning……
By GermanBravesFan
December 9, 2008 6:05 AM | Link to this
Efrim - I think the Braves should keep Gonzalez. It sounds like the Cardinals are looking for bullpen help in general, not necessarily a closer. How about Boyer for Ankiel? However, Ankiel will only be a one-year solution since his agent is Scott Boras…
By GermanBravesFan
December 9, 2008 6:08 AM | Link to this
Just adding to my previous comment: would it be worth trading a proven closer like Gonzalez for an outfielder who will be with the Braves for only a year?
By fan since 66
December 9, 2008 6:14 AM | Link to this
If - the biggest little word in the world. FW what are the 10 most important two letter words? If it is to be, it is up to me!
By fan since 66
December 9, 2008 6:14 AM | Link to this
If - the biggest little word in the world. FW what are the 10 most important two letter words? If it is to be, it is up to me!
By Roach
December 9, 2008 6:16 AM | Link to this
What are Ankiels Obp, Ops, and Ops+ for last year compared to Ibanez’s???
By nolie
December 9, 2008 6:19 AM | Link to this
DOB
Did you catch the first episode of Leverage on TNT the other night? It had good word of mouth B4hand ans was actually pretty interesting. Shows some promise. Caper type show.
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
December 9, 2008 6:20 AM | Link to this
Blue Jays would listen on Alex Rios:
“O’Connell says the Jays have significant interest in Pavano. Bastian also reports that J.P. Ricciardi did not deny that he’d listen on Alex Rios.”
I know he plays RF, but would he play LF?
By nolie
December 9, 2008 6:26 AM | Link to this
Well, with the closer market being full of options, would it make some sense to trade Mike Gonzalez for that proven run producing bat and then signing a closer like Kerry Efrim
I’m sorry, but I really fail to see how you can call Ankiel a proven run-producing bat. He might be ok as a platoon with Diaz, but the guy has proven next to nothing so far IMO. Certainly not enough to trade an impact player or closer for one year of his services. Truthfully, I’m somewhat surprised at your post, I respect your views but just don’t see this one at all.
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
December 9, 2008 6:27 AM | Link to this
I am still surprised that the Dodgers and Braves haven’t talked about a trade.
I hope the Braves met with AJ’s agent. The Yanks are now making an offer to Sheets for supposedly 2 yrs/$30 mill. Man, the Yanks and Sox really do get in on just about everyone. Hopefully, Sheets accepts right out of the gate. Even the Yanks can’t afford Sheets, CC, and AJ…can they?
By Philliesuk
December 9, 2008 6:28 AM | Link to this
Ankiel for Gonzo?
NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
December 9, 2008 6:30 AM | Link to this
From Chris De Luca at SunTimes:
“Hendry has not been as willing to discuss the negotiations as Towers — and the Padres GM’s frankness has irked the Cubs —”
But, I thought Towers had about the most integrity in the game according to the San Diego writers. This whole situation has been a joke with Towers, the rest of the front office, the Peavy/Axelrod/Towers love triangle, and Towers constant spouting off of the mouth.
By nolie
December 9, 2008 6:31 AM | Link to this
C’mon, Roach just go to BaseballReference.com and check them out. I’m too lazy at this time of morning. LOL. I know Ankiel didn’t hit lefties very well last season, I’m guessing not as well as Ibanez, but he is a much much better defensive player and cheaper. Would depend on who they wanted back.
By Efrim
December 9, 2008 6:32 AM | Link to this
German Braves Fan
I’m not sure I’d call Gonzalez a proven closer, but you’re right about dealing him straight up for Ankiel, I wouldn’t give that a moments thought. Trading him for 3 years of Ludwick? Possibly, but I’m not sure the Cards would do that.
I know it is far fetched, but if the Braves don’t like any free agent OF options and don’t want ot trade any top prospects, it may be the only way of upgrading at a corner OF spot.
By Efrim
December 9, 2008 6:41 AM | Link to this
nolie
This is what I wrote at the beginning of my post:
As far as the Mike Gonzalez for Rick Ankiel rumor, that makes zero sense to me, and I am sure it does to the Braves too.
I’m not saying deal Ankiel for Gonzalez. But Gonzalez for Ludwick or someone else with a more proven track record? I think it’s worth considering if they thought they could sign one of the other free agent closers.
It’s really just a thought I had considering that the Braves don’t want to trade “top prospects”. I’m not sure how they get this run producing bat without giving a prospect package up. They don’t like any of the free agent OF’s other than Raul Ibanez(who is far too expensive for his age).
By Roach
December 9, 2008 6:41 AM | Link to this
Nolie,
Won’t let me on any of those sites here at work. I am lucky to be on the blog.
By HeywardTheFuture
December 9, 2008 6:58 AM | Link to this
You guys that think we’ll get Peavy and Burnett are hilarious. Right now we’ll be lucky to get Burnett with the Sox and Yanks getting involved. Only way we’re gonna land him now is if we guarantee that 5th year.As for the Ludwick/Ankiel/Mather crap, I’m afraid Wren is going to do something stupid just to get a LF.
By Elmer
December 9, 2008 7:04 AM | Link to this
Keep Escobar, please! Ankiel would be a nice addition.
By GermanBravesFan
December 9, 2008 7:12 AM | Link to this
Efrim - how about Gonzalez for Dye?
By Voice from the past
December 9, 2008 8:08 AM | Link to this
So Chicago appears willing to talk about Mark Derosa now. Isn’t he a right handed hitting versatile OF that is capable of 20+ HR’s as well as backing up 3B in the event of an injury there?
By Smoky Joe Wood
December 9, 2008 8:08 AM | Link to this
I could live with Ankiel because he has upside—I think he’s still learning how to hit. He’s way better than what we’ve had in the OF. I would try to get him for Boyer plus a prospect. If that didn’t do it, I would ask Bobby Cox who he thinks will be better—Morton or Jo-Jo, then offer them the other one. I hate one-year deals in general, but really—what are the odds of Jo-Jo Reyes becoming Tom Glavine? I’d say 1 in 10.
By richbrave
December 9, 2008 8:09 AM | Link to this
Its never over ‘till its over, but I think the PEAVY deal’s in the past. Just as with BURNETT, the offer could be revisited however.
It looks like the fifth year guarantee to BURNETT is necessary and a bump in the premium also. If A.J. gives us another offer opportunity, I think we sign him.
That makes the PEAVY deal superfluous. I thought after we signed VASQUEZ, the PADRES would show up again, but JAKE may have nixed that opportunity. I suppose the truth will eventually come out.
ROSS was an essential deal. We had to get someone solid behind McCANN. Now the outfield needs some power and all of FW’s avowed tasks will have been completed. I still worry about the one and two slots in the line-up however.
Is ANKIEL the power.? I assume his career trajectory is still to the upside. Hey, maybe he’ll arrive here and suddenly begin throwing BB’s again for strikes.
By KneeJerk
December 9, 2008 8:19 AM | Link to this
There is NO BIGGER RF stiff in the majors than Jeremy Hermida.
By JR
December 9, 2008 8:30 AM | Link to this
First of all we are so deep into the AJ sweepstakes we had better make it happen.
Second, if we can get Ankiel for what DOB says a reliever and a prospect then do it. BTW we still need a LF. I am not satisfied with anyone left to do the job like a contending team needs.
Third, even if we get AJ we still need another pitcher. I’m trying to win the darn thing not contend.
Fourth, why in the heck hasn’t Bobby seen Hanson pitch. Get off your old butt and go watch your future in winter ball.
Finally, since Maddux doesn’t have a job can we get him to replace Roger as pitching coach.
By Smoky Joe Wood
December 9, 2008 8:30 AM | Link to this
What is Wren waiting for on signing Smoltz? If Bobby was so sold by his outing the other day, let’s get the contract drawn up. I don’t want to risk hurting his feelings, or leaving the door ajar for the Yankees/RedSox evil empire to stick their monstrous heads and checkbooks in.
By safebet
December 9, 2008 8:34 AM | Link to this
I JUST WANDER HOW MANY OF THESE COMMENTS ARE FROM PLAYERS, COX AND WREN
By Joe M.
December 9, 2008 8:36 AM | Link to this
Crasnick says that the Red Sox are right there with the Braves and Yankees bidding for Burnett.
Yawn. They weren’t interested (the Red Sox) two days ago and their interest was “overblown”. Now the Yankees seemingly step it up for Burnett and the Red Sox are suddenly intertested again? Yeah right. It is the obligatory interest game these two teams play with each other all the time. The Yankees and Red Sox are written about being “in” on every good player (trade or free agent.) Don’t believe most of it. Most of the time it is a sports writer pretending to have inside info. by throwing the two richest teams’ names out there or a PR ploy by those two teams to make their fans think they’re in on good players that in reality they are not.
Gonzalez for Ankiel? Hell no!
By sowegadawg
December 9, 2008 8:36 AM | Link to this
the braves have not won since they lost a lead-off hitter in furcal. the mets have reyes, the phillies, rollins. they play national league baseball, yes we need another power bat, but it will mean zilch with out a disruptive presence in the lead-off spot.
By BravesFanInRockies
December 9, 2008 8:46 AM | Link to this
KneeJerk,
Bigger than Frenchy?
Hermida has alternated solid seasons with awful ones. He’s coming off a bad one this year. He may end up being no better than Francouer, but he’s actually shown that he can recognize pitches and in his good years, he’s had A LOT more power than Frenchy.
And they’re the same age. If you can’t find a FA who’s worth a major financial commitment and the Mariins will talk to you, I’d give Hermida a much stronger chance of having a productive ML career than Francouer.
By Bill in ATL
December 9, 2008 8:53 AM | Link to this
I’m with sowegadawg on getting a true leadoff hitter with speed. I’d MUCH rather have someone of that type than a slow, low Batting Average, high strikeout, but high HR guy in the OF.
Makes the idea someone floated about Furcal playing 2B somewhat attractive. That’s the only kind of scenario that I wouldn’t mind moving KJ to the OF. The idea of KJ to OF and Prado at 2B is not so hot for the obvious reason that you are simply getting Prado instead of a run producing outfielder.
FWIW, I still can’t believe that Towers could be this childish. So perhaps the talk that Jake is really calling the shots is the real answer. I think we’ll hear the truth soon enough.
By Bama
December 9, 2008 9:00 AM | Link to this
Reds want Jeff and Braves don’t want to move him? Put his A@@ on the road. Why does he get special treatment/ Damn joke.
Maybe another reason players don’t want to play for Braves. Big deal Braves go after player like Akiel, one year wonder.It will be a long year if AJ turns us down.
By Scott
December 9, 2008 9:05 AM | Link to this
To me the best thing to happen would be for the Yanks to up the anty for Burnett and put us in a position where we have to re-visit the Peavy deal. He is the pitcher we need, and that would put us in a position where we need a SS and we need a lead off man, so Furcal would be a perfect fit. He probably has 3-5 years of good production left.
At that point I think we should sign Abreu for a couple years unless there is someway we could possibly pry Dye away from the Sox.
Furcal SS Kotchman 1 Chipper 3 Abreu/Dye LF McCann C Francouer RF Johnson 2 Shafer/Blanco CF
Peavy Jurrgens Smoltz Vasquez Hanson
By TampaBrave
December 9, 2008 9:06 AM | Link to this
I don’t usually disagree with Bobby Cox that often, but does BC need cataract surgery? I mean, Kelly Johnson is a poor defensive second baseman. To eliminate him from playing outfield based on his high opinion of him at 2B, makes me wonder if BC has all of his faculties. DOB, Any signs of dimensia there with the old skipper?
By gayle
December 9, 2008 9:10 AM | Link to this
Maddux was the best, a real class act. The Braves lost alot of luster when he left. Of the “Big Three”, Mad Dog should have been the one to stay here for his career.
By GermanBravesFan
December 9, 2008 9:11 AM | Link to this
Bill in ATL - the Braves have made it clear they will NOT move Kelly Johnson back to LF…
By GermanBravesFan
December 9, 2008 9:17 AM | Link to this
Scott - how should that scenario work out with what the Braves have financially? Furcal will demand at least $12 million per year, Vazquez is getting $11.5 million, Peavy in his first year $11 million (I hope I am right with that figure) and then you want to add Abreu ($11 million?) or Dye ($11.5 million)? Plus, whom do you want to trade to the White Sox for Dye? Plus, you will need to add Smoltz’s salary to that…
Oh… and that one pitcher’s name is spelled Jurrjens…
By Don't Trade Franceour, Sheesh
December 9, 2008 9:25 AM | Link to this
Derosa to Philly…Pie to Baltimore…Peavy to Chicago…Prospects to San Diego…?
By DAP
December 9, 2008 9:28 AM | Link to this
JasonInFL (formerly ME) check this out about rios’ contract
the guy will soon be extremely overpaid through 2014, his OBP is just decent, and he doesnt have a ton of power. he would be a great offensive SS, but not a great corner outfielder. im still shocked the blue jays signed this contract with him. anyways, there is no way the braves should trade for him.
By bill
December 9, 2008 9:29 AM | Link to this
Hey German… maybe Scott was reading the bottle in front of him as he imagined that lineup. It could happen to the best of us so cut him some slack.
By JC from UT
December 9, 2008 9:30 AM | Link to this
Does Francouer to the Reds have any merit? They seem willing to give up Homer Bailey for Jermaine dye and his $11mill salary. It could open up RF for Abreu for 2 years until Heyward is ready. Or with Bailey now a Brave FW has one more arm to put out there for Corey Hart.
By Corey
December 9, 2008 9:31 AM | Link to this
I like the Ankiel for a reliever trade, just not Mike Gonzalez. I would add another player to the mix and get that done. The fact that he can play all three outfield positions adds so much versatility to the line-up. And, in a full season, he has the potential to be a .290-35-110 guy.
I still say Burnett ends up in pin stripes, especially if the Yanks miss out on Sabathia. They’re already reportedly prepared to offer more money (4 years @ 64 mil). If the Braves guarantee a 5th year, the Yanks will too if CC is off the table. Then, it will come down to just money… And, we all know who wins that battle.
So, then what? I would hope we would swoop in a get Peavy before the Cubs do. The next best thing is Lowe, but he’s 35 and probably headed to Boston for a long term deal that I would not touch if I were the Braves. After that, the next best long term option in my opinion is Oliver Perez, but I had higher hopes than that for this offseason.
**I know this Peavy thing is supposed to be dead. But, if we miss out on Burnett and Peavy, so are we!
Also, Peter Gammons is reporting that Prince Fielder could be traded. Could we possibly work something out with the Brewers for Fielder and Hardy?**
By DAP
December 9, 2008 9:33 AM | Link to this
gayle Mad Dog should have been the one to stay here for his career.
but he didnt, so credit smoltz with that one.
By Scott
December 9, 2008 9:34 AM | Link to this
GBF
with the figures you gave, 12+11.5+11+11=45.5, Wren said the figure was around 45 so, that works nicely, Smoltz and Glavine money was not considered to be a part of the 45 mil. That is just my wish list, but obviously it won’t all happen, but that would be my choice if I were playing GM on Playstation. It sounds like Peavy may not want to be a Brave.
Jurrgens is an inside joke by the way!
By Original Jon
December 9, 2008 9:34 AM | Link to this
Hey Bill if that were the case, it would be spelled Jergens. Not Jurrgens.
By ncscoots
December 9, 2008 9:36 AM | Link to this
Braveheart, I guess I’ll have to slip on my latte-stained faded khakis and grab a white wine, then, if a set of stats is trying to convince me that KJ is (far) worse defensively than Jose Lopez and Dan Uggla. I think I’ll just go with my own anecdotal evidence that says, “bubba, that just ain’t right.”
By Efrim
December 9, 2008 9:37 AM | Link to this
Braves interested in Maholm/Snell:
http://www.timesonline.com/articles/2008/12/08/sports/pirates/doc493dfdc65512c594689029.txt
By Scott
December 9, 2008 9:38 AM | Link to this
Thanks Bill,
At least you saw some humor in it!
By Adolf Hitler
December 9, 2008 9:40 AM | Link to this
GemanBravesFan,
Here’s a better scenario.Report to the Russian front immediately. We need hard-asses like you to beat back those pesky vodka-swilling Ruskies.
By McFann O –[zzz]
December 9, 2008 9:42 AM | Link to this
Steve-O I saw someone else post a link before..I think we may just have to adjust some internet explorer things
Yeah…I’ve been looking at the Preferences for Safari, and haven’t found anything yet. But I’m sure I messed it up when I was trying to get Javascript…’Cause since then I haven’t been able to do links.
OK, trade a reliever and a minor leaguer for Ankiel, sign Burnett, and our middle infield is safe!
By McFann O –[zzz]
December 9, 2008 9:45 AM | Link to this
Prince Fielder? Man, we don’t need a first baseman!
By Rick Long
December 9, 2008 9:45 AM | Link to this
What a surprise, the Yankees are now knocking on Burnett’s door. So where are thou now Mr. Wren, about to get in a bidding war with the Yankees for an overrated, underachieving oft injured hurler? Sounds like good business to me, man! I don’t see the fascination with Burnett in the first instance and considering giving him a 5 year contract is insane. With their unlimited budget, The Yankees can afford to make a mistake with Burnett; the Braves cannot.
If you are THAT desparate for a front line pitcher, stop the testosterone olympiad with Towers and get a Peavy deal done.
By GermanBravesFan
December 9, 2008 9:50 AM | Link to this
Scott - thanks for the clarification on the “inside joke” ;-)
Bill - isn’t it kinda early to look at a bottle?
Question is: how bad does Towers want Hanson in a deal for Peavy? Would the Padres consider paying part of Peavy’s salary? If not for the duration of the contract, then how about for the first three years? That way, the Braves could keep Escobar and, if they manage to win the Burnett sweepstakes, would have a deadly rotation for the next three years? Why not trade Hanson if that potentially could give the Braves a shot to go very, very deep into the playoffs the next three years (2009: Peavy/Burnett/Jurrjens/Smoltz/Vazquez; 2010: Peavy/Hudson/Burnett/Jurrjens/Vazquez)?
As I mentioned above: one can always dream!
By Joe M.
December 9, 2008 9:50 AM | Link to this
Reds want Jeff and Braves don’t want to move him? Put his A@@ on the road. Why does he get special treatment/ Damn joke.
Amen. I said here at the start of the offseason if the Braves keep Francoeur and trade Escobar/Johnson, than they’re the Pirates of the NL East. Trading good players while keeping crappy ones just because of “potential” and “fan appeal” is one of the reasons the Pirates are still bad after all these years.
Look, I like Johnson, but left field should be out of the question. He’s more valuable in a trade if that is the case. As a second baseman, his offense puts him in the top-tier at a premium position. As a left fielder, he’s just bleh.
By McFann O –[zzz]
December 9, 2008 9:52 AM | Link to this
Mets are reportedly close to signing K-Rod……
……oh VORP.
By BRAVEFANINPA
December 9, 2008 9:53 AM | Link to this
DOB- I’ve ask this before and not gotten any response. Why is Pat Burrell’s name not mentioned as a possible LF? I’ve been up north here for several years and followed the phillies for about 7 of 11 years-NO they will never replace any of the ATLANTA teams- but Pat B. was a pretty darn good LF- Why no mention? Great article Dave- Go Braves-
By JohnGTFan
December 9, 2008 9:53 AM | Link to this
DOB
Come on man…LOL…why are you bringing up the possibility of Peavy? you’re going to get people excited for no reason. He’s either going to the Cubs or staying in S.D.
By Anders
December 9, 2008 9:54 AM | Link to this
Efrim
I like Snell. That guy can hurl. As for Ankiel. If the Cards are willing to move him for a non closing type releiver plus, I hope the Mets talk to them about maybe Heilman and Feliciano. Heilman is the perfect type of project for Dave Duncan. Feliciano is the type of specialist that Larussa covets too. Maybe the Mets throw in some cash with Feliciano too.
I know many on here will scream about Heilman imploding etc , but he still has upside potential imo and is cheap and controllable for another year or two which is hard to believe because it seems like he’s been around a long time already. He definetly needs a change in scenery though - too much baggage the last two years with the Mets. Just spitballing on this one.
By GermanBravesFan
December 9, 2008 9:58 AM | Link to this
Someone posting at Adolf Hitler in itself isn’t funny… the remark was even worse. Sorry…
By Efrim
December 9, 2008 10:03 AM | Link to this
Anders
I like Snell too, but he is a huge injury risk. We are in the bidding for one currently, so I’m not sure it would make sense for the Braves to go after someone like Snell through trade.
Thoughts on K-Rod? What a perfect season to be hunting for a closer or a corner OF bat. Of course, a corner OF bat if you are in the American League, because you may as well stick a basket out in LF for some of these guys.
By GTSteve
December 9, 2008 10:03 AM | Link to this
We are only about 11 weeks away from Pitchers and Catchers reporting, lets hope some things happen soon to make that mean something.
By JC from UT
December 9, 2008 10:05 AM | Link to this
if Blaine Boyer has been working with Smoltz does that mean Boyer is looking to make a run as a started or stay in the pen. IMO Boyer should bea stsrter.
By Mark
December 9, 2008 10:06 AM | Link to this
New Rumor with Francouer and Grienke on MLBTR:
According to one National League executive, the Kansas City Royals and Atlanta Braves have had serious discussions about a trade that would send outfielder Jeff Francouer to the Royals for pitcher Zack Greinke. The same source said he believed the teams were close to executing the deal, but that Atlanta was holding up any and all trade discussions until the Braves had a resolution of their pursuit of right-hander A.J. Burnett.
By flange1
December 9, 2008 10:06 AM | Link to this
Morning All,
It is always fun when the WInter Meeting start and the hot stove starts blazing!
So many options and opportunities!
I hope the Braves choose NOT to trade Gonzo. I like Soriano but am still not convinced he will ever be healthy.
I worry about giving up too much for 1 year of Ankiel. He is a Boras client and will not resign with the Braves, so it will be a 1 year rental. Maybe Redmon and and a relief pitcher….
And I go back to the suggestion I made a couple days back about talking to the Dodgers about trading Yunel for Matt Kemp and signing Furcal to play short.
It makes more sense the more I think about it.
Kemp gives you 2 RH OF to surround the left in CF. Kemp can play CF, so you can keep Diaz as the 4th OF.
It also creates a “competition” for the permanent player. Which ever of Kemp and Frenchy plays better stays when Heyward is ready, the other is traded.
But think about a bench of Norton, Prado, Infante, Diaz and BUC. That is a nice offensive group that can handle playing in the field.
It also frees up J Anderson and G Blanco for trades.
Maybe we throw in an OF and or a prospect and pick up one of LA’s short stop prospects as well.
By muxi87
December 9, 2008 10:08 AM | Link to this
From MLBtraderumors.com: According to one National League executive, the Kansas City Royals and Atlanta Braves have had serious discussions about a trade that would send outfielder Jeff Francouer to the Royals for pitcher Zack Greinke. The same source said he believed the teams were close to executing the deal, but that Atlanta was holding up any and all trade discussions until the Braves had a resolution of their pursuit of right-hander A.J. Burnett.
If that’s true, the trigger’s got to be pulled. I really doubt it, but that’d be a great deal.
By Kaiser Wilhelm II
December 9, 2008 10:08 AM | Link to this
According to one National League executive, the Kansas City Royals and Atlanta Braves have had serious discussions about a trade that would send outfielder Jeff Francouer to the Royals for pitcher Zack Greinke. The same source said he believed the teams were close to executing the deal, but that Atlanta was holding up any and all trade discussions until the Braves had a resolution of their pursuit of right-hander A.J. Burnett.
By McFann O –[zzz]
December 9, 2008 10:11 AM | Link to this
Anders I like Snell.
I like him, too…McCann hit two homers off him in one game once; has a .643 AVG, .667 OBP, and a 1.429 SLG against him…3 homers, 2 doubles, 7 RBI…
Maybe the Mets want Snell?? ; )
By GermanBravesFan
December 9, 2008 10:12 AM | Link to this
GTSteve - the Braves already signed a catcher, if that helps at all…
By Original Jon
December 9, 2008 10:15 AM | Link to this
You know, I like Burnett when he is healthy. When he is healthy, he has the stuff and mental makeup of an Ace, but, how often is he healthy? I cannot believe that Wren would actually consider going 5 years on a pitcher who has only pitched over 200 innings 3 times since 2001, especially after the rash of injuries we just had this past year. You would think he would throw that kind of money at Derek Lowe who is more durable than Burnett. Because all we need is another year where we lose our Ace due to injuries, and the bad part about that would be that we have him for 4 more years.
By The Oracle
December 9, 2008 10:18 AM | Link to this
GBF, I got a chuckle out of it. Does this mean I can’t watch my Hogan’s Heroes reruns? Perhaps we could just write WWII out of the history books.
By Corey
December 9, 2008 10:18 AM | Link to this
McFann O –[zzz] You’re right. I’d rather have Casey Krotch-man’s 14 homers than Prince Fielder’s 34 any day.
By 1957 Braves Fan
December 9, 2008 10:19 AM | Link to this
I think Francoeur for Greinke would be a good deal for both teams. But it opens up another hole in the outfield for us.
By flange1
December 9, 2008 10:20 AM | Link to this
Snell would be a great addition.
Frenchy for Greinke would be too good to dream of.
Anders, is one year or Ankiel worth Heilman and Feliciano? I would think that the 2 have more value.
By Richie
December 9, 2008 10:20 AM | Link to this
A potential Greinke for Francoeur swap? Wow!!! That would be something. You add a Burnett to that rotation as well and we have quite a formidable rotation. I would still prefer we get a LH starter, especially with the lefties and switch hitters we have in this division. But that would force us to go after 2 outfielders, though…
By Shawn B
December 9, 2008 10:22 AM | Link to this
I would love to see the Braves get Greinke, young affordable and very very good, but I can’t see the Royals being dumb enough to go him for Frenchy. Braves would have to add a lot more. Snell would also be a great addition if that is a possibility. Kevin Towers is such a jerk, I hope the Braves never do business with him.
By Efrim
December 9, 2008 10:22 AM | Link to this
http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extrabases/2008/12/andanother_thi.html
No way this happens, but anyways:
According to one National League executive, the Kansas City Royals and Atlanta Braves have had serious discussions about a trade that would send outfielder Jeff Francouer to the Royals for pitcher Zack Greinke. The same source said he believed the teams were close to executing the deal, but that Atlanta was holding up any and all trade discussions until the Braves had a resolution of their pujrsuit of right-hander A.J. Burnett. Current Royals GM Dayton Moore (who interviewed for the Red Sox’ job during Theo Epstein’s walkabout in 2005-06) is a former member of the Braves organization who is eager to bring Francouer to Kansas City.
Yea….I’m sure it’s Francoeur….and Hanson…..and Escobar.
No thanks.
By KC
December 9, 2008 10:24 AM | Link to this
I also have my doubts as to the veracity of the Francoeur/Greinke report. And if it were true, I don’t see why the Braves would be waiting to see what happens with Burnett.
By the way, I’m not sure if anyone else is mentioned it, but ESPN is a reporting in a blog the the Red Sox are also in the mix for Burnett.
By McFann O –[zzz]
December 9, 2008 10:27 AM | Link to this
Corey—
Me, too.
And, uh…it’s not “Krotchman”…there’s no “r”.
By KC
December 9, 2008 10:28 AM | Link to this
Red Sox in the mix for Burnett
Monday, December 8, 2008
Posted by Jerry Crasnick
The latest on A.J. Burnett: The pitcher’s agent, Darek Braunecker, and Mark Rodgers met with the Red Sox on Monday afternoon, and it appears Boston is right there in the mix with Atlanta and the Yankees for Burnett.
By JP
December 9, 2008 10:28 AM | Link to this
DOB, GREAT article on Maddux. With everything there is to write about the pitcher and how he pitched, it easy to see how everyone has overlooked all of the gold gloves. Just another thing that put him in a class all by himself. Thanks again for all of the insight about his stats and all of the memorable stories.
By Gary82
December 9, 2008 10:29 AM | Link to this
I would be shocked if Dayton takes Frenchy for Greinke.
By GEO123
December 9, 2008 10:29 AM | Link to this
With all due respect, I don’t think that the Cardinals would do a Gonzalez for Ankiel trade (maybe I’m wrong). Granted, Ankiel will go the FA route next year, but he’s a 30+ homer guy who plays a Plus CF with the best arm in baseball. Also, keep in mind that Gonzalez had a 4.28 ERA this past year, not exactly dominating the league. BTW how many years does Gonzalez have before FA?
I also don’t see a Kelly Johnson for anybody trade right now with the Cardinals. The Cardinals still have Adam Kennedy at 2B and owe him 4 million. So unless someone takes him off of our hands, we don’t have a need for him.
By GermanBravesFan
December 9, 2008 10:30 AM | Link to this
The Oracle - I love Hogan’s Heroes!! And, no, don’t write WWII out of the history books. I am glad it ended the way it did. Who knows, otherwise, there wouldn’t be any more baseball and all of the current Braves fans would be watching soccer instead (not that there would be anything wrong with that)…. ;-)
By Bama
December 9, 2008 10:36 AM | Link to this
If it true--Jeff for Greinke- Please don’t wait pull the trigger Wren. Holy Cow!
By DAP
December 9, 2008 10:38 AM | Link to this
trading francouer would not mean we needed to get two outfielders. the outfielders we have minus frenchy are diaz, anderson, blanco, b. jones and jordan shafer waiting in the wings, possibly ready to start out of spring training.
these are not great outfielders, but its not like we would be losing a great outfielder if we traded jeff.
By Anders
December 9, 2008 10:39 AM | Link to this
Efrim
If the Mets get K-Rod for the two year or more likely three year deal being bandied about I have no problem with that. I thought for sure it would be a 4 year minimum. I’ll be really suprised if he signs a two year deal.
If the Mets could pry Ankiel away from the Cards for the type of guys being talked about on here they could then think about trading Delgado to the loser of the Tex sweepstakes for a real good 8th inning type set-up guy. Delgado’s value is definetly up especially after last season and at $12 mil for 1 year he’s the perfect stop gap. The Mets could then move Daniel Murphy from left to 1st which is his natural position anyway. They could platoon Tatis with both Church and Ankiel as a right handed bat. They also would have Chavez on the bench for outfield defense.Ankiel, Beltran and Church left to right - not a bad outfield.
And they would still have money for a top starting pitcher and maybe another reliever. Sounds like they’re going with Jonathan Niese as their #5.
I guess I’m getting my Christmas list in order here.
By Richie
December 9, 2008 10:40 AM | Link to this
* GEO123*
Also, keep in mind that Gonzalez had a 4.28 ERA this past year, not exactly dominating the league.
BTW, remember he just came back from TJ surgery. And he didnt have his velocity back yet either. This year we will see the Gonzalez we traded for. And his is up for FA after this year, I think….
By David O'Brien
December 9, 2008 10:41 AM | Link to this
If the Cubs get Peavy in this complex multi-team trade, I’d say we have a frontrunner in the early handicapping of next season’s NL pennant race. That potential Cubs starting rotation … wow.
By Efrim
December 9, 2008 10:44 AM | Link to this
KC
Crasnick is still the only one to report that.
My guess is that the Red Sox, and Yankees, are in on everyone. Or at least checking in.
Not sure either team would go to five years for Burnett. Especially the Red Sox, who clearly have less of a desire to add pitching.
By Bubdylan
December 9, 2008 10:45 AM | Link to this
Okay, truly I have the baseball business IQ of a drunk fish, but I’ll go out on a limb and say that if the Braves get Greinke for Franceour, I’ll tattoo Frank Wren’s name on my butt cheeks and run naked down Peachtree.
By ncscoots
December 9, 2008 10:46 AM | Link to this
I think Francoeur for Greinke would be a good deal for both teams. But it opens up another hole in the outfield for us.
Not necessarily another hole. That might be the place you put a Brandon Jones/Matt Diaz platoon, always assuming you get a big bat for LF. A RH bat, that is. That platoon would certainly give you more flexibility going forward than Anderson and Blanco.
By car3boogie
December 9, 2008 10:47 AM | Link to this
How binding is an Offer made to a Free Agent.
By Anders
December 9, 2008 10:47 AM | Link to this
McFann
Maybe the Mets want Snell?? ; )
I’d be happy to have Snell serve up some dingers to your boy as long as Burrell is out of the division. He has about 29 lifetime homers against the Mets! I’m not kidding. He kills the Mets.
Maybe the Braves should consider that?
By Dean
December 9, 2008 10:48 AM | Link to this
It’s almost as if the season never ended. The bad news continues. Peavy to the Cubs. Braves work to piece together a rotation based on medical miracles. Oh, what’s that, the Phillies and Mets are actually upgrading? There’s a thought.
Can someone set me straight? We are going to add big money for Burnett and his rubber arm when we could’ve had Peavy for less money? But, you know, we won’t even get Burnett cause we bidding with the dark side.
F is a grade for the 2008 year not just season. F is for Frank and other moments of vent.
By McFann O –[zzz]
December 9, 2008 10:51 AM | Link to this
GermanBravesFan—
I LOVE Hogan’s Heros, too! One of my most favorite shows!
Later!
By Efrim
December 9, 2008 10:51 AM | Link to this
DOB
If the Cubs get Peavy in this complex multi-team trade, I’d say we have a frontrunner in the early handicapping of next season’s NL pennant race. That potential Cubs starting rotation … wow.
It’s also quite injury prone. But yes, potentially dominating.
By David O'Brien
December 9, 2008 10:51 AM | Link to this
Talked late last night to someone with good Red Sox sources who said he got the impression the team was talking to Burnett’s agent more as a backup plan than anything else, in case they don’t get Teixeira and turn their attentions (and wallet) toward pitching. And he said they don’t have A.J. atop their pitching board and probably wouldn’t go five years — unless, of course, owner John Henry really has a special interest in Burnett, who threw his nine-walk no-hitter for the Marlins when Henry owned the team.
I can still remember seeing Henry come into the clubhouse after that game, all red-faced and out of breath after literally running across the parking lot trying to make it into the stadium to see the final outs. Henry had been at dinner that night with his wife in San Diego, getting updates on Burnett’s no-hit bid, when finally he asked his wife if it’d be OK if he left to try to see the end of the game.
His cab driver had to stop at the periphery of the huge parking lot because of security, which wasn’t letting people into the lot so late in the game. Henry ran the last quarter-mile or so (it’s a huge lot at the old stadium in San Diego).
When us Marlins beat writers saw Henry, he explained what had happened.
By the way, he didn’t make it in time to see Burnett throw a single pitch.
Anyway … that’s my John Henry/A.J. Burnett no-hit story.
By Anders
December 9, 2008 10:53 AM | Link to this
If the Cubs get Peavy in this complex multi-team trade, I’d say we have a frontrunner in the early handicapping of next season’s NL pennant race. That potential Cubs starting rotation … wow.
Of course they will have to go to Washington for some “Bail out” money to meet payroll. Appears to be no shame in that these days - huh?
By Wayne in Utah
December 9, 2008 10:54 AM | Link to this
Deal or No Deal: I take the deal Mister General Manager!
Frenchy would require another arm to get Greinke (at a minimum), so send them Morton or JoJo.
Gonzo for Ankiel, I would probably do that, as you just never know about a guys arm.
So, now go sign Burnett and talk Smoltz into being our closer until his arm falls off! (gotta love that guy!)
By Joe M.
December 9, 2008 10:55 AM | Link to this
Also, keep in mind that Gonzalez had a 4.28 ERA this past year, not exactly dominating the league.
Gonzalez also had a 1.19 WHIP (lower than in 2006 and 2007) and 44 strikeouts in 33 and 2/3rds innings. Homeruns were the problem, but that’ll calm down. He should be more than good in 2009 and the Braves should absolutely not trade him.
The Royals taking Francoeur rumor is too good to be true. If it was true, why hasn’t Wren done it? The Burnett thing shouldn’t hold up that trade at all; the Braves can afford both.
By WhiteMike
December 9, 2008 10:56 AM | Link to this
If the Braves want a mid to back end of the rotation starter, I would much rather see them sign Garland for two years than trade away Francouer for Grienke.
By KC
December 9, 2008 10:56 AM | Link to this
Yeah, I sure hope the Cubs don’t get Peavy. That would make them an absolute beast.
In order to have any chance against them in October, we’d have to sign Burnett, AND we’d have to have either a big comeback from Smoltz or a Hamels-like immediate impact from Hanson.
However, if we sign Burnett, our 2010 rotation looks potentially as good as any in baseball.
By Dan
December 9, 2008 10:57 AM | Link to this
I am still holding out hope that the Braves enter the Peavy sweepstakes again. He is a much better option going forward than AJ Burnett.
Please no Rick Ankiel.
By Bama
December 9, 2008 10:58 AM | Link to this
DOB I agree Cubs would be WOW..wow..wow..ESPN said its almost done, so was the deal with Braves till..all hell broke loose. Sometimes you’re dealing with a a@@. Looks like Braves maybe out in the cold again with AJ. Hope not.
By Thundersticks
December 9, 2008 11:04 AM | Link to this
DOB
Have you heard anything on the rumored Frenchy for Greinke trade? Is there any merit to it at all?
Thanks!!
By David O'Brien
December 9, 2008 11:04 AM | Link to this
Francoeur for Greinke rumor, huh? I can’t see that. Not straight-up. Dayton Moore likes Francoeur, but I can’t see that happening without a good prospect also being sent to K.C.
I’ll ask, but would be stunned if Royals did that straight-up swap.
But I do know the Braves have talked to them this winter about Greinke, and the Royals would trade him for the right return.
Just can’t see Frenchy alone, coming off that 2008 season as something that would go over well in K.C.
By Bama
December 9, 2008 11:05 AM | Link to this
Wren needs to Call Congress and ask them about Spreading The wealth.
By Efrim
December 9, 2008 11:07 AM | Link to this
DOB
I know you said this in your blog, but do you get a sense that AJ will sign this week even after the Yanks jumping into the bidding? Sabathia is probably going to wait until after the meetings, so if the Braves offer five years, do you think he would turn it down while waiting for the Yanks offer? If so, do the Braves ask for a decision quickly before Sabathia makes his move?
By Marty
December 9, 2008 11:08 AM | Link to this
Looks like Towers definitely will not get the same caliber of talent for Peavy that he could have gotten from the Braves. It does make me wonder what was really going on there…
By Anders
December 9, 2008 11:08 AM | Link to this
The Red Sox are in on Burnett to keep the Yankees honest on Lowe. The Sox want Lowe not Burnett.
The Braves biggest concern is CC. If he doesn’t sign with the Yanks - forget Burnett. The Yanks will blow your offer away. If CC does sign with the Yanks, then we’ll see if the Yanks come close to your offer and Burnett would be happier closer to home and riding shotgun rather than having the #1 pressure in Atlanta.
By ncscoots
December 9, 2008 11:09 AM | Link to this
Yeah, I sure hope the Cubs don’t get Peavy. That would make them an absolute beast.
Right up until the time Zambrano decides he’s not getting the respect he deserves, goes postal on Peavy for taking some of the spotlight, and they both go down in a jumble of torn ligaments and fractured elbows. The team splits into factions, Pinella loses the clubhouse, Cubs go 81-81, the new owner says “to hell with this”, and slices payroll to the Padres’ level.
Peavy announces in the offseason, “I want to play for a winner.”
By PopeVanIII
December 9, 2008 11:11 AM | Link to this
DOB
Re: Francoeur for Greinke…
What if the Braves also agreed to take Jose Guillen (and the full $24 million owed to him over the next two seasons) in the deal, too? Might that (drastically) reduce the amount of additional value we’d have to add to Francoeur in the deal?
By Don't Trade Franceour, Sheesh
December 9, 2008 11:12 AM | Link to this
NNNNNOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
By Corey
December 9, 2008 11:16 AM | Link to this
The Braves finished 20 games behind Philly last year. Hudson is out for the season, so even if we get Burnett, that’s a wash.
In 2008, we started the season with Tex @ 1B and a rotation that included Hudson, Smoltz, Jurrjens, Glavine & Hampton.
Now, they plan to add an outfield bat which maybe can offset what we’re losing with Kotchman vs. Tex. But, is going into spring with Burnett, Jurrjens, Vazquez, Reyes, Hanson any better than last year (when we finished 20 games out)?
By northbeach Scott
December 9, 2008 11:20 AM | Link to this
Gaining Greinke and unburdening the Braves of Francouer would be outstanding. Even if the Braves have to add a top prospect, perhaps they could also pick up corner OF and salary of Jose Guillen.
Pray that the incompetent and ineffectual Frenchy will be gone from Atlanta.
By Wayne in Utah
December 9, 2008 11:21 AM | Link to this
scoots Weren’t we crowning the Tigers as a playoff lock last winter too?
By Voice from the past
December 9, 2008 11:22 AM | Link to this
For all who will so quickly pencil the Cubs in the 2009 World Series if they actually acquire Peavy (assuming Towers doesn’t pull another 11th hour bait and switch), may I remind you:
2008 Detroit Tigers.
Seems to me after they acquired Miguel Cabrera and Dontrelle Willis, we all thought they’d walk into the title. Didn’t happen. Gotta play the games.
I’m just sayin’…
By JR
December 9, 2008 11:22 AM | Link to this
My guess is that if the Frenchy for Greinke thing has any validity then it is their as a back up if the Braves do not get AJ. Why else would we be waiting for AJ to decide. Hopefully, AJ will see that Atlanta really wants him and is our top pick this off season and decide to sign. All of you guys that doubt AJ that’s fine, but you have to realize that’s the market for the type of pitcher he is. We need power pitching, and all of our quality pitching prospects are just that, prospects. We need MLB ready guys and I would rather see the Braves an active player in the market than someone that sits back and does nothing.
By David O'Brien
December 9, 2008 11:22 AM | Link to this
Wayne in Utah (and others who’d trade Gonzo for Ankiel): You’d really do that? Trade your closer for one year of Ankiel? And then you have to go get a closer.
Doesn’t make any sense, does it? Smoltz isn’t closing, Moylan may or may not be ready for the start of the season and surely isn’t going to be counted on as a closer with no experience in the role and coming off TJ surgery. And Braves won’t know until at least January the chances of Soriano being ready for beginning of season.
By DOB to Chitown
December 9, 2008 11:22 AM | Link to this
DOB - We need an objective opinion. City’s up in arms Santo didn’t get in HoF. Should he be in?
By Anders
December 9, 2008 11:25 AM | Link to this
I’d like everyone to meet my younger brother - Corey
By GermanBravesFan
December 9, 2008 11:27 AM | Link to this
Now, if the Cubs get Peavy, it won’t matter anymore whom the Braves get. Yes, they might make the playoffs, but how are they going to match up with he Cubs and THAT rotation???
By Bonzo
December 9, 2008 11:27 AM | Link to this
I’m guessing the only way the Braves go forward on a Frenchy-Greinke deal is if they miss out on Burnett and Peavy. Of course, if they did a Frenchy-Greinke deal I’m sure Braves would have to give a top prospect. Maybe not Hanson or Heyward big, but it would be a near can’t miss pitching prospect I’m guessing.
By Adam
December 9, 2008 11:28 AM | Link to this
I have serious doubts that KC would trade Greinke straight up for Frenchy, but both teams have players that appeal to each other. KJ or Escobar would both be a nice fit for KC and the Braves need an ace and Greinke fits the bill. I could also see Guillen as a player the Braves would be interested in. Frenchy, KJ and maybe JoJo or Morton and a high level prospect not named Hanson or Heyward. Greinke would be dominant in the NL.
By JR
December 9, 2008 11:28 AM | Link to this
KC
If the Cubs get Peavy they’re a beast “on paper”. Just like the Yankees have been a beast “on paper” too. The Cubs will find a way to LOSE. There’s not much meddle to that team. A lot of talent, but no meddle
By Lee in S GA
December 9, 2008 11:28 AM | Link to this
I had rather Peavy go to the Cubs than the Phillies. They are after all the Cubs therefore prone to not having back to back winning seasons, and if going to the post season, blowing the 1st round of the playoffs leaving their fans on the brink of going to AA meetings instead of future Wrigley Field and Turner Field games. Also not to mention Sweet Lou finally going berserk and Zambrano (who I would assume the Braves would not want either becasue of his attitude)eventually punching a Cub player in the face. I see disaster instead of World series written all over this if the trade happens.
By Mike
December 9, 2008 11:29 AM | Link to this
If it was Frenchy for Grienke straight up or for on more no name prospect. i guess go for it, though it shouldn’t stop our AJ pursuit, and i am still wary of giving up on Frenchy just yet. If he realizes his potential, that would suck. But so would him having another bad year and then we really are stuck with him. Also dont trade KJ or Gonzo or Esco for one year of Ankiel. Hes good, but not that good for one year of his services.
By Thrillhouse44
December 9, 2008 11:31 AM | Link to this
Corey, Hudson, Smoltz, Glavine, and Hampton all missed significant time due to injuries last year. One has to think that it’s improbable that kind of luck will strike again.
By GermanBravesFan
December 9, 2008 11:32 AM | Link to this
How about Boyer for Ankiel?
By Voice of the past
December 9, 2008 11:32 AM | Link to this
By DOB to Chitown December 9, 2008 11:22 AM | Link to this DOB - We need an objective opinion. City’s up in arms Santo didn’t get in HoF. Should he be in?
If you get Peavy, you will, in fact, be up in arms. Up by alot.
By ernesto
December 9, 2008 11:36 AM | Link to this
DOB - is that Stark article on ESPN accurate, it’s either the Cubs get Peavy or he stays in SD?
Or more posturing from Towers?
It’s getting hard to tell.
By John
December 9, 2008 11:39 AM | Link to this
DOB!!!!!!!!
I am hearing from MLBTRADERUMORS>COM that a possible swapping of Francouer and Grienke could soon occur.
Any news on that??
thanks as always
By AR Brave
December 9, 2008 11:39 AM | Link to this
Gonzo for one year of Ankiel does make sense because to the plethora of closers available on the market right now. and has anyone seen ankiel’s defensive arm? We need pop in batting line up? Add prince fielder and dunn. trade kotchman who is a good player but nothing above good. sign dunn. keep the middle infield and sign AJ. screw peavy and towers for the way they handled this situation. They might want a guy from us someday, but nope we are through with them. Keep frenchy and tell him to mimic chipper in the batter’s box so maybe he can learn some patience.
By Jake W
December 9, 2008 11:40 AM | Link to this
If the Braves end up not getting Burnett and ESPN reporting the Padres are close to trading Peavy to the Cubs, what are the chances they go after Sheets? I know he’s not what we want with his injury history but maybe we can get him at a cheaper price and take the risk that he’ll actually stay healthy.
And I agree with you DOB anyone wanting to trade Gonzo would be crazy with all the injury questions we have with our bullpen.
And to Anders I appreciate your concern over the Braves but why don’t you tell me about the mets and what they are trying to do to get better instead of worrying so much about what the Braves are doing.
By Wayne in Utah
December 9, 2008 11:41 AM | Link to this
Dave It would be hard to do, but I would entertain trading Gonzo. The closer market seems to be a buyers market this year. I have hopes that Gonzo is going to be great for years to come, but we have all seem first hand the fragile nature of pitchers in general.
Guys like Trevor Hoffman and Kerry Wood are available, and others are available in trade (Putz, Valverde, Street, etc).
I think I would do it.
By Random
December 9, 2008 11:41 AM | Link to this
Anders: “The Braves biggest concern is CC. If he doesn’t sign with the Yanks - forget Burnett. The Yanks will blow your offer away. If CC does sign with the Yanks, then we’ll see if the Yanks come close to your offer and Burnett would be happier closer to home and riding shotgun rather than having the #1 pressure in Atlanta.”
So — Burnett’s too timid (or whatever) to be the #1 pitcher in player-friendly Atlanta, but would jump at the chance to be the #1 pitcher in NYC (if Sabathia winds up elsewhere)???
Doesn’t seem to make much sense to me — just how “blown away” are you thinking?
By BravesFanInRockies
December 9, 2008 11:44 AM | Link to this
PopeVanIII,
Yeah, I could see something like that, esp. if the Royals need to dump Guillen’s salary.
The Braves may have to offer a RP/swing man (Campillo? Bennett?) or minor league pitching prospect (the Royals now need bullpen arms) to make the deal work. But yeah, Francoeur/arm for Greinke/Guillen might actually make sense — especially since Moore seems enamored of Frenchy.
By Bubdylan
December 9, 2008 11:44 AM | Link to this
Corey, building an argument on the 20-games-out is suspect. Lots of one-thing-leads-to-another stuff happened to build that deficit.
Wouldn’t it be better to compare teams player-by-player and see how they stack up after these presumed trades?
Also, you’ve framed your argument as if that team we started with in ‘08 is the one that finished 20 games out. Not so.
By Anders
December 9, 2008 11:47 AM | Link to this
Voice from the past
Very clever 11:32 post. True too.
By DAP
December 9, 2008 11:48 AM | Link to this
corey is going into spring with Burnett, Jurrjens, Vazquez, Reyes, Hanson any better than last year (when we finished 20 games out)?
yeah, it really would be, if we get innings out of those top three, that would be great. did you know that jurjens pitched the most innings on the braves staff last year? 188 innings from our rookie pitcher, who was supposed to be our #5 starter. this put a large amount of innings on our bullpen, which was also riddled with injury (soriano, moylan, gonzalez) and the overload eventually was way to much and these guys started losing games for us.
if we have those top three pitchers you mentioned, and they all give us 200 innings (which isnt unreasonable) our bullpen, which will have a healthy gonzalez, soriano, and moylan back will perform better and win us more games. which means, it wont be a wash, it will be a huge improvement.
By Trent
December 9, 2008 11:51 AM | Link to this
AR Brace: I’m glad you’re not our GM….come on dude…We don’t have a closer if we trade gonzo…you’re compounding a problem with another problem. Moylan and Soriano may or may not be healthy and when you already have a guy that is proven and is going to be 100% why give him up for 1 year or a Boras client.
By bill
December 9, 2008 11:51 AM | Link to this
Hey Corey, won’t it depend on who actually plays games during the season where we finish in the standings?
Seems some of the guys you mentioned as our starters last year didn’t actually start so many games.
So if your projected list of starters for 2009 miss the same number of starts then the answer is .. WGAS.
If those starters make 25-32 starts each then who knows what it will mean. I suspect that would mean a lot better than 18 games under .500.
Also you’re leaving Smoltz out of the equation and from the sound of it he is going to be healthier than he’s been for several years. Plus Hudson will be back for the end of the season, though I’d prefer not to expect anything from him until 2010.
If we have Burnett, Smoltz, JJ, Vasquez and the best of Hanson/Morton/JoJo/Campillo signed and healthy for 2008 then frankly the Braves will contend for the playoffs even if the offense is no better than 2008.
I still would like to see some kind of leadoff hitter included in our plans.
By Anders
December 9, 2008 11:53 AM | Link to this
AR Brave
Based on the content of your 11:39 post I most stunned that you used the word “plethora”. Somehow it just doesn’t fit the profile of the rest of that post.
By Ritchie from Scotland
December 9, 2008 11:55 AM | Link to this
Gonzo for Ankiel sounds like a bad idea to me. Surely we can get an outfielder without having to give up our close. Gonzo was priceless when he came back last year and he adds some passion and intensity to the team which I think is important. I would love for the Braves to get Greinke, I wonder how much it would take to get him. I wouldn’t include Frenchy though, that just creates another hole to fill and I think he’ll be his old self again in 09. A rotation of Burnett, Greinke, Jurrjens, Vazquez and Hanson/Morton/Campillo/Smoltz sounds really good to me. Bobby Cox said it himself, you need good pitching.
By flange1
December 9, 2008 11:59 AM | Link to this
Folks, we need to remember that it is rumor season and that just because it is printed does not mean it is true or that it will happen!
By Voice from the past
December 9, 2008 12:03 PM | Link to this
If you’re going to talk about Jeremy Hermida and his potential, why not talk about Delmon Young? He’s on the block in Minny…
By Anders
December 9, 2008 12:04 PM | Link to this
Jake W
And to Anders I appreciate your concern over the Braves but why don’t you tell me about the mets and what they are trying to do to get better instead of worrying so much about what the Braves are doing.
See my 10:39 post this morning. You did hear they made an offer to K-Rod? I’m thinking that will help.
By Mr J
December 9, 2008 12:09 PM | Link to this
If Francoeur was actually traded, that might explain the Braves interest in one year of Ankiel. Ankiel might be a stop-gap until the arrival of Heyward in 2010.
By Efrim
December 9, 2008 12:13 PM | Link to this
How does Kevin Towers keep his job if the return on this trade is: J.A. Happ, Sean Marshall, and Garret Olsen? That is three 4/5 starters….and that is if everything goes right. Wow, did he screw up or what?
By AR Brave
December 9, 2008 12:13 PM | Link to this
Trent You are completely correct that if we lose Gonzo we will not have a closer. Dont get me wrong I think Gonzo is a great closer for us. I also agree with the Boras hold up. I am just talking freely about ideas not saying my idea is better or “more right” than any others.
Anders Thanks for the kind words. Next thing you will say is where did guys from arkansas learn how to read. Ive heard them all.
By dack jerrick
December 9, 2008 12:16 PM | Link to this
Remember that the last Cardinals-Braves trade was a disaster for Atlanta. Braves gave up Adam Wainwright and Jason Marquis for a one-year rental of J.D. Drew. Black day for the Bravos. Surely Wren wouldn’t let the red birds snooker us a second time.
By Anders
December 9, 2008 12:18 PM | Link to this
Random
I never said Burnett is too timid to pitch in Atlanta, I said for the same money he’d would be happier to ride shot gun to CC closer to home etc..
If the Yanks don’t get CC do you really think they’ll take a chance on not getting Burnett? Why do you think Burnett is waiting? The Braves aren’t going to 6 years. The Yanks will give him 5 years guaranteed at the most $’s if they miss CC. Then they’ll turn to Lowe imo. Fall back plan on Lowe would be they pay more to Pettitte than they want to.
The teams left without dance partners will then have to see Mr. Boras about Oliver Perez. That’s why Boras is holding him back. He’d be better served after the aces have all been dealt.
By GermanBravesFan
December 9, 2008 12:20 PM | Link to this
Thanks, flange 1 for being the Voice of Reason here!
By safebet
December 9, 2008 12:23 PM | Link to this
just saw where Derosa might be avaible. at 5.5 mill. would be a great fit for any team. like to see the braves go after him. dont see why any team would want to help cubbies get Peavy. like shooting your self in the foot. mainly if your a contender.
By Braveheart
December 9, 2008 12:23 PM | Link to this
Braveheart, I guess I’ll have to slip on my latte-stained faded khakis and grab a white wine, then, if a set of stats is trying to convince me that KJ is (far) worse defensively than Jose Lopez and Dan Uggla. I think I’ll just go with my own anecdotal evidence that says, “bubba, that just ain’t right.”
Geez, what have you guys done with Scoots? Now he’s also an argyle sock wearing member of the KJ fan club. Is he wearing Ralph Lauren like the rest of ya?
These defensive metrics are obviously flawed and you have to look at and weigh about 5 different ones to get a general idea of how good a defender these guys are. UZR however seems to nail just how good other Braves are defensively.
It says that defensively Kotchman is second to only Albert at first over the last three seasons. That agrees with observation.
It says Yunel was the fourth best defender at short in the majors last season. Give or take a little, that generally agrees with observation.
It says that the last two seasons defensively, at third base, Chipper is just a notch below that elite Feliz, Beltre, Rolen, Lowell, Longoria, Zimmerman crowd. That agrees with observation as well.
It says Frenchy was below average defensively in 2008 and slightly above average in 2006 and 2007 (not taking his arm into consideration). That generally agrees with observation of Frenchy’s defense the last few years.
It says that in every single season from 2002 through 2007, Andruw Jones was the best or second best defender in center field in the majors. That agrees with observation
It says Edgar Renteria was dead average defensively at short in 2006 and 2007. That agrees with observation. It says Tex was the best last year defensively at first. That agrees with observation. It says Gregor Blanco is a good defensive leftfielder and a slightly below average defensive centerfielder. It says Langerhans is a great defensive corner outfielder and an average defensive centerfielder. It says Willie Harris is a great defensive corner outfielder and an above average defensive centerfielder. It says Marcus Giles was a slightly better than average defensive second baseman from 2002 through 2005, that Martin is a below average defensive infielder and that Josh Anderson is a slightly above average defensive centerfielder. That all agrees with observation.
This UZR stat ain’t perfect but does seem to agree with our general observations of most of our defenders. But we should disregard it altogether just because the picnic in the park having KJ crowd is inconvenienced by having the stat confirm the observation and belief of most Braves fans that KJ is a sorry second baseman defensively?
By Marty
December 9, 2008 12:30 PM | Link to this
Anders - Some of the “experts” apparently believe that Francisco Rodriguez is far from as dominant as his numbers last season suggest and that he has already lost a lot in terms of “stuff.” Here’s what Keith Law of Scouts, Inc. said about Rodriguez on ESPN.com last month:
Yes, that’s a purty number in the saves column, but it serves to obscure some troubling signs in K-Rod’s stuff and peripherals. He’s sitting 91-93 mph now with good life, but his once-devastating slider is far less sharp, and he pitches much more off his fastball than he did before, mixing in an average changeup more frequently than he did in the days when he earned the “K” in his nickname.
His strikeout rate has been falling with the quality of his pitches, and the average length of his outings has dropped, which might be a sign that he can’t be stretched out for two innings if need be; he didn’t record more than three outs in any game during the regular season. Among players likely to get contracts of four years or longer, K-Rod probably represents the greatest risk of a flameout.
Not having had much of an opportunity to watch him pitch, I don’t have much of an opinion. Just thought I’d pass that along, though.
By Efrim
December 9, 2008 12:30 PM | Link to this
I still haven’t seen Francoeur for Greinke shot down….
which would alarm me if I were a Royals fan.
By LKS
December 9, 2008 12:30 PM | Link to this
If the deal would be Greinke for Frenchie straight up?!?!? I would pack up frechies mansion, drive him to the airport, and cry watching the plane take-off……tears of JOY!!! I would even rent a U-Haul and drive his belongings to KC. He is a great guy with a great personality but…..we r paying him to be a great baseball player.
By GermanBravesFan
December 9, 2008 12:31 PM | Link to this
I am close to saying let the Padres have Hanson (but keep Escobar), then give Burnett his fifth year and trade for Ankiel. Let’s keep our fingers crossed Francoeur will produce and the Braves will be alright!
Would be nice to have Peavy/Burnett/Smoltz/Jurrjens/Vazquez
By Chuck James is solid until the 6th!! (Formerly Steve-O)
December 9, 2008 12:32 PM | Link to this
McFann
Sorry I havn’t been on since my last post lst nite…But yeh I cant even copy and paste and then re-paste on here so I dunno? But yeh watching AJ dominate on that clip was rediculous!! I can only imagine a healthy Smoltz and Burnett starting in the playoffs…WOW!
By StingerSplash
December 9, 2008 12:32 PM | Link to this
Several years ago, the great Thomas Boswell had a terrific magazine piece on Maddux that showed how he was on and off the field and the tremendous respect he earned - earned - from his teammates and foes.
Can’t remember if it was that story or another that talked about how all the other Braves copied Maddux’s every move in pre-game. If he stretched, they stretched. If he started running, they started running. All without a word having to be said.
By Marty
December 9, 2008 12:34 PM | Link to this
Braveheart, I’m not going to argue with you about KJ and UZR. Suffice it to say that there are many out there whose “general observations and belief” about KJ’s defensive capabilities disagree with yours.
By N8
December 9, 2008 12:34 PM | Link to this
Corey
“But, is going into spring with Burnett, Jurrjens, Vazquez, Reyes, Hanson any better than last year (when we finished 20 games out)?”
Of course it’s better. Just probably not good enough, considering that the Mets and Philles were 20 games ahead of us and they too are trying to improve their team’s weaknesses.
People, there are reports that the Mets are close to signing K-Rod.
Wagner and the rest of that Mets bullpen was their only true weakness last year. Adding K-rod alone to that team, has gotta be good for about 5-10 additional winns. Provided that everything else (rotation, lineup, defense and most importantly HEALTH), is the same as last year.
That being said, we assumed adding Glavine’s “innings” to the 2007 output of our team would put us over the hump too, but….
By Voice from the past
December 9, 2008 12:35 PM | Link to this
By GermanBravesFan December 9, 2008 12:20 PM | Link to this Thanks, flange 1 for being the Voice of Reason here!
I thought I was the Voice of Reason!?!
By Salty Dawg
December 9, 2008 12:37 PM | Link to this
DOB - If the Cubs get Peavy in this complex multi-team trade, I’d say we have a frontrunner in the early handicapping of next season’s NL pennant race. That potential Cubs starting rotation … wow.
On paper, sure. But it’s certainly not a lock. It seems like more often than not the team that goes the furthest is one that plays well together. Call it “geling” or whatever, but look at what the Rays did last year. By no means the best team on paper, but they played great together and everyone played a little above their abilities somehow. That is what makes a great team, in my opinion. You get so many marquee players on a team and sometimes things just don’t click because they don’t have synergy.
I heard a standup comedien a while back, think his name was Doug Stanhope. He was pretty offensive (and hilarious) for the most part. He was talking about baseball and Yankees fans. Basically his point was that it takes no heart to root for the team that is packed to the gills with the best players money can buy. Said that guys who pull for the Yankees probably go to Vegas and root for the House to win. I thought it was funny as hell.
By Thundersticks
December 9, 2008 12:37 PM | Link to this
Folks, we need to remember that it is rumor season and that just because it is printed does not mean it is true or that it will happen! flange1
I agree 100%, but will take it one step further. During these meetings, executives will discuss all sorts of scenarios, some are serious but most are just for kicks. (i.e. I’ll trade you a bag of balls for your former Cy Young winner.) I’m sure there is some basis of truth to the Franceour for Greinke rumor, but right now we don’t know how far that conversation went.
Until DOB confirms it, I won’t believe it.
By Dadgum
December 9, 2008 12:42 PM | Link to this
It is being reported by Jason Stark and others that the Braves are totally out of the Jake Peavy trade negotiations. Jake Peavy’s train may have left the station but it ain’t headed to Atlanta. Glad we can check him off the list so now we move on.
Time to sweeten the AJ Burnett offer by guaranteeing the 5th year and having him sign, oh, say, right about NOW. Sure it is risky but so is Peavy, Lowe, CC, and just about every other ace pitcher you can name. It really is as simple as sucking it up and pulling the trigger. With CC looking like a Dodger in ‘09, the Yankees are going to come after AJ hard. If the Braves show him some love, by guaranteeing the 5th year, he may well sign with Atlanta immediately.
Even money says that if Smoltz progresses as indicated he will pitch in the #2 slot in the rotation. My two cents.
Rock on……enjoy life and be thankful.
By N8
December 9, 2008 12:43 PM | Link to this
Does anybody know the status of Greinke’s contract? When is he a free agent?
Because if he’s “under control” (arbitration eligible) for a couple more years, I’d trade for him at his age, before shelling out 5 years to Burnett.
Even if Francoeur had to go.
For starters, I don’t think Jeff will turn it around. Tons of heart, great effort on his behalf. He just doesn’t have it in him (or the coaching staff doesn’t have it in them to DEMAND it - they proved that by ONLY leaving him in the minors for 2 days), to make the neccesary changes.
Secondly, Greinke would appear to be less risk for missing time due to injury.
Third with young Jordan, Gorkys and Heyward on the way up, Jeff’s days in a Braves uniform are numbered. Period. Why you ask? Because if he doesn’t step his game up BIG TIME, he will eventually be replaced by the youngsters. And even if he does step his game up big-time, by the time he’s up for a new contract, he’ll be too expensive for the Braves to want to keep…. with youngsters ready to take his spot.
No long-term future for Jeff in Atlanta (anymore). That went out the window when he declined the similar deal that McCann took.
Like it or not, Jeff is the stop-gap RF until the yound dudes are ready.
THAT is why I think this rumor is BS. Because Wren would be stupid not to jump at it PRONTO, and walk away from the Burnett negotiations.
Just my opinion.
By GermanBravesFan
December 9, 2008 12:45 PM | Link to this
Voice of the Past - no, you are not. You are what you are… a voice from the past…
By Lee in S GA
December 9, 2008 12:45 PM | Link to this
Are we sure we have the right pitchers’ name mentioned as in Greinke here; I am thinking more on the terms that the Royals meant trading Kyle Davies back to Atlanta for Francoeur? No way the Royals front office is that stupid to make that trade w/o other pieces coming along with Frenchy.
By Random
December 9, 2008 12:46 PM | Link to this
Anders: “I never said Burnett is too timid to pitch in Atlanta, I said for the same money he’d would be happier to ride shot gun to CC closer to home etc..”
Anders, you speculated (“we’ll see”) that “Burnett would be happier” not “having the #1 pressure in Atlanta.”
You put forth no basis for that speculation, and I referred to him not as “too timid” but as “too timid (or whatever)” — which should have covered whatever your reasoning was.
Whatever your reasoning was, how can Burnett’s alleged desire to avoid “#1 pressure” be a factor in his hypothetical choice of NYC (sans CC) over Atlanta?
By safebet
December 9, 2008 12:46 PM | Link to this
Im just in awe if Braves could pick up Grinke and guillen. for frenchy , Jojo , Ascosto or another pull the trigger. Kelly for Ankiel and a prospect go for it. then we wait on Burnett. not a big deal if we dont get him.
By TennesseePaul
December 9, 2008 12:47 PM | Link to this
Trade Gonzo for Ankiel? No. I’d approach Gonzo about a contract extension. There are way to many closers on the market now. Dealing one would be dealing at a time of least value, even if they are “good” closers. Sign him to a 2 or 3 year deal. Then if needs be you can trade him in a year or two when there are no closers on the market theoretically his value would be higher.
By Anders
December 9, 2008 12:48 PM | Link to this
Marty
I’ve seen most of what you posted at 12:30 and can’t argue against any of it as I haven’t seen much of the guy either. That’s why I’m glad the price is dropping along with the years. All we know is he broke the single season record for saves last year. What better guy to take a discounted flyer on? Plus at these prices I expect the Mets may get a decent back-up closer/8th inning guy.
Lastly, most people including myself thought the Phils were grasping at straws with Lidge last off season. Look how that worked out. So who knows - right?
By N8
December 9, 2008 12:49 PM | Link to this
GermanBravesFan
You’re crazy.
I’m going on record RIGHT NOW. Hanson will make more starts and have better numbers than Burnett this year, and will enter the 2010 season as the Ace of the staff.
Is that too much confidence in Hanson? Sure, but cut me some slack, I’m not that much of a homer, so I’m afforded a prediction now and then.
Besides, the Burnett/Hanson comparison has more to do with a lack of confidence in Burnett finishing the season with more than 20 starts, than it does with Hanson’s ability (which he hasn’t shown above AA ball).
As for the Ace of the staff remark? All the kid needs is time. He appears to be THAT good. Give him the experience and he’ll be the leader of that rotation, until he is elegible for free agency and the Braves choose not to re-sign him. LOL!
By Black Betty
December 9, 2008 12:52 PM | Link to this
Bam-ba-Lam, Whoa where’s my Ram Jam?
By TennesseePaul
December 9, 2008 12:54 PM | Link to this
Illinois Gov. Rod R. Blagojevich and his Chief of Staff, John Harris, were arrested today by FBI agents on federal corruption charges alleging that they and others are engaging in ongoing criminal activity: conspiring to obtain personal financial benefits for Blagojevich by leveraging his sole authority to appoint a United States Senator; threatening to withhold substantial state assistance to the Tribune Company in connection with the sale of Wrigley Field…
What a frickin mess.
By flange1
December 9, 2008 12:56 PM | Link to this
voice from the past,
You will always be Raisins to me!
By Mr J
December 9, 2008 12:57 PM | Link to this
Quick research on Greinke indicates that he was on the disabled list for psycological problems. Does anybody know the story on that?
By safebet
December 9, 2008 1:00 PM | Link to this
one more comment on potential trades, when we trade with teams like K.C. Pittsburgh Padres, etc. when the prospect becomes good F.A. we can get them back. let others get them seasoned. were building for playoffs. not tripple A. I also havent heard any commets on frenchy not taking the money while he could. ala B.MCcan. enjoy the blogs hope some of this info gets passed on or talked about. in the upper rooms you guys have some good ideas. some times thoughts just arent thought of just by three or four people.
By nolie
December 9, 2008 1:01 PM | Link to this
This is what I wrote at the beginning of my post:
As far as the Mike Gonzalez for Rick Ankiel rumor, that makes zero sense to me, and I am sure it does to the Braves too Efrim
Sorry, I didn’t make myself clear, I was really reacting more to calling Ankiel a proven run producer. I realized that you weren’t advocating that trade.I was just emphasizing that I wouldn’t give up any impact player for him right now, and I’m skeptical about Ludwick continuing in last years vein, & would not trade KJ or YE for him either.Like I said I am always interested in your take on young players, but just didn’t agree with that classification.
By Jake W.
December 9, 2008 1:04 PM | Link to this
So Anders that one signing fixes all that ails the Mets. Is there no more talk around Metville. By the way since you know so much about what the Braves are doing what do you think of the supposed trade of Peavy to the Cubs with the Phillies jumping in? Do you think the Pads are getting a better deal than the package the braves offered?
By Jimmy Piersall
December 9, 2008 1:06 PM | Link to this
Yeah, Greinke was in the looney bin with me. He is as crazy as a sh— house rat, but in good way. He kept asking about missing strawberries … not sure what that was about.
By MattyRoss
December 9, 2008 1:08 PM | Link to this
N8,
You might be right that the rumor is BS, but I honestly don’t think it makes much sense for the Royals or the Braves. It sounds like Moore wouldn’t want Francoeur unless he was getting rid of Guillen, and to me that’s not a good idea for the Braves. Dude made 12 million last year and hit 20 HR, Frenchy made 460k and hit 11. Maybe both guys do better next year (Francoeur can’t go anywhere but up, especially judging by his September performance) but I’d rather be betting 460k than 12m.
Unless we’re getting Guillen and Greinke and then adding ANOTHER bat, it doesn’t seem like it would work. Plus Jose’s a douche. Plus we’d probably lose a middle infielder, either forfeiting Kelly’s offense for Prado or losing Yunel and signing another SS. Not enough $$, and a massive headache in dealing with Guillen. Maybe I’m too naive, but I feel like there is a Braves type player, and that he’s not it. No thank you. I’d LOVE Greinke, but not with that little caveat.
By Staggerlee
December 9, 2008 1:09 PM | Link to this
I’m sick of reading about or seeing Peavy’s name on every baseball web site I go to! The idiot wants to be a Cub. Well good! Get the crap done! If it doesn’t happen then he can play for what will most likely be the worst team in baseball. He deserves it. He decided he wouldn’t play for Atlanta because the Braves aren’t close enough to contenders. I guess the jerk thinks the Poopdres are gonna tear it up! What a puke. Go away Jake! You disgust me!
By nolie
December 9, 2008 1:10 PM | Link to this
if a set of stats is trying to convince me that KJ is (far) worse defensively than Jose Lopez and Dan Uggla. I think I’ll just go with my own anecdotal evidence that says, “bubba, that just ain’t right.” scoots
yeah, what I said too more or less. Defensive stats are still pretty subjective and of far less reliability than hitting and then pitching.
By Lew
December 9, 2008 1:10 PM | Link to this
Nathan-I tend to agree with you about Hanson and think giving him up would be Idiocy Personified. However, I’ll bet you one of my drawings to that CD you already promised me (subtle hint?) that Frenchy has a comeback season this year. He will bring his average back to .275 or above and knock in his 100+ again. Dude’s highly motivated. Bank on it. I’m willing to do so.
By Lew
December 9, 2008 1:12 PM | Link to this
MrJ-Yeah-he kept thinking he was Sandy Koufax in Bob Wickman’s body.
By ecpglp
December 9, 2008 1:12 PM | Link to this
N8 - Greinke won’t be FA eligible until after the 2010 season, so yes, he’s “under control” for a couple of years yet.
But this scenario is ludicrous. KC wants three major leaguers and two top prospects for Greinke alone, according to Jayson Stark’s column yesterday. That’s quite a haul for any team and would cause every GM to hesitate. Moore obviously is not very interested in trading him.
By ncscoots
December 9, 2008 1:13 PM | Link to this
Marty, it’s OK…Braveheart knows I don’t much give a hang that someone (shoot, or many someones, for that matter) disagrees with me, LOL. I just assume they are lacking critical information needed to form the right opinion (that is, MY opinion). :-)
BH, I’m more of a clocks-on-my-socks guy, rather than argyles. Though I have some of those, too! The clocks look a little better with my khakis and Cole-Haans, LOL. And, DAMN, I look good in ‘em.
By N8
December 9, 2008 1:13 PM | Link to this
On the flipside of thinking that the Greinke/Francoeur banter is BS and could pick up steam.
Is the fact that Moore (Royals GM) knows plenty about the guys in the Braves system and would know exactly what he was getting into if there were other prospects included on our behalf (which would almost have to be done - NO WAY that deal happens straight up Francoeur for Greinke.. NO WAY).
So this could be one of those deals that just builds and builds a week or so after the meetings, of couruse it could just be BS too. :-)
By safebet
December 9, 2008 1:13 PM | Link to this
when it comes to prospects, see who the marlins are after and go from there.
By Efrim
December 9, 2008 1:16 PM | Link to this
nolie
I don’t think Ankiel is a proven bat. I’m not sure Ludwick is either. But they need some type of run producing bat, and if they aren’t trading top prospects or don’t like most FA OF’s, than I’m not sure how they get that bat.
By cmac1919
December 9, 2008 1:16 PM | Link to this
Okay, say we do trade Francouer for Grienke (which I really hope doesn’t because wouldn’t that opening up another hole in the outfield? And I really am sold on the idea that Francouer’s going to have a great season next year)
Anyway, if FW does trade for Grienke, would he still be pushing hard for Burnett? Or would we go into next season with Grienke as our “ace”
By Braveheart
December 9, 2008 1:16 PM | Link to this
Braveheart, I’m not going to argue with you about KJ and UZR. Suffice it to say that there are many out there whose “general observations and belief” about KJ’s defensive capabilities disagree with yours
Marty, there are also many who still insist Derek Jeter isn’t the sorry defensive shortstop he is …… although years and years of observation and stats tell you Jeter is really woeful defensively. KJ’s + bat and + baserunning make him enough of a valuable asset that his inferior defense is tolerable.
By Robert(Chipper Is The Best)
December 9, 2008 1:17 PM | Link to this
How about Frenchy and Jo Jo Reyes for Greinke? The Braves can then make a serious run at either Abreu or even Dunn.
By Thundersticks
December 9, 2008 1:18 PM | Link to this
The Dodgers have made re-signing Furcal their top priority, says Tom Verducci.
If we’re going to trade Escobar and Furcal is our replacement SS, we better get moving!!
By JR
December 9, 2008 1:20 PM | Link to this
It kind of seems like the Greinke rumor was fabricated by someone at the meetings who has an agenda. Not sure what the agenda is but oh well. I hear the Cardinals are also shopping Duncan. He has way more upside but is damaged goods. What do y’all think about him? Isn’t this fun Braves fans we are players in the market. Hopefully we won’t come up empty handed or even worse get a bunch of bums
By Original Jon
December 9, 2008 1:20 PM | Link to this
You know what I just thought was funny? I read on a Mets Blog that the Braves were in every trade rumor out there, lol. Its nice to finally be the ones with our foots in the door and not on the outside looking in. you know?
By The Rev. Jim Jones
December 9, 2008 1:21 PM | Link to this
Have you people been drinking my kool-aid? KJ is one of the worst 2nd basemen in the league. In this case stats don’t tell the true picture. He loses games single-handedly. Yes he can hit, but in streaks, and end the end, he is a .280 hitter with above average speed. But not the kind of speed that threatens the opposing battery. Overall, he’s just average. Stop recreating history. He’s not a superstar. Sorry children, now drink up.
By Anders
December 9, 2008 1:23 PM | Link to this
Jake W
I never said one signing fixed the Mets ails. I think if they get K-Rod it’s a huge start. They have more money to spend.
As for the Peavy deal, I’ve been on record on this blog that it wasn’t the slam dunk many on here thought it was. I even questioned a while back wether Peavy really wanted to go to the Braves. I got slaughtered for that. If it turns out he didn’t, then I think that will officially close the door on the magical lure of Bobby Cox and the Braves organization. I mean, even Hampton bolted for less money and gave that lame kid excuse again.
I haven’t heard that the Phils are on Peavy’s list so not sure how true that is.
Wren’s in a tough spot. He needs an ace bad, everyone knows it and he’s up against the big boys to sign one. He’s either got to overpay with money or prospects. He appears to be leaning towards the former. I’m not sure why he closed the Peavy door even for appearance sake? Doesn’t make sense to me. If Burnett thought the Braves might pull the trigger on the Peavy deal tonight wouldn’t he be more inclined to sign a deal now? Instead he controls the timing. I guess we’ll find out in time.
By My Entire Team Sucks
December 9, 2008 1:24 PM | Link to this
i will never believe anything from the mets blog about the braves - they claim braves are in seious discussions for Dye. i would like to believe that though..
By Lee in S GA
December 9, 2008 1:24 PM | Link to this
By reading and searching the internet a lot of Greinke psychological problems seem to relate to his being painfully selfconscious and excessively shyness in psychological terms. If he comes to Atlanta he may need to stay away from reading this blog.
By Jim
December 9, 2008 1:25 PM | Link to this
I hope that Escobar stays with the Braves. He has a chance to be a really good player. A trade involving Escobar could be one that Braves fans regret for a long time.
By Joe M.
December 9, 2008 1:29 PM | Link to this
@1:16: OMG! You really wouldn’t want to do that trade (Francoeur for Greinke)? Seriously?! Just wow. Francoeur is going to have NO value after he stinks it up in 2009 and Grienke is an ace. The people who wouldn’t do this trade are the Royals, not the Braves.
MetsBlog:
According to WFAN’s Sweeny Murti, the Braves are in serious discussions with the White Sox about bringing Jermaine Dye back to Atlanta, where he began his career 12 years ago.
By Bartman
December 9, 2008 1:30 PM | Link to this
Truth to the Rumor??? To David O’
Is it true that the Cubs like the package that the Braves were offering the Padres for Peavy? They have said they would need to trim payroll to get Peavy and….they don’t really “need” him…so they would, in turn, trade him to Atlanta for Escobar and the prospects offered to San Diego? So if Atlanta signs Burnett, they will NOT make the trade but if Burnett signs elsewhere, they will make that trade and move him on to Atlanta… Seems to work for me… Any chance you can check that out?
I hope we don’t trade for Ankiel without a contract extension being worked out. We don’t need another Texiera trade.
By Staggerlee
December 9, 2008 1:30 PM | Link to this
Moore isn’t going to trade Zack unless he gets a godfather offer. Nobody wants Francouer except our 3a team. Atlanta really needs 2 good outfielders, not just one. Bobby Cox would sing the praises of any player he wants to move. It’s a cover.
By Bobby's Cox
December 9, 2008 1:30 PM | Link to this
If the Cubs get Peavy in this complex multi-team trade, I’d say we have a frontrunner in the early handicapping of next season’s NL pennant race.
That’s exactly why I don’t agree with the reports, if the report is the same from what i saw yesterday. The report yesterday was that Philly would be the 3rd team that could give the Pads the prospects.
Why would the reigning WS Champs give the edge to another team to take the pennant? Who would Philly possibly get in return from either club to bolster their team, or bolster their farm system when it’s they that are giving up the prospects? Just seems hard to think that it will be Philly of all teams that would help to bolster the Cubs already formidable rotation.
Again, unless another team stepped in, I have a hard time believing that a deal will go down with Philly in the equation.
By safebet
December 9, 2008 1:32 PM | Link to this
something is going on. havent heard from DOB lateky.
By DAP
December 9, 2008 1:32 PM | Link to this
cmac1919 say we do trade Francouer for Grienke (which I really hope doesn’t because wouldn’t that opening up another hole in the outfield?
no, the hole is there weather francouer stays or not. francouer is a hole, as of now. i hope he rebounds too, but going forward, i dont think we can assume we are a better team with him than without him.
im rooting for jeff big-time, but trading him right now would be understandable, if someone wants him.
By the Stranger
December 9, 2008 1:34 PM | Link to this
I think KJ is a sorry second baseman defensively. I think I know that for sure. But I’m also wearing khaki pants (sans loafers), and my latte is regrettably empty. What’s the difference between khakis or carhartts if a dude can’t catch a popup behind second base?
By McFann O –[zzz]
December 9, 2008 1:34 PM | Link to this
Anders I’d be happy to have Snell serve up some dingers to your boy
That would make me happy, too! Maybe the Mets should get Bergmann to go with him. That’d be a sweet rotation!
; )
Burrell has 29 homers against the Mets?? Hmm……Maybe he’d crush ‘em against his former team, too…
Steve-O Sorry I havn’t been on since my last post lst nite
That’s OK! I cann copy and paste, but the post just won’t show up. I’m gonna try it again sometime. Maybe my browser’s just down or something…
Ah, man…a healthy Smoltz and Burnett? Dang! That’d be something else!
By flange1
December 9, 2008 1:35 PM | Link to this
Interesting day so far!
Anders, would the Mets trade Heilman and Feliciano for 1 year of Ankiel?
I would think that is too much to give up…
Is there any K Wood talk in NY? a worse case scenario for me is that the Mets get Wood and K-Rod….
By David O'Brien
December 9, 2008 1:37 PM | Link to this
Dave It would be hard to do, but I would entertain trading Gonzo. The closer market seems to be a buyers market this yearWayne in Utah
Well, the Braves don’t view it as you do. Gonzo’s their closer for 2009. They’re not looking to open up yet another major void.
He’s not going to be traded for Ankiel. Cards aren’t expecting that big a return on Ankiel, either. If they are, I think they’ll realize quickly they’ll have to settle for less.
By Dim Bulb Braves Fan
December 9, 2008 1:38 PM | Link to this
Ryan Freel is available? Hansen and Escobar ought to be enough and if not, we could throw in Locke.
Gotta keep the Reds from trading in to the O’s for Ramon Hernandez.
With Freel, the Braves should be favorites in the NL East.
By bill
December 9, 2008 1:39 PM | Link to this
Joe M, the White Sox management was caught on tape stating that they weren’t “going to give Dye away for nothing. He’s **ing golden.”
Look for Atlanta to withdraw from consideration to avoid being implicated in the affair.
By brent a.
December 9, 2008 1:39 PM | Link to this
I’d have to believe that if the deal was Greinke for F-coeur straight up, then the Braves would’ve done it yesterday.
As far as Gonzo for anything … I think that Gonzo is probably pretty widely undervalued in the mainstream media.
He was gone by Memorial Day in 2007, and was not really at full strength after his return in 2008.
This is hopefully the year that we get a nasty Gonzalez for a full 162.
If we are out of the race at the trade deadline, then trade him, but not now. With Gonzo, we have potentially the best closer in the NL, in a division that now has Lidge, and potentially K-Rod.
Just because the Cubs fan at MLB traderumors doesn’t recognize the potential of Gonzo, doesn’t mean that we should ignore just how nasty that guy is.
By ncscoots
December 9, 2008 1:42 PM | Link to this
Its nice to finally be the ones with our foots in the door and not on the outside looking in [on trades and FA signings]. you know?
Personally, I’d prefer an offseason in which the Braves are not connected with a single, solitary rumor, with the reason being that they had no holes to fill.
I’d much prefer to be spending the offseason in languor, lolling about with obscenely apparent lassitude in my Polo, khakis, and Topsiders. And having Kelly and his wife over mornings for mimosas, of course, LOL.
“UZR? Well, the masses must have SOMETHING to do, darling, mustn’t they?” :-)
By ernesto
December 9, 2008 1:43 PM | Link to this
Frenchy for Greinke?
I would do that in a ventricular fibrillation.
Royals can’t be that stupid though…
By David O'Brien
December 9, 2008 1:45 PM | Link to this
While Greinke-for-Francoeur straight up seems highly unlikely to me, if you add a component to that trade it suddenly seems quite possible.
Could be a top Braves prospect and Francoeur for Greinke, but more likely, to me, is the possibility of the Royals doing the deal to get a guy they want (Francoeur) while shedding some payroll via Jose Guillen.
Guillen makes $12 mill each of the next two years. . Royals would love to shed some salary, and Guillen hasn’t performed nearly up to his contract.
But even in a bad year last season (.264 with a .300 OBP) he still had 20 homers, 42 doubles and 97 RBI. And in 2007 he hit .290 with a .353 OBP, 23 homers and 99 RBI.
During the 2003-05 seasons he had 87 homers and 266 RBI, while hitting .311, .294 and .283 in those seasons, with OBPs of .359, .352 and .338 OBPs.
Dude can hit.
As for Greinke, well, his stuff is oustanding, and he has all the tools to be an ace or at least a very good No. 2 starter.
He had the psychological problems a few years ago, but supposedly has had no problems since treated for that. He really could be a hell of an addition, and he’s not eligible for free agency until after the 2010 season, so he’d probably be a Brave for at least two seasons.
By Efrim
December 9, 2008 1:47 PM | Link to this
I can’t imagine the Braves would trade for an OF like Dye before knowing if they can sign Burnett. That piece that they trade for Dye can be used in a deal for a pitcher if we miss out on Burnett.
By PopUp Obsessor
December 9, 2008 1:50 PM | Link to this
December 09, 2013
“I tell you, the Braves would have won the division this past season had Kelly Johnson not dropped that pop-up over five years ago in that early June regular season game. Cursed this team forever like the Cubs and their goat.”
By GEO123
December 9, 2008 1:52 PM | Link to this
JR,
Duncan is a huge question mark. He had radical neck surgery. He appears to be healing well but you never know… I really only think that he goes in a very minor trade or as an addiitonal piece in a trade. The Cardinals are definitely going to trade an OF this off season. The questions are who (or how many) and when. Most think that it now will be Ankiel and it will probably be in the next couple of days…
By McFann O –[zzz]
December 9, 2008 1:52 PM | Link to this
Flange—
Heilman? Ah, no! The Mets have to keep him, too! Yeah…make him a starter with Snell and Bergmann!
They cann ditch Feliciano, though.
By winterville
December 9, 2008 1:54 PM | Link to this
Anders Have the Braves ever done anything right in your opinion? It seems like you are just here to criticize every move they make. If they stay in on Peavy you would say they are just doing whatever Towers wants and you would mock us for waiting so long for an answer. So now, we pull out of that to move on to other options and you decide that means we have no leverage. You are so bitter. Baseball brings so much enjoyment to me and most of the others on this blog and I feel like you just want to take the fun out of it. I am not one of those blind loyalty fans who thinks everything we do will turn to gold but I have been very pleased with the efforts from the front office this off season. We put our best foot forward on Peavy and we knew when to cut our losses. We are trying our best to sign Burnett. We got Vazquez to be a stabilizer. We are in on many fronts to try and land a decent OF bat. What would you have us do differently so far this off season? You can just be such a drain on this blog and I really don’t think you understand how much fun you take away from actual baseball and the joy it brings us.
By Bobby's Cox
December 9, 2008 1:59 PM | Link to this
Royals can’t be that stupid though
This is the few times i’ve read this.
I think it would be smart by the Royals.
For no other reason that if fans think it’s a dumb trade, maybe they won’t go through with it.
Getting Francouer would be a steal.
wink.
By Graham
December 9, 2008 2:00 PM | Link to this
ESPN and Fox Sports are both reporting that the Cubs are not even “remotely close” on a deal for Jake Peavy.
By a fan
December 9, 2008 2:03 PM | Link to this
Rosenthal is reporting that the Cards did ask for Gonzo in exchange for Ankiel. Braves turned it down immediately.
By Jake W.
December 9, 2008 2:04 PM | Link to this
Thats what i’m asking Anders. I haven’t heard to much about the Mets this offseason besides the K-Rod talk so I was hoping you as a mets fan could provide some knowledge on what all they’re doing.
And on the Peavy thing I didn’t ask you about whether braves fan thought it was a sure thing or not. I asked you to evaluate whether the proposed package they would be getting in a proposed three way trade with the Cubs and Phillies would be better than the package the Braves offered. The Braves didn’t give up on Peavy because they didn’t like him. They got tired of Towers changing his mind and had other needs to fill so they walked away as they didn’t have the time to wait around on Towers who believed that he could still demand Hanson who he was clearly not going to get.
By Erik
December 9, 2008 2:05 PM | Link to this
So DOB to clarify are you saying that a deal might be Frenchy and prospect for Guillen and Greinke?
Under those circumstances we have all of our voids filled and be well under our salary limit. Would you see the braves still pursuing Ankiel(cheap CF) for a Boyer, Stockman exchange?
That seems to be a dramatically upgraded pitching staff
Greinke, Smoltz, JJ, Vazquez, Campillo/Morton
and and EVEN BETTER outfield
Schaffer/Blanco/Diaz in left
Ankiel in Center (25 HR)
Guillen in right(20 HR)
assuming same production as last year that gives 45 homers between Center and right, almost double from the entire production of last year.
Plus the longest deals we would be on the book for are two years. Almost all of those players will net us draft compensation if they leave, allowing us to replenish the farm.
what do you think DOB?
By flange1
December 9, 2008 2:05 PM | Link to this
The Greinke- Gullien for Frenchy + prospect makes too much sense!
It seems to me that the Royals have accmlulated tons of corner OF and IF, the Braves prospect would need to be either Hernandez or an IF or a pitcher.
Just thinking it through, which prospect?
Maybe Morton and Frenchy for Greinke and Guillen?
I would rather JoJo, Boyer and Frenchy for Greinke and Guillen.
Then let Matt Diaz and B Jones platoon in the other OF slot.
Still have some $$$ to spend, do you still try to get AJ?
A rotation of AJ, Greinke, JJJ, Javy and Hanson….Wow that stinks…
By Viva La Frenchy and others...
December 9, 2008 2:07 PM | Link to this
Frenchy and a prospect for Greinke sounds graet to me. I know the dude can hit, has some emotional issues—but the $12 mil a year…does that put is in a hole on getting AJ as well? It would be pretty sweet to get AJ and Greinke cause at least with the Greinke deal (if it happens) we get an OF too. Still like a RP for Ankiel. I know he’s a one year Boras guy, but the guys got some heart, class and can hit too. Get somethjing for Frenchy now while we can. lastly, let’s definitely add a leadoff type guy - albeit Rf may be too pricy, but who knows, ….P I - - on Peavy - he had his chance, way to go FW for sticking to your guns.
By Efrim
December 9, 2008 2:10 PM | Link to this
I’m not too big a fan of Jose Guillen, but to get Greinke, and only give up Francoeur and say, Gorkys Hernandez, I’d think about it.
By Marty
December 9, 2008 2:12 PM | Link to this
I agree that Guillen might be a nice pickup, as long as he can keep his attitude in check. Both he and Greinke seem to be somewhat “damaged goods,” at least from what I’ve read over the years. That said, there’s some major talent there.
By KC
December 9, 2008 2:13 PM | Link to this
MLBtraderumors.com:
1:00pm: Joe McDonald of The Providence Journal says the Red Sox had “significant dialogue” with Burnett and he appears to be Boston’s main free agent pitching target.
By Marty
December 9, 2008 2:14 PM | Link to this
Here’s a question for anyone who wants to field it. The Cubs supposedly are shopping Jason Marquis with a vengeance. My question: Why in the heck would anyone want to pick up Marquis?
By Efrim
December 9, 2008 2:20 PM | Link to this
DOB
Do you think Greinke is a back up plan to Burnett? Or are the Braves interested even if we sign Burnett.
By nolie
December 9, 2008 2:21 PM | Link to this
That’s OK! I cann copy and paste, but the post just won’t show up. I’m gonna try it again sometime. Maybe my browser’s just down or something McFann
I’ve been having the same problem today trying to copy/paste an article from Hardball Times about Vazquez. It just won’t show up. First time ever.
By rhays
December 9, 2008 2:21 PM | Link to this
it appears braves are essentially out of the race for burnett and peavy. why not take 150 mil. over 5 yr. and throw it at sabathia and see what happens. dont need to come home this winter empty handed.
By rhays
December 9, 2008 2:21 PM | Link to this
it appears braves are essentially out of the race for burnett and peavy. why not take 150 mil. over 5 yr. and throw it at sabathia and see what happens. dont need to come home this winter empty handed.
By David O'Brien
December 9, 2008 2:23 PM | Link to this
Flange1, I’m not saying it would take Frenchy AND a top prospect if Guillen’s involved. With Guillen involved, Braves would be taking on a big salary Royals need to shed for K.C. to make other moves.
I don’t know that Braves would have to give up anything more than Francoeur and perhaps a mid-level prospect to get that deal done.
I know Royals will ask for plenty more, though, including probably Escobar and a top prospect. But I don’t think Braves would open up another hole (SS) that would require a big salary to fill along with taking on Guillen’s $12 mill salary. Then you’re starting to look at burning up most of your available funds with Vazquez and his $11.5 mill already added, Burnett offer out there, and Smoltz, etc. If they got Greinke, don’t know if they could also afford A.J., but who knows?
They’d be doing Royals a favor, in effect, taking on a salary Royals can’t afford (Guillen), but that Braves might be able to carry considering they’d be getting a very talented starting pitcher with great stuff who’s two years from free agency.
When I said Francoeur and a top prospect, I was talking about if it was just for Greinke. I said I thought no way Royals give up Greinke for Francoeur alone, that they’d have to get a prospect along with Frenchy.
But that changes, I think, if Guillen and his big salary are involved. At least from Braves’ view, I think it would. It’d be a salary dump by the Royals, but the dump (Guillen) would be a player who’d be quite an upgrade for a Braves outfield that got a hideous total of 27 homers from all its outfielders combined last season, starters and backups.
By Chop Chop
December 9, 2008 2:25 PM | Link to this
ESPN.com news services:
Ron Santo, who fell nine votes short of election by the Veterans Committee to the Baseball Hall of Fame, said the process needs to change after the committee failed to elect a new member for the fourth straight time.
Imaginary quote:
Santo: “What the hell’s going on? Blagojevich said he had this thing wrapped up! They gotta change the system!”
By U-BE-BAD
December 9, 2008 2:25 PM | Link to this
I JUST HOPE THE BRAVES CAN GET AJ,AND ADD A GOOD BAT. THATS WHAT I WONT FOR X-MAS
By BravesFanInRockies
December 9, 2008 2:26 PM | Link to this
Looks like the Indians are about to sign Kerry Wood.
As for K-Rod, I saw him pitch fairly often (not in person, on TV, of course). And he has done it with mirrors, to some extent, the past year or so. Because his fastball doesn’t reach the upper 90s any more, his change doesn’t offer as much of a contrast. And his slider is all over the place; it’s not the out pitch it used to be.
Hitters seem to not be as distracted by that exaggerated pitching motion. So yeah, you can’t use him for more than an inning because after you’ve seen his entire repertoire you can figure him out.
He might be lights-out in the NL the first time he faces hitters. Maybe even the second. But long-term? He’ll be a huge disappointment for Mets fans.
Not that there’s anything wrong with that.
By TommyP
December 9, 2008 2:33 PM | Link to this
Again, if Jose Guillen comes to Atlanta, it will be a clear indication that the Wren Era is going to be drastically different than the Schuerholz Era. And Cox will probably manage his last year.
I think a lot of people are not understanding what a medical marvel Gonzo was last year. NOBODY comes back that quickly from TJ surgery and is productive like that.
This year will be Gonzo’s bounce back season. HUGE season upcoming.
By rammerjammer
December 9, 2008 2:35 PM | Link to this
KC,
Thanks for the AJ update. Fascinating how these things play out. Could be that our best hope for a rotation upgrade is through the trade route.
Which begs the question…would KC be interested in a Peavy-esque package of prospects for Greinke?
I would think KC would see him as untouchable, but if he’s available we should be talking with them.
By My Entire Team Sucks
December 9, 2008 2:35 PM | Link to this
if such a trade happened - i would hope the braves went for power hitting LF over signing Burnett - Burnett is a huge risk and a trade for Greinke and Guillen would not solve the power in the outfield only upgrade it a little bit if at all. Greinke JJ vazquez smoltz glavin/morton/hansen is a good rotation.
By flange1
December 9, 2008 2:35 PM | Link to this
DOB,
WOW! Thanks for the response.
If we could trade Frenchy for Greinke and Guillen, I would do it in a heartbeat.
Like yesterday.
Heck, I would even throw in a prospect….
By DAP
December 9, 2008 2:36 PM | Link to this
haha, DOB…are you messing with us? a grenkie, guillen deal would be great…guillen ought to produce as well has frenchy has in his career, plus we get our top of the order pitcher.
the only bad thing (maybe) would be in two years, we will three pitchers going into free agency. (hudson, grenkie, vazquez) maybe more if smoltz will be doing 1 year deals from now on.
i know weve got young’uns coming up, but thats alot of guys to lose at once. its good to taper that kinda thing.
but, youve got to worry about right now, right now. let the dead bury their dead.
By Efrim
December 9, 2008 2:37 PM | Link to this
Steve Phillips from ESPN.com:
There’s nothing to a Jeff Francoeur-for-Zack Greinke swap between the Braves and Royals.
By Blue Magic
December 9, 2008 2:39 PM | Link to this
Dave
What’s the market for Griffey? Rather sign him for a 1-yr deal if he’d come to ATL than trade for Ankeil. We won’t resign either, so wouldn’t it make more sense to go that route? Or do you see him going back to Seattle?
By ABravesFan
December 9, 2008 2:42 PM | Link to this
Braves sign AJ Burnett for $15 M Braves trade for Grienke (cheap) and Guillen ($12 M) Braves trade for Ankiel (cheap)
OF: CF - Ankiel RF - Guillen/Schaefer/Diaz LF - Guillen/Schaefer/Diaz
Starting rotation: 1 - AJ Burnett 2.- Greinke 3. -JJ 4. - Vazquez 5. - Morton/Jo Jo/Hanson
Adding AJ for $15 M, Vazquez for $11.5 M, Guillen for $12 M, and Ankiel and Greinke for cheap would be a total salary increase of a little more than $40 million.
By ecpglp
December 9, 2008 2:42 PM | Link to this
DOB, that doesn’t sound right. Francoeur + a prospect would get Greinke, but Francoeur along would get Greinke AND Guillen??? That’s tantamount to saying that the Royals would GIVE Guillen to the Braves right now, forget Greinke and Francoeur. I realize KC might be looking to dump his salary, but I don’t think they are looking to get literally nothing for him.
By bobby
December 9, 2008 2:43 PM | Link to this
I DONT SEE MADDUX BEING RETIRED FOR LONG SOMEONE WILL BE KNOCKING AT HIS DOOR BEGGING HIM TO COME BACK FOR ANOTHER YEAR AND I SEE THE BRAVES DOING IT IF GLAVINE OR SMOLTZ GO DOWN. I WANT TO SEE ADAM DUNN IN A BRAVES UNIFORM AND NOONE ELSE UNLESS ITS WELL NO I WANNA SEE ADAM DUNN IN A BRAVES UNIFORM.
By David O'Brien
December 9, 2008 2:43 PM | Link to this
Yes, I know Royals will be asking for a lot more than Francoeur alone for those two, just don’t know that Braves will give it.
Maybe Francoeur and a prospect or two, but can’t see them giving up Escobar, too, and opening up another hole that’ll probably require a big salary to fill (shortstop) while also taking on Guillen’s $12 mill salary.
By McFann O –[zzz]
December 9, 2008 2:43 PM | Link to this
Nolie—
Really? Huh…this is weird. Everyone else cann do links.
Very strange…First time ever for me, too. I used to just not know how to link. Then I figured it out—and loved it—but now…
What browser do you use? FireFox, Safari, Internet Explorer? ‘Cause I’ve tried Safari and FireFox, and neither work anymore. (I don’t care for FireFox, anyway.)
By bobby
December 9, 2008 2:43 PM | Link to this
I DONT SEE MADDUX BEING RETIRED FOR LONG SOMEONE WILL BE KNOCKING AT HIS DOOR BEGGING HIM TO COME BACK FOR ANOTHER YEAR AND I SEE THE BRAVES DOING IT IF GLAVINE OR SMOLTZ GO DOWN. I WANT TO SEE ADAM DUNN IN A BRAVES UNIFORM AND NOONE ELSE UNLESS ITS WELL NO I WANNA SEE ADAM DUNN IN A BRAVES UNIFORM.
By MiamiBrave
December 9, 2008 2:45 PM | Link to this
Most of you will see this soon on mlbtr.com but…
Roman Modrowski of the Chicago Sun-Times says Peavy sang “Go Cubs, Go” at a Vegas bar last night. Good times.
Peavy can go to Chicago, I personally don’t want the dude anymore, and I know his talent, but that’s why the dude was never coming to Atlanta, he never wanted to, might as well shove that list…(you get the picture)
If he doesn’t want to pitch here that’s fine (I say here, and I live in Miami, but you get my drift)Hope Peavy gets that ring in Chicago, where they haven’t won in over 100 years, sounds good…
Full speed ahead on the Burnett/Greinke front where it will either cost draft picks or Francoeur for the other, All for that Guillen/Greinke, though I do like Frenchy…
Hoping for good stuff this week. Good Luck FW.
By BravesFanInOR
December 9, 2008 2:46 PM | Link to this
DOB:
Tim Dierkes of MLBTradeRumors.com included the following comment at the end of his post on the Royals/Francoeur stuff:
“I’d be surprised to see this happen without the Braves adding significant pitching to their offer for Greinke. But in general I am skeptical that anything like this is close, even given the Burnett contingency. We probably would’ve heard some rumbling from Dave O’Brien, Mark Bowman, Bob Dutton, or Dick Kaegel.”
Then a certain “Braves Insider,” posted this when the Dierkes post was reposted as a thread on his forum:
“What the hell do I have to do? Hit some of you in the head? How long have we talked about Greinke on the talk show, in the chat, and I even wrote an article about it. I don’t know what else I could have done to let you know about this.
But go ahead and wait for Dave O’Brien to tell you. Maybe he’ll have the scoop.”
I won’t mention the name of the “Braves Insider” or the name of the forum.
But it appears he has it out for you…maybe a little blog/forum, penis envy.
By Efrim
December 9, 2008 2:47 PM | Link to this
Mark Bowman has a new article up:
The Braves remain hopeful that they could eventually win the bidding for A.J. Burnett. But they certainly aren’t encouraged by reports that have indicated the Dodgers are making a serious push to land CC Sabathia, who is believed to share a mutual interest.
Whether or not they signed Sabathia, the Yankees were going to make a push to also sign Burnett. If they lose out in the bidding for Sabathia, they would obviously have an even greater abundance of available funds that could be used to provide Burnett with an offer that the Braves wouldn’t be willing to match.
Currently the Braves are sitting back and evaluating the developments surrounding Burnett. Braves GM Frank Wren is expected to meet with Burnett’s agent, Darek Braunecker, later this week. But there hasn’t been any indication that the two parties will meet on Tuesday.
As for the Yankees, they are expected to meet with the Braunecker on Tuesday.
I really do wonder where the Braves would go if Burnett didn’t sign with them. I’m sure they have it figured out though.
By Mark
December 9, 2008 2:52 PM | Link to this
DOB,
Anymore meetings with Wren today/tonight? When can we expect some updates on potential trades and signings?
By A FAN
December 9, 2008 2:52 PM | Link to this
why wont frank just go talk to towers already. our deal is and has always been the best option lets get it done. burnett might have “ace” stuff but his best year being last year he was second fiddle to doc holliday!!! plus look at the injury factor. guy misses time alot and it would be a bigger commitment . if peavy is hurt or bad ( dont see that happening) were out after 3 years. if burnett is injured which he has a history most likely we have another hampton for 5 years. if escobar is gone lets get an ace not a good outfielder an ACE. and please dont trade frenchy yet. it would kill us to see him bounce back and hit .280 and 30 bombs. we cant trade one good year for one bad one with geinke
By MGL
December 9, 2008 2:53 PM | Link to this
Bobby, There is a “CapsLock” on the left side of your keyboard. Press once before you type and your post won’t come out in that terribly annoying all caps format.
By jimmy
December 9, 2008 2:55 PM | Link to this
dob, it seems like the Braves are slipping out of contention for Burnett with the Red Sox and Yankees after him. What will Frank Wren have to say to the fans if Vasquez is the opening day starter?
By Thundersticks
December 9, 2008 2:58 PM | Link to this
I’d go ahead and put a call in to Sheets’ agent.
By Lew
December 9, 2008 3:00 PM | Link to this
Bobby-Screaming it and posting it twice does not indicate you actually have a clue.
By BravesFanInRockies
December 9, 2008 3:00 PM | Link to this
Ryan Freel for Ramon Hernandez? Say it ain’t so, denizens! With Freel off the market, what will we argue about?
By Calvin
December 9, 2008 3:02 PM | Link to this
Bobby,
Your capslock is on.
By brian
December 9, 2008 3:02 PM | Link to this
what kind of prospects are the Royals expecting to get for Guillen/Greinke?
Along with Francoeur if it is Brandon Jones and JoJo or Parr then that is fine. If it is one of the big 2 then NO WAY
By Mark
December 9, 2008 3:03 PM | Link to this
2:56 p.m. — Burnett’s agents, Braves to meet The agents for free-agent right-hander A.J. Burnett will meet again with the Braves on Tuesday.
Burnett’s representatives met with the Yankees, Red Sox and Orioles on Monday, and the Braves have made him an offer believed to be $60 million over four years with an option for a fifth.
The Yankees are in active discussions with free agents CC Sabathia and Ben Sheets as well as Burnett, and remain willing to sign both Sabathia and Burnett, sources say.
Sheets, who also met with the Rangers on Monday, would be a more realistic alternative if the Yankees struck out on one of the elite starters.
By Lew
December 9, 2008 3:05 PM | Link to this
A Fan-If we were to sign Peavy, he would be locked in for four years. If, as is expected, he were to ask for a guarantee of his fifth year, he would be locked up (injuries and all) for the same five years Burnett would.
By flange1
December 9, 2008 3:05 PM | Link to this
I think the Peavy to ATL deal is done.
Toast.
Not happening.
Jake wants to go to Chitown. Wish him luck!
Time for the Braves to move on.
I like the Greinke thoughts as much or more than any other starter not named Halliday.
It would not bother me to trade Frenchy + talent for Guillen and Greinke.
I would like to keep Morton and the big prospects, but I could see Frenchy, G. Hernandez, Boyer, Medlin/Marek/Redmond. I could live with that.
By 22oz
December 9, 2008 3:05 PM | Link to this
There’s nothing quite as entertaining as using Caps Lock and then spelling a very basic word wrong. Its right there with the Caps Lock ridiculously long run-on sentence.
By Lew
December 9, 2008 3:07 PM | Link to this
Jimmy-“That’s the best we could do with the current market availability”?
By Jim H.
December 9, 2008 3:09 PM | Link to this
The funny thing is he didn’t capitalize the first letter of his own name.
By My Entire Team Sucks
December 9, 2008 3:09 PM | Link to this
DOB
are you just talking about a “Rumor” when you are talking about what it might take or did you actualy hear that the braves are in talks with the royals?
By flange1
December 9, 2008 3:11 PM | Link to this
From Tom Krasovic of the San Diego Union-Tribune in his December 9,2008 Day 2 blog
“The Braves let a neutral source know that, in retrospect, they are happy the Padres didn’t agree to one of their offers for Peavy. Maybe that’s spin, but according to Atlanta, they would have given up too much pitching as part of that offer. The thing to bear in mind, though, is that Peavy’s consent is needed for a trade to Atlanta. We’ve reported that for some five weeks, it hasn’t appeared Peavy was enthused about going to the Braves.”
VERY INTERESTING!!!
By Braveheart
December 9, 2008 3:11 PM | Link to this
it seems like the Braves are slipping out of contention for Burnett with the Red Sox and Yankees after him
Did you think no one else would want him? Did you think that he would not want to hear from others? Did you just marry the first girl who said hello to you? Did you really think he wouldn’t wait to see what goes down with CC? Do you really think the Red Sox are interested? Or do you believe that the Red Sox are just doing all the teasing they can to make the Yankees give too much money?
By Nocturnal Owl
December 9, 2008 3:13 PM | Link to this
Roman Modrowski of the Chicago Sun-Times says Peavy sang “Go Cubs, Go” at a Vegas bar last night. Good times
VORP PEAVY, HIS CLOWN AGENT, AND TOWERS.
Peavy played with US for almost two months. He never wanted to be here. I love to Boo him.
Yunel for an OF?
By DAP
December 9, 2008 3:18 PM | Link to this
I think the Peavy to ATL deal is done.Toast.Not happening.Time for the Braves to move on.
the braves HAVE moved on. they moved on a month ago. its us who needs to move on, if its not gonna happen.
By Dim Bulb Braves Fan
December 9, 2008 3:20 PM | Link to this
BFIR That’s what I’m sayin’. Perhaps the O’s will flip Freel as part of a Peavy three way deal. The Braves could get Freel and give up Esco, Hanson and Jurrjens. If we could just get Freel and then go hard after Baldelli and Crawford, I could sleep at night.
By Ed Glennon
December 9, 2008 3:20 PM | Link to this
Rule #1 Never trade for a Scott Boras client. Rule #2 Keep young pitchers, bring them up and let them pitch Remember Smoltz, Glavine and Avery. Rule #3 Give young talent extensions: Escobar Rule #4 Trade unhappy people Francour
By Marty
December 9, 2008 3:23 PM | Link to this
2:56 p.m. — Burnett’s agents, Braves to meet
The agents for free-agent right-hander A.J. Burnett will meet again with the Braves on Tuesday.
-Ken Rosenthal
Hopefully, that’s to finalize contract details.
By Bobby's Cox
December 9, 2008 3:23 PM | Link to this
the royals were pretty happy with what mike aviles provided them last year, so i doubt they’d want escobar.
maybe they’d want johnson for 2nd base as they seemingly have a hole there.
on their mlb.com website, they say the royals main need this offseason is relief pitching.
so maybe the deal could be bennett or boyer + johnson + francouer, for greinke and guillen.
the braves could replace one of those pieces or just add in a starter like jojo or morton, however, that trade w/o the starters would free up cash for KC to sign a garland or perez, etc…
the braves could even add soriano in the deal. KC could afford him with Guillen off the books and still have salary space to sign a garland or perez.
anyhow….it seems like there’s a lot to work with in a KC deal.
By Bluestreak
December 9, 2008 3:26 PM | Link to this
Peavy appears to be a jerk redneck from Alabama in all this. And I hope the Cubs have a huge payroll and still choke out of the first round.
I hope today’s meeting with Burnett is to blow him out of the water and lock the door until he signs on the dotted line.
I’d love to see a 3 or 4 for 2 swap with KC to get Guillen and Greinke, as long as Frenchy was the only ML player and the best minor leaguer would be either Morton or Reyes.
Burnett Greinke JJ JV and Smoltzie (as a 5th, my gosh)…that is a killer rotation. And all our prospects get to hone their craft in the minors and get here when the seasoning is done.
And then 2010: Burnett Greinke Hudson JJ JV. WOW. No cakewalks here…
DOB, if the Bravos sign AJ or trade for Greinke, do you see them doing the other? Or if they do one, does that end the pursuit of the other?
By Bobby's Cox
December 9, 2008 3:27 PM | Link to this
Props to whoever started using VORP as to substitute the profane version of the french adjective
that was VORPing brilliant.
By Bluestreak
December 9, 2008 3:28 PM | Link to this
the braves HAVE moved on. they moved on a month ago. its us who needs to move on, if its not gonna happen.
Well said DAP, well said.
By Wayne in Utah
December 9, 2008 3:32 PM | Link to this
OK Dave, so you didn’t like my earlier trades and signings (not that it really matters to the Braves what either of us thinks). I will admit that you are a bit more in-tuned with what the Braves are doing than I am (like calling the Grand Canyon a gully)
Next take: Offer Boyer for Ankiel.
Send Frenchy, Parr or Redmond, JoJo, and Brandon Jones to KC for Guillen and Greinke.
Sign John Smoltz, and let him do whatever the heck he wants to do.
Wait about 6-7 weeks, and if there is still one more starter available cheap (wall flower), then make him a cheap offer
Then, call it good.
We still have Escobar, Kelly, and two outfielders who should both hit 20+ dingers. You hope Schafer makes Blanco and Anderson expendable. Pray that Smoltz, Moylan, Soriano and Gonzo will all be healthy.
We still might not make it too far into October, but at least we might stay competitive into September.
By Efrim
December 9, 2008 3:35 PM | Link to this
2:56 p.m. — Burnett’s agents, Braves to meet
The agents for free-agent right-hander A.J. Burnett will meet again with the Braves on Tuesday.
-Ken Rosenthal
Hopefully, that’s to finalize contract details.
So do I Marty, so do I.
If he met with the Yankees, Red Sox and Orioles yesterday, maybe Burnett’s agent goes back to Wren and asks for that fifth year guaranteed. If so maybe there is a deal.
By Wayne in Utah
December 9, 2008 3:36 PM | Link to this
Alright guys, I sense there are some that are dissin’ my man Ryan Freel on the “bog” today.
You know I gotta man-crush on him, and you continue to tease me like that…..
By ppaddy123
December 9, 2008 3:36 PM | Link to this
By DAP December 9, 2008 3:18 PM I think the Peavy to ATL deal is done.Toast. Not happening.Time for the Braves to move on. the braves HAVE moved on. they moved on a month ago. its us who needs to move on, if its not gonna happen.
I think you’re absolutely right! Kevin Towers is a MORON. He will end up taking less, or nothing at all for Peavy. he had a better offer from the Braves. Now he is stuck to do a deal with the Cubs. Good luck gettin’ that done, KT. YOU JACKASS!
By BravesFanInRockies
December 9, 2008 3:38 PM | Link to this
Dim Bulb,
Two keepers (at least) in one day. Nice job!
By Cubbies over Braves
December 9, 2008 3:39 PM | Link to this
It was hinted serveral times Peavy wanted to go to a team that is in contention next season. This is probably about as accurate as any other gossip on the trade. If anyone watched MLB this past season, I think the Cubs won a divsion and the Braves finished 19 games under 500. Surprised, I hardly think not.
By Mr. Snrub
December 9, 2008 3:42 PM | Link to this
Surprised, I hardly think not.
“Those words… I do not think they mean what you think they mean.”
By ppaddy123
December 9, 2008 3:44 PM | Link to this
Concerning the talks about Burnett, if Wren thinks there is a deal to be done and get done, it will GET DONE. However, I think this market and this group of free agents is waiting for “that one BIG GUY” to sign. And I don’t think KROD going to the Mets is the BIG deal someone like Burnett and his agent are waiting for.
By BravesFanInRockies
December 9, 2008 3:46 PM | Link to this
Bluestreak, others,
I don’t think you’re reading carefully. DOB thinks (and PopeVanIII and I suggested) that the Royals might be willing to essentially trade Greinke for Francouer straight-up if the Braves also took Guillen and his $12 million salary.
In that scenario, the Braves might have to throw in one other prospect. But we’re not talking a Peavy-like deal for Greinke.
The Royals would be giving up a very promising young pitcher but getting rid of a big contract (for them) and getting a player Dayton has always liked in Francouer. That’s it.
May be that KC expects a horrible year or two, revenue-wise, and simply has to get real cheap real fast.
By GEO123
December 9, 2008 3:49 PM | Link to this
Come on guys. Francoeur for Grienke? He’s an ace. You don’t get an ace without giving up alot and right now that’s not Francoeur. Including a fringe pitcher isn’t going to get it done either. The Royals don’t need to dump payroll so they aren’t going to give him away if you take on salary (Guillen).
By BravesFanInRockies
December 9, 2008 3:51 PM | Link to this
Also, DOB, have you heard any rumblings about Daniel Cabrera? If the O’s don’t offer him a contract, he’ll become a FA. Might the Braves offer something for him before the non-tender deadline Friday?
By Graham
December 9, 2008 3:54 PM | Link to this
Mr. Snrub
Classic! Absolutely classic!!!
By flange1
December 9, 2008 3:57 PM | Link to this
Wayne,
Did you see Ryan Freel to Baltimore?
He is gone……..
The NL will not be the same without him…..
By rammerjammer
December 9, 2008 3:58 PM | Link to this
The hating on Peavy is misplaced.
Nothing wrong with wanting to play for a winning team, but if all else fails, it’s ok to move close to home and hope for success.
Who among us prefers to work for a losing outfit? If we get the chance, we leave for something better.
Sorry to break the news to some of you, but Chicago won their division and we lost 90 games.
By Random
December 9, 2008 3:58 PM | Link to this
TexasBrave, N8, RC, Question, et al —
Select “Chipper Jones part 2” from this 790’s Instant Replay Piodcasts web page.
A transcription of what immediately preceded Braveheart’s 7:34 PM quote, in a discussion about Chipper’s leadership role on the team in regard to Escobar’s on-field “outbursts” (as mentioned earlier by DOB):
790: “What’s your role in all that?”
Chipper: “Well, in Yunel’s instance, it’s up to me to, uh, grab Eddie Perez — who I’ve played with since 1992 in Double-A — pull the kid aside and say ‘Look, there’s a professional way to act, and there’s the way you acted tonight, you know, and that can’t happen.’ ‘Cause there’s no reason, etc,” for a guy with the ability of Yunel Escobar, what he’s done at this point early in his career, to be on the trading block.
Later on Chipper says “Yunel is going to learn — he’s gonna get it. He’s going to settle down and he’s gonna, you know, BE that charismatic shortstop, you know, withIN the realm of the way the Braves play the game of baseball. And he’s going to be a team leader on this team for years to come … I hope.”
By Tomas
December 9, 2008 4:02 PM | Link to this
Encouraging news today. Zack Greinke, Jermaine Dye, Aj Burnett.
I think the Braves shouldn’t trade Frenchy unless the Royals absolutely want him. But they have like 5 capable outfielders(David De jesus, Coco Crisp, Jose Guillen, Mark Teahen, Joey Gathright), and the braves on the other hand have some issues in the outfield.
They want a SS to move Mike Aviles to 2B. I think trading Yunel Escobar, Blaine Boyer and Jo-jo Reyes for Zack Greinke is a great idea. Then sign Rafael Furcal.
I think this is a great backup plan if they fail to sign Aj.
I also heard the Braves had interest in Joe Mather, who certainly was unstoppable against the Braves.
Another good back up plan could be to trade for Cubs Carlos Zambrano if they land Peavy. They also need a SS.
By The Oracle
December 9, 2008 4:03 PM | Link to this
KJ and Jeffy and PTBNL to KC for Grienke and Guillen. Swing low level trade for Ankiel.Go Sign AJ for 4 yr 17 million. Prado to 2b. Guillen to OF. Ankiel in OF. We now have a .500 team. Gonzo is using smoke and mirrors. Trade him for prospects. When mid season comes and we are out of it, trade Chipper for BIG prospects. Seriously, we have to stick to rebuilding if we want a team that can challenge in two years. Must take two steps back to move 5 forward.
By kc08
December 9, 2008 4:03 PM | Link to this
Sources are now saying that Francouer and Escobar will be traded for Grienke and Guillen
By Nocturnal Owl
December 9, 2008 4:06 PM | Link to this
the word Peavy should be bleeped out of the blog. I feel it for my mann Wren. He was getting used since he did offer the best deal. I love how he put Atlanta on a short list but the royal Peavy truly had one or two teams. Now were sorta forced to trade unhappy yunel. great.
Mann crush on Freel? What is so great about him Wayne and McFann? Not sure he fits what were looking for….
By McFann O –[zzz]
December 9, 2008 4:08 PM | Link to this
Tomas Another good back up plan could be to trade for Cubs Carlos Zambrano if they land Peavy.
No! Not Zambrano! He punches his catchers!!
By TennesseePaul
December 9, 2008 4:11 PM | Link to this
Peavy hasn’t said a word during any of this. How could one conclude that he is the issue? It’s all speculation. The only thing that has been factually documented is Kevin Towers dumb@ss flip flopping all over the place attempting to explain why it is he will be going to Spring Training with Peavy and no short stop when he could have been headed to Spring Training with Escobar, A reliever, a starting pitcher and a young high profile center fielder.
The order of events, Braves had a deal, Towers said the Braves had the best offer out there, Towers said the Peavy train has left the station. Towers asked for more in the deal. Braves changed it up a bit. Towers spoke more about Atlanta being the only good option. Towers asks for more in the deal. Braves change it up a bit. Towers talks about the Braves being the only deal in town except maybe the Yankees. Axelrod says Peavy will not go to Yankees. Braves say they will not be including more in the trade. Towers asks for more in the trade. Wren calls of talks. Towers says Peavy might not have approved a trade anyway.
By The Future
December 9, 2008 4:13 PM | Link to this
Burnett signs with Yankees Braves trade top prospects for Greinke As usual, the Braves trade large prospect packages for players
By McFann O –[zzz]
December 9, 2008 4:14 PM | Link to this
The “Official Site” of the Royals has an article up about the Francoeur for Greinke thing.
“There’s nothing to the Greinke-Francoeur story,” [Royals general manager Dayton Moore] said with a smile, then went on his way.
I’d link up the article, but, you know…
By brian
December 9, 2008 4:15 PM | Link to this
do you think that Burnett will drag this out much longer or do you think he will go to the Braves and say guarantee my 5th year at $15-16 million per year and I’ll sign?
I know he wants a 5th year guaranteed but a 4 year $60-64 million deal with an option that vests with innings pitched over the last 2 years sounds reasonable to me. I would sweeten it by making the 5th year a $20 million year option. Some protection for the Braves if he gets hurt and reward for Burnett if he does not
By Tomas
December 9, 2008 4:15 PM | Link to this
rumor has been shot down.
By BravesFanInRockies
December 9, 2008 4:15 PM | Link to this
Oh well — Frenchy can buy rather than rent for awhile longer: Moore shot down the rumored trade.
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081209&contentid=3708380&vkey=newskc&fext=.jsp&cid=kc&partnerId=rsskc
By McFann O –[zzz]
December 9, 2008 4:17 PM | Link to this
N Owl What is so great about him Wayne and McFann?
Me? Uh…I don’t know…all I know is he gets concussions all the time……or is that some other guy?
By Efrim
December 9, 2008 4:21 PM | Link to this
Ken Rosenthal:
4:05 p.m. — Interest in Burnett intensifies
Could A.J. Burnett’s price rise to $100 million over five years?
It’s not out of the question if the Yankees lose out on CC Sabathia. At that point, Burnett’s leverage with the Yankees would be immense.
Failing to sign Burnett would leave the Yankees with free-agent options such as Derek Lowe, Ben Sheets and Randy Wolf
Burnett had meetings scheduled Tuesday with the Braves and Yankees, but other teams remain in the mix.
Burnett’s representatives met with the Yankees, Braves, Red Sox and Orioles on Monday, and Atlanta has made him an offer believed to be $60 million over four years with an option for a fifth.
The Yankees are in active discussions with Sabathia and Sheets as well as Burnett, and remain willing to sign both Sabathia and Burnett, sources say.
Sheets, who also met with the Rangers on Monday, would be a more realistic alternative if the Yankees struck out on one of the elite starters.
Yea, well, I can’t imagine the Yanks going that high. But if they lose out on Sabathia, anything is possible.
By Tomas
December 9, 2008 4:23 PM | Link to this
McFann, I don’t think you have to worry about McCann there. First off McCann would beat him to the ground, and second he is not an a*****. Remember Zambrano punched Michael Barret, and Michael Barret has a history maybe he deserved it. Remember his fight with A.J. Pierzynski. But Zambrano is crazy there is no doubt about that. He is like Hugo Chavez pitching. I remember this year he threatened Jose Reyes not to steal home.
By Don't Trade Franceour, Sheesh
December 9, 2008 4:25 PM | Link to this
They Royals would probably only trade Greinke to us is if we apologized nicely, and took Kyle Davies back…
By LKS
December 9, 2008 4:25 PM | Link to this
Escobar and his little hot headed moments are a BIG reason that I started liking and watching baseball. Im Kind of a new baseball fan. I have always loved football more until this year and Esco was the player that changed my mind. I always thought baseball was the most BORING game on the planet until this year. I LOVE that Escobar Actually shows some heart and feeling unlike the other robotic players I see that always say and do the right thing. IMHO players like Escobar are a breath of fresh air to the baseball world and will bring new found fans like myself. Baseball IS boring if you show NO emotion and I have not witnessed one game where Esco went over the line with his.
By ppaddy123
December 9, 2008 4:26 PM | Link to this
if the Braves COULD make a deal with the Royals, filling a pitching and outfield problem with Francouer, well, that would be great. I would still try to sign Brad Penny or Ben Sheets at a deep discount. The Braves were built on pitching and need to return to their pitching roots.
By Joe M.
December 9, 2008 4:27 PM | Link to this
Sigh. Francoeur for Grienke….if it sounds too good to be true; it is.
By AdirondackDave
December 9, 2008 4:27 PM | Link to this
Frency AND Escobar for Greinke and Guillen? This may happen with KC sweetening the deal although I’d had to see Yunel go. If he does, I imagine Tony Pena, Jr. will be headed back to Atlanta. Braves would probably need a couple prospects to swallow losing both Frenchy and Escobar AND eating all of Guillen’s hefty salary.
By Wayne in Utah
December 9, 2008 4:27 PM | Link to this
N Owl Hey, in past seasons, I have thought Freel would be a good piece for the Braves.
Now, There is not such a need now for him on the team, but what’s not to like about a guy who would run through a brick wall for a flyball!
Inside joke….you had to be here a couple years ago.
By ppaddy123
December 9, 2008 4:28 PM | Link to this
From listening to Wren’s comments; I think if the Burnett deal doesn’t get done this week……it won’t get done. The Braves will move on.
By James Munson
December 9, 2008 4:28 PM | Link to this
DOB, two things…1)Dont you think its possible the Cards are askin for Yunel to swap him to the Padres for Peavy?? Makes sense seeing as how they have Greene now and know the Padres really like Escobar…On another note, I happen to remember a game a few years ago when Guillen, playing for the Nats, came in high on Chipper at third and they “exchanged” a few words….The Braves are all about character, and I dont think they will want his attitude AND salary…
By Patrick
December 9, 2008 4:31 PM | Link to this
Man, DOB has really not been here for us all so far these meetings….
By Nocturnal Owl
December 9, 2008 4:33 PM | Link to this
Unconfirmed rumor from Andrew Baggarly: Sabathia declined the Yankees’ offer hmm this will continue and Brian I think this could delay A.J. signing. With the average offer, A.J. is receiving more offers and It might take more and Yankees will step it up.
If for some reason CC takes less and goes west say bye bye to A.J.
McFann Yikes remember that Barrett beating as well. Nice comeback remark on Z but he does have skills.)). Oh I thought you liked Freel, Never mind.
By Tomas
December 9, 2008 4:34 PM | Link to this
3:24pm: Unconfirmed rumor from Andrew Baggarly: Sabathia declined the Yankees’ offer. He still printed it though. The Giants are expected to meet with Sabathia this weekend; they’d need to get creative to sign him.
OH NO! This is bad news for the Braves, now AJ’s price could be 5yrs 100 million. I hope this isn’t true.
By PTBNL
December 9, 2008 4:34 PM | Link to this
By the end of last season I was ready to trash Boyer as it seems that many of you would do even still. However, just for something to think about, he has been working out with Smoltz this offseason. It may be worth thinking about keeping him. Remember what kind of year Andruw had after working out with Smoltz in the offseason? Smoltz has gone on record as a cheerleader of sorts for Boyer. He may want to make his predictions come true this season. I mean… some vested interest in doing so.
I am not saying that it is a given…. but personally, I am less inclined to get rid of Boyer until I see what Smoltz has been able to do with him.
By BravesFanInRockies
December 9, 2008 4:35 PM | Link to this
PREDICTION:
If the Braves sign Burnett for 5/$75, we’ll get at least three solid, healthy years out of him.
If instead the Yanks sign him for 5/$100, he’ll break down sometime in 2009 and will be a bigger albatross than Carl Pavano.
Because I believe in karma!
By ppaddy123
December 9, 2008 4:36 PM | Link to this
I really don’t think Sabathia will sign with the Yankees. I think he will be on the west coast. The Yankees have been run like a circus the last few years. Some guys might not mind that atmosphere, but I don’t Sabathia wants that. Burnett, on the other hand, I don’t think he cares. I think he is looking for the most money, period.
By David O'Brien
December 9, 2008 4:38 PM | Link to this
Tomas, AJ’s price is NOT going to go from four years, $60 mill to five years, $100 mill. That’s generally not quite how it works.
By Nocturnal Owl
December 9, 2008 4:40 PM | Link to this
Zambrano is crazy there is no doubt about that. He is like Hugo Chavez pitching Tomas
HA! Ya, it’s fun watching his highlights on Baseball tonight, He is nuts at times but in a funny way..except for that fight.. Big Z has the intensity of an ace and brings it.
By Joe M.
December 9, 2008 4:45 PM | Link to this
UPDATED 4:05 p.m. — Interest in Burnett intensifies
Could A.J. Burnett’s price rise to $100 million over five years?
It’s not out of the question if the Yankees lose out on CC Sabathia. At that point, Burnett’s leverage with the Yankees would be immense.
Failing to sign Burnett would leave the Yankees with free-agent options such as Derek Lowe, Ben Sheets and Randy Wolf
Feels like Burnett is slipping slowly but surely away.
By McFann O –[zzz]
December 9, 2008 4:45 PM | Link to this
Tomas—
Oh yeah. I was being a little sarcastic (shoulda stuck a ; > at the end of that post).
First off McCann would beat him to the ground
Ha…haha…maybe…I still wish I coulda seen his exchange with Jerry Hairston of the Reds! But I loved reading about it!
But you’re right, McCann’s not an…um……not a jerk. And Barrett does have a bit of a history…he sorta started the fight, anyway.
Don’t know if it’s been brought up (sorry if it has), but uh…Wayne, I think the Reds are close to sending Freel and a prospect to the O’s for the O’s catcher…
By ppaddy123
December 9, 2008 4:48 PM | Link to this
I’m sitting here listening to MLB Homeplate on XM and these Yankees fans are cracking me up. They want to sign everyone out there. They can certainly afford it. Personally, I hope they take the bait and sign Tex. The New York press will crucify him. Go ahead Yanks. Pay him $20 MM a year. They won’t sign Sabathia. The luster of being a Yankee has long been diminished by the NY media. I would hate to know I had to live my life with the media following my every move. AJ Burnett won’t sign with us. he will probably end up a Yankee. Hope is arm don’t fall off……
By Nocturnal Owl
December 9, 2008 4:49 PM | Link to this
Tomas, AJ’s price is NOT going to go from four years, $60 mill to five years, $100 mill. That’s generally not quite how it works DOB
What if CC does sign elsewhere. A.J. price could fly through the roof. I have similar feelings. Yankees want BOTH according to different reports…
By David O'Brien
December 9, 2008 4:50 PM | Link to this
Doesn’t sound like Guillen is likely to be part of any discussed deal with Braves. They’re not interested in him and his baggage, from what I hear. Not with that contract at that age, especially.
Now, Greinke, that’s a different matter. Braves would love to have him, but so would any team. Thing that obviously favors Braves is Dayton Moore’s belief in Francoeur, which is probably not matched by any other GM’s belief in the kid. No, I’ll go out on a limb and say it’s definitely not matched by any other.
But Royals are going to want Escobar and a solid prospect along with Francoeur for Greinke, from all indications. I know Braves were willing to part with Escobar in a Peavy deal, but just don’t think they would be for a relatively unproven, though very talented pitcher, who’s a free agent in two years (Peavy is under contract for four or five more years, depending on the option).
I could be wrong, but if Braves still believe they have a shot at A.J. (and they do), I don’t see them trading their shortstop to get a pitcher who’s not yet of the ace description.
By McFann O –[zzz]
December 9, 2008 4:50 PM | Link to this
N Owl Yikes remember that Barrett beating as well.
It was quite memorable…Braves really gave the Cubs a beating, too.
Yeah, Zambrano’s got skills, but I wouldn’t want him. Just something about him turns me off.
Oh I thought you liked Freel, Never mind.
That’s OK. I was pushing for Paul Bako earlier this off-season…maybe that’s what your thinking of—same team. (David Ross played for the Reds, too, ironically enough.)
By Tomas
December 9, 2008 4:55 PM | Link to this
Obviously not DOB(thats what Ken Rosenthal said sarcasticly), but I guess it’s safe to say the Braves won’t be able to outbid the Yankees.
By Chop Chop
December 9, 2008 4:57 PM | Link to this
5 years, $80-85 million.
Burnett could get that from the Yanks. That’s more money than the Braves could reasonably offer. At that salary, a Burnett injury would kill the Braves. It wouldn’t kill the Yanks.
By Dan
December 9, 2008 4:58 PM | Link to this
Things being printed indicate that the Cubs/Padres deal has cooled considerably.
DOB-Do you think that Towers is prepared to keep Peavy?
One additional question…..Taking into account each player’s respective cost to the Braves(either in prospects or cash), would you rather have Peavy or AJ Burnett?
By Wayne in Utah
December 9, 2008 4:59 PM | Link to this
PTBNL If your info on Boyer is true, then I rescind my request to trade him for Ankiel. Actually, I liked Boyer until he got tired.
So, it will have to be Acosta for Ankiel I guess.
By Efrim
December 9, 2008 5:03 PM | Link to this
So Sabathia has rejected the Yankees offer of 140 million over 6 years. If he isn’t signing for that, then he isn’t signing at all.
Good bye Burnett.
Hello…..Oliver Perez? Just kidding. Maybe Sabathia will sign eventually?
By Steve from OH
December 9, 2008 5:05 PM | Link to this
Calm down, everyone, and realize it’s rumor season, not trades-that-will-really-happen season. If KC traded Greinke for Francoeur, their fans would riot. We’re still squarely in the mix for Burnett. No need to wail and gnash the teeth yet. He’s NOT going to get 100+MM. We’re not giving up Escobar for peanuts. In fact, I think every public comment that FW give on the subject goes something like “we’re very happy with our infield (i.e. we’re not going to trade Yunel or KJ unless we’re blown away).” Oh, and he’s also flatly debunked any Kelly in left and Martin at 2B rumors. Not happening.
My money’s on our infield looking something like Kotchman, Johnson, Escobar, and Jones on opening day.
Braveheart, they make Ralph Lauren John Smoltz t-shirts? I think I’ve been deceived somewhere along the line…
By Lew
December 9, 2008 5:08 PM | Link to this
Tomas-Re: your 4:02 post-Dude, do you even live in the same dimension as the rest of us?
By Mike S
December 9, 2008 5:09 PM | Link to this
Boyer was a stud last year until Bobby wore him out. I wouldn’t trade him as just a “throw-in arm” or low-value trade piece.
I think he has a bright future. He’s got that bulldog mentality and never said a word about being overused or refused to take the ball, even when it was obvious he was worn out.
By Bobby's Cox
December 9, 2008 5:09 PM | Link to this
ESPN.com is reporting the Mets and Franky agreed to a 3 year, 37 million dollar deal.
link
By Nocturnal Owl
December 9, 2008 5:11 PM | Link to this
But Royals are going to want Escobar and a solid prospect along with Francoeur for Greinke, from all indications DOB
Sounds way too much for an unproven but possible ace. Sounds like Dayton wants the entire Braves minors he previously worked with. Challenging winter for Wren.
KROD a met
By BravesFanInRockies
December 9, 2008 5:11 PM | Link to this
ppaddy123,
Re: Yanks fans —
I listen to ESPN’s Colin Cowherd on the morning commute (my blood pressure apparently needs elevating). Anyway, he’s not sold on AJ going to NY at all; doesn’t think he could handle the media circus. (That may be why CC would prefer to be on the West Coast too.)
That may be another reason (besides being in the AL) that Peavy was reportedly that hot on NYY, even though the Yanks were apparently willing to offer a deal comparable to the Braves to get him.
By safebet
December 9, 2008 5:11 PM | Link to this
maybe would take on a guillen to make the deal then trade him.
By Bobby's Cox
December 9, 2008 5:11 PM | Link to this
It’s old news that the Dodgers re-signed Casey Blake.
But, they also signed Mark Loretta
Link
By David O'Brien
December 9, 2008 5:13 PM | Link to this
Efrim, as I said, the Yankees, at least so far, have given no indication they would guarantee a fifth year for Burnett. At his age, I’d suggest he’s not going to take a four-year deal from them even if it’s worth, say, $17 mill a year ($68 mill total), IF the Braves offer a five-year deal worth $75 mill.
Not that Braves have offered that yet, or that Yankees have flatly said they won’t, but so far that’s what I’ve gathered from conversations, that Braves will give a fifth year guarantee if that’s what it comes down to, bottom line.
At 32, with his background, I don’t think he can realistically look forward and feel like there’s a great chance he could get a another big deal four years from now.
Of course, if Yankees decide they really want him bad enough, they can simply add a fifth year guaranteed at whatever salary they want, and if Burnett (and his agent) want to take the biggest contract he’ll go there.
If he’d rather pitch in the Atlanta environment over the Yankees’ environment, he will. But I’m not privy to his thinking in that regard.
By ecpglp
December 9, 2008 5:14 PM | Link to this
On the KC website about 1/2 hour ago:
LAS VEGAS — Royals general manager Dayton Moore hates unfounded trade rumors and he loves to squelch them. So, as Moore walked down a hallway of Bellagio Hotel on Tuesday en route to a GMs’ meeting, he couldn’t resist calling aside a reporter.
“There’s nothing to the Greinke-Francoeur story,” he said with a smile, then went on his way.
That popped up earlier in the day when Tony Massarotti of the Boston Globe wrote that a “National League executive” said the Royals and Atlanta had “serious discussions” about a trade that would send pitcher Zack Greinke to the Braves for outfielder Jeff Francoeur.
But Moore promptly denied the story, in line with comments he made on Monday night about his