AJC > Sports > Braves > Blog > Archives > 2008 > December > 05 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USBraves await decision from A.J.
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Now what?
Well, we take a deep breath and wait.
The Braves made the first big offer to A.J. Burnett, a four-year deal with a fifth-year option and salaries that average out to about $15 mill per season if the deal is maximized by the vesting option.
Now, the Braves can’t do much else on the pitching-ace front until they get an answer from Burnett, who was expected to get an offer from the Yankees by today, if he doesn’t have one already.
At noon today I talked on the phone with A.J.’s agent, Darek Braunecker, who said he planned to meet with teams during the Winter Meetings that start Monday in Las Vegas.
He wouldn’t say how many offers had been made or how many teams were still involved, but did reiterate the Braves are “still squarely in the mix. We’ll continue dialogue with them at the appropriate time…. We’re not commenting on offers. Anything related to offers, we’re refraining from commenting on.
“Numerous offers, that’s the best way to characterize it… I can’t tell you that a decision is imminent, but we are progressing. We’re advancing in the process.”
We do know all the offers are from teams within driving distance of Burnett’s suburban Baltimore home. His wife, who is from that area, doesn’t fly and it was worked into his Toronto contract that the Blue Jays provided first-class ground transportation for his wife to make eight trips per season.
The first time Burnett went through free agency, there were more than 20 teams interested. This time he and his agent eliminated a lot of teams right off the bat because of location.
Hey, if you’re going to limit your market, sure is nice to have teams in New York, Philly, Baltimore, Toronto and Atlanta within reasonable driving distance of either your suburban Baltimore home and/or Burnett’s hometown of North Little Rock. A few of those teams are known to spend a little coinage.
The Yankees, Phillies, Orioles and Blue Jays were all expected to compete with the Braves for Burnett’s services, and some in the industry believe the Braves’ big initial offer put them alongside the Yankees in the lead in this potential sweepstakes (the Yankees have to be considered a front-seat occupant, regardless, simply because at any time they could blow away the Braves’ offer if they wanted to).
Braunecker said don’t believe what some have written about Toronto being “out of it” with Burnett after comments made Thursday by the Blue Jays GM indicating they believe they’re going to lose him to another team.
“Toronto is not out of it,” Braunecker said emphatically. “They may be a little surprised by where the market stands today versus where they anticipated it being a month ago, but by no means are they out of it. Fact of matter is, it’s a place that A.J. loved, and they’ve indicated to us they’ll be as creative as can [contract-wise] to bring him back.”
Will Burnett’s decision come down to money alone? Would Burnett and his agent consider the difference in cost of living between New York and Atlanta, or just take the highest offer?
We don’t know. But we do know Burnett wants to go to a team that has a chance to contend, and his agent said the Braves helped themselves in that regard with the trade this week for durable veteran starter Javier Vazquez.
“No question about it,” Braunecker said. “To me, for any free agent who believes winning is important, the Atlanta Braves should become a more appealing club now, because I think Javier Vazquez makes them a better club. That’s my personal opinion, and A.J. would echo those same sentiments. By all means, [Atlanta] is a more appealing situation today than it was two days ago.”
But what if Philly were to step up with a similar offer? One could certainly argue the Phillies are better equipped to win the East in ’09 than the Braves.
Then again, the Phillies might not be willing to pay anywhere near what the Braves offered for Burnett, which, if people will consider closely, is really a lot of money and years for a pitcher who’d never won more than 12 games before this season, a pitcher who’s missed time for elbow surgery, shoulder soreness and other injuries, and whose big seasons were the ones just before free agency.
(By the way, I believe the guaranteed years of the deal probably have higher average annual salaries than the option year, but am not certain of that. But it would explain why the first four years could average out to close to $16 mill per, not $15 mill.)
The Braves, frankly, are in desperate need of an ace. The World Champion Phillies are not. Burnett, when healthy like he was in 2008, is absolutely an overpowering ace.
So, the Braves wait.
They can’t exactly make a trade or a free-agent offer for a lesser pitcher, a guy not really an ace but the closest they might get after A.J., until they hear from A.J., right?
Let’s face it, you don’t want to sign Jon Garland and then find out that Burnett was about to say “yes” to your offer.
Will Burnett sign this weekend? Probably not. During next week’s Winter Meetings in Vegas? Perhaps. But it might take even longer than that.
Don’t know if it’ll be come full-fledged bidding war, but if the Yankees believe there’s a good chance they might lose out on CC Sabathia or Derek Lowe, then I’d expect Brian Cashman to step up and open the Yankee vault for Burnett.
When I asked a Yankees scout yesterday if he thought their team could afford both CC and A.J., he said, “Probably.” But at the same time, he pointed out how surprised he was that the Yankees hadn’t offered arbitration to Bobby Abreu, and how that made it clear to him that this horrendous economy was even having some effect on the
So the Braves give A.J. time to decide. No deadlines. And, of course, keep working the phones with other teams and player agents (and meeting face-to-face with them next week in Vegas) to explore other possibilities, letting other free agents know they’re interested (without making an offer yet) and talking to other teams about what it might take to get this pitcher or that hitter.
Lot of people ask me if the Braves might get back in the Jake Peavy negotiations. I still don’t think the door is as closed on those talks as the Braves say publicly, but I’ll take them at their word when they say there have been no discussions in more than three weeks.
And no, the Padres didn’t call the Braves before or after they traded shortstop Khalil Greeen to St. Louis, to see if Atlanta would revisit the last offer the Braves made for Peavy that included Yunel Escobar as the centerpiece.
The Braves say the Greene matter has no effect at all, no impact, on them or their offseason plans. In other words, they say it didn’t stoke the embers on the Peavy trade.
Again, I’m not certain that couldn’t change at any moment with a call from Padres GM Kevin Towers, who hasn’t had one of the more resoundingly successful offseason in GM history, for sure, and could certainly use a face-saving move about right now.
Oh, yes, a hitter: Amid all the pitching-centric news with the Braves, they continue to search for a power-hitting outfielder who fits their needs, a guy who doesn’t necessarily have to hit 40 home runs but does have to be a run-producer and be able to play adequate defense, and preferably better than adequate (but that’s admittedly tough to find).
They’ll take a guy who hits 20-25 homers if he’s a run-producer, a guy who scores runs and drives in a lot of runs. Even though they got a pathetic 27 homers from their outfield last year, the Braves haven’t made home runs the single most important stat they’re looking for in an outfielder.
But the guy does have to have power. And there aren’t a bevy of such players available who aren’t either owed a ton of money, are incapable of playing respectable defense, or looking to break the bank with long-term contracts.
“I don’t know,” Wren said yesterday, when I asked him about the prospects of getting that hitter anytime soon. “The tough part is there’s a very limited number of them.
“Pitching’s most important, but we do need another run-producing bat. It may come down to something that happens even during spring training or during the season. We’re focused on trying to do something obviously before that and putting our team together, but we’re not going to do something just for the sake of doing something.”
They could trade Kelly Johnson for St. Louis outfielder Ryan Ludwick, whose 37-homer season in 2008 contrasted sharply with his injury-plagued past seasons. He’s a gamble, and the Braves are reluctant to trade Johnson, who they really believe can be a well-above-average second baseman defensively, and one of the best hitting second basemen in all of baseball.
But if they don’t think they can get a power bat anywhere else, well, it wouldn’t surprise me if they pull the trigger on that deal, particularly if the Cardinals sweeten the pot just a bit with another young player or prospect.
Martin Prado will never be the hitter Johnson is, but he’s a solid defensive second baseman and a good line-drive hitter who plays the game the right way, has plenty of versatility, and could probably hold down the fort at second base for a season, or until the Braves could get a better player there.
Diversions: Couple of fine Texan singer-songwriters playing Atlanta in the next week, the venerable Delbert McClinton on Saturdy at Variety Playhouse and talented young troubadour Hayes Carll on Thursday at the Five Spot, just a couple hundred feet away from Variety and an intimate little joint that should be a great place to see Carll. Hopefully I’m back from Vegas on Thursday in time to make it out to that one.
The Shield finale: The latest issue of Entertainment Weekly had a brief Q&A with the creator of the sensational TV show The Shield, regarding a few points in the recent series finale. Since it’s stuff we discussed here with a bunch of big fans of the show (myself included) after the finale aired, I thought I’d give you two of the questions and answers that were particularly pertinent to our blog discussions.
EW interviewer: I understand Shane committing suicide, but did he have to take wife Mara and son Jackson with him?
Shawn Ryan: “To us, it made sense. It wasn’t fun to write. But in terms of the overall arc of the show, it felt like the place it should go.
EW interviewer: At the end, Vic left his desk job with his gun. Where was he racing off to?
Shawn Ryan: “We’ve always viewed Vic as a shark. He’s someone who, in order to survive, has to move forward. Is he going to search for his kids? Is he going to pursue his own sort of police work on his own time? Is he going to do something postal? I don’t know. But I do think the shark swims forward.”
(Me: Well said, regarding Vic. Love the analogy.)
Now, a tune: This one of my favorites from a brilliant, criminally underrated blues/rock singer-songwriter and guitarist who put out a rich body of work before he died of lung cancer at age 46 in 2005.
“LIVING WITH THE LAW” by Chris Whitley
Brother runnin’ powder money
Daddy’s somewhere on a drunk
In the hours, after washing
I do my dreaming with a gun
Well I come down from the country
Find a lesson in the draw
There ain’t no secrets in the city
It’s hard living with the law
They got machines, mama I can’t figure
They got a romance made for doing time
Send me out child, running outside
Out along a world of crime
Gonna swing my scythe, got a hand upon the handle
Gonna shade my children ways I understand
Milk the trigger, kill the hunger
Staring down this broken land
So fetch on up your greasy apron
Spread your lover in the straw
Hear me baby, I’m nearly crazy
It’s hard living with the law
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Comments
By SeaAtl
December 5, 2008 1:39 PM | Link to this
Well, it will be an anxious week or two - with the winter meetings coming up and most Braves fans hoping for a big pickup / trade or two (thanks to Wrens promises for both). Sure hope Atlanta ends up with Burnett or Peavy. Then some help for that awful outfield. I don’t think we even need to think about any other positions - none others are glaring weaknesses.
By Patrick
December 5, 2008 1:39 PM | Link to this
Spring Training to find a bat in the outfield especially a run producer??? If Wren thinks that is a realistic option the offense is in big trouble for next year
By 18 Wheels of Love
December 5, 2008 1:41 PM | Link to this
Peterbilt
Peterbilt
By Original Jon
December 5, 2008 1:42 PM | Link to this
Thanks for the new blog DOB!!
By McFann O –[zzz]
December 5, 2008 1:42 PM | Link to this
Thanks for the new Blog, Chief!
Maybe I’m first today! Prob’ly not.
By ChopChopHipHop
December 5, 2008 1:43 PM | Link to this
DOB, did you see the Hot Stove edition of Baseball Tonight on ESPN last night? Carl Ravech and Steve Phillips gave the impression that they felt AJ Burnett would end up with the Braves. Did you get the same impression?
By Graham
December 5, 2008 1:43 PM | Link to this
Good article. As a tribute to Stevie Ray Vaughn regarding Burnett, “Tick-tock, tick-tock, tick-tock people. Time’s tickin’ away!” I fully expect Kelly Johnson to be traded some time before spring training, mainly in a deal for pitching. Just a hunch, nothing more.
By keylargo
December 5, 2008 1:43 PM | Link to this
Hey Guys. After being a long time reader of the blog I finally decided to post. As a sports journalism major, I hope I can bring some intelligent and well-informed conversation to the table.JournalistJeff
A point I haven’t seen brought up about Francouer. It seems like over the years guys have offseasons where they “bulk up” trying to improve their power numbers. For example: Ron Gant and Javy Lopez. The results never seem to be good. I remember the next year, Javy slimmed down and hit 40 hrs. I was curious if Francouer has taken the same route and tried to slim down this offseason?JournalistJeff
Your first paragraph, if it proves true, will separate you from the masses rather quickly.
When Javier Lopez went through his transformation, he left the Braves in Sept. looking like John Kruk and came back in March looking like Jose Canseco. I was astounded then and now have a different opinion of what he did to go from a chubby kid to a man’s man. And a few women noticed as well. A few million.
Jeff F. did it the old fashioned way. He just pumped iron and evidently did not mix in the flexibility and stretching exercises so important to a baseball player. I would say he was what we used call “mucscle bound”. Strong but stiff and inflexible. Unable to move smoothly or gracefully.
By Nate
December 5, 2008 1:47 PM | Link to this
There’s a big difference between Burnett and Peavy. Everyone seems to be ignoring how much better Jake is, and how fragile A.J. is. I gotta think that Peavy is a better bet, even if it means trading for another shortstop.
By Joel
December 5, 2008 1:48 PM | Link to this
DOB, Do you think Towers pride is getting in the way of him contacting the Braves about the Peavy trade? With Greene gone, it seems like such a no brainer (if there ever was such in pro sports).
By kdbanks
December 5, 2008 1:49 PM | Link to this
I was just writing a post about how trading KJ makes more sense than trading Yunel because we have Prado to play second, even though I would rather keep KJ.
The more I think about it, however, I think it would be a mistake to move KJ. Escobar can go, but I think KJ is going to keep getting better.
Now obviously the team you’re trading with will want one or the other, but if the Cards want KJ for Ludwick, iI don’t think that’s a good deal. I had no problem trading Yunel to San Diego, and still wouldn’t.
But I agree with others who say overpaying for Furcal is not a fun option either.
By DAP
December 5, 2008 1:50 PM | Link to this
thanks for the new blog DOB, just in time!
it has been a tuff off season so far! i really do not have much hope that this team will be improved enough to make me confident they can win…but anything can happen once the season starts!
im hoping that by the end of next week we will have a really good idea of how our team is going to look.
By KChopNC
December 5, 2008 1:51 PM | Link to this
DOB I’m not sure I agree with you about Martin Prado.. he seems to hit the daylights out of the ball and rises to every challenge. Remember KJ had some serious slumpage at times this year!
By Hot-Stover
December 5, 2008 1:52 PM | Link to this
and we wait…..
By Thundersticks
December 5, 2008 1:53 PM | Link to this
I think Wren has positioned himself perfectly. He has made it clear to AJ that the Braves would love to have him. But this also strengthens his position should Towers call about Peavy. I don’t think Wren really cares which of the two happens, as long as he gets his ace.
Putting the two side-by-side, I believe Peavy will be the better pitcher going forward. They will both cost the Braves about the same amount of money, but Peavy would also cost prospects and a replacement for Yunel.
I say sign AJ, trade Yunel to LA for Kemp, then sign Furcal and let’s go!!
By Mike Clark
December 5, 2008 1:54 PM | Link to this
I know this is blasphamy, but why don’t they move Johnson back to left and platoon him with Diaz. They will get 20-25 homers between them and then put Prado at second. He is a good hitter and that way we get three good bats:Prado, Johnson, and Diaz.
By richbrave
December 5, 2008 1:54 PM | Link to this
DAVID:
Man this blog is like a bad marriage. No matter how hard you try, its always near collapse. What a difference a year makes. The volume has picked up. Less folks working.?
By Joel
December 5, 2008 1:54 PM | Link to this
Was a little disappointed we didn’t bring back Jorge Julio after how he pitched last fall, especially for the price that the Brewers got him for ($950k + incentives).
By Chuck James is solid until the 6th!! (Formerly Steve-O)
December 5, 2008 1:54 PM | Link to this
If they don’t get A.J. they need to get Peavy. There is NO backup plan, none. What tier do they go to after that DOB if say A.J. goes to the Yankees and Peavy is not there anymore, whether to the Cubs or whatever. They look at Jon Garland? Randy Wolf? There is no alternative, is there?
By Lookoutfan
December 5, 2008 1:57 PM | Link to this
The Braves need to be patient. Wren is doing exactly what the GM should do, work the system and who knows who might be available….
By elliwg6
December 5, 2008 1:58 PM | Link to this
SO theoretically the Braves have set the market for Burnett. But are they willing to go higher in terms on annual salary. Not that we could win a bidding war with the Yankees anyway, but maybe we won’t have to if they land CC. Point is, is this the brave’s highest offer?
By Saff
December 5, 2008 2:00 PM | Link to this
The best case scenario for the Braves would be to keep Yunel and Kelly, sign Burnett over Peavy just because of all the Prospects but mainly Escobar since he is the only shortstop in our system and nothings on the market. The reason i would like to keep Kelly is that i really think he will hit 20-25 homers in a coupler years man he can smash the ball. Trading Kelly for Ludwick is a risk hes has one good year and that was with Pujols protecting him. So Wren sign Burnett and find a outfeilder to trade some prospects for, or bite the bullet and sign Pat Burell on a 2 year deal hes got the power but no defense its just a slim market. Cant wait for the Meetings GO BRAVES!!!!!!!
By cj
December 5, 2008 2:00 PM | Link to this
Dave, did the Braves ever have any interest in bringing back Jermaine Dye? I was surprised he didn’t come in the Vazquez deal but maybe he was too spendy. I wonder if they have ever had any thought of Marcus Thames from Detroit.
By Dan
December 5, 2008 2:00 PM | Link to this
DOB,
Thanks for the updates as always! You are the best! You talking about music in your blogs got me to thinking about something that I have been meaning to ask you. I was wondering if you like the Jonas brothers. I know from reading your posts it’s not really your type of music, anyway just wondering. Also, I am not trying to “police” everything you write, but didn’t you mean Keith Whitley in the song you listed above called, ” Living With The Law “? Just trying to help you out my man. You are the best!
By ppaddy123
December 5, 2008 2:02 PM | Link to this
I don’t understand the Braves reluctance to move Kelly Johnson back to left field. He played there before and was OK. He will be an upgrade offensively at the position. As DOB noted, there really isn’t a lot to pick from on the free agent market. The Braves could save the $10-13 million they were or are expecting to pay at that position and use it elsewhere. Prado and Infante will do a great job at 2nd. Plus it gives the braves the money to bid on 2 pitchers (Peavy & Burnett) at the same time. I’m not saying they will sign both, but if you could? Wouldn’t you? Pitching wins championships. If the Braves return to talks with the Padres and Escobar gets traded, then they can use that extra money at SS. Of course, all of this is theoretical…….but sometimes, in this economy, we need to think outside the box.
By Eware
December 5, 2008 2:09 PM | Link to this
DOB, were Dave Ross and Tim Hudson battery mates while at Auburn? Both played 1996-1997. I imagine that they were. If we sign him, I’d love to know what Huddy thinks.
I really wish he was healthy. Its weird, because I feel like Braves Nation hasn’t really discussed how devastating his injury was to this team.
By David O'Brien
December 5, 2008 2:09 PM | Link to this
DOB, Do you think Towers pride is getting in the way of him contacting the Braves about the Peavy trade? With Greene gone, it seems like such a no brainer (if there ever was such in pro sports).Joel
I don’t know if it’s pride, but suspect that’s just a small part of the mess that also involves Peavy’s apparent ambivalence (at best) about Atlanta — can the guy not speak on his own behalf when so many rumors are flying? — and Braves’ understandable desire to get something done and make sure they don’t miss out on the limited number of other aces while waiting around for Towers to do something.
That, plus if they don’t have to get a new SS, they’d prefer not to. Sure, some red flags went up with Escobar’s temper and attitude at times last season, but he’s still an extremely talented young player who could be the Braves’ shortstop for years to come, and be one of the best in baseball at the position if he continues to develop.
But getting back to Peavy, it’s just not a good time for the Braves to wait around for a guy who may or may not want to be in Atlanta, who may or may not waive his no-trade clause if it ever gets to that stage of the negotiations, and for a GM who continually says things like wondering aloud about whether a deal could get done anyway because of the Braves’ policy against no-trade clauses (a Schuerholz-era policy, but not necessarily one that holds now).
All that said, I don’t think Peavy-to-Braves is entirely dead. Could always change with one phone call.
By Joe M.
December 5, 2008 2:12 PM | Link to this
Kelly Johnson for Ludwick is insane. Awful potential deal for the Braves. I bet the Cardinals are licking their chops over that prospect.
And WHO cares about left field defense? Seriously. It is not shortstop or center field. Adam Dunn will win you a lot more games than Ryan Langerhans.
By cj
December 5, 2008 2:15 PM | Link to this
ppaddy123-Did you actually watch KJ play left field? I did and he was horrible, he couldn’t judge a fly ball and if he had to go back for it forget about it. He’s at a position now to do the least damage and still keep his bat in the lineup. Simply moving him to a different position isn’t going to give us another big bat in the lineup anyway. I like Prado but he’s not a big bat by any stretch.
By Marty
December 5, 2008 2:16 PM | Link to this
Thundersticks - What makes you think that the Dodgers would trade Kemp for Kelly?
Mike Clark and ppaddy123 - As a second baseman, Kelly is a very good hitter playing a premium position. As a left-fielder, he is a good hitter playing a position that even defensive butchers like Pat Burrell, Adam Dunn, and Manny Ramirez “can” play. Kelly’s value is much, much higher as a second baseman than as a LF. The only reason that he was stuck in LF a few years back was because he was blocked in the infield. Now that he’s already played a fair amount of time at second and has proved to be decent there with good range, it would be counterproductive to move him again.
By DAP
December 5, 2008 2:17 PM | Link to this
Eware I feel like Braves Nation hasn’t really discussed how devastating his injury was to this team.
yes, what a huge huge blow that was. if huddy was healthy and ready to pitch in 2009, hudson, jurjens, vazquez is a very good start toward a rotation.
instead of setting up the team to tread water and maybe if we are lucky be in the running for the division or wildcard title, we would be building this team to go all the way.
that one really hurt. ive been mourning hudson’s injury for months.
By Wayne in UT
December 5, 2008 2:18 PM | Link to this
Steve-O (I like that better than the CJ stuff)
My friend, do you really believe that FW doesn’t have an intricate plan with contingicies? No way does a guy get to that position w/out a few options.
Granted, we might not be thrilled with plan D or E. But, I bet they are there.
Assuming that Peavy is plan B, my guess is that he has 4-5 other targets as Plan C, any of which might require a trade of guys like Escobar or KJ along with a similar group of players offered to San Diego. I don’t know who all these players are, but think in terms of guys like Oswalt, Garza, Greinke, Halladay, etc.
Just my guess. So many bloggers think that lots of these moves are impulse moves, but I think not.
By sooner
December 5, 2008 2:21 PM | Link to this
“…but didn’t you mean Keith Whitley in the song you listed above called, ” Living With The Law “? Just trying to help you out my man.” DAN
Uh-oh. First the Jonas brother question, then the Keith Whitley “correction.” Go easy DOB.
By flange1
December 5, 2008 2:22 PM | Link to this
DAP and others,
The “trouble or dog house” that I was speaking about on the previous blog with Yunel is what DOB just alluded too.
He has alluded to it before.
I don’t think he is yet in a Wickman or McBride position (or even a JoJo position) but it is an issue.
By Marty
December 5, 2008 2:24 PM | Link to this
As many of you know, I am completely against signing Jon Garland. Apparently, I am not the only one who thinks very little of Garland’s skills. Here is what Keith Law has to say about Garland:
Garland should have “AVOID” tattooed on his forehead, as everything about his stuff and performance is pointing downward. He has never had an out pitch, and his stuff was more ordinary than usual this year.
He was sitting 88-92 with a mostly straight fastball, a fringy slider in the low-80s and a hard changeup that keeps lefties from destroying him, although they still hit him hard. In 2008, his strikeout rate dropped, his walk rate increased, his home run rate increased and, of course, his ERA spiked, even though the defense behind him was better than the one he left with the White Sox. He brings one thing to the table in his durability, as he has gone seven straight seasons with at least 190 innings pitched. But Barry Zito’s best attribute when he went to San Francisco was his durability too.
I apologize if this has been posted here before.
By McFann O –[zzz]
December 5, 2008 2:27 PM | Link to this
Marty As a second baseman, Kelly is a very good hitter playing a premium position.……Kelly’s value is much, much higher as a second baseman than as a LF.
Whoa…that conversation sounds a lot like one involving another one of our players and first base…
The Army Men Theory again…though I know Johnson has played left field.
By DCbrave
December 5, 2008 2:28 PM | Link to this
Burnett, when healthy like he was in 2008, is absolutely an overpowering ace DOB
Thanks for the new blog, DOB. I still don’t think Burnett is an ace, and especially don’t like him being the Braves’ ace. He never has ace numbers, and even his best year, 08’s numbers (W-L 18-10, ERA 4.07 and WHIP 1.34) are hardly an ace’s numbers. Overpowering? maybe. Ace? Hardly, at least not for a good rotation, which I thought the Braves want to have. Having him or not, the Braves need to go get a true ace, somehow, probablly via trade.
By Wayne in UT
December 5, 2008 2:29 PM | Link to this
DOB Thanks for the clean sheet of paper and report. Mucho grass.
Correct me if I am mistaken, but I thought that Peavy identified teams he would come to in a trade, and I thought Atlanta was one of those teams.
How in good conscious could hee turn down a trade to a team HE listed?
This fisaco is exactly why JS didn’t offer no-trade clauses in contracts.
By Lee in S GA
December 5, 2008 2:29 PM | Link to this
I really feel like Brandon Jones could eventually turn into a good overall player but unfortunately with this current Braves outfield in question, at every position, this organization is not going to be able to be patient and give him time to develop. It would not surprise me to see him eventually traded and within 2 to 3 years become the type of outfielder the Braves are wanting to obtain this season.
By Marty
December 5, 2008 2:29 PM | Link to this
DOB - In looking through Law’s list of whom he feels are the top 50 free agents, I noticed Juan Rivera’s name. Do you believe that he is a potential option for the Braves, even if only as a plan B or C? He has had injury problems, but when healthy he has hit for decent average and power, and he plays a solid LF. Just a thought.
By Thundersticks
December 5, 2008 2:29 PM | Link to this
Thundersticks - What makes you think that the Dodgers would trade Kemp for Kelly? Marty
That would be even better, but my recommendation was for Escobar, not KJ.
If they don’t get A.J. they need to get Peavy. There is NO backup plan, none. What tier do they go to after that DOB if say A.J. goes to the Yankees and Peavy is not there anymore, whether to the Cubs or whatever. They look at Jon Garland? Randy Wolf? There is no alternative, is there? Chuck James is solid until the 6th!! (Formerly Steve-O)
I believe the fall-backs for every team in need of an ace are Ben Sheets and Oliver Perez.
By MiamiBrave
December 5, 2008 2:30 PM | Link to this
DOB
I think you’re exactly right on the Peavy silence…
I believe his silence speaks volumes, the guy can’t come out and make a statement? forget that, he can’t make one through his agent? I think his silence shows that he doesn’t want to come to the ATL anymore…I think Towers is probably speaking on his behalf…or else he would come out and said something, anything at all denying this or that…
They mention you everyday in the headlines and you don’t address it, not even once? how bout your GM making suggestions about your thinking and you don’t care to agree or disagree with them or anything or speak for yourself
I think Peavy wants to end up in Chitown…bottom line…he doesn’t have to say a word…its obvious
Last night on BBTN they said a deal was being worked for him to Chicago after the ownership situation was resolved.
Personally, after all this, I would like Peavy cuz I give him the Ace edge over Burnett, but I think I would rather pay the money for AJ instead of losing guys to San Diego
By Efrim
December 5, 2008 2:31 PM | Link to this
I’d have to agree with what Joe M. is saying.
Not that anyone in the Braves front office would care, but Johnson for Ludwick would be a clear win for the Cardinals among most media outlets. Classic sell high by the Cards. I suppose people for the trade would say, “Hey but we have Martin Prado to fill in for Kelly”. That is too much of a risk to take in my mind. Martin Prado has not proven that he is an everyday second baseman in the major leagues. Especially one for a team that is trying to contend for a division title. Now, there are more things that go into the Braves contending that the difference of Johnson to Prado, but I see no progress if a Johnson for Ludwick swap went through.
As far as left field defense, I’m not sure I really care either. Braves need power. Preferably right handed power. The names talked about, Dye and Ludwick, would be great. But it sounds like Dye isn’t coming to Atlanta, and I have already said what I feel about Ludwick for Johnson. If this Burnett deal goes down for 15-16 per year, the Braves will still have something like 13 million to play with. So they could spend money on the free agent market, although the options are limited. Hopefully FW figures something out that doesn’t have them dealing a middle infielder.
By GeorgetownKid
December 5, 2008 2:31 PM | Link to this
Mike Clark
Your 1:54 post about moving Kelly Johnson to LF and playing Prado at 2B isn’t a bad idea, in my opinion. A Johnson/Diaz platoon would give us at least 25HR and a better than .300 average.
But, I don’t think the Braves will do it (nor should they), because, as O’Brien said, Johnson could be a GREAT offensive 2B, while he would be merely average as a LF. And, despite the shallow OF market this offseason, it is much easier to find a good hitting OF than a good hitting 2B.
But still, it isn’t a bad idea, and the Braves should at least consider it as a possibility.
By ncscoots
December 5, 2008 2:31 PM | Link to this
But this [going after Burnett] also strengthens [Wren’s] position should Towers call about Peavy
Then, Frank can explain to Towers that his original offer was pulled the day they previously ended talks, and they can discuss a new package. One which doesn’t begin with a SS. Towers either has to find a way to manage his payroll with Peavy on it, or expect to get less of an offer upon groveling.
Why would Wren publicly and noisily exit from the talks in a huff, and then offer the very same package when the trading partner wants to revisit? That would just validate Towers’ previous tactic of continually asking for more (why not ask for more, if you can always get the offered package later, regardless?).
Nossir. That holdup attempt has to have consequences for Towers, because, otherwise, it has consequences for Wren’s image. In the end, the perception of Wren among his colleagues as a strong GM is more important than a deal for any single player.
So take heed, Frank. When it comes to negotiating, I’m no Anders (of course), but I know enough not to let a hood stick a gun in my face twice. Second time around, I’m the guy doin’ the stickin’.
By F Jake Peavy
December 5, 2008 2:31 PM | Link to this
I hope he DOES go to Chicago. They have a great history of making it to the World Series! He’s an idiot trying to jump on the easy train.
By David O'Brien
December 5, 2008 2:32 PM | Link to this
Dan, I’m not even going to bother with your question about the silly Jonas Brothers, but let me ask you, does the dude singing and playing in this video for “Living With the The Law” look anything like the late country singer Keith Whitley?
for those who’d prefer to paste the link into your browser: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HdzJ03tsmM
By Random
December 5, 2008 2:33 PM | Link to this
SeaAtl: “I don’t think we even need to think about any other positions - none others are glaring weaknesses.”
Well, not until the Braves themselves create them, for example by trading one of our keystone combo.
Neither Escobar nor Johnson should be traded, except and only in a deal for a primo SP.
By PEPr
December 5, 2008 2:34 PM | Link to this
Great Post, DOB! Hey, All three major New York papers this morning are reporting that, given the big “Braves” offer to AJ, Cashman has met with Scott Boras and is now going hard for Derek Lowe. Additionally, he has set up a meeting with C.C. Sabathia to see if he does or does not want to be a “Yankee”.
BTW, I like KJ best; since he is a natural shortstop, it wouldn’t be such a stretch to move him back, if necessary!
Anyway, after reading the NY reports I am more optimistic about our chances for getting AJ.
By David O'Brien
December 5, 2008 2:36 PM | Link to this
Adam Dunn will win you a lot more games than Ryan Langerhans.Joe M
Well, that’s certainly a ringing endorsement, seeing how the Braves dumped Langy for a bag of balls (well, actually they traded him for enough cash to buy a few bags of balls).
By matt
December 5, 2008 2:36 PM | Link to this
Since when is Atlanta within reasonable driving distance of Baltimore ? It’s an 11 hour drive !!!
By David O'Brien
December 5, 2008 2:38 PM | Link to this
Ppaddy, even if the Braves wanted to move Kelly back to the outfield, which they don’t, how would that solve their need for another power hitter in the lineup? They’d just be moving Kelly’s power to LF and putting very little power at 2B, if you’re talking about Prado there.
Another way of looking at it: They would, in effect, be getting a Prado to fill their need for a power-hitting, run-producing OF.
By Robby
December 5, 2008 2:38 PM | Link to this
I do not expect AJ to sign with the Braves. I also do not expect Peavy to be traded to the Braves. I do expect Jurrjens to be our ace and Vazquez to be our number 2. Then fill it in with rookies. We are not getting these pitchers and I certainly hope they do not over pay for another injury waiting to happen.
By ernesto
December 5, 2008 2:39 PM | Link to this
Though Keith Whitley is also a dead singer, he died of a different thing and sang different songs.
By Marty
December 5, 2008 2:40 PM | Link to this
Thundersticks - My mistake. Escobar-for-Kemp seems like it would be more fair to both sides, but I don’t know whether the Dodgers would do it. I’d hate to give up Yunel for anything other than Peavy, but Kemp is a tremendous talent.
McFann - Yeah, it is similar to that previous discussion. Also in the same vein was the suggestion someone made yesterday or the day before about Soriano returning to the rotation. Interesting idea, but I’m not sure if it’s even possible at this point…
By Ronald Millsaps
December 5, 2008 2:42 PM | Link to this
Terence Moore wrote an excellent article concerning the Vasquez acquisition—particularly the last sentence in his next-to-last paragraph, where he spoke of a starter’s innings accumulated in a game signified competitiveness by the time he was pulled.
In addition, yes, the longer he pitches the less the bullpen has to be used, and the FRESHER the bullpen is once it is used.
I’m optimistic that the Braves will sign A.J. Burnett. I just have a good feeling about this one. The Braves’ recent struggles are outweighed by this team’s class, professionalism, and commitment to winning, and Burnett knows that.
So does Adam Dunn. I would pursue him frenetically and forget about Ryan Ludwick, who I’m skeptical of. Even if I weren’t skeptical of him, I’d be against trading Kelly Johnson or Yunel Escobar for him, as doing so would alter this team’s chemistry. (The team has hitter after hitter; Dunn would provide the slugging we need.)
Very good picture of Bobby in the Vazquez photo.
By GM
December 5, 2008 2:42 PM | Link to this
“Martin Prado will never be the hitter Johnson is…” DOB - I have nothing but the utmost respect for you and your insightful/thorough articles, but I don’t share your sentiment on this one. Martin Prado over a very short span (329 AB’s) has a .307 average, 5 hr’s, & 33 RBI’s. Also, he is a 2B by trade and plays very solid defense. Kelly Johnson is a VERY streaky hitter who is an outfielder playing 2B. His overall numbers career….average .273, 37 HR’s, & 177 RBI’s over 1358 AB’s. I believe given the same opportunity, that Martin would be a much better overall 2B than Johnson. The perfect tradeoff would be to move Kelly to left field (if we don’t get an outfielder) and let him concentrate on his offense. The fact that he is playing out of position does not help his overall capabilities…just my opinion.
By hk
December 5, 2008 2:42 PM | Link to this
… nosing around some more, quite a bit of difference between football conference rankings in the Associated press data and that of the computer portion of the BCS …
… added ‘Other’ = Utah + Boise State + Ball State + BYU)
http://www.mindspring.com/~hk3/div2008a.htm
By David O'Brien
December 5, 2008 2:45 PM | Link to this
He never has ace numbers, and even his best year, 08’s numbers (W-L 18-10, ERA 4.07 and WHIP 1.34) are hardly an ace’s numbers. DCbrave
Don’t you need to take into account the teams he faced all season? He put up those stats in a division that included the Red Sox, the Yankees (down, but still with a lot of sluggers) and the AL pennant-winning Devil Rays.
By beachcomber
December 5, 2008 2:45 PM | Link to this
Kind of frustrating having to wait on the AJ but that’s how the game is played.
On the outfield situation, I heard a name from a Braves acquaintance that perhaps I missed seeing elsewhere - Delmon Young. He had to pick me up off the floor when he uttered that name. If anybody does not fit the Braves mold…
By WarEagle (Where is Tommy T)
December 5, 2008 2:48 PM | Link to this
DOB,
Does signing Burnett to a 4 year deal then preclude Atlanta from pursuing a deal for Peavy? If we sign Burnett and Towers calls begging for Escobar, shouldn’t we do the deal? Based on reports of what Wren has to spend, that is within our bounds financially.
What a powerhouse rotation that would be, especially with Hansen coming in next year.
By Wayne in UT
December 5, 2008 2:48 PM | Link to this
ernesto One of my favorite songs is KW’s “I’m Over You”.
“Can’t believe everything you read, on my face, I’m over you.”
Good words for Braves fans to Jake Peavy!
By used cars
December 5, 2008 2:49 PM | Link to this
I put Chris Whitley up there with a few other guys and groups who got no play..like the one album wonder Arc Angels and Cry of the Prophets from Chris Thomas…but do you remember his tune getting used in a GM commercial a few years ago….
By DCbrave
December 5, 2008 2:49 PM | Link to this
matt Since when is Atlanta within reasonable driving distance of Baltimore
Well, if Toronto is, so is Atlanta!
By Ronald Millsaps
December 5, 2008 2:49 PM | Link to this
Correction in my first paragraph: Vazquez*
Hit the wrong blamed key.
By Braves WIll WIn
December 5, 2008 2:52 PM | Link to this
DOB - What do you think about this? Braves go after Magglio Ordonez with a trade propsal (Or wonder if Detroit will even talk to us after Wren rapped them last year getting Jurrgens).
Or talk to Houston about the possiblity of Carlo Lee. I just wonder what Houston would ask for becuase they don’t need a SS or 2B. They need pitching and I just don’t know if headlining a package with Morton or Reyes would be enough even if you threw in some good prospects.
After saying that I think magglio would fit this team better. He has power and is a run producer. Better option than Dunn or Ludwick would be plus he has a better track record than both. I also think magglio’s homerun total will increase becasue he will see better pitches squeezed between Chipper and McCann.
3 - Chipper, 4 - Ordonez, 5 - McCann.
When you write the middle of the order out it looks fearless.
By Joe M.
December 5, 2008 2:53 PM | Link to this
Kelly Johnson is a VERY streaky hitter who is an outfielder playing 2B.
Somebody said this to Frank Wren in that chat he did and he corrected them: he is a shortstop. He played a half season in the outfield in 2005 because Gilies and Furcal were blocking him and everybody says Johnson is an outfielder. It is not true.
Kelly Johnson is a better power and OBP guy than Prado. Prado’s minor league stats are just not that epecial.
By matt
December 5, 2008 2:54 PM | Link to this
DCbrave, Toronto is closer to Baltimore than Atlanta is. Toronto is about 8 hours away, compared to 11 hours for Atlanta.
By Ronald Millsaps
December 5, 2008 2:54 PM | Link to this
Almost done: signifying*, not “signified” in my first paragraph, and a comma after “pitches” in my second paragraph.
Now I’m done.
Falcons 34, Saints 23, by the way. No surprise in the game last night; Panthers-Buccaneers should be a war.
Florida 37, Alabama 24—The two best teams in NCAA Football.
By ArkyTech
December 5, 2008 2:54 PM | Link to this
“Martin Prado will never be the hitter Johnson is,”
Huh? He already is. OK, maybe minus the power, but a better - and more consistent - hitter. I think you’re a little blinded by your fascination for KJ and his hot September, but it’s cool. I still love the blog and you give fantastic insights for us Bravos fans.
By GT
December 5, 2008 2:55 PM | Link to this
Just because the Braves are desperately in need, doesn’t make Burnett an ace. He’s not an ace and the Braves need to realize this before overspending on him, not after.
There is a difference between what may be the best available and what will actually be needed to strengthen the Braves’ rotation enough to contend for the division. Burnett falls into one category, not the other.
By WordWizardHobo
December 5, 2008 2:56 PM | Link to this
DOB,
Good answer on the Jonas brothers. I’d give up on everything American if you said “oh yeah, definitely a great rock band”. That would crush not only my spirit, but the traditions and excellence of great American rock.
Good call with the shun of them. Right call.
On a side note, ever tried Slope’s BBQ in the northern suburbs?
By Marty
December 5, 2008 2:56 PM | Link to this
GM - This has been covered in the past, but Prado is a career .307/.363/.432 hitter in the majors and a career .300/.352/.393 hitter in the minors. It is unlikely that Prado suddenly learned how to hit for power upon reaching the majors; it is more likely that if played every day, pitchers will adjust and Prado will regress to a slugging percentage around .400. If he maintains his average, that translates to a good slap hitter with little power.
Kelly is a .273/.356/.440 hitter in the majors and was a .281/.364/.464 hitter in the minors. In other words, he has performed consistently throughout his time in professional baseball. It’s reasonable to expect, then, that he will continue to do so; as a result, even if he doesn’t get better, he seems to be a virtual lock for an .800-.820 OPS, compared to the .740-.750 which Prado is likely to put up.
That potential .080 difference in OPS is a good bit.
By ppaddy123
December 5, 2008 2:56 PM | Link to this
Look people……..all I’m saying is the braves don’t have many options in LF. Moving KJ costs them nothing. NOTHING! I was one of the people suggesting they get Dunn. What will he cost? what will Ibanez cost? Anyone the Braves sign will cost them “Big Money”. Again……sometimes we need to think outside the box, as I said before. He’s played LF before. I never said he was a gold glove out there. He would probably be like having Pat Burrell in LF. What will Burrell get this year? Again……OPTIONS
By Salamander
December 5, 2008 2:57 PM | Link to this
We don’t know. But we do know Burnett wants to go to a team that has a chance to contend, and his agent said the Braves helped themselves in that regard with the trade this week for durable veteran starter Javier Vazquez.
“No question about it,” Braunecker said. “To me, for any free agent who believes winning is important, the Atlanta Braves should become a more appealing club now, because I think Javier Vazquez makes them a better club. That’s my personal opinion, and A.J. would echo those same sentiments. By all means, [Atlanta] is a more appealing situation today than it was two days ago.” DOB
Important piece of information regarding the Vazquez deal that I bet many people (including myself) failed to appreciate after the deal was announced. While Vazquez is not the ace Atlanta needs, his acquisition sends the right signals to potential free agents.
By Wayne in UT
December 5, 2008 2:57 PM | Link to this
GM Do some research next time before embarrasing yourself with your lack of baseball knowledge.
Kelly Johnson came though the system as a SS, not an outfielder. He learned LF when he came up a few years ago.
Also, Prado has only gap power, and who knows if he can repeat after only 329 AB’s. In addition, Prado has very limited range to go with his good hands defense. I would rate both players about even on 2B defense.
By ernesto
December 5, 2008 2:58 PM | Link to this
Ty Wiggington anyone? He can play corner OF or spell Chipper at 3rd.
By Daybed Wagmoe
December 5, 2008 2:58 PM | Link to this
Dan (at 2:00pm) — No, it’s Chris Whitley. Here’s a youtube video of the song: Chris Whitley - Living With the Law He’s got some great music.
Also, Jason Heyward is the number 3 prospect on the MLB.com Top 50 Prospects list, coming in behind David Price and Matt Wieters. How has that not been mentioned here yet?!? Tommy Hanson came in at no. 24, and Freddie Freeman came in at no. 38.
I’m getting really excited about these kids coming up and becoming major league players. I think that in about 3-5 years, the Braves will once again be a force in the NL East — Heyward, Hanson, Freeman, McCann, Francouer, Escobar, Jurrjens, Schaefer, Gorkys…it’ll be a question of how many of those players are still with Atlanta, but if a lot of those players can make up a core, I would think we’ll have a strong chance at the playoffs.
By sooner
December 5, 2008 3:00 PM | Link to this
Frank Wren was on 790 this morning and when asked about moving KJ to left field he replied…..”No.” So I hope that ends that discussion.
By Graham
December 5, 2008 3:01 PM | Link to this
We’ve been walkin’ the tightrope tryin’ to make it right Walkin’ the tightrope every day and every night Walkin’ the tightrope bring it all around Walkin’ the tightrope from the lost to found
By ernesto
December 5, 2008 3:03 PM | Link to this
Ronnie Millsaps, dude don’t beat yourself up, I mean you’re blind, it’s amazing you type so well in the first place.
By Telemachus
December 5, 2008 3:04 PM | Link to this
would the braves have any interest in corey hart as their OF acquisition? I can see the Brewers interested in a number of Braves assets like: Johnson, Soriano, Gonzalez, or a pitching prospect like Morton.
By DAP
December 5, 2008 3:05 PM | Link to this
GM kelly johnson is not a converted outfielder, prado is not that much better defensively, and his small number of PA (which you pointed out) is exactly why most people dont assume he is a .300 hitter at the major league level.
By Don't Trade Franceour, Sheesh
December 5, 2008 3:06 PM | Link to this
SHE WON’T FLY!?
Uhhh……..it’s 2009, right? Planes have a lower mortality rate than any other form of transportation! Wow, seriously? Can the Braves not catch a break?!
Also, I get the distinct impression that Wren is not really even looking for an OF, RH bat. Not criticizing, just is the vibe I’m getting from him. Obviously that isn’t a huge priority, but still…27 homers all season? Doesn’t really matter who’s pitching if you don’t score.
By DCbrave
December 5, 2008 3:07 PM | Link to this
DOB- Don’t you need to take into account the teams he faced all season? He put up those stats in a division that included the Red Sox, the Yankees (down, but still with a lot of sluggers) and the AL pennant-winning Devil Rays
Hi DOB, yes, you do, and I did. Against the same AL east teams, Holladay has an ERA of 2.78, a WHIP of 1.05 (now THAT’s an ace’s numbers); Marcum has an ERA of 3.39 and a WHIP of 1.16; Kazmir an ERA of 3.49 and a WHIP of 1.27; and Shields an ERA of 3.56 and a WHIP of 1.15. Regardless of which divison a team is in, if your ace’s ERA is above 4, there is not much to say about your rotation unless one or more of your #2-5 have better numbers. In Burnett’s case, it is his track record that says more.
By Tony C.
December 5, 2008 3:07 PM | Link to this
DOB-
Any chance the rumor about the Braves asking about Maglio Ordonez?
By glorydays
December 5, 2008 3:08 PM | Link to this
DOB What pitchers come to mind that are not aces, but solid #2 or #3 pitchers that could be available, or young pithers unproven but good but limited MLB experience (JJ) that the Braves may be considering?
By Wayne in UT
December 5, 2008 3:09 PM | Link to this
Daybed It’s gonna be exciting watching those youngsters develop.
By car3boogie
December 5, 2008 3:09 PM | Link to this
Are the Braves Obligated in anyway to the offer made to AJ. Just for Kicks the Peavy deal goes thru and then AJ decides to Accept the offer. What happens? if anything
By Crazy Z
December 5, 2008 3:10 PM | Link to this
The Braves would be crazy to trade Yunel Escobar for an outfielder. The Braves have young stud outfielders in the minor leagues that will be just as good as or better than Kemp. However, They have absolutely no depth at shortstop. If any infielder is traded for an outfielder it will be Kelly.
And I sure hope Burnett signs soon…..the waiting is killing me.
By Eric
December 5, 2008 3:10 PM | Link to this
DOB got a new band for you. Two of the guys are friends from high school. Check out the Parlor Mob. Can’t Keep Keep No Good Boy Down is a great song
By DCbrave
December 5, 2008 3:11 PM | Link to this
matt- DCbrave, Toronto is closer to Baltimore than Atlanta is. Toronto is about 8 hours away, compared to 11 hours for Atlanta
I thought we were talking about driving range! Never mine, Just kidding anyway.
By Efrim
December 5, 2008 3:11 PM | Link to this
To further Daybed Wagmoe’s post at 2:58, here was MiLB’s Top 10 they released today:
David Price
Matt Wieters
Jason Heyward
Rick Porcello
Cameron Maybin
Madison Bumgarner
Travis Snider
Alcides Escobar
Neftali Feliz
Colby Rasmus
By TennesseePaul
December 5, 2008 3:12 PM | Link to this
Just got off the phone with Towers. He’s not fretting over missing out on the Braves offer. He said Peavy could easily be dealt to the Pirates if they can pull in 7 other teams to get the parts they need. He said the Braves deal fell through because he wasn’t sure Peavy would be comfortable pitching in a red uniform on Sunday home games and Peavy could produce a bovineophobia complex. Also said the beer prices are bit too steep for Peavy’s liking and said Peavy thought the visiting GM’s box had uncomfortable seats.
By ppaddy123
December 5, 2008 3:13 PM | Link to this
DOB you made the point with the original post. There really isn’t a market for LF. I’m not sold on Ludwick. I think he is a Pujols illusion. I mean really, would any of us trade a guy that just hit 37 dingers for a guy that is MAYBE going to be a good hitter? Ludwick has warning signs all over him. And yeah, you’re right. We won’t add a bat to the lineup. But KJ and Diaz would be pretty good in LF. I just feel it is an option. Throwing money at the problem doesn’t always solve the problem. Wren has said he wanted to put together a good TEAM. I don’t see where the free agents available for LF are worth the money they will be paid.
By SEM
December 5, 2008 3:13 PM | Link to this
DOB, if Towers suddenly calls the Braves and a trade goes through for Peavy, what would that do to the Braves thinking about finding a power-hitting, run-producing outfielder. That is, would such a trade make it more likely they would then go after a free agent outfielder rather than pursue a trade for one? Or, would it not really have an impact on their thinking? Thanks.
By Ronald Millsaps
December 5, 2008 3:14 PM | Link to this
“ernesto”—Well, the man’s blind. Not something to be making light of.
If the Braves can’t get Dunn, I’d go after Burrell and put him at first. I’d put Prado at second and Johnson in left.
Something to consider, indeed. I’d definitely pursue Dunn.
Time to log out.
By ernesto
December 5, 2008 3:14 PM | Link to this
Wiggington, only about 4 mill a year I think, a little over 20 HR a year, decent slug % and OBP…3B and OF…wrote his own Wikipage (poorly)…I’m just saying…
By Random
December 5, 2008 3:14 PM | Link to this
Wayne in UT: “Correct me if I am mistaken, but I thought that Peavy identified teams he would come to in a trade, and I thought Atlanta was one of those teams… . How in good conscious could hee turn down a trade to a team HE listed?”
From what I’ve read here (and maybe elsewhere), Peavy, Peavy’s agent and Towers are “thick as thieves”. I believe Peavy’s agent was formerly Towers’ agent. They may all be in “cahoots”.
What if Peavy never even ever intended to go to Atlanta? What if they included Atlanta (and a couple more “straw” teams) on Peavy’s “list” solely to up the ante to the Cubs? To drive up the Cubs’ offer for Peavy, which they could not have done if only the Cubs (and a couple of bare-cupboard dummy teams) had been listed.
The whole league knows that Atlanta is loaded with talented prospects; the whole league knows what Atlanta’s glaring needs are (no, Wren did not “spill the beans” by publicly announcing his off-season goals — they should have been fairly obvious to any casual observer).
Yeah, yeah, I know — they were probably sitting on the grassy knoll when they cooked up this conspiracy. But so much of what Towers has been babbling seems in retrospect to have been scripted beforehand — especially his harping on the Braves’ no trade clause policy in the face of reason and contradictory evidence. This was their “out” — their pre-meditated explanation of why Peavy was going to the Cubs for a slightly lesser package than what the Braves would offer (but much higher than what they could have gotten from the Cubs if the Braves were not in competition for Peavy).
By nitram odarp
December 5, 2008 3:15 PM | Link to this
dont sell out on KJ yet. good swing, strong work ethic he will succeed maybe not an uggla or an utley dont trade him for the Ludwig keep him
By ernesto
December 5, 2008 3:15 PM | Link to this
Wiggington also bats R.
By DAP
December 5, 2008 3:16 PM | Link to this
id be ok with ty wigginton. MLB trade rumors says he on the block. im sure wren has or will look into it.
By geauxbraves2000
December 5, 2008 3:16 PM | Link to this
Since when is Atlanta within reasonable driving distance of Baltimore matt
Well, if Toronto is, so is Atlanta! DCbrave
Just a quick 11 1/2 hr trip.
Geaux Braves!!
By cabravesfan
December 5, 2008 3:16 PM | Link to this
Don’t Trade Franceour, Sheesh
Don’t knock those of us that don’t like to fly (I do it only when absolutly necessary)- logic plays very little role in the matter
By TennesseePaul
December 5, 2008 3:17 PM | Link to this
Heyward, Hanson, Freeman, McCann, Francouer, Escobar, Jurrjens, Schaefer, Gorkys…it’ll be a question of how many of those players are still with Atlanta
Of those players I wouldn’t be surprised to see one of Gorkys or Schafer moved over the next few years. That’s two guys playing in one spot. Francoeur could also be gone, especially if 2009 looks anything like 2008. And if he leaves, maybe both Gorkys and Schafer stay. There is time to see though as Schafer will probably be in Atlanta next season and Gorkys is still far down the ladder.
By Nathan
December 5, 2008 3:17 PM | Link to this
Well, since Burnett wants to play somewhere close to Baltimore I guess you can count Atlanta out. Since Burnett is out of the picture, the Braves need to go after Peavy.
By stynes
December 5, 2008 3:18 PM | Link to this
DOB - I was watching Buster Olney last night on ESPN. He said the Peavy-Atlanta talks were “virtually” dead (I don’t remember the exact qualifier - there was a qualifier - but the word was “dead”). The reason he cited was because Atlanta was unwilling to accept the no-trade clause and Peavy was unwilling to waive it. In reading some of the info here previously, I had the understanding that the talks hadn’t gotten that specific and Peavy had never been asked to waive the clause. Has that changed or do we just not know? Is that just Olney’s speculation or what? I wasn’t sure what to make of your earlier comment re: the no-trade clause.
By DAP
December 5, 2008 3:24 PM | Link to this
ppaddy123 I’m not sold on Ludwick. I think he is a Pujols illusion.
what does this mean, paddy?
By Derrick
December 5, 2008 3:25 PM | Link to this
I’m completely against the idea of trading Escobar whatsoever, and apparently Peavy even knows how great of a shortstop he is and will have plenty of time to improve over the years. I’d rather see Kelly Johnson go than Escobar.
I’d also rather see Peavy than Burnett, but either way, we are going to be a much-improved ball-club.
Trade Kelly for pitching depth. Go get a Left fielder. Ludwick, perhaps? Maybe Carlos Lee if possible? Burrell? Bradley? — any of these players would be of immense help for our poor outfield.
By the way, check out my art:
www.flickr.com/photos/derricksphotos
By Evan
December 5, 2008 3:25 PM | Link to this
DOB, thanks for posting those comments from Burnett’s agent. It’s good to hear what’s going on from their side of the deal, even if he was somewhat close off about it (of course, he has to be).
On another note, I can’t help but notice we have a very similar taste in music and was wondering if you’ve ever heard the band Mother Mother. They’re based out of Vancouver. I just bought their album “O my heart,” and it might be my favorite album of the year. Do you know of them?
By GT
December 5, 2008 3:27 PM | Link to this
I would contend the biggest disappointment so far this offesaon is Tazawa signing with Boston.
By Wayne in UT
December 5, 2008 3:28 PM | Link to this
Random Very plausible explanation. I guess maybe I have been naive thinking/hoping we could get a true ace, versus just a #1 slotted starter.
(big difference between an ACE and a #1)
All aces are #1’s (well, unless you are the 1990 Braves), but not all #1’s are aces. Probably less than 10 aces in the major leagues right now.
By NickC
December 5, 2008 3:28 PM | Link to this
stynes, it just seems like speculation.
Barry Axelrod said that he hadn’t been given any offer to take to Peavy.
Seems to me that Towers is trying to make it be known that’s why talks broke down, not that he screwed up. Same thing can be said for all the “Well, he probably didn’t want to go to the Braves” stories that cropped up at the time we walked away too.
By Evan
December 5, 2008 3:28 PM | Link to this
Efrim, thanks for posting the MiLB top ten.
Not to be a downer, but as exciting as it is to see Heyward listed as #3, it sure hurts to see Neftali Perez on that list as #9. Wasn’t he a virtual throw in for that Tex deal?
By Joe M.
December 5, 2008 3:28 PM | Link to this
but a better - and more consistent - hitter.
No, Prado is not better. Consistent? Consistently worse maybe. Seriously; stop listening to Joe Simpson’s rants. Consistency doesn’t mean much of anything. I’d take a, at the end of a full season, .300/.400/.500 with 30 homeruns hitter no matter HOW profound his hot and cold streaks.
Also, how is Prado a good defender? Nothing in his defensive stats says he is. I guess to most fans; defense really is more reputation than reality. People still say Jeter is a good defender, for cryin’ out loud.
By Arkansas Braves Fan
December 5, 2008 3:28 PM | Link to this
All this great talk about Kelly Johnson is silly, good hitter, but a freaking liability at 2nd base. Everything he does well as hitter is overshadowed by his inability to catch a routine pop up. Escobar over KJ anyday. Any baseball scout will tell you that, Ludwick for KJ is not a bad deal for the braves, Ludwick drove in over a 100 last year, prado can play 2nd, get francouer going again and we would have a decent outfield.
By McFann O –[zzz]
December 5, 2008 3:29 PM | Link to this
Marty—
Soriano to the rotation? Ha! I didn’t see that one. Yeah, that’s int’resting, but seems like he’s more of a bullpen dude now, uh…when he’s healthy.
By BamaBravesFan
December 5, 2008 3:34 PM | Link to this
DOB
Great blog as usual. Really hoping that we can get Burnett sooner than later.
Wanted to let you know that b/c of your rave reviews of The Shield, I have since gotten the first season via Netflix and am currently watching it. It’s one of those shows I never thought to watch, and I can say I’m definitely hooked now. Hopefully by the time I’m through all of the current seasons that are out on DVD, this last season will come out.
ROLL TIDE!!
By KJ
December 5, 2008 3:37 PM | Link to this
“One frickin’ dropped pop-up at a most inopportune time, and they will never forget!” KJ
By Marty
December 5, 2008 3:39 PM | Link to this
Arkansas Braves Fan - I was as mad as anyone about that dropped popup, but we can’t let one or two particularly bad plays color our judgment of a particular player. You have to look at the player’s entire body of work, and that shows that Kelly is currently about an average 2B defensively with above-average range.
GT - Tazawa is not even going to pitch in the majors this season, and some of the scouting reports I’ve seen on him say that he may not be good enough to pitch well in the majors at all.
By Efrim
December 5, 2008 3:41 PM | Link to this
Evan, I was rather suprised to see Porcello as high as #4. It doesn’t suprise me to see Feliz at #9. One of the quotes from a scout on Feliz:
“The amazing thing is it looks like he’s playing catch while throwing 98 mph. He makes it look easy, with a very clean arm action. That looks good for his future in terms of injury concerns. There may be even more projection in Neftali as well. We can only see great things from him in the future.” — Rangers Director of Minor League Operations John Lombardo
I don’t think Feliz was a throw in. Harrison was listed #3 in the Braves top ten that year, but most everyone knew that Feliz had a higher ceiling. I think he just progressed quicker than most people thought. Now the Rangers have Feliz and Holland to get excited about. But we have Hanson and Rohrbough to get excited about, so it’s cool.
By ppaddy123
December 5, 2008 3:42 PM | Link to this
By DAP December 5, 2008 3:24 PM | Link to this ppaddy123 I’m not sold on Ludwick. I think he is a Pujols illusion. what does this mean, paddy?
Pujols makes everyone that hits near him in the lineup a better hitter
By fleming
December 5, 2008 3:43 PM | Link to this
Since there’s not enough auguring going on today about Vazquez potential with the Braves, thought I would inject another thought about his 200+ innings pitched. Anyone believe that playing in the AL with a designated hitter and not getting pulled for pinch hitter in tight ballgames added to his innings pitched per season total.
By GM
December 5, 2008 3:43 PM | Link to this
Wow! I never thought I would get so many pro-Kelly Johnson(s) at 2B. I wasn’t trashing the guy, and yes Wayne in UT I do know that Kelly played SS in the minors. I am still not backing down from my point, he is an OUTFIELDER playing 2B. If the Braves thought so much of him as in fielder, then why in the hell did they bring him up and put him in the OUTFIELD? Please don’t tell me that it’s because we had Marcus Giles there. I just feel that in order to get the most potential from this guy, he shouldn’t be playing that position. I also believe that if the Braves cannot get a player to fill the left field position, we would be better served having him play or platoon in LF…again, just my opinion.
By ernesto
December 5, 2008 3:44 PM | Link to this
Bama Braves Fan - hell yeah, Roll Tide!
By f.n. hale
December 5, 2008 3:47 PM | Link to this
DOB, wasn’t familiar with Chris Whitley. I thought he might be a brother of Keith. I knew Keith had a brother die but that was much earlier and I think, from suicide. Researched Chris and thought you and others might get a chuckle from a Rolling Stone description; “picks like a p** off Doc Watson jacked through a Marshall stack” Pretty danged descriptive, I’d say.
Marty, I agree completely with your take on moving KJ to left, but man, the pickin’s are slim for left unless we trade. Not sure I wouldn’t rather do that than trade for Ludwick, but that puts a lot of pressure for Frenchy to rebound. Unless we got 20-25 from him, 20 from KJ and 15 from Schaefer we’d be hurting no matter who is in the rotation
McFann, what’s your take on the new BUC? I’m hopeful, but would still like to see some young stud there with a chance to have some meaningful at bats. Not meant to be a criticism, but Bobby seems to lean more and more on his front line players as his time draws to an end. Love the Heapster, but worry for his longevity.
By Joe M.
December 5, 2008 3:49 PM | Link to this
Ludwick for KJ is not a bad deal for the braves, Ludwick drove in over a 100 last year
Yes, it is. If it was such a good deal, the Braves would have already done it and not demanded more. Ludwick may have drove in 100 last year (RBIs again, really?), but he is over 30 and, again, has had one good season in his entire career. Not worth it.
Also, thanks for proving my point about defense being reputation-based. Still harping over one damn play. We could have been an 89 loss team instead! Humans tend to remember the extraordinary over the ordinary.
By flange1
December 5, 2008 3:50 PM | Link to this
Efrim,
I have been trying to set up minor league rotations for the Braves.
Who do you think will be in AAA, AA and A?
Want to see how my guess work compares to you knowledge!
By David O'Brien
December 5, 2008 3:50 PM | Link to this
Evan, have not heard of that band. Will seek to evaluate….
Stynes, I’m told it never got to the point of the Braves even being asked if they’d grant a no-trade clause. And frankly, I don’t think that’s a deal-breaker in this, at all. I think if Wren had to, he’d do that (but don’t know for sure).
By houseofbravestalk
December 5, 2008 3:54 PM | Link to this
DOB - getting to your comment about the red flags with Escobar’s temper and attitude. Do you hear any (or have any yourself, based on your experience with him) concerns about him in ‘09 if he doesn’t get traded? That was a lot of weeks to see your name in the papers…
By Marty
December 5, 2008 3:55 PM | Link to this
GM - Kelly did not play LF for the Braves in 2005 because we had Giles at second. He played LF for the Braves in 2005 because we had a need for a hitter, we had a need in LF specifically, and Furcal was solidly entrenched at SS. Kelly never played OF in the minors until 2004, when it had become clear that he was a good enough hitter to make the majors but the combination of his below-average defense at SS and the fact that he was blocked by Furcal made a position change necessary. I actually remember that Cox even said at the time (in 2005) that the move to LF was temporary!
Mostly, though, it’s like DOB said — moving Kelly to LF in order to get Prado into the lineup does not address any of the Braves’ needs. They need someone with power. Prado has never had power and never will (15 HR and .393 SLG in 1,920 career minor league AB; 3 HR and .432 SLG in 329 career ML AB).
By Anders
December 5, 2008 3:56 PM | Link to this
Fkeming
Anyone believe that playing in the AL with a designated hitter and not getting pulled for pinch hitter in tight ballgames added to his innings pitched per season total.
I do. You’ve stumbled upon the secret of having middle of the road pitchers in the AL. In addition to what you’ve stated above it’s more likely that a pitcher who’s behind let’s say 4-1 in the 5th would get lifted for a pinch hitter in the NL, but in the AL if he’s settled down they will ride him for another inning or two. Over the whole season I don’t think it adds more than maybe 20 innings at best (purely speculation on my part) but it does add some.
By cityofdecatur
December 5, 2008 3:56 PM | Link to this
Dang glad you brought up Delbert got 4 of his lps listed on eBay at this very moment. lol saw him at the coley’s Electric Ballroom in 77 or 78 on a weeknight and only about 60 people showed and we had one hellava private party. Believe that what Delbert called it. Dancin music heck i’m still married to the gal i took to the show. bid on them albums folks i’m out of work since nov 1st. Keep up the good work DOB and we be BBQin’ in Oakhurst this week end follow your nose and stop in for some smoked pork loins. just don’t tell my rabbi. enjoy everybodies comments and opinions. I enjoy my baseball but more opinionated about my BBQ and music. lastly thanks for turnin me on to Lucinda.
By Marc
December 5, 2008 3:56 PM | Link to this
We still don’t have any lefties on the radar? I mean I guess you could start a season with no left handed starters, but certain line-ups are going to give you problems all year long. What condition is Capuano in? I notice he didn’t play last year, but honestly don’t know why (surgery I’d assume?).
Prado’s a good defensive player? I know stats are baseball, but I watch him play and close my eyes anytime the ball heads his way. Take advantage of his good offensive numbers last year and trade him for an A-ball pitching prospect IMO. We have infante and Gotay for back-ups.
I still say Alex Rios our best bet for a LF without breaking the bank or farm.
We can’t trade Escobar, we just can’t. We gave up Andrus and would be stupd to give up Escobar as well considering the time it takes to get a SS through the minors. If you actually look at his numbers he was one of our best hitters last year and is a great defensive player. I’m not leaving that duty to the decaying Furcal, you gotta keep Escobar.
By DAP
December 5, 2008 3:57 PM | Link to this
ppaddy123 By DAP December 5, 2008 3:24 PM | Link to this ppaddy123 I’m not sold on Ludwick. I think he is a Pujols illusion. what does this mean, paddy?
Pujols makes everyone that hits near him in the lineup a better hitter
i thought that might be it. dont you think that if ludwick’s impressive season this year was because he batted cleanup behind pujols most of the year, that he could have another impressive season batting cleanup behind chipper jones, who is a very similar hitter, for a year?
if ludwick is a pujols illusion, i dont really think there is a reason to worry. weve got chipper.
GM he [johnson] is an OUTFIELDER playing 2B.
no, GM, he isnt. sorry, man. this statement has been disputed by the REAL braves GM himself. kelly johnson has played 2B in the major leagues for 2 years. johnson is a major leauge 2nd baseman, not an outfielder. that is a fact. do we still call rick ankiel a pitcher? no. do we still call francouer a safetey? no. they are not those things, just like johnson is not an outfielder.
By ncscoots
December 5, 2008 3:57 PM | Link to this
then why in the hell did they bring him up and put him in the OUTFIELD? Please don’t tell me that it’s because we had Marcus Giles there
No, I imagine it was because of Giles’ .291/.365/.461 line at the time. 100+ runs, 45 doubles, little things like that. Regardless of what bottle they came from.
By Steve from OH
December 5, 2008 3:58 PM | Link to this
Efrim, I was surprised to see Porcello so high, too…especially ahead of Bumgarner.
Evan-I think Beau Jones was the “throw-in.” I know we’ve got Rohrbough and Locke to soften the blow of his loss, but I’m still a little peaved that JS gave in and added another player at the last minute. I agree with Efrim, Feliz was more important to them than Harrison. I wasn’t too terribly upset to lose him. We’ve got enough #5 starters in the minors/AAAA right now anyway.
By James Munson
December 5, 2008 3:59 PM | Link to this
DOB, you stated in an earlier blog that the Braves would not sign Burnett and trade for Peavy, but why not? Imagine a rotation of Peavy, Burnett, Jurrjens, Vazquez, and Morton/Campillo/Reyes. I understand that it would cause a clutter in 2010 with Hudson and Hanson being in the mix, but that could be a good problem to have. Of the $40 million we had coming into the offseason, $11 mil is gone to Javy, lets say $17 mil for Burnett, and the $12 mil for Peavy. Thats exactly how much we have to spend.Yes, we wouldnt have any money for the bat, but we could trade a couple more prospects for a bat. Although, that would cause a hole at ss……Ok, what about sign Burnett or trade for Peavy, then sign Manny for the outfield. I know this has come up, but he is what we are looking for! Righthanded power bat. Hes not as bad in LF as some options.
By Wayne in UT
December 5, 2008 3:59 PM | Link to this
GM You are right, it is your opinion and your are entitled to it.
BUT, Frank Wren calls him a converted SS, and DOB I believe concurs. He was not a good LF’er a few years back, and YES, Marcus Giles was not in total full decline yet when Kelly was called up.
So, putting Kelly in left field essentially adds a slap hitter to the lineup (Kelly IS going play if he is on the team) in Prado. Personally, I would prefer a combo of Matt Diaz and anybody else over Martin Prado. Go and look at Diaz’ splits against righties and lefties.
Personally, I think we are getting hung up on left field way too early. FW himself has admitted that it is a much lesser concern than starting pitching.
As many of the pundits are predicting, I suspect that the price on some of the available outfielders will come down over the next 6-8 weeks.
Patience, my friend. Adding Martin Prado to the lineup is not what is needed for a run producer.
By AJK
December 5, 2008 3:59 PM | Link to this
DOB: Is Milton Bradley on the Braves radar to fill the power-hititng OF spot, or does his attitude just make the Braves weary? How about Rocco Baldeli - I know we were reportedly close to trading for him a coule of years ago. Injury problems scare us off now?
By keylargo
December 5, 2008 4:07 PM | Link to this
cabravesfan
Don’t knock those of us that don’t like to fly (I do it only when absolutly necessary)- logic plays very little role in the matterCAbravesfan
Probably the most rewarding thing I have ever accomplished is working for and earning my Commercial Pilot’s License.
Have you ever considered taking flying lessons (yes, you flying with an instructor) to overcome your issues with flying?
By ppaddy123
December 5, 2008 4:09 PM | Link to this
By DAP December 5, 2008 3:57 PM |if ludwick is a pujols illusion, i dont really think there is a reason to worry. weve got chipper.
Chipper is not, right now in his career, the same hitter as Pujols. NOT EVEN CLOSE!
By stynes
December 5, 2008 4:09 PM | Link to this
Thanks, DOB. That’s what I’d heard previously - both here and elsewhere. Which is why Olney’s comments kinda surprised me. I just wanted to make sure I hadn’t misunderstood something. Thanks!
By flange1
December 5, 2008 4:10 PM | Link to this
Hey ‘scoots,
There was the first Baldelli reference. Can the Carl Crawford posts be far behind?
I know that Wayne is still pushing for Ryan Freel..
And lets not forget our favorite Angel Chone Figgins.
I know how much you love seeing all of these names and seeing them together!!!
JOY FOR ALL!!! HA!
By dwaynerice
December 5, 2008 4:11 PM | Link to this
DOB,
I wrote late last night, don’t know if you got a chance to answer, but apparently the previous blog crashed and I cannot access it. Just asked about Jeff’s ankle/foot that bothered him of the season and if it necessitated surgery and if you knew how he was doing from that. Much obliged. Thanks, David
By Joe M.
December 5, 2008 4:14 PM | Link to this
NY Post
” As for A.J. Burnett, the Braves are poised to increase a four-year, $60 million offer with a vesting option for the fifth season to a fully guaranteed five-year, $75 million deal.
The Yankees have been reluctant to go past four years for Burnett.”
By DAP
December 5, 2008 4:14 PM | Link to this
marc I still say Alex Rios our best bet for a LF without breaking the bank or farm.
go check out rios’ contract and stats, then reconsider.
By Wayne in UT
December 5, 2008 4:15 PM | Link to this
Anders and Fleming
You have a good point about not needing to PH for the pitcher. What I think ends up evening that out somewhat is that in the NL, the pitcher has one less true hitter to face (DH) than in the AL. I suspect that those two factors somehow come close to evening out a bit.
By ppaddy123
December 5, 2008 4:16 PM | Link to this
For everyone knocking the move of KJ…..it’s just an idea……a suggestion based on the apparent athletic ability KJ has. I keep thinking about Craig Biggio and how many different positions he played during his career. He started, I believe, as a catcher, then moved to 2nd. He later moved to CF and did a pretty good job out there.
By Marty
December 5, 2008 4:17 PM | Link to this
Marc - How would we be able to obtain Alex Rios “without breaking the bank or farm”? He’s currently signed through 2014 for almost $70MM guaranteed. I also don’t see why the Jays would trade a guy with whom they just worked out a 6-year, $70MM extension about 8 months ago.
By Rick Long
December 5, 2008 4:18 PM | Link to this
I repeat Wren is making two major mistakes. First, making this type of offer to Burnett in the first instance. Second, and more importantly, sitting back to wait to see if he accepts, particularly when his agent says he is sifting through a number of offers.
The Braves should rekindle trade talks for Peavy early next week at the meetings and if something is promising, make that deal and forget about Burnett.
By brian
December 5, 2008 4:18 PM | Link to this
any chance the Tigers would move one of their pitchers such as Verlander for Escobar since they are looking for a low cost replacement at SS
By Efrim
December 5, 2008 4:21 PM | Link to this
Flange1
Eeesh. That’s tough man, but okay, I’ll give it a shot. Let’s assume Burnett, Vasquez, Jurrjens, Campillo and Morton break camp as the Braves 1-5(obviously, Hanson and/or Reyes could slide into those 4/5 spots):
AAA: Hanson, Reyes, Parr, Redmond, Medlen
AA: Heath, Diamond, Cofield, Venters, Lyman
A+: Rohrbough, Locke, Cordier, Rodgers, Osuna
A: Delgado, Thompson, Francis, Clemens, Kent
Rookie: Teheran, Devall, Spruill, Stovall, Oberholtzer
Best guess on all of that…..
By Davey Johnson's Locker
December 5, 2008 4:22 PM | Link to this
Nice blog, DOB. Let us hope AJ says yes next week…
1.AJ 2.Jurjens 3.Vazquez 4.Campillo/Parr 5.Glavine/Hanson
Relief: Bennett Ohman Logan/Acosta Moylan/Julio Soriano Gonzo
Lineup:
1.Escobar 2.Prado 3.C.Jones 4.Ludwick 5.McCann 6.Francoeur 7.Kotchman 8.Schafer/Anderson/Blanco
Bench: Infante Norton Ross Anderson Blanco
Makes a pretty good team! I’d say trade Gotay away…
By Marty
December 5, 2008 4:22 PM | Link to this
flange1 - Please, God, no Carl Crawford. I mean, the other guys you mentioned go without saying, but some people still cling to the idea that Crawford isn’t a terribly overrated player who posted a .719 OPS as an outfielder last year. At some point, the Rays will tire of waiting for him to realize his full potential and will trade him to some sucker. God, I hope that we are not that sucker (although I have faith that we will not be).
By cabravesfan
December 5, 2008 4:25 PM | Link to this
keylargo
While I envy those who fly planes (I really do- I think it would be awsome) I have yet to be able to bring myself seriously consider that- just thinking about it freaks me out…
On a baseball related note- anyone else see that, according to Yahoo sports, Greg Maddux is going to announce his official retirement on Monday?
By DAP
December 5, 2008 4:32 PM | Link to this
ppaddy Chipper is not, right now in his career, the same hitter as Pujols. NOT EVEN CLOSE!
hes as close as anybody.
could we say that chipper is 4/5 of the player pujols is? would that mean that ludwick would perform at 4/5 what he did last year…which would still be great.
my point is, if ludwicks performance is dictated by who is in the order, hes not going to turn into juan pierre batting behing chipper instead of pujols, ok?
By flange1
December 5, 2008 4:33 PM | Link to this
Efrim,
As usual great post! I am with you on AAA. I was “hoping” that the Braves could stretch Rohrbough and or Locke to AA.
But you told me exactly what I expected!
Marty,
The Figgins/Freel/Crawford/Baldelli stuff is something that started here a couple of years back.
There was major talk of trying to pick up these guys.
It is now a joke, ncscoots in particular, does not like to hear those names any more!
So not really suggesting any of the above players for the Braves…
By Robbie T
December 5, 2008 4:34 PM | Link to this
Jeff Francoeurs problem is not his ankle and foot.Its his knowledge of the strike zone and inability to distinguish between a fastball and a slider.
By THE BEAR
December 5, 2008 4:37 PM | Link to this
How many times last year did we pray for a SINGLE when we had RISP? We lost twenty something one run games, many of which could have been won with a single but we got K’s or DP’s instead. I like HR’s as much as anyone but it is easy to fall into that trap of thinking 25 big flies are better than 50 singles and doubles with RISP.
As for AJ, I was living in South Florida when AJ was toiling for the Marlins along with Josh Beckett. (I still live in Florida) AJ was good but not an ACE and he is still not an ACE. However I am not as sure we need an ACE as much as we need a collection of pitchers who can keep their team in the hunt for a victory that night. A win by one run is just as good as a shutout.
AJ will be a big upgrade for the Braves but he is NO ACE. And so will Javy be an asset because he will give up 4 runs a game and the Braves should have a chance to win his games.
Jurrjens is the real deal and will only get better. Hanson is going to be a horse and could easily be at the top of the rotation by this time next year. I think he is that good.
The future for the Braves looks good but let’s not get hung up over the idea that we must have an ACE. I think Wren has played Towers just right. While Peavy is truly an ACE he is not worth the additional 3-4 wins he will give us over AJ if he costs us all those key players as well as the additional $12 mil it will cost to buy Furcal.
AS for LF, go buy one, don’t give up a valuable property such as KJ who is going to show us all what he is made of in 09. I think he could hit .290 and 25 big flies next year and we will all be happy we have him except for that one guy who can’t forget him dropping that popup.
By jhughes
December 5, 2008 4:38 PM | Link to this
DOB the fact that there are no lefties in our starting rotation besides possibly jo jo leads me to believe there is a very good chance glavine will be back. what do you think? have you heard anything along those lines or does the team feel comfortable with jo jo as their only viable lefty starter?
By Steve from OH
December 5, 2008 4:38 PM | Link to this
Efrim, that’s a good list, but I wouldn’t be surprised if JJ Hoover slid into the Danville rotation in place of either Spruill or Stovall (probably the latter). Maybe even DeVall, depeding if they’ve felt that he’s gotten enough experience in the GCL.
By Daybed Wagmoe
December 5, 2008 4:40 PM | Link to this
Efrim — thanks for posting the full top 10 list. If I had time, I would expound on the list they have and figure out which teams have the most/few players on that top-50 list, who the highest-rated prospect is for each position, etc…but I’ve got way too much work to do for that, as much as I’d enjoy doing it.
Wayne in UT — you’re right, it’s going to be very exciting watching those players develop. Don’t tell anybody, but I’m kinda looking past 2009 and eager for 2010 and following to see our youngsters come up and develop. It’s almost impossible to keep all of those young, good players, but it seems like Frank Wren has a good head on his shoulders to keep as many of them as he can.
Kinda reminds me of a quote that I read from Bobby Cox in 1986, when he was GM of the Braves: “we’ll be ready to compete in about 5 years.”
By ernesto
December 5, 2008 4:40 PM | Link to this
Mad Dog to hang it up on Monday.
Good to see him go out while he’s still respectable.
Love to do one of those one day contracts and let him retire a Brave.
By cityofdecatur
December 5, 2008 4:41 PM | Link to this
i’ll try so baseball with that BBQ. nypost says our offer to Burnett is 64 mil for 4 years plus a vesting based on innings pitched for the fifth year and the Yankees are now centering on Lowe. Can AJ arm hold up for 5 years that’s my concern. How long will we allow him to use our offer as leverage with ny baltimore and toronto? got to much time on my hands being out of work. *mention DOB and i’ll cut $3 offer your winning bid for my Delbert lps on eBay. yeah i got to much time on my hands.
By Fear Strikes Out Braves?
December 5, 2008 4:43 PM | Link to this
Planes have a lower mortality rate than any other form of transportation! Wow, seriously? Can the Braves not catch a break?!
depends on which stats you use. Per miles traveled they do, but per actual amount of time spent in them they don’t. Me,I’m betting amount of time is the more meaningful stat. I fly all the time, but I sympathize with her fear.
By ernesto
December 5, 2008 4:43 PM | Link to this
No one is rooting harder for Frenchy to turn it around next season than I am, except maybe Mrs. Frenchy.
But the holes in his swing and strike zone knowledge make a quick turn around don’t overwhelm you with optimism.
By Wayne in UT
December 5, 2008 4:44 PM | Link to this
Let’s don’t be dissin’ my man Freel now!
:-)
Back in a few hours…..
By rhays
December 5, 2008 4:47 PM | Link to this
is there a chance the braves get burnett and then still make a deal for peavy ?
By ernesto
December 5, 2008 4:47 PM | Link to this
I wonder how long a rope Frenchy gets next year?
If he’s still not doing anything by mid June do they start ttalking about a platoon out there?
We might need to be thinking about an OF who could take over RF as well as LF duties.
By ncscoots
December 5, 2008 4:49 PM | Link to this
flange, we’ll give Marty some extra cred for his 4:22, also, LOL. He’s turning into a fine addition.
Although, we haven’t heard his musings on Tombstone, BBQ, and blues, so there’s no way to project his full ML performance just yet. :-)
By ppaddy123
December 5, 2008 4:49 PM | Link to this
By DAP December 5, 2008 4:32 PM | Link to this ppaddy Chipper is not, right now in his career, the same hitter as Pujols. NOT EVEN CLOSE! hes as close as anybody. could we say that chipper is 4/5 of the player pujols is? would that mean that ludwick would perform at 4/5 what he did last year…which would still be great. my point is, if ludwicks performance is dictated by who is in the order, hes not going to turn into juan pierre batting behing chipper instead of pujols, ok?
I don’t see the upside of sending KJ for Ludwick. You and I are gonna’ have to agree to disagree. KJ has been nothing but solid and Ludwick is nothing but a question mark where his health is concerned. Haven’t we dealt with enough injuries already?
By fleming
December 5, 2008 4:50 PM | Link to this
Just wondering if our bullpen is as deep and good as we think it might be with gonzo, soriano, morlan, and possibly smoltz, do we really need an ACE or just quality arms who can keep us close to the late innings and let our bullpen match up with the opposing bullpen?
By Evan
December 5, 2008 4:51 PM | Link to this
Efrim and Steve from OH,
Thanks for clearing me up on Feliz, I wasn’t aware he was thought of in such high regard at the time. Maybe the idea of losing Salty, Elvis, and Harrison in the same trade stung too much already and I never looked into it.
Also Efrim, Nice post about the rotations on the farm. Hope you’re wrong (though you did mention this as a possibility) about Hanson, in that I’d love to see him break camp on the roster.
DOB, If you do check out that band (Mother Mother) the two songs I would recommend the most are Hayloft and Wrecking Ball. Great stuff.
By 18 Wheels of Love
December 5, 2008 4:53 PM | Link to this
Frank Wren on the Radio at 5 PM…
http://radiotime.com/station/s27300/TheFan10551055.aspx
By Evan
December 5, 2008 4:54 PM | Link to this
Yeah cabraves, I saw that about Maddux. Probably the right call for him to hang them up now, but I’m having a hard time dealing with it. He was always my favorite player, and I don’t ever see that changing. I’ll miss seeing him on the mound.
By Efrim
December 5, 2008 4:57 PM | Link to this
Flange1
No problem dude. I’m guessing that Rohrbough could move quickly to Double A if he finds success at the Beach.
Steve from OH
I kept thinking about Hoover. But I wasn’t sure if the Braves saw him as a starter or as a reliever. You’re probably right about Devall. He certainly didn’t get enough innings down in the GCL, but I’d still like to see him start out at Danville.
By DAP
December 5, 2008 4:57 PM | Link to this
I don’t see the upside of sending KJ for Ludwick. You and I are gonna’ have to agree to disagree. KJ has been nothing but solid and Ludwick is nothing but a question mark where his health is concerned. Haven’t we dealt with enough injuries already?
no, we dont have to agree to disagree. if thats your opinion, i agree with you. i dont think we should trade KJ for ludwick. it wouldnt be horrible, but i dont think its the best move.
if your opinion is that ludwick is only good because he is in a lineup with albert pujols, and will hit like rafael belliard in any other lineup, then i very very strongly disagree.
By Davey Johnson's Locker
December 5, 2008 5:01 PM | Link to this
oops forgot Smoltz as releiver. what do you think?
By brian
December 5, 2008 5:01 PM | Link to this
Congratulations and best wishes to Greg Maddux who through his agent announced his retirement today.
Greg deserves all the accolades he receives. The best pitcher in our generation will be a first ballot Hall Of Famer - should be unanimous. I hope he goes in with a Braves cap.
Thank you Greg for all you did for the Braves. I hope he goes into coaching because he would be one heck of a pitching coach but I sure understand if he wants to live a leisurely life now
By nolie
December 5, 2008 5:11 PM | Link to this
I would contend the biggest disappointment so far this offesaon is Tazawa signing with Boston.GT
hard to tell. Several sources including ESPN were not positive at all on his prospects in the show
By cabravesfan
December 5, 2008 5:17 PM | Link to this
evan
Yeah- I always loved watching him pitch- even when he was out here with the dodgers (although I have to admit it looked really strange when he was on the mound in an LA uni)
Without a doubt a first ballot Hall of Famer
It probably was the right choice at the right time- would hate to see his brilliant legecy tarnished because he stayed too long…but man am I going to miss watching what he could do with a baseball (even at the “ancient” age of 43)
By Steve from OH
December 5, 2008 5:18 PM | Link to this
Efrim, based on what I’ve read, I think that Hoover will go to starting. In fact (I know it’s a bit early, but whatever), I’d call him one of my potential “sleeper” picks for the 2009 season if he starts at Danville (which I think he will). My others? Ask me in a few days, lol, though I will say that I expect Erik Cordier and Steve Evarts to have excellent comeback seasons in Myrtle Beach…that reminds me, I think you’ve forgotten Evarts. Hmm…it seems that we may have to trade another pitcher to make room for everyone, lol, though the situation could be remedied by moving Cofield or Lyman to the ‘pen, and starting Rohrbough in AA, thus opening a spot in the lower levels. Not sure I’d start Rohrbough at AA right away, but I’m just brainstorming.
By nitram odarp
December 5, 2008 5:21 PM | Link to this
congrats to the professor. enjoy retirement. thanks for helping me become a braves fan just like all the pathetic people who post here.
By McFann O –[zzz]
December 5, 2008 5:25 PM | Link to this
I don’t know why I bother.
Is it because I changed my e-mail?? Is that why my post to F.N. Hale won’t go?? It’s me!! It’s the real McFann!! It’s not some impostor! What’s going on? HELP!!
By lamename
December 5, 2008 5:29 PM | Link to this
I gotta say that I’m looking forward to 2010 as well. If we get Burnett, agree on Hudson’s option and assume the maturation of Hanson, our starting rotation in 2010 would be scary.
Burnett Hudson Jurrjens Vazquez Hanson
Our line-up would look pretty good too, but there would be a couple holes.
1B Kotchman 2B KJ SS Yuni 3B Chipper - Think he’ll still be around? C - McCann LF - ? CF - Schafer RF - Frenchy
Any prospects or departing free agents that I’m missing?
By nitram odarp
December 5, 2008 5:34 PM | Link to this
one more comment about maddux. i was working in california the summer that he threw his 300th win. i had tickets to the game that saturday and was planning on going but to my luck my freaking boss asked me 10 mins after quiting time to come in the next day. i had no choice, my co-worker who had the day off went by himself…. i hate my luck
By Steve from OH
December 5, 2008 5:36 PM | Link to this
Congrats are due to Greg Maddux, who had one hell of a career. I’m sad to see the ‘ol Mad Dog go, as he was always my favorite pitcher, even after he left Atlanta. Enjoy the retirement (how couldn’t he with all that $$??) Mad Dog.
By 18 Wheels of Love
December 5, 2008 5:55 PM | Link to this
OK, so the Braves are failing on the farm. But don’t we trade away all our prospects anyway, so doesn’t that mean we are trading worthless players to other teams for their valuable players?
Starting 2B - Kelly Johnson
Starting SS - Yunel Escobar
Starting 3B - Chipper Jones
Starting RF - Frenchy
Starting C - Brian McCann
5 of 8 starting positions all filled with home grown players. IMO that’s not too shabby. And Teixeira was acquired with by giving up 5 players we drafted. Suckers!
By McFann O –[zzz]
December 5, 2008 5:55 PM | Link to this
What. The. VORP??!!
I’ve been trying to send the same doggone post for TWO HOURS now, and it hasn’t appeared.
F.N. Hale, I’m not ignoring you. Believe, I’ve never tried so hard to get a post to go through. Don’t even know if the gahl-dern post is worth it.
By GT
December 5, 2008 5:58 PM | Link to this
I would contend the biggest disappointment so far this offesaon is Tazawa signing with Boston.GT hard to tell. Several sources including ESPN were not positive at all on his prospects in the show By nolie December 5, 2008 5:11 PM | Link to this
Whether Tazawa pans out or not isn’t as relevant here. If he never finds success at the big league level - a legitimate concern at this point - you simply don’t keep him there, and you haven’t tied up a lot of financial resources in him at this point, so there’s not much downside in my mind.
I think the disappointment stems from my assumption the Braves put a better offer on the table than (or one as good as) BOS’s. If that was the case, it says a lot about how the Braves are viewed from the outside.
Maybe BOS came up with a better offer, but much of the discussion on this blog and others seemed to indicate the Braves were very serious about landing this guy.
By ernesto
December 5, 2008 6:05 PM | Link to this
OJ got 15 years. I almost start to feel bad for him, then I remember he got away with killing 2 people and I don’t feel so bad anymore.
Juice. Now served in a can.
By ernesto
December 5, 2008 6:08 PM | Link to this
For those of you who will miss seeing Mad Dog compete just look for him on the golf course, I’m sure he’d be glad to take your money.
He heckled me pretty good in a charity golf tournament once.
Still love the guy.
By fieldofdreams
December 5, 2008 6:11 PM | Link to this
We’re gonna regret fanning on Peavy. This team hasn’t done anything to upgrade; why anyone thinks we’ll finish higher than last year is beyond me.
By McFann O –[zzz]
December 5, 2008 6:12 PM | Link to this
Maybe if I leave the link off:
F.N. Hale—
I think David Ross will make a pretty good BUC. DOB said he’s thrown out 38% of base-runners in his career…that’s sweet! He’s got some pop in his bat, too.
Love the Heapster, but worry for his longevity.
Me, too. Me, too. But did you see the photos of him at the opening of his dad’s new facility? (You cann find these photos on the Braves’ AJC page—there’s a box above the headlines that says, “Braves Scores and More”, and a thing inside the box that says “photos”—click on that and it’ll take you to a bunch of galleries.) He’s looking good. Under the photos is a link to the article Ms. Rogers wrote entitled “McCann Using Off-Season to Work on Career Longevity”.
OK…now I’m sicka the sighta this post.
By alex
December 5, 2008 6:20 PM | Link to this
I still think we’ve got a better chance of landing Peavy than Burnett. HELLO?! We’re bidding against the pitching starved and cash rich NY Yankees who are DESPERATE to get back on top. Do you really think they’re not going to outbid the Braves?
I bet we end up with Oliver Perez or somebody of that ilk. I just don’t see us outbidding anybody for a top free-agent pitcher.
I DARE ANYBODY TO DISAGREE WITH ME.
By Psg81
December 5, 2008 6:20 PM | Link to this
FRIDAY: The two-year deal with Ross is official, and it’s believed to be for $3MM. WEDNESDAY, 8:00pm: MLB.com’s Mark Bowman says Ross’ two-year deal will be worth about $3.5MM. Ross says it could be finalized tomorrow.
By McFann O –[zzz]
December 5, 2008 6:21 PM | Link to this
Oh wow…it sent! Musta been the links. Never caused a problem before, but what the VORP ever.
I only hope F.N. Hale gets a chance to see it now. Sorry, man.
Maddox is retiring…dang. Sometimes I really wish I wouldn’t have waited so long to be a big fan…though I was pretty young in his heyday.
By Ebravesluvr
December 5, 2008 6:22 PM | Link to this
Kelly Johnson, an above average defensive 2nd baseman?? ROFLMAO!!!!!….hahahaha…..teeeheee….* grabs stomach from laughing so hard *
Oh wait, they were serious?? Well, I don’t know what to say.
By Philliesuk
December 5, 2008 6:36 PM | Link to this
GT Valid thought, but consider this…Japanese pitchers gravitate to Boston because they already have Japanese players on their roster (translators, Japanese friends, a loyal Japanese fan base, etc etc). So it’s probably a little skewed. I think we’re still viewed as a great team; we just don’t spend the same bucks we used to (although I’m encouraged by the Burnett offer).
By Davey Johnson's Locker
December 5, 2008 6:37 PM | Link to this
I think the Cards are desperate for a Kelly Johnson, so they’ll throw in whoever is not named Pujols. He’ll deal Ludwick to the Braves and Ludwick will have another outstanding season. If Jeff Francoeur comes back, watch out Phillies!
Kotchman will deliver a 100 rbi season, Chipper will hit for .350 again, Mac will hit more homers and Escobar will excel as a leadoff hitter. Schafer will impress even the most pessimists by getting on base a lot. He’ll play so well that we won’t need Anderson or Blanco platooning with him. I like this team because Frank Wren will add Ludwick and Burnett. Vazquez is a plus, despite saying adieu to Flowers. Jurjens will win fifteen games. And look for Hanson to win the rookie of the year award by winning 12 or 13 games, just like Jurjens did last season. The bench is a question mark and as for the bullpen look for Smoltz to hold innings for Gonzo. Moylan and Soriano will come back.
am I dreaming or am I overly optimistic? I don’t care. You’ll look back to what I said a year from now.
By Steve from OH
December 5, 2008 6:37 PM | Link to this
Ebravesluvr, Kelly is athletic enough to become an above average defensive 2B. Maybe he isn’t right now, but he’s not nearly as bad as everyone (and I assume you) think. It should be duly noted that Kelly was not listed in the “trailers” section of the 2008 Fielding Bible (that class included Cano, Kinsler, Castillo, Lopez, Kent, and Durham). I believe it has been stated here that he’s been a few plays above average, which would, of course, make him above average (imagine that). Anyone have his actual plus/minus rating? I’d love to know what it was.
Kelly’s defense is NOT a huge problem, or really a “problem” at all. Sure, it needs work, no doubt, but people overexaggerate it with no real basis for it and promote Prado’s average defense as other-worldly. That’s just not true, period. And besides, Kelly’s great bat surely makes up for any defensive inefficiencies he might possess. That’s where his value lies and that is why other teams covet him.
By LivininAL
December 5, 2008 6:37 PM | Link to this
Someone enlighten me..I keep seeing comments about Escobar’s bad attitude/demeanor. What did I miss watching them last year? What I saw was a young guy who wanted to win, playing through some injuries,adapting to his first year as a starter. Im sure he got down on occasion last year. Any player/ fan capable of breathing had some exasperated moments last year.
By BravesFanInRockies
December 5, 2008 6:39 PM | Link to this
GT
Re: Tazawa,
I’ve also seen at least one report where Tazawa said having Dice-K and Okajima on the Red Sox staff made a big difference in his decision and that the Rangers definitely offered more than the Sox.
May mean the Braves will have a hard time cracking the market for Japanese players.
By Psg81
December 5, 2008 6:39 PM | Link to this
alex i think i would rather have Paul Byrd rather than Oliver Perez and sounds like he would like to come back to atlanta and would probably get around 7 mill
By Fan-coeur (Frenchy has heart)
December 5, 2008 6:39 PM | Link to this
Frenchy has heart. He’ll prove all of you wrong.
By nolie
December 5, 2008 6:41 PM | Link to this
Oh wait, they were serious?? Well, I don’t know what to say luvr
according to most all of the various fielding analysis systems he is average to very slightly above average. are they all wrong? I don’t know. But if one doesn’t get hung up in the emotional minefield of a few rather prominent lapses, then I’d say he is about average so far. Hopefully he will continue to get better , though I don’t think that’ll happen a whole lot.
By Steve from OH
December 5, 2008 6:42 PM | Link to this
Oh, and DOB wrote:
“who they really believe can be a well-above-average second baseman defensively…
Never said he was currently one.
By LivininAL
December 5, 2008 6:44 PM | Link to this
Ebravesluvr, dont stop laughing yet, but I think KJ will become better each year at 2nd base this was only his second season.
By Steve from OH
December 5, 2008 6:47 PM | Link to this
Not to mention that I’ve noticed a marked improvement in Kelly’s ability to turn a difficult double play…his footwork has really improved and he’s impressed me in that dept.
By Steve McP
December 5, 2008 6:47 PM | Link to this
OK Alex.
I disagree with you - there that wasn’t too hard.
By keylargo
December 5, 2008 6:52 PM | Link to this
Let’s see - OJ gets nine years to serve. When he gets out
JJ will have 130 career wins
Hanson will have 120 career wins
Jordon Schafer wll have 200 career SB’s
CJ, JS, TG announce that next year will be their last
BC signs another 1 year contract
LOL,
By Ebravesluvr
December 5, 2008 6:54 PM | Link to this
I don’t think Kelly will be a bad 2nd baseman EVENTUALLY but right now, the guy can’t go to his right to save his life.
By Ebravesluvr
December 5, 2008 6:56 PM | Link to this
My bad, Steve….I just saw the “above average defensive 2nd baseman” connected to Kelly Johnson and was blinded by my laughter.
I agree, though….he COULD be….eventually.
By Efrim
December 5, 2008 6:57 PM | Link to this
Steve from OH
Steve Evarts to have excellent comeback seasons in Myrtle Beach…that reminds me, I think you’ve forgotten Evarts.
Unfortunately, Evarts had Tommy John Surgery last summer. Not sure when he is expected back, but I’m guessing probablu not until late 2009. They’ll probably start him at Low A Rome in 2010 and then move him to the Beach. I think he turned 21 this year.
By Chop Chop
December 5, 2008 6:59 PM | Link to this
Kelly Johnson does not impress me with his defense. He’s not terrible defensively, but he has a knack for kicking the ball around. As long as the man can spread out his numbers a little better at the plate and avoid too many cold streaks, he’ll be a good player for the Braves.
Or any team he’s traded to.
(I’d trade him to get outfield power. Hell, I’d include him in a deal for a starter if Burnett doesn’t sign on the dotted line. I’m not really a big fan of either Escobar or Kelly, but Escobar’s defense makes him a very valuable asset.)
By Steve from OH
December 5, 2008 7:02 PM | Link to this
Ebravesluvr, I guess we agree to disagree…I don’t think Kelly is a bad 2B right now. It’s ok, though, it’s not like you’re advocating acquiring Ryan Freel every hour on the hour (kidding, Wayne!).
By Ebravesluvr
December 5, 2008 7:06 PM | Link to this
I agree with you, Chop Chop….haha, for once :/
By McFann O –[zzz]
December 5, 2008 7:09 PM | Link to this
I didn’t know Corky signed a minor league deal with the White Sox…They’re getting all our catchers!
: >
By Steve from OH
December 5, 2008 7:09 PM | Link to this
Efrim, I was under the impression that he had it in the spring, but a quick google search confirms that it was in June, my bad. I’d bet he maybe returns in September, but a more likely return is for winter ball or an instructional league. I’d bet how he fares in whatever winter ball he plays in determines if he starts in A or A+.
By David O'Brien
December 5, 2008 7:17 PM | Link to this
I was away from the computer for a few hours, and in the interim they announced they’d officially signed Ross to a two-year deal and, oh yeah, Maddux is retiring.
Neither development surprising, of course, since Boras had said at GM meetings that Maddux intented to retire. Still, it’s pretty huge stuff. As I’ve said before, to me he’s the greatest pitcher in the past couple of generations.
He’s gonna have a press conference out in Vegas on Monday. Looking forward to seeing him out there.
By Efrim
December 5, 2008 7:17 PM | Link to this
Steve from OH
It’s cool. I think he projected as a mid rotation starter, at best. But we have quite a bit of those types of guys. Also, it’s far away, but who would you like them to take in next years draft? Considering Strasburg is out fo the question, I’m sure the Braves will focus on Alex White, Kyle Gibson, Aaron Crow, Andy Oliver, Tyler Matszuk, and Matt Purke for pitchers. For position players, Grant Green, Dustin Ackley, Donovan Tate, and Robbie Shields. Green would be my choice, but I don’t think he’ll last. I’m not sure I really care who they take, as long as it’s the best player available.
By Left Field
December 5, 2008 7:20 PM | Link to this
OK Alex I disagree with you.
Fran-Cour,Frenchy should learn how to use a bat…
By keylargo
December 5, 2008 7:22 PM | Link to this
……..and in nine years, McFann , now 18, and having a Phd in behavioral psychology, signs with the Braves as team psycholgist. 8)
By flange1
December 5, 2008 7:23 PM | Link to this
‘scoots,
Totally agree with you on Marty! We need more good ones like him!!!
Steve from OH,
I agree that KJ is improving at 2B. HE does not seem to have the “instinct” move that Andruw seems to have, but repetitions make him better on the basic plays and he is getting better about moving both ways.
His footwork on the double play is better and he is not scared to turn it.
If he can keep with the program he had during the last month and a half at the plate and be a bit more consistent at the plate, he could turn into ab all star at 2B.
By David O'Brien
December 5, 2008 7:29 PM | Link to this
dwaynerice: The ankle problem for Francoeur was resolved with mere orthotics. That’s why you didn’t see him hobbling or complaining about it at all for most of the second half.
Believe me, it was portrayed by some on the blog as a far bigger problem than it ever was. Orthotics. That’s all. No break, no ligament damage, nothing to fix in surgery. So no, no offseason surgery….
HOUSEOFBRAVESTALK, regarding any concerns about Escobar (or others) being sore over seeing his name in trade rumors. Here’s what Wren said when I asked him that question yesterday:
“Players get used to the fact that their names are going to be out there. We try to squash as many rumors as possible when they’re not founded, and if there’s nothing imminent, try to let them know that. We’ve send some messages to our players, over the course of this process, either directly or indirectly, to let them know that nothing has happened, that it’s just media talk, in some regards.”
By dwaynerice
December 5, 2008 7:34 PM | Link to this
I am aware of that, RobbieT, but asked specifically about his foot/ankle. The strike zone/selectivity he will either get or not. The foot problem hurt his defense. Anyone know the answer on Jeff without having to go into his troubles at the plate? we all know those, etc. etc.
By Steve from OH
December 5, 2008 7:34 PM | Link to this
Efrim, I’d love to have Green too, because he improves much needed middle infield depth and is a top-5 or better talent, but he probably won’t fall to us, though I hope he does. I think Tate and Crow will end up being the best available players that fall to us…tough call. I’d probably take Crow, though if they took Tate instead I’d probably be just as happy. Either way, can’t really go wrong. You’re right, long way away. Ask me again in 5 or 6 months, lol.
By McFann O –[zzz]
December 5, 2008 7:38 PM | Link to this
Keylargo—
LOL!
“Behavioral psychology”…haha…that’ll be the day!
By Steve from OH
December 5, 2008 7:40 PM | Link to this
That shoulda read “Tate or Crow,” which would, of course, make the decision for us. Still, it’s fun to speculate which one you’d like more.
By dwaynerice
December 5, 2008 7:43 PM | Link to this
DOB
Thanks for the info and an always terrific blog!!
By KC
December 5, 2008 7:54 PM | Link to this
Say… has anyone else noticed that all standards of musical excellence go out the window at Christmas time?
I mean, you hear some of the sh!ttiest re-makes in the history of music around this time of year. Some of it is pretty good, but much of it is painful. I’m sitting in an Atlanta Bread Company, and I’m actually being subject to Barry Manilow. BARRY #$%^&* MANILOW!!!!!!!
It’s like musical castration… with no anesthetic.
By f.n. hale
December 5, 2008 8:11 PM | Link to this
McFann, yeah I saw the pics. Losing the weight can only help and he really needs work on his footwork. Not sure I want to see him in another 145 games next year though. Just think it’ll make him old before his time.
Hey, does anyone here know if the Dr. Mike Marshall that posted a few days ago was the real thing? I might have missed it but didn’t see any discussion.
By Interested Observer
December 5, 2008 8:12 PM | Link to this
DOB
If you have a chance to talk to Maddux next week, please let him know how much we appreciate all he’s done. We wouldn’t be on the blog if we didn’t already have an appreciation for baseball, but what a special treat it was to watch Maddux all those years. Perhaps a more fitting nickname would be Picasso, because Mad Dog’s pitching was pure artistry.
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
December 5, 2008 8:27 PM | Link to this
Baseball is losing the best pitcher in a long, long time.
By HAHA
December 5, 2008 8:29 PM | Link to this
am I dreaming or am I overly optimistic? I don’t care. You’ll look back to what I said a year from now. DJs LOCKER
we’ll be laughing at you, not with you
By 22oz
December 5, 2008 8:33 PM | Link to this
Furman Bisher has no grasp of the Braves farm system. That article was a joke. Maybe he hasn’t heard of Hanson, Heyward, Freeman, Rohrbough, Teheran, Locke, Gorkys, and others. I wonder how many games he would come to if the Braves kept all their prospects and just sucked for a few years?
By Rick
December 5, 2008 8:33 PM | Link to this
Wonder if Maddux’s retirement will have any effect on Glavine’s decision about retiring ? If Glavine retires this winter, he and Maddux might go into HOF together . I left Smoltz out of this question because they would have to tear the uniform off him to get him to retire and he may not be a 1st ballot HOFer anywy ( may take a year or two ).
By Marty
December 5, 2008 8:36 PM | Link to this
That’s sad about Maddux. The most amazing thing to be said about Maddux is that Warren Spahn, who retired in 1965, is the only pitcher who started his career after 1900 who finished with more wins than Maddux.
Wow.
By Ebravesluvr
December 5, 2008 8:45 PM | Link to this
Feeling sad about Maddux retiring. He was the most fun to watch back in his prime. It was a pretty much guaranteed win whenever he walked to the mound. Hard to believe he won’t be making that trip to any mound this year. I’ll definitely be hitting Cooperstown when he’s inducted.
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
December 5, 2008 8:58 PM | Link to this
I just watched the Javier Vasquez press conference and I’m sorry, but the gloves are coming off for this post.
Vasquez career record is 127-129 4.40 ERA .496 winning percentage. His team record is 175-178 in 353 career starts. His 162 game average is 12-12 with 34 starts and 218 innings.
To hear Bobby refer to Vasquez as an ELITE pitcher made my blood boil. Cox has lost touch with all reality. And to hear Frank Wren spouting off the verbage of Vasquez being the type of pitcher who can lead the way for the Braves young pitchers made me want to puke.
Somewhere, Ozzie Guillen is laughing his butt off and Joe Torre is grinning ear to ear.
Seeing Cox, Vasquez and Wren sitting side by side, blowing smoke up the collective rear ends of the entire baseball world brought one singular mental picture to mind.
The three STOOGES. Mo, Larry and Curly doing another highly entertaining comedy act.
I live for the day that Cox retires, it cannot come soon enough for this dedicated Braves fan.
By Tomas
December 5, 2008 8:59 PM | Link to this
Question When Greg Maddux gets to the hall of fame, will it be as a Brave or a Cub? How are those thing determined?
By GeorgetownKid
December 5, 2008 9:00 PM | Link to this
In 1995, which was during the steroid era, Greg Maddux was 19-2 with a 1.6 ERA and 10 complete games.
That has to be one of the greatest single season performances in all of sports history.
By Joe
December 5, 2008 9:08 PM | Link to this
The Braves should try to sign free agent picture John Garland from The Angels.
By Ebravesluvr
December 5, 2008 9:09 PM | Link to this
Wait….so being a dedicated fan means questioning, bashing and disagreeing with everything management does?? OK, now that I know that I can work on being a “dedicated” fan, which I already thought I was but I guess you learn something new everyday!
By McFann O –[zzz]
December 5, 2008 9:20 PM | Link to this
F.N. Hale Losing the weight can only help and he really needs work on his footwork.
I think he’s going to. Ms. Rogers’ article and a few other articles said that he’s gonna work on his defense. That’s gotta include footwork, right? Yeah…
Not sure if I wanna see him in 145 games again, either, much as I like to watch him play. (Well, OK, he started 132 last year, and caught in 138.)
Hopefully David Ross cann catch, oh…once every 6 days or so? A couple extra DGANG now and then…
By Weldon
December 5, 2008 9:26 PM | Link to this
DOB - I have a lot of respect for you and your writing, but Prado’s defense is almost comical at times. He’s about one bucket of confetti away from being a full-fledged member of the Washington Generals out there.
But that’s just my opinion. Does anyone in the Braves organization see his defense as adequate?
Also, congratulations on your Jayhawks’ invite to the Insight Bowl. I remember when my Gamecocks went to back-to-back bowls for the first time. It’s a good feeling.
By GEO123
December 5, 2008 9:38 PM | Link to this
DOB,
Why do you think that the Cards would possibly add a prosepct in a Ludwick trade? In St. Louis, we hear the exact opposite (the only way the trade for Johnson would happen is if the Braves added a prospect…
By N8
December 5, 2008 9:46 PM | Link to this
Coach
Well said. I thought the same thing.
How’s the old saying that used to be on those promos for Judge Judy? Something like: “Don’t pee on my feet and tell me it’s raining!”
DOB stated it CLEARLY in his opinion of the trade, by stating that Vazquez is a solid #3 in the rotation that has a track record of eating innings (something this team desperately needs).
Unfortunately, for the time being, he’s slotted at #2 (or god forbid #1, if Bobby has him ahead of JJJ). If we get a true Ace, then Vazquez is a solid pick up.
If that Ace never comes (not sure Burnett is a true Ace either, but adding two guys capable of being sold #3’s and OK #2’s is better than what we had before this off-season - add to that Hudson should be back next year, so…).
But to hear (or read - I haven’t watched the news conference yet), Bobby and Wren gush over him, just oozes of two guys desperate to convince somebody how great of a move this is.
It may very well turn out to be the steal of the off-season. But as of right now it’s just a move for a a guy that can win as often as he loses and eat innings.
No need for Wren and Bobby to sugar-coat it.
Lew
Speaking of bad (if not horrible) Christmas music, have you ever heard Stryper’s version of “Winter Wonderland”?
Good stuff, indeed.
By Logan
December 5, 2008 9:50 PM | Link to this
That’s sad about Maddux. The most amazing thing to be said about Maddux is that Warren Spahn, who retired in 1965, is the only pitcher who started his career after 1900 who finished with more wins than Maddux. Marty
Yea but the braves used a three man rotation in those days. Spahn Sain and Prayfor Rain. I give the nod to Maddux.
By Paul Krugman
December 5, 2008 9:52 PM | Link to this
That scout DOB spoke to must have been drunk when he said the “horrible economy” is affecting EVEN the Yankees. He must not realize it’s “business as usual” even with 200,000 Wall St. jobs being lost, 6.7% unemployment rate right now, possible BK of the Big 3 that would put that figure over 10%, major financial institutions soon to contract credit limit on credit cards thus decimating those currently using them to supplement income. And all this not even bringing into account the deleterious effects when people realize all measures haven’t loosened up the credit markets—BUT Baseball will remain as the ONLY immune entity in the civilized world as the owners would not even think of reducing spending on the cusp of a possible depression. No, AJ,CC, Manny and about 12 others wii get their ranson, but from that point on look out below. And when teams see the impact of vacant luxury seating, the diminished revenue from advertising and the falloff in general admission, Well at that point it should really be time for “Moneyball”. Yankees have not won since before 9/11 and they won’t win this year. AND if the Braves sign Alice Jane you will be squealing like Ned Beatty in Deliverance before August. Alice Jane is a rotator cuff, torn labrum or maybe even a Carl Pavano coccyx in waiting.
By N8
December 5, 2008 9:57 PM | Link to this
Tomas
I think it’s Greg’s choice. But I could be wrong.
GEO123
I was wondering the same thing earlier today. Funny how when you are a fan of one side or the other, you always assume that YOUR TEAM is giving up the better guy.
My guess, is due to KJ’s age, and the fact that there aren’t many 2B that hit like he does (or can), that he has the higher value. But Ludwick had the better season, so who knows?
GeorgetownKid
I’m not sure where you look stats like this up, but my guess is that the back-2-back seasons of 1994 & 1995 that Maddux put up, are as good of back-2-back seasons by any pitcher in any era. Simply amazing those two years.
If I’m not mistaken, I think Pedro did something similar in Boston.
About the only downside to those two seasons of Maddux’s, is that they were BOTH strike shortened years, so he didn’t get the chance to add wins to this totals.
He certainly would have won 20 games in each of those seasons, if not for the strike, IMO. In 1994, he only made 25 starts and had 16 wins. If you give him the 10 or 11 more starts that most healthy guys go, he certainly would have won 4 more games.
But you’re right, that 1995 season, is one for the ages. In 28 starts, he won 19 games, losing only 2. Give him another 7 or 8 starts and he might have won 25 that year.
Incredible.
As for my favorite Maddux story?
I think my favorite, is the story of him giving the Braves clubhouse attendant the keys to his BMW (or whatever the hell it was), up over hearing a phone conversation that he couldn’t go home for the weekend (maybe the 4th of July?), because his car wasn’t working.
My dad wouldn’t even do that….. FOR ME!
Either that, or one of the many stories other players have told of sitting in the dugout next to him where he would predict EXACTLY what was gonna happen on the next pitch (like telling other players to look out because a foul ball was coming in the dugout - only to have everybody duck for cover when it happened).
Smart guy. Good guy. Funny guy. Classic all-time Brave. But most of all, GREAT baseball player.
By Coach Is Seriously Deranged
December 5, 2008 9:58 PM | Link to this
Coach - I live for the day that Cox retires, it cannot come soon enough for this dedicated Braves fan.
Damn dude…get a life..
By bruce
December 5, 2008 9:59 PM | Link to this
David You are the man. I do not know if you were with the Braves for the end of the Maddox era, I believe not, but it seems that you have such standing with this award winning blog of grateful Maddox fans, that hopefully you can have some time with him next week to hear his heart for the Braves and his two compadres and their situations and maybe get Maddox to do a guest appearance on the blog for a period of time, maybe even pre-scheduled and announced on the AJC site in significant fashion. If that were to happend, in a couple of hours you two could blow through two or three 1000 comment blogs. Make some history. It would seem so fitting for the retirement of one of the giants. When I just read that it was official, I felt a genuine sadness that an era was over. Hopefully history will be made next week or soon. thanks, Bruce
By Train Wreck Bystander
December 5, 2008 10:00 PM | Link to this
Who would have thought 3 years ago that the headline “Braves await decision from A.J.” wouldn’t be referring to Andruw Jones?
I knew it was about Burnett and I still did a double-take.
By The Real Joebrave
December 5, 2008 10:02 PM | Link to this
On second thought,Suddenly I don’t like the Idea of signing A.J. Burnett. Withdraw the Offer Wren!! Do It Now! You sir are being Played for a fool, Burnett and His agent are Milking The Offer to get More from the Stankees!!! Every Sports Agent should be Assassinated. By all means at least give this @ssholes Agent a deadline.Monday and no Later than 02:30pm if no signature on paper, Then Moooooove on as fast as You can!!! He11 for that Matter I myself fit the bill for the Braves Pitching rotation or lack thereof.age:43 yrs, throws Right handed, Injury History, Torn rotator cuff, rt elbow tendonitis, lower back disc bulge,bone spurs on both heels… $hit sign me up I will Take 2 mill, with no agent, and sit my happy @ss on the D.L. all year long!!!p.s. I could really use the 2 mill!!!
By BravesLover
December 5, 2008 10:02 PM | Link to this
How quickly it seems to have been forgotten the atrocious defense KJ plays. He was 18th in fielding this year for 2nd baseman. His failure to cover 2nd base, back up 2nd, slowness to cover 1st on bunts and his ham hands are sure signs that he will never be a good much less great second baseman. Not to mention that SI said during the year that he doesn’t have baseball instincts. That means that he has to think before he acts which is why he is slow covering bases. The bricks he has for hands will never make for a good infielder. Take Ludwick and be grateful that St. Louis made the trade (but they have to promise not to send KJ back). The St. Louis fans and media will have a field day every week talking about his latest mental or physical screwup.
By Weldon
December 5, 2008 10:10 PM | Link to this
N8, Coach - would you rather Bobby and Wren introduce him by saying “Vazquez - a decent player with very good peripherals who just doesn’t quite have the mentality of a great pitcher.”
What do they have to gain by doing that?
By Poco Fan
December 5, 2008 10:18 PM | Link to this
Just a thought—If Peavy goes to the Cubs, won’t they be too heavy in the starting pitching department? Maybe one of their better starters would become available. Rest assured, Peavy as a Cub will get the longest standing BOOvation in Atlanta history when the Cubbies come to town.
By nolie
December 5, 2008 10:21 PM | Link to this
BUT Baseball will remain as the ONLY immune entity in the civilized world as the owners would not even think of reducing spending on the cusp of a possible depression. Paul K
hiya Lou V. you think you’re foolin’ anybody? Hmmm.
By Another Jalopy
December 5, 2008 10:21 PM | Link to this
AJ Burnett????? Are we all going to be required to go to medical school. I, for one, will want to be able to understand all the medical jargon related to Burnett’s stints on the DL. Hopefully his old lady has simmered down to the point she won’t be using that shrill Oklahoma voice to castigate talk show hosts. Fortunately AJ can throw a baseball because he has already done his part in rescuing himself from a career in “Waste Management”.
By The Real Joebrave
December 5, 2008 10:22 PM | Link to this
Really folks, I don’t want the Braves to sign Burnett,His agent is just playing our bloved Braves to up The Stankees Ante!!! So the 43 million dollar question would be WHERE DO THEY GO FROM HERE? for one Vazquez is on the team,2. Jurrjens,what about a phone call to Minnesota??? See what it would take to secure Liriano,or Baker,For Gosh Sakes Please call Pitt and at least enquire on Maholm,perhaps, a deal no one is thinking of,Arizona wants Kelly Johnson,needs another team to get involved, here is a thought… To DBacks K.Johnson,F.Bueno. To Rangers: from DBAcks????? JoJo Reyes To Braves: Nelson Cruz, and Max Scherzer… This makes sense all the way around. All Three teams get what they want,and need. AZ. gets a 2b, nd lefty relief help Tex gets, a Startin Pitcher,and minor league body… and Atl gets another Starter, and a Lf… Just a thought, and We ain’t dealing EscoBar!!!
By Steve from OH
December 5, 2008 10:25 PM | Link to this
Coach (Shaun, Lew, this one’s for you guys, too):
If you’d like, follow this link, entitled “Frank Wren is a Stat Head” wherein you will find another link leading to a radio interview Frank Wren did today, discussing the Vazquez trade, among other things. He actually makes a pretty good argument for Vazquez (I was really ambivalent towards him at the outset, I’ll admit).
The reason I add Shaun and Lew into the mix is because it seems that ‘ol FW enjoys his sabermetrics a little bit…
Frank also discusses Peavy, Burnett, the search for a LF (when asked if Kelly in LF and Prado at 2B was a possibility, he flatly answered “no”). Y’alls need to check it out.
By The Real Joebrave
December 5, 2008 10:28 PM | Link to this
Then You have a Staff of Jurrjens,Vazquez,Scherzer,sign a vet lefty, maybe Randy Wolf lhp,and let Hanson take his lumps… I think that woukd be a better option than hadcuffing Yourself to Burnett by wayyyyyyy overpaying him and his monkey@ssed agent!! Good report by Bobby on Smoltz, Maybe he can be the Righty complememnt to Gonzo, and Soriano can stretch the arm out and Start!!! Either way not a bad starting 5… and no ludicrous contract ala Hampton!! People this team has Got to get Younger!!! AND IF THE GOLDEN OY FRENCHFRY CAN’T GET IT DONE THEN BOOT HIS @SS OUT OF HERE!!!
By safebet
December 5, 2008 10:29 PM | Link to this
HERE COMES SMOLTZ JUST READ THE ARTICAL.
By The Real Joebrave
December 5, 2008 10:34 PM | Link to this
1.Jurrjens 2. Vazquez 3.Wolf 4.Scherzer 5.Hanson or Soriano Not a bad starting 5…… could be a very good starting 5 in another year!!! Now what to do with Morton,Parr??? There’s always the opportunity to construct another deal!! I kind of like JJ Hardy a little better than Escobar.. Perhaps another 3 teamer!!
By The Real Joebrave
December 5, 2008 10:37 PM | Link to this
But seriously folks, do not, I repeat DO NOT count on Smoltzie to Start, and Say He11 no to Glavine!!!
By The Real Joebrave
December 5, 2008 10:38 PM | Link to this
And don’t believe everything that comes out of Frank Wren’s mouth either… My guess, Kelly Johnson is GONE!!!!!!!!
By Greg in TN
December 5, 2008 10:43 PM | Link to this
Evening denizens…
The best pitcher of this generation retires in Sin City on Monday, and the only question worthy of wagering that could be on the minds of the sports books in Vegas is which hat does Greg Maddux wear in Cooperstown.
Folks, the pedigree Maddux has is sterling. 335 wins, a career WHIP of 1.143 and four consecutive Cy Young Awards. Of his 109 complete games throughout his 23-year MLB career, 35 were shutouts (almost a third).
Agree completely with N8, his ‘94 and ‘95 seasons were incredible. 53 starts between the beginning of 1994 and the end of the regular season in 1995 and the only thing that could stop him was the work stoppage.
We were certainly fortunate with Smoltz, Maddux and Glavine in the 90’s and I don’t think we’ll ever see such a dominating performance by a starting staff ever again, at least not for as long as we saw #29, #31 and #47 on the hill for the Braves.
Clear a spot above the 755 Club denizens for #31 in the not too distant future.
Bravo Mr. Maddux.
By The Real Joebrave
December 5, 2008 10:49 PM | Link to this
The Arizona Republic reports that the Arizona Diamondbacks are interested in trading for Atlanta Braves second baseman Kelly Johnson to offset the free agent losses of Orlando Hudson and David Eckstein.
The Braves are supposedly looking for a right-handed outfielder with pop in exchange for Johnson. Justin Upton or Conor Jackson would fit that mold, but both are almost certainly untouchable. Eric Byrnes is unmovable with nearly $22 million left on his contract. Chris Young might have drawn interest, except that the Braves already boast several promising centerfield prospects.
The Arizona Republic went on to speculate that the Diamondbacks might involve a third team in these trade talks in order to find a good fit for the Braves.
Johnson, who turns 27 in February, has gone .273/.356/.440 in three major league seasons. He would fill the Diamondbacks’ needs for a left-handed bat and table-setter to pair up with Stephen Drew, along with obviously sealing the gaping hole at second base. My guess is Frank Wren aint bein exactly truthful… Bill Shanks, has this up on his site as well…. in the hills up here we refer to this as , smells like sumpmin is up!!!!
By Torn Rotator
December 5, 2008 10:50 PM | Link to this
A J Burnett!!!!!! C’mon!!Just pull up the guy’s numbers, but even those don’t tell the real story. E-mail a Toronto beat writer, call a Toronto call in show. The guy has NEVER won a meaningful game in his life. You can easily pull this up at numerous sites. Just when the team he is getting ready to go on the injury list for—-i mean pitching for gets into contention, he will disappear. Then at the end of a season with team out of race he will throw in some meaningless wins. Look It Up!! It’s right there.
By The Real Joebrave
December 5, 2008 10:50 PM | Link to this
And with that ,I will say gnite ffffolks!!
By N8
December 5, 2008 11:00 PM | Link to this
Weldon
No. Quite simply, (if you know the story of Guillen saying he was NOT a big game pitcher), his self esteem was probably very low already. He knows what he is. The fans that follow baseball know what he is.
He is NOT an elite pitcher. If he was, why would the White Sox be so quick to give up on him. Why wouldn’t other teams have lined up to trade for him.
All simply had to say is that Vazquez is a very solid pitcher with a history of NOT being injured who can solidify the rotation and give our bullpen the much needed rest that they didn’t get last year.
But to try and convince us that he is one of the “two top end starters” that this rotation needed, is sugar-coating it, IMO.
It just seems like an awful lot of spin-doctoring going on.
However, I do believe that a return to the NL will be good for him. He might very well provide us with #2 like numbers and outings. But at the same time, he could provide us with nothing more than innings to go with his very average ERA over the past few years (save 2003 and 2007).
It’s a guessing game at which Vazquez is gonna show up. The 2007 version or the 2008 version.
But make no mistake about my opinion of him. Whether he pitches in the 1-2-3-4 or 5 spot in the order (provided he stays healhty like he has in his career), he WILL BE a fine addition to our bullpen.
Is he Peavy? Nope. But he’s not Redman either. So it’s still a nice pickup.
My main question is why not offer Flowers to Towers (along with the other guys offered) and get Peavy?
If we had to have somebody (assuming we only pick up one guy with a “name”), I’d rather have Peavy and fill in the rotation somehow. That being said, if Wren can STILL acquire Peavy, then he’s done a VERY nice job putting a solid rotation together.
Of course, as has been bantered for weeks, then that means Wren has to find a SS. You can (and we all have) argue BOTH sides to the argument.
Adding Burnett (instead of Peavy) has it’s advantages as well. Would the rotation be as strong? Nope. But we’d still have Escobar to keep (or trade for something else), along with the other prospects being offered in the Peavy deal.
Like I’ve said all along, signing Burnett only costs money. Most importantly, it’s not MY MONEY.
If Wren wants the team to compete in 2009, Peavy is still a must. If he wants us to be “competitive” (big difference IMO), and be set up to REALLY compete in 2010, then Burnett is the answer.
A 2010 rotation of Hudson, JJJ, Burnett (if healthy) along with Hanson (I’ll assume he’ll be with the big-club to STAY by 2010 - if not sooner), is a VERY GOOD if not GREAT rotation.
Hell, one could argue that if privately, Wren is counting on Hudson returning around August, adding Burnett strengthens the club enough until that point.
But if as a fan, you are willing to have Wren mortage some future potential super-stars (Escobar & Gorkys), along with a guy like Morton or Jo-Jo that might turn the corner, for Peavy, then that is the money move no doubt.
But don’t try and convince me that Vazquez is “elite”. He’s not.
By EP
December 5, 2008 11:19 PM | Link to this
Yankee’s really want Burnett. He can’t be signed for less than 5 years @ 17 or 18 a year.
Should just give up Hanson or another good prospect and get Peavy and be done with it.
By Torn Rotator
December 5, 2008 11:23 PM | Link to this
N8, It’s DEFINITELY not your money. I firmly believe the Players Association should see what Secretary Paulsen is doing after he gets terminated in 7 weeks. I believe the players should have him serve as an arbitrator for all decisions.
By Interested Observer
December 5, 2008 11:25 PM | Link to this
Rosenthal is reporting that the A’s pulled out of the running for Furcal after he rejected a 4-year offer though to be between 35-40 million.
By brian
December 5, 2008 11:30 PM | Link to this
EP - you don’t just give up Hanson and be done with it.
Hanson is a gem. Homegrown prospect ready to hit the big leagues with the strong potential to be a legitimate ace. You don’t just throw him in to get Peavy
By nolie
December 6, 2008 12:26 AM | Link to this
Wren did today, discussing the Vazquez trade, among other things. He actually makes a pretty good argument for Vazquez (I was really ambivalent towards him at the outset, I’ll admit Steve O
maybe things are changing a bit. John S could talk about them, he and Bobby just never weighed them all that much depending much more on their scout’s evaluations. I remember that article that Moby mentioned last night , the GM discussion which included John S and Beane and a coupla others IIRC. John and the Braves were billed as one of the least users of stats though John was certainly aware of them and could talk about them, Billy B of course was the epitome of stat-hood. Maybe FW is more inclined to use them , but I’m still betting they will weigh them less than their scouting dept’s evaluations.
By Weldon
December 6, 2008 12:28 AM | Link to this
N8 - I agree with most of your 11:00 post. I just think it’s silly to expect that kind of nuance from a press conference. The whole point of the thing is to blow smoke.
Wren doesn’t think we’re stupid. Nobody believes Vazquez is elite in the sense that he is a Jake Peavy type of pitcher. But I think you could maybe apply the word elite to a pitcher who’s in the top ten in strikeouts among active pitchers, which I think he is. Not to sound too much like a sports agent…
But to sum up, a pitcher like Vazquez is necessary but not sufficient. I think Wren has more or less said that , too, when he stressed the need to add another arm to the rotation. I guess I’m just trying to stick up for Wren a little bit here because if he isn’t the answer, we’re gonna be in the wilderness for a while.
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
December 6, 2008 12:37 AM | Link to this
Aside from my consistent criticism toward management, there is reason to be optimistic and it has nothing to do with Javier Vasquez or A.J. Burnett.
I’m talking about Smoltz and Glavine.
If the two of them recover from surgery and are ready for spring training, look out. This is a completely different team. The Braves go from being just another middling .500 team to the big dog of the N.L. East.
I’m well aware of the need to rebuild the outfield, defense and offense. These problems are far easier to remedy than you might think. It’s the starting pitching that must first come together. Until this happens, all the rest remains on the back burner.
I’ll give Frank Wren a pat on the back for the signing of David Ross. He is a much bigger acquisition than most might think. He is a legit defender with a rocket arm, call a good game, has some pop in his bat and brings instant veteran leadership.
Atlanta is hunting for a big right handed bat to sandwich between Chipper and McCann in the line up. Ryan Ludwick is no flash in the pan. All it took was good health and the opportunity to play everyday for the young slugger to realize his potential.
The problem is if the Braves move KJ in trade for Ludwick, they are only playing musical chairs with the line up and defense. Orlando Hudson would seem to be the answer to this problem? Why the Braves have not made a real competitive offer for the gold glove second baseman is beyond be. The worst case scenario is that KJ just moves back to the OF if Hudson were to be signed.
Some other names to consider: Milton Bradley, Juan Rivera and Gabe Kapler. I love Raul Ibanez, unfortunately he swings from the left side of the plate and the Braves are primarily in need of a right handed bat.
By Bubdylan
December 6, 2008 12:38 AM | Link to this
Why are Burnett’s DL tendencies supposed to change suddenly? Not a hypothetical question. I trust that the Braves and Yanks have some reason to hope he’s about to be a different guy, injury-wise, for the next 4-5 years. What’s the theory?
By nolie
December 6, 2008 12:52 AM | Link to this
But to sum up, a pitcher like Vazquez is necessary but not sufficient Weldon
I like that phrasing… and I agree with it too.
By N8
December 6, 2008 1:18 AM | Link to this
Weldon
Agreed. Also, after skimming my 11:00 post, I noticed to statements that had glaring “issues” with them.
First, I stated:
“But make no mistake about my opinion of him. Whether he pitches in the 1-2-3-4 or 5 spot in the order (provided he stays healhty like he has in his career), he WILL BE a fine addition to our bullpen.”
Obviously, I meant to our rotation, not bullpen.
Then, I proceeded to NOT mention Vazquez when thinking about the 2010 rotation in the following statement:
“A 2010 rotation of Hudson, JJJ, Burnett (if healthy) along with Hanson (I’ll assume he’ll be with the big-club to STAY by 2010 - if not sooner), is a VERY GOOD if not GREAT rotation.”
I’m sure most of you figured it out (or ignored the post all together, but either way, I figured I’d clarify it.
Bubdylan
Great question. I guess that’s why GM’s get paid the big-bucks, (and get fired, when they make the wrong decisions).
Coach
Agree with you (on the surface) about Ibanez, but have you checked out his splits against RH and LH pitchers? The guy is virtually the exact same hitter from both sides of the plate. Smaller sample size against lefties, than righties, but he’s consistent none the less.
Of course if we were to make the playoffs, and get to post-season ball where there are many lefty/righty match-ups in crunch time moments, Bobby would certainly like to have a righty to split Chipper and McCann up, since he goes by the book so much.
But even you shouldn’t need to be reminded, that the 95 team that won the WS was VERY left-handed heavy with Chipper (he was much better from the left-side - POWER WISE - early in his career), McGriff, Justice and Klesko.
So if the hitters are GOOD hitters, I don’t care which side of the plate they hit from.
Wren could always go out and get a RH bat at the deadline, if it looks like a weakness. Hell, two things could happen.
Francouer could actually step up this year (not counting on it), and be that RH bat everybody seems to be craving. Or he could stink so bad that Wren is forced to replace HIM with a different RH bat.
Just my $86.02 (just saying $0.02, didn’t seem appropriate with the length of my posts).
By N8
December 6, 2008 1:22 AM | Link to this
Weldon
“The whole point of the thing is to blow smoke.”
I forgot to add in my last post, that this line gave me a thought, that might have some validity to it (or maybe not). But since trade negotiations and free agent signings usually have a ton of “posturing” and gamesmanship going on when it comes to public statements. Maybe Bobby and Wren wanted to make Towers think that they’re fine with Vazquez and pursuing Burnett, and see if he comes crawling back.
Probably putting too much stock into a simple comment from Bobby (who never has anything but nice things to say about anybody to the public). But maybe not.
Just more fodder for us all to banter over.
By Wayn-o
December 6, 2008 1:23 AM | Link to this
Lets just dream… we get AJ & Peavy…. Smoltz & Glavine are healthy…. 7 man rotation?? it would keep everyone healthy.
Peavy, Burnett, Vasquez, Jurrjens, Smoltz, Glavine then all these talks about Tommy Hanson coming up next season. Hudson’s back after that. Like I said let’s Dream.
I would let the old guys act as one pitcher, Glavine 4 inn. & Smoltz 4 inn. Campillo in long relief & bring Hanson up in the 2nd half for bullpen or SP relief.
By David O'Brien
December 6, 2008 1:25 AM | Link to this
Big ol’ pulled-pork sandwich at Fox Bros. BBQ tonight. Ummm. With mac & cheese, collards, and brisket chili side dishes. Oh, yeah….
I’ll take Florida by 14 and OU by 28 tomorrow….
By the way, any of our Nashville-area denizens familiar with the band The Clutters? Talk about a great, unheralded band.
I’ve been blasting their 2007 CD Don’t Tell A Word in my car for the past three days, and I swear I don’t know why that CD didn’t show up on a bunch of best-of lists, because it absolutely was one of the 25 best albums of that year. Freakin’ terrific, raw, country-punk, garage-band power. Love it, love it, love it. Play their song “9999 (Ways to Hate Us)” a couple of times and you’ll say, where did this greatness come from?
By David O'Brien
December 6, 2008 1:36 AM | Link to this
By the way, Wren never called Vazquez “elite.” He said he was another good piece for the staff and could lead the young pitchers by setting a tone with a lot of quality innings and by being a professional who handles himself well.
That was all.
It was Bobby Cox who called him elite….
ONE OTHER THING: Please take note of this, a few of you trying to build the Flowers/Peavy thing into something it was not.
As I saw this Flowers-was-a-dealbreaker folly building steam here on the blog, I wanted to find out, if at all possible, whether there was anything actually to it, whether he might have been what stood between the Braves and Padres getting a Peavy deal done.
Folks, he was not, By all accounts from people I’ve talked to who should know. I was pretty certain of this already, since I had asked a San Diego writer at last month’s GM meetings to ask a Padres team official about Flowers and whether the Padres wanted him or not.
The official told that writer that Flowers was a decent prospect, but not someone they were clamoring to get, mainly because San Diego scouts had doubts whether he could be a good major league catcher (and these two scouts happened to be there when Flowers had a four-homer binge over a three-game span in the Fall League, including one homer that they thought went over 450 feet.)
So I asked again today, in a conversation with that same San Diego writer, whether Flowers’ name had come up in his recent conversations with Towers regarding the stalled talks with the Braves, etc. Again, “no” was the answer. They weren’t real high on Flowers.
From the Braves’ side, I was told the same thing last week, that Flowers was not someone the Padres had been hot on in negotiations, that he had nothing to do with the talks stalling.
Gorkys, yes, they were high on. And I was told by a San Diego person that Charlie Morton was also someone the Padres were high on, and that Braves wanted them to take Jo-Jo instead. The Padres weren’t too high on that idea; they wanted Morton, not Reyes.
Even that, however, was almost certainly not what prevented the deal from happening.
But back to Flowers: To repeat, he wasn’t a factor in terms of a deal getting done. Padres weren’t big on Flowers. Just wanted to get that out there, so we can stop with that revisionist history on the machinations of this non-deal.
By Bubdylan
December 6, 2008 1:39 AM | Link to this
Love it, love it, love it. Play their song “9999 (Ways to Hate Us)” us a couple of times and you’ll say, where did this greatness come from? -DOB
You got some sleep, didn’t you? Sound much better.
By David O'Brien
December 6, 2008 1:51 AM | Link to this
Bruce, I covered the Braves in Maddux’s last two seasons here, 16-wins seasons in 2002 and 2003. And covered the Marlins for the seven seasons before that, so I saw his greatness in person quite often….
Congratulations on your Jayhawks� invite to the Insight Bowl. I remember when my Gamecocks went to back-to-back bowls for the first time. It�s a good feeling.Weldon
If that was sincere, thanks. It’s a good step for Mangino, who’s putting together a quality program.
If that was condescending, I’d just ask: Why you want to be like that? And I’d also point out, going to back-to-back bowl games probably was a little more important for your school, as it doesn’t play that other major sport on such an elite level. You know, the one with the round ball that’s shot into a basket….
Oh, and as for Prado’s defense, I said “solid,” not great. Maybe I should’ve said adequate or slightly above, because that’s more what I meant by that adjective, not very good, just solid, as is solid-if-unspectacular. Doesn’t make flashy plays, but makes the routine ones, etc.
No, Prado’s not great defensively. You’re right. But good enough, probably to try there for a year if they have to, if they decide to trade Kelly and not replace him right away.
By Bubdylan
December 6, 2008 2:05 AM | Link to this
If any of you Barbeque lovers go through Opelika, Alabama, right off the interstate is Chuck’s Barbeque. It’s really great. They’ve been in some national discussions a few times, and I think it was USA Today that ranked them in the top 10 college town (Auburn) BBQ joints. Vinegar based. The plate they call the “chopped plate” is my favorite.
Oh, but on the side orders, avoid the brunswick stew. I think they only serve it so they can hear Opelikans mispronounce it all day to hilarious effect (I worked there during college). People say Burnswick, and Brummeck mostly, but my all time favorite was BLAMMICK. Cross my heart, this lady asked for Blammick Stew. I had to sprint to the kitchen to keep from laughing in her face.
By Chipper 4 MVP
December 6, 2008 2:18 AM | Link to this
MLB Trade Rumors says Furcal might agree to play 2nd base. Why not trade Kelly Johnson for outfield help and sign Furcal to play 2nd? I really think Furcal would sign for less to come back to Atlanta!!
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
December 6, 2008 2:18 AM | Link to this
Florida by 14? Wow O’Brien. I’ll have to keep that in mind.
I guess we will never know exactly what the deal breaker was concerning the Peavy trade. I still believe that Khalil Greene was part of the proposed trade.
I’m assuming that it was Peavy and Greene for Escobar, Morton, Hernandez, Locke and one more player. The one thing that never added up was Peavy’s demand for his no trade clause to be extended through the rest of his current contract. Atlanta doesn’t do no trade clauses. In my opinion, that may have been the deal breaker.
I read the blurb about Smoltz. It doesn’t surprise me one bit. The man is bionic, no really, he is. If you didn’t already know it, Both John Smoltz and Randy Johnson are double jointed. It ‘s the reason they have both had some many injuries and yet been able to continue to pitch in spite of going under the knife so many times. It’s sort of a blessing and curse.
By Bubdylan
December 6, 2008 2:27 AM | Link to this
Coach, you know who else was double jointed? Cheech & Chong.
By N8
December 6, 2008 2:59 AM | Link to this
DOB
“By the way, Wren never called Vazquez “elite.”….. It was Bobby Cox who called him elite….”
I thought I had mentioned or acknowledged that it was Bobby who said it. I looked back and couldn’t find it. But I do recall saying that Bobby rarely has publicly said anything but good things about players, especially ones they acquire. So I get it. But I think even when taking into consideration that Bobby has all of his guys’ backs, that “elite” was a poor choice of words.
Also, thanks a bunch on clarifying the Flowers/Towers info. I also had thought I read somewhere recently, that Wren had refused to include Flowers in the trade. Now, taking into consideration that many of us have been trolling EVERY possible rumor sight out there (I’m partial to Rosenthal, other than you, he seems to be on the ball most of the time - even thought many of the times, all he’s doing is quoting you or saying basically what you are reporting), so there has been so much banter spewed about involving the Braves/Peavy rumor (along with the Cubs), that I took it to heart. When all along, it’s what those sites usually say it is…. RUMORS.
That’s good to know that Flowers wasn’t a deal breaker. It makes the Vazquez deal look a little better.
Even you have to admit, to an extent that if Flowers was the deal breaker for Peavy, that it would have been silly for Wren to trade him for Vazquez instead of Peavy. Which of course why he traded for Vazquez. LOL!
Speaking of Prado and KJ, and I’m keeping in mind you don’t wanna pizz either of them off, if they remain with the Braves… who do you think is the better defensive 2B between the two? Taking all offensive possibility out of the equation, just their defense? I lean towards Prado, though KJ has shown great improvement and I realize he’s worked his tail off with Hubbard trying to improve.
The only part about KJ that “worries” me, is that damn backhand play or anything that he has to go to his right on. While not as bad as it was in 2007, he still makes me nervous everytime a ball is hit to his right. It just so happens that many of the times on balls straight up the middle, Escobar gets to some of those balls (including some on KJ’s side of 2B).
Not to make this an epic, but it appears that I’m the only one still up (working late tonight & all week for that matter), you mentioned them (Padres) wanting Morton and the Braves wanting them to take Jo-Jo.
Can one assume that the Braves are much higher on Morton then? I am. But at the same time, I share some of the same concerns about the rotation possibly NOT having any lefties in it. Which I think is more important than having righty/lefty balance in the batting order.
Also, I saw somebody the other day on the blog talking about Chuck James possibly contributing in late 2009. Didn’t you say at some point that he’s pretty much out for the year? I can’t remember.
By BA
December 6, 2008 3:20 AM | Link to this
DOB, relax- you can skip this one. It’s not your department.
Dear AJC:
Please, remove that picture of soon-to-be Atlanta Brave A.J. Burnett, and post a photo of the Mad Dog dropping an F-bomb into his glove fifteen years ago.
Now, let’s dig in to this n8 novel…
By BA
December 6, 2008 3:35 AM | Link to this
I respect that Johnson has put a LOT of effort into his defense. It’s one thing when an infielder “converts” to an outfield position- but going to other way? How often does that ever happen in MLB?
But Prado is (slightly) better defensively, for one reason- bonehead mistakes. Prado makes half as many as Johnson and (to be fair) Yunel Escobar.
Those mistakes, and the maddening inconsistency with the bat- Prado is a guy that could probably hit a steady .280 in the two slot. Is that better or worse than a guy that hits .230 for two months and .350 for one month?
Fact is, every little offensive flaw wouldn’t be magnified if we, say, added a couple of pitchers like Burnett and Vazquez, and enjoyed the benefit of a full year with Gonzalez/Soriano/Moylan.
And the bionic bearded icon. Look, if you don’t believe this guy will be back, you’re crazy. If a little Tommy Johnson surgery was going to put this guy down, it would have happened the first six times he had the procedure.
By Bobby's Cox
December 6, 2008 5:00 AM | Link to this
But the guy [LF]does have to have power. And there aren’t a bevy of such players available who aren’t either owed a ton of money, are incapable of playing respectable defense, or looking to break the bank with long-term contracts. DOB
Seriously guys, DOB, Wren, baseball world, how is Nelson Cruz NOT the answer for LF in Atlanta?
He’s cheap, Has power, IS a run producer, great defense and arm, K’s a lot but hits a lot of bombs and has good OBP, and finally last year, produced a good batting average.
Cruz is just as risky as Ludwick, but he’s 2 years younger and he won’t cost us Kelly Johnson in a Ludwick trade either. As much as I would love Prado to start at 2nd, the Braves could keep both with Cruz.
Cruz is the perfect scenario, and would probably only cost us Brandon Jones and 2 pitching prospects (Locke/Parr/Redmond).
It’s the perfect scenario.
By the way, anyone notice that Prado is playing a bunch of LF for Los Tigres de Aragua in the winter leagues?
Now how does a Nelson Cruz trade sound?
By Bobby's Cox
December 6, 2008 5:06 AM | Link to this
Those mistakes, and the maddening inconsistency with the bat- Prado is a guy that could probably hit a steady .280 in the two slot. Is that better or worse than a guy that hits .230 for two months and .350 for one month? BA
Dude, BA, you’re gonna get an ear full in the morning.
I’ve listed Johnson’s splits and have favored prado’s bat all year over an inconsistent johnson’s in an inconsistant lineup and my head was wanted on a platter.
Easy man.
But I’ll take the consistency anytime, albeit the braves find some more umph in the outfield. The achilles, Francouer, must step it up.
By richbrave
December 6, 2008 6:35 AM | Link to this
WAYNE in UTAH:
Nice take on BISHER’s blog.
By Frank Shab
December 6, 2008 6:59 AM | Link to this
Been a lontime reader here,but never a poster so here goes. Braves fan since 1959 living near Scranton PA. What I’d like to say is, with all the posts here, no one has mentioned what I think was the single most damaging play to the Braves chances in 2008. I believe it was on 7/7/08 against the Phils when Kelly Johnson dropped that popup with a lead and two out in the ninth inning. I was devastated and the Braves didn’t win for over a week. They never recovered from that. Remember, Little Leaguers always use two hands on a popup. Anyone care to opine out there?
By ncscoots
December 6, 2008 7:13 AM | Link to this
Oh, I suspect that, if you take the first 1500 AB of any good young player, you’ll find some maddening inconsistency. Johnson is not a sample of one, in that respect. Hitting at all the lineup spots, and trying to tailor his plate appearances to the different missions thereof, probably hasn’t helped him figure out just what kind of hitter he actually is, either.
As for his defense, he’ll probably always be thought of as inadequate by casual fans, regardless of improvement. Perceptions have a way of lingering, long after fact disproves the notion (if it does, in Kelly’s case). He’s only had a crash course and two seasons of reps, so it’s not as if he’s still average after playing 2B all his career.
And, believe me, anyone who thinks he’ll never get better never saw Marcus Giles play in the minors. Marcus was an absolute butcher, and he turned into a pretty good defender, wouldn’t you say? Experience alone will make Johnson a better defender, in the years to come.
By richbrave
December 6, 2008 7:46 AM | Link to this
Salute “Maddog.” Best pitcher in your prime I ever saw.
By oletimer
December 6, 2008 8:01 AM | Link to this
Frank Shab that 6:59 AM post is one I totally remember. Seemed like that was the down fall of the season. It just took too long for the Braves to recover.
By Elmer
December 6, 2008 8:12 AM | Link to this
This Burnett sgning with the Braves is a long shot. I see the Yanks closing in.
By NCBravesFan
December 6, 2008 8:13 AM | Link to this
I remember the 3 inning starts by too many pitchers, an overworked bullpen, spotty hitting, injuries to key players and disappointing years from a lot of hitters.
The botched pop-up? One boneheaded play that got way more attention than it deserved in my book.
By TommyP
December 6, 2008 8:23 AM | Link to this
Frank Shab: My friend, that Kelly Johnson dropped popup has been discussed ad nauseam for months and months.
It might not have been discussed recently but we’re in the offseason and done with the “how the season went to hell” discussion.
Very cool to see a little money spent on the bench. To me, this is the major difference between Schuerholz and Wren in terms of styles.
David Ross isn’t anything spectacular but he’s better than the crap we’ve had as a backup C for several years.
By Yars
December 6, 2008 8:34 AM | Link to this
If Burnett wants to play for a team close to his Maryland home, how is that going to help us get him? When players on other teams think of the Atlanta Braves, I wonder now what comes to mind? Sure, we still are a 1st class organization. Bobby runs a tight clubhouse which is good. Perhaps free agent players now think of us as a middle of the pack type team in a very tough division? It’s one thing if a player is traded to the Braves. It’s another if they are thinking about signing. If we can’t sign Burnett, it will then be interesting what Wren plans on doing. I say re-open the Peavy talks. Grant him full no trade protection. This is Peavy we’re talking about. Kinda rather have him that AJ. Regarding all this Kelly Johnson talk, no way I would trade him for Ludwick. The guy had a fluke ‘08 season, & with it being impossible to predict what Frenchy will give us in ‘09, if we do get Ludwick, we could have a really bad OF in ‘09, or a horribly average one. Prado excels in the utility role. Sure, he’s a tad better on defense than KJ, but if he were to play let’s say, 150 games at 2B in ‘09, what type offensive numbers do you see him putting up? .260/5/50? We’re talking about Prado being our everyday 2B if KJ is traded. KJ is only gonna get better at the plate & his defense will only get better. He’s the type of player that we should build around, along with McCann, Yunel, & hopefully Frenchy & Schafer. That’s a nice young core group of players. now playing: sun & the rainfall by depeche mode.
By Coach Smith
December 6, 2008 8:40 AM | Link to this
Any Chance that the BRAVES made this FIRST OFFER to AJ BURNETT in hopes it would push TOWERS to get the PEAVY thing done as soon as AJ rejects the offer?
I am throwing this out there because it is unlikely BURNNETT takes the first offer….he has no reason to
BUT it does show, along with the trade for VAZQUEZ, that the BRAVEs are serious about moving on and maybe that puts pressure on TOWERS to get a deal done for PEAVY….especially since he now NEEDS A SS!!!!!!!!!
By TommyP
December 6, 2008 8:44 AM | Link to this
As far as the LF goes, there sure aren’t a lot of options out there. With that said, I wonder if Wren would get a bit creative with that hole.
Edwin Encarnacion is available from Cincy. Yes, he’s started at 3B his whole career up to this point but he’s done it rather poorly. He’s pretty athletic, however, and you’d think he might be able to make the rather easy transition to LF.
I would think it wouldn’t take a ton to net him but it would probably take a few minor leaguers or a Jo-Jo and another 1 or 2 players.
He’s right handed, young (25…26 in January), inexpensive (arb. eligible the next 3 years), athletic and shows some pop/plate awareness.
Thoughts?
By Austin
December 6, 2008 8:44 AM | Link to this
DOB
Florida by 14…are you serious?
By John Fisher
December 6, 2008 8:46 AM | Link to this
Hey DOB,
Another great column, Good work.
I know anything can happen, but IF you had to predict the Braves 2009 rotation, what would it be??
Just wondering
By Couch Tater
December 6, 2008 8:48 AM | Link to this
Frank Shab - Ha Ha, I knew you would get a few responses on that one. You may want to read the archived blog beginning with the infamous drop on 6/6/08 @ 10:28 and Dave’s blog of 6/14.
To all of my Dawg friends - I know, I know, you’re thinking who is the lesser of two evils this afternoon? You don’t have to say “Roll Tide”, but maybe a “come on Bama” or two. Roll Tide.
By johnsoncountyrednecks
December 6, 2008 8:53 AM | Link to this
One bright spot about the coming season Corky won’t be back.Bye Corky and just think you beat out Javy Lopez and Brian Pena as the back up catcher……go figure
By TommyP
December 6, 2008 8:57 AM | Link to this
CouchTater: As a Dawg fan, I’ll have NO problem saying “Roll Tide” this afternoon.
No problem at all.
I assume you’re a Bama fan. Good luck on wrapping up a great season.
By keylargo
December 6, 2008 9:00 AM | Link to this
Been a lontime reader here,but never a poster so here goes. Braves fan since 1959 living near Scranton PA. What I’d like to say is, with all the posts here, no one has mentioned what I think was the single most damaging play to the Braves chances in 2008. I believe it was on 7/7/08 against the Phils when Kelly Johnson dropped that popup with a lead and two out in the ninth inning.Frank Shab
Frank, there are two sides to every story. I remember that KJ dropped the popup after a long run to an area between him, Tex and Francoeur. His error let in the tying run, but he recovered and threw out the winning run at home.
The Braves came to bat in the bottom of the ninth and Johnson ripped a double to the wall in right center, but stayed there as Chipper and Tex could not get him in.
The bullpen then let the Phillies score the winning run in extra innings and the Braves could not counter.
And Frank, I don’t see how you’ve never seen it mentioned before because people bring it up on every blog. Here is one from this very blog.
By Arkansas Braves Fan
December 5, 2008 3:28 PM | Link to this
All this great talk about Kelly Johnson is silly, good hitter, but a freaking liability at 2nd base. Everything he does well as hitter is overshadowed by his inability to catch a routine pop up.
By Random
December 6, 2008 9:03 AM | Link to this
Robbie T: “Jeff Francoeurs problem is not his ankle and foot.Its his knowledge of the strike zone and inability to distinguish between a fastball and a slider.”
hIS 2008 defensive DECLINE can, I think, be ascribed to his ankle/foot injury.
I too would be interested in hearing an update on that front.
PS: Would have been — I see DOB addressed that last night.
Thanks, DOB.
By Philliesuk
December 6, 2008 9:22 AM | Link to this
As someone above said, our season ended last year when Kelly dropped the ball.
It’s a sad day when Greg Maddux retires. It’s hard for me to believe that the Braves had one of the top 5 pitchers of all time. He was on a different level from even a Jake Peavy or Roy Haladay. If you look at his numbers, they are almost hard to believe. Sometimes I put in one of his old games just to watch him pitch.
I really hope AJ signs with us. Debate it all you want, but he’s the best pitcher available not named CC. He will also give us POSSIBLY the best pitching staff outside of the Maddux era.
I’m still hoping for an AJ signing, a trade for a 40HR bat (for Escobar), and a Furcal signing.
By Random
December 6, 2008 9:22 AM | Link to this
THE BEAR: “How many times last year did we pray for a SINGLE when we had RISP? We lost twenty something one run games”
“twenty something”?
Shootin’ from the hip, eh?
“However I am not as sure we need an ACE as much as we need a collection of pitchers who can keep their team in the hunt for a victory that night. A win by one run is just as good as a shutout.”
Agreed — we’re gonna have to grow our own ace. Acquiring some other team’s ace is totally unaffordable.
“Jurrjens is the real deal and will only get better. Hanson is going to be a horse and could easily be at the top of the rotation by this time next year. I think he is that good.”
Agree again — I think we’ve all got our fingers crossed on this rosy prospect.
“While Peavy is truly an ACE he is not worth the additional 3-4 wins he will give us over AJ if he costs us all those key players as well as the additional $12 mil it will cost to buy Furcal.
Agree again and again — I’d much rather keep emotional, passive-aggressive, resentful Escobar — his fire can always be redirected for rather than against the Braves.
“AS for LF, go buy one, don’t give up a valuable property such as KJ who is going to show us all what he is made of in 09.”
Agree, again and again and again. Trading any pice of our projected line-up for “more offense” is actually a zero gain offensively.
By Raddad
December 6, 2008 9:25 AM | Link to this
Dear Frank Wren and to all the decesion makers of the Atlanta Braves. Please sign Greg Maddux to a one day contract and have him retire a Atlanta Brave. Thats the way it should be.
By Chopdawg
December 6, 2008 9:28 AM | Link to this
CouchTater, I assure you most DAWGS can holler “Roll Tide” a lot easier than we could even whisper “go gato…” ahh I can’t even write it.
Besides, how cool would it be for the SEC as a conference, to have three consecutive football nat’l championships won by three different teams?
By GSU-Lee
December 6, 2008 9:32 AM | Link to this
DOB, I agree with your conference title game predictions (and I will add the Hokies by three in the who-gives-a-crap game) and I was curious of two things- Do you think Oklahoma should have jumped Texas and do you think we need a playoff system?
By NCBravesFan
December 6, 2008 9:33 AM | Link to this
Tyler Kepner of the NY Times reported that Scott Boras is asking for $18m/year for five years for Derek Lowe. I suspect AJ’s best move is to wait a bit and see how that process unfolds, especially since both the Yanks and Red Sox may be interested in Lowe.
By Philliesuk
December 6, 2008 9:44 AM | Link to this
Why is everyone still whining about the Vazquez trade? We trading an unproven prospect, so big deal. The majority of people complaining have never seen Flowers swing a bat; they’re just going on an AJC story that hyped him beyond belief and some good numbers in the AZ league. Get over it.
i’ll say it again: To have a great rotation, you need solid #4 and #5 starters, not scrubs like Jo-Jo Reyes and Chuck James. Do you want three great starting pitchers, only to tank the next two games? Vazquez gives us one of the best (if not the best) #4 starters in the game.
He’s not a #1. He’s not a #2, or even a #3. Who cares. He’s just as important: a back-end rotation guy who will give us 200 innings and keep our bullpen fresh.
Enough.
By Efrim
December 6, 2008 9:58 AM | Link to this
Steve from OH
Re: your 10:25 last night, it is very good to see those terms come out of Frank Wren’s mouth. Makes me very happy. While I agree that outfield defense is important, the Braves need for power is so dire, that I would sacrifice left field defense. I’m not sure what Pat Burrell is going to command on the free agent market, but adding him to the Braves lineup would make them much more effective against left handed pitching:
Escobar
Johnson
Jones
Burrell
McCann
Francoeur
Kotchman
Blanco
Against right handers, you’d just flip flop McCann-Burrell and Kotchman-Francouer.
But like Wren said, they probably aren’t interested in someone like Burrell. If it were to keep us from dealing Johnson or Escobar(or “top prospects”), than I would sign him…..to no more than a two year deal. Just not sure if he’ll get more, probably will.
By ernesto
December 6, 2008 10:02 AM | Link to this
Philliesuk (yes, indeed they do) I would be excited if Vazquez is was going to be our 4 or 5, but it looks like he’s going to be our 2 or 3.
Ouch.
By Lew
December 6, 2008 10:10 AM | Link to this
It still breaks me up that people are counting on Smoltz and/or Glavine to be back and Hudson to contribute mightily in August.
Y’all-Smoltz is not starting to throw until the end of December. From reports, Glavine not until January. Should either be able to pitch at all (and it is NOT a done deal), do you seriously (like Coach says) think that they will be ready for Spring Training and the beginning of the season? Even if they DO come back (and I’ll NEVER bet against Smoltz), don’t expect them until May or June.
As for Hudson-How many times have we discussed the recovery time from Tommy Johnson surgery (and Bobby’s Cox-that is NOT what Smoltz just had-it was his rotator cuff and labrum-shoulder surgery)? August will be a year. It could well take Hudson (a starter who pitches more than an inning every several days like Gonzo) a year and a half to fully recover and to look like his former self. I certainly would not count on him coming back and contributing greatly to a pennant drive or shoring up the rotation. Hell-we’ll be lucky if 09 sees him dealing with tearing scar tissue and adhesions-a quite common occurrence with TJ recipients.
Oh yeah-Let’s see how Moylan does too (not to mention Soriano), before we brag about how dominating our bullpen is.
Face it folks-Life could end up being quite good with our walking wounded, should they come back strong but after last year’s everything that could go wrong, did go wrong, I’m not holding my breath and turning Deep Purple-especially when talking of two 40+ year old pitchers returning from potential career ending surgery. VORP Happens-way TOO much.
By Serge
December 6, 2008 10:11 AM | Link to this
hIS 2008 defensive DECLINE can, I think, be ascribed to his ankle/foot injury.
Not really. His defensive decline. Can be ascribed from the fact that he had Andruw Jones in 07 and Mark Kotsay in 08. Andruw Jones as a plus defender in CF, Mark Kotsay was one of the worst in the leauge. Having more ground to cover, will expose some of his deficencies, and thus make him look like a worse defender.
His ankle had very little to do with it.
By McFann O –[zzz]
December 6, 2008 10:15 AM | Link to this
Keylargo—
Good points at 9:00. That’s how I looked at it…he was in no-man’s land, and threw out the winning run and all that. And heck, didn’t Boyer walk the leadoff guy in that inning?
People have really beat that poor dead horse, Popup, to the ground…and now there’s a big hole where it once laid.
By TexasBrave
December 6, 2008 10:21 AM | Link to this
He’s not a #1. He’s not a #2, or even a #3. Who cares. He’s just as important: a back-end rotation guy who will give us 200 innings and keep our bullpen fresh. Philliesuk
Agree that he is an excellent addition as a #4 Starter. The problem is that Frank got him to be our #3 or even our #2 depending on how Bobby wants to set it up with he and JJ. If Vazquez was actually to be our #4 then we would still need to fine another pitcher to go along with our ace at the #2 or 3 slot depending on where Bobby places JJ. DOB said that Wren is only looking for one more starter and that’s it. Thus Vazquez at least will be our 3rd starter this season unless by some miracle Smoltz and/or Glavine make a comeback to the starting rotation.
Lost in all this is the thought that JJ is being considered as the #2 starter. Great he is and will be, but he is one year removed from his rookie season and still has some growing pains left. As our third starter he would have room to grow and develop without that added pressure.
By travis
December 6, 2008 10:21 AM | Link to this
The resoning behind Peavy not wanting to come to Atlanta baffles me…He was teamates with Greg Maddox in San Diego and you would think with Greg’s input about Atlanta’s organization it would be a no brainer…or would it? One might think that Maddox found himself in the doghouse with Braves front office over that arbitration year that cost the Braves Millwood…maybe Greg had some bad things to say about Braves management…never know.
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
December 6, 2008 10:25 AM | Link to this
Lew, Smoltz threw has thrown off of a mound already…
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
December 6, 2008 10:30 AM | Link to this
I know I am probably reading much more into the Furcal situation than I should, but with him rejecting a 4-year offer; I wonder if there is something behind the scenes with the Braves. With reports that he may be willing to play 2nd (not sure if they are accurate), and with the Braves willingness to use KJ to get an OF bat, I wonder if he is waiting for that move so he can sign with the Braves. I know, I know…conspiracy type theory, but just wondering “out loud”.
By Dadgum
December 6, 2008 10:31 AM | Link to this
DOB…as for your Paragraph:Martin Prado will never be the hitter Johnson is, but he’s a solid defensive second baseman and a good line-drive hitter who plays the game the right way, has plenty of versatility, and could probably hold down the fort at second base for a season, or until the Braves could get a better player there.
I assume you are speaking of HR potential. Me (and a hell of a lot of others) will take Prado over Johnson’s bat in the every day lineup. Prado would also be a SIGNIFICANT upgrade defensively when given the starting assignment at 2nd.
I have watched Prado over the years here in Richmond and of course watched Kelly in Atlanta. I mean, except for a power streak here or there, I don’t see what will keep Kelly in Atlanta if a trade scenario arises. Really Kelly is just not as good a hitter or fielder as Prado day in and day out. Prado will make more consistent contact as you mentioned for line drives but I feel he should hit for a higher average and OBP as an every day player too.
Don’t anyone sell Prado short. That better 2nd baseman that the Braves may need in the future is already on the team. If Kelly is a defensive liability in LF then he should be traded as per the numerous posts here indicated that he would be for Ludwick. Just my two cents.
Also, just wondering (because I can’t recall), is Kelly Johnson really that bad defensively in LF? I mean wouldn’t his bat be the type the Braves are looking for albeit from the left side. Can’t Kelly with his speed relearn the position which would allow Prado to play 2nd. Seems to me that is the perfect combination. Sometimes the answer is right in front of you.
Rock on………I’ll take ‘Bama and the 14 for a beer or 12. Takers?
By wiki
December 6, 2008 10:34 AM | Link to this
DOB…..If the Cubs are trying to cut payroll to make room for Peavy, maybe it would create an opportunity for the Braves, or anyone else for that matter, to get any of their expendable players at a discount, both in terms of player and monetary compensation. Not that the Braves would want Marquis but rumor is they would eat part of his salary in a trade. Now I don’t know if they have anything of value to the Braves. Any thoughts?
By Lew
December 6, 2008 10:39 AM | Link to this
Jason-If he did (and I seem to remember DOB telling us it would be later this month), it was just recently and do you seriously think he’ll be ready for Spring Training or for the start of the season? Believe me-throwing off a mound is barely the first step. It is a far cry from pitching to ML ballplayers and successfully getting them out.
Dude, I’m all in favor of wishful thinking, but it’s way too early to be optimistic, much less penciling him into the rotation or the pen like some here seem to believe is going to happen.
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
December 6, 2008 10:48 AM | Link to this
Lew, not necessarily, but it is encouraging that he is ahead of schedule. Click here for the article.
By Lew
December 6, 2008 10:51 AM | Link to this
Jason-Well, apparently Smoltz’s session on the mound went well (according to the Braves’ website). However, the Braves are not even ready to offer a contract. I think they’re waiting to see if there are any setbacks now that he IS throwing from a mound. It’s still WAY early in the process. Like I said, I’ll never bet against the Bearded Icon, and would love to see him return (we damn well need him healthy), but I think I’ll wait a while and see how it all shakes out first before I go running down the street in gleeful rapture (too damned hard to make it back up the hill at my age).
Let’s see how things progress. After what happened the last couple years-especially last year-I’m not counting on it all falling Atlanta’s way yet.
What interested me in that particular article was not so much Smoltz’s progress, but the fact that Blaine Boyer has been working out with Smoltz this off season. Now THAT could have interesting consequences. It also says much about Boyer’s willingness to improve himself. Lord knows he couldn’t have a better mentor than Smoltzie.
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
December 6, 2008 11:00 AM | Link to this
Lew, I agree…way too early to pencil Smoltz into the rotation, but just wanted you to know that he is throwing at least. There is still a long way to go, and as you said; the Braves will still need to make an offer. But, it is encouraging. If he were able to be in the rotation, and I know that’s a huge IF, and the Braves sign AJ…wow!
By Steve McP
December 6, 2008 11:05 AM | Link to this
I don’t think Glavine will be coming back. Not only was he injured last season but the application of the Ques Tec strike zone was really frustrating him and I just don’t see him coming back. Combine that with Mad Dog’s retirement and he might just decide to make it a double whammy for the HOF voting in 2013.
On that HOF point - if Smoltz doesn’t make it back and retires without throwing in 2009 then that Cooperstown inaugural is going to be as hot a ticket as the one in DC coming up shortly.
By Doc Holliday
December 6, 2008 11:11 AM | Link to this
ernesto I dont see no problem with Vazquez being our 3rd pitcher…….. AJ + JJJ + Vazquez + Smoltz + Campillo/Glavine/Hanson
Things could look better……..thats true……….but its not as bad as ouch.
I just hope bobby remembers smoltz age and injury problems and dont intend to put him higher than 4th, at least not to start the season and he proves me wrong.
Of course it would be amazing if Braves could go ……….
Peavy + AJ + JJJ + Smoltz + Vazquez
And then Campillo and Glavine to the pen.
But we all know thats not going to happen.
By Joe M.
December 6, 2008 11:11 AM | Link to this
As someone above said, our season ended last year when Kelly dropped the ball.
Uh-huh, sure. The Braves only lost 90 games and finished 20 games out of first place. I’m really sure had that pop-up been caught, they’d have been World Series bound.
Do some of you people even think at all before you post?
By Epinephrine
December 6, 2008 11:18 AM | Link to this
DOB:
Thanks for the post about the Padres wanting Morton and the Braves insisting on JoJo. Frankly, that is best validation of Wren I can imagine. I am extremely reluctant to give up Morton-guy has great stuff and was pitching hurt for most of his tenure in the bigs last year. To “sell” him low, without seeing what he is truly capable of, would in my opinion be a huge mistake.
The fact that the Braves recognize that-especially in that they realize JoJo and Morton are not fungible-gives me confidence that Wren is proceeding carefully and intelligently in trying to address our needs.
Frankly, I’d much prefer: Burnett, JJJ, Vasquez, Morton, Hanson (Glavine) to Peavy, JJJ, Vasquez, Jojo, Hanson (Glavine).
Morton has the stuff and control to potentially be a good pitcher. JoJo has attitude issues and has consistently melted down despite perfect health.
Now…we just need Burnett.
By McFann O –[zzz]
December 6, 2008 11:19 AM | Link to this
Joe M. I’m really sure had that pop-up been caught, they’d have been World Series bound.
Oh yeah! Of course!
OK OK…if that popup had been caught, the Braves might have won one game against the Fillies at Turner Field…
I’m sure losing that game didn’t help their morale any, though.
By Yars
December 6, 2008 11:19 AM | Link to this
KJ took a crash course at 2B & isn’t as bad as some on here think. How long has Prado been playing 2B? Helluva lot longer. I know it’s kinda hard to predict what type numbers Prado will put up if he is our everyday 2B, but they will never match what KJ has put up the past 2 seasons with us. I also can’t believe how some still keep saying that our season ended when KJ dropped that pop up. Didn’t we finish, like 20 games out of 1st? 4th place was it? So we would have finished 18 games out if KJ had caught it. That’s how I look at it. Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t Chipper cost us a game or 2 with his poor defense in ‘08? Yunel as well? now playing: pork & beans by weezer.
By Marty
December 6, 2008 11:30 AM | Link to this
Dadgum - There is no objective reason to believe that Prado would be an upgrade over Kelly defensively at second base; to the contrary, Prado has actually played worse defense at second than Kelly. Prado’s fielding percentage at 2B in the majors is .962, with a range factor of 4.66, while Kelly’s are .979 and 4.68, respectively. Even in the minors, Prado’s fielding percentage (.982) was just slightly higher than Kelly’s ML number.
By Joe M.
December 6, 2008 11:31 AM | Link to this
But Prado is (slightly) better defensively, for one reason- bonehead mistakes. Prado makes half as many as Johnson and (to be fair) Yunel Escobar.
Actually, it is more the other way around. Prado has averaged one error every 61 innings in the majors (11 errors in 670 innings in the field.) Kelly Johnson has averaged one error for every 107 innings in the majors (28 errors in 3,000 innings).
Also Johnson has averaged only one error for every 84 innings at second base in his MLB career (28 errors in 2,351 innings at second base) compared to one error every 38 innings averaged by Prado at second base in his MLB career (7 errors in 267 major league innings at second base.)
By Cecil34
December 6, 2008 11:34 AM | Link to this
I have a much better feeling all around about aquiring Burnett than I do Peavy, in terms of what kind of success he will have here, including being healthy.
I don’t know why I feel that way, I just had this gut feeling that Peavy was not going to work. Never could generate any enthusiasm for it.
Now, Burnett on the other hand, I feel really good about. I want him here.
I really think he would be a better fit on this team than Peavy.
Just call it an ol’ baseball players’ hunch.
By rotty
December 6, 2008 11:35 AM | Link to this
It is a stretch financially but I can see Peavy wanting to come to ATL after they sign AJ (should that happen).
Since Wren does not seem likely to pick up a expensive FA OF he would have the money (with a slight payroll bump) to sign Peavy, AJ and Furcal.
If you are going to waltz into ST looking for OF help you better have a no questions asked dominant rotation & a real lead off hitter.
Peavy -11mm AJ - 15mm Vaz - 11.5mm (2yr rental) Furcal - 10mm (3 yr deal, 4th yr team option with some back loading) Ross - 1.5mm (2yr rental)
$49mm
We are not talking a 25-30mm payroll bump to make this happen. For Liberty a firm with $8 billion in revenue and a 1/2 billion in net income it can cough up 5-10mm here to radically transform the rotation.
Peavy Burnett Vaz JJ Hanson, Camp, JOJO (Morton goes to SD), Smoltz
Again pie in the sky-ish but they don’t need a Yankees level payroll to pull this off.
In 2010 if Hudson looks better you trade Vaz to make room for Hudson.
Oh the joy of the silly season. Everything seems possible. :)
By keylargo
December 6, 2008 11:39 AM | Link to this
Lew
Mark Bowman has some really good news for Braves’ fans.
ATLANTA — Whenever the Braves have discussed their projected rotation for the upcoming season, they’ve never forgotten the fact that it could include both John Smoltz and Tom Glavine.
In fact, it’s probably more accurate to say Atlanta’s brass is hoping that both of these organizational icons prove healthy enough to spend at least one more season together with the Braves. Coming off their respective season-ending surgeries, Smoltz and Glavine have both provided indication that they are looking forward to pitching again.
While Glavine just started playing catch earlier this week, Smoltz has been throwing for a little more than a month, and on Friday afternoon, he threw off a mound under the watchful eyes of Braves manager Bobby Cox and pitching coach Roger McDowell.
“John Smoltz was just outstanding today,” Cox said. “He threw fastballs, breaking balls, [split-finger fastballs] and changeups. If I was rating him on a scale of 1-10, I’d say he was a 6.5. He was really good.”
Blaine Boyer, who has been working out with Smoltz throughout the offseason, was equally impressed with the performance Smoltz provided while throwing off a mound for the first time since undergoing major shoulder surgery in June.
“The ball is just exploding out of his hands, and it’s just unbelievable, because he’s not even six months removed from his surgery,” Boyer said. “It’s absurd to see how good he’s throwing right now.”
After performing the shoulder surgery, noted surgeon Dr. James Andrews informed Smoltz and the Braves that he had to repair significant damage. Consequently, the veteran pitcher was forced to spend a few weeks wondering if he’d pitch again.
But less than two months later, Smoltz was enjoying pain-free rounds of golf and planning to pitch again. It’s unknown whether he has regained all of the strength in his shoulder. But he was definitely encouraged after throwing a football 55 yards a few weeks ago.
“He’s building his arm and his stamina,” Cox said. “His arm is perfectly sound as we speak. Hopefully it stays that way. He’s really of the mind-set to pitch and win. It went great today.”
Hot Stove
It will be another few weeks before Glavine can begin throwing off of a mound. But for now, he’s at least encouraged by the fact that everything seems sound with his left shoulder and left elbow, which were both repaired during a season-ending surgical procedure in August.
Providing more encouragement for Glavine was the fact that he didn’t feel any discomfort while completing three sets of 25 throws from a distance of 45 feet earlier this week.
“Everything felt good,” said the 42-year-old Glavine, who had never been on the disabled list before making three trips there this past season.
While the Braves don’t want to make Smoltz and Glavine feel like they’re being taken for granted, they also aren’t in a position where they can responsibly guarantee them a contract right now.
This stance could certainly change once Smoltz and Glavine provide more reason to believe that they are physically sound enough to pitch again.
Glavine, who returned to the Braves in 2008 after spending the previous five seasons with the Mets, doesn’t want to relive the frustrations that were present this past season, when he was pain-free for just three of his 13 starts.
But more importantly, he wants to see his storied career have a much happier ending.
“I don’t want to go through what I did last year,” Glavine said. “But at the same time, you don’t want to end your career with a season like that.”
Mark Bowman is a reporter for MLB.com.
By McFann O –[zzz]
December 6, 2008 11:40 AM | Link to this
Yars Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t Chipper cost us a game or 2 with his poor defense in ‘08? Yunel as well?
Yep…then there was that time against the Giants when McCann tried to nab a base runner at third by throwing ball four into left field—there were runners at first and second at the time…the guy was gonna get to third anyway.
That was embarrassing…
I think every player on the Braves cost the team at least one game with poor defense/pitching at some point last year.
By Lew
December 6, 2008 11:57 AM | Link to this
keylargo-Yes, I read that after Jason posted he had begun to throw. However, I’m just going to wait and see what happens. Things look good now, but how about scar tissue breaking up? How about if he tweaks the shoulder by exerting himself? Do we know that the shoulder will remain structurally sound? After all, Dr. Andrews said it looked worse than any other shoulder he had operated on..
When the Braves offer him the contract and schedule him for actual time against real hitting, then I’ll feel a lot better and maybe be willing to hope things will be all right. However, you DO need to keep in mind that while it IS John Smoltz we’re talking about, he IS 41 years old and has had five or so surgeries. There is still much potential for disaster striking. It’s a good sign, but that’s all it is until he starts a couple games and has no additional issues, like I said, no breath holding for me. If he can come back and be anything like the Smoltz of the past couple years, I’ll be thrilled. If not, well then we need to move on and I think Wren is doing just that-in case it’s necessary.
By athensmatt
December 6, 2008 12:02 PM | Link to this
hey DOB,
kinda new to the blog, just wondering if you ever listen to the heartless b*******. they have a new album coming out in february, if you haven’t heard of them you should check out the album “all this time.”
By Jim
December 6, 2008 12:09 PM | Link to this
KJ is not going to be moved to LF, but the point that I don’t understand in some of these posts is the suggestion that he be moved to LF and platooned with Diaz. What is this love for Matt Diaz? Didn’t anybody watch him hit last year before his injury? If you were moving KJ to LF to keep his bat in the lineup, why would you platoon a guy who had the highest batting average for a lefthanded hitter against lefthanded pitching in the league? If Diaz were good enough to platoon with Kelly, we wouldn’t be desperate for another left fielder.
By David O'Brien
December 6, 2008 12:12 PM | Link to this
Speaking of Prado and KJ, and I’m keeping in mind you don’t wanna pizz either of them off, if they remain with the Braves… who do you think is the better defensive 2B between the two? N8
I’d go with Kelly, but it’s close.
By David O'Brien
December 6, 2008 12:15 PM | Link to this
Athensmatt, I’ve got the album they put out a couple years ago, the one that had the minor hit on it. Lead singer’s got a great voice. Saw them open for Lucinda Williams….
But I’m partial to the other Heartless Bastards, the backup band for James McMurtry. But I’m partial to all things James McMurtry.
By keylargo
December 6, 2008 12:19 PM | Link to this
Lew, I read that article yesterday and I can say I was more excited about the progress reports of Smoltz and Glavine than I was about them trading for Vasquez.
I do hope they bring them both around slowly and that their intention is for Smoltz to be in the pen and Glavine a starter sometime around May/June. This will limit Smoltz’s total pitches and Glavine’s innings to 150 or so.
I do think that Smotz finished off his shoulder last year chasing the strikeout record, which would never been an issue as a setup/closer.
By Weldon
December 6, 2008 12:23 PM | Link to this
DOB - no, I definitely wasn’t being condescending. And it probably was a bigger deal for us because of how much we care about football here. Still, have to imagine it’s a sweet feeling in Lawrence.
Gamecock fans have no room to be condescending to anyone, ever. We tore down the goalposts after a win over New Mexico St. I’ll let that marinate for a while…and go cry myself to sleep.
By My Entire Team Sucks
December 6, 2008 12:27 PM | Link to this
i wish the braves would even consider offering cc a contract - if brewers are only offering 6/110 why would the braves noy try to sign him - if they could get him at 6/120 why wouldnt they try? that would cost them no prospects and less in money than it would to get peavy and say furcal….and less of an injury risk..
By David O'Brien
December 6, 2008 12:31 PM | Link to this
Just talked to Bobby Cox about the Smoltz session yesterday. Said he’d give it a 6.5 to 7 on a 1-10 spring-training scale, and that Smoltz is way ahead of schedule. Bobby called it “terrific” and said McDowell felt the same way.
“Roger was impressed. John’s just on Cloud 9. No pain at all. None. Zero pain.:
As for whether he’d start or relieve, Cox said:
“He could go either way, save a bunch or start and win a bunch. We’ll continue to watch his progress, but that’s something else, to do that the first time out.”
When I said, so you think he’ll be back…
“Oh, he’ll be back. No doubt in mind. The way he says he feels, no pain. He’ll be back.”
By David O'Brien
December 6, 2008 12:35 PM | Link to this
Smoltz threw 45-50 pitches after an extended long-toss session. It was at an indoor mound at a place up in Marietta where he’s been working out.
Cox said he’d throw another session off the mound in a few days, then shut it down for 10 days or so, then continue forward. “Man, he’s way ahead of schedule. If he’s that good the first time out, you’ve really got something to look forward to.”
By Steve from OH
December 6, 2008 12:36 PM | Link to this
Efrim:
Yes, it is most definitely good to hear him speaking on those terms about saber stats AND not neglecting scouting…listening to his comments made me think that they really did their homework of Vazquez and have realistic expectations that he’ll be a sub-4.00 ERA guy next year.
I’ll agree on the LF defense, too, especially considering Schafer is a + defender in center and an in-shape Jeff Francoeur is a good defender, too. I hope FW has something in mind, because I can’t see how he’ll satisfy both needs w/o trading for Ludwick, which, unless we can sell them on a JoJo+prospects deal, is not a good one (if it includes KJ). I will say that I’d take Dunn over Burrell though, but Burrell would be ok too, defense and baserunning aside.
By brent a.
December 6, 2008 12:37 PM | Link to this
If Smoltz can start and his arm isn’t hurting - wow!
There’s front-line starter number 1. :)
By Billy
December 6, 2008 12:37 PM | Link to this
While Glavine just started playing catch earlier this week, Smoltz has been throwing for a little more than a month, and on Friday afternoon, he threw off a mound under the watchful eyes of Braves manager Bobby Cox and pitching coach Roger McDowell.
“John Smoltz was just outstanding today,” Cox said. “He threw fastballs, breaking balls, [split-finger fastballs] and changeups. If I was rating him on a scale of 1-10, I’d say he was a 6.5. He was really good.”
Well, a 6.5 in December is what in April, considering he was a zero in November?
By Lew
December 6, 2008 12:39 PM | Link to this
KeyLargo-Dude, that shoulder was causing him problems way back in 07-remember his weird ST regimen and late season start? I really don’t think the quest for 3,000 K made a bit of difference-it was an inevitable end to his season whether he struck anyone out or not.
As to Glavine throwing 150 innings in 09? You’re much more optimistic than I am, that’s for sure. It wouldn’t surprise me to see Glav hang it up and go into the HOF with Maddux.
By Lew
December 6, 2008 12:41 PM | Link to this
DOB-I sure hope Bobby Cox’s optimism is rewarded. We sure could use an effective Smoltz this year with Hudson out of the picture and the market being as scarce as it is-an expensive.
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
December 6, 2008 12:42 PM | Link to this
Absolutely love the news about Smoltzie…couldn’t be happier! DOB, how does this affect the money they have to spend? I dream that Smoltz would be in addition to…I know it won’t be.
Imagine a rotation of Smoltz, AJ, JJ, Vazquez, and Hanson. Not bad!
By N8
December 6, 2008 12:42 PM | Link to this
Lew
Totally agree on the Smoltz angle. If Wren builds this team with the thought that there will be zero help from Smoltz and then Smoltz CAN contribute.
We’ll be sitting pretty.
The darkhorse that nobody seems to be talking about is Glavine. While last year was disappointing for not only him, but the fans. He doesn’t get enough credit for going to the post, and being a tough guy as well. Dude must have been in some SERIOUS pain for him to opt to go on the DL after never having done so in his career, especially after “coming home”.
If his arm allows him to throw pain free, it would be foolish to think that he couldn’t put up numbers similar to Jamie Moyer last year (16-7, 3.71 ERA - 196 IP).
After all, Moyer is 45, Glavine “only” 42. Does anybody really think, that health aside, if all things are equal, that Jamie Moyer is a better pitcher than Glavine?
And if Vazquez is a nice addition to the staff, due to durability, innings, and a ERA around 4.50 last year, certainly Glavine would be a welcome addition to our staff, right?
I have this funny feeling, after reading that article, that BOTH Glavine and Smoltz will contribute to the Braves rotattion in some capacity next year. 35 starts each? Not likely. But something none the less.
If nothing else, having one (or both) of those guys healthy at the start of the season, would allow young Skywalker…er…Hanson, the chance to start the season at AAA and get a few starts in there before being thrust into the Braves rotation. Then if one (or both) of those guys goes down, so be it.
But I don’t expect Glavine to go “out” with last season being his last. If he CAN pitch, he WILL pitch.
Things could get real interesting soon.
By Steve from OH
December 6, 2008 12:50 PM | Link to this
You watch, last year we were expecting great things out of durable vets Glav and Smoltz, and they got hurt, and this year we’re not expecting squat and they’ll probably show up and throw great. The irony.
By N8
December 6, 2008 12:51 PM | Link to this
DOB
“I’d go with Kelly, but it’s close.”
Cool. Thanks for the answer. It’s such a toss up, because what he is capable of adding with his bat, counter acts some of his downfalls defensively, IMO.
If KJ has a strong year, it’s such an upgrade. I truly believe he’ll keep getting better defensively, but doubt he’ll ever be considered GG material.
Being the pessimist that I am, I don’t have high hopes for the season (maybe don’t want the let down). But that being said the little optimism that I have (and rarely show - other than last off-season when I was PUMPED and thought we were home free), says that way too much stuff went wrong health wise last year, and that can’t possibly happen again, can it?
Not that EVERY season isn’t this way for EVERY team, but even with the potential moves (Burnett or even Peavy), this team is hard to handicap right now. Could win 70 games if things go bad like last year, or they could win 95 games if everything goes right (Smoltz and Glavine being healthy, Francoeur “coming back”, Vazquez enjoying a return to the NL, Hanson contributing).
Gotta love this game.
By David O'Brien
December 6, 2008 12:51 PM | Link to this
JasonInFl: I don’t think it’ll have any effect on what the Braves can or will be willing to spend to fill their priority needs. No effect at all.
Smoltz will come back at a significantly lesser salary than last season, I’m sure, simply because he’s coming off major surgery at 42 after missing most of the season. They can always put plenty of incentives in his deal.
Of course, you can’t just make a guy of his stature a low-ball offer. You don’t treat people of his unique standing, with his gravitas, by saying here’s $1 mill, take it or leave it. And the Braves would never do that.
What he will get, I really have no idea. Some of that might also depend on the role they bring him back in, which is undecided.
By David O'Brien
December 6, 2008 12:53 PM | Link to this
LEW: As you mentioned above, a first time throwing off the mound is a long way from being ready to say he’ll be fit to pitch on a regular basis for the major league team. A long way.
But that big first session off the mound couldn’t have gone any better, it sounds like. If he’s as pain-free as he and Cox say he is, that’s pretty significant. No, very significant.
By Efrim
December 6, 2008 12:54 PM | Link to this
Steve from OH
I will say that I’d take Dunn over Burrell though, but Burrell would be ok too, defense and baserunning aside.
I would too, but considering the market, Burrell might have to settle for a two year deal worth something around 20 million. It’s a bad year to be a underrated offeonsive, poor defensive LF/DH type. There is about 5 of them out there: Burrell, Dunn, Ibanez, Abreu, and Bradley.
By Bubdylan
December 6, 2008 1:01 PM | Link to this
I asked last night, but it was way-late. Can somebody tell me what’s the rationale for expecting Burnett to be a healthy pitcher for the next 4-5 years? I just don’t know the argument. Haven’t heard it, don’t know what it sounds like.
Right now, I hope we don’t get him. It doesn’t even seem complicated to me. It seems like an extreme risk. But I’m willing to be convinced otherwise.
By woogidy
December 6, 2008 1:01 PM | Link to this
For the record DOB, Kanye’s new CD is his best ever in my opinion. Amazing.
It’s almost like you hate the fact it’s so good with him because he’s so freaking arrogant. Same as TO, or Bonds, or Ali. Amazing record though.
By nitram odarp
December 6, 2008 1:03 PM | Link to this
well.. there goes the chance of the big three going into the Hall of Fame together.
i really cant say that i am disappointed by that. if (thats a big if) smoltz can come back 70-80% of normal and the braves land burnett, then you cant start to think about being over that third place finish in the NL east.
burnett JJ javy smoltz morton/galvine/ho ho that finally something that makes us better than the muts or the filthies.
hope they both can come back, it would be nice…… hey do we have money to sign them?
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
December 6, 2008 1:04 PM | Link to this
DOB, thanks. I remember reading a story a while back about a team allocating “additional” funds on top of their budget for a particular player to play for them. I can’t remember the team and player (who knows, maybe it was in a dream), but was picturing a similar scenario if the Braves spent money on AJ and other needs that got them close to the $40 million (or whatever it is) so they could ensure the Bearded Icon pitches where he belongs…in the ATL!!!
By Random
December 6, 2008 1:04 PM | Link to this
Serge: “Not really. [Francoeur’s] defensive decline. Can be ascribed from the fact that he had Andruw Jones in 07 and Mark Kotsay in 08. Andruw Jones as a plus defender in CF, Mark Kotsay was one of the worst in the leauge. Having more ground to cover, will expose some of his deficencies, and thus make him look like a worse defender… . His ankle had very little to do with it.”
Respectfully disagree. Whatever limitations on his lateral range and coverage might have been exposed by the substitution of Kotsay for Jones were nowhere near as drastically apparent as his newfound inability to go back on fly balls and line drives. How many balls wound up behind him last season? By my memory, a lot.
I ascribe that to his foot/ankle injury.
By Lew
December 6, 2008 1:06 PM | Link to this
DOB-Nothing would please me more than a return of a healthy Smoltz. That would be a great thing for the Braves-no doubt whatsoever. Hope the improvement and lack of pain continues.
By Steve McP
December 6, 2008 1:11 PM | Link to this
If Smoltz and Glavine both come back,once agan we will be discussing how we could work out a 6 man rotation - with Campillo/Morton/Hanson making starts to give the old guys a rest every second or third time through the rotation
By TexasBrave
December 6, 2008 1:13 PM | Link to this
Imagine a rotation of Smoltz, AJ, JJ, Vazquez, and Hanson. Not bad! JasonInFL
Jason while no doubt getting a healthy Smoltz back could be a boon for the starting rotation I don’t see him as coming back as our ace. I would think, if he in the starting rotation, that he would be used as the 5th man in the rotation at least for the first month or two until they can determine how his shoulder is going to hold up. He could benefit from being skipped when the fifth man is not needed.
As for Hanson, I agree he needs to start in AAA then only bring him up during the season if he is totally dominating down there. The only way I would keep him out of spring training is if there is no Smoltz or Glavine and poor showing during ST for Morton, JO-JO, James, Parr, Buddy and Bennett. Let’s see if he can continue his success at a higher level before we shove him into the fire with the big dogs.
By GeorgetownKid
December 6, 2008 1:16 PM | Link to this
Mr. O’Brien,
I asked this in the last blog, but it was at the very end right before the blog crashed.
I asked about Kotchman. In all of your interactions with him, what is he like? From your articles, and from those of others, I somewhat got the impression that he is laid back to the point of almost being a space cadet.
Such as when he had a long slump which he suddenly broke out of. He sort of shrugged his shoulders and said he didn’t change anything.
Is he popular in the Braves’ clubhouse? I get the impression (also from your articles) that the Braves’ clubhouse has a country-boy vibe to it, led by Jones, Franceour and McCann.
Or, does personality matter much in making a guy well liked by his teammates? If a guy produces on the field, but isn’t really friendly (such as J.D. Drew), do his teammates like him all the same?
Thanks! I know you are putting in a ton of hours in early December, which I doubt is in your contract. But I for one certainly appreciate it!!
By Joe M.
December 6, 2008 1:22 PM | Link to this
Pat Burrell & Kelly Johnson > Ryan Ludwick & Martin Prado
Burrell is only looking for a 2-3 year deal. If I was Wren I’d jump on that. He is a good player, with a good OBP, walks a lot and can hit more homeruns than the entire Braves’ outfield combined did in 2008.
By chris
December 6, 2008 1:22 PM | Link to this
Rafael Furcal rejected the A’s offer. Does anyone think he really wants to hear if the Braves make an offer to him before signing with a team?
By BravesFanInRockies
December 6, 2008 1:22 PM | Link to this
Smoltz throwing off a mound, pain-free?
All I can say is, “Sham-WOW!”
By Saltywoody
December 6, 2008 1:24 PM | Link to this
I have this great idea for the blog. It’s called a jump to conclusions mat. You put it on your doorstep and it’s got a bunch of conclusions on it and you “jump to” them.
And while I hate to jump to conclusions, myself, that’s what we do here on this blog and during the offseason.
So…
Imagine either:
Bullpen- Moylan, Soriano, Gonzalez, Smoltz Closing (Ummm, it’d be like a four inning game)
Rotation- Burnett, Vazquez, Smoltz, Jurrjens, Hanson
I know you can’t rush to judgment on Smoltz’ one session and he’s still got a lot of work to do. But as a Braves fan and a baseball fan, in a greater sense, it would be outstanding for the game to see Smoltzie come back and pitch. You talk about a guy that could mentor young pitchers…
To think what Smoltz did while he was pitching with pain…and then to imagine him possibly pain-free? I’ll temper my expectations, but that doesn’t mean I won’t get excited about it, too.
Whether he’s in the pen or the rotation, he makes this an insanely better ballclub. He’s the one pitcher I really want to add to this staff.
By Joe M.
December 6, 2008 1:28 PM | Link to this
“The sheer badness of Jeff Francoeur 2008 cannot be shown in the statistics. Oh, the statistics are bad, very bad. He hit .239, 25 points below the league; got on base at a .294 clip, 41 points below the league; and slugged a big fat .359, 62 points below the league. Remember, this includes not only middle infielders, catchers, and Hamsters, but also pitchers. Only five players in the entire National League made more outs than Francoeur, and most of them were top of the order hitters, and centerfielders or middle infielders.
But that doesn’t tell the whole story. To really appreciate how bad Jeff Francoeur was in 2008, you had to see him. For me, the definitive Francoeur PA would not be a one-out, bases-loaded GIDP (he grounded into five bases-loaded double plays on his way to putting up a .182/.206/.242 line with the sacks full) or a one-out, runner at third popup, or a first-pitch out after two consecutive walks, though you could see all of these without waiting too long. The definitive Francoeur PA was when he would make solid contact on fastball with a vicious uppercut swing… and the left fielder would run in to make the play. The man’s bat speed has deteriorated to the point that even if he anticipates a pitch and makes contact, he isn’t generating enough velocity to do anything with it.
The entire 2008 Jeff Francoeur Experience can be defined with one word, and that word is “slowness”. His bat was slow, but that was more than matched by his feet. It was unbelieveable, watching him in the outfield, to think that he was recruited to play defensive back for a major college football team, or even Clemson. At times, particularly when chasing balls into the gap, he looked like he was running in molasses.
“Slowness” also defines the Braves’ treatment of Francoeur — and I mean slowness in all its meanings, as they both took far too long to address the problem, and then handled it incredibly stupidly. The only quick thing about Francoeur all year was how quickly the Braves backtracked once they’d finally done what was vitally necessary to keep the team in contention. The absurd three-day demotion gave the impression that whoever was running the show in Atlanta, it wasn’t the general manager, and that possibly it was actually a sponsor. Francoeur’s very serious problems could not possibly be addressed in a long weekend, especially since he refused to acknowledge that he was hurting the team.
The single biggest reason that the Braves did not win an eminently winnable division was the play of their right fielder. No one player can lose twenty games for a team, but Francoeur’s poor play probably had a greater effect on the ballclub than his mere three or so games below replacement, or his 6-9 games below average. When the Braves were in contention, they were kept out of first place by their miserable record in one-run games; if they had gotten anything from right field, things would almost certainly have been different. Moreover, the largest single systemic weakness in the Braves of the first half was a lack of righthanded power, and the reason for that is that the man employed to be the team’s righthanded power hitter — who at the beginning of the season routinely hit fifth against lefthanded pitchers — was a complete waste of space and hit eleven homers all year. The Braves hit .282/.364/.438 lefthanded , but only .256/.323/.373 righthanded; Francoeur accounted for 23 percent of their righthanded plate appearances.”
By Saltywoody
December 6, 2008 1:29 PM | Link to this
But I’m partial to all things James McMurtry.
K…anybody have a must-haves list of his cds? Cuz I just started listening to some of his stuff and it’s really outstanding.
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
December 6, 2008 1:30 PM | Link to this
Chris, I posted my conspiracy theory earlier this morning about Furcal. With the reports that the Braves are willing to move KJ for a power bat and that Furcal would be open to playing 2nd (not sure how accurate they are), I too wonder (hope) there is something behind the scenes with the Braves and that Furcal and the team are waiting for that move to be made. Of course, the fact that he turned down a 4 year offer is this market adds to the theory. Deep down, I doubt there is anything to it, but I have been wondering…
By David O'Brien
December 6, 2008 1:32 PM | Link to this
Just talked to Smoltz (called to talk to him about Maddux), and he echoed Bobby’s sentiments — he fully intends to be back in 2009, and yesterday’s session was more progress. Said he wasn’t confident of his comeback right after surgery, but confidence has built steadily since then….
GeorgetownKid, there’s certainly a country-boy element, but that’s just one segment. I mean, Jair Jurrjens, Soriano, Moylan, and obviously Smoltz and Glavine, are not “country boys” in any respect. Anyone who’s a decent person and good guy is going to be popular in that clubhouse, but some are just more vocal and fit in well immediately (and occasionally someone is overly vocal, like Ohman, but he fit in after guys realized he, too, was a good dude, and funny.)
Kotchman is very reserved, quiet, and was away from the team for a while last year when his mom was sick. I think he’ll just take a little longer before a lot of guys get to know him as well as they would if he was very talkative and all that. But he’s nothing like, say, Farnsworth, who just walked around with his head down looking at his Ipod, not talking to anyone. Or Wickman, who had a few close friends on the team and rubbed a lot of other guys the wrong way.
Kotchman is just a real quiet guy. Seems like a nice guy to me, but I’ve not talked to him at length. You don’t hear him cutting up and laughing a lot, I can tell you that. But maybe he opens up more after he’s around the guys a little longer. We’ll see.
Guys don’t have to all be the same to get along in there, though. That’s for sure.
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
December 6, 2008 1:34 PM | Link to this
TexasBrave, I don’t necessarily disagree. To be honest, I thought about where I listed Smoltz, but out of respect to the Bearded Icon; I put him first. He very well may benefit from missing a start or two to try and keep healthy…if he indeed can come back and come back as a starter.
Personally, I have no faith in Jo-Jo whatsoever. None. Zero. Zip. I still think Morton could develop into a nice mid rotation guy, but to be honest; I do think Hanson will pitch better than both in ST. I am not saying that will win him a spot in the rotation. Bennet and Buddy are good long relievers and spot starters. Not really any upside present there. I would rather not go into the season with one of them in the rotation.
By TexasBrave
December 6, 2008 1:35 PM | Link to this
Hey how about signing Smoltz to play left field? :)
By David O'Brien
December 6, 2008 1:35 PM | Link to this
Steve from OH: I was thinking the same thing as you said at 12:50. It would be ironic, wouldn’t it?
Also just talked to Glavine, who was in Alabama (Huntsville) for his son’s hockey tournament. He threw Wednesday and Friday, long-toss sessions, his first throwing sessions since surgeries. He’s also ahead of schedule, wasn’t supposed to start throwing until just before Christmas.
He’s encouraged, no pain so far, but again, he’s only long-tossed. Got a ways to go there before he’ll really know if he’s going to pitch again.
By Ebravesluvr
December 6, 2008 1:41 PM | Link to this
I love Smoltz! I so want him to come back. Let’s just hope he can come back pain free and compete. I think I’d still rather have him starting than in the bullpen because I, for one, am NOT ready to give up on Blaine Boyer and Manny Acosta. I think they both were much better than people give them credit for until Papa Cox decided to overuse them every single game.
By David O'Brien
December 6, 2008 1:41 PM | Link to this
Austin, yes, I’m serious. If I’m wrong, hey, I’m wrong. But I just think ‘Bama is getting them at a bad time (i.e., any time after the loss to Ole Miss).
But I should add, I made that prediction before finding out this morning that Percy Harvin is doubtful because of that ankle sprain. If true, or if he plays hobbled, then 14 points is too much. But I made the prediction, so I’ll stand by it.
By David O'Brien
December 6, 2008 1:43 PM | Link to this
Weldon, sorry to have doubted your sincerity. And I do appreciate the compliment to big Mangino — make that biiiiiig Mangino — and his team. He’s building a good program, and QB Reesing is back next season.
By bruce
December 6, 2008 1:45 PM | Link to this
The Smoltz news is fabulous to hear… wearing my Smoltz T-shirt right now under a sweater.
By Moby Grape
December 6, 2008 2:07 PM | Link to this
. Prado has averaged one error every 61 innings in the majors (11 errors in 670 innings in the field.) Kelly Johnson has averaged one error for every 107 innings in the majors (28 errors in 3,000 innings). Joe
this is the latest defensive analysis. errors per inning? Gee
By Efrim
December 6, 2008 2:09 PM | Link to this
Joe M.
Pat Burrell & Kelly Johnson > Ryan Ludwick & Martin Prado
Agreed.
Burrell is only looking for a 2-3 year deal. If I was Wren I’d jump on that. He is a good player, with a good OBP, walks a lot and can hit more homeruns than the entire Braves’ outfield combined did in 2008.
I agree if he is looking for something like 2 years and 20 million. Just not sure if he would settle for something like that. I’m not sure, but didn’t he reject a Philly proposal earlier this year?
By cabravesfan
December 6, 2008 2:11 PM | Link to this
Best possible news about Smoltz but it does not suprise me at all- the man just doesn’t know how to give up without a fight- one of the things I have always loved about him. I know he’s got a long ways to go but I am very encouraged- the thought of him contributing anythng next season cannot be anything but good for this team
By Chris from the Rock
December 6, 2008 2:11 PM | Link to this
Is Moylan going to be ready for Spring Training? And if he’s healthy, will he pitch for the Aussies in the WBC?
By McFann O –[zzz]
December 6, 2008 2:15 PM | Link to this
Hi, Bruce! Good to hear from ya! Hope all is well!
By chris
December 6, 2008 2:15 PM | Link to this
Are the Braves going to go after any LH’d pitching? I like the names being bandied about for the rotation but it leaves me a little curious and/or nervous on the prospect of all RH’d rotation. A majority of the offensive stars in our division are LH’d or switch hitters, so wouldn’t adding a Wolf, Perez or Liriano(if the Braves want to continue to trade for an ace as well) be beneficial to the rotation? Remember the 2004 Yankees, part of the reason they lost the series was they no lefty starters to neutralize those lefties. I do not want to see the Braves go down that very same path.
By McFann O –[zzz]
December 6, 2008 2:16 PM | Link to this
cabravesfan—
Agreed.
By TexasBrave
December 6, 2008 2:20 PM | Link to this
Chris if I remember correctly Moylan isn’t due back until May which will keep him out of the WBC.
By toddh
December 6, 2008 2:22 PM | Link to this
dang it dob, you just kill it. you’re bringing the info left and right and i’m lovin it. as a baseball junkie, this time of year seems to drag on, but ,man i’m gonna be able to manage if you keep this up. just want to say thanks for the baseball and music info. oh, and thanks for turning me on to mcmurtry. great stuff. Your right,the live version of choctaw bingo rocks.
By GeorgetownKid
December 6, 2008 2:25 PM | Link to this
Thanks Mr. O’Brien!
By Random
December 6, 2008 2:27 PM | Link to this
I wish now I had said “[Francoeur’s] newfound inability to go back on or come in on fly balls and line drives. How many balls wound up behind him or dropped in front of him last season? By my memory, a lot.”
I suppose that’s what happens when you shoot from the hip.
By Salty Dawg
December 6, 2008 2:29 PM | Link to this
The sheer badness of Jeff Francoeur 2008 cannot be shown in the statistics.
Well, I think that horse has been beaten to death at this point. We all know that Francoeur had an awful season, Cox knows that Francoeur had an awful season, Wren knows that Francoeur had and awful season, and Francoeur himself knows that he had an awful season. Let it go. Give the guy a chance to rebound. If he has a repeat next year it will most certainly be his last in Atlanta, so stop harping on the guy. I think a lot of (so called) fans underestimate the mental aspect of the game and the impact that being constantly bombarded with negativity has on a player’s performance. If you can’t support the guy and give him a chance to return to form, the least you can do is keep your trap shut.
By Salty Dawg
December 6, 2008 2:35 PM | Link to this
I know you can’t rush to judgment on Smoltz’ one session and he’s still got a lot of work to do. But as a Braves fan and a baseball fan, in a greater sense, it would be outstanding for the game to see Smoltzie come back and pitch. You talk about a guy that could mentor young pitchers…
It would be great to have Smoltz back next year, but I am taking the approach of assuming he wont be back until I see otherwise. I am glad that the Braves seem to be taking the same approach (though you know that in the back of Wren’s mind he has to be thinking Smoltz will be back) and not counting on him. Even if he does come back, I would think there would be a better chance of him being in the bullpen than the starting rotation. If he somehow ends up making it back, that will be like finding $20 in the pocket of jeans you haven’t worn in a while - always a great feeling.
By Gone Viral
December 6, 2008 2:36 PM | Link to this
DOB, when you covered Burnett with the Marlins, did you consider him to be the type of pitcher who would merit one of the ten or so most lucrative contracts in the sport? I’m genuinely curious about your opinion about what you thought of him in covering him on a daily basis.
PS: I’m sure this has probably been covered at least once by you if not several times, but the board has been so shockingly active this off-season that it’s sometimes hard for casual readers to keep up.
By Nate in Maine
December 6, 2008 2:37 PM | Link to this
* Hey DOB* Thanks for the updates on Smoltz and Glavine. I hope we can bring them back. Even if we canget one more year out of them would be great. I hope we can land a pitcher here soon.
By KC
December 6, 2008 2:38 PM | Link to this
Yes… fantastic news about Smoltz!!! If Smoltz could make a successful comeback to the rotation this year, that would be HUGE!
If he had even just one more quality season left in him, that would help us bridge the gap to Hudson’s return next season.
And if Smoltz could make a real solid return to the rotation AND we got Burnett… DAMN fine rotation my friends!!!!
By Random
December 6, 2008 2:40 PM | Link to this
JasonInFL (formerly ME): “Lew, Smoltz threw has thrown off of a mound already…”
Now, don’t nobody go disputin’ on Lew — he imagines his every post to be a proclamation from on high.
Believe you me, you do not want to court his displeasure.
Else, he might get snippy.
By Serge
December 6, 2008 2:43 PM | Link to this
Why aren’t the Braves interested in Burell anyways? That’s slightly bizarre. Righty, Plays LF, wont cost us picks, wont cost us too much money.
And believe it or not wasn’t that awful defensively according to metrics. He would easily sign for 10-12m per for a year or two. And doesn’t have the injury history of Ryan Ludwick.
By NCBravesFan
December 6, 2008 2:44 PM | Link to this
SaltyDog - well said at 2:29. Frenchy failed in a way that he’s never failed before in life. He’s 22, and let’s hope he comes back strong in 2009.
By Gone Viral
December 6, 2008 2:46 PM | Link to this
As I said in yesterday’s blog about 10 minutes before it blew up, Francoeur didn’t have an awful season. He’s had an awful career. If you look at his month to month OBPs since his first 50 games, he’s been an easy out 84% of the time. He’s consistently failed, but it’s been hidden by the number of run producing opportunities afforded by the hitters before him in the lineup. It took last year’s historically unprecedented meltdown for casual fans to notice, but the issue won’t go away unless he learns how to avoid 0-2/1-2 counts. Right now, he’s a Bob Hamelin situation. If Kansas City is offering anything respectable for him, we should jump all over it.
By Gone Viral
December 6, 2008 2:47 PM | Link to this
NCBravsFan, Francoeur turns 25 next month.
By McFann O –[zzz]
December 6, 2008 2:51 PM | Link to this
Serge Why aren’t the Braves interested in Burell anyways?
Because he’s been contaminated by playing for the Fillies.
: >
By Chuck James is solid until the 6th!! (Formerly Steve-O)
December 6, 2008 2:54 PM | Link to this
Just an FYI, J.D. Drew is a really kind, genuine and sincere guy. He definitely appears to be laid back on the field because he is very serious, always, but in my interactions with him he always had a big smile, took pictures and joked around…
By Random
December 6, 2008 2:54 PM | Link to this
Doc Holliday: “Things could look better……..thats true……….but its not as bad as ouch.”
C’mon, dude — buy yourself a respirator.
Don’t you have health insurance?
By NCBravesFan
December 6, 2008 2:54 PM | Link to this
Thanks, GV. He was 22 when he came up.
By NCBravesFan
December 6, 2008 3:02 PM | Link to this
21 and a half, actually. :)
By TennesseePaul
December 6, 2008 3:07 PM | Link to this
What a good way to bring up the Blog.
Smoltz: ahead of schedule and feeling good.
Glavine: ahead of schedule and feeling good.
Flowers/Peavy: wasn’t an issue at all, making the trade for Mr. Mediocrity a little easier to stomach.
This after a fine eveining at the theater to see Sweeny Todd. Probably the best performance of a musical I’ve ever seen.
By Lew
December 6, 2008 3:14 PM | Link to this
Random-Snippy in that you can be a real @$$ a lot of the time? Dude-Keep in mind you’re still only an ALMOST Wurlitzer winner. You need to work harder and definitely not dispute my proclamations if you want to be as good as you already think you are.
By Steve from OH
December 6, 2008 3:18 PM | Link to this
10Paul, did you take a gander at the link I posted and listen to FW’s radio interview? I believe that you’ve been one of the most vocal members of the opposition (correct me if I’m wrong!) and I was wondering if it convinced you guys, since it did have a bit of an effect on me. I was entirely ambivalent toward the trade at the time, but after listening to Frank give some (pretty good) reasoning for it, I’ve come to ever so slightly like the deal. After listening to Frank and studying the numbers a little more closely, I agree with him that Vazquez will probably be significantly better in the NL.
By Bobby's Cox
December 6, 2008 3:27 PM | Link to this
JasonInFL
Your 10:30 am post on Furcal is ridiculous. There’s no way he rejected the offer to see what the braves would do.
Do you remember the guy that signed with the dodgers over atlanta because the dodgers offered more?
Furcal’s rejection of the A’s offer was simply a reaction of going from $13 mil a year to $9 mil a year. The guy wants more money.
Period.
Don’t forget, with Vazquez making $11 mil a year and Smoltz making about 8-10, with the signing of Burnett if they land him, that pretty much eats up the $40 mil a year. Don’t forget about Ohman, and guys like Greg Norman they’d like to sign for the bench. That makes Furcal’s money demands near to impossible for the braves.
If you’re speculating Furcal may want to play for a winner, then that doesn’t make much sense either. That’s a helluva team they’re putting together in Oakland in a DH’ed league in a winnable division with only 4 teams.
I know you may be thinking Furcal may want to play again for bobby cox. Again unlikely assuming Cox will likely only manage 1 or 2 more years.
But hey, dream on dude.
By f.n. hale
December 6, 2008 3:30 PM | Link to this
Someone, I think bubdylan, made a comment yesterday about strikeouts being sexy. I agree but in the grand scheme of things they don’t make a lot of difference in a game. Of course their are times when you really want to have the ability to get a K, but it isn’t the most efficient way to get outs. Greg Maddux said one time he didn’t really care about strikeouts. He said they were fascist. Though I’m not sure fascist really describes what he was saying, I think his point was a good one. He was saying you don’t want one guy to be the dictator of outs. You want to keep your defense in the game, assuming you don’t have a bad defense, but you also want to get outs with as few pitches as possible. We all love strikeouts and maybe they help in that they get the fans pumped which may do the same for players, and they definitely contribute to the 27 you have to get but, one and two pitch outs count the same at less cost. That’s all assuming your BABIP isn’t out of whack the wrong way.
Speaking of BABIP, Vasquez’s last year was .328. That’s fairly high and compared to his 2007 figure of .297 could explain in large part the difference in his results between his 15-8 record in ‘07 and his 12-16 in ‘08. Walks were a little more frequent in ‘08 and strikeouts a little less, but his homeruns were down a bit as well so a return to a more normal BABIP figure could make a sizeable difference in ‘09 results. I’m kinda new to analyzing stats so if I’m wrong I hope and assume someone will point that out.
By Random
December 6, 2008 3:32 PM | Link to this
Epinephrine: “The fact that the Braves recognize that-especially in that they realize JoJo and Morton are not fungible-gives me confidence that Wren is proceeding carefully and intelligently in trying to address our needs.”
“Fungible”!?!
Wheah you from, boy?
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
December 6, 2008 3:36 PM | Link to this
Bobby Act Like A Cox, as I said…didn’t really think there was a lot to it, but the thought of a conspiracy theory crossed my mind. I wasn’t stating as fact or necessarily even opinion, but more of a conspiracy theory…now, back to dreamin on…
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
December 6, 2008 3:36 PM | Link to this
IF and that’s a big I-F Smoltz continues to progress in his recovery from shoulder surgery, there is no way he will be a set up man in the bullpen. NO WAY , NO HOW.
Atlanta already has closer material in Gonzalez and Soriano. John Smoltz is a fierce competitor and a healthy Smoltz is going to be part of the rotation.
By Serge
December 6, 2008 3:37 PM | Link to this
Furcal also knew that if he rejeacted the As offer their offers would be off the table.
He knews more than we know. I suspect him wanting to come back had something to do with it
By Bobby's Cox
December 6, 2008 3:41 PM | Link to this
DOB seems to slant towards Kelly Johnson and Mark Bowman seems to slant towards Prado in his writings. So what?
It’s funny no one ever mentions that Martin had a .995 Fielding % in his last full year in the minors in 2007.
People say KJ’s inconsistency is a result of moving to different spots throughout the lineup, but no one ever thinks that maybe Prado’s unsuccess in the field has been a result of not playing much and trying to be perfect when he gets an opportunity to play. Didn’t he say as much early last year? I believe he did. So why do we give Kj’s failures the benefit of the doubt, but not Prado’s?
Everyone wants to give Kelly Johnson props for learning a new position, and thinks he deserves more P.T. because of his work ethic.
But, no one ever says that Prado, who has played 2nd base his whole life, learned to play 1B and LF for the Braves last year. He’s also played at unfamilar positions on the left side of the infield.
No one talks that Prado is forgoing playing in the WBC so he could earn a full-time job with the Braves in S.T. And, no one mentions that he is currently playing LF in the Winter Leagues to get better at that position as his current team is in desperate need of a LF.
Man, how much more effort does the guy need to show? Seems to me he’s been putting in just as much effort over the last 3 years that KJ did 2 offseasons ago.
Btw, what is Kelly Johnson doing this offseason? maybe he should be working on his consistency in the winter leagues?
By David O'Brien
December 6, 2008 3:45 PM | Link to this
Coach: You’re probably right about Smoltz’s role. He wants to start, and Cox said he could start or close after seeing him throw pain-free Friday.
Long way to go, you’re right. Long way. And Wren is not counting on him or Glavine simply because the Braves aren’t going to get caught short-handed as they were last year, at least not because of counting on two 40-plus guys trying to come back from arm surgeries.
If they make it back, or one does, it’s a big bonus. And as Frank said, they can simply keep a young pitcher or two at Triple-A a little longer if Smoltz and/or Glavine is ready.
By NCBravesFan
December 6, 2008 3:47 PM | Link to this
Bobby’s Cox - I was wondering if Furcal might be thinking of taking a shorter term contract in order to re-establish his value in the wake of his back surgery last year.
By J.L.
December 6, 2008 3:49 PM | Link to this
Just a thought. If Smoltz makes it back to the starting rotation, he will be the number 1 go to guy.
By David O'Brien
December 6, 2008 3:57 PM | Link to this
Don’t forget, with Vazquez making $11 mil a year and Smoltz making about 8-10, with the signing of Burnett if they land him, that pretty much eats up the $40 mil a yearBobby’s Cox
You’re too high on Smoltz, I’m pretty certain. Quite a bit too high, probably. You forget he’s coming back from major surgery after missing most of the season. And he won’t be able to prove himself in games before signing a contract. There are going to still be too many questions about his long-term health, his ability to pitch an entire season, to give him that kind of guaranteed money.
Vazquez and Burnett is about $27 mill, and Braves would probably still have about $10 mill even after signing Smoltz. Again, I’d point out that Braves might have more than $40 mill to spend, we just don’t know because they’ve told no one outside the small inner circle that makes the decisions.
By David O'Brien
December 6, 2008 3:59 PM | Link to this
Regarding Moylan, he won’t be pitching in the WBC. He’s not going to be ready for games before April or May.
By Steve from OH
December 6, 2008 4:01 PM | Link to this
f.n. hale, the long and short of it is that strikeouts ARE beneficial for pitchers and ARE a predictor of success (among other things), but are NOT necessarily a detriment to a hitter’s ability and NOT a predictor of future failure. I know it seems very contradictory, but Baseball Prospectus has done a lot of work on the subject and support it with solid research. Not the “be all and end all” by any means, but it’s definitely something to consider when whining about K’s.
And VERY good point about the BABIP—I hadn’t noticed that. If you want more info on that, a guy named Voros McCracken has done a lot of work on Defense Independent Pitching Statistics (DIPS) and has shown that a pitcher has very little control on the number of individual hits he gives up over a given season because they don’t have much control over the outcome of balls in play…check out Maddux’s hit totals. There’s quite a variance there…in one season, he gave up something like 147 hits, in another, 258. That’s why BABIP is useful. His expaination (and grasp on the material) is way better than mine, so check it out.
By Joe M.
December 6, 2008 4:06 PM | Link to this
Mark Bowman seems to slant towards Prado in his writings.
Well that is not saying much. Bowman talks up Francoeur too (still!)
Bowman is the source for official Braves’ news. He talks up near everyone in case of trade.
By McFann O –[zzz]
December 6, 2008 4:06 PM | Link to this
NCBravesFan 21 and a half, actually. :)
21 7/12! : )
Later!
By Yars
December 6, 2008 4:14 PM | Link to this
bobby’s cox………if KJ isn’t traded, he’s the Braves everyday 2B in ‘09. Makes no difference if Prado plays for Venezuela team in the WBC or not. Trading KJ for a Ludwick is taking a big gamble. I still say Ludwick has a pathetic ‘09, whether it’s still with the Cards or another team. Can’t help but wonder why I keep hearing so many KJ for Ludwick trade rumors. Why the Braves so high on Ludwick? Why aren’t the Cards? Cards in a tough division too. Hell man, I won’t be shocked if Ankiel has a better ‘09 than Ludwick. now playing: eight miles high by the byrds.
By Ronald Millsaps
December 6, 2008 4:16 PM | Link to this
Don’t be surprised if Alabama wins this game. Nick Saban looked more businesslike than Urban Meyer.
By Steve from OH
December 6, 2008 4:28 PM | Link to this
Impressive opening drive by Florida.
And I agree w/ Coach and DOB: if Smoltz is truly healthy and effective, there’s no chance he’s not a starter.
By brent a.
December 6, 2008 4:29 PM | Link to this
Not a good sign for Bama when a guy scores his first TD of the season against them; however, Julio just made an amazing play.
That’s it from me.
I think Bama wins a close one, or Florida blows them out.
Enjoy the game!
By Doc Holliday
December 6, 2008 4:30 PM | Link to this
Random
“Whatever do you mean”…….
By ncscoots
December 6, 2008 4:31 PM | Link to this
Well, it’s too cold to build anyting in the workshop, the shopping’s all done, and I refuse to work on house renovations today, so it’s a rare Saturday sojourn to the blog for me.
Bobby’s, thanks for the Prado tout. I was beginning to think we’d never get another one from you, LOL. But the sun is now confirmed to still be rising in the east.
And, on a stats note, pitcher BABIP (as a rule) is wildly variant, relative to hitter BABIP. You can consider a hitter’s BABIP that is more than one standard deviation from his norm as an outlier, and a flag either way toward his returning or receding to his norm (and BA that goes with it). Pitchers, on the other hand, are not so easily flagged.
Vazquez’s two-year difference in BABIP can’t really be considered an indicator one way or another. I haven’t looked, but I doubt he’s one of those few pitchers who has had a fairly steady BABIP, so no way to know if there is even a norm for him to reach.
By Ebravesluvr
December 6, 2008 4:44 PM | Link to this
My friend, a HUGE ‘Bama fan is at this game right now.
By Nocturnal Owl
December 6, 2008 4:44 PM | Link to this
Wonder if Maddog will sign a one-day deal to close out his powerful career with the Braves. He should without a doubt be wearing a Braves cap in that HOF introduction.
Smoltz is going to be a serious player come 2009. WATCH. Maybe that CF gig will come this year too! That would be a trip…
DOB, so which Brave do you believe will play the WBC?
By f.n. hale
December 6, 2008 4:47 PM | Link to this
Steve thanks for the articles. I’ll have to mull the strikeout thing a bit. I didn’t think it had much impact on a hitter and Adam Dunn is a prime example but the take on pitchers is not what I expected. There was a quote in the article that pitchers with low strikeouts per nine wouldn’t have long careers and of course Maddux and Glavine would be examples of two exceptions (assuming 6 per nine isn’t considered high). Interesting that McCracken is working for the Bosox and is still researching but not publishing results. It seems the research was fairly new when he went to work for them and could be much further advanced now.
A couple of more things on BABIP, Chipper’s last year was freakin’ .388 and Boone Logan’s was .393 against. One can only assume these were anomalies and they will return to their norms with results adjusting accordingly wouldn’t you think?
Also, I was looking a while back when I first started thinking about BABIP and was surprised to see Derek Jeter as the active career lead with .361. I would have assumed someone that scalds the ball like Manny or Vlad would be at or near the top. Do you have any explanation for a guy like Jeter leading?
By Steve from OH
December 6, 2008 4:47 PM | Link to this
Scoots, I think you’ve got the two flip-flopped. Everything I’ve read says it’s good for pitchers but suspect for hitters…here’s the entry from Baseball Prospectus’ glossary:
“Batting Average on balls put into play. A pitcher’s average on batted balls ending a plate appearance, excluding home runs. Based on the research of Voros McCracken and others, BABIP is mostly a function of a pitcher’s defense and luck, rather than persistent skill. Thus, pitchers with abnormally high or low BABIPs are good bets to see their performances regress to the mean. A typical BABIP is about .290.”
Vazquez’s career BABIP is .310, last year was .328. .328 is the highest single-season BABIP he’s ever had.
By f.n. hale
December 6, 2008 4:59 PM | Link to this
scoots I looked at Vasquez’s BABIP and yes it has a fairly wide range but won/loss results have pretty much gone along with it. When BABIP was below .300 he had a winning record and when over .300 he had a losing record. Seems to me there is a correlation in results, at least for this one guy. Is there research on the difference in pitcher vs. hitters BABIP?
By Steve from OH
December 6, 2008 5:10 PM | Link to this
fn hale, Mad Dog’s K/9 is 6, which is right about average, and Glav’s was 5.5, which isn’t far off from average, so I wouldn’t consider them as exceptions, per say, considering Mad Dog’s insane 1.80 BB/9 average. And his insanely low HR/9.
Hitter BABIP? Tough to say, I think. The hitters tend not to regress to a league average or be “all over the place” like pitchers do, so I think that that indicates that it’s more of a level of skill metric—i.e. you can expect them to regress to their own personal level and not to a league average like pitchers. With pitchers, it’s so much more random, due to team defense and luck, that you expect it to regress to the league average, but with hitters, it’s more reasonable to expect it to regress to a personal average or level. This makes sense, to me, because some hitters consistetly make better contact (like Chipper) than others do (like Jeff Francoeur this season, hence the low BABIP). That’s my personal theory to explain it, as it is skill-based.
As for Vlad Guerrero and Jeter, well, uh, your guess is as good as mine :). I’m no expert, I’m just laying my interpretations of what I’ve read here. I hope this was helpful. If it’s wrong, correct me!
By safebet
December 6, 2008 5:11 PM | Link to this
TOWERS better move quick. just think Smoltz Burnnet Jiar Vasquez. then think again. Smoltz Peavy Burnnet Jair Vasquez. if Frenchy hits we want need another bat.
By Steve from OH
December 6, 2008 5:18 PM | Link to this
Scoots, I’m glad you brought Vazquez up b/c his BABIP has been consistently higher than the .290ish average—which might explain why he has good stuff and good peripherals but average results. Actually, he’s only had a few seasons with a sub-.300 BABIP from a quick glance: 2003, in which he posted a 3.24 ERA and 2007, when he posted a 3.74 ERA, and in 2001, when he posted a 3.42 ERA w/a .290 BABIP. Every other season he’s had a .300 or higher BABIP (I’m eyeballing those figures, could’ve missed a season or two because I’m trying to type and watch ‘Bama-Fla at the same time).
Thoughts?
By David O'Brien
December 6, 2008 5:28 PM | Link to this
Don’t be surprised if Alabama wins this game. Nick Saban looked more businesslike than Urban Meyer.Millsaps
Well, that’s an interesting way to pick a winning team.
But seriously, this is a helluva game so far. Both coaches look pretty businesslike. That’s important.
I’ll stick with my Florida by 14 prediction…
Oh, and happy birthday Peter Buck (52) and Tom Waits (59).
By David O'Brien
December 6, 2008 5:33 PM | Link to this
Another way to try to comprehend Maddux’s greatness, is to consider this fact: A pitcher could begin his career with 15 consecutive 20-win seasons … and still be 55 wins shy of Maddux.
A.J. Burnett, who will be 32 in January, has 89 career wins and would need to average 14.8 wins a year from now until he’s 50 to match Maddux.
By David O'Brien
December 6, 2008 5:36 PM | Link to this
CC Sabathia, who won 17 games in 2008, would have to average exactly 17 wins a season for the next 14 years — through age 41 — to catch Maddux.
By J.L.
December 6, 2008 5:47 PM | Link to this
To the stat people, remember the official scoring is now a political thing and should be factored in. Also on KJ. he does not have the best hands,many times he has trouble getting the ball out of his glove on double play possibility Both he and Prado have done everything asked of them.I’d hate lose either one of them. If Smoltz comes back,our biggest problem is the whole outfield,many questions an few answers.
By N8
December 6, 2008 5:49 PM | Link to this
DOB
That’s the part that some (not Braves fans), forget to point out with Maddux and Glavine, in fact any of the 300 game winners throughout MLB history, is their AVAILABILITY.
The fact that Glavine was 41 before he ever went on the DL, speaks volumes.
MLB (and other major sports), are littered with great talents that couldn’t stay healthy. The fact that those guys were as good as they were, AND never missed significant time is amazing.
I can recall the Mets trio (Wilson, Pulsihper and Isringhausen), being touted as the next “Big 3” after Maddux, Glavine and Smoltz.
They very well might have been as “good” as those guys early in their careers, but the fact that NONE of them could stay healthy robbed them (and baseball fans), of what might have been.
Bo Jackson falls into this category as well.
In fact, the fact that Smoltz is still considered to be a HOF caliber pitcher with all of the surgeries and time missed, speaks to how GREAT he has been throughout his career.
Simply amazing, IMO. I’d say that Braves fans don’t know how good we had it. But the past three seasons should certainly point that fact out, if memory has failed anybody. LOL!
How many wins would Randy Johnson be closing in on if he would have been blessed with the health of Maddux and Glavine? Pedro as well.
I guess in a way, maybe that “ups” the value of a guy like Vazquez. He’s not nearly as dominant as any of those guys, but there is something to be said for a guy that goes to the post every five days.
Don’t mean to ramble, but even in the Braves “circle” in recent years, perhaps Chuck James and Horam fall into the category. BOTH of them seemed to be on their way to decent careers, until the injury bug set in.
Brett Favre gets a lot of credit for being great (which he is). But a lot of his greatness has to do with his availability week after week.
All of these mentioned athletes (among others not mentioned) are freaks of nature.
I for one, think that MLB will NEVER, EVER see a trio of pitchers dominate and be in the same rotation the way that the BIG 3 did. Not even close.
The day that MLB loses all three of those guys will be a sad day for baseball, indeed.
By brian
December 6, 2008 5:51 PM | Link to this
yars - I am surprised that the Braves don’t go after Ankiel instead of Ludwick. I know that Ludwick is right handed and that is what they need but Ludwick hits better against righties than lefties. I would go for the better player and that is Ankiel. It would be a steal for the Cards to get KJ for Ludwick unless there is a somewhat significant prospect involved as well
By J.L.
December 6, 2008 5:56 PM | Link to this
N8 Very well said.
By Eric B
December 6, 2008 5:57 PM | Link to this
Maddog was the man and the CC and Burnette comparisons really put it into perspective. We Braves fans of the 9o’s were indeed spoiled by three great pitchers…those were the days lol.
By Randy S
December 6, 2008 6:16 PM | Link to this
Greg Maddux has as many career complete games as Johan Santana has career wins (109).
Maddux is one of only 3 pitchers to throw over 5,000 innings (5008.3) and allow less than 1,000 walks (999). The others are Pud Galvin and Grover Alexander.
By Steve from OH
December 6, 2008 6:22 PM | Link to this
So, does anyone think that there will be any voters out there with the balls to not vote for Maddux for the HOF? It would be a crying shame if he’s not a unanimous selection.
Heckuva SEC title game goin on. Wow. 17-17, 3rd quarter.
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
December 6, 2008 6:23 PM | Link to this
Florida by 14?
NOT GONNA HAPPEN.
This game is going right down to the wire and it’s anybody’s to win or lose.
By brent a.
December 6, 2008 6:27 PM | Link to this
Also, an odd note for the day …
John Sciambi is currently on ESPN, calling the KY-Miami game.
Kentucky fans are griping, and wondering who in the world he is.
Must be a big football day if Boog is needed in Rupp Arena.
By semiballcoach
December 6, 2008 6:37 PM | Link to this
can anyone name a switch-hitter who throws left handed?
By AdirondackDave
December 6, 2008 6:38 PM | Link to this
Brian — I agree with you. I’d like to see Ankiel in a Braves uniform. Actually, I’d like to have both because if we only get a another lefty power hitter, we’ll be facing a bunch of southpaw pitchers next year.
By 18 Wheels of Love
December 6, 2008 6:51 PM | Link to this
Lance Berkman, only switch hitter that throws lefty I could find.
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
December 6, 2008 6:52 PM | Link to this
Here is a blurb from this article about how the Braves have been aggressive in pursuing Ibanez:
The Braves have been particularly aggressive on Ibanez as they have been with Burnett, to whom they reportedly extended a four-year, $64 million offer with an easily attainable fifth year option.
In the past, it has not been the Braves’ style to get into the high-stakes free-agent game, but between $49 million of payroll in John Smoltz, Tom Glavine, Mike Hampton and Teixeira coming off the books plus an additional $8 million in insurance on Tim Hudson next year, Braves GM Frank Wren is suddenly flush with cash and poised to leave Vegas a big winner.
As of yesterday, only eight of the 171 free agents had signed, and while the slow market figures to pick up somewhat in Vegas, other than the Yankees, Red Sox, Angels and, to a lesser degree, the Braves, the depressed economy appears to have most teams disinclined to enter into expensive long-term contracts.
I haven’t heard or read any other story about the Braves being aggressive with Ibanez save one from Stark over a month ago…
By Goat Horns
December 6, 2008 6:53 PM | Link to this
It is Tommy John Surgery - not Tommy Johnson.
KJ was a shortstop coming up by athletic ability only. He did not have the hands to be a major league shortstop or we would be talking about him as a replacement SS if Yunel were traded.
The Braves improved the pitching staff in 1991 by improving the defense - Belliard, Bream, Pendleton, and Otis Nixon.
We need to keep that in mind when selecting a left fielder. Every defensive position is important!
Infante killed us last year in left.
Good defense saves a pitcher pitches which allows him to pitch more innings as well as giving him confidence.
Our team defense was poor last year. Only First Base (Tex and Kotchman) played GG caliber defense.
The poor defense had a huge effect on the young pitching staff.
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
December 6, 2008 6:54 PM | Link to this
I would love nothing more than to see the Yankees go hard after D-Lowe as opposed to AJ:
While the CC Sabathia waiting game continued and the Braves made an official offer for A.J. Burnett, Brian Cashman decided to get aggressive in his pursuit of another top free-agent pitcher: Derek Lowe.
“Cashman met with agent Scott Boras Thursday, according to a source, to discuss the 36-year-old righthander. Cashman was not reachable for comment, but it is believed that no offer was made, though that could come later this week or during next week’s winter meetings in Las Vegas. Cashman is also believed to have discussed other Boras clients, including Oliver Perez and Mark Teixeira, but Lowe was the focus.”
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
December 6, 2008 6:59 PM | Link to this
The first paragraph in my 6:54 PM post is obviously a part of an article and should have been quoted as well…just making sure no one thinks I am trying to take credit for something someone else wrote…
By safebet
December 6, 2008 7:08 PM | Link to this
??? has anybody heard if braves have intrest in G. anderson
By f.n. hale
December 6, 2008 7:10 PM | Link to this
this Tebow cat is pretty good
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
December 6, 2008 7:13 PM | Link to this
Game over. Florida wins. Chaos rules supreme in the BCS. I love it!
The playoff system is in place everywhere except division one NCAA football. This is too funny.
By f.n. hale
December 6, 2008 7:14 PM | Link to this
Goat “It is Tommy John Surgery - not Tommy Johnson”
depends on which ligament is being replaced :)
By Richard E. Ride
December 6, 2008 7:15 PM | Link to this
Maddox is retiring… FRANK WREN: WHY HAVEN’T YOU SIGNED HIM YET??? CAN’T STOP THE CHOP, BABY!!!
By Dirty Dumpers
December 6, 2008 7:17 PM | Link to this
Has anybody heard if the Braves have interest in the World Series?
By Saltywoody
December 6, 2008 7:23 PM | Link to this
Another way to try to comprehend Maddux’s greatness, is to consider this fact: A pitcher could begin his career with 15 consecutive 20-win seasons … and still be 55 wins shy of Maddux.
That’s remarkable.
By semiballcoach
December 6, 2008 7:24 PM | Link to this
thanks 18 wheels
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
December 6, 2008 7:32 PM | Link to this
Get the picture. Florida 31 Alabama 20. The Gators have the ball with less than 90 seconds left in the game. O’Brien is screaming at the TV , KICK THE FIELD GOAL ! KICK THE FIELD GOAL ! Gimme my 14 point spread, DAMMIT !
By Random
December 6, 2008 7:33 PM | Link to this
Lew: “Random-Snippy in that you can be a real @$$ a lot of the time? Dude-Keep in mind you’re still only an ALMOST Wurlitzer winner. You need to work harder and definitely not dispute my proclamations if you want to be as good as you already think you are.”
**ALMOST?!?!? — my how times (and the fine print) have changed! Are you taking it back now?!?!?
I thought you were my bud, Bud, and that all the recent barbs you’ve been sending in my direction were intended as affectionate little forget-me-nots.
Oh, well.
And for the record, no I do not think Escobar tanked temporarily because he was “sad” (your word) or “distraught” (DOB’s) that he lost his “best friend”.
No, what I saw was anger — angry, passive-aggressive resentment against Braves management for a stupid transaction which approximately 95% of the denizens here agreed was stupid and/or a mistake (releasing Pena and keeping Miller) and which also affected him personally.
Anger, not sorrow. Fire, not tapioca.
And everybody knows that anger is more easily redirected than sorrow, and also more easily dissipated. Which, if either, is the case for Escobar, only time will tell.
PS: You can stuff your meaningless Wurlitzer, along with your tablets of stone, and the arc of the covetous.
PPS: I didn’t dispute your proclamation, JasonInFL (formerly ME) did. You should smite him, not me. Yes, yes — smite JasonInFL (formerly ME)!!! Smite him, smite him!!!!! (Spare me, lord.)
PPPS: Forgive me? Please? I’m working on a sonnet for the Hammer — what’s the deadline again?
By Charlie Leibrandt
December 6, 2008 7:35 PM | Link to this
How many more trades before we can guarantee getting beat in the cheeks again next season? And where the hell is Greg Olson??
By mitchie-san
December 6, 2008 7:45 PM | Link to this
Anyone ever read that story about how Maddux is so accurate at his pitches, that he could hit the glove of blindfolded catcher? I forgot where I read it, but it was a good story.
I have always been a Maddux fan and am glad to be able to say in twenty years I saw him pitch.
Congrats on a fine career, Greg.
By Mark Lemke
December 6, 2008 7:49 PM | Link to this
Suckers.
By Random
December 6, 2008 7:51 PM | Link to this
f.n. hale: “Someone, I think bubdylan, made a comment yesterday about strikeouts being sexy.”
Perhaps it was me — I mean, if you like it and agree.
Otherwise, it probably was that scoundrel bubdylan!
Damn him!!!!!
(JK, of course.)
By Tommy Glavine
December 6, 2008 7:56 PM | Link to this
Chicks love the long ball…
Suckers.
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
December 6, 2008 8:01 PM | Link to this
mitchie-san, click here for an article on a catching catching Maddux with his eyes closed…
By i can't take it anymore
December 6, 2008 8:06 PM | Link to this
DAVID… Thanks for the word on Smoltz. What a great plus he would be if he comes back dealing. It sounds like we’ll see him again…this pretty much makes my christmas. Also, i was wondering if you had heard about joe satriani taking coldplay to court over plagerism? i heard the comparison of the two songs last night…i would be pretty upset,too.
By Random
December 6, 2008 8:06 PM | Link to this
f.n. hale: “I’m kinda new to analyzing stats so if I’m wrong I hope and assume someone will point that out.”
Sounds reasonable to me. Don’t know about “sizeable” difference, but definitely noticeable, imo.
Where are you going for stats schooling — Baseball Prospctus? I’m seeking to learn more myself.
Cheers.
By Joe M.
December 6, 2008 8:07 PM | Link to this
MLBTradeRumors:
Talk that the Cards could trade Ryan Ludwick to the Braves was mostly rumor and “never had traction.”
Good! Sign a free agent and don’t trade away one of our good incumbent middle infielders for a one year wonder.
By Lew
December 6, 2008 8:24 PM | Link to this
Random-That last post proves what I’m saying. WTF are you talking about with the anger crap? The other day I got a dig in jest about numbing posts-only in reference to your own comment about rubbing people raw. I wasn’t angry or upset-just kidding around.
However if you really want to take it to another level, you won’t be the first (or likely the last) on the blog to take that stance. Whatever. Like I said-sometimes you post some truly revelatory stuff-other times, you DO sound like a complete @$$ (pretty much like most of us) and are nowhere near as witty with your reparte as you think. I’m certainly not the first to point this out to you.
As to the Wurlitzer-Dude, you got a couple prints-NOT a Wurlitzer drawing-because I thought one post was on point and said something that needed saying (whatever it was). If you consider the Award so beneath you then have no fear- You won’t ever be offered one. I sure as hell don’t need to spend in the vicinity of 40 or more hours drawing something nice for someone who holds me in such contempt.
AS for the thing with Yunel-Dude, that is so meaningless. I mean, even were you right (which again, I ‘m not the only one who disputes this), it is an insignificance and to quote the lyrics of an old Jefferson Airplane song-“It doesn’t mean Sh!t to a tree”. It is and was and always shall be a non-issue.
By Tank Tankersely
December 6, 2008 8:27 PM | Link to this
If anyone believes a single sentence that Bobby Cox utters in reference to one of his players, I have some ocean-front property in North Dakota I’d like to sell you.
In Bobby’s world, everything is fine, wonderful and just dandy.
By Lew
December 6, 2008 8:30 PM | Link to this
Random-AS to the thing for Hank Aaron-If you don’t want to participate, then don’t. It doesn’t matter to me in the least.
Do you actually think I do this for gain or benefit to myself or something? I’ve never made a penny from anything I’ve done for this blog. I do all artwork myself and I pay for all postage myself (except for a $10 check someone sent when I did the Skip prints).
Believe me-if this whole thing comes to fruition, I will make nothing. It will, in fact, cost me the weeks it will take to paint the award for him. I will pay to frame it myself. If I get to present it to him (with a couple other bloggers at my side), I will have to spend several hundred dollars to fly to Atlanta. So if you aren’t interested, it’s no sweat off of my fat @$$.
By rainman
December 6, 2008 8:32 PM | Link to this
to me it looks like juan rivera looks like the best option for left. not the cleanup guy but a good stick.
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
December 6, 2008 8:55 PM | Link to this
Tom Verducci over at SI.com put up this great article about Greg Maddux
It’s a fascinating read.
By Random
December 6, 2008 9:03 PM | Link to this
N8: “Bo Jackson falls into this category as well.”
Oh, come on, now — Bo played professional football in addition to baseball.
Please do not offer him as an example of MLB players’ fragility.
Bo knows.
By chase
December 6, 2008 9:04 PM | Link to this
why dont the braves get rocco baldelli… i mean look at the numbers he put up late last season with the ray’s. he would be cheap … why dont they just take a chance i mean u can probably get him cheap. I mean the scouts what the scouts said before he got hurt, He has the potential to be the next mickey mantle
By 30YearBravesFan
December 6, 2008 9:06 PM | Link to this
Okay, I know this is a blog on Burnett, DOB, but I just read your article on Smoltzie throwing off the mound, and I am PSYCHED!!!! about the thought of him being in there pitching for us next year.
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
December 6, 2008 9:15 PM | Link to this
ESPN at least now has a pitcher as manning the 5th spot in our rotation, but it now lists Clint Sammons as our CF…
By Bubdylan
December 6, 2008 9:33 PM | Link to this
effin’ hale, twas me that called strike-outs sexy, but I come to that comment from a specific angle. I’ve never actually cared a hang for one kind of out over another. And in judging the effectiveness of a pitcher, I don’t even know where it fits in.
BUT, when I booted up mlb.tv and watched Vazquez pitch, thinking to myself I was getting a glimpse at our new ho-hum innings-eater, I noticed that, if you’re gonna sit down to watch a non-ace pitcher who might just as easily lose you the game as win it, it is nice to be entertained by those zippy strike-outs of his along the way.
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
December 6, 2008 9:42 PM | Link to this
Please allow me to go ahead and answer anyone who questions which team cap Greg Maddux will wear into Cooperstown.
Maddux won three of his four straight CY Young awards with Atlanta.
Mad Dog won his only World Series with the Braves.
He was selected to play in eight All-Star games (six with Atlanta) but only played in four of them, which says much about the true humility of Maddux.
The Professor won thirteen straight Gold Gloves (18 total). Ten of those Gold Gloves came in his eleven seasons in Atlanta.
The smartest pitcher alive had his best years as an Atlanta Brave, compiling a record of 194-88 (an astonishing .688 winning percentage) with an ERA of 2.63 over the course of eleven season with the Braves. (career 355-227 and an ERA of 3.16)
There really should be no question whatsoever what hat Maddux will wear into Cooperstown.
Interestingly enough, Maddux was traded just once in twenty-three seasons and won the gold glove at his position eighteen out of nineteen seasons, excluding 2003 when Mike Hampton won it that year.
By Jeff R
December 6, 2008 9:43 PM | Link to this
I’ll repeat: I don’t think a Peavy deal is toast by a long shot. Winter meetings may well change the dynamics when Towers and Wren go face-to-face, and when Towers appreciates that other clubs can’t put on the table what the Braves are offering.
By David O'Brien
December 6, 2008 9:46 PM | Link to this
He has the potential to be the next mickey mantle.Chase
Yeah, if Mickey was a fourth or fifth outfielder who couldn’t play every day because of a rare disease.
Baldelli has mitochondrial myopathy, and made an inspirational return to baseball, but still must rest whenever his muscles simply don’t have the energy to function, and there’s no way to know if it’ll get worse again, or when.
Tampa Bay could have had him back by exercising a $6 mill option, and declined.
By 18 Wheels of Love
December 6, 2008 9:48 PM | Link to this
Tom Verducci on Maddux
Some of his tricks, of course, he did not share. I learned only this year, for instance, about one trick he used on the mound that just blew me away, a real giveaway to his genius that no one else could possibly think of. I hope someday he lets me share it with you.
I think I know what it is….every time Maddux would pitch I always noticed his hat would end up crooked, kind of like how CC Sabbathia wears his hat, except Maddux would mostly wear his hat normal, but then all of a sudden at the strangest times during AB’s he would turn his hat ever so slightly, just enough to make you focus on it and not the AB. To this day I swear he did it on purpose and that it was part of his plan of distraction with hitters. I wish there was a way to confirm this. DOB, call him out on if you get a chance.
By AdirondackDave
December 6, 2008 9:50 PM | Link to this
Sure looking forward to the GMs meeting and some holes getting filled, especially a power outfielder. Even if we reel in AJ, or somebody at that level, can we really compete with a true cleanup hitter? Seems to me Chipper’s going to walk more and more without another big bat in the middle of the order.
Ok, it’s been nearly a week and I’m still in mourning over Flowers. I get visions of this guy pounding 42 homers and playing first base over there. I know he may not even make it to the bigs, but still…
By Bo
December 6, 2008 10:08 PM | Link to this
It would be nice if Braves would sign Mad Dog for one game so he could retire as a Brave. Is that possible?
By DAP
December 6, 2008 10:18 PM | Link to this
i am also very excited about the smoltz article. smoltz is my favorite brave ever, and i will be very very excited if he can make it to our rotation next year. what a boost that would be.
for the rest of this offseason, when we are projecting the starting roation, we need to make sure we dont forget about smoltz, because id say, after reading his quotes, there is a very good chance he will be in it.
By Mike in LA
December 6, 2008 10:19 PM | Link to this
Everyone whose defending KJ right now won’t be when he’s dropping popups at the end of games. I don’t care what anyone says that game against the Phils was one of the big turning points in the season for many reasons. The Braves would have been just 2.5 games behind the phils if they held on but ended up being 4.5 behind and sliding. They wasted a terric performance by Tim Hudson and could have given Blaine Boyer a huge shot of confidence. As everyone knows Boyer’s season got pretty ugly as the season continued. Trade Kelly while he’s still a hot commodity. Ryan Ludwick, straight up would be great. Even if he doesn’t duplicate his 2008 performance he could surely hit .275 with 25hr which would surely improve the pathetic outfield from a year ago. The reputation gained from his great season last season would also help Chipper get great pitches and get off to another torrid start. And Ryan Ludwick couldn’t possibly make more than 5 mill next year. Get rid of Kelly, it improves the offense and defense.
By McFann O –[zzz]
December 6, 2008 10:25 PM | Link to this
JasonInFL …but it now lists Clint Sammons as our CF
Sheesh…That would be a big switch: From catcher to CF’er…
Night, all!
By David O'Brien
December 6, 2008 10:28 PM | Link to this
Sure looking forward to the GMs meeting and some holes getting filled, especially a power outfielder. AdirondackDave
I wouldn’t count on that happening in Vegas. Wren has already said it might be spring training or later before it gets done. I don’t think it’ll take that long, but it wouldn’t surprise me at all if it’s later than next week.
By Bubdylan
December 6, 2008 10:34 PM | Link to this
Mike in LA, if Kelly doesn’t drop that ball and the Braves gain momentum, they maybe don’t trade Tex for Kotchman, and we only tread water until Hudson’s arm goes out.
And then we have a fourth hole to fill at 1b this winter, and maybe don’t compete for the top pitchers.
Now, I suggest to you that when Kelly saw that ball pop up in the air, he asked himself if Bobby Cox really was silly enough to think that winning this Philly series would put the Braves back in the race. He calculated the winter dollars which keeping Tex would cost us and, being the ultimate team player, he let the ball drop.
If we have add a good free agent pitcher to the rotation in the next couple weeks, we have Kelly Johnson’s advanced thinking to thank.
Of course, if we hire Burnett and he camps out on the DL for 5 years, well, we really can legitimately blame an entire lost era of Braves baseball on that one dropped pop-up, which ought to satisfy a few among us.
By keylargo
December 6, 2008 10:43 PM | Link to this
can anyone name a switch-hitter who throws left handed?semiballcoach
I think Madonna is left handed.
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
December 6, 2008 10:46 PM | Link to this
DOB, what’s your gut feel that the Braves will land their ace before the end of the meetings?
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
December 6, 2008 10:51 PM | Link to this
keylargo, that was pretty funny!!
By 18 Wheels of Love
December 6, 2008 10:53 PM | Link to this
I think Madonna is left handed.
Which side is Arod on?
By Chipper 4 MVP
December 6, 2008 11:13 PM | Link to this
AROD has said hes going to play for the Deminican in the WBC. I believe I heard Chipper is playing right? Since he was 2nd to AROD in the last WBC, you think he might start most of the games in this one?
By Drummerdad
December 6, 2008 11:36 PM | Link to this
DOB, Nice pick on the SEC winner and score. Impressive. Looks like Smoltz is working towards giving FW a nice problem to have.
By N8
December 6, 2008 11:46 PM | Link to this
Random
The ONLY reason I mentioned Bo Jackson in the conversation, was because I was talking about guys that had all world talent, but either careers were cut short (like Bo’s - in BOTH sports), or guys who’s careers never got going (andybody remember the “little Unit” Ryan Anderson in the Mariners system?).
I wasn’t trying to criss-cross the two sports. Len Bias could be put in that category. Even Steve Avery.
The whole point of the post, was to show that not too many guys get to the HOF (in any sport) without remaining reasonably healthy for a good long time.
My guess is that Bo Jackson never gets into the HOF (in either sport), though one could argue that had he remained healthy, he just might have done it in both sports.
By David O'Brien
December 6, 2008 11:51 PM | Link to this
How ‘bout ABC using the Neil Young tunes for bumper music going into commercials all night? I don’t know what inspired that, but very cool. Heard “Hey Hey, My My” and “Cinnamon Girl” and “Rockin’ In the Free World” and a few others.
But what was the deal with Brent Musburger? Late in the game several times he asked, “How could they possibly leave OU out of the national championship game?” Brent, I don’t think anyone but you was either thinking that was ever a realistic possibility tonight, and certainly not after the Sooners put this game away before the end of the first half….
JasonInFL, I think there’s a good chance they will get it done before end of meetings, but if not then shortly thereafter. But I don’t think it’s a given that Burnett is coming here. A good chance, though, better right now than any other team’s chances of landing him, I’d say.
By David O'Brien
December 6, 2008 11:54 PM | Link to this
Bubdylan, very funny at 10:34. You handled that well….
By David O'Brien
December 6, 2008 11:59 PM | Link to this
McFann, that was obviously just a typo on their part regarding Sammons in CF. Sammons ain’t playing CF.
But I would point out to you, interestingly enough, Craig Biggio was primarily a catcher in his first four seasons with the Astros (1988-91), and a decade later he was a full-time center fielder in 2003.
He played LF/CF in 2004 before moving back to 2B, the position he’d played from 1992 to 2002.
By David O'Brien
December 7, 2008 12:01 AM | Link to this
I think we might have the most one-sided Braves poll in ajc.com history: Right now, in the question of whether the Braves should re-sign Smoltz, it’s 1,145 yes votes and 54 no votes. That’s a 95.5 percent to 4.5 percent margin.
By David O'Brien
December 7, 2008 12:08 AM | Link to this
Hey, too bad I haven’t picked baseball playoff races and series lately like I picked games and the fight today.
I talked to Bowman tonight on the phone, he was in the sports book at the Venetian in Vegas. He asked me about the fight, and I told him to take Pacquiao, because De La Hoya lost too much weight at his age and looked gaunt at the weigh-in.
Then again, after the eight MLB playoff teams were set, I picked the Cubs to win the NL pennant, Boston to win the AL pennant, and I think I remember picking the Cubs to win it all, though it’s a vague memory now.
With that in mind, I’ll stop patting myself on the back for today’s outcomes, none of which really should have been too surprising.
By Nocturnal Owl
December 7, 2008 12:08 AM | Link to this
I’m not sure if this has been brought up or not but A.J. better not receive an opt out clause. I don’t remember if any Brave gotten one before. A.J. just opted out and left the Jays blindsided! Thats why Roy Halladay will not be traded.
By Ron in mobile
December 7, 2008 12:09 AM | Link to this
So whats the over-under on how many cigarettes Nick Saban has smoked tonight?
Im thinkin 15 may be modest
By Nocturnal Owl
December 7, 2008 12:20 AM | Link to this
Florida by 14?
NOT GONNA HAPPEN.
This game is going right down to the wire and it’s anybody’s to win or lose. Coach
Guess coach is always right after all..
By Chop Chop
December 7, 2008 12:34 AM | Link to this
DOB,
De La Hoya hasn’t looked good in a fight in years. Pacquiao had every reason to be ready to take down a big name. I have no idea why anyone would have put money the Golden Boy.
Coach,
Nice post of Tom Verducci’s article on Maddux. I wish more athletes were like Mad Dog. There are so many interesting angles to any sport, especially baseball, that it makes me wonder how any player could ever get bored.
By uga-brave
December 7, 2008 12:49 AM | Link to this
DOB,
wow buck is really 52, i remember goimg to the WUXTRY in athens and meeting mike mills in the 80’s.
i know flange rememebers the wuxtry. great old record shop in the classic city.
matriculating in athens provided so many good music oppurtunities.
saw love tractor, smithereens, quadacanl diary, dreams so real, jason and the scohchers, dash riprock, widespread, govt mule, among others.
i really want one of those way back machines.
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
December 7, 2008 1:00 AM | Link to this
Hey, Owl. I actually watched the Florida/Alabama game. The score should have much closer. I’m not trying to take anything away from the Gators as I cared little about who won or lost. It’s just that Florida caught some real breaks from the referee’s which helped them right before half time and in the fourth quarter to score two touchdowns.
The two teams were evenly matched, it’s just that one was more fortunate to get away with some mistakes and that helped to turn the tide against Alabama.
I said that Florida would not win by 14 and they didn’t. the spread was 11. As for going down to the wire, the game should have been decided by three points had the referee’s called a better game. But, I still think that Florida would have won and the finish would have been a nail biter.
All in all, it was a good game that should have been a great game.
Chop Chop, here is another link to Greg Maddux
Enjoy.
By uga-brave
December 7, 2008 1:03 AM | Link to this
bay area steve,
there is one whiskey left. i prefer makers mark.
By man stink
December 7, 2008 1:14 AM | Link to this
Thanks for the link Coach,great read. Think my Maddux rookie card is a keeper?
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
December 7, 2008 1:24 AM | Link to this
Nah , your Maddux rookie card is worthless. I’ll trade you my Roger Clemens rookies straight up. Deal?
By man stink
December 7, 2008 1:34 AM | Link to this
Let me think about it—- ummmm —- nope, sorry. It’s not rookie (I wish it was) It is 88 topps.
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
December 7, 2008 1:45 AM | Link to this
As for offering A.J. Burnett a rumored 60 million with four years and possibly the fifth year (75 million total), I think Frank Wren must love poker. Hey, It’s not my money. But, pitching is the best investment one can make.
However, A.J. Burnett did finish the 2008 season with a flourish. His record during the last fifteen starts: 9-2 with an ERA of 2.72 and ten quality starts.
Frank Wren and the Braves are taking a risk. Burnett has quit the checkered history. But, when healthy, he is dominant. After what Atlanta experienced with Hampton and all the arm injuries this past season, they must have real faith to be making this contract offer.
By Johnny B
December 7, 2008 3:59 AM | Link to this
I would love to see “Mad Dog” back in a Braves uniform! Pitching coach, bench coach, special assistant to Bobby, manager in waiting when Bobby calls it quits….Hmmmm
By BravesFan79
December 7, 2008 4:32 AM | Link to this
Maddux should be a coach on the Braves NO doubt! Perhaps then Bobby could have someone advise him wisely on what pitchers to bring in a game, and when a pitcher just does not have it.
Think how much less flack Bobby would get from us fans if a HOF pitcher was pulling the pitching strings from the side instead. Also would allow Bobby to focus more on overall game management.
By Bob Wickman
December 7, 2008 5:22 AM | Link to this
DOB, I was a great clubhouse guy, I don’t know WHAT you’re talking about.
If I rubbed anybody the wrong way, it was only because there wasn’t quite enough room for me to squeeze past them.
By Andy
December 7, 2008 6:20 AM | Link to this
DOB,
What is AJ Burnett like in the clubhouse?
By Joe M.
December 7, 2008 7:07 AM | Link to this
Everyone whose defending KJ right now won’t be when he’s dropping popups at the end of games.
How many times has that happened? Once? Geez, let it go already. Johnson isn’t the only one who made a defensive mistake that cost the Braves a win in 2008. The Braves would still have finished fourth even if it was caught….the only difference may have been that the Mets would have won the division instead and who wants that?
Trade Kelly while he’s still a hot commodity
Now, why is that? If he is as bad as you and a few others here say he is, why is he drawing such significant interest from other teams (according to Ken Rosenthal a couple of days ago)? You just so smart and the GMs just so dumb about Johnson’s play?
I wouldn’t count on that happening in Vegas. Wren has already said it might be spring training or later before it gets done. I don’t think it’ll take that long, but it wouldn’t surprise me at all if it’s later than next week.
O’Brien, do you think the Burnett signing (with any team, not just the Braves) will happen anytime soon?
By Mystical Ball
December 7, 2008 7:28 AM | Link to this
Greetings blog readers. I am the magical, all-powerful ball that Kelly Johnson dropped in that regular season game in June that doomed the Braves’ season.
You see, to nine out of ten sane Americans, I am just a ball and that was just one game lost for multiple reasons including Escobar’s bad baserunning, Blaine Boyer’s two walks with two outs in the ninth that set me up, and no clutch hitting. These same people even have the nerve to think it was more the Braves’ lucky pitching in the first half with a paper-thin rotation that wasn’t sustainable or sustained that caused the meltdown in the second half and not my powers!
But to my followers, I hold special powers. I have the power to make the Braves lose a bunch of games consecutively after my drop to Earth. I have the power to make others can’t hit or field, to lose games in which I wasn’t in and cost the Braves the twenty games they finished out of first all by myself…all and soley because I was dropped. My magical aura took over the team and single-handly did them in.
I demand more from my followers than to spout my powers over Braves’ blogs. I want you to build giant, symbolic golden cows at Turner Field in my honor and to spread my message and worship me from websites you yourselves created. Get on it, lest I carry over into the 2009 Braves’ season.
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
December 7, 2008 7:56 AM | Link to this
My comment about ESPN listing Sammons as the CF was meant to be tongue in cheek since some here think they walk on water…
By f.n. hale
December 7, 2008 8:05 AM | Link to this
Random re your 8:06 - I mostly go to Fan Graphs. I like Baseball Prospectus but inevitably get wrapped up in something and am led to the premium areas and just not ready to make the commitment to paying yet.
bubdylan re your 9:33 - I wasn’t calling you out on the strikeout thing. I totally agree with you but it got me to thinking and I remembered Mad Dog’s take on strikeouts which I always found interesting. The article Steve from OH sent responded with seems perfectly reasonable to me though, but I might add that things that apply to everyone else in baseball might not apply to Maddux. Dude seemed to know what hitters were going to do before they did. BTW great take on your 10:34.
By Ebravesluvr
December 7, 2008 8:09 AM | Link to this
Apparently nobody believes that momentum is a serious thing in baseball. Apparently nobody believes that your opponent getting a mental edge over you doesn’t matter. Apparently people are too busy sticking up for a player for a stupid pop up to realize that momentum and mental edge mean nothing.
For the record, I don’t believe the Kelly Johnson dropping the pop up is what cost us the 2008 season but it DID give the Phillies a decided mental edge over the Braves in a game that the Braves BADLY needed to win and it also gave them momentum to keep pounding our brains in. The fact of the matter is…the game was WON. It was OVER….if Kelly had just held onto the stupid ball. It killed our momentum, you could literally see the life get sucked out of the entire teams face as soon as that tying run scored. True, it was one game….but it was a big game. A game we NEEDED to win. Doesn’t matter if it was Kelly Johnson, Jeff Francoeur or even Brian McCann, whoever did it, whoever dropped that ball would’ve taken the same heat that Kelly has ever since it happened. It’s not a “I hate Kelly” thing. It’s an “I hate that it happened thing”.
By f.n. hale
December 7, 2008 8:37 AM | Link to this
*Ebravesluvr * I don’t see the responses you’re referring to the same way you do. What I see is several folks that ARE blaming that play for the lost season and not only that but saying KJ is a bad defensive 2nd baseman based on that play. The responses to those, IMO haven’t said the play wasn’t bad, clearly it was, but that a) it didn’t kill the season and b) you can’t use one play to show a guy as a defensive liability. In my mind if the Braves were so devastated by that one loss they couldn’t recover they were way too emotionally fragile to compete and I just don’t think that was the case, though I could be wrong. Stats show that KJ is an average to slightly above average defensive player who will make some errors, some of which will hurt a bunch and others that won’t. I think he’ll get better, but that is just a gut feeling which may be tainted by my hopes, but heck, I think Frenchy will bounce back and always thought Andruw would one day put his offense together and be the best player in the game, so my gut isn’t all that reliable.
By Vermin Fisher
December 7, 2008 8:37 AM | Link to this
News Flash: The Atlanta Braves announced this morning that the second of the top two starters has been signed, Albie Lopez. Frank Wren indicated that Albie will slotted at either 1/2/3 with some combination of sophomore Jair Jurrjens and Javy Vazquez. As the Braves seek maintain the mediocrity of the last 3 years.
Per Bobby Cox, Albie was “lights out” in the Mexican sandlot gimp league. We have been following him for a long time and really enjoyed enriching him in 2002. We believe the years have been kind to Albie and if he could deliver the same kind of performance that he gave the Braves in 2002, (i.e. 1 win in 30 appearances) then we could have a shot at displacing Washington in the East cellar.
When asked about the search for a corner outfielder, Wren noted that the Braves are very close to signing Lonnie “Skates” Smith who will be 54 later this month. Lonnie really fits in our clubhouse and his defense in left field cannot possibly be any worse than it was in 1991.
By Efrim
December 7, 2008 9:31 AM | Link to this
This is a portion of Ken Rosenthal’s latest column:
The Angels’ John Lackey will be the top free-agent starter available next offseason, assuming that teams exercise club options for several other top pitchers (including Beckett).
The Blue Jays’ Roy Halladay and Diamondbacks’ Brandon Webb could become free agents after the 2010 season, but both have shown at least some desire to remain with their present clubs. Both also could be traded to high-revenue teams that could sign them to contract extensions before they hit the open market.
The Giants’ Matt Cain, Tigers’ Justin Verlander and Yankees’ Chien-Ming Wang loom as the top free-agent pitchers in ‘11. The Cubs’ Carlos Zambrano, Phillies’ Cole Hamels and Astros’ Roy Oswalt all could be free agents in ‘12. But by then, Barack Obama will either have been re-elected or voted out of office.
I doubt any of those pitchers will even reach free agency. He forgets Zach Greinke after 2010. He might have a better shot at getting to free agency than Brandon Webb or Roy Halladay.
By f.n. hale
December 7, 2008 9:58 AM | Link to this
Don’t know if this has been brought up, apologies in advance if it has, but Eric Seidman had this take a couple of days ago on FanGraphs:
*”NAME IP FIP WAR A.J. Burnett 190 3.90 +3.3 Javier Vazquez 200 3.92 +3.3 Jair Jurrjens 160 3.84 +2.9 Jorge Campillo 160 4.12 +2.4 John Smoltz 94 3.57 +2.0
Campillo’s projection was a tad skewed due to Jorge pitching out of the pen and lacking much major league tenure entering this year, as well as the fact that it does not slot him as a full-time starter in 2009. I adjusted it to something in between what the systems are calling for, taking his rotation spot into account. For Smoltz, this assumes he only pitches 2/5 of the season or so. Still, even with 40% of Smoltz, this rotation would be worth 13.9 wins above replacement, a four-win improvement from last season.
What happens if Smoltz comes back and pitches more than these 94 innings though? What if he logs 165 innings at a 3.45 FIP, which would actually be his highest such mark since 1994? In that scenario, Smoltz would be worth +36 runs, or +3.6 wins as opposed to two wins. In that scenario, the Braves would be getting a steal with Smoltz, because there is no way he will sign a 1-yr deal for his fair market value of $18 mil. It would also add another 1.6 wins to the projected 13.9, bringing the Braves potential rotation to +15.5 WAR, an improvement of almost six wins.
We don’t know if Campillo can build on his 2008 performance; if Jurrjens can avoid the sophomore slump; if Smoltz will return and/or stay healthy; or even if Burnett will end up as a Brave. If all of this comes to fruition, however, the Braves could realistically put out an extremely potent rotation.”*
Entire article at: http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/new-look-braves-rotation
By Dadgum
December 7, 2008 10:01 AM | Link to this
If Smoltz can help the Braves in ‘09 it would most likely be as a starter. Not jumping the gun here only speculating due to the small number of available pitchers on the market the Braves may acquire.
A healthy and effective Smoltz could be placed in the #2 slot behind a Burnett/Peavy. With Jurrjens, Vazquez, and Hanson that is a formidable rotation possibility.
Pitching out of the pen would require Smoltz to constantly be warming up and pitching more which would be harder on his arm from a layman’s point of view. Being an effective starter and throwing every 5th game is easier and definitely more what the Braves need. Given his reported progress it looks good but still too much to consider just yet to pencil him in as a starter.
Rock on…..DOB oh, yeah, seems I took “Bama and those 14 points earlier in the blog. Sam Adams Lager will be just fine.
By kris
December 7, 2008 10:05 AM | Link to this
DOB: what if the Padres called today and said they want to do the Peavy deal for what was offered? Would the Braves pull their offer for Burnett or say thanks but no thanks? tia
By kyle
December 7, 2008 10:13 AM | Link to this
Any word on when will Ohman will decide? On a scale of 1-10 (10 being he is back in a Braves uniform) what the chances he is back?
By McFann O –[zzz]
December 7, 2008 10:19 AM | Link to this
Bubdylan—
Your 10:34 PM post was hilarious!
DOB—
I know it was a typo, I was just kiddin’. I didn’t know that about Biggio—that’s pretty cool. I knew he started out as a catcher, but I didn’t know he ever played CF.
By McFann O –[zzz]
December 7, 2008 10:21 AM | Link to this
Ebravesluvr it also gave [the Fillies] momentum to keep pounding our brains in.
Oh! “Haha”…I get it…
By AdirondackDave
December 7, 2008 10:36 AM | Link to this
I know it’s way too early to go overboard about Smoltz but this is the hot stove season and anything positive is worth getting excited about. What a difference-maker he is, whether it’s in the rotation or bullpen. Seems to me if he returns as a starter we go from 3-4 in the standings to serious contender. Think about AJ, Smoltz (healthy), Jurrjens, Vazquez, and maybe Hanson. That’s potentially a very strong 1-5. Add a serious hitter in left field to protect Chipper and Mac I would like our chances against anybody. But it starts with strong pitching and that’s why Smoltz could make all the difference in the world, seems to me anyway.
By Steve McP
December 7, 2008 10:45 AM | Link to this
I don’t blame the mystical ball for last season.
I blame the Chopping Cow - since it arrived nothing went well.
Destroy the holy cow and Braves luck will return.
By AdirondackDave
December 7, 2008 10:47 AM | Link to this
Kris — I’d also like to hear DOB’s thoughts about what the Braves reaction might be if the Pads call back about Peavy (or if Frank runs into their guy at the Vegas hotel.) I would hope they would find a way to get Peavy. This guy is a true ace, relatively cheap for locked up for years. However, I would try everyway possible not to give up Escobar in the deal, maybe with a half dozen lower lever prospects along with Reyes, and a bullpen guy. Overwhelm them with a numbers offer, at least try before giving up Escobar at this point…
By woogidy
December 7, 2008 11:06 AM | Link to this
DOB, What’s the chance of Mad Dog getting elected into the HOF unanimously? Let’s discuss this. Is this a real possibility?
By Lew
December 7, 2008 11:19 AM | Link to this
woogidy-Probably not. Lord Knows Maddux deserves it, but so did Ripken, Jr.. I’m afraid that there will always be some And Idiot who will decide that if Babe Ruth or Lou Gherig weren’t a unanimous choice that no one ever should be. It’s definitely a lame view, but I’d be willing to bet that’s what happens.
By Joe M.
December 7, 2008 11:20 AM | Link to this
DOB, What’s the chance of Mad Dog getting elected into the HOF unanimously? Let’s discuss this. Is this a real possibility?
No. Considering no one has, including people even more deserving than Maddux, I think it is safe to say that someone will vote no, if just to ensure that it isn’t unanimous. Also, I think there is a writer in Chicago (or somewhere) who said when he voted no on Cal Ripken that he would never vote for ANYONE for any reason who played during the steroid era, even if they’re perfectly clean.
If Babe Ruth got 95.13% of the vote, Ty Cobb 98.2%, Bob Gibson 84% and Cy Young 76%….what makes you think Maddux will get 100%?
By Joe M.
December 7, 2008 11:23 AM | Link to this
Also: Hank Aaron in 1982 got 97.83% of the vote.
So yeah, I think someone, somewhere will vote no.
By woogidy
December 7, 2008 11:33 AM | Link to this
I didn’t say I think he will, just asking, getting opinions. If not 100%, maybe the highest percentage of all time?
By FloridaBrave
December 7, 2008 12:09 PM | Link to this
DOB,
The Palm Beach Post is reporting that the Marlins are actively shopping Jeremy Hermida. Have you heard anything about the Braves being interested? He’s not a middle of the order guy(at least not yet) and doesn’t bat right-handed, but he’s young, talented, cheap and was born in Atlanta.
I hope they’d at least look into it with Florida giving away Olsen and Willingham for a song and a dance.
By 18 Wheels of Love
December 7, 2008 12:10 PM | Link to this
Maddux will get a higher % than Seaver, if not 100%.
By Davey Johnson's Locker
December 7, 2008 12:46 PM | Link to this
We’ll be laughing at you, not with you HAHA
Who’s we? You and who else?…Yeah what?, you’re the only one who said that in this blog. So you’re alone.
Why are you jealous of my optimism…oh yeah, youre a Mets fan…never mine.
Cheers, mets fan!
By Fan-coeur (Frenchy has heart)
December 7, 2008 12:59 PM | Link to this
I’m sick of the negative comments to my man Frenchman. He’s 22, for Pete’s sake! He’s in his prime now, and he’s working hard for 2009. It is not possible for him to have a worse season than last season. Logic says he’ll come back as he did his first two years, where he excelled and turned heads. He’s working on his patience and he does know how to use a bat (the guy who said he doesn’t know how to use a bat).
Hope we get both Ludwick and Burnett!
GO BRAVES!
By Joe M.
December 7, 2008 1:07 PM | Link to this
@12:59, I hope your post is satire.
He’s 22, for Pete’s sake!
He will be 25 before spring training.
Logic says he’ll come back as he did his first two years, where he excelled and turned heads.
He sucked in 2006. In 2007 he was an average offensive right fielder and in 2008 he was historically bad. Spare us. 2009 is probably his last chance.
By nolie
December 7, 2008 1:08 PM | Link to this
He forgets Zach Greinke after 2010. He might have a better shot at getting to free agency than Brandon Webb or Roy Hallada Efrim
or like numerous others, he does not consider him an ace
By McFann O –[zzz]
December 7, 2008 1:09 PM | Link to this
Fan-Heart He’s 22, for Pete’s sake!
No he’s not…he’ll be 25 in a month and a day.
I also wanna letchya know that I’m pulling for your man to have a good year…no where to go but up!
By Efrim
December 7, 2008 1:16 PM | Link to this
Nolie
or like numerous others, he does not consider him an ace
I’m not really sure what an ace is. I like Matt Cain, but is he an ace? I like to think of Greinke as a frontline starter. Whether that makes him an ace or a #2, is still left to debate. I’d take any of the guys Rosenthal listed, but do I believe Greinke belongs in that group listed? Yep.
By HAHA
December 7, 2008 1:29 PM | Link to this
…oh yeah, youre a Mets fan…never mine. DJLocker
Nah. I’m just a fairly realistc Braves fan. What are you? 12 years old?
By HAHA
December 7, 2008 1:32 PM | Link to this
Very funny Mr Ball. Obviously anybody who thinks you influenced more than a game or two at the most is a total nut-job who desperately needs psychological counseling.
By Fan-coeur (Frenchy has heart)
December 7, 2008 1:57 PM | Link to this
I meant nevermind, mets fan! HaHa, yourself.
By brian
December 7, 2008 2:09 PM | Link to this
hopefully Smoltz gave Francoeur the card of his good sports psychologist.
Frenchy is a gifted athlete, but so much of big league sports success revolves around what is going on between the ears. Frenchy psyched himself out last year. The Braves had it right to send him down for a while last year. It was not simply to work on his swing but to clear his head. The Braves blew it by bringing him right back up.
By Nocturnal Owl
December 7, 2008 2:16 PM | Link to this
Frenchy is a gifted athlete
The golden child loves swinging at those balls in the dirt…
By MT Braves Fan
December 7, 2008 2:18 PM | Link to this
Sounds like good news from Smoltzie’s throwing session the other day. Here’s hoping he can come back healthy! I’m speculating here, but can anybody really picture the dominant Mr. Smoltz ending his career with an injury? I bet he’ll be back for one more healthy season. So assuming (and it’s still a big assumption at this point) that he comes back healthy, and the Braves in the end are either able to add Burnett or (gasp: Peavy) they have the makings of a very good rotation:
Burnett/Jake Smoltz Jurrjens Vazquez Hanson/Campillo/Morton
That, plus a competent left fielder and our good bullpen being healthy, makes us a team that will have to be dealt with all season.
By Wayne in Utah
December 7, 2008 2:22 PM | Link to this
Sounds like the mystical market for Jake Peavy is drying up! What a surprise…
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
December 7, 2008 2:25 PM | Link to this
Another source is telling Heyman over at SI that the Peavy to the Cubs trade “is on life support”. This whole thing has been a great example of how NOT TO handle any “project” let alone the trading of an ace pitcher. Towers really should just suck it up, make a deal with the Braves, and see if Jake the Snake accepts. I bet the Braves would still be interested if Towers would put his ego aside, tuck his tail between his legs, and knock on FW’s room this weekend.
By Yars
December 7, 2008 2:32 PM | Link to this
brian…..I agree with you 100% man. I, for one, was expecting .280/30/110 type numbers from Frenchy in ‘08. I’m glad the front office didn’t give up on him. Sure, I guess they could have traded him for a bag of balls like they did with Langerhans. Not comparing Frenchy’s potential to Langy’s, (I always saw Langy as a 4th OF) but they could have sent Frenchy packing to the Royals or some bottom of the barrel s** team. I pray he has a solid spring training that leads to a great ‘09 season. That being said, if he stinks it up in ST & has a rotten April-May or however long he is given to redeem himself, I’m curious what will happen. now playing: ant music by adam & the ants.
By Joe M.
December 7, 2008 2:43 PM | Link to this
I’d LOVE to see the Braves sign Burnett and then trade for Peavy. But would they? They have the money to sign Burnett and trade for Peavy, but the Braves don’t have the money to sign Burnett, trade for Peavy and sign Furcal. Who is going to play shortstop if they sign Burnett and trade for Peavy and how can they afford it?
Does getting Burnett (and I hope the Braves do get Burnett, even if it….) officially end the Braves-Peavy thing?
By TexasBrave
December 7, 2008 2:46 PM | Link to this
DOB not saying the Braves would, but just for kicks and giggles would be the repercussions, if any, of revisiting a deal for Peavy during winter meetings? Just speculating on whether it would hurt or help our pursuit of AJ.
To me it seems you can’t have too many irons in the fire when you are looking for an ace.
By TexasBrave
December 7, 2008 2:57 PM | Link to this
Joe M. I am with you that would be great but most likely can’t happen because there is not enough money to spend to get our other needs. What I would like though is to pick up another innings eater in the form of Vazquez that would not cost us as much to put in the 4 slot and then give the 5th slot to Smoltz or Glavine, or one of Campillo or Morton.
By David O'Brien
December 7, 2008 2:58 PM | Link to this
Just got in my room, after waiting 45 minutes (no exaggeration) for bag at airport (often happens here when you land at a far terminal), and sitting in stop-and-go traffic on The Strip, while enduring my cab driver cackling as he listened to the Prairie Home Companion.
“I love radio theatre,” he said, in a tone that suggested he thought I’d share that love.
“Great,” I said. “Can we go up on that curb and driven down the sidewalk for the last 200 yards, since it looks like it’s gonna take 20 minutes here on the road?”
“You in a hurry,” he said, looking at me in the mirror like I should shut up and listen to the radio with him.
Then he laughed at another hilarious sound ( banjo) made by the sound-effect guy on the ol’ Prairie Home Companion.
The juxtaposition to all the glitz and lights and marquees on hotels/casinos surrounding us on both sides of the road, and cowboy-hat wearing National Finals Rodeo fans walking past our stalled taxi, only added to the strangeness of the moment.
By Fans
December 7, 2008 3:05 PM | Link to this
I, for one, was expecting .280/30/110 type numbers from Frenchy in ‘08. I’m glad the front office didn’t give up on him
When Frenchy and KJ have another “off-year”, I wonder if the general consensus will continue to be “they are still developing and have potential” here on the blog.
In NY, KJ gets booed 4 months of the year, and Frenchy would all 6.
Just goes to show that NY fans want performance, but ATL fans are satisfied with the potential and likeness of a player.
By David O'Brien
December 7, 2008 3:06 PM | Link to this
FloridaBrave: No offense to Hermida, who might develop into a solid player. But please, the Braves would not be upgrading significantly, if at all, by acquiring him. They’re looking to add a lot more productive bat than that.
As Wren said, they’re not going to make a move just for the sake of making a move. They’re not looking for cheap, affordable guys who’ve not been productive in the majors. They’re looking for a proven run-producer.
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
December 7, 2008 3:10 PM | Link to this
DOB, looking forward to hearing what might come FW’s way in the next couple of days. You never know what will happen…JS certainly didn’t think he would be laying the groundwork to bring Hudson to the Bravos when we got him.
I am interested in what you think FW’s response would be if KT came knocking on his door tonight!!
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
December 7, 2008 3:17 PM | Link to this
The Peavy trade speculation is dead.
The Padres Khalil Greene was more than likely part of the proposed deal and is now in St.Louis. Atlanta has traded Brent Lillibridge and Rafael Furcal is nothing more than a pipe dream at the moment.
There isn’t another SS in sight besides Yunel Escobar. No wait, Diory Hernandez is on the 40 man. Yea, he’s taking over for Escobar. NOT.
Atlanta is solely focused on A.J. Burnett at the present time. Until his fate is resolved, everything else is grist for the mill.
By Yars
December 7, 2008 3:36 PM | Link to this
Fans……how in the world can you say that KJ had an off year? His offensive numbers were solid. Sure, his HR total was a bit low, (I was hoping he would have hit around15-18 HR) but overall, pretty good numbers that will only get better. Don’t pre-judge him on his defense. He’s an average 2B. Will never be a Sandberg type 2B, but is decent. Let me guess, you’re a Prado fan? Hey man, if KJ is traded & Prado is our everyday 2B, I’m behind him 100%. I just can’t see him ever putting up KJ type offensive numbers. His defense isn’t much better either. now playing: personal jesus by depeche mode.
By nolie
December 7, 2008 3:37 PM | Link to this
but do I believe Greinke belongs in that group listed? Yep. Efrim
fair enough, I don’t think he is proven enough under and pressure situations which when combined with his known emotional/mental baggage, keeps him out of that elite class for me. he has good stuff for sure, but at this point I’d like to have him but not at the very top of an ideal rotation. Would he help the Braves? I agree that he would. But there are others who do not put him in the elite class and I just suggested that the writer might have left him out for that reason rather than just forget about him. Who knows?
By TexasBrave
December 7, 2008 3:38 PM | Link to this
Oh really Coach then why pray-tell does DOB keep insisting that it is not? Do you know something that he doesn’t? I am sure right now that the Braves are more interested in AJ but if it falls through the Braves will have to do something. I can’t see them entering ST with JJ as our ace and I don’t like the prospect of acquiring Lowe.
By Chris
December 7, 2008 3:47 PM | Link to this
It’s amazing how for the second year in a row the Braves are trying to build their team around players that are a “gamble”. None of those gambles worked out last season, and I see no reason to believe they will this season. This team is turning into the joke it was before the 90s.
By Yars
December 7, 2008 3:53 PM | Link to this
coach…….if KJ isn’t traded, we’ll have Prado & Infante as our backup IF. Prado, I can see taking a lot of ground balls at SS in spring training since he’s more experienced at 2B/3B/1B. now playing: the kkk took my baby away by the ramones.
By Josh P.
December 7, 2008 4:01 PM | Link to this
Chris - I know you’re referring to Burnett, but so far the Braves haven’t added a player that could be considered a “gamble”. Vazquez’s consistency has been well documented, and the only other moves they’ve made have been of minor significance.
I know Burnett is a gamble. But The Braves want to rectify their rotation asap, and as it stands now A.J. Burnett is the most efficient way, in terms of ability, salary & prospects (as in not having to give up any).
CC is too expensive, Lowe is going to enjoy a long bidding-war, and the Padre’s front office is a stage 5 charlie foxtrot. After the quadruplet of CC, Peavy, Lowe & Burnett, the list of available starters falls off a cliff.
By Steve from OH
December 7, 2008 4:05 PM | Link to this
If the Braves sign Burnett I can’t see them trading Escobar for Peavy because we probably won’t have enough money left to sign Furcal, let alone fill the LF void. The other FA shortstop options are less than ideal, to say the least, and we’ve got approximately zero good in-house options at the moment. It’s ok, though, because we’ve got Esco in the fold. Same goes for KJ at second, but I do think Travis Jones is a decent 2B prospect. I’d like to see Brandon Hicks perform ably in AA before I pass judgment on him, lol.
Who knows? Maybe we do sign Burnett and find a way to trade for Peavy w/o giving up Escobar. I really doubt it will happen (like 1% chance), but if Towers and the Cubs can’t find common ground, I can maybe see the talks re-opening with a “blank slate,” so to speak, because Towers will be fresh out of suitors. If Burnett doesn’t sign with us, I’m sure FW will be on the phone in a heartbeat…and I’m not sure I like how that deal may possibly go down. Then Towers would have leverage. If we signed Burnett and the Cubs dropped out, he would probably have none.
By steveP
December 7, 2008 4:13 PM | Link to this
DOB…in your professional opinion, what are the odds that Burnett signs with the Braves? better than 50%? Do have a sense of what Plan-B might be?
By Richard Nieh
December 7, 2008 4:18 PM | Link to this
In fact I think Braves don’t need to trade for one more outfield bat.
Jordan Schafer has been talked about for 2 years now and he has been through a lot but his number is always respectable.
Why not just call him up? To me, he is a 25-30 homer guy even though not really gauranteed. No one available can gaurantee a 25 homer season anyway. We can just put Jordan up there and see what he will do.
Seems Smolts is doing well to recover, so if he join the rotation next year and Braves can successfully sign AJ, the rotation look good but last year’s rotation also pretty dominant looking. I say one more arm does not hurt. Frank still kept the package Peavy trade. I still hope Braves can can Peavy and then get Furcal back.
By Daybed Wagmoe
December 7, 2008 4:49 PM | Link to this
Wren talks about possibly adding a LF bat in Spring Training or possibly later, but that worries me. What kind of effective, run-producing bat will be available in ST? It seems that the kind of player we’d need — a proven power guy who can drive runners in — would be the kind of player a team would want to keep if they’ve got him going into ST.
Remember, the Braves picked up Mark Redman in ST — I’d shudder to think that if we don’t have LF in place by then, we might have to go over a LF comparable to how Redman was as a pitcher.
I’m sure that I’m missing something here. There’s always needs the crop up in ST, needs that come up due to injury or other factors. Is that was Wren is thinking will happen with another team, and he’ll use one of his pieces in a trade to fill the LF hole?
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
December 7, 2008 4:50 PM | Link to this
Hey, David O’Brien knows much more than I do concerning the dollars to doughnuts that the Braves have to spread around.
But I do know this.
Peavy wants all five years of his current contract guaranteed with the no trade clause extended through the life of the deal. Atlanta doesn’t do no trade clauses.
The Braves have most if not all of their attention on A.J. Burnett right now. He is rumored to cost an average of 15 to 16 million per season.
Atlanta still needs to factor in the money needed to pay another outfielder or two.
Then we have the spectre of Smoltz and Glavine. The good news about Smoltz is welcome. But, how much cash do the Braves need to allocate for the two future Hall of Famers?
Vasquez and Ross have chewed up 13 million. Leaving the Braves with roughly 27 to 32 million needed to cover all the rest.
By Santa no trade Clause
December 7, 2008 4:51 PM | Link to this
The Braves need to get Brandon Webb.
By nolie
December 7, 2008 4:56 PM | Link to this
The Padres Khalil Greene was more than likely part of the proposed deal and is now in St.Louis. Atlanta has traded Brent Lillibridge and Rafael Furcal is nothing more than a pipe dream at the moment Coach
I thought it was pretty well established that the Braves did NOT want Greene? I’m not saying that the deal is or isn’t dead, I’ve always been skeptical about it happening, but I don’t see what the Greene trade has to do with driving a stake into it’s heart.
By Josh P.
December 7, 2008 4:58 PM | Link to this
Daybed - It worries me to think about the Brave’s not improving the OF from last season too, but what Wren is saying is the team isn’t going to make a move that doesn’t fit just for the sake of making a move…like singing the OF equivalent of Mark Redman. Blech!
By nolie
December 7, 2008 5:01 PM | Link to this
Who knows? Maybe we do sign Burnett and find a way to trade for Peavy w/o giving up Escobar Steve-O
I think you were right to begin with. I don’t see any way they can afford both of those guys with their other needs still unmet. People suggesting it might happen are likely dreaming a little.
By nolie
December 7, 2008 5:05 PM | Link to this
Jordan Schafer has been talked about for 2 years now and he has been through a lot but his number is always respectable.
Why not just call him up? To me, he is a 25-30 homer guy even though not really gauranteed. Richard N
would you please elucidate as to what in his entire minor league career would make you think that he is likely to come anywhere even close to those homer totals?
By GTgirl
December 7, 2008 5:08 PM | Link to this
Hey DOB, What about Marcus Thames? 25 HRs in just under 2 AB per game. Not sure about his defensive ability? Can’t be much worse than what Dunn would bring.
By dyeman
December 7, 2008 5:14 PM | Link to this
If I could choose between getting both aj and peavy and keeping our outfield in house or getting only one of the before mentioned pitchers and a decent outfielder then i go with both starting pitchers in a heart beat.
By Patrick
December 7, 2008 5:16 PM | Link to this
DOB,
Where did the AJC put you up? Mirage, Venetian, Caesars?
Also, some good restaurnts to try out there. Social House at Treasure Island…phenominal sushi! Tommy Bahama’s paradise cafe and for breakfast…the terrace cafe at the Wynn cannot be beat!
By nolie
December 7, 2008 5:17 PM | Link to this
Excerp from the Seattle News Tribune by Larry LaRue on Ibanez
Lou Piniella, who saw the drive but never the payoff in Seattle, was in favor of letting Ibanez go in 2000. When he watched Ibanez play for the Royals, he told Mariners scouts he wanted that left-handed bat back.
Ibanez was never the best outfielder, the fastest runner, and his natural abilities wouldn’t have gotten him far in the major leagues.
What made Ibanez the player that contending teams – including the World Series champion Phillies – covet was his work ethic. Last year, on a team that lost 101 games, Ibanez played all 162 games.
On a great team, he’d probably be a No. 5 or No. 6 hitter. He didn’t have the luxury in Seattle, especially after returning to the team following the ’03 season. Instead, Ibanez played left field and batted third some days, fourth in others.
He batted .293 with 23 home runs and 110 RBI last season at age 36. Over 986 career games as a Mariner, Ibanez hit .284.
This time, the Mariners will get a pair of draft picks in return, and hope that he signs with a National League team. One of the reasons the Mariners brought Ibanez back was the damage he did against them in two seasons in Kansas City.
The Mariners will miss more than Ibanez’s bat. In a clubhouse where few veterans talked, he was accountable – after good games and bad. He took younger players aside and talked baseball with them. He’d challenge veterans.
And after every game, he hit the weight room to work out.
By Steve from OH
December 7, 2008 5:25 PM | Link to this
Nolie:
Right, which is why I put the odds of that happening at 1%.
By Mr. J
December 7, 2008 5:37 PM | Link to this
In the remote event that Burnett was signed, and then Escobar traded for Peavy, there’s got to be somebody out there with a slick fielding, light hitting shortstop they’d be willing to trade for some pitching prospects.
The prospect of a Peavy/Burnett/JJJ/Vazquez/Smoltz rotation is too good to pass up if its a possibility. Bring up B. Jones and Schaefer for the outfield, then rely on pitching and defense. The Braves have done it that way before.
By Efrim
December 7, 2008 5:41 PM | Link to this
I’d love to have Ibanez, but I’m not sure spending 3 years and 30 million for a 36 year old outfielder, who is left handed, is the best way to fill our LF need. He is a career .268/.322/.411 against left handed pitching. Now, if he was right handed…
By dyeman
December 7, 2008 5:47 PM | Link to this
i agree Mr. J. If it is at all possible to aquire and afford both pitchers then FW has to do so. I would much rather have a dominant rotation and mediocre lineup than the other way around
By AdirondackDave
December 7, 2008 5:52 PM | Link to this
Nolie - you bet, Ibanez is just what the doctor ordered. He’s a lefthander that hits lefties as well as right handers. I don’t know what he would cost but I’d rather give up a couple of draft picks than good prospects which will happen if we trade for an outfielder. Hope Frank is seriously considering him.
By nolie
December 7, 2008 5:53 PM | Link to this
I’d love to have Ibanez, but I’m not sure spending 3 years and 30 million for a 36 year old outfielder, Efrim
is that the latest figures being bruited about? Does seem kinda high years-wise. Last I had seen was 2 yrs 21-22 mil. I’d do that.
By DAP
December 7, 2008 5:54 PM | Link to this
AROD has said hes going to play for the Deminican in the WBC.
i doubt this, since he is puerto rican. he can either play for the US or puerto rico.
richard nieh i think the braves will call up jordan shafer, but they still need another outfielder. preferably a righthanded LF with power. none of those thing describe shafer
By David O'Brien
December 7, 2008 5:58 PM | Link to this
SteveP, I think they have every intention of letting Schafer win the CF job this spring if he shows he’s ready. But that’s not the answer to the run-producing bat they’re looking for. That in addition to, or whatever. That’s their CF, most likely.
The veteran run-producer would most likely be in LF.
And no way you’re gonna tell me that Jordan could be expected to hit 25 homers as a rookie. Or 20. That’d be a big surprise if it happened, not to be expected at all.
By David O'Brien
December 7, 2008 6:00 PM | Link to this
Can�t be much worse than what Dunn would bring.GTGirl
Well that’s no endorsement, because Braves have no interest in Dunn. Never have.
And Thames, while no doubt a powerful bat, is a whiff machine who hits for a low average and a .302 career OBP. That’s awful. He’s had .278 and .292 OBPs the last two years.
By cabravesfan
December 7, 2008 6:00 PM | Link to this
DAP
Alex Rodriguez’s parents are, in fact, from the Dominican Republic, NOT Puerto Rico
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
December 7, 2008 6:01 PM | Link to this
I had posted a link in the last blog about a guy in one of the NY papers stating that the Braves were aggressively pursuing Ibanez…I hadn’t heard anything like that other than a Stark article about 6-7 weeks ago. Plus, if they were, I think DOB would catch wind of it.
By David O'Brien
December 7, 2008 6:04 PM | Link to this
Patrick, I’m at the meetings hotel, the Bellagio. Quite nice. (We get a media rate for the meetings.)
You gonna start naming restaurants in Vegas? Dude, there are probably 300 great restaurants in Vegas. Every nice hotel has a handful of them (this hotel alone has something close to 20 restaurants, including a Prime and a fine seafood/asian fusion type place).
Unfortunately we don’t get time at Winter Meetings to do much of anything but work inside the hotel. It’s morning to late night, chasing stuff, rumors, trades, etc. And I’ve got BBWAA business to take care of on top of that, meeting to chair and all. So it’s gonna be a very busy time, with the Maddux thing added now and also chance that Torre goes into Hall tomorrow, etc
It’s not like at GM meetings, where we had time at night to go around to some good restaurants around the area. Lot more work at these meetings.
By Efrim
December 7, 2008 6:12 PM | Link to this
Nolie
I thought I heard Olney or Stark say that in an article, but I could be wrong. I agree, I wouldn’t give Ibanez more than 2 years for 20 million, with a third year as an option. There are a lot of corner outfielders with what the Braves need, power. But it looks like they are taking other things into account, which makes sense. Rosenthal just wrote an article saying Dye, Cameron, Byrd and Thames were like the only right hander bats available through trade. Hopefully Wren can pry a guy away who hasn’t been talked about.
By David O'Brien
December 7, 2008 6:12 PM | Link to this
DAP, A-Rod is Dominican, and has said he’s going to play for the Dominican WBC team.
By Davey Johnson's Locker
December 7, 2008 6:13 PM | Link to this
HAHA:
Wow, I come back to read this? A ‘what are you 12-years-old’ line lacks originality. Youre definitely an idiot.
P.S. and what are you, an old f*@t?
P.P.S. You know, theres a blog for Mets fans too. You should try that.
By dyeman
December 7, 2008 6:16 PM | Link to this
DOB
I stayed at the Belagio last year and am going back in feb. I love that hotel. There is no place like it on earth.
The only problem I find with the balagio is that it takes like 20 minutes just to walk from your room to the strip cuz it sits so far back and you have to walk around the lake
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
December 7, 2008 6:16 PM | Link to this
Do the meetings “officially” start tommorrow?
By Lew
December 7, 2008 6:19 PM | Link to this
Nolie-Frenchy played 162 games two years in a row and lifted weights, too. Are they seriously calling that a qualification?
By Davey Johnson's Locker
December 7, 2008 6:20 PM | Link to this
If you like being realistic, why not root for the Nationals? Hey they need losers like you.
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
December 7, 2008 6:23 PM | Link to this
I had posted quite a few blogs back about the Mariners and if they would be willing to deal Bedard. Here is a blurb from Stark’s latest:
“The Putz rumblings during the past week have run the gamut, from “on the market” to “not interested in moving him.” So here’s the deal: Seattle would listen to talks about him, about Adrian Beltre, about Erik Bedard, about pretty much anybody.”
He is no Jake Peavy, but…
By Nocturnal Owl
December 7, 2008 6:25 PM | Link to this
What is the final say on the doomed blue jersey for the road?
Wonder if DOB will resist gambling in LV. Probably sounding busy already.
By A-Rod Betrays America
December 7, 2008 6:26 PM | Link to this
So despite being born in America, in New York, A-Rod is going to betray his home country, a country and a team he played for in 2006, for a country in which he should hold no allegiance? Time for a new nickname! I suggest one of the following three:
Benedict Rodriguez
Vidkun Rodriguez
Judas Rodriguez
By David O'Brien
December 7, 2008 6:32 PM | Link to this
dyeman, it also takes me about 15 minutes to get from my room to the media workroom in a ballroom at the Bellaggio. Huge place. Almost as big as the Opryland hotel in Nashville (last year’s meetings), but, uh, the scenery is much, much better.
By The Real Joebrave
December 7, 2008 6:35 PM | Link to this
One more time, For teh Love of all that is Holy, FW Please Trade J.Shafer before these people commit suicide… If This Doper falls on his arse in ST these cats will be Screaming for Your Head!!! Why? B/c You didn’t trade his arse to S.D. to get Peavy!!! Folks, Jake Peavy Is not, and will not be an Atlanta Brave!!! That Trade is DEAD!!! I doubt very seriousky A.J. Burnett signs here either. Meaning what??? Well Meaning a trade of Neccesity and desperation for Someone like Millwood,and signing Randy Wolf!!1 Then You guys can Cry about Why F.W. is the Worst G.M. in History,Only he isn’t!! He is actualy very Prudent. S.D. wanted Hanson,F.W. said He11 no!!! S.D. kept changing the Players after they were agreed upon, not Wren,so Basically Wren said Take Peavy and shove him up your Backside!!! Now on to things that are not pipe dreams.. One can only Hope that a Paul Maholm,and S.Baker are enough to make this team competitive.. I would rather have pitchers of this ilk, and pump money into Japan,and the Dominican… I think You will prolly see. Jon Garland,and either Sonnenstine or Maholm here next year, with say, a Nelson Cruz,or Austin Kearns for L.F.!!! Our Illustrious G.M.’s dropped the ball 2 years ago on Cliff Lee, should have made a play when he was sent to AAA to work out his mental probs!!! but NOPE they were too busy kissing the proverbial backside of Mike Hampton,and Tom Glavine, of Which Neither are fit for Pony League duty!! Here’s a question??? Greg Maddux said He never wanted to leave here, why in the Blue He11 was Glavine given 8 mill last year,When Doggie only worked for 7???
By steveP
December 7, 2008 6:35 PM | Link to this
DOB, the Schafer question was raised by Richard Nieh, not me.
This one was mine: By steveP December 7, 2008 4:13 PM | Link to this
DOB…in your professional opinion, what are the odds that Burnett signs with the Braves? better than 50%? Do have a sense of what Plan-B might be?
Thanks
By David O'Brien
December 7, 2008 6:38 PM | Link to this
There are rumors that Ibanez has enough suitors after him, including Cubs, Phillies and Mets, that he could end up getting as much as a three-year contract, despite his age. Could get about $10 mill per over two or even three years.
By The Real Joebrave
December 7, 2008 6:38 PM | Link to this
JasoninFl, Bedard???? He has a bum shoulder hasn’t pitched since July and hasn’t gotten it repaired yet either.Dude has a cyst and labrum problems!!!
By dyeman
December 7, 2008 6:42 PM | Link to this
DOB You are right on target on that one. I live in the nashville are and the “scenery” is way better in vegas.
Quality and Quantity!
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
December 7, 2008 6:45 PM | Link to this
From the same Stark article:
HIGH ROLLERS: Only four teams have shown they have bucks to spend this winter, recession or no recession — the Braves, Angels, Red Sox and (shocker) Yankees. That makes them dangerous in a market as cautious as this one.
That’s right Iceman, the Braves are dangerous!!
By The Real Joebrave
December 7, 2008 6:50 PM | Link to this
And now look, Madden from N.Y. says the Braves are in on Ibanez and suddenly he is the next coming of Barry Bonds… Wren has STATED NUMEROUS TIMES HE Is LOOKING FOR A RIGHTHANDED BAT to play L.F. and Slot between Chipper and McCann!!! Ibanez is a 36 year old Lefthand Hitting American Leauger, with a strong work ethic but Pi$$ Poor Defense!!! Geez!! When will you guys STOP???
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
December 7, 2008 6:53 PM | Link to this
LAST CALL: Finally, just for fun, we surveyed a bunch of baseball people this week on when they thought the big free agents will sign. Here’s how that turned out:
Player Earliest Latest Average Date Date Date A.J. Burnett Dec. 10 Dec. 15 Dec. 13 CC Sabathia Dec. 11 Dec. 28 Dec. 20 Derek Lowe Dec. 20 Dec. 31 Dec. 27 Mark Teixeira Dec. 22 Jan. 5 Jan. 1 Manny Ramirez Jan. 10 Feb. 2 Jan. 18
By David O'Brien
December 7, 2008 6:55 PM | Link to this
Steve, I think it’s better than 50-50. But ask me that question if Sabathia spurns the Yankees and A.J. hasn’t made a decision before then (which he probably won’t, not unless Braves just blow him away with a guaranteed fifth year deal, etc)
Don’t know what Plan B is, exactly. I’d revisit Peavy, but I don’t know if they’re planning to try that….
JasonInFL: It’s like I said, Braves have money to spend at a good time. They’re sort of a like someone buying a first house right now in this market, when prices are low and they don’t first have to sell their current house at a reduced price before they can buy a new one.
By The Real Joebrave
December 7, 2008 6:57 PM | Link to this
Smart Money says Kelly Johnson goes to Arizona,and Conor Jackson comes to the Braves…maybe F.W. can Squeeze Max Scherzer out of em 2!!!
By 18 Wheels of Love
December 7, 2008 6:59 PM | Link to this
Odd question…what is the format of this forum? Just wondering what format the bold and italics and all that stuff is done in.
By Jim
December 7, 2008 7:01 PM | Link to this
Dave:
Thanks for all your efforts. Know that it is impossible to be first on every rumor. Facts are always better. And, don’t bash Prairie Home Companion. Garrison go back to the late-70s.
As for Bravos, I go back even farthher. My dad and his cousin worked for them in Boston in ’30s. Went to first B’s game at Connie Mack Stadium in Philly in ‘54. Spahn and R. Roberts pitched and we rode back to hotel in my dad’s car with his cousin, E. Mathews and A. Pafko, and my new Braves official hat. Went to one game as a child in Milwaukee. Lew Burdette pitched his no-hitter that night and also drove in winning run with a double over 3d base off Gene Conley (Phillies). Met our old GM playing golf in Ireland a few years ago.
So, I live for your latest factoid. Enjoy LV. When you get “up” in Casino, cash it in and head home. Be a winner.
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
December 7, 2008 7:03 PM | Link to this
Sorry, I am no TennPaul when it comes to making a graph!! It looked pretty on my screen…basically, people are expecting AJ to sign this week…
By Fans
December 7, 2008 7:05 PM | Link to this
*Yars Fans……how in the world can you say that KJ had an off year?
Didn’t say he had an off year. In fact, it looked like last years but worse. He’s inconsistent. Look at the splits the last 2 years dummy and tell me if you see 2 months good, 2months bad.
His offensive numbers were solid. Sure, his HR total was a bit low, (I was hoping he would have hit around15-18 HR) but overall, pretty good numbers that will only get better
Not solid for 4 months, only for 2 months. And u thinking that “he’ll only get better” was my point precisely in my last post in case that went by u.
Ummmm, the 1 word i can come up with about the braves offense over the last couple of years is inconsistent. That’s y it boggles me that so many favor the 2 most inconsitent players on the team, KJ and Frenchy. I don’t favor Odarp, just consistency for an inconsitent lineup. If this were the Red Sox lineup, then it would hurt much less to have Johnson at 2nd. just my opinion obviously. I’m sure that’s what wren’s thinking if he is willing to give the guy up anyway. Now if you’re judging by the players wives, then i’m a huge Johnson fan, obviously.
By The Real Joebrave
December 7, 2008 7:06 PM | Link to this
He pitched hurt for most of the season, apparently. Bedard said today he has a labrum tear and a cyst in his shoulder.. Here ya go JasoninFl. words from the Man himself. Please No More Mike Hampton’s!!
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
December 7, 2008 7:06 PM | Link to this
Real Joe Brave, you may be right, but that hasn’t been talked about for a while now. You mentioned an article the other day crediting it to an Arizona paper…when it was actually a blurb from scouts.diamondbacks.com posted on November 6th.
*DOB, good analogy. Now, if the Yanks can just get CC or Tex or someone to get them off of AJ!!
By The Real Joebrave
December 7, 2008 7:08 PM | Link to this
And now for those of You the want and are pining for Rafael Furcal, He wants 52 mill.. And that ain’t happening in the ATL!!!!
By nolie
December 7, 2008 7:14 PM | Link to this
basically, people are expecting AJ to sign this week… *JasonFl8
great, but I’m not sure why he would want to do that.
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
December 7, 2008 7:15 PM | Link to this
RJB, I knew Bedard got hurt, and even though reports are that he will be ready by ST; I have to admit that I didn’t know it was a “frayed” labrum.
By BravesFanInRockies
December 7, 2008 7:17 PM | Link to this
Rosenthal’s now saying [Mike Cameron] (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8907628/Hard-to-imagine-Teixeira-in-D.C.,-no-matter-the-price?CMP=OTC-K9B140813162&ATT=49) may be available.
Fire up the rumor mill. Is Ryan Freel next?
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
December 7, 2008 7:18 PM | Link to this
Nolie, me neither…just trying to rehash the opinions Stark was able to ascertain regarding “expert” opinions on when he would sign…
By Mike in LA
December 7, 2008 7:18 PM | Link to this
In all liklihood the Braves are not going to be signing a free agent OF to fill their power need so it will have to be filled through a trade. I’m all for trading Kelly Johnson for Ludwick which I mentioned before but that rumor was squashed by a St Louis Paper a few days ago. I think a name the Braves should consider is Mike Cameron. It’s already been noted that the Brewers would be shopping him if they couldn’t resign CC and he would give the Braves that 25-30 hr they so desperately seek. He strikes out a lot but his obp, I think around .330, is much better than guys like Thames or Guillen. He would also bring more speed to the table than any previously mentioned power options and would still be a gold glove caliber player at any of the three OF spots. He would also be under contract for just one season which would be better than giving Ibanez, Dunn, or Burrell 3 to 5 year deals. The Brewers are looking for a Closer so how bout a Rafael Soriano and Gregor Blanco for Cameron swap? And if the Braves saw a void in their bullpen after this proposed trade they could sign someone like Trevor Hoffman for a year (which would be cheaper than Soriano) or trade for a young cheap stud using K Johnson, like they did with Laroche a few years back. Cameron wouldn’t be able to bat 4th due to his large strikeout totals but he’d be good in the 6 hole. I would try this lineup:
Schafer CF Prado 2B Chipper 3b Escobar SS Mccann C Cameron Lf Kotchman 1b Francouer RF
Thats a lineup that consists of speed, power, and several guys with high obp. Escobar’s homerun total could easily increase to 15 to 20 hr and he would be getting on in front of 2 power threats.
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
December 7, 2008 7:19 PM | Link to this
Of course, it could be that he wants to pitch for the Braves, the Braves have the best current offer out there, and that he will sign. Or, it could be he is like Tex, wants the absolute top dollar, and will not sign until CC signs. Some now think that with the Braves strong offer, he will sign before CC. Me, I have no idea. Of course, I hope he accepts our offer and the transformation of the rotation continues…
By The Real Joebrave
December 7, 2008 7:21 PM | Link to this
Here’s one nobody has mentioned, what if Milwaukee does’nt re-sign C.C., I wonder if Corey Hart could become available???? Now that would look very nice between C.J.and McCann!!!
By f.n. hale
December 7, 2008 7:22 PM | Link to this
DOB - I know it’s early but in light of the few bullpen pitchers having signed for much reduced years and money compared to last year, do you hear that’s likely to continue due to the market glut? At this point it’s looking like we might afford Ohman don’t you think?
JasonInFL - re your 6:23 - any mention of F. Hernandez by chance?
A-Rod Betrays - Dude they’re playing baseball. I’m assuming they aren’t planning to overthrow the U.S., but I could be wrong.
By TennesseePaul
December 7, 2008 7:27 PM | Link to this
A-Rod is Dominican, and has said he’s going to play for the Dominican WBC team
Technically he is American-Dominican. And three years ago he was an American Citizen born in New York city, playing for the US team. It’s rather nice of him to jump to the team which made it to the semi-finals. There aren’t that many Dominican’s that play, so it’s good that he helps them represent the country. I hear the DR’s first basman is terrible any way.
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
December 7, 2008 7:33 PM | Link to this
f.n. hale, he is about the one guy I doubt they would even listen on. He was NOT mentioned.
By The Real Joebrave
December 7, 2008 7:34 PM | Link to this
JasoninFL, Just don’t seem to be a prudent thing to do in Bedard.. Not being an arse dude but personally for me I’ve had enough of these glued together rotations… Say He11 no to Glavine,and Other over 40 pitchers!!! I know Bedard is Young but he is still Damaged Goods!!! All being said and done I am very anxious to see what F.W. comes up with.. But Cameron????Does anyone believe he will put up those numbers at the Ted??? I doubt that He will put up half of those numbers….
By David O'Brien
December 7, 2008 7:36 PM | Link to this
JasonInFL: Maybe he will, but why? Why would A.J. sign before CC, unless CC drags things out beyond the next week or two.
By that I mean, why would he sign today or in next few days before CC does, when Braves aren’t going after CC, and when Braves aren’t going to pull their offer for A.J. anytime soon, since no other top free-agent starters are available and seemingly no trade targets of his ilk, outside Peavy.
So if CC signs with Milwaukee or another team, the Yankees could well get desperate and throw a ffith-year guraranteed contract with a higher average annual value than $15 mill at A.J., even though they’ve indicated to NY writers that they don’t want to do five years with him. We’ll see, but really, not much to gain for A.J. to rush and sign in next day or two before CC makes a decision, at least from what I can tell.
If Yankees raise the ante, Braves might have to give A.J. a five-year deal worth more than the $15 mill-per-year they’ve so far offered in four-year contract with an option. That is, if they want him bad enough. Or they might just let the offer stand, guarantee that fifth year and be confident A.J. isn’t going to get an offer worth as much from NY, given higher cost and living and all, if he even gets a five-year offer from the Yankees, which still seems unlikely at this point.
By Hiawatha Terrell Wade
December 7, 2008 7:38 PM | Link to this
Dave, we know the Braves are looking for another starter and a right-handed power bat to play left field. They’ve already taken care of backup catcher. What other positions do you see them focusing on filling at these winter meetings?
Looking at the bench, if Yunel/Kelly up the middle stays intact, we have Ross, Prado, Infante, Diaz. If they keep Blanco or Anderson as insurance for Schafer, we seem light on power off the pine. Is it a given that the 5th guy is going to be Norton? Is it a given that Matt Diaz makes this team?
By The Real Joebrave
December 7, 2008 7:40 PM | Link to this
1B. Kotchman 2B.Prado ss.Y.Escobar 3B. Chipper LF. Corey Hart cf.J.Anderson RF. Frenchfry (unless he stinks the place up again) then ADIOS Gwinnett Golden Boy C.McCann probably a good line-up Starters Burnett(if he signs) Vazquez Jurrjens Wolf Hanson(may as well give the kid a shot) Pen: Campillo Logan Boyer Ohman Moylan Smoltz Gonzo Marek(this kid is for real!!!)
By Hiawatha Terrell Wade
December 7, 2008 7:41 PM | Link to this
I would think we can expect Ohman to make a decision this week as well.
By David O'Brien
December 7, 2008 7:42 PM | Link to this
I talked to Leo for a while this afternoon on the phone. Great talking to him about Maddux. He really does fully appreciate the entire experience of having Maddux, Smoltz and Glavine together all those years, doesn’t try to take credit for Maddux’s success, etc. Leo’s really fun to talk to about that stuff, had some great Maddux stories.
I’m writing a Maddux story for tomorrow’s retirement press conference. But it won’t be posted until after I get Maddux at the press conference. I’ll probably put some Leo, Glav, Smoltz and/or Cox quotes up here later tonight when I start assembling stuff from my concersations with those four guys about Maddux over past couple days.
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
December 7, 2008 7:42 PM | Link to this
MLB.com has a report stating the Braves are interested in Garland and O. Perez…I am hoping/guessing that was before the Vazquez trade…now, it’s time to land that Ace caliber pitcher, see what’s shaking in LF, and call it a GREAT offseason!
By Poco Fan
December 7, 2008 7:46 PM | Link to this
If the Braves do ink Burnett to a long term, big $$ contract, I hope he doesn’t fall under this team’s injury/health bugaboo regarding big name players, either traded for or FA signings. Mike Hampton, Bruce Sutter, Nick Esasky, Len Barker, and even Galaragga come to mind.
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
December 7, 2008 7:48 PM | Link to this
DOB, all great questions. I was just rehasing what “experts” offered to Stark after Stark proposed that AJ signs before CC. According to Stark, one AL Executive basically said that if the Braves will guarantee the 5th year, AJ’s agent can’t afford to not take it as it is very unlikely that anyone else will do that. Maybe a very attainable 5th year option is enough to get it done. Of course, with my limited intelligence, I would certainly agree that on the surface; it doesn’t make a lot of sense for AJ to sign before CC. But, maybe he likes the 75-80 mill offer, wants to play for Bobby and the Braves as he has said, wants to come back to the south, and isn’t Tex like when it comes to getting top dollar…q
By raindawg722
December 7, 2008 7:53 PM | Link to this
If Burnett’s wife being able to drive to games is a significant factor, that weights strongly in the Yank’s favor. New York is four hours tops from Baltimore, while Atlanta is closer to ten. And you’d have to imagine that the Yankees are at least going to match the Braves offer.
By NCBravesFan
December 7, 2008 7:54 PM | Link to this
Not sure Bedard would be available just yet anyway. What trade value would he have at this point?
The M’s best bet is to hope he comes back strong in time for the July 31 trade deadline.
When he’s healthy, the dude is definitely a stud. But after last year, there are too many questions about him.
By ccrider
December 7, 2008 7:54 PM | Link to this
To those that think the Braves can;t sign AJ and get Peavy and get Furcal. KJ, Chipper,McCann, Franceour,Kotchman, Schafer= $21 Mil. Infante, Ross, Prado, Anderson, Diaz= $6 Mil. Jurjjens, Vazquez, Hudson(Insurance Difference)= $18 Mil. Gonzalez,Soriano,Moylan, Campillo, Acosta, Logan, Marek= $11.5 Total $56.5. Peavy $11, Burnett $15, Furcal $11, Burrell(Just an Example) $10 Total Payroll $103.5 Mill and some many might could be deferred to get to $100 Mil. Frank Wren said Smoltz and Glavine would just be extra. It can work!
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
December 7, 2008 7:55 PM | Link to this
I reread the 1995 SI cover of Maddux titled: The Greatest Pitcher You’ll Ever See…still love to read that article and any others I can find about Mad Dog.
By Joe M.
December 7, 2008 8:00 PM | Link to this
MLB.com has a report stating the Braves are interested in Garland and O. Perez
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!
By ncscoots
December 7, 2008 8:10 PM | Link to this
Smart Money says Kelly Johnson goes to Arizona,and Conor Jackson comes to the Braves
That kind of “smart money” is the reason bookies drive Bimmers and bettors ride the bus.
By spolarbear72
December 7, 2008 8:12 PM | Link to this
DOB any chance the braves would look at Milton Bradley?????
By 18 Wheels of Love
December 7, 2008 8:12 PM | Link to this
This is a repost from a bit up the blog…tell me if I am crazy.
Tom Verducci on Maddux
Some of his tricks, of course, he did not share. I learned only this year, for instance, about one trick he used on the mound that just blew me away, a real giveaway to his genius that no one else could possibly think of. I hope someday he lets me share it with you.
I think I know what it is….every time Maddux would pitch I always noticed his hat would end up crooked, kind of like how CC Sabbathia wears his hat, except Maddux would mostly wear his hat normal, but then all of a sudden at the strangest times during AB’s he would turn his hat ever so slightly, just enough to make you focus on it and not the AB. To this day I swear he did it on purpose and that it was part of his plan of distraction with hitters. I wish there was a way to confirm this. DOB, call him out on if you get a chance.
By Efrim
December 7, 2008 8:18 PM | Link to this
Joe M. and JasoninFL
I think MLB.com is sticking names in front of players. I’m not sure I have ever heard the Braves being interested in Garland or Perez. I wouldn’t of minded Perez, before we traded for Vasquez, but signing either Perez doesn’t make any sense at this point. Garland is awful.
By Kyle
December 7, 2008 8:20 PM | Link to this
Any chance that Maddux wouldn’t go into the hall as a Brave?
By Wayne in Utah
December 7, 2008 8:23 PM | Link to this
DOB Sounds like the cabbie in Vegas might be one of my relatives…
By The Real Joebrave
December 7, 2008 8:27 PM | Link to this
NCscoots, you got anything better,or should i say bettor??????????
By tlj
December 7, 2008 8:30 PM | Link to this
Joe M.,
I saw the MLB site and it appears they listed all teams listed in particular players. It shows Atlanta still interested in Peavy as well.
I read an article earlier today (Fox or ESPN) and it stated AJ was going to wait until CC signed. If CC does not sign with the Yankees then they would turn thier attention to him and he would of course get more money.
Like most braves fans the waiting is making me nervous. I would like to sign AJ, then get our outfielder and start making plans for next season.
Although this isn’r likely to happen I would like to see Wren meet with Towers and discuss Peavy. He could make the same offer as before but Towers would have to respond within a short period of time to allow Wren to sign Furcal.
This would also put a little pressure on AJ because if we got Peavy and CC signed with NY, AJ might not get the deal he wants. We could get which ever one got back to us first. OR we could get both, yeah I know the funds aren’t there but it would be great.
Let’s see we have $ 40 to $ 45 to work with, Vasguez and Ross cost us $ 13 leaving $ 27 to $ 32. AJ would probably cost $ 15 and Peavy $ 11. Yep there would not enough money to sign Furcal and then get our left fielder.
Okay I’m back to reality, let’s hope AJ signs soon. This is going to be an fun week.
Go Braves
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
December 7, 2008 8:30 PM | Link to this
Efrim, that’s what I wrote…that if they had any interest, it was most likely before the Vazquez trade.
By ncscoots
December 7, 2008 8:36 PM | Link to this
Nope, Joe, that’s all I got. But I’ll book all the Kelly-for-Conor money you want, at a buck-forty against, LOL.
By ncscoots
December 7, 2008 8:52 PM | Link to this
He [Wren] could make the same offer as before but Towers would have to respond within a short period of time to allow Wren to sign Furcal.
No. No, no, and no. Towers has to hurt a little more now than earlier in the process, because that’s the price you pay for trying to squeeze the turnip. Offering the original package after once pulling out of the talks would show incredible weakness by the Braves, and would likely just lead to Towers trying to up the ante some more.
If the team misses on Burnett, then Wren must decide if bending a knee for Peavy is worth it. But, until then, the Braves should not even consider re-offering the same terms as the original offer.
By GTgirl
December 7, 2008 8:53 PM | Link to this
According to mlbtraderumores.com Dye could have been been traded to the Reds for Homer Bailey (none others mentioned)and will be announced later this week.
By The Real Joebrave
December 7, 2008 8:54 PM | Link to this
Scoots, just funnin ya there, but I do think K.J. is Gone!!!
By nolie
December 7, 2008 8:54 PM | Link to this
Frank Wren said Smoltz and Glavine would just be extra. It can work! ccrider
Ok, but just don’t hold your breath…unless you look particularly good in blue
By Greg in TN
December 7, 2008 9:10 PM | Link to this
Evening lads and lasses…
Busy day tomorrow in the baseball world as the hot stove will be stoked to its limits, and many will be watching as Scott Bora$ walks out early tomorrow morning to the assembled masses. Word has it that if Bora$ sees the shadow of a C-note we’ll have six more weeks of escalating salaries.
Meanwhile, Frank Wren will work GMs near and far in an effort to land an exceptional pitcher and a power bat for the outfield. Have to agree with the assertion by Coach and by the Crusading Everyman that we may not find an outfielder until ST. Plenty of time there in my mind.
AJ Burnett will wait and see just what CC Sabathia will land, and things might get a little crazy if Sabathia signs with a team not opening a new stadium next year at 161st Street. Fort Knox the Bronx could very well attempt to blow everyone else out of the water with an offer to Burnett should CC go elsewhere. Should CC sign with the lads of the pinstripes, our odds of signing AJ gets much better IMO.
The Hall will announce the results of the Veterans Committee voting tomorrow. Of the ten, I believe Torre, Kaat, Santo and Tiant are the most deserving. I like Joe’s chances, however since the voting changed after last year’s shutout, who knows how those changes will affect this year’s vote. The voting is limited this year exclusively to all living members of the Hall (as opposed to including the living Ford Frick and JG Taylor Spink Award winners in past years).
By Klstreet
December 7, 2008 9:11 PM | Link to this
*DOB,
If Smoltz or Glavine comes back from surgery, who do you believe would be sent back to the minors? This is assuming that Hanson, Morton, and Reyes are pitchers fighting for that roster spot?
By ncscoots
December 7, 2008 9:12 PM | Link to this
No prob, Joe, I knew it, LOL. I’ve seen your humor before, remember? And, heck, I personally thought Kelly would be gone for pitching by now, myself. No fits, I guess, and I’m certainly not unhappy about it.
Trading him for offense, though, I can’t see it. Such a trade is unlikely to improve the team enough to justify it.
By AdirondackDave
December 7, 2008 9:17 PM | Link to this
NCSCOOTS — I think you are right on regarding Towers needing to suffer a bit on any return engagement. I’d love to reel in Peavy but I’d like to see Frank pull Escobar and offer Reyes, a guy from the bullpen, lil Bridge, and maybe 2-3 lower level “prospects” that are of modest consequence.
Basically, let Towers save face back home with “numbers” but pulling back Escobar lets the guy know in spades that he needs get his act together. I’d also put a one or two day time limit on the offer because AJ is pending for us if Towers hems and haws. Does that make any sense?
By Efrim
December 7, 2008 9:19 PM | Link to this
ncscoots
If the team misses on Burnett, then Wren must decide if bending a knee for Peavy is worth it. But, until then, the Braves should not even consider re-offering the same terms as the original offer.
Let’s hope it doesn’t come to that. I like the idea of signing Burnett and keeping Esco.
By nolie
December 7, 2008 10:05 PM | Link to this
LOL. C’mon guys. if he misses on Burnett (I’m guessing he does) and goes back to Towers it will be to get the pitching he needs, not to punish Towers. He ain’t likely to put the screws to him if he wants Peavy. And if he misses on AJ then Peavy is by far the most desirable option left. He’ll do whatever he was willing to agree on in the first place. ..might even sweeten it a bit if that gets the deal finalized. Any other approach would be cutting his nose off to spite his face.
By chris
December 7, 2008 10:09 PM | Link to this
If the Red Sox sign Teixiera, do you think they trade Jason Bay or maybe make Bay available?
By David O'Brien
December 7, 2008 10:11 PM | Link to this
spolarbear: yes, I think there’s chance Braves would consider Bradley.
By brian
December 7, 2008 10:14 PM | Link to this
Towers will meet with Wren this week and anyone else he thinks will be a possible match.
Towers must know that if the Braves sign AJ Burnett then they are out of the Peavy sweepstakes leaving him with only the Cubs and no leverage. He needs to trade Peavy before the dominoes fall with the free agent pitchers.
By AdirondackDave
December 7, 2008 10:14 PM | Link to this
nolie, I agree that’s probably what Wren would do if he misses out on AJ. I just don’t think that’s necessarily what he should do.
By Efrim
December 7, 2008 10:20 PM | Link to this
Tex holds all the cards, or at least Boras does. If Sabathia really wants to pitch on the West Coast, he’ll wait to see if the Angels nab Tex. Of course, I can’t see all the top free agents waiting until Christmas to sign(which is when I think Tex will finally decide, sometime between Christmas and the New Year). So that is why you might see Burnett sign first, before C.C. Can’t imagine him waiting that long.
By Salty Dawg
December 7, 2008 10:21 PM | Link to this
Has anyone heard whether the Yankees offer for CC is fixed or if it is more of an opening offer? I’m curious if they are willing to go higher than the initial offer. If not, it doesn’t make much sense to start so high. They can certainly afford to pay him more if they really want him, so I wonder if they would come back over the top if word got out that he was considering a lesser offer. As much as I dislike the Yankees, I really hope they sign CC because if they set their sights on AJ we are screwed on that front.
By chris
December 7, 2008 10:22 PM | Link to this
TheBraveShow.com says DBacks are interested in Kelly Johnson. Do they ask for Conor Jackson?
By Efrim
December 7, 2008 10:23 PM | Link to this
yes, I think there’s chance Braves would consider Bradley.
I wonder what he would cost. Tough to evaluate what he should cost a team. Rarely healthy, but is exactly the type of hitter the Braves could use. Too bad about his baggage. Although people liked him in Texas, no?
By AdirondackDave
December 7, 2008 10:29 PM | Link to this
Chris — If the Red Sox sign Tex I doubt that means they’d trade Bay. Maybe, I suppose, if Bay could get them a young starter stud like Greinke or Cain, but otherwise they are really sitting in the catbird seat with Tex. What a lineup with Pedroia, Ortiz, Yuk, Tex, Bay, and Drew in the middle of the lineup and i’m forgetting some other fine hitters they have at the moment too. Add the strong pitching they have and they are the class of the American League and probably MLB for that matter.
By J.L.
December 7, 2008 10:39 PM | Link to this
I don’t think A.J. will sign with the Braves, but if he does we will be sorry.Think about it,the Yanks and all there money are going after C.C. when they heard of the Braves offer,the NY papers reported they were going after Lowe also.Now with Aj’s tude and work history this is not a good gamble.
By Duke
December 7, 2008 10:41 PM | Link to this
DOB, seems as if Houston is willing to part with Oswalt and Lee. Wouldn’t that be a perfect trade situation for us? Or do we not want to trade that many prospects. Assuming it would take a good deal of players to pull that off. Of course if AJ signs with us then we could go after Lee alone.
By Mark Texas
December 7, 2008 10:49 PM | Link to this
Still can’t believe Wren let that manchild Flowers get away…
First the New York Football Giants win the SUPERBOWL, now THIS!!!
Bring back Schuerholz and Mazzone = CHAMPIONSHIP!!!
By Hiawatha Terrell Wade
December 7, 2008 11:36 PM | Link to this
I’m assuming that Connor Jackson is a pipe dream, but is there any chance the Braves and Dodgers engage in Yunel Escobar/Matt Kemp trade talks?
By Bobby's Cox
December 7, 2008 11:48 PM | Link to this
There’s been a few reports here today about the braves and some free agents I see.
O.Perez and Garland. These seem like back up plans in case the Braves can’t land Burnett.
I don’t buy the Ibanez one. Ibanez will be too expensive for the braves in that they don’t want to spend that money on LF, and they don’t need another left hander in the lineup. There’s a specific reason the Braves are targeting a right handed bat for LF. Unless Johnson is shipped, I don’t see the Braves targeted a left-handed LF’er.
By Mark
December 7, 2008 11:55 PM | Link to this
Id really like to see Maddox signed to a contract and if he pitches well keep him in there it would be GREAT to see Doggy retire a BRAVE
By fordcobra
December 8, 2008 12:04 AM | Link to this
Hey David, Might sound stupid, but with all these guys turning down arb. is that a sign we should start getting more signing activity? thanks and be careful out there
By Double J
December 8, 2008 12:09 AM | Link to this
I think Oliver Perez would be a great back up plan if no AJ or Peavy. He has the overpowering pitching the braves want, and with some coaching, and the fact he about to hit his prime, I think he would be a good signing…Then again he is represented by Boras.
By i cant take it anymore
December 8, 2008 12:18 AM | Link to this
DAVID…awesome 2:58 post. sounds pretty funky.
By Wilson
December 8, 2008 12:37 AM | Link to this
DOB, do you know if there are any Braves players that will be playing in the WBC?
By nolie
December 8, 2008 12:38 AM | Link to this
nolie, I agree that’s probably what Wren would do if he misses out on AJ. I just don’t think that’s necessarily what he should do A Dave
what he should do will depend on how much he wants Peavy at that time.I’m not saying that he might not offer less if he goes back, just that his tactics should be dictated by his needs and not depend on the previous dealings. To me Lowe looks pretty unattainable, so if AJ ain’t available either, Peavy is the only FA left worth paying what most of them will want. Perez, Garland etc don’t get it IMO. Unless of course he thinks that it is likely that he can swing a trade… Anyway I’m pretty sure the punish Towers posts were facetious. ;-)
By nolie
December 8, 2008 12:42 AM | Link to this
I think Oliver Perez would be a great back up plan if no AJ or Peavy. He has the overpowering pitching the braves want, and with some coaching, and the fact he about to hit his prime, I think he would be a good signing… Double J
I think he is pretty darm inconsistant for anything above a #3 and for the money that I have seen talked about. I’ll pass, unless he is a lot cheaper than I think he might be.
By nolie
December 8, 2008 12:51 AM | Link to this
Baseball Prospectus Unfiltered says
@ A wild rumor making the rounds is that the Rays might replace the Orioles as the third team to facilitate a trade that would send ace starter Jake Peavy from the Padres to the Cubs. Reportedly, the Rays would acquire veteran Brian Giles form the Padres to play right field. However, that seems doubtful, though, as Giles is a native San Diegan and has no desire to waive his no-trade clause. Regardless of how it shakes out, Padres GM Kevin Towers is determined to get five players back in any deal and the Orioles want both center fielder Felix Pie and shortstop Ronny Cedeno from the Cubs in any deal.
By Bubdylan
December 8, 2008 1:05 AM | Link to this
f.n. hale, I think my tone was screwy on that strike-out post I made to you. I felt no funky vibes whatsoever from your post, just wanted to add the other half of my angle. I’m afraid my defacto writing voice is inherently defensive, don’t know what’s up with that.
By nolie
December 8, 2008 1:18 AM | Link to this
I’m afraid my defacto writing voice is inherently defensive, don’t know what’s up with that. buddy
I think a lot of people are especially starting out. You are funny, and though I don’t often agree with some of your ideas, they ain’t your and idiot stupid. Like the old bromide, just picture us all sitting at our keyboards in our undies scratchin’ our armpits and you won’t care how we respond to you. LOL.
By Bubdylan
December 8, 2008 1:18 AM | Link to this
McFann and DOB, thanks for the lately kudos.
By Bubdylan
December 8, 2008 1:26 AM | Link to this
nolie, will do. :)
By Marv Kleeman
December 8, 2008 1:27 AM | Link to this
I still can’t believe Rafael Soriano will be paid 6.1 million dollars in 2009 to be a setup man. That’s 6.1 million friggin’ dollars. The largest contract in baseball for a setup man.
Soriano’s contract is an albatross around the neck of the Atlanta Braves and is the sole reason we can not re sign Will Ohman as well as bring back Jorge Julio.
Ohman will sign a contract for around 4 million per year and does any Braves fan in their right mind think we can afford to spend 10 million dollars on two setup men.
Were it not for the stranglehold Soriano’s contract has on the Braves; we could have signed both Will Ohman and Jorge Julio.
Will Ohman (2 years 8 million ought to do it). That’s 4 million per year for a lefthander who is durable, rubber armed, dependable, great clubhouse guy and loves pitching for the Atlanta Braves.)
Jorge Julio (just signed with the Brewers for $950,000 plus incentives) which is pocket change compared to Soriano’s contract.
Upon his recall from Richmond AAA Jorge Julio was nothing short of sensational and was not scored upon in his final 11 appearances.
Over all Julio struck out 19 batters while allowing one earned run over 12 1/3 innings.
I would even have slated Julio as a candidate to be our eighth inning setup man.
So in summation:
Rafael Soriano 6.1 million OR Will Ohman 4.0 million Jorge Julio 950,000 thousand
You make the call.
By David O'Brien
December 8, 2008 1:47 AM | Link to this
From story I’m doing on Maddux:
After going 20-11 with a 2.18 ERA in 263 innings for the Cubs in 1992, Maddux was 20-10 with a 2.36 ERA in 267 innings for the Braves in 1993, his third season in a row of more than 260 innings pitched.
During strike-shortened 1994-95 seasons, he was 35-8 with a microscopic 1.60 ERA — more than 2-1/2 runs below the league average.
… Maddux’s legendary control was never more apparent than in the next two seasons, when he had fewer walks than starts – 28 walks with 172 strikeouts in 35 starts (245 innings) in 1996; 20 walks with 177 strikeouts in 33 starts (232-2/3 innings) in 1997.
By nolie
December 8, 2008 1:50 AM | Link to this
Ohman will sign a contract for around 4 million per year and does any Braves fan in their right mind think we can afford to spend 10 million dollars on two setup men. Marv
if Moylan and Soriano and Gonzo are healthy, Ohman won’t even be a setup man, he’ll mostly be a LOOGY(even last season he had 80 some appearances and 50 some IP ) which is why it is pretty unlikely that they will resign him IMO.
By BayAreaSteve
December 8, 2008 1:50 AM | Link to this
UGA, one whiskey? What the hell am I supposed to do with one?
Any of the denizens know of a book, or some collection of Maddux stories? The stories I’ve heard are beautiful, and I know there are a ton more out there that I don’t know.
Anybody got the Maddux urinating story…I forget the details. For my selfish entertainment, I suggest everybody post their favorite story (Maddux story, not urinating story).
And, by the way, if you’re going to post your adulation for all things Maddux, spell his freakin’ name right.
Finally, people who correct others’ spellings are a*****, and not to be listened to.
By nfieldr
December 8, 2008 1:56 AM | Link to this
DOB Here’s a link to another interview with Shawn Ryan. It’s lengthy, but a good read. BTW, Sepinwell’s blog is a great TV blog if you’re not familiar with it. His TV tastes are very similar to yours (and mine) or so it seems.
http://sepinwall.blogspot.com/2008/11/shield-shawn-ryan-post-finale-q.html
By Wayne in Utah
December 8, 2008 2:20 AM | Link to this
Dave Hey, you are on the west coast clock technically, but your bod is probably screaming it’s 2 frickin AM!
I have a heckuva time when I travel back east on the first night. I can’t get to bed that first night before 2am, then the next day turns into a long one.
Question: Is the way managers and pitching coaches managing their pitching staffs part of the reason why you just don’t see those similar Maddux type numbers out of starters these days? Who had the most innings this year in the majors, Halladay? I don’t know.
It just seems to me like pitchers these days should be able to go even longer, what with all we know about nutrition and conditioning and such. I don’t want to get into name calling, but it sure seems like we have a lot of wimpy pitchers out there these days. Maybe it’s the club’s fault, for babying them.
Either way, when you go back and look at Maddux record, it is clear he will be a first ballot hall of famer.
Go back even more years, to the days of Bob Gibson, Juan Marichal, Steve Carlton, Don Drysdale, etc. and it is even more pronounced.
On a side note, if I thougtht I could get any real thrill out of the adventure, I would drive the 450 miles down to Sin City this week to try to feel a small part of that big game, but chances are I will learn more and be more intuned just by checking into the blog here.
Here’s to hoping Frank Wren and the team has some successes this week, whether it be in actual signings or trades, or just setting things up for weeks to come.
It is hell being a fan, and having absolutely no control over things. We sit here waiting for the daily blockbuster. I think that’s what ticks me off the most about these Peavy talks. All the posturing. I was a big Kevin Towers fan before all this crap. I suspect he is between a rock and a hard place though.
Thanks Dave for your dedication to us out here in the blogosphere! Much appreciated!
By Bubdylan
December 8, 2008 3:07 AM | Link to this
HIGH ROLLERS: Only four teams have shown they have bucks to spend this winter, recession or no recession: the Braves, Angels, Red Sox and (shocker) Yankees. That makes them dangerous in a market as cautious as this one. -Jayson Stark
By BayAreaSteve
December 8, 2008 5:08 AM | Link to this
F*** everybody here.
I come back from the bar empty-handed, I expect great things.
DOB on west-coast time….and I can’t get a comment…..
Give me a FU Anders or something…
McFann, et al, don’t drink, or smoke anything, or this is what you’ll become.
Save Yunel; spend the money.
By BayAreaSteve
December 8, 2008 5:08 AM | Link to this
F*** everybody here.
I come back from the bar empty-handed, I expect great things.
DOB on west-coast time….and I can’t get a comment…..
Give me a FU Anders or something…
McFann, et al, don’t drink, or smoke anything, or this is what you’ll become.
Save Yunel; spend the money.
By BayAreaSteve
December 8, 2008 5:19 AM | Link to this
A double-post makes one respectable, that’s what I say.
Random, since you catalog everything, would you please time-stamp the moment Anders posted he would not return?
Save Yunel.
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
December 8, 2008 5:28 AM | Link to this
I find this quote from Axlerod about the Cubs to be quite humorous:
“That was one of the teams that was attractive for a variety of reasons,” Peavy’s agent Barry Axelrod said. “They do the things necessary to try to put a winning team out there year after year.”
Really? They have made the playoffs 20% of the time in the last 20 years. Now, they have won the division the last two years and have a huge payroll. But, to say they do what it takes year after year is a little far-fetched. It isn’t like the Cubs are perennial contenders. Now, again, I will say they have obviously been better than the Braves the last couple of years, but let’s not start putting them in the upper echelon of teams that are always competitive.
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
December 8, 2008 5:51 AM | Link to this
Sorry, that was a typo…I meant to type 20% of the time in the last 30 years…it is actually 25% of the time in the last 20.
For the record, the Braves have made it 50% of the time in the last 30 and 77% of the time in the last 20. All percentages include the strike shortened year…not sure why I didn’t exclude, but I have been up since 4:30, went to bed late, and haven’t had nearly enough coffee! (:
Here’s to a successful winter meetings!
By Uri Nate
December 8, 2008 7:34 AM | Link to this
Bay Steve, I remember the time I peed on an electric fence after watching Maddux pitch earlier that day.
By 18 Wheels of Love
December 8, 2008 7:35 AM | Link to this
I am convinced Peavy has informed his agent he will only approve a trade to the Cubs. I mean why would Towers tip his hand so much and publicly say he is only working with Chicago? He has totally lost whatever little leverage he had left after the Braves bailed. I just think the courtship by Mark grace and the other ex-Cubs has paid off in the mind of Peavy. Of course that is total speculation on m part, and I understand Towers is limited anyway in the teams he can talk to, but for a GM that HAS to trade a guy it is curious how he has locked into a single team.
By Bill1956
December 8, 2008 7:59 AM | Link to this
DOB, why aren’t the Braves going after Dye? He is a better fielder than the others being considered and is a right hand bat. Dunn is left and terrible fielder. The Sox are looking for a young arm and we could offer Morton or Reyes.
By Chipper 4 MVP
December 8, 2008 8:03 AM | Link to this
I think we are all going to be in for a surprise this week at the meetings, pitching wise or bat/fielding wise, or both!
By Joe M.
December 8, 2008 8:24 AM | Link to this
Did Towers take a shot at Wren here?
“Guys that you’ve got good relationships with, usually there’s less cat-and-mouse games,” Towers said before leaving San Diego for baseball’s winter meetings. “Certain guys deal differently. Jim Hendry with the Cubs is very open, up-front, has a good feeling for value. Like with (Jake) Peavy, (Hendry’s) not going to embarrass you and say, well, ‘This guy’s not available, this guy’s not available, this guy’s not available.’ It’s more, ‘If I’m going to be in the running for Peavy, everybody’s available.’ ”
By tlj
December 8, 2008 8:36 AM | Link to this
Getting back to the Peavy to Cubs trade. It’s my understanding the Orioles are the most likely trading partner.
The Orioles get Felix Pie and Ronnie Cedeno or a prospect from the Pads. The Pads get Garrett Olson from the Orioles, Marshal, Hart, Vitters, Cedeno or a prospect from the cubs. The Cubs of course get Peavy.
How does this trade help anyone but the Cubs? The orioles already have a pretty decent outfield, Adam Jones is their CF and better than Pie. If they also got Cedeno they would be getting a below average ML SS. It appears he is a utility infielder.
The Pads get a pretty good 3B prospect in Vitters but they already have Headley at 3B. Olson and Marshal are both back of the end starters. Hart at best is probably a middle inning relief pitcher. Cedeno if he goes to SD instead of the Orioles as mentioned is probably a utility infielder.
Wouldn’t the Pads have been better off taking the Braves offer? I agree with 18 wheels of Love, I think it’s out of the Pads hands. I think Peavy is calling the shots. The Pads will take whatever they can get at this point. They just want the salary gone.
Any thoughts?
By McFann O –[zzz]
December 8, 2008 8:51 AM | Link to this
Bubdylan—
You welcome!
BayAreaSteve McFann, et al, don’t drink, or smoke anything…
Don’t worry!
By NCBravesFan
December 8, 2008 9:08 AM | Link to this
JoeM On your 8:24 - sure sounds like it. But he sure comes off as a whiny twerp, doesn’t he?
Hey Kevin, how is stating who is and is not available not being direct exactly?
By McFann O –[zzz]
December 8, 2008 9:08 AM | Link to this
Joe M. Did Towers take a shot at Wren here?
Looks like it.
By Doc Holliday
December 8, 2008 9:08 AM | Link to this
I hope braves dont waste anymore time thinking about Peavy. He wants Chicago, let him have it. Question is…….what if Burnett goes elsewhere? We might end up with Oliver Perez and Vazquez being our Ace…… that scenario is not too good.
Sheets, Sabathia and Lowe have not figured much on Braves discussions (as far as I know). This is why I thought that letting Hampton slip away was a mistake.
By Doc Holliday
December 8, 2008 9:14 AM | Link to this
tlj
I totally agree with you as I posted 3 minutes ago……Peavy wants Chicago and there is nothing anybody can do about it.
So Plan A is down the drain.
Lets hope plan B has a happier ending for us (AJ), but I doubt it.
Suddenly the light at the end of the tunnel is starting to disappear for the Braves.
By McFann O –[zzz]
December 8, 2008 9:19 AM | Link to this
NCBravesFan But he sure comes off as a whiny twerp, doesn’t he?
Sure does.
By DAP
December 8, 2008 9:28 AM | Link to this
bobby’s cox Ibanez will be too expensive for the braves in that they don’t want to spend that money on LF, and they don’t need another left hander in the lineup
how much money do you think it will take to sign ibanez? i keep reading people say on rumor sites that they think ibanez will be out of the braves range…nobody ever says what he is likley to sign for. so, how can we know if he is out of our range?
i dont think he is or will be.
By JC from UT
December 8, 2008 9:28 AM | Link to this
Is there really any chance Arizona gives up Conner Jackson for KJ? Could it be done straight up or would FW have to throw in some pitching? FW could then sign Mark Grundzalanek to play 2ND for 1 year plus an option. Grudz would bring much better defense (obviously) plus can get a bunt down to move a runner along. Any thuoghts?
By Efrim
December 8, 2008 9:31 AM | Link to this
It sounds like Peavy isn’t even an option if we miss out on Burnett. If that were to happen, I’m not sure where the Braves would go. I’d probably offer Ben Sheets a three year deal. High risk, but it is probably a better idea than going after Perez.
By Dadgum
December 8, 2008 9:36 AM | Link to this
Buster Olney reported last night that Jake Peavy is definitely about to be traded and the front runner if not the only runner is the Cubs.
I guess that can change in a minute out in Vegas. Assuming for the sake of this post it is going to happen, Wren needs AJ Burnett to sign on the dotted line. AJ may indeed wait until CC signs but guaranteeing a 5th year now may push AJ to sign.
Can the Braves afford to lose AJ Burnett to the Yankees or anyone else? Who else is out there? The Braves set out to acquire a #1 & #2 starter and a RH power outfielder. To date, and I am giving him the benefit of the doubt here, only a #3 starter in Vazquez.
Wren is of course trying hard and there are no guarantees he accomplishes his goals in the near term. Obviously he did not offer AJ his best offer upfront and is willing to tweak said offer if need be. Frankly I have no idea if AJ is worth a 5-year/15M per contract. No idea at all. The Braves have made worse moves including the Mike Hampton fiasco. I don’t see the big deal in giving a 5-year guarantee vs. a 4-year. Really don’t.
If a 5th year will take him off the table prior to CC inking then that would eliminate a bidding war with the Yankees or whomever. I, of course, am assuming that AJ will sign with the Braves if offered an $80M 5-year package tomorrow. If not then I would wait and pray that the Yankees sign CC.
Rock on……remember. “when you are up to your a$5 in alligators it is difficult to remember that the initial objective was to drain the swamp”.
By Fred
December 8, 2008 9:47 AM | Link to this
Joe. M., This guy Towers is unbelievable! He deserves to be nominated for worst sports executive. He obviously took a shot at Wren with those comments. The guy criticizes certain executive for playing “cat and mouse games,” when Wren was up front from the start stating which Braves players/prospects are available or unavailable. Plus, Towers is the one playing games by asking for additional player(s) to be thrown in the deal, not to mention how long he dragged out the negotiations. What a hypocrite! I feel sorry for Padres fans because that team’s future isn’t bright. Conversely, look at what a great job the Marlins have done getting quality prospects when they had to trade their higher priced players.
By JasonInFL (Formerly ME)
December 8, 2008 9:50 AM | Link to this
Dadgum, I actually agree. If no unexpected ace becomes available over the next day or two, the Braves should guarantee that 5th year to try and get it done. That was basically what I was getting at last night…
By GermanBravesFan
December 8, 2008 10:05 AM | Link to this
How about John Smoltz as the number 2 starter for next year? :-) It sure looks like he might be back after all!!
By DAP
December 8, 2008 10:09 AM | Link to this
Bill1956 dye is just as bad in the field as the others being discussed, from what ive heard. ibanez, dunn, abreu, dye…all pretty bad in the field.
on another note…have we heard a quote from peavy saying he wants chicago, or is this just blog speculation? im wondering if i missed a quote or something. it definitely seems to me that wren and towers had some sort of a spat, probably because wren got tired of towers jerking him around.
By Nate
December 8, 2008 10:10 AM | Link to this
If you actually take a look at Burnett’s stats, its hard get excited about Burnett becoming the Brave’s “Ace.” Unless of course you’re a Mets fan.
By Joe M.
December 8, 2008 10:10 AM | Link to this
Jayson Stark says there is “just about zero chance Peavy is traded at the winter meetings.”
I feel sorry for Cubs’ fans (especially that Cubs’ fan who runs the MLBTradeRumors site and whom post every ‘Cubs getting Peavy’ story while ignoring any ‘Cubs not getting Peavy’ stories). All the stories have them getting Peavy and that “it is so near” and blah, blah, blah. Wait till Kevin Towers jerks them around for a while, demands more and then walks away. Should be quite a let-down for them, maybe Brian Roberts II yet worse.
I’m out for now. These meetings are going to be boring. Burnett is signing till Sabithia and Sabithia is not going to sign during the meetings and Wren is publicly talking about waiting till spring training to acquire a power-hitting bat for left field. So that takes away the major moves. Will the Braves make any? At this point it wouldn’t shock me at all if the meetings produce nothing more than the resigning of Greg Norton for the Atlanta Braves.
By McFann O –[zzz]
December 8, 2008 10:19 AM | Link to this
Our computer hates me. It won’t let me post links anymore.
This could cause major league problems…especially when the season starts.
}: (
By Thundersticks
December 8, 2008 10:23 AM | Link to this
I feel sorry for Cubs’ fans (especially that Cubs’ fan who runs the MLBTradeRumors site and whom post every ‘Cubs getting Peavy’ story while ignoring any ‘Cubs not getting Peavy’ stories). Joe M.
I’ve been reading Tim’s work for a while now and find him to be very objective in his reporting. Yes, he is a Cubs fan, but it really doesn’t show in his writing. In fact, if you’ve bothered to actually read his reports, he has always felt the Braves were the most likely destination for Peavy.
By Lew
December 8, 2008 10:24 AM | Link to this
Towers comment about everyone being available only stresses the fact that he is and always will be poor at assembling a team-especially one that will have some financial restraints.
Wren realizes that his best chance at contending for the next five to ten years is to allow his minor league kids to mature and to plug them into the Braves’ lineup as they become ready. He realizes that any GM who would trade a potential stud arm that is almost ML ready like Tommy Hanson, would be And Idiot of the first degree.
Speaking of low degrees (Scribe, would that you were here to see THAT transition), it was 5 below here last night and will likely not get much above 10 today. Definitely sweater weather. Even the dog needs ear muffs.
By GermanBravesFan
December 8, 2008 10:27 AM | Link to this
DAP - Peavy hasn’t said anything publicly which makes this situation so messed up. I am sure that if he REALLY wanted to be traded to the Braves, he would have spoken up by now. All that was said is that he told some of his buddies that he wanted to be traded to Atlanta. However, as with a lot of other things on blogs, this has been purely speculation…
By Adam
December 8, 2008 10:29 AM | Link to this
Would there be a worth while package the Braves could offer to the Royals for Greinke? I have read that the Royals don’t want to trade Greinke but would listen to offers. I think Greinke would be a guy the Braves should really go after. Signing him might not be as hard as it is being made out. The reason he may be ok with going year to year with the Royals is he wants to play in the NL. He loves to hit and likes NL game better. He’s young and has great stuff. He really knows how to pitch and would be very dominant in the NL.
By THE BEAR
December 8, 2008 10:36 AM | Link to this
CUBS OWNERS FACING POSSIBLE BANKRUPTCY
According to the Chicago Tribune and the Washington Post The Tribune Company, owners of the Chicago Tribune, L.A. Times, Baltimore Sun AND THE CHICAGO CUBS is facing possible bankruptcy.
Will this affect any trading the Cubs may do during the coming weeeks?
By rotty
December 8, 2008 10:38 AM | Link to this
No offense but Onley is not much of a Nostradamus. The guy is on TV ever 2 hrs with a bs update and then fits in more speculation online in between.
SI’s Heyman (more level headed guy) said on Saturday the Cubs Peavy deal is not dead but on life support.
The Tribune company announced today they may have to file for chapter 11 so until they get sold no Peavy deals look likely.
If Peavy does to the Cubs it will be after they are sold and have traded Marques away without taking on any of his salary.
Those two requirements seem to have missed old Buster’s brain cells.
By Carolina Gent
December 8, 2008 10:42 AM | Link to this
OK, I’ve been waiting for a (very) long time to join in the discussions on Braves’ plans for the off season. Granted, it’s Monday morning and I was sick much of the weekend, but I’m very pessimistic about FW’s chances of getting anything of significance done between now and the start of the season. As many others have stated, it’s becoming obvious that we’re not getting Peavy. Not that I blame Wren, ‘cause Towers has been trying to jerk him around and force him to include Hanson. And it seems like Peavy doesn’t really want to come here anyway.
As for AJ, we’ll probably get outbid for him. But maybe that’s not such a bad thing. Time will tell whether the team that lands him has made a wise investment or not. What all of this means, though, is that Bobby Cox will go to spring training looking for someone to emerge as the #1 starter (I’d rather see JJ at #2 and JV at #3 or #4) and be forced to once again piece together a staff unless Smoltz shocks everyone and can come back as a #1. Looks like it’s “wait ‘til 2010” for Braves fans!
By Joe M.
December 8, 2008 10:50 AM | Link to this
In fact, if you’ve bothered to actually read his reports
I’ve been reading that site, off-and-on, for over two years now and I have seen his Cubs’ bias slip through on many occasions.
By Jeff R
December 8, 2008 10:51 AM | Link to this
Others may have read in the San Diego paper last week that Peavy makes his permanent home in San Diego. The reporter made it out that Peavy has mixed feelings about going anywhere. He speculated that the Braves sending Escobar to the Padres would be considered by Peavy as a move that hurt the team’s competitiveness.
Since Peavy isn’t talking, it’s all speculation.
My guess is that Towers and Wren are talking at the winter meetings. Towers will canvass other teams to see if he can land a better deal for his ace. Can’t predict that the Braves will land Peavy, given the screwy management by committee arrangement in San Diego, but I’m not counting them out yet. And Wren would likely have to guarentee a full no-trade clause to Peavy.
By THE BEAR
December 8, 2008 10:53 AM | Link to this
From what I have read the Braves have offered Burnett what is tantamount to a five year deal…i.e. a four year contract with a “fifth year option that will be easy to reach.”
I interpret that to mean that if he pitches a minimum of so many innings the fourth year his fifth year automatically vests. I see that as “easy to reach” but of course I don’t know if that is what the deal calls for. On the other hand if he is injured and doesn’t pitch much that fourth year the Braves are off the hook. Sounds fair to me for both parties.
By Voice from the past
December 8, 2008 10:54 AM | Link to this
It’s pretty clear from all of the comments Kevin Towers has made recently that he fully expected Wren to give him Hanson in any deal for Peavy. He pitty-patted around thinking he’d back Wren into a corner, and when Wren refused, it left Towers with egg on his face. Now, every comment he makes related to the failed trade attempts to place blame on Wren.
To use a baseball analogy, Towers tried to nibble the corners thinking he had Andruw Jones at the plate trying to hit a 5-run homer. Instead, he found Chipper working the count and taking the walk.
The only problem is, Chipper’s still on first and needs to score. Hopefully Wren won’t leave him stranded.
By Steve from OH
December 8, 2008 11:02 AM | Link to this
I’ve been reading that site, off-and-on, for over two years now and I have seen his Cubs’ bias slip through on many occasions.
So what? I get plenty of good info daily from it that’s not Cubs-related. I see the bias a bit too, but it doesn’t bother me that much…
By GermanBravesFan
December 8, 2008 11:08 AM | Link to this
Voice from the Past - I think Frank Wren laid down a bunt (trade for Vazquez) to get Chipper to second. So, he is in scoring position… let’s see if he can get a single to get him in!
By David O'Brien
December 8, 2008 11:12 AM | Link to this
DOB, why aren’t the Braves going after Dye? He is a better fielder than the others being considered and is a right hand batBill1956.
Bill, he was a good fielder. Was. Several years ago, he ceased being a good fielder. And he’s owed about $11 mill next year, has had a lot of nagging injuries, and will probably cost a younger starting pitcher in a trade.
By TommyP
December 8, 2008 11:16 AM | Link to this
There is just no way under any circumstance that the Braves get Milton Bradley.
No way.
By Fred
December 8, 2008 11:17 AM | Link to this
Joe M., Didn’t the Cubs tell Towers that Jeff Samardzija is unavailable? Another example of Towers’ hypocricy.
By Joe M.
December 8, 2008 11:17 AM | Link to this
So what?
So nothing. I never said it was a gigantic deal or anything. No reason for some of y’all to throw a huge hissy fit over my relatively benign comment about that site.
By David O'Brien
December 8, 2008 11:18 AM | Link to this
As for AJ, we’ll probably get outbid for him.Carolina Gent
What indications have you seen to lead you to think that? Because I can tell you that’s not the consensus out here among the many people I talked to around the lobby.
Not saying Braves are a strong favorite or anything, but I didn’t talk to a single person who seemed to give them less than a 50-50 chance.
Yankees are very reluctant to go five years for A.J., though perhaps that changes if CC spurns them. Don’t know. But if they get CC, I think Braves will get A.J.
Had someone close to Red Sox tell me their team doctor probably wouldn’t recommend going beyond the insurable three seasons with A.J., and certainly not five.
By Don't Trade Franceour, Sheesh
December 8, 2008 11:18 AM | Link to this
German Braves Fan -There are no outs, so even a grouder to the right side puts Chipper in scoring position…
By Don't Trade Franceour, Sheesh
December 8, 2008 11:19 AM | Link to this
German Braves Fan -There are no outs, so even a grouder to the right side puts Chipper on third for a sac fly opportunity…
By DAP
December 8, 2008 11:20 AM | Link to this
i read MLB trade rumors alot and didnt even know he was a cubs fan. so, i think he doe pretty good.
By GermanBravesFan
December 8, 2008 11:24 AM | Link to this
DOB: what is the rule for signing a free agent who accepted arbitration? what kind of draft picks does the team get that offered arbitration to the player? And what happens if a team signs two or more players who had been offered arbitration by their former teams? Which team will receive the highest draft pick?
By Bubdylan
December 8, 2008 11:29 AM | Link to this
Kevin Towers really is a friggin’ clown, isn’t he? He ought to seriously consider shutting his mouth. I’m sure Wren has been just as frustrated by this as anyone, but he doesn’t run around making this dumb noise.
I’m starting to think Towers is getting off on seeing himself quoted or something. I guess when your team-building power is stripped away, that’s all you have left, if you don’t care much for your dignity or ethics or that sort of thing.
“…I’m talkin’ about character… I’m talkin’ about… ethics.”
By GermanBravesFan
December 8, 2008 11:30 AM | Link to this
DOB - referring to your post to Carolina Gent: I think this will be the first time I will be pulling for the Yankees to “get their man”…
By Wesley Snipes
December 8, 2008 11:30 AM | Link to this
Hey DOB
When in Vegas…..ALWAYS bet on black!
By Efrim
December 8, 2008 11:32 AM | Link to this
Had someone close to Red Sox tell me their team doctor probably wouldn’t recommend going beyond the insurable three seasons with A.J., and certainly not five.
I probably wouldn’t want to go five with any pitcher, but this is a move the Braves need to make. I bet that Red Sox doctor wouldn’t suggest the Sox picking up Peavy’s fifth year option either. Both guys are injury risks. I think it’s a risk the Braves are willing to take, and I am happy they are willing to do so.
By Steve from OH
December 8, 2008 11:34 AM | Link to this
So nothing
Hey man, it’s all good. No offense meant. Just pointing out that I think the site is pretty darn valuable, even if he is a friggin’ Cubs fan.
By Bubdylan
December 8, 2008 11:35 AM | Link to this
Milton Bradley + Yunel Escobar = May 2009 Retirement for Bobby Cox.
By Lew
December 8, 2008 11:41 AM | Link to this
Cubs fans are to be pitied. They are, after all, Cubs’ fans.
By ncscoots
December 8, 2008 11:46 AM | Link to this
nolie, just to be clear, my post about Towers being “punished” was in response to a post in which the scenario was that Towers returned to initiate talks. Agreed that, if Wren has to return to the scene of the crime, the leverage all sits with Towers. Wren then decides how much robbery he can endure.
Screw that, says I. Miss Burnett, and I’d sign Sheets and hope for the best. I’m with Efrim on that one, I think.
By Efrim
December 8, 2008 11:46 AM | Link to this
Milton Bradley + Yunel Escobar = May 2009 Retirement for Bobby Cox.
Not if the Braves have a 5 game division lead by the end of May.
By Andy
December 8, 2008 11:56 AM | Link to this
The Braves need a true leadoff hitter who can cause havoc at the top and steal some bases. The Braves have never been the same since Furcal left. We also lack that true right handed power hitter to play left, as Wren and DOB have alluded to. If we pick up AJ our pitching will be set ‘09. I think we can plug Schafer in at center. Hopefully, Frenchy has a good season next year.
I remember playoff games in which the Braves pitched really well, but couldn’t put a run across the plate. In the latter years we made the playoffs, we scored some runs, but we couldn’t close games out. It’s always been a different issue for us.
The phillies had a really balanced lineup and solid pitching and a shut down-closer. They had the best all-around team, obviously.
The Braves need that leadoff guy, cleanup hitter, and one more ACE. That’s still a lot to ask.
I wish Wren much luck.
By Nevin
December 8, 2008 11:56 AM | Link to this
Milton Bradley should be the bat we’re targetting, something like 2 years with an option vesting at 950 plate appearances, easily achievable if he stays healthy, and a fair buyout of that 3rd year, in case he’s not. He’s only 30, great bat, great OBP, great defense. I know he doesn’t seem the sort of personality Bobby’d prefer, but he’s too perfect for us on the field, many sportswriters (notably the Great Gammons) regulary touch on his being unfairly characterized, and if we could do a couple of years of Sheffield, we should be able to handle a couple of years of Games Bradley, too. There’s not a more perfect fit out there.
By Nevin
December 8, 2008 11:56 AM | Link to this
Milton Bradley should be the bat we’re targetting, something like 2 years with an option vesting at 950 plate appearances, easily achievable if he stays healthy, and a fair buyout of that 3rd year, in case he’s not. He’s only 30, great bat, great OBP, great defense. I know he doesn’t seem the sort of personality Bobby’d prefer, but he’s too perfect for us on the field, many sportswriters (notably the Great Gammons) regulary touch on his being unfairly characterized, and if we could do a couple of years of Sheffield, we should be able to handle a couple of years of Games Bradley, too. There’s not a more perfect fit out there.
By AJ Wears Nipple Rings
December 8, 2008 11:57 AM | Link to this
Just out of curiosity, IF the Chicago Cubs were any other entity would they still be in existence? It is mind boggling that an entity can continue to function after failing at what they do for 100 years. I guess the harder thing to understand is WHY people have any interest in attending the games of or buying the merchandise of a team that has won 1 less World Championship than the Arizona Diamondbacks in the last 100 years. As far as AJ, it should not be a question of “5 Years” but rather a team willing to commit to “5 months” to the nipple ring wearing, momma’s boy, injury waiting to happen, never won a meaningful game, salary driving PUNK out of Oklahoma. MLB you gotta love it.
By Efrim
December 8, 2008 11:58 AM | Link to this
ncscoots
Screw that, says I. Miss Burnett, and I’d sign Sheets and hope for the best. I’m with Efrim on that one, I think.
Yes. I don’t care how injury prone Ben Sheets is. Like I said all along, Towers has leverage. Always has. He is focusing on the Cubs now, and if the Braves miss out on Burnett, he is hoping they come crawling back. Screw that indeed. Go sign Sheets, keep Yunel and the prospects.
By GermanBravesFan
December 8, 2008 12:03 PM | Link to this
If Towers was so set on getting Hanson, he should have just shut down negotiations when he found out that Hanson was unavailable. Why did he keep asking for more only to turn down everything the Braves had offered?
Now he is trying to make it sound like it’s the Braves fault that the trade didn’t get done. What a joke…
By TennesseePaul
December 8, 2008 12:06 PM | Link to this
say, well, ‘This guy’s not available, this guy’s not available, this guy’s not available.’ It’s more, ‘If I’m going to be in the running for Peavy, everybody’s available.’”
LMAO! That is funny stuff. Towers is sounding like a kid stamping his feet. I’m sure the Cubs are saying everything is available. They’re probably offering Zambrano, Aramis Ramirez, and Soriano along with all the money to pay their salaries. They’re such open generous people and he’s such an easy GM to talk to.
What’s that? Not everyone is available? There’s a need for a third team to make a deal work? I thought the Cubs were only in it because that was the only team Peavy would go to? Or was it the Angels? Or the Yankees? The Dodgers? Certainly not the Braves with that insulting offer of Yunel (ML Shortstop), Blaine Boyer (ML reliever), Gorkys (Highly rated Prospect) and either JoJo or Morton (ML experienced Starting Pitchers).
In the words of The Jesus: Laughable!
By David O'Brien
December 8, 2008 12:07 PM | Link to this
I guess the harder thing to understand is WHY people have any interest in attending the games of or buying the merchandise of a team that has won 1 less World Championship than the Arizona Diamondbacks in the last 100 years.AJ Wears…
You obviously have not attended a mid-summer game at Wrigley Field. Am I right?
By SCUBA STEVE
December 8, 2008 12:13 PM | Link to this
DOB, do you agree with Furman Bisher on his story about the Braves not developing their farm system well enough?
By SCUBA STEVE
December 8, 2008 12:13 PM | Link to this
DOB, do you agree with Furman Bisher on his story about the Braves not developing their farm system well enough?
By Joe M.
December 8, 2008 12:13 PM | Link to this
Jim Hendry with the Cubs is very open, up-front, has a good feeling for value. Like with (Jake) Peavy, (Hendry’s) not going to embarrass you and say, well, ‘This guy’s not available, this guy’s not available, this guy’s not available.’ It’s more, ‘If I’m going to be in the running for Peavy, everybody’s available.’ ”
I think this is highly unfair of Towers. If the Cubs’ minor league system had a Hanson or a Heyward, they’d probably act the same way (in fact, the Cubs are with Samardzija.) Their minor league system’s best player is a 19 year old third baseman named Josh Vitters. If the Braves’ minor league system was that desolate, I’d be in favor or the Braves opening it all up and making everyone available for the Padres for Peavy too.
By brent a.
December 8, 2008 12:17 PM | Link to this
Had someone close to Red Sox tell me their team doctor probably wouldn’t recommend going beyond the insurable three seasons with A.J., and certainly not five. DOB
Kind of puts a damper on the whole thing.
But, we do need strong pitching, and those are the risks that seemingly, must be taken.
By DAP
December 8, 2008 12:19 PM | Link to this
nevin There’s not a more perfect fit out there.[bradley]
on the field…when he is on the field and not hurt, i agree with you. it seems like there are three options for the braves this year. be safe, dont take and gambles on players and finish 3rd. be risky, take some gambles on some players and still finish third (because you lose the gambles). or be risky, take some gambles on some players, and win something (because the gambles worked out)
i think wren needs to go with #3, and try to do it in such a way that the gambles dont mess us up for years to come.
thats why short deals to bradley, (who might just play 130 games because he will get hurt or go crazy) might be a good risk to take as a bridge to our great outfield talent.
or signing sheets might be worth it, or oliver perez. i wouldnt blame wren for going 5 years to burnett, but i will hope that the deal wont break this team in the future.
what the difference between bradley and juan rivera, which weve talked about resorting to…? bradley is better, and might have an attitude problem. at this point, id take the risk on bradley, because he wont be terribly expensive.
By DCbrave
December 8, 2008 12:25 PM | Link to this
yes, I think there’s chance Braves would consider Bradley - DOB
Milton Bradley + Yunel Escobar = May 2009 Retirement for Bobby Cox -Bubdylan
Having seen the ever businesslikeness of the Braves for years, it would be fun to see some of the Milton and the Escobar. Maybe that’s exactly what the Braves need as a dose of ‘roid, and maybe Milton + Escobar = post season. Who knows?!
By RC
December 8, 2008 12:29 PM | Link to this
Sounds like Dye is no longer an option….reports are coming out saying that Dye has been traded to the Reds for Homer Bailey.
By jjp
December 8, 2008 12:30 PM | Link to this
DOB,This is my first time commenting on the blog. Would like to compliment you interacting as much as you do. I realize you have other responsibilities as well. It seems as though we have a lot of folks who are taking the negotiations a little too personal. If Frank does the same, then you can almost be assured that we will lose out. It appears that he is handling it correctly by not making anyone mad, and not letting them hold him hostage as well. We have enough to put a deal together with Towers, I just believe that he was just asking for the world because he knew there would be other suitors as well. And as long as we still have dialogue, we could still reengage in negotiating again. As long as Towers is not too proud.
By jjp
December 8, 2008 12:30 PM | Link to this
DOB,This is my first time commenting on the blog. Would like to compliment you interacting as much as you do. I realize you have other responsibilities as well. It seems as though we have a lot of folks who are taking the negotiations a little too personal. If Frank does the same, then you can almost be assured that we will lose out. It appears that he is handling it correctly by not making anyone mad, and not letting them hold him hostage as well. We have enough to put a deal together with Towers, I just believe that he was just asking for the world because he knew there would be other suitors as well. And as long as we still have dialogue, we could still reengage in negotiating again. As long as Towers is not too proud.
By David O'Brien
December 8, 2008 12:37 PM | Link to this
RC, a Chicago writer told me last night that report wasn’t accurate. Unless something’s changed since late last night.
By Leah M.
December 8, 2008 12:38 PM | Link to this
RC - That was debunked last night soon after it surfaced onto the net.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/12/reds-trade-bail.html
By Anders
December 8, 2008 12:39 PM | Link to this
RC
Sounds like Dye is no longer an option….reports are coming out saying that Dye has been traded to the Reds for Homer Bailey.
I’m gonna take a guess that RC doesn’t stand for “Really Current”?
By AJ Wears Nipple Rings
December 8, 2008 12:39 PM | Link to this
DOB, I lived in Chicago for 2 years. Have attended games at Wrigley BECAUSE I like baseball, however would have enjoyed the baseball much more if a team that had won something in last 100 years would have been the home team. People would show up at Wrigley if they staged the Westminster Dog Show there 81 times a year. I believe you answered your question—It’s ALL about Wrigley. My question was about the entity that performs at Wrigley. By the way, You know Alicia Jean will BREAK DOWN?? Ask your buddies out there. I would descibe the scruffy one as a train wreck, but that would be an insult to train wrecks.
By Adam
December 8, 2008 12:42 PM | Link to this
I think Bradley would be a great fit for the Braves. I’m sure he would fall in line just as Sheffield did during his time here. Guy can hit and play LF.
By DAP
December 8, 2008 12:47 PM | Link to this
MLBTR makes it wound like the ‘stros may need to trade someone…tejada or wigginton. wigginton would be a pretty good peice for the braves. i think he could bat cleanup if we needed him to, has a good OBP and a very good slg%, and can play all the corners.
By N8
December 8, 2008 12:49 PM | Link to this
Kevin Towers kills me. The dude speaks nonsense at every turn.
For those thinking that the Cubs filing for bankruptcy or being in the process of being sold, having anything to do with holding up a potential Peavy deal, I doubt that it will have any bearing on the situation.
Maybe the bankruptcy will, but the sale?
I seriously doubt that anybody that is going to fork over the coin that it’s gonna cost to buy the Cubs is gonna pizz and moan about shelling out an extra 15 or so million per year for one of the better pitchers in the NL. In fact, it might actually UP the value, if you ask me.
Not sure how the government and courts would frown upon a team (business) making a huge purchase (which is what acquiring Peavy would be, if the equal salary doesn’t go the other way), and THEN filing for bankrptcy.
Kind of like the dude that goes on a credit card shopping spree for a new TV and furnature and then files the following week.
Not much they can do about it, I guess, but it wouldn’t look good, none the less.
By Anders
December 8, 2008 12:50 PM | Link to this
RC
Apparently I should where the “Not Really Current” moniker. My apologies RC.
By NCBravesFan
December 8, 2008 12:50 PM | Link to this
I fully understand the Red Sox position on AJ. They’re in a fundamentally strong position relative to the Braves, PLUS they have Josh Beckett in the fold.
Also, the Cubs may well have been easier to deal with in negotiations for Peavy, but so what? They’re trying to win now. The Braves are trying to contend in 2009 while holding on to the key pieces of the farm they feel will help them break through.
If you’re Wren, 2009 is expendable when weighed against the prospects that will start making a real impact in 2010 and beyond.
By Steve from OH
December 8, 2008 12:56 PM | Link to this
ScubaSteve, while Bisher is (was) a prolific writer, he couldn’t be wrong about the state of the Braves’ farm system. As for developing the system? Our ‘07 draft was pretty darn good, especially after getting late-round steals in Jacob Thompson and JJ Hoover. Keith Law is on record (in one of his chats) saying Atlanta’s system is borderline top-5, definite top 10 even after the Tex trade. Baseball America ranked them eigth in overall talent ranking (from ML to GCL) at the start of the season, and I think our good draft will maybe help that. That was after the Tex trade, too.
By BravesFanInRockies
December 8, 2008 1:09 PM | Link to this
N8 (12:49)
Good point. The government probably would frown on the Cubs making any sort of big salary acquisitions if the owner is about to enter Chapter 11.
The market for Peavy may again be one team — the Braves. Unless Towers thinks dealing with Atlanta now amounts to humiliation and he either keeps Peavy (and surrounds him with 24 guys essentially making the minimum) or dumps him for a much lesser package than the Braves can offer.
Of course, if Towers can’t get a good deal for Peavy and wants to wait until the deadline to trade him, then Brian Giles (one of my favorite targets for an OF bat) may again be on the block!
By Mental Health Advocate
December 8, 2008 1:13 PM | Link to this
Obsession is bad for your mental health. I’m trying to decide if the obsession on this board with Towers is comparable or greater than the obsession with Meyer and Tebow on the Georgia board?? Either way it involves an obsession with people whose actions you have no ability to control or neutralize. Don’t let them own you. It will set you free so you will be able to continue normal daily activities. Hope Florida wins this thing. At that point he probably moves on with his two Titles as did Horford, Noah and Brewer. If he loses, he will just returm again and you know what that means. Do you realize since 1980 EVEN BYU, Colorado and Tech have at least shared National Titles? This is getting pretty shameful. Over a quarter of a century. Wow! Just Wow!! BYU????? Colorado?? What’s next Utah and Boise before the Dogs?
By Bobby's Cox
December 8, 2008 1:15 PM | Link to this
DOB
Those Maddux stats you shared with us from your story are ridiculous.
Every time I look at that guys stats from the 90’s i can’t believe my eyes.
What got me this time was the innings pitched. Who pitches 260 innings these days? 220 is a lot and most guys arms fall off shortly thereafter.
Can’t wait to read the article.
By David O'Brien
December 8, 2008 1:17 PM | Link to this
Torre didn’t even come close to getting in on the veterans committee from the post-World War II era. No one got voted in by that committee, which, frankly, is becoming a joke (the committee, that is. Process needs to be restructured, and probably will soon.)
By Bobby's Cox
December 8, 2008 1:17 PM | Link to this
One more thing.
I’d love to sit at a poker table with Mad Dog. That would be interesting.
By repo man
December 8, 2008 1:19 PM | Link to this
DC BRAVE I agree with Milton and Esco..damn the Braves need some excitement to wake the dead. Go for it.
By David O'Brien
December 8, 2008 1:23 PM | Link to this
And just one elected from the pre-1942 era, Joe Gordon.
By crap-wheelie
December 8, 2008 1:32 PM | Link to this
DOB:
Since much of the winter meetings take place behind closed doors, how do you cover it? Is it a matter of getting participants to talk to you about what was said? Or do the participants come out and give statements to the press? Thanks for the great blog.
By Bobby's Cox
December 8, 2008 1:36 PM | Link to this
JC from UT
I like your Conner Jackson for KJ proposal cause it fills the needs of both teams. Might make more sense than the Nelson Cruz thing I’m high on.
The Braves may or may not have to throw in more players, but it seems it could get done if both teams were interested. Arizona may or may not want to give up Jackson, just like Texas may not want to give up Cruz. But if Wren makes inquiries to those 2 teams to at least find out, then good for him.
By RC
December 8, 2008 1:47 PM | Link to this
Sounds like Dye is no longer an option….reports are coming out saying that Dye has been traded to the Reds for Homer Bailey.
By Efrim
December 8, 2008 1:47 PM | Link to this
ESPN has a winter meetings blog. Here is what Steve Phillips had to say:
The Braves are anxious to get the A.J. Burnett deal resolved. In addition to adding a starter, they’re also in the market for a left fielder. They’ve identified free agent Raul Ibanez as the best fit because he hits for power and plays solid defense. Pat Burrell and Bobby Abreu, who are also free agents, don’t interest the Braves as much because their defense is suspect.
Unfortunately, Raul Ibanez isn’t a very good fielder. That is the problem with all of the free agent options for left field, none of them are good defenders.
By Braveheart
December 8, 2008 1:57 PM | Link to this
Steve Phillips believes Ibanez is a good fielder? What a friggin’ retard. Go sexually harrass another secretary Steve, talent evaluation just ain’t your thang.
By JC from UT
December 8, 2008 1:58 PM | Link to this
BOBBY’S COX: What are you giving Texas for Nelson Cruz?
DOB: Do you think FW has any interest in Ty Wiggington? If so what does he give up?Also if the Yankees sign Tex is there a possiblility that Xavier Nady becomes available being as though the Yankees have a glut of corner outfielders and DH types
By Braveheart
December 8, 2008 1:59 PM | Link to this
Kind of like the dude that goes on a credit card shopping spree for a new TV and furnature and then files the following week.
Or like Mike Vick wasting millions in the three months before he got sent off before claiming he was broke to everyone he owed money to.
By David O'Brien
December 8, 2008 2:04 PM | Link to this
They’re announcing the Laird-to-Detroit trade, for two minor leaguers. The road gets a little clearer for Salty…
By Bobby's Cox
December 8, 2008 2:05 PM | Link to this
Kind of like the dude that goes on a credit card shopping spree for a new TV and furnature and then files the following week. N8
Beautiful analogy.
Could also be like all the people that mortgaged the equity in their homes to buy Hummers, granite countertops, and 60” flat screen plasmas who filed BK and are now short-selling or walked away from their property altogether.
The Cubs truly would be America’s team wouldn’t they? Even more so I guess if the tax payers were mortgaging the transactions through a BK situation.
Just give Cuban the team and be done with it.
By David O'Brien
December 8, 2008 2:10 PM | Link to this
Will write a new blog up after the Maddux 11:30 press conference.
Ibanez isn’t a bad defensive player — Phillips is right about that. At least not compared to the other available guys. And Braves have been interested in him all winter, but he might even up commanding a contract for more years and dollars than they’re comfortable with.
By Bobby's Cox
December 8, 2008 2:11 PM | Link to this
JC
They want and need pitching and would need an OF replacement for Cruz, so I’d give them B. Jones and a choice of 2 (Locke, Redmond, Parr, Heath, Bennett, Campillo, James, etc…)
By ncscoots
December 8, 2008 2:16 PM | Link to this
Fellas, it’s one thing to want Kelly gone, but at least propose trading him for an upgrade, LOL. Conor Jackson is Kelly right-handed, from an offensive standpoint. Fewer Ks, but everything else is a veritable wash. Trouble is, one’s a middle IF and one’s a corner OF. Oops. Might as well move KJ to left, as to make that trade, and Wren has already kiboshed that idea.
By N8
December 8, 2008 2:25 PM | Link to this
Bobby’s Cox
“Just give Cuban the team and be done with it.”
Wasn’t gonna happen before, and it CERTAINLY isn’t gonna happen, now that he’s been charged with insider trading.
After all, Selig wouldn’t want a black eye for baseball on his watch. LOL!
By David O'Brien
December 8, 2008 2:25 PM | Link to this
About to start Maddux press conference, and it’s unbelievable how many GMs and other front-office officials from dozens of teams are making their way into the media workroom to see this. Towers just walked past, by the way.
Maddux is on stage with his family, including hsi siblings (Mike is up there) and his kids and wife.
Boras is introducing him now, acting as the master of ceremonies.
By Fred
December 8, 2008 2:26 PM | Link to this
Several bloggers have suggested the Braves acquire Ty Wiggington to play LF. Did any of you watch the Braves/Astros games late last season with Wiggington out in left? His defense was absolutely horrible. I can’t imagine the Braves are interested in a guy that defensively challenged.
By Keeper
December 8, 2008 2:35 PM | Link to this
DOB, I thought you’d be interested in these Towers comments from an article in today’s San Diego paper:
“Guys that you’ve got good relationships with, usually there’s less cat-and-mouse games … Certain guys deal differently. Jim Hendry with the Cubs is very open, up-front, has a good feeling for value. Like with (Jake) Peavy, (Hendry’s) not going to embarrass you and say, well, ‘This guy’s not available, this guy’s not available, this guy’s not available.’ It’s more, ‘If I’m going to be in the running for Peavy, everybody’s available.’ ”
Sounds like a rather thinly veiled slap at Wren. Poor Kevin feels embarassed - cue the violins! Nevermind that everyone’s available at the Cubs because their farm stock blows by comparison.
And then this toward the end of the article:
Aiming too high means your phone call may not get returned. Playing a bluff can backfire. Towers liked the straightforward style of former Atlanta Braves GM John Schuerholz, whose opening offer and bottom line were virtually identical.
“You knew exactly what he wanted from the first phone call, and his position never changed,” Towers said. “It was, ‘If you want to do it, we’ll do it. If not, it’s not going to change.’ So you knew where you stood with him.”
Aside from being another slap at Wren (who’s clearly not as good as his predecessor in Towers’ view), this smacks of BS. How is “it’s not going to change” materially different from “This guy’s not available”?
Suggests to me that Towers thought Wren was more pliable (gullible) than Schuerholz, and it ticked him off when he found out otherwise. And/or they have personality issues. If Towers comes out holding a bag of sh— from the Cubs because of ego and/or personality, well, he’ll get exactly what he deserves.
[http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/sullivan/20081208-9999-1s8sullivan.html]
By Hiawatha Terrell Wade
December 8, 2008 2:39 PM | Link to this
Sad day for the game. Thanks for helping a young immigrant kid fall in love with baseball, Mad Dog.
By Efrim
December 8, 2008 2:43 PM | Link to this
DOB
Ibanez isn’t a bad defensive player — Phillips is right about that.
I’m not a scout, so I guess my opinion means nothing, but in researching defensive metrics, it seems like Ibanez is in fact a pretty bad defender:
http://www.fieldingbible.com/
Since 2006, it seems like Pat Burrell, Adam Dunn and Manny Ramirez have been the only players with worse left field defense.
And Keith Law had this to say about Ibanez in his free agent evaluations:
Ibanez has managed to hold his level of performances deep into his 30s, something very unusual for an unathletic player who doesn’t offer any defensive value. Still, his 2008 performance got an artificial boost from a sudden spike in his performance against left-handed pitchers, whom he didn’t hit at all the prior two years. Given a platoon partner, he’s an adequate DH solution who’ll provide patience and some power, but less of these things than, say, Jason Giambi. The shortage of open DH spots also hurts his cause.
You’re right that he is probably better than Bobby Abreu, Pat Burrell and Adam Dunn. But he is still pretty bad.
By Nate
December 8, 2008 2:51 PM | Link to this
The Brave’s farm system with position players is a mixed bag. The Braves do a good job of hyping their prospects. Some good players have come up through the system, but it also seems like a lot of players that were supposedly “can’t miss,” did in fact miss by quite a bit. Lombard and Marte pop into my mind immediately.
Can anybody name the last starting pitcher to be drafted by the Braves, come up through the Braves system, and win 15 games in any season for the Braves.
I believe it was Millwood in 2002. Five years without a homegrown pitchers winning at least 15 games. One solid starting pitcher would have made a big difference these past few years.
By Efrim
December 8, 2008 2:54 PM | Link to this
Actually, here is the link I meant to post in regards to Ibanez:
http://www.billjamesonline.net/fieldingbible/charts/leaders2-0608.gif
By Matt
December 8, 2008 3:00 PM | Link to this
AJ Wears Nipple Rings, you should have your blog privileges revoked for asking who would go to a Cubs game. It’s the most fun I’ve EVER had at a baseball game. Pretty sure I’m in the majority on this one, and I’m a huge Braves fan.
By Doc Holliday
December 8, 2008 3:10 PM | Link to this
Nate
Can you say……..Jason Schmidt………17 and 18 wins………OOOPPPSSSSS he was in SF while doing that…….Bad luck!!!
:)
Maybe Jason Maquis ……..15 wins………OOOOOOPPPPSSSSS!!!!!!!!, he was in STL while doing so…….
Bad luck again…….
Sorry…….Id have to say Millwood is the right answer….
But be happy…….we can still say that CHUCK JAMES has the potential (sarcasm).
By Bobby's Cox
December 8, 2008 3:13 PM | Link to this
I think all DOB was saying is that his glove is better than other FA guys like Dunn and Burrell, and maybe Blake. Still not satisfactory, but better than the choices on the FA market.
i love ibanez. Have been a fan for many many years, especially lately as he’s been a teammate with Ichirio and former HS teammate of mine J. Reed Great bat, defense not so great.
I’d love to see him on the braves, but worry about 1. his defense, and 2. another lefty bat in the lineup. If he were right handed he’d be perfect like DOB mentioned near the trade deadline, in that he’s the perfect stop gap for Heyward, Gorkys, et. al.
I also worry about what he might command contractually with an apparent demand for him. Not that the braves can’t afford it, but because I’d rather have them spend the money on pitching, as outlined by Wren.
By ncscoots
December 8, 2008 3:18 PM | Link to this
Can anybody name the last starting pitcher to be drafted by the Braves, come up through the Braves system, and win 15 games in any season for the Braves.
You could play that game with 20 or more of the 30 ML teams, and get the same answer. And, even for those teams which have a player that meets your criteria, you would have to go back a ton of years to find the one before that.
I’m not cranking on you, in particular, but lots of people on this forum throw that “haven’t developed pitchers” tripe around. Fact is, no team develops as many pitchers as some here seem to think should be the norm. If they did, all 30 teams would have starting fives of home-grown first-rounders, just biding time before HOF induction.
By Don't Trade Franceour, Sheesh
December 8, 2008 3:30 PM | Link to this
Actually Matt,
The idea of going to a Cubs game makes me want to eat pop rocks and staples and chug a Coke with a shot of cyanide.
And I can speak with the four or five hardcore Braves’ friends of mine.
Just sayin’.
By David O'Brien
December 8, 2008 3:31 PM | Link to this
Maddux press conference was really good stuff. He was great with the answers, as always. Cox, Schuerholz, team trainer Jeff “Bubba” Porter and Braves travel/equipment czar Bill Acree were all here, as were teams officials from all the teams Maddux has pitched for and a bunch of others….
Writing a new blog now, will put a lot of Maddux quotes in there…
Efrim, that’s what I was saying, not a bad defensive player compared to others available.
By blueridge
December 8, 2008 3:32 PM | Link to this
I think relying on AJ to be the backbone of this staff is a poor decision. I honestly believe both JJ and JV will end up with more wins by the end of the season. If the Braves are serious about restructuring this team around pitching, Peavy is the only real option moving forward. What’s disappointing is it seems like a pipe dream now. I would bet 10/10 NYY fans would take a mulligan on the Santana trade talks from last year’s hot stove. How do Hughes and Kennedy project now?
I believe that FW owes it to the fan base in Atlanta to at least readdress the possibility of a trade for Peavy. It is an amazing opportunity for the organization, and I would hate for it to pass because two men can’t check their egos.
By The Goche
December 8, 2008 3:32 PM | Link to this
Ibanez isn’t a bad defensive player — Phillips is right about that. At least not compared to the other available guys. And Braves have been interested in him all winter, but he might even up commanding a contract for more years and dollars than they’re comfortable with. DOB
This is exactly what I’ve been talking about. People talk up Ibanez as a good match for us when he’s a lefty and we need a righty, and they eliminate other choices because they aren’t good defenders, but then assume Ibanez is a solid defender just because he isn’t famous enough or on a good enough team for us to notice he’s not.
Really there can only be two reasons why people are so big on him: 1. They think he’ll be cheaper, and he will only be a little cheaper than Dunn, Burrell, etc, if at all. 2. Because he has a better batting average and more RBI.
But the dude is a lefty. And don’t be fooled by last season. Over the last three years he has gone .269/.325/.410 against lefties. He is basically a better than usual platoon player out there.
Plus his defense is bad as Efrim pointed out. And it’s not even noticeably better than the other guys, it’s in the same league at best. Last year the Fielding Bible guys (who are obviously not perfect or anything, but these are knowledgeable guys who did watch every single play last season) rated Raul Ibanez worse than everyone but Delmon Young and Pat Burrell.
I’m not saying he is worse than Dunn, but I am saying that if defense is the concern they say it is, Ibanez just doesn’t fit.
People assume he’s a more complete ballplayer because he’s a “more complete” hitter.
I’m not saying he’s not a solid ballplayer, but he’s 36, and he will not be as cheap as people think, just because you never see him on ESPN. I think his RBI are just a huge result of him usually hitting 3rd when Ichiro is the lead-off guy.
I just don’t really think he’ll be that big a boost or bargain for our team. If we don’t even consider the others, we are silly to call him a fit or anything close to it.
By Bobby's Cox
December 8, 2008 3:35 PM | Link to this
MLB.com says the Cardinals are now interested in Burnett.
St. Louis is 834 miles from Baltimore, or according to google maps, 13 hours and 14 minutes.
By TexasBrave
December 8, 2008 3:35 PM | Link to this
DOB - Rosenthal is reporting that Smoltz would be an attractive addition to several teams if healthy.
While this may be true I can’t imagine the Braves letting Smoltz slip out through our hands. Does Rosenthal just make this stuff up or does he have any ground to stand on by this statement?
Towers said the trade that sent shortstop Khalil Green to St. Louis eased some of the pressure on him to cut payroll.
Oh now he is trying to cover his butt just incase he can’t trade Peavy. Perhaps the train hasn’t left the station.
By Tomas
December 8, 2008 3:38 PM | Link to this
Maddux had unbelievable career, I hope he enjoys his retirement, and nothing but the best. He truly was the pitcher of the 90’s. How many Cy youngs did he win?
Efrim, Bobby Abreu is a much better fielder than Ibañez. He still has a great arm and good speed, and he has won gold gloves. If he moves to LF, which is arguably an easier position, you got to believe his defensive skills would not be an issue at all. The issue is money, and the fact that he is 36-37 years old and has lost a lot of power. He only managed to hit 20HR in Yankee stadium that has a very short RF. He still has a great eye at the plate, and hits 300 which generates a very good OBP. He probably wants 3 yrs 45 million, which I think is way too much. Plus the fact that he bats from the left side of the plate.
Ibañez is 36-37, is average defensively, and is a good hitter(293, 23HR) in seattle. He’d probably ask for 3yrs 39 million, which I think is too much specially when you consider he was offered arbitration and is a type A FA. And he bats from the left side as well.
Pat Burrel is absolutely horrible defensively. But is a power hitter(33HR) but in philly. He bats from the right side at least, but will ask for 4 yrs 53-56 million.
Adam Dunn is below average defensively. But is a power hitter(40HR) anywhere, and generates a lot of BB. But he wants a huge contract and the Braves won’t give it to him.
I think they should trade for Ty Wigginton, he can play LF, is right handed, with power, and would come cheap consider he would make somewhere around the neighberhood of 10 million(a little less). He can also sub chipper in third when he gets injured. The Astros are looking to trade him. I think it makes sense for the Braves to be interested. He has had over 20 homers in each of the past 3 seasons. Maybe trade Blaine Boyer, and a Todd Redmond for Ty Wigginton.
By Fred
December 8, 2008 3:39 PM | Link to this
I agree with everyone who enjoys the ultimate baseball experience at Wrigley Field. Every year, I fly up to Chicago with a buddy to see the Braves play there. Nothing better than a day at Wrigley followed by a juicy steak dinner at Gibson’s.
By David O'Brien
December 8, 2008 3:39 PM | Link to this
I would just add that after hearing him today, I now think Maddux will be back in some capacity, as a coach or whatever, in the future. That’s 180 degrees from what I’ve thought before, what I’d been led to believe.
He said today he hoped to pass down all that he’d been taught by Cox, Mazzone and so many others coaches, and that after a year at home he’d think about his future, whether he wants to coach or do something else in the game. Sounds like he really would like to be a coach or — and this is too good to even imagine — a manager.
He’d be great, if you ask me, as a manager. Or obviously as a pitching coach, but he knows so much more than just pitching.
By Rahul
December 8, 2008 3:41 PM | Link to this
The best defensive metrics (UZR, PMR) all have Dunn, Ibanez, and Burrell as being atrocious with the glove, and there is no way Ibanez is any better than the other two
By Efrim
December 8, 2008 3:46 PM | Link to this
DOB
I agree, he isn’t as bad as the others. But I hope the Braves stay away if the price soars to three years guaranteed. At 36, his defense can only get worse and he is a career .266/.322/.411 hitter against lefties. Not exactly what the Braves need……but I understand the pickens are slim.
By Nate
December 8, 2008 3:47 PM | Link to this
I’m not expecting HOF pitchers every couple of years. Winning 15 games one time is hardly a criteria for greatness. But one real mlb caliber starting pitcher in five years isn’t asking too much. The Braves in fact had two pitchers in Jason Marquis and Adam Wainwright who have stuck in the majors but traded them away. You can say that Jason Marquis sucks, or whatever but if the Braves could have plugged his stats into the rotation the past two years the Braves may have made the playoffs. And if the team hadn’t traded away Wainwright just think how differently the past few years might have gone.
Trading away Wainwright was one of those watershed trades that’s still effecting the team today. You just can’t trade away good young pitching and not have it come back to bite you.
By TexasBrave
December 8, 2008 3:56 PM | Link to this
DOB you need to ask Greg about writing a book about his pitching philosophy(sp). I know I would be the first one in line to buy it.
By Bill in ATL
December 8, 2008 3:58 PM | Link to this
I would LOVE to see Greg take over for Bobby in a few years and stay for about 20 years. I’m assuming he would be successful, but why wouldn’t I assume that?
Frankly I think he would be everything Bobby is in terms of being a player’s manager, one that they would love to play for. And further, if baseball is a chess game then I think you’d be hard pressed to find anyone in baseball that would beat him at the strategic aspects of figuring out what the other guy is thinking and being one move ahead at all times.
The more I think of it, I just can’t imagine him not being an awesome manager.
By DAP
December 8, 2008 4:00 PM | Link to this
tomas i disagee with your assessment of abreu. he bats from the left side, but it doesnt really matter. he hits righties and lefties almost equally. he is only 34, and is not losing power. he has had low power numbers the last two years, but hitting 20 homers is normal for him. (his 162 average is 22 homers for his career) you are right he last won a gold glove just three seasons ago, and he still runs pretty well, which tells me he would be ok defensively, but everything ive read about him says other wise. also, i dont think hes going to make $15mil per.
id say abreu is a good option for the braves, and so is wigginton.
By johnny 99
December 8, 2008 4:07 PM | Link to this
Scoots, well said at 3:18. It is stuff like this outlandish idea that there is a failure afoot because of circumstances like “developing pitchers” that prevents me from posting more often—i’ll scan for DOB posts and sometimes read through in search of other (sane) denizens’ thoughts. You encapsulate this well, and here’s a minor and paltry addition:
I’m 31 and have been a fanatical braves fan since i was around 8. Murph poster on the wall, Oberkfell baseball cards aplenty, was at the game with my dad and best friend when they brawled after the back-to-backs by DM and i think KG,Sr., with great seats because we (and yes, i’m one of those “we” guys with no reservations about it—i’ve lived and died through enough summers at 7pm nightly to feel like i’m one of the crowd) were AWFUL!! But along came Glavine (drafted and “developed”), and Smoltz (traded for when a minor leaguer) and Avery (drafted, developed, and flamed-out). What are the other arms of note during the run? Maddux, free agent. Leibrandt, acquired veteran. Neagle, trade. Perez, Marquis—less said the better. Millwood—ok, sure, when he was with us but no great shakes after. Ortiz, J. Wright, Thompson, Byrd, hell, the dueling Smiths of Pete and Zane…
“developing” pitchers is no easy task. what’s the number of pitchers developed by the Yanks, Sox, other Sox, Cubs, Mets, etc., etc. that are still with those clubs?
Especially in light of the GREATEST NO-DOUBT-ABOUT-IT, ALWAYS CLEAN, ALWAYS SMARTER, MOST WATCHABLE, BEST pitcher of my lifetime’s retirement, lets take a moment to recognize that what we had as Braves fans for a good solid 12-15 years after being a JOKE for 5 years was an unlikely and fortunate event. You cannot blame an organization that 90%+ of baseball lauds as one of the best in the game for not maintaining that level of fortune. Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz—all freaks (in the most positive way possible) but each in their own ways.
Thinking that happens all the time is a fallacy, since it hasn’t been done before by 3 teammates in an era worth comparing, and there are no signs of it since. Remember those comparisons a few years ago with OUR big three and Zito, Hudson, Mulder? And people here malign our misfortune with Tim’s getting hurt? Would you rather have either of those other two, who were compared to Glav and Doggie?
I want success and a return to the elite as much as anyone whose check isn’t signed by McGuirk (or whomever). But to malign an organization that busts its tail to field a competitive team EVERY year—for its fans, its city, and much of the NATION, thanks to TBS and our ol’ buddy double-T for not “developing pitchers” is hypocritical, short-sighted, ingrateful, and just plain off-base.
Maybe you get your kicks spouting off on a blog about a totally transparent objection, but me and scoots, we don’t dance that song….:)
DOB— Didja see that Bruce and the band kept recording and testing new material during the “MAGIC” tour, even after Danny passed away? Result—new Bruce with the band album comes out (refuse to ever use the phrase “drops” with regard to release) Jan. 27. Single was up on iTunes for a bit, may still be. Title track it is—called “Working on a Dream.” Also, i used to (shudder) work for the MOUSE that roared back when I was an undergrad. Can maybe give you some recommendations for surviving Disney this spring. remind me to pass them on. my post lists my best email contact. Keep up the grand work…
J99
By DAP
December 8, 2008 4:15 PM | Link to this
nate im with you on wainwright…marquis, no. dont worry to much about the last 5 years, man. wren has refused to trade hanson this offseason, and so far has held onto morton and reyes. you oughta be happy about that, instead of worrying about the last 5 years.
By TennesseePaul
December 8, 2008 4:18 PM | Link to this
Perhaps Maddux is the replacement for Bobby? I could live with that… but could Terry?
By Thundersticks
December 8, 2008 4:19 PM | Link to this
You heard it here first, folks - Maddux will replace Cox in 2010.
By nolie
December 8, 2008 4:24 PM | Link to this
will be out of the braves range…nobody ever says what he is likley to sign for. so, how can we know if he is out of our range?
i dont think he is or will be. DAP
3 years, 30 mil
By TennesseePaul
December 8, 2008 4:26 PM | Link to this
[Ibanez] isn’t as bad as the [Dunn, Burell, etc.]
What? Are we going to split hairs here?
By Lew
December 8, 2008 4:27 PM | Link to this
Tomas-I wouldn’t mind having Wiggington on the bench, but as a starting left fielder? No way. Besides, if you have him as your starting Left Fielder, then who plays out there while Chipper spends his usual stint on the DL and Wigginton plays third? Matt Diaz? Brandon Jones? Might as well just put them out there and be done with the whole situation. Spend the $10 mil or so on more pitching.
By Raddad
December 8, 2008 4:29 PM | Link to this
My fellow bloggers.
Think about it “IF” Bobby retires the new manager would be NED YOST. There is no one else that even remotely manages like Bobby. Listen to what the Brewer players say about NED they love to play for him??? NED YOST 2010.
By Lew
December 8, 2008 4:30 PM | Link to this
Thundersticks-No he won’t. I would imagine that even were he interested in managing, he would go pay some dues managingin the minors (or at least coaching first). The Braves wouldn’t hire someone to manage the team because he was a good pitcher for them, unless he had some kind of managerial experience.
By nolie
December 8, 2008 4:30 PM | Link to this
Would there be a worth while package the Braves could offer to the Royals for Greinke? I have read that the Royals don’t want to trade Greinke but would listen to offers. I think Greinke would be a guy the Braves should really go after. Signing him might not be as hard as it is being made out. Adam
according to Stark’s latest column they want 5 players back anod none of them throwin types. way too much for a guy unproven under pressure.
By Andy K.
December 8, 2008 4:34 PM | Link to this
Thundersticks Whats the weather like in fantasy world? Seriously. Frank Wren is going to choose a player two years into retirement, with no professional baseball coaching experience to be at the helm of a major league team? I mean, Greg Maddux is a baseball legend, but he will not be managing the Braves any time soon. To be a manager, you have to have some coaching experience at the professional level. Look for someone like Fredi Gonzalez, Pendleton, Yost, Hubbard, etc. Whenever Bobby decides to retire, he might even retire after this season.
By Daybed Wagmoe
December 8, 2008 4:34 PM | Link to this
If Maddux ever becomes a manager of a team other than the Braves, I think I would highly consider becoming a secondary fan of that team — unless, of course, that team is the Mets.
I can only dream of Maddux someday becoming the manager for Atlanta…
By Lew
December 8, 2008 4:37 PM | Link to this
Not to mention that Wigginton has played a total of 30 games in Left Field and less than 50 anywhere in the outfield. Do y’all seriously think he’s an outfield option?
By DAP
December 8, 2008 4:38 PM | Link to this
nolie 3 years, 30 mil
i didnt think ibanez would get that much. if thats the price, i would opt to get some one younger than ibanez. id give abreu more money for three years, or bradley.
By Andy K.
December 8, 2008 4:42 PM | Link to this
How about: Braves Get: Greinke Pena Jr. Teahen
Royals Get: Esco Reyes or Morton Boyer Gregor Blanco
Then we sign Furcal, and Pena Jr is our new Gotay type. Trade KJ for somethin…..
By Anders
December 8, 2008 4:43 PM | Link to this
Lew
Your an old school type guy. You think Torre or Hodges should have gone in the HOF today?
I say Torre for sure, Hodges a little before my time.
By Anders
December 8, 2008 4:46 PM | Link to this
Wiggington in the outfield? Think Greg Luzinski.
Not a pretty sight.
By Efrim
December 8, 2008 4:50 PM | Link to this
Mark Bowman from mlb.com hot stove blogs:
The Braves are still looking at a number of power-hitting outfielders that they could land via trade. Three of the players currently on their radar are Rick Ankiel, Corey Hart and Jeremy Hermida.
It doesn’t appear the Braves still have much interest in Ryan Ludwick. But they may talk to the Cardinals about Ankiel, whose drawback stems from the fact that he’s a Scott Boras client who will be eligible for free agency at the end of the 2009 season.
The Braves likely wouldn’t have to give up as much to get Ankiel as they would to land Hart, who will be arbitration-eligible for the next three seasons. There have been whispers that the Brewers may choose to trade Hart to slash some money from the payroll.
It doesn’t seem like the Braves would have to give the Marlins a lot to get Hermida. But it appears they are more currently more interested in Hart and Ankiel.
I guess the Braves really don’t care what side of the plate they hit from. If Ankiel is a free agent at the end of 2009, he really shouldn’t cost that much.
By brent a.
December 8, 2008 4:50 PM | Link to this
For some of you historians and experts out there …
In regards to Maddux as a manager, I can remember having heard it discussed at times in the past, that pitchers often do not make great managers.
That’s nothing against Maddux, and it’s not an indication of my feelings about Maddux as a manager; however, is there some resistance toward hiring former pitchers (and even pitching coaches) as managers?
Thanks for any thoughts.
By ncscoots
December 8, 2008 4:51 PM | Link to this
Well, I’d love to be the fly on the wall, when Maddux starts explaining to some 19-year-old about moderating the finger pressure at different points of the seams, LOL. The look on the kid’s face might be worth the price of admission.
Some exceptionally talented ex-players are unable to be very good coaches; just too hard to articulate and teach the great skills they employed. Maddux probably has a better chance to overcome that than some other gifted players, but it’s more rare than you might think.
By Efrim
December 8, 2008 4:55 PM | Link to this
Gammons updates about the Braves/Burnett:
Free-agent right-hander A.J. Burnett’s agents will be in Las Vegas this afternoon and think talks are progressing with Braves.
By McFann O –[zzz]
December 8, 2008 5:03 PM | Link to this
Cory Hart? Aw, man…he’s the guy that threw the ball to McCann in that final play in the All-Star Game.
Hey, think they sent the photo of that play to Cooperstown—ya know, bein’ the last game at Yankee Stadium?
By Brett
December 8, 2008 5:08 PM | Link to this
Maybe it’s just me. But if the Braves want to go after an oft injured guy with boatloads of potential, why not sign Sheets at 2-3 years and maybe add a potentially solid #3 in Brad Penny, both have been starters in the all star game in the last three years. Then Vasquez could be a 3 or 4. The Braves could pursue a power hitting left fielder via trade or free agency, albeit Milton Bradley, Ibanez or in a large stretch Carlos Lee or Jermaine Dye. But what they desperately need aside from pitching is a true lead-off man.
By David O'Brien
December 8, 2008 5:12 PM | Link to this
I’m hearing Ankiel and Hart, but not so much Hermida. Maybe that part’s true, but he was way down the original list the Braves put together.
By GTgirl
December 8, 2008 5:17 PM | Link to this
DOB, you think the report on MLB.com Hot Stove is creditable? “Recent reports indicate that Burnett is close to a deal with Atlanta, but nothing has been finalized”, or any truth to this?
http://hotstove.mlblogs.com/archives/2008/12/orioleacespastandpresent.html
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
December 8, 2008 5:21 PM | Link to this
Hart had a .759 OPS last year…Braves thinking upside?
By Lew
December 8, 2008 5:22 PM | Link to this
Anders-I’d vote Hodges in. Check his stats from 1949-1955 (in particular). Anyone who hit 30+HR and knocked in over 100 during those years was a stud for that particular time frame. His power production throughout an 18 year career was definitely way above the average for the raised mound years.
He also played in seven World Series, as well as serving in the Marines for two years when his production would have added significantly to his totals. He would most likely have hit over 400 HR had he played those two years.
Torre would be an inductee to my way of thinking, but mainly because his managerial record pushed him over the edge.
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
December 8, 2008 5:23 PM | Link to this
Plus, I thought the Bravos were looking for someone to bat cleanup…well, I guess anyone can bat there, but you know what I am saying…
By Nate
December 8, 2008 5:23 PM | Link to this
I’m not worrying about the past five years. Those years have come and gone. I was commenting the Brave’s farm system as was written about by Bisher.
i think some of this points are valid, but they’re about five years late. I think that the Braves got complacent toward the second half of the 90’s regarding developing starting pitching. Its easy to get complacent when you have guys like Maddux, Glavine, and Smoltz in their primes. The problem is that as these guys got old and two of them left town. The result of this complacency or whatever you want to call it could be seen over the past five years of so when the Braves have not really had any young successful pitchers make it to the big league club.
I hope the club has better luck in the future.
By Mark
December 8, 2008 5:23 PM | Link to this
DOB,
Do you have any idea what the asking price is of Hart? What is his current salary? Sounds like the Braves would be saving a lot of money with him this year atleast. Anyways would that open up the Braves to make anymore moves? Thanks.
By Efrim
December 8, 2008 5:24 PM | Link to this
Gotta figure Ankiel would cost less than Hart considering he is a free agent after 2009. Adding Ankiel, or any other left handed hitter for that matter makes this team awfully left handed heavy. A potential lineup:
Escobar
Johnson
Jones
Ankiel
McCann
Francoeur
Kotchman
Blanco/Anderson/Schafer
Both teams probably see themselves as contenders next season, so I’m not sure where I see a match.
By webhead
December 8, 2008 5:24 PM | Link to this
2Bs Kelly Johnson or Martin Prado — Because of his experience, Johnson has gained more interest on the trade market. With Prado, who some Braves players have called the team’s “second-best hitter,” Atlanta seemingly has a player capable of handling the second-base duties on an everyday basis I seen this on the Braves MLB site by Mark Bowman. Was this a joke or something? He wasn’t the the second best hitter on the bench. Also said Johnson might be non-tendered What’s that about? I must have woke up in Buzzaro world
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
December 8, 2008 5:24 PM | Link to this
Phillips followed Gammons with this:
“Maybe the signing of A.J. Burnett will loosen up the market. Indications are that the free-agent right-hander is moving closer to a deal with the Braves. “
By Lew
December 8, 2008 5:25 PM | Link to this
Anders-And considering I was born in 1951-he was pretty much before my time, too. By the time I was old enough to care much about baseball, he was ending his career. I remember him more as a Mets’ manager and by reputation as a player.
By GTgirl
December 8, 2008 5:31 PM | Link to this
Posted by Steve Phillips about 10 min ago: “Maybe the signing of A.J. Burnett will loosen things up. Indications are that the free-agent right-hander is moving closer to a deal with the Braves.”
By Efrim
December 8, 2008 5:34 PM | Link to this
JasoninFL
“Maybe the signing of A.J. Burnett will loosen up the market. Indications are that the free-agent right-hander is moving closer to a deal with the Braves.”
Yea, that would be nice. Imagine if the Braves got Burnett without having to guarantee a fifth year. Nice to dream I suppose.
By Joe M.
December 8, 2008 5:35 PM | Link to this
webhead (5:24), that can’t be right. The Braves aren’t non-tendering Johnson. No one believes that (no even the KJ-haters.) Assuming you’re telling the truth, I guess Bowman is talking up Prado (lying) in case of a KJ trade (it’s happened before.) Second best hitter? On a team with Chipper, McCann, Johnson and Escobar?
Bowman says the Braves are interested in Rick Ankiel, Corey Hart and Jeremy Hermida and NOT Ludwick. Those are certainly cheaper (in terms of talent that’d be given up) than Ludwick.
By Don!
December 8, 2008 5:37 PM | Link to this
Hey DOB!
Is is possible to get two blog entries going — one for A.J. and one for Mad Dog?
This entry is getting too long for me to see on my cell phone’s browser, but I know you’re working the one on Maddux now, and I’d hate to get that one run over by all the A.J discussion that’s likely to follow the meetings in Vegas.
Thanks,
Don!
By Nocturnal Owl
December 8, 2008 5:37 PM | Link to this
the Braves have Rick Ankiel, Corey Hart, and Jeremy Hermida on the radar (with more interest in the first two)
this is that run producing power hitter we looking for? SAD
By Tomas
December 8, 2008 5:46 PM | Link to this
Lew, you’re forgeting about Martin Prado, he can play either left field, and third base. I’m just saying Ty Wigginton is a good choice, specially when you consider that Bobby Abreu, Raul Ibañez, Pat Burrel, Manny Ramirez, and Adam Dunn will make more than 13 million, and will not end up in Atlanta. Ty Wigginton plays the same kind of defense as Pat Burrel, Adam Dunn, and Manny Ramirez, meaning below average defense in LF, but at least he hits for average and power and makes less than 10 million. Plus the fact the Astros need to dump payroll and have made it known they would trade Wigginton(who played left field this year when Carlos Lee got injured).
DAP, you’re right Abreu is 34, but you have to admit he wont hit more than 20 homers in Atlanta, maybe 15, which isn’t the power numbers the Braves are looking for. And considering the fact that the outfield FA market is thin, and he wasn’t offered arbitration, he will be asking for at least 15 million per year.
By nolie
December 8, 2008 5:48 PM | Link to this
Hart had a .759 OPS last year…Braves thinking upside Jason
Braves place way more emphasis on scout’s evaluations than they do on stats like OPS.One of thereasons that they have little to no interest in Dunn.
By jetsgrn5
December 8, 2008 5:48 PM | Link to this
does anybody know why the braves are not showing interest in trading for Delmon Young? i would love a future outfield of young shaffer heyward - maybe trade frenchy next winter for a young 3rd baseman - that would pretty much set the entire lineup for years.
By sri
December 8, 2008 5:48 PM | Link to this
Hey Anders,
Since it is a slow day on the blog. What do you think about the Mets offer to K-Rod. What do you think the Mets should do this off-season? I think they are better off with Kerry Wood.
By TennesseePaul
December 8, 2008 5:50 PM | Link to this
Some exceptionally talented ex-players are unable to be very good coaches; just too hard to articulate and teach the great skills they employed.
This reminded me of an ESPN Magazine piece on Maddux from a last April I think…
when Brad Penny and Maddux were teammates on the Dodgers, during the last two months of 2006, they had a conversation one day that led Penny to reach a stunning conclusion: This guy knows my stuff better than I do. It was eerie, really, how easily Maddux dissected Penny’s repertoire and suggested ways to maximize it. Penny, figuring he’d take advantage of the situation, asked Maddux to call a game for him against the Cubs. And so, on the night of Sept. 13, Penny glanced into the dugout before every delivery and found Maddux, who signaled the next pitch by looking toward different parts of the ballpark. Penny threw seven scoreless innings with no walks and beat the Cubs 6-0. “Maddux probably won’t tell you that story,” Penny says. He’s right.
—Tim Keown
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
December 8, 2008 5:52 PM | Link to this
Nate, I agree completely with your post at 3:47. Well said.
Not to mention the impatience of Bobby Cox in his dealings with Kyle Davies. The Braves have been short on pitching in recent years in spite of the fact that they have not won squat since 2005.
Atlanta’s win now philosophy isn’t adding up. In other words, the present Braves are not the type of organization that can afford to be trading young talented pitching and expect to be successful in the long run.
I applaud the fact that Frank Wren has held on to the Braves young stable of pitchers so far. Maybe he is starting to learn from the lessons of past mistakes.
By TennesseePaul
December 8, 2008 5:53 PM | Link to this
That is also the primo example of the intent and hope when a GM signs a guy for “Veteran Presence”; something Vazquez couldn’t possibly offer. But, let’s be honest here, no body in the game could offer what Maddux offers.
By RC
December 8, 2008 5:54 PM | Link to this
I have to say I am really suprised that the Braves would be looking at Ankiel, Hart, and Hermida, considering that any of those 3 is a near guarantee for 100 Ks (provided they stay healthy enough to get the at bats). I guess the advantage is that all Ankiel and Hart are both pretty good defensively, and have been decent run producers. However, for this type of move to be effective they have to be counting on a BIG bounceback by Francouer.
By William
December 8, 2008 5:58 PM | Link to this
12:31 p.m. — Burnett shows interest in Yanks
A.J. Burnett seems more interested in pitching in New York than CC Sabathia, the Yankees’ other top free-agent target. While Sabathia sits on the Yankees’ offer of the richest-ever pitching contract and reportedly met with GM Brian Cashman, Burnett has reached out to former Yankee Carl Pavano, who did not steer him away from the Yankees. Pavano, who did not enjoy his New York experience, told Burnett “he has the stuff to pitch there,” according to a major-league source. —Ed Price
By RC
December 8, 2008 5:59 PM | Link to this
I agree with you on Wood over K-Rod Sri. I think that Wood is likely to accept fewer dollars and years, and has the bulldog type mentality that the Mets will need if they make the postseason again. That being said, as a Braves fan, I hope they offer $100 million for 4 years of K-Rod.
By Mike
December 8, 2008 6:09 PM | Link to this
Hart is Francouer junior. .300 OBP..not what Atlanta needs. I really thought we were going to make a splash this offseason, but I’m starting to worry that it’s going to Burnett and a bunch of minor pieces. :(
By TennesseePaul
December 8, 2008 6:12 PM | Link to this
So…
What is it they eat in Atlanta that causes their outfielders to do this?
The one thing about Hermida is, even as he has struggled, he has still put up better OBP than Francoeur. Just not as many games.
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
December 8, 2008 6:13 PM | Link to this
So many things have been said concerning Greg Maddux. Allow me to add my own original thoughts.
If pitching were medical science, Greg Maddux would be a brain surgeon.
By Tomas
December 8, 2008 6:20 PM | Link to this
Ankiel? I prefer Corey Hart.
By bill
December 8, 2008 6:20 PM | Link to this
Hey Mike, even if it’s “Burnett and a bunch of minor pieces” as you say it will be much better than 2008 so long as the injured pieces come back healthy.
I would be quite happy with a starting rotation of: Smoltz, AJ, Jair, Vasquez and any of a number of possible #5 guys including Hanson or Campillo perhaps (with Hudson coming back late in the season on top of that).
The bullpen anchored by healthy Moylan, Soriano and Gonzalez would be very good as well.
Frankly the offense wouldn’t look so bad with Francour even being close to what he should be (though I’m not counting on it until I see it) and a few “minor” additions as you say. (Remember, all offenses look better when they only have to score 3 runs to win games.)
By Nocturnal Owl
December 8, 2008 6:21 PM | Link to this
Maybe I am overreacting but having Ankiel, Hart, or even Hermida to go with recovering Frenchy and Rookie Schafer does not sound pleasing. I just think this could be rumors but why 3 guys mentioned at once …AAAH…I just don’t know.
We need a cleanup hitter.
If we do indeed sign A.J. what will happen with Yunel? I love the guy but will he love us?
By keylargo
December 8, 2008 6:30 PM | Link to this
This quote was taken from TennesseePaul’s earlier post -
when Brad Penny and Maddux were teammates on the Dodgers, during the last two months of 2006, they had a conversation one day that led Penny to reach a stunning conclusion: This guy knows my stuff better than I do. It was eerie, really, how easily Maddux dissected Penny’s repertoire and suggested ways to maximize it. Penny, figuring he’d take advantage of the situation, asked Maddux to call a game for him against the Cubs. And so, on the night of Sept. 13, Penny glanced into the dugout before every delivery and found Maddux, who signaled the next pitch by looking toward different parts of the ballpark. Penny threw seven scoreless innings with no walks and beat the Cubs 6-0. “Maddux probably won’t tell you that story,” Penny says. He’s right.
How nostalgic. It reminds me of when JoJo Reyes was being tutored by John Smoltz and Tom Glavine earlier this year. But JoJo blows two future Hall of Fame pitchers off and says they are keeping him confused on the mound.
I keep hoping I’ll see JoJo’s name in a trade despite all his potential. He just doesn’t seem to be smart enough to be a MLB pitcher.
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
December 8, 2008 6:40 PM | Link to this
Here we go…what we have all been anticipating…and dreading:
Yanks want to talk with Burnett’s agent
Monday, December 8, 2008 | Print Entry
Posted by Jerry Crasnick, Jayson Stark The Yankees are sending out signals that they’d like to meet with A.J. Burnett’s agent, Darek Braunecker, and might be willing to surpass the guaranteed dollar figure that Atlanta has on the table for the free agent right-hander.
The Braves have offered Burnett a four-year, $60 million deal with a buyout and a fifth-year option. It’s believed that Atlanta’s overall package, including the option, is worth $75 million.
Burnett, like Derek Lowe, is waiting to see what happens with CC Sabathia. If Sabathia signs with a West Coast team, it will increase the Yankees’ urgency to sign another starter and ultimately work to Burnett and/or Lowe’s advantage.
The Yankees appear willing to be flexible with money, but thus far they’ve been resistant to giving Burnett five guaranteed years.
Braunecker and partner Mark Rodgers arrived in Las Vegas on Monday afternoon and are expected to begin full-scale meetings with clubs starting Tuesday.
MLB
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
December 8, 2008 6:42 PM | Link to this
Where art thou blog master?
By GTgirl
December 8, 2008 6:44 PM | Link to this
Seeing JoJo smart enough? what are you basing that on? you spent a lot of time with him huh? How about Glavine’s first full year in the bigs didnt go real great either? Not saying JoJo is anywhere near a Glavine, still has plenty of time to figure it out.
Gotta go to work! cya
By Chop Chop
December 8, 2008 6:50 PM | Link to this
Milton Bradley DH’d 97 times last year. He started 20 games (19 in RF; 1 in LF) in the field.
Bradley’s 126 games played in 2008 constituted the second-highest total of his career. Again, he DH’d 97 times in order to play that much.
The guy cannot stay healthy (do the math…the DHing didn’t keep him from missing 36 games). There is no way an NL team should even consider signing him. Hell, the Rangers might not even bring him back after the numbers he put up for them. Dude finished 17th in the AL MVP voting. Maybe the Rangers know something that some bloggers here don’t? Yeah. They know he can’t be counted on to be there.
The Braves are a team that already has two hitters (Chipper and McCann) that, by injury or necessity, are going to miss a sizable chunk of games. They cannot afford to rely on an injury-prone outfielder to provide the outfield punch that was sorely lacked last season.
(I have posted something damn similar to this a few times since the middle of last season. I sometimes feel that the only way Milton Bradley’s cautionary tale can be learned is through a boot-heel imprint to one’s noggin.)
By Andy K.
December 8, 2008 6:50 PM | Link to this
DOB: Where’s the new blog? Or are you quiet because something is brewing?
By doc
December 8, 2008 6:51 PM | Link to this
DOB just read the articel on mad dog retiring, what a class act from start to finish. only thing good about his retirement is that he seemed to leave the door open to becoming a coach or more down the road. it would be fantastic if he were to bring such a demeanor back to the game.
on another note i will be in las vegas wednesday to saturday afternoon staying at the venetian. would be pleased to buy a round and a cigar if you have the time dob and arent hob nobbing too much. i’ll be there for a conference.
By Patrick
December 8, 2008 6:52 PM | Link to this
yeah…talk about over-promising and under-delivering on the new blog DOB
By chris
December 8, 2008 6:53 PM | Link to this
Isn’t Ankiel in his walk year, plus represented by Boras. I know the latter to be true, for sure. That was posted by MLB Trade Rumors for sure.
By nolie
December 8, 2008 6:54 PM | Link to this
Ankiel,Hermida, Hart? These are the proven run producers that Wren claimed we we going after? No wonder I’m as cynical as i am. ;-)
By David O'Brien
December 8, 2008 7:00 PM | Link to this
NEW BLOG
By StingerSplash
December 8, 2008 7:01 PM | Link to this
DOB,
I am very disappointed in you. Forty-five inches on Maddux’s greatness but not one word on what he was really great at — his legendary pranks, from his shower “tricks” to catching folks with their hand on a support pole unaware to all the stuff that just is absolutely too disgusting to mention (and he does like what Ferris Bueller would at 40-something?) The great thing about Maddux is what is great about baseball: You look at Randy Johnson, Roger Clemens and Curt Schilling and you think, yeah, those guys are built to win games. Big guys, big arms. You look at Maddux and go, ‘He’s won more games than anyone else alive? Are you serious?’ The Prime is darn good eating. You get better odds at craps than you do anything else. The tables have gone to endless shoes, so it’s harder to count cards. Enjoy Vegas.
By Mike S
December 8, 2008 7:07 PM | Link to this
I like the idea of trading for Ludwick far better than Ankiel, Hermida or Hart.
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March 4, 2009 1:55 AM | Link to this
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