AJC > Sports > Braves > Blog > Archives > 2008 > November > 20 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USBraves still shopping for a Big Dog
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
The leaves are off the big ol’ oak tree I’m looking at in my front yard. Thanksgiving is just a week away. And the Braves haven’t filled any of their three stated top-priority needs — power-hitting outfielder and two additional, proven starting pitchers (not Smoltz, Glavine, Hampton or Tommy Hanson, though one or more of those fellas is likely to be on the 2009 pitching staff at some point, and it really wouldn’t shock me if that last one, young Hanson, is on it from opening day).
The denizens of the Braves/Man in Black blog, and plenty of other, less-fortunate Braves fans, are understandably growing impatient. But while some of you are already turning attention to comparatively little dogs — can I interest you in a Randy Wolf, an Oliver Perez, or a rejuvenated Mike Hampton (no, really….) — the Braves are still aiming for a Big Dog.
Jake Peavy fits that description. So does A.J. Burnett. Maybe Andy Pettitte (hey, he’s 36, but has 14 or more wins and more than 200 innings in each of the past four seasons, and in seven of the past nine).
And certainly, a very Big Dog is Roy Halladay, who it’s rumored might possibly be available for trade, though I find that a bit hard to wrap my brain around and accept as a strong possibility.
Still, veteran scribe Dan Graziano of the Newark Star-Ledger has heard the Blue Jays might explore the market for 2003 Cy Young Award winner. If so, you can be assured the Braves would be in the line of teams interested in Halladay, who has two years and $30 mill left on his contract.
The epitome of a “horse” pitcher, Halladay won 20 games this season and has churned out 52 wins and 691-1/3 innings over the past three seasons while finishing in the top five in AL Cy Young Award voting each year. No one has been as effective and durable as him these past three years. Repeat, no one.
Again, I have doubts about whether the Blue Jays would really trade their 31-year-old ace, but if they do you can bet the asking price in a trade would be comparable to what the Padres want for Peavy, if not greater.
Which brings us back to Peavy….
I don’t care what’s been said, what water has flowed under, through and around the bridge that was Braves-Padres negotiations, I still believe this deal is going to get done. As ham-fisted as this thing has been handled from San Diego’s end, the fact remains, they almost have to trade the 2007 Cy Young Award winner now, given the state of their payroll-purging franchise and GM Kevin Towers’ statement two weeks ago about how the train had left the station, in regards to the possibility of the Padres keeping Peavy, etc.
The Braves need him. The Padres need to trade him. The Braves have offered the best package for Peavy including a very good young, affordable player in shortstop Yunel Escobar, who could turn out to be a star and will almost certainly be no less than a solid major leaguer for many years to come. They would also likely give up center-field prospect Gorkys Hernandez, who is at least two years away but who has legitimate big-time potential, according to every scout I’ve talked to and opposing managers in the low-level minors.
The Cubs have Ryan Dempster now, and thus less need to meet Towers’ asking price for Peavy.
If the Braves pull it off, they’ll do so without parting with top-rated pitching prospect Tommy Hanson (one more time, folks: Hanson isn’t getting traded) and apparently without parting with center-field prospect Jordan Schafer, who might not have quite as high a “ceiling” as Hernandez, but who could be ready to take over in center on opening day and also has star potential, in the eyes of Braves officials and a few scouts I talked to last fall when he was tearing up the Arizona Fall League (months before his reputation was tarnished a bit by the 50-game suspension for alleged use of human growth hormone).
Schafer struggled initially in his return from the suspension, but played very well in the last couple of months of the season at Double-A Mississippi, reestablishing his status within the organization and his spot on the organizational ladder. He also helped himself by agreeing to play winter ball in Mexico, hardly a glamorous assignment (Josh Anderson declined to play winter ball; I don’t know if that will do anything to his candidacy or not, but also keep in mind that Schafer last spring impressed Bobby Cox and Braves teammates with his play and his attitude during spring training, when Cox said he’d be comfortable with the kid in center field if something happened to Mark Kotsay).
Schafer hit .276 with one homer and nine steals in 27 games with Navojoa — “He was playing well,” GM Frank Wren told me — before injuring a middle-finger tendon last week and returning home to be checked out. There was no break, but he’s done with winter ball — going to rest for three weeks, then rehab for a few weeks. Should be fine for spring training, Wren said.
Trading Escobar would open a big hole, no doubt, and the Braves aren’t inclined to turn his job over to anyone in the organization. They like Omar Infante in a utility role, Martin Prado’s weakest defensive position is shortstop, and Brent Lillibridge simply hasn’t shown he can hit major league pitching well enough to turn a starting job to him.
But it’s easier for team with a budget to replace a shortstop in this market than it is to acquire a free-agent pitching ace, and Escobar is one of the few young, affordable and extremely attractive players the Braves have who they’re willing to entertain offers for to get that ace pitcher or a slugging OF (Brian McCann, Jair Jurrjens, Hanson, OF prospect Jason Heyward _ those are guys teams would love to get, but they aren’t going anywhere).
There are plenty of potential shortstop replacements, though all have a flaw or two and a few would be very pricey, including former Brave Rafael Furcal, who would cost at least $10 mill per season in a multi-year deal, and perhaps closer to the three-year, $39 mill deal he just played out. Other free agents include aging-but-still-intriguing former Brave Edgar Renteria (great in the clubhouse, played very well for Braves in 2007, and not well at all for Detroit in 2008), Orlando Cabrera and Cesar Izturis, and trade possibilities including Julio Lugo (plenty of warts), Jack Wilson (a wart or two), Maicer Izturis and J.J. Hardy.
Whether the Braves trade Escobar for Peavy or not, their willingness to include him in the deal tells me the Braves would probably trade him in another big deal if this protracted Peavy negotation finally is irretrievably broken (ouch, I just had a personal divorce flashback typing that sentence.)
But this thing is not broken, or at least I don’t think it is. Wren told me he hasn’t spoken with Towers since the Braves announced Friday they were pulling out of their active pursuit of Peavy and turning attention toward other potential trades and free-agent negotiations.
Still, I don’t think it’s over. Not by a long shot.
And the fact that we’ve gone more than an entire day without hearing anything out of San Diego regarding Peavy, that only raises my antennae a bit and makes me wonder if something _ oh, OK, I’ll stop talking about it. But I’m just saying, when you least expect it ….
Wren on talks: After Ryan Dempster re-upped with the Cubs and the Yankees were said to be preparing a five-year, $80 mill offer for Burnett, I asked Wren on Tuesday night if the Braves were any closer to getting a pitcher or outfielder.
“We’re continuing to explore every opportunity,” he said. “We made some calls today, talked to some agents, also talked to some clubs about possibilities. We have a lot of conversations going on. I can’t say at this point how hopeful we are with any of them.”
Was he at all alarmed by the seemingly thin-and-getting-thinner availability of top-of-rotation starting pitchers?
“Not at this point,” he said. “There’s still guys out there that we like. I don’t see, in talking to representatives [agents], that anything is going to happen real quickly.”
As for the possibility of re-signing lefty Mike Hampton, Wren said, “We’ve had some discussions with him, some talks about an offer. Real good dialogue…. I don’t expect anything to happen [with Hampton and another team] before we at least have a chance to talk to him. We’ve had a number of conversations.”
And on re-signing Smoltz and/or Glavine, both attempting surgery comebacks, Wren said, “There’s no timetable. Just continuing to watch their rehab. A lot of it will depend on the progression and when they get to point of where you have a more educated idea” of whether they will be able and ready to pitch.
Wren said he talked to Smoltz recently “for quite a while. He’s happy with his progress.”
(I asked Wren again late this morning, as I wrote this blog, if any of those situations had changed, if any deal seemed imminent, if he’d had contact with Towers, etc, since we talked Tuesday night, and he said nothing had changed.)
Chipper’s contract: Veteran Chipper Jones isn’t signed beyond the 2009 season, and told me in October he expected to get together with his agent and Wren about a possible extension at some point in the offseason.
When I asked Frank about that this week, he said, “Our focus right now is trying to get our club put back together. If there’s anything we need to do with guys under contract, we’ll look at that once we have everything else in play.”
By the way, the Braves have six arbitration-eligible players: Omar Infante, Casey Kotchman, Jeff Francoeur, Kelly Johnson, Mike Gonzalez and Matt Diaz. The tender date is Dec. 12, and the Braves don’t appear to have any cases for non-tender consideration, like, say, Marcus Giles a few years ago.
Outfield targets: The Braves, of course, aren’t saying who they’re targeting in the power-hitting outfield market, but we do know their talks with the Cardinals about 37-homer man Ryan Ludwick aren’t dead.
Another one that we mentioned late in the 2008 season, Seattle free agent Raul Ibanez, has also drawn interest from the Braves. He’s 36, but has hit at least .280 with a .345 OBP for the past eight seasons and totaled at least 20 homers and 100 RBI for each of the past three seasons.
Great clubhouse guy, good character, fits the Braves’ mold in that regard, and wouldn’t command a long-term deal. He only made $5.5 mill last season and hit .293 with 43 doubles, 23 homers, 110 RBI and a .358 OBP, the fifth consecutive season with a plus-.350 OBP and seventh in a row with more than 30 doubles.
He’s solid, folks, and the Braves are one in a field of suitors that could include the Phillies, Mets, Cubs, Cardinals and Rangers, among others.
Diversions: First, The Sopranos and The Wire were put to rest at HBO, and now The Shield is coming to an end at FX. What promises to be a deliciously, impossibly tense 90-minute series finale next next. I don’t want it to end, man. It’s too good. What must we do to get a Vic Mackey spinoff? (Or do you folks believe that’s going to be impossible, that our very bad man is going to meet his maker in the finale? Oh, the drama.) And we’re also drawing to a season’s end with the excellent Sons of Anarchy, which better be brought back for a second season or else I’ll march on FX headquarters with a blow torch like the one they used to burn off the SOA tattoo from a banished member’s back earlier this season. All I can say is, 24 had better bring something fresh and real to the table after its ridiculously long sabbatical, or it’s going to pale next to what we’ve had on FX.
A tune: Listening to the Cash/Dylan bootleg that one of our denizens was kind enough to burn for me a while back. Never tire of this thing, and can’t believe they never released this as a proper album. It’s incredible.
Anyway, I’m on another Cash jag lately. Here’s another that J.R. wrote himself, which contains one of my favorite lines ever (“I met here accidentally in St. Paul, Minnesota”).
”BIG RIVER” by Johnny Cash
Now I taught the weeping willow how to cry,
And I showed the clouds how to cover up a clear blue sky.
And the tears that I cried for that woman are gonna flood you Big River.
Then I’m gonna sit right here until I die.
I met her accidentally in St. Paul, Minnesota.
And it tore me up every time I heard her drawl, Southern drawl.
Then I heard my dream was back Downstream cavortin’ in Davenport,
And I followed you, Big River, when you called.
Then you took me to St. Louis later on, down the river.
A freighter said she’s been here but she’s gone, boy, she’s gone.
I found her trail in Memphis, but she just walked up the block.
She raised a few eyebrows and then she went on down alone.
Now, won’t you batter down by Baton Rouge, River Queen, roll it on.
Take that woman on down to New Orleans, New Orleans.
Go on, I’ve had enough; dump my blues down in the gulf.
She loves you, Big River, more than me.
Now I taught the weeping willow how to cry, cry, cry
And I showed the clouds how to cover up a clear blue sky.
And the tears that I cried for that woman are gonna flood you Big River.
Then I’m gonna sit right here until I die.
Services »
Comments
By Steve
November 20, 2008 2:14 PM | Link to this
Hey DOB,
Great post!…This is/could be one of the most intersting ofseasons for the Braves in quite some time…I’d love to see Furcal or Renteria back in a Braves uniform if a deal for Escobar goes through for some pitching…which I think it will as well…Jesse the halliday situation is interesting…I think at this point in his career he wants to win and I don’t think that’s available for him in a Blue Jay uniform…but I would still like to see the Peavy deal happen! Fingers crossed
By Rev Buddy Greene
November 20, 2008 2:17 PM | Link to this
as good as Peavy is Halladay would be better he is a horse in the old school fashion. He completes what he starts so when he pitches its like an offday for the bullpen. I doubt Toronto would really trade him but if they did he would be EXPENSIVE.
By helopilot
November 20, 2008 2:18 PM | Link to this
Thanks for the update Dave!
By David O'Brien
November 20, 2008 2:21 PM | Link to this
Yeah�I was at games Two and Five of the Division series in �03, I think it was. I saw so many damn �Got Wood� signs I wanted to vomit all over myself.Don’t Trade Francoeur, Sheesh
Saw this post from other blog. True story: I bought one of those “We Got Wood” T-shirts from a vendor outside Wrigley the year that Wood was the toast of baseball, and I wore it into a Home Depot (I swear, not making this up). And I’m walking down an aisle and an old man came up to me and asked me for help finding 2 X 6 boards.
Kid you not.
By 18 Wheels of Love
November 20, 2008 2:22 PM | Link to this
Peterbilt
Peterbilt
Peavy/Sheets/JJ/Campy/Hanson
Furcal/Prado/Jones/Ludwick/McCann/Frenchy/Kotchman/Schafer
By Nocturnal Owl
November 20, 2008 2:24 PM | Link to this
Extend Chipper!!Thaanks for new blog!
By Efrim
November 20, 2008 2:26 PM | Link to this
Ibanez is a solid player. But, he is a career 268/322/411 against left handed pitching. Of course, he hit 305/368/497 in 220 plate appearences against them last season, so if the Braves think he can keep it up, go for it.
As far as the Peavy saga goes, keep Rohrbough and Locke out of it. No need to include them in my mind. Wren needs to stand firm with the Escobar, Hernandez, Morton, Boyer offer. Towers isn’t getting anything better than that.
By ric flair
November 20, 2008 2:28 PM | Link to this
DOB any chance the Braves take a look at Ben Sheets?
By Bubdylan
November 20, 2008 2:29 PM | Link to this
DOB, we need a new blog.
By Dan
November 20, 2008 2:31 PM | Link to this
With all this money to spend, if they are not willing to compete with the Yankees and other high spenders for AJ, where will the money go?
You are right, there are not that many legit front end of rotation guys. Peavy is one, Burnett is another (if healthy). Lowe…..not so much.
It is imperative to complete this trade, or sign AJ Burnett. Not signing AJ will make the Braves desperate, and might allow the Padres to get more than we want to give up.
By ppaddy123
November 20, 2008 2:33 PM | Link to this
So……..Adam Dunn isn’t a consideration?
By Dan
November 20, 2008 2:33 PM | Link to this
I would rather see the Braves sign Adam Dunn, rather than trade for Ludwick. Dunn is durable. Plus, you get to keep KJ.
By chris
November 20, 2008 2:34 PM | Link to this
Ibanez is a left handed hitter. do you think the braves will go after him in which that will create a middle of the lineup that consists of mcCann, Ibanez, kotchman_ (all three left handed hitters in the heart of the lineup)i dont know that would happen, and that bowman did mention that though braves officials like ibanez, they downside is that he is a left handed hitter and it almost seems like they cannot acquire a left handed hitter in the middle of the lineup with what their lineup looks like as of now
By Efrim
November 20, 2008 2:36 PM | Link to this
And I wouldn’t offer anything more than 2 years and 16 million for Ibanez……although I have a feeling he’ll; get more than that.
By Train Wreck Bystander
November 20, 2008 2:37 PM | Link to this
Since baseball news is slow…
DOB, you sure like the Fox shows; at least you mention them a lot. But I don’t remember you ever saying anything about Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles.
Since you brought TV into the blog today, I’ll ask: Ever seen it? Never seen it? Seen it, laughed at the knife-smuggling terminator in the pilot? Seen it, laughed and came back each week for Summer Glau anyways?
Adding Shirley Manson to the cast was a great move this year. She’s creepy in her role.
By BravesFanInRockies
November 20, 2008 2:37 PM | Link to this
DOB,
One of the Man in Black’s best songs, no question. It’s also been covered well by a bunch of people. Hard to mess up material that good.
Utley’s hip surgery is a shocker, but it may explain his late-season drop. Wonder if they’ll up their offer to Burrell?
By BravesFanInRockies
November 20, 2008 2:38 PM | Link to this
Bubdylan (2:29
By Hud20
November 20, 2008 2:39 PM | Link to this
So, if we trade for Peavy and sign Furcal, would we not be spending the same as keeping Escobar and going after CC? I definitely prefer Escobar over the next 5 years to Furcal and I love Peavy, but CC is an absolute innings eater and was dominant down the stretch.
By ncscoots
November 20, 2008 2:41 PM | Link to this
Sons of Anarchy, which better be brought back for a season season or I’ll march on FX headquarters with a torch
Exactly my feeling when David Milch killed Deadwood so he could bring us the joy of John From Cincinnati, or whatever the hell it was.
I couldn’t get the torch lit then, but Milch is dead to me now. Dead.
I’d say the guys at FX aren’t quite as stupid, so SOA should be safe. It’s a righteous show, no doubt.
By David O'Brien
November 20, 2008 2:41 PM | Link to this
ppaddy, who said that? I didn’t mention every possibility, simply because the Braves don’t provide me with a convenient list.
If a bunch of other options didn’t work out, I’m sure they’d consider him. But he’s expensive, strikes out a ton and is not a good defensive player. Of course, he also hits bombs. Lots of them. Gets on base a lot and hits bombs. Those are the two things he does, and does well. But those are the only two things.
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 20, 2008 2:44 PM | Link to this
Thanks for the new Blog, DOB! Great story about the “Got Wood?” T-Shirt! Too funny…
Bubdylan @ 2:29—
Haha! Good stuff.
By Nate
November 20, 2008 2:46 PM | Link to this
Ibanez is a horrible fielder, and while hit bat is steady, he’s hardly the fear inducing cleanup hitter one would prefer to have batting cleanup.
By David O'Brien
November 20, 2008 2:46 PM | Link to this
Train Wreck: Those are FX shows, not Fox. Big difference. They cuss and all that on FX shows. Much grittier fare. (By the way, yet another FX show, It’s Always Sunny in Philadelphia, is another of my favorites.)
I’ve never seen The Sarah Conner Chronicles, so can’t comment on it.
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 20, 2008 2:49 PM | Link to this
Whoops…I mean “We Got Wood”…not “Got Wood?”.
Sorry.
By Bobby's Cox
November 20, 2008 2:53 PM | Link to this
Nelson Cruz.
By Lee in S GA
November 20, 2008 2:54 PM | Link to this
You figure a decent spring showing by Schafer and he is starting in CF on opening day. Anderson has to be in the dog house by not playing winter ball. If this is the case what about Diaz, Blanco and Anderson? I had rather see Diaz at the plate but I had rather see one of the other 2 defensively as the 4th outfielder.
By BravesFanInRockies
November 20, 2008 2:56 PM | Link to this
Bubdylan,
Meant to use a smiley emoticon type thing in my earlier post and it didn’t work.
Anywho — nicely done. McFann beat me to it.
By TennesseePaul
November 20, 2008 2:56 PM | Link to this
All this talk about McCann’s off season conditioning program… is he still doing Yoga? Perhaps he should try thi chi. It’d come in handy for the flexability, strength and in the event any bench clearing brawls break out.
By TennesseePaul
November 20, 2008 2:57 PM | Link to this
tai chi, I mean.
By Don't Trade Franceour, Sheesh
November 20, 2008 2:58 PM | Link to this
Haha, DOB, that’s pretty funny…
…but also not funny! I hope you don’t still wear that shirt (or just leave out he “r”)! If you were a Cubs fan-and if you are, just don’t tell me for posterity-it would turn my world upside down.
If “The Atlanta Braves” was a book, you’d be the author. I can’t take another Braves voice with a Chicago slant (e.g. Chip)!
By Bob
November 20, 2008 2:59 PM | Link to this
Vigilantes of Love playing at the 40 Watt tonight for first time in 6 years!! OK got that out of the way…
Braves need Peavy. That’s all there is to it. None of the other pitchers available are even close to him.
My only concern about Peavy though is what about that road ERA. From what I remember reading it’s like a full run higher than the home ERA. Which makes you wonder if he’s only a top-tier pitcher in San Diego.
By AZBravoFan
November 20, 2008 3:00 PM | Link to this
I think Dunn would be just as frustrating as watching Andruw. Minus the amazing defensive plays. And if they were lucky enough to get to the post-season I gotta believe those bombs would dry up in a hurry with the high level of pitching. And even if he were to get walked, who’s gonna drive him in? Frenchy?
By DAP
November 20, 2008 3:01 PM | Link to this
bubdylan your 2:29—-good one!
chris dont assume that if we get a left handed hitter for left field we’d have to have LF, mccann, kotchman back to back. we will have to see how the rest of the lineup shapes up, for example, if we dont trade escobar, what keeping him from hitting 6th? if frenchy comes back around, what keeps him from hitting 6th?
By Roman Gal
November 20, 2008 3:03 PM | Link to this
Lew, I wish it would just go ahead and get cold here. I think it’s close to 70 here today. But on Tuesday it was in the 20’s. The uncertainty is…well, annoying.
McFann, thanks pal.
By Bobby's Cox
November 20, 2008 3:04 PM | Link to this
i still can figure out why the braves would open up a big hole in the middle of the infield in the Peavy trade, especially with so many promising young pitchers waiting in the wings.
With that said, I like that Wren is laying low. That package for Peavy was well more than enough for San Diego. Let that sink into the mind of Towers, and as time passes, maybe Wren can pull the trade with the same package or lesser. I can’t see Wren giving SD more than that last offer.
It will be the Padres that will be forced to bend as time goes by.
By PreacherJ
November 20, 2008 3:05 PM | Link to this
Just FYI FWren is starting a chat on braves.com for you multitaskers multibloggers out there…
DOB, from a first time poster… I’m with you on the Halladay news… just doesn’t seem likely… but since we are all speculating, any ideas what their needs would be or what areas they would be looking for? Just curious
By world-B
November 20, 2008 3:05 PM | Link to this
SOA, I’m pretty sure, has been picked up for next season. It is great. The Shield, over the last two seasons, has been the best thing on TV in quite some time. Dialogue, direction, writing, acting, all first-class. I’ll join in your mourning come next Tuesday around 11 p.m. Characters will die, for sure. Dutch could be one of them
By Eware
November 20, 2008 3:07 PM | Link to this
I would support an Adam Dunn signing. I know he strikesout a ridiculous amount, but I think he would really protect Chipper. Pitching around Chipper to get to Dunn would be a huge mistake.
Here’s what I’m thinking: Chipper batted over .400 with Tex behind him, because he got pitches to hit. Without Tex, his batting average decreased, as did his power. I figure part of that had to do with pitchers not having to throw him strikes. It’s amazing that he was still able to hit .364 without a consistent huge threat behind him. I would consider McCann a huge threat, but he misses games as a catcher.
So, if we could get Dunn for a reasonable (yes, I know its baseball) price, I would support signing him. We need to take advantage of Chipper while we have him.
Plus, Dunn hits bombs and draws a lot of walks. Would he be any more of a liability than when we threw Norton out in left?
Great blog, DOB. Thanks for putting up with all of us.
By DannyFish
November 20, 2008 3:12 PM | Link to this
Hey DOB
Thanks for the blog!
If the Braves are able to get a deal done for Peavy finally then what are the chances that we still try to put together a package for Halliday should the opportunity arise? I know that it would cost a LOT for both of those to happen but Frank Wren has said that he’d like to add two pitchers this offseason and that would probably be the best 1-2 punch in baseball if we could pull it off.
By ppaddy123
November 20, 2008 3:16 PM | Link to this
By David O’Brien November 20, 2008 2:41 PM ppaddy, who said that? I didn’t mention every possibility, simply because the Braves don’t provide me with a convenient list. If a bunch of other options didn’t work out, I’m sure they’d consider him. But he’s expensive, strikes out a ton and is not a good defensive player. Of course, he also hits bombs. Lots of them. Gets on base a lot and hits bombs. Those are the two things he does, and does well. But those are the only two things.
Good points………but let me ask you this: Is Ryan Howard a defensive liability for the Phillies? Does he strike out a ton? Now I’m not saying Dunn is the same player as Howard, but sometimes their offense will FAR surpass their defensive abilities. I just think putting that “Masher” between Chipper and McCann, with a resurgent Francoeur behind McCann would be a formidable lineup.
By Jgator
November 20, 2008 3:18 PM | Link to this
The episode of SOA last night was as one of the best shows Ive seen on TV in a long time. Very well done with a huge shocker close to the end that will change the direction of the whole show. I’ll go with you DOB if the try not to bring it back!
By Hiawatha Terrell Wade
November 20, 2008 3:18 PM | Link to this
Man, I know we are all getting antsy waiting for Peavy or Burnett or whoever our first domino is gonna be, but Dave, you’ve gotta be going out of your mind.
This blog has taken off to the degree where you are all of a sudden expected to produce every three days or so. Heck, the number of comments crash the site when you don’t. But with nothing going on but Hanson and Flowers…
You’ve had to dig deep into your bag of tricks this past 10 days or so. Same comments from commenters, one trade proposal bleeding into the next. Boyer, Locke, Gorkys, Schaefer, Fee, Fi, Fo, Fum.
Worst of all the long wait has your loyal denizens getting a little batty…assuming Greinke can be had for Francoeur?…Burnett is somehow safer than Peavy?…Flowers is not blocked?…Peavy for Prado?…Peavy is Teixeira?…Sign Ken Griffey?…wtf?????
Braves fans are treating this offseason like virgins. Don’t chomp at the bit. Take a deep breath, let the magic happen, then reflect. That’s the way to go.
Dave, I usually envy your job. What a great gig…you get to cover professional baseball and write for a living, which sure beats the mines. But I’ve gotta say, these past ten days or so, as Towers/Wren/Baseball Gods hold us hostage…I feel for you man.
By preacher J
November 20, 2008 3:19 PM | Link to this
DOB,
First time poster on here… I’m with you on the Halladay discussion just doesn’t seem likely he would be available… but since we are speculating, in the event that he were to be available, any idea on what the Jays would be looking for in return? I’m sure it would something comparable to the Peavy deal but are there certain areas where they have needs??
By Bubdylan
November 20, 2008 3:19 PM | Link to this
BravesFanInRockies I figured it out, and thanks! )
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
November 20, 2008 3:20 PM | Link to this
The man in black, Big River:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBLgtKVwptA
By Scott
November 20, 2008 3:21 PM | Link to this
DannyFish…
not probably, there is no doubt that would be the best 1-2 punch in baseball, but there ain’t no way that could happen!
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 20, 2008 3:22 PM | Link to this
Roman Gal—
You’re welcome! Where are you going to school?
BFIR Meant to use a smiley emoticon type thing in my earlier post and it didn’t work.
I hate it when that happens.
Eware I would consider McCann a huge threat, but he misses games as a catcher.
So true. That’s why I like him better as a number five hitter.
By PreacherJ
November 20, 2008 3:22 PM | Link to this
oops… sorry for the double post… warned you i was new
Anyway… Wren just reaffirmed they have moved in another direction again on his chat… maybe it is just posturing and things have just not been public but it was interesting
By Seymour1948
November 20, 2008 3:22 PM | Link to this
DOB,
With all the discussion about potential pitching options, I haven’t heard much about Tazawa. I read that Tazawa couldn’t make any decisions until after Nov. 24, but do you know anything about where the Braves stand in relationship to other teams looking at him?
By ppaddy123
November 20, 2008 3:22 PM | Link to this
By AZBravoFan November 20, 2008 3:00 PM And even if he were to get walked, who’s gonna drive him in? Frenchy?
Certainly not the Francoeur of 2008. But, if you remember, it wasn’t so long ago the guy was one of the top hitters with 2 outs and runners in scoring position. Personally, I think we will all see a much different Francoeur this year. At least, I hope we do!
By DAP
November 20, 2008 3:23 PM | Link to this
DOB what the heck are you gonna blog about once the peavy trade goes down?
By Efrim
November 20, 2008 3:25 PM | Link to this
Bobby’s Cox
i still can figure out why the braves would open up a big hole in the middle of the infield in the Peavy trade, especially with so many promising young pitchers waiting in the wings.
Thing is, while they are all promising, Tommy Hanson is the only one who will probably make an appearence in ATL during 2009. Also, from the group of Cole Rohrbough, Jeff Locke, Randall Delgado, and Julio Teheran(best arms in the system not named Hanson), there is only 28 innings pitched above Low A baseball. They are all probably 2 years away from contributing, barring a huge year from either Rohrbough or Locke - which you really can’t count on. Not to mention, they’ll probably struggle initially. So, the Braves really do need starting pitching for 2009 and beyond.
By leland
November 20, 2008 3:27 PM | Link to this
DOB—Johnny Cash singing “And I Still Miss Someone,” and you don’t even mention Emmylou Harris’ version? Are you crazy? Your pal, Leland
By rammerjammer
November 20, 2008 3:28 PM | Link to this
I was in favor of getting Peavy before I was against it.
Other than Chipper, we are a very young team. Why are we so insistent on 2009, like it’s a make-or-break year?
We have a terrific nucleus of young talent and a minor league roster that is apparently the envy of many.
Folks, we are built for long-term success…providing we don’t gut it for a longshot pennant run in 2009.
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 20, 2008 3:28 PM | Link to this
Bubdylan and thanks! )
Haha! Good one!
By Robert S
November 20, 2008 3:28 PM | Link to this
DannyFish, the Braves can acquire Peavy or Halladay, but not both, as both would have to arrive through trades. The Braves are simply not going to strip their farm system bare for that. Think long term, my man. We need guys like Flowers, Freeman, Medlen, and Hanson down the road, and not playing for other teams.
The chances of Halladay being traded are far less than Peavy, anyway. I say if the Braves get Peavy they’ll go after a free agent pitcher like Lowe or Burnett or a lower tier guy like Wolf or Perez. But Halladay (if he’s even available), not a chance.
By ppaddy123
November 20, 2008 3:29 PM | Link to this
Speaking of excellent TV shows, does anyone know if or when “Breaking Bad” will return?
By Flustered Fan
November 20, 2008 3:29 PM | Link to this
DOB, If Yunel is dealt away, won’t that leave a big whole at shortstop? Is there any younger options that could fit the bill here? It would be neat if San Diego would throw in Kalil Greene. That would pretty much remedy that. What’s the 411 on that?
By Steve from OH
November 20, 2008 3:34 PM | Link to this
Coach, other than being fast, what possible upsides over Schafer does he have? You’re placing way, way, way too much emphasis on speed, bro.
By Josh P.
November 20, 2008 3:34 PM | Link to this
hmm…I see a gem of a DOB sarcastic comment in 3…2…1…!!
By Efrim
November 20, 2008 3:34 PM | Link to this
And in regards to my 3:25, Delgado and Teheran are further away than 2 years.
By David O'Brien
November 20, 2008 3:38 PM | Link to this
Good points���but let me ask you this: Is Ryan Howard a defensive liability for the Phillies? Does he strike out a ton? Now I�m not saying Dunn is the same player as Howard,…ppaddy
I’m sure glad you’re not comparing Dunn to Howard, since Howard has a .279 career average and has averaged 144 RBI the past three seasons, while Dunn has a .247 career average (lower each the past three seasons) and has averaged just below 100 RBI the past three seasons.
By DannyFish
November 20, 2008 3:38 PM | Link to this
Scott & Robert S
I guess I could have been a little more specific with my question. I was just wondering if it would be worth it to possibly give up some of the “untouchables” if it meant having a legit shot at getting to the WS within the next year or two. It comes down to mortgaging the future and giving it our best shot now or building within (which is the traditional Braves way to go) and planning for the long strech. I know it’s not very concievable, I guess with the lack of news I am just having a little bit of fun thinking through ANY possible scenario.
By David O'Brien
November 20, 2008 3:39 PM | Link to this
Flustered: Good question.
By Bubdylan
November 20, 2008 3:42 PM | Link to this
McFann Thanks. Hey, your boy is lookin’ lean and mean these days.
By Kudzu Wildcat
November 20, 2008 3:43 PM | Link to this
I see where the KC Royals, who finished 75-87, or three games better than the Braves, have traded two relief pitchers for a First Baseman, Lamb of Florida and a Center Fielder, Coco Crisp of Boston. They picked up two productive players to help their team, however, the Braves have done NOTHING.
Maybe the Braves have the wrong GM, as the former Asst GM of the Braves, Dayton Moore, is the one pulling the strings at KC.
I wonder if Wren can pull the trigger on a deal, or just talk about deals. Nothing equals Zero.
By eddy
November 20, 2008 3:45 PM | Link to this
from the signonsandiego.com on 11/16/08 “jake Peavy was in Puerto Rico last week with Hoffman, Young and several other ballplayer friends, including the Brewers’ Ryan Braun and the Yankees’ Derek Jeter. Another friend called Peavy to ask if he had heard that Peavy soon might be dealt to the Braves.
Peavy’s response left one person present to conclude that Peavy, whose consent is needed for a trade, will not be going to Atlanta anytime soon, even if the Padres and Braves were to agree to a trade. “I think he wants to go to Chicago,” the friend said.
see were it saids even if the Padres and Braves were to agree to a trade. “I think he wants to go to Chicago,” the friend said.
well thats says it all he whats to be a cubbie if altlanta deal was so great why is he still in san diego cubs will get it done go cubbies
By Fan-heart (FANcoeur is an impostor!)
November 20, 2008 3:47 PM | Link to this
So much for Ryan Dempster…
Ditto for AJ Burnett…
Seriously why are we trying to sign a 35-year-old as our ‘top-notch starter’…oh so he could help the rotation…WRONG
we should be behind Peavy again. Kyle Lohse is a better option than Randy Wolf or Jon Garland. Who’s next, Frank, Jaime Moyer??? Randy Johnson?? Oh, let’s get Schilling too so we can have our problems solved. He could join Smoltz, Glavine, Lowe, and Hampton for the oldest rotation in the league 2009.
By Flustered Fan
November 20, 2008 3:47 PM | Link to this
DOB,this might work to the Braves advantage. If Towers can’t move Peavy,he might have to concede Greene as part of the deal. He may be getting backed into a corner and will do anything to move Peavy. That way, the Braves would have a good caliber of pitcher in Peavy and Greene to boot. Wishful thinking, though.
By Joe M
November 20, 2008 3:47 PM | Link to this
Poor Escobar tried to bring some spunk to this lifeless team and they’re ready to throw him to the wolves. It is like Houdini hypnotized the blog in wanting Peavy. If this team has the same sort of injury luck it had last year, Peavy won’t make it out of spring training before requiring surgery.
By spotts
November 20, 2008 3:49 PM | Link to this
*DOB, *Is McCann’s weight loss going to affect his power numbers at all?
By Hillbilly
November 20, 2008 3:53 PM | Link to this
DOB
The ending of that episode of Sons of Anarchy lastnight made me want to go hug my wife and kids. What can you say besides, “Damn it?”
By Bayou Brave
November 20, 2008 3:55 PM | Link to this
I think Wren is being smart by calling Towers’ bluff. And that’s really all I think is- a bluff. The vast majority of sports writers agree that the Braves have offered the Padres the best package of players to date. And since the Cubs re-upped Dempster, I find it hard to believe that they would sweeten their most recent offer. Some bloggers just need to chill the ** out. It’s Nov. 20th. There’s still plenty of time.
Escobar is a good young shortstop, but Peavy is a great starting pitcher in his prime. Throwing in Reyes or Morton and Hernandez is a fair trade, and Towers knows it. He’s just stalling in the hopes that Wren will get nervous that Peavy will open up his list of acceptable teams from 5 to 10 or so, and that Wren will sweeten the deal. But Peavy doesn’t HAVE to do that.
Peavy’s the one with the most power. His salary is guaranteed for the next 4 or 5 years, AND if he doesn’t want to play for a particular team no one, not even Towers, can make him accept a trade.
Wren is the one with the second most power. The Braves have more talented young (inexpensive) players to offer than any other team that Peavy will accept a trade to. Due to Peavy’s no-trade power, there are only a handful of teams that the Braves have to outbid. And most of the other 4 teams have bigger needs than a starting pitcher.
Towers has the least power. The owner needs to cut payroll this year, so Peavy must go. Peavy has dictated to the Padres that he will only play for about 5 teams. Towers can play all the games he wants, spread all the rumors he wants, and play hardball with rival GMs, but before next season he will have to accept the best offer from one of those five teams.
By Knuckle Sandwich
November 20, 2008 3:55 PM | Link to this
ppaddy, so true. Breaking Bad is one of the best shows on TV. It gets over shadowed by Mad Men, unfortunately.
Flustered…Kalil Green…are you F%@#ing kidding me???
By chopper2chipper
November 20, 2008 3:56 PM | Link to this
Flustered,
The Braves are not high on Greene. DOB has written something to that extent in at least two blogs. There are many better options out there.
By Flustered Fan
November 20, 2008 3:57 PM | Link to this
Yeah, Joe M, that same thing concerns me about Peavy. It also concerns me that his heart really isn’t in it to be playing with the Braves.
By Bubdylan
November 20, 2008 3:58 PM | Link to this
David, Frank Wren is sounding a lot like he’s really done with Peavy, short of saying “no way no how”, on this chat he’s got going.
I know, I know, but….
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
November 20, 2008 4:04 PM | Link to this
Steve, you are becoming a complete egghead.
Just for reference, I’m a Whitey Herzog disciple. Twenty-six years ago, Herzog proved that it is possible to build a WS Champion baseball team around pitching, defense and speed. The 1982 Cardinals hit 67 HR’s and stole 200 bases.That team had an ERA of 3.37 and three gold gloves.
Speed kills and Herzog proved it.
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 20, 2008 4:07 PM | Link to this
Bubdylan—
You’re welcome!
your boy is lookin’ lean and mean these days.
He sure is! They got a piece up on the “Official Site” now. It’s along the same lines as the one Ms. Rogers wrote last week…slightly differ’nt twist, though.
spotts Is McCann’s weight loss going to affect his power numbers at all?
Hopefully not in a bad way. But if it does, I s’pose his wife’s gonna hafta act like Aunt Bea when Barney had to be over a certain weight to pass his physical…
I’m sorry…I realize you were addressing DOB and not me.
By Shaun
November 20, 2008 4:09 PM | Link to this
I’m going to say it: Howard has been the better player the past three seasons, but not much difference between Ryan Howard and Adam Dunn in 2008.
Dunn got on base more often and Dunn’s slugging wasn’t far off from Howard’s.
Here’s a huge reason why Howard drove in more runs:
Most runners on base when they came to the plate:
558 — Justin Morneau
515 — Garrett Atkins
508 — David Wright
503 — Mark Teixeira
498 — Carlos Beltran
494 — Jeff Francoeur
483 — Ryan Howard
480 — Carlos Delgado
Most Runners in Scoring Position:
268 — Justin Morneau
267 — James Loney
267 — David Wright
261 — Carlos Beltran
259 — Ryan Howard
Think about it, Dunn batted with 408 runners on base versus 483 for Howard, yet Dunn only drove in 46 fewer runs. Just plain dumb to judge a hitter only by batting average and RBI.
…that should spark some controversy.
By Flustered Fan
November 20, 2008 4:11 PM | Link to this
Alright, I’m obviously missing something on Greene. Someone please fill me in. I don’t blog everyday so I really don’t know.
By Billy Walsh
November 20, 2008 4:12 PM | Link to this
How about Jose Guillen? He is very talented, is in the last year of his deal (so he would probably be motivated and would be on his best behavior) and I’m sure KC would love to dump his 12 million dollar salary. 20+ hr and 90+ rbi would be a nice addition. Hey DOB, is it over for Vinie Chase? Great season of entourage.
By Mitchie-san
November 20, 2008 4:14 PM | Link to this
Wren saying anything good?
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 20, 2008 4:18 PM | Link to this
Shaun—
Where’d you get the info on the RISP when certain players came up to bat?
Thanks!
…that should spark some controversy.
It sure did last off-season! What was that…January? Sheesh! The Blog was divided against itself!
; )
By spotts
November 20, 2008 4:19 PM | Link to this
Haha, thanks McFann…didn’t matter who answered, I was just looking for an answer. I kept reading about him losing weight, and I’m a little scared his power will drop off. He pretty much IS our power right now…
And I wouldn’t mind seeing Dunn in Atlanta. We haven’t had a bomber since Andruw in ‘05. You have to complain about his inordinate amount of Ks, but his OBP has always been around .400, so the Ks shouldn’t matter. He’s getting on base more than a lot of people.
By PopeVanIII
November 20, 2008 4:20 PM | Link to this
DOB
What are the chances the Braves could put together a package for Ludwick that doesn’t include Escobar or KJ?
Would the Braves consider dealing KJ for Ludwick if they signed Furcal to replace Escobar?
Basically, what I’m asking is, is it possible for the Braves to acquire both Peavy and Ludwick this offseason?
By Bubdylan
November 20, 2008 4:20 PM | Link to this
Mitchie-san, I’m not seeing anything from Wren I’d call good. But… who knows how much is close to the vest. He did say the NTC was not the snag on Peavy. “We never got that far.” Also dismissed Escobar being aggressively shopped. He finally even got a little short about it: “Escobar is our SS.”
By Efrim
November 20, 2008 4:21 PM | Link to this
Flustered Fan
I believe I remember reading DOB saying the Braves weren’t high on Khalil Greene. But maybe they might change their mind if it means taking on some cash so that they don’t give up too many prospects.
By Dan
November 20, 2008 4:21 PM | Link to this
The Wren chat is a “crock of Sh%t”.
They are only answering questions from about 5 people. I bet they are all sitting in the same room.
By Bubdylan
November 20, 2008 4:22 PM | Link to this
Flustered, as I understand it, it is the Braves who don’t want Greene.
By ccrider
November 20, 2008 4:23 PM | Link to this
I know before I write this that everyone is going to think I have drunk the Kool-Aid. I think it becomes more and more logical to do the following: Match the Yankees offer to Sabathia 23.25 mil a year for 6 years(I think he might take it to stay in the NL), work out the trade for Peavy(find a compromise on the last piece). Sign Renteria at $4 and use Lillibridge as a late inning defensive replacement, Sign Jim Edmonds and Rocco Baldelli to 1 year contracts totaling no more than $10 to play left and give Schafer a break from left handed pitching in his adjustment year. They both hit well respectively against righties(Edmonds) and lefties(Baldelli), Sign Ohman, sign Hampton and Glavine(if it is determined he can still pitch), sign a BUC (H. Blanco, Toby Hall) I know all the arguments about no team ever won a World Series with 1 player earning more than 20% of the team salary, but I believe the Braves were one of the few teams to go from worst to first in the history of baseball. The reason I think this would work is because of those young prospects coming along in the next few years. Chipper will probably retire after 3 years, Hudson will move on or take a discount to stay. We can replace KJ, Franceour, Kotchman, LF, SS with players on the roster or in the farm system as they become too expensive. Prado, D. Hernandez, Travis Jones for KJ, Heyward for Franceour, Freeman or Flowers for Kotchman with the other playing leftfield and either Lillibridge or Brandon Hicks replaing Renteria. Meanwhile, Jurjjens, Hanson, Medlin and all the other really good pitching prospects will be cheap. Real expensive players mixed with real cheap players! The key is payroll balance and quality. Payroll 2009: CC $23.5, Peavy $11, Hampton $5, Jurjjens $.5, Hanson $.5, Glavine $5, Total $44. Bullpen Smoltz $5, Soriano $6, Gonzalez $3, Moylan $.5, Campillo $.5, Ohman $3.5, Acosta $.5= Total $19 Lineup: Schafer $.5, KJ $2, Chipper $11, Edmonds/Baldelli $10, McCann $3.5, Franceour $2, Kotchman $2, Renteria $4= Total $33 Bench: Infante $2, Prado $.5, BUC $1.5 Lillibridge $.5= Total $4.5 Team Payroll Including $6 for Tim Hudson = $106.5 Sign short term contracts for position players as the prospects are blended in and mature. This team would be pitching deep(Reyes, Medlin, Redmond at AAA Campillo in the pen for starters, Marek, L Valdez, Kimbrell and Medlin for the pen) and the lineup would be solid agaginst lefthanders and righthanders with a decent bench.
By Lou Vales
November 20, 2008 4:24 PM | Link to this
I’ll take an Italian oath(I’m half Italian so it’s valid) I swear on the LIVES of my family—- THIS is my last post and I won’t post under other names!!! I’ve tried to bring some reason to this board and have been ridiculed. I’ve tried to make people aware that Jake Peavy is way beyond Small Potatoes in this environment. This was a HISTORIC DAY in the market for too many reasons to elaborate. I’ll just give you one. Citigroup closed below $5.00 a share. Why does that matter. If a stock falls under 5 it can no longer be held by institutions or pension funds. Do you understand that??? And NO!!!! I hold no Citi stock. Citi could touch 2.00 a share, the insurance companies are touching new lows with their viability being questioned. Now you guys continue to make fun of me for drawing a correlation between a systemic financial failure and a MLB season. Feel free, BUT when deflation finally rears its ugly head you will harkem back to the voice who tried to tell you BLANK Jake Peavy and these other clowns and JUST MAYBE take a close look at some times they will be talking about 100 years from now. And they won’t be talking about AJ, Sheets or Greinke. Good Luck!!! I’ll be here reading and drawing some well needed humor every night. Good Night Scott Boras. Wherever You Are.
By geauxbraves2000
November 20, 2008 4:29 PM | Link to this
You never know, with the weight McCann has lost, maybe a few more stolen bases in his future :)
I was on the McCann bandwagon when I first saw him in ATL, I could tell he was going to be a force.
Geaux Braves!!
By ncscoots
November 20, 2008 4:31 PM | Link to this
Speed kills and Herzog proved it.
…in a big ballpark with AstroTurf, in a season where the high for HR was under 40 and very few teams scored 750 runs.
Try that same strategy in today’s game, and it won’t be the other guy who gets killed.
By Flustered Fan
November 20, 2008 4:33 PM | Link to this
Well, I was just researching on Greene and his numbers weren’t too impressive this past season. But, he’s still younger than Renteria or Furcal, and you never know when he might heat back up. I guess I’m just saying the Braves shouldn’t shoot themselves in the foot by giving up a decent (though moody) shortstop.
By BB FAN
November 20, 2008 4:36 PM | Link to this
Shaun,
You are again not understanding the runners on base compared to runs batted in. Howard drives in ~ 30 % of runners on, Dunn only ~ 24.5 % of runners on. You are saying “Think about it, Dunn batted with 408 runners on base versus 483 for Howard, yet Dunn only drove in 46 fewer runs.”
That means that Howard drove in 46 baserunners of the 75 more that were on base for him.
Dunn would likely only drive in 18 more runners if he had the extra 75 men on base. That is 24.5% of the 75 more men. That’s a total of 118 for Dunn compared to Howards 146 (if they both had 483 men on base).
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 20, 2008 4:36 PM | Link to this
You’re welcome Spotts! Always happy to oblige. I have to admit, I’ve been a little nervous about that myself. (But I’ve found that I’m kind of worrywart. It cann be a little ridiculous at times.)
But I don’t think we cann be blamed…I mean, after what happened last year with Francoeur. Though there’s a big difference between the two; Francoeur admitted that he hardly hit at all last off-season. Kinda hard to get used to hitting with a new build if you wait till Spring Training to do it. McCann’s gonna start hitting with his Dad on Christmas (family tradition).
I think it would be cool to have a big thumper like Dunn. I’m a little leery of him for some reason, though…maybe it’s ‘cause I haven’t looked at his situational stats. But I’ve wanted one of those type home run hitters since AJ dipped off.
By Flustered Fan
November 20, 2008 4:37 PM | Link to this
I was just wondering, just wondering, mind you, why the Pads want take Johnson, then Prado could take over at 2nd. That would alleviate some problems. We’d get to keep Esco and still have a 2nd baseman.
By Josh P.
November 20, 2008 4:39 PM | Link to this
So ends the Lou Vales era…and nothing of value was lost.
By stynes
November 20, 2008 4:40 PM | Link to this
Seeing the list of most ABs with runners on or in scoring position, etc. made me think… Is there a stat that incorporates that kind of a factor? There’s gotta be - I’m just not familiar with it. What’s the story there?
I’ve seen the % of runners driven in with a man on 3rd and less that 2 outs, that kinda thing. Is there like an RBI %, though? Maybe RBIs / (ABs + runners on) or something? To weight it heavier toward more RBIs you could then multiple by RBIs or something. Just thinking aloud.
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 20, 2008 4:41 PM | Link to this
geauxbraves2000—
There could be more steals! He’s been running three times a week!
I was on the McCann bandwagon when I first saw him in ATL
Good for you! I’m a little embarrassed to say that…um…I wasn’t…
But in ‘05 I didn’t know a whole lot about Baseball…I was still learning!
By Efrim
November 20, 2008 4:43 PM | Link to this
Flustered Fan
It’s an interesting thought. It all depends on the costs of the free agent shortstops. I can’t imagine the Braves want to give Furcal a 4 year contract. Also, I’m not too sure the Braves would be ecstatic to pay big dollars for Orlando Cabrera. But, it’s quite early though. The first domino has to fall(Peavy) before we start to feel out the other Braves moves this offseason. At least that is the way I am approaching it.
By rammerjammer
November 20, 2008 4:46 PM | Link to this
You know, I’m gonna miss ol’ Lou Vales. You never knew where those rants were going. Sometimes, in the midst of the capital letters, there were pearls of wisdom.
But not usually.
By Braves Bailout
November 20, 2008 4:47 PM | Link to this
Vales, Do you really promise? Just got reminded I’m down 62,000 on Citi and I even have begun to sweat a variable annuity I have with a large insurer. Please stay away. You have no idea what a strong #1 starter can contribute to peace of mind. While I understand your fraustration with our silliness. It is OUR silliness. Why don’t you apply to CNBC and do a segment related to market and impact on sports/ I bet they aren’t interested either. That’s why you have ESPN and another network that actually has an idiot like John Salley in a starring role.
By Bobby's Cox
November 20, 2008 4:47 PM | Link to this
I hear you flustered fan.
They’ve said to want pitching….throw in medlin, and jojo or redmond, take out escobar, and subsitute with Johnson. That would alleviate a lot of problems.
By Mr J
November 20, 2008 4:50 PM | Link to this
Lou Vales,
I actually have some sympathy for your positions. They come across as over the top, but I think they are valid concerns.
But remember, when the Empire crumbles, bread and circuses (circi?) are the last things to go. I dearly love baseball, but it is definitely part of the circus.
By JimD
November 20, 2008 4:50 PM | Link to this
Twenty-six years ago, Herzog proved that it is possible to build a WS Champion baseball team around pitching, defense and speed. The 1982 Cardinals hit 67 HR’s and stole 200 bases.That team had an ERA of 3.37 and three gold gloves.
Speed kills and Herzog proved it. Coach
Yes, and 26 years ago, almost every team (including Herzogs teams - St Louis and KC) played in cavernous stadiums with artificial turf. This was kind of like a return to the dead ball era of the early 20th century - Shoeless Joe and company.
Now, the game is back to being played on grass in smaller parks. Don’t forget, parks with fences closer to home plate also have smaller power alleys and less room to cover in the outfield. Speed is not the premium it once was defensively. And offensively the “hitters parks” place more of a premium on hitting the extra base hit … stealing bases is less important.
Honestly, to me, the new game is a little more boring. Small ball is more fun to watch. I was a big fan of Billy Martin and Billy-Ball. But the times have changed. The game is no longer built around speed.
By TennesseePaul
November 20, 2008 4:55 PM | Link to this
Howard drives in ~ 30 % of runners on, Dunn only ~ 24.5 % of runners on
This also has something to do with batting average. Not the most favorite stat by some. But it is important. Having a guy at third and drawing a walk doesn’t drive in a run. But a hit would. And the hit would also improve the on base percentage. Batting average isn’t the end all be all of baseball but it is important.
Getting a hit is a more productive means of out-avoidance than drawing a walk.
That should throw gas on the fire.
By Flustered Fan
November 20, 2008 4:56 PM | Link to this
They also have to have a back-up plan for a 3rd baseman. Chipper’s good and all, but, almost like clock work, he ends up on the DL. Man, I’d hate to have to be a GM right now.
By BravesFanInRockies
November 20, 2008 4:58 PM | Link to this
Flustered,
The Pads want Yunel and not KJ. I think the Pads would rather try to trade Greene (who’s despite decent power production will be paid $6.5mm a year, gets on base at a terrible rate, and is a bit of a head case) and then plug Yunel in at SS, where he’ll command a much lower salary for several more years.
KJ’s salary will start escalating faster than Yunel’s, and the Pads look like they’re going to be a very low payroll team for several years.
By Rico
November 20, 2008 4:59 PM | Link to this
DOB, any legs to the story about Ted Turner wanting to buy back the Bravos? How long do you anticipate that Liberty Media would otherwise want to hang onto to the club before they sell?
Your fellow stogie-smoking, James McMurtry fan in Athens.
By THE BEAR
November 20, 2008 5:03 PM | Link to this
Wren made a couple of interesting statements.
In response to a question about Escobar he said, “Escobar is our Shortstop”
About KJ. “Johnson is a natural shortstop who we changed to an outfielder and then brought back at second and he is improving dramatically with his play at that position.”
Note: I am paraphrasing both but they are close to actual quotes.
By Carollina Coot
November 20, 2008 5:08 PM | Link to this
Vales, I’ve actually heard you on the radio and you never talk about this stuff. Of course in the Greenville/Clemson market nobody would understand it anyway and if it doesn’t relate to Clemson football nobody cares. Do enjoy your rants on Bobby Bowden. Those are great. Did Tommy ever give you a hard time about those? Try calling Cramer maybe he will listen. Nobody here cares.
By BravesFanInRockies
November 20, 2008 5:11 PM | Link to this
TennPaul,
Believe it or not, according to one report a big reason the A’s acquired Matt Holliday is because of his batting average. Beane has filled the A’s roster with lots of players who get on base a lot or hit for power, but not many who combine either with a high batting average. So it turns out that Moneyball isn’t the be-all and end-all of the A’s SOP. Fascinating.
By Flustered Fan
November 20, 2008 5:13 PM | Link to this
Well Bear, I pray you’re right…also Rico, I hope you are also right about Ted wanting to buy the Braves back. That would make the Braves the Braves again. My fingers and toes are crossed on both of these.
By Nate in Maine
November 20, 2008 5:14 PM | Link to this
DOB I have aquestion for you. I have heard through sports radios in new england that the redsox trading for a catcher. My question is What about the Braves trading Tyler Flowers to the redsox for like Justin Masterson or Bucholz or Jon Lester?. Any three of those guys would help us out alot.
By MattyRoss
November 20, 2008 5:15 PM | Link to this
DOB re: your 3:39. Laughed. Out loud. The pacing provided by me scrolling up to see what it was worked perfectly. Well played, sir.
By raindawg722
November 20, 2008 5:20 PM | Link to this
I absolutely agree that it’s much more likely that a deal is getting done when teams are talking to each other in private and not through the press. That’s why I was a little shocked when Wren came out publicly and said that the Braves were turning their focus to other needs besides the Peavy trade. Wren could have just told Towers privately, “Here’s our best deal. Let us know if and when you’re interested. In the mean time, we’re moving on.” That implies that the Padres might want to hurry up if they’re serious about trading Peavy. As it was, Wren just gave Towers more ammo to go back to the press and make comments to the effect of at least we’re still talking to the Cubs. They sounded like fifth graders going back and forth. I wouldn’t be surprised if their friends were secretly listening on the other line.
By Bobby's Cox
November 20, 2008 5:22 PM | Link to this
ccrider,
did you drink cherry, or grape koolaid?
By Anders
November 20, 2008 5:24 PM | Link to this
ccrider
We have John Nash working on your 4:23 post. As soon as he has it fully decoded expect a response.
By Wayne
November 20, 2008 5:25 PM | Link to this
As close as they have become pitching for the Blue Jays, if we traded for Halladay, would that increase our chances to pick up Burnett??
Just wondering if we could parlay one trade into two acquisitions?
By TennesseePaul
November 20, 2008 5:30 PM | Link to this
Well, if the worry is that Peavy is an “abirition of PETCO”, then it should be noted that Greene isn’t as bad as his PETCO numbers make him out to be. He’s a career .270/.318/.434 guy on the road. It’s isn’t that impressive. But it also isn’t as bad as the .225/.289/.369 guy that he is at PETCO.
Out of his 6 seasons in the majors (not all of them full season) he has had 4 good years on the road: (.290/.342/.528) and two bad ones (.229/.270/.396).
By mbatl
November 20, 2008 5:30 PM | Link to this
Ted would be fun as owner - though honestly, quirky, highly-involved owners make me a little nervous - but based on what we know, I don’t see the big problem with anything Liberty has done so far.
They opened the checkbook to get Tex, and have given Wren a pretty big wad of money to spend this offseason (sounds like it could be a $105 - 110 mil payroll to me, once possible Smoltz/Glavine/Hampton deals are done, and apparently no “hard cap” on payroll as long as deals make good business sense).
And they’re leaving baseball, and baseball-business decisions, to McGuirck and Wren.
By TennesseePaul
November 20, 2008 5:35 PM | Link to this
So it turns out that Moneyball isn’t the be-all and end-all of the A’s SOP
Yeah, I think it still is. The common misunderstanding of the entire book of Moneyball was that people thought it was only about on-base percentage. The point of the topic was, as a GM you have to look for undervalued skill sets. At the time, on base percentage was that undervalued skill set. Bean still follows this philosophy. Under valued skill sets now are defense and batting average (an awkward measure of consistency). So it wouldn’t surprise me that he is acquiring guys of this ilk.
As for Holliday, I am a bit surprised he did acquire him as he will not be able to re-sign the guy. But perhaps Bean wants the draft picks when he walks or the mid-season trade ability. In the mean time he gets a good bat to put in the outfield.
By Bayou Brave
November 20, 2008 5:35 PM | Link to this
Nate in Maine You seriously think the Red Sox would trade Lester for Flowers?
By Bobby's Cox
November 20, 2008 5:37 PM | Link to this
efrim,
I understand every possible angle of the braves needs. Your response to me insinuated I didn’t.
My reasoning is this: you open up a hole a short that will possibly take years to fill, whereas holes in the rotation could be filled internally after the 2009 season. I’m not advocating taking a year off, but you can sign some pitchers or trade for lesser ones while waiting for guys to develop.
You just don’t fill a major hole while creating another major one. IMO.
By Anders
November 20, 2008 5:40 PM | Link to this
Halladay from the Blue Jays? If you think the Braves will have to swallow hard for what Peavy might cost wait until you see the market for Halladay who won’t come with all the “Peavy restrictions”. Not saying the Mets would have what it takes but lots of other teams would be in play that aren’t for Peavy.
Forget Halladay - that’s a pipedream. Peavy - maybe. Just a matter of price.
By What To Hope For?
November 20, 2008 5:50 PM | Link to this
All this is a moot point, though. He will be a Brave by the end of the month. I will bet Coach’s life on it
Oh man, now I am seriously conflicted.
By brent a.
November 20, 2008 5:55 PM | Link to this
As far as Ted owning the Braves, I think we saw that he was more than willing to “uninvolve” himself, beginning with making Cox GM in 198whatever.
To me, he is better than Liberty if the following 2 things happen
1) He increases payroll 1a) He operates as he did during the 1990’s 2) He gives a local face to the franchise that rejuvenates the fan base, and makes things feel more “local” and less “corporate”
By David-ATL14
November 20, 2008 6:05 PM | Link to this
**DOB Great blog agree wholeheartedly with your tak on the Peavy to the braves take.
Also rest easy my friend. Sons of Anarchy has already been renewed for Season 2.
Great show!
By Wayne
November 20, 2008 6:11 PM | Link to this
Has anybody heard if the Braves are interested in retaining Jorge Julio? I suspect he will be one of the myriad of free agents who will be signed in January/February timeframe that will not be well treated, dollar wise.
Dude did have a decent showing when called up, and was OK at Richmond, but I don’t remember hearing anybody say anything about his arm strength, potential, etc.
By Brandon
November 20, 2008 6:11 PM | Link to this
A close friend of mine works for a media outlet in Toronto and he said three teams have contacted the Bluejays about Halladay….and yes the Braves were one…But unless the Braves let go of Hanson, Heyward, or Jurrjens they would’nt do a deal. The Bluejays would require two of those names before Halladay would even breathe Atlanta air.
By Doug
November 20, 2008 6:12 PM | Link to this
Nice blog! I like a year or two of Pettitte much more than 4-5 of Lowe. I still think one if not two of the big pieces will be players not mentioned in the current rumors. Lots of offseason left.
To pick on a comment from the last blog regarding the Mackey confession on The Shield: wow! One of the great scenes I have seen, big and small screen. The buildup to whether Vic would admit guilt over Terry’s shooting or claim it was accidental, transitioning to smug satisfaction as he threw all his transgressions in ICE’s face, knowing he had gotten away with it all. Erased all questions about Vic being motivated by his conscience rather than by fear of getting caught.
Interesting looking back at how the series has, to a large extent, been about the consequences of the very first episode. (And how many cop shows can survuve after making the main character a murderer out of the gate?)
They really freed Mackey when he turned in his badge—gave him a nothing to lose edge! And Claudette has really been moving into Cavanaugh territory with her blow-ups. Just a terrific show! It will be interesting to see how Ronnie reacts to Vic sacrificing him.
Can’t believe its almost over, but they are certainly going out on top of their game!
By Bobby's Cox
November 20, 2008 6:18 PM | Link to this
According to lou vales, Turner’s money would be better spent continuing to raise buffalo on midwestern ranches and improving green house emissions in doing so, than to spend money buying a baseball team.
Some things in life are more important.
I agree.
But screw it, buy em back Ted! That is the American way right?
By Wayne
November 20, 2008 6:20 PM | Link to this
Has anybody heard if the Braves are interested in retaining Jorge Julio? I suspect he will be one of the myriad of free agents who will be signed in January/February timeframe that will not be well treated, dollar wise.
Dude did have a decent showing when called up, and was OK at Richmond, but I don’t remember hearing anybody say anything about his arm strength, potential, etc.
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
November 20, 2008 6:23 PM | Link to this
Bravos make a move!!
“Braves claimed southpaw reliever Eric O’Flaherty off waivers from the Mariners today. O’Flaherty, 24 in February, was terrible in seven appearances with the Ms this year and struggled with walks and hits allowed in Triple A.
In 2007, though, he held lefties to a .183/.278/.204 line.”
From MLBTraderumors.com
By pfunkatl2
November 20, 2008 6:25 PM | Link to this
DOB…any chance of sharing that CASH/DYLAN CD with me??? pfunkatl2003@yahoo.com
By Josh P.
November 20, 2008 6:27 PM | Link to this
Well Brandon unless Halladay passes through or visits he won’t be breathing Georgia air anytime soon!
By nolie
November 20, 2008 6:29 PM | Link to this
Speaking of excellent TV shows, does anyone know if or when “Breaking Bad” will return?PPaddy
13 episodes are due in February or early March
By Flustered Fan
November 20, 2008 6:30 PM | Link to this
I think that the Braves do need more of the “local feel” again. They’re not getting it throught Liberty. I never agreed with MLB’s approval of the sale. If they were to have local ownership again, whether Turner, or even Blank, you would see a new resurgence of interest in the Braves.
By tennessejed
November 20, 2008 6:35 PM | Link to this
Frank Wren said in his chat today that the Peavy talks are off, and that they are looking elsewhere. He thinks Paul Byrd would be a great addition. He also mentioned that Diaz is still a good hitter and has worked hard in the offseason and is in great shape. He also doesn’t feel pressured to spend the 45 million. 09 here we come!!
By Wayne
November 20, 2008 6:39 PM | Link to this
Dave (or anyone who knows)
When do the Braves have to set their roster so as not to lose guys to the Rule 5 draft?
Thanks in advance…
By ccrider
November 20, 2008 6:41 PM | Link to this
To The Fabication King AKA Anders: I wouldn’t expect a Mets fan to understand anything more complex than GO YOU F** Mets! But to simplify it for you, the economics could work with the right balance of young cheap players and expensive star players. Is that simple enough for you?
By John
November 20, 2008 6:47 PM | Link to this
Wayne
The deadline was earlier today. We should find out any time now who the Braves have protected.
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 20, 2008 6:48 PM | Link to this
Hey! We saw the Space Shuttle fly over our neighborhood around 6:15!! That was COOL!!
By David O'Brien
November 20, 2008 6:49 PM | Link to this
Braves sent out a release while ago announcing the moves to finalize their protected (40-man) roster while I was on the treadmill.
If you haven’t see it elsewhere: SS Diory Hernandez and RHPs Stephen Marek and Todd Redmond were added along with a lefty they claimed off waivers from Seattle, a dude with a solid name: Eric O’Flaherty. I’ll be writing good stuff about O’Flaherty regardless of how her performs, needless to say.
He’s 23 and had a 20.25 ERA in seven relief appearances with the Mariners last year. But those numbers are misleading, folks.
The Braves had already opened room on the 40-man with guys who became free agents and release of Scott Thorman, etc.
By larry
November 20, 2008 6:52 PM | Link to this
What about Garett Anderson for LF, I lived in So. Ca. and follow the Angels forever and he, in my opion, has more of an upside than Raul I. of Seattle. The Angles may make an offer, but he is solid and of great character and can still hit and field. What do you think??
By David O'Brien
November 20, 2008 6:54 PM | Link to this
Rico, good to hear from ya. Liberty has to hang on to the team for at least a couple more years per the tax laws, etc. I’d have to go back and look at the stories after the sale, but I know it was at least a few years they had to own the team.
By David O'Brien
November 20, 2008 6:55 PM | Link to this
Ppaddy, agreed on Breaking Bad. Outstanding show. He (the guy who plays the chem teacher-turned-meth cook) won the Emmy, by the way, for best actor.
By BravesFanInRockies
November 20, 2008 6:56 PM | Link to this
10Paul,
Agreed, I shortchanged Moneyball in my attempt to be pithy. Busted! It is all about GMs finding and acquiring talent that’s not fully appreciated by the herd.
But do you think BA has gone from overvalued to undervalued in five short years? I’m dubious but it could be that Beane is ahead of the pack again …
By Nate in Maine
November 20, 2008 6:57 PM | Link to this
BAYOU BRAVE It was just a suggestion. I have heard that the redsox want a a catcher for the future and there isn’t a whole lot of talent out there for catchers. The redsox would trade Bucholz for Satly why not trade Bucholz for flowers. I have seen bucholz pitch and he has some good stuff.
By Steve from OH
November 20, 2008 7:02 PM | Link to this
Coach, I’ll just second what Scoots and JimD said, while adding that the NL average line in 1982 was .258/.319/.373 (St. Louis had an OPS+ of 103 that year, so they were pretty close to that), compared to this year’s average of .260/.331/.413. Herzog’s ‘82 team would have struggled in this era’s offensive climate. Period. And you’re suggesting that we try to emulate that? Why?
Look, man, I do agree with you that a championship team builds around pitching and defense (and in my younger days, I would have agreed on the speed, too. But times change. Get over it and get with the times, dude). But when you suggest that we play inferior offensive players because they’re fast and “speed never slumps,” or whatever catchphrase you want to use, it’s just silly. It makes zero sense.
A full season of Josh Anderson would be a 600-PA slump.
By Nate in Maine
November 20, 2008 7:06 PM | Link to this
Jason in FL I am in york county maine.
By Deep Throat
November 20, 2008 7:08 PM | Link to this
It’d probably be smart to trade Francoeur. People say his value is low; but at least he has a little value right now. The Braves could probably package Francoeur to some gullible team this offseason and get something useful for 2009 and maybe beyond.
But after Francoeur puts up another typical Frenchy season next year (probably around: .280/.300/.400) and gets slightly older and more expensive, his trade value will be less than none: it’s be a negative value. Not to mention Braves’ fans will have to put up with another 600+ at-bat Frenchy year. Francoeur may “bounce back” to being his usual .730 OPS self, but that sucks too coming from right field. The guy is .268/.312/.434 for his career….a career with over 2,100 career at-bats in 549 major league games. This ain’t some kid. Three fulls seasons now; two historically bad (2006, 2008) and one slightly sub-average one (2007). What’s it take?
End the insanity, minimize the losses: trade Francoeur.
By BravesFanInRockies
November 20, 2008 7:12 PM | Link to this
Steve from OH,
Second that.
Look at videos of games from that era. The strike zone was much bigger (at least the way the umps called ‘em), and so patience at the plate was not rewarded the way it is now. Slap (and especially gap) hitters fared a lot better in that environment.
And yet, Earl Weaver and his big inning offense typically won a lot more games than he lost.
By Brandon
November 20, 2008 7:23 PM | Link to this
As I understand the Bluejays would consider trading Halladay/Rios for Heyward, Jurrjens, Lillibridge, and a AA pitcher Possibly Locke.. That is what he says would make them pull the trigger. Take Rios out and the bluejays may not get Lillibridge
By Bobby's Cox
November 20, 2008 7:26 PM | Link to this
Steve,
I’m in no way taking Coach’s side:
However, I think the game is getting back to that. Players are shrinking, and the running game is becoming more affluent again. It’s a trend. Whereas the Braves shouldn’t go to Herzog’s level, they should, as you said, go with the times. I see nothing wrong with the leadoff or 8th place hitter having a 82% SB rate.
However, does nothing good if that 8 guy can’t get on base, especially if there’s potentially better options (schafer) available. There should be a balanced lineup, so I agree with you both, somewhat. The braves lineup, as it stands, is not so balanced, but it’s getting there with McCann losing weight (joke, i think).
By semiballcoach
November 20, 2008 7:31 PM | Link to this
paul byrd?? older version of campillo…please tell it ain’t so
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 20, 2008 7:42 PM | Link to this
Bobby’s Cox—
Hardy har. ; )
I see nothing wrong with the leadoff or 8th place hitter having a 82% SB rate.
Hey, last year our cleanup hitter had a 100% SB rate.
By Salty Dawg
November 20, 2008 7:43 PM | Link to this
DOB, glad to see you fess up to being a fan of “It’s Always Sunny in Philadelphia.” I though I was the only one depraved enough to find that show funny. It is absolutely hilarious and most of the time I’m just laughing at how offensive it is. Great show. Regarding SOA, if FX cancels that show I’m calling DirectTV to come get their box. That is the ONLY show I have ever watched every episode of. Last night was the best show yet. Seems like a lot of really great shows get the axe though. Anybody ever see The Black Donnelly’s on NBC? Awesome show and got cancelled after like 5 episodes. I wish FX would pick that show up and dust it off.
By Steve from OH
November 20, 2008 7:46 PM | Link to this
Bobby’s, there’s nothing wrong with wanting a balanced lineup. I agree that the game may be trending back that way, but we’re still a long way’s off from the anemic 1982 offensive numbers. My main point is that we shouldn’t overvalue speed in lieu of subpar numbers in other, more important categories. I agree that Schafer is a better option, although he may yet be deemed unready by the FO this spring. But if he’s ready, Anderson’s speed is not enough to offset the myriad of benefits you stand to get with Schafer playing instead of Anderson. Love Anderson as a 4th OF, not as a starter. That’s all I’m saying.
Not a thing wrong with a leadoff hitter as fast or as good at stealing bases as Anderson, but I don’t think those qualities are enough to offset his low-OBP trends (and low SLG too)
By ncscoots
November 20, 2008 7:48 PM | Link to this
Steve-OH, you know the funniest thing? I’ve had that speed-as-tactics-not-strategy conversation in this forum for years, but check my screen name. What kind of offensive player do you think I might have been, back in the day? LOL, life is a strange ole thing, brah.
‘Course, I saw the light as I grew into a young man, and stuck to pitching. :-)
By Flustered Fan
November 20, 2008 7:49 PM | Link to this
Paul Byrd? I dunno bout that one…
By Salty Dawg
November 20, 2008 7:53 PM | Link to this
I was in favor of getting Peavy before I was against it.
Other than Chipper, we are a very young team. Why are we so insistent on 2009, like it’s a make-or-break year?
We have a terrific nucleus of young talent and a minor league roster that is apparently the envy of many.
Folks, we are built for long-term success…providing we don’t gut it for a longshot pennant run in 2009. rammerjammer
The problem is that baseball, like many things, is a “what have you done for me lately” pastime. Nobody want to sit around before the season starts and say “hey, we aren’t going to play for squat this year, but wait ‘til 2011.” Fans pay the bills and fans want to see good baseball in 2009.
By Salty Dawg
November 20, 2008 7:56 PM | Link to this
I was just wondering if it would be worth it to possibly give up some of the “untouchables” if it meant having a legit shot at getting to the WS within the next year or two.
Hmmm…that plot seems vaguely familiar. Now where have I heard that before. Say, does anyone know if Texiera has signed anywhere yet?
By Salty Dawg
November 20, 2008 7:58 PM | Link to this
Flustered: Good question.
Ahhh, the master shows restraint.
By Bobby's Cox
November 20, 2008 8:02 PM | Link to this
steve, completely agree
By Flustered Fan
November 20, 2008 8:05 PM | Link to this
Salty, what are you talking about?
By Salty Dawg
November 20, 2008 8:08 PM | Link to this
Mark Texiera and Jason Varitek just made a cameo on tv at the Ga Tech game. Texiera says he just wants to get it out of the way. Well, then can your agent douchebag.
By Flustered Fan
November 20, 2008 8:09 PM | Link to this
And Salty calls DOB sarcastic…
By Flustered Fan
November 20, 2008 8:17 PM | Link to this
Scott Boras: the Nazi agent…
By Anti Peavy
November 20, 2008 8:20 PM | Link to this
I wish the Braves would forget about Pake Jeavy and move on….he ain’t worth all that…
By JimD
November 20, 2008 8:38 PM | Link to this
Steve and scoots,
I agree that speed is making a bit of a comeback, but it will never be what it was in the late 70’s early 80’s. Remember Herb Washington of the A’s?
Today’s smaller parks and their natural grass along with the natural evolution of the game keep speed from being as much of a weapon as it once.
But, to Coach’s credit, speed is still a valuable tool. Obviously, all things equal I would choose the more mobile player over the more cumbersome one. It’s just that speed doesn’t kill anymore, but it does irritate.
By Braveheart
November 20, 2008 8:44 PM | Link to this
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/20/sports/baseball/20pitcher.html?pagewanted=all
Japanese Are Irked by U.S. Interest in Pitcher
By ALAN SCHWARZ and BRAD LEFTON Published: November 19, 2008
As far as Junichi Tazawa is concerned, the most rebellious acts in his 22 years have been ignoring his homework and sneaking home after sunrise. But as the first high-profile Japanese baseball prospect to turn down his nation’s leagues to entertain offers from Major League Baseball teams, he has found himself straining relations between baseball entities on two continents, with accusations of talent raiding and defiance of decades-long understandings.
Tazawa’s talent snuck up on him as much as this controversy. After pitching for his high school team in the port city of Yokohama, he was not drafted by the 12 Japanese major league organizations. His only offer was to pitch for Japan Oil in the industrial league, a workers’ minor league unaffiliated with the Japanese majors. He has been there ever since.
In an interview this month in a cramped meeting room at the company dorm in Kawasaki, Tazawa said he casually watched Major League Baseball on television while growing up and admired trailblazers like the recently retired Hideo Nomo, who became a sensation pitching for the Los Angeles Dodgers in 1995. But Tazawa said he never fantasized a similar career for himself.
“I never had an interest in the game over there,” Tazawa said in Japanese. “I guess that’s mostly because I never imagined I had the talent to consider such a thing.”
Tazawa improved in the industrial leagues and, at an amateur tournament in Taiwan last November, had his fastball clocked on the scoreboard as high as 97 miles an hour. “I couldn’t believe it,” he said. “I thought the speed gun must be broken or something.”
Astonishment extended to the scouts in the stands, some of whom were from the United States. They expressed interest in Tazawa to Japan Oil’s manager, Hideaki Okubo, a 39-year-old recently retired professional who had watched many peers move midcareer to American baseball. Okubo encouraged Tazawa to consider the rare opportunity of signing directly with a Major League Baseball team, and later said in Japanese during an interview that Tazawa would be best served by “the toughness of an unfamiliar environment where his need for survival would be challenged more.”
Tazawa thrived this summer, posting a 10-1 record and a 1.02 earned run average for Japan Oil and striking out 95 batters in 88 1/3 innings.
Mets General Manager Omar Minaya said he considered Tazawa available but continued: “It’s a sensitive area. It’s fair to say that if we were to go out and get their college players, what would prevent them from coming after our college players?”
The Yankees’ Cashman was unequivocal. “I’m old school — there has been an understanding,” said Cashman, whose team has a formal cooperative relationship with the Yomiuri Giants, a team particularly upset with the Tazawa affair. “There’s been a reason that Japanese amateurs haven’t been signed in the past, so we consider him hands off.”
Tazawa would not be the first modern Japanese amateur to sign with a United States club, but the first to do so against Nippon Professional Baseball’s wishes. Other players, like the current Atlanta Braves minor leaguer Ryohei Shimabukuro, signed after dropping out of high school but were not considered a top prospect by Japanese clubs. In 2003, pitcher Kaz Tadano was shunned by Japanese teams after he appeared in a pornographic film, and he signed with the Cleveland Indians.
“There’s a fine line between falling behind the competition because you’re quote being respectful, and competing like others will compete,” said Ned Colletti, general manager of the Los Angeles Dodgers. “We have to be wise in our decision-making at the moment of truth.”
Tazawa whetted scouts’ appetites again Monday, when he threw a five-hit shutout for Japan Oil in the national amateur tournament. It is believed that at least a half-dozen teams will actively pursue him, including the Boston Red Sox, the Braves and the Seattle Mariners, with offers that could reach $2 million to $5 million.
Tazawa has no intention of reconsidering his decision. Whether he blazes any trail for others, or if future rules are adapted for the changing global marketplace, he will find out with everyone else.
“I’m looking forward to signing with an American team and seeing what I can do,” he said. “The appeal of matching power against power is too great for me to pass up.
By Bryan
November 20, 2008 8:51 PM | Link to this
wow, the irony …
On the same day of O’Flaherty’s debut, the Seattle Times reported that his “big-league visit was too short to qualify as a cup of coffee”. The night before he had been flown in from Triple-A Tacoma in order to replace a seemingly injured Rafael Soriano. When O’Flaherty arrived, Soriano convinced coaches he was healthy enough to remain on the Mariners’ roster, so O’Flaherty was sidelined out of uniform for the rest of the night.
By Yars
November 20, 2008 8:55 PM | Link to this
The flick, Dodgeball is on FX now. ‘Always Sunny….’ follows. I wonder how many times Wren has said, “KJ’s defense is improving dramatically,” to other teams during trade talks? :P
By Tomas
November 20, 2008 8:56 PM | Link to this
I think the Braves should reconsider the option of moving Kelly Johnson back to left field. He is a very good hitter, and I think next year is the year when he finally delivers the 20-25 homers. I think he has improved a lot in second base, but Prado is a better fielder. C Brian McCann, 1B Casey Kotchman, 2B Martin Prado, 3B Chipper Jones, SS Yunel Escobar, LF Kelly Johnson, CF Jordan Schafer, RF Jeff Franceour, SP Aj Burnett, SP Jair Jurrjens, SP Mike Hampton, SP Randy Wolf, SP Jorge Campillo.
Keep Yunel, you get an ace in Burnett, keep Boyer, Morton, Gorkys, sign Tazawa(5 million), resign Ohman(3yrs 11 million), Norton(1.75million), and Smoltz(2million + incentives(max of 6 million)) and Glavine(2million + incentives(max of 4 million)) if they can pitch of course. Really no need to trade, but Wren needs to offer Burnett a 5 yr deal worth 83 million(OUTBID the Yankees, and Redsox). Sign Mike Hampton(1yr 4million + incentives(max of 7 million)), and sign Randy Wolf(2 yrs 14 million).
If incentives arren’t given, then it all sums to a total of 41 million, with incentives 49 million.
There will be a lot of depth in the rotation:
SP Aj Burnett, SP Jair Jurrjens, SP Mike Hampton, SP Randy Wolf, SP Jorge Campillo, SP Tom Glavine, SP Tommy Hanson, SP Junichi Tazawa, SP Tim Hudson, and SP Charlie Morton.
And in the bulpen as well:
RHP Jorge Campillo, John Smoltz, Manny Acosta, Rafael Soriano, Blaine Boyer, Peter Moylan, and Jeff Bennet.
LHP Mike Gonzales, Jeff Ridgeway, Eric O’Flaherty.
No Jake Peavy, or Roy Halladay, but a very solid team.
By Bobby's Cox
November 20, 2008 8:58 PM | Link to this
thanks for the article braveheart.
Someone tell Cashman that building a team full of free agents and million dollar pitchers ain’t exactly “old school” either.
By An Odds Game
November 20, 2008 9:02 PM | Link to this
Better odds?
Peavy getting hurt
or
Tazawa being an elite major-league pitcher?
Depending on those odds, I might rather sign Tazawa with a $5 million bonus plus contract than go through with the Jake Peavy scenario.
By Joe M.
November 20, 2008 9:02 PM | Link to this
A couple of thoughts, re: Wren chat.
Thanatos:Who will be the big free agents from the Braves next year? Will you attempt to lock any up long-term before next offseason?
Wren: Our only free agents next year will be Gonzo, Soriano and Omar Infante. We’ll evaluate that later in the season.
I thought Chipper was a free agent after 2009?
preacherj: Frank, thanks for taking my question. In looking for a power bat in the outfield, how much does left- vs. right-handed play into things? We have several lefties that could hit consecutively it seems. Does this affect if you look only for a right-handed bat?
*Wren: We would prefer a right-handed bat, because of our left-handed hitters we already have. And the vast majority of our kids coming are left-handed hitters. But if you look at our key returning guys, McCann, Kelly Johnson and Kotchman, they all hit left-handed pitchers as well or better than they hit right-handers. We can go either way, really. *
rbt778: Kelly Johnson is a natural left fielder and a pretty good No. 7 hitter. How about Dye or Ordonez trade for power bat and let Hernandez or Blanco go for the trade?
Wren: Kelly is a natural shortstop who we moved to left field, and he had a tremendous last six weeks and he is getting better at second base all the time.
Doesn’t sound like they’re trading Johnson. I don’t mind trading Johnson in the right deal, but trading him for over 30 Ludwick’s fluke year is a steal for the Cardinals.
By chuckw/deadjournalist
November 20, 2008 9:05 PM | Link to this
Has there been any discussion on the broadcasting team for ‘09?
By Steve from OH
November 20, 2008 9:12 PM | Link to this
Joe M., FW also said that “the infield is set,” and that Yunel wasn’t on the block, but you’d probably have to re-read the chat to get the full context of the quotes.
I like keeping Kelly, though I know I’m in the minority. Definitely not up for trading him for Ludwick. Good to see FW is not actively shopping Yunel, anyway. You can calm down, Scoots.
By LT-A blogger
November 20, 2008 9:21 PM | Link to this
DOB, In your opinion, is there any magic domino that has to fall before Peavy gets dealt. For example, AJ Burnette goes to blank.
He and Lowe are the names always discussed here. Everything I read indicates Lowe wants to go back to the AL. Burnette seems to be the X factor (other than CC but no way we get him).
By wiki
November 20, 2008 9:29 PM | Link to this
I’ve now read three independent, “inside”, unsubstantiated stories on three different blogs that indicate Peavy wants to be a Cubbie. Certainly they all could be made up stories but it makes you think twice when they all point towards the windy city.
By Yars
November 20, 2008 9:37 PM | Link to this
Joe M……thanks a lot for posting part of the chat transcript Wren participated in. I still hope it’s possible to acquire 2 SP & a power hitting LF without giving up KJ and/or Yunel. Sure, Ludwick had an awesome ‘08, but like some of you have stated, perhaps it was a fluke. No way I would trade KJ for Ludwick.
By Flustered Fan
November 20, 2008 9:38 PM | Link to this
Tomas, I loved your post at 8:56, but the only thing that I would change would be to dump Boyer. Just about everytime he was brought into a situation where the Braves were winning, it was almost a no-brainer that he would cough it up. I say he needs to go, but other than that, I wholly agree with you, bro.
By Chuck James is solid until the 6th!! (Formerly Steve-O)
November 20, 2008 9:40 PM | Link to this
Peavy will be got, all this talk is just tireless for something inevitable….
Charlie: DAYMAN!!! Dennis: AwwaaaOOOOOOOO Charlie: Fighter of the NIGHT-MAN!!!..Champion of the SUN…… Dennis: AwwaaaOOOOOOOO Together: and Master of KARATE and Friendship for EVERYONE!!!!!
FX does kick a* and Always Sunny in Philadelphia is HESTERICAL, Charlie is flawless and it’s so ridiculously random and well written and Danny Devito is perfect too. DOB and anyone who watches how do you think Entourage will proceed after they get back to Queens?
Just switchin it up cause nothin new is goin down now and DOB mentioned FX…
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 20, 2008 9:40 PM | Link to this
Joe M. Doesn’t sound like they’re trading Johnson.
Good.
27-3!!
By Roman Gal
November 20, 2008 9:40 PM | Link to this
McFann I go to a school where I can see the Rome Braves play because the stadium is about 2 miles away from it.
Truett Cathy also has a house here.
By Roman Gal
November 20, 2008 9:44 PM | Link to this
Efrim On the last blog you posted a Q&A with Kieth Law where he said that he thinks Tommy Hanson has Ace potential.
I’m really glad to finally see that, because so far everything still said that he had a #2 ceiling. Thanks for posting that. It’s good to hear.
By Flustered Fan
November 20, 2008 9:45 PM | Link to this
I wouldn’t take Peavy because A. He doesn’t really want to play here, and B. His elbow is some concern. I know I sound like a broken record, but does anyone recall the Len Barker trade? The trade that haunted Atlanta? The Braves traded for Len Barker who came from Cleveland. Not long after becoming a Brave, he blew his elbow out. This whole Peavy thing sounds too much like that scenario. C’mon people, especially the “Get Peavy” supporters. This thing still doesn’t feel right and I’m hoping the Braves can go elsewhere to look for their pitching concerns.
By Flustered Fan
November 20, 2008 9:47 PM | Link to this
I just wished we could keep Yunel off the block…why make another whole by plugging up another.
By brian
November 20, 2008 9:55 PM | Link to this
DOB - did you see any of True Blood this year?
By David O'Brien
November 20, 2008 9:55 PM | Link to this
Chuck James is solid: I don’t think they’ll stay in Queens too long on Entourage, do you? Show’s gotta be set in L.A. I bet they’re back there, maybe finish out this season in Queens, but no more than that I’d guess.
And you’re right, not just Charlie but all the characters on Always Sunny are terrific….
Roman Gal, where did you hear that Hanson had a “No. 2 ceiling?” No way. You must’ve been reading scouting reports from a year ago or more. His outlook and scouting reports changed quite a bit in the past year. No scout would say he’s merely a No. 2-ceiling guy now….
By David O'Brien
November 20, 2008 10:00 PM | Link to this
Salty Dawg, I’ve watched Always Sunny from the get-go. Subversive, politically incorrect, hilarious.
I wish FX would pick up Arrested Development, that’s what I wish they’d pick up.
By Roman Gal
November 20, 2008 10:05 PM | Link to this
DOB, they were old ones…but I’d never seen it actually written anywhere (by scouts or whatever) that his “ceiling” was higher.
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 20, 2008 10:08 PM | Link to this
Roman Gal—
Ah! OK! That’s cool! Good luck with your studies!
Boy…I hope Tech cann keep this up in their next game!
By world-B
November 20, 2008 10:10 PM | Link to this
fx shows, in order of greatness: 1. The Shield 2. NipTuck (before the last two years 3. Sons of Anarchy 4. Rescue Me (Great first year, not so much after that. 5. Damages (Good Season One, looking forward to 2) Never could get into Dirt. Nor Sunny. Probably missed the boat on Sunny.
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 20, 2008 10:15 PM | Link to this
What the VORP—a Mets fan?
There’s a Mets fan at the Tech-Miami game…and a Gator fan…
Night, all!
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 20, 2008 10:17 PM | Link to this
Oh man…there’s a Braves fan, too…
By Tomas
November 20, 2008 10:17 PM | Link to this
Thanks Flustered Fan,
I think Boyer might be designated for assignment, because he’s run out of options, thats why he made it in spring training along with Chris Resop, and they traded Tyler Yates. Anyway I think that if Peter Moylan, Rafael Soriano, Manny Acosta, Jeff Bennet, and Mike Gonzales all are completely healthy, I have a hard time believing Boyer would win the job against those guys.
But I think the chances of my 8:56 post happening are slim, because I get the impression Frank Wren won’t offer Aj Burnett a 5 yr deal worth more than 80 million. And I prefer that he would sign Wolf over Byrd, but Byrd is cheaper, and a more familiar face.
For me signing Burnett, Wolf, Hampton, Ohman, Norton, Smoltz, Glavine, and Junichi Tazawa will be a very good alternative plan. And I think is very posible considering the payroll is going up and the Braves have 45-48 million to spend on the FA market.
For sure beats signing Jon Garland, and Paul Byrd.
We can use Boyer as a trade bait along with Jo-jo Reyes, Brandon Jones and Matt Diaz and get an outfielder maybe Gary Matthews jr.(only if the Angels pay his contract), or someone like Coco Crisp, Mark Teahen, Ty Wigginton, Matt Kemp.
Those players like Blaine Boyer, Brandon Jones, Matt Diaz, Jo-jo Reyes we can afford to trade because they generate interest, and don’t have a spot in the team. In Yunel Escobar’s case, that’s a player we would have to spend a lot of money to replace, trading him would hurt.
By Random
November 20, 2008 10:18 PM | Link to this
Flustered Fan nuggets:
“I’ll believe this trade when it and if it happens.”
That’s “when and if”, not “when it and if it” — see Chomsky’s “Some Concepts and Consequences of the Theory of Government and Binding” or his “Syntactic Structures” to get a clue on raising and nesting NPs.
“DOB, If Yunel is dealt away, won’t that leave a big whole at shortstop?”
Hole?
“If Towers can’t move Peavy,he might have to concede Greene as part of the deal.”
Oh, yeah — I can hear Towers now: “Oh, please, Frank, don’t throw me into that there briar patch! Don’t rip Khalil from my heaving, loving bosom!”
“Alright, I’m obviously missing something on Greene.”
…
“I don’t blog everyday so I really don’t know.”
A word to the wise should be sufficient — read before you write.
“Well, I was just researching on Greene and his numbers weren’t too impressive this past season. But, he’s still younger than Renteria or Furcal, and you never know when he might heat back up.”
Oh, yeah — any day now, he’ll heat right back up to his one-year flash-in-the-pan 2004 numbers, after four straight years of declining performance.
“I guess I’m just saying the Braves shouldn’t shoot themselves in the foot by giving up a decent (though moody) shortstop.”
Totally agree. The only (type) player I’d be willing to part with Escobar for is (a true ace like) Peavy. (Parens for Halladay possibility.)
“I was just wondering, just wondering, mind you, why the Pads want take Johnson”
Good question — perceptions, I think. Escobar may be perceived to have a higher “ceiling” at a more difficult position than Johnson. (But see my contemplated later comment on possibility of KJ sliding over to SS if YE is traded.)
“They also have to have a back-up plan for a 3rd baseman. Chipper’s good and all, but, almost like clock work, he ends up on the DL. Man, I’d hate to have to be a GM right now.”
Wholly Ess, man, if that was Frank Wren’s (or any GM’s) biggest conundrum, he’d be working for tips, and the foremost question on his mind would be “Will that be papaer or pastic, Ma’am?” The Braves’ve still got Infante and Prado and Lillibridge. Covering for Chipper in 2009 is the least of Wren’s problems.
I could go on, but enough’s enough.
By Roman Gal
November 20, 2008 10:23 PM | Link to this
DOB. Although, John Sickels did write this:
3) Thomas Hanson, RHP, Grade B+: Looks good to me, though will need some Triple-A to put on the finishing touches. Number Two starter ceiling.
By Tomas
November 20, 2008 10:29 PM | Link to this
I was just looking at Gary Matthews jr. contract…WHAT A RIP OFF..
signed 5-year deal worth $50M thru 2011 season on 11/22/06- + he receives a $2M signing bonus and salaries of $6M in 2007, $9M in 2008, $10M in 2009, $11M in 2010 and $12M in 2011- + the deal includes a complete NO-TRADE clause thru October 2009- + after October 2009, he receives a limited NO-TRADE clause that allows him to select four teams to which he cannot be traded to without his consent- + he receives a $500K assignment bonus every time he is traded- + 2006 salary: $2,387,500 (+ $100K in bonuses), 2005 salary: $1.1M (+ $125K in bonuses) Agent: Danny Horwits
And they have him as backup, because they signed Tori Hunter last year. WOW.(By the way he is a terrific fielder, and hit 285 against lefties, might be a good platoon guy in center field). But if the Angels pay the majority of his contract.
DOB, when a player has a COMPLETE no trade clause, can he still be traded if he want’s to?
By Flustered Fan
November 20, 2008 10:30 PM | Link to this
Random Tool it sounds like you’re an expert. This is a blog where people can ask questions, not to try and belittle other…keep blogging, and I’ll pull some Random Nuggets out and put them on display.
By Flustered Fan
November 20, 2008 10:32 PM | Link to this
Random, if I misunderstood something here, then I’ll take the beating.
By TennesseePaul
November 20, 2008 10:32 PM | Link to this
I wish FX would pick up Arrested Development, that’s what I wish they’d pick up.
I had the pleasure of meeting Jeffrey Tambor a while back. He’s a really nice guy. Loves books. Just loves ‘em.
I love Arrested Development. The cool thing about this though, when I met Jeffrey he was on his way out of town to do a film.
Arrested Development the movie should be coming out in 2009.
By Dixie Dawg
November 20, 2008 10:34 PM | Link to this
Hmmmm….nothing like over sensitive bloggers…Flustered
By Tomas
November 20, 2008 10:42 PM | Link to this
DOB,
From your personal, and profesional opinion, who do you see as a better pitcher Phillip Hughes or Tommy Hanson?
By Dixie Dawg
November 20, 2008 10:45 PM | Link to this
Be nice if Peavy was gift-wrapped and placed under Frank Wren’s Christmas tree.
By braves n dawgs
November 20, 2008 10:53 PM | Link to this
DOB, Roman Gal is right about Hanson’s projection. Jasob Stark says that scouts are projecting Hanson as a #3. He disagrees, saying he should be higher, but apparently everyone there are some scouts not 100% sold on the guy. Here is what he said in his Rumblings and Grumblings” section:
• Braves pitcher Tommy Hanson (5-0, 0.67 ERA, 49 strikeouts, 28 2/3 innings pitched): “If he doesn’t make their club next spring, he’ll be their first call-up. He’s really close. He’s got good command of three pitches. He’s a very good athlete for a kid who’s 6-[foot]-6. He’s got a good feel for pitching. I can see why they wouldn’t put him in that [Jake] Peavy deal. *I hear other scouts say he’s a No. 3 starter. Hell, he’s better than that.” *
By Bubdylan
November 20, 2008 11:00 PM | Link to this
Flustered, I have sort of been in your shoes on this blog before (though, I dare say, not so deep in them). The sarcasm is deep and a little icy, but, to pervert Billy Joel, “it’s better than bloggin’ alone.”
Anyway, if you don’t take a week or so to mostly read quietly, and then jump in with a little idea about what’s been said, you’re taking a big risk. There is more respect for your opinion to be found here than it probably looks like right now. But you might consider a more… uh… studied approach. (New screen name wouldn’t hurt your cause, either, at this point. Just sayin…) Good luck.
By braves n dawgs
November 20, 2008 11:01 PM | Link to this
Sorry about the sloppy typing/incoherent sentences. I hope you get the gist of what I’m saying. I shouldn’t watch football and type at the same time…… the Jackets are making me nervous, what a beat-down on Miami.
By Outside the Box
November 20, 2008 11:02 PM | Link to this
After the Braves trade Escobar and others for Peavy, I’ve got the perfect solution: Why not bring back Andruw Jones to play SS? Get LA to eat the majority of his contract, and plug him at SS. When the Braves scouts went to get their first look at Andruw, they thought they were going to scout a shortstop. AJ surprised them when he trotted out to centerfield to take flyballs. Low budget solution, right there y’all! And AJ’s itchin’ to come home.
By Steve from OH
November 20, 2008 11:07 PM | Link to this
Guys, if FW thought Hanson was a #3, he’d already be a Padre. I think his stock has gone up significantly as of late. I’ve read where scouts think he’ll end up being as good as Peavy.
By nolie
November 20, 2008 11:08 PM | Link to this
. The common misunderstanding of the entire book of Moneyball was that people thought it was only about on-base percentage. The point of the topic was, as a GM you have to look for undervalued skill sets. At the time, on base percentage was that undervalued skill set. Bean still follows this philosophy.TennPaul
very true
By braves n dawgs
November 20, 2008 11:16 PM | Link to this
I don’t think he is a #3. I’m just pointing out he may not be the consensus stud that Wren and most of us on this blog think he will be, including myself. I’m thrilled about seeing his first start in Atlanta, and think he is going to be a centerpiece of the next dynasty of dominant Braves pitching. Just saying, apparently all the scouts aren’t sold…. yet
By nolie
November 20, 2008 11:18 PM | Link to this
He thinks Paul Byrd would be a great addition. He also mentioned that Diaz is still a good hitter and has worked hard in the offseason and is in great shape. He also doesn’t feel pressured to spend the 45 million. 09 here we come!!TennJed
This is more like what I’ve been expecting to happen all along.
By Bubdylan
November 20, 2008 11:19 PM | Link to this
Outside the Box, you could crush the box, soak it in gas, torch it, and blast the ashes into space and AJ at SS would still seem crazy. Last time I saw a Dodger highlight of him diving for a ball, it looked like somebody slung a giant seal onto flypaper. Wish my car had brakes like that.
By Flustered Fan
November 20, 2008 11:20 PM | Link to this
Thanks BubDylan that’s good advice. I’m just a part-time blogger. I guess it does seem to make me look rather ignorant, but, hypothetically speaking here, I should make sure I have my gun loaded before firing.
By Dixie Dawg
November 20, 2008 11:22 PM | Link to this
Ya’ll here about Steinbrenner relinquishing his control of the Yankees?
By Dixie Dawg
November 20, 2008 11:24 PM | Link to this
What’s the latest on Furcal’s status?
By nolie
November 20, 2008 11:27 PM | Link to this
but check my screen name. What kind of offensive player do you think I might have been, back in the day? Scoots
I always pictured you as running..to the bathroom alll the time. What we always called the scoots * ;-)*
By Bill
November 20, 2008 11:28 PM | Link to this
thanks for the updates. it is always baseball season.
By Dixie Dawg
November 20, 2008 11:28 PM | Link to this
AJ at shortstop…that’s kind of scary…all he would to do is turn sideways and his gut would plug up the left side. Sorry, that was mean.
By Bubdylan
November 20, 2008 11:42 PM | Link to this
nolie, lmao @ the scoots
By Random
November 20, 2008 11:46 PM | Link to this
Flustered Fan: “This is a blog where people can ask questions, not to try and belittle other…keep blogging, and I’ll pull some Random Nuggets out and put them on display.”
Feel free — I’m as vulnerable to criticism as anyone else who posts here. After all, I do post my own comments myself.
So when/if I do ask a question that has been addressed a half a dozen times on each of the three previous blogs (just as, y’ know, a hypothetical f’r’xample), please do call it to my attention. (Second word to the wise, since the first appears not to have been sufficient: read before you write.)
(And, oh — if you only knew how — I’ve a rich history and written record of no-holds-barred comments over the past couple of years here that are veritably ripe for your criticism. Have at it — if only you knew how. And were willing to read.)
And just how belittling was it to you for me to agree with you on losing Escobar, or on Johnson’s/Escobar’s perceived comparative values?
“if I misunderstood something here, then I’ll take the beating.”
Gambatte, kudasai! (“Persevere!” per Mitchie-san.)
(And PS: develop and nurture your sense of humor. My first three jibes were of a JK variety — who would seriously jump on somebody for a “hole”/”whole” typo/malapropism? We usually tend to take those kinds of slips for granite here, don’t we, Original Jon?)
By Outside the Box
November 20, 2008 11:55 PM | Link to this
I’m tellin’ you: With Bobby as his coach again, Andruw could handle SS. That’s the position that AJ has always wanted to play. And he’d probably settle in mentally and listen to Terry Pendleton too. Heck, AJ would be slapping the ball all over the field and hitting in all directions. 40+ HRs, 110+ RBI, a .300 BA, and a gold glove—as Shortstop! Bring the man home. It’s so easy to see. And bring back Klesko as our power bat for the outfield—but Klesko bats lefthanded, doesn’t he? Well rats … torch the whole idea then.
By Bubdylan
November 20, 2008 11:56 PM | Link to this
malapropism?? Damn. shuts down computer. goes to bed.
By Flustered Fan
November 20, 2008 11:58 PM | Link to this
easy Random, cool your jets.
By Flustered Fan
November 20, 2008 11:59 PM | Link to this
Random, I do have a sense of humor. I look in the mirror everyday, my friend. No hard feelings, please.
By Saff
November 21, 2008 12:01 AM | Link to this
DOB In the chat today Frank Wren said he has talked to Kenny Williams and discussed some names of course he will not say who. The best match from the white sox for the Braves would be Jermaine Dye he is a power hitting right handed outfielder that fits a hole we need. Have you heard anything about this, also do you agree this would be a good trade? Moving towards the rotation does your gut feeling say we get Burnett, Lowe, or neither?
By Random
November 21, 2008 12:01 AM | Link to this
THE BEAR: “Wren made a couple of interesting statements… . About KJ. ‘Johnson is a natural shortstop who we changed to an outfielder and then brought back at second and he is improving dramatically with his play at that position.’ … Note: I am paraphrasing both but they are close to actual quotes.”
Wow!!! I’m surprised no one here has followed up on this.
If the Braves do trade Escobar, how unreasonable would it be to have the serious options of either (a) backfilling somehow (trade/FA) at SS or (b) sliding KJ to SS and backfilling at 2B, with either Prado, trade or FA?
This is totally intriguing to me, for some reason.
DOB has previously repeatedly pooh-poohed the notion of sliding KJ back to LF, which is a totally pooh-poohable suggestion, but KJ to SS??? Things that make you go “Hmmmmm.”
By TennesseePaul
November 21, 2008 12:02 AM | Link to this
He also doesn’t feel pressured to spend the 45 million
News to me. I’ve been told this team wouldn’t ever enter the season with a $60 million dollar payroll.
I doubt they will. I understand his statement. He doesn’t have to spend it wouldn’t improve the team. I’d rather him not in that case. He could blow it real fast by making Burnett a higher paid pitcher than CC. It’d be the oddest thing in the world to do. Spend that much on AJ you might as well be bidding on CC.
Whatever he does I hope he can address Chipper’s contract and get him wrapped up for a while. Chipper has said he’d like to play for 4 more years or so. I hope he can. I’d love to see him get to 500 homers as a Brave.
By Random
November 21, 2008 12:12 AM | Link to this
tennessejed: “Frank Wren said in his chat today that the Peavy talks are off, and that they are looking elsewhere. He thinks Paul Byrd would be a great addition. He also mentioned that Diaz is still a good hitter and has worked hard in the offseason and is in great shape. He also doesn’t feel pressured to spend the 45 million. 09 here we come!!”
nolie, I think Byrd would not be a bad acquisition at all as the 3rd pitcher the Braves pick up in the off-season, but I too think they should definitely set their sights higher for the first two — eyes on the prize. Prizes. Eyeses on the prizes. Peavy and Lowe/Burnett.
And I think Diaz would still be worth it as an almost “elite” RH batter. But not as the slugging OF the Braves are seeking. Depending on what happens with Norton, he may be squeezed off the 25-man roster. Because of the numbers. 25. 25 numbers. You know?
By braves n dawgs
November 21, 2008 12:13 AM | Link to this
Kelly Johnson is a mediocre at best defensive 2nd baseman. Why in the world do you think he could play shortstop, a position that’s probably 5 times more difficult defensively?
By Dixie Dawg
November 21, 2008 12:14 AM | Link to this
Is Furcal still available?
By nolie
November 21, 2008 12:18 AM | Link to this
DOB has previously repeatedly pooh-poohed the notion of sliding KJ back to LF, which is a totally pooh-poohable suggestion, but KJ to SS??? Things that make you go “Hmmmmm.”Random
Hmmm. I really didn’t get that as a possibility from reading those comments. Just aspraise for his athleticism and hard work. Perhaps I wasn’t paying enough attention. But i do remember how abysmal he was as a young SS, so perhaps that influenced my thinking too. I would be VERY surprised to see them play him at SS in the bigs.
By Dixie Dawg
November 21, 2008 12:21 AM | Link to this
Paul Byrd is still not too old to have a good impact.
By Nocturnal Owl
November 21, 2008 12:25 AM | Link to this
Dixie Dawg According to Jeff Passan, Furcal has been offered many three-year deals, but he wants a four-year contract. Furcal’s agent, Paul Kinzer confirmed that the Orioles, Braves, Giants, Cubs, Dodgers and A’s are interested, along with one unnamed “mystery” team TR
I just don’t see it happening with his four year demand. Thats not even factoring the 4 or 5 they would have a bidding war with.
Might have to look at other options..
maybe we should give Flustered Fan a break he is flustered after all……..;)
By Random
November 21, 2008 12:31 AM | Link to this
braves n dawgs: “Kelly Johnson is a mediocre at best defensive 2nd baseman. Why in the world do you think he could play shortstop, a position that’s probably 5 times more difficult defensively?”
Because Frank Wren said so? (Or did he?)
nolie — well, maybe you’re probably right; I may have totally misinterpreted Wren’s remarks. (I should say “probably misinterpreted”, upon further re-reading.)
I really don’t remember how bad or good KJ was at SS — I’ll take both y’all’s word for it.
I guess I jumped the gun and went off half-cocked, little snake that I am. (Small joke there for the resident herpetologists.)
Oh, well — thanks for the gentle corrections, gents.
By Chuck James is solid until the 6th!! (Formerly Steve-O)
November 21, 2008 12:34 AM | Link to this
Yeh man I can see 2 episodes maybe 3 in Queens then somethin will pop with Ari, you can’t get rid of him can you? He is an epic charachter, my favorite scene being when he tracks down Adam Davies, just perfect…
I agree all charachters in Always Sunny are great but Charlie just has that extra perfection. Ya know?
By mitchie-san
November 21, 2008 12:41 AM | Link to this
Arigato for the plug, Random.
By Dixie Dawg
November 21, 2008 12:46 AM | Link to this
Heh heh, Owl, shooting you a wink and pointing an index finger. Thanks.
By uga-brave
November 21, 2008 12:47 AM | Link to this
just got back from the thrashers game. good game even though the thrashers lost.
sat in section 103 not too far behind the owners box and a couple of fans were really giving it to rutherford seidel. for those who dont know he is the son-in-law of TED and a 10% owner in the atlanta spirit.
he is also a whiney pseudo millionaire crying poverty. he says he is being forced to sell his stake because the franchises are losing money?
note to RUT , basically you have owned two sports franchises where half the league gets into the playoffs.
atlanta spirit have owned both these franchises five years, two playoff appearances combined.
By Random
November 21, 2008 12:57 AM | Link to this
mitchie-san—
Doitashi mashite.
And Aloha nui loa!!! (Is that right?)
Shoulda known you’d still be up. What are you doing in HI?
(Or are you going to make me go back and look up your previous explanations to DOB? I’d do that for you, y’know.)
nolie— What probably screwed me up is I focused too much on Wren’s lead-in: “Johnson is a natural shortstop”
is, not was. I probably read too much into that single word.
I guess ol’ what’s-‘is-name was right — it all really does depend on what the meaning of “is” is.
Nytol.
By McRomanGirl Fann
November 21, 2008 1:10 AM | Link to this
Wherever Hanson’s ceiling is, it’s lower than Roman Girl’s ceiling.
The only thing that would make an attractive girl more attractive would be finding out that she is a knowlegable baseball fan.
Wish the old lady knew what a scouting report was.
By uga-brave
November 21, 2008 1:19 AM | Link to this
kinda funny how the two major league players the braves have offered up are not bobby favorites.
dob, may or may not confirm this but bobby pretty much blew a fuse on boyer when he lied about his health coming out of spring training in 2006. he had a great 2005 call up and the braves were to depend on him in 2006.
boyer said his arm felt fine all spring, threw two games on the west coast and that was his selfish arse season.
without blaine, who definitely has a high opinion of himself, boyer we would of never had ken “THE DEATH,’ray who had his moments.
esco is definitely not a bobby guy. laugh if you want but i will defer to #6.
the guy has a eye for long term talent.
that’s why i have never said trade francoeur.
been critical of the fact that he played everyday, but i never was critical of his effort.
so we will see. hard not to pull for the guy as a person.
he is one of those athletes that gets it or sure says the right things when being interviewed in the off season.
By BA
November 21, 2008 1:28 AM | Link to this
If the Braves traded Escobar, Morton, and Hernandez (please, don’t trade Hernandez) for Jake Peavy, and Peavy had to have Tommy Johnson surgery a month into the spring, and missed a year- it would STILL have been worth it. That’s how valuable an ace is these days, and that’s how ridiculously cheap his contract is, compared to Santana, Sabathia, etc.
And comparing trading five players for an ace (with four more years on his contract) is in NO way comparable to trading five players for Teixeira (with one year left on his deal). Whether you think the Teixeira trade was good or bad, the scenarios are just completely different.
By BayAreaSteve
November 21, 2008 1:53 AM | Link to this
Bubdylan, 11:19, freakin’ beautiful.
Poetry, sir.
Oh yeah, where’s whiskey?
By mitchie-san
November 21, 2008 2:03 AM | Link to this
Random Mahalo!. I left Japan about a year ago and got orders to Hawaii. ( I’m in the U.S. Navy ) Its still early to me over here…about 9pm for me. Usually everyone is asleep while I read all the posts from throughout the day. That makes for me to not be able to ge into too many converations (arguments???) with the rest of the Denziens. I usually just post my thoughts after I take in all the different ideas.
By BayAreaSteve
November 21, 2008 2:10 AM | Link to this
I can’t believe that scoots is 5’2” and couldn’t hit his way out of a wet paper bag.
scoots…an educated Juan Pierre?
By nolie
November 21, 2008 2:11 AM | Link to this
nolie— What probably screwed me up is I focused too much on Wren’s lead-in: “Johnson is a natural shortstop”
is, not was. I probably read too much into that single word.Random
hey, you might be right. I wasn’t correcting you, just offering what i thought was a more likely interpretation. I could as easily have misinterpreted it as you. One never knows for sure, do one?
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
November 21, 2008 2:16 AM | Link to this
Ok, I’m tired of arguing with two bloggers in particular. So, it’s time to educate and teach the gangster ninja’s.
Steve in Ohio wrote at 7:02 PM:
Look, man, I do agree with you that a championship team builds around pitching and defense (and in my younger days, I would have agreed on the speed, too. But times change. Get over it and get with the times, dude). But when you suggest that we play inferior offensive players because they’re fast and “speed never slumps,” or whatever catchphrase you want to use, it’s just silly. It makes zero sense.
JimD wrote at 8:38 PM:
Today’s smaller parks and their natural grass along with the natural evolution of the game keep speed from being as much of a weapon as it once.
But, to Coach’s credit, speed is still a valuable tool. Obviously, all things equal I would choose the more mobile player over the more cumbersome one. It’s just that speed doesn’t kill anymore, but it does irritate.
The both of you are uninformed, ignorant and completely self absorbed to the point of being stupid and here is why.
The running game is back and it’s been that way for the past five years. The success rate of the stolen base has exploded as the following stats prove it.
In 2004 base runners were able to steal successfully 70.2 percent of the time.
2005 = 70.6 percent
2006 = 71.4 percent
2007 = 74.4 percent
2008 = 73.0 percent
Now, anybody with half a brain in the game of baseball knows that once that 70 percent barrier is broken, run production goes up and the value of the stolen base outweighs the risk of making an out. It’s a fact, jack.
Now, to explain why I believe that what Whitey Herzog taught and practiced is even more successful today than ever before. And it is because the game of baseball is finally being played in it’s T-O-T-A-L-I-T-Y. I know, it’s a big word.
Simply put, teams that run and hit HR’s are going to be more successful than teams that don’t and here is the proof. Ten of the following eleven teams did just that this past year, including the one that Won it all and the team they beat.
Boston Red Sox 95-67, 173 HR’s and 120 SB’s
L.A. Angels 100-62, 159 HR’s and 129 SB’s
N.Y. Mets 89-72, 172 HR’s and 138 SB’s
Tampa Bay Rays 97-65, 180 HR’s and 142 SB’s
Philadelphia Phillies 92-70, 214 HR’s and 136 SB’s
Milwaukee Brewers 90-72, 198 HR’s and 108 SB’s
N.Y. Yankees 89-75, 180 HR’s and 118 SB’s
Minnesota Twins 88-75, 111 HR’s and 102 SB’s
Houston Astros 86-75, 167 HR’s and 114 SB’s
Colorado Rockies 74-88, 160 HR’s and 141 SB’s. It should be noted that they played in the 2007 WS.
Ten out of eleven had winning records. All eleven breached the century mark in HR’s and Stolen bases and six made the playoffs.
It should also be noted that both the Cubs and White Sox were knocked out of the playoffs in the first round. both were top heavy in HR hitters and lacking in the base running department.
Teams that hit the HR and steal bases are going to be more successful than teams which rely solely on the HR (Earl Weaver is rolling in his grave). Pitching and defense go hand in hand, as does the the HR and SB.
Speed kills, the stolen base does not slump (especially in the playoffs), baseball is meant to be played in it’s TOTALITY. Class dismissed !
By nolie
November 21, 2008 2:27 AM | Link to this
Frank Wren chat transcript Busy GM talks Hot Stove with Braves fans online
Frank Wren, the Braves’ executive vice president and general manager, answered questions from fans in a live Web chat on Thursday. Wren discussed the state of the starting rotation, who is and isn’t on the trading block, Jake Peavy and other trade rumors, Bobby Cox’s future and Ken Griffey Sr. Read what else Wren said in the chat transcript below.
Wren: Welcome, everyone. It seems like the offseason has been going on for six months instead of a month and a half. I’ll try to answer as many questions as possible.
glenn1981: What pitchers are you targeting, if any, in the trade world?
Wren: That is one, as you can imagine, that would be tough to answer publicly. Let’s just say we have several pitchers we have targeted.
proga91111: Are there any possibilities to have Tommy Hanson in the rotation for the start of next year?
Wren: Tommy has been tremendous in Arizona, we will let him continue to “show us” where he needs to pitch next year.
atlbrave82: Is Jordan Schafer going to get a chance to play center field this spring for Atlanta?
Wren: He was playing in Mexico until last week when he injured a finger and had to come home. He will be in the mix and I would say right now he is penciled in for Triple-A.
bigdaddy2: Has any thought being given to converting Tyler Flowers to a corner outfielder while still using him as the backup catcher every fifth day?
Wren: Tyler has played first base when he was rehabbing his knee in ‘07, but I think the outfield might be a bit of a stretch for him. He also has been very good in Arizona, as most of you know.
atlbrave82: Is Mike Hampton willing to come back at a large discount since he did not play much and was paid very well for a few years?
Wren: I think Mike is interested in coming back, and we will see where the negotiations end up. I know he likes this organization.
atlbrave82: I have heard that Rafael Furcal would be willing to come back to Atlanta for a discount price. If we trade Yunel Escobar, is that a possibilty?
Wren: I don’t want to get the cart before the horse, but in our discussions, Rafael would like to come back if the opportunity presented itself.
Thanatos: What will the Braves’ budget be in 2009?
Wren: It will be up again from last year. That is the third year in a row we have increased our payroll.
wdtr: What luck are you having at finding starting pitching since the Jake Peavy deal?
Wren: It’s a little early to tell. We have a lot of “lines in the water” and we will see if we can get some bites.
krickeys: What kind of inroads are being made with international scouting?
Wren: We didn’t really have to make inroads since we have one of, if not the strongest, international scouting staffs in the game. Johnny Almaraz and his staff are very highly thought of and extremely productive for us.
Thanatos: What was it like replacing what many consider a legend like John Schuerholz?
Wren: Having worked alongside John for so many years, I can’t try to be like John, but we have very similar views about putting a team together.
marsh10: Hey Frank, I’m going to work in a minute and wanted to know how the Peavy deal is going? And also, who are you looking at to man the outfield as a right-handed power hitter?
Wren: As we said last week, we have turned our focus in other directions. We are looking for a productive bat in the outfield, but they are scarce as well.
ozzy99: How will Tom Glavine and John Smoltz fit into next year’s rotation with the hopeful addition of some offseason pitching prospects along with young guns Jair Jurrjens and Jorge Campillo?
Wren: They will be great additions to our staff if and when they can pitch. We have to go about our offseason planning as if they won’t be back and then adjust if they are.
santori34: What are you doing about starting pitching and relievers? It was a serious problem last year.
Wren: Our starting pitching was a strength until all the injuries, and our bullpen should be very good with Peter Moylan and Rafael Soriano being healthy and with Mike Gonzalez for the whole year. We clearly have to acquire some starting pitching.
falcons360: Hey Frank, when are we going to get a pitcher?
Wren: I wish I knew. Hopefully soon.
Thanatos: We have all heard how you are currently trying to acquire pitching. What will you be looking at upgrading on the offensive side?
Wren: We need more production from our outfield, for sure.
krice42: Mr. Wren, what are your opinions on the use of instant replay?
Wren: I like the way it is being used at present, and we will see in the future if there is a desire to expand it.
kylan: How much of what goes on between GMs this time of year is “smoke-screening”?
Wren: Probably a lot. We all have our own styles of dealing with the media. Some are very open and others very closed. In today’s world, the media will run with any tidbit to beat the other guy. Sometimes it is with a little truth and a whole lot of supposition, as we saw firsthand in the Peavy story.
Thanatos: What is the plan if Jeff Francouer struggles again next year? Will you try to acquire a solid outfielder to back him up?
Hot Stove
Wren: We are counting on that not happening. There just aren’t that many solid guys available to start backing up your regulars, but we will have some depth in our outfield.
miguel561: What is the possibility that you could sign A.J. Burnett, knowing there are a lot of clubs after him?
Wren: It’s way too early to know the answer to that one. We would like to have him in our rotation, though.
Thanatos: How long till Tommy Hanson is a Major League starting pitcher?
Wren: Not too long. I’m not sure if that is sometime in ‘09 or the beginning of ‘10, but it’s not too far away.
Thanatos: Which arbitration-eligible player do you see getting a large pay raise?
Wren: All of our first-time arbitration-eligible players will get rather large raises, but we don’t have anyone off the charts like Ryan Howard last year.
BBKing: Is Escobar the only Brave on the trading block?
Wren: Escobar is not on the trading block. We have conversations about players regularly, but that doesn’t mean they are on “the block” — it just means they are desired by other clubs.
Thanatos: How did you get started in baseball?
Wren: I played in the Minor Leagues for five years, coached for four years and have been in the front office for 23 years.
Thanatos: What is your relationship with other GMs? Any that you prefer to avoid? Any that you would prefer to trade with?
Wren: Like anything else, there are only 30 GMs in the game, so we all are pretty friendly. There are none I avoid, but there are some that I prefer to deal with.
Thanatos: Tyler Flowers is blooming in the AFL, what is the future for him since Brian McCann is behind the plate?
Wren: We see him as a quality young power hitter and developing as a solid catcher. A lot of things can happen between now and when he arrives in the big leagues.
atticus11: Have there been any new talks with the Padres about acquiring Peavy?
Wren: No.
ukmatt2: Mr. Wren, congratulations on a positive start to your time as GM. How close are we to putting out a starting team as of today? Do you think the likes of Matt Diaz and Casey Kotchman are players that will help us move forwards as a team?
Wren: Thank you. We have our infield in place and we are still working on our outfield. I think Casey can clearly be part of our team going forward, and if we didn’t think so, clubs would line up for him based on the interest from other GMs. Matt had a tough year with the injury, but he is still a good hitter and has dedicated himself this winter and is in great shape.
Thanatos: Eventually, Bobby Cox will retire. Is there a person that you and the Braves are grooming to take over for him when the time comes?
Wren: Not yet. We will cross that bridge when the time comes.
onespeed: Frank, I was hoping you could share your view as a GM on how much you rely on statistical analysis (sabermetrics) when trying to fill out your 25-man roster?
Wren: It is one piece of the puzzle. It is important to understand the statistical “profile” for each position to help put the team together.
Thanatos: Have the Braves considered bringing Julio Franco back as a coach?
Wren: We have discussed the idea, but we don’t have a spot for him at this time.
gforce2: Have you received any indication from John Smoltz that he intends to pitch in 2009 ?
Wren: I talked to him last week, and he plans to try.
Thanatos: What percentage of Braves games do you attend in a season?
Wren: All home games and maybe 20 road games. I try to go see our Minor League teams when the big club goes out of town.
braves1524: What’s the chance of getting Ryan Ludwick this season?
Wren: I can’t discuss other teams’ players.
Thanatos: Who is your favorite ballplayer of all time?
Wren: Ken Griffey Sr. I bet that’s a surprise. I grew up a big Reds fan, and I loved his combination of speed and athleticism.
jakeyb1:Good day, Mr. Wren. I was wondering about Anthony Lerew’s status. Is he still with the organization? If so, how is he progressing?
Wren: He is pitching in Puerto Rico this winter. He had a lost year in ‘08 recovering from Tommy John surgery.
whirlic: Hi Frank. I think you have been doing a great job. What are we going to do about getting some new pitching? If we could sign Burnett, I would be ecstatic. I wish you continued success.
Wren: Thanks. I would take that, too!
jurrjens87: Have the Braves ever thought of maybe bringing Paul Byrd back and what’s the latest on Junichi Tazawa?
Wren: We have discussed Paul. He is a tremendous teammate and a dependable starting pitcher. Tazawa is still pitching for his industrial league team and has not finished his season, and therefore. he can’t sign yet.
preacherj: Frank, thanks for taking my question. In looking for a power bat in the outfield, how much does left- vs. right-handed play into things? We have several lefties that could hit consecutively it seems. Does this affect if you look only for a right-handed bat?
Wren: We would prefer a right-handed bat, because of our left-handed hitters we already have. And the vast majority of our kids coming are left-handed hitters. But if you look at our key returning guys, McCann, Kelly Johnson and Kotchman, they all hit left-handed pitchers as well or better than they hit right-handers. We can go either way, really.
lumbajack: With $40 million plus to spend this offseason, is there pressure to have to spend that money so the budget doesn’t get cut the next year?
Wren: No, that’s not an issue. The bigger issue is we want to build for the very long haul, so we want to hold onto our kids and to sign the right guys to supplement a very talented crop of young players. That is the bigger consideration.
onespeed: Are you ever frustrated by the MLB scheduling, especially when it comes to playing so many games within your division as well as how the strength of schedule for different teams varies so much during Interleague Play?
Wren: It is an argument that always come up, and it does frustrate you sometimes. It can’t be helped with the American League and the National League not being equal size. The divisions are not all equal size and traditional rivals not being the same strength. There are lots of difficult issues to deal with.
preacherj: Any indication on who will be the closer going into 2009? Is that completely Bobby’s call?
Wren: That is Bobby’s call, but based on ‘08, I think Gonzo will be the guy to beat when we report to Disney.
Thanatos:Who will be the big free agents from the Braves next year? Will you attempt to lock any up long-term before next offseason?
Wren: Our only free agents next year will be Gonzo, Soriano and Omar Infante. We’ll evaluate that later in the season.
braves1090: I’ve heard a lot of trade rumors involving Chicago White Sox and former Braves outfileder Jermaine Dye. Have you had any conversations with the White Sox’s GM?
Wren: I have had several conversations with Kenny Williams, but I can’t say who we talked about.
atlbrave82: Mr. Wren, I am from Atlanta, living in San Diego. I was wondering if Bobby Cox retires after this year, what are the chances of Terry Pendleton getting a shot as manager of the the Braves?
Wren: Terry is a very bright guy, and I think if he wants to manage, he will get consideration, as he has for other open managerial jobs in the past.
preacherj: Mr. Wren, any new word on how Smoltz/Glavine are doing this offseason?
Wren: They are both doing very well.
tpetrusa: Frank, what are the chances, if any, that we might be dealing with K.C. for their newly acquired Coco Crisp as a center-field option for 2009?
Wren:Unlikely.
hunterb55: Is Manny Ramirez a possible Braves player?
Wren: I don’t think so. He is very talented, though.
foo_g: Has it been discussed to move Chipper Jones to first base in an attempt to decrease the potential for injuries and ensure that his bat stays in the lineup? Does Casey Kotchman have the versatility to play some outfield under these circumstances?
Wren: Chipper is still a very good third baseman. His injuries by and large have nothing to do with the position he plays, so we are happy to leave him right there. He also wants to stay there.
koolmap: What are the chances that we can get two top-notch, front-of-the-rotation guys this offseason?
Wren: That’s our goal. But it is a limited market. We’ll have to see how it ends up.
snealinda: We haven’t seen much action in the free-agent/trading market with the Braves yet? Can we expect some type of movement soon?
Wren: The market as a whole has been slow. We have a lot of things we are working on. Hopefully soon.
atlbrave82: Have there been any recent talks with the Padres about Peavy, and are they really asking for too much or is it the no-trade clause that is the concern?
Wren: We never got that far.
Thanatos: Will you attempt to acquire a shortstop in the offseason, or trust that Escobar will not be traded?
Wren: Escobar is our shortstop.
ajax1031: Do you really think that resigning Hampton is a good idea? Don’t we need to get away from injury-prone players?
Wren: I think Mike is still a very good pitcher.
mattress25: Mr. Wren, are there any prospects in the Minors that are being overshadowed by Tommy Hanson, Jordan Schafer, etc., who may surprise us and may make the team out of Spring Training, as Gregor Blanco did in 2008?
Wren: I think our depth in our system is what makes us a prime trading partner for so many other clubs. We have enough depth at several positions that we can trade young players to fill needs without hurting our long-term plans. There are a couple names that come to mind, but I don’t want to put undue pressure on them by naming them here.
todd13: Do you think the Braves might want Brian Fuentes?
Wren: That’s really not a need of ours.
rbt778: Kelly Johnson is a natural left fielder and a pretty good No. 7 hitter. How about Dye or Ordonez trade for power bat and let Hernandez or Blanco go for the trade?
Wren: Kelly is a natural shortstop who we moved to left field, and he had a tremendous last six weeks and he is getting better at second base all the time.
Thanatos: What is the hardest thing about being a general manager in the MLB?
Wren: The amount of time spent dealing with non-baseball issues — media, agents etc. I have no complaints, but that’s just the hardest.
mattress25: Mr. Wren, how do you see the bullpen stacking up for 2009 with Mike Gonzalez closing and hopefully getting Rafael Soriano and Peter Moylan healthy?
Wren: Thats our strength, we think.
snealinda: We haven’t seen any action from the Braves yet this offseason. Should we be concerned as fans that we will not make many moves to improve?
Wren: It’s very early. Most things happen after Thanksgiving and Dec 1 — the arbitration offer date to free agents.
Wren: Thanks for all the questions, and we are working hard to put the best team on the field in ‘09 and beyond.
By Roll the hole
November 21, 2008 2:34 AM | Link to this
Speed kills, the stolen base does not slump (especially in the playoffs), baseball is meant to be played in it’s TOTALITY. Class dismissed !*Coach8
LOL. you are such a complete jack-azz, guy. You have still never explained how the Braves scored more runs that the Mets in ‘07, when the Mets stole three times as many bases as the Braves. They’re right, you really do need to get laid, dude.
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
November 21, 2008 2:41 AM | Link to this
Ok, I’m tired of arguing with two bloggers in particular. So, it’s time to educate and teach the gangster ninja’s.
Steve in Ohio wrote at 7:02:
Look, man, I do agree with you that a championship team builds around pitching and defense (and in my younger days, I would have agreed on the speed, too. But times change. Get over it and get with the times, dude). But when you suggest that we play inferior offensive players because they’re fast and “speed never slumps,” or whatever catchphrase you want to use, it’s just silly. It makes zero sense.
JimD wrote at 8:38:
Today’s smaller parks and their natural grass along with the natural evolution of the game keep speed from being as much of a weapon as it once.
But, to Coach’s credit, speed is still a valuable tool. Obviously, all things equal I would choose the more mobile player over the more cumbersome one. It’s just that speed doesn’t kill anymore, but it does irritate.
The both of you are uninformed, ignorant and completely self absorbed to the point of being stupid and here is why.
The running game is back and it’s been that way for the past five years. The success rate of the stolen base has exploded as the following stats prove it.
In 2004 base runners were able to steal successfully 70.2 percent of the time.
2005 = 70.6 percent
2006 = 71.4 percent
2007 = 74.4 percent
2008 = 73.0 percent
Now, anybody with half a brain in the game of baseball knows that once that 70 percent barrier is broken, run production goes up and the value of the stolen base outweighs the risk of making an out. It’s a fact, jack.
Now, to explain why I believe that what Whitey Herzog taught and practiced is even more successful today than ever before. And it is because the game of baseball is finally being played in it’s T-O-T-A-L-I-T-Y. I know, it’s a big word.
Simply put, teams that run and hit HR’s are going to be more successful than teams that don’t and here is the proof. Ten of the following eleven teams did just that this past year, including the one that Won it all and the team they beat.
Boston Red Sox 95-67, 173 HR’s and 120 SB’s
L.A. Angels 100-62, 159 HR’s and 129 SB’s
N.Y. Mets 89-72, 172 HR’s and 138 SB’s
Tampa Bay Rays 97-65, 180 HR’s and 142 SB’s
Philadelphia Phillies 92-70, 214 HR’s and 136 SB’s
Milwaukee Brewers 90-72, 198 HR’s and 108 SB’s
N.Y. Yankees 89-75, 180 HR’s and 118 SB’s
Minnesota Twins 88-75, 111 HR’s and 102 SB’s
Houston Astros 86-75, 167 HR’s and 114 SB’s
Colorado Rockies 74-88, 160 HR’s and 141 SB’s. It should be noted that they played in the 2007 WS.
Ten out of eleven had winning records. All eleven breached the century mark in HR’s and Stolen bases and six made the playoffs.
It should also be noted that both the Cubs and White Sox were knocked out of the playoffs in the first round. both were top heavy in HR hitters and lacking in the base running department.
Teams that hit the HR and steal bases are going to be more successful than teams which rely solely on the HR (Earl Weaver is rolling in his grave). Pitching and defense go hand in hand, as does the the HR and SB.
Speed kills, the stolen base does not slump (especially in the playoffs), baseball is meant to be played in it’s TOTALITY. Class dismissed !
By It should NOT be noted
November 21, 2008 3:02 AM | Link to this
class dismissed?! What are you, Chris Tucker? That post largely meant nothing. None of those statistics were particularly relevant. What class are you teaching? That post was dumb enough the first time, Captain Obvious. I just got the crummy taste out of my mouth by reading nolie’s nice link (thanks, nol) and then I see a duplicate of the SAME crappy post…
What the eff is a ganster ninja?!
By Roll The Hole
November 21, 2008 3:02 AM | Link to this
Coochie poo
LOL. Posting it twice doesn’t make it any more right. You’re still an atavistic misanthropic baseball neanderthal
By GermanBravesFan
November 21, 2008 3:47 AM | Link to this
If the Braves want to make a splash this off-season, why not try to sign C.C. Sabathia? Pay him $20 mill per year, then add either Randy Johnson or Mike Hampton for $8 mill., trade K.J. for Ludwick and still have about $10 mill left (of which $4 mill could go to Ohman and the rest to either Smoltz or Glavine or both)… That way, the Braves keep Escobar and a bunch of other good young players!
By nolie
November 21, 2008 4:02 AM | Link to this
If the Braves want to make a splash this off-season, why not try to sign C.C. Sabathia? Pay him $20 mill per yearGerman
I’d love to see cc, si !,.. but It’s probably gonna take a good bit more than 2o mil per year to sign CC. plus he has a preference for the left coast which means it would really take top dollar to sign him for Atlanta. Wren has stated that they arepretty much not interested in pursuing him.
Personally I’m not so sure that i would trade KJ for Ludwick. Some questions whether he(Lud) would have nearly as good a year again.
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
November 21, 2008 4:03 AM | Link to this
Which two teams are the fastest in the major leagues? and why does it spell doom for our Braves in 2009?
I’m not giving the answer to either question. The less than knowledgeable will have to figure it out for themselves.
O yea, I’m just getting started, it’s gonna be a long off season.
By nolie
November 21, 2008 4:24 AM | Link to this
Gee Coach, I see you are still craving that negative attention. That’s kinda sad IMO. Isn’t there some way that you can work on improving your self image? It likely would make you a happier person in the long run.
By GermanBravesFan
November 21, 2008 4:56 AM | Link to this
Nolie…
It would be worth a try to get C.C., though. Even at $22 mill per year, there would be some $$$ left to get another solid second starter (could Jurrjens be a #2 for the Braves next season?) such as Randy Johnson (one-year contract?) or even Mike Hampton… The Braves will have plenty of arms left for the number 4 and 5 slots.
As for an additional outfielder, I am still a big fan of Raul Ibanez. I wonder how much it would take to get him. Perhaps sign him to a 2-year deal with an option for a third year…
Under this scenario, the Braves won’t have to trade anyone…
I am not sure if Burnett would warrant a big contract given his history of injuries. Lowe would be good, but with Scott Boras being his agent, it would mean overpaying for him as well…
By nolie
November 21, 2008 5:08 AM | Link to this
It would be worth a try to get C.C., though. Even at $22 mill per year, there would be some $$$ left to get another solid second starter (could Jurrjens be a #2 for the Braves next season?German
yeah, many of us think the same thing, and it seems like paying Peavy 17-18 mil plus the cost of a replacement SS would about equal what they might sign CC for, but according to Dave and some other columns, they claim to not be interested in that approach. The Yanks offered 6 years for around 140 mil >. 23 mil per, and he has not accepted it, so it might end up going to 25 mil per. I’ve said all along that I do not expect them to sign any big name FAs. I think Wolf,Byrd Perez are more likely the level that they will sign. Hope I’m wrong. we’ll see
By GermanBravesFan
November 21, 2008 5:20 AM | Link to this
Nolie…
I guess it is one thing to offer a free agent a contract and another thing of him accepting it. I would like the Braves at least try and approach Sabathia. As you said, trading for Peavy will cost the Braves their starting short stop whom they will most likely replace by a free agent who will cost $$$. In addition to their starting short stop, the Braves will lose one of their young starting pitchers. I would have to lose Morton since he could probably be a good #5 next year (with Hanson #4)… I would not mind, however, losing Kelly Johnson if that yields the Braves a solid LF which Ryan Ludwick might be.
I am sorry, but Wolf, Perez and Byrd do not strike me as top-of-the-rotation pitchers. Perez might be a solid #3 but not more.
After a few years of mediocrity (and I am including the last two years where the Braves made the playoffs), it is time to create some excitement again!!!
By GermanBravesFan
November 21, 2008 5:27 AM | Link to this
sorry… I meant “I would hate to lose Morton”…
By BravesFanFirst
November 21, 2008 5:49 AM | Link to this
Coach Way To Hold Class!! You made complete sense and tied it to results on the field and in the playoffs! Bravo Sir! Some of us have been arguing for more speed on the Braves but you know how it goes when you go against the herd mentality of the blog.You know they will come back at you with some fancy high-minded stat and call you names.Once Again…Way To Kick Butt!!
BTW…The Peavy Trade As Reported Will Be A Disaster.Any time this many people are pushing hard for something and ignore potential downside, bet against what they’re telling you.
By ncscoots
November 21, 2008 6:16 AM | Link to this
nolie, I think I’ll have to change my screen name; your image of me was a little disturbing, LOL.
I can’t believe that scoots is 5’2” and couldn’t hit his way out of a wet paper bag.
Not hardly, my man. Think Grady Sizemore, but faster. :-) Juan Pierre couldn’t carry my shoes, LOL.
By Nocturnal Owl
November 21, 2008 6:33 AM | Link to this
Peavy anyone? lol ncscoots
By Efrim
November 21, 2008 6:41 AM | Link to this
Roman Gal
Efrim On the last blog you posted a Q&A with Kieth Law where he said that he thinks Tommy Hanson has Ace potential.
I’m really glad to finally see that, because so far everything still said that he had a #2 ceiling. Thanks for posting that. It’s good to hear.
No problem. To be honest, this is the first time I have seen it from one of the guys over at ESPN. Baseball Prospectus’ Kevin Goldstein said he had ace potential in his Top 11 prospects list. If you are looking at Baseball America, then yes, they will refer to him as whatever their scouting reports said the previous year. That’s the one thing that bothers me about BA. To me, if Hanson had mid rotation projection last season, then how in the world has he not moved to front line guy this season? His velocity has increased, and his slider has become another out pitch for him. The guy has ace potential, which, like you said, is really good to hear.
By JimD
November 21, 2008 6:42 AM | Link to this
OK, Coach, a little statistical analysis for you, and I will try to make this a little more brief than your post.
1). Herzog managed the Cardinals 81-89, and part of 90. Nine plus years. They finished first three times. Won the WS once. If I recall your correctly one of your criticisms about Bobby Cox, then I think Herzog qualifies as a loser of a manager because he only won 1 WS with the Cardinals. So I don’t know why you now hold him up as a paragon of success.
2). Your stats in the earlier post actually DISPROVE the point you are making.
From 81-89, the Cardinals stole 88, 200, 207, 220, 315, 262, 248, 234, and 155 bases. Of course the 88 SBs in 1981 were in the strike shortened year.
AND Their homerun totals for those yrs were 50,67,83, 75, 87, 58, 94, 71, 73.
BUT in your sampling above those successful teams you suggested stole for the most part half the number of bases as did the Cardinals in their Herzog days and those teams hit twice some times three times more homers.
It just goes to show. It’s a different game today than it was in the 1980’s. The parks are different, the players are different, the strike zone is different (or at least enforced differently).
And coincidentally (or not) in 1985 Herzog’s Cardinals had their highest SB total (315) and their 2nd highest HR total (87) and they finished … . THIRD.
Coach, I am not saying speed is bad. I would rather have a good total athlete that can motor, than a slow, cumbersome jughead. BUT, the point I am trying to make is that you cannot sell out to the SB in today’s game. It just doesn’t work anymore. It is PART of a good offense, and the Braves would be better with more of it, but it is not all that and a bag of chips.
By JimD
November 21, 2008 7:20 AM | Link to this
Sorry, that wasn’t brief at all. But one other interesting tidbit -
In 1985, Herzog’s Cardinals played his former team, the KC Royals in the World Series. As we all remember, the Royals won in 7 (game 6 was one for all times).
That year, the World Champion KC Royals stole a “mere” 128 bases and hit 154 HRs. They were 5th in MLB in SB, but with a little more than 1/2 of StL’s total.
And one more thing (last one, I promise) …
Mr Stolen Base Manager Herzog = .532 winning percentage
Mr Evil, Worse Manager Ever Needs to Be Fired is a Big Dummy Cox = .557 winning percentage.
Maybe the teacher needs to go back and work on his masters.
By Elmer
November 21, 2008 7:23 AM | Link to this
It’a hard to see why a “big dog” would come to the Braves given the strength of the Mets and Phils.
By 18 Wheels of Love
November 21, 2008 7:31 AM | Link to this
DOB,
They’ve announced they have been given the greenlight for the Arrested Development movie. I would prefer a new series on FX but I’ll take a movie. Best show ever - it stays on a perpetual loop in my bedroom DVD player.
“I’ve made a huge mistake.”
By Dadgum
November 21, 2008 8:50 AM | Link to this
My Jackets put on a show for the nation last night!! To think Paul Johnson is doing this with inherited players in a new system is, well, coach of the year material. When Tech is good they’re great when they are bad they are Gailey-like.
Khalil Greene will NOT be playing for the Braves. Doubtful he could suit up for Clemson. Really.
Yes, the Braves would offer Furcal a multi-year at 10 mil per. If you get Peavy that is. Once they get their top dog and lose Escobar their next top priority will be a top-tier SS not pitcher. If Escobar stays and turns out to be the all-star caliber player we think he will be then he will command that kind of money in 2-3 years anyway. You can sleep comfortably knowing the Braves will spend a lot of money to get Furcal in my opinion.
Rock on…..The Good Word.
By kdbanks
November 21, 2008 8:54 AM | Link to this
DOB-
What are the chances the O’Flaherty makes the team as a starting SS, occasional backup C when McCann goes to first base, situational lefty and 4th starter? I really think he could make up the power gap in left too, given a shot.
By richbrave
November 21, 2008 9:02 AM | Link to this
We have a team waiting. Still nothing to report I see.
By atown
November 21, 2008 9:06 AM | Link to this
DOB,
I am on a constant Cash jag. “Big River” is in my top 5 and seeing it here made my morning. Thanks and keep up the good work.
By GermanBravesFan
November 21, 2008 9:07 AM | Link to this
dkbanks… when was it decided that McCann will play first base??
Dadgum - if the Braves get Peavy and add Furcal at $10 mill per year, who will be the second starter the left fielder?
By brave nut
November 21, 2008 9:12 AM | Link to this
Forget PEAVY !!! Lets use our young guys !! Like Matt Ryan throw them in and let them compete. If you look at all the One run games we lost last year and you win half of those and you are 4 or 5 back of the world champs!! PHILY I mean .. If Francouer can get back to his old self maybe we are only 2 back!! I mean cmon getting Peavy does not win the world series for us !! So why trade our young talent!! Lets go with what we have now !!!
By GermanBravesFan
November 21, 2008 9:19 AM | Link to this
brave nut - I guess you are implying that the Braves should not trade any of their young guys. But how about spending some of those $40 million to land some proven pitchers and a left fielder?
By THE BEAR
November 21, 2008 9:26 AM | Link to this
Random wrote at 12:01 November 21, 2008 12:01 AM
*THE BEAR: “Wren made a couple of interesting statements… . About KJ. ‘Johnson is a natural shortstop who we changed to an outfielder and then brought back at second and he is improving dramatically with his play at that position.’ … Note: I am paraphrasing both but they are close to actual quotes.”
Wow!!! I’m surprised no one here has followed up on*
Look, if you are going to be spending your time on this board attacking a group of people chatting about baseball you should at least quote us correctly. Here is what I wrote:
Wren made a couple of interesting statements.
In response to a question about Escobar he said, “Escobar is our Shortstop”
About KJ. “Johnson is a natural shortstop who we changed to an outfielder and then brought back at second and he is improving dramatically with his play at that position.”
Note: I am paraphrasing both but they are close to actual quotes.
Those are the couple of things I wrote and you only included the latter one. In other words you took one statement out of context. As for my using the word “paraphrasing,” I did just that. I paraphrased both statements for one reason; I no longer had access to the actual quote and I was writing from memory. Had I not used the paraphrase comment I would have been remiss.
If you have any more of your crap to direct at me you can forget it. I will not honor anything else you say with a reply. Frankly, uou aren’t worth the effort.
By Thundersticks
November 21, 2008 9:40 AM | Link to this
brave nut & GermanBravesFan - I agree. I would make a hard push for CC, trade for Maggs (Flowers & Boyer/Soriano), sign Ohman, Glavine/Hampton, Smoltz, and the bench guys and let’s go!!!
Lineup:
Schafer Escobar Chipper Maggs McCann Frenchy Kotchman Johson
Rotation:
CC Jurrjens Hampton or Glavine (Huddy’s spot) Reyes/Morton/Parr/Byrd (maybe) Hanson
Bullpen:
Soriano/Moylan/Smoltz Gonzalez Boyer (unless he’s traded) Ohman Acosta Campillo (long relief & spot starter)
Am I being unrealistic? I understand CC wants to go to the west coast. I would also be concerned with going 6 - 8 years on a SP, but what about going 4 years at $30 mil per year? OR if we go with a long term contract, how about a mutual opt-out clause in the middle? (ie 7 year deal where either the player or the team could opt-out after year 4)
By Bravedawg
November 21, 2008 9:44 AM | Link to this
DOB
“I’m sure glad you’re not comparing Dunn to Howard, since Howard has a .279 career average and has averaged 144 RBI the past three seasons, while Dunn has a .247 career average (lower each the past three seasons) and has averaged just below 100 RBI the past three seasons.”
DOB—I’m sure glad you’re not being exTREMELY condescending, while using some pretty unreliable stats like RBI (extremely dependent on the talent around you—you can’t knock ‘em in if they’re not gettin’ on base) or batting average (which doesn’t take into account BB). Because if you look at their park-adjusted OPS over the last 3 years, they’re exactly the same—.790.
By Bravedawg
November 21, 2008 9:51 AM | Link to this
And let me clarify—I’m not saying Dunn is as good as Howard; he’s not. But they’re not as far apart as many would think, because people still actually look at batting average when evaluating a player. Oh, and DOB…do you have to be so condescending sometimes? Geez.
By GermanBravesFan
November 21, 2008 9:51 AM | Link to this
Thundersticks: whom would you trade to Detroit for Ordoñez? I am sure the Tigers will want at least Escobar for him since they need a shortstop. How about Ibañez?
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 21, 2008 9:53 AM | Link to this
Wren: We see [Flowers] as a quality young power hitter and developing as a solid catcher. A lot of things can happen between now and when he arrives in the big leagues.
Ayeee!! What’s that supposed to mean??
By Thundersticks
November 21, 2008 10:02 AM | Link to this
GermanBravesFan:
brave nut & GermanBravesFan - I agree. I would make a hard push for CC, trade for Maggs (Flowers & Boyer/Soriano), sign Ohman, Glavine/Hampton, Smoltz, and the bench guys and let’s go!!!
I forgot they need a SS. I might offer Flowers, Lillibridge & Boyer.
By Lee in S GA
November 21, 2008 10:07 AM | Link to this
if the Braves get Peavy and add Furcal at $10 mill per year, who will be the second starter the left fielder?
My thoughts exactly. It on’t be any “big dogs” for sure. The money will be getting to scarce.
By GermanBravesFan
November 21, 2008 10:15 AM | Link to this
Thundersticks: if Lillibridge was good enough to play shortstop for the Tigers, I am sure he would be good enough to play for the Braves and Escobar could be traded without the need to sign a free agent for that position.
On the other hand, the Tigers do need a catcher. However, is Flowers ready to play right away?
Plus, the Tigers now know that the Braves are willing to part with Escobar if they can get a good enough player in return, so why wouldn’t they ask for Escobar then?
By Lew
November 21, 2008 10:16 AM | Link to this
Scoots-Now I know this is cheating a bit since I know your real name, but I always thought Scoots was just a play on your name/National origin.
Atavistic Misanthropic Baseball Neanderthal-That is almost Wurlitzer worthy-no matter who it refers to.
By ugacpa02
November 21, 2008 10:24 AM | Link to this
One thing Wren’s comment on Flowers means is that he isn’t going to be in Atlanta next year. He’s likely double A unless he explodes again in spring training. Thus in the year to two years until he’s scheduled to be a major league player anything could happen. He could disover a second position, get traded, get injured, develop a bad habit, take over for an injured McCann, anything.
By Rick Long
November 21, 2008 10:25 AM | Link to this
Why do I get the sinking feeling that all of this talk about finally having money to spend and being aggressive in signing two quality starters and a power hitting outfielder is going to fizzle into a whole bunch of nothing. I don’t know exactly who the Padres were asking for Peavy (and Wren will not and should not disclose that for obvious reasons. I also understand not including Hanson or Heyward in any proposed deal.
Having said all of that, for a team in dire need of rebuilding its rotation, there aren’t a lot of 27 year old TRUE aces like Peavy (I believe he is as good as the only really good, but unaffordable for the Braves, free agent starter, Sabathia). If there is still any chance of getting this done, Wren needs to explore it, particularly since it looks more and more like the only other two remaining free agents even worthy (but no more) of consideration, Lowe and Burnett are going elsewhere.
Another bad sign is the article in MLB.com about how Garland, Wolf and O. Perez (did Frank forget that other “stud”, Kyle Lohse?) could be “profitable gambles” for Atlanta. If this is what this all comes down to, I say spend the money on some legimitate position players rather than waste it by overpaying for these guys.
By Thundersticks
November 21, 2008 10:30 AM | Link to this
GermanBravesFan: Of course they could ask, but I don’t envision Wren trading Escobar for a bat - only for an ace SP. It could happen, but I don’t think it would.
I agree Lillibridge is not ready. Maybe they trade Maggs’ then they would have the $$$ to sign a SS.
I think Flowers is very close. Close enough to make the deal.
By the way, referencing your previous post, Ibanez is over-rated and old (in baseball years).
By Lew
November 21, 2008 10:31 AM | Link to this
Elmer-I think it’s quite reasonable to expect a “Big Dog” to want to come to Atlanta. Anyone with half a baseball brain is aware that the Braves problems the past few years (in 08 especially) revolve around not having the necessary pitching due to injury and lack of available salary to acquire who we needed. They would also be quite aware that the Braves have one of the best, most productive Farm Systems in all of baseball (continually).
Given that any “Big Dog” major league pitcher would almost necessarily have an ego just as large, they would likely be convinced that THEY were the missing piece to lead us back to success. What you and others don’t seem to realize ( but a “Big Dog” would) is that the Braves aren’t that far away-really just a couple pieces and a return to normalcy for a couple players-from winning again.
So many seem to think that the Phillies and Mets are worlds above us in talent level, assured of taking the division before a game has been played and it just isn’t so. The Mets still have numerous holes of their own to fill. Their rotation is not close to being set and their bullpen has sucked out loud for two years. Their 2B situation is still up in the air as well-possibly a couple other positions as well.
As for the Phillies-Is Moyer coming back at the same level at age 46? Is the rest of their rotation something we all need to fear? Is it even a vague possibility that Brad Lidge has another perfect season? How about losing their All Star 2b for the better part of to all of the season? How about replacing Burrell?
As anyone who has some baseball knowledge can see, the results of the 09 season have yet to be written. Y’all may want to hang it up as being an impossible situation, but then again, I suppose that doesn’t surprise me. It’s a typical party line for many Denizens.
By nolie
November 21, 2008 10:33 AM | Link to this
Yes, the Braves would offer Furcal a multi-year at 10 mil peDadgum
They might offer it, but he has already been offered 3 years at 13 mil per, so he likely wouldn’t accept it. He wants 4 years, which I doubt he will get, but there are some pretty desperate GMs out there so one never knows Besides I personally think the Peavy deal is over. Hope not.
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 21, 2008 10:37 AM | Link to this
ugacpa02 …take over for an injured McCann, anything.
Yeah…that’s what I’m afraid of.
NOT meaning I’m afraid of Flowers doing to McCann what McCann did to Estrada…Just afraid of Mac getting injured.
By Patrick
November 21, 2008 10:39 AM | Link to this
DOB,
I’ve been hearing rumors latley that the Braves were interested in and still are interested in Nick Swisher. Do you think the Braves could have pulled off a trade for him if there weren’t dealing with the Peavy negotiations??
By Lew
November 21, 2008 10:45 AM | Link to this
My mistake-Utley won’t miss the entire (or most of the) season-just a month or two. Nonetheless…..
By ncscoots
November 21, 2008 10:47 AM | Link to this
Lew, partly correct at 10:16, I guess, though I don’t know if I would gotten the same nickname if I had, say, McCann-like speed, LOL. Of course, his recent SB percentage is better than mine ever was. HA!
And, you’re right, you don’t get “Atavistic Misanthropic Baseball Neanderthal” on just any blog. Take that, Buster Olney!
By Thundersticks
November 21, 2008 10:47 AM | Link to this
Lew:
I couldn’t agree more. Sure the Braves have some work to do, but if they can make the moves Wren is talking about, I believe they will be in the playoff hunt next September. I’m not predicting they are going to win the WS, or even make the playoffs, but they won’t be out of it come July 31.
I would only do the Peavy trade if we can sign Furcal to replace Escobar. If Furcal signs somewhere else before the deal gets done, they I wouldn’t do it unless we can substitute KJ for Escobar.
By GermanBravesFan
November 21, 2008 10:48 AM | Link to this
Rick Long: The Braves are not including Hanson in the Peavy deal because Hanson might be a top-of-the-rotation-starter in a couple of years! He should be able to make the rotation next season (#5 starter?) and be a very inexpensive solid starter!
Tundersticks: I don’t think Ibañez is overrated. He has been solid over the past few years and he can still hit. I don’t know what type of contract he is looking for, but why not sign him to a two-year deal? Defensively, he could be backed up by one of the young outfielders the Braves have (or by Matt Diaz).
It would be interesting to know what Ryan Ludwick’s contract situation is. Maybe DOB can help out with that one… If Ludwick is not arbitration-eligible yet, it would be a good idea to trade Kelly Johnson for him (and have Infante or Prado take over at second base). However, it is obvious that the Braves want to wait and see if the Padres will come back to the table to discuss Peavy. If Escobar gets traded, KJ will stay…
By Efrim
November 21, 2008 10:56 AM | Link to this
The offseason is but 3 weeks old and there are people declaring all is lost for 2009? Lets wait until Christmas. I’m not saying the Braves will be favored or even in the same sentence with the Phillies or Mets, but you need to let things play out a bit here. Let’s see if Frank Wren can make some moves. We have a while until opening day. Heck, we have 17 days until the Winter meetings.
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
November 21, 2008 10:56 AM | Link to this
JimD, you should have never brought up Bobby Cox. That my friend was a mistake.
Cox has worst postseason record in MLB history. Bar none. He has lost more games in the postseason than any other manager. He has won the WS once and lost it four times including the back to back 1991-1992 WS. Cox has taken fifteen teams into the postseason, which is commendable and managed to get right just once, which is disgraceful.
For the record, Cox has fifteen teams in the postseason and one WS. Whitey Herzog has three postseason teams and one WS. One of those records is acceptable. Care to guess which one?
By Shaun
November 21, 2008 11:05 AM | Link to this
You are again not understanding the runners on base compared to runs batted in. Howard drives in ~ 30 % of runners on, Dunn only ~ 24.5 % of runners on.
BBFan, so you are saying there was only about a 5.5 percent difference in the rate at which they drove runners in? You would think the second-most valuable player in the league would drive in runner on base at a much higher rate than Adam Dunn…unless of course he wasn’t really the second-most valuable player in the league.
By David O'Brien
November 21, 2008 11:08 AM | Link to this
K.D. Banks, I think you make a good point about O’Flaherty. Good pedigree, obviously.
By GeorgetownKid
November 21, 2008 11:14 AM | Link to this
Coach
By your inane logic, I am a more savy investor than Warren Buffett because he has lost more money than me in the stock market. Of course, what your unimpressive mind probably can’t quite grasp, is that Warren Buffett has also MADE a little bit more money than me in the stock market.
Saying that Bobby Cox has the “worst postseason record in MLB history” on the sole basis of the number of his losses is akin to saying that the South won the Civil War, because the North lost more soldiers.
I can try to email you some pictures, or perhaps mail you a popup book if that would help you understand.
By David O'Brien
November 21, 2008 11:18 AM | Link to this
ugacap02: You didn’t really think Flowers had a shot at making the team out of spring training, did you? Dude hasn’t played above A-ball.
Last Braves player I can recall jumping from A-ball to the bigs was Rafael Furcal nearly a decade ago, and that was after he’d batted .322 with a minors-leading 95 stolen bases and 105 runs scored in 1999, and the Braves needed him as a shortstop and leadoff man.
Braves don’t need a catcher, and aren’t going to have Flowers sitting on the bench, catching once a week. He’s a solid catching prospect who needs to keep developing while working with a pitching staff, making more of the kind of strides he made last year.
By TommyP
November 21, 2008 11:22 AM | Link to this
I think so many are so enthralled with the idea of landing an “ace” at all costs that we’re mortgaging too much of the future to get that “ace.”
First off, what is an “ace” to everyone? I think opinions vary on that one.
For many, it’s a guy that is a top-notch pitcher in the league that is able to dominate on any given night.
So how many are out there?
For others, an “ace” might be a good to very good pitcher that is durable and able to give you a chance to win most times. A guy that goes deep into games more often than not.
We’d all love the first definition but it’s more realistic to get the latter.
Look at last year’s playoff teams.
In Boston, would Beckett be the ace? He’s had one great season there out of 3. Or is it now Lester?
In Tampa, is it Kazmir? No way.
What about Anaheim? Lackey perhaps? Not sure he’s the definition of “ace” to everyone or not.
The ChiSox have Buerhle as their option as ace but man when I look at the number of hits allowed, I think he’s more of a #2.
Those are your AL playoff teams from last year. Which team has the bonafide “ace”?
The NL had Hamels, Zambrano or CC, Hamels and Lowe.
I’ll give you Milwaukee had an ace but only after dealing for CC (Sheets is too unreliable in health to be considered an “ace”, in my opinion). They were in the thick of things before CC.
Chicago definitely has one in Zambrano.
Hamels just evolved into Philly’s ace this year but what do they have after him?
Lowe? I’ve never thought of him as an “ace” but he is a solid, reliable starter that you can depend on.
I think it’s essential that you need a deep pitching staff more so than you need an “ace” to make the playoffs.
Dealing so much of your future (especially when it’s players as talented as the ones being mentioned as part of the deal for the Braves) for ONE GUY that comes with added risks is just not the way to build this team.
Is anyone else out there in agreement? Build a solid, deep rotation instead of selling out for a top-heavy rotation but creating additional holes now and in the future?
By Elmer
November 21, 2008 11:25 AM | Link to this
Lew, I hope you are right,but I fear that the GM and Cox will settle for Smoltz, Hampton and a rookie.
By GermanBravesFan
November 21, 2008 11:28 AM | Link to this
DOB: With McCann signed for a few more years, do you think the Braves might consider trading him?
By David O'Brien
November 21, 2008 11:31 AM | Link to this
Bravedawg, at the risk of being condescending, am I to assume that since Adam Dunn and Ryan Howard have the same park-adjusted OPS totals (I’ll trust you that they are the same, as you wrote), that you believe Dunn is very comparable player to Howard?
If so, let’s just say we agree to disagree.
And also, I’d point out that Dunn plays in the most hitter-friendly home ballpark in the majors, even more hitter-friendly than Philly.
Dunn has a .251 career average with 150 home runs and a .540 slugging percentage at home, and a .242 average with 128 homers and a .497 slugging percentage on the road.
Howard has a .278 average with 90 homers and a .601 slugging percentage in home games, and a .280 average with 87 homers and .580 slugging percentage on the road.
Howard has slugged 40 points higher on the road than Dunn has slugged in Cincinnati, and 24 points higher than Dunn has slugged at home since the Reds moved into their new home affectionately known as Great American Small Park.
Dunn has a .556 career slugging percentage in that bandbox. Howard, for what it’s worth, has six homers and a .723 slugging percentage in 14 games (47 at-bats) at Cincy’s current ballpark.
By Steve from OH
November 21, 2008 11:32 AM | Link to this
For the record, Cox has fifteen teams in the postseason and one WS. Whitey Herzog has three postseason teams and one WS. One of those records is acceptable. Care to guess which one?
You seriously think three postseasons out of nine is better than 14 out of 17? Seriously? Cox’s postseason % with the Braves is 82%. Herzog’s, with the Cards, was 33%. Think about that. And Cox is the donkey? Did you ever stop to think that the reason Cox has lost more postseason games than any other manager is because he’s actually been there more than any a vast majority of other managers? Or that he had to face the roided up Yankees teams in ‘96 and ‘99? Or how he got screwed by bad umpiring in ‘97? Or how the ‘91 series was snatched away by Jack Freaking Morris’ flukey game? Come on, man, I don’t know what Cox did to you, if he didn’t sign an autograph for you or whatever, but there really isn’t any reason to hate him as much as you do. You’re just making up crap to support your blatantly wrong theory. And I know if our roles were reversed, you’d say something like “they both won only one WS. Bottom line. End of story,” or whatever, so I’ll say it to you, since you seem to be a very results-based kinda guy. They each won one WS. Cox has been better in the seasons in which he didn’t win a WS. So, logically, Herzog is better, right?
Did you ever stop to think why Herzog’s teams only went to three postseasons during his tenure in St. Louis? Because he put too much emphasis on [pansy]-footing around the bases and not enough on getting on base and slugging.
During the 1982 season, in which the Cards won the WS, they were 1st in the NL in OBP. They were 5th in OPS+. In 1984, they finished 12.5 games back and were tied for seventh (with three other teams) with a .317 OBP. But they sure stole a lot of bases. They were 7th in OPS+, 3% below the league average. In 1985 they won the NL and guess what? They were 1st in OBP and a close second (by 1%) in OPS+. In ‘86, they finished 28.5 games back and were DEAD LAST in OBP. But they lead the league in stolen bases! Herzog is a god! (they were also dead last in OPS+). In 1987, they again won the NL and, amazingly, improbably, they were again 1st in OBP. In ‘88, they finished 25 games back and were, not surprisingly, 7th in OBP and second to last in OPS+. Noticing any trends here? Sure, speed kills, its sure killing me right now. I’m in stitches.
I don’t know if you think you are extra smart by playing monday morning quarterback on all this stuff or what, but man, I don’t think you can be any more wrong about Cox.
By David O'Brien
November 21, 2008 11:34 AM | Link to this
Bravedawg, one other stat: Dunn has a .225 career average and .474 slugging percentage with runners in scoring position, compared to Howard’s .282 average and .582 slugging in those situations.
By Efrim
November 21, 2008 11:35 AM | Link to this
TommyP
Is anyone else out there in agreement? Build a solid, deep rotation instead of selling out for a top-heavy rotation but creating additional holes now and in the future?
I think that is Frank Wren’s goal man. They deal Escobar, Gorkys Hernandez, Charlie Morton and Blaine Boyer for Jake Peavy and they have a heck of a starting staff in 2010:
Peavy, Hudson, Jurrjens, free agent, Hanson
Now there are some questions there. How Hudson comes back from Tommy John? How Hanson does out of the gate? Who is that other free agent starter we pick up?
As far as 2009 goes, even with Peavy, that second starter they pick up would have to be pretty damn good to create an above average pitching staff.
But you understand where Frank Wren is going with this, right?
By David O'Brien
November 21, 2008 11:36 AM | Link to this
GermanBravesFan: I can’t see it, at least not in the forseeable future. McCann’s one of the best young players in baseball, a three-time All-Star and two-time Silver Slugger in his three full seasons in the majors, signed to a club-friendly long-term contract.
Might be the single most unlikely guy they would trade on the current 40-man roster.
All that being said, things can and often do change from one year to the next in baseball. But right now, that’s how I see the McCann situation. Check again this time next year.
By David O'Brien
November 21, 2008 11:39 AM | Link to this
atown, you’re welcome. And I’m with you, regarding the constant Cash jag.
By flange1
November 21, 2008 11:40 AM | Link to this
Morning All,
TommyP might have a point. We fans might be getting too worked up over the “top tier” FA pitchers and might be missing an opportunity to really look into other options that could solve the same problem.
In my mind one of the major keys to what the Braves will do this off season is their stance on Tim Hudson. IF they want him back after 2010, he can and could be the “ace” the team needs for the next few years.
If that is the case, should the Braves consider signing Randy johnson to a 1 year deal to fill the gap until August when Huddy could be back?
Then for a second starter, look for a good young arm like Ian Snell?
Resign Hampton and you have a nice rotation for 2009, you have not overspent in dollars or years for pitchers, and you project a 2010 rotation of Hudson, JJJ, Snell, Hanson and a number 5 guy.
That would give you more money to spend on an outfield bat or and outfield bat and a SS or 2B if one of those guys is traded.
The Braves and the Pirates almost hooked up on Jason Bay, so the Pirates know the Braves farm system and obviously like some of the players.
Thoughts?
By Steve from OH
November 21, 2008 11:41 AM | Link to this
Scoots, sounds like you were the polar opposite of me as a player, lol. I was a leadfooted P/3B. My teammates, on the other hand, could probably have beat most of our county’s track teams in any kind of race, but I liked to think I won more games for us on the hill than they did on the basepaths :)
After all, they could steal second and third, but I (and our leadfooted pitcher) still had to knock ‘em in.
By flange1
November 21, 2008 11:44 AM | Link to this
And to add to my last post, you don’t have to spend all of your money before the season starts. You could hold your dollars and see if anything special comes up in spring training or during the season.
For example (again only example NOT saying this were to happen) the Tigers decide mid year that they will have to slash payroll and look to dump Mags for a prospect. Mainly looking for immediate salary relief. We ship them a prospect and pay his big salary.
By Nate
November 21, 2008 11:50 AM | Link to this
There’s a bit of difference in how you would build your rotation for the long regular season versus the post season.
During the regular season you want a deep rotation. You can’t ignore the back end because those guys are making 40 percent of your starts, and you don’t want to overuse your bullpen.
But in the post season teams only rely on three starting pitchers usually. The #4and #5 guys become irrelevant. Sometime they aren’t even on the post season roster. With the post season in mind it seems stupid to waste money on the back end of the rotation.
Teams approach this dilemma differently, with varying degree of success.
One thing is for sure, and that is the fact that right now the Brave’s rotation in neither deep nor top heavy.
By Bravedawg
November 21, 2008 11:57 AM | Link to this
DOB
Again, as I stated above—I’m not saying that Dunn is as good as Howard. He’s clearly not. He’s just not NEAR as bad as many people assert. Sure, if you just look at batting average and RBIs, they’re not in the same ballpark (sorry for the pun). But it’s not that simple.
By Shaun
November 21, 2008 11:58 AM | Link to this
DOB, clearly Howard has had the better career. In 2008, though, Dunn and Howard weren’t much different.
By Efrim
November 21, 2008 12:00 PM | Link to this
Flange1
The Braves and the Pirates almost hooked up on Jason Bay, so the Pirates know the Braves farm system and obviously like some of the players.
And looking at the current corner OF market, I now know why they went after Bay at the deadline even though they had already traded Mark Teixeira. Bay would of been perfect for this team. If the Braves were offering Lillibridge, Brandon Jones, Jeff Locke and another postional player prospect, I guess I can see why they took the package in that three team deal. Although Brandon Moss and Craig Hansen don’t look too great and Andy Laroche’s major league career hasn’t resembled his minor league stats. The Morris kid looks like he has a good arm though.
By Anders
November 21, 2008 12:03 PM | Link to this
Lew
So many seem to think that the Phillies and Mets are worlds above us in talent level, assured of taking the division before a game has been played and it just isn’t so. The Mets still have numerous holes of their own to fill. Their rotation is not close to being set and their bullpen has sucked out loud for two years. Their 2B situation is still up in the air as well-possibly a couple other positions as well.
You really need to stop comparing the Braves voids to the Mets. They are worlds apart. The Mets are losing Oliver Perez (possibly) from their rotation and he will either be resigned or replaced with value. They’re bringing back Santana, Maine and Pelfrey. Their 5th spot was filled by various guys last year and at worst will be again this year. Pedro was a shell of himself so losing him is insignificant, except for the $’s he allows them to spend on others. The Mets will sign or trade for a stopper and decent starting pitcher -bank on it. They bandaided second base for the whole season last year. They did the same in right and catcher. If it happens again - so what? That was not their problem last year. And yes their bullpen sucked,and they will replace Wagner with one of the top 3 or 4 guys available which should be equal, unless you’re now changing your tune on Wagner who you repeatedly told me sucked?
Yet with all this,the Mets finished well ahead of the Braves for the second straight year . All things equal how can you really think the Braves will close enough ground to be taken as a serious division title contender? If anything they may lose some ground without Tex and Hudson even for half the season. If they replace Hudson with Peavy then you lose Escobar. Same Church different pew.
Sorry Big Fella but your logic is wrong on this one.
By GeorgetownKid
November 21, 2008 12:03 PM | Link to this
Steve
I think Coach intentionally posts outlandishly stupid things just to entice people to respond to him.
Either that, or he is a complete moron.
By gogobraves
November 21, 2008 12:04 PM | Link to this
no because if they dont have a power hitting outfielder by midseason they would not be in the playoff race and why trade for an expensive outfielder who is 35 years old when you are already out of it. i like the idea of getting a young pitcher like snell or my favorite would be somehow pull of a trade for phil hughes and i would still get the peavy deal done. 2010 roAtation of peavy hudson jj hanson hughes would be awesome.
By Efrim
November 21, 2008 12:10 PM | Link to this
gogobraves
How do you expect to get Hughes from the Yankees?
By DAP
November 21, 2008 12:13 PM | Link to this
not that the small park in cincy wouldnt help dunn’s slug%, but ive never seen him barely hit one out there. no stats to back it up, but when he hits it out, its seems like it would be out no matter where he was.
howard has many that barely go out that ive seen. of course, they are oppo field so he still has superhuman power.
By Lew
November 21, 2008 12:13 PM | Link to this
Flange-Thanks for talking reason, Dude. That’s what I’ve been trying to tell the Denizens-It might not be the top tier guys we see on the horizon. Last year I would seriously doubt that Jurrjens was on anyone’s radar (except the Braves’ front office) and look how that went. I’m certain that there’s other similar deals out there to be had.
Elmer-If that’s what you truly believe, despite Wren’s constant reassurances to the contrary that they are not even factoring Smoltz, Glavine or Hampton into their plans, then I doubt there’s anything I or any other sane blogger can say to convince you otherwise. You’re wrong, but you’ll never believe it until it’s a fait accomplis.
Also, with Wren’s comments on Yunel being our shortstop and saying our infield is set, I’m finding it hard to believe Yunel was even part of the Peavy deal, or will be supposing it even gets done. It also makes me think that maybe the KJ for Ludwick deal was in the minds of the Cards, only.
By Shaun
November 21, 2008 12:17 PM | Link to this
Sure, if you just look at batting average and RBIs, they’re not in the same ballpark (sorry for the pun). But it’s not that simple.
Amen, Bravedawg. But you’ll have a hard time convincing some on here that it’s not that simple.
By DAP
November 21, 2008 12:17 PM | Link to this
I think Coach intentionally posts outlandishly stupid things just to entice people to respond to him.
Either that, or he is a complete moron.
i wouldnt say those two are mutually exclusive.
guys, i wanted to ask ya’ll what you think…if the braves were going to sign either abreu or ibanez, which one would you prefer? first based just on thier ability, dont make money an object, then if your opinion would change based on contract tell that to.
im just curious to see what you guys think. maybe you too, DOB, if you have time?
By Lew
November 21, 2008 12:18 PM | Link to this
Anders-Quit being a pompous @$$ Dude. No one compared anything or anyone to your beloved Non-Achievers. All I said (damn, I wish you actually read what was posted) was that the Phillies and Mets both had holes to fill as well, and that it was foolish to hand them a Division Title (something the Mets have a noticable lack of in case you didn’t notice) before the lineups are even set, much less a game has been played.
Also Dude, maybe you could point out where I was in error regarding the Mets’ or Phillies’ needs. Did I perhaps miss something else they might have need of?
By Efrim
November 21, 2008 12:21 PM | Link to this
Lew
Also, with Wren’s comments on Yunel being our shortstop and saying our infield is set, I’m finding it hard to believe Yunel was even part of the Peavy deal, or will be supposing it even gets done. It also makes me think that maybe the KJ for Ludwick deal was in the minds of the Cards, only.
I guess you might be right, but like 18 different reports of Yunel being involved came out when the Peavy to the Braves talk was on. I think Frank Wren said that Yunel is our SS because the Peavy talks are over with. Or at least they are right now. My guess is if they start up again, Yunel will be back on the table. And if he isn’t, than Kelly Johnson will be……..and if he isn’t, well, then we are probably looking at a large prospect package of guys not named Hanson or Heyward(which I am totally against doing, and I am pretty sure the Braves are too).
By Lew
November 21, 2008 12:23 PM | Link to this
Anders-One more thing Oh Misinformed One-maybe the Mets WILL sign a closer and fill the two rotational holes. However, I haven’t seen them pull off any deals yet. Have you? I’m thrilled you have three rotation spots filled. One apparently is certain, but wasn’t Maine hurt and ineffective at the end of the season? Also-Pelfrey has had ONE moderately successful ML season. I would imagine that to anyone but you or a Mets’ fan that he’s still a question mark. As for filling in the fifth spot-that worked, didn’t it? It worked helping you tank yet again, but not much else. Talk to me when your holes have been filled. Until then, the Mets are every bit as much a work in progress as the Braves are.
By Anders
November 21, 2008 12:26 PM | Link to this
Efrim
How do you expect to get Hughes from the Yankees?
How about that package the Braves are offering for Peavy with one more good prospect to the Yankees for Hughes, Cano and Cabrera?
I haven’t vetted it but something along those lines. The Braves move KJ to short (thought I read on here that’s his natural position) put Cano at second (as good or better than Escobar offensively today) and use Cabrera as a stop gap in CF.
Wallah! Of course you are now committing to pitching staff that is at least a couple of years away from being MLB tested and this fly’s in the face of keeping Chipper around, which is why I said trade him….. anyway, just spitballing here on get away day.
By Efrim
November 21, 2008 12:26 PM | Link to this
DAP
Abreu if we aren’t talking money.
By BravesFanInRockies
November 21, 2008 12:32 PM | Link to this
JimD,
Nice smackdown of Coach. He’s come around a little on the value of OBP but he’s still an unrepentant speed freak. And I don’t mean that in a good way.
By flange1
November 21, 2008 12:34 PM | Link to this
Lew,
On Yunel, my perspective is that FW said the infield is set is basically his way of not saying anything at all. I think Yunel was the centerpiece to the Peavy deal and that since that deal is now “dead”, Yunel is the guy.
It would not benefit the Braves to say KJ and Yunel are on the block, or at least that is not the Braves way of doing things.
Anders,
You, as usual, failed to read Lew’s post. All he said was the Mets and Phillies have holes too so don’t give the division away.
Didn’t see anything in his post that compared the Braves holes to the Mets holes..
By Efrim
November 21, 2008 12:35 PM | Link to this
Anders
Haha, I’m all cool with trading for Robinson. I like Hughes a lot, but again, I’m pretty sure the Yankees aren’t trading him. Kelly Johnson at SS? No thanks. Average defensive second baseman don’t make average defensive shortstops.
By Anders
November 21, 2008 12:39 PM | Link to this
Lew
Why so angry? Here’s what you wrote:
So many seem to think that the Phillies and Mets are worlds above us in talent level, assured of taking the division before a game has been played and it just isn’t so.
Are you not saying that others are wrong to think the Mets and Phillies are worlds above the Braves ( I assume that’s who you meant by us)? I would take that as a comparison by you. That’s what I responded to. That’s all.
Maybe you should take a minute to read what you write?
BTW- What would you call a team that finishes 17 games behind the “non-achievers”?
By nolie
November 21, 2008 12:43 PM | Link to this
I know your real name, but I always thought Scoots was just a play on your name/National origin.Lew
Ok, so now I’m picturing a guy with a Scottish accent running to the bathroom- but at least he has a kilt on, which makes it a bit easier when in a big hurry. . Ok. I better quit before I get conked by a caber or cleft by a claymore. ;-)
By A FAN
November 21, 2008 12:44 PM | Link to this
well we might get a steal outta hampton. his agent said this
ESPN’s Jerry Crasnick spoke to Mike Hampton’s agent Mark Rodgers, who said, “We’re looking for a straight one-year deal - no option, no nothing.” Hampton obviously just wants to re-establish himself as a healthy, useful starting pitcher after so many lost seasons. It’s unclear whether Rodgers’ statement means Hampton will avoid incentive-based offers.
soo even if he is terrible we only would deal with it for only a year!!!
By DAP
November 21, 2008 12:44 PM | Link to this
efrim i thinik id agree with you if we werent talking money. the only thing is that abreu is a butcher in the outfield. hes even worse than ibanez. i just read a baseball think factory article that had abreu as the worst outfielder in the AL. yikes.
plus, (ill talk about money now) abreu will probably get paid more, maybe alot more, and will want a longer contract.
i think we could get ibanez for 2 years $16mil, maybe with an option for a third year. that way, we have a nice bridge to heyward or whoever is coming down the pike.
abreu and ibanez are actually pretty similar players, so considering everything, id go for the one who will require the shorter, cheaper contract.
By Lew
November 21, 2008 12:46 PM | Link to this
Anders-Wallah? Dude, that’s Voila. Do you know ANYTHING? Doubtful if you think Kelly Johnson will be moved to shortstop. You might check his fielding stats at that position in the minors-like the 20 something errors at Myrtle Beach or the 45 errors at Macon. You might then realize that there was a reason he was moved from his “natural position”.
Efrim-Sorry Dude, but Wren has never confirmed any of the players proposed in the Peavy deal. I refuse to accept others’ rumors as proof-even Buster Olney, who lives down the street from me in Vermont and whose opinion I respect. Maybe Yunel WAS offered and maybe not. We won’t know for sure until a deal is done-IF it is.
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
November 21, 2008 12:48 PM | Link to this
Steve, you sir, are a God Damned fool. And I’m talking complete freaking IDIOT. Don’t ever talk to me again. Just go F** yourself , OK ? Thank you.
By DAP
November 21, 2008 12:51 PM | Link to this
So many seem to think that the Phillies and Mets are worlds above us in talent level, assured of taking the division before a game has been played and it just isn’t so.
anders disagrees with this…so you think the division should be handed to one of these teams without playing the games? thats what i get out of it.
What would you call a team that finishes 17 games behind the “non-achievers”?
if you are refeering to the braves, they finsihed about where they should have based on thier season. weather or not you “achieve” is based on expectations.
By TennesseePaul
November 21, 2008 12:51 PM | Link to this
I had to look…
Dunn OPS+: 130
Ryan OPS+: 143
That isn’t the same. Howard is still much better than Dunn.
By Efrim
November 21, 2008 12:53 PM | Link to this
DAP
I think if the Braves want right handed power, or a hitter able of hitting for power against left handed pitching, than neither guy is one that we should covet. Ibanez career SLG vs. lefties is .411. Abreu has a career .404 SLG vs. lefties.
By Anders
November 21, 2008 12:53 PM | Link to this
flange 1
So many seem to think that the Phillies and Mets are worlds above us in talent level, assured of taking the division before a game has been played and it just isn’t so.
Read the line above. Now you tell me how that doesn’t read as a comparison of talent on the Mets and Phillies to the Braves. If Lew had written ” Just because the Mets and Phillies have talent worlds above us etc. etc. that would be different.
Stop the nonsense of saying I don’t know what I’m reading. If that’s not what he meant and wrote it wrong - fine. He should admit it and we’d move on. But let’s not put this on my supposed incorrect interpretation of the written word.
Lew If Wren could have Maine and/or Pelfrey tonight he’d take them in a heartbeat so cut the crap. If he had both he’d call off the Peavy watch too and spend the money on one of their other needs.
Until then, the Mets are every bit as much a work in progress as the Braves are.
That’s a foolish line that no serious Braves fan on here would agree too. You’re showing your homerism again.
By TommyP (Coach will be missed)
November 21, 2008 12:55 PM | Link to this
And with that, Coach, you should be gone from the blog.
No need for that kind of ridiculous language.
By Lew
November 21, 2008 12:57 PM | Link to this
Anders-Not angry, just tired of your constant barrage of bovine excrement (BS since you are seemingly And Idiot). Until the rosters for all teams are finalized, an occurrence somewhere down the road from now, then there is no comparing anything or anyone. Two days ago, the Phillies were thinking Utley would be in the opening day lineup. How did that go? Think it might make a difference to their performance?
Dude, you’re the one constantly comparing the Mets to the Braves. You’re the one telling us how far ahead of us the Mets have placed the last three years, despite the fact that the Mets, with possibly the majors’ best team in 06, tanked to the Cards, the worst playoff team in either league. Then you squandered your huge division leads two consecutive seasons. I guess, in the long run, all you have is a pitiful comparison to the Braves’ finish to make the Mets look good. Honestly, had not someone made the comment saying how much better the Phillies and Mets were than the Braves, I never would have brought them up.
Besides, had you actually read the posts in recent weeks (I’m assuming you CAN read, though I’m doubtful of your comprehensive abilities in that regard), you’d have seen that I’m not considering the Braves will win the Divsion this year, but will contend in 2010 when we get Hudson back and some of our kids are a year closer and more experienced.
By Efrim
November 21, 2008 12:57 PM | Link to this
Lew
I refuse to accept others’ rumors as proof
Well, if that is the case, than there is no point to talk about any of this stuff. Rarely, if ever, do you see any GM’s actually admit a player is involved until it actually happens.
By Fred
November 21, 2008 12:58 PM | Link to this
Anders, That hypothetical Braves/Yankees trade wouldn’t work for several reasons. First, the braves have 3 young guys (Anderson, Blanco, Schafer) to compete for the CF job. One of those 3 should be relatively successful next year. Plus, Cabrera was so bad this year they sent him to the minors. Second, we already have 2 second basemen capable of starting (Prado and KJ) and it would make no sense to trade for Cano, who had an off year. Third, the braves are in the market for 2 established major league starting pitchers. Hughes has potential but hasn’t realized it yet in the majors. We already have a couple of guys in that category (i. e. Morton, Reyes), although Hughes is considered a better prospect than those 2 pitchers. We also have Tommy Hanson close to major league ready.
By Anders
November 21, 2008 12:59 PM | Link to this
Lew
Anders-Wallah? Dude, that’s Voila.
Got me there. You were right, I was wrong. See how easy that is? Give it a shot sometime.
As for KJ to short. As I said, hadn’t vetted any of it and was spit balling. Hey maybe the Yanks would take KJ in place of Escobar? You’d have to up the prospects though.
Think about it Escobar and Cano up the middle. Hmmmm. Now you might be getting somewhere.
By Lew
November 21, 2008 1:00 PM | Link to this
Coach-You’re talking complete Freaking Idiot? We know, you do it constantly.
By DAP
November 21, 2008 1:01 PM | Link to this
hampton’s agent: “We’re looking for a straight one-year deal - no option, no nothing.”
i wonderif this means he WONT do an option year, or if he isnt expecting it. if this is true, the braves need to bring him back. as much as we need pitching, getting hampton would be a good move. id give him one year, $6mil, and a $10mil 2nd year option with like a $2mil buyout. that would garuntee him $8mil this season, and possibly $16mil over two years. seems reasonable, but who knows what kind of 1 year offers hes getting.
By BravesFanInRockies
November 21, 2008 1:02 PM | Link to this
And Coach raises the level of discourse on the blog.
Nice to have a civilized conversation …
By PopeVanIII
November 21, 2008 1:04 PM | Link to this
DOB @ 11:31,
First of all, no, Dunn and Howard do not have the same park-adjusted career OPS. (It’s referred to as OPS+, by those who know what they’re talking about, FWIW.) Howard’s obviously better, but it’s closer than you think.
Yesterday, you cited batting average (stupid, limited stat) and RBIs (stupid, team-dependent stat) as reasons for Howard’s superiority…and those are weak reasons.
Anyway, back to the 11:31 post—do you even know what park-adjusted means? You reference that and then cite…the fact that they play in different home parks. That’s the whole point of OPS+! It neutralizes stadiums and provides a metric to assert the relative values of different guys’ offensive production.
By TennesseePaul
November 21, 2008 1:04 PM | Link to this
Also, with Wren’s comments on Yunel being our shortstop and saying our infield is set, I’m finding it hard to believe Yunel was even part of the Peavy deal, or will be supposing it even gets done. It also makes me think that maybe the KJ for Ludwick deal was in the minds of the Cards, only
Team policy. Yunel is our short stop is merely a statement of fact and does not exclude the possibility that he might be part of a trade. As you can see in the rest of the chat with Frank he didn’t specify any trade peices or proposals.
Yunel may or may not have been part of the trade for Peavy, but I don’t think one can make any conclusions on the matter from that one statement.
After reading through all of the Padres notes and conversations it would appear that the hang up was in an attempt to acquire Hanson, or at least some other top five prospect, all of whom appear to be off limits.
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
November 21, 2008 1:07 PM | Link to this
The sheer level of stupidity and ignorance in this blog is clearly reflective of the lack of real baseball knowledge.
Some of you guys are a bunch of frauds. No nothing yoyo’s who excel at nothing except for your feeble attempts at reason. Get a life. I’m right and I know I’m right. It takes integrity to agree and zero brains to join the herd mentality.
O’Brien, if you would set some parameters and rules of civility this crap wouldn’t devolve into grade school insults. Instead, it is allowed. And you, David O’Brien have failed in your responsibility at keeping people in line. I am out of here. You will not be hearing from me for quit some time.
By GermanBravesFan
November 21, 2008 1:09 PM | Link to this
DOB: oooops… I had to leave earlier and didn’t see that I wasn’t clear in my post. I meant whether the Braves would consider trading Flowers. My bad! Of course McCann won’t go anywhere!!
So, do you think the Braves might consider trading Flowers?
By Shaun
November 21, 2008 1:09 PM | Link to this
TennesseePaul, can’t speak for Bravedawg but every one of my posts on the subject clearly say Dunn and Howard were very similar in 2008, but that Howard has been better in his career.
But 143 and 130 is probably closer than some would expect.
By DAP
November 21, 2008 1:11 PM | Link to this
coach shame on you for your 12:48pm post. that was uncalled for.
By Anders
November 21, 2008 1:12 PM | Link to this
Dap
anders disagrees with this…so you think the division should be handed to one of these teams without playing the games? thats what i get out of it.
Based on the teams as they stand right now as that’s all we have I don’t think the Braves have a shot in H… of beating out the Mets or Phillies. Now, based on what is being talked about in the offseason by all three I don’t see how the Braves can come close to closing a 17 to 20 game gap in one year. That’s what I meant.
The fact that they are even considering trading Escobar tells me how desperate things are for them. Hudson going down for the year absolutely crippled the Braves for 2009. Think of how different things would be if he was sitting on top of that rotation right now?
Last year’s Braves had Smoltz, Glavine, Hudson,Kotsay and Tex in their plans. They’re all gone and most without equitable replacements. How could you expect more from next years team at this juncture?
Come on guys - be logical here.
By nolie
November 21, 2008 1:13 PM | Link to this
Posnanski on Batting Average, Home Runs, RBI
If you are about my age+, then you grew up as a baseball fan with three statistics and only three statistics. There was batting average. There were home runs runs. And there were RBIs. That was it.
+You might also groan when you get out of a chair and get just a little bit too excited when you come across some nostalgic thing you had forgotten all about like Lite Brite or the Dean Martin Celebrity Roast or Wacky Packies. And right about now you are humming the Superfriends Theme.
It would be difficult to overstate how deeply those three statistics were burned into our baseball fan psyche. Every single time we would watch a game on television, we would see those three same stats, always the same three stats, listed below the batter, usually in large blocky letters so that it looked like so:
Graig Nettles
.267 avg. 21 home runs 91 RBI
Often, they would put the numbers across the screen, horizontally — but no matter the design, it was still the same three numbers. But it wasn’t just on television. The newspapers would only list those numbers. And every time you would hear a game on the radio, the announcer in (I suspect) every single town would give the players name followed by the those three numbers: “That will bring up Sixto Lezcano, Sixto’s hitting .273 on the year, 21 homers, 49 runs batted in.”
Same numbers in the same order every time.
Baseball cards would have a couple more numbers on the back, but not many more. In the early-to-mid 1970s when I started collecting cards, the only numbers they had on the back other than the core three: at-bats, hits, doubles and triples. It wasn’t until 1977 1976* that Topps even put RUNS on the back on cards. In 1978, they added games. In 1981, around that time when the Donruss and Fleer cards started to offer some competition, Topps added stolen bases, slugging percentage (what was this slugging voodoo?) walks and strikeouts. And that’s how it stayed until my Cleveland Indians card collection runs out in 1987.
*More on this in a new baseball card post.
My point is we were INUNDATED with batting average, homers and RBIs. We were INOCULATED with batting average, homers and RBIs. We were BRAINWASHED with batting average, homers and RBIs — those are, for kids of my generation, like the queen of diamonds in “The Manchurian Candidate.” If someone called me up right now and said, “Why don’t you pass the time by playing a little solitaire,” and I looked at my baseball cards, and came across batting average, homers and RBIs, yeah, I’d probably be programmed to kill.
I think it’s good, every so often, to consider how deeply batting average, homers and RBIs are cut into our baseball DNA. Those were more or less the only numbers we were even ALLOWED to consider. Why do you think Bill James was such a seminal figure — it’s because he so clearly and concisely and hilariously was able to slap our faces and show us that, yeah, there was more out there, a bigger world. He was like the baseball version of Morpheus for us. Red pill or blue pill. Blue pill you can stick with your core statistics and believe that Steve Garvey had a good season in 1984 and Andre Dawson deserved his ‘87 MVP. Red pill and you can see beyond: .279, 14, 74.
The funny part is that even after you appreciate that there is a bigger baseball world, it’s very hard to completely break away from what you grew up with. Sure, I KNOW that on-base percentage is a more compelling statistic than batting average, and yet I find myself looking at batting average first. I KNOW that home runs, while significant, do not give as complete a picture of a batter’s power as slugging percentage does … but I am built to look at the home run number and make judgments. I KNOW that RBIs give an utterly incomplete picture of a baseball player’s hitting talent, but I cannot help but feel a bit of admiration when I see that someone knocked in 97 ribbies.*
*That would be Jose Guillen. I KNOW that Jose Guillen was one of the worst everyday players in the American League last year. I know this. He’s an awful fielder. He can’t and often doesn’t run. He had a .300 on-base percentage, which is abominable (third-worst among corner outfielders). He had a .438 slugging percentage which is barely one step above abominable for a guy who was signed for $12 million per so he could hit with power. He was a total pain in the Hillman. And while he had a smoking hot 44-game stretch in the middle of the year (.380/.391/.659 with 10 home runs … and, yeah, two walks), the other 109 games he was, no exaggeration, the worst player in baseball. He hit .215/.263/.344 as a lousy fielding corner outfielder with an attitude … you simply can’t pay enough for that kind of dreadfulness.
BUT … I can’t help it. I see those 97 RBIs and, against my will, I find myself reverting to childhood and involuntarily thinking, “Hey, that’s a lot of ribbies.” A person my age cannot help this, it’s impulse and reflex . It’s like if you go up to anybody my age, anyone, and start that Muppet Show song — you know “Me-nah-me-nah” — they will, without wanting to, respond with “Doo-doooo-doo-do-do.” It’s in our genes.
So what’s wrong with a baseball world filled only with batting average, homers and RBIs? OK, well, I think everyone here can appreciate why on-base percentage is so much more telling than batting average. I’ve written at length on this, like everyone else has, but to put it simply: Batting average — for reasons that go back more than 100 years — does not incorporate walks. On-base percentage DOES incorporate walks. There’s your difference. Walks are very good things for a hitter. Very good things. Important things. Significant things. Very significant things.
In my view, walks, even now, even after Moneyball, are wildly underrated. One of the many cool things Bill James has shown — and others have shown it in different ways as well — is that if a player could walk EVERY AT BAT, he would be the most productive player in baseball history. And that would be true no matter HOW brutal the players around him might be. Someone who walked every time — and I remember reading a kids book about the possibility, “The Boy Who Always Walked” or something — would be more productive than Barry Bonds or Babe Ruth or Ted Williams in their greatest seasons. Bill and others proved this in really cool and dramatic ways — I believe Bill even set up some computer simulation to prove the point. I don’t know how to to do computer simulations, but I should be able to give demonstrate this in a few short sentences:
OK, so, the all-time record for total bases in a season is Babe Ruth with 457 in 1921. That’s a massive season. If you tack on his 145 walks and the four times he was hit by a pitch (Four hit-by-pitch? That’s all? Hey does someone want to move the Babe off the plate or something?), you get 606 grand total bases, which is the most in baseball history.
If they had walked the Babe every single time, he would have had 693 grand total bases, which would be, you know, more.
Barry Bonds in 2004 — the year he had that sick .609 on-base percentage — had 303 total bases along with 232 walks (amazing) and 9 hit-by pitch. That’s a grand total of 544 total bases.
If they had walked Bonds every single time that season — and Lord knows they tried — he would have had 617 grand total-bases.
Ted Williams in 1941 hit .406 with 37 homers, 147 walks, a .735 slugging percentage. His grand total bases — total bases plus walks plus hit-by pitch — was 485.
If they had walked the Splinter every time, he would have had 606 grand total bases.
So it’s pretty simple. Walks are a critical part of the game. The best on-base guys reach base about 270-300 times per season and more than a third of those are on walks. Batting average does not consider walks. So there you go: It’s pretty clear to see that batting average is a very flawed statistic — it’s a bit like calculating a quarterback passer rating for every pass he makes EXCEPT when he throws to the running backs or the tight end.*
*Well, you know how much I love creating new statistics … what about “Grand Total Bases?” That would be total bases plus walks plus hit-by-pitch:
2008 leaders in GTB
And in 2007:
And over the last 25 years: 1. Barry Bonds, 2001, 597 2. Mark McGwire, 1998, 551 3. Sammy Sosa, 2001, 547 4. Barry Bonds, 2004, 544 5. Luis Gonzalez, 2001, 533 6. Carlos Delgado, 2000, 516 7. Todd Helton, 2000, 512 8. Todd Helton, 2001, 505 9. Larry Walker, 1997, 501 10. Ryan Howard, 2006, 500
Anyway, I think it’s interesting.
OK, the second part of the equation — home runs are obviously very important. But I think that our obsession with counting home runs has probably skewed our view of the good power hitter. Tony Muser and others have made the semi-comical, semi-interesting assertion that doubles are sometimes better than home runs because they keep rallies going and keep the pressure on pitchers, and while I I would not go there I would say that doubles are another underrated part of baseball.
Ryan Howard hit 48 homers last year, which led the league, and so you would think he was the most powerful hitter around. But he only hit 26 doubles and his .543 slugging percentage placed him SEVENTH in the National League. so he was, in fact, NOT the most powerful hitter. He was the best home run hitter. But that’s not the same thing.
Then there are RBIs. Whew. RBIs. It is interesting to me that, for about as long as baseball has been played, people have viewed RBIs as more important than runs scored. It really seems to me it should be at tie, or, if anything, it should be the other way around. After all, to SCORE a run you have to:
There are no other ways to score a run. You have to do those three things. Of course there are cheap and easy ways to get on base (by error, fielder’s choice, catcher’s interference, etc.). There are cheap and easy ways to get around the bases (wild pitch, balk, error, etc.) and there are cheap and easy ways to score runs (trotting around on someone else’s home run, scoring on passed ball, etc.). But you still have to accomplish those three feats, and the likelihood of scoring a run without doing something good is pretty low. More often than not it takes multiple skills to score a run.
Meanwhile, knocking in a run requires only one act: Hitting a baseball in such a way that a runner scores. That’s all. Sometimes this means driving yourself in by hitting a home run. Sometimes this means getting a huge clutch hit with runners in scoring position and two outs. Often enough, it means hitting a fly ball with a runner on third base — the only time a fly ball is worth anything. Often enough it means hitting a routine ground ball with the infield back — the only time a routine ground ball is worth anything. Often enough it means getting a hit against a mop-up pitcher with the game out of reach.
The point is — what takes more overall skill? I think you could argue pretty persuasively that — and we’re talking generally here — scoring the run takes more skill. And yet the RBI has been the statistic of choice for a long time. The RBI, obviously, has a better press agent.
There are so many problems with judging a player by RBIs. Do you know who the best, the absolute best, RBI man in baseball was last year — assuming that by “RBI man” we are talking about the player who most efficiently drove in runners on base? I suppose many of you do know because the blog is based in Kansas City, but for the rest of you it will probably come as a bit of a shock: The answer is David DeJesus. Last season, DeJesus drove in 21.5% of the runners that were on base when he came to the plate. That was a better percentage than Josh Hamilton, better percentage than Ryan Howard, better than Kevin Youkilis, better than anyone.
Of course, you will point out, that DeJesus only had 73 RBIs, less than half of Ryan Howard’s total. Where are all those extra RBIs coming from? They are easy to locate:
– Ryan Howard hit 48 home runs to DeJesus’ 12. So that’s 36 more RBIs right off the top.
– DeJesus was usually the leadoff hitter for a Royals team that mostly had Tony Pena, Joey Gathright, John Buck, Ross Gload hitting in front of him. The Royals bottom three in the order hit:
7th: .245/.288/.364 8th: .252/.310/.357 9th: .233/.281/.285
So who in the heck did DeJesus have to drive in? Nobody, that’s the answer. David DeJesus only had 284 runners on base when he came to the plate. Ryan Howard had 199 more baserunners — 483.
That’s a huge difference. Put it this way: If David DeJesus has performed exactly the way he did only with Ryan Howard’s men-on-base, he would have had 114 RBIs last year. And that’s assuming he still only hit 12 home runs. If you want to be kind and give him another eight home runs — not unreasonably considering he would have gotten out of cavernous Kauffman Stadium — then he might have had 125 RBIs or 130 RBIs. And suddenly, people would be saying David DeJesus — doing not much more than he did this year — was the league MVP.
RBIs are just so much about circumstance. I’ll give you another great Ryan Howard statistic — and I don’t mean to keep picking on Howard, but he’s just in the middle of all this because he led the league in homers and RBIs.
So, we know Ryan Howard drove in 146 RBIs. Do you know what Howard hit in those situations called late and close — that would be seventh inning or later with the score close (tied, within one run, tying run on base, at plate or on deck)? Now, remember, this is the guy who LED THE LEAGUE in RBIs. So you could take away from that that he must have hit well in the clutch, he must have knocked in runs when the team needed them, he must have performed at his best when the game was on the line.
Ryan Howard came up late-and-close 124 times. He hit … .158 in those situations. He on-based .306. He slugged .337.
That is not Tony Pena. But it’s the nicer house in his neighborhood.*
*Or to put it in Monopoly terms — it’s like a hotel on Baltic.
Does this mean Ryan Howard cannot hit in the clutch? Absolutely not. In 2006, when Howard had a massive year, he hit .290/.436/.613 in late and close. No, it just means that those RBI totals, while they are nice to look at, don’t tell you very much.
By BravesFanInRockies
November 21, 2008 1:18 PM | Link to this
Coach,
You’re not the Source of All Knowledge. People disagree. Intelligent ones and dumb ones, too. Deal with it, or get lost.
By Lew
November 21, 2008 1:20 PM | Link to this
Anders-I realize it’s way too much to expect you to quit being a complete and utter @$$, but one can always hope.
No one seriously has suggested a Yankees deal at all. As for the Mets being worlds above the Braves in talent-just how do you figure that?
First of all, we have quite possibly the best catcher in the NL-y’all don’t. At first, Kotchman has potential, but is DelGado the 07 or the 08 version? If the former, then we have the edge. If not, then we will just have to see if Kotchman lives up to his potential. At second, I’d take KJ over Castillo any day of the week. At short, y’all have an edge, but not as much of one as you think you do. At third, the only edge you have is Wright’s playing time (and those NY writers who think he’s so great and keep giving him awards). In the outfield, both of us have questions at two positions. Beltran is better than our options-no argument there, but let’s see how we do this winter with the other two outfield spots.
In the rotation, you have three certainties. We have one and maybe two or three, but have potential coming from the minors in Hanson, Medlin and Marek-y’all don’t. As to the other spots-we’re looking, just like the Mets are
As for the bullpen-Braves, hands down.
Dude, I fail to see that the Mets are set in their lineup at all any more than the Braves are. I also fail to see the Worlds Above us in talent that you seem to see. Y’all have three positions that edge us out and not much more, with only one of those positions (center) and ONE starter being more than an edge. Let’s just hold off on comparing rotations until we both actually have one.
Like I said-where’s this huge differential you are talking about?
By Efrim
November 21, 2008 1:21 PM | Link to this
Where did Steve from OH say something that was out of line? Where did anyone say something that was out of line? Except for that 12:48PM post of course….
By Steve from OH
November 21, 2008 1:21 PM | Link to this
G-TownKid, if he was baiting me, it sure as heck worked. That post was a bit too snarky for my own tastes, but I do hate it when people talk down Bobby Cox like that. At the very least, the dude deserves a lot of respect for his track record, I think.
Anyhoo, I think I one-year deal for Hampton is a fine idea, even if his peripherals weren’t as good as we’d like. I think he’s more likely to be on the over side of his projections, anyway. As long as we’re not paying too much, its a low-risk, high-reward play.
By Roman Gal
November 21, 2008 1:21 PM | Link to this
McRomanGirl Fann
Shucks…I’m not sure if I’m supposed to be flattered that I have a fan or not. FYI, I’m not even old enough to run for senate or rent a car yet.
Efrim I just wish more people would write what they think about Hanson’s ceiling after seeing him this year rather than just how well he’s performed in the AFL. It does say something about how good the Braves think he’s going to be since they apparently refuse to trade him.
By DAP
November 21, 2008 1:21 PM | Link to this
coach Some of you guys are a bunch of frauds.
what? who here, other than you, claims to be anything other than an avid baseball fan blogging? ive never seen anyone talk about thier expertise except you! how can we be fruadulent bloggers? thats dumb, coach. really stupid.
O’Brien, if you would set some parameters and rules of civility this crap wouldn’t devolve into grade school insults. Instead, it is allowed. And you, David O’Brien have failed in your responsibility at keeping people in line.
….i dont know what to say. i cant believe you of all people would say something like this. you are one of the main bloggers guilty of uncivility.
I am out of here. You will not be hearing from me for quit some time.
good! i hope its a very very very long time! (like forever)
By TennesseePaul
November 21, 2008 1:23 PM | Link to this
Payne: When looking at OPS+ and people suggesting it was close, I would have thought 5 points or so, not 13.
But, while looking at these guys I was struck by how close they are… Dunn was born on November 9th, 1979. Howard on Novemeber 19th, 1979. One in Houston. The other in Saint Louis. One is 6-4, 230. The other is 6-6, 240. And they both enjoy long walks on the beach.
Insane!
But back to the OPS+… oh let’s see here… 2008 was similar: Dunn 129, Howard 124. (There’s the five points). But these guys are clean up hitters. And I’d split this hair on batting average for a clean up hitter. I know you like the OBP, but if the guy is there to knock in runs, I want him knocking. And that is what Howard does. That’s what the OBP does. This is why Howard has a higher success rate of knocking in runs than Dunn.
At any rate, the 2008 debate could boil down to sample size in which case you are back to a career analysis and Howard wins out. Easily.
By Roll the Hole
November 21, 2008 1:24 PM | Link to this
Steve, you sir, are a God Damned fool. And I’m talking complete freaking IDIOT. Don’t ever talk to me again. Just go F** yourself , OK ? Thank you.Coochie poo
BAD BOY ! BAD ! ! BAD ! BAD !. Just thinking of you as a coach, which I’m afraid would place you in close contact with youngsters, is frightening & disgusting. FIE!
By i cant take it anymore
November 21, 2008 1:26 PM | Link to this
COACH, where are you going?
By Shaun
November 21, 2008 1:29 PM | Link to this
PopeVanIII, you’ve done it! You brought up the term ‘park-adjusted.’ Now you’ll be made fun of even though the folks making fun of you will never even think of trying to understand what park-adjusted means.
By Lew
November 21, 2008 1:30 PM | Link to this
TenPaul and Efrim-Just my opinion-just as uninformed as your’s or anyone else’s until we see a done deal (Anders-that’s what Fait accomplis means). Wren did mention when he called off the Peavy deal that not all players prevalently mentioned were actual inclusions. Any speculation as to which players they were is just that-speculation.
Efrim-you’re right-all of this speculation is totally meaningless, which is why you’ll rarely see me predicting potential deals. Until they make me the GM (which ain’t gonna happen, IMO), I’ll just wait until I see DOB’s confirmation of the done deal.
By DAP
November 21, 2008 1:30 PM | Link to this
anders itll be hard to make up 17 games, youre right. i think its more possible if the mets and or phillies take steps back as well as the braves improving. honestly, all it would take would be santana or hamels to go down.
its possible, thats all im saying. i think that improving the rotation will improve the braves more than just the games they would win, because i think it will help the bullpen win more games as well. the braves offense is modest but its still actually pretty good.
remember detroit? all it takes is for things not to go to plan, (like it didnt for the braves in 2008) if things go better than planned (2007 rockies?), which also happens, good, unexpected things can happen.
By Nocturnal Owl (Coach will NOTbe missed)
November 21, 2008 1:32 PM | Link to this
Coach go get some sleep……
By Anders
November 21, 2008 1:34 PM | Link to this
Lew
I believe if you knew my actual credentials and level of responsibility it would stagger you. At least based on what you write regarding my mental capacity and all. I don’t post that for my benefit, but to answer your unwarranted slurs. If it makes you feel superior to insist that I’m a moron and can’t keep up with your supposed supreme intellect, well then so be it.
I take heart in the fact that those who read these posts will see them for what they are. I’m quite comfortable with that.
As for comparing the Mets to the Braves, again, I was responding to your post doing just that. Why is this so hard to see?
By Eware
November 21, 2008 1:36 PM | Link to this
Coach has a potty mouth.
By Nocturnal Owl (Coach n Lou will NOT be missed)
November 21, 2008 1:39 PM | Link to this
Well no additions to our beloved team
But we did lose Coach and Lou Valez!
Thats a successful 24hours to me!!!
By TommyP
November 21, 2008 1:40 PM | Link to this
Nolie: That was far too long…but fun to read. :)
I think Coach declared his absence before getting banned (as he should be).
How much will Oliver Perez cost? He’s young so he could be your 2nd SP acquired.
The first would be either Lowe or Pettitte. (not sure if Pettitte would come here, though)
Lowe, Jurrjens, Perez, Hanson, Campillo.
Next year Lowe, Hudson, Jurrjens, Perez, Hanson.
I’m assuming about $15 mil/year for Lowe and about $12 mil/year for Perez????? Still have money for that LF (Ibanez?). And probably still some more for that deadline deal.
And you keep all of your talented prospects to develop and start plugging into the lineup/rotation.
By DAP
November 21, 2008 1:40 PM | Link to this
bravesfaninrockies Deal with it, or get lost.
at this point, i wouldnt give coach that option.
By Lew
November 21, 2008 1:40 PM | Link to this
Shaun-I think more people here are aware of Park Adjusted and all of it’s ramifications (actually one of the New Math stats I totally agree with) than you seem to think. It’s a concept that predates the stats by quite a few decades-even with we Statistical Fossils.
EG-We have always wondered what Willie May’s power stats might have been had he played his entire career at the Polo Grounds with it’s ridiculously short right and left field lines. Of course, it DID have a 500 foot center field, but if you were a pull hitter…….Still, had The Say Hey Kid played there a couple more years, Hank may not have been the one to break the Babe’s record.
By jj
November 21, 2008 1:42 PM | Link to this
*Coach *that was not cool.Every body has bad days but that was a little to far. I know you better than that.Thats not the Coach who blogs that I respect.
Everyone should stop calling others names, there’s no reason for it. God Bless the USA.
By gogobraves
November 21, 2008 1:43 PM | Link to this
Efrim
i do not believe they would be able to trade for him.. just saying that it would be nice - but you never know maybe tyler flowers and a good pitching prospect might interest them?
By kdbanks
November 21, 2008 1:46 PM | Link to this
Coach is angry. I think I remember him from my Little League days when I couldn’t get a hit to save my life. Dad is that you?
By Fred
November 21, 2008 1:47 PM | Link to this
Coach, Your 12:48 PM comment is 100% a reflection of the type of person you are, no one else. I work at an alternative school with behavior disorder kids and they react the same way when disagreeing with someone. There is absolutely no place for that type of language and verbal assault on this blog.
By nolie
November 21, 2008 1:48 PM | Link to this
Anybody who has participated in the frequent debates on different stats(Steve,Shaun,N8 etc) should really read the Posnanski article that I posted above. Some great entertaining thoughts about what we think amd why.
By Shaun
November 21, 2008 1:50 PM | Link to this
TennesseePaul, I’m simply saying a lot of people would probably be surprised by 13 points.
I would argue that a cleanup hitter’s (or any hitter’s) job isn’t just to knock in runs or score runs. It’s to create runs. And I would argue that Howard didn’t do as good a job as many other MVP candidates in creating runs because he costs his team outs at a higher rate than many others.
I think people confuse RBI with creating runs. But creating runs is more than just RBI. Creating runs involves getting on base, not making outs and gaining bases.
By Steve from OH
November 21, 2008 1:51 PM | Link to this
nolie, excellent article. I should really read Posnanski’s blog more frequently than I do.
By Shaun
November 21, 2008 1:53 PM | Link to this
Lew, right. Not sure what you mean by “New Math.” Branch Rickey and Allen Roth were really the grandfathers of the “sabermetric” front office.
By Lew
November 21, 2008 1:53 PM | Link to this
Anders-Yeah right-let’s get into an IQ P!$$!ng contest. Dude, if you’re as intelligent as you’d like us to believe, actually posting something intelligent upon occasion would go a long way towards convincing us-certainly moreso than telling us how staggered we’d be in your true intellectual presence-would we be required to bow to it?
As for needing you to feel superior-well, you’d be staggered just how little anyone even thinks about you when you’re not here pontificating horse manure. Believe me-your name doesn’t even come up. Nor do the Mets.
Imagine-a New York Mets fan, one of the most arrogant and obnoxious of all creations complaining about us not being nice. Pots, kettles and whatnot.
As for making up 17 games-maybe having actual healthy pitchers for an entire year, not having to pitch three rookies in our starting rotation and having a full bullpen for a whole season might make more of a difference than you seem to think. I seem to remember that before we lost Hudson and traded Teixeira with two months left in them season, we were right in the thick of it all until the All Star break-DESPITE losing Smoltz, Glavine, Soriano and Moylan and not having our closer Gonzalez or Mike Hampton for the first half of the year.
By Fred
November 21, 2008 1:54 PM | Link to this
Anders, Regarding your 1:34 PM post, maybe you need to consider why other bloggers have developed that perception of you.
By Thrillhouse44
November 21, 2008 1:55 PM | Link to this
I don’t post that for my benefit, but to answer your unwarranted slurs. Anders
Unwarranted slurs? How is Lew stating the needs of the Mets an unwarranted slur? You may not be a moron, but you’re definitely confused.
By JimD
November 21, 2008 1:58 PM | Link to this
Apparently Coach doesn’t like it when we take his own precious stats and use them against him. Oh well.
By Lew
November 21, 2008 2:04 PM | Link to this
Shaun-Just a convenient term-don’t read anything into it.
Park adjusted really does mean something significant to my way of thinking-especially when attempting to compare players of different eras. When I was a kid, there were stadiums like Connie Mack in Philly, with 447 foot center field walls. Or Forbes Field in Pittsburgh, with an incredibly long left field line-certainly a big difference from venues of today such as Citizens Bank Ball park in Philly or Minute Maid in Houston.
By TennesseePaul
November 21, 2008 2:05 PM | Link to this
I would argue that a cleanup hitter’s (or any hitter’s) job isn’t just to knock in runs or score runs. It’s to create runs. And I would argue that Howard didn’t do as good a job as many other MVP candidates in creating runs because he costs his team outs at a higher rate than many others
Ah, well if you would argue a point about an MVP vote, then you have moved on to a totally different topic. I was discussing Dunn vs. Howard. When ever you would like to get back to that topic let me know.
But as to the purpose of a clean up hitter, I would agree that the goal of all hitters in the line up should be to create runs. But, the ideal gas law is just that, ideal.
I’d lean more on the third hitter in the line up to create runs, more than the fourth hitter. I’d love it if both could work just as efficiently, but I know that is near impossible. And hence, I’d rather have Howard in the fourth spot over Dunn.
By ncscoots
November 21, 2008 2:07 PM | Link to this
Now you’ll be made fun of even though the folks making fun of you will never even think of trying to understand what park-adjusted means.
Lighten up, bro. Some of us used “park-adjusted” in a humorous vein because, well, it just lends itself to such a use. Don’t take it personally, LOL. It’s not a condemnation of you as a human being or anything.
Well, at least, not for me. :-)
By Shaun
November 21, 2008 2:08 PM | Link to this
Steve from OH, good blog post. Here is the link:
http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/11/20/batting-average-home-runs-rbis/
Here are a few highlights:
David DeJesus only had 284 runners on base when he came to the plate. Ryan Howard had 199 more baserunners — 483.
That’s a huge difference. Put it this way: If David DeJesus has performed exactly the way he did only with Ryan Howard’s men-on-base, he would have had 114 RBIs last year. And that’s assuming he still only hit 12 home runs. If you want to be kind and give him another eight home runs — not unreasonably considering he would have gotten out of cavernous Kauffman Stadium — then he might have had 125 RBIs or 130 RBIs. And suddenly, people would be saying David DeJesus — doing not much more than he did this year — was the league MVP.
RBIs are just so much about circumstance. I’ll give you another great Ryan Howard statistic — and I don’t mean to keep picking on Howard, but he’s just in the middle of all this because he led the league in homers and RBIs.
So, we know Ryan Howard drove in 146 RBIs. Do you know what Howard hit in those situations called late and close — that would be seventh inning or later with the score close (tied, within one run, tying run on base, at plate or on deck)? Now, remember, this is the guy who LED THE LEAGUE in RBIs. So you could take away from that that he must have hit well in the clutch, he must have knocked in runs when the team needed them, he must have performed at his best when the game was on the line.
Ryan Howard came up late-and-close 124 times. He hit … .158 in those situations. He on-based .306. He slugged .337.
It shouldn’t be controversial that judging a player by AVG-HR-RBI is absolutely ridiculous. But it still is in many quarters.
By DAP
November 21, 2008 2:09 PM | Link to this
unwarranted slur
in anders’ defense, a mets fan is a terrible thing to call someone.
By Lew
November 21, 2008 2:13 PM | Link to this
Shaun-I think you might actually be staggered (maybe more than we would be staggered by Anders’ alleged intelligence) at what I think of most of the Sabermetric way of viewing baseball. I place a bit more credence in some of the stats than you might think. I just don’t feel the need to view everything at it’s sub-atomic level to appreciate or to understand the game. And I DO delight in arguing with you-strictly for the sake of arguing.
By Lew
November 21, 2008 2:16 PM | Link to this
Thrillhouse-I’m working on your Wurlitzer-may take some time though-just found out another retinal procedure is in my future in the next couple of weeks. Yet another in the continuing series, it would appear. No big deal, but it may put me a bit behind.
By Efrim
November 21, 2008 2:16 PM | Link to this
Roman Gal
I just wish more people would write what they think about Hanson’s ceiling after seeing him this year rather than just how well he’s performed in the AFL. It does say something about how good the Braves think he’s going to be since they apparently refuse to trade him.
Yea, it’s possible that they haven’t seen him since then and they just want to be able to form an opinion for themselves. Who knows? I think enough people will find out about him soon enough.
By Roach
November 21, 2008 2:19 PM | Link to this
Guys this is a blog. And what is the one thing that 99% of people are in here for because we LOVE the BRAVES!!! and what to see them to the best they can. Thats why we blog about it and discuss every single possibility because we want the BEST out of our TEAM.
By Caleb
November 21, 2008 2:20 PM | Link to this
DOB, even though you’ve apparently “failed in your responsibility at keeping people in line” here on the blog, maybe you could hold all of our hands as we walk through life to make sure we behave. Thanks.
By Lew
November 21, 2008 2:22 PM | Link to this
Well Denizens-It’s been fun, as usual, but it’s time to draw a few lines and listen to the new Buck Cherry CD Black Butterfly. NO one will ever claim this is good fare for young minds-they DO deserve their Parental Discretion advisory-but the boys DO know how to rock to extremes. For those into the harder edge of rock and roll, this is a good one. They do kick butt.
By Shaun
November 21, 2008 2:27 PM | Link to this
TennesseePaul, I agree. I’d rather have Howard than Dunn (in any spot in the order). But in 2008 it is close, I’d venture to say a lot closer than some realize.
By Marty
November 21, 2008 2:29 PM | Link to this
Yay, Coach is gone! Thanks, Steve!
By ncscoots
November 21, 2008 2:39 PM | Link to this
It shouldn’t be controversial that judging a player by AVG-HR-RBI is absolutely ridiculous. But it still is in many quarters.
Yes, too bad that concept was not the point of Posnanski’s blurb. He was pointing out that the nature of the three stats is ingrained in many of us, whether we praise or ridicule any others. Pulling out that particular “highlight” from the entire article might be considered a wee bit self-serving.
As for me, the three stats may not give me a complete picture of the player (nor would I claim that they do), but they do provide a frame of reference that is quickly and easily comparative. Because I have a lot of years and players worth of experience using those stats to do just that.
And, regardless of the values in other, perhaps more meaningful metrics, a .250 hitter is still a .250 hitter. And in no universe should that be considered “good”.
By Thrillhouse44
November 21, 2008 2:46 PM | Link to this
Lew, take your time on the Wurlitzer. I’m anxious for it, but these are busy times. Ones meant to enjoy with those you care about. And your top priority should be taking care of yourself and eyes. Priority #2, putting trolls like Anders in their place. Take care of yourself and keep rocking.
By cincybrave
November 21, 2008 2:48 PM | Link to this
As someone who grew up in Cincinnati, and spent a lot of time watching Dunn, here is the best comparison I can come up with that ALL Braves fans can understand: Dunn is as polarizing as AJ was in 2007. Those that are fans of Dunn’s point to the Home run, OPS, RBI, walks and runs. Those that hate him point to his average, strike outs, RISP, and defense. You either love him or hate him. And while I love him as a player, and think he would fit in great in the laid back clubhouse of the Braves, I think it would be a terrible mistake for the Braves to pay $12 million per year, or more, for his services. And if you think he will take less than that, for less than 5 years, you are very mistaken. Someone will pay that for the excitement that his bat will provide.
By Nate
November 21, 2008 2:50 PM | Link to this
Why is it that so many people on this blog except Schafer to step in and be the rookie of the year next year? Wren said yesterday he excepts Schafer to start in AAA. Granted, I’ve never seen Schafer play, but nothing from stats in the minors really screams that this kid is ready for Atlanta. He’s never played above double A, and he got suspended for juicing.
Besides a lot of hype and publicity, what is it about him that has so many of you believing that he step into the CF job in Atlanta next year and hit .280 with 20 HR’s. Am I missing something?
By ugacpa02
November 21, 2008 2:55 PM | Link to this
DOB asked earlier if I really think Flowers will be in Atlanta this year. No I don’t. However, isn’t he looking to skip a level in the minor leagues due to a very successful fall?
I’m interested if now that the AAA team is in the Atlanta area in a nice park and needing to build a fanbase, will we see more top prospects spending time there? It’s seemed to me in the past that our best prospects spent more time in the lower levels and sometimes skipped AAA altogether. Will we be considering Heyward/Freeman/Flowers/Hernandez for AAA this year or will they be taken slowly through AA or even just high A?
Also, when did this “high” A level come about? Seems we should just go ahead and send the best to AA after a year in single A.
By Lee in S GA
November 21, 2008 3:00 PM | Link to this
ncscoots - good 2:39 post.
I would dare say the average fan looks at it that way also and you are correct. Those 3 stats still give me a good enough picture to decide if I want the player on my team or not.
By BravesFanInRockies
November 21, 2008 3:11 PM | Link to this
Lew,
Stay warm and recover quickly. We’ve not had any measurable snow in Denver yet, but it’s on the way. El Nino may be back, and the last time that happened, we had two feet of snow in late December that didn’t fully melt until April. Yikes.
By Shaun
November 21, 2008 3:12 PM | Link to this
ncscoots, Posnanski writes “There are so many problems with judging a player by RBIs.”
No matter what the point of the article, it’s clear what Posnanski was trying to convey: That judging hitters by AVG, HR and RBI is a matter of tradition and is absolutely not the best way to judge a hitter.
By Shaun
November 21, 2008 3:15 PM | Link to this
Lee in S GA, It’s not a matter of those three stats giving you a “good enough” picture. It’s a matter of that there are stats that give you a much better picture. And, in fact, those three stats can be deceiving.
Look at the example of David Dejesus versus Ryan Howard. As Posanski points out, if Dejesus had hit with as many runners as Howard and did everything else exactly the same, he’d have easily driven in well over 100 runs.
By BA
November 21, 2008 3:16 PM | Link to this
Lew said that based on Wren’s comments that “I’m finding it hard to believe Escobar was even part of the Peavy deal”
So if he was, and the deal fell through, do you think Wren would say something like “we’re not happy with our shortstop, and the infield is anything but decided”?!
So if Wren says nice things publicly about his players, that means he isn’t willing to deal them? That’s just dumb.
One of the dumber things I’ve ever seen posted from someone who revels daily in telling countless others how dumb their opinions are.
By Shaun
November 21, 2008 3:22 PM | Link to this
Yes, too bad that concept was not the point of Posnanski’s blurb. He was pointing out that the nature of the three stats is ingrained in many of us, whether we praise or ridicule any others. Pulling out that particular “highlight” from the entire article might be considered a wee bit self-serving.
Maybe you didn’t read the entire piece. It’s clear that Posnanski meant that even though those three stats are ingrained in us (even those who realize they aren’t the best way to judge hitters), there are drastic problems with judging hitters on the basis of those stats.
He brings up how batting average doesn’t take into account walks. He brings up that RBI are highly dependent on other players in the lineup and that often times it takes much less skill to drive in a run than it does to score a run.
By Bobby's Cox
November 21, 2008 3:24 PM | Link to this
Flustered Fan
Yesterday you asked the all important question we’ve all been wondering, who plays short if Escobar is traded for Peavy?
This is from the Yahoo! Sports Braves team report, dated Nov. 21 (today):
INF Martin Prado stood to gain a starting position had the Braves traded SS Yunel Escobar to the Padres for RHP Jake Peavy. Now that the trade seems to have fallen through, manager Bobby Cox will have to find another spot for him. Prado outperformed all expectations when he had to be the emergency first baseman at the end of the 2008 season.
This is news to me, as it is for all of us. As high as I am on Prado, as most of you know, I’m not sure he’d be a good replacement for short.
Not sure why Yahoo’s take differs from the take on the blog, but I’m more inclined to believe what DOB said, that the Braves probably wouldn’t have Prado play short. His best chances of playing still lie in Johnson getting traded.
By Elmer
November 21, 2008 3:32 PM | Link to this
In truth,the Braves don’t have the deep pockets to compete for a “Big Dog” with the Yanks or Cubs. And a trade will give away a talented regular like Escabar!
By Wayne
November 21, 2008 3:35 PM | Link to this
Bobby’s Cox You are dead on about Prado. Good hand, limited range and arm. Will the bat stay at 2008’s level? Time will tell. I hope so, but I am not confident.
I also think a guy like Lillibridge will eventually be a better player to have on our team.
Hey FW, we need a Peavy announcement!
By David O'Brien
November 21, 2008 3:37 PM | Link to this
Bobby’s Cox, I would ask where do you think Yahoo gets its info, since they don’t have a person covering the Braves? I can assure you, Prado hasn’t been mentioned as a possible SS replacement by people I’ve asked.
By Dixie Dawg
November 21, 2008 3:38 PM | Link to this
I’ll probably get reemed out for saying this, but what the Padres are wanting for Peavy is just way too much. Sure, he’s a good pitcher and all, but it sure is going to deplete a lot of our young talent just for a guy whose heart really isn’t into coming here anyways. IMO, I think that dealing away Escobar could come back to haunt us. I don’t think that we should be so obsessed with coming back in 09 with a vengence. I think we should develop the players we have and not put so much stock in one guy (Peavy).
By David O'Brien
November 21, 2008 3:39 PM | Link to this
ugacpa: You asked if Flowers is in line to skip a level. When I asked about a week ago, I was told Flowers right now is most likely to start out catching at Double-A.
By AZBravoFan
November 21, 2008 3:41 PM | Link to this
Before anyone gets excited about Oliver Perez, how about taking a look a his numbers when he’s not pitching against the Braves. If I recall he shut them down nearly every time and was pretty mediocre against everyone else.
By Dixie Dawg
November 21, 2008 3:44 PM | Link to this
Wren said that Johnson is a natural shortstop in the chat yesterday. There’s a viable option with Prado playing 2nd. I know some people frown on that but, to me, it would make the most sense. But, it will still suck to have to cough up Escobar. He has a lot of promise. I love his arm.
By ncscoots
November 21, 2008 3:45 PM | Link to this
Shaun, of course I read the entire Posnanski blurb. What you see as the point of the article is colored by your position as purveyor of all that is sabermetric. I see it as a guy saying that he can’t stop himself from thinking in three-stat terms, even when he knows better than to do so.
If it had been just another redundant treatise on the value of metrics other than AVG-HR-RBI, I probably WOULDN’T have read it all. I already have that information. Posnanki, instead, wrote an entertaining and insightful piece. Not always a given with him.
By Nate
November 21, 2008 3:45 PM | Link to this
We need a left field announcement.
By Lee in S GA
November 21, 2008 3:45 PM | Link to this
Shaun
I will say since coming on this blog for around 1 1/2 years now, I have broaden my philosophy on this outlook of hr’s, rbi’s and avg. determining the complete package so-to-say of a player. That’s mainly because of reading into posts like yours and other certain bloggers that support statistical evidence to back this up. In other words, I do feel a little more educated about an overall player’s performance and contributions to a team.
By David O'Brien
November 21, 2008 3:49 PM | Link to this
I believe if you knew my actual credentials and level of responsibility it would stagger you. Anders
Sixteen words. Sixteen words that will live in infamy. Absolutely priceless. Spectacular.
Actually, this would be a great, albeit unwieldy, title for either a blog or an indie film.
By David O'Brien
November 21, 2008 3:55 PM | Link to this
A FAN: Regarding your 12:44 p.m. post about Hampton’s agent, Mark Rodgers. We wrote that here two weeks ago during the GM meetings, when I talked to Mark about Mike’s situation. Just wants a straight one-year deal, no incentives, no option year, and he’d like to sign with a team closer to Arizona (reg season and/or spring-training home there) because he’s going through a divorce that will be finalized in January, and his kids will be in Arizona. He’d like to be able to see them more frequently, by being a shorter flight away during the season and being close during spring training
By David O'Brien
November 21, 2008 3:57 PM | Link to this
Bubdylan, just saw your 11:19 a.m. post and laughed my butt off.
By Dixie Dawg
November 21, 2008 3:59 PM | Link to this
DOB I admire you for the walking encyclopedia of baseball knowledge that you are. No, that’s not sarcasm. You do a damn good job.
By Dixie Dawg
November 21, 2008 4:00 PM | Link to this
bout time for a fresh blog, ain’t it?
By steve (balt)
November 21, 2008 4:05 PM | Link to this
Just a few thoughts:
Towers is waiting to see if Sabathia signs with the Yanks. What if Lowe and Burnett sign with Boston and Toronto and CC spurns the Yankees?
Who is left? I think even if CC signs with the Yanks and Lowe and Burnett go elsewhere the Yanks want two pitchers. Mussina is now gone and I suspect the Yankees became very disappointed with Andy Pettitte.
Seems to me the Braves are trying to trade Yunel Escobar re of what deal he is in. Did he wear out his welcome? There are plenty of options in the market place.
I would love to see Khalil Greene out of Petco. Yet my O’s wouldnt trade Garrett Olsen for him (which I agree with since we need starters so bad). I suspect a patient sort will get Greene for almost nothing.
By geauxbraves2000
November 21, 2008 4:07 PM | Link to this
The RBI, obviously, has a better press agent Nolie
That’s because the RBI is represented by Scott Boras. :)
Geaux Braves!!
By Dixie Dawg
November 21, 2008 4:08 PM | Link to this
DOB we have a little in common when it comes to McMurtry. You like James’ music, I like his dad Larry’s novels.
By David O'Brien
November 21, 2008 4:09 PM | Link to this
Everyone should keep in mind that Dec. 1 is the last day for teams to offer arbitration to their free agents. So teams interested in a certain free agent won’t sign him before then if there’s any question whatsoever about whether the free agent’s current team (his 2008 team) is going to offer arbitration.
Take Renteria, for instance. It’d doubtful the Tigers would offer him arbitration, since they declined his option for 2009. But if a team signed Renteria before Dec. 1, they’d have to give up a draft pick since Edgar is a Type A free agent. The Tigers would get a draft pick and a supplemental pick if he’s signed before Dec. 1.
But not if he’s signed after Dec. 1 and they don’t offer him arbitration.
By David O'Brien
November 21, 2008 4:11 PM | Link to this
Among relevant free-agent pitchers who are Type-A class guys: Sheets, Penny, Wolf, O. Perez, Randy Johnson….
No reason for teams to sign them before Dec. 1, and plenty of reason not to sign them before then.
By GermanBravesFan
November 21, 2008 4:11 PM | Link to this
“Sixteen words. Sixteen words that will live in infamy. Absolutely priceless. Spectacular.”
One word: PRICELESS!!!
By Joe M.
November 21, 2008 4:14 PM | Link to this
CBSSports:
“The Padres’ talks with Atlanta, the one approved team that showed the most interest in a deal, broke off last week after San Diego pulled back from a deal the Braves thought was almost done. Braves officials were said to be angered by the pullback, enough so that they would much prefer to fill their pitching needs elsewhere, if possible.”
By john
November 21, 2008 4:15 PM | Link to this
hey DOB…. If Tyler Flowers is so great, what are the Braves going to do with him when he comes to the majors? I mean they aren’t going to sit McCann…..
By David O'Brien
November 21, 2008 4:16 PM | Link to this
ugacpa: Yes, you will definitely see more of the Braves’ top prospects in Triple-A now that the team’s going to be in Gwinnett, instead of in Richmond.
Braves want the ones who could be ready to help the big club to be there at Gwinnett, especially pitchers, since they could literally get them to Turner Field in an hour if there’s an injury on game day in batting practice or something, or if someone gets hurt in a Braves game one night, they won’t have to scramble to get them from Richmond to Atlanta, if the Triple-A and major league teams are at both at home. Plus, if Braves are on the road, there are many, many more direct flights out of Atlanta that a Gwinnett player can catch to get wherever the Braves are playing, rather than taking connecting flights from Richmond through wherever.
It’s going to be a very convenient thing, and an advantage for the Braves on the field, having a Triple-A team so close.
By Dixie Dawg
November 21, 2008 4:19 PM | Link to this
Man, I was just reading back over the last few hours of blogs. It can get down-right violent in here! It’s just an opinion forum, why do some people get so sensitive? Aren’t we in here to learn and share our knowlege? No One person should be bullied or cursed at. That’s just showing immaturity and low-classness. Now, back to Braves talk.
By David O'Brien
November 21, 2008 4:27 PM | Link to this
Anyone see Teixeira on the sidelines at the Georgia Tech game last night? He was with Red Sox free-agent catcher Jason Varitek, another former Tech player.
So who do you think is more likely to be with Boston in 2009, Tech’s Tex or Tek? I think it’s where Tex will end up.
By chuckw/deadjournalist
November 21, 2008 4:27 PM | Link to this
everyone around here is as antsy for braves transactions as a day-old watermelon after a picnic over a fire-ant bed …
By rammerjammer
November 21, 2008 4:27 PM | Link to this
Joe M., thanks for that nugget from CBS. Taken together with Frank’s Q and A yesterday, perhaps it is our train that has left San Diego’s station.
By Luther
November 21, 2008 4:28 PM | Link to this
Just wondering if anyone else had checked out the G N’R album streaming free on myspace? I listened to it straight through and really liked it. I will qualify that with the fact that they were my favorite band as a kid and there is no way I am looking at it objectively. That said, there are surely some songs where Axel shows he has a really great voice for rock n roll. Stinson on the bass throughout for all Replacements fans.
I think Ander’s quote should be the long talked abou blog t-shirt.
By David O'Brien
November 21, 2008 4:32 PM | Link to this
John, these situations arise all the time with major league clubs, one talented youngster seemingly blocked at the major league level by an accomplished player.
And you know what? They are good problems to have. But Tyler hasn’t played above A-ball yet, other than Fall League, which you could certainly argue is playing six or so weeks above A-ball level.
By the time he’s ready for the majors, the Braves will either A. trade him to fill another need, B. move him to another position, or C. trade or move McCann to another position.
It’s far too early to know what they’ll do. Simply impossible to know, and pointless to speculate since the situations often resolve themselves when a player doesn’t develop as planned, or someone gets hurt, or a too-good-to-turn-down trade comes along, etc.
But If forced to speculate, I’d say that C. is less likely that A. or B.
By Joe M. (Just say no to Oliver Perez)
November 21, 2008 4:40 PM | Link to this
Let it be known that the “Joe M.” posting about Escobar’s “spunk” at November 20, 2008 3:47 PM was not me. Posers.
Bubdylan, just saw your 11:19 a.m. post and laughed my butt off.
What 11:19 AM post on this blog?
By Lew
November 21, 2008 4:44 PM | Link to this
BA-Go VORP yourself, you Park Adjusted WHIP. If you don’t understand the point I was making, then it’s not me that’s dumb. Don’t recall you posting much that was all that insightful, either.
By Dixie Dawg
November 21, 2008 4:49 PM | Link to this
whew! such hostilities…
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 21, 2008 4:53 PM | Link to this
DOB But If forced to speculate, I’d say that C. is less likely that A. or B.
A lot less likely…
By TennesseePaul
November 21, 2008 4:56 PM | Link to this
13 million dollars. Forever in the studio. And what do we get? Some weird amalgam of Britney Spears, Marilyn Manson and G’N’R.
Still though, I appreciate the guitar work on the solos.
By Dixie Dawg
November 21, 2008 4:57 PM | Link to this
By TennesseePaul
November 21, 2008 5:02 PM | Link to this
But track 3 sounds almost identical to the vampire musical Jason Segel put on in Forgetting Sarah Marshall
By richbrave
November 21, 2008 5:04 PM | Link to this
BA:
Are you being naughty again.? Sir LEW seems upset at your take. Guess I’m crazy for saying the BRAVES should go after BURNETT hard, YANKEES be damned, and pay the going rate, whatever it is. Still say a signing would put BRAVES in the drivers seat to get PEAVY. Call me crazy, everyone else did - except one.
By Joe M. (Just say no to Oliver Perez)
November 21, 2008 5:04 PM | Link to this
Let it be known that Oliver Perez is the only player the Braves could sign that would drive me away from the team.
As painfully unexciting, injury-prone, mediocre and/or old as Randy Wolf, Randy Johnson, Ben Sheets and some other free agents from the crop the Braves will be picking through after inevitably failing to sign Burnett or Lowe, at least they’re not Oliver Perez; perhaps the only person, including Juan Rivera, whom the Braves could sign and make me want to pay attention to them less in 2009.
I truly pity the team that gets suckered by Boras into giving sucky Perez a multi-year contract with an annual eight-figure salary.
By Nate
November 21, 2008 5:07 PM | Link to this
Since the Braves weren’t able to land Peavy, or make any other “quick strike,” is it safe to say there probably won’t be any real movement now until after Dec. 1?
By Wayne
November 21, 2008 5:09 PM | Link to this
Towers is on XM right now.
By Wayne
November 21, 2008 5:10 PM | Link to this
I really think Towers is full of it…
By Efrim
November 21, 2008 5:11 PM | Link to this
Joe M.
I truly pity the team that gets suckered by Boras into giving sucky Perez a multi-year contract with an annual eight-figure salary.
The team that signs Jon Garland to a long term deal worth 10 million dollars annually should be the team you should feel sorry for. Garland has given up an average of 234 hits a year the last three years. At least Perez misses bats.
By Billy
November 21, 2008 5:13 PM | Link to this
I believe if you knew my actual credentials and level of responsibility it would stagger you. Anders
Anders, don’t let having the keys to the high school go to your head. I always wondered how you guys keep the hallway floors so shiny?
By Lew
November 21, 2008 5:18 PM | Link to this
richbrave-I’m not upset. I just like telling people to go VORP themselves. It brings me untold joy and makes me feel intellectually superior, can’t you tell?
He thinks I’m dumb (apparently on a continual basis) because I had the temerity to doubt that Yunel was a part of a proposed Peavy player package (don’t you just love the alliteration?). Of course, unless Frank Wren walked up to him and told him in confidence (which had it happened, then he broke the confidence) that Yunel was indeed included, then he knows nothing more than I do and whatever opinion he has is based on rumor and supposition.
Now maybe Yunel was or maybe he wasn’t included in the proposed deal. However, until and unless the trade takes place and Yunel becomes a Padre (and maybe not even then), then I guess we’ll never know for sure, cause the principles aren’t talking and anyone who is doesn’t know anything for certain.
Been hearing for a couple years now that we’re getting Coco Crisp. How has that rumor worked out?
By Bay Area Steve
November 21, 2008 5:19 PM | Link to this
Joe M,
it was 11:19 last night.
And it was hilarious.
Even my lazy, drunken behind had to say so last night, in between comparing scoots to Willy Tavarez.
By Wayne
November 21, 2008 5:20 PM | Link to this
Come on Billy, don’t go dissin our buddy Anders, cause its hard working the drive thru at the Burger Queen!
By JasonInFL
November 21, 2008 5:21 PM | Link to this
Wayne, how Towers mentioned the Braves?
By Joe M. (Just say no to Oliver Perez)
November 21, 2008 5:23 PM | Link to this
The team that signs Jon Garland to a long term deal worth 10 million dollars annually…
But see, that is not going to happen. Even in this market for pitching.
Some dumba** team IS going to give Oliver frickin’ Perez a multi-year, 10+ (likely 12+) million-per-year deal.
By Moby Grape
November 21, 2008 5:30 PM | Link to this
But see, that is not going to happen. Even in this market for pitching.Joe M
I’d be almost willing to bet that it does happen.
By used cars
November 21, 2008 5:37 PM | Link to this
Dave, Are there any rumblings of other pitchers that could be had. Not stolen, but that were available for fair market. Would we be better served to try to pick up a young, inexpensive stud (I sound like Demi Moore don’t I) and then a less espensive guy to fill like Kyle Lohse and then take on a bigger salary at short and leftfield….I would rather see Escobar and one prospect go for someone like Liriano, Cain or Verlander..than ship 4 or 5 guys for Peavy and ink a high dollar shortstop
By used cars
November 21, 2008 5:42 PM | Link to this
Also, Dave as fellow Jayhawk basketball fan, I thought you would get a kick out of this. ESPN replayed the championship game on Classic the other night, fairly late for 8-7 parents of 2. But I faithfully stayed up to make sure it ended the same way (after losing to Syracuse on similar circumstances, I think you know why). The game gets toward the end, and i stay up so I can see the inbounds steal and 3 that got the game close in the last 2 minutes, because I somehow missed that moment (addicted channel surfer) in April. You guessed, somehow I was flipping around the channels and go back to the game to see that it’s coming out of a timeout after that play. Just like in April, they never replayed those precious seconds where the game turned, so I missed it again. What’s the most important moment that you guys have missed because of channel surfing?
By TennesseePaul
November 21, 2008 5:48 PM | Link to this
Been hearing for a couple years now that we’re getting Coco Crisp. How has that rumor worked out?
Exactly as I had hoped!
RICHBRAVE: I get what you are attempting to say in the Burnett thing, but I think that would only work if one were to believe the presuppositions of Kevin Towers. That is to say, that Peavy would veto a trade to the Braves due to lack of competitiveness. I don’t think he would. He may perfer some other team over the Braves, but that doesn’t necessarily mean he’d perfer playing for the sure-to-lose-bad Padres over his childhood favorite Braves, who might actually have a chance to have a winning season, if not a ticket to the post season.
Aside from that, some of the dollar figures you tossed out there exceed even what CC is rumored to be offered. So then, why offer AJ more than CC? Why not just take those gobs of money and throw them at CC?
None of it will happen though. If the Braves aren’t willing to pay $23 million annually for CC, they certainly aren’t going to be willing to pay $25 million for the lesser AJ Burnett. And rightly so.
By David O'Brien
November 21, 2008 5:51 PM | Link to this
Now maybe Yunel was or maybe he wasn’t included in the proposed deal. However, until and unless the trade takes place and Yunel becomes a Padre (and maybe not even then), then I guess we’ll never know for sure, cause the principles aren’t talking and anyone who is doesn’t know anything for certain.Lew
No, but if Escobar wasn’t involved in the discussions, don’t you think a Braves official might tell someone in the media, on or off the record, that he was not? Especially given how Yunel responded to even being mentioned as a possible tradable guy by Bowman late in the season (Yunel wasn’t happy, got stressed out about it, asked “why me?” etc.)
I mean, they’ve made it known that Hanson isn’t going to be traded, so why wouldn’t they say Escobar wasn’t involved in the talks, or at least that it was highly unlikely he’d be traded, or something?
And why would Frank even acknowledge in that chat yesterday that Furcal might be considered (or however he answered), when he made the comment about putting the cart before the horse?
By David O'Brien
November 21, 2008 5:53 PM | Link to this
Luther, I agree: that quote is the absolute perfect slogan for the would-be T-shirt.
By nolie
November 21, 2008 5:54 PM | Link to this
JAYSON STARK
*Want a nominee for the most hotly pursued free agent under the radar? How about Raul Ibanez? He’ll turn 37 in June, but we’ve counted at least a dozen teams that have expressed some degree of interest in him. That group:
Mets, Phillies, Cubs, Cardinals, Nationals, Braves, Royals, Rays, Blue Jays, Rangers (if they can’t re-sign Milton Bradley), Angels (if Teixeira, Juan Rivera and Garret Anderson all go elsewhere) and Ibanez’s old team, the Mariners.
The Mets, Cubs, Cardinals, Braves and Mariners have him at the top of their position-player shopping lists. He won’t be looking for any eight-year deals. And when we asked an official of one team what makes Ibanez so attractive, he gushed: “Character. Proven run producer. In better shape than a lot of 25-year-olds. And he’ll play hard every day, every game, every second he has the uniform on.”*
By CameronC.
November 21, 2008 5:54 PM | Link to this
I just got Sirius Radio[with the best of XM] if anyone else has it, does any of the channels have anything to do with baseball? because i cant find any/
By An Odds Game
November 21, 2008 6:07 PM | Link to this
DOB
RE: Prado.
My point exactly. Where Yahoo & other sources get their sources is a great question. I know you get a lot of info straight from players, the braves front office, or Wren himself.
That’s why most of my attention is here. The info is more accurate.
Thanks for all that you do.
By Bay Area Steve
November 21, 2008 6:13 PM | Link to this
Anybody know where I can find who we left unprotected for the Rule 5 draft, and which players are out of options, once spring arrives?
Coach, I’m not real worried about Thorman.
By AdirondackDave
November 21, 2008 6:14 PM | Link to this
Wayne — What did Towers say on XM? Thanks.
By Wayne
November 21, 2008 6:21 PM | Link to this
AdirondackDave A lot of bs, that amounted to nothing. Mentioned that they are only really talking with the Cubs, and something about not having to trade Peavy (what was that about the train leaving the station).
Basically, a load of bull. Was making lots of excuses about the Hoffman boo boo.
He’s probably in a tough spot, what with ownership giving him marching orders that might be contrary to what a normal GM would do.
By Chuck James is solid until the 6th!! (Formerly Steve-O)
November 21, 2008 6:43 PM | Link to this
I like Ibanez 2-$20 Mill 3rd Yr Option…
Again everyone, the Cubs don’t HAVE what it takes to get Peavy and yes “The train left the station.” That’s why Towers is an idiot GM, one of the worst, easily. He does’nt know how to bluff and play his cards tight like Wren. What I’m trying to say is Cubs will need four teams, never happening. Braves will get it done..BE PATIENT!!!! I like Fookie at 3yr-$40 mill, I think he’d take it to be back home with his “father figure” and back where he belongs. I think he’ll be OK. If not Renteria will be a definite. You know he’ll put up .325/.360 15HR/70RBI 35-40 DB’s and solid D not great. Renteria is the safest option but Furcal gives you the speed, leadoff and D. The playoffs he jus came back after months, his D was off after full rest and if Fookie stays healthy, he will be AMAZING, again he’s still only 31…Big risk but the reward could be amazing and I think he’d take even 3YR/$35 mill to come back home…
By Joe M. (Just say no to Oliver Perez)
November 21, 2008 6:47 PM | Link to this
More Peavy:
As for Atlanta, Towers said it appears as if talks are dead. Towers is believed to covet shortstop Yunel Escobar, the centerpiece of a proposed package, but he doesn’t think the Padres would be receiving enough in return for a former Cy Young Award winner signed at an affordable price.
“I take it they’re out,” Towers said. “They’re aggressively pursuing free agents, so I’d consider them out until I hear otherwise. We certainly had more substantial conversations with them. We pretty much went over all the players they have, and they know what we would do. As of now, I’m sure they’re not focused on us, and we’re not focused on them. But I wouldn’t be surprised if we revisited talks.”
By Efrim
November 21, 2008 6:50 PM | Link to this
Towers on Peavy trade talks:
http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2008/11/21/sports/padres/z038ff4ad868d76398825750700837655.txt
As for Atlanta, Towers said it appears as if talks are dead. Towers is believed to covet shortstop Yunel Escobar, the centerpiece of a proposed package, but he doesn’t think the Padres would be receiving enough in return for a former Cy Young Award winner signed at an affordable price.
“I take it they’re out,” Towers said. “They’re aggressively pursuing free agents, so I’d consider them out until I hear otherwise. We certainly had more substantial conversations with them. We pretty much went over all the players they have, and they know what we would do. As of now, I’m sure they’re not focused on us, and we’re not focused on them. But I wouldn’t be surprised if we revisited talks.”
By AdirondackDave
November 21, 2008 6:51 PM | Link to this
Wayne — Thanks for the report on Towers. The guy sounds like he’s between a rock and a hard place. I like to see Frank put in a bid on CC or Burnett and say so publicly. It might help get Towers off the dime. I know the Yanks have put in something like a 23M/per bid for CC but what’s to be lost by putting in a 19-21M/per bid for him? He may not be thrilled about the idea of going to the Bronx zoo. I wouldn’t and I’m only a couple hundred miles north of the new park.
By Wayne
November 21, 2008 7:03 PM | Link to this
A-Dave As much as I have loved my visits to NYC, I would think that an adjusted salary offer of 20 mil per season to go to an affordable city like Atlanta might be workable.
Like you say, it wouldn’t hurt. Towers to me comes off as an arrogant so and so.
Somebody needs to remind him of what happened to the Twins in the 2007 Johan Santana debacle.
Big Game Saturday coming up. Choose your poison!
By David O'Brien
November 21, 2008 7:25 PM | Link to this
Wayne, I’ll take Texas Tech, on the road, against the Sooners. That’s how much respect I have for the Red Raiders this year. Offense is all but unstoppable, and defense ain’t bad, either. I really think whoever wins the Big 12 championship will win the national title.
By TennesseePaul
November 21, 2008 7:29 PM | Link to this
Gammons on Brad Penny:
Brad Penny is so serious about his conditioning that, while he is off touring the land of chocolate and beer in Germany, he has taken the trainer he hired from Athletes’ Performance Institute with him to carry his lugage and souvenirs.
By Lew
November 21, 2008 7:34 PM | Link to this
DOB-Logic may dictate that Yunel WAS included, but since all we have is rumors, then no one knows for sure, do they? It’s all conjecture to me and holds as much weight as do some of the more absurd trade projections we see on numerous sites-none of which happen. Until Wren steps up and tells us exactly who was included, or actually consummates a trade it is rumor, conjecture or speculation and nothing else.
By Steve from OH
November 21, 2008 7:35 PM | Link to this
JoeM, I’ll bet that Garland gets that kind of a deal (name value!). My money is on the Giants, Dodgers or Mets giving it to him, with the Astros as a dark horse.
I wouldn’t be too fired up if we signed Perez as our second starter (assuming we either get Peavy, Lowe or Burnett first), but if the money is equal, I’d rather try to sign Sheets (injury history and all, I know). If Perez is our only offseason acquisition, then I would be pretty ticked. But I agree with Efrim, he’s better that Garland, at least.
The real question, to me, is who our LF bat is going to be. We really need a good LF bat.
By MattyRoss
November 21, 2008 7:40 PM | Link to this
DOB - No one from that conference will be able to touch Florida. Not to sound like a douche, but it doesn’t even seem close right now. If I had to take Florida vs. the Field right now, I would. Comfortably. Not that you asked…but hey, what the hell?
By BravesFanInRockies
November 21, 2008 7:41 PM | Link to this
Man, Lew, you’re a tough audience!
By BravesFanInRockies
November 21, 2008 7:42 PM | Link to this
Ever think of a career as a trial lawyer?
By AdirondackDave
November 21, 2008 7:44 PM | Link to this
Wayne — Yes, it’s hard to believe Towers has been a successful major league GM if this is the way he typically handles these situations. Actually when you think about it, gettiing CC for around 20m would allow the Braves to keep Escobar and the other guys. For me, that’s a no brainer. What a coup it would be for Wren if he could reel in CC AND Peavy. A rotation of CC, Jake, Jair, Hudson, and Hanson. Now that would be the Braves of the 90s and then some! A rotation for the ages…
By Couch Tater
November 21, 2008 7:54 PM | Link to this
Towers comes off as an arrogant so and so.
Yeah, but guess who was drafted #13 by the Braves in 1981.
By Lew
November 21, 2008 7:56 PM | Link to this
BravesFanINRockies-No I’m not tough, I just refuse to acknowledge what isn’t known for sure, that’s all. When the powers that be in this process decide to tell DOB and he reports it then I will believe it. I see no reason I should give all this speculation credence.
I’ve been here for four years now and during that time I’ve seen all kinds of useless supposition and totally off the wall trade scenarios. It’s become almost legendary to have someone propose trading Thorman (were he still a Brave), Lillibridge, Reyes, Morton, Boyer, Prado and four of five low A players for Sabbathia-or Ryan Freel.
Now maybe including Yunel in a deal for Peavy makes sense (I’d be real surprised if someone as good as him was NOT included), but it doesn’t mean that speculation has been correct. That’s all I’m saying. Until Peavy becomes a Brave, I believe nothing and take no rumor for anything more than it is-a rumor. I fail to see why this posture is considered dumb or even worthy of anyone’s notice. Quite honestly, WTF does it matter who was or wasn’t included in the proposal if nothing has come of it?
By AdirondackDave
November 21, 2008 7:58 PM | Link to this
Coach Tater — I’ll bite, who was drafter #13 in 1981 by the Braves?
By Lew
November 21, 2008 7:58 PM | Link to this
BravesFanInRockies-Nah, I’m not a lawyerly type. I am able to argue both sides of an argument, though and do upon occasion just for the VORP of it. Keeps life interesting during what can be the most boring of seasons for a baseball fan.
By JimD
November 21, 2008 8:02 PM | Link to this
*Yeah, but guess who was drafted #13 by the Braves in 1981. * Couch Tater
Technically Towers wasn’t drafted #13, he was drafted in the 13th rough - player #322.
By Couch Tater
November 21, 2008 8:11 PM | Link to this
Adirondack- The Towers of babble himself.
By Ebravesluvr
November 21, 2008 8:13 PM | Link to this
Screw Tex. I hope he ends up playing Japan so I don’t have to look at his arrogant, ugly a* face :-)
PLEASE RED SOX, don’t sign Tex! (I’m a Braves fan in Vermont and don’t want to watch his damn face every night and every day on NESN).
Oh yeah…GO BRAVES!
By JimD
November 21, 2008 8:13 PM | Link to this
Sorry, that should be 13th round
By mdhos
November 21, 2008 8:14 PM | Link to this
You people need a life including my husband who reads this crap
By Couch Tater
November 21, 2008 8:17 PM | Link to this
Thanks for clarifying JimD. I was in the 13th rough yesterday. D@mn double bogey.
By N8
November 21, 2008 8:18 PM | Link to this
DOB
Great point about the December 1st arbitration deadline causing some signings (or lack there of), to drag out a bit.
So, is it safe to assume that after December 1st the dominos will begin to fall, one after the other?
Why on earth would Renteria be a Class A type free agent with the year he had, yet Ohman NOT be?
I’m totally confused at what causes a guy to be considered worthy of a draft pick going to his former team.
Randy Wolf? Seriously? Puuuleeeez! Why bother? I’d rather watch Campillo and Bennett pitch every fifth day, then see Wren waste money (and possilbe draft picks) on Randy Wolf.
By thirdwheel3131
November 21, 2008 8:22 PM | Link to this
Dave, What do you think about this:
If the Braves can’t land Peavy, and since the FA pitchers (and hitters for that matter) don’t really seem worth the money (Ie: burnett and health risks, Burrell and hitting .210 in the second half)
What do you think about the Braves moving a similar package to the Brewers for something like Prince Fielder and JJ Hardy. Fielder’s name keeps coming up in trade rumors. The Braves offense is anemic and Kotchman is clearly a place holder.
Why not try and make a move for a Fielder type and lock him up, instead of wasting 60 mil on a pitcher (Burnett or Sheets) who need a MASH unit following them around.
Then sign Ibanez as a place holder for Heyward. As for pitching.. Frankly, without Peavy, they might as well just punt for a year and see what develops with their young guys. Look for getting a more legit ace in next years FA crop or via a mid-year trade.
Of course trading for a Fielder type and an ace would decimate the farm, but I can’t solve all the problems in one what if scenario…
By Ebravesluvr
November 21, 2008 8:23 PM | Link to this
mdhos
You REALLY just came on this blog telling us to get a life because it’s “crap” yet, you came on here to read it??? Irony.
By Random
November 21, 2008 8:27 PM | Link to this
THE BEAR (@ 9:26 AM)—
WTF?
Or rather,
FTH? (RIP, FJM!)
I did quote you “correctly” — I cut and pasted. Little room for error there.
As you said, Wren made a couple of statements that you found “interesting”.
I wanted to discuss only the one about Kelly Johnson, so I elided the one about Escobar. That’s what the ellipses represent.
That, my dear Bear, is not misquoting — it’s standard practice and commonplace.
Plus, I haven’t “attacked” anyone here at all.
(Lately.)
I poked some fun at young Flustered — and I have to admit that he took it with considerably better grace than you show, and I wasn’t even messin’ with you!
I really appreciated your passing along that info from Wren. I thought it was “interesting”, too.
I didn’t take nothin’ “out of context” — if anyone did, it was you.
Thanks to nolie, we do have a transcript of Wren’s Q&A, which quickly makes it clear that Wren’s two statements that you found “interesting” were responses to two separate questions — the first from “Thanatos”, and the scond (4 questions later) from “rbt778”.
And I really do not understand your obsession with “paraphrasing” — that’s a non-issue. Of course I realized you were CYAing, and I perpetuated your provisions so as to avoid getting you (and me) D&Qed if you had somehow misremembered. Like I said earlier, I just cut and pasted.
And like I also said earlier, I was just trying to get a discussion going on something Wren said that I (like you) found “interesting”.
And braves n dawgs, nolie and (perhaps only coincidentally, or (hopefully) serendipitously) Anders, **Efrim, Lew & Dixie Dawg picked it up, and a genteel and insightful (on their parts, not mine) discussion ensued.
I certainly was not attacking you (nor was I directing any “crap” at you) — like I said earlier, Thanks for passing that info along.
PS: Take It Easy, ‘cause Easy Does It.
PPS: Little “effort” is required to post a comment here, as you have so ably demonstrated.
By helopilot
November 21, 2008 8:34 PM | Link to this
All, This may go down in blog history….or not. mdhos is actually my wife, who got on here while I was….umm indisposed for a few minutes and posted the blasphemy. She does not have anything against ya’ll, just me for constantly reading the ole blog. My sincere apologies to all, and she has been “counseled”. By the way, she likes the Bravo’s too, she just gets a little fed up with me…….fire away.
By Steve from OH
November 21, 2008 8:39 PM | Link to this
N8, it’s a formula based on the last two years (in this case, 07 and 08), and it’s, well, just read this.
By Salty Dawg
November 21, 2008 8:48 PM | Link to this
All, This may go down in blog history….or not. mdhos is actually my wife, who got on here while I was….umm indisposed for a few minutes and posted the blasphemy. She does not have anything against ya’ll, just me for constantly reading the ole blog. My sincere apologies to all, and she has been “counseled”. By the way, she likes the Bravo’s too, she just gets a little fed up with me…….fire away.
helopilot
Well, tell her to get back in the kitchen and stay off the blog.
By Roach
November 21, 2008 8:49 PM | Link to this
Is there anyone else who has anxiety over this PEAVY thing???
By David O'Brien
November 21, 2008 8:52 PM | Link to this
N8, just got back to the house and noticed that Steve from OH already answered the question, just before I could. He’s correct, it’s past two years. And even then, it’s very suspect in some cases, particularly with how they group together players (i.e. all relievers).
By Steve from OH
November 21, 2008 8:54 PM | Link to this
Random, RIP FJM indeed. I’m gonna miss that site.
By helopilot
November 21, 2008 9:00 PM | Link to this
Salty, You pushed the right button…..now I’m not only worried over all of the trade rumors and such, now I’m running around the house trying to protect the laptop. Talk about irony…I’ve been reading in the shadows for two years now, and all of a sudden BAM!! I live in Enterprise, AL, so if ya’ll see a man killed in a domestic violence case….save this for evidence.
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
November 21, 2008 9:08 PM | Link to this
Who could the Braves be targeting that is not being written about? I have looked at all staffs, and I just can’t find anyone.
I remember reading that Seattle was not overly impressed with Bedard…would they consider trading him? What’s his status?
What about an old pal in Millwood?
The Angels are not trading anyone.
Oakland appears to be trying to make a run.
Go through each team by division, and it becomes even clearer that Peavy is a must.
By nolie
November 21, 2008 9:09 PM | Link to this
What I’m trying to say is Cubs will need four teams, never happening. Braves will get it done..BE PATIENT!!!! I like Fookie at 3yr-$40 mill, I think he’d take it to be back home with his “father figure” and back where he belongs. I think he’ll be OK. If not Renteria will be a definite. You know he’ll put up .325/.360 15HR/70RBI 35-40 DB’s and solid D not greaWayne @ 6:21
I gotta disagree with both of these. If they pay Furcal 13 mil you can scratch either a starting pitcher or the LF bopper out of the payroll. I do not want either to happen,nor do I wanna worry about his back. Plus so far he is saying no to three year offers…might change. As for Renteria, he has only had 2 seasons anywhere near .325 and has never hit 15 homers, and he looked terrible last season. He might come to the Braves and bounce back some, but I think you are projecting way above what is likely to happen even if he does.and his D is no longer even decent,closer to mediocre every time I watched him play last year.Nostalgia is all warm & fuzzy, butI’ll pass on both this time around. If I need to feel good about the Braves, I’ll go read a Bill Shanks column. ;-)
By David O'Brien
November 21, 2008 9:09 PM | Link to this
Helopilot, I’ve got a PowerBookG4. Sounds like your machine came with the optional BallandChain software.
You should just say to her, in a calm but firm voice, the 16 words (see above)….
MattyRoss: You see it one way, I see it entirely differently. No problem….
By the way, Wayne, you didn’t give your own choice when you said pick our poison.
By Ebravesluvr
November 21, 2008 9:13 PM | Link to this
ROFL @ ball and chain attachment.
HEY! I resemble…er, I mean, resent that statement!!
By nolie
November 21, 2008 9:15 PM | Link to this
I’m totally confused at what causes a guy to be considered worthy of a draft pick going to his former teamN8
the ranking of his last two seasons against the same for everybody else at his position. Edgars fantastic ‘07 kept him up there.
By Random
November 21, 2008 9:17 PM | Link to this
mitchie-san: “I left Japan about a year ago and got orders to Hawaii. ( I’m in the U.S. Navy )”
Sweet!!!
I’m not sure if I mentioned this to you previously (like I recently mentioned to Lew, I’ve been “running down” faster and faster recently, and everyone says that the memory is the first to go) — I left Japan to return to the States last Oct. I had been working at NAF Atsugi for four years. My ID said “Navy Civilian”, but I was actually DCMA.
Small world — where were you stationed? Atsugi? Kamaseya? Yokosuka? Down south somewhere?
Anyway, hajime mashite! Dozo yoroshiku onegai shimasu!!!
Otsukare sama de! Etc.
By nolie
November 21, 2008 9:18 PM | Link to this
Nobody has said what they think about Stark’s assertion that Ibanez is on the top of the Braves wish list for position players.I’m ok with him, are y’all?
By Steve from OH
November 21, 2008 9:23 PM | Link to this
“optional BallandChain software.”
Classic.
By checha
November 21, 2008 9:24 PM | Link to this
I’ve waited for (Peevey) weeks for someone to think like me. Why give up prospects, ML starters, that have to be replaced when you just have to anti-up for CC 200+ innings and add another 120 innings as a PH on days off. He and Mike Hampton could go that way and then we’d solve the lack of a LF slugger and the two starting pitchers for under $30M. This is betting Hampton’s injuries are behind him and CC is a horse unlike most all the other pitchers discussed We can keep three speedy CF for defense in LF and team SB’s. Let the kid’s develop and bring them up as they prove themselves, regardless if in AA, AAA or NL. Now We have money to invest and minor league’rs to bring up or trade as needed. What does DOB think about that and B’s BBQ here in Greenville, NC
By brent a.
November 21, 2008 9:27 PM | Link to this
DOB
After reading your 5:51 regarding Escobar’s response to being a potential trade piece, I can’t help but think that the Braves will use him in a trade, whether it be for Peavy, or whatever is next on their list.
Often, it can be tough getting a guy to re-focus, once he’s become upset by trade rumors, or other related speculation.
By chipper 'n' dale
November 21, 2008 9:45 PM | Link to this
jasoninfl,
regarding your millwood idea, heyman is saying the rangers are shopping him, and that the braves are interested.
what about a trade for millwood and nelson cruz (right-handed corner outfielder)? that would kill two birds with one stone. then the braves could throw the rest of their money at burnett or lowe.
i wonder what that trade would cost.
By Efrim
November 21, 2008 9:46 PM | Link to this
Ken Rosenthal has a new article up:
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8828842/Giants,-A’s-leading-Furcal-sweepstakes
Nothing new really. Things on Furcal seem to be moving faster than expected. I have a feeling he’d wait to see if the Cubs or Braves go after him. Maybe he is just waiting for that fourth year to be offered.
By brian
November 21, 2008 9:47 PM | Link to this
at least if we sign Perez we don’t have to face him anymore. That is about the only benefit for Perez. With all the talent he has he seems to have Jo Jo’s mental make up for MLB. Jo Jo is at least young and has yet to hit his prime.
Towers sure knows how to play a game of chicken with Wren. Quotes above seem to hint he is telling Wren that Wren knows what the Pads want and to come back to the table when he is ready to give it to them
By AdirondackDave
November 21, 2008 9:58 PM | Link to this
Checha — I think I agree with you. Hard for me to figure out why we don’t just bite the bullet and make a strong offer for CC. The guy’s as good as it gets and helps the bullpen with his innings. We’d get to keep Escobar which would then enable the Braves to trade Johnson for a power outfielder and give second base job to Prado. So why isn’t FW going hard for CC? Or is he and we just don’t know about it? Any thoughts people?
By Random
November 21, 2008 10:03 PM | Link to this
TennesseePaul: “Gammons on Brad Penny”
Hahahahaha!!! Laugh out loud funny.
Thanks.
PS: How do you post your stats charts here? Just wondering.
(THEY DEFY ALL CONSTRAINTS OF TIME AND SPACE AND EXCEED THE RIGHT MARGIN!!!)
Bay Area Steve: “Anybody know where I can find who we left unprotected for the Rule 5 draft, and which players are out of options, once spring arrives?”
DOB 20 Oct 6:49 PM: “Braves sent out a release while ago announcing the moves to finalize their protected (40-man) roster while I was on the treadmill.”
“If you haven’t see it elsewhere: SS Diory Hernandez and RHPs Stephen Marek and Todd Redmond were added along with a lefty they claimed off waivers from Seattle, a dude with a solid name: Eric O’Flaherty. I’ll be writing good stuff about O’Flaherty regardless of how her performs, needless to say.”
“He’s 23 and had a 20.25 ERA in seven relief appearances with the Mariners last year. But those numbers are misleading, folks.”
“The Braves had already opened room on the 40-man with guys who became free agents and release of Scott Thorman, etc.”
By JimD
November 21, 2008 10:04 PM | Link to this
I think the reason FW may not be going for CC is that the stated goal is to get 2 front of the rotation starters. Peavy’s affordable salary makes that proposition easier. To get the 2 starters via free agency is a tad expensive.
Of course, factor in a SS salary if Esco is traded, and I don’t know. Maybe it’s a wash. We shall see.
By AdirondackDave
November 21, 2008 10:06 PM | Link to this
Brian — I’m not so sure that’s what Towers is saying to Wren. Why is he bothering to say what Wren already knows? It did sound like an invite back for discussions to me. If I were FW, I would take Towers up on another round of discussions, maybe tweak the offer a bit without giving up anything significant… Might allow Towers to save a bit a face and get the deal done.
By Braveheart
November 21, 2008 10:09 PM | Link to this
First off, what is an “ace” to everyone? I think opinions vary on that one. For many, it’s a guy that is a top-notch pitcher in the league that is able to dominate on any given night. So how many are out there?
Tommy, these are my Magnificent 7 aces in the game over the last few years:
Santana, Sabathia, Halladay, Webb, Peavy, Oswalt, Smoltz, Hamels
Lincecum, Hudson, Beckett, Haren, Harden, Zambrano, Sheets, Lackey are on that next tier to me
Then my third tier of young fellas on the rise would be:
Cain, Felix, Billingsley, Lester, Kazmir, DiceK, Shields, Kazmir, Lee, Greinke, Wainwright, Weaver, Ervin Santana, Carmona, Wang, Joba, Volzquez, Verlander, Jurrjens, Liriano
Here is my third tier of solid vets:
Lowe, Meche, Buehrle, pettitte, Mussina, Arroyo, Moyer, Harang, Randy Johnson, Burnett, Bedard,
I’m missing some and should differentiate better on the third tier but I’m too lazy to do so now …… but that’s kind of how I see the difference making arms in the game today that I would care to get my hands on.
By Some Blogs Have Ogden Nash Pretenders (or Piet Hein)
November 21, 2008 10:21 PM | Link to this
One Secret to a Happy Marriage
Men,
Never
Marry above your stations —
Only marry a woman
With low expectations.
By Reality
November 21, 2008 10:22 PM | Link to this
Braves Acquire Jake Peavy
By David O’Brien
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Monday December 9, 2013
The Braves, after years of trying, have finally got their man. Braves’ General Manager Bruce Manno confirmed to the AJC that the contract for the former Tommy John surgery recipient is for one year and five million dollars.
“Good to finally put the Jake Peavy rumors to rest” added Manno.
By Random
November 21, 2008 10:31 PM | Link to this
Is no one here psyched about Atlanta hosting the 2013 NCAA Final Four?!?
By N8
November 21, 2008 10:41 PM | Link to this
Steve, DOB & Nolie
Thank you. I always thought it was based on the past season only, which is why I was confused. I had no idea that it was the past two seasons.
I guess that just shows how Andruw’s “dive-bomb” was NOT just a one year slump, huh? If they went on his past two seasons, (before leaving atlanta), anyhow.
Yikes.
By nolie
November 21, 2008 10:44 PM | Link to this
There is an article on the MLB.COM Giants site that says that there are negotiating with Renteria right now.
By Salty Dawg
November 21, 2008 11:03 PM | Link to this
So who do you think is more likely to be with Boston in 2009, Tech’s Tex or Tek? I think it’s where Tex will end up.
Regarding Teixeira, I know that the Bravos have plenty of proverbial irons in the fire and 1st base isn’t really a hot topic, but is it outside the realm of possibility that the Braves would make an offer? Aside from his slow start, you can’t dismiss the effect his bat and presence had on the Braves. If he could be had for a long term contract at roughly $20 mil per, would the Braves be interested? That doesn’t resolve the OF issue, but it sure as heck sews up the cleanup spot and a big bat is a big bat. And I know that the Braves don’t like those long term contracts, but it is what the market dictates if you want the best players. Not to mention, $20 mil could very well be a steal 5 years from now with the salary inflation in pro sports.
By Braveheart
November 21, 2008 11:18 PM | Link to this
I think the reason FW may not be going for CC is that the stated goal is to get 2 front of the rotation starters. Peavy’s affordable salary makes that proposition easier. To get the 2 starters via free agency is a tad expensive.
The thinking may be that, for next season, he can have Jake, Furcal and Ohman for the same salary CC would get……. or have Jake, Furcal, and an arb-eligible left fielder for about the same salary next season ….. or that he can have Jake and a vet like pettitte for the same salary as CC next season
It’s a shame though that we can’t get CC. I would have loved to have seen the Braves go after CC by at least making a competitive offer. You never know. He might have come here for less. He wants to stay in the NL but likely wants to be in Kali or go to the highest bidder …. but, you never know ‘til you offer if you’ll get rejected.
I think they’re missing something by not going after him. If you look at the Vick phenomenon, in a town that is often called Black Mecca in America and that is over half black, I might be willing to take a risky gamble from a business and marketing stance that if we got a larger than life African American baseball talent that we know will be around for a while and that this town hasn’t really had for baseball since the Justice and Grissom trade, that we may be able to get more butts in the seats. (everyone knew the whole time that Sheffield was nothing more than a mercenary rental for a year or two and thus folks didn’t buy into him as much as they otherwise may have).
I’ve always wondered if one of the reasons for the lack of postseason attendance and the overall dwindling attendance during the regular season as the streak wore on was because we lost a section of our African American casual baseball fanbase after the Justice and Grissom trades. Maybe I’m wrong but I don’t know ….. it does seem like this team was never more popular and prosperous than when we had really strong black talent and personalities in a black city like Grissom, Justice, Nixon, Terry, Deion, Gant, Crime Dog.
Maybe there was never any erosion in the black casual baseball fan base in Atlanta for the Braves … but if there was, could CC help recapture and re-energize some of that lost fan base? ….. if he can by 2000 or so fans a game, and the Braves have a budget at about $40 per fan who attends, they could gain $5 to $7 mil by having him and a $24 mil salary is more like $17 to $19 mil.
But who knows? I’m sure the Braves have their folks who look into stuff like that and have made the calculation that it doesn’t quite work that way, that they can’t afford him and that the scouts think he may be an injury risk.
Besides, that kind of risky, maybe faulty, and maybe overly optimistic economic promise in signing someone to a contract is what got the Rangers in trouble when Boras got the Rangers to give Arod twice what he should have gotten because he somehow convinced Hicks that Arod was gonna rally the Latinos in Texas to come to Rangers games.
I think the difference though is that folks too often incorrectly lump Latinos into one class as if they all identify with one another as a class when they often are more naturally concerned with their nation of origin. Arod was an Americanized Dominican Latino and wasn’t gonna have universal appeal to Mexican Latinos in Texas.
I mean just because I was white didn’t mean I liked Christian Laettner or John Stockton. I hated those guys. But I loved Chris Mullin because I am an Irish Catholic like Mullin.
Not trying to start any dumb race thing ….. I’ve just wondered for a while what the effect of that Justice/Grissom trade was with the casual black baseball fan in Atlanta….. and wonder how much attendance would increase if we had dynamic black stars like Rollins/Howard or Sabathia/Fielder ….. I guess we may have to wait until Heyward takes the town over to get our answer
By chipper 'n' dale
November 21, 2008 11:18 PM | Link to this
in further support of my kevin millwood/nelson cruz trade idea, while millwood’s contract isn’t the best at around 11 million per, nelson cruz’s contract is near league minimum and he isn’t even arb. eligible until 2010. furthermore, this trade probably wouldn’t cost us esco or kelly like the peavy or ludwick trade scenarios (rangers are set in the middle infield). it seems like the rangers need young, cheap pitching and bullpen help—an area of depth for the braves. plus, based on the budget estimates thrown around on this site, the braves would have enough money leftover to sign burnett or lowe and maybe even sign sheets in addition to those moves if the price is right.
By Braveheart
November 21, 2008 11:27 PM | Link to this
Is no one here psyched about Atlanta hosting the 2013 NCAA Final Four?!?
Not really. It’s cool that we get events like that but it’s not like it’s the first time we’ve gotten it or things like it. It’s 5 years from now anyway. But it is cool that Atlanta got that
By Dixie Dawg
November 21, 2008 11:33 PM | Link to this
Random, I think Flustered took it in stride and didn’t think a thing about it, though, I have to admit…he should have read the other comments better before pulling a Coach ;)
By SC James
November 21, 2008 11:40 PM | Link to this
I have read on different websites that the Braves have been looking to trade for Kevin Millwood or signing Paul Byrd. I still also believe that the Braves will still get Peavy before it is all said and done. What does everyone think of a rotation of: Peavy, Jurrjens, Hampton, Byrd/Millwood, and Hanson???
By Couch Tater
November 21, 2008 11:45 PM | Link to this
Braveheart- Well are you psyched about the SEC championship?
By Breaking News
November 21, 2008 11:48 PM | Link to this
Michael Vick cements his status as a HOF/POS by putting family pets in with killer dogs
By Dixie Dawg
November 21, 2008 11:50 PM | Link to this
The Peavy thing is a liability waiting to happen, clean MRI or not.
By uga-brave
November 21, 2008 11:52 PM | Link to this
braveheart,
plus c.c. would match the homerun production that we got from right field in the second half.
By Choppin Bob
November 21, 2008 11:59 PM | Link to this
SC James:
Although pitching is important, consider the lackluster outfield & 1B production. They can pitch great but when 44% of your line up doesn’t produce consistently and losing 1 run games don’t help.
By AdirondackDave
November 22, 2008 12:04 AM | Link to this
Interesting article on the ajc Braves “page”. Officials are having trouble with the contract for stadium naming rights. This is the first concrete instance I’ve seen regarding the economy downturn affecting baseball directly. It surely won’t the the last. I think the free agents who hold out for that bigger offer may be kicking themselves before long.
By Scottbravesfan
November 22, 2008 12:09 AM | Link to this
I agree I’m surprised the Braves haven’t tried to sign CC so they could market him to all the black people in Atlanta. Could be like Fernando mania back in the 80s in LA with all the Mexican fans. It would be smart for the Braves to try and get some big name black players it would help their marketing to the people that actually live in the city of Atlanta which is mostly black.
By uga-brave
November 22, 2008 12:12 AM | Link to this
couch tater,
i have read some of your posts. i gather that you might be a dawgs fan. what is your take on 35 plus martinez?
By Couch Tater
November 22, 2008 12:18 AM | Link to this
Sorry uga, Bama ‘79.
By Mad Money
November 22, 2008 12:29 AM | Link to this
All Iron Man Rotation:Burnett, Sheets,Wood, Hampton and Pavano.I guess that would be called living the American Dream for each one of those thieves.Anyone have some time on his or her hands and want to calculate cost of each win? Wow! And now someone is going to make the same mistake again for each of these guys. How did these owners get rich?? I know how William Clay Ford got rich, but he’s just incompetent. I wouldn’t call him stupid. Now paying Carl Pavano and Mike Hampton would be really stupid. Agreed?
By Nocturnal Owl
November 22, 2008 12:30 AM | Link to this
I don’t think that we should be so obsessed with coming back in 09 with a vengence. Dixie Dawg
I understand we should not hurt the future. We won’t. We are the Atlanta Braves and shall compete. There will be no nine year rebuilding process like the Pirates. That is the mentality and expectations for a superior organization like the BRAVES. We will regroup not rebuild. Were in good hands with Wren regarding the future prospects. With last year’s trades sealed in the books, I feel very comfortable with Wren making the decisions up top.
I agree I’m surprised the Braves haven’t tried to sign CC so they could market him to all the black people in Atlanta
who cares what color CC is. The overweight dude wants ridicules money for a long long period of time. I see possible problems towards the end of the decade long contract. Barry Zito what? Not saying he will follow but lessons learned from smarter G.M’s. Not saying we shouldn’t go after him. It would be a delight to p** of Mini MI boss in Yankee land.
Steve from OH Thanks for the FA Types Link. I had been wondering how Renteria would be an A. As always you’re on top of things. Your inputs are very much appreciated.
Wonder what Coach will do this late of night. One lonely Owl…..(º•º)…
.LOL McFann!
By uga-brave
November 22, 2008 12:30 AM | Link to this
WW, i will be at the dome on dec. 6th.
my company has had club seats for a long time and i have always been lucky enough to get the sec b’ball tourney seats and the sec champ football tix.
if BAMA is 12-0 & UF is 11-1 it will be the toughest ticket since either of the superbowls.
the atmosphere around the dome and CNN center will be off the chain.
i have been to happy valley, arizonia state, texas a&m, the horseshoe, and the big house.
not to sound snobby, but nothing beats great southern college football.
note: i did not just say the sec, both clemson and free shoes have good game day set ups.
two best coaches in the conference saban VS. meyer.
they might be the two best in the country.
urban crier has won everywhere and saban is well saban.
By Nocturnal Owl
November 22, 2008 12:36 AM | Link to this
gather that you might be a dawgs fan
……
Sorry uga, Bama ‘79
Couch Tater Hmmm You might become a good poker player.
By Wayne
November 22, 2008 12:40 AM | Link to this
Been out for about 4 hours. Sorry to take so long to respond.
DOB I always like to pull for Boise State. Being in Utah, almost everybody here is Blue (BYU) or Red (Utah). Personally, I have no strong allegiances to either. Clemson is NOT playing USC (east) so I don’t have a true dog in the fight tomorrow. Definitely agree on the Red Raiders. Watched them a few weeks ago for the first time (OK State), and it is easy to be a fan of that offense.
uga and WW I too like the CC idea. If the Braves offered 16 million per year for 4 years for Burnett, why not ratchet it up to $20 mil per for 5 years w/ a mutual option for years 6 and 7 for CC?? Atlanta is a heckuva lot less expensive than NY, SF, or LA.
Dude would be a “God” in Atlanta.
If we signed CC, then all we would have to do is sign Hampton, and play both of them on the corners when they aren’t pitching to really ramp up our offense.
Is Micah Owings available???
Nolie At 9:09 you had posted a response to me, for a post I submitted at 6:21pm. I was really confused, but when I went back, it wasn’t me that made the comments you were referring to (about Furcal and other points). I agree with your points, not the other dude.
CCMania in ATL in ‘09! Sounds like a plan to me.
Lew Were you dissin’ on my man Freel earlier. You know, he runs through walls like a freight train!
:-)
By uga-brave
November 22, 2008 12:48 AM | Link to this
coach tater,
major ogilvie.
i was like ten when the great bama vs. psu goal line stand in the sugar bowl.
to think jo-pa is still doing it. tomorrow might be his last regular season game.
like him or not but joe pa does it right.
By Couch Tater
November 22, 2008 12:51 AM | Link to this
uga, Thank you for your diplomatic response about coach Saban.(lol) The Dawgs season has certainly less than expected and that starts on the defense. It will be interesting to see what happens in Knoxville. I expect about the same type of game with Awbarn as you guys had saturday. To the wire.
By Couch Tater
November 22, 2008 1:02 AM | Link to this
I went to that Sugar Bowl with no ticket or room. Got in the game for 10 bucks. The room was provided by two girls from Hattiesburg who were there for New Years.
By Wayne (Micah Owings for LF)
November 22, 2008 1:03 AM | Link to this
Saban is definitely good, but he is also darn easy to not like. (in a similar was as Spurrier).
I know the SEC is tops, but for the size of the fan base, it gets real intense out here on the big game day!
By Wayne (Micah Owings for LF)
November 22, 2008 1:07 AM | Link to this
Dayn the Mets fan has an interesting article on FoxSports. Talking about how every year, teams overpay for pitching.
I like the Peavy deal, but I sure wonder about some of the other contracts being offered.
Would we be better off in the long run going with some short term patches, while waiting for a couple of our boys to develop or heal?
(and earlier I was talking about offereing CC 20 mil) Talking out of my azz, it would seem.
By Couch Tater
November 22, 2008 1:12 AM | Link to this
So Wayne, you still have a lot of caterpillars crawlin’?
By uga-brave
November 22, 2008 1:15 AM | Link to this
wayne,
i will take the sooners and lay the number.
dont buy the hype. texas tech is good but i got a hunch they will be playing catch up all night long in norman.
wayne,
So who is going to be the next tigers coach?
i heard they inteviewed illinois’ offensive cooridinator today.
not exactly riveting. if i was IPTAY i would go after tuberville, kiffin, or kelly from cinci.
the right guy at clemson could build a powerhouse.
two jobs available in the south, clemson and tennessee.
who would you rather play every year, georgia and florida or georgia tech and virginia?
less pressure at clemson.
hard to believe that tommy bowden spent 10 years at clemson and never won the conference nor never won 10 games in a season.
that last name carries weight.
though the bowden days are fast approaching a dead end. two jobless sons and a program that is mediocre in the powerhouse that is the ACC.
By GSUbravesFan
November 22, 2008 1:20 AM | Link to this
DOB, Goin to Key West, wondering if you had been there and can tell me any must do’s. Thanks.
By Wayne (Micah Owings for LF)
November 22, 2008 1:20 AM | Link to this
Tater Yep, along with Deere’s and other strange thangs….
By Wayne (Micah Owings for LF)
November 22, 2008 1:28 AM | Link to this
uga I really don’t follow it closely enough to say. All my red-necked friends want a return of Danny Ford!
I would think it would be a good place for a strong young coach to build up a dynasty. We’ll see.
I loved living there. Was accepted but never attended as an undergraduate back in ‘73 …. went other directions. Went back as a married grad student w/ two kids and one on the way in my mid-30’s. Had a wonderful year there. #3 was born, and in August of ‘92, I walked on stage to get my diploma w/ a 2 month old in my arms.
Got great pix of it. The pres said, “It looks like you’ve been busy this year!” I said, “Man, you’ll never know!”
You might be right about the Red Raiders, but I am pullin’ for em.
Tater All my customers get “re-tired”.
By uga-brave
November 22, 2008 1:32 AM | Link to this
couch tater,
no doubt in my mind that saban is as good or better then any coach in the country.
i would not of said it before this year. but to turn it into this in a year and a half?
granted the sec west was down and alabama did not play uf in the regular season.
well there will be a reckoning.
if saban pulls this one off he should be knighted by king and queen of the talladega 500.
By Couch Tater
November 22, 2008 1:34 AM | Link to this
Good to hear, Wayne. Coach Saban is like that sales manager that gets results, but has a frickin’ 3:00pm sales meeting on Friday afternoon.
By Daybed Wagmoe
November 22, 2008 1:39 AM | Link to this
I interpret Towers’ above comments above as saying — and doing it publicly so that Frank Wren reads it — “I hope that we revisit talks with Atlanta, but I want them to make the first move.” Don’t know if that’s accurate, but that’s what I read into it.
By uga-brave
November 22, 2008 1:48 AM | Link to this
wayne,
you the man.
there are certain smells that you associate.
whenever you remember the smell of a restaurant, or a bar, for me it was the odyssey in athens during the late 80’s.
By Couch Tater
November 22, 2008 1:48 AM | Link to this
So uga what should my 81 year old mom do about her 403b that’s playing like a certain right fielder. She wants a batter that’s consistent even at a low avg.
By Cheyenne
November 22, 2008 1:48 AM | Link to this
nolie I was surprised that Stark said that Ibanez was the Braves primary interest as a position player at this point. I like the idea though and am great with getting him for a couple of years.He can really hit well year after year.
By Wayne (Micah Owings for LF)
November 22, 2008 1:50 AM | Link to this
Daybed I wouldn’t be surprised if FW has one of his lieutenants call the Pads to see how things are progressing in “letting the train leave the staion”. It would be foolish for either to let pride get in the way of a good deal for both teams.
FW will probably give Towers a chance to save face.
I was just remembering legendary baseball coach Chal Port from the Citadel (I think he retire in the early 90’s). Guy was quite a character. I remember a reporter asking him about several of his top players, I think they were in the hunt for the college WS.
He answered a few questions about a couple of players, then they asked him about his first baseman, “Coach, Do you think so and so has a chance at a career in the major leagues?” Coach Port answered, “He is going to make a fine officer!”
His said his hitting theory was; “Swing hard, hell you might hit the ball.”
We need more characters in the game, and less flakes like Manny.
Gotta run tonight. Lots of work to do on the morrow…..
By uga-brave
November 22, 2008 2:03 AM | Link to this
coach tater,
i heard you once comment on some of my other then sports comments.
either way i was trader on a nasdaq trading desk.
well actually the one that is trading around $50.00.
everyone else is submarining.
volatility index is near 80. for the novices not named LOU VALES. oh by the way LOU VALES YOU are wrong.
institutions base there investments on market cap.
as for pension funds, well who knows.
By T. K. Wetherdunce
November 22, 2008 2:17 AM | Link to this
If Bobby wasn’t resticted by apparent lack of lucidity, he would right now be arranging to circumvent every nepotism law in the state of Florida by naming Terry—-Is ANYONE ever going to have the guts to tell what happened with Terry at Auburn and the relevance of that activity to why he has not coached in a decade?—-as offensive coordinator, petulant, little boy Tommy as defensive coordinator, Jeffy as special teams coach and Steve as Treasurer of the Athletic Dept. A MUST see is the Bobby Bowden show every Sunday afternoon. Some of the greatest hilarity since Benny Hill—note resemblance. How can a man who isn’t lucid enough to participate in a 30 second half time interview be allowed to pass himself off as a coach of a major university. That he receives credit for wins while EVERY writer in the country recognizes Jimbo Fischer is the REAl Head Coach is a travesty. Of course when you name a stadium after a guy, construct a statue of him and commission a mural you would see why it might be a tad difficult to get him to leave. Final stage in the near Deification process should be construction of a city within a city in Tallahassee. It would be modeled after Vatican City and Bobby could have the FSU Board of Trustees serve as the equivalent of the Swiss Guard. If this was England you could wager on who will be the last man standing in this wrestling style Texas Death Match between him and Joe Pa. The sad thing is that Paterno is actually involved with coaching his team and he has to compete with someone as detached from his team as Isiah Thomas is from reality.
By Wilson
November 22, 2008 2:30 AM | Link to this
DOB, I, like you believe the Peavy deal will eventually get done, but do you have any idea of how long it will be before Towers comes back to the table to start negotiations again?
By uga-brave
November 22, 2008 2:37 AM | Link to this
couch tater,
there is major rally coming. not saying it is the end of this decline, but a major rally that will take us to 9200.
we are in decline no doubt but evey bear market has quick rallys.
i already threw my chips into today. the dow hit today at 7600. it closed around 8000. options expiration day.
i will bet we hit 9200 before the next decline.
By uga-brave
November 22, 2008 3:07 AM | Link to this
the world is not ending. flange will back me up on this.
i called the lehman, bear stearns thing a long time ago.
this is a wealth changer.
certain people have foresight others have panic.
then there are people like LOU VALES.
this will soon pass. there is without no doubt a lot of toxic debt on the balance sheets of banks. citi, bank of A, jp morgan, and wells.
but this is a oppurtunity. even if we hit 7200. this is a chance to buy the s&p 500.
do any of you realize that we are now trading 28% below the 50 day moving average.
the best situation i have ever seen to lean into the wind.
sorry steve from ohio. time to push in.
By David O'Brien
November 22, 2008 3:44 AM | Link to this
do any of you realize that we are now trading 28% below the 50 day moving average.
the best situation i have ever seen to lean into the wind.uga-brave
Agree with you there. Wish I had 10 Gs sitting around to throw in the market, but it’s all tied up there already. Maybe I should re-fi the house again and … no wait, that kind of thinking is what helped get the country in this mess to begin with, wasn’t it? Maybe I’ll just throw $5 grand in, sell the Triumph and … no, wait, then I’d have no get-around-town bike. Nevermind. I’ll just wait for it to rally. Not like I’m dipping into my 401K and IRAs for about 20 years anyway….
All you “Bama faithful (and damn, do we have a lot here, or what?). Did I ever mention that I was covering the ‘Canes for the Sun-Sentinel during the 1991 and ‘92 seasons (Dennis Erickson coaching, Duane Johnson, Rohan Marley are the guys I remember most, because one became “The Rock” and the other was Bob Marley’s son), and I thus covered the ‘93 Sugar Bowl, where your Crimson Tide basically ended the UM run of excellence?
Still one of the most exciting, lively atmospheres I’ve ever been a part of for sports. So loud in that Superdome, so many ‘Bama fans making so much noise, made it hard to even concentrate to write in that open pressbox….
Anyway, figured you guys could always stand to take another look at The Play, which I still remember as if it happened yesterday. We all started typing very fast after this.
By BayAreaSteve
November 22, 2008 5:11 AM | Link to this
Sure wish this DOB guy would stop cluttering the blog.
BBQ, Braves, Cash, Whiskey…not necessarily in that order.
Coach, you’re the man.
UGA - Francouer rant?
By BayAreaSteve
November 22, 2008 5:31 AM | Link to this
I just can’t sleep.
Losing Lou Valez and Coach in the same day…as bad as finding out that Braveheart is an attorney.
Imagine if Anders had honored his pledge to not return…
what would I do?
on the other hand, I wouldn’t have the sixteen words.
scoots, I take it back; you must’ve been at least as good as Scott Podsednik; a poor man’s Marvin Benard, if you will (pre-steroids).
By BayAreaSteve
November 22, 2008 5:31 AM | Link to this
I just can’t sleep.
Losing Lou Valez and Coach in the same day…as bad as finding out that Braveheart is an attorney.
Imagine if Anders had honored his pledge to not return…
what would I do?
on the other hand, I wouldn’t have the sixteen words.
scoots, I take it back; you must’ve been at least as good as Scott Podsednik; a poor man’s Marvin Benard, if you will (pre-steroids).
By richbrave
November 22, 2008 5:42 AM | Link to this
LEW and 10 PAUL:
Sorry I missed your posts. Well, “whatever it takes” is just that in the BURNETT derby. I’m not really supposing the finalist gets A.J. for MORE $$$$ than SABATHIA, but since I didn’t specify that point its easy to read between the lines and assume that’s what I meant. My bad.
Stirred a little dust though. Cool. You got to give DAVE props for being on the job. There aren’t many blogs about the nation where the blog-meister is as involved as he is minute-to-minute. He really does a thorough job in my estimation especially when he disagrees with me. I learn something. In this case, its to elucidate all points well when I put up a “crazy” post.
I feel TWO SP’s necessary just as our GM has stated. No reason to be half-stepping when the goal is a WS ring. BURNETT AND PEAVY will both look great in BRAVES uni’s in ‘09. I also happen to be a FRANK WREN believer. Man,I hated taking RENTS out of the line-up last winter, but we got a great young arm for him and that’s ultimately where the future strength of the team lies. So off we go toward DECEMBER 1. Tally ho the fox.
By ncscoots
November 22, 2008 6:43 AM | Link to this
Yes, corporate cash is high relative to shares and share prices are cheap relative to earnings (generally, of course), volatility has spiked, every technical indicator in the universe is probably screaming “oversold”. A little cash, stamina, and fortitude could go a long way. Average one-year rally after a bear market is 40% or so, so being on the sidelines will be not answering the door. But those are all technical reasons, if you will, for dismissing the gloom-and-doom of the financial Cassandras (and uga-brave has the right of it there). In the end, though, there’s really only one thing you have to keep in mind.
This is America. And nobody comes back from a beat-down like Americans. You take a beating, and you either end up scared or mad. And Americans consistently choose the latter. We’ll get through this, not because of political machinations, Fed wizardry, and bailout packages (though all those could help or hinder), but because “getting though it” is what we do. We always have, and this crisis will resolve no differently.
And, while I don’t think we’ve reached absolute rock bottom yet, I do think we seen the majority of the worst. We may take another kick in the ribs or two, but we’re not far from getting up from the ground.
And we won’t get up scared. That, you CAN take to the bank.
By semiballcoach
November 22, 2008 7:14 AM | Link to this
speaking of duane johnson, i can’t wait to hear obama say “DO YOU SMELL WHAT BARACK IS COOKING?”
By Couch Tater
November 22, 2008 8:15 AM | Link to this
Dang scoots, After Dave’s link and your post, I’m fired up! I think I’ll crank up “Fearless Boogie” by Billy Gibbons and that little old band from Texas. More coffee.
By Mark
November 22, 2008 8:39 AM | Link to this
I bet with economy woes top Braves owners have halted any big spending…..thats why nothing has been done I mean nothing….just a thought!
By P.N.G.
November 22, 2008 8:59 AM | Link to this
Mark: “I bet with economy woes top Braves owners have halted any big spending…..thats why nothing has been done I mean nothing….just a thought!”
No — that’s why yer an iggorant Esso Bee … I mean just an iggorant Esso Bee.
By TommyP
November 22, 2008 9:43 AM | Link to this
Still don’t understand what in the world makes Oliver Perez so bad to some on here. “Cause he’s a Met???? Not sure….but he’s young with a live arm and shouldn’t cost what some of the others will.
Forget this massive Peavy deal with giving away so much young, top-notch, cheap and controllable talent.
We need to take a page from the Phillies in this regard: they built their core with stud young players…Howard, Utley, Rollins…. and filled in with other acquisitions.
Someone complained yesterday about my idea of having solid starters throughout the rotation instead of overpaying for a top-heavy rotation. I believe his argument was you need to have power arms for the playoffs.
Memo to that person: We need to focus on GETTING TO THE POSTSEASON at this point.
By flange1
November 22, 2008 10:02 AM | Link to this
Great blog last night folks!
If you are smart you will listen to uga-brave!
NOW is the time to invest!
uga-brave, we have walked the same roads my man! I too was at UGA, met Jason and the Scorchers on their first night in Athens (remember Nessie?)
Spent MANY nights in the Odessy playing video games, drinking $2.00 pitchers and punching in the rem single (both sides of course) in the juke.
Sitting Still (Hibtone version) was and is my favorite REM tune (notice the difference in the rem Hibtone and the REM of today).
Would then have to stroll over to the Grill for the best burger in town with CHILLED pitchers of beer.
You are right, even with a cold I can smell both places right now…
In he late 80’s and 90’s I ran a fixed income and equity trading desk for a small bank BD. Have gotten out of the investment game but still follow the same regiment of 5 newspapers a day. That is a habit I just can’t break!
And horrors of horrors, WIlliam Wallace is an lawyer!!!
By AJ
November 22, 2008 10:24 AM | Link to this
from mlb.com (“The Yankees haven’t been shy about floating large sums of cash in their search for pitching this offseason, but that doesn’t necessarily mean they’re ready to meet one of the requests of free-agent pitcher A.J. Burnett.
Darek Braunecker, Burnett’s agent, has made it known that he’s seeking a five-year contract for his client. According to the New York Daily News, citing a baseball executive, the Yankees aren’t likely to send an offer Burnett’s way as long as the pitcher insists on inking a five-year pact.”)
By J.L.
November 22, 2008 10:25 AM | Link to this
Facts as I see them.The Braves aren’t going to get one of the front line pitchers everybody is talking about.If they go the rout of picking up a garland,Wolfe etc. They will delay the development of some of our young, and I might add very promising pitchers. We should try and get two outfield bats and a BUC. I hate to disagree with D.O.B. but the Peavy trade never was going to be,wish that I was wrong.Go BRAVES.
By ncgary
November 22, 2008 10:42 AM | Link to this
is it legal in baseball for fans to contribute towards the signing of a free agent , maybe we could get a sign cc website going where braves fan donate a pledge towards signing cc as a free agent, maybe if fans pledge an extra 5 million a year for 4 yers we get er done, lol
By ncgary
November 22, 2008 10:52 AM | Link to this
id hold off on the dow just yet, derivatives come due next friday for citi and it aint gonna be pretty
By Lew
November 22, 2008 10:55 AM | Link to this
ncgary-Sorry Dude, but I already contribute heavily towards the $6 billion MLB makes on an annual basis these days. I’m afraid that the trips to Spring Training, the MLB Extra Innings package, the MLB internet package, the tickets to Braves/Red Sox games (at over $100 apiece), the trips to see the Braves at the HOF game and to Toronto for an entire Braves’ series, the T shirts, the baseballs for autographing and the subscription to Chop Talk will just have to be enough.
As far as I’m concerned, they make enough selling hot dogs and beer to sign whoever the decide to sign. I’ve done my share.
By im4ball
November 22, 2008 11:10 AM | Link to this
DOB;
I totally agree with you about SOA. I am not prone to superlatives but this is really one of the best shows on television and has only gotten better as the season has progressed up to this last week and what happened to Donna.
There is an old adage in baseball that says ” you can hide someone in the field but you can’t hide them at the plate” meaning that hitting is more important that fielding. I think it is time that the Braves do just that; find the best hitters they can…even if the player’s fielding is average (look at Manny). Too long the Braves have stayed with the likes of players like Andrew just because he was a good fielder (and popular)with “potential” at the plate.
And then of course beyond that, the Braves need to get the best starting pitching you can. Fielding is somewhat overrated at the MLB level because everyone can field adequatley but not everyone can hit well.
As time has progressed, we have seen the true Yunel come out…whinney and moody and really not a good hitter. While it is possible that he could get better at the plate, I doubt his attitude ever will and that is why I think the Braves will look to move him. This deal for Peavey to me is (was) the prime way to move someone like Yunel and I do hope that it will in some way be ressurected.
By flange1
November 22, 2008 11:20 AM | Link to this
uga-brave,
You got me thinking about AThens and the old days and I have just spent a couple hours on line seeing where some of the old guys are now.
Did you know that Warner Hodges guitar player of Jason and the Scorchers is playing with Danny Baird from the Satellites in a band called Homemade Sin?
That should be a real interesting combination!
By Yars
November 22, 2008 11:53 AM | Link to this
ncgary……..say what man? Like lew stated…. a lot of us spend a lot of $$$$ already on this here Atlanta team. Getting a petition going to sign a player? Count me out. Heck man, I’m already saving up for driving down to FL to catch a weekend of ST games in March, & then driving down to Atlanta in May to catch a weekend of games at the Ted. Signing players, man leave that up to the owners. Most of us fans, I think I can speak for the bulk of us, are middle class folks that live in moderation. Not trying to diss your post, but I was a bit shocked at reading it. Just had to respond man.
By GermanBravesFan
November 22, 2008 11:53 AM | Link to this
Question for anybody: I recently moved back to Europe and want to continue to watch baseball. Are there any packages available online?
Had I known we’ll have snow this early in the year, I would have stayed in California!!!
By GermanBravesFan
November 22, 2008 11:59 AM | Link to this
Has Anders been back since muttering his “16 words of infamy”?
By Dixie Dawg
November 22, 2008 12:13 PM | Link to this
I think the Braves should continue to explore other alternatives. Yunel may have a litte attitude, but he’s also young and he’ll grow out of it or hopefully, one of the Braves’ vets will mentor to him. Yunel will come back around. I just don’t think we should sacrifice so much just to get Peavy. I’m glad the Braves passed on him. He doesn’t really want to play here, anyway. The Braves still have other options out there. Peavy is not the “end all be all.”
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 22, 2008 12:16 PM | Link to this
N Owl One lonely Owl…..(º•º)…
Haha! There’s the McOwl!
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 22, 2008 12:19 PM | Link to this
Wow…seems I missed some “excitement” around here yesterday! Lou Vales left, Coach left…
Oh well…I had some catching up to do with my drawing. That’s one nice thing about the off-season, I s’pose.
By Braveheart
November 22, 2008 12:25 PM | Link to this
Hey DOB, thanks for the series of articles of our boys over in Arizona. Left me with a good vibe about the future and also left me with a cool vibe about how much they all seem to be bonding with one another and rooting for each other.
By Dixie Dawg
November 22, 2008 12:33 PM | Link to this
At first, I was a major proponent of getting Peavy here. But I have read some reports on how he wants to play for a contender and is wishy washy on wanting to come here.
By Daybed Wagmoe
November 22, 2008 12:35 PM | Link to this
Are there no comments or am I just missing them regarding Hanson’s start today for the Solar Sox in the AFL Championship Game? I know that it’ll probably take a backseat to college football today, but let’s at least focus on this game instead of the economy!
Game starts at 2:35pm. Anyone with MLB.TV wanna keep us updated?
By Bubdylan
November 22, 2008 12:41 PM | Link to this
DOB, thanks for posting The Play. Never even thought of looking that up on youtube. As going-out-of-my-mind Sports Happiness goes, that play and the Sid Bream slide are my big two. (I was curiously mellow about the ‘95 WS.)
Getting ready to watch Hanson pitch. I hope he does well. I wonder if he’ll shelve the change-up for the day, or keep messing with it.
By Braveheart
November 22, 2008 12:46 PM | Link to this
Couch Tater, ugabrave, I haven’t gotten too excited about the SEC championship game yet because we haven’t beaten Auburn yet. This whole season will mean nothing if they don’t win the Iron Bowl. As much as I love what Saban has done so quickly, I’m gonna reserve judgment on him until he actually beats Auburn. He was hired to bring us back to the top but Shula also got fired because he let Auburn beat us 5 times in a row. That obnoxious fear the thumb and one for the thumb thing out of Tuberville and his boys ticks me off to this day.
And that darn Iron Bowl, it don’t matter how good or bad the teams are, one team could be undefeated and the other team could be horrible and it will still end up in a knifefight ‘til the bloody end with no way of knowing who will win. Auburn sucks this year though so Bama should kill ‘em. It could get ugly too. Giving Saban two weeks to get ready for the Iron Bowl is scary in how ugly he can make it for Auburn. I wonder though how much of their attention has been divided between getting ready for Auburn and getting ready for the Florida game the week after. I’m more worried about Auburn than Florida. I think we have the running game to keep Tebow on the sidelines and have the fast, physical defense needed to contain Tebow.
By TexasBrave
November 22, 2008 12:53 PM | Link to this
Dixie Dawg what makes you think we will not be a contender next year? I believe Wren can and will get the pieces we need. Getting Peavy will just increase those chances.
Two glaring weakness that I saw last year should be solved by offseason additions. Then we also need Jeff to step it up which I just can’t see him having two off years in a row. Lastly I am hoping that the addition of two quality starters will eleminate the overuse and misuse of the quility bullpen we already have. I think Ohman will be a key signing though, we need to lock him up ASAP.
By Efrim
November 22, 2008 12:55 PM | Link to this
Michigan hasn’t totaled a positive yard yet and we are in the second quarter. Oh how the mighty have fallen.
If no team ends up getting in on Adam Dunn, think he will be open to a one year deal? Just a thought on my part. I’d rather other options thought. Right handed and a little better defensively.
By Braveheart
November 22, 2008 12:59 PM | Link to this
It’s so nice to see how irrelevant this Wolverines/Buckeyes games is. Got so tired the last few years of hearing all the Big 10 alumni in Bristol, CN go on and on and on about this game played in super slo-mo. Are these boys running in quicksand?
By Steve from OH
November 22, 2008 1:08 PM | Link to this
Braveheart, I assure you it’s not irrelevant to the folks up here.
By jim
November 22, 2008 1:17 PM | Link to this
The Braves are not a solid contender in 2009, with or without Peavy. The Cubs certainly are. But if Peavy were to consider how that situation might be reversed in the years following, he might not be so unwilling to reject a trade to the Braves. The Braves have some top talent ready to reach the major league club in 2010 and 2011 and some key (young) pieces already in place. The Cubs, on the other hand, are a veteran team that hasn’t much talent in the pipeline — particularly if they have to give up key pieces to acquire Peavy — and are likely to decline in the succeeding years of his contract. One cannot make a reasonable prediction of which teams should be contenders for the upcoming year, let alone from one year to the next. Last year the Tigers were a preseason consensus to play in the WS and the Indians, Mariners, and Braves got some attention from “the experts” to be in the post season. Hardly anyone gave the Rays a chance to win their division or for the Marlins to be competitive in theirs.
By Bubdylan
November 22, 2008 1:25 PM | Link to this
Okay, mlbtv subscribers. I purchased the offseason package just for today’s AFL Championship game, but I’m lost as last year’s easter egg. When I click the drop-down that says Audio/Video, and then select Watch/Listen, it tells me no games are scheduled for today. Anybody got any help for me out there? They ARE showing it, right??
By Braveheart
November 22, 2008 1:31 PM | Link to this
Then we also need Jeff to step it up which I just can’t see him having two off years in a row.
I think he’s just naturally a .270 hitter and that his average will swing back and forth around that average. He went from .260 to .290 to .240. The true talent as measured by the last three years is somewhere in that .265 to .270 neighborhood.
It’s kind of like how McCann is a natural .300 hitter. His average went from .330 to .270 to .300. Or like how Andruw went from .260 to .220 to .160. The true talent from the last three seasons sadly shows that Andruw is now more likely only as good as that .220 average he had for us in 2007.
Hopefully, Frenchy will stabilize and suffer less violent swings around that .270 or so average. (kind of like how Andruw, no matter how inconsistent he was before his sudden demise, always seemed to hit .260).
If you look at Frenchy’s SLG as it relates to his AVG, his SLG was 1.5 times higher than his AVG in each of the last two seasons. So when he lost 53 points in average, he lost 80+ points in SLG. He needs to get more power though. He needs to get back to what he was in the first two major league seasons and in the minors and have his SLG be 1.75 times higher than his AVG. If he did that, .270, .320, .475 wouldn’t be great but would be tolerable from a corner outfielder. It would also account for about a 30 to 40 run increase for the team from last season.
I think he just kind of lost himself trying to be what everyone else wanted him to be and should have just stuck to the kind of hitter he naturally was. But even if he did that, he needs to work on his mechanics. I think his bad mechanics hurt him more than his approach or lack of discipline. As ugabrave has been saying for two years, his mechanics are all screwed up. He needs to work on mechanical perfection even more than working on understanding what pitchers are doing to him. Mechanical perfection forgives alot of sins and frees you to finally see your other flaws.
But who knows? Maybe he’s just as bad as he looked last season.
By Braveheart (Cooch and Vales will be missed)
November 22, 2008 1:32 PM | Link to this
Braveheart, I assure you it’s not irrelevant to the folks up here
Steve, just trying to get a rise out of you.
By Nocturnal Owl
November 22, 2008 1:48 PM | Link to this
I think Ohman will be a key signing though, we need to lock him up ASAP
We need the left hander back in the pen but now a new lefty is available….Dodgers let Joe Beimel leave.
Beimel pitched in 216 games over his three seasons with the Dodgers and posted a 3.04 earned-run average. Left-handers hit only .188 against him in 2007, but .278 this year
also…
Junichi Tazawa pitched a complete-game shutout in the quarterfinals of Japan’s corporate league championships in Osaka. The 22-year old, who has drawn interest from the Red Sox [team stats], gave up four hits, no walks and struck out 10
Hope we get Taz, a step for a better future.
By Steve from OH
November 22, 2008 1:49 PM | Link to this
Braveheart, I assure you it’s not irrelevant to the folks up here.
By Upside Down in Phoenix
November 22, 2008 1:50 PM | Link to this
Any of you guys real estate agents?? I’m out here in Arizona and the agents are still talking up a housing market that is in freefall. Has anyone noticed that they removed that Art Cashen guy from CNBC. For about 6 months he started every day with “If we see some stabilization at—fill in the price—-we could see a 1500 point move to the upside”. I’ve also noticed that as the market has tanked and you now have genuine acrimony among the commentators that the skirts are getting higher and blouses are getting lower on the female gurus. I hope you guys are right. I still have properties and municipal bonds but I’ve totally capitulated on my stocks and don’t believe they will return to 2007 values for at least 15 years. That’s okay for me, but all those poor people from 55-70 who bought into the “Buy and Hold” are totally BLANKED. I’m just hoping there is a move on Mark to Market before the insurance industry is decimated. Someone please tell me something will be done on that. My wife is a psychiatrist and she has told me that this is actually a real good time to be OCD because you would have probably been negative way before most people and made a move out.
By 18 Wheels of Love
November 22, 2008 1:53 PM | Link to this
Peavy/Burnett/Sheets/Jair/Hanson
Furcal/KJ/Jones/Dye/McCann/Frenchy/Kotchman/Schafer
Trade Escobar & prospects for Peavy
Sign Burnett for 5 years
Sign Sheets (multi-year, incentive-laden)
Sign Furcal for 3+1 option year
Trade Flowers/Prado/Rohrbaugh for Dye
Yeah, it’s over budget, so what…I’m a fan, not a GM.
By Lew
November 22, 2008 1:59 PM | Link to this
GermanBravesFan-Nah, Anders is off completing his application to Mensa. He’s polishing his credentials so he can stagger us with his true potential.
By Bob Travis
November 22, 2008 2:12 PM | Link to this
No matter how good the deal is for San Diego to trade Peavy to the Braves he will veto the move…HE DOESN’T WANT PLAY HERE!
By TexasBrave
November 22, 2008 2:17 PM | Link to this
Braveheart I would take 270 from Jeff as long as his avg. with RISP is up. I think that is what we missed the most from Jeff. Sure the power was down but we need him to drive in runs when the ducks are on the pond.
By Bama
November 22, 2008 2:40 PM | Link to this
MLB report D-Backs talking to Padres about trade for Greene. Hope they have Better luck than Braves had. That may open the door for Braves….ESCO?
By CameronC.
November 22, 2008 2:44 PM | Link to this
Im watching the game on MLB.TV ill keep everyone updated.
Matt Young, Tyler Flowers, Van Pope and Tommy Hanson are all going for the Braves.
By Salty Dawg
November 22, 2008 2:51 PM | Link to this
The Braves are not a solid contender in 2009, with or without Peavy. The Cubs certainly are. But if Peavy were to consider how that situation might be reversed in the years following, he might not be so unwilling to reject a trade to the Braves.
No doubt. The Cubs have some great players, but if I were in the Peavy’s position, or that of a FA, I would be very concerned about the future ownership of the team. Probably the best case scenario for the Cubs would have been Mark Cuban, which obviously won’t happen. Unless another multi-billionaire type buys the team are they likely to keep spending so heavily, especially considering the economy? The Cubs will most likely always have a larger payroll than the Braves, but the Braves have a much better farm system. Payroll isn’t recession proof, but a solid farm system that produces young, cheap talent is for the most part. Regardless of what anyone says, mlb and other pro sport leagues will at some point start to feel the pinch to some degree. When sponsorship dollars and television rights dollars and consumer entertainment dollars start to decline, so too will payroll flexibility.
By i can't take it anymore
November 22, 2008 2:53 PM | Link to this
What a great Blog this has been…very colorful. DAVID, the anders infamy line is classic. I made it a “sticky note”on my desktop. Also, the q-tip album is bumpin’. me and the wife danced to the whole thing after happy hour last night. its awesome.
By CameronC.
November 22, 2008 2:54 PM | Link to this
Mesa just got done hitting in the top of the first. the other pitcher struck out the first two batters and got the third to ground out to first, hanson is about to start pitching.
0 - 0 bottom 1st
By Salty Dawg
November 22, 2008 2:57 PM | Link to this
Question for anybody: I recently moved back to Europe and want to continue to watch baseball. Are there any packages available online?
I believe you can watch every game online with an mlbtv subscription, though I’ve never tried it so I’m not positive about that.
By Salty Dawg
November 22, 2008 2:58 PM | Link to this
You can also watch DirectTV online if you have a subscription.
By Braveheart (Cooch and Vales will be missed)
November 22, 2008 2:58 PM | Link to this
No matter how good the deal is for San Diego to trade Peavy to the Braves he will veto the move…HE DOESN’T WANT PLAY HERE!
Maybe so but then, damn, you’d think he’d have more on his list than 5 teams….. and you’d think he would have gone to free agency instead of agreeing to a below market value contract ……..
and you’d think that in the first article that Krasovic wrote in San Diego before anyone else knew about him maybe getting traded (and that had on the record quotes from Jake) that Krasovic wouldn’t have noted that he was an Alabama native
……… Why would Krasovic have noted in that first article that he was an Alabama native in an article written to a San Diego audience? What value did that add to the article? What would San Diego readers have cared about his Alabama roots? It didn’t add anything to the story unless you ask yourself why the writer included that factual tidbit. Maybe it was just overly descriptive writing but……..
An intelligent reader who reads alot of these kinds of articles from writers would have guessed that the direct quotes were what Jake was willing to say on the record ………. and that the San Diego writer noting he was an Alabama native was the writer’s way of leaving his readers breadcrumbs about what Jake said off the record about where he wanted to go.
By CameronC.
November 22, 2008 3:03 PM | Link to this
Going to the top of the 2nd, Hanson have up 1 hit to the leadoff guy[AFL batting leader, 20 out of 21 SB], and Flowers threw him out at 2nd. The 2nd guy grounded out to 2nd, and he struck out the 3rd guy.
Top of the 2nd Phoenix 0 0 0 Mesa 0 1 0
By Bubdylan
November 22, 2008 3:03 PM | Link to this
I finally got the game up and going. Tommy Hanson looks so relaxed… and huge… and in control. Flowers looked good on the throw down to second to get Young. Just the 2nd time in 21 (I think) Young has been caught stealing.
By Salty Dawg
November 22, 2008 3:07 PM | Link to this
As time has progressed, we have seen the true Yunel come out…whinney and moody and really not a good hitter. While it is possible that he could get better at the plate, I doubt his attitude ever will and that is why I think the Braves will look to move him. This deal for Peavey to me is (was) the prime way to move someone like Yunel and I do hope that it will in some way be ressurected.
Really? I think he has made tremendous improvement over just a couple years ago in the minors. Granted he lets his emotions get the best of him sometimes, but I think that is just because he plays with a lot of intensity. I personally don’t mind seeing a player get fired up once in a while. I’d rather see that than a guy like Tex who seems indifferent (I know he isn’t, just comes off that way) because he shows no emotion on the field. And the guy is a career (if you can call it that yet) .300 hitter with some pop. How is that not a very good hitter? I think he’d be a great #2 hitter if we can secure a solid leadoff guy to put in front of him. Why do you think so many teams want him? Just my opinion anyway.
By Braveheart (Cooch and Vales will be missed)
November 22, 2008 3:08 PM | Link to this
No doubt. The Cubs have some great players, but if I were in the Peavy’s position, or that of a FA, I would be very concerned about the future ownership of the team.
Look, I b!tch more than anyone on here about the faceless corporate cheapskate thing. You know that whole To Hell With AOL, To Be Free From Liberty thing that I love ranting about.
But to be fair to LM, since they took over, they increased the salary budget by 15% from 80 to 92 million. This season, they seem to be saying the salary budget will be between 100 to 110 million. That would be a 8 to 20% increase in the budget from last season.
If they do what they say they are gonna do, we’d be looking at a 20 to 40% increase in the budget by the new owners since they bought the team two years ago It’s hard to b!tch when anyone increases the budget by 25 to 40% in 2 years. I hate to lose my little To Hell With AOL, To Be Free From Liberty thing but ya gotta be fair
By chris
November 22, 2008 3:08 PM | Link to this
* Scottbravesfan, *Braveheart
I made suggestions to the bloggers here for the Braves to go after Brandon Phillips, who is black. He would provide so much needed pop as well as a gold glove defender. We know he is black, he is from NC. He is only one player but that would increase the Black casual fan population. My question is, who is to say that the lack of black players on the Braves, is a reason(not a big reason) CC hasn’t considered the Braves as a potential place to play?
By laid off in real estate
November 22, 2008 3:09 PM | Link to this
* Upside down in Phoenix*
Don’t trust the agents. The agents, combined with the banks, combined with the federal gov’t, combined with ignorant consumers, got us into this mess. It is their job to talk up the market, because it’s how they make money.
Research “Case-Schiller” reports. Every year or, so, they report in depth on each major housing market, and project growth/decline over the next 1 - 5 years for each major market.
(I did a brief search and could not find the projections, but I know CNNMoney runs them when they come out. All I could find were the historical results).
Anyway, a lot of people don’t like these reports because they are in major markets; however, with you being in Phoenix, and me being in Atlanta, I find the reports useful.
I was formerly in real estate consulting, but was down-sized from that recently. The head of our group, who lives in Phoenix, sat across from me back last winter and said that he was “hearing” that we were at bottom, or bottom was very near. This is a guy who should have been very much in the know.
Since that time, Bear Stearns (and other I-banks) have tumbled, AIG has become bankrupt, etc. You know the story.
It’s hard to identify bottom. People think they can see it, but the reality is this: About 2x a week, I hear from, or about a friend who has been laid off. Real estate, architecture, marketing, banking, you name it.
The trickle down effect of that is still far from being felt. I’m not in dire straits, because my spouse is employed. Don’t have to make drastic changes immediately; however, if I’m still sitting unemployed when my lease expires, then I’ll definitely be looking for a cheaper apartment. I’ve already cut my spending and charitable contributions significantly. Over the past 3 months, I’ve seen dramatic declines in the prices of brand new condos in my area. Even developers who traditionally don’t like to give a price break, have made 10-20% cuts off the asking price in the promotional materials.
Even people with jobs lack the confidence to buy a house, because they don’t know if they’ll be employed next week. Large metro areas, (such as Phx and Atl) have new developments, which are almost completely empty.
Then, there is the financing issue. The banks own so many foreclosed homes, they aren’t as eager to sling financing around. They’ve been burned, and are hesitant to keep lending.
Now, what the realtors are likely saying is that it is a great time to buy a home, because A) Prices are down off of their 2006 highs, and B) interest rates are low.
However, because individuals lack confidence in their current financial future, they don’t want to be tied to a mortgage. Which is smart. Sadly, they should’ve felt this way from 2002 - 2005, but they got caught up in the ridiculous craze and made poor decisions.
This is all going to take time to work out because of the dramatic excess supply that exists. Keep in mind that the media is typically behind the curve on these things. They report “facts” after they receive them, and are typically not the best at predicting the future.
Go back to September 15th, when we first heard about AIG. The next day, people were mocking the discussion of the potential of us entering the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression. They pointed to employment numbers still being high, and noted by the end of that week, that most of Monday’s losses had been recovered.
But, as the days/weeks went by, reality set in. Financing dried up. Companies and individuals quit investing. Work flow dried up. Lay-offs occurred.
At the end of the day, if you have cash, then by all means, invest your money. Buy low and sell high. Take advantage of the panic and position yourself for for the growth that will almost inevitably return.
However, people need to make sure they protect their milk money, and not be left holding an empty bag.
By CameronC.
November 22, 2008 3:12 PM | Link to this
Going to the bottom of the 2nd. Larish had an infield single. Tyler Flowers grounded into a double play. Scott Cousins walked. Casper Wells tripled in Cousins. Van Pope popped up.
Bottom 2nd Phoenix 0 1 0 Mesa 1 2 0
Hanson 1IP 1H 1K
By Salty Dawg
November 22, 2008 3:15 PM | Link to this
is it legal in baseball for fans to contribute towards the signing of a free agent , maybe we could get a sign cc website going where braves fan donate a pledge towards signing cc as a free agent, maybe if fans pledge an extra 5 million a year for 4 yers we get er done, lol
What? You want to do what? Well, you and anyone else who thinks that is a good idea can go right ahead. I’ve got better things to do with my money. Besides, I give the Braves plenty of money when I go to games and buy merchandise. Last I checked it cost well over $200 for a family of 4 to go to a game (assuming decent seats and food/beverage/parking). I do that around 10 times a year, so forgive me if I don’t feel the same need to pony up additional cash. Not to mention, if the Braves did that, what would stop the Yankees/Redsox/etc. from doing the same? With a much larger fan base they would still blow us away.
By CameronC.
November 22, 2008 3:19 PM | Link to this
Tommy Hanson struck out the first 2 batters, and the 3rd batter flied out to center field.
Top 3rd Mesa 1 2 0 Phoenix 0 1 1
Hanson - 2IP, 1H, 3K
By Salty Dawg
November 22, 2008 3:21 PM | Link to this
NOW is the time to invest! Flange
Flange, I have to say I think you are right. Stocks are seriously undervalued right now and there are many bargains to be had for the investor who does his homework. It may take several months to see real, sustainable gains in the market, but I don’t think it will get much worse than it is right now. Believe it or not, real estate is a good investment right now, in the right markets. Not much chance of making money on quick flips, but if you are investing for the long term, there is a lot of value in property right now.
When in doubt, follow Warren Buffett.
By Random
November 22, 2008 3:23 PM | Link to this
Anyone can also go HERE for the FREE MLB Gameday and Live Box Score for the AFL Championship game.
By DaveinZona
November 22, 2008 3:24 PM | Link to this
Bubdylan at 3:03. How did you get the game up and running? I’m a 2008 season subscriber and haven’t been able to pick it up. Could you share your secret with me?
By CameronC.
November 22, 2008 3:25 PM | Link to this
Will Rhymes flied to center field leading off for Mesa in the top of the 3rd. Matt Young[Braves] got a base hit. And Jason Donald grounded into the double play.
Bottom 3rd. Mesa 1 3 0 Phoenix 0 1 1
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 22, 2008 3:29 PM | Link to this
Time for a new ChopTalk.
By Upside Down in Phoenix
November 22, 2008 3:33 PM | Link to this
Laid off in Real Estate, Sorry for what is going on with you. When I realize my wife and I are better off than 90 percent of the people in this country it stops my complaining. I do get a kick on how people on a Blog think they have answers about a soon to be upturn when the greatest minds in this country have not a clue even yet as to how this plays out. I may be wrong but I’m pretty sure I read the value of the Dow after 1933 took until 1952 to get back to that number. They keep saying “It will come back” and that is probably true. However, that will sadly not be within the lifetimes of so many people who are now out of luck and time. They discuss bailouts, just wait till this silly mark to market and all these arcane uptick rules bring about a possible collapse of Prudential, Metropolitan, and Hartford. The government will have to step in there or those life insurance policies might only be worth a third of their value, annuities and pensions obliterated and then will still have the guy on CNBC discussing buying opportunities. I actually was taken out to dinner by a well heeled guy who was extremely grateful I talked him out of buying Citi at 15 dollars when it was being touted as under valued. NOBODY knows what under valued is in these times and if they say they do, tell them to join Art Cashen wandering around the CNBC studios demonstrating signs of early onset dementia.
By CameronC.
November 22, 2008 3:35 PM | Link to this
Hanson pitching in the bottom of the 3rd. The lead off hitter is on with a big hop infield hit, 0 outs. The 2nd batter is on at first after ground to third to force the guy out at 2nd, 1 out. The 3rd batter strikes out, 2 out. The 4th batter walks, 2 out 2 on. The 5th batter strikes out, 3 outs.
Top 4th Mesa 1 3 0 Phoenix 0 2 1
Hanson 3IP, 2H, 5K
By Georgia72
November 22, 2008 3:40 PM | Link to this
Follow Warren Buffet??? Check out what is going on with Warren once the rules changed and “It Will Only Go Up” quit being seen as doctrine.An entire generation of people has had it demonstrated to them that you don’t buy homes to flip, you don’t spend money you don’t have, you don’t buy and hold, you tune out anyone telling you that ANY asset is a sure thing in the long run. People will now buy a home to live in. If they can they will buy a 2nd home to either vacation in or rent out with a possibility of moving there in later years.
By Braveheart (Cooch and Vales will be missed)
November 22, 2008 3:48 PM | Link to this
Eric Young, Jr is in that game? How old am I getting? Looks like a good on base/stolen bases guy from his minor league stats. Kinda looks like his dad’s statistical clone.
By CameronC.
November 22, 2008 3:49 PM | Link to this
Logan Morrison gets a base hit leading off in the top of the 4th, 0 outs. Jeff Larish hits a 2-run homerun to make it a 3-0 game, 0 outs. Tyler Flowers flies out to deep center, 1 out. Scott Cousins singles, 1 out. Casper Wells singles, 1 out. Van Pope strikes out, 2 outs. Will Rhymes flies out to center, 3 outs.
Bottom 4th Mesa 3 5 0 Phoenix 0 2 1
By CameronC.
November 22, 2008 3:59 PM | Link to this
Hanson pitching in the bottom of the 4th. The 1st batter strikes outm 1 out. The 2nd batter strikes out, but the batter reached on the ball getting away, 1 out. The 3rd batter flies out to short, 2 outs. The 4th batter flies to right field.
Top 5th Mesa 3 5 0 Phoenix 0 2 1
Tommy Hanson 4IP, 2H, 1BB, 0R, 7K.
By 18 Wheels of Love
November 22, 2008 4:00 PM | Link to this
CF is 430 feet! Wonder how far Flowers’ out went?
Hanson is dealing. Only throws strikes and even his misses are in the zone.
By David O'Brien
November 22, 2008 4:03 PM | Link to this
Braveheart: Glad you and others dig reading about the prospects out in the Fall League. It’s a cool assignment going out there, because it’s such a laid-back atmosphere it makes spring training seem restrictive and tense by comparison (and those who’ve been to spring training know it’s far from tense).
The young kids out there are so easy to deal with, so willing and usually eager to be interviewed….
Can’t Take it Anymore: You’re right, been great discourse on here the past few days. Glad we can be of some service until a move or two is made….
Had shrimp and grits this morning at the always-excellent Ria’s Bluebird restaurant in Grant Park, and one of the guitarists from The Selmanaires was working behind the counter (we ate sitting at stools at the counter, place was busy).
Told him his band gets plugs here on the blog, and he said he’d seen one or someone had pointed it out to him. Real cool guy, said they’ve added a second percussionist and are now a five-piece band, he’s excited about stuff they’re doing….
Any indie-music people out there heard the new Deerhunter album yet? I hear it’s outstanding, but went to Don’s Ella Guru and to Wuxtry and neither had it, something about shipments didn’t arrive or whatever.
I did, however, find a pristine first-pressing copy of the Duane Allman two-album Anthology on vinyl, and a very hard-to-find vinyl first-pressing of Tom Waits’ Small Change. So it was a good day.
By Braveheart (Cooch and Vales will be missed)
November 22, 2008 4:04 PM | Link to this
Is that Steven Tolleson in that game Wayne Tolleson’s son? I think Wayne Tolleson was the Yankee SS who wore #2 before Jeter.
If Hanson doesn’t go more formal than Tommy, do we start calling him Tommy Gun? Or is that too cheesy in a Tommy Morrison in Rocky V kind of way? Just looked up some other nicknames for a tommy gun, how does The Trench Broom work for Hanson? As I recall, paladin fought in World War I. Maybe he could tell us what their name for a tommy gun was back in those days.
By AdirondackDave
November 22, 2008 4:04 PM | Link to this
Another day at the offfice for Tommy Hanson. I imagine he’s good for one more inning, now at 65 pitches. Can hardly wait to see him pitch in spring training against major leaguers.
By CameronC.
November 22, 2008 4:10 PM | Link to this
Matt Young strikes out leading off for Mesa, 1 Out. Jason Donald singles up the middle, 1 Out. Logan Morrison walks, 2 On 1 Out. Jeff Larish grounds into the force out at 2nd, 2 Outs Runners at 1st and 3rd. Pitching Chance with Tyler Flowers Coming Up.
Bottom 5th Mesa 3 8 0 Pheonix 0 2 1
By Steve from OH
November 22, 2008 4:12 PM | Link to this
DOB, did Wren give you any comments/a scouting report on Medlen?
More econ talk? Oh, well, I’m in a good mood right now (42-7, baby!) so I’ll let it slide :). I dunno, though, if I ever get my hands on some real money I just might give uga-brave a call….
Go Spartans
By flange1
November 22, 2008 4:13 PM | Link to this
DOB,
Missed you today at Ella Guru! I bought an import Westerberg on eBay from Don and hos to pick it up. Of course I had to buy another 8 CD’s….
Braveheart, I think Tommy gun works. I see it as the Clash song as opposed to the Rocky movie.
Are you sure you miss Vales and Cooch?
By CameronC.
November 22, 2008 4:13 PM | Link to this
Tyler Flowers up with runners at 1st and 3rd and 2 outs. Flowers pops up to 2nd, 3 outs.
Bottom 5th Mesa 3 8 0 Pheonix 0 2 1
By Tomas
November 22, 2008 4:14 PM | Link to this
Tommy Hanson has to be the number 1 prospect next year after this amazing dominance.
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 22, 2008 4:15 PM | Link to this
Kinda funny that some guy for the Coyotes got on base via strikeout.
See, even when Hanson gets guys on base, he strikes them out!
By CameronC.
November 22, 2008 4:20 PM | Link to this
Tommy Hanson is pitching in the top of the 4th. The 1st batter grounds to 3rd base, 1 Out. The 2nd batter triples, 1 Out. The 3rd batter grounds to 2nd base, 2 outs 1 runs scores. The 4th batter strikes out, 3 outs.
Top 6th Mesa 3 8 0 Pheonix 1 3 1
Tommy Hanson - 5IP 1R 3H 1BB 8K
By Nocturnal Owl
November 22, 2008 4:29 PM | Link to this
Watching live gameday again is a refreshing change. Can’t wait for MLB action.
They manufactured a run against hanson.
Eight K’s in 5inn
Yes, AdirondackDave- Another day at the office for Tommy Hanson. This time against a good young team.
By CameronC.
November 22, 2008 4:29 PM | Link to this
In the top of the 5th. Scott Cousins Flies out to center field, 1 Out. Casper Wells pops up to the 1st baseman, 2 outs. Van Pope doubles to left field, 2 outs. Will Rhymes singles, Pope scores on the play, 2 outs. Matt Young lines out to the 3rd baseman, 3 outs.
Bottom 5th Mesa 4 10 0 Phoenix 1 3 1
By Epinephrine
November 22, 2008 4:30 PM | Link to this
Hanson doubled over earlier in the game when the ump wouldn’t give him a pretty obvious called third strike-kind of showed him up.
I think the ump has been squeezing Hanson in retribution, because there have been a few calls that you have to imagine would otherwise have been Ks. And despite all that, still dominant.
Kid is impressive, and you have to like his fire. Kind of reminds me when Jurrjens did that earlier this year-I think against the Mets-and the ump squeezed him. So Hanson probably ought not to do that, but it’s pretty cool to see him hired up.
By CameronC.
November 22, 2008 4:32 PM | Link to this
Tommy Hanson is out after 5 inning. His line is.
Tommy Hanson - 5 IP, 3 H, 1ER, 1BB, 8K.
Mesa 4 10 0 Phoenix 1 3 1
By CameronC.
November 22, 2008 4:39 PM | Link to this
The reliever for Mesa has given up a run to make it 4-2 Mesa. Tyler Flowers has made an error and gave up a pass ball in the inning. Now another run in for Phoenix, 4-3. Tying run on 3rd. 1 out.
By Bubdylan
November 22, 2008 4:40 PM | Link to this
DaveinZona, sorry man, I just pulled the blog back up. My caveman computer couldn’t handle the broadcast and the blog together.
After surfing that website for two hours, I finally just clicked on the photo of Tommy Hanson on the front page article and the game came up. Unbelievable. Those guys need some serious work on that site.
All the clickables that say something like watch the game live lead you to the purchasing area. There is no obvious place for current subscribers to click and watch the game. The help forum had a bunch of folks in the same boat, begging for a way to watch the game, having purchased (like me) the service just for this one game.
Anyway, Tommy’s done for the day and I’m sure this info will do you little good. Maybe they’ll archive the game in a place that will make better since.
By CameronC.
November 22, 2008 4:42 PM | Link to this
The reliever for Mesa has given up 4 runs in the inning.
5-4 Pheonix.
Hanson cannot get the win.
By Braveheart (Cooch and Vales will be missed)
November 22, 2008 4:43 PM | Link to this
Tommy gun works. I see it as the Clash song as opposed to the Rocky movie.
Damn, good call Flange. Imagine Tommy “Gun” Hanson coming in with this song on:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlGHBfueOdc
By 18 Wheels of Love
November 22, 2008 4:44 PM | Link to this
Oh, the Q-Tip is album is excellent. Another winning pick by DOB. Almost reminds one of some old Tribe - of course its not the same without Phife and Jarobi. I’m a big fan of Electric Relaxation.
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 22, 2008 4:48 PM | Link to this
What the VORP?? I leave for a few minutes, come back, and it’s 6-4??
An error and two passed balls? I’ll say it again: What the VORP??
By Braveheart (Cooch and Vales will be missed)
November 22, 2008 4:49 PM | Link to this
Are you sure you miss Vales and Cooch?
Well, I was just being a wisea@@ to tweak Cooch but, yeah, I think the blog would miss them or at least I would. They both bring something unique and add more color to the blog. They annoy at times but don’t we all? I know I do.
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 22, 2008 4:52 PM | Link to this
OK…whoa. For a minute I thought that was 2 PB in one inning…I guess they just changed Hanson’s WP to a PB.
By Braveheart (Cooch and Vales will be missed)
November 22, 2008 4:55 PM | Link to this
Almost reminds one of some old Tribe - of course its not the same without Phife and Jarobi
Yeah, it’s real good but it’s never the same when the abstract poetic is without the funky diabetic.
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 22, 2008 4:55 PM | Link to this
C’mon, dude…Homer for redemption!
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 22, 2008 4:57 PM | Link to this
……or not.
Later!
By Bubdylan
November 22, 2008 5:00 PM | Link to this
The reliever for Mesa has given up 4 runs in the inning.
5-4 Pheonix.
Hanson cannot get the win. -Cameron
He’s now officially prepared to hand the ball off to Boyer.
By flange1
November 22, 2008 5:05 PM | Link to this
Braveheart,
Thanks for the video link! That is one of my favorite Clash sings and that vid is great.
While Cooch can be a pain, he does have some quality input from time to time. If nothing else he gives a different perspective and makes us think a bit.
If he would stop being such a little b@tch some times.
(Sorry McFann!)
And if Vales would stop his esoteric economic stuff, he does have an interesting counter culture thing going.
How bad is Bama going to beat Auburn?
I think they are going to trounch the War Chickens and Tubberville will be looking for work. Clemson here he comes….
By Bubdylan
November 22, 2008 5:18 PM | Link to this
As of right now, the ERA’s on the day for the 5 pitchers Mesa has used are:
1.80, 13.50, 27.00, 54.00, and 27.00.
Can you find Tommy Hanson in that line?
By Steve from OH
November 22, 2008 5:19 PM | Link to this
flange, that’s exactly the way I see it too.
Looks like Mesa’s falling apart. These other guys are making Tommy Hanson look like Walter Johnson. Where’s Marek and Medlen, I wonder?
By Efrim
November 22, 2008 5:20 PM | Link to this
Good to see Tommy Hanson finish off an incredible fall league season with another great performance. Braves future is bright with pitchers like him in the system.
By DaveinZona
November 22, 2008 5:23 PM | Link to this
Bubdylan Thanks for your help;I was finally able to get the game.However, as you stated, Tommy was out of the game.
By Braveheart (Cooch and Vales will be missed)
November 22, 2008 5:25 PM | Link to this
The reliever for Mesa has given up 4 runs in the inning. 5-4 Pheonix. Hanson cannot get the win. He’s now officially prepared to hand the ball off to Boyer.
Dylan, I can’t quit laughing after reading that classic right there. Seriously, it made me laugh so hard my face is hurting.
By Braveheart
November 22, 2008 5:29 PM | Link to this
How bad is Bama going to beat Auburn?
34-13. Tuberville was nothing before or after Borges and Muschamp.
By Salty Dawg
November 22, 2008 5:32 PM | Link to this
Follow Warren Buffet??? Check out what is going on with Warren once the rules changed and “It Will Only Go Up” quit being seen as doctrine.
I guess I don’t quite see your point. Warren Buffett (Blackstone) is the poster child for smart investing, minimizing risk, due diligence, etc. Any yes, I think most logical and informed investors do believe that the market will rebound considerably at some point in the next year to year and a half. It is basic economics. Even after the Great Depression the economy rebounded and stocks have obviously gone up after ever recession. Unless, that is, you believe that the current economic crisis is the apocalypse.
An entire generation of people has had it demonstrated to them that you don’t buy homes to flip, you don’t spend money you don’t have, you don’t buy and hold, you tune out anyone telling you that ANY asset is a sure thing in the long run. People will now buy a home to live in. If they can they will buy a 2nd home to either vacation in or rent out with a possibility of moving there in later years.
Quite the opposite. Many, many people made a lot of money flipping houses when the market supported it. Now it doesn’t. In the future it likely will again. As long as the population continues to rise, real estate will eventually be in demand. Nothing in this world is a “sure thing” but there is such a thing as buying low and selling high. Most people who purchase a home or property will, in fact, do so for personal use. However, many people with the ability to do so will get filthy rich by taking advantage of the current real estate situation. Let me ask you this, where do people live when their home is foreclosed? Either the street or they RENT. Guess who makes money. The guy who owns the house they rent.
By flange1
November 22, 2008 5:34 PM | Link to this
Steve from OH,
I missed your row with Coach until last nite, I was traveling. Still don’t see why he got so upset.
I happen to agree with you on the Bobby Cox thing.
The playoffs are so much luck and timing, in my mind getting there is the most important thing.
It is easy to look in the rear view mirror and say “should have done this or that.’
I don’t always like Bobby’s choices, especially with leaving pitchers in and lefty righty match ups, but I still think he is one of the greatest managers of my lifetime….
By flange1
November 22, 2008 5:39 PM | Link to this
DOB,
Don talked me into buying some Lucinda Williams. I know I know, I should have her stuff already, just hadn’t heard anything that I liked much. HE said to buy Car Wheels on a Gravel Road.
I am listening now and totally blown away.
I don’t usually like female vocalists, but she is great. The guitars are great and just jump out out you.
Thanks to you and Don for another favor….
By David O'Brien
November 22, 2008 5:39 PM | Link to this
Steve from OH: I thought I had Wren’s comments about Medline in story I wrote about him and Marek. Maybe it didn’t make it in paper. Anyway, here they are, in full:
“Probably one of the most polished pitchers we have,” Wren said of Medline. “He has three pitchers that all can be above aveage, and above-average command. And has real good idea what he wants to do on the mound, and he’s a great athlete. With that combination it’s pretty easy to compete.”
When I asked whether they see him as a starter or reliever, Wren said: “Don’t kow that it matters. We pout him in the rotation this year [in Double-A] because in the bullpen it was difficult for him to get to use all his pitches, and all his pitches are quality enough that they should be used.
“We still have to continue to evaluate and see” whether he belongs in the rotation or ‘pen.
By Heath
November 22, 2008 5:43 PM | Link to this
Question: Even if San Diego has all but traded Peavy, what is to stop them from holding on to him until mid-season when someone might be willing to give even more for his services for a championship run? Sure, ownership wants to reduce payroll, but there are other trade pieces they can use to get some prospects and reduce payroll…Giles for example. That said, do you think that the Braves will have to break tradition of sorts by over-spending for a FA pitcher? Sure, they could end up with a bad investment—happends to lots of teams. However, by getting someone through free agency, you atleast get to keep your prospects in case they turn out to be good Major-Leage talent. Think Detroit would like a do-over for the Renteria trade?
By flange1
November 22, 2008 5:45 PM | Link to this
Braveheart, my guess on Bama Auburn 49-7….
Tubberville gone within the next 48 hours.
By David O'Brien
November 22, 2008 5:46 PM | Link to this
Ah, yes, Tommy Gun by the mighty Clash….
” Tommy gun – you ain’t happy ‘less you got one
Tommy gun – ain’t gonna shoot the place up just for fun*
Maybe he wants to die for his country
Maybe he wants to kill for his country
Whatever he wants, he’s gonna get it
Got the Fabulous Thunderbirds’ 1979 debut album playing right now on the turntable. One of the few white-boy blues albums that rings true and kicks arse.
Alright, last call for bets on tonight’s game. Gentlemen’s wager, of course. I’ve got A&M, though that OU home record is making me think twice. Something like 54-2 under Stoops….
By David O'Brien
November 22, 2008 5:48 PM | Link to this
Flange1, I’m quite surprised you didn’t have any ‘Lu, but Don sure steered you to the right one to start with — Car Wheels is classic. Every song on it is just about perfect.
By Random
November 22, 2008 5:49 PM | Link to this
Big ouch for Flowers, huh?
) for 4, 4 LOB, 2 passed balls and a fielding error.
“Back to bed, back to reality!”
By Random
November 22, 2008 5:51 PM | Link to this
I think that should be 0 for 4 for Flowers, 4 LOB, 2 PBs, 1 E.
Hanson shone, though — 5 IP, 8 Ks, 1BB, 3 hits, 1 ER.
By flange1
November 22, 2008 5:55 PM | Link to this
DOB,
That T birds record is great.
Back when Jimmy Vaughn actually tried to play guitar!
Kim Wilson is a bad man on the harp….
By flange1
November 22, 2008 6:00 PM | Link to this
DOB,
Strange question for you, Did you know Carl Hiaasen from your time in Miami?
Just wondering if was as off the wall in person as he comes across in his books…
I have been traveling and I always read like a maniac on planes. I enjoy Hiaasen and just finished a couple of his I had not read yet..
By d-rock
November 22, 2008 6:44 PM | Link to this
DOB -
The new deerhunter is very good. Reminds me a bit of panda bear with the stretched bare sound like the beach boys. They’ve got a really cool spacey feel. Lots of guitar and reverb. Great stuff, there’s 3 songs on there I can’t get out of my head. Definitely one of my top 10 this year.
By brent a.
November 22, 2008 6:50 PM | Link to this
I still can’t believe that there are families of four that will regularly spend over $200 to go to a Braves game.
More than simply “decent” seats can be had for $8 to $16.
You should never, ever pay more than $10 to park.
Lastly, eating at the ball park is a waste of money.
I can understand the “one time” experience, but for folks that go several times a year, one would hope that they would have the “cheap routine” down by now.
If people want to spend that money, then that is their business; however, I am convinced that when people talk about spending $200 for an evening at the ball park, it scares a lot of people away, who don’t realize that it does not need to cost nearly that much.
By nolie
November 22, 2008 6:57 PM | Link to this
Just wondering if Hiaasen was as off the wall in person as he comes across in his booksflange
I love that guy’s fiction, especially his first 5 or so.
By Steve from OH
November 22, 2008 7:01 PM | Link to this
DOB, thanks very much for the quotes on Medlin. Good stuff. Sorry to pry, but did you get anything on Heath or Van Pope?
Flange, looking back, my last post before the whole thing went down was too strong, even for my own tastes. I try to keep it civil at all times, and I was probably a bit outta line, but hey, what’s done is done, and that’s all I wanna say on the subject.
Agreed on Cox.
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
November 22, 2008 7:02 PM | Link to this
DOB, with all of the published reports saying that whoever offers Burnett 5 years (within the same price range obviously) will get him, do you think the Braves would do that? Say, if he was going to sign with someone else but would sign with the Braves if a fifth year was added…I am not advocating that they do it, but just wonder if they would do something like that with such a need for starting pitching. What do you think?
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
November 22, 2008 7:11 PM | Link to this
This may have been posted before…it was from a Stark article on Thursday:
“Braves pitcher Tommy Hanson (5-0, 0.67 ERA, 49 strikeouts, 28 2/3 innings pitched): “If he doesn’t make their club next spring, he’ll be their first call-up. He’s really close. He’s got good command of three pitches. He’s a very good athlete for a kid who’s 6-[foot]-6. He’s got a good feel for pitching. I can see why they wouldn’t put him in that [Jake] Peavy deal. I hear other scouts say he’s a No. 3 starter. Hell, he’s better than that.”
I think Hanson continues to convince people, including scouts, that he is well above a #3 starter!!
By Lew
November 22, 2008 7:21 PM | Link to this
Flange-Saw Jimmy Vaughan about a year ago-he opened for Dylan. VERY disappointing.
Sure am glad that everyone is now seeing what Efrim and I have been yelling for a couple years now-Tommy Hanson is a bona fide stud in the making and will be very good.
By flange1
November 22, 2008 7:31 PM | Link to this
Steve from OH,
Coach comes at people so hard, he deserves what he gets. I didn’t think you were out of line at all.
By the way, if you are not a Jeff Beck fan, you should listen. Just goy a new copy of Blow by Blow (mine was scratched) AMAZING!!!
Lew,
It is sad about Jimmy V. All is does now is play the same note 10 times in a row and act like it is a solo.
After his brother died, he just lost interest in playing.
Everything I have seen of him since then was just plain bad.
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 22, 2008 7:42 PM | Link to this
Flange 1 but I still think he is one of the greatest managers of my lifetime…
Greatest Braves manager of my lifetime!
; > (Also the only Braves manager of my lifetime!)
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 22, 2008 7:43 PM | Link to this
Whoa…tough one for your—our friend Flowers. Didn’t see that comin’, that’s for sure.
I must say, I’m geeked up about Hanson! Can’t wait till he’s ready!
Don’t rush him if you don’t have to, Braves!
By David O'Brien
November 22, 2008 8:18 PM | Link to this
JasoninFL, I think it’s certainly possible they’d do that with A.J.
By David O'Brien
November 22, 2008 8:22 PM | Link to this
Flange1, Hiassen is absolutely brilliant. Utmost respect for him as a writer, not many others who can move from fiction writing (novels) to newspaper column work to non-fiction including his terrific environmental writing for mags like Sports Illustrated. He’s a South Florida treasure.
And he’s funny as hell, from everyone I know who knows him (I don’t personally know him, but knew a lot of folks at the Miami Herald who did). He was a very close friend of Warren Zevon, and played a song or two with him whenever Zevon played in South Florida (I saw him a couple times in W. Palm Beach).
By Efrim
November 22, 2008 8:23 PM | Link to this
Lew
Sure am glad that everyone is now seeing what Efrim and I have been yelling for a couple years now-Tommy Hanson is a bona fide stud in the making and will be very good.
Hell yeah. 10.42 K per 9 innings. Projectable 6’6” frame. Guy is the real deal and I am pretty happy we aren’t trading him. Should be exciting to see him in the Braves rotation.
By Steve from OH
November 22, 2008 8:25 PM | Link to this
Flange, I love Jeff Beck. Don’t own Blow by Blow, but maybe I’ll make it my next album purchase, if I ever get the cash. If you’re a GNR fan, you should check out the youtube video of Beck rehearsing “Locomotive” with them while they were on tour. Good stuff.
By Efrim
November 22, 2008 8:31 PM | Link to this
I must say, Oklahoma’s fight song isn’t too bad. Not as good as Michigan’s(sorry Steve from OH, good win today), but I’d say it’s underrated. Nothing beats “The Victors” though. Other favorites, “Notre Dame Victory March” and “Fight On”(USC).
By flange1
November 22, 2008 8:35 PM | Link to this
Steve from Ohio,
Blow by Blow and Wired are truly amazing records. I love the JB Group and most all of his other stuff, I am not a real jazzer, but those 2 albums are spectacular.
Not that big a GNR fan without Slash and Izzy, but I will take a look.
By flange1
November 22, 2008 8:37 PM | Link to this
Efrim,
If I am not mistaken, You and Lew were talking about Hanson 2+ years agao on this blog. It was your knowledge of the Braves minor league system that made your posts a must read for me.
By the way they still are!
By Salamander
November 22, 2008 8:47 PM | Link to this
Any indie-music people out there heard the new Deerhunter album yet? I hear it’s outstanding, but went to Don’s Ella Guru and to Wuxtry and neither had it, something about shipments didn’t arrive or whatever. -DOB
Its a great album man. Better than Cryptograms. Its a laid back album - not really a rockin moment until the end of the 5th track. The 8th track “Nothing Ever Happened” is by far my favorite. The album sounds a bit like the Velvet Underground to me (especially the second track).
By Efrim
November 22, 2008 8:56 PM | Link to this
Flange1
Thanks dude. I enjoy your posts as well. Let’s hope Jeff Locke and Cole Rohrbough continue to progress in the Braves system as well, and maybe at some point, they can join Hanson up with the big club.
By Lew
November 22, 2008 9:02 PM | Link to this
StevefromOh-I was real lucky and saw Stevie Ray a few weeks before he was killed-great, great show. The person sharing the bill with him? Jeff Beck-absolutely the best guitarist I have ever seen. I know I’ve used this description of him before, but the Dude didn’t just make the guitar cry and sing, he gave it multiple orgasms. Never saw anyone make some of the sounds he got out of that Strat. I sat there with my jaw scraping the floor in amazement-and I’ve seen Duane Allman twice, Page twice, Clapton twice, West, Blackmore and most of the rest of the best.
Anyone having the opportunity to see Jeff Beck that passes it up is And Idiot of the first degree. It should be on the Bucket List of anyone who appreciates good rock music.
Flange-Yeah we were unto something with Tommy. Efrim trumps me on the Minor League knowledge, though. Chop Talk magazine is an excellent monthly source of Minor League news and performances. Another one to look out for-Julio Teheran. Kids only 17-Braves signed him when he was 15 or 16 (whatever is legal). He may have Johan Santana potential, though he’s a few years away yet. Well worth watching, though.
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
November 22, 2008 9:04 PM | Link to this
DOB, thanks for the reply. I am still holding out for the world…a Peavy trade and an AJ signing…man, what a Christmas that would be!
I also love the music talk…have to admit, I used to think I knew a thing or two about music…until reading this blog! You and a lot of the denizens are much more knowledgeable and listen to many more genres than I ever did. I was mostly a “classic” rock guy with some grunge, folk, and in darker times in my life; hard stuff. I still enjoy some Tool..
I remember you stating that you still buy the CDs as there is something about owning them, etc. Man, do I concur. My little bro was going through a rough time a few years back, and I gave him my stereo system and all 500 or so CDs that I had collected. I was smart enough to borrow them back so I have at least a digital library, but I miss my “collection”.
By Lew
November 22, 2008 9:04 PM | Link to this
Steve-Just thought of it-I’ve got a Brian May solo CD that has a cut with him and Beck playing together called The Guv’nor.
By Lew
November 22, 2008 9:06 PM | Link to this
Flange-speaking of Blow By Blow and Wired-I’ve got a copy of Beck and Jan Hammer Live doing selective cuts from them. I’d be glad to burn you a copy if you’d like.
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
November 22, 2008 9:09 PM | Link to this
One more comment on Peavy…I am kind of surprised that the Towers and Wren haven’t at least checked in with each other (of course…they could have since the last time DOB was able to check, but with Towers seemingly stating every conversation to the media; I doubt it) seeing how the Padres have no real trade partner, may need a 3rd or 4th team to deal with the Cubs, and stating that they got much further with the Braves…
I agree with some of you other denizens that state it appears Towers is playing a risky game…hoping someone loses out on the free agents and increases their desperation…could absolutely turn out like the Santana deal of last year where the Mets offered the 3rd best package but got the deal done.
By Steve from OH
November 22, 2008 9:10 PM | Link to this
Efrim, you were singing Hanson’s praises two years ago? I didn’t even know this blog existed two years ago, for crying out loud. Good call, bro. I’ll second your thoughts on Locke and Rohrbough, and add that you shouldn’t forget about Delgado and Teheran!
Flange, if you get a chance, check out Paul Gilbert’s song “Scarified”, if you haven’t already.
By John
November 22, 2008 9:11 PM | Link to this
Hey DOB….
it just makes me really nervous the longer we ( The Braves) go without making a deal for Peavy, Burnett, Lowe, etc. It makes me feel as if we are going to miss out on possibly all of them. Is this a ligit worry or should i just calm down???????
Thanks
By Lew
November 22, 2008 9:13 PM | Link to this
Jason-My wife has an IPod. I still prefer the wall of music-even if it has started on the second wall now. Haven’t quite figured out who to leave it to in my will, though.
By Steve from OH
November 22, 2008 9:16 PM | Link to this
Lew, you’re making me jealous. I wish I could have seen any one of those guys, much less all of them. Nobody really good comes around my area, although I did get to see Ted Nugent one time. Would love to see the G3 tour, if they ever made it around my way. I know I already suggested this to flange, but you would probably like a few of the tracks off Paul Gilbert’s Spaceship One. I would recommend checking it out on youtube.
So many albums, so little money.
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
November 22, 2008 9:21 PM | Link to this
Lew, I have been known to offer bribes…how can I get in your will? (:
How’s the weather in VT? We got a few inches of snow back in my old stomping grounds in Maine today. I have to admit, summers may be rough down here in FL, but it sure is nice to be able to go for a walk in shorts and a t-shirt this time of year…although we have gotten a couple of cold fronts in the last few weeks…even got down to 29 here the other night!!
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
November 22, 2008 9:29 PM | Link to this
Imagine this rotation in 2010:
Peavy AJ Hudson JJ Hanson
All a man (or woman) can say to that is…WOW! That would be something special there…and if the Braves start talking to Towers again (if he hasn’t made the Braves’ brass too mad), I think it could happen!
By doug
November 22, 2008 9:30 PM | Link to this
this blog is maybe 5 years old? DOB has been keeping us informed for a long time Steve.
Lew, i saw Stevie Ray the night he died in Alpine Valley in Wisconsin. Robert Cray Band, Stevie Ray Vaughn and Double trouble opened for Eric Clapton. During the encores i remember Jimmy Vaughn there and Buddy Guy. all those great guitarist lined up and playing, the place was in Wisconsin, but very close to Chicago so Buddy Guy was there.
i woke up the next day to the news, but couldn’t beleive it. They said a helicopter flew into a mountain top in the fog. i wasn’t driving that night, so maybe that’s why i don’t remember the fog (or the encore songs played) but i do know there aren’t any mountains there.
RIP SRV
By doug
November 22, 2008 9:30 PM | Link to this
this blog is maybe 5 years old? DOB has been keeping us informed for a long time Steve.
Lew, i saw Stevie Ray the night he died in Alpine Valley in Wisconsin. Robert Cray Band, Stevie Ray Vaughn and Double trouble opened for Eric Clapton. During the encores i remember Jimmy Vaughn there and Buddy Guy. all those great guitarist lined up and playing, the place was in Wisconsin, but very close to Chicago so Buddy Guy was there.
i woke up the next day to the news, but couldn’t beleive it. They said a helicopter flew into a mountain top in the fog. i wasn’t driving that night, so maybe that’s why i don’t remember the fog (or the encore songs played) but i do know there aren’t any mountains there.
RIP SRV
By Efrim
November 22, 2008 9:30 PM | Link to this
Steve from OH
56/9 K/BB rate in Danville caught my attention. As well as the tall pitchers frame. He has only gotten better. Pretty exciting to have the type of farm that we currently have.
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
November 22, 2008 9:32 PM | Link to this
Here’s an excerpt from an article about the AFL championship today on MLB.com:
“The first obstacle was the 6-foot-6 right-hander who took the mound for Mesa. Braves prospect Tommy Hanson has been by far the most dominant pitcher in the AFL this season — perhaps in any season — and managing any offense against him would be easier said than done.
The heralded hurler performed as scripted, going five innings while allowing a run on three hits with eight strikeouts.
Already the winner of the circuit’s pitching Triple Crown and potentially the first pitcher to take home league MVP honors (announced at the Winter Meetings), Hanson didn’t give up his lone run until the fifth, when he already had a three-run lead. For the AFL season — including the championship game and Rising Stars Showcase — Hanson pitched 36 2/3 innings, allowing only 13 hits and 10 walks while striking out 64. He finished the campaign with a combined 0.74 ERA.”
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
November 22, 2008 9:33 PM | Link to this
And one more…
“”Tommy Hanson is a great pitcher,” Donaldson said. “When you see someone new after him, it makes the at-bats seem a little easier. It’s not that the other guys are bad, but Hanson’s that good.”
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
November 22, 2008 9:35 PM | Link to this
Wow, Texas Tech is getting absolutely demolished by OU!!!
By Steve from OH
November 22, 2008 9:52 PM | Link to this
Wow, Texas Tech is getting absolutely demolished by OU!!!
Yeah, that game is becoming a real let-down. And I was looking forward to it, too. At least my Red Wings are on tv tonight.
By flange1
November 22, 2008 9:54 PM | Link to this
Steve from OH,
I will check out the Gilbert tracks! I concur with Lew, I have seen Clapton (many times) Page 3 times, Dicky Betts many times, Pete Townsend many times, Ron and Keith many times, SRV 3 times, but Beck (who I have seen 5 times) is the best far and away.
Last time I saw him was at little place in Atlanta that used to be a church called the Tabernacle, lots of guitar players there and Beck was on the top of his game. It was funny watching the guys in the crowd saying DID U SEE THAT! HOW DID HE DO THAT! Amazing what the guy can do. How he can rest his right hand on the bridge, play with his fingers, rotate the volume know and use the tram bar ALL WITH ONE HAND AT THE SAME TIME IS incredible.
Email me at flangebox@yahoo.com and I will send you some tracks!
Lew, I would love to have the Beck/Hammer tracks! They were awesome together!
By Steve from OH
November 22, 2008 10:05 PM | Link to this
Flange, I’ll be sure to shoot you an e-mail Monday morning (I’ve got strict personal rules against checking my e-mail on weekends; don’t want to spend my entire Saturday night checking/responding to e-mails). Thanks!
By Nick
November 22, 2008 10:12 PM | Link to this
DOB! How ‘bout them Red Raiders! Looks like they actually CAN be shut down! This is a great example of what happens when a team with NO defense gets shut down on offense, even if it’s only for a half, or even a quarter! They get in a position where they are down by so much it’s too hard to make a legit comeback. Can’t wait to see what some of these “high-powered” offenses do when they get hit directly in the mouth by a defense like Alabama’s! Roll Tide Roll!!!
By flange1
November 22, 2008 10:19 PM | Link to this
Steve, that is cool!
By AdirondackDave
November 22, 2008 10:22 PM | Link to this
The economy, seems to me, is still the 800 pound gorilla of this hot stove season and beyond. I don’t see how it can be otherwise if there is any clear thinking left in baseball. The free agents who don’t sign early may wind up wishing they had. The GMs have to be thinking about the implications of reduced revenue for the next few years when make their free agent offers. Even when trading, the club-friendly contracts (including Peavy’s) don’t look quite as much a bargain as they did a couple months ago.
My sense is that there will be a greater and greater premium on good, young (and therefore cleap) players. Take the Hanson situation. Here’s a guy everybody believes will be an outstanding major league pitcher and not in 3-4 years but more likiely 1-2 years. Frank Wren has very good reason to tell Towers and others that Hanson is untouchable. It can increasingly be argued that Hanson is more valuable at this moment than Peavy and should not be traded even up for the Pad’s ace. Hanson is a winner, under control for no money for the first three years and then less than FA market for the second three years.
Same really can be said for Escobar. He’s a fine, young, and cheap player at a critical position. We’d be sayiing the same about McCann if he weren’t signed early (and wisely) for an extended contract. Consider Jurrjens, same story. He’ll be a bargain for years compared to the veterans at their current salary levels.
The Braves, because they intend to compete in ‘09, are understandably looking at free agents. But they are building their club mainly from a position of internal strength with so many desirable home-grown prospects.
I look forward to a couple free agents making the Braves a challenger this coming year. But I’m far more excited about the longer term with the likes of Hanson, Heyward, Flowers, and others when they make it to the big club.
By I can haz cheezburger?
November 22, 2008 10:38 PM | Link to this
Tazawa’s amateur season ends
OSAKA (Kyodo) The sweepstakes for Junichi Tazawa are about to heat up among major league clubs after the season for the highly regarded amateur pitcher ended Saturday, when his Nippon Oil team crashed out of the national corporate baseball championships.
So when can we expect him to sign (with anyone)?
By Couch Tater
November 22, 2008 10:40 PM | Link to this
CameronC.- Thanks for the play by play.
By David O'Brien
November 22, 2008 10:56 PM | Link to this
I did take Oklahoma and give 40 points, right? Just making sure.
By David O'Brien
November 22, 2008 11:07 PM | Link to this
JasonInFla: Funny you and Lew both mentioned CD collections. As that game got out of hand, I decided to do the once-ever-six-months-or-so task of rearranging the CD collection, had to open up some more space by converting a rack of 100 or so cassettes to CD space (yes, I keep some cassettes, though I obviously haven’t played them in years; why I keep them, I don’t know. Probably because they’re worthless otherwise. But I let a girl who has a cassette deck in her old car take whatever she wants and play them, so that’s cool.)
Anyway, by opening up a new rack I had to, of course, go through all 12 or so other racks, opening up a few inches of space in each as I sent through, sliding over big blocks of CDs. And I’ve got this one rack, stupid of me to have purchased, in which you slide them in vertically, on individual slots. So of course I had to take those out one by one, and slide in new ones one by one….
OK, that explanation was almost as tedious as the actual task, which is now completed.
By David O'Brien
November 22, 2008 11:12 PM | Link to this
Salamander, that’s high praise indeed for the new Deerhunter album (“sounds like Velvet Underground”). Can’t wait to get it.
For those who might be wondering who the hell Deerhunter is, they’re another of the emerging bands from an outstanding current Atlanta-area music scene. Their new CD has been called by several national critics one of the top indie records of the year.
By Couch Tater
November 22, 2008 11:18 PM | Link to this
and who would have picked an FSU safety to be a Rhodes Scholar? Quite a feelgood story. Congrats to Myron Rolle of Florida State.
By Interested Observer
November 22, 2008 11:20 PM | Link to this
The crawl on ESPN is reporting that the Chad Billingsley of the Dodgers has broken his fibula. It doesn’t say how or what the prognosis is.
By Lew
November 22, 2008 11:21 PM | Link to this
DOB-Damn, I know exactly what you mean about moving them and I only have about half as many as you do. It is a monumental undertaking. I would dread having to move.
It has approached the level of absurdity. If I listened to one CD a day, it would take over four years to listen to the entire collection-and I don’t have the vinyl you have, either. Gave the cassettes away a long time ago.
By Lew
November 22, 2008 11:23 PM | Link to this
Flange-No problem on the Full Moon Boogie stufff. I also have the old Jeff Beck/Rod Stewart remasters-Truth and BeckOla.
Shoot me your address again, just to make sure. I probably have it, but not too sure where.
By Wilson
November 22, 2008 11:29 PM | Link to this
DOB, I’ve seen multiple reports that A.J. Burnett wants five years and whoever makes him a 5 year offer will have the best shot of getting him. The Blue Jays and Yankees have both made it clear they don’t want to do a 5 year deal with him. Do you know if Wren is willing to do 5 years or not?
By semiballcoach
November 22, 2008 11:37 PM | Link to this
SRV —Alpine Valley—encore —16 minute sweet home chicago with all of them on stage…there is a fender (i think) poster from that night… going to see derek trucks and susan tedeschi new years eve at the fox
By nolie
November 23, 2008 12:00 AM | Link to this
any of you geetar luvers ever listen to any Roy Buchanan? Awesome picker. Hung himself in a jail cell in 1988 at age 49. Note-bendin’ blues/rocker with a ‘53 telecaster. Try him.
By nolie
November 23, 2008 12:21 AM | Link to this
It has approached the level of absurdity. If I listened to one CD a day, it would take over four years to listen to the entire collection-and I don’t have the vinyl you have, either. Gave the cassettes away a long time ago.Lew
that’s about the size of my music collection too, though I have ripped them all to a hard drive. My real excess is movies though, I have over 4000 of the damn things. Ripped them all to numerous hard drives too. Got 1 Terabyte drives all over the damn place. They are all hooked up to a media player running through my receiver and my 60” plasma in the main room. Also have a smaller system 46” in the bedroom with connections too. A data base on my computer to tell me where all that stuff is ripped to. I can just switch a hard drive from one media player to another when I wanna go to bed. Still haven’t set it up on a wireless home server, they are still kinda funky with that much media sometimes. Just use sneaker-net from one room to another with the hard drives. I’ll never live long enough to watch or listen to all that stuff again, so I obviously have a jones.
By nolie
November 23, 2008 1:02 AM | Link to this
Hung himself in a jail cell in 1988 at age 49. Note-bendin’ blues/rocker with a ‘53 telecaster. Try himme
technically he hanged himself. Pictures are hung, people are hanged. Great player anyway.
By nfieldr
November 23, 2008 1:53 AM | Link to this
DOB, did I read correctly that you ride a Trumpet? I had you figured for a Harley man. I had a Norton back in the day. Gotta love those Brit bikes.
By nolie
November 23, 2008 2:05 AM | Link to this
I wonder where everybody is? Do you all have a life except me?
I had a Norton, a Triumph and a BSA 3-banger in late 60s to early 70s. Perforrmed good,well not the BSA-what a piece of junk that was-but they all found a way to leak some oil.
By David O'Brien
November 23, 2008 2:20 AM | Link to this
Couch Tater, did you see the story that ESPN did on him this morning on Outside the Lines? Very impressive dude (obviously if he’s a Rhodes Scholar, he’s very impressive).
Speaking of Rhodes Scholars, did you know Kris Kristofferson was one? Sure was….
nfielder, the Triumph Bonneville is my get-around-town bike, great when there’s a ton of traffic or when I’m just going a short distance and want to park on a sidewalk or whatever. Just a fun sort of bike. Less than 500 pounds.
Harley Street Bob, with a 103 engine is my primary bike. Love that thing. It’s what I’m on most of the time, and anytime I’m doing any sort of serious riding. It doesn’t like start-and-stop riding in the city too much. Likes to go.
By Cheyenne
November 23, 2008 2:27 AM | Link to this
I saw a column that the Braves have inquired about Millwood and Padilla. Might be one of our two top of the order starters we were promised? Looks like we are going to miss out on anything much better unless a trade happens. We need some help for sure in the starting pitching and at left field. It seems like we’ve been trying forever already.
By Ron in mobile
November 23, 2008 2:29 AM | Link to this
Sooo….no Peavy yet! What gives
By Ron in mobile
November 23, 2008 2:29 AM | Link to this
Sooo….no Peavy yet! What gives
By uga-brave
November 23, 2008 3:15 AM | Link to this
whiskey. bay area steve. one more whiskey.
cant see straight. but a whiskey would be good.
By nolie
November 23, 2008 3:48 AM | Link to this
Speaking of Rhodes Scholars, did you know Kris Kristofferson was one? Sure wasDOB
yeah, he was posted to teach at West Point too b4 he quit the service. Air Force. brat too.Won his blue in rugby at Oxford. Was an Army helicopter pilot. Finished Ranger training.a Renaissance man so to speak. My hero.
By ncscoots
November 23, 2008 7:16 AM | Link to this
It’s true that the Braves seemed to have tapped a motherlode of pitching prospects over the last three years, with both the draft and trades. Frankly, they look as if they have already cashed, if Jurrjens and Hanson both fulfill their potential and reside at the top of the rotation for the next few years.
As for the remaining half-dozen or so with true ceilings, I think the Braves would be happy to see one develop to a high level, ecstatic to see two. It’s just so unlikely that a large percentage of those prospects who look so promising in the low minors will actually make it.
So, while it might look as if the Braves could field a complete 12-man homegrown staff in a few years, that would smack of unseemly greed, LOL. But a rotation anchored by Jurrjens/Hanson/pick-one would look awfully familiar to some years past.
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
November 23, 2008 7:20 AM | Link to this
I met Kris Kristofferson in Houlton, ME…true story. Somehow, he ended up in Houlton, ME during the 4th of July around 1991 (I think). I was living on my own and helping the event organizer put up tents (weddings, receptions, etc). They guy I worked for owned York’s Book Store who always organized the music for the 4th.
Great show…great guy. Also got to meet Charlie Daniels the same way.
By mitchie-san
November 23, 2008 7:28 AM | Link to this
*Random I was stationed onboard the USS Blue Ridge in Yokosuka. I loved every second I was there. I didnt want to leave Japan, but my time was up. Now I am enjoying some shore duty in Hawaii. Life is good…it would be better if the Braves did something, though!
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
November 23, 2008 7:31 AM | Link to this
Lew & DOB, I can only imagine reorganizing a collection of your size…it took me long enough to ensure that mine where in alphabetical and chronological order…and I only had 500! Now as a disclaimer, I did build mine in a very short time!
By J.L.
November 23, 2008 8:09 AM | Link to this
How to sign C.C. Be competitive with the money and let him play one of the corners when not pitching.
By ncgary
November 23, 2008 8:50 AM | Link to this
j.l. you have the right idea, we solve 2 problems with 1 pick up , ace pitcher and clean up hitter. lol well at least its on the farr side
By ncgary
November 23, 2008 9:28 AM | Link to this
i think 107 million for 4 years to cc is very doable when you comsider he could ultimately serve 3 roles. ace pitcher, clean up hitting left fielder and lefty relief specialist, thats 15 million for the ace 9 million for the left fielder who starts around 135 games and 3 million for the lefty reliever and only 1 spot on the 25 lol. is it time for the rosters to be expanded? why not have 3 open slots that could be kinda like the nfl where 3 are on the roster but disqualified from that days game ,sure it costs more but could ultimately save careers by allowing players days off instead of going to injured lists or either playing through the injury and injuring it more
peavey would be nice but the price sounds tooo steep,maybe reyes and morton, rohrbaugh? or medlin boyer and littlebridge or prado gets it done, sure it would decimate some 2 year projections from the system but peavey is peavey and he makes you competive now
sure 5 players for 1 is steep,is a rip off but 2 mid quality starters now 1 mid range projected starter 2 years away 1 reliever and 1 top notch reserve infielder or weak starter for a bonafide ace?? towers may not get any thing better???if escobar is included reyes and morton should be more than enough in my opine
By 18 Wheels of Love
November 23, 2008 9:28 AM | Link to this
Getting any of the big 3 or 4 free agent pitchers is going to require Wren to either overpay or over commit. I just wonder how comfortable he is doing either of these since the Braves have not really done it before with a free agent. If he does it does that break the mold the Braves have operated under for years? Or is that mold unbreakable? I think the same goes with the Peavy ‘negotiations’. Does he break the mold and give a no trade clause? It will be interesting to say the least.
I say overcommit for Burnett, trade for Peavy, and take a flyer on Ben Sheets. Then prospects for Jermaine Dye and see you all in spring training!
By Max 14
November 23, 2008 9:38 AM | Link to this
Hi Braves fans, this is my first post here on the blog, and I’ve enjoyed reading many of the comments here.
Read the comments on SRV, Buddy Guy, Clapton, etc.. I love all those guys. What about the Iceman Albert Collins? Most blues pickers play in standard tuning, unless there playing slide and you see alot of open tuning in different keys for different songs. Thats why they have more than one guitar on stage alot of the time. A certain guitar may just be used for one song. Albert Collins tuned his guitar to an open A minor and played it with every song with different keys fretting and not playing slide. Its really unique, and has a different sound.
Oh yeah, on the Texas Tech vs. Oklahoma game, I was disapointed. I was looking forward to watch a really close shootout, and instead got to watch Texas Tech receive the corporate smackdown( sorry for the wwe reference).
I really think the Braves need Peavy, and I’m not saying that just to be competitive next year, but over the next few years while the youth like JJ and Hanson progress. This Tazawa kid is looking pretty good. If I’m not mistaken, he pitched a complete game shutout with 10 K’s in his championship game. That sounds like talent and potential to me.
By J.L.
November 23, 2008 10:18 AM | Link to this
NCGARY Good idea, but thats the problem,Do you think MLB and the players agreeing?
By KC
November 23, 2008 10:22 AM | Link to this
Max 14: I think the Braves need Peavy THIS year, but I’m not so sure that they’ll have as great a need in the 2-3 years to follow.
Hudson should be 100% for 2010 (and I think we’ll have a great chance of re-signing him after that). Jurrjens will have 2 complete seasons under his belt. Hanson might have a full major league season under his belt come 2010… and I have to believe that we’re going to find at least one quality pitcher this winter who should still be around in 2-3 years.
In that scenario (which I think is more likely than not), even without Peavy, the Braves are at least 4-deep in their rotation, with at least 1 -maybe more- legitimate ace.
Someone like Peavy is critical for 2009 because of Hudson’s injury. After that, he could certainly still be a difference-maker, don’t get me wrong, but I’m not sure he would be absolutely needed.
By Efrim
November 23, 2008 10:24 AM | Link to this
Buster Olney:
Chad Billingsley slipped on ice and broke his leg, and you do have to wonder if this will re-ignite the Dodgers’ interest in a deal for Jake Peavy. This is exactly the kind of unexpected development that can change stalled trade talks.
I disagree. Why should it? Billingsley is going to be back by the spring and this shouldn’t make them want to increase their involvement on Jake Peavy. It’s possible that they have always had interest to a degree. Any team that was on Peavy’s list should have some interest in a frontline starter such as Peavy. Buster is great, one of my favorites, but he needs to lay off the ARod to the Yankees theory because Aaron Boone got hurt. He uses that analogy every single winter.
By flange1
November 23, 2008 10:27 AM | Link to this
Nolie,
Roy was a bad man. Have a 53 tele that is a copy of his. Wasn’t his guitar called Nancy?
Max 14, The IceMan is also a tele playing bad man. If you ever got to see him live, he could pierce your ears with that tele if he wanted too.
He was also in Adventures in Baby Sitting. Only performer I know that used a 200 foot cable. He used it to take some of the bite out of his tele and super reverb.
DOB, on Lucinda, I bought Gravel Road and the new one yesterday. When I get a new CD by a new artist, I usually listen to 4 tracks a day, then listen to the whole thing. I actually listened to both of those records back to back! As you say Gravel Road is one of the best albums from cover to cover that I think I have heard in many years. The new one is good as well.
WHich others do you recommend?
By Couch Tater
November 23, 2008 10:43 AM | Link to this
DOB - I caught only the last few minutes of Outside the Lines, but that inspired me to read all of the articles about Myron.
nolie - Roy Buchanan? OMG Tele twang at it’s best. He inspired Jeff Beck, Hendrix, Danny Gatton among others. But I’m sure you already know that. I don’t know if any reliever is using that Peter Gunn theme, but d@mn. There is a vid on You Tube of Buchanan, Albert Collins and Lonnie Mack. Also, if you have never seen Johnny Hiland check him out. Maybe one of the more astute denizens can post a link. (you know, I’m still a tube amp kinda guy.)
By flange1
November 23, 2008 10:52 AM | Link to this
KC,
I am not arguing with you, but if Hudson is ready for 2010 and JJJ and Hanson are there too, why shouldn’t we look for a short 1-2 year deal on a good pitcher?
Maybe Randy Johnson?
By then we hope one of Rorhbaugh, Locke or Medlin should be ready?
If you pick up Randy a decent young arm like Ian Snell that you can control and Hampton, you would have a fairly balance rotation of pitchers, you are not spending a ton of money and Hudson joins in 2010 (maybe sooner).
Then spend the $ on the OF + the infielder you will lose in the trade for the pitcher.
Lew, Thanks for the offer on the additional Beck tracks! I will take you up on those as well. I will shoot you an email shortly.
Efrim, I think what the author of the Billingsly article was trying to say is that Billingsly MIGHT NOT Be ready so soon. The Dodgers are saying the right things, but, who knows.
By Anders
November 23, 2008 10:53 AM | Link to this
Efrim
To be fair to Onley he didn’t say it would re-ignite it. He said you have to wonder etc… and that it can ignite things etc..
Same kind of generic speak DOB uses when he wants to get a thought out there but not give a firm opinion on it.
That’s fair for them to do so. Makes for good copy and starts the chatter.
On another subject - I’m really wondering what happens to the Mets budget if their CitiPark naming deal falls through because of CitiBanks financial woes. That’s $20 mil per year starting in 2009. Hopefully they got 2009 paid already (at least hopefully for me).I doubt it though.
By Lew
November 23, 2008 10:58 AM | Link to this
Flange-If you’re still wanting to hear some great Texas style blues rock, missing SRV and disappointed with his brother Jimmy, then check out a central Florida guitarist named Sean Chambers.
About 10-11 years ago when I lived in St. Pete, I did some artwork for a radio station, hung out with the DJ’s and got to meet all sorts of musicians and to hear some excellent music-particularly of the blues variety, as C. FL. has a huge blues scene. Buddy Guy, James and Lucky Peterson, Chris Anderson (one incarnation of The Outlaws), Tinsley Ellis (a buddy of mine from Mercer plays sax with him) and others were constant presences. Even got to meet BB KIng and hung out in the Green Room with his family-THAT was an experience.
Chambers was up and coming at the time and a good buddy of mine and I used to go see him at The Ringside Cafe, right down the street from my house-he was almost the house band, he played there so often. We used to party with him between sets and after the shows.
He started out playing in a SRV Tribute band called Double Threat, but branched out into his own music. The Kid (as they called him then) was incredibly good and could play SRV, Bily Gibbons and Johnny Winter note perfect. . My buddy even got a mention in the liner notes of his first CD called Strong Temptation. Check it out-you can probably find a copy real cheap on Amazon. Lots of great driving Texas blues along with a couple of Buddy Guy and Johnny Winter covers (does a monumentally good cover of Mean Town Blues). I bet you’d like it.
By brian
November 23, 2008 11:00 AM | Link to this
I am embarrassed about this blog. Why haven’t we brought this blog down yet with comments?
By brian
November 23, 2008 11:02 AM | Link to this
good thing for DVR and HBO on demand. The “24” movie tonight and the finale of True Blood. Good TV tonight
By Efrim
November 23, 2008 11:07 AM | Link to this
Flange1 and Anders
I understand your points. But I can’t imagine that a 24 year old like Billingsley missing the first two weeks of the season(for a young Dodoger team) would make a team more involved on a starter who is owed 81 million over the next five years. I think they are either involved in the Peavy trades, or not.
By Efrim
November 23, 2008 11:09 AM | Link to this
brian
It has been a real slow two-three days of rumors. I haven’t heard much from the writers of baseball. Olney just wrote about Lebron James helping Sabathia’s cause to go to NYC. It will probably continue past Thanksgiving too.
By Efrim
November 23, 2008 11:14 AM | Link to this
Anders
I am interested to see how much money the Mets spend. I think they’ll sign K Rod. I also think they will trade for a reliever to use in the set up role. I’m not so sure they will end up with Lowe or Burnett though. Also, I have a feeling they will pass on upgrading on the offensive side of the ball, which I think is pretty important for them.
They should sign a left fielder like Abreu and use Dan Murphy as a utlity man.
By Lew
November 23, 2008 11:16 AM | Link to this
Anders-I had wondered the same thing. While I’m not so sure the economy will destroy the financial integrity of baseball like some seem to think (not you on this one), the naming rights could very well suffer from the economic downturn and doldrums. At least the Braves should be fine in that regard. Buffalo Burgers are still selling pretty well.
By Lew
November 23, 2008 11:20 AM | Link to this
Brian-What do you think of True Blood? I’ve seen all the episodes so far and really enjoy it, but then again, I’ve been a Fantasy/SciFi illustrator for years and have painted my share of Vampires (run into a few at conventions, too). No one on the blog talks about it though, so I haven’t heard feedback from anyone else. I”m interested in someone elses’ take on the show.
By Anders
November 23, 2008 11:22 AM | Link to this
Efrim
That’s what I meant by good copy. Things are crawling and Onley has air time and pages to fill.
I think the Yanks make Sabathia decide before the winter meetings. Why let this get into an environment where all your competitors are in the same place along with the media? That’s an easier play for CC’s agent. I think they’ll let CC talk to whatever teams he wants over the next week, call a meeting with them next week , see where they are price wise and then if it makes sense the Yanks will beat the best offer but have them make the decision at the meeting. Can’t leave the room to shop it. It’s been done before.
By flange1
November 23, 2008 11:29 AM | Link to this
Efrim,
Again not arguing, but if Billingsly heals as slowly as Nick Johnson….
Lew, I will check him out!
Coach Tater,
I got to meet Johnny Hillard in Nashville at the NAMM a few years ago before he was signed. He was basically playing in the street in Nashville, came into NAMM with a music store owner from Nashville. He came into the Fender booth, I was talking to James Burton (sorry listening to James Burton, I was so nervous that I almost vomited!) Hilliard picked up a tele and the whole room stopped and listened. Burton went over and started talking to him. Really cool moment!
By Efrim
November 23, 2008 11:35 AM | Link to this
Flange1
Again not arguing, but if Billingsly heals as slowly as Nick Johnson….
Good point. Poor Nick Johnson. So much talent. Guy just can’t stay on the field.
By flange1
November 23, 2008 11:37 AM | Link to this
Anders,
Agree on CC. Can’t let that huge offer sit on the table for ever and other teams work up the nerve to match it. Set a deadline!
Also, if I were the Mets, I would grab Fuentes, and Kerry Wood, trade Heilman for anything (stop whining, 2 pitch pitcher don’t do well starting, ask Chuck James) and go after Juan Rivera.
That would spend a bit more money than the Mets want to, but by using Wood carefully with the rest of the pen they already have, they would be hard to beat.
Maybe pick up a starter during the season or a bargain/recovery guy now.
By Anders
November 23, 2008 11:38 AM | Link to this
Efrim
If the Mets signed Abreu I think they may consider moving Daniel Murphy to first which is his natural position and trade Delgado who would have real value in the AL. Considering how his bat came alive and only $12 mil in salary. Not saying they get a starting position player but I do think you could get a real good 8th inning type guy and maybe a prospect. The Angels might be interested if Tex walks.
It would be a big risk because of the numbers he contributed last year but Abreu would almost certainly give you 2/3’s of that. Abreu’s defense scares the crap out of to me to be fair. He’s never seen an outfield wall he won’t shy away from.
As for Lowe, I think if the Yanks sign CC then the Red Sox will over pay for Lowe. Then the Yanks over pay for Burnett and so on.
By Lew
November 23, 2008 11:43 AM | Link to this
Flange-It’s Sunday morning and my brain is functioning kind of slow. Why don’t I just burn you a copy of Strong Temptation when I do the Beck stuff? Ever hear of Eli Cook ?
By flange1
November 23, 2008 11:51 AM | Link to this
Lew, you have mail!
By Daybed Wagmoe
November 23, 2008 11:52 AM | Link to this
DOB — listening to the new Deerhunter CD, “Microcastle.” Amazing. This is my first time listening to them, and I’m already hooked, though the Velvet Underground aren’t the first band I’d compare them to. The VU influence is there, but I’d say Sonic Youth and/or My Bloody Valentine first.
Have you heard the Beach House release from earlier this year, “Devotion”? That’s terrific as well.
By Couch Tater
November 23, 2008 11:59 AM | Link to this
flange - Johnny Hiland is one of the most down to earth, screamin’ pickers I’ve ever heard. I got to meet him at Robert’s in Nashville, last year.
By Efrim
November 23, 2008 12:01 PM | Link to this
Anders
As for Lowe, I think if the Yanks sign CC then the Red Sox will over pay for Lowe. Then the Yanks over pay for Burnett and so on.
I think Lowe and Sabathia end up as Yankees. That is why I think the Braves have more of a shot on Burnett than most people think. Why should Burnett go back to the Jays if they offer a five year contract? I bet if the Braves offer five years with more money, he goes to ATL. The green is what drives most of these guys. Generalization, because some have given up less, but for the most part, money talks.
I think Teixeira is going to sign with the Boston Red Sox, which really creates a log jam of sorts. Youk moves to 3rd and Lowell either gets traded or becomes the most expensive bench player in the country. Also, the Red Sox best prospect is a first baseman - Lars Anderson. He is still going to need another year in the minors, but he should be ready by 2010. Say, an arm like Matt Cain or Zach Grienke becomes available within the next year, Anderson will be one of the best trade chips in baseball as he is just as highly regarded as Jason Heyward or Fernando Martinez. Tex is the perfect Red Sox player and is the best free agent out there, in my mind. Check this lineup with Teixeira in it:
CF Ellsbury
2B Pedroia
DH Ortiz
1B Teixiera
3B Youkilis
RF Drew
LF Bay
SS Lowrie
C Varitek(Will it even matter?)
That is a lot of power and on base ability. Plus an above average defense. Kind of scary.
Of course, like I said, rather expensive talents on the bench with Mike Lowell and Julio Lugo, which you can surely expect to see one of them traded during this offseason…..if they ink Tex.
By flange1
November 23, 2008 12:04 PM | Link to this
Lew,
Sounds great!
No, I don’t know Eli Cook.
Coach Tater,
He is exactly that! real nice young man. Great fingers!
By the way, are their any other amps but tube amps? :)
By flange1
November 23, 2008 12:13 PM | Link to this
Efrim,
I agree with your take on The Sox.
They will trade Lugo to the Tigers for Nate Robertson and then after Lowell comes back healthy, move him for something.
Lars is going to be a monster player….
If Lowell get well in the spring, I can see Cain for Lowell and Lars and a pitching prospect.
By David O'Brien
November 23, 2008 12:22 PM | Link to this
Max 14: Couldn’t agree more on Albert Collins. Absolutely love that dude’s music, and it’s a shame he doesn’t get more credit than some of the inferior but more “mainstream” guitarists.
By David O'Brien
November 23, 2008 12:37 PM | Link to this
Daybed, now I’m getting Sonic Youth comparison to the Deerhunter CD, after already getting the VU comparison? Wow. Now I know I’ve gotta get it. I’ll look in another store today….
Flange1, Car Wheels… is still her best, for me, followed by Sweet Old World from the early 1990s, and, in certain order, the new CD (you said you had it), West and World Without Tears. I also really liked Essence and a couple of her earliest albums, from her early-1980s (or was it actually late-70s?) emergence, Happy Woman Blues and her self-titled album, which are spare, more acoustic country/blues/folk, far less production than her later major-label albums. But also hard to find, probably.
The live abum she did at the Fillmore is also pretty solid.
By KC
November 23, 2008 12:38 PM | Link to this
Flange1: I think we should all hope that K.Towers quickly comes to his senses and accepts the Escobar+Gorkys+Morton+another-young-pitcher offer.
Is that a helluva lot to give up? Sure it is. But the fact remains that there is NOTHING more valuable than a legitimate power-armed ace for a team with World Series aspirations. And given Peavy’s age (27), it’s not as though it’s a total contest of here-and-now VS. building for the future.
If we can’t get Peavy, and the best pitcher available is a 1 or 2 year guy… then sure, sign a short-term fix. Though, I’m still hopeful that we’ll manage to get Peavy, Lowe, or Burnett.
I’m not so sure that Randy Johnson would be the answer though. He’s not what he used to be, and he’s prone to frequent breakdowns. Personally, I think he should move the pen and take a stab at closing. I think it would prolong his career.
By Lew
November 23, 2008 12:44 PM | Link to this
Flange-You might also like Heroines by Tony Joe White. He does duets with Lucinda, Emmylou Harris and Shelby Lynne. Great album.
By ernesto
November 23, 2008 12:51 PM | Link to this
DOB - Speaking of Sonic Youth, had lunch next to Thurston in a diner in Williamsburg (Brooklyn) couple of weeks ago, evidently he’s been there a while. Good place too, DOB, if you’re ever in that hood, it’s called “Diner”.
Braveheart, a might RTR out to ya, brother! Here’s hoping the good Tide shows up next Saturday.
When it comes to the Ironbowl you can throw the records out, it’s just a good old fashioned Hatefest - and those can always go either way.
By Bubdylan
November 23, 2008 12:53 PM | Link to this
Just read Wren’s chat transcript again. I’m sure he’s a smart dude where it counts, but he’s not too skilled with the ol’ comma, is he?
By Efrim
November 23, 2008 1:36 PM | Link to this
I think we should all hope that K.Towers quickly comes to his senses and accepts the Escobar+Gorkys+Morton+another-young-pitcher offer.
Agreed. Things could get a bit more difficult after December 1st, and certainly more difficult once the winter meetings begin.
By nolie
November 23, 2008 2:20 PM | Link to this
No one on the blog talks about it though, so I haven’t heard feedback from anyone else. I”m interested in someone elses’ take on the showLew
I think it’s pretty decent, and I hope it makes it back next year. I also like Reaper and Supernatural.Sanctuary and Fringe aren’t bad too if you like that kinda stuff. Also like Life, Pushing Daisies and Chuck from last season, but I doubt any of them will get another season after this one.
By nolie
November 23, 2008 2:33 PM | Link to this
He was also in Adventures in Baby Sittingflange
One of the cutest teen movies I’ve seen. I thought that blues skit was a lotta fun. Call me a dirty old pervert, but Elisabeth Shue was cute as a button at that age.
By Couch Tater
November 23, 2008 2:35 PM | Link to this
Anyone read about the snowball fight in South Bend yesterday?
I’m glad there was no snow in section #139, last August. ha ha.
By David O'Brien
November 23, 2008 2:53 PM | Link to this
Lew and other Jeff Beck-philes: He’s got a new live thing out, Live at Ronnie Scott’s from a show he did a year ago at the London jazz club by that name. It was four months after his apparently molten-lava blast at Eric Clapton’s Crossroads Festival in Chicago in 2007, with same quartet he played with there. All the Blow-by-Blow gems, and also what’s supposed to be an amazing version of *Beck’s Boldero” from 1967. It’s a live CD, with a DVD supposedly coming soon of the same show.
By David O'Brien
November 23, 2008 3:04 PM | Link to this
New York Daily News’ John Harper says Lowe could be out of Mets’ price range, which probably also doesn’t bode well for any notion of Braves signing him.
Boras has reportedly indicated he’s looking for a five-year deal worth $15-16 mill annually for Lowe. At his age, and with his very good but not overwhelming record, I can’t see the Braves bidding as much as Yanks and Red Sox are probably going to bid for his services.
(Plus, he’s a Boras guy, so it could be closer to Christmas before Lowe signs, according to people I’ve talked to.)
By Ryan
November 23, 2008 3:10 PM | Link to this
Well it seems as though that any chance we had of getting Tazawa is over, Red Sox offered 6mm, according to mlbtraderumors.com. It doesnt state if it is a major league deal or not, but I can see where he would rather play on a team where they will be contending for a WS rather than a rebuilding Braves team, who seem to be making no moves. I only see us making minor moves, GO BRAVES either way.
By Lew
November 23, 2008 3:55 PM | Link to this
DOB-Thanks for the Jeff Beck recommendation. He’s also a strange artist, in that his studio albums tend to be somewhat uninspiring (though McFann would be interested to know I used to have two parakeets that loved jamming to Blow By Blow and Wired), but in concert he just plays unbelievably great riffs. I saw him on the Guitar Shop Tour with Tony Hymas.
By David O'Brien
November 23, 2008 4:03 PM | Link to this
Ryan, on the other hand, maybe Tazawa is more of an independent guy (he’s already shown some of that by asking Japanese teams not to draft him) and will want to go to a team where he’s the big Asian star, rather than operating in Dice-K’s shadow in Red Sox Nation? You never know.
By nolie
November 23, 2008 4:10 PM | Link to this
Jeff Beck recommendation. He’s also a strange artist, in that his studio albums tend to be somewhat uninspiring Lew
I agree. his albums are too technical? some times and lack a bit of emotional fire. at least IMO.Al DiMeola is another great guitarist who sometimes does the same thing .
By Scottbravesfan
November 23, 2008 4:16 PM | Link to this
Dave,
What do you think is going to go down on the Sons of Anarchy finale? Last episode was crazy.
By Frank
November 23, 2008 4:20 PM | Link to this
Hi DOB,
I’m the Braves fan (and also a Jayhawk fan…Lol) from Kansas. I’m actually 45 minutes southwest of Kansas City in a little town called Ottawa.
Ya know, Peavy and Lowe would be very nice in a Braves uni next season. It’s been too long since us Braves fans have had anything exciting happening.
By ppaddy123
November 23, 2008 4:41 PM | Link to this
By Frank November 23, 2008 4:20 PM Ya know, Peavy and Lowe would be very nice in a Braves uni next season. It’s been too long since us Braves fans have had anything exciting happening.
I agree. I think having both those guys would give us a formidable rotation. However, I think if we do work the deal for Peavy, the Braves would probably go after Sheets since he will probably cost less and can be signed to a longer contract. By the way, the Falcons are currently “thumpin’” Carolina.
By 18 Wheels of Love
November 23, 2008 4:54 PM | Link to this
DOB,
I don’t recall you really mentioning Ben Sheets…is that because he is not on the radar?
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 23, 2008 4:54 PM | Link to this
Lew though McFann would be interested to know I used to have two parakeets that loved jamming to Blow By Blow and Wired
Never heard of them, but that’s cute!
Petey just had a sudden burst of happiness…we think it was from the sirens we just heard.
He also loves the theme songs to Hogan’s Heros, Leave it to Beaver, and, of course, Andy Griffith.
By TommyP
November 23, 2008 5:34 PM | Link to this
This thing dies on the weekends….great blog during the week but come Saturday…..
By ppaddy123
November 23, 2008 6:04 PM | Link to this
how many more posts b4 this thing crashes?
By ppaddy123
November 23, 2008 6:08 PM | Link to this
Did I say The Falcons were “thumpin’ Carolina? Scratch that!
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 23, 2008 6:44 PM | Link to this
ppaddy—
Roughly 174…but sometimes it let’s us go past 1,000.
By David O'Brien
November 23, 2008 6:49 PM | Link to this
TommyP, perhaps that’s because it’s the weekend before Thanksgiving and the Braves, like many teams, are making no news and not even involved in new rumors.
That’ll change, perhaps during this week, but normally not until after Thanksgiving.
If there’s nothing going on, yes, the blog slows down over the weekend during football season and before things really get hoppin’ in baseball. You been following many offseason? You’d know they don’t normally get real busy and interesting until after Thanksgiving and right before and during Winter Meetings.
But we’ve had some huge weekends this winter when new things were percolating. And if I wasn’t taking some time off, if I was working straight through the offseason, I’d post a new blog today. But I’m not supposed to be working every day, unless something happens.
By David O'Brien
November 23, 2008 6:52 PM | Link to this
18 Wheels of Love, because of Sheets’ extreme injury history (dude had never won more than 12 games before this season, he misses so much time) and his expected high salary, the Braves and most other teams would prefer to invest in other pitchers. Now, will that change if the Braves are shut out on every other front and Sheets’ asking price isn’t as high as expected? Perhaps. But so far, I’m not hearing his name mentioned.
Take a look at his history sometime, and the transactions for his DL stints through the years. And keep in mind, even this year, when he was having a great season, he got hurt and wasn’t available when the Brewers needed him most at the end, and wouldn’t have pitched in the postseason if they’d made it.
By David O'Brien
November 23, 2008 6:53 PM | Link to this
well get a new blog up tomorrow. from the dearth of comments here today, glad we didn’t bother putting up a new one this weekend.
By David O'Brien
November 23, 2008 6:53 PM | Link to this
well get a new blog up tomorrow. from the dearth of comments here today, glad we didn’t bother putting up a new one this weekend.
By Bobby's Cox
November 23, 2008 7:10 PM | Link to this
I was thinking the same thing about Tazawa that DOB posted at 4:03.
If it’s 6 mil, why wouldn’t the braves match that with the money they have available? If I’m understanding it correctly, that’s just a signing bonus right? His salary wouldn’t be nearly that high. It is a little steep, but not steep at all if the braves can’t land Lowe, Burnett, or Sheets.
By bravesfaninmetsland
November 23, 2008 8:36 PM | Link to this
DOB:
May I suggest the song on your next blog (if you’re only going to have one up between now and Wedensday morning) be Beck’s Fairwell Ride. Since it seemed to be The Shield’s theme song this year.
By Wayne
November 23, 2008 8:37 PM | Link to this
Been pretty busy helping my mother-in-law get moved into a new apartment for the past couple of days. Looks like a slow blog day.
Is 24-Redemption already on back east? It comes on here in 30 minutes. Please no updates.
Hope we have a shot a Tazawa. I know he wouldn’t be counted on for much this year, but he would be like having another Tommy Hanson around.
I think the longer the Peavy thing drags on, the less likely it will happen for the Braves.
Looks like the Falcons found their game today. My Jazz are doing OK, considering our injury situations.
McFann Our Pug, Max, used to howl when my son would play his saxophone. He and Petey would probably make a great twosome!
By Efrim
November 23, 2008 8:52 PM | Link to this
One small rumor tonight might have some impact in the Peavy talks. Teahan to the Cubs for Fontenot and Marshall?
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081123&content_id=3689772&vkey=hotstove2008&fext=.jsp
If the Cubs make that deal, I’m not sure how they can come to an accord with San Diego for Peavy. That would of been them dealing away two prime trade chips in Sean Marshall and Jose Ceda in the past two weeks.
The Cubs are looking for a left field bat. But like most of these rumors, it is probably just that. At least there was one rumor this weekend…..
By AdirondackDave
November 23, 2008 9:05 PM | Link to this
We’re leaving first thing in morning for, of all places, Atlanta. No computer so I’ll actually have to read the AJC paper down there. I expect you guys to reel in Peavy and Tazawa by the time I get back. Great Thanksgiving to one and all.
By Efrim
November 23, 2008 9:08 PM | Link to this
I just got the latest issue of Baseball America and they had an interesting Top 10 list of lefty/righty duos in the minors:
Left hander/Right hander
David Price/Wade Davis
Derek Holland/Nefatli Feliz
Brett Anderson/Trevor Cahill
Brian Matusz/Chris Tillman
Madison Bumgarner/Tim Alderson
6. Cole Rohrbough/Tommy Hanson
Ross Detwiler/Jordan Zimmerman
Sean West/Ryan Tucker
Franklin Morales/Jhoulys Chacin
Casey Crosby/Rick Porcello
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 23, 2008 9:08 PM | Link to this
Wayne—
That’s funny!
He and Petey would probably make a great twosome!
Haha! Probably! Petey’s actually not too afraid of dogs.
By Anders
November 23, 2008 9:17 PM | Link to this
Efrim
Just back on here. I read your post from earlier today about Lowe to the Yanks. Rumors are Boras wants 5 years at $15 mil per. I can’t believe I’m saying this but I think Burnett is less risk for the money he wants then a 35 year old Lowe for 5 years. If the Yanks get CC then I think they go after Burnett. If the Yanks don’t get CC they may go hard after Burnett and Lowe.They have too many question marks in their rotation to sit tight. They’re gonna throw money at the problem. You can always unload pitching.
As for the Mets, I’m not sold they’re definetly getting K-Rod. Seems like lots of rumors about him holding up. I’ll be honest, except for playoffs and the occasional Yankee/ Angel game I haven’t seen that much of him to speculate on wether his stuff is fading. All relievers are a crap shoot these days.
Lastly, I’m all for setting Heilman free. The guy’s benn a good soldier for the team. He wants to start, find a team that see’s some value in him and make the deal. At this point he has too much baggage as a Met’s reliever anyway.
By Efrim
November 23, 2008 9:31 PM | Link to this
Anders
I think the Mets will eventually come to terms with K Rod. I think they will eventually cave and give him four years guarenteed. 4 years and 52 million sounds about right. As for the other reliever, I think they’ll get that one through trade. Maybe they get an already established closer to set up K Rod? Maybe they’ll use Heilman to go acquire Huston Street. Heilman is a lot better than people in New York give him credit for. He isn’t a starter. He needs to realize that he throws two and a half pitches, and that his poor breaking slider won’t be a good match in starting. I can’t imagine him being able to maintain his velocity late into games either. His stuff plays up in a relief role, he needs to stay there.
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 23, 2008 9:38 PM | Link to this
Anders Lastly, I’m all for setting Heilman free.
Ah, man! He was always my favorite Mets’ pitcher!
By Roach
November 23, 2008 9:58 PM | Link to this
McFann,
Whats your predictions for McCann this upcoming season??
By Anders
November 23, 2008 9:59 PM | Link to this
Efrim
I agree with you on Heilman being under rated at times and he doesn’t appear to have enough stuff to start. I don’t think his whole “Charlie Brown” persona helps him. Right down to his big old round noggin. But all kidding aside he’s been a solid middle relief guy. I just think it’s gonna be tough for him to shake the last two years being that he was pretty central both times.
He’s definetly a guy who fits the change of scenery needed situation. The key is can they get value back now? If not, you hold him and trade mid season when relievers are always overpaid for in trade.
If the Mets have to go to 4 years so be it. K-Rod is 26. If you’re gonna cave on years might as well be a young guy.
By Roger
November 23, 2008 10:35 PM | Link to this
Just noticing that Tazawa’s industrial league tournament was scheduled to end today, the 23rd. Perhaps we’ll get at least some initial feedback soon?
Listening to the rumors, it sounds like the Red Sox waited until the last minute to come in and offer the most money. Gotta hope that the Braves get a chance to counter if necessary, and maybe being first into the bidding and having a strong reputation as a well-run organization with a great players’ manager will count for something.
By genegarbage
November 23, 2008 10:35 PM | Link to this
DOB- Check out The Felice Bros. & AA Bondy. You will dig. Also, watching the 5th season of The Wire. Holy s**- Marlo & Chris just popped Prop Joe. Omar is about to wreck shop. Best TV i have seen in a looooong time.
Indeed, Genegarbage
By chopper2chipper
November 23, 2008 11:42 PM | Link to this
One source has said that Tazawa has decided on the Red Sox (per Mlbtraderumors). Wonderful.
By sean
November 23, 2008 11:48 PM | Link to this
If anyone actually thought we’d outbid Boston for Tazawa, then I think you were being a little naive.
By Max 14
November 23, 2008 11:53 PM | Link to this
KC - I agree with you on that point, with Hudson being back, and JJ and Hanson with more experience, basically us not needing Peavy for as long as I mentioned. Hudson coming back was not in my train of thought at the time. Good point.
nolie- nice bit on the 200ft guitar cable to take out some of the bite. I haven’t heard that. Your right, serious tone, dual humbuckers with one at the neck. He also hardly ever used a pic, only his fingers.
DOB-I hear alot of great guitarist in songs that are mediocre or less. A bad song can take away from good guitar work, and I think a great song can make decent guitar work seem above average. That may be why alot of mainstream guitarist get a little more recognition. There song selections are pitched more toward norm. The Iceman had some good songs with great guitar work, so I agree he gets less recognition than he should, especially as an inovator. What about Brad Paisley? I’m not really a “new country” guy, I like all the outlaws; but he’s known for alot of quirky, comical songs, and less for his guitar work. I think he’s really good, its a shame to me that his song material doesn’t really support his real talent. Just an opinion.
Any Bama vs. Florida predictions?
By Deep Throat
November 24, 2008 12:19 AM | Link to this
If anyone actually thought we’d outbid Boston for Tazawa, then I think you were being a little naive.
Umm, your comment makes no sense. The Braves’ offer was reportedly six million as well. The Red Sox didn’t outbid the Braves. Get a grip.
The thing is, Tazawa’s fastball velocity is exaggerated, the Red Sox themselves say not to get caught up in the hype and he is not expected to even be in the majors till 2010. I don’t get why people are freaking out about this guy, he’s never going to be anything special. I think there is a weird bias to think of Japanese players as mystical or something, because people seem to really think they’re all better than proven MLB vets and they’re not. Give me Peavy, Burrnett or Lowe over Tazawa any day.
By sean
November 24, 2008 12:32 AM | Link to this
Well if their offer was the same as ours, then we didn’t OUTBID them did we? Reading comprehension, get into it.
By Roach
November 24, 2008 12:36 AM | Link to this
Max
Im gonna take Florida 45-21.
By Kevin
November 24, 2008 12:37 AM | Link to this
Max 14 I’ll take Florida and lay whatever points they are favored by. I go to UGA and I hate Florida more than anything but they are unstoppable right now. I don’t see any way that Bama beats them.
By chopper2chipper
November 24, 2008 12:45 AM | Link to this
If anyone actually thought we’d outbid Boston for Tazawa, then I think you were being a little naive.
There’s a difference between being naive and objectively dissapointed regarding a player’s potential business decision.
By BA
November 24, 2008 1:11 AM | Link to this
nolie, my high shcool garage band did a mean cover of an old Roy Buchanan tune- he was a helluva player.
By Deep Throat
November 24, 2008 1:14 AM | Link to this
I get the disappointment. The Braves were in on Peavy, looks right now like it is not happening. The Braves in on Tazawa, likely gone too. Dempster gone. Burnett and Lowe: not happening. It is frustrating to see the cheap-o Braves in on everyone and not get anyone because they don’t think they should have to pay one red cent or one fringe prospect more than they want too to get a great player and probably end up with Randy Wolf, Randy Johnson, Oliver Perez, Jon Garland or some other expensive, mediocre retread. But still, Tazawa is no big loss at all.
The offseason is NOT over though. Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no! Wren still has time to surprise us all, even if I highly doubt they’ll get any really good pitchers this year.
By Roach
November 24, 2008 1:23 AM | Link to this
I dont know what war you are talking about their deep but your way off.
Japan is what you meant.
By chopper2chipper
November 24, 2008 1:32 AM | Link to this
I personally believe that Peavy will still become a Brave. Towers has handled the situation pretty poorly, though. Not that he’s required to deal his ace right as soon as possible, but with the public’s knowledge of the payroll cut, his previous and often conflicting comments, and the reality that there’s really one or two teams out of his original five team “guidance” list with the pieces to play, etc.
It should be a fun off season at least!
By MattyRoss
November 24, 2008 1:37 AM | Link to this
Roach. Come on buddy. Animal House. Come on. Buddy.
By chipper 'n' dale
November 24, 2008 1:47 AM | Link to this
people seem discouraged by the current of rumors swirling around out there suggesting our offseason fantasies are just that. let me remake a suggestion i made earlier in the blog. heyman reports the braves may be interested in a trade for kevin millwood. what about a trade for millwood and nelson cruz? millwood’s salary is around 11 million. cruz isn’t up for arbitration until 2010 (he’s only 27).
this might not be the huge move people have hoped for, but it’s reasonable and would allow the braves to keep esco and kj, unlike the rumored trade propositions for peavy and ludwick (rangers need young, cheap pitching and bullpen help. we are deep in both). furthermore, this would leave the braves with plenty of money leftover to throw at burnett/lowe/insert pitcher.
while cruz might not be “proven”, every option out there for the braves has drawbacks. i don’t feel great about any of the free agents. cruz’s numbers are pretty comprable to ludwick besides ludwick’s year last year, when he was hitting softball pitches behind the most feared batter in baseball since bonds in his prime.
this seems like a great trade to me. it’s admittedly not a huge splash, but it’s cost for the braves is minimal. if it fails, we didn’t lose that much (unlike the tex deal).
By nolie
November 24, 2008 1:48 AM | Link to this
Back to TV shows. With The Wire and The Shield ending, what a bummer. I have also heard that Boston Legal is ending after this season. I really like it and will be unhappy to see it go as well. Much different type of show that those Crime Dramas, but one I am constantly chuckling at or being touched by. A great cast.
Max That was not me that originated the 200 ft cable comment, that was flange who is well versed on guitarists. I was aware that he used a long one but did not know it was that long. I copied that part of his post as an intro to my comment. Sorry for the confusion, but I don’t wanna take credit for flange’s knowledge
By Tomas
November 24, 2008 6:08 AM | Link to this
The Braves can’t get Lowe, Dempster, Tazawa, likely won’t go five years, and looks like that Peavy deal is going nowhere.
Wren offer Aj 5 yrs.
By Couch Tater
November 24, 2008 7:21 AM | Link to this
One of the Red Sox websites is reporting that Tazawa has indeed signed with the Sox. They source Nikkansports.com, but I guess michie-san will have to verify.
By Ryan
November 24, 2008 7:41 AM | Link to this
HEY DOB guess I was right on Tazawa, he isnt his own man, he, like all players, want to play for a constant contender and not a rebuilding team. I see the Braves are finding out what its like to sign players when your just not a good ball club. Now, maybe in two years this team will be back to where it was in the late 90’s but right now the Braves just are not contending and players see that. If it was all about money, players would come here, but its not. I love the BRAVES but we need to realize we will no contend this next year. Peavy, as much as you keep saing, isnt happening, AJ will go to the money without the 5th year, Lowe will be a Red Sox, Dempster already gone, Sheets too much like Hampton, Glavine not consistent, Smoltz bullpen player now, and the second tier of SP are just not #1 or #2 type pitchers. Please tell me where we are going to find two SP to fill the top two or first and third pitching spots on our roster?????????? Again, Tazawa to the Sox is all but over
By Ryan
November 24, 2008 7:45 AM | Link to this
DEEP THROAT, not to argue with you but its not about Tazawa being better than mlb vets, its about players not wanting to come to the BRAVES. Find me a player who would, money and contract the same, decide to come to Atlanta over the Mets, Yanks, Red Sox, Angels, Dodgers, Phils, etc…. Not too many players, because they see we are too far away from competing, and older players want to win and go out on top, not wait three years to do so.
By Deep Throat
November 24, 2008 8:32 AM | Link to this
I love the BRAVES but we need to realize we will no contend this next year. Peavy, as much as you keep saing, isnt happening,
Blah, blah, blah. There is no stopping the Braves, or any team in the NL East except for the Nationals, from winning the division next season. Some good starters and a LF power bat and I don’t see why exactly this team can’t compete. There is nothing to that except the overt pessimism many fans display because they’re either sour on the team due to a bad season, they’re a “prospect-hugger” who always (no matter what) thinks a team, any team, is five years away or they’re a fan or a rival team.
The Braves can absolutely get Peavy and/or Burnett. The problem is they would have to get away from their cheapskate ways and give the Padres a little more than they’d like or give Burnett a little more money than they’d like and who knows if they’ll do that. But you’re right if a team isn’t seen as a likely contender, they’ll usually (unless there is a hometown bias and there ain’t with A.J. Burnett and the Braves) have to pay a premium, but pay it and Burnett will no-doubt sign to play with the Braves.
By 18 Wheels of Love
November 24, 2008 9:09 AM | Link to this
Heard on XM Baseball this Morning that the A’s have offered 4/48m to Furcal.
By Efrim
November 24, 2008 9:17 AM | Link to this
Heard on XM Baseball this Morning that the A’s have offered 4/48m to Furcal.
Yikes.
By Random
November 24, 2008 9:29 AM | Link to this
Couch Tater: “One of the Red Sox websites is reporting that Tazawa has indeed signed with the Sox. They source Nikkansports.com, but I guess michie-san will have to verify.”
Here is a machine translation of what I figure is the pertinent Nikkan Sports article:
Tazawa’s first R Sox decided to negotiate
Nippon ENEOS major challenge pitcher Zyuniti Tazawa (22 = Yokohama dealer Oodaka) decision to join the Red Sox 23, said that, OK. Japanese professional baseball championship semi-final defeat from the beginning of the night, les forces and international scouting Craig Shipley, vice president of Kawasaki, who visited the camp, were the first to present conditions in the negotiations. The conditions before presenting the Mariners, Atlanta Braves baseball team, including three from the officially received the offer. The team was greeted with four others, including this month asking to put the other teams, even as early as Les forces in early December and is expected to formally exchange contracts.
Adult day after the last regular season game, Tazawa quickly under the LES to visit troops. 17:45 minutes for about 1 hour and 50 minutes, the first Tazawa negotiations also present. Immediately after joining the frame of 40 to enter a major contract, based on long-term development plan for a multi-year contract offer, the sources said.
Championships in Japan declined to comment on the vice president and international scout Shipley “good young man is polite. We had to present conditions. He is a good idea, will choose the Red Sox are hoping that today. This is not the only “occasionally smiled. During the negotiations, such as the environment and training facilities, including dedicated to the charm of Les military said.
Tazawa after the talks “a good discussion. I hope I have conveyed that. I get to evaluate the wind has been felt good,” with a good impression. At 8:00 am on this day too, was moved from Osaka to Tokyo. So far about the course “in consultation with Director,” and repeated words carefully, but at the time of departure “or a quick feel better,” the first time an early decision on its own. The three other teams receive from the present conditions, 10 teams have shown interest in the hearts of Tazawa one of the Army Les said.
Tazawa les forces, “the presence above the clouds,” Matsusaka, such as respect for the Japanese pitcher seniors enrolled, full-Japanese staff. 裏DZUKE history of the brand power and popularity, in addition to the actual terms of fostering pride and confidence. Director Hideaki Ookubo (39) joined to consistently raise the money or in terms of the contract is not alone in life. “What I really like him to develop a part of me?” And “the future of Tazawa,” said one of the best. Les forces to meet this requirement.
The day before Ma Rae military forces in the negotiations. International scouting director Bob Engel visited the military and the probe was also expected to present a major contract. Okubo said: “I’m through with enough enthusiasm.答EYOU I’m early,” he said. After 24 meetings overall and individual interviews will be Tazawa. During the month teams in the other to put a formal apology, early next month, “Tazawa les forces,” the official birthday.
[November 24, 2008 from 9:30 to space]
I figure “frame of 40” means the Sox’ 40-man roster. I’ll dig some more to find something that makes better sense.
NOTE: Another article from the same site dated 17:02 on 24 Nov reports a contract offer to Tazawa from the Texas Rangers.
By Couch Tater
November 24, 2008 9:45 AM | Link to this
Thanks, Random. I think.
By Random
November 24, 2008 9:48 AM | Link to this
Here’s another machine translation of the same NikkanSports.com article:
It decided in the Tazawa first negotiation R socks
The new Nippon Oil Co., Ltd. the ENEOS which you measure challenges Tazawa Junichi pitcher (the 22= Yokohama trade large high) lead socks setting the intention which enters on the 23rd, you understood. One dawn, [kureigu] [shipuri] vice president and the international scouts of the [re] troop visited the lodging together place of Kawasaki city from society member baseball Japanese championship semifinal retreat, bidding did in beginning negotiation. Also [marinazu] presented condition to immediately before, received proper form offer from 3 clubs which include Braves. If it includes the other 4 clubs which receive greeting, and inserts notice into other club during this month and is quick it is the possibility that formal contract is exchanged with the [re] troop in the beginning of December.
The next day which finishes society member last regular game, to Tazawa’s origin the [re] troop visited in the swift attack. 5:45 PM from over approximately 1 hour 50 minutes, also Tazawa sitting together, beginning negotiation. After the joining an organization it is seen that the plural year contracts which are based on long-term rearing plan in addition to the measure contract which enters into the same 40 human frameworks, were presented.
In the Japanese championship [shipuri] vice president and the international scout who refrained from comment “are the polite good youth. It had being able to point to bidding. He thinking well, you expect that the lead socks are chosen. That today you can say, it showed the smiling face just this” the time the time. While negotiating including the environmental aspect and the training facility etc, it explained the charm of the [re] troop enthusiastically.
Tazawa who finishes negotiation called and “the discussion was possible. We want coming, was transmitted. It was good being felt, that it has had appraising in such wind,” that it had good impression. Of this day past 8 o’clock in the morning, it moved to Tokyo from Osaka. So far concerning course “after supervision consulting”, with repeatedly prudent word it started, but the case of starting “you think as the kana whose quicker one is good”, that, you conveyed the idea early of deciding for the first time personally. Already, 10 clubs showed interest, e.g., bidding is received from 3 clubs, but Tazawa’s heart was decided [re] in troops 1.
As for the [re] troop Tazawa is on the register “existence on the cloud” the senior pitcher of Japanese such as Matuzaka who is respected, also the Japanese staff is complete. You are proud of the result and self-confidence in addition to the brand power which is supported in history and popularity, in regard to the rearing aspect. The Ookubo Hideaki director (39) being consistent, those where you list to joining an organization condition are not just the money and the number of contract years. “That the part which you say whether that is grown truly in some wind” and, “Tazawa’s future” was listed most. The [re] troop coincides to this condition.
The [ma] troop negotiated this day immediately before the [re] troop. Department Manager hob Engel international scout visits, is seen that the [bu] troop measure contract was presented similarly. The Ookubo supervision “being transmitted sufficiently, increases enthusiasm. Having tried to answer ahead of time, it increases”, you say. As for 24 days after the entire meeting the schedule which does Tazawa and private surface talks. Inserting notice also during this month formally in other club, “Tazawa of the [re] troop” is born formally in the next month beginning.
2008年11月24日9時30分 紙面から
It seems apparent that “Les military”, “[re] troop”, etc refer to the Red Sox. (“[ma] troop” and “[bu] troop” probably refer to the Mariners and Braves.)
By Voice from the past
November 24, 2008 9:51 AM | Link to this
One of the Red Sox websites is reporting that Tazawa has indeed signed with the Sox. They source Nikkansports.com, but I guess michie-san will have to verify.
The headline reads “Red Sox Sign Junichi Tazawa”, but the article says that Tazawa has settled on Boston and will sign in December. Very different…
http://firebrandal.com/2008/11/24/red-sox-sign-junichi-tazawa.html
By 18 Wheels of Love
November 24, 2008 9:56 AM | Link to this
Strangely enough, the show on XM this morning also mentioned the Mets making an offer to Furcal, which either means they are wanting to put him at 2B or that the report is completely bogus. The host, Holden Kushner did reference some Spanish newspaper report…can’t remember the name. Furcal at 2B and leading off??? That’s a different angle.
By Lew
November 24, 2008 9:56 AM | Link to this
I’m just not overly enthused about re-acquiring Millwood. I’m thinking he’s yet another case of Braves’ fans wanting to pick someone up based on his past with the Braves. Go look up the Dude’s numbers-they aren’t all that impressive since he won the AL ERA Crown four years back.
In the past five seasons, he’s pitched over 200IP once-three years ago. The last two seasons it’s been 174 and 162-decent, but we need someone who will give us 200+ to help save the pen, NOT someone whose numbers are on the decline.
Millwood’s ERA has been atrocious since the Fluke Award winning year, ranging from the mid 4’s to the 5 run a game level. Yes, I’m fully aware he has been pitching in Texas, but at age 35, I’m just not convinced he will show anything like what he used to be. Let’s keep looking. Sentiment is wonderful, but……..
By DAP
November 24, 2008 9:59 AM | Link to this
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
did you really just type that?
By Efrim
November 24, 2008 9:59 AM | Link to this
Furcal received an offer from the Mets to play second base? Wow.
By Couch Tater
November 24, 2008 10:06 AM | Link to this
Landom Thanks again for your most diligent blog wind!
By Lew
November 24, 2008 10:06 AM | Link to this
I should also add that while Millwood does have a decent K to BB rate, he still strikes out less far than a batter per inning and his WHIP is rising and not good. 200+ hits given up in well less than 200 IP just isn’t all that great. Given that he will make over $11 mil this year, we can do better.
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 24, 2008 10:07 AM | Link to this
Roach—
My predictions for Mac…hmm…
I think his defense will be much better…obviously, I’d love it if he does what Kendall did this past season—catch 40% of the base runners. But I’d be very happy with, oh say…30%.
Last year around this time, I was saying that his ‘08 defense would be better than his ‘07 defense…then 93 men stole off him and our pitchers. But I really believe that he will be better in ‘09. His off-season work shows that he means business.
Now offense…I’d definitely take another year like this year, but I’ll take it a step further. His RBI number should be up. (Let’s hope if he ever leads the team in RBI again, it will be with more than 87.) He should be able to get back to 90 RBI.
His AVG will be around .300…he’s a .300 hitter for sure. Last year when people were wondering whether the “real McCann” was the .333 hitter or the .270 hitter, I, among others, said he was somewhere in between. See? Amid all that immaturity I did say something worthwhile.
I think a .370 OBP and a .520+ SLG are reasonable predictions, and definitely exceptable from a catcher (that’s not demeaning, BTW).
40+ doubles…20-some-odd homers…90 RBI…that’d be delicious.
It is hard to make predictions for a catcher, because so much cann happen to them over the course of the year—course, that cann be said for any player, though not quite on the same scale. But if Mac has a relatively heathy season, I think it’s not too ridiculous to say:
500 AB—152 H—43 2B—2 3B (that one’s N Owl’s)—25 homers—94 RBI—57 BB—69 SO—5 HBP—3 SF—.548 SLG—.379 OBP
Some of those numbers I just pulled off the top of my head. But hey, if they are even close to accurate, I get a share of the credit!
; )
By 18 Wheels of Love
November 24, 2008 10:07 AM | Link to this
DAP, you might have just lost your posting priviledges on this forum.
By Lew
November 24, 2008 10:08 AM | Link to this
DAP-Absolutely. Pearl Harbor, Poland.
By Random
November 24, 2008 10:08 AM | Link to this
I believe the NikkanSports.com article is reporting that the Red Sox have simply made an offer.
Here is an article from Kyodo News about 6 hours ago:
Baseball: Tazawa gets offer from Rangers, nearing decision
TOKYO, Nov. 24 KYODO
Highly regarded Japanese amateur pitcher Junichi Tazawa received a lucrative offer from the Texas Rangers on Monday and is expected to decide on his future shortly, his manager said.
”Now that these offers are on the table, a conclusion will be reached in three or four days,” Hideaki Okubo, manager of Tazawa’s Nippon Oil team, said after talks with the Rangers, which followed recent meetings with the Atlanta Braves, Boston Red Sox and Seattle Mariners.
(You need a subscription for any more.)
By GermanBravesFan
November 24, 2008 10:10 AM | Link to this
We bombed Pearl Harbor???????
By Steve from OH
November 24, 2008 10:11 AM | Link to this
flange, e-mail has been sent.
By Lew
November 24, 2008 10:16 AM | Link to this
Well, it looks like what I’ve been saying all along about not getting Furcal for $10 mil per season is spot on. The A’s offer certainly proves that. However, the Mets’ willingness to sign him for 2B supports my other contention that he will miss significant time due to injury yet again. The Mets have a positively unreal proclivity for signing players that miss lots of time due to injury.
By DAP
November 24, 2008 10:20 AM | Link to this
lew Pearl Harbor, Poland.
never heard of it. i thought at first he was joking. was i right?
18 wheels try and stop me!
By Efrim
November 24, 2008 10:31 AM | Link to this
Reyes, Furcal, Wright, Beltran, Delgado would be some 1-5 in the batting order. I hope he doesn’t sign with them.
By flange1
November 24, 2008 10:31 AM | Link to this
Steve from OH,
Received and back at you!
By GermanBravesFan
November 24, 2008 10:32 AM | Link to this
DAP… I think it’s Pearl Harbor, France… Lew was just kidding about Poland.
By Lew
November 24, 2008 10:33 AM | Link to this
DAP-Yeah-It’s right next to Guadalcanal in the Ukraine.
By Eware
November 24, 2008 10:36 AM | Link to this
It’s amazing how so many people haven’t heard one of the greatest lines in cinematic history….
I would recommend you run to Blockbuster and rent Animal House.
And for those that have seen the film, I recommend that you run to Blockbuster and rent Animal House.
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 24, 2008 10:52 AM | Link to this
Boy…you learn something new every day. All this time I thought the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor…
Oh, and in my last post, I forgot one little thing: a .304 AVG.
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 24, 2008 10:54 AM | Link to this
Efrim Reyes, Furcal, Wright, Beltran, Delgado would be some 1-5 in the batting order.
Good VORP no…too many stolen bases in that group!
Though hopefully we won’t dread that quite as much in ‘09.
By DAP
November 24, 2008 10:58 AM | Link to this
im getting the sense that im due for a “your and idiot”….?
By flange1
November 24, 2008 11:01 AM | Link to this
Efrim,
I can’t see Furcal agreeing to play 2B!
If he is smart, he will drag his feet at least through Thanksgiving.
FW and Towers need to decide what they want to do on Peavy!
I know their are other SS options out besides Furcal, but to me he makes the most sense because he is a leadoff hitter the Braves need.
By flange1
November 24, 2008 11:04 AM | Link to this
Steve from OH,
My response to you got bounced.
Can you send your address to that email address and I will mail you those tracks?
Thanks
By Lew
November 24, 2008 11:04 AM | Link to this
The Japanese? Why were they in Poland?
By David O'Brien
November 24, 2008 11:06 AM | Link to this
DeepThroat, good post at 8:32 a.m.
I’ll get going on a new blog now, folks. Should be up around noonish (my noon is your 2 p.m. … kidding)
By lexbrave
November 24, 2008 11:10 AM | Link to this
heck for 4/48 if i were wren i’d go ahead and sign furcal, and if he doesn’t trade escobar in a deal for peavy then just move him to 2nd full time and either trade kelly for ludwick, somebody else, or move him to left field.
By Efrim
November 24, 2008 11:13 AM | Link to this
Flange1
I agree that Towers and FW need to get going on Peavy. I can’t imagine Wren would want this to drag out to the winter meetings.
I don’t see Furcal signing on with the Mets to play second base either. I liked the idea of Furcal on the Braves until i saw that the A’s offered him 4 years and 48 million. That is crazy. I was thinking the Braves could get him for 3 years and 42 million.
By Steve from OH
November 24, 2008 11:15 AM | Link to this
flange, you have another email.
By Voice from the past
November 24, 2008 11:16 AM | Link to this
The Japanese? Why were they in Poland?
Kielbasa…why else?
By David O'Brien
November 24, 2008 11:17 AM | Link to this
Eware, I was thinking the same thing.
By Braveheart
November 24, 2008 11:18 AM | Link to this
It’s amazing how so many people haven’t heard one of the greatest lines in cinematic history…. I would recommend you run to Blockbuster and rent Animal House. And for those that have seen the film, I recommend that you run to Blockbuster and rent Animal House.
It’s shameful that so many missed the Animal House quote ………… but only because it’s a pop culture reference that you old f$%@kers always love bringing up.
It’s not shameful though that so many don’t watch Animal House. That is one of the most overrated movies of all time. Does anyone younger than 38 or older than 55 love that movie? Seriously? It has always struck me as a movie of a certain cultural mood in a certain time and place. Every time I watch it without laughing once I tell myself I guess it’s one of those things that you just “had to be there” to get it. Best I can guess you had to be between the age of 10 and 25 at the time the movie was released. Otherwise, it’s just an outdated movie. Hasn’t held up. Sorry, oldtimers. Animal House didn’t turn out to be the timeless comedy classic you all thought it was at the time. Caddyshack is ridiculously overrated as well. Like watching an old Cheers episode. You wonder how we ever thought that hilarious.
By Lew
November 24, 2008 11:24 AM | Link to this
Efrim-3 years for $42 Mil? With Furcal’s 150 missed games in the past two seasons, no way I would pay anywhere near $14 mil a year for him. I didn’t think he was worth $10 mil a season.
By Original Jon
November 24, 2008 11:29 AM | Link to this
DOB What are the chances that the Braves select a pitcher in the Rule V Draft, someone like Kei Igawa? Didnt the Braves have interest in him at some point two years ago before he signed with the Yanks?
By Lew
November 24, 2008 11:34 AM | Link to this
Braveheart-To answer your question-I’m 57. The movie takes place in a time where most of we “Old Farts” were in elementary or Junior High School, so I’m not certain your argument actually holds water. The movie is timeless juvenile comedy, with an excellent cast of comedic talent.
In addition, the movie producers originally approached the Powers That Be at UGA to film the movie there. They refused, citing the scene where it is apparent that a Professor (Donald Sutherland) is sleeping with one of his students. The UGA brass decided that was behavior that was not happening at UGA (though the Art Department, at the very least, was aware that it WAS happening).
The Movie is a Cultural Icon. No one is claiming that it is great Dramatic Cinema or Academy Award Worthy, but it was damned funny and should transcend age or era, for anyone who went to college and was aware of the party nature of Fraternities and the isolation of those not considered “A list”.
Hell-the movie is worthwhile, if for nothing else, than for the quote on the Founder’s statue at the beginning of the movie “Knowledge is Good”. Sounds quite academic to me.
By Original Jon
November 24, 2008 11:35 AM | Link to this
Or how about someone like Eduardo Morlan from the Rule V?
By flange1
November 24, 2008 11:35 AM | Link to this
Dang Braveheart,
thanks for making us in that age group feel older than the hills!!! And with bad taste to boot!
By Efrim
November 24, 2008 11:36 AM | Link to this
Lew
Efrim-3 years for $42 Mil? With Furcal’s 150 missed games in the past two seasons, no way I would pay anywhere near $14 mil a year for him. I didn’t think he was worth $10 mil a season.
Unfortunately, he’ll get more than that. Considering his back problems, it’s a risky signing. But he is easily the best SS on the market. Orlando Cabrera can’t hit anymore and Edgar Renteria can’t play defense anymore. Not to mention, I expect Cabrera to get a 3 year offer worth close to 30 million. I’d rather pay Furcal all of that money than to have Cabrera at short. Makes you really appreciate having a cheap option like Yunel Escobar. I hope he isn’t apart of any potential Peavy deal, but I’m not going to hold my breath.
By Braveheart
November 24, 2008 11:36 AM | Link to this
I don’t see Furcal signing on with the Mets to play second base either. I liked the idea of Furcal on the Braves until i saw that the A’s offered him 4 years and 48 million. That is crazy. I was thinking the Braves could get him for 3 years and 42 million.
Actually, 4 years, $48 mil is much more team friendly contract than 3 years, $42 million. You’d have him at $6 mil in the fourth season in 2012 at a time when the average FA should be receiving between $12.5 to $13 million dollars. You’d have him for half that.
4 years, $48 mil over the next four seasons is equivalent to thinking he needs to be worth about an average of 22.5 runs a season above replacement in order to justify the contract.
3 years, $42 million is equivalent to thinking he needs to be worth about an average of 27.5 runs above replacement in order to justify the contract.
A 5 run difference a season doesn’t sound like much but it is the equivalent of an average of 22 points of ops or 15 points of obp or 27 points of slg every season. I’d rather minimize my risk be adding a fourth season at an extra $6 mil.
By ncscoots
November 24, 2008 11:41 AM | Link to this
Braveheart, I consider you one of my buds here on the blog, but, my God, man, you’ve ripped Daniel Day Lewis and Animal House in one short time-frame, LOL. Friendship can withstand only so many vicissitudes before one begins to look askance at the friend. :-)
By Eware
November 24, 2008 11:44 AM | Link to this
Braveheart - I’m 27 years old. I love the movie. Great lines, great actors. It probably has to do with your frame of reference.
Come on, the scene in the bar with Otis Day doesn’t make you smile a little….???
By Efrim
November 24, 2008 11:45 AM | Link to this
Braveheart
I understand the money part of it.
It’s the years. The bad back of Furcal worries me. Bad back can lead to poor defense, which is obviously one of his strong suits. A four year contract would be difficult for me to stomach.
By Can This Be True
November 24, 2008 11:52 AM | Link to this
Comments, Vermonters? Or is that Vermonteers?
From the Ironic Times:
CDC: Burlington, Vermont Has Highest Percentage Who Say They’re Healthy Also highest percentage who say they’re not in denial.
By DAP
November 24, 2008 11:53 AM | Link to this
braveheart so im off the hook? i guess i can be reinstated to the blog.
By ugacpa02
November 24, 2008 11:53 AM | Link to this
I was not born when Animal House came out and I consider it the greatest comedy of all time.
By Braveheart
November 24, 2008 11:55 AM | Link to this
Sorry, Scoots, I like overactors and outdated comedies like you like slap hitting speedsters.
By Voice from the past
November 24, 2008 12:04 PM | Link to this
Can we dance wif yo dates?
By Compelled to make random Animal House quotes
November 24, 2008 12:08 PM | Link to this
Clorette De Pasto: Dad! Mom, Dad, this is Larry Kroger. The boy who molested me last month. We have to get married.
By Lew
November 24, 2008 12:11 PM | Link to this
Can This Be True-Maybe, most of Burlington ( more than half of the Vermont population) are students at UVM-likely to be in better shape than most of any population.
Apparently Vermont will also be famous (if the final first season episode of True Blood is correct) will be the first state to legalize Human/Vampire marriage. It’s a unique place, believe me.
Braveheart-You mean outdated like Bama’s consistent refusal to hire anyone to coach their football team that didn’t have face time with Bear Bryant? Times coming soon that your only options will be coaches who went to school with the Bear’s Grandchildren. Now THAT’S dated.
By Lew
November 24, 2008 12:13 PM | Link to this
Efrim-I agree Furcal will make that much. I’ve claimed all along he would. I just think that whoever spends that kind of money on him are damn fools-regardless whether or not he’s the best FA option. Trade for someone younger and less injury prone.
By Compelled to make random Animal House quotes
November 24, 2008 12:14 PM | Link to this
Robert Hoover: Uhhh. Larry Kroger? All in favor? Deltas: Who cares? Yeah! We need the dues. Robert Hoover: Good. Larry Kroger is now pledged to Delta Tau Chi.
By Compelled to make random Animal House quotes
November 24, 2008 12:17 PM | Link to this
Otter: Ladies and gentlemen, I’ll be brief. The issue here is not whether we broke a few rules or took a few liberties with our female party guests — we did. But you can’t hold a whole fraternity responsible for the behavior of a few sick, perverted individuals. For if you do, then shouldn’t we blame the whole fraternity system? And if the whole fraternity system is guilty, then isn’t this an indictment of our educational institutions in general? I put it to you, Greg … isn’t this an indictment of our entire American society? Well, you can do what you want to us, but we’re not going to sit here and listen to you badmouth the United States of America! Gentlemen!
By Compelled to make random Animal House quotes
November 24, 2008 12:18 PM | Link to this
Bluto: My advice to you is to start drinking heavily. Otter: Better listen to him, Flounder. He’s pre-med.
By David O'Brien
November 24, 2008 12:19 PM | Link to this
Braveheart, on a scale of dubiousness (aka, the WTF? Scale), your criticism of Animal House far surpasses the questionable critique of Daniel Day-Lewis. At least with Day-Lewis, I could acknowledge you had a point, though I disagree with your assessment that he’s a ham.
With Animal House, your referring to it as one of the most overated movies of all time is, in my opinion, beyond ridiculous. Just absurd. Some things are timeless, my man. And to not recognize that is a bit sad. Seriously.
Not everything in popular culture should be considered outdated by those who came along after the movie or music or whatever was produced. To not see the genius in Animal House … That’s staggering.
In all seriousness, you might just be the first highly intelligent person (at least with a sense of humor) that I’ve EVER encountered who dismissed Animal House. At least you did so with an over-the-top “most overrated of all time” type of assessment that is so far off the tracks as to not warrant sincere debate.
By Compelled to make random Animal House quotes
November 24, 2008 12:20 PM | Link to this
Bluto: Seven years of college down the drain. Might as well join the [edit]ing Peace Corps.
By David O'Brien
November 24, 2008 12:24 PM | Link to this
National Lampoon’s Animal House
BY ROGER EBERT / January 1, 1978
“What we need right now,” Otter tells his fraternity brothers, “is a stupid, futile gesture on someone’s part.” And no fraternity on campus — on any campus — is better qualified to provide such a gesture than the Deltas. They have the title role in “National Lampoon’s Animal House,” which remembers all the way back to 1962, when college was simpler, beer was cheaper, and girls were harder to seduce.
The movie is vulgar, raunchy, ribald, and occasionally scatological. It is also the funniest comedy since Mel Brooks made “The Producers.”
“Animal House” is funny for some of the same reasons the National Lampoon is funny (and Second City and “Saturday Night Live” are funny): Because it finds some kind of precarious balance between insanity and accuracy, between cheerfully wretched excess and an ability to reproduce the most revealing nuances of human behavior. In one sense there has never been a campus like this movie’s Faber University, which was apparently founded by the lead pencil tycoon and has as its motto “Knowledge is Good.” In another sense, Faber University is a microcosm of … I was going to say our society, but why get serious? Let someone else discuss the symbolism of Bluto’s ability to crush a beer can against his forehead.
Bluto is, of course, the most animalistic of the Deltas. He’s played by John Belushi, and the performance is all the more remarkable because Bluto has hardly any dialogue. He isn’t a talker, he’s an event. His best scenes are played in silence (as when he lasciviously scales a ladder to peek at a sorority pillow fight).
Bluto and his brothers are engaged in a holding action against civilization. They are in favor of beer, women, song, motorcycles, Playboy centerfolds, and making rude noises. They are opposed to studying, serious thought, the Dean, the regulations governing fraternities, and, most especially, the disgusting behavior of the Omegas — a house so respectable it has even given an ROTC commander to the world.
The movie was written by National Lampoon contributors (including Harold Ramis, who was in Second City at the same time Belushi was), and was directed by John Landis. It’s like an end run around Hollywood’s traditional notions of comedy. It’s anarchic, messy, and filled with energy. It assaults us. Part of the movie’s impact comes from its sheer level of manic energy: When beer kegs and Hell’s Angels come bursting through the windows of the Delta House, the anarchy is infectious. But the movie’s better made (and better acted) than we might at first realize. It takes skill to create this sort of comic pitch, and the movie’s filled with characters that are sketched a little more absorbingly than they had to be, and acted with perception.
For example: Tim Matheson, as Otter, the ladies’ man, achieves a kind of grace in his obsession. John Vernon, as the Dean of Students, has a blue-eyed, rulebook hatefulness that’s inspired. Verna Bloom, as his dipsomaniacal wife, has just the right balance of cynicism and desperation. Donald Sutherland, a paranoic early sixties pothead, nods solemnly at sophomoric truisms and admits he’s as bored by Milton as everyone else.
And stalking through everything is Bluto, almost a natural force: He lusts, he thirsts, he consumes cafeterias full of food, and he pours an entire fifth of Jack Daniel’s into his mouth, belches, and observes, “Thanks. I needed that.” He has, as I suggested, little dialogue. But it is telling. When the Delta House is kicked off campus and the Deltas are thrown out of school, he makes, in a moment of silence, a philosophical observation: “Seven years down the drain.” What the situation requires, of course, is a stupid, futile gesture on someone’s part.
By Braveheart
November 24, 2008 12:25 PM | Link to this
Braveheart-You mean outdated like Bama’s consistent refusal to hire anyone to coach their football team that didn’t have face time with Bear Bryant? Times coming soon that your only options will be coaches who went to school with the Bear’s Grandchildren. Now THAT’S dated.
No, Lew, by dated, I meant like all of the excuses UGA fans make for why Mark Richt doesn’t have the killer instinct needed to win a national championship.
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 24, 2008 12:26 PM | Link to this
Should be up around noonish (my noon is your 2 p.m. … kidding)
My orthodontist’s 5 minutes was my 10 minutes…not kidding.
By Compelled to make random Animal House quotes
November 24, 2008 12:26 PM | Link to this
Dean Wormer: The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.
By Lew
November 24, 2008 12:28 PM | Link to this
As for outdated comedians. I vote for Jerry Lewis-even if he is popular in Pearl Harbor, France.
By Voice from the past
November 24, 2008 12:28 PM | Link to this
Is DOB placing Braveheart on Double Secret Probation?
By Voice from the past
November 24, 2008 12:30 PM | Link to this
“What we need right now,” Otter tells his fraternity brothers, “is a stupid, futile gesture on someone’s part.”
It dawns on me… isn’t that what most of us are proposing from the Braves?
By David O'Brien
November 24, 2008 12:30 PM | Link to this
Otter: Flounder, I am appointing you pledge representative to the social committee.
Flounder: Gee Otter, thanks. What do I have to do?
Otter: It means you have to drive us to the Food King.
By WordWizardHobo
November 24, 2008 12:37 PM | Link to this
I do love Animal House, but it is just weird watching it now. Whenever I see Tim Matheson, all I can think about is him being the Vice President on the West Wing. He was also the voice of Johnny Quest in the cartoons.
By Lee in S GA
November 24, 2008 12:43 PM | Link to this
Animal House alumni’s - every time I see Mark Metcalf on multiple T.V. shows, including the Maestro on “Seinfeld” I can’t help but think of ” Neidermeyer” and the same of Peter Riegert as “Boon” also another guess star on “Seinfeld”.
By Lew
November 24, 2008 12:44 PM | Link to this
Braveheart-Dude, I always looked at Bama as a “Knowledge is Good” type of place. As for beating Georgia this year-what are you Anders now, where beating Georgia (like the Mets coming in in front of the Braves) makes your whole season?
Hey-if nothing else, we broke the Vince Dooley tradition long ago. Bama might try it sometime with the Bear Bryant way of life. Then they might actually do something other than beating Georgia once every five or six times they play each other.
It might give you more time for appreciation of comic genius and Dramatic excellence if you weren’t continually studying the Bear’s security tapes to see if prospective coaches spent at least a minute and a half with the Dude.
By Wayne (Micah Owings for LF)
November 24, 2008 12:48 PM | Link to this
I must admit that I have never watched Animal House. Seen bits and pieces, but never sat down to watch it from start to finish.
My loss, I suppose…
By TennesseePaul
November 24, 2008 12:48 PM | Link to this
As for beating Georgia this year-what are you Anders now, where beating Georgia (like the Mets coming in in front of the Braves) makes your whole season?
Sounds like a premise I live by in the regular season. Braves may lose, but if they bet the Mets I’m happy.
By bsj
November 24, 2008 12:51 PM | Link to this
Braveheart, was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
By bsj
November 24, 2008 12:51 PM | Link to this
I’ll let him go. He’s on a roll.
By bsj
November 24, 2008 12:55 PM | Link to this
I’m trying hard to think of a piece of Animal House that I didn’t think was hilarious. Niedermeyer was brilliant.
Bluto on the stairs, that look on his face as the dude plays the sappy song on the guitar… Priceless.
By David O'Brien
November 24, 2008 12:59 PM | Link to this
s DOB placing Braveheart on Double Secret Probation?Voice from the Past
Absolutely not. As I said, defending (or debating) the merits of Animal House is unnecessary. It’d be like debating whether Led Zep was a good rock band (oh, wait, a certain contrarian might be ready to jump in and call that group “overrated” by old folks, too…)
By bsj
November 24, 2008 1:00 PM | Link to this
Wayne, “Yikes”. I’ve got a friend who’s on to me about not seeing Shakes the Clown, but I can’t imagine what he’d do if I said I hadn’t seen Animal House. In some ways, seeing it now will make you appreciate how bad the copy-cat stuff is. The closest that comes to it probably was Old Skool.
Of course, all of this has to have the context of the time it came out. Nothing else like it had been done before.
By bsj
November 24, 2008 1:05 PM | Link to this
Braveheart, my advice to you is to start drinking heavily.
By Judge Smails (raindawg722)
November 24, 2008 1:05 PM | Link to this
Judge Smails: You know, despite what happened, I’m still convinced that you have many fine qualities. I think you can still become a gentleman someday if you understand and abide by the rules of decent society. There’s a lot of…well, badness in the world today. I see it in court every day. I’ve sentenced boys younger than you to the gas chamber. I didn’t want to do it- I felt I owed it to them. The most important decision you can make right now is what you stand for- goodness…or badness.
By Random
November 24, 2008 1:05 PM | Link to this
I’m with Braveheart on Animal House — not funny.
(And I was a student at UGA when it came out.)
By bsj
November 24, 2008 1:08 PM | Link to this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uepFO4psgKE
By Braveheart
November 24, 2008 1:09 PM | Link to this
Braveheart-Dude, I always looked at Bama as a “Knowledge is Good” type of place. As for beating Georgia this year-what are you Anders now, where beating Georgia (like the Mets coming in in front of the Braves) makes your whole season?
Nah, dude, I really don’t care about the UGA win this season. Too worried about Auburn, Florida and the National Championship game to care about some victory over a two loss 15th ranked team two months ago (a team, mind you, that our team has zero rivalry with because Bama has 12 national championships to UGA’s 4).
Also, unlike Anders, I will admit to being a UGA fan myself so long as they’re not going against Bama…… Anders ain’t man enough to admit how much of a Braves fan he really is. Still too much in denial
Hey-if nothing else, we broke the Vince Dooley tradition long ago. Bama might try it sometime with the Bear Bryant way of life. Then they might actually do something other than beating Georgia once every five or six times they play each other.
Well, you can understand why UGA broke away from the Dooley tradition so fast ….. dude won only 1 national championship in 25 years ……. THE BEAR won 6 national championships in his 25 years …. that made it just a little bit harder to break away.
By bsj
November 24, 2008 1:10 PM | Link to this
It’s clear we’re Jonesin’ for Braves news…
By 1957 Braves Fan
November 24, 2008 1:11 PM | Link to this
Is that a pledge pin on your chest?
By bsj
November 24, 2008 1:11 PM | Link to this
“You mind if we dance with yo’ dates?”
“Otis! My man!”
By nolie
November 24, 2008 1:12 PM | Link to this
I’m 63 and I’ve never thought Animal House was all that special, but I do at least chuckle a few times when I watch it.
By bsj
November 24, 2008 1:22 PM | Link to this
sigh To each his own, I guess.
By bsj
November 24, 2008 1:23 PM | Link to this
1957 Braves Fan, did you say this out loud with the proper amount of spit?
By Bubdylan
November 24, 2008 1:25 PM | Link to this
Now we’re bloggin!
By Braveheart
November 24, 2008 1:29 PM | Link to this
Absolutely not. As I said, defending (or debating) the merits of Animal House is unnecessary. It’d be like debating whether Led Zep was a good rock band (oh, wait, a certain contrarian might be ready to jump in and call that group “overrated” by old folks, too…)
Now, I’d say that someone who claims Led Zep is overrated needs to be shot in the head but there’d be no point to it because they’re already braindead…… they are the very definition of timeless, they get better as more time goes by and get better with each new listen …. there are just so many layers to their music
Animal House, however? Sorry, it’s a dated snoozefest … of a time and place I wasn’t a part of …… Fast Times at Ridgemont High was a better, funnier and more timeless movie to me ….. Given the choice, I’ll watch Dazed and Confused every time over Animal House….. but that’s just me
By Efrim
November 24, 2008 1:35 PM | Link to this
I’ll watch Dazed and Confused every time over Animal House….. but that’s just me
I agree.
By bsj
November 24, 2008 1:38 PM | Link to this
*dated snoozefest *
”.. He’s dead, Jim.”
By Steve from OH
November 24, 2008 1:40 PM | Link to this
Bowman has a new mailbag up on the official site, with plenty of good rumors in it. He suggests the Braves have had talks about Jermaine Dye, and that the Braves have inquired (many times, according to Bowman) on Cain, Harang and Halladay but have been told that they’re not available. He also suggests the Braves are heavily bidding on Burnett and Lowe.
By BravesFanInRockies
November 24, 2008 1:53 PM | Link to this
As for Animal House, there’s Tom Hulse … and Kevin “All is well!!” Bacon and Bruce McGill as “D-Day” — who’s now relegated to playing corporate bad guys in “Law & Order”-like shows. Who woulda thunk it in 1978?
By bsj
November 24, 2008 1:55 PM | Link to this
Dye is intriguing. Mags would be great, though I can’t imagine the Braves plunking down that kind of cash.
By bsj
November 24, 2008 2:01 PM | Link to this
Phoebe Cates back in the day could keep a young man up at night for sure.
By 1957 Braves Fan
November 24, 2008 2:02 PM | Link to this
May I have ten thousand marbles please?
By TennesseePaul
November 24, 2008 2:04 PM | Link to this
Animal House is a classic, no doubt. But as far as classic comedies go there are others I’d rather watch. But, that doesn’t subtract from some of the most priceless lines in film. Animal House represents a time when National Lampoon’s was actually funny and relevant. Today’s tripe isn’t worth the time. It’s almost like those guys are just trying to relive the glory days.
I drove by their headquarters the other night on the way to some brilliantly good Indian food in LA. It’s a rather unassuming building.
By Wayne (Micah Owings for LF)
November 24, 2008 2:08 PM | Link to this
Ordonez, Dye, Ryan Freel. No love yet for my man Freel???
:-)
By Voice from the past
November 24, 2008 2:12 PM | Link to this
Phoebe Cates back in the day could keep a young man up at night for sure.
Interesting choice of words…
…and yes, she could.
By STRETCH
November 24, 2008 2:20 PM | Link to this
Dont everyone get your hopes up. I havent. Since the end of the 07 season, they keep saying, “we are going to spend more money”, well….where is it?
By David O'Brien
November 24, 2008 2:20 PM | Link to this
Oops. Like I said, noon is sometimes 2 p.m….
NEW BLOGGAGE
By Wayne (Micah Owings for LF)
November 24, 2008 2:21 PM | Link to this
Every year my family puts up our Christmas tree on the day after Thanksgiving. While trimming the tree, “Christmas Vacation” is playing on the DVD.
“Clark, I want you to get yourself something.(wink and click)..real nice.”
By Original Jon
November 24, 2008 2:28 PM | Link to this
Dave, cant see the new bloggage!!!
By Eddie T.
November 24, 2008 3:13 PM | Link to this
What about this trade:
Jeff Francoeur for Edwin Jackson (SP-Tampa Bay). They get a young/athletic everyday RF for someone who will be losing his 5 spot to David Price. We get a young/athletic SP who had 14 wins last year and throws major HEAT!!!
By f.n. hale
November 24, 2008 3:15 PM | Link to this
Lew Tinsley Ellis plays sax? Didn’t he play guitar (and occasionally keyboards) with an Atlanta group called Eric Quincy Tate back in the early 70’s or is my senility showing?
By Max 14
November 24, 2008 5:46 PM | Link to this
Roach & Kevin - thanks for the SEC championship predictions. I’m a Bama fan and was looking for an unbiased view, and I know there are alot of Georgia fans here. UF looks pretty tough right now, but after watching the Sooners and Texas Tech; I think anything could happen. I certainly didn’t expect that game to go down like that. Florida is definitely hot right now, and I’m a realist so I’m not gonna say Alabama is going to win, but I wouldn’t bet money against Alabama.
By bobby
November 24, 2008 7:30 PM | Link to this
YOU KNOW WHAT KILLS ME IS THAT YOU DONT NEED A POWER HITTING OUTFIELDER WHEN THE BRAVES NEED A LEADOFF HITTER I.E BLANCO BATTING FIRST THEN BRANDON JONES BATTING SECOND OK. HOW BOUT GETTING A BETTER HITTER THAN KOTCHMAN AT FIRST LIKE IF THE PEAVY TRADES SPARK BACK UP ADD KOTCHMAN AND MAYBE FLOWERS FOR ADRIAN GONZALEZ AND BOOM THERE IS UR POWER SOURCE. U ADD HIM TO THE BRAVES LINEUP HITTING 4TH THEN FRNCHY THEN MCCANN U GOT A LINEUP LIKE THE 95 BRAVES.
By bobby
November 24, 2008 7:30 PM | Link to this
YOU KNOW WHAT KILLS ME IS THAT YOU DONT NEED A POWER HITTING OUTFIELDER WHEN THE BRAVES NEED A LEADOFF HITTER I.E BLANCO BATTING FIRST THEN BRANDON JONES BATTING SECOND OK. HOW BOUT GETTING A BETTER HITTER THAN KOTCHMAN AT FIRST LIKE IF THE PEAVY TRADES SPARK BACK UP ADD KOTCHMAN AND MAYBE FLOWERS FOR ADRIAN GONZALEZ AND BOOM THERE IS UR POWER SOURCE. U ADD HIM TO THE BRAVES LINEUP HITTING 4TH THEN FRNCHY THEN MCCANN U GOT A LINEUP LIKE THE 95 BRAVES.
By Big Dawg
December 2, 2008 7:06 AM | Link to this
Great article. It’s time to move on. Now that Hampton has exited even more emphasizes what we need to do. Don’t gamble on floaters and toters, but acquire some dependability. I wonder how long it will be before Hampton is sitting on the Astro’s bench with another ailment, yet collecting his “cool” millions. We need to get some productivity for our money and help the team.