Braves

By Patrick

November 18, 2008 2:34 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Any comments about the performances of Flowers and Hanson yesterday??

By Nocturnal Owl

November 18, 2008 2:36 PM | Link to this

Lets continue the Peavy madness! Thanks for new Blog!!!

By 18 Wheels of Love

November 18, 2008 2:41 PM | Link to this

Peterbilt

Peterbilt

By James

November 18, 2008 2:41 PM | Link to this

I think Brad Penny is still a smart sign if he’s willing to accept one year contract with a optional second year.

He will not be an inning eater but with our pitching rotation, it’s a risk worth taking.

I definitely agree with you on Peavy situation but I think you are way to optimistic. Let’s look at the Santana trade. Boston and Yankees fought harder and look who got him in the end? I feel like Houston or someone might surprise us in the end.

By Andy K.

November 18, 2008 2:42 PM | Link to this

DOB:, I agree with you that a Peavy deal will get done. Also, what do you think the chances are of, (If Esco is traded) Rafael Furcal returning? MLB Trade rumors reported the Furcal was shocked yet very excited when he was told by his agent that the Braves have interest? I think this could be a good pick-up, as it would bring a crowd pleaser, and an all-around good player back.

By Ace

November 18, 2008 2:43 PM | Link to this

Glad you’re back, DOB.

I’m with you on Peavy. Seems like the Padres are in danger of overplaying their hand here. I’m glad Wren called their bluff.

By RRR

November 18, 2008 2:44 PM | Link to this

I, too, believe there is still a chance of landing Jake. The thing is, the Pad’s ARE asking for too much. They must be demanding one of our young “untouchables”, and who could blame them. The rest of the projected package after Yunel is NOT very good if you include Jo Jo and Morton. OB: do you know why the talks came to an end? Was there a particular untouchable they demanded such as Hanson or Flowers?

By Yes Sir

November 18, 2008 2:44 PM | Link to this

DOB, I see things exactly the same way you do, especially the main theme: Peavy is too good to turn down right now. We have the means to get him, and we absolutely should go do it.

By SteveInRaleigh

November 18, 2008 2:46 PM | Link to this

I think the Padres were hoping the Yankees would snatch up all the free-agent pitchers and leave ATL and the Cubs at the dance with not partners, thus driving the price for Peavy up. While this did sort-of happen, the Cubs still managed to snag an ex-girlfriend to dance with and it seems like no one gained any advantage and the urgency for both teams to move on this trade has increased. Who budges first?

By RRR

November 18, 2008 2:46 PM | Link to this

The Pads ARE demanding too much though. Do you know what player(s) we refused to give up for Jake? After all, Morton and Jo Jo are NOT desirable if we are honest.

By Bravestillidie

November 18, 2008 2:47 PM | Link to this

Welcome back Dave. Sorry bout the game but glad you had a good trip. And also a big thanks to Carroll Rogers for giving us some bloggage over the weekend. It will be interesting to see where all of this goes, but with the re-signing of Dempster, I think our best chance to land a decent free agent starter is now off the books. Yikes.

BTID

By David O'Brien

November 18, 2008 2:48 PM | Link to this

Patrick, I ran out of time, got to get to office for yet another training class. Got a few other topics to hit on later here in the comments, including Hanson and Flowers and conversation today with Ohman, who’s gonna decide around winter meetings or so. Got a solid offer from Braves and he’s waiting for offers from about 8-10 other teams that have indicated they would make offers.

By Dan

November 18, 2008 2:49 PM | Link to this

Any idea who the Padres are asking for that caused the negotiations to break down? What is the “hold up”?

By chris from md

November 18, 2008 2:50 PM | Link to this

I firmly believe that they sticking point is pitching. When Locke entered into the discussion, the Braves drew the line. The Braves are willing to sacrifice minor league talent but not stellar pitching. And that’s what the Pads want.

Dave, are the Braves more vulnerable not that their starting pitching options are limited?

Also, who besides Lerew is out of options?

Thx,

Chris from MD

By AGTfan

November 18, 2008 2:52 PM | Link to this

I don’t need any selling on Peavy. I know he’s the real deal. Towers needs to come back down to earth. He can’t create a bidding war when Peavy has tied his hands on what teams he might waive his no-trade clause. He has to accept that the last offer he got from the Braves is the best he’s going to find. Maybe the Braves can add a tiny bit of sugar to the offer, but now much. I’d go for a youth movement next year before I’d sell the farm.

By Voice of Reason

November 18, 2008 2:52 PM | Link to this

The Braves need Peavy bad. Frank Wren needs to get this thing done. I don’t care if we have to give up Hanson or Heyward or Chipper or McCann or all of them. We need Peavy period.

By cphizzle

November 18, 2008 2:53 PM | Link to this

DOB: whats the latest on the japanese pithcer that the braves were looking, in my opinion could fill a very important role with all the other free agents seein dollar signs from the yankees

By Amazin

November 18, 2008 2:53 PM | Link to this

dob is back and has his Peavy pom poms just shakin away!! “Gimme a P!” “Gimme a E!” “Gime a A!” People here will commit harm to themselves if the Braves don’t get Peavy. They’ve been setup to believe that Jake Peavy will save their team and there are no no no other options available for the poor Bravos. “Gimme a V!” “Gimme a Y!”

By ccrider

November 18, 2008 2:54 PM | Link to this

Dave, I agree with you on the Peavy deal getting done. I don’t understand why instead of Morton OR Reyes, Frank Wren didn’t just include Reyes as the 5 piece. Towers could then say they got 2 major league ready pitchers, a potential all star SS, a High end CF prospect and bullpen help. Reyes may yet prove to be a average major league pitcher, but it would keep our top pitching prospects with higher ceilings out of the deal. DO you think the Braves might go after Randy Johnson for 1 year while udson’s out?

By McFlowwers in '09

November 18, 2008 2:55 PM | Link to this

Thanks for the new blog, chief

By Cliff

November 18, 2008 2:56 PM | Link to this

Burnette is not as good as Peavy, factoring for injuray / unavailability. But, the Braves can’t replace Yunel with anybody BETTER THAN the combo of Infante and Lillibridge for less than 9 million for 5 years.

So, Burnette at 16 plus Yunel at 5 Mill average over the next 5 years (assuming good Yunel and with that Yunel number starting at 400 K and going up over time)is WAY less than Peavy and “replacement shortstop”. And if “replacement shortstop” is a superior shortstop (like Furcal, who has a BACK INJURY) then the 9 per year average won’t work. Furcal has been offered 13 for 3 years already.

Peavy has to be 5 million better than the “alternative pitcher” to justify moving Yunel for him.

By DAP

November 18, 2008 2:56 PM | Link to this

robdowg08 I think Evan Longoria should have been AL MVP and Ryan Howard NL MVP. Both led their teams to the World Series.

but the MVP voting happend before the playoffs started, so how can that have an effect on the MVP? it doesnt, and it shouldnt.

i heard buster olney ( im pretty sure it was him) on mike and mike saying that he works in philly and the writers in philly got together in mid-september and voted for phillies MVP. brad lidge won. so, (and i know this is debatable) if howard isnt even the MVP of his team, why would he be MVP of the NL?

i think pujols was the correct choice. longoria may have been in the running for MVP if he wasnt a lock for ROY.

By TennesseePaul

November 18, 2008 2:57 PM | Link to this

Making too much sense with that post DOB. From what I’ve read, trading Yunel spells death for the franchise…

I’d like to see Peavy in the rotation. He’s the best option available. I think Yunel could be replaced. There is no clone of him out there, but there are viable defenders who could hold down the position while the big bat in LF picks up the slack of hitting.

We’ll see though. Wren shouldn’t cave to something stupid even if Lowe and AJ sign else where.

By matt_T

November 18, 2008 2:59 PM | Link to this

DOB, You going to the Kings of Leon/Whigs show tonight?

By JimD

November 18, 2008 3:02 PM | Link to this

Given the Braves claim they have a little wiggle room in the payroll department, are Peavy and Lowe necessarily mutually exclusive?

Sure, we can’t wait around to see what Boras/Lowe are going to do, but if the Peavy deal goes down, couldn’t there still exist the possibility of signing Lowe also?

By Efrim

November 18, 2008 3:03 PM | Link to this

DOB

Do you have an idea of what the holdup is for Peavy? Did Towers come in at the last moment and ask us to include an additional prospect or did he revert back to asking for Tommy Hanson?

By The BBQ on DOB mouth

November 18, 2008 3:04 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Rumor on ESPN or CNN had braves looking at Randy Johnson…Any truth to this?

By Cliff

November 18, 2008 3:06 PM | Link to this

The “hold up” should be that Peavy’s contract is 81 and his value is 100 or so (5 yers 20 million. NO WAY anybody pays more than that if Peavy was a FA). Net value of Peavy is, say, 19. Yunel’s non contract is (assuming “Good Yunel) 25 million. Yunel’s worth assuming “Good Yunel” is 60 million. Net value 35 million. Assuming “mediocre Yunel” his non contract is 20 million. He is worth 45 million. Net value is 25 million.

Why not just pay comparable salary to another pitcher and keep Yunel to either solve another problem or play short?

By sassandcompany

November 18, 2008 3:10 PM | Link to this

DOB,

I’m a Braves fan from New Jersey. I’m exactly an hour from New York and Philly. I really need someone to feel my pain. I’m at the realization that we lost the chess match to get the upper hand for Peavy. I think now that all these big named free agents are being signed we have to up our anty to get Peavy(which is scary). If we do happen to get Peavy and say Raf do you still think we need to hold on to Kelly?

By Amazin

November 18, 2008 3:10 PM | Link to this

The solution is simple. If Jake Peavy is the savior that must be had…then give up Hanson. I predict the Braves will in the end trade Hanson for Peavy because as we’ve been told…there are no no no other options…lol!

By Anders

November 18, 2008 3:10 PM | Link to this

DOB

and once Padres GM Kevin Towers realizes that he can’t keep asking the salesman to keep adding accessories after the price for the car has already been agreed upon

Has the price been agreed to? Not that I’ve seen or heard. And Towers can ask for more accessories while he still has the threat that the dealer across the street is giving them away. It’s up to Wren to gauge wether the threat is real or if he wants to wait in the hopes that the other dealer pulls back the accessories.

By Mike Honcho

November 18, 2008 3:10 PM | Link to this

Guys, we won a World Series with Jeff Blauser at short. Let that marinate for a while…Jeff Blauser.

On a happy note if we do this trade, Blauser is available!

By Efrim

November 18, 2008 3:11 PM | Link to this

DOB

Saw Role Models and laughed out loud at least a half-dozen times, always a good sign. Really is a hilarious movie.

And yes, Role Models is an excellent movie.

By ppaddy123

November 18, 2008 3:14 PM | Link to this

By ppaddy123

November 18, 2008 2:33 PM | Link to this

By David O’Brien

November 18, 2008 9:40 AM

JT, if by “that” you’re ferring to whether they think about a guy’s clubhouse demeanor or his overall “teammate” profile, if you will, then yes, of course they think about it. That’s all part of it. The No. 1 thing, and by a large measure, is performance. But yes, of course other factors come into play in these decisions, too.

I brought this over from the other blog…. Just to follow add to what you said DOB……A co-worker of mine….his son was drafted 4-5 round last year by the Dodgers (John Michael Redding). As he was going into the draft process, he had several teams that were interested in him, and several had him take psychological exams. So obviously there are MLB teams measuring both physical and mental capabilities of players they are interested in.

By JS

November 18, 2008 3:15 PM | Link to this

DOB

Don’t you think that Towers is dragging his heels, waiting for some of the pitching help like Dempster, Burnett et al to get off the market to the Yankees, etc… with the thought that once the Braves options are limited for top tier pitching help, they’ll be more inclined to throw in the towel to the Padres demands for Peavy??

Any Randy Johnson possibility?? I know he’s not what he used to be, but… And, what news is out there on Pedro at this point??

By JoeBrave

November 18, 2008 3:15 PM | Link to this

WTF??? Peavy AGAIN??? Might as well go ahead and get Knucksie,Adrian Devine,and The Count Montefusco..see if they will come. I Swear i have this sickening feeling in my gut, that Paul Byrd,and Oliver Perez will be in the Rotation.I think Mr.Wren pooped in his BVD’s at the GM Meetings. This Offseason is really Starting to WREAK of Failure!!!!

By GermanBravesFan

November 18, 2008 3:15 PM | Link to this

NEW ALBUM: WORKING ON A DREAM SET FOR JANUARY 27 RELEASE It’s official: Bruce Springsteen’s new album is set for January 27 release on Columbia Records. Working on a Dream was recorded with the E Street Band and features twelve new Springsteen compositions plus two bonus tracks. It is the fourth collaboration between Springsteen and Brendan O’Brien, who produced and mixed the album.

Track list: 1. Outlaw Pete 2. My Lucky Day 3. Working On a Dream 4. Queen of the Supermarket 5. What Love Can Do 6. This Life 7. Good Eye 8. Tomorrow Never Knows 9. Life Itself 10. Kingdom of Days 11. Surprise, Surprise 12. The Last Carnival

Bonus tracks: The Wrestler A Night with the Jersey Devil

By BA

November 18, 2008 3:16 PM | Link to this

Pedroia is a seriously lame MVP. I couldn’t be more sick of the over saturation of the Red Sox. Sorry, Josh Hamilton- MLB is about Boston and New York- not much else.

By Nate

November 18, 2008 3:17 PM | Link to this

The problem with trading Yunel for Peavy is that it will cost 10 million / year to replace Yunel with comparable talent, and that’s on top of the money the Braves would be paying Peavy. So if Peavy’s average salary is 16mil it really cost the Braves 26 million. Unless their willing to take a hit at shortstop for the next several years.

By Andrew

November 18, 2008 3:17 PM | Link to this

Whats the chance that the Braves would trade Flowers and Escobar and maybe Morton. Maybe more overall talent, but fewer players?

How many years until fans can expect to see Heyward and Schafer in the outfield together?

By Amazin

November 18, 2008 3:17 PM | Link to this

“Gimme a P!” “Gimme a E!” Gimmie a A!”I wonder why the Philadelphia PhillieS don’t offer Rollins and a few prospects for Peavy? Shortstops don’t matter and are easy to find.What about the Mets..give up young Reyes has an attitude and is hotheaded….save your rotation..NOW! What is the matter with these teams? They should be pushin to get in…don’t they know who this guy is??? “Gimmie a V!” “Gimmie a Y!”…

By McFann O –[zzz]

November 18, 2008 3:17 PM | Link to this

Voice of Reason—

If we gave up all that, sure we’d have Peavy, but we wouldn’t have anything else.

McFlowwers—

Yeah, dude. Too many W’s.

Thanks for the new Blog, DOB!

By OLEREB

November 18, 2008 3:18 PM | Link to this

I just dont get it. Would it not save us money if we signed A.J. for 80 million then to trade for Peavy and give him 81 million. We could keep Yunel and not have to pay Furcal 36 million. Is Yunel that bad in the clubhouse, do we need to get rid of him that bad? I just know he is one of the better ss in baseball. If it was up to me, I would keep the money, invest it in player development and build a dynasty again. You see it every year of teams spending money on older players and not getting their money’s worth. Build the thing right, play our kids, develop the kids, Bobby is the best at that. We are more than 3 players away from being a contender anyway, Examples I think of is the Devil Rays and the Marlins, the Marlins have more championships than we do in the last 15 years.

By Jstech

November 18, 2008 3:22 PM | Link to this

Have heard much about Sheets yet. Any chance the Braves take a look? Also, if a bat isn’t found, can Casey bat third with Chipper 4th?

By ppaddy123

November 18, 2008 3:23 PM | Link to this

DOB, funny how you used the car salesman analogy about the Peavy trade, because I was thinking the same thing. The Padres will trade Peavy. But, unfortunately for them, they can only make a deal with a few teams and it appears that list is getting smaller (Cubs to sign Dempster)…Wren is right to keep kicking the tires and his hands in his pockets….The Padres will make the deal for him.

By Bonzo

November 18, 2008 3:24 PM | Link to this

Wow … A new blog from our crusading everyman. I think I tore my Tommy Johnson ligament racing my mouse to the top of the page to get to the new blog. It’s OK, though. John Andrews is just down the road from me and he can patch up that ‘ol ligament.

Glad to have you back, DOB. Hopefully the Braves and Mr. Wren will be cooking with gas soon.

By Erik

November 18, 2008 3:24 PM | Link to this

DOB Welcome back you have been missed.

I certainly don’t mean to be a Debbie Downer, but what IF we dont get Peavy, Lowe, Brunette, or Dempster (which it appears he is a cub again). What do you think the braves would do then? It would seem very difficult to compete in the NL East without a frontline starter. Would the braves sign a couple low end inning eater type starters or give guys like Parr a chance to start? Would they still pursue trades for offensive upgrades?

Thanks just trying to see what would happen under a worse case scenario.

Thanks DOB

By Efrim

November 18, 2008 3:28 PM | Link to this

Anders

Has the price been agreed to? Not that I’ve seen or heard. And Towers can ask for more accessories while he still has the threat that the dealer across the street is giving them away. It’s up to Wren to gauge wether the threat is real or if he wants to wait in the hopes that the other dealer pulls back the accessories.

Good points. I can’t imagine names like Burnett, Dempster, Lowe going off the board will help the Braves chances of trading for Peavy with a package of Yunel Escobar, Gorkys Hernandez, Charlie Morton and Blaine Boyer….if that what was offered.

I think Towers asked for more last Thursday, and if he asked for more, then what will make him not ask more for today, after hearing the Yankees crazy proposal to Burnett.

The leverage is probably more in the hands of Kevin Towers at this point. Even if he has no other suitors for Peavy’s services.

My guess is Peavy will be a Brave, but Wren will have to add an additonal prospect like Locke to the proposal. There’s one of those 5 for 1 deals Mark Bradley was talking about over the weekend…..

By DannyFish

November 18, 2008 3:29 PM | Link to this

DOB Thanks for the new blog. Have you heard anything about the Braves and Mike Hampton? I was hoping that they would sign him back quick after looking good to close out last season. I know that you can’t really depend on him but if he stays healthy (fingers crossed) he could be a really nice surprise for us.

By Jacob

November 18, 2008 3:30 PM | Link to this

What do you think the chances of Edgar Renteria coming back to Atlanta? I believe that he will a much better option for the braves if picking up two starting pitchers is still in the mix. He didn’t have a successful season last year, however, he is a warm weather baseball player! He has said repeatedly that he would love to play for Bobby Cox again.

By Andrew

November 18, 2008 3:31 PM | Link to this

just get the Peavy trade done … its going to take a lot - just don’t include Hansen and and Heyward.

Something is going to have to give soon - it would suck to get stuck with no moves this off season.

When are Heyward and Scafer coming up to Atlanta? A young outfield would have some bumps a long the way, but at least it would be fun to watch.

By True Braves Fan

November 18, 2008 3:32 PM | Link to this

Any chance we offer Randy Johnson 8 mil for one year? (Not to replace the possibility of Peavy, but in addition to.)

By Scooter McGee

November 18, 2008 3:33 PM | Link to this

All this Peavy talk is worse than a 5 year marriage. All the thrill is gone.

By BrandonC

November 18, 2008 3:34 PM | Link to this

All I know is something needs to be accomplished. Since the Peavy negotiations “quit” last week we haven’t heard any other rumors regarding the Braves besides the Ohman offer. I know it’s still early, but it just seems like they are still waiting for the Peavy deal to happen, even after they said they weren’t going after him anymore. I hope Wren has a magic wand in his pocket because this team is several players away from being a contender again.

By David O'Brien

November 18, 2008 3:36 PM | Link to this

Erik, I can’t see such a scenario unfolding. Yes, they might possibly miss out on the four front-liners you mentioned, but there are many other options — some known at this time, some not known — available on the trade market, guys between those top-tier free agents (and Peavy) and the low-end innings eaters you mentioned. Tthink of the Jon Garlands and Scott Olsens of the world. Or Randy Wolf, etc.

Worst-case scenario, I think, is they only get one top-half-of-rotation type starter. But there’s a LOT of time to get two good starters.

By skull

November 18, 2008 3:36 PM | Link to this

Mike Honcho

Guys, we won a World Series with Jeff Blauser at short. Let that marinate for a while…Jeff Blauser.

Way off! Since ‘95 was the ATLANTA Braves only series win I remember it like yesterday.

Blauser didn’t set foot on the field for that series except for pre-game intros.

The SS was mostly Belliard, with Mike Mordecai relacing him a couple of times. Who can forget Belliard’s squeeze that turned out to be the winning run in game one. How about Belliard’s fine sprinting catch of Lofton’s pop foul for the 1st out of the nine in the series clinching game six. Don’t believe it—-maybe finding the box scores for the series. I’m sure they’re out there somewhere on the internet—-no I don’t have any link to them but I remember well what happened.

YEAH! YEAH! YEAH! every bit as good as Braves win! Braves win! Braves win!

By Jim

November 18, 2008 3:36 PM | Link to this

DOB

Thanks for the reports on Hanson and Flowers. But did you get a chance to see and get reports on the other Brave players at Mesa? I’d particularly like to hear what you saw and have heard about Matt Young. Is he a dark horse candidate for a promotion to Atlanta in the next year or two? Also what is the word on Medlen and Marek? These three player seem to be quitely having a good fall in the shadow of Hanson and Flowers.

By Erik

November 18, 2008 3:37 PM | Link to this

Nate IF Yunel and Furcal we exactly the same then yes you would have a point but they are not. Defensively they are very similar but furcal brings us a leadoff hitter and a LEGIT BASE STEALER the braves have not had that since he left. Furcal is better than Yunel now(might and probably will be the opposite at the end of the 4 yr contract we would have to give Furcal, however by that point they will probably cost the same). Furcal gives added value to our team and gives a leadoff hitter. Yunel was a good 2 hole hitter put we have a couple guys that seem to be that 2 hole hitter type, including KJ, Prado, and possibly Schaffer.

Bottom line is we get much more for that 26 million than we would for 16 a year of Brunette

By DAP

November 18, 2008 3:38 PM | Link to this

erik if i can get in on the worst case senerio thing… if we cant get any of those good or even decent starters, the braves till have about $40mil to spend. heres what i think they could do, worst case senerio. re-sign hampton maybe for two years. sign one of the older free agetns, say mike mussina for one year. then sign one of the lower tier FA pitcher to a three year deal. someon like looper, mulder (coming back from injury) wolf.

thus the braves have three pitchers to round out jurjens and campillo. hanson, morton, jojo in reserve, in case we need them, which we just might.

to me, this would leave no excuse to not resign will ohman. we wont be spending as much on starters, so we should hang onto our good relief.

then, try to build up the offense with a shrewd move like a trade for a young player.

to me, thats worst case. no matter what, we have money to spend, and we should. when 2010 comes around, the braves will be alot better, either way.

By JOE

November 18, 2008 3:39 PM | Link to this

What is up with Mike Hampton? Any offers from anyone? Do the Braves really want him back?? Whats up with Smoltz’s shoulder? Glad you’re back..

By Wayne

November 18, 2008 3:46 PM | Link to this

What is the story behind Sheets? Is he handing out information on his elbow situation (medical reports, etc).

What would it take to sign him? If the Pads won’t budge on Peavy, then let’s go for Sheets, Randy Johnson and Mike Hampton. I know it sounds eerily like 2008 all over again, but this beats overpaying tremendously.

With the Cubs signing Dempster, I can’t see them making a serious offer for Peavy.

By SEM

November 18, 2008 3:48 PM | Link to this

DOB, you mentioned eating in Kansas City. My wife was born in KC (parents lived 60 miles south in Butler, no hospital in 1955), and visited the city frequently in her early years. One of her favorite restaurants is Stephenson’s Apple Farm in Independence. Ever eaten there? I’ve gone there a few times over the years. Man, the apple fritters just about make me swallow my tongue. I also enjoy the free apple cider in the waiting room. Need to go there again. Trouble is, it’s not exactly on my way anywhere living here in Alabama.

By BA

November 18, 2008 3:48 PM | Link to this

Bradley’s “empty farm system” article was ill-informed at best. Adding Locke or Rohrbough would hardly leave the cupboard empty.

The Tex trade didn’t “empty” the farm system either. They lost a couple of potentially good players (Salty, Andrus) and one legit pitching prospect (Perez).

All of these can’t miss prospects that have come up the last few years, and McCann is the only one to develop into a star.

Bring Fookie back, bad back and all. Trade Esco for Peavy, Kelly “the infield butcher” Johnson for Ludwick and go to war with fookie and nitmar.

They’ll make you shine.

By robdawg08

November 18, 2008 3:48 PM | Link to this

“Get Peavy even if you have to trade Chipper.”

So you trade a hitter that will win win 60 games with his bat (that’s what hitting .370 will do) for a pitcher that might win 14 to 20 games with his arm ? No thanks.

Trading Escobar would be a mistake. He has more upside than Peavy does. Braves need to pony up the cash for free agents or stand pat and be a content third place team. One scenario WILL happen.

By Voice from the past

November 18, 2008 3:52 PM | Link to this

That “voice of reason” is not the Voice of Reason, nor is he a voice of reason. I am the one and only original Voice of Reason, and am embarrassed that that pile of dung was served up under my handle.

By DAP

November 18, 2008 3:54 PM | Link to this

i actually think the braves are in a better place with the peavy talks. wren isnt going to budge on the trade. hes already shown hed do it his way or no way. now that the cubs, who were the only other team even remotly in the running for peavy, have signed dempster, their need for peavy has waned.

this leaves the braves as maybe the only team still standing. wren may be able to get it back to a three player trade.

By Steve from OH

November 18, 2008 3:55 PM | Link to this

Here’s an article from Baseball America on Hanson and Flowers:

PHOENIX — Braves pitching prospect Tommy Hanson came to the Arizona Fall League with one primary goal in mind.

“Mainly to come out here and work on my changeup,” Hanson said.

Instead, the 22-year-old righthander has elevated his reputation to that of one of the top pitching prospects in baseball with his performance for the Mesa Solar Sox.

After six starts, Hanson has effectively used his four-pitch arsenal to post a 0.76 ERA with 39 strikeouts and only five walks in 23 2/3 innings. He’s held opposing hitters to a meager .114 average. These numbers don’t include the three hitless, scoreless innings he pitched in the annual Rising Stars Showcase held at the end of the AFL’s third week.

His AFL performance comes after a year in which he finished 3-1, 0.90 at high Class A Myrtle Beach and 8-4, 3.03 at Double-A Mississippi. It was Hanson’s third professional season after being picked in the 22nd round of the 2005 draft as a draft-and-follow out of Riverside Community College. His season included a no-hitter for Mississippi.

Hanson’s got a pretty good idea why he’s been successful in Arizona.

“Just the consistency of my breaking pitches,” he replied. “All my off-speed pitches felt really good out here. I’ve been able to throw them for strikes when I need to.”

Hanson’s success is no surprise to Mesa skipper Rocket Wheeler, who was with him for parts of the past two seasons as manager of the Myrtle Beach Pelicans.

“I saw a different Tommy Hanson take the ball field (this year) as opposed to ‘07 when he came up halfway through the year,” Wheeler said. “Tommy got hit around in ‘07 a little bit. It’s not that he didn’t believe in his stuff. When he took the mound this year it was like a new person. He knows what he wants to do, he knows what pitches he wants to throw, and for the most part all year, he’s thrown every pitch he wants to throw and put it where he wants to put it.”

Fellow Braves farmhand Tyler Flowers, Hanson’s primary catcher in the AFL, has witnessed the steady improvement.

“I’ve seen a lot of growth since I caught him early in the year in Myrtle Beach,” said Flowers. “He looked pretty sharp, but nothing like he is now. The addition of his slider has been his special pitch; it really keeps the hitters off balance. They can’t really cheat. To catch up to the fastball now, they have to respect that slider. His changeup’s coming along and he’s got that devastating curveball that definitely buckles the hitters all the time.”

Solar Sox pitching coach Ray Burris points out one other important attribute that Hanson has going for him—his cerebral approach to pitching.

“Where he has raised his game is knowing how to take his mental toughness to another level,” said Burris, the Tigers pitching coach at Double-A Erie. “The consistency that he has developed in his mind, in his pitch selection and his approach has been remarkable.”

Judging from his results in Arizona, it’s difficult to imagine that Hanson had to correct any flaws this fall. But he credits Burris with helping him improve his approach at the start of the game. It’s the single most important lesson he’s learned this fall.

“I usually struggle in the first inning in finding the strike zone, getting too pumped up and leaving my fastballs high,” Hanson said. “He (Burris) had Flowers set up in the middle of the plate … I try to get downhill, get to my balance point, and start working downhill and get to the bottom of the zone before I start hitting corners.”

His name was mentioned in numerous trade rumors earlier in the fall, but the laid-back Hanson didn’t let it bother him. He acknowledged that trades are part of the game and that whatever happens is out of his control. He has since been told by Braves officials that he will not be traded, that he’s very much in their plans.

“All I try to worry about is going out and pitching,” he said.

To say that Hanson’s done a great job this fall is an understatement. He’ll go to spring training with a chance at a rotation spot in Atlanta sometime in 2009, perhaps at the beginning of the season.

“He’s been a dominant pitcher out here,” Wheeler said. “He’s made a statement that he wants to pitch in Atlanta next year. I’m looking for great things out of Tommy.”

Wheeler then corrected himself, saying, “Greater things.”

FALL GUYS Tyler Flowers (Braves) ripped four home runs last week, including three in one game against Surprise on Nov. 12, to take the league lead with 11. With four regular-season games remaining, the Georgia native is three behind the league record set in 2005 by Brandon Wood (Angels).

The Solar Sox catcher, who hit 17 homers for Myrtle Beach during the regular season, believes he is just building on his year in the Carolina League with only a slight modification.

“My approach at the plate stayed the same,” Flowers said. “I made a small mechanical adjustment, raising my hands up a little bit, but other than that it’s the same approach every day. I haven’t been missing as many pitches and the ball carries nice out here.”

By Jim

November 18, 2008 3:56 PM | Link to this

I don’t think it makes us competetive to trade away Yunel and or KJ to get a number 1 (Peavy) and include Morton in that package. I would expect Morton to be our number 4-5 starter next year if we stood pat, and I’d expect him to develop over the year into a more than competent middle of the rotation starter. If we went with Hanson, Jair, and Morton, plus two other Campillo/Hampton/Glavine type starters, we would not be competetive in 2009, but we would be giving the nucleus of our next rotation a good chance to develop and would have a very solid front end of the rotation in 2010 and beyond. If our rotation is Peavy, Jair, Hanson, and fill in the blanks we are not much stronger next year and we have lost a key part of our infield defense and our offense that is difficult to replace. Plus we have added a lot of pyroll that we could use more productively to build and keep a nucleus when the team is better positioned to contend in 2010 and beyond. Furcal (BAD BACK), Renteria (NO ARM, LITTLE RANGE), and Cabrera (34 YEARS OLD AT SS) are little more than stop-gap measures with, thanks to the Tex deal, no adequate replacement in sight within our system. Pitching takes a little time to develop and one more year with the potential that Hanson, Jair, and Morton have could reward this team with young rotation that maintains our competetiveness for the next 5+ years.

By Mike Honcho

November 18, 2008 3:56 PM | Link to this

skull

proves my point even more. Did Blauser play at all that season?

If not…we won a world series with players that couldn’t beat out Jeff Blauser for the starting job.

So those that believe that the Braves, after losing Escobar, will look like Topeka, KS after the Russians attack are miserable creatures.

What these people are saying is unforgiveable, and offensive to lesser shortstops everywhere who are weighed down by the Tiffany diamonds of their World Series rings (see: Rafeal Belliard and his art studio in Boca)

By ppaddy123

November 18, 2008 3:57 PM | Link to this

By Erik November 18, 2008 3:37 PM Nate IF Yunel and Furcal we exactly the same then yes you would have a point but they are not. Defensively they are very similar but furcal brings us a leadoff hitter and a LEGIT BASE STEALER the braves have not had that since he left.

He was a legit base stelaer before back surgery. I seriously doubt he will run nearly as much now. He will still be a solid defensive SS but hell will only run 20-25% of the time.

By Daybed Wagmoe

November 18, 2008 3:57 PM | Link to this

DOB — what movies did you get from Blockbuster for your nephew?

By Efrim

November 18, 2008 3:58 PM | Link to this

Bowman has another article up:

http://hotstove.mlblogs.com/archives/2008/11/startingpitchingoptions_dwin.html

I really hope this back and forth negotiation doesn’t continue until Christmas. If the Braves are to get a reasonable replacement for Yunel Escobar(Rafael Furcal), then I would think the Peavy deal needs to happen before the winter meetings. Well before the winter meetings, as it seems like Furcal already has offers from a few clubs.

The likes of Edgar Renteria(defensively) and Cesar Izturis(offensively) won’t be a suitable replacement for Yunel.

By Original Jon

November 18, 2008 3:58 PM | Link to this

How about someone like Justin Verlander, do you think he could be had for cheap since he is coming off a subpar year?

By David O'Brien

November 18, 2008 3:59 PM | Link to this

Joe, last I heard from or about Smoltz, he was progressing as planned. Frank Wren said he probably wouldn’t know until as late as January whether Smoltz and/or Glavine would be back. Smoltz told me he wasn’t going to answer any questions about his progress, so I can’t help you anymore than that.

As for Hampton, as we’ve written many times, he wants to see what other offers he gets, because he’d prefer a team closer to his home in Arizona. He’s going through a divorce and wants to be near his kids out there if he can, so he can get back on off days or whatever, and possibly be there for spring training.

You’ve got to remember, it’s still very early in the free-agent process and only a couple of guys have even signed. The majority won’t sign before winter meetings in a couple of weeks, and many won’t sign until later.

By DAP

November 18, 2008 4:01 PM | Link to this

BA dont forget matt harrison won 9 games in 15 starts for the rangers. none of his other stats are that good, but still.

By TheDunderChief

November 18, 2008 4:01 PM | Link to this

Someone’s probably mentioned already, but don’t you have to add the additional salary that will go to Yunel’s replacement onto Peavy’s Salary? It depends on who they get, but most likely it will be a substantial amount and would make the Peavy deal eat into payroll much more than just grabbing a free agent pitcher even at above market prices while holding onto Yunel.

By Luther

November 18, 2008 4:04 PM | Link to this

Good call Skull

Looked it up and Belliard was 0-16 in the 95 series with 4 k’s, 1 RBI, and 2 SHs.

By David O'Brien

November 18, 2008 4:05 PM | Link to this

JIM: I’m doing a story on Marek and Medlen for Thursday paper (should be posted online by tomorrow night). Both have pitched very well out there, both have good stuff and throw strikes. I think Marek’s got a good shot to win a bullpen job this spring, and Medlen could compete either for a bullpen or starting spot this year. Marek’s a thick-legged dude with some nasty stuff. Medlen’s small, but has a decent fastball that he spots very well, like he does all his pitches. Goes right after hitters, impresses everyone who sees him. He really took off when he moved to starting role at midseason last year, and I think that’s where he’s best suited. Probably needs a full season of starting in the minors, but nothing’s set in stone.

I wrote a blog comment or something about Young. He’s a Pete Orr type, scrappy guy who could compete for a utility job in the not-too-distant future, here or elsewhere. He is about as small a player as you’ll see, smaller than Giles. Probably about 5-7, perhaps even shorter. But he’s quick, can steal a base and can hit for average.

By dent

November 18, 2008 4:05 PM | Link to this

I may be in the minority but we should consider both Sheets and Oliver Perez. Perez is young and durable. Years ago I would have traded several prospects for him. Mets stole him for nothing. Sheets on a two year deal if necessary. I would really like to make the Peavy deal. Sign Furcal. Furcal would really help the top of our line up. With Hansen, Morton, Campillo we would be very competitive.

By Tomas

November 18, 2008 4:05 PM | Link to this

DOB, this is the article where implies Zack Greinke may be traded

Royals’ Greinke in no rush to sign long-term deal By BOB DUTTON The Kansas City Star

Zack Greinke sounds like he intends to take a wait-and-see approach before committing to a long-term future with the Royals.

“I’m comfortable with my pitching ability,” he said, “to (the point) where I feel like I’m going to pitch (well) for a while. I don’t need to get a long-term deal because I feel I’ll be able to pitch (well) and earn a long-term deal when I become a free agent.”

Greinke’s comments came Tuesday on a teleconference conducted following his selection as recipient of the Joe Burke Special Achievement award by the Kansas City Chapter of the Baseball Writers’ Association of America.

Club officials previously indicated a desire to work out a long-term contract for Greinke, who isn’t eligible for free agency until after the 2010 season. The club’s preference is to buy out at least one year of free-agent eligibility.

“Zack has been a big part of stabilizing our pitching here in Kansas City,” general manager Dayton Moore said. “We look forward to the opportunity for him to continue his career here.”

Greinke indicated that his decision might hinge on the Royals’ on-field success.

“I love the city,” he said. “It’s just trying to figure out how good we’re going to be.”

Industry analysts suggest the framework for any deal is likely to be the three-year contract that Scott Kazmir signed last May with Tampa Bay. Kazmir gets $28.5 million in guaranteed salary but surrenders his first year of free-agent eligibility.

Greinke, 25, was 13-10 last season with a 3.47 ERA in 32 starts. It marked his first full season in the rotation since 2005.

Moore acknowledged that the failure to reach a long-term agreement could prompt the Royals to trade Greinke — but not at any point in the immediate future.

“That’s jumping ahead a little bit,” Moore said, “but that’s a logical conclusion you can make with any player who approaches free agency.”

Greinke is entering his second offseason of arbitration eligibility after making $1.4 million in 2008. His salary for next season seems likely to reach $3 million or more.

“It’s still the club’s option to do whatever it wants,” he said. “I still have a two-year (commitment) with them. That’s pretty long-term. I don’t really know how things are going to work out or what’s going to happen here.”

I guess when Moore says not in the immediate future, he is saying the royals will have Greinke in their rotation for the beginning of next year. And if Greinke doesn’t want to sign a long term deal he will trade him by the trade deadline or in the offseason of next season. Zack Greinke will be a free agent on 2010.

That doesn’t work for Atlanta unfortunately, they need someone in the immediate future.

I think they should outbid the Yankees for Aj Burnett. I know 5 years is a lot for a guy like Aj, but if they don’t they wont be able to land two quality starters.

I propose this give Aj Burnett an offer of 5 years 80.5 million. in 2009 when he is 32, 18 million, in 2010 when he is 33, 18 million, in 2011 when he is 34, 17 million, in 2012 when he is 35, 14.25million, and 2013 when he is 36, 13.25 million.

I know it’s a big gamble, but if we don’t get Aj, trust me, Derek Lowe would command like 3 years 51 million. That would be an even bigger gamble because of his age. I know he has never been in the DL, but so was Glavine until this year.

So it’s up to this, do you give Aj Burnett a 32 yr old starter with dominant stuff, but with a history of injuries(he didn’t have any arm problems last year), 5 yrs 80.5 million.

Or do you give Derek Lowe a 36 yr old starting pitcher, with good control and a terrific sinker(a 4.42 ERA on the road), 3yrs 51 million.

After this year, I hope the Braves learn their lesson about signing old pitchers.

If I were Wren I’d choose Aj Burnett, because of his dominant stuff, and younger age.

By ppaddy123

November 18, 2008 4:06 PM | Link to this

By DAP November 18, 2008 3:54 PM this leaves the braves as maybe the only team still standing. wren may be able to get it back to a three player trade.

I agree. What were the 5 original teams? Braves, Cubs, Cards, Astros?, and Dodgers…..I think. From all appearances, we still look like the best match.

By Novice Ned

November 18, 2008 4:07 PM | Link to this

Worese case scenario, we go with an 8-man rotation featuring Smoltz, Glavine, Maddox, Randy Johnson, Mike Mussina, Pettite, Hampton & Jurrjens.

By jokurone

November 18, 2008 4:08 PM | Link to this

Hey DB, you mis-spelled “since” it should be made “sense” for the braves.

By Lew

November 18, 2008 4:10 PM | Link to this

TampaBrave-Sorry to hear about your hermaphroditic Aunt, but what part of Kelly Johnson’s 21 game hitting streak to end the season was unclear to you? Did you also happen to hear what he attributed his resurgence to? I did-it was being more aggressive and not taking strikes early in the count. It worked.

By jokurone

November 18, 2008 4:11 PM | Link to this

Hey DOB, you mis-spelled “since” it should be made “sense” for the Braves

By McFann O –[zzz]

November 18, 2008 4:12 PM | Link to this

Voice from the past—

I figured he had to be a fake. Don’t you just despise those identity thieves?

By N8

November 18, 2008 4:13 PM | Link to this

Mike Honcho

“Guys, we won a World Series with Jeff Blauser at short. Let that marinate for a while…Jeff Blauser.”

For starters, we got to the post-season WITH Jeff Blauser at SS.

However, he was inactive for the WS, due to injury. I’ve said it a hundred times, the defensive play that Belliard made for out #1 (Kenny Lofton, I believe), leading off the top of the 9th in Game 6, would NOT have been made by Blauser.

Secondly, we also had 3 HOF pitchers in the rotation (along with Steve Avery, who was affective that post-season as well), ADD TO THAT, we had Wohlers as the closer.

Ryan Klesko could have been the SS of that team, and they might have still won it all.

That being said, I understand your angle.

By McFann O –[zzz]

November 18, 2008 4:14 PM | Link to this

BTW—Since Beggar Ben has returned (and begged twice already since lunch), I cann now be depressed that Nate McLouth got that tenth-place vote for MVP instead of McCann.

: (

By Marv Kleeman

November 18, 2008 4:14 PM | Link to this

“Fanatic” Braves fan here.

First time poster, long time reader of this great blog.

Memo to Frank Wren:

You and J.S. have put together a nice little team; please don’t break it up.

Keep Yunel Escobar

Keep Kelly Johnson

Don’t trade any of our prospects.

We have a pitching staff that is very underrated and will surprise a lot of people in 2009.

An excellent mix of youngsters (Jair Jurrjens, Jo Jo Reyes, Charlie Morton) a “grizzled” veteran (Mike Hanpton, if we can re sign him) and a little international flavor (Jorge Campillo, the “Mexican Maddox”).

C’mon guys. Young pitchers need time to develop. Give Jo Jo Reyes and Charlie Morton a chance. You’ve all been spoiled by the success of Greg Maddox, John Smoltz and Tom Glavine.

We had little patience with Kyle Davies and traded him to K.C. for Octavio Dotel; a half season rental.

We had little patience with Joey Devine (who had a record setting season in 2008)and traded him to Oak.for Mark Kotsay; a veteran journeyman and good clubhouse presence.

Young pitchers struggle. That is part of the maturation process. The Mets could have traded Mike Pelfrey as part of the package for Johan Santana but instead held on to him and see how nicely he developed.

If Jo Jo Reyes and Charlie Morton develop as I believe they can, you save tens of millions of dollars going into the 2010 season where they can be joined in the rotation by Tim Hudson and Tommy Hanson.

Just sign Raul Ibanez to a two year contract to play left field and Juan Rivera to a two year contract to be our fourth outfielder and as a hedge against another possible flop by Jeff Francoeur.

And we’re good to go.

By Ted

November 18, 2008 4:18 PM | Link to this

I understand the use of Peavy’s career numbers. But why is the fact he’s been pitching half his games in the best pitcher’s park in baseball being ignored?

His career ERA at home is 2.77. His career ERA on the road is 3.80. Now I am not saying he’s a bad pitcher, and he’d definitely be the best the Braves have. But I think it skews perception if we think Peavy, if now pitching in a more neutral ballpark, is going to remain a sub 2.90 pitcher.

So what are you truly going to get out of Peavy at $16MM/year for 5 years (and I would expect his option to be picked up as a condition to waive his no-trade) that you might not get out of Burnett for $16MM/year for 5 years? Durability? Perhaps. But Peavy’s missed time in two seasons, so he doesn’t sport a perfectly clean bill of health either. So is giving up your starting SS, a very good CF prospect and two other players worth that increased durability? Again, perhaps. But I don’t think it is a no-brainer type of decision, either.

In the end, if the Braves can get Peavy for Yunel, Gorkys, Morton and lower prospect/MR, you make the deal due to the Braves sorely needing SP. But much more than that, and I personally would rather they spend $16MM/year for Burnett and/or Lowe since I don’t think they’d be THAT much worse than what peavy would give you outside of PETCO - and you’d still have the aforementioned players.

By Nate

November 18, 2008 4:19 PM | Link to this

Eric,

I’m not sure Furcal brings more to the table than Yunel right now. Did you see him make those errors in the playoffs? He’s got a bad. How many games did miss this past season? How many games will he miss next season? As he ages how quick will the drop off be. Since no one could ever figure out his real age its pretty tough to really assess that.

And how many years does Yunel have before he reaches free agency? Is it more than the three or four years that signing Furcal would require? Plus Yunel has upside. He’s going to continue to improve the next few seasons.

Picking Yunel over Furcal over the course of the next three season is an easy call, and that’s not even mentioning the money saved by keeping Yunel.

You have to admit that over teh course of teh next three seasons you would rather have Burnett, Escobar, and an extra 10 million dollars per year to spend than have Furcal and Peavy.

I mean, that’s not a hard choice.

By matt r

November 18, 2008 4:20 PM | Link to this

Frank Wren calls you to tell you that the talks have broken off? Is this some sort of media-leaking-posturing to make the Padres think that we are not happy with the directions the talks are going? Or is it something else?

By Ron Roberts

November 18, 2008 4:20 PM | Link to this

I, too, have wondered why the Braves aren’t mentioned in the Randy Johnson discussion. I mean, he’s year-to-year, isn’t he? To me, he’s perfect to fill the Tim Hudson void in the rotation, then we go get that one top-of-the-rotation guy to go with him and see where that gets us for the year.

He’s a viable bridge-gapper, isn’t he? What kind of money’s he asking for, anyhow?

By Fred

November 18, 2008 4:22 PM | Link to this

Novice Ned… be serious… you forgot David Wells and Jamie Moyer.

By flange1

November 18, 2008 4:22 PM | Link to this

VOR,

Raisins, we knew that post wasn’t you! You are way to smart for that stuff!!!

By robdawg08

November 18, 2008 4:24 PM | Link to this

Escobar is a 5 tool player (speed,power,glove,arm,avg.) and Furcal is a 3 tool player (speed,arm,glove). Furcal is faster but that’s the only tool he’s better than Yunel at. Furcal has previous injuries and Yunel doesn’t. Furcal is in his 10th year and Yunel only in his 2nd year. Yunel might become a Tejada or Jeter. Furcal is a R.Belliard type.

By Epinephrine

November 18, 2008 4:26 PM | Link to this

I feel like the Braves bargaining position w regard to Peavy would be enhanced if we could sign someone first.

With the Cubs signing Dempster and dealing Ceda, I think their chances of getting Peavy decrease significantly.

I don’t buy the Yankees.

The Braves still seem the logical choice. If we can move to a position where we don’t absolutely need Peavy, we enhance our position still further. Then maybe the Pads would be forced to take a Escobar, Hernandez Boyer/Locke/Morton/Reyes package. That is, 3 pieces rather than 4.

By BravesWaves

November 18, 2008 4:29 PM | Link to this

Ok, my dream scenario: So we get Derek Lowe as quickly as we can. That makes our team even more attractive to Peavy, who puts more pressure on the Pads to get him to us. We give them Kelly “drop the easy pop” Johnson, Blow-Jo Reyes, and Blaine “blows the game” Boyer (oh man, how I’d love to see those three off at the airport!) in return. Glav gets better, Hampton and Smoltz are healthy and you have Jake Peavy, Derek Lowe, Jair, Glavine and Hampton. Then when Hudson gets back, you have Peavy, Hudson, Lowe and Glavine for the playoffs! Long relief: Campillo, Smoltz. Then if Ohman is back and everyone else stays healthy, we have a lights out rotation, and a really solid bullpen! Man, I wish. Come on Braves, it’s almost Christmas!

By N8

November 18, 2008 4:29 PM | Link to this

Luther

“Looked it up and Belliard was 0-16 in the 95 series with 4 k’s, 1 RBI, and 2 SHs.”

You know what that 1 RBI was, don’t you?

It was the squeeze play that knocked in the eventual winning run in a one run game.

How many times have guys like Yunel, KJ, Diaz and allegedly better hitters than a guy like Belliard (who played damn good defense in a bunch of close games in that series), FAIL to get down sacrifce bunts, much less squeeze plays in the past two years?

What goes un-noticed and unmentioned about those early 90’s Braves teams, including the WS winning team of 95, is that they RARELY failed to execute bunts. EVER. And when they got those bunts down, they USUALLY capitalized on them, and turned those sacrifices into runs.

Raise your hand, if you think that right there is the difference between a team being a perenniel winner, and a team that loses 20+ 1-Run games in a row?

Belliard was certainly not the MVP of that series. But to say they won DESPITE his 0 for 16, is naive. There was a time in MLB when most teams didn’t have an offensive minded SS. And the teams that did happen to have stellar pitching.

sound familiar?

By Tomas

November 18, 2008 4:30 PM | Link to this

Damn Yankees, why the hell do they have so much money.

If we end up with Jon Garland this team has no future for next year.

I think Wren will be the one calling back Towers if he is unable to sign Lowe, or Burnett.

Apart from Jake Peavy, I think Aaran Harang, Bronson Arroyo, Ian Snell, Javier Vazques, and hopefully Scott Baker, and Francisco Liriano.

From that group I like Francisco Liriano, Jake Peavy, Aaron Harang, and Scott Baker.

• To get Jake Peavy the Braves would have to trade Yunel Escobar, Jeff Locke, Gorkys Hernandez, Blaine Boyer, and Charlie Morton.

• To get Francisco Liriano the Braves would have to trade Yunel Escobar, and Charlie Morton.

• To get Scott Baker the Braves would have to trade Yunel Escobar, and Charlie Morton.

• To get Aaron Harang the Braves would have to trade Jordan Schafer, Jeff Locke or Charlie Morton, and Blaine Boyer.

By Nocturnal Owl

November 18, 2008 4:31 PM | Link to this

I cann now be depressed that Nate McLouth got that tenth-place vote for MVP instead of McCann

McFann Last night I was just as clueless. Especially, rookie soto who lost to Mac recieved many votes. Steve from OH got it right- Won’t go far fighting the stupid calculations in such awards.

WE HAVE TO GO GET THIS PEAVY THING DONE

Not for the Peavy sake but we need FOOKIE!

We need a true leadoff hitter that has lacked since his departure.

The Muts, Phillies, and Marlins ALL have speed. If we want to be legit we must match them, they are our rivals after all…. Fookie CANN still hit!!!!

By Don't Trade Franceour, Sheesh

November 18, 2008 4:31 PM | Link to this

To everyone who wants Randy Johnson…

Do we really need to add another aging arm that will get us an average of 4-7 innings each time out? No doubt the guy can still strike ‘em out…but there is a reason why he may come cheap.

Don’t forget how over-worked our bullpen was last year. Randy Johnson is not going to help in that area at all.

By VORP

November 18, 2008 4:31 PM | Link to this

&^%Towers

By stamper

November 18, 2008 4:34 PM | Link to this

robdawg08… you dont’ actually believe any of that nonsense you just spouted, do you? i think you’re high.

By Don't Trade Franceour, Sheesh

November 18, 2008 4:36 PM | Link to this

Escobar, speed?! Furcal, Belliard?!

By robdawg08

November 18, 2008 4:38 PM | Link to this

Dang Nate, I think we were reading each other’s minds on Yunel/Furcal. I will admit Furcal has more power than Belliard did but in my eyes he’s pretty much a Belliard.

I think all of us only want the best for the Braves. We surely aren’t GM’s or even claim to be but we follow the game and business close enough to know our teams flaws. I’m so glad we have had a good team for so long in Atlanta. We could easily be the Royals or Pirates. But its also shocking that the Braves are so close to being a top team (3 more good players) yet won’t (or seemingly won’t) get those three more players to be competitive. We could understand if it was the Royals who need 11 more players to compete.. Chipper and Hudson shouldn’t have to be a part of TOTAL rebuilding. Allow these players a chance to win with another team if this is the total change in direction the Braves go in. Teams need to be rebuilt for sure but this team is veteran and phenom laden. They can win next year and in the future with the right moves.

By used cars

November 18, 2008 4:39 PM | Link to this

If feasible (feasable?) I would rather have Burnett and Escobar, than Peavy and Furcal or Cabrera…That being said, we still have a need for leftfield.If ludwick could be had for kelly, boyer and parr, then do it. Then get felipe lopez on the cheap for 2b and keep our bench intact. We would still need another pitcher, but then we could look at Randy Johnson or Perez, because we really need a lefty. Then I like the whole team and we didn’t gut our system and we could still make a move next summer if we needed to….

By Elmer

November 18, 2008 4:44 PM | Link to this

The Braves need a power outfielder. Ludwick would fit.

By Andrew

November 18, 2008 4:46 PM | Link to this

Are there any 3rd base prospects on the farm? Hoss has been a fixture, and the Braves have been lucky to have him, but the writing is on the wall. He doesn’t have too many seasons left.

Would it make any sense to trade him, with his consent, to a competitor and completely rebuild the team this year. Give a lot of time to rookies and see what happens. Seems like the Marlins do this every other year and they are exciting … won a world series last year,

Unfortunately the business of baseball has made it difficult to to have a consistent team - like the Braves seemed to have in the 90’s. Time to rebuild and give new talent a chance.

Besides the fact that the Braves had a GREAT decade, why would free agents want to come to Atlanta? Simply because they rooted for the team growing up? Grew up in the South? Doesn’t appear to be a stable franchise … how much longer does Cox have? What about Pendelton taking over? The thought of that wouldn’t make me want to sign in Atlanta.

By robdawg08

November 18, 2008 4:46 PM | Link to this

Hey stamper, glad you joined in to criticize me. Now offer us your great wisdom on the Braves since you think I’m HIGH.

By Tomas

November 18, 2008 4:50 PM | Link to this

Used cars, I would prefer Jake Peavy, Aj Burnett, and Jack Wilson.

By McFann O –[zzz]

November 18, 2008 4:50 PM | Link to this

N Owl—

Yeah. That last post of mine was partially tongue-in-cheek. Steve is very correct.

Someday Mac will get a vote. We cann be sure of that.

The Muts, Phillies, and Marlins ALL have speed.

Hopefully that same guy who didn’t get a vote will cut down on that!

By Nocturnal Owl

November 18, 2008 4:51 PM | Link to this

The Braves need a power outfielder. Ludwick would fit. Elmer

Ya but not a sexy pick plus to throw in the loss of KJ. Not so hot.

By cabravesfan

November 18, 2008 4:51 PM | Link to this

How did Randy Johnson suddenly become a viable option? Is it just because he is a lefty? Because I cannot possibly think of another reason to pursue a 45 year old with a back back…

By robdawg08

November 18, 2008 4:54 PM | Link to this

I didn’t claim Escobar’s 5 tool status. Bobby Cox,Chipper Jones,Skip Caray,and Pete Van Weiren did that. I agree though. Speed doesn’t have to be 100 stolen bases per year. It can be 25 stolen bases per year. But the player has to be asked to run and Escobar was batting 2nd with Chipper and Tex behind him last year. Just because players don’t steal bases doesn’t mean that they can’t. The Braves were a 3 homerun team last year instead of a running team. Kelly Johnson and Francoeur can both run well too.

By N8

November 18, 2008 4:54 PM | Link to this

si.com is reporting that the Mets are leaning towards going after K-Rod as their main “target” this off-season.

Yikes.

One only has to do some simple math to realize that K-Rod being added to the Mets woeful bullpen and Brad Lidge more than likely, NOT being perfect two years in a row, just might be the difference maker in the race for NL East supremacy.

I realize that it’s November and many other moves/injuries will occur in the next months (including during the season), but that was HUGE in deciding the NL East race this year.

Don’t believe me? The Phillies were 2nd in the league with 47 saves. The Mets were 5th with 43.

That alone right there was enough of a difference to make up the 3 games that separated them in the standings.

However, when looking at blown saves, the Mets were 2nd in the league with 29 of them. The Phillies? Last (best) in the leauge with 15 of them.

Yes, I realize that the Mets more than likely won some of the games that they blew saves in, and possibly even STILL recorded a save later in that same game. But still….

As for the Braves? The finished dead last in the NL with 26 saves, but were 14th (3rd best) in the NL with 18 blown saves, finishing 20 games behind the Phillies.

15 blown saves (when your team records 47 of them), isn’t that big of a deal. Recording 18 blown saves, and ONLY having 26 actual saves is pretty damn pathetic.

Perhaps the Braves should persue K-Rod. LOL! I’m sure he’s JUMP at the oportunity to jump aboard this sinking ship.

By ppaddy123

November 18, 2008 4:57 PM | Link to this

By robdawg08 November 18, 2008 4:38 PM But its also shocking that the Braves are so close to being a top team (3 more good players) yet won’t (or seemingly won’t) get those three more players to be competitive.

That’s just a moronic statement. Wren has stated he WILL sign 2 starting front of the rotation pitchers and an out fielder with power. With the exception of the Yankees throwing their check book around (Sabathia and Burnett) who else has been as active as the Braves front office. Sure some minor trades have taken place, and Dempster re-signed with the Cubs (said all along that’s what he wanted), what where is the BLOCKBUSTER deal the Braves have missed out on? It hasn’t happened, Dude.

By Josh H

November 18, 2008 4:58 PM | Link to this

robdawg08:

How is Escobar a five tool player?

Speed? Escobar stole 2 bases last year. He was caught stealing 5 times. Definitely not a speed guy.

Power? He hit ten homers this year. Yeah, okay, he might have 20 homer potential. But he hasn’t tapped into that yet.

Yeah, he has an arm, he can hit for average and he’s definitely a good defender. But five stars? Not quite.

By TennesseePaul

November 18, 2008 4:59 PM | Link to this

Ted: Probably because you are missing the most important part in your splits. PETCO was only around since 2004. Peavy has been around since 2002. His ERA for his career away from PETCO is 3.69

Secondly, you are including his entire career. He is headed right into his prime years. The best years of his life. So, take at look at what he has done compared to the rest of the league over the last 5 seasons:

       Outside PETCO |   At PETCO
Season Peavy  League | Peavy League
2008    4.28    4.34 |  1.74   3.55
2007    2.57    4.50 |  2.51   3.40
2006    4.57    4.54 |  3.75   3.76
2005    2.98    4.27 |  2.81   3.61
2004    2.33    4.34 |  2.21   3.91
---------------------|-------------
Total   3.31    4.40 |  2.66   3.64

He has been over a full run better than the rest of the league away from PETCO. Another way of saying it, in the last five years, without PETCO he is a 3.31 ERA pitcher.
Another means of looking at it, use ERA+, it is the value of a “neutral” park. He is 21% better than the league over his career. Over the last few years this number is closer to 35% better than the rest of the league.

AJ Burnett doesn’t give you that. He does take up considerable money, age a lot faster, and brings a legitimate injury history, as opposed to Peavy’s hinted at history.

By robdawg08

November 18, 2008 5:00 PM | Link to this

I remember Bob Costas was interviewing at batting practice with Wade Boggs one year (Red Sox years) and Boggs was slashing balls into the gaps and all over the field for singles and doubles. Costas asked him “Can you hit for power ?” Boggs replied “Yes. But if I did hit a lot of homeruns my average would drop to around .270 to .280 and I’d rather hit .300 to .340 every year.” Then Boggs hit the next 15 of 20 pitches over the fence to prove it.

By David O'Brien

November 18, 2008 5:00 PM | Link to this

You guys see the story about Cuban being accused of insider trading by the feds? Wonder if baseball owners and/or Selig might have known that was coming down the piike?

He’s biggest name accused of insider trading since Martha Stewart, whose alleged profits from it absolutely pale next to how much Cuban allegedly made (or avoided losing, however you want to put it).

And we know what happened to Martha.

By Old Timer

November 18, 2008 5:01 PM | Link to this

The one item of cost that is being overlooked for Peavy is the cost of a new shortstop. When you add that cost in, Peavy is not that good of a deal financially. And that gives the Braves that much less to add to a still inadequate pitching staff and/or add to the powerless and unproductive outfield.

By Braveheart

November 18, 2008 5:02 PM | Link to this

I’m coming around a bit to the idea of Burnett. If Jake was a free agent today and got a five year contract, he’d likely get 5 years, $115 million (maybe $125). Burnett’s intrinsic value based on projections is about 5 years, $65 million. Combined as free agents, they should be making around $180 million over the next five seasons.

Peavy’s income, however, over the next five years is somewhat fixed at $81 million. That gives the Braves about $100 million extra to give Burnett. What if the Braves act crazy and ultra-aggressive and blow the Yankees out of the water by offering Burnett 5 years, $100 million? The idea would be that the $30 million you save on Jake could be used to overspend on Burnett by $30 million.

It would be a helluva gamble, a reckless move the Braves never make. It would give the Braves alot of leverage with San Diego as well. Once they land Burnett, they don’t need to make the trade as much. They can always say, well, we got the one big arm we were looking for this offseason. If you don’t want to be reasonable, then, well, we’lll just go sign a few of them old timers floating around. Why will we be content to do that? ‘Cause you told us to do so with your actions in these trade negotiations. You told us that you agree with us that our young arms are so darn special that you couldn’t trade Jake without getting one or two or three of them. So, you know what? We don’t want him anymore. We’re just gonna take your advice, sign some old fogies to bridge us over to when these kids you love too much are ready to win for us. Or you can give us peavy …… but just know that you’re not getting escobar anymore

Of course,if you don’t get Jake, then you’re stuck giving Burnett $35 extra million he doesn’t deserve but, oh, friggin’ well. If he never gets better or worse, Jair will be underpaid by about $30 million the next two seasons and $50 million over the next five seasons anyway, so you’ll recover your cost there …. yeah, something like that

By Peter Mariano

November 18, 2008 5:03 PM | Link to this

DOB…knowing that Escobar has some attitude problems do you think that if somehow he dosnt get traded do you think he will cause problems this year?

By Mike

November 18, 2008 5:04 PM | Link to this

Hey Marv Kleeman, you’re not serious are you? Get a clue bud. This team needs to shake things up a bit. JoJo is garbage and not needed.

By Mark Cuban

November 18, 2008 5:05 PM | Link to this

Trade Francoeur THIS winter. Cut bait or lose all. Oh, and I wasn’t here, k?

By TennesseePaul

November 18, 2008 5:05 PM | Link to this

Braves should do all in their power to avoid K-Rod at all costs. I don’t know what to watch that guy sacrificing chickens on the mound for Atlanta. He is the most ridiculous closer to date. Lives on the edge. Had a helluva walk year in terms of saves volume, but I question him going forward. I have yet to go to an Angels game where he didn’t find a way to turn a 3 run lead into a 1 run lead with the bases loaded before a miracle play brought the game to an end. Chicken feathers every where.

By royceb

November 18, 2008 5:06 PM | Link to this

If Ludwick is so good then why are the Cardinals so happy to unload him?

By Josh H

November 18, 2008 5:06 PM | Link to this

robdawg08:

I’m not much of a scout. But it just seems to me that Escobar is more “quick” than he is “fast”. He can move quickly. But he just doesn’t seem to have that top end speed. Going back to 2005, he’s never had more than 7 stolen bases in a year.

I remember watching him hit a double once. He has a large stride but just doesn’t move very fast. He doesn’t hit many triples, and really doesn’t have that many doubles.

Don’t get me wrong. Escobar will usually give you a solid at bat without striking out. And he’s incredible defensively. But he’s not a speed demon or a home-run hitter.

Again, I’m not a scout and I could be wrong. Can’t comment on the Bobby Cox, Chipper Jones quotes on a 5 star status. Not going to argue there.

I really just think that I’m getting annoyed with that “5 tool player” saying getting thrown around too much. Like saying Gorkys Hernandez is a 5 tool guy. Not a knock against you in particular.

By BT

November 18, 2008 5:06 PM | Link to this

Give Randy Johnson a couple of more years and he will be old enough for the Braves staff.

By ppaddy123

November 18, 2008 5:09 PM | Link to this

N8, Why did the Braves have such a woeful bullpen in 08? Moylen, gone. Soriano, gone. Gonzolez missed 1/2 season. 3/5 of the starting rotation, gone. Bullpen stretched to the limit. 2009 will bring hope eternal. Everyone will start opening day tied for 1st. However, this year, the Braves will have Moylen, Soriano, Gonzolez, Ohmen (maybe) and Smoltz (hopefully) in what should be one of the toughest bullpens in the NL.

By Nocturnal Owl

November 18, 2008 5:10 PM | Link to this

Raddad, the person or persons you’re referring to must be confounded by the fact that that one of the Braves’ two absolute untouchables is OF Jason Heyward, huh? DOB

Regarding the absolute untouchables, Don’t we have to throw in Freeman to have 3 true untouchables?

Hampton divorcing? Guess wife;s all upset he had to finally leave home and work…

By Josh H

November 18, 2008 5:10 PM | Link to this

N8:

We didn’t have a closer until Gonzo came back. Moylan went down. We were closing by committee with Boyer, Acosta, Resop, etc. Not exactly the ideal situation.

I think Gonzo blew what, one save at the end of the year? Of course the rest of the bullpen was depleted at that point.

But you did touch on a valid point. Braves really didn’t have that many save situations last year. We had a tendency to hit and blow opponents out, but then lose lots of one run games, usually when we were behind. Have to get more consistent both in the bullpen and at the plate.

By Phillip

November 18, 2008 5:12 PM | Link to this

Mike Freaking Hampton! Waiting for other offers, huh? Hampton has “stolen” money from Braves Organization for last three years - he just now is in a position to maybe possibly help the Braves - and now he’s ready to bolt! Hampton should play three more years for FREE! just to pay Braves back…….yes, I know in the real world of guaranteed contracts that it does not work that way - but that bites1!!!!

By Andrew

November 18, 2008 5:15 PM | Link to this

Blow up the Braves and start fresh from the farm and trades. Get Cox and Pendelton out of there and anyone else that doesn’t fit a team approach.

Build around Jurrians and McCann and bring up the youngsters

By TennesseePaul

November 18, 2008 5:15 PM | Link to this

And we know what happened to Martha.

Yes. That Billionaire avoided losing 60 grand through circumstantial evidence and wound up baking cookies in her house for a few months with an uncomfortable ankle bracelet.

I don’t think Cuban knows how to cook… food that is.

By Patrick

November 18, 2008 5:16 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Did you read Bowman’s latest blog?

Why is he so contradictory to you sometimes??

By DAP

November 18, 2008 5:17 PM | Link to this

If Ludwick is so good then why are the Cardinals so happy to unload him?

where do people get stuff like this? why does a player going on the trading block automatically mean “he isnt worth having or the other team wouldnt trade him?” thats not how it works in the real world.

there has been one mention of ludwick getting traded all off season. just one. no cardinal front office folks begging on thier knees for someone to take him, no offers of scott thorman for ludwick…geez.

By David O'Brien

November 18, 2008 5:18 PM | Link to this

So what are you truly going to get out of Peavy at $16MM/year for 5 years (and I would expect his option to be picked up as a condition to waive his no-trade) that you might not get out of Burnett for $16MM/year for 5 years? Durability? Perhaps. Ted

You tell me. Here were their records and innings over the five seasons before 2008:

Burnett

2003: 0-2, 4.70 ERA, 23 innings

2004: 7-6, 3.68 ERA, 120 innings

2005: 12-12, 3.44 ERA, 209 innings

2006: 10-8, 3.98 ERA, 135-2/3 innings

2007: 10-8, 3.75 ERA, 135-2/3 innings

Peavy

2003: 12-11, 4.11 ERA, 194-2/3 innings

2004: 15-6, 2.27 ERA, 166-1/3 innings

2005: 13-7, 2.88 ERA, 203 innings

2006: 11-14, 4.09 ERA, 202-1/3 innings

2007: 19-6, 2.54 ERA, 223-1/3 innings.

Also, Ted, we have discussed Peavy’s home/road splits on numerous occasions here, so I can only assume you’ve not been reading the ol’ blog since all this began last month.

Anyway, yes, most here are fully aware of his home/road splits.

Hey, by the way: Derek Lowe was 9-5 with a 2.30 ERA in 17 starts this season at pitcher-friendly Dodger Stadium, and 5-6 with a 4.42 ERA in 17 starts everywhere else.

For his career, Lowe is 76-47 with a 3.26 ERA at home, and 50-60 with a 4.25 ERA on the road. Ten games under .500 with an ERA a full run higher on the road.

So how much should be made of that?

By David O'Brien

November 18, 2008 5:19 PM | Link to this

Owl: Ouch, that line about Hampton…

By Darren

November 18, 2008 5:19 PM | Link to this

Awwwhhh. Gates Barbeque in Kansas City. My mouth is watering just thinking about that Dave. I’m jealous. I’m from Las Vegas but spend two years in Kansas City when I was 19 and 20. I never ate better in my life.

By Braveheart

November 18, 2008 5:21 PM | Link to this

How did Randy Johnson suddenly become a viable option? Is it just because he is a lefty? Because I cannot possibly think of another reason to pursue a 45 year old with a back back

$10 million, one year, 180 innings, league average ERA, 11 wins, 10 losses on an average scoring team, 12 wins, 9 losses on a 5 run scoring team. The limited years and money would give you much roster and financial flexibility next season. He wants somewhere to go to win 300. The Braves were the first team to draft him as a high schooler way back in 1982. Would be a cool way to finish the career 27 years later with the team that first drafted him (even if he never signed). But the bottomline is the huge benefit he gives in limited years and money. He’s not great anymore but doesn’t need to be. Just average will be good enough.

By Eric B

November 18, 2008 5:21 PM | Link to this

To get Jake Peavy the Braves would have to trade Yunel Escobar, Jeff Locke, Gorkys Hernandez, Blaine Boyer, and Charlie Morton.

To get Francisco Liriano the Braves would have to trade Yunel Escobar, and Charlie Morton.

To get Scott Baker the Braves would have to trade Yunel Escobar, and Charlie Morton.

To get Aaron Harang the Braves would have to trade Jordan Schafer, Jeff Locke or Charlie Morton, and Blaine Boyer.

TomasIf we could actually get Harang for that price I’m all for it. we could still trade KJ or Escobar and a minor leaguer to get another arm or the outfielder need…then offer Burnett the same 5 years and 80 million to come to the NL and be dominant again with Harang and JJ at the top of the rotation. If escobar goes in a trade then sign furcal…sounds like he’ll come back, he still has a house in A town.

By skull

November 18, 2008 5:22 PM | Link to this

royceb

If Ludwick is so good then why are the Cardinals so happy to unload him?

As for your question, let me rephrase it.

If Yunel is so good then why are the Braves so happy to unload him?

I don’t advocate either but maybe it’s because each team thinks it can fulfill a bigger need in return?

Sure makes for great blogging though.

By ppaddy123

November 18, 2008 5:23 PM | Link to this

By Mike November 18, 2008 5:04 PM Hey Marv Kleeman, you’re not serious are you? Get a clue bud. This team needs to shake things up a bit. JoJo is garbage and not needed.

Guys like you really TICK me off! You’re not a fan of the game! You want to associate yourself with the best team, but when they slip, you make your judgemental statements. Truth of the matter is: JoJo probably isn’t ready for the majors. But because of the Braves desperate pitching needs of the past 2 years, he was forced to the majors. Do us all a favor and keep those “garbage ” statements to yourself!

By David O'Brien

November 18, 2008 5:23 PM | Link to this

royceb: Because they’ve got a serious middle-infield need and feel they can get by without Ludwick, and because they, like most teams, would like to trade a player when his trade value’s at its highest, which Ludwick’s is right now and might never be as high again, considering his injury history

(Trading high, as opposed to, say, trading Francoeur right now, when his value is the lowest it’s ever been.)

By MWC

November 18, 2008 5:26 PM | Link to this

Philip is right on target. Iy’s been out of control too long

By Andrew

November 18, 2008 5:26 PM | Link to this

How many wins could the Braves realistically expect from the Hansen if he came up next year?

By David O'Brien

November 18, 2008 5:26 PM | Link to this

TennesseePaul, excellent post at 4:59. And how you make those neat charts on the blog is beyond me.

Very good point about Petco only being open since 2004, by the way. That’s always overlooked.

By dannycardwell

November 18, 2008 5:28 PM | Link to this

i find it very interesting that any one would want furcal back after back surgury. seems like we already have enough problems without spending a load on a bad back. im also inclined to keep the fam intact and watch our own young arms grow at the major league level. wren sold the fans out getting rid of tex while there was still hope. i would rather go with what i have and watch them grow just as they did in 1990-1991. keep flowers too. he can learn other positions when not spelling mac behind the plate.

By Eric B

November 18, 2008 5:32 PM | Link to this

“To get Aaron Harang the Braves would have to trade Jordan Schafer, Jeff Locke or Charlie Morton, and Blaine Boyer”.

Tomas… if we could do that I’d pull the trigger in a heartbeat, not sure if the Reds would actually accept that though. Harang, despite a rocky 07, has good stuff and we could keep Escobar and trade KJ and someone else for the OF we need. After that I’d match the yankees offer for AJ. We would have kept our untouchables, one of two good CF prospects, and a top notch SS while adding two front end pitchers and a bat for the OF.

By elliwg6

November 18, 2008 5:33 PM | Link to this

tennesseepaul

excellent post. i feel like the people on this blog are split into 2 groups.

the people who know that Peavy is a good pitcher and will you any of hits stats to prove it.

the people who just think he is a Petco generated pitcher and don’t actually look at states.

hopefully you can win a few people over

By Mike Honcho

November 18, 2008 5:39 PM | Link to this

What’s with all the doom and gloom on this blog about the Braves. A sinking ship, you really can’t get any more sunk than 90 losses, after that you are just talking semantics.

I mean seriously…this past season…we were a darkhorse pick for the World Series. Is there really anyone in the National League that you feel we just can’t compete with? It would be one thing if we had the leadership of the Padres running our club, but it seems to me that the Frank Wren era is off to a good start. He is capable and has made some solid moves so far.

As far as the Yankees go, who cares?!? Is there anyone out there that really believes their theory of baseball economics and team building is actually going to win this decade? Seriously if you put money down would you bet against a hungry, young talented team like the Rays over a fat de-incentivized team like the Yankees? If you are then I would like to discuss a wager outside of the confines of this blog…

And if you seriously believe that the Braves can’t compete next year with some of the changes that we’ve been discussing ad nauseum on the Old MiB Blog…then you are miserable creatures and do not deserve the endearing sobriquet of Braves Fan.

A Braves Fan knows that Francisco Cabrera is perhaps the most clutch hitter of all time, that at any point Sid Bream can summon 4.2 40 speed to outrun Barry Bond’s arm, that Bobby Cox’s tears cure cancer but it’s too bad that he never cries, that Craig McMurtry was voted People’s Sexiest Man Alive for a reason, every Guy Fawkes day burns an effigy of Jim Leyritz, wishes that God had chosen Steve Avery’s problematic rib to give to Eve because without that injury he would have been a Hall of Famer. A Braves Fan misses the chance to ask Skip about the infield fly rule, knows that the double arm tomahawk chop done by Jane Fonda is a cultural faux pas on the level of asking a British chick to dance the Shag, actually appreciates Chipper Jones, realizes that they just didn’t enjoy the Big Three like they should have…

…and of course a Braves Fan always believes that next year is our year because we are the Atlanta mother freakin’ tomahawkin 14 straight division title winnin’…Braves.

Next year I fully expect to write the Phillies a thank you note for keeping our throne warm for a couple of years.

And I’m spent. Love, Honcho

By Braves Fan in PA

November 18, 2008 5:45 PM | Link to this

I enjoy reading Dave O’brien’s comments but I think he is blinding looking at the Peavy thing.

First, I don’t think you can look at it as Peavy vs. what a free agent SP salary is. OK Peavy is cheaper than a comparable SP out there no doubt. But you have to look at what it costs to replace the other pieces being asked for, if the reports are accurate, namely what will it cost to sign a SS (much more then Escobar’s 2009 salary) then to get a #4-5 starter and a middle reliever/setup man and a top prospect. This doesn’t even consider the cost to develop equal talent that we are giving up vs. the draft pick of signing a free agent.

Second, I think GM’s are starting and will soon realize to more of degree the higher value an early stage player has vs. an older player with comparable talent. Especially as budgets and spending become more of an issue. If a GM can pay say 20-30% of the cost at one position (SS in this case) it allows them to pay market prices for a free agent at another position. Therefore I think a player in his first couple years (especially before arbitration) is worth considerably more in trade then their value as a player. I don’t have a formula (perhaps the A’s do :)) but it should add considerably to their value.

Third, unless Escobar is really terrible in the clubhouse (and I think the reports of Bobby being disenchanted with him are exaggerated to at least some degree) it will be hard to find a replacement shortstop at his level (never mind that it will cost more). So yes we may be improving at SP but we are weaker at SS. Even if they are disenchanted with Escobar t at least get more for him! He should be valued at a fraction of Peavy!

What I would do is pay 14-15 million for someone like Burnett (I know the Yankess offered more but those are Yankee dollars and they aren’t the same because of higher living costs and some players not wanting to live there). OK we give up a draft pick but we keep a GREAT cheap short stop, still have a #4-5 pitcher to use in trade and a decent middle/setup reliever (Boyer was way overworked last year)! Compare that to signing Peavy and say someone like Renteria. Those two salaries would be more then Burnett+Escobar and while I may concede Peavy is a strong SP we would be weaker at SS and there is a risk Renteria has really deteriorated. Plus we still have cost saving at SS going forward a few years and still have some pitchers that could develop along with a potential star Outfield a few years away (or good trade bait).

OK keep up the good work Dave just please don’t fall in love with Peavy too much we can do with an above SP or two and not trade away talent at desperation prices.

By McFann O –[zzz]

November 18, 2008 5:45 PM | Link to this

And how you make those neat charts on the blog is beyond me.

I’ve always wondered how he does that, too.

10Paul—

How do you do that? Also, how do you get that different type font?

By vic

November 18, 2008 5:47 PM | Link to this

DOB- This morning Cuban said he was set up by SEC. He’s Not guilty and will prove it.

If I remember correct Martha Steward was found guilty* for lying* to jury about insider trading.

Money talks and Cuban walk. Bet on it. You are me and we’d be in Folson prison, singing JC Folson prison Blues.

By Braves Fan in PA

November 18, 2008 5:48 PM | Link to this

I enjoy reading Dave O’brien’s comments but I think he is blinding looking at the Peavy thing.

First, I don’t think you can look at it as Peavy vs. what a free agent SP salary is. OK Peavy is cheaper than a comparable SP out there no doubt. But you have to look at what it costs to replace the other pieces being asked for, if the reports are accurate, namely what will it cost to sign a SS (much more then Escobar’s 2009 salary) then to get a #4-5 starter and a middle reliever/setup man and a top prospect. This doesn’t even consider the cost to develop equal talent that we are giving up vs. the draft pick of signing a free agent.

Second, I think GM’s are starting and will soon realize to more of degree the higher value an early stage player has vs. an older player with comparable talent. Especially as budgets and spending become more of an issue. If a GM can pay say 20-30% of the cost at one position (SS in this case) it allows them to pay market prices for a free agent at another position. Therefore I think a player in his first couple years (especially before arbitration) is worth considerably more in trade then their value as a player. I don’t have a formula (perhaps the A’s do :)) but it should add considerably to their value.

Third, unless Escobar is really terrible in the clubhouse (and I think the reports of Bobby being disenchanted with him are exaggerated to at least some degree) it will be hard to find a replacement shortstop at his level (never mind that it will cost more). So yes we may be improving at SP but we are weaker at SS. Even if they are disenchanted with Escobar t at least get more for him! He should be valued at a fraction of Peavy!

What I would do is pay 14-15 million for someone like Burnett (I know the Yankess offered more but those are Yankee dollars and they aren’t the same because of higher living costs and some players not wanting to live there). OK we give up a draft pick but we keep a GREAT cheap short stop, still have a #4-5 pitcher to use in trade and a decent middle/setup reliever (Boyer was way overworked last year)! Compare that to signing Peavy and say someone like Renteria. Those two salaries would be more then Burnett+Escobar and while I may concede Peavy is a strong SP we would be weaker at SS and there is a risk Renteria has really deteriorated. Plus we still have cost saving at SS going forward a few years and still have some pitchers that could develop along with a potential star Outfield a few years away (or good trade bait).

OK keep up the good work Dave just please don’t fall in love with Peavy too much we can do with an above SP or two and not trade away talent at desperation prices.

By nolie

November 18, 2008 5:51 PM | Link to this

November 18, 2008 9:29 AM | Link to this

I think Flowers could be with the big club come this year. Case and point Jeff Francouer played about 1/2 the season in AA and was called up and lit it up in the final months of the season.Roach

There are some significant differences between the two situations. The Braves were desperate fo an outfielder that year, they are not desperate for a catcher this year. Frenchy was gonna play full time from the start, if Mac stays healthy, Flowers would not. Outfield is an easier position to learn and to play, so on the job training in the bigs is acceptable. Catcher is the one of the toughest positions to play, it needs a lot of practice to get down pat and Flowers still needs work on it. Work he will not get playing every 5th day or so in Atlanta.

If Mac had to be out for awhile,God forbid, they might bring Flowers up if he is playing well , but as a back-up catcher it is very unlikely to happen. The guy needs to play regularly at this point. So many posters see a real young player get hot in the fall or spring and start thinking he should be up. Look how well Schafer did last fall. The list goes on and on.I’d say that there is a very small chance,barring injury, that they bring him up…and thats if they haven’t already traded him off.

I am a big Flowers fan, but he needs seasoning and continued practice at game calling too. Many young catchers grow up now days with a coach or manager calling all the pitches, right through HS and even college. Much more so than in my days as a catcher, so they most need additional work on that skill too. It might happen, but the odds are well against it.

By George S. Patton

November 18, 2008 5:52 PM | Link to this

Honcho, that’s not half bad.

By Sam

November 18, 2008 5:52 PM | Link to this

I know it’s early but doesn’t it seem that the more time that goes by San Diego gets the upper hand when other pitchers are being signed? What will it take to get this deal done? I don’t want to give the away the farm but Hanson, Morton and Escobar seem reasonable for a guy like Peavy! Heck I would through in Jo Jo if another Burnett gets taken.

By Braveheart

November 18, 2008 5:56 PM | Link to this

So which Hollywood actor is gonna play the coach who delivers the rah-rah speech Mike Honcho gave at 5:39?

After reading that 5:39, are the black and white bloggers, after days of hating each other, supposed to give each a knowing look and smile before they start dancing half naked in the lockerroom to “Ain’t No Mountain High Enough”? Will 100% Real tell Eric from Mo to give him five on the black hand side?

Wooh, that was inspirational! Would love to see and hear Daniel Day Lewis at his overacting best delivering that speech!

By Joe M.

November 18, 2008 5:56 PM | Link to this

Dempster signed with the Cubs. Check that option off the list.

From Peter Gammons yesterday:

The Braves’ deal for Jake Peavy is not dead. Sending Jose Ceda to Florida lessened the Cubs’ chances. The Yankees are not in the running at all. Frank Wren still believes the Braves will get this trade done.”

By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)

November 18, 2008 5:57 PM | Link to this

Um, I hate to say it, but the last time I checked, Mike Hampton was healthy.

Peavy on the brain, O’Brien? I mean ,really. It’s getting old.

Just for reference, Johan Santana was in the same exact situation one year ago, Then, after the Yankees and Mets dragged their feet, the Mets swooped in and stole the best lefty in the game.

Yunel Escobar is in Bobby’s doghouse. That much is evident and Cox want’s the young SS gone. Unfortunately, I think Kevin Towers is aware of the situation. The Braves are gonna have to say uncle sooner or later. Otherwise, Peavy will end up somewhere else besides San Deigo or Atlanta.

At any rate, it’s November 18th and the Braves have accomplished nothing as of yet. Just for reference, the Braves had picked up Jair Jurrjens one day after the season ended and Tom Glavine was signed November 19th. Dear Frank Wren, beggars can’t be choosers.

By Lou Vales

November 18, 2008 5:59 PM | Link to this

Dear David, Please check out the Peter Gammons’ story on ESPN, The NY Times lead story in Sunday’s paper, The Washington Post story on Saturday, The Detroit Free Press stories every day, The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette story—ALL related to the DRACONIAN impact on baseball this upcomong year. Now I’m aware the Yankees are being the Yankees, BUT they are a unique entity. With the loss of 200,000 jobs in NYC due to GEM(Global Economic Meltdown) even the Mets will be resticted. It’s not only about to hit the fan, but the fan has been turned up and the nasty stuff will be landing everywhere. WHO could have ever predicted this a few months ago?? Ah, but it’s business as usual. Well, maybe for a few, it’s business as usual, but for 80 percent it’s going to be a surprise.

By tr

November 18, 2008 5:59 PM | Link to this

Just because a “name” hasn’t been (or barely been) mentioned doesn’t mean that there are no other great ideas out there.

For instance, the Twins waited forever to recall a red-hot (in the high minors on an absurdly long “rehab assignment) Francisco Liriano, and might be open to a trade discussion.

With a full rotation of good young starters in the fold and an even better David Price likely to grab a spot in 2009, maybe the Rays would part with one of their surplus starters.

The point is - there are actually a LOT of good options available if we are patient and remember that very little has actually happened (Dempster signed and some supposed offers from the Yanks) yet to rearrange or give up on our team’s stated goals for the off-season!

Enjoy the process!

Worst case, at least one or two of the following is BOUND to happen: 1) Hanson pitches so well in SP that we can’t send him down to start the season; 2) Morton matures and develops; 3) Hampton is healthy, effective and affordable; 4) Chuck James’ shoulder is finally healthy and he’s back on track; 5) Reyes removes his head from whatever crevice it’s been hiding in and he delivers on his potential; 6) Smoltz shows up in camp and is a HOF starter again; 7) Glavine is healthy and motivated to finish his HOF career on a high note; 8) Hudson returns after the break and discovers that his inconsistencies were the product of an elbow problem he didn’t even realize was a problem until an MRI showed it late in the season.

And that doesn’t even include Jair Jurrjens, James Parr, Jorge Campillo, Jeff Bennett, Buddy Carlyle, or Anthony Lerew!

By Wayne

November 18, 2008 6:00 PM | Link to this

Sam You just touched the “Hanson third rail” my man.

:-)

By Ebravesluvr

November 18, 2008 6:01 PM | Link to this

Mike Hampton is going through a divorce??? Give that man my number, DOB!!!

In all seriousness though, I hope we do somehow sign him for a lesser, incentive-laden contract. I think he’d be a good 4th starter for us this year. Plus, I’ve been a huge fan of him since the first year he signed with us (and his staunchest supporter when most of all other Braves fans fell by the wayside).

I can’t lose Mike AND Yunel in the same offseason :-(

By David O'Brien

November 18, 2008 6:01 PM | Link to this

Vic, good point about Cuban vis-a-vis Martha. She was found guilty of obstructing justice and lying to investigators.

Of course, if Cuban did what the feds say he did, and denies it…

Well, anyway, good point.

By ppaddy123

November 18, 2008 6:03 PM | Link to this

By Mike Honcho November 18, 2008 5:39 PM A Braves Fan knows that Francisco Cabrera is perhaps the most clutch hitter of all time, that at any point Sid Bream can summon 4.2 40 speed to outrun Barry Bond’s arm, that Bobby Cox’s tears cure cancer but it’s too bad that he never cries, that Craig McMurtry was voted People’s Sexiest Man Alive for a reason, every Guy Fawkes day burns an effigy of Jim Leyritz, wishes that God had chosen Steve Avery’s problematic rib to give to Eve because without that injury he would have been a Hall of Famer. A Braves Fan misses the chance to ask Skip about the infield fly rule, knows that the double arm tomahawk chop done by Jane Fonda is a cultural faux pas on the level of asking a British chick to dance the Shag, actually appreciates Chipper Jones, realizes that they just didn’t enjoy the Big Three like they should have……and of course a Braves Fan always believes that next year is our year because we are the Atlanta mother freakin’ tomahawkin 14 straight division title winnin’…Braves. Next year I fully expect to write the Phillies a thank you note for keeping our throne warm for a couple of years.

AMEN

And I’m spent. Love, Honcho

By brent a.

November 18, 2008 6:06 PM | Link to this

I just saw DeKalb County commissioner, Elaine Boyer on the TV. If I were Kevin Towers, I wouldn’t want her either.

By Tomas

November 18, 2008 6:09 PM | Link to this

Now Kevin Towers, realized that there was not another willing to offer as much as the Braves had. With Dempster, now the Cubs have no need to trade for Peavy, and there focuse will be 2B, and the outfield. The Yankees are not willing to give Phillip Hughes, and the Angels already have 4 very good starters, and are looking for another decent starter not an ace. The Redsox, have a lot of pitching already, and would rather sign a FA before trading a lot of their good prospects for Peavy

The Cubs, Redsox, Angels, Astros, and Yankees are out of the picture. The Mets certainly don’t have the trade pieces to get Peavy.

So I see the Dodgers, Phillies, Braves, Whitesox, and Cardinals seem like the most logical landing sites for Jake Peavy.

The Dodgers are certainly interested, and they have the talent the Padres want, but the Padres would rather not trade him to an nl west rival.

The Phillies I think have the talent in the minors, to get Peavy, but I don’t think he would like to pitch in that bang box in philadelfia.

The Whitesox would want Peavy, and I think Peavy might waive his no trade clause to go to Chicago, but I don’t think they would have a good enough package to offer the Padres.

The Cardinals need a starter, Peavy would pitch for St louis but the Cardinals don’t have major league ready pitching to offer the Padres, nor a middle infielder.

The Braves need a starter, is on the nl east, Peavy would like to pitch for Atlanta, and Atlanta has the talent to give the Padre what they want.

The most logical choice is the Braves, so why the hell does Kevin Towers doesn’t just stop wasting time and agree to a deal with the Braves. They’re getting a potential allstar SS, one of the best CF prospect in the minors, Charlie Morton who will begin in the majors next year, and Blaine Boyer a relief pitcher with very good stuff.

By ppaddy123

November 18, 2008 6:09 PM | Link to this

By tr November 18, 2008 5:59 PMWorst case, at least one or two of the following is BOUND to happen: 1) Hanson pitches so well in SP that we can’t send him down to start the season; 2) Morton matures and develops; 3) Hampton is healthy, effective and affordable; 4) Chuck James’ shoulder is finally healthy and he’s back on track; 5) Reyes removes his head from whatever crevice it’s been hiding in and he delivers on his potential; 6) Smoltz shows up in camp and is a HOF starter again; 7) Glavine is healthy and motivated to finish his HOF career on a high note; 8) Hudson returns after the break and discovers that his inconsistencies were the product of an elbow problem he didn’t even realize was a problem until an MRI showed it late in the season. And that doesn’t even include Jair Jurrjens, James Parr, Jorge Campillo, Jeff Bennett, Buddy Carlyle, or Anthony Lerew!

Man! I think I need some of the stuff you’ve been smokin’!

By Nocturnal Owl

November 18, 2008 6:10 PM | Link to this

Peavy on the brain, O’Brien? I mean ,really. It’s getting old Coach

Getting old? Last time I checked Padres still had Peavy under possession and want to deal him. Old news for you chump.

By Nocturnal Owl

November 18, 2008 6:11 PM | Link to this

Welcome back DOB

By David O'Brien

November 18, 2008 6:16 PM | Link to this

She thinks she’s not proud of the affair? I’m guessing Clemens sould concur Clemens/McCready affair story

By spotts

November 18, 2008 6:18 PM | Link to this

Anybody see Phil Sheridan’s article whining about how Pujols won the MVP, even though Ryan Howard was the obvious choice?

http://www.philly.com/inquirer/sports/20081118PhilSheridan_MVPvotingisoutofwhack.html

I guess Phil forgot about Howard’s .251 average (.106 points lower than Pujols’). Or his 199 Ks (ties his own record for 2nd all time).

I seem to remember another player a few years back who lost the MVP to Pujols because of his terrible average, despite leading the league in HR and RBI.

By David O'Brien

November 18, 2008 6:24 PM | Link to this

Coach, if you don’t want to read about Peavy, then skip it and just comment. But sorry, as long as it’s still possible (and in my view, it is very much so until he’s traded elsewhere), I’m going to write about it. This is the first blog I’ve written in nearly a week, and there have been a few developments in the situation since I last addressed it, as you might have noticed. To ignore the issue would be silly.

Oh, and yeah, it’s Nov. 18 and the Braves haven’t done a trade or signed a free agent. Did I miss something? Have a lot of free agents already signed, or a lot of trades already been finalized? What big deals have been finalized? How many free agents have signed with a team other than the one they were on in 2008?

By Robert

November 18, 2008 6:29 PM | Link to this

Do you think since the Padres might NEED to trade Peavy to Atlanta (no other decent package offered) that we could insist they take Kelly Johnson instead of Yunel Escobar.

By stop with hampton

November 18, 2008 6:30 PM | Link to this

Please stop with the Hampton talk. Why should the Braves ever plan on having him in the rotation. If he is healthy then let him compete in spring training. I know he can’t control injuries, but lets stay off of the Hampton bus. I’m not fooled by someone that pitched a few weeks out of several years. And oh by the way, those weeks came as the last few weeks of a contract, when he was needing to get another contract. Not calling him a faker, but seems he get tough all of a sudden. Please don’t count on him as part of the rotation unless he can win a spot in spring training!

By Couch Tater

November 18, 2008 6:32 PM | Link to this

Sorry if this has already been posted, but there is a radio interview with Kevin Towers on Gaslamp Ball. (you can listen while you blog here)

By Nocturnal Owl

November 18, 2008 6:43 PM | Link to this

There you go Coach have some more Peavy news. Its fun! Looks like others are talking about Peavy too. Here is what Heyman said today:

Braves GM Frank Wren bowed out of the long-running trade talks involving Padres star pitcher Jake Peavy a few days ago, but Wren didn’t appear to completely shut the door on Peavy and at least one National League executive said he still believes the Braves remain the most likely destination for Peavy

“He’ll wind up a Brave or Padre,” that exec predicted.

By Nocturnal Owl

November 18, 2008 6:44 PM | Link to this

Couch Tater Looks like Mark won’t finish the Peavy talks after all…Ha

By McFann O –[zzz]

November 18, 2008 6:46 PM | Link to this

Nolie @ 5:51—

Excellent points!

If Mac had to be out for awhile…

Oh! I hope not…

By David O'Brien

November 18, 2008 6:52 PM | Link to this

Just learned that Schafer hurt a finger in winter ball, got hit by a pitch, and he’s come home. Not broken, but it’s banged up and he’s supposed to rest it three weeks and then rehab it a few weeks.

He’s done for the winter, but he did himself a favor by going to play down there, left a good impression with the bosses. Wren told me Schafer played well while he was in Mexico.

Personally, I’ve just got a feeling he’ll win the CF job this spring. I could be wrong, for sure, but I’ve got that feeling.

By MizzouBravesFan

November 18, 2008 6:53 PM | Link to this

From Kevin Towers TODAY:

*So where does that leave the Padres?

Towers wouldn’t rule out the possibility of circling back around to the Braves, who last week said they were moving on after a deal couldn’t be reached.

“You never know … we certainly made more progress with them,” Towers said. “We were able to ID and agree upon a large part of the package.”*

LOL Towers is crawling back already because there is no other place to turn to…the Dempster signing ended the Cubs’ chances.

The entire “Yankees or Angels” bluff (that’s all it ever was) has been blown out of the water.

The Braves have always been and will continue to be the best option…Wren knows this…Towers knows this…Peavy and Axelrod know this. They’re all just playing the game.

By stop with hampton

November 18, 2008 6:55 PM | Link to this

Not meaning to sound as if I hate Hampton, but we counted on him being healthy last year. How did that work out? How about the year before? Really, missed that one too? As for the Peavy talk, I’m a believer that he will end up in Atlanta. And I don’t think he is going to block that because of losing Yunel. If Wren shows the grit to get Peavy, why would he stop short of getting what he said he wanted this off season. I’m sure Peavy could understand that also. DOB, just moved to Ohio and started reading your blog to help with my sports addiction. Keep up the good work! Its much appreciated!

By Joe M.

November 18, 2008 6:57 PM | Link to this

Mark Bowman: “Mike Hampton, Jon Garland, Randy Wolf and Oliver Perez are among the other free agent starting pitchers who could prove to be profitable gambles.”

Wow. What a downgrade.

I’d really rather the Braves not waste money on Oliver Perez. The Braves would be much better off saving that money for a July trading deadline acquisition or for next year’s offseason if they can’t find some other way to spend it. A multi-year signing for Oliver Perez would bring nothing but regret.

By Couch Tater

November 18, 2008 7:01 PM | Link to this

What was Roger Clemens song to enter the game? I’m guessing Trashy Women by Confederate Railroad.

By Joe M.

November 18, 2008 7:01 PM | Link to this

Towers wouldn’t rule out the possibility of circling back around to the Braves, who last week said they were moving on after a deal couldn’t be reached.

“You never know … we certainly made more progress with them,” Towers said. “We were able to ID and agree upon a large part of the package.”

“Please Frankie, I’m sorry. I know I jerked you around, but i can change. We can make this work.”

By David O'Brien

November 18, 2008 7:03 PM | Link to this

Wren said they’ve had a few talks, good communication, with Hampton’s agent, and that they don’t think he’ll do anything (sign anywhere) without Braves getting a chance to make a competitive offer or counter or whatever.

Wren also said they aren’t discouraged about the pitching market, said he doesn’t think there are going to be a rash of signings immediately, that there’s time, etc.

And when I asked if he’s had any communication with Towers in the last couple days, he said no.

By Nocturnal Owl

November 18, 2008 7:05 PM | Link to this

MizzouBravesFan LOL Towers is crawling back already

Funny and true!

Interesting how the larger part of package has been “ID” This has been a crazy roller coaster ride for sure.

DOB I’m with you Schafer plays in 09

By Donnie

November 18, 2008 7:09 PM | Link to this

DOB - Good reminder that there are many SP options available. What about the Rays as a potential trading partner? I’ve read rumors that Sonnanstine or Jackson might be available. Most of the discussion i’ve read has Tampa looking for outfielders, but they also need a closer. Perhaps a package around Soriano, BJ, and maybe a prospect might be of interest to the Rays. Sonnanstine looked like a very promising young hurler during the playoffs.

By ncscoots

November 18, 2008 7:11 PM | Link to this

I think Schafer could win the CF job at ST, too, if he shows he can hit lefties the least little bit. He looked OK, not great, against LHP late in his minor league season, but his winter stats show he had some more trouble down in Old Mexico (only a handful of AB, though, so it’s hard to draw too many inferences). A month at AAA probably wouldn’t hurt, but the other CF options surely don’t excite.

By rbfromTN

November 18, 2008 7:15 PM | Link to this

First, I really appreciate DOB’s blogs and so forth. Just the fact that Wren called him while he was in Block-freakin-buster to give him a scoop that none of us are afforded is in and of itself pretty cool (p.s. how do I get a job like that? maybe on the wrong path seeing as though I’m in Law School and all but oh well) … Furthermore, it has come to my attention that the Bravos will be a good team next year no matter if they get Peavy or not you see if they don’t they will then turn around and trade Yunel to somebody else (I promise they are already conjuring up something to this extent and as soon as something looks promising the Fathers will come back into the fold)

My guess is that Yunel ends up with somebody in the AL … heck I’ll even narrow it down from there and say the AL Central (Tigers or White Sox … Look for a Bonderman and Thames package going to the ATL or a Vazquez and Dye package)

Both pitchers are a downgrade from Peavy no doubt but Wren is still wet behind his ears as GM of the Braves and JS is still sitting right behind him he must do something to make a decent splash this winter (not meant to be disrespectful at all just the truth … he shouldn’t have laid out his plans “i need this this and this” before the offseason started )

By Frank

November 18, 2008 7:15 PM | Link to this

Hey Mr. O’Brien,

I live 20 miles east of Lawrence in a little farming community here in Kansas. When I read that you were going to be here in my home state…I thought…”WOW, very cool. A famous sports writer will here in Kansas and in the next town over to where I live”.

Anyway, why doesn’t Mr. Wren just get off his kister and get this done with Jakey. This could end up being another 1993. The year they signed Maddux from the Cubs.

And for all intense purposes, I wouldn’t mind at all if they resigned Hampton but please, PLEASE get rid of Jo, Jo and Mr. Boyer. They both can’t pitch to save their rear-ends.

By BrandonS

November 18, 2008 7:17 PM | Link to this

I just wish this mess would hurry and be over.. And thanks DOB for the blog and welcome back…Surely there is a pitcher out there that we can get without trading so many prospects…What do you think DOB??? Thoughts anyone?

By McFann O –[zzz]

November 18, 2008 7:19 PM | Link to this

DOB Just learned that Schafer hurt a finger in winter ball, got hit by a pitch…

Ugh…Those cann be problems…

Three weeks of rehab for a finger? Dang…must be banged up but good!

By Mike

November 18, 2008 7:20 PM | Link to this

Guys like you really TICK me off! You’re not a fan of the game! You want to associate yourself with the best team, but when they slip, you make your judgemental statements. Truth of the matter is: JoJo probably isn’t ready for the majors. But because of the Braves desperate pitching needs of the past 2 years, he was forced to the majors. Do us all a favor and keep those “garbage ” statements to yourself!

Hey genius, I’m not a fan of the game?? Really? I live and die with the Braves every night, so do me a favor and don’t tell me what I am or am not. I’ve forgotten more about baseball then you’ll ever know. You think JO JO is a good pitcher, fine. You’re wrong, but fine. This team will miss the playoffs again unless we add two upper tier pitchers to the rotation. Look at what we have right now..JJ, JO-JO, Morton, and Campillo. Give me a break, trade Reyes and Morton immediately and get some vets in here with a clue. Morton may someday be a solid pitcher, but we can’t afford to wait around for it to happen. There are so many jag offs on here it’s amazing. Half the dopes here don’t have a clue about the sport.

By Bravenate

November 18, 2008 7:28 PM | Link to this

Braves have 3 years out of the playoffs and all those 3 years management has been saying that they are building the team to win now, why don’t just take a rest let the farm develop one or two years, give them a seasoning and see the product out of the farm?

If JS has keeped Matt Harison and Elvis Andrews, an Salty, could you imagine a rotation of JJJ, Hanson, Harrison, a free agent signing and Campillo/Morton, JoJo for next seasson? Hudson could join them in 2010.

With Elvis moved to second, KJ used to land the left fielder (Ludwick), Salty at first, Yunuel at SS and Chipper at Third and McCann at C, with an outfield of Frenchy, Schaffer and Ludwick, this is a young and talented team to compete for years.

Don’t trade the prospects, the braves have won 14 titles in a row and now we have only 3 years out of competition, I can wait 1 more to see the next wave take the field and win the division again.

Don’t be so desperated, why start with all this win now mode when we have not the pieces to win, why throw the farm to get one player, even if is the best pitcher, one player never is going to win the championship, remember the Texeira trade, it was supouseed to get us to the playoffs for two years and what happened?

Let Yunel grow not as the corner stone of the braves but as one more piece of the team, with McCann, Yunel and Schaffer Atlanta has a very solid column in the center of the field, Kotchman and Francouer has brigth futures, Kelly or Prado can handle the second base, FW needs to start thinking in landing a 3B prospect and a left fielder and let the JJJ, Hanson, Morton, JoJo, Medlen, Marek, Locke, grow and stop being prospects to become players.

By Nelson

November 18, 2008 7:28 PM | Link to this

DOB; Please give me a good reason why the Braves wants to get rid of Yunel Escobar, an almost five tool player!!!!, even for a good pitcher that could be injured (you never know OK) last year was a disaster, not only the Braves but all the Teams had a bunch of injuries! Please explain , does he have problem with somebody in the Team or is just Bobby??

By Wayne

November 18, 2008 7:30 PM | Link to this

Frank I bet you can’t look at a players seasonal stats “to save your rear-end” either.

While I will be the first to admit that both Reyes and Boyer had below average numbers for the season, Boyer had a very good first half, then got over used in the second half. JoJo, while stinking it up for half his starts, was anywhere from average to exceptional for the other half of his starts.

Now, this doesn’t mean they will be all stars next season, but they certainly CAN pitch, just not consistently (yet?).

Blanket statements make you look like you don’t know how to use your computer…

By Tomas

November 18, 2008 7:33 PM | Link to this

I don’t get it. Why are the Braves not ready to gamble on star pitchers, but they were willing to gamble on a 42yr old Glavine.

Really the Braves never get a premium free agent. The only one was Greg Maddux, but that was 15 years ago.

The way the Braves do bussines is obtain players by trade, then try to resign them.

I want Wren to gamble, not on Ben Sheets(he and Hampton may have a bet on), Randy Wolf, Mike Hampton, Jon Garland, Randy Johnson, Curt Schilling, or other old guys(36 or more).

I want the Braves to gamble on Aj Burnett, offer more money than the Yankees. Does damn Yankees have a monopoly going, they can sign anyone they want. I want Wren to be decisive, focuse on one pitcher in the FA market and give him the best contract in the market.

By LKS

November 18, 2008 7:34 PM | Link to this

I am kind of confused. All year long Bobby was RAVING at what an amazing player Escobar was (and is). What changed? Something drastically had to have happened for Bobby to want Esco gone. The stuff I am reading now pretty much implies that Esco will not be playing for the braves next year. I just want to know what happened to make this change. I don’t think a little attitude in the clubhouse would do the trick. Esco ruffled someone’s feathers and I am really interested to find out what it is.

By BrandonS

November 18, 2008 7:36 PM | Link to this

Hey MIKE, Chill out !!!! I eat sleep and breathe Atlanta Braves, they are second in my life only too Jesus Christ . But the people on here may not follow as closely as you and I… JoJo has an awesome arm and yes has an abundance of talent but you have to admit he has alot of work to do….So let these people have thier American right which is free speech..

By Nocturnal Owl

November 18, 2008 7:41 PM | Link to this

How many more years is Bobby Cox the manager and the private assistant G.M.?

By Wayne

November 18, 2008 7:53 PM | Link to this

Tomas Will you promise not to complain if the Braves overpaid for Burnett and he ended up missing about 1/3 or 1/2 of his contracted starts?

Not accusing, just wondering. Lots of folks were all for the Hampton signing a few years back, but now it is rare you can get a decent comment about him. Instead we have bloggers calling him a “faker” and saying he “tanked” and sat on his contract.

I can feel for Frank Wren and his team, as dealing for pitching is such an iffy proposition. You are damned if you do, and damned if you don’t it seems.

I wouldn’t mind having Burnett, but not at any price. I think if Peavy can be had for the right package, he would be a much better (lower) risk than a guy like Burnett.

By Nelson

November 18, 2008 7:55 PM | Link to this

GOOD LKS!!!!, this is exactly the point!, we the fans who pay for the tickets and TV subscriptions deserve a little more respect and an explanation. Bad decisions are sinking this team, Esco (as you named him, I like it) is a great player and still very young, probably he is telling the truth about some decisions Bobby took, specially when he chose Corky over Peña, and the old man is mad about him. By the way we need a younger manager too!! as badly as a good pitcher!!!!!

By Bobbymahlon

November 18, 2008 7:56 PM | Link to this

DOB: Why do you think Schafer is going to win the center field slot, what was wrong with Josh Anderson after all he batted 294,stole bases and covered alot of ground in the outfield. If he did that over a full season playing along side up a normal Franceour and last years Ludwick we would have a pretty good outfield, don’t you agree.

By ouzts

November 18, 2008 7:59 PM | Link to this

dave do yourself a favor and get to athens for centro-matic and south san gabriel this weekend.
i hope the braves can hang on to yunel…

ouzts

By JasonInFL (formerly ME)

November 18, 2008 8:01 PM | Link to this

DOB, when you visit Kauai, where do you stay…North, South, East, West? I am sure you go all over the island as it only takes 2.5 hours or so to drive the whole thing. Have you done the helicopter tour? I bet you have rented a Harley and driven the Waimea canyon!!

By KC Native

November 18, 2008 8:03 PM | Link to this

DOB, I’m SOOO disappointed in you. How could you possibly pick Gates BBQ over Arthur Bryants?? Oh the humanity! I guess you must have grown up in the ritzy Overland Park area to explain that.

By Tomas

November 18, 2008 8:06 PM | Link to this

Wayne I’d be prepared to accept those concequences.

I very well know Aj Burnett wont remain healthy for 5 years, but if he pitches 100 games in 5 years I’d consider that a success. That is an average of 20 starts per year. And he already had Tommy John surgery, so we don’t have to worry him need to take a full year off and have TJ.

By MiamiBeachBravesFan

November 18, 2008 8:14 PM | Link to this

Let’s see. Jake Peavy with elbow tendinitis for Yunel Escobar, Blaine Boyer, Gorkys Hernandez, and either Charlie Morton or Jo-Jo Reyes. And it’s the Padres that have to shed salary - desperately?

Is that with, or without AstroGlide, Mr. Wren?

By JimD

November 18, 2008 8:14 PM | Link to this

From: Bravenate

why don’t just take a rest let the farm develop one or two years, give them a seasoning and see the product out of the farm?

*If JS has keeped Matt Harison and Elvis Andrews, an Salty, *

Don’t be so desperated, why start with all this win now mode when we have not the pieces to win, why throw the farm to get one player,

it was supouseed to get us to the playoffs

Do what?!?!

By Deep Throat

November 18, 2008 8:24 PM | Link to this

I want the Braves to gamble on Aj Burnett, offer more money than the Yankees. Does damn Yankees have a monopoly going, they can sign anyone they want. I want Wren to be decisive, focuse on one pitcher in the FA market and give him the best contract in the market.

One would think and hope if the Braves weren’t going to overpay in prospects to get an ace like Peavy, they’d be damn well prepared to overpay in cash. But that is not the case. They’re not getting Lowe, Burnett or Demster. Heck, they could afford CC Sabathia if they wanted; they have 40+ million to spend and the Yankees’ “huge offer” is 6YRS/140M, or 23.3 million per year…the Braves could beat that if they wanted. Don’t let them lie to you that they “can’t afford it”, the Braves can afford Sabathia, they just don’t want to.

So which painfully unexciting, old and/or mediocre pitcher(s) will the Braves end up signing? Oliver Perez? Randy Wolf? Jon Garland?

By matt

November 18, 2008 8:25 PM | Link to this

Ouzts, I agree. I lived in Athens for 13 years and now live in south GA. I wish I was still there so I could make it to that Centro-matic show. I saw them a few years ago at Tasty World in Athens. Great band!

By tr

November 18, 2008 8:26 PM | Link to this

By ppaddy123 (6:09 PM post)

Because I think that there may be options we haven’t considered yet, including a possible internal option or two, to fill out our rotation, you figure I must be smoking something!?!?!

If that’s the case, what are you even doing here? If everything is so hopeless maybe you should jump on somebody else’s bandwagon.

By Dadgum

November 18, 2008 8:39 PM | Link to this

I have eaten BBQ in KC at both Arthur Bryants and another spot out I believe Stateline Rd. Not sure could have been Gates but don’t think so. In any event it was FAR BETTER than Bryants. Name escapes me, obviously, but I did buy some of their sauce.

As long as I don’t know the score DVR works for me but would rather watch it live of course.

Until college football perfects their post-season package they are going to play 2nd fiddle to the NFL and college basketball. I still honestly can’t believe that the BCS has survived and that ESPN just signed a coverage package through 2013. This at the same time the Div 1AA (still call it that regardless of what it is called now)will be moving to a 20 team playoff to conclude the week prior to the BCS game. Now exactly how much water do you think the college presidents stance holds now. Division 1 college football has the worst season-ending system of all major sports both college and pro. An absolute joke. To make it worse, just watch, Notre Dame will end up in the Gator Bowl with 5 losses. Yeah that bowl package is wonderful isn’t it.

I digress. If Peavy is still in the works then so is Furcal. Still can’t see Peavy here without Furcal and hopefully that will all get done. With Kotchman at 1st, Prado at 2nd, Furcal at SS, Chipper at 3rd, and Mac at C that is a pretty stout defense. We’ll see. The Braves need Peavy in the worst way and I think with the prospect of losing out on the free agent bidding Wren may look the most vulnerable.

Rock on…..Go Jackets!!

By bravesfaninmetsland

November 18, 2008 8:39 PM | Link to this

DOB:

Hahaha just as I was logging on to tell you today when SI’s Jon Heyman was on WFAN telling everyone that at the end of the day Peavy was going to be a Brave, you beat me to it witha blog (guess that’s why you do what you do and I don’t). he outlined all the reasons you just did, and basically said the Padres aren’t getting a better offer then the one the Braves laid out, and eventually they’d see the light.

Gotta warm up and get ready for The Shield. Everyone.. FX at 10 don’t miss!!!

By ouzts

November 18, 2008 8:44 PM | Link to this

i’m driving from atlanta, matt. i saw south san gabriel once at sxsw, LOVE those songs! centro-matic comes around more often but my favorite thing going. GO BRAVES!

By BrandonS

November 18, 2008 8:44 PM | Link to this

I know i will get ribbed and grouched at but what about Pedro Martinez?? I think he would be fairly reasonable money wise and he has a bit left in the tank?

By Tomas

November 18, 2008 8:47 PM | Link to this

The Braves have a significant interest in Derek Lowe, reports Mark Bowman of MLB.com. Beyond Lowe, Atlanta may look next at Jon Garland, Randy Wolf, or Oliver Perez. Bowman categorizes the members of this group as potentially “profitable gambles.”

This means they wont outbid Aj Burnett’s offer. Please then sign Derek Lowe.

Jon Garland is a number 5 starter. What is so special about him, his fastball/sinker barely reaches 88mph, and has a slow curve. Signing him would be like signing Livan Hernandez. They give you a lot of inning but with a big ERA, and a LOT of hits.

Randy Wolf is a number 4 starter.

Oliver Perez is a number 3 starter.

Compare Jon Garland stats this year, and Livan Hernandez in 2007.

Jon Garland 2008: 32GS 14-8 with a 4.90 ERA, 237 hits, 90 SO, in 197 IP.

Livan Hernandez 2007: 33GS 11-11 with a 4.93 ERA, 247 hits, 90 SO, in 204 IP. He was realesed by the Twins this year.

Please whatever you do Wren don’t sign Jon Garland.

By Jody

November 18, 2008 8:55 PM | Link to this

I have heard that the Braves are looking for a BIG BAt to add to the team.What are there options?and who are they looking at?

By SteveInRaleigh

November 18, 2008 9:00 PM | Link to this

What’s the big deal about AJ Burnett? Sure, he strikes out a bunch of guys, but he racks up pitches and walks, forces a manager to work his pen, and is injury prone.

Braves are better off running their young pitchers out there and developing them than spending big dough on AJ. Let the Yankees shoot their wad, tie up their payroll, and end up with another Carl Pavano. That’s what Burnett is. He’s Carl Pavano 2.0, and the Yankees can have him.

The Rays made the world series this year by taking some lumps and giving these young guys innings, not dealing them away for over-valued veterans. That’s actually how the Rays GOT a lot of their players.

By NoJeavy

November 18, 2008 9:00 PM | Link to this

Just what if..we 1)Sign Lowe. 2) Let JJJ prosper. 3) Stretch out Soriano (started before, if healthy) 4)Sign Hamp 5) Try Hanson…Then Maybe for depth…Campillo, JoJo, Bennett, Glav etc

By MiamiBeachBravesFan

November 18, 2008 9:08 PM | Link to this

I just had a thought. If the Peavy going rate is Escobar-Boyer-G. Hernandez-Morton or Reyes, why can’t the Padres throw in Khalil Greene?

Maybe the Clemson kid will find the southern home cooking better than fish tacos.

By Andrew

November 18, 2008 9:13 PM | Link to this

A post a while ago mentioned the possibility of the tigers trading Bonderman or Thames … what is the real possibility of the tigers making a deal?Is that even being tossed a round on the market and what would it take to get that done?

By Jody

November 18, 2008 9:15 PM | Link to this

What Happen to Marcus Giles? Didn’t he got to the Padres?I didn’t see him all year.

By Salty Dawg

November 18, 2008 9:27 PM | Link to this

DOB

I don’t know how you do it sir. Reading this blog sometimes makes me feel like Bill Murray in Groundhog Day. Same questions asked over and over and over…

By McFann O –[zzz]

November 18, 2008 9:34 PM | Link to this

Jody What Happen to Marcus Giles?

I’m not sure I know what happened myself.

By JimD

November 18, 2008 9:45 PM | Link to this

Let’s see if I remember the Giles story over the last 2 yrs.

When let go by Braves, he signed a 1 yr contract with the Padres, but did very poorly. They non-tendered him at the conclusion of the season.

Then in 2008 he signed a minor leagues deal with the Rockies but was cut during spring training. Then the Dodgers offered him a minor league deal which he at first accepted, then changed his mind and declined.

So he did not play last year.

By jed

November 18, 2008 9:46 PM | Link to this

dob

were you impressed with gates bbq? i kept hearing great things about jack stack, gates and arthur bryant’s when i was there. went to jack stack, had the burnt ends and, man, it was unreal! i grew up in georgia surrounded by very good bbq. had east carolina bbq recently, which i just find overrated. but that kansas city style—especially the burnt ends—was something special.

By mbatl

November 18, 2008 9:52 PM | Link to this

Giles was non-tendered by the Braves before the ‘07 season. He signed with San Diego, and had a bad year and got waived. Someone (LA or Arizona, I think) offered him a minor league deal last year, but he declined it at the last minute.

Apparently, he’s looking to make a comeback. He’s still only about 30. If no one gives him a major league deal, I think the Braves should offer him a minor league contract. Don’t know if he’ll ever be good again, but he’d be a pretty nice piece to have playing up I-85 at Gwinnett, just in case.

By Marty

November 18, 2008 9:56 PM | Link to this

So is there actually some real possibility of Furcal signing here, or are you folks just blowing smoke again?

By JoeBrave

November 18, 2008 10:05 PM | Link to this

Is it me?? or does Minnesota’s Delmon Young wreak of Claudell Washington???

By Lil Bit

November 18, 2008 10:06 PM | Link to this

DOB,,

Any news on how Moylan’s rehab is going? My best friend adores him and I would love to suprise her with some news :D.

By wide right

November 18, 2008 10:08 PM | Link to this

please rate this starting pitching staff:

-Jurrjens -Hanson -Campillo -Glavine -Hampton

By Nocturnal Owl

November 18, 2008 10:12 PM | Link to this

Marty Furcal will be expensive but is the best FA option. I think we should look into hard but Furcal might have to wait. We have cash. How about all that Hampton Insurance money, where is that…anyways here is what Bowman had on Furcal: That’s the sense agent Paul Kinzer has gained through the multiple conversations he’s had with the Braves about Furcal over the past week. When he told his client about his initial contact with the Braves, Kinzer said Furcal was “shocked and excited.” The 31-year-old shortstop, who played for the Braves from 2000-2005, has maintained a residence in Atlanta and he’s always considered manager Bobby Cox to be a fatherly figure

Haven’t talked in a few days? Towers sounds desperate and beaten. Break his arm and steal Peavy away from him. Towers looked outside and nothing came by.

Lowe will be the main option if Peavy plan fails. At some point the Yankees need to get stepped on with a higher offer.

No thanks on O. Perez, Wolf, or even Garland. How did Bowman manage to get all three in one sentence.

By Joe M.

November 18, 2008 10:16 PM | Link to this

please rate this starting pitching staff:

Jurrjens -Hanson -Campillo -Glavine -Hampton

Fourth place.

By George S. Patton

November 18, 2008 10:17 PM | Link to this

please rate this starting pitching staff:

-Jurrjens -Hanson -Campillo -Glavine -Hampton -wide right

Rated R for disturbing images.

By Maybe Consider

November 18, 2008 10:17 PM | Link to this

I have no way of knowing. Virtually anything I say is speculation. But consider this as a possibility.

Maybe Peavy did prefer the Cubs. Peavy can give the Pads a list of names that includes the Toledo Mud Hens if he wants, he still has to give final approval for any trade. Just because he allows the Pads to have talks with the 5 teams on his first list, doesn’t mean he agrees to be traded to any of them. Perhaps Towers knows without a doubt that the Braves are the Pads best option, but he’s getting grumblings from Peavy’s agent that Jake isn’t ready to approve a trade to the Braves so he (Towers) needs to try and work something out with the Cubs, the team Peavy wants to join. In that case, Towers moves away from what is likely his best offer to try and appease Peavy. After all, it sounds like the Pads are going to have to dump Peavy no matter what they say publicly. So maybe Towers isn’t the idiot we all think he is. Maybe he’s just trying to move Peavy for a decent return but realizes Peavy ain’t going anywhere unless Jake says so.

The above scenario may not be the case, but does anyone else have a better reason why a rational GM would continue to try to work a deal with a team that has an obviously inferior trade package to the one the Braves had on the table? A trade that would require involving at least one maybe two other teams besides the Cubs putting together a package that still might not come close to what the Braves had to offer?

GM’s who have an attractive commodity like Peavy want the best return they can get for their product. Who can blame them? Do some get greedy? Sure they do but the disparity between the Braves offer and all other potential deals that have been leaked is huge. Too big a gap to be simply explained away as a GM trying to get a better deal.

Now that the Cubs signed Dempster, maybe it comes back to the Braves. But in the end, Peavy still has to agree to the trade. And I’m not fully convinced that if the Pads want the Braves, that Peavy will automatically approve the deal.

By wide left

November 18, 2008 10:18 PM | Link to this

please rate this starting pitching staff:

-Peavy-Jurrjens-Hampton-Campillo-Taz/Hanson

By fastasballs

November 18, 2008 10:20 PM | Link to this

I think the Braves still end up getting Peavy. The Cubs resigning Dempster should about seal the deal. He either stays in San Diego or he is going to be a Brave.

Between Peavy’s own no trade clause & other teams lacking the talent to trade for him I just don’t see this not getting done. Actually if anything Wren is in a much better spot with the Cubs out of the running.

I do think if Peavy is obtained that Furcal is signed, well that is if Escobar is traded, but by all accounts he was the center piece of any deal to begin with.

The Braves have been lacking for a lead off hitter since Furcal left. His back is of some concern, but I would rather roll the dice with an injury for a proven guy with the glove & bat than go with someone unproven.

This team is building for 2010 & on as far as I’m concerned. I think there are too many holes to be filled this winter for them to compete in 2009.

The talent on the farm is starting to show with Hanson, Flowers, Schaefer, Gorkys, Medlin, Freeman & Heyward, just to name a few. 2010 & forward looks really good to me. With the high draft pick this coming June the Braves should be able to acquire another top talent to throw in that mix of names.

I could live with a rotation in 2010 of Peavy, JJ, Hanson, Hudson & Medlin. If Hudson had not needed TJ surgery that rotation may have become a reality this season

By Tim

November 18, 2008 10:23 PM | Link to this

Marcus Giles didn’t play last year. He had a change to sign with the Dodgers and prove himself at Triple A but decided against it. Apparently he’s hoping to catch on with someone during spring training. That is what I have read.

By semiballcoach

November 18, 2008 10:24 PM | Link to this

wide right…don’t like campillo and gl;avine back to back

By Lou Vales

November 18, 2008 10:25 PM | Link to this

Always Jaking Burnett Is A Dog!!!!!! PLEASE ask ANY of the beat writers who have covered him on a daily basis. He has NEVER won a meaningful game in his life. The Nipple Ringed Warrior is even overdue for a trip to Birmingham, Alabama—His Home Away From Home. I have a Pembroke Welsh Corgi and she is less of a dog and has won as many BIG games as Adam James Burnett. Adam has the potential to make Mike Hampton look like “hoss” Radbourne. AJ Burnett!! Lunacy!!

By mbatl

November 18, 2008 10:31 PM | Link to this

I’m not sure we should dismiss Ollie Perez so quickly. I know all the downside, but he’s young and lefthanded, and unless he just falls off a cliff, could be traded down the road (even bad lefties who can strike people out are in demand).

He absolutely dominated the Phillies last year, for whatever that’s worth… 1 ER in 26 innings; also pitched well against the Marlins … 2.23 era in 36+ innings.

He’s also dominant against LH hitting, and the Mets are heavily left-handed.

Not saying he should be the top target, but might be worth considering.

Peavy, Jurrjens, Perez, Hampton and Hanson… might just have a chance with that rotation.

By Wayne

November 18, 2008 10:31 PM | Link to this

Tomas If I am the Braves, no way do I sign Burnett if I truly believed he would only be able to make 100 starts in 5 years, especially not 5 years at 90 million.

I would prefer to pay Garland 1/2 that amount for 4 years for 135-140 starts.

Not that I am advocating getting a guy like Garland, but I would prefer his consistency over Burnett’s injuries, again, if you were confident Burnett would only give you an average of 20 starts per year.

Personally, I prefer Peavy and Randy Johnson, with Mike Hampton thrown in for good measure. I think Tom Glavine is finished, but who knows. I think Glavine is more of an unknown than Hampton.

later, my friend….

By siskel

November 18, 2008 10:33 PM | Link to this

Braves are missing out on AJ, missed out on Dempster, and bailed out on Peavy. Look out for our new rotation of JJ, Garland, Wolf, Campillo, and Carlyle. Are Horacio Ramirez and Chris Reitsma available?

By Joe M.

November 18, 2008 10:35 PM | Link to this

Oh my, the Cubs are targeting Royals’ right fielder Mark Teahen. Hopefully they get him and the Royals offer the Braves something, anything, for Francoeur.

By mbatl

November 18, 2008 10:35 PM | Link to this

*Marcus Giles didn’t play last year. * You’re right, of course, Tim. I lost a year somewhere along the line… still think he’d be a good guy to have at Gwinnett if he doesn’t have better prospects.

By Saltywoody

November 18, 2008 10:45 PM | Link to this

*please rate this starting pitching staff:

-Jurrjens -Hanson -Campillo -Glavine -Hampton*

Rated PG…Please God, don’t let that be it.

By Steve from OH

November 18, 2008 10:50 PM | Link to this

I wouldn’t mind signing O. Perez if we can land Peavy or sign a Burnett/Lowe type first. Of course, I’d rather take Peavy AND Burnett/Lowe, but if we acquire a legit ace then we can sign a lesser guy like Perez to fill a role that he’s better suited for: #3 starter.

I’m not cool with signing O.Perez as our top offseason acquisition, because that ain’t cutting it.

Wayne, consistency is overrated if the player in question is bad. I’d much rather take a gamble on Burnett because he at least gives you the oppotunity of win every time he takes the hill. Not so with Garland, IMO. If anything, Garland is consistently bad, or at least below-average. There really isn’t any way to justify giving Garland any kind of long-term deal whatsoever.

Wondering how we’ll fill the LF void. Trading KJ for Ludwick is a bad idea and the only other trade option I can think of is Spilborghs. BFIR, what do you think it’ll take to get him?

By Lovely Bloggist

November 18, 2008 10:51 PM | Link to this

All Wren’s promises are fat lies. While he has been glued to a Peavy deal he had NO intention of sealing, he’s let all the REAL talent slip away.

Look forward to a rotation of Jo Jo Reyes, (Jurrjens will still be hurt), Greg Glavine, Charlie Merton, Moylan, and fat-boy Sabathia.

Should have let Peavy go and traded for Burnett before the Yankees got involved with all this. And Randy Wolf is NOT the answer in left field. His power numbers are AWFUL. Better off sticking with Wagner.

Even if Ted Cuban DOES buy us back, there’s no way to guarantee Tuesday. This is garbage. I love Judy McRae.

By Bo

November 18, 2008 11:02 PM | Link to this

Some of you people just don’t read what DOB writes. He tells us what the Braves and Wren is doing and some of you still say the same things over and over.

Don’t stop Believin’ DOB is in the best position to know the facts. Keep up the good work DOB and welcome back. Did you bring the cold with you?

By Flustered Fan

November 18, 2008 11:03 PM | Link to this

Oh “Chief”, I’ll probably get torn up for this, but, I still think giving up the farm for Peavey is a bad move. Wren had it right the first time when he pulled out. I thought that Peavey was concerned about the Braves being contenders or not. Something in my gut tells me that this is a bad move. His elbow isn’t the best. Does Len Barker ring a bell? I’m sure the “Chief” will say I’m being pessimistic and post a song about it all.

By Lou Vales

November 18, 2008 11:20 PM | Link to this

Dear Dave, Want to really show me something. Answer these: (1)The value of Citibank on Opening Day (2) Will any major insurers have to be bailed out? (3) Does The Big 3 get rescued (4) Are the terms of Tarp altered again (5) What does the Dow, Nasdaq and S&P sit at Opening Day/ (6) Has Cuban been indicted??—Mark, if a federal investigator asks you a question he already knows the answer. Just don’t lie. (7) What does unemployment number reach?? (8) The price for barrel of oil!! (9)Does Obama’s Cabinet reflect true bi-partisanship (10) Okay back to reality, where does Arthur Rhodes end up?

By JimD

November 18, 2008 11:23 PM | Link to this

Why are we accusing Wren of “giving up the farm” when …

(a) we aren’t sure of what the original offer was - we only have “reports”, and honestly, the reports of the first trade of they are even close to accurate come along way from “giving up the farm,”

(b) we don’t know if there even WILL BE another offer, Towers may not come back around and resume talks with ATL, and if he does, Wren may not be willing to listen - those scenarios, however, seem far fetched, and

(c) if there is another offer, we will not be certain who is involved until the deal is consummated and made public. So many people are getting all riled up over stuff we aren’t privy too, just what we heard from some “source.”

Let’s wait and see how this plays out, THEN we can opine from a more informed perspective.

By fastasballs

November 18, 2008 11:28 PM | Link to this

The way I see it is the Braves are now in the drivers seat regarding Peavy. Towers & the Padres must move him, but there is only a handful of teams that Peavy will accept a trade to. Only the Braves are good suiters unless Peavy added more teams to the mix that he would allow a trade.

Towers tried to push for more after Wren made a fair offer, but Wren balked & stepped away, as he should have. Dempster signing with the Cubs basically eliminated the only other logical destination for Peavy. The only way the Cubs could pull a trade for him now is to get a thrid team involved & at this point it’s not likely.

Wren may even get Peavy for less than the offer that Towers declined. Towers is backed into a corner & has to deal him. The Pads MUST slash payroll. It isn’t a question of if they will, but when they will.

At this point Wren could offer Escobar, Morton & another prospect not named Gorkys & probably be far & away the best offer the Padres are able to get. Think about it, as bad as the Braves need Peavy the Padres need to unload him even more. It’s going to happen folks, be patient.

By N8

November 18, 2008 11:30 PM | Link to this

You guys need to get something through your thick skulls.

There is ZERO chance of Burnett or Lowe (not even Sonny Burnett or Rob Lowe), signing with the Braves.

Why would they? DOB can talk about cost of living all day long. The Yankees, Dodgers, Cubs, Angels and Red Sox will offer more money, and they are ALL closer to winning than the Braves.

With no Jake Peavy on board, NO, ZERO, ZILCH, NADA big name free agent is coming to Atlanta, other than to drive up the price at their true destination of choice.

Let’s look at the pros and cons, shall we?

Hmmm. Go to NY (where the offer is likely to be much bigger), with die hard fans that show up ALL THE TIME and show up for game one of the LDS series, the roster is a virtual All-Star roster, there is a new stadium opening, and ownership has proven that while there moves aren’t always the ones that work out, they will do WHATEVER it takes (including throwing tons of money their way), to try and field a winner.

What does atlanta have to offer? One more year of Bobby Cox. 120 (or so) games of playing with Chipper Jones, and the games best catcher to throw to (provided Bobby doesn’t use the back up catcher with any potential free agents).

Where would you go? I’d go play with the Yankees for half the money the Braves are/were offering…. and I hate the Yankees.

If this team is improving, it’s going to be through trades and (or) the youngsters stepping up. (see Tampa Bay Rays of 2008).

By brent a.

November 18, 2008 11:32 PM | Link to this

JimD,

Good post. I always laugh when people get overly critical of individuals in response to rumors.

By Steve from OH

November 18, 2008 11:32 PM | Link to this

Lou Vales, DOB is not an economist. He is a baseball writer. I’m sure he’d appreciate it if you asked him questions relevant to this forum. If you want to talk economics, find a different daggone blog. If you wanna talk baseball or music or BBQ or whatever, that’s cool. But take the econ crap off of this forum, please. I come here to get away from all that bullcrap, so keep it off this forum, por favor.

By Nocturnal Owl

November 18, 2008 11:39 PM | Link to this

At this point Wren could offer Escobar, Morton & another prospect not named Gorkys fastaballs

Gorkys is a fantastic prospect and I have to agree to keep him but in the end of day I would separate. Towers did say he has ID the main part of package. That in my guess would be Yunel and Gorkys. It’s all the small stuff. We cannot call LOCKE a throw in. Ranked around 9TH in overall prospect. Towers needs to give in now if he wants Yunel.

By Flustered Fan

November 18, 2008 11:42 PM | Link to this

I just wished we wouldn’t have to give up Escobar…why can’t they offer Johnson…Hell, Prado can play 2nd. If Escobar goes, then Wren will have to go outside of the organization, and more than likey, get some older, fading player. I thought we were trying to go in a younger direction here. C’mon guys, the dude’s elbow is a ticking time bomb. What are we going to do if his elbow goes out, and we’re stuck?

By David O'Brien

November 18, 2008 11:44 PM | Link to this

Frank, you know Adam LaRoche lives right down the road from you practically (well, if you live 20 miles from Lawrence to the south and/or west. He lives in Fort Scott, on a farm….

By the way, my preseason pick for college hoops player of the year, Blake Griffin, has 25 points and 21 rebounds with less than a minute left in No. 14 OU’s game against No. 21 Davidson, but Stephen Curry, who will also contend for player of the year, has 44 freakin’ points for Davidson and they’re only down 81-78…. And Boog is calling the game on ESPN2.

By Nocturnal Owl

November 18, 2008 11:45 PM | Link to this

Steve from OH, How would you rate O. Perez over Hampton. I’d rate both at fourth, and figure we’d only get one. You said you be okay with a Perez addition… We cann even talk about BBQ, LOL

By David O'Brien

November 18, 2008 11:52 PM | Link to this

N8: Thanks for setting us straight, brother. We’re all set now….

Steve from OH: Not only am I not an economist, but I don’t really understand what Vales thinks I or any of us is going to say here. He acts as though we have some impact on the sport of baseball and how much will or won’t be spent, or how attendance will be affected.

Lou Vales, we all know it’s an absolute disaster, this economy. Most would agree it’s this nation’s worst economic situation since the Great Depression, though quite a gulf between the two situations on many fronts, such as unemployment rates.

But as horrible as it is, they’re not canceling the season this year, and we’re still going to cover it, and that’s what we’re trying to do here. And all I’ve said is that the very upper-most tier of free agents isn’t being affected by the real-word situations that are affecting virtually everyone else in society. That’s it. All I’ve said. Oh, and we also linked to some stories, which were rather inconclusive, regarding whether attendance is affected one way or another by recessions, etc.

I don’t know if it will be, but I’m sure it will be in some markets, perhaps including Atlanta. Either way, they’re going to play the games and we’re going to cover the Braves, so really, there’s not much more I can help you with regarding the economy and how baseball will be affected. All we can do is wait and see, right? Surely people won’t be as inclined to spend so freely at the concession and souvenir stands, and if the Braves stink you can bet more will stay away in droves. Other than that, don’t know what to tell you, since we really don’t have anything to compare this to.

By Flustered Fan

November 18, 2008 11:54 PM | Link to this

Hey, Braves fan in PA, I think the reason Bobby Cox was disenchanted with Yunel was because he wanted to win and he told Cox to stop making stupid managerial decisions. He also told Cox to get rid of Terry Pendleton because he was messing up his and everyone else’s swing.

By Flustered Fan

November 18, 2008 11:56 PM | Link to this

If the Braves want to continue going with the geriatric movement, they are going to have more dinosaurs on their team than there are in Jurassic Park!

By Flustered Fan

November 19, 2008 12:00 AM | Link to this

Peavey is not the answer to all of the Braves’ problems.

By Andrew

November 19, 2008 12:02 AM | Link to this

any other trade possibilities for starting pitchers? AL teams?

By Flustered Fan

November 19, 2008 12:04 AM | Link to this

Giving up a valuable shortstop for a pitcher with a questionable elbow is not good business.

By Lou Vales

November 19, 2008 12:06 AM | Link to this

Dear Steve From Ohio, Economics IS baseball. It dictates salary structure, stadium construction, ticket prices, advertising revenue, number of games broadcast, market accesibility, farm system viability, scouting AND ATTENDANCE and INTEREST in the game. IF you don’t think economics—-which is really LIFE as it dictates the physical quality of your existence—-molds the landscape of ALL sports THEN you are in for a HUGE awakening. Check out the comments coming from leaders of 3 other major sports in America. They have seen the sagging attendance, the decreased numbers in merchandise and they are SCARED. Just because Selig hasn’t commented yet may be attributed to recognizable fact that he is a MORON. Agreed??? The reckoning and adjustment of the Fun and Games Time is coming and I’m telling you the boorish gambits of Mr Boras will soon be ridiculed in the national media on a scale never thought imagineable. If you cover sports in 2009, you better know something about economics. Check out Peter Gammons in ESPN. Try the New York Times, Boston Globe, Washington Post, Wall St. Journal, Chicago Tribune, Dallas Times-Herald—See if those newspapers understand the connection between a possible global economic meltdown and the populace’s interest in a right handed pitcher from rural Alabama. He can bring it, but if you got too many worrying about viability of their annuities, pensions, insurance policies AND jobs are they really going to care?? On this Blog?? Probably. Is it wrong for someone to try to inject a LITTLE reality? Probably not.

By Couch Tater

November 19, 2008 12:07 AM | Link to this

For the Will Muschamp fans, he’s been named as the heir to the cattle farm in Austin, Texas.

By Wayne

November 19, 2008 12:15 AM | Link to this

Tater I couldn’t be happier!

:-)

If we don’t get this Jake Peavy thing done soon, I propose we refer to him as “Jack” Peavy!

Speaking of Jack, on Sunday night, “Jack” is back!!

By David O'Brien

November 19, 2008 12:15 AM | Link to this

Jed: You mentioned my three favorite BBQ places in K.C. — Gates, Arthur Bryant’s (the original one downtown) and Jack Stack. Also great are Hayward’s, and Smokehouse, and one that my buddy took me to last year, Oklahoma Joe’s. K.C. has so many outstanding BBQ joints, but I’ll take Gates and Bryant’s over the rest, and if pushed for one I’d go Gates, probably.

Grew up eating the Eastern N.C. pork with the vinegar-based sauce at Parker’s and other places (including my dad’s backyard pig pickin’s for most of Warren Street in Greenville), and you just can’t beat that eating, in my opinion. But the K.C.-style, particularly at places like Gates and Bryant’s, is just about as good, though totally different. However, there’s no disputing where the better side dishes are — in N.C., especially hushpuppies.

I tell you, there’s a few places in Atlanta that I’ve eaten that are right up there, too, though again, it’s a different style of ‘que. Pig is king here, as in N.C.

Vales, can we discuss BBQ without considering the economic ramifications, or no?

(By the way, there wasn’t much good BBQ when I lived down your way, Vales, in South Florida, but Tom Jenkins’ BBQ in Fort Lauderdale was/is tremendous. And the Georgia Pig down in Fort Liquordale was also really strong.)

By wondering

November 19, 2008 12:15 AM | Link to this

Is anyone questioning Jake Peavy’s elbow or health aside from some know-nothing bloggers?

By Flustered Fan

November 19, 2008 12:18 AM | Link to this

Here is the formula for the Braves to be good again: 1. Get new owners who care. 2. Get rid of Cox, Pendleton, and McDowell. 3. Hire Ned Yost as manager and bring back Leo as pitching coach. 4. Show Frank Wren the door. He tanked in Baltimore and was ran out of town.

By Flustered Fan

November 19, 2008 12:20 AM | Link to this

I wish Arthur Blank would initiate a hostile take over of the Braves.

By David O'Brien

November 19, 2008 12:21 AM | Link to this

Flustered Fan: You weren’t kidding about being flustered….

By Mark

November 19, 2008 12:21 AM | Link to this

Dave, you may have already commented on this, but what did you think of the comments by Kevin Towers in the Chicago Tribune: “It’s going to take a while,” Padres GM Kevin Towers told the San Diego Union-Tribune. “They have a couple of players to pick from that we are interested in, but anything with them is going to potentially involve a third or a fourth team. We’re focusing only on [the Cubs].”

Do these comments mean anything at all or is just trying to get the Braves to sweeten their offer?

By David O'Brien

November 19, 2008 12:21 AM | Link to this

And you’re flustered in mostly one-sentence bursts….

By Flustered Fan

November 19, 2008 12:22 AM | Link to this

I wonder who the Braves new PA announcer will be?

By Flustered Fan

November 19, 2008 12:25 AM | Link to this

Wondering, if you knew anything, you would have heard that Peavey was on the shelf this past May with elbow troubles. But hey, what do I know? I’m just a know nothing blogger.

By David O'Brien

November 19, 2008 12:27 AM | Link to this

But also flustered enough to occasionaly offer solutions, usually in easy-to-follow lists, as in 1. Fire him, 2. And him, 3. And, finally, him.

(but it’s all good. gotta love the passion.)

By Wayne

November 19, 2008 12:27 AM | Link to this

Steve Gotta tell you, though I am not a Jon Garland fan, I don’t think he is as bad as you suggest. Over the past 6 years, he has averages 205+ innings, with a 4.5 ERA. What would that ERA translate to in the NL?

A guy like that would have been a godsend for the Braves last year. I know the argument, “I would rather have Charlie Morton or someone like that in his place for about 10 million less per year.”

Charlie Morton might be better than Garland eventually, but he was not better in 2008, and who knows about 2009.

If the Braves are going to get 2 starters, Garland might be a useful piece to the rotation.

Personally, I would prefer Randy Johnson or Mike Hampton, but Garland is like the energizer innnings eating bunny.

I think a guy like that gives you a chance to win in at least half his starts. For a #4 or #5 pitcher, that’s saying a lot.

My personal preference for 2009 rotation: Peavy, Jurrjens, RJohnson, Hampton and Hanson.

By Lou Vales

November 19, 2008 12:28 AM | Link to this

Forgot. These teams DEPEND on corporate purchase of high end tickets—See all those fancy suites??—Now I’m going out on a limb and going to predict that if a company has slashed 10 percent of its workforce and might have even taken taxpayer money in a bailout that the people who are paying for that bailout JUST MIGHT not like the idea of high rollers sittin in comfort and drinking Caymus and dining on foie gras while their remaining work force worry about their futures. Just a guess. Therefore when that gets scaled back and the regular people just can’t afford a ticket and a 7 dollar beer—Do you think adjustments MIGHT have to be made. Now I never expect cc to be impacted to the point he doesn’t look like a sumo wrestling apprentice, BUT there are 24 other guys on a roster and maybe some former minor leaguers would look good making that 400,000 minimum at the 21- 25 slots on a roster. Think?? Also revenue begins to get scaled back on that silly MSG deal as execs begin to realize “Why advertise when flat sales won’t benefit?”

By GSU-Lee

November 19, 2008 12:32 AM | Link to this

DOB, a few weeks ago my dad and I got lost on our way home from Asheville, NC and stopped at a place called Butch’s BBQ. I had some of that vinegar-based BBQ sauce over some chopped pork with 5 hush puppies (they freakin ruled). It doesn’t get much better than that, and the slaw was good too.

By David O'Brien

November 19, 2008 12:34 AM | Link to this

Mark, if you wait another day and read another story in another paper, Towers will likely say something else quite different. Someone should run together a list of about 20 quotes he’s had since this whole thing began, including the likes of “That train has left the station.” It’d be entertaining.

By GSU-Lee

November 19, 2008 12:37 AM | Link to this

Flustered Fan, I agree on Blank, but not on any of the other counts. I think he is a good owner and I know he is a good man who takes pride in his product.

By Lou Vales

November 19, 2008 12:38 AM | Link to this

Dave, Tom’s was GREAT!!!! Boca Raton was too eliteist. Left Florida after 41 years and moved to Greenville in 02—Can’t beat the cost of living after Boca. Greenville is where I heard all the Chipper stories—SOME I assume are true. I’m just glad Palm Beach County wasn’t an integral part of another election fiasco, although they did have troubles AGAIN!! We actually lived 2 miles from precinct that brought you the Hanging Chads, 1 mile from where anthrax was introduced on Clint Moore Road and my wife worked out at the Gold’s Gym in Delray Beach where Atta and his buddies hung out. A very interesting place. Main reason we moved though was the New Yorkers—How many times can you hear “That’s not the way we did it in New York”?? No Kidding!!! You left New York.

By Couch Tater

November 19, 2008 12:39 AM | Link to this

Wayne- Are you still feeling good about Dabo? I thought he may win the “mob” over, but in reading some of the Clemson message boards, I’m not so sure.

By Flustered Fan

November 19, 2008 12:41 AM | Link to this

Big Dave.. Believe it or not, I do love the Braves. I just hate seeing the team that I have loved my entire life go down the proverbial crapper. Yeah, I’m a little hard on them, but, I just want to see them get good again…and of course I am going to have some sarcastic interjections. You ever heard the saying, “if it’s too good to be true, then it usually is”. That’s how this Peavey thing sounds to me. I could be wrong. It wouldnt be the first time.I wish I could be more optimistic but it seems like the cards are stacked against them. I hope they prove me wrong, and if they do, I will formally announce it on whatever blog is available.

By David O'Brien

November 19, 2008 12:41 AM | Link to this

Vales, thanks for reminding me of Tom’s. Forgot all about that place in Boca, right on Federal Highway, right? You’re right — very good place….

GSU-Lee, do you remember where it was, what town?

By the way, Dusty’s here in Atlanta serves the N.C.-style BBQ. The proprietors are from Goldsboro, N.C. It’s good, sometimes a little better than others. Worth going, though, for sure, if you have a craving for the N.C. ‘que.

They’ve got the empty bottles of a bunch of sauces lined up on a shelf behind the counter, including Scott’s and Carolina Treat, the two kinds my dad kept in the house at all times.

By Nocturnal Owl

November 19, 2008 12:45 AM | Link to this

Lou Vales you are on some serious drugs that have intensified the last hour.

My BBQ story comes from an hour ago. I dipped my wendys nuggets in some fine BBQ. ;

By Flustered Fan

November 19, 2008 12:45 AM | Link to this

Hmm..if I get all my frustrations out, I’ll have to change my name. I guess I’ll just have to find something else to b*** about.

By BravesAC

November 19, 2008 12:46 AM | Link to this

Towers has a few Cubs he’s interested in? Maybe he likes Pie (Felix) while the Braves say “let ‘em eat cake”. I agree DOB Towers is all over the map like a girl who can’t get over a bf who jilted her.

By uga-brave

November 19, 2008 12:48 AM | Link to this

i too think we will end up with peavy after the smoke clears. the pads really only have a few viable options.

either way i sure hope there are a couple of other moves.

would love to see what the reds wanted for aaron harang.

way too early to predict how the hot stove will pan out.

now if we get into early january and we start hearing the words not prudent, fisacally responsible, we really like our core, and we thought it was in the best interest of the franchise, then we might have a bone to pick with mr. wren.

as for now lets just see where the cards fall.

By David O'Brien

November 19, 2008 12:50 AM | Link to this

Flustered, I hear ya (12:41). No problem. Just having some fun. I know you love the team, and I can’t blame you for being frustrated. Understandable after the past three seasons.

By Flustered Fan

November 19, 2008 12:50 AM | Link to this

GSU-Lee Amen, brotha

By Lou Vales

November 19, 2008 12:51 AM | Link to this

Couch Tater, No Dabo!!!! Trust Me!!! Never let the inmates(players under interim’s tutelage) run the asylum. Go out and get a REAL HEAD COACH. I’ve become a real big Clemson fan since they compete with the Old Coach In Name Only and The Coach In Waiting. it appears the Coach In waiting may have figured out the Coach In Name Only might hang around another 5 years in a willful attempt to destroy a program. As a Florida grad I’m extremely happy with an administration that allows a near octagenarian to oversee the decline of a once Top 3 Program. Bobby, You Stay Right There. You fight that nasty Joe Pa right to the end.

By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)

November 19, 2008 12:51 AM | Link to this

Flustered fan writes: Peavy is on the answer to all of the Braves problems.

Um, that would be an understatement.

Basically, four of the five slots in the Braves rotation are wide open. At least two spots in the outfield are questionable. Atlanta has no backup for Brian McCann. The free agency of Will Ohman opens up at least one hole in the bullpen.

Overall, you could pretty much drive a damn mack truck through the Braves right now. That’s how many holes our roster has.

With or wthout Jake Peavy, Frank Wren knows he doesn’t have the type of team that can compete. Which is why the Braves are willing to trade Yunel Escobar. They are building for 2010 and beyond.

The Braves are rebuilding, don’t let anybody tell you otherwise.

By BravesAC

November 19, 2008 12:52 AM | Link to this

Braves rotation in 2 years… Jurrgens,Hanson,Rohrbaugh,Morton, and one soft tosser just for change of pace (JoJo, Redmond) with Medlen in reserve for when the bloggers say “dump the soft tosser”. That really could happen and it would be worth watching it develop with a solid core of hitters (Heyward,Freeman,etc.) on the doorstep as well. And Flustered Fan if you’re thinking of handing Pendleton a pink slip, if you can manage it with before those hitters come up, I’m with ya a 100%!

By BravesAC

November 19, 2008 12:56 AM | Link to this

DOB is that an early or late Man in Black song? Good lyrics. I have one of his “live at some prison (San Quentin?)” cds with his wife and it’s terrific.

By J.L.

November 19, 2008 12:57 AM | Link to this

I don’t believe the Braves will obtain JAKE the Snake.IMO.we should try to trade for two hitting outfielders.Work with the pitchers we have , now if a trade for Lirano or one of the rays young pitchers comes avaliable,i’d take a long look.

By Terry "mini fridge" McGuirk

November 19, 2008 12:58 AM | Link to this

Full speed ahead, ugabrave- full speed ahead.

By Couch Tater

November 19, 2008 1:02 AM | Link to this

Florida grad explains everything.

By Flustered Fan

November 19, 2008 1:06 AM | Link to this

Braves AC, I’m your Huckleberry.

By MiamiBrave

November 19, 2008 1:08 AM | Link to this

DOB

your interaction with Flustered Fan, reminded me of a question I always ask people, in your opinion what is harder to do…win the World Series or the division?

just wanted your take, as you obviously know we can gloat the division titles but only 1 title in that period…wanted to see your opinion on it…

great to have you back by the way

By Flustered Fan

November 19, 2008 1:08 AM | Link to this

Does anyone know where the Braves fanfest will be in 09? We’ve been two times. We went two years ago at Turner Field and it was awesome, then last year it was at the World Congress Center and it kind of sucked.

By Joe

November 19, 2008 1:14 AM | Link to this

The Braves and Padres should just do this The Braves should send Yunel Escobar, Charlie Morton And Jo-Jo Reyes to San Diego for Jake Peavy And Khalil Greene.

By Nocturnal Owl

November 19, 2008 1:14 AM | Link to this

Flustered Fan, Going to a Braves fanfest will only add to total frustrations.

By Flustered Fan

November 19, 2008 1:21 AM | Link to this

Good point, Owl.

By Erik

November 19, 2008 1:28 AM | Link to this

DOB

I hear you on the vinegar based sauce…nothing better. Don’t have any BBQ places in Atlanta that I love(Pig N’Chick is as close as any). However at school(Furman University) in Greenville SC we have some great places. My favorite is a place called Smoke and Stokes. They specialize in a Cheerwine based BBQ sauce(so good). Their Vinegar sauce is also the best sauce I have ever had. If you make it up here I strongly recommend it.

By William R. Smith

November 19, 2008 1:48 AM | Link to this

Your headline on the web page says, “Not hardly”.. Where did you lear such poor English? the phrase is simply, “Hardly”/ So try to do better OK?

By Shepard Smith

November 19, 2008 1:48 AM | Link to this

Lou Vales thinks he’s Neil Cavuto but he’s really just a tool reading the Wall Street Journal with his support socks jacked up too his knees and his underwear up his crack

By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)

November 19, 2008 1:57 AM | Link to this

Listen to the words of Kevin Towers concerning the Braves/Peavy trade negotiations:

“We were able to ID and agree upon a large part of the package.”

I’ll translate. The Padres want five players, Atlanta is willing to go four deep. Just give’em Tyler Flowers, McCann and Kotchman aren’t going anywhere anytime soon. And no, I would not mind having Khalil Greene at SS.

If I’m right and this thing is being held up over one minor league player, Frank Wren needs to be horse whipped. But still, if the Braves trade Escobar without a capable SS to replace him, both Cox and Wren should be tarred and feathered right outside Turner Field.

And while I TOTALLY agree that the trade Market for Yunel Escobar is wide open and the options for Peavy are limited, the Braves need Jake Peavy far more than the Padres need Yunel Escobar.

Also, those Cubbies are still after Jake Peavy. Don’t let the resigning of Ryan Dempster fool you, the Cubs are after the 2009 World Series title. I think it has something to do with a ONE HUNDRED year WS drought and counting.

And last but not least. Wren and Towers, swallow the ego. We all know neither the Braves nor the Padres are going to the playoffs in 2009. GET IT DONE ALREADY.

By David O'Brien

November 19, 2008 2:03 AM | Link to this

Damn, just watched The Shield and it was absoulutely riveting, seriously one of the best hours of TV I can ever remember. 90-minute series finale next week….

MiamiBrave: That’s a tough question. Tougher to win the division, in terms of having to be a strong team over the course of 162 games, obviously. But to win the World Series, you both have to be a strong-enough team over 162 games to win the division or wild card, then strong enough short-series team to win three rounds of playoffs against teams that usually have some of the best pitchers in the majors. So I’d have to say it’s tougher to win a World Series…..

BravesAC: J.R. (Cash) did two prison albums, Folson and San Quentin. Both are, of course, superb….

I love this cut from the Man in Black

By Lou Dobbs

November 19, 2008 2:10 AM | Link to this

Shepard Smith is a homosexual, illegal alien lover.

By BA

November 19, 2008 2:12 AM | Link to this

Coach, my guess is that the fifth player for Wren is “take your pick, Towers- Locke, Rohrbough, etc”. But Towers still thinks he can bluff Wren into a desperation move (i.e., including HANSON or Schafer).

If this were Schuerholz, I’d be sure he was doing this (the “announcement” last weekend) to somehow KEEP Escobar, Hanson, and Schafer.

But if Escobar is the hold-up, I’d do it- and take my chances with Furcal and the Small Bridge. Anything for some pitching.

By Chipper'sJonze

November 19, 2008 2:28 AM | Link to this

My favorite Braves teams of the early 90’s were dominated by young, unproven talent. Maybe a pickup of a veteran talent like Maddux or McGriff now and then, but mostly home-grown youth with tenacity and energy. I hate the notion that this team is willing to part with so much youth to get a blockbuster deal done. I don’t think this team has recovered from the Tex pick-up to consider losing two major-league ready players, and a few more top-tier prospects. Not sure any one player is worth the risk.

Watching this year’s Tampa Bay team felt refreshing, with so many great prospects with just a few veterans playing with so much heart was alot of fun. I don’t think the Braves are too far from a situation like that, as long as they do not loot the farm.

By BravesAC

November 19, 2008 2:43 AM | Link to this

DOB I was familair with the track and have loved it, but never saw the video of it before. I couldn’t help but think of the faces in the video, and how today, comparitively speaking, they would be the clean cut All American guys compared to what you’d likely find in stuck in a prison today. But just like Cash’s time, the anger and the wasting away remain the same. My favorite cut on the cd is the duet he sings with his wife…it’s no Sonny and Cher pop pile!

By Tomahawkin

November 19, 2008 3:08 AM | Link to this

Its Early, but It seems no one has a word about the Burrell/Dunn/Abreu Rumors… I’m really suprised that ESPNY hasn’t reported on Abreu…

I’m just curious about R. Ibanez, I think he’s an under the radar Free agent this year, since he played on a horrible team (And BTW who is his agent, anyone know…?)

I don’t think much will happen until after Thanksgiving…? After then that gap between Thanksgiving and the Winter meetings will determine which team signs who ( The Domino effect begins…)

And BTW has anyone heard that the Phillies might trade their catching prospect J. Jaramillo, Carrasco, and Kyle Drabek to land Carlos Lee. I add if and only if Pat Burrell leaves…but I ythink its a longshot…

Gotta get back on Watching My old New York Undercover on Youtube That is my show for real. That show is still on point after 15 Years…

By Cherokee

November 19, 2008 3:19 AM | Link to this

Damn, just watched The Shield and it was absoulutely riveting, seriously one of the best hours of TV I can ever remember. 90-minute series finale next weekDOB

buncha dead people coming up, I hear

By nolie

November 19, 2008 3:25 AM | Link to this

But Towers still thinks he can bluff Wren into a desperation move (i.e., including HANSON or Schafer). BA

They prefer Gorkys over Schafer and he has already has been included. What I hear is they want Hanson or they want a 5th player, a quality pitching prospect like Locke or Rohrbrough. Can’t blame them. I wouldn’t trade a 27 year old CYA ace and take back pitchers as questionable as Morton or Reyes or Bennett.

By Tomahawkin

November 19, 2008 3:35 AM | Link to this

Oh yea…Yunel Escobar was rated 5th on the most underrated players list according to…

http://www.yardbarker.com/mlb/articles/MostunderratedMLBplayersof_2008/367576

Many don’t consider he was injured 1/5th of the season and played on a 90 loss team…

If he plays 144-155 games, he drives in 80-85 runs easily…

By CameronC.

November 19, 2008 3:42 AM | Link to this

DOB,

They say Tommy Hanson is done pitching in the AFL, because its only 2 games left, unless they make it to the championship game. Does that mean if Mesa makes it to the championship, Tommy Hanson will be the starter of that game?

By CameronC.

November 19, 2008 4:05 AM | Link to this

Personally I think Towers really messed himself up. I think the Braves are the only match for the Padres in trading Jake Peavy. Since Frank Wren said he was pulling out of the running to aquire Jake Peavy, I think if the Padres come running back, knowing they have to trade Peavy, I think the Braves have the floor now to do what they want. They will more than likely still have to give up Ecobar, and probably Hernandez, but other then those players I think they will be able to say who else is involved, I think they will get to choose between JoJo Reyes and Charlie Morton, because the Padres WILL be desperate to trade Peavy. So if the Padres DO come running back saying that the Braves the only choice, I think the Braves should stand ground and give them Escobar, Hernandez, thier choice of Reyes or Morton, and thats it. The Padres made the mistake of not accepting the deal the Braves offered and now the Cubs are pretty much out. And we all know Jake Peavy wants to stay in the NL, so that takes out the AL teams right? Also, I highly doubt the Padres will trade Peavy to the rival Dodgers and have to face him all those times. So if the Padres come running back, the Braves should end up coming out of this better than they would have if Towers would have been smart and take the deal they gave them. Anyone agree?

By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)

November 19, 2008 4:44 AM | Link to this

Personally, I’m comfortable with trading Escobar if Khalil Greene is included in the deal, I’m not totally happy with the idea, just satisfied that the Braves will have a good defensive SS.

I don’t want to trade Charlie Morton, his ceiling is near ace quality.

That said, this is what the Braves /Padres COULD agree on.

Yunel Escobar, Jo-Jo Reyes, Jorge Campillo, Gorkys Hernandez, Tyler Flowers and either Cole Rohrbough or Jeff Locke in exchange for Peavy and Greene.

We get our ace in Peavy and Greene to cover the SS position. The Padres get their SS in Escobar, two starting pitchers in Reyes and Campillo and three of the Braves top ten prospects in Hernandez, Locke or Rohrbough and Flowers. That’s two for six.

If Kevin Towers were to turn this trade down, he needs to be lobotomized.

By JimD

November 19, 2008 5:48 AM | Link to this

Coach

If Kevin Towers were to turn this trade down, he needs to be lobotomized.

Who’s to say he doesn’t already need to be? Can you recommend a good one for him? Who did yours?

By Nocturnal Owl

November 19, 2008 6:05 AM | Link to this

Lets not overpay for Khalil Greene. Dude has declined and we just can’t take that risk.

Another day filled with Peavy talks, could this be the day?

By Ted

November 19, 2008 6:20 AM | Link to this

1) No, I haven’t been reading the blog of late. But when I see career numbers and no mention of home/road split in the original post, I presume it is being ignored. My bad.

2) As for PETCO being around since 2004, evidently people have not followed baseball for more than a few years. Qualcomm was also a very well known pitcher’s park. So Peavy’s entire career has been pitching half his games in pitcher’s parks. And let’s not pretend Dodger Stadium is still a pitcher’s park - it has played neutral the last few years.

3) Peavy’s career ERA+ is 121. Burnett is 111 and Lowe is 122. Peavy is good. But not head and shoulders above everyone either.

4) Peavy’s VORP last year was 50.6. Lowe’s was 49.0. Burnett’s was 34.1. Escobar’s was 24.9. Last I checked, 50.6 - 24.9 was less than 34.1 or 49.0. But perhaps the schools I attended had funky math.

5) And I never said Burnett was an overall healthier option. But of Peavy, Lowe and Burnett, who was the only one on the DL last year (with an arm issue no less)?

6) If you actually read the entire post (perhaps the schools I attended had funky reading comprehension as well), my point was that while I think Peavy is a good pitcher, I don’t think, once you account for the fact that he’s pitched half his games in pitcher’s parks, he is THAT much better or THAT much cheaper or THAT much healthier to justify getting the deal done with more than what has allegedly been offered. Filling a hole by creating a hole is less appealing to me than simply filling a hole - even if the filler is not as good (but is still above average). And I also don’t think Peavy can come in and be expected to produce a 2.92 ERA here. So if it is 3.31, are we convinced that would be THAT much better than what Lowe or Burnett would produce here?

By Reality

November 19, 2008 6:20 AM | Link to this

Another day filled with Peavy talks, could this be the day?

No. Here is our future:

Wren tells Padres they have “till end of week”

By David O’Brien

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

Monday, February 9, 2009

Braves General Manager Frank Wren has informed the Padres that he will be “moving on for real this time” if a Peavy trade is not completed by Saturday, when pitchers and catchers report.

By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)

November 19, 2008 6:44 AM | Link to this

Ted, that’s an excellent analysis.

Peavy is a bit overrated. But only in the regular season. His real value lies in the post season. That is where he is capable of dominating. Unfortunately, our Braves won’t be seeing the post season anytime soon. Which is why the Braves should be eating all five years of Jake Peavy’s contract if this trade does go down.

JimD, I was lobotomized at birth, raised by little green men, given the secrets to the universe and told to tell no one except Fox Mulder. O yea, my computer does require nuclear batteries. Here is one earth shattering secret. If you concentrate real hard after eating eggs and drinking a six pack, then squeeze the old butt cheeks together and let one rip, you can actually fly for several seconds. Try it sometimes, it really works.

By Marc

November 19, 2008 7:12 AM | Link to this

I hope we don’t trade Yunel for Peavy. We don’t need him. Yes, it’s true, our starting rotation put up good numbers for most the season, up until the last couple months, but there’s multiple reasons for that. Our young guys are good; if we resign Hampton and another 2-tier FA pitcher then we’ll be OK.

What killed us last year was offensive. Tex started off slow and was traded just when he was heating up, Frenchy had a cruddy yeah, KJ and Yunel both had disappointing years, and we had trouble all season finding a productive for LF.

Call me stupid and crazy all you like, but the Braves’ primary need this year is a bat, not an arm.

By Roach

November 19, 2008 7:29 AM | Link to this

How can you say we dont need pitching. Three of our starters from last years ?’s. Smoltz, Glavine, Hudson. We know Smoltz and Hudson wont be in the rotation. (Hudson in August). A 2nd tier guy would help but no gaurantee we get hampton no gaurantee we get burnett/lowe. I do guarantee that if we trade for peavy. WE HAVE PEAVY!!!! A Cy Young guy who could carry this rotation for the next 5 years. Why not get him and build around McCann, Peavy, Frenchy, Schafer, Kotchman. All these guys are fairly young. Escobar is 26. Not like he is that much younger than Peavy. This is a chance to get a legit #1 and still has room to grow.

By favreiszeus

November 19, 2008 7:32 AM | Link to this

DOB - jumping in late on the BBQ convo here, but I was wondering in the off chance if you knew of any good joints up in the Winston-Salem, Greensboro, Lexington area.

I’m an Atlanta native, just recently made my way up here, and I am pretty disappointed so far with the ‘cue. Lexington is supposed to be the real deal, but I haven’t made it over there yet. Any thoughts?

By Paul Hamilton

November 19, 2008 7:44 AM | Link to this

There is one major flaw with your timeline or theory DOB. You said “can the Braves wait around for a month or more and hope that they land Lowe?”

Well I guess they are going to have to wait around. You say that the Yankees are basically a given to land Sabathia and Burnett; Dempster already signed with the Cubs. That leaves Lowe as the top pitcher left in free agency. With less teams bidding for Peavy, I certainly wouldn’t offer the Padres the same deal now that they are desperate. The Braves are going to have to play the waiting game or make a serious offer to Burnett. I honestly don’t see why the Padres would all of a sudden accept the last deal for Peavy. Towers has been fumbling about with their offseason priorities, so it’s kind of like admitting your a dumb a*.

By Aaron

November 19, 2008 8:04 AM | Link to this

I for one do not want a return to being a team that loses 2/3 of our games 2-0 because we have good pitching and no one to hit the ball…don’t trade Escobar for a pitcher that is only a few innings away from shoulder problems!

By Sam

November 19, 2008 8:04 AM | Link to this

Please Wren make the trade for Peavy happen. I don’t want to see Glavine and Hampton as our big free agent deals. Getting Peavy will help the Braves lure some quality free agent players to fill our glaring holes (LF, CF, starting pitching…) When have the Braves ever been afraid of trading farm help?

By sam

November 19, 2008 8:21 AM | Link to this

I don’t mind trading Escobar and signing Furcal. Where would the drop of be? I don’t want to lose 2/3 of the year 2-0 either. If the Braves don’t sign a #1 Starter the scores will be much worse than 2-0.

By augustagolfer

November 19, 2008 8:46 AM | Link to this

What happened to the Braves needing 2 starters? I think we need Peavy and Lowe to be competitive next year.

By Chris

November 19, 2008 8:52 AM | Link to this

“Not Hardly” in the link to this blog?

That is the fine grammar we have come to expect from the AJC.

By Roach

November 19, 2008 9:01 AM | Link to this

Trade for Peavy. Sign Raffie Furcal. Sign Oliver Perez. Sign Glavine. Trade for Justin Upton/Conor Jackson.

By Don't Trade Franceour, Sheesh

November 19, 2008 9:05 AM | Link to this

Hey Chris…what part of the term “Braves Beat Blog” did you think implied this was some sort of formal writing forum?

By Fred Secunda

November 19, 2008 9:10 AM | Link to this

DOB, had a chopped beef sandwich from Bodacious BBQ in Henderson, TX yesterday. If you ever get a chance to head over to East Texas, do yourself a favor and try one of these, and bring home a bottle of sauce while you’re at it.

By Murphy

November 19, 2008 9:12 AM | Link to this

The Shield: The scene where Vic spills it to the Feds…seriously just amazing. The look on his face…I was holding my breath with the intensity of that moment.

By Jonathon

November 19, 2008 9:20 AM | Link to this

Latest from Ken Rosenthal:

**The Yankees’ farm system is strong enough to match up with the Padres if the teams revive their discussions on right-hander Jake Peavy. The Padres, according to one major-league source, told the Yankees that a deal would be possible even if the Yankees declined to offer right-hander Phil Hughes.

The Padres scouted Hughes in a recent Arizona Fall League game, but the Yankees have zero intention of trading him …**

There is no way the Yanks could offer as much as has been reported to have been the Braves’ best offer. Cashman doesn’t strike me as crazy enough to overpay for Sabathia, Burnett and Lowe, plus give up major prospects for Peavy. That’s burning the candle at both ends. I think Towers is snorting the third base line at this point.

By Original Jon

November 19, 2008 9:32 AM | Link to this

What the hell does Towers mean, the Yankees can have Peavy without giving up Hughes? But yet he wanted Hanson from us. What is he trying to do, slight Frank Wren for not doing a trade?

By the Donger

November 19, 2008 9:36 AM | Link to this

DOB, Peavy is out of the picture now, let’s move on. The Padres want way too much for him. Yes, he’s “affordable” but their player demands are ridiculous.

What’s the latest on Hampton? Any word on what we’ve offered him, or if he wants to stay here? Is he willing to agree to an incentive-laden deal?

By Original Jon

November 19, 2008 9:41 AM | Link to this

I fear that this will soon be a team that no free agent will want to sign with once Bobby Cox is gone. The Braves are in jeopardy of this because we have gone 3 straight years without placing higher than third and Bobby Cox is on the brink of retirement. The combination of losing and Bobby leaving will not make anyone want to sign with us unless we have the money to bandy about, which we dont unfortunately. Hate to be all doom and gloom, but this is what it feels like to me.

By GSU-Lee

November 19, 2008 9:43 AM | Link to this

DOB, Butch’s BBQ and Breakfast in Morganton. There is one in Valdese too. You ever been to Williamson Bro’s BBQ around here? That stuff is pretty good too.

By TommyP

November 19, 2008 9:44 AM | Link to this

IF the Cubs snag Peavy in a multiple team deal, what a rotation they’ll have in the Windy City.

Peavy, Zambrano, Dempster, Harden and Lilly?????

WOW.

Seems strange to have the Braves linked to Furcal when we have other major holes needing to be filled.

I get the feeling the Braves will sign/trade for one big name pitcher and then settle for a lesser piece as the 2nd pitcher. (Randy Wolf comes to mind)

By Original Jon

November 19, 2008 9:44 AM | Link to this

the Donger The questions about Hampton have been answered at length already, just read the blog man and you will see.

By Lee in S GA

November 19, 2008 9:48 AM | Link to this

The Yankees could offer Joba Chamberlain or Ian Kennedy and a young pitching prospect, along with say Melky Cabrera or Brett Gardner and throw in Robinson Cano to sweeten the pot and it is probably a done deal. Even though Peavy say he doesn’t want to go to the A.L. most players seem to change their minds when the Yankees are involved.

By ChopChopHipHop

November 19, 2008 9:48 AM | Link to this

DOB, interesting to hear that somebody else on the planet knows about Parker’s BBQ in Greenville. It’s awesome. The best I have had is McCall’s BBQ in Goldsboro, NC. Nothing like eastern North Carolina style BBQ. There are lots of BBQ places around where I live now, but they are all too commercial. You know, sort of like most of our “Mexican” restaurants being “Texican”.

By GSU-Lee

November 19, 2008 9:50 AM | Link to this

The Donger, DOB mentioned it up top. Hampton won’t make a decision or receive offers for a little bit. He wants to be closer to Arizona if possible. I think DOB said he wanted to stay here if possible. But if he gets a chance to be closer to home he may take it.

By Roach

November 19, 2008 9:52 AM | Link to this

I would rather sign Oliver Perez somebody with an upside than resign hampton

By Roach

November 19, 2008 9:53 AM | Link to this

Hampton would be cheap though

By crabapple

November 19, 2008 9:56 AM | Link to this

Call me crazy but Oliver Perez, Randy Wolf and Juan Rivera would not break the bank and sell the farm. This trio would be reliable enough to keep the team around 500 (an improvement) until the youngsters are more experience say around 2010.

Face it this team will not contend next season anyway. Phillies are too good and the Mets and Marlins are currently better than the Braves.

It will be Cox’s final season as manager or at least no contract extension will be extended until the final standing results. Not so convinced Smoltz will resign with them providing he can pitch again either. This off season will help him decide that or not.

That’s right people - times are changing for the Braves.

By Josh H

November 19, 2008 10:10 AM | Link to this

DOB:

Are there any lefties the Braves could be targetting in a trade?

We have Morton, Hanson, Campillo and Jurrjens who are all righties. Correct me if I’m wrong but most of the major free agents (Burnett, Lowe) are righties as well.

Our rotation is looking very right-handed if we don’t land a left-handed starter and Jo Jo doesn’t work out in the majors. I know we have Locke, but isn’t he still a few years away?

By TennesseePaul

November 19, 2008 10:11 AM | Link to this

Peavy’s VORP last year was 50.6. Lowe’s was 49.0. Burnett’s was 34.1. Escobar’s was 24.9. Last I checked, 50.6 - 24.9 was less than 34.1 or 49.0. But perhaps the schools I attended had funky math.

Oh for crying out loud…

So, to prove your point you are going to subtract Yunel’s VORP from Peavy’s to show that Peavy’s better VORP (which is head and shoulders above Burnett) is actually less than Burnett? As if the Braves don’t intend to trade one of KJ or Yunel if they obtain the oft injured Burnett? Must be fair with the math. I hope they taught you how to balance the equation. Subtract the same amount from both sides… and while you’re at it, add in the replacement… Peavy is still better.

Peavy is a 27 year old who struggled in Qualcom, the pitchers park that now suddenly is the equivalent of PETCO. Should we have stayed away from Maddux because his first two seasons were bad? The break down above shows what Peavy did in the last five years. It’s better than Burnett. Easily. Which is why his VORP is so much higher.

Now I need to go wash this VORP off.

By brooklynbrave

November 19, 2008 10:15 AM | Link to this

DOB- you mentioned my hometown, Goldsboro, NC, last night…. so i know you’ve been to wilbur’s right? miss that here up north in nyc, but there are a few spots up here that do it right- get the pork ribs at Hill Country on 25th and chicken wings [seriously] at Dinosaur on 125th in harlem.

By Bill

November 19, 2008 10:19 AM | Link to this

Red Sox’s trade Coco Crisp to K.C. It look’s like trades will pick up. Wondering if the Braves might have something going with the Royals.

By tennesseejed

November 19, 2008 10:20 AM | Link to this

Looks like Towers is making noise about the Yankees being involved again, without having to move Hughes. Lord just let this be over, regardless where he lands.

By Brian

November 19, 2008 10:22 AM | Link to this

DOB

In your 12:15 AM post you mentioned some good BBQ joints in Atlanta, but didn’t name names. I could use a few tips on a good Q place in the ATL.

Pig -n- Chick is good in my opinion as well as Fat Matts rib shack, if it is still open. Since I am not in town that much I don’t get a chance to try many places.

By Patrick

November 19, 2008 10:23 AM | Link to this

I know Rosenthal is a pretty well respected journalist. But I have a real real tough time imagining that the Yankees farm team could appease Towers. I was listening on XM just last week when their own beat writing said they haven’t had a good draft in the last 15 years and that their farm system is non-exsistent.

I’m sorry but I just don’t be Ken here

By welikebaseball2

November 19, 2008 10:24 AM | Link to this

DOB: I haven’t heard any suggestions, other than signing Furcal, as to replacing Escobar. I think losing Escobar would hurt/impact the team much more than losing Johnson would. So, 1) Who do you see as a replacement for Escobar? 2) Is it that the Padres had no interest in Johnson (maybe his trade value is much lower…maybe neither side ever mentioned him as part of the package)?

By Don't Trade Franceour, Sheesh

November 19, 2008 10:24 AM | Link to this

I like something like that crabapple…

Give Jon Garland $13-14 million a year for 3-4 years.

Go after one of Hampton/Perez/Wolf for 2-3 year deal worth $20-30 million

Then do what you can to get a Rivera (or Dunn if you are feeling bold)…

Then hope for the best from Smoltz/Glavine

:-)

By Patrick

November 19, 2008 10:30 AM | Link to this

DOB, you’ll like to hear this!!! Since you and Ohman are buds.

One of the beat writers for the Cards posted this article today implying that Ohman is going nowhere!

Link: http://www.bnd.com/sports/story/547681.html

By Steve from OH

November 19, 2008 10:31 AM | Link to this

Lou Vales, you’ll have to forgive my skepticism, but I hardly think the level of bipartisanship in Obama’s cabinet is relevant to baseball or interesting at this point in time. It’s true that economics are important to baseball, but for our purposes, as DOB and McGuirk has stated, payroll is holding steady and even going up a bit if management sees fit. That’s all the economics that are relevant to us at this point in time. If you feel that the 30 teams in MLB are spending their money unwisely, well, that’s tough crap, because it’s their money and they can do with it as they see fit. Write a letter to Bud Selig. Write your congressman. Tell it to your local bartender, I don’t care. But please, don’t bring all that crap here. If I want to know the ramifications of the bailout or the price of a barrel of oil, I’ll turn on CNN or Foxnews or whatever. I hope you’ll do the same, and maybe participate in some of the engaging baseball talk that has been going on lately, which you appear capable of doing when you put your mind to it.

Sorry if I sort of spoke for you last night DOB, but that stuff really grinds my gears. Hate the politics, racism, etc. that creep on here. Ugh, I’m gonna have to turn on some Whitesnake to calm myself down.

Nocturnal Owl, I’d rather have Perez, due to age and upside, not neglecting the fact that Hammy is likely to injure himself while eating his morning cereal. Hammy will be cheaper, so it’ll depend on how FW wants to allocate his resources at that point in time. As for the BBQ? I know it’s only 10:30 in the AM, but I could really go for some pulled pork right now….

By brooklynbrave

November 19, 2008 10:41 AM | Link to this

KC has a lot of outfield options now….. makes one wonder

By MizzouBravesFan

November 19, 2008 10:43 AM | Link to this

Rosenthal seriously needs to stop with the Yankees…he’s the only one pining for Peavy to go there.

He needs to understand…IT’S NOT HAPPENING.

By Nate

November 19, 2008 10:45 AM | Link to this

What’s wrong with just admitting that 2009 will be a rebuilding year? Its gonna shape up that way whether we like it or not.

I agree that the Braves need an ace. And I agree that Peavy is the only ace the braves have a shot at landing this winter. But, trading Yunel forces the braves to spend another 10 million to add a shortstop. That it put the Braves at about 26 million added in payroll with holes still to be filled in the rotation, and the outfield.

Trading Yunel for Peavy will cost the Braves 26 million a year. No player is worth 26 million to the Braves.

By Lew

November 19, 2008 10:48 AM | Link to this

Patrick-The Cardinals are still p!$$ed that the Braves didn’t trade Ohman to them last year at the trade deadline. It was pretty funny-I watch my games on The Extra Innings package on cable and you often end up with the other team’s feed. Such was the case with the Braves/Cardinals games in August.

All their announcers did during the Braves’ series after the deadline, was to gripe and complain about how much the Braves wanted for Ohman and how much we overvalued him. They actually got pretty vocal and quite bitter about the situation. It was kind of like “How dare the Braves want so much for him. He’s only a LHRP.” Of course, all their b!tching showed was just how much they really wanted the Dude. Hope we keep him in Atlanta.

I got the chance to talk to Will at Spring Training a few times last year. Just like DOB says-the Dude is a trip and I bet he’s great in the clubhouse. He’ll keep it loose, for sure. Considering the work load thrust on him last year, his performance is all the more impressive. He’s a keeper if we can afford him.

By tennessejed

November 19, 2008 10:49 AM | Link to this

Looks like the Cubbies are still in it too. I’m hearing that the Yanks might be willing to part with Jackson, Kennedy and Betances. That would not be a bad package.

By DAP

November 19, 2008 10:50 AM | Link to this

i think the braves should consider signing freddie garcia, or especially mark mulder. both of these guys are in thier early thirties, and can be very good pitchers. they are coming off of injuries, so they may be had for less…

By DAP

November 19, 2008 10:52 AM | Link to this

i wish david dejesus was on the block.

By David O'Brien

November 19, 2008 10:57 AM | Link to this

They say Tommy Hanson is done pitching in the AFL, because its only 2 games left, unless they make it to the championship game. Does that mean if Mesa makes it to the championship, Tommy Hanson will be the starter of that game?CameronC

Yes, it does. They’ve planned for weeks that he would start that Nov. 22 (Saturday) game if Mesa is in it.

By Efrim

November 19, 2008 11:01 AM | Link to this

Crisp for Ramon Ramirez, KC sure has a lot of outfielders now.

By David O'Brien

November 19, 2008 11:01 AM | Link to this

DOB: I haven’t heard any suggestions, other than signing Furcal, as to replacing Escobar.welikebaseball2

Well, we’ve written other options Braves would consider here numerous times. Here they are again, names I know they’ve at least discussed at some point this offseason: Free agents Furcal, Renteria, Orlando Cabrera, Cesar Izturis, and possible trade targets Maicer Izturis, J.J. Hardy and Jack Wilson.

By Thrillhouse44

November 19, 2008 11:06 AM | Link to this

Even if the Yanks can put together a good package, who says Peavy is willing to play there?

By Josh H

November 19, 2008 11:06 AM | Link to this

I’m confused. What is so good about David DeJesus?

Does he have huge potential or something? Because his stats just don’t scream “power bat” to me.

By Lew

November 19, 2008 11:08 AM | Link to this

Nate-There’s an inherent mistake in your rationale, to my way of thinking-though it’s hardly just you who’s thinking this way. IMO, The Braves will NOT sign a $10 million shortstop to replace Yunel if he is traded. I think they’ll make a deal that included a younger, cheaper SS. I would be highly shocked if we were to sign Furcal or someone of that ilk and salary range. Like you said-Too many holes to fill and too much money for that position. Makes no sense to spend that kind of $$$$ when pitching will be so expensive. Simple budget economics.

By David O'Brien

November 19, 2008 11:09 AM | Link to this

ChopChopHipHop: There’s two Parker’s — one in Greenville, N.C., where I grew up, and the other in Wilson, N.C., where my parents now live, and where we eat every time that I visit them. Places haven’t changed in decades. Simple as it gets, no pretense, just great food and dirt-cheap.

Brian: In Atlanta, I love Daddy Dz and Wyatt’s (both are on Memorial Drive) and Fox Brothers BBQ (I’ve only had it from Smith’s Olde Bar, not from the actual restaurant Fox Brothers opened on Dekalb Ave. a year or two ago). There’s plenty of others, including the legendar Harold’s BBQ (believe it or not, I still haven’t eaten there) Pig n Chik (very good) and the aforementioned Fat Matt’s and Dusty’s.

By Efrim

November 19, 2008 11:14 AM | Link to this

Buster Olney wrote again about Peavy to the Braves for the 11th time this offseason:

Padres, Braves need to finalize Peavy trade

So the Braves’ best shot at a free agent might be with Oliver Perez — and with all due respect to the talented but erratic lefty, he is not the kind of consistent impact pitcher that Atlanta wants or needs. And as the free agents come off the board, and the Braves remain empty-handed, the leverage of San Diego GM Kevin Towers will rise — not significantly, but incrementally.

Yunel Escobar is in the proposed deal, and so will outfielder Gorkys Hernandez, and a pitcher, probably Jo-Jo Reyes, plus minor league pitchers. So Atlanta stands to make a deal for the 2007 Cy Young Award winner without surrendering: A) their top pitching prospect, Tommy Hanson; B) their top outfield prospect, Jason Heyward; C) The player who is thought by some scouts to be their second-best outfield prospect, Jordan Schaefer.

By Jonathon

November 19, 2008 11:16 AM | Link to this

DOB,

Would the Royals acquiring Coco Crisp (rumor has it he’s been dealt for reliever Ramon Ramirez) allow the Braves to potentially enter discussions with KC for a guy like David DeJesus?

By Efrim

November 19, 2008 11:17 AM | Link to this

Interesting take on how Towers has handled the Peavy negotiaitions:

http://www.athleticsnation.com/2008/11/18/664860/padres-gm-kevin-towers-pen

By stamper

November 19, 2008 11:19 AM | Link to this

anyone go to the Kings of Leon/We are Scientists/Whigs show last night?

it was absolutely brilliant. all 3 bands brought the house down! Kings did a great job mixing their classics with the new stuff. Def in my top ten shows of the year.

By Don't Trade Franceour, Sheesh

November 19, 2008 11:22 AM | Link to this

So it seems everybody in America knows that the Padres and the Braves both have to make this trade, each for their own reasons, except for Kevin Towers (and maybe Frank Wren)…

..Kinda like everyone in America knows college football has to have a playoff except for the head of the Rose Bowl.

By David O'Brien

November 19, 2008 11:22 AM | Link to this

Favreiszeus, there are scores of BBQ joints in that area, but you’re sort of on the dividing line between Eastern N.C. BBQ and the other half N.C. “Lexington-style” BBQ. Both are great, but their sauce is red in the other half — vinegar-based, but not clear. It has tomato paste or ketchup they put in it, and sometimes a shot of Worchestershire sauce. Why they do this, I don’t know, but they swear by it.

Also, I think they only use the pork shoulder, not the whole hog.

Anyway, it’s still great BBQ, even for an Eastern N.C. ‘que zealot. Go to the legendary Lexington Barbecue No. 1 (that’s the name of it. Google it or ask, everyone over there knows where it is).

Listening to some Reckless Kelly. Talk about underrated bands….

By Bubdylan

November 19, 2008 11:22 AM | Link to this

If Mesa does make it to the AFL Championship Game, we can watch Tommy pitch for 15 dollars on MLB tv (don’t tell Lou Vales I spent that much). That’s the price of their offseason package, which includes a broadcast of that game.

Go Mesa.

By flange1

November 19, 2008 11:29 AM | Link to this

Morning All,

Steve from OH,

I agree with on Lou Vales rants! I don’t see that they have a point on this blog and further, I am not sure of the point he is trying to make.

Yes the economy sucks right now. Yes folks are out of work. Yes the stock market is down. Yes the banks are hurting.

If the point of this is that athletes make too much money, I agree! So do actors and corporate executives.

But can we change that? NO.

I take all of that stuff as a given and move on.

Why complain that the sky is blue when there is nothing you can do to change it?

I agree that baseball and BBQ is far more interesting! If I want politics and ethics, I doubt seriously that Lou Vales will be the guy I want to discuss it with.

On to baseball,

I do think the Royals have something up their sleeve. They have too many OF and 1B right now, maybe they have something working..

I think the Peavy deal will still happen. I think Towers and FW have to suck it up and get the deal done.

We will probably have to give up Locke.

It hurts, but so be it.

By Ted

November 19, 2008 11:29 AM | Link to this

As if the Braves don’t intend to trade one of KJ or Yunel if they obtain the oft injured Burnett? Must be fair with the math. I hope they taught you how to balance the equation. Subtract the same amount from both sides… and while you’re at it, add in the replacement… Peavy is still better.

Uh, genius, the Braves HAVE to trade Yunel to get Peavy. They do not HAVE to trade him (or KJ) to get a free agent pitcher. So in a deal for Peavy, the net effect of giving up your starting SS for a SP (who I’ve always said was better - sheesh, talk about lack of reading comprehension) increases the overall talent of the team less than simply signing one of the other FA pitchers. And as for the replacement SS, you need to define who that will be (of course you’d also need to define the “value” of the SP Peavy is replacing).

And so what if they trade one of Yunel, KJ to get another player - you’d then need to add the value of that player to the discussion. THAT is what is called balancing the equation.

By David O'Brien

November 19, 2008 11:29 AM | Link to this

Stamper, why’d you have to go and remind me about that triple bill? Damn, I meant to get tickets to that a month ago, then figured I’d wait to make sure nothing was going on with Peavy, etc., that might force me to miss the show.

Until I read your comment just now, I’d completely forgotten about the show. And I really like all three of those bands. Had to be a great show.

By John Adcox

November 19, 2008 11:31 AM | Link to this

When talking about Barbeque in Georgia, you really need to at least mention Maddy’s on Scott Blvd, Finchers in Macon, and Old Smokehouse just off the 4th exit heading north on 985. The latter is the only three-time winner of the Stone Mountain ‘cue cookoff, which I think should mean something, at least. It’s mighty tasty.

By Johnny B

November 19, 2008 11:34 AM | Link to this

Hello DOB and all faithful followers!

DOB glad you enjoyed you’re long weekend off, it was certainly deserving.

Curious if you think B Jones or M Diaz will be in the Braves plans for next season? Also, what do you think about Juan Rivera as a possible LF pickup? Could come relatively cheap and has shown good power when given the chance to play.

By muxi87

November 19, 2008 11:34 AM | Link to this

There we go…a plug for Reckless Kelly!!! Great band…only outdone on the underrated band list by Cross Canadian Ragweed.

Now back to our program: GET THIS PEAVY DEAL DONE!!!

By JOE

November 19, 2008 11:36 AM | Link to this

When are we going to talk to the Dodgers about bringing Andruw Jones back. he wants to finish his career here? (laugh) Thanks for info on Hampton..

By Efrim

November 19, 2008 11:37 AM | Link to this

DOB

Not to beat a dead horse, but, you think this Peavy deal gets done before I’m eating turkey next Thursday?

By DAP

November 19, 2008 11:38 AM | Link to this

josh h dejesus isnt a “power bat”, but id say he has 20 homer potential, with good bat control and OBP. he doesnt strikeout much, i think he would make a great #2 or even leadoff hitter. he also plays all three outfield positions. hes a good player.

By Ritchie from Scotland

November 19, 2008 11:42 AM | Link to this

DOB: long time reader, first time poster. I actually live in Glasgow, Scotland. Have you ever come across anyone else from across the pond on your blog!? I’m a long time Braves fan ever since watching them in the World Series on tv whilst on holiday in Florida when i was 10 years old. Anyways, here’s an opinion on the winter so far from a Scotsman. We need Peavy. I don’t mind giving up Escobar, he’s good and could be great but i’m not 100% on his attitude. If Furcal would like to come back even better, he’s worth it as long as his back’s ok. We do really need a leadoff man. In terms of the free agent starters i think the only realistic chance at the top starters is with Lowe. If the Yankees get Burnett then we’ll have to convince Lowe to come to Atlanta and not Boston, which will be hard. It’s more likely we’ll end up with someone like Garland or Perez, but if we do we definetely need Peavy. I’m really stuck on who we get as the big bat in the outfield, we want a right hander. There’s Pat Burrell but i don’t think the Braves are high on him, emil brown who pretty much stinks and Manny who just doesn’t fit the Braves attitude (and too expensive). I know there’s more but thats just a few examples, alot of the better free agent outfielders are left handed. Maybe we have to go the trade route to fill that hole to, but we really need to keep the farm intact as possible, especially if we trade for Peavy.

Anyway i just thought i’d through in my 2 pence, or 2 cents seen as your all American :)

PS. DOB do you only eat barbecue?? I’ll send you over some haggis, that’ll put some hairs on your chest.

Ritchie

By Bama

November 19, 2008 11:42 AM | Link to this

If taking* K Greeneand adding another player to get Peavy (do the deal). Greene may have his best year because he wants out of SD. and he could be traded if Braves desire. Greene is better than a few SS we’ve had. Everything keeps coming back to *Peavy deal. Wren and Tower need to hammer this deal out ASP .Both side have to give a little. I’m sure Greene will cut his hair for Bobby. He!! what do I know I,m just a Fan.

By David O'Brien

November 19, 2008 11:42 AM | Link to this

Jonathan, is David DeJesus (or Coco Crisp, for that matter) really good enough to bring over and have standing in the way of Schafer? I think if you’re getting a CF to play ahead of Schafer, it’s gotta be better than either of those guys. And it’s also not a priority.

Braves need a POWER bat for the outfield, and DeJesus isn’t that.

By David O'Brien

November 19, 2008 11:47 AM | Link to this

John Adcox, I’ve been meaning to get to Maddy’s and you just convinced me. I’m going this week. Honestly. I hear it’s an awesome place, with blues bands playing some nights, etc, and really good chow. And the place is only 10-15 minutes from my house. Definitely going, and I’ll let you know what I think afterward. But I’ve heard nothing but good things about it.

Haven’t been to Old Smokehouse. Don’t get up that way. But I think there are a couple of good (motorcycle) rides that run near there, so I need to make a note of that one, too. If it won all those awards, hey, I need to try it.

Thanks for the input. (And the reminder to get my arse to Maddy’s soon.) Everyone who can afford to buy BBQ, do so to spark the economy!

By David O'Brien

November 19, 2008 11:48 AM | Link to this

Ritchie, would you believe we have a semi-regular poster from Scotland? Well, we do. He hasn’t posted in a while, but he will after he sees this, I’m betting.

By Braveheart

November 19, 2008 11:51 AM | Link to this

If you ever find yourself wondering why the Braves just don’t rid themselves of Frenchy, read all of these ridiculous get Juan Rivera posts. Juan Rivera is Jeff Francoeur, just 5 years older and a bit more Venezuelan. Do you really want two Francoeurs in the outfield next season?

By N8

November 19, 2008 11:51 AM | Link to this

DOB

“N8: Thanks for setting us straight, brother. We’re all set now….”

While you know me, I always appreciate (and expect) some good sarcasm. I’ll assume that you disagree with me.

Why?

Do you really, honestly think that without Peavy in the fold, ANYBODY is really gonna sign with the Braves (in the Burnett, Lowe “category”), if all things and offers are within reason of another?

Maybe it won’t be the Yankees. But it will be one of the teams that DIDN’T finish 20 games out of 1st place. Just my opinion.

If I’m wrong, I’ll have ZERO problem admitting I was wrong and apologizing to all. When have I ever NOT done that?

I don’t think I’m wrong.

If Wren is gonna fix this team, it’s gonna be via trades. It’s not 1994 anymore, free agents aren’t dying to come to Atlanta.

Furcal might be the only guy that comes “home”. Do we really want him? Again, the only real need for him, is if Peavy is acquired for Yunel. But if Towers and Wren drag this out any longer, the free agents might all be gone by then.

Believe me. I’d RATHER have Lowe, Burnett and Yunel on the team, than Peavy, Furcal and Randy Wolf.

But honestly. Why on earth would Scott Boras try convincing Lowe to go to Atlanta? Give me one good reason, besides money. Because I don’t think Wren will outbid the others. Unless he’s desperate, and then it will be over-bidding in terms of years, which is damn near counter productive, IMO.

Maybe you have more faith in Wren, Bobby’s “drawing power” and whatever other reasons you think players (free agents) would choose Atlanta.

But here’s the thing. Three years running of missing the playoffs. That was WITH Smoltz and Hudson for 2 of those years. Unless a player has a helluva lot of confidence in his own ability to take the Braves to the top, (which Peavy couldn’t do in SD), they’re gonna need help. Want help.

Since Dick Vermiel left KC (I know football is different - but in actuality parity makes it more likely that an NFL team turns it around quickly), literally zero big name free agents have chosen to even VISIT Kansas City, much less sign there.

They have however signed guys like Napoleon Harris and Damian McIntosh. The NFL’s version of Randy Wolf and David Eckstein.

Players wanna go where they can win, be stars and make a name for themselves.

I’ve been saying it for weeks, and I get I’m just a fan, without inside info. But this is gonna take two years, not one.

Again. If Wren pulls this all off, and the Braves can keep up with the Mets and Phils in 2009, I’ll eat my words (all 2000 of them).

Go Braves in 2010.

By flange1

November 19, 2008 11:52 AM | Link to this

In terms of good BBQ,

If you are in Columbus, GA there are many GREAT BBQ joints, Country’s has a couple of locations Macon Road BBQ is GREAT, and Smokey Pig has the best pulled pork I have ever eaten.

A few other places are good, but these 3 are my favorites.

Have to agree in the ATL with Dusty’s and Fat Matts. If you haven’t been to Harolds, you need to give it a try….

By DAP

November 19, 2008 11:54 AM | Link to this

DOB is David DeJesus (or Coco Crisp, for that matter) really good enough to bring over and have standing in the way of Schafer?

it woudnt hurt to have a good player like dejesus, especially since we dont really know how good shafer will be.

By Ryan H

November 19, 2008 11:55 AM | Link to this

DOB…I know you aren’t big on doing this, but just for fun….how about you throw out there what you think the starting position players and starting pitchers will be for the Braves come opening day. I will give it a try….

1st—Kotch 2nd—Prado SS—Escobar 3rd—Chipper C—Mc RF—Jeff CF—Schafer LF—Ludwick

Sp—?? Sp—JJ Sp—Randy Wolf Sp—Hanson Sp—Morton

I am kind of lost on the SP’s.

By Ritchie from Scotland

November 19, 2008 11:56 AM | Link to this

really? thats good to hear, if only baseball was more popular over here, it really is frustrating for us baseball obsessed bunch in the UK….staying up to 4am watching live games…never getting to experience the ballark atmosphere..especially when you see NBA and NFL games coming to London. MLB in the UK would sell out in seconds. No kidding. There’s just not a good enough venue for it. Flights to the US aren’t cheap, especially on a students budget, but i am planning a 8 city trip in 2010. Using that student loan wisely….

By Lou Vales

November 19, 2008 12:00 PM | Link to this

Okay!!! My last comment on this!! I don’t believe baseball players are overpaid if someone is willing to pay them. I do believe that 17 franchises, as I can figure, are located in areas that face severe economic downturn in next few years. I believe this most ASSUREDLY affects MLB because those teams by the very loss in attendance, advertising and broadcast revenue will have an impact on competitive balance. The big guys WILL BE paid, the other guys will begin to see the squeeze. As the teams who are somewhat immune from economic impact sign the bigger names and distance themselves from the also rans you are going to see situation where you have 15 haves and 15 have nots. When the have nots see themselves as no longer capable of being competitive they will scale pack more and you will see heavy dilution in those markets. Do you guys really not see the relevance of this to MLB??

By Braveheart

November 19, 2008 12:01 PM | Link to this

I don’t get why so many believe Towers has the leverage now. He’s got no market. None. Zero. Nada. Zilch. He can’t go into next season with this guy on his roster and budget. He can’t afford it.

Wren, even if he doesn’t get the top tier FAs or Jake, will still have alternatives to pursue in fielding at least a modestly competitive and profitable team next season. Towers doesn’t have that luxury.

If this guy is still on the team next year, they will have to give him $2 million a month, which would be $1.5 million more than they would have to give Escobar a month.

So if they hold onto him for the first four months until the trading deadline, the owner is going call Towers and say, hey, buffoon, you just lost me $6 million friggin’ dollars. Do you know what I could have done with that $6 million dollars? I could have paid the attorneys fees in this freaking divorce action I’m going through.

By Bama

November 19, 2008 12:04 PM | Link to this

Sorry about the bold crap. My bad.

By cody

November 19, 2008 12:05 PM | Link to this

Hey everybody accoriding to the espn website Buster Only is reporting that the Peavy to Atlanta deal is back up and running. According to the article both sides are being pressured to get it done. Go read.

By LT-A blogger

November 19, 2008 12:09 PM | Link to this

I have a feeling the Yankees will wind up with Peavy. Mainly because the older I get the more often I find those adages we always hear are adages for a reason, e.g. the rich keep getting richer.

If they sign Sabathia long term, I think they’ll easily be willing to give up more pitching prospects than the Braves can or will. If they could land Peavy and Burnette and Sabathia, they’d immediately be back on level or ahead of the Sox or Rays. With the rumors continuing to swirl, Towers is looking smarter by the day to me.

Either way it hashes out, I’ll not be disappointed. If we land Peavy, great- we’ve got a solid 1 starter for 4-5 years. If not, we’ll most likely not be trading Escobar (unless a Cain or Greinke suddenly become untouchable). I am excited to see some new faces in the rotation next year- hoping that we’ll get to see if Jojo/Morton can take that next step and Hansen can make that leap.

The one thing I don’t want to see the Braves get in and that is a bidding war. Wren has made his offer and should stick to it. I don’t think the Braves will do anything but lose if they start bidding against the Yanks/Cubs.

By Jonathon

November 19, 2008 12:12 PM | Link to this

Thanks, DOB. So, why would KC trade for a 2nd CF? Are they potentially the 3rd team Chicago needs in order to get a deal done for Peavy? KC is defintely thin when it comes to major-league ready corner outfielders with power. I think the list starts and stops with Teahen. Just curious to know if you think the waves from the Crisp trade could affect The Chronicles of Peavy.

By Evan

November 19, 2008 12:15 PM | Link to this

DOB, I was excited to see that Buster Olney over at ESPN was reporting the Peavy talks had opened back up, unfortunately he was only quoting your speculation. Don’t get me wrong, I know you know your stuff, but I was hoping he had a direct quote from Towers or Wren.

Regardless, congrats on the link from ESPN. I know it’s not a new thing for you, but it’s fun to click on a link at a major sports site, only to be directed back to the blog I read every day.

By Steve from OH

November 19, 2008 12:16 PM | Link to this

Braveheart, I think you’re dead on about Peavy/Towers. He’s not going to be able to swing a deal to the Cubs, and there really aren’t any other suitors out there—except Atlanta. To steal one of Coach’s lines, Wren’s got Towers over the [darn] barrel.

Oh, wait, excuse me, I’m not doing the fashionable thing and bashing the Braves, their FO, and being hopelessly pessimistic beyond the scope of rational thought. Never mind. We’re screwed. We’ll never get Peavy. The horror!

By ncscoots

November 19, 2008 12:17 PM | Link to this

Do you know what I could have done with that $6 million dollars? I could have paid the attorneys fees in this freaking divorce action I’m going through.

Well…some of them, anyway.

By jim

November 19, 2008 12:18 PM | Link to this

Coco just traded to KC for a LH relief pitcher. Thank God we don’t have to talk about Coco anymore on this Blog. He would not have been the answer to any of our questions. Anderson is at least the equivalent and he’s better than Blanco.

By Lew

November 19, 2008 12:20 PM | Link to this

Braveheart-I see the point you’re making re: the salary difference between Peavy and Yunel. However, it’s more of a disparity than that. At a half mil a month, Yunel would be making $3 mil a year. He made $402,000 last year, or about $70,000 a month-not a half mil.

By Nate

November 19, 2008 12:21 PM | Link to this

Trading for a shortstop to replace Yunel would seem unlikely to me, because the trade to San Diego would had dropped our number of desirable and available prospects.

The Braves surely could trade for or sign a replacement level shortstop somehow, but to replace Escobar’s production the Braves would have to spend some money. Maybe some of the sabermetrics guys on her could tell us what the expected wins would be for the team with Peavy and a replacement level shortstop would be versus the team as now constituted.

I understand the need for an ace in the playoffs, but having an ace is little consolation if you finish fourth in the division.

By crabapple

November 19, 2008 12:29 PM | Link to this

And as the free agents come off the board, and the Braves remain empty-handed, the leverage of San Diego GM Kevin Towers will rise — not significantly, but incrementally.

* Buster Olney *

Funny how people see things so different. Well you know what they say about opinions anyway.

By Lew

November 19, 2008 12:29 PM | Link to this

Evan-Not too sure a quote would matter. Wren ain’t talking and Towers talks like And Idiot most of the time.

By richbrave

November 19, 2008 12:31 PM | Link to this

It seems to me that TOWERS and PEAVY aren’t going to come around to the BRAVES way of thinking unless we show the baseball world how serious we are about signing a major pitching FA talent. DEMPSTER is off the table and the CUBS are out of the PEAVY sweeps as far as I am concerned. But nothing will happen on the west coast front if BURNETT goes to the YANKEES. In poker terms its time to raise or fold. And if we fold forget JAKE PEAVY. This negotiation for BURNETT is absolutely critical for our success over the next three years. Whatever it takes - 25 million a year - whatever. Call me crazy, but that’s how it shapes up to me.

By Efrim

November 19, 2008 12:32 PM | Link to this

I still think Towers has more leverage than you guys think. If he wants, he can wait until Christmas to trade the guy. The Braves want it done sooner than that for obvious reasons. They need to get their offseason started. I hope this trade happens before Thanksgiving, but I have a feeling Towers holds out till the last minute. Maybe on the eve of the Winter meetings.

By David O'Brien

November 19, 2008 12:32 PM | Link to this

DOB…I know you aren’t big on doing this, but just for fun….how about you throw out there what you think the starting position players and starting pitchers will be for the Braves come opening day.Ryan H

You’re right. I’m not big on doing this. Not on Nov. 19.

Check back in a few weeks.

By brent a.

November 19, 2008 12:34 PM | Link to this

Here’s a vote for Daddy’ D’z.

(Just don’t get gas in the neighborhood).

By Braveheart

November 19, 2008 12:38 PM | Link to this

If this guy is still on the team next year, they will have to give him $2 million a month, which would be $1.5 million more than they would have to give Escobar a month.

Well, not that anyone cares, but I screwed that one up and it’s annoying me. They’ll have to give Jake about $1.9 mil a month next season. They’d have to give Escobar about $80 grand a month next season. Over 4 months, that would be $7.6 million to Jake, $320,000 to Escobar. Holding on to Jake and not getting Escobar will cost the owner $7.3 million dollars. The owner has got financial issues. $7.3 million lost is going to tick him off. Does anyone think Towers has the leverage?

I hope I did it right this time…… if not, oh well…..

By Halberstram

November 19, 2008 12:39 PM | Link to this

DOB, with the Cubs now resigning Dempster what affect do you think that will have on the Braves offer to the Padres? It would seem that most of the ‘hand’ (Seinfeld reference) rests with Wren now. Do you think he would play hardball and try to lessen what the Braves are offering now?

Also, not sure if you know but Band of Horses and The Whigs are playing together at the Variety Playhouse on 12/30 & 12/31 for $25 ticket. Pretty good price if you ask me. Not sure if tickets are still available.

By 18 Wheels of Love

November 19, 2008 12:40 PM | Link to this

DOB,

I wonder if SD has tried to get Wren to take back Brian Giles and his 1 year 9m contract. Do you think that is something he would consider if it got us Peavy?

By Lew

November 19, 2008 12:41 PM | Link to this

Wish one of those BBQ joints would send a franchise up here to Vermont. It’s 22 degrees today and some good BBQ would go down exceptionally well. Some Brunswick stew would be good too and also some of those Hush Puppies DOB was talking about. Any chance I could place a mail order?

By Lee In S GA

November 19, 2008 12:41 PM | Link to this

It seems to me that TOWERS and PEAVY aren’t going to come around to the BRAVES way of thinking unless we show the baseball world how serious we are about signing a major pitching FA talent. RichBrave

I think you hit the nail on the head. The longer this goes on there is no doubt in my mind Towers will get the upper hand.

By Braveheart

November 19, 2008 12:42 PM | Link to this

Braveheart-I see the point you’re making re: the salary difference between Peavy and Yunel. However, it’s more of a disparity than that. At a half mil a month, Yunel would be making $3 mil a year. He made $402,000 last year, or about $70,000 a month-not a half mil.

Thanks, Lew. I got in a rush for some reason and forgot to divide the $400 to $500 Yunel will make by 6.

By Lew

November 19, 2008 12:42 PM | Link to this

RichBrave-OK, you’re crazy. Maybe right, but crazy- (owed you that one Dude).

By Raddad

November 19, 2008 12:44 PM | Link to this

Just think about opening day 2009. Jake Peavy vs Cole Hammels. Sorry guys I was day dreaming again.

By Lee In S GA

November 19, 2008 12:47 PM | Link to this

brent a.

that was pretty funny.

I lived off Memorial Drive in the mid 80’s for 3 years. I know a lot has changed since, but I understand where you are coming from.

By Steve from OH

November 19, 2008 12:49 PM | Link to this

Athletics Nation doesn’t think very highly of Towers. It’s an interesting take on the whole deal.

By LT-A blogger

November 19, 2008 12:54 PM | Link to this

Lou Vales- thanks for making that the last comment on the economy vis a vis baseball.

I’d just like to point out that most of the hard working folks on this blog come here to read and talk about baseball- not to think about the economy (if only for a few moments).

By BravesFanInRockies

November 19, 2008 12:55 PM | Link to this

favreiszeus,

I grew up 60 miles west of Winston-Salem and though I prefer Eastern N.C. style cue, Lex-style is fine in its own right.

Perhaps my favorite place in your area is Stamey’s in Greensboro, across the street from the Coliseum. I’ve eaten there countless times over the past 40+ years. Great value — SWWEEET tea, BBQ slaw, chopped or sliced is fine, plus good peach cobbler.

Fine establishment.

In fact, every time I go back to visit I stop at least once. Now I’m hungry and have no way to satisfy the craving. Blast you!!

By cityofdecatur

November 19, 2008 1:00 PM | Link to this

DOB …. Maddy’s BBQ is just average go for the beer and the blues they make the BBQ taste better.

By MattyRoss

November 19, 2008 1:04 PM | Link to this

DOB or anybody else, do you know of any good BBQ places in the Los Angeles area? All this talk is making me want to go visit the family in Carolina…

By BravesFanInRockies

November 19, 2008 1:09 PM | Link to this

Efrim (11:17)

Thanks for linking to that post. I agree entirely. And it cracked me up.

By BravesFanInRockies

November 19, 2008 1:10 PM | Link to this

That A’s blogger also noted how Towers bungled the Brian Giles trade talks.

By McFann O –[zzz]

November 19, 2008 1:12 PM | Link to this

crabapple…

We used to have a crabapple tree in our front yard…the Mocking bird loved it. But the tree got run over by a car in February 2005.

By Marv Kleeman

November 19, 2008 1:18 PM | Link to this

Memo to Frank Wren.

I would only make the Jake Peavy trade under the following circumstances:

1)The Atlanta Braves were on the cusp of winning the World Series in 2009 and were one top of the rotation starting pitcher away from achieving that goal.

2)The Braves had a major league ready replacement for Yunel Escobar waiting in the wings. (Any Elvis Andrus sightings - Oh! Elvis has left the building)

And no Zack Greinke and no Matt Cain for the very same reasons.

Let me present my case:

Exhibit A The San Diego Padres record with Jake Peavy (63-99)

Exhibit B The Kansas City Royals record with Zack Greinke (75-87)

Exhibit C The SanFrancisco Giants record with Matt Cain (72-90)

You see my friends(I’m channeling John McCain); a top of the rotation starter doesn’t mean a thing if the rest of the team is crumbling around you.

We still need a #2 starter.

We still need a clean up hitter; preferably one who can play left field.

The rest of our outfield is filled with question marks (we ranked 30th out of 30 major league teams in outfield production in 2008).

And now we need a replacement shortstop.

And for those who believe we can trade for Jake Peavy and then sign a second starter (A.J. Burnett/Derek Lowe), trade for a power hitting left fielder, and then sign a replacement shortstop (Rafael Furcal); I have only one thing to say.

I’m going to the corner store to purchase the winning lottery ticket. I’ll be back in 5 minutes.

By Shaun

November 19, 2008 1:19 PM | Link to this

*This negotiation for BURNETT is absolutely critical for our success over the next three years. *

Really? So there isn’t any possibility that another ace type pitcher may become available within the next three years? There isn’t any possibility that Hanson and Jurrjens continue their development to become sort of co-aces, Morton becomes a solid number three or four and other young pitchers become solid major league pitchers that fill out the rotation? It all comes down to signing Burnett? Really?

By crabapple

November 19, 2008 1:22 PM | Link to this

We used to have a crabapple tree in our front yard…the Mocking bird loved it. But the tree got run over by a car in February 2005.

McFann

That’s a shame….I suppose.

My parents had one many years ago. I could not tell you what happen to it through the years however.

By flange1

November 19, 2008 1:22 PM | Link to this

Lou Vales,

On your last point, I ask again, SO WHAT? Are you trying to say that the “parity” that we are seeing now will evaporate and only 15 teams will be competitive?

Are you saying that 15 teams will fold entirely?

Again, we all agree that at some point (not yet) MLB will reduce spending on players because revenues may drop.

OK, great.

And your point is? Don’t sign any free agents and come in 4th again?

I’m sorry I just don’t see what you are driving at, and frankly I don’t see how that discussion can actually BE a DISCUSSION.

It is more like a political and economic commentary with no real point from you.

Again, I don’t think it belongs here.

By NickC

November 19, 2008 1:26 PM | Link to this

Ritchie, I’m from London and eerily became Braves fan when I was 9 on a family holiday to Florida in 92!

By Chuck James is solid until the 6th!! (Formerly Steve-O)

November 19, 2008 1:26 PM | Link to this

Couple things…

It’s clearly evident that Kevin Towers would be/is a terrible poker player. Peavy will be a Brave and I like all of you have that voice in my head saying he won’t too but Gammons and DOB know their ish, it will happen because the backup options are almost laughable. Perez, Wolf, Garland?? Mannn…..

Also, as always, DOB you are one funny SOB!

By McFann O –[zzz]

November 19, 2008 1:33 PM | Link to this

Crabapple—

Yeah, it was a shame…and the girl that ran over it never paid us for the new tree!

The new one’s not a crabapple…it’s some kinda cherry tree thingy, but it doesn’t get any berries.

My parents had one many years ago.

That’s cool!

That was a cute little tree…

By DAP

November 19, 2008 1:34 PM | Link to this

mcfann We used to have a crabapple tree in our front yard…the Mocking bird loved it. But the tree got run over by a car in February 2005.

lesson learned. dont play in the street, trees.

By Original Jon

November 19, 2008 1:37 PM | Link to this

Got this from MLBTradeRumors.com and I quote “Graziano has a source who continues to insist the Blue Jays will explore the market for ace Roy Halladay, who has two years and $30MM left on his deal. In that case, he believes the Dodgers are the most likely match. “

Why would he be an immediate match for the Dodgers, why wouldnt we be in on him if he were available???

By Rob

November 19, 2008 1:38 PM | Link to this

DOB, Any truth to the rumors that the Blue Jays are shopping Halladay? He has 2 years 30 million left on his contract. Do you think that this may be one of those “other trade opportunities” Wren alluded to?

By Efrim

November 19, 2008 1:38 PM | Link to this

I think Peavy will be a Brave at some point, but it’s not like the Braves will use their “leverage” to pull Escobar out of the deal. He is a goner. As well as Gorkys, Morton or Reyes and Boyer or a pitching prospect not named Hanson.

By Rob

November 19, 2008 1:42 PM | Link to this

Original Jon, we must have posted about the same time, great minds think alike.

By Braveheart

November 19, 2008 1:46 PM | Link to this

Lou Vales, if you were a lazy investor with a long term retirement vision and just threw your money into a Vanguard like index fund, over a 25 year period for decades now, you have likely received about an average 10% annualized return. The same is true with the MLB free agency market. The MLB FA market has also grown at an average 10% a year rate for over 25 years now. Since the players generally receive 55 to 60% of the revenue earned by the owners ever year, that tells you that the owners are also likely seeing a 10% average raise in revenues and profits a year over a 25 year period, Knowing that, don’t your rants seem like shortsighted irrational hysteria? Just like the stock market, there are ups and there are downs. Maybe we will soon be entering a prolonged 5 to 7 year downturn in MLB revenues, profits and salaries. But the powers that be in MLB are billionaires for a reason. They understand that given a long enough period of time, things will not only even out but they will go right back to enjoying a 10% annualized growth

By Dan

November 19, 2008 1:49 PM | Link to this

I hope the braves land Peavy.

However, while some believe that Towers has overplayed his hand, and will have to settle for less when he eventually trades Jake, I have a differing opinion.

As the free agent bidding wars begin, and some free agents sign, the options for the Braves begin to dwindle. If they fail to sign Lowe or Burnett, I think that the Braves will feel forced to give in to the Padres demands to acquire Peavy.

That being said, if the Braves can sign one of their priority free agents, then they are in the catbird seat to wait until the Padres become desparate.

By Braveheart

November 19, 2008 1:49 PM | Link to this

I think Peavy will be a Brave at some point, but it’s not like the Braves will use their “leverage” to pull Escobar out of the deal. He is a goner. As well as Gorkys, Morton or Reyes and Boyer or a pitching prospect not named Hanson.

You may be right. If you are, then Wren is a fool. When there was nothing but a market of one, the Mets didn’t have to hand over Jose Reyes. The Braves should not have to hand over Yunel Escobar. Towers blew his chance for Escobar. Wren should realize that.

By Corey

November 19, 2008 1:50 PM | Link to this

Sign Burnett or Lowe. Then, Towers will come around. He has completely mismanaged these trade negotiations, and something is going to have to raise his eyebrows before he realizes it.

First of all, he has inaccurately evaluated the market for Peavy. Obviously, with Peavy’s no trade clause, all teams aren’t approved to acquire him. I’ve heard as little as five teams. That has to reduce the expected return. Not in Towers mind, though. Not yet, that is.

And, he has “publicly” pursued trade negotiations which has made Peavy more powerful than management. Its not hard to see why the Braves are against no trade clauses.

He has been disrespectful about the Braves offers and amazingly, announced which teams are in the running. Seriously?

This could have been handled discreetly and effectively, and it wasn’t. I doubt Towers is much of a poker player.

Now, he has opened up the bidding to teams not even on Peavy’s list, rather than quietly engaging the approved teams and avoiding media leaks.

I understand that he wants maximum value. But it looks like he has overplayed his hand. He has tried to bring in too many teams, gave out too much information, and disrespected his best trade partner in the Braves. And, he still hasn’t made a deal.

Once Towers knew the teams Peavy would like to play for, he should have privately approached them with the necessary parameters and a time frame. And, in return, he should have asked Peavy and his agent to keep quiet.

Then, Towers could have negotiated freely, quietly and productively between legitimate and serious suitors, rather than play games for weeks with reporters, Peavy, the Braves and a few AL teams Peavy didn’t want to play for anyway.

We should all appreciate John Schuerholtz and Frank Wren a little more after seeing Tower’s work. If this were Wren, the media would have barely heard a whisper of this before it happened. Information wouldn’t have been leaked, and that negotiations would have been smooth, quick, and respectful. That reflects the very high level of preparation in the Braves front office.

The braves have made, by far, the best offer for Peavy. I know it, Wren knows it, and it’s just a matter of time before Towers knows it.

I look forward to watching you pitch for the good guys in 2009 Jake.

By TennesseePaul

November 19, 2008 1:53 PM | Link to this

Ted: talk about lack of reading comprehension
And so what if they trade one of Yunel, KJ to get another player -you’d then need to add the value of that player to the discussion

As I said: Must be fair with the math. I hope they taught you how to balance the equation. Subtract the same amount from both sides… and while you’re at it, add in the replacement…

OK, so what if they trade one of Yunel/KJ… Then you’re pretty much back to a comparison of the pitchers themselves and in that comparison Peavy is head and shoulders above Burnett.

I understand that you’ve said Peavy is better. But you’ve attempted to temper his skills compared to Burnett and through means which don’t compute.

It could be the Braves trade Yunel to San Diego, sign Furcal and maybe still acquire Burnett. But Burnett alone wouldn’t make this team a winner, which is what Wren has stated he is aiming for, rather it results in wise moves or not.

By Marty

November 19, 2008 1:54 PM | Link to this

There is one thing that is missing from the reasoning of those who believe that Towers will somehow gain the upper hand in these negotiations: The Braves need to make this trade less than the Padres do. Of course, we’ve all heard why the Padres need to make the trade, and we all know that the Braves would love to get a pitcher of Peavy’s caliber. But do the Braves really need to make this trade? Of course not.

As many have surmised, it will be somewhat difficult for the Braves to be extremely competitive in 2009 regardless of whether they acquire Peavy. The only circumstances under which this trade makes sense for the Braves are those which allow them (1) to have Peavy under their control for several years to come (which is a given, in light of his contract status, (2) to have enough money left over to pick up a somewhat expensive hitter, if only for one or two seasons, and (3) to keep their top-notch prospects, several of whom appear very close to breaking into the majors. Making this trade only makes sense for the Braves if it improves their chances of winning in 2010 and beyond, not just if it marginally improves their chances of winning in 2009. This is NOT a Mark Teixeira situation, in which JS was trying to add one more piece in hopes that the team would be competitive right then. It was well understood at the time that Teixeira would likely bolt after 2008, and it was a calculated risk which apparently did not turn out too well for the Braves.

This, too, would be a calculated risk, but a good one, provided that Frank Wren does what he has said he will do and stays behind the line in the sand which he drew a couple of weeks ago. If it takes trading a temperamental SS with one good season under his belt to get 4-5 years of an ace starting pitcher who has already won a Cy Young, so be it.

By 18 Wheels of Love

November 19, 2008 1:54 PM | Link to this

Rob…great minds think alike? More like same bookmark coincidence.

By McFann O –[zzz]

November 19, 2008 1:54 PM | Link to this

DAP lesson learned. dont play in the street, trees.

Haha! No, the tree was in our yard, and the car jumped the curb and ran over the tree. But hey, if it hadn’t been for the tree, the car would have gone into our neighbors’ house!

By Efrim

November 19, 2008 1:54 PM | Link to this

I have a feeling the Blue Jays would want significant prospects back for Roy Halladay. More than the Padres want for Peavy. So since Wren said we aren’t going ot trade those top prospects, I doubt we would be in the running.

By Original Jon

November 19, 2008 1:55 PM | Link to this

You got that right Rob!!

By RC

November 19, 2008 1:56 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Do you think the Braves might be interested in a platoon situation for a power-bat in left? Just thinking through possible free agents it seems like Edmonds could probably be had for fairly cheap, and his power #’s against right handed pitchers in Chicago last year were much better than anyone the Braves currently have (18 HR in 219 AB). Not sure who they would get for the righty side of that platoon, but even Diaz/Edmonds would be a great improvement over last year.

By Jonathon

November 19, 2008 1:58 PM | Link to this

But the Mets were dealing with a guy (Santana) who had only 1 year left on his deal and wanted to new deal immediately. The Mets not only gave up prospects, but also had to pony up big dollars. The Braves might have to give up more in prospects b/c Peavy is locked up long term with a very friendly contract. The situations aren’t necessarily analogous.

By Evan

November 19, 2008 2:00 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Looking to the future of the Braves, say 2 or 3 years down the road, which I think is something we should really focus on, there are some great prospects in the field. 1B: Freeman C: Flowers OF: Heyward, Schafer, Gorkys

Since Chipper isn’t getting any younger, and won’t be a part of the distant future, do you see any possible options for 3B two, three, or four years from now?

By N8

November 19, 2008 2:03 PM | Link to this

Braveheart

“Towers blew his chance for Escobar. Wren should realize that.”

Totally agree, but it won’t go down that way, and here’s why.

Wren made the bold statement that he planned to add two “top of the rotation” starters this off-season.

If this Peavy deal falls through, there is a good chance that he gets NONE.

With every free agent that signs elsewhere (I realize it hasn’t happened yet, but have ZERO confidence that Lowe or Burnett are coming to Atlanta), Towers has the upper hand, becaue Wren backed himself into a corner of publicly stating that the Braves plan to compete and and NEED two top of the rotation starters.

The better angle to play, is that we are perfectly fine with playing out 2009 and waiting for the young crop of guys to come up and gain experience, along with waiting for Hudson to come back in 2010.

But the entire world is aware that Wren is desperate to add two starters to the top of our rotation.

If Wren wanted to turn the screws on Towers, (if we allegedly are the ONLY bidder for Peavy left), he should IMMEDIATELY trade Yunel to anybody offering a starter that would improve the top half of our rotation (Halliday perhaps?), I realize he is not Peavy, but…

Or trade him for Ludwick or another outfielder with power.

THEN turn around and wait Towers out. If we’re gonna have to give up Escobar to get Peavy, and give up other players to replace Escobar, what difference does it matter who goes where on our end?

Ultimately, I’d realy like to see Towers get burned here. Not sure why, but I think he’s been weasely and a little dishonest in some of his public statements, so I’d like to see it bite him in the azz.

By ABravesFan

November 19, 2008 2:08 PM | Link to this

Braveheart “You may be right. If you are, then Wren is a fool. When there was nothing but a market of one, the Mets didn’t have to hand over Jose Reyes. The Braves should not have to hand over Yunel Escobar. Towers blew his chance for Escobar. Wren should realize that.”

Huge difference in that Santana had 1 year left on his deal and Peavy has 4 with an option year. You just dont see cy young starting pitchers singed to modest deals get traded very often. Thats why Wren will have to give more in this deal than Minaya did to get Santana.

By Billy Walsh

November 19, 2008 2:09 PM | Link to this

An idea for a power hitter…..why not trade for KC outfielder Jose Guillen. Yes, he is a nutcase..but he is extremely talented (he dismantled the Yanks in a few games this year) and has one year left on his contract (so you know he would behave and work hard in lieu of free agency). I assume it wouldnt take too much to get him. The royals would love to dump is 12 million dollar salary. 20hr 97 rbi.. the braves could do a lot worse.

By Efrim

November 19, 2008 2:11 PM | Link to this

Braveheart

You may be right. If you are, then Wren is a fool. When there was nothing but a market of one, the Mets didn’t have to hand over Jose Reyes. The Braves should not have to hand over Yunel Escobar. Towers blew his chance for Escobar. Wren should realize that.

Yes, but this is a bit different in the sense that Peavy isn’t coming over and having to negotiate a deal that would make him the highest paid pitcher in the sport. Peavy’s deal is pretty team friendly….I guess. Although I can bet that he’ll want the Braves to pick that option up. 5 years and 81 million.

You might be right in saying Wren is a fool, but I would be absolutely shocked if the Braves got Peavy without giving up Yunel, Shafer, Heyward or Hanson. Since we know Hanson and Heyward aren’t going anywhere, and apparently the Padres are lukewarm on Schafer, then Escobar is going to be in that deal. If Towers didn’t want to make that trade because of the Braves refusal to include Jeff Locke or someone like that, what do you think they are going to say to the removal of Escobar?

By Corey

November 19, 2008 2:13 PM | Link to this

The Blue Jays front office is playing this a lot smarter than our old friends in San Diego. They’ve offered Burnett a contract, that he clearly want accept, but it makes it look like they are not about to cut payroll. Which they are, if they’re thinking of trading Roy. But, they will get more in return for him since they haven’t announced to the world that they’re cutting payroll… like the Padres did.

By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)

November 19, 2008 2:16 PM | Link to this

Steve in La La land, scroll up buddy, scroll up.

Kevin Towers had the upper hand, as in past tense. And at the rate this proposed trade is going, Dave O’Brien is gonna need to pump out another 500 blogs titled, PEAVY, AS THE WORLD TURNS, day 75, day 100, day 125, day 150, day before spring training, NO PEAVY YET ! etc. etc. etc.

By Efrim

November 19, 2008 2:18 PM | Link to this

N8

If Wren wanted to turn the screws on Towers, (if we allegedly are the ONLY bidder for Peavy left), he should IMMEDIATELY trade Yunel to anybody offering a starter that would improve the top half of our rotation (Halliday perhaps?), I realize he is not Peavy, but…

I’d take Roy Halladay over Jake Peavy any day of the week. No stats needed. Just please, for the love of all that is good, you have to see that there is a SIGNIFICANT difference in facing the Red Sox and Yankees than facing the Giants and whoever in the NL West. Not to mention, the AL is still the superior league. I’m sorry, but I had to say that. You may have other reasons why you like Peavy more, but I can guarentee you that most people in baseball take the difference of league into account when evaluating a pitcher.

By Shinnbone

November 19, 2008 2:19 PM | Link to this

Dave, I’m a part-time musician, and have played at Fat Matt’s, Daddy D’z (used to play there almost every week years ago …), and Maddy’s, just to mention BBQ joints. And I can honestly say, Maddy’s’ BBQ is my favorite, by a large margin. The first time I had their rib sandwich, I took it home after playing a gig. Microwaved it (I know! Blasphemy! But had no time to eat at the place. They close early), and it was still awesome. I’d even say it was better than Daddy D’z, which I prefer to Fat Matt’s. I know everyone’s taste bud is different, but a lot of blues musician friends share my view also.

By Erik

November 19, 2008 2:20 PM | Link to this

Marv I do agree with assesment for 2009 but you fail to the benefits of Peavy for 2010-2013.

Yes we have many holes this year and the chances of us filling them all is slim(but still a chance!). However lets say we fill our need for a starting pitcher and a replacement SS. I also think we can get a power hitting LF but if we cant then so be it. Lets then look at 2010…

If we exercise Hudson’s option our rotation would most likely be 1)Peavy 2)Hudson 3)JJ 4)Morton(depending on development) 5)Campillo

and that is assuming that JoJo or another young guy doesn’t develop and earn a spot in that rotation.

That is a dominant rotation.

Also in 2010 Schaffer, Freidman, Flowers, Heyward, will be closer to stepping in and impacting our team.

The key for this off season if we fail to land some of our targets is then making deals that we help us in 2010.

I still think we can get a very good team for 09 and I think Wren does to and until that changes we are goign to be involved with a lot of rumors.

Another thing I have been thinking about is how people keep saying Peavy isn’t worth Yunel and or the net $26 million dollar salary.

Of the teams in the playoffs this past year how many of them had a legit Ace? All of them(LA is questionable but Billingsly had 201 ks and a 3.14 ERA) How many of them had a great SS? 2

By Nate

November 19, 2008 2:24 PM | Link to this

I would rather have Roy Halladay that Peavy any day, but the Jays would want a boat load of prospects just like the Padres. That kind of puts the Brave’s back at square one.

By brooklynbrave

November 19, 2008 2:24 PM | Link to this

if blue jays are listening, any chance we ask about alex rios?

By Marty

November 19, 2008 2:26 PM | Link to this

Burnett is also not the caliber of pitcher that Peavy is, folks.

By Braveheart

November 19, 2008 2:26 PM | Link to this

But the Mets were dealing with a guy (Santana) who had only 1 year left on his deal and wanted to new deal immediately. The Mets not only gave up prospects, but also had to pony up big dollars. The Braves might have to give up more in prospects b/c Peavy is locked up long term with a very friendly contract. The situations aren’t necessarily analogous.

The deal was not done until Santana agreed to a new contract. If no contract had been agreed to, the trade would have been voided and Santana would have gone back to the Twins. So it wasn’t just a 1 year deal. Once the deal was finalized, the Mets actually were assured of more club control over Santana than the Braves would be with Jake. So that removes that only one year rationale.

There’s also the difference in relative salary scale. $80 mil over 5 years is clearly the limit of the Braves comfort in giving out a contract. $140 mil over 6 years is the limit of the Mets comfort in giving out a contract. That has to be heavily taken into consideration as well. From what each team has shown about their comfort level in giving out salaries to arms, an injury to an $80 mil arm for the Braves hurts just as much as an injury to a $140 mil arm for the Mets. Santana is 16% of the Mets budget. Jake would be 16% of the Braves budget.

Santana also lacked a no trade clause that llmited the market and thus discounted his trade market value. His trade market however was limited to the handful of teams that could afford him. Jake’s trade market is limited to the handful of teams he would like to go to. In reality, it’s limited to the Braves because there’s no other team on his list with the goods to get him.

Just like with Santana, there were several suitors early who later vanished, limiting the market to one team. Knowing that, Omar didn’t give ‘em Reyes. Wren has to be just as smart and not give ‘em Escobar.

Wren offered them a fair and just offer. They were fools and turned it down. Next time, the offer must be discounted

By 18 Wheels of Love

November 19, 2008 2:27 PM | Link to this

Speaking of good BBQ…

McRib is back at McDonalds! Mmmmmmm mmmmmmmm!

I’m totally kidding…

By Efrim

November 19, 2008 2:30 PM | Link to this

Nate

Just talking about the difference in pitcher. Halladay is superior to Peavy in my mind. I’d love to see Peavy’s stats if he had to face the Rays, Yankees and Red Sox 16 times like Halladay did.

By N8

November 19, 2008 2:31 PM | Link to this

Efrim

I don’t neccesarily consider Peavy better than Halliday. Haven’t actually put too much thought in to it.

Was just assuming that half (or more) of the blog would tear me apart for even speaking Halliday’s name in the same conversation with Peavy. LOL!

Besides, even in the post of mine that you quoted, I didn’t say Peavy is better, I just said that Halliday is NOT Peavy, meaning that that is where the entire blog is focussed on right now.

I still think that Wren has some under the radar moves up his sleeve. Maybe not.

But I was ready to move on past the Peavy think a week ago.

Also, I thought that it was a forgone conclusion that Peavy would ALREADY be a Brave when free agency opened for bidding, and THAT is why I thought we’d have a shot at Lowe, Dempster or Burnett.

Without him, I truely believe we have no shot at the remaining two that are unsigned. I could be wrong, and will admit so if I have to. But I doubt I will.

By Jim

November 19, 2008 2:32 PM | Link to this

While we are playing “will he, or won’t he” and “shouldhe or shouldn’t he” here, I’d like to take a minute to ask about any activity on two other fronts.

Is anything happening with the Japanese pitcher Tarazawa? Are they Braves still interested and are they still viable?

Do the Braves have any interest in the young Cuban 3rd baseman? Third base is a position that will have to be filled in three or four years time (if not sooner) and we don’t seem to have much depth in the system at that position.

As I see it the system has depth in outfield talent, has some intriguing power hitters such as Flowers, Freeman, and possibly Cody Johnson, and has decent depth in pitching headed by Hanson, Locke, Rohrbaugh, and Teheran. But there aren’t many top level prospects at middle infield and third base. The Cuban kid would change that situation immediately.

By SteveInRaleigh

November 19, 2008 2:33 PM | Link to this

Roy Holladay wins two Cy Young awards pitching against the NL 35 times a year…

By ncscoots

November 19, 2008 2:34 PM | Link to this

If it takes trading a temperamental SS with one good season under his belt

Spin will just not be denied, will it? Justification of Escobar’s inclusion in any Peavy deal seems to be a large bee here, no doubt, and some are murderously intent on portraying the SS as hardly worth keeping, trade or no. If that helps you sleep at night, so be it.

If Escobar is the deal-maker for both Wren and Towers, then he goes. Pretending that it won’t hurt the team, at all, is whistling past the graveyard.

Furcal? Hardly, at $13MM. Jack Wilson? Yikes. One of the Izturis boys? Maybe, but a downgrade on both sides of the ball. Hardy? A reasonable offensive replacement, arb-eligible, decent glove, and probably a zero fit for the Braves’ roster and the Brewers’ needs (though he would be my choice, if it comes to that).

If you think that losing Escobar is worth gaining Peavy, I won’t argue with the concept. There are certainly pros to the thought. But no need to delude yourself that there aren’t cons to that exchange, too.

By mike p

November 19, 2008 2:36 PM | Link to this

We need Peavy..I think it’s that simple. He is an ace we can get for the next 4 years, then we need to take action. So what if all our young guys come up and are ready in 2010? Yes, they will be welcomed, but they will not be aces just yet. Wren has made it a goal for this team to acquire 2 top of the rotation guys. He also sees it necessary to find a power hitting left fielder. As a Braves fan, I trust his abilities to do so. That’s what makes being a Braves fan different than any other team. I have absolute trust in the decisions made from the front office on down. Living in the philly area, phillies fans are such fair weather fans who ridicule consistently, even after a World Series title! Keep working Frank, get our guy! And if not, I still believe we will find ways to improve this team and make noise in 2009.

By Nate

November 19, 2008 2:36 PM | Link to this

Don’t knock the McRib!!

By N8

November 19, 2008 2:36 PM | Link to this

“Jake would be 16% of the Braves budget.”

Then we shouldn’t make the trade. Period.

ONLY the 2002 Angels have won the WS since 1985 while having a player (Vlad), take up as much as 16 percent of their percieved payroll.

Not stating my opinion. It’s a fact. Look it up.

By Efrim

November 19, 2008 2:37 PM | Link to this

Eric (Atlanta): “Yunel Escobar, Gorkys Hernandez and a young arm or two” Is that too much for the Braves to give up?

Jim Callis: (2:33 PM ET ) I’ve said in the past that I don’t think Peavy alone makes the Braves realistic contenders, and he’s not cheap salary-wise either. I don’t mind trading Hernandez with Jordan Schafer on hand. I’d try to hold onto Escobar and give them Brent Lillibridge or Brandon Hicks. The Padres seem determined to trade Peavy, and everyone knows it.

By Marty

November 19, 2008 2:37 PM | Link to this

Efrim

Yes, and all of those factors which you’ve mentioned are accurately depicted by the differences in the two players’ ERAs. Halladay has a career 3.52 ERA, compared to a league average ERA of 4.61. In four of his last five seasons, Peavy’s ERAs have been 2.28, 2.88, 2.54, and 2.85. In those seasons, the league average ERAs were 3.88, 3.85, 4.04, and 3.82. By comparison to the rest of the league, Peavy has simply been a better pitcher, although Halladay has also been excellent.

The other primary considerations in a Peavy vs. Halladay comparison: Halladay will turn 32 next season and has 2 years/$30MM remaining on his contract. Peavy, as we all know, is 27 and is signed through at least 2012.

I’m not questioning that Halladay is a great pitcher, but in terms of who is more valuable in trade right now, it’s clearly Peavy.

By Efrim

November 19, 2008 2:40 PM | Link to this

N8

Sorry I jumped all over your post, I just think far too often people don’t take into account the fact that a guy pitches against lesser competition. I mean, really. Halladay threw 16 of his 33 starts against the Rays, Red Sox and Yankees. Now, the Rays aren’t THAT great of an offense, but 10 starts against the Red Sox and Yanks. That is tough.

By Shawn B

November 19, 2008 2:40 PM | Link to this

I put in a vote for Clinton’s BBQ between Macon and Gray in Middle Georgia. Some of you may have seen in on Dirty Jobs. They have some great pork BBQ.

By mbatl

November 19, 2008 2:42 PM | Link to this

But there aren’t many top level prospects at middle infield and third base

Actually, 3B Eric Campbell is one of our better prospects (his numbers at Myrtle Bch were very similar to Tyler Flowers in ‘08); he’s got all the tools to be a solid ML player. Just that he’s managed to get himself suspended a couple of times for “attitude problems”, or something. He’s still just 22, and if he can develop a little something between the ears, could very well be our 3B of the future.

As to Halladay vs. Peavy, I think Halladay is clearly the better pitcher. But given the 2-year contract, I just don’t see the Braves unloading key players/prospects (Escobar, Hanson, etc) that it would take to get him - if he is even on the market.

By Braveheart

November 19, 2008 2:44 PM | Link to this

Yes, but this is a bit different in the sense that Peavy isn’t coming over and having to negotiate a deal that would make him the highest paid pitcher in the sport. Peavy’s deal is pretty team friendly….I guess.

I don’t think his salary would be any more team friendly in the Atlanta market than Santana’s is in the NYC market. Each contract is worth 16% of the team’s budget in their respective markets. The cost/benefit of each guy in their respective market is the same.

Think about this way: if he had a 6 year contract, Jake would make somewhere between 96 million and 103 million (if you just look at the $81 mil over 5 and the 22 in the last year, you’d have to assume another 22 or more in the sixth year if he had a 6 year contract). So say 103 million. Isn’t that about what the Braves budget is believed to be next season?

Well, Santana agreed to a $138 million contract last season. The Mets overall salary budget last season was $138 million.

So I think in terms of relative salary scale for the markets they were going to, the cost/benefit of Santana’s contract is exactly the same as Jake’s in Atlanta.

I think that needs to be heavily weighed in determining trade value here and what goes over to San Diego. If there was more of a trade market, it would be different. But there is a very limited trade market. And in the limited market now available, 5 years, $80 mil is just as costly and beneficial as $138 mil over 6 years in NYC.

By richbrave

November 19, 2008 2:45 PM | Link to this

LEW:

And since I thought you owed me one also, I went to the internet and old telephone and called two of my three favorite BBQ places in the universe to try and have some savory delectibles delivered to your VERMONT abode.

Alas and alack, like the BRAVES’ west coast adventure, I came up dry. They were in order 1- BUNN’s in WINDSOR, N.C.; 2- RALPH’S in WELDON, N.C.; 3- PARKER’s in WILSON (Brother Dave’s fav. as well). I’m not sure why all three are located in towns beginning with “W”. Maybe something in the water.

Bunn’s was nice enough to post “no deliveries” on their web-site, but I had to call the others to find out the sad news. Maybe this will make me hungry enough to drive the three hour round-trip to pick up some BBQ at RALPH’s and forward, but I’ve done that before and it doesn’t do the place justice. As DAVE said, the ambiance and sides make the total experience exceptional.

Anyway, HAPPY TURKEY DAY. Shoot a bird for me, since I recall your back window observations from last winter. Or if not a hunter, enjoy the view.

By Kieran, Long Island Braves Fan

November 19, 2008 2:46 PM | Link to this

This is from Jim Callis ESPN Chat:

Eric (Atlanta): “Yunel Escobar, Gorkys Hernandez and a young arm or two” Is that too much for the Braves to give up?

Jim Callis: (2:33 PM ET ) I’ve said in the past that I don’t think Peavy alone makes the Braves realistic contenders, and he’s not cheap salary-wise either. I don’t mind trading Hernandez with Jordan Schafer on hand. I’d try to hold onto Escobar and give them Brent Lillibridge or Brandon Hicks. The Padres seem determined to trade Peavy, and everyone knows it.

DOB-

Does this reflect anything you’ve heard from braves camp?? Can the Braves get this deal done without giving up Escobar?

By cricket

November 19, 2008 2:46 PM | Link to this

Ritchie from Scotland

May be you should get into cricket, baseball’s distant cousin :) I’ll get my fix watching India kick England’s azz again (this is getting old already) through the night today.

By Marty

November 19, 2008 2:49 PM | Link to this

nscoots Sorry, but it’s just not that clear that Yunel Escobar will be a superstar, and he certainly isn’t one yet. He slugged a rather poor .401 in 2008, and during his short major-league career, he has posted a rather pedestrian .793 OPS. Sure, his batting average has been nice, but he’s also notreally young enough (26) to reasonably expect him to get a whole lot better. Sure, hitters often peak around 28-29, but it’s difficult to imagine that his power will improve greatly, especially considering that his minor league numbers (.413 SLG, .781 OPS) are right in line with his major-league numbers thus far.

No, it’s most likely that Yunel is a solid defender with a good arm and a good, but not great, hitter. Do we have a replacement right now who is just as good? Not that I know of. Is it likely that we can find one in the next couple of years? Certainly.

By Nate

November 19, 2008 2:49 PM | Link to this

Frank Wren is chatting on MLB.com today isn’t he?

By DHD

November 19, 2008 2:54 PM | Link to this

I have this friend who says that his uncle’s girlfriend is friends with a guy who knows Peavy’s third cousin once removed. She hasn’t heard any news about Peavy coming to Atlanta. So, this is all bull.

By Braveheart

November 19, 2008 2:56 PM | Link to this

Jake would be 16% of the Braves budget. Then we shouldn’t make the trade. Period. ONLY the 2002 Angels have won the WS since 1985 while having a player (Vlad), take up as much as 16 percent of their percieved payroll. Not stating my opinion. It’s a fact. Look it up.

N8 His average salary would be $16 million, which would be about 16% of this year’s budget. HOWEVER, the contract is structured such that his contract should only be worth the following over the next five seasons: 10%, 13%, 13%, 13%, 15% if they have a $105 mil budget this year that grows at a 7.5% rate over the next five seasons.

By Anders

November 19, 2008 2:57 PM | Link to this

Efrim

Now, the Rays aren’t THAT great of an offense, but 10 starts against the Red Sox and Yanks. That is tough.

Which is exactly why I hate interleague play. The Mets play the Yanks 6 times every year regardless of who the rest of the division plays. Best you could realistically hope for was a split while others might be playing the likes of KC or the “Old” Rays.The Yanks have been a top team almost since the inception of interleague. Never an easy mark. Just sayin on a cold day here in NY.

By Marty

November 19, 2008 2:58 PM | Link to this

N8

ONLY the 2002 Angels have won the WS since 1985 while having a player (Vlad), take up as much as 16 percent of their percieved payroll.

Be careful with assumptions which are based solely on simple correlation. An excellent example is the widely held belief that artificial sweeteners cause cancer in humans. There may be additional recent, reliable support for that assumption (although I haven’t seen any), but the original basis for that contention was simply this:

1. The amount of artificial sweeteners consumed by people has increased greatly since the mid-1900s.
2. The incidence of reported cases of cancer in humans as increased greatly during that same time period.

Because of this correlation, it was suggested in a journal of some sort that #1 had caused #2. (Let’s ignore other studies on the subject for now, please, because the simple contention I just stated WAS made without the benefit of additional information.)

The fact that two occurrences coincide or one follows shortly after the other does not mean that one has caused the other; hence the usual meaning attributed to the word “coincidence.” Simple correlations are a favorite tool of those creating junk science and statistics, and that one seems like an excellent example.

By Efrim

November 19, 2008 2:58 PM | Link to this

Marty

Why did you use Halladay’s career ERA but not use Peavy’s career ERA of 3.25?

In five of Halladay’s last seven seasons he has pitched 220 innings or more. He has also faced lineups with a DH in them, as oppose to a pitcher. Jake Peavy has pitched 220 innings once in his entire career. Obviously, Peavy is four years younger, but he would have to throw 220 per year over the next four years to equal Halladay. And again, little different when you aren’t facing the pitcher.

Halladay’s ERA’s since 2001:

01: 3.16

02: 2.93

03: 3.25

04: 4.20

05: 2.41

06: 3.19

07: 3.71

08: 2.78

No doubt, Halladay is four years older. But if I am judging who is the better pitcher, I am taking Halladay.

By richbrave

November 19, 2008 2:59 PM | Link to this

DAVID O’BRIEN:

FYI.While searching for a BBQ vendor to ship some goods to LEW I ran across a book you might find interesting. “BOB GARNER’s GUIDE to NORTH CAROLINA BBQ” $11.01 + shipping. Published in 2002. Don’t know of any newer editions. It’s a little dated, but as you know, the really good places endure forever and from generation to generation.

By Braveheart

November 19, 2008 3:03 PM | Link to this

Sorry, but it’s just not that clear that Yunel Escobar will be a superstar, and he certainly isn’t one yet. He slugged a rather poor .401 in 2008, and duri