Braves

By dack jerrick

November 17, 2008 12:01 PM | Link to this

Been a JS fan all along and he obviously did more things right than wrong over the 14-year rub of excellence but his Jermaine Dye for Michael Tucker and Keith Lockhart was a nasty loser for Atlanta.

By Jared

November 17, 2008 12:02 PM | Link to this

I disagree with nearly every one of your opinions in this blog. I think 35 is NOT the new 30, that Lowe has pitched 200 Innings for 7 straight years and that going forward, that is a harbinger for bad things. I think you are overvaluing Boyer, Hernandez, and Morton (a 4th starter at the big league level). I also think you are overvaluing Dempster, who has had 2 good seasons in the last 7 years and is coming off a contract year. He will soon break down also. As you said yourself, you can’t predict health going forward. He is a career reliever with 2 good years as a SP. Neither Dempster nor Lowe are replacements for Peavy. Peavy is an Ace, the other are just plugs for the rotation during another mediocre year. Yunel is good, but the other prospects you are in love with are unproven trade pieces. Why not use them as such?

By Patrick

November 17, 2008 12:03 PM | Link to this

First?

By Eric from MO

November 17, 2008 12:04 PM | Link to this

I personnally dont want any of them. Lowe is old, Dempster has had one good year, and A.J. Burnett has a bad habbit of pitching good when money is on the line. Guess we will blow again next year.

By Henry

November 17, 2008 12:04 PM | Link to this

Dempster would be the steal of the century at anything less than 10M per year!

By Efrim

November 17, 2008 12:05 PM | Link to this

Thanks for the blog Carroll. Personally, I’d rather have one of Dempster/Lowe/Burnett than to give up Escobar and prospects for Peavy. Not to mention, there were whispers of us having to pick up his 22 million dollar option for 2013 if he accepted the deal. No thanks.

As I have said before, I wonder what Jake Peavy’s stats would look like if he had pitched the last six seasons in the AL East. Probably a lot worse. To top it all off, his elbow and violent delivery are a problem. May not be an issue now, but it probably will give him problems at some point within the next five saeasons. And I am not one of those people who says “It’s okay if he ends up having Tommy John surgery, because we got Jake Peavy”. That is absurd. It is never okay when someone you are paying 81 million dollars over 5 seasons has Tommy John. Not to mention, you gave up Yunel Escobar to get him. I am glad they are moving on.

By Rufio

November 17, 2008 12:06 PM | Link to this

Going after Derek Lowe because he’s never been on the disabled list sounds familiar to the rationale of bringing back Tom Glavine. And we all now how that went.

But I am a fan of Lowes.

Oh, and Kevin Towers is a bum.

By chuckw/deadjournalist

November 17, 2008 12:08 PM | Link to this

For any of you that may have typically listened to XM MLB Home Plate’s morning show with Mark Patrick and Buck Martinez … I confirmed via e-mail with Mark Patrick this morning that he is no longer with Sirius/XM. Friday was his last show. I didn’t ask about his partner’s status.

I know it’s a bit off-topic, but for those of you who listened to the show during your morning commute, it’s a huge loss of some of the most insightful, intelligent and humorous baseball-related commentary on radio.

By 100% Real

November 17, 2008 12:11 PM | Link to this

Maybe if Jermaine Dye wasnt Black the Braves probally would have kept him just ask David Justice.

By Patrick

November 17, 2008 12:13 PM | Link to this

That sucks to hear about Mark Patrick!

Big loss for XM

By DAP

November 17, 2008 12:15 PM | Link to this

dont apologize, carrol. we are happy to hear from you, and to have a clean slate!

i just hope the braves can get at least one of the bigger free agent names. just one of burnett, lowe, dempster, sheets, perez, or even looper, penny, wolf, garcia….

these guys will help us out this year, and solidify us after 2009, when we get hudon back, jurjens is in his prime, hanson is busting out, ect.

if we can land dempster, and then get one of the older FA, like mussina for one year, i think we can hold our own in 2009, and be ready to come on strong in 2010.

and id be good with jermaine dye too. some others on the blog arent to high on him, but i think he fits our needs remarkably well. however, he may not be as expendable now that the whitesox have traded swisher. (we really should have gotten swisher)

By MattyRoss

November 17, 2008 12:22 PM | Link to this

100% Real, you’re right man. That’s definitely why they got rid of him. And David Justice. What? The guys they got back in those trades were black too? Oh, nevermind. I guess your and idiot. Someone tell Gary Sheffield to get off this blog.

By N8

November 17, 2008 12:23 PM | Link to this

Thanks Carroll.

Been waiting to vent.

1st of all. Totally agree with Wren on pulling the plug.

A) Maybe we get Peavy for LESS if he’s still available in a few weeks. Result? WIN for us.

B) Now Wren can focus on improving the team for next year (free agency and other trades), while keeping the top prospects (and Yunel) around for the future.

As for Dye? Don’t let the Braves CURRENT pressing need for a power hitting OF confuse you into thinking they needed him for the past 10 years.

Sure, he’s put up some good numbers. But dude was hurt A LOT. Look at how much flack Chipper has gotten for being unavailable, and he’s possibly the greatest ATLANTA Brave (position players - Smoltz is the pitcher). But the fans would have crucified Dye for being as injured as he’s been.

Just my opinion.

That being said, if Wren thinks he can help the Braves until Heyward is ready, and the Braves don’t have to give up too much, why not bring him in?

By DAP

November 17, 2008 12:24 PM | Link to this

100% real if Jermaine Dye wasnt Black the Braves probally would have kept him just ask David Justice.

thats an absolutley idiotic thing to say, starting with the fact that both dye and justice were traded for black guys, tucker and grissom.

By Loan Shark

November 17, 2008 12:27 PM | Link to this

Older pitchers are good only for contenders. In the twilight of their careers most of these pitchers are going to want to play for current post-season favorites. The Braves are not in this category. These pitchers realized this; even Peavy, I suspect thought this. Too many holes on this team. Just concentrate on the younger to middle age pitchers and spend wisely.

By chuckw/deadjournalist

November 17, 2008 12:28 PM | Link to this

Patrick -

While he didn’t say so, the tone the his e-mail indicated to me that he was let go as part of the purge of XM employees. Again, that is my inference based on the tone of his e-mail as he didn’t state that directly.

And it is a huge loss for for the listeners of the MLB channel.

By Dru

November 17, 2008 12:31 PM | Link to this

100% Real So we traded Dye because he was black? Makes a lot of sense considering we traded him for Michael Tucker (also black)!

By McFann O –[zzz]

November 17, 2008 12:35 PM | Link to this

Thanks for the new Blog, Ms. Rogers!

From the “Official Site”, in Mark Bowman’s Mailbag: Chipper Jones is looking forward to another opportunity to play for a United States team that could also have Mike Gonzalez in its bullpen and McCann as one of its catchers.

No…No, no, please, no!

By flange1

November 17, 2008 12:40 PM | Link to this

Carroll,

Thanks for the new blog!!!

I applaud FW for standing his ground and not getting pushed into a corner by the Padres.

I have a feeling that he has other deals in the works, and I hope one happens fast.

I have a feeling that KJ is the guy who will be part of one of he trades that happens. It makes sense, we do have a backup at second.

And further, should the Braves consider shipping Frenchy out of town?

I think yes.

Frenchy has put the Braves in a tough place with his 2008 season. Another bad season and he loses all of his value + he would have to be replaced on the Braves roster.

If you can trade him now, you take a reduction of value sure, but you also are not counting on a rebound.

KC has said that they wanted to sign Greinke long term, if not they would consider moving him.

KC just announced they could not sign him long term.

Maybe the Braves look at a Frenchy, KJ, JoJo and Boyer package for Greinke and Teahan.

Thoughts?

By Barrett

November 17, 2008 12:43 PM | Link to this

DAP:

Justice was trade for lofton… Grissom was a part of the deal from atlanta’s end. It was Justice and Grissom for Lofton and Embry… But you are right though, that was a stupid comment. This isn’t the falcons blog. We don’t need that in here.

By Gary

November 17, 2008 12:53 PM | Link to this

Yes, I heard someone new on the XM show this morning and was bummed. But XM/Sirus just did their thing last week and are shuffling a lot of lineups with all of their channels. Expect to see Mark Patrick show up this January on the new MLB channel. And I just read that they are splitting Dibble and Kennedy up into two different shows. Sheesh!

On to the Braves…….anyone who says they would rather have Lowe/Burnett/Dempster rather than giving up Yunel for Peavy is showing why they are not GMs. Peavy is an ace, Lowe is 35(and getting older), Burnett and Dempster had one good year in Florida when they were young and after they had arm problems and cashed in for that one good year. Now they had another good year and will again cash in, but hopefully not for the Braves. That would be too risky. I would hope Frank Wren continues to explore the trade market. He knows what is out there more than we do and I would expect to see a surprise trade or two. I do hope to hear in the near future that Roy Halliday from Toronto is available. Guy showed some displeasure towards the end of the year with the Blue Jays direction and rumors were he could ask to be traded. Hasn’t happened yet, but don’t rule it out. Remember the Braves have Jurrjens ready and Tommy Hanson on deck. They need two front line guys(1 ace) to build the rotation for the next few years. Expect that gas bag of a GM Kevin Towers to come back to the bargaining table once he sees that the Cubs will not be able to get another team to fork over the resources to get Peavy and that ole Jake won’t go to New York and play for the Yankees. That is whats happening here. Towers wants to send Peavy to the Yankees so that he can get his hands on Hughes and Kennedy, but Jake won’t go. So his plan is to show that the Cubs and Braves will not give up enough so that he would feel compelled to take a trade that will help the Padres. Kevin Towers will soon find that deals with other clubs will be hard to come by because of the Peavy fiasco. I have all the confidence now in Frank Wren to get the Braves two very good starters and that OF we so desperately need. Remember, the Braves could go after a RF since Francouer can be moved to LF to make way for Heyward when he is ready. Interesting that hasn’t come up or been discussed. Can’t wait until the winter meetings in December.

By matt

November 17, 2008 12:54 PM | Link to this

I’m not too thrilled about any of the FA pitchers out there. They’re all old/injury risks/too expensive. We have Jurrjens, Hanson, Morton. I say try to trade for another younger guy (Greinke, perhaps?) and look to the future.

By DAP

November 17, 2008 12:55 PM | Link to this

barrett thank you for the correction. that was serious brain fart on my part. i know that trade, because it was one of the saddest moment of my life as a child. (justice was my fav. and grissom was great)

By Bryan from Kansas ( Go KU )

November 17, 2008 12:56 PM | Link to this

I must be behind. What happened to Mark Patrick?

By Bubdylan

November 17, 2008 12:57 PM | Link to this

Carroll to the Rescue!! Thanks. I was so lost in the Blogosphere I almost gave up and went outside my house. shivers

By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)

November 17, 2008 12:58 PM | Link to this

I’m with Carroll, Ryan Dempster is probably more of a realistic target. The one thing that struck me about his performance this past season was the consistency. He had one bad start all regular season long, ONE.

But, I have also heard the figure of five years and 75 million from Dempster’s agent. That ain’t gonna happen.

I would offer three years guaranteed with the fourth as an optional contract season.

The one thing that nobody is talking about concerning the Braves is their glaring need for a reliable backup catcher. Pudge Rodriguez is out there, the Braves would be smart to jump the shark.

Bargain basement, anybody?

Ever heard of Charlie Zink? I didn’t think so. He’s a 29 year old RHP. The knuckeballer went 14-6 with an ERA of 2.84 for the Red Sox AAA Pawtucket club in 28 starts. He also won 11 games in 2007. Potential inning eating fifth starter’s don’t get any cheaper than this.

How about Nelson Cruz. The 28 year old outfielder clubbed 44 HR’s with 125 RBI between AAA and the Texas Rangers big league club while batting .337. He’s got a good glove, great arm and just needs the right opportunity.

Scott Thorman is a free agent…..I’m kidding, LOL.

I am concerned about one thing. It’s November 17th and the Braves have worked hard, but as of yet have accomplished exactly zilch.

By Efrim

November 17, 2008 12:58 PM | Link to this

Flange1

I have a feeling that KJ is the guy who will be part of one of he trades that happens. It makes sense, we do have a backup at second.

But wouldn’t it be better if we kept Kelly Johnson? I like Prado more as a backup. As much as I like prospects, I’d rather trade them than to deal Kelly Johnson. He is vastly underrated.

By Adam

November 17, 2008 12:59 PM | Link to this

flange1,

I have suggested the Greinke trade a few times. I think he would be a perfect piece to the puzzle. He has great stuff, knows how to pitch and is young. If the Braves can get him to agree to sign long term I would rather have him then Peavy. The question is what would be the price from KC? KJ and Frenchy makes sense but would that be enough?

By THE BEAR

November 17, 2008 1:01 PM | Link to this

100% Real, why don’t you knock off the racial crap? Only about 10% of major league players are black. Appears to me blacks have chosen basketball and football as their sports of choice. They don’t seem to like hockey or socker very much either. Do you make preposterous charges against those sports too?

And finally, haven’t you noticed, America now has a black president although only about 14% of the voters are black. Wonder how that happened.

By Raddad

November 17, 2008 1:04 PM | Link to this

Let the peavy thing go he will not come to atlanta as long as Yunel is a part of the trade. That ends all trade talk. Think about this in a couple of weeks there will not be any FA shortstops on the market. No one to replace Yunel. All trades would have been made????

By Jim

November 17, 2008 1:05 PM | Link to this

The notion of adding players A, B, C to our current team (minus any players we trade for any or all of the above) will make us a strong contender in 2009 completely ignores any changes (improvements) the Phillies and Mets are likely to make this winter. I don’t think we are a Derek Lowe, A. J Burnett, or Ryan Dempster away from contending with the present lineup or a Ludwig or Peavy away minus KJ and/or Yunel.

I also don’t see how Charlie Morton is written off as never being anything more than a 5th starter, if that, based upon 1/2 season in which he had physical issues for some part of it. He may never be more than that, but it can’t be determined on his small body of work in Atlanta last season.

Tommy Hanson may become a dominant number 1 starter, but it is unlikely he will arrive as that dominant pitcher in his first full season. He (like Morton) will need a little time to develop at the major league level. Therefore I am not unhappy that the Peavy trade was not made. I am willing to wait one or two more years for these players to develop and the team to be true contenders for a WS title, not just another in-and-out trip to the playoffs. I think we need to build around our young core (McCann, Jair, Yunel, KJ, Hanson, JF?) and hopefully add significant talent in the next 2 years (Heyward, Schafer/Gorkys, Flowers, Kimbrel) to have a team ready to contend with the addition of one or two free agents like in 1991 or the Rays in 2008 or the Marlins in 2002.

By Efrim

November 17, 2008 1:05 PM | Link to this

From Mark Bowman’s mailbag:

Consequently, the Braves were forced to wait and possibly miss other opportunities to improve their team. They had some interest in Nick Swisher and might have been able to land him before the Yankees did last week. But to get Swisher, who could have filled their need for a left fielder, Atlanta would have likely had to trade some of the players it was offering to San Diego.

The Yankees got him for Wilson Betemit(utility infielder), Jeff Marquez(potential back end starter) and Jhonney Nunez(middle relief prospect). That equals to Martin Prado, Todd Redmond and Cory Gearrin. Kenny Williams broke on the hype of Jeff Marquez as a middle of the rotation starter, but I always hear scouts/analysts knocking his potential. Even so, Swisher should of costed more.

By mbatl

November 17, 2008 1:06 PM | Link to this

If the Braves can get him [Greinke] to agree to sign long term I would rather have him then Peavy.

Adam, from what I’ve read, the whole ‘thing’ with Greinke is that he’s perfectly comfortable going year-to-year until he’s a free agent in 2011. He’s not gonna sign longterm just because he’s traded to Atlanta.

So, we’d likely have him for 2 years, and then receive 2 draft picks when he leaves (unless we bid top-market for him in ‘11). That’s okay with me, but it does temper how much we should give up for him.

By chuckw/deadjournalist

November 17, 2008 1:08 PM | Link to this

Bryan from Kansas ( Go KU ) -

He is no longer with XM. The chain only started in this blog, so you can read my initial posts about six or seven posts from the top.

By Eric from MO

November 17, 2008 1:10 PM | Link to this

Well I think it is safe to say for the rest of this blog 100%Real will own the dumbest statement.

Flange while I may agree with you, you said it yourself Francouer has lost all his value. Which means we wont be able to trade him for anything. I think the Braves just have to keep him and hope he makes adjustments and turns it around. Lets not forget he had a bad 2006 and had a much improved 2007. Lets hope he does that again and doesnt turn into an Andrew.

By Iron Labrum

November 17, 2008 1:13 PM | Link to this

CR…thanks a bunch for pinch hitting…much appreciated…what a weekend. I kind of accept the premise that Peavy really wants to go to the Cubs and Towers is trying to help out his buddy (Axlerod). For as aggravated as I am at how Towers managed the deal….he’s basically at the helm of a sinking ship. What’s to stop him from holding out a little while to save face, then making a cake trade to put Peavy where he where he wants to go and finally blaming the deal on his circumstances (ownership, economy, market)?

It doesn’t seem too conspiracy-theory(ish) if you buy into the Mrs. Peavy barber shop rumors or even what their saying in the SD tribune…..

Anyway..DOB, I hope you see how much you’re needed around here. A couple of days (especially during hot stove time) without you and the regulars is too much (a blog crash is almost as bad as an economic one). It turns into the episode of South Park where all he parents are arrested for child abuse. I half expected a chorus of Carosel to break out….or at the very least a guy clanking some bottles together singing “Warriors, come out and playeeay..”

By Eric from MO

November 17, 2008 1:14 PM | Link to this

Why is that no one complains about there not being enough white players in basketball or football but you hear all the time there isnt enough black players in baseball. About 10% of players are black, well lets see about 10% of the population is black. Seems about the right percentage to me. Especailly when you consider the number of foreign players in baseball.

By Nate

November 17, 2008 1:22 PM | Link to this

I would love to see the Braves spend a ton of money and make some big trades so they can compete in the division next year.

But if you look at this team closely and compare it to the other contending teams in the national league, it becomes apparent just how much ground the Braves need to make up. Can Wren really add 50 HR to the outfield next season and add two front end starters in one off season without opening up others holes?

Not too mention Frenchy is a complete question mark. The Braves really can’t be too sure what to expect from Kotchman for that matter. Chipper will likely miss extended periods of time, and the Braves don’t really have a bench bench player that should be starting for 50 games at 3B. Not too mention the fact that the Braves don’t have a true lead-off hitter, and they still have to find a cleanup hitter.

That’s a lot of holes. Any single one of those things may not be that big a deal, but taken together, they spell trouble.

Seems to me like really the best course of action would be to make a few moves to keep the fans engaged, but to really target 2010 and beyond for a few runs at a World Series.

Man you will disagree and many of you really believe Wren can put together a contending caliber team in one off season, but as a fan I would rather win a World Series once than “contend” every year and lose in the playoffs.

By chuckw/deadjournalist

November 17, 2008 1:22 PM | Link to this

Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed) -

I mentioned the back-up catcher issue a few blogs back. There are a number of options available, but I don’t think Pudge is one. With McCann catching five time a week (at least) that doesn’t leave much playing time. And while Pudge isn’t a full-time starter anymore, I’m sure there is someone that will be willing to play him three times a week.

A more likely signing will be someone out of the Mike Redmond/Henry Blanco mold. Someone that can play once a week and maybe, maybe pinch-hit once every two weeks.

By Brett

November 17, 2008 1:26 PM | Link to this

100% real is 100% tool bag

By Mark Biles

November 17, 2008 1:26 PM | Link to this

Glad we passed on Peavy. We shouldn’t have to mortgage the future for someone we probably can’t afford in 3 or 4 more years.

Sign Dempster or Lowe and put them in the rotation with Smoltz, Morton, Jurrgens, and Campillo and give it a whirl. Hudson will be back in September for the playoff run, you know.

We do need Jermaine Dye back. Without mortgaging the whole team to get Peavy, we should be able to afford Dye for our LF power deficiency.

By Efrim

November 17, 2008 1:31 PM | Link to this

Interesting article about the young catchers ready to break through into the majors. Tyler Flowers is discussed:

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=ArLna4NqYSI3EsOLFSEN42ARvLYF?slug=ge-catcher111608&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

By BravesFanInRockies

November 17, 2008 1:32 PM | Link to this

Thanks for reviving the blog and feeding the denizens, Carroll.

About 35 being the new 30 —

Lowe was essentially a full-time reliever for three seasons (99-01), so he’s not endured the wear and tear of others his age who’ve done nothing but start.

He should have a lot more miles on the clock and I agree he’d be a low-risk, high-reward guy.

By Barrett

November 17, 2008 1:38 PM | Link to this

DAP I know what you mean. I really didn’t like Lofton. I remember I was a little kid when he was in a all star game with the Indians and didn’t seem to be a good guy. Kind of cocky. That makes a big impression when a 10 year old kid watches the game…

By LivininAL

November 17, 2008 1:40 PM | Link to this

Carroll thanks for the new start! Challenging to read 1000 comments before adding to the flood. Like 99% of you,I would haved loved to get Peavy no doubt about it, but Im glad we did not trade the remuda for one stud. I dont think the acqusition of one pitcher will propell us to the World Series next year. But developing Hanson, Morton, Jurrgens, and ok give Jo-Jo one more season, sets us up for the following year.Let’s get competitive again, take time to answer questions about the value of Frenchie, KJ etc.,develop and a winning attitude again.

By Norman Cochran

November 17, 2008 1:41 PM | Link to this

That is all we need in this situation is for someone to throw out the racial card. I personally am sick and tired of hearing that what ever problem exist is due to racial motivation. Get a life, man!

By Tomas

November 17, 2008 1:44 PM | Link to this

Hi Carrol, welcome back, thanks for the blog.

I agree with you on Dempster, he is a better fit for the Braves for a three reasons: First off he is 32 years old, and second he won’t make more than 15 million per year unlike Derek Lowe, and AJ Burnett, and last, he didn’t have an arm problem all year, and doesn’t have a huge history of injuries.

I don’t like Derek Lowe, because of his age, and price. I mean 16 million per year for a 36 yr old dude, no way. He is good but not that good. Look at his home/road splits, at home pitching friendly dodger stadium, he had a 2.30ERA, and on the road a 4.30ERA. And also consider most of his starts were against nl west teams(who’s lack of hitting is big).

I really like Aj Burnett, he is a horse, and will be 32. He is an Ace. Consider this, since 2004 he has made 134 starts with no big injuries(he had TJ in 2003), Ben Sheets has made 94 since that time. Plus the fact he didn’t have any arm problems this year. The problem is he wants 18million per year. By the way Peavy has made 150 starts since 2004.

I think we should sign either Aj Burnett or Ryan Dempster, and trade for Gil Meche, Zack Greinke, or Jake Peavy. Also trade for Jermaine Dye.

By McFann O –[zzz]

November 17, 2008 1:50 PM | Link to this

BTW—Ms. Rogers, I really enjoyed your article last week! Thanks!

BFIR Thanks for reviving the blog and feeding the denizens, Carroll.

Haha! That’s a good way to put it!

By richbrave

November 17, 2008 1:50 PM | Link to this

CARROLL:

Welcome back. Who was in the DYE trade with KC.? Didn’t we get someone good for him.? He’s had a great career almost no one’s heard of. How many ML seasons now.?

By katz

November 17, 2008 1:53 PM | Link to this

DAP I know what you mean. I really didn’t like Lofton. I remember I was a little kid when he was in a all star game with the Indians and didn’t seem to be a good guy. Kind of cocky. That makes a big impression when a 10 year old kid watches the game

Really? At 10 years old you didn’t like his cockiness? Whatever, dude. Your daddy told you I don’t like that no good uppity sunnuvagun and you ain’t gonna like him either sonny. To which you said right on, paw. When you say jump, paw, I say how high….

You would have liked him if you were truly watching with the innocent eyes of a 10 year old. But you weren’t. Unfortunately, you only saw what the ignorant 45 year old sitting next to you told you to see

By crap-wheelie

November 17, 2008 1:53 PM | Link to this

Nate:

Two questions:

What makes you think we would be anymore competitive against the Mets and Phillies in the next decade? We know the Mets will sign every free agent they want. We know Philly will keep the core of its team in place and sign free agents.

What will keep Braves fans engaged when we know our team has no desire to win?

I would bet that we don’t sign a single ace pitcher all offseason. I believe we will go into next season with our worst rotation since 1987. I also believe that we will do nothing to improve our offense. I think Liberty will cut our budget rather than add $40 million of payroll.

Not being on TBS, not having a nationwide presence, not being locally owned is going to turn us into the “Atlanta Royals.”

Bank on it.

By BravesFanInRockies

November 17, 2008 1:53 PM | Link to this

I think Zack Greinke is destined become the Carl Crawford of the 2008-09 Braves/MIB/BBQ off-season blog.

By Eric from MO

November 17, 2008 1:54 PM | Link to this

Sorry Tomas but have to disagree with on Burnett. He is not an Ace. He is 10 games over .500 and most people will tell you he just pitches good in contract years.

By rotty

November 17, 2008 1:54 PM | Link to this

Jared Your post early in this new blog was spot on.

No offense but signing Dempster b/c he was nice to you in a club house and has been good for 2 out of 7 years seems like a risky and ill advised move.

Lowe is a 3/3A guy given his mileage and age - at best. The Braves need TOR guys who can lead this rotation for years not make a last gasp attempt at a playoff run in 09.

If the Braves didn’t have so many holes on the team and a lack of offensive firepower then adding a Lowe for 2-3yrs would be ok.

The Braves need guys who are in their prime 26-31 not guy in their mid 30s.

Wren will need to find a way to get Peavy and Burnett or Peavy & Greinke if he is serious about building a championship rotation for the long haul.

The latter will be too hard on the farm system so Peavy & Burnett is more likely.

I do fear however they will settle for Dempster and a trade for Arroyo or Harang as a fall back.

By webhead

November 17, 2008 1:54 PM | Link to this

I would rather see Morton and Hanson in the Majors this year instead of the minors. Let’s start over like in 1990 and bring up all our kids let them grow up here. In 3 years we’ll be back on top.

By DAP

November 17, 2008 1:55 PM | Link to this

tomas i would be carefull calling burnett a horse. i count only 112 starts since 2004. thats an average of 28 starts per. 2006 he only made 21 starts and pitched 135 innings, and in 2007 he made 25 starts and pitched 165 innings.

i wouldnt mind having burnett, he is pretty good, but he has had alot of trouble in the past staying healthy, making all his starts, and pitching the needed innings. if he makes 32 starts, he CAN be an ace, but even this year, 2008, he had an ERA over 4. i would be careful what i spent on burnett.

By Efrim

November 17, 2008 1:56 PM | Link to this

I have to imagine Jermaine Dye would cost a lot. I don’t think it is a salary dump for the White Sox. I honestly think they would ask for Kelly Johnson back. That’s a deal we can’t make.

Not sure why they would want trade him in the first place. Right now they are slated to start Chris Getz at 2B, Josh Fields at 3B and Bryan Anderson in CF. If you trade Dye, then you will be starting Dewayne Wise on RF, unless of course you receive a player ready to step in and play another position. Which Kelly Johnson would be.

By katz

November 17, 2008 1:57 PM | Link to this

That is all we need in this situation is for someone to throw out the racial card. I personally am sick and tired of hearing that what ever problem exist is due to racial motivation. Get a life, man!

With a name like Norman Cochran, of course, you can’t understand why anyone uses the race card. How could you understand it? Your name is Norman Cochran. All of your problems in life begin and end with having a name that the rest of the country stopped naming their kids in 1922.

By Jim

November 17, 2008 1:58 PM | Link to this

How important is it for a team to get a lot of (50+) HRs from its outfield? Consider the 2008 Rays and the people that played the OF for them (may include DH and PH appearances) B J Upton 9

C Crawford 8

G Gross 13

J Gomes 8

R Baldelli 4

J Ruggiano 2

F Perez 3

B. Zobrist 12 (listed as a SS)

Total = 59 + 20 from E Hinske = 79 from 9 different players not all playing the majority of the games in the OF. (about 8.5 per player in a DH league).

By Eric from MO

November 17, 2008 1:58 PM | Link to this

I got a question and anyone who wants to give their opinion go ahead. If Flowers is suppose to be Major League ready, why are we not shopping him. I know our minor leagues are not good at the catching postion but we have plenty of positions we are not good at the major league level. Flowers will never be made teh backup and Flowers will never get an opportunity as a starter as long as McCann is there and if by chance he gets hurt it wont matter who is doing our catching if we have holes at other positions because we will be out of contention for the fourth straight year. We are not a good enough of team to have two good catchers.

By Erik

November 17, 2008 1:59 PM | Link to this

The idea of KJ, Frenchy and JoJo as a package for Grienke is crazy. A given when trading an ace is that you will be compensated with some type of pitching replacement. Possibly a KJ, Locke, Marek deal could get it done.

By Josh P.

November 17, 2008 2:02 PM | Link to this

First off, 100% Real , take your racist posts somewhere else. I don’t post here much but I read often, and I know that there is no place for that here.

If Wren is considering Burnett I don’t see why he wouldn’t at least kick the tires on Sheets. They’re both injury prone but Sheets is going to come cheaper.

I hope the team signs Tazawa and looks at Kenshin Kawakami. Importing players from Japan has proven to be a very viable way to imprrove a ballclub and neither of these pitchers will require a posting fee.

By DAP

November 17, 2008 2:05 PM | Link to this

I do fear however they will settle for Dempster and a trade for Arroyo or Harang as a fall back.

this would be great, i think. especially harang.

By flange1

November 17, 2008 2:06 PM | Link to this

Efrim,

I would like to keep KJ as well, but I think that the Braves will be forced to trade either existing roster players, high level prospects (ones we keep hearing are NOT going to be traded) or lower level prospects.

I don’t think we have enough of the lower level stuff to get anything of consequence, so we will have to throw in a current roster player to make a deal happen.

The reason I say KJ might be the guy to go, is that there is a replacement close (lower level guy but MLB ready).

I also don’t think the Braves can go into 2009 HOPING that KJ and Frenchy perform at expected levels.

The Braves got seriously burned in 2008 with HOPING KJ and Frenchy would perform, HOPING that Smoltz and Glavine could pitch, and HOPING that Hampton would return.

By Eric from MO

November 17, 2008 2:06 PM | Link to this

Katz I agree with your 1:53 post. I was thinking the same thing. Most 10 year olds prefer the cocky players. That is why players like Allen Iverson and Lebron James have always been popular (I know they play basketball) and not Tim Duncan.

By Efrim

November 17, 2008 2:06 PM | Link to this

Eric from MO

I think the time to trade Flowers is after the 2009 season. He will have played a full season in Double A at that point. I have no worries about his stock dropping and I don’t think the Braves do either. He could be a great chip next offseason.

By Branch Rickey

November 17, 2008 2:16 PM | Link to this

PUT FLOWERS BEHIND THE PLATE; AND MCCANN ON FIRST !

By siskel

November 17, 2008 2:16 PM | Link to this

The Braves won’t ever be a top tier team if they keep going after second tier players. I for one am dissapointed that we are debating Lowe and Dempster and not C.C. and Manny. Just get me through the next couple of years until Arthur can buy the Braves or Ted gets bored (PLEASE!). I’m just sick of having to talk about the Braves not being in on one guy or another because we refuse to pay them. Everybody who comes to Atlanta has taken less money to come here and now we find ourselves having to pay more to get these guys because we stink! I know Tampa, and Florida won with homegrown guys and low payrolls, but the truly dominant teams, the Braves and Yanks of the 90’s, the Red Sox now, have spent the money and mixed in their young talent. It’s ridiculous that we just accept Kotchman for Tex because we know we are going to lose him because were just not gonna pay him. What are the Braves doing with the 7 dollars I spend on each beer, or the 10 dollar jack n’ cokes i’m getting at the 755 club? SPEND THE MONEY, STOP BEING A SECOND RATE FRANCHISE, BRING BACK TED!

By Carroll Rogers

November 17, 2008 2:16 PM | Link to this

I have a feeling 100% real has 100% left the building, so i have an idea: let’s see if we can not warrant that with more response. just a thought.

Ruffo, I had the same thought cross my mind about Glavine when I was writing it (never been on the DL), that the words sounded kinda familiar. tho i gotta think things change in a big way when you cross that 40 threshold…..i’m not quite there yet, but that’s what i hear!

i think the debate is interesting, the question over whether the Braves really are three players away from contending, or if it’s even possible to acquire three high caliber players without gutting the system.

By DAP

November 17, 2008 2:18 PM | Link to this

katz not that you have any way of really knowing what youre talking about, but what if it was because of his dad that barret didnt like cocky lofton? whats wrong with that?

By Eric from MO

November 17, 2008 2:19 PM | Link to this

Efrim thanks for your input. I dont know if I agree on keeping him that long but I guess I see that point.

By Efrim

November 17, 2008 2:20 PM | Link to this

Flange1

I also don’t think the Braves can go into 2009 HOPING that KJ and Frenchy perform at expected levels.

I get what you’re saying but Johnson ended up with a .287/.349/.446 for a second baseman. That ain’t too bad man. Francouer is the one who needs to pick it up. I understand that we need to deal value to get value, but you’re talking to a guy that hates the idea of Martin Prado starting at 2nd base next season.

We have four needs. 2 starting pitchers, 1 OF and 1 LH relief pitcher. I’d like to fill 3 through free agency and 1 through trade. BTW, that is wishful thinking on my part as I can’t see the Braves doing that. They’ll probably end up only signing 1 free agent and filling the other needs through trade. The Braves don’t like any of the free agent OF options(I don’t really either), it makes sense to deal for the OF. I just have no idea who to target.

By N8

November 17, 2008 2:20 PM | Link to this

katz

Your 1:53 post might have some validity to it, if EVERY kid watched baseball with their dad.

I have opinions of who I liked as a kid, and who I didn’t. My dad played catch with me nightly after work, but was NEVER a sports fan (watching it on TV), so any opinion I formed of who I liked or disliked at age 10 was that of my own.

Can’t even blame the big media, since ESPN was in it’s infancy at that point.

Besides. What 10 year old kid takes on his dad’s thought process? My son (like me) is also a Braves fan. He’s 10. I think Jeff Francoeur is NEVER gonna amount to the hype he received when first coming up.

Due to my opinion and analyzation (as a fan), I don’t think he has the approach to recover from his (ahem)….slump….. last year.

My 10 year old STILL thinks he’s the greatest thing since sliced bread. If you’re theory held true, he’d be telling all of his friends how worthless Jeff is, right?

By Spending Like Drunken Sailors

November 17, 2008 2:21 PM | Link to this

No to CC. No to Lowe. No to Burnett. No to Dempster. And a big NO to Peavy!

CC is too expensive and the others want too many years. Burnett has an injury and head history. Dempster doesn’t have enough above average performance years to insure last year wasn’t an anomoly. Lowe is 36 and wants a contract to take him through 40.

The San Diego paper said that Peavy was in Puerto Rico with friends and basically told them that he didn’t want to go to Atlanta. With the Towers-Axelrod relationship, there’s a good possibility that Towers knew that as well and that Atlanta was just played as a pawn to drive Peavy’s value up with other teams. Towers keeps saying the Cubs would have to involve a third team to make the deal happen. In essence it seems that Towers WANTS the Cubs to involve a third team so Peavy can be dealt where he has stated he wants to go. The Cubs. Doesn’t matter what team Peavy’s agent says he approved to be traded, (the Braves) he can kill the deal if he doesn’t want the trade. Peavy had some arm troubles last year and that might even be the start of something the Braves or whoever might have to start dealing with. It also seems Peavy is going to demand even more incentives than his current contract guarantees to approve a trade. (Like the last option year guarantee over 20 mil!) No thanks!

I’m not against trading Escobar or KJ for pitching help so that’s not why I say don’t trade for Peavy. In fact, I would be willing to send either of those guys on their merry way for a good, young starter who is on the cusp of becoming a force to contend with. I just don’t like the idea of locking into a long term, expensive, contract (Burnett, Dempster, Lowe or even Peavy) that would handcuff the Braves should any of those guys come up lame. When you actually think about it, of the 4 pitchers mentioned above, only CC and Peavy should be commanding the big bucks. Lowe should be one notch below and Dempster and Burnett should be below that. Someone is going to overpay for each of these pitchers.

By Bubdylan

November 17, 2008 2:27 PM | Link to this

Katz It’s not impossible for a 10-year-old to dislike arrogance on fairly innocent terms.

By McFann O –[zzz]

November 17, 2008 2:31 PM | Link to this

Eric—

I agree with you on Flowers (though like Efrim says, next year might be a better time to trade him).

I was thinking—and people, feel free to call me out if I’m wrong again—but if Flowers is so dang good, isn’t it kinda unfair for him to stay with the Braves since they already have a staring catcher? I know Flowers still needs more time in the minors, but wouldn’t staying here hold him back?

By Eric from MO

November 17, 2008 2:32 PM | Link to this

DAP there isnt anything wrong with his Dad for telling his son not to like him because he is cocky. Actually it is great, more parents need to do the same. Katz point and mine too, is that is not really a 10 year old’s opinion. It is his fathers. If you take strictly a 10 year old’s opinion.

By Nocturnal owl (N Nine)

November 17, 2008 2:34 PM | Link to this

Thanks for the new blog Carroll.

I agree with some that A.J. Burnett is not a true ace. He’s got electric stuff in that lame arm that falls off after a quick 2 month rental.

Forget the guy, why bid for a loser…oh sorry 10 games over .500

By McFann O –[zzz]

November 17, 2008 2:34 PM | Link to this

Branch Rickey—

That was Blogs ago, man. We’re not going over that again…Pu-leez…

By ppaddy123

November 17, 2008 2:35 PM | Link to this

By katz Really? At 10 years old you didn’t like his cockiness? Whatever, dude. Your daddy told you I don’t like that no good uppity sunnuvagun and you ain’t gonna like him either sonny. To which you said right on, paw. When you say jump, paw, I say how high….

You would have liked him if you were truly watching with the innocent eyes of a 10 year old. But you weren’t. Unfortunately, you only saw what the ignorant 45 year old sitting next to you told you to see

So his daddy didn’t like him……..neither did his team mates, as I recall. But hey, that’s the way the Braves have always been. Players that rock the boat (black or white) don’t stick around very long. That’s probably the reason Escobar is being shopped this off season. He’s cocky. Personally, I wish we had a few more guys just like him.

By flange1

November 17, 2008 2:37 PM | Link to this

EFRIM,

I agree with you on KJ and on Prado. Frenchy does need to step it up or the team will not contend in 2009.

I would love to fill the holes from FA, but like you I don’t think that will happen.

Maybe 1 FA starting pitcher and 1 FA relief pitcher but the other players will come through trades….

By Loan Shark

November 17, 2008 2:39 PM | Link to this

The Braves don’t like any of the free agent OF options(I don’t really either), it makes sense to deal for the OF. I just have no idea who to target.

Like Bowman stated above the Braves lost out on Swisher, who would have helped this team, screwing around with Towers and company about Peavy. That was a golden opportunity w/o selling the farm. Maybe lighting can strike again with someone.

This team has to rely on trades like that these days.

By iron Labrum

November 17, 2008 2:39 PM | Link to this

A few thoughts….first, Burnett opted out of a contract. There’s really only one reason to do that. Ask JD Drew. We’re definitely bidding against bigger markets for the 3 names that we’re tossing around the most…Burnett/Dempster/Lowe…no small obstacle…and it’s all too noticeable that we may have lost the luster that once upon a time would lure a Maddux type to us over the $$$.

Greinke (not even sure he could be had) has had his fair share of trouble between the ears and is not the dominant style that I think we’re all coveting to ride in the post season. Wren’s got a tough job and I hope he can make some magic, because unless Towers comes crawling back, it’s not inconceivable that we could miss out on starter upgrades altogether (no Randy Wolf please).

Finally….I’m kind of surprised that there hasn’t been more Brad Penny talk on the blog. Almost every other scenario has be fleshed out.

By N8

November 17, 2008 2:41 PM | Link to this

Bubdylan

“Katz It’s not impossible for a 10-year-old to dislike arrogance on fairly innocent terms.”

Agree. I think any kid that has played sports (or even a musical instrument), and has encountered other kids in their area that are arrogant in nature regarding their abilities, would tend to NOT like the arrogant athletes.

That being said, there is a certain level of arrogance that EVERY athlete and entertainer, NEED to get to the top.

Some just have zero shame in showing that arrogance on a regular basis.

You think that Greg Maddux doesn’t KNOW that he’s one of the bets all time? How about Larry Bird? Michael Jordan was a classic trash talker.

Arrogance and confidence go hand in hand. As for how a person carries themselves publicly, THAT is certainly up for debate.

Allen Iverson isn’t much different (on the basketball court) than a guy like Jordan. But off the court, he’s known as a thug and a malcontent.

You think Nike would have had Jordan as their poster-boy, if he was required to cover up his tattoos? Before there was a dress-code for the NBA players, guys like Jordan STILL carried themselves in a professional way off the court.

Image is everything (not to me). But some guys WANT to have the bad-azz image.

By Efrim

November 17, 2008 2:43 PM | Link to this

Carroll

i think the debate is interesting, the question over whether the Braves really are three players away from contending, or if it’s even possible to acquire three high caliber players without gutting the system.

It’s possible. But you need to get lucky. At least that is what I think. It’s great to say you want two starters out of an elite group(Dempster, Lowe, Burnett, Peavy), and a corner outfielder capable of hitting clean-up, but that just isn’t easy to accomplish if you aren’t willing to trade some top prospects. And it seems as though the Braves don’t want to trade Heyward, Hanson, and Teheran. And won’t trade Freeman, Flowers, Hernandez, Rohrbough, Locke unless the right deal comes along.

It’s kind of what the Dodgers do. They spend a lot of money on free agents….too much. Develop through the farm and fill the holes through free agency. So, the Braves have to be willing to outbid teams on guys like Burnett.

By ncscoots

November 17, 2008 2:43 PM | Link to this

I think Zack Greinke is destined become the Carl Crawford of the 2008-09 Braves/MIB/BBQ off-season blog.

gods save us all, then, LOL.

flange, I don’t know that “hoping” is all that correct re Johnson and Francoeur. Seems to me the Braves counted on ALL their young players fulfilling their potential, but that’s different from “hoping” they’ll perform. McCann, Johnson, Escobar, Francoeur, and, now, Kotchman…all with fewer than five years experience. Throw in a Schafer (or other internal CF options), and it’s more of hte same. That all those kids are talented isn’t in dispute (I hope), and it’s unfortunate that most of the group chose the same year to regress, but a-step-back-two-forward is pretty SOP for young players, no?

Unless you think last year is as good as it gets for the players in that young core, banking on better production from them isn’t “hoping”, but rather, a reasonable expectation.

By Darren

November 17, 2008 2:43 PM | Link to this

Yeah I love Johnny S. He was a great general manager and his results speak for themselves. He did a way better job overall then I could ever dream of. He obviously did things right.

However I think the Justice and Dye trades were two of his worst. Mike Hampton trade was horrible also, because of the Injury bug.

By Eric from MO

November 17, 2008 2:43 PM | Link to this

For everyone who is saying Peavy option year is too much. Think 5 years ago and 16 million was unheard of for a pitcher. Who knows 20 mil may be bargain in 5 years.

By MIKE HAMPTON

November 17, 2008 2:45 PM | Link to this

HOMETOWN DISCOUNT? REDUCED SALARY ?

SURELY I CAN COAX A 2 OR 3-YEAR DEAL OUT OF SOME UNSUSPECTING TEAM. I’M BETTER THAN SCRUBS LIKE BURNETT AND DEMPSTER.

SHOW ME THE MONEY !!!!

FRANK WREN, OPEN UP THE VAULT !!!!!

By DAP

November 17, 2008 2:45 PM | Link to this

eric from MO understood. 10 year olds rarely have opinions of thier own. and it s probably a good thing that they arent yet thinking for themselves.

By More Than Three

November 17, 2008 2:46 PM | Link to this

On the subject of “the Braves being 3 players away from being a contending team,” I think it’s much deeper than that. Take a look at the Phils. Rollins is capable of carrying the team even though he had an off year. Victorino can be a sparkplug that gets things going. Utley is great. Howard is awesome. Werth has been a big contributor at times. Burrell had a very good year……considering that he has had some really disappointing years. These guys have some nice complimentary players in the lineup with them.

The Braves, with the exception of Chipper and McCann, are made up of complimentary players. Complimentary players are guys who fill a role on a team where there is no “keeper” to fill the slot. You can’t win with two horses and 6 complimentary players in the lineup. Kotchman is never going to carry the load. KJ isn’t, he’s too streaking. Escobar may turn into an all-star but he may turn into nothing. Frenchy? God knows what he’s going to be but I would say there’s a better than average chance he isn’t going to turn into anything great.

The Braves are a team of herd mentality. Other than McCann and Chipper, no one is going to step up and move the team to the next level. When a couple of guys are hitting, everyone hits! When McCann or Chipper aren’t hitting, it just doesn’t happen.

We’re more than 3 players away, I promise you that. And we haven’t even began to talk about the pitching!

By Lee in S GA

November 17, 2008 2:47 PM | Link to this

Players that rock the boat (black or white) don’t stick around very long. That’s probably the reason Escobar is being shopped this off season. He’s cocky. Personally, I wish we had a few more guys just like him.

Agree with this statement also. Have thought the same thing.

By Efrim

November 17, 2008 2:48 PM | Link to this

McFann

In regards to your 2:31, I think Flowers is as good as gone within the next calendar year. I think he has more value after a full year in Mississippi. Just think how many teams would love to acquire an offensive catcher like him. He is going to be an important trade piece.

By Eric from MO

November 17, 2008 2:49 PM | Link to this

Mcfann-o thats another reason I think we should trade Flowers if we can get something for him. Its not fair to hurt someone’s career if we already have a perinnial all-star at their position.

By Goat Horns

November 17, 2008 2:53 PM | Link to this

I keep hearing about how affordable Peavy would be at about 12-14 million/year.

What I don’t see being taken into account is the fact that if we get Peavy we will also have to sign a shortstop at 6-8 million/year.

That would mean Peavy plus a SS would cost us about 18-20 million/year towards the payroll.

If we signed Lowe, Burnett or Dempster at 12-14 million/year and add Escobar’s salary (less than 1 million) we save money plus we still have Hernandez, Morton, Locke, and a better shortstop than we would have signed.

By the way IMO Morton is going to be a lot better than a 4th or 5th starter. Don’t forget that he was a rookie last year and pitched with an injury.

Watch him pitch - very good stuff to go with nice size. He reminds me of Wainwright somewhat.

Lets be patient and keep JJ, Morton, and Hanson and try to have a “young guns” staff like the early 90s!

When you mix a young talented staff with MCCann, Escobar, KJ, Hernandez, Kotchman (you will come to appreciate this player when you see him over a full season),Frenchy (don’t give up on this talented athlete just yet), Shafer, Heywood, Flowers, and others you can have a very good team for a number of years.

By rfsbkr

November 17, 2008 2:53 PM | Link to this

Why can’t the Braves develop their own players instead of acquiring these old washed players from other teams. The better clubs in baseball have young stars, not old retreads. When will we stop spending money on players like Glavine and others that don’t produce. Baseball is a young mans game. Look at all of these 40 plus players that are hanging on for the money. It is not worth it. I like what Minnesota does every year. They get rid of the big salary guys and continue to win with young talent. Now is the perfect time to trade Chipper. You can still get some young talent for him. Do you honestly think that he will lead this team back to the top. I don’t think so. Someone in the front office needs to learn when to let players go and what type of plyers to bring in.Please don’t sign Dempster.

By Carroll Rogers

November 17, 2008 2:54 PM | Link to this

rotty, there was a little tongue in cheek on the dempster anecdote. shoot, i know if the clubhouse were made up of nothing but nice guys, jim thome would have been a Brave long, long ago.

as for going after guys in their prime 26-31. sure. that’s what you want. always. but those guys are also expensive. that’s what for debate through this whole peavy thing: how much is too much to give up for an ace in his prime. maybe that answer changes for the braves if the padres come back to the table.

By geauxbraves2000

November 17, 2008 2:55 PM | Link to this

I remember going to an Braves/Astros game in Houston a long time ago, we had either front row or second row seats right by the Braves pen (in the Astrodome). I remember Mark Wohlers screaming at a little girl, proabably in the neighborhood of 8 years old. I bet that made an impression on her without her parents saying anything. And I’d be willing to say she hasn’t forgotten it. I know I haven’t after all these years.

At times, I think young people can make their own opinions without anyone’s help.

Geaux Braves!!

By Mike Hampton's Elbow

November 17, 2008 2:57 PM | Link to this

… wait for it…. wait for it….

By ppaddy123

November 17, 2008 2:58 PM | Link to this

By McFann O –[zzz]

November 17, 2008 2:34 PM | Link to this

Branch Rickey—

That was Blogs ago, man. We’re not going over that again…Pu-leez…

McFann, every regular reader here knows how you fells about moving the guy. He puts up great numbers for a catcher. Personally, I think he’s a better hitter than he is a catcher. He calls a good game. He’s fundamentally sound behind the plate. He NEEDS to improve throwing out base runners. When you add it all up…….he’s a better hitter than he is a catcher.

By ncscoots

November 17, 2008 2:58 PM | Link to this

Since all the FA pitchers have warts of one kind or another, seems to me that you just have to pick your risk. And much of that thinking has to do with the Braves’ longer-term baseball plan, of which I have no clue. In one or another scenario, one or another of those FA’s will look better than others. But my crystal ball is a little cloudy on the lean of the Braves’ front office.

Today, at least to me, Burnett looks to be a better proposition, based on age and stuff. But check with me next week. :-)

By Lee in S GA

November 17, 2008 2:58 PM | Link to this

Finally….I’m kind of surprised that there hasn’t been more Brad Penny talk on the blog. Almost every other scenario has be fleshed out.

He will once the bigger names are signed by teams willing to outbid everyone. And unfortunately yes, even Randy Wolf, may come into the equation. If Juan Rivera and Randy Wolf are signed many fans will go into cardiac arrest. Including myself.

By macdwolfpack

November 17, 2008 3:00 PM | Link to this

I hear all this talk about going out and signing aces who have experience, but I say go find me 1-2 more Jair Jurgens in somebody’s farm system and add them to Jair, Hanson, etc and have the foundation for a long long time. Back that up with money spent on a couple of big time bats to help provide an extra cushion of error and lets go win some games and quit playing the rental or washed up game with pitchers.

By A-ville Ranger

November 17, 2008 3:01 PM | Link to this

Lowe,Dempster and Dye…..I’d be ok with that combo.

By PABravefan

November 17, 2008 3:01 PM | Link to this

Hanson through 2 innings in AZ. 0 hits 3 SO 0 BB.

By Gack Zeinke

November 17, 2008 3:01 PM | Link to this

one thing about zack greinke, he doesn’t want to be in kc, period. That awol stuff he pulled 3 or 4 years ago was because he didn’t want to play for them, not because he was crazy, although him not wanting to play showed his immaturity. He wants to play for a team that has a chance to win and probably would go longterm if it was the right money and right team. kc gm knows this and would deal him for the right players. they need rf and a ss…greinke is a stud.

By flange1

November 17, 2008 3:03 PM | Link to this

Scoots,

Well said.! I have a problem with stepping on my own toes when I type….

The Braves did count on McCann, Frenchy, Yunel and KJ to take a step forward.

McCann did, Yunel stayed in the same place, KJ was even more streaky and French had a bad year.

My thought is we have 1 more year of information on these guys, and do we need to readjust our expectations?

By Roach

November 17, 2008 3:05 PM | Link to this

Loan Shark,

Swisher could not have helped this team hitting .219 does not help your team he had 502 plate appearances hit 24 hr but struck out more than he walked and hit for the lowest avg. among AL with over 100 plate appearances absolutely ridiculous. Dye could help but how long can he keep performing like this he is 36. I personally would like to sign Bobby Abreu or trade for Upton/Jackson from the Dbacks who have a vested interest in KJ.

By Frank Wren

November 17, 2008 3:05 PM | Link to this

Flowers ain’t going nowhere because McCann lost all that weight and may be puny and hit only 4 or 5 homers next season, call it the “Reverse Frenchy Syndrome” getting to small instead of too large, Flowers is the next big thing in the ATL and he will catch

By Eric from MO

November 17, 2008 3:06 PM | Link to this

Darren- the Hampton trade was bad but we didnt give up anything.

By TennesseePaul

November 17, 2008 3:06 PM | Link to this

You are such a Michael Tucker!

I hope Dye is not the outfield answer.

And I don’t think Dempster is a valid replacement of talent for Peavy. Obviously Peavy wasn’t on this team, but Dempster as a target is a dramatic step back in talent. No way around that. The free agent hype on pitchers is disappointing. None of these guys are very promising. CC isn’t an option. Lowe is old (we’re in the post roid era, 35 used to be the new 27, now it’s back to being 35). AJ is an injury waiting to happen. Sheets is the same. Dempster isn’t impressive (his one walk year season was, but his career isn’t). Wolf is a joke. And it just gets worse from there. I’ll hope for some trades to acquire pitching. I could tolerate one of those guys as a suplemental, but not as The Big Acquisition.

This team may just be two years from seriously competing, 5 years if some of the proposed deals are made. We’ll see. It’s on Wren though. At least he was man enough to not over pay in a trade for Peavy.

By Eric from MO

November 17, 2008 3:09 PM | Link to this

geauxbraves2000 With all do respect, there is a difference between a cocky player and a straight up jerk move, like yelling at a lil girl.

By Efrim

November 17, 2008 3:10 PM | Link to this

ncscoots

Today, at least to me, Burnett looks to be a better proposition, based on age and stuff. But check with me next week. :-)

Yes. He does. And can you really see a scenario where Lowe(36 years of age and wanting to win now) passes on the Mets, Yankees and Red Sox to sign with the Braves? I’m sorry, but I can’t.

I think Dempster is a possibility, but only if the Cubs trade for Peavy and then go for the short term deal with Randy Johnson. Because if the Cubs really want Dempster, they’ll get him.

Burnett is the guy. Gotta be willing to go 5 years and 80 million for him though. Peavy would of cost 5 years and 81 million plus Escobar and prospects. Then of course, whatever you paid to get the replacement SS. I’ll take Burnett, given the reality of what it would take to acquire Peavy and the back end adjusting of our roster.

By Tomas

November 17, 2008 3:11 PM | Link to this

DAP Aj Burnett 2004: 20 2005: 32 2006: 21 2007: 25 2008: 35 Total: 133

And 10CG during that time, and 836 strikeouts. For me that guy is a horse, because he dominates, and can go all the way(meaning he can finish a game).

By TheCutMan

November 17, 2008 3:11 PM | Link to this

Carroll,

Nice work on the blog and your comments. Thank you for this.

By McFann O –[zzz]

November 17, 2008 3:11 PM | Link to this

Efrim—

I agree. After another year of seasoning, Flowers should have more value.

Eric—

Right: If the Braves cann get something good in return for Flowers, they should really consider doing so. If he has so much talent, he should be a starter…for some other team, I mean.

In my 2:31, I said “staring catcher”…I forgot a letter there…either a “t” or another “r”, doesn’t make any difference.

By MTB

November 17, 2008 3:12 PM | Link to this

By Dru

November 17, 2008 12:31 PM | Link to this

100% Real So we traded Dye because he was black? Makes a lot of sense considering we traded him for Michael Tucker (also black)!

And what did we do with him? As well as Grissom, Lofton, Wise, Gant, etc…

There is some truth in what was said, and don’t blame the fact that the % of blacks in the game has decreased. Somehow other teams can find them but we can’t?

The Braves have done the same things over and over again and they have proven for the last 3 seasons they have not worked. How come the Braves kept Frenchy after his stuggles but the year after the Braves won the World Series in which David Justice scored the only run to clinch the game he gets traded to the Indians? Does that make sense to you? Not to me.

By Efrim

November 17, 2008 3:13 PM | Link to this

Flange1

My thought is we have 1 more year of information on these guys, and do we need to readjust our expectations?

I know you posed this question to scoots, but I really think holding onto all and waiting another year makes so much more sense. Is their value really going to be that different when they are second year arb. eligible? They could have better years and then if the Braves choose to sell high, they can. Can’t get much worse years from Frenchy or Kotchman. I suppose Kelly and Escobar can regress, which would be really unfortunate considering we don’t have up the middle replacements in the minors. But I’d rather hold onto em, because I don’t think they will regress.

By Braveheart

November 17, 2008 3:16 PM | Link to this

Carroll, are you running in the Thanksgiving half-marathon again this season?

Loved the story you did last year after the marathon about you and your brothers. Hope all is well.

By Bravestillidie

November 17, 2008 3:17 PM | Link to this

I wish this love affair for Nick Swisher would be over with. Has anyone here that laments us not trading for Swisher looked at his career splits? His highest batting average in a season was .262. He has struck out well over 100 times each of the last three seasons. I think getting Swisher would have been awful. Im not saying he is a bad player cause he does have pop and does draw some walks, but honestly…there are much better options out there. I think Nelson Cruz could be had for a package of about the same thing. Rocco Baldelli would also make a great addition, he would be more of a fourth OF/project, but I wouldnt imagine he would cost much and could be a high reward reclamation project. I also like Dye and Ibanez as good options. I just think that if we are gonna trade players to fill a void then we should aim higher than Swisher. I mean the guy only drove in 69 RBI’s in 153 games on a potent offensive team with guys like Dye and Quentin and only scored 86 runs given the power of his teamates…..he just doesn’t seem like anything close to an answer to me. But that’s jsut one man’s opinion.

BTID

By Eric from MO

November 17, 2008 3:21 PM | Link to this

Since it can be agreed that there is no great FA that we can afford is really all that attractive (I already stated the problem with Dempster, Burnett, and Lowe)why dont the Braves just keep the 40 million for this year and add 10 million to the following 4 years because we arent going to win next year.

By Nate

November 17, 2008 3:21 PM | Link to this

I don’t think not blowing the entire bank roll on over priced free agent tells fan that the organization isn’t interested in winning. The same goes for gutting the farm system. I think the fans want to see a clear direction from management. Nobody wants to be in a perpetual rebuilding process like the Pirates or Royals, but if its clear the Braves front office is building or a specific time period in the near future I think most fans can understand that. Even as a fan I understand that is not realistic to expect my team to win the division every year.

The Mets and Phillies are good teams loaded with big stars. The Braves don’t have a single player who is really a star on the national level. (Until McCann starts an all-star game I don’t think he counts.) But dynasties don’t last forever, and as players get older they get more expensive. The Phillies won’t be able to keep their team together when all their young players start to hit free agency. They don’t have the money. The Mets have the money to be competitive year in and year out, but money can’t buy championships. Teams naturally fade in and out of contending over a period of years. Even the Yankee and Red Sox, who have money to cover their mistakes, miss the playoffs sometimes.

The Braves are too good of an organization to suck for a long period of time. Their time will come, but it won’t be 2009.

By McFann O –[zzz]

November 17, 2008 3:22 PM | Link to this

ppaddy—

I know that. And if I’ve said it once, I’ve said a thousand times: He’s…gonna…work…harder…on…his…defense! He said so…look, I found it online: “I want to put as much into my defense as I do my offense.”

We all think he’s a better hitter than thrower-outter-of-runners…er…um…and he wants to be a better catcher! For goodness sakes…I’ve typed this so much, I could do it with my eyes closed!

By DAP

November 17, 2008 3:22 PM | Link to this

roach disagree on swisher. very good player who had a down year in an uncomfortable situation. high OBP, good power and versitile defensivly. he could have been a fan favorite in atlanta for many years with his very reasonable contract. wren should be kicking himself for letting him pass by.

By geauxbraves2000

November 17, 2008 3:22 PM | Link to this

Eric from MO - Valid point, agreed.

Geaux Braves!!

By Eric from MO

November 17, 2008 3:25 PM | Link to this

Tomas your defintion of a “horse” is starting 25 games or fewer 3 seasons out of 5. Wow, that isnt very good. Especially considering one of those seasons that he pitched more than 25 was because he was playing for more money. So unless the Braves sign him for one year chances are he isnt going to make more than 25 starts.

By Nate

November 17, 2008 3:26 PM | Link to this

Swisher had an off year. No one is denying that. He wasn’t the answer to all the Braves troubles, but I would much rather have him starting at centerfield and backing up Kotchman on occasion than Gregor Blanco. He would have been a very valuable addition. the real kicker is that the Yankees gave up almost nothing to get him.

By Nocturnal Owl (N Nine)

November 17, 2008 3:28 PM | Link to this

Burnett is the guy. Gotta be willing to go 5 years and 80 million for him though

Yikes! That would bite us for 3 years. If there is nothing better I would keep the money to have trading powers in middle of season. That idea just scared me away for the day…….

By Tomas

November 17, 2008 3:33 PM | Link to this

Eric from MO

Aj Burnett, has awesome stuff. A 97mph 4 seam fastball, a great knuckle curve, and a good slider. All of them with very good control. Not only that, he is also an imposing figure at the mound at 6-5.

Really don’t look at his win-lose record because it doesn’t mean he was the problem. Look at his ERA. Career ERA 3.81, and if you don’t count his second year in the majors (2000 season), it’s a 3.74ERA. Tim Hudsons career ERA is 3.48. Derek Lowe career ERA 3.75.

Even Chipper Jones says Aj Burnett is a horse, a guy he never wanted to face because of his dominance.

During Burnett 10 year career he has had 4 season were his ERA has been over 4, and that is counting the season where he only made 4 starts(in 2003 when he had TJ surgery).

By Roach

November 17, 2008 3:34 PM | Link to this

DAP,

fan favorite doesnt mean you win. But I am a guy who likes high avg. guys. I agree that he has good power but he strikes out to much he does have to high obp but he isnt a very good switch hitter needs to stick to the left side where he nearly 75 pts higher than the right.

By DAP

November 17, 2008 3:34 PM | Link to this

tomas my mistake on the # of starts. if you want to define him as a horse, you are free to. however, my most people’s definition of a horse, he is not. if he had racked up at least 200 IP each year over the last 4 or 5 seasons, then yes. but IP since 2004 is 120, 209, 135, 165, 221.

120 and 135 inning years is actually horrible. 165 is ok for a 5th starter. so youre left with two good years seperated by two bad ones and call him a horse.

to me, he is about as desirable as dempster.

By PABravefan

November 17, 2008 3:34 PM | Link to this

Tommy Hanson through 3 in AZ. 1 H 5 SO 1 BB

By Braveheart

November 17, 2008 3:35 PM | Link to this

In regards to your 2:31, I think Flowers is as good as gone within the next calendar year. I think he has more value after a full year in Mississippi. Just think how many teams would love to acquire an offensive catcher like him. He is going to be an important trade piece.

Can you imagine what Theo would give for Flowers with ‘Tek leaving? Flowers is such a Bosox-ian kind of guy. Walks, homers, average, can be useful at catcher, first, DH like Youk can be useful at first, third, DH. Flowers is such a Bosox to me…… if they don’t grab Salty first. It’s too bad he’s still about a year away …..

You think the Braves could sell Flowers to the Yankees? I’d call them and tell them Jorge’s getting old, he’s injured, might not be able to catch anymore, and the Bosox are about to be all over this Flowers kid, which arms will you give us for him?

By 100% Real

November 17, 2008 3:35 PM | Link to this

I had to bring up the black thing. I’m racist, and I want what’s free. Everyone wants to keep the black man down. Spread the wealth. I want your money, I just don’t want to work for it. OBAMA will give me what’s mine!

By Roach

November 17, 2008 3:36 PM | Link to this

Nate,

No way he should start in center over Gregor. Swisher is a terrible CF he needs to just play 1B. NO range lets balls get over his head. Not a good CF.

By Dru

November 17, 2008 3:36 PM | Link to this

MTB

I’ll give you two examples that discount the idea that the Braves are somehow a racist organization. 1) Fred McGriff 2) Terry Pendleton

Pendleton has been with the organization since the early nineties, and is now the hitting coach!

By McFann O –[zzz]

November 17, 2008 3:37 PM | Link to this

Nate (Until McCann starts an all-star game I don’t think he counts.)

Oh, of course not…he’s only been to 3 ASG and received two Silver Sluggers.

Maybe he’s not a “star on the national level” to fans around the country, but the players and coaches seem to think he’s alright. (Clint Hurdle excepted, apparently)

By Efrim

November 17, 2008 3:38 PM | Link to this

N Nine

Yikes! That would bite us for 3 years. If there is nothing better I would keep the money to have trading powers in middle of season. That idea just scared me away for the day…….

I was actually being conservative. He might cost more per year than that. But again, Peavy/replacement SS/weaker farm or Burnett/Escobar/stronger farm. Because if Peavy asks us to pick up the option year before he waives that no trade, than it’s a 5 year 81 million dollar contract for a guy who just had elbow trouble and has a violent delivery.

By AdirondackDave

November 17, 2008 3:41 PM | Link to this

Ephrim got it right when he said Flowers value will be maximized when he gets a year in AA under his belt. I think the Braves should get him a couple dozen more games in LF/1B during ST and the regular season though. He seems to have decent speed for a big man so if his outfield judgement and reactions are at least adequate then LF1b become an options for that big bat. I know he’s saying he wants to catch but give Bobby and FW a half hour with him and he may think differently.

I was also relieved last Friday when the Peavy fell through. Hanson or Flowers was probably the deal breaker for the Braves, and rightly so. Wouldn’t surprise me at all if we hear talks have been resumed after the Thanksgiving break, maybe at the GMs meeting.

By Lee in S GA

November 17, 2008 3:43 PM | Link to this

Swisher could also play all outfield positions if need be. I do believe he played RF for the A’s. Not saying he is a superstar by no means but the Braves could have used him. It is not like they have mulitple all-stars in the outfield at present time. Nate like you said, the Yankees did not give up much to land him eother.

By McFann O –[zzz]

November 17, 2008 3:44 PM | Link to this

Braveheart re your 3:35—

I’m with you!

Nate—

I was unnecessarily crabby in my 3:37—I apologize.

By DAP

November 17, 2008 3:44 PM | Link to this

Bravestillidie what about swisher’s career .805 OPS and his ability to play 4 defensive positions and switch hit?

he is a very good player.

nate the real kicker is that the Yankees gave up almost nothing to get him.

yes, exactly.

By Bravestillidie

November 17, 2008 3:45 PM | Link to this

I need to make a distinction in my ealier post about Rocco Baldelli. It seems the way I wrote it that I was meaning to trade for him, but when I said cost I was tlaking about money. Baldelli is a free agent, so if and when you read it just know cost in reference to Baldelli means money not prospects.

And one more chime in on Swisher. Seriously Denizens…if you think Swisher just had an “off” year, has anyone one of you gone to look at his stats….they are all off minus his 2006 campaign. And even that wasn’t a great year, only good. In arguably his best year he hit 35 HR’s which is good, but he only drove in 95 runs…thats rediculous. His batting average that year was .254 and he struck out 152 times…and keep in mind this is in his best big league season. Folks face it Nick was not the answer and you should be glad Wren didnt send off marginal prospects for a marginal player when they can be saved to include in a possibly bigger deal for someone who would actually help* the Braves. You just can’t argue with the facts. Swisher just isn’t that good.

BTID

By Efrim

November 17, 2008 3:47 PM | Link to this

Braveheart

Flowers for Bucholz would be awesome. I doubt the Red Sox would do that though. I can dream though.

By Carroll Rogers

November 17, 2008 3:48 PM | Link to this

Braveheart, thanks for asking. Wish I were running the half-marathon this year because a) it was a blast and b) I got to do lots of guilt-free eating on thanksgiving last year. But I’m not. Still running, but not quite that far these days. Have a lot to be thankful for though. After a summer of chemo, my brother Chip is in remission!

By Corey

November 17, 2008 3:48 PM | Link to this

First off, CC Sabathia is the only free agent available that can be mentioned in the same sentence as Peavy. He was just offered 6 years @ 140 million (23.3 per). We would have Peavy for 5 years @ 81 million (16.2 per). The market for top tier starting pitching will be astronomical this year. Just wait. Burnett will probably get 16 - 18 mil per. Lowe & Dempster will probably fetch something just below that. Lowe wants a 4 year deal at the age of 35, and Dempster won’t put up those numbers again. These guys are not even close to the caliber of pitcher that Peavy is, yet their salaries will be just as much or more!

The Cubs don’t have the prospects and Peavy has not approved the Angels or Yankees. So, maybe, just maybe, the Padres are forced to come back to Wren and get less than they would have to begin with. But, we need Peavy, and I think the Padres may end up needing us too. Hopefully.

Jermaine Dye is 34, normally plays RF, and is about the worst defensive outfielder in baseball. He’s under contract for 11.5 mil in 09 & 12 mil in 2010. And, he would cost us prospects. If we are willing to completely sacrifice defense for offense, why wouldn’t we just sign Adam Dunn? He’s 29, can play LF or 1B, and could be had for a comparable salary (13 -14 mil). His average is low, but you can take 40 homers, 100 RBI’s and 150 walks to the bank.

By Eric from MO

November 17, 2008 3:49 PM | Link to this

MTB yeah the Braves have moved some black players, but they also moved some whites too. You ask why do the keep Francouer and they traded Justice. Well lets see Francouer had a great 05 and a good 07. Going into last year they expected him to improve some more. Well he didnt and now they cant trade him. Nobody wants him, unlike Justice who hit the game winning homerun in the WS and had plenty of trade value. Also David Justice was a higher price player of his generation. Francouer makes very lil compared to his generation.

The Braves have let Maddux and Glavine go. Why not bring these two up? They traded Tex, why not bring him up? They traded Milwood and Jason Schmidt, I believe they are white too. Trades happen it has nothing to do with race.

As I stated earlier 10% of players are black. This is a fitting % for them considering 10% of the population is black. This is not even considering close to a third of the baseball players are foreign. So 10% is actually probaly a good percentage. Now if anyone wants to respond to this fine, but if you do then must tell why is completly ok for the NBA and the NFL have almost no white players and no one complains.

By elliwg6

November 17, 2008 3:49 PM | Link to this

None of these guys are 100% risk free. No one is. They all have a high upside and a low downside, the worst being TJS. The thing is, you can’t win if you dont play and you cant play if you dont gamble. I trust Wren to make the right moves. The Braves dont often come out on the wrong side of a trade, and we’ve been pretty smart about this so far. You can’t have it all. CC costs too much money and Peavy costs players and all the others could get hurt. But they reason they are cheaper is beacuse they could get hurt. The days of someone like Hudson falling into our lap for nothing are over

By Roach

November 17, 2008 3:53 PM | Link to this

Think what you want about swisher I watched him all year here in Chicago and I was less than impressed. He could have taken hold of the 1B job here and he let it go. Paul Konerko had a terrible year and Swish was even worse. I will say he did come at a cheap price that is true. I think we can find somebody a little more adequate.

By DAP01

November 17, 2008 3:53 PM | Link to this

The Braves have many problems and question marks. Racism is not one of them.

Someone please tell us of BASEBALL related Braves news so this subject matter will not continue to go south!

By Jim

November 17, 2008 3:54 PM | Link to this

Through 4 inning Hanson has thrown 60 piyches — 41 for strikes. His last outing had a similar ratio of balls and stikes. His pitch count indicates that he can get in 7 innings with fewer than 110 pitches even with a high K effort.

(I think he has done enough in Arizona. Shut him down and let’s see him again in March.)

By Tomas

November 17, 2008 3:55 PM | Link to this

Eric from MO

In the last two years the Braves as a team have 3CG, in the last two years Burnett has 3CG, and in 2005 he has 4CG, and in 2002 7CG. For me he is a horse. In the 7 yrs he has had 20 starts or more he has averaged 176 ip per year, thats 12ip less than Jair Jurrjens.

Every time Aj has pitched at least 30 games he has pitched 200 ip or more.

By McFann O –[zzz]

November 17, 2008 3:55 PM | Link to this

Ms. Rogers After a summer of chemo, my brother Chip is in remission!

That’s awesome!

By Clay

November 17, 2008 3:56 PM | Link to this

I remember about a week ago I said we should put in a 6 year 120 million for CC or a 7yr 140 and I was told that won’t be close. Let’s see 20 million a year or 23 million a year. I would say that is pretty close.

By DAP

November 17, 2008 3:56 PM | Link to this

roach I am a guy who likes high avg. guys.

i understand, a high average is always good, but i would encourage you to not put as much stock in average, and pay more attention to OBP. it is a much better stat to decide on weather a player is valuable offensivly. swisher’s high OBP shows that his strikeouts arent that big of an issue because he still avoids making outs at a good rate.

also, he is servicable in center, and is descibed as a “plus defender” at LF, RF and 1B. i read that in an article talking about the trade.

By Nocturnal Owl (N Nine)

November 17, 2008 4:05 PM | Link to this

Efrim, First you make a very valid point.

Peavy could have a higher total cost on our beloved team. (Cash and players lost)

A.J. and Jake have a much different health history. A.J. is a habitual DLer! You make a case with Peavy’s past yearm which does bring some uncertainty. The MRI went well as DOB has told us many times. I still feel A.J. will visit the DL more as he’s done in the past.

No one knows the future but I just hope we learn from our injury riddled season.

Since the price tag could be similar, the Peavy trade does sting the team. We would have to spend more to buy a SS that probably be regarded less than Yunel.

Overall, I feel Peavy bring more to the team. After FIVE years, he will produce better numbers.

Lots of factors to look for at different angles…

By Eric from MO

November 17, 2008 4:05 PM | Link to this

Tomas your right my bad…Who cares if he wins games. We probably dont want to count innings or amount of games they actually started.

By jayvee

November 17, 2008 4:08 PM | Link to this

I am dubious about the Braves going out and buying pitching. It hasn’t worked well. Even Tim Hudson, who’s pretty reliable, has been a disappointment compared to his efficacy with the A’s. The Braves should stick with their young talent and develop it. I know Yunel is a little erratic but he’s just a pup. I think he’s going to be a monster next year, and thereafter. Ditto for Kelly Johnson. Frenchy will have a much better year (it can’t get much worse). These guys are just getting ready to hit their strides. A rotation of Jurrjens, Morton, Campillo, Hansen, Carlyle doesn’t sound so sexy, but if you put these guys in there and let them know you’re going to stand with them while they find their grooves, that’s better than trading all your young offensive talent. I’d rather have pitchers like Campillo and Carlyle, both of whom have some character and grit, than some high-priced prima donna. Investing in youth is how the Braves went from worst to first in the early 90s, and it’s the surest way to return to longterm dominance again. Look no further than Florida—the Rays and Marlins are loaded with young talent and will compete for titles for a long time because of it. The Braves might not win it next year, but I think they’ll be much improved if they follow this path, and then be in a position in 2010 to put the proverbial pedal to the metal. Oh, yeah, and move McCann to first base. Could you imagine what kind of hitter he’d be if he weren’t all bound up and exhausted from catching most every day in the Georgia heat?

By Eric from MO

November 17, 2008 4:08 PM | Link to this

HAHAHAHA I just read Tomas 3:55 post. He is bragging cause in 7 years Burnett has started at least 20 games. I give up, You win he is a workhorse. Silly me, I thought workhorses pitched like 30 games or something. What was I thinking?

By Raddad

November 17, 2008 4:09 PM | Link to this

I want Jake Peavy in a braves uniform as much as the Braves due. I will say it again he wants to play for the Chicago Cubs. He will invoke his no trade clause if a deal is reached with Atlanta. The San Diego tribune is reporting this. He is good friends with Mark Grace and even he says his heart is in Chicago. Let it go. I just hope the braves are not going to miss the boat on FA or trades.

By Tomas

November 17, 2008 4:09 PM | Link to this

Wow Tommy Hanson. 5ip 1 hit 10SO. Man thank god Wren didn’t trade him. I want to see him in the rotation next year, I hope what he is doing proves to be enough.

By McFann O –[zzz]

November 17, 2008 4:12 PM | Link to this

“Frank Wren”—

If you think that’s the case, you’ve got another thing comin’.

By Bubdylan

November 17, 2008 4:14 PM | Link to this

Three run blast for Tyler Flowers. That’s hit #3 for him, to go with a walk. Looks on gameday graphic like he hit it a mile, too.

By AdirondackDave

November 17, 2008 4:15 PM | Link to this

Jim — What is Hanson’s line (beyond strikes and balls) in today’s Arizona game? Many thanks. Dave

By flange1

November 17, 2008 4:15 PM | Link to this

Efrim,

I think you are right on a few things you have posted today!

The Braves are going to look a lot like the Dodgers, keep many of their prospects and then OVERPAY for FA, hopefully high dollar shorter contracts.

If I had my way, I would sign AJ, if it takes 5 and 80 so be it.

Sign a lefty reliever, did you see Affeldt just signed with the Giants for 2yr $8 million?

But you have to trade for the second pitcher and LF.

I would look at Dye by offering salary relief + B Jones and Medlin or Marek

I would look at Ian Snell for B Lillibridge, B Boyer and JoJo maybe give them Redmond back!

Then sit back and look to tweak to improve.

Sign Hampton if you can, if not let’s see Hanson…

By ppaddy123

November 17, 2008 4:17 PM | Link to this

By McFann O –[zzz]

November 17, 2008 3:22 PM

I know that. And if I’ve said it once, I’ve said a thousand times: He’s…gonna…work…harder…on…his…defense!

We all think he’s a better hitter than thrower-outter-of-runners…er…um…and he wants to be a better catcher!

Let’s see………He plays the single most demanding position in baseball…….he’s great hitter and an average catcher. Because of the physical demands of the position, he needs extra rest which takes his prowess as a hitter out of the line up.

McFann, you and I are never going to agree. I want the guy to be able to play EVERYDAY or as much as possible. He played 145 games last year but that was because Bobby Cox didn’t have a suitable back up to rest him more. I bet he plays in 10 fewer games this year, barring injury.

By THE BEAR

November 17, 2008 4:17 PM | Link to this

*By 100% Real

November 17, 2008 3:22 PM | Link to this

I had to bring up the black thing. I’m racist, and I want what’s free. Everyone wants to keep the black man down. Spread the wealth. I want your money, I just don’t want to work for it. OBAMA will give me what’s mine*

OK, I believe you.

By Steve from OH

November 17, 2008 4:18 PM | Link to this

Good day for the AFL Braves today…Hanson has 10K in 5 scoreless innings (1 hit), Flowers 3-3, 3run HR, BB…Van Pope 2-2, GS, BB

By Roach

November 17, 2008 4:22 PM | Link to this

Bubdylan,

He hit 3 in one game already has to be his 11th or 12th.

By Barrett

November 17, 2008 4:22 PM | Link to this

katz Not everyone has the same upringing. I was raised to play the game right. I did that all the way through college until I broke my forearm. I have always liked the players that just played the game. Not every kid likes the loud, obnoxious ones. My dad did teach me to like the players like that, I’ll give you that. But there is nothing wrong with that. Not to me. I’m sorry if a 10 year old that realizes that a player doesn’t seem to be the best person in the way he acts offends you. Not my problem though… Thanks though. :-)

By Moby Grape

November 17, 2008 4:23 PM | Link to this

If Flowers is suppose to be Major League ready, why are we not shopping himEric

where did you ever get the idea that Flowers is major league ready with Low A ball being the highest level he has played in? You must have been reading too many posts by the dreamers on Braves boards.He needs another year or two of catching regularly and he isn’t going to get that in the majors. Every time some kid has a good fall or spring training there are some idiots who believe he’s got to be in the majors immediately.

By McFann O –[zzz]

November 17, 2008 4:25 PM | Link to this

jayvee Oh, yeah, and move McCann to first base.

Hmm…That’s a new concept…wonder why that hasn’t been brought up on here befo—

Sorry…talk about crabby…

Could you imagine what kind of hitter he’d be if he weren’t all bound up and exhausted from catching most every day in the Georgia heat?

Maybe he won’t get so exhausted now that his body is smaller.

By Tomas

November 17, 2008 4:27 PM | Link to this

Efrim from Mo

This is what Atlanta’s best hitter had to say about Aj.

Jones said he’s excited about some of possible pitching acquisitions the Braves could make, specifically citing Peavy and potential Toronto free agent A.J. Burnett.

“There’s some names out there that are very appealing to me,” Jones said. “I like a guy like A.J. Burnett. I’ve always dreaded facing that guy. A.J. is a bulldog. Peavy’s a bulldog. Those guys, they take the mound, they want to stick it to you, and they’re competitors, not afraid to show emotions, stuff like that. I think that’s great. They’re not showing anybody up, they just want to win.

“I think that, at times, is something we’ve been missing, that guy who’s going to walk out on the mound, and when he walks on the mound, he’s looking to throw a complete-game shutout. That kind of competitive spirit would be good for this clubhouse and this team. And they’re both strikeout pitchers. We all know that’s what wins in the postseason. You get two power arms like that, you’ve got a formula for not just being built for 162 games, but for a short series.”

A Bulldog, that is just another word for horse.

By mbatl

November 17, 2008 4:27 PM | Link to this

AdirondackDave, for Hanson, 5 IP, 1 hit (single in the 3rd), 2 BB, 10 K’s, 0 runs. 53 strikes in 79 pitches. Got better as he went along: struck out 3 in the 3rd, 3 in the 4th, and 2 in the 5th.

By Bubdylan

November 17, 2008 4:29 PM | Link to this

LOL, they took Tommy Hanson out and the other team has promptly scored 3 runs while recording one out. 13-3 now.

By Roach

November 17, 2008 4:30 PM | Link to this

My fault bubdylan didnt read your post correctly

By Nate

November 17, 2008 4:31 PM | Link to this

I think McCann is a great player. I would rather have him than Martin or Soto, but star power isn’t always about superior playing ability.

My point was that the Mets have guys like Wright, and Reyes, and Santana. The Phillies have Rollins, and Howard, and Ultey, and Hamels.

The Braves biggest stars are Smoltz, and over the hill pitcher who may never pitch again, and Chipper, another over the hill veteran who misses 40 games a year. McCann is probably the Braves best player, but he has no national media presence. Opposing fans, especially casual ones, don’t know McCann’s name.

By Gone Viral

November 17, 2008 4:35 PM | Link to this

Congratulations on your brother’s health, Carroll. That’s wonderful news.

By Bubdylan

November 17, 2008 4:35 PM | Link to this

Roach, the homer by Tyler Flowers was his 3rd base hit for today. Sorry, I wrote it fuzzy. He has 12 dingers in 70 AFL at bats now.

By THE BEAR

November 17, 2008 4:37 PM | Link to this

I keep getting these crazy visions of Flowers playing LF during SP and popping the eyes out of Bobby Cox. A conversation ensues where Flowers is told he can catch every fifth game as McCann’s back up and play LF field the other four. That way he can make a big contribution to the Braves year in 2009 and continue to hone his catching skills.

He will also be on the scene in case McCain should get injured (or come down with the flu).

Why not be creative and give it a shot? What is there to lose? He is obviously carrying a big bat and if he can play LF then do it for crying out loud.

By McFann O –[zzz]

November 17, 2008 4:39 PM | Link to this

ppaddy McFann, you and I are never going to agree.

That may very well be true. Heck, I’d love his bat in the lineup every stinkin’ day, but I don’t think the Braves see moving him to first as an option.

he’s great hitter and an average catcher.

And how do we know he’d be good at first base? This is not a knock against him, I’m just saying.

I have the utmost confidence that his throwing will be much improved in ‘09. I know last year I said the same thing for ‘08 (heck, he was a few percentage points better in ‘08 than in ‘07), but this year, I’m certain. I know I sound like a broken record, but he’s gonna take his defense more seriously this off-season.

If the Braves cann find a slugging LF’er, and if Francoeur “finds his swing”, then they won’t have as big a hole in the lineup when McCann needs a day to rest.

He’s gonna do all he cann to stay at catcher—and that’s where he’s gonna stay unless something (injury) happens that forces him to move.

We’ll just have to agree to disagree on this one. It doesn’t seem like either of us cann convince the other one.

By Rick Long

November 17, 2008 4:39 PM | Link to this

I understand not wanting to give up Hanson or Heyward to get Peavy. I also think that Towers was “horsing” Wren around and applaud him for telling him to “fish or cut bait”. However, you cannot form an intelligent opinion regarding whether the Braves were being asked to give up too much until you know EXACTLY who they were being asked to give up. For obvious reasons, Wren will not share those names. Having said all that, IF the Braves were only offering Escobar and Morton, then I don’t blame Towers for nixing a deal. On the other hand, if Towers insisted on Hanson or a package which included not only Escobar and Morton, but Hernandez and Boyer as well, then Wren PROBABLY was wise to say no.

Having said all of that, the fact of the matter is that Peavy is in the same class as Sabathia (i.e. a genuine #1 starter) and would cost the Braves much less (money-wise). I understand the argument about not “overpaying” with young players and propsects to acquire even a bona fide talen like Peavy. On the other hand, if the Braves’ opportunity to acquire him is totally dead (as opposed to just the usual posturing), then I am concerned that they will ultimately “overpay” (assuming any of them actually sign with the Braves) for substantially lesser talents such as Lowe (never a true ace and not getting any younger), Burnett (like the girl with the curl, but with an injury history) or Dempster (who had a career year last year, but was never really anything special before that). I also appreciate that Peavy’s elbow has “barked” a little the past couple of years. I don’t, however, see him as more an injury risk than these three guys (all of whom are older than him and none of whom can even approach Peavy’s his talent).

By Efrim

November 17, 2008 4:44 PM | Link to this

N Nine

Since the price tag could be similar, the Peavy trade does sting the team. We would have to spend more to buy a SS that probably be regarded less than Yunel.

To me, Yunel is a future star. So I’d rather upgrade the rotation with Burnett and keep Escobar than to deal for Peavy and replace him with Renteria or someone similar. I think you pay for the future. Obviously looking at the last 6 seasons makes you think it is a no brainer for Peavy. But I think Peavy is just as big a injury risk. I know many will disagree with that, but it’s my opinion.

By Braveheart

November 17, 2008 4:45 PM | Link to this

A Bulldog, that is just another word for horse.

No, it isn’t. A workhorse gives you 34 starts, 6.5 innings a start and 225 innings. A bulldog fights you to the death whenever he fights but may never give you more than 10 innings a season. He’ll fight like hell in those 10 innings but won’t be the workhorse that eats 225 innings. You can be both a workhorse and a bulldog but that would mean you have to fight to the death for all 225 innings you throw. You can be a workhorse without being a bulldog and be a bulldog without being a workhorse.

By Raddad

November 17, 2008 4:45 PM | Link to this

Hey Nate.

Just ask opposing teams if they now who Brain McCann’s and they will say they do not want face him in clutch. He delivers!! That’s fine if he is not a household name yet? So What! The Atlanta Braves are a blue collar team. If you want movie stars and glamor try the New York Yankees…..He is one of the best catchers in the MLB period.

By GeorgetownKid

November 17, 2008 4:46 PM | Link to this

Carroll

I am so happy to learn about your brother! My sister has cancer and I lost my mom earlier this year. Remission is my favorite word to hear!!

Thanks for the new blog. I don’t post much, but I love reading these things.

By nolie

November 17, 2008 4:47 PM | Link to this

Burnett is the guy. Gotta be willing to go 5 years and 80 million for him though. Peavy would of cost 5 years and 81 million plus Escobar and prospects. Then of course, whatever you paid to get the replacement SS. I’ll take Burnett, given the reality of what it would take to acquire Peavy and the back end adjusting of our roster.Efrim

I am highly dubious that Burnett is worth anywhere near a five year 80 million dollar contract(not saying that he won’t get it). The guy is 11 games over .500 and 8 of them are from this last year, a walk year. He’s never even been an all-star. If you look up his similar pitchers on BBR Randy Wolfe is in his lists. Now granted he has great stuff, but his control is marginal and his head is questionable and he’s just about as injury prone as all those others. I think he’s gonna bring more, actually a lot more, than he is worth.

By Braveheart

November 17, 2008 4:47 PM | Link to this

Glad to hear that your brother is doing well, Carroll.

By AdirondackDave

November 17, 2008 4:48 PM | Link to this

Hanson and Flowers each had another great game in Arizona. Hanson will be 5-0 with an ERA way under 1.00. This is NOT a man among boys, it’s a man among girls (if I can say so without being sexist.)

Flowers hit his 12th homer + 3 RBIs and is now hitting a comfortable .400. I said before that while he needs a year at AA to work further on defense, MaC probably has an eye on the rear view mirror. This guy may becoming just too good to trade for anybody.

It’s going to be a lot of fun to watch Hanson, Flowers, and others develop in ‘09 whether it’s in the minors or in Atlanta. Peavy-Shmevy, I can’t wait for spring training. I haven’t been so excited about baseball since, as a Tigers fan then, seeing Mark (The Bird) Fydrich come through baseball like a comet. I’ll never forget him walking off the mound and holding a conversation with the baseball!

By ppaddy123

November 17, 2008 4:49 PM | Link to this

By McFann O –[zzz] November 17, 2008 4:39 PM

We’ll just have to agree to disagree on this one. It doesn’t seem like either of us cann convince the other one.

I sincerely agree. You always stick to your McCann opinions

By Eric from MO

November 17, 2008 4:50 PM | Link to this

Moby Grape http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=ArLna4NqYSI3EsOLFSEN42ARvLYF?slug=ge-catcher111608&prov=yhoo&type=lgns That is where. Plus your right I have heard plenty of other writers say it too.

By GT

November 17, 2008 4:53 PM | Link to this

If the deal for Peavy was constructed as we read it, calling off talks was appropriate for the Braves. But not because of any doubts about Peavy himself. His health is as good as any starting being discussed as an acquisition target right now, and his stuff is a degree of magnitude better than Lowe, Dempster, Burnett, etc.

If the Braves don’t add Peavy, it will seriously crimp their ability to compete with the Mets and Phillies next year. That said, dropping the discussion with Padres IS appropriate, if a deal was contingent upon giving up Escobar, Morton and Flowers. Simply, can’t do it. And the Braves made the right call.

By the same token, I think its a mistake for the Braves to tie up too many resources in a Lowe or Burnett caliber starter, if this is the best that is available on the Free Agent market this offseason. I’d rather the Braves conserve their own prospects, and be ready to make a good signing next year, when the S.P. free agent pool improves.

Sorry - but Dempster, Lowe, or Burnett is not going to get this team to the next level.

By ppaddy123

November 17, 2008 4:56 PM | Link to this

Someone mentioned Brad Penny earlier (sorry I’m too lazy to find the post)……If he could get that big body of his into shape, I would love to have a combination of Penny and AJ Burnett in the starting rotation. I’m starting to think the Braves won’t re-sign Mike Hampton. I think he’ll end up in the NL west.

By McFann O –[zzz]

November 17, 2008 4:56 PM | Link to this

Nate Braves best player, but he has no national media presence. Opposing fans, especially casual ones, don’t know McCann’s name.

That’s for sure. The only problem with no national attention is it costs him a starting spot in the All-Star Game. Otherwise—IMHO—it’s perfectly fine.

By siskel

November 17, 2008 4:56 PM | Link to this

“A Bulldog, that is just another word for horse”

I may be splitting hairs, but by bulldog I think Chipper meant he has very good stuff, a horse would mean he pitches a lot of innings, you know like a work horse. Chipper just wants somebody to keep him company on the bench since Hampton’s leaving.

By Moby Grape

November 17, 2008 4:57 PM | Link to this

roach disagree on swisher. very good player who had a down year in an uncomfortable situation. high OBP, good power and versitile defensivly. he could have been a fan favorite in atlanta for many years with his very reasonable contract. wren should be kicking himself for letting him pass byDAP

I love OBP too, but you often ignore everything but the difference between a BA and OBP. There is more to baseball, and this comes from a guy who has been into innovative stats my whole long life. Swisher is ok, but he is not Dunn who has enough power and OBP to get past his terrible batting averages. Swisher has neither as good OB numbers or nearly as much power. Not everybody can be effective enough as a three true outcomes guy.

By McFann O –[zzz]

November 17, 2008 4:57 PM | Link to this

BTW—Pujols won the MVP!! Haha! No Fillies!!

: )

By Eric from MO

November 17, 2008 4:58 PM | Link to this

No Tomas, you keep amazing me at your stupidity. You need to just stop. A bulldog is not a horse and is not the same thing as a horse. When Chipper said a bulldog he was speaking of the way he pitches when he actually pitches,which is not often. A horse would be someone who pitches when it is their turn to pitch each time. Not someone who pitches every 8 games unless it is a contract year. Seriously do want Chipper also be talking about someone who is a horse. Compared to Chipper everybody is a horse, with the exception to Hampton and Hampton is borderline.

By Carroll Rogers

November 17, 2008 5:02 PM | Link to this

Rick Long, those are good comments re: peavy, but one small point to make about overpaying for players like burnett, lowe, or dempster. granted you don’t ever want to overpay for anybody - with cash or with prospects - but i think it can be hard to compare money spent to minor league prospects lost.

once the prospect goes, you can’t get him back (9 times out of 10). if you spend some bad money, you can trade that contract away or wait for that contract to run out. the boys at liberty media surely don’t want to hear that - and yes a huge, bad contract can kill ya trying to structure a roster - but to me money costs can be easier to recoup than prospects given up. if they are as special as some of the propsects the padres apparently wanted.

By Moby Grape

November 17, 2008 5:05 PM | Link to this

By Corey

November 17, 2008 3:48 PM Corey

some good thoughts guy

By McFann O –[zzz]

November 17, 2008 5:06 PM | Link to this

Raddad Just ask opposing teams if they now who Brain McCann’s and they will say they do not want face him in clutch. He delivers!! That’s fine if he is not a household name yet? So What!

So true!

Heck, speaking of being in the national spotlight, John Grove came in thirteenth in the MVP voting…right behind Chipper Jones!!

Mac’s not in the Top 27……But here are the guys that are.

Ppaddy I sincerely agree. You always stick to your McCann opinions

Um…yeah…How come it’s italicized? Are you quoting somebody?

By MGL

November 17, 2008 5:08 PM | Link to this

New Pitching prospect:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/baseball/more/11/17/japan.schoolgirl.ap/index.html?cnn=yes

By Nocturnal Owl (N Nine)

November 17, 2008 5:11 PM | Link to this

BTW—Pujols won the MVP!! Haha! No Fillies! McFann

King Albert did everything with a sore elbow. That is almost everything :) (HOSS)

Wheres the Utley-Howard MVP talks now? hahaha

BTW chipper DID receive ONE second place vote!! WTG HOSS!!!! good for 12th just ahead of SOTO..out of all people McFann..lol

By McFann O –[zzz]

November 17, 2008 5:13 PM | Link to this

OK, so that’s not just the Top 27…those are all the guys that got votes.

Chipper was the only Brave to get any votes.

By Moby Grape

November 17, 2008 5:14 PM | Link to this

A Bulldog, that is just another word for horse.**Tomas 4:37

nah, one is a canine and one is an equine. Horse has more of a meaning of taking on a high workload than bulldog does. Bulldog goes more to gritty hard-nosed competitiveness. Not really quite the same things.

By Nate

November 17, 2008 5:15 PM | Link to this

Having big name stars helps teams several ways. Big stars can do a lot of good for teams. A big star can be the face of the franchise. Having big stars can make a team more appealing to free agents. It helps sell tickets and attracts new fans. Big stars attract national media, and teams with big stars end up on nationally televised games more often.

Having big names may or may not make much difference on the field, but baseball is a business. You’ve got a sell a product to the fans, and big stars are a great marketing tool.

The most successful Braves teams had big stars in Smoltz, Glavine, and Maddux, Justice, McGriff, etc.

By Braveheart

November 17, 2008 5:16 PM | Link to this

I really don’t like Burnett. The guy doesn’t eat innings and he doesn’t create much run differential either. 122 is the highest his ERA+ has ever gone. He’s only gone over 200 innings twice inthe last six seasons (which, really, should have been his age 25 to 31 prime).

The dude is gonna be 32 next season. At that age, he should have long ago firmly established himself as an innings eater and run differential creator. He hasn’t. When exactly is he going to become a consistent provider of results? 10 years into his career and he still hasn’t done it. I highly doubt he’s gonna do it over the next 5 seasons.

By Carroll Rogers

November 17, 2008 5:18 PM | Link to this

Thanks GeorgetownKid. Remission really is a great word. Makes you cry (with happiness, of course) when you hear it. Thinking good thoughts for your sister!

By ppaddy123

November 17, 2008 5:22 PM | Link to this

By Moby Grape

November 17, 2008 5:14 PM | Link to this

A Bulldog, that is just another word for horse.**Tomas 4:37

nah, one is a canine and one is an equine. Horse has more of a meaning of taking on a high workload than bulldog does. Bulldog goes more to gritty hard-nosed competitiveness. Not really quite the same things.

I totally agree……..A horse is a horse, of course….

By MGL

November 17, 2008 5:24 PM | Link to this

A Bulldog, that is just another word for horse.**Tomas 4:37

Workhorses are big and strong, bulldogs are short and slobber.

By ppaddy123

November 17, 2008 5:25 PM | Link to this

A horse is a horse, of course, of course, And no one can talk to a horse of course That is, of course, unless the horse is the famous Mister Ed.

Go right to the source and ask the horse He’ll give you the answer that you’ll endorse. He’s always on a steady course. Talk to Mister Ed.

People yakkity yak a streak and waste your time of day But Mr. Ed will never speak unless he has something to say

A horse is a horse, of course, of course, And this one’ll talk ‘til his voice is hoarse. You never heard of a talking horse?

Well listen to this: “I’m Mister Ed.”

By AK

November 17, 2008 5:32 PM | Link to this

No to Dempster and Dye. If we trade with the White Sox, get Jenks, we need him. I think the Braves should sign B. Penny. I think he will be back on track next year. Trade our old friends the KC Roylas for Z. Greinke. He would be an awsome addition. I think we need to pick up a very good Power hitter. I like A. Dunn. Think he could do well in Atlanta.

By jayvee

November 17, 2008 5:32 PM | Link to this

What’s all this sturm and drang about defining a bulldog vs. a horse?

It’s all a bunch of bullhorse!

By MGL

November 17, 2008 5:34 PM | Link to this

Braves make offer to Ohman. He says “It was a strong offer intended to show me that they’d like to have me back,” said Ohman, who made a career-high 83 appearances for the Braves this past season. “I’ve talked to my agent and we’ve agreed that once you file for free agency, you just have to let everything run its course. I think I’d be remiss not to listen to what else is out there.”

By Tomas

November 17, 2008 5:35 PM | Link to this

Okay lets just get Livan Hernandez. He is a horse, doesn’t get injured pitches in every starts and gives you a lot of innings.

My definition of a horse is CC Sabathia, a guy who pitches a lot of inning, has a lot of Complete games, and strikes out a lot of guys.

Yes Aj Burnett has a history of injuries, but I prefer to have a guy like him, than lets say Jon Garland, Derek Lowe, or Livan Hernandez. And at least you can agree this year Aj Burnett was a horse pitching 220 innings in 35 games.

You know why they’re giving CC a 140 million dollar contract. Because he is an Ace, a bulldog, and a horse.

When I say Burnett is a horse, I mean when he is healthy(which is not every year). A horse in my personal opinion is a guy who dominates and averages 6 innings or more per start.

The reason I think Burnett is so great is because his stuff is oustanding, and dominates.

Pitch repertoire:

Burnett is essentially a two-pitch pitcher, relying on the combination fastball and curveball. His four-seam fastball resides in the 95-98MPH range while his sinker is in the low 90s. His velocity had slightly diminished in recent years, prior to undergoing the Tommy John surgery in 2003, Burnett’s fastball had been clocked over 100mph frequently.

Recently, Burnett has modified his curveball delivery, from over-the-top to more of a 3/4 sidearm delivery, thus adding velocity as well as increasing the already sharp movement of the pitch. Burnett also possesses a change-up but is seldom used. However, since joining the Blue Jays he had worked to improve his change-up with the help of pitching coach Brad Arnsberg and has demonstrated some moderate success with the pitch.

Accomplishments:

* Led American League with 231 strikeouts (2008)
* Led National League in shutouts (five, 2002)
* Pitched a 3-0 no-hitter against the San Diego Padres (at Qualcomm Stadium, on May 12, 2001). He walked 9 batters in this game.
* Matched his own franchise single-game record by striking out 14 batters in a July 6, 2005, 12-inning 5-4 win against the Milwaukee Brewers, in which the Marlins struck out a team record 22 batters and retired 28 straight batters.
* Second all-time on the Florida Marlins' win list with 49 (behind Dontrelle Willis), first all-time with complete games (14), shutouts (8), and strikeouts (753)
* With 38 wins between the two in 2008, Burnett (18-10) and Roy Halladay (20-11) set a new franchise record for most wins in a season by a duo, beating out the 37 wins between Jack Morris and Juan Guzman in the 1992 season.

By McFann O –[zzz]

November 17, 2008 5:35 PM | Link to this

N Owl—

Yeah! Our guy was ahead of Grove…I think they call that “poetic justice”.

Nate McLouth got one vote (a tenth place vote)…it’s a shame BMac didn’t get one.

Oh well…maybe next year. I’m not gonna brood about it. He won the Silver Slugger, after all.

Wheres the Utley-Howard MVP talks now? hahaha

LOL! Yeah, I guess that all went for naught!

By McFann O –[zzz]

November 17, 2008 5:36 PM | Link to this

ppaddy—

That’s a funny show. Not quite as good as Hogan’s Heros, though.

By McFann O –[zzz]

November 17, 2008 5:37 PM | Link to this

ppaddy—

I didn’t say that to put you down!

By Nate

November 17, 2008 5:38 PM | Link to this

I’ve never heard A.J. Burnett whinny.

By Bubdylan

November 17, 2008 5:45 PM | Link to this

Smoltz is Seabuscuit. Hampton… Barbaro.

By jayvee

November 17, 2008 6:00 PM | Link to this

Hampton is a gelding.

By brian

November 17, 2008 6:01 PM | Link to this

thanks Carroll - I was going through withdrawal.

I just wished I could have said something about Rhode Island

By Nocturnal Owl (N Nine)

November 17, 2008 6:02 PM | Link to this

Oh well…maybe next year. I’m not gonna brood about it. He won the Silver Slugger, after all McFann

I have a serious problem with this issue. So the writers are telling me McCann won the slugger award over soto and soto gets 41 total votes.

McCann(2008 C Silver slugger) gets ZERO total votes.

Something wrong with that.

Oh ya, this comes in the same year when out of nowhere F.k udome gets start in the All star game.

Cubs players get too much love.

By richbrave

November 17, 2008 6:02 PM | Link to this

Let’s get BURNETT under contract. 17 million and incentives first year, five years 90 million, lots of insurance.

By ppaddy123

November 17, 2008 6:03 PM | Link to this

Who ever the Braves sign/trade for to pitch, whether they be bulldogs or horses, needs to have the mind set of an ace. I don’t think Dempster can be the #1 choice. Ultimately, it has to come down to Burnett or Lowe. Or finishing the trade with the Padres, which has already been mentioned. I think the Braves will be players where FA pitching is concerned.

By Steve from OH

November 17, 2008 6:11 PM | Link to this

NNine, there are many things wrong with the MVP, ROY, HOF etc voting processes. You’ll get nowhere arguing it though.

Kinda like how Edinson Volquez got ROY votes when he wasn’t even a rookie. Think about that.

By Braveheart

November 17, 2008 6:23 PM | Link to this

Maybe he was just confused about the difference between a bulldog and a worhkorse because he’s been watching too many UGA football games this season. UGA may play ‘em all this year like a workhorse should but they never once fought like bulldogs this season.

By Nocturnal Owl (N Nine)

November 17, 2008 6:27 PM | Link to this

Steve from OH

Who did Chipper lose to for the ROY? lol-Ya good point.

By Ebravesluvr

November 17, 2008 6:27 PM | Link to this

Add me to the list of people who are relieved that we didn’t give up all that talent for Peavy. While I did want Peavy because I feel like we really NEEDED him, I think that the Padres handled the whole thing terribly and I’m glad Wren pulled the plug and didn’t act like a little B__tch trailing after Towers like a little puppy.

I don’t see us contending before 2010 anyway, so let’s just do something to build toward then. I don’t feel like we’re that far off right now. Get a young, relatively cheap power hitting left fielder, a pitcher or two, sign Ohman and then we’ll just sit back and enjoy the Braves with no expectations for 2009. And before anyone thinks it, I’m not giving up on 2009 because I know anything can happen but I just don’t see it happening.

By BigBucksGalore

November 17, 2008 6:28 PM | Link to this

Let’s get BURNETT under contract. 17 million and incentives first year, five years 90 million, lots of insurance.

sure, so he can win 5 more games that he loses over the next 5 years, just like he averaged over the first ten. That is easily worth 18 million a year.

By Andy K.

November 17, 2008 6:30 PM | Link to this

Braves made very competitive offer for Will Ohman, see MLB Trade rumors!

By richbrave

November 17, 2008 6:35 PM | Link to this

TYLER FLOWERS for back-up catcher. Bound to hit better than .083 and allow less than 7 PB’s and E’s in 29 games. Besides he can back-up KOTCHMAN at 1st base also. May not be as good offensively as FA’s like BARRETT or ESTRADA, but his defense is at least equal to both of them. And he costs little toward the 40 million pile of cash LIBERTY holds out for 2009.

By f.n. hale

November 17, 2008 6:38 PM | Link to this

NNine I won’t argue that Mac should have at least gotten consideration for MVP, though certainly not strong consideration, but the silver slugger is for the best hitter at his position, which he is and MVP take into account much more than that. Mac is a good catcher and a very good hitter. What, to me, makes him worthy of a few votes is that he plays when most catchers don’t (day games after night games, etc.) and never wants a day off. My concern with him isn’t, as I’ve said before, the quality of his defense, but if he doesn’t lose some weight and/or Bobby doesn’t see fit to rest him more his body won’t hold up for much longer. I grew up a catcher and it takes a real toll on your body, especially your knees and back. We need a BUC with some pop.

By TennesseePaul

November 17, 2008 6:39 PM | Link to this

That is easily worth 18 million a year

You can thank Schmidt for this type of pay. Put up a good year or two and stay on the DL the rest of the time and you must get more than Silva and Meche.

It just ain’t right.

By sandygirl

November 17, 2008 6:41 PM | Link to this

Being a nice guy does not win you games. I dont want Dempster and I dont want Glavine or Smoltz back in the rotation either. I would rather let the rookies pitch then overpay for a pitcher or have to give up our farm system. Worst case the rookies make the lineup and get experience for next year. Ya never know, they might do ok on their own given the right backstop and lineup.

By Bubdylan

November 17, 2008 6:43 PM | Link to this

AdirondackDave, I enjoyed your 4:48.

By Braveheart

November 17, 2008 6:44 PM | Link to this

Who did Chipper lose to for the ROY?

Hideo Nomo. Ridiculous.

By Daybed Wagmoe

November 17, 2008 6:53 PM | Link to this

Steve from OH — actually, Edinson Volquez was a rookie this year. According to the MLB.com website,

A player shall be considered a rookie unless, during a previous season or seasons, he has (a) exceeded 130 at-bats or 50 innings pitched in the Major Leagues; or (b) accumulated more than 45 days on the active roster of a Major League club or clubs during the period of 25-player limit (excluding time in the military service and time on the disabled list).

Although it wasn’t his first year in MLB, he never broke that 50-IP threshold. His three previous IP totals: 12.7 (2005), 33.3 (06), and 34.0 (07). So, he was rookie-eligible this year.

By elliwg6

November 17, 2008 7:00 PM | Link to this

he wasnt rookie eligible. there has been a ton written about it

By Bill1956

November 17, 2008 7:05 PM | Link to this

I am for passing on Peavy. Sign Dempster or Burnett. Sign Wolfe or Perez. Trade for Ludwick. Our line-up. Anderson/Shafer, Escobar, Jones, Ludwick, McCann, Kotchman, Francoeur, Prado. SP is Dempster/Burnett, Jurrjen, Wolfe/Perez, Campillo and Hansen/Morton/Reyes. We keep all upcoming talent. Lose Johnson in trade.

By Steve from OH

November 17, 2008 7:06 PM | Link to this

Daybed, no, he wasn’t a rookie, according to this BBWAA member.

I think you’re reading the rule as though he has to complete more than 50 innings in a single season to not be a rookie, but it’s that as soon as he exceeds 50 innings, regardless of the time frame, he’s not a rookie.

By ncscoots

November 17, 2008 7:07 PM | Link to this

Good grief. ALL the FA pitchers have flaws, and they are ALL going to be overpaid. So what? I repeat, so blinking what? That’s the price of doing business, so you might as well deal with it. As obviously have the Braves. Otherwise, they’d be crying in their Cheerios like some of you guys, moaning about Burnett’s innings, or Lowe’s age, or Dempster’s track record. Or whatever.

Hudson is down. You guys forget that? There is exactly one guy you can maybe count on in the 2009 rotation, and that assumes Jurrjens has no regression (hardly a lock). I like Morton a lot, and Hanson has great upside, and blah blah blah, etc., etc., etc. But the guys currently on the roster who have even a miniscule chance to open as starters don’t have 1000 innings in the whole blamed bunch.

The Braves have no choice, unless you consider getting beaten bloody in 2009 an option. They have to get pitching, even if it’s second-tier, overpaid, overrated, and makes some bloggers want to throw up in the mouth. At the worse, that would be better than running five youngsters out there for nightly clubbings.

By larry

November 17, 2008 7:08 PM | Link to this

take apage from the Rays book, find a Matt Garza type.

By BravesFanInRockies

November 17, 2008 7:10 PM | Link to this

richbrave,

My rational side says it’s hard to see any scenario that would let Flowers stay in Atlanta in 2009.

Then I get this odd vision of him absolutely crushing the ball in ST. The Braves, unable to find an adequate backup catcher and after acquiring Brian Giles from the Padres, break camp with Flowers as a reserve, giving Heap 40 games off behind the plate and letting Kotchman and Giles take an occasional day off themselves. He gets 400 plate appearances after all.

Nah. Never happen. But you can always dream.

By BravesFanInRockies

November 17, 2008 7:11 PM | Link to this

Oh I forgot. And in mid-May, Flowers becomes Tommy Hanson’s personal catcher after the kid is called up.

By Dan in NJ

November 17, 2008 7:11 PM | Link to this

By Corey

November 17, 2008 3:48 PM | Link to this

First off, CC Sabathia is the only free agent available that can be mentioned in the same sentence as Peavy. He was just offered 6 years @ 140 million (23.3 per). We would have Peavy for 5 years @ 81 million (16.2 per). The market for top tier starting pitching will be astronomical this year. Just wait. Burnett will probably get 16 - 18 mil per. Lowe & Dempster will probably fetch something just below that. Lowe wants a 4 year deal at the age of 35, and Dempster won’t put up those numbers again. These guys are not even close to the caliber of pitcher that Peavy is, yet their salaries will be just as much or more!

Hey Corey, don’t forget to ADD around 8-10 mil for a SS(decent one at that) to Peavys salary per year, plus prospects.

SO, HOW much would Peavy cost the braves now??? My math..that equals MORE then CC would be getting from the Yanks.

By JasonInFL (formerly ME)

November 17, 2008 7:13 PM | Link to this

Tommy Hanson and Tyler Flowers’ lines from today’s game:

Hanson’s line - 5IP, 1H, 0R, 2BB, 10SO)

Flowers’ line - 3-for-4 with a HR and 3RBI, BB

By ncscoots

November 17, 2008 7:17 PM | Link to this

take apage from the Rays book, find a Matt Garza type.

Braves have already done that. Last year. Need a new trick, that one’s been seen.

By DAP

November 17, 2008 7:18 PM | Link to this

moby grape you right about the differences between swisher and dunn. swisher strikes out less, usually hits for a higher average, and actually plays good defense. swisher might not be the offensive player dunn is, but i think hes probably almost as valuable overall as a baseball player. seriously.

By AdirondackDave

November 17, 2008 7:20 PM | Link to this

BUBDYLAN — Thanks, I appreciate your comment.

By AdirondackDave

November 17, 2008 7:23 PM | Link to this

Shoot, Flowers made an out in his last AB. Guess he’s not a .400 hitter. Tiime to trade him.

By gd from nz

November 17, 2008 7:24 PM | Link to this

Really interesting talk re all these free agent pitchers - here’s a prediction - Braves get none of Lowe, Dempster, Burnett, etc - they’ll simply get out bid and/or the targets prefer a team that is more likely to win. The reality is Braves are not likely to get signatures in this market anymore, they are not dealing from a position of strength relative to other teams who all want top pitching.

How about the discussion talks about trade scenarios to land other pitchers not named Peavy if they can’t get a top notch free agent - I think the braves will also have to reduce the calibre of pitcher they will likely get as well because its hard to see teams dealing away an ace.

I think the major needs to be filled are much more likely to be filled in the trade market which is where the braves have significant advantages over some of the teams with big cheque books.

By JasonInFL (formerly ME)

November 17, 2008 7:24 PM | Link to this

Boston.com is reporting the Stros may look to deal Carlos Lee…

By Dan in NJ

November 17, 2008 7:25 PM | Link to this

Just throwing this out there. How about offer CC yanks type money? Do you think he’d rather play for the Braves being that its an NL team? Then maybe Dempster at $15mil?? Demp. is the best option as for me, being that all other FA are injury prone. Plus maybe Dempster turned the corner and last year wasn’t a fluke. So, lets say $24ish mil for CC + $15ish for Demp = $39mil. Plus still have the farm for a trade for a big bat or two.

By Efrim

November 17, 2008 7:30 PM | Link to this

ncscoots

Your 7:07 was excellent. Braves management doesn’t want to trade top prospects, so, you gotta pay for talent. And as you said in your 7:17, you can’t make one of those trades every single offseason.

Braves can’t go into 2009 with Jurrjens, Campillo, Morton, Reyes, and Hanson as their starting rotation. They have to spend some money, right? Unless some of you folks think the Braves are going into 2009 with a 55 million dollar payroll. Isn’t happening. Braves are going to try and contend and win the NL East. I’m not saying the Braves should do exactly what the Dodgers do, but maybe to a lesser extent.

By BravesFanInRockies

November 17, 2008 7:34 PM | Link to this

El Ca-bay-o, eh? Well, dude can hit it a mile. And his range factor is much better than league average.

He’s signed for one more year than Magglio to a contract that pays roughly the same per season. Hmm.

By ncscoots

November 17, 2008 7:39 PM | Link to this

Heck, maybe the Peavy talks crank back up, and everybody gets happy. Simply put, Wren can’t afford to blink, and Towers can. If Wren blinks, it might mark him as not-quite-strong; Towers, on the other hand, can always say “John Moores made me do it.”

Or, more factually, Becky Moores, LOL.

By BravesFanInRockies

November 17, 2008 7:43 PM | Link to this

Dan in NJ,

The big problem with signing CC is that he’s going to demand six or seven years. I’m willing to bet whoever signs him will regret it along about year four or five.

If not sooner; he’s pitched more than 500 innings over the past two years and really looked gassed at times this season.

By Horse Hockey!

November 17, 2008 7:48 PM | Link to this

Workhorses carry the load!

Bulldogs try to bite Auburn football players..

By BrandonS

November 17, 2008 7:50 PM | Link to this

According to MLB.com’s Mark Bowman, the Braves made an offer to free agent lefty Will Ohman. At least ten teams are interested, so Ohman will continue to test the market. Bowman figures Ohman is looking for two or three years at roughly $4MM per.

Ohman, 31, posted a 3.68 ERA in 58.2 innings for the Braves this year after coming over in a trade with the Cubs. He held lefties to a .200/.257/.314 line.

By T to the D

November 17, 2008 7:56 PM | Link to this

No, no can’t submit being 260…

That said, great no trade WREN.

By Lew

November 17, 2008 8:01 PM | Link to this

Different Day same damn story. Smoltz and Husdson will pitch us to greatness this year and McCann will play first while Flowers catches. Sometimes I truly wonder.

By Philliesuk

November 17, 2008 8:01 PM | Link to this

Burnett is a much better choice than Lowe or Dempster. I long for the old days, when there was at least a remote possibility that we would go after someone like a CC Sabathia. For now, I think Burnett would be a solid #2 starter. A rotation with Burnett, Hudson, Hanson, and Jurrjens would be formidable. Add a #1 starter, and we have a championship-caliber rotation in 2010.

By sportsnut4

November 17, 2008 8:02 PM | Link to this

For all the latest MLB news check out

http://www.Total-E-Sports.blogspot.com

By McFann O –[zzz]

November 17, 2008 8:03 PM | Link to this

N Owl, F.N. Hale—

I do think McCann should have gotten some consideration for MVP. But I’m not gonna be depressed about it because I’m already depressed that we haven’t seen Beggar Ben the Wren since Thursday…this is looking like the third year in a row that I’ve lost one of my trained Wrens—he’s my last one. Maybe he’ll be back…

Anyway, back to the original topic: Mac and the MVP:

F.N. Hale What, to me, makes him worthy of a few votes is that he plays when most catchers don’t (day games after night games, etc.) and never wants a day off.

I feel the same way. He’d catch every day if he could.

My concern with him isn’t, as I’ve said before, the quality of his defense, but if he doesn’t lose some weight

Oh, but he has! As of Thursday, he’d lost 20 pounds since the season ended—going from 248 to 228! Did you see these photos? He’s looking good!

But we still need a BUC that cann hit at the Major League level. I think somebody that we could feel comfortable with for, oh, say…35 games?

By Efrim

November 17, 2008 8:07 PM | Link to this

JasoninFL

I saw that as well, but he is owed 74 million over the next four seasons. He is also a terrible defender. I’d pass on him as they will probably ask for a lot in return too.

By JasonInFL (formerly ME)

November 17, 2008 8:14 PM | Link to this

Efrim, yeah, it would have to be one of those deals where the Stros were willing to eat some of the contract. Is he really awful on D? I know he steals a few bases for a big guy…I haven’t really seen him play or VORP’d the heck out of his defensive stats either.

By Tomas

November 17, 2008 8:20 PM | Link to this

I think the perfect plan for Wren is to resign Will Ohman for 3yrs 11 million, Greg Norton for 1yr 1.75 million, John Smoltz for 1yr 2 million, Tom Glavine for 1 yr 1.5 million, and sign Aj Burnett for 4yrs 68 million, Michael Barret for 1yr 1 million, and Junichi Tazawa for 3 yrs 12 million. Then trade Kelly Johnson, Matt Diaz and Kris Medlen for Zack Greinke(3 million), and trade Jordan Schafer, Charlie Morton, and Blaine Boyer for Jermaine Dye(11 million). That sums up to a total of 45 million- the contracts of Kelly, Boyer, and Diaz.

CF Josh Anderson, 2B Martin Prado, 3B Chipper Jones, LF Jermaine Dye, C Brian McCann, SS Yunel Escobar, 1B Casey Kotchman, RF Jeff Franceour, Pitcher.

That is a good lineup(not as good as the lineup at the start of this year), but still very decent.

SP Aj Burnett, SP Zack Greinke, SP Jair Jurrjens, SP Jorge Campillo, SP Tommy Hanson, SP Junichi Tazawa, SP Tom Glavine, RP John Smoltz, RP Manny Acosta, LP Will Ohman, LP Mike Gonzales, LP Jeff Ridgeway, RP Peter Moylan, RP Rafael Soriano.

100% improved, with a lot of depth.

I think this team is definitely better than the Mets(even if they sign k-rod), and Phillies(if they don’t sign a better pitcher than Jamie Moyer, and don’t sign a replacement for Pat Burrel). The Marlins is the team I’m worried about with all that good young pitching, and definitely improved defense.

By Efrim

November 17, 2008 8:24 PM | Link to this

JasoninFL

I think he has decent speed for a big man, but I am pretty sure his fielding skills are lacking. He can sure rake, but 18.5 m annually isn’t something I would feel comfortable with the Braves taking on, unless like you said, they eat a decent portion. Which in that case, the Astros would want more in return.

By McFann O –[zzz]

November 17, 2008 8:26 PM | Link to this

Lew Different Day same [dang] story.

I know. There is now a big hole beaten into the ground where that dead horse was…

Yeah, I’m no good at twisting those sayings.

By Wayne

November 17, 2008 8:28 PM | Link to this

WOW, a blog! What has everybody been up to for the last 3-4 days? Raking leaves? Spending time with their families? Balancing your checkbook?

Gotta say that I am glad Frank Wren held his ground on the Peavy situation. If they call back, I hope the deal is less than the original offer.

As for other pitching options on the FA market, to be honest, I could get excited about whoever we end up signing, but right now, nobody excites me.

Versus paying 60-80 million bucks for guys that are truly worth 30-40 million, I would prefer to see us resign Mike Hampton, and take a couple of fliers on guys who have had injury issues; Sheets, Penny, Prior, etc.

I know that is not the sexy choices, but I just don’t see spending the money 4-5 years out on guys who could be out of baseball before their contracts run out.

Also, versus a guy like Carlos Lee, I would as soon make an offer for Adam Dunn.

I hope the Furcal talk is dead, now that we have retained our SS.

Sorry if I can’t get excited about trememdously overpaying for average pitchers.

By Wayne

November 17, 2008 8:29 PM | Link to this

Tomas Do you really think Smoltz will sign for 2 million, if he can pitch??

By Steve from OH

November 17, 2008 8:31 PM | Link to this

Rob Neyer’s take on the MVP voting this year.

By Efrim

November 17, 2008 8:34 PM | Link to this

Tomas

I think the perfect plan for Wren is to resign Will Ohman for 3yrs 11 million

Affeldt got 2 years and 8 million. I wouldn’t go higher than that for Ohman. I am actually hoping they offered him 2 years and 6 million.

By skull

November 17, 2008 8:36 PM | Link to this

Efrim, JasonInFL (formerly ME)

Is he really awful on D?

Stats don’t tell the whole story. I think the best mental image of his defense is STATUE OF LIBERTY. Hold glove up high & pray. If ball doesn’t magically land in glove, TROT after it. Runners on 1st go to 3rd on hits to LF (that’s him in LF) on his pop gun arm.

Nuff said!

By McFann O –[zzz]

November 17, 2008 8:37 PM | Link to this

Hey, Wayne! Wussup?

Some of us went over to Mark Bradley’s blog this weekend…didn’t spend quite as much time over there as we do on here, but if we got desperate, that’s where we went.

By Tomas

November 17, 2008 8:45 PM | Link to this

Wayne

Really I was just making a wild guess. If he wants 6 million, there is no way I think Wren should resign him. Maybe a 3 million dollar contract with incentives max.

Something similar to what Kerry Wood signed in 2007 for the cubs.

Wood signed deal for 2007 season worth $1.75M on 11/12/06- + he can earn $4.25M in bonuses based on games pitched, time spent on the active roster and games finished: a $300K for 40 games and up to a $500K for 60 games; a $200K for 25GF and up to a $500K for 50GF; $250K for 90 days on active roster- + he receives an award bonus if he wins the 2007 Comeback Player of the Year award.

And he was 30 at the time he signed that, Smoltz will be 42.

By JasonInFL (formerly ME)

November 17, 2008 8:45 PM | Link to this

skull, cool…haven’t really seen him play…do know that he is a large mammal!

By MNF

November 17, 2008 8:48 PM | Link to this

Hey you-all, the Atlanta Braves of the NFL are on the tv-watchin’ tube right now!

By Corey

November 17, 2008 8:48 PM | Link to this

Dan in NJ

Hey Corey, don’t forget to ADD around 8-10 mil for a SS(decent one at that) to Peavys salary per year, plus prospects. SO, HOW much would Peavy cost the braves now??? My math..that equals MORE then CC would be getting from the Yanks.

I’m all for getting CC, but lets compare apples to apples. If CC signs with the Yankees, his 2009 salary combined with Jeter’s comes to 43.3 million. Peavy’s 09 salary (11 mil) combined with say 10 million for Furcal is 21 million. Now, we could just sign Burnett for 18 million and keep Escobar (400k), but even that is 18.4 mil, and Escobar won’t play for 400k forever. Personally, I think Peavy/Furcal is worth 2.6 million more in 2009 than Burnett/Escobar.

By Yars

November 17, 2008 8:49 PM | Link to this

If KJ’s defense had been better, would Wren even consider trading him? I just can’t see Prado putting up even decent offensive numbers if he were the everyday 2B. He’s just not an everyday player. As for Frenchy, I’m sure he’ll be given another opportunity, but let’s just say he stinks again, heck I wish the guy the best of luck, but what is the backup plan if he stinks next season? How much time you think he’ll have to prove himself?

By Tomas

November 17, 2008 8:49 PM | Link to this

Efrim,

I think Ohman wants roughly 4 million per year and 3yrs. Affeldt will make 4 million per year, but 2 years. Ohman will make a little less than Affeldt but 1 more year.

By MNF

November 17, 2008 8:51 PM | Link to this

Oh my gosh. The QB of the NFL Atlanta Braves just threw his 2nd interception. There’s always next year, right Braves fans?

By Bubdylan

November 17, 2008 8:53 PM | Link to this

I really hope Ohman returns. A good bullpen is so, so important. I would like there to not be one single arm in the pen that we dread coming in. I don’t think you can over-estimate how helpful that would be. Even if they’re not all great; just all good.

All solid. No Resops. No experiments. All of them good enough that nobody has to lead the league in appearances, etc.

Not to mention, I don’t know if anyone else feels this way, but a good bullpen is exciting to watch, to me. I LOVE going into the 7th and 8th feeling we have an edge because of it. Lots of ripple effects. It takes pressure off the starters, obviously. It relaxes the hitters when they feel they don’t feel pressure to take a lead to the 7th every night. Relaxed hitters = more hits. I know I’m just spouting Bullpen 101 stuff, but… nobody’s spouted it in few days.

Can’t understand considering all those millions for starters and not spending aggressively on bullpen help. We sure paid the price last year.

By Wayne

November 17, 2008 8:54 PM | Link to this

McFann Sometimes a blog slowdown gives me a chance to catch up with life. Didn’t know Mark had a blog. Does he actually participate?

We had one of our favorite great-aunt’s, 92 year old Aunt Helen pass away last Thursday. Had a wonderful funeral service today; it is always better when they have lived a long and full life! Helen was a fixture at our house for many Sunday dinners over the past year.

But, my sister-in-law is not doing so well; fighting stage 4 lung cancer. She’s moved in with us about 2 weeks back, and “Mrs. Wayne” is her primary care provider.

Realizing that she will probably pass while living in our home, it will be much more difficult than what we experienced today, as she is only 52. I am also concerned about what affect this experience will have on our home and to the rest of our family. I have a 16 year old at home, and my oldest married son and wife live in our basement.

Interesting and challenging days ahead, for sure…

By JasonInFL (formerly ME)

November 17, 2008 9:00 PM | Link to this

Wayne, thoughts and prayers with you and your family. We lost my father-in-law to lung cancer on Jan 31st.

By MiamiBeachBravesFan

November 17, 2008 9:00 PM | Link to this

Going back to Lowe, the bigger issue is would the Braves offer three years at $12 million plus for a guy who may very well be on the downtick of an otherwise credible - not spectacular - major league pitching career? The Yankees are fond of old duffer pitchers; he’d be a fit there. As for Dempster, I have one word: walks. Bobby hates ‘em, I hate ‘em. Who’s to say Dempster regresses and reverts to being the walk machine he has been for the better part of his career. For tens of millions, it’s just not worth it.

I say, re-sign Hampton; we know who he is, warts and all. If Smoltz and Glavine can squeeze out one more season, I have no problems whatsoever with a back end rotation of Jair Jurrjens and one of these guys: Tommy Hansen-Charlie Morton-Jorge Campillo-Buddy Carlyle-Anthony Lerew-Jo Jo Reyes-James Parr-Jeff Bennett. At the end of next season, and for 2010, a front end of Hudson-Hampton-Jurrjens is a very good thing. If Hansen pans out, A Hudson-Hampton-Jurrjens-Hansen front four is a wonderful transition towards a youthful and HOMEGROWN rotation. Number five can be any of those other seven; for my money, I hope that Jo Jo Reyes grows up and starts listening to Smoltz, Glavine, and Roger McDowell and that Anthony Lerew is completely recovered from TJ surgery (I did not forget that gem Lerew pitched against the BoSox two seasons ago before he went on the DL).

Which is what Frank Wren wants anyway: to stay in-house and grow, like the Marlins and Rays, and buy only one or two parts during the off-season. In short, go young and let the kids pitch.

The one guy I would go after is Jermaine Dye - stat! He is an superb hitter, an excellent clubhouse guy, a veteran presence in the lineup, and a great community guy. That is a trade I would make, as long as Chicago doesn’t go all San Diego on us.

By N8

November 17, 2008 9:00 PM | Link to this

Wayne

Totally agree on Wren standing his ground and not caving to Towers’ demands.

That being said, your wishful thinking of getting Peavy for less the second “go round” is just that….wishful, IMO.

Here’s how I see it going down:

Wren will attempt to sign the big names (by default), not with CC in their name, and due to Peavy not being acquired, none will sign with us.

Then Towers will have Wren over the barrel because since the season ended, we’ve been hearing of the 40+ million surplus of cash, so Wren will severely over-spend for Peavy.

In the end it won’t be enough… until 2010 when Hanson has a year (or part of one) under his belt, JJJ is a bonafied Ace (or at least a true #2), and Hudson is back.

Which is what I’ve been saying all along: WAIT UNTIL 2010 and make our move then.

No sense selling the farm to try and catch the Mets and the Phillies in one off-season. 19 games is a LOT to make up, and I’m not sure JUST adding Jake Peavy is enough. Especially when it will cost us Escobar.

That is, unless Wren is assuming that Jake would go 35-0 next year. If that is the case, then he’s justified.

But all things considered, why on earth would Lowe, Penny, Burnett, Dempster want to come to Atlanta with Smoltz and Hudson on the shelf, Chipper not playing in more than 130 games for a few years, Bobby allegedly on his way out, and NO JAKE PEAVY freshly acquired?

The only thing that would do that is MONEY, and if Wren is forced to over-spend for the likes of those names…. no thanks.

The ace card in acquiring pitchers on the free agent market was having Peavy on board. Without that, NOBODY is gonna sign here.

If Wren wants to fix this thing, it’s gonna take some good old fashioned horse trading.

Which begs the question. Does Wren have 2 or 3 more Renteria for JJJ trades up his sleeve? If not, we’re in for a long year. Even if he does, at what cost to the farm system? Continue to stand your ground Frank.

Go Braves in 2010.

By Mike in LA

November 17, 2008 9:01 PM | Link to this

Tomas, I think you had great ideas about getting the players that would best help the Braves. I would just make a few minor tweaks though. Probably just two years and 7 or 8 mill for Ohman and a little more for smoltz, maybe 4 mill. I would also try to dangle Gorkys instead of Schafer to try and get Greinke because we’re they’re going to need Schafer in Atlanta next year if they hope on contending. I think Anderson is more of a fourth outfielder. Jermaine Dye is a perfect fit I think

By McFann O –[zzz]

November 17, 2008 9:07 PM | Link to this

Wayne—

He participates some…not like DOB or Ms. Rogers.

Condolences to you and you family! But you’re right, it’s “easier”, if you will, when the person has lived a long and full life. My Grandmother (Dad’s Mom) passed away in June, 2007 of a stroke. She was 84.

I’m sorry to hear about your sister-in-law, too! I’ll keep you and your family in my prayers!

By McFann O –[zzz]

November 17, 2008 9:11 PM | Link to this

Oh, and that’s true about Blog breakdowns…But either way, it’s nice to catch up on life.

I’ve always felt that’s what the off-season’s for…

(And here I am…posting like mad today. There are times when I can’t stop…like, if we’re talking about BH or something.)

By Daybed Wagmoe

November 17, 2008 9:12 PM | Link to this

elliwg6 and Steve from OH — you’re right, I stand corrected. You’re right, I was under the impression that the 50-inning threshold counted per season, not career. Thanks for clearing that up for me, and pass the salt cause I’m eating my words.

By MNF

November 17, 2008 9:13 PM | Link to this

By skull

November 17, 2008 9:13 PM | Link to this

JasonInFL (formerly ME)

Know this, the man is a hitting machine. Last season 28hrs, 100rbis. His 10 yr MLB averiage is also 28hrs, 100rbis.

Oh, btw, his 28hrs, 100rbis, in 2008 were in only 115 games, how about that? He matched his MLB average in only 115 games! Got to tip your hat to that.

But something is up when you can put up that type of average production, yet your team wants to send you off!

All of that said, he needs to go to AL. He’s a classic DH. The Angels could use that bat as a DH, however some of their DH time has to be for Vlad as a rest option. Maybe only 30 games a year in LF for the Halos.

By Lew

November 17, 2008 9:14 PM | Link to this

Wayne-We kidnapped the Mark Bradley blog and talked to him all weekend. He may not recover. He may need a Wurlitzer to revive him. He was a good host to some typical lunacy.

Tomas-Dude, what realm of fantasy gives you your salary projections? What part of Smoltz and Glavine not even beginning to throw until late December or early January are you not understanding? You do realize that they may never even pitch again and won’t know until they start throwing? Even if they are able to come back, if they don’t begin throwing until then, they will not be ready to go until May or June.

Also-Tazawa has never pitched professionally at ANY level-he’s playing in an industrial league in Japan that is roughly the equivalent of high A or Beginning AA ball. First of all, they are NOT going to sign him for $3-5 mil per season and even if they DO sign him, he likely won’t be pitching in the bigs for a while. They will send him to AA-maybe lower. They will offer him a Major League contract that guarantees him the same money even if in the minors and likely will give him a good signing bonus. The Braves are though to be the onkly team to offer him a major league contract., which would provide him some financial security.

Dude, you need to face facts that you CAN NOT count on Glavine, Hudson, Smoltz, or Tazawa in 09.

By richbrave

November 17, 2008 9:19 PM | Link to this

Sorry fans. As SCOOTS says, it goes with the territory. I’m not for that kind of money for a pitcher just north of career .500 myself. But its a fact of baseball that such deals get done, and if the BRAVES want to move off dead-center as WREN says, we’ve got to resolve this soon.

As for FLOWERS, BRAVES FANinROCKIES added a point I missed. He knows HANSON’s stuff. Hell, we had MILLER didn’t we.? Why not FLOWERS.? Not likely he’ll bat less than .083

By TennesseePaul

November 17, 2008 9:21 PM | Link to this

The Braves have no choice, unless you consider getting beaten bloody in 2009 an option.*

Acquiring an over priced FA has just as much potential to result in the Braves getting beaten bloody in 2009 and, with the three names being tossed around, resulting in a rotation of five youngsters running out there for nightly clubbings as those guys rest comfortably on the DL.
The biggest draw back is, acquiring these over-priced second tier pitchers, has the very real potential of producing this sorry result year after year until the contracts expire. Hopefully, if one of these guys does get signed, it’s only one of them and the real off-season acquisition is via a trade.

I’m think gd from nz is on to something with his 7:24 post.

I’m not saying the Braves should do exactly what the Dodgers do, but maybe to a lesser extent

To this degree of thinking the Braves should then be aiming for Sheets, Johnson and Penny? All of them would have to accept the Dodger style deal, lots of money over a short period. Dempster, Lowe and AJ certainly aren’t going to take short term deals. They’re all out there to get 4 or more.
But, as it did with the Dodgers, this is just slapping bandaids on a bad team. The Braves don’t have that many sure fire young pitchers with high upside on the horizon. 1 pitcher. That’s it.

By Steve from OH

November 17, 2008 9:21 PM | Link to this

Daybed, don’t sweat it dude. It’s all good.

By richbrave

November 17, 2008 9:22 PM | Link to this

And don’t go cheap on OHMAN. He may be funny in the clubhouse, but 1-He can count and 2- We need a solid lefty reliefer or set-up, and he proved his worth last year. Show him some respect. He’s in the house already. Sign him up. 4 mill - whatever. Goes with the territory - financially.

By Eric from MO

November 17, 2008 9:25 PM | Link to this

Tomas Burnett is only a horse when there is money to be made. So unless we only sign him to a one year contract there is no reason to sign him.

By TennesseePaul

November 17, 2008 9:28 PM | Link to this

Not likely he’ll bat less than .083

No. It takes a real special talent to achive that.

By skull

November 17, 2008 9:30 PM | Link to this

Just a thought here.

For those wanting to give Dempster $15M a year think about this. If he’s worth that why haven’t the Cubs resigned him then? They can easily afford that.

They also don’t want to go 5 years with him. That says volumes when the Cubs, just like the Yanks, RSox etc, didn’t jump on that. Why should the Braves then be willing do what the agent wants when those others aren’t interested at that cost?

By McFann O –[zzz]

November 17, 2008 9:30 PM | Link to this

Lew We kidnapped the Mark Bradley blog and talked to him all weekend. He may not recover.

Haha…prob’ly not!

It was fun, though.

By Tomas

November 17, 2008 9:33 PM | Link to this

If my 8:20 post happened I think the team definitely make it to the playoffs. CF Josh Anderson hits 270AVG/330OBP and 40SB 2B Martin Prado hits 305AVG/365OBP and 7HR. 3B Chipper Jones hits 315AVG 22HR 75RBI’s LF Jermaine Dye his 280AVG 25HR 90RBI’s C Brian McCann hits 290AVG 25HR 90RBI’s SS Yunel Escobar hits 290AVG 15HR 75RBI’s 1B Casey Kotchman hits 288AVG 15HR 72RBI’s RF Jeff Franceour hits 270AVG 17HR 80RBI’s

SP Aj Burnett 28 starts 15-10 with a 3.68 ERA SP Zack Greinke 32 starts 14-8 with a 3.75 ERA SP Jair Jurrjens 30 starts 15-12 with a 3.88 ERA SP Jorge Campillo 27 starts 10-10 with a 4.20 ERA SP Tommy Hanson 24 starts 9-3 with a 3.35 ERA SP Junichi Tazawa 12 starts 3-6 with a 4.70 ERA SP Tom Glavine 6 starts 2-4 with a 4.85 ERA SP Tim Hudson 2 starts 1-0 with a 3.35 ERA RP John Smoltz 40 games 4-7 with a 4.05 ERA RP Manny Acosta 60 games 3-3 with a 3.80 ERA LP Will Ohman 65 games 4-3 with a 4.05 ERA LP Jeff Ridgeway 15 games 2-0 with a 4.35 ERA LP Mike Gonzales 62 games 2-4 with a 3.35 ERA 20sv RP Peter Moylan 45 games 4-2 with a 3.98 ERA 5sv RP Rafael Soriano 38 games 2-1 with a 2.65 ERA 7sv

Those would be my projections for next year.

By Tomas

November 17, 2008 9:47 PM | Link to this

Lew,

First off dude Tazawa was offered that or more money. And second off, I just posted Smoltz, and Glavine in that list, only if they’re able to pitch.

Eric from MO,

I got it dude, you don’t like Aj, but I do. Who do you think the Braves should sign?Derek Lowe? Jon Garland? Ryan Dempster?(if you say dempster, i think he is a good choice, but not because he is better than Aj, it’s because he wont demand as much money).

By Steve from OH

November 17, 2008 9:47 PM | Link to this

Why not FLOWERS.? Not likely he’ll bat less than .083

Well, that’s not the question, is it? The question is, is the risk of potentially (probably) stunting T-Flow’s development worth the reward of improving our backup catcher spot? No, it’s not. Quite frankly, the kid’s still got a bit of work to do to make himself a decent defender behind the plate, and he’s not going to get that work in playing every 5th or 6th or whatever day. And for those who think he’s going to play 1B, you’re kidding yourselves. Not gonna happen.

The kid has played exactly zero games above class high-A. He has star potential. Why waste that to improve our BACKUP CATCHER, the 25th man on the roster? Doesn’t make sense. Pencil Sammons in for the job, and if we’ve got a bit of cash left after our wheeling and dealing is done, sign a member of the brotherhood of backup cathchers for a one-year deal. Keep Flowers in AA so he can, you know, work on his defense on a nightly basis and see you know, real pitching on a nightly basis.

By richbrave

November 17, 2008 9:50 PM | Link to this

10 PAUL:

Special indeed. Made me laugh. Good one.! Oh, and the stellar defense which offset that pathetic offensive display. Miller looked pretty good defensively here in RICHMOND, but that just highlights the difference between AAA and the majors. Its a BIG-G-G STEP up.

By Efrim

November 17, 2008 10:01 PM | Link to this

Tennesee Paul

To this degree of thinking the Braves should then be aiming for Sheets, Johnson and Penny? All of them would have to accept the Dodger style deal, lots of money over a short period. Dempster, Lowe and AJ certainly aren’t going to take short term deals. They’re all out there to get 4 or more.

But, as it did with the Dodgers, this is just slapping bandaids on a bad team. The Braves don’t have that many sure fire young pitchers with high upside on the horizon. 1 pitcher. That’s it.

No. I am mostly talking about the Dodger style of keeping all of their high ceiling prospects and young players and filling holes through free agency. Not like what the Yankees are doing this offseason, but to a lesser extent, obviously because the Braves total 2009 payroll won’t reach past 100 million.

It would be great if the Braves could get Dempster, Lowe or Burnett on short term Jason Schmidt like deals, but I know they can’t.

The Dodgers are a bad team because their free agent signings have been bad. People knew they were bad from the get go. I’m not sure if people would call the Braves signing Ryan Dempster or AJ Burnett bad from the start. Andruw Jones, Juan Pierre and Jason Schmidt were disasters…and everyone knew it before the ink dried.

Their philosophy however is one the Braves can use this offseason with 40-50 million to spend. Not saying the Braves should sign 2 starters, a LF/clean up hitter and Left handed reliever. But I want them to sign at least 2, if not 3. I think they should identify a large group of prospects from which not to trade from. Not just Hanson, Heyward and Teheran. Include Schafer, Freeman, Flowers, Locke, Rohrbough and Delgado there.

We have already heard DOB say that the Braves want to compete next year. Well, we aren’t going to stand pat with a 55 million dollar payroll and a rotation that consists of Jurrjens, Campillo, Morton, Reyes and Hanson. It isn’t going to happen. Sure, the Braves can go after the less expensive free agents. The Randy Wolf, Jon Garland, and Braden Looper’s of the world are certainly not going to bring this team to the top of the NL East.

By Mighty Have Fallen

November 17, 2008 10:15 PM | Link to this

Peavy isn’t coming to the Braves. Period.

Could anyone have envisioned 3 years ago that the Braves would be turned down by anyone once they targeted them for the team?

Peavy has been in Puerto Rico playing golf with the likes of Derek Jeter, Ryan Braun and a few other MLB pals. even though Axelrod won’t say it, and Towers won’t say it. Peavy has told some of his pals while in P.R. that he won’t go to the Braves. He wants to be a Cub. Towers is playing the Braves deal up so he can leverage them against the Cubs. Axelrod is playing along. (remember he and Towers are pals) Peavy is basically telling them it’s the Cubs or he’s not going anywhere. His no trade status allows him to do that.

In the end, Peavy’s no trade clause will push a deal to the Cubs for lesser return than the Pads would have received from the Braves. The Pads will essentially consider it a partial salary dump and accept the best deal they can get from the Cubs. Peavy holds all the cards and will force the Pads to accept the lesser deal to send him where HE wants to go rather than where the best deal for the Pads exists. Don’t you just love those no trade contracts?

Peavy says he wants to go to a team that will contend for the postseason. He obviously doesn’t see Atlanta as a viable option to fit that criteria.

So instead of the Braves being the force they were in seasons past, they have degenerated into a mere pawn in a powerhouse trade between two (maybe 3) other teams.

By David O'Brien

November 17, 2008 10:18 PM | Link to this

Greetings, folks. Good to be home, though it’s just about as cold here as it was in Kansas City.

Anyway, just wanted to pop in and let you all know that I’m hearing the Braves have talked to A.J. Burnett’s agent and might be poised to make an offer, if they haven’t already. We’ll keep you up to speed soon as I hear anything more.

I think they’re in about the same position with Lowe and Dempster, ready to make formal offers to each if they haven’t already. Might know more tomorrow.

Probably going to be a while before any of them signs, but you never know. Lowe, I’m pretty certain will take a good while, since his agent is Boras….

(As has already been noted here, Braves have made an offer to Ohman, who’s drawing plenty of interest, as could be expected for a veteran lefty reliever.)

By Bo

November 17, 2008 10:21 PM | Link to this

Lew we didn’t make Mark do anything he didn’t want to. Marks a great Sports writer but he’s no just assigned to cover the Braves like DOB. He does a great job covering all Sports. I thought he was Johnny on the spot. THANKS Mark !!

Lew, I love to read your blogs, they are very well taken. Hope you were just having fun with Mark. Go Braves , GO Wrens.

By Bruce's Pearl

November 17, 2008 10:24 PM | Link to this

Good to have you back,DOB!

By TennesseePaul

November 17, 2008 10:26 PM | Link to this

Efrim: Ryan Dempster or AJ Burnett bad from the start

This would depend on the terms of the contract. For instance, when Andruw was signed many said the deal was good because it was short term. But obviously that didn’t matter in the end. He sucked up space and money even if only for two seasons.

I think the Braves have always attempted to build from within and acquire veterans to fill the holes. However, a trade isn’t inherently bad. It doesn’t mean they will trade guys they don’t think they can afford to trade.

And yes, Wolf is not going to make this team a contender. Unfortunately neither would Dempster, Burnett, and Dunn. But those three would certainly take up money and years preventing future growth.

I know the Braves have stated they intend to win it all next year, but it isn’t very likely. And such a desire could hurt the team long term even if the players are acquired via Free Agency. I see a lot of lamenting on here that this desire to win in ‘09 could result in bad deals on the trade market… I’m just saying it could be equally bad in the Free Agent market.

But as has been posted by others above, I don’t think these pitchers will sign with the Braves. At least, not without the Braves out-biding some serious heavy spenders… and that is the potential pitfall in FA…

By David O'Brien

November 17, 2008 10:37 PM | Link to this

Tomas, Tazawa wasn’t offered that much in annual salary. That was a signing bonus amount, just like a draft pick would get (that’s basically what teams interested in him view him as — a high or very high first-round pick, and the signing-bonus offers reflect that.

His annual salaries would be low, like any young player.

By BravesFanChris24

November 17, 2008 10:45 PM | Link to this

Welcome back DOB.

I just have one question pertaining to Ohman. Since Braves offered him apparently a fair deal, if he was to get a better offer, do you think Ohman would still think about taking Braves deal instead? I really would love to see Ohman back.

By Eric from MO

November 17, 2008 10:47 PM | Link to this

Tomas you ask me who I think they should sign. I already stated. NOBODY!!! Look they all arent great. At best they are all average pitchers. So why pay top dollar for average pitchers. Are young guys may get beat to a pulp but would that be any different from last year, or with any of Lowe, Burnett, or Dempster. Proabably not. So what would I do, wait. Either wait for Towers to call back, which he will do or wait till next year and build for 2010. By doing that our young guys will get more experience and you will also find out which prospects are doing better and you will no more what you need for 2010. So into 2009 with a 55 million dollar contract and plan on losing because regardless we are going to lose. Losing isnt always horrible. We lost alot in 89 and 90. The Rays lost from the begining of franchise til this year but now they are built to win. So unless we get Peavy I say we do nothing and the only reason I say take Peavy at a reasonable price is because of a 2010 rotation of Peavy, Hudson, Jurrijens, and Hanson.

By Tomas

November 17, 2008 10:48 PM | Link to this

DOB,

I think I read that the signing bonus was worth 5-7 million? Is that correct?

By Eric from MO

November 17, 2008 10:53 PM | Link to this

Man I hope AJ dont take our offer.

By David O'Brien

November 17, 2008 10:59 PM | Link to this

Tomas, I was told it was about $5 mill or a little lower….

BravesFanChris24, I think Ohman would sign with Braves if the offer is close to what others are offering, but he’s not going to give them a big discount, as much as he likes the guys here and likes pitching for Bobby and Roger. You gotta figure if he gets a bigger offer from a contender and/or a team closer to his Arizona home, he’d probably inclined to take it.

By N8

November 17, 2008 11:03 PM | Link to this

DOB

You didn’t happen to be one of the 20,000 fans dressed as empty seats at Arrowhead yesterday, did you?

Len Dawson said on radio yesterday that regardless of “announced” attendance, it was the smallest crowd at Arrowhead for a Chiefs game since the mid-80’s.

Yikes.

Very painful to watch two teams (Falcons and Dolphins), who either had a worse record or the same record as the Chiefs last year, sitting at 6-4.

Hmmm. The common denomonator of the two is that they BOTH have new GM’s in place. Not saying JS did a poor job, or that parity in MLB is anything close to the NFL, but if having a new GM is a good Ohman (ha ha) for turning things around quickly, then I guess having Wren in charge might be a good thing.

I suppose the talent level (Chiefs are 30 million under the cap this year), has nothing to do with it, huh?

Anyhow, since nobody cares about KC sports (unless Francoeur going there is still being discussed among Braves fans), I’ll ask you to respond to my debbie downer post earlier in the evening.

Do you think my guess or angle on it being tougher for Wren to acquire one of the 2nd tier “big name guys” (Burnett, Lowe, Dempster, etc…) WITHOUT having Peavy on board already? Or do you think their chances are just the same either way?

WOW!!! Back-2-Back kickoff returns on the MNF game?? Are you kidding me?!?

By skull

November 17, 2008 11:03 PM | Link to this

Tomas

I thought it was $4M for a signing bonus with a major league contract which is guarenteed money even if in the minors—-However I could be wrong.

The Boston Hearald article didn’t list the dollars but says the RSox are ahead in the Tazawa pursuit.

To that end, I ask, based on what can they say the RSox are the leaders for this signing?

By mike

November 17, 2008 11:07 PM | Link to this

Why does Frenchy keep getting pass after pass after pass. He is nothing but a below average right fielder playing on a team that with him in right adding stats in meaningless at bats has not been close to playoff contention the last 3 years. Oh and to little Frankie Wren. Thanks for not pulling the trigger. It is so refreshing to know that the talent in the minors is on the way 3-5 years from now.

By JoeBrave

November 17, 2008 11:09 PM | Link to this

Let’s see, I think that before the Winter Meetings start on Dec.11 that 1. Jake Peavy will be an Atlanta Brave, 2.Ryan Dempster will be signed as well. and 3.a surprise say,an unknown name like Nelson Cruz will be acquired to play L.F. Will Ohman will be back, and Hampton as well IMO!!!! Just my Thoughts….. And Smart money says Orlando Cabrera will prolly be at Shortstop,or either a deal with the Angels for Erick Aybar will take place.

By skull

November 17, 2008 11:10 PM | Link to this

DOB, Tomas

Humble apologies if I muddled this up. DOB’s post wasn’t up when I started typing my post. Sorry, again!

But, my other question still stands, what is the RSox offer that has them leading in this signing?

By JoeBrave

November 17, 2008 11:12 PM | Link to this

And if not Dempster,look for Wren to pull a J.S. type move and get a Paul Maholm type pitcher.

By Mike

November 17, 2008 11:13 PM | Link to this

My Dream Braves Team 2009 (all based on current or past trade/signing rumors)

Rotation: Peavy (I think the Pads will come to their senses and we may get him for less) Burnett (sign) JJ Hampton (re-sign) Glavine (re-sign if ready) if not Campilio

Line-up: Furcal-SS (sign after Yunel is sent to Pads) Schafer-CF (or Anderson/Blanco if Schafer isnt ready) Chipper-3rd Ludwick-LF (trade KJ and someone else) BMac-C Frenchy-RF (I think he will be good next year) Kotchman-1st Prado-2nd

Bullpen: Gonzo Soriano Smoltz (re-sign & have another guy up until hes back) Moylan Ohman (sign) Bennett Campilio (if Glav is back) Acosta

Bench: Norton (re-sign) Infante Barrett (back-up catcher) Blanco/Anderson/Diaz (depending on whos ready and Schafer at CF

Thats it. Tell me what you think!

By JoeBrave

November 17, 2008 11:14 PM | Link to this

Me personally, I could see a potential starting five like this.. 1.Peavy 2.Jurrjens 3.Maholm 4.Hanson 5.Hampton

with an outfield of Cruz,Anderson,Mclouth infield of: Jones,Aybar,Johnson,and Kotchman

By Tomas

November 17, 2008 11:16 PM | Link to this

Eric from MO,

So you’re basicly saying the Braves need to get in rebuilding mode and forget about next season. I have to disagree with you on that. First off, this team has a bunch of young talent in the minors, and in the majors. Tommy Hanson, Jeff Locke, Charlie Morton, Kris Medlen, Jayson Heyward, Freddy Freeman, Gorkys Hernandez, Jair Jurrjens, Yunel Escobar, Kelly Johnson, Jordan Schafer, and more. Second, every year free agents are going to demand more money than the year past, so waiting another year won’t make free agents cheaper. And who are you waiting for. Next year the most appealing pitchers are John Lackey, Josh Beckett, and our own Tim Hudson, apart from those there is no one better than Ryan Dempster/Aj Burnett/ or Derek Lowe. Why wait? pay Aj Burnett 18 million per year instead of paying for 21 million per year on John Lackey(I don’t think the Braves will be willing to pay someone 20 million per year, that’s why Tex left).

If you say get Peavy, we’ll say goodbye to Escobar, Gorkys, Morton, Boyer, and more. No way dude I prefer to go after a guy like Greinke(who isn’t seeking a longterm deal according to kansacity star newspaper and might get traded, if he doesn’t sign an extension). Then sign a FA pitcher, and there are only three good fits for the Braves and those are Ryan Dempster, Derek Lowe, and Aj Burnett. And give the #5 spot to Tommy Hanson.

Why wait for 2010 when all you need to be competitive in 2009 is two good SP’s, and a power hitting left fielder, and you have 40-45 million dollars to spend on FA’s or trades.

By Bo

November 17, 2008 11:17 PM | Link to this

Tomas, Skull, one mlb.com had the Tigers with biggest offer for Tazawa. Its just a guessing game right now. DOB should have some info soon.

By N8

November 17, 2008 11:21 PM | Link to this

Eric from MO

“Look they all arent great. At best they are all average pitchers. So why pay top dollar for average pitchers.”

If you’ve paid any attention to me in the past week or so, you’ll realize that for the most part, I agree with you.

But allow me to play devil’s advocate on this generic (yet valid) question.

Why not? We’ve got money to burn. For starters it’s not our money. Secondly, it’s not like for the local fans that go to games, the Braves are gonna LOWER ticket prices if they don’t use all of that money. Third every team that has an extremly young team NEEDS veterans to take some of the load off.

We have Chipper and McCann (though not a seasoned veteran, he is fully capable of anchoring the middle of the order), on the offensive side of the ball. But this pitching staff is in dire need of a couple of guys that can eat some innings.

I’m OK with signing at least one of those guys, and even two (provided they have interest in coming to Atlanta), if it is not for contracts that hinder the Braves from making moves in the future.

As good as Glavine, Smoltz and Avery turned out to be in 91, they NEEDED Leibrandt to be their leader in the rotation. That 91 team had veterans in the bullpen as well.

What I don’t want, (and will assume that Wren won’t be reckless) is to severly overpay (which is certainly a relative term in 2008) for any of those guys. I don’t really care about the dollars per year, as much as the years themselves.

For instance, signing a guy like Burnett to a 3 year deal at about 15-18 million per year wouldn’t be that horrible, would it?

By the time that contract runs out, Chipper might be done. Which is about the same time that some of the young guys might be eligible for arbitration.

I’d rather have Wren overpay in dollars for a couple of those guys, than to overpay in prospects for Peavy.

Provided that Escobar isn’t mentally shot from being mentioned as the centerpiece of the proposed trade, I’m very pleased that he’s still a Brave.

Wouldn’t you rather have two guys in the mentioned group of pitchers (even though risky), then give up all those prospects and Escobar for Peavy and then STILL have to go overspend (in either dollars or MORE prospects), for a replacement for Yunel? I would.

Provided Hudson has no setbacks and is back to normal (for him) by 2010, JJJ doesn’t blow out his arm, and Hanson is the real deal, that is STILL a pretty damn good trio of starters heading into the 2010 season. Add to that if we land Burnett or Lowe and they remain healthy that’s an EXCELLENT four man rotation.

That’s not even taking into consideration the fact that maybe, just maybe Morton or Jo-Jo figure it out in the next year.

Hell, what about a guy like Harrang? Look at Garza. In the same season that the Twins traded Johan they found Garza to be expendable due to being inconsistent early in his career (sound familiar?).

Believe me, I live in Twins territory, and the issue that fans had with the Twins management last off-season was NOT dumping Johan, it was giving up too soon on Garza.

Add to that, every year there seems to be one pitcher that the Braves “find” on the scrap heep (Campillo) that steps up. Imagine how useful and affective Campillo would have been as the 5th starter, had there been somebody to eat innings and take the “load” off of the young guys.

Don’t underestimate the damage that not having Glavine and Smoltz had on not only the pitching staff in terms of HELPING the young guys and a “rookie” like Campillo.

I have a feeling that Wren has a trade up his sleeve that we don’t see coming. Maybe not to the extent of Renteria for JJJ, but lets give our scouts the credit they deserve in finding guys out there that can help.

That being said, I’m OK with “sacrificing” 2009 (not neccesarily giving up the season - but just not going all out to chase the Phillies and Mets), for the future beyond next year.

But either way, Wren has to acquire SOME help, doesn’t he?

By Tomas

November 17, 2008 11:23 PM | Link to this

Skull,

The last I heard the Braves made on unknown offer who was guessed to be in the range of 4-7 million dollars, and the Braves were the front runners. I also heard he was suppose to make his decision after the Internacional league(something like that) which end this week.

By David O'Brien

November 17, 2008 11:23 PM | Link to this

N8, no on Arrowhead. I was at Memorial Stadium in Lawrence for our butt-whipping administered by the rugged Longhorns on Saturday. Unlike Sunday, which was a beautiful, sunny day near 60 there, on Saturday it was in the mid-30s for the 11:30 a.m. KU start, with a north wind blowing and some light snow flurries.

By Bo

November 17, 2008 11:32 PM | Link to this

While we are guessing; I’d say KJ will be with Cards, and Ludwick will be a Brave. Orlando Hudson will play 2nd base for Braves ,Kyle Fransworth will be back with Braves. Frenchy will be in KC and Ted will buy the Braves back…you get it?

PS We’ll make DOB the GM. He would be better than most I know. U get it?

By Tomas

November 17, 2008 11:53 PM | Link to this

Bo,

I read the tigers were interested but thought there was too much competition, and that his price was out of they’re, but that was like 2 weeks ago.

By N8

November 17, 2008 11:55 PM | Link to this

DOB

I din’t think so, but I had to ask (about Arrowhead).

Don’t you have a sister that lives in KC? Or is it a brother?

I had plans of taking my sons to Arrowhead this year for a game, just so they and I (I’ve never been there - been to two Chiefs/Vikings games at the HHH Metrodome), to get the Arrowhead experience.

But it appears that I missed the boat on that. LOL! So I’m glad I didn’t waste the money on tickets.

I tell you what, you guys might think that I’m the king of negativity (I’m talking to you Lew), but I’ve been listening to KC radio for the entire football season, and some of the callers that call in to the radio stations make me look like a ray of sunshine.

Damn, are NFL fans of losing teams psycho or what? They want Carl Peterson’s head on a stick down there. Radio stations are calling for his firing, Jason Whitlock has been calling for it for over a decade and the fans that normally want to tell him to shut his pie-hole are starting to agree with him. Up is down, down is up and people are turning on the Chiefs.

Sad day in KC when the fans are looking forward to Royals baseball in November. Yikes.

Hey, I meant to ask you the other day, but forgot.

Is there any truth to the alleged rumor the other day that Ted mentioned in an interview that he was interested in raising enough money to buy back the Braves? That would definitely be a good thing, IMO.

And if so, is there any sign that LM has any interest in still selling them when they are allowed to do so, when they have maximized their “tax breaks” they got by transferring ownership the way they did?

On a side (but similar) note, it appears that Mark Cuban will now have a LESS THAN ZERO percent chance of owning the Cubs, huh?

By BravesFanChris24

November 17, 2008 11:57 PM | Link to this

Thanks for the input DOB. I hope he does re-sign, but if not, I’ll still root for him wherever he’d go. He’s an awesome guy.

I said this weekend on Mark’s column page, that I am more excited now with more possibilities than I was when it seemed like Peavy was coming to ATL. I wonder how everything will shape up. I for one think Wren won’t disappoint. It may not come in the form a lot of us want, but I think he’ll do the best he can to make Braves competitive next year and beyond.

By Lew

November 17, 2008 11:57 PM | Link to this

Bo-Just saying that dealing with the likes of the Denizens on a regular basis can be kind of like the Jerry Springer Show with DOB as Ringmaster. It was probably a somewhat different experience for Mark Bradley having his normal routine shattered by this group of revelers. He did quite well, though and I think he enjoyed it. Not too sure where you’re getting any negative vibe from anything I’ve said.

By skull

November 18, 2008 12:02 AM | Link to this

JoeBrave 11:14 PM

*could see a potential starting five like this.. 1.Peavy 2.Jurrjens 3.Maholm 4.Hanson 5.Hampton

with an outfield of Cruz,Anderson,Mclouth infield of: Jones,Aybar,Johnson,and Kotchman*

A few questions for you please.

1. While I think I would love to see McLouth in the Braves OF/lineup on a regular basis I don’t believe you mentioned what we would have to give up to get him & Maholm, please LMK.

2. Why would the Pirates trade an all star OF, still very affordable along w/Maholm, who also is still affordable? And since you didn’t list Francoeur, is he suppose to be in the trade to the Pirates? I can’t envision any such deal occurring.

3. Anderson in the lineup everyday? He’s a possible 4/5 OF, not everyday!

4. This is where I really part ways with you. Why E. Aybar? What made you pick his name up? I spend much time in Cali during the year & catch many Angel games (caught all 3 vs Braves this past summer). If you want to consider a trade with Angel then look at Macier Izturis. He had nearly the same exact stats as Ayber but in 20 less games, was on DL w/Hand injury for awhile. Did you watch the playoffs at all. Ayber was lost!!!! His playoffs the past 2 years are a repeating dismal .105/.105/.105. Yes, that reads correctly .105/.105/.105.

5. Back to the Pirates, why would they want to trade with us again? I read at the end of the regular season that one of their moves during the off season would be to unload LaWhiff to anyone who might take him. Yes, 25hrs, 80 rbis might look good to someone who doesn’t mind a whiff once every 4 ABs.

Just some random questions I had, not attacking you. Just differ with you on this.

By Eric from MO

November 18, 2008 12:03 AM | Link to this

Tomas other than Escobar, Jair, and McCann none of them young guys has done anything at the Major League level. Also if Towers calls back I dont think we should give up that much. There arent going to get a better offer than a future all-star short shop, Gorkys and Charlie Morton. I wouldnt include anyone else. If we dont get him then we have more money to spend next offseson. You said next years FA will demand more money. Well all of the guys you named are better that the ones this year. The FAs are just not that good this year. Also you say they will demand more money, maybe. I have heard several experts saying that these huge salaries may start going down with the poor economy. Alot of experts are saying that agents may be telling their clients to not wait too long to sign because offers may become much less. Next year FA may demand more money but I say its about a 50 to 50 chance that they will actually be cheaper.

N8 Im not going to argue too much with you since you already said for the most part you agree with me. But you asked why not to spend money cause we have money to burn, well Im assuming if we are going to have a 90-95 million dollar payroll this year we will have it next year and I would rather have that money next year to spend because the FAs just arent that good and next year they may be alot better.

I realize that Glavine, Avery, and Smoltz needed veteran leadership. That is another reason if they get a chance at Peavy I say take it. Also if, and I know its an if, Glavine and Smoltz comeback that would give them the veteran leadership.

As for you saying Wren needs to accquire some help, yeah I agree but I would try with the FA being week I would maybe try someone at a one year deal. That way we will get that money back next year and I agree Wren may have a trade up his sleeve.

By Bubdylan

November 18, 2008 12:11 AM | Link to this

Peavy says he wants to go to a team that will contend for the postseason. He obviously doesn’t see Atlanta as a viable option to fit that criteria.

So instead of the Braves being the force they were in seasons past, they have degenerated into a mere pawn in a powerhouse trade between two (maybe 3) other teams. -Mighty Have Fallen

This doesn’t seem too likely to me. I saw Towers quoted today telling Cashman that he wasn’t going to get involved in discussions with the Yanks cuz he hadn’t gotten Jake’s approval for that.

Now, if Jake’s going to allow pawns to be drawn in just to get the Cubs offer up, why would he stiff-arm the most willing-to-release-prospects club in the game?

Also, Towers being up front with Cashman about their chances is a decent indication that he was being up-front with Wren - at least about the possibility of Jake coming here.

By brian

November 18, 2008 12:12 AM | Link to this

Welcome back DOB - I was in withdrawal after we brought the blog down with no new blog.

Will the Braves make offers all at once saying the first 2 to accept will be honored or will the Braves go 1 pitcher at a time?

In my dream world, any chance if the Braves land Burnett for example it may further convince Peavy that Atlanta will contend where he may push the Padres to rethink the Braves trade?

I am glad that Wren stood his ground and did not mortgage the farm - it is not worth it.

By nolie

November 18, 2008 12:19 AM | Link to this

For instance, signing a guy like Burnett to a 3 year deal at about 15-18 million per year wouldn’t be that horrible, would it? N8

the problem is that I doubt anybody but Lowe will be willing to sign a contract as short as three years. Burnett will be offered longer ones IMO .Dempster likely will too.I could live with 3 years on any of them but I don’t see that happening.

By N8

November 18, 2008 12:23 AM | Link to this

Eric from MO

Agree with you on the “one year” deal offers to somebody. I don’t think that Burnett and the likes are gonna take a one year deal.

My thoughts on them, is to kind of “gamble” on them. If they are mediocre and eat innings (taking pressure off the young guys), that’s OK. If they get hurt and we eat the money, that would suck, but if they were signed on 2 or 3 year deals, it’s not the end of the world.

The flip-side, is that if they have great years (or two), then we’re in the mix next year and poised to make a serious push for 2010.

Agreed on Smoltz and Glavine being able to be the veteran presence if healthy. Just to risky to go in with them as the only veteran options.

Let’s just assume that Hudson and Smoltz will at the very least be “around” the team in the dugout while rehabbing and will provide some leadership that way, but the innings would help more.

Which is why I think the trade market might be the better route. Perhaps I loosen my stance on Peavy, but I’d still rather get some guys like a Garza type of guy that another team has given up on, that still has upside, and is still under control (at the worst, arbitration eligible), for a few years.

Then, (like it seems you agree with), when we are ready to make a “real” push, there is still money in the tank to burn on the missing pieces.

Right now, we have too many missing pieces to fix it all with only 40 million dollars, IMO.

I’d rather Wren trade for 4 or 5 guys making around 5-10 million each, that are significant upgrades over current players/pitchers we have (including OF, Starting pitchers and relievers), than have him trade for a guy and sign two more guys making 15 million each.

Quantity of good players vs. a trio of GREAT players.

Though I think with Hudson out (if Wren is serious about legitimately competing in 2009), we NEED at least one more dominant pitcher in the rotation.

On paper our rotation is 1.5 deep in true talent (JJJ and maybe Hanson). Our bullpen could be anywhere from incredible to injury riddled and horrible, if he stands pat on what’s already in place.

If Soriano, Gonzo and Moylan are healthy (add to that if Smoltz is in the pen), it could go from worst in MLB, to one of the better units.

Our outfielders combined for 27 HR last year. Yikes.

But there is enough talent at other positions to carry the offense. As week as our power output was, even after Tex was traded, the offense was NOT the issue and that was without Kotchman doing much of anything. Kotchman’s glove is worth keeping around, if he hits 15-20 HR and has around 90+ RBI, it’s a bonus at his salarly, IMO.

We need depth to cover for Chipper and Escobar (if still here), needs to take the next step.

When the next wave of OF power bats come around, we’ll be set there so some stop-gaps are needed.

Not sure if anybody has posted this yet, I just saw it tonight for the first time, but here is a link from si.com on the NL East hotstove report, I’ll add the segment about what they think the Braves should do this off-season, which I agree with 100 percent.

What Should They Do?

“Staying the course would be the wise choice. Giving up Escobar and prospects for Peavy would be a mistake; Atlanta could be poised to begin a strong run centered around home-grown players a few years hence. They should focus efforts on acquiring Tazawa, bringing back Hampton on a one-year deal and letting top prospect Tommy Hanson compete for the fifth spot in the rotation this spring with the team’s other young starters. Regarding the outfield, Gregor Blanco and Josh Anderson can hold the fort in center field until Schafer is ready to take over — which might be sooner rather than later — and the team has little choice but to hope for the best with the enigmatic Jeff Francoeur in right. Bringing in a bat like Juan Rivera to play left would make sense.”

si.com link

By N8

November 18, 2008 12:24 AM | Link to this

nolie

Agreed.

By JoeBrave

November 18, 2008 12:26 AM | Link to this

NAV LMP .276 27 105 20 29 2 1 1 9 36 15 28 9 1 .369 .343 .712 These are The great Jordan shafers numbers in Mexican Ball.1 hr in 105 ab’s. Why in the blue hell is this kid touted so damned highly..A lot like last Year when everyone was creaming on themselves over one Brent Lillybritches… Skull Mclouth was a typo, I meant to say Frenchfry ,and Aybar doesn;t have to be spectacular, just play good defense, I chose him over Izturis due to Range and Health issues..

By R1U

November 18, 2008 12:29 AM | Link to this

Peavey has too much liability in his reliability for what they are asking for…next deal please

By Chop Chop

November 18, 2008 12:30 AM | Link to this

N8,

If that’s what the Braves should do, why is Bobby Cox going to be back? Dude’s shipping out after ‘09. There’s no reason to have him coaching another subpar club. I’d rather see a younger guy take over in order to get his system in place for the big run Wren is banking on.

By JoeBrave

November 18, 2008 12:34 AM | Link to this

What I meant is nothing is a lock this time of Year, but i do Get really tired of seeing J.Shafer,B.Lillibridge,AND the likes hearalded as the next freakin Babe Ruth.. Shafer please this kid ain’t that damn good, he is another in the long lines of goofy looking prospects the Braves have over-hyped. This Punk will be worse than Lillybritches, anyone remember Brad Komminsk????? Heyward Yes I have seen this Kid in Person, He is everything billed… Freeman as well,But Jordan Shafer, people Please, Luis Sumoza is a better player than Shafer will ever be!!! Just stop, with the Shafers,and the likes This is big boy Baseball, not the dang Pony Leagues!!! By the way Skull, Why wouldn’t Pitt do something like, JoJo, Parr,B.Jones,and the Wonderking Shafer for Mclouth,and Maholm?? Just asking

By JoeBrave

November 18, 2008 12:37 AM | Link to this

Juan Rivera??? I thought they wanted someone with Power, Juan rivera is not I repat NOT a POwer Hitter!!

By skull

November 18, 2008 12:46 AM | Link to this

*JoeBrave *

Skull Mclouth was a typo, I meant to say Frenchfry

OK, typo accepted, all’s cool, thanks for the reply.

By JoeBrave

November 18, 2008 12:47 AM | Link to this

2008 89 256 31 63 13 0 12 45 112 16 33 1 1 .282 .438 .246
Rivera’s season totals… Notice a .246 BA,and 12 yes that’s right 12 hr, damn Rocco Baldelli could do that, at half the price!!!

By Bo

November 18, 2008 12:57 AM | Link to this

Lew No problem with me… I thought Mark was just trying to help us bloggers out with DOB gone. Nothing negative.

By skull

November 18, 2008 1:00 AM | Link to this

*JoeBrave *

Just saw the 12:34

By the way Skull, Why wouldn’t Pitt do something like, JoJo, Parr,B.Jones,and the Wonderking Shafer for Mclouth,and Maholm?? Just asking

I believe many teams would take a chance on Schafer. As far as JoJo, B.Jones & Parr. I just don’t believe they overwhelm anyone enough to bring back a decent P like Maholm & an all star such as McLouth.

But, that’s just me. Who knows? I would like to see those 2 come to the Braves, just feel the return that the Pirates want would have to be much higher. Would FW be interested in those 2?

By Tomas

November 18, 2008 1:02 AM | Link to this

Eric,

Think about this. Josh Beckett is going to resign with Boston, because they have a lot of money, and I don’t think they’re stupid enough to let him go. Our free agents next year will be Mike Gonzales, Rafael Soriano, Omar Infante, and Tim Hudson(he and the team have a mutual option worth 12 million). So there is really one good quality pitcher in the FA market next year. John Lackey, and after him the only pitcher that is considered an average pitcher is Brett Myers. My guess is the Braves will not be able to outbid the Mets, Yankees, Redsox, Cubs and Angels for John Lackey.

This year: CC Sabathia, Ben Sheets, Aj Burnett, Derek Lowe, Ryan Dempster, Oliver Perez, and Andy Pettite.

If Towers were to call and agree to trade Peavy for Yunel, Morton, and Gorkys perfect we will have an ace for the next 5 years, but right now it appears that wont happen. I still think Wren should sign one more pitcher and we have a very good shot at the world series.

Zack Greinke or Jake Peavy either one combined with AJ Burnett, Derek Lowe, or Ryan Dempster would make a great 1-2 punch. And after those two, it just gets younger with Jair Jurrjens, Tommy Hanson, and Jorge Campillo.

All I’m saying is that I don’t think this team needs to wait another year like you have implied. With 2 good SP’s, and a big power bat in LF, what else does this team need. They have a lot of depth, and some very good prospects in the minors.

By jed

November 18, 2008 1:08 AM | Link to this

obviously, i’d love to see us acquire jermaine dye for LF, or even ludwig. but i think our priority this off-season has got to be pitching, and we need to be spending our money on two top-of the-line starters. so here’s the thing:

if we can’t get 2 SPs AND a guy like jermaine dye, why not consider moving KJ back to LF and acquiring a strong hitting 2b? i could even see signing renteria and moving him to 2b. main thing is that there’s a real possibility that KJ has a breakout year this season and winds up hitting .300/20/90. at the same time, if renteria returns to form (and i’d be confident enough to gamble on that), he could wind up hitting .290/15/85.

i know KJ wasnt stellar in LF, but he’s not stellar at 2b either. renteria could handle 2b fine, i’m sure, and be an upgrade on KJ there.

you’d save money this way too. money that could go into signing SPs and will ohman.

i dont know if it’ll be 2009 or 2010, but i just think KJ’s on the verge of breaking out, and when he does, he’s gonna be a very good hitter for a very long time. that, and i want PITCHING!

By brian

November 18, 2008 1:08 AM | Link to this

I would say that the bar has been set for resigning Ohman. Both lefty relievers - in NY and Affeldt signing with the Giants were for $4 million per year for 3 years and 2 years respectively. Will the Braves be willing to pay that for Ohman?

By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)

November 18, 2008 1:17 AM | Link to this

I’ll be stunned if the Cardinals trade Ryan Ludwick for Kelly Johnson. This proposed trade sounds more like a rumor than anything else.

Albert Pujols is the best position player in the N.L., He might be the overall top position player in baseball.

No, I take that back. Pujols is the best position player in the game, bar none. The guy is a freak, an offensive monster and he has been right from day one.

No player in the history of the game of baseball has started out like Pujols has. The man has been a machine for eight straight seasons. Pumping out 30 HR, 100 RBI, .300 BA, 1000 OPS seasons like clock work.

There are pure sluggers and pure hitters. Albert Pujols is both. So was Ted Williams.

To think that Pujols is just 28 and already has one World Championship, Two MVP awards, one gold glove, the 2001 ROY award, the 2003 Hank Aaron award, the 2008 Roberto Clemente award, the 2003 MLB player of the year award, the 2004 NLCS MVP, four silver sluggers and seven all-star appearances is simply astonishing.

Pujols consistency through the first eight years of his career is unparalleled. A-Rod had better keep playing. Other wise, the El Hombre in St. Louis just might eclipse him.

By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)

November 18, 2008 1:28 AM | Link to this

Juan Rivera projects to hit 23-25 HR’s with 85-90 RBI in 500 at bats. Yes, he is a power hitter and an even better defensive player in the OF.

By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)

November 18, 2008 1:44 AM | Link to this

Bargain basement, anybody?

Ever heard of Charlie Zink? I didn’t think so. He’s a 29 year old RHP. The knuckeballer went 14-6 with an ERA of 2.84 for the Red Sox AAA Pawtucket club in 28 starts. He also won 11 games in 2007. Potential inning eating fifth starter’s don’t get any cheaper than this.

How about Nelson Cruz. The 28 year old outfielder clubbed 44 HR’s with 125 RBI between AAA and the Texas Rangers big league club while batting .337. He’s got a good glove, great arm and just needs the right opportunity.

Scott Thorman is a free agent…..I’m kidding, LOL.

I am concerned about one thing. It’s November 18th and the Braves have worked hard, but as of yet have accomplished exactly Z-I-L-C-H.

By Moby Grape

November 18, 2008 1:49 AM | Link to this

Juan Rivera projects to hit 23-25 HR’s with 85-90 RBI in 500 at bats. Yes, he is a power hitter and an even better defensive player in the OF.Coach

If he is all that good, why has he never played a complete season even once in 8 years?

By skull

November 18, 2008 1:50 AM | Link to this

JoeBrave

2008 89 256 31 63 13 0 12 45 112 16 33 1 1 .282 .438 .246 Rivera’s season totals… Notice a .246 BA,and 12 yes that’s right 12 hr, damn Rocco Baldelli could do that, at half the price!!!

Joe, I really have to call BS on that post. Please notice that Rivera’s stats are based on 89 games played (he was coming off injured previous year & still has some lingering problems early on). Of those 89 games, 16 were only 1 AB. So he actually only played in 73 games with 256 ABs. In that case 12 hrs is decent. See Coach’s post after yours about projections for a full season.

Now about that 2nd statement. All of the rumors etc I’ve seen on Rivera say he will go for about 2 yrs for 3/4M total. This past season he got $2.025M. You say Baldelli can do that for half the price???????

Check the facts Joe. Rocco’s contract was for $6M in 2009 & $8m in 2010. That’s why the Rays didn’t option up on him with his current health problems. However, the Rays are supposedly interested in bringing him back at a lesser amount but it’s going to be much more than $750K to $1M which is half of what Rivera will pull down! Rocco will not be signed for half of what Rivera will get, just not happening.

By scottbravesfan

November 18, 2008 1:50 AM | Link to this

Braves should make a run at Dye if he really is available. Simple as that.

By nolie

November 18, 2008 2:28 AM | Link to this

Braves should make a run at Dye if he really is available. Simple as that.Scott

I don’t know, he is one of the worst defensive outfielders in baseball. Good hitter when he’s healthy no doubt, but he has also had a lot of injury problems over the years. I have mixed feelings about him right now. I guess it would depend on his contract and how much we had to give up. Since he ain’t cheap IIRC, I’d hesitate to give up a lot in prospects to get him.

By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)

November 18, 2008 3:09 AM | Link to this

Moby Grape, why had Ryan Ludwick never played a full year until his sixth season in the majors?

I know the answer to that one, do you?

It’s the same answer that applies to Juan Rivera.

By Bravo Nam

November 18, 2008 4:30 AM | Link to this

DOB

Welcome back…missed you and the blog! Looking forward to hearing your inside news as it unfolds.

By Nocturnal Owl (N Nine)

November 18, 2008 4:57 AM | Link to this

I thought Mark was just trying to help us bloggers out with DOB gone

Glad he helped. Probably all time high on hits for a day…THX Mark!!!

Looking for early bird specials any pitchers available for cheap at this time?

Ohman, will you please sign the dotted line nothing has to “run its course”

Damn you Peavy………………..

By semiballcoach

November 18, 2008 5:49 AM | Link to this

waiting on DOB and a new blog is like waiting on santa

By Efrim

November 18, 2008 7:07 AM | Link to this

Tennesee Paul

And yes, Wolf is not going to make this team a contender. Unfortunately neither would Dempster, Burnett, and Dunn. But those three would certainly take up money and years preventing future growth.

Well, I don’t think they’ll go after Dunn. As far as Burnett and Dempster go, what future growth are they holding up? The Braves have one starter I would feel comfortable with next season - Jair Jurrjens. They aren’t going into next season with a 60 million dollar payroll. It isn’t happening. There isn’t great free agent starter options next year when they might be in a better position to contend. It’s John Lackey…..and that is about it. And do you think Lackey is going to just walk over to the Braves? Getting one of Burnett, Lowe or Dempster will be hard enough.

I’m not saying the Braves should or shouldn’t “go for it” like Frank Wren has said they are going to do. I woud probably lean towards no, because I think the Phillies are far ahead of us(obviously), and I think the Mets are going to solve their bullpen issues this offseason. So, it is going to take a lot to change the results of 2008, which was us looking up at them.

But I will say, the Braves aren’t going into the season with a 60 million dollar payroll. So, what should they do? Sign Mike Hampton, Juan Rivera and Braden Looper and call it a day? I guess that doesn’t block any potential starters or position players for too long and our payroll would be about 70-75 million. But we know that isn’t going to happen, and I have come to the conclusion that although the Braves have a top 10 farm system, a lot of that is in Single A. We don’t have to block a corner OF or CF like Heyward and Schafer, but we certainly shouldn’t bank it on Cole Rohrbough and Jeff Locke who haven’t thrown 50 innings in High A yet.

So, we really don’t have any pitching prospects that we should be worried to block. Braves need to fill their rotation with established starters.

By JC from UT

November 18, 2008 7:12 AM | Link to this

DOB: Welcome back and hope you had a good vacation. Cople questions; if KJ is traded for pitching or a left fielder would FW be interested in signing one of the following to one year deals to play 2nd: Mark Grudzulanek, Ray Durham or David Eckstein. Granted they do not have the power of KJ (maybe Durham still does) but all 3 play good defense and know how to move a runner along and would not cost too much. Also this is the 3rd winter I have asked this question: could Aaron Boone be signed to back up the corner positions? He could also give whoever the 2nd baseman is a rest and has a little power off the bench.

By JC from UT

November 18, 2008 7:20 AM | Link to this

EFRIM: I agree with you 100%. All the Braves good talent is at least 2-3 years away. It would be great though if Heyward really took off and was in RF within a year. I know wishfull thinking but Furcal did it not so many years ago. As far as pitching goes Hanson is obviously closest to the bigs so that leaves us with Jair and Hanson and a lot of ??’s.

By JasonInFL (formerly ME)

November 18, 2008 7:25 AM | Link to this

DOB, good to have you back. Much thanks to Ms. Rogers for the new blog as well as to Mr. Bradley for letting some take over his.

Isn’t it becoming clearer by the minute that Towers messed this thing up with the Braves? I mean, the only team he is actively talking to is the Cubs…and he openly admits they may have to bring in a 3rd or 4th team to even make that happen. He is also publicly saying he didn’t think that Peavy would approve a trade to the Braves because the Braves do not give out no trade clauses. Is he trying to CYA for screwing up with the Braves or was there something behind the scenes that we don’t know about which causes the talks to just utterly cut off? If it’s the former, I think Peavy could still end up in the ATL. If it’s the latter, Towers may have no choice but to come back to the Braves.

By Elmer

November 18, 2008 7:51 AM | Link to this

What happened to the quest for the Card’s Ludwick?

By Roach

November 18, 2008 7:58 AM | Link to this

why do we want ludwick one season in the bigs and he becomes a great player i dont think so

By TampaBrave

November 18, 2008 8:26 AM | Link to this

“There you go again” peanut farmers. Anybody who thinks Kelly Johnson will advance the mission of winning our division has probably been harvesting crops in Afghanistan. Can he hit sometimes? Sure, sometimes he goes on a roll. But more times than not, he is a serious liability defensively. Good teams are strong up the middle. That’s a basic formula. His range is terrible and hard hit balls eat him alive. If this were the beer leagues, he’d be perfect. Winning games entail that we score more than the other team. When your defense is weak, you are already at a disadvantage. We watch and hope that the ball is not hit in his direction. We see it as a 50/50 proposition of obtaining an out. Beer leaguers, put down your frosty brews and recognize the true differences between baseball and softball. Fantasy leaguers, put down your Blackberrys, and you too, realize that offense is only part of equation. In most sports, defense is important if you want to get to the next level. Let’s stop pretending that the hole at 2nd does not exist. Let’s stop fantasizing that we can excuse the poor defense in lieu of the occasional HR. I say give Prado a reasonable chance to win the position.

To add to what I think 100%Real was trying to say, I think what he meant to imply was that the Braves, like the Celtics of old, by all appearances,like to have their main performers identify with their main audience(white people). Sure they have minorities on the team, but they want the face of the Braves to be white. I’ve noticed that too. It could be a marketing thing more than a racist thing, which is acceptable to me. But the guy wasn’t crazy.

By flange1

November 18, 2008 8:51 AM | Link to this

TampaBrave,

Don’t know why you would respond in a positive light to the comments of 100% real.

Both of the trades that he mentioned traded were persons of color traded for other persons of color.

If you are saying that the Braves (or any other team) traded away a star player for a lesser player so the team leaders would be white, I think you are stretching things a bit.

I think JS was trying to improve his team. Not sure if either trade worked out as expected, but I don’t believe for a second that he said, wow, David Justice is a great player, but he is black and we want our best players to be white, so let’s trade him for an inferior talent (also black) so the white boys can be the team leaders.

Sorry, that is not logic, it is absurd….

By JT

November 18, 2008 9:01 AM | Link to this

How much of a say does Bobby Cox have in any trade? Escobar is a good/great SS (considering his contract), but what I’m wondering about are the rumours that he is not the greatest clubhouse guy- would that influence the trade for Peavy? Would Cox be saying “Yes, definitely deal Escobar because it would be nice to have him out of here”? Or, would the opposite be true, as in “No way, we love Escobar here, don’t overvalue Peavy and only pull the trigger if it’s a steal”? I get that baseball is business, but do managers and/or GM’s think about any of that?

By DAP

November 18, 2008 9:13 AM | Link to this

tampabrave i dont think kelly’s defense is as bad as you make it sound.

and 100% real may not have been crazy, but what he said was idiotic. just a really really dumb statement.

By Shaun

November 18, 2008 9:16 AM | Link to this

TampaBrave, actually Johnson does every important thing reasonably well. He gets on base, he has some power, he’s a good baserunner and his defense isn’t as bad as his reputation.

By hope not

November 18, 2008 9:17 AM | Link to this

Do you think if Frenchy had been black he would have been traded last year or would have been in AA more than 3 days? I hope not.

By Efrim

November 18, 2008 9:17 AM | Link to this

Same old stuff from Ken Rosenthal:

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8810628/Varitek-has-good-reasons-for-steep-decline

But I did find this interesting:

No word yet on the Mariners’ next manager, but two rival executives speculated on Monday that the team will choose Red Sox bench coach Brad Mills. Their reasoning: Mills, after working for the Sox, is well-schooled in statistical analysis, and the M’s are forming an entire department devoted to sabermetrics. The department will be run by Tony Blengino, a longtime statistical analyst who came over from the Brewers with new GM Jack Zduriencik …

I believe there was a discussion a month back about statistical analysis and if it is used in major league front offices.

By Shaun

November 18, 2008 9:19 AM | Link to this

JT, where are you getting your info that Escobar “is not the greatest clubhouse guy”? Maybe he is, maybe he isn’t. But I haven’t heard that.

By Raddad

November 18, 2008 9:22 AM | Link to this

I am just curious on why in the world some in this blog seem to think the braves are a racist team? Then why in the world did the Braves try to acquire Barry Bonds multiple times? Terry Pendelton was the face of the franchise. If I am not mistaken Hank Aaron is also an ICON for the Braves. It seems there is a lot of short term memory loss in this blog!!!!

By ncscoots

November 18, 2008 9:28 AM | Link to this

I guess Kelly Johnson would have to win a Gold Glove and turn Ozzie Smith somersaults to change the opinion of some posters here. If then. I do know that any discourse with those of TampaBrave’s opinion is wasted effort, though, so I’ll just roll my eyes and laugh, instead.

TennPaul, I don’t disagree with your post of 9:21, re the potential for FA pitchers to go belly up. But I do think the probability is that the pitching staff would be better with them than without them, however second-tier they may be. Hey, you and I both wanted the same thing last offseason, but Harden, Haren, or whoever else might have been a long-term ticket, didn’t make the train. That’s show biz. Time for Plan B, even if it costs in dollars and year (I lean more to the former than the latter).

By Roach

November 18, 2008 9:29 AM | Link to this

I think Flowers could be with the big club come this year. Case and point Jeff Francouer played about 1/2 the season in AA and was called up and lit it up in the final months of the season. With a couple strong months in AA Flowers could be hard to keep down there.

By DAP

November 18, 2008 9:34 AM | Link to this

on trading for carlos lee…the ‘stros would have to pick up some of his salary, which they have no reason to do. they are going to keep him. lee is a similar hitter to magglio, but is owed $18.5mil per for the next 4 years. way to much.

ordonez, on the other hand, is owed an average of $16mil over the next three seasons., which is much better, but still alot.

neither player is really right for the braves, but between them, mags would be better for the team.

By David O'Brien

November 18, 2008 9:40 AM | Link to this

I get that baseball is business, but do managers and/or GM’s think about any of that?JT

JT, if by “that” you’re ferring to whether they think about a guy’s clubhouse demeanor or his overall “teammate” profile, if you will, then yes, of course they think about it. That’s all part of it. The No. 1 thing, and by a large measure, is performance. But yes, of course other factors come into play in these decisions, too.

By that I mean, If a guy is a tremendous presence in the clubhouse, you can bet they’re more inclined to keep him over a guy with similar performance who doesn’t nothing but exert a negative pull on his teammates or a guy who doesn’t act like his teammates are overly important to him.

By Efrim

November 18, 2008 9:42 AM | Link to this

Heard on the radio this morning that the Yankees are ready to offer AJ Burnett 5 years and 80 million.

By McFann O –[zzz]

November 18, 2008 9:51 AM | Link to this

Hey! Welcome back, Chief!

Roach I think Flowers could be with the big club come this year……With a couple strong months in AA Flowers could be hard to keep down there.

And what would we do with—

No…wait…never-mind…don’t answer that, please!

By David O'Brien

November 18, 2008 9:53 AM | Link to this

Raddad, the person or persons you’re referring to must be confounded by the fact that that one of the Braves’ two absolute untouchables is OF Jason Heyward, huh?

OK, I’ve got get over to Firestone and get a tire patched before I post a new blog. If not, that baby’s gonna be flat by this afternoon…

By G Roberts

November 18, 2008 9:54 AM | Link to this

I will not be surprised if Peavy has arm problems in the near future. His pitching motion is not smooth and fluid which puts additional pressure and stress on the arm.

By just a guess

November 18, 2008 9:55 AM | Link to this

Dempster stays with the Cubs, Lowe signs with Boston and Burnett signs with NYY.

Braves will settle for third-tier starters on short contracts, and hope the kids mature quickly.

This will not be for lack of trying, but the things that were once our strong suit - postseason assurances and Bobby Cox’s presence - are in question both short and long term.

Therefore, Atlanta is not the destination team it once was.

By Roach

November 18, 2008 10:00 AM | Link to this

McFann,

Im not saying play him in front of McCann. I think McCann is the best catcher in the league just like you. But come on we need power he has power.

By David O'Brien

November 18, 2008 10:03 AM | Link to this

Efrim, that sounds about right for A.J. Or rather, about right what I expected the Yankees to offer per year, though I didn’t think he’d get six years guaranteed. Five years, max, I figured. But hey, it’s the Yankees, they’ve got the bucks to make mistakes and move on if they don’t work out.

But honestly, if, say, Baltimore or Atlanta offers a deal worth $15 per year vs. the Yankees’ $16 mill per, which do you think is ultimately better for the pitcher, in terms of cost of living? If you’ve spent time in New York (as you have) and in most other cities outside of equally ultra-expensive San Francisco, you know the answer.

However, that extra year could make the difference. I’ve got a hard time imagining Braves giving him six years guaranteed. We’ll have to wait and see.

By Efrim

November 18, 2008 10:06 AM | Link to this

Just a guess

Dempster stays with the Cubs, Lowe signs with Boston and Burnett signs with NYY.

Sounds about right. But the Braves have to be careful that they don’t overpay for second tier starters such as Randy Wolf and Oliver Perez. And also be careful that they don’t overpay in trade for pitchers like Jake Peavy.

By TampaBrave

November 18, 2008 10:07 AM | Link to this

Flange1

I don’t pretend to know what JS was thinking and neither do you. If he and other senior management did make such a decision for marketing reasons, do you think they would come out and say that? Look ATL is still in the deep south and though it is densely populated by blacks, baseball is not the sport dejour for most blacks. So it would not be out of the question to market your team toward your true fan base.

DAP

Yes KJ is that bad defensively. There were so many mistakes last year that maybe he just blended in.

Shaun You are the statistical Kool-Aid man, hence, you don’t even watch to see things that statistics don’t pick up. You have to watch the games and just not read the stats(which are sometimes tainted by human error) on the web sites. My 18 year old daughter, who played softball for years and played 2B, watches the games with me sometimes and has made comments about KJ many times like “Dad, I would have got that one”, referring to a ball that got by him up the middle. And I know she would have. When you translate that to KJ being a pro, then there is a real problem.

Raddad Hank was a different era. Terry was a stopgap measure that turned to gold. Barry Bonds?? Are you serious??

Look people, take the goofy glasses off. He does not have infielder instincts. We know this. Is he serviceable? It depends on what your definition of serviceable is. I say put him in the outfield and give him a shot there. I don’t hate the guy, he just cannot play the position the way it needs to be played on a winning team.

By Efrim

November 18, 2008 10:17 AM | Link to this

DOB

I’d be shocked if the Braves offer six years. I expect a 5 year 75 million dollar offer from them. And you’re right about the cost of living in NYC/Westchester County or Fairfield county, CT. It’s damn expensive. I’m just hoping that the Yankees get Lowe and Sabathia, so then AJ has to choose between the Orioles and the Braves. Hopefully he’ll like a move back to the National League.

By flange1

November 18, 2008 10:22 AM | Link to this

TampaBrave,

I guess that we are just going to disagree. I don’t believe that any front office any professional team in the 1990’s forward (your time frame) would make a trade that would diminish his team based on the race of that player.

Maybe the attitude of that player (ie, lets get rid of John Rocker, his mouth is hurting our team) but not because of the race of that player.

Yes, I know Atlanta, was born here in 1959 and am third generation Atlantan.

By DAP

November 18, 2008 10:28 AM | Link to this

tampabrave Look people, take the goofy glasses off. He does not have infielder instincts. We know this. Is he serviceable? It depends on what your definition of serviceable is.

he was drafted as a SS, after all. he had good enough infielder instincts to get drafted by a professional baseball organization, so ill give the braves the benifit of the doubt on that one. you are entitled to your view, just like your daughter is free to believe she could play 2nd base in the major leagues better than kelly, which is kinda funny to me.

i would define kelly’s defense as servicable, and improving.

also, dont forget, when the braves burst on to the scene, they had alot of black players. justice, gant, nixon, sanders, pendlton, ect, and the city was electrified. even the white people. can you believe it? there is no way you will get me to believe that the braves value race as a marketing tool more than winning.

By Raddad

November 18, 2008 10:29 AM | Link to this

DAP

I was merely trying to prove a point about the Braves. Let’s talk about the city of Atlanta’s sports teams? Hawks = Joe Johnson,Josh Smith Falcons= Vick (whoops that must be the falcons fault) Micheal Turner, Matt Ryan, John Aberham. Braves= Smoltz,C.Jones. The braves are viewed as racist because of long careers.What about Brandon Jones Yunel Escobar and many others. OK Ok Future Braves hmm Jason Heyward who is untouchable boy thats racist Gorky Hernadez, Thanks for opening my eyes about the braves. So I guess the Hawks Are Racist to because they do not have any white players??? Remember it’s got to go both ways???

By stamper

November 18, 2008 10:30 AM | Link to this

i gotta say, i don’t think the Braves will sign Lowe, Burnett or Dempster. I think in each case we’re gonna get outbid… and i’m totally fine with that. Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to have Lowe… but not at over 16 mil a season. Same for Burnett and Dempster. Not worth that type of money.

I think our best chances are with the injury prone, Sheets… despite us not showing any interest in him, as of yet. Perhaps a 1 or 2 year contract with incentives.

Same applies to Brad Penny. I see us making him a similar offer.

As for Hampton, Glavine and Smoltz? I think we end up with 1 of the 3… and that person is Smoltzie. He’ll wind up in the pen, I assume.

By McFann O –[zzz]

November 18, 2008 10:31 AM | Link to this

Roach—

I know. I was just being facetious…You know, with all the “move McCann to first so Flowers cann catch” thing.

Hey, towards the end of the season, if McCann’s a little worn out, Flowers might be able to help.

By DAP

November 18, 2008 10:36 AM | Link to this

raddad i think you and i agree here. maybe you meant to address your post to someone else. either way, the idea that braves management uses race as a factor when deciding who to keep and who to release is stupid. that braves want to win, just like any other club. and the idea that they have problems with people of a certain race is silly.

By FlaN8ive

November 18, 2008 10:39 AM | Link to this

Mets Infielder David Wright Mauled by Pack of ‘Cougars’ Saw this headline and thought he’d had some sort of freak hunting accident. Turns out he was being mobbed by a bunch of older women. Oh well.

By Efrim

November 18, 2008 10:40 AM | Link to this

Found this from Peter Gammons blog on ESPN:

The Braves’ deal for Jake Peavy is not dead. Sending Jose Ceda to Florida lessened the Cubs’ chances. The Yankees are not in the running at all. Frank Wren still believes the Braves will get this trade done.

What were the Cubs thinking? If anyone has time, go check Ceda’s stats in Double A. Why Kevin Gregg? Because he has major league experience? What an awful trade for the Cubbies.

By David O'Brien

November 18, 2008 10:46 AM | Link to this

Efrim, I just went back and realized I misread your original post about Burnett’s offer from Yankees. Don’t know why I thought six years, when you wrote five. So yes, that offer from Yankees, if it’s as reported (five years, $80 mill you said you heard) is right about where I figured it’d be.

And yes, five years at $75 mill from Atlanta would be worth more, in terms of cost of living, etc. Anyone who’s lived in NY, or just looked at the cost of housing there, would know that. But sometimes players don’t see it that way. Sometimes they just see the total amount and compare it to what others are getting, regardless of location.

(And sometimes, let’s be honest, it’s the agent convincing them to take the bigger deal regardless of location, because the agent gets the same percentage of the total contract, whether the player takes deal from NY or from Cincy.)

flange1, I absolutely agree with your 10:22. In this day and age, anybody out there is kidding themselves if they don’t think it’s all about one color — green. Money, folks. Winning is what puts butts in the seats and sells advertising.

By flange1

November 18, 2008 10:46 AM | Link to this

Efrim,

I wonder what AJ would think of a 3 year 60 million deal?

I say offer more money and shorter contracts…

By Efrim

November 18, 2008 10:49 AM | Link to this

Picked this off Keith Law’s top 50 free agents list, in which Furcal was ranked 7th. Thought this was a good pick of shortstop arms in baseball:

In the field, Furcal has average range but a 70 or better arm; the discussion of best shortstop arms in the game includes him, Yunel Escobar and Troy Tulowitzki, and that’s probably it. He should be able to handle the position for another three years unless his legs start to go quickly.

If the Peavy deal somehow still gets done, I hope the Braves resign Furcal. I know, they still need a power bat in LF. But replacing Yunel with a talent like Furcal might be something I can stomach. A similar 3 year and 39 million dollar deal that he signed with a Dodgers would be the most I would offer. Not sure if that would get it done, but someone’s with Furcal’s back problems shouldn’t be handed a four year deal.

By Original Jon

November 18, 2008 10:52 AM | Link to this

DOB Can the Yankees really do what they are doing? I mean, are the other owners really ok with what the Yankees tactics are?? I read where the Brewers GM was ticked because they offered Sabathia 5 years at 100 million and he said the Yankees should have went to 110, but instead they jump all the way up to 140. Are there any other managers who feel that the Yankees are being classless by offering outrageous contracts to try and get the players they want, not giving any other team a chance unless they match that ungodly contract or beat it? Seems almost like the Yankees are trying to monopolize the free agent pool by flooding it with tons of money and not giving the other GMs chance. I think what they are doing is wrong, may not be illegal, but its ethically wrong.

By mtb

November 18, 2008 10:53 AM | Link to this

DRU

I agree with you on that, but that was only 2 examples. I gave you a few more and there are still some to name. We traded Fred eventually as we did with Terry. Terry played for the Reds for a few seasons after he left us. I don’t want you to think I’m a racist because of this. I was just stating how it seems that the black players that were on this team seem to be more expendable than the other players on this team.

By Original Jon

November 18, 2008 10:55 AM | Link to this

flange1 who are we, the Dodgers?

By GermanBravesFan

November 18, 2008 10:55 AM | Link to this

From mlbtraderumors:

“Padres GM Kevin Towers wonders if Jake Peavy would’ve accepted a trade to the Braves, given Atlanta’s club policy against no-trade clauses. Towers isn’t talking to the Braves, Dodgers, or Yankees about Peavy, and Rosenthal says he’s “not making much headway” with the Cubs. “

Funny that Towers is wondering now - all he had to do was ask Peavy to approve (or disapprove) a trade to the Braves and he would have found out. Sounds like he is trying to make excuses for not pulling the trigger when he had the chance.

By Raddad

November 18, 2008 10:56 AM | Link to this

DAP

I did. It is just crazy what some people think.

I do think the Braves will overpay to get a FA?? The one thing can about the Braves is that we never know whaT is going to happen until it happens?

By STH

November 18, 2008 10:56 AM | Link to this

cmon ajc its a blog, not an opp for some idiots to try and write an story of their own. cmon people blog, quick to the point kinda short thoughts, not a page of your nonsense. wish we could get peavy, but i would give up the farm for him either. he can get hurt like anyone, get a quality # 2 and another quality #2 starter. add hanson and jair and lets go. peavy would of been nice, for a fair price, but we can get this together without peavy too. they want hampton back, glavine back, and have jair, need 2 quality starers.

By STH

November 18, 2008 11:00 AM | Link to this

i would welcome furcal back, but with lillebridge waiting i dont know if braves would spend that much on him, and it would take dollars from budget to spend on OF and SP

By Fred

November 18, 2008 11:03 AM | Link to this

DOB, I want to recommend NTB for your tire needs. I’ve been going there for years and they are typically very honest and fairly priced. They also do brakes and oil changes. However, the one on the 85 access road by REI sometimes has poor service. Just some food for thought.

By crap-wheelie

November 18, 2008 11:04 AM | Link to this

DOB:

It looks like the Yankees will sign all of the top free-agent ace pitchers this off-season. The offers that the Steinbrenners have made to Burnett and Sabathia, are staggering. And word is they are planning to drive up another truck for Lowe.

That will leave the Braves scuffling with other big money clubs for Dempster, Perez, and other also-rans, and we will likely lose because teams such as the Mets, Sox, and Cubs will be forced to sign those also-rans to compete with the Yanks. Please tell me there is some good news on the horizon.

As is, it looks like we won’t see a new pitching staff on the Turner Field mound this year. Right now, Campillo would be our number two. That means at best a 65-win season. This looks really bad.

Should the team just save its money and hope for a better free agent pitching market in 2010? At least the Yankees won’t be able to sign all free agent aces next year if they spend this much this year.

Thanks for the great blog.

By DefBraves

November 18, 2008 11:06 AM | Link to this

Looks like we’re not gonna be getting AJ Burnett either. It has been reported that the Yankees are gonna throw 80 million over 5 years at him, and then throwing god knows how much at Lowe.

Looks like we’re #@&$ outta luck with those 2! What’s next??

By GermanBravesFan

November 18, 2008 11:08 AM | Link to this

Efrim - what’s the difference between offering a guy with backproblems a 3-year contract or a 4-year contract?

Here’s a question: would Randy Johnson be worth a one-year deal?

By STH

November 18, 2008 11:08 AM | Link to this

almost every deal in free agency is crazy and a player is way over paid, but that is wat free agency is about, that is why it was created to over pay a player.

By Efrim

November 18, 2008 11:08 AM | Link to this

DOB

No problem man. Yes, I also think it is the Players Union that has a hand in this stuff. They push these guys to get the highest offers no matter what. Most powerful union in sports.

And how about the Braves luck? First time they have a considerable amount of money to spend on free agents, and what team gets 80 million off their books? Yup, the New York Yankees. Hits keep on coming for Los Bravos. Whether it be injuries or what have you…..

Flange1

I’d love it if Burnett took a three year deal with more money offered annually. But I don’t think he will. Not a bad idea though, 3 for 60. Like I have said, Braves gotta spend this money somewhere. They aren’t going into the season with a 60 million dollar payroll. They have more money off the books next year, but the free agent starting pitching market isn’t nearly as good as this one.

By mtb

November 18, 2008 11:09 AM | Link to this

*Eric from MO *

I’m not saying they don’t trade white players. I understand this to be true, and I understand there’s a small % of blacks in the MLB. What I was saying is that they appear more expendable the way we trade them off. I’m not like 100% Real who is 100% Dumb. The thing is though we resign Tom Glavine. I don’t think we would try to get Jermaine Dye back. We traded Tex because with him we still weren’t good and he would cost too much next season. He didn’t do as well as we had hoped. He was good, but to me we couldv’e kept Scott Thorman and gotten similar results. We traded black players that were doing well for us.

Remember Dwayane Wise? He was leading the MLB in triples when we traded him. Willie Harris? Offered speed at the top of the lineup and was good for what we needed but we didn’t resing him. I gave a list of other players that had been pretty good when we decided to trade them. When we trade Tex, we did that because we were disappointed with the results he put out. When we let go of Maddux it was because we had up-and-coming picthers in the farm system that were suppose to take over.

By Bama

November 18, 2008 11:10 AM | Link to this

DAP and Raddad- agree race is not a problem with the Braves . The Braves had the 1st black GM Bill Lucas. The Braves want to win…red, yellow, BK are white if they can play..go-r-it. This is my take on the Braves.

By Corey

November 18, 2008 11:13 AM | Link to this

The Braves are currently in contact with Furcal’s agent. That tells me that Escobar still may be traded for Peavy. The Dodgers and Yankees are reportedly out, and the Cubs don’t have the players (unless they bring in a 3rd team).

I think Wren is banking on the Padres being forced to come back to him and possibly have to accept lesser compensation than they would have gotten to begin with.

In the beginnings of the trade talks, Towers said he wanted “quality over quantity”. However, at some point he decided he wanted both. I think a deal would still be centered around Escobar & Gorkys Hernandez. Towers was holding out for that plus 3 more pitchers, and Wren was rumored to have offered 2 (Morton & Boyer). Towers will be lucky if that offer is still on the table after playing the market and finding no better fit than the Braves.

By Jonathon

November 18, 2008 11:18 AM | Link to this

DOB,

Looks like the lefty-reliever market is starting to take shape. Marte gets 3 years/12 million from the Yankees and Affeldt gets 2 years/8 million from the Giants. Given those numbers, is the price for Ohman within the Braves’ means?

By Braveheart

November 18, 2008 11:18 AM | Link to this

Here’s a question: would Randy Johnson be worth a one-year deal?

Yeah, he would. And so would pettitte and mussina. Much more so than 5 wasted seasons and millions of aj burnett

By Efrim

November 18, 2008 11:18 AM | Link to this

GermanBravesFan

Efrim - what’s the difference between offering a guy with backproblems a 3-year contract or a 4-year contract?

You have to draw the line somewhere. I think Furcal is worth a three year deal, as it seems his on base skills have improved since he left the Braves. Like most middle infielders, his range will decrease as he gets older. Keeping that fourth year guarenteed out of the contract would be important in my view.

By Efrim

November 18, 2008 11:21 AM | Link to this

Ken Rosenthal reports the Cubs are close to resigning Ryan Dempster:

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8812098/Cubs-close-to-re-signing-righty-Dempster?CMP=OTC-K9B140813162&ATT=49

By cphizzle

November 18, 2008 11:21 AM | Link to this

are you kiddin me i do believe it is bout time we get off the whole black white issue here…breaking news…this just in…its 2008, the braves make trades because they believe it is what is needed at the time to try and make the ballclub better…lets grow up here guys

By DAP

November 18, 2008 11:22 AM | Link to this

would Randy Johnson be worth a one-year deal?

yes, with the situation we might be looking at.

but also, if the braves cant get thier ace this offseason, i dont think there is a problem with signing a guy who could serve to solidify the staff in the future.

in other words, say we miss out on all top tier, and even 2 tier free agents. we could sign randy wolf for three years, mike hampton for two, and randy johnson for one.

this way, we probably wouldnt win anything in 2009, but in 2010, we could have hudson, jurjens, hampton, hanson, wolf, along with morton, jojo, campillo, ect. even if we sign a guy who is average, he can help us in the future. the last thing we need to do is save our $40mil until 2010, because the free agent pitching market shrinks considerably.

we need to spen every bit of that money, even if its for modest upgrades.

By Original Jon

November 18, 2008 11:25 AM | Link to this

Now it seems as if the Cubs are close to re-signing Dempster

By KC

November 18, 2008 11:27 AM | Link to this

GermanBravesFan : “Sounds like he is trying to make excuses for not pulling the trigger when he had the chance.”

Well that makes sense, except Towers STILL HAS that chance. If he were to call Wren today and say “we’d like to accept your final offer that we discussed last week”, the deal would get done. No question about it.

By Interested Observer

November 18, 2008 11:27 AM | Link to this

Maybe the Braves should sell Burnett and the others on the fact that Atlanta is just a short ride away from Dr. Andrews’ clinic in Birmingham. Plus, with the AAA team in Gwinnett now, you don’t even have to leave town for your rehab assisgnment.

By Jonathon

November 18, 2008 11:27 AM | Link to this

Here’s what Peter Gammons said yesterday regarding Peavy:

• The Braves’ deal for Jake Peavy is not dead. Sending Jose Ceda to Florida lessened the Cubs’ chances. The Yankees are not in the running at all. Frank Wren still believes the Braves will get this trade done.

Also, ESPN’s Keith Law argues that the Cubs made a big mistake sending Ceda to Florida for one year of Kevin Gregg.

By Efrim

November 18, 2008 11:33 AM | Link to this

Braveheart

Yeah, he would. And so would pettitte and mussina. Much more so than 5 wasted seasons and millions of aj burnett

I hear your concern on Burnett, but if you sign Johnson/Mussina/Pettitte, you are back to square one next offseason with John Lackey being the only free agent available worth signing. I mean, you have to spend some money at one point or another. Again, I asked Tennesee Paul this and received no answer, do you want the Braves to go into 2009 with a 60 million dollar payroll and a rotation of Jurrjens, Campillo, Morton, Reyes and Hanson? And the middle ground that may be your response to me is that of Randy Wolf, Jon Garland, Oliver Perez in free agency. Of course the other option could be trading prospects to fill all of our holes…..which I am pretty sick of to be honest with you.

I understand the risk of Burnett, but isn’t their risk with Derek Lowe too? 4 year contract for a 35 year old ain’t that wise either. I really don’t care if he has never hit the DL because that is what I heard about Tom Glavine too.

By Jonathon

November 18, 2008 11:34 AM | Link to this

Does the Cubs signing Dempster weaken Towers’ position? If the Yankees are opening the checkbook to try and sign 3 starters (Sabathia, Burnett, Lowe), then they probably aren’t really interested in shipping top-flight prospects to San Diego. Who does that leave? Atlanta. Would Towers crawl back to Wren, or suck it up and keep Peavy until the trade deadline?

By DAP

November 18, 2008 11:40 AM | Link to this

there are seeral pitchers who are free agents coming off of injury that the braves could get a good deal on, if they wanted to take a risk. weve heard alot already about brad penny, mike hampton. also, freddy garcia, mark mulder, carl pavano, mark prior, kris benson.

the last three on that list are probably not ones id be interested in taking a chance on, but the others could be had very affordably, and might come back pretty strong.

By Nate

November 18, 2008 11:43 AM | Link to this

I think the Braves’ chances of signing any one of the free agents we’re all talking about is pretty low. If anything they may be using deals offered by the Braves as leverage toward the teams for whom they really want to pitch.

Unless Towers comes crawling back to Wren the Braves are gonna end up with pitching scraps. If that’s the case why spend all you time and effort trying to work on deals that aren’t going to come through. The Braves still need two outfielders, a cleanup hitter and a lead off hitter. Aside from the Ludwick rumor a few weeks ago there has been no news or talk about the Braves pursuit of position players, except for Furcal for which the Braves currently have no need. The only reason the Braves would sign Furcal is if they traded Yunel for pitching.

If the pitching market is so tight then drop it for awhile and let others overspend. The team has other needs that needs to be addressed.

By Buffalo NY Braves Fan

November 18, 2008 11:44 AM | Link to this

I read earlier this morning that the Cubs are trying to include a third or even a FOURTH team to satisfy the Padres requests for players. Do the Cubs have enough prospects left to get 2 other teams involved? It’s not going to happen for the cubbies, and Towers is going to be stuck with Peavy or have to come crawling back to FW when their owner asks why Peavy hasn’t been moved yet.

By DAP

November 18, 2008 11:44 AM | Link to this

if the cubs sign dempster, look for towers to come crawling back. i was actually really starting to like the idea that escobar was going to stay with us. may wren could still swing that…

By Gary

November 18, 2008 11:51 AM | Link to this

Jonathon, to answer your question, No. Towers will not hold on to Peavy and trade him at the deadline. It makes no sense. Peavy would still have the no trade clause and the chance that the teams he would accept a trade to are not in the running for the playoffs. Another thing is the Padres are in financial ruin right now with the messy ownership personal fiasco and need to shed payroll. Plus the big thing is what if Peavy got injured or proved to be ineffective during the 2009 season? Then he would lose all trade value that he has now and then Towers would be stuck with all that money locked up into an injured or unproductive pitcher. The way things look, I give Towers a week before he calls Frank Wren and agrees to the final offer. Then Peavy becomes the Braves risk.

Though I don’t necessarily agree with TampaBrave on many things, his opinion of Kelly Johnson is about right. Sure the guy has some pop and can get on base, but he is a streaky hitter like Javy and Andruw were and his defense is not all that great. His range is terrible and I can count plenty of times where he costs the Braves a run/game because of a stupid error. Everyone’s opinion of him is based strictly on his performance in the final 5-6 weeks of the season. I do remember when many on this blog were ready to crucify him back in June when he made that costly blunder that resulted in the Phillies beating the Braves. Good kid, solid hitter, but so so fielder. In the game of baseball you do not sacrifice defense up the middle and expect to win.

By Efrim

November 18, 2008 11:52 AM | Link to this

DAP

i was actually really starting to like the idea that escobar was going to stay with us. may wren could still swing that…

Same, but I doubt Wren could swing that.

By Lew

November 18, 2008 11:54 AM | Link to this

TampaBrave-Dude, no one is saying KJ is ever going to win a Gold Glove and yes, defense counts. However, the numbers on KJ don’t bear out your assertions. The Dude ranks 13th of 30 2B. Guy is dead average-not terrible, not great-average.

By Nate

November 18, 2008 12:00 PM | Link to this

There are other trade option out there for pitching too. What do you guys think of guy like Justin Duchscherer. He had a good year last year. Made the all-star team. He has some health issue near the end of the season with his hip, or something. It had nothing to do with his elbow or shoulder. He’s not young, but he is available.

He’s obviously not the ace type pitcher that anchors a staff, but he could certainly fill a slot in the rotation. Maybe acquiring a couple of #2’s is the best the Braves are gonna be able to do this winter.

By Efrim

November 18, 2008 12:01 PM | Link to this

Lew

Guy is dead average-not terrible, not great-average.

By average, you mean average defensively, right? Because I think he is above average offensively. Just checkin.

By auburnbrave

November 18, 2008 12:10 PM | Link to this

So, we probably aren’t getting Peavy, the Cubbies are about to re-sign Dempster. And I don’t see the Braves being able to throw money at Lowe or Burnette the way the Yankees are going to if they are as interested in those two as what I have read inclines, Am I the only one that is worried the Braves are going to be left out in the cold and won’t be able to get their top choices this off season?

By DAP

November 18, 2008 12:14 PM | Link to this

gary Everyone’s opinion of him is based strictly on his performance in the final 5-6 weeks of the season.

a very broad, and false, statement.

By Shaun

November 18, 2008 12:14 PM | Link to this

You are the statistical Kool-Aid man, hence, you don’t even watch to see things that statistics don’t pick up. You have to watch the games and just not read the stats(which are sometimes tainted by human error) on the web sites.

How do you know I don’t watch games? Are you stalking me? How do you know I’m an absolute baseball fanatic yet I don’t watch baseball? You are either psychic or you are a stalker.

By Gary

November 18, 2008 12:19 PM | Link to this

Nate, I can almost guarantee that Duchscherer won’t be available. The As just picked up Matt Holliday because they are wanting to compete next year and get ready to open the new stadium in 2 years. Since that is the case, I don’t think they are going to trade their best starting pitcher and still be able to achieve those goals.

Now I wouldn’t rule out another surprise pitcher or two being made available. Frank Wren knows what is out there and will make a deal if it can be done.

By DAP

November 18, 2008 12:21 PM | Link to this

nate duchester would be good but will be a free agent after this year. the braves could wait to sign him next offseason.

efrim youre probably right…but a guy can dream right?

By Gary

November 18, 2008 12:23 PM | Link to this

DAP a very broad, and false, statement

Oh really? Maybe not in your opinion, but most of the posts I saw from April until about late August were negative towards KJ and people calling on Bobby to play Prado more. Also go look on other message boards the Braves have. Most fans don’t have such a high regard for Kelly Johnson as you obviously do. But hey its your opinion and that is fine. I just tend to disagree with it.

By Lew

November 18, 2008 12:24 PM | Link to this

Efrim-Yes, defensively average. I truly think that Kelly’s different approach at the plate (more aggressive and not so patient), which lead to his 20 something game streak at the end of the season, showed what he will really be like on offense. I think that he should be placed at one spot in the batting order (please, NOT leadoff) and left there. If he retains the aggressiveness and quits taking strikes like he did as a leadoff hitter, which lead to not much more than 2 strike counts, he will be an excellent hitter with much more power than is average for second basemen. With his speed, he will become a doubles and triples machine.

By Nate

November 18, 2008 12:26 PM | Link to this

auburnbrave,

I agree with you. The top pitching choices are really off the table. Its time to move on to other alternatives. I gotta assume Frank Wren is as aware of this stuff as any of us are.

Why is everybody worrying about Kelly Johnson’s defense. With all the holes this team has Kelly’s defense is the last thing that needs to be worried about.

By Lew

November 18, 2008 12:29 PM | Link to this

AuburnBrave-No, you’re not the only one thinking doom and gloom, but why not give Wren a chance before you decide what is and what isn’t possible? The Hot Stove season has barely begun and many here are already throwing in the towel. I bet The House Wren isn’t. The Yankees can’t sign everyone and you have zero idea what the Braves have offered any of the Free Agents..

Even if the bigger name free agents don’t come our way, Wren could put together any number of deals that no one here has even thought of. How many saw the Jurrjens trade coming?

By Bubdylan

November 18, 2008 12:32 PM | Link to this

It looks more and more like the Padres and Braves need each other. Badly. The pads are probably not gonna get anything near our package without us and we are not going to get anything near Peavy without them. Just makes sense to take deep breaths and belly back up to the table.

That’s all predicated, of course on the Peavy-doesn’t-really-want-Atlanta rumors being false. Are they false?

By Efrim

November 18, 2008 12:33 PM | Link to this

Gary

Most fans don’t have such a high regard for Kelly Johnson as you obviously do.

I have a pretty high regard for him.

Lew

I think placing him in one spot in the order and keeping him there would be a good idea as well.

By DAP

November 18, 2008 12:38 PM | Link to this

gary opinions are fine. i was mostly addressing your thought that apparently “everyone” (except you, of course) had been blinded by KJ’s performance late in the season and over valued him. i know for a fact that that statement was false, because i dont view him based on the end of 2008, so i know “everyone” doesnt.

im gonna guess that almost everyone on here looks at KJ’s career numbers to decide his value.

By David O'Brien

November 18, 2008 12:39 PM | Link to this

Lew’s right about KJ — certainly not a great defensive player, but not a major liability, either. As I’ve said before, those harsh critics of his defense, please name one game other than the dropped popup where Kelly’s defense directly led to a Braves loss. Honestly, his bat produced far more game-changing or game-winning hits than his glove cost the Braves. Few 2B can do as many things as he can offensively. Very few.

By McFann O –[zzz]

November 18, 2008 12:41 PM | Link to this

BEGGAR BEN CAME BACK!!!

: )

By David O'Brien

November 18, 2008 12:47 PM | Link to this

Bubdylan, they’re false. Trust me on that. Peavy was ready to drop his no-trade clause over the weekend if the sides had otherwise finalized the deal. You’re hearing a bunch of second-hand innuendo and rumors.

When you see a direct quote from Peavy saying he doesn’t want to go to Atlanta, believe it. Until then, you probably should take into account the Braves were one of five teams he told his agent he’d accept being traded to. Nothing’s changed since he and his agent made that list.

By Don't Trade Franceour, Sheesh

November 18, 2008 12:51 PM | Link to this

Oh God…DOB…why would you bring that up…the play the sent Philly to the World Series and the Braves to the basement…

“Two hands, Kelly! sniffle Two sob hands!” I still whimper to myself at night…

By Steve

November 18, 2008 12:52 PM | Link to this

Once one free agent pitcher signs, the rest will follow quickly. I still think the Braves will get Peavy, but I must admit I am starting to get a little nervous. We need to get somebody soon…….

By TennesseePaul

November 18, 2008 12:53 PM | Link to this

Efrim: Who’s talking about going into the season with a $60 million payroll. So far you’re the only one saying that. I don’t think the team should go into the season hoping JoJo Reyes suddenly becomes a real pitcher. It just isn’t going to happen, ever. But I also don’t want to see the team dump $16-18 a year and 4-5 years on AJ or Lowe. The second tier pitchers aren’t going to carry this team into the post season.

Scoots: You’re right. We did angle for the same things last off season. We agreed that signing Glavine and calling it quits was a bad move. And I don’t think we are too far apart right now. My hang up is surrounding the terms of the deals. I understand they’ll have to get some crap to fill out the rotation until we have some real pitchers, I just don’t want that crap to be glued in tightly with a bad contract.

Perhaps this team will turn to a Dodger type deal: Johnson, Penny and Sheets on short term deals. It would look like a farce, much like the Dodger teams of the last few years. And of course we’d still have the same problem next off season of needing pitching, but I’d rather need pitching in the off season than want pitching but unable to obtain due to mediocrity taking up all the space.

By Nate

November 18, 2008 12:56 PM | Link to this

I’ve seen a number of places that say Justin Duchscherer is available. Including this one:

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081031&contentid=3656715&vkey=newsmlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

That may have changed with the A’s adding Holliday. I have no idea about that. He is a free agent after this year, which means there’s not much risk in acquiring him, and the price shouldn’t be too high. He’s not in the A’s long term plans. They never sign their own free agents.

By Patrick

November 18, 2008 12:58 PM | Link to this

Dempster re-signs with Cubs. 4 Years $52 mil.

http://www.nj.com/yankees/index.ssf/2008/11/dempstertoresignwithcubs_s.html

By TennesseePaul

November 18, 2008 1:01 PM | Link to this

Keeping KJ in one spot would be a brilliant idea. And if Yunel and KJ are still on the team, KJ should be lower in the order. Leadoff guy, Yunel, Chipper, McCann, KJ…. or toss in that mystery monster bat that will be acquired without trading any prospects, or signing any free agents, right between Chipper and Mac. It makes for a real deap line up. Potentially devestating. Especially with Wolf and Oliver Perez on the mound. Watch out world.

By RC

November 18, 2008 1:01 PM | Link to this

MLBTrade rumors is reporting that the Cubs have signed Dempster for 4 years, 52 million

By nevin

November 18, 2008 1:04 PM | Link to this

See if we can get Javier Vazquez and Jermaine Dye from the White Sox while still keeping Yunel. Give them KJ, Morton, Flowers and an arm from Myrtle Beach or Rome (or lower) other than Locke, Rohrbough, Teheran or What’isname, the left handed high school kid we took in this year’s draft. Maybe Eric Cortier, good control, sinker / change with a middling fastball that could still pick up a couple of miles, teach him that Southside cut fastball. He, Morton, KJ and Flowers makes a nice haul for Dye and Javier, if they’re trying to move them anyway. Then sign Dempster and/or Lowe, stick Dye in Left, let him spell Frenchy in right to keep him fresh, play Prado at 2B (or some combo of Yunel, Lillibridge and Prado rotating between 2B and SS). Bring back Smoltz in the bullpen. Done.

By BravesFanInRockies

November 18, 2008 1:05 PM | Link to this

Nate,

I like Duchscherer as well, but you’re right — the A’s are probably less likely to trade him now that they have Holliday.

The A’s want a new, publicly financed stadium (I know, fat chance of getting one in today’s economy) and making a run at the postseason this year may boost their odds. Meaning they’ll probably keep Duke to top their rotation. Rats.

By Efrim

November 18, 2008 1:06 PM | Link to this

Tennesee Paul

Who’s talking about going into the season with a $60 million payroll. So far you’re the only one saying that.

I’m saying that because you have never really said what you’d like the Braves to do. That’s what the payroll will be if you choose to stay away from every starter in free agency. You keep saying to stay away from the “second tier pitchers”(which I guess is everyone but C.C. Sabathia) but you also keep saying that you want them to keep pitchers like Jo Jo Reyes out of their rotation.

I think you answered my question in your response to ncscoots, but I hadn’t actually seen that response from you in previous posts, which is why I asked it in the first place.

By TennesseePaul

November 18, 2008 1:06 PM | Link to this

Mark Dempster off the list. (sigh of relief)

And perhaps Justin Duchscherer is available? Though I here he’s a real douche.

By Luther

November 18, 2008 1:07 PM | Link to this

I wouldn’t consider Kelly a major liability or myself a harsh critic of his, but I would also consider him below average defensively. There were many games last season that I was upset when a seemingly average second baseman would have turned a double play or gotten to a particular ball. Just googled Kelly Johnson poor fielding to find some proof for DOB because the games all run together for me and I found this fans blog of Glavine’s first start of the season against the Pirates on Fanhouse. Obviously I realize this is partial opinion, but it seems that one error or misplay of a ball that could be a hit or an error rarely costs a game by itself when compared to a pinch hit grand slam that it completely credited with winning a game against the Mets.

2nd inning- Glavine gets Jack Wilson to bounce to second for what should be the last out, but Kelly Johnson muffs it and LaRoche scores from third. They’re not showing Glavine, but I bet he’s p**. He really bore down this inning and his defense gave up the run anyways.

3rd inning- Glavine then gets LaRoche to hit what should be a ground out, but is again misplayed by Kelly Johnson. I think they’ll score this one a hit, but it should’ve been an out. No harm no foul, though, because Glavine freezes Nady with a backdoor curve for his second looking K of the inning

By mikeingeorgia

November 18, 2008 1:09 PM | Link to this

Someone earlier mentioned we didn’t have a viable option behind Chipper…but, I believe we could get Russ Branyan for our bench who could relieve Chipper from time to time and still provide pop at that position as well as off the bench..granted, he has bounced around from team to team but one thing never questioned is his power and ability to hit..in addition, he should be relatively cheap and he is from MIddle Georgia, just down the road from ATL.

Also, Randy Johnson should be quickly added due to 1) his past performance, 2) his star-power which would add to seats being sold and fan acceptance, 3) his relatively inexpensive cost compared to some of the FA’s out there possibly due to his age.

Then move quickly to add Mike Hampton at a reasonable salary (he should sign for ML minimum for what he “earned” and then provided to the Braves…LOL).

These three relatively small acqusitions should resolve some strong needs and show Peavy and others that the Braves are working short term as well as long-term to “build” this team back..If Peavy or another huge FA pitcher are not signed, we still have “reloaded” and might be OK.

Finally, as others have stated earlier, I’m confident and excited to see what some of these “young” pitchers can do (Campillo, Morton, Hanson, and Parr) if added to Randy Johnson and Mike Hampton without giving up on Yunel, Boyer and two other prospects. KJ, Yunel, McCann are a great nucleus from which to build a solid contender around like Phillies and Mets (always be strong up the middle begins with catcher, SS, 2B and CF). We have two great CF prospects that might solve our CF issues/needs as soon as next year !

Thus, as a long-time fan, one more year is NOT too long to wait for the WS contender as long as we are competitive this year…

GO BRAVES 2009….Cant’ Wait..Love this BLOG !

By brian

November 18, 2008 1:10 PM | Link to this

DOB - do you think getting Peavy would help recruit a free agent like Burnett much in the same way top college basketball recruits are able to help recruit other top high schoolers?

By TampaBrave

November 18, 2008 1:11 PM | Link to this

Lew

Your assessment of KJ is based on balls he gets to. On that, he is average at best. You are discounting the fact that his range is extremely poor.

If he retains the aggressiveness and quits taking strikes like he did as a leadoff hitter, which lead to not much more than 2 strike counts, he will be an excellent hitter with much more power than is average for second basemen. With his speed, he will become a doubles and triples machine.

If my Aunt had testicles, she’d be my uncle.

Shaun

You don’t have to be a psychic or stalker to know you are a full time stats maniac. Guys like you, in my experience, are detached from the real aspects of the game. Your analysis is only as good as the official scorer who routinely props up stats for players by giving them hits when there was an error. Offensive stats are tainted and so is defense. That is why you have to believe your own eyes, not the stats. Are you still selling Kias?

DOB

You are not giving the whole story. Yes, winning is the most important thing. But marketing is very important too in these times of overinflated salaries. They are selling us something. We pay them for their product. Ask me why I never go to basketball games anymore? Because I don’t identify with them.

By ncscoots

November 18, 2008 1:17 PM | Link to this

I understand they’ll have to get some crap to fill out the rotation until we have some real pitchers, I just don’t want that crap to be glued in tightly with a bad contract.

You bet. I’m on record for being in favor of dollars over years, when it comes to these FA pitchers. But the Braves may not have the luxury of that choice, so they may have to bite the bullet and hope for the best.

Besides, if much of the blog has anything to say about it, 4/5 of the starting rotation will be making the league minimum and arb salaries for the next five years, anyway, LOL. The Braves won’t even notice a bad contract. :-)

By J.D. Phillips

November 18, 2008 1:19 PM | Link to this

We’ve gone from the likes of Peavy, Burnett, Lowe and Dempster to discussing Randy Wolf ….LOL

Go ahead and sign Juan Rivera for our clean-up guy and that should just about do-it.

This is going to be one long season. 100 loses may be on the horizon.

By ncscoots

November 18, 2008 1:32 PM | Link to this

That is why you have to believe your own eyes, not the stats.

That assumes that what your eyes see actually gets to your brain, and that some working synapse fires once the data gets there.

By TennesseePaul

November 18, 2008 1:34 PM | Link to this

Go ahead and sign Juan Rivera for our clean-up guy and that should just about do-it.

C’mon JD, get with the program, we’re getting the worst outfielder in the majors to bat clean up… Jermaine Dye. He’s old and expensive and can’t field the ball to save his life, but it’ll be like Skates is back out there in the field again…

I ran the Cost of Living Calculator for 15 million in New York. That would be 6 million in Atlanta. But I don’t think any player would see it quite that way… something to do with the competitive nature and a desire to win…

By Bobby's Cox

November 18, 2008 1:38 PM | Link to this

Carroll:

Thanks for the blog. I agree with everything you’ve said, and pulling out of the Peavy talks was a wise move by Wren. I hope what Bowman said rings true; that is, the Padres will have no choice but to dump him later, and the Braves could hopefully get him for a lesser package that what they were offering.

Also, it’s nice to see others besides me talking about Nelson Cruz. The kid can hit and hit with power. He K’s a lot, but has a lot of walks as well. When I saw him hit at the end of the year, he hit a lot of balls to center and right, showing me that his plate discipline isn’t that bad as the K’s would indicate. He’d be like a Dunn with a Hamilton upside IMO. FOR CHEAP!

Go get him wren!

By flange1

November 18, 2008 1:38 PM | Link to this

I am amazed by some of the posters on this blog!

First they say the FA pitchers stink, that they aren’t worth the money.

Then they say the Braves can’t sign any of the FA pitchers.

Then they say trade for Peavy but don’t give up too much.

Then they say don’t trade for Peavy because he is an injury waiting to happen.

I think we all need to remember what FW told us at the end of the season, he is looking for 2 top of the line starting pitchers, 1 bat for the OF and a LH relief pitcher.

As of today, 4 trades have been made and 4 guys have signed and of those 4 only 1 went to a different team.

The winter season has just begun, let’s give FW a chance before we deem 2009 to be a bust…..

By brian

November 18, 2008 1:44 PM | Link to this

you guys - give Wren a break. The free agency period is 4 days old. Only one and possibly 2 (if you include Dempster) players have signed. Wren stood his ground with the Padres which was the right thing to do. He cannot make them take the deal the Wren wants. The Padres may yet have to come back to the Braves.

The offseason is young. Much will happen. Give the man a break

By brian

November 18, 2008 1:44 PM | Link to this

you guys - give Wren a break. The free agency period is 4 days old. Only one and possibly 2 (if you include Dempster) players have signed. Wren stood his ground with the Padres which was the right thing to do. He cannot make them take the deal the Wren wants. The Padres may yet have to come back to the Braves.

The offseason is young. Much will happen. Give the man a break

By Shaun

November 18, 2008 1:45 PM | Link to this

You don’t have to be a psychic or stalker to know you are a full time stats maniac. Guys like you, in my experience, are detached from the real aspects of the game. Your analysis is only as good as the official scorer who routinely props up stats for players by giving them hits when there was an error. Offensive stats are tainted and so is defense. That is why you have to believe your own eyes, not the stats. Are you still selling Kias?

Wow. You have me pinned down exactly.

Stats are tainted. But watching the games can tell us everything, right? Because it’s possible to watch every single play of every game in the majors so that we know exactly how much better or worse a player is compared to other players. Plus our eyes never deceive us.

Oh, and I can get you in a Kia today!

By chuckw/deadjournalist

November 18, 2008 1:48 PM | Link to this

I’m still pushing for Aaron Harang.

In reading one of the SI writer’s blogs (Heyman, maybe?) he mentioned that SF might be interested in making a run at one of the big three free agents; but would probably need to move Barry Zito to do so.

I’m not sure the of per-year dollar amount due on the rest of the five-year (with an option at $18mil) contract, but would he be worth $9/10mil a year if SF covered the balance of the contact due and wanted minimal prospects in return?

I look at his number, and there’s no two ways about it, he was below average last year and only average the year before that. Who knows what a change of scenery might do for him. Maybe nothing. But if he could be league average for the next five years - and stay healthy - would he be an option?

Realistically, the Braves are going to have to find at least one, if not two, starting pitchers who are going to be somewhere around average. If they do, it will be an improvement from the same 4/5 slot in last year’s rotation.

By Efrim

November 18, 2008 1:49 PM | Link to this

Flange1

The winter season has just begun, let’s give FW a chance before we deem 2009 to be a bust…..

That is difficult for some to do. They feel the need to stamp Caveat Emptor on every single player we might seek through free agency or trade. Then if something does go wrong, those bloggers will be back here to say “I told ya so”.

By crap-wheelie

November 18, 2008 1:50 PM | Link to this

Flange:

Frank Wren may be a miracle worker. And he may be able to get two great starting pitchers this off-season. But I really doubt it.

The Yankees are cornering the market on aces. They have stepped into an auction that was already superheated and offered twice what anyone else can pay. There’s no way we can compete with that.

By the end of this month, Mike Hampton will be the best pitcher still on the market.

Unless we can get Peavy and maybe Penny, the Gwinnett Braves will win more games next year than the big club.

By McFann O –[zzz]

November 18, 2008 1:50 PM | Link to this

Bobby’s Cox Nelson Cruz. The kid can hit and hit with power. He K’s a lot…

You know who else K’s a lot? And I’m talkin’ once every 3.5 at-bats…

This is not like, a knock against the guy—I mean he has more total bases than at-bats—and I won’t name any names, but…some here are beggin’ for him to be with the Big Boys sharing time with one of our best players…

By Daybed Wagmoe

November 18, 2008 1:56 PM | Link to this

As I’ve said before, those harsh critics of his defense, please name one game other than the dropped popup where Kelly’s defense directly led to a Braves loss.DOB

May 16, 2007, Braves at Nationals. Bottom of the 5th inning, Braves up 4-2. Kyle Davies retires the first batter of the inning, followed by a single and walk. Next batter hits a potential double-play groundball to KJ, who boots it — instead of going on to the 6th inning, the Nationals have bases loaded with one out, and go on to score 4 runs in the inning. The Braves go on to lose 6-4.

By Shaun

November 18, 2008 1:56 PM | Link to this

Seems to me the Padres have all the leverage right now. It’s no surprise to me that they asked for too much or that the Braves refused to give up what the Padres were asking.

I think the Padres realize they can trade him now if they get the right package or they can wait until some point in the 2009 season when teams may be desperate to improve. If they don’t get the right package any time soon, they can simply hold on to him because he is signed long term. And they don’t have anything to lose by holding on to him because he’s still fairly young and he’s an ace.

Sure, the Padres realize they are better off moving Peavy for at least a couple of younger, cheaper players that will likely bring more to their team than Peavy alone but they have very little to lose by holding out for what they feel is the best possible deal for them.

By kirkinga

November 18, 2008 1:57 PM | Link to this

Good observation flange1. I think you captured just about everyone. Though you might have given the “prospect-huggers” a break :)

By robdawg08

November 18, 2008 2:00 PM | Link to this

I know I’m being Mr. Captain Obvious here but we all know that if the Braves don’t get a power hitting OF and two good starting pitchers that its HIGHLY unlikely they can compete with the Phillies and Mets next year. The Phils and Mets go 4 deep in solid SP’s and both have awesome 2 thru 5 hitters. The Braves have 2 solid SP’s and are solid at 2,3,and 5 spots offensively. Hmm…

What is the status of Tom Glavine and John Smoltz ? I read that Smoltz needs surgery on his arm again.

I think Chipper Jones was robbed in post season awards for top defensive NL 3B Gold Glove and Silver Slugger 3B in favor of David Wright (wrong !).

Does anyone know who the Braves are after in F/A market ? A.J. Burnett,D.Lowe,etc. ? Maybe DOB will know ?

I actually like your columns a lot Carol since I don’t have to scroll thru awful songs posted by DOB every blog to post comments.

By Josh H

November 18, 2008 2:00 PM | Link to this

chuckwdeadjournalist:

Calling Zito an average pitcher is an insult to the average pitcher community :)

By cphizzle

November 18, 2008 2:01 PM | Link to this

well looks like the ol bravos will have to take a frenchy approach to the offseason and season to…swing and hope for the best

By BigWorm

November 18, 2008 2:01 PM | Link to this

we need to make Smoltz a Relief Ace..basically he comes into the game whenever we’re in a jam in the 6th, 7th, or 8th inning kind of like how the yanks use to use Joba..then we can just use Moylan for the 7th..Soriano for the 8th as our setup man..and Gonzo in the 9th as our closer..give Smoltz an incentive laden deal and now we dont need to worry about our bullpen

By flange1

November 18, 2008 2:01 PM | Link to this

crap-wheelie,

First, I disagree with you. I think the Braves will make a good run at AJ and or Lowe.

Second, if you are so sure the Braves will stick next year, why bother following them or posting here?

Just to wallow in pity?

If you are not a bit optimistic at this time of year, you need to move on to another team or another sport……

By DAP

November 18, 2008 2:07 PM | Link to this

nate That may have changed with the A’s adding Holliday.

it probably has. my guess on what the A’s are doing is they will try to win in the AL west, and if they arent winning, they will sell guys like duchester and holliday midseason for prospects. i think they are going for the playoffs, and banking on getting draft picks or prospects for those guys.

By BravesFanInRockies

November 18, 2008 2:09 PM | Link to this

TampaBrave,

You’ve decided Kelly Johnson’s a bad player and nothing will convince you otherwise.

But at least base your distaste on something tangible — instead of “facts” that aren’t accurate.

His range factor is above the league average for 2B:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/j/johnske05.shtml

So he makes more plays than the average 2B.

I don’t think he’s a butcher but he’s the opposite of slick. He’s just not a fluid defender. He has trouble seamlessly getting to a ball on the move and then making a throw. He can be very mechanical. But he’s not a butcher.

But as DOB said, not many 2B can match his offensive skills.

By Tomas

November 18, 2008 2:12 PM | Link to this

Okay say good bye to Aj Burnett and Ryan Dempster. I cant believe Dempster took that deal, he at least could have gotten more than 13 million per year.

By Nocturnal Owl (N Nine)

November 18, 2008 2:13 PM | Link to this

The Cubs signing Dempster comes with no surprise. The Cubs have always wanted him and with no Peavy in sight, This was a done deal.

If Wren sees a small light between here and San Diego its smart not to throw 75M on Dempster. Lets leave options still open for Peavy to come here. Just sick of talking about the dude…

The Yankees aren’t in on Jake Peavy, as evidenced by Kevin Towers’ comments last night

At this point the Braves, yes the Braves are still leading in the Peavy hunt.

BTW anyone wanna chat with Scott Boras at USATODAY?

YUCK

By GermanBravesFan

November 18, 2008 2:14 PM | Link to this

DOB: here some good news: New album by The Boss will be out January 27… Info at www.backstreets.com - go to “News”

Now back to trades and Free Agents…

By Mike Honcho

November 18, 2008 2:14 PM | Link to this

Wow, Barry Zito! Barry freakin’ Zito! I think if we dethawed the Splendid Splinter we’d find he had more left in him.

Is this what the mighty Braves have come to?

I would rather see Frank Wren completely mail in the offseason and sign Jose Canseco and Barry Bonds, replace the Chop House with a Balco scientific lab and then hire a VH1 film crew. It would at least be more entertaining than last year and the suggestions for this offseason like trading for Barry Zito!

Sorry, I feel much better now. I’m just going to sit the next couple of plays out.

Sincerely, Honcho

By N8

November 18, 2008 2:15 PM | Link to this

flange 1

“I think we all need to remember what FW told us at the end of the season, he is looking for 2 top of the line starting pitchers, 1 bat for the OF and a LH relief pitcher.”

And pretty much right there, lies the problem.

He made the statement.

Statements like that, raise expectations hopes of the fans. Raised hopes and expectations, means the backlash is going to be more harsh, if this goal is not met.

JS would have NEVER publicly stated what his wish list was. He would have simply stated that there were particular areas that needed to be addressed.

That way, if those “needs” are not met, they simply state publicly, that they got done what they wanted to do, and nobody knows differently.

Kind of like JS bidding on A-Rod a few years back. He NEVER stated that Arod was on the “wish list”. He simply made an offer. Had he stated that Arod was our main off-season goal, then failure would have appeared to happen.

Wren set the bar too high for one off-season.

Doesn’t mean he can’t still have a successful off-season, and hell, the Braves still might make the playoffs with the right moves (and the right guys stepping up or turning it around).

But if he fails to get Peavy, AND fails to sign any of the free agents that the fans have been drooling over, he’s gonna have a hard time convincing anybody that Randy Wolf (or somebody like him), is an improvement on the rotation. Even though it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to realize that a guy like Randy Wolf would be an upgrade over the inconsistency we had last year.

I like the idea of a guy like Randy Johnson and a 1 year deal with a club option for year 2 (or something along those lines).

Less risk (in terms of years and overall dollars), and just as much upside for a “reward” if healthy.

Perhaps Maddux could be talked into a one year deal? Not the “Ace” we need, but a veteran innings eater, none the less.

All I’m looking for in 2009, is progress towards being competitiveness, with an eye on 2010.

The fans EXPECTING to make the playoffs in 2009, are the ones that will be disappointed come August of next year.

Not me.

By TennesseePaul

November 18, 2008 2:16 PM | Link to this

But as DOB said, not many 2B can match his offensive skills

Depends on the month. Many 2B surpass his in the middle of the summer, for 3 month stretches at a time… But KJ can put up a real mean September.

By cphizzle

November 18, 2008 2:17 PM | Link to this

how bout the KJ hiccup against the phillies that seemed to put us on a roll face it he is just to inconsistent we dont ever know what he is going to come to the plate with

By Nocturnal Owl (N Nine)

November 18, 2008 2:18 PM | Link to this

Pedroia beats out Morneau to win AL MVP

By DAP

November 18, 2008 2:21 PM | Link to this

chuck dead journalist id love to get harang, too. the reds need position players, and have several very good starters. it seems like one of them (either harang or arroyo) would be expendable to fill needs in the outfield, SS, ect. but, i havent heard any rumors at all about them being dangled.

By robdawg08

November 18, 2008 2:22 PM | Link to this

I also wanted to invite everyone to check out my website : www.rwcollectibles.ecrater.com If any of you collect sportscards or like DVD movies, check it out.

I’m going to my first Falcons game with my 9 year-old son Sunday (versus Panthers). I’ve been to over 30 Braves games but the Falcons were so awful during the 80’s,90’s,and most of 00’s (save the one good year with C.Chandler - Dirty Birds) that I didn’t want to make trip to then drive home mad after losses… My blood pressure zooms up after losses. I’ve always been a fan of my home state teams though. Mostly thru thin (except the Dawgs & Braves) …

By albert

November 18, 2008 2:23 PM | Link to this

DOB:

Any thoughts on the psychologocal effect/confidence factors in regards to Yunel Escobar being heavily shopped by the Braves this offseason if he is not traded? Does he have the personality to just shrug it off or will it permanently damage his relationship with Braves management?

By Bubdylan

November 18, 2008 2:25 PM | Link to this

Honcho, I laughed at your rant.

By AdirondackDave

November 18, 2008 2:28 PM | Link to this

DOB — Could you give me your take on this. There were a lot, and I mean a lot of homers hit this year in the Arizona Fall League. Seems like a lot of high batting averages too. My first thought is that the hot, thin air favors hitters but then I see Hanson racking up incredible inninings on the mound. My brain is severely conflicted on the issue of whether the climate there has artificially inflated numbers. Help…

By Bill

November 18, 2008 2:29 PM | Link to this

Nate: The Braves don’t need another pitcher with medical problems. Duchscherer had some arm problems. Don’t know how serious. I think all pitchers must have some kind of arm or shoulder problems.

By David O'Brien

November 18, 2008 2:29 PM | Link to this

Robdawg, you that challenged with the cursor, that scrolling past the “awful songs” is a problem for you? Wow. We feel for you. Rough life, huh?

By the way, nice how you use this blog to troll for traffic to your little website. Maybe you can wait until Carroll posts again to come back? Meantime, you can put all your efforts into your own fine site instead of ripping my blog?

Or maybe I’ll hop over there and check out that content you’re providing on your site, and offer a critique?

For all but Robdawg:

NEW BLOGGAGE

By robdawg08

November 18, 2008 2:31 PM | Link to this

Its natural for Braves fans to expect the GM to get quality free agents every year. We’ve come to expect. You know what the Phils and Mets have and if you can’t match them then mail in the season. Its become a “have’s” league. The Braves may luck out and have rookies outperform like McCann and Francoeur did a few years ago. But do you want to go with that next season when good free agents ARE available ?

I think Evan Longoria should have been AL MVP and Ryan Howard NL MVP. Both led their teams to the World Series.

By JimD

November 18, 2008 2:31 PM | Link to this

Roger McDowell being Barry Zito’s pitching coach would be like Bill Lee being Mark Fidrych’s pitching coach. what a hoot that would be.

But Zito … I don’t know, no, I DO know. Too much gamble for the the bucks.

By ppaddy123

November 18, 2008 2:33 PM | Link to this

By David O’Brien

November 18, 2008 9:40 AM

JT, if by “that” you’re ferring to whether they think about a guy’s clubhouse demeanor or his overall “teammate” profile, if you will, then yes, of course they think about it. That’s all part of it. The No. 1 thing, and by a large measure, is performance. But yes, of course other factors come into play in these decisions, too.

Just to follow add to what you said DOB……A co-worker of mine….his son was drafted 4-5 round last year by the Dodgers (John Michael Redding). As he was going into the draft process, he had several teams that were interested in him, and several had him take psychological exams. So obviously there are MLB teams measuring both physical and mental capabilities of players they are interested in.

By T'VILLE DAWG

November 18, 2008 2:38 PM | Link to this

Say ing letting Dye get away would be similar to Detroit saying they shouldn’t have let Smoltz get away. These things happen and humans can’t see into the future. Remember this though, if the team does sign Dempster they are going to lose their #1 draft pick again this year. No way you let Hanson or Yunel get even brought up in conversation with the club that has a chicken for a mascot, maybe that’s why the Pads never have done much out there

By J-Dub

November 18, 2008 2:39 PM | Link to this

Jon Garland?

By Jim

November 18, 2008 2:39 PM | Link to this

Would I like to see a staff that features Jurjens, Hanson, Morton, and 2 others of the caliabre of Hampton, Glavine, Campillo? YES. Maybe Hanson will arrive in the major leagues “fully born” like Lincecum, or almost there like Hamels when he first came up. Maybe it will take a year before he becomes a dominant starter, but he needs to get his feet wet in Atlanta and it might take a year or so hor him to develop like it did with Avery, Smoltz, and Glavine. As for Morton, he has a similar body type and repertoire to Pelfry. It took Pelfry almost two years to develop into a solid number 2-3 type starter. I think Morton could be the same kind of pitcher for us. With a year under their belts, a rotation featuring Hanson, Jurjens, and Morton will look prety good in 2010 — especially with other talent like Schefer and Flowers ready to contribute or be used for a suitable trade.

If Frank Wren does little more than sign the Japanese pitcher and the Cuban third baseman I will be more than happy. That would add to a solid nucleus that should be seriously ready to contend for at least the first five years of the next decade.

By ncscoots

November 18, 2008 2:41 PM | Link to this

The fans EXPECTING to make the playoffs in 2009, are the ones that will be disappointed come August of next year. Not me.

nathan, why should this year be any different from any other year, since you’ve been coming here? You’re the type of guy who expects the worst and thus can never be disappointed…only surprised at a different outcome. It’s not even the damn winter meetings yet, and you’re already in print for a Braves’ failure in 2009. That’s got to be a record, even for you!

By robdawg08

November 18, 2008 2:44 PM | Link to this

DOB, I’ve been on this AJC website for 4 years. This is the second time EVER I mentioned my website. My website is a hobby for fellow collectors. I’m sure there are some here. But you have those conrny 70’s & 80’s songs in EVERY blog.

By Novice Ned

November 18, 2008 2:52 PM | Link to this

Is there any reason why the Braves would talk to Boras about Lowe but not to Boras about Oliver Perez? Perez should cost less, is younger and gives us a quality lefty in the rotation.

By Jim

November 18, 2008 3:05 PM | Link to this

DOB

Thanks for the reports on Hanson and Flowers. But did you get a chance to see and get reports on the other Brave players at Mesa? I’d particularly like to hear what you saw and have heard about Matt Young. Is he a dark horse candidate for a promotion to Atlanta in the next year or two? Also what is the word on Medlen and Marek? These three player seem to be quitely having a good fall in the shadow of Hanson and Flowers.

By robdawg08

November 18, 2008 3:39 PM | Link to this

The problem with Scott Boras players’ is if they are worth $5 million per year he will be asking for $8 million per year. This agent is a cancer to MLB economics and has been for years. He creates a domino effect of overpricing too for other players. Its great for the players but bad for teams not named Mets,Yankees,Dodgers,Angels,Cubs,Red Sox,and Phillies. I’m sure he will want between $24 and $30 million per year for Manny Ramirez. And the financially rich Angels or Yankees will probably pay it. That immediately makes someone like Jermaine Dye,for example,worth more also. MLB needs a salary cap like the NFL has. The only way the Royals,Pirates,and Nationals can compete will be a salary cap. Manny Ramirez will make $25 million a year and the entire K.C. Royals team will make about $25 million.

By Steve

November 18, 2008 4:22 PM | Link to this

Hey Robdawg, since you want to promote websites today and you share my opinion of Boras……check out www.banscottboras.com. Of course nothing is there, but I do own the name, maybe i will do something one day.

By mtb

November 24, 2008 10:48 AM | Link to this

By Eric from MO why is completly ok for the NBA and the NFL have almost no white players and no one complains.

Let me answer this for you. If all the gms and head coaches in the nfl were black, I could understand your argument, but the reality of it is that there are more white gms than black gms. The ines that have the power to make decisions are white and they chose the players, so that’s why you aren’t hearing the complaints.

By Ronald Millsaps

November 27, 2008 12:55 PM | Link to this

I have a suggestion that most people would reject immediately, but it makes all the sense in the world: Make Boyer a starter.

Blaine Boyer has some of the best velocity in baseball, and he’s a big guy; he probably could handle tallying a lot of innings.

Did he have a hard time last year? Yes. He also had flashes of brilliance. Granted, the former outweighed the latter, but the following questions come to mind here: What were the circumstances influencing his different levels of production? Was he comfortable in his role?

John Smoltz said this team needs a return to power pitching. Boyer has the power needed. (I’m not sure of his repertoire, but if he had an off-speed pitch and a slider, too, that repertoire would be substantial.) I think about Jorge Sosa here, as the Braves used him also in the rotation and the bullpen (2005), and he was clearly more comfortable in the rotation. I call these types of pitchers “canvas pitchers”, as they tend to be better when given a blank canvas to draw on as opposed to coming in and perhaps feeling compelled to modify their approaches to game situations.

By the way, Boyer did start in the minors.

The upside far outweighs the downside here; the Braves organization owes it to itself to try this idea.

Titans 41, Lions 10—Reminiscent of 1999, as I distinctly remember Marcus Allen in a pregame interview at the Titans’ Thanksgiving dinner, saying, “Thanks, Greg. I’m here with the best team in the NFL: the Tennessee Titans.” (I was a little surprised that he gave that opinion.)

Cowboys 34, Seahawks 17—Thankfully, this year is the final year that we’ll see a Thanksgiving Day game at the eyesore known as Texas Stadium. The halftime “festivities” are the sorriest around.

Cardinals 30, Eagles 20—I admire the Cardinals and Kurt Warner’s season, but he isn’t the frontrunner for MVP, and the blamed Cardinals aren’t as good as advertised. I’m sick of hearing about how “good” they are, when the Falcons, who truly are good, are getting overlooked. The Cardinals also play in a terrible division, whereas the NFC South has the Falcons, Buccaneers, and Panthers, three of the top six teams in football.

By Deep Throat

November 27, 2008 1:13 PM | Link to this

Make Boyer a starter.

Oh great, a guy whom isn’t reliable for one inning is going to be trusted to pitch 5-9 good innings?