Braves

By FANcoeur

November 12, 2008 3:19 PM | Link to this

Thanks for the new blog, Chief!

By GamecockBrave

November 12, 2008 3:22 PM | Link to this

1st

By dave

November 12, 2008 3:22 PM | Link to this

Good read DOB, last year about this time you were lauding Morton’s AFL performance.

After watching both (and ignoring the scouts for a moment) do you feel about Morton juxtaposed with Hanson. I know the knock on Morton is between his ears but on talent.

Oh long time lurker, first time poster.

By James Munson

November 12, 2008 3:24 PM | Link to this

DOB IDK if you saw my post on the last blog or not. The Eagles are my favorite musicians of all time and I went and saw them this past summer, they still have it. Excited to see them tonight. On a baseball note, Any intrest from the Braves for Garrett Atkins??

By ppaddy123

November 12, 2008 3:24 PM | Link to this

dude……..why is everything in bold face?

By ppaddy123

November 12, 2008 3:25 PM | Link to this

much better

By Gibby

November 12, 2008 3:25 PM | Link to this

D.O.B. any possibilty the Braves will try to throw Flowers into the deal instead of Escobar? Maybe we could do a Hernandez, Flowers, Kelly Johnson and Charlie Morton deal.

By David O'Brien

November 12, 2008 3:26 PM | Link to this

Flowers just hit his eighth bomb, smashed a liner to left-center. One off the league lead, and he’s done it in just 60 at-bats.

By James Munson

November 12, 2008 3:27 PM | Link to this

HR Flowers! Woo!

By Bubdylan

November 12, 2008 3:27 PM | Link to this

Tyler!!! Doin’ it up. Pssst, Towers, it was just a lucky swing. Nothing to see here.

By Bubdylan

November 12, 2008 3:30 PM | Link to this

Hanson’s bringin’ it again. Endless supply of… VORP-GOO …hits the deck

By nolie

November 12, 2008 3:30 PM | Link to this

To start with, Flowers has a compact swing and has hit for a high average with an OBP well above .400 and nearly 100 walks last season, more walks than strikeouts.DOB

I got to watch him play a few games late last summer. He is one of the best looking young hitting prospects that the Braves have had in many years. Only Heyward looks that good now and he has less power at this point and likely always will have less raw power.If he could save us Esco I would do it, no question;but if not I would much rather trade Hernandez than Flowers.

By lewie

November 12, 2008 3:31 PM | Link to this

DOB outfit is one of those songs that sticks to you…so does danko/manuel

shocked that the last time i caught the truckers, the show was still wild and rocking even after having someone like isable leave the fold

anyway, what if Peavy takes too long? keep esco and sign lowe+ another

maybe revist the KJ trade to STL?

thanks as always amigo

By David O'Brien

November 12, 2008 3:32 PM | Link to this

Now Casper Wells, a Detroit outfield prospect, adds a two-run homer in the same third inning to give the Solar-operated Sox a 7-1 lead. Hanson will go to 4-0.

Willie Eyre is getting rocked for the Rafters. He started and has given up all the runs. And yes, it’s the brother of Scott Eyre. I just asked that question of a PR person here.

By David O'Brien

November 12, 2008 3:33 PM | Link to this

By the way, Flowers has seven of his homers against right-handers in 45 at-bats. (He’s a right-handed hitter.)

By 18 Wheels of Love

November 12, 2008 3:35 PM | Link to this

Peterbilt

Peterbilt

By David O'Brien

November 12, 2008 3:37 PM | Link to this

Man, Hanson is really letting it loose now with this big lead. Mixing some nasty breaking balls, just struck out a guy on a 78-mph curve. Threw an 82-mph slider to the next batter, then a couple of 92-mph fastballs. All of this stuff is in the zone and almost every pitch is down low, but he’ll hump one of those fastballs up high, and coming from such a high arm slot (he’s 6-6), it seems almost impossible for most of these guys to catch up to it.

Now he’s just struck out Head (the DH) again, looking at breaking ball.

By David O'Brien

November 12, 2008 3:38 PM | Link to this

He gets a ton of popups in the infield or foul territory, at least he is today. Seems like every out is a strikeout or a popup.

By David O'Brien

November 12, 2008 3:43 PM | Link to this

Dave, gotta say (scouts aside) that watching Hanson feels different than watching Morton throw those five no-hit innings. More impressive, even though Hanson’s given up a few hits and a run through four. Still seems like watching a man vs. boys.

But yes, Morton was awfully impressive in that game a year ago. And keep in mind, Morton had a few very strong starts this year for the Braves, including the one where he went pitch-for-pitch with CC and actually outpitched him through seven. Can’t discount that.

If Morton ever realizes just how good he is and believes in it, gets past his timid or mild-mannered or however you want to put it nature, he can be a top-half-of-rotation starter. But there are no such questions about Hanson, who has four pitches he can throw for strikes and believes in himself regardless of the situation, whether the previous hitter hit a rope off the fence or not. He knows he’s good and keeps attacking hitters and getting ahead in counts….

Bubdylan, that 3:27 was funny.

By DannyFish

November 12, 2008 3:43 PM | Link to this

I’m really eager to see what Jordan Schafer can do if he can crack into the majors at center. But how far away from getting to the big’s is Heyward. He seems to be one of the “Untouchable Prospects” that we won’t deal and from everything I’ve heard he has very good power. So is there any chance that the Braves give him a shot to be the power hitting outfielder that the Braves covet? And if not right out of spring training is there a chance we get a rental OF free agent until he is ready next season?

By Efrim

November 12, 2008 3:43 PM | Link to this

DOB

Great blog man. I have heard some comparisons of Hanson to John Lackey. Big 6’6” frame, Two seam fastball, Four seam fastball, a slider and curve. Lackey doesn’t sport too much of a changeup either, but it is great to hear Hanson is working on developing his more.

By Charles

November 12, 2008 3:44 PM | Link to this

DOB

Are there any Padres scouts at the game today?

By 18 Wheels of Love

November 12, 2008 3:44 PM | Link to this

How can Hanson not be in the rotation leaving Spring Training if he does well? If he’s better than JoJo and Morton you’ve got to give him a shot.

By Bubdylan

November 12, 2008 3:46 PM | Link to this

Tough day at the ballyard for Willie Eyre.

By J.M.

November 12, 2008 3:46 PM | Link to this

DOB:

What do you think of Matt Young?

By AdirondackDave

November 12, 2008 3:46 PM | Link to this

Great reporting, DOB… we’re following every entry.

By brian

November 12, 2008 3:48 PM | Link to this

Yes we all are frustrated by the Padres dragging their feet, but I am glad Wren is a professional about it. Some people here have suggested showing Towers our middle finger and moving on. Please. I think it is smart for Wren to give a deadline (say Friday?) and then start looking elsewhere, but he should still leave the door open if Towers comes to his senses. Get frustrated with Towers - Yes. Take it personally and burn bridges -No.

Again, Flowers may very well move himself into the untouchable category because if he keeps hitting like this and developing as a hitter the Braves will find a place for him and McCann when Flowers is ready for the big leagues.

By doug

November 12, 2008 3:49 PM | Link to this

if Hanson is that good, let’s just sign one pitcher and go after Manny :-)

By JR Bob Dobbs

November 12, 2008 3:49 PM | Link to this

Thanks for reporting your assessment of the Q-Tip album DOB. I tend to agree…

As for the Braves, thanks for the Flowers piece. Escobar, Flowers, and Jo-Jo sounds like an acceptable haul from the Braves to acquire Peavy’s services through his current contract or longer. If (or for that matter, if not) it comes to pass, do you think the Brave have any interest in Oliver Perez? He seems a high-risk/high-reward FA pitcher that will go for less than the CC/Lowe/AJ/Sheets crew. And for that matter, do you know if the Braves have interest in Randy Wolf?

Moving on to another topic of great importance. I say that Wallace BBQ in Austell merits both the best BBQ AND onion rings in metro Atlanta, if not all of GA, but I admit that I am biased. With respect to the O-Rings, I spent six years a while back at the North Avenue Trade School sampling the Varsity’s O-Rings among other things (how come my fridge can’t dispense Frosted Oranges?), just for comparison sake you understand. Anyway, have you ever been to Wallace BBQ?

Enjoy Arizona…

By David O'Brien

November 12, 2008 3:50 PM | Link to this

By the way, Matt Wieters, Baseball America’s minor league Player of the Year, is with the Rafters but isn’t playing today. He’s hit .283 with six extra-base hits including one homer in 60 at-bats this fall (Flowers has hit over .360 with 14 extra-base hits and eight homers in the same number of at-bats)

By Kevin C

November 12, 2008 3:50 PM | Link to this

DOB

I saw a clip of Flowers and when I first saw his swing I honestly thought it was a Tex highlight from this season.

A quick question—who is available for a trade that would fit the Braves need of a starting pitcher that could be a 1 or 2?

Is Harang on the market, I see him as maybe a two?

Thanks Kevin

By CameronC.

November 12, 2008 3:56 PM | Link to this

Tommy Hanson Needs To Be In The Braves Rotation In 2009, Without A Doubt. This Guy Is Amazing. 9 Ks in 5 Innings.. Wow!!

By Efrim

November 12, 2008 3:57 PM | Link to this

And the Braves should be reluctant to part with Schafer. Hernandez is probably 2 years away from an everyday job. And while his tools and projection are high ceiling, I think Schafer has a better chance of reaching his ceiling, which is pretty high itself.

I am torn on Flowers or Gorkys. Both guys are blocked, so to speak. If I had to trade one, I’d rather trade Gorkys based on the fact that catching is just so hard to find. You can probably get away with playing Flowers at Double A all year and possibly using him in a trade next year. It’s possible his defense becomes more of a problem as time goes on, but it is also possible that he gets better defensively and becomes even more of an asset.

I don’t think the Braves can make the Peavy trade without Escobar, to be honest. And by all accounts, I think they are willing to deal him. I’d try to keep Locke out of the deal as well.

Escobar, Gorkys, and Morton would probably be my final offer if I was Frank Wren. I really think that still beats the Cubs best offer.

By Braveheart

November 12, 2008 4:00 PM | Link to this

Does experience matter in the postseason?

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/does-experience-matter-in-the-postseason/

But while a team’s record did not have much of an effect on its odds of winning a postseason series, its advantage in experience did. A team that had, on average, one more year worth of postseason experience than its counterpart, is expected to win their post-season series 54.2 percent of the time, which is nothing to scoff at. The result was statistically significant at the 10 percent level.

Given that one standard deviation in experience difference was 1.5 years, that means that about one-third of all series will see one team favored to win 56.3 percent of the time due solely to its superiority in terms of postseason experience, and 5 percent of the time, a team will start out with a 62.1 percent chance just due to its playoff experience edge.

This is a pretty huge result, and a victory for traditional baseball thinking. It looks like previous postseason experience does help a team win in the playoffs after all.

By chipper n dale

November 12, 2008 4:00 PM | Link to this

hey dave, what’s your impression of matt young from what you’ve seen in arizona? who would you compare him to?

By BraveTiger

November 12, 2008 4:02 PM | Link to this

DOB - with what you witnessed and from the things you have heard, what would you say the chances are of Hanson being in the rotation out of spring training?

By Original Jon

November 12, 2008 4:02 PM | Link to this

WOW, Hanson has 9 k’s through 5 innings. I think he is going to be the Jake Peavy of our franchise

By CameronC.

November 12, 2008 4:03 PM | Link to this

Im at the point where I say keep Flowers and move him into being an everyday 1st baseman. Trade Kotchman. This guy is amazing. And Hanson is unreal.

Flowers has 8 homeruns in only 60 at bats. Thats better than a homeruns every 10 at bats. I know that the pitching down there isnt as great as the majors. But the way DOB talks about his figure. He could end up hitting HRs with the best of them.

By CameronC.

November 12, 2008 4:04 PM | Link to this

Why do they always take Hanson out after 5, I wanna see how the guy does late in games.

By propp

November 12, 2008 4:05 PM | Link to this

Haven’t heard a word about the Japanese pitcher the Braves offered a contract to. Did he fall off the face of the Earth?

By TheCutMan

November 12, 2008 4:05 PM | Link to this

At a time when GM is teetering on the edge of bankgruptcy, there can be no denying that prudent money management is the order of the day for all of us, including MLB teams.

What gets cut first from the budget? Private citizens: Discretionary spending such as tickets to see a ball game.

Businesses: Advertising such as signage and broadcast sponsorships of MLB games.

This growing recession has, I fear, far more legs than most of us are realizing but soon enough will have to face. All of us. Because of it, I’m moving toward just saying NO to Peavy, keeping cash reserves and living to fight another brighter day.

And I don’t care what smack the front office types are laying down. If they’re not feeling the ecomomy tightening around them, they’re fools.

By Jeff

November 12, 2008 4:11 PM | Link to this

As I’ve said previously, trading Hanson or Esco would be a mistake, IMHO. If you add Gorky’s to the trade too, then that’s even worse. But trading Esco and Flowers together would be awful.

To sum it up, trading Esco and Flowers together is akin to trading Hanson. It would be a really stupid trade (and I say that as a big Peavy fan)!

By ncscoots

November 12, 2008 4:13 PM | Link to this

How can Hanson not be in the rotation leaving Spring Training if he does well?

Because pitching to Ryan Howard is just a wee bit different than pitching to Head (the DH).

If confidence is a strength for Hanson, you want to nurture that, not nuke it. Some starts at AAA for Hanson won’t kill the Braves’ season, but rushing the player might kill HIM.

If he truly is ready at ST, and the Braves can use him at the bottom of the rotation, well and good, and let him take his inevitable lumps at a spot where less is expected and the pressure not so great. Otherwise, let him dominate AAA for a couple of months, if he can, and then come to the bigs breathing fire.

Hopefully, too, good health and an offseason weight program will do wonders for Morton’s confidence, and the Braves don’t trade him. That kid is just an inch away from being really, really good. But, granted, that’s a looong old inch to traverse.

The thought of an experienced Jurrjens, a confident Morton, and a developed Hanson is, well, kinda tingly, I’ll admit. Even for practical, realistic guys.

By Ronald Millsaps

November 12, 2008 4:13 PM | Link to this

Though dealing Tunel Escobar looks imminent, I’d like to remind everyone that doing so is highly questionable and should be avoided.

Yes, Jake Peavy is a fine, fine pitcher, but we then have to look into replacing Escobar, a VERY promising shortstop—offensively and defensively—and I don’t think Peavy is really necessary.

Furthermore, this time seems highly motivated to deal Kelly Johnson. Again, why? He has been misused for nearly all of his time year, particularly last season, and has a huge upside, whereas Ryan Ludwick’s statistics from last year might be a fool’s gold. There are reasons, many reasons, why Tony LaRussa wants Johnson. (LaRussa isn’t as good a manager as Bobby, but he does have him beaten offensively in many regards.)

What I’d do…

Sign Adam Dunn. Granted, doing so is not as easy as typing those three words, but I’d pursue him diligently. He would provide more power than Teixeira and would be unlikely to hit into the number of double plays Teixeira hit into last year, as the huge first baseman was a huge disappointment. He’d be a great guy to follow Chipper in the order and would lead to a ten-point increase across-the-board in already-high batting averages.

Secondly, this idea of trading Charlie Morton rests atop the presupposition, partially, that Morton’s 2009 will match his 2008. Here’s a guy who looks promising and who didn’t do badly in ‘08, given how raw he is. Yes, he had some struggles, but he also has a lot of potential and has shown an admirable work ethic. He also has the intangible that is competitiveness, which he displayed in his pitching his best game of the season against C.C. Sabathia.

I’d keep Johnson. I would absolutely not trade Kelly Johnson. He was shuffled like a pack of cards for most of ‘08, and he was given so many days off in between that I wondered how he could attain a hot hand. This man hits the top half, not the lower half, of the baseball consistently and has the potential to drive the ball all over the field. He also is very keen to the strike zone; his only problem has been the way he has been mishandled, one of Bobby’s few mistakes.

I would be more motivated to acquire Dunn than Peavy. I’d return next season with a rotation of Smoltz, Jurrjens, Campillo, Hampton, and Glavine, with Hudson returning in August. I’d also sign Juan Cruz for long relief and rest assured of having a strong bullpen, with Peter Moylan, Mike Gonzalez, Rafael Soriano, etc. hopefully returned to health.

Many options here. Many decisions. I wouldn’t trade Johnson, and I’d be very cautious about trading Escobar, very cautious. I’d also consider starting Prado and benching Kotchman, and that idea is no shot at Kotchman. I would pursue Dunn, though; he’s a game-changer.

By AdirondackDave

November 12, 2008 4:13 PM | Link to this

What was Hanson’s line for the game?

By David O'Brien

November 12, 2008 4:14 PM | Link to this

Hanson’s final line: Five innings, three hits, one run, one walk, nine strikeouts.

This just in: He’s real good.

He’ll be 4-0 with an 0.76 ERA, with nine hits, two runs, five walks and 39 strikeouts in 23-2/3 innings.

By Ronald Millsaps

November 12, 2008 4:15 PM | Link to this

By the way, the Falcons won’t lose a home game this season, and the Hawks are going to win 60 games. I made the first prediction on the morning of the Bears game and am standing by it.

The Falcons will not just win but dominate Sunday, and the Hawks are going to beat the Celtics tonight.

By Original Jon

November 12, 2008 4:16 PM | Link to this

CameronC I am guessing you do not pay attention to the blog much, but it has been said time and time again that the Braves do not want to convert Flowers to 1st base and also, Flowers does not want to do that, he wants to catch only.

By David O'Brien

November 12, 2008 4:16 PM | Link to this

Original Jon: Your 4:02 comment is precisely why the Braves won’t trade him. He’s that special, too good a chance he’ll be a dominant major league pitcher for a long time to trade him now, even for a pitcher who is dominant now.

By John

November 12, 2008 4:22 PM | Link to this

hey DOB,

Ok. Although many baseball executives and many others believe we, the Braves, are in the lead for Peavy, recent happenings are making me lean toward the Cubs acquiring him. They keep wanting MORE MORE MORE. Has the news of the Padres wanting Flowers made you change your opinion also????????:???????

By Johnny B

November 12, 2008 4:23 PM | Link to this

Hey DOB great post today and story yesterday on Flowers.

I realize with busy with all that’s going on , just curious if you’ve heard anything about how all the rehabs are coming along?

By doc

November 12, 2008 4:25 PM | Link to this

dob, that is double filth there. what is the record ratio for innings to strikeouts in that league? he sounds more like a phenom doing it in a high school game than against other professionals. if wren serves him up those are grounds for commitment.

By Interested Observer

November 12, 2008 4:27 PM | Link to this

With Hanson dominating the AFL as he is, is there any benefit for him to keep pitching? Maybe he’d be better off resting his arm and getting ready for his first big league season.

By CameronC.

November 12, 2008 4:30 PM | Link to this

Tyler Flowers went deep again, 2 HRs Today, 9 for the Fall. Dang this kid is good.

By DAP

November 12, 2008 4:30 PM | Link to this

john They [the padres] keep wanting MORE MORE MORE.

why does this make you think the cubs will get him? they have less to offer than we do.

By siskel

November 12, 2008 4:31 PM | Link to this

DOB

Do the Braves have Brandon Jones in their long term plans? I know he struggled a bit last year in Richmond but he was pretty good at times for us this year. What about Todd Redmond? That guy had some really good numbers at Mississippi but I have never seen him throw a ball so just curious about some of the other guys.

By Wilson

November 12, 2008 4:31 PM | Link to this

DOB, how’s Schaeffer doing in winter ball?

By Epinephrine

November 12, 2008 4:31 PM | Link to this

Ugh I would love for our rotation next year to be:

Peavy, Acquisition, Jurrjens, and the best of Morton, Hanson, Mapton, and Glavine.

If there was some way to get Peavy without giving up Morton (Reyes instead) I’d be a happy camper.

By Mike

November 12, 2008 4:32 PM | Link to this

DOB, not sure if I like your blog more about the Braves or the music picks…Isbell’s Siren in the Ditch is in heavy rotation in my car…great disc…keep it coming dude.

By Jeff

November 12, 2008 4:34 PM | Link to this

Georgia boy Flowers now leads the AFL in homers, he hit a 2-run shot this time, his second HR of the game.

By AdirondackDave

November 12, 2008 4:39 PM | Link to this

Hey guys, where are you seeing the Arizona game??

By JimD

November 12, 2008 4:39 PM | Link to this

Ronald Millsaps I’d return next season with a rotation of Smoltz, Jurrjens, Campillo, Hampton, and Glavine, with Hudson returning in August.

YAI!!!!!!

Smoltz - not even a given that he will pitch in 09, if so 99% change it is out of bullpen

Campillo - expecting a lot out of a one year wonder who was beginning to show signs of being figured out at year’s end.

Hampton - really?

Glavine - again, not even sure he will pitch in 09.

Hudson - returning in August? Sure about that? Too risky to count on anything substantive from Timmy in 09.

Adam Dunn - the reason he grounds into few DPs is because he Ks so much.

I tell you what, the best bet for the Braves in 09 is for you to become the GM in either Phillie or NY.

By Original Jon

November 12, 2008 4:39 PM | Link to this

Yeah DOB, you are totally correct. You know, I cannot remember the last time we had a prospect pitcher coming up that was this dominant in all levels. Can you?

By rainman34

November 12, 2008 4:41 PM | Link to this

DOB how about sheff for left. we could get him for very little and even get the tigers to pick up part of his contract.

By Novice Ned

November 12, 2008 4:41 PM | Link to this

What’s the deal with Jorge Julio… has he been invited to spring training (or did he sign a long-term contract with us)? And how about our other injured pitchers… Lerew & Chuck James? Are they in the picture to compete for a roster spot next season?

By Horner's Corner

November 12, 2008 4:42 PM | Link to this

DOB – Has there been talk of offering the Padres additional pitching rather than Esco? There’s Jo-Jo, Morton, Chuck James, James Parr, Todd Redmond, Kris Medlen, Ryne Renoso, Scott Diamond, Cole Rohrbough, Jeff Locke and others to choose from. How about offering a combination of three pitchers along with either Gorky or Schafer? This would save Esco and free up Kelly Johnson for a trade with the Cardinals! Just a thought.

By Mark

November 12, 2008 4:44 PM | Link to this

DOB, how would you compare Flowers at this point in his career to Salty when he was at this stage? It seems like they are pretty similar prospects, no?

By MGL

November 12, 2008 4:45 PM | Link to this

AdirondackDave - If you go to the AFL site (google arizona fall league) there is a link in the upper right to Gameday for the day’s games.

By Charles

November 12, 2008 4:47 PM | Link to this

“The Best of Morton, Hanson, Hampton and Glavine” sounds like a great CD! Reminds me of Crosby, Stills, Nash, and Young.

By Epinephrine

November 12, 2008 4:48 PM | Link to this

Original Jon,

His name was Chuck James. But that isn’t fair because they are completely different pitchers. Still, James did have silly stats.

By ncscoots

November 12, 2008 4:49 PM | Link to this

Schafer’s hitting in the .280s in 100 or so AB, not slugging that much, running a little more (8-for-9 in 20+ games), and still a little light against LHP. I believe he’s hitting at the top of the order, mostly, for Navajoa, and the Braves could have told him to work on that part of his game, I suppose. I don’t think his power is in question.

By LKS

November 12, 2008 4:52 PM | Link to this

Joe M

Lilli better than the 3rd best defensive ss in the majors….LOL. Yeah right. I am not saying lilli is Bad defensively, he is quite good, but not NEAR as good as Escobar…and I watched them both play. there were several games I went to crushed Yunel wasn’t playing…and Lilli did alright but there were also plenty of plays where I said dang if Esco would be playing that would have been an out!

I was just pointing out that by what Bowman said we would be STUPID to trade Yunel. I want Peavy but for the price of prospects not the 3rd best ss!

By Horner's Corner

November 12, 2008 4:52 PM | Link to this

To Ronald Millsaps-

Your entire off season plan is to sign Juan Cruz and Adam Dunn?? That may be the worst retooling plan in the history of baseball!!

By Kentavo

November 12, 2008 4:53 PM | Link to this

I say sell high on Flowers; let the trade be him and Yuni straight up for the Peavster.

Are Padres scouts there today at the AFL game?

By Interested Observer

November 12, 2008 4:53 PM | Link to this

The Yanks just resigned Damaso Marte for 3 years/$12 million. Gives you an idea of what Ohman can expect.

By David O'Brien

November 12, 2008 4:54 PM | Link to this

Flowers is a beast, plain and simple. His second two-homer game of the fall. Now tied for the league lead with nine.

MAKE THAT 10. As I was typing the above sentence, he just crushed a line-drive homer out, down the left-field line. Three homers, seven RBI today, are you freakin’ SERIOUS?

That’s a league-high 10 homers this fall, in JUST 62 AT-BATS!

By CameronC.

November 12, 2008 4:54 PM | Link to this

TYLER FLOWERS JUST WENT DEEP FOR THE 3RD TIME TODAY. 7 RBIS!! DAMN!!! THIS GUY IS NOT HUMAN!!

By jhughes

November 12, 2008 4:55 PM | Link to this

DOB any chance the braves are interested in casey blake for the outfield?

By Joe M.

November 12, 2008 4:55 PM | Link to this

Re: Adam Dunn,

People need to stop being ignorant about him and baseball in general. The only legit gripe about him is his poor defense, but it is not a huge deal considering Dunn plays left field. His strikeouts and batting average are irrelevant.

Anyone who gets on base over 38% of the time and slugs 40 homeruns and slugs over .500 for his career is a great ballplayer and would be a gigantic improvement over anything the Braves currently have in their outfield.

There are plenty of .300 hitters who don’t get on-base near as much as Dunn. But people who are, frankly, stupid about baseball think they’re better than Adam Dunn because of meaningless batting average. What counts is OBP, not batting average. Dunn has a career .381 OBP.

By macdwolfpack

November 12, 2008 4:56 PM | Link to this

DOB, Watching the Gameday ticker with Hanson, Young, and Flowers on one team versus Head, Hodges, and Beau Mills on the other is a replay of the Kinston versus Myrtle Beach games this year. More amazing is that Beau Mills was Kinston’s MVP and Carolina League MVP and those guys have seen Hanson twice this year and still can’t hit him the second or third time around.

By McFann O –[zzz]

November 12, 2008 4:56 PM | Link to this

Thanks for the new Blog, DOB!

SaveFlowers what if McCann pulls a Francoeur and can’t hit nearly as well with his changed body?

See, the difference between McCann now and Francoeur last year is that Francoeur did like, no hitting during the off-season (or so I heard…somewhere), and he said it was a huge mistake. McCann’s gonna start hitting next month, and he’s gonna start fielding next month, too.

Now I have a question for you: Did you ever hear of a Major-Leaguer who got worse because he lost weight?

By Epinephrine

November 12, 2008 4:56 PM | Link to this

Flowers has three home runs today. Wow.

By Ethan

November 12, 2008 4:57 PM | Link to this

FLOWERS HAS 3 HR AND 7 RBI TODAY

By AdirondackDave

November 12, 2008 4:57 PM | Link to this

MGL — Many thanks for the Ariz. Fall League tip.

By MBPelican

November 12, 2008 4:57 PM | Link to this

3HR today so far for Flowers, 7 RBI, that is 10 HR on the season in the AFL for Flowers.

By David O'Brien

November 12, 2008 4:59 PM | Link to this

Damn, I show up last fall and Charlie throws five no-hit innings, and this fall Hanson and Flowers completely dominate a game.

That last homer by Flowers, I’m telling you, it was a missile down the left-field line, looked like it had no chance to stay fair, but did.

He’s hit three opposite-field homers this fall, a couple to straight center, the rest to left. And don’t forget, he hit two others off the batter’s eye that would be homers in a regular park, but were turned to triples here (screen is attached to the fence here), and hit another in the All-Star Game.

By McFann O –[!!]

November 12, 2008 5:01 PM | Link to this

Rotty If McCann drops in April…

Well, that’s a nice way of putting it…

Too much talk about “if McCann gets hurt and has to be out a month or more”…I’m with Yars:

Gotta think positive in that McCann won’t get hurt & miss a lot of games.

By macdwolfpack

November 12, 2008 5:03 PM | Link to this

Damn! Flowers with 3 homers in todays game!

By CameronC.

November 12, 2008 5:03 PM | Link to this

WOW!!

Tyler Flowers Has Hit 3 Bombs Today And Has 7 RBIs. Thats 10 Homeruns in 62 At Bats In The Fall League. So Im Guessing His Trade Value Just Keeps Going Up, And Up!!

By ncscoots

November 12, 2008 5:04 PM | Link to this

I cannot remember the last time we had a prospect pitcher coming up that was this dominant in all levels. Can you?

Oh, sure. How does 2.92 career ERA with a 1.22 WHIP sound? Age 19 at low A - 2.89; age 20 at high A - 2.63; age 21 at AAA - 3.44. Then on to the bigs.

Kyle Davies.

Disclaimer: I’m not comparing Davies and Hanson. But Davies looked like a man among boys in the minors, even playing above age-level.

By nolie

November 12, 2008 5:12 PM | Link to this

Looks like the Yanks signed Marte for 3 years and 12 mil. plus an option year. not looking all that good for Ohman and the Braves, though as I’ve said a few times I doubt they will re-sign Will unless he accepts a below average contract

By Nelson

November 12, 2008 5:12 PM | Link to this

Um so about trading flowers

3HR and 7 RBIs Today. Can we keep him please?

By John

November 12, 2008 5:13 PM | Link to this

hey DOB,

Ok. Although many baseball executives and many others believe we, the Braves, are in the lead for Peavy, recent happenings are making me lean toward the Cubs acquiring him. They keep wanting MORE MORE MORE. Has the news of the Padres wanting Flowers made you change your opinion also????????:???????

By propp

November 12, 2008 5:13 PM | Link to this

have to agree with Joe M. Dunn is possibly the best option within reason, but it doesn’t appear that he is anywhere close to being on the Braves radar. too bad….any word on the Japanse pitcher the Braves offered a contract to?

By macdwolfpack

November 12, 2008 5:13 PM | Link to this

ncscoots, I saw both Davies and Hanson, Davies isn’t close to looking like Hanson at this level. Like comparing Paul Byrd and Hamels.

By atown

November 12, 2008 5:14 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Great song choice! I’ve always thought he was the most talented of the DBT and was not surprised he left. Still a great band, though.

By nolie

November 12, 2008 5:15 PM | Link to this

DOB, how would you compare Flowers at this point in his career to Salty when he was at this stage? It seems like they are pretty similar prospects, no?Mark

I’m not DOB, but I’ve seen them both at about the same stage and Flowers is a better hitter and fielder at the same point.

By lol ncscoots

November 12, 2008 5:16 PM | Link to this

Yep scoots….. lets see how they do it with the big boys,then we can celebrate.

By KC

November 12, 2008 5:17 PM | Link to this

I mentioned this late last night… Well, early this morning, actually (when most sane people are asleep)…

Did anyone see that “3 Questions” video piece on the Braves’ website. The guy giving his analysis was obviously talking out of his >]’&$;”=”!!

He started out by talking about Jair Jergens (that’s how he pronounced it).

He then went on to say “what the Braves need to do [with their pitching] is get younger, and they know they’re going to have to take their lumps in doing so.”

Right. The Braves have resigned themselves to filling the rotation with farm hands, and are prepared to take their lumps as they wait for them to develop. That is… Except for their fervent pursuit of Jake Peavy, Lowe, Burnett, and Dempster… And their intent to resign Hampton.

Aside from those things, he’s right on.

And then there was my favorite line of the whole piece…

…the outfield really isn’t a priority for the Braves because they don’t want to spend a lot of money. Look for Josh Anderson to play an increased role.

Aside from the Braves publicly stated mission of picking up a legit middle-of-the-order bat for the outfield, he’s right on there as well.

It was like this guy showed up for the taping unprepared, and had to make stuff up as he went along. I was embarrassed for him.

By N8

November 12, 2008 5:18 PM | Link to this

Scoots, good point about Davies, (ERA wise anyhow). But the difference, at least so far is the K rate and the fact that Hanson allegedly has 4+ pitches.

Davies had two. Fastball, Change-up.

I will always be weary of a young guy that pitches to contact in the minors and has + results. Usually it’s due to younger hitters not being patient enough to not only take the ball the other way, but drive it there.

But your point is definitely a good one.

DOB

Any chance of Flowers’ stock rising so much that Towers would “settle” for Flowers, Morton, Gorkys and maybe another pitcher instead of demanding Yunel?

I’ll assume that it won’t, but DAMN! It sounds like that kid sure can hit.

By beachcomber

November 12, 2008 5:18 PM | Link to this

All this talk about the phenom in the Arizona League.

I’m late posting this but I’m today remembering a phenom from my youth - one Herbert Jude Score who in 1955 and 56 was as good a pitcher as there ever was.

His courageous fight back from that 1957 injury and other tragedies he endured in his personal life are an inspiration to me to this day.If ever there was a guy who was cheated out of the Hall of Fame by fate, it was Herb Score.

Rest in peace Herb.

By Dan in NJ

November 12, 2008 5:20 PM | Link to this

Lets keep all these prospects. Sign Dempster or AJ. Sign Lowe Trade KJ to the cards for Luda. (would BC call him that?)

How much would that cost? I believe less then whats availble (40+mil) which then the extra $$$ could go towards the pen ( Ohman or some other lefty) or bench players if needed. Plus the Braves all these prospects for a trade if needed come July. Esp.with Flowers increasing his value by the minute could land someone great in the future. what do you guys think?

By robert

November 12, 2008 5:24 PM | Link to this

Time for the Braves to get some forsight and have a highly successful Minor League catcher switch positions. Tyler Flowers can hit, bats RH which is exactly what the Braves need. He works for the Braves, so I could care less what position he wants to play. 1B or LF is the quickest way to get his bat to Atlanta

By Braveheart

November 12, 2008 5:24 PM | Link to this

His name was Chuck James. But that isn’t fair because they are completely different pitchers. Still, James did have silly stats.

Everyone dogs Chuck James but this is how he did through his first 39 starts of his major league career until he tore his rotator cuff in early August 2007:

39 starts, 19 wins, 12 losses, 3.73 ERA, 224 innings, 170 Ks, 91 walks, 213 hits

Chuck wasn’t just a minor league fluke. He had some good success in the majors. Compare the results of Chuck’s first 39 starts to the results of the first 38 starts of Jair Jurrjens in the majors:

38 starts, 16 wins, 11 losses, 3.82 ERA, 219 innings, 152 Ks, 81 walks, 212 hits

Folks cry about Wainwright but compare Wainwright’s first 39 starts:

39 starts, 17 wins, 13 losses, 3.40 ERA, 254 innings, 172 Ks, 82 walks, 250 hits

I’d take what Chuck did in his first 39 starts from Hanson, Jurrjens or Morton/Reyes next season. I just hope Tommy doesn’t tear his cuff like Chuck did and that Tommy’s more mentally tough and astute than Chuck so that he continues to grow beyond the initial success. From what they say, it sounds like he is. Chuck just hit a wall physically and mentally that he may never overcome but until he got hurt he was better than alot of folks like to remember.

By Jeff

November 12, 2008 5:26 PM | Link to this

DOB:

As I’ve said, I believe Esco, Hanson and Flowers are special talents. I wouldn’t trade any of those three. They would lead my list of untouchables. I hope Wren thinks the same way (I hope the media is wrong in their rumors, it certainly wouldn’t be a first), time will tell.

However, for Peavy I’d be willing to trade KJ, Schafer, Medlen, among others. But Wren should just say no to including Hanson, Flowers and Esco.

PS: I’ve seen both Hanson and Flowers play in the minors, among other Braves prospects. I also was impressed by his play in 2008 Spring Training too.

By James Munson

November 12, 2008 5:32 PM | Link to this

DOB, any chance the Braves can get in on Garrett Atkins? Hes a rihthanded hitter, 21 hrs and 99 rbi last season. Id like to see him in left. Ryan Braun made the transition from 3rd to Left pretty easilly.

By SaveFlowers

November 12, 2008 5:32 PM | Link to this

We need Flowers growing in left field to improve the scenery. . He moves well enough to play it without too much trouble. He is a monster with a great swing!!!

By N8

November 12, 2008 5:33 PM | Link to this

Dan in NJ

I totally agree with you. The problem is there is certainly ZERO guarantee of landing one of the guys you mentioned much less two of them.

This market is THIN for quality pitching and people are going to overpay for it.

So if Wren passes on Peavy and then Burnett, Lowe and Dempster ALL pass on the Braves, then what?

I’m on record as saying….so what? Sign some stop-gap guys (Hampton? Glavine & Smoltz if they’re pitching) perhaps somebody else, trade KJ for Ludwick and ride 2009 out and go from there.

If Hanson has anything CLOSE to the type of season as JJJ, that would be a very nice 1-2 punch for the future. Add Hudson into the mix in 2010 and voila! A top three that could contend with anybody.

Add to that, Flowers, Gorkys AND Escobar would still be wearing a Tomahawk across their chests.

But nobody else seems to be on board with that.

Hell, if that is too much of Wren “sitting on his hands” for you. He can go ALL OUT after Lowe, Dempster or Burnett, giving us our ACE until Hudson comes back in 2010 along with Hanson and JJJ.

We might not win the East with only trading KJ for Ludwick and siging ONE starting pitcher, but we certainly would be a better team than the past two seasons.

Sh!t or get off the pot Wren. You’re killing me Smalls!

By Klstreet

November 12, 2008 5:33 PM | Link to this

DOB,

With Flowers coming up and McCann already in the majors, where are the Braves going to put to Flowers? McCann and Flowers both love catching, his bat seems too valuable not to use in the lineup.

By James Munson

November 12, 2008 5:33 PM | Link to this

On another Atkins note, once Chipper calls it a career, he could come right back to the infield.

By AdirondackDave

November 12, 2008 5:34 PM | Link to this

Beachcomber — Excellent note on Herb Score. I also remember him and his difficulties. I’ve thought all these years that he certainly was on his way to being another Bob Fellar or even better. He took his problems with remarkable grace.

By nolie

November 12, 2008 5:38 PM | Link to this

He works for the Braves, so I could care less what position he wants to play. 1B or LF is the quickest way to get his bat to AtlantaRobert

This is likely a first, but I agree with you on this one. I’m sure the guy could play LF.and I’ve been bragging on him for months , and I’m not a prospect-hugger.

By Deion Sanders

November 12, 2008 5:39 PM | Link to this

Where’s McCarver?

By Bobby's Cox

November 12, 2008 5:39 PM | Link to this

Because pitching to Ryan Howard is just a wee bit different than pitching to Head (the DH). Scoots

I disagree scoots. Not that pitching to Head is different than pitching to Howard, but if you’re going to assume Hanson will struggle then ya I’ll take the other side.

When a minor leaguer has that ratio of K’s to IP and BB, he’s nearly a can’t miss major league talent. David Price, Joba, etc…guys that K a enormous amount of batters in the minors, are pretty darn good at doing it in the majors as well - especially when they have the confidence to go along with the skill.

By Joe M.

November 12, 2008 5:40 PM | Link to this

Hanson and Davies seems like a fair comparison. Both were/are heavily-hyped. Both were/are considered future top-of-the-rotation pitchers. The Braves refused to trade either for a proven #1 (the Braves declared Davies untouchable in the Tim Hudson trade, Hanson in the still on-going Peavy trade talks). Both are right-handed, throw hard and have quality curveballs.

By AdirondackDave

November 12, 2008 5:41 PM | Link to this

Jeff —- Right on. Keep Escobar, if they don’t want Johnson than move on. This is not just about ‘09, these young guys are the foundation for something really special for the next decade.

By James

November 12, 2008 5:42 PM | Link to this

Sign Peavy, sign Lowe, sign Edgar.

I’d also like to see JA in CF and GB in LF next season. Would be like a return to the early 90s with some speed out there…provided Bobby will let them steal…

By Frustrated

November 12, 2008 5:43 PM | Link to this

Why am I frustrated? Because of Tyler Flowers! Salty wasn’t the young phenom he was cracked up to be, but he is still young and may still yet be a good big league player some day. In essence, the jury is still out.

Flowers is labeled as another guy who has huge potential and who is blocked by McCann. What if Flowers IS what Salty was supposed to be? Do you keep him as a trade pawn like you did Salty? Do you stand by your position that his future is as a catcher and so you keep him behind the plate and not EVEN CONSIDER giving him some reps at first base?

C’mon! The Braves are power starved! The guy may not be ready in 2009, but if he is for real, do you send him off for Peavy or another 18 month rental like Tex at the deadline?

I ain’t no big league GM, but if Flowers turns out to be the real deal, you’re going to keep him in a position where he will be blocked for years, rather than teach him to play first and try to get his bat to the bigs?

Give me the guy who can hit with authority, and I’ll find a place for him to play!

By nolie

November 12, 2008 5:44 PM | Link to this

On another Atkins note, once Chipper calls it a career, he could come right back to the infieldJames

he’s a .260/.328 hitter away from Coors. That ain’t all that great. I’m thinking we can do better.

By James

November 12, 2008 5:46 PM | Link to this

Horner’s Corner—

You are putting someone else’s ideas down yet you do not know the difference between “you’re” and “your?”

Unbelievable!

By Nelson

November 12, 2008 5:46 PM | Link to this

DOB Is it really worth trading Flowers when Hernandez and Locke could finish the deal??

By Nate

November 12, 2008 5:47 PM | Link to this

There’s no such thing as a can’t miss prospect. If flowers value is high right now, then it seems like a good time to trade him. Especially since he’s blocked by McCann.

By big o

November 12, 2008 5:48 PM | Link to this

What up DOB ? Loved the tune from Mon. Sun down it’s a classic. Although when it came out I was 10 and could not fully appreciate the lyrics. Anyhoo.. I hope the braves trade K.J not Y.E. and they better not trade Flowers or Hanson. Have you heard anything about this Japenese pitcher? Is he really that good ? Hanson good ?

By Joe M.

November 12, 2008 5:48 PM | Link to this

We might not win the East with only trading KJ for Ludwick and siging ONE starting pitcher, but we certainly would be a better team than the past two seasons.

Bull. Better than 2008 maybe, but better than the 84-win 2007 Atlanta Braves? Heck no.

By Steve from OH

November 12, 2008 5:49 PM | Link to this

DOB, did you happen to be at the Mesa game yesterday? Because Medlen, Marek and Heath all pitched, and I was wondering what you thought of them.

By AdirondackDave

November 12, 2008 5:53 PM | Link to this

One more thought… drop any notion of trading Flowers. Keep him and allow him to develop in ST and in AAA in ‘09. Bring him up if Mac has an injury. When he’s clearly ready for the majors, convince both Flowers and Mac that their careers can be extended ‘til their 40s IF THEY SHARE catching duties and first base when they are not catching. In the meantime Kotchman takes care of first until Flowers is ready. This is the kind of tough leadership that Cox and Wren get paid for.

By David O'Brien

November 12, 2008 5:55 PM | Link to this

Flowers hit three homers off three different pitchers, and I just talked to him after game. Said he’s just not missing pitches, seeing the ball and not missing. He thinks that adjustment, getting his hands up higher before he swings, has really helped him. Has 10 homers in barely 60 at-bats here, after having 17 in over 400 at-bats at Myrtle this year. Go figure….

Just talked to an AL scout who’s seen Hanson three times this fall and simply raved about the guy. Loves his presence, his quick arm (Hanson has this little flick of the arm as it comes past his body, hard to describe), his fastball (up to 94-95 at times), his slider (buckles left-handers), his competitiveness (everyone says that about him).

Oh, and the same scout said Renteria looked very old and/or injured and out of shape this year.

By Braveheart

November 12, 2008 5:57 PM | Link to this

When a minor leaguer has that ratio of K’s to IP and BB, he’s nearly a can’t miss major league talent. David Price, Joba, etc…guys that K a enormous amount of batters in the minors, are pretty darn good at doing it in the majors as well - especially when they have the confidence to go along with the skill.

Bobby’s, here is a list from 2003 of the AA K9 leaders:

http://minors.baseball-reference.com/pitch_leaders.cgi?yid=2003&lvl=AA&lid=&sort=SOp9

How many of those guys are ruling the majors right now?

By Jeff

November 12, 2008 5:59 PM | Link to this

AdirondackDave:

Amen!

By Salty (Clemson Alum, too)

November 12, 2008 5:59 PM | Link to this

The thought of an experienced Jurrjens, a confident Morton, and a developed Hanson is, well, kinda tingly, I’ll admit. Even for practical, realistic guys.

Scoots…you know any practical, realistic guys? Here, on the MIB Blog…during ‘Hot Stove Season’? LOL!

By Braveheart

November 12, 2008 6:00 PM | Link to this

Bobby’s:

Here is the AA K9 list from 2002.

http://minors.baseball-reference.com/pitch_leaders.cgi?yid=2002&lvl=AA&lid=&sort=SOp9

You see Jake, Harden and Lee but who are the rest of those guys?

By Nocturnal Owl

November 12, 2008 6:03 PM | Link to this

Currently laughing at i can’t take it anymore. All that and FA hasn’t started. Hope you survive the entire off-season bud.

By mitchie-san

November 12, 2008 6:04 PM | Link to this

After today’s performance, I think Flowers just got himself put on the untouchables list. I really hope we keep this guy and see what kind of hitter he will become….wow.

By Braveheart

November 12, 2008 6:05 PM | Link to this

Bobby’s:

Here’s the 2001 AA K9 leaders:

http://minors.baseball-reference.com/pitch_leaders.cgi?yid=2001&lvl=AA&lid=&sort=SOp9

You see Josh Beckett but who are the rest of those fellas?

Here’s the 2000 AA K9 leaders:

http://minors.baseball-reference.com/pitch_leaders.cgi?yid=2000&lvl=AA&lid=&sort=SOp9

Oswalt and Sabathia are there but who are the rest of them?

By mbatl

November 12, 2008 6:05 PM | Link to this

There’s no such thing as a can’t miss prospect. If flowers value is high right now, then it seems like a good time to trade him. Especially since he’s blocked by McCann.

Nate, it may make sense to trade Flowers while his value is high, but in my opinion, it’s too high right now to “throw him in” to the Peavy deal.

If we’re gonna trade Flowers, we could probably package him with the “leftovers” from among Morton/Reyes, or another prospect, and get a solid player that would help us in 2009.

All that said, I am suffering from a bad case of prospecthuggeritis. I hope Wren is feeling just a twinge of it too.

By Bobby's Cox

November 12, 2008 6:07 PM | Link to this

N8

I’m on board with you.

Escobar just simply cannot, and should not be traded. Period.

Retract the offer even more. KJ, Locke, Medlin, Brandon Jones, and Morton. That’s 5 for 1 - all decent guys who will do good in the weak West. Heck substitute any of those guys with Redmond/Parr.

Make Towers feel dumb for not accepting the previous offer and put even more pressure on him to find a 3rd team for a Cubs deal.

San Diego wants a ML ready guy yet they aren’t going to compete anyway? They can wait for our guys to develop then. What am I missing. If anyone here has been to San Diego games like I have, they’ll be the first to tell you the fans will go to the games no matter what. They don’t need Escobar to sell seats.

San Diego MUST lower payroll because of the owner’s divorce. Peavy MUST approve the trade. The Cubs MUST find a 3rd team. Too many things have to happen, and even if they do, the Braves offer of KJ, Locke, Medlin, Morton, B. Jones, will still be better than others out there.

If it’s not, then you move on, sign Sheets, AJ, Dempster, or Lowe.

$11 mil, plus the salary of a replacement for Escobar, will still be likely be more than what the Braves will have to offer for one of those FA for ‘09. Definitely will be in 2010 when Peavy’s salary jumps to $15 mil.

By geauxbraves2000

November 12, 2008 6:08 PM | Link to this

This is from MLBTR:

*Yahoo’s Tim Brown has an update on the Jake Peavy trade talks, though it’s not very exciting. A Padres exec says the team has options, but nothing is close. The Padres have not yet asked Peavy to approve a trade.

Interesting note from Brown - the Yankees pushed hard, while the Red Sox and Mets “inserted themselves” into the mix.

Brown notes that Peavy would probably want the fifth year of his contract guaranteed upon a trade. At that point it’d be a five-year, $81MM deal. How much worse off would a team be signing a solid free agent starter at a lower price, while preserving the farm system?*

I agree. Maybe it’s time to move on from Peavy and concentrate on a couple of the FA starters available, all while keeping Escobar. Keep the farm intact also for another possible deal down the line.

Okay, time to go home.

Geaux Braves!!

By rammerjammer

November 12, 2008 6:15 PM | Link to this

This is priceless. Big guy has a good few weeks and suddenly he’s untouchable? C’mon. Did you see what DOB wrote? Seventeen HR in 400 AB at Myrtle. Nice. Not untouchable. Now he’s tearing it up in Arizona and SD is drooling. Timing couldn’t be better. Sell high, Frank. Sell high.

By brian

November 12, 2008 6:16 PM | Link to this

after the 3 HR game I ask again, has Flowers played his way into the untouchable category for Braves prospects?

Reading above about Davies stats compared to Hanson’s. Hanson has more plus pitches and more dominant physique, but what really seems to separate Hanson and Davis/Reyes/Morton/etc is the mental aspect of baseball.

All the great ones have that competitiveness. Ask Smoltz!

By john

November 12, 2008 6:18 PM | Link to this

5yrs + $81million + prospects/Yunel + recent injury history

sign CC for 5yrs + $100mil :) wow big number, and we keep Yunel and mow over the NL

By Arm Troubles

November 12, 2008 6:28 PM | Link to this

Is it just me or is anyone else a bit concerned about signing pitching long term to big money? Yep, you have to have pitching to win, but all you have to do is sign some pitcher long term, big money and he is potentially one pitch away from being done! At least with position players, you don’t have to sweat every pitch knowing that at any time they could grab their arm and be done for a long time.

CC has thrown close to 500 innings over the last two years. I wonder just how many pitches are in that arm?

By N8

November 12, 2008 6:29 PM | Link to this

Joe M.

“Bull. Better than 2008 maybe, but better than the 84-win 2007 Atlanta Braves? Heck no.”

Who said anything about inw totals? I didn’t?

Who were the pitchers on that 2007 after Smoltz and Hudson? They were so frickin bad, I don’t even REMEMBER.

Wins are relative to the rest of the division and what division we play in interleague.

There is a VERY good chance that adding ONLY Lowe and Ludwick (along with inserting Hanson into the rotation to go with JJJ), would allow us to field a better TEAM than the 2007 team, and NOT pass the 84 win total, due to the Mets and Phillies still being ahead of us.

Yet a nice foundation would be set for 2010 when Hudson would return, Heyward might be in the OF and Shafer if not already there in 2009 would be up. If he’s up in 2009, then he’d have one more year of experience.

If you think the 84 win team of 2007 was good, more power to you. They stunk.

If you’d like me to get into the impact of having Gonzo healthy for a full year, along with Moylan back in then pen, let me know.

Besides, if we don’t spend all of that money on the rotation, we certainly can afford to bring Ohman back, right?

Smoltz, Glavine and Hampton would be BONUS if they choose to pitch.

Mark it down. If we add one of the bigger named free agent pitchers, and either trade KJ for Ludwick (or somehow add a power hitting OF), this team will be better (and more competitive) than either of the 2007 or 2008 teams.

Injuries withstanding, of course.

By Bobby's Cox

November 12, 2008 6:30 PM | Link to this

Braveheart:

Take a look at the top pitchers in the game today and tell me what their K/BB, K/9 ratios were in their last years in the minors.

You’re trying to do it the other way and I’m not saying EVERY guy who has these ratios are top notch major leaguers.

But, for your time and research, I’ll respond.

Look at the starters or guys that threw over 100 innings, NOT the relievers. In 2003, the man who led that list that was a starter in the minors was Bobby Jenks. He’s one of the premier closers in the game now. The man below him Neal Cotts, is a damn good reliever and the Sox had thoughts of him being their closer to start 2007. The next starters? Ankiel, Denny Bautista (Not known), Chin-hui Tsao, Edwin Jackson, Fernando Cabrera (injury plagued), Cory Stewart (lost it)…etc…

In 2001, if you take the starters, you had Nick Neugebauer (lost to injuries) thenJosh Becket, Justin Duchscherer, etc….

Again, look at the starters, guys who threw over 100 innings not the guys who threw less innings out of the pen.

By lang

November 12, 2008 6:33 PM | Link to this

Braveheart, how many of the K9 leaders are starters, and how many of them has a WHIP as good as Hanson does. We’re not saying Hanson is the 2nd coming, but he IS pretty damn good.

By Not Sold On Ludwick

November 12, 2008 6:37 PM | Link to this

Ludwick….. one good year does not a career make.

By flange1

November 12, 2008 6:40 PM | Link to this

Good Evening All,

Been traveling in Florida with no internet connection this week. Just finished catching up on the old bloggagges….

A couple of comments:

My opinion on the Peavy front is that FW should put a time frame on his Yunel, JoJo or Morton, Gorkys deal. Tell towers no on Flowers for Gorkys and set a Friday at 7:00PM EST deadline.

If the deadline is reached and no deal is made, pull that offer and replace it with Lillibridge, B Jones, JoJo, Locke and Flowers. Give him a time frame on that one.

If Towers wants to counter fine, but it gives you the ability to trade KJ if that is what it takes to get an OF bat.

I read a couple of articles talking about the NL West with the Padres cutting payroll, the D’Backs cutting payroll and the Rockies cutting payroll.

While folks think the Padres have the leverage in this deal, I think they HAVE to trade K Greene, B Giles and Peavy this year and might have to trade A Gonzales and C Young next year. Hoffman has been showed the door as well.

The Padres are becoming the Marlins of the West. They have quality front office people who are hard pressed to accept the change. They need a push to understand that they have little bargaining power and need to take the best offer before it is gone.

In terms of Flowers, it is great to see the success in the AFL. I agree with some earlier that he can become a big trading chip in the future. Unless bowled over with a offer, I would keep him this year and see if he can land us a prize chip at the All- Star break….

By Steve from OH

November 12, 2008 6:42 PM | Link to this

rammerjammer, I think it’s a bit shortsighted to say “sell, sell, sell” on Flowers. In his 3 minor league seasons, he posted lines of .279/.363/.465 (at Danville), .298/.378/.488 (at Rome) and at Myrtle Beach (one of the worst hitters parks in the minors, might I add) .288/.427/.494.

He’s improved in every season, and still posted a very respectable 17 HR in only 400 or so PA at a park that is terribly tough to hit homeruns in. Plus, like DOB has reported, he is a big boy and is prone to hit a few moonshots every now and then. The kid is very underrated. Definintely not a throw-in by any means. Did I mention that he is one of the few A ball prospects in the AFL? He’s dominating prospects at a much higher level than he is.

By hammerjammer

November 12, 2008 6:48 PM | Link to this

Seventeen HR in 400 AB at Myrtle. Nice. Not untouchable.rammer

MB is a pitchers park. there is nothing wrong with a .427 OBP and 17 Hr at MB You should do a little research dude. How many did Heyward the Untoucjable hit this year?

By ncscoots

November 12, 2008 6:50 PM | Link to this

macd, I’ve seen both, too, Davies over three seasons. The post wasn’t to compare Davies and Hanson (didn’t I SAY that?!?), but to point out that he isn’t the first Braves prospect to dominate in the minors. And Davies dominated. That was the point of the exchange.

N8, nice try, but no cigar. Davies had a K ratio of one an inning and a 1.22 WHIP in the minors. That ain’t “pitching to contact”.

if you’re going to assume Hanson will struggle then ya I’ll take the other side.

I don’t even have to look it up to tell you that Tim Lincecum took some beatings in his first 15 or 20 starts. So will Hanson. That does not diminish his talent, or his long-term viability. But to pencil him for ROY and the Cy and a starring role in his own autobiographical movie might be a tad optimistic, LOL. And there are plenty here who are ready to do just that. :-)

By David O'Brien

November 12, 2008 6:50 PM | Link to this

Steve from OH: Very good points on Flowers (6:42 p.m.). I agree with you.

By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)

November 12, 2008 6:51 PM | Link to this

Not to point out the obvious, but do most fans know what Ryan Howard, Chase Utley, Adam Eaton, Brett Myers, Kyle Kendrick, Jimmy Rollins, Pat Burrell and Cole Hamels all have in common? And no it’s not that they all play for the Phillies, even though it is technically the right answer.

They were all drafted and developed through the Phillies farm system. All eight are front line players. Also, there are eight former 1st round draft picks picks on the Philadelphia roster.

Any questions?

By Braveone

November 12, 2008 6:55 PM | Link to this

Comparing Salty’s 2005 season at the Beach to Flowers 2008 season: Salty vs Flowers Age:20 vs 22, G:129 vs 122, AVG:314 vs 288, OBP:394 vs 427,SLG:519 vs 494, OPS:913 vs 921, AB:459 vs 413, R:70 vs 72, H: 144 vs 119, 2B:35 vs 32, HR:19 vs 17, RBI:81 vs 88, BB:57 vs 98, SO:99 vs 102 Summary: Salty was about 2 years younger than Flowers & had a higher BA & little higher SLG. Flowers had many more walks leading to a much higher OBP & a higher OPS. I would say that Flowers had the better season between the two. I hope the Braves do not trade Flowers as they did Salty.

By Not Sold On Ludwick Too

November 12, 2008 6:56 PM | Link to this

Why the heck would anyone want to give up anything of value for Ryan Ludwick’s flash-in-the-pan 2008 performance, especially when that was really his only good year and he is on the wrong side of 30?

By cabravesfan

November 12, 2008 6:57 PM | Link to this

flange1

While it is obvious that the Padres have to cut salary they do not appear to be ready to move into Marlins territory just yet- they did not have to pick up Giles $9 million option- but they did; Adrian Gonzalez is scheduled to make a very reasonable $3 mill this year and $4.5 next- I don’t see them parting with him before then (and his 2011 option is only $5.5 million- cheap for an all-star calibur 1st baseman)- dumping Greene seems likely (especially if they manage to land Escobar) and I don’t think I need to comment on Peavy…so while they are not in the best position to bargin I don’t think they are ready to fully commit to dumping all their hagh salary guys

By Jeff

November 12, 2008 6:58 PM | Link to this

Good job by Steve from OH setting rammerjammer straight regarding the ballpark at Myrtle Beach in South Carolina.

To sum it up, rammerjammer obviously doen’t know what he’s talking about regarding Flowers.

PS: I am not against selling high, I was for trading Salty before I heard others suggesting it. But I never was sold on Salty like most were. I am sold on Tyler Flowers however.

By propp

November 12, 2008 7:00 PM | Link to this

Coach- that is the same thing as Steve Avery, Tom Glavine, Ron Gant, Dave Justice, Andruw and Chipper, Wohlers, Klesko, Lemke….

By David O'Brien

November 12, 2008 7:00 PM | Link to this

J.M.: You asked about Matt Young. He’s a scrappy little — and I mean tiny — player who’s comparable to Pete Orr, quick enough to steal bases and could play a couple of positions well enough to be a big-league utility man probably. He’s made an impression out here.

Did I mention he’s about 5-7. No kidding. No taller than that. He’s shorter than Marcus Giles, by a good inch.

By flange1

November 12, 2008 7:03 PM | Link to this

Coach,

Your point at 6:51 is?

The Phillies have a nice farm system?

They made good choices with their number 1’s?

They did not trade their number 1’s?

Are you sure you want to include Adam Eaton and Kyle Kendrick on that list?

Yes, Many questions!!!

By Bobby's Cox

November 12, 2008 7:05 PM | Link to this

Scoots,

agreed.

I often admire your humor when you try to prove our point. Well said though on the last post.

By David O'Brien

November 12, 2008 7:08 PM | Link to this

Beautiful scene here, looking out at pressbox at the moon rising above the desert mountains in the distance. Sun hasn’t set, but the moon is full and hanging above those rugged orange/brown mountains….

DannyFish, Heyward’s only spent a few weeks above low-A (got promoted to high-A at end of the season). No way he’s considered for big-league job out of spring training. Probably needs two more years in minors.

By flange1

November 12, 2008 7:08 PM | Link to this

cabravesfan,

What I have read is indicating that they picked up the option on Giles to try to trade him. He will have to waive his no trade to certain teams.

Other articles indicate that this year is the first of 2 or 3 of cost cutting. I will try to find links and post them.

It would not surprise me to see and ownership change after the divorce of principal owner Moores….

I think the dump is just beginning. It would not surprise me to see Towers and Sandy Alderson jump ship..

Only my opinion. Let me look for those stories……..

By Steve C.

November 12, 2008 7:09 PM | Link to this

I just have this feeling that somehow or another, when and if this trade gets completed, that we will be sitting here about 2 years from now, going on about what a great trade this was for the Braves. Whether we gave up Locke, or Flowers, or Gorkys, or some combination of the 2, along with Yunel and Morton, we are getting back someone, barring injury, that is no doubt one of the best of the ACES in the game. Not just one of the best pitchers, but one of the best of the best. You got to give up something to get something, and I feel that replacing a starting shortstop is far easier than replacing an Ace, who is locked up below-market for 4 years!?! (though I know that has been discussed ad nauseum now for the last month).

By JoeBrave

November 12, 2008 7:10 PM | Link to this

Personally,If Towers,and Peavy have’nt given an answer by 12:00pm Thursday, I say tell them to stick it so far up their backside they’ll both know what each other had for lunch.. Not overpay huh??? 3 players of the Ilk the Braves are offering, is plenty for a once a week employee.

By ncscoots

November 12, 2008 7:12 PM | Link to this

If nolie thinks Flowers can play LF, then so be it, I’m sold. I can’t really imagine Tyler “gliding” to the ball, but, hey, LOL…

One more year catching at AA, so he can concentrate on his swing against better pitching, then give him a new glove and remind him that “shagging” is not just a dance.

By mbatl

November 12, 2008 7:24 PM | Link to this

Lou Piniella calls rumors of the Cubs trading for Peavy “a lot talk” and according to Cafardo, “It’s clear Piniella doesn’t feel the Cubs need more pitching, but rather they need hitting”.

Ouch, Mr. Towers. That can’t help your negotiations with Atlanta too much.

By BravesFanInRockies

November 12, 2008 7:33 PM | Link to this

flange1,

That’s what I’ve been reading about Giles too. They picked up his option so they could trade him.

He does have that NTC, but could he be persuaded to go to Atlanta? And should the Braves pursue him?

He’s no Manny, or even Adam Dunn (though he does bring other skills —speed, defense — Dunn lacks). He’d be a lot cheaper. Ahd he’s an on-base machine who can mash away from Petco.

By ncscoots

November 12, 2008 7:34 PM | Link to this

Scoots…you know any practical, realistic guys? Here, on the MIB Blog…during ‘Hot Stove Season’? LOL!

Just nolie and me.

And I ain’t all that sure about me. :-)

By BravesFanInRockies

November 12, 2008 7:34 PM | Link to this

mbatl,

That’s hysterical.

By Austin Powers

November 12, 2008 7:37 PM | Link to this

“shagging”…YEAH BABY

By rotty

November 12, 2008 7:41 PM | Link to this

Everyone wants to play at their position but I suspect more want to make it to the bigs.

Flowers and or McCann are kids who love their gigs, want to keep them but I suspect what to play in the bigs and help their team win more.

Either one (the new fit McCann) or Flowers given time can handle 1B.

If Flowers stays a Brave they will find a way to get that bat into the line up.

Perhaps backing up 1B and Catcher with pinch hitting in between or covering a spot for during DL stints.

Flowers could use some time in AA but I would not be shocked or upset if he gets a call up during the season and once there stays.

It is a good problem to have - monster bat for the future or monster trade piece.

Too bad he cannot play 3B. Between McCann’s off days, Kotch’s potential slumps and Chippers 30 missed games he could play a fair bit.

With such a shallow catching pool in the system they should try to keep Flowers.

In terms of Towers and the bird flipping - the frustrations are linked to his waffling and apparent fibbing re: competitive deals.

He has flip flopped on player packages for a month. Stay cool yes but at some point you have to say “man what are you doing?”

The day or so for before the FA window opens is not the time to try to change the deal. Not when there has been so much back n forth between the teams.

Yes he should try to get the best deal but now he and his FO look to be in disarray.

By David O'Brien

November 12, 2008 7:45 PM | Link to this

Talking to a scout today who thinks Omar Minaya will make a play for Manny, said he’s always liked him, etc. Makes sense, because Omar is always bold and they’ve got revenue streams and a new park on the way.

If they were to get him, that would be bad news for the Toros … er Bravos.

But hey, we can worry about that VORP later. We’ve got a Peavy trade to continue dissecting, and we’ve got to figure out how to get Flowers in the Braves lineup in 2010, and wagers to make on whether Hanson is in the opening-day Braves rotation, and….

By cabravesfan

November 12, 2008 7:59 PM | Link to this

flange1

Don’t disagree about Giles (I have read the same regarding a trade-also read a few that found the pick up a little odd considering…), or the salary dump…but like you said- I don’t think they want to do it all at once-and just can’t see them trading their (very) cheap franchise 1st baseman before his option year is over (of course if the team is sold all bets are off…)

By ncscoots

November 12, 2008 8:00 PM | Link to this

Shaun, how stand you on the blog utilization of “VORP” for things other than, well, VORP? You OK with it, or does it buzz in your head like the dichotomy of parsing the logic of the Laws Of Robotics?

Just VORPin’ with ya, man.

By john

November 12, 2008 8:02 PM | Link to this

hey DOB,

Ok. Although many baseball executives and many others believe we, the Braves, are in the lead for Peavy, recent happenings are making me lean toward the Cubs acquiring him. They keep wanting MORE MORE MORE. Has the news of the Padres wanting Flowers made you change your opinion also????????:???????

By Bubdylan

November 12, 2008 8:03 PM | Link to this

There is a part of me that thinks (hopes?) Manny with the Mets would be a catastrophe. From sunny Hollywood to that pressure cooker? In the middle of their most tense predicament? Oh my.

I know, probably the reality is that no matter the amount of tension, the skill sets of Wright, Reyes, Beltran, Santana, and Manny would make for an unstoppable force.

But… the Harry Bailey in me (and he takes up a large part) thinks it’ll crumble. Especially without a stern manager.

By nolie

November 12, 2008 8:05 PM | Link to this

If nolie thinks Flowers can play LF, then so be it, I’m sold. I can’t really imagine Tyler “gliding” to the ball, but, hey, LOLScoots

might not be all that graceful, maybe like Frank Howard if you remember him. Actually it’s impossible to be certain b4 they try it. There are a few guys who just never pick up the skill of judging the ball’s trajectory right off the bat. That would be my main question about him and would not get answered b4 they try.but for a big man he is not that slow and awkward. He11 give it a try, but they prolly won’t.

By 1shoe

November 12, 2008 8:15 PM | Link to this

It is time for the Braves to move on. The Padres have dicked around long enough.

By Efrim

November 12, 2008 8:15 PM | Link to this

Bubdylan

Manny on the Mets would be a catastrophe all right……

Reyes, Beltran, Wright, Manny, Delgado would be some core offense.

Past 2009-2010 it wouldn’t be THAT significant, but geez man, that is bad news. I don’t care how crazy Manny is.

By Joe M.

November 12, 2008 8:16 PM | Link to this

DOB, please tell me the Braves have no interest in Oliver Perez (who sucks.)

This nightmare scenario keeps playing through my mind where the Braves somehow don’t trade for Jake Peavy, and then fail to get any of Lowe, Dempster or Burnett (because richer teams with a better chance of contending in 2009 swamp them) and end up paying Perez some crazy fifteen million dollar (annually) contract.

By ncscoots

November 12, 2008 8:18 PM | Link to this

nolie, I certainly remember Frank Howard, and he was no brick out there, even as big as he was.

As far as picking up the ball off the bat, how ‘bout remind some of our folks here of that little factiod the next time someone thinks LF is as easy as picking up a different glove?

By stamper

November 12, 2008 8:19 PM | Link to this

personally i think we should only give up Escobar and Morton/Reyes. If we’re giving them a prospect, I think we should get one in return.

I get the cost consideration for Peavy… and how he’s basically a bargain… but Escobar is a stud. Reyes and Morton both have tons of potential. I dont see why we should go all crazy here by throwing prospects into the mix.

if the padres dont go for it… so be it. we have many issues to deal with this off season, as it stands. adding another hole onto our team doesn’t necessarily shore us up. instead of looking for 2 pitchers and an outfielder, we’ll be looking for 1 pitcher, an outfielder and a shortstop (preferably one who’s a contact hitter with a cannon of an arm… kinda like the one we sacrificed for a stud pitcher who may/may not be healthy going forward). it’s still 4 players we’re replacing.

i like Peavy, i just don’t know how i feel about these rumors of 3 or 4 guys for Peavy. just doesn’t seem all that smart… there’s no sense overpaying with 3/4 bodies just to get his one arm.

i’m just sayin’

By StingerSplash

November 12, 2008 8:21 PM | Link to this

Reading elsewhere, it appears the marriage between the D-Backs and Randy Johnson could be ending as early as tonight. I’m not generally in favor of signing guys older than me. However …. A trade for Peavy as someone else pointed out on this here blog (forgive me, I can’t recall who it was) would make the Braves very righty heavy (better than being a heavy righty, like Charlie Kerfeld, but I digress, as always). With the Mets having Delgado and being able to turn Reyes and Beltran around and the Phillies with their left-handed pop plus turning Rollins around (making Reyes and Rollins have to go an extra step or two out of the box can be huge), might the Braves be players for a lefty on the market and not just the one or two best pitchers in their price range? Again, with his age and back issues, there is no telling what Big Unit could deliver. But would he be worth the risk, especially if the Braves swung the deal for Peavy? Would that fill their two big arms needs? I say yes and yes. But I ain’t Frank Wren, neither.

By David O'Brien

November 12, 2008 8:21 PM | Link to this

macd, I can only tell you that watching Hanson, you don’t get the same sense that you did watching young Davies. I felt like Davies had good stuff and was a wily guy who located well and wasn’t afraid to go at hitters. But never seemed overpowering, rarely dominant, especaily not against the likes of the prospects that Hanson is mowing down every time out.

Hanson has a presence out there, beginning with the obvious — the 6-foot-6 frame. He’s not skinny like Charlie, doesn’t have that boyish looking face, looks like he’s exactly where he’s supposed to be.

Then there is the stuff. I mean, I saw him throw four very good pitches today — fastball, slider, curve and change. And even after a long season, it’s November and he’s still getting it up to 93-94 (a scout I talked to after the game said he’s had him at 95 mph a few times this fall).

Speaking of scouts, that’s the other thing. They know their stuff, and a couple of them with no reason at all to lavish undue praise on Hanson did so today. When I talked to scouts last year about Schafer and Morton, they were honest about both being very talented guys, but also pointing out the flaws and/or limitations they might have.

Two scouts I talked to today epressed no such reservations about Hanson, either his approach (mentality, presence, aggressiveness, etc) or his stuff. Especially not his stuff. He’s a pretty damn polished guy right now, but a guy who has four pitches and can reach back to throw 95 mph when he needs to.

He’s not flawless, of course. He has a bit of an unusual delivery in that he sort of short-arms the ball a bit, doesn’t reach back and stride out like little Lincecum, for example. Doesn’t get the full leverage and torque or whatever that he might from that body, but that arm is just so quick.

He stands up tall and doesn’t have a max-effort sort of delivery, no grunting sounds or falling off the mound after he delivers a fastball. And the ball is on top of the hitter when he releases it, with those long arms and that height.

He looks in, sizes up his target and fires, without a bunch of shaking off the catcher or pausing for several seconds. He’s ready to roll when he gets out there. All business.

I like him. Like him a lot. He’s gonna be something special, I really believe that.

By Barrett

November 12, 2008 8:25 PM | Link to this

What about these Atlanta teams (other than the Braves) this year. The Falcons are 6-3 and are looking better and better every week. The Hawks are 6-0 and are currently beating the Celtics by 14 at Boston.

If the Braves get it turned around this up coming year I may actually admit to being an Atlanta sports fan….

By StingerSplash

November 12, 2008 8:29 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Didn’t you use “Outfit” earlier this year as the song of the blog? Ain’t complainin’, not in the least, just sayin’, yo.

Just as the internet radio station I’m listening to plays the godawful and dreadful Serj Tankian. How did this hack get a recording contract?

By Apollo

November 12, 2008 8:38 PM | Link to this

DOB, Is this your dream job? Because it is mine and I wondered how those who actually have it feel about it.

By TennesseePaul

November 12, 2008 8:49 PM | Link to this

at Myrtle Beach (one of the worst hitters parks in the minors, might I add) .288/.427/.494.

I like this guy Flowers. And he has dominated the ball. I haven’t seen him play so I can’t speak for his glove, but his bat is good. Very good.

I expected to look up this guys’ Myrtle Beach Splits and find the typical Rockie-esque style split. Great overall numbers, but abismal in the Beach and dynamite on the road.

Flowers hit .269/.406/.481 in the Petco of the Minors. That’s a strong OPS of 887 in a pitchers park! He hit .311/.449/.510 on the road. Of course, he had a batting average of balls in play of park-adjusted .342 for the season. That isn’t going to continue in the majors. But he is hitting it hard.

He is certainly better than the kid the Padres have behind the plate. I find it amazing that Towers has just now thought about asking for him.
My last thread of hope… hope which is more focused on the good health of two of my favorite bloggers here, Scoots and Braveheart… is that all this haggling by Towers is actually because he is trying desperately to get the deal which is being reported in the papers, blogs, and endless news cycle. That, in fact, the deal is still better than the Cubs, but doesn’t include certain players rumored to be involved which could crush the optimism of these bloggers if said player were dealt.
Basically, the hope centers on Wren pulling a JS in that Peavy walks into Atlanta and something no one thought off walks into San Diego but key players remain in place (from a Braves point of view).

Now back to reality. I would change the deal if Flowers is requested. And that would at least mean JoJo and no Morton along with no Schafer and no Gorkys. I’d like to see JoJo traded. If he never makes another start for the Braves I’ll be happy.

Where’s my beer.

By Bravesfan79

November 12, 2008 8:53 PM | Link to this

DONT Trade Flowers!
In fact Peavy kinda scares me, because his road ERA away from Petco isnt all that great.

I say we keep Escobar, and sign Renteria as his and Chippers backup.
Put Flowers on the roster coming out of spring training, and have him and Mccan rotate between playing catcher and 1st base.
And in my dreams…. trade some prospects for Roy Halladay of the Jays. And have Hanson as our 3rd starter behind Halladay and JJ.
Wow what a wicked team that would be!

By TennesseePaul

November 12, 2008 8:55 PM | Link to this

Chuck just hit a wall physically and mentally that he may never overcome but until he got hurt he was better than alot of folks like to remember

Here! Here!

I remember. I think if I dig around in the files I’ll find all the splits I ran on that guy all those many months he was tossed under the bus due to an injury. The kid was solid. Not a Hamels (or should that be an Hamels) but solid. If he were healthy and still going, I’d be more than happy to have that guy pull in the back of a rotation including Peavy, Hudson, Jurrjens, and Hanson. There’d be a strong chance to win every night. You can’t ask for more than that.

By brian

November 12, 2008 9:00 PM | Link to this

DOB - please finish the above post after the ……..

By Wayne

November 12, 2008 9:00 PM | Link to this

On for only a few minutes. Only had time to go down and pick up Dave’s comments.

Sounds like Hanson and Schafer should start the season in ATL, unless something unforseen happens. We could start Hanson as the #5 man, and let him develop at the top.

As for Flowers, if we have to include him to get Peavy, tell Towers to go pound sand.

As for what to do with Flowers, I say the Braves should strongly look into have a two-headed catcher. I know a lot of folks are not fond of divying up the time like that, but it could work.

If Flowers is a better first baseman, then let McCann do 75% of the catching, and Flowers 25%. Then put Flowers at first for the other games. This would mean trying to get McCann some work in over at first.

There are a lot of reasons why this might not work, but one huge reason why it is worth trying; 10 HR’s in 62 AB’s!!!

I gotta run, I will check back in a few hours to take my punishment for this wild idea.

By McFann O –[!!]

November 12, 2008 9:04 PM | Link to this

Bravesfan79 And in my dreams…

That thing you wrote before getting Halladay is in your dreams, too, dude.

By Nocturnal Owl

November 12, 2008 9:05 PM | Link to this

DOB very exciting stuff on Hanson. MLB will get to see Hanson sometime in ‘09. Wagering on Opening day? So early DOB, have no idea who we are signing. Plus throw in Glavine’s uncertainty. I can see him showing up in June..

By Wayne

November 12, 2008 9:07 PM | Link to this

10-Paul: Agree w/ you on Chuckie. He really was OK before he started experiencing the shoulder issues in mid to late 2007. (I think it was August roughly)

It wouldn’t totally break my heart if Towers went with the Cubs offer, or if Frank just told him to sh!t or get off the pot (N8, you stole that one from me??)

Later…

By Bravesfan79

November 12, 2008 9:19 PM | Link to this

I happen to think that thinking outside the box for once in Bobbys career would be a good thing for the Braves.

Why COULDNT we platoon Mccan and Flowers? And have a really good backup in Renteria for around 4-6 million? (he might take less to come here… he did just get a 3 mill buyout).
And our pinch hitting #’s would NO DOUBT go up…. which would give us a better record in 1-run games.

By skull

November 12, 2008 9:20 PM | Link to this

I mentioned about Frank Howard on the previous blog last night. Dude was 6’8”, 275 lbs & he played RF (not LF) for many years before switching to left. He ended up with 382 hrs. He wasn’t a butcher out there.

Flowers appears to have the potential to be a 30+ hrs players. You FIND a place in your lineup for those types of guys, especially the current power starved Braves! Sounds as if he has enough athletic ability to make it work. Can be a back up catcher when necessary, Mac day off/injury. A bit more work @ AA & then onto the Ted.

By James Munson

November 12, 2008 9:21 PM | Link to this

DOB. Any chance of the Braves getting in on Garrett Atkins for Left field? Also, with the Padres wanting Flowers now, how about we take Escobar out, insert Kelly in his place if we are giving up Flowers?

By dan

November 12, 2008 9:22 PM | Link to this

The mets can make a play for Manny, but if he did not like the spotlight of playing in Boston, does he really think that New York City is going to be any better?

I think he stays on the left coast where he can “play baseball and go home.”

By McFann O –[!!]

November 12, 2008 9:25 PM | Link to this

Bravesfan79—

You’re spelling McCann wrong. It’s driving me crazy…

By Joe M.

November 12, 2008 9:33 PM | Link to this

Why COULDNT we platoon Mccan and Flowers?

Because McCann is proven to be a great player in a full season and no one really knows what Flowers could do in the majors to start 2009. Why would you platoon arguably the best offensive catcher in the majors? Why would you have a prospect of Flower’s caliber rotting away on the bench and not getting any at-bats in a backup catcher role?

Platooning McCann and Flowers is stupid. Especially since McCann can hit left handers just fine: to the tune of a .299 batting average, .375 OBP and a .445 slugging percentage in 2008.

By skull

November 12, 2008 9:33 PM | Link to this

Concerning Edgar, I liked him alot when he was in Atl. But I found that scout’s words that DOB referred to a little unsettling—either injured or out of shape. Hope the Braves take a thorough look see before possibly resigning him (if he’s even being considered). Forget past love affairs with these players, they have to be able to perform up to expectations or be passed over(NO to an AJ return——that ship has sailed).

By Apollo

November 12, 2008 9:34 PM | Link to this

C’mon, platoon Mccann? That’s absurdity in it’s plainest form. Mccann will never be part of a platoon, and as of now they aren’t even thinking about moving him to first base. Mccann isn’t doing anything different now because of Tyler Flower’s performance the fall. Why do you think he’s been focusing on fitness this winter? It’s so he can stay behind the plate. We would keep Flowers in case of an injury to Mccann, or maybe even to Kotchman. On that topic, DOB, What about Barbaro Canizares? The Cuban 1B has had good numbers everywhere, why don’t we hear anything about him? He’s got a shot to make the club as a bench guy out of Spring training wouldn’t you say?

By TennesseePaul

November 12, 2008 9:37 PM | Link to this

Ouch, Mr. Towers. That can’t help your negotiations with Atlanta too much

Ha! That made my day, er, night. Maybe there is more to it than Lou knows, but with the details of the Braves deal being quite well reported and the Cubs deal still sliding around, I gotta think Lou isn’t too far off.

By Bubdylan

November 12, 2008 9:38 PM | Link to this

lol, when I saw Mccan, I knew you’d be along soon, McF.

By J.L.

November 12, 2008 9:39 PM | Link to this

The Braves should go after C.C.,give Hanson a shoot at the Big club,continue with Morton in the starting rotation.Sign Griffey and let him and Diaz platton left, and let K.J. and Francine Platton right. The rotaton could be J.J. Hanson, Morton,Hampton? C.C. ? Camp, Glavine? A.J.? Anderson can handle C.F. I’d bring Flowers up as back up Catcher and 1st and pinch hit. Since you have’nt traded away the good players for Peavy , you still have the option to trade some of these players for a big bat. However I truly belive we have the big bat in Flowers.

By Nocturnal Owl

November 12, 2008 9:40 PM | Link to this

I say platoon Chipper Jones. He needs some time on the bench. McCann and Chipper would fix our bench problems. For sure.

By Apollo

November 12, 2008 9:40 PM | Link to this

And besides, are we forgetting that McCann is Three Time freaking all star all ready??? I mean give me a break. Platooning him is not a good idea whatsoever.

By Ron Roberts

November 12, 2008 9:44 PM | Link to this

I, too, have grown weary with the Padres’ foot-dragging. I’m in agreement with those who hope that Frank Wren’s set or will be soon setting, a deadline to take the deal or leave it.

Truth is, we don’t know that this hasn’t already happened, anyhow.

Honestly, adding a Burnett or Lowe to what’s already in place (or available in-house) isn’t such a horrible scenario, IMHO.

Give us Burnett-or-Lowe, to go with JJ, Jorge Campillo, Glavine-or-Hampton and Charlie Morton (with the potential for Hanson to step-up) and I’d still put our rotation’s depth against the reigning World Series champions. Sure, maybe they’d have the better ace (Hamels), but would their 2-3-4-5 matchup against what we have? I think answers would vary, to say the least.

Adding Burnett or Lowe to the rotation (without losing Escobar or our younger arms, Gorkys or Schafer) frees us up to focus solely on the LF hole, and gives us, I think, a fighting chance in 2009, but also sets us up to let our robust farm system take us to greater heights in 2010 and beyond.

Plus, while we’d lack a Jake Peavy, by 2010 we’d have our own - Tommy Hanson - to work his way up to being our ace, and heck, I liked what I saw from Charlite Morton last year. He didn’t look any worse than Glavine did in his early outings as a Brave. And, DOB correct me if I’m wrong, but don’t we have affordable control of Campillo for a few years, as well?

And let’s not forget Tagawa (sp?).

By McFann O –[!!]

November 12, 2008 9:49 PM | Link to this

Joe M. Platooning McCann and Flowers is stupid. Especially since McCann can hit left handers just fine: to the tune of a .299 batting average, .375 OBP and a .445 slugging percentage in 2008.

…Because McCann is proven to be a great player in a full season and no one really knows what Flowers could do in the majors to start 2009.

Amen! (Sorry Wayne. But I hafta disagree with you on that one.)

Apollo Why do you think he’s been focusing on fitness this winter? It’s so he can stay behind the plate.

Exact-a-mondo. And I like to see that…not like Andruw Jones who didn’t seem to care what kind of shape he was in.

As for the Q that’s been raised twice since Ms. Rogers’ article appeared—“What if McCann pulls a Francoeur and can’t hit nearly as well with his changed body?”—here’s the thing: You look at video of him from ‘05 and ‘06; he was lighter then, and he hit fine, am I right?

No need to be worrywarts on this one (heck, I’ll say this is partially for my own peace of mind. But really, I don’t see any reason why he wouldn’t hit as well with a lighter body.)

By McFann O –[!!]

November 12, 2008 9:52 PM | Link to this

Bubdylan—

Yeah, you could say that’s one of my pet peaves.

Apollo And besides, are we forgetting that McCann is Three Time freaking all star all ready??? I mean give me a break.

Seriously…

This time tomorrow he should also be a 2-time Silver Slugger.

By JoeBrave

November 12, 2008 10:00 PM | Link to this

For Goshsakes People, Puhhhleezze, Stop pining for Tom Glavine!!! I said last Year signing Him was a Mistake,and it turned outr to be an 8 million dollar dud!!!! Say No to Glavine, let the old geezer retire already, this aint 1995 anymore……

By AdirondackDave

November 12, 2008 10:00 PM | Link to this

TennPaul — “I gotta think Lou can’t be too far off”. What is the time of that entry so I can check it out. Thanks.

By McFann O –[zzz]

November 12, 2008 10:01 PM | Link to this

Oh well…I gotta go. I’ll get to any responses tomorrow.

Night, all.

By JoeBrave

November 12, 2008 10:03 PM | Link to this

Ya might as well sign Randy Johnson,John Smoltz, trade for Jamie Moyer,and maybe we can get Knucksie to come be the 5. Dang, This Team has ,Must get Younger in the Pitching Department!!!! I for one hate the losing!!! and lately that is all that happens!!! Forget all the Pretty scenarios of Yesteryore…That Party’s Over!!

And Who is the Bunghole that wants Ol big Ears Lillybritches, to be the Staring SS next Year???? Certainly You Jest!!

By AdirondackDave

November 12, 2008 10:13 PM | Link to this

Platooning Mac and Flowers is not the answer, I couldn’t agree more. However, sharing catching and first base duties is not platooning. It could get Mac 600 ABs per year and significantly extend both careers. It’s in both players’ interest as well as the club’s interest. Seems to me that if/when Flowers is ready for MLB, it makes all the sense in the world… Ok, tell me why this is a half-baked idea.

By JR Bob Dobbs

November 12, 2008 10:17 PM | Link to this

Thanks for reporting your assessment of the Q-Tip album DOB. I tend to agree…

As for the Braves, thanks for the Flowers piece. Escobar, Flowers, and Jo-Jo sounds like an acceptable haul from the Braves to acquire Peavy’s services through his current contract or longer. If (or for that matter, if not) it comes to pass, do you think the Brave have any interest in Oliver Perez? He seems a high-risk/high-reward FA pitcher that will go for less than the CC/Lowe/AJ/Sheets crew. And for that matter, do you know if the Braves have interest in Randy Wolf?

Moving on to another topic of great importance. I say that Wallace BBQ in Austell merits both the best BBQ AND onion rings in metro Atlanta, if not all of GA, but I admit that I am biased. With respect to the O-Rings, I spent six years a while back at the North Avenue Trade School sampling the Varsity’s O-Rings among other things (how come my fridge can’t dispense Frosted Oranges?), just for comparison sake you understand. Anyway, have you ever been to Wallace BBQ?

Enjoy Arizona…

By ChopChop

November 12, 2008 10:18 PM | Link to this

DOB, I’m betting that you’ll see Hanson, Peavy, Burnett, Jurgens and Campillo in the five man rotation next season. If Atlanta can get what they got out of Campillo this year, he’ll be dealt when Tim Hudson comes back.

By Lew

November 12, 2008 10:18 PM | Link to this

I hadn’t seen anyone post this, though I could have missed it. Mitch Mitchell, Jimi Hendrix’s drummer, was found dead in his Portland, Oregon hotel room. He was 61.

By cabravesfan

November 12, 2008 10:24 PM | Link to this

AdirondackDave

It is a bad idea 9wouldn’t call it half baked) because both Mac and Flowers have said they have no interest in playing 1st base…forcing a player to play a position they are either uncomfortable or unwilling to play does not help the team- all it does is leave the team with an unhappy, potentially disgruntled player that will demand to be traded or look elsewhere when their contract is up…and at this point I am not willing to risk losing Mac because the Braves make him move to a position he does not want to play…he is too valuable as a catcher- if this means losing Flowers, so be it- as good as the numbers are he has yet to swing at a single pitch above single A- and while he may be the next big thing at catcher the Braves already have a 3 time all-star at the position who is young and inexpensive and a guy you can build a franchise around for the next 10+ years…why would you want to mess with that?

By Nocturnal Owl

November 12, 2008 10:25 PM | Link to this

Stop pining for Tom Glavine!!! JoeBrave

My previous post might have confused… In no shape or form was I talking about bringing back Glavine. I agree the 8M was a mistake. I was talking about Hanson pitching in June.We are on the same page, blog on my friend.

By Lew

November 12, 2008 10:28 PM | Link to this

ChopChop=Don’t know about that. Campillo would be excellent for long relief if not starting.

By Nocturnal Owl

November 12, 2008 10:35 PM | Link to this

ChopChop

You cann never have enough good pitching. If Campillo has a good year with another low ERA I would keep him. Dude will be cheap for a while. Good pitching for cheap, nothing better..

Unsure how next year will show for former Mexican Maddux…

Speaking of Greg Maddux, We were so blessed to have him dominate for us for so many years. Thanks again..Hall Of Famer Greg Maddux.

By brent a.

November 12, 2008 10:35 PM | Link to this

Exciting Hawks-Celtics game tonight.

Marvin Williams hit a 3 to put the Hawks up 1 with 7.6 seconds left.

Then Paul Pierce hit the game-winner with 0.5 secs left.

103-102.

The Hawks played their third straight game w/out Josh Smith, Pachulia missed the entire second half with a shoulder injury, and Al Horford was in foul trouble throughout. A nice effort from the Hawks; but, they also need to carry this forward. They’ve played well early, and have beaten some good teams on the road (Orland, New Orleans); but, they can’t let up after a nice effort against the champs, especially with that effort still resulting in a loss.

By AdirondackDave

November 12, 2008 10:42 PM | Link to this

Cabravesfan — Those are all good points you make about the wisdom of Mac and Flowers sharing catching and first. However, here’s why I would want to mess with that… We don’t really yet know how good Flowers is going to be, he may be ordinary or he may be great or somewhere in between. Still, with the development he has shown in the last year, he seems to have all the potential in the world. Somebody is going to turn out to be another Howard, Puhols, etc. It just might be Flowers and that kind of potential you just don’t trade away. You try to find a way to play him and I can’t figure out any other way, can you? And I really do believe it would extend both careers. I’m not saying “force them” to do this. I am saying have a good long talk (when and if Flowers is ready) and try to convince them that it is in both their and the clubs interest to try it. Who knows, after a bit of thought, they may respond positively. What’s to lose in trying this approach?

By rainman34

November 12, 2008 10:46 PM | Link to this

i now have my pick for left field. j dye. 2 years 11.5 and 12 mill left on his deal perfect for what we need right hand hitter great fielder good dude this is what we need.

By rainman34

November 12, 2008 10:46 PM | Link to this

i now have my pick for left field. j dye. 2 years 11.5 and 12 mill left on his deal perfect for what we need right hand hitter great fielder good dude this is what we need.

By Bluestreak

November 12, 2008 10:47 PM | Link to this

Just read this on mlbtraderumors.com:

4:31pm: Yahoo’s Tim Brown has an update on the Jake Peavy trade talks, though it’s not very exciting. A Padres exec says the team has options, but nothing is close. The Padres have not yet asked Peavy to approve a trade.

Interesting note from Brown - the Yankees pushed hard, while the Red Sox and Mets “inserted themselves” into the mix.

Brown notes that Peavy would probably want the fifth year of his contract guaranteed upon a trade. At that point it’d be a five-year, $81MM deal. How much worse off would a team be signing a solid free agent starter at a lower price, while preserving the farm system?

The bolded text is what stuck out to me (even before I bolded it). To me, that was the writer of this blurb SCREAMING at FW: “Go sign a Lowe, Burnett or anyone this side of Sabathia plus a second or third starter and keep your in-house guys in house.” Then, we could trade one or two players for a power LF…and not even players at the level we are talking about with Pee-vee.

This is when FW needs to tell Katy Temple, er…Kevin Towers to keep Pee-vee or trade him to Chicago for their junk, or to the Yanks, Bean-eaters (oops, that was the Braves old name…buy you know who I am referring to) or anyone else that’s left and willing to wait a month for this guy to do something.

I wanted Peavy on our team as soon as it was whispered that he would be available. Now, I could care less. Keep Yuni, Flowers, Hanson and anybody else that Kevin has asked for. We’ve got money to spend, so why be held up by this goof (Towers, not Peavy.)

By JoeBrave

November 12, 2008 10:48 PM | Link to this

I have searched a lot of LF in the M.L. right now, Goodness where have all the Boys Gone, NoOne is that good anymore… Of all Outfielders,I checked on,and there have been a boat load, I like Texas OF Nelson Cruz the best..I know he only hit 7 hr, however that was in just over 130 plate appearances. a full season may project to about 21 hr,and 88 rbi, hits Righthanded,and is fairly cheap, young and controllable..Texas does need a pitcher, JoJo maybe!!!

By Saltywoody

November 12, 2008 10:50 PM | Link to this

So Flowers straight up for Peavy now, or what?

By nolie

November 12, 2008 10:51 PM | Link to this

It just might be Flowers and that kind of potential you just don’t trade away. You try to find a way to play him and I can’t figure out any other way, can youAD

sure, teach him left field. he is not slow and awkward.

By Jim

November 12, 2008 10:56 PM | Link to this

Platooning MAC and Flowers makes a lot of seense on day Flowers hits 3 HRs and drives in 7. You want to keep hitters like this, or get equal value for them. After today, Yunel and Flowers are too much to give up for any #1 pitcher with a good contract. Keeping Flowers, or getting equal value for him - say a 3rd baseman a couple of years away - Daniels from Phillies if that is his name (heard him on XM Baseball and he exclaiming how good Hanson is now) - makes more sense. With Freeman, MAC and Flowers, you have to believe that C and 1B will be well covered in ‘10 and ‘11, etc. Turning one of the two minor leaguers into a definite (as definite as they are) major league 3B would be a nice touch. And, where does Matt Young fit into the CF sweepstakes. He’s having a great AFL after a solid year in AA. Hurt last year, and a little older - 26 - but he might be as ready now as Schafer and Gorkys. Obviously, you can offer one of these three in a deal because you have some backup at this position. But with C, we have no real #2, or, better, no one to step in if MAC is hurt. Regarding pitching, we should assume now that Hanson will be part of starting rotation in ‘09. Get Peavy, yes, but not by including both Yunel and Flowers. I would trade Flowers and pitching prospect for STL’s Ludwick. On that note, trading KJ is less of a blow to team than trading YE - we do have Prado.

By Bravestillidie

November 12, 2008 10:56 PM | Link to this

Man, the more I think about the Peavy trade the angrier I get. And, if the rumor about them now requesting Flowers in the deal is true then screw it. I say we start talking to some other teams with some pitching abundance about a trade….such as the Rays.

I understand that Towers wants to get a great deal for Peavy, but the fact that he keeps changing the terms…(once again, assuming the rumors are somewhat accurate) even as close as we are to unrestricted free agency, he is a fool. I can only imagine how irritated FW is considering that it would appear the Braves are getting impatient, and that was even with the rumored package of Escobar, Hernandez and Morton/Reyes (with the possible fourth piece) being static for about a week and not getting a serious bite. Towers is about to price himself out of the market and wind up burning some bridges if he isn’t careful.

I think if Towers doesnt get his head on straight and stop trying to harball for something he isn’t going to get, or leveraging other teams (Cubs) to get more than whats offered, from a team that still seems a long shot to make this trade (Cubs), then he is gonna end up with a hand full of nothing.

Think about it if you are Towers and Peavy doesn’t get dealt because of all of this. I know Peavy is a class guy who goes out and does his job, but how would you feel after seeign the way the Padres treated Hoffman, and as actively as they shopped Peavy this offseason. If they don’t deal him and he ends up itching for the Pads next year, even for half the season, it is gonna be ugly and Towers face will eternally have the proverbial egg upon it. I think it could very well ruin his career as a GM if he isn’t very careful here. I know there are always options in baseball, but her would do well to remember that the Braves have many, many, many more options than he does right now, and it is very hard to call the shots when the other party has all the cards.

By cabravesfan

November 12, 2008 10:56 PM | Link to this

AdirondackDave

While I don’t necessarily disagree with your theory I just feel a guy like Jake Peavy is worth the risk that Flowers is going to be that good…nobody really knows what will happen if and when he makes it to the majors (Mac was actually praised for his defensive abilities in the minors while his hitting was average at best…) If we can get Peavy without trading Flowers, great- I’d love to keep him, but if that is what it takes I would do it tomorrow

By matt

November 12, 2008 10:58 PM | Link to this

I can’t believe y’all are talking about platooning McCann! I mean, come on. Flowers has one good fall league and you’re ready to put McCann, an all-star in each of his first three years, on the bench. Man, you guys can come up with some crazy, out of left field stuff!

I’m excited about Flowers, too and I hope Braves don’t trade him, but, jeez.

By Bubdylan

November 12, 2008 11:00 PM | Link to this

“So Flowers straight up for Peavy now, or what?” -Saltywoody

Don’t be ridiculous. Maybe if the Pads add a prospect or two. Who they got?

By AdirondackDave

November 12, 2008 11:03 PM | Link to this

Nolie — I could buy into trying Flowers in LF. He seems to have decent foot speed. In fact, if he’s ok with that, ST might be used to get him some time out there. If it doesn’t work out, it doesn’t.

By BravesFanInRockies

November 12, 2008 11:03 PM | Link to this

So we’ve demoted Heap to a part-time player?

Jeez, get a grip, people.

By Thrillhouse44

November 12, 2008 11:05 PM | Link to this

First Morton, now Flowers and Hanson…DOB, before long agents are going to start paying you to come to AFL games.

By Salty Dawg

November 12, 2008 11:09 PM | Link to this

I know he doesn’t want to do it and it ain’t likely to happen, but damn, could you imagine if Flowers could make the transition to LF? That kid can put some serious wood on the ball.

By BravesFanInRockies

November 12, 2008 11:09 PM | Link to this

IF Flowers set Dark Star on fire this spring and if the Braves were in the American League and if the Braves were convinced Flowers were accomplished enough behind the plate, then you might keep him on the major league roster to back up McCann (and perhaps) Kotchman) and DH.

Otherwise it makes no sense to effectively bench him for 100-120 games. D-U-M dumb.

By Bubdylan

November 12, 2008 11:11 PM | Link to this

Folks that think Towers is being ridiculous; is he? Let’s say Wren has set him a deadline of Thursday or Friday or some such, before he will head a different direction.

Don’t we expect Towers to do as much shucking and jiving between now and the 11th hour as he can? If we don’t actually bid against ourselves (and surely we’re not), then can’t we just chalk these squirms of his up as… the last flailings of a choke victim? (Sorry, KT; it ain’t your fault).

I mean, won’t the REAL time that we can say Towers is being foolish come when Wren’s assumed deadline rolls around and Towers STILL plays games? I’m willing to believe that when the hammer actually falls on Wren’s time-table, Towers will take our best offer. Until I see something else happen.

By reid

November 12, 2008 11:11 PM | Link to this

Scott Miller cbssportsline.com says deal is close … no Flowers but Blaine Boyer. where do we sign?

By Curt

November 12, 2008 11:11 PM | Link to this

DOB

What do you think is the best seriously reported package offered by the Braves that would cost them the least and which one do you think would cost them the most?

What package have you heard talked about by someone with some knowledge that would be too much, in your opinion, for the Braves to give up for Peavy?

By Salt Lake Brave

November 12, 2008 11:12 PM | Link to this

According to CBS Sports there is some movement in the Peavy trade with the Braves. Here is the artilce by Scott Miller: *The Atlanta Braves, full-steam ahead in their pursuit of right-hander Jake Peavy, are offering a four-player package of players, and San Diego is expected to request that Peavy waive his no-trade clause so the deal can be completed, CBSSports.com has learned.

Barry Axelrod, Peavy’s agent, said Wednesday evening that he had not spoken with Padres general manager Kevin Towers. And if that conversation takes place on Thursday, it still may be a bit before the Padres and Braves receive an answer — Peavy is scheduled to fly home from a trip to Puerto Rico and will be traveling much of the day.

Under terms of the deal discussed by the Braves and Padres, San Diego would receive shortstop Yunel Escobar, Class A outfielder Gorkys Hernandez, one of two starting pitchers — Charlie Morton or Jo-Jo Reyes — and either reliever Blaine Boyer or one of two minor-league left-handers (one of which is believed to be Jeff Locke).

In addition to Escobar and Hernandez, it is believed that the Padres, if the deal is completed, will opt for Morton, a 25-year-old right-hander who was 4-8 with a 6.15 ERA in 16 appearances — 15 starts — in 2008. They also are said to be leaning toward Boyer, a 27-year-old right-hander who was one of manager Bobby Cox’s chief workhorses last season, finishing tied for ninth in the NL with 76 appearances.

Though Padres scouts like Locke, he’s only 21 and not yet ready for the majors. The Padres’ bullpen was deeply disappointing last season and, now, with iconic closer Trevor Hoffman apparently having pitched his last game for the Padres, is close to being in complete disarray.

The Braves have been pressuring the Padres for an answer by Friday, when the free agent market opens, because they need at least two starters — and they want to know whether Peavy will be a Brave before they dive in. They are expected to pursue A.J. Burnett, Ryan Dempster and others — and sign maybe one if they acquire Peavy, and two if they don’t.

However, now the spotlight is close to swinging to Peavy, whose preference is said to be in Chicago with the Cubs. However, internally, the Padres view the Cubs’ offer — believed to include outfielder Felix Pie, infielder Ronny Cedeno and left-hander Sean Marshall, as being nowhere close to that of the Braves.

Whether Peavy agrees to accept a deal to Atlanta could become contingent on any number of things, including Atlanta guaranteeing Peavy’s $22 million option for 2013, a full-no trade clause or travel considerations for Peavy’s wife and children (the Peavys intend to keep their full-time home in San Diego, according to Axelrod).

Peavy, 27, won the NL Cy Young award following the 2007 season in a unanimous vote. Though a strained elbow shelved him for part of 2008, he still compiled a 2.85 ERA in 27 starts, finishing 10-11 for a Padres club that lost 99 games.

Considered one of the game’s few true aces when he’s healthy, Peavy has compiled ERAs of 2.88 or lower in four of the past five seasons.

In Atlanta, he would help accomplish Braves GM Frank Wren’s goal of getting back to what the club was known for in the 1990s, a strong starting rotation.

Morton was part of that rotation for part of ‘08, and the Braves had envisioned him remaining there. Atlanta’s third-round pick in the 2002 draft, Morton is a “stuff” guy — his fastball reaches into the upper-90s — but he also throws a big curve and, over the past two years, has made significant strides in his command.

Atlanta’s willingness to include Escobar in the package has been a surprise to some, because the Braves traded a solid shortstop prospect, Elvis Andrus, in the package to Texas for Mark Teixeira in 2007. At that time, Escobar was viewed as Atlanta’s shortstop of the future.

Though Escobar hit .288 with a .366 on-base percentage, 10 homers and 60 RBI, he committed 16 errors for the Braves in what many considered a disappointing ‘08 season. Cox is said to have become disenchanted with him, which no doubt played a part in the fact that the Braves would part with Escobar.*

By Joe M.

November 12, 2008 11:12 PM | Link to this

To me, that was the writer of this blurb SCREAMING at FW: “Go sign a Lowe, Burnett or anyone this side of Sabathia plus a second or third starter and keep your in-house guys in house.” Then, we could trade one or two players for a power LF…and not even players at the level we are talking about with Pee-vee.

The writer of that blurb (Tim Dierkes) is a big Cubs’ fan who’d no-doubt love for the Braves to stupidly pull out of the Peavy deal just because it is not done as quickly as some whiners on the blog would like.

I guarantee you if the Padres traded Peavy to the Cubs for their junk, the only ones who’d be regretting it would be the Atlanta Braves and their fans.

Hopefully Peavy will be a Brave before Friday so the Braves can freely and fully focus on free agents.

By AdirondackDave

November 12, 2008 11:12 PM | Link to this

Cabravesfan —- Yup, if i were really pushed, I would probably hold my nose and include Flowers in a trade for Peavy… the thought of Escobar and Flowers both going really bothers me though. Hopefully we can still get Peavy without losing Flowers. My thought is to continue developing him in ST and AAA for a few months and then either bring him up or trade him for a quality outfielder or pitcher.

By Flustered Fan

November 12, 2008 11:17 PM | Link to this

Can we trade Bobby Cox to Philadelphia for Francona?

By Bravestillidie

November 12, 2008 11:18 PM | Link to this

Bubdylan….11 o’clocker was hilarious…actually laughed out loud. Good stuff.

BTID

By Nocturnal Owl

November 12, 2008 11:21 PM | Link to this

Part of package::Boyer and the Goo getting traded for Peavy.?.

Here we much need midnight action added to the blog..

By Saff

November 12, 2008 11:22 PM | Link to this

Matt you are 100 % correct McCann in a platoon wow what a joke. Jim i mean come on Flowers is unproven and Mac is already one of the BEST catchers in baseball if not the BEST. Flowers might be good he might not but i will tell you this he will not replace McCann the whole Salty deal should have opened your eyes people. Bottom line McCann is the catcher hands down and will never move positions unless HE chooses to do so. P.S. that is very very veryyyyyyy unlikely!!!!!!

By MGL

November 12, 2008 11:24 PM | Link to this

Idon’t think it is necessary or in good taste for Wren to issue utimatums or to tell Towers to go F.O. as some have suggested.

It is appropriate to tell him that after Thursday midnight that there is no guarantee that the Braves will be able to continue to offer what is currently on the table. As the FA market and other opportunities are evaluated and commitments made, the players currently on the table may be unavailable due to other decisions.

In other words, leave the door open, but it may have to be a different deal, or we may end up not needing Peavy after all.

By Nocturnal Owl

November 12, 2008 11:26 PM | Link to this

Yunel

Gorkys

Morton or JoJo..Leaning towards Morton

Boyer or Locke. Leaning towards Boyer

I’d say announcement tomorrow. Any way we can push for JoJo?

By BravesFanInRockies

November 12, 2008 11:28 PM | Link to this

Salt Lake Brave,

Appreciate the heads-up. If Miller’s right …

Keeping Locke and losing Boyer will help ease the pain of trading Yunel … El Blaino was likely to be the odd man out if Moylan and Soriano returned to full-time duty anyway.

By Wide Right

November 12, 2008 11:29 PM | Link to this

I wonder if the emergence of Flowers could get the Padres to take Lillibridge in lieu of Escobar. Lillibridge, Flowers, Gorkys and Morton/JoJo for Peavy…seems fair.

By Ric Flair

November 12, 2008 11:30 PM | Link to this

“The Atlanta Braves, full-steam ahead in their pursuit of right-hander Jake Peavy, are offering a four-player package of players, and San Diego is expected to request that Peavy waive his no-trade clause so the deal can be completed, CBSSports.com has learned.”

http://www.sportsline.com/mcc/blogs/entry/6270335/11665079

By Bubdylan

November 12, 2008 11:30 PM | Link to this

Bravestillidie Thanks!!

By Deep Throat

November 12, 2008 11:31 PM | Link to this

The Atlanta Braves, full-steam ahead in their pursuit of right-hander Jake Peavy, are offering a four-player package of players, and San Diego is expected to request that Peavy waive his no-trade clause so the deal can be completed, CBSSports.com has learned.

Under terms of the deal discussed by the Braves and Padres, San Diego would receive shortstop Yunel Escobar, Class A outfielder Gorkys Hernandez, one of two starting pitchers — Charlie Morton or Jo-Jo Reyes — and either reliever Blaine Boyer or one of two minor-league left-handers (one of which is believed to be Jeff Locke).

The Goo!!!!!!!!!!!!1

By cabravesfan

November 12, 2008 11:31 PM | Link to this

AdirondackDave

Agree (although it doesn’t bother me as much-even though I hate the thought of losing Yunel)- but getting a legit No. 1 for half of what a free agent would cost is worth it to me…

By Bryan

November 12, 2008 11:32 PM | Link to this

Anyone have an opinion on the new Hank III cd?

Not as good - production wise - as straight to hell (the best country cd in 10 years if you ask me) but it is a DAMN good cd. wild eyed “burn down a barn on the way to spring training” type of a CD.

By Poberto Retagine

November 12, 2008 11:32 PM | Link to this

Any credence to it, Dave? Escobar/Hernandez/Morton/Boyer…hate to see them go but I can certainly live with this deal. Big start to the offseason for Wren if it’s true.

By Kentavo

November 12, 2008 11:32 PM | Link to this

I got to see Hanson and Flowers here in Myrtle Beach last season. Hanson wasn’t here very long, but I saw him dominate in an April game, when the weather was cold ‘n’ nasty. But, as DOB described, he was a man among boys.

And Flowers, saw him poke a couple of dingers - and the park here faces the ocean, so the wind usually blows in.

Flowers has that Piazza-like pop of the bat where it just sounds different from the others.

By clay

November 12, 2008 11:34 PM | Link to this

Welcome aboard Mr. Peavy. Now lets sign Lowe and Ibanez and whoever for SS.

By Nocturnal Owl

November 12, 2008 11:35 PM | Link to this

sorry sound a bit drunk that last post… Peavy deal tomorrow? Just before FA opening? Yes! I feel it coming to a peaceful closure! Bu Bye Boyer…

By AdirondackDave

November 12, 2008 11:38 PM | Link to this

If that CBS report is right, seems like we really are about to conclude the Peavy deal. With that pleasant thought, Adirondack geezer is signing off ‘til tomorrow.

By Steve from OH

November 12, 2008 11:40 PM | Link to this

Please don’t put Jeff Locke in that deal. I’d rather see JoJo go but we might have to put in Morton to get it done. But don’t use Locke as a throw-in. His ceiling is way too high for that. If the other lefty is someone like Osuna or Venters, go for it. Not Locke. And no Rohrbough, for that matter.

By BravesFanInRockies

November 12, 2008 11:41 PM | Link to this

If the CBS deal is for real, I’m not at all bothered that we’re keeping JoJo instead of Morton. If JoJo settles down and gains some consistency he’ll be a fine LH starter. And unless we re-sign Hampton or pick up a lefty FA, the Braves won’t have any lefties in the 2009 rotation.

By TN-MAN

November 12, 2008 11:43 PM | Link to this

DOB any truth to the CBSsportsline article?

By Serge

November 12, 2008 11:49 PM | Link to this

Though Escobar hit .288 with a .366 on-base percentage, 10 homers and 60 RBI, he committed 16 errors for the Braves in what many considered a disappointing ‘08 season. Cox is said to have become disenchanted with him, which no doubt played a part in the fact that the Braves would part with Escobar.

This Speaks Volumes. I know the Escofans of the blog will not like to hear it. But his Cuban moxie is probably the biggest reason why he will be in Sandiego in 09

By Kris in NC

November 12, 2008 11:51 PM | Link to this

If this is to be true, then Wren can get busy going after another starter and the LF’er we need. Now we will need a SS to replace Yunel since it looks as if he is going to San Diego.

I am wondering if Wren is going to speak with the Brewers since they might look to deal JJ Hardy, who has power and is good defensively.

This is going to be interesting to watch.

By Saltywoody

November 12, 2008 11:52 PM | Link to this

Don’t be ridiculous. Maybe if the Pads add a prospect or two.

Excellent point. In all the excitement of the Braves maybe going goo-less, I lost my head.

By Peaviiiii

November 12, 2008 11:57 PM | Link to this

*According to Scott Miller of CBSSports.com, the Padres are expected to request Jake Peavy waive his no-trade clause to go to the Braves. The deal being discussed: Yunel Escobar, Gorkys Hernandez, Charlie Morton or Jo-Jo Reyes, and Blaine Boyer or one of two minor league southpaws. Miller says the Padres are leaning toward Morton and Boyer.

The Braves want an answer by Friday, so they can figure out their free agent needs. Peavy is said to prefer the Cubs, but we’ll see what happens if the Padres approach him to waive the no-trade for Atlanta. It hasn’t happened yet* MLBtraderumors

By Saltywoody

November 13, 2008 12:03 AM | Link to this

For all of you that are a little worried about trading Yunel, maybe this will make you feel better.

http://completist.wordpress.com/2008/04/17/yunel-escobar-stalks-chubby-white-girls/

What a creepy picture.

By stynes

November 13, 2008 12:05 AM | Link to this

DOB - would the Braves consider doing the Peavy deal with Flowers as the centerpiece rather than Escobar? Rather than Escobar, Hernandez/Shafer, and Reyes/Morton… make it Flowers, Hernandez/Shafer, and Reyes/Morton. Do the Padres have any interest in that?

By Saltywoody

November 13, 2008 12:06 AM | Link to this

And for those of you wondering who likes whom more, you might want to consult this picture. Clearly, Mac is a little more enamored of Frenchy than Frenchy is of him.

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff172/RIBscans/geezfrenchy1.jpg

By Saltywoody

November 13, 2008 12:07 AM | Link to this

And we need to discuss Kelly Johnson’s fiancee a little more on this blog. Her name is Lauren Thacker and this is why we need to talk about her more:

http://www.velcroblog.com/images/braves07/scootergf.jpg

By Saltywoody

November 13, 2008 12:08 AM | Link to this

And now I’m starting to get a little worried about Mac.

http://bp3.blogger.com/joI3gyA9y6k/RwRd9qXrNuI/AAAAAAAAAKs/VcxVLNIFm8/s1600-h/BabyChipperGL2.jpg

By AuburnBrave

November 13, 2008 12:09 AM | Link to this

If it’s true that the deal is finally done then I am excited.

I’m sorry to see Yunel go, I am in the bunch that thinks he’s going to be a special player one day soon, but Peavy is a huge catch and we had to give up something pretty big to land him. Pitching and defense are what wins championships. During most of the 90’s stretch we never had a big bat at SS, and there are some out there right now that we could get to replace Escobar, so I’m not at all worried about a drop off as a result of his leaving.

By Saltywoody

November 13, 2008 12:09 AM | Link to this

Eh…maybe Frenchy does love Mac after all…

http://www.velcroblog.com/images/braves07/dugouthair.jpg

By brian

November 13, 2008 12:10 AM | Link to this

good thing Frank Wren does not think with us and just threw Flowers in the trade like most of us have advocated over the past month. Flowers performance in the fall league has elevated him to a serious prospect who may force his way to Atlanta by 2010. If he keeps developing as a hitter the Braves will make room for him and McCann. I hope the Braves do have a difficult decision on how to fit so many good bats into the lineup. What a nice change that would be

By Saltywoody

November 13, 2008 12:13 AM | Link to this

Last one. I promise.

We are getting this: http://asapblogs.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/07/09/peavyright_3.jpg

For this: http://www.thetandd.com/content/articles/2008/06/25/sports/doc4861b66583c3e549122112.jpg

I’m all in. Let’s do this.

By brent a.

November 13, 2008 12:22 AM | Link to this

Okay, so which one of you had Blaine Boyer in the “trade clincher” pool?

By Nocturnal Owl

November 13, 2008 12:25 AM | Link to this

brian

The Braves will be competitive next year but 2010-2011 is looking sick…

I cannot sleep now Thanks CBS dude.

Saltywoody is experimenting pre-Peavy excitement. Nice pictures of Frenchy and Mac. The “worried about Mac” didn’t come up for me.

By Steve from OH

November 13, 2008 12:30 AM | Link to this

stynes, I’m sure the Braves would love to make Flowers the centerpiece, but the only problem is that the Padres would laugh FW off the phone. Folks, Flowers is a special prospect, but he’s not that special, lol. I really like the kid, but let’s be realistic…

By Bama

November 13, 2008 12:31 AM | Link to this

Sounds like Peavey may not want to become a Brave. He will make his demands after they ask him to approve the deal. Hope he don’t ask for to much?

By Saltywoody

November 13, 2008 12:34 AM | Link to this

The more I think about this, the better I am with it, assuming this trade goes through.

DOB made a good point a blog or two back when he said that Yunel, while perhaps destined for stardom, does not provide irreplaceable offense. And I actually think I (and maybe a few others) overvalue the things he does on offense because of how good we think he could be.

But, realistically, Escobar would probably peak around .330 18-25 75-90 with a solid obp, right? If we get a solid defensive shortstop to fill in (Orlando Cabrera if the price is right, Jack Wilson if we don’t have to give up too much, etc.) and we get a a good bat for left field, we don’t miss him much at all.

And, at the same time (and I know we’ve beat this to death) we get a bonafide ACE for outstanding value for the next four years. And we didn’t give up a single top tier prospect to get him.

Even if we don’t contend next year, we get SCARY after that assuming Hanson keeps it up and Huddy comes back healthy. And I genuinely think we could contend with Peavy heading the rotation, another solid number 2 behind him, and JJJ and Hanson to follow. I’m liking this…a lot.

By clay

November 13, 2008 12:35 AM | Link to this

DOB I know you have said Flowers wants to stay a catcher and the Braves want him to also. Any chance they would come to him and ask him to try outfield in ST and say if you impress us you could have a chance to come up during the season. That is if he continues to dominate in AA.

By Saltywoody

November 13, 2008 12:38 AM | Link to this

And Nocturnal Owl, I am absolutely experiencing pre-Peavy excitement. I can’t sleep now either.

Here’s the “worried about Mac” one again:

http://bp3.blogger.com/joI3gyA9y6k/RwRd9qXrNuI/AAAAAAAAAKs/VcxVLNIFm8/s1600-h/BabyChipperGL2.jpg

By Bubdylan

November 13, 2008 12:39 AM | Link to this

paging David O’brien. Blogger O’brien? Your party is waiting for you in the Pre-mature Freak-Out Zone

Anybody worried Jake will give it the Uh-Oh Action Kung Fu Veto Chop? That would be deflating to say the least.

By Saltywoody

November 13, 2008 12:49 AM | Link to this

I think all the “Peavy prefers the Cubs” stuff is based solely around the speculation that he’ll only go to a winner. Wow. Earth-shattering. What guy has come out and said “Meh, you know what? I’d rather go to a losing club. I don’t particularly care for winning.”

If Peavy looks at the situation objectively, as I’m sure he would or will, and sees the Braves not giving up top-tier talent to get him, with guys like Flowers and Hanson on the verge, and with well-advertised plans to go out and get another solid #2 pitcher behind him and still have money to spend on SS and LF, there’s no way he could think that’s an organization that’s not serious about winning.

Plus, add to that the fact that he’s closer to home in ATL, loves the South, is in far warmer weather than Chicago (presumably better for his health and stuff), grew up loving the Braves, gets to play for Bobby Cox, and stands to head up a rotation that projects to be just filthy in two years, and that’s all got to hold some sway too.

Also, can someone send him a copy of Chipper’s hunting video? I’ve gotta think that would get him in a Braves uni immediately.

By Nocturnal Owl

November 13, 2008 12:58 AM | Link to this

Who would wanna pitch in Windy Wrigley Field? The more pitcher friendly Turner will be best for you Peavy.

Imagine going from Petco to Wrigley..

Lol Bubdylan, Ya it would be deflating but again I don’t see that happening.

Saltywoody looks like we can party here all morning alone!!!

No DOB,Wayne,UGA and company…

By Doc Holliday

November 13, 2008 1:03 AM | Link to this

Saltywoody

Every organization tries to win……… I think Peavy is looking more at “recent history” which doesnt look good on the braves chapter.

By MiamiBrave

November 13, 2008 1:04 AM | Link to this

it would be one hell of a party if DOB could chime in and give us a thumb up on this cbs story

here’s hoping

By Bubdylan

November 13, 2008 1:09 AM | Link to this

Man… I have to take a music appreciation test in 7 hours. Not going to be good. If Jake Peavy is the answer to any question (he invented the Bel Canto, right?), I might score a Two.

By Nocturnal Owl

November 13, 2008 1:11 AM | Link to this

MiamiBrave Its ultimately Peavy who has to give the thumbs up. He has the final say and to this point he hasn’t gotten a request from the Padres. This is not done yet But you may party on!!!

By Coach ( Skip and Pete will be missed)

November 13, 2008 1:19 AM | Link to this

Yunel Escobar is a Prima Donna in the mold of some former players who irked Bobby Cox, sort of like David Justice, John Rocker and Kenny Lofton. Our young, incredibly talented SS is a showboat. I get that. I would venture to guess that most if not all of Escobar’s teammates didn’t approve of his on field behavior this past season.

If any GM’s are wondering what the motivation (besides Jake Peavy) is to trade Escobar, look no further than the manager. And if you are wondering why I REALLY DO believe that the Braves have no chance at competing in 2009. I’ll say it again for the umpteenth time, I have ZERO confidence in our manager.

I just hope it’s Jo-Jo Reyes and not Charlie Morton included in the package. Otherwise, this trade is really gonna sting.

By David O'Brien

November 13, 2008 1:22 AM | Link to this

Just swapped e-mails with someone in the know in Southern California after seeing that story. It’s the same offer the Braves have discussed for days on end with Padres, but I think the only difference is they agreed to add the fourth player, either Boyer (Braveheart, they must have read your note earlier) or one of the lefty prospects, Locke or Rohrbough.

I think we could find out by the weekend, but not gonna bet on it. I don’t think Braves will pull the offer if Towers decides to wait longer, though I do think Braves will be more inclined to use one or more of those pieces in another possible trade if they have one ln place or one comes up. Right now, they’re waiting for an answer from Towers, I think, and not willing to use those trade pieces anywhere else. But that won’t last much longer….

Meanwhile, I can tell you that the movie Rock N Rolla is very cool and definitely worth seeing, if you liked Guy Ritchie’s other two similar movies, Lock, Stock & Two Smoking Barrels and Snatch. This one is along the same lines, slick British gangsters, crazy violence and some laugh-out-loud moments. Also, great soundtrack featuring, among others, Lou Reed, Wanda Jackson, The Subways (a live performance of a killer tune in a club) and English Beat.

Had to burn some time after they booted me from the stadium, so I went to this outdoor-mall thing in Tempe and got dinner, then stopped by the multiplex.

Now, just another 1-1/2 hours to wait here at the nearly deserted airport for that familiar 12:55 a.m. to Atlanta, the flight we always take after a series against the D-Backs.

By Saltywoody

November 13, 2008 1:24 AM | Link to this

Nocturnal Owl…I’m fashioning the “Hudson” on the back of my Braves t-shirt into a “Peavy” as we type.

Doc…agreed that recent history doesn’t look great. But it also doesn’t look terrible. They haven’t been good, but they haven’t been horrendous…which is somewhat remarkable in and of itself, considering the crippling rash of injuries and underperformance. Hopefully something’s gotta give, right?

Bub…if you’re taking a music appreciation test, consider writing an essay on why “Leaving on a Jet Plane” should have its lyrics changed to “Peavy on a jet plane,” heading to Atlanta, and hope that your professor is a Braves Fan.

And then hope for an a for effort.

By Bad Fielding Sucks

November 13, 2008 1:25 AM | Link to this

perfect for what we need right hand hitter great fielder

what are you talking about?He is one of the worst fielding REers out there.about a -70 or so over the last three years. Yuckkk!

By Saltywoody

November 13, 2008 1:29 AM | Link to this

I just hope it’s Jo-Jo Reyes and not Charlie Morton included in the package. Otherwise, this trade is really gonna sting.

Coach…I hear what you’re saying. But, I’d also point out that for as good as Morton’s stuff is, it’s not reassuring that everyone consistently points out how he’s just not mature and confident enough in himself to succeed yet.

To me, he smacks of Kyle Davies…good stuff but lacks confidence. And we can see where that’s gotten Davies.

On paper, it looks like the Padres are getting a lot. But, again, we’re getting a no-doubt-about-it Ace signed to a contract for FOUR YEARS. That means we have Peavy for what should be his prime years. Plus, we’ve got a lot of money left over to fill in around him AND we’ve still got our best prospects.

I feel better and better about this.

By Bama

November 13, 2008 1:30 AM | Link to this

Saltywood, Peavey has home in San Diego and said his family was going to stay there year round. So much for Ala.etc.

By Jeff

November 13, 2008 1:34 AM | Link to this

Some Braves fans wanted Esco gone because they figured it were him or their boy KJ, while others very much overrate Lillibridge…

To sum it up, if true all those that underrate Esco (and Gorky for that matter) will be happy…

By Bubdylan

November 13, 2008 1:34 AM | Link to this

Or… that truly depressing tune by Led Zeppelin regarding Jake’s elbow issues, “When the Peavy Breaks.”

Or… the Dylan standard, “All Along I Watched Towers”

Yeah, bedtime.

By Coach ( Skip and Pete will be missed)

November 13, 2008 1:35 AM | Link to this

And if some hadn’t heard yet, the White Sox are putting Jermaine Dye on the trading block. The catch is, if the Braves win out on the Jake Peavy sweepstakes, they won’t have much left to barter with.

By Tomas

November 13, 2008 1:38 AM | Link to this

Man at last there is some progress on the Peavy deal.

After all this if he doesn’t waive his no trade clause, it’d be such a big dissapointment.

Blaine Boyer, Charlie Morton, Yunel Escobar, and Gorkys Hernandez for Jake Peavy.

Well I sure hope this report is right.

By Saltywoody

November 13, 2008 1:39 AM | Link to this

Or… the Dylan standard, “All Along I Watched Towers”

Maybe don’t hit the sack yet. You’ve been on fire all day long.

By David O'Brien

November 13, 2008 1:43 AM | Link to this

Bama, not what his agent told me. Said Peavy plans to stay at least part of the year in San Diego, but also part of year in ‘Bamy. Family’s spending a few weeks at Christmas in Semmes this year.

And by the way, how would he live “year-round” in San Diego if he’s pitching for a team outside of Southern California? At most, he could live there 4-1/2 months. But he built a house in Alabama, and his parents have one there, and he’s got his hunting/fishing lodge in N. Alabama near Camden.

I’d guess he’s going to spend plenty of time in Alabama, regardless of where he pitches. But if you had a house in San Diego, you’d spend plenty of time there, too. No matter where you’re from, it can’t be nicer than the kind of places you can live in San Diego if you’ve got a little scratch.

By nolie

November 13, 2008 1:44 AM | Link to this

I’m still wonderring what Peavy is gonna ask fot to approve the trade. Maybe I’m just an old cynic…in this case I hope so.

By Tomas

November 13, 2008 1:44 AM | Link to this

In next years draft, the priority is a SS, 3B, Relief pitcher, and Catcher. In that order.

Hopefully someone like the rays got this this year Tim Beckham a five tool SS similar to Hanley Ramirez.

By Mike S

November 13, 2008 1:45 AM | Link to this

Great to hear about Rock n Rolla, DOB. The wife and I have been meaning to see it since it came out, but just haven’t made it happen yet. Definitely a fan of Lock Stock and Snatch, the latter being one of my top 5 favorite movies of all time. Absolutely love Snatch. (settle down, boys)

But it’s good to hear that Guy Ritchie bounced back after several less than stellar movies since those great two. Maybe a split from Madonna was all it took?

By Coach ( Skip and Pete will be missed)

November 13, 2008 1:47 AM | Link to this

O no you don’t. Kyle Davies isn’t even in the same zip code when it comes to comparison’s with Charlie Morton. The latter pitcher’s stuff has been described by many as lights out, nasty, dominant and flat out wicked.

The flip side has been his lack of consistency. The mental aspect of pitching seems to be Morton’s problem. The Braves are giving up a potential front line starter in Charlie Morton and they know it.

By Cherokee

November 13, 2008 1:49 AM | Link to this

Anybody know of any UTube links to Hanson pitching? Thanx

By Tomas

November 13, 2008 1:54 AM | Link to this

Flowers 3 homers wow. This guy is just asking for a shot. Next year tripple A, without a doubt I hope.

By Jeff

November 13, 2008 1:56 AM | Link to this

It’s total nonsense to call Esco a “Prima Donna”. Esco is not even close to having such an attitude unlike Justice, etc.

By David O'Brien

November 13, 2008 1:57 AM | Link to this

Stynes, the Padres want Escobar for the big upgrade at shortstop, especially offensive. They want a proven player in the deal, and he’s a young, affordable, potential star. Flowers, while he has immense power and a great stroke and overall hitting approach, still hasn’t played above A-ball. Still got a lot to prove….

Bamabrave: Don’t be surprised if Peavy asks the Braves (or any team) to guarantee his $22 mill option and grant a no-trade clause for the length of the deal (his current contract calls for the no-trade to be reduced to a partial no-trade clause next season, then go away altogether; that was fine with Peavy as long as he was with San Diego, because he would soon after have 10/5 trade veto privileges. He won’t have that if he’s traded, obviously, so he’ll probably as for the no-trade clause.)

Braves have come this far, I don’t think the no-trade clause would be a deal breaker. But I can’t say that for sure. I just don’t think they’ll be so concerned about it, because Peavy’s probably like Chipper or any player with pride, and wouldn’t hold a team hostage and reject trades if that team came to him and said we don’t want you anymore, or we need to trade you for the good of the team, etc.

Also, think about it: There’s seemingly very little chance the Braves would trade Peavy during the contract, because if he’s healthy we pretty much know he’s going to pitch well (he’ll only be 31 in the fourth year, 32 in the option year). And if he’s injured, well, then you can’t trade him anyway? Know what I mean?

As for picking up the option, I don’t know if that’s a severe obstacle or not. Even at $81 mill for five years, he’d still be paid less than other pitchers of his age and stature are getting or are going to get on the free-agent market. So I don’t know, but I’m sure the Braves have already thought about this possibility.

Again, if they pick up the option and Peavy pitches as he has for the past six years, they’re probably not going to want to trade him. But if they do want to, they’d have teams lining up to trade for him in a few years if they made him available and he was healthy. And if he’s not healthy, well, they’d better have a darn good insurance policy that can be renewed for the length of the deal, especially if they pick up the option.

By Saltywoody

November 13, 2008 1:58 AM | Link to this

The Braves are giving up a potential front line starter in Charlie Morton and they know it.

I’m not sure about that, especially considering the choice is Reyes/Morton and not Hanson/Morton. Hanson’s projected at the top of a rotation. Morton’s projected at the middle, and that’s IF he matures and starts to believe in himself.

If you read above, you’ll see DOB say flat out that Hanson’s already got that composure. Morton’s year last year would lead one to believe he’s got a lot of work to do.

I’ll admit that Morton’s stuff appears to be better than Davies. But Davies’ stuff was pretty highly touted too and he’s done nothing but be batted around.

I mean, how many guys do you see that have outstanding stuff but can’t ever harness the mental portion and, therefore, never succeed?

This is not a legit comparison, but how about (gasp) Resop? Dude threw almost 100 mph but couldn’t do jack with it because he couldn’t throw strikes and didn’t know how to pitch.

Sorry, man, but I’m just not that sad to see Morton go, if he does. I might eat those words in a year or two, but probably not. Even if he does mature into a #2 or #3, he’s still likely not ever going to be Jake Peavy.

By Bama

November 13, 2008 2:03 AM | Link to this

DOB, Thanks for info from agent. I’m sure he’s got a little scratch. Hope he moves fast so FW can get on with FA. Great to have DOB on the inside to keep us informed.

By Coach ( Skip and Pete will be missed)

November 13, 2008 2:03 AM | Link to this

I’m gonna have an OMG moment. When Saltywoody brought up Kyle Davies I just had to look. And you know what I found out? Yea, that’s right. Davies wasn’t half bad in 2008. He was 9-7 with an ERA of 4.06. It’s just another lesson learned concerning the risk of trading young talented pitching.

By Saltywoody

November 13, 2008 2:08 AM | Link to this

Coach

The only reason I made the Davies comparison was that I really liked him when he first came up, too. He was really good at first, especially in that Sox game at Fenway. But, he lost his confidence along the way and that was that.

That’s why Morton concerns me. Dude has never even really found his confidence in the first place. Doesn’t matter how good your stuff is if you don’t believe in it.

By Cherokee

November 13, 2008 2:12 AM | Link to this

I see that the earlier demand of Flowers and it’s subsequent dismassal seems to make many of us less opposed to a fourth player. Was that the plan?

By Coach ( Skip and Pete will be missed)

November 13, 2008 2:15 AM | Link to this

Davies was traded for Octavio Dotel. Morton is possibly being included in the trade for Jake Peavy. That tells me everything I need to know.

Resop? C’mon. That lunkhead is a thrower, not a pitcher. The kid with the 100 MPH heater (Resop) is about to start over with his fourth ML organization at the age of 25.

By Saltywoody

November 13, 2008 2:25 AM | Link to this

Octavio Dotel was actually meant to be a pretty big piece in a struggling bullpen to help with the stretch run. He was pitching pretty well at the time.

Morton, on the other hand, is one of FOUR pieces being traded for Peavy, and he’s not even the centerpiece (Escobar is). So, that actually shouldn’t tell you that much.

And I mentioned Resop for two reasons. 1. For precisely the reason that he was a “lunkhead” (great description). 2. Not many people throw 100 MPH, but even people that do won’t succeed unless they harness it.

By nolie

November 13, 2008 2:30 AM | Link to this

Pitching is like real estate, its all about location location location. Neiteh Reyes nor Morton have shown yet that they are capable of regularly putting their stuff where it will do the most good. If they can learn that and gain confidence in it, they both have good enough stuff to be at least moderately successful;as does Davies for that matter. None of them have more than a snowball’s chance of ever becoming Peavy.

Coach some of us have already discussed (well at least mentioned) Davies decent 2008 here on the board.

By Coach ( Skip and Pete will be missed)

November 13, 2008 2:36 AM | Link to this

When it comes to Jake Peavy, I agree. His contract whether it be for four or five years isn’t an obstacle. Nor is his insistence on having his no trade clause extended through the end of the current contract.

But, if I were Jake Peavy, I would have to ask myself, which team is capable of competing and who has the best chance of getting to the WS in short order. I think the answer is obvious to all.

I’m also sure that Jake wants to play close to home. Then again, he also wants to play for a winner.

So, who and what is the real deal breaker in all this? The answer: Jake Peavy.

By Saltywoody

November 13, 2008 2:45 AM | Link to this

Agreed. Peavy makes or breaks this.

But you know what? What’s to say that the Cubs are going to win? Sure, they’ve come close recently. And their team looks great on paper.

But Zambrano struggled noticeably this year, Dempster’s not a given (and though he appears to have figured things out, he was rough for a number of years beforehand), Harden’s always on the shelf, Lily is hot and cold, Kerry Wood is injured a lot and might not get resigned.

And their offense? It’s good, for sure. But, again, they’re counting on a lot of guys that haven’t been great in the clutch.

AND, though I haven’t seen a lot of talk about it, I can’t see Chicago as a place Peavy would like to pitch in as much. It’s a hitter’s ballpark, as some here have mentioned, it’s far away from the South, and it’s frickin cold there, man.

Depending on what the Cubs do about their rotation and bullpen, the Braves could actually field a much stronger rotation in coming years as opposed to the Cubs really needing to succeed next year, based on who they have.

By Bobby's Cox

November 13, 2008 3:03 AM | Link to this

So it looks like the Braves will get Peavy after all. I want to say I hate the deal, but can’t. Giving up Escobar, seeing Peavy wanting concessions like the no-trade clause + the 4th year guaranteed $22 mil option + travel concessions + his history of minor elbow/shoulder injuries, ALL make me want to hate this deal.

But, seeing a possible rotation of Peavy, (Dempster/CC/Lowe/Sheets), Jair, Hanson, and Hampton (as the possible lone lefty), with Hudson in the mix next year, and I can’t necessarily hate it.

Frank Wren is a good GM with the right approach, even if the trade is way above the proposed Cubs offer of Pie, Cedeno, and Marshall. If that’s really the offer, and if it’s really down to 2 teams, then maybe we are over-paying. Maybe it won’t matter.

I assume Kelly Johnson stays now, and that means no Ludwick. On to Nelson Cruz?

By nolie

November 13, 2008 3:06 AM | Link to this

Depending on what the Cubs do about their rotation and bullpen, the Braves could actually field a much stronger rotation in coming years as opposed to the Cubs really needing to succeed next year, based on who they haveSaltywoody

valid points. Trying to look ahead 5 years and determine which team will be the most successful over that period of time is mental masturbation. Just no way to know. too many variables. I doubt that he bases any decision on that. I still thinks its a ploy for garnering what contract details he wants.

By Bobby's Cox

November 13, 2008 3:20 AM | Link to this

Jake Peavy VS. the top NL East Competition

Jake Peavy career vs. the Phillies:

5GS, 2 W, 2 L, 33.2 IP, 34K, 13 BB, 3.21 ERA, 1.25 WHIP, .232 BAA

Jake Peavy career vs. the Mets:

9GS, 4W, 2L , 57IP, 57K, 22 BB, 3.32 ERA, 1.25 WHIP, .225 BAA.

Career at Citizens Bank Park:

1GS, ND, 7IP, 6H, 3ER, 3BB, 9K, .240 BAA

Career at Mets:

5GS, 3W, 1L, 31 IP, 33K, 17BB, 25H, 16ER, 4.65 ERA, 1.35 WHIP, .214 BAA

Career at Florida:

4GS, 2W, 2L, 25.1 IP, 35K, 8 BB, 2.13 ERA, 1.03 WHIP, .194 BAA

Career VS. Florida:

8 GS, 4W, 4L, 51.1 IP, 67 K, 15 BB, 3.16 ERA, 1.13 WHIP, .225 BAA.

Not outstanding, but pretty damn solid.

By Knee-jerk reaction from ajc headline

November 13, 2008 4:37 AM | Link to this

Can we puh-LEAZE pencil in Flowers for the ‘09 lineup?!

By Bravo Nam

November 13, 2008 6:28 AM | Link to this

If the Bravos pick up Peavy, I think the free agent starter they’ll go after hard is Lowe, rather than Burnett or Dempster. While Peavy is an ace, there are some minor question marks over how his arm will hold up. Burnett and Dempster are more erratic, less consistent and have more question marks about their health than Lowe. Lowe’s resiliency, reliability and demeanour is the type of stuff the Bravos management salivate over. He also brings more experience and veteran leadership than the other two guys…I think the Bravos will go for Lowe hard, even prepared to pay a couple of extra mill than they’d prefer if need be…I think they’ll look at 2 years with a mutual option for a third…all of this depends though on whether Lowe is as enamoured with the Braves as I think they are of him.

By Efrim

November 13, 2008 7:03 AM | Link to this

The Padres will do very well in this deal if they get Yunel Escobar, Gorkys Hernandez, Charlie Morton and either Jeff Locke or Cole Rohrbough. That is the Braves starting SS, 2 Top 10 prospects, and another young starter in Morton.

If the Braves are giving the Padres a choice of Morton or Reyes, and a choice of Boyer, Locke or Rohrbough, I really hope they choose Reyes and Boyer. But I have a feeling that they aren’t that dumb. It will be interesting to see what the media reaction is to this trade. I’m sure some will say, “What are you crazy, it’s Jake Peavy?!?!?!” But I guarentee some others will say that the Braves, in their current state, gave up too much.

Oh well, This deal is made, and they keep Schafer, Heyward, Hanson, Freeman, Flowers(in my mind their top 5 prospects), as well as Teheran and Delgado, and hopefully one of Rohrbough or Locke. Maybe both……

No more trading Top 10 prospects for the rest of the offseason……please?

By TheAntiMe

November 13, 2008 7:14 AM | Link to this

I like Tyler Flowers and definitely think the Braves should keep him. However, I’m not so crazy about replacing Casey Kotchman with either him or Brian McCann.

IMO, defense at the infield corners is very important for a MLB team’s success. I love you, Chipper, but our defense at 3B has been a bit inconsistent the past season or two.

Also, we’ve been spoiled over the last season and a half by having 2 Gold Glove calibur players (Mark Teixeira and Casey Kotchman) fielding the position at 1B.

I’m pretty confident that if Flowers continues to progress as he has over the past year that he will be promoted to Atlanta by 2010, at the latest. I have to believe that our manager will find a way to get his bat in the line-up either through having him learn to play in the outfield, backing up Brian McCann at catcher, as a pinch-hitter coming off of the bench, or most likely, all of the above.

I can’t see the Braves trading a star player in Teixeira for an excellent 1B in Casey Kotchman just to have someone with little or no experience try to learn the position through on-the-job training.

By steven

November 13, 2008 7:30 AM | Link to this

Actually im tired of this Peavy thing. I think the Pads are starting to get stupid in what they want. We have offered Escobar and a pitcher with a prospect. A proven ss with a major league experienced pitcher and a prospect for the outfield is a good deal for them. They continue to him haw around. Now its said that the Mets (read that in rumors) and whats this three way deal they are trying to find. Give me a break. The deal is either good or its not. Yes or no and move on. I think by Friday if the deal is not done then Wren needs to make really good offers to the free agents and put this thing to bed. That way we can work on the rest of the holes and come out of this a strong team ready to compete with the Phillies and Mets. Quite frankly, Im sick of the Pads and I really am beginning to think that Peavy is a spoiled ego pitcher we might even regret getting in the long run.

By cdinala

November 13, 2008 7:36 AM | Link to this

Dave, just a fyi of no great importance, but Camden is in southwest Alabama, about 90 minutes north of Mobile. Lots of hunting camps between Mobile and there, probably most not as nice as Jake’s though, i suspect.

By Bubdylan

November 13, 2008 7:54 AM | Link to this

Jake Peavy checks his voice mail: in a whispering voice “Chello… my name ees Yunel Escobar. Eef you are prepare jore veto power, I tell you to use eet. You wheel no like it here, Yake Peavy. This coaches frowning. Eef you flippa the bat for a meenit, they will frowning. Eef you make jore party in the circle of heeting, they are frowning and cut away jore best friend from team, okay? Go to tchicago, man. Remember I tell you.” click

beep

“Chello? Yake. Ees Yunel again. I am sorry, ees very good here. You come here and I am a Padre, yeah? Okay. Ees beautiful team, Atlanta. Remember I tell you. Forget about before. I am drinking a big drink. Bye.”

beep… you have seventy-two more messages….

By ChopChop

November 13, 2008 8:04 AM | Link to this

This Peavy thing is more like a soap opera. With Kevin Towers at the helm, it’s easy to see why San Diego has plummeted to the depths of mediocrity. It’s free agent day, I hope Frank Wren pulls a quick one, inks two starters and says adios to Towers.

By TommyP

November 13, 2008 8:32 AM | Link to this

Will it happen today? Tomorrow is the FA opening day, right?

I get the feeling Peavy is a Brave come tonight.

I also get the feeling that the big LF bat is going to be Jermaine Dye. I’m not sure what the ChiSox will be asking but he’s just a guy that’s a Brave “fit.”

At $11.5 million this year and a $12 million mutual option next year, that’s not bad for a slugger. The price you concern yourself with is prospects/players.

By DannyFish

November 13, 2008 8:36 AM | Link to this

AntiMe

Did you say that Chipper’s defense at 3rd has been inconsistant??? I understand if you are saying that 3B has been inconsistant because he has been in and out of the line up but when he is healthy Chipper is one of the best defensive 3rd basemen in the NL.

By Bill

November 13, 2008 8:42 AM | Link to this

Why not keep Flowers and move him to first base in 2010. I believe when Freddie Freeman is ready, he is athletic enough to plays the OF. The future of the Braves are their top of the line prospects. We never know how a prospect will turn out until given a chance. Hope Wren does not trade top prospects.

By Eware

November 13, 2008 8:47 AM | Link to this

The Peavy deal expanding to four players is the deal-breaker for me. Yes, I would love to have him, but this is a lot to give up. I say we just sign a Burnett or Lowe and then get another lower tiered pitcher through trade.

Would Dye be willing to play left field? I hope so. Howabout Jim Edmonds? We could platoon him with B. Jones…

Those are my stupid, uninformed recommendations.

By Dadgum

November 13, 2008 8:51 AM | Link to this

DOB…Axlerod has indicated earlier that under no circumstances will Peavy go to Atlanta(or anywhere else) without a no-trade clause extending through his option year. According to him that is not negotiable. Agree with you that this is most likely a moot point though as he should be a stud pitcher for at least through his contract if not option year.

I hope it is Boyer that is going if we have to include a 4th player.

As for the CMA’s last night. Really, could it possibly have been any more boring than that. Dreadful. Save for Carrie Underwood’s & Jennifer Nettles’ performances it was listless. Someone please tell me that wasn’t the same Eagles that played JPJ Arena in Charlottesville recently. Talk about uninspired performances. Give credit to the CMA’s for at least running acts up there seemingly non-stop. When the much tauted “surprise guest” legend turned out to be Shania Twain, well, it was simply in keeping with the whole night. Again, dreadful.

Rock on….was flicking channels and caught Pearl Jam (with orchestra) covering Quadrophenia by The Who on VH1 Classics. PHENOMENAL! I went to bed happy. The CMA’s were a distant memory. Thank God for Rock & Roll. Thanks Elvis, Robert Johnson, Sonny Boy Williamson, et al.

By Original Jon

November 13, 2008 8:54 AM | Link to this

I just thought of something…..not saying that this will happen, but what if we finally get all the players in the deal worked out and the Padres go and ask Peavy to waive his no-trade to Atlanta and he says NO? How bad would that suck? How would you guys feel?

By David O'Brien

November 13, 2008 8:56 AM | Link to this

cdinala, thanks for the info. i should’ve checked that. glad you told me now before i wrote it another 10 times in stories. I appreciate the assist.

By Don't Trade Franceour, Sheesh

November 13, 2008 9:04 AM | Link to this

Eware, Edmonds is an interesting option…His numbers have been in decline but he hit over 20 HR last year and even with old legs is an excellent defensive LF. He could come very affordable, too. Just a concern of how much he has left.

By chuckw/deadjournalist

November 13, 2008 9:04 AM | Link to this

• while everyone talks about mccann or flowers moving to first, isn’t a more realistic possibility that one of them could move to third in a few years? there’s a laundry list of guys who have done it from joe torre to todd zeile.

• is there a possibility that the/one of the free agent pitcher(s) is signed - assuming the peavy deal is completed - would be someone along the lines of paul byrd?

• assuming the peavy deal gets done, that leaves a little less than 30mil of the projected budget availability. $16mil for a top line starter leaves $10-14mil for LF and potentially a SS or another starter. would you rather have a league-average established starter for $6-8mil or a average SS (like Izturis) for the same $ range?

• i’ll take a pitcher and platoon the SS position with lil’bridge. i’ll take premium defense and below average offense at SS over average offense and average defense … especially if it means a 5% difference in payroll.

• better value for ‘09: G-Braves season tickets or Braves?

• i may be cutting against the grain here, but i think the shot flowers is in a braves uniform before september next year is better than 50/50. if he isn’t traded.

• remember when brandon jones was thought to be the ‘09 starting left fielder several years back?

• the way the game is changing, the thought of signing an over-the-hill outfielder for more than 1 year plus an option scares the p** out of me.

By Shaun

November 13, 2008 9:08 AM | Link to this

Braveheart, regarding that article “Does experience matter in the postseason?,” seems to me that teams that can acquire good postseason veterans are also the teams that are more likely to play and win in the postseason. They are also the teams that can afford to acquire high strikeout pitchers and great closers.

In other words, experience may correlate with postseason success but I’m not sure I’m convinced that experience is a major factor in a team’s ability to win in the postseason.

By Don't Trade Franceour, Sheesh

November 13, 2008 9:22 AM | Link to this

Is anyone else excited to see the Mets throw the GDP of a small country a Fransisco Rodriguez?

The guy can clearly flat-out play, but will quickly find sunny Anaheim is a loooooonnnnggg way from dreary New York. Plus there is the NY inquisition (read: media). I just don’t see K-Rod putting up anything near the record numbers he had last year in a New Shea.

By DAP

November 13, 2008 9:32 AM | Link to this

saltywoody thanx for the pics from last night. funny stuff.

bubdylan halarious, the escobar voice mail thing. awesome. good job.

By Couch Tater

November 13, 2008 9:34 AM | Link to this

Chop Chop @ 8:04- I think Towers is in a “no-win”. The owner supposedly wants payroll slashed and the fans want a winner in the new park they voted on, in a mid-market town. He’s trying to leverage as much as possible. Wouldn’t you?

On another note: Is Bumlebush, Alabama a suburb of Camden? And do they pre-empt ESPN radio with “The Huntin’ with Langerhans and LaRoche Show”? Or “Free-Agents: Huntin’ for Bucks or Bucks”?

By Eware

November 13, 2008 9:35 AM | Link to this

DT Franceour, Sheesh, I agree with your thoughts on the Mets signing K-Rod. I also hope they sign Manny, cause I think he’ll destroy their clubhouse.

David Wright (Brasky) recently said the Mets need a “Facelift”, signing Manny would be like Kenny Rogers facelift…google that one…its scary. Apparently, he didn’t know when to fold ‘em or run away.

By Braveheart

November 13, 2008 9:36 AM | Link to this

In other words, experience may correlate with postseason success but I’m not sure I’m convinced that experience is a major factor in a team’s ability to win in the postseason.

Yeah, Shaun, I dunno. I go both ways on it. Was really just throwing it out there ‘cause I came across it and thought it was interesting and it’s an issue often talked about on here.

By Yars

November 13, 2008 9:40 AM | Link to this

If it takes giving up 4 or 5 players for Peavy, let’s do it. The main attraction is obviously Escobar. We pretty much gave up on Jo Jo & Morton. They had their opportunities already. Too early to tell what Hernandez will amount to. Isn’t he being blocked anyway by Schafer? Seems like Peavy is uncertain what kind of team the Braves will have in ‘09. Of course he wants to play for a winner. Wren needs to get Hoss to give him a call & convince him we’re gonna be contenders in ‘09.dadgum…….the CMA’s were bloody awful. I am not a fan of today’s country music. Should it even be called country music? More like generic pop - country. Sure, I dig a few Toby Keith tracks, couple of Blake Shelton tracks. Stuff like Shania Twain, Carrie Underwood, even Faith Hill is really bad. Yet, so many people buy into it. Just my opinion.

By Jersey Gil

November 13, 2008 9:40 AM | Link to this

Hey Guys…Good News, is Mr Peavy is flying from San Juan PR Today to Alabama, say Mobile, he’s fly has to Stop In Atlanta.So He be in Atlanta today.

By Patrick

November 13, 2008 9:53 AM | Link to this

Here is the latest from Ken Rosenthal: http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8789624/Report:-Braves-on-verge-of-landing-Peavy

By McFann O –[zzz]

November 13, 2008 9:54 AM | Link to this

cabravesfane @ 10:24—

Couldn’t agree more.

THEY MIGHT TRADE BOYER??? Sweet dreams!

Waive that no-trade clause, Peavy!

By AdirondackDave

November 13, 2008 9:54 AM | Link to this

Bubdylan —- Your 7:54 very amusing. Nothing like a chuckle to start the day.

By ChopChop

November 13, 2008 10:00 AM | Link to this

Jermaine Dye. I have to put on blinders and not look at his personality. If you look at his numbers, he would be a nice fill for a year. I met him several years ago at Spring Training. He’s not a very personable fellow to say the least. I guess that’s the trade off for getting a player who hit .292 with 34 HR and 96 RBI. I still think that the Braves need one more bat regardless of what they do with the pitching if they are going to compete with NY Mets and the World Champion Philadelphia Phillies. IF the trade for Peavy goes through as many think, the question marks are SS, CF and RF. Yes, right field. Atlanta can’t stand another year of JF hitting .239.

By Bama

November 13, 2008 10:07 AM | Link to this

DOB, could you get Peavy’s agent on phone or E-mail and see whats going on? We all sound like kids in a candy store. What’s that song don’t stop believin? I know you’re working…

By macdwolfpack

November 13, 2008 10:07 AM | Link to this

My perfect trade would be Escobar, Reyes, Boyer, and Schaeffer (but could live with Hernandez) and I would laugh all the way.

By Doc Holliday

November 13, 2008 10:10 AM | Link to this

Yunel Escobar, Gorkys Hernandez, Charlie Morton or Jo-Jo Reyes, and Blaine Boyer or one of two minor league southpaws. Miller says the Padres are leaning toward Morton and Boyer.

In my opinion……..thats too much…………..I think Yunel+Morton+Boyer should be enough.

Why in hell should we send Gorky………that way to o much to ask………..but………once again…………we have little to no options.

Padres are demanding that much because they know we are desperate. And we are indeed.

By BB FAN

November 13, 2008 10:13 AM | Link to this

I hope that report is wrong. Including Escobar along with Gorkys and Morton or JoJo and Boyer or Locke is beyond insanity. That is way too much to give up for a “number 1” picther who is only sold outside Petco Park and has had Shoulder and elbow issues. No other team has a public offer that beats 3 of those guys. Wren needs to realize he is bidding against himself. He then needs to tell SD the deal is Escobar, JoJo and Gorkys for Peavy; take it leave it!

By ChopChop

November 13, 2008 10:16 AM | Link to this

Bama, it’s “Don’t Stop Believin’” by Journey. My perfect trade would bring Adrian Gonzalez with Peavy. I’m not a big Casey Kotchman fan.

By Braveheart

November 13, 2008 10:19 AM | Link to this

I love you, Chipper, but our defense at 3B has been a bit inconsistent the past season or two.

What are you talking about? 10 has been a really good defender the last two years. He’s not quite on that elite Rolen/Feliz/Beltre level defensively but 10 has become a + defender in his old age. Everyone who has seen him the last two seasons has noticed how much better he’s become. Most of the metrics agree as well and he grades out somewhere between +5 to +10 runs a year (even in his limited time) at third.

As far as corner infield defense, it’s great to be good there but you can’t get carried away with it either. C, SS, CF, 2B are the defensive slots. Towards the end of Don Mattingly’s career, everyone and their mother called into WFAN for months making every excuse for not getting a better first baseman. Oh, he’s the leader. Oh, he’s an elite defensive first baseman, etc. etc., etc. Where are you gonna find another elite defensive first baseman like him? The reality was though he wasn’t hitting anymore and it was time to move on. They went with Tino Martinez and Cecil Fielder instead and won the World Series. Great defense at first is nice but hitting at first is much nicer.

With that being said, Kotchman could bring value to the team with his glove. If, for whatever reason, he only has a .750 ops next season but is +15 runs with his glove like he has been the last two seasons, then his glove and bat combined allegedy would have the run equivalency of about an .815 ops first baseman. If you believe that kind of statistical voodoo, his defense turns Kotchman from a very substandard hitter relative to the average first baseman to having the overall value in his game of an average first baseman. And if he hits like an average first baseman with an ops of .820 or so and is +15 with the glove again, then he has the overall value of an .885 or so ops first baseman. Well, at least, that’s what they say

That’s something some of you fellas are missing with Escobar. If he’s +10 runs defensively as many say, that has the same run equivalency as raising his ops 43 points; or, more directly, it has the run eqivalency effect of raising his obp alone 30 points if you assume no corresponding gain in slg; or of raising his SLG by 55 points if you assume no corresponding gain in obp. So when you hear that Escobar is a +10 defender and you look at his batting stats, instead of just seeing .366 obp, .401 slg, what you should see from last season is .396 obp, .401 slg OR .366 obp, .456 SLG. But, anyways, it’s time to move on. Sounds like the trade is about to be made regardless of how annyoed I am that Escobar is involved in it.

By KC

November 13, 2008 10:24 AM | Link to this

From MLBtradRumors.com: CBSSports.com’s Scott Miller, using careful language, suggested the Padres and Braves neared a Jake Peavy trade last night. Ken Rosenthal, however, says the Padres have not communicated acceptance of the Braves’ offer at this time.

By DAP

November 13, 2008 10:25 AM | Link to this

i would never have watched the CMAs but my wife is pretty into it. carrie underwood is amazing…such a great voice, i am a fan of hers. brad paisley is good as well, a very good guitar player. i hate kenny chesney, but i love reggae, so i actually liked his performance with the wailers.

modern country is mostly pop, alot of meaningless stuff, but there are some gems in there to.

By kdbanks

November 13, 2008 10:27 AM | Link to this

Some guy named Frank just called me (I may or may not be a bookie) and asked what the odds were that the Peavy deal gets done today.

I told him it’s 10-1 it’s done today, and 20-1 it’s done today and Peavy’s a Brave.

He put 5 grand down on Peavy becoming a Brave today. Think that means something?

By Efrim

November 13, 2008 10:34 AM | Link to this

Can this deal just get done? It’s strange to me that the same group of players talked about for days on end are still, at this time, being talked about. I can’t wait for the agreement to actually happen and the proposal to get in front of Jake Peavy. Imagine if the guy said he didn’t want to play for us, wow, I would be speechless. I’m sure he’ll agree, but I honestly don’t want to read that he “prefers the Cubs”. Him coming to Atlanta will make this team better. He shouldn’t worry about what additional moves they will make. The Braves acquiring Peavy should show that they mean business and that they want to win.

By Patrick

November 13, 2008 10:34 AM | Link to this

I’m Boyer’s biggest fan, easily, especially since he went to my high school back in the day.

But including him would be better than Locke or Rorhborough, easily. I say do it, and hope Peavy accepts today.

By MizzouBravesFan

November 13, 2008 10:35 AM | Link to this

If it doesn’t happen today, will it happen at all?

To me, this is Wren’s D-Day…time to get it done SD.

Actually looks like it’s getting close, awesome news.

Would love to get Peavy today and make an offer to Burnett tomorrow.

By David O'Brien

November 13, 2008 10:35 AM | Link to this

The Peavy deal expanding to four players is the deal-breaker for me.Eware

You would really come all this way in negotations, then pull the plug on a Peavy deal rather than give up, say, Blaine Boyer as a fourth player in the package? Really?

By KC

November 13, 2008 10:36 AM | Link to this

Coach ( Skip and Pete will be missed): I don’t think think trading for Peavy leaves us with no bargaining chips.

If the rumors are true, and the deal revolves around guys like Escobar / JoJo / Boyer / Morton… then we really haven’t dented our farm system much at all. Gorkys and a couple mid-level prospects would be the extent of it.

Still plenty of depth left to work with.

The Braves have the resources (both in talent and money) to trade for Peavy, sign a free agent starter, sign Renteria (as a stopgap), and trade for someone like Dye.

By David O'Brien

November 13, 2008 10:37 AM | Link to this

Dadgum: Why would you punish yourself watching the CMA soft-pop awards?

By stamper

November 13, 2008 10:38 AM | Link to this

so… Padres want, Escobar, Gorkys, Morton and Boyer. And we get…. Peavy? i hate 4 for 1 deals. hate em.

By KC

November 13, 2008 10:39 AM | Link to this

FOXSPORTS.COM - Ken Rosenthal:

“If the Braves are getting Jake Peavy, it’s news to them.”

“The Braves are on the verge of a trade agreement with the Padres for Peavy, according to CBSSportsline.com, but the Padres have yet to communicate their acceptance of a Braves’ offer to Atlanta officials, major-league sources say.”

“The Cubs also have not heard back from the Padres, sources say. Manager Lou Piniella downplayed his team’s pursuit of Peavy on Wednesday, calling it “only talk,” but the Cubs remain interested in making a deal.”

“It is possible that the Padres have decided internally to proceed with the Braves, then finalize the details later Thursday. The teams spoke again on Wednesday, continuing discussions that have lasted for over a month.”

“The Padres, according to CBSSportsline.com, will receive shortstop Yunel Escobar, Class A outfielder Gorkys Hernandez, either right- hander Charlie Morton or left-hander Jo-Jo Reyes and either reliever Blaine Boyer or one of two minor-league left-handers, one of whom is Jeff Locke.”

“Most of those names have been under discussion since the beginning of the talks, and a source with knowledge of the conversations acknowledged that those players would form the approximate framework of a trade.”

“Peavy must waive his no-trade clause for any deal to be completed, but the Braves were one of five teams on a wish list that he submitted to the Padres at the start of the off-season.”

By Lee in S GA

November 13, 2008 10:40 AM | Link to this

If the trade happens, the Braves IMO need to start off strong in 2009. First the Tex trade and then losing more prospects in this trade will not drain the farm system entirely but no doubt it will limit its future as far as trading away younger talent in exchange for a player or 2. in other words if they falter by mid-season next year they will need to suffer the consequences and play the younger talent. However, I do feel they would do a Tex like trade again if it meant giving Cox and company even a slight chance at making the post-season before he retires.

By BB FAN

November 13, 2008 10:40 AM | Link to this

If Wren gives up 4 guys, he’s as nuts as JS was in the Teixeira trade. I know Peavy is signed for up to 5 years, but that is way too much to give up for a “number 1” pitcher who has only been a solid pitcher outside Petco Park and has had shoulder and elbow issues his whole career.

Why not just go after Ben Sheets and Randy Wolf. Both will very likely only get 3 year deals. Wolf, probably 3 years for ~ $30 mill and Sheets probably 3 years for ~ $40 million. That is a lot less financial risk and Wren can keep all his prospects. I know both are injury risks, but so is Peavy. But it’s a lot less money and no players have to be lost for Wolf and Sheets.

Wren could sign Casey Blake to play left field and back up Chipper at 3B. I’ve seen his agent say he wants 3 years, but I doubt he will get it. Two years for $14 million is a good raise for him. I think he has played enough outfield, though I could be wrong. If he can’t play LF, then sign Juan Rivera instead. Or Ibanez.

And I really think by the end of ‘09, Flowers will be able to contribute. I’ve seen reports say that he is athletic so would he be able to play left field in addition to backing up McCann?

This would allow for the kids to develope over the next 2 years. Over the next three years, the Braves would likely have Flowers, Schafer, Hanson, Morton, Freeman and Heyward and others in make it to Atlanta. All likely by 2011, some obviously sooner. Morton hopefully will develop the confidence by then.

I really think this group of prospects in the Braves organization is special and could really be exciting to watch if they are kept together.

By semiballcoach

November 13, 2008 10:40 AM | Link to this

watching cna’s reminds me of alan jackson’s “gone country” song—-darius rucker, the eagles, jessica simpson, etc…not really country music anymore…i didn’t hear any mention of merle haggard and his tumor….however—i did enjoy looking at shania

By semiballcoach

November 13, 2008 10:40 AM | Link to this

watching cna’s reminds me of alan jackson’s “gone country” song—-darius rucker, the eagles, jessica simpson, etc…not really country music anymore…i didn’t hear any mention of merle haggard and his tumor….however—i did enjoy looking at shania

By Patrick

November 13, 2008 10:44 AM | Link to this

DOB, just wondering, if Peavy decides to waive it today, who would hear about it first media-wise? You? SI? ESPN? Rosenthal? Shanks? Who normally has gotten the scoop? From what I recall, usually it’s you or SI, but I just wanted to check. I’ll be on your blog all day, as usual.

By GermanBravesFan

November 13, 2008 10:47 AM | Link to this

DOB: what do you think Renteria’s current “market value” is? Would the Braves be able to get him for $5 million or less on a one-year contract?

By Braveheart

November 13, 2008 10:48 AM | Link to this

It’s the same offer the Braves have discussed for days on end with Padres, but I think the only difference is they agreed to add the fourth player, either Boyer (Braveheart, they must have read your note earlier) or one of the lefty prospects, Locke or Rohrbough.

Okay, here’s today three names: Kila, Thorman, Barbaro. Those guys are friggin’ awesome. If losing Escobar means we keep those three studs, then I’ll forever hold my peace about this trade.

By brent a.

November 13, 2008 10:48 AM | Link to this

DOB,

Love your 10:35 AM post.

I mean, come on? If Blaine Boyer is really all it takes to get this thing done (based upon what we had already accepted - Escobar, etc.), how many of us wouldn’t rush over to TF and help pack Boyer’s bags?

In fact, I’m heading down to Capitol Ave to change the address on my driver’s license this morning. Please let me know if there is anything I can do to help get this trade completed.

By McFann O –[zzz]

November 13, 2008 10:52 AM | Link to this

Bubdylan—

That 7:54 was very funny! Good stuff!

Saltywoody I’m fashioning the “Hudson” on the back of my Braves t-shirt into a “Peavy” as we type.

Well, since Hudson’s #15, you should have fashioned the “Hudson” into a “Flowers”…

By siskel

November 13, 2008 10:53 AM | Link to this

DOB

What are the Braves plans for Brandon Jones next year?

By Wayne

November 13, 2008 10:54 AM | Link to this

McFann What I was referring to last night was not a strict platoon situation. Let me explain if I can.

McCann is the primary catcher, but we reinstitute some sort of “Flowers is going to catch Pitcher A” and maybe one additional game every week or two. In other words, we would get Mac some more rest behind the dish. We have a very capable (potentially, as I don’t think this would work in 2009) hitter and catcher in Flowers.

When Flowers is catching, we could either rest Mac completely, or get him skilled enough at first to go over there and play say 2 out of every 3 games he doesn’t catch.

Flowers plays first when he is not catching.

It’s not really a platoon at all. It is more of an comprehensive rest plan that tries to keep both players bats in the lineup at least 90% of the time each.

I have always thought that a NL team (no DH) is at a big disadvantage when one of their top hitters is the catcher, because of the need to rest the catcher more frequently than other positions.

Whaddya think??? Just trying to get Mac more AB’s and rest, not less.

Gotta run for a few hours. Check back in later for your response. (others are welcome to respond also.)

Don’t major league players have cell phones with voice mail???? I know when I am traveling, my boss or customers can call and I will get back with them as soon as I land in my destination city. Lots of these fancy phones also have email capabilities.

Come on Jake, let’s git er done!

By MGL

November 13, 2008 10:54 AM | Link to this

Peavy’s demands to accept a trade to Atlanta:

1) Guarantee Extension 2) Full No-Trade Clause 3) Private Jet Service on Standby for Family Plus Limo Service 4) Penthouse Suite at the Ritz 5) Two Bedroom Suite for all Away Games 6) Private Room in Clubhouse with 60” Plasma TV and Barry Bonds Quality Recliner 7) Guaranteed World Series Ring 8) Week of Free Hunting at the Double-Dime

By Thrillhouse44

November 13, 2008 11:00 AM | Link to this

Okay, here’s today three names: Kila, Thorman, Barbaro. Those guys are friggin’ awesome. If losing Escobar means we keep those three studs, then I’ll forever hold my peace about this trade.

Don’t put that on blast, Braveheart. You don’t know who’s reading this thing. If Thorman leaves, I’m holding you responsible.

By Original Jon

November 13, 2008 11:00 AM | Link to this

Apparently, Lou says he has heard nothing from Jim Hendry about trading for Jake Peavy, and Lou is pretty much always kept in the loop regarding trades for a player, especially one of this magnitude. So I think what has been going on is that Kevin Towers is trying to drive up the quality of players from the Braves by saying the Cubs were seriously interested, when they werent. And Barry Axelrod is saying Peavy is concerned about being traded to the Braves if Escobar is part of the deal because although Towers wouldnt mind Escobar, he would really rather have Hanson.

So basically Towers is trying to get the Braves to feel pressured to get a deal done before he decides to deal him to the Cubs by saying they are so interested, and since he would rather have Hanson, he is having his good buddy Axelrod say Peavy likely wont waive no-trade if Escobar is included, so that way, Wren feels pressured and he has to give up Hanson.

Probably just overstating here, but it seems odd that Lou hasnt even been discussing Peavy with Hendry.

By Eware

November 13, 2008 11:01 AM | Link to this

Sure DOB, howabout we wait 2 more months and throw in 2-3 more players. Very business-minded thought process. What’s the breaking point? Eventually, you have to cut your loses and move on. I understand your argument and as a fan, I would like to agree. But, I think Towers is over-reaching here. Let’s not down-play Boyer here. He was a good reliever for us until Bobby began overusing him.

By Shaun

November 13, 2008 11:03 AM | Link to this

BB FAN, the Braves aren’t giving up any of the prospects most likely to become impact major leaguers—Heyward, Hanson or Schafer.

Peavy is no more of an injury risk than Ben Sheets, has pitched better and is younger.

By kdbanks

November 13, 2008 11:03 AM | Link to this

Folks, giving up 1 proven MLB player and 3 prospects (or Boyer and 2 prospects) is very, very reasonable when what you’re getting is a young, #1 pitcher who’s under a long-term, comparatively inexpensive contract.

How can anyone who suffered through the starting pitching tragedy that was the Braves in 2008 not be salivating at the thought of this deal? Dear God people, if not for JJ pitching above his head and Santa Maria blessing us with Jorge Campillo out of nowhere, we would have been hard pressed to win 60 games. As it is we were 18 games under .500.

It takes a bunch of young potential to get a proven talent, and I don’t see anything one-sided about the proposed deal.

By MIke

November 13, 2008 11:06 AM | Link to this

I will personally drive Blaine Boyer and his flat 95mph fastball to SD. I hate to give up Esco, but we have to get this deal done. And sign Burnett, he will be a neast again in the NL.

By Nocturnal Owl

November 13, 2008 11:08 AM | Link to this

MGL consider it sold. He’s not asking too much there, I’d throw in a few complementary cars with the package.

By Mr. Snrub

November 13, 2008 11:08 AM | Link to this

wayne, didn’t see your suggestion last night, but I was thinking of something along the same lines. Not this year, but in 2010, Flowers catches 2 pitchers, mccann catches 3. On non catching days, they play 1B. Would preserve both of them, and get each a regular amount of at bats for an entire season. of course you work in off days and such, but in general it seems to benefit both players, as well as the team. maybe even frees up a roster spot for an extra pitcher…

By Original Jon

November 13, 2008 11:09 AM | Link to this

Wayne A few things here. First off McCann is not a first baseman, you cannot just switch him over there when need be to get Flowers at bats. Second, Flowers is not a first baseman, same goes for him as it does McCann. Third, you said Just trying to get Mac more AB’s and rest, not less. Umm, how in the world is giving him more rest going to give him more at bats? Explain that one if you would.

By Original Jon

November 13, 2008 11:12 AM | Link to this

Shaun Peavy is no more of an injury risk than Ben Sheets

Not sure if thats the type of thing you should tell someone when you are trying to sell them on the idea that Peavy is better.

By Mr. Snrub

November 13, 2008 11:20 AM | Link to this

orig jon - think he means rest from catching, not rest from playing (dont want to put words into his mouth though) i dont see a big problem with those guys spending a little time over the next year to play first. flowers played it for a whole year i believe. its only an idea though, no real chance at all of something like this happening

By McFann O –[zzz]

November 13, 2008 11:22 AM | Link to this

Wayne—

OK, I see what you’re saying…

I have no objections to having a backup catcher that cann hit well. I pray to God we don’t have the situation at BUC that we had this past season again.

I also have no objections to get Mac more ABs, but…

I don’t know…This seems like one of those, “You can’t have your cake and eat it, too” things—or more appropriately, “You can’t have your Mac and rest him, too.”

Maybe they could get him skilled enough to play first—just like the Dodgers had Martin play some third this year. But do they want to that? That’s the Q.

You’re correct, it wouldn’t work in ‘09, as Flowers has not had an AB above A-ball. Perhaps we should see what he cann do at the higher levels before we try to plug him in with the big boys.

I will say this: I like the idea of assigning the backup to a certain pitcher. That totally works for me. And then the BUC cann catch the occasional DGANG or anytime when Mac just needs an extra day. I would love to have a BUC that could hit well enough so that they would not be “afraid” to do that.

Yes, the NL does have a slight disadvantage when one of their best hitters is the catcher, though I myself have never cared for the DH.

By Grizzled Veteran

November 13, 2008 11:24 AM | Link to this

Wayne, re your 10:54 am post. I agree with you. Casey Stengel used to do exactly the same thing with the Yankees in the 50’s and 60’s with Yogi Berra, Elston Howard and Doc Blanchard. Worked very well for the Yankees. (Told you I was a grizzled veteran.)

By Braveheart

November 13, 2008 11:24 AM | Link to this

Apparently, Lou says he has heard nothing from Jim Hendry about trading for Jake Peavy, and Lou is pretty much always kept in the loop regarding trades for a player, especially one of this magnitude. So I think what has been going on is that Kevin Towers is trying to drive up the quality of players from the Braves by saying the Cubs were seriously interested, when they werent.

I agree. However, it could be that Lou is just saying that because he wants Wren to relax and get cocky and lower the offer from the Braves. The Cubs could then swoop on in like vultures.

Never trust anything any of them say. It’s all a game. Like Saddam. The more you boast about your WMDs, maybe I should doubt you have any. If you however claim you aren’t trying to get nukes like North Korea swore they weren’t for a decade, maybe you should believe that’s exactly what they’re trying to get.

By Chopper2Chipper

November 13, 2008 11:25 AM | Link to this

Looking back on it, I’m wondering if Salty was traded because of the potential of Flowers.

By kirknga

November 13, 2008 11:26 AM | Link to this

Wow. Now Boyer is leaving too?

I have to give Towers some credit, he is taking his time and getting a sweeter package. Apparently the Cubs offer is more attractive to them than most of us here are thinking.

So, a already good SS, a starting CF, a young major league ready starter, and a set-up man/closer(or 2 prospects)? We’re filling 4 spots for them and taking salary back too?

I know it’s Jake Peavy and all, but is it too much to ask for the Braves to hold the line now?

This smacks of desperation.

By Braveheart

November 13, 2008 11:26 AM | Link to this

wayne, didn’t see your suggestion last night, but I was thinking of something along the same lines. Not this year, but in 2010, Flowers catches 2 pitchers, mccann catches 3. On non catching days, they play 1B.

oh, no, the salty/mccann argument/idea revisited 16 months later.

By McFann O –[zzz]

November 13, 2008 11:29 AM | Link to this

One more thing—Maybe the idea of playing Mac at first would make a little more sense if he were in his thirties…but he’s only gonna be 25 next year. Not to mention he’ll be in better shape.

Yeah, OK, so Johnny Bench played a little OF when he was 22, but we don’t know the story behind that (do we? If you do, please share). Heck, maybe he wanted to give it a shot.

By DAP

November 13, 2008 11:30 AM | Link to this

who knew we’d need a big tub of goo to seal the deal.

By BB FAN

November 13, 2008 11:30 AM | Link to this

Shaun

If the rumored deal includes Escobar, Morton, Gorkys and Locke, then yes, those are very good prospects plus Escobar who is a proven gold glove caliber SS who is becoming one of the better hitting SS in baseball.

Anyway, as far as Peavy being younger and better than Sheets…yes he is younger, but how would Sheets numbers look if he picthed 1/2 of his starts in Petco Park and then a few more in pitcher freindly parks like Dodger Stadium and At&T in SF?

Don’t get me wrong, I like Peavy. I think he is a very talented pitcher. However, he has not proven he is that talented outside Petco Park. And he has had almost as many injuries as Sheets. I hope I’m wrong and he dominates at home and on the road as well as makes 32 + starts for 210 + innings each of the next 5 years… because there’s a lot of talent in the 4 players rumored to be going to SD.

If it was Escobar, JoJo, Gorkys and Boyer for sure, I may not mind. But I think SD will take Morton and Locke instead of JoJo and Boyer.

I just know that in Sheets, it would very likely be a 3 year deal due to the risk.

By Braveheart

November 13, 2008 11:32 AM | Link to this

Seriously, guys, Blaine Boyer is such a dog I’ve been hoping for a week now that Obama would take Boyer off our hands and give him to his little girls. Don’t know if Boyer is hypoallergenic though. I do know however that Boyer often seems allergic to effective pitching

By Lee in S GA

November 13, 2008 11:36 AM | Link to this

the Braves aren’t giving up any of the prospects most likely to become impact major leaguers—Heyward, Hanson or Schafer

Exactly Shaun

That is why this is taking so long. Someone’s got to cave eventually. I hope this does not prevent the Braves from going after a couple of free agent pitchers here quickly if nothing has been decided.

By BB FAN

November 13, 2008 11:38 AM | Link to this

kdbanks

My big concern is this “proven number 1 starter” has not been great outside of Petco Park and he has a history of shoulder and elbow injuries. The home/road splits are really scary when you consider how much of a pitcher’s park Petco Park really is. He is close to an average pitcher on the road for his career. And he’s not an innings eater like a true number 1 should be.

By mbatl

November 13, 2008 11:38 AM | Link to this

In the spirit of counting to 15 on one hand, we could have Flowers catch 2 days a week; play 1st 2 days a week, left field two days a week, and 3B 2 days a week.

When he comes to the plate, his theme song could be Eight Days a Week by the Beatles.

By McFann O –[zzz]

November 13, 2008 11:38 AM | Link to this

Braveheart oh, no, the salty/mccann argument/idea revisited 16 months later.

Haha! Seriously. Good thing I wasn’t around here for that…

By Don't Trade Franceour, Sheesh

November 13, 2008 11:38 AM | Link to this

What are the chances of the Braves pursuing this Dayan Viciedo kid? Maybe throw him in LF for a few years until Chipper retires and then we have a 3B. Maybe if we keep Escobar he would be more inclined to play here.

By Bubdylan

November 13, 2008 11:42 AM | Link to this

I like Blaine Boyer. I’m alone, ain’t I?

(G’mornin’ DAP, appreciate your kind words. Sorry I got so ruffled.)

By Nate

November 13, 2008 11:45 AM | Link to this

If the Braves give up Escobar, Morton, Gorkys and Locke, they have overpaid.

By Patrick

November 13, 2008 11:46 AM | Link to this

Ugh..

Now Bowman and Rosenthal are reporting that the teams are no closer to a deal than they were a week ago. This is the most drawn out process ever. If a deal does go down I don’t know if I’ll be happy, relieved or just worn out!

By kdbanks

November 13, 2008 11:46 AM | Link to this

BB Fan -

I flat refuse to argue with you about whether or not Peavy is a proven #1 starter. IMO he just is, dude. Think otherwise if you want, but I can’t see your justification. He just flat is a #1. And as DOB has said, how many true #1s are there in baseball? 10? 15 at the most?

You have to get them when you can.

By ChopChop

November 13, 2008 11:47 AM | Link to this

I could deal with the Braves signing Ben Sheets. It couldn’t be any worse than watching the AARP get injured every other week. As for Blaine Boyer, he’s any innings eater. He’s not a stopper or a holder. He’s just an innnings eater.

By jds

November 13, 2008 11:48 AM | Link to this

I hope we don’t give up Rohrbough or Locke. A year ago they were putting up similar numbers to Hanson (especially Rohrbough…if I remember he had better numbers than Tommy in ‘07).

I already don’t want to give up Escobar…our lineup is already looking depleted.

Kelly walks Adam Everett GIDP Chipper comes up with the bases empty AGAIN

and now we might throw in Rohrbough or Locke too? At least we’ll win 1-0 games once every 5 days.

By DAP

November 13, 2008 11:49 AM | Link to this

the brewers want pitching help in the form of starter and a closer.

could we put together a package for jj hardy?

is trading mike gonzalez out of the question? id say definetly, if it were me…what do you guys think?

By Patrick

November 13, 2008 11:50 AM | Link to this

! Braveheart, your 11:32 post, is, of course, classic.

You by far are the most creative poster here. Props.

By Patrick

November 13, 2008 11:50 AM | Link to this

Bubdylan, you are not alone. I’m probably Boyer’s biggest fan here.

By Lew

November 13, 2008 11:51 AM | Link to this

Denizens are thinking adding Blaine Boyer is a deal breaker? Not even Lewis Carroll could have come up with a fantasy scenario that bizarre. Where’s my VORPal Sword? Someone here needs snicker snacking.

By DAP

November 13, 2008 11:53 AM | Link to this

bubdylan dont be, bro. its all bloggage.

By Braveheart

November 13, 2008 11:53 AM | Link to this

I like Blaine Boyer. I’m alone, ain’t I?

Nah, I like him. He’s okay. However, he didn’t show himself ready to withstand a summer of abuse the way elite relievers should be able to. If he gets traded, no big deal. Middle relievers truly are a dime a dozen.

Anyone see that Damaso Marte got 3 years, $12 mil from the Yanks? What you think Ohman gets after seeing that deal?

By BB FAN

November 13, 2008 11:54 AM | Link to this

Boyer was actually pretty solid (3.93 ERA, 45 SOs in 53 Innings, 47 hits and 18 BBs) the first half of the season despite genius Bobby Cox pitching him in 51 games of the possible 92. That is why he was horrible the second half. The kid was coming back from injuries for 2 years and Cox pitched him until he couldn’t raise his arm to throw.

Think about how much better Boyer’s first half would have been if it was spread out over 162 games. Cox did the same thing with Ohman and Acosta in the first half which lead to a drop off in their stats for the second half as well.

Wren needs to let Cox know he has more than 3 guys in the bullpen. The genius forgot that a lot last year.

Don’t get me wrong, Cox has been a great manager for a long time, but he is past his prime. He has made so many bullpen mistakes over the years in the playoffs, that he is so unsure of who to use and when to use them now. Therefore he uses only 3 guys everyday. Great, if Boyer is traded, he’ll only use 2 now.

By Braveheart

November 13, 2008 11:55 AM | Link to this

I could deal with the Braves signing Ben Sheets. It couldn’t be any worse than watching the AARP get injured every other week. As for Blaine Boyer, he’s any innings eater. He’s not a stopper or a holder. He’s just an innnings eater.

Tub of goo eats alot more than just Innings

By kirknga

November 13, 2008 11:57 AM | Link to this

Braveheart

I think President-elect Obama is a knowledgeable baseball fan . I think he’s certainly capable of looking at Boyer’s entire season and concluding that just because he couldn’t pitch every darn day doesn’t mean he should be fitted for a collar and thrown a bone.

Bobby Cox rode Boyer hard and right into the ground. I bet Bud Black will not repeat that kind of treatment.

So on second thought, nevermind. Trading Boyer is the humane thing to do!

By Russell

November 13, 2008 11:58 AM | Link to this

With it appearing all but a certainty that Escobar will be in So Cal what options for short? What is Furcal’s asking price? He likes Bobby, Bobby likes him, Bravos need a lead off man. Would bring some pop and speed back to lineup. DOB what do you think?

By Patrick (from Marietta)

November 13, 2008 11:58 AM | Link to this

Just noticed there are two Patrick’s posting consistently. So, now I’ll be from Marietta, just as not to confuse people.

Anyways, God, this thing needs to get done NOW! Come on Towers, call Peavy already.

By ncscoots

November 13, 2008 12:00 PM | Link to this

In the spirit of counting to 15 on one hand, we could have Flowers catch 2 days a week; play 1st 2 days a week, left field two days a week, and 3B 2 days a week.

Does he have to have at least ONE at-bat in AA first, LOL?

Guess not. :-)

By Lee in S GA

November 13, 2008 12:04 PM | Link to this

Anyone see that Damaso Marte got 3 years, $12 mil from the Yanks? What you think Ohman gets after seeing that deal?

A new team besides Atlanta.

By Lew

November 13, 2008 12:07 PM | Link to this

BB Fan-What would Sheets numbers look like pitching in Petco? About the same. 24 starts a season. The Dude is an injury legend. One season over 24 starts in the past four years. One season with 200+IP in the past four years.

That one season was 08, where he missed almost all of September and the Playoffs because of forearm soreness (where have we heard THAT term before?). Dude misses time EVERY year. Nuff said.

By Chopper2Chipper

November 13, 2008 12:09 PM | Link to this

I think that Ohman will probably get 3 years, $9 million. I’m still amazed that they haven’t learned that the spendathon approach doesn’t work.

I think that deal is going to end up biting them.

By DAP

November 13, 2008 12:09 PM | Link to this

lew ive been waiting for someone to come galumphing along and burble a reference to lewis carroll with the VORP thing. very nice. thats one of my favorites.

By Tomas

November 13, 2008 12:11 PM | Link to this

Man please get it over already.

Kevin Towers needs to agree to this deal. If he doesn’t there is no deal.

According to Lou Pinella the cubs aren’t serious about Peavy. So the Braves are the best and only option if they want to trade him.

By Efrim

November 13, 2008 12:13 PM | Link to this

http://hotstove.mlblogs.com/archives/2008/11/bravesstillcautiously_optimi.html

Bowman thinks the Braves are cautiously optimistic.

I agree on Boyer. I doubt the Braves would be too upset if they had to include him. Rohrbough or Locke? They shouldn’t even be on the table at this point. Escobar, Hernandez, Morton and Boyer is a fair bounty for Jake Peavy. Some will probably say we are giving up too much…..I don’t. As long as Locke/Rohrbough aren’t involved.

By MattyRoss

November 13, 2008 12:13 PM | Link to this

DOB saw an amazing show last night at the Roxy out here in LA. Ezra Furman and the Harpoons opening (are you familiar? If not think Ben Kweller on mescaline as the front man for Cold War Kids…in a good way) followed by a pretty standard alt-county band called Phonograph whose lead singer was doing a decent Jeff Tweedy impersonation, and closing with Ms. Grace Potter and the Nocturnals. My first experience with that band, and she blasted thoughts of Jake Peavy right out of my head. From start to finish just a great Rock show, include Grace’s stellar cover of Paint It Black. Show went from just around 8 to well after midnight. One of the better live shows I can remember…you familiar with the other two bands? Methinks you’d be into them.

By Shaun

November 13, 2008 12:15 PM | Link to this

BB FAN, Peavy’s career ERA+ is 121. Sheets is at 116. Plus Peavy strikes out over one batter more per nine innings.

The only player that’s name has come up that I’m leery of trading is Escobar. They rest may or may not become stars, but they are less likely to become stars than Heyward, Hanson or Schafer. Plus I think those three players have a good shot to become better than Escobar.

Hey, I was one of those that was very leery of a trade for Peavy. But that was when I thought they’d have to give up Escobar or Johnson and one of the “big three” prospects.

By Hmmm

November 13, 2008 12:17 PM | Link to this

Dude misses time EVERY year. Nuff said.

Sounds like a certain third baseman.

By Lew

November 13, 2008 12:24 PM | Link to this

DAP-Must give credit where credit is due. THAT one came up in a phone conversation with our Old Buddy The Grinch in a phone conversation the other day. Calloo Callay. Wonder if the Mad Hatter has Sweet Tea Parties?

By BB FAN

November 13, 2008 12:27 PM | Link to this

kdbanks

I agree Peavy has been a true number 1 starter at PETCO Park. But on the road he is close to average. Here are his home/ road splits for his career:

At HOME:

2.77 ERA

9.52 SOs per 9 Innings

47 HRs in 678 innings

1 HR every 14.4 innings

195 BBs and 543 hits in 678 innings

1.09 WHIP

6.58 innings per start

Now on the ROAD:

3.80 ERA

8.32 strike outs per 9 Innings

81 Hr in 583 innings

1 HR every 7.1 innings

212 BBs and 546 hits in 583 innings

1.30 WHIP

6.07 innings per start

Almost every number is significantly worst on the road. You combine that with the injuries every year, and he is not a bonifide number 1 workhorse. That proves he is dominate at Petco Park…maybe even a workhorse. However, away from Petco, he is not.

I still would acquire him, but I would not include Escobar and 3 top prospects. That is too much for an injury prone pitcher who hasn’t proven himself to be great away from Petco Park. Maybe he’ll start picthing better away from PETCO…I hope so.

By Lew

November 13, 2008 12:29 PM | Link to this

Hmmmmm-Sheets hasn’t won any batting titles. Has he? Would you rather have Omar Infante playing instead of Chipper or Buddy Carlyle pitching instead of Sheets? Chipper isn’t looking for a 4 year contract at $16 mil a season, either.

By jmart1951

November 13, 2008 12:33 PM | Link to this

Patrick (from Marietta) There are some twins, high school seniors - basketball). They have initially committed to Furman but I cannot find where they signed the letter of intent yesterday. Do you know about them and did they sign yesterday. I believe that their last name is Riddick.

By JRB

November 13, 2008 12:36 PM | Link to this

Regardless of whether we keep Flowers or trade for another, it continues to amaze me why we doon’t invite McCann to play first base, which will lengthen his career immeasurably, and put someone else at catcher who can catch AND hit. I know the pitchers love McCann behind the plate, but his defensive skills continue to erode and a first base gig would let him hit 320 a year for years to come.

By BB FAN

November 13, 2008 12:37 PM | Link to this

Lew

“What would Sheets numbers look like pitching in Petco? About the same. 24 starts a season.”

That was a great line. I agree with you that Sheets has missed a lot of time, but Peavy is not exactly an iron man. He has had either shoulder or elbow injuries every year except 2007.

The only reason I mentioned Sheets was it would very likely only take 3 years and obviously no players lost.

By Shaun

November 13, 2008 12:38 PM | Link to this

BB FAN, how do you know Peavy is close to average on the road? Is a 3.80 ERA average for all the road parks Peavy has pitched in? You can’t know if that’s average without knowing what other pitchers have done in all the road parks Peavy has pitched in.

Oh, wait. ERA+ makes that adjustment for us and Peavy is at 121 for his career. His ERA is 21 percent better than league average over his career.

By TommyP

November 13, 2008 12:38 PM | Link to this

We can’t sign Sheets, y’all. Coming off of last year’s injury debacle……there’s just no way.

Peavy and sign Dempster? Trade for Dye?

Anyone want to take a stab at what Jermaine Dye would cost us????

By KC

November 13, 2008 12:42 PM | Link to this

ESPN.COM’s Bob Klapisch:

“Outlook: The Braves can at least be happy in their role as spoilers, beating the Mets four of six games in September and hastening their rivals’ doom. But Atlanta still has far to go in closing the talent gap in the East.”

“Nothing is impossible — look at the Rays’ sudden ascension to greatness — but in all likelihood, the Braves will have to wait until 2010 and beyond to be a factor again in the East.”

Mr. Klapisch is wrong. And here 3 reasons why…

1 - It appears likely that the Braves will in fact land Jake Peavy. Acquiring a true ace was by FAR the most daunting task facing Wren this winter, as legitimate aces aren’t easy to come by. Particularly 27 year-old aces with 5 years left on a below-market contract.

2 - Braves likely won’t have to plunder farm to get Peavy, leaving plenty of depth from with to trade for slugger. Of course, all we have are rumors, but the only significant minor league piece we’re hearing is Gorkys Hernandez, so plenty of depth will likely remain.

3 - Even if they add Peavy and someone like Jermaine Dye to the payroll… the Braves still have enough money to make a serious bid for another top-end starter. Starters like Lowe, Dempster, and Burnett are apparently on the shopping list, and the Braves will most certainly have a good shot at landing one of them.

In saying Bob Klapisch is wrong, I’m not predicting that the Braves are assured of being contenders this year. I’m merely saying that he’s wrong in his assertion that “in all likelihood, the Braves will have to wait until 2010 and beyond to be a factor again in the East”.

No such likelihood exists Mr. Klapisch.

The Braves have serious work to do in this off-season. No doubt about it. They need to add 3 major pieces. However, the Braves are in a good position to get those pieces this winter.

With that in mind, the Braves feel (justifiably) confident they can jump back in the thick of things in 2009.

By DAP

November 13, 2008 12:43 PM | Link to this

also, when chipper misses time, he still would play 4 times as many games than sheets even if sheets made every start.

By Mark

November 13, 2008 12:44 PM | Link to this

The one thing that I don’t get about everyone’s concerns over Peavy’s home/road splits is that Turner Field isn’t exactly a hitter-friendly park. It might not be as cavernous as Petco, but it’s not exactly the launching pad either. Even if you believe that Peavy is only an excellent pitcher when playing in a pitcher-friendly park, he’s still going to be pitching half his games at the Ted and surely will love those deep power alleys.

By RC

November 13, 2008 12:45 PM | Link to this

TommyP,

I think Dye could be had for Gorky’s straight up (not saying I’d do that, just that he’s the type of player the White Sox are looking for).

By KC

November 13, 2008 12:46 PM | Link to this

Bob Kaplisch is an idot.

I just noticed something else about his piece on the Braves…

“There’s plenty of up-and-coming talent that could be used to snare a frontline starter like Jake Peavy. But Wren has ruled out that option, leaving him with few other high-impact choices. The best assets are either too precious to move (Brian McCann) or are currently undervalued (Jeff Francoeur).”

Does he have an internet connection? Does he every talk to people in adjacent cubicles?

Why is he convinced that the Braves have ruled out parting with anything that would snare Peavy, when all indications are that they are on course to do just that?

Get a clue Bob.

By Kevin

November 13, 2008 12:49 PM | Link to this

DOB Just curious, are you into any kind of bluegrass music. I never really was before but my dad always has been so I recently gave it a try. The reason I ask is because Tony Rice has quickly become my favorite bluegrass musician and he has an older great CD called “Tony Rice sings Gordon Lightfoot” If you are even remotely into bluegrass and haven’t already heard it, it is definitely worth a listen. Tony Rice has an amazing voice and the recent mention of Gordon Lightfoot made me think of it.

By DAP

November 13, 2008 12:51 PM | Link to this

jermaine dye is partly a salary dump and they want fast athletic outfielders or middle infielders.

i bet we could get dye for josh anderson, and a pitcher like medlin who is close.

they have quentin, thome, piersinsky, alexi, they are willing to sacrifice some O for some young D. anderson has shown he is servicable in the majors, is great at stealing bases, and plays great defense.

dye will be relativly cheap.

By Efrim

November 13, 2008 12:52 PM | Link to this

Anyone want to take a stab at what Jermaine Dye would cost us????

Probably prospects. At least two. What is amazing is that people are probably okay with that.

I’m not. Braves are in a postion to spend money on free agents. They’ll make their trade for Peavy, fine. A risky move, but one I think they have to make. They still need to acquire a SS(barring that Escobar is included in that trade), right handed hitting OF and SP…. as well as a left handed relief pitcher.

That is a lot. I’m not saying they need to sign 4 free agents to fill those holes. But 3? Yea. I hope they only have to make one more trade.

By Lou Vales

November 13, 2008 12:54 PM | Link to this

Dear Dave, In my NEW non-abrasive style I wanted to ask you if you may have read anything that would cause you to change your feelings about this PARTICULAR economic tsunami’s effect on MLB?? I continue to read about the other 3 major sports leagues’ reactions to what is going on, and they ALL seem deeply concerned. The CITY(not talking about the Big 3) of Detroit is requesting a 10 Billion(was going to put an exclamation point, but why bother?) bailout in anticipation of the economoc effect. If the Big 3 does go under the impact—as estimated by EVEN government analysts—would be 1 in every 10 jobs across the country. Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Detroit ALL become non-entities. 3 franchises would have the need to start offering up 81 Dollar Season Ticket plans. And I’m not even talking about the other major cities where people who don’t get it haven’t started taking into account effect when parts makers, suppliers, advertising, marketing, materials, fabric providers and On and on all get impacted. You previously made reference to how baseball remained a bastion during the Great Depression. Read Bill James’ articles relating to attendance figures in those days, look at pictures of “crowds” in that period. Also factor in the EXTREME cuts in advertising dollars that will come as people temper buying habits. I know you have said in the past it will all be fine, I respectfully submit that I disagree. I also continue to have the feeling—that outside of the hard core fanatics who make baseball their lives—that a significant number of casual fans(the great majority) just might resent an athlete being paid 20 million a year for playing a game. They might resent it to the degree they tune it out. Maybe I’m wrong. Maybe everything turns around. I don’t know. I WAS wrong in the past for criticizing you about doing your job in covering the game. That was exceedingly wrong. And I apologize again.

By Lew

November 13, 2008 12:57 PM | Link to this

BBFan-I’ve been concerned all along with Peavy’s injury potential and agree that a huge tube of industrial strength Super Glue would be a good investment to put his arm back together again if need be. However……

The past four seasons 05-08, Peavy has made 30, 32, 34 and 27 starts. He has five years remaining on his contract averaging about $15 mil a season-cheap.

Sheets has made 22, 17, 24 and 31 starts (ending the 31 start season with the inability to pitch damn near the last month of the season OR the playoffs). He will likely cost more on average per season than Peavy with his already negotiated contract.

Now tell me-is a pitcher who misses an average of 7 starts a season (based on 30-31 starts), who makes $16 mil per year a better deal than someone who misses three starts every four years, who makes $15 mil per because he costs a couple players? Pretzel Logic, Dude (don’t you just love these obscure Music references?).

By DAP

November 13, 2008 1:00 PM | Link to this

another thing to think about with peavy and his home/road splits…could it just be that he pitches well at home? whereever home is? there is a comfort level factor.

does his k ratio plummet away from petco? it does go down. how can a pitcher friendly park make a k rate go down? the field cant be that much different the 63 or so feet between the rubber and home plate.

a pitcher friendly park can really only effect balls in play, so…his lower K rate could be due to him not being as comfy away from his home turf, and the opposing team being more comfy, since they are at home.

maybe when peavy pitches at turner field, he will pitch like the petco peavy.

By BB FAN

November 13, 2008 1:00 PM | Link to this

Shaun

That’s if you buy into the ERA + crap. All these “new improved” stats do not mean much. A few are good. WHIP comes to mind.

But anyway, the numbers tell me that Peavy is great at PETCO Park and only good away from PETCO Park. I will hope and pray he proves me wrong if the Braves acquire him. Wren is bidding against himself and has been this whole time. He needs to say no to Locke and Rohrbough if SD wants Morton.

By Bubdylan

November 13, 2008 1:00 PM | Link to this

Kevin, Tony Rice Sings Gordon Lightfoot is a favorite of mine. I know it’s blasphemy, but I think I like his version of “The Wreck… Fitzgerald” slightly better than Gordon’s. He arranges it with longer gaps between that hard-struck minor chord - you know the one? - and it really sets the tension and resolve in a more perfect place, IMO. And there is a guitar run or two on that album that comes from another planet. Amazing vocalist, too.

By nolie

November 13, 2008 1:01 PM | Link to this

Anyone see that Damaso Marte got 3 years, $12 mil from the Yanks? What you think Ohman gets after seeing that deaBraveheart

yeah I posted that yesterday. I think it means that Ohman will sign elsewhere.

By Shaun

November 13, 2008 1:01 PM | Link to this

Mark, I think the problem is some don’t understand that Peavy posting a 2.77 ERA at home and a 3.80 ERA on the road doesn’t necessarily mean he’s an ace at home and an average pitcher on the road. What if an average pitcher would have posted an ERA of 4.50 or 5.00 in the parks where Peavy pitched his road games?

By KC

November 13, 2008 1:03 PM | Link to this

DOB… come on man, what’s the inside scoop??!

By kirknga

November 13, 2008 1:03 PM | Link to this

Please let this trade be over with, one way or another.

The Braves have so much work to do in order to field a competitive team next season and that is assuming they trade for Peavy.

Another top-half starter, a big bat, a SS, and is Ohman coming back? If Ohman and Boyer leave, who picks up all of those innings in the pen?

By DAP

November 13, 2008 1:05 PM | Link to this

lew you should tell grinch to come back. we need him here. i have a feeling he lurks and posts under different names every now and then, but we need his presence, and he would be welcomed back with open arms. by me, anyways.

By David O'Brien

November 13, 2008 1:10 PM | Link to this

Why not just go after Ben Sheets and Randy Wolf. Both will very likely only get 3 year deals. Wolf, probably 3 years for ~ $30 mill and Sheets probably 3 years for ~ $40 million.BB Fan

Really, that’s your solution? Wolf, who went 12-12 with a 4.30 this season — by far his best season since 2003.

Before this year, Wolf averaged 94 innings over the previous FOUR SEASONS, with a high of 136-2/3. He made as many as 20 starts just once in that four-year span, and didn’t reach double-digit wins in any of those four seasons.

And you say Peavy’s an injury concern (which he is), yet you want to sign Ben Sheets? The guy whose 13 wins this season were a career high? The guy who gets hurt every year, and this year was injured and unavailable for the crucial stretch drive?

Sheets, who didn’t pitch as many as 160 innings in any season from 2005 through 2007.

You’d rather pay, by your estimation, $23.3 mill a year for Sheets and Wolf over the next four seasons than pay Peavy an average $15.75 mill for the next four seasons or $16.2 mill per year for the next five?

Really?

By Braveheart

November 13, 2008 1:14 PM | Link to this

Oh, wait. ERA+ makes that adjustment for us and Peavy is at 121 for his career. His ERA is 21 percent better than league average over his career.

Does it really mean he is 21% better than average? It’s a numerator/denominator game. Do you divide by the league average or is the league average divided by some other number?

He has a career ERA of 3.25. The league adjusted ERA for him is 3.92. If you divide the 3.92 by the 3.25 and * by 100, you get his 121 ERA+.

However, the difference between 3.92 and 3.25 is .67. If you divide .67 by 3.92, you get 17, which would indicate his ERA+ is truly 17% better than league average and not 21%. If you divided 3.25 by 3.92, you’d get .829, which would indicate a 3.25 ERA is 17% lower than the league adjusted average ERA of 3.92.

It looks like OPS+ is done differently from ERA+. Your OPS is divided by the league adjusted OPS whereas with ERA+, the league adjusted average ERA is divided by your ERA.

In any regard. it doesn’t even look like an OPS+ of 180 means you are 80% better than average. It looks like it may only be 40% better than average since the equation almost looks like ((100(Your OPS/lgadjavg OPS)+(100(Your OPS/lgadjavg OPS)-100). The effect is to take however much % better than average your OPS truly is and multiply that number by 2 to get your OPS+

By Bubdylan

November 13, 2008 1:14 PM | Link to this

KC That piece from Bob Chapstick is so poor. Whenever ESPN runs of series of articles that is supposed to touch base with each team in a whole sport, I look for it to be bad. It always comes off like they haven’t even talked with anybody covering a team exclusively. When you don’t really know what’s going on with a team, you can’t fake it. Or anyway Knob Crapsbrick can’t fake it.

By BB FAN

November 13, 2008 1:14 PM | Link to this

Lew

I know lately Sheets has been injured more than Peavy but Sheets also had a string of 3 years of 220 innings each from 2002-2004. I just see Peavy as being a lot like Sheets and fear that Peavy will string together 3-4 years of only 150 innings each. Then of course the home/road splits scare me almost as much as the injury history. But hey, I guess that is the risk a team needs to take. As long as Locke and Rohrbough are left out. Wren does not need to add the 4th player as he’s just bidding against himself.

I’m probably a little leary just because JS traded away a boat load of talent for Teixeira when he knew Tex would become a free agent. Then after that season, Oakland trades Danny Haren for what I thought was a lesser pkg than what went to Texas for Tex.

By David O'Brien

November 13, 2008 1:14 PM | Link to this

MattyRoss: Grace Potter is the only one of those bands I know. Got two of her CDs, and she’s very good (and I bet pretty hot in person, huh?) That first band sounds like a trip. Very cool.

Wish I was gonna be in town tomorrow to see Oberst. he was on Conan a couple nights ago. It was funny, when Conan came out to thank them after the song he was literally a foot or more taller than Conor.

By David O'Brien

November 13, 2008 1:17 PM | Link to this

By the way, I called Ohman before I left Mesa last night (he lives right there in the city, but I didn’t see him while out there). Said the Braves, to his knowledge, had not called his agent with any offer.

I get the impression that Norton’s waiting for a couple of things — to see what other offers he gets, and to see if a major league roster spot opens for the Braves so they can offer a big-league contract.

Hampton, I’m sure is going to field other offers and see what’s out there. Norton wants to be back with the Braves, though, so I’d think if they make a competitive offer they’ll eventually sign him.

By DAP

November 13, 2008 1:17 PM | Link to this

guys, i mentioned this earlier. the brewers will make trades to help with pitching. they need a closer and some starters to help out.

we need jj hardy. is it a no-no right now to trade mike gonzalez? the braves on paper have a glut of potential closers. i count three if smoltz comes back. i wouldnt like it, but what do you guys think? gonzalez for hardy?

By Kevin

November 13, 2008 1:17 PM | Link to this

Bubdylan Well I’m glad to see there are some other fans of Tony Rice here. I have that CD and a bunch of his others and it is hard to find a bad song among them. He is just awesome. And yea, I know which song you’re talking about and I know what you mean. Having listened to Tony’s version more and Lightfoot’s, sometimes Lightfoot’s is the one that sounds weird and out of place if that makes any sense.

By eddie

November 13, 2008 1:21 PM | Link to this

DOB grace potter is amazingly hot live…saw her 2 yrs ago when she opened for Gov’t MUle..omg what a voice..and the the body aint bad either

By Lou Vales

November 13, 2008 1:21 PM | Link to this

Timberrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!

Dear Lew, 15 Million a year is ONLY cheap when you have the revenues to make it look cheap. As advertising dollars shrink—You going to advertise when every internal study decribes a consumer scaleback of epic proportion??—, As corporate ownership of some teams see own revenues plunge, as attendance is impacted by use of discretionaty??? income. As I’ve said in the past, in this environment Scott Boras has EVERY right in the world to negotiate best deal for his client, BUT I do believe MLB AND his clients should request that he put a big muzzle on his external comments. Not a very good time to be saying “20 million is an insult.”

By Patrick

November 13, 2008 1:23 PM | Link to this

DOB,

That’s kinda depressing about Ohman. I liked him and hoped the Braves would bring him back but that doesn’t sound good

By brian

November 13, 2008 1:24 PM | Link to this

before someone says DOB is quiet so something must be going on or where is DOB please remember that he does have a day job that keeps him quite busy to say the least. This blog is DOB’s baby and it is obviously huge to us as well, but believe it or not he does have a job and a life outside of blogging.

Thanks DOB, enjoy your weekend, and hopefully the trade gets announced today

By brian

November 13, 2008 1:24 PM | Link to this

before someone says DOB is quiet so something must be going on or where is DOB please remember that he does have a day job that keeps him quite busy to say the least. This blog is DOB’s baby and it is obviously huge to us as well, but believe it or not he does have a job and a life outside of blogging.

Thanks DOB, enjoy your weekend, and hopefully the trade gets announced today

By BravesFan79

November 13, 2008 1:27 PM | Link to this

Thats right….. i must be a idiot for wanting a better backup/ twice a week catcher, and letting Mccan play first once a week. ………did yall not notice how worn down BMac was at the end of last year?

Yall must be the same people that kept telling me about the “Defensive specialities” of Corky Miller last season, and how a .350 spring training hitting Escobar wasnt ready for the big leagues at the start of 2007….that youd rather have the “experience” of Chris Woodcrap.
How did that “experience” work out for us when Chipper got hurt and we fell from 10 games over .500 because we had to start …Thorman, Orr, Woodcrap….. meanwhile Escobar was tearing it up in the minors.

I just dont agree with giving up a current all star caliber player that plays 150+ games a year for a more expensive all star that plays around 35.
We better hope Peavy pitches at Turner Field like he did at Petco……because loosing Escobar means loss of OBP, and clutch hits. Not to mention defense.

By Shaun

November 13, 2008 1:28 PM | Link to this

Braveheart, ERA+ and OPS+ are ERA and OPS, respectively, adjusted for league and park and normalized so that 100 is average, > 100 is above average and < 100 is below average.

Yes, an OPS+ of 180 means a hitter’s OPS adjusted for league and park is 80 percent above average.

Check out BaseballReference.com’s glossaries for the details on how ERA+ and OPS+ are calculated.

By ppaddy123

November 13, 2008 1:29 PM | Link to this

By nolie

November 13, 2008 1:01 PM | Link to this

Anyone see that Damaso Marte got 3 years, $12 mil from the Yanks? What you think Ohman gets after seeing that deaBraveheart

yeah I posted that yesterday. I think it means that Ohman will sign elsewhere.

$12 MM New York dollars will not go as far as $12MM Atlanta dollars when you figure the cost of living. I’m not saying you have to live in the nicest place in NYC, but a guy making $4 MM annually ain’t livin’ in no dump. And even though he only has to be there for 81 home games, he has to stay somewhere, right? In Atlanta, when it comes to housing, his dollar will go at least 5 times farther.

By Murphy

November 13, 2008 1:32 PM | Link to this

DAP. No, no, no on Gonzo for Hardy. I like Hardy but there are other pieces and we just got our stopper back at the end of last year. SoriARMano may or may not decides he needs another MRI and no one knows for sure if Smoltz is coming back.

By Bubdylan

November 13, 2008 1:34 PM | Link to this

Kevin Makes sense, same here. I only own 6 bluegrass albums and Tony is on four of them. The other two are John Hartford. I can’t hang much with the old, high-pitched stuff - Bill Monroe and company - but I love all I’ve heard from Rice and Hartford. (I do wish I could love Bill Monroe’s music, but I can’t. Closest I get to that sound is The Bluegrass Album Band, which catches that old sound, for me, without being so shrill.)

By favreiszeus

November 13, 2008 1:34 PM | Link to this

DOB - Great blog, as per the usual. Got a quick (longwinded) question for you….

As a baseball fan, it is disappointing to see so many “rising stars” in the game go down due to injuries (Mark Prior, et. al). Moreover, it is unsettling to think that many injuries could be avoided with some mechanical adjustments - specifically for pitchers.

As a Braves fan, it is exciting to hear about a new wave of talent with Hanson leading the pack. I worry, however, that fans are bound to be let down at some point when he is pitching in the bigs and is not mowing down a dozen batters every time out, or even worse, if some of these guys fall prey to Tommy John b/c of mechanical deficiencies.

So my question is this: you alluded to a potential downside with Hanson being that he shortarms the ball and doesn’t use his lower body very much in his delivery. Has there been any indication that the Braves mgmt. has tried or will try to tweak his mechanics a bit before turning him loose on The Show?

An extra year on the farm working on using the legs more would likely add a few years to his career, possibly keep him off the DL a time or two, and maybe even add a few ticks to the heater. Just a thought - and also a veiled recommendation to the denizens to temper the enthusiasm a tad on this kid so that Hanson actually has a semi-reasonable expectation to live up to.

By Let's get rid of the red shirts for Sunday Home Games

November 13, 2008 1:35 PM | Link to this

Back to basic uniforms only for the Braves next year, White at home and Grey on the road, only significant change will be the politically incorrect screaming indian head on the sleeve, circa 1970, which I love, and the solid navy caps on the road with red bills on the home caps. If you want a link, go buy some sausage

By BravesFanInRockies

November 13, 2008 1:43 PM | Link to this

BB FAN,

You said it yourself. Sheets pitched an average 220 innings from 2002-4 — five seasons ago.

And when his team needed him down the stretch, guess what — his arm barked again and he couldn’t pitch.

I see Sheets as a high-risk, high-reward guy for a team that has three or four slots in its rotation locked down. Not the presumed ace of any club, unless it’s prepared to lose 90-100 games over the duration of his contract.

If Peavy suffers an injury, it could be a devastating one: Tommy John. But you can rebound from that after missing 12-15 months. Over six-plus years, Sheets hasn’t fully rebounded from any of his arm woes to be considered a durable starter.

By Patrick

November 13, 2008 1:44 PM | Link to this

Here’s the latest in the saga: http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8790286/Source:-Padres-‘not-close-with-anyone’-on-Peavy

By BB FAN

November 13, 2008 1:45 PM | Link to this

David O’Brien

“You’d rather pay, by your estimation, $23.3 mill a year for Sheets and Wolf over the next four seasons than pay Peavy an average $15.75 mill for the next four seasons or $16.2 mill per year for the next five?”

I said 3 years, not 4 for Wolf and Sheets. And Sheets and Wolf may not even get that, they may need to settle for 2 and an option year.

All three pitchers we are talking about are injury prone. But the difference is Sheets and Wolf would not require giving up players, just the money. And to me, there’s more of a chance to get 325-350 innings a year out of the 2 of them for 2 or 3 years than getting 210 innings out of Peavy on average for 4 or 5 years. So that’s a cost of $50-70 million but no players lost in trade instead of $65-83.5 million and all the talent lost in trade for Peavy.

In my opinion, there is a big risk with Peavy’s domination at PETCO but dropping to being good away from PETCO. Now maybe that will change, I hope it does if the Braves acquire him. A 3.80 ERA, 6.07 innings/start, 1.30 WHIP and 1 HR/7 innings is not what I want to acquire at the price of the rumored deal and $83.5 million.

I may be mistaken but I think Peavy has $61 milion for 4 years with a $4 Million dollar 5th year buyout, right? So basically, $65 million guaranteed for 4 years or $16.25 mill a year. Then the 5th year option is for $22.5 million, right? So $83.5 Million over 5 years or 16.7 Million a year.

I don’t take it personally as I know it’s just a discussion/debate, but I can see why some people think you are attacking them at times from your responses.

Anyway, this blog is the best I’ve ever partipated in. You definitely interact more than any other writer I know…which is a good thing.

By Rev Buddy Greene

November 13, 2008 1:46 PM | Link to this

Peavy could be asked to waive no-trade clause Thursday

Getty Images The San Diego Padres are on the verge of trading All-Star right-hander Jake Peavy to the Atlanta Braves, CBS Sportsline.com reported late Wednesday night. The deal, which has been in the works for more than a month, would reportedly net the Padres shortstop Yunel Escobar, Class A outfielder Gorkys Hernandez, one of two starting pitchers — Charlie Morton or Jo-Jo Reyes — and either reliever Blaine Boyer or one of two Minor League left-handers. Peavy has a no-trade clause in his contract and could be asked to waive it on Thursday. His agent, Barry Axelrod, told the Web site that he had yet to speak to Padres general manager Kevin Towers about the pending deal. Peavy is currently in Puerto Rico and is expected to be traveling back to the United States on Thursday. Last month, the Padres gave the Braves a period of exclusivity to put the deal together. When that elapsed, the two sides continued to negotiate terms of the agreement. Peavy, 27, is from Mobile, Ala., and would be moving closer to home. He is a seven-year veteran who came up in the Padres system and was their 15th-round pick in the 1999 First-Year Player Draft.

By Erik

November 13, 2008 1:47 PM | Link to this

DOB Do the braves have enough money and/or trade pieces to fill all of our holes.

IF the Peavy deal goes through we will fill one of our two starting pitching voids at the price of 11 million and a starting SS. The braves still need a Cleanup bat preferably left field, another starting pitcher, a SS, and a Lefty reliever. On top of that the braves wish to sign Norton, Smoltz, and possibly Glavine and Hampton.

Correct me if I am wrong DOB but didnt the braves have around 40-45 Million to spend? Maybe with the insurance money they plan on getting from Hudson they have 45-50 to spend. With Peavy eating up 11 of that and the signing of some of the Smoltz, Norton, Hampton, Glavine could eat up another 5-10 million, and maybe even more. We could have anywhere from 20-30 million to fill 3 BIG holes. If we sign another front line starter it will cost us at least 14 Mill but will more than likely cost us 15-17.

that leaves us around 5-15 to spend on a LF, SS and Lefty reliever. I would take this to mean we have to find a cheap option at either SS or LF. The name Ludwick comes up again but wouldnt any deal for include KJ? DOB can we get Ludwick without KJ? If we cant It seems we would have to part with him or risk starting the season with Lilibridge at SS or having no Cleanup hitter.

DOB do you think Lilibridge can handle SS everyday?

Sorry I know there are 3 or 4 questions in there but “from the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks”

Thanks

By David O'Brien

November 13, 2008 1:49 PM | Link to this

It appears someone may have jumped the gun in reporting this story.

Barry Axelrod, the agent, just answered my e-mail question, said he still has not been contacted by Padres.

They have to call him to get this going because he has to run the trade by Peavy to get it approved, then do whatever negotiating they’re going to have to do with Braves about no-trade clause and/or option year, etc.

Braves say nothing’s changed from their end, haven’t heard anything from Padres or Axelrod. The CBS Sportsline story surprised them, too, they said.

By J.L.

November 13, 2008 1:49 PM | Link to this

Been for the Peavy trade from the start, now i’m not so sure. I’m also worried that he may be a Prima Donna !

By Patrick (Marietta)

November 13, 2008 1:51 PM | Link to this

Oh jeez. God, this is getting ridiculous. Thanks Patrick for the update (God, that sounds weird).

By McFann O –[zzz]

November 13, 2008 1:51 PM | Link to this

JRB I know the pitchers love McCann behind the plate, but his defensive skills continue to erode

Oh my gosh…

HOW many times do we have to go over this? He’s working on his VORPing defense this winter!! He’s getting in better shape! My word. How many days cann this conversation go on?

BravesFan79—

Please, dude: Two n’s in McCann.

By TheAntiMe

November 13, 2008 1:51 PM | Link to this

DannyFish and Braveheart

I knew my statement regarding Chipper on defense would make me a heretic but it just seemed to me that Chipper made a few more errors this year than he normally does. I didn’t say that he was lousy or anything. (Actually, after looking up the fielding stats on ESPN.com, Chipper wound up at 12th out of the top 20 3B in MLB in “Fielding Percentage” for 2008, which is a little lower than he was in 2007 when he did really well and was listed at 5th out of the top 20.)

My point actually was about moving Tyler Flowers to 1B to replace Casey Kotchman, where he has no previous experience. If we were talking about Ryan Howard (48 HR/146 RBI), then sure, no problem.

I could be wrong, but I just don’t think that Bobby Cox is going to hand 1B over to a rookie who has never played the position when we have a Gold Glove 1B like Casey Kotchman on the roster.

If Kotchman were to be traded, which seems unlikely since he is under contract for at least the next couple of seasons, then sure, anything is possible. Otherwise, I just don’t see it happening.

By Harry

November 13, 2008 1:53 PM | Link to this

Tony Rice is one of the best pickers in the genre. Had a great voice, too. Can’t sing anymore due to vocal cord polyps.

By DAP

November 13, 2008 1:53 PM | Link to this

this is stupid. im so tired of towers and the padres. its gone beyond biding time to get the best deal.

By Daybed Wagmoe

November 13, 2008 1:54 PM | Link to this

Before this year, Wolf averaged 94 wins over the previous FOUR SEASONS, with a high of 136-2/3.

He averaged 94 WINS over the previous four seasons??? Dang, so that’s what, just over 360 wins since the start of 2005? Well maybe we should sign this guy. I forgot about the year that he won 136-2/3 games. ;)

By richbrave

November 13, 2008 1:54 PM | Link to this

Did I see a headline in the sports section coming in that asked what the assembled thought of JETER to ATLANTA.????

O.K. here’s mine - NO.

By David O'Brien

November 13, 2008 1:54 PM | Link to this

Erik, Lillibridge didn’t show me enough offensively (.200, 1 homer, 23 K in 80 at-bats) to lead me to believe he’s a suitable replacement. Not now. Not yet. And he’s not playing winter ball, which doesn’t help his case.

By Iron Labrum

November 13, 2008 1:57 PM | Link to this

Thanks for holding out for the facts DOB. Our one true source for all things Bravos.

By Don't Trade Franceour, Sheesh

November 13, 2008 1:59 PM | Link to this

So did someone at CBSportsline just get fired…?

I’m for the Braves just telling Towers to go VORP himself and have fun letting Jake play all nine positions next year.

By Rev Buddy Greene

November 13, 2008 2:00 PM | Link to this

Thanks DOB! I just got excited about that for a sec. I figure if something happens I will see it in your blog not on yahoo rumors th0 the timing of it is interesting as I just got my renewal package from the Braves.

Also if they trade Escobar I would love to see Edgar return but at the 400 club luncheon Frank Wren told me they would not be pursuing Edgar.

Also said he wouldnt trade Hanson for Peavy in a 1-1 deal. I want to go see the kid pitch in Arizona! I am also getting G-Braves season tickets and would love for him and Gorkys play on that team next year. Tony Shivoni (sp) is going to be calling G-Braves games but il watch anyhow.

By toddh

November 13, 2008 2:00 PM | Link to this

huh! prima donna? not sure about that. i just watch him pitch his a* off each time he’s on the hill. give me a couple more jakes that compete like he does and we’ll win a championship or two.

By MattyRoss

November 13, 2008 2:00 PM | Link to this

DOB re your 1:14 - Yes she is indeed. Gorgeous. My buddies and I were reenacting that scene from High Fidelity “I wanna date a musician…I wanna live with a musician”

By Patrick (Marietta)

November 13, 2008 2:01 PM | Link to this

DOB, question:

If this isn’t done tonight, do you think the Braves formally pull out tomorrow.

By Rev Buddy Greene

November 13, 2008 2:01 PM | Link to this

Lilibridge and Josh Anderson refused to play winter ball and Frank Wren is NOT pleased AT ALL with either of them. If it comes down to either of them and someone else the someone else will make the team.

By DAP

November 13, 2008 2:02 PM | Link to this

erik dont worry about paying glavine or smoltz out of that $40mil. its been said their salaries-if they were signed- would be over and above.

if the braves can get ludwick, it would be awesome because he wouldnt cost that much.

but imagine the braves also trade for dye. his $11mil plus peavy’s $15mil average (for accounting purposes, they will probably use that) it makes $26mil. so weve still got only around $14mil to get another pitcher, a SS, norton, and hopefully, but not likely at this point, will ohman. the braves are going to have to find someone on the cheap.

they really NEED to get ludwick or a guy like that, so they can still afford to get a decent starter and a SS.

By David O'Brien

November 13, 2008 2:07 PM | Link to this

All three pitchers we are talking about are injury prone. But the difference is Sheets and Wolf would not require giving up players, just the money. And to me, there’s more of a chance to get 325-350 innings a year out of the 2 of them for 2 or 3 years than getting 210 innings out of Peavy on average for 4 or 5 years. So that’s a cost of $50-70 million but no players lost in trade instead of $65-83.5 million and all the talent lost in trade for Peavy.BB Fan

I meant to type three years; I know you said three, not four. That’s my bad. Now, to the rest of this reply:

Peavy topped 200 innings for three consecutive seasons 2005-2007, then pitched 173-2/3 innings this year.

Ben Sheets hasn’t pitched 200 innings in the past four seasons, and averaged 134-2/3 innings over three seasons from 2005-2007.

Wolf , before this season, averaged 94 innings over the previous four years, with a high of 136-2/3 innings.

Considering Sheets averaged 134-2/3 innings from 2005 through 2007, and Wolf averaged 94 innings from 2004 through 2007, why on earth would you believe there’s a better chance to get 325-350 combined innings per year out of those two (even for two seasons) than you would get 210 innings per year out of Peavy? Makes no sense.

Not to mention whatever innings you get out of Sheets and especially out of Randy Wolf are likely to be inferior — far inferior, in Wolf’s case — in quality to those you get out of Peavy, which is kind of important.

By Nocturnal Owl

November 13, 2008 2:08 PM | Link to this

So did someone at CBSportsline just get fired

I don’t know, but we had fun last night

By Erik

November 13, 2008 2:09 PM | Link to this

Thanks for the answer DOB

I agree with your assessment on Lilibridge. He didnt show much offense and just looks like a kid who is unsure of himself at the plate. The being the case I know we have talked about several options at SS in the past, but given our limited funds and multiple holes left to fill can we legitimately afford any Type A FA SS?

IF we find a cheap Power hitting LF then great we can pursue more expensive SS.

DOB If we get Peavy what then is our next priority?

IF you could rank the following needs that would be great.

2nd Starter

Cleanup Hitter (LF or CF)

SS

Lefty Reliever

thanks DOB

By Bobby's Cox

November 13, 2008 2:09 PM | Link to this

DOB & others.

You could be right in that the gun was jumped in this deal.

Yesterday driving home I heard on the 710 ESPN radio affiliate here in LA an interview with Peavy’s agent Barry Axelrod. The LA talk show hosts asked Barry about the possibility of Peavy going to the Dodgers if the Dodgers singed Manny (like most big market teams, the Dodgers think they can get anyone anyhow).

Well, Axelrod said if the Dodgers signed Manny, that would greatly improve the chances that Peavy would accept a trade to LA (nothing that we already knew).

However, I found it interesting that Axelrod said he and Peavy kind of want to hold back to weigh their options. He said in answering the question that he and Peavy wanted to wait as long as possible to see how teams take shape this offseason.

I find that interesting because whereas a teams like the Braves (and Padres) want to move quickly to get a deal done to make some other moves, I get the impression that Axelrod and Peavy think they can string this thing out and pick and choose where they want to go (in essence they could, but that would limit his chances of going to the Braves).

Definately goes against the news I heard last night that some posted from CBS.

Not sure if I’m explaining it right, but the answer Axelrod gave was definitive.

By Cliff

November 13, 2008 2:10 PM | Link to this

Guys,

Flowers played first base most of one minor league season after a knee injury. I believe it was 2007. It is absolutely NOT true that he hasn’t played 1B.

By Shaun

November 13, 2008 2:11 PM | Link to this

In my opinion, there is a big risk with Peavy’s domination at PETCO but dropping to being good away from PETCO. Now maybe that will change, I hope it does if the Braves acquire him.

BB FAN, Peavy doesn’t magically become a drastically different pitcher away from Petco. The reason his stats look different away from Petco is because Petco is a pitcher’s park. Pitchers don’t drastically become better or worse depending on the park; it’s the ballparks that change, not the pitchers.

By Bubdylan

November 13, 2008 2:11 PM | Link to this

The the source for the CBS article was anonymous, but his code name has been learned: Tevin Kowers.

By David O'Brien

November 13, 2008 2:12 PM | Link to this

Patrick, no, I don’t think the Braves formally (or informally) pull out of this tomorrow if it’s not a done deal tonight. Don’t get that impression whatsoever. But they are going to start making offers for other pitchers. I don’t think the big-name pitchers will start signing right away. I mean, not in the next few days. Probably closer to winter meetings.

By Efrim

November 13, 2008 2:12 PM | Link to this

Ken Rosenthal updates the situation:

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8790286/Source:-Padres-‘not-close-with-anyone’-on-Peavy

Apparently, the Padres aren’t close with anyone.

Is this what we are to expect every offseason from now until the end of time?

I’m sure Miller’s source was solid, but why would he report something like that when it wasn’t a lock?

By Shaun

November 13, 2008 2:14 PM | Link to this

Rev Buddy Greene, do you know it to be a fact that Wren is “not pleased at all” with Lillibridge and Anderson not playing winter ball? Maybe he isn’t pleased, but how do you know for sure? Seems like you’re doing a lot of assuming and speculation.

By BB FAN

November 13, 2008 2:16 PM | Link to this

David O’Brien

DO you happen to know the reason Lillibridge isn’t playing winter ball? Not sure if you heard of any lingering issues with his hand/wrist injury. Thanks.

By Dan

November 13, 2008 2:20 PM | Link to this

Who would you rather have between Burnett and Derek Lowe?

No question that AJ has ace stuff, but his durability is a serious question mark. I would like to see the Braves sign Lowe, who is a durable ground ball pitcher.

By Patrick (Marietta)

November 13, 2008 2:22 PM | Link to this

Thanks DOB.

In the meantime, can I get a music suggestion? I’m bored and have gone through my iTunes library. I need something good to listen to. Preferably classic rock and/or easy listening.

By NH

November 13, 2008 2:23 PM | Link to this

I have been majorly supporting the Braves getting Peavy, but DANG! How much longer can we wait. I’m to the point now that I give the Pads till Saturday at the latest, then enough. Wren needs to pull the plug and try to add a big outfield batt through trade and add Burnett/Lowe/Dempster from the free agent market. But obviously my first choice would be Peavy

By DannyFish

November 13, 2008 2:24 PM | Link to this

The AntiMe

I thought I heard somewhere that the Braves brass were really against moving Tyler Flowers away from Catcher at this point in his career. I could be wrong. And who knows if Kotchman could play 3rd anyway?

I do agree however that if he continues to rake like he is now that the Braves will have to find a way to get his bat in the line up. Or they may also have the option of getting great trade value for him. His stock is going up fast and all of the pitchers he has been working with really like him behind the plate. Either way he is proving to be an very nice surprise for Braves fans.

By DannyFish

November 13, 2008 2:24 PM | Link to this

The AntiMe

I thought I heard somewhere that the Braves brass were really against moving Tyler Flowers away from Catcher at this point in his career. I could be wrong. And who knows if Kotchman could play 3rd anyway?

I do agree however that if he continues to rake like he is now that the Braves will have to find a way to get his bat in the line up. Or they may also have the option of getting great trade value for him. His stock is going up fast and all of the pitchers he has been working with really like him behind the plate. Either way he is proving to be an very nice surprise for Braves fans.

By BravesFanInRockies

November 13, 2008 2:25 PM | Link to this

Lou Vales,

From what I’ve read, some agents (not Boras) are actually thinking about getting their clients signed early, just in case the financial meltdown worsens over the winter and big money for FA contracts just evaporates.

I’ll be shocked if at least one franchise isn’t flat rocked by the economy. Detroit seems the obvious place to have troubles. (Pittsburgh’s economy has diversified over time and it’s not as Rust Belt as it was 15-20 years ago. Besides the Pirates aren’t exactly spending money like the Steinbrenners.)

The Tigers, though, ought to be slashing payroll. The Mets and Yanks may have trouble collecting for the luxury boxes in those new ballparks.

My guess is, some GM is going to misunderestimate how the bad economy is going to affect revenues and will lose his job (along with lots of other folks with no connection to baseball will, as well).

What I will say is that if this mess isn’t straightened out by the time Jake Peavy’s option kicks in, baseball salaries will be the worst of our worries.

By BB FAN

November 13, 2008 2:25 PM | Link to this

Shaun

“Peavy doesn’t magically become a drastically different pitcher away from Petco. The reason his stats look different away from Petco is because Petco is a pitcher’s park. Pitchers don’t drastically become better or worse depending on the park; it’s the ballparks that change, not the pitchers.”

You just supported my previous comments. What I was said was: I would not want to acquire a pitcher with a 3.80 ERA, 6.07 innings/start, 1.30 WHIP and 1 HR/7 innings at the price of the rumored deal and $83.5 million. And those are his numbers away from PETCO Park.

Guess what, he will not be at PETCO if he gets traded. That is my point. I am afraid that he is a product of PETCO Park and his road numbers is what we would be acquiring. I hope I’m wrong if the trade happens.

By richbrave

November 13, 2008 2:29 PM | Link to this

THE dynamic duo didn’t play winter ball because they’re out trying to establish escape routes from ATLANTA. How’s that going guys.???? Just sayin’.

LilBRIDGE’s swoon at the plate here in RICHMOND upon his return from the BIG BRAVES was painful to watch. The complete collapse had to have been in his head unless the big club’s coaching put something in there which caused him to regress at the plate. Either way, the big step back in his development may have been fatal to his cause in ATLANTA.

I guess ANDERSON assumed he was THE future in CF after the trade which ultimately brought him to the RICHMOND club along with the demise and departure of ANDRUW. He sure started like gang-busters here. Our avowed search for a CF this off-season would be enough to end most folk’s optimism. As this move by the organization is aimed directly at JOSH, his lack of zest this fall is understandable. Maybe he read too many “trade-bait” posts on these blogs to be overly encouraged regarding his future in a BRAVES uni.

TICK,TICK,TICK. On the PEAVY front. How much longer can TOWERS sweat WREN.? DOB’s dead-line is hard upon us. We’re gonna’ have to have some clarity soon, and DAVE’s Thursday time-line seems as reasonable as any to start moving pieces on the chess-board toward a division championship without a SAN DIEGO deal.

By Efrim

November 13, 2008 2:30 PM | Link to this

Wow, the Marlins don’t waste time, do they?

Jose Ceda was the Cubs third best prospect. I have a feeling that they aren’t offering anything near comparable to what the Braves are offering for Jake Peavy.

If it’s Sean Marshall, Ronny Cedeno, and Felix Pie, than what is Towers waiting on? The Braves offer beats that by a healthy margin.

By BravesFanInRockies

November 13, 2008 2:30 PM | Link to this

DannyFish,

Kotchman throws lefty. Not likely to be moved to third, under any circumstances.

By Drew

November 13, 2008 2:33 PM | Link to this

DAVE

I have AFL envy.

Can’t wait till they bring the show to southern Florida.

Thanks for the good work my man.

Drew

By Shaun

November 13, 2008 2:39 PM | Link to this

You just supported my previous comments. What I was said was: I would not want to acquire a pitcher with a 3.80 ERA, 6.07 innings/start, 1.30 WHIP and 1 HR/7 innings at the price of the rumored deal and $83.5 million. And those are his numbers away from PETCO Park.

Right. But what if those parks away from Petco were more hitter friendly overall?

That’s where ERA+ is valuable. It tells us that Peavy’s career ERA so far is 21 percent better than the league average after taking into account all the parks he has pitched in.

By BB FAN

November 13, 2008 2:40 PM | Link to this

David O’Brien

You might be right and Sheets and Wolf may only averge 260 innings combined for 2-3 years at $50-70 million. But I think it’s a lot less risky than giving up the talent (Escobar, Gorkys, Morton and Locke or Rorhbough) and $65-83.5 million total for 4-5 years of Peavy when he is injury prone as well so he may only average 150 innings over the 4-5 years.

I also take into account that Peavy’s home / road splits really scare me. I know Turner is considered a pitcher’s park, but PETCO is so much more of a picther’s park than even Turner Field is. And Peavy has a 3.80 ERA, 6.07 innings/start, 1.30 WHIP and 1 HR/7 innings away from PETCO.

That is not what I want to acquire at the price of the rumored deal and $83.5 million. And if Peavy is this “only good” pitcher then Sheets and Wolf look even better.

I guess both would be risky. And if it’s Escobar, JoJo, Gorkys and Boyer, it’s not as bad as Escobar, Gorkys, Morton and Locke or Rorhbough. But again, those are just the rumored deals.

By Glen W

November 13, 2008 2:46 PM | Link to this

DOB: What happens to Khalil Greene, any chance he comes with Peavy? I wouldn’t want him hitting in the middle of my order like the padres had tried, but he is good defensively, should be relatively affordable… worth using as a stop gap?

By Steve C.

November 13, 2008 2:47 PM | Link to this

Not sure if this has been posted yet, a little long, but a good read…

Braves’ new world could revolve around Peavy By Jeff Passan, Yahoo! Sports Nov 12, 2:01 am EST

  For a franchise that won 14 consecutive division titles, fourth place does not suffice. So Frank Wren has a plan.

He’s going to remake the Atlanta Braves. Preferably by taking a major first step in the next few days.

“The later it goes, the more frenetic it becomes,” said Wren, who took control as Braves general manager from John Schuerholz a little more than a year ago and presided over the franchise’s worst finish since 1990. “Markets get out of control. At this point, you can go with your top choices across the board.”

Which is Wren’s way of saying it’s getting close to now-or-never time with Jake Peavy.

While San Diego weighs the best offer from the Braves, Chicago Cubs and perhaps a mystery team of which the 2007 Cy Young Award winner approves, the question begins to settle over Atlanta: Do the Braves need Peavy enough to give up that extra chip San Diego is trying to wrangle?

“We’re not going to make a deal just to make a deal and make a big splash,” Wren said. “If you surround that quality player with less talent, you’re doing yourself a disservice.”

In other words, San Diego is definitely not getting either of Atlanta’s top two prospects: starting pitcher Tommy Hanson and outfielder Jason Heyward. The Braves’ package – believed to be shortstop Yunel Escobar and some combination of center fielders Gorkys Hernandez and Jordan Schafer, burly up-and-coming catcher Tyler Flowers, and young pitchers Charlie Morton and Jo-Jo Reyes – is a good one, probably better than the Cubs’ current offer.

Which is why it appears Chicago has engaged a third team in its discussions. Creativity is paramount in acquiring a pitcher of Peavy’s caliber. The proof: One source intimated that the New York Yankees would like to get involved in the Peavy sweepstakes by centering a deal around second baseman Robinson Cano and center fielder Melky Cabrera. Peavy has made it clear he wants to remain in the National League, although a source close to the pitcher said Wednesday the Yankees are intriguing enough to consider.

The motivation is the same for every suitor. Peavy signed a club-friendly contract extension that locks him up for the next five years at $78 million (including a $22 million option for 2013). Five years for the only starting pitcher of his caliber on the free-agent market, CC Sabathia, will cost between $100 million and $125 million.

While the Yankees can afford that and the Cubs could dip into their deep pockets to subsidize Peavy and free agent Ryan Dempster, the Braves must utilize a more conservative approach. Though not verboten, free agents are “an inefficient market,” Wren said, echoing the sentiment of so many burned by bad contracts.

To avoid that by acquiring Peavy – or another young pitcher with at least three or four years of club control before free agency – is paramount for what the Braves hope to accomplish before 2009. Remember, this is a franchise that played into October year after year on the arms of Tom Glavine, Greg Maddux and John Smoltz.

“We want to get back to dominant starting pitching,” Wren said. “That’s not easy to do. Twenty-nine other teams feel the same way. Only a handful of guys fit that bill and are available.”

Already the Braves have offered a major-league deal to Junichi Tazawa, the 22-year-old wunderkind from Japan. With ace Tim Hudson out through 2009 following Tommy John surgery, the Braves’ rotation consists of Jair Jurrjens, Jorge Campillo, Reyes and Morton, who have a combined 633 2/3 innings of major-league experience – less than one-third of Hudson alone.

The fifth spot could go to Hanson, who threw a 15-strikeout no-hitter at Double-A last season and has left scouts spewing praise by striking out 30 and allowing six hits over 18 2/3 innings in the Arizona Fall League.

“I don’t want to put a timetable on it, but he’s not far away,” Wren said. “I’m not sure when that’s going to happen. I don’t want to put undue pressure on him.”

Instead, Wren is happy to swallow the pressure himself. He realizes the maneuvers of this offseason will shape a franchise that must compete against the World Series-champion Philadelphia Phillies and high-payroll New York Mets in the National League East. With some of the highest-end talent in the minor leagues – even after giving up Neftali Feliz and Elvis Andrus, among others, in the trade-deadline acquisition of Mark Teixeira last year – the Braves hope to become a smaller-scale Boston, a team that supports a few large salaries and supplements them with young, cheap talent.

So Wren juggles the names and the gravity of losing them. Escobar is a brilliant shortstop who won’t hit arbitration for two years. Kelly Johnson is a power-hitting, walk-drawing, slick-fielding second baseman. Even right fielder Jeff Francoeur, who struggled mightily last season, has drawn interest, though the Braves aren’t biting yet.

“We haven’t talked about him at all,” Wren said. “It’s not to say that we wouldn’t.”

Because Wren is considering anything and everything. The right price on Peavy. Just how much he likes Tazawa. Whether Hanson is ready. Who else can bring the most in return. Fluidity is imperative. If one move doesn’t work, it’s on to the next.

Now or never.

By brian

November 13, 2008 2:53 PM | Link to this

DOB - any other emerging young pitchers available that you know of? With Braves seeming willing to deal Escobar for the right pitcher that has to have peaked some teams interest?

By brian

November 13, 2008 2:56 PM | Link to this

as for the above post - any interest by the Tigers coming up with a deal involving as the main pieces one of their young pitchers like Verlander for Escobar? Or the Angels with Santana for Escobar as main pieces in a deal?

By Hillbilly

November 13, 2008 2:58 PM | Link to this

Efrim,

Tim Brown at Yahoo is saying the Cubs have entered Samardzdkfjdkjia’s name into the equation now.

By Original Jon

November 13, 2008 2:58 PM | Link to this

SteveC Yeah, that was posted a blog or 2 ago.

By Deep Throat

November 13, 2008 3:00 PM | Link to this

That appears to make the Cubs’ role in the San Diego Padres’ efforts to trade the 2007 NL Cy Young Award winner — and his $67million contract — more of a willing listener than a serious pursuer as Padres general manager Kevin Towers tries to drive up the price on Peavy. And that might explain why every national media report on the subject the last week appears to be based on San Diego sources.

Cubs=Useful Idiots

By Josh P.

November 13, 2008 3:02 PM | Link to this

Glen W.

I’ll answer that one for you: DOB’s said that the Braves aren’t interested in Greene, they’re not high on him at all.

By BB FAN

November 13, 2008 3:03 PM | Link to this

Shaun

Being in the West, which is where he plays most of his games due to Selig’s wonderful scheduling choice, would mean he plays most of his road games in either LA, Ari, SF or Colorado. I know Dodger Stadium and AT&T Park are Pitcher friendly and Arizona’s and Coors are hitter friendly so I would say the additional parks even themselves out pretty well and really show what he will be pitching in on average.

I believe PETCO is the only park that is as extreme one way or the ot