AJC > Sports > Braves > Blog > Archives > 2008 > November > 11 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USBraves losing patience in Peavy watch
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Mesa, Ariz. _ Many are peeved waiting for Peavy, or rather waiting for Padres GM Kevin Towers to make a decision on where to trade San Diego’s ace Jake Peavy, to the Braves or Cubs (anyone who really believes Towers might decide that no offer suits his fancy and he’ll retain Peavy, there’s a guy who’s got some oceanside property here in Mesa for you to consider buying sight unseen).
Hey, the Braves are getting antsy, too, because of the Thursday deadline when teams’ exclusive 15-day negotiating window with their own free agents expires, and other teams can start making formal financial offers to any free agents on the market. That’s when the Braves want to be ready to make their best offers to land at least one free-agent pitcher, and perhaps two if they don’t think they’re getting Peavy.
They’ve made a very strong offer, which is believed to include top young shortstop Yunel Escobar, as well as either of their prized center-field prospects, Jordan Schafer or Gorkys Hernandez, and either starter Charlie Morton or frustraing-but-talented lefty Jo-Jo Reyes. The Padres have been holding out hope of squeezing top pitching prospect Tommy Hanson from the Braves, but that’s not going to happen.
They seem resigned to that fact now, and might just be trying to squeeze one more young pitching prospect out of the Braves’ system, possibly lefty Cole Rohrbough or lefty Jeff Locke, who are both top-10 Braves prospects.
The Braves have interest in, among other free-agent starters, Derek Lowe, Ryan Dempster and A.J. Burnett, and you can assume the Braves will be ready to up the intensity level trying to land one of them if they think they’re not going to get Peavy.
But it’s still only Tuesday, denizens of the Braves/MIB blog.
So put aside the emotions for a second, and consider what a Peavy acquisition could mean for the Braves for the next four or five seasons. (Yes, I still believe Braves are going to get him, and the Cubs are more leverage than anything else. If I’m wrong, it won’t be the first time.)
People, facts are facts: Peavy is 27 and had ERAs of 2.88 or lower in four of the past five seasons, including three consecutive seasons or 200 or more innings before missing a month in 2008 with a strained elbow.
He’s already the Padres’ career strikeouts leader and he’s signed to an affordable contract worth $59 million over the next four seasons, plus a $22 million option in 2013 or $4 million buyout.
He was a unanimous choice for the 2007 Cy Young Award, when he was 19-6 with a 2.54 ERA and 240 strikeouts with 68 walks in 223-1/3 innings (folks, that’s a season like the Braves used to get from members of their Big Three back in the day).
And his MRI when he went on the DL this season was reportedly clean, just like the one he got when the Padres signed him to his long-term contract a year ago.
Forget, for a moment, the frustration that some Braves fans are feeling because of the way this has dragged on, and the reluctance many feel about parting with the undeniably talented shortstop Yunel Escobar, and consider this bottom-line fact:
Peavy’s an elite starting pitcher, one of fewer than a dozen guys with legit No. 1-caliber talent and presence. Sure, every team has a pitcher in its No. 1 position, but only about a third of MLB teams have a pitcher in that spot who is an intimidating force that can set the tone for a series by completely dominating the opposition on a regular basis, who can reach back to make a pitch for a huge strikeout when it’s absolutely needed, time and time again.
Some here have compared Peavy to Tim Hudson, or rather the Hudson who was the American League’s winningest pitcher in the five years before Huddy came to the Braves. It’s a legit comparison.
Peavy has slightly better overall numbers over a five-year span, but the huge difference: The contract.
Huddy was going to be a free agent a year after the trade, and had issued a deadline of March 1 to get an extension done or said he wouldn’t negotiate during the season. He kept that demand in place after being traded to the Braves, who signed him to a four-year, $47 mill extension at the deadline.
Peavy is signed for four more years with an option for a fifth. Signed to a deal the Braves couldn’t dream of offering to a comparable level of free-agent pitcher and even expect to be among the highest bidders.
While I agree with a few denizens who believe the Braves’ offer is clearly better than the Cubs’ offer it’s also wrong to dismiss an offer that includes left-hander Sean Marshall, who is said to be part of the Cubs’ package and is the best pitcher being offered to the Padres by anyone.
The Braves lost their ace, Hudson, when he had Tommy John surgery that will likely sideline Hudson for all but the last month of the 2009 season, and possibly the entire season. (They have a $12 mill option on his contract for 2010, when the Braves envision a potentially overwhelming rotation of Peavy, Hudson, a free agent they sign this winter, Jair Jurrjens and Tommy Hanson.
That’s a rotation with quality and depth to potentially compare with some of the dominant Braves rotations of the 1990s.
Losing Hudson made it imperative that the Braves this find a replacement No. 1 starter to replace him. Peavy happens to be a fellow Alabama native (yes, Hudson was born in Georgia, but only because there was no hospital in his Alabama hometown).
Peavy, by the way, was set to pitch for Auburn, like Hudson did, before Peavy signed with the Padres out of high school (St. Paul’s Episcopal of Mobile) in 1999.
He was a modest 10-11 in 27 starts this season, but that record is more indicative of the Padres’ anemic run support than Peavy’s performance. He had a 2.85 ERA and a solid 1.180 WHIP (walks-plus-hits per inning pitched) that was right at his career mark.
He received just under 3.7 support runs per nine innings pitched, including eight starts in which the Padres scored one or no runs while he was in.
Peavy’s got the dominant stuff and hard-nosed attitude, and by all accounts he’s a hard worker who sets a great example for teammates to follow. The whole package, according to a lot of people who should know, including Don Sutton.
Yes, that elbow is an undeniable cause for some concern. In May a sore elbow sidelined him four weeks. But when he came back, he recorded 13 quality starts in his last 18 games. If he was pitching with a damaged elbow, he pitched well.
In seven of his 13 starts after July 4, he allowed one or no runs in seven or more innings, including an Aug. 31 start against Colorado in which he threw eight scoreless innings of five-hit ball with 13 strikeouts and two walks.
He only made two starts in September, missing time to witness the birth of his third child. The Padres were so far out of contention, they were cautious bringing him back from that, especially in light of the earlier elbow issues.
Peavy also missed six weeks for a strained flexor tendon in that forearm/elbow in 2004, when he went 15-6 with a 2.27 ERA in 27 starts with 177 strikeouts in 163-1/3 innings.
In each of the next three seasons, he pitched over 200 innings with at least 215 strikeouts, including 223-1/3 innings with a league-high 240 strikeouts in 2007, when he finished 19-6 with a 2.54 ERA and won the Cy Young Award.
Out of curiosity, I went back through his day-by-days to early in the 2006 season to find a point where Peavy really struggled for any significant period. Then I checked his stats since, to compare him with some other relevent starters.
Since July 26, 2006, here are those results:
Jake Peavy has gone 36-20 with a 2.63 ERA, with a .215 opponents’ average, 490 strikeouts and 154 walks in 474-1/3 innings.
Brandon Webb is 44-22 with a 3.36 ERA, with a .239 opponents’ average, 436 strikeouts and 160 walks in 535-2/3 innings.
Johan Santana is 38-21 with a 2.82 ERA, with a .224 opponents’ average, 528 strikeouts and 134 walks in 536 innings.
CC Sabathia is 41-22 with a 2.91 ERA, with a .247 opponents’ average, 540 strikeouts and 113 walks in 585-1/3 innings.
A.J. Burnett is 36-23 with a 3.94 ERA, with a .239 opponents’ average, 472 strikeouts and 182 walks in 473 innings.
Tim Hudson is 32-21 with a 3.56 ERA, with a .257 opponents’ average, 273 strikeouts and 122 walks in 448 innings.
Derek Lowe is 35-26 with a 3.41 ERA, with a .250 opponents’ average, 343 sstrikeouts and 118 walks in 490-2/3 innings.
Ryan Dempster is 19-17 with 35 saves in 42 opportunities and a 3.59 ERA, with a .239 opponents’ average, 265 strikeouts and 121 walks in 303 innings.
Opening Sunday, again: For the second year in a row, the Braves have had their opening day game moved up a day to make it the national opening-night broadcast game on Sunday, April 5, at Philly against the World Series champs.
The game had been scheduled for Monday afternoon, April 6. The move was done without the Braves’ knowledge, since they aren’t required to approve a move of a road date within a series.
It means for the second year in a row, the Braves will scramble to move from Florida spring training to Atlanta for their final two exhibition games (against Detroit April 4-5) and then fly to Philly for the opener without a day off before the season begins.
Last year, the same scenario played out in Washington, where the Braves lost opening night, after playing two exhibition games at Atlanta the previous two days and not getting to work out on the new field at D.C.
This time it’s slightly better, in that the Braves were already scheduled to open the season with a series at Philly. Last year, the Braves were scheduled to open at home, and the Washington game was a special one-game opener created by taking a game out of a series at D.C. scheduled for later that month.
So this time around, at least the Braves won’t be playing three games in three different cities in three days, and playing opening night at D.C. one day and a home opener in Atlanta the next.
Still, it hardly seems ideal, going straight from two exhibition games in Atlanta to opening the next night on the road, without a day to work out before the season kicks off.
Then again, baseball didn’t ask the Braves about it. They told them they were dong it, after already making the schedule change. Baseball has that right.
“We were notified by MLB this week of the date and time change of Opening Day,” GM Frank Wren told me by e-mail yesterday, and I should make clear he wasn’t and didn’t complain about the move, just answered my question about it. “In the case of a road game, we would not have control over the change.”
He added, “The change will not affect our exhibition games with the Tigers.”
The rest of baseball will open the day after the Braves-Phillies opener.
The Braves, who had been scheduled to have an off day in the series at Philly on April 7, will instead play the three-game series April 5, then have a day off April 6 (other teams’ opening day), then finish the series April 7-8 (day game on 8th), then have another day off April 9.
Atlanta’s home opener is scheduled for Friday, April 10 vs. the Nationals.
Let it end, please: No, not the Peavy thing (though that, too). I’m talking about the incessant voice in my head that’s been singing Gordon Lightfoot’s “Carefree Highway” ever since I rode by the junction of Carefree Highway and I-17 Sunday on my ride up to Jerome, Ariz.
Maybe I can exorcise it by using the lyrics to another Lightfoot song that I actually loved back in my youth, when Top-40 was cool.
”SUNDOWN” by Gordon Lightfoot
I can see her lyin’ back in her satin dress
In a room where ya do what ya don’t confess
Sundown ya better take care
If I find you been creepin’ ‘round my back stairs
Sundown ya better take care
If I find you been creepin’ ‘round my back stairs
She’s been lookin’ like a queen in a sailor’s dream
And she don’t always say what she really means
Sometimes I think it’s a shame
When I get feelin’ better when I’m feelin’ no pain
Sometimes I think it’s a shame
When I get feelin’ better when I’m feelin’ no pain
I can picture every move that a man could make
Getting lost in her lovin’ is your first mistake
Sundown ya better take care
If I find you been creepin’ ‘round my back stairs
Sometimes I think it’s a sin
When I feel like I’m winnin’ when I’m losin again
I can see her lookin’ fast in her faded jeans
She’s a hard lovin’ woman, got me feelin’ mean
Sometimes I think it’s a shame
When I get feelin’ better when I’m feelin’ no pain
Sundown ya better take care
If I find you been creepin’ ‘round my back stairs
Sundown ya better take care
If I find you been creepin’ ‘round my back stairs
Sometimes I think it’s a sin
When I feel like I’m winnin’ when I’m losin’ again
Comments
By TI
November 11, 2008 12:38 PM | Link to this
GO BRAVES! 2009 DIVISION CHAMPS!
By BravesFan
November 11, 2008 12:38 PM | Link to this
DOB: Is there anyway that Khalil Greene will be involved in the deal?
By Anders
November 11, 2008 12:40 PM | Link to this
Braveheart
From the last blog:
Braveheart
Once Friday comes and goes, the Braves will no longer have the same level of labor or monetary resources available for a trade.
Why? Where is Wren going with his available money to get a Peavy deal? Peavy appears to be ,imo, the core of the Braves off season planning. Why would they move on to lesser issues before resolving this unless they can replace Peavy with another like pitcher? Those pitchers will cost a heck of a lot more as FA’s.
I agree that Towers doesn’t have eternal leverage but as long as the Cubs are in play he definetly has enough. If the Cubs sign a FA and bow out then Towers is in deep doo-doo. There’s the risk, not with the Braves.
By mitchie-san
November 11, 2008 12:40 PM | Link to this
Lets get it done!
By Shaun
November 11, 2008 12:43 PM | Link to this
The brilliance of the BBWAA: The guy who finished fourth in the 2008 NL Rookie of the Year voting was NOT a rookie.
Meanwhile, the inventor of PECOTA, a writer and consultant for Baseball Prospectus, predicted something as complicated as the presidential election results almost perfectly.
Who is smarter?
By aefwb
November 11, 2008 12:47 PM | Link to this
I have no issue trading Escobar as long as we go after Furcal. That gets your lead-off position filled back up and places a known commodity back onto the field.
By ccrider
November 11, 2008 12:47 PM | Link to this
By ccrider
November 11, 2008 12:33 PM | Link to this
GOOD NEWS! The Braves options are getting larger as we Blog! The various articles are reporting Ryan Dempster’s unhappiness in the Cubs offering a Kyle Louse type contract at $11 mil/4 years. He would basically be taking a discount from what he could get in free agency, while the Cubs pursue Peavy at $15+ per season. The Braves already have an “IN” with him from Frank Wren’s history with the Marlins. MORE GOOD NEWS; Kenshan Kawakami looks like he is about to head to MLB. He is a starter with stuff similar to Kuroda of the Dodgers. The Braves have been interested in him since he first announced he was thinking about coming to America. He would make a very good mid-rotation starter at a reasonable price $7 to $8 mil per season. EVEN MORE GOOD NEWS: The Arizona Diamondbacks are pleading poverty and asking Randy Johnson to take a huge paycut to return next season. Johnson made $15 million last season, Arizona offering $8 after a 3.91 era that was a little inflated from a early season minor injury and would probably require at least $12 to return. He is another excellent short term option for the Braves AND he would be going for his 300th victory which would help the Braves pay his salary in boosted attendence. All of these options give the Braves more opportunites to explore should the Padres drag this out much longer. Adding Randy Johnson for 1 year and Ryan Dempster plus Kawakami long term to go with Jurjjens, Hanson and Hudson could certainly, with a couple of other moves put us back into contention. PLUS THE BEST NEWS; ESCOBAR STILL AT SHORTSTOP!
By Don't Trade Franceour, Sheesh
November 11, 2008 12:48 PM | Link to this
Fix it!
By David O'Brien
November 11, 2008 12:49 PM | Link to this
BravesFan, no. Braves don’t want Greene.
By the way, I just went back into the blog above and added a note about the opening-day schedule change announced yesterday by ESPN (kind of seems wrong, for the network to be announcing a schedule change before the teams or baseball announces it. But it says plenty, too, about who’s calling the shots.)
By ClemsonFan
November 11, 2008 12:49 PM | Link to this
Why part ways with Yunel? How about Johnson or Prado? Braves need to push hard for Burnett.
By stamper
November 11, 2008 12:50 PM | Link to this
DOB - i can see it’s not only the braves who are losing patience waiting for this to happen. You look like you’re getting a little flustered as well. just an observation.
This week’s concert update: Conor Oberst on Friday at the Variety Playhouse!
By MattyRoss
November 11, 2008 12:50 PM | Link to this
I feel like that “4th piece” (maybe Locke) will clinch this thing, but hopefully including him will persuade Towers to take Jo Jo instead of Morton. If Wren can swing this deal without giving up any of the Elliot Ness Braves (untouchable, get it?? Damn it, I am hilarious.) OR Morton, I’ll be impressed. I really do think Jo Jo would benefit from a different uniform and a fresh start. Seems like a good kid who just can’t get out of his own head when he puts on the Braves uniform. Hopefully Towers agrees, because I think Morton will be an asset (either on the squad or in another trade).
Regardless, we’re all ready for some action. I was explaining some potential moves to a more casual Braves fan yesterday and it dawned on me that no matter what direction this takes, there’s a good chance that almost half of the impact players are different guys next year. That’s the age of turnaround we live in, I guess.
By jmart1951
November 11, 2008 12:50 PM | Link to this
I would love to have Peavy but if Thursday comes around and no deal I push hard for an early signing of Burnett and try to sign Hampton as well. Then trade kelly for an outfielder and reassess my position at that point.
By stamper
November 11, 2008 12:52 PM | Link to this
the Cubs are really annoying, aren’t they? I can’t wait for Friday to come so we can be a thorn in their side for a change, when we join in the Dempster sweepstakes.
By PeavytoATL
November 11, 2008 12:53 PM | Link to this
Wren needs to get it done Before FA .
By Wayne
November 11, 2008 12:54 PM | Link to this
Don’t ya just love those songs that get stuck in yer head: “sing us a song, your the piano man, sing us a song tonight.”
By Get Real
November 11, 2008 12:56 PM | Link to this
We’ll get Peavy and then he’ll go out for the season for Tommy John’s. Starting rotation: Jurrjens, Hampton, Reyes, Morton, Smoltz when he isn’t golfing. 5th place NL East 2009 baby!
By stamper
November 11, 2008 12:56 PM | Link to this
i can’t imagine why the Padres have no interest in a Chuck James, Anthony Lerew and Nick Esasky deal. That’s the kind of move I’d make if I were running the show.
By propp
November 11, 2008 12:57 PM | Link to this
Been hearing rumors here and there that he may not even want to come to Atlanta. If there is any part of a truth to this, do we really want him here, where his heart is not in it?
By Michael - Ex Sports Editor
November 11, 2008 12:57 PM | Link to this
Saw Gordon Lightfoot during his tour last year. He had a small back-up band and staged a very minimalist show - instrumentally.
The man is 70 years old and still sounds good. Great classic singer / songwriter.
By BB FAN
November 11, 2008 12:58 PM | Link to this
By RC from the other blog
“For the 2005, 2006, and 2007 seasons Peavy was 15th in MLB in innings pitched. You know who was 14th on the list? CC Sabathia. There was a 5 out difference in the number of innings they pitched over that 3 year span, so if innings are your indicator of a workhorse, you can’t include one and not include the other.”
Taking a 3 year period out of the middle of a guys career to prove he is an innings eater is weak. You can’t just pick and choose what to include for your argument.
By BravesFanInRockies
November 11, 2008 12:59 PM | Link to this
Anders,
Towers has some leverage, but you have to compare the packages each team is offering and what the Pads’ goal for the deal is (assuming there is one).
If they’re looking to plug more holes on their big league roster in 2009, the Cubs probably win. Locke’s two years or more away, Gorkys at least one.
But the Cubs are presumably offering Felix Pie, who’s out of options and Sean Marshal (isn’t he also?), so these guys better produce right away or Towers winds up with not very much for his ace.
The Braves still have the upper hand.
By David O'Brien
November 11, 2008 1:00 PM | Link to this
ClemsonFan: Prado as the centerpiece in a Peavy trade, huh? Yeah, sure. That’ll get it done. He hasn’t cracked the Braves’ lineup, but he’s good enough to be the centerpiece of a trade for the 27-year-old 2007 Cy Young Award winner.
By Kentavo
November 11, 2008 1:02 PM | Link to this
Thanks DOB for getting “Sundown” caught in my head. That’s what we call an “earworm.”
By Wayne (Clemson Alum)
November 11, 2008 1:04 PM | Link to this
Dave When does Hanson pitch next? Looking forward to your report!
I am driving through one of the most beautiful areas in the west; at the western base of the Tetons….. and it’s overcast and foggy. Bummer…
The way I see it, Towers probably knows he had until Thursday late to take the Braves deal, without the risk of losing it.
If I were Frank W, I would call him up today, and tell him if he doesn’t decide by tomorrow, the deal is off the table, as he has to start on plan B.
Wouldn’t it be interesting if FW traded KJ to STL for Ludwick and told Towers the offer just changed to Lillibridge and Prado in the place of Escobar.
Kevin: Either $hit or get off the pot!
By dufferdawg
November 11, 2008 1:05 PM | Link to this
I know a pitching ace is a “must” but a strong middle infield can’t be overlooked…Trading Escobar would be a huge mistake.. with whom would you plug that hole!
By propp
November 11, 2008 1:07 PM | Link to this
any chance at all of getting Randy Johnson for a year?
By David O'Brien
November 11, 2008 1:07 PM | Link to this
Just got an e-mail reply from Barry Axelrod, Peavy’s agent. He said he’s not aware of an increased “sense of urgency” from any team, said he thought the Padres had been focused on the Trevor Hoffman thing the past couple of days.
” I am not privy to the details of any players involved in any of the deals floating around out there,” he wrote in the e-mail. “I guess we will all know those details if and when the Padres come to us to seek approval of a pending trade.”
By FaninFaytown
November 11, 2008 1:07 PM | Link to this
BB FAN The middle of who’s career? Peavy is 27 years old. I would say the last three years is a pretty good stat to go on? Its not as if we are taking three years at random. Perhaps we should look up his high school innings pitched to get a better indication.
By Blue Magic
November 11, 2008 1:08 PM | Link to this
I don’t think the Braves should add Cole R. or Jeff L in the trade unless the Padres add one of their prospects. We could use a kid like Kelle Kulbacki in the system (left fielder with pop).
By Braveheart
November 11, 2008 1:09 PM | Link to this
The Braves should feel andy pettite out. He likely wants to go back to the Yankees but they want him to take a cut in salary. He wasn’t great last season but some of that was caused by the poor defense of the Yankees. Back in the NL and with a good defense, the Southern boy will be good and eat innings. He won’t cost as much in money or years as Burnett or Lowe. I’d give him between 2 years, $25 million to 2 years, $30 million. He might even only want a one year contract. I’d feel that dude out. It would be better than giving big bucks and a long term contract to Burnett or Lowe.
You just need a veteran free agent like Andy to be the bridge from now until Jair grows into a legit #2, until Hudson is healthy again, until Hanson is finally legit, until one of JoJo/Morton grows into something serviceable, and until some of the kids on the farm are ready to break through. Andy gives the Braves the ideal financial flexibility now and roster flexibility later. With Burnett or Lowe, we could be stuck with a bad long term contract with guys who are old, in decline, not healthy, just average, etc.
By David O'Brien
November 11, 2008 1:11 PM | Link to this
Stamper, we’re fine here, my man. But thanks for thinking of me.
If I was going to be in Atlanta Friday, I’d go to see Oberst. But I’m headed to Lawrence for the KU-Texas game, which has certainly lost a lot of luster since I booked the flight. But hey, it’ll still be great seeing my brother and his family (his son’s a 13-year-old budding-star athlete and having ACL knee surgery on Thursday, ouch), and going to the game with my buddy who lives in Kansas City.
If the trade breaks Friday or the weekend, looks like Carroll or Tom Stinson will be handling the story.
By Efrim
November 11, 2008 1:13 PM | Link to this
I have a feeling that the inclusion of Locke or Rohrbough is what the Braves are saying no too. Honestly, Yunel Escobar and two of the Braves top ten prospects plus Morton or Reyes is more than I would offer. I would replace Locke or Rohrbough with Medlen or Marek. From what I have read, Locke and Rohrbough have higher ceilings.
By Patrick
November 11, 2008 1:15 PM | Link to this
DOB, are you thinking this could be done within the next 24-48 hours?
By TI
November 11, 2008 1:16 PM | Link to this
Pettite for 2 years, 25 million?
No wonder you aren’t a GM, Braveheart.
By Salty (Clemson Alum, too)
November 11, 2008 1:16 PM | Link to this
OK Wayne….I’ll raise your Clemson Alum! LOL! Where’s Scoots!?!
By Salty (Clemson Alum, too)
November 11, 2008 1:18 PM | Link to this
D’oh! A 13 year-old tearing his ACL? That’s just way wrong…very way wrong! Tell him the blog is pulling for him!
By TennesseePaul
November 11, 2008 1:19 PM | Link to this
Payne: Who is smarter?
What the hell is this? Seriously? Do you have trading cards of Prospectus statiticians? I dare say not a single one of those guys is even in the same ball park when it comes to picking the best BBQ on a 50 mile motorcycle ride from any National League city. They’re just stupid. Plain and simple.
By BB FAN
November 11, 2008 1:21 PM | Link to this
DOB,
While I agree Peavy has been a very good pitcher so far, he is injury prone. You rattled off a lot of stats but neglected to list his home road splits that sopport the huge advantage of Petco Park.
He has a 2.77 ERA at home and 3.80 ERA on the road/9.52 strike outs per 9 Innings at home and 8.32 on the road/ 47 HRs in 678 innings at home and 81 Hr in 583 innings on the road/195 BBs and 543 hits in 678 innings at home and 212 BBs and 546 hits in 583 innings on the road/ 6.58 innings per start at home and 6.07 innings per start on the road.
Almost every number is significantly worst on the road. You combine that with the injuries every year, and he is not a bonifide number 1 workhorse. That proves he is dominate at Petco Park…maybe even a workhorse. However, away from Petco, he might be considered a solid number 2, but nothing great.
I still would acquire him, but I would not include Escobar and 3 top prospects. That is too much for an injury prone pitcher who hasn’t proven himself to be great away from Petco Park.
By Braveheart
November 11, 2008 1:22 PM | Link to this
You can’t just pick and choose what to include for your argument.
Huh? We do that all day and night here. We all take turns being the king of the cherrypickers.
By Wayne (Clemson Alum)
November 11, 2008 1:22 PM | Link to this
WW I thought there were some fairly serious concerns about Pettite’s arm.
Would Randy Johnson fit your mold?
By David O'Brien
November 11, 2008 1:25 PM | Link to this
Taking a 3 year period out of the middle of a guys career to prove he is an innings eater is weak. You can’t just pick and choose what to include for your argument.BB Fan
OK, so how ‘bout taking the first six full seasons of Sabathia’s career? Or should we focus entirely on the past two seasons?
CC pitched fewer than 200 innings in five of those six seasons, won 13 or fewer games in four of those six seasons, lost 10 or more games in four of those six seasons, and had fewer than 175 strikeouts in all six of those seasons.
Or should we focus entirely on his last two seasons, when he’s been a total workhorse ace?
But with Peavy, we should focus more on this season, when he missed a month with a sore elbow? And not on his 2007 season, when Peavy was 19-6 with 240 strikeouts in 223-1/3 innings (Sabathia had a career-best 19-7 season with 209 strikeouts in 241 innings).
Or 2002-2006, a five-year span when Peavy was far superior to Sabathia?
OK, that seems reasonable. Sabathia has been better than Peavy in just one of the six full seasons that Peavy has spent in the majors. This season.
By Kentavo
November 11, 2008 1:27 PM | Link to this
I think the Peavey deal will get done while DOB is vacating - isn’t that the way it always works?
By Thundersticks
November 11, 2008 1:27 PM | Link to this
DOB
If the Braves do get Peavy and Escobar is included, who do you believe will be the starting SS this season? Renteria? Furcal? Lillibridge? Someone else?
Thanks!!!
By BB FAN
November 11, 2008 1:28 PM | Link to this
FaninFaytown
Since 2008 is complete, that would make 2005, 2006, 2007 in the middle of 2002, 2003, 2004 and 2008. Or should we just throw out 2008?
My point is he has only had one injury free year, if that. And that’s a lot to give up (Escobar and 3 top prospects) for an injury prone picther who is not great outside of the best pitchers park, Petco.
By GM R
November 11, 2008 1:37 PM | Link to this
If they won’t take Escobar plus Morton/Reyes and one of the CF prospects it is time to move on. The deal already feels a little uncomfortable.
By 18 Wheels of Love
November 11, 2008 1:39 PM | Link to this
How cool would it be if we got Peavy and then got Dempster because he was miffed at the Cubs for not making him a priority.
By BB FAN
November 11, 2008 1:40 PM | Link to this
DOB
You are right about Sabathia. I did not realize he pitched less than 200 innings that often before the last two years until I checked after I used him as an example.
But I would not trade Escobar and 3 top prospects for Sabathia either. I really can’t say I would trade that package for any pitcher unless I had a lot more payroll to work with. If I knew I had a $120-130 million payroll, then I know I could just go out and get a Furcal to replace Escobar.
I really think Escobar has many gold glove, .300 + Avg, .390 + OBP, 20 + HR, 80 + RBI seasons ahead of him. And he has one of the top 3 shortstop arms in baseball. Not many comparable shortstops out there.
By 18 Wheels of Love
November 11, 2008 1:41 PM | Link to this
Also, I sense the new bloggage is to accomodate the windfall of posts from the Peavy deal being announced soon. Just wishcasting!
By Erik
November 11, 2008 1:41 PM | Link to this
DOB My question for you is what do you make of the differences between Peavy’s home and away splits?
The Following stats are from the 2006-2008 seasons
Home: GS : 51
IP : 341
ERA- 2.72
BAA .219
HR Allowed: 21
Away
GS: 42
IP: 258.1
ERA: 3.73
BAA: .238
HR Allowed: 32
While I certainly don’t mind a 3.73 ERA that’s not exactly the DOMINANT ACE that everyone claims Peavy is. Another thing to note are his HR allowed away. It is significantly higher and over 100 fewer innings. If Peavy pitched as many innings away from home as he did at home he would have given up twice as many homers away. I think it is completely unrealistic to expect Peavy to have a sub 3 ERA in Atlanta despite the past 5 years.
DOB Given these stats what would your expectations be of Peavy’s performance be in Atlanta? WIll he repeat his history or will his time here be similar to Tim Hudson’s?
Thanks
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 11, 2008 1:43 PM | Link to this
Thanks for the new Blog, Chief! I like the song choice! Mr. Lightfoot has a very good voice. Kentavo, you’re right, though—it does get stuck in your head easily!
BTW—The Most Popular Story is much better today!
; )
By BB FAN
November 11, 2008 1:44 PM | Link to this
I guess I realize the Braves may not have that $120-130 million payroll while a company owns them and therefore developing players is going to be a huge part of keeping them in contention.
The Braves just don’t have the money to replace a guy like Escobar. And I know Peavy is good, but his home/road splits and his injury history really concern me.
By Fred
November 11, 2008 1:46 PM | Link to this
Thanks Dave… Now I have Carefree Highway stuck in my head…
By DannyFish
November 11, 2008 1:49 PM | Link to this
Hey DOB thankks for the update!
If the Braves and Pad’s don’t get a Peavy deal done by Friday does that mean the chances of a Peavy to ATL deal drop significantly?
By Kevin
November 11, 2008 1:50 PM | Link to this
I love you guys who think the Pads should trade Peavy for a bunch of spare parts…I hope KT holds onto Peavy until the Braves include Hanson. It should take a top prospect to get a CY winner. There’s no guarantee Hanson will pan out anyhow. Besides, what is his absolute ceiling? MAYBE close to Peavy but probably quite less. If I’m KT I trade him to the Cubs unless Hanson is involved.
By David O'Brien
November 11, 2008 1:52 PM | Link to this
Thundersticks, not Lillibridge. There’s a half-dozen other possibilities, at least, through free agency or trades. I’ve repeated them on every blog in recent days, because this same question keeps getting asked.
But so you don’t have to look back at recent days’ blogs:
Free-agent possibilites Braves might consider include Furcal, Renteria, O. Cabrera, C. Izturis. Possibilities on trade market include Jack Wilson, Maicer Izturis, Julio Lugo, J.J. Hardy.
No, I don’t know who’s more likely among that bunch.
I’ll save that two-graph answer so I can use it later today when someone else asks.
By Greg in TN
November 11, 2008 1:53 PM | Link to this
Afternoon denizens, and Happy Veteran’s Day to all…
And to all of the Veterans out there, thank you for your service to our country.
It seems like Frank Wren is locked in his first staredown of his Braves GM tenure with Kevin Towers over in the lovely little abode that is San Diego. I read a link to the Union-Tribune on the last blog, and there are some quite amusing posts with one blogger there mentioning to Peavy that he got “Moored in the rear end” thinking the Pads would compete. Holy Cornelia what a gem.
Just finished reading the article on everybody’s favorite catcher by Carroll Rogers. B-Mac is certainly working to lose a little weight and wants to focus on footwork this offseason to improve his caught stealing numbers in ‘09. It’s not all B-Mac to be sure, I feel in some instances the pitchers didn’t give him much to work with, however I also feel that his offseason work will pay dividends down the road.
Meanwhile, the Peavy watch continues on Planet Braves.
By BB FAN
November 11, 2008 1:54 PM | Link to this
DOB
When comparing Peavy to Sabathia, you have to take into account that Peavy has picthed in a pitchers park (Petco) just about his whole career. Sabathia hasn’t ever pitched in a picthers park like Peavy. Sabathia’s numbers are almost identical for Home/Road splits. Both are better than Peavy’s road numbers.
But I still doubt I would trade Escobar and 3 top prospects for Sabathia with a Payroll like the Braves have.
By propp
November 11, 2008 1:56 PM | Link to this
the road/home splits are a little worriesome, even though a 3.80 ERA is still above average. but, in addtion to pitching at petco, a good portion of his starts would be at pitcher friendly dodger stadium and pacbell, wait no SBC, wait no AT&T park…where do the Giants play again this year???
By Buffalo NY Braves Fan
November 11, 2008 1:56 PM | Link to this
BB Fan,
his injury history as in…… what exactly? He was on the DL this year with a sore elbow, but the tests showed no structural damage.
Also, take into account with those “road splits” that he plays in the same division as the Rockies, that would be pre and post humidore days…. Coors has been known to inflate more than a few pitchers ERA’s.
By toby csh
November 11, 2008 1:57 PM | Link to this
Bravos sometimes the best trade is the one you do not make.
By mitchie-san
November 11, 2008 1:59 PM | Link to this
I seriously wonder if the Braves didnt give up 5 players in the Tex trade, how many people would really be worried about 4 going for Peavy. I bet it wouldnt be that big of a deal. I understand why everyone is worried, but it has to be done if we want to contend any time soon.
By SS
November 11, 2008 2:00 PM | Link to this
Who is going to play shortstop, left field, center field??
By Thundersticks
November 11, 2008 2:00 PM | Link to this
DOB
Thanks. I’ve seen those same names mentioned in various places, just didn’t know if you had heard who they like more/less. I would imagine it would be easier to sign one of the FA than to turn around and make another trade, but you never know.
Along the same lines, any idea who they like for LF?
By elliwg6
November 11, 2008 2:02 PM | Link to this
if you actually look at his home/road splits they are fine. seriously look them up. dont just assume because its petco that he’s a park generated pitcher.
By NickC
November 11, 2008 2:04 PM | Link to this
I think you can make too much of Peavy’s road splits. It’s not as if he’ll be pitching in a hitter’s park at Turner Field and it could just be that he feels more comfortable in his home park be it Petco, Wrigley or Turner Field.
By Shaun
November 11, 2008 2:06 PM | Link to this
DOB, BBFan, and others, Sabathia and Peavy are virtually identical pitchers as far as their value to a team.
Their career ERA+s are identical at 121. You could argue Sabathia is a little more valuable because he’s averaged a few more innings pitched per season. But Peavy’s a little younger. But they are pretty much indistinguishable.
By David O'Brien
November 11, 2008 2:06 PM | Link to this
By your reasoning regarding the disparity in Peavy’s home/road splits, then I guess the Braves should also rule out trying to sign Derek Lowe, A.J. Burnett or Ryan Dempster.
Career numbers:
Lowe: 76-47 with a 3.26 ERA at home, 50-60 with a 4.25 ERA on the road.
Burnett: 49-25 with a 3.45 ERA at home, 38-51 with a 4.16 ERA on the road.
Dempster: 45-30 with a 4.22 ERA at home, 31-51 with a 4.87 ERA on the road.
BB Fan, you think any teams might give those pitchers big contracts in spite of those crucial home/road splits? I’m thinking yes. I’m thinking Braves were lining up in the last week of the season talking about how much they’d like the team to sign Lowe, who was repeatedly called a workhorse by the players.
Guess they haven’t seen his home/road splits, huh?
By gotigers72
November 11, 2008 2:07 PM | Link to this
Saw this blog and the Buster Olney column on ESPN.com both regarding the Peavy trade. Both very similar. Escobar, Henandez, Morton or Jo Jo and Jeffrey Locke.
Rotation would be above average with Peavy, Jair, Hampton [fingers crossed for health ] Smoltzie maybe [fingers crossed for health again] and Hansen {Good Gawd have you seen his Arizona Fall League numbers? 18 innings, 30 strikeouts, 4 walks, 0.48 ERA, 1 ONE! Earned Run, 0.54 WHIP, .098 batting average against, just mind blowing stuff] Parr or shuffle around and look for the fifth starter. Not C.Morton or Jo Jo or any of those other ragarms with ERAs around 6 or over though please.
Bullpen doesn’t look so bad either. Soriano, Moylan and Acosta healthy. Gonzo and Ohman back. Boyer and Ridgway gone. Looks at Bennett and Stockman and the AA guy with 28 saves and more than a strikeout per inning. Sorry, can’t remember his name.
Bench. Flowers to back up McCann. Takes care of the righty/lefty thing. Leads the AFL with a 1.3 something OPS and much improved defense. Sorry Clint. Much better bat with Flowers. Infante and Prado and maybe Blanco other bench players and of course pinch hitter deluxe Norton.
Infield - 1st base - Kotchman can hold down until Freddie Freeman gets here. Wish Kotchman could supply a little more pop though. 2nd base - Looks like the light may have finally come on for KJ at the plate. Still needs work on defense and focus though. SS - Don’t know, if the Pads get Escobar. Shouldn’t be Lillibridge though. He ain’t ready and probably never will be. Hicks has a low average and strikes out a ton. May have to go free agent here. 3rd base - The [batting] Champ. Chipper is due for 135-140 games. He still has a couple of good years left in him, maybe even one MONSTER type year. Prado would be a good fill in when Chipper can’t go.
Outfield - Surely Francoeur can not be as bad as he was last year. Give him until the All Star break and if the light hasn’t come on by then….well, there are other environs and Heyward is not far away. CF Schafer unless the Pads want him instead of Gorkys. More power and closer to major league ready than Gorkys. If the Pads want Schafer, plug in Anderson until Gorkys is ready. Would love to see a foot race between Gorkys and Anderson. It would be a photo finish. LF - Hopefully Ludwick, otherwise I don’t know. Trade, free agent or Blanco/Diaz [that gives me cold chills - bad type]. Cody Johnson maybe in a couple of years. Serious, serious power, but the number of strikeouts is wayyyy scary.
That’s IMO on November 11th, 2008. Long way away until opening day, but it’s fun to guess ain’t it? Especially with the trade winds blowing at hurricane strength!
By David O'Brien
November 11, 2008 2:08 PM | Link to this
Lincecum got 23 of 32 first-place votes and beat out Brandon Webb for the Cy Young Award.
By Don!
November 11, 2008 2:11 PM | Link to this
Who is the closest to MLB-ready SS we have down on the farm? Which of our current minor-league shortstops has the highest ceiling? Are there any really good SS in the draft this year, especially where we’re picking … if we don’t lose the pick to a free agent signing?
Inquiring minds want to know!
Later,
Don!
By Thundersticks
November 11, 2008 2:11 PM | Link to this
Kevin
The Braves are hardly offering up spare parts. A MLB-ready SS, MLB-ready SP, a near MLB-ready CF, and another SP prospect is hardly chump change.
However, the Cubs are offering a MLB-ready SP (with more service time than the Braves’ SP), a AAAA CF, a utility guy, and another prospect.
The reasons the Braves are not offering Hanson are 1) they don’t want to, 2) they don’t have to, and 3) he probably views Hanson as Peavy insurance. Their offer is already the best one on the table. Unless that changes, Wren would be foolish to include Hanson.
By LivininAL
November 11, 2008 2:11 PM | Link to this
DOB - Any idea how up or down the Dodgers are on resigning Furcal? Finally saw ol Gordon Lightfoot in concert last year- Man what a song writer!- Ever hear some country stuff by Jamey Johnson?. As always we apprediate your efforts on the blog.
By Dan
November 11, 2008 2:12 PM | Link to this
DOB
Who would you rather keep, Morton or Reyes?
By Shaun
November 11, 2008 2:12 PM | Link to this
NickC and BBFan, I think we should pay attention to home/road splits. But even so, Sabathia has not been any better than Peavy so far in their careers and vice versa.
By DannyFish
November 11, 2008 2:13 PM | Link to this
What are the chances (if any) that the Braves ship Yunel in a package and are still able to upgrade at SS?
Also I’ve been wondering if Jason Heyward could be our answer as a power hitting outfielder as opposed to getting a FA. If he’s supposedly one of the “Untouchables” it would seem that he would be an option, yet I haven’t heard anyone even mention that.
By PopeVanIII
November 11, 2008 2:15 PM | Link to this
DOB
Not that it really matters because they’re both awesome, but judging by ERA+ (which is park- and league-adjusted), Sabathia was better than Peavy in both ‘03 and ‘06, too.
By NOLABrave
November 11, 2008 2:15 PM | Link to this
DOB
Thanks for the frequent updates. I know there are a lot of us checking frequently to see if Peavy’s being fitted for his tomahawk.
Not that it’s a done deal, but if the Braves do get Peavy, does that completely kill the Ludwick talks since Escobar would be included, or are there other pieces that St. Louis would be interested in? If that does take Ludwick out of the mix, what would be some other potential targets for LF? I saw that Ken Rosenthal mentioned the Marlins might shop Jeremy Hermida…the Fish obviously don’t object entirely to trading within the division after sending Olsen and Willingham to Washington…could he be a fit?
By David O'Brien
November 11, 2008 2:15 PM | Link to this
gotigers, in your projected rotation you’re leaving out the other proven pitcher the Braves fully intent to acquire, via trade or free agency, this winter.
Wren has said repeatedly that Hampton, Smoltz or Glavine won’t be that second guy, that they’re getting two regardless of what happens to those three Braves vets.
And if Smoltz is back, it’s probably in bullpen, perhaps in setup role or part-time closer. Who knows, but starting seems less likely as he tries to preserve that shoulder.
Don’t forget a name often mentioned here, Matt Cain, as another potential Braves target. At GM meetings, the S.F. folks didn’t seem to know either way if the Giants would trade him this winter. If they do, and if something happens with the Braves’ Peavy offer, the Braves could always use some of the pieces they offered S.D. to try to get Cain from S.F.
By JohnGTFan
November 11, 2008 2:16 PM | Link to this
DOB
Who will be the starting SS in 2009 for the Braves? I’M ONLY KIDDING!!!!!
I for one like the fact Atlanta is getting impatient for SD on the Peavy deal. If SD thinks ATL may pull their offer for Peavy by Friday morning, maybe they’ll stop trying to get the farm and take the best offer they can get (Atlanta’s) by Thursday evening. I’ve seen all that numbers and stats for the free agent pitchers available…but the one’s NOT called CC, which would YOU like to see most in a Braves uniform? It seems many really like Burnett; while there are many that like Lowe. DOB what is your take? Who would you like to see most in ATL? Or is it another?
By SteveInRaleigh
November 11, 2008 2:16 PM | Link to this
I’m still not sold on AJ Burnett or Ryan Dempster. Neither of them have been especially consistent over their careers. Best case scenario, they are 15 game winners. Burnett will frustrate all of us with 5-8 walk outtings… Signing Dempster as a #2 or #3 is ok, but I’d rather take another mediocre season or two to develop Reyes, Morton, and Hanson than hamstring our finances for 4-5 years on a bum like AJ Burnett or by giving Dempster $10 mill. Even Derek Lowe is really a #2 starter. He’s great in the playoffs, but struggles over the course of a season, and usually ends up around 15-11 with a 4+ ERA. The only real difference maker available, excluding CC Sabbathia, is Jake Peavy. He makes the Braves a contender. None of the other pitchers really take the Braves to the next level, especially missing Hudson for most of the year. If you want to win this year, go get Jake. If you want to win in 2-3 years, hold what you have and hope they pan out… just know that what you are holding might turn out to be Odalis Perez, Jason Marquis, David Neid, and Horacio Ramirez… and who wouldn’t trade those knuckleheads for Jake Peavy?
By N8
November 11, 2008 2:16 PM | Link to this
I just have one question, that keeps coming to my mind when dissecting who the Braves should or shouldn’t trade for, trade away, or sign as a free agent.
Who were the Rays MAJOR pitching acquisitions on the free agent market in the past 2-3 seasons?
Which top notch pitching prospects did the give up to get Kazmir?
My gut (and desire to field a more competitive team in 2009), tells me that the Braves should trade for Peavy, and sign another “gun” and make a run next year (while keeping an eye on 2010 and beyond).
Smart money says slow down and don’t give up ANY prospects that haven’t shown that they don’t have any more promise ahead of them.
Example:
Matt Garza (whom the Twins deemed expendable in a year when they traded Johan Santana), went 8-13 in 24 starts during the 06-07 seasons, with and ERA of 4.46. Only to go 11-9 with a 3.70 ERA last year.
Jamie Shields went 14-8 last year posting a 3.56 ERA, after going 18-16 with a 4.21 ERA in 52 starts during the 06-07 seasons.
Kazmir was the only one who didn’t “step it up” a notch compared to what he had done in the past. Last year he went 12-8 with a 3.49 ERA after going 35-29 with a 3.64 ERA his entire tenure in TB.
We have JJJ. We will have (barring huge setback) Hudson returning in 2010, and Hanson is on the way. Along with other prospects.
I realize that Tampa is the exception and the nifty flavor of the week with their low payroll and what not.
But as Braves fans, if we can’t see the comparison and similarities of the 08 Rays to the 91 Braves and how their YOUNG (and under control) core of players are going to grow together the way that Avery, Glavine, Smoltz, Justice and Gant did in the early 90’s, I’m not sure what will open our eyes.
JS would have NEVER have thought of trading one of the core young lineup guys (especially at a position with zero depth in the organization - now had we NOT trade Andrus in the Tex deal….), for a pitcher, even of Peavy’s ilk.
Granted, he already had 3 HOF guys in the rotation, but he did go get Maddux, when we already had Glavine, Smoltz and Avery (not to mention Leibrandt was just fine - doesn’t get credit for it due to Puckett - but he did his job for two years, very well at that).
Again. If Wren is making this move “for” Chipper and Bobby, I get it.
What to do? Decisions, decisions.
Glad I don’t have to make it. Because I’ve talked myself into 3 or 4 different opinions over the past week or so.
Today’s opinion? Walk away.
By Johnny B
November 11, 2008 2:17 PM | Link to this
WOW! Lincecum wins Cy Young…I really thought Webb was a given.
By BrandonC
November 11, 2008 2:18 PM | Link to this
Dave, where is “U Know Who” at? It would be interesting to see him get in on this converstation about Peavy. I know he said he wants Peavy here, but I think getting Chipper in on this converstation would be fun.
By David O'Brien
November 11, 2008 2:18 PM | Link to this
Bravos sometimes the best trade is the one you do not make.toby csh
And sometimes the trade you don’t make is the one that has fans howling in protest over you “standing pat” when you finish third again.
By 18 Wheels of Love
November 11, 2008 2:19 PM | Link to this
go to www.theradio.com. You can type in just about any artist and it will play a random song and then some other artists that are sort of similar. Nice site when you are stuck in a cubicle jungle.
Just pulled up some Gordon Lightfoot in honor of the new blog…
By Braveheart
November 11, 2008 2:21 PM | Link to this
if you actually look at his home/road splits they are fine. seriously look them up. dont just assume because its petco that he’s a park generated pitcher.
His HR9 rate is twice as high on the road as at home in his career. If he had the same HR9 rate at home as on the road, his home ERA would have been more in the 3.5, 3.6 range.
By brAves Sucios
November 11, 2008 2:21 PM | Link to this
Of course Braves Nation is a little gun-shy for a guy who has shown ANY signs of a bum elbow after last season, and even more so after the Hampton debacle of what’s felt like the last 10 years… but we have to get somebody and Wren and DOB are right on about Peavy looking looking like the best thing out there RIGHT NOW. If we land him we can start stressing about his elbow, if not bring on the Free Agents and the Japanese. Hell, there’s another World Baseball Classic coming up in mid-summer to let us scout the world for free, if we can get a solid rotation in place we can hardly expect another injury disaster like last year, and if we need to plug a hole or two there are ways to do it.
As far as Yunel, I say let him go if that’s what needs to happen. I like Renteria over Furcal as a bridge shortstop for health and value reasons, and because that guy was a base-hit machine. And how hilarious would it be to see the guy playing behind Jurjens and in front of Hernandez, the two guys we got for him in trade JUST LAST YEAR?
Go Braves, thanks for the regular updates, DOB.
By Shaun
November 11, 2008 2:22 PM | Link to this
Here are each pitchers numbers per 34 starts.
Peavy: 14-10, 3.25 ERA, 121 ERA+, 215.3 IP, 214 K, 69 BB.
Sabathia: 15-9, 3.66 ERA, 121 ERA+, 222 IP, 186 K, 70 BB.
Not much difference there so far in their careers. Pointless discussion.
By DonCoburleone
November 11, 2008 2:23 PM | Link to this
DOB seems there is alot of Braves fans who are not overly excited about getting Peavy, and I am one of them. While I am in total agreement that this team needs an Ace for 2009, Peavy concerns me. Like many here have pointed out, his home/road splits are pretty severe and have you seen his delivery? He is a visit to Dr. James Andrews waiting to happen.
Also, who plays shortstop for the next 5 years? I know I’m not sold on Lillibridge and I know you aren’t either. Escobar is an above average offensive shortstop with TOP 5 defensive skills to boot. Just look at the recent Fielding Bible” Awards (which I and many more people by the day consider the real gold glove award). Escobar ranked as the 3rd best defensive shortstop in all of baseball, just behind Jimmy Rollins and JJ Hardy.
By Braveheart
November 11, 2008 2:23 PM | Link to this
Also I’ve been wondering if Jason Heyward could be our answer as a power hitting outfielder as opposed to getting a FA. If he’s supposedly one of the “Untouchables” it would seem that he would be an option, yet I haven’t heard anyone even mention that.
He’s 18 years old in low A ball. Have you thought this one through?
By Josh H
November 11, 2008 2:24 PM | Link to this
Brandon C:
My completely uneducated guess is that “U Kno Who” is probably taking advantage of hunting season.
By DAP
November 11, 2008 2:25 PM | Link to this
i couild be way off, and im sure that petco has had some effect on peavy’s numbers over the years, but could it be possible that hitters simply hit better at home, and pitchers simply pitch better at home? wherever home is? could be a comfort level thing, some of it.
By tim
November 11, 2008 2:26 PM | Link to this
DOB- re getting asked the same questions all the time-perhaps a FAQ link? Save yourself some hassle. I always thought when Skip would get frustrated on the radio when someone asked him about the infield fly rule, he should have produced and played a song or a rap that explained it every time…
By BravesFanInRockies
November 11, 2008 2:26 PM | Link to this
DannyFish,
Unless the Braves can pry Hanley Ramirez away from the Fish or Jimmy Rollins from the Phils, there’s no way the Braves upgrade at SS if Yunel’s gone. (Am I missing somone?)
None of the FAs are better than Yunel. Furcal may be the closest and he’s a risk as he’s returning from back surgery.
As for Heyward — unless I’ve misread, he’s not played above A ball and is considered at least one year away from the majors.
By mitchie-san
November 11, 2008 2:26 PM | Link to this
Best case scenario, they are 15 game winners… Um, I’ll take that….
By Wayne
November 11, 2008 2:26 PM | Link to this
BTW Dave, if the Braves trade Escobar, who will they use as the SS…. just kidding.
John Donovan from SI just was on XM? He is insinuating that one reason the Braves are interested in trading Escobar is because he didn’t come back quick enough from some injuries. Also, he suggests that maybe they are sold on Lillibridge for the future.
He is also talking about Francoeur and doesn’t mention the fact he bulked up last winter as being a possible reason for his off season. I am not impressed.
Come on Charlie, get guys on there that actually know something about our Braves.
By Duke
November 11, 2008 2:27 PM | Link to this
DOB, Civil Twilight… Check’em out. They’re good.
By BosnianBaller
November 11, 2008 2:27 PM | Link to this
Let’s say the Peavy trade does not work out.Does anyone think Escobar could be angry and not play up to potential if he is still a Brave b/c the Braves wanted to trade him in the offseason.
By rammerjammer
November 11, 2008 2:27 PM | Link to this
Hampton’s gonna want to stay close to his kids after the divorce, and Arizona is cutting ties with Randy Johnson.
I see a relationship about to begin.
By DaleMurphy4HOF
November 11, 2008 2:28 PM | Link to this
DOB, let’s say the Peavy deal finally goes through for Escobar,Schaefer and Morton. Do the Braves have enough left to go after Jermaine Dye with White Sox? He would fit perfectly with what they are looking for, RH Power Outfield bat? I saw where the White Sox are taking offers.
By RC
November 11, 2008 2:28 PM | Link to this
There is no question that Peavy’s home park has had a positive effect on his stats. HOWEVER, he also has a very high K rate over his career, which isn’t not affected by park (totals of 173, 216, 215, 240, and 166 over the past 5 years). Below are Peavy’s road ERA and WHIP since 2004…definitely not as good as home, but still arguably an ace pitcher:
2004: ERA 2.33 WHIP 1.19 (lower than home) 2005: ERA 2.98 WHIP 1.12 2006: ERA 4.57 WHIP 1.35 2007: ERA 2.57 WHIP 1.05 2008: ERA 4.28 WHIP 1.45
He had rough patches on the road in 2006 and 2008, but otherwise has been stellar no matter where he was pitching.
By 1shoe
November 11, 2008 2:30 PM | Link to this
The wait is over. Peavy is a Cub. Pie, Marshall and Theirot for Jake Peavy. Man the Pads got screwed.
http://www.desipio.com/?p=1782
By Original Jon
November 11, 2008 2:31 PM | Link to this
DOB Not that it’s likely to happen, but what would the Giants ask for in a trade for Cain? To me, and this is just my honest opinion, his career numbers dont seem to scream Ace to me. So my thinking is that our trade proposal wouldnt be the magnitude as it would be for Peavy because Cain seems more like a 3 starter, maybe 2
By Notre Don't
November 11, 2008 2:32 PM | Link to this
I’ll make this short. Escobar is a total Cancer on this team. Get rid of him while you can. His attitude sucks and his talent is overrated. If the Braves got rid of Justice because of attitude … The Esco”Bar” with nuts is a gots to go situation. PLEEEEEASE!!!!
By Shaun
November 11, 2008 2:34 PM | Link to this
His HR9 rate is twice as high on the road as at home in his career. If he had the same HR9 rate at home as on the road, his home ERA would have been more in the 3.5, 3.6 range.
Braveheart, but what if that pitcher’s home park is twice as tough to hit homers in? A 3.5, 3.6 ERA in one park is not necessarily the same as a 3.5, 3.6 ERA in another park. Context matters.
Even still, Sabathia and Peavy are virtually identical as far as how good they’ve been on average. Pointless discussion.
By Original Jon
November 11, 2008 2:34 PM | Link to this
1shoe Nope, didnt happen.
By mbatl
November 11, 2008 2:34 PM | Link to this
Yes, I get all my news from desipio.com.
By NCBravesFan
November 11, 2008 2:35 PM | Link to this
Though not key to the deal, you’d have to wonder if JoJo or Charlie might be one of the players the Pads will really be excited to get - Bud Black has a great track record of developing pitchers. Could be a good situation for one of them to develop their potential (and perhaps if things go well, for the Padres to modestly plug the hole in their rotation with JP’s departure).
By Dadgum
November 11, 2008 2:38 PM | Link to this
DOB, (from last blog)certainly there are no guarantees that the Braves wouldn’t trade Escobar later if he did remain with the braves in the Peavy deal. I never said that. I stated that Peavy would want Escobar to be at SS if he accepts a trade to Atlanta. Furcal could work for Peavy. Hey Escobar could be traded and Peavy could break his arm who knows.
Furthermor, from what I am hearing, the Braves may have to add a 4th player to sweeten the pot. NO WAY you do that if Escobar is 1 of the 4 players. Talk is of Escobar, Hernandez, Morton, & Locke for Peavy. Is Wren blinking? I don’t make that move. Three players was bad enough.
On the Cubs end they are dangling Marshall, Pie and one other prospect. Talk about not serious contenders! Please, if Marshall is the centerpiece then that won’t happen. A guy that is going to play once every five days over Escobar, Morton, & Hernandez. Now you are really talking about a joke. I have no worries about the Cubs at least with what I hear they are dangling.
Again, no problems, just hashing out scenarios. One of them will happen including being part of a three team trade but one thing you can be sure of is Peavy holds all the good cards including the one he will play on the Braves by requiring that his no-trade stay intact including his option year if he accepts a trade to Atlanta.
Rock on………
By robdawg08
November 11, 2008 2:38 PM | Link to this
The bottomline is that you need 5 starting pitchers that can win about 70 games combined. Whether its one ace to win 20 and several to win 10 to 15 each or no ace and each of the five averaging 14 wins. It doesn’t really matter. I feel like Hudson,Jurrgens,and Morton could win 14 each minimum. I do not feel like Reyes and Hampton can win 14 games, more like 10 each. And there’s your 8 games back of the Mets or Phillies in the division next year too…
Peavy is a true ace but you can’t risk so much of the future on one player. What if he gets injured (he’s prone) ? Giving up Gorky’s,Morton (potential 14 game winner),and esp. Yunel Escobar (potential .300 25 100 with awesome defense) is a lot for a 20 game winner to me. The Padres fill 3 needs to our 1 need.
I think signing either Derek Lowe,Ryan Dempster,or A.J. Burnett (possibly two of these) to go with Hudson,Jurrgens, and Morton would be smarter. You need both offense and defense to win Pitching is the main defense but losing a gold glove caliber SS like Yunel hurts the defense a lot. In my mind, you are trading Escobar and Gorky’s for merely 6 more wins.
Another big bat to replace Tex who replaced Andruw is a must. It does not look like Francoeur will be that replacement to me.
What OF’s do you think the Braves have their sights set on DOB ?
By Barrett
November 11, 2008 2:39 PM | Link to this
DOB: If you haven’t seen Oberst play before, I would seriously recommend it… Simply awesome show. I saw him for the first time a couple of years ago with feist and the magic numbers. Very eccentric guy. I’m going to the show this friday for a date (that way if the date sucks atleast there will be good music). Also, the felice brothers that are opening for Mr. Oberst aren’t too shabby either.
Now onto the Peavy front. Bottom line is Peavy is a front line starter. I can’t name 10 pitchers that are better. Hell, I can’t name 5. The braves were pretty good with Walt Weiss and Jeff Blauser at short and Tremendous starting pitching. If the Braves are going to get back there, this the best way they can get started. A front line starting pitcher and some money to play with….
DOB-thanks for blog
By N8
November 11, 2008 2:40 PM | Link to this
BosnianBaller
N“Let’s say the Peavy trade does not work out.Does anyone think Escobar could be angry and not play up to potential if he is still a Brave b/c the Braves wanted to trade him in the offseason.”
Good point. Wren better re-acquire Brayan Pena, so he can calm him down when he gets fired up.
Sorry. Couldn’t resist.
By Pat
November 11, 2008 2:40 PM | Link to this
The Braves should stop farting arond and do what it takes to get Peavy.
By JimD
November 11, 2008 2:43 PM | Link to this
BosnianBaller
Let’s say the Peavy trade does not work out.Does anyone think Escobar could be angry and not play up to potential if he is still a Brave b/c the Braves wanted to trade him in the offseason.
Nah, they will just reacquire Brayan Pena and everything will be OK.
By DonCoburleone
November 11, 2008 2:43 PM | Link to this
“And sometimes the trade you don’t make is the one that has fans howling in protest over you “standing pat” when you finish third again.”
Yeah but DOB the Braves finished in a DISTANT 4th place last year. We lost 90 freaking games and finished an even 20 games out of first place (18 games out of a wild card). Do you really think adding Jake Peavy (while subtracting an excellent defensive SS with a good bat) and say, Derrek Lowe is going to make this team 18 or 19 wins better? Heck lets say we add those two pitchers plus Pat Burrell for LF, we still ain’t gonna improve by 19 games! Last time I checked we will still have Francoeur (who sucks) in RF, lord knows who in CF (who will at the very least have some growing pains next year), a rookie SS or a mid tier FA shortstop (say Orlando Cabrera), a weak hitting first baseman, an injury proned 3B, and a bullpen with 1 reliable arm (Gonzalez)…
By siskel
November 11, 2008 2:46 PM | Link to this
DOB
Have you heard Javier Vasquez name at all with the Bravos? What about Milton Bradley? Bobby seems to do okay with “troubled” players like Sheffield and this year Julian Taveras. Bradley wouldn’t cost us any prospects and I heard he wants 4 years 40 mil? That sounds reasonable for someone who if healthy can stroke 30 and 100. I have heard the Mets are in on Vasquez so trading for him might kill 2 birds with 1 stone, strengthening our pitching while keeping him away from someone in our division? Sorry for changing the subject I have just about had enough of Peavy talks with no action, in my mind I have already made a contingency plan.
By Corey
November 11, 2008 2:47 PM | Link to this
This deal will get done. Towers is just afraid he’ll screw up again, so he’s being cautious.
You know, he is the same guy who traded Grady Sizemore, Brandon Phillips, Cliff Lee & Lee Stevens to Cleveland for Bartolo Colon and Tim Drew. And, Colon left after 1 year!
And after his days in Montreal, he traded Jason Bay & Oliver Perez for Brian Giles! Poor Padres fans.
So, you can see why he is taking his time. Or, maybe he’s just still an idiot.
Even if the Braves do land Peavy, it was my understanding that they would still go after Burnett, Lowe or Dempster. Is that not the case?
If the deal does go through, Furcal and Renteria are the best free agent SS’s.
To me, the best free agent OF’s, other than Manny, are Adam Dunn and Pat Burrell. I’d be happy with Ludwick too. If Kelly goes for Ludwick, how about free agent 2B Orlando Hudson?
Just tossing some names around. I know we have a budget.
By Original Jon
November 11, 2008 2:47 PM | Link to this
robdawg08 Giving up Gorky’s,Morton (potential 14 game winner),and esp. Yunel Escobar (potential .300 25 100 with awesome defense) is a lot for a 20 game winner to me.
Wow, someone sure has a high ceiling on Morton, dont they? 14 wins for someone who has never had a record above .500 except for his last year in the minors before being called up. You are dreaming man.
By Nuke LaLoosh
November 11, 2008 2:48 PM | Link to this
Anyone feel that the Holliday for Ludwick and others fell through because the Cardinals knew something we don’t and are ready to flip Ludwick over to Braves as soon as Towers gets off the crapper in the Padres admin building and pulls the trigger? Towers is just stalling to appease the masses and make it appear that he’s exploring other avenues with Peavy. Peavy will be a Brave soon. Peavy knows it, Towers knows it, the Braves know it and the Cubs even know it… and I feel that the Cardinals sense it too and wanted to hang on to Ludwick because they value KJ or Escobar long term more than they valued Holliday for one year. Just a gut feeling, though. I got no sources to go on, admittedly. Call it a hunch.
By DannyFish
November 11, 2008 2:50 PM | Link to this
What if the teams get the Peavy swap for Yunel, Gorkys, Morton, and Locke but Peavy declines? He and his agent have said that they want to make sure ATL is competitive and losing Yunel definitely means taking a step back. Would Braves have enough pieces to still put together a deal if Yunel isn’t included?
By Braveheart
November 11, 2008 2:50 PM | Link to this
Braveheart, but what if that pitcher’s home park is twice as tough to hit homers in? A 3.5, 3.6 ERA in one park is not necessarily the same as a 3.5, 3.6 ERA in another park. Context matters.
Shaun, that was exactly my point. What’s more likely? That his home HR9 rate increases to the rate of his road HR9 rate once he leaves the San Diego air or that his home HR9 rate at the Ted will remain exactly the same as they were in San Diego? Don’t why you’re acting like you disagree when you don’t.
By BB FAN
November 11, 2008 2:51 PM | Link to this
Buffalo NY Braves Fan
The injury history is the fact that Peavy has only started more than 32 times in a season once. A number one starter that the Braves are going to give up Escobar and 3 top prospects for, should average 32 starts and 210 innings… at a minimum.
Sure Peavy has had to pitch in Coors field as well as Pitcher friendly Dodger Stadium and pitcher friendly San Francisco’s At&T park on the road. 1 to 3 starts in Coors field a year is not that significant.
Boy, am I the only one with concerns over the home/road splits on top of the injury concerns at the price of Escobar and 3 top prospects. I realize the Braves have a limited payroll and therefore have to be very careful of who they spend money on and who they trade away.
However, don’t get me wrong, I think Peavy would be a great addition, but I don’t see him as a savior. And if it costs as much as the rumored deal, we will still need to fill 3 big holes (SP, OF, and SS). And the SS position is not usually cheap especially for one at the caliber of Escobar with his defense and arm.
By mitchie-san
November 11, 2008 2:53 PM | Link to this
*Do you really think adding Jake Peavy (while subtracting an excellent defensive SS with a good bat) and say, Derrek Lowe is going to make this team 18 or 19 wins better? * In a simple answer…yes. Reson being, the both can win 15-20 games…each! That would be up to 40 games better. Is Yunel going to hit 18-19 game winning HRs?
By KneeJerk
November 11, 2008 2:54 PM | Link to this
Thought Minaya traded those guys away from Montreal.
By jimfrommedford
November 11, 2008 2:54 PM | Link to this
If we give up Escobar in any deal, who plays SS? Lillibridge did not look capable, neither is Infante who we need as a backup elsewhere. Do we bring back a slower/older Renteria?
By Original Jon
November 11, 2008 2:55 PM | Link to this
Also robdawg08 I think Burnett and Dempster are bigger health risks than Peavy is. We all know Burnett is awesome, when healthy, but besides this year, he hasnt thrown more than 165 innings in the 2 years prior due to injury, and this is Dempster’s first full year back to starting after pitching out of the pen for the last 4 years. If you go after anyone, it should be Lowe and make a strong push for Cain or heck, even Edwin Jackson or Andy Sonnanstine. But for all the talk about Peavy being injury prone, then pining for Dempster or Burnett, its contradictory.
By David O'Brien
November 11, 2008 2:55 PM | Link to this
Do you really think adding Jake Peavy (while subtracting an excellent defensive SS with a good bat) and say, Derrek Lowe is going to make this team 18 or 19 wins better? DonCoburleone
In a word: Yes.
In five words: Yes, at least that many.
By Dadgum
November 11, 2008 2:58 PM | Link to this
Don C, yep, bet the ranch that Peavy and Lowe would give the Braves 18-19 wins different. Don’t forget also about Jurrjens and Hanson. Those 4 guys in the rotation would be huge and you could make a case it would give the Braves the deepest group of starters in the Bigs.
But forget Burrell in LF. Braves have zero interest there.
Of greater need is middle infield and if we can get Furcal at SS and Prado at 2nd that would give support to those 4 aforementioned starters not to mention a 5th starter whomever that will be. Johnson is most likely traded for a LF power guy.
Rock on…..
By Wayne
November 11, 2008 2:58 PM | Link to this
Original Jon When you get a chance, go back and take a look at Peavy’s first 3 years versus Cain’s first 3 years. Very comparable.
Doesn’t mean Cain will be as good as Peavy, but he definitely has that potential (don’t ya just love that word!).
The pluses w/ Cain are that he is big, throws very hard, and is about 3 years younger than Peavy. I believe he has a contract for the next 2 or 3 years (I researched it once, but have forgotten).
So, his value in trade is that he is more affordable for the next few years, so that means you pay more generally, but then you have to factor in that he isn’t a Cy Young winner yet, which decreases his value somewhat.
I suspect a similar deal would be needed to get Cain.
DOB How would you assess Cain’s value in proportion to Peavy?
N8 I think if Frank Wren goes for it this year, he is doing in mainly for Frank Wren, not Chipper or Bobby.
My gut tells me that Matt Cain would be a better value over time than Peavy. (I didn’t do a VORP or whatever the heck that is, just a feeling. Kind like wanting Ryan Freel)
:-)
By DAP
November 11, 2008 2:58 PM | Link to this
The Don Do you really think adding Jake Peavy (while subtracting an excellent defensive SS with a good bat) and say, Derrek Lowe is going to make this team 18 or 19 wins better?
i dont, but i do think doing all that, plus having a good hitting leftfielder, soriano, gonzalez, and moylan in the ‘pen for a whole season, plus perhaps john smoltz makes us 18 to 19 games better. serously. remember, its pitching, defense, hitting, in that order, that helps baseball teams win.
By George
November 11, 2008 3:01 PM | Link to this
YEA LETS SIGN PEAVY, SO HE CAN HAVE TOMMY JOHN SURGERY JUST LIKE THE REST OF THE STAFF. ROGER MCDOWELL HAS GOT TO GO!!
By robdawg08
November 11, 2008 3:01 PM | Link to this
I can name 15 that are better than Peavy : John Lackey,C.C. Sabathia,Cole Hamels,Roy Oswalt,Roy Halladay,Johan Santana,Matt Garza,Cliff Lee,Ben Sheets,Jon Lester,Tim Lincecum,Brandon Webb,Francisco Liriano,Andy Sonnanstine,Josh Beckett.
By Braveheart
November 11, 2008 3:02 PM | Link to this
Do the Braves have enough left to go after Jermaine Dye with White Sox?
Oh, enough with Jermaine Dye. He’s a -72 defensively in rightfield over the last three seasons, the worst defensive corner outfielder in the majors over the last three seasons, even worse than Adam Dunn, Raul Ibanez, Manny Ramirez and Bobby Abreu. Just look at those names. It’s hard to believe anyone could be a worse defender in the corner outfield than those cigar store Indians. But Dye did it. Worse defensively than every single one of them. Unbelievable. He’s just as bad of a defensive corner outfielder as Burrell. Still want him even though his bat doesn’t really justify that kind of D? What his bat giveth, his legs and glove taketh away. Blah.
By Charlie
November 11, 2008 3:03 PM | Link to this
If Escobar goes to SD, who in the heck is going to play shortstop?
By mitchie-san
November 11, 2008 3:04 PM | Link to this
DonCoburleone Sorry, that was a lame attempt at humor…but they would make this team better. And if we add a big stick, it would be much better.
By john
November 11, 2008 3:09 PM | Link to this
Any word on whether Peavy to Cubs is official DOB?
By Original Jon
November 11, 2008 3:11 PM | Link to this
OMG Charlie, seriously?? That question has been asked and answered a million times on this blog. Do some research buddy before asking a question like that.
By rammerjammer
November 11, 2008 3:11 PM | Link to this
Smoltz had 5.68 ERA in AA and Chuck James absolutely dominated at all levels, so don’t read too much into minor league pitching statistics.
Charlie Morton has the stuff and the mechanics to do well in the bigs.
By DAP
November 11, 2008 3:13 PM | Link to this
Any word on whether Peavy to Cubs is official
its not. even the story that was linked said so.
By robdawg08
November 11, 2008 3:13 PM | Link to this
Anybody : Who are the Braves looking at in F/A or trade for OF ? There is a glaring bat missing behind Chipper’s. That bat used to be Tex and Andruw before him… Don’t tell me its francoeur (who isn’t capable) or McCann who is very good but not 35 hr and 110 rbi’s either.
By Tomas
November 11, 2008 3:14 PM | Link to this
DOB,
Any truth on the Felix Pie, Ryan Theriot, and Sean Marshall for Jake Peavy?
I still think the braves offer was or hopefully is better.
By atown
November 11, 2008 3:14 PM | Link to this
DOB,
You’re a man after my own heart w/ the Cash & now Lightfoot. Cash’s cover of “If You Could Read My Mind” is a beauty.
By propp
November 11, 2008 3:15 PM | Link to this
I know a lot of you here are hoping for a Furcal or Renteria reunion, but I think, if the Braves lose Escobar, their best bet is Orlando Cabrera
By robdawg08
November 11, 2008 3:15 PM | Link to this
Hilarious ! Copied from the Red Sox Yahoo board :
Dustin Pedroia Red Sox 2B easily could have rested on his brash laurels after a satisfying 2007 Rookie of the Year campaign.
The 25-year-old doesn’t ever seem to settle for anything, though, and the little second baseman picked up another shiny piece of hardware when he received an American League Gold Glove Award.
“I’ve heard this award is pretty big, but I think I still have a few more doors that need to be held open,” said Pedroia, who last spring memorably said that his Rookie of the Year award was being used a stopper for his garage door.
By Mitchell
November 11, 2008 3:17 PM | Link to this
Hey DOB,
What’d you go to Jerome, AR for?
My grandmother was born in Jerome. I went there with my dad one time when I was a kid back in the (cough).
I imagine it hasn’t changed much, nor does it ever, change, that is. I imagine…
Cool.
By Run Heap Run
November 11, 2008 3:18 PM | Link to this
yawn This is getting old. (The waiting, not the blog)
I hope we have at least one move to be excited about by the end of the week.
By BB FAN
November 11, 2008 3:18 PM | Link to this
DOB
I would not want Lowe for anything more than 2 years and 20 million because of his age and home/road splits. I see him as an innings eater in the 4th spot.
The other two you mentioned (Burnett and Dempster) have closer home/road splits than Peavy. And they would not require Escobar and 3 top prospects, just money. But even those guys I would be careful of how much I threw at them due to their own history.
I just don’t believe the Braves should make moves just because they have the money to spend. If the right guys are not available, then, they may need to wait.
It was like the trade for Tex. If JS had waited until the off season, he could have had Danny Haren for the package he sent to Texas for Tex. It was pitching he wanted, but could not find it so he “settled” on Tex. He did this despite knowing Tex was a Boras guy and just turned down ~ 8 years, ~ $150 million from Texas for an extension.
I believe there are options out there that are cheaper and/or would require less in a trade. Wren just has to be open to guys from places other than Alabama, South Carolina and Georgia. Just Kidding, I know he looks for others, but it seems he is pushing too hard for Peavy and some of it may be because he’s from the “area”. Maybe the SFs kid Matt Cain, Maybe TBs Edwin Jackson, KCs Greinke, maybe Cinn Harang or Arroyo…most of which would cost less than Peavy in terms of players. Cain would cost the same. Harang and Arroyo would not be as desirable, but would cost a lot less.
By Nocturnal Owl
November 11, 2008 3:18 PM | Link to this
Stinks that SF Giants won’t trade CY Lincecum. Would you dare to put Hanson in offers? You know what young and talented Lincecum brings.
By Joe M.
November 11, 2008 3:18 PM | Link to this
YEA LETS SIGN PEAVY, SO HE CAN HAVE TOMMY JOHN SURGERY JUST LIKE THE REST OF THE STAFF. ROGER MCDOWELL HAS GOT TO GO!!
Can you spot how many things there are wrong with this post? I got at least three: the “signing” of Jake Peavy, the capitalization and the implication that the pitching coach is responsible for pitchers’ injuries.
By oletimer
November 11, 2008 3:19 PM | Link to this
The big stick might be Escobar you are are trading away
By robdawg08
November 11, 2008 3:19 PM | Link to this
I agree about Burnett being injury prone but Dempster is pretty solid health-wise. Isn’t Ben Sheets a F/A too ?
By robdawg08
November 11, 2008 3:22 PM | Link to this
The difference in risk over trading for Peavy and instead signing Lowe & Dempster is losing Yunel,Gorky’s,and Morton with getting Peavy. I know Ben Sheets has been injury-prone too but that guy can really pitch…
By Barrett
November 11, 2008 3:22 PM | Link to this
robdawg08
I can name 15 that are better than Peavy : John Lackey,C.C. Sabathia,Cole Hamels,Roy Oswalt,Roy Halladay,Johan Santana,Matt Garza,Cliff Lee,Ben Sheets,Jon Lester,Tim Lincecum,Brandon Webb,Francisco Liriano,Andy Sonnanstine,Josh Beckett.
I respect your opinion on here but I don’t see how you can say that 15 are better than Peavy. Just go and read the stat’s that DOB wrote. It’s just under the Since July 26, 2006, here are those results part. Most people on here have given more than enough stats to show that he is one of the best in the game… but to say that Cliff Lee,Cole Hamels, Roy Oswalt,Matt Garza,Ben Sheets,Jon Lester,Francisco Liriano,Andy Sonnanstine,Josh Beckett.
C.C. Sabathia,Johan Santana,Brandon Webb,Roy Halladay,Tim Lincecum, And Beckett are in the same class. I would put Peavy just in front of Beckett in that list. I wouldn’t even consider the other ones on that same tier. Just look at the stats… WHIP, ERA, Quality starts…. it’s not just personal opinion. It’s fact. Peavy is in the top handful of best pitchers in the league. Unless I stats that say Jake Peavy and Cliff Lee are on the same level, I’m still hoping for Jake Peavy.
By ? and the Mysterians
November 11, 2008 3:24 PM | Link to this
So I suppose here is the $64,000 question. If the Braves can move Escobar for a Peavy/Cain type pitcher, would they also consider moving KJ as well for a power hitting outfielder? I know they have to plug the hole at short some way if Escobar leaves, would they let KJ go and give Prado the job at second?
By Knowlidgible
November 11, 2008 3:25 PM | Link to this
Who is Jake Peavy?
By Original Jon
November 11, 2008 3:28 PM | Link to this
George Give me a break man, McDowell is not the reason for all the injuries this past year.
By Steve from OH
November 11, 2008 3:28 PM | Link to this
I don’t include Locke (and definitely not Rohrbough) to the aforementioned package. If they want another pitcher, give ‘em Osuna or Cofield or someone like that. Don’t give them one of our highest-ceilinged prospects FW.
Yunel, JoJo, Gorkys, and Osuna/Cofield/Venters/etc. That would be my final offer.
By DefBraves
November 11, 2008 3:30 PM | Link to this
robdawg08 -
That looks like a pathetic attempt to make your post sound valid by throwing in a bunch of names that came up in your mind. Over half of those guys doesn’t even have a Cy Young award. Andy Sonnanstine better than Peavy? What have you been smoking, snorting or shooting? You should lay off that stuff!
By JR Bob Dobbs
November 11, 2008 3:31 PM | Link to this
So DOB, Thanks for keeping us updated on the Peavy sweepstakes. However…
…what do you think of the new Q-Tip album, if you’ve had a chance to listen yet?
By DAP
November 11, 2008 3:31 PM | Link to this
propp if the Braves lose Escobar, their best bet is Orlando Cabrera
what do you mean by that? does that mean that hes the guy the braves are most likely to get? or that he would be the best option? or…something else?
By Clay
November 11, 2008 3:32 PM | Link to this
How about this for the Bravos. Trade KJ, Morton, Gorky’s and Medlen for Cain. Then have more money to spend in FA. Then sign Dempster after the Pads trade Peavy to Chicago. 4yrs 14 mil and Cain would be maybe +2 from the other trade. That is +16. I then say go after Sheets for 4yr 14 mil a year. +30…Sign Hampton and Smoltz for 5 mil each. +40 Then do some trade for Spilborghs. I know he isn’t the power bat but could be decent. I know I will get bashed for this post but i would be ok with that and we could always trade for a big bat later if our offense was anemic.
Rotation Cain, Dempster, Sheets, JJ, Hampton batting orders 1)shafer/anderson 2) yunel 3)Chipper 4) BMac 5) Spilborghs 6)Kotchman 7) Francoeur 8) Prado
By robdawg08
November 11, 2008 3:33 PM | Link to this
I hate to say it but the Braves need to get Chipper and Hudson some help in the form of two 15 to 20 game potential SP’s and a big power/rbi OF bat or trade them and go with youth. Its unfair to these two future HOF players to be on the verge of being competitive with the Mets and Phillies yet ownership won’t get them three players so the Braves can compete next year, or will they ? The saga thickens and continues…
By RC
November 11, 2008 3:35 PM | Link to this
? and the Mysterians
That question is worth way more than $64,000. Why, the major league minimum salary is nearly $400,000.
In all seriousness, DOB told us a few days ago the Braves have said that they would would NOT trade both KJ and Escobar this offseason. At least one will be starting for the Braves in 2009.
By robdawg08
November 11, 2008 3:36 PM | Link to this
Do some research, Barrett. Cliff Lee and Cole Hamels are probably the best two on the whole 15 listed.
By Novice Ned
November 11, 2008 3:36 PM | Link to this
DOB and other experts… why isn’t Oliver Perez’ name being considered as a free agent pick-up? A lefty. Younger than many other FAs. Cheaper than the other big-name FAs. And he seems to have above average stuff.
Also, what does Francoeur’s strength conditioning last off-season have to do with his mental approach to his at-bats? How does having more or less muscle mass impact your choice to swing (or not swing) at pitches 18 inches out of the strike zone?
By hud20
November 11, 2008 3:37 PM | Link to this
DOB Which of the 3 most commonly mentioned Braves SP FA targets (Burnett,Dempster, Lowe)would the Braves most like to have? What would be your guess as to which one we get or do you think we get none of them?
By Nocturnal Owl
November 11, 2008 3:38 PM | Link to this
Sure its sad to see Yunel leave so soon, but not seeing Gorkys show off all the talent he has will cost us. Just crazy how much we got for Rentaria last year. Lets knock on Detroit’s doors for Maggs. We need Magglio Ordonez!!
By Deep Throat
November 11, 2008 3:39 PM | Link to this
1shoe, your “source” is just some cheap-a** blog.
By Kevin13
November 11, 2008 3:39 PM | Link to this
DOB, Just wanted to go back to your Matt Cain possibility from earlier. As a Bay Area resident everything I’ve read and heard in the local media about Matt Cain suggests the Giants are keeping him unless something MAJOR comes along. The only trade anyone has mentioned that might pry Cain away is a swap for Prince Fielder. I don’t think the Braves have that type of immediate impact bat as a bargaining chip. I have heard that their young lefty Johnathan Sanchez is available for a corner infielder. I know he’s not nearly as tantalizing as Cain but he’s got the stuff to be a legit three starter next year. Believe me, nothing would make me happier than the Braves getting Cain, he’s young with absolutely electric stuff, but it looks like they’re going to build around him and Lincecum unless someone offers them a young, cheap, 3-4 type hitter.
By robdawg08
November 11, 2008 3:40 PM | Link to this
I’ll bet you none of those teams would trade any of those 15 pitchers head up for Jake Peavy. I don’t smoke or drink alcohol, for the record.
By Braveheart
November 11, 2008 3:42 PM | Link to this
robdawg, you’re either on drugs or need to be drugged
By Steve from OH
November 11, 2008 3:48 PM | Link to this
DOB, I see Deunte Heath is pitching for Mesa…your take on him/his stuff would be greatly appreciated!
By David O'Brien
November 11, 2008 3:49 PM | Link to this
JR Bob Dobbs, I haven’t listened yet, because I bought it last night, have no CD player in my hotel room (just my Ipod), haven’t been back in my car today, and am sitting here typing a Tyler Flowers story while trying to monitor Peavy trade rumors and answer who’s going to play SS for the Braves if Yunel leaves and who’s the most likely FA pitching target and …
Nocturnal Owl, what part of the Braves aren’t trading Hanson — period — is tough to fully understand? Not. Trading. Him.
By RC
November 11, 2008 3:49 PM | Link to this
Novice Ned
The main reason I don’t think you’ve heard any mention of Oliver Perez is the fact that his agent is named Scott Boras. While Perez has great stuff, he also has almost no control of his pitches and tends to play a Jekell and Hyde act (awesome one start, terrible the next). Despite this inconsistency, Boras has written a BOOK about Perez for negotiations this offseason, with one chapter titled something like “Oliver Perez is one of the top 5 lefthanded pitchers in baseball”. If he could be signed for the amount of money his talent would justify, then I think Perez would be a great signing. However, with Boras at the helm and other teams willing to roll the dice on a long-term deal, it’s unlikely the Braves will be players.
By DefBraves
November 11, 2008 3:51 PM | Link to this
Ok Rob, I believe that you dont drink or smoke alcohol. I don’t think its even possible to smoke alcohol anyways.
While some (few!) of the names you threw out here might be arguable, but ANDY SONNANSTINE??? What the heck were you thinking?? He is NOT an ace whatsover and never will be! He’s just a solid middle of the rotation type of pitcher.
By RC
November 11, 2008 3:52 PM | Link to this
I’ll bet you none of those teams would trade any of those 15 pitchers head up for Jake Peavy. I don’t smoke or drink alcohol, for the record.
As my dad once said about an irate fan at a college football game after finding out he wasn’t drunk, “Well maybe you should start”
By robdawg08
November 11, 2008 3:53 PM | Link to this
Ok wise-guy sir Braveheart. Which of the 15 are not as good as Jake Peavy ? All the pitchers I listed have great ERA’s and most were aces for their teams (Sabathia - traded mid season and Sheets were on same team as was Lester & Beckett and Garza & Sonnanstine). Sonnanstine and Garza were pretty much unhittable at the end of the season and into the playoffs while Peavy was at home watering the flowers…
By PopeVanIII
November 11, 2008 3:54 PM | Link to this
DOB
Say the Peavy deal goes through and we lose Yunel. If the Braves were able to swing a deal for, say, JJ Hardy (young and promising on offense and defense, just like Yunel), would they consider dealing KJ at that point?
By propp
November 11, 2008 3:55 PM | Link to this
DAP- Cabrera is a FA, a possible replacement if Yunel is gone. One that no one has really been talking about. One that would be cheaper than Furcal and more productive than Renteria
By Tomas
November 11, 2008 3:56 PM | Link to this
If the Braves don’t get Jake Peavy I’d think they should go hard for Matt Cain, and an FA pitcher.
The Giants need a SS, and a 2B. So we can trade either Kelly or Yunel. But the offer needs to be good because it seems giants gm doesn’t want to trade him.
By Couch Tater
November 11, 2008 3:58 PM | Link to this
18 Wheels You may want to check-out Wolfgangsvault.com. All of the Bill Graham Archives, The King Biscuit Flower Hour concerts. Streaming while your dreaming.
DOB All research for new information on the trade always is a big circle back to this blog. Congrats.
By Befuddled Blog...
November 11, 2008 3:58 PM | Link to this
The Braves are going to trade Ryan Dempster, Q-Tip, and Renteria for Peavy…
Tyler Flowers is going to replace Escobar at short…
Having Peavy come to Atlanta would make Derek Lowe want to play LF for the Braves…
Tommy Hanson’s new album is great…
By aefwb
November 11, 2008 4:00 PM | Link to this
If we trade Escobar, maybe we can pick up Andruw to play shortstop. He always wanted to play there and he hits like Rafael Belliard now.
But, he might have to lose a little weight first.
By robdawg08
November 11, 2008 4:00 PM | Link to this
Ok. Enough on the pitchers stuff. We all can have our opinions of who better players are. I can respect that ya’ll disagree. Let’s move on. Can DOB answer our questions is the real issue ? What bat are the Braves trying to get to protect Chipper DOB ?
By Barrett
November 11, 2008 4:02 PM | Link to this
Ok I will give you Hamels… Even though the stat’s between Peavy and Hamels are very similar. Hamels is younger and cost less for the the being…
Cliff Lee? He almost didn’t even have a spot in the indians rotation before this season because he had fallen off so much. He was even sent to the minors in 2007. So sounds like to me you need to do some research. Off the all the pitchers in Peavy’s class, (C.C. Sabathia,Johan Santana,Brandon Webb,Roy Halladay,Tim Lincecum, Cole Hamels, Josh Beckett) which do you think are available? CC for 25 million a year? Do you think the others are for trade… where would you go to get a true #1?
Andy Sonnanstine? Really? Mr.5.85 ERA, 1.35 WHIP in 2007 Andy Sonnanstine wouldn’t be traded straight up for Jake Peavy? ok….
By KneeJerk
November 11, 2008 4:03 PM | Link to this
robdog- you are alone on that opinion. Cliff Lee was masterful for how many years? Hamels is still young and, although promising is not as proven as Peavy.
By TheCutMan
November 11, 2008 4:07 PM | Link to this
Since venturing on this board back in 2006, I’ve come to grudingly recognize that O’Brien is a quality journalist with excellent sources so it’s my way of offering a mea culpa of sorts.
That said, I don’t believe that having Lillibridge at SS for a PERHAPS departed Escobar is the end of the free world as we know it. It might well speak to the lack of quality from the hitting coach as to the potential of Lilli who has demonstrated excellence in the field already.
Think about this: The Braves finished 20 games under .500 WITH Escobar in 2008. How worse would it be with a guy like Lilli playing and not looking over his shoulder for a replacement?
By David O'Brien
November 11, 2008 4:08 PM | Link to this
Befuddled Blog: Now THAT was funny. That made me smile.
By zach
November 11, 2008 4:09 PM | Link to this
Get Jake Peavy NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
By N8
November 11, 2008 4:12 PM | Link to this
DOB
“…and am sitting here typing a Tyler Flowers story while trying to monitor Peavy trade rumors and answer who’s going to play SS for the Braves if Yunel leaves and who’s the most likely FA pitching target and …”
Well that remark seems a tad “snarky”, doesn’t it? LOL!
We could always talk about Whitesnake, right?
DOB, I know that you read the SI cover story on Lincecum last summer, what are the “odds” we could get his dad to work with our minor league pitchers?
You know, because McDowell is causing all of our guys to have TJ surgery, (said with eyes rolling).
That being said, I could be “game” for Mr. Lincecum (forgot his name) and either Chipper or McCann’s dad being a hitting instructor in the system.
Obviously, I’m not being serious. But after reading that Lincecum article last year, and seeing how many people tried to get him to change his delivery along the way, today has to be a pretty proud day for Tim’s dad. Even more so than it would be for any dad who’s kid wins the Cy Young award. Pretty gratifying I’m guessing.
By Lew
November 11, 2008 4:15 PM | Link to this
What a drag-Just found out our most local Indie Record Store is going the way of the dinosaur and the 8 track. Guess I’ll have to head over there this weekend and avail myself of whatever deals they might have. Unfortunately, it’s a sign of the times.
By spotts
November 11, 2008 4:16 PM | Link to this
Dave - have you seen the This Year in Baseball Awards on mlb.com? You can vote as many times as you want! That doesn’t determine who the fans think deserve to win. It determines which player has the nerdiest fans (although I cast about 30 votes for Chipper…)
By brian
November 11, 2008 4:16 PM | Link to this
Matt Cain would be a very good target for the Braves if Peavy falls through. People here will point to his won/loss record but he has been the worst victim of poor run support I have seen. I would imagine he as well would cost us Escobar but much less in other prospects than Peavy. San Fran may also go for Kelly as well with more prospects.
What is Cain’s contract situation?
By Kentavo
November 11, 2008 4:17 PM | Link to this
When did Tommy Hanson leave “21 Jump Street??
By aefwb
November 11, 2008 4:18 PM | Link to this
DOB:
Might the Braves turn to the Rays for Edwin Jackson if Peavy doesn’t work out? He might come cheaper. Maybe Yunel and Reyes for Jackson and Bartlett. Bartlett would fill the shortstop void.
By DAP
November 11, 2008 4:18 PM | Link to this
propp cabrera would be cheaper than furcal, yes, but more productive than renteria? im not sure. i think the worst renteria would do would be to produce about as much a cabrera always does. even considering edgar’s bad year this year, he is a better offensive player than cabrera. defensivly, cabrera is better, but im not sure hes that much better.
id go with edgar over cabrera.
by the way, did you know edgar and orlando hate each other? just a side note. an interesting story between the two columbian natives.
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 11, 2008 4:20 PM | Link to this
robdawg or McCann who is very good but not 35 hr and 110 rbi’s either.
Maybe not 35 homers, but he could get 110 RBI. I mean, he had over 400 guys on base in front of him in ‘08…It’s entirely possible.
But why the VORP was it that when the men on base in front of him went up, the RBI went down?
By MGL
November 11, 2008 4:21 PM | Link to this
Not often mentioned, but Peavy is an above average hitter for a pitcher. Last year, .265 AVG, .302 OBP.
By 18 Wheels of Love
November 11, 2008 4:21 PM | Link to this
Speaking of Whitesnake…didn’t Steve Finley get beat up by Tawney Katain, the red-headed chick in that was in that video? Matter of fact, wasn’t he married to her? You know he only married her so he could tell people “Hey man, remember that chick in the Whitesnake video???”
By Braveheart
November 11, 2008 4:22 PM | Link to this
We could always talk about Whitesnake, right?
Or someone could correctly assess that there is no finer overactor than Daniel Day Lewis ……….
By Wayne
November 11, 2008 4:25 PM | Link to this
Did anybody catch “Wayne from Wyoming” on XM at 4:25pm today???
Waited 25 minutes to get my 2 minutes of fame…..
:-)
By Joe M.
November 11, 2008 4:27 PM | Link to this
The Peavy rumors are starting to jump the shark. If I was Wren, if I didn’t land Peavy by this coming Friday, I’d publicly withdraw my offer (so the Padres have less leverage with the remaining serious Peavy-suitors.)
This whole thing is getting a tad bit ridiculous.
By propp
November 11, 2008 4:27 PM | Link to this
did not realize that about edgar and cabrera. I really enjoyed the time with Edgar in Atlanta, and he has the intangible of bench presence, especially around the younger ones, I just don’t think the production will be there. that being said, I’d take either over the price tag of Furcal.
By SteveInRaleigh
November 11, 2008 4:29 PM | Link to this
Daniel Day Lewis is right up there with Hayden Christianson, and that guy from Twister.
By StingerSplash
November 11, 2008 4:30 PM | Link to this
Don’t know that I’d ever call the great Canadian troubadour top 40. “Sundown” has a certain feel that lends itself to outlaw (you know, the good kind) country, and not that schlock that gets produced like so many fast food hamburgers from Nashville now. “That’s What You Get For Lovin’ Me/Did She Mention My Name,” “Early Morning Rain,” “Steel Rail Blues” … good stuff. A little too lush/too Nelson Riddle Orchestra-y backing at times. But I, again, digress … Of the available free agent hurlers, Dempster and Burnett have the best stuff (gotta take CC out of the equation because the Braves just ain’t in his neighborhood. They may not even be in the same subdivision for salary) but I wonder not about their arms but about the space between their ears and underneath the rib cages. If the Braves can get 3-year deal with a one-year club option for Lowe, that would work wonders. Dude likes to have a good time (can’t hold that against a fella) but is a money pitcher. Seen enough Red Sox games to know that Lowe’s at his best in October. And he didn’t pitch all that badly for the Dodgers this year.
By skull
November 11, 2008 4:30 PM | Link to this
18 Wheels of Love
You got your Finley’s confused, close, not Steve, but it was Chuck, the Angels pitcher that she was married to & whom she decked, not the OF Steve. LOL about reviving that story. Good for a chuckle.
By steveDave
November 11, 2008 4:30 PM | Link to this
DOB If the Braves do part ways with Yunel in the Peavy deal… what are the odds they go after Orlando Cabrera? Do they have a top target in mind as a replacement or is that too much to speculate right now?
I like O.C. a lot, I live in chicago and saw him play a lot this year for the Sox. He’s always been solid with the glove and more consistant the past three years with the stick, around .285. I know it’d be a power dropoff from Yunel, but the potential of adding a Power bat in the outfield would negate that. Who do you think would be the best fit, IF Yunel is sent to S.D.?
By propp
November 11, 2008 4:30 PM | Link to this
My vote is for Whitesnake over Daniel Day Lewis conversations
By JR Bob Dobbs
November 11, 2008 4:30 PM | Link to this
Thanks for the response DOB.
I can appreciate that you haven’t yet been able to listen the to album in question. As for your reply, it perhaps you just haven’t learned how to multi-task yet in this hectic 21st-Century world of instant media coverage fueled by bloggers’ lust…
I might suggest a remedy - crack cocaine (although PCP might work in a pinch). I understand that said prescription is quite an enabler for quick energy. If you follow this path however, you might want to alert Carroll Rogers to plan switching to full-time coverage of the Braves from Thanksgiving or so on, just in case…
Or, you could just smoke a nice Cubano (I prefer Cohiba, but that’s just me)and try to chill out a bit…but only after you file that story about Tyler Flowers, because the hungry blog audience demands more information more quickly…
By lowrider
November 11, 2008 4:31 PM | Link to this
Does anyone else think the timing on the Hoffman fiasco was planned to help make Peavy accept whatever team he is traded to? Seems the Padres could have played this much differently.
By The GM
November 11, 2008 4:31 PM | Link to this
ESPN is now reporting that the Braves and Padres are close to a deal that will send Peavy to the Braves but that the Cubs in a last ditch effort are trying to involve a third team that would make their offer for Peavy more attractive.
By Deep Throat
November 11, 2008 4:31 PM | Link to this
Not often mentioned, but Peavy is an above average hitter for a pitcher. Last year, .265 AVG, .302 OBP.
Cox will STILL bat him ninth always, even below (potentially) Corky Miller.
By Josh H
November 11, 2008 4:32 PM | Link to this
McFann
Could it be because they’d rather walk McCann and load the bases for Francouer? :)
By P-Town Brave
November 11, 2008 4:32 PM | Link to this
New Scoop
Apparently Esco and Gorkys are set in this deal and the only holdup is the third player in the deal….no there is no fourth player…
The Padres are currently deciding on JoJo Reyes or Charlie Morton…
By RC
November 11, 2008 4:33 PM | Link to this
18 Wheels of Love
Yes, he did indeed get beat up by his then wife, Tawney Katain. It aided numerous fantasy baseball team names that year and lead to the famous exchange in the book “Moneyball” where then Ohio State centerfielder Nick Swisher asked a major league scout, “What the h* is up with Finley’s old lady?”
By BB FAN
November 11, 2008 4:33 PM | Link to this
DAP,
WHile I do agree that Renteria would be as good as Cabrera offensively, his defense and arm are not as good as Cabrera’s. Or has Cabrera’s defense slipped over the last few years? I don’t think it has, but I haven’t seen him play much since he went to the Angels and then to Chicago last year.
Anyway, I saw that article about Renteria and Cabrera too. I think it was a business deal, right? But wasn’t it mostly a misunderstanding? Anyway, still very odd they continue to hate each other.
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
November 11, 2008 4:33 PM | Link to this
Lets see if I have this straight.
The Padres have said they want pitching and yet it’s Yunel Escobar as the center piece of this proposed trade. They already have Khalil Greene at SS and will have a tough time unloading his 6.5 million dollar contract.
Barry Axelrod and Jake Peavy have expressed reservations and questions concerning who will play SS for Atlanta if Escobar is traded. Peavy want’s to play for a winner and yet be close to home.
The Braves are willing to trade their best defensive player and best athlete in Escobar. Then, Atlanta wouldn’t have a SS unless they can pull another rabbit out their hat in free agency or another trade which would cost even more money, prospects and players.
The Cubs are offering Sean Marshall who already has 50 big league starts under his belt along with several other rumored Cubs like Felix Pie, Ronny Cedeno, Mike Fentenot, Kevin Hart and others.
So, I have concluded that several somebody’s from all parties involved in this trade are lying through their damn teeth and there is much more going on behind closed doors than what is being said publicly.
My advice to the Braves: Keep Escobar, trade Hanson.
To the Cubs, trade Sean Marshall, Rich Hill, Felix Pie, Mike Fontenot and count your blessings.
By Braveheart
November 11, 2008 4:33 PM | Link to this
When did Tommy Hanson leave “21 Jump Street??
Great catch. That was the name of Johnny Depp’s character on Jumpstreet, wasn’t it? Does Tommy wear 21?
By Bay Area Steve
November 11, 2008 4:34 PM | Link to this
McFann,
why the VORP?
The inevitable has occurred.
All innocence has been lost.
Sheesh.
By RC
November 11, 2008 4:35 PM | Link to this
Wren should publicly withdraw his offer from the Padres, then sign Trevor Hoffman just to spite them.
By oasisbraves
November 11, 2008 4:35 PM | Link to this
DOB..
Have you listened to the new Oasis record? If so, what do you think?
Oasisbraves
By Wayne
November 11, 2008 4:35 PM | Link to this
Wasn’t Daniel Day Lewis the front man for Whitesnake?
By Chop Chop
November 11, 2008 4:36 PM | Link to this
I’m worried about Tommy Hanson. I think the MMMBop royalties might finally go to his head and keep him from reaching his full potential.
(He’s the drummer, by the way. Kinda cut from the same cloth as Bonzo and Moonie, ain’t he?)
By Kentavo
November 11, 2008 4:37 PM | Link to this
No, that was Chuck Finley, not Steve that got beat up by Tawny.
By aefwb
November 11, 2008 4:38 PM | Link to this
18 Wheels of Love — I believe that was Chuck Finley, not Steve Finley.
By A brain is a terrible thing not to have
November 11, 2008 4:39 PM | Link to this
I can name 15 that are better than Peavy : John Lackey,C.C. Sabathia,Cole Hamels,Roy Oswalt,Roy Halladay,Johan Santana,Matt Garza,Cliff Lee,Ben Sheets,Jon Lester,Tim Lincecum,Brandon Webb,Francisco Liriano,Andy Sonnanstine,Josh Beckett.Rob
now that is just plain stupid.You are basing Lester on one year? Amazing. Liriano on 220 IP? Yeah right. Get real dudess. Garza with 300 IP and an ERA of 4? My gawd, do you wake up in the morning and take a stupid pill, or does it just come naturally?
By Braveheart
November 11, 2008 4:40 PM | Link to this
The Peavy rumors are starting to jump the shark.
Know what else has jumped the shark? The phrase “jumping the shark” has jumped the shark.
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 11, 2008 4:41 PM | Link to this
Wayne—
Aw, no! I missed that! Didn’t have my radio on…don’t even know if I get XM…
: )
Joe M. The Peavy rumors are starting to jump the shark.
And how!
By StingerSplash
November 11, 2008 4:42 PM | Link to this
Oh, Braveheart, the saga of Whitesnake … (I actually saw Whitesnake in a triple bill with Dokken and The Scorpions about five years ago in Jacksonville. And lived to tell about it. ) And there are better overactors than Mr. Day Lewis (who was really pretty good in “In the Name of the Father.”). And just as I was about to rattle off a couple, my mind goes blank. See what happens when you see a triple bill of Dokken-Whitesnake-The Scorpions?
By Nate
November 11, 2008 4:43 PM | Link to this
By SteveInRaleigh
November 11, 2008 4:29 PM | Link to this
Daniel Day Lewis is right up there with Hayden Christianson, and that guy from Twister.
By BravesFanInRockies
November 11, 2008 4:43 PM | Link to this
McFann,
Good question about Heap’s RBI numbers. I recall him becoming a much less patient hitter at times with RISP, swinging early in the counts when he shouldn’t have.
You have to wonder if fatigue played a factor. Perhaps his offseason conditioning program will solve that problem.
IMO, I think he’d put up even better numbers if the Braves got a backup catcher who could actually hit a little so that Heap could take an extra 10-15 games off and be fresher.
By Braveheart
November 11, 2008 4:44 PM | Link to this
Daniel Day Lewis is right up there with Hayden Christianson, and that guy from Twister.
I dunno. Does Hayden Christianson overact? I always think of him the opposite way. His issue is he doesn’t act. Hayden is just a pretty mannequin stiffly walking around the movie woodenly reciting lines.
By 18 Wheels of Love
November 11, 2008 4:46 PM | Link to this
Time hasn’t been kind to ol’ Tawney Katain. That or her plastic surgeon is really bad. Can’t believe it has come down to Tawney Katain conversations…I’m going home…
By Wayne
November 11, 2008 4:50 PM | Link to this
I can count on one hand at least 15 flavours of ice cream that are better than vanilla.
By Barret
November 11, 2008 4:50 PM | Link to this
robdawg08-but like you said, we all can have our different opinions about the issue. That is why the Braves pay us all the big bucks you know…. to make these kinds of decisions.
By David O'Brien
November 11, 2008 4:50 PM | Link to this
I actually saw Whitesnake in a triple bill with Dokken and The Scorpions about five years ago in Jacksonville. SingerSplash
Were you dating a 45-year-old ex-stripper, or did you just lose a bet?
By SteveInRaleigh
November 11, 2008 4:52 PM | Link to this
speaking of John Lester… how dumb do the Braves feel for not doing whatever it would’ve taken to make the Andruw + prospects for Jon Lester deal happen two years ago. I don’t know how close the two sides ever were, but it was discussed. Should’ve made it happen, Lester is a stud.
By Braveheart
November 11, 2008 4:53 PM | Link to this
(He’s the drummer, by the way. Kinda cut from the same cloth as Bonzo and Moonie, ain’t he?)
How did you know Tommy was the Ringo of the Hanson group? Now, if they had a drummer, did that make Hanson a band? Or were they just a group? I think of them more of as a group rather than a band. But then there are those who call NSync and the Backstreet Boys “boy bands.” They weren’t bands though. Not one of them touched an instrument.
By David O'Brien
November 11, 2008 4:55 PM | Link to this
JR Bob Dobbs at 4:30: Hilarious.
Braveheart at 4:40: Very funny, and so true.
By Wayne
November 11, 2008 4:55 PM | Link to this
I’m a little sad right now. Driving north with the Grand Teton’s to my left (west), and can’t see a thing for the clouds.
:-(
By Kentavo
November 11, 2008 4:57 PM | Link to this
David Coverversion helms Whitesnake
By Bonzo
November 11, 2008 4:57 PM | Link to this
King of the over actors = Daniel Stern.
I’m embarrassed to even know who Daniel Stern is … In case you don’t know, he was in Home Alone and City Slickers. Bet you know who he is now.
And if the Whitesnake talk gets old, we can always talk about the merits of Firehouse.
By David O'Brien
November 11, 2008 4:58 PM | Link to this
McFann, if you don’t know whether you get XM, then you don’t get XM.
Hey folks, Marty Smith on ESPN. Is he for real, or an actor from central casting playing the part of a NASCAR correspondent? Love it. Dude looks and sounds like some sort of 1950s-era stock car driver from N.C.
By Lew
November 11, 2008 5:05 PM | Link to this
Time may not have been kind to Tawny (check out the movie “The Perils of Gwendolyn In The Land of the Yik Yak” a campy fantasy flick of 25 years or so ago), or anyone else over those intervening years, but we damn well remember those videos from the middle 80’s, don’t we?
By ppaddy123
November 11, 2008 5:06 PM | Link to this
By A brain is a terrible thing not to have
November 11, 2008 4:39 PM | Link to this
I can name 15 that are better than Peavy : John Lackey,C.C. Sabathia,Cole Hamels,Roy Oswalt,Roy Halladay,Johan Santana,Matt Garza,Cliff Lee,Ben Sheets,Jon Lester,Tim Lincecum,Brandon Webb,Francisco Liriano,Andy Sonnanstine,Josh Beckett.Rob
now that is just plain stupid.You are basing Lester on one year? Amazing. Liriano on 220 IP? Yeah right. Get real dudess. Garza with 300 IP and an ERA of 4? My gawd, do you wake up in the morning and take a stupid pill, or does it just come naturally?
DO YOU WAKE UP IN THE MORNING AND TAKE A STUPID PILL, OR DOES IT JUST COME NATURALLY?
Now that’s funny right there….I don’t care who you are…..that’s funny
By Chop Chop
November 11, 2008 5:07 PM | Link to this
Braveheart,
Odds are great that some of those boy bands touched some instruments, if you know what I mean.
Hmm…isn’t “Tawny Kitaen” like one of those pornstar names that is purposely misspelled but doesn’t need to be? I was eight years old when I first saw her rolling around a car hood. My main memory of the experience was this:
“This song sucks a*.”
By Lew
November 11, 2008 5:09 PM | Link to this
DOB-I don’t know-that show might not have been too bad. My son won tickets to see Brittny Fox, Lita Ford and Poison and had to go with him (he was only 10 at the time). I suppose there’s something to be said about Blondes in Black Leather back in the hair band days, but Poison sucks,
By Braveheart
November 11, 2008 5:09 PM | Link to this
I can count on one hand at least 15 flavours of ice cream that are better than vanilla.
Nothing better than chocolate. Moose tracks is good though
By Wayne
November 11, 2008 5:15 PM | Link to this
WW Yep, Moose Tracks and Cherry Garcia are my tops!
By Chop Chop
November 11, 2008 5:15 PM | Link to this
Get the firehouse!
“Firehouse” would be a good song for a closer’s entrance…
By Mitchie-san
November 11, 2008 5:16 PM | Link to this
Tawny was also is a really funny Tom Hanks film, “Bachelor Party”…
By Ye Shall Know the Truth
November 11, 2008 5:18 PM | Link to this
Oh yeah, well I say people who complain that the phrase “jumping the shark” has jumped the shark have jumped the shark.
By Lew
November 11, 2008 5:20 PM | Link to this
Breyer’s Mint chocolate chip. The best commercially made ice cream there is. Moose Tracks is big here in Vermont.
By BrandonC
November 11, 2008 5:21 PM | Link to this
Marty Smith is the man, a good ol’ southern boy.
By Oasisbraves
November 11, 2008 5:22 PM | Link to this
DAVE!!!
Have you heard the new Oasis record? If so what do you think?
By Voice from the past
November 11, 2008 5:23 PM | Link to this
I can count on one hand at least 15 flavours of ice cream that are better than vanilla.
With a hand like that, you could play lead guitar for Whitesnake…
By Steve C.
November 11, 2008 5:23 PM | Link to this
test
By ppaddy123
November 11, 2008 5:24 PM | Link to this
By Mitchie-san
November 11, 2008 5:16 PM | Link to this
Tawny was also is a really funny Tom Hanks film, “Bachelor Party”…
Ahh…Bachelor Party……….one of the most famous lines in cinema……….”Is that the footlong?”
By Lew
November 11, 2008 5:26 PM | Link to this
Mitchie San-Yeah, but shall we say her exposure in Perils of Gwnedolyn was considerably more than in Bachelor Party.
By Bonzo
November 11, 2008 5:27 PM | Link to this
Chop Chop
You may have misunderstood. What I meant was this Firehouse [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oY0dVF9LoZw].
Please, don’t treat me bad because of this post. I mean, I love this place.
By Bonzo
November 11, 2008 5:31 PM | Link to this
ppaddy123
One of my favorite lines in cinema comes from Bill Murray in Stripes:
“You can’t leave. All the plants will die.”
By America, love it or leave it
November 11, 2008 5:33 PM | Link to this
I can count on one hand at least 15 flavours of ice cream that are better than vanilla.
Hey you’re in America, apparently in the great state of Wyoming, don’t be adding no u’s where they don’t belong. It is: “flavor”.
F-l-a-v-o-r
By lowrider
November 11, 2008 5:34 PM | Link to this
Is the Hoffman fiasco a ploy to get Peavy to accept the trade to his new team?
By Wayne
November 11, 2008 5:35 PM | Link to this
voice Was wondering if anybody would catch that…
By Mitchie-san
November 11, 2008 5:37 PM | Link to this
True…True….
By nolie
November 11, 2008 5:38 PM | Link to this
Breyer’s Mint chocolate chip. The best commercially made ice cream there is. Moose Tracks is big here in Vermont.Lew
what are you? A traitor to Ben & Jerry up there?LOL.
Coffee Heath Bar and Phish Food, dude
By Salty Dawg
November 11, 2008 5:47 PM | Link to this
Holy subject change Batman! I don’t check the blog for a few hours and when I come back everyone is talking about Whitesnake, ice cream, and some dude with 15 fingers on at least one of his hands. Talk about regression. Must be time for another rumor grenade to be thrown.
By Lew
November 11, 2008 5:48 PM | Link to this
Nolie-Ben and Jerry, the Old Hippies, no longer own the company. Besides Ben and Jerry’s ice cream is increasingly becoming candy and not ice cream, they put so much stuff in it anymore. I do like the Willie Nelson’s Peach Cobbler, though.
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 11, 2008 5:50 PM | Link to this
Dang…I picked the wrong time to turn the computer over to my Brother! ; ) Got lotsa things to respond to!
DOB if you don’t know whether you get XM, then you don’t get XM.
Haha! Good point!
Josh H—
Ha! That’s a theory!
Bay Area Steve—
I’m so sorry…I gotta watch that cyber-mouth of mine!
BravesFanInRockies—
Yeah, he was a little impatient at times with RISP…it drove me insane! He did it at the beginning of the year, and then at the end…in between times, he was great: .467 in May, .273 in June, and .421 in July. In March-April, he hit….071, .231 in August, and .250 in September.
Could have been “fatigue”…I really would like it if they could get a backup catcher that could hit, oh I don’t know…over .230?
And hopefully the weight loss will help. Don’t know why it wouldn’t.
By Chop Chop
November 11, 2008 5:53 PM | Link to this
Bonzo,
I was just doing some word association. I am aware of the wonderful musical stylings of Firehouse. Firehouse serves a special purpose (that of “powerful bowel evacuant”) in our society.
By Dippin dots
November 11, 2008 5:55 PM | Link to this
I love how our focus shifted from 15 pitchers to 15 ice creams. Eat more Ice cream an quit %$^$in’
By Lew
November 11, 2008 5:57 PM | Link to this
SaltyDawg-And article, posted 45 minutes ago on the Padres MLB website identifies the Braves as the front runner in the Peavy chase. No players in the trade were mentioned. The Braves website reports that Buster Olney claims that Yunel, Gorkys have been agreed to, and we have offered either Charlie Morton or HoHo. The Padres want Locke.
Let us not get into where B and J’s is proposing to get the milk for their ice cream.
By David O'Brien
November 11, 2008 6:03 PM | Link to this
Voice from the past: great point about counting 15 flavors on one hand.
Oasisbrave: Haven’t heard it. Haven’t bought an Oasis album in quite some time, though I loved their first few albums.
By Lew
November 11, 2008 6:05 PM | Link to this
Firehouse-The Ex Lax of rock bands?
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 11, 2008 6:11 PM | Link to this
Ice cream! Not a bad conversation! Don’t think I could ever choose a favorite in that category…
Hey, you could count 15 things on one hand: Just count on that same hand 3 times…
By DonCoburleone
November 11, 2008 6:14 PM | Link to this
DOB I agree that Peavy and Lowe would make this team better, but to think that adding those two alone would turn a 90 loss team into a 90 win team is just wishful thinking.
Go back to 2007: We had a healthy Smoltz and Hudson dominating all season and they only ended up winning 84 games. And that ‘07 team had arguably a better bullpen than we have now, plus Jeff Francoeur putting up league-average numbers, and a 2 years younger Chipper Jones!
By Spencer
November 11, 2008 6:17 PM | Link to this
DOB, Do the Braves have a realistic chance of signing Lowe or Burnett with several other teams having a lot of money to spend?
By Chop Chop
November 11, 2008 6:20 PM | Link to this
Firehouse often is the opening act for Whitesnake.
(If any of you have had a colonoscopy, you’ll know what I’m talking about. Just imagine that the endoscope is white. Better yet, try to erase this image from your mind. I’m trying.)
By Nocturnal Owl
November 11, 2008 6:24 PM | Link to this
Voice from the past: Hanson not getting traded…
This is more speculation than rumor, but David O’Brien of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution wonders if the Braves could go after Matt Cain if their Jake Peavy pursuit falls through
It’s an interesting thought, given reports of the Braves’ mounting frustration with the Padres. At $13-15MM over the next three years, Cain is incredibly affordable. And I imagine the Braves’ primary Peavy trade chips, especially the position players, would appeal to the Giants. Still, when asked last week if Cain is untouchable, Giants GM Brian Sabean replied in the affirmative TD
By Mitchie-san
November 11, 2008 6:24 PM | Link to this
Let the Peavy rumors slow down and the Cain rumors explode on the blog. mlbtraderumors.com posted Dave’s comments on Cain… Here we go…..
By David O'Brien
November 11, 2008 6:25 PM | Link to this
Just had some pretty good BBQ from Big City BBQ here in Mesa, a few blocks from my hotel. Got a two-meat dinner with brisket and pulled pork, with two sides — red beans & rice and mashed potatoes and gravy.
Solid. I’d give it a park-adjusted rating of 7.5 (in Atlanta, grade would be about a 7).
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
November 11, 2008 6:25 PM | Link to this
Lew, that article also said that the Padres had yet to present Peavy’s agent, Barry Axelrod, with a formal trade offer. The Braves and Padres are still haggling over the four players in principle and nobody has gotten Jake Peavy’s approval or input as of yet.
By N8
November 11, 2008 6:25 PM | Link to this
So, I’ve been trying to ruffle some feathers for three days with all my epic posts reguarding the Peavy trade.
So what happens?
Yeah. I make a simple little sarcastic remark about Whitesnake. Leave my office. Come home to finish watching Jaws with my kids, which we started last night and all fell asleep to (which REALLY makes the “jump the shark” conversation seem perfectly placed), to find that Whitesnake has taken over the blog.
Yikes.
Hate me if you want DOB, but it appears that nobody has asked you about who is gonna play SS if Yunel is traded, in about two or so hours.
So, in the voice of SNL’s skit “The Company Computer Guy” ………
YOU’RE WELCOME!!!
By keylargo
November 11, 2008 6:27 PM | Link to this
Has anyone heard or read anything on Mark Kotsay?
By Salty Dawg
November 11, 2008 6:27 PM | Link to this
Let us not get into where B and J’s is proposing to get the milk for their ice cream.
Wow! Definitely not the mental picture I needed this close to dinner.
Regarding the infamous Peavy situation, it seems to me that as we get closer to Friday Towers is the one on the hot seat here. If the Braves in fact recall their proposal (or change it to accommodate a different trade with a GM who actually knows what he wants) then Towers is going to have very little leverage with the Cubs. Towers knows the significance of Friday, so if he screws around and botches this Peavy thing he’s gonna have some ‘splainin to do.
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 11, 2008 6:27 PM | Link to this
Great story about the school here in Georgia honoring Veterans today.
Let me send out my thanks to all the Veterans—my Grandpa on my Dad’s side is one of them!
By Original Jon
November 11, 2008 6:33 PM | Link to this
Guy guys guy We won’t get Cain unless we include Hanson it seems. Read this paragraph from a John Shea article in the SanFrancisco Chronicle.
Asked if Cain is untouchable, Sabean said, “Yes. Clubs know that. That hasn’t necessarily discouraged clubs from inquiring or making suggestions of offers. But we don’t see anything out there that gives us a net gain by losing him.”
By David O'Brien
November 11, 2008 6:33 PM | Link to this
Firehouse? Please.
fIREHOSE, with mighty Mike Watt on bass, now you’re talking. The If’n album was rockin’, and Mr. Machinery Operator. But I preferred his stuff with Minutemen (before fIREHOSE) and his later solo stuff, especially the Ball-Hog or Tugboat? album. Great stuff.
By Bravesfansince1961
November 11, 2008 6:34 PM | Link to this
DOB,
Thank you for the interesting article. I agree that getting Peavy is a must for Atlanta, but please, no Len Barker type trades. I can’t say how pleased beyond words that Hanson and Heyward are off limits.
While I know that I don’t want to give up Yunel in the trade; I think Lillibridge can bounce back and be a servicable SS in the interim. And Wren is right. Two good healthy arms is a must for Atlanta. We, the Braves, feel to pieces because all the SPing got hurt.
But for Gordon Lightfoot songs, I prefer Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald
I look forward to reading your next blog/article.
Braves Fan Since 1961 (I was born into it.) :)
By DerekSTheRed
November 11, 2008 6:34 PM | Link to this
Cain doesn’t have a no-trade clause so this means more teams can bid on him. Don’t you think a team like the Rangers can beat the Braves’ offer for Cain? The reason the Braves can get Peavy at all is because he wants to come to Atlanta and has ruled out playing for the pitching starved Rangers.
By Braveheart
November 11, 2008 6:35 PM | Link to this
Alfonseca had 15 fingers
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 11, 2008 6:36 PM | Link to this
Neight (which REALLY makes the “jump the shark” conversation seem perfectly placed)
Perfectly placed for me, too. My (our) piano teacher and I were just talking about that saying uh…either last week or the week before.
OK, so maybe it’s not so perfectly placed…
Hate me if you want DOB, but it appears that nobody has asked you about who is gonna play SS if Yunel is traded, in about two or so hours.
Haha! How true!
By Nocturnal Owl
November 11, 2008 6:36 PM | Link to this
DOB All that food @Big City BBQ and NO ice cream?
By Mitchie-san
November 11, 2008 6:37 PM | Link to this
Yes, McFann. Good point. Happy Veterans Day to the past Servicemen and women.
By IWANTPEAVY
November 11, 2008 6:37 PM | Link to this
**hey D.O.B……
I know that this trade is probably going through this week, if not before friday. I just want to know if they is anything new… like how are the Pads reacting to the news of the Braves getting impatient?????**
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 11, 2008 6:38 PM | Link to this
Bravesfansince1961 But for Gordon Lightfoot songs, I prefer Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald
That song is great! One of my favorites.
Hey, isn’t that anniversary around this time?
By Nocturnal Owl
November 11, 2008 6:45 PM | Link to this
DOB I didn’t see you talking about Cain at all except some bloggers. Never pictured Cain getting traded or even Braves looking into that. All smoke.
By DAP
November 11, 2008 6:47 PM | Link to this
BB FAN
the hate between edgar and cabrera is mostly on renteria’s side, frim what i remember, but edgar was the one who was wronged in the situation, so that makes sense. something to do with a baseball league in columbia the the renteria’s own and cabrera bought or something…dont know.
yeah, i think cabrera’s defense would be better but not that much better. ive heard some quipps in articles here and there complaining about his arm as well. but his range is clearly better.
By Voice from the past
November 11, 2008 6:49 PM | Link to this
By Nocturnal Owl November 11, 2008 6:24 PM | Link to this
Voice from the past: Hanson not getting traded…
Thank you Captain Obvious. Perhaps that should have directed to someone else?
By DonCoburleone
November 11, 2008 6:50 PM | Link to this
I don’t mean to rain on everyone’s parade here, but even if we add Peavy, Lowe and a bat (Raul Ibanez seems to be a popular choice to sign with us) I can’t see how we can overtake the Phillies (AKA DEFENDING CHAMPS) or even the Mets in 2009. I just see too many holes/unproven players. If those are the 3 big moves we make (and even throw in a Renteria/Orlando Cabrera signing for SS) I don’t see a championship caliber team unless we get a few career years plus Chipper Jones for a full season.
Problems I see (in no particular order):
1) Center Field. Maybe Schaefer comes in and lights it up right away, but more than likely this is going to be some combination of Anderson/Blanco… which is league average at best (on offense and defense).
2) Right Field - Remember how we have a guy in right field who SUCKS to the tune of the worst outfield regular in baseball last year?! (except for when Corey Patterson was starting for Cincy)
3) Shortstop - I have real concerns about Renteria (especially defensively) starting there all year. Orlando Cabrera would probably be my first choice (cuz we ain’t getting Furcal), but even he has never been great (plus he’s on the downside of his career - will be 34 next year).
4) First Base - Kotchman may be the best defensive 1B in baseball, but offensively he is average AT BEST for the position.
5) 3rd Base - Its a FACT that Chipper will miss at least 30 games, what if he misses 60+?
6) Bullpen - Outside of Gonzo, who can really be counted on down there? Soriano is, to put it mildly, injury proned. Moylan will be returning from a serious injury and may not be the same. Boyer? Acosta? Bennett? Gas Can? Lighter?
7) 4-5 in Starting Rotation: Granted Peavy, Lowe, Jurrjens is a solid 1-3, but do we all really believe that Campillo is for real? Can somebody say Jorge Sosa circa 2005? And then lets say #5 is a combo of Reyes/Hanson, what are we going to get out of that?
DOB I am a huge Braves fan and the past 3 seasons have been brutal, but we need to start looking at this teams potential holes and problems rather than how much better two starting pitchers is going to make us!
By MattyRoss
November 11, 2008 6:51 PM | Link to this
So, I’m pretty sure today’s discourse means it’s just a matter of time before a Gordon Lightfoot to the Braves theory pops up on mlbtraderumors.com…
By Bravesfansince1961
November 11, 2008 6:51 PM | Link to this
McFann O –[zzz
The Edmund Fitzgerald sank 33 years ago yesterday.
A salute to all our veterans past and present and anybody who puts his life on the life for us. Be they plice, firefighters, EMTs or sailors.
By BrandonS
November 11, 2008 6:57 PM | Link to this
15 Pitchers better than Peavy?? Someone hasnt had thier meds today have you? HaHa You could argue that statisticly thier are some better but considering Peavys raw talent and bulldog like tenacity I think that he is one of the premiere pitchers in all of major league baseball. I know just as well as most of the people who blog here the Santana, CC, Roy Halliday, and several others are what you can say are ” elite ” pitchers. And you have to mention Peavys name in with those. I will take Jake over any other pitcher in the either league considering his age, salary, and ability any day.
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 11, 2008 6:59 PM | Link to this
Bravesfansince1961—
Thanks! I thought it was yesterday, but I wasn’t completely sure.
MattyRoss—
Haha! Yer prob’ly right!
SUPPORT OUR TROOPS!!
By Mitchie-san
November 11, 2008 7:01 PM | Link to this
Does Lightfoot steal alot of bases? Can he bat lead-off? ;)
By Daybed Wagmoe
November 11, 2008 7:01 PM | Link to this
Go back to 2007: We had a healthy Smoltz and Hudson dominating all season and they only ended up winning 84 games. And that ‘07 team had arguably a better bullpen than we have now, plus Jeff Francoeur putting up league-average numbers, and a 2 years younger Chipper Jones!DonC
The thing to remember about ‘07 is that the Braves had NOBODY backing up Smoltz and Hudson in the rotation. Some figures:
Smoltz and Hudson in ‘07: 30-18 with a 3.22 ERA.
Other starters: 29-40 with a 5.56 ERA. (This group includes Chuck James, Buddy Carlyle, Kyle Davies, Jo-Jo Reyes, Lance Cormier, Mark Redman, and some spot starts by Jeff Bennett and Anthony Lerew.)
Relievers: 25-20 with a 3.46 ERA.
Rest of the staff (starters and relievers): 54-60 with a 4.48 ERA
So, if the Braves can get Peavy and Lowe, you can pencil them in for at least 30 wins (I would think more with those two pitchers). If Jurrjens can avoid a sophomore slump, then he can post another 15. With the back end of the rotation — Campillo, Hanson, other spot starters, and the bullpen — it’s easy to see that 90 wins wouldn’t be out of the question.
By Steve from OH
November 11, 2008 7:03 PM | Link to this
Lew, I’ve never been one to hate hair metal, but that show sounds horrible. Takes a hell of a dad to go see Brittny Fox, lol.
By Mitchie-san
November 11, 2008 7:03 PM | Link to this
Bravesfansince1961 Thanks for including sailors in you post! Much apppreciated.
By David O'Brien
November 11, 2008 7:05 PM | Link to this
DOB I am a huge Braves fan and the past 3 seasons have been brutal, but we need to start looking at this teams potential holes and problems rather than how much better two starting pitchers is going to make us!DonCorbuleone
DonC, two starting pitchers would fill two very big holes.
I think you and the Braves officials are probably have quite different outlooks. By that I mean, you seem more concerned with making sweeping changes designed for the long term, not the 2009 season. Braves officials aim to make additions to try to win now while waiting for the wave of talent to start arriving from the organization over the next few years to help assure success in the future.
By David O'Brien
November 11, 2008 7:08 PM | Link to this
Nocturnal Owl, there were rumors at GM meetings last week about Giants possibly shopping Cain, but S.F. writers told me they didn’t think it would happen, and I know the Braves don’t believe the Giants are shopping him. S.F. would be crazy to trade him. You don’t trade young, affordable, quality starting pitchers, under almost any circumstances.
By spencer
November 11, 2008 7:11 PM | Link to this
Do any of you Braves fans know any other Braves blogs, despite this one seems the be the most accute, and rumor sites, I’m trying to get as much on the Braves as possbible
By Bobby's Cox
November 11, 2008 7:14 PM | Link to this
I wonder if at all the elbow concerns of Peavy have entered into the trade discussions. Wonder if Wren has been playing it in the discussions to lighten the deal.
Just seems to me that losing Escobar for Peavy, then losing Peavy to arm injuries, won’t go over so well with the fans.
I bring this up cuz I talked to a couple of Padres fans today. They would be more than willing to part ways with Peavy for Escobar, citing the arm issues as their major reason. If the trade proposals are correct (Escobar, Gorkys, Morton), San Diego would be dumb not to take that. In fact, if I’m Wren, I ask for a reliever in that package as well.
I think I’d rather keep the kids. Trade KJ for another missing piece, maybe Ludwick, maybe a lesser pitcher than Peavy. Then with a more RH bats in the lineup, you could make a play towards Ibanez. I’m sure this is Wren’s Plan B, but I’m overly cautious about Plan A.
I’d love to get Peavy, but the arm injuries over the last 2 years are worrisome. Call me a hypocrite since I wanted to get Harden last year, but at least Harden’s injuries may be behind him and he could’ve been had for cheaper than a star SS that everyone is baseball has been coveting as per the reports.
By David O'Brien
November 11, 2008 7:14 PM | Link to this
Coach, regarding your 6:25 p.m. post, at 1:07 p.m. I posted the quote from Axelrod stating as much in his e-mail to me today. That the Padres hadn’t come to them to approve any deal yet.
By siskel
November 11, 2008 7:15 PM | Link to this
DOB
Javier Vasquez?
Milton Bradley?
Any chance?
By keylargo
November 11, 2008 7:19 PM | Link to this
Daybed
I’m a homer myself Daybed, but you should add something new to your handle -
Daybed Wagmoe (Mr. Optimism)
By BrandonS
November 11, 2008 7:20 PM | Link to this
The Jake Peavy to the Cubs rumors will not die, and today they took a turn for the interesting.
A source within the Padres organization claims that it’s “basically a done deal” (whatever basically means) that Peavy is headed to Chicago, and that the Cubs will send back Felix Pie, Sean Marshall and Ryan Theriot.
Is this one of those “I know a guy, who knows a guy” deals? Yes, that’s exactly what it is. So I have no idea if it’s true. All I can say is that the “source” is a guy who actually should know.
If he’s too be believed, sometime last night the Cubs and Padres agreed on the players already mentioned, and any haggling left would involve any minor leaguers who might be included in the deal on both sides.
This would directly contradict what Buster Olney wrote today on ESPN.com, in which he thinks the Braves and Padres have basically agreed to trade Yunel Escobar, Gorkys Hernandez and a pitcher for Peavy.
Of the five named players in the trade rumors (Pie, Marshall, Theriot, Escobar and Hernandez) Escobar’s clearly the best player. But Gorkys isn’t that great, and it’s no safe bet that either Jo-Jo Reyes or Charlie Morton would ever be any better than Sean Marshall.
I guess the Cubs’ rumor makes sense if Theriot is going to play second base for the Padres, since Cubs fans have seen that he clearly can’t handle shortstop defensively.
You know, if Felix Pie had just actually been good, this trade would have been a lot easier to make, wouldn’t it?
Well, we’ll see who’s right. Little Buster Olney or a guy who actually draws a paycheck from the Padres. Let’s hope it’s the Padre.
The Jake Peavy sweepsstakes may be over………
By Matt the Brave
November 11, 2008 7:21 PM | Link to this
One rumor I saw was that the Giants would be wanting to trade Zito and pay for most of his contract. Do you think that is a legit rumor, or something that SI made up to get the blogs going? If it is a legit rumor, do you think that the Braves should take a flyer on him even though his fastball has slowed greatly?
By BravesFanInRockies
November 11, 2008 7:29 PM | Link to this
Matt the Brave,
I fear that Zito may be less effective than a 43-y.o. Glavine or a 46-y.o. Moyer. And would cost much more.
By Brandon S
November 11, 2008 7:32 PM | Link to this
DOB do you think the Peavy deal could be done by friday if not when? Also if we do get Peavy is it almost certain we get one of Burnett, Lowe, or Dempster?
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
November 11, 2008 7:33 PM | Link to this
What the heck is Bob Klapish talking about:
Trade bait
There’s plenty of up-and-coming talent that could be used to snare a frontline starter like Jake Peavy. But Wren has ruled out that option, leaving him with few other high-impact choices. The best assets are either too precious to move (Brian McCann) or are currently undervalued (Jeff Francoeur).
Emphasis is mine in the above paragraph.
The article is here
By Lew
November 11, 2008 7:33 PM | Link to this
Coach-Someone asked for a rumor and I just gave them the most recent I could find. I make nothing of them, myself. I’ll find out what happens when DOB writes it up-or a Denizen posts it and DOB confirms it. It will be what it will be. How Zen..
By Buffalo NY Braves Fan
November 11, 2008 7:35 PM | Link to this
BrandonS
Any link or factual information to prove this rumor? Or is this guy just a friend of a friend of yours…..
I’m more inclined to believe Buster Olney since it’s his job to report on baseball, he talks to most every GM and agent, and he’s 95% accurate with most trades.
By Brandon
November 11, 2008 7:36 PM | Link to this
When do you think Peavy will be traded and if so how soon do you think we will sign a top FA pitcher or will we?
By David O'Brien
November 11, 2008 7:40 PM | Link to this
spencer, why don’t you just Google “Braves blogs”? Guarantee you you’ll get plenty of them that way.
Or are you wanting someone to list them here for some reason?
I just did it myself, googled “Braves blogs,” and about a dozen of them were listed.
By Salty Dawg
November 11, 2008 7:40 PM | Link to this
DonCoburleone 6:50 post
Wow, you are more pessimistic than I am, and that is saying something.
Yes, it is theoretically possible that everything conceivable will go wrong next year. But the same could just as easily happen for any team.
By DonCoburleone
November 11, 2008 7:42 PM | Link to this
“Sorry, dude, but they just don’t see it as you do. Frankly, I don’t see it the way you do, either.”
I would totally agree with you if we were in the NL West or something, but this division is not going to get worse next season. Washington will be much improved, Florida is always tough, the Mets missed the playoffs by 1 game and you know they are going to spend to fix that bullpen. And oh yeah, by the way, the Phillies are the defending champs and have everyone not named Pat Burrell coming back.
Come March it is going to be the same old tired cliche’s we’ve been fed since 2006. In fact DOB, I’ll write some of your March headlines for you right now, just remember to give me credit for the titles when you write these:
“Chipper is determined to play 150+ games this year.”
“There is finally depth in the starting rotation.”
“Soriano is healthy and ready to dominate the 8th inning in 2009.”
“Edgar Renteria determined to regain 2007 form.”
“Jeff Francoeur hopes new contacts, focus on flexibility will lead to better numbers in 2009.”
“Cox excited about Braves chances in ‘09.”
Blah blah blah, bla bla, blah blah blah blah… I REFUSE TO GET OPTIMISTIC ABOUT 2009 UNTIL I SEE SOME IMPROVEMENT ON THE FIELD! I’M OUT!!!!
By BrandonS
November 11, 2008 7:44 PM | Link to this
www.desipio.com/?p=1782……That was the link i found while reading comments on mlbtraderumors
By Bubdylan
November 11, 2008 7:47 PM | Link to this
JasoninFL, Klapish’s articles seemed slapped together to me. He listed the Braves as missing the playoffs two seasons straight when it’s three. Then in his analysis of the Mets, he listed them as having missed the playoffs three years straight now, when it’s two. Besides little gaffes like that, he just didn’t seem to have a real read on anything.
By Georgiajon10
November 11, 2008 7:49 PM | Link to this
Ok Dave, I don’t know if you’re still here or not but I only have one concern. I am cool with the whole Peavy thing…the only thing that worries me is the impact that Yunie has on a game…he is disruptive, he can get in the heads of fielders and pitchers and is a great (going to get better) “get-on-base” kind of guy to have hitting in front of almost anybody on the team. Most of the guys in the lineup can do damage KNOWING he is on the base-paths, not to mention the damage he can do on the base-baths as he continues to mature. So how do we replace him?? Anybody we would look to trade for or sign…maybe bring up?
By Patrick
November 11, 2008 7:50 PM | Link to this
Buffalo,
Don’t pay any attention to that post. Someone posted that exact article on their blog today on disipio.com??? about 5 hours ago, so if it were true a major site would have reported it by now
By Salty Dawg
November 11, 2008 7:57 PM | Link to this
The Jake Peavy sweepsstakes may be over………
Good. Whether we get Peavy or not I’m ready for the whole thing to end so we can get on to other pressing issues/opportunities.
By David O'Brien
November 11, 2008 7:58 PM | Link to this
Brandon S just cut-and-pasted that from some Chicago blog I’ve never heard of, not connected to anyone who covers the team, no attribution, no sources.
Brandon, after about 300 comments here today dissecting the possibilities of Braves pitching trades and signings, and after we’ve discussed until we’re all blue in the face when and where Peavy is going to be traded, you’re just going to weigh in with, “When’s Peavy going to get traded?” And with a link to a random blog no one’s ever heard of, a link that was already posted here about six hours ago?
Geez, dude. Take a place in line.
By David O'Brien
November 11, 2008 7:59 PM | Link to this
Siskel: Ibanez and Bradley, a chance, yes. Don’t know if it’s much of a chance, but it’s a better chance than, say, Burrell or Dunn. Those latter two are unlikely for Braves.
By Joe M.
November 11, 2008 8:01 PM | Link to this
But Wren has ruled out that option, leaving him with few other high-impact choices.
Jason, he wouldn’t have any new info. that no one else has. I think he simply meant the Braves won’t trade their top prospects, not that they won’t or can’t trade for Peavy.
BrandonS, that is the same old stale blog entry posted here hours ago. It is likely BS.
By BravesFanInRockies
November 11, 2008 8:02 PM | Link to this
DonC,
If Wren falls short and doesn’t land two impact SP and a legitimate power threat in left, then I’m with you.
If he gets those guys, the Braves are in contention. The Mets have holes in their rotation, at LF, 2B, and no closer.
The Phils will be the favorites but they’re probably losing Burrell and still rely on Jamie Moyer to start every 5th game.
The Nats will be better and might contend in the NL West but they have a long way to go.
Wren could acquire some real stinkers, of course, and then yes, we’ll be waiting for 2010.
By Lew
November 11, 2008 8:03 PM | Link to this
DonC-I’m certainly not saying the Phillies won’t be tough, but they can’t count on another season like that from 46 year old Jamie Moyer, their pen or Brad Lidge having another perfect season. After Hamels, their rotation is Iffy. In addition, McFann may put out a hit on Shane Victorino.
The Marlins will likely dump more players for prospects, the Nationals probably won’t be able to count on another MVP season from Willie Harris and I’ll believe the Mets fix that bullpen when it happens.
Everyone in the Division still has questions. The Braves could come out of this winter in pretty good shape. I think it’s highly improbably we’ll be as snake bit in 09 as we were last year. Let’s just wait a while and see how it shakes out before we throw in the towel.
By StingerSplash
November 11, 2008 8:04 PM | Link to this
What? No love for Dokken? “Breaking the Chains”? Or the masters of Teutonic rock, The Scorpions? Lemme tell ya, my Members Only jacket and the T-top Camaro were rockin that night! Whooo! (I do not own a Members Only jacket nor a T-top Camaro. Some days, a little cheese ain’t so bad, you know. OK, granted, that was a lot of cheese. Like a dairy’s worth.)
By StingerSplash
November 11, 2008 8:07 PM | Link to this
**Just had some pretty good BBQ from Big City BBQ here in Mesa, a few blocks from my hotel. Got a two-meat dinner with brisket and pulled pork, with two sides — red beans & rice and mashed potatoes and gravy.
Solid. I’d give it a park-adjusted rating of 7.5 (in Atlanta, grade would be about a 7).**
We’re not going to get into an argument on VORD (value over replacement dinner) are we? fIREHOSe>>>Firehouse. So says Ed from Ohio.
By BrandonS
November 11, 2008 8:07 PM | Link to this
DOB that was not me making those comments and questions.. I pay attention very closely to all things Braves.. I knew the answer to those questions..But i found that post in mlbtraderumors.com
By Daybed Wagmoe
November 11, 2008 8:09 PM | Link to this
keylargo, nah, I won’t be doing any such thing. Thanks though.
To tell you the truth, I don’t think a combined 45 wins from Peavy, Lowe, and Jurrjens (which is what I was trying to say) is an unattainable goal for those three, especially if they can stay healthy for the whole year. I won’t vehemently say that 45 wins from them is a sure thing, but if that’s what winds up happening, I honestly wouldn’t be surprised, either.
Now, the 90 wins thing — perhaps I overstated that a bit, but I would say that if those three can win 45 games between them, then 85-90 wins — 40-45 wins from the #s 4 & 5 starters, spot starters, and relievers — is a possibility.
By mitchie-san
November 11, 2008 8:14 PM | Link to this
The Nats will have to be REAL good to contend in the NL West…..
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 11, 2008 8:18 PM | Link to this
Lew In addition, McFann may put out a hit on Shane Victorino.
Haha…And don’t it just figure that the Braves will be playing the Fillies—in CBP—on my B-day? Hu boy. This could result in one very good, or very bad birthday present.
But you know what’s kinda “funny”? I really disliked it (with a passion) when the Braves played the Fillies, and McCann’s numbers against the Fillies were arguably his best against any team in ‘08. But that’s not as fun when the team isn’t winning.
By Steve from OH
November 11, 2008 8:20 PM | Link to this
Stinger, I can give George Lynch and Mick Brown some love, lol. Don Dokken? Now that’s another story all together, isn’t it?
And if we do start using VORD, what constitutes a “replacement dinner?” Is it a hungry man or my lousy attempt at dinner? Important questions you know.
By keylargo
November 11, 2008 8:26 PM | Link to this
To tell you the truth, I don’t think a combined 45 wins from Peavy, Lowe, and Jurrjens (which is what I was trying to say) is an unattainable goal for those three, especially if they can stay healthy for the whole year Daybed Wagmoe
Like I said, you are very optimistic, not that 45 wins are not possible, but that the Braves will have Peavy and Lowe as their first two starters.
I am so confused by Wren letting Towers lead him around in circles for a month, that I don’t have a clue as to what will happen.
By DJ
November 11, 2008 8:29 PM | Link to this
The trade for Peavy needs to happen really soon. Then concentrate on signing AJ Burnett and trade for either Jermaine Dye or Magglio Ordonez. Also, sign Renteria to a one year deal with incentives. Resign Norton and add another piece to the bullpen and your 2009 roster is set:
Anderson CF Renteria SS Jones 3B Dye or Ordonez LF McCann C Kotchman 1B Francoeur RF Johnson 2B Peavy P
Rotation: Peavy Burnett Jurjjens Hampton (if re-signed) Hanson
Bullpen: Gonzalez CL Soriano Moylan Ohman (if re-signed) Morton
Bench: Norton Prado Back-up catcher Plus three more impact players
LET’S GET THIS DONE ASAP!!!
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 11, 2008 8:30 PM | Link to this
Man! I was doing some digging and found an article from July 22, 2008 that talked about the Reaper possibly being traded. (And I remember reading that—doing some wishful thinking—when it first came out.)
Dang! Why’d the deal hafta fall through? Just think what wouldn’t have been…
By StingerSplash
November 11, 2008 8:30 PM | Link to this
Steve from OH,
When I saw Dokken (the leadoff group from that murderer’s row of metal that night), they were sans George Lynch on guitar and Don Dokken acted as if he couldn’t wait to check his stocks online between songs.
By StingerSplash
November 11, 2008 8:33 PM | Link to this
I try to assimilate all those OPS+ numbers, and the VORPs and all the other Sabermetic stuff and I … get … sleeeeeppppyyy …. awwwwnnnnnn …. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz….
By JR Bob Dobbs
November 11, 2008 8:34 PM | Link to this
Thanks for the response DOB.
I can appreciate that you haven’t yet been able to listen the to album in question. As for your reply, it perhaps you just haven’t learned how to multi-task yet in this hectic 21st-Century world of instant media coverage fueled by bloggers’ lust…
I might suggest a remedy - crack cocaine (although PCP might work in a pinch). I understand that said prescription is quite an enabler for quick energy. If you follow this path however, you might want to alert Carroll Rogers to plan switching to full-time coverage of the Braves from Thanksgiving or so on, just in case…
Or, you could just smoke a nice Cubano (I prefer Cohiba, but that’s just me)and try to chill out a bit…but only after you file that story about Tyler Flowers, because the hungry blog audience demands more information more quickly…
By brian
November 11, 2008 8:36 PM | Link to this
I still think Peavy is a must. Getting Peavy will set us up for this year and next year. You just cannot find a #1 starting with a Cy Young resume in his prime under a reasonable contract for 4-5 years available very often. DOB made a good reference to next year’s rotation which would be even more dominant.
Rotation: Peavy, #2 starter (Dempster, Lowe, etc), Jurrjens, Hanson, and Glavine/Campillo/Hampton
Next year: Peavy, #2 starter, Hudson, Jurrjens, Hanson would be lights out
If the Braves are able to upgrade left field significantly they will be able to survive missing Escobar. They do need to get a veteran whether Renteria or Cabrera while seeing what Lillibridge can do (remember how highly regarded he was just over 1 year ago) versus trading for hardy which I assume would cost us lillibridge in a package.
By Daybed Wagmoe
November 11, 2008 8:38 PM | Link to this
Bubdylan — I agree, Klapisch’s article reads like it was written by someone who doesn’t follow the Braves very much. Here are some of his comments:
“…while Smoltz’s agent has hinted in published reports that the right-hander may land elsewhere in 2009…Hard to imagine Smoltz moving on, but he’s technically a free man now that his $12 million option with the Braves for 2009 didn’t vest. It remains to be seen to what degree the Braves will reinvest with Smoltz, and whether he would return as a starter or reliever.”
He’s reading more into the rumors surrounding Smoltz than what’s actually been reported — that Smoltz wasn’t even aware of his agent’s comments until after they had been published. Based on what both Wren and Smoltz have said, it’s clear that if Smoltz is going to be healthy enough to pitch in 09, it’ll be with the Braves rather than another team.
And Klapisch’s statement that Wren has ruled out trading up-and-coming talent for Peavy? Totally wrong. Gross negligence in reporting. (Okay, maybe not that far, but he’s still wrong.)
By Salty Dawg
November 11, 2008 8:40 PM | Link to this
What? No love for Dokken? “Breaking the Chains”? Or the masters of Teutonic rock, The Scorpions? Lemme tell ya, my Members Only jacket and the T-top Camaro were rockin that night! Whooo! (I do not own a Members Only jacket nor a T-top Camaro. Some days, a little cheese ain’t so bad, you know. OK, granted, that was a lot of cheese. Like a dairy’s worth.)
I don’t know how much love I’d give to the T-top Camaro, but I would love to pick up a 70’s vintage Firebird. Now that’s just classic.
1970 Pontiac Firebird. The car I’ve always wanted and now I have it. I rule!
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
November 11, 2008 8:40 PM | Link to this
Exactly. like David O’Brien has posted and I repeated.
NOBODY HAS CONTACTED BARRY AXELROD OR JAKE PEAVY. Neither the Braves or the Cubs have anything concrete as of yet.
It’s all rumor and innuendo.
By Bubdylan
November 11, 2008 8:43 PM | Link to this
Probably somebody has said this already, so I’m sorry if it’s a repeat, but…If we were to resign Renteria, and if he were to return to high form - both unlikely I’d imagine -IF that were to happen, it would turn the Jurrjens trade from a painful-enough Detroit misfire into something truly absurd. I imagine the Tigers would put a call-block on the Atlanta FO’s telephone number.
By Saff
November 11, 2008 8:48 PM | Link to this
DOB out of Burnett, Lowe, and Dempster which one fits the Braves plans i know Burnett has had his injuries and we sure dont need that and Dempster has alot to prove after one year of starting. In my mind Lowe is as close to Tim Hudson as you can get both are sinkerballers and have really good ground ball ratios and Lowe has been good in the NL. Your Opinions…??
By Daybed Wagmoe
November 11, 2008 8:49 PM | Link to this
Like I said, you are very optimistic, not that 45 wins are not possible, but that the Braves will have Peavy and Lowe as their first two starters.keylargo
Keylargo, read what I wrote above — I’m responding to DonC’s 6:14pm post, where he supposes that the Braves would have Peavy and Lowe. I’m just running with that scenario and showing how a rotation with Peavy, Lowe and Jurrjens would be better and more complete (by having three potential 15-game winners) than the 07 rotation of “Smoltz and Huddy, then things get muddy.”
Besides, if I do think that the Braves will have both Peavy and Lowe, does that make me overly optimistic? I don’t think so — even if the Braves trade for Peavy, they’ll have the funds to go after Lowe. I personally wouldn’t bet the farm on the Braves signing Lowe (I think that Boston or the Mets will outbid us), but it could still happen.
By Frank
November 11, 2008 8:53 PM | Link to this
DOB
I’m the Braves fan from Kansas. Haven’t posted in awhile.
I hope this Peavy thing gets done soon so they and we (we meaning the fans) can move on to more bigger things this off-season and if we lose Escorbar….so be it. I wouldn’t complain about Edgar OR Furcal coming back to the Braves.
Oh and btw….one of my all-time favorite Gordon Lightfoot songs is the aforementioned…Wreck Of The Edmund Fitzgerald Great song.
By Nocturnal Owl
November 11, 2008 8:59 PM | Link to this
Glad Braves made it clear that they need to get things going once FA market opens up Friday. Wren has done everything right so far.
Staff, I was thinking exact same thing. The big question mark is who should be a Brave out of BIG 3 FA starters; Dempster, Burnett, or Lowe.
Lowe seems to be the best. He is that ground ball pitcher we need. Less injury prone than Burnett. Has more success than Dempster. I vote for Lowe. Problem is Boston and Yanks both want him. Good luck on that.
McFann, still thinking of the reaper :).. Got that shirt yet?Lol
By Kevin13
November 11, 2008 8:59 PM | Link to this
With teams exclusive negotiating rights coming to an end on Friday I think the Peavy saga will finally come to an end before the week is done. According to Ken Rosenthal the Braves have made it clear to the Padres that they can’t afford to sit back and wait for a deal while other clubs are free to negotiate with desirable free agent starters. With the Braves able to negotiate with the likes of Derek Lowe, A.J. Burnett and Ryan Dempster the Padres aren’t likely to get a better offer from any team once everyone hits the open market.
From a Cubs perspective they would obviously love to add Jake Peavy to a rotation with Carlos Zambrano, Ted Lilly, Rich Harden, and a potentially resigned Dempster, but there are a lot of road blocks from that becoming a reality. For one, they just don’t have the young talent within their organization to match the Braves offer and are in need of a third team with pitching depth just to compete. Finding a team with young, major league ready pitchers whom they are willing to part with is hard enough let alone negotiating the demands between the Padres and the third mystery team. Also, I would imagine resigning Ryan Dempster would be their top concern considering whatever deal he signs will likely be less than Peavy’s and wouldn’t require them giving up any prospects. Remember, the Cubs were by far the NL’s best team during the regular season. They don’t need an overhaul just some tinkering.
Even if the Braves don’t get Peavy, which I think they will, they can still have a great offseason. If Yunel stays Kelly Johnson could be used in a trade for Ryan Ludwick. A trade that would fill the Braves need for a power-hitting, right-handed, corner outfielder and improve their defense up the middle. Either way I think we can all agree that next year can’t be as bad as last year. The three top starters aren’t all going to have season ending surgeries again and there is no way on god’s green earth that Jeff Francoeur can ever play THAT bad again. Here’s hoping the soap opera ends by the time Sunday night football starts.
By Yankee Dawg
November 11, 2008 9:00 PM | Link to this
DOB or other smart bloggers, any chance we trade Flowers for a SP - Cain? Seperately any potential SP’s from the Marlins (those that don’t get tendered an offer).
And Music - Any Buffalo Tom fans here?
By Nocturnal Owl
November 11, 2008 9:04 PM | Link to this
… Then again all that in the trash if we get Peavy and Taz?
Saw some video on Hanson. Exciting person. I see ace written all over. He was talking about how his focus in Arizona is the change up.
By Corb
November 11, 2008 9:04 PM | Link to this
DOB: WHAT ABOUT BOBBY CROSBY FOR SS? WHAT WOULD IT TAKE TO GET HIM?
By MattyRoss
November 11, 2008 9:06 PM | Link to this
DOB Surprised to hear you say Bradley is more likely than Burrell. Does that reflect the Braves interest in each or how they’re being pursued around the league? I’m guessing either of the World Series teams will make the strongest push for Burrell, but it’s not obvious to me why the Braves would prefer the Monopoly man. Sorry if you’ve covered that.
By Nocturnal Owl
November 11, 2008 9:09 PM | Link to this
Yankee Dawg
Looks like DOB got your answer at 7:08. Thanks DOB. Exactly what I was thinking. The GM made it clear few months ago now..:
By Heath
November 11, 2008 9:10 PM | Link to this
If the Braves are going to take advantage of what is probably only a couple of good years left from Chipper, then a trade for Peavy really needs to get done. DOB, I like JJ Hardy…do you think that maybe the Braves and Padres can get Milwaukee involved so that the Padres can offload Greene to the Brewers and the Braves can compensate the Brewers with some prospects for Hardy? The loss of Escobar is then not such a big deal offensively and the lack of big offensive numbers in CF is not such a big deal if we get us a LF with just a little offensive power? …And of course a second starting pitcher.
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 11, 2008 9:19 PM | Link to this
Nocturnal Owl still thinking of the reaper
It’s pathetic, isn’t it?
No, I haven’t gotten that shirt yet! Haha…don’ think I ever will unless Santa decides that I was really bad this year!
; )
By Hammy the Brave
November 11, 2008 9:22 PM | Link to this
DOB,
Thanks again for all your updates!It helps us Brave’s fanatics get thru the winter.
Just asking, is it possible at all to get Peavy w/o giving up Escobar(if the package is expanded to 4 or 5 prospects)?
Also, I really like the possibility of getting Ludwick(and his contract and power), for Kelly Johnson. Is it not possible at all to do this deal, while waiting on Peavy(which would probably require losing Escobar), and just having to bring in a SS from outside(while putting Prado at second)? Otherwise, I don’t know if there would be as lowpriced a RH power option as Ludwick, who I’m afraid we’d lose out on by waiting to do the Peavy deal first.
By tkg
November 11, 2008 9:25 PM | Link to this
Chop Chop
Your 5:53 post is priceless … Fantastic. Made me laugh out loud.
By Bonzo
November 11, 2008 9:26 PM | Link to this
Love the 5:53 post, Chop Chop. I couldn’t have said it better myself. Firehouse is certainly no White Lion.
By keylargo
November 11, 2008 9:26 PM | Link to this
Just to talk about something different than Peavy, I would like to talk about somebody that I have not seen mentioned in an outfielder.
I thought Jay Bruce from Cincy was as good of a young OFer as I saw last year. The Reds would probably put him in the McCann category of being untouchable but the combination of him being 21 and affordable for the next 4 years would make the price of acquiring him tolerable.
He hit 21 homeruns in 413 ab’s which would put him in the 30+ over a full season. What is the possibility of trading two or three top prospects for him as opposed to say Maglio Ordonez? The savings would be $18mm a year.
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
November 11, 2008 9:28 PM | Link to this
As far as comparison’s go between the Phillies, Mets, Marlins and Braves when it comes to stud short stops, third basemen and Ace pitcher’s.This is it.
The Phillies have Jmmy Rollins, Pedro Feliz and Cole Hamels.
Those pesky Mets have Johan Santana, David Wright and Jose Reyes.
The Marlins have Hanley Ramirez, Jorge Cantu and no real Ace.
Our Braves have Yunel Escobar, Chipper Jones and Tim Hudson
Escobar is almost gone and Huddy is out for most if not all of the 2009 season. Atlanta might have Peavy and Hudson in 2010 but I don’t care what anybody says, they cannot replace Escobar. Stud short stops do not grow on tree’s.
Chipper might end up on the trading block before July 31 2009 because the Braves will need a miracle next year if they are to compete and win. His contract ends after the 2009 season.
We definitely have some short sighted people running the Braves organization as evidenced by the results from the past ten years.
The Braves have not won squat in 2006, 2007 and 2008.
Atlanta hasn’t seen the playoffs since 2005.
They have not won a playoff series since 2001.
They last made it to the WS in 1999 and got swept.
I have ZERO confidence in our manager and the GM is starting to make me question his judgment not to mention the corporate ownership which stinks.
By SteveInRaleigh
November 11, 2008 9:29 PM | Link to this
I say we save some money and sign Charlie Leibrandt and Steve Bedrosian… I mean, Jamie Moyer got a ring at 53… it could happen…
By brian
November 11, 2008 9:31 PM | Link to this
any chance that Flowers has played his way into the untouchable category?
By N8
November 11, 2008 9:32 PM | Link to this
DOB
“You don’t trade young, affordable, quality starting pitchers, under almost any circumstances.”
Maybe somebody should tell Kevin Towers thta. He apparently missed GM 101 on the day they were handing out the hand-book.+
Don Dokken checking stocks? That’s funny.
Also, I’m not sure anybody at an 80’s hairband concert was wearing a Members Only jacket. If they were they were serving one of two purposes.
1) Buying booze for under-aged metal heads at the liquor store around the corner.
2) They were being used as a punching bag buy under-aged metal heads that just got some booze from the other nerd in a Members Only jacket.
Went to many concerts in the 80’s and don’t remember one instance of a guy in a Members Only jacket standing next to me. Unless those bad imitation leather jackets were manufactured by the same company that made MO jackets?
Now, for the Huey Lewis concert I attended in 1984? That’s a different story. Geeks galore at that show. I do beleive that the Members Only jacket, along with the Red Parachute Pants (Black, White or Grey was also acceptable), was required garb.
No leather allowed.
Anyhow.
By 18 Wheels of Love
November 11, 2008 9:33 PM | Link to this
What about a trade for Aaron Rowand?
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
November 11, 2008 9:36 PM | Link to this
New article by Bowman stating the Braves are confident in their offer. It can be found here
By Mac
November 11, 2008 9:41 PM | Link to this
Yankee Dawg: HUGE Buffalo Tom fan. New CD is great. If you like them, check out Gaslight Anthem’s “The 59 Sound”.
By Salty Dawg
November 11, 2008 9:46 PM | Link to this
any chance that Flowers has played his way into the untouchable category?
Why? He is blocked within the organization for the foreseeable future, so his greatest value to the Braves is to develop into a key trade piece. Whether that is this winter or next year, it all boils down to what we can get for him. Granted, it is nice to have a guy like him in the minors just in case something happens to McCann down the road, but a catcher that can hit like that is too valuable to be kept in the minors as a backup or to ride the pine at the major league level. Same situation we had with Saltalawhatever. Barring a catastrophic injury to McCann, Flowers will definitely be traded at some point. If his current hitting display makes him desirable this winter and we can get a favorable return I wouldn’t be surprised to see him traded sooner than later.
By Don't Trade Franceour, Sheesh
November 11, 2008 9:48 PM | Link to this
Incidentally…it was 33 years ago Monday that the Edmund Fitzgerald sank.
By Wayne
November 11, 2008 9:49 PM | Link to this
N8 and DOB
As for teams not trading young starters (Cain, Peavy, etc), usually that happens similar to Hudson’s contract situation. This Peavy deal is certainly not the norm, which is why I think I will be disappointed if it doesn’t happen, due to the rarity of it.
As for Cain (or Hanson), yes I think the Giants would be fools to trade him.
Problem with the Giants is that they have SOOO many holes, if they were truly overwhelmed, they might move him.
Heck, I think Frank would trade Hanson for the right deal. Probably not too many right deals out there. If the Cards offered Pujols, or if the Giants offered Lincecum, I suspect Frank would deal.
That old addage is “everything I own is for sale, for the right price.”
Friends Was wondering with all the counting of 15 pitchers better than Peavy, if anybody would notice my “ice cream” couting on one hand! You are an alert bunch tonight!
Gotta hit and run…..
By byebye
November 11, 2008 9:50 PM | Link to this
I REFUSE TO GET OPTIMISTIC ABOUT 2009 UNTIL I SEE SOME IMPROVEMENT ON THE FIELD! I’M OUT!!!!
Who cares? Just don’t let the door hit you in the azz during your egress dude.
By Opposing Opinion
November 11, 2008 9:53 PM | Link to this
Stud shortstops aren’t the be all and end all. Escobar was probably the third best shortstop in his division. The real “stud” shortstop of the division was sitting in Fla. when the playoffs began. Having a stud SS doesn’t guarantee a trip to the playoffs. The Braves won in ‘95 with a slick fielding guy who couldn’t hit his weight! It’s all about team construction with the key word being TEAM. Escobar has yet to prove what his ceiling is. Will he be a star? Could be. Could he be less than a star in the future. Could be. Picking up a couple of good starters isn’t going to guarantee a turn around of the Braves fortunes, but neither is depending on Escobar and the current cast of under achievers.
By rmf
November 11, 2008 9:54 PM | Link to this
Towers has to trade a player he does not want to trade because his owner is getting a divorce. It also puts him under a lot of pressure to make a great deal under difficult circumstances. He has got to be pretty p** off about all of this.
IMHO he has to stretch this out until he sees the Braves moving on other free agents. He has nothing to lose until then and has the hope that either Wren will break and include Hanson (not possible at this point) or that another suitor will come up with a better package (also now starting to appear unlikely). The Braves want Peavy badly and he knows he has them until they start serious discussions with others. He will keep playing chicken with Wren for at least the next few days.
The question I have about this is what will Peavy want other than just getting to pick one of several teams. I am sure his agent will demand some $$$$ for waiving the clause? I also wonder whether the union will want him to demand money since his contract is now below market. Maybe the Padres know what it will take and this has been factored into the negotiations, but won’t the Braves walk (or take a player to two back) if he demands a lot of money?
I have not seen any major league player waive anything lately without getting paid for it and I doubt that Peavy will. Maybe I am too cynical, but I don’t think the lure of playing close to home will be enough to get Peavy to sign the waiver.
By Spunky
November 11, 2008 9:57 PM | Link to this
We need to keep Hanson for sure. And I wish either Flowers or McCann would agree to moving to first base. That would get two power hitters and both would be able to play. Then, for the games McCann needs to take off from behind the plate, you can throw in Kotchman at first.
By Steve from OH
November 11, 2008 10:00 PM | Link to this
Coach, I think it’s a little too early to judge Frank Wren. I just don’t see us as a team set up to win in ‘09, and that’s not really FW’s fault. FW is dealing for right now but he also has an eye to the future, and I do think trading for Peavy sets us up to win in 2010 and beyond.
Let me ask you this: would you trade Yunel straight-up for Peavy? Becuase that’s essentially what this trade is. Gorkys is expendable with Schafer in the fold, and JoJo is spare parts. I can understand the love affair with Yunel because he is a darn good player, but Peavy is more valuable to us at this juncture. It will be very hard to replace Yunel, without a doubt, but we have an opportunity to snag a Cy Young winner at an all-time low price. FW is buying low and he should. If Yunel doesn’t improve over this season’s numbers with the stick (and he may not at Petco, keep that in mind), we win in the deal, hands down. I think we can be fairly certain that FW has someone in mind to fill Yunel’s shoes. Don’t despair, because the Peavy trade is the beginning of our offseason, not the end. I’ve seen nothing to suggest that FW is anything short of a wonderful GM.
The process of re-building the team will take a year or two, so let’s not judge FW until he’s got a few years under his belt, shall we?
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 11, 2008 10:03 PM | Link to this
Salty Dawg Barring a catastrophic injury to McCann…
Oh no…please…
“Saltalawhatever”…that’s funny!
Night, all!
By Mike in LA
November 11, 2008 10:04 PM | Link to this
It’s funny how a year ago everyone was talking about how lillibridge was going to be taking over for Escobar once he was ready and that Escobar would either be traded or moved to third. Where are those Lillibridge supporters now? Yes, he had a bad season but part of that was due to a wrist injury before the season. If Lillibridge were to end up being the starting shortstop I think he could hit .270 with 10 hr and 30 sb while playing good defense. If the Braves upgrade the rotation with 2 quality starting pitchers then I think the offense/defense lost by Escobar would not affect them in the loss column
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 11, 2008 10:10 PM | Link to this
Spunky And I wish either Flowers or McCann would agree to moving to first base.
Not happening, man. They both take a lotta pride in catching, and they want to do whatever they cann to improve behind the plate.
It’s funny…You always hear the catchers talk about how much they love their position. They seem more “outspoken” about it than other position players. Maybe I just think that because I follow catchers, I don’t know.
OK, I’m going…
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 11, 2008 10:12 PM | Link to this
Dangit…the McCann story dropped to #2!
Really…I’m out…
By David O'Brien
November 11, 2008 10:15 PM | Link to this
Saff, the Braves would be pleased to get any of that trio, Lowe, Dempster and Burnett.
Lowe is solid, dependable, an innings-eater they really need. Not one of those top-10 legit No. 1-type guys, but can certainly do fine atop the rotation if you have a solid No. 2 and No. 3 (Jurrjens is one of those spots, preferably No. 3 in Braves’ view).
Dempster has had injuries and inconsistencies in the past, but I think the Braves believe he’s turned a corner of sorts with his performance, that he’s learned how to pitch and take care of himself. And he’s got great clubhouse rep, a real solid team guy by all accounts (I can tell you he certainly was with the Marlins when I covered them and he was there, and DeRo said they love him in the Cubs’ clubhouse.)
The feeling is that A.J. was a horse this year, stayed healthy and pitched great (unlike, say, Ben Sheets, who couldn’t go when the season was on the line in the last month). And while there’s some risk because of A.J.’s injury-plagued past, there’s a risk with most of the top pitchers available. And with him, the upside is that he’s absolutely a No. 1 when healthy.
By Salty Dawg
November 11, 2008 10:15 PM | Link to this
…won’t the Braves walk (or take a player to two back) if he demands a lot of money?
If Peavy and his agent waited until this late in the discussion to spring that trap it would show pretty poor character. I really don’t think that is going to happen. They came out up front saying that any agreement to waive the no trade would probably require the new team to turn the option year into a guarantee and that is certainly understandable. But to change the game in the bottom of the 9th, so to speak, would be pretty lame. If that did happen though, it would undoubtedly change the makeup of any offer the Braves have on the table. After all, what they are agreeing to do is trade x,y,z players for Peavy at his current contract rates for the life of that contract. To ask for more money would lessen the value of what the Braves are getting in return and no way Wren would still give the same package.
By Ron in mobile
November 11, 2008 10:16 PM | Link to this
I wonder if theyve started making started making Peavey jerseys yet.
i know im gonna need one immeadetialy. One of my best friends is a big Cubs fan, think ill have to wear it over to his house.
By John
November 11, 2008 10:16 PM | Link to this
I agree with mike in la… I believe that lillibridge could come in and be a solid ss.
By David O'Brien
November 11, 2008 10:17 PM | Link to this
Mac: That’s a fine band, Buffalo Tom. I haven’t heard the new one.
And Gaslight Anthem’s debut album is outstanding. They’ve got a great garage-rock retro sound. Bought that a couple months ago when I was in NY, after hearing them on a station up there (they’re based in Brooklyn).
By Salty Dawg
November 11, 2008 10:18 PM | Link to this
Let me ask you this: would you trade Yunel straight-up for Peavy? Becuase that’s essentially what this trade is. Gorkys is expendable with Schafer in the fold, and JoJo is spare parts.
There is no such thing as “expendable” or “spare parts”. Every player is a commodity, some worth more than others. Certainly if the Braves were to independently trade Gorkys and Reyes on the open market they wouldn’t get nothing in return, would they? No. So look at it from that point of view. What would those two players be worth on the trade market detached from the Peavy deal? That is the added value that the Braves are offering in addition to Esco.
By Salty Dawg
November 11, 2008 10:22 PM | Link to this
Spunky
Don’t hold your breath. McCann has made a point to say he wants to catch his entire career. He seems to be the kind of guy that would do it for the team if the Braves really pressured him to, but I just don’t see that happening. Flowers is kind of in the same boat. Plus, good catchers that hit great don’t grow on trees.
Not to mention, from what I hear Flowers isn’t major league ready anyway, so it wouldn’t even be possible this year and maybe not even next.
By Rick
November 11, 2008 10:27 PM | Link to this
Braves confident in offer to Peavy
(Article on Braves.com. For some reason, none of my posts with links ever goes through.)
Reading this and other reports, I think it is very likely the trade ends up being:
Escobar, Hernandez, Reyes/Morton, Locke
for
Jake Peavy and a prospect of some kind.
I’d bet money on it right now.
By Rock Dweller
November 11, 2008 10:28 PM | Link to this
I have a few questions that I hope DOB can answer:
Do you think the Braves will include Hanson in the Peavy trade?
Is Hampton re-signed for next year?
Are the Braves interested in signing any free agents? If so, which ones? Ryan Dempster, AJ Burnett, Derek Lowe, Jon Garland and Javier Vasquez are all free agents, do you the Braves have any interest in them? They should sign K-Rod as their closer.
Adam Dunn would be great in LF…I hope the Braves sign either him or Ken Griffey Jr.
I heard that John Smoltz is going to sign with another team next year…do we know which team yet?
When does the new Q-Tip album come out?
By Salty Dawg
November 11, 2008 10:28 PM | Link to this
I agree with mike in la… I believe that lillibridge could come in and be a solid ss.
The problem I see with trying to fill short with Lil’ Bridge is that he is by far unproven and you can’t improve the team by solidifying one area and weakening another. That, I believe, is precisely the concern that Peavy had with the Escobar trade. Pitching was definitely our weakness last year. This time next year we don’t want to be here on the blog discussing FA short stops again saying that short was definitely our weakness. That whole “baby Braves” thing was great for a short time when they all seemed to be future all stars, but the wheels fell of pretty quick. We need an experienced short stop if we have to turn Escobar loose.
By SaveFlowers
November 11, 2008 10:29 PM | Link to this
If his current hitting display makes him desirable this winter and we can get a favorable return I wouldn’t be surprised to see him traded sooner than later.
lets keep him and trade McCann for Cain
By skull
November 11, 2008 10:31 PM | Link to this
Tyler Flowers? Considering the reports coming out of Arizona I’m beginning to believe maybe we should hang onto this young man. Is he looking like someone who can hit 30 hrs? If so then we don’t want to be so quick to package him off since we’re always in the market for 30 hrs player. Position? He may be a ‘C’ & while he may be blocked by Mac & we have Kotch & Freddy at 1st, then we need to find a spot for someone with his power potential. LF? Think he’s to big at 6’4” & 245lbs. Think again! Frank Howard at 6’8” & 275lbs player RF for years while producing 382 hrs!
By Rahul
November 11, 2008 10:31 PM | Link to this
I hope we don’t get Ibanez…Any offensive value he provides would be wiped out by his glove, the man cannot play the outfield. Which gives you an idea how bad his defense his, because he is a pretty solid hitter.
By GSU-Lee
November 11, 2008 10:32 PM | Link to this
DOB, I was wondering, I have only really heard the more recent Social D stuff. Do you like the recent Social D? Like the “Reach for the Sky” stuff? Just curious. And What are your favorite albums by them, I am trying to widen my collection
By matt r
November 11, 2008 10:34 PM | Link to this
DOB,
I’m excited the Peavy talk turned out to be more than web traffic-driving rumors. I enjoyed the article on Flowers… If iMcCann is a fixture for us behind the plate, what other positions could you see Flowers playing? Also, do you think we may one day see him pulling off a Josh-Hamiltonian HR derby performance??
Thanks
By Bubdylan
November 11, 2008 10:40 PM | Link to this
lets keep him and trade McCann for Cain-SaveFlowers
INCOMING!!
By BravesFan79
November 11, 2008 10:42 PM | Link to this
Rock Dweller: i hope…and think Smoltz will NEVER be in another uniform!! The man was one of the top starters in the NL last year but yall act like hes washed up. Idiots.
Can we please stop thinking about signing Hampton and focus on signing Ohman!
And lets forget about Peavy, keep Escobar, and focus instead of trading for the Jays Roy Halladay! Perhaps the Jays would accept KJ and prospects.
By matt
November 11, 2008 10:43 PM | Link to this
This blog is awesome. Not only all the braves talk, but Firehose and Buffalo Tom references in the same blog! Tailights Fade is one of my favorite songs ever, love all their albums, especially Let Me Come Over.
Now, what’s this I hear about getting Jake Peavy? haha
By Philliesuk
November 11, 2008 10:55 PM | Link to this
Did someone really say that we should try to trade for Jay Bruce??? He was a ROOKIE last year. He was the #1 prospect ranked by BA last year. The Reds can pay him the league minimum. Why would they trade him right now?
By Deep Throat
November 11, 2008 10:56 PM | Link to this
lets keep him and trade McCann for Cain
Oh you did not just say that. You remind me of those people here that were suggesting the Braves trade McCann and keep Saltalamacchia during the Teixeira trade talks (seriously, some here were saying that. Look at some of the Braves/MIB blogs in July 2007. It amazes me how short-sighted some people can be.)
Get the heretic everyone!
By mmmmgood
November 11, 2008 10:59 PM | Link to this
I thought Firehouse was some lame Campbells Chunky Chili.
By Salty Dawg
November 11, 2008 11:01 PM | Link to this
lets keep him and trade McCann for Cain
That is borderline blasphemy and you are lucky McFann isn’t around to see it.
Seriously though, not a chance that would happen. None. None whatsoever. McCann is a cornerstone you build a team around. He is one of the few legitimate all stars we have on the team, he is a fan favorite (meaning he puts butts in seats and sells merchandise). I truly believe that if it came down to it McCann would be the last player any team would be able to get out of the Braves. Just my opinion though.
By Saltywoody
November 11, 2008 11:01 PM | Link to this
Were you dating a 45-year-old ex-stripper, or did you just lose a bet?
Amazing.
By Steve from OH
November 11, 2008 11:02 PM | Link to this
Salty Dawg, that’s a good point. But the way I look at it is that they’re of no use to us in ‘09 if Peavy is acquired (and Schafer stays put), and what better value can they bring back than a Cy Young winner? Because while I’m sure most here would certainly do a Yunel for Peavy straight up deal (if you won’t, I think you’ve been drinking a little too much of the kool-aid), putting those two in a deal with Yunel is still underpaying (in my eyes) for a player of Jake Peavy’s caliber and circumstances. That’s why they’re expendable.
I certainly see your point. Maybe I should have been more careful on my wording.
By crimedogrules
November 11, 2008 11:03 PM | Link to this
If we trade Yunel, can we get Carl Crawford to play shortstop?
Sorry it just doesn’t feel like the off-season without the Crawford talk…
Enjoy
By DHD
November 11, 2008 11:05 PM | Link to this
In the mean time….the Hawks are 6-0. A win AT Chicago without Josh Smith.
Getting tired waiting on this Peavy deal.
By Saltywoody
November 11, 2008 11:08 PM | Link to this
I’ve got a general question that DOB may not be able to answer for professional reasons, but I’d love to know.
How does a beat writer or a reporter get the email addresses and/or cell phone numbers of players and agents? By that, I mean does one get them because they are already your own contacts? Or does the AJC or Braves officials or something provide them to you when you’re crowned team beatwriter?
Just curious.
By Steve from OH
November 11, 2008 11:12 PM | Link to this
Save Flowers is lucky the McFann Inquisition isn’t here to personally lead the witch-hunt.
By Saltywoody
November 11, 2008 11:15 PM | Link to this
I made this argument before and got shot down. So, I’m going to make it again for good measure.
Eric Byrnes for left field. Crappy year this year, but solid years for the other two in Arizona. Will steal 25-30 bags, good defense, decent OBP, some pop in his bat. And a sparkplug.
DO IT.
By Bravo Nam
November 11, 2008 11:15 PM | Link to this
DOB
Big thank you and Peter Moylan
I haven’t checked in for a while, but still follow you every day. Hands down this is the best sports (music, food) blog. Your dedication to posting whenever possible and quality of info is better than any other blog in Australia or the States…really appreciate you and what you contribute…thanks man.
I wanted to say a particular thanks for the blog you put up a few months back about Peter Moylan. It touched me on a number of levels…obviously coz I’m a Braves fan and an Aussie…but more deeply than that were the aspects about his personal life. I’ve spent close to a decade now in Vietnam and Cambodia, mostly on voluntary and low paying work. I’m here for lifestyle reasons and because I feel I can make more of a difference than back home. Unfortunately, financially it hasn’t been a good move. My wife and daughters were with me for most of my time in Vietnam, but my marriage fell apart. My wife fell for a smoother dude than I am with plenty of money. At one stage, two of my three daughters (I have two biological and one adoptive) were in my care, but as they got older I couldn’t afford the exorbitant cost of schooling here. The upshot is that they’re all back in Australia now going to school.
Like Moylesy (my Aussie nickname for Peter Moylan), I have struggled with guilt and regret over the break-up of the marriage and impact on my daughters. I miss the girls terribly. There’s a lot of second guessing about how things could’ve been different e.g. if we hadn’t left Australia. I blame myself for that. Anyway, thanks for that story…it really moved me…and I suppose gives me additional reasons to root for the guy. I’ve reached a decision that I’m gonna make a move back to Oz some time in the near future so that I can be closer to my daughters/they can live with me.
I’m now 41, followed the Braves since 1974 when I was 7…lived in the Big A for three years back in the mid-70s. My only other regret about moving out here, other than losing my family, has been that they rarely show any Braves games out here, and I don’t have the financial means to travel to the States to see my Bravos. Nevertheless, I will always love them…and thanks to you Dave, even though I can’t see them, I can still follow them through your eyes…thanks mate.
By Yankee Dawg
November 11, 2008 11:22 PM | Link to this
DOB, I know you know your music as good as anyone on the planet, B-Tom is from Boston, you travel too much :).
I was a DJ in Athens at the University station back in 92-93, great years. Buffalo Tom was my favorite band. I gave them WAY too much air time, but “MGMT” was busy listening to fIREHOSE and The Jesus Lizzard, so I got away w/ audio-murder. Buffalo Tom Let Me Come Over is great, great, great stuff - produced by Jay Mascus of Dinosaur Jr. fame. My fav song from new album “Three Easy Pieces” - You’ll Never Catch Him.
ON Bravo talk, Towers being forced to trade Peavy feels like Millwood and Schulerholz circa 2002? Diff circumstances, but both GM’s felt/feel the same - reasons SUCK, and they want to extract the most value they can.
By AdirondackDave
November 11, 2008 11:24 PM | Link to this
Deep Throat —- Too early to put the knock on Salty. He is unhappy with the way he was misused by Texas… could still turn into one of the best catchers in baseball. Give him a full time job for a couple years and then judge his work.
As for Flowers, he may still be a work in progress (throwing) but the rest of his game behind the play appears to be excellent. With a bat in his hands, well, if I were Mac I’d keep an eye on the rear view mirror. May not be a coincidence that Heap is slimming down this year in an effort to step up his game. (if a 3-time all-star can do that.)
If Flowers continues to be as explosive as he’s shown this year, his market value (like Salty) is greatest behind the plate. I look for the Braves to trade him for a Bruce/Granderson level young outfielder or a quality young starter.
DOB — Is Flowers’ rep rising around baseball enough to get the attention of the Giants (Cain), KC (Greinke), or Boston (Lester)?
By Save Flowers
November 11, 2008 11:27 PM | Link to this
If you’re going to San Francisco Be sure to wear someFlowers in your hair If you’re going to San Francisco You’re gonna meet some gentle people there
For those who come to San Francisco Summertime will be a love-in there In the streets of San Francisco Gentle people with flowers in their hair
All across the nation such a strange vibration People in motion There’s a whole generation with a new explanation People in motion people in motion
For those who come to San Francisco Be sure to wear some flowers in your hair If you come to San Francisco Summertime will be a love-in there
If you come to San Francisco Summertime will be a love-in there
By Moby Grape
November 11, 2008 11:34 PM | Link to this
Eric Byrnes for left field. Crappy year this year, but solid years for the other two in Arizona. Will steal 25-30 bags, good defense, decent OBP, some pop in his bat. And a sparkplug.
DO IT.SaltyWoody
NO DON’T! I don’t call .325 OBP decent, it’s pretty damn poor actually. A faster Francoeur-ish type dude.and Ariz is one of the best hitters parks in the NL, so it would probably go down here even farther. and he isn’t cheap either.
By J.L.
November 11, 2008 11:36 PM | Link to this
What this blog needs is more COW BELL.
By uga-brave
November 11, 2008 11:42 PM | Link to this
DOB,
thanks for all the gordon lighfoot going through my head today.
no mention of my personal favorite “if you could read my mind.”
as for ice cream, bryer’s coffee takes the cake.
after the two plus weeks of breaking down the peavy babble some of the comic relief this afternoon was refreshing.
to think the hawks are 6-0 and falcons are 6-3.
By Philliesuk
November 11, 2008 11:50 PM | Link to this
Keep Flowers. Would it really be that horrible to move him or McCann to 1st base? We really have a lot to look forward to…Heyward, Schafer, Flowers, Freeman, and Hanson, in addition to others. Honestly, if we do get Peavy, we have a lot to look forward to in 2010 and beyond.
Now if we could just work on Kelly’s glove and Francoeur’s bat…
By Saltywoody
November 12, 2008 12:07 AM | Link to this
Moby
Get AZ to eat some of his salary.
And his ‘07 OBP was .353. Not great, but not terrible. And you’ll take that from a guy that’s stealing 50 bases and hitting 20+ homers.
And he’ll have something to prove this year. Plus he hustles…so he’s already got Frenchy beat there.
By Billy In Nashville
November 12, 2008 12:12 AM | Link to this
It seems to me that CC. Sabathia might have more innings pitched per start for two possible reasons. 1 He used to be in the American League with Cleveland and therefor was not pinch hit for because of the DH. 2 when he was traded to Milwaukee he had a lead in the vast majority of his games and many he was at least tied in the 7th inning or beyond. He happens to be a very good hitter and the payoff to pull him for a pinch hitter wasn’t high enough considering he could hit the ball out of the park or at least drive a ball into the gap and get a double. When you factor in pulling him and the pinch hitter possibly making an out (even .300 pinch hitters which are rare fail 7 out of 10 times) it’s not worth not having CC on the mound for the next inning or two.
Peavy on the other hand had very poor run support and even if he only gave up a run or two (remember if his era is sub 3.00 and he only pitched 6 or 7 innings he couldn’t have been behind by more than a run or two very often) he was pulled often for a pinch hitter especially if there was a runner on and 2 outs hoping for a game tying home run. I don’t think it necessarily speaks to Peavy’s durability when he had such a poor offense supporting him. If he would have been on a team that scored 4 or 5 runs or more he might have pitched deeper into games more often. Just a thought!!
By Corky Miller
November 12, 2008 12:12 AM | Link to this
May I take your order?
By Ron in mobile
November 12, 2008 12:21 AM | Link to this
Man! I just went over to the padres website and watched a few Peavy highlight videos. This is strongly recomended for those who are aching over losing Yunel.
In particular look out for his 2-seamer, right handers havent a chance when he throws over the outside corner.
Don’t get me wrong…losing Yunel sucks. Having this guy though would be earth shattering. I want teams to come in and say awww s@&* Peavey is pitching tomorro.
By Lew
November 12, 2008 12:24 AM | Link to this
Stinger-If you can’t handle Don Dokken, there’s always Lynch Mob-Wicked Sensation.
By Coach ( Skip and Pete will be missed)
November 12, 2008 12:36 AM | Link to this
About that Cy Young award. Few will remember me shooting my mouth off concerning the pitching virtues of Tim Lincecum before this season started.
And this is the part where I take a bow and say , I Told you so!
By Moby Grape
November 12, 2008 12:38 AM | Link to this
And his ‘07 OBP was .353. Not great, but not terrible. And you’ll take that from a guy that’s stealing 50 bases and hitting 20+ homers.Saltywoody
I guess we will just disagree. he is a .325 career OBP with some years worse than that.His last 4 years have been .294/.313/.353/.272. That is way too poor especially having such a crazy poor year after his one good one. Like most stats guys, I don’t care much about the stolen bases. I think we can do a better.
By David O'Brien
November 12, 2008 12:49 AM | Link to this
DOB, I know you know your music as good as anyone on the planet, B-Tom is from Boston, you travel too muchYankee Dawg
Yeah, and?
I said Gaslight Anthem was from Brooklyn, not Buffalo Tom.
By the way, were you into the similarly named band to Buffalo Tom, also rootsy rock, called Grant Lee Buffalo? Great band, and Grant-Lee Phillips later put out a couple of fine solo albums.
All that info, occupying brain space that could otherwise be utilized for storing valuable VORP figures (OK, getting a lot of mileage out of condescending VORP references. My bad.)
By David O'Brien
November 12, 2008 12:59 AM | Link to this
Bravo Nam, that 11:15 post made my day, bro. (or “mate.”)
I wish you were here, because I’d introduce you to Peter. He’s one of the coolest cats I’ve encountered in sports, and completely down-to-earth, because unlike most pro athletes he spent a decade out of the realm and in a regular middle-class job. He’s got no pretense about him.
And I know he’d enjoy talking to you, a fellow Aussie apparently with plenty in common. Maybe I can pass along your e-mail address or something, or give you his e-mail address (I’d have to ask him first, just to make sure it’s cool, but I’m pretty sure he’d be up for that.)
Anyway, peace to you, man. Take care over there. And we’ll try to keep you up to speed on the Bravos and Moylan.
By Coach ( Skip and Pete will be missed)
November 12, 2008 1:01 AM | Link to this
But, on the other side of this Cy Young vote is Johan Santana.
He actually out pitched Tim Lincecum in 2008 by the thinest of margins. The wins and losses won’t reflect that reality, but he did.
When it comes to quality , good and bad starts. Santana graded out to 28-5-1. His team record was 22-12 with 22 starts of 7 or more innings. The ERA was 2.53
Tim Lincecum was equally impressive at 26-1-5 with the same team record of 22-12 and 20 starts of 7 or more innings. The ERA was 2.62
It all came down to personal wins, losses and a little bit of lady luck. Lincecum had 18 and Santana 16. Those are what add up in the minds of the bean counting voters.
By David O'Brien
November 12, 2008 1:02 AM | Link to this
I thought Firehouse was some lame Campbells Chunky Chilimmmgood
It’s also the name of a sub sandwich chain based in Florida that ain’t half-bad.
By Bubdylan
November 12, 2008 1:05 AM | Link to this
So, are we guessing that the deal is Escobar, Gorkys, and Morton with Towers angling to get Locke included? Or is it more likely to be that Locke is already included and Towers is pushing for an even better package than that from us or the Cubs?
By Flustered Fan
November 12, 2008 1:11 AM | Link to this
Even if Peavy does come to Atlanta, McDowell will just mess him up. I am an eternal Braves fan, believe me. I just don’t think the Braves are going to be competitors as long as Liberty Media owns them. Its a lose-lose situation. At least we have the Falcons to be proud of. They did the right thing in, well, everything.
By David O'Brien
November 12, 2008 1:20 AM | Link to this
Yeah, Flustered Fan, we believe you’re an eternal Braves fan. But not exactly an eternal optimist, huh?
By Bubdylan
November 12, 2008 1:33 AM | Link to this
How big a deal is it if Tommy Hanson never develops a major league change-up? I mean, is he developing it because it’s a given that he’ll need it? Or is he just trying to get as big an arsenal as he can get?
By David O'Brien
November 12, 2008 1:34 AM | Link to this
Saltywoody: No, unfortunately, there’s no book with numbers and e-mail addresses that we pass around to one another. We’re on your own getting all that stuff.
GSU-Lee, Social D’s got several great old albums, but if I were you, I’d start with their self-titled album from the early ’90s, and White Light, White Heat, White Trash from the mid-90s.
Oh, and Mommy’s LIttle Monster is great; that one’s a little older. And just a few years ago they put out another really strong album, Sex, Love & Rock ‘n’ Roll.
There. that’s all you need. And of course Mike Ness’ two solo albums are both outstanding.
By Bubdylan
November 12, 2008 1:44 AM | Link to this
DOB, have you ever been tempted to post the lyrics to a truly terrible song by a truly terrible act just to see what the reaction would be? I’m trying to think of something truly awful that you could pull off with a straight face….
By KC
November 12, 2008 1:45 AM | Link to this
Has anyone seen the “3 Questions” video segment at Braves.com with MLB’s Seth Everett? This guy was completely talking out of his *#$%^. I was embarrassed for him.
First of all, he added a G to Jair Jurrjens name, by pronouncing it as Jergens. Then he went onto say…
“There was so much reliance on veterans, whether it was Smotz, Glavine, Mike Hampton… they were too much excess and not enough youth. And what they need to do is get younger, and they know they’re going to have to take their lumps in doing so.”
Huh?
“they were too much excess and not enough youth”? That doesn’t make sense, but I get what he was trying to say… AND HE’S WRONG.
The injuries to the old guys was not the largest part of what killed last season. It played a big role, sure… but if Hudson, Soriano, and Moylan (none of whom are old) had been healthy all season long, I’m convinced the Braves 2008 story would have gone quite differently.
They would have been in a much better position at the deadline, and would have been buyers rather than sellers.
Now, as for the other part of Mr. Everett’s journalistic jewel… “what they need to do is get younger, and they know they’re going to have to take their lumps in doing so”.
Right. The Braves have resigned themselves to rebuilding the pitching staff with farmhands, and are prepared to “take their lumps”. Does this guy actually check out any of the news surrounding teams before he reports on them?
And then there’s my favorite line of the entire piece…
“Outfield isn’t their priority because they don’t want to spend a lot of money. Look for Josh Anderson to play an increased role.”
I say again… I was embarrassed for him.
By Coach ( Skip and Pete will be missed)
November 12, 2008 1:46 AM | Link to this
Every pitcher needs an off speed pitch to keep the batter off balance in the box. Of course, the most important factor is location, location and location. The better the control, the better the pitcher and a mid to high nineties fastball doesn’t hurt either.
Basically, I prefer that any pitcher have at least three pitches. Fastball, curveball and the change up.
By Bubdylan
November 12, 2008 1:53 AM | Link to this
I just used the word “truly” thrice in one post. I’m going to bed.
By SC James
November 12, 2008 2:01 AM | Link to this
DOB, If the Peavy deal falls through would it take the same kind of return we are planning to give San Diego to get Cain from San Fran? If no, who would you see us having to give up?
By Coach ( Skip and Pete will be missed)
November 12, 2008 2:08 AM | Link to this
Matt Cain is untouchable. The Giants will NOT trade him. So just forget that idea.
By Nocturnal Owl
November 12, 2008 2:12 AM | Link to this
Locke is considered #9 best prospect in Braves system. This is not just a small throw in. Towers needs to take JoJo and call it a day.
By David O'Brien
November 12, 2008 2:23 AM | Link to this
Bubdylan, you mean something like “Tubthumping” by Chumbawumba (or however they spelled it)?
Or maybe that classic, “Man! I Feel Like a Woman!” by Shania Twain?
No, that would be truly unsettling. Truly disturbing. Truly.
G’night.
SC James, Coach is right: Cain isn’t going to be traded.
By BA
November 12, 2008 2:25 AM | Link to this
Coach, twelve to six or regular curve? I’m kind of partial to the Bearded Icon arsenal- heater, slider and a nasty splitter. Of course, you can’t go wrong with the bp fastball, change up, slower change up, slowest changeup. I call that one “The Mexican League Maddux”.
That Mike Ness country record was a trip- in a good way, of course. But for that breed of country, I’ve got to go with No Depression.
By Nocturnal Owl
November 12, 2008 2:52 AM | Link to this
OK, getting a lot of mileage out of condescending VORP references. My bad
You got McFann saying it now.
By BravesAC
November 12, 2008 2:54 AM | Link to this
DOB - Best Gordon Lightfoot song was the one with the lyrics “you won’t read that book again because the hero would be me”. When guys think they can fix things with a girl in a relationship gone sour they should remember hose pearls of wisdom. Maybe the title was “If you could read my mind”. His lyrics were always crisp and striking to go with his distinctive voice…like his “sure been nice to know ya” on EdmundFitzgerald. I’d definetly pay to see him in a small setting.
Braves question: Do the Braves think Hics could be a starting MLB shortstop? I’ve got no opinion yet on Hicks, but I can’t really identify anyone in the farm system like an Andrus that you can make the heir apparent.
By BravesAC
November 12, 2008 2:54 AM | Link to this
DOB - Best Gordon Lightfoot song was the one with the lyrics “you won’t read that book again because the hero would be me”. When guys think they can fix things with a girl in a relationship gone sour they should remember hose pearls of wisdom. Maybe the title was “If you could read my mind”. His lyrics were always crisp and striking to go with his distinctive voice…like his “sure been nice to know ya” on EdmundFitzgerald. I’d definetly pay to see him in a small setting.
Braves question: Do the Braves think Hics could be a starting MLB shortstop? I’ve got no opinion yet on Hicks, but I can’t really identify anyone in the farm system like an Andrus that you can make the heir apparent.
By Coach ( Skip and Pete will be missed)
November 12, 2008 3:20 AM | Link to this
BA, it’s funny isn’t it? The splitter has faded in popularity even though the pitch is almost unhittable when thrown the right way. I prefer the big old 12 to 6 curveball with some bite on it. If it’s thrown too slow batters can get underneath it and drive it.
I got into the eternal debate over the difference between the splitter and forkball with O’Brien the other day. The two pitches are distinctly different. The splitter is thrown like the fastball with full velocity, whereas the true forkball is thrown much slower and serves as a breaking ball.
As far as Greg Maddux goes, that man is damn genius with a baseball. I think he must have had about ten different pitches and total recall on each and every batter he ever faced. I hope to God that Maddux stays around the game. He would make for the perfect pitching coach or manager.
The one pitch that I would advise any pitcher to learn is the knuckle ball. Nobody except Tim Wakefield and R.A. Dickey thrown the damn thing anymore. Phil Niekro, Hoyt Wilhelm and Jesse Haines made Hall of Fame careers with it. When considering the money being thrown around these days, if a kid is willing to make the commitment and can stick with it, the opportunity is there to make a really good living.
By Kevin13
November 12, 2008 4:40 AM | Link to this
Ken Rosenthal reported that the Padres have asked for Tyler Flowers to replace Gorkys Hernandez in the Braves proposed package. God, this deal just keeps getting harder and harder to stomach. If that’s truly the package it takes to get Peavy I don’t know if I could pull the trigger if I were Wren.
By Spoiler Alert - The Shield
November 12, 2008 4:41 AM | Link to this
At least 4 regular characters die in the last episode. Shane?Vic?Ronnie?Julian?Aceveda?Dutch?Danni?Claudette? Billings?Olivia?Pezuela? Just 2 more episodes. :-(
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
November 12, 2008 5:24 AM | Link to this
From Rosenthal:
“The Padres again have asked the Braves to revise their proposal for right-hander Jake Peavy, requesting that the team substitute Single-A catcher Tyler Flowers for Single-A center fielder Gorkys Hernandez, according to major-league sources.
Flowers, 6-foot-4 and 245 pounds, is tearing up the Arizona Fall League, and the Braves probably are unwilling to part with him in the same package as shortstop Yunel Escobar and either right-hander Charlie Morton or left-hander Jo-Jo Reyes. Frankly, they’re not thrilled with trading any of those players.
The Cubs and Padres, meanwhile, continue to discuss the same list of six to eight names from which the Padres would choose in a deal for Peavy. The Padres then would have the option of spinning one or more of those players to other clubs.
One rival GM poses a good question: Why are the Braves so willing to trade Escobar? When the Braves included shortstop Elvis Andrus in their package for Teixeria 16 months ago, club officials reasoned that Escobar could man the position for the next six years.
Well, Escobar is part of the price to get Peavy. The Braves believe that Brent Lillibridge would be a lesser hitter than Escobar but a superior defender, further benefiting their pitching staff.”
The article can be found here
Tyler is blocked by McCann…obviously. I know we have traded away our depth at C in the last few years, but the Braves could still have their dream OF in a couple of years and land Peavy. Gorkys is normally ranked a little higher, and the lists that I have seen; he is listed as a 4 star prospect. I wouldn’t have an issue including Tyler instead of Gorkys.
By Coach ( Skip and Pete will be missed)
November 12, 2008 5:54 AM | Link to this
If Ken Rosenthal’s article is accurate and I have doubts that it is, somebody needs his head examined. For anyone to say that Brent Lillibridge is capable of playing the same caliber of defense attributed to Yunel Escobar is patently ridiculous. We all know that Yunel is the best athlete and defender on the Braves roster.
As far as the Padres conduct goes in negotiations thus far…
It smacks of nepotism on the part of their front office to keep jerking the Braves around. If anyone is aware of the situation in San Diego involving the treatment of Trevor Hoffman then one can begin to understand what the Braves are dealing with.
These people are lunatics. The impending divorce of John Moore has created chaos in the Padres front office and it’s already having repercussions for the Braves. I have to wonder how it is affecting the trade of Jake Peavy.
By BrandonC
November 12, 2008 5:56 AM | Link to this
I actually like the idea of putting Flowers in the deal instead of Hernandez. People make the argument to switch him or McCann to 1B to get there bats in the lineup, but people are forgetting about Freddie Freeman. Even though it will be a couple of years before he comes up, I think he is our future at 1b. I didn’t like the idea of putting Gorkys in the trade anyway, I think he is going to be a stud for sure. If the Pads really want Flowers instead of Gorkys, DO IT.
Of course Rosenthal could be wrong, the Pads might want Flowers AND Gorkys to which I say forget about it.
By Robert
November 12, 2008 6:14 AM | Link to this
I’ll say once again the Braves are offering too much for Peavy. I can’t see giving up Escobar. It wont matter who’s pitching if we have no defense on the left side of the IF. I’ve said before there are plenty of good, young arms that should be available for less. Look at Tampa. Do you not think at least one of their ML pitchers are available? They have 3 of the top arms in the minors ready for prime time. Sonnanstine would probably be available. He’s a ground ball pitcher that would give us around 200 innings. Guthrie from Balt could also be available for lesser talented players. Add these two with JJ, Hanson, and a LHP and the Braves would staff would compare to the 90’s for a lot less money. Wren is more concerned about making a splash in the public’s eyes than building this team the right way. Let’s not forget the Tex trade, or lack of, this past summer.
By TheAntiMe
November 12, 2008 6:20 AM | Link to this
If Kevin Towers is trying to play chicken with Frank Wren, the Braves GM should drop some very subtle hints that - not only are they not going to get Tommy Hanson - but Jordan Schafer or Gorkys Hernandez will be taken off of the trading block and be replaced by Josh Anderson or Brandon Jones.
Towers needs to get real since everyone in the freaking galaxy knows that Peavy has to go. Towers even admitted as much earlier this week.
Thanks, DOB, for giving Gordon Lightfoot some virtual air time. Carefree Highway is my 2nd favorite Gordon Lightfoot song. My favorite one, actually, is The Wreck Of The Edmund Fitzgerald. I know, I guess I’m kind of morbid but that is a very good tune. Sundown works nicely, as well.
It’s kind of funny how Mr. Lightfoot could write such a happy-sounding tune as “Carefree” (although the lyrics aren’t quite so happy as the music would suggest)as well as something so tragic as “Edmund Fitzgerald”. I guess that’s part of being a legendary Folk singer.
By Bravo Nam
November 12, 2008 6:33 AM | Link to this
DOB
Thanks for your encouragement. I know you’ll continue to give great coverage on the Bravos and Moylesy. You’re welcome to pass my email address (justinhart@hotmail.com) on to him, and if he’d like to drop a line, it’d be great to hear from him.
By the way, forgot to mention I loved your choice of song/artist: Gordon Lightfoot…as I see many others did as well (seems like a lot of old-timers on the blog).
BravesAC
“you won’t read that book again because the hero would be me”. Yes, this line is indeed from If You Could Read My Mind. That song has so many great lines.
UGA Brave
If You Could Read My Mind is also my fave Gordon Lightfoot song. Like you delighted by the Hawks and Falcs starts. Unbelievable to think that this time last year both franchises were on the scrap heap…and a few months ago the Bravos were stinking up the joint…with some strategic moves by Frank Wren we might finally see a golden period, at the same time, for all three franchises (all have good young players and sound management)…now about those Thrashers…
By Johgn
November 12, 2008 7:23 AM | Link to this
Just watched the Peavy highlights on the Padres website and he is filthy. There is one highlight in which he strikes out 13 guys. Who do we have on our current staff that can go out and do that save maybe Huddy when he’s healthy.
By Elmer
November 12, 2008 7:27 AM | Link to this
The team should keep Schafer at least. He has the power lacking in the current outfield.
By 18 Wheels of Love
November 12, 2008 7:35 AM | Link to this
Coach, couldn’t agree more!
And subbing Flowers for Gorkys is great for us! Flowers isn’t going to play anywhere for us unless the NL adds the DH. I say give ‘em Flowers/Esco/JoJo and hopefully be done with it. Maybe you include Locke i they push it but I still think that is a decent deal.
Flowers is no different than Andy Marte and Salty - blocked by an All-Star at their position.
By Salty Dawg
November 12, 2008 8:12 AM | Link to this
Jeff Passan has a pretty good article [here](http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=jp-peavyupdate111108&prov=yhoo&type=lgns about the current Peavy situation as it relates to te Braves. One quote from FW: “We’re not going to make a deal just to make a deal and make a big splash…If you surround that quality player with less talent, you’re doing yourself a disservice.”
By Original Jon
November 12, 2008 8:19 AM | Link to this
If it’s Flowers instead of Gorkys, then it most definitely should be Reyes instead of Morton. No way you give up Morton, Flowers, and Escobar for Peavy.
How about Flowers is the best part of the package here, like, Flowers, Morton and KJ or Lillibridge
By Efrim
November 12, 2008 8:22 AM | Link to this
I don’t know folks. I really like Tyler Flowers. It makes sense that the Padres are waking up and asking for him. There is no reason they shouldn’t want him. So now, it is:
Escobar, Flowers, Morton and another player? I say if we sub Flowers for Hernandez, then the Padres don’t get that other player.
By Serge
November 12, 2008 8:28 AM | Link to this
Lili is the superior defender, this is why you are seing it reported, and this is why Lillibridge will be playing SS in Atlanta and Escobar in San Diego
By Don't Trade Franceour, Sheesh
November 12, 2008 8:29 AM | Link to this
If the Padres want Flowers, Wren should take Escobar out of the deal. Make it look something like:
C/1B Flowers RHP Morton OF Hernandez P TBA for P Peavy
Or at the very worst, Escobar and Flowers for Peavy and a 1B or SS prospect.
By TN Johnson
November 12, 2008 8:32 AM | Link to this
DOB:
Longtime reader. I enjoy your sports and musical insights. I have two questions:
What do you feel is Flowers ETA to the big leagues, and if the Braves keep him, then where does he play?
Black Rebel Motorcycle Club is not a new band, but a new one to me. Heard of them? Thoughts?
By Shaun
November 12, 2008 8:33 AM | Link to this
All that info, occupying brain space that could otherwise be utilized for storing valuable VORP figures (OK, getting a lot of mileage out of condescending VORP references. My bad.)
One should probably know what VORP is before they make references to it.
By FaninFaytown
November 12, 2008 8:35 AM | Link to this
If they want flowers then we give them 3 players. Period.
By Why?
November 12, 2008 8:44 AM | Link to this
Shaun: No one really cares what VORP is but you…
By Dadgum
November 12, 2008 8:47 AM | Link to this
No way Frank Wren is trading 4 players for Peavy if Escobar and Hernandez are supposedly two of the players. It ain’t happening and my guess is that with Towers asking for Locke as a 4th player well that is where the waiting game is taking place.
Musically, many blogs ago I mentioned a group named Seatrain. These guys were a 70’s group with grass roots in the college scene at the time. They were poised to be a super group but it didn’t happen due to, well, 70’s stuff if you know what I mean. Anyway I mention them because not sure many here outside myself and Lew have ever heard of them. Suffice it to say their lineage and sound is similar in a lot of respects to early REM. Probably worth a Google. Just passing it on.
Rock on….never get ripe.
By Voice from the past
November 12, 2008 8:48 AM | Link to this
To briefly go back to the guitar talk, this is an amazing player.
Now, back to the regularly scheduled Peavy circus.
By TheAntiMe
November 12, 2008 8:58 AM | Link to this
You know, I’d love to have Peavy just as much as anyone else but… if we have to give up half of the farm system to get him then it would be very unwise to trade for him.
You know what they say. Some of the best trades are the ones that were never made.
By Fan
November 12, 2008 9:04 AM | Link to this
AH, my apologies DOB, Gaslight Anthem was the reference. Have not heard of them will fire up Rhapsody tonight and take a listen.
LOVED Grant Lee Buffalo - Favorite song of theirs “Homespun” - must hit play as you’re leaving the on ramp to the Highway. He did a solo album that I liked that was a tribute to all the music artists that influenced him. That’s solid.
Bravo’s talk: Stud Catchers are indeed Rare. We can hold onto Flowers and let him grow into a one for one trade for a pitching/corner 3B spot in two years?
Yunel & Flowers for Peavy reminds me of Jacoby & Butler for Len Barker. Not comparing stats, just a legit everyday guy and a stud prospect for a good pitcher Peavy is far better than Barker, but the context is in my head and it feels risky - regrettable.
Besides, who are we up against? Gorky’s, Morton and Yunel, Towers will not do better than that. And if keeps holding us out won’t Wren bail and go and try and get two different FA SP’s?
By Roach
November 12, 2008 9:06 AM | Link to this
Anti,
We arent giving up half the farm system. The positions we are giving we are deep except SS. Our pitching depth is remarkable in the minors. Losing Morton/ Reyes/Locke really wont affect us. Gorkys or Schafer take your pick both will be good.
By I Can't Believe He Said It
November 12, 2008 9:07 AM | Link to this
Shaun (to DOB): One should probably know what VORP is before they make references to it.
You have VORPed up now!
By Roach
November 12, 2008 9:11 AM | Link to this
People the thing is there is no gaurantee that we are going to get the FA’s we speak of. If the peavy deal doesnt go down then we have to sign two FA’s what if they dont want to sign here then what do we do. Pray to god we get Peavy. If not we might not get anybody!!!!
By DAP
November 12, 2008 9:13 AM | Link to this
coach i think everyone here knew that lincecum was a very good pitcher last off season. we already knew, but youre right, you did tell us!
also, i think what put lincecum over santna (and webb) was his W-L record, but more than that, his strikeouts. lincecum blew santna and webb out of the water when it came to K’s. with everything else fairly close, that won out.
By Patrick
November 12, 2008 9:16 AM | Link to this
Jeez, come on Pads. You are in a state of disarray. Stop revising proposals before you get stuck with an unhappy Peavy who now doesn’t have his friend Hoffman.
By DAP
November 12, 2008 9:25 AM | Link to this
im not sure, but i dont think smoltx has a changeup he uses. also, im pretty sure hudson never has a changeup until he came to atlanta and developed one.
i say that to say, a pitcher doesnt HAVE to have a changeup…but it couldnt hurt.
by the way, if the pads want tyler flowers, then they dont get escobar. trade flowers, gorkys, morton, and locke/cole r. id be ok with that.
By don
November 12, 2008 9:28 AM | Link to this
This is beginning to sound like a repeat of the Teixeira fiasco. There is no remote guarantee that Peavy will make any more difference in the team’s record than did Teixeira and that was nothing.
Don’t empty the prospect pool just to make a trade. You should have learned when you got robbed by the Rangers.
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 12, 2008 9:32 AM | Link to this
Trade McCann for Cain? AH-hahahahaha!! That’s a good joke!
But seriously…Salty Dawg is right: McCann would most likely be the last person they trade. Not to mention the Giants aren’t trading Cain.
You can’t trade away young, proven, Major League, Silver Sluggerin’ 3-time All-Stars so an A-ball player that’s never tasted the Major Leagues cann take his place. Haha…it just don’t happen!
Deep Throat You remind me of those people here that were suggesting the Braves trade McCann and keep Saltalamacchia during the Teixeira trade talks (seriously, some here were saying that. Look at some of the Braves/MIB blogs in July 2007.
I believe ya. And where are those people now, eh?
Haha…The Braves had just signed McCann to a six-year deal! Yeah. They were really gonna trade—OK, I’m going off on a tangent here…
Salty D McCann is a cornerstone you build a team around. He is one of the few legitimate all stars we have on the team, he is a fan favorite
That’s for darn sure! If the Braves were dumb enough to ditch him for some minor leaguer, I might not go to any games that year. (Oh yeah, that would hurt them, right? But I’m sure there’d be some other fanns who’d do the same.)
And the people saying that they should move McCann to first need to read Ms. Rogers’ article. McCann said he wants to spend his whole career behind the plate. And he’s gonna work on his defense as much as his offense! You wait and see! He’s workin’ out…Huh—he’s no Andruw Jones it appears…
By TheAntiMe
November 12, 2008 9:35 AM | Link to this
Roach
All I’m saying is that we would be unwise to cave in to Kevin Towers and give up Yunel Escobar, in additon to Gorkys Hernandez/Jordan Schafer, Charlie Morton/JoJo Reyes, and Cole Rohrbough/Jeff Locke.
I just feel that Y. Escobar, Gorkys H., and C. Morton should be the most that Frank Wren considers giving up for J. Peavy.
By BB FAN
November 12, 2008 9:36 AM | Link to this
If the report that Towers is now asking for Flowers is true, Wren should really start discussions with TB for Jackson, SF for Cain, and/or KC for Greinke.
Towers needs to realize that he has no leverage. If reports are true that SDs payroll needs to go down to the $35-40 million mark, Towers has to trade Peavy who will make $11 million next year. Peavy has a no trade clause and he has already said he will only go to 5-7 teams. Only 2 of those teams have anything close to the value Towers wants back. Wren really needs to remember this as well.
I starting to think Wren should go in another direction.
By BB FAN
November 12, 2008 9:45 AM | Link to this
I just don’t believe the Braves should make moves just because they have the money to spend. If the right guys are not available without giving up the farm system, then they need to wait.
Think about the Teixeira trade. It was pitching JS wanted, but could not find it so he “settled” on Tex. If JS had waited until the off season, he could have had Danny Haren for the package he sent to Texas for Tex. And he did the trade despite knowing Tex was a Boras guy and just turned down ~ 8 years, ~ $150 million from Texas for an extension. He made the trade to just make a trade and it cost the Braves dearly.
Maybe the Braves should not make any trades yet and see if they can sign two starters and a left fielder. There are plenty of starters out there and Juan Rivera, Raul Ibanez, Milton Bradley, among others for Left Field. Maybe signing some 1-2 year guys and seeing how the kids develop over the next year is the better way to go. I’m not saying that is the way to go for sure ,but I would hate to give up the farm for just one pitcher. Of course, the need to win in 09 will make Wren do something significant.
By rammerjammer
November 12, 2008 9:51 AM | Link to this
The Gordon Lightfoot talk reminded me of this: www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSThKFtOC48
By Thrillhouse44
November 12, 2008 9:52 AM | Link to this
It’s amazing that some people tend to value Flowers over Escobar. I’d much rather keep Esco and trade the minor league catcher who is blocked by a perennial all-star.
On a lighter note: If I’m Escobar and I’m traded to the Padres, I make tons of “Who’s your Padre?” comments on my way out the door.
By steven
November 12, 2008 9:55 AM | Link to this
Wren be bold. They are playing the Cubs against Wren. Wren needs to say 24 hours and then we pull the offer and move to the free agent market. Hes not getting a better deal from us, and no other clubs will offer this good a deal. Wren needs to let em know, trade or move on and then do it.
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 12, 2008 10:05 AM | Link to this
Thrillhouse44 I’d much rather keep Esco and trade the minor league catcher who is blocked by a perennial all-star.
Me, too!
Course, then there’d be more competition out there for our perennial All-Star to continue his run…
; )
By LT-A blogger
November 12, 2008 10:06 AM | Link to this
I was for the Peavy trade before I was against it. Then I changed my mind and was for it again. With Towers now wanting Flowers, I’m against it again. Maybe I should apply for GM of the Padres when Towers is invevitably fired.
I’m not so much against it now because I think it’d be a bad trade, but because Towers has gone from playing a game of high stakes poker to acting like a total b1tch.
FW- walk away from the table and let Towers have those Cubbies. I promise- no true Braves fan following this saga is gonna blame you one bit- not one iota.
By ncscoots
November 12, 2008 10:07 AM | Link to this
Jeez, are you guys kidding me? Give Towers Gorkys AND Flowers, and take Escobar off the table. What do you say the Braves try to keep a guy who can actually HELP the team in the near future?
Lillibridge a “superior” defender? Please. Nothing wrong with the Small Bridge’s glove, but let’s drop back to reality here.
By Lew
November 12, 2008 10:09 AM | Link to this
Waiting for this deal is starting to get to people. bubdylan wants DOB to print the lyrics to Every Rose Has It’s Thorn, Coach is extolling the spit ball and Shaun still doesn’t VORPing get it. Yet another day in the neighborhood.
Adirondack Dave-Where you been? You doing all right?
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 12, 2008 10:09 AM | Link to this
Uh-oh…it’s spreading!
In the comments under an article on the “Official Site”:
Peavy is a top 10 in the game starter. His ERA+ is great his VORP is even better!
It must be a good stat…I mean, so many on this Blog swear by it……
; >
By Braveheart
November 12, 2008 10:12 AM | Link to this
Here’s an article on Neftali Feliz:
http://rangersblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2008/11/conditioning-camp-notebook-chat-with-nef.html
With the help of the Rangers’ Spanish language radio oracle Eleno Ornelas, I visited with RHP Nefali Feliz for about fifteen minutes yesterday. After the jump, I’ll share some highlights of that chat:
First of all, for those of you who haven’t seen him in person yet, I’ll try to paint a picture of the kid: If he had been born in the United States, he would probably be the quarterback at LSU right now. He’s stands 6’3” and is a rock-solid 215 lbs. with long arms and big hands. He looks like a tremendous athlete.
Feliz comes off as being mature and extremely confident — he maintains eye contact at all times — and seems completely at ease talking to anyone, which isn’t always the case with the kids in his age group who don’t speak much English yet.
He’s very self-assured, but also smart enough to stick to the Crash Davis textbook when responding to questions about himself, although he does so with a bit of a smile and a wink.
Feliz talked about his three week stint at Fall Instructional League where his chief focus was working on throwing from the stretch and holding runners. The problem was that throughout his three or four appearances during games, he only allowed “two or three” baserunners. So he had to pretend there were runners on base most of the time, attempting to pick off ghosts leading off of first. He felt he made a lot of progress and knew he needed the work.
Dominican Winter League teams sought his services this winter and Feliz asked the Rangers for permission to pitch at home, but was denied because the organization felt that his leap in innings from 2007 (42.1) to 2008 (127.1) warranted some down time. He won’t start throwing again until the beginning of the year.
I also asked the 20 year old Feliz some questions about the President of the Texas Rangers who, it is rumored, is quite enamored of the young man’s ability to deal triple-digit cheese at the knees on the outside corner.
By RC
November 12, 2008 10:14 AM | Link to this
To everyone saying Wren needs to set a deadline for Padres, he already has. He told them if a deal isn’t accepted by Friday, the Braves will move on to other possibilities. Anything more than that is a dumb move because he’d be painting himself into a corner.
By DAP
November 12, 2008 10:14 AM | Link to this
yes! if they want flowers they can have him, but pull back escobar!! flowers, morton, gorkys, locke! two prospects at least a year away, one several years away and one MLB ready pitcher. if they want flowers so bad, they will do it.
the pads ar going to be bad next year anyways. they are counting on it. i dont even know why they want ANY MLB position players (escobar).
i always thought the braves were going to get this deal done with good minor league prospects, not major league talent. i hope it ends up that way.
flowers, gorkys, morton, locke!
By Bill
November 12, 2008 10:15 AM | Link to this
Catcher & SS are two of the most difficult positions to fill. If I were the Braves I would hold onto Flowers one more season and see how things go with McCann. If he is going to be a monster player, I would consider trading McCann, not that I would like to see him traded. If the Braves can get a top of the rotation pitcher for Flowers, trade him now.
By DAP
November 12, 2008 10:19 AM | Link to this
mcfann so many on this Blog swear by it……
such a good line, it took me a second to get it! very nice. im actually impressed with that one. good job.
By Braveheart
November 12, 2008 10:21 AM | Link to this
Serge, did you notice that the Yahoo article called Kelly Johnson “slick fielding”? Did you get a good laugh out of that or did you say, well, since, I saw it online from a member of the media, it must be true.
By Braveheart
November 12, 2008 10:22 AM | Link to this
Well. that didn’t format right with Feliz. Anyways, you got the link if you care to read it.
By TommyP
November 12, 2008 10:23 AM | Link to this
There’s beating a dead horse and then there’s this Peavy discussion. We can only say the same things over and over. Been very brutal lately.
Perhaps the end of the week will end the Peavy talk.
By Steve from OH
November 12, 2008 10:23 AM | Link to this
I agree with the general blog sentiment about Flowers. If I’m FW, I tell him he can either have Esco/Gorkys/JoJo OR Flowers/Hernandez/Morton/Medlen. Pick one (like, right now, or by the end of the day) or go VORP yourself.
By Voice from the past
November 12, 2008 10:23 AM | Link to this
flowers, gorkys, morton, locke
Too much. Period.
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 12, 2008 10:28 AM | Link to this
Bill If he is going to be a monster player, I would consider trading McCann…
Whoa, dude! Take it back!
“See how things go with”— What? A 3-time All-Star and soon-to-be 2-time Silver Slugger isn’t good enough?
DAP—
Thanks!
By David O'Brien
November 12, 2008 10:31 AM | Link to this
Lincecum honestly looks younger than any college kid who gets interviewed after a game. He looks like a high-schooler, especially wearing his alt-rock-dude wardrobe. Then they show footage of him pitching and he’s this 165-pound dominant beast. Gotta love it….
Oh, and by the way: The Braves aren’t trading McCann.
By David O'Brien
November 12, 2008 10:36 AM | Link to this
This is beginning to sound like a repeat of the Teixeira fiasco. There is no remote guarantee that Peavy will make any more difference in the team’s record than did Teixeira and that was nothing.Don
Yeah, sounding like the Teixeira trade. Right. The Braves gave up five prospects for Tex, who was represented by Scott Boras and was pretty much set on testing the free-agent market after three months and one more season with the Braves.
They’re giving up one player and two prospects (probably) for Peavy, who is under contract for at least four more years, or five if the Braves exercise the option in 2013.
Wait, explain to me again how this would be a repeat of the Tex trade?
By Shaun
November 12, 2008 10:37 AM | Link to this
This is beginning to sound like a repeat of the Teixeira fiasco. There is no remote guarantee that Peavy will make any more difference in the team’s record than did Teixeira and that was nothing.
Really? The Braves would have won no more games with Scott Thorman or Julio Franco or Saltalamacchia playing firstbase instead of Teixeira?
By RC
November 12, 2008 10:37 AM | Link to this
In an effort to end the Peavy talk, who do the Braves take with their high first round pick in the draft? Pitcher or hitter? If a hitter, any particular position that people would like to see targeted?
By AdirondackDave
November 12, 2008 10:37 AM | Link to this
Sure would hate to the Braves put Flowers in the Peavy trade with Escobar and Shafer/hernandez. Flowers may be the piece we need to unlock a power outfielder or a second quality young pitcher. I would let him continue to develop through spring training and early ‘09. If his progress continues, he could/should be wanted by many teams. Looks like he may our best position player asset in the minors.
However, if the Padres absolutely want Flowers, pull Escober out of the deal and maybe add Locke. If that doesn’t work, it’s still very early, lots of time to trade elsewhere and/or spend that $40-50M for free agents.
By David O'Brien
November 12, 2008 10:41 AM | Link to this
TN Johnson, Flowers could possibly reach the majors this season if something happened to McCann and he was going to be out a month or two. But that’s pushing it. Otherwise, I’d say a year or two from now would be the likely ETA for him, for a team that needs a catcher.
Don’t know where he fits for the Braves, who have no plans to move him to first base (and he has no desire to move, either. Loves to catch.)
Frankly, I’m sure the Braves will get trade offers for him , if not now then later, and he could end up being a big piece in a deal. But you just never know what’s gonna happen.
Black Rebel Motorcycle Club is a fine band. Got three of the CDs, and saw them with the Kings of Leon at the Fox Theatre a year or so ago.
By RC
November 12, 2008 10:48 AM | Link to this
According to Ken Rosenthal the Padres are requesting the Braves place Flowers in their offer in place of Gorkys. Considering Gorkys is already exibiting 3 plus tools (speed, defense, arm) vs. Flowers 1 plus tool (hit for power), and the fact the Braves are weak in OF and Flowers is blocked by McCann, if I am the Braves I’m happily making this sub. Based on what I know of the two players, I’d rather keep Gorkys than Flowers anyway.
By Steve from OH
November 12, 2008 10:49 AM | Link to this
Lest I be accused of being a “prospect-hugger” again, I would like to point out that I would be very reluctant to include Locke in a deal. I love the kid’s makeup and potential (power lefty…what’s not to like?). If it keeps Esco out of a deal, of course you do it, but definitely not in the same deal as Esco. Same for Flowers.
By E-Money
November 12, 2008 10:50 AM | Link to this
Just heard on ESPN Radio a new “rumor” floating about that the Braves and Padres have discussed a B-Mac, Kotchman, and Jeff Locke for Peavy, Adrian Gonzalez, and OF prospect Cedric Hunter (ATL native) trade! This needs to get completed today! Pull the trigger FW!
By DAP
November 12, 2008 10:50 AM | Link to this
voice from the past
flowers, gorkys, morton, locke
Too much. Period.
really? a catcher at least a year away who is blocked by a perrennial allstar signed for the next 5 years, a speed outfielder without power who is at least a year away, a AAAA pitcher who could be very good but is still figuring thing out (we have alot of those, if you havent noticed) and a hard throwing lefty who is a good prospect but is still several years away. thats to much.
thats perfect trade, voice. all of those guys are expendable. they are either blocked or eaily replacable, and it doesnt effect our major league roster. except maybe morton.
what part of that proposal do you not like?
By rotty
November 12, 2008 10:53 AM | Link to this
There is no way Wren should trade Escobar and Flowers in the same deal.
What is Towers doing reading the AJC and this blog randomly adding a new guy to his wish list? All of the sudden he has to have Towers. Come on.
DOB do an web article on ROBO today and watch this meat puppet say he cannot live w/o ROBO in the trade.
Time to wheel out the bird and a few other off color hand signs for this bozo.
If you want Flowers forget Escobar - should be the reply.
Flowers can either contribute to the major league club in 09/10 or be the key piece of the next trade but you don’t shoot your wad on one pitcher.
So while this is not a Tex trade it is in the running. Not re: the time we have with Peavy or hois agent but the other potential trades we can’t make with Flowers as part of the deal.
Wren made an offer and he should stick to it. This is all bs because if the Cubs had a better deal it would have been done by now.
:)
By AdirondackDave
November 12, 2008 10:56 AM | Link to this
Hi Lew — yes, all is well here. Hope you are as well. My brain has lately been wrapped around the presidential race. Still euphoric…
Getting ready to head out for Atlanta and Thanksgiving with family inc. grandson Jack who was bowled over by the Chipper painting. This year we are bringing him a signed Chipper bat that we got at a spring training ‘08 charity auction when the Braves were in south Florida for a couple days.
I noticed your ice cream comment a day or two ago… what, no Ben & Jerry’s?
What’s your take on Flowers, trade him now, trade him a little later, or keep him? If it’s keep him, who changes position?
By Patrick
November 12, 2008 10:58 AM | Link to this
DOB, in your opinion, don’t you think Flowers instead of Hernandez or Schafer is actually better for the Braves, considering our OF situation and McCann at Catcher?
By brian
November 12, 2008 10:59 AM | Link to this
DOB - about the headline on ESPN - Braves and Padres are trying to bring in a 3rd team to help satisfy the Padres pitching demand???? Do you know what is the holdup? Would the Padres be willing to take what pitching the Braves could swap Escobar or KJ for versus taking Escobar, the best player offered to the Padres that we know about?
By JC from UT
November 12, 2008 11:00 AM | Link to this
DOB: Has it been mentioned if any other lower level player would be coming to Atlanta along with Peavy? Say Towers wants the 4th player included could FW ask for someone like Cla Meredith or at least a AA prospect?
By Bubdylan
November 12, 2008 11:05 AM | Link to this
RC I would think putting Flowers in Gorkys’ place would be pretty pleasing to the Padres fans (well, if those poor folks can find a bright side at all). It’s always nice to get a big lumberjack power dude. For the reasons you stated, I agree we should do it, if that’s the deal-maker.
By Buffalo NY Braves Fan
November 12, 2008 11:06 AM | Link to this
The longer this gets drawn out, the less likely it is to get done with Atlanta. The Cubs are trying to find a 3rd team to fill SD’s pitching request.
As far as “sticking to an offer” thats not how trades are done and thats not how business is done. You throw some names back and forth, try to improve the deal a little more for your side, and see what happens.
Ask for a lot, get a little….. ask for a little, get nothing….
By Don't Trade Franceour, Sheesh
November 12, 2008 11:08 AM | Link to this
Confused as to why it seems most everyone is ready to toss poor Chuck Morton out the window… I got to see him pitch a little last year with Richmond and he made opposing hitters look like feeble children. His non-dominating, finesse game may take a little time to adjust to the higher level of MLB batters, but I am pretty sure he is going to come around and prove to be a very, very succsesful professional pitcher.
Jo-Jo, on the other hand, is merely left-handed and can throw it hard. Not to marginalize that ability, but not as impressive as Morton’s.
By David O'Brien
November 12, 2008 11:09 AM | Link to this
DOB - about the headline on ESPN - Braves and Padres are trying to bring in a 3rd team to help satisfy the Padres pitching demand???? Do you know what is the holdup?Brian
Yeah, trying to find a third team that fits is the holdup. (And it’s the Cubs/Pads trying to find third team, not Braves/Padres).
There’s a reason that three-team trades are so rare in baseball. They’re complicated and unwiedly. One team usually ends up having to trade away more players than they would if they just did a two-team deal, since one team usually ends up sending a player or two in both directions.
By JimD
November 12, 2008 11:09 AM | Link to this
Brain DOB - about the headline on ESPN - Braves and Padres are trying to bring in a 3rd team to help satisfy the Padres pitching demand????
Brian, what I read in ESPN was the the Pads and Cubs were talking three team trade, not the Braves.
By RC
November 12, 2008 11:09 AM | Link to this
I love how suddenly everyone wants Flowers included on our “untouchables” list. Let’s be realistic: He doesn’t have an obvious place to play on the MLB club for the foreseeable future (there’s an oxymoron) and has a lower upside than the prospect the Pads want him to replace in the deal (Gorkys). If I’m the Braves I act like I’m reluctant to trade Flowers just to see if I can get the Pads to agree 3 players instead of the 4 we supposedly offered, and then make the deal. Flowers is having a great season in the AFL. Awesome. Use his “man of the moment” status to get something substainial in return, while retaining a BETTER prospect who can fill a team need within 2 years (OF and leadoff man).
By RC
November 12, 2008 11:09 AM | Link to this
I love how suddenly everyone wants Flowers included on our “untouchables” list. Let’s be realistic: He doesn’t have an obvious place to play on the MLB club for the foreseeable future (there’s an oxymoron) and has a lower upside than the prospect the Pads want him to replace in the deal (Gorkys). If I’m the Braves I act like I’m reluctant to trade Flowers just to see if I can get the Pads to agree 3 players instead of the 4 we supposedly offered, and then make the deal. Flowers is having a great season in the AFL. Awesome. Use his “man of the moment” status to get something substainial in return, while retaining a BETTER prospect who can fill a team need within 2 years (OF and leadoff man).
By jukeandjive
November 12, 2008 11:10 AM | Link to this
It seems to me that we’re at the place where we are about to start bidding against ourselves. The Cubs offer is nowhere close, and now Towers wants flowers? Ridiculous! To me it’s: Escobar OR Flowers, not both. Unless they’re the only two involved on the deal. Let’s get this done yesterday!!!
By AdirondackDave
November 12, 2008 11:12 AM | Link to this
RC — You may not be giving enough potential credit to Flowers. By your definition, Howard would also be a 1+ player. Would you trade him if he was Braves firstbaseman?
By Braveheart
November 12, 2008 11:12 AM | Link to this
DOB needs to start talking more about Jeff Bennett, Manny Acosta and Blaine Boyer. Towers might want them too
By LT-A blogger
November 12, 2008 11:13 AM | Link to this
E-Money, you gotta be kidding or can’t believe that. FW may be many things but idiot is not one of them.
By wiki
November 12, 2008 11:13 AM | Link to this
GSU-Lee: I echo DOBs sentiments about Social D. I first knew of them with “White Light” when they released “I Was Wrong” and it had some commercial success a while back (maybe ‘96 or so). In fact “Bad Luck” is my ringtone. Not by any means is it my theme song, I just like the tune.
I’ve never commented about music on this blog but my musical interests fall somewhere between Todd Rundgren, Parliament, Midnight Oil, and Q-Tip and DOBs musical library dwarfs mine. My database has increased quite a bit thanks to this blog. If you are interested in and passionate about music, you’d be well served to take note of DOBs opinions and recommendations. You may not like them all but I’d guarantee you’d find some gems in the mix.
By the way, loved it when Lincecum yelled “whoo hoo!”. Fits him perfectly.
By Bubdylan
November 12, 2008 11:14 AM | Link to this
Time for Wren to break out the I drink your milkshake speech on Towers. He can start by making Towers recite “There is no Cubs offer and the Dodgers trade was a superstition!” louder and louder.
By Buffalo NY Braves Fan
November 12, 2008 11:17 AM | Link to this
RC,
I agree with everyone jumping on Tyler Flowers as an “untouchable” thats hilarious.
The guy is blocked at C, and will be for a while. The Braves aren’t moving him to 1B and he doesn’t want to. That just SCREAMS trade bait.
Not to mention, if I remember correctly…. last year there was a young kid who tore up the AFL and we were all hoping he would take over CF for the Braves this year…. and currently those same people who were excited about him are now willing to throw him in a trade to get Peavy….
Anyone remember who that CF was?
By jhughes
November 12, 2008 11:20 AM | Link to this
dob are the braves at all interested in casey blake? he could play outfield and back up chipper
By JimD
November 12, 2008 11:25 AM | Link to this
*Anyone remember who that CF was? *
Rowland Office?
By 18 Wheels of Love
November 12, 2008 11:27 AM | Link to this
Oooooh, Midnight Oil! My all-time favorite! Peter Garrett is on my ‘I would like to have dinner with’ list.
By RC
November 12, 2008 11:27 AM | Link to this
AdirondackDave,
From what I’ve read about Flowers, he doesn’t project to be a Ryan Howard type hitter. A lot of value is based around him being a catcher…if he’s moved to 1b (which he would have to be on the Braves, barring injury to McCann) his projection is not nearly as valuable. Gorkys projects as a 40 SB, .300 AVG, above average defensive CF. Those are MUCH more rare (and needed by the Braves) than power hitting 1b prospects.
By chuckw/deadjournalist
November 12, 2008 11:32 AM | Link to this
I almost don’t even want to ask this, but since there is now a lot of talk about the Padres now trading Brian Giles, would the Braves have any interest in his as part of an expanded package?
I think a lot of people have the same worry I do about trading Tyler Flowers - and it’s because of the power potential. The Braves have traded Salty and Max Ramirez from their catching stock-pile in the last few years (just as they traded Kelly Mann years ago in advance of Javy Lopez) and thus far I don’t think anyone can have issue that the Braves haven’t made the right talent evaluation choices. While Salty and Ramirez are drawing interest around baseball, they have yet to perform at the major league level.
But there is something about a potential trade of Flowers that unnerves me. Is there a tangible argument I can make as to why he shouldn’t be included in a fair trade for a player who would make the Braves better? No. But still …
By DAP
November 12, 2008 11:35 AM | Link to this
dont trade francouer Confused as to why it seems most everyone is ready to toss poor Chuck Morton out the window
i think you are misunderstanding. nobody..well maybe not nobody, but most people who talk about trading a certain player want to trade him because they suck. thats not the only reason guys get traded. in fact, that usually the last reason guys get traded. bloggers here are just trying to put together a proposal that is realistic. its not realistic, and there fore not fun to think of a bunch of players the braves dont want for a very very good trade.
so anyways, when people talk about trading a player, its not because they dont like that player.
by the way, jojo doesnt throw THAT hard. and he has pretty good stuff.
By Spud Webb
November 12, 2008 11:36 AM | Link to this
DO NOT SIGN BURNETT. The guys arm can fall off at any givin time. Wicked, wicked stuff but look at the career stats for the guy. NOT WORTH the 12 Million or more he wants. Get Peavy and thats a great starting place.
By 18 Wheels of Love
November 12, 2008 11:36 AM | Link to this
Folks, we’ve been down this road before. Learn from history.
Marte - blocked by Chipper. Traded to the Red Sox. Saltalamacchia - blocked by McCann. Could have been moved to 1B but more valuable as a C. Traded to Texas. Flowers - blocked by McCann. Wants to stay a C and is more valuable to us a C. Will be traded.
And you don’t hold on to Flowers ‘in case McCann gets hurt’. Not if it keeps you from losing Peavy.
By Johgn
November 12, 2008 11:37 AM | Link to this
Trade Flowers, Keep Gorkys. DOB, any truth to that rumor involving Mac and Kotchman?
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 12, 2008 11:38 AM | Link to this
Flowers could possibly reach the majors this season if something happened to McCann and he was going to be out a month or two.
Good VORP…please, no…
By Saltywoody
November 12, 2008 11:41 AM | Link to this
Braveheart
I agree. DOB needs to start writing articles like mad about Bennett, Acosta, and Thorman. Praise the crap out of them.
Then the Pads would surely do a Peavy for Bennet/Acosta/Thorman deal.
By ncscoots
November 12, 2008 11:42 AM | Link to this
currently those same people who were excited about him are now willing to throw him in a trade to get Peavy
Not all, my friend, not all. And I’m betting that most of those “same people” haven’t seen the kid play. Folks who anoint players with little substantial information tend to reject them pretty easily, too. Nature of the fan.
By AdirondackDave
November 12, 2008 11:44 AM | Link to this
RC — I think you might be underestimated Flower’s offensive potential. Yes, it’s only potential at this point but he’s been showing real progress and if it continues, he will be a mighty valuable chip. His value is not because he is a catcher…it is because he is a catcher with awesome hitting potential.
That’s my take anyway and that’s why I would prefer to hold him out of a Peavy deal and use as a chip in a deal for a power outfielder or second quality young starter. Wren may well be able to get Peavy without including Flowers, hope so.
By Bubdylan
November 12, 2008 11:47 AM | Link to this
Good VORP…please, no… -McFann
Have we really coined a word that substitutes for both the Lord and the F-bomb? Samuel Johnson’s turning over in his grave.
By Bill
November 12, 2008 11:48 AM | Link to this
E-Money—-if this is true, pull the trigger now. Probably another false rumor.
By rammerjammer
November 12, 2008 11:49 AM | Link to this
I am having serious doubts that this deal will get done.
SD has needlessly complicated matters - first, switching Flowers for Gorkys, and second, looking for another arm from another team - and now they’re frantically trying to pull something together in the next 48 hours.
What’s that saying? “Failure to plan on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part.”
We still need pitching, and Peavy would be ideal, but come Friday the free agents hit the market and we’ll have to move on.
By Get On With It
November 12, 2008 11:50 AM | Link to this
“VORP” - sounds like something you do after having too much to drink.
By Lew
November 12, 2008 11:51 AM | Link to this
Johgn-No.
By David O'Brien
November 12, 2008 11:51 AM | Link to this
Folks, don’t entirely dismiss Small Bridge. He does play solid defense. Not anything sensational like Escobar, but Lillibridge also doesn’t make as many careless error, either. So you’d get steady, not flash, defense.
Problem is, he can’t hit yet at major league level. That’s a big problem, if you’re going to count on a guy to be an every-day player. And it’s why I can’t see Braves doing that. He’d only be a last-ditch replacement, if all the other options fell through, in my opinion.
By Get On With It
November 12, 2008 11:52 AM | Link to this
or you “VORP” after listening to Firehouse…
By StingerSplash
November 12, 2008 11:52 AM | Link to this
Can’t ever go wrong with Social D. Might put them in the CD player next, right after I finish listening to “Never Mind the Bol——s” for the 800th time. Either that one of the two best of The Hag (get well soon!) CDs a buddy burned for me.
Theo Epstein seems to love to find the extra partner to trade with. Engineered a couple of monumental deals (Nomah, ManRam) doing so. It probably isn’t every GM’s cup of tea because that’s a rather complicated game of mix and match that unravels easily.
By Dadgum
November 12, 2008 11:53 AM | Link to this
Folks, there is nothing substantial being reported that says the Braves will now have to give up Flowers. We gave up the farm to acquire Texeira in what again has proven to be a dud of a trade on behalf of the Braves. If the Braves have 4 players in this package and one of them is Escobar then Wren should say “see ya..wouldn’t wanna be ya!”
If Towers wants Flowers then great. I would pull Escobar and give them Flowers, Gorkys, Morton, and some pitching prospect not named Hanson or Locke. See how absurd that is? Towers ain’t going for that and Wren ain’t going for giving up 4 players with Esco in the mix.
Clock is ticking. The closer it gets to Friday the more Towers will blink. Problem is now the Yankees are being tossed around and lord knows they need pitching. They are terrible at SP. Eventhough he has mentioned not playing in the AL, when informed the Yankees may be back in the mix Peavy termed it “imteresting”. This is one mell of a hess.
Rock on………again
By Bubdylan
November 12, 2008 11:54 AM | Link to this
I have to ask a fool question, don’t nobody kick me. Is Flowers a bigger deal at his current phase of progress than Thorman was at said phase? Yeah, I’m just grouping them cuz their big boys who hit homers, but … somebody educate me. In 100 non-profane words or less.
By Tomas
November 12, 2008 11:55 AM | Link to this
I think substituting Flowers for Gorkys actually benefits the Braves. Honestly I think Flowers has no future on this team, because of Brian McCann, so he is destined to be a trade piece like Saltalamacchia. And Gorkys speed is something this team has been missing.
He may not be ready yet but in a few years he will be. We can also see what kind of talent we can attract for Jordan Schafer. Maybe Jermaine Dye.
By AdirondackDave
November 12, 2008 11:57 AM | Link to this
Chuck — I agree with your thought. Something unnerving about the trade-Flowers talk… Guys who can pound the ball 450-500 feet don’t come along every day, especially when they are skilled catchers (according to Hanson and others.)
By AuburnBrave
November 12, 2008 11:59 AM | Link to this
There are now a couple of reports that the Padres want Tyler Flowers instead of a CF prospect like Gorkys Hernandez.
http://msn.foxsports.com/other/story/8782170/Brewers%27-veterans-could-be-dealt-for-pitching-help
In my opinion this is better for the Braves, because while Flowers is a superior offensive prospect, he isn’t going to get a lot of playing time with our MLB club while McCann is around, which is several years hopefully. So I say that if they want Flowers and this gets us closer to getting the Peavy deal done then go for it.
By DAP
November 12, 2008 12:03 PM | Link to this
RC From what I’ve read about Flowers, he doesn’t project to be a Ryan Howard type hitter.
from what ive heard he has everything howard has except the strikeouts. i think.