Braves

By Marty

November 5, 2008 6:22 PM | Link to this

I agree completely with your assessment, DOB, i.e., trading for Peavy even if it means trading Yunel. But what will we do about SS then?

By Taylor S

November 5, 2008 6:23 PM | Link to this

DOB, what abut Brad Penny? Is he even on our radar ?

By Robert

November 5, 2008 6:25 PM | Link to this

I would love to sub Johnson instead of Escobar. DO you think we could get Peavy with Johnson as the center instead of Escobar

By Marty

November 5, 2008 6:26 PM | Link to this

Wow, I was actually first? How bout that.

By David O'Brien

November 5, 2008 6:30 PM | Link to this

To clarify comment on last blog, that $4-5 mill is the signing-bonus amount I heard Tazawa would get.

Not sure of total amount of offer, but probably wouldn’t be too much higher than that. I think some of you guys are comparing him to Dice-K money-wise, when that’s apples and oranges, and not just because there is no posting fee for this kid.

Beyond that, it’s entirely different scenario in that Dice-K was a proven professional pitcher with a ton of experience in their major league over there. This is a kid who’s pitched at the equivelent of perhaps A-ball or borderline Double-A ball. Wren said more like college-level experience, but some Japanese folks here compared it to A-ball or Double-A.

Regardless, he’s a relatively unproven pitcher, not the nearly sure-thing major leaguer the Red Sox were getting when they won the bidding war for Dice-K. This guy doesn’t even have an agent, far as I know. Braves have been dealing with him directly, with his team manager advising him.

By woogidy

November 5, 2008 6:31 PM | Link to this

Can’t we just trade Bobby Cox and Scott Thorman for Peavy?

By David O'Brien

November 5, 2008 6:31 PM | Link to this

Taylor, it wasn’t until today that the Dodgers announced they were decling Penny’s option. Don’t know if Braves have met with his agent yet, but I think they probably have interest in him, though not as a No. 1. Health questions.

By Efrim

November 5, 2008 6:32 PM | Link to this

Gotta do it. But….

You can’t pair Escobar with Schafer….

I don’t think you can do that.

Escobar and Morton, those two would probably have to be in the deal. Then, another pitcher from Rohrbough/Medlen/Marek/Locke. And then maybe Tyler Flowers.

But I don’t think you add Schafer in there. Not if you are dealing Escobar.

By David O'Brien

November 5, 2008 6:33 PM | Link to this

Hampton and Glavine both filed today. Entirely expected.

By Steve McQueen

November 5, 2008 6:35 PM | Link to this

DOB DOB When I was a little boy I wanted to grow up to be DOB DOB The coolest doggone motherscratcher at the AJC

How do I get your job?

Has your hearing recovered from Saturday?

By Ryan S

November 5, 2008 6:35 PM | Link to this

If Yunel does go in the Peavy deal, who do we look to play SS next season? Lillibridge, Prado(can he play there?) or Infante?

By Jamie in Richmond

November 5, 2008 6:36 PM | Link to this

David O’Brien

If the Braves were to trade Esco for Peavy and sign Taz to what I believe you suggested may be in excess of $6 mill annually, how much money do you speculate they’d have remaining to fill LF and shortstop needs?

Directly, I’m inquiring if Atl would have enough dunds remaining to make an attempt at bringing back Furcal. Or is that, financially, totally out of the realm of possibility?

Raul Ibanez as a target for LF…anything on that?

Thanks

By LKS

November 5, 2008 6:37 PM | Link to this

So…looks like Esco will be leaving us. I can’t help but think that is a Terrible move but whatever… Its their decision.

By tvsportscaster

November 5, 2008 6:37 PM | Link to this

I agree with your assessment DOB, that that package would get the deal done. My only question is if Khalil Greene is not coming back in the deal, what plan do the Braves have for shortstop, surely Lillibridge is not an everyday option. Any thoughts?

By Don!

November 5, 2008 6:40 PM | Link to this

Trade Yunel, re-sign Edgar? I’d be okay with that for 2009, but what do we have in the farm system for middle infielders for 2010 and beyond?

From what I understand, the Braves’ farm system has a few corner infielders with outstanding credentials, and a good pool of outfielders and starting pitchers waiting for the cream (excluding Hansen, who is a projected ace …) to rise to the top.

I’d actually feel good about this deal for 2009 and beyond if I felt comfortable about our SS down the road. One of the biggest reasons San Diego would make this deal is that SS is one of the hardest positions to project (and fill) from the minor leagues. That’s my opinion, anyway.

Later,

Don!

By Salty Dawg

November 5, 2008 6:41 PM | Link to this

I agree with you DOB in regards to the likelihood of Escobar becoming an elite SS. Nothing is guaranteed, but the kid is still young and shows real talent. I sure would hate to see him go, but if it must be then pull the trigger. Who, then, would be the heir apparent at short? Someone from withing the organization or does that add a new item to Wren’s shopping list? I am sure that is considered well in advance of any decision, but very curious what Wren is planning should he have to fork over Esco.

By jmart1951

November 5, 2008 6:44 PM | Link to this

I for one believe that Escobar is a very special player and if I have to give him up it would then mean that the remainder of the trade package is of lesser players, maybe Gorky, Marek, Reyes, Jones types. Not Schaefer, Hansen, Heyward, Medlin, Freeman, Flowers, Morton.

By Salty Dawg

November 5, 2008 6:45 PM | Link to this

Jamie in Richmond-

Not to answer for DOB, but I don’t believe that $6 mil counts toward the payroll. Also, very, very, very little chance that the Braves would acquire Furcal. From everything I’ve read the Dodgers want him back and he wants to be there. Not to mention, he will likely get some hefty offers on the FA market. It would defeat the purpose of trading Esco for Peavy rather than spending big $ on a FA pitcher.

By Lew

November 5, 2008 6:47 PM | Link to this

Anders-Dude, to answer your question from the last blog-HAD the Red Sox decided they really wanted Johan (and keep in mind they were what? A game away from the World Series without him?), they could have had him. The Twins’ GM kept trying to play the Sox and Yankees off of each other, pushed it to the point where both told him to get lost and ended up accepting a much inferior package from the Mets.

Now did the Mets get a deal? Absolutely. Did they need to acquire Johan? Again, absolutely. Did he perform as expected? Absolutely, yet a again. Did the deal come about because of some supposed master strategy put in place by Omar Minaya? No way. It fell into his lap because the Twins GM was greedy and misjudged the point where the other suitors withdrew their offers and walked away.

By Salty Dawg

November 5, 2008 6:49 PM | Link to this

By Robert I would love to sub Johnson instead of Escobar. DO you think we could get Peavy with Johnson as the center instead of Escobar

From your lips to Frank Wren’s ears. I too would much rather see KJ on the left coast in lieu of Escobar. I just don’t think he is as highly regarded at his position as Escobar. But oh if it were to happen, I might just do a happy dance.

By dodgerblue

November 5, 2008 6:49 PM | Link to this

You guys should just forget about Peavy. He’s going to be a Dodger. I heard his agent state TODAY that he prefers the West Coast and PREFERS to play with the Dodgers. He wants to play for a contending team. We all know that aint the Braves.

Dave O’Brien, you are really going to look ridiculous with all your posts about Peavy, and it’s just a matter of time until the Braves get him, and how all it will cost is Escobar, when Towers actually trades him to the Dodgers. Say what you will about the Padres not wanting to trade within the division, but Towers is talking to us for a reason, and we have FAR better prospects than do the Braves. Yes sir, he’ll look mighty good in Dodger Blue.

By Steve from OH

November 5, 2008 6:50 PM | Link to this

Don, we’ve got Brandon Hicks (who I’m not at all sold on yet) in high-A/AA right now. Good glove guy, projects for good power, but the OBP is a bit low (.335 at high-A). His SLG keeps his OPS in the 800’s, though. He’s got good potential, but he’s not there yet.

If only Elvis was still in the building…

By used cars

November 5, 2008 6:51 PM | Link to this

Thanks for the info Dave. Hope your not slaving too hard out there. Any sense on whether the Padres want to get this thing done quickly so they can move on to other things. Any other info floating on Ordonez, Ludwick or Ibanez? Do you think Kelly, Medlen and Marek and maybe a Cody Johnson could get Peavy. If so, maybe we would have the ammo to get Ordonez. I would really like a cleanup hitter like we had in Mcgriff to anchor the lineup. It would just make everyone around him better. And I’m with you, I think Escobar needs to be untouchable. we need a little more fire like him around.

By David O'Brien

November 5, 2008 6:51 PM | Link to this

Jamie, the signing-bonus money for Tazawa is from a different pile of cash than the major league payroll.

By Steve from OH

November 5, 2008 6:53 PM | Link to this

DOB, do you have any idea what the organization’s opinion is on Hicks? Esoteric question, I know. Sorry.

By Moby Grape

November 5, 2008 6:53 PM | Link to this

Can’t we just trade Bobby Cox and Scott Thorman for Peavy?Woogidy

how about if we just keep Bobby and trade you instead. That way they would reap the benefit of all your baseball expertise instead of Bobby’s

By Original Jon

November 5, 2008 6:53 PM | Link to this

DOB Not sure if you have been asked this yet or not, and if you have, I apologize for not seeing it, but, Junichi Tazawa would not be the 2nd pitcher the Braves are going after would he? A rotation of Peavy, Jurrjens, and whoever else would not be that great.

Are there plans to get another starter other than Tazawa?? if they get him at all?

By mitchie-san

November 5, 2008 6:54 PM | Link to this

I’m rarely near the top….wow.

By BravesFanChris24

November 5, 2008 6:56 PM | Link to this

I doubt Dodgers will give up THAT much that Towers would demand from them for Peavy. I wouldn’t question that maybe Dodgers are inquiring, but I don’t see Peavy as a Dodger for THAT type of ransom that Towers would want from a division rival.

By Lew

November 5, 2008 6:56 PM | Link to this

Jamie-There was a report today the Furcal is looking for a four year deal. Considering the back problems which put him out for most of the season in 08 and seeing how bad his defense was in the playoffs, I don’t think the Braves would sign him to that type of deal. Especially at the amount he would be seeking. I wouldn’t blame them (or anyone else for that matter).

By David O'Brien

November 5, 2008 6:56 PM | Link to this

Robert, I asked about that and was told by someone close to the Padres that they regard Escobar on a higher level than KJ, and they also have a young 2B (Matt Antonelli) they probably aren’t ready to give up on just yet or relegate to utility status yet, though he stunk last year in Triple-A.

Of course, that could be a Padres official blowing smoke up his laptop, but that’s what he was told.

By Eddie

November 5, 2008 6:56 PM | Link to this

DOB, if the braves land peavy and the japanese guy..who do you think they would go after to fill the outfield spot..DUnn? also…great lyrics choice today….have you heard GOv’t Mule do a cover of the song..warren haynes is amazing on the guitar

By Lew

November 5, 2008 6:59 PM | Link to this

DodgerBlue-Honestly, I don’t care if we get Peavy or someone else, but Towers would have to be And Idiot to trade Peavy within his own division.

By David O'Brien

November 5, 2008 6:59 PM | Link to this

dodgerblue, why am I going to look silly? I didn’t say it was a done deal or that he’s definitely coming to the Braves. I said the consensus among people I talk to here is that the Braves are frontrunners, and that there are a lot of people who doubt Towers would actually trade him to the Dodgers. If he does, he does.

But glad you heard his agent say TODAY that he PREFERS the West Coast. Were you dining with the agent, by chance?

By Moby Grape

November 5, 2008 7:02 PM | Link to this

any DEXTER fans out there who think that this season is a bit of a letdown?

By Tomas

November 5, 2008 7:03 PM | Link to this

Why not trade BOTH Escobar, and KJ. I’d only trade KJ if we get Ryan Ludwick straight up, or someone in the level of Ludwick. And if Peavy requires Escobar, Morton, Medlen, and a low level prospect, i’d pull the trigger.

Prado can fill the 2B position very well. And I can live with Lillibridge in SS. I believe his defense can be very good, and that’s the most important cuality in a SS. It’s like a Walt Weiss, Ozzie Guillen, Rafael Belliard, etc. But in order for this to work, the other players in the team have to hit.

But I’d like to keep Escobar if possible, I prefer to trade Jordan Schaefer, Tyler Flowers, Kris Medlen, Charlie Morton, and two mid-level prospects or one for Peavy.

By mitchie-san

November 5, 2008 7:04 PM | Link to this

Peavy will be in Atlanta in a “4 for 2” kind of deal. It will cost us Yunel, two pitchers and some no-name player for Peavy and Greene. I bet that the two main hold ups are the Padres hearing all offers they can and which players the Braves want to give up other than Yunel. I am sure the Braves are low balling with some scrubs trying to get something done before they get to the bigger names they want to keep. It will take some time, but it will get done.

By j

November 5, 2008 7:06 PM | Link to this

Hello, Dave, I hope your ears have recovered from the Hold Steady/ Drive By Truckers show. I hope we do find a way to get Peavy without depleting our farm system. Schafer really might benefit from a fresh start given what happened last year. Combine him with Morton and Freeman and hopefully, Towers might be down. Would love to find a way to keep Escobar and Gorkys while still getting Peavy. Wouldn’t we all I know.

Also, have any other albums float your boat lately? I am in total agreement about Stay Positive being a great record. The new Mercury Rev is pretty good as well. Kinda iffy about Ryan Adams new one though. Cheers, J

By Bubdylan

November 5, 2008 7:08 PM | Link to this

Schafers and Gorkys Hernandezes and Freddie Freeemans - DOB

Man, that no-make-up waitress got you ALL messed up. :)

By stamper

November 5, 2008 7:09 PM | Link to this

dodgerblue, you’re so incredibly delusional it’s amusing. that… and you’re a tool. do us all a favor and kick yourself in the back of the head. thanx, champ.

By ncscoots

November 5, 2008 7:09 PM | Link to this

One of the biggest reasons San Diego would make this deal is that SS is one of the hardest positions to project (and fill) from the minor leagues

You must not have read the last blog, my friend, LOL. Some shining star of blog intelligence reminded us all that it would be easy to get a “capable SS” if Escobar is traded.

+20 SS grow on trees, I guess, and I’ve only been looking at the ground. Foolish me.

By BravesFanInRockies

November 5, 2008 7:09 PM | Link to this

dodgerblue,

Peavy may become a Dodger, but if he does, it’ll be because Coletti gave up players the caliber of Kershaw and Kemp and Hu … and you’ll still be stuck with Andruw and Pierre stinking up your roster!

The Padres will insist on more from the Dodgers if they’re trading Peavy within the division.

By Bubdylan

November 5, 2008 7:09 PM | Link to this

Oh, you had just pluralized their names. I’m retarded.

By Billy Walsh

November 5, 2008 7:18 PM | Link to this

Hey DOB, are cigars allowed on the veranda. If you havent already, try a Tatuaje (better than most cubans). Whats the time table on a Tazawa decision? Did Boston make an offer? Check out the great clash pics on rollingstone’s website (great pic of the band with De Niro) Apparently there is a new book on the only band that mattered.

By Serge

November 5, 2008 7:19 PM | Link to this

Matt Antonelli was one of the 100 top prospects in baseball at the end of the 07 season. Hes pretty good so its no suprise the Padres would want Escobar. They dont have a SS to replace Khalil Green (Who might be dealt to Baltimore)

By Erik

November 5, 2008 7:19 PM | Link to this

DOB I agree with your assessment and I hope we can get Peavy without giving up Schaffer and Flowers. Here would be my hopes for transactions this offseason. remember the braves have about 45$ Million to spend.

1)Braves Give up: Escobar, Morton, Medlen, Brandon Hicks(or another lesser position prospect) 1)Braves Get: Peavy

Net salary exchange: Braves take on about 10 Million(after deducting Escobar and Morton’s salary)

2) Braves Give up: KJ, Marek 2) Braves Get: Ludwick

Net Salary exchange: Braves save a couple million by avoiding arbitration for KJ

3) Sign Renteria to 2 yr 10-14$ Million contract.

Net Salary Impact: 5-7 Million a year

4)Sign Dempster to 4 year 50-60$ Million deal (Lowe, or Brunette) as plan B

Net Salary impact: 12.5-15$ Million a year)

Total Salary Increase: 27.5-32 Million This gives us room to sign Smoltz, Ohman, and a couple bench players

This would give us a lineup of 1.Anderson/Glanco CF (you know the story) 2. Renteria SS (you know the story with him in front of chipper) 3. Chipper 3B(same as every year) 4. Ludwick RF/LF(.299 with 38HR last yr) 5.Adam Dunn RF/LF(.380 OBP and 40HR the last 3 seasons) 6. McCann 7.Frenchy 8.Prado

Rotation 1)Peavy 2)JJ 3)Dempster 4)Campillo 5)Hampton/Smoltz/Rookie

This gives us a very young rotation with a very solid 1,2,3, and 4. With Hanson and Hudson probably coming into the equation at some point in the second half.

What do you think?

By Efrim

November 5, 2008 7:23 PM | Link to this

DOB

Robert, I asked about that and was told by someone close to the Padres that they regard Escobar on a higher level than KJ, and they also have a young 2B (Matt Antonelli) they probably aren’t ready to give up on just yet or relegate to utility status yet, though he stunk last year in Triple-A.

Of course, that could be a Padres official blowing smoke up his laptop, but that’s what he was told.

Yup, that sounds about right. I think that guy close to the situation is spot on. Padres don’t have any SS ready in the minors. Antonelli was high on their list. He has a bad year, and he may be moved to CF, but I think that they still view him as a regular second baseman.

My question is, did you get the sense that they may have to include Schafer along with Escobar to get a deal done? Not sure how in the world you’d know that….but I’m just askin.

By Original Jon

November 5, 2008 7:25 PM | Link to this

Erik, how in the world do you get Dunn in the lineup when he wasnt in your proposal and money spent? So if all that you say happens and we spend about 32 million of that 45 you say we have, you really think we could sign Dunn for 13 million a year?

By Duke

November 5, 2008 7:30 PM | Link to this

DOB, hope you will be able to catch Sons of Anarchy tonight. As usual it will be a delicious treat. Also my take on the whole Peavey saga is if the Padres want Yunel then give him to them. It doesnt matter how much we regard Yunel. We regard Peavey a lot more. I love the fact that Manny Ramirez is about to get 25 a year at the age of 36. I would think either this or the next season is gonna be his downward turn year. He played on a lot of emotion towards the end of last season. Oh and keep rocking the Chucks. Peace

By Erik

November 5, 2008 7:36 PM | Link to this

scratch Dunn at 5. That was my first draft in which we traded Frenchy and a package for Greinke in stead of signing Dempster. Under that scenario we would try to sign Dunn. Push McCan up a spot and slide Kotchman in at 6.

By Original Jon

November 5, 2008 7:49 PM | Link to this

Ok, makes a little more sense, but that still wont happen.

By Salty Dawg

November 5, 2008 7:56 PM | Link to this

I know this is off topic, but any insight into the likelihood of an extension for Chipper before next season, or at all. Seems like he is due for a bump in pay even with the injuries given the fact that he restructured his salary a few years back and has basically carried the offense for the past two years. I guess there is no rush to get it done given that Chipper is likely to stay in Atlanta as long as they want him, but I’d hate to see him have another banner year and be p** about the Braves waiting ‘til the last minute.

By David O'Brien

November 5, 2008 7:59 PM | Link to this

Folks, regardless of what’s being written, Braves aren’t shopping Francoeur out here. Haven’t talked trade with a single club, from what I’m told by someone who knows. Not saying his name hasn’t come up in casual conversation, perhaps, between GMs or scouts or whatever. But no trade talks.

I really think he’s going to get a chance to prove himself, to start the season with the Braves in RF. Don’t see him getting dealt, not unless, of course, he struggles again in first half of season….

Colletti said Dodgers made offer for Manny today that would give him second-highest average annual salary in baseball history, which means somewhere around $25 mill per year. But he didn’t give any details other than that, which probably means it’s three or four years at $25 mill annually, which probably made Boras cringe and try to avoid laughing.

I’m sure one of the Dodgers writers will have the amount soon. I’ve got other stuff to write, but just wanted you all to know what Colletti just said to a scrum of us reporters….

Braves aren’t going to make a run at Penny, by the way. Too many question marks.

By N8

November 5, 2008 8:00 PM | Link to this

“I disagree. While Atlanta’s closer will give up his share of runs, I’m going to say that Wagner isn’t going to give up any runs — let alone baserunners — all year.”

Sure. I understand. An ERA of 0.00 ……. with ZERO saves, ZERO holds and ZERO wins. Fair enough I suppose. LOL!

nolie

“He’s had some good years but it took him longer to get there than the Braves would have put up with anyway….Wouldn’t mind having him back for a couple of years though….Neither of them rival the Butler trade”

Totally agree. I have zero problem if a Braves fan (along with Bobby and Wren) feel that adding Dye for a year or two would strenthen the club NOW. But to say we “missed out” on something by trading him is silly.

“Fielding Bible ranked Wright 6th in MLB and Chipper did not make the top 10. I’m not a big believer in fielding stats but I lean towards this org.”

Was that for 2007 or 2088? Just curious.

“Chipper has gotten better than he used to be, but he ain’t no gold glover and the odds are he will never come close to winning one because of his very poor rep from his first sojourn at third.”

There lies the problem with the GG award. It’s more about reputation, than actually looking at each individual season. Which is why Vinny Castilla didn’t win it (when Chipper moved to LF for him - Vinny was damn near flawless AND solid as hell that year), and the same reason Mr. Viagroid won it having DH’d most of the season he won it.

I’m not one to look at just errors. Because I’m of the belief that many guys make errors on plays that others might not get to. Say Furcal in his early years. Dude had a ton of range, but made the occasional wild throw on balls that other guys had ZERO shot of getting to.

I realize that Maddux is arguably one of the finest fielding pitchers in recent history (if not all of history). But are we really to believe (I didn’t watch much Maddux starts this year), that at age 65, he’s as good of a fielder as he was when he started his career? Add to that, that there isn’t another guy out there that does it a little better in today’s game?

Maybe. Maybe not. But like you said. His reputation doesn’t hurt, right?

As for Chipper. Maybe I’m the homer, but I don’t think anybody fields bunts and slow choppers with his bare-hand as good, much less better than him in all of baseball. Add to that, his arm is steady and accurate. His range to his left (cutting off balls in the hole before the SS has to make a backhanded play) is as good as anybody’s in the league.

I’m not neccesarily saying that Chipper should be the gimmie for the NL GG year after year, but Wright has hardly been clearly the best 3B (when you consider only fielding) the past two years. Not with 21 errors in 2007.

Just my opinion.

DOB

Agree with most of your reasoning regarding Peavy and trading for him for prospects, rather than spending money on free agents.

It really comes down to the money and what Wren and Bobby want. That being said (and it’s NOT my money), I’d almost lean towards keeping the guys in our system, making a move on a couple of the big guns out there (Lowe, Penny, Burnett) and KEEP the prospects.

Is there more risk in those guys? Possibly. Then again, Peavy’s arm could blow up at any point (as could JJJ’s or Hansons, or Smoltz’s…er…wait a minute, or Hudson’s…..er….sorry about that, or Gonzo’s).

Like I said, it really comes down to WHO they want.

While I believe that if totally healthy, there isn’t a better pitcher in baseball than Peavy. Some others that compare (Sabathia, Hamels, Webb, etc..), but that’s apples to apples, IMO.

No doubt that Peavy is “better” than Burnett, Penny and Lowe.

The question that is at hand, is if the Braves are a better team with JUST Peavy (and Greene or another player) at SS. Or are they better off with Burnett and Escobar on the 25 man roster at the same time. Not to mention the OTHER prospects waiting in the wings for mid-season help, roster depth or trades next off-season?

Only Wren knows how they really feel.

I’m happy either way, if it makes us a better team for the future. But since all we really “netted” out of the Tex trade was Kotchman (who might end up being better for us than ANY of the prospects we gave up for Tex), makes me a bit gun-shy to give up 4-5 players for Peavy and Greene.

That being said it IS completely different than the Tex deal, because Peavy is locked up long-term.

What the hell do I know? Go Braves. Get R Done Wren!

By ghbrave

November 5, 2008 8:01 PM | Link to this

DOB, While I agree Peavy is no doubt a quality #1 rotation guy, what do you make of his home/away career stats? He definitely has enjoyed the vast expanse called PETCO,huh? At home 2.77 ERA/.219 BAA/.613 OPS On the Road 3.80 ERA/.246 BAA/.737 OPS

By David O'Brien

November 5, 2008 8:01 PM | Link to this

Duke, I don’t think my hotel has FX. But if not, I’ll certainly watch it soon as I get home tomorrow night. Love that show. Outstanding.

By Jake

November 5, 2008 8:04 PM | Link to this

If we do trade for Peavy I for one hope we can do it without getting rid of Esco. I know he has great upside and it sounds as if that is the infielder they have kind of set their sights on but I don’t think KJ is that far off especially at his position. I know Petco is a huge park but I can see KJ doing great there. I think his swing can find those gaps and he has plenty of power when he gets in to one to get it out. If i’m the Padres I don’t think I can go wrong either way with those two. They both have a lot of potential.

By Tom

November 5, 2008 8:08 PM | Link to this

DOB—Another big round of thanks for all the great work you’re doing. I don’t know of any other beat writer that’s giving out anywhere near as much info as you are, and your comments are all well-thought-out and reasonable (i.e., you don’t just seem to be posting every little bit of conversation you hear, and you’re generally good about indicating how reliable the source/info is).

A couple questions for you, though (thanks for answering my previous ones).

First, regarding a potential Peavy deal. You said at one point that any deal involving Escobar would bring Khalil Greene back the Braves’ way. You seem to still think Escobar could/will be involved, but I wonder if you are still hearing Greene’s name as much, given that it seems other teams are inquiring about the Padres’ shortstop. Is it still likely that Greene would come to Atlanta if Escobar went to SD? On a more speculative note….if Greene isn’t part of the deal, any insight on possible returns for either Edgar Renteria or Rafael Furcal?

Second, you say that Tazawa’s bonus comes from a “different pile of cash” (like the image there) than the major-league payroll. Any info on exactly WHICH pile of cash that is? I see the words “signing bonus,” and I instantly worry that Tazawa’s bonus might come out of our 2009 draft pool, which might be a bad idea given our seventh overall pick and the outrageous success of the ‘08 draft (where we signed all our picks 10th round or earlier). This might not something Frank Wren wants to reveal, but I was curious what info you had on that front.

Thanks again!

By David O'Brien

November 5, 2008 8:09 PM | Link to this

By the way, whether or not Escobar is traded, Khalil Greene isn’t going to be replacing him. Of that I can now say with a great deal of certainty. Braves just aren’t big on him.

By stynes

November 5, 2008 8:11 PM | Link to this

DOB - “Were you dining with the agent, by chance?”

You kill me, man. You’re like the nicest, most patient guy…. And then someone says or does something stupid to set you off and you just come back with this ire of fire. It really cracks me up.

By brian

November 5, 2008 8:14 PM | Link to this

the only way I see Francoeur being dealt is if KC offers a good package with Teahan/Dejesus and a top young pitcher. Moore loves him and might overpay relatively for Francoeur. Otherwise the Braves have to gamble that Francoeur will bounce back at least somewhat this year

By Casey

November 5, 2008 8:16 PM | Link to this

Thank you for easing my mind. We do not need Jeff Spicoli playing SS for the Braves.

By Interested Observer

November 5, 2008 8:25 PM | Link to this

I cannot endorse a Peavy for Escobar, etc. trade until I know who would replace Esco at SS. If we weaken SS too much, I’m not sure adding Peavy would benefit us as much as keeping Escobar and adding some of the other pitchers would. Since we have two outstanding CF prospects, I’d be more open to trading one of them instead of Escobar.

By David O'Brien

November 5, 2008 8:25 PM | Link to this

Also, the Ryan Ludwick stuff is ongoing. Braves are talking to Cardinals about him, but I think it hinges on the Peavy thing because Braves aren’t going to trade Kelly Johnson if they trade Escobar to San Diego. There might also be some chance the Padres would consider taking KJ, but I’m not sure (I don’t know if they are). In that case, Braves wouldn’t trade Escobar to Cardinals, who’d sure love to have him.

By Joe M.

November 5, 2008 8:34 PM | Link to this

“I really think he’s going to get a chance to prove himself, to start the season with the Braves in RF. Don’t see him getting dealt, not unless, of course, he struggles again in first half of season….”

The Braves are still showing that extraordinary bias towards Francoeur. What incriminating photographs of some members of the Braves’ front office does he possess?

How much longer? How many chances? If it was anyone else on the team doing for three years what Francoeur has done for the past three full seasons (2006-2008), they’d likely non-tender them.

Why the extreme favoritism? I’m being dead-serious. Is it because the Braves think Francoeur boosts home game attendance? A good PR face for charity events and whatnot? The sponsorships? What?

By stynes

November 5, 2008 8:36 PM | Link to this

One other thing, DOB. I was in Hollywood a few weeks ago. Hollywood, FL not Hollywood, CA. Well, I was actually in Hollywood, CA too but I’m talking about Hollywood, FL. Anyway… I tried Le Tub. The cabbie had trouble finding it - had apparently never heard of it. The atmosphere was very cool. It was beautiful weather, early afternoon (2:30 or so?) on a Thursday. Few people there. The burgers were huge, I’ll give em that. Tasty but definitely overcooked for my order of medium. Not a whole lot of flavor - seasonings. Good overall experience, though. I’d go back. It was good but not great. Definitely not the best burger I’ve ever had but I’m glad I went and tried it. Keep the recommendations coming - especially the BBQ.

By Erik

November 5, 2008 8:43 PM | Link to this

DOB

Without KJ is the Ludwick Deal dead or do we have any other valued pieces for the cards without dipping into our untouchables? If so what would that deal look like?

By Clay

November 5, 2008 8:46 PM | Link to this

DOB Let’s say St. Louis says ok on the KJ for Ludwick trade, do the Braves still wait to see about Peavy or do they go ahead and pull the trigger and try to work out another deal with SD or just look for a pitcher/pitchers via Free Agency?

By David O'Brien

November 5, 2008 8:51 PM | Link to this

Just found out that the Cardinals would take either Escobar or KJ in the deal for Ludwick. Don’t know if they’d have to include anything else.

That deal will be held up by the Peavy matter, probably, because Braves don’t want to trade both their middle infielders in the same offseason.

By used cars

November 5, 2008 9:04 PM | Link to this

Do you really see Ludwick as a cleanup solution or another in the line of 5-6-7 type of hitters. Who would you prefer to see hitting behind Chipper, is McCann the long term answer there.

By Salty Dawg

November 5, 2008 9:10 PM | Link to this

I really don’t see any logic to trading Francoeur right now unless someone comes in with an over-the-top offer, relatively speaking. Jeff’s trade value is pretty much rock bottom right now, so you aren’t likely to get much in return. On the other hand, if this season was an anomaly, Francoeur could still turn out to be an above average to very good OF. I don’t think anyone would be terribly disappointed at this point if he can even get back to the numbers he put up in his sophomore season. It’s been well documented that Francoeur tried to “bulk up” last off season in an attempt to become a power hitter. That obviously was an abysmal failure. So if he learned his lesson, it isn’t outside the realm of possibility that he can turn things around. As DOB mentioned, if he hasn’t turned things around a couple months into next season it will be painfully obvious and the Braves will do what they must at that point. For now, I personally would like to see him get another shot with the Bravos.

By Jeff

November 5, 2008 9:11 PM | Link to this

As I said months ago, including Hanson or Esco in a trade for Peavy would be stupid. Thankfully Braves GM Wren has apparently shot down any chance of Hanson being moved since then, but the trade Esco stuff continues.

Personally, I’m hoping Braves GM Frank Wren is smart enough to see what the Braves have in Esco (and if he is, then Esco must be included among the “untouchables”).

That said, Brent Lillibridge isn’t even much of a back-up MLB shortstop, much less a viable replacement for Escobar. Escobar’s great defense will be missed if he’s traded.

PS: Esco battled injuries this past season a la McCann in 2007 (and like McCann in 2007 he still hit well for his position). If Esco can stay healthy this season, then he’ll likely hit over .300 again, and could hit closer to .330 or so. I also expect his HR numbers to continue to improve as well. Esco having a healthy season would certainly help matters, just as we saw with McCann.

By Salty Dawg

November 5, 2008 9:12 PM | Link to this

McCann would be a great guy to have in the 4 spot, if he were an every day player. As it stands, it just doesn’t make sense to have the catcher batting 4th because you still have to have someone that can pull the rope on his off days.

By T-Bone

November 5, 2008 9:13 PM | Link to this

DOB, would the Braves make a run for Furcal if they trade Escobar?

By MizzouBravesFan

November 5, 2008 9:13 PM | Link to this

Sounds like the Peavy deal is holding up everything else the Braves want to do.

This is my fear about it dragging out…hopefully it can get done soon?

We got other issues lol.

By Clay

November 5, 2008 9:14 PM | Link to this

DOB…When you say i don’t know if they’d have to include anything else do you mean the braves or cards might have to include more…Braves I am guessing

By Efrim

November 5, 2008 9:14 PM | Link to this

DOB

Will the Peavy matter hold up everything for the Braves? I have to imagine it might at this point. They can’t sign any free agents because the signing period hasn’t started. But any other trade that might have interest in doing may have to wait until the Peavy deal is done. Am I wrong in thinking that? Of course, getting Peavy is a pretty big deal, so I suppose it is worth the hold up on other fronts.

By Alex

November 5, 2008 9:15 PM | Link to this

Do we have a good SS replacement anyways?

By siskel

November 5, 2008 9:18 PM | Link to this

DOB

Where does Omar Infante fit in with the Braves next season? SS if we trade Esco? I wouldn’t be opposed to Omar and Prado in the infield, great defense and both young team players who Bobby seems to like so why not move both especially with a return of Ludwick or Ankiel? Also any possibility of a deal with the White Sox for Vasquez and or Dye?

By Jeff

November 5, 2008 9:22 PM | Link to this

DOB sir:

I can understand the Braves being against trading Esco (as he should be among our untouchables a la Hanson, etc), but in KJ’s case we have a viable replacement in Prado, etc.

Furthermore, if the Braves are willing to give up Esco (which will prove a mistake IMHO), then I don’t see why they wouldn’t also trade KJ, esp. for a player like Ludwick.

PS: If we trade Esco, etc. for Peavy and he gets hurt (and that should be at least somewhat a concern IMHO), then this will have turned out as bad or worse than the short-sighted Tex trade did for us.

By keylargo

November 5, 2008 9:23 PM | Link to this

Just found out that the Cardinals would take either Escobar or KJ in the deal for Ludwick. Don’t know if they’d have to include anything else. DOB

Let’s get Bobby’s Cox to negotiate with the Cardinals and convince them to take Prado instead.

By Marty

November 5, 2008 9:25 PM | Link to this

used cars

Ludwick’s past performanced definitely indicates that he would be perfect for the 4-spot in the lineup. As another blogger pointed out, Ludwick was the Cardinals’ cleanup hitter last year. For those who haven’t looked, he batted .299 with 40 doubles, 37 homers, and 113 RBI, an on-base percentage of .375, and a slugging percentage of .591. His .501 minor-league slugging percentage indicates that last season may have been a high point but was probably not a complete aberration. Those are cleanup-guy numbers.

By Andrew

November 5, 2008 9:26 PM | Link to this

Dave, if the trade for peavy goes through and it is indeed Yunel, what do you think about bringing back Edgar for a year or two?

By DHD

November 5, 2008 9:27 PM | Link to this

Any chance we ship Escobar for Ludwick and KJ for Peavy THEN sign Furcal?

By B-RITT

November 5, 2008 9:30 PM | Link to this

Lets just say that the Bravos pull off a Peavy or Ludwick deal (really dont want to jinx these possible trades). Could you imagine the press ESPN would put on this team, either the man who COULD have been MVP last year if not for his teammate (who he, in my opinion, helped have a great 2008), or arguably the best NL SP. Wow. People who doubt this team may actually change their tune a little. Add to either of these guys a more experienced JJ and McCann (who IS the best off. C in baseball), and a lock of .315 from chipper and youll have a team that not only could, but SHOULD contend. Call me an idealist, but the 2009 Braves (with the addition of Peavy or Ludwick) can compete with ANY team in the NL East.

By David O'Brien

November 5, 2008 9:31 PM | Link to this

Siskel, I think it depends who’s dealt. Infante could be a regular shortstop, but might have more value as a utility guy. Of course, if they don’t have another SS except Lillibridge, they might decide Infante is needed there.

Just too early to tell.

By Doc Holliday

November 5, 2008 9:33 PM | Link to this

1. Blanco

2. Yunel

3. Chipper

4. McCann

5. Ludwick

6. Prado

7. JF

8. Diaz/Schafer/Anderson/BJ (whom ever wins the job)

9. Peavy/Jair/Campillo/Hampton/Hanson

By brian

November 5, 2008 9:37 PM | Link to this

DOB - in regards to the Escobar or KJ for Ludwig you said you don’t know if they would have to include something else. By they I assume you mean the Cardinals having to add to Ludwig to obtain KJ or Escobar.

Too bad we could not get Wainwright from the Cardinals in any deal

By AdirondackDave

November 5, 2008 9:37 PM | Link to this

DOB — Hate to see Escobar go but… to get Peavy, yes. Do you see Infante as a possible full-time replacement and if not, why not?

By Retch

November 5, 2008 9:39 PM | Link to this

IF WE CAN GET LUDWICK FOR KJ DO THE DEAL NOW. WHO CARES IF WE TRADE YUNEL TOO. WE NEED POWER IN THE LINEUP.

Andrew, We don’t need Edgar back!! He had the range of a tree stump when he was here and it hasn’t improved!!

By Mark J

November 5, 2008 9:39 PM | Link to this

David, I know you’re probably hearing a lot of Braves fans discussing the availability of Furcal, but wouldn’t the braves have the funding to bring him back IF Escobar was involved in a package to bring Peavy to ATL and KJ was sent to St. Louis for Ludwick? I know you said the Braves wouldn’t trade BOTH Escobar and Johnson this offseason, but could this be a plausible scenario?

By Jamie in Richmond

November 5, 2008 9:39 PM | Link to this

David O’Brien

Any idea who the Braves might target to play short should they move Esco? Are the Renteria/Furcal mentions on this blog nothing more than exuberant fan chatter, or have you heard anything to subtantiate either as options?

By MGL

November 5, 2008 9:40 PM | Link to this

DOB - Thanks very much for the consistant feedback on what’s cooking at the meetings. An excellent job.

I was fortunate to be dining on the patio of the local McD’s tonight. Had a wonderful concrete table and bench overlooking the parking lot. After dining on a double cheesburger and fries from the dollar menu, I treated myself to a Pall Mall light from my $16 per carton private stash. Those GMs have it rough out there compared to my lovely dinner.

By Salty Dawg

November 5, 2008 9:43 PM | Link to this

Sounds like the Peavy deal is holding up everything else the Braves want to do.

It is still VERY early in the trade season. Notice that there has not been a single trade yet. You can bet that any team that has desirable chips to trade is not going to jump in without fully testing the waters. They want to make sure they aren’t leaving anything on the table. The Peavy trade, whether to the Braves or not, may very well be the first deal finalized (or at least announced). And let’s not forget that starting pitching is the largest hurdle we need to tackle this off season, so if it takes some time to get a guy of Peavy’s caliber and contract, then so be it.

By DHD

November 5, 2008 9:45 PM | Link to this

Not exuberant chatter…just asking a question.

Another question, Dave:

Do we get insurance money for Hudson this coming year?

By Marty

November 5, 2008 9:45 PM | Link to this

Unless DOB says otherwise, I think it’s pretty unlikely that Renteria or Furcal coming here is anything more than a pipe dream.

By mike

November 5, 2008 9:45 PM | Link to this

is it just me or is this the most active atlanta has been in an offseason in a long time? I enjoy seeing their approach to really right this ship and put the braves back where they belong atop the NL EAST. First time posting so just gonna throw my thoughts out there. I think the braves really need to be able to capitalize on getting Peavy, and either Dempster, Lowe, etc… Getting that combination will allow Jair to develop with less pressure next year. Jair is crucial to the braves in my opinion, he is still very young and we need to really take care of him because I see him as our ace of the future. This also allows the braves to bring back hampton, and then glavine or smoltz. With hudson returning late in the year, the braves would have sufficient starting pitching to bring home the nl east. peavy, dempster/lowe, jair, hampton, campillo/hanson, then return of the old guard later in the year. i just think shoring up our starting rotation is very important this offseason, then the braves should find alternatives to left field. it’s an exciting time to be a braves fan, especially seeing all the work being done by wren and the braves organization to get this team back to where it was. thanks for all the work dave o’brien!

By Efrim

November 5, 2008 9:46 PM | Link to this

If Ludwick and Peavy are acquired, I figure we would still have something like 25-30 million to spend on any other additions the Braves would like to make. Ludwick would get a raise, but not more than 3-4 million.

By Andrew

November 5, 2008 9:50 PM | Link to this

yeah Retch trade your whole middle infield away thats pretty smart maybe you should be the GM. For Ludwick who had one good year and is older than the too. Edgar could be solid for another couple of years if on the right team.

By geauxbraves2000

November 5, 2008 9:55 PM | Link to this

Wait a second, did I read something about the Braves being interested in Jake Peavy?

Just kidding.

Geaux Braves!!

By MattyRoss

November 5, 2008 9:55 PM | Link to this

Doc Holliday,

That’s a ballsy lineup you’ve got there, what with four outfielders and no first baseman. I guess we’ll hope for fly ball pitchers, maybe tell Peavy to ditch the sinker. Also operating under the supposition that Escobar doesn’t leave in the Peavy trade. Can’t see Braves getting Towers to trade him without giving up Yunel or Hanson, though that would be great.

By Eric from MO

November 5, 2008 9:55 PM | Link to this

Jeff no shiit if we trade Escobar for Peavy and Peavy gets hurt it is a bad trade. You can say that about any trade. If it was a sure thing then there would be no need for negotiations but we have to have an ace. We cant win without one and other than Sabathia there is none on the free agent market. Sorry Burnett is barely above .500 and Derek Lowe is at the end of his career.

By McFann O

November 5, 2008 9:56 PM | Link to this

Howdy! Can’t stay long…

Hey, Fake McFann, why do you keep posting “First” using my name?

Jeff Esco having a healthy season would certainly help matters, just as we saw with McCann.

Technically, McCann hasn’t had a completely heathy season since ‘05…sprained ankle in ‘06, bruised finger, jammed knee, and ankle problems in ‘07, and bruised thigh, ankle (that was just one game), concussion, and bruised thigh again in ‘08…

Well, I’m not complaining, here. Not trying to make you give pity to my mann or anything…just pointin’ that out.

By bravos11

November 5, 2008 9:56 PM | Link to this

DOB

Since the braves will most likely trade KJ or Esco to the Padres, does that mean the braves will only be able to get Peavy and not Ludwick? Since the braves do not want to trade both infielders.

By Salty Dawg

November 5, 2008 10:00 PM | Link to this

Lot’s of people are speculating a return of Furcal should the Braves be forced to move Escobar. I just don’t see it happening. From everything I’ve heard (granted I am not an “insider” or anything, so I certainly don’t know for sure) the Dodgers want Furcal back and the feeling is mutual. I would image that for a Hispanic player being is SoCal is about as close to home as you can get. Not to mention he wants at least a 4 year contract and that is a stretch for a guy who missed most of last season due to back surgery.

By Joe M.

November 5, 2008 10:01 PM | Link to this

Doc Holliday, I really doubt Blanco will be an everyday player again next year, so I think your lineup is not gonna happen right from the start in the leadoff spot.

By Eric from MO

November 5, 2008 10:02 PM | Link to this

Retch Renteria is a fine defensive player. Doesnt have the range of Furcal but also doesnt throw the ball away. Too many times you see shortstops throw the ball over the first basemans head allowing the runner to advance. Renteria doesnt do that. He keeps himself under control. Something you obviosly cant do cause you want to trade our entire middle infield.

By Marty

November 5, 2008 10:02 PM | Link to this

This is very likely going to be the most active the Braves have been in an offseason in a while, and there’s a very good reason for it — essentially all of the Braves’ long-term contractual commitments are now gone. Other than McCann, the Braves have NO ONE signed past ‘09, I believe. More money and more flexibility equals more effort at making trades. I (and many other people) tried to tell people the last several years, when they were complaining about how the Braves allegedly don’t spend any money, that the Braves had already spent it. Well, now they finally have the chance to spend a lot more, for the first time in years.

Let’s hope Frank Wren does a good job spending.

By Salty Dawg

November 5, 2008 10:03 PM | Link to this

Mike-

Welcome to the blog. And I agree with your thoughts - this does seem like the most busy Braves off season I can recall. But it’s also the most exciting I can recall. I am really pumped that we have a chance to make some key acquisitions to right the ship.

By Apollo

November 5, 2008 10:05 PM | Link to this

Dave, Would it then be possible that we end up with both Peavy and Ludwick if it is true that Atlanta will not trade both middle infielders? I guess what I’m asking is, does a potential Ludwick deal hinge on the availability of Johnson?

By Marty

November 5, 2008 10:06 PM | Link to this

McFann O - Good to see you again, buddy.

By Bubdylan

November 5, 2008 10:08 PM | Link to this

Efrim, How can we have Peavy and Ludwick both, though, without shipping both infielders?

By Andrew

November 5, 2008 10:10 PM | Link to this

yeah Eric from MO knows the deal, im just saying cuz first we need to get Peavy which is far from a done deal. Edgar will be a FA and i think he would come back to ATL and shouldnt cost tons of money allowing them to get another pitcher and a power hitting outfielder. I know he strikes out a ton but then again so does Ryan Howard of the champions philly, but where is Adam Dunn in all this talk. Why wouldnt they consider that?

By McFann O

November 5, 2008 10:11 PM | Link to this

OK, maybe I was complaining a little, but I still wasn’t asking for pity.

BTW—That Manta Ray at the Aquarium is way cool!

Night, all.

By Efrim

November 5, 2008 10:13 PM | Link to this

Bubdylan

Good point man. Looks like one or the other if the Wren wants to keep either KJ or Yunel.

By David O'Brien

November 5, 2008 10:24 PM | Link to this

Bubdylan, I’m sure that’s one reason the Braves are trying to get Peavy without giving up Escobar. If they could somehow manage to do that, then they could perhaps choose between Escobar and KJ to send to the Cardinals for Ludwick, presumably KJ if the Cards would do it (perhaps with something else thrown in from Braves’ end, but who knows.

By Dan

November 5, 2008 10:30 PM | Link to this

Escobar has been good and has the potential to be great. You can’t trade a shortstop with that high of a ceiling who’s already had success in the majors. Even for Peavy. Use KJ to get the deal done if possible. If Towers says Escobar is what it takes to get the deal done say thanks but no thanks.

By JC from UT

November 5, 2008 10:31 PM | Link to this

If FW has thechnace to add both Peavy and Ludwick, why would he not trade both Yunel and KJ? Prado would be the 2nd baseman regardless if Yunel is dealt or not so essentially FW would only be replacing Yunel (Not saying that is a easy task). To replace Yunel or KJ why not sign a guy like David Eckstein or even go bigger and sign Orlando Cabrerra? This team needs a big shake up and Eckstein and Cabrerra are both proven winners.

By David O'Brien

November 5, 2008 10:33 PM | Link to this

DHD: yes, Braves get insurance money for Hudson. no, I don’t know how much, and Braves aren’t going to say. About 50 percent, give or take 10 percent, is probably a good guess.

As for all the questions about Furcal/Renteria: Furcal’s clearly the better player at this stage and would give you a leadoff guy sorely lacking since he left, but if there’s any chance to get either, I’d say it’s Renteria just because you could probably do it with a one-year contract. But I don’t know if Braves are ready to go back there or not, after his season last year.

Furcal’s agent is talking four-year contracts and doesn’t think Furcal’s back problems that sidelined him much of last season should even affect his value. Which is, of course, unrealistic.

But it gives you some idea of what he’ll be asking for, which at his age and with his health issues, would make probably make him highly unlikely target for Braves.

By Tomahawkin

November 5, 2008 10:37 PM | Link to this

D.O.B. Nuff respect on the Q-Tip CD Debut… Its nice when anyone refers to the old rap as the real stuff before the genre came to the point where everyone who is out now is trying to make the biggest Pop-Tart Hits

I’m Suprised that you don’t listen to that Lil Wayne, or new T.I. Stuff…

On the real, however any word of Tavares from the Rockies… I wouldn’t mind seeing him hit leadoff for us while Blanco hits eighth…but then again Braves pitchers are inept at moving runners over via the sac but. During the glory years sac bunts were a trademark of our great starting pitchers…

I suggest that in a sense that baseball is starting to return to the speed/ defense styles that we saw before the Juiced baseball/steroid era…

By Andrew

November 5, 2008 10:42 PM | Link to this

Dave you are a rockstar.

By Ryan S

November 5, 2008 10:43 PM | Link to this

Any chance the Braves trade for Edwin Jackson or Andy Sonnanstine?

By BravesFanInRockies

November 5, 2008 10:50 PM | Link to this

Tomahawkin,

Willy Taveras is a terrible player. He can run. That’s it. He doesn’t walk enough to be a leadoff hitter. He strikes out about three times more often than he walks. He doesn’t bunt well. He has no power. He’s not a particularly good outfielder. He’s also a whiner — Clint Hurdle, who’s about as easygoing as Bobby Cox, has numerous closed-door meetings with him when he publicly complained about lack of playing time.

I understand how his speed can mesmerize some people, but he’s not a good ballplayer and the Braves should go nowhere near him.

By David O'Brien

November 5, 2008 10:52 PM | Link to this

Tomahawkin, I asked about Tavares on Monday after the rumor of Braves interest, and was told it was unfounded. Nothing to it. Braves not interested.

By Clay

November 5, 2008 11:01 PM | Link to this

Well I traded for Ryan Ludwick in my mlb08 the show season. First ab double, 2nd ab Home Run. Looks like a good idea atleast for my season next year.

By StingerSplash

November 5, 2008 11:01 PM | Link to this

Think the Yanks didn’t rue not dealing Kennedy/Hughes for Johan? A stud ace like Peavy doesn’t have impact on just one game, the one he starts. His ability to go 7, 8 or 9 means he impacts the next two or three games because the bullpen isn’t spent coming in after him. And we saw what that means this year. All too frequently. The Red Sox held on to Lester and Buchholz instead of dealing for Santana and while Lester showed he’s about to be one of the, if not the, best young lefties in the AL, Buchholz may be shipped elsewhere. How about an Escobar and others package for Bay and Buchholz?

By mitchie-san

November 5, 2008 11:04 PM | Link to this

If Yunel goes and K.J. stays, what are the chances of him moving to SS? Didnt he come up as a SS? I thought I read he went from SS to OF to 2B….. If thats the case what 2nd basemen are available?

By Yars

November 5, 2008 11:05 PM | Link to this

Getting Peavy is more important than acquiring Ludwick. If we have to give up Escobar in order to get Peavy, let’s do it. After we do that, if we don’t have enough trading pieces to get Ludwick, then maybe we should focus on Ankiel.

By Doc Holliday

November 5, 2008 11:11 PM | Link to this

MattyRoss my bad……….

Blanco/Schafer

Yunel

Chipper

Brian

Ludwick

Prado

Kotchman

JF

By Wayne

November 5, 2008 11:17 PM | Link to this

DOB Concerning your 8:51pm post on KJ/Escobar not both being dealt.

If I were the GM, I would make those two moves in a heartbeat. To get a 30+ HR potential right-handed power bat and a #1 ace stud starter, I would start over again with my keystone combo.

Prado, Infante (agree he is better as a utility guy than a starter) and Lillibridge. I suspect that there are a few middle infielders out there that would do OK in a pinch if Lilly didn’t show well in the spring.

I personally can’t see keeping a both of those guys if we can truly get the OF’er and stud #1.

Heck, then offer Lillibrige and Francoeur to KC for Aviles and Teahen. Maybe they would bite. (I normally would prefer to keep Frenchy, as I think he will rebound.)

By Daniel

November 5, 2008 11:19 PM | Link to this

Ok so lets say the Braves get Peavy, and have to give up escobar to get him. WHO WILL PLAY SS????????? Im always hearing that Brent is/was a big prospect, is he capable of playing ss everyday offensivly?

By Moby Grape

November 5, 2008 11:23 PM | Link to this

On the real, however any word of Tavares from the Rockies… I wouldn’t mind seeing him hit leadoff for us while Blanco hits eighth

I find it hard to believe that the Braves could be seriously interested in such a pitiful player.The only thing he can do is steal bases and he makes far too many outs for that to be effective.He stole 68 bases and only scored 64 runs in an offensive park. Just how productive was that with his sun-.300 OBP ? Bah.

By keylargo

November 5, 2008 11:23 PM | Link to this

Mitchie - KJ was not going to make the major leagues as a shortstop supposedly. They moved him to the outfield and then to 2B.

Glenn Hubbard deserves a lot of credit for working with him for the last couple of years turning him into an above average 2B. IMHO, changing positions is one of the hardest things to do once you are at the MLB level. And KJ has done it and never complained once. I hope he stays with the team as he is an example of what a team player should be.

By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)

November 5, 2008 11:25 PM | Link to this

Trading Escobar to get Peavy is like robbing Peter to pay Paul. Which is why I don’t believe a word of it.

By Wayne

November 5, 2008 11:27 PM | Link to this

Daniel Two years ago, could you say with a certainty that Escobar could play ss everyday offensively?

Kid is a good SS defensively, and potentially a decent bat. Sometimes you gotta roll the dice on a player and see what he turns into.

“Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. Goodtime Charlie’s got the blues!”

By Moby Grape

November 5, 2008 11:28 PM | Link to this

If Yunel goes and K.J. stays, what are the chances of him moving to SS? Didnt he come up as a SS? I thought I read he went from SS to OF to 2B….. If thats the case what 2nd basemen are available?Mitchie

They moved him away from SS for a valid reason. He was absolutely terrible there. There is no chance in the world that they are going to move him back to short. Keep looking for a SS if YE leaves

By Tomahawkin

November 5, 2008 11:30 PM | Link to this

BravesFanInRockies Thanks for the 411 or your last quote

“He’s not a particularly good outfielder. He’s also a whiner — Clint Hurdle, who’s about as easygoing as Bobby Cox, has numerous closed-door meetings with him when he publicly complained about lack of playing time.”

I believe some of that 411 I thought about earlier came from MLBtraderumors.com Wasn’t he 3rd or 4th up in the Rookie of the Year voting in 05?

I had no Idea he has a Soriano like attitude in how he addresses matters on and off the field

By BravesFanInRockies

November 5, 2008 11:30 PM | Link to this

And having Blanco and Taveras in the lineup at the same time? With Francouer, too, I guess .Hellooooo, 110 losses …

By N8

November 5, 2008 11:33 PM | Link to this

Scrolled up and didn’t see this next quoted posted by anybody, so I’ll put it out there. It’s from Ken Rosenthal’s latest post on foxsports.com’s website:

“The Cubs have emerged as a front-runner in the Peavy sweepstakes, perhaps even ahead of the Braves, according to major-league sources.”

Add to that, the article stated that the Cubs are willing to trade for Peavy AND still make an offer to Ryan Dempster.

The article also said that the Cubs’ pitching prospects are farther away from the majors than the Braves are, so….

Hmmmmm… Peavy, Zambrano, Demster and Lilly.

Not bad.

Wren better schnit or get off the pot. If he really wants Peavy that bad, it appears that things are gonna heat up a bit.

By N8

November 5, 2008 11:36 PM | Link to this

“Trading Escobar to get Peavy is like robbing Peter to pay Paul. Which is why I don’t believe a word of it.”

I’ll assume you’re talking about Peter, Paul and Mary? What’s that? Not them.

Well then you must be talking about taking money from Peter Criss to pay back Paul Stanley? What’s that? Not them either?

I don’t get it. Never mind.

By N8

November 5, 2008 11:36 PM | Link to this

“Trading Escobar to get Peavy is like robbing Peter to pay Paul. Which is why I don’t believe a word of it.”

I’ll assume you’re talking about Peter, Paul and Mary? What’s that? Not them.

Well then you must be talking about taking money from Peter Criss to pay back Paul Stanley? What’s that? Not them either?

I don’t get it. Never mind.

By MiamiBrave

November 5, 2008 11:37 PM | Link to this

Hey DOB

I would definitely take a risk on Edgar if you trade Esco.

Wouldn’t you say from what we’ve seen from Edgar that the dude is just an NL guy, always solid for the Marlins, Cards, and Braves, hasn’t cut it in the AL with the Sox and Tigers, or are you thinking age had something to do with it this time around in the AL?

I do believe Furcal will price himself out of our range, BUT if our ACE and powerhitting outfielder come via trade, I would think there could be some extra fundage left to sign someone to a position that wasn’t one of the 3 key holes we are trying to fill

Still like most of you don’t see it happening, but man, what a leadoff hitter does for a team, that cash would be well spent….

I have not enjoyed a Braves offseason like this one in a long time…finally some money to spend

By BravesFanInRockies

November 5, 2008 11:40 PM | Link to this

Tomahawkin,

He did get a fair # of ROY votes in 2005, largely because of the stolen bases. But he’s played in two of the best offensive parks in the majors through his career (Houston and Coors) and other than the steals, he hasn’t produced.

You’d think a guy batting leadoff in a hitters park would score 100 runs a year, easy. Yet he’s scored 64 each of the last two years. He’s never had more than 19 doubles. Heck, a guy with that speed oughta get 8 or 10 bunt doubles a year.

Anderson and Blanco are better players and are cheap. Neither’s my ideal leadoff hitter, but they’re better than Taveras.

By N Nine

November 5, 2008 11:44 PM | Link to this

Jamie, the signing-bonus money for Tazawa is from a different pile of cash than the major league payroll DOB

Since the total amount probably wouldn’t be too much higher than the bonus. would that mean only a very small amount of actual payroll is used? That is, assuming he accepts that particular deal.

Is that the same “pile of cash” we are putting aside for Glavine/Smoltz . The money that doesn’t count towards total 09 payroll?

By BravesFanInRockies

November 5, 2008 11:51 PM | Link to this

N8,

Rosenthal’s good, but if his sources aren’t blowing smoke up their laptops, then Towers is a genuine flake.

It looks like the Braves can offer several big-league ready players and the Cubs are talking about guys who are a year or more away.

If I’m with the Pads, I can understand writing off 2009 as a rebuilding year, but 2010 and potentially 2011 as well? Good luck with that.

By cameron

November 5, 2008 11:51 PM | Link to this

Well Im Glad To Hear That We Might Be Close To Getting Ludwick.

My Wishful Thinking Lineup & Rotation Would Be..

1. Brent Lillibridge SS(If Escobar Is Traded)
   
2. Ryan Ludwick CF
   
3. Chipper Jones 3B
   
4. Adam Dunn LF
   
5. Brian McCann C
   
6. Casey Kotchman 1B
   
7. Jeff Francoeur RF
   
8. Martin Prado 2B
   
9. Jake Peavy P

Rotation
1. Jake Peavy
2. Ryan Dempster/AJ Burnett
3. Jair Jurrjens
4. Tommy Hanson
5. Hampton/Glavine/Etc..

This sounds like it could be reality what do you think?

By mike

November 5, 2008 11:52 PM | Link to this

everyone seems to have the perfect solution to what the braves should do. i’ve always put my trust in the hands of bobby cox, john s., and now frank wren. when it comes to making smart baseball decisions, atlanta seems to always be in the mix. whatever road this club takes, i’ll support it to the fullest because thats what a dedicated fan does. i live in the philly area and these fans here make me sick. talk about front-runners. clearly, peavy will almost make or break our offseason. no pitcher out there can equal his importance to the braves that we have heard the braves are after. it’s not realistic to think we can get CC. here’s to hoping a peavy deal gets done soon to relieve all of our worries about our ace for next year. go get’em frank!

By mike

November 5, 2008 11:52 PM | Link to this

everyone seems to have the perfect solution to what the braves should do. i’ve always put my trust in the hands of bobby cox, john s., and now frank wren. when it comes to making smart baseball decisions, atlanta seems to always be in the mix. whatever road this club takes, i’ll support it to the fullest because thats what a dedicated fan does. i live in the philly area and these fans here make me sick. talk about front-runners. clearly, peavy will almost make or break our offseason. no pitcher out there can equal his importance to the braves that we have heard the braves are after. it’s not realistic to think we can get CC. here’s to hoping a peavy deal gets done soon to relieve all of our worries about our ace for next year. go get’em frank!

By uga-brave

November 5, 2008 11:52 PM | Link to this

i dont think anyone in the braves organization questions escobar’s ability. what they do question is his mental make-up.

the rap on him all through the minors was great tools questionable attitude. the guy no doubt has all the tools to be plus plus shortstop but you never know what is going on in his head.

that being said i would hate to see him go, but if you get the chance to get a TRUE #1 starter you gotta make the move.

peavy’s current contract is below the going rate for number one starters and if you do get to the post season power pitchers usually dominate.

By brad

November 5, 2008 11:58 PM | Link to this

Hey people wake up. Last year it was all Escobar… dam he is good. Spring training, HOLY SHT all the talk maybe MVP. First half of the season, who was better? Gets hurt, still plays better def. than any other NL SS, and because his off. stats go down (but still above avg.) yall want to trade?????? WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE. It seems all other teams want Escobar but yall. WE are talking center piece deal with peavy?!!!! doesnt that say something, SHT maybe he is, no I no he is that good. A bird in the hand is better than 2 in the bush. GREAT SS ARE JUST AS RARE AS GREAT PITCHERS. WE HAVE A GREAT SS, SO WHY GO BUSH-HUNTING.

By The Goche

November 6, 2008 12:06 AM | Link to this

Wow! Lots of real info today! That’s kind of hard to come by at these kind of meetings. Great work DOB.

I’d bet no other fans in baseball have this much knowledge of what’s goin on.

Seems like half of the posts on MLBTR lately are citing you. You’ve got more info on one team than Olney, Rosenthal, etc. have on the entire league.

By Bubdylan

November 6, 2008 12:07 AM | Link to this

brad, not many of us are taking the loss of Escobar lightly. It’s just that some of us think it might be worth it.

By mitchie-san

November 6, 2008 12:08 AM | Link to this

I didnt realize he was that bad a SS. I am amazed they even considered him for 2nd if that was the case….hmm.

By Johnny B

November 6, 2008 12:12 AM | Link to this

Greetings all!

Don’t ya just love this stuff! Again, thanks DOB you are the man! I think you gotta do the deal for Peavy…I hate seeing Esco go as much as anybody but aside from CC who else is out there as a FA who can compare and come at such an affordable price? Dude is a legit #1 and guys we all know if you ain’t got the pitching you just ain’t gonna go far. If we lose Esco we give little bridge a shot in spring training, we can always plug Infante in at SS if it doesn’t work. Although, I agree with DOB that Infante may be to valuable as the super sub that he is. I would be willing to do the trade and go for a defensive stud with a light stick to bat 8th at SS. Strong defense up the middle makes good pitch great pitching..That said, we would definitely have to pick up a big stick #4 type hitter for LF.

I think it is way early to be giving up on “Frenchy”..Give the guy a chance to see if he can make the adjustments and find some plate discipline before we run him out of town. As someone said earlier and I agree, I don’t see his trade value bringing us anyone we could plug right in to the starting rotation or line up.

Just curious DOB, what are you’re thoughts on “Frenchy”? Is it strictly mental and can he adjust to the adjustments the league has made on him? D o you think its the contract situation or lack there of that’s contributing to his struggles? Do the Braves come back this spring with a multiple year offer or just play it out through the arbitration years if he stays with the club?

By Marty

November 6, 2008 12:21 AM | Link to this

Yunel Escobar is 26 years old and has played a season and a half of pretty darn good ball at the major-league level, but there remain questions about his makeup. His defense also wasn’t all that good last year — 16 errors in 126 games for a fielding percentage of .974, below the league average of .976.

Peavy is a known quantity — a true #1 starter who is dominant; a Cy Young winner and a guy who has a career ERA of 3.25 and whose ERA was under 3.00 in 4 of the last 5 seasons…and he’s still only 27.

The two players just are not comparable.

By Erik

November 6, 2008 12:27 AM | Link to this

Ken Rosenthal’s latest blog entry now says the Cubs are the front runners to land Peavy. According to Rosenthal the Braves had a window of exclusivity but failed to complete a deal. The Padres are now leaning towards the young pitching offered by the cubs.(Even though ours is better) Just as well I feel much better about a KJ for Ludwick swap. There are other pitchers out there. The Free agent market has several #2 and 3 starters and maybe the braves can look to the trade market for another potential 1. I still think Greinke could be a possibility. I would love to see a deal with Fenchy, Flowers, Morton, Locke, sent out there for Greinke. In that scenario we have two holes filled for under ten million and We have no hole at SS. We can plug Prado in at 2B. We then can sign a FA right fielder like Adam Dunn for about 15 mil a year as well as Lowe for about 16 a year. Our Lineup then could be

(1)Anderson/Schaffer/Blanco (2)Escobar (3)Chipper (4)Ludwick (5) Dunn (6) McCann (7) Kotchman (8) Prado

Rotation would be (1)Greinke (2)Lowe (3)JJ (4)Campillo(why has he been left off your lists or projected rotations, He had a sub 4 ERA in 160IP last year) (5)Hampton/Smoltz/Rookie

Hanson WILL NOT BE READY at the start of the season. More than likely he will be a post all star break addition.

If you cant get an ace you need to up your run production. That Lineup gives 4 guys with 25-30 HR power and 2 with 35-40 HR power including a guy who has hit 40 HR in each of the last 3 seasons. That lineup would have massive run production potential. That Rotation would also have the potential to have 4 guys with a sub 4 ERA. That would be a nasty teams.

By David O'Brien

November 6, 2008 12:34 AM | Link to this

JohnnyB, I think it’s probably a few things with Francoeur, who had a bad year but certainly can rebound from it and return to at least be the player he was the previous year and probably significantly better.

He needed to (and said as much) lose the bulk he put on last winter and get in better baseball shape (not football shape). But more importantly, I personally think he needs to consistently be more patient (aggressive still, but patient, which is a fine line), and has to be diligent about trying to use the entire field and not get pull-happy. He needs to make adjustments to pitchers who adjusted to him the past couple of years and know how to get him out by exploiting his overaggressiveness (at times), by getting ahead in the count and getting him out on breaking pitches away.

And no, I don’t think his contract status has much to do with his struggles, though it’s certainly possible that he pressed too much early on last season to try and prove he’s worthy of a long-term deal. And sure, perhaps after he got in a hole early because of pressing, he might have tried too hard to get out of it. So I guess I might have just contradicted myself to a degree. But it’s late.

Oh, and no, I can’t see the Braves giving him a multi-year deal before next season, not after what happened this past season.

By Coach ( Skip and Pete will be missed)

November 6, 2008 12:35 AM | Link to this

Looks like the Cubs are now the favorites to get Jake Peavy, per Ken Rosenthal

By brad

November 6, 2008 12:38 AM | Link to this

Marty Here we go about stats agian. Hey look up Furcals stats when he was young, with the range he had, and (close) still has and the errors he made. Go ahead!!!!! HMMM, look like Escobars???, YEP they do. Stats mean nothing when you have range. Stats are something that bloggers BIT*C about, while the athletic ability is what the GM’S want.

By Taylor S

November 6, 2008 12:39 AM | Link to this

DOB… There is an article by yahoo’s Tm Brown that says the Braves are so optimistic about getting Peavy they are working to replace the players they would send to Sandiego in the deal. Are we that close ?

By Jim

November 6, 2008 12:39 AM | Link to this

Wouldn’t it be great to have Maddux, Smoltz, Glavine and Cox all retire at the same time so they all can be admitted to the Hall of Fame together on the same day? I think it would be awesome.

By J.D.

November 6, 2008 12:40 AM | Link to this

DOB, Rosenthal is reporting the Cubs have moved ahead of Atlanta in the Peavy sweepstakes? Is that what you are hearing?

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8761340/Sources:-Cubs-pursuing-RHPs-Peavy,-Dempster

By Foo Fighter

November 6, 2008 12:41 AM | Link to this

I just read that Ken Rosenthal says the cubs are now the front-runner to land Peavy. Frank Wren had Peavy practally given to him and he screwed it up. All he had to do is give up Tommy “mmmbop” Hanson and he didn’t do it. This Hanson guy could very well go on to be the greatest pitcher of all time. But he could just as easily wash out of baseball next year and be forced to work at olive garden. He isn’t a sure thing. But Jake Peavy is a sure thing. I bet if John Schuerholz was gm he would of got Peavy. Anyway, if we do get Peavy or if Hanson turns out to be an amazing pitcher. Then I take back everything I just said. Until then my statement stands.

By Andrew

November 6, 2008 12:41 AM | Link to this

Dave what just happend to make the cubs front runners now??

By ORbravesFAN

November 6, 2008 12:43 AM | Link to this

Right on DOB!

If Frenchy can just get back to hitting the ball to right like he did in 07, he will start coming around. Like many have said there is a difference between Frenchys early agressiveness when he first entered the league and confused like he showed much of this year. If he continues to be pull-happy we will have another AJ on our hands, only this one does not field as well.

By Steve from OH

November 6, 2008 12:44 AM | Link to this

brad:

There are a lot of stats far better than fielding % that say that Escobar is a top-notch fielder. But I’m sure those are garbage, too? Yeah, GM’s totally ignore those. Make trades based on their gut, becuase that’s how real men trade.

By BravesFanChris24

November 6, 2008 12:47 AM | Link to this

DOB

With the recent development of what Rosenthal reported about Cubs apparently becoming front runner, does that mean it lessen Braves’ chances at getting him or will Braves find a way to get Peavy?

By Moby Grape

November 6, 2008 12:48 AM | Link to this

His defense also wasn’t all that good last year — 16 errors in 126 games for a fielding percentage of .974, below the league average of .97

Huh? He is rated in the top 5 defensive shortstops in MLB by every evaluator out there. Number of errors alone is an absurb way to rate an infielder

By Tomahawkin

November 6, 2008 12:48 AM | Link to this

BravesFaninRockies Thanks for the data. For some reason ESPN had him hyped up a couple of years ago…

Someone suggested it awhile ago, but how do u feel about Hunter Pence in the “A”…?

We can’t afford to trade for a 1-yr rental like Holliday…

And from my perspective we need to spend the 09 season in a rebuilding mode if we lose out on Peavy…

By HeywardTheFuture

November 6, 2008 12:50 AM | Link to this

screw Peavy. Now we can get Ludwick.

By ORbravesFAN

November 6, 2008 12:51 AM | Link to this

The Braves are the favorite to get Peavy, the only reason people are saying the Cubs are now the favorite is because Towers is trying to scare the Braves into a better offer. Rosenthal even says the Braves have the best package to offer, everybody knows it and the Padres just want to try again to drive up the price. Peavy will be on the mound in Phillie up against Cole.

By David O'Brien

November 6, 2008 12:53 AM | Link to this

So I clicked on that Kenny Rosenthal link, and I see this paragraph:

The Cubs have emerged as a front-runner in the Peavy sweepstakes, perhaps even ahead of the Braves, according to major-league sources.

Funny how different people can read into things what they want to read into them.

Examine the paragraph closely.

Kenny’s writes that the Cubs have emerged as a frontrunner — not the frontrunner, mind you, but a frontrunner — and adds perhaps even ahead of the Braves.

No problem there. He has a source telling him that it’s possible the Cubs are even ahead of the Braves.

The problem occurs when the statement is ready and turned into a definitive by someone else, which Rosenthal clearly didn’t intend for it to be.

“Looks like the Cubs are now the favorites to get Jake Peavy, per Ken Rosenthal,” writes Coach above.

Not to pick nits or anything, but no. No, that’s not what Kenny wrote.

By Bubdylan

November 6, 2008 12:56 AM | Link to this

Mr. O’brien, we’re having a Cubs Freak-out Party. Little help?

By Ronald Millsaps

November 6, 2008 12:58 AM | Link to this

FRANK WREN, PLEASE READ THE FOLLOWING:

We don’t need trades. We don’t. We do not. We do not need trades. Please don’t pull the trigger on any. (My repetitiveness isn’t meant condescendingly.) I follow this team perhaps more thoroughly than anyone else, and this team FINALLY hit fifth gear late in the season. Please note that the Phillies won their three series quite easily but were beaten soundly by the Braves in the last regular-season matchup of the year. Please don’t trade Kelly Johnson, Yunel Escobar, or Jeff Francoeur. Honestly, doing so would be quite foolish. Johnson has been misused in the lineup throughout the vast majority of his time here and has a rarified swing that said mishandling has impeded; Escobar has the potential to be one of the best shortstops ever—offensively and defensively, and Francoeur just had a down year. To send him to Kansas City would be highly premature and somewhat insulting to a local guy. (It also wouldn’t do much for your constituents—fans, whose revenue is wanted and needed by the team.) The Braves have $40 million available. Fine. Use it. Forget about trades; just use it. Offer C.C. Sabathia $23 million and the rest to Adam Dunn. Sabathia’s presence would take pressure off the rotation (which is pretty good, actually) and the overused bullpen, and Dunn’s presence would supply a lot of power that was lacking in 2008. He might strike out a lot, but honestly, his strikeouts would be welcomed in comparison to Mark Teixeira’s exorbitant double-play tendency last season, and his aforementioned power swing would drive in a lot of runs that have been left on base— not a bad formula against all these one-run losses. He also would take pressure off of Chipper and everyone else in the lineup and could lead to a ten-point increase in batting averages per hitter for a team that already hits very well… which returns me to an earlier point: This team already is pretty good. It really is. Injuries decimated this team, and 2008 really, in many ways, should be thrown out in terms of flat statistics. Losing John Smoltz, Tom Glavine, Peter Moylan, Tim Hudson, and not having Mike Gonzalez, Mike Hampton, etc. for substantial parts of the season is not just substantial but downright overwhelming. Honestly, we’re fortunate that Francoeur had what MOST LIKELY should be the worst season of his career this season—and he regained his swing down the stretch. Why trade him now? Also, Josh Anderson developed as a true leadoff man down the stretch and has the hitting prowess, intelligence, and speed that a leadoff man should have. Follow him up with Escobar, Chipper, Dunn, McCann, Francoeur, Blanco, and Johnson, and you have absolutely no need for Ryan Ludwick. Trust me. My lineup brings me to another earlier point: Why has Johnson not batted lower in the order more often? Bobby’s an amazing manager, but Charlie Manuel, for example, has him beaten offensively. The Phillies go from first to third better than anyone else…hands down. This team simply hasn’t executed that well, and to trade proven players or prospects would lead to more overlooking of offensive flaws—a rare fault that this great team has shown over the years, as it tends to have a laissez-faire approach to offense and put all the pressure on the pitching and defense. As amazing a manager as Bobby is, he probably could do more with the lack of offensive chemistry this team has displayed—-again, a lot of hits, a lot of runners left on base. This team finished third in the NL in hits but didn’t win half its games. That scenario is problematic. It needs to execute better, run more, and be smarter. (Brandon Jones reluctantly broke for second in the ninth inning of a game late this season and got tagged out for it….I’m not picking on him; this example is just one of many.) The result: another double play. How many double plays did the Braves hit into in ‘08? How many men did they leave on base? How many double plays did Teixeira himself hit into while he struggled for most of his time here this season? How many one-run games did this team lose? How many times did it seem to lack cohesion? (The hit total has been rather “postmodern”…contradictory.) September actually was quite an improvement, and this team has other talent that I haven’t addressed, such as Omar Infante, Martin Prado, etc.. Honestly, some of the finest hitters in baseball are on this team, and if we ignore the problems I just addressed, I don’t care who arrives in what trade; it likely will prove to be a smokescreen for the real problem, which, aside from injuries, has been poor execution. Again, I wouldn’t trade anyone. I would sign a proven pitcher, preferably Sabathia (by the way, the Braves are a first-class organization whose history speaks much louder than recent downfalls). Sabathia would listen to you. Dunn would like to play here. This team has a lot to offer free agents. Let’s not assume the grass is inherently greener on the other side and trade away our core talent. I said on one of the postgame shows in 2007 that this team should make a push for Brad Lidge because his stock was down only temporarily; I know a little about what I’m talking about, and if Francoeur struggles in ‘09, I’d move him to the “two” hole—a la Jayson Werth—as opposed to dropping him in the order, where he’ll see fewer pitches and will be pressured to press. I would not trade Escobar, Johnson, or Francoeur. Again, the talent is here; the overall health and execution have not been.

By Erik

November 6, 2008 12:59 AM | Link to this

Tomahawkin With all due respect I think you are dead wrong. This will most likely be Smoltzy’s last year and could be Cox’s last year as well. I think we owe it to both of them to at least give them the hope of a playoff run.

Lets send them out in fashion.

If we can trade for and/or sign pitchers to the top 2 spots then we should have the top 3-4 spots filled in our rotation for the next 4 or 5 years. Not to mention Hanson, Tazawa(if we get him), and Rorhrbrough coming up in the next couple years. That gives us some time to let our farm system recover and develop depth again.

By Coach ( Skip and Pete will be missed)

November 6, 2008 1:00 AM | Link to this

The three reasons why the Cubs really do have the inside track on Jake Peavy.

Rich Hill

Sean Marshall

Jeff Samardzija

All three are major league ready. Any two of them would instantly fit into the Padres rotation.

By mitchie-san

November 6, 2008 1:03 AM | Link to this

Thanks for clarifying DOB. I am guilty of reading it the other way too…

By David O'Brien

November 6, 2008 1:05 AM | Link to this

Erik, J.D. Andrew … oh, nevermind.

By Mike

November 6, 2008 1:08 AM | Link to this

DOB I would like to know your opinion or any speculation you may have on the following…(to do this lets assume the bravos land Peavy, sign Tazawa, and sign Hampton, Glavine, & Smoltz)

If we do get Tazawa and Peavy, do you feel that in the Bravos mind that consitutes our 2 pitchers that we wanted? If so then he would obviously spend at least part of next season in the minors. That being the case then we would have a rotation of Peavy, JJ, Hampton, Glavine, & Hanson/Reyes/Morton/Campilio for part of the season. Maybe that would prove to be a decent rotation that we could contend with at least for a bit in hopes that Tazawa would come up mid year and help out. Now this is where it could get dicey… If they do intend on getting another pitcher after Tazawa (lets say for arguments and examples sake…Dempster), then the real issue becomes 2010… Lets assume that Hampton does well and we pick an option on him (if we offer him a 1 year with an option), and Glavine retires, and we pick up Hudson’s option with intent to resign (I know, alot of ifs). Then 2010 could be very clustered… Peavy, Hudson, Dempster, JJ, Tazawa, Hampton, and Hanson. Thats 7 guys that should/could all start. Now of course thats alot of ifs, and we would probably have to trade some or not resign some, which of course wouldnt be Peavy, JJ, new FA pitcher (Dempster), Tazawa, or Hanson. I just hope that if Hudson comes back to form from surgery that we keep him. He just seems to be a born Brave. And if he regains dominance like he was showing and like he had in the AL, then he would be an ace we should do everything we can to hold on to. With Peavy, JJ, and a correctly projected Hanson & Tazawa, we could be talking about a rotation to rival the big 3 of the 90’s. Like I said, its all pure speculation to pass the time, and I am sure Frank Wren isnt looking at what he would do if he has too much pitching in 2010. I was just curious as to what you thought. Thanks again for the great blogs!

By David O'Brien

November 6, 2008 1:08 AM | Link to this

BravesFanChris24: See above.

If you, too, want to take what Kenny said and interpret it as you see fit, well, then how could it not lessen the Braves’ chances. If another team’s now the frontrunner, then Braves must not be anymore, right?

Of course, that’s not what he said. But whatever.

Dude, I wrote what I know in my story. It’s posted on our website, and my comments are also interspersed above throughout this blog’s comments section.

Tim Brown wrote his story on Yahoo, apparently saying the Braves believe they’re going to complete the deal (I haven’t read it yet, just saw Taylor refer to it).

I’m done responding to something that Kenny did not say. It’s not fair for him, and it’s a waste of time for us all. If he’d written that the Cubs ARE the frontrunner, not that a source of his believe they might be, that’s one thing. But that’s not what Kenny wrote. Read it, not someone else’s interpretation of it.

By Ronald Millsaps

November 6, 2008 1:08 AM | Link to this

runners* left on base

By ORbravesFAN

November 6, 2008 1:09 AM | Link to this

Ronald

WOW!

By David O'Brien

November 6, 2008 1:09 AM | Link to this

Erik, J.D. Andrew … oh, nevermind.

By BravesFanChris24

November 6, 2008 1:10 AM | Link to this

DOB

I didn’t mean any disrespect by what I said. I just clearly misread what Ken said. After you examined what he said, I looked at it again closely and saw what you said and now I get it.

I guess I’m just so anxious about this whole thing, that I misread it and thought the worst that it would lessen Braves’ chances.

I’m just going to calmly follow this, so there’s no more misunderstandings or anything and hope for the best.

By Falcons do not need Hall

November 6, 2008 1:12 AM | Link to this

Ron—

Great post…totally agree with you!

By Falcons do not need Hall

November 6, 2008 1:12 AM | Link to this

Ron—

Great post…totally agree with you!

By N Nine

November 6, 2008 1:12 AM | Link to this

Ronald Millsaps you are a Team-hugger!

Also, Josh Anderson developed as a true leadoff man down the stretch and has the hitting prowess, intelligence, and speed that a leadoff man should have

not really

By Coach ( Skip and Pete will be missed)

November 6, 2008 1:16 AM | Link to this

Only David O’Brien would call that article anything or than what it is.

Front runner means first.

Ahead of the Braves means, well. AHEAD OF THE BRAVES.

The Padres initially granted the Braves an informal window of exclusivity. Thats interprets as lost opportunity.

The teams have been unable to reach an agreement on players. Um, HELLO. Earth to O’Brien, the Braves are now on the back burner.

By Earth to O'Brien

November 6, 2008 1:25 AM | Link to this

Note Mr. O’Brien: The coach is always right. God Bless Coochie and his powerful knowledge! When Coach speak thou shall listen.

By Andrew

November 6, 2008 1:28 AM | Link to this

jake peavy will be wearing the tomahawk across his chest next year, we just need to chill out.

By Erik

November 6, 2008 1:28 AM | Link to this

DOB

My most sincere apologies for starting a slew of misinformed posts. In my haste I rushed to post here rather than check the original source first. I do let my emotions get the better of me at times and I am sorry to have inconvenienced and led the other readers astray. I am tremendously thankful for your consistent Braves updates. You go above and beyond most sports journalists and for that the entire AJC Braves community is thankful.

By David O'Brien

November 6, 2008 1:29 AM | Link to this

If we do get Tazawa and Peavy, do you feel that in the Bravos mind that consitutes our 2 pitchers that we wanted?Mike

No, Tazawa is more like a high first-round draft pick. Very high, as in top of first round. Although he could get to the majors fast, Braves certainly wouldn’t plan on him being up right away.

Just as Smoltz, Glavine or Hampton wouldn’t count among the two pitchers Wren aims to get this winter, neither would Tazawa.

By Ron in mobile

November 6, 2008 1:32 AM | Link to this

Jeff Samardzija and Sean Marshall are good young pitchers. Samardzija might even be great one day.

Rich Hill though, not so much. He spent much of this season down in double and even single A. He did have some good games in 07, but basically lost the game 3 for them against Arizona. I remember one curveball in particular that hit a guy in the thigh,subsequently loading the bases. Then they showed Lou Pinella in the dugout with the vains bulging out of his neck…funny stuff

If the cubs offer Marmol and Theriot/Fontenot in a package. Im not sure we could beat that. I think Marmol has the best stuff on that team(Zambrano included)

By David O'Brien

November 6, 2008 1:33 AM | Link to this

Coach, you just demonstrated clearly that you can’t or won’t grasp nuance or subtlety in writing. There is no gray area with you. Just black and white.

If you really read what Rosenthal wrote and interpret that to mean the Braves are now “on the back burner” in the Peavy situation, well, I don’t really know what else to say. I mean, really, that’s what you take from what he wrote?

Hey, it’s all good. Nothing personal. Read things and interpret as you see fit. Cubs could certainly become the favorite and land Peavy. But that’s not what Kenny wrote in that blog entry. He wrote that a source told him they might be the favorite. Significant difference.

By Ronald Millsaps

November 6, 2008 1:33 AM | Link to this

“n nine”—Actually, that’s “really”, and no, I don’t make non-objective statements about my team; disagree all you want, but Anderson did very well at leadoff.

I identified several problems this team had, some of which seemed to be overlooked. Making a blanket trade for Ryan Ludwick, especially when it would involve trading core talent, is not the answer. (My method also involves keeping our prospects.)

Bill Parcells has talked before about how you can’t fix a problem if you don’t identify it first. Trading for Ludwick sounds good intrinsically but doesn’t address this team’s lack of chemistry and execution.

It’s 1:31 a.m.. Long day. Typing that long e-mail was a great unwind.

By Coach ( Skip and Pete will be missed)

November 6, 2008 1:33 AM | Link to this

I hate blowing holes in the hopes of the Braves fan faithful, but I’m not gonna run through life with blinders on.

The Cubs just won their division with 97 wins and went to the playoffs. They are pitching deep.

Our Braves just finished the most disastrous season since 1990. Losing 90 games and finishing fourth withing the N.L. East. The Braves pitching is in shambles.

And I’m supposed to believe that the Braves are ahead of the Cubs and everybody else in the Jake Peavy sweep stakes? Right and Barack Obama is the next Messiah.

By Andrew

November 6, 2008 1:41 AM | Link to this

Dave, Just in your opinion tell me what the braves rotation will be next year?

By Tomahawkin

November 6, 2008 1:45 AM | Link to this

Erik My man, It’s early, and who knows if either Smoltz or Glavine will pitch next year ( there are many intanigibles coming back from season-ending injuries, especially to pithchers in their 40’s)

And Ur quote…

“If we can trade for and/or sign pitchers to the top 2 spots then we should have the top 3-4 spots filled in our rotation for the next 4 or 5 years. Not to mention Hanson, Tazawa(if we get him), and Rorhrbrough coming up in the next couple years. That gives us some time to let our farm system recover and develop depth again.”

Dude, No offense, but you are a serious optomist…Mostly everything that happens in the off-season is in a domino effect style, while I like your Ideas I seriously think 2009 will be a rebuilding year for Dem Braves; Especially since the Phillies “Are the Team to Beat” and the Mets will come correct, since the mets will have extra revenue because they are moving into a new ball park. And if they lose out in the offseason on the big cats, expect the Mets to make a big July deadline deal…

However, Its early in the offseason, I’m gonna go back to listening to my old 80’s R&B (Al B Sure, The System, among others) * D.O.B. * What you Know about that old Smooth R&B…?

By Andrew

November 6, 2008 1:45 AM | Link to this

Go Obama

By Coach ( Skip and Pete will be missed)

November 6, 2008 1:49 AM | Link to this

O’Brien, it’s all good. I hope you are right. But until I see Jake Peavy in a Braves uniform, I’m not gonna lose any sleep over it.

By Ronald Millsaps

November 6, 2008 1:55 AM | Link to this

“coach”—The Braves firmly ARE the frontrunners, but that’s not necessarily a good thing. We need to keep Escobar, Johnson, and Francoeur, and trading another prospect might not be the answer, either.

Jake Peavy’s terrific, but there are other options. Use the $40 million to acquire C.C. Sabathia and Adam Dunn—and we need ownership to be passionate, not cavalier. Ted Turner was the former when he owned the team.

By Ronald Millsaps

November 6, 2008 1:55 AM | Link to this

“coach”—The Braves firmly ARE the frontrunners, but that’s not necessarily a good thing. We need to keep Escobar, Johnson, and Francoeur, and trading another prospect might not be the answer, either.

Jake Peavy’s terrific, but there are other options. Use the $40 million to acquire C.C. Sabathia and Adam Dunn—and we need ownership to be passionate, not cavalier. Ted Turner was the former when he owned the team.

By David O'Brien

November 6, 2008 2:00 AM | Link to this

Coach, this thing is fluid. If Cubs are actually willing to give up some of those top young pitchers, they’ll get Peavy, no doubt. Just don’t know if they’re willing to give up that much to get him.

Other teams on Jake’s list probably don’t have enough young pitching talent to pull off the deal. Cubs do, if they’re willing to give it up. So do Braves.

By Bravestillidie

November 6, 2008 2:03 AM | Link to this

::Sees the sign hung around Coach’s neck reading “The End is Nigh” and walks the other way not making eye contact::

Coach…its ok to be optimistic on occasion, its also ok to admit when we are wrong or make mistakes.

To quote Obi-Wan “Only a Sith deals in absolutes.”

By Bill Clinton

November 6, 2008 2:03 AM | Link to this

Really, it depends on what Rosenthal’s definition of “is” is.

By N Nine

November 6, 2008 2:04 AM | Link to this

Coach

What the hell are Braves suppose to do??

For days now, repeatedly on and on you have been bashing how “disastrous” our pitching is.

Are we going to just drop dead and give up, since we have terrible pitching?

Didn’t someone get hurt this year?

So what Cubs had 97 wis to Braves 90 losses. 08 is over my friend!!

Pitching for contenders? He already picked Atlanta as a suitable city.

I just don’t understand you.

Rumors will always be part of life for the fun and for added advantages.

This Cubs rumor doesn’t worry me one bit. Thats nature.

I’m more than comfortable with DOB’s hands on judgements than some lame article.

Peavy is coming to Atlanta!!!!!!!..like it or not…Amen

By mitchie-san

November 6, 2008 2:12 AM | Link to this

Why spend $40mil on two players? I say spend it AND make trades. There are more holes to fill than most people think. I read every post on here and honestly believe people dont want to make trades because it might be their favorite player. There are players on the Braves that I never would want to see leave, but if it means I dont have to suffer another 90 loss season…then bye-bye. You can always reload with players you trade for. Case in point, Kotchman. Thats precisely what the Braves did in his case. I am sure Frank Wren knows what he is doing and is not going to do something stupid. I cant see him trading Yunel and then asking himself “now what?” I really dont think he wants to trade Yunel, but if he has to, he will and I will be OK with that. Bottom line, do what ever it takes to win now and not keep you fingers crossed that someone will emerge from the farm or on the team and become an ace or a 30+ HR guy. If can get them instantly….get them.

By Nick

November 6, 2008 2:14 AM | Link to this

DOB, it doesn’t surprise me a lick that the Cubs have emerged as A frontrunner, along with Atlanta, in the Jake Peavy sweepstakes. Honestly, for those of you who feel as though our time to acquire Peavy has ended, did you really feel as though the Pads would just jump all over a Braves offer that did NOT include either of our two top prospects?

The Pads HAVE to ATTEMPT to get some kind of leverage from somewhere, considering it sounds as if they have no choice about dealing Peavy THIS offseason, and with his no trade clause, they only have a few teams to consider dealing with. To me, the reports of there only being TWO teams that Towers is in deep negotions with, bodes even well for our chances of landing him. In my opinion, the cubs are doing all they can to make the Braves wink prior to the Winter Meetings. Since it’s been confirmed that the Braves and Pads have had conversations concerning Peavy that do NOT include TH, or obviously JH, I’m betting that the Padres at least want to get a player like Jordan Schaeffer to go along with Escobar, and a prospect or two. The Braves are probably looking at a package centered around Escobar, with the likes of Medlen and Rohrbrough as the pitchers the Padres get in return. Maybe even Morton instead of Rohrbrough. I’m betting that, in the end, the deal gets done with the Braves, hitting some sort of medium. Hopefully, Schaeffer stays put.

DOB, does this sound anywhere near right? Would it not surprise you if the Padres didn’t try to get some sort of leverage from somewhere else with a pitcher of this magnitude being dealt?

By Bobby's Cox

November 6, 2008 2:23 AM | Link to this

I’d rather take Ludwick for KJ than Escobar for Peavy.

Just not that comfortable with Peavy’s arm.

Rather sign Burnett and the Tarzawa dude, than to give Escobar away for Peavy.

You just don’t give away an everyday player of Escobar’s talent for a guy that pitches once every 5 days who has twice a history of elbow issues.

Especially if you can trade KJ at a position of strength, for Ludwick to fill a position of weakness (LF), while having a decent replacement for KJ, and not Escobar.

Burnett/Dempster, Tarzawa, JJ, Hanson could be a viable top 4 along with Hampton. Peavy obviously would better, but if it takes Escobar, the cards don’t fit.

Just my opinion.

By Ronald Millsaps

November 6, 2008 2:26 AM | Link to this

“mitchie”—You have to examine things carefully. It might look to you like extensive repairs are needed, but if this team seriously did acquire Sabathia and Dunn, the effects would be amazing.

Can you imagine a rotation of Smoltz, Sabathia, Campillo, Jurrjens, and Glavine (Hudson returning in August)?

This team could use some more pop in the lineup, as Brian McCann was the only guy who provided it consistently in ‘08. Francoeur’s RBI total should return to normal next season, and he probably will hit 30-35 homers. Chipper and McCann should combine for 50-55. Dunn’s an all-or-nothing swinger, like Ryan Howard, but I’d take the home runs over Mark Teixeira’s double plays and inconsistency—and I’m glad Joe Simpson pointed out the need for Teixeira to play well during all six months of the season, not design his workouts to have him ready for July-postseason only.

Dunn’s a game-changer. So is Sabathia. Two players might not sound like a lot, but their returns would be a lot.

About time for me to call it a night.

By Calvin

November 6, 2008 2:31 AM | Link to this

Is there any possibility of the Braves making smaller trades to get two pitchers?

Maybe sending a few guys to Chicago for Javier Vazquez.

Then check in on Francisco Liriano maybe?

what do you guys think?

i just dont want to come out of this offseason with a couple of good pitchers, a slugging outfielder but no middle infield.

Sure Lillibridge is supposed to be a great defensive shortstop and we have options at 2B with Prado and Infante but i seriously think the Braves will regret that decision when next year KJ and Escobar hit 20 HR’s each for another team and continue to do so for the next few years that they are cheap.

Also what about Tampa Bay? apparently they have an abundance of Pitching and a need for something lol

By David O'Brien

November 6, 2008 2:34 AM | Link to this

All’s well, as my man Mario Chalmers had a franchise-record nine steals tonight for the Heat. Solid rookie.

By Erik

November 6, 2008 2:37 AM | Link to this

Tomahawkin

I agree that my views tend to be optimistic. I remain confident that Smoltz will return. Smoltz has more determination than sense sometimes. I am convinced he will come back. He has the heart of a champion and a work ethic we should all aspire to have.

As for the rotation. JJ and Campillo are under control for a few more years. If we were to sign a FA starter or two it would more than likely mean we have them for about 4 years(Brunette, Lowe, and Dempster will all take at least 3-4 years)

That would give our rotation stability for the next 4 years or so. Yes I conceded 1 or 2 might suffer an injury or simply wont pan out but in that case we have Tazawa(if we can sign him), Hanson, and Rohrbrough that should be ready in the next couple years.

By mitchie-san

November 6, 2008 2:43 AM | Link to this

I can imagine that rotation, in a severe optimistical way. Smoltz? Love the guy, but he might not come back. Glavine is the same deal. Those guys are old and broken. Campillo? Who was he this time last year? Playing in Mexico, thats where. He cant be relied upon to achieve the success he had next year again.Not to mention he started to slip towards the end of the year. And Jair certainly is real good, but remember, he aint proven yet either. He is a rookie! That leaves you with C.C. as the only one who can perform as projected. What if he gets hurt and the other things occur in the rotation I mentioned, where would be be? I would jump off a cliff…… Make trades, get more proven starters. I am all about getting C.C. but there are more the Braves have to do…. Getting only C.C. would be like buying a Ferrari and forgetting your other bills.

By dave

November 6, 2008 2:51 AM | Link to this

Hey guys, I know everyone’s set on getting peavy by now, but he isn’t quite ideal. I think trading Yunel is a mistake here. He’s a very cheap and elite option at an important position.

Peavy is an elite option, but he is only a little below market price. He has some injury concerns, and we have to hold onto him for 4 or 5 years. His home/road splits are an obvious concern, and his peripherals were down last year, possibly an indication that he’s on a decline. His playoff performances have also been terrible to date.

Yunel is a very good shortstop, he’ll continue to be cheap, and we can find starters as free agents while our draft pick is protected. If we keep Yunel, we can move KJ for ludwick and slip Prado in at 2B, which would improve our defense, and add a cheap controllable power hitting righty. There is no such easy solution for losing Yunel.

It sounds like the price for Vazquez is not too high, and we may be able to get him without giving up very much. He has a very cheap contract, with only 2 years on it. His numbers will only get better when switching leagues, I think he’s a solid option for us.

I think the big problem with trading for Peavy is we’ll give up prospects and still pay a steep salary for just one guy. I think what we should do is trade whatever it costs (with a few exceptions) to get Matt Cain . He’s young, with ace potential, he’s shown it in the big leagues, and he’s signed (ridiculously) cheaply. And he’s proven to be quite durable as well. I’d really rather have him at his age than peavy at his, and he’s significantly cheaper salary-wise. To me, that would be worth giving up a lot for.

Going after Cain and Vazquez instead of Peavy would cost about the same amount of money next year, will fill 2 holes instead of one, and gets us the younger ace for the future. And in prospects we shouldn’t be giving up too much more. We’d still have about 20mil to spend and bring in one of the FA pitchers.

We’d be able to fill 3 SP holes, our LF hole, keep our star SS, and most of our top prospects too.

Am I crazy thinking we have the depth to pull this off?

Even if you think I’m crazy, humor me, what do you think it’d take for us to get Cain? and Vazquez?

By Tomahawkin

November 6, 2008 3:02 AM | Link to this

Erik As much as I love Smoltz and Glavine, they can not be relied on to be the durable (ready to go to war) pitchers they were 10 years ago…Look at Maddux for example, If he was the same caliber pitcher he was 5 years ago the Dodgers would’ve had him start in one of their playoff games, instead of being a reliver…

Seriously I don’t think our rotation as well as our lineup will not be complete til February.. (Unless we get Peavy and Ibanez/Abreu)

It’s way too early to tell…Love talking opinions to ya…BTW

Aight D.O.B. I’m listening to some old 80’s Jazz (Paul Hardcastle, and Herb Albert) Where U at…?

By David O'Brien

November 6, 2008 4:06 AM | Link to this

Tomahawkin, you’re right, which is why Braves aren’t counting on Smoltz or Glavine. Smoltz probably more likely to come back in a setup/part-time closer role than starter. Glavine still up in the air whether he’ll even pitch again.

Oh, and may I suggest some Nina Simone tuneage this late at night. Or Billie Holiday.

By mitchie-san

November 6, 2008 4:21 AM | Link to this

My sentiments exactly. Isnt that what we tried to do this year? We all know how that came out.

By RedandBlack

November 6, 2008 6:01 AM | Link to this

Hello,

The Braves need to keep ball players that can hit the ball. Chipper, McCann, and Escobar can hit the ball. Any trade involving Escobar is ridiculous unless it brings a proven quality .300 hitter or better. Trade Kelly Johnson and get whatever the Braves can for him including a box of hair.

The Braves should try Renteria again. He hit extremely well for Cox and the Braves just two years ago. He is a ball player. He and Escobar played well before together back then, and they can do it again. Furcal can work too, but Renteria is the better more consistent hitter for average.

Yes, the Braves need some good strong, young arms, but do not trade Escobar. His stock is good and rising. Francouer is the player who’s stock is falling and he would be a better candidate to trade than Escobar right now. Move him instead for Peavy. Do not risk our good young arms or Escobar, but make the deal somehow else. Good luck to you, Mr. Wren, and land the plane. We are all counting on you. Go Braves. Go Dogs!!!

By Jeff R

November 6, 2008 7:04 AM | Link to this

Wren is keeping focused here by making pitching the team’s off-season priority. We’ve had this discussion and debate many times before on this blog, but it’s pitching and defense that wins most games. Yes, teams need offense, but it doesn’t have to be a Murders’ Row (as in murdering the opposing pitching).

Granted, giving up Escobar in a deal for Peavy means losing a good defensive shortstop (despite last year’s mental lapses). Up-the-middle-defense ranks higher than defense on either side of the field, so, here again, Escobar would be missed.

But Wren is thinking a little more long range for the team. As others have written, he’s looking to 2010 and beyond. Not that he doesn’t want to be competitive next season, but he’s starting to position the club to contend as it moves into the new decade.

DOB reports that the Braves aren’t interested in taking Greene off Towers’ hands. That’s a good thing. Lillibridge is an option. He’s better than he played last season, though, as we all know, he doesn’t have Escobar’s bat. Then there is Renteria. If the Braves could sign him to a year’s contract, that might do the trick in the short haul.

Peavy would be a great addition. His arm is a legitimate concern, but if it checks out, then swapping Escobar for him makes good sense.

By Original Jon

November 6, 2008 7:28 AM | Link to this

Bobby’s Cox

Since when does a few times on the DL for arm issues constitute as a history of elbow issues. You would re-sign Smoltz wouldnt you? And he has had a ton or arm issues.

By Original Jon

November 6, 2008 7:43 AM | Link to this

Rosenthal says, and I quote ‘The Cubs’ young pitching is not as close to the majors as the Braves’ but still is attractive to the Padres, sources say’

To me, that almost sounds as if this is just a lie made up to get Wren to hurry up and do a deal with better players. Because Towers has said all along that he wants players that are close to being major league ready, so this makes no sense.

By Original Jon

November 6, 2008 7:50 AM | Link to this

According to Mark Feinsand of the Daily News Sports ‘According to a source, San Diego wants at least two pitchers and an outfielder in exchange for Peavy.

That doesnt fit at all what we have been hearing. So maybe Morton, Medlen and Schafer?? Keep Esco and trade KJ and a prospect for Ludwick?

By Marty

November 6, 2008 8:05 AM | Link to this

There was so much silliness posted on here overnight that I don’t even know where to start, but I’m going to try.

Coach - Your misinterpretation of plain English words is astounding. The article clearly says that the Cubs “have emerged as a frontrunner.” In English, the use of “a” instead of “the” means that the Cubs are one of the teams which currently are frontrunners, in the mind of Ken Rosenthal’s source. Just in case there were any question about the ambiguity of this assessment, Rosenthal added, “possibly even ahead of the Braves.” Adding the word “possibly” further makes it clear that the broad perception is, as DOB has reported all along, that the Braves are the current frontrunners in the Peavy sweepstakes, but that recent developments have led Rosenthal’s source to believe that this Cubs might now have pulled in front. I’m sorry to be condescending, but you just spent hours arguing incorrectly about the definition of clearly-written English.

dave, Ronald, and everyone else who thinks that Yunel should be considered untradeable - I don’t know where you folks came up with the idea that Yunel is an “elite” shortstop in the major leagues. He was pretty good in his first year-plus, but he has also been wildly inconsistent at times and has shown a tendency to make silly errors. For those of you wanting to compare him so badly to Furcal and wanting to chalk Yunel’s immaturity up to being “young,” keep in mind that Furcal was 22 when he came up (even after adjusting for him lying about his age). Yunel is now 26.

Peavy is a known quantity who has been a star pitcher and an ace for several seasons. Although there is always the risk of an injury with pitchers, he has NOT shown a tendency to be injured and, as far as we know, there is no reason to believe he will be injured in the future.

The point is that we’re not talking about trading Chipper Jones in his prime — or if we are, I just don’t see how anyone could know that yet. I watch the same games as (some of) you do, and right now Yunel looks pretty good, but not great. Wlil he become great? Maybe — but Peavy already IS great.

Adam Dunn is NOT a great hitter; he is a great power hitter. There is a reason that no contending team wants him. He can hit bombs, but he otherwise essentially can’t hit. Walks are great for a guy higher up in the order, but you want your cleanup guy to be someone who puts the ball in play. As I posted in an earlier blog, most of Dunn’s home runs are hit with no one on base, and both based on stats and my own personal observations, Dunn is much more likely to strike out or walk with men on base than he is to get a hit of any kind. Adam Dunn also hits for significantly less power on the road (.497 SLG) than in that launching pad they call Great American Ball Park (.540 SLG). This makes even less sense for a team like the Braves, who would essentially be counting on Dunn as their sole power source.

Lastly, I believe it was dave who mentioned the Braves getting Matt Cain. I don’t believe that’s a realistic option, but if it were, I would totally support that. Vazquez also would be a decent target, although I expect that he will be very overpriced. The problem with a guy like Vazquez, which further highlights the value of Peavy, is price. Peavy is locked in at a bargain (relatively speaking) price for the next 4-5 seasons.

By Shaun

November 6, 2008 8:37 AM | Link to this

Marty, Adam Dunn does the two most important things while at the plate with regard to creating runs: He gets on base and he hits for power. Dunn’s weaknesses are that he is of little use anywhere defensively and on the base paths.

By 22oz

November 6, 2008 8:42 AM | Link to this

For those with XM, Francouer will be on MLB Home plate at 8:45 this morning. Wonder if he’ll talk about how he loves Kansas City?

By Harry

November 6, 2008 8:53 AM | Link to this

In the infamous words of the late Cardinal Egan, “which doesn’t belong and why?”: Lucinda, DBT, and Q-Tip?

DOB: Q-Tip? Seriously?

I put Infante at short. Dude can handle the bat, hits every ball on a rope, and can hold his own at short.

By DAP

November 6, 2008 8:56 AM | Link to this

marty His[escobar] defense also wasn’t all that good last year

sorry, marty. no. escobar might b the best defesive SS in the league, and was ranked #3 by the fielding bible, i believe. he is extremly good defensivly.

and you cant compare peavy and escobar, thats true. duh. one is a pitcher and one is a SS.

By Efrim

November 6, 2008 9:02 AM | Link to this

If the Braves do trade Escobar to the Padres in the Peavy deal, I would hope that they would bring in another option other than Infante and Lillibridge. I like Infante as a utility infielder and Lillibridge as the same.

By Billy Walsh

November 6, 2008 9:03 AM | Link to this

What are the criteria that defines a great hitter? Although Dunn is a liability in the field, doesnt hit for average, and strikes out a ton, he will hit 40 home runs, drive in a hundred, score a hundred, walk over a hundred, and have a high on base percentage. He is the epitome of a power hitter. Although the braves will not sign him, he would solve many problems that the atlanta outfield had this season. Instead of trying to trade for an older Ryan Ludwick who has only proven himself for 1 season, why not look at Adam Dunn. I know Ludwick is cheaper, and Dunn would cost a ton, but why not consider it. You wouldnt have to trade a middle infielder (i.e. Escobar or johnson) and could package one of them to acquire Peavy.

By flange1

November 6, 2008 9:09 AM | Link to this

Good Morning All,

Quite and entertaining night on the old MIB blog, huh?

Spent the last couple of hours catching up!

A couple of quick thoughts:

Is now the time to trade Frenchy? He still has value this year. It is true he COULD rebound, but another bad year and he has little value. I remember all of the talk all year long about his approach being poor and him relying on athletic ability. Can he turn it around? Should the Braves RISK letting him?

It kind of reminds me a bit of Andruw before he reached 10 and 5. Many here thought we should have traded him then. The Braves didn’t and the market dried up.

Should we trade him now? Not sure…..

On Escobar, I like the passion that Yunel plays with. Like his defense and like his offense. I do think he has some attitude issues, but he is a young man!!

I would hate to trade him, but you have to trade something to get something. I don’t want to trade Escobar and Schafer, but again you do what you have to do.

In terms of Adam Dunn, he is a power hitter that walks a lot. But he is LH. If the Braves trade Escobar, signing Dunn just makes the team more LH and without a Frenchy resurgence, the team is WAY to LH.

PASS ON DUNN!

In terms of CC, I would love to have him. I don’t think 23 million for 6 years will get it done. We have too many holes to spend this much on one pitcher.

If I was the Cubs, I would forget Dempster and Peavy and sign CC. Can you imagine a rotation of Zambrano, CC, Harden and Lilly?

Brutal…….

By mike

November 6, 2008 9:18 AM | Link to this

Ronald and others, Sometimes you need to give to receive. In other words, getting Peavy and losing Escobar is a tough decision. If we factor in how beat up and over-whelmed our starting rotation was last year, I think getting Peavy needs to be taken very seriously. It’s also very unrealistic to consider the braves having a legitimate shot for CC. Not even mentioning his preferred destination, the Yankees and other teams will throw a large sum his way in which I do not feel the braves can compete. Yes, escobar has star potential. Peavy has that same potential that has already manifested itself for a couple years now. ALSO, price-wise, Peavy is a steal for a guy of his caliber. Last year jurrjens was the one starting pitcher we turned to to have a solid outing. I said this before, we need to take less pressure off of him and some of the younger starting pitchers to let them taste the big leagues. We need to make this deal for Peavy, and start the dominance again, with our starting rotation. Look at what Hamels did for the Phillies in the post-season. Look at what Rollins did. Starting pitching is far more valuable come october. In regards to Adam Dunn. He will be overpaid for the amount of homers he hits. One thing the braves do not do is spend money foolishly. Braves management uses its resources wisely to build their team, and hopefully this offseason we build what was our weakness last year, our starting pitching, then work on other areas that needs improvement.

By 22oz

November 6, 2008 9:20 AM | Link to this

Highlight from Francouer interview on XM: He’d like to see Andruw back in CF for the Braves. Lets all take a moment and be thankful that he is not the GM.

By Threadkiller

November 6, 2008 9:21 AM | Link to this

Billy: I say we need both Dunn & Ludwick! What a line up that would be:

Prado Ludwick Jones Dunn McCann Kotchman Frenchy Johnson

We would have to us Frency in CF to make it happen,,

By VaBravesfan

November 6, 2008 9:24 AM | Link to this

The Cubs could get Peavy, Sabathia, and sign every available free agent but they would still find a way to lose.

By NickC

November 6, 2008 9:28 AM | Link to this

Just a quick note on Coach’s suggested pitchers from the Cubs.

To get Samardzija to give up football, the Cubs had to give him a no trade clause. It would be surprising to see him included in any deal.

By Efrim

November 6, 2008 9:29 AM | Link to this

Arizona Republic:

[http://www.azcentral.com/sports/diamondbacks/articles/2008/11/05/20081105spt-gmmeetings.html]

The Diamondbacks have interest in Atlanta second baseman Kelly Johnson but don’t believe they match up well in a trade with the Braves, who are seeking a right-handed power-hitting outfielder. The Diamondbacks have considered trying to include a third team in trade discussions to satisfy Atlanta’s needs.

I can’t imagine the Braves getting Peavy without giving up one of Hanson, Heyward or Escobar. Since Hanson and Heyward are off limits, Escobar is probably going to be in that trade. So the Kelly Johnson to this team or that team doesn’t really hold up to me until the Peavy deal is completed.

Of course if the Cubs get Peavy, which I guess is possible, then Johnson is probably on his way out of town and the Braves will try to keep Escobar.

Way too early for that kind of speculation though. It probably could go hundred different ways. Playing out these scenarios is what makes the hot stove season fun.

By Anders

November 6, 2008 9:31 AM | Link to this

Lew

Now did the Mets get a deal? Absolutely. Did they need to acquire Johan? Again, absolutely. Did he perform as expected? Absolutely, yet a again. Did the deal come about because of some supposed master strategy put in place by Omar Minaya? No way. It fell into his lap because the Twins GM was greedy and misjudged the point where the other suitors withdrew their offers and walked away.

From your post last night. You missed a very important part of last year’s negotiations. The Twins asked for Reyes and other higher prospects initially while it appeared the Yanks and Sox were in play. Could Minaya have panicked and over paid to beat the Yanks and Sox to Johan?- absolutely. Especially as you say because the Mets absolutely needed Santana. So I think Minaya does deserve credit for reading the market correctly and he apparently did have a plan that came to fruition. So you go ahead and keep telling yourself that Minaya woke up one morning and found Santana out in his driveway next to the paper while all the great minds in baseball reside down in Atlanta and everbody else is “and idiot”.

By matt

November 6, 2008 9:32 AM | Link to this

My 2 cents: I would hate to see KJ AND Yunel go, but if that’s what it takes to get Peavy and Ludwick, I say do it. Ludwick could make up for most of the HR, RBI numbers lost by KJ and Yunel. Maybe Braves can find a good replacement at SS (I’m not all that excited about Furcal or Renteria, for different reasons), but if not, why not give Lillibridge a try? Like some of you have said, we had great teams with Belliard/Blauser types at SS. I think Prado has proven that he deserves a shot at playing everyday.

With those two deals, you still have $$ to get a pitcher, SS, another OF, or some combination thereof.

Like I said, hopefully we don’t lose both KJ and Yunel, but don’t think it would be the end of the world.

By McFann O

November 6, 2008 9:38 AM | Link to this

Marty—

Thanks!

22oz—

Good grief…

By Run DMC

November 6, 2008 9:41 AM | Link to this

Hey David. Any chance that if the Escobar proposal gets the deal done that F******* comes back to Atlanta to fill the SS position? Sure would be nice to replace Escobar’s arm with one of similar strength, while also getting a bona fide leadoff hitter back in the lineup.

By Sparky

November 6, 2008 9:41 AM | Link to this

Let’s hope we don’t overpay for Ludwick! One career year doesn’t justify giving up a young stud at SS!

By DAP

November 6, 2008 9:52 AM | Link to this

frenchy must want andruw back to make himself look not so bad.

By Shaun

November 6, 2008 9:54 AM | Link to this

In terms of Adam Dunn, he is a power hitter that walks a lot. But he is LH. If the Braves trade Escobar, signing Dunn just makes the team more LH and without a Frenchy resurgence, the team is WAY to LH.

What is “too left-handed”?

I know there are valid reasons for the Braves to stay away from Dunn but is that one of them?

Dunn is still pretty good in his career against lefty pitchers.

And has the Braves offense and offenses around baseball been worse when they are left-handed heavy? I think that’s the question we have to answer before we worry about whether a player would make the team too left-handed heavy.

By tim

November 6, 2008 9:55 AM | Link to this

Ah, this blog…stopped reading for a while to give myself a break from all the ranting and raving. Now I can see that the smartest baseball person in the world-Coach is still at it..You sir, are the single reason why I scroll past everyones posts to read only DOB’s. But it sounds like this place is your only refuge while the rest of us have real lives with real people who enjoy the details of the fine game of baseball balanced with a healthy life outside this little comment box..Please take the time to get outside once in a while..There are all sorts of colors and shades of gray in the world outside of your bunker..

By Lew

November 6, 2008 9:55 AM | Link to this

Anders-Whatever. I just don’t think Omar is that effective a GM. With all of the money the Mets’ and their fans think they have (and SHOULD have pulling in 4 million obnoxious fans), why was Omar doing stupid things like offering Castillo, whose legs were shot to hell when the Mets picked him up as a late season acquisition (THAT was a decent move) a multi-year contract? How long did THAT last?

If Omar was so good and they had all that money, then why did Omar rely on Moises yet again (after Moises lost a half season due to chronic injury at age 40 something), knowing what everyone should have known-he would go down again. How about relying on an aged and infirm Pedro and El Duque? And don’t bother holding Smoltz and Glavine up to us either-we had money issues to deal with. Supposedly the Mets had whatever money was left over after the Yankees and Red Sox split the rest.

Sorry Dude, this breaks down two ways that I can see-1. Omar is not that great or 2.The Mets really don’t have all the money that so many think they do (and blew their load on Johan). Were either of these two suppositions false, then the Mets would have made the necessary deals or added the correct late season add ons that would have given them three successive Division Titles and at least one World Series Title.

How exactly, did that shake out? Choke One. Choke Two and Choke Three. Three chokes and they’re out. See Ya.

By David O'Brien

November 6, 2008 10:03 AM | Link to this

Yes, indeed, it was an interesting late night on the blog. Wish all you regular sleepers had been here….

Best wishes on a full recovery to Merle Haggard, who had surgery for lung cancer. Sounds like he’s going OK, all things considered. In stable condition. They removed a cancerous growth….

Harry: Yes, quite serious. Q-Tip’s good. I can appreciate music in most any genre. Hey, I love to listen occasionally to a Mario Lanza CD that I own. And a Tom Jones live album. And Ted Nugent’s Cat Scratch Fever (still got a handful of his albums on vinyl). Funkadelic’s One Nation Under a Groove (and a handful of theirs). Or about a dozen Sinatra albums and CDs. And the Cars’ early stuff… OK, you get my point. All over the board.

I didn’t always lean as heavily as I do now in the direction of rootsy rock/country/blues, though that’s been my favorite stuff the past couple of decades.

By the way, if you ask Lucinda I bet she’d tell you she digs Q-Tip. No, seriously. I think I read she likes some hip-hop from his era; remember when she did a little rap on that song “Wrap My Head Around That” on the West CD? (OK, so it was perhaps ill-advised, but she did it.)

By Efrim

November 6, 2008 10:04 AM | Link to this

This from Buster Olney’s blog this morning(speculation of course):

So at some point, the Braves and Padres may well strike a deal built around shortstop Yunel Escobar, center fielder Jordan Schaefer, pitcher Charlie Morton, and one more pitching prospect. The Padres are known to have interest in left-hander Jeff Locke, a 20-year-old who pitched in Single-A last season.

I think that is too much. I know, the whole offseason has to play out, and the Braves have the whole winter to fill those areas, but still. Too much given up there.

Escobar, Schafer, Morton and Locke is too much. I think my main problem is that you are now creating two holes. I know Schafer didn’t play in the bigs last year, and wasn’t a guarentee to play up there this year, but come on. He was going to get an opportunity in June(latest). You can’t play Blanco/Anderson and Lillibridge/Infante at CF and SS. At least that is my thinking. I don’t have a problem with giving up Charlie Morton and Jeff Locke. They want 2 starters. We aren’t giving up Hanson, Rohrbough, Teheran and Delgado. All are considered to have higher “ceilings”.

Just think we should keep Schafer, that’s all. Gotta give up Escobar, I understand that.

By Clay

November 6, 2008 10:04 AM | Link to this

Just imagine if we do the trade for Peavy. Say we give up Escobar, Morton, Schafer and Low pitching prospect. Then do the KJ for Ludwick trade. Royals said if they can’t get a Grinke extension they might look to trade him. Put an offer in of Francoeur, Jo Jo, Gorkys and Medlen. Sign D. Lowe after that. That leaves us with a rotation of Peavy Grinke Lowe JJ Campillo

After that when then sign any shortstop for cheap or keep Lillibridge. Maybe a Renteria for 1 year and 5 million. That would leave us to find a right fielder somewhere with a trade or FA.

Lineup of 1) Blanco/Anderson 2) Renteria 3) Chipper 4) Ludwick 5) McCann 6) Kotchman 7) RF bat 8) Prado

If i am doing my math correctly would could do all the at because Peavy +15 Grinke trade is a wash and Ludwick trade is a wash money wise. Sign Lowe for 1owe for 15 mil a year. That is +30. Sign Renteria for 5 mil. +35 With 10 mil left we could either add Smoltz Hampton RF Bat or Ohman. Maybe it won’t match money wise but I am thinking it would. Tell me what you all think? Even by all these trades we keep Hanson and Heyward.

By Anders

November 6, 2008 10:12 AM | Link to this

Lew

Omar’s teams have finished 1, 2,and 2 the last three years. The last two out by a game each. I’m thinking he doesn’t have to apologize to anyone. Has he made some bad decisions? sure. Who hasn’t? The Braves imploded last year because they relied on two geriatric pitchers and a 3rd baseman who can’t play more than 120 games. A closer and CF’er with injury histories and a 1st baseman who historically takes two months to get loose. A Left fielder who can’t hit righties and a neophyte SS. Who’s decisions were those? By the time Hudson went down they were finished already. Stuff happens. But when it happens to your team it’s bad luck, when it happens to the Mets it’s bad management. Get a grip.

By McFann O

November 6, 2008 10:12 AM | Link to this

OK…I’ll say it…the Reaper was kinda deserving of the Gold Glove. Only 2 errors…328 putouts…7 assists. But I say Hunter Pence shoulda gotten one. Check these numbers out: 1 error, 340 putouts, 4 DP (The Reaper turned 2), and he was tied for the league-lead with 16 assists. Pence had a .997 FP to the Reaper’s .994.

Not saying the Reapers didn’t deserve one, just saying Hunter Pence did. Not to mention the Astros made 16 fewer errors than any other Major League team, according to ESPN.

By AuburnBrave

November 6, 2008 10:13 AM | Link to this

DOB,

Here’s where some discrepency on the Ken Rosenthal article my be coming from.

On MLBTradeRumors.com the headline states that Ken says the Cubs are now the frontrunner, then links to his blog where he states they ‘might” have passed the Braves.

Hopefully we can still pull this off, I know I am going to be extremely disappointed if it doesn’t happen, but maybe not surprised. I mean these days, Auburn, the election, this past Braves season… whats one more disappointment?

By Shaun

November 6, 2008 10:15 AM | Link to this

Royals said if they can’t get a Grinke extension they might look to trade him. Put an offer in of Francoeur, Jo Jo, Gorkys and Medlen.

If that’s true, I would think the Royals would want more; possibly something like a package built around a prospect or young player with superstar potential (one of the top two or three players in the game at his position in his prime). I think it’s safe to assume Francoeur, while he very well could become a good player, will never be a superstar.

By David O'Brien

November 6, 2008 10:15 AM | Link to this

If you want to conjure a crazy image, read the story (on our current ajc.com “most popular stories” top five) about the woman who ran a mile with a rabid fox attached to her arm, biting her. Unbelievable.

By mbatl

November 6, 2008 10:16 AM | Link to this

Don’t know if all saw DOB’s article on the Braves’ page (I know I sometimes forget to read the “news” and skip straight to the blog), but anyway, from that article:

The Braves are known to have expressed interest in Cubs free-agent pitcher Ryan Dempster. Other possibilities are Derek Lowe and A.J. Burnett, but each could command a salary higher than the Braves are willing to pay.

Sounds like Dempster is the top target among the high-end F/A pitchers (which is okay with me). Of course, if the Cubs can’t land Peavy, they’ll probably make Dempster an offer he can’t refuse.

By flange1

November 6, 2008 10:16 AM | Link to this

Shaun,

Let me expand on Dunn,

In 2008, the Braves were not a good team against LH pitching, but they were worse after Tex left. With Frenchy stinking it up, they had NO RH power except for Chipper and the only RH hitter of note was Escobar.

IF Frenchy does not rebound and IF Escobar is traded, we still need RH power.

Dunn is LH.

As you say, Dunn is a good power hitter and he does take his walks. He is a below average OF and a below average base runner.

He is a decent player and if Frenchy was not a question mark as a RH power hitter, would be a nice addition.

But I don’t see it as a wise move to have your LF, CF, 2B, 1B and C all be LH. Sorry, you can argue with me all you want with what ever split info you can come up with, it is just not a wise way to set up a team.

By bryan

November 6, 2008 10:23 AM | Link to this

Not to mention Q-Tip was on the 2nd to last REM CD - note that the whole album Around the Sun was ill advised - except for that song.

By Anders

November 6, 2008 10:24 AM | Link to this

DOB

Why would Peavy accept a trade to Chicago but not NY? I get the Atlanta, Houston and even to some degree the St. Louis part but Chicago and not NY?

Can’t be a pressure thing - I mean who has more pressure than the Cubs? (Obama aside). Style of living is basically the same. Just wondering.

As you said yesterday the Yanks would absolutely up the ante on his contract and with his elbow history who wouldn’t want to lock that in now?

By David O'Brien

November 6, 2008 10:24 AM | Link to this

AuburnBrave, thanks for the explanation. Yes, that does often happen, a headline can take things a bit beyond what was actually written by the writer (we don’t do the headlines; well, I write my headlines on this blog, but that’s not the case with most stuff you read online or in print.)

By LT-A blogger

November 6, 2008 10:26 AM | Link to this

I’m hoping (bit time) the Escobar + upper pitching prospects for Peavy doesn’t happen. If I thought the Braves were just 1-2 players away from being a WS contender, I’d do it. From what I’ve seen, they aren’t. It seems like more of plugging one whole and opening another. This all smacks of giving BC one last shot at riding off into the sunset on a white horse.

From my perspective, the biggest hole on this team last season was the OF. G Blanco and J Anderson are good bench players, but no way they are everyday players. They gotta keep Schafer and give him a shot.

Otherwise, they’re banking that Franceour will completely rebound. If he doesn’t and you have G Blanco or J Anderson in CF, I don’t see Peavy or Ludwick making any difference (sans Escobar or KJ).

I say keep the young top pitching prospects and go out and sign some lesser FA pitching and tell JJ he’s going to be the man at the top of the rotation. Move KJ back to LF and let Prado play 2nd. Put Schafer in CF and let the dude play. Roll those dice- not Escobar + 2-3 solid prospect for one guy.

Albeit an Ace. An Ace whose splits on home/road are not that great and never pitched 1 complete game the year he won a Cy young. I know complete games may be over-rated, but in my book you’re not a true Ace unless you can do it for 9 innings- Peavy can’t.

Peace

By McFann O

November 6, 2008 10:29 AM | Link to this

Oh, and it’s nice to see Yadier win, but I still say uh…Jason Kendall shoulda won. He led the freakin’ Major Leagues in innings played at catcher…He caught 41 outta 96 guys stealing—a robust 43%! 43%? Are you freakin’ kidding me? How could he not win one?

Yes, Yadier caught 35%…but he only had 52 guys run off him (he was 18 for 52. Mind you all these stats I’m giving you include pick-offs by the pitcher because the websites don’t separate the two).

Hey, no offense to Yadi…I have nuthin against him (and I really like his name…good catcher name). But IMHO Kendall shoulda won. 96 guys ran on him…but that’s nothing compared to the ONE-HUNDRED TWENTY GUYS THAT RAN ON OUR CATCHER!! 120??? And 93…Whoops…gotta go…

By GermanBravesFan

November 6, 2008 10:31 AM | Link to this

Unreal story about the fox and the jogger! not sure whether to laugh or feel bad, but I guess it all turned out alright, so I laughed!!

By N8

November 6, 2008 10:32 AM | Link to this

mbatl

“Of course, if the Cubs can’t land Peavy, they’ll probably make Dempster an offer he can’t refuse.”

Go read Rosenthal’s article on Foxsports.com (the one that the pizzing contest is circled around).

Ken (I’m not his buddy, so I don’t feel comfy calling him Kenny), states that the Cubs would like to acquire Peavy AND retain Dempster.

Where’s Ted Turner when you need him?

Imagine what they’ll do when (if) Mark Cuban buys them. He’ll make Steinbrenner look like a cheap skate the first few years he owns them, IMO.

By Lew

November 6, 2008 10:33 AM | Link to this

Maybe it’s all these years here on the DOB/MIB/BBQ Blog listening to my Buddy, Negative Nathan (N8), but I’m going to take a shot at being less than positive myself.

Do some of you not realize the situations with Smoltz, Glavine, Hampton and Hudson? Really? Don’t you?

First of all, what part of Smoltzie and Glavine saying they do not know now and may not know whether or not they will be ABLE to pitch again until December or later? What part of Smoltz saying that he would likely go back to the pen IF he were able to come back is incomprehensible?

What part of Hudson not coming back until LATE August do y’all not understand? What part of the interminable discussion we have had continually over the past three years about the recovery time for starting pitchers from TJ surgery do y’all not understand? Y’all do realize that the recovery time is often 1 1/2 years, which would make him available in 2010 and not after the All Star Break?

What part of the fact that Mike Hampton will field other offers from other teams do y’all not understand? What part of Hampton is not going to be had for $1 mil a year do y’all not understand? What part of Hampton possibly making between $4 and 8 mil (and maybe in a multi year deal) do y’all not understand?

Another conception that also puzzles the hell out of me is re-acquiring Furcal. What part of him wanting a four year deal do y’all not understand? What part of him missing almost an entire year due to back problems (the gift that keeps on giving-ask Mark Kotsay) do y’all not understand? What part of watching his atrocious fielding during the playoffs do y’all not understand?

And finally-what part of Prado and Infante constituting the best bench we’ve had in years do you not undestand? What part of them not being considered starting material and more valuable as bench players do y’all not understand?

Misconceptions have always abounded here on the blog. It happens. Submitting unrealistic trade proposals (Need I mention Coco, Baldelli, and Carl Crawford and Ryan Freel to name a few) is a major past time of MIB Bloggers. We know that. But Good God Almighty people, stop and think for just a second. Use logic (I know y’all can do it if you try). Use common sense (I know y’all could do it too, if you tried real hard). Listen to what the experts (Wren and other Braves Brass) tell you (they might give you insight into their thought process). Listen to DOB (he has the ear of several of the aforementioned experts). If you do that then maybe, just maybe, you’ll put away some of the ridiculous notions that are abounding on a daily basis and frolicking through the AJC advertisements here in cyberspace.

Hey, this negative thing may have some potential. I feel almost empowered. Move over Nathan. I may be coming home to the Dark Side.

By Shaun

November 6, 2008 10:33 AM | Link to this

I don’t see it as a wise move to have your LF, CF, 2B, 1B and C all be LH. Sorry, you can argue with me all you want with what ever split info you can come up with, it is just not a wise way to set up a team.

flange1, how do we know it is “just not a wise way to set up a team”? Seems to me that would depend on the individual hitters, the home park and maybe other factors I’m not even thinking of. Seems like a rather hasty generalization without even looking into the facts. Maybe you are right, maybe you are wrong.

Look at a team like the Red Sox. They discovered in 2002 or 2003 that they fair better with more left-handed hitters in the lineup and have been lefty-heavy ever since. And they have finished in the top three in their league in runs every year since except one.

By N8

November 6, 2008 10:39 AM | Link to this

LT-A blogger

For the most part I agree with your post. Some of the details I differ on, but the premise is a good one.

As for Peavy and the lack of complete games? I might give you a token nod on that one (interesting fact as it is), but when you’ve got the all-time saves leader in the bullpen, you save those prescious innings for your ace.

By your definition and description, does that mean that Glavine didn’t pitch a gem in Game 6 of the 95 WS, because Wohlers came in for the 9th? You ask 100 people that question and about 10 people are gonna say that he pitched a masterful game. The other 90 will be laughing so hard at the silliness of the question, they won’t be able to answer.

By David O'Brien

November 6, 2008 10:39 AM | Link to this

Anders, you actually said the “style of living” is basically the same in Chicago and NYC? Uh, have you been to Chicago? They’re not comparable cities. Very different places, both spectacular in their own ways.

By Jersey Gil

November 6, 2008 10:41 AM | Link to this

My Opinion: Now that the Yankee is in the mix (NY Daily News) offer in the package Phil Hughes, Ian Kennedy, Matsui, Austin Jackson, Melky Cabrera (Not make no sense , because last year they don’t want to include Hughes in the mix with Johan) is my truly opinion that i prefere to see the Bravos going to the agony for the next two year to improve this team with the so calling “Prospect” and wait until those “Prospect” Mature…..DO NOT MAKE ANY TRADE Just Sign a Outfielder with Power and going with this Rotation this year….JJ,Campillo, Morton,Hampton,Hanson. It Just My Opinion….See What Happen with the Ray this year…their Prospect Mature and now have a Good Group of young Players.

By THB

November 6, 2008 10:41 AM | Link to this

Efrim-I agree. Schafer and Hanson are two guys I don’t want to trade because they’re both going to be starting next year, and sooner rather than later. I like that we’re taking this in the direction of Morton, Medlen, Locke, and an outfielder though. Although, Locke is considered to have a very, very high ceiling as well. We do have Rohrbough though with an even higher ceiling and already at high-A. I would hope that maybe we could send Gorkys in place of Schafer and add in a B.Jones type player or even Lillibridge.

If we trade Morton, Medlen, Locke, Gorkys, and B.Jones, I’d say that’s a good deal for us.

We’re left with a rotation anchored by Peavy, Hanson and Schafer waiting to step in, the infield intact, and the need for a #2 pitcher and a power hitting outfielder.

If we keep Escobar, KJ could possibly be expendable. If we went after Ankiel instead of Ludwick, could we possibly get a prospect in return? I’d be all for an Ankiel/Jaime Garcia trade. Garcia is a 22 year old lefty starter who has a very high K rate and exceptionally high ground ball rate, he was called up for bullpen help at the end of last year. I think that would be a great trade.

By GermanBravesFan

November 6, 2008 10:43 AM | Link to this

Amen, Brother Lew…. ;-)

By Anders

November 6, 2008 10:44 AM | Link to this

DOB

If you want to conjure a crazy image, read the story (on our current ajc.com “most popular stories” top five) about the woman who ran a mile with a rabid fox attached to her arm, biting her. Unbelievable.

Is this not how every GM feels while negotiating with Boras?

By DAP

November 6, 2008 10:46 AM | Link to this

anders the style of living is the same in chitown and NY? wow. ive never lived either place, but that surprises me. i always thought of chicago of being much more blue collar mid-west style than big city that never sleeps hussle bussle new york city.

maybe peavy has the same misconception as me. or maybe its not a misconception.

By Anders

November 6, 2008 10:46 AM | Link to this

10:33 poster

Who are you and what have you done with Lew?

By Lew

November 6, 2008 10:48 AM | Link to this

Ander-Dude, I know I take every available opportunity to give the Mets and their Fans grief (y’all deserve it), but the fact is that the Mets should have won at least one World Series and been in the playoffs the other two years. They came away with one lousy little Division flag to put up on their new, barren stadium walls (and likely to remain barren with Omar as GM). A semi decent GM would have found the pieces needed to carry them all the way those three years.

However, reliance on ancient players and the failure to acquire the necessary piece to carry them over the threshhold negated the success they SHOULD have almost certainly had. If not the fault of the GM, whose job it is to get these paragons of difference making, then whose fault is it? Sorry Dude, you can’t lay this one on the Braves.

If you’re really happy with ONE Division Title and a couple of really p!$$ poor choke outs, then there’s likely no hope for you. I just don’t want to hear about the Braves string of futility in the post season ever again from the mouth of a Mets’ fan. At least WE made it to the post season. The Mets? Not really. You’ve got to stop judging the success of the Mets by where they came in relative to the Braves. That is not the criterion that MLB uses-just Mets’ fans.

By Jersey Gil

November 6, 2008 10:51 AM | Link to this

If I’m Mr. Wren i signed Pat Burrell and that it for the Season, going with this lineup: Anderson CF, Escobar SS, Chipper 3b, Mac C, Burrell LF(Seven Inning, use Blanco 8,9) Johnson 2b, Frenchy RF, Koth 1b. as you see Lefty, wrighty lineup.

By N8

November 6, 2008 10:51 AM | Link to this

Lew

Well said. I do believe you might need to mail your self a portrait.

The cat is officially out of the bag….. I didn’t kill your father…. I am your father.

Welcome to the darkside. Where the music of choice is played by John Cafferty and his band of brown beavers.

PS: For all bloggers out there, imagine Lew giving that rant using Denis Leary’s demeanor. It hightens the “reading” and imagination of the experience. I initially tried to envision Steven Wright….but that didn’t seem to have the “impact” I was looking for. :-)

By RC

November 6, 2008 10:54 AM | Link to this

Shaun,

flange1 has a point about balance in the lineup. I agree it depends on the individual hitters, but most LH hitters fare better against RH pitchers than LH pitchers. Your point about the Red Sox doesn’t hold water since Manny and Youkilis are both right handed, and 2 of the top 3 hitters on their team. The key to balance is that in the 6th, 7th, or 8th innings of a game you don’t want a team to be able to just go to a lefty specialist when your 3/4/5 hitters come up, eliminating any threat your team may have had at scoring. I know that each player is a special case, but statstically, balance in the lineup helps a ballclub.

By K.Street

November 6, 2008 10:57 AM | Link to this

David O’Brien,

I would love to see Jermaine Dye back in a Braves uniform, he was an amazing player and still is. If the Peavy deal goes through that would leave spots to fill at SS, would we just promote Lillibridge to SS? Getting the second pitcher through free agency, that would leave any more money for SS so it would have to be him right? Besides that, who are the Braves looking to play in center, Josh Anderson?

By David O'Brien

November 6, 2008 10:57 AM | Link to this

Anders: Now that made me smile. Good one.

By N8

November 6, 2008 10:59 AM | Link to this

Shaun

I think we finally have a point we see eye to eye on.

I’ve NEVER been a big guy that takes to much stock in the right/lefty thing, if the guy is a good hitter.

If there are guys that have clear cut gaps in the righty/lefty splits, then fine. The spells platoon.

But give me a lineup of good hitters, with good patience and a good approach, vs. a lineup that goes righty-lefty-righty-lefty, etc….

While our middle of the order in the mid-90’s was VERY left-handed heavy (which came back to haunt us in the post-season a bit), when McGriff, Justice and Klesko were in the heart of the order (along with all of Chipper’s power being from the left side back then), it surely didn’t have much issue in game 1-162 in scoring runs, did it?

Now having a RH bat to break up the lineup for a post-season roster, might not be a bad idea. But….

By Shaun

November 6, 2008 11:01 AM | Link to this

RC, balance probably helps, all things being equal. But having Adam Dunn would probably be more advantageous than having Blanco and Diaz out there purely from a baseball standpoint (and ignoring salary and other contract considerations).

By falcons don't need d hall

November 6, 2008 11:06 AM | Link to this

To everyone debating trading/not trading Escobar:

If the Braves trade Yunel, simply resign Renteria. The guy is as clutch as Chipper.

With Peavy acquired, we can use the CC money elsewhere…and to the guy who said Adam Dunn is a terrible hitter: how many Ks did Ryan Howard have last year?

By Lew

November 6, 2008 11:07 AM | Link to this

Dad!!!!!

By KC

November 6, 2008 11:08 AM | Link to this

Lew: “What part of Smoltz saying that he would likely go back to the pen”

First of all, good morning!

When did Smoltz say this? I must have missed it.

By KC

November 6, 2008 11:12 AM | Link to this

DOB: What’s the hold up?!

Why haven’t you called Peavy for the Braves? I understand you don’t want to call it and then have to pull it back, but don’t hold out on us man! I mean… this thing’s all but done, right?

=)

By Lew

November 6, 2008 11:14 AM | Link to this

Anders-Lew is being held in a containment field by Eddie and The Cruisers. I am Joe The Artist-and I have the scars to prove it.

By Marty

November 6, 2008 11:15 AM | Link to this

I just want to make sure everyone knows where I stand on this, even though it doesn’t matter:

Vote YES on Proposition Peavy. Vote NO on Proposition Adam Dunn, regardless of the cost. This is not the AL, so defense does matter, and he is just plain not a particularly good contact hitter.

By MikeC

November 6, 2008 11:15 AM | Link to this

I would not give up Escobar period. He may have a little bit of an attitude, but I think he’ll settle down. As for talent, the only thing lacking is speed. I believe he’ll hit 15-20 homers a year and bat .300. His range, hands and arm are the equal of any big league shortstop. And if you trade him, who plays short? Lillibridge has the glove but hasn’t proven he can hit above double-A. Prado doesn’t have the range and Infante is best suited for a utility role. And as a Gamecock fan, I can’t abide the thought of rooting for the vastly overrated, goofy looking Khalil Greene. The doofus doesn’t even know how to wear his hat or uniform pants correctly, not to mention that scarecrow haircut he sports. I’d give up Kelly instead. He doesn’t have the instincts for second (or any other defensive position) and his bat is too streaky. Prado would be a solid replacement at second.

By McFann O

November 6, 2008 11:16 AM | Link to this

OK, sorry…it was suddenly my turn for piano lessons. Not like I was saying anything “important”…kinda went off on a tangent back there.

Anders @ 10:46—

LOL!

Neight Lew Well said. I do believe you might need to mail your self a portrait.

Haha! Good stuff.

OK, so Gold Gloves for the AL are announced today at 4—though I heard they leaked out somewhere…don’t know if that true. Well, why don’t they tell when the Silver Sluggers are gonna be announced??

By Fred

November 6, 2008 11:17 AM | Link to this

Anders, I have lived in NYC and have visited Chicago at least 10 times. I agree with DOB, those cities are very different. I wonder if Peavy, having homes in the warm climates of California and Alabama, would accept a trade to a cold weather city (especially Chicago). On the other side of the coin, a trade to NY would mean playing in a new stadium in front of sold-out crowds.

By McFann O

November 6, 2008 11:18 AM | Link to this

Lew @ 11:07—

OK…That was funny!

By MizzouBravesFan

November 6, 2008 11:19 AM | Link to this

From Olney this morning…

So at some point, the Braves and Padres may well strike a deal built around shortstop Yunel Escobar, center fielder Jordan Schaefer, pitcher Charlie Morton, and one more pitching prospect. The Padres are known to have interest in left-hander Jeff Locke, a 20-year-old who pitched in Single-A last season.

Interesting.

By Lew

November 6, 2008 11:19 AM | Link to this

KC-Good Morning. Can’t give you an exact date, but it has been widely reported here and discussed quite a bit. You’ve just been AWOL, Dude.

Stop and think for a minute. The Bearded Icon will be 42 years old, recovering from what Dr. Andrews described as one of the most severely injured arms he’d ever seen. He has now had five surgeries to repair various pieces of said arm. If he IS able to come back, do you seriously see him pitching 6 or 7 innings every five days? Or, more likely, do you see him pitching an inning at a time a couple times a week?

By Raddad

November 6, 2008 11:20 AM | Link to this

DOB

Would it be realistic to think the braves would not get into a bidding war for burnett and lowe and maybe focus on say Jon Garland, especially if the Angels go after C.C.

By Braveheart

November 6, 2008 11:24 AM | Link to this

Why does Escobar’s attitude really matter? Clubhouse culture is nice but overrated. Don’t delude yourselves into believing that the Braves won because of their clubhouse culture. They won because they had the best 25 men in the National League. Once it becomes about something more than fielding the 25 best men……….. then you had better believe they’re gonna start losing more than you’d like. Vanderbilt runs a nice, clean football team with fine, young distinguished gentlemen but Vanderbilt doesn’t go to bowl games. That’s fine for Vanderbilt. No one is leaving the Braves with a Vanderbilt level education however. Winning games should actually matter for the Braves

Yunel Escobar is a hardnosed cutthroat guy like drivers used to be back in the day in NASCAR. The rest of these boys on this team are like today’s current NASCAR stars …… they bore folks to tears with their pretty, prissy ways….. it’s just a bland brand of baseball. ….. Chipper has a brain, Smoltz is a lion, McCann has heart, Hudson has grit, Yunel has soul….. the rest of them are nothing. They have no identity. Frenchy used to be the wild stallion but they broke his arse long ago….. peavy may very well be the bulldog we need but is it worth our soul?

By RC

November 6, 2008 11:28 AM | Link to this

Shaun,

I agree with that statement entirely. My arguement not that we shouldn’t get Dunn, but if the choice was Dunn vs. Ludwick, I’m not sure which I’d prefer based on the current lineup.

By Anders

November 6, 2008 11:32 AM | Link to this

DOB

I’ve actually only been to Chicago twice and didn’t see a lot of it. I was down in the North Michigan St. area across from Grant Park which was a lot like NYC in terms of high rises etc. I did get to Wrigley which was special.That area is much like Queens NY.

What I meant was that they’re both large major cities, with lot’s of people, very urban etc. I wasn’t speaking from a cultural or demographic perspective. But I hear what your saying and I certainly don’t have a vantage point to compare the two. That’s why I asked.

By Lew

November 6, 2008 11:33 AM | Link to this

Braveheart-Your 11:24 reminds me of the song by The Cult from the Electric CD-King Contrary Man. “No, I said No, You can’t take my soul” The singer changes his mind when more is offered.

By LT-A blogger

November 6, 2008 11:36 AM | Link to this

Thanks N8,

I prefaced the complete game thing by acknowledging that it was most likely over-rated. I’m just really not big on the Peavy for all these players deal- probably just stretching for more reasons not to like him. Escobar is one of best players with a lot of potential.

I’m hearing Peavy for Escobar and Schafer plus Morton and think you gotta be kidding me.

I think the moon was lost in 2009 when Huddy lost his elbow. Now we’re gonna trade all these dudes to plug that hole and wer’re gonna be better? If Franceour doesn’t recover and CF is still Blanco/Anderson, it won’t matter who is in left or at the top of the rotation.

Give me a break.

By mbatl

November 6, 2008 11:37 AM | Link to this

Bravheart, wow… Vandy football, NASCAR, the Wizard of Oz, a wild stallion, and a bulldog — all in one post!

Anyway, I only see Escobar’s “attitude” as a problem to the extent it affects his play on the field… lack of concentration at SS or on the basepaths, because he’s mad or frustrated, alienating umpires, that kind of thing. And I’m not saying that’s a huge problem, but if attitude is a problem at all, that’s where it counts.

By Tim

November 6, 2008 11:39 AM | Link to this

DOB

If you’re a big fan of escobar like me, would it be possible for the Padres to accept Brent and Kelly instead of escobar. I know Brent doesn’t have much value, but you would think the two of them together would have atleast the equivalent value of Yunel.

But maybe I’m wrong, just wondering if that scenario is at all possible?

By N8

November 6, 2008 11:43 AM | Link to this

Lew

You’re on a roll dude. We get a Red Rider and a King Contrary Man reference in the same week? Along with your negative rant?

Well played. The Cult “Electric” album is also in the Top 5 rock albums of the 80’s, IMO. Not really in consideration for Top 10 all-time (like GnR’s “Appettite”), but certainly The Cult’s best work.

*”Poor man, sad man, you should be glad man….. stand up for your rights….PEACE!”

Sorry couldn’t resist. Had an old bass player that used to sing Peace Dog with us, and it was a hoot.

Speaking of the Cult, have you seen Ian Astbury lately? Wow. That dude is in rough shape. Not “Steven Adler” rough, but rough none the less. Yikes.

By Bubdylan

November 6, 2008 11:48 AM | Link to this

“Chipper has a brain, Smoltz is a lion, McCann has heart, Hudson has grit, Yunel has soul” -Braveheart

The thing is, Chipper, Smoltz, MacCann, and Hudson have those qualities without being obnoxious or unclassy. Now, I’m NOT saying I’m in the anti-Yunel attitude crowd, I’m just saying that if your argument is that a certain amount of shadiness or contempt must be expected from a player with energy and fire… then your own list of non-Yunel Braves players is against you.

By Lew

November 6, 2008 11:49 AM | Link to this

I’ve got to say I agree with LT. I’d go a different route than Peavy if THAT is what we would have to give up. Still think we need to sign either Lowe or Dempster and trade a lesser package to the White Sox for Javier Vasquez and Nick Swisher.

Losing Hudson for this season made the road a whole lot tougher to travel to the post season. Let’s just be realistic and be aware that a rotation in 2010 of Hudson, Lowe, Jurrjens, Vasquez and Hanson/ Morton, with Jorge Campillo as long relief would be a winner.

By Dadgum

November 6, 2008 11:50 AM | Link to this

Should the Braves lose Escobar in a trade then you can be pretty certain that they have a replacement in place via free agency or another trade. The Braves have NOBODY in their system anywhere that you would go to battle with over a 162+ game season. Infante could be a stop-gap guy at SS but at this stage certainly not your main cog there. No way.

I have been reading the Greene kid may not be included by San Diego or the Braves aren’t interested which is good because since he left Clemson his stock has fallen.

The Braves won’t be able to afford Furcal which is unfortunate unless the Peavy trade doesn’t materialize. My guess is that the Braves will sign Renteria for 1 year with a 2nd year option. This will give them the experience needed up the middle.

Also I have mentioned it before but I feel the Braves will be settling in with Prado at 2nd and will deal Kelly Johnson if they feel he can’t be an answer in the outfield. Hey, just a layman’s opinion, obviously not an insider, but Prado is a better 2nd baseman and will get you the batting average necessary from that position not to mention some dingers and gappers. I’m taking Prado over Johnson at 2nd base everday, everytime and I think the Braves will trade him.

Rock on……bag of chips $5, cup of coffee $5, gorgeous SOCAL women-pricele$$. Hey hey I wanna be a rockstar!

By MJ

November 6, 2008 11:51 AM | Link to this

No way, no how in any way shape or form should Tommy Hanson be included in any deal! He is going to be so good!

I can deal w/ trading Escobar even though he is going to be a really good player. But you have to think replacing a starting SS is easier to replace than a true #1 pitcher.

The Braves have to get Peavy but they also cannot give away the whole cupboard either.

By BravesFanInRockies

November 6, 2008 11:51 AM | Link to this

RE: Dunn,

I’m somewhat surprised you folks arguing about whether Dunn’s a solid pickup since he’s a lefty didn’t look up his splits.

In 2008, his OPS was 180 points higher vs. RH pitchers (.951 vs. .773). In 2006 they were roughly even but every other year he’s mashed against righties and been maybe average against lefties.

OTOH, Raul Ibanez’s career L/R splits are much closer, about 100 points apart. He’s a less-expensive, and yes, shorter-term option to Dunn if the Braves can’t land the RH hitter they’d like. You might be able to get Raul for 3/$37 (with the third year an option) while Dunn’s going to expect 4 or 5 years for at least $15MM per.

By BravesFanInRockies

November 6, 2008 11:55 AM | Link to this

Lew,

What you said (11:49). I could handle giving up Escobar or Schafer but not both. Your rotation would lack a clear stopper but it would have three 1As or 2s. Lowe/JJ/Vasquez is a solid top of the rotation and if we’re lucky Hanson will emerge by the end of the season as another front-end guy.

By Buffalo NY Braves Fan

November 6, 2008 11:57 AM | Link to this

RC,

If I had the choice I would go with Ludwick over Dunn. Better BA, better D, he can play all 3 OF positions, and he has almost the same power.

Just my opinion though.

As far as the Peavy talks go…..

Morton, Escobar, Locke should be enough to get Peavy. If not, throw in a guy like Flowers.

By ncscoots

November 6, 2008 11:58 AM | Link to this

Escobar is dining. The possible replacements floated here, so far, are eating.

And there is nothing wrong with eating (Blauser, Lemke, Belliard, et al) if you’re dining at other positions. But, even in the years when Lopez, McGriff, Chipper, Klesko, Grissom, Dye and other offensive weapons were around, the Braves still struggled (and mostly failed) to score 800 runs. Because they were eating at some .240 clip elsewhere.

It’s a dangerous thought that the Braves, or just about any other club, can put together the massively strong pitching to overcome anemic offense. And there should be little confusion over the offensive potential of the current club (even with additions) and, say, the 96 and 97 squads.

If the Braves think they can upgrade at SS after trading Escobar for Peavy, fine. But they cannot afford do the latter and fail at the former. The Braves simply don’t have enough offensive depth to suffer any run-producing loss.

By Marty

November 6, 2008 12:00 PM | Link to this

Ibanez is also 107 years old and overpriced.

By N8

November 6, 2008 12:01 PM | Link to this

LT-A blogger

I hear you. But here’s the thing, and this is where I guess I have some good ol’ fashioned blind fait in Wren.

If the ONLY move he was gonna make, was to trade Escobar for Peavy and expect that to take us over the top, I’d agree with you 100 percent.

But he has stated that he wants two starting pitchers, and a new LF.

Now, one could argue that if getting those two pitchers and a LF costs us our middle infielders (which DOB has stated that Wren has stated we won’t be trading BOTH OF THEM), then it’s not worth it.

But I’m all for taking a step back to take a step forward.

Some people might argue that taking a “risk” on guys like Soriano or Gonzo wasn’t worth it with their injuries. I might agree a bit. But I also believe that the GM who sits on his hands in the off-season, is the same guy that watches other teams play in the playoffs.

I’m not saying make moves to make moves. But in any business you have to be willing to take some risk to have a chance at the reward. Unless you are the Rays GM this off-season. Then maybe you ride it out for a while. But when you’re the GM for a team that has missed the playoffs for three straight years, SOMETHING has to change.

The part that scares me, is if the Peavy thing drags out and Wren misses the boat on the other pieces he may want to make a move on. I doubt that will happen, but here’s the thing.

I think the trade front is the way to make things happen. There is zero guarantee that any free agents will want to come to Atlanta and join a losing team. If Wren trades for a guy, they have no choice.

Plus it’s two-fold with Peavy. Trading for Peavy just might be the move that makes some of the other free agents take a closer look at playing for the Braves.

If this Peavy deal falls through, I think Wren will ridiculously have to over-pay for somebody like Lowe to come to Atlanta. Whre if Peavy is already on board, Lowe might not take less money, but the playing field will be more level.

Like I said. Until Wren proves other-wise, I’ll believe that he’ll make some moves that will improve our chances without mortgaging the entire future. If he proves me wrong, he won’t be holding that job for too long, IMO.

By Supes

November 6, 2008 12:02 PM | Link to this

Jake Peavy in a Braves Jersey. Make it happen Frank Wren! With the Phillies and the Mets in the division it’s not going to get any easier.

Need top tier starting pitching now! Not 2-3 years from now with the minor leaguers coming up!

Wren needs to be more aggressive and not wait around forever as the weeks go by and the Cubs and others can beat the Braves to the punch.

Worst case scenario, Wren tries to play chicken with the Pads, someone else gets Peavy (Cubs, Dodgers), Lowe goes back to the Sox, Dempster stays with the Cubs, Burnette gets to steal money and be injuried with the Yankees, CC Sabathia goes to the Dodgers or Yankees…and that leaves the Braves with Ben Sheets. That’s it for FA top tier guys.

So while there is a plus side in waiting (Mets not overpaying for Santana and calling the Twin’s bluffs early last year), there is the other side, where Frank Wren is going to be left holding his you know what and the Braves will once again have to rely on….

Hampton, Glavine and Smoltz…an unproven Rookie in TH, a junker baller journeyman in Capillo…and a bunch of scrubs.

Be careful what you wish for Braves. I see some that say “oh, you can’t trade Kelly, or you can’t trade Yunel”. Well just damn! You gotta give SOMETHING of value UP to the other team if you are getting an ace starter! Or you do you want the Pads to just give Jake Peavy to the Braves straight up for Chuck James?

Same with Ryan Ludwick for KJ etc.

A trade has to benefit both teams. Not just the Braves.

So if the Braves give up Yunel in a deal for Peavy or KJ in a deal for Ludwick, so be it. Fair is fair. At that point it’s going to be can they replace the middle infield for 2008 with what we have within the system and the bench.

By Roman Gal

November 6, 2008 12:04 PM | Link to this

Efrim I have to agree with you about Schafer…and that package as a whole, really. It’s one thing to give up one of our starting 8 for next years team, but TWO?! No way!

What’s the point of getting Peavy if we have to sacrifice so much of our future to get him? I don’t mind giving up pitching to get him, plus maybe one offensive player, but TWO?!

That’s just not something I can get behind…

I just think that trading Schafer would be a huge mistake.

By cameron

November 6, 2008 12:07 PM | Link to this

Buster Olney is reporting that since the Padres know they wont get Hanson, they will take Escobar as the centerpiece, they also really like Locke. So I say the Braves need to take that deal. I love escobar just as much as the rest of you but we NEED pitching, and Jake Peavy is top of the line. And I think if we can make the deal for Peavy then it will break things open and we can make other trades like for Ludwick.

By Anders

November 6, 2008 12:09 PM | Link to this

Braveheart

Don’t delude yourselves into believing that the Braves won because of their clubhouse culture. They won because they had the best 25 men in the National League.

They won because they had three HOF pitchers at one time-period. They didn’t win more in the post season because they never had that lock down closer.

Glad to see you talking baseball again. Can we assume you got what you needed?

By N8

November 6, 2008 12:09 PM | Link to this

Lew

Your 11:49 is EXACTLY how I feel, unless Wren can pry Peavy away for a McGriff/Melvin Nieves type of trade. Which is doubtful.

But there lies the problem. While you and I (along with some other bloggers), look forward to 2010 and the POSSIBILITY of a talented and VERY young rotation (with Hudson as the returning from injury veteran to lead the way), most Braves fans and Wren are NOT thinking that way.

After all, this might be Bobby’s last year, and Chipper deserves a winner, right?

Nothing against trying to win for Chipper or trying to give Bobby a “swan song”, but a GM’s job is to put the organization (and it’s future) ahead of any one player (even if it is Chipper), or the HOF manager, right?

That being said, if Peavy can be had on the cheap, he certainly will fit into that 2010 rotation (and beyond) just fine, won’t he?

By David O'Brien

November 6, 2008 12:11 PM | Link to this

Raddad, I wrote a comment on first day of meetings (Monday) that I’ll repeat: Garland doesn’t do much for Braves. They’re not very enthusiastic about him.

By DAP

November 6, 2008 12:11 PM | Link to this

bravesfaninrockies i bet we could get ibanez for 2 years $15mil.

i will mourn the loss of escobar if we have to trade him, but i dont think a package including escobar and some other peices we wont miss will be too much to trade. several decent SS are available. orlando caberra, renteria, felipe lopez to name a few. by the way, i was looking up stats…did anyone know felipe lopez hit 23 himers in 2005? how the heck did that happen?

dadgum Prado is a better 2nd baseman and will get you the batting average necessary from that position not to mention some dingers and gappers.

im not sure prado is a better 2nd baseman, and about the average, dingers and gappers…what do you expect johnson to do? i wouldnt hate having prado play 2nd everyday, but i dont think he is better than KJ.

By N8

November 6, 2008 12:13 PM | Link to this

Supes

Good points in your 12:02 post.

The question really comes down to this:

Are the Braves better off with Peavy and Ludwick and some stop gap middle IF?

Or with a second tier Ace, along with the Diaz/Blanco platoon in LF, with KJ and Escobar up the middle?

I guess ultimately, it’s not what you or I think, but what Bobby and Wren think.

By Anders

November 6, 2008 12:19 PM | Link to this

Marty

Ibanez is also 107 years old and overpriced.

Sounds like he’ll slide right into Alou’s slot in left.

By Lee in S GA

November 6, 2008 12:21 PM | Link to this

Still think we need to sign either Lowe or Dempster and trade a lesser package to the White Sox for Javier Vasquez and Nick Swisher.

Lew

Pretty much agree with you on this one. I think in the long run this will help the Braves more. After keeping up with this Peavy talk for days now I have been one of the “don’t care one way or the other” bloggers on whether Peavy is acquired or not. I have actually been hoping someone else would deal for him. You are right, losing Hudson hurt so much until I just don’t see the Braves overcoming this to win the division in 2009. There are just too many “IFS” coming into play. Hope I am proven wrong in the end but I don’t see it.

By David O'Brien

November 6, 2008 12:23 PM | Link to this

Lew’s got it going this morning, folks. That “scars” line cracked my a$$ up.

Got an 11:55 a.m. (Pacific Time) flight out of Orange County. It’s been good out here, lot of juicy stuff and legit talks, not just unsubstantiated rumors.

Braves are going to make some moves, folks. No doubt. Significant moves. Just a matter of time.

By rammerjammer

November 6, 2008 12:24 PM | Link to this

This is ridiculous. “If Peavy can be had on the cheap.” Good grief. Yeah, sure, most any team will deal a mid-20s Cy Young winner cheaply. All you gotta do is insist on it! LOL

If all Peavy costs us is a good - not yet great - shortstop and three prospects, that is a STEAL for Atlanta.

I like Escobar a lot, but we need Peavy far more than we need Escobar.

By Anders

November 6, 2008 12:25 PM | Link to this

DOB

Garland doesn’t do much for Braves. They’re not very enthusiastic about him.

Who hasn’t said that about the first girl you see when you walk into a bar only finding yourself doing shots with her 5 hours later when the rest are gone? I expect lots and lots of fun comments for this one - but I think you get my drift.

By Efrim

November 6, 2008 12:27 PM | Link to this

So the bounty is, or could be:

Yunel Escobar - Star Shortstop

Charlie Morton - Let’s call him a potential #3 starter. Even though some of you may think he is more or less than that

Jordan Shafer - Top 10 prospect. Probably #3 right behind Hanson and Heyward. He is also a top 50 prospect in the majors.

Jeff Locke - Another Braves Top 10 prospect. Potential #3 starter, although he has a LONG way to go.

By DAP

November 6, 2008 12:28 PM | Link to this

Renck also says the White Sox have contacted the Rockies about Willy Taveras.

ok, somebody needs to tell the white sox we have two willy ts that they can choose from. the sox have several peices that the braves could really use.

By MGL

November 6, 2008 12:29 PM | Link to this

I don’t like the idea of trading either Escobar or KJ, we are too short of power as it is. If Escobar is traded to the Padres, I think that they have to go after Renteria or similar. Renteria has the same power profile as Escobar, so we lose some defense, but not much offense.

I know some of you are in love with Prado, but if you put Prado at second, you lose power. (and defense in my book).

If Prado is better than KJ, why are other teams not after him?

By N8

November 6, 2008 12:33 PM | Link to this

To those of you that think I’m contradicting myself by stating I have zero problem with KJ and Escobar being dealt for Peavy and Ludwick, but am saying hold on to Hanson, Medlen, Schafer, Gorkys, Freeman, Heyward, etc…

Maybe I am. Why on earth would I be so willing to hold on to unproven minor league stars, yet let both of our middle infielders go?

For the most part, it’s because I still think that BOTH Escobar and KJ are still unproven to be consistently good over 6 months, day in and day out as well.

Add to that the are both in their mid-20’s. Not that that makes them old. But Peavy is only a year and half older than Escbar.

What gives? So Wren would be trading a 26 year old SS who MIGHT turn into one of the games best in the next few years, for a 27 year old pitcher who has ALREADY won a Cy Young and has proven to ALREADY be one of the best pitchers in the game?

As for KJ? Really?? People are freaking out about Wren possibly trading a 2B (who has as much shot at winning the GG anytime soon, as Steve Sax did early in his career), who has YET to put together a complete season.

Sure Ludwick is 30 years old, and only has one complete (un-injured) season. But dude hit 37 HR and had 113 RBI last year.

For the record, assuming Ludwick would play LF next year. Escobar, KJ and ALL of our LF’s used last year, combined for 28 HR and 199 RBI. Do the math. One player…..vs…..Three players.

Where I stand right now? Make the trade for Peavy using Escobar as the centerpiece with some other (not top notch) prospects thrown in. Small price to pay for a guy one year removed from winning the Cy Young. Provided the Braves medical staff is certain his elbow can hold up.

Make the trade for Ludwick using KJ as the centerpiece.

Sign one of the other second tier starting pitchers (Lowe, Burnett, Penny, Dempster).

Use the resources of the remaining money left over to make trades (or sign) some solid middle infielders. Using Prado, Infante and McCauley as bench players (or trade bait).

Cross fingers that Francoeur looks more like the young Eric Davis that he did two and three seasons ago, rather than Brad Kominsk, like he did last year.

Pray for health of Chipper and B-Mac.

Hope that Kotchman looks like the Kotchman that played for the Angels from April through July.

If Ludwick is for real, Kotchman does what he’s done, Chipper stays healthy for 130 games and B-Mac is B-Mac, that is 4 pretty solid guys in the everyday 8.

With the pitching upgrades, one could argue that the middle IF and CF options could be defense first kind of guys (as long as they aren’t Belliard’s with the bat).

Just don’t want the farm to be dumped for Peavy, two years removed from dumping it for Tex. Nothing more, nothing less.

By Braveheart

November 6, 2008 12:34 PM | Link to this

he thing is, Chipper, Smoltz, MacCann, and Hudson have those qualities without being obnoxious or unclassy. Now, I’m NOT saying I’m in the anti-Yunel attitude crowd, I’m just saying that if your argument is that a certain amount of shadiness or contempt must be expected from a player with energy and fire… then your own list of non-Yunel Braves players is against you.

David Justice was a jerk who was so full of himself that he believed he would someday date the most gorgeous woman in the world and hit the game winning homer in the World Series. Not only did he hit that homer and date the most gorgeous woman in the world, he married her, cheated on her, treated her like dog doo, and divorced her. They said it would be better without him. The Braves haven’t won the World Series since they lost David Justice. The Yankees haven’t won a World Series since they lost David Justice. The Indians haven’t been back to the World Series since they lost David Justice.

By Supes

November 6, 2008 12:34 PM | Link to this

N8

To answer your 12:13 reply…I think they are better off with Ludwick in LF, and Peavy on the mound.

I think KJ and Yunel will be good, maybe even above average 4 star type players eventually, but they don’t pitch.

You win with top tier pitching, or at least you give yourself the chance.

It’s proven every post season. You get a dominant starter, like a Cole Hamels to carry you, you get a pen with 3-4 shut down relievers, game over.

Now the other part of this, is the HR production/RBI production you get from a guy like Ryan Ludwick, hitting 5th in the lineup. (when Mac is playing)

I think Lillbridge at SS, Infante at 2B and Prado 2B (when Omar has to go over to 3B for Chipper those 30 games a year) is adequate defense.

Omar and Prado aren’t HR guys, but they are contact hitters who don’t go into extended slumps. Still unsure what kind of hitter Lillbridge will be, he’s the question mark.

I realize that giving up half your infield to get these trades complete isn’t something desireable, but it’s something the team can live with. It’s not a blow, like losing your catcher let’s say.

Braves have middle infielders coming in the minors as well.

I believe the pro’s outweight the con’s in this scenario, where the Braves may have to give up KJ, and Yunel in trades to get better in weaker positions (organization wise) and make a push for 2009 NL East title.

By JKP

November 6, 2008 12:35 PM | Link to this

My opinion has always been do whatever it takes to land Peavy. Prospects are just that…prospects. Hanson may very well be the real deal, but Peavy already is. If I were GM (Thank goodness I’m not) I would be willing to give up Hanson if that was the only way. Looks like it’s not, though. Escobar is already a good player who will probably turn into a star player. But, again, if that’s what it takes…get the Ace starter. What’s the market looking like on Furcal? If Escobar is traded, that would solve the SS and leadoff problems. And, he’s probably the only one with a better infield arm than Escobar.

By cooper

November 6, 2008 12:36 PM | Link to this

Jersey Gil - your peavy and ace free rotation will assist the Braves in losing 85-90 games in 2009. :)

This team must acquire two TOR SP or plan to give season ticket holder refunds and run 50% off nights all year.

JJ is a 3/3A SP (max) and everyone else there is a 5.

Dunn is ok if he can be had for a reasonable deal and someone other than TP works with him on the SO issue.

I would prefer Bradley, Maggs or Dye in the OF over Dunn for various reasons but he is worlds better than a Diaz/Blanton platoon.

By Anders

November 6, 2008 12:37 PM | Link to this

Efrim

Sounds like Towers has Hand after all!

By Raddad

November 6, 2008 12:38 PM | Link to this

DOB

Sorry about That I am new with the blog and missed it.

By Raddad

November 6, 2008 12:42 PM | Link to this

I keep reading that the braves can get lowe or burnett I do not see the braves getting into a bidding war for them. So then who??

By richbrave

November 6, 2008 12:43 PM | Link to this

DAVID O’BRIEN:

Good article. And O.K. I see your point. It is obvious BRAVES cannot go rudderless into the future without a serious #1 at the top of the rotation.

And as much as I like ESCOBAR, I can’t forget that brief exchange I had with him over the dugout at the “DIAMOND.” Somehow, I just feel the BRAVES would have an almost impossible task of keeping ESCOBAR from bolting to the top $$$$ markets when he’s firmly established in the bigs. BTW I can’t see SAN DIEGO having any more success with him than the BRAVES. He’s N.Y. bound eventually. I think he craves the lime-light-a lot, as much as the money.

Which is my long-winded and round-about mea culpa for holding out against giving up significant current and future stars for PEAVY. Financially, LIBERTY gets a great pitcher ON THE CHEAP. And the BRAVES go nowhere without him.

Liked this article DAVE. Very insightful. And as an aside, you get to enjoy the sunsets and beautiful waitress, while Mr. WREN gets to play golf and drink on the veranda with knots in the pit of his stomach while constantly sparring and negotiating for the organization all the while.

Yeah, yeah, he gets champagne and cavier while you get burgers and fries. Well, what the hell’s wrong with that.? Enjoy DAVE. It’s a great life. Thanks for all your good work.

By Bobby's Cox

November 6, 2008 12:43 PM | Link to this

DOB

Mario Chalmers is ridiculously good. Too bad the Heat are fiddling around with other guards, i.e. Shaun Livingston, Marcus Banks, and Chris Quinn.

The decision is clear in my mind…the Heat need to trade one of their guards to make Chalmers the man there in Miami. I’m not a Heat fan by any means, but with Chalmers, Wade, and Beasley, that team is going to be damn good in the future.

By Lew

November 6, 2008 12:44 PM | Link to this

Nathan-Electric was definitely my favorite Cult album, though I also like Sonic Temple a good bit and Love was pretty damned good as well. Their new on is pretty decent, too-not as heavy as Beyond Good and Evil from 02-but much more like the old stuff.

You’re right about Ian Astbury. He has always been prone towards “rough shape”, but his difficulties seem to stem from alcohol as opposed to it and the God Knows What Adler partook of on a regular basis. Kind of a shame, though. When Astbury is on top of his game, he and Billy Duffy are a great duo and quite creative. Duffy rarely gets his Props as a guitarist, either.

Too bad I gave my tickets for the Sonic Temple Tour to this British Babe who was freaked over them. I guess I’m just a soft touch for a gorgeous woman-even if she’s just a friend.

By N8

November 6, 2008 12:45 PM | Link to this

Supes

Based on my 12:33 and you 12:34 post, we’re thinkng along the same lines.

Like I said though, it doesn’t matter what you, Lew, DOB, Bravheart, Coach or I think….

What does Wren think?

By Marty

November 6, 2008 12:45 PM | Link to this

Anders - Sounds like he’ll slide right into Alou’s slot in left. That’s good stuff.

N8 - What gives? So Wren would be trading a 26 year old SS who MIGHT turn into one of the games best in the next few years, for a 27 year old pitcher who has ALREADY won a Cy Young and has proven to ALREADY be one of the best pitchers in the game? rammerjammer also made a similar comment. This is what I’ve been saying for the better part of three days, and I couldn’t agree more.

By Raddad

November 6, 2008 12:46 PM | Link to this

Any news on Antony Lerew and his status for a spot in the rotation??

By Bubdylan

November 6, 2008 12:50 PM | Link to this

Efrim, if that is indeed the bounty, I hope we do it. But I just barely hope we do it. Giving up a lot highlight reel between Esco & Shafer.

If we pull that particular trigger and Peavy’s elbow blows up, though, I swear I’m just going to buy a Playstation, build my own Braves, and play them 162 times a year…. maybe catch real baseball in the newspaper once in a while. “Oh look… two Padres in the Allstar game….”

By siskel

November 6, 2008 12:51 PM | Link to this

DOB

Have you heard anything about the Braves being involved with the White Sox for Vasquez? Really good stuff and could benefit moving to the NL and would cost significantly less than Peavy, or any chance we could land both? Also one other thought with Gary Sheffeild’s success in Atlanta is there any chance the Bravos show interest in Milton Bradley? I think he would be a very good pickup and wouldn’t cost our minor league system.

By LT-A blogger

November 6, 2008 12:51 PM | Link to this

N8,

I agree with that rational and am probably looking at the possible Peavy move through a microscope. Maybe I’m missing the forest from the trees, but I just don’t see the team as a whole better from the rumors floating around.

I don’t believe this team is in better position by obtaining a #1 starter by giving up a potential all star SS, their supposed CF of the future, plus some really good looking young pitchers. You definitely have more faith in Wren than I do- keep that glass half full!

By N8

November 6, 2008 12:54 PM | Link to this

Raddad

“I keep reading that the braves can get lowe or burnett I do not see the braves getting into a bidding war for them. So then who??”

Who knows how Wren will handle free agency (especially with 40 million at his disposal), compared to JS, who avoided bidding wars at all cost?

But I’m of the belief that if Wren loses out on the Peavy sweepstakes, he might be forced into a bidding war for one of those guys. As I’ve said before, it might be a better path for us, anyhow.

After all, it’s just money….and it’s NOT my money. LOL!

Lew

Would you believe that I saw The Cult opening up for Metallica, here in Bismarck on the And Justice For All tour (Sonic Temple was out then…I think), to a crowd of about 1200 people?

Back in the old general admission (stand on the floor) days, I remember showing up about a half hour before the lights went out, and literally walking up to about the 3rd row of the standing crowd.

I’m guessing there would be a “few” more people if Metallica showed up here today, huh?

By Efrim

November 6, 2008 12:55 PM | Link to this

Anders

He gets those four players, and he did a good job. Trading Peavy sucks if you’re a Pads fan, but that might be the best package they could hope for. A great SS to control for the next four seasons. Two young pitchers with upside and a CF prospect who you control for the next six seasons.

It’s a lot.

By Bobby's Cox

November 6, 2008 12:57 PM | Link to this

I’m sure this was posted here before, but if not:

Peavy’s career postseason stats:

2 GS, 0-2, 9.2 IP, 9 H, 4 BB, 5 K, 13 ER, 12.1. ERA.

Peavy at Turner Field:

2 GS, 0-2. 12.1 IP, 8 H, 5, BB, 15 K, 6 ER, 4.38 ERA

Peavy career at Home (Petco):

2.77 ERA, 2.19 BAA, 3.68 K/BB

Peavy career on the Road:

3.80 ERA, 2.48 BAA, 2.54 K/BB

By Bubdylan

November 6, 2008 12:58 PM | Link to this

“David Justice was a jerk who was so full of himself that he believed he would someday date the most gorgeous woman in the world and hit the game winning homer in the World Series.” -Braveheart

You’re right. And the evidence is squarely with the nice guys finishing last in this sport. The most obnoxious players somehow rise to the top. Manny, Barry, the list is long and hits a lot of historical greats.

But everybody draws their how-nasty-is-too-nasty line in a different spot. I’m only about two spots South of Vanderbilt. But I respect, and see the truth of, your side. Truth be told, fans like me might be better off watching college baseball.

By cooper

November 6, 2008 1:00 PM | Link to this

Correction Diaz/Blanco platoon.

:)

By Lew

November 6, 2008 1:00 PM | Link to this

Well My Fellow Cartoon Characters, it’s been fun discussing these Merrie Melodies and Looney Tunes with y’all. However, my wife has been on a business trip for two weeks and I have to go get her at the airport. Maybe I’ll be back to blog-then again, maybe not. Later.

By N8

November 6, 2008 1:06 PM | Link to this

LT-A Blogger

“You definitely have more faith in Wren than I do- keep that glass half full!”

You might very well be the first person EVER on this blog to use the phrase “glass half full”, when referring about one of my views.

Love it!

Time for everybody to order their Minnesota Vikings Super Bowl Champion shirts apparently, because hell has doth froze over!

Lew goes all negative and I’m considered a glass half full kinf of guy.

Gotta love this blog, there’s a new twist around every post, huh?

By Bobby's Cox

November 6, 2008 1:06 PM | Link to this

I find it odd that people are high on 30 year old Ludwick who had one heck of a year, but not Nelson Cruz who is 3 years younger and had one hell of a year. Seems like the same player to me.

I’d take them both though and plaud Wren for getting St. Louis interested for Kelly Johnson for Ludwick.

If Wren can’t get Peavy without giving up Yunel, Schafer, Hanson, or Heyward, I’d move on and get Ludwick for KJ, or Cruz for much less.

I can picture KJ in Cards uni, and St. Louis loving him as much as the fanatics in Atlanta do. St. Louis is high on defense though, so maybe not.

By Don't Trade Franceour, Sheesh

November 6, 2008 1:12 PM | Link to this

Am I the only Brent Lillibridge fan in the room?

Don’t get me wrong…Escobar is a phenomenal talent and a stud offensively and defensively, but doesn’t anyone want to see what the Lil’ Bridge can do with some extended playing time in the field and at the plate?

Most likely he will not be as good as Escobar, but who is to say he won’t come close?

It seems most think that moving Escobar means we will have to play with only 8 guys in the field…I for one am excited about seeing Lillibridge get a chance.

By THB

November 6, 2008 1:14 PM | Link to this

Bobby’s Cox-There’s a huge difference between Nelson Cruz and Ryan Ludwick, cmon man. Ludwick hit 37 HR in the major leagues in 2008, Nelson Cruz played in a hitter’s park in AAA. I agree that he’s a good low risk, high reward player but he hasn’t done anything like Ludwick has yet.

By randyh

November 6, 2008 1:15 PM | Link to this

hate to give up escobar, rather give up johnson, like someone said earlier. DONT GIVE UP TY FLOWERS YET…he may hit a ton of homers for the braves, when you find a position for him. hold onto shafer, hernandez, and hanson.

By DAP

November 6, 2008 1:16 PM | Link to this

bubdylan And the evidence is squarely with the nice guys finishing last in this sport.

no it isnt.

By Jersey Gil

November 6, 2008 1:18 PM | Link to this

Cooper That why i said “Agony” & pain the Next Couple Year, until Ours Prospect Mature. Hanson, Locke,Morton, and then Heyward, Gorky, & Freeman are ready. We Have a good Infield with Esco,Johnson,Prado & Koth. I know we need pitching this Year, but i don’t want the Organization give away ours minor league Prospect. Remenber in the begining of 1990’s we was the worst team in the west, until ours Prospect start coming in bunch (Chipper,Javy,Avery,Glavine, Dye etc), then ours minor league system keep us for 14 strait year as a contender with one World Series Champ & 14 Division winner. Think about it.

By Midnight Express99

November 6, 2008 1:22 PM | Link to this

We cannot trade Yunel and Schafer. That would be a bad deal. Schafer’s name should not be mentioned at all. Yunel Escobar is already a BIG prize.

By skull

November 6, 2008 1:23 PM | Link to this

LEW

Your 10:33 was dead on, high five. Long time reader, hardly ever post. Have been reading everything I can find on Braves, MLB & rumors since the season ended.

Here’s what I’ve noticed from all of that online time:

If not Peavy, then who?

Lowe, Dempster & Burnett all have indicated teams they would like to take offers from, NOT one of them listed the Braves as a team they want to pitch for. So, Braves then will have to grossly overpay to get one of them.

Resign Hampton before even considering Garland (good to hear Braves not interested)

Furcal? Check out ALL of the things his agent has said. His agent is talking 4 years, 50-60M.

With all of the needs the Braves have, giving Fookie that type of money with back problems is silly at best.

CC? Yankees now saying they will exceed any other offers for him. Do, or can the Braves want to get into that type of bidding war?

Wren really has some work to do. Wishing him the best, really would like to see the Braves competitive again.

By BravesFanInRockies

November 6, 2008 1:26 PM | Link to this

Don’t Trade Francouer,

About 18 months ago you might have gotten some support. But for whatever reason (yep, he might have been playing hurt), Lil Bridge took a big step back in 2008.

He was completely overpowered and outmatched by major league pitching. He looks like someone who won’t hit his weight, which is what, 150?

If he’s with the Braves he’ll have a chance to redeem himself this year — for one thing, if Yunel is traded he may battle Infante for the SS job.

But based on 2008, there’s no way they’re counting on Lil Bridge to be anything more than an emergency player, probably starting the year in Gwinnett.

By Saltywoody

November 6, 2008 1:27 PM | Link to this

Re: Cleanup Hiiter

Is it just me, or does anyone else see a hole in the middle of our lineup?

I think Ludwick would be a good acquisition, depending on who it takes to land him. And if Peavy requires Escobar, then I still think you have to do that. The Braves already have a lot of offensive Escobars in their lineup…guys that will hit for a decent average with moderate power, but are better suited for the 2-hole.

The problem with the offense, as I see it, is that you don’t have a cleanup hitter. McCann filled in last year, but to me, he’s a five-hole hitter. He’s going to need his days off and he’s better suited protecting someone else, rather than being the one who needs protecting.

I know cleanup hitters are hard to come by. But, my point is that I don’t see Ludwick as a cleanup guy. He’s a 2 or 3 hole hitter.

For left field, we should be looking to acquire someone that has some power and can protect Chipper. Adam Dunn is going to be expensive and strikes out a lot. But, he’s got the requisite power that you want from a cleanup guy.

And a guy like Ibanez, while good, just doesn’t seem suited for that role.

I say all this because I feel like the Braves desperately need a middle of the order guy. It’s what we had when we did so well in the postseason (Big Cat, Crime Dog, Andruw when he was right, etc.)

Without a guy like that, teams can get through the top of the order too easily. You pitch around Chipper, and you get McCann/Kotchman/Frenchy in some order, without ever having to face someone that is likely to hit it out of the park.

Anyone else agree? Any proposed solutions?

By TennesseePaul

November 6, 2008 1:28 PM | Link to this

If the Braves think they can upgrade at SS after trading Escobar for Peavy, fine. But they cannot afford do the latter and fail at the former. The Braves simply don’t have enough offensive depth to suffer any run-producing loss

Perhpas they realize that, even in the best world, they may not contend this year. They’d never admit it this early into the offseason. They didn’t even admit it when they signed “The Tee”. All we heard was “He was an All Star one year.” Even still, they will aim to do the best they can on all fronts. I imagine that if they manage to lock up a strong rotation and fall short on offense, they’ll be happy and spin it in a positive light.

When the team is finalized for this season, you’ll be able to have an idea of how far it can go. If the offense looks weak, but the pitching is front line and locked up for at least 3 to 4 more years, I’ll be happy. (1995 was a very weak hitting team so all hope isn’t lost). Maybe it takes two offseasons to get the monster bats we need. But to rebuild an entire rotation with youth and top of the rotation types that are locked up for a while in one off season would be a major accomplishment.
To do it all in one off season would be a miracle. I like miracles, but I don’t expect them.

By Bubdylan

November 6, 2008 1:28 PM | Link to this

And the evidence is squarely with the nice guys finishing last in this sport.

no it isnt. -DAP

Sorry, allow me to rephrase. The evidence is with not-nice guys finishing first in this sport. And also with the nice guys finishing last in this blog.

By Threadkiller

November 6, 2008 1:32 PM | Link to this

Looks like the Cubs are in Hot pursuit of Peavy and Dempster!! This from MLB Traderumors..

Ken Rosenthal is working overtime today with his second column. This time Rosenthal reports that the Cubs are willing to give Ryan Dempster a four-year deal even if they land Jake Peavy from the Padres.

The club also is willing to give Dempster a four-year contract, sources say, a decision that should put them in good position to retain the free-agent right-hander.

Even though the Cubs are for sale, team officials apparently believe that they can absorb the four years and $63 million remaining on Peavy’s contract while committing at least $50 million to Dempster over the same term.

Rosenthal notes the close relationship between Dempster and Jim Hendry could keep Dempster from accepting a longer or more lucrative deal with another team.

However, Rosenthal notes there would likely be a ripple effect on the roster if the Cubs were to resign Dempster and trade for Peavy.

The Cubs would likely be unable to resign Kerry Wood. Several players may have to be traded to reduce payroll, including Jason Marquis. May have to opt for a cheaper left-handed hitting outfielder than originally thought.

By Braveheart

November 6, 2008 1:35 PM | Link to this

Isn’t the idea of trading Escobar that you wouldn’t have to trade any untouchable? I thought it was two untouchables and three lessers or Escobar and three lessers? If not, even more reason why Escobar shouldn’t be included in this trade.

By richbrave

November 6, 2008 1:35 PM | Link to this

SKULL:

You ought to post more often. I like it.

By FloridaBrave

November 6, 2008 1:37 PM | Link to this

I’d love to see Peavy in a Braves uniform. Who wouldn’t? But I’ve never been keen on the idea of trading Escobar. And the fact that the rumored package is Escobar, Schafer, Morton, and Locke makes me dislike it even more. We get a legitimate ace signed for a below-market contract, but I don’t know who we’d get to replace Escobar. He’s one of the best fielding SS in the National League, is an above average hitter, and is under team control for a while. In addition, Schafer has a good shot at winning the CF job in spring training and I’m not comfortable going into the season with Anderson or Blanco as our starting CFs. I understand we have to give up value to get value- probably better than most people on the blog- but trading a bundle of young, affordable players is not the direction we should be going in- especially when it’s going to be extremely difficult for the Braves to compete for a pennant next year.

Sign Tazawa and take a page out of the Dodgers’ book this off-season. Keep your prospects and sign free agents to shorter-term, higher salary per year deals whereas they “hold-the-fort” yet at the same time don’t block any of the younger talent. Then next year, when you have a healthy Tim Hudson coming back as well as the “next wave” of young talent (more) ready to contribute(Morton, Reyes, Hanson, Tazawa, Medlen, Schafer, Hernandez, Kimbrel, Flowers, Rohrbough, Heyward?, etc.), then you can be more aggressive in the trade market.

By Dadgum

November 6, 2008 1:37 PM | Link to this

Anyone that thinks Lillibridge will have a chance to “compete” for the SS spot this spring should Escobar be traded is living in some kind of fantasy land.

Do you honestly believe the Braves (especially if they land Peavy) would put anyone inexperienced in the most important position on the field after pitcher/catcher. NO! Ain’t happening. No way no how. Now they may keep Infante and Lillibridge as utility guys (if not traded) but the Braves will have SS solidified via free agency or trade long before spring training rolls around.

Also I honestly don’t believe that Wren will trade Escobar to San Diego without already having his replacement lined up so to speak.

Oh yeah, the Braves would have no problem trading away their middle infield in the same off-season. Are you serious? Prado will be perfect as the everyday 2nd baseman. More natural there and will create more outs. Prado is an upgrade over Johnson. Perhaps not in HR potential but as a prototypical MLB 2nd baseman.

Acquiring a Renteria or similar to pair with Prado in the middle while getting Peavy is the ticket. They could then trade KJ to St. Louie for Ludwick.

Rock on……ain’t nothing like a view from the cheap seats.

By matt

November 6, 2008 1:39 PM | Link to this

N8,

I totally agree with your 12:33. That is the point I made earlier this morning. Ludwick, if he has a year like last year, can make up for the HR, RBI numbers that we lose if we trade KJ and Yunel. I think if you can get Peavy and Ludwick by giving up Escobar, KJ, Shafer, Morton and one or two other prospects, do it.

Escobar COULD be an elite SS, but I don’t think he is irreplaceable. Give Lillibridge a shot, give Prado a shot. I really like KJ and Yunel, but we HAVE to get someone that can hit a home run every once in a while, and we HAVE to get some good starting pitching.

By skull

November 6, 2008 1:39 PM | Link to this

BTW, why haven’t all of the TP haters here been calling for the signing of Don Baylor who announced last week that he’s available for signing with any team that wants his services?

Not saying the Braves should do it, just wondering why all of sudden it’s so quiet about TP.

By N8

November 6, 2008 1:40 PM | Link to this

TennesseePaul

Excellent post.

By Original Jon

November 6, 2008 1:50 PM | Link to this

Threadkiller You have done absolutely that with that post, that stuff was talked about hours ago. Read the blog man.

By Don't Trade Franceour, Sheesh

November 6, 2008 1:51 PM | Link to this

Dadgum, didn’t the Braves decide to go with an “unproven” player at the “most important position” on the field when they traded all-star SS Edgar Renteria to make room for rookie Yunel Escobar? Just curious what you think about that.

Skull, the Braves have already come out and explicitly said there will be no coaching changes this offseason. Not that we bloggers are against debating impossible roster moves, but TP is 100% for next year, according to Frank Wren.

By DAP

November 6, 2008 1:51 PM | Link to this

saltywoody my point is that I don’t see Ludwick as a cleanup guy. He’s a 2 or 3 hole hitter.

care to explain why? the truth is, most of his at bats in 2008 were batting cleanup behind albert pujols. if he can protect pujols, he can protect chipper. there is absolutly no reason why ludwick cant bat cleanup, especially with a guy like mccann hitting behind him.

By KC

November 6, 2008 1:52 PM | Link to this

Lew: I know that Smoltz-to-the-pen (if he comes back at all) has been a widely discussed assumption, but I just wasn’t aware of Smoltz having said anything to that affect.

IF Smoltz can make it back and be as or nearly as effective as he was before the shoulder injury… and IF Smoltz’s arm feels good and strong through the winter and spring… it wouldn’t shock me to see him return to the rotation.

I agree that it may be more likely that he’ll return to the pen, but until we hear some official word to that effect, I won’t make that assumption.

Personally, if he’s reasonably healthy and strong at the start of the season and appears capable of starting… I would go the Clemens route. After he pitches just enough in the winter/spring to show he’s capable of coming back and maybe even starting, I would hand him a fishing pole and say “see you on June 1”.

If he makes it back, it would be a tall order to ask him to start for a full season PLUS (hopefully) the post-season. But 4 months of the season, plus October? That may be a possibility.

I’m positive that Smoltzy will tell the Braves what he can or cannot do, and they’ll listen.

By Lee in S GA

November 6, 2008 1:54 PM | Link to this

Not saying the Braves should do it, just wondering why all of sudden it’s so quiet about TP.

My guess is because we are not currently watching the Braves leaving men on base, Francouer working his magic at the plate, Johnson and Escobar going into one of their slumps, Blanco and Anderson demonstrate why the majority think they suck with the bat to start with. Kind of out of sight, out if mind thing. Just like no one is blaming Cox on anything right now. It will return once the season starts, I have no doubt.

By ncscoots

November 6, 2008 1:54 PM | Link to this

TPaul, I wouldn’t disagree with your points of 1:28…at all. However, should that come to pass, then I’ll probably take 2009 off, myself, LOL. Because I guarantee that every “pitching-pitching-pitching” poster here will be “b!tching-b!tching-b!tching” in regard to the lack of offense, by the time May 1 rolls around. And life’s too short to endure six months of THAT!

By DAP

November 6, 2008 1:55 PM | Link to this

bubdylan evidence is with not-nice guys finishing first in this sport. And also with the nice guys finishing last in this blog.

ok, im sorry. let me rephrase as well…no, it is not.

By RC

November 6, 2008 1:59 PM | Link to this

The problem with the team as currently constructed is that there are NO known quantities….there are just varying degrees of risk and upside. Escobar COULD develop into an All-Star, though not likely. Chipper COULD play 150 games, though not likely. KJ and Francouer COULD experience resurgences, though not a sure thing. McCann is the closest thing we’ve got to a known quantity, and your catcher is always one foul tip or play at the plate away from major injury. The other problem is that we have a TON of players that may or may not be anything more than good bench players (Diaz, Prado, Infante, Blanco, Anderson, B. Jones…). The only way to find out is to play them, but to go into the season saying these guys will play major roles is to take a HUGE gamble on the season, and it’s unlikely they will all pan out. Wren is in a very tough situation, and it’s going to take some creative problem solving to pull together a competitive team by March.

By Jersey Gil

November 6, 2008 1:59 PM | Link to this

Anyone If we need a leftfielder with power , why we need to look for a provent MLB player, why not look for other team surplus minor league prospect. If i’m a GM i try to make this trade: Lilli/Morton for “Lou Montanez” for the Baltimore Orioles, Baltimore need a SS and they have plenty Outfielder, This Kid was the MVP Triple Crown winner in the Eastern League (AA) last year. This Kid has Power and a good Glove.

By Marty

November 6, 2008 2:02 PM | Link to this

Bobby’s Cox Interesting point re: Peavy’s splits. Now, I would argue that a two-game sample at Turner Field and a different two-game sample in the playoffs is not much to go on. With regard to the home/road splits, however, that concerned me, so I dug a little deeper and now feel better about it.

Here are Peavy’s home/away ERAs for the past 5 seasons:

2008 - 1.74/4.28; 2007 - 2.51/2.57; 2006 - 3.75/4.57; 2005 - 2.81/2.98; 2004 - 2.21/2.33

Obviously, 2005 was a bad year altogether, which leaves the only year in which there was a startling difference in Peavy’s home/road ERAs as 2008. Interestingly, here is where Peavy’s road starts were made in 2008: LA Dodgers (twice), Houston, Florida, Wrigley, Yankee Stadium, Arizona (twice), St. Louis, Cincy, Pittsburgh, Coors Field, and Miller Park. So, out of 13 road starts, 6 were at complete bandboxes. It may not explain his 2008 splits completely, but it’s a thought. Another thought is that it was mere coincidence. One bad year on the road, though, is not going to concern me too much, at least not when it doesn’t appear to have been much of a problem before that.

By Mr J

November 6, 2008 2:11 PM | Link to this

If the Braves don’t want K. Greene back in a trade, then mayber the Padres are finding that nobody does. Maybe they are in a similar situation to what the Braves have with Francoeur- can’t get true value now in a trade, but if performance improves in 2009 then there will be a better return.

So if the Padres need to stick with Greene for one more year, then maybe Peavy can be had for Schaefer and a list of pitchers not named Hanson. No Escobar required. Then what?

If Escobar is retained, then KJ becomes tradeable for Ludwick. Who plays 2nd? Prado? What if Renteria were willing and able to make the position switch? Wouldn’t you rather have Edgar in your line-up than Martine?

You then have a lineup like this: 1. Escobar SS, 2. Renteria 2b 3. Jones 3b 4. Ludwick LF 5. McCann C 6. Francoeur LF 7. Kotchman 1b 8. Blanco/Anderson CF

You think thats crazy then think of this: What if the Dodgers would like to be rid of Andruw so much that they’ed send him to us for a bag of balls and eat half his salary? He would give us a year of CF and provide a bridge to Gorkys. I would bat Andruw 6th and bump Francoeur down to 8th. That line-up has lots of power and a nice Lefty-Righty balance.

Somebody pass the pipe back this way…

By Marty

November 6, 2008 2:12 PM | Link to this

FloridaBrave take a page out of the Dodgers’ book this off-season. Keep your prospects and sign free agents to shorter-term, higher salary per year deals whereas they “hold-the-fort” yet at the same time don’t block any of the younger talent. While the Dodgers have done a good job of scouting and developing young talent, the rest of their “book” has been to sign overpriced free agent after overpriced free agent, desperately hoping that at least a couple of them will work out. See: Furcal, Pierre, Andruw, Nomar, Kent, etc. Let’s not do that.

By kerrielynn

November 6, 2008 2:16 PM | Link to this

I think the most logical thing to do is to trade Yunel in the Peavy deal. I will agree that he is very talented and probably has a good career ahead of him, however his attitude and sometimes over zealous playing in the field does not fit into the braves clubhouse. I recall seeing numerous collisions or close one’s this past season where Yunel had to “hot dog it” and try to play every position on the field. Than there came a string of games where he just completely “forgot” how to play SS. Keeping Kelly is the way to go. HE just got off of his second full season back from Tommy John surgery and he made massive improvements. He has some of the best statitstics out there for a second baseman and I see next year as being even better than this year. He will continue where he left off.
We also all know that as much as we love Chipper, he probably won’t be able to play a full season, which would mean given the talent that was shown at the end of the season Martin would be a great fill in at 3rd when needed. Obviously he could also fill in at 2nd when needed. HE has proven to be a valuable asset to the team. If we could not get a player like Edgar back (which would be incredible if we could) than I would say you play Omar at SS until you feel Brent is ready for the Bigs. IF you start Omar at SS in Spring Training I believe we will be less likely to see those mental errors he had last season. He is a hard worker and a very talented athlete.

By TennesseePaul

November 6, 2008 2:20 PM | Link to this

ncscoots: There will be some sober minded folks around who realize the beauty of having a strong rotation and one more offseason to build. You can scroll past the B!tchers and mingle with the rest, right?

By Tomahawkin

November 6, 2008 2:20 PM | Link to this

Anyone interested in going after Hideki Matsui…? I was talking to a yankees fan who cites that they could trade Matsui for pitching (while eating up half of his salary) and then going hard after Manny…

Matsui isn’t Gozilla like he was hyped up to be (From ESPNY) but he is very consistant…

Bumping some old Ice Cube (Wicked), Nuff Respect to Cube. At least he hasn’t sold out…

By Wiley T

November 6, 2008 2:24 PM | Link to this

What if the Dodgers would like to be rid of Andruw so much that they’ed send him to us for a bag of balls and eat half his salary?

Mr J No, the balls are too valuable.

By Tomahawkin

November 6, 2008 2:25 PM | Link to this

While I like to see the Renteria talk coming back, Why has everyone given up on K.J?

If he rakes for a whole season like he did the second half of 08 he is capable of drinving in 85 runs/year…

Also is there any rumors of him moving back to the outfield if we don’t add a big bat in the OF?

I also like the idea of bring Nate Mclouth down to the “A”…but he won’t come at a cheap price, since he will be an essential part of the Pirates Future if they have any…

By Efrim

November 6, 2008 2:26 PM | Link to this

Okay, some Keith Law chat questions and answers:

Steve (St. Louis): Do you see the Cardinals trading Ludwick for Yunel Escobar? There have been some rumors and it would be a good sell high for the Cards. Would Atlanta do it?

Keith Law: (2:08 PM ET ) Great deal for the Cards but I don’t see Atlanta doing it. They really like Escobar and they don’t have a ready replacement for him.

Patrick (Mobile, AL): Do you see Peavy going to atlanta and if so will hanson be part of the deal.

Keith Law: (2:14 PM ET ) I still think that’s the most likely destination but Hanson and Heyward will not be part of the deal. The bigger question, again, is when and by how much SD lowers its asking price.

Mike (San Diego): Buster Olney speculates: “At some point, the Braves and Padres may well strike a deal built around shortstop Yunel Escobar, center fielder Jordan Schaefer, pitcher Charlie Morton and one more pitching prospect. The Padres are known to have interest in left-hander Jeff Locke, a 20-year-old who pitched in Class A last season.” Is this enough in return for the Padres?

Keith Law: (2:19 PM ET ) Yes, that’s more than I’d give up for Peavy. It does give them two major-league players (Morton goes right in their rotation) and two top prospects, but leaves Heyward and Hanson and Freeman and Flowers (how could they not have interest in Flowers??) in Atlanta.

Pat (Philly): Is this Peavy to Cubs stuff just noise to make Atlanta panic, or are the Cubs competitive in this deal?

Keith Law: (2:19 PM ET ) I’m struggling to put together a good enough offer from the Cubs. Vitters and … um … well, they could send Ceda back.

By Robert

November 6, 2008 2:27 PM | Link to this

DOB

Do you think we are going to trade Jordan Schafer?

By McFann O

November 6, 2008 2:31 PM | Link to this

Saltywoody McCann filled in last year, but to me, he’s a five-hole hitter.

I think so, too. His AVG, OBP, and SLG are all better in the sixth spot…but, in 69 career games (62 starts) in the sixth spot, he’s got 33 RBI, 22 doubles, and 10 homers, whereas in the fifth spot, in 211 career games (210 starts), he’s got 161 RBI, 57 doubles, and 40 homers.

So that’s four times as many homers, about five times as many RBI, and almost three times as many doubles in a little over three times as many games…

I’m also of the mind (no kidding) that thinks he should stay in the fifth spot all the time—but that depends upon how he and Francoeur do against lefties next year.

I gotta split. I’ll be back, um…after later.

By Raddad

November 6, 2008 2:33 PM | Link to this

Jake Peavys playoff ERA is high because he had a cracked or broken rib if I remember correctly versus the cardinals. I would throw that number out the door.

By Efrim

November 6, 2008 2:36 PM | Link to this

And another….

Eric (Atlanta): Suprised to not hear Cole Rohrbough’s name brought up in the Padres talks. What is his ceiling?

Keith Law: (2:27 PM ET ) I agree - mid-rotation starter potential, had a down year but as much due to injuries (biceps, then ankle) as anything else. In a deal like a Peavy trade, you want to try to add one guy at the back end who is undervalued at the moment - the way Oakland did getting Josh Donaldson.

By FloridaBrave

November 6, 2008 2:40 PM | Link to this

Marty,

Their free agents haven’t worked out, but I think the strategy could be a good one to replicate.

People are going to try to emulate the D-Rays now and the Braves have the system and scout well enough to pull this off. In addition-unlike the Devil Rays- they also have the money to bridge the gap between the present and future.

Peavy is not a short-term fix obviously but the rumored package right now is hefty. Peavy for the right price is fine but I don’t want the Braves to be so caught up with Peavy that they lose sight of the big picture.

By Midnight Express99

November 6, 2008 2:41 PM | Link to this

I feel uneasy with Yunel Escobar, Charlie Morton,Jordan Schafer, and Jeff Locke. I have made it clear Peavy should be a Brave but Yunel and Schafer are two centerpieces. Keep Schafer out of this. We have major issues in OF and the last idea would be trading the future star. Hernedez is still a few years away.

According to ESPN’s Buster Olney, the Nationals are preparing to make a significant offer to Mark Teixeira.

Unexpected Rumor!

By Melly

November 6, 2008 2:47 PM | Link to this

DOB, why are the Braves reluctant to give up Morton in a deal for Peavy? Is it simply a cost issue? Projecting young pitchers is tough at best, and they are banking on the hope Morton becomes 75% the pitcher Peavy is at only 27 years old. Violent delivery or not, I make the trade for Peavy and give up Morton gladly. When Peavy’s deal is up in 3-4 years, the Padres won’t be able to afford Morton, then you trade for him with the $ you save with Peavy off the books :)

By Mr J

November 6, 2008 2:48 PM | Link to this

Wiley T,

It’s easy to laugh at Andruw, but even after the 2007 disaster, if you could have signed him for $8M, wouldn’t you hve done it? Without Schaefer in the picture, I’d do that deal in a heartbeat.

By Dan

November 6, 2008 3:00 PM | Link to this

I really want to see Andruw bounce back and have a great season. He was one of my favorite players to watch.

By DAP

November 6, 2008 3:01 PM | Link to this

Mr J but even after the 2007 disaster, if you could have signed him for $8M, wouldn’t you hve done it?

well, sure…but now its after the 2008 season. i wouldnt want him for the league minimum.

By BravesFanInRockies

November 6, 2008 3:01 PM | Link to this

Mr J,

I’d take my chances with Anderson or Blanco rather than Andruw, unless you’re paying him the major league minimum and could release him. He looks like he’s done.

*Tomahawkin,8

Matsui’s power numbers have declined steadily the last four or five years. And all the reports from NY suggest that Matsui’s lost whatever range he had a few years back. He can’t get to anything any more. If you’re going to go for an expensive OF who can’t cover any ground, I’d rather get Dunn, who’s younger and can still pound the ball.

By Nuke LaLoosh

November 6, 2008 3:09 PM | Link to this

DOB and fellow bloggers- Everyone seems to frown upon giving up Escobar and taking on Khalil Greene… but I believe that if the Braves were to take Greene in a trade with the Padres for Peavy and Greene in exchange for Escobar and two lesser prospects, it would be good for all sides. I have a feeling Greene could have a bounce-back type year- let’s not forget that this guy has potential to hit 25 homers and drive in 80 - 100 RBIs (in the right batting order slot, of course). Escobar won’t do that, in my opinion. I think Greene just needs change of scenery to fulfill his potential. Peavy costs us what 12 M, Greene 6.5 M? That’s less than half of the Braves alloted spending money. Then trade KJ for Ludwig- there’s our power-hitting OF without taking on much more salary, if any. Braves then still have over 20 M to get another pitcher on free agent market. What do you guys think?

By BravesFanInRockies

November 6, 2008 3:12 PM | Link to this

If the Cubs land Peavy and re-sign Dempster, they’d better hope Mark Cuban buys the team. It’ll take his billions just to meet payroll and rebuild the farm system.

By Mr J

November 6, 2008 3:16 PM | Link to this

DAP & BFIR,

I understand your apprehension about Andruw, but I don’t think the man is done at 30. Fat, yes, done, no.

I think the year in LA might have knocked some sense into his knuckle head. Have Bobby tell him to report at 210 lbs, be prepared to bat lower in the order, and only worry about being the best defensive CF he can be- watever you hit will be a bonus. I think there’s a good chance we’d all be happy with the result.

It also would be great box office! The increased gate might cover a large part of the gamble.

By Bobby's Cox

November 6, 2008 3:19 PM | Link to this

Marty

Thanks for “digging deeper”. Good post.

By Lee in S GA

November 6, 2008 3:22 PM | Link to this

DAP,

Agree with you about A.J. Last season anyone would have signed him for 8 million but after this past season with injuries and all, a minor league contract would be it. Just don’t think bringing players back like Renteria or A. Jones will do much to make this team contenders again. I just as soon give younger players and prospects w/in the organization a chance to see what they can do.

By macdwolfpack

November 6, 2008 3:24 PM | Link to this

I would trade Escobar and then resign Renterria on the cheap to play shortstop until I felt Lillbridge or Hicks was ready. I’d give up Morton or Rorhrbaugh in the deal. I wouldn’t do a deal with Morton, Esco,Schaefer,and Locke. Agree with Keith Law the price is way too high. Padres won’t get that price somewhere else

By Marty

November 6, 2008 3:24 PM | Link to this

FloridaBrave - I certainly agree with the sentiment of not wanting to give up too much to get Peavy, but on the other hand, it’s kind of like trying to time the stock market — if you speculate for too long, the opportunity is gone — and I think that when you have the opportunity to get a true #1 starter like Peavy, you have to get it done. This was the Mets’ thinking when they pulled off the Santana trade, and as boneheaded as many of their moves have been over the years, that was a good one. It’s a tough choice, no doubt, but I think that it’s a trade we need to make.

Nuke LaLoosh - Escobar at least as good a chance of driving in 80-100 RBI than Greene, and Escobar will hit .280+ in all likelihood. Greene is a career .248 hitters in almost 2,400 at-bats, with an on-base percentage of .304. Even in 2007, which featured his best power numbers by far (27 HR, 97 RBI), he batted just .254 with an awful OBP of .291. Greene has played 5 full seasons in the majors and is now 29 years old, and he has never hit more than 15 homers or driven in more than 70 in any other season.

Even more troubling about Greene, however, is the fact that his walk rate has been steadily decreasing and his strikeout rate has been increasing at an alarming rate. Last season, Greene struck out 100 times and walked just 22 — in only 389 at-bats!

These are the types of numbers one could get out of someone like Lillibridge or any number of other players, and it wouldn’t cost us $6.5 million, which is what Greene is due next year.

I’m not saying that taking on Greene would be the worst decision ever, but I don’t think that he has much upside.

By Bobby's Cox

November 6, 2008 3:25 PM | Link to this

I could be going off of selective memory, but wasn’t Ludwick’s stats a result of hitting near Pujouls in the batting order?

I could be wrong, but when Pujouls missed time last year, I’m not so sure Ludwick did that well.

Do y’all think Ludwick will produce in Atlanta without Pujouls?

I think he’ll do ok, but not 37 HR ok. With that said, I’d trade for him in a heartbeat for Johnson due to the Braves having a decent backup for 2nd, but no one solid for the outfield.

By nolie

November 6, 2008 3:25 PM | Link to this

Francoeur looks more like the young Eric Davis that he did two and three seasons agoN8

a young Eric Davis? Really?IMO he ain’t nothing like Eric, in fact I would have been hard pressed to ever have come up with that name to compare him to. Eric was a 125 OPS+ hitter with tremendous speed. Jeff is a 97 OPS+ hitter who is very average in speed. Just not seeing this one N8.

By Nuke LaLoosh

November 6, 2008 3:32 PM | Link to this

Forgot to mention in my message above, Prado fills in at 2B if KJ trade happens. Greene takes Escobar’s place, so you’ve left no holes in lineup or defense. In my scenario, the Braves have added power to the lineup twice (Greene, at least more power than Escobar, and then Ludwick). Plus, you’ve done all this without even spending half of your supposed $40 M available. And remember- this is just my opinion, so don’t get too worked up like some of you are prone to doing… I’m just tossin’ out some what if’s… we’re all friends here.

By Bravestillidie

November 6, 2008 3:33 PM | Link to this

For all Greene speculators

I would not bother worrying about Greene being a Brave. As DOB has stated, First the Braves don’t want him…and Second, for some crazy unknown reason other teams do. Towers has already been quoted as saying that if both players are moved it would be in seperate trades. So don’t worry about him coming to Atlanta, most likely ain’t gonna happen, especially not if the Braves can help it.

By DAP

November 6, 2008 3:35 PM | Link to this

marty you have the opportunity to get a true #1 starter like Peavy, you have to get it done. This was the Mets’ thinking when they pulled off the Santana trade,

not really. the mets refused to trade what the twins were asking, until they were the only ones trying to get santana, and drove the price down. they didnt make the deal for santana as fast as they could.

By nolie

November 6, 2008 3:38 PM | Link to this

Am I the only Brent Lillibridge fan in the room?Dont Trade

Might be. the guy has hiy worse and worse as he has ascended the ladder especially as regards getting on base and not making outs. He has the defensive tools no doubt, but it is still a big question is he is anything more than a mediocre #8 hitter in the bigs. I’m hoping that he isn’t what they are gonna count on if Esco goes

By Bobby's Cox

November 6, 2008 3:39 PM | Link to this

FloridaBrave

Excellent 1:37 pm post. I agree.

There’s still a lot of talent out there for the braves to trade: Marek, Medlin, Redmond, Lilbridge, B. Jones, Anderson, Blanco, Locke, Rohrborough, KJ, Prado, Francoeur, JoJo Reyes, Campillo, Morton, Diaz.

I wouldn’t trade Escobar because there’s no one there to take his place. People want to give Lilibridge a chance. Are you kidding me? We’ll have 2 players on our roster hitting .230 the Right Fielder and our short stop.

Maybe San Diego’s is continuing to ask about Hanson to keep the Braves offer high, i.e. Escobar and Schafer. If the Braves lay low for a while, maybe they can get Peavy for less.

Schafer should be in center next year, and Escobar at short. Period.

By Nuke LaLoosh

November 6, 2008 3:41 PM | Link to this

macdwolfpack- I’m a fan of bringing back Renteria for a year or two to fill in if Escobar is traded. I like that idea, although I worry about Renteria’s age and range just a bit- but not enough to nix the idea.

By BA

November 6, 2008 3:42 PM | Link to this

n8, Eric Davis was spectacular. Part of the greatest outfield that never was.

By Robert

November 6, 2008 3:47 PM | Link to this

I honestly don’t know if we will be a better team after this trade. We can’t give up Escobar and Schafer. We need to relax and Frank Wren needs to be willing to walk away. Kelly Johnson, Charlie Morton, and Gorkys Hernandez and Jeff Locke is a far better option than the Cubs can offer. Felix Pie and Ronny Cedeno are bench warmers. KEvin Towers is creating suitors where their aren’t any. Like Boras did with A-Rod. Texas made the Mistake. Let’s hope Wren keeps cool.

By Jonathon

November 6, 2008 3:47 PM | Link to this

Latest from Ken Rosenthal:

In the first big showdown of the offseason, it’s the Braves vs. the Cubs for Padres right-hander Jake Peavy.

Both teams continued to target Peavy as the general managers’ meetings concluded Thursday, and the Padres’ discussions with the Cubs could be expanded to include a third team, according to major-league sources.

The Braves’ package includes shortstop Yunel Escobar, either left-hander Jo-Jo Reyes or right-hander Charlie Morton and a third player, believed to be a top prospect, sources said.

The details of the Cubs’ proposal are not known and likely are fluid. The Padres could spin one or more of the players they would receive from the Cubs to get additional pieces from another team, sources said.

The Braves’ edge over the Cubs is that Escobar already is an established major leaguer, while Reyes or Morton also could help the Padres next season. The Cubs’ better young players are in the lower minors.

By Lee in S GA

November 6, 2008 3:50 PM | Link to this

People want to give Lilibridge a chance. Are you kidding me? We’ll have 2 players on our roster hitting .230 the Right Fielder and our short stop.

And yet he is on your talent list to use as trade bait.

By N8

November 6, 2008 3:52 PM | Link to this

nolie

“a young Eric Davis? Really?IMO he ain’t nothing like Eric, in fact I would have been hard pressed to ever have come up with that name to compare him to. Eric was a 125 OPS+ hitter with tremendous speed. Jeff is a 97 OPS+ hitter who is very average in speed. Just not seeing this one N8.”

Yes. Eric Davis had a TON more speed than Francoeur. But their numbers AT THE PLATE and their play in the OF very much resembled each other, IMO.

In Davis’ 1st 371 games (ages 21-25), he had 82 HR, 229 RBI and 156 SB.

In Jeff’s 1st 397 games (ages 21-23), he had 62 HR and 253 RBI, 9 SB.

The hidden number is games played. Those “games played” for Davis was over his first 4 seasons. Jeff played in 26 more games in his first 3 seasons (2 full).

Jeff’s reckless abandon attitude in RF reminds me of a YOUNG Eric Davis.

I get that they are two different players. But Jeff came up with the same fanfare that a young Eric Davis did. Golden Boy and all.

After that, I have to agree with you.

By Don't Trade Franceour

November 6, 2008 3:52 PM | Link to this

Does anyone else think the braves should be looking at Brad Penny?

I know the sore shoulder is a horrible sign, but he is only 30 and not too far removed form starting the All-Star game. Only a few more than a dozen starts last year, but 200+ innings in ‘07 and 189 innings in 2006.

Penny is a big guy and a hard thrower, and historically those types of guys seem to be able to pitch to their 40s.

By DAP

November 6, 2008 3:53 PM | Link to this

bobby’s cox ludwick mostly batted in the cleanup spot behind pujols.

from what i can tell, ludwick did struggle alot when pujols wasnt in the lineup.

do i think he will produce in atlanta? definetly. pujols and chipper are pretty similar hitters. ludwick sandwiched between mccann and chipper would do very well, i think. he will have more RBIs than he did with st. louis, too, because i doubt he will ever be out of the cleanup spot.

By Anders

November 6, 2008 3:56 PM | Link to this

DAP

not really. the mets refused to trade what the twins were asking, until they were the only ones trying to get santana, and drove the price down. they didnt make the deal for santana as fast as they could.

That’s what I’ve been trying to explain to Lew. If anything I think Towers is trying not to get caught in the same web as the Twins. The way out is to say the limited market Peavy’s given him doesn’t work. We’ll hold on the trade - Then see what happens. Does Peavy crack or do one of their suitors. No rush here for Towers. Pitching is at a premium.

By Doc Holliday

November 6, 2008 4:00 PM | Link to this

I would like to know………..I have read some opinions in the last few days that some say that Prado is not better than KJ and that Prado is not ready and not better than Yunel. This is kind of a poll…….the people that dont think that Prado could put better numbers and that cant perform at least as good (defensively) as KJ or Yunel please raise your hand.

Just for the record, IMO, Prado is capable to put the same numbers and play defense equally as good as Yunel and better than KJ. And I can tell you………there might be some braves executives that might be thinking the same, if not, yunels and KJs trade talk would not be so loud.

By Marty

November 6, 2008 4:02 PM | Link to this

DAP the mets refused to trade what the twins were asking, until they were the only ones trying to get santana, and drove the price down. they didnt make the deal for santana as fast as they could.

The Mets traded their most prized prospect (Carlos Gomez) along with three other prospects, one of whom is a pretty good looking young pitcher (Mulvey) and another of whom (Humber) is still believed by some to have a pretty high ceiling. Although Gomez is young and inconsistent, he has already had some success at the major-league level and still projects, according to many, to be much better than, say, Yunel Escobar. The rest are prospects, so who knows. This, for a guy who was only signed for one more season, and for whom they had to shell out a ton of cash to work out an extension with.

Peavy, by contrast, is locked up at a very (relatively) affordable rate for 4-5 more years. What the Braves are supposedly offering is pretty much in line, proportionately, with what the Mets gave the Twins.

By skull

November 6, 2008 4:03 PM | Link to this

DOB earlier today:

“Braves are going to make some moves, folks. No doubt. Significant moves. Just a matter of time.”

Wondering if there’s a surprise trade being considered we haven’t heard about?

Who, if anyone, on here, predicted the Edgar/JJJ trade last year?

Git-r-dun Frank!

By Bonzo

November 6, 2008 4:07 PM | Link to this

Towers is not dealing from a position of strength as each day passes. We’ll have to give up someone like Escobar, but I hope the rest is something along the lines of Morton, Rorhbough and Brandon Jones (although I’m afraid it will ultimately have to be Flowers or Gorkys in that last spot). Still, to win and win in the postseason, got to have a potential shut-down No. 1.

To replace Escobar, I’d be interested in someone like Orlando Cabrera. I think Cabrera’s a Type A free agent. He’d be pretty good, cheaper than Furcal but more expensive than Edgar.

If Escobar is out then I’m assuming Kelly is back at 2B and the Ludwick trade is off the table. How about signing Raul Ibanez for LF then?

I was hoping Wren would get in on the A.J. Burnett or Derek Lowe sweepstakes, but if Boston and the New York teams are in it, then I’d guess we might be out. That means Dempster is more likely who he will pursue heavily, but he’ll have to outbid the Cubbies in years, probably.

What would you think if the Braves looked like this in April:

1. Orlando Cabrera, SS
2. K.J., 2B
3. U Know Who, 3B
4. Ibanez, LF
5. McCann, C
6. Francouer, RF
7. Kotchman, 1B
8. Shafer, CF
9. Peavy, SP

Other starters: Dempster, JJJ, Hampton, Hanson

Starting lineup would have lots of lefties. Is it too many? Is Ibanez not enough for LF? I think he’d give Chipper adequate protection.

By Marty

November 6, 2008 4:08 PM | Link to this

Don’t Trade Francoeur - I, for one, do not agree with you that the Braves should be looking at Penny. He’s never lived up to his supposed potential, and he remains a huge injury risk. I will also demand to be terribly overpaid. Let someone else make that mistake.

By LKS

November 6, 2008 4:09 PM | Link to this

Mike (Charlotte): So are you still against the Braves trading a prospect package for Jake Peavy?

Jim Callis: Yes. Still think they’re more than one player away and that Peavy will slightly disappoint whoever gets him.

Mark (Boston): Beckett or Peavy?

Jim Callis: Beckett. Has proven he can pitch outside of a pitcher’s park and has a much better track record in big games.

By Jeff R

November 6, 2008 4:09 PM | Link to this

I don’t believe that Wren will walk from a deal with the Padres if they want Escobar as the centerpiece - as long as he doesn’t have to give up any of his top tier prospects. I strongly believe that Morton would be included. Then, I think, there’s a drop down to a Locke caliber pitching prospect (perhaps, Locke will be it.).

That leaves Wren to decide shortstop. Might he bring back Renteria for a season? Don’t recall what Renteria wants. But it’s possible. Lillibridge doesn’t begin to make up for te loss of Escobar’s offense, but I do think he’s a more capable hitter than he should last season (He was bounced around a lot). And he can field th position capably.

By Marty

November 6, 2008 4:10 PM | Link to this

Doc Holiday - Prado may (and I do mean “may”) hit for a higher average than Kelly, but Prado will never hit for power like Kelly could (or even like he has).

By Efrim

November 6, 2008 4:13 PM | Link to this

So it sounds like that third player Rosenthal is talking about is Jordan Schafer. Maybe the other top prospect is Gorkys Hernandez. Who knows?

One thing is for certain, if we get Peavy, Reyes/Morton and Escobar are included.

Seems like a lot, especially if they add Schafer and Locke.

By DAP

November 6, 2008 4:13 PM | Link to this

anders peavy also isnt a free agent at the end of 2009 like santana was. not only does this make it possible for towers to get more for him, but he still has alot of trade value after 2009.

wren waiting and biding his time is a smart move. you have to make every trade on your own terms.

By Doc Holliday

November 6, 2008 4:17 PM | Link to this

Sorry Bonzo but the cubs are the front runners for Peavy and Dempster……….

By Anders

November 6, 2008 4:18 PM | Link to this

Marty

The Mets traded their most prized prospect (Carlos Gomez)

Wrong - Fernando Martinez was and still is their most prized prospect. He was a top 20 before the trade. Plus the Twins wanted Reyes. I wasn’t suprised when Reyes didn’t go but I absolutely thought Martinez was gone. Gomez is ok, but no way he has the tools or potential of Escobar. There’s a big difference between a light hitting fast outfielder and a solid two way short stop with pop.

Unless there’s something going on that we don’t know about Escobar (physical or mental make up) I wouldn’t give him up. He could anchor your infield for years after Chipper retires. Peavy is a solid pitcher but not a must have horse. If I’m Wren I wait out Towers and take my chances.

By Steve from OH

November 6, 2008 4:20 PM | Link to this

Escobar, Schafer, Morton and Locke? Hell no.

I would do Escobar, Gorkys and Morton. Would not add Locke into that deal. If they want a low-level guy, offer Richard Sullivan or someone like that. Locke’s too good to be a throw-in.

I think the Cubs thing is a sign that Towers is getting desperate. Just don’t think the Cubs have the youngsters to complete a deal.

I’d do a deal around Esco and Morton, but wouldn’t add much else past Gorkys.

By Marty

November 6, 2008 4:26 PM | Link to this

LKS

Mark (Boston): Beckett or Peavy?

Jim Callis: Beckett. Has proven he can pitch outside of a pitcher’s park and has a much better track record in big games.

Beckett sure was great in “big games” this year: 14.1 IP, 22 H, 14 ER, 6 BB, 14 K, 7 HR in his 3 postseason appearances. You would think that his 8.93 ERA and 1.95 WHIP this postseason would have taken some luster off of his “big game pitcher” reputation, but apparently not to some folks.

By Doc Holliday

November 6, 2008 4:27 PM | Link to this

Marty………..Prado has little less power than KJ……..but there is something he has…………and that is the ability to find the GAP. And he does it very very well. He might hit less HR, but more 2B and 3B if he gets to play every day.

By McFann O

November 6, 2008 4:28 PM | Link to this

OK, I read a thing (well, part of it) about the USA team in the WBC…it had a “possible projection of Team USA’s 2009 roster, based on players survey, positional breakdown and certain variables, primarily MLB teams’ attitude toward participation by specific players.”

There are two Braves listed: Chipper Jones and Mike Gonzalez. We’ll see what happens…

Oh! And guess what! I found out when they’re gonna announce the NL Silver Sluggers: November 13!

Now I cann quit buggin’ you guys! ; )

By Don't Trade Franceour, Sheesh

November 6, 2008 4:28 PM | Link to this

It just seems to me that giving Penny $45 miillion over 4 years isn’t a bad idea if nothing comes of the Peavy dealings…

Doc Holliday..I’m all for Prado. But of him, Yunel and Kelly, he is the third best player (but his glove is probably a little better than Kelly’s).

By Steve from OH

November 6, 2008 4:29 PM | Link to this

There is video of all of the Braves’ AFL players, including Flowers and Hanson on the official site.

By Efrim

November 6, 2008 4:30 PM | Link to this

Marty

I haven’t read the convo between you and Anders, but that Johan deal was a steal.

Fernando Martinez and Mike Pelfrey are still in that organization. There is no reason why they shouldn’t be in Twins uniforms.

It was basically a salary dump for Twins GM Bill Smith. Although, they could afford him….

So it was really a miscalculation on his part. If Santana is on that team in 2008, they win the division. Then when Santana left this offseason, they take the two draft picks. It was a bad move from the Twins GM and everyone knew it at the time as well.

By RC

November 6, 2008 4:34 PM | Link to this

Anders

I agree about Martinez being the top Mets prospect, and the Mets did get a great deal on Santana for only Gomez. The difference between that trade and whatever Peavy goes for is the contract attached. With Santana, the Twins were losing him at the end of the season anyway, and the Mets had to fork over what was essentially a free agent level contract to Santana in order to get him. With Peavy, he’s signed for the next 4 seasons at below market value, with an option for the 5th season. Because of this, the price will likely be a lot higher for him than what the Mets paid for Santana. I do agree that Escobar + Schafer is too much, but Escobar and smaller pieces I am completely ok with.

By Goodoleboy58

November 6, 2008 4:35 PM | Link to this

*Don’t Trade Franceour, Sheesh *

Let’s throw lots of money at Jason Schmidt and Pedro Martinez while we are at it

By nolie

November 6, 2008 4:36 PM | Link to this

numbers AT THE PLATE and their play in the OF very much resembled each other, IMO.

In Davis’ 1st 371 games (ages 21-25), he had 82 HR, 229 RBI and 156 SB.

In Jeff’s 1st 397 games (ages 21-23), he had 62 HR and 253 RBI, 9 SB. N8

nah, I’m sorry N8 but you are pushing it. Davis was a much better hitter . Like I said he was a 125 OPS+. Jeff was only dead average at 100 OPS+ even before his poor 2008. I really don’t see that they are even close. No biggie anyway, just chatter

By Doc Holliday

November 6, 2008 4:39 PM | Link to this

One thing that i think is in Braves favor in the Peavy sweepstakes, is our weakness……. Just think about it. If you were the padres and you had Peavys control, would you send him to a team that was already strong pitchingwise? If padres are thinking playoffs……..which rotation would you rather face?
ZAMBRANO, PEAVEY, DEMPSTER, LILLY, HARDEN?

or

PEAVY, JURJENS, HAMPTON, HANSON, CAMPILLO (which might not even get to the playoffs.)

I think its not only what you get, but also the monster you are helping develop. I think Cubs will have to give up way too much in order to get Peavy………maybe not way much more but certainly more than the Braves will need to give.

So the point is……..in this case, being the weaker team, will help us in this situation.

By Anders

November 6, 2008 4:40 PM | Link to this

Don’t Trade Franceur

It just seems to me that giving Penny $45 miillion over 4 years isn’t a bad idea if nothing comes of the Peavy dealings…

The Dodgers kicked Penny to the curb at a savings of $7.2 mil next year. Doesn’t that tell you something about Penny? Why would you give him $11 mil a year for 4 years?

He’s obviously got a bad wing.

By RC

November 6, 2008 4:41 PM | Link to this

McFann O

In addition to Chipper and Gonzalez, isn’t McCann almost a lock to be invited to the USA team? I figure Mauer has to be on there, and I’d say McCann is #2 on the list. Russell Martin is Canadien, and Jason Varitek is….Jason Varitek. I love Tek, but his days of an elite player ended about 3 years ago.

By Doc Holliday

November 6, 2008 4:43 PM | Link to this

BTW Marty………Prado had a .461 SLG% vs. KJs .446.

Isnt SLG %a stat related to hitters power?

By nolie

November 6, 2008 4:43 PM | Link to this

….the people that dont think that Prado could put better numbers and that cant perform at least as good (defensively) as KJ or Yunel please raise your hand.Doc

at second Prado is a bit better than Johnson through their careers defensively. at short it is not even close. Marteen does not have either the range or the arm that Esco does. Prado’s lack of range is the reason that they very seldom put him at SS. As a hitter he is a bit less than either one, and I am a prado fan who boosted him all last winter. He’s a good player but not in Esco’s league at all. He definitely will not be the go to SS if Yunel is dealt. He comes much closer to being able to replace Johnson though with less pop.

By DAP

November 6, 2008 4:44 PM | Link to this

marty i posted this eariler, but it didnt seem to take.

im aware of what the mets gave up for santana. im also aware that the twins were asking for alot more at first. ALOT more. also, i believe minaya ended up giving the twins less than his original offer for santana.

minaya decided to do the deal on his terms or not at all, and it benifited the team. i think wren should do the same thing. do the trade on his terms only, not jump at the opportunity to get peavy.

By Richie

November 6, 2008 4:47 PM | Link to this

I dont see how the Cubs are front runners for Peavy’s services. I see him coming to ATL. Peter Abraham, has said the Padres have told Jake will be traded. The choices are down to 3 clubs And the Yankees aren’t in the mix for him.

By Marty

November 6, 2008 4:47 PM | Link to this

Doc Holliday - Kelly Johnson hit 39 doubles and 7 triples this year to go along with his 12 homers. I’m pretty sure that he had more doubles than any NL 2B not named Chase Utley. I really like Prado, but there’s just no empirical reason to believe that he will hit for nearly that kind of power. Prado never hit more than 25 doubles, 6 triples, or 5 homers in any minor-league season, and his career slugging percentage in the minors was a paltry .393. Kelly has slugged .440 in the majors and slugged .464 in the minors.

By Efrim

November 6, 2008 4:50 PM | Link to this

Steve from OH

Here is Ken Rosenthal:

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8765068/Cubs,-Braves-in-running-to-get-Pads’-Peavy

The Braves’ package includes shortstop Yunel Escobar, either left-hander Jo-Jo Reyes or right-hander Charlie Morton and a third player, believed to be a top prospect, sources said.

I am going to guess that third player is Jordan Schafer….

I still say Hell No. Make that third player Gorkys Hernandez.

Escobar, Morton or Reyes and Gorkys Hernandez for Jake Peavy.

By Doc Holliday

November 6, 2008 4:50 PM | Link to this

Don’t Trade Franceour, Sheesh you are wrong, Prado is not the 3rd best player out of Yunel, KJ and Prado……..he just happens to be the player with the less ABs and Innings played.

I cant recall seeing that boy look bad at the plate. He made some superb plays at 2B and 3B.

Great ABs while pinch hitting. Im not saying he is superior than yunel and that he hits better than KJ (hit fields his position way better than KJ though), but if we are getting Peavy or Ludwig in return and letting Prado fill any of those holes……..we will not miss KJ nor Yunel that much…… Prado will do the job, he is capable. Mark my words, you will remember what im saying frequently in 2009.

By Anders

November 6, 2008 4:51 PM | Link to this

Efrim

It was a bad move from the Twins GM and everyone knew it at the time as well.

Agreed. And I think this is exactly what Towers is trying to avoid. Giving away an asset. That’s what I’ve been saying all week while DOB was extolling how Towers has to trade him and Peavy won’t go but to a couple of towns and the Braves won’t give any decent prospects etc..

The last part seems a distant memory. Couple days ago it seemed Peavy was coming to the Braves for next to nothing. Now many on here are resigned to Escobar and a good prospect or two.- Wow!

By Marty

November 6, 2008 4:54 PM | Link to this

Anders

Hey, I never said that I thought that Gomez was good, just that other people had it in his had that he was a potential 5-tool superstar. I will never understand why anyone wanted Humber at that point in his career, and the 4th guy you sent over to the Twins was a middling “prospect” at best. All of that said, it was still a trade for a one-year rental (at least as far as the Twins were concerned), while Peavy is much different. Your Mets had to pay through the nose to keep Santana beyond that first year, while we would not have to pay much at all to keep Peavy for 4-5 years. If you compare completely different situations, you’re going to get different results.

By Marty

November 6, 2008 4:57 PM | Link to this

One more thought re: Peavy vs. Santana trade — it’s disingenuous to say that Minaya wasn’t going to make that trade if there was any way he could. The blame goes on the Twins’ GM for overplaying his hand on a 1-year rental and having to settle for what he got. The Padres could easily hold on to Peavy and go through this whole charade again next offseason or even midseason this year, so Towers doesn’t necessarily have to contend with that. Plus, Towers may just do a better job at this than the Twins did in a similar situation. Regardless, suggesting that the Braves (or anyone) should be able to get Peavy for a package similar to what the Twins got for one year of Santana is just silly. If we somehow pull that off, great — and Towers would be an idiot for doing it — but it’s unlikely and unrealistic to expect.

By N8

November 6, 2008 4:58 PM | Link to this

“No rush here for Towers. Pitching is at a premium.”

In a perfect world. Yes. No rush for Towers. But allegedly ownership has demanded that they slash payroll in half. Nobody wants Spicoli, and Brian Giles turned down a trade to the Red Sox last year.

Where else are they gonna trim payroll?

Granted, Towers has until April to do it. But you get past January, and his suitors are gonna cut in half.

Surely the Braves and all of their prospects will have moved on by then. Especially if Smoltz and Glavine prove to be healthy (as healthy as 40+ pitchers can be).

Seems to me, if Towers is serious about not only moving Peavy, but getting the MOST for him that he can get, the time to act is NOW.

By skull

November 6, 2008 4:58 PM | Link to this

Don’t Trade Franceour

“It just seems to me that giving Penny $45 miillion over 4 years isn’t a bad idea if nothing comes of the Peavy dealings…”

You’re kidding………right?

Not only is his recovery still suspect but he’s considered to be a malcontent & not a team player! One of the reasons the Dodgers dumped him is that he couldn’t even get along with Torre.

If you can’t get along with a player’s mgr like Torre what makes anyone think he’ll get along with BC.

By BBFCFM

November 6, 2008 4:59 PM | Link to this

on the Penny comments

he is def. not worth 11 mil a year, especially when the dodgers declined an option for 8.75m. I guess with his buyout he could still be worth 11 mil for this year if someone paid him 9.25m. however, i would pass.

I also echo the sentiments of Anders on this one

By Lew

November 6, 2008 5:03 PM | Link to this

KC-Dude, love your optimism, but in the case of Smoltz, I wouldn’t go there.

Think 42 years old. Think just missed an entire season. Think five arm surgeries. Think that he himself admits he might not be back at all. Think not having a vague idea until December or later if he’s even capable of going again. Think relief work. Think several innings a week. Then be happy with what you have (if you have it at all).

No way you even speculate having him back in the rotation. There is absolutely no way you can even think of penciling him in at this point. Think dealing with filling the rotation without Smoltz, Glavine, Hampton or Hudson.

Reality Dude, reality. May not be all that optimistic, but I’m not sure there’s much there to support optimism. The Braves must plan for the worst case scenario. Any other course of action is foolish in the extreme-and Wren has stated as much.

By Joe M.

November 6, 2008 5:04 PM | Link to this

Doc Holliday - Kelly Johnson hit 39 doubles and 7 triples this year to go along with his 12 homers. I’m pretty sure that he had more doubles than any NL 2B not named Chase Utley. I really like Prado, but there’s just no empirical reason to believe that he will hit for nearly that kind of power. Prado never hit more than 25 doubles, 6 triples, or 5 homers in any minor-league season, and his career slugging percentage in the minors was a paltry .393. Kelly has slugged .440 in the majors and slugged .464 in the minors.

We need to get Doc Holliday and Bobby’s Cox in the Peavy trade talks. Maybe they could convince the Padres to take Martin Prado instead of someone actually good!

As for the Cubs getting Peavy, I don’t believe it. The Braves I believe, the Cardinals I believe, even the Dodgers I can somewhat believe. The Cubs have nothing but scrap. It’s a PR ploy like the Yankees and Red Sox to make the Cubs’ fans think the team is after everyone good when they’re really not.

Likely too is that the Padres are using the Cubs as useful idiots to drive up the Peavy price.

By McFann O

November 6, 2008 5:05 PM | Link to this

RC—

You’d think so…but his name’s not on the list, and he’s not mentioned in the article.

The catchers they have listed are Mauer, Tek, and A. J. Pierzynski. Seems these people get their tips from Clint Hurdle and Russell Martin…

I would be fine if he didn’t go…just kinda weird that they don’t even mention his name. Then again…no it’s not.

Oh, and that Nov. 13 date is listed under the American League…but there’s no date for the NL. And the Gold Gloves show the AL guys first, so either I got it backwards or they did. We’ll see next week, I guess.

By mbatl

November 6, 2008 5:06 PM | Link to this

*I am going to guess that third player is Jordan Schafer…. I still say Hell No. Make that third player Gorkys Hernandez. *

Efrim, I have a feeling that’s exactly what the hold-up may be. If the Braves have offered Esco, Schafer and Morton (and maybe an A-level pitcher), Towers would be out of his mind not to take that. That’s probably three starting players in 2009 and beyond.

I bet Wren is trying to sell him Gorkys (or some other prospect) instead of Schafer.

By BBFCFM

November 6, 2008 5:07 PM | Link to this

*9 mil

not 9.25

By Lew

November 6, 2008 5:11 PM | Link to this

Marty-Dude you make a good point. Comparing a pitcher with one year until Free Agency and a huge contract (and needing to negotiate long term immediately) is very different from a guy who is already signed for five years at below market money. It SHOULD bring a better package than Johan.

The Mets did however, steal Johan for next to nothing, though. Won’t happen with Peavy, but Towers better not make the same mistake the Twins did, or he might just end up with a package containing much less than Yunel.

By BBFCFM

November 6, 2008 5:12 PM | Link to this

well i also read they declined a club option for 9.25 million. in any event, i would rather buy 9.25 million lottery tickets than spend it on penny. or 8.75 million if you prefer. in fact, i need to talk to Wren. i’m thinkin lottery tix are the way to go in any event

By Mike

November 6, 2008 5:13 PM | Link to this

So many morons on here it’s scary. Do some of these people even follow baseball?

By Joe M.

November 6, 2008 5:13 PM | Link to this

Prado will do the job, he is capable. Mark my words, you will remember what im saying frequently in 2009.

Yeah, when Prado puts up another outstanding -3 (that’s NEGATIVE three) at second base on defense and hits .280/.320/.380. we’ll all sure forget about KJ and his +3 (that’s PLUS three) at 2B and his double-digit homeruns and fourth-in-the-NL-at-2B in OPS and plate discipline and speed and slugging and doubles or Escobar’s +20 on defense at SS and his power, OBP skills and whatnot. /sarcasm

Prado is no-doubt the worst of the three. And by a pretty good margin too.

By Bobby's Cox

November 6, 2008 5:15 PM | Link to this

DAP

Thanks for answering my question. I agree with your opinion to some extent. For those that think Nelson Cruz is a little inexperienced, I say Ludwick is just about the same, yet older. However, he’d be a great tradeoff for KJ. That’s one trade that makes sense for both teams.

Doc Holiday

Sounds like you’re saying Prado could be the fill in at short? I agree with you that he could fill in at 2nd and be a more consistent bat with higher avg, less HR, but similar doubles & triples numbers as KJ with more range at 2nd. But are you seriously thinking the Braves would plug him in at SS? I’m not sure there’s a bigger Prado fan on here than I, but not even I think he can patrol SS for 162.

By nitram odarp

November 6, 2008 5:16 PM | Link to this

ah hell where is DOB i need some new news instead of all of yall’s uneducated speculation. Get Peavy keep the untouchables, unfortunately i think it may be one more year before were back in the post season. peavy is the start i do believe.

By Bobby's Cox

November 6, 2008 5:16 PM | Link to this

DOB’s been quiet today.

I wonder if something’s going on.

By Robert

November 6, 2008 5:18 PM | Link to this

From Rotoworld

According to the Arizona Republic, the rumor going around the GM meetings this morning was Jake Peavy to the Braves for Yunel Escobar, Gorkys Hernandez and a young pitcher not named Tommy Hanson.

Presumably, Jair Jurrjens is also out. Julio Teheran is another long shot, leaving Jo-Jo Reyes, Jeff Locke and Kris Medlen among the possibilities. It doesn’t seem like enough of a return for Peavy, but there are still wildly differing opinions on Escobar. Some think he’s very capable of blossoming into an All-Star, while others see him as just an average regular. If the Padres got him, it would be with the intention of playing him at shortstop and trading Khalil Greene. They would have the option of stashing Escobar at second for a year, but that wouldn’t be part of the plan.

By Marty

November 6, 2008 5:20 PM | Link to this

Lew The Mets did however, steal Johan for next to nothing, though. Won’t happen with Peavy, but Towers better not make the same mistake the Twins did, or he might just end up with a package containing much less than Yunel.

Of everything you said there, I have no doubt.

By BBFCFM

November 6, 2008 5:22 PM | Link to this

i tell ya, I don’t even like the idea of trading out Schafer for Gorkys. they both seem to have mammoth potential. and frankly, i almost like Gorkys better. seems like he could be one of the absolute quickest guys to ever play the game…but then again who knows. I’ll reserve talks of ceilings for buildings, cars and outhouses

By Efrim

November 6, 2008 5:24 PM | Link to this

I saw that as well Robert.

http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/NickPiecoro/38442

Yunel Escobar, Gorkys Hernadez and a pitching prospect not named Hanson sounds good to me.

Gotta imagine they would want Charlie Morton or Jo Jo Reyes over Kris Medlen. Jeff Locke is a possibility, but he is at least 2 years away.

By Tomas

November 6, 2008 5:27 PM | Link to this

According to what i’ve read, the Braves will have to include Escobar or Hanson to get Peavy. And Hanson is untouchable. They have interest in Jeff Locke, and i’m guessing Charlie Morton as well, and a mid-level prospect.

It’s Escobar, Morton, Locke, and (Brandon Jones, Barbaro Cañizares, or the guy we got for Kotsay) for Jake Peavy. I’d do it.

Now what happens to the SS position. The FA is slim but there are some good candidates like Rafael Furcal, Edgar Renteria, David Eckstein, and Orlando Cabrera.

I love Renteria but let’s face it the guy is getting old, and doesn’t have a lot of range. Cabrera is only one year younger, and he is a leader although a bit problematic this year. Furcal is the best option but his back is an issue(remember Kotsay getting injured when he affirmed he was perfect in spring), and he may ask for a lot of money. Eckstein is okay, but he doesn’t have the arm strength to be a SS.

• I’d Sign Renteria for 2 yrs 15 million
• Furcal 3 yrs 26 million
• Orland Cabrera 3 yrs 24 million
• Eckstein 2 yrs 12 million.

If each one of them would accept those terms Furcal would be my favorite, then Renteria, then Cabrera, and last Eckstein.

By Marty

November 6, 2008 5:28 PM | Link to this

Bobby’s Cox - I’m pretty sure DOB’s quiet because he’s been on a plane or otherwise in transit most of the day.

By Bobby's Cox

November 6, 2008 5:28 PM | Link to this

Braveheart,

Nice 1:35 pm post today.

By Joe M.

November 6, 2008 5:30 PM | Link to this

“The Braves hope to fill their ace hole with Peavy,

DOB!

By clay

November 6, 2008 5:30 PM | Link to this

Who else would rather do the KJ for Ludwick over the Peavy deal? Could we not either sign two good FA pitchers or sign one and make a trade for one? I just dont like giving up that much for Peavy.

By cameron

November 6, 2008 5:36 PM | Link to this

It might be Locke, Olney posted earlier on MLBTradeRumors that the Padres are really liking Jeff Locke. So maybe the deal would be.. Yunel Escobar, Gorkys Hernandez, and Jeff Locke for Jake Peavy.

Sounds like a good deal to me, I hate losing Escobar but we need Jake Peavy. And it seems like we cant make anymore deals without making this one first.

By clay

November 6, 2008 5:36 PM | Link to this

Now if it is Esco, Jo Jo and Gorkys you gotta do that even though I hate giving up escobar but I would still wish we would do the Ludwick for KJ cause I believe Prado will do just as good as Kelly with his Defenese and avg. We would have to be able to find a shortstop but we could sign renteria or eckstein for cheap. Then still have 30 Mil to get another pitcher and whoever we get for shortstop. Also we would have the money for Hampton and Smoltzy and maybe Ohman.

By Lew

November 6, 2008 5:37 PM | Link to this

JoeM-Dude, I usually have some disagreements with your posts, but you’re right on with this one. Prado and Infante are GOOD bench players. They are not as good as starters. Take them off the bench and what do you do? Go back to Chris Woodward and Pete Orr? This would weaken not only your starting team, but your bench as well-HARDLY what the Braves need.

Time for people to realize that being a good fill in, able to play numerous positions is a necessity for a team-ON THE BENCH. If Yunel or KJ are gone, then we need to replace them with starters and leave our bench alone!!!!!

By Marty

November 6, 2008 5:43 PM | Link to this

clay - There are no FA pitchers who are anywhere near as good as Peavy, and I’m not aware of any other similar pitchers available by trade right now, either.

By cameron

November 6, 2008 5:44 PM | Link to this

In a post on MLBTradeRumors Buster Onley said the Padres were really liking Jeff Locke. So maybe the deal would be.. Yunel Escobar, Gorkys Hernandez, and Jeff Locke. If it is I think thats a great deal. While I dont want to lose Yunel Escobar, and even tho Brent Lillibridge didnt show any great signs last season, hes regarded as a high SS prospect. And we arnt giving up Heyward, Hanson or any of those top prospects.

By cabravesfan

November 6, 2008 5:47 PM | Link to this

Lew

Could not agree more with your 5:37…Prado and Infante are so valuable because they can fill in at so many different positions- that does not mean they can start for an entire season at any of them. Both are good at what they do- no doubt there- but like you said, taking them off the bench and putting either of them in the field on a daily basis weakens the lineup AND the bench

By Lew

November 6, 2008 5:47 PM | Link to this

Tomas-I think you’re the only one who considers Canizares worth mentioning. I would doubt he’s on ANYONE’S radar, Dude. If he were worth a damn, why didn’t we call him up last year when we dumped Tex and Kotchman went on bereavement leave, instead of putting Prado out of position? For that matter, half the games he played in were at DH. Kind of hard for him to play that position either in Atlanta OR San Diego.

Dude’s almost 30 and still in the minors. Not much chance of a productive ML career at this point.

By BravesFanInRockies

November 6, 2008 5:48 PM | Link to this

Escobar, Schafer and Locke might be what the Pads want (with perhaps another low-level pitching prospect).

Escobar, Gorkys, and Locke (plus the same prospect) might be what Wren is offering.

If that’s what’s holding up the deal, Wren should add Brandon Jones. That should do it.

By rammerjammer

November 6, 2008 5:48 PM | Link to this

I hope, somewhere in a gym, Lillibridge is working out.

By cameron

November 6, 2008 5:49 PM | Link to this

I have a question. If the Braves use Infante and Prado as starters, who do we have as bench players? If we use them as starters then wouldnt we have to spend some money and go get some help for the bench?

By Anders

November 6, 2008 5:49 PM | Link to this

Lew

The wife is gone two weeks. You pick her up at the airport this afternoon and your back on the blog already?

That’s not a good sign.

By BravesFanInRockies

November 6, 2008 5:51 PM | Link to this

clay,

Ludwick would be a sweet acquisition, but I’m for Peavy. There’s no guarantee you can sign two FA starters without overpaying for one or both. That means paying a lot more than you’d have to pay Peavy. And no one out there other than CC is better than Peavy.

You still have the money to sign or trade for a middle or back of the rotation guy and not have the 2008 season unravel if you fail to get him and have to settle for, say, Looper or Hampton or one of your minor leaguers.

By Joe M.

November 6, 2008 5:54 PM | Link to this

DOB’s been quiet today.

I wonder if something’s going on.

I think he is on his flight.

By Lew

November 6, 2008 5:56 PM | Link to this

Cameron-I’m one who has been somewhat conflicted with this potential Peavy deal. However, I would be pretty well willing to pull the trigger if it were Yunel, Gorkys and Locke as the package.

I’m not sure if Lillibridge would work as a replacement for Escobar. He might be a decent defensive substitute, but I have serious questions about his hitting. Maybe if we went and Rented Renteria for a year (I for one don’t see him as ready for the scrap heap only a year removed from a career season) and send Lillibridge for extensive sessions with McCann’s Daddy.

By cameron

November 6, 2008 5:57 PM | Link to this

sorry for the double posts up there, didnt think it sent the first time.

By Tomas

November 6, 2008 5:57 PM | Link to this

If the cardinals offered Ryan Ludwick for Kelly Johnson and Wren didn’t agree because he didn’t want to trade both Kelly and Yunel, he is stupid.

I don’t believe the Cardinals would have that stupid also. I believ that he can trade Kelly because of Prado and Infante, and if we fill the outfield, the only thing missing would be the SS position. Within the organization Lillibridge may be given the chance to prove himself. He runs terrificly, has demonstrated power, but not a lot of contact, with more playing time he’d solve that problem. He is also good defensively, not great but good. He has a good arm slightly above average and a good glove. He had a few errors with the team when he was given a chance to play but he did a good job defensively for richmond(i think).

If we don’t trade Kelly for Ludwick which I believe is purely a rumor and won’t happen, the Braves will have 30-35 million to spend. I’d sign Dempster(31 age) who is cheaper than Lowe, Aj Burnett, Ben Sheets, and CC, and is not injury prone. I saw he wants 5yrs 75 million(15 per season), Furcal 3 yrs 26 million( 8.7mil/per year (guess), and Pat Burrel 4 yrs 50 million(12.5mil/ per season).

If that happened great, but in the cases of Furcal and Burrell, I believe they may be asking more.

By Lew

November 6, 2008 6:00 PM | Link to this

Anders-She went to Vancouver, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Houston and central Pennsylvania (Franklin and Marshall, Dickinson) the last two weeks and is beat. Besides-she’s off tomorrow and didn’t even tell the Law School she’s back yet. Life is good. Three day weekend.

By Nate

November 6, 2008 6:01 PM | Link to this

The Padres need pitching. i can’t imagine them not wanting Morton in the deal.