AJC > Sports > Braves > Blog > Archives > 2008 > November > 02 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USWelcome to Peavy Auction, er, GM meetings
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
While recovering from an ear-pummeling night at the Drive-By Truckers show, figured we should file a fresh blog before the early morning flight Monday to California and the GM meetings, a.k.a. the Jake Peavy Auction.
In the immortal words of Tom Waits:
“Well I’m goin’ out west, where the wind blows tall
‘Cause Tony Franciosa used to date my ma”
Now where were we? Oh, Peavy.
I don’t know if a trade will be finalized for the Padres ace this week, but the groundwork could at least be laid as the Braves and other teams ramp up the Peavy negotiations with San Diego GM Kevin Towers.
Oh, while I’m thinking about it, I’d just like to say that if my hearing’s permanently damaged — we awoke this morning thinking it might be — I’m blaming Mike Cooley, as I was standing 15 feet in front of the Truckers guitarist during the concert at Tabernacle, third stop of their “Rock and Roll Means Well” tour with The Hold Steady.
Anyway, that’s the price a middle-ager pays for serious rock from close range.
But back to the GM meetings. Are you good people ready to finally get this offseason market open in earnest, to replace the same old rumors with new developments and actual negotiations? Something tells me you’re (at least) as eager as I am for that.
A warning: We might go four days without anything significant happening at the general managers’ gathering at a posh resort in Dana Point, Calif. These aren’t the Winter Meetings, after all.
That’s where the action really gets going, and that’s not for another month, out in Vegas (where there might be plenty of other action, too. What pagan picked Vegas?)
But there’s reason to pay attention this week, because Braves GM Frank Wren has shown in the past that he’s not shy about pulling the trigger on a deal if the opportunity presents itself. That could happen at any time.
It’s been quite a while since the Braves entered an offseason with as much money to spend (probably more than $40 million) or as many major needs to fill (two proven starting pitchers and a power-hitting outfielder).
So there has been, and will continue to be, a lot of interest and rumors involving the Braves’ push to fill those needs. But they’re also not going to be pressured into making a move quickly out of panic or just to satisfy skeptics.
“We’re prepared to move on something if the opportunity is there,” Wren said when I talked to him Saturday, before he and top assistants headed to Southern California. “I still think people are going to be, to some degree, looking at free-agent market and how that develops, and that’s still a couple weeks away.”
Plenty of teams will be patient and see how the market begins to shape up, and which free agents are offered arbitration by their current teams before a Dec. 1 deadline to do so. By waiting until then to sign some players who aren’t offered arbitration, a team can sometimes avoid giving up a compensatory draft pick.
If a free agent isn’t offered arbitration by his current team, that team doesn’t get compensation, regardless of the free agent’s ranking.
“It’s all part of it,” Wren said of offseason process. “We’ve got some ideas of what we can do and what we want to do, but until we get in that market we won’t know exactly. But we’re prepared. If a trade presents itself in the next seven to 10 days, we’re prepared to make a deal.”
Speaking of free-agent rankings, in case you missed it when I posted the blog comment Saturday regarding Will Ohman: His end-of-season slump dropped him from would-be Class B status, meaning the Braves won’t get compensation if another team signs the lefty reliever.
“We would have liked to have had a draft pick for him, if we don’t re-sign him,” said Wren, who at the July 31 trade deadline said the Braves held onto Ohman in large part because they didn’t get any offers they deemed good enough to forgo a draft pick they might get for Ohman if they lost him as a free agent.
Wren told me Saturday the Braves have interest in re-signing Ohman, as well as their other key free agents, John Smoltz and Greg Norton.
The Smoltz matter has been covered at length here and elsewhere. But just to reiterate: Wren and the Braves plan to wait until later this winter, perhaps not until January, to see if the 41-year-old pitcher, recovering from shoulder surgery, has a better idea whether he’ll be able to pitch next season.
The Braves might also have to wait to see where the market goes for Ohman and other lefties before knowing if they can/will make a competitive offer for the reliever, who has indicated a desire to return if there’s a good offer.
As for Norton, Wren said he’s talked to the veteran pinch-hitter’s agent a couple of times. Sounds to me like that could be a deal that gets done and perhaps relatively quickly, though that’s merely my gut feeling.
In the meantime, the Braves won’t put all eggs in one proverbial basket regarding Peavy, the 2007 Cy Young Award winner who’s under contract for four more years, or five if an option is exercised in 2012 (he’s owed $63 million over four years if that option isn’t exercised, $81 mill over five if it is).
They want him badly, but talks have been at a standstill for more than a week as the Braves have refused to include top prospects including pitcher Tommy Hanson and outfielder Jason Heyward in the multi-prospect/player package the Padres want for a 27-year-old who is a top-tier pitcher by any reasonable standard.
Peavy’s a bonafide ace, an Alabama native who loves the South and grew up a Braves fan and has indicated he’d waive his no-trade clause to come to Atlanta. His only resume blemish: DL stints for elbow soreness — one this season — and an unorthodox delivery that some have described as “violent” and have speculated will make him more prone to major injury.
Regardless, at least a handful of NL teams that Peavy might agree to be traded to have expressed interest, and the Padres were expected to talk this weekend to the Cubs, Brewers and Cardinals to gauge what they might part with to get him.
The Peavy rumors will undoubtedly pick up this week when the GMs convene in Dana Point, which is on the Pacific between Los Angeles and San Diego (by the way, Dana Point is where Peavy mentor Greg Maddux has a home).
Wren will not even acknowledge Peavy discussions, much less provide updates on where the sensitive talks have progressed. But he did say the Braves are approaching the task of filling their offseason needs on many fronts, not focusing all their attention on any one potential blockbuster trade.
“You’ve got to have your plan in place overall,” he said, “which is what we’ve tried to do. We’ve got a good sense of what we want to do.”
He won’t name names, but that could mean if the Peavy deal falls through, the Braves focus even more attention on free agents such as Derek Lowe and A.J. Burnett, whose price tags are likely to surpass the average amount owed to Peavy over the next four seasons, but wouldn’t cost the Braves prospects in a trade.
They could use those prospects they are willing to trade in a deal or deals for a No. 2- or No. 3-type starter and to fill that outfield need, which could become an even bigger priority if the Braves don’t fortify their rotation as well as they hope to through trades or free agency.
So many ways this could go, but keep in mind that some outfielders we might not know about yet could become available in trade when GMs start hashing things out this week over meetings, drinks, rounds of golf, etc.
So, what should we expect out of these meetings?
Wren: “It’s hard to say. I think it could be that a lot happens, or it could be somewhat uneventful. I think a lot of people are ready for something to happen.”
Hanson, Flowers hot in desert: Wren plans to stop off in Arizona on the way back from California next week to see how a few Braves prospects are doing in the Fall League.
Of particular interest will be the aforementioned Tommy Hanson, who’s scheduled to pitch Nov. 6 with Wren and other Braves officials in attendance. Hanson is 3-0 in four starts and has yet to allow a run in 13-2/3 innings, with 19 strikeouts and only three walks and four hits allowed.
The 22-year-old right-hander is continuing the stunning progress he made this year at high-A Myrtle Beach and Double-A Mississippi, where he threw a no-hitter with 14 strikeouts.
“He’s doing very well,” Wren said. “This whole season has been pretty amazing for him.”
Hanson finished the minor league season 11-5 with a 2.41 ERA and 163 strikeouts in 138 innings, and his .175 opponents’ average that led all minor league starters.
Hanson, Flowers and other Braves prospects are playing for the Mesa Solar Sox and manager Rocket Wheeler, who also happens to be the Myrtle Beach manager.
Hanson is doing a blog on his experiences out there. Here’s the most recent entry I could find. Get on their and tell the young man how much you’re looking forward to seeing him pitch for the Braves — or for the Padres (just kidding).
It’s at http://aflbraves.mlblogs.com/
There’s also a link there to “guest blogger” Tyler Flowers’ entry, with a photo of the burly Marietta native.
Speaking of Flowers, he’s absolutely bashing out west. The big boy from the Atlanta ‘burbs, who put on power-hitting displays in major league spring training with the Braves a year ago, is crushing long balls and everything else in Arizona.
The 6-4, 250-pound catcher/first baseman was tied for the AFL league lead with six homers in 12 games before Sunday while hitting a robust .419 (18-for-43) with a .510 OBP and league-best marks in slugging percentage (1.023) and OPS (1.533). Those aren’t typos. He’s going nuts out there.
Twelve of his 18 hits have been for extra bases, including four doubles and two triples (how that big dude has two triples, I’m having a hard time imagining).
Wren also noted the AFL work of Stephen Marek, who’s allowed five hits, no walks and no earned runs in seven innings over seven relief appearances. The hard-throwing right-hander came from the Angels as the largely overlooked part of the Mark Teixeira trade, and it sounds like Marek will compete for a spot in the Braves’ opening day bullpen.
Get to know your doctor: Dr. James Andrews isn’t on the Braves’ payroll. It just seems like he is after a season in which he operated on pitchers John Smoltz, Tim Hudson, Tom Glavine, Rafael Soriano, Peter Moylan, Chuck James … am I forgetting anyone?
Anyway, I thought the denizens might be interested in this story about Andrews that appeared in a trade mag, Fast Company. Here’s the link
Quite a twin bill: The Hold Steady turned in an impressive 90-minute set to open last night’s show, ignoring an early start (just after 7:30 p.m.) and the still-arriving crowd. It’s an outstanding band, if you haven’t heard ‘em, and the Stay Positive CD is one of my favorites this year.
As for the Truckers … well, do they ever disappoint? How can a band lose someone as talented as Jason Isbell and seemingly not miss a beat? Their live shows are, as always, blistering, raging rock-n-roll experiences, and this was certainly no exception.
They ripped it up for just over two hours, and the encore included a sublime, pile-driving, five-guitar cover of Neil Young’s Rockin’ In the Free World, with most of The Hold Steady joining the Truckers for an all-hands-on-deck tour de force that I’m sure they’ll reprise at most stops on this tour.
If you go, don’t dare leave until the end.
”SINK HOLE” by Drive-By Truckers
I’ve always been a religious man, I ‘ve always been a religious man
but I met the banker and it felt like sin, he turned my bailout down
The Banker Man, he let into me, let into me, let into me
The Banker Man, he let into me and spread my name around
He thinks I ain’t got a lick of sense cause I talk slow and my money’s spent
Now, I ain’t the type to hold it against, but he better stay off my farm
Cause it was my Daddy’s and his Daddy’s before
and his Daddy’s before and his Daddy’s before
Five generations and an unlocked door and a loaded burglar alarm.
Lots of pictures of my purdy family, lots of pictures of my purdy family
lots of pictures of my purdy family in the house where I was born.
House has stood through five tornadoes,
Droughts, floods, and five tornadoes.
I’d rather wrastle an alligator than to face the Banker’s scorn
Cause he won’t even look me in the eye
He just takes my land and apologize,
with pen, paper, and a friendly smile, he says the deed is done.
The sound you hear is my Daddy spinning, The sound you hear is my Daddy spinning
The sound you hear is my Daddy spinning over what the Banker done.
Like to invite him for some pot roast beef and mashed potatoes and sweet tea
follow it up with some banana pudding and a walk around the farm
Show him the view from McGee Town Hill
Let him stand in my shoes and see how it feels
to lose the last thing on earth that’s real
I’d rather lose my legs and arms
Bury his body in the old sink hole. Bury his body in the old sink hole
Bury his body in the old sink hole under cold November sky
Then damned if I wouldn’t go to church on Sunday
Damned if I wouldn’t go to church on Sunday
Damned if I wouldn’t go to church on Sunday
and look the Preacher in the eye.
Comments
By N Nine
November 2, 2008 4:25 PM | Link to this
Nice New Blog! I guess you heard Brian
By StingerSplash
November 2, 2008 4:27 PM | Link to this
Damn. Was in Atlanta last night and considered going to the DBT/Hold Steady show, but stayed in the bar to watch Texas-Texas Tech.
By David O'Brien
November 2, 2008 4:50 PM | Link to this
By the way, the GM meetings are being held at the St. Regis Monarch? Ring a bell? it was the site of the recent infamous retreat for AIG executives AFTER the government bailout.
By N Nine
November 2, 2008 4:52 PM | Link to this
You guys see that Link DOB provided? Tyler Flower is HUGE!! Look like a future slugger. Should we sell him with this current hot tear? He might only improve his stock…..
By Deep Throat
November 2, 2008 5:06 PM | Link to this
Good to see Wren is bringing us down easy on the Peavy thing. The reality remains the same: Peavy can’t be had for a second-rate package; Hanson or Heyward must be included and the Braves are not doing that. It is time to move on mentally.
By Steve from OH
November 2, 2008 5:06 PM | Link to this
Coach, I see your boy Ryan Dempster is going to test the FA market before re-signing with the Cubs…maybe FW will attempto sign him.
By Yars
November 2, 2008 5:07 PM | Link to this
Hanson has to be untouchable. A lot of teams want Peavy. Wren won’t give up our prized farm prospects. Hell, I hope he doesn’t give up KJ. Getting AJ Burnett is taking a gamble, with his history of injuries. Lowe will put up better numbers in NL than AL. We shall see how the winter unfolds. now playing: everyday is like sunday by morrissey.
By Brian
November 2, 2008 5:11 PM | Link to this
N Nine- Nah, he probably decided to go ahead and post his blog because he figured, like most people, that it’s getting lonely when people are arguing over Braden Looper! Or VORPing at each other.
If Flowers is a power hitting catcher, he might be in the center of a trade-Ordonez, maybe?
By DAP
November 2, 2008 5:22 PM | Link to this
im so glad wren is sticking to his guns regarding peavy. if a deal cant get done, we can use the prospects on other peices. we need several!
i have a feeling that the asking price for peavy might come down a little, but even if we dont get him, there are alot of guys wren could get to really help this team.
By Efrim
November 2, 2008 5:30 PM | Link to this
I like the idea of signing AJ Burnett or Derek Lowe and trading for a 2/3 starter(lesser prospect package) than dealing a larger prospect/young plyaer package for Jake Peavy.
If we make that deal for Peavy, then are we going to sign a free agent starter and a free agent OF? I have a feeling the Braves aren’t wowed by any FA OF. So, if the Braves deal a large prospect package for Peavy, than you’d certainly be less inclined to trade more prospects to fill the remaining holes, right?
By Deep Throat
November 2, 2008 5:31 PM | Link to this
I’d be weary of Dempster. He is not going to repeat what he did this past season in 2009.
By Lew
November 2, 2008 5:47 PM | Link to this
Efrim-I like the idea of Lowe and trading for Javier Vasquez (and maybe work the deal for Swisher, too). The bullpen would fall down on their collective knees and give thanks for the time off they would see in 09.
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 2, 2008 5:54 PM | Link to this
Thanks for the new Blog, Chief!
I hope the Braves re-sign Ohman and Norton! Norton’s the kind of pinch-hitter that I’ve always wanted the Braves to have…or at least he seems to be.
By Efrim
November 2, 2008 6:00 PM | Link to this
Lew
I like Vasquez a lot. I think people fail to realize that the guy has pitched half of his starts in great hitters parks the last several years(Arizona and Chicago). Even so, his numbers ain’t too shabby. I wonder what it would cost though. I think Kenny Williams would probably ask for Kelly Johnson back. They are moving Alexi Ramirez to SS, so they need a 2nd baseman. Maybe offering Prado and 2-3 prospects would be enough, although I doubt the White Sox value Martin as much as the Braves do. But anyway, that plan sounds pretty good to me.
I like Swisher a lot more than most people do, and I expect a bounce back year from him regardless of what team he plays on.
By N Nine
November 2, 2008 6:03 PM | Link to this
Yars Sure many teams want Peavy. Peavy has put a lockdown on that(for the Braves!). Things have stalled for a bit.
DOB, your new blog has got me all geared up again! THX …must blog all day
Yes, Hanson is among the few untouchables. Hanson is beyond ridiculous at this point. LoL. Jurrjens and Hanson are set for the future.
Exciting two indeed.
By Grizzled Veteran
November 2, 2008 6:03 PM | Link to this
DOB,we keep hearing a couple of things from Marlins. #1 They feel their greatest need is improved defense, especially up the middle and #2 Hanley Ramirez is untouchable. My question is, do you think the Braves could tempt them with Escobar (good defense, cuban), one of the young center fielders (good defense, lead-off hitter), and a prospect for Ramirez? If so, would the Braves be interested in such a deal?
By BravesFanInRockies
November 2, 2008 6:15 PM | Link to this
McFann,
Agreed on Norton and Ohman. Especially Norton. He and Dobbs may have been the NL’s best pinch hitters last year. And the Braves should still be kicking themselves for letting Darryl Ward get away a couple of years ago. Get Norton signed.
Swisher was part of the Moneyball Draft of 2002 for the A’s, along with Mark Teahen and Joe Blanton and others. I think he’s worth checking out, along (certainly) with Vasquez.
Swisher’s 24 — Francouer’s age — but pencils out to be a much different and better player, more power, exceptional plate discipline. Because of his age I’d much rather get him than Jermaine Dye, but would not object to JD if he’s the best/only bat available at a reasonable price.
And Efrim, you’re right, Williams would probably want KJ or Schafer in such a deal.
By BravesFanInRockies
November 2, 2008 6:16 PM | Link to this
Also, Vasquez + Dempster + a legitimate power bat for the OF would signal a successful offseason IMO.
By N Nine
November 2, 2008 6:19 PM | Link to this
McFann
Agree on Norton.The guy has an uncanny knack for hitting at right times.
Speaking of Ohman, How many Bullpen guys does Bobby Cox keep during a season?
we have many to plug in already in (no order) 1.Acosta 2.Bennett 3.Boyer 4.Gonzalez 5.Carlyle 6.Stockman. 7.Has to be a spot for Smoltz 8. Maybe Morton?9. Soriano when ready..we have options but need Ohman too!
Possibles Knocking : Lerew,Ridgeway,Parr,c. James. Need Francisley Bueno for a Phillies series, If you know what i mean..hehe
Julio, Tavares, and Ohman filed FA
By David O'Brien
November 2, 2008 6:31 PM | Link to this
Grizzled veteran, the Braves have identified a power-hitting OF and two proven starting pitchers as their offseason priorities. So I don’t see any likelihood in them suddenly changing course and trading one of their most sought-after players (Escobar) in order to upgrade at SS.
By Moby Grape
November 2, 2008 6:35 PM | Link to this
They also kept Phillip Hughes instead of trading him for Johan Santana, something they greatly regret now. Opps. Plus they’ve had more success this past decade than the Rays.Joe
yep, it also took them(the Rays) 10 tears and hundreds of failed draft choices to get their year in the sun. no team can succeed on nothing but its own farm system prospects. the Braves already have about as many home-raised players as any other club and all it got them is three years of mediocrity, and they do not have the internal replacements right now that they need to take another run at the tiop.
By keylargo
November 2, 2008 6:44 PM | Link to this
DOB
Didn’t you omit Tom Glavine from the Braves pitchers that Dr. Andrews operated on this past year?
By kdbanks
November 2, 2008 6:45 PM | Link to this
Have fun DOB…
one question - did you mean prospects here and not draft picks?
DOB said: “He won’t name names, but that could mean if the Peavy deal falls through, the Braves focus even more attention on free agents such as Derek Lowe and A.J. Burnett, whose price tags are likely to surpass the average amount owed to Peavy over the next four seasons, but wouldn’t cost the Braves draft picks in a trade.”
By Atown
November 2, 2008 6:46 PM | Link to this
DOB, thanks for the summary of the DBT show as well as the lyrics. They never disappoint. I know the ear-ringing feeling having stood 3 feet in front of Cooley (and the speakers) at the Fourty Watt few yrs back.
Re: Peavy…getting him is the shot in the arm that we need. Bonafide ace at bargain price for 4/5 yrs. We know he’ll fit in the clubhouse well, too.
By keylargo
November 2, 2008 6:59 PM | Link to this
No, I am not posting under the name of Grizzled Veteran, but I do think he is brilliant.
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 2, 2008 7:05 PM | Link to this
BravesFanInRockies—
Norton and Dobbs were definitely the league’s best PH’ers. Dobb’s only problem was that he played for the Fillies (he also gave Brayan Pena a concussion in 2007, but that’s beside the point.
I was really upset that they got rid of Ward, too.
N Nine The guy has an uncanny knack for hitting at right times.
He sure does. I remember when we first got him, his first two AB were huge. He went through a little slump when he was playing everyday, but as a pinch-hitter he ruled!
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 2, 2008 7:09 PM | Link to this
mbatl—
Don’t know if you’re around right now, but I just wanted to say sorry for not seeing your Q last night about counting down the days until Spring Training! I read the rest of your post, yet somehow missed that part.
104 days left until pitchers and catchers report!! Whoo-hoo! It’s getting closer…I cann feel it…
Right now, I’m really ready for Friday…that is, if they are gonna announce the Silver Slugger winners that day.
By cw
November 2, 2008 7:11 PM | Link to this
DOB didnt Andrews also work on Glavine.
By Wayne
November 2, 2008 7:12 PM | Link to this
Grizzled Vet and Keylargo
A thought or two about Hanley Ramirez. I can only see that happening if Ramirez moved to CF. He is not a very good defensive SS. That would help us in the outfield, but we would still need a LF’er.
By keylargo
November 2, 2008 7:33 PM | Link to this
Wayne
I spent the 2007 spring training season working in West Palm Beach. The Marlins trained just half hour away from me and I saw enough of Hanley Ramirez to be a lifelong fan.
Anyone who thinks that he can not play shortstop must have read it because when you see him play SS you know you are witnessing a future Hall of Fame player.
He is BIG. 6’ 3” and the kind of frame that could carry 250 lbs. But he is about 215 and is a stud. Like I said, if you see him in person you know. He is YOUNGER than Escobar, faster than Escobar, more power than Escobar, and most importantly to me, he is popular among his teammates and will never cause problems with his attitude. That is what scares me with Escobar. He just seems to be waiting for some reason to blow up at the world.
It has been in my mind to trade for Hanley since that spring and especially after Edgar Renteria was traded. Maybe it was like Andruw Jones coming up as a kid and blooming into a superstar.
By Billy Walsh
November 2, 2008 7:35 PM | Link to this
Is it me, or did Texas Tech try really hard to lose that game last night. I cant see Tech going undefeated (Sooners will pick them off). How good is the Big 12. DOB, put Kansas in the ACC or the Big East and they are probably in the top 10 right now. If I had to guess, Penn State against USC in the national championship game. Cant see Bama remaining undefeated either. Penn State has a legit shot at running the table. Though USC will crush them if they are motivated to play. Sorry for the football tangent. Since Dempster has made it known that he wants to test the FA market, I hope the Braves get involved. He would be a nice addition.
By nolie
November 2, 2008 7:49 PM | Link to this
Anyone who thinks that he can not play shortstop must have read it because when you see him play SS you know you are witnessing a future Hall of Fame playerkeylargo
I’ve watched him play dozens of times and he ain’t all that good a defensive SS. He isn’t as terrible as some say, but he is nowhere near Escobar or Rollins or Hardy or even an aged Vizquel.
By keylargo
November 2, 2008 8:05 PM | Link to this
Nolie, there is a big difference seeing someone play a game and watching them go through individual workouts and infield practice. If you have seen those workouts dozens of times, then you have just as valid of an opinion as I do. I spent parts of almost every day for a couple of months in Jupiter and I have seen what he is and he will be a great, not good, SS.
Ramirez is just a big man and might not look as quick and graceful as the players you mentioned, none of which have hit 30 HR’s or stolen 50 bases in a season as Ramirez has.
By David O'Brien
November 2, 2008 8:10 PM | Link to this
CW, yes. Don’t know how I left out Glavine.
Oh, and Hanley Ramirez is great because of his bat, not his defense, which is uneven. Could become a very good defensive player, but still has too many lapses, at least at this stage.
By David O'Brien
November 2, 2008 8:13 PM | Link to this
kdbanks, yes. change has been made. Must have had draft picks on the brain, because I was reading something in BA today about how the Royals joined the Red Sox as the only teams to spend $10 mill on the draft.
By MizzouBravesFan
November 2, 2008 8:24 PM | Link to this
Pretty clear to me that this is the week in which we’ll find out whether the Braves are serious bidders for Peavy or not.
I’m wondering if Wren is going to be aggressive, make a serious offer, and try to close a deal OR just gauge what it might take and wait it out even longer, maybe closer to the Winter Meetings.
I think the time to strike is now, a trade now makes perfect sense before FA starts and teams start to miss out on SP targets or lose pitchers of their own.
It should def. be interesting.
By BravesFanInRockies
November 2, 2008 8:30 PM | Link to this
keylargo,
FWIW, the Fielding Bible places Hanley Ramirez as the second worst +/- SS in baseball from 2006-08. To his credit, he wasn’t one of the six worst in 2008 alone. (Frenchy was the 6th worst RF in +/- this year; he ranked 7th best in 2007.)
BTW, in +/- Casey Kotchman ranked as the 6th best 1B (Tex was by far the best) and Chipper! was the 10th best 3B.
Here’s how the panel judges plus/minus:
“A player gets credit (a “plus” number) if he makes a play that at least one other player at his position missed during the season, and he loses credit (a “minus” number) if he misses a play that at least one player made. The size of the credit is directly related to how often players make the play.”
If I read the intro correctly, they review every play during the season, so this is based on a detailed evaluations.
Ranked on overall play, Kotchman ranked 3rd below Pujols and Tex. Yunel was also 3rd behind Rollins and JJ Hardy, Dan Uggla actually was evaulated as a better 2B than KJ. Ouch, baby.
By BravesFanInRockies
November 2, 2008 8:35 PM | Link to this
BTW, Hanley’s future may be in the OF. Just like Soriano. Don’t know if he has the instincts to play CF, but he won’t see as many plays in the OF as he does at SS. And he won’t have to worry about potential injuries on double plays.
Hanley is a special hitter.
By 18 Wheels of Love
November 2, 2008 8:39 PM | Link to this
DOB, the OF’er that Wren has ID’d….is it a FA or a trade?
By keylargo
November 2, 2008 8:46 PM | Link to this
What do you guys think, that this is the NFL? These guys play defense AND offense!!! You don’t break down and judge an all defensive and all offensive team. It is a PACKAGE DEAL! You can give me all the BS you want that Escobar got to a ball that Ramirez would not have and a guy gets a single. He makes up for it when he hits 34 HR’s like he did this year and steals 51 bases like he did twice in his career.
Hanley Ramirez is a better offensive player than anyone the Braves have. He might not be the best defensive guy in the league but he comes to bat 5 times a game, hits for average, power, steals bases and has his head on straight.
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 2, 2008 8:51 PM | Link to this
DOB Oh, and Hanley Ramirez is great because of his bat, not his defense, which is uneven.
Hmm…sounds like this one player we have…great with the bat, still a work in progress with the D…
By caballo muerto
November 2, 2008 9:33 PM | Link to this
Dave, I think it’s hilarious you still blast your ears going to concerts. Nothing like a deaf hipster. Crank it up dude!
By richbrave
November 2, 2008 9:35 PM | Link to this
Since W. OHMAN is at hand, and has proven his worth to this club, the BRAVES should place him first on the list of steps necessary toward the completion of a successful rebuild of the BRAVES. NORTON should follow, and SMOLTZ later when he’s more certain of his future value to the BRAVES. These steps should be taken now even as events are unfolding on the starting pitching front.
By keylargo
November 2, 2008 9:46 PM | Link to this
ALL RIGHT!! I must have convinced Wayne, Nolie and BravesfaninRockies about Hanley Ramirez.
And where is that GrizzledVeteran when you need him?
All kidding aside, I think Escobar is a great defensive SS and an above average hitter. Where I think he might fail, if he does at all, is from the neck up. I’m just not sure he is ML there.
By BravesFanInRockies
November 2, 2008 9:56 PM | Link to this
keylargo,
You’re right. It’s not the NFL. And in baseball, it’s much easier to find good glove men than productive hitters. It’s also true that a plus offensive player at a difficult defensive position (SS, C, CF) is very valuable indeed.
Would I swap Escobar for Hanley straight up? Absolutely. I’d probably throw in a prospect, too, maybe a good one.
But I think Hanley will cost you some runs at SS that Yunel would not. So if I were getting Hanley I’d figure he’d eventually be playing another position. I’d try to find ANOTHER player or players to trade, keep Yunel at short and move Hanley to the OF.
By aGhostToMost
November 2, 2008 10:02 PM | Link to this
Heck ya - the truckers were all rock as usual Saturday night! Cooley!!!!! Missed The Hold Steady though - didn’t think they would be on right after doors…
By DAP
November 2, 2008 10:23 PM | Link to this
bravesfaninrockies
i agree with your feelings on swisher, except that he is 27 right now, not 24, the same age as francouer. swisher is an awesome role player, but right now, he isnt the lineup changer we really need. if we got swisher we couldnt stop there. we would need one more bat, i think.
By BravesFanInRockies
November 2, 2008 10:29 PM | Link to this
DAP,
My bad on Swisher’s age. Good catch.
By Grizzled Veteran
November 2, 2008 10:36 PM | Link to this
Keylargo - and others. I’m with you on Ramirez. Braves need both speed and power. Ramirez brings both and he looks like a great prospect to play third - in say three or four years. I also have observed his defense; he’ll make a great play and then boot a routine grounder. (which is what is driving the Marlins crazy) Maybe actually playing in front of people would help his concentration there. The question remains: Would the Marlins even consider trading him and at what cost.
By N Nine
November 2, 2008 10:53 PM | Link to this
Just last year, Marlins did a rare thing and threw money at Ramirez for many years. The owner has a special love for him and will not be traded. Yunel is just fine and dandy unless he gets traded.
Swisher same age as Frenchy? Seems like Swisher has done more even with his off year…? I agree he will improve on his bad year. Could be a nice addition.
By David O'Brien
November 2, 2008 10:59 PM | Link to this
18 Wheels: From what I understand, there are quite a few OF options the Braves are ready to explore, some via trade and some free agents.
All this stuff is interconnected to a degree, meaning that if the Braves spend more or less than they’d hoped in one area, it would affect what they do in another area.
And if they trade a bunch of prospects to fill one need, it could obviously limit their ability to trade in other areas, making free agency perhaps a more viable option if they are to get a quality player for that other need or needs.
By David O'Brien
November 2, 2008 11:01 PM | Link to this
aGhostToMost, I’ve never seen an act go on that early at Tabernacle. I got there at 7:45 and they were already playing. Fortunately, they played a full set, and plenty of crowd was already in the place by 8 p.m., so it wasn’t like Hold Steady played to a half-empty hall. That band was solid.
By Bluevsu
November 2, 2008 11:10 PM | Link to this
Hey DOB, what do you think about this…
For the Peavy trade… I have heard that the Padres want two pitchers, an outfielder, and a middle infielder (because they are trying to get rid of Khalil Greene’s salary and might include him in the deal). Having the untouchables and nearly untouchables in mind, trade Cole Rohrbough, Kris Medlen, Gregor Blanco or Brandon Jones, and Kelly Johnson for Peavy. If we get Khalil Greene, release him imediately…I don’t want to pay his $11 mill salary. Then, I would play Infante at second, and platoon Prado and Kotchman at first until we could bring up Freddie Freeman. By the way though, I don’t know what the big deal is about Hanson…yeah he is good in the minors but so were Macay Mcride, Kyle Davies, Joey Devine, Boyer, James, Reyes, Lerew, Bennett, Stockman, Ridgeway, Morton (showed promise but posted a record of like 3-8)…and I could go on, what is going to be different about him?
For the 2/3 starter… I know you said that FW was eyeing either Lowe or Burnett, but I think Garland from the Angels would be cheaper and just as good.
For the need of power and an outfielder… I have read several articles that Magglio Ordonez is close to being a Brave, but I would like to see us at least make an offer for Matt Holiday. Something with Diaz (because I don’t think anybody thinks he can be a starter for the Braves), or Blanco/B. Jones, and prospects…even though I think Holiday would have a hefty pricetag on him. That way we could have a definite clean-up hitter behind Chipper because I have read several blogs where people were saying that McCann doesn’t have enough power to be a clean-up hitter and protect Chipper, even though McCann lead the team in homers and RBI last year. Raul Ibanez might be a cheaper alternative. Just a wild thought…we could move Chipper back to left, let Infante play third and Prado play second just for kicks…
Other Stuff… I would let Josh Anderson play everyday in center because he would give us speed and the prototypical lead-off man that we desperately need. I would bring up Tyler Flowers ASAP! I know he is young, but we need a back up catcher that is not an automatic out, and who better to groom him than McCann…I like Corky Miller, but…umm…yeah…and Clint Sammons didn’t do much better last year. I would also drop Hampton like a hot potato, and resign Ohman, Julio, Smoltz, and Norton.
With all this done… line-up Anderson CF Escobar SS C. Jones 3B Holiday? LF McCann C Infante 2B Francoeur RF (assuming no broken funk) Prado/Kotchman 1B
Starters Peavy Jurrjens Garland Glavine Campillo
Bullpen Julio, Carlyle, Ohman, Gonzalez, Moylan, Soriano, Smoltz (closer)
Thoughts, criticisms, rebuttals, and praises (just maybe?)are accepted and appreciated.
By Bluevsu
November 2, 2008 11:12 PM | Link to this
Hey DOB, what do you think about this…
For the Peavy trade… I have heard that the Padres want two pitchers, an outfielder, and a middle infielder (because they are trying to get rid of Khalil Greene’s salary and might include him in the deal). Having the untouchables and nearly untouchables in mind, trade Cole Rohrbough, Kris Medlen, Gregor Blanco or Brandon Jones, and Kelly Johnson for Peavy. If we get Khalil Greene, release him imediately…I don’t want to pay his $11 mill salary. Then, I would play Infante at second, and platoon Prado and Kotchman at first until we could bring up Freddie Freeman. By the way though, I don’t know what the big deal is about Hanson…yeah he is good in the minors but so were Macay Mcride, Kyle Davies, Joey Devine, Boyer, James, Reyes, Lerew, Bennett, Stockman, Ridgeway, Morton (showed promise but posted a record of like 3-8)…and I could go on, what is going to be different about him?
For the 2/3 starter… I know you said that FW was eyeing either Lowe or Burnett, but I think Garland from the Angels would be cheaper and just as good.
For the need of power and an outfielder… I have read several articles that Magglio Ordonez is close to being a Brave, but I would like to see us at least make an offer for Matt Holiday. Something with Diaz (because I don’t think anybody thinks he can be a starter for the Braves), or Blanco/B. Jones, and prospects…even though I think Holiday would have a hefty pricetag on him. That way we could have a definite clean-up hitter behind Chipper because I have read several blogs where people were saying that McCann doesn’t have enough power to be a clean-up hitter and protect Chipper, even though McCann lead the team in homers and RBI last year. Raul Ibanez might be a cheaper alternative. Just a wild thought…we could move Chipper back to left, let Infante play third and Prado play second just for kicks…
Other Stuff… I would let Josh Anderson play everyday in center because he would give us speed and the prototypical lead-off man that we desperately need. I would bring up Tyler Flowers ASAP! I know he is young, but we need a back up catcher that is not an automatic out, and who better to groom him than McCann…I like Corky Miller, but…umm…yeah…and Clint Sammons didn’t do much better last year. I would also drop Hampton like a hot potato, and resign Ohman, Julio, Smoltz, and Norton.
With all this done… line-up Anderson CF Escobar SS C. Jones 3B Holiday? LF McCann C Infante 2B Francoeur RF (assuming no broken funk) Prado/Kotchman 1B
Starters Peavy Jurrjens Garland Glavine Campillo
Bullpen Julio, Carlyle, Ohman, Gonzalez, Moylan, Soriano, Smoltz (closer)
Thoughts, criticisms, rebuttals, and praises (just maybe?)are accepted and appreciated.
By wiki
November 2, 2008 11:17 PM | Link to this
DOB: I have to be out in Vegas the week of the winter meetings for business, in fact I’m staying at the Hilton there. Just curious, is there anything that goes on with the meetings that is open to the general public? Seems like I heard there was a trade show?
By mitchie-san
November 2, 2008 11:22 PM | Link to this
I dont care is Hanley is the worst defensive player in the league, he will make up for it with everything else he does. It doesnt matter anyway, he aint going anywhere……
By DHD
November 2, 2008 11:23 PM | Link to this
Trade for Peavy, sign Lowe and Dunn. I know all the negatives about Dunn, but he does get on base and changes the way the other guys are pitched.
By nolie
November 3, 2008 12:03 AM | Link to this
November 2, 2008 8:05 PM | Link to this
Nolie, there is a big difference seeing someone play a game and watching them go through individual workouts and infield practicekeylargo
it’s what he does in games that counts, not what he does in workouts, though I have watched him work out some too as I live in Fla also. I am not insulting the guy, but I was a scout for a lotta years and I know a great defensive player when I get a chance to watch one play for that many games, and he is not nor do I believe will he ever be much more than average as a SS and as he ages he might even become not as good if he continues to grow. I am not a big believer in any of the fielding stats, but they also agree, as does the Fielding Bible that he is not all that good either. As a hitter he is topnotch , no question, but as a fielder I think you would be hard pressed to find many evaluators that find him much above average, certainly not in a class with Yunel although I’d take him over Esco or most anybody else because of his offense. He might even make the HOF if he stays healthy and productive long enough, but it won’t be because of his fielding. If you can work out that swap I’ll go for it though.
By Bluevsu
November 3, 2008 12:04 AM | Link to this
Hey DOB, what about this…
for the Peavy trade… I have heard that the Padres want two pitchers, an outfielder, and a middle infielder (I have read that they are trying to get rid of Khalil Greene’s salary and might include him in the deal). Having the untouchables and the nearly untouchables in mind…trade Cole Rohrbough, Kris Medlen, Blanco or B. Jones, and Kelly Johnson for Peavy. This way, Infante could play second and Prado and Kotchman platoon first until Freddie Freeman could come up. By the way though, I don’t see what the big deal on Hanson is…yes he is doing very well in the minors, but so did Macay McBride, Horacio Ramirez, Kyle Davies, Joey Devine, Lance Cormier, Boyer, Bennett, James, Lerew, Reyes, Acosta, and I could go on…what will be different about Hanson?
For the 2nd/3rd Starter… I know you said that FW is eyeing Lowe or Burnett, but I think Garland from the Angels would be cheaper and just as good.
For the need of power and an outfielder… I have read in several articles that Magglio Ordonez is close to becoming a Brave, but I would like to see FW atleast make an offer on Matt Holiday. Trade Diaz (because nobody thinks that he can start in Atlanta), or Blanco/B. Jones and prospects. This way we would have a definite clean-up hitter behind Chipper because I have read on several blogs with people saying that McCann doesn’t have enough power to protect Chipper, even though he led the team in homers and RBI last year. However, I know Holiday will have a hefty price tag on him. Raul Ibanez might be a cheaper alternative (not at clean-up, though). Just a wild thought, we could move Chipper back to left, let Infante play third and Prado play second just for kicks…
Other Stuff I would let Josh Anderson play everyday in center because he provides speed and a prototypical lead-off man, both the Braves desperately need. I would drop Hampton like a hot potato, and resign Julio, Ohman, Smoltz, and Norton. I would also bring up Tyler Flowers ASAP! The Braves need a good back-up to let McCann rest and isn’t an automatic out that kills the line-up…I like Corky Miller but…umm…well…yeah and Clint Sammons didn’t do much better last year.
With all this done… line-up Anderson CF Escobar SS C. Jones 3B Holiday? LF McCann C Infante 2B Francoeur RF (pending he gets his swing) Prado/Kotchman 1B
starters Peavy Jurrjens Garland Glavine Campillo
bullpen Smoltz (closer), Soriano, Moylan, Gonzalez, Ohman, Carlyle, Julio
I don’t have Hudson in because i think he will miss the whole with the injury.
Thoughts, constructive criticisms, and rebuttals are accepted and appreciated
By mitchie-san
November 3, 2008 12:09 AM | Link to this
How about not posting that again?
By dwbrave
November 3, 2008 12:12 AM | Link to this
Why would Chipper want to go back to left field—he is one of the best 3rd baseman around. Don’t even compare Hanley to Chipper—Chipper has earned the respect that Hanley has not yet.
By N Nine
November 3, 2008 12:13 AM | Link to this
I’m sorry Bluevsu, did you say something?..I most have missed it.
By David O'Brien
November 3, 2008 12:21 AM | Link to this
Wiki, not sure if the trade show’s open to public or not, but i think it is. There definitely is a trade show; I’ve never been to it at any Winter Meetings, but I’ve always seen it set up.
Meetings are at the Bellagio; don’t know where the trade show will be.
By Daybed Wagmoe
November 3, 2008 12:31 AM | Link to this
Bluevsu: By the way though, I don’t know what the big deal is about Hanson…yeah he is good in the minors but so were Macay Mcride, Kyle Davies, Joey Devine, Boyer, James, Reyes, Lerew, Bennett, Stockman, Ridgeway, Morton (showed promise but posted a record of like 3-8)…and I could go on, what is going to be different about him?
One thing that sets Hanson apart from most of those guys you mentioned is his K/IP ratio, which is above 1 (according to baseball-reference.com, he’s got 373 strikeouts in 323 innings pitched. Of the pitchers you mentioned, only a couple had a ratio above 1 — Chuck James and Joey Devine. Based on the reports I’ve read and Hanson’s blog entry, he’s got more of an arsenal than James’ fastball and changeup.
We shouldn’t trade him just because he’s pitching well in the minor leagues and other pitchers who also pitched well in the minors haven’t had much success in the bigs (at least, not yet). People are saying that this kid is good, and there wouldn’t be this much hype surrounding him if he wasn’t really talented.
By scottbravesfan
November 3, 2008 12:37 AM | Link to this
If the Braves trade Jason Heyward it’s going to come back and bite them. Same with Hanson. Let the Padres demand all they want doesn’t mean they are going to get it. I don’t see the Cubs or Cardinals coming up with the prospects to get Peavy.
By matt
November 3, 2008 1:47 AM | Link to this
Just got back from Rock n’ Roll Means Well in Tallahassee. Great show. They brought the rock! I actually used to be in DBT and got to play Buttholeville with them tonite. Good fun.
DOB, love the blog. Been a reader for a long time, don’t post much. Really hoping we hear about a Peavy deal soon. Hot Stove, heat up!
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
November 3, 2008 1:54 AM | Link to this
Here is another take on the Jake Peavy trade proposal.
Remember last off-season and the Johan Santana deal that went down? The Mets sent four players to the Twins consisting of three pitchers and one outfielder.
Neither team made the playoffs, although the Twins came within one game. As great as Johan Santana was in 2008, the Mets still didn’t get it done.
According to Ken Rosenthal, the Padres are rumored to be asking for as much as five players in return for Jake Peavy. If this is true, they can go take a flying leap. Not even Johan Santana is worth that much, not to mention the elbow/injury risk baggage that comes with Peavy.
I’m not advocating for or against Jake Peavy per say. I’m just saying, don’t overvalue the man. If Atlanta sells the farm, it could come back to bite the Braves in the butt. Peavy is an ACE and the Braves need one. But he isn’t gonna part the Red Sea anytime soon.
By David O'Brien
November 3, 2008 1:59 AM | Link to this
Matt, great to have you on board. Post whenever you can. When were you in the band, for which albums? (You can e-mail me if you don’t want to discuss it here. (dobrien@ajc..com)
Alright, all, talk to you tomorrow. Gotta get a few hours sleep before my flight to Cali.
By mitchie-san
November 3, 2008 2:10 AM | Link to this
Bring back good news, DOB. Have a safe flight.
By ccrider
November 3, 2008 2:24 AM | Link to this
Trade for Jon Lannan $.5, sign Derek Lowe $16, sign Adam Dunn $16. Trade for Cody Ross $2 and Platoon him against lefties in LF and/or CF. Total $34.5 Mil. Money left to resign Ohman, Hampton, Smoltz, Norton and Glavine. Rotaion Lowe, Hampton, Jurrjens, Lannan, Glavine or Hanson. Lineup Escobar, KJ, Chipper, Dunn/Ross, McCann, Franceour, Kotchman, Schafer/Ross. Bullpen, Smoltz, Gonzalez, Soriano, Ohman, Moylan, Campillo, Acosta. Bench Norton, Infante, Prado, Toby Hall, Ross.
By cameron
November 3, 2008 2:36 AM | Link to this
* Bluevsu *
You want to move Chipper back to LF? You know the place that started all these injuries for him! Chipper Jones, for one, is a great 3B. Second, with all the leg problems he has, he probably going to miss 20+ games playing third. Move him to LF and let him play 5 games and hes going to end up missing half of the season if not more. Not such a good idea.
I say trade for Peavy at a reasonable cost. Flowers stock has probably rose since putting up those amazing numbers in the AFL. Even tho those numbers impress me so much id like to see him battle for 1B with Kotchman in spring training and if he beats him, shop Kotchman late. But is we can get Peavy thats a great place to start, an ace. Once Peavy as been traded for then we need another pitcher to cover the 2 or 3 spot in the order, personally id love to get Lowe or Burnett to feel in the 2nd spot. And I think if we get Peavy and show we are trying to be contenders, that would show Lowe or Burnett we can win, and maybe they will come to Atlanta. We need Peavy, Lowe/Burnett/Sheets, and we need to trade for one of the Tampa Bay Rays good young pitching like Jackson or Sonnanstine. Then we need to get Adam Dunn. Sign Ohman, and Norton.
Lineup.
1. Josh Anderson/Jordon Schafer
2. Kelly Johnson
3. Chipper Jones
4. Adam Dunn
5. Brian McCann
6. Casey Kotchman
7. Jeff Francoeur
8. Kahlil Greene/Brent Lillibridge
9. Jake Peavy
Pitching.
1. Jake Peavy
2. Derek Lowe/AJ Burnett/Ben Sheets
3. Jair Jurrjens
4. Edwin Jackson/Andy Sonnanstine
5. Tommy Hanson
LETS SO BRAVES!!
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
November 3, 2008 2:54 AM | Link to this
Two very startling things happened this past season that no one other than myself appears to be aware of.
For the first time in the modern history of the Atlanta Braves, no starter cracked the 200 inning mark. I went back through fifty years of stats and could not find one single instance where this has happened before.
The Braves bullpen set an all time record for innings pitched at 554.1 innings.
2008 was really atrocious, pitching wise.
By crap-wheelie
November 3, 2008 8:37 AM | Link to this
DOB:
Take it from an old rock club fan, you need to carry earplugs to concerts. When the sound is painful, put them in. I used to have friends in some serious bands—they’re still friends; they aren’t in bands anymore—and used to go to a lot of shows. About a decade ago, I started noticing significant loss in my left ear. I now wear plugs when the sound is painful, I double up the hearing protection around firearms, and I no longer drive the freeways with the windows down. I want to be able to hear music all of my life, and I’m willing to sacrifice some fidelity at a live show to protect my hearing.
BTW, a baseball question. What does Hanson throw? What are the ratings on his pitches?
Thanks for the blog. It’s great.
By Lew
November 3, 2008 8:53 AM | Link to this
Bluevsu-No
By stamper
November 3, 2008 9:01 AM | Link to this
Speaking of ringing ears… i went to the Sylvie / Annuals / Minus the Bear show on Saturday. That was pretty amazing as well. Those kids in Annuals are pretty damn talented! Their new album is pretty solid, but all those songs are super charged when they play ‘em live. great show! Minus the Bear and Sylvie were awesome as well. Now I have to regroup this week just in time for Of Montreal to knock my hearing into sensory overload this upcoming Saturday. love it.
By stamper
November 3, 2008 9:12 AM | Link to this
also… does anyone know anything about Junichi Tazawa? Japanese stats? Anything? I heard the Braves will be meeting with him tomorrow? Validity?
By DAP
November 3, 2008 9:22 AM | Link to this
bluevsu wow. starting with platooning kotchman and prado at 1st base until freeman is ready, nothing in your post made sense.
By Lew
November 3, 2008 9:26 AM | Link to this
I’ve been a fan of Hard Rock for over 4 decades. I’ve been to concerts with such stalwarts as Zeppelin, Mountain, Deep Purple, Humble Pie, The Stones and Aerosmith (plenty of others, too). The loudest band I ever heard? Heart.
Annie Wilson hit so many high notes that night at UGA, amplified by about 50,000 watts of Marshall amplification, that I had to put my fingers in my ears-she was hitting the pain threshold. I was on row 7 left and couldn’t hear for three days afterward.
By DAP
November 3, 2008 9:28 AM | Link to this
stamper heres some info i found about the braves’ intrest in tazawa:
メジャー挑戦を表明した新日本石油ＥＮＥＯＳ・田沢純一投手（２２＝横浜商大高）の獲得へ、フィリーズ、ブレーブスが関心を示していることが２２日、分かった。この日、ブラジル遠征から帰国した田沢は、川崎市のグラウンドで記者会見を行った。田沢は現地で２試合に先発し、計１０回１失点の内容だった。
i have no idea what it means, but it looks exciting!!
from what i understand about him, he has not played at the highest level in japan. he avoided the draft over there so he could play here. he’s 22 and can throw a 97mph fastball. thats all i know!
By Steve McQueen
November 3, 2008 9:39 AM | Link to this
DOB, DOB, When I was a young boy I wanted to be DOB, DOB, The coolest gosh darn mother scratcher at the AJC.
By stamper
November 3, 2008 9:45 AM | Link to this
DAP brilliant.
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 3, 2008 9:46 AM | Link to this
Bluevsu I have read several blogs where people were saying that McCann doesn’t have enough power to be a clean-up hitter and protect Chipper
LOL! What kind of losers write those blogs?
McCann hit .309 with 6 homers, 12 doubles, 33 RBI, 19 SO, 18 walks, 25 runs scored, 3 stolen bases, a .374 OBP, and a .494 SLG in 43 games as a cleanup hitter.
I will say that he did better in the number five and six spots, but he became our full-time cleanup up man um…when the Braves played the Fillies at the end of July…See, he only hit three homers after that series…
By WaitTilNextYear
November 3, 2008 9:50 AM | Link to this
DAP, I know what it means! It means, “The Braves will sign CC Sabathia and AJ Burnett, trade for Jake Peavy and a centerfielder and a power hitting outfielder in the winter.”
By Lee in S GA
November 3, 2008 10:00 AM | Link to this
The loudest band I ever heard?
If anyone remembers the group Mother’s Finest, I heard this band while in college at GA Southwestern College in Americus GA in 1980. They play in the college gym. My ears has a ringing sound for days and I actually though damage was done to one of my ear drums.
By Lee in S GA
November 3, 2008 10:05 AM | Link to this
Bluevsu
I think the main problem with McCann protecting Chipper and being the clean-up hitter is that he will not play every game because of his cathing position, not that he does not have enough power or not that he is not capable of batting clean-up.
By Steve from OH
November 3, 2008 10:11 AM | Link to this
Jon Heyman’s take on the Peavy talks:
“The Braves balked at the high asking price. So with the Astros having nothing of interest to trade, it appears the Padres will investigate the others on Peavy’s original approved list: the Cubs, Dodgers and Cardinals. Perhaps eventually, Peavy may have to expand that list. Or the Padres may have to accept less from the Braves.”
By Mitch
November 3, 2008 10:18 AM | Link to this
It will be interesting to see how Wren fills our needs this winter. If we can get Peavy, that would be wonderful, but at what cost? I hope that if Smoltz can pitch in 2009, that we re sign him. It would be awful to see his twenty plus year career with the Braves end, with a season like 2008. As far as Glavine: I was very excited when we signed him for 2008. Now, if we can get Peavy, maybe you have to turn Tom down, as awful as that sounds. We also have two other questions. One, what happens with Mike Hampton, and two, if Smoltz does come back, is he a six inning starter in the rotation, or our closer? I dont realistically see us bringing in Peavy, and retaining Glavine, Smoltz, and Hampton. Hampton is younger than Glavine, of course, but Tommy has been here forever. One possibility if we do sign Peavy, is to keep Smoltz, have him as the closer, if he can pitch, keep Tommy for 8 or 9 mil, which will be cheaper than Hampton, and let Hampton go.
We do need another hitter. We miss Tex’s bat at first base. Adam Dunn is a great power hitter, but I dont know what it will cost to sign him. We would then have a good power hitting middle of the order with Chipper, Mccann, and Dunn.
Wren has got some very interesting choices, and finally, for the first time in several winters, the GM of the Braves has money to spend. I know he will spend it wisely, and hopefully, we can be competeitive in 2009.
Mitch
By nate
November 3, 2008 10:29 AM | Link to this
I just can’t see the Braves going after any high priced free agent pitchers. Sabathia, Sheets, Burnett, even Lowe and Dempster are gonna command major bucks.
There’s a lot of team with significant dough to spend this off season, so expect spending on free agents to go nuts. The Braves are really a mid-market team. They can’t afford to get into bidding wars with the big boys from New York and California. The Braves just can’t spend 20 million a year on one pitcher the way some of those clubs do.
The free agent market for outfielders is deeper and cheaper, and I’m guessing that’s where the Braves will spend their money.
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 3, 2008 10:40 AM | Link to this
Lee in S GA—
Exactly.
By DAP
November 3, 2008 10:55 AM | Link to this
i cant hardly stand it. whats going to happen??
im trying hard to take it one development at a time, but its hard. right now im waiting to see if the brewers pick up mike cameron’s option…cross your fingers!
By Steve from OH
November 3, 2008 11:09 AM | Link to this
More Peavy info for the denizens…good stuff straight from Towers.
By stamper
November 3, 2008 11:15 AM | Link to this
…ran in to Paul Byrd while I was at work the other day. He was really cool. Talked to him for a couple minutes. Evidently he lives in the area during the off season.
(i’ve got nothing really significant or interesting to add to that story; just kinda random is all)
By GermanBravesFan
November 3, 2008 11:17 AM | Link to this
Nate…
If you had been following the blog, you would have seen DOB state more than once that the Braves’ primary needs will be TWO starters and ONE outfielder. Nothing has changed since the last time DOB mentioned that here.
By matt
November 3, 2008 11:21 AM | Link to this
I was the first drummer, played with them for about 3 years. I played on the first two albums, Gangstabilly and Pizza Deliverance. Basically, I played all the shows with them until they started getting big.
By Cooper
November 3, 2008 11:21 AM | Link to this
Heyman over at SI really must hate the Braves or at very least see them as a undesirable/cheapskate destination.
His FA predictions for this winter have the Braves getting no one. I mean no one.
He gives them a mention as a fall back for the Padres if they cannot do better with the Cubs or Cards re: Peavy.
Same story every year with or without money the Braves are viewed as the red headed step child.
I hope Wren proves Heyman and his ilk wrong.
Must be a tough gig to just say the Yankees, Mets and now Angels get all the quality FAs. You barely have to start you brain to write those type of predictions.
By DAP
November 3, 2008 11:24 AM | Link to this
steve from OH nice article. also, check the comments from padres fans. they dont seem to have much confidence in the padres front office! i think the price is going to drop, personally.
By CMC
November 3, 2008 11:31 AM | Link to this
Lee in South GA,
Did you attend High School in Americus? I was born there and moved away in 1980.
By Steve from OH
November 3, 2008 11:35 AM | Link to this
Brewers exercise Cameron’s option…sorry DAP.
By DAP
November 3, 2008 11:44 AM | Link to this
Brewers exercise Cameron’s option…sorry DAP.
ah, crap. well at least i can stop wondering about that one. thanx for the update, steve.
By MizzouBravesFan
November 3, 2008 11:51 AM | Link to this
New comments from Towers regarding a Peavy trade….
*Towers said Friday that he doesn’t necessarily have to get a lot of pitching as part of the package for Peavy.
“We want to get the best deal that we can,” he said. “In any type of Peavy deal, ideally we’d get pitching, but we want the best players back and are focusing to improve our club in ‘09 and beyond.”*
I’d offer Escobar, Schafer, and Medlen or someone like that and see if they bite.
We seem willing to take back Greene…don’t know what other team will do that.
I just hope Wren strikes swiftly, would hate to see this continue to drag out.
By DAP
November 3, 2008 12:04 PM | Link to this
We seem willing to take back Greene…
what makes you say that?
By Chuck James is solid until the 6th!! (Formerly Steve-O)
November 3, 2008 12:05 PM | Link to this
Just a side note about the afformentioned Dr. James Andrews…If you have HBO on Demand there is a pretty cool 15 minute segment under HBO Sports section about him and his practice with Hudson and Smoltz in it for a little bit. This doctor truly is the Tiger and Michael of Doctors…He is 100% in the zone with what he does….And pretty damn great at it too…
By MizzouBravesFan
November 3, 2008 12:09 PM | Link to this
Just rumors going around…I’m sure if we include Esco, Greene would be coming back.
By Randy S
November 3, 2008 12:14 PM | Link to this
Matt indeed was the first drummer for the Truckers, he was also my boss for a time. Good to see you on here, man. He was also the drummer for a fine band with his brother, The Possibilities (out of Athens). They had 2 albums released, a self-titled debut and Way Out! in the late 90s/early 2000s. Don’t know Way Out! as well, but I highly recommend the debut album. Matt, I hope all is well. Saw your brother’s band last time I was in town. A good time was had by all.
By FaninFaytown
November 3, 2008 12:16 PM | Link to this
i just dont see us getting greene. there is no reason to include escobar imo. I get the feeling that some of the other clubs aren’t going to be able to match what we can offer in prospects, even w/o including the “untouchables”. But regardless of that.. i dont see is trading escobar and adding greene who is going to make a lot more money…unless sd is going to pay most of that. We definately dont need to waste a penny of our $40ish million on a shortstop.
By semiballcoach
November 3, 2008 12:19 PM | Link to this
mlbtraderumors says braves are interested in willy tavares..hope not
By Efrim
November 3, 2008 12:21 PM | Link to this
Found this from a Denver paper article:
Kansas City, the New York Yankees, Chicago White Sox and Atlanta have indicated interest in Taveras.
Here is the link:
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2008/nov/02/gm-meetings/?partner=RSS
Taveras is awful. I hope the Braves stay away.
By Do It Brewers
November 3, 2008 12:24 PM | Link to this
im waiting to see if the brewers pick up mike cameron’s option…cross your fingers!
I’ve got them crossed and I’m praying hard that they re-sign him
By Lee in S GA
November 3, 2008 12:27 PM | Link to this
CMC
No, I attended Worth County High School in Sylvester, GA and graduated from college in Americus.
By nolie
November 3, 2008 12:31 PM | Link to this
mlbtraderumors says braves are interested in willy tavares..hope not
God, me too. what a waste that would be. Anderson is as good
By Lee in S GA
November 3, 2008 12:35 PM | Link to this
Taveras is awful. I hope the Braves stay away.
Hopefully the other teams interested in him will outbid the Braves on this one. I don’t want the Braves to resign him either, regardless of a few decent outings toward the end of the season.
By RC
November 3, 2008 12:37 PM | Link to this
Brewers did pick up Cameron’s option I just read.
By Lee in S GA
November 3, 2008 12:40 PM | Link to this
my mistake on taveras, crossed him up with another player
By Bruce's Pearl
November 3, 2008 12:41 PM | Link to this
perhaps the interest in Tavarez indicates a willingness to include Schafer in the Peavy deal?
By TommyP
November 3, 2008 12:43 PM | Link to this
Taveras?????????? Wow….that’s out of left field. Uhhhhhhhh…wait a minute, Beavis.
By 22oz
November 3, 2008 12:48 PM | Link to this
I see the Phillies are interested in Pete Orr. Starting early to lock up that 2009 pennant.
By Jim
November 3, 2008 12:49 PM | Link to this
Question. Is Peavy a big game pitcher ala Smoltz, Beckett, Schilling, Morris? The sample size is only 1 game but he did not pitch very well in that game. Also, if he were truly a big game pitcher, wouldn’t he include the Yankees and Red Sox on his preferred list? He would have a better chance of pitching in October there than with Houston and, alas, Atlanta.
Our 6th from the bottom of both leagues finish this year does not mean we are only a couple of players away from contending for a WS title next year, especially if we trade away our very solid SS to add one of those 3 players. I just hope that Wren does not do anything this winter that will jeopradize our more realistic chances of competing in 2010 and 2011 when these “untouchables” arrive in the Major Leagues. If most or all do not live up to our expectations, then our organization was not as good as the Brewers and Rays at drafting and evaluating the players in their system and we will have a longer wait until we return to playoffs. We are a mid-market payroll in a division that includes the Mets and Phillies who will always be able to out spend us. We must rely on our system producing quality home-grown talent.
By DAP
November 3, 2008 12:49 PM | Link to this
mlbtraderumors says braves are interested in willy tavares
what? why? weve got two of him already! i dont think thats right.
By Efrim
November 3, 2008 12:49 PM | Link to this
Lee in S GA
Actually, I was referring to Willy Taveras. But yes, Julian Taveras is pretty bad as well.
By DAP
November 3, 2008 12:52 PM | Link to this
i feel sorry for tavares. he is the best basestealer in the majors. if only he could get on base…
By Lawrenceville Matt
November 3, 2008 12:54 PM | Link to this
Actually, Tommy…Taveras plays centerfield. haha, just kidding…
But seriously, maybe Frankie Wren is thinking he can get Taveraz in a package deal that includes a solid starter perhaps…
By Steve from OH
November 3, 2008 12:57 PM | Link to this
Braves interested in Taveras? That can’t be real…
By Steve from OH
November 3, 2008 1:05 PM | Link to this
Maybe Ringolsby confused our interest with Atkins as interest in Taveras? Atkins hits lefies well, but I worry about the home/road splits…
By BravesFanInRockies
November 3, 2008 1:08 PM | Link to this
DAP,
We don’t really have two Willy Taverases already. We have two OF on the major league roster who are now better (Blanco and Anderson) and a third (Schafer) who should put all three of them to shame. And the three guys we now have will make less money combined than Taveras.
I’ve said it on this site a dozen times. Taveras can run. That’s it. He has no other value as an offensive player and because he doesn’t get on base and has no power you could argue that he’s a negative when he’s not on base — which is more often than either Blanco or Anderson.
By Efrim
November 3, 2008 1:14 PM | Link to this
Steve from OH
Where would Atkins play with Kotchman and Chipper around?
By Efrim
November 3, 2008 1:34 PM | Link to this
http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extrabases/2008/11/bostonnot_high.html
Sounds like the Braves are still atop their list as suitors for Peavy. Cafardo makes it seem like Escobar is as good as gone if the Peavy deal is made. I guess that is their way of keeping top prospects out of the deal. I don’t like it, but I suppose one of Escobar, Hanson or Heyward had to be in the deal. If Yunel is in the deal, than Jordan Schafer better not be. You can’t deal two 2009 regulars(or that is how it was planned).
By DAP
November 3, 2008 1:34 PM | Link to this
bravesfaninrockies good point, you are absolutley correct. if only blanco or anderson could steal bases like tavares, they would be among the best leadoff hitters in the game. oh well.
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 3, 2008 1:46 PM | Link to this
22oz I see the Phillies are interested in Pete Orr.
Good lord, no! Not another speedster!
By Braveheart
November 3, 2008 1:48 PM | Link to this
Efrim, in a strange way I want the Red Sox to get into the Peavy talks…… it would be scary if they do because they have the goods to get a deal done or to make us give more than we want to give but Theo’s scouts know how to evaluate pitchers about as good as anyone ….. or so it seems to me. If they go after him, that means, to me, Theo’s boys are not that scared of his violent mechanics. If they stay out of the talks, that would cause for concern for me……. It’s the same thing with that Tazawa kid….. Because the Red Sox have interest, I’m assuming he must be good ……… so I like that the Braves are also in those talks ……. If Brian Cashman is interested in someone, I’d run away because Cashman and his boys are clueless on how to evaluate pitchers
By nolie
November 3, 2008 1:50 PM | Link to this
Other Stuff I would let Josh Anderson play everyday in center because he provides speed and a prototypical lead-off man, both the Braves desperately need.
prototypical lead-off men don’t have career OBP of .330 or less. He needs to get on at least 35% of the time, preferably more and I don’t think Anderson will ever do that regularly. Getting on base is more important than speed if they are not both available in the same package
By DAP
November 3, 2008 1:50 PM | Link to this
i just dont like the idea of trading escobar in the peavy deal. i feel like he is a big part of the success of this team. i suppose we could go to battle with lillibridge and bat him 8th. im sure his D is good enough, but i dont want a black hole in our lineup, especially a lineup that needs alot of help already.
By RC
November 3, 2008 1:51 PM | Link to this
Brewers did pick up Cameron’s option I just read.
By kirknga
November 3, 2008 1:52 PM | Link to this
Taveras makes sense because he’s a CF and leadoff guy. I think it’s obvious now that the Braves don’t value Anderson as highly as some here do. Neither did the Astros who would like to have Taveras back.
Anderson is great on the first pitch or if the count is 1-0 or 2-0, but it gets very ugly if not.
If Escobar is the 3rd best defensive SS in the league then that is more evidence that he should be part of an untouchable core. It is just not good baseball to weaken yourself up the middle as some here suggest we do in a Peavy trade.
I think the outline of Plan B(sign FA, trade for second starter, etc..) is solid.
I wonder if they take that route will they be serious? Are the Braves prepared to bring in a guy and make him the highest paid player on the team by a wide margin?
Pay Ohman his $3.5-4 million/year and get that done already.
By Doc Holliday
November 3, 2008 1:53 PM | Link to this
DAP
Do you really think Schafer will be a regular in 2009? Remember BJ. I like Schafer a lot more than BJ, but I wouldnt be so sure he is ready for a regular job. He might, but I dont think we can already assume that. Blanco, Anderson, Diaz and JF sound more like at this moment.
By mbatl
November 3, 2008 2:00 PM | Link to this
i just dont like the idea of trading escobar in the peavy deal. i feel like he is a big part of the success of this team
DAP, I don’t mean to be snarky, but, what success?.
By Efrim
November 3, 2008 2:00 PM | Link to this
Braveheart
That sickens me that you say that man!! Sorry, I hate the Red Sox. But yes, you’re right. Theo and the Red Sox front office do a lot of things right, and evaluating pitchers is probably the thing they do the best. I think if Peavy didn’t have a preference than we would find that out, but because he doesn’t want to go to the AL, I’m not sure if we will ever hear enough rumblings from them. Of course, its possible that this drags out until the winter meetings….and then maybe those rumblings increase.
I’d bet, even if the Red Sox were involved, they would make Bucholz and Anderson off limits similar to how we are making Heyward and Hanson off limits.
But they could still get a deal done with the likes of Bowden, Masterson, Ellsbury, and Lowrie around. Not to mention Reddick, Kalish and Bard in the minors as well. They have an embarrassment of riches. Scary organization.
By N Nine
November 3, 2008 2:18 PM | Link to this
Looks like Tim Dierkes sees us with Ben Sheets as his tenth best FA.
By Kentavo
November 3, 2008 2:20 PM | Link to this
If Yunel goes in the Peavy deal, would it make sense to sign Renteria for 1 or 2 years?
By N Nine
November 3, 2008 2:23 PM | Link to this
i cant hardly stand it. whats going to happen?? DAP
Wren using Yunel our the centerpiece for Peavy deal! I think they would want a guy like Flowers too. Just speculation on Flowers.
By kirknga
November 3, 2008 2:24 PM | Link to this
DAP
I agree with you on Escobar. If you have a player that is one of the best at his position as Escobar is defensively, then you don’t give him away.Especially if you are serious about developing players.
The FWIW rankings showing him behind Rollins and Hardy is pretty heady stuff after a single full season. He’s 6th in BA among NL SS’s .
I see a player, who is among the best at his position offensively and defensively. Some might even see those numbers and call him a success.
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 3, 2008 2:26 PM | Link to this
mbatl—
Sorry I never answered you Q the other night (somehow I missed it), but there are 103 days left until pitchers and catchers report! Whoo-hoo! It’s getting closer!
: )
By Mr J
November 3, 2008 2:29 PM | Link to this
DAP, I agree with the earlier poster that if Escobar goes to SD for Peavy, then we will be certainly getting Green as part of the deal. If SD retained Green, then they wouldn’t want Escobar. Dumping Green’s salary on the Braves would be part of the deal that would make it attractive. So I don’t think we have to worry about the readiness of Lil’bridge… at least not right away.
We’ve just got to trust Wren on this one. With Escobar, you could see how there might be some negative intangibles that we’re not privy to.
By DAP
November 3, 2008 2:30 PM | Link to this
kirknga Taveras makes sense because he’s a CF and leadoff guy.
what?? no! he is a terrible offensive player! c’mon kirk! a blog veteran like you should know better.
doc holliday Do you really think Schafer will be a regular in 2009?
i dont think i said that, doc. in fact, im positive that ive havent even typed schafer’s name today. except just then.
mbatl heh, i was refeering to FUTURE success. sorry to be confusing. escobar is a great player. the braves can be good without a stud SS (which i think he is) but i like him alot, he is a complete player, and we havent seen his power potential yet. i think hes got 20 homer, 40 double potential.
By Braveheart
November 3, 2008 2:33 PM | Link to this
You can’t trade Escobar. He’s a +21 defensively according to Dewan’s +/- Fielding Bible (which is about +16 runs), +10 defensively according to Tango’s Fan Scouting Report, +12 defensively according to Lichtman’s UZR, +7 defensively according to jinaz, and a +12.5 offensively relative to the average SS according to baseball prospectus’ pmlv.
He’s making the league minimum …… and will likely only get better offensively …. and he’s already a +25 run or so SS relative to the average SS. You do not trade that kind of SS…….
and it’s not just stats dictating that ….. this is the kind of guy your eyeballs tell you will get better and better if he avoids the nagging injuries he got this season. Just listen to his manager, coaches, and teammates:
“We would have never traded Renteria if we didn’t have someone like Escobar to follow,” Braves manager Bobby Cox said. “He’s an All-Star-caliber player….. He can really play the game. Great hands, great arm, great range…….. He’s not going to steal a lot of bases, probably, but he can run. He can hit for average, and if he wants to, he can hit for power.”
“I think he can be a .300 hitter in this league, no doubt in my mind,” hitting coach Terry Pendleton said of Escobar. “He can be an Edgar Renteria, possibly with more power. He has a good idea of the strike zone, and he’s aggressive in it. He might have to make adjustments this year as [pitchers] make adjustments to him, but he can hit. It showed last year, when he went against some teams a second and third time last year.”
“Escobar is one of the best players I’ve ever seen,” Braves All-Star catcher Brian McCann said. “What he did last year was phenomenal. That wasn’t a fluke. He’s the real deal. He can make every play on the field. I think next year at this time, everybody will be talking about putting him in the class of [Florida shortstop] Hanley Ramirez and those guys.”
“He’s going to hit for power,” Braves second baseman Kelly Johnson said of his double play partner Escobar. “I think it’ll be that right-center, (Marcus) Giles-back-in-the-day power. It’s gonna come. His [Escobar’s] hands … he’s got the best hands here. Stays inside the ball, consistently. He’s going to to add that pop.”
“He’s going to get to a whole lot of balls most guys won’t get to, and he’s going to make some throws other guys won’t,” said former Braves first baseman Mark Teixeira, a former Gold Glove winner for Texas.
“Ability-wise, he’s right up there with anybody I’ve ever played with,” Braves righthander Tim Hudson said.
“He’s pretty impressive,” one National League scout said. “There are a lot of good young shortstops out there. But I’d put him up there with Hanley [Ramirez] and the others.”
Third baseman Chipper Jones says Escobar has “got the game. Now go out and still play with that youthful exuberance. But act like you’ve done it before.”
By Blue Magic
November 3, 2008 2:34 PM | Link to this
AI to Detroit for Billups/McDyess
any basketball fans want to comment on that?
By Efrim
November 3, 2008 2:38 PM | Link to this
I have a real problem with soaking 6.5 of our 40-45 million with Khalil Greene. I don’t think he is a regular shortstop in the majors. Anyway, that trade is made, and 17.5 million is taken up. I hope that the inclusion of Greene’s 6.5 million dollar salary would also lessen the return the Padres are getting.
By N Nine
November 3, 2008 2:42 PM | Link to this
You can’t trade Escobar. He’s a +21 defensively Braveheart
No question Yunel is a big time player. He might have a higher upside than KJ.
Someone has to leave. We can take a hit in middle infield and not lose the future…
Picture Peavy,JJJ, and hanson for many years…I would like that
By Efrim
November 3, 2008 2:44 PM | Link to this
Blue Magic
Great trade for the Nuggets and an awful trade for the Pistons. If you start Stuckey, then you need to play Rip Hamilton as the sixth man. He can’t be trusted to D up opposing team’s small forwards.
The Pistons get worse. The Nuggets get better.
By MizzouBravesFan
November 3, 2008 2:46 PM | Link to this
According to Bowman’s mailbag, Peavy doesn’t want to come here….
But with his no-trade clause, the ball will always remain in Peavy’s court and, right now, I don’t get the sense he’s comfortable coming to Atlanta. Last week, I wrote about how Peavy told a friend that he was concerned the Braves can’t compete with the Mets and Phillies in the NL East.
Since then, I’ve heard he’s told other friends that he’s more interested in the possibility of being traded to the Dodgers, who have the pieces to make a run toward defending their NL West crown.
yawn
LOL one minute he’s supposedly telling friends he wants to come here now he’s telling friends he doesn’t want to.
Which is it???
By keylargo
November 3, 2008 2:51 PM | Link to this
Blue Magic
No. Find the appropriate blog.
By kirknga
November 3, 2008 2:58 PM | Link to this
DAP
Tavares would not be my first choice(or 2nd or even 5th) for CF, but he lead the league in SB’s and he is a good fielder. I think he’s a better option than Anderson.
If it is true that the Braves are interested then I trust their valuations. They obviously are thinking about some veteran presence.
Tavares doesn’t give me much comfort that’s for sure.
By Doc Holliday
November 3, 2008 3:00 PM | Link to this
Sorry DAP, my bad, it was Efrim that said what I mentioned before.
By Lee in S GA
November 3, 2008 3:04 PM | Link to this
I almost wish another team would make the trade with the Padres and end the Peavy speculation. The more time I have to think about this deal I don’t want it to happen. Like a onion, the more you peel, the more it stinks. Padres assumed they were going to take the Braves to the cleaners, kind of the Ranger’s did with the Tex trade and fortunately Wren appears to have put his foot down on the younger prospects. I don’t want Escobar to go either.
By ppaddy123
November 3, 2008 3:06 PM | Link to this
Hardly ever post, but I read everyday. you guys need to take a chill pill! All the wild speculation and deals you are making in your heads…..All the “PRO” sports writers making their predictions……it’s, well silly. The Braves are 1 of 30 teams that will be trying to improve this off season. Jake Peavy has given his GM a list of teams “HE” is willing to be traded. And since the Braves are high on his list, it makes sense to get that deal done. I can’t really see trading Peavy to the Dodgers. That leaves what? 3 or 4 other teams?
And, as for trading prospects or other young MLB players, think about it like this. If I were to suggest trading Francoeur for Peavy after Francoeur’s 2007 season, you guys would tell me I’m crazy. But right now, after his sub par 2008 season, if the Braves could get Peavy for Francoeur many on this blog would support that trade. Basically, it comes down to perspective. Or, better yet, what have you done for me lately? A guy like Francoeur has a small window of MLB experience. A prospect……………none. Jake Peavy is a proven commodity. AND RIGHT NOW HE PICKED UP FOR 70 CENT ON THE DOLLAR Just wait and see what C.C. signs for.
By Nuke LaLoosh
November 3, 2008 3:07 PM | Link to this
Hey DOB- Just looking for your honest opinion on the Braves’ two young, promising centerfielders… as a Braves insider and using your gut feelings and whatever else you may have gathered: which of Gorkys or Jordan do you feel the Braves are most likely to hold on to. I know nothing is certain and you can’t state any of it as fact, but could you tell us what your instincts tell you on the centerfield matter, please. Thanks, you da man!
By Steve from OH
November 3, 2008 3:08 PM | Link to this
Efrim, I’m just trying to come up with a way that we’re NOT intereted in Taveras, lol. Seriously though, that can’t be legit, can it?
Kris Medlen starting today for Mesa, if anyone’s interested.
Don’t trade Yunel!
By PABraveFan
November 3, 2008 3:10 PM | Link to this
I don’t mind putting Escobar into the trade! I think we should do that and then try to bring back Furcal. He replaces the offense and is the leadoff man that we needed since he left. On top of that, we didn’t rape the minors and we would have Peavy in return. Not too bad.
By Blue Magic
November 3, 2008 3:11 PM | Link to this
Keylargo,
Sorry - didn’t mean to interrupt your “Hanley belongs on the team rant…”
You can go ahead and continue on your fantasy trades that won’t be happening. I tend to skip those posts
Baseball season is over. We can sit here and come up with any ludacris trade theory we want to - but no one is actually listening.
Didn’t know we couldn’t talk about something that actually happened in the sports world - whether it’s in the MLB or not…
Regards,
By Efrim
November 3, 2008 3:12 PM | Link to this
Doc Holliday
I’d like Schafer to start in Triple A initially. Then come up in June or July. But it wouldn’t shock me if he beat out Blanco and Anderson in spring training.
By semiballcoach
November 3, 2008 3:18 PM | Link to this
one question…why did yunel consistently get more bad calls from the umpires than any other brave?
By mbatl
November 3, 2008 3:19 PM | Link to this
there are 103 days left until pitchers and catchers report! Whoo-hoo! It’s getting closer!
McFann, thanks a lot! In my youth, it took me a week or more to get over a UGA loss… but now, I’m usually functional by mid-morning on Monday and looking forward to next Saturday … but still can’t wait for spring radio broadcasts from Dark Star (though without Pete and Skip, it’ll be different)
DAP, gotcha (on Escobar and “future success”). I probably knew what you meant, but I really just couldn’t resist, given the 90 losses this year …
By nate
November 3, 2008 3:21 PM | Link to this
*Nate…
If you had been following the blog, you would have seen DOB state more than once that the Braves’ primary needs will be TWO starters and ONE outfielder. Nothing has changed since the last time DOB mentioned that here.*
I understand what the teams needs are. I’m not debating that. What I meant was that there is no way the Braves are going to go out and sign Sabathia, or Sheets to a $20 mill/season contract. It won’t happen. If the Braves acquire a true ace it will be through a trade. I can see them trading for Peavy and signing someone like Garland, but the Braves simply aren’t players on the big ticket free agents.
There are some impact outfielders available in free agency, that won’t break the bank. If the Braves make a large free agent acquisition I expect it to be an outfielder.
By Deep Throat
November 3, 2008 3:23 PM | Link to this
12:08pm: Nick Cafardo of the Boston Globe says Towers still considers the Braves the best match for a Peavy trade. Cafardo says the Braves appear willing to trade shortstop Yunel Escobar. He adds that the Red Sox haven’t been ruled out but they’re far down the list.
This I love. Imagine Peavy, Hanson and Jurrjens. Nice. Pitching is better than hitting.
Maybe the Braves can give up less if they take Greene off the Padres’ hands. But they should not have to give up more for Greene. Greene is a salary dump. Taking him says to the Padres; “we’ll take him off your hands as a benefit of the trade.”
Anyway, to get Peavy (which I support), you have to give up something. Giving up Escobar is better than Hanson or Heyward, so I say go for it.
By Robert
November 3, 2008 3:24 PM | Link to this
If Peavy doesn’t want to come here, then let’s move on. For someone that wants to go to the post season, ask him how well he pitched in that 1 game playoff
By Braveheart
November 3, 2008 3:25 PM | Link to this
Picture Peavy,JJJ, and hanson for many years…I would like that
Peavy,JJJ, Greene and Hanson is not as good as Peavy,JJJ, and Escobar. And even if it is, Peavy,JJJ, Greene and Hanson will like cost more than Peavy,JJJ, and Escobar.
Let’s look at salary allocation for next season: $100 mil budget. How is it allocated? Looks it will be split somewhat evenly between pitchers and hitters.
The starting staff will likely have about $38 million allocated to it. $13 for Hudson, $11 for Peavy, $11 for veteran FA, $400 K for Jurrjens and the other young fourth and fifth starters like Morton and JoJo and Hanson. If insurance eats half of Hudson’s contract, there will be $6 or $7 million to give to Hampton.
The relief corps may have about $15 million. $6 will go to Soriano, maybe $4 to Gonzalez, maybe $4 to Ohman. That would be similar to teams who give guys like Lidge $13 million. Instead of giving it to one main guy, we give it to three guys. Then the rest of the relievers will make the league minimum.
Around the infield, McCann, Kotchman, KJ, Escobar, Chipper will likely cost $22 million. Around the outfield, Magglio, Schafer, Frenchy will likely cost $18 million. On the bench, Norton, Nitmar, Infante, Anderson, Diaz, Sammons will likely cost about $7 million.
The starters cost about $38 million. The relievers about $15 million. The infield about $22 million. The outfield about $18 million. The bench about $7 million.
If you get rid of Escobar and take on Greene’s $6 million, you will no longer be allowed to cry if the Braves have garbage on the bench or if Ohman isn’t here next year. Taking on that loser’s contract will cause us to make cuts on the bench and the bullpen. You wouldn’t just be trading away Escobar, you’d also be trading away Ohman, Diaz and Norton because Escobar’s contract makes Ohman, Diaz and Norton’s contracts affordable.
By LKS
November 3, 2008 3:29 PM | Link to this
It is about time to hear people on here talk about how GREAT Escobar is and that it would not be a good idea to trade him. I understand we have to trade someone good to get someone great but not the 2nd best defensive ss in the majors. it will be a BIG mistake. However, I do still think if the trade happens it will be Esco that goes. Just get ready for Greene who will be considerably weaker defensively and offensively. I would trade just about anyone over Esco.
By Steve from OH
November 3, 2008 3:37 PM | Link to this
Medlen out of the game…2 scoreless innings, 3K, 2H, 0BB.
By Wayne
November 3, 2008 3:39 PM | Link to this
I don’t want to trade Escobar, KJ, Hanson, Heyward, Freeman, Teheran, Locke, Medlen, Rohrbough, Flowers, Francoeur, Jurrjens, Morton, Reyes, Campillo, Redmond, Diamond, Lillibridge, Anderson, Blanco, and Prado.
Unfortunately, Frank has yet to call me for my opinion…..
By Wayne
November 3, 2008 3:41 PM | Link to this
Which one of you guys has Frank called today?
By David O'Brien
November 3, 2008 3:42 PM | Link to this
Just got to my hotel. Gonna change and head over to the GM meetings hotel, which is just a few miles away. The living’s easy here in Dana Point, folks. Damn, it’s beautiful….
MizzouBravesFan, where did Bowman say in his mailbag that Peavy “doesn’t want to come here” (to Atlanta). Not what I hear, at all. Yes, he wants to make sure Braves are going to make moves and be competitive with Mets and Phillies. But that’s silly to say he doesn’t want to come here. He put the Braves on his short list of teams he’d accept a trade to, for a reason. And he’s told friends, as recently as this summer, that he’d like to pitch for the Braves…..
I’ll check into the Willy Tavares rumor. It’s really not far-fetched, if Braves want to get a leadoff guy because they don’t believe have one right now or aren’t comfortable with the limited experience of the ones they have. This would not be the “power-hitting OF” they’re seeking folks, so relax on that. This would be another piece, if there’s anything to it. I’ll check after I get over there…
Crap-Wheelie: Hanson has a very good four-seam fastball he usually throws in the 92-94 mph range, plus a sinker, and solid curveball and slider. He’s working on his changeup in Arizona.
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 3, 2008 3:45 PM | Link to this
mbatl—
You’re welcome! Always a pleasure!
Usually after Braves’ loss, I’m over it by the morning…but that depends on why they lost, who made them lose, who they were playing…If it’s a bad loss—and one lost because of something a certain player did, or didn’t do—I don’t get over it till the next game starts…with the exception being July 27. That one took about eight days to “get over”…but it’s TBD how long it will take to forget.
Since I’m not as big a football fan as I am a Braves fann, and since we hardly get to see the games, I’m over the loss by Sunday—unless it’s against the Bulldogs…
; )
I can’t wait to hear the ST broadcasts, either! It is going to be quite different now, though…And I’m really gonna miss Pete doing those West Coast games that I listen to up in my room for a little while after I’ve “gone to bed”.
By kirknga
November 3, 2008 3:45 PM | Link to this
Good point Braveheart. Bringing in Green would hurt our chances of signing Ohman and fortifying the bench.And what about future payroll? Is he one year and out or are the Braves willing to pay the $8-11 million he’ll want to stay.
I still don’t get saying on one hand we must keep a prospect like Hanson because he’s going to be good.But on the other hand trade our prospect who turned into one of the best at his position and is cheap for the next few years in Escobar?
By David O'Brien
November 3, 2008 3:46 PM | Link to this
Oh, and Crap-Wheelie, riding down the freeway with your windows down can’t be nearly as loud as going 85 on the bike with the wind blowing constantly and loudly (unless you wear a full-face helmet, which I don’t).
Never worn earplugs to any concert/show. Loudest bands I’ve seen: Dinosaur Jr., Husker Du, Nirvana.
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 3, 2008 3:47 PM | Link to this
Wayne Unfortunately, Frank has yet to call me for my opinion…
LOL!
By Brian
November 3, 2008 3:48 PM | Link to this
Lee- I agree with you to a point. But, you had to figure, once Wren said Hanson,Heyward are off limits, it would slow down. The only thing that could stop this from happening are the Dodgers. I have a feeling Mr. Torre will push his boss to make it happen. They can do it and so can the Red Sox. The longer it drags out, the less chance we’ll see him with us next year! Then, lets say hello to Lowe or Sheets as our ace…maybe Vasquez. Just my opinion
By brent a.
November 3, 2008 3:49 PM | Link to this
I always think its funny when people don’t even know what the deal is going to be, and they still say they don’t want it done.
Thankfully, we have a huge, national distraction on Tuesday/Wednesday, that will hopefully allow some folks to take their minds off of the Peavy situation.
IMO, he’s coming, and the best time to evaluate the trade will be once we know what pieces are involved.
In my short life, I’ve seen people get so mad over speculated trades, it makes you laugh.
Until a deal is done - you do not know what the deal is, so getting frustrated at Wren is futile, until there is some activity.
By knowitall
November 3, 2008 3:52 PM | Link to this
Blue Magic
I originally thought that it was a bad trade for Detroit because I figured AI was so much older than Billups. Then to my surprise, I find out AI is only one year older(not even a full year). Seems like he’s been around forever and should be much older than 33.
One the court, I don’t really see how it helps Detroit. You could argue that AI and Billups are the same type of player. But I think the key is that Detroit wants to remake their team and AI’s contract is up at the end of the year so it makes since I guess. As for the Nuggets, who knows what they are doing. Billups for 3 more years? Don’t know if I’d taken that contract.
By U Kno Whoop (there it is)
November 3, 2008 3:53 PM | Link to this
Here’s my prospective line-up for next year (and how I propose to get them):
(1) Derek Jeter (SS) (trade for Pete Orr, straight up!)
(2) Evan Longoria (OF) (trade for the Rays’ choice of Jorge Julio, Chief Nokahoma, or 12 cans of Copenhagen, but ONLY ONE of the aforementioned options…we may need the others to get some of the other players)
(3) Chipper Jones (3B) (I guess he’s pretty good, so we should keep him, but if he doesn’t start out hitting .400 again next year, we should definitely unload him at the AllStar break and bring in A-Rod)
(4) Manny Ramirez (OF) (trade for Jeff Francoeur AND Frenchy’s maids)
(5) David Ortiz (OF) (pick him up off of waivers and sign for league minimum)
(6) Brian McCann (C) (we should keep him, I guess, but only if he repudiates McCann’s Cans — not rejects, but repudiates — and breaks a 4.3 40 by Spring Training; otherwise, he’s out and we should get Johnny Bench in a trade for one of the three options not taken by the Rays in the Longoria deal)
(7) Chase Utley (2B) (trade for third option not selected in the Rays’ deal…probably Jorge Julio)
(8) Billy Crystal (1B) (because he loves baseball and this team is going need a sense of humor)
(SP) I like that Tim Lincecum guy (who we could easily get in a trade for John Rocker)
(SP) How bout David Hasselhoff? (as Michael Knight, along with KITT, who will tell him what pitches to throw based on his computerized perception of each hitter’s weakness at the time of pitch)
(SP) Seriously, we should get Cole Hamels (in a trade for Chad Ocho Cinco, who we should get by acquiring the rights to the name Chad Johnson, then selling those rights to Mr. Ocho Cinco, who probably wants it back right about now)
(SP) John Daly (in trade for promise to change stadium name to Hooters Field — then renege on the deal once he gets all liquored up and passes out, er, falls asleep with his eyes open)
(SP) Finally, we should definitely get a ninja.
By Wayne
November 3, 2008 3:54 PM | Link to this
Frank Phone is on, and I am waiting on that call. Hit me back baby!
By Brian
November 3, 2008 3:55 PM | Link to this
DOB- Actually, Bowman did kinda say that he sensed Peavy didn’t feel comfortable coming to the Braves and how he has mentioned he’d love to play for the Dodgers. At least he(Peavy) told a buddy last week all this. I agree, you can’t really take it to heart and Bowman sounded that way too.
By Joe M.
November 3, 2008 3:55 PM | Link to this
Wayne: why Francoeur, Morton, Reyes, Redmond, Lillibridge, Anderson, Blanco or Prado?? None are really good.
People here want Peavy and don’t want to give up anything for him. “No Hanson/Heyward/KJ/Escobar/MyFavoritePlayer/any player who was ever mildly good ever/any player who ever hit .300 for a week”.
Sorry but the Reyes, Lillibridge and Prado for Peavy deal ain’t happening.
By TennesseePaul
November 3, 2008 4:00 PM | Link to this
DOB: Never worn earplugs to any concert/show. Loudest bands I’ve seen: Dinosaur Jr., Husker Du, Nirvana
I’d strongly advise the opposite. About 5 years ago I became partially deaf and once you lose the ability to hear, well, it stinks. I miss it terribly. I now wear ear plugs to all shows. I love music. I know you do to. It isn’t fun knowing I can’t hear all of it now. Only certain frequencies. It just sucks.
By TennesseePaul
November 3, 2008 4:08 PM | Link to this
Peavy,JJJ, Greene and Hanson is not as good as Peavy,JJJ, and Escobar. And even if it is, Peavy,JJJ, Greene and Hanson will like cost more than Peavy,JJJ, and Escobar
Do we have to retain Greene if he is acquired? I thought he’d be under our control and available for future trades? Is there something in his contract which maintains the team acquiring him cannot then trade him?
I don’t know what the Braves are going to do. But I do know the Tigers need a shortstop. I do see Greene does better outside of Petco. Is it impossible that he could be flipped? Maybe not even to the Tigers, but just the idea?
I only ask because I see no point in getting too worked up over potential lineups this early in the offseason. Taveres could be acquired and flipped. Greene as well. The make up of this lineup won’t be clear until christmas maybe. Even then there is room for alterations.
By kdbanks
November 3, 2008 4:09 PM | Link to this
DOB,
Not that you gave any free time, but I’d love to hear from Dayton Moore about what he’s doing with the Rays. Obviously made a big free agent signing each of the past two off seasons, and now spends $10 million in the draft. I like what he’s doing, and always had hope that he’d be the next GM for the Braves but would just be interested to see how a small budget team thinks when entering the off season.
By ncscoots
November 3, 2008 4:09 PM | Link to this
Braveheart, you’re carrying one too many OF in your 3:25. Bobby hasn’t carried five OF in I-dunno-when, and now seems stuck on the idea of 12 pitchers.
That does not detract in the slightest from the well-made point in the post, though.
By Salty
November 3, 2008 4:17 PM | Link to this
U Kno Whoop
Not bad…only two complaints: Chipper’s gettin’ old!
Crystal can’t go to the hole…lousy backhand!
LOL!
By robdawg08
November 3, 2008 4:26 PM | Link to this
Peavy as a one-two punch at the front of the rotation would be nice. But maybe signing two pitchers for the same money (or not a whole lot more) that could win 15 each would be better than getting Peavy to win 20 ? Morton,Campillo,and Jurrgens were impressive at times last year and could be the future along with Hanson. Hampton and Carlyle should be memories.
Can ya’ll remember who told ya’ll that Yunel Escobar was a five tool star that would be like Arod ? I won’t give any hints…
The Braves are solid with Chipper leading the team as usual. Escobar,KJ,McCann,and Kotchman are all producers and are solid players. Jeff Francoeur needs to do much better or be replaced. He reminds me of Jeff Burroughs with all those strikeouts and that anemic batting average plus he also played right field.
Will Soriano be healthy and lockdown as the closer ? Big if…
I would really hate for Smoltz not to return. He has replaced Niekro,Maddux,and Glavine as the pitching face of the Braves franchise (history). How many injuries and surgeries can Smoltz recover from ?
Teixeira is just like Carlos Beltran and J.D. Drew. He wants only the most money from a handful of top teams after a sorry team developed him. Although the Cardinals were pretty good when Drew came up but the Royals were a sorry team when Beltran came up as the Rangers were for Tex.
I’m glad to have loyal players like Chipper and Smoltz that while still getting paid nicely they don’t run to greener (pun intended) pastures.
Go Braves in 2009 !
By Efrim
November 3, 2008 4:34 PM | Link to this
Yikes. Willy Taveras’s career OBP 331. He had a solid 2007 where he posted a 320/367/382 line. Hopefully we would have to give up next to nothing to get him.
By Tom
November 3, 2008 4:36 PM | Link to this
DOB—Just out of curiosity, who is the Braves “delegation” at the meetings in Dana Point? Of course Frank Wren is there, and Bruce Manno, and Nick Cafardo of the Boston Globe mentioned that Jim Fregosi was in attendance. But who all went out? Does Roy Clark go? Kurt Kemp? Who are the people in Wren’s war room?
Also, would you mind asking Wren (if you get a chance) about Junichi Tazawa? Some of the Braves’ people in Japan are reportedly meeting with Tazawa’s manager tomorrow (Tuesday). The Japanese news outlets say Tazawa himself won’t be there, but I’m curious to hear what Wren expects to get out of that meeting. Where does that situation stand, and what do the Braves think of the 22-year-old righty?
By Wayne
November 3, 2008 4:37 PM | Link to this
Joe M It’s called humor, my fiend. As in, Frank hasn’t asked me who I would be willing to deal for Peavy yet….
By DAP
November 3, 2008 4:39 PM | Link to this
taveras does not make sense for the braves. other than stolen bases, both anderson and blanco are better player than him. who get taveras when we have two guys in the same mold, but better?
By Deep Throat
November 3, 2008 4:39 PM | Link to this
But maybe signing two pitchers for the same money
Just no way to get two quality pitchers for 15 million or whatever exactly Peavy will make in 2009.
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 3, 2008 4:43 PM | Link to this
Wayne—
He hasn’t called me…very strange.
By Braveheart
November 3, 2008 4:49 PM | Link to this
Braveheart, you’re carrying one too many OF in your 3:25. Bobby hasn’t carried five OF in I-dunno-when, and now seems stuck on the idea of 12 pitchers.
Yeah, he does seem stuck on 12 - sometimes he is even hellbent on using all 12 of them by the sixth inning of a game we are winning by 13 runs. As for the extra OF, you’re right ….. Diaz likely won’t be here if they get Magglio. And maybe 10paul is right …. maybe if we get Greene, he is then used to get Magglio…. still leaves us short at short ….. where we were getting ++ value for the league minimum ….. the difference between Escobar and Lillibridge at this stage of their careers is about 40 to 50 runs ….. not cool
By robdawg08
November 3, 2008 4:52 PM | Link to this
You left out “Or not a whole lot more” that I said. Not if Scott Boras is their agent… Some players will take less to win or play for a team they like. I remember Andre dawson gave the Chicago Cubs a blank contract and he signed for $1 million. He could have gotten $2 million from several other teams. Chipper,Smoltz,and Andruw all took less money than they could have got on the free agent market to stay Braves (in their last multi-year deals). Of course, Andruw is a Dodger now but my point still resonates.
By Wayne
November 3, 2008 4:56 PM | Link to this
10 Paul Sorry to hear about your hearing loss. I just completed a hearing test last week, and I am still good. From having scarlet fever as a kid, I have tinnitus, and it is getting worse over the past couple of years, almost to a point of being aware of it constantly while awake. Makes it harder to focus when on difficult tasks sometimes.
Enough of that.
Greene would not be a bad replacement SS on the defensive side. He has a good glove. He has been injury prone, and might be one of those guys who needs a fresh start.
I don’t think he will command 8-11 million as someone earlier suggested.
If his hitting returns to his career norms, he would be OK on offense.
I am still on the fence as to whether I would do a deal or not. Depends on who else I thought I could get.
By MizzouBravesFan
November 3, 2008 5:00 PM | Link to this
DOB
This is from Bowman’s mailbag today, maybe he didn’t come right out and say that Peavy didn’t want to come here but that’s the sense I got….
But with his no-trade clause, the ball will always remain in Peavy’s court and, right now, I don’t get the sense he’s comfortable coming to Atlanta. Last week, I wrote about how Peavy told a friend that he was concerned the Braves can’t compete with the Mets and Phillies in the NL East.
Since then, I’ve heard he’s told other friends that he’s more interested in the possibility of being traded to the Dodgers, who have the pieces to make a run toward defending their NL West crown.
That was in a response to a question about a Peavy trade.
Personally I don’t believe it at all….just posted it.
I think there’s ZERO chance Peavy would turn down the chance to come to Atlanta if a trade could be worked out.
By kirknga
November 3, 2008 5:02 PM | Link to this
DAP
I agree with you on Tavares, except the part about Anderson being better.
By ncscoots
November 3, 2008 5:06 PM | Link to this
the difference between Escobar and Lillibridge at this stage of their careers is about 40 to 50 runs
And that, partly, brings us right back to the foundational iffy-ness of the potential 2009 lineup. Everyone but Chipper, among the position players, is still young, young, young. Despite the talent that some of us see in those young players, one cannot reasonably project their near-future performance from the past. ‘Cause they basically ain’t got any.
They might all have breakout years, or they might all stumble, or anything in between. Problem is that the Braves cannot handle “in between”. As now constituted, the team’s young players, ALL of them, have to perform at a high level offensively, or it’s a 700-run squad. Trade Escobar and go with a lesser player, and that thin margin of error gets squeezed even more.
If the team were not quite as inexperienced, if some solid track records offensively could be reasonably counted on, then I might reluctantly part with Escobar for a Peavy. Maybe. Kicking and screaming.
But not with this team. Can’t see it.
By Josh H
November 3, 2008 5:18 PM | Link to this
I have a few thoughts:
1) JS made the Texeira trade. Not Wren. Truth be told with all the tagged on prospects by the end, he probably needed to walk away. But, they thought was to make two runs at the postseason. It didn’t work, it happens. 2) I would rather Gorkys Hernandez goes in a trade over Schafer. The reason is simple, we need a solid CF now, not 2 years from now, and I feel like Jurrjens alone was enough value to have completely fleeced the Tigers in that trade. Gorkys was another piece, that I feel we should now use. 3) If Wren somehow pulls off a trade that sends Escobar to the Padres, flips Greene to Detroit for Magglio, and keeps Hanson, Heyward and Schafer I won’t care if Pete Orr is playing shortstop for the Braves next year. 4) Schafer is showing now that is every bit of the player we all thought him to be. I’d love to see him on the Opening Day team. But this does leave a big line up question. Your opening day outfield is, speculated, Magglio, Schafer, and Francouer. Infield is Chipper, SS (Let’s say Lillibridge, maybe), Kelly Johnson and Casey Kotchman, McCann behind the dish. Who bats lead off. Schafer could be suited for the role, but not just starting out. You want to bat him 7th or 8th and get adjusted to the majors. If Lillibridge plays up to his potential he’s perfect but, again, you want him lower in the order. I guess that leaves Kelly to bat lead off. He did such a great job lower in the order last year that I would hate to have to see him give all that up.
Maybe this:
1) Kelly Johnson 2) Casey Kotchman 3) Chipper Jones 4) Magglio Ordonez 5) Brian McCann 6) Jordan Schafer 7) Jeff Francouer 8) Brent Lillibridge 9) Pitcher
Granted, that post above is complete nonsense, but we are still probably going to have an issue with a leadoff batter next season. I just hope we don’t fill it with Tavares.
Bottom line: I think Wren knows who we can and can’t trade. If we can’t do the deal, so be it.
By crap-wheelie
November 3, 2008 5:20 PM | Link to this
DOB:
They’re your ears. I hope you’re not doing too much damage. You love music so much; it would be a shame if you hurt your hearing. I attribute my hearing loss in my left ear to freeway driving with the window down. That wind and traffic noise are incredibly loud and the time of exposure is high. I can’t imagine the damage from your bike. And yes, I do wear
Thanks for the info on Hanson. Can’t wait to see him pitch for the big club. He and JJ give us a solid pair of youngsters. Add Peavy. Keep Hampton or add another No. 3. Make Campillo the five guy. And then when we get Hudson back, we’ll have a rotation. Now if we have some offense, we could be dangerous.
By Braveheart
November 3, 2008 5:30 PM | Link to this
And that, partly, brings us right back to the foundational iffy-ness of the potential 2009 lineup. Everyone but Chipper, among the position players, is still young, young, young. Despite the talent that some of us see in those young players, one cannot reasonably project their near-future performance from the past. ‘Cause they basically ain’t got any.
Yeah, it’s like Heroes….. when they first learn of their powers, they are wild and unpredictable and can’t control them …… can’t tell who will become and remain a hero or who will become a villain or who will get themselves killed or who will kill a whole mess of folks even when they don’t want to …..
francoeur last season is like peter petrelli right now, the golden boy who’s lost his innocence and who has been totally stripped of all of his powers and abilities, not knowing whose advice and assistance he can trust …… not even his own father …….
Yunel is more like Sylar ……. all the ability one could want ….. looks like a bad dude to many who could destroy the world (or clubhouse) …… but he could be redirected to be a tremendous force for good if he ever learns to suppress “the hunger” to be evil …….
By 18 Wheels of Love
November 3, 2008 5:34 PM | Link to this
Loudest band I’ve seen by far was The Smashing Pumpkins in ‘93….
By StingerSplash
November 3, 2008 5:49 PM | Link to this
While I continue to rue missing Southern Culture on the Skids and the DBTs/Hold Steady shows this past weekend … DOB, I gotta know — how was Nirvana live and in person?
By David O'Brien
November 3, 2008 5:49 PM | Link to this
Braves and Milwaukee appear to be the teams best suited to trade for Peavy, and folks I talk to say they can’t imagine him accepting a trade to Milwaukee. St. Louis thinks they have enough to make an offer to the Padres, but I think they’re kidding themselves.
Dodgers could probably give Padres what they want, but there’s a real doubt among industry types about whether Padres would actually trade him to their arch division rival and be potentially haunted by that so frequently over the next 4-5 years. Padres might just be using Dodgers to get a better deal from Braves or another team.
Braves are NOT going to trade Hanson. Period….
Standing outside talking to a few folks here at the St. Regis when a black Range Rover pulls up. Driving solo, it’s Scott Boras.
And with that, the GM meetings unofficially began.
A few minutes earlier, Cashman walked in looking like any fan off the street. Wearing a T-shirt with some sort of skull-and-crossbones design and flip-flop sandals….
Don’t believe everything you read. I’m told Braves aren’t one of the teams interested in Willy Tavares.
By kirknga
November 3, 2008 5:51 PM | Link to this
Wayne
I’m the one who suggested that Green will cost $8-11 million/year.
If he’s making $6.5 million now, and he’s in his prime years, I don’t see how his salary doesn’t increase into that range. The way the market works in MLB is that someone like Green is going to see an increase in salary. I was being conservative, he very well could get more if some team needs a SS and see’s him as an answer.
Trading away Escobar would be an expensive move. And whatever you pay Green is many times more than what you would have to pay with Escobar.
Green is not going to be some little cheap pickup. And if you let him go, or he decides to play elsewhere, then what? Do we have another Top 5 SS coming up in the system?
By David O'Brien
November 3, 2008 5:51 PM | Link to this
By the way, figure I’m hearing for A.J. is four years and about $18 mill per. For Lowe, maybe three years at $16 mill per.
By Anders
November 3, 2008 6:01 PM | Link to this
Braveheart
In reading your 5:30 post I have to say I didn’t know wether to mock it or be concerned for your well being. I mean, it sounds like something McFann would write.Nothing personal McFann but you being much younger and a female and all. This Frenchy part was downright scary:
francoeur last season is like peter petrelli right now, the golden boy who’s lost his innocence and who has been totally stripped of all of his powers and abilities, not knowing whose advice and assistance he can trust …… not even his own father …….
Perhaps some time away from the blog is in order?
(By now I guess you can tell I went the mocking route.)
By Original Jon
November 3, 2008 6:02 PM | Link to this
Oh man, I cannot wait to see what this team is going to look like after the winter. Its so exciting.
By Hankenstein
November 3, 2008 6:04 PM | Link to this
DOB
By the way, figure I’m hearing for A.J. is four years and about $18 mill per. For Lowe, maybe three years at $16 mill per.
I’ll take both, do you know what aisle Manny and CC are in? Oh yeah, remind me to pick up Tex in the bins up by the registers.
By mbatl
November 3, 2008 6:05 PM | Link to this
kirknga, I feel sure that if we took Greene back in a Peavy deal, he’d be a one year rental… cover SS for a year (he’s pretty good defensively, and might just hit a ton at Turner Field, or maybe not).
Anyway, I think he’d likely be a 1-year player for us - $65. mil, and then hopefully a couple of draft picks in compensation - until either Lilli learns to hit a curveball, or Hicks learns to make more contact, or we go out and find another SS.
By Braveheart
November 3, 2008 6:11 PM | Link to this
Perhaps some time away from the blog is in order?
Anders, LOL, you’re absolutely right, that post deserved all the “Dude, you need to get laid” mocking possible …….
By ppaddy123
November 3, 2008 6:11 PM | Link to this
Me thinks the Braves should go Lowe
By YunelRod
November 3, 2008 6:13 PM | Link to this
Can ya’ll remember who told ya’ll that Yunel Escobar was a five tool star that would be like ArodRobdawg
what a stupid thing to say. I hope it wasn’t you and then you are turning around and actually bragging that you said such a foolish thing? Man, have you no sense at all?
By Bobby's Cox
November 3, 2008 6:14 PM | Link to this
DOB
Nice blog. Thanks for that article on Dr. Andrews.
Also, your last 2 posts have gotten me excited for the offseason. Sounds like it’s gonna be a fun few days, and even better next month at the GM meetings. Try to get to those restaurants I sent you. The Nov schedule for the coach house is out as well.
By Bobby's Cox
November 3, 2008 6:16 PM | Link to this
There is no way Wren deals Escobar. No way.
By justdoit
November 3, 2008 6:17 PM | Link to this
if penny becomes a FA i hope they go for him over lowe - he is younger and cheaper.
By Anders
November 3, 2008 6:19 PM | Link to this
Braveheart
Glad you took it in the spirit it was meant.
Lot’s of Lowe talk on here. The word I’m hearing is he wants to go back to the Red Sox. Great town to play ball in and Francona is the Bobby Cox of the new millenium in how players view him and want to play for him.
By kirknga
November 3, 2008 6:20 PM | Link to this
mbatl, I think you could be right. And I guess I could live with Lilbridge. But you sign a player, he comes through your system and then excels in the bigs…and you trade him? SS is not a position you can just find very good to outstanding players.
Hanson better be really really good. JJ or better good or trading away Escobar will be seen as one of the worst moves in the teams history.
By Anders
November 3, 2008 6:24 PM | Link to this
Just do it
if penny becomes a FA i hope they go for him over lowe - he is younger and cheaper.
And fatter and more injury prone…Swoosh
By Source Of the Nil
November 3, 2008 6:27 PM | Link to this
Don’t believe everything you read. I’m told Braves aren’t one of the teams interested in Willy Tavares
gotta consider the source. wasn’t that rumor from that stupid MLBtraderumors site? They don’t have any sense there at all. I can’t remember ever reading about something from them that actually came out like they said. Like Harden going for a C prospect. dumb as a box of rocks
By Anders
November 3, 2008 6:29 PM | Link to this
Bobby Cox
There is no way Wren deals Escobar. No way.
Not sure what Wren will do and to be fair he’s just s little closer to the situation than me but I wouldn’t give up Escobar.
But what do I know? I still would have tried to trade Chipper to an AL team while he has top value. If the stock market has taught us anything this autumn it’s that it’s better to sell a little early rather than wait for your stock to drop by 50% and give it away. Even a stock that has paid great dividends to you for the last 10 years.
By Goin' Greene
November 3, 2008 6:33 PM | Link to this
I’m the one who suggested that Green will cost $8-11 million/year.
If he’s making $6.5 million now, and he’s in his prime years, I don’t see how his salary doesn’t increase into that rangeKirk
he made 4.5 mil in ‘08 and he’s already signed for ‘09 at 6.5 mil. that’s all they would be on the hook for. not sure where you would have come up with 11 mil or more. do some research man
By Jamie in Richmond
November 3, 2008 6:35 PM | Link to this
David O’Brien
Thanks for the fresh blog, and for clearly stating that Atl wont be trading Hanson. I hope that holds true with Heyward as well.
My question concerns Raul Ibanez. I dont see much chatter linking him with Atl’s radar, but wouldnt he be a great fit in terms of price, consistten run production in LF- and given his age 36- he’s serve as a nice bridge to the Heyward/Gorkys days ahead if Ibanez were to take a 2 or 3 yr deal.
Thoughts on Atl signing Raul Ibanez?
By Lew
November 3, 2008 6:41 PM | Link to this
Sign Lowe and trade for Javier Vasquez and Nick Swisher and be done with it.
By Efrim
November 3, 2008 6:46 PM | Link to this
By the way, figure I’m hearing for A.J. is four years and about $18 mill per. For Lowe, maybe three years at $16 mill per.
That’s actually a little lower than I thought. I was thinking more along the lines of 5 years and 80-90 million for Burnett and 4 years and 60-64 million for Lowe.
By Bobby's Cox
November 3, 2008 6:47 PM | Link to this
Anders,
Agreed (well about Escobar at least)
I’m sure the Braves wouldn’t mind trading a guy that is going to miss 40-60 games a year. BUT, not chipper. No way, no how. I know you’re using him as an example, but it was worth commenting on.
Your comparison to the stock market is unjust. In baseball, players get healthy in the offseason. Their reputation and extent of their injuries play a role in their value. If anything, your analogy would fit early in the baseball season, but teams don’t like to trade early in the year - they like to see how the team they’ve built plays out.
Maybe you and Braveheart should both take the night off. There’s a football game starting soon.
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 3, 2008 6:48 PM | Link to this
Anders I mean, it sounds like something McFann would write.
Well! ; )
By Threadkiller
November 3, 2008 6:49 PM | Link to this
Abders: I totally agree and have been saying the same thing since the season ended! Chipper to the Ray’s where he could DH and relieve Longoria at 3B. If Chipper stays until he retires, we will not get nothing! If Chipper does not put up the same numbers he did this year for the next couple of years, we will be lucky to trade him for a minor league prospect! I’m sorry but baseball is a business
By Efrim
November 3, 2008 6:54 PM | Link to this
And if Lowe is only getting three years, I hope it is the Braves that offer it. 3 years and 48 million? Where do I sign?
By Deep Throat
November 3, 2008 6:57 PM | Link to this
But what do I know? I still would have tried to trade Chipper to an AL team while he has top value. If the stock market has taught us anything this autumn it’s that it’s better to sell a little early rather than wait for your stock to drop by 50% and give it away. Even a stock that has paid great dividends to you for the last 10 years.
Aren’t you an admitted Mets’ fan? Of course you want the Braves to trade Chipper and not get Peavy…’cause then they’d suck even worse than this past season.
Escobar is no A-Rod. What an absurd statement. When Escobar wins multiple MVPs, routinely hits 35+ homeruns per season, gets on-base 40% of the time, slugs for a career .578 percentage in 15 years in the majors; get back to me.
By kirknga
November 3, 2008 6:58 PM | Link to this
Goin’ Green (what is it with people and these pop-up names)
If Green plays beyond 09 he’ll get paid a salary for it. That salary is now $6.5 million. It will increase, not decrease.
Sorry you weren’t able to grasp the concept.
By Deep Throat
November 3, 2008 7:00 PM | Link to this
There is no way Wren deals Escobar. No way.
Famous last words?
It seems there is a way if the reports are to believed. Maybe the Braves would just rather trade Escobar than Hanson or Heyward.
By kirknga
November 3, 2008 7:03 PM | Link to this
*Jamie in Richmond *
For what it’s worth, MLBtraderumors had his name associated with the Braves. I doubt it’s based on any insider knowledge.
I think Ibanez is a perfect fit and about the same production as Ordonez at half the price. Sign him for a few seasons and then turn LF over to Heyward.
By LKS
November 3, 2008 7:06 PM | Link to this
Yeah….Lilli would be an ok ss….maybe if he learned to stop swinging at EVERY pitch that comes his way!!! The FO Can’t expect to be in contention next year with Lilli or Greene as ss. LMAO what a joke.
By Bobby's Cox
November 3, 2008 7:09 PM | Link to this
Deep Throat,
No way.
By Wayne
November 3, 2008 7:10 PM | Link to this
kirknga
What are you smoking, my friend? Greene will never earn that kind of money, unless he discovers some incredible power stroke.
Players don’t just get more money just because another year has passed. There is a bit of a hierarchy when they are in their arb years, but after that, they either sign for a fair market contract, or they are non-tendered. Kinda like what happened to Marcus Giles when he lost the juice edge.
10 million per!!! No chance.
By AdirondackDave
November 3, 2008 7:11 PM | Link to this
DOB - Do you think Heyward is also in the definitely/positively no-trade class along with Hansen? Hope you voted…
By Steve from OH
November 3, 2008 7:12 PM | Link to this
Here’s Jerry Crasnick’s take on the Peavy discussions:
Will the Padres trade pitcher Jake Peavy?
Responses: 13 say Peavy will be traded, 2 say no.
Possible destinations: Atlanta 9, Dodgers 1, St. Louis 1, Cubs 1. The other “yes” voter said the Padres will trade Peavy “to anyone who’ll give them four prospects.”
Padres general manager Kevin Towers seems awfully motivated. He has a legitimate No. 1 starter, with a team that’s not going to contend and a mandate to keep the payroll in line; Jake Peavy could bring several promising young players in return.
“Based on what I’ve seen, it sure sounds like [there’ll be a deal],” said a National League scout. “There’s been quite a bit of smoke.”
The Braves are the popular choice for a number of reasons. They’ve been the most aggressive suitor, and they have enough young talent to satisfy the Padres even after digging deep into the system to acquire Mark Teixeira a year ago. San Diego will have a tough time prying loose pitcher Tommy Hanson, who’s tearing up the Arizona Fall League, or 19-year-old outfield prospect Jason Heyward, but there’s more in Atlanta’s cupboard.
By Deep Throat
November 3, 2008 7:16 PM | Link to this
No way.
No way Wren will trade Escobar or no way you want Escobar traded? Because there is a decent chance those are two different things.
By Goin' Greene
November 3, 2008 7:28 PM | Link to this
Sorry you weren’t able to grasp the concept.Kirk
sorry that you weren’t able to grasp the concept that the Braves would only keep him for the year that is on his contract and nobody could care less about how much he would make after that. How ‘bout surprising everybody and actually posting something that isn’t off the wall but actually makes sense? Give it a shot dude
By Yars
November 3, 2008 7:33 PM | Link to this
The Braves only have a handful of untouchables, such as Chipper, McCann, Jurrjens, Hanson, Heyward, & maybe a couple others. I don’t see Escobar being untouchable. I also won’t be shocked if KJ is traded as well. If it takes an Escobar as part of the package to get Peavy, let’s git-ur-done. Khalil Greene may just need a change of environment.
By BrandonS
November 3, 2008 7:38 PM | Link to this
I have heard alot of talk about Anderson and Schafer in centerfield. The Dodgers have been informed that Juan Pierre wants to be traded. Alot of people would say that he is over rated and over paid but i am not sure of his contract specifics, but he would the Braves with thier lead off problems. And i would venture to say it would not take much to get him. And im sure the dodgers would eat alot of his salary. If the Braves could get him for practicly nothing, they could use him as a one year plug until Schafer, Anderson, and or Gorkyz is ready. Now lets hope the Braves get the Peavy deal done soon so we can consentrate on a slugging left fielder……Thoughts anyone?
By Wayne
November 3, 2008 7:42 PM | Link to this
A great Christmas present for me, that I know I will never get, would be if Scott Boras completely struck out on his FA’s this winter.
Wouldn’t it be hilarious if teams decided to exercise some restraint. Offer a reasonable salary and a reasonable term.
Yeah, I know, I am losing my mind. An old fart can always hope….
DOB That area is some kinda beautiful. For about 4 years in the early 2000’s, I trained sales folks all across the west. It was the best of all worlds, I could go and visit those beautiful places, and enjoy all the beauty of the west: So Cal, Seattle, Portland, Denver, SF, ABQ, Phoenix, Vegas, etc.
Enjoy!
By David O'Brien
November 3, 2008 7:44 PM | Link to this
Braves are legit players in the bidding for Japanese right-hander Junichi Tazawa, who reportedly throws a 95-97 mph fastball and is a free agent who can sign with any major league team without a “posting fee” like the one that Boston paid to sign Dice-K a couple years ago.
A Braves scout met with Tazawa’s team manager in Tokyo this weekend, but tthey are not alone in pursuing him. The Boston Red Sox and Seattle Mariners also are after him, so it’s hard to tell where the price will go.
By Deep Throat
November 3, 2008 7:47 PM | Link to this
Oh God, not Juan Pierre. Make a big salary, can’t get on-base (not a leadoff hitter), can’t play defense, can’t hit for any power. He is an awful player.
Schafer, Anderson, an unready Hernandez and even Blanco and his historically bad-for-the-Braves .309 2008 slugging percentage are ALL better options than Pierre for the 2009 season.
By kirknga
November 3, 2008 7:50 PM | Link to this
Goin’ Greene
How about stating my point correctly before you get all righteous. How about posting in your regular name?
Sorry you feel uneasy after reading my comments, feel free to just keep scrolling by when you see one and you don’t have to bother telling us that you did ok.
The Braves could very well trade a SS that will cost them much less than what it might take to replace him in the immediate future.
IF they keep Green his salary will certainly increase beyond $6.5 million.Peavy’s salary+Green’s=an amount close to what Sabathia will make. If he leaves the Braves don’t have another SS the caliber of Escobar in the system.
That is my point. Perhaps you misunderstood. Perhaps you could bother with saying what part you have disagreement.I’m not going to argue with you unless you can do so. Perhaps you just want to be snarky but I’m not going to trade insults either. I’m here to talk Braves baseball and do so passionately.
By Original Jon
November 3, 2008 7:50 PM | Link to this
Oh man, if Boston and Seattle are interested in Tazawa, Braves have no chance of getting him. You know he would like to go to where he will feel comfortable and thats around his countrymen, Ichiro and Daisuke.
By Efrim
November 3, 2008 7:56 PM | Link to this
Good to hear the Braves are after Tazawa. Basically after a first round pick talent. At least it seems like it.
By nolie
November 3, 2008 8:02 PM | Link to this
Schafer, Anderson, an unready Hernandez and even Blanco and his historically bad-for-the-Braves .309 2008 slugging percentage are ALL better options than Pierre for the 2009 season.Deep Throat
I gotta agree with you there. He is one of the most over-paid players in baseball. Let’s pass on him…and Tavares too
By mbatl
November 3, 2008 8:04 PM | Link to this
Tazawa would be an interesting signing. Obviously, I’ve never seen him pitch. I’ve read that the “97 mph fastball” is overstated, that he really (consistently) throws low to mid-90’s and a great curve ball, but has some odd mechanics that worry some scouts.
Anyway, I’d be glad to see us sign him (it’s only money!), but I wouldn’t count on a 22-year-old who has only pitched in a Japanese amateur league, to step in as a starter for the Braves. I’d guess he’d start out at A or AA, and go from there.
By BravesFanInRockies
November 3, 2008 8:05 PM | Link to this
Pierre — 2009: $10mm; 2010: $10mm; 2011: $8.5mm
NOOOOOOO!!!
Anderson’s better. Blanco’s better. Schafer’s a lot better. Heck, Taveras is better and he’s pretty awful.
By Nuke LaLoosh
November 3, 2008 8:07 PM | Link to this
Goin’ Greene + Kirk- do you two need some more milk for your catfight. Seriously?
By Run Heap Run
November 3, 2008 8:08 PM | Link to this
Cashman wears Ed Hardy? Ha. Might’ve known.
By BravesFanInRockies
November 3, 2008 8:08 PM | Link to this
BTW, the rumor about the Braves’ interest in Tavares was linked from Tracy Ringolsby at the Rocky Mountain News. He’s in the Hall of Fame, so he ain’t chopped liver.
It wouldn’t surprise me if the Rockies brass were the ones suggesting interest by the Braves. The Rox have several more OF I’d be a lot more interested in getting than Willy, however.
By JasonInFL
November 3, 2008 8:09 PM | Link to this
I really think that Towers is going to realize that the Braves are truly the best fit and we will land Peavy sooner rather than later. After that chip falls, we will start exploring how to fill the other need in the rotation and a big bat. Can the Braves land Peavy and Vazquez?
By kirknga
November 3, 2008 8:09 PM | Link to this
Wayne
I don’t smoke soo. How about explaining why it is Green will not see an increase of $1.5-3 million/year.
His production,age and tenure in the league will certainly merit an increased salary. Why wouldn’t they?
Rafel Furcal, who you say was only good for a season or two, went to $13 million/year.
Perhaps someone with access to resources can tell us where he ranks among SS in salary.
And it’s not just about his salary. It’s about the Braves potentially having to allocate more $$ at SS than they would have to if they keep the second year player Escobar. **Braveheart @ 3:25pm did a great job breaking this point down.
By Original Jon
November 3, 2008 8:11 PM | Link to this
If anyone wants to see Tazawa in action, go to YouTube.com and search for Junichi Tazawa. His mechanics look pretty free and easy to me, his fastball and curve are OK, not great, but the thing that worries me is he might have a tendency to hang the curve, and big league hitters would be all over that. We need to find a way to get Yu Darvish.
By Steve from OH
November 3, 2008 8:13 PM | Link to this
Deep Throat:
Greg White slugged .309? Holy crap, that’s bad. You also forgot to add “throws like a girl” to your list of reasons why Pierre sucks, btw.
Would Tazawa be ready for a MLB rotation on opening day next season? He’s only 22 I think. Has he even played a game of pro ball in Japan? I know he played for their “corporate league” (whatever that is), but you do worry about the level of competition, no matter the scouting report. Sounds like he’s got electric stuff but may need a few AAA starts first…
Thoughts?
By Efrim
November 3, 2008 8:14 PM | Link to this
mbatl
I think of it as paying above slot money for a first round draft pick.
By Wayne
November 3, 2008 8:14 PM | Link to this
kirknga
I am perplexed as to why you just assume that an average at best player automatically will get a big raise. You are talking about a guy who might never sniff 6.5 million per year again, unless, he discovers a power stroke. For him to get over 10 million, he would have to offer a lot more than he currently does.
Players don’t just naturally get raises, just because another year passes.
Also, the salary question is the main reason a lot of players are non-tendered, as they might no longer deserve the salary that they are getting.
Puzzled!
By kirknga
November 3, 2008 8:22 PM | Link to this
Wayne
Don’t be all perplexed now! The salary structure in baseball is not one that matches up with many fan’s perception of what players are worth and should be paid.
I can’t believe a serious fan such as yourself is arguing that it is implausible that an “average at best player ” in his prime years would make $8 million or more a year at SS, especially if more than one team is interested in him.
By keylargo
November 3, 2008 8:26 PM | Link to this
A lot has been said about Khalil Greene and his $6.5 mm salary.
I want to make this perfectly clear that I am not advocating sending Escobar to SD as the major piece in a trade for Peavy. But if he were to be sent I don’t think that Khalil Greene would be nearly as bad as most people think. He would be solid if not spectacular defensively and he proved in 2007 that he has a MLB bat.
I know he was bad in 2008, but SD was losing at a rate no one thought they would and Greene did a really stupid thing. He hit the wall literally with his left fist and broke his hand. There were about 60 games remaining.
Then he became embroiled with the Padres management with them trying to withhold 1/3 of his salary since the injury was self inflicted. That is why Greene will be gone from the Padres.
But look at his stats from the last year that was free of turmoil. He had 155 hits, 44 doubles, 3 triples, 27 HR’s, 97 rbi’s and 286 total bases. Do we have a better #6 hitter behind BMac? I think he would be a fit while we see how things work out with him or have a year to find someone else.
By Deep Throat
November 3, 2008 8:27 PM | Link to this
Gregor Blanco’s .309 slugging percentage in 2008 was the worst season slugging percentage for an Atlanta Braves’ outfielder (minimum of 300 PAs) since Barry Bonnell in 1978.
By Wayne
November 3, 2008 8:29 PM | Link to this
kirknga We are posting simultaneously, it seems, so sorry if I seem to be posting awkward answers.
I am not trying to be argumentative, but Khalil Greene is not the in SS class as a hitter as Rafael Furcal. Furcal got the big contract as a free agent, and the Dodgers valued his leadoff and SS capabilities. I am not sure that I ever said he just had two good years.
For my money, he was certainly not worth 13 mil per. Now, with the questionable back, I think his best shot to get comparable salary is to stay in LA.
His production,age and tenure in the league will certainly merit an increased salary. Why wouldn’t they?
While in their arbitration years, guys do get increases, determined by their time and performance. What in Greene’s performance makes you think his salary would increase? To be honest, the Braves would probably non-tender him after next season if they felt he was going to get too much via arbitration. Remember Marcus Giles?
If I am remembering correctly, I think the Padres signed him up to an early contract, when he was still showing promise. After this past year, he could still get better, but that is in question.
I have serious doubts that he will hit enough to be considered for a raise.
I totally understand what Braveheart was saying, but sometimes a team is not as concerned about adding a little salary as they are about adding a hands down ace.
And, to be honest, I think with Lillibridge and Hicks around, we should have a capable SS in a year or two.
SS’s are easier to get than a staff ace.
(I know that many of my friends will be extremely disappointed if the Braves end up moving Escobar, as will I. BUT, you must deal value to get value. AND, you deal from strength.)
That’s all I want to say about that, until Frank gives me a ring to discuss it!
By ncscoots
November 3, 2008 8:30 PM | Link to this
what a stupid thing to say. I hope it wasn’t you and then you are turning around and actually bragging that you said such a foolish thing? Man, have you no sense at all?
The poster’s first encounter with robdawg, I’m guessing, but he’s quick on the uptake.
By Captain Planet
November 3, 2008 8:34 PM | Link to this
I fully endorse going Greene.
Remember Frank Wren: the power is yours!
By Wayne
November 3, 2008 8:37 PM | Link to this
kirknga
I will defer to my friends.
WW, Efrim, Lew, Scoots, BFIR, Steve, mbatl, nolie, key, DOB
Am I so far out in left field on suggesting that Greene’s salary would probably not increase to 8-11 mil per year in 2010? I suggest that before paying anything near that, Greene would be non-tendered.
Otherwise, I am finished with this discussion. I think we need to just agree to disagree on this one Kirk.
Besides, what you and I think doesn’t count, it is what Frank Wren and his army thinks!
:-)
Whaddya think?
By ncscoots
November 3, 2008 8:37 PM | Link to this
You also forgot to add “throws like a girl” to your list of reasons why Pierre sucks, btw.
An insult to girls everywhere, but I know it was unintentional.
Best hope Jenny Finch doesn’t read it, though, LOL.
By mbatl
November 3, 2008 8:37 PM | Link to this
I think of it as paying above slot money for a first round draft pick. - Efrim
Me too… believe me, I’d be glad to sign him (from what I’ve read, he is very talented), and will hope for the best. He may be the next David Price for all I know, though the limited scouting reports I’ve seen aren’t quite that strong.
He’s not proven like Dice-K was… but he’s a lot younger and less expensive too. I just don’t want to see bloggers penciling in the ‘09 rotation as Peavy, Tawaza, JJ, etc… don’t think it’s gonna work that way.
By ncscoots
November 3, 2008 8:45 PM | Link to this
Wayne, a “year or two” isn’t quite my first thought when I think of Brandon Hicks, LOL. Maybe that kid comes around, has an epiphany, and becomes a great player. But, if he does, I’ll be thinking “Invasion Of The Body Snatchers”, ‘cause he’ll be a whole ‘nother ball player from the one he is now.
By kirknga
November 3, 2008 8:49 PM | Link to this
Wayne,I don’t take you as being argumentative. You disagee with more specifics so I can counter that. I just can’t counter snarkiness that some like to present as comment.
I’m glad to see you give some props to Furcal. Seems like you know he was more than a player with just a couple of good years.
Again, you don’t think Green is worth that much money, but the market “overpays” all the time. It’s about what teams are willing to pay, not what you or I, or Mr./Ms. Fann thinks a player is worth.
I believe Green will get a raise, you don’t. We’ll agree to disagree on that it seems.
As far as Lillibridge and, who? Hicks? Uh? Are you telling me that either of them is as good or better than Escobar?
Isn’t Peavy a groundball pitcher? Isn’t our staff mostly groundball pitchers? If yes, then why so eager to get rid of the guy that is 3rd in defense at his position?
And replace him with..Hicks? Really? :)
By Doc Holliday
November 3, 2008 8:52 PM | Link to this
Efrim it wouldnt surprise me either. I really liked the guy last spring, I thought he was gonna make the team. But I think Blanco is a very valuable piece for this team. he didnt hit for average, but I doubt Schafer can beat his OBP. Anderson is also a very good player. I dont think it will be easy for Schafer to beat those 2 guys, but as you said, it wouldnt surprise me.
Talking about the OF, what do you think Braves will do if JF is hitting .250 with 6 HR and 25 RBI by the end of may?
By Doc Holliday
November 3, 2008 8:58 PM | Link to this
Deep Throat I dont really care about Balncos SLG is as long a he has a high OBP., as in fact he did. I understand you want your leadoff hitter to hit some doubles and triples also. But i think that would improve this year along with his BA. Hope he improves his ability to steal bases. Remember that he has good plate discipline, that might help him next year as the league knows he will take the walk.
By THB
November 3, 2008 9:00 PM | Link to this
Doc Holliday-Schafer has very good on-base skills, so I wouldn’t put it past him. He could very well post a .370 OBP next eyar along with a .450 SLG. I would say that he could post a solid .270/.370/.450 along with 15 HR and 20 SB in close to a full year next year along with really great defense. I’m really high on him, great work ethic, good power, good size, good speed, great glove, what’s not to like? The suspension? That’s past him.
By nolie
November 3, 2008 9:02 PM | Link to this
Am I so far out in left field on suggesting that Greene’s salary would probably not increase to 8-11 mil per year in 2010? I suggest that before paying anything near that, Greene would be non-tendered.Wayne
I guess it could if he had a great year in ‘09 for the Braves. However,he is only contracted for one year right now and if the Braves were not happy with his production or with what they thought it would take to sign him, they would have no contractual obligation and as you say, they could just let him go as a FA. If he did have a monster year they would of course have the option of attempting to sign him again. I do not believe that Lillibridge or at this point Hicks are viable MLB SSs, so maybe they would.Most likely as another poster stated they would use him one year and then not care a fig for how much he would collect the following year.
By mbatl
November 3, 2008 9:04 PM | Link to this
I believe Green will get a raise, you don’t. We’ll agree to disagree on that it seems.
Kirk, maybe I’m missing something, but I think Greene is under contract in 2009, and a free agent in 2010.
He’ll be paid $6.5 mil in ‘09 (per contract), and then get whatever another team offers him in 2010. If he stinks in 2009, it may be nothing. If he hits 30 HR and wins a Gold Glove in ‘09, it may be $12 mil a year.
By Doc Holliday
November 3, 2008 9:04 PM | Link to this
If Yunel goes…………Prado is ready to take his job………more than ready. Problem with that is there will be no bat from the bench from IF, once again………the never ending story. Cant we have a deep bench ever?
By David O'Brien
November 3, 2008 9:10 PM | Link to this
Doc Holliday, Prado’s weakest INF position is SS. Don’t think Braves would want to turn that position over to him. 2B, perhaps. But not SS. At least that’s my understanding.
By Efrim
November 3, 2008 9:11 PM | Link to this
kirknga
Greene isn’t going to be making 8-11 million in 2010. Not unless he has a career year offensively and defensively.
Doc Holliday
Braves need to stay the course with Francoeur. Hopefully he gets off to a good start. Honestly though, all bets are probably going to be off after 2009. If he struggles again, I really doubt the Braves will hand him a starting job in 2010. I’m pretty sure everyone will agree with me on that one.
By Steve from OH
November 3, 2008 9:12 PM | Link to this
Apologies to the fine ladies of the blog who were (albeit unintentionally) very understandably insulted by my implication that Juan Pierre could throw as good as them. Let it be known that I, Steve from OH, under no circumstances believe that Juan Pierre has a throwing arm as good as all of yours. That is all.
Efrim, mbatl:
Do either of you think Tazawa would be ready right out of ST? I’d reckon that he would need some time in AAA…
By Doc Holliday
November 3, 2008 9:16 PM | Link to this
THB Dont forget that this ability that you mention is a AAA ability, just ask JF, Langerhans, James and Co if there is a difference between AAA and MLB, Im sure they can tell you a lot about it.
I repeat, Jordan is a personal favorite, but, he has shown nothing in the big, yet, I would still have to give the edge to Blanco, as we speak.
By David O'Brien
November 3, 2008 9:19 PM | Link to this
The denizens should be proud to know we’ve got the original drummer for DBT in our midst. He’s a regular reader of the blog, though he doesn’t post frequently.
By nolie
November 3, 2008 9:21 PM | Link to this
If Yunel goes…………Prado is ready to take his jobDoc
No I don’t think so Doc. he is not a very good SS. Can play in an emergency, but I seriously doubt that they would use him as a starter there.
By David O'Brien
November 3, 2008 9:23 PM | Link to this
Efrim, I wouldn’t be so sure that Tazawa will follow countrymen to Seattle or Boston. Just consider how unconventional and/or independent-thinking he’s been already for letting all the Japanese big-league clubs know he had no interest in pitching for them and instead wanted to come to the U.S. straight out of his country’s Industrial League, which is the step below the bigs over there.
He’s obviously a dude that’s full of self-assurance. Maybe he’s his own man and would rather be the only Japanese player on the Braves, rather than play second-fiddle to Japanese icons with the Sox or Mariners. You never know….
By Doc Holliday
November 3, 2008 9:25 PM | Link to this
Efrim, I will agree with your comment on JF. Theyll him another full year to show up.
DOB, I didnt see Prado play SS in 2008, so that tells me he either didnt play or played very few inning at that position. But I can tell you, that guy has the potential to play SS, he is an amazing athlete. Maybe he is not in Braves plans for SS, but my opinion is, he wouldnt disappoint neither the Braves nor us, fans, if he was asked to play SS. I can recall him making great plays in 2008 at 3B and 2B. Of course SS is another story, but Im sure he could handle the transition. And if Yunel is gone, Im sure they will give it a try, since there is no reason not to.
By kirknga
November 3, 2008 9:26 PM | Link to this
mbatl
I don’t get what you’re saying. Yes Green is a FA that’s why we’re talking about whether his salary will increase or not.
Look, I get the Braves/MIB is currently experiencing a massive breakout of Peavy fever. But somebody’s got to ask some questions about potential issues if we trade certain players.
Escobar’s production is not as easily replaceable as some with Peavy Fever are suggesting.If he’s traded there will be implications to our offense, defense and payroll but some don’t believe that.
I’d like to know if Lillibridge, Hicks, Prado are just as good as Escobar, why aren’t the Padres asking for them?
By Doc Holliday
November 3, 2008 9:27 PM | Link to this
I have to add to my comments today, that Braves need to stay away from Furcal………he is close to what a superstar is, but back problems are not something we want in our roster, at least not me.
By Drummerdad
November 3, 2008 9:33 PM | Link to this
DOB, If it’s still there, Ferrentelli’s used to be a favorite place to eat with the wife from time to time. Absolutely killer Osso Bucco when they’re serving it.
By Efrim
November 3, 2008 9:38 PM | Link to this
DOB
I think that was Original Jon who said that. I think the Braves have as good a chance as any. The all mighty dollar man. That is what is going to bring Tazawa to the Braves.
Steve from OH
I don’t think this kid can go straight to the majors. I gotta think you treat him as a college pitcher coming out of the draft, right? Maybe start him at Myrtle Beach? I don’t know how advanced the kid is, to be honest with you.
By kirknga
November 3, 2008 9:40 PM | Link to this
Efrim
I disagree, I think it’s entirely reasonable that Green will see at least a modest increase in salary.The Braves don’t have to sign him of course, but then who plays SS? The more teams looking for a SS in 2010, the more he’ll make.Escobar will probably make less than $2 million in 2010.
This is a question we haven’t discussed much. It’s like just get Peavy and darn the questions!
I think it is dangerous to downgrade at a critical position on a team wishing to contend. I guess others don’t.
By David O'Brien
November 3, 2008 9:47 PM | Link to this
Efrim, my bad. I must’ve read it wrong. Scrambling and running on fumes. Must … get … food.
By keylargo
November 3, 2008 9:48 PM | Link to this
By kirknga
November 3, 2008 9:26 PM | Link to this
mbatl
I don’t get what you’re saying. Yes Green is a FA that’s why we’re talking about whether his salary will increase or not.
Greene is under contract for 09 to the Padres for $6.5 MM. There is no option year and he will be a FA in 10.
By Doc Holliday
November 3, 2008 9:53 PM | Link to this
kirknga
If the Padres are not asking for Prado, that doesnt means that he aint no good, or not as good as yunel. It just means Padres believe that Yunels future looks brighter that Prados. The answer to your question might be that Lillys bat is not even a AAA bat and Prados ability to play SS is uncertain and clearly not as good as Yunels as we speak. You could also add the fact that the hyper for yunel around the franchise is not the same that for the other guys. Of the 3 guys you mention only Prado is near Yunel as we speak, but i would tell you………if the Padres were looking for a 2B or a 3B and the options were Yunel and Prado……… you could make a case out of that decision. IMO.
By Joe M.
November 3, 2008 9:55 PM | Link to this
Peavy blocks trade to Sox
“DANA POINT, Calif. — Speaking at the General Manager’s Meetings, San Diego GM Kevin Towers reported that pitcher Jake Peavy has approved a trade to five National League teams, and two American League teams, neither one being the Red Sox. The NL teams are the Braves, Astros, Cubs, Dodgers, and Cardinals, while the AL teams are the Yankees and Angels.”
By Brian
November 3, 2008 9:55 PM | Link to this
Well if we get Tawzhwhat?, McCann’s gonna have to learn a little Japanese.
Peavy… where are you?
Greene could turn out like Lowell did for the Sox after he and Beckett were traded in ‘04. If I remember, he had a pretty nasty year for the Marlins in ‘03. Correct me if I’m wrong!
Finally, DOB, thank you for the updates!! Don’t we all remember the days without the Internet? Just had to rely on radio, newspaper, and ESPN. This is a lot better!
By Tom
November 3, 2008 10:00 PM | Link to this
Horrible news on the Peavy trade front. Peavy reportedly agrees to waive his NTC for the Yankees or the Angels. Two big-market teams with deep pockets and glaring holes in their rotations. Can anyone see Sabathia and Peavy in New York together?
The link: http://blogs.weei.com/alexspeier/2008/11/03/peavy-blocks-trade-to-sox/
Say it ain’t so!
By Brian
November 3, 2008 10:00 PM | Link to this
Man, I was WAY off on Lowell! I don’t know what I was thinking! Greene is still ok with me, though
By Dadgum
November 3, 2008 10:00 PM | Link to this
Willy Tavares!!!! There are hundreds of Free Willys out there. Please……
DOB your loudest concerts included Nirvana? Did you ever attend a Deep Purple concert? Guiness had them as the loudest ever recorded. Just curious not that it is a prerequisite or an appetite for destruction. Did I say that.
Rock on….remembering LA Woman by The Doors. Sort of like Sweet Child O’ Mine is to GNR.
By John Fish
November 3, 2008 10:08 PM | Link to this
DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB!!!!!!!! With the news of Peavy willing to go to New York and Wren not wanting to give up eilte prospects do we even have a chance with Peavy anymore
By Deep Throat
November 3, 2008 10:11 PM | Link to this
Hmm…wonder if the Yankees/Angels stuff is legit or just Towers slyly driving up the price.
By keylargo
November 3, 2008 10:11 PM | Link to this
I bet Peavy and Axlerod have a surcharge* in mind if he goes to an AL team.
By Bubdylan
November 3, 2008 10:13 PM | Link to this
Howdy, original drummer for DBT … I bet you go by something else? (DOB’s introduction gets A+ for calmness, but a first name would not have been too sensationalist, I don’t think…)
Honored to have you among us. David’s baseball/music hybrid dynamic is what keeps some of us reading when the baseball…. gets…. so…… slooowwwww.
By N8
November 3, 2008 10:16 PM | Link to this
DOB
While it appears true that Matt was the original drummer for the DBT, the burning questions have yet to be answered…..
What does he think of Whitesnake?
Does he think that Rocco Baldelli would be a good “fit” for the Braves?
Wren can’t possibly add Hansen into the Peavy trade talks can he?
What’s Andruw Jones’ current weight?
Actually the last subject brings a real question.
Been reading on various rumor reports that Andruw would “love” to finish his career in Atlanta. I’m sure the Dodgers would LOVE to dump his dead weight (literally)….
So here lies the question. Would Wren and Bobby consider bringing him back if the Dodgers ate the tab (same way that Boston did for the Dodgers to take Manny off their hands)?
I’m not asking because I want him back in the mix. I’m asking because I know how much Bobby loves him, and if he could be had for little to nothing, would he be a decent guy to add into the (ahem) “competition”…er….I mean….the Jordan watch in CF, and if for nothing else, the 4th outfielder off the bench?
This is a big “what if”, believe me, I know. After all, I was (and still am) one of the biggest Andruw bashers on here. Not because I don’t/didn’t like him. Just because I thought he was about done and was demanding too much money…and as it turns out…..I was right.
But what “IF” he were to get himself in shape (you know…the old motivation for “Coming home’ and playing for Bobby), and the Dodgers would eat his salary (say about 13 million of it), just to rid themselves of him? Would he be a viable option for about 3-5 million bucks to be our LF “with (ahem) power”??
Just a thought.
I think we can do better…and cheaper, but if he wants to come here, and the Dodgers are willing to dump him, I see him coming “home’ on the cheap.
Please shoot me down DOB and tell me I’m frickin’ cracked.
By Nuke LaLoosh
November 3, 2008 10:20 PM | Link to this
Don’t panic too hard, folks. That Yankees and Angels stuff is probably just smoke being created by Towers himself to raise the price and the pressure on the Braves. I’d doubt there’s much, if any, credibility to it. Peavy ain’t going to NY.
By keylargo
November 3, 2008 10:22 PM | Link to this
It’s time to make that push for Hanley Ramirez. Offer Escobar and two prospects not in the top 10.
It may not get accepted but it will give San Diego something to think about.
By Bubdylan
November 3, 2008 10:23 PM | Link to this
If I’m the Yanks, I don’t want to lose a talent package that beats Esco-Schafer-Morton (surely Wren has gone that far) to get Peavy, when I could just throw money at the FA market. But I ain’t the Yankees, so who knows?
Sure takes some of the Peavy Love down a notch that he would sign off on a trade to the Evil Empire, but oh well. There aren’t any heroes playing this game anyways, are there?
By Efrim
November 3, 2008 10:23 PM | Link to this
DOB
No problem man. I could imagine how crazy it is. I bet the GM meetings are going to get crazier as the years go on. The hot stove season is just as exciting to fans as the regular season. Especially fans of teams who didn’t make the playoffs….
Tom
The Yankees and Angels still don’t have as good a farm system as the Braves do. That said, they do have more to offer than any of the Braves competition for Peavy in the NL. Should get really interesting now. I can’t imagine the Yanks getting him though. For them, it might be leverage in the Sabathia talks. But honestly, why would the Yankees trade what little prospects they have when they can just sign free agents with the 80 million that they could spend this offseason. And that is if they don’t increase payroll. Obviously still a player though. Angels have a lot of other pressing needs as well. Resigning Tex. But I have heard they want another starter, so we’ll see.
By Brian
November 3, 2008 10:23 PM | Link to this
I still have faith that we’ll land Peavy, but if NY gets him… how cruel would that be? This might drag out longer than I thought.. NO, I know it will drag on for sure! Why in the world did he approve for the Yanks?
By DAP
November 3, 2008 10:24 PM | Link to this
kirknga I agree with you on Tavares, except the part about Anderson being better.
blanco and anderson are both better than taveras. willy t is an amazing base stealer, but thats it. anderson has a very small sample size in the majors, but his OPS is way better than willys, and he is a very good basestealer as well.
By brian
November 3, 2008 10:25 PM | Link to this
Doc - Prado is not ready to take his job at SS. Prado will be a utility IF. If Yunel is traded I would look for Lillebridge, Diory Hernandez, or Greene from the trade to take Yunel’s spot.
Those that say the Braves cannot contend without Yunel at SS forget Rafael Belliard. If Yunel is not in the lineup then we do need to add bigtime elsewhere. If we add a pitcher like Peavy plus a number 2 starter plus a power hitting LF we would be OK. Obviously I would rather have Yunel but it is not the end of the world should he leave if we get appropriate return.
By brian
November 3, 2008 10:30 PM | Link to this
I still do not think the Yankees or Angels can compete with the Braves package even not including Hanson. If Peavy gets wind that the Braves have made a reasonable offer I feel that he will put pressure on the Padres to keep him or trade him where he really wants to go.
Peavy, #2 starter, Jurrjens, Hanson, Campillo/Hampton. Not a bad start.
By Bubdylan
November 3, 2008 10:31 PM | Link to this
Andruw is pain we don’t need. But if you wanted to go from tragedy to comedy, how about this strike-out tandem:
Frenchy Greene Andruw
I’m not sure Santana could stop himself from giggling on the mound.
By Braveheart
November 3, 2008 10:41 PM | Link to this
GREG MADDUX ‘ALMOST CERTAIN’ TO RETIRE
DANA POINT, Calif. — Greg Maddux, the eighth winningest pitcher in major league history, is almost certain to retire, his agent, Scott Boras, said tonight. “He hasn’t made a final decision, but for now it is doubtful he will play (any longer),” Boras said at the GM Meetings. “As it stands now, he is not going to play.” Maddux is a certain Hall of Famer. He won four Cy Young awards in a row from 1992-95. Maddux is 355-227. He began last season with the Padres and finished up working mainly out of the pen for the NL West champion Dodgers. Only Warren Spahn with 367 wins has more victories in what is considered the live ball period of baseball, since 1920, than Maddux.
http://www.nypost.com/seven/11032008/sports/moresports/gregmadduxcertaintoretire_136749.htm
By Joe M.
November 3, 2008 10:43 PM | Link to this
It’s time to make that push for Hanley Ramirez. Offer Escobar and two prospects not in the top 10.
That push? You act as if the Braves were ever considering that trade suggestion on this blog.
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
November 3, 2008 10:43 PM | Link to this
Braveheart, your post at 2:33 said it all.
Then we can safely assume that Hansen, Escobar, Heyward, Freeman and Schafer are probably untouchable. I would include Morton in that group, but Wren can’t be taking all of his best talent off the table.
I just wanted to say this about Jake Peavy. I really believe his elbow is about to explode, I do. But, Atlanta needs an Ace in the hole come time for the playoffs. Peavy is an acceptable gamble.
Nevertheless, I would still make this trade if the right value is attributed. If he can be had for the next four to five years, then it’s worth the gamble that the Braves could add enough talent in that time period in order to make a run at the World Series.
Peavy is more of an injury risk than most pitchers. The thing is, you cannot play the game without putting your cards on the table at some point. We cannot win without first betting, then rolling the dice. Losing is always a risk, but then again, winning isn’t free.
By brian
November 3, 2008 10:45 PM | Link to this
I would take Anderson any day over Tavares.
By kirknga
November 3, 2008 10:51 PM | Link to this
DAP
Like I said, on the first pitch, or 1-0, or 2-0, Anderson does well. Any other count and he’s close to an automatic out.
Tavares lead the league in steals, that’s something positive.
Remember he was in the Astros organization the same time as Tavares and couldn’t win the job.So when he had the chance, he couldn’t take over. Head to head he wasn’t better than Tavares.
I don’t want either of them as the starting CF. But DOB has set us straight on Tavaresb so nothing to worry about thankfully.
By TennesseePaul
November 3, 2008 10:53 PM | Link to this
I would think Tyler Flowers would at least interest the Padres. Nick Hundley wasn’t that impressive. They talk big about him. At any rate the Bowman version of the Padres spins him in a positive light:
I think the Padres might argue with you that they don’t already have a frontline catcher in rookie Nick Hundley, who certainly impressed the team with the way he handled the position in the final three months of the regular season. Rodriguez will turn 38 later this month and hasn’t played in more than 83 games in each of the last two seasons. At this point, San Diego wants to see a lot of Hundley. I do expect the Padres to bring in a veteran catcher to back up Hundley, though I highly doubt it would be Rodriguez.
-Cory Brock
But this is what he did: .237/.278/.359 over 60 games.
And his minor league numbers don’t offer much promise: .253/.336/.451
On the other hand, in the same time in the minors as Hundley, Tyler Flowers has produced the following: .291/.400/.488
Of course they must be arguing the defensive side. But I gotta think they’d suffer a glove for a bat if it is as big a difference as this would appear.
By Steve from OH
November 3, 2008 10:54 PM | Link to this
Braveheart:
Man, that sucks. Doggie was always my favorite player, even after he left the Braves. I’ll be watching in 5 years when he gives his HOF induction speech. Hell of a career Mad Dog, hell of a career. Enjoy the retirement, man.
JoeM:
Yeah, no way in heck Hanley is a Brave in ‘09. If he is, I’ll eat my size 11 Wolverines, steel toes and all.
By Ron in mobile
November 3, 2008 10:56 PM | Link to this
Dont get me wrong here guys. I have two Andruw Jones jerseys hangin up in my closet. He is one of my top five all-time favorite players. But his time has passed.
I hate to quote a lame movie here, but here goes. In rookie of the year Gary Busey says “Never take this game for granted, beacause one morning you wake up and your gift is gone”
For our boy Andruw that morning came some time in April 07. He should take the 36 mil he stole from the dodgers and go home!
I feel sick now
By TennesseePaul
November 3, 2008 11:02 PM | Link to this
sign off on a trade to the Evil Empire
He’d squeeze them for all they are worth. A trade to such a team, to me any way, would seem to imply he expects that team to rework or offer an additional contract bringing years and value up increasingly. That would seem to limit the Peavy Love from those teams… Towers could just be ruffling his feathers. So long as Wren doesn’t budge I could care less. I’d rather see Hanson in the Atlanta rotation than in the Padres rotation.
By stynes
November 3, 2008 11:16 PM | Link to this
Whether Peavy approved the trade or not… what in the world would NY have to give up? Chamberlain and Hughes? The Yankees aren’t going to trade their next batch of young studs either and they don’t have a whole lot else in the minors behind those guys that have just come up, to my recollection. Like what has been mentioned of other clubs in the NL, the Yankees just don’t have the pieces to deal.
By matt
November 3, 2008 11:23 PM | Link to this
N8,
I liked Whitesnake when I was, like, 13.
Rocco? No, thanks. I mean, when he’s healthy, he seems to be pretty good, but all we need is another player that’s gonna be out half the year.
No way I think Hansen should be traded for anyone. I haven’t seen him pitch, but from everything I’ve read about him, sounds like he’s in the rotation next year. My prediction? Peavy, Lowe/Burnett/Dempster, JJ, Hampton, Hansen.
Hmm, Andruw’s weight? 243? I really have no idea.
It’s great to get in discussion with you guys, I’ve read the blog for a couple of years now, hardly ever post. I’m not quite the stats expert that some on the blog are, but I’ve been a Braves fan all my life. I don’t have time to read every post, but I keep up as much as I can.
I’m as excited as anyone about the offseason, hope we hear some good news soon.
By Doc Holliday
November 3, 2008 11:27 PM | Link to this
brian, KJ was a LF, he made a pretty smooth transition to 2B, not perfect but smooth, what makes you think Prado wouldnt be able to do the same at SS?, he is a better athlete than KJ.
And, 2nd point………..do you really think Hanson will start the season in the majors? I dont think that would be a good idea, not for him, nor for the team. I might be wrong, but thats only a hunch.
By Barack Hussein Obama
November 3, 2008 11:27 PM | Link to this
Just want to remind all of you to get out and vote for me tomorrow!
God bless you! And God bless America!
By Tony
November 3, 2008 11:36 PM | Link to this
“Like what has been mentioned of other clubs in the NL, the Yankees just don’t have the pieces to deal.”
Thats simply not true, they have all the pieces needed to land Peavy; the question is will the use them. Cano who once contended for a batting title is a huge trading chip along with Hughes. The yankees have really good depth at the catchers position but they are a few years away. I don’t understand why everyone here is so afraid and has the attitude “he wolnt end up in NY”. Who cares this is a game that we all like to watch not anything worth getting worked up about. Good luck, god knows you guys need him more than the yankees but where ever he goes, remeber that you will never really know what went on behind the scenes. The cubs could be close to geting him for all we know; so try to worry about the things you have control over and get some sleep.
By Doc Holliday
November 3, 2008 11:43 PM | Link to this
What about a trade for any of those young pitchers in KC=??? I could be done.
By Doc Holliday
November 3, 2008 11:45 PM | Link to this
I agree with Tony, Yankees have the pieces, but I dont think they are moving them. They know they are getting thinner and thinner everytime.
By John "War Hero" McCain
November 3, 2008 11:46 PM | Link to this
Hello my friends!
VOTE, VOTE, VOTE
GOD BLESS YOU AND GOD BLESS AMERICA!
By ccrider
November 3, 2008 11:49 PM | Link to this
Everyone remember the name Matt Young, if the Braves use Jordan Schafer in the Peavy trade. Played at AA, good OBP, stole 30 bases, better defender than Blanco, puts the ball in play, does the little things well: bunting, moving runners over. He’s a little older; 26, but might be in contention to hold the fort until Gorky would be ready. He is currently playing very well in the Arizona Fall League.
By Daybed Wagmoe
November 3, 2008 11:50 PM | Link to this
matt — cool to have you on here, friendo. I’m a Truckers fan and am going to see them when they come up to NYC this Thursday.
For everyone to enjoy: This is probably one of the best beer commercials I’ve ever seen.
And for those Maddux fans here, every now and then I’ll pull up his stat page on baseball-reference.com and just stare in amazement at his stats. I’d recommend doing it whenever you have some time to kill. For example: three straight seasons of 260+ IP; 7 straight seasons of a sub-3.00 era; 4 consecutive seasons of 31 or fewer walks. And he was on the disabled list ONCE in his career. There all sorts of other amazing feats he accomplished in his career.
Man, that guy was simply amazing. He’s not the strikeout artist that Randy Johnson was, he was just a different pitcher. But if you compare their respective 4-year terms as Cy Young, I think you’d have to give the nod to Maddux. Johnson had a better win-loss record for those 4 years (and more Ks), but Maddux has him beat for ERA, WHIP and walks. Actually, maybe Johnson’s resume would look better. I’m not sure (perhaps later I’ll chart stats for both), but either way, both were absolutely tremendous and something I doubt we’ll ever see again. (At least not until Tommy Hanson comes on the scene.)
If Maddux is actually retiring, that’s a bittersweet day for baseball.
By Mike in LA
November 3, 2008 11:51 PM | Link to this
DOB Any idea what kind of money Tazawa is looking for?
By Bubdylan
November 3, 2008 11:52 PM | Link to this
“I don’t understand why everyone here is so afraid and has the attitude “he wolnt end up in NY”. Who cares this is a game that we all like to watch not anything worth getting worked up about.”
Tony, you sound like you’re getting a little worked up about people getting a little worked up. I mean… at least we’re talking about the Peavy trade… and not talking about people talking about the Peavy trade. Know what I mean?
By Wayne
November 3, 2008 11:54 PM | Link to this
Mad Dog retiring? Will Tommy G be next?
N8 I have thought the same things about Andruw, with the Dodgers picking up a significant portion of his salary.
Here is the rub. Put Andruw and Bobby Cox together, and maybe he plays 150 games, bats too high in the lineup, and frustrates us for years.
But then again, it could work. He could lose some weight, rediscover his swing, and be productive again.
Most likely is he would flounder, and we could cut his fat azz in April!!
I have killed a lot of snakes in my life, but never a whitesnake.
Hey, N8, I played rhythm guitar for the band “Grandpa Porter and the Porter Potties” back in ‘01. We played to a packed house (church gym) for a one night stand, but didn’t record an album. We are on a VHS tape hidden around here somewhere. Matt, with my Gibson ES175D, that was my one and only venture as a “rock star”.
:-)
By Wayne
November 4, 2008 12:01 AM | Link to this
ccrider My impression of Young all along is that he is a career minor leaguer, but he is doing well in the AFL. Who knows?
Doc H Prado has minimal range. That can be hidden much easier at second or third, but is glaring at shortstop. He is an OK second baseman, not much better than KJ, if any better with the glove.
Personally, I think the best thing the Braves could do to get the Padres off the dime with Peavy is to get a couple of other rumors going: Escobar and Morton to SF for Matt Cain. Or, Escobar and Morton to KC for Greinke. Or KJ and Morton to the Angels for Jered Weaver.
Light a fire under Towers arse.
By richbrave
November 4, 2008 12:06 AM | Link to this
Look for under the radar arms like JUIRJENS Mr. WREN and lets build toward a championship instead of trying to get there with 3 established FA’s and super-sized contracts.
By richbrave
November 4, 2008 12:08 AM | Link to this
Mr. OBAMA:
Already did my man. Me and 27 others in my family. See you in the WHITE HOUSE.
By Doc Holliday
November 4, 2008 12:15 AM | Link to this
I´ll have to agree with you on the rumors to SF and KC (as examples) Wayne. And on your comment on Prado about his range. This is going to be interesting and fun. Ill stand to my position………Prado will make some eyes pop out, he just need to be trusted.
By uga-brave
November 4, 2008 12:15 AM | Link to this
speaking of prospects did anyone notice that dan meyer the centerpiece of the tim hudson trade was claimed by the marlins today.
prospects are just that prospects. every team has them. some work out, some have injuries and never reach their potential, and some are overated by the scouts who found them.
you got to part with some of them if you want quality in return.
braves need to get peavy or burnett. they have to have a front of the rotation guy going into next season.
By OKGA
November 4, 2008 12:16 AM | Link to this
They really should be able to get a deal for Peavy done without Hanson. Obviously the Braves have the prospects AND the MLB ready players. Regardless, I do think Wren has got to bring Peavy to Atlanta. I’m hoping for good news sometime this week.
By Doc Holliday
November 4, 2008 12:18 AM | Link to this
The Yankees have been calling around aggressively, even inquiring on Roy Oswalt and Lance Berkman. They’re not available.
The Mets are said to be eyeing Raul Ibanez for left field.
According to Dave van Dyck of the Chicago Tribune, the Mets are interested in White Sox pitcher Javier Vazquez.
By Doc Holliday
November 4, 2008 12:21 AM | Link to this
Waybe Ill beg you not to mention AJ around, it makes me sick. I keep having nightmares about him wearing braves uni ever again.
By David O'Brien
November 4, 2008 12:25 AM | Link to this
This much I’m pretty certain of: Vazquez and Garland do not rate high on the Braves’ board.
By truewind
November 4, 2008 12:29 AM | Link to this
DOB: I appreciate your music info as much as I do your Braves blogging. Have you been to www.thesixtyone.com? Lots of new music. Try Ox’s cover of Cheap Trick’s Surrender for instance. You can searchbox it on site. Cheers.
By N Nine
November 4, 2008 12:35 AM | Link to this
Wrens a smart guy. Glad those two are not high on the board!
By Bobby's Cox
November 4, 2008 12:41 AM | Link to this
Peavy is more of an injury risk than most pitchers. The thing is, you cannot play the game without putting your cards on the table at some point. Coach
Seriously….did anyone else read the article DOB posted on the blog about Dr. Andrews, the Red Sox, & how the Red Sox have a competitive advantage by using science to determine if a guy is more likely to be headed towards TJ?
If I’m Wren and the Braves, I hire a team of doctors and scientists and study the arm angles, arm speed, etc…. of pitchers past and present who have had arm problems. If the Red Sox can “play the game without putting your cards on the table at some point” then other teams can learn to do the same.
By Chop Chop
November 4, 2008 12:47 AM | Link to this
Nope. Still not feeling the hunger pangs for the hot stove just yet…
I figured I’d post something just to keep my status as an OG. I think the Braves are going to have to give up a lot to get Peavy. If Wren balks at trading a top prospect like Hanson for an ace pitcher on the (relative) cheap, one has to wonder what our GM’s major malfunction is. If what we are being led to believe is true, the Braves have plenty of strong prospects. We just reload, baby!
Um, right?
By kirknga
November 4, 2008 1:04 AM | Link to this
Yes, thank goodness that Garland and Vazquez aren’t seen as upgrades to our rotation.
ChopChop it’s been awhile, or seems like it.
I’m afraid the answer to your question would be, “no, not right”. Most here say no to Hanson in a trade and DOB assured us that he’s not going to be traded. Looks like Escobar is the centerpiece.
I agree with what you said , but looks like it’s not the way things will go down.
By ccrider
November 4, 2008 1:07 AM | Link to this
Wayne, You may be right about Matt Young being a career minor leaguer, but then again he could be our Victorino(Without the dirty play). The Braves brass put him in the Arizona Fall League with Hanson, Flowers, Medlin and Marek. That is pretty good company, all prospects with a good chance of either contributing to the Braves season next year or being included in the trade for Peavy or a big bat. Maybe, Young was put there to see how he compared to the other best prospects and he has done quite well for himself! Could make Schafer be in play for Peavy, although I hope it can be done without him.
By Wayne
November 4, 2008 1:27 AM | Link to this
Doc We’ll just have to agree to disagree on Prado’s range. I really like Prado. I just think if he were a SS prospect, we would have seen him over there a lot more than we have already.
What is the rub on Vazquez, besides the fact that he is thought of as not being a big game pitcher?
Dude has always been pretty solid. Good mid rotation guy. Some might say, we need a 1 and a 2 (which we do!), but right now we are going with a 3 and 4 5’s. Anything would help.
DOB Any rumblings that we might be making some other play for another top rotation guy (Cain, Greinke, sorts)? Do you think that would be a good thing to do to send a signal to the Padres that Peavy isn’t the only game in town?
Maybe that’s not necessary. Maybe Wren has made that quite clear. I guess we will find out when we find out…..
Lefty middle relievers I see that Trever Miller was released by the Rays today. The last few years, we have had great success in getting a guy on the cheap, who was in a contract year (Mahay and Ohman).
As much as I liked both Mahay and Ohman, it looks like a good plan from Wren’s perspective. Could Miller or someone like him be that guy in 2009?
By Wayne
November 4, 2008 1:42 AM | Link to this
kirk
Cut and paste this link to take a look at Brandon Hicks. Lots of K’s, but supposedly is a good fielding SS. He has potential…
http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Brandon%20Hicks&pos=&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=518794
By The Goche
November 4, 2008 1:45 AM | Link to this
If we managed to sign Tazawa I almost don’t care what we do this off-season.
I doubt he’d start in the majors but who knows, anyway, just think long term.
Think about that future possible even without Peavy and beyond Hudson, so like 2012 (obviously best case scenario) rotation: Teheran Hanson Tazawa Jurrjens Rohrbough/Medlen/Richmond/Locke/etc.
But anyway, here is my dream offseason, and I tried to be as realistic as possible (each individual thing seems at least legitimately possible, even if the whole collection seems unlikely):
Trade for Peavy and Greene with Escobar, and two non-Hanson, Teheran or Jurrjens pitchers and one of Flowers/Schafer/Hernandez.
To me that is beyond generous as an offer. It may not be exactly what they want, but it’s tons of value. Two solid pitching prospects and they could choose Morton who is a major league or Medlen who seems to be nearing majors ready or Rohrbough with all that potential. Plus major league SS, and a great C or CF prospect.
That trade gives two solid-to-good pitchers and fills 2 up the middle spots in the organization. All with legit prospects, all close to the majors. Shoot, that may be TOO generous, but I don’t see how they could pass that up. So it doesn’t seem impossible that to get it done without Hanson or Heyward.
Then sign Tazawa and Paul Byrd (Tazawa probably will start in the minors by my best guess, so Byrd fills the gap). Tazawa should definitely be a priority if we don’t get Peavy or a solid #1 or 2 type, or if we have to include Hanson in the deal.
And Adam Dunn or Pat Burrell. I personally like Dunn individually more and I think he will go for less than his OBP and power are worth, but with Burrell being a righty that might make the difference. If we do manage to get Peavy and Tazawa, I’d be cool with Raul Ibanez who would be a little cheaper than Dunn or Burrell.
I would also resign Ohman.
I doubt that all of these could get done unless the Braves just decide to go a little nuts. But these represent my best ideas for each individual question.
Maybe a possible complete scenario would be: 1. Trade for Peavy, sign Tazawa, sign Ibanez and Ohman. or 2. Sign Tazawa, Byrd. Dunn and Ohman.
By Wayne
November 4, 2008 1:45 AM | Link to this
DOB Rain on the forecast for tomorrow at Dana Point! That sucks.
PC on Wednesday, and Sunny and 77 on Thursday. (not sure when you are leaving for AZ)
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
November 4, 2008 1:50 AM | Link to this
Here is a link to the 22 year old right handed Japanese pitcher the Braves are after. It includes a ten minute youtube video of him pitching.
Junichi Tazawa
By Wayne
November 4, 2008 1:54 AM | Link to this
Every time I read or hear that “Scott Boras wants to let the market develop” for one of his players, it makes me want to throw-up.
What is the hold up on AJ Burnett? His agent said he would opt out before the meetings began this week.
The Mets think they could get Vazquez for very little. I think we should pick him up to keep him out of NY.
Offer Prado and Blaine Boyer.
By Wayne
November 4, 2008 2:00 AM | Link to this
Goche I like your offer for Peavy, but I would sure love to keep Schafer. Offer them Escobar, Morton, Flowers or Goryks, and Rohrbough or Locke.
4 players should get it done, with Escobar’s upside, and with Morton’s potential.
Dang it is hard for me to give up these youngsters.
“Prospect Hugger” fits well with me…
I think we might all be surprised with the OF pickup. That’s the Braves way.
By kirknga
November 4, 2008 2:13 AM | Link to this
I’ll check that out Wayne. It’s not just replacing Escobar’s offense, but his defense as well.
I also like his fire and passion.
By kirknga
November 4, 2008 2:31 AM | Link to this
Well it looks like Hicks has some pop, but otherwise there’s not much there offensively.
I’m not trading Prado and Boyer for Vazquez, no way.Dude gives up the longball big time. Maybe if the ChiSox were willing to pay most of his salary I would trade Prado, but not Boyer.
What is it with loving these guys as prospects, but as soon as they get to the majors you want to trade them away? $11.5 million for a guy with an ERA closer to 5 than 4? No thanks.
We’ve got to hold on to the guys we develop or it really is pointless to protect them so when they are in the minors.
By Wayne
November 4, 2008 2:36 AM | Link to this
kirk You’ll get no argument from me that Escobar is the real deal, on both offense and defense. I loved it when he stole second base, twice, with the pitcher holding the ball!
The more I think about it, I would rather keep all my youngsters!! Screw Peavy!
Make a play for Vazquez, go after one of the free agents, Lowe, Dempster, Looper, Wolfe, Burnett. If not punt and get Byrd or Edwin Jackson of the Rays.
Now, Ibanez wouldn’t be my first choice, but he sure can hit. If the Red Sox got Holliday, would they deal Bay for Flowers and some change? Probably not…
Has anybody looked at the kid in St Louis, Joe Mather??? He looks like he has some pop; 8 HR’s in 133 AB’s. The Cards have a lot of good OF’ers. He is pretty low on their depth chart (Rasmus, Ludwick, Ankiel, Schumaker, Duncan, Barton).
Would he be a good utility type, as he has played some first and third??
I like Norton’s bat, but with a 13 man roster (minus pitchers), it is hard to carry strictly a PH’er.
Getting late my friends…..
By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)
November 4, 2008 2:37 AM | Link to this
Escobar is going nowhere, fast. When Frank Wren says he isn’t trading top prospects for Jake Peavy, I translate that to mean Hanson, Morton, Heyward and Schafer are nearly untouchable. they are the cream of the crop.
Freeman 1B, Flowers C, Hernandez CF, Reyes LHP and others are expendable.
By jed
November 4, 2008 2:43 AM | Link to this
i’m not the least bit excited about pat burrell. burrell may be one of the worst outfielders i’ve seen. no speed whatsoever and covers no ground out there. add to that the fact that he’s notorious for prolonged slumps and doesnt hit for any sort of average. if we sign him, i’ll bet he comes in here, hits .240/30/80 and is a defensive liability. we’ve got to get someone better than that.
By Wayne
November 4, 2008 2:50 AM | Link to this
kirk
In 11 seasons (counting ALL his years), this pitcher has 2270 innings, 2270 hits. He has stuck out 2015 batters while walking only 604. He has a career ERA of 4.32, toiling more in the AL than the NL.
ERA is NOT closer to 5 than 4.
And we are going to bid on guys at 16-18+ million per year, who are marginally better (Lowe/Burnett/Dempster). Also, some others that are NOT nearly as good, (Looper, Byrd) who will get probably 7-10 million.
Hey, Vazquez is not Cy Young, but go take a closer look at his numbers. Consistently strong arm, with over 200 innings averaged in an 11 year career. In today’s market, 11.5 million is not that much for this guy.
I don’t like trading too many of our guys, but Prado is not a key player. If I can get a 200+ inning starter that will keep me in 3 out of 4 games, Prado is a goner.
Right now, we have too many question marks on our young pitchers. Personally, I would love to keep them all, and develop them, but that is not the Braves way.
They play every year to win, and sometimes their trades reflect that (Tex, Drew, etc). So, I am just trying to adjust my tree hugging mentality to my team’s mentality.
That is the ONLY reason I would even half way consider trading a guy like Escobar.
In reality, I would prefer Cain or Greinke over Peavy, as I would hope I could get them for more of a Dan Haren package (quantity over quality).
I gotta run for sure (unless I think of something else). It’s been good. We all have the same overall goal, success for our Braves!
Fan since 1966! Eddie Mathews, Hank Aaron, Joe Torre, Phil Neikro, Clete Boyer, Woody Woodward…… gotta love it!
By kirknga
November 4, 2008 2:52 AM | Link to this
Yes, let’s sign a FA and then make a trade for a second starter maybe a tier lower than an ace and not give up all the young players. Lets commit to a core and spend money to give them so good to outstanding starting pitching.
I’m still pushing for Duchscherer.
By N Nine
November 4, 2008 3:02 AM | Link to this
me too kirknga!!
By kirknga
November 4, 2008 3:24 AM | Link to this
Vazquez’s ERA the past 5 seasons, 3 were closer to 5 than 4. Since he left the Expos he’s not been the same pitcher.
I think DOB has clued us in on how the Braves rank him and Garland.
By Coochie coo
November 4, 2008 3:35 AM | Link to this
I translate that to mean Hanson, Morton, Heyward and Schafer are nearly untouchable. they are the cream of the crop.Coach
you’re going to look like a damn fool again when Morton amounts to next to nothing. Oh well, why should you start getting anything right at this late date? Roll that hole Cooch
By TheAntiMe
November 4, 2008 5:30 AM | Link to this
You’ve got to like the Braves chances of getting Jake Peavy. It’s so obvious that the Padres GM has been commanded that Jake must go. Kevin Towers has not even tried to do the “play it cool” routine to try and get the most generous haul from other clubs.
IMO, it would not break my heart to see Captain HGH (Jordan Schafer) as the Braves main contribution to a trade for Peavy. If they don’t manage to acquire Big Jake, then Burnett or Lowe would look pretty good with a tomahawk across their chest next season.
Although not so high profile, the Braves still have some other needs. I would really hope to see a couple of decent middle relievers and an effective set-up man join the Braves bullpen for next season. If not, it could get pretty ugly next season, sooner rather than later.
In any event, it looks like this should be an interesting offseason all around MLB.
By JasonInFL (formerly ME)
November 4, 2008 6:20 AM | Link to this
Peavy allowing Towers to talk to the Angles and Yanks does throw a little wrinkle into all of this. But, the Angles are historically unwilling to give up their prospects for anyone, and to be honest; the Yanks do not have the major league ready talent that Towers is seeking. Hughes’ stock has fallen dramatically, and I doubt they trade Cano. But, you never know. I still think that if the Braves need to include Shafer to land Peavy, we do it in a second. We have other OF prospects, and even if we didn’t; it is easier to find one than a legit #1 Ace, Cy Young award winning 27 year old good ‘ol boy from the South who grew up a Braves fan.
By ncscoots
November 4, 2008 6:28 AM | Link to this
Poor Tim Hudson. With all the trade-for-this-guy, sign-that-guy posts, he’s been totally forgotten. He IS still alive and under contract. Assuming he makes the recovery from surgery with no ill effects, he’s still a top-tier pitcher. What do some of you have in mind for him? Pick up two big-money pitching contracts and Hudson’s option for 2010, and there’s suddenly $40MM+ in three guys.
I’d hate to see a contract for a second pitcher create a scenario in which Hudson isn’t resigned in the future. You can say “just trade pitcher B” all you want, but that’s no given.
Something to consider when putting together your offseason proposals.
By DHD
November 4, 2008 6:52 AM | Link to this
“Just want to remind all of you to get out and vote for me tomorrow!”
I agree, Mr Obama…get out there and vote TOMORROW.
By TheAntiMe
November 4, 2008 7:13 AM | Link to this
I agree, ncscoots, with your sentiments regarding Tim Hudson. Somehow, I have a feeling that Huddy isn’t going to be forgotten by the Bravos.
When I consider the starting pitching-rich history of the Braves, I have to believe that The Braves would probably re-sign Tim Hudson for the next half-dozen years if it could somehow be practically arranged.
With the success rate of pitchers returning from his type of injury these days, I think that he will be back to his winning ways again by the 2010 season at the latest.
By proeye
November 4, 2008 8:27 AM | Link to this
I say wait on Peavy unless we pick him up for scrubs. Why risk anything? The Braves aren’t going anywhere in 2009 and maybe not even 2010. But I suppose Liberty wants to field a team with big names to bring in the fans. That would be the only reason to bring in a guy like Peavy right now. We have a heck of a lot more needs than just one pitcher. So don’t mortgage the farm for just one guy. There no point in it.
By Original Jon
November 4, 2008 8:32 AM | Link to this
DOB Efrim is right, it was me, lol. But I see your point now in stating that he might not want to be second Japanese player on the team. Do the Braves have anyone that can speak Japanese to him if they got him?
By Lew
November 4, 2008 8:44 AM | Link to this
Matt-Welcome to the blog. You’ll probably fit in pretty well. The references to Whitesnake (NIght Ranger, too) are a running blog joke. We mention them because DOB can’t stand them and we like to keep his blood pressure up (figuring all that coffee he drinks won’t do it). It’s not really serious, though some of us (even those in our late 50’s) still think about being 13 again (or at least 19). But what the hell-we listen to DBT, too.
By Dadgum
November 4, 2008 9:10 AM | Link to this
Not sure this has been mentioned here but consider this scenario.
Eventually the Braves will see that Prado is the best answer at 2nd base which leaves Kelly Johnson expendable. Prado securing 2nd base and playing everyday will give us a steady bat plus his defense(which is far better than I recall many here giving him credit for) will produce more outs. Not necessarily talking less errors here simply Prado will get outs where Johnson can’t. Prado will give us better reads at 2nd and be in better position to get outs. Simply he is a much more talented 2nd baseman and, no, it ain’t close.
If Kelly can learn to play 2nd he can surely play LF. He has the type of bat for LF and is fast enough with a good enough arm. He would be a cheaper alternative in LF to anyone else we could sign most likely. Sure he is streaky at the plate but he finished off batting about .350 in the last few weeks of the season. LF historically is a high strikeout guy anyway. Kelly is well liked by all in the organization. I say put Kelly in LF and save the dollars to spend elsewhere. Prado at 2nd is perfect and Kelly will be as well in LF.
Oh, and Pat Burrell, please, ain’t happening. No way no how. Hard to imagine throwing that kind of money his way after the World Series meltdown he had. Get the pitching and I think the above scenario will serve the Braves just fine.
Rock on……….VOTE!!!!!!
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 4, 2008 9:14 AM | Link to this
Brian Well if we get Tawzhwhat?, McCann’s gonna have to learn a little Japanese.
LOL! Or we could get his interpreter to come out on the mound whenever they have a meeting.
By MizzouBravesFan
November 4, 2008 9:22 AM | Link to this
Sounds like Towers has forced Wren’s hand…put up or shut up time.
That’s why I was hoping Wren would strike early, get the jump on other teams.
The longer this plays out, the worse it is for the Braves. Teams start to lose out on FA targets and become desperate.
Also, I don’t believe Greinke to be realistic at all.
He’s all the Royals have left pretty much and it would take a king’s ransom to pry him away…as much and probably more than what SD would want for Peavy.
Moore would get raked over the coals here in K.C. if he let Greinke go for anything less than a huge return.
Peavy is the most realistic option.
By DAP
November 4, 2008 9:28 AM | Link to this
kirknga Remember he [anderson] was in the Astros organization the same time as Tavares and couldn’t win the job.
well not exactly. by the time anderson was drafted in 2003, willy has been in the the minors for clevland, went to the ‘stros, and played minor league ball for a year. that was all before anderson stepped foot in the org.
anderson was in low A ball when willy got called up. he went to college.
they may be the same age, but willy t had put in the time and so he had a bit of an advantge. thier stats in the minors are actually pretty similar.
by the way, anderson has a better career average than willy after 0-2. i dont really think that stat matters, but since you used it, ill point out anderson is better. :-)
By Efrim
November 4, 2008 9:33 AM | Link to this
Towers wants a similar package to the Teixiera and Haren deals.
Braves won’t do that. He’ll have to lower his demands to get anything done.
By Lew
November 4, 2008 9:35 AM | Link to this
Dadgum-I wouldn’t mind seeing Kelly Johnson sent back to left field, myself (he can’t make the position any more adventurous than Magellan Matt Diaz). I’m not so sure that the organization sees Martin Prado as an everyday 2B, though. Honestly, I don’t recall him being the defensive paragon you suggest, but merely adequate. I also think his lack of HR power (though he could be a doubles machine, IMO) could hold him back in the eyes of the Braves’ brass. He might just be more valuable as a bench player, to their way of thinking.
It might all still be worth a shot if they decided to go the Farm System route. However, I think they’ve got something in their heads telling them they could contend immediately. Not so sure this is so, but leaving it in the hands of AA kids a year or more away doesn’t seem the way the Braves’ Brass will go, so it’s doubtful KJ will see left field or that Prado will be the everyday 2B.
By Original Jon
November 4, 2008 9:40 AM | Link to this
DOB What are the Braves chances of getting Peavy now without giving up Hanson, Heyward, or Jurrjens? Now that the Cubs might be in the mix and the fact that the Padres have no problem trading within their division? It seems that the Braves arent talked about much anymore when it comes to teams that he might be traded too.
By Original Jon
November 4, 2008 9:42 AM | Link to this
Efrim You are right, Braves wont do that, but I bet the Dodgers or Cubs would. Another rumor that never came to fruition.
By Danga
November 4, 2008 9:44 AM | Link to this
Just curious…But when was the last time the Royals weren’t being raked over the coals in K.C. And if they haven’t been, then why on earth not? Has there been a team over the last 20 years more committed to putting terrible teams on the field year after year?
I root for Moore, but what a terrible job to have…
By Thrillhouse44
November 4, 2008 9:46 AM | Link to this
Jeter the worst fielder?
A group that tracks every ball hit in the majors says Derek Jeter is the worst fielder in baseball. Stats guru Bill James, author of the “Baseball Abstract,” and a panel of nine other voters, ranked Jeter 22nd among all major-league shortstops, with one calling Jeter “the least effective defensive player in the major leagues, at any position.” Jeter received one 10th-place vote in balloting for the 2008 Fielding Bible Awards, announced yesterday. One panel member comes from Baseball Info Solutions (BIS), a group that … well, just say they do their research. “They watched film of every major-league game, and had recorded every ball off the bat by the direction in which it was hit [the vector], the type of hit [groundball, flyball, line-drive, popup, etc.] and by how hard the ball was hit [softly hit, medium, hard hit],” according to James.
New York Post
By MizzouBravesFan
November 4, 2008 9:50 AM | Link to this
Oh trust me, the Glass family and everyone associated with the Royals gets blasted here almost daily by sports talk radio, newspapers, etc.
They don’t skate by at all.
By Lew
November 4, 2008 10:00 AM | Link to this
Dayton Moore may have a terrible job, but it can’t be any worse than having to record every ground ball hit in ML baseball by all of those criteria previously mentioned. I’d much rather indulge in an Artist’s version of pain-watching paint dry-or in the case of Chipper’s Deer, using a blow dryer to dry the paint so I could mail it.
I wonder, do Shaun and SteveInOH appreciate the pain people endure and give worthy thanks to the people who supply them with all those stats?
By Steve from OH
November 4, 2008 10:01 AM | Link to this
Efrim:
The Braves won’t do that, and I’m glad they won’t.
KJ will either be at 2B for the Braves or at 2B for another team. Don’t see him in LF for us at all.
Glad to see that Garland and Vasquez aren’t high on the Braves’ wish list.
By Danga
November 4, 2008 10:01 AM | Link to this
“Yankees shortstop Derek Jeter is pretty famous for his high credit rating. He has won three Gold Gloves even though he goes left about as well as the National Review. The words “Past a diving Jeter,” are a staple of every New York Yankees broadcast.*
*”Past a diving Jeter,” jokes are pretty prominent on the Internet these days, and one frequent commenter on the outstanding “Baseball Think Factory” blog calls himself “Pasta-Diving Jeter,” which is brilliant. I keep waiting to see Pasta Diving Jeter on a menu. I see it as a spaghetti dish, chicken, garlic, onions, maybe a red sauce. We should get Mario Batali or Emeril or Giada or someone working on this. And yes, I watch cooking shows. What of it?”
From a Joe Posnanski column about over and under rated players. I found it humurous. Here is the link:
(http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/joe_posnanski/10/22/mack.brown/index.html)
But I would like to see the rest of the rankings…I would like to see where Mr. Gold Glove 3b David Wright ranks on that list.
By Danga
November 4, 2008 10:02 AM | Link to this
MizzouBravesFan…Thank God. They deserve every bit of it.
By mecca12
November 4, 2008 10:02 AM | Link to this
heres how the starting rotation should be for next year 1. jake peavy 2.a.j. burnett 3.tim hudson 4.mike hampton 5.jair jurjens
By keylargo
November 4, 2008 10:02 AM | Link to this
McFann
Have you seen that Flowers is hitting .419 with a slugging % over 1.0 and an OPS over 1.5?
And he has two triples!
How do you think BMac will handle being a backup?
LOL, good morning! You know I am just kidding. You’ll have graduated from college long before BMac is not our starting catcher!
By Daybed Wagmoe
November 4, 2008 10:06 AM | Link to this
From the NY Post:
Padres GM Kevin Towers said it is still most likely that ace Jake Peavy will get traded to an NL team (the Braves remain the front-runner), but that the righty also has given his approval to be dealt to the Yankees or Angels, as well.
However, Peavy’s rep, Barry Axelrod, said, “We have not given approval for those two teams and we haven’t even been asked to say yes or no.” Axelrod, in fact, said Peavy would almost certainly ask for additional conditions (read more money) to consider going to a team such as the Yankees.
By Steve from OH
November 4, 2008 10:07 AM | Link to this
Here’s a clip from Joel Sherman’s latest article:
“However, Peavy’s rep, Barry Axelrod, said, “We have not given approval for those two teams and we haven’t even been asked to say yes or no.” Axelrod, in fact, said Peavy would almost certainly ask for additional conditions (read more money) to consider going to a team such as the Yankees.”
“Those two teams” would mean the Yanks and Angels.
By David O'Brien
November 4, 2008 10:09 AM | Link to this
Original Jon, regarding your 9:40 a.m. post: Don’t know where you’re getting your info, but most of it’s innacurate.
As I wrote in today’s paper (and here, higher in the blog; you must have missed that), the Braves were favorites to land Peavy according to the majority of people I talked to Monday at the GM meetings, including team officials, scouts, a couple of agents and about 20 writers.
Many were also skeptical of whether the Padres would actually trade Peavy within the division (despite what Towers has indicated) or whether they’re just using that to gain leverage with other interested teams. Dodgers GM Ned Colletti said as much himself, that it usually presents an obstacle, trading a top-tier player or pitcher within the division.
By Eware
November 4, 2008 10:12 AM | Link to this
DOB, what are your thoughts on trading Morton? I’m hesitant, because you once said that he has top of the rotation potential.
Plus, I really like watching the guy. I think he could be awesome, once he realizes that he’s good enough to be in the big leagues.
Dude, you were right, that Ryan Adams album is awesome. I like it more than Easy Tiger. Lyrics might not be as good, but I like the music more.
By Nate
November 4, 2008 10:16 AM | Link to this
It’s not just about finding someone who can play left field. Any number of guys already on the team could play left field. The Braves need a cleanup hitter. Moving Kelly to left field doesn’t create a cleanup hitter, unless anybody believes Prado can bat cleanup. Anybody?
How about Raul Ibanez? Who wants batting Raul Ibanez batting cleanup all next year?
Finding a cleanup hitter isn’t going to be easy.
By keylargo
November 4, 2008 10:18 AM | Link to this
heres how the starting rotation should be for next year 1. jake peavy 2.a.j. burnett 3.tim hudson 4.mike hampton 5.jair jurjens mecca12
If Frank Wren can get that rotation here in Atlanta, he will deserve the 40 virgins promised to him.
By Lew
November 4, 2008 10:25 AM | Link to this
Mecca12-You are aware that Hudson had Tommy John surgery and will be out at least until August and possibly (maybe probably) not back to normal until 2010? By then, I would doubt Hampton would be on the team (if he even is in 09). He will command a multi million $ contract-bank on it. Atlanta may not be the highest offer he receives.
By brAves Sucios
November 4, 2008 10:27 AM | Link to this
I like Peavey as much as the next guy, but absolutely prefer a higher-priced free agent even if that means picking up slightly-lesser additional pitchers if we’ll have to give up too many prospects in a trade. Our farm system looks great for the first time in a while, it’d be a shame to waste all that for the sake of a season that very well may be another rebuilding one anyway.
By Thrillhouse44
November 4, 2008 10:28 AM | Link to this
heres how the starting rotation should be for next year 1. jake peavy 2.a.j. burnett 3.tim hudson 4.mike hampton 5.jair jurjens mecca12
If Frank Wren can get that rotation here in Atlanta, he will deserve the 40 virgins promised to him. keylargo
Dr. Andrews would deserve 80 if Hudson pitches most of the season.
By Original Jon
November 4, 2008 10:33 AM | Link to this
Thanks for clearing that up DOB. I feel a little better about the situation now. I just wish this was over already so we know whether or not we got him. Also, how serious are the Braves about Tazawa?
By ncscoots
November 4, 2008 10:36 AM | Link to this
If Frank Wren can get that rotation here in Atlanta, he will deserve the 40 virgins promised to him.
And he would need every one of the forty’s post-virginity dollars to cover the $50MM+ it would cost to pay for it.
By David O'Brien
November 4, 2008 10:40 AM | Link to this
Thrillhouse, Hudson isn’t expected back until late August. He certainly isn’t going to pitch most, or even half, of the season.
By McFann O –[zzz]
November 4, 2008 10:41 AM | Link to this
Keylargo—
Morning!
Yeah, I’ve seen his minor league stuff. Pretty solid.
Two triples, eh? That’s nice. But does he have any steals?
How do you think BMac will handle being a backup?
A lot better than I would handle it…maybe…
Ah, I know you’re just joking! The Braves would ditch him in the middle of a contract;since he’s good, and all.
You’ll have graduated from college long before BMac is not our starting catcher!
Let’s hope so! I hope he follows Chipper and Smoltz and is a Brave 4 Life!!
By Lew
November 4, 2008 10:42 AM | Link to this
If I were in the driver’s seat, what I would do would be quite simple and accomplished in two moves. 1. Sign Derek Lowe. The guy is a ground ball pitcher, which should translate well to Turner Field. He pitches 200 innings a year, almost without fail. He will cost no more than anyone else and as a Free Agent, will not cost prospects. 2. Make a deal and bring in Javier Vasquez and Nick Swisher. Two birds with one stone-and not likely to cost quite as much for the two of them as Peavy alone.
Now some have referred to a high ERA with Vasquez, but keep in mind the guy has 11 years of ML experience and is still only 32. He is signed for two years at a reasonable rate. He HAS been pitching in the AL after all, and most seem to think that has an effect on ERA. Despite this, his career ERA is 4.32-not terrible. He also has pitched 200 or more innings in eight of the past nine seasons (the only other being 190 something IP) and has a career 3 to 1 K to BB ratio and a good WHIP.
With Lowe and Vasquez (plus Swisher), you’ll spend about $32 Million, leaving more than enough to re-sign Will Ohman and Greg Norton with a couple mil in reserve. Wren has said that should Glavine and/or Smoltz be ready to pitch, they will not figure into the $40 mil.
Swisher should be able to take over cleanup and hit 20-30 HR, providing both the power we need from the outfield, but providing protection for Chipper. The way I see it, this is the way to go and should put us into contention for the Division-especially if Morton and Hanson produce like we think they can. Lowe and Vasquez should provide the innings pitched we lacked that caused the implosion of our pen, making the pen all the stronger, as well.
By DAP
November 4, 2008 10:42 AM | Link to this
im hopeing the braves will make a competitive offer for lowe. 3 years $16mil per is pretty good for us considering our financial situation. what if we could get lowe AND peavy? that $27mil tied up for 2009, and it will go up after that…would it be worth it?
what if we got peavy, whos contract is back loaded, and signed lowe and front loaded his. that way, this year, when we can afford to take on more, we pay lowe more, and then after that it will taper off, allowing us to trade him easily, or afford him more easily.
peavy and lowe would be an awesome offseason, and think about 2010. peavy, hudson, lowe, jurjens, hanson, woah.
By MizzouBravesFan
November 4, 2008 10:45 AM | Link to this
So Towers himself threw out there the whole Yanks/Angels thing…interesting.
Again, trying to force Wren’s hand?
Seems so to me.
By David O'Brien
November 4, 2008 10:47 AM | Link to this
First of all, I have serious doubts about any report that says Peavy has given Padres “permission” to talk to Yankees, or indicated to them that he might accept a trade there. I’ll check that out, but I have serious doubts about the validity of that.
Secondly, pretend you’re the Yankees and ask yourself this: You have basically unlimited funds and have stated how determined you are not to trade away all your top prospects the way you did in the recent past, so why would you trade for Peavy when it would gut much of your top-tier young pitching, and when you could instead just sign a couple of the best free-agent starters?
But again, I doubt he or his agent actually indicated to Padres that Peavy might consider a deal to go to the Yankees. Really doubt that. He doesn’t want to pitch for a New York team, or Boston for that matter. That’s what I was told all along.
By THB
November 4, 2008 10:47 AM | Link to this
Doc Holliday-There’s a big difference between Francoeur’s minor league numbers and Schafer’s. Franceour has never had a good OBP. His numbers in AA before his callup were .275/.322/.487. Now, that’s solid slugging with 13 HR and 28 2B in 84 games, but a terrible OBP.
In Schafer’s AA time, which also happened to be 84 games, he hit .269/.378/.471. That’s pretty damn good, similar SLG with outstanding OBP, along with 10 HR and 18 2B.
Not to mention Schafer drew 49 BB and Jeff drew 21 BB. I’d say Schafer is much more ready than Francoeur, and on top of that he has a great work ethic.
And I don’t think Langerhans’ minor league numbers were all that special, just pointing that out. Schafer was valued higher by Baseball America last year than Francoeur was and has the stats to back it up.
By MizzouBravesFan
November 4, 2008 10:51 AM | Link to this
DOB
Has there been any whispers around the meetings so far on a timetable for a Peavy deal?
Is something expected this week or could this spill on until the Winter Meetings or around there?
By cricket (journey into the mind of Jake Peavy)
November 4, 2008 10:51 AM | Link to this
I am Jake Peavy. I am the best pitcher available for trade. I love san diego, I want to stay with the padres. I am a country boy from Alabama. I like hunting,fishing and Atlanta Braves. I would like to play for the Braves. Roy Oswalt is my friend. I want to be his teammate. I want to be traded to Astros. I want to stay with Padres. I don’t mind being traded to Cardinals or Cubs but I don’t want to go to AL since I like my hitting as much as hunting and fishing. I have suddenly realized that Dodgers will contend next year, even though the sole reason for their success last year was Manny and he won’t be on that team anymore. I don’t think Braves can beat Mets or Phillies and I want to continue my history of playing on the consistently contending team. I want to be traded to Dodgers. I now don’t like hitting as much as hunting and fishing. I don’t mind going to AL, preferably to Yankees or Angels as there are so many regular charter flights from close to my lodge in Alabama to NY and whereever the heck the Angels claim they play.
By Thrillhouse44
November 4, 2008 10:53 AM | Link to this
DOB, that was the joke. But, jokes are never funny if you have to explain them.
By Wayne
November 4, 2008 10:54 AM | Link to this
Lew Your plan would also leave enough $$ for paying off my mortgage, the BBQ opening day party, and your trip down for ST!
I’m good with that.
By matt
November 4, 2008 10:57 AM | Link to this
Lew,
Thanks for the welcome. I didn’t get the Whitesnake joke, must have missed that one. Got the Baldelli reference.
I’ll try to get in on more of the conversation.
By A.S.
November 4, 2008 11:03 AM | Link to this
Dave if the Braves signed him they would be appealing to a Japaneese market that they have never had any affiliation. I think this would be a good move for money and media.
By Robert
November 4, 2008 11:03 AM | Link to this
DOB
Is there anyway we can keep Escobar and include Kelly Johnson instead? Are the Padres insisting that we include Escobar since we won’t trade our top prospects? If we land Peavy, who do you see us sending there way?
Thanks
By ncscoots
November 4, 2008 11:05 AM | Link to this
I like good prospects as much as the next guy (heck, I plan my summer business travel around watching minor league ball, how nuts am I?), but I do think some here get a little carried away. Certainly, you don’t think Atlanta (or any other club) is going to field 25 home-grown players, and, oh by the way, they’ll all be elite at their position, too? Come on.
If the Braves get two players from their current crop who become top-tier ML players, they’ll be happy. Three, and they would be ecstatic. The rest will be no more than average-to-good, and thus fairly easy to replace at the ML level. If you can spend those guys as prospects (when potential can create a higher currency), there is nothing wrong with doing so. They aren’t all going to play in Atlanta. Ever. And they are unlikely to be worth as much later as they are early.
Of course, making the evaluation of which guys can be used as currency can be a little tough, LOL.
By used cars
November 4, 2008 11:06 AM | Link to this
Dave, Can you use your speculative powers and rank the potential lf candidates: Bradley, Burrell, Swisher, Ordonez, Junior, Anderson, Dunn, Baldelli, Ibanez. As far as pitchers, Peavy, Lowe, Burnett, Scott Olson, Edwin Jackson, Grienke??? Tazawa.. I know it’s all speculation and somewhat educated guesswork, but we like that info. My vote is for Peavy and/or Grienke and Tazawa…But do you think the brass would really prefer to pick up a lefty or are they comfortable with Hampton? Thanks again for all the info
By brian
November 4, 2008 11:11 AM | Link to this
DOB - I know you cannot stand the ESPN rumor mill but this is what is posted there Most of the discussion about Jake Peavy has centered on National League teams. Now, though, a pair of American League teams have entered the race, with both the Angels and Yankees now on the list, according to San Diego GM Kevin Towers. The Braves, Cubs, Dodgers, Cardinals and Astros have been identified as preferences by Peavy, but, according to Towers, the right-hander has agreed to consider the Angels and Yankees. Towers has ranked the teams, but declined to give any indication on which team, at the moment, is the frontrunner.
By David O'Brien
November 4, 2008 11:23 AM | Link to this
Brian, that’s not what I’m told. Quite the opposite, actually — Peavy has NOT agreed to consider the Yankees, and from all indications he will not.
Believe what you want to believe. Don’t know what to tell you.
As for Angels, that’s perhaps possible, but I know he wants to stay in the NL and has made that abundantly clear.
By David O'Brien
November 4, 2008 11:29 AM | Link to this
MizzouBravesFan: Sitting next to Kenny Rosenthal in the work room, we decided to make a friendly bet on when Peavy would get done. But after first leaning toward Thanksgiving as the over-under, we then made it the Winter Meetings. Problem was, I think we both ended up agreeing it’d probably get done by then.
I first said I thought it’d be done before Thanksgiving, and he didn’t sound like he thought it would.
My whole point in this: Who knows? Could be this week, could be December. But I think no later than Winter Meetings, and very well could be in next week or two.
By Wayne
November 4, 2008 11:32 AM | Link to this
brian Definitely sounds like Towers is playing his game, trying to do whatever he can to create an urgency from the Braves perspective, and pressure them to up the ante.
Hold fast Frank!
By BravesFanInRockies
November 4, 2008 11:34 AM | Link to this
If you look at the quotes, Towers is the one saying the Yankees are in play; Peavy’s agent says he’s not aware of it. I’d actually trust the agent in this case.
As one denizen suggested last night, Towers is trying to squeeze the Braves, for Hanson probably, and so far Wren (to his credit) isn’t playing along.
By Wayne
November 4, 2008 11:40 AM | Link to this
DOB Is Kenny as handsome and charming in person as he is on TV and Radio?
Some of us guys have a “man-crush” on him!
:-)
(long live XM and MIB/Blog)
By Brian
November 4, 2008 11:40 AM | Link to this
People like to start vicious, cold, heartless lies about trades. Damn Yankees! I hate the Cubs too! They don’t need Peavy with Zamb.,Harden,and Lilly-wuss. Angels don’t need him either, so they need to focus on signing $Tex$ anyways!
Peavy- you need to just come here and we’ll win a championship just for you.
Just think, when you’re at bat Cox can yell, Drive ‘em in Peavster!!! Why am I talking to myself? Who am I talking to? I think I’m losing my mind!
By Wayne
November 4, 2008 11:40 AM | Link to this
btw, snowing in Utah!
By Wayne
November 4, 2008 11:43 AM | Link to this
If Wren and Towers knew how badly that we wanted to get onto the #2 starter and LF’er speculation, they would just “git ‘er done”.
By MizzouBravesFan
November 4, 2008 11:47 AM | Link to this
Dang, I was hoping for a pretty quick resolution one way or another on the Peavy front just so the Braves could move on to other deals or acquisitions.
Maybe they will, just thought that the Peavy deal is on their plate first and they would move on after it.
By Efrim
November 4, 2008 11:52 AM | Link to this
Yanks have no interest in Peavy:
http://blogs.nypost.com/sports/st/archives/2008/11/3uppeavycca.html
And I don’t think Peavy has any interest in them. It’s Towers trying to get some leverage in the situation.
Here is Peter Gammons take:
We know Jake Peavy is out there, but after seeing Tommy Hanson in the Arizona Fall League, one scout says, “I can see why the Braves won’t put him in the Peavy deal. It likely will still happen, but replacing Hanson with Yunel Escobar and Jordan Schafer included will be difficult.”
Um, so Towers doesn’t like a package of Schafer and Escobar? He wants more? Did I read that right?
By BravesFanInRockies
November 4, 2008 11:59 AM | Link to this
The suitors are shrinking, Mr. Towers. Better make that deal before the negotiating window closes or the offer’s reduced. …
By Lew
November 4, 2008 11:59 AM | Link to this
Matt-It’s been going on for several years now, so no way you would know. We rarely play the “Whitesnake Card” any more-mostly just N8 (Nathan) getting his occasional digs in. He does it when there’s nothing negative to pontificate about. He’s a good Rock and Roller, though, so we listen to his negative ramblings-most of the time.
By brian
November 4, 2008 12:01 PM | Link to this
DOB - I trust your opinion. One of the reasons why I check this blog daily. Just wanted to show where the chatter above my post was coming from.
Towers would commit GM malpractice if he did not try to drive up the price. To get on the rumor mills it does not take a significant source and a lot of times it is the analyst talking about what they would like to see. That is why you get asked a lot about the rumors. A rumor does not get much credibility unless you say it does.
By Daybed Wagmoe
November 4, 2008 12:08 PM | Link to this
Efrim — I’m only going by what you’ve pasted onto here, but it sounds like Gammons is saying that including both Escobar and Schafer would be difficult for the Braves — not that it’s not enough for Towers’ liking, but that it would be tough for the Braves to part with both of those.
By Mike
November 4, 2008 12:25 PM | Link to this
DOB This may sound like a far fetched dream…but how about some sort of senario where by the braves send yunel and 1 or 2 prospects to San Diego to get Peavy and Greene, then we trade Greene and 1 or 2 prospects to Detroit (they have interest in Greene) for Mags, and then we sign Furcal. Sounds crazy and probably not likely, but would be pretty cool. And it would probably leave us with less money to sign a FA pitcher. What do you think?
By Bubdylan
November 4, 2008 12:38 PM | Link to this
Here’s and idea Have Tommy Hanson throw a couple flat fastballs right down broadway during his next start and give up a run or five. Then Escobar might start to look more golden to Towers? I know, scouts & GM’s aren’t as knee-jerky as fans, but hey… they’re only human.
By Brian
November 4, 2008 12:39 PM | Link to this
Efrim- I know! If Escobar, Schafer, and maybe Morton aren’t enough, then Towers can keep Peavy! BUT, no fu_ way he turns that down after all the elimination happens, especially if they want to trade him!
By Efrim
November 4, 2008 12:43 PM | Link to this
Daybed Wagmoe
Yes, you’re correct. Long day. Thanks.
By David O'Brien
November 4, 2008 12:46 PM | Link to this
Mike, I think that’s very complicated and unlikely. Three-way trade scenarios are rare in baseball, to begin with.
By glove51
November 4, 2008 12:54 PM | Link to this
DOB:
Do you think there is any chance the Braves would sign Edgar R. for a year or two, assuming they deal Escobar to get Peavy?
By Marc
November 4, 2008 1:01 PM | Link to this
And here it, Marc’s predictions for the 08/09 offseason!
Mike Hampton - RESIGNS Greg Norton - RESIGNS John Smoltz - RESIGNS
Will Ohman - DENIED Tom Glavine - DENIED
(Some other players aren’t listed yet cause I’m not sure if they want to file or not)
Trades -
Martin Prado, Taylor Flowers, Josh Anderson /or/ Jordan Schafer, and two 2nd-tier prospects for Roy Holliday and Alex Rios
Free Agency -
2-4 “failed” prospects (probably all pitchers, and one of which will end up in a Braves uniform as a reliever)
Either Lackey or Sheets (both a risk, but both a risk with big rewards if they stay healthy).
With Hudson likely ready to pitch again for next year’s postseason, the Braves feel like they have the cavalry waiting if they can just make it through the season.
Lot of risk, they’ll be expecting Hampton and their FA pitcher to stay healthy, and they’ll be expecting Johnson and Francour to produce like they know they can.
But with several OF and IF options ready for the bigs should their starting day core falter, and Hanson a possibility for a late in the season shot in the arm; the Braves will have a real shot at it all this year.
By MizzouBravesFan
November 4, 2008 1:02 PM | Link to this
Well there are other teams interested in Greene and SD is shopping him so it’s fairly obvious that any Peavy deal would have to be built around Escobar…something that was fairly obvious anyways once Hanson wasn’t made available.
By MizzouBravesFan
November 4, 2008 1:17 PM | Link to this
Melvin confirmed that the Brewers aren’t in on Peavy…another one bites the dust.
By Original Jon
November 4, 2008 1:17 PM | Link to this
Martin Prado, Taylor Flowers, Josh Anderson /or/ Jordan Schafer, and two 2nd-tier prospects for Roy Holliday and Alex Rios marc
That is the dumbest thing I have heard in a long time.
By TennesseePaul
November 4, 2008 1:19 PM | Link to this
Efrim: Um, so Towers doesn’t like a package of Schafer and Escobar? He wants more? Did I read that right?
Perhaps it’s the optimist in me, but I read that as Towers wants less. Zing!
By P-Town Brave
November 4, 2008 1:22 PM | Link to this
Guys
Who else thinks Peter Gammons needs to stop sniffing glue?
I really hope Greene goes in the next few days to Boston and then Yunel will be off the table…
I’m starting to think maybe we oughta try to get Maggs and the other pitcher taken care of before Peavy…I think then we could really decide whether he’s worth it or not depending on what the other two pieces are…
That being said, I heard we were in the major running and going to make an offer for Ben Sheets…not sure if I like that or not, but I always question if he didn’t get his injuries from being in Milwaukee…I mean look at the Cubs…everything Dusty Baker touched turned to stone
By Lew
November 4, 2008 1:23 PM | Link to this
Several have mentioned picking up Khalil Greene and turning him in a trade. I think they radically overvalue him. With the abysmal season he had last year, I’m betting his $6.5 million salary will not attract a whole lot of attention. I’d hate to be stuck with that salary, too.
By ORbravesFAN
November 4, 2008 1:24 PM | Link to this
If we still had Elvis Andrus still I would not even blink an eye to trade Escobar. With that being said, it is very important to get an ace on the staff. Who is the next shortstop in our system who can be a franchise guy? I don’t know if Lillibridge is ready to be an everyday guy at the plate yet. Your thoughts.
By BravesFanInRockies
November 4, 2008 1:25 PM | Link to this
You know what would be really funny? If the Peavy deal fell apart and the necessity of cutting payroll forced the Padres to unload Greene for next to nothing AND not pick up Brian Giles’ option. And then the Braves signed Giles.
I’d still want another big bopper, but that scenario would make me laugh.
By Lew
November 4, 2008 1:27 PM | Link to this
MizzouBravesFan- I heard that the Brewers had already made an offer to CC Sabbathia. I think his long term acquisition would negate much interest in Peavy.
By Anders
November 4, 2008 1:28 PM | Link to this
I still think that if the Braves or someone else doesn’t step up and wow Towers he’s going to publicly pull back on trading Peavy at some point even if it’s for strategic reasons. He’s needs to show some leverage here. He doesn’t have to trade Peavy. He does have that leverage. I believe he wants to trade him but no need to give him away in this pitching starved market.
The Braves rightfully showed strength by taking certain guys out of the equation - Towers needs to react accordingly. There’s no rush at this juncture.
By BravesFanInRockies
November 4, 2008 1:39 PM | Link to this
Lew,
Don’t be surprised if teams come calling for Greene. Aside from Furcal, Orlando Cabrera and Renteria, who else is out there? There are more teams seeking SS than there are acceptable SS available.
He’s not terrible, his contract isn’t as awful as, say, Luis Castillo’s, and you’d be stuck with him for only two years. If he bounces back to his 2004-2007 production, he’s actually OK. Not that I want him on the Braves.
By Buffalo NY Braves Fan
November 4, 2008 1:39 PM | Link to this
I think involving Escobar in this deal is a big mistake. FW should try to work a 3 way trade with one of the teams interested in Greene. That could satisfy the need for a middle infielder that SD wants, and would allow FW to keep Escobar in the fold. While I think Greene is an above average defender, I’m not sold on his offensive skills. If the Greene from 2007 shows up, it’s a steal, if the Greene from 2008 shows up…. well…. we can start looking forward to 2010.
By Robert
November 4, 2008 1:39 PM | Link to this
I wonder if we through Texas some pitching, if they would give us Andrus back
By TennesseePaul
November 4, 2008 1:41 PM | Link to this
The Braves rightfully showed strength by taking certain guys out of the equation - Towers needs to react accordingly. There’s no rush at this juncture.
It would appear Towers is trying to pull those players back into the equation by making bold statements proclaiming the Yankees and Angles are involved, as well as the Dodgers. It doesn’t help Towers that all those teams are denying it, along with the player he is attempting to trade.
Agreed the only power play Towers has left is pulling Peavy back, but that doesn’t really hurt the Braves. They’d still have all their youth in addition to that salary which Peavy would have consumed. Eventually Towers is going to have to sit down and talk with Wren on a serious level. The trade will either happen or it won’t.
By Buffalo NY Braves Fan
November 4, 2008 1:47 PM | Link to this
Anders,
I believe that Towers DOES have to trade Peavy. He is dealing from a bad position. SD is looking to cut payroll, and moving Peavy and Greene are their main priorities. Nothing has been said publicly, but I believe Towers has been told to trade Peavy. Towers is losing more and more leverage in this process the longer he waits.
Also, now that the story about the yankees and angels being involved has proven to be false, Towers has lost more negotiating power. Teams are dropping out of the running fast and Towers is going to have to take what he can get at this point.
By Anders
November 4, 2008 1:47 PM | Link to this
Lew
I heard that the Brewers had already made an offer to CC Sabbathia. I think his long term acquisition would negate much interest in Peavy.
They offered like $100 mil over 5 years, very weak.That said, no way CC signs with the Brewers - no way.
But even if he did, this would put more teams in play for Peavy that are waiting on CC. CC signing with the Brewers would be a home run for Towers.
By ORbravesFAN
November 4, 2008 1:55 PM | Link to this
Andrus hit just under .300 and stole 43 bases at double A this year, what a mistake to trade this guy, especially if we end up trading Escobar as well. Escobar was the only reason that we were able to dangle Andrus. Wow thinking about that Tex trade just made me throw up in my own mouth!
By Buffalo NY Braves Fan
November 4, 2008 1:55 PM | Link to this
CC signing with the Brewers has no effect on the Peavy deal. Peavy still has a small list of teams he is willing to be traded to. Unless Peavy expands the list, CC and any other FA available will have no effect on this trade.
By Anders
November 4, 2008 1:57 PM | Link to this
Tennessee Paul
Agreed, I left out that the Braves don’t have to make this deal either.
Towers needs to test Peavy to see how badly he wants out. If he really wants out he may have to widen Towers options. If not, then either Towers acquiesces to the narrow market Peavy has given him or keeps him and revisits it mid year.
I would choose the latter. Mid season deals usually benefit the seller unless it’s a pure salary dump.
By Anders
November 4, 2008 1:59 PM | Link to this
Buffalo
I believe that Towers DOES have to trade Peavy.
Why?
By Anders
November 4, 2008 2:02 PM | Link to this
Buffalo
Sorry I hit the send inadvertently. I was going to write :
Why? because we hear rumors about cutting payroll? Nobody knows that. No more tahn all the rumors about the teams involved. I think they are motivated to trade him , but I don’t think they’ll give him away. I wouldn’t in this market.
By David O'Brien
November 4, 2008 2:03 PM | Link to this
Going to get going on a new blog, should be up in an hour if nothing else comes up that requires me to go out to the (scenery-filled) lobby.
By the way, I had someone who’s close to the KC organization ask me just this morning what it would take to get Francoeur. He told me that if Dayton and his assistants had a list of the guys they’d like to trade for, Francoeur is atop it. Seriously. They don’t view him in light of this past season so much as they do for the years he was in the minor league system when Dayton was with the Braves, etc. They LOVE his mental makeup and physical talent. Hey, just telling you what I hear.
Anyway, how ‘bout Mark Teahan and a top pitching prospect to start a trade discussion with the Royals? Teahan is sort of their Francoeur, the OF who’s shown flashes of big potential, but slipped last year, etc. Teahan made $2.2 mill in his first year of arb, but I’m told Royals might be willing to send some cash to a team in a trade to cover part of his 2009 salary.
I’ll try to find out today what Braves think of him. Again, this is not any trade rumor I’ve heard, don’t even know if Braves have any interest in him….
Buffalo: I’m with you, Towers DOES have to trade Peavy. The owner wants to take payroll down to — get this — $40 mill. That’s more than a 50—percent reduction. And they’re keeping Giles and A. Gonzalez, so you do the math on how much they have left to spend for the rest of the team if they are to get the payroll where they want it.
By DAP
November 4, 2008 2:07 PM | Link to this
I believe that Towers DOES have to trade Peavy.
i agree. anders, the rest of the post explains why. the team is cutting payrole, and if its not peavy, who goes? towers needs to get rid of peavy more than the braves need to get him, and i believe that the asking price is falling. wren’s offer might stay the same.
By BravesFanInRockies
November 4, 2008 2:09 PM | Link to this
Anders,
Towers may not have a gun to his head, but he’ll have to trade Peavy before his salary escalates dramatically.
This offseason makes the most sense because he should be able to get a better return if he can guarantee the other team four relatively affordable years rather than three at a much higher cost per season.
Who knows? Maybe he can get better players by waiting until the 2009 deadline, or next winter. If he does that, however, he’ll probably have to dump Giles and get rid of Greene for next to nothing and the Pads will almost certainly be a 100-loss team for a couple of years.
By DAP
November 4, 2008 2:11 PM | Link to this
DOB id rather have dejesus. but i guess the royals would, to.
By Daybed Wagmoe
November 4, 2008 2:15 PM | Link to this
DOB — That’s very intriguing, the Royals’ strong interest in Francouer. It doesn’t seem like it’d be possible, but maybe instead of getting something like Teahan and a top pitching prospect from the Royals, the Braves could send Francouer and a prospect in exchange for Mike Aviles? Then sending Escobar to San Diego wouldn’t be a problem. But, like I said, that doesn’t seem possible on several fronts — seems like KC would want to hang onto Aviles, and Atlanta would have two holes in the OF…ah forget it.
But that’s still very intriguing…
By Art
November 4, 2008 2:16 PM | Link to this
Trade Jo Jo, Brandon Jones, Charlie Morton and Yunel escobar to the padres for Peavy and Green
By Anders
November 4, 2008 2:19 PM | Link to this
DOB
Buffalo: I’m with you, Towers DOES have to trade Peavy. The owner wants to take payroll down to — get this — $40 mill. That’s more than a 50—percent reduction.
Well if another small market team gives away assets in an effort to save in the short run that’s their perogative, but then they get what they deserve when they wallow in mediocrity for years trying to rebuild from within.
As for Frenchy, wow what a free fall! Last year on here he was touted as the next coming of Roberto Clemente and now your rumoring him to KC for spare parts and prospects. I know you wrote that it’s not even a verified rumor but the fact that you didn’t even dismiss it out of hand speaks volumes.
By Patrick
November 4, 2008 2:22 PM | Link to this
DOB,
What happened to your appearance on Charlie Steiners show on XM today??
By N8
November 4, 2008 2:26 PM | Link to this
glove51
“Do you think there is any chance the Braves would sign Edgar R. for a year or two, assuming they deal Escobar to get Peavy?”
Glove…I’m not singling you out when I make the following statement. But get real?
IMO, If Wren is willing to give up Escobar (a HUGE part of the “pitching, DEFENSE & 3-Run HR equation Bobby loves to run with), to acquire Peavy, he better hope that Peavy (and the rest of the staff) ups their K totals next year.
Edgar’s defense is a shell of what it used to be, his range is way down and his arm (while steady and accurate) is about 70 perecent of Yunel’s arm.
In case you didn’t notice, his hitting fell off a bunch last year as well.
I’m all for bringing back Edgar (at a significantly reduced rate), to be a utility IF guy and a bat off the bench, along with a calming leadership role in the clubhouse.
But to bring him back as the everyday SS would be a HUGE mistake, IMO.
It’s kind of like my question about Andruw. I’m not suggesting that Wren re-acquire Andruw and plop him in CF and the clean-up spot of the lineup. But IF he could be had for little to nothing (as in MAJOR salary dump by the Dodgers), and he got in shape and was willing to COMPETE for the LF job in spring training…. bring him home.
On a side note, I think Towers is putting himself in a hole. We don’t NEED to make this deal.
Period.
Sure, if the Braves want to compete for a WS title NEXT YEAR (2009), then adding Peavy would be a nice step in that direction.
But we have money to burn. We might be better off adding Burnett and Lowe (along with a power hitting LF), and KEEPING the kids waiting in the wings, either for a mid-season deal to make our move or strenghten the club. Or to make moves NEXT off-season.
The real question is how bad does Wren (and Bobby) want a guy like Peavy over guys like Lowe & Burnett (or other guys that might be available in a trade)?
What’s more important? Saving money, because surely Burnett and Lowe won’t come as “cheap” as Peavy’s contract would cost over the next few years.
Or saving the prospects so when one of the acquired pitchers go down (which they will), we have young guns waiting to help out?
I’m not so sure I don’t save the prospects. After all, even if we sign a Type A free agent this year, we won’t lose our 1st round pick, since it’s in the upper half of round one. This is the PRIME year to sign a big free agent without losing a really good draft slot.
But I trust Wren to do the right thing for not only 2009, but the future as well. If Towers ends up waiting too long, maybe we get him for even less than we think it should take.
Ah…..the chess match of MLB trades. Gotta love it!
By Efrim
November 4, 2008 2:29 PM | Link to this
DOB
That top pitching prospect would probably have to be pretty good. Teahan and Dan Cortes would be reasonable. That is their best prospect outside of Mike Moustakas. At least ones that are eligible to be traded.
Here is Cortes’ stats:
http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Dan%20Cortes&pos=P&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=451135
By N8
November 4, 2008 2:32 PM | Link to this
DOB
As you know, with me being a Chiefs fan, I sit and listen to KC talk radio all day long at work, and believe me the radio hosts, and fans calling in have had about as much of Teahan as some of us have had with Francoeur, and at the same time the callers have been excited about the mere mention of Jeff possibly becoming a Royal.
I guess the grass is always greener, huh?
Anyhow, maybe it’s just the change of scenery that both of them could use to further their careers. Getting away from fans that have soured on them a bit.
Both still young enough and full of natural talent to turn it around. Perhaps new suroundings (and coaching staffs) could change their fortunes.
Speaking of the Royals. What ever happened to the kid (recovering from TJ surgery - if my brain is thinking straight), that we got for Tony Pena Jr.?
What’s his name again, and is he in the mix for a bullpen job next spring. If I remember right, he threw really hard (not that that means success).
By TennesseePaul
November 4, 2008 2:35 PM | Link to this
As for Frenchy, wow what a free fall!
It is almost as bad of a free fall as Lastings Milledge had except Francoeur hasn’t been traded yet and the impetuous of this whole discourse began with a guy not involved with the Braves.
By David O'Brien
November 4, 2008 2:37 PM | Link to this
Had to cut-and-paste this paragraph from Don’s Ella Guru newsletter/e-mail he sends to people on his mailing list, just because it’s funny and because some of you might want to take him up on his 20-percent discount offer (by the way, he’s a UF alum):
We’re here, open for business. Georgia Bulldogs welcome. There’s a 20% discount on used CDs and LPs for UGA fans the rest of the week after I give you a swat with a rolled-up newspaper. Ditto the discount for those Gators reading if you can quote Philippians 4:13 or whatever it is written on Tim’s eyeblack. I don’t think it refers to his O-Line but that helped too. Happy election day to all. We’ll see you sometime, here’s hoping.
By Buffalo NY Braves Fan
November 4, 2008 2:38 PM | Link to this
Anders,
As I stated and DOB backed me up on, he HAS to trade Peavy. The longer he waits, the worse the offer is going to get. Towers is losing bidders fast, and his attempt to drive up the asking price just went down in flames.
Incase anyone missed the “attempt to drive up the asking price” it was his mentioning of the Yankees and Angles being added to the list…. which Peavys agent has since denied.
I applaud Towers for his attempt at getting the best deal, but getting caught in that little white lie has to hurt his credibility. Teams are going to stick with their current offers or start taking players out of their current offers.
By David O'Brien
November 4, 2008 2:39 PM | Link to this
Efrim, Cortes is exactly the one that was mentioned to me.
Hey, Teahan doesn’t have quite the “high ceiling” that Francoeur does, but he’s a more consistent player with far better plate discipline and versatility (can play 1B, 3B and the OF).
By TennesseePaul
November 4, 2008 2:40 PM | Link to this
But IF he could be had for little to nothing (as in MAJOR salary dump by the Dodgers)
Not going to happen. To qualify as a salary dump the acquiring team would have to pick up the tab. In AJ’s case no team will pick up that tab. Period. It would be a major roster spot dump. They pay him to play for some other team simply because they would rather use that roster spot on anything elese. And I would imagine that to trade AJ, the Dodgers would have to cover about 95% of that salary if not more as well as prepare to get little talent in return.
By mbatl
November 4, 2008 2:44 PM | Link to this
N8, that was Erik Cordier the Braves got for Lil Tony Pena. He threw 40 innings at Rome this year. Not great success, but I think mgmt still has hopes for him if he can really get healthy. Nowhere near the bigs right now, though.
By N8
November 4, 2008 2:48 PM | Link to this
Buffalo NY Braves Fan
Bingo with your 2:38.
DOB
Agree with you about Teahan and his “ceiling”. Obviously he’s not gonna be the power hitter that Jeff showed early (and many still think he can find again), but he might be JUST WHAT the Braves need out of the guys in their lineup.
Do I smell a rebuttal from Shaun coming?
I can’t think of which radio announcer on the KC radio station said it the other day, but he considers himself a DIE HARD Royals fan (I think he’s been in KC for years). But he stated the other day that if Teahan is in the opening day lineup next year, he’s gonna be irrate.
Take that for what it’s worth. But the radio guys generally have a good “pulse” for what the fans are feeling. I realze that has ZERO bearing on what management/ownership does with players, but….
Imagine the Royals everyday lineup with Mike Jacobs (there plan is to put him at DG) AND Francoeur in the same lineup.
Yikes.
By MattyRoss
November 4, 2008 2:50 PM | Link to this
Hey DOB,
I don’t think this question’s been asked, but if it has I apologize. Is it within the realm of possibility that both of the MI are gone before the season starts? Perhaps Yunel goes in a Peavy trade and Kelly goes in a trade for an LF or other starter? Or would Wren not want to create another item on his shopping list by doing that?
Get out and vote, people
By RC
November 4, 2008 2:51 PM | Link to this
Just took a look at the Cortes stats….looks promising, although he appears to be a bit of an extreme flyball pitcher. That’s worrisome, but his K rate seems to be pretty good (so he’s not Chuck James part 2 at least), and it doesn’t appear that his control is a huge issue, though it could stand to get better. I’d defintely be interested to hear what the scouting reports on him say, but based on strictly stats he and Teahan seem to be a little light vs. Francouer’s value (IMO).
By Efrim
November 4, 2008 2:51 PM | Link to this
Yea, Teahan isn’t great, and is three years older than Francoeur, but his career stat line is 268/332/421. Not too much difference from Francoeur’s 268/312/434. Teahan is 2 years away from free agency while Frenchy is 3 years away.
But you need Cortes back in that deal. Have to have him. Their second best pitching prospect is thought to have an injury, Carlos Rosa.
By mbatl
November 4, 2008 2:52 PM | Link to this
Among all the other reasons I don’t want AJ back, I really don’t want the Braves to have to go through the propsect of DFA’ing him when he proves unable to contribute.
One divorce is enough. Don’t put yourself through it twice!
By N8
November 4, 2008 2:54 PM | Link to this
T-Paul
You are correct about the “salary” dump vs. the “Get the hell out of our club-house” Dump, involving Andruw.
Like I said, if they release him, or are willing to pay most of his salary for somebody to rid them of him….I’d be slightly interested, provided he has to compete and earn a spot on the roster just like the kids will next spring.
I merely mis-stated my point. Thank you for correcting me.
I seriously doubt that Andruw is wearing Dodger Blue by March. Maybe he took “lessons” from Manny on how to force your way out of town. LOL!
mbatl
Thanks. For the life of me, couldn’t remember. Could have looked it up myself, but wanted to here from somebody that knew of how he did last year upon returning from injury. Don’t remember hearing much about him.
By Efrim
November 4, 2008 2:57 PM | Link to this
N8
Imagine the Royals everyday lineup with Mike Jacobs (there plan is to put him at DG) AND Francoeur in the same lineup.
Kinda like the Braves lineup with Francoeur and Khalil Greene?
Double Yikes.
By David O'Brien
November 4, 2008 3:00 PM | Link to this
OK, push that ETA back by 30 minutes for the new blog. Got distracted. Bunch of idle hacks here, wasting time and sharing info/speculation/rumors while waiting for agents and GMs to get out of morning meetings.
By RC
November 4, 2008 3:00 PM | Link to this
Teahen’s #’s: .255/.313/.402 with 31 2b, 15 HR, and 131 K
Francouer’s #’s: .239/.294/.359 with 33 2b, 11 HR, and 111 K
Wow. Honestly, I think the team would be better off with Brandon Jones in RF than either of them if this is what they will produce each year. For what it’s worth, Teahen bats lefty, which would just be one more lefty bat in a lineup that already leans strongly that way (and would be losing Francouer’s RHB).
By jj
November 4, 2008 3:04 PM | Link to this
Man if anyone wants Frenchy put his butt on the road to KC. Take Teahan and Cortes, make the deal asp.
Mr Greene in Atlanta would be like a new birth. The kid would play like its Christmas. He wants out of SD and Braves would be fresh air.
God Bless the USA….
By RC
November 4, 2008 3:04 PM | Link to this
Also for what it’s worth, according to VORP (I know it’s a saber-stat, but it has some value), Francouer was 17.3 worse than a replacement level player last year (meaning AAA callup level player). That’s not just a hole in the lineup, that’s actually a negative pull on the lineup…
By David O'Brien
November 4, 2008 3:06 PM | Link to this
Patrick, they called and I was on the phone. Then they called back and I accidentally hit “reject” instead of “accept.”
And so it goes….
By Taylor S
November 4, 2008 3:08 PM | Link to this
DOB … If Javy Vazquez is really on the market do you see the Braves being interested ? Sounds like a pretty good fit.
By N8
November 4, 2008 3:09 PM | Link to this
mbatl
Don’t get me wrong. I don’t really want AJ back either.
I’m just thinking outloud, and am really thinking of him in a “competition” for the LF/4th OF slot. Maybe even a Jones/Jones platoon in LF?
But I have to agree with you, if they dump him at the end of spring training, it will have that feeling like when they dumped Avery after an attempted comeback.
But all nostalgia and “personal” feelings asside, if the Dodgers dump him, and he can be had for little to zero risk, it’s worth a look. Anything above what they are paying for Norton is too much. LOL!
Hope that clarifies how I feel about AJ.
By N8
November 4, 2008 3:12 PM | Link to this
Efrim
“Kinda like the Braves lineup with Francoeur and Khalil Greene?”
Now, just think if they were to bring back Andruw!?!
Triple Yikes!
By theBOD
November 4, 2008 3:13 PM | Link to this
This blog is lame! and so is the host!!
By N8
November 4, 2008 3:15 PM | Link to this
The ONLY reason to want Khalil on this team, is so we could make Spicoli references ALL year long, instead of just when the Braves play the Padres.
I can just see the blog now after ANOTHER strikeout by Greene…..
“No Shirt, No Shoes……NO DICE!”
By Wayne
November 4, 2008 3:20 PM | Link to this
N8 I have always liked Teahan, for his versatility. He might be the sort of player that could take over at third in a few years, whenever it’s timme for Hoss to ride off into the sunset.
As I have stated on here many times, and I seem to get nobody to concur, our biggest issue after Tex was dispatched, was having our best two hitters missing so many games (McCann with a catchers required rest, and Hoss with his assorted injuries). We need someone who can step in and fill a roll when these guys are out.
I am not saying I would keep a guy like Teahan (or Casey Blake or Ty Wiggington) on the bench when Chipper plays, but I think it would be easier to move a guy like Teahan in from left or right to fill in at third, then bring in an outfielder off the bench that has more pop than Prado or Infante.
I am torn on trading a guy like Francoeur. Is there any way of doing a Frenchy/Morton deal for Teahan/Greinke? Probably we would need to increase the offering.
By BravesFanInRockies
November 4, 2008 3:20 PM | Link to this
As DOB noted, Teahen could play either corner OF slot. So if we traded Francouer it would really be to give each player a change of scenery. And I wouldn’t object.
Besides, he came up as a 3B, and if I’m not mistaken we’re going to need one of those in a couple of years …
For 2009 and beyond we’d still need another bat, of course, until Heyward’s ready.
By TennesseePaul
November 4, 2008 3:26 PM | Link to this
In a brief defense of this mullet sportin’ jock, Greene isn’t quite that bad outside of Petco.
For his career on the road (almost identical sample size as at home) .270/.318/.484.
Not too impressive with the on base factor, granted. But the overwhelming majority of his extra base hits come outside of Petco which amounts to an .800 OPS for his career outside of Petco.
By Steve from OH
November 4, 2008 3:30 PM | Link to this
The scouting report on Cortes (6-6, 225 lbs) is 93-97 MPH fastball, touching 99, with tail. Good curve. Baseball America projects him as a #1 starter, and gave him the best fastball and best curveball grades for the Royals’ system (he’s their #2 prospect behind Moustakas).
So, this guy seems to be good…I think I would do that deal.
DOB, do you think KC would seriously consider that package? I really can’t fathom why they would…
By Dan
November 4, 2008 3:42 PM | Link to this
DOB
Let’s assume that the Braves trade for Peavy. This will require a package of prospects, making it unlikely that the Braves would trade more prospects for an impact OF bat.
Given this scenario (which is likely), who will be playing LF for Atlanta next year?
By Wayne
November 4, 2008 3:45 PM | Link to this
Good to see that AJ Burnett is a man of his word, in announcing whether he will opt out before the start of the GM meetings.
By William
November 4, 2008 3:46 PM | Link to this
DOB I heard through some media outlet that Jake Peavy said he didn’t want go to the Braves because he didn’t see the Braves competing with the Mets or Phillies.
By Lew
November 4, 2008 3:50 PM | Link to this
TenPaul-It always makes me wonder why people think no one can hit at Petco. It should negate some HR numbers, but no one ever heard of hitting the ball to the gaps?
Batting average and doubles really shouldn’t go down because of a pitcher’s park unless you’re dealing with fly ball hitters-I could see why Klesko didn’t like it, but I would bet that Tony Gwynn would have torn it up. I don’t see why line drive hitters should have such drastically lower numbers.
Seems that anyone who couldn’t hit in Petco would have a hard time at Turner Field, too. It may not be QUITE the pitcher’s park that Petco is, but it ain’t the Launching Pad or Citibank, either.
By Nate
November 4, 2008 3:53 PM | Link to this
Frenchy really stunk last year, and so his trade value is at an all time low. Even if its unlikely, its still possible that he may turn it around and still be a productive part of the team. With no power hitters in the infield, the Braves are gonna need 25 HR’s out of Frenchy next year even if they do acquire two other outfielders. There’s at least chance that will happen with Frenchy. No way you’re gonna get 25 HR’s out of Teahen.
By Anders
November 4, 2008 3:57 PM | Link to this
Dan
Let’s assume that the Braves trade for Peavy. This will require a package of prospects,
Haven’t you heard? Towers has been told by ownership he must trade Peavy now! He was told by Peavy that he Only wants to go to the Braves. He was told by the Braves they will only give him a bag of balls for Peavy. You get to keep all your prospects.
At least that’s the way it reads on this blog with DOB leading the way.
By nolie
November 4, 2008 4:02 PM | Link to this
But I would like to see the rest of the rankings…I would like to see where Mr. Gold Glove 3b David Wright ranks on that listDanga
The Fielding Bible for 2008 ranks Beltre as the best and Wright as 6th. Chipper is not listed in the top ten or the bottom 5 so I didn’t find him. Beltre
Longoria
Rolen
Hannahan
Crede
Wright
Lowell
Feliz
Zimmerman
Rodriguez
By ncscoots
November 4, 2008 4:07 PM | Link to this
Jeez, fellows, you think you might want to keep at least ONE right-handed bat on the 25-man, LOL? Mercy. Wren’s bleeding from the ear because of working the phones for a RH banger, and you guys are ready to trade for yet another lefty.
Oh, and nobody tell uga-brave that KC fans actually LIKE the idea of Francoeur. I don’t know if his mind can take wrestling with the dichotomy. :-)
By Wayne
November 4, 2008 4:07 PM | Link to this
Anders are you vying for the “your and idiot” award of the afternoon w/ your 3:57pm comments? And I thought you were trying to be civil.
By Fanders
November 4, 2008 4:08 PM | Link to this
Anders is at it again. His raging idiocy doesn’t even take a break during the offseason.
By Mike S
November 4, 2008 4:10 PM | Link to this
I agree with Nate. Francouer’s value is too low to sell now. I understand that if he tanks again this year, his value will be even worse, but I have to think there’s a pretty good chance he’ll bounce back. He certainly seems motivated to. I think his upside outweighs the risk in holding on to him. Teahan doesn’t have nearly as much potential (and we’d be even worse off against LHP’s).
By Lew
November 4, 2008 4:11 PM | Link to this
Anders-Dude as usual you’re exaggerating. Plenty of us have cautioned against giving away the farm for Peavy and have voiced concern for the state of his elbow. Many of us have also suggested alternatives to Peavy’s acquistion.
Face it Dude, you’re just concerned that the Braves might just pull off their goal of picking up two really good pitchers and a power hitting outfielder. If they do, they are much more likely (actually definitely) to be competitive with the Mets.
BTW-what’s the Mets’ rotation looking like next year without Pedro or Perez? How about closer? How about second base? Y’all have plenty of questions yourselves about whether or not you’ll be able to break your string of tankings.
By Anders
November 4, 2008 4:12 PM | Link to this
William
I heard through some media outlet that Jake Peavy said he didn’t want go to the Braves because he didn’t see the Braves competing with the Mets or Phillies.
BLASPHEMY!!!!!
By Efrim
November 4, 2008 4:18 PM | Link to this
Steve from OH
Here is a take on Cortes from Keith Law in last weeks chat…..maybe they are souring on him?
Patrick (Chicago): KLaw! Love the chats. What do you make of Dan Cortes’s awful start in the AFL?
Keith Law: He’s further away than I would have thought a month ago. He’s still pretty raw. I’ve also heard that his off-field issues are … well, they’re something to consider when valuing him.
Off-field issues?
By Efrim
November 4, 2008 4:23 PM | Link to this
ncscoots
Dayton Moore drafted the guy, so I am sure they would be interested in Frenchy……
….now, that doesn’t mean it is a smart move for the Royals who were thought to be seeking players that got on base at a high rate.
But they have already acquired Mike Jacobs, so I am sure they wouldn’t mind getting another guy with a sub 320 On base % mark.
By Fire Towers
November 4, 2008 4:23 PM | Link to this
Trade Jo Jo, Brandon Jones, Charlie Morton and Yunel escobar to the padres for Peavy and Green
You think Towers actually wants to get fired?Fire Tower
By David O'Brien
November 4, 2008 4:35 PM | Link to this
NEW BLOG
By Buffalo NY Braves Fan
November 4, 2008 4:35 PM | Link to this
Anders,
While trying to remain somewhat objective in the Peavy discussion I understand you are a Mets fan and are still trying to recover from the second choke job in 2 years by your team.
If Sabathia signs before Peavy is traded, what teams do you think are going to jump into the Peavy bidding? Maybe the Dodgers? St. Louis, Chicago, and Houston aren’t in the bidding for CC. The only “home run” that would be hit for Towers is if he makes a deal now and gets rid of both Peavy and Greene.
The Yankees, Mets, and Redsox are not on Peavys list of teams, so there will be no bidding wars for his services.
But please keep telling yourself that he won’t be in Atlanta next year…. and while you’re at it keep thinking that Santana will win 30 games for you next year and lead you to the playoffs….. oh wait that was last off-season wasn’t it?
By Park
November 4, 2008 4:46 PM | Link to this
Seems that anyone who couldn’t hit in Petco would have a hard time at Turner Field, too. It may not be QUITE the pitcher’s park that Petco is, but it ain’t the Launching Pad or Citibank, eitherLew
you need to take a look at the park rating factors at ESPN. Petco is much more pitcher-friendly than the Ted is
By Anders
November 4, 2008 4:48 PM | Link to this
Lew
As I said on here before, I fully expect the Braves to get Peavy. The question is the price. As for my concern about them getting him, hey I’d be happy if they stunk as much as they did last year but that’s not realistic. But I don’t see Peavy as that much of an upgrade over Hudson that I would take the Braves seriously. Plus I don’t know who the second guy you say they’ll get is yet. That aside, the Braves have lots of holes in their positions as well. Sounds like they’re ready to jettison wonder boy from right. CF is still a ? as is left. Chipper is Chipper but I only have to worry about him for 120 games a year. Confidence in your SS doesn’t seem high as his name is being bandied about in trades on this blog. Second base is ok. 1st seems ok but it’s quite a drop off from what you went into last season with. Catcher is solid and will probably get even better. How is this team better than last years?
As for the Mets, they’ll stay with most of what they had last year on the field. If things break right I think they’ll try and get Orlando Hudson for second and eat Castillo’s contract. Minaya said otherwise but I’m not sure he isn’t just posturing. I did hear they had some concerns about Schneider behind the plate which suprised me so we’ll see about that. As for pitching - Fuentes sounds real interested in NY. I think they’ll scour the reliever market like everyone else. I also think they’ll pick up another number 3 or 4 starter (Could be Perez resign). Maine will be back. Santana, Maine, Pelfrey, new starter and ? . That’s a good start.
Remember, they may have fallen short the last two years but they’ve been in 1st place for more than 2 1/2 of the last 3 years and have missed out by 1 game each of the last 2. The hill they have to climb isn’t near what your Braves are facing.
By ncscoots
November 4, 2008 4:48 PM | Link to this
Efrim, no kidding they would be interested, LOL. Francoeur may not ever become the player he thinks he ought to be, but coming anywhere close would be enough to label that proposed Teahen deal a bad one.
By bernie
November 4, 2008 6:57 PM | Link to this
Don’t worry when it is all said and done the Braves won’t help the team at all. Wren will wait till all the top tier players are gone and pitching and hitting will suffer another year and forget about the playoffs another year in 2009.Remember Wren gave up on the team in 2008. Tex is available as a free agent and we know what he can do Wren.
By gator fan
November 4, 2008 7:27 PM | Link to this
Good stuff, DOB.
Mark Bradley just predicted that the Braves will get Roger Clemens and Barry Bonds. What do you know, he’s wrong again.
How about them Bulldogs!?
By gator fan
November 4, 2008 7:29 PM | Link to this
DOB, great stuff as always. Please tell Mark Bradley hello from the University of Florida.
By gator fan
November 4, 2008 7:29 PM | Link to this
DOB, great stuff as always. Please tell Mark Bradley hello from the University of Florida.
By Philliesuk
November 4, 2008 8:42 PM | Link to this
I’m sure I’m in the minority here, but I would rather not trade for Peavy. We have a hell of a lot of a great young talent, and I’d rather not lose any of them.
When I look at our roster, I think the Braves are built for 2010. 2009 will be a re-building year of sorts. That’s not to say that we won’t contend for a playoff spot; I just think that things will be more in-place in 2010.
With that in mind, I would rather the Braves do the following: 1. Bring Jordan Schafer up on opening day 2009 2. Sign either Lowe or Burnett, preferably Lowe 3. Sign someone in the OF who is guaranteed to hit at least 30 HR 4. Sign Will Ohman 5. Strengthen the bench and bullpen with a few minor trades
In 2010, Hanson can pitch, and who knows, maybe Heyward can be brought up in the summer 2010. And don’t even think of bringing back Andruw Jones. Are you serious?!
By Philliesuk
November 4, 2008 8:56 PM | Link to this
I’m sure I’m in the minority here, but I would rather not trade for Peavy. We have a hell of a lot of a great young talent, and I’d rather not lose any of them.
When I look at our roster, I think the Braves are built for 2010. 2009 will be a re-building year of sorts. That’s not to say that we won’t contend for a playoff spot; I just think that things will be more in-place in 2010.
With that in mind, I would rather the Braves do the following: 1. Bring Jordan Schafer up on opening day 2009 2. Sign either Lowe or Burnett, preferably Lowe 3. Sign someone in the OF who is guaranteed to hit at least 30 HR 4. Sign Will Ohman 5. Strengthen the bench and bullpen with a few minor trades
In 2010, Hanson can pitch, and who knows, maybe Heyward can be brought up in the summer 2010. And don’t even think of bringing back Andruw Jones. Are you serious?!
By Mark Y
November 4, 2008 10:03 PM | Link to this
No way in hell are you getting Cortez with Teahen for Frenchy. We’re offering because we’re willing to take a chance he’ll bounce back, cause last year his stats were worse that Teahen’s….why would we throw in our best Minor League Pitcher with the deal? Out of your minds. And he can play everything but middle inflield, pitch or catch.
By Geoff
November 5, 2008 8:49 AM | Link to this
Why would we send a top young prospect in a deal for Francoeur? I can see Teahen and a prospect, but not a top one and certainly not a top young pitching prospect. When you look at AL vs. NL tendancies. And then Aviles is not even touchable at this point. You Braves fans are showing just how spoiled fans of Big Market teams have become. Dayton Moore is about acquiring pitching not unloading all of it. With the trade of Nunez, I don’t see us trading away much more pitching unless it is for a truly legitimate long term difference maker, and I just doubt that Francoeur is that.
By marshall
November 5, 2008 11:49 AM | Link to this
Not to change the subject but does anyony know if the Braves are looking at signing Adam Dunn? He is a free agent this year from Arizona…reds traded him this year. I know he is prone to strikeout but if you look at his stats closer, you will find some intresting facts. If you exclude his stikeouts he only makes about 40-50 out a year out of 300-350 at bats…that’s a great on base percentage. Under Pendleton, i think he would reduce that strikeout total and more hits. Plus he is only 29 fixing to hit his prime. He is like Tex and Chipper in the fact that he is a switch hitter. And it would give Chipper a feared bat behind him that made him so effected when Tex was in the line up. I know he is average on defence, but can be covered by a good centerfielder. His defense is as good as Manny’s. What do you guys think?