Braves

By McFann

October 29, 2008 5:02 PM | Link to this

First!!

By Original Jon

October 29, 2008 5:09 PM | Link to this

Thanks for another great, but short, blog DOB To be completely honest with you, I want Tampa to win the series because I just cannot pull for the Phillies, but I want the free agent filing period to begin ASAP, and in order to do that, Philies would need to win tonight. Oh what a mess.

By jrjags

October 29, 2008 5:14 PM | Link to this

I was legitimately excited about this series when it started. New teams and a chance for National League redemption. But it has been underwhelming. Sloppy play in the field, baserunning errors, atrocious hitting by Pena and Longoria, embarrassing umpiring, and not least of all, the weather. Hopefully it will end and we can get on to more interesting aspects of baseball.

By Joe M.

October 29, 2008 5:24 PM | Link to this

Thanks for the new blog, Chief!

By hadron

October 29, 2008 5:25 PM | Link to this

Thanks Chief?

By Original Jon

October 29, 2008 5:25 PM | Link to this

You know, it should be mandatory that all baseball stadiums have retractable roofs. That way there is never a game delay or any postponed games.

By Wayne

October 29, 2008 5:27 PM | Link to this

Leftovers from the previous blog.

Who’d ever thought Braves fans and Anders would have common ground. I am with you. BTW, I was a Mets fan back in ‘69 after they beat my Braves in the first divisional series in the NL.

Ed Charles, Ed Kranepool, Art Shamsky, Donn Clendenon, Tommy Agee, Bud Harrelson, Wayne Garrett, Ron Taylor, Jerry Koosman, Tom Terrific, Ken Boswell, Jerry Grote, Gil Hodges, Dan Frisella, Gary Gentry, Tug McGraw, Nolan Ryan, Al Weis, Cleon Jones, and Ron Swoboda (my personal favorite).

Those are all I can remember off the top of my head, but I am sure I am forgetting a couple of other important members.

So, we have some things in common! (not much, but some…)

:-)

By McFann O –[brr!]

October 29, 2008 5:29 PM | Link to this

“McFann”—

HEY!!

RC After seeing McFann’s stats, Infante HAS to bat 4th next year! He got a hit without even having an AB after Chipper was walked!

Whoops! I meant 0-1, not 1-0. Sorry ‘bout that.

By Jeff R

October 29, 2008 5:30 PM | Link to this

Hope management chooses to retain Ohman. If I recall, Wren could sign him in the $3 million range per season.

I think playing the World Series this late in October makes no sense. The weather delay has taken some of the excitement away from the event. And as you said, DOB, late starts and late finishes are horrible. Not the way baseball was intended to be played.

By Wayne

October 29, 2008 5:33 PM | Link to this

Dave Thanks for the Ohman story. I sure hope we can work it out to keep him.

Original Jon As you are, I too am torn on the Series and the free agent filing period. If Tampa wins tonight, I suspect I will get re-energized.

Go Rays!

By Joe M.

October 29, 2008 5:38 PM | Link to this

You know, it should be mandatory that all baseball stadiums have retractable roofs

Heck no!

Baseball is meant to be played outside, in the sun. If it is raining, than delay or postpone. Way better option than an eyesore roof.

And football? What is their excuse? They don’t cancel games for weather and a lot of them play in those idiotic domes….a big reason I’ve never been to a Falcons game in my lifetime.

By Braveheart

October 29, 2008 5:42 PM | Link to this

When it is brutally cold, I sure don’t want to feel the cannonballs fired by madson, lidge or price hitting the end of my bat or on my fists. You might as well put your hands into a hornet’s nest if you want to know what the sting is gonna feel like when these guys somehow make contact tonight

By Braveheart

October 29, 2008 5:43 PM | Link to this

Bud Selig should be like Isiah Thomas and just blame his daughter for the situation

By Bobby's Cox

October 29, 2008 5:43 PM | Link to this

I disagree DOB,

I hope the series goes 7. What better way for the sport to redeem itself? Baseball always finds a way. I remember a game in 2004 where non-baseball fans were glued to a Red Sox/Yankess game 4 that went on to the wee hours of the night. I’m eager for fanatics to switch from football to baseball to see one helluva ending in game 7.

There’s plenty of David Price to go around in a series that goes 7. He can go 3+ to start the suspension today, come around and pitch some more in relief in a thrilling Fall Classic in game 7. This series has been Philthy, no doubt, but it shouldn’t end that way.

By cabravesfan

October 29, 2008 5:44 PM | Link to this

Thanks for hte update on Ohman…really like the guy and he was an important part of our pen last year- hope we can keep him

You know, it should be mandatory that all baseball stadiums have retractable roofs. That way there is never a game delay or any postponed games.

Nice idea but how do you propose to pay for that? Retractable roofs are not cheap…a better idea is to not have so many off days between play off games and, oh, i don’t know, NOT START THE SEASON A WEEK LATER THEN NORMAL (just a thought)

By McFann O –[brr!]

October 29, 2008 5:44 PM | Link to this

AHEM……Thank you for the new Blog…Chief.

Good stuff from Ohman!

By cabravesfan

October 29, 2008 5:45 PM | Link to this

By the way I am by no means endorsing domed stadiums- always hated them…

By Bobby's Cox

October 29, 2008 5:51 PM | Link to this

To Braveheart’s disgust,

There was a popular debate on the last blog that was not started by me. Somehow my name came up, but I in no way want to go there.

Instead, I want to talk Nelson Cruz. Seriously, can’t we get this guy for James Parr and Diaz?

By Brian

October 29, 2008 5:53 PM | Link to this

VERY smart move if the Braves re-sign this guy because we all know how important those guys(bullpen) are, especially in the postseason! I think they will.

Hopefully Ohman reads this because releivers harldy ever get the credit they deserve!

By McFann O –[brr!]

October 29, 2008 5:53 PM | Link to this

Ohman, who interrupted the phone call to tell his son that he’d banged away enough on the piano and that it was time to get ready for his nap.

LOL! Yeah, the piano is a beautiful instrument…but if you bang on it a couple times, it’s one of the worst sounding instruments—after the badly-played violin.

By Jake

October 29, 2008 5:56 PM | Link to this

I disagree Joe M. Domes are suitable for some cities who are subject to weather patterns that aren’t good baseball weather like Milwaukee, Florida, and that hot desert weather out in Arizona. The problem with cities like Philadelphia is that once fall rolls around on the east coast weather becomes less predictable. Atlanta’s weather right now is not that far off from Philly. Football is a completely different sport and there is no comparison to baseball. Football kind of embraces the elements. Domes aren’t bad for football either. The dome in atlanta allows us to host bowls, championship series, and tournaments that wouldn’t be considered for cities without them.

By TampaGator

October 29, 2008 5:57 PM | Link to this

If the umpires have anything to do with it, and they have had a lot to do with the outcomes of cames so far, the Phillies will wrap it up tonight. I have never seen such one-sided umpiring (in favor of the Phillies) in all my life…not since the fat guy umpire behind the place in the Braves/Marlins series a few years back (I still believe that guy was kicked out of umpiring because he took money to throw that game to the Marlins). Everyone if Tampa thinks these umps are on the take. It sure appears to be the case. Pitches thrown down the middle are balls for the Rays, and balls a foot outside are strikes for the Phillies. Balks are not balks for the Phillies. And tag outs at third are not tag outs if you are tagging out a Phillie. It is a shame that the umpires have pre-determined who is going to win this series. It is obvious that that is the case.

By Duke

October 29, 2008 6:00 PM | Link to this

DOB, new SOA tonight. Should be a pretty dicey one too. Jax has a lot on his hands after last weeks brutal ending… Trying to profit off the guns and Sich. Have you heard Aaron Harangs name come up any? Seems as if Bobby likes him and he has upside, plus he eats a lot of innings.

By Braveheart

October 29, 2008 6:09 PM | Link to this

And football? What is their excuse? They don’t cancel games for weather and a lot of them play in those idiotic domes….a big reason I’ve never been to a Falcons game in my lifetime.

I hear ya on that. I can’t stand the Georgia Dome. But domes make it easier to get stadiums built and make it easier to have income generating events besides the 8 football games a year ….. like the Final Four, the SEC basketball tournament, the SEC football championship, the Chick-Fil-A Bowl, the state high school football playoffs and the Super Bowl in areas outside of Florida and California.

It’s about generating revenue. Stadiums are more visually pleasing but don’t generate as much revenue outside of the 8 football games a year. Without alternative sources of potential revenue, it’s awfully hard to justify to the taxpayers building a stadium for only 8 football games a year of revenue (for a stadium that will likely be outdated in 10 to 15 years, thus requiring building a new one)..

As for retractable domes, those are sometimes more costly than just a dome or just a stadium. Even though the NFL promised New York/New Jersey a Super Bowl if they built a retractable dome to replace Giants Stadium, the decision was made not build a retractable dome because the retractable roof would have cost an extra $200 million dollars….. a cost that may have altogether nixed the building of any new facility because the state and the taxpayers wouldn’t have forked over the money for it. …..

so instead they are building a new stadium instead of a regular dome or a retractable dome …. key to that I’m sure is that the area already gets NCAA basketball regionals at the Meadowlands, is not a likely location for a BCS football conference championship, is not a likely location for a bowl game since they’re not that crazy about college football in the New York metro area, and the Big East basketball tournament is already conducted in Madison Square Garden.

The only real extra potential source of revenue would have been the Super Bowl. I’m guessing they made the decision that the revenue generated by the Super Bowl would not offset the cost to the taxpayers of a $200 million dollar retractable roof.

By McFann O –[brr!]

October 29, 2008 6:12 PM | Link to this

cabravesfan a better idea is to not have so many off days between play off games and, oh, i don’t know, NOT START THE SEASON A WEEK LATER THEN NORMAL

AMEN!! April 6 is WAY too late!! Don’t know if I cann wait that long!

By Joe M.

October 29, 2008 6:15 PM | Link to this

Football kind of embraces the elements.

Than why are there are so many more roofed stadiums in football?

Screw indoor baseball and football. If the Atlanta Braves ever play if a dumb roofed park (which the Ted thankfully does not have), that is the day I never attend another Braves’ game.

By Jim

October 29, 2008 6:15 PM | Link to this

If you are going to play at night, start the game at 7:30, not the pre-game hype, but the game itself, and maybe it will end before 11:00 and maybe some kids will get to see a few innings anyway.

I go back to the age of day games in the World Series and 8-team leagues. (I was actually at the Stadium for Don Larsen’s perfect game — the only WS game I ever saw live.) Back then, we all smuggled our transistor radios into school to keep up with the games while the classes were going on. With only 16 teams there were only 10-15 different cities represented (changing during the 50’s with moves of the Braves, Browns, A’s, Dodgers, and Giants). So fans in other parts of the country adopted teams to root for. Thus the 2 teams in the series represented 1/8 of the fan base (more by volume because more fans rooted for the better teams). Today the series represents 1/15 of the fan distribution. The extended season, the increased playoff rounds, the greater fragmentation of the fan base, the greater overlapping of the sport season, and the hours during which the games are played have all contributed to the diminished interest in the Series.

By cabravesfan

October 29, 2008 6:21 PM | Link to this

McFann

Not only is it way too late- Game 7 of the World Series would be played on November 5…anyone else see a problem with that?

By Wayne

October 29, 2008 6:28 PM | Link to this

cabravesfan Not if it’s the Angels against San Diego…

By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)

October 29, 2008 6:31 PM | Link to this

Wrigley Field, Fenway Park or domed stadiums.

I’ll stick with the status quo. The Twins play in a damn glad bag. they are building a new park (Target Field) and it won’t have a roof.

By Original Jon

October 29, 2008 6:34 PM | Link to this

Well, this year is the World Baseball Classic, so that might be why its starting a few days later than normal. But I agree with some that the season should be shortened by about 10 games.

By McFann O –[brr!]

October 29, 2008 6:34 PM | Link to this

cabravesfan—

I got a big problem with it. As much as I love baseball, it’s supposed to be over by November.

And I’m sure all the Northern contenders feel the same way.

By matlanta

October 29, 2008 6:41 PM | Link to this

DOB,

so magglio ordonez is available for trade, any thoughts on the braves being in on that? he’s a boras client, set to make about $51M over the next 3 years, which is about market value for a guy of his caliber. apparently the tigers are looking for a shortstop, a catcher, and bullpen help — think the braves could pull off a trade if they put together a package similar to escobar, soriano, and flowers?

By Jake

October 29, 2008 6:41 PM | Link to this

I agree with you on that Joe. I love the Ted and I don’t want them to make baseball in Atlanta ever domed. I was just saying in some cities they really need them. What I meant by football embracing the weather is that when that bad weather comes to places like New England they are not going to postpone or delay a game, they just play. I agree with braveheart though in that in atlanta because of the dome we get to host all those other events besides just football for the falcons.

By cabravesfan

October 29, 2008 6:43 PM | Link to this

Wayne

You have a point (it is still gorgeous out here…was 85 today) but everyone else may see things a little differently:)

By BrandonC

October 29, 2008 6:45 PM | Link to this

I would LOVE to see Ohman in a Braves uni next season.

By keylargo

October 29, 2008 7:01 PM | Link to this

I bet cabravesfan would not like a 7:30 start time too much since she would still be at work at 4:30 in California. That would have to take some of the fun out of the Braves being in the series.

so magglio ordonez is available for trade, any thoughts on the braves being in on that? he’s a boras client, set to make about $51M over the next 3 years, which is about market value for a guy of his caliber. apparently the tigers are looking for a shortstop, a catcher, and bullpen help — think the braves could pull off a trade if they put together a package similar to escobar, soriano, and flowers? malanta

Yes, the Braves would make that deal if Boras promised to retire and send the Braves $100,000,000 for being a pain in the but all these years.

By 18 Wheels of Love

October 29, 2008 7:01 PM | Link to this

DOB,

The Secret Life of Bees…I want your review.

18WOL

By Efrim

October 29, 2008 7:08 PM | Link to this

Ken Rosenthal has a new article up:

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8734330/Brewers-set-to-throw-$100-million-at-CC

Here is the part about Peavy to the Braves:

The Braves and Padres remain at an impasse in their trade discussions concerning right-hander Jake Peavy, sources say.

The Padres are believed to be asking for five players, knowing the Braves parted with that many when they acquired first baseman Mark Teixeira and left-hander Ron Mahay from the Rangers.

Of course, the players and combinations remain fluid, and the final package could hinge on whether the Braves take back shortstop Khalil Greene as a replacement for Yunel Escobar, who likely would be included in the deal.

For the moment, the Braves remain opposed to trading Class AA right-hander Tommy Hanson, who has pitched 8 2/3 scoreless innings in the Arizona Fall League and could be in the Atlanta rotation next season.

The Padres’ discussions with other clubs about Peavy also are quiet, but the talks are certain to resume next week at the general managers’ meetings in Dana Point, Ca.

By mbatl

October 29, 2008 7:13 PM | Link to this

escobar, soriano, and flowers

That, plus $51 mil, for Ordonez? Geez!

I’d love to have the guy, but you don’t give up a young starting SS and a top-10 prospect when the other side wants nothing but salary relief.

How ‘bout Lillibridge and Royce Ring for Ordonez?

And, the fact that Boras is his agent doesn’t really matter in a trade situation.

By McFann O –[brr!]

October 29, 2008 7:18 PM | Link to this

Original Jon Well, this year is the World Baseball Classic

Oh yeah…doggone it! When do they announce the rosters for that dumb thing?

(Please let there be no Braves in it!!)

By keylargo

October 29, 2008 7:18 PM | Link to this

I hope the Braves learned their lesson by letting Ron Mahay get away from them. I know they did not really pursue him, but he was every bit as good of a pitcher as Will Ohman is.

Both Ohman and Mahay had good years in 08 (VERY comparable stats). Mahay signed a two year deal with the Royals for $8 million and I believe it will take at least that to sign Ohman, but I think the Braves will at least make an offer in that range. Just hope someone doesn’t go 3 years and $15 million.

By BT

October 29, 2008 7:18 PM | Link to this

If double headers were good enough for Mickey Mantle they are good enough for Gregor Blanco!

By David O'Brien

October 29, 2008 7:22 PM | Link to this

18 Wheels, I haven’t seen it.

By keylargo

October 29, 2008 7:31 PM | Link to this

cabravesfan

How do you feel about starting times out there on the West Coast? I know I (east coast) would not mind the 7:30 start times for sporting events (and hate anything that starts at 9:00). But I know the West Coast and even Wayne in Utah has to be taken into consideration.

By McFann O –[brr!]

October 29, 2008 7:54 PM | Link to this

mbatl How ‘bout Lillibridge and Royce Ring for Ordonez?

Not bad…but didn’t they ditch Ring?

By Barack H. Obama

October 29, 2008 8:03 PM | Link to this

I’m so great I’m delaying the game with my 30 minute infomercial. Let me add that I hope you don’t think I totally stole the idea of buying large blocks of time on network channels from H. Ross Perot.

By mbatl

October 29, 2008 8:05 PM | Link to this

McFann, oh, I guess you’re right! Hard to keep up with our revolving door of lefty relievers!

By Braveheart

October 29, 2008 8:06 PM | Link to this

I hope the Braves learned their lesson by letting Ron Mahay get away from them. I know they did not really pursue him, but he was every bit as good of a pitcher as Will Ohman is

The lesson though may be that as good as they may be, Wren can find another just like them but cheaper.

Wren may already have his eyes set on two or three lefties he might be able to trade for who would be just as good ….. just like how he easily found Ohman to be just as good as Mahay.

I’d sign Ohman though. They need a strong back end of the bullpen.

There is another reason though that has nothing to do with money or baseball performance. This was a very rough year for the pen.

Boyer can be a turd, Soriano sulks, Acosta pouts and no one much cares to hear from the other middle relievers.

It seems to me that Ohman and maybe Gonzalez are much more gregarious and will shoulder the burden of taking fire from the media.

Imagine how rough this season could have been for the other relievers out there if a guy like Ohman wasn’t there to talk to DOB and keep the wolves at bay. A smile and a conversation with DOB by Ohman shields the less friendly and less accountable others from getting torn to shreds by the media and the fans.

Maybe that’s overrated but ……. younger, more sensitive relievers oftentimes need a tougher vet who is more comfortable in his skin like Ohman to do their talking and blame taking for them

And, as much as I sometimes give Smoltz a hard time about his mouthiness annoying me, Smoltz and Chipper, as the superstar vets, also shoulder the burden of keeping the media away from the kids who aren’t quite ready to take the weight just yet. If the kids want to hide in the trainer’s room, the vets will do their talking for them.

And I’ll say this for Smoltz, Ohman and Chipper, they don’t act like punks like Billy Wagner and Loduca and cry about taking the weight and say go over there and talk to Those Guys.

If you’re gonna take the weight, take it …… but spare us the b.s. hero/martyr complex about having to carry the weight like Wagner and Loduca did ……..

Maybe the Mets clubhhouse wouldn’t have crumbled the last two years if their so-called leaders acted like leaders instead of posing like leaders while crying like woe-is-me-martyrs.

I’ll give credit to David Wright though …… he does seem to shoulder the burden that Reyes won’t without ever crying about it or telling the media to go talk to Reyes.

By keylargo

October 29, 2008 8:08 PM | Link to this

McFann

I think the Tiggers are basically just trying to dump the salary on Ordonez, kind of like we will be in a year or two.

Only difference will be that we won’t be able to dump it and will have to eat it. We’ll have a couple of thumpers up from the farm, chomping at the bit to play and the Braves will just have to play Ordonez because we are paying him $18mm.

It’ll be quite an inglorious ending for the highest paid Brave.

By Kevin C

October 29, 2008 8:08 PM | Link to this

DOB

Are the Braves interested in Garret Anderson? Also if you had to take odds, what do you think regarding the Braves getting Peavy without Hanson in a deal?

Thanks

By keylargo

October 29, 2008 8:12 PM | Link to this

McFann

Would you rather watch the Phillies win the WS, listen to Barack O’Bama for 30 minutes, or just shut the computer off early and do some Algebra problems?

By cabravesfan

October 29, 2008 8:14 PM | Link to this

keylargo

I, of course, don’t mind the late starts at all- it’s nice to get home from work and see the start of a game instead of the 3rd inning…I have to deal with Braves games starting at 4:00 during the regular season which really sucks (thank god for Tivo and fast forward!) but I do understand the problems with starting a play-off game at 8:30 or later (NFL actually moved Monday Night Football becasue they realized 9:00 starts were ridiculous)

By David O'Brien

October 29, 2008 8:16 PM | Link to this

Kevin C, I really don’t know what the odds are, but I think there’s a fairly good chance the Braves can get Peavy without giving up Hanson. Or Heyward.

By David O'Brien

October 29, 2008 8:18 PM | Link to this

Braveheart, you made some good points, good observations about both the Braves and Mets.

By ncscoots

October 29, 2008 8:24 PM | Link to this

keylargo, It’s not that I’m man-crushing on Ordonez, but what’s a reasonable alternative for the next two years (assuming that studs-in-waiting actually do become studs for real)? A free agent is going to demand more than three years and at least similar money. Settle for a second- or third-tier OF just because he’s cheaper, and hope for the best? That doesn’t excite.

I’m not trying to bust chops here, but give me some hope for another answer, man, LOL. I’m way open to it. Until then, a reasonable trade scenario for Ordonez and his years and dollars seems the best option so far floated on the blog.

By BravesFanInRockies

October 29, 2008 8:35 PM | Link to this

Wayne (from last blog),

The Rox need a 2B, CF and arms, arms, arms.

They’d like KJ a lot. I don’t think the Braves would do that.

I also like Seth Smith, a 26-y.o. lefty OF who projects to be a better hitter than Spilborghs and was actually considered to be a better prospect than Tulo a couple of years back.

Prado and JoJo/Morton for Spilborghs might be doable, and the Braves would really like the results. Prado, Anderson and Medlen for those two might do it as well.

By caballo muerto

October 29, 2008 8:38 PM | Link to this

GO GO GO RAYS!

By McFann O –[brr!]

October 29, 2008 8:41 PM | Link to this

mbatl—

That’s OK. I had kinda forgotten about him till you mentioned it.

Keylargo—

Yeah, I’m not really for getting Ordonez—but if it weren’t for that huge salary it might not be too bad…though I don’t know a whole lot about him except that he hits, he has bad hair, and he plays for the Tigers right now.

As for your multiple choice Q—I’m gonna hafta go with the Algebra problems all the way!

I might watch bits and pieces of the WS…I’ll be like Ohman: If I walk in the room, and the WS is on, I’ll see what’s up.

OK…if y^2 = x+3…and x - 22 = -16…

By mbatl

October 29, 2008 8:50 PM | Link to this

man, seems like this has been a long game…

By keylargo

October 29, 2008 8:55 PM | Link to this

Scoots, I am really wary of the last year on Ordonez’s contract. I just don’t think he will be among the best three outfielders we will have and at $18 million, he NEEDS to be.

Say our payroll is $125 million. Guess who is making 14% of it? A bench player/pinch hitter that’s who. A number 1 or a number 2 pitchers salary.

I do admit I am more of a long term fan and not so much of an instant gratification type. I would rather rebuild and be strong for a long time instead of playing .525 ball and losing in the first round of the playoffs. And yes I realize that might mean another year or two out of the playoffs.

By AdirondackDave

October 29, 2008 8:56 PM | Link to this

Sure hope the Braves bring Ohman back, he did a heckuva job. (Not in the heckuva, Brownie sense, of course.)

By Eric from MO

October 29, 2008 8:57 PM | Link to this

Fans need to stop complaining. You hear in April that the season starts to early and in October that the season ends to late. Guess, it can rain anytime of the year. It can rain in any month of the year. Thats just the way it is.

By flange1

October 29, 2008 9:02 PM | Link to this

Evening All,

Been trying to recoup from the flu, so have been reading alot and not posting.

I like the talk about getting an Ordonez or a Dye for LF. In my mind they are EXACTLY what the Braves need, short contracts for competent hitters that add a veteran presence.

I don’t like the FA options for LF.

Getting Ordonez or Dye in a “salary dump” type of trade would be better.

We have money to spend, lets spend it.

I wonder if the Tigers would consider Lillibridge, B Jones and B Boyer for Ordonez? They need a SS, C and relief pitching, we cover 2 of those spots and give them a player to replace Mags in right….

Nice shot Rocco!

By Jake

October 29, 2008 9:03 PM | Link to this

1st hit for Baldelli in the series is a homerun. For all that guy has been through that’s great. The odds are on philly’s side but I hope the Rays can pull this off. They showed some fight all year. Playing in a division with the yanks and the sox should help the Rays.

By Jim

October 29, 2008 9:06 PM | Link to this

A good fielding decent hitting shortstop is more valuable than a good hitting average fielding OF. This is especially true if there is a significant age advantage for the SS. We don’t have a suitable replacement for Escobar in the system and Greene is not the same caliabre player as Escobar. We don’t need to pick up expensive older players like Ordonez and Anderson that their current clubs feel are no longer worth the money they cost.

By caballo muerto

October 29, 2008 9:06 PM | Link to this

WOO HOO!

I actually turned the sound back on for that Baldelli HR. Then, after cringingly listening to Buck and McCarver for 3 seconds, I quickly muted again.

By BravesFanInRockies

October 29, 2008 9:12 PM | Link to this

BTW, Peter Gammons apparently wrote today that MLB might consider moving the World Series to a neutral site, or at least a city with a dome (or Southern California, I suppose).

I don’t like it. Because every ballpark is different, baseball offers the biggest home field advantage of any sport. You’d lose that by moving the Series.

My answer is to lose a few off days during the regular season (and the postseason), schedule a few more double headers and have the World Series start earlier. But MLB won’t do that because it would cut into TV revenues. Dumb, really dumb.

By Robert

October 29, 2008 9:13 PM | Link to this

Is Joe Maddon trying to lose this game. He lets Balfour face Jenkins, then the LHP face Burrell. He is as bad as Bobby Cox

By McFann O –[brr!]

October 29, 2008 9:15 PM | Link to this

Eric—

Who’s says April is too early?

By jj

October 29, 2008 9:17 PM | Link to this

I hope the Braves do get Peavey and I would take Khailil Greene in the trade.I believe Green would have a great year in Atlanta with new team and Hubbie to work with him. I would not trade Hanson or Heyward unless I had to.

Go Rays!! DOB stay warm..Boy, the ball cares in that wind.

By Deep Throat

October 29, 2008 9:23 PM | Link to this

Is Joe Maddon trying to lose this game. He lets Balfour face Jenkins, then the LHP face Burrell. He is as bad as Bobby Cox

You kidding me? Bobby Cox went positively crazy this year with the whole lefty-righty thing (especially early in the season); blowing through 2-4 pitchers in a single inning with extreme regularity. It was like Bobby Cox got amnesia and thought he was Tony LaRussa.

By cameron

October 29, 2008 9:26 PM | Link to this

Watch this game 5 go long into extra innings haha. I really want the Rays to win this, but im read for the offseason to begin and lets all the trades start so we can get ready for next season. And im with Ohman trade for Peavy, sign Lowe. And oh yeah, sign Ohman also. And for all the people that suggested sign Baldelli, you know he has that desease that makes his body get so tired he can barely last through a whole game? Thats who yall want haha. Sign a big HR bat like Dunn, because that does 2 things to the lineup, not only is he a power threat, but think of the pitches Chipper Jones will get to hit with him behind him.

DOB What do you think of the Braves going to Tampa and trying to trade for one of thier young pitchers like Jackson, Sonninstine, etc?

By Bo

October 29, 2008 9:26 PM | Link to this

Agree ROBERT it looked alot like Bobby Cox trying to lose. But I hope Rays Win.

By Braveheart

October 29, 2008 9:31 PM | Link to this

A very bad sign for the Rays. The Rays are covering their ears and are all bundled up.

It reminds me of Michael Vick in Chicago and in philly for the conference championship game a few years ago. Vick sat on the bench the whole game bundled up in that big ole ridiculous winter coat that looked like a blanket, looking like he’d rather be anywhere but at that game. Ever since then I’ve believed that the dudes who bundle up are destined to lose.

An an outfielder, why would you cover your ears? It muffles the sound of the crack of the bat …….. it could be that it’s hard as heck to hear the crack of the bat anyway with the crowd and the weather but why take a chance of dulling any of your senses that assist you in gauging how well a ball is struck? Maybe I sound crazy but it seems to me like judging a flyball off the crack of the bat is done visually as well as maybe somewhat with the sound. Whatever the case may be, I wouldn’t chance it with ear muffs dulling any of my senses.

Would that first flyball have fallen in if they had judged the ball better off the crack of the bat?

By cameron

October 29, 2008 9:33 PM | Link to this

i guess the offseason will start tomorrow.

By Jake

October 29, 2008 9:39 PM | Link to this

Wouldn’t it be something if Brad Lidge picked this night to blow his first save of the year or at least that’s what i’m hoping.

By kirknga

October 29, 2008 9:43 PM | Link to this

So if Escobar is part of a Peavy trade, who replaces him at the top of the order?

I don’t see Green as a top of the order guy.

By McFann O –[brr!]

October 29, 2008 9:46 PM | Link to this

Jake—

I’d stand up and say “Yay!”

By McFann O –[brr!]

October 29, 2008 9:51 PM | Link to this

BTW—The answer to my algebra problem is y = 3, x = 6.

By A-villle Ranger

October 29, 2008 9:58 PM | Link to this

Congratulations to Philly,I called them in 6…oh well,nobody’s perfect.

By Philadelphia Riot Police

October 29, 2008 9:58 PM | Link to this

Uh-oh.

By cameron

October 29, 2008 10:03 PM | Link to this

Well gotta say congradulations to the Phillies. Now its time for the Braves to start building for thier World Series next year.

By cabravesfan

October 29, 2008 10:03 PM | Link to this

This has to be one of the signs of the apocalypse…

By StingerSplash

October 29, 2008 10:05 PM | Link to this

Congrats to the Phils. That is a very good team, good lineup, great bullpen, underrated starting pitching after Hamels. They earned it and they deserved it.

By kirknga

October 29, 2008 10:06 PM | Link to this

Well that’s a wrap for this season. Congrats to the Phillies.

Are we officially in hot stove time now?

By McFann O –[brr!]

October 29, 2008 10:09 PM | Link to this

Fooey.

By Thrillhouse44

October 29, 2008 10:09 PM | Link to this

Thrill’s thoughts on the Series:

1. I hate Philly.

2. Both teams have an unnecessary star on their uniform. Dotting the “i” in Phillies with a star is lame, but what in the world is the significance of the star on the Rays’ uni?

3. Why are all championship hats so fugly? You rarely see a decent looking one.

4. Man, Ken Rosenthals looked like a midgit, didn’t he?

By richbrave

October 29, 2008 10:11 PM | Link to this

keylargo:

OBAMA for 30, hands down.

By 22oz

October 29, 2008 10:13 PM | Link to this

To add to the misery, we get to see Boog in the background interview Rollins with an ESPN microphone? Why Boog why? I’m confused how someone can work for BOTH ESPN and Foxsports. Conflict of interest if you ax me.

By Mr. J

October 29, 2008 10:13 PM | Link to this

Kirknga,

If Escobar goes, then whoever wins the CF job has to lead off, with KJ batting 2nd. Green would bat 7 or 8.

By justafan

October 29, 2008 10:15 PM | Link to this

Fox Sports is the pits even TBS has them beat. Congrat to both Teams.

By BravesFanChris24

October 29, 2008 10:16 PM | Link to this

As much as I don’t like it, I must give some props. They earned it. Even with the stuff that put a damper on the WS, it was two fresh new teams and they kept it relatively close throughout.

Now, onto the off season festivities.

By NO MORE BOBBY

October 29, 2008 10:18 PM | Link to this

I knew there was something special about this years Phillies the way they kicked our butts all season.

SMOLTZ FOR MANAGER 2010!!!!!

By BravesFanChris24

October 29, 2008 10:22 PM | Link to this

As much as I don’t like it, I must give some props. They earned it. Even with the stuff that put a damper on the WS, it was two fresh new teams and they kept it relatively close throughout.

Now, onto the off season festivities.

Sorry if posted twice.

By The Commish

October 29, 2008 10:23 PM | Link to this

Starting next year all World Series games will be 3 innings long.

Also, home field advantage will no longer be determined by the All-Star Game winner. Instead, a race will be held in the middle of the 5th inning of the All-Star Game. The participants will be the Rally Monkey representing the American League and the Milwaukee Bratwurst representing the National League. Winner gets home field advantage. It’s time to bring excitement back to the mascot races.

By Jake

October 29, 2008 10:24 PM | Link to this

So I guess this makes the Phillies the team to beat again. Now that we got that out the way its time to see what the Braves do this offseason. Tampa should have the better long term outcome afterall the Braves didn’t get it their first time either.

By Stirring The Pot Again

October 29, 2008 10:30 PM | Link to this

So - Utley or Howard for MVP?

By Random

October 29, 2008 10:48 PM | Link to this

Lew: “Random-Your humor is painful at best.”

I’ll take that as a “yes” — GREAT!!!

Bill James on Is Pitching 75% of Baseball? (paraphrased and updated from ‘86):

If P=.75B, why aren’t 7 or 8 of the highest-paid (p.a.) players pitchers? (Only 3 are — Santana, Zambrano & Zito, per Cot’s.)

If P=.75B, you’d expect three-quarters of league MVPs would have been pitchers. (Only 10 — 13.0% — of 77 AL, & 9 — 11.7% — of 77 NL MVPs were pitchers.)

If P=.75B, you’d expect three-quarters of the leagues’ Rookies of the Year would have been pitchers. (Since ‘49, only 31 — 25.8% — of 120 RsOY were pitchers.)

If P=.75B, you’d expect to have 3 pitching coaches for every other (bench/base/hitting/etc) coach.

If P=.75B, you’d expect three-quarters of Hall of Fame players to be pitchers. (Only 72 — 31.4% — of 229 HoF players were pitchers.)

And there’s even more, if anyone’s interested.

By dgd

October 29, 2008 10:51 PM | Link to this

Way to go Phils—well deserved! And, for a different perspective, as a girl, I must say they have the all-hunk team as well: Burrell, Utley, and Hamels……sigh.

By kirknga

October 29, 2008 10:59 PM | Link to this

Mr. J, That sounds like a receipt for disaster. Perhaps KJ leading off again..Ugh! And then CF 2nd?

I think we should’ve learned with Marcus Giles that just sticking someone in the leadoff spot because there isn’t anyone else is a bad idea.

By Wayne

October 29, 2008 11:00 PM | Link to this

Congratulations Philadelphia (it sure pains me to say it)!!

By Wayne

October 29, 2008 11:01 PM | Link to this

Well, if there is a deal in place, we should know by Saturday….

By uga-brave

October 29, 2008 11:02 PM | Link to this

do you think the phillies got thier money’s worth out of michael bourn?

By Wayne

October 29, 2008 11:05 PM | Link to this

If Escobar is dealt, I think you will see one of the CF’ers in the leadoff spot. Just my guess.

By N Nine

October 29, 2008 11:07 PM | Link to this

Hitters: MVP-Chipper Jones, LVP-Jeff Francouer(easily)

Pitchers: MVP-Jair Jurrjens, LVP-Rafael Soriano

Tough one on LVP pitcher cause Elmer Dessens(doesn’t count)- JoJO or even Ring.Boyer was terrible at best. But Soriano takes the cake! Congrats

BTW CONGRATS to the Phillies!!! Glad they got that out of the way maybe we will become more hungry for a championship. Very fitting to have Brad Perfect Lidge finish the season and win it all. McFann i guess Victorino gets the last laugh this year. For those folks that absolutely couldn’t wait for offseason (even for Rays sake) there you go now its time for

Frank Wren to shine. I think DOB’s 8:16 p.m tells it all for me. Lets do it!!!!! Wren’s got get prepared to close out this deal heading into the all important G.M meeting.

We need to get this done. If you feel this is not an important step then you don’t have the win now mentality. We are not years away but only few moves away. Don’t kid yourself.

We all should be excited for this upcomming offseason and it all starts now……..

By richbrave

October 29, 2008 11:07 PM | Link to this

PEAVY at a reasonable price - not at any price.

By Wayne

October 29, 2008 11:10 PM | Link to this

Random I believe pitching is the most significant element of the game. Obviously you can’t win if you don’t score, but go back and look at most of the World Series victories, and they are generally because a teams pitching either excelled, or collapsed on the part of the losing team.

You can make all the statements you would like, but it doesn’t change things.

Just my opinion….

By rico carty

October 29, 2008 11:12 PM | Link to this

Is there any interest from Braves to go after Furcal if Escobar leaves via trade? That would solve the SS and leadoff problem, but at what price?

By Wayne

October 29, 2008 11:14 PM | Link to this

N Nine Gotta disagree with you. Go back and check, but Boyer was very good for the first half of the year. He faded the last half, probably due in part to overuse.

As for Soriano, as it turns out, he had a definite issue with his arm. How truly bad it was, who knows? Personally, I think he might be a “softie”.

By keylargo

October 29, 2008 11:20 PM | Link to this

richbrave PEAVY at a reasonable price - not at any price

best post of the night

By kirknga

October 29, 2008 11:23 PM | Link to this

Right On richbrave! As someone said previously, the Braves are more than a Jake Peavy away from competing.

On a team with multiple holes, questions such as what is the top of the order going to look like and is the answer one that is an improvement or a step back from last season shouldn’t be taken lightly.

Saying the CF will lead off when we don’t even know who that’ll be is a bit worrisome to me.

By Phillies Don't Blow

October 29, 2008 11:23 PM | Link to this

NL East All Time World Series Championship Crowns: (2)Philadelphia Phillies (2)New York Mets (2)Florida Marlins (1)Atlanta Braves (0)Montreal Expos/Washington Nationals

By kirknga

October 29, 2008 11:27 PM | Link to this

Boyer and Acosta were very good until they were overused. They were pitching every day at one point and this was only their first full season.

If the Braves can get 850+ innings from their starters then the pen, with Ohman, will be very good.

By CC Will Break Down

October 29, 2008 11:31 PM | Link to this

Is that number in the WSJ possibly true? 200,000 jobs to be lost in NYC in total!! Apparently a bad time to be breaking in two new stadiums with all those luxury boxes. Stations also reporting on a “possible” effort to have had NEW Yankee Stadium property OVER appraised to enhance bond offers. State Attorney General may get involved. Apparently a bad time to be engaged in fiscal malfaesance.

By N Nine

October 29, 2008 11:31 PM | Link to this

To me-Soriano was a HUGE letdown. Fresh off his new deal, so much was expected from him. He was counted on being the closer. Wasn’t really going on stats Wayne, my friend. Are you saying Boyer was abused wrongfully by Bobby? Looks like our “featured guy” Ohman pitched just as much and loved it! some just can’t hang…

Would love for Ohman to come back..He’s durable and can pitch! Plus DOB seems to always find good stories from him.

By Wayne

October 29, 2008 11:36 PM | Link to this

kirknga As of today, how is it such a stretch to say if Escobar is dealt, then either Schafer, Anderson, or Blanco would be a good guess to be the leadoff hitter.

Not sure if I understand your comment of that being a bit worrisome? Just answering somebody else’s question….

By keylargo

October 29, 2008 11:44 PM | Link to this

REALITY

Braves vs Phillies

C McCann vs Ruiz Braves

1B Kotchman vs. Howard Phillies

2B Johnson vs. Utley Phillies

3B Jones vs. Feliz Braves

SS Escobar vs. Rollins Phillies

LF Diaz vs. Burrell Phillies

CF Anderson vs. Victorino Phillies

RF Francoeur vs. Werth Phillies

SP Advantage Phillies

BP Toss up

By Wayne

October 29, 2008 11:45 PM | Link to this

N Nine I agree that Soriano was a huge letdown. I was basically saying that if I were assigning awards for MVP/LVP, I probably wouldn’t give a LVP award to a legitimately injured player.

If that is the case, then how about Glavine, Smoltz, or Hudson. They were ALL huge letdowns.

As for Boyer/Acosta versus Ohman, well Wil is a vet. As kirk states, it was their first full season, and while they weren’t abused wrongfully by Bobby, due to the circumstances of the team (lack of total innings by our starters) they were definitely overused.

Maybe it’s all just semantics. Not trying to get you to change your mind. Just adding my 2 cents worth.

By kirknga

October 29, 2008 11:49 PM | Link to this

Wayne, Anderson is speedy and had another good September at the big league level but it is still an open question as to whether or not he is an everyday player. We don’t yet know if Schafer can play at a major league level.

So the second part of my question which you overlooked is whether or not the answer represents an improvement or not?

I can’t confidently say that either Anderson or Schafer is as good, or an improvement over what we had. That means we’ve now have another question where there wasn’t one before. The idea is to answer questions not create more of them.

That is why I find it worrisome, not to mention the fact I feel Escobar is part of a core that shouldn’t be traded.

By N Nine

October 29, 2008 11:54 PM | Link to this

Keylargo, Lets do that comparison once spring hits. Reality is that Marlins beat us with a 20 something million payroll. If we upgrade we should be competitive. Plus all numbers on paper don’t mean much thats why they play the game. Hopefully we will face less injuries and less one run losses(better luck).Hopefully Bobby will improve his decision making skills late in games. We shall fight…braves 09

By N Nine

October 29, 2008 11:55 PM | Link to this

good points wayne :)

By kirknga

October 29, 2008 11:56 PM | Link to this

Guys don’t forget that Ohman blew up in September!

By Wayne

October 29, 2008 11:58 PM | Link to this

kirknga I see your point, and agree. All that we say, think, blog, dream and hope for is just an exercise in that it doesn’t matter…

Frank is going to make the deals, whether you or I like them. (come on Frank, let’s keep our kids!)

We can always hope though.

:-)

By uga-brave

October 29, 2008 11:58 PM | Link to this

keylargo,

bullpen a toss up? gotta disagree with that.

the phillies did not loose one game this season when they lead after seven innings.

think about that and consider the homerun haven they play 81 games in.

if the phillies pick up one more really good starter they should be really good again.

the number to me that defies logic is jamie moyer went 16-7 with a 3.70 era.

seems just like yesterday that ryan zimmerman hit a walkoff against the braves to start the season.

By Wayne

October 29, 2008 11:59 PM | Link to this

N Nine Amen!

As Tom Petty says, “The waiting, is the hardest part!”

By My Kingdom For A Platoon

October 30, 2008 12:03 AM | Link to this

Good for the Rays & Phillies but I doubt we can duplicate what they did in one year. In general winning teams don’t rely on platoons is my point.cooper

pretty foolish statement there dude. Tell that to all those Yankee, Oriole and pirates teams that won regularly. In fact it’s somewhat difficult to find teams that don’t platoon at least in one spot. What, are you 12?

By David O'Brien

October 30, 2008 12:07 AM | Link to this

kirknga, he “blew up” because he was worn out. He had the most appearance in the majors at the time he began to struggle, and the problem was that Cox didn’t trust anyone and/or didn’t have enough others healthy this year when he kept running Acosta, Boyer and Ohman out there every day in the first half.

Ohman is the only one who (almost) made it through the season without injury or slump.

By Thrillhouse44

October 30, 2008 12:09 AM | Link to this

My Kingdom For A Platoon …pirates teams that won regularly. What, are you 72?

By Wayne

October 30, 2008 12:09 AM | Link to this

uga you hit the nail on the head about Philly’s pen. Awesome job. That won’t happen again soon.

As somebody else mentioned earlier, I like our chances if we can avoid the injury bug next year. We got some decent talent coming up in the next few year, and I trust FW to make good decisions.

Nite all…

By Daybed Wagmoe

October 30, 2008 12:14 AM | Link to this

keylargo: I was with you all the way on your comparisons between the Braves and Phillies breakdown by position until I saw “BP Toss Up,” at which point my eyes went wide in disbelief. You actually think that the Braves’ bullpen is as good as the Phillies’? Philadelphia’s bullpen is hands-down far better than the Braves, and they’re a HUGE reason why they just won the World Series (let alone win the division).

The Phillies’ BP ranked 1st in the NL in era, the Braves 12th, with the Phillies’ being a run better (3.22 to the Braves’ 4.25). And don’t forget that the Phillies had a far healthier pen — the Braves had 18 different pitchers from the pen this year to the Phillies’ 12.

Otherwise, I’d agree — very accurate assessment of the two teams.

DOB: It’s nice that that Phillies won the World Series, and it’s nice of the AJC.com to put a picture of Brad Lidge and Carlos Ruiz celebrating. Now can you guys PLEASE change that picture sooner rather than later??? I know that during the offseason, those Braves page pictures tend to remain the same for days at a time (it seems like they’re changed weekly). Coming to the Braves (ahem, BRAVES) blog is something I enjoy doing several times daily — looking at that picture for longer than a day or two is going to get very old, very fast.

I guess it could be worse. Lidge could be clogging to the Dropkick Murphys.

By keylargo

October 30, 2008 12:14 AM | Link to this

N Nine that was not my point. My point was that if you add Peavy and Ordonez, we still don’t beat the Phillies on paper.

Do you add Peavy? Like richbrave said, at a reasonable cost. And like I have said before, Jurrjens will win as many games in the next four years as Peavy, only at $50 million less in salary.

Do you add Ordonez? So you can win 3 to 5 more games at a cost of $51 million? Not a reasonable cost.

Our future is down on the farm. I love to win and the Braves have done plenty of it. Now is the rebuilding time and it should be done properly and not be a temporary fix.

The worst thing that could ever happen is to trade our future away for a couple of 85 win seasons and be facing the same thing as we are now in 2011 with no prospects left.

By David O'Brien

October 30, 2008 12:14 AM | Link to this

Those talking about Garrett Anderson — I think it’s most likely he’ll return to Angels at a reduced rate (lower price than the option that was declined). He’s been there his whole career. And he ain’t nearly the player he was.

As for Griffey, while I think he could be a good platoon player with Diaz, I also believe the Braves, in their current situation, have to get an every-day guy who can give them at least 25-30 homers in left. A true big bat still in his prime. Because they just have so much uncertainty in CF and, yes, in RF. Can’t count on Francoeur to put up big numbers. They’ve GOT to get a big bat in left, and I think they will, somehow, some way. At least they better….

That Nelson dude … I know he hit this year in majors, but there’s a reason he passed through waivers. I’ve just got to wonder if that wasn’t too small a sample size this year to be counting on him as a big bat, if you’re the Braves. I don’t get the impression they’d settle for him as the guy they’re looking for, not this year in this particular situation. Like I said, they need a bonafide, proven big bat in left field….

22oz, Boog was there working for ESPN, doing interviews for their postgame show and all that. Not for Fox.

By kirknga

October 30, 2008 12:21 AM | Link to this

LOL…careful wayne, you’re sounding like one of those “prospect -huggers”!

I look forward to how the offseason unfolds. I don’t follow the minor leaguers closely. I rely mostly on the impressions of those who blog here. In doing so one thing I’ve noticed is that people tend to hype prospects and then sour on them quickly once they reach the big leagues.

So while Hanson sounds like a player the Braves should not trade, I can’t shake the notion that he is this offseason’s Charlie Morton.

By uga-brave

October 30, 2008 12:26 AM | Link to this

michael bourn for brad lidge. kinda like melvin nieves for the crimedawg.

not in the phill’s wildest dreams did they think lidge would be this good.

probably the most important deal of the off season last year and one that came with modest fanfare.

you think the phillies are happy that it was bourn who the astros wanted instead of victorino?

By keylargo

October 30, 2008 12:29 AM | Link to this

Daybed I should have put some kind of time frame on that comparison. I was thinking of the spring when I wrote that and was assuming we had Soriano, Gonzo, Moylan, Boyer, Acosta, Ohman back healthy.

You are right though that in no way does the Braves pen compare to the Phillies through the 08 season in any way.

By kirknga

October 30, 2008 12:42 AM | Link to this

DOB I know that…that was the point I was making to someone who implied that Ohman held up all season while being overused but Boyer didn’t.

I was just setting the record straight…not criticizing Ohman. I believe he should be retained, and that if the Braves can get 850+ innings from their starters, Boyer and Acosta will be very good.

By cameron

October 30, 2008 12:43 AM | Link to this

I have a question. If the Marlins are only asking for a major league ready relief pitcher, why dont we try and get him, he could be great off the bench, or he could play some 1st base to give kotchman a day off every once in a while, or cant he play OF too? I mean it might sound crazy to yall, but the guys got some power dont he? For just a major league ready relief pitcher id pick him up for power off the bench.

By StingerSplash

October 30, 2008 12:47 AM | Link to this

Just watched Ryan Adams on Letterman. Solid effort. Of course, it was just one song. Any longer and his head might have exploded. But gotta give the man props for his wardrobe — an Iron Maiden T-shirt. The Maiden rules! Bruce Dickinson is God! Let Eddie the Head loose! I’ll be quiet now.

By N Nine

October 30, 2008 12:48 AM | Link to this

Keylargo,

I should have put some kind of time frame on that comparison. I was thinking of the spring when I wrote that keylargo

Oh ya? so your comparing 08 players and using them as 09 status? Braves won’t appear that way in ‘09.. How do you know Burrell will be there. just not making sense there….

Do you add Peavy? Like richbrave said, at a reasonable cost I would, what is reasonable?? Not having Hanson,Heyward, and freeman should make it somewhat reasonable ..we should push for peavy…I will never change my stance on that. Peavy is a difference maker.

Our future is down on the farm. I love to win and the Braves have done plenty of it. Now is the rebuilding time and it should be done properly and not be a temporary fix

Adding Peavy for four or five years is NOT a temporary fix! We have been rebuilding for sometime, ie Baby Braves. As Braveheart was saying a few days ago, we should strive in making team better, we need to improve while heading into the right direction.

With all that said Keylargo, don’t get me wrong our prospects are important and should be handled right… The part we won’t agree on is that we are a few players away from being competitive which can be achieved without touching the future core players.

By Supes

October 30, 2008 12:54 AM | Link to this

One more thing worst than the Phillies winning a WS title, the Mets winning one. At least we avoided that scenario.

BTW…when Cole Hamels becomes a free agent he’s as good as gone. Angels or Dodgers will be standing waiting with open checkbooks and he is a west coast guy…so enjoy it while it lasts with Hamels as the Phillie’s ace.

Braves need to make a strong push for Jake Peavy, Matt Cain, Derek Lowe, Zack Grienke, and other available options.

Frank Wren’s GM legacy/career will be definied by what he does this off-season to improve the team.

This is 3 straight years Braves have been out of the playoffs. Unacceptable (Yes we can chalk up 08 to the freaky injuries and Jeff laying an egg…on a nightly basis), but what about next year? It’s time for this team, starting with the GM to step up and be a winner again!

By BravesFan79

October 30, 2008 2:01 AM | Link to this

loosing Ohman would hurt our chances at winning next year just as much as loosing Escobar would!
Besides 3 million shouldnt be such a big deal anyways when the Braves will probably throw a mill or so at a few other relievers that are HALF as good….. Sorry but id rather have 1 REALLY GOOD 3 million/ relief pitcher, than 3 average 1 million relief pitchers.

Congrats to the Phillies…. i was rooting for them as i just didnt think tampa bay deserved a WS title. Besides i like the coaching staff at Philly and was going for Charlie Manuel.

By nitram odarp

October 30, 2008 2:10 AM | Link to this

the worst part about the Filthies winning the world series is we now have another year of Rollins running his mouth saying they are the team to beat. although that may be hard to argue right now still hate it when he runs his mouth

By BA

October 30, 2008 2:17 AM | Link to this

Couldn’t have said it better- put this Series out of it’s misery. A team I despise (those damn Phillies- except for Rollins- that kid is just too smooth to hate on) and a team I can barely identify (who the h- Balfour? Howell? who was that Rays rightfielder- Mutroz or Deltriz or something). A fitting (and boring) end to what turned out to be (after Skip and all) the WORST baseball season of my life. No offense, DOB- didn’t hurt the quality of the MIB/Braves/Crusading Everyman/McFann/Birds/Turtles/BBQ/vorq blog. Always a nice read, every freaking time. Your Caray piece (when it happened) was second only to Pete’s pre-game send-off for Skip. Van Wieren’s voice never wavered…what a hardazz. Two great broadcasters, they will be sorely missed.

So DOB, they announcing Peavy tomorrow or what? C’mon, DOB, we know you’re holding out on us!

By nolie

October 30, 2008 2:29 AM | Link to this

with Soriano and Gonzo on the payroll, I will be kinda surprised if Wren springs for Ohman.

By scottbravesfan

October 30, 2008 2:48 AM | Link to this

I get the feeling that the Padres will not trade Peavy to the Braves. Probably won’t trade him at all. Sounds like they are wanting a ton back for him. Which is great for Peavy as he’ll get to waste his prime years in San Diego while they rebuild.

By My Kingdom For A Platoon

October 30, 2008 2:59 AM | Link to this

My Kingdom For A Platoon …pirates teams that won regularly. What, are you 72?Thrillhouse 44

I don’t think you have to be 72 to remember the entire decade of the 70s, just not being senile yet ought to do it.

By Random

October 30, 2008 6:12 AM | Link to this

Wayne: “I believe pitching is the most significant element of the game… . You can make all the statements you would like, but it doesn’t change things.”

It wasn’t me “makin’ statements”, but Bill F.* James — don’t be puttin HIS words in MY mouth at the same time I’m tryin’ to put them in YOUR ears.

• “F.” = “Effin’”

8-)

PS: Stirring The Pot Again: “So - Utley or Howard for MVP?”

Sorry, we’ve taken that discussion to other venues.

You may join us there, if you’d like. As may anyone else who cares or is interested.

By My Entire Team Sucks

October 30, 2008 6:59 AM | Link to this

Does anyone know if the Rising Stars Showcase is going to be on mlb tv ??

By fansince66

October 30, 2008 7:18 AM | Link to this

Opening day lineup - 09

Anderson - CF KJ - LF Chipper - 3B McCann - C Kotchman - 1B Frenchie - RF Greene - SS Prado/Infante - 2B Peavey - P

I’ll take it

By BravesFan79

October 30, 2008 7:24 AM | Link to this

Keylargo: You Seriously think Rollins is better than Escobar?? Escobar is better on offense AND defense!!

And YES…. with a bullpen of Gonzo, Ohman, Moylan, and Smoltz coming back we WOULD have one of the best bullpens in the NL!! Now if we could only find a way to dump Soriano on another team and keep Ohman……

By JimD

October 30, 2008 8:09 AM | Link to this

MLB could shorten the season without reducing the number of games with one simple return to the “old days” … double headers. One twin bill a month would shorten the season by a week without reducing the number of games.

Sure, there would be other double headers caused by rainouts and such, but these guys are highly paid and trained athletes. It is not asking to much for them to play 2 GAMES on a single day.

Of course this will not happen. The owners will not go for it because it eats into the $$$$, and the players will not go for it because they can’t stay out as late the night before and sleep as late on the day of the DH.

But it could give some relief.

By Kevin

October 30, 2008 8:11 AM | Link to this

The Phillies won for there players played the manager was there not beatin his wife(U know who i mean).Yes if bobby cox was phillies manager they would had lost last night n 2 in tampa givin the Rays there first championship…See the way went 1991 we won west beat Pirates get in WS n like Tampa twinkles should been defected but cox was here n u know choke is his name…

By kevin

October 30, 2008 8:16 AM | Link to this

No bud n friends should had started all games at 4pm starts…get more viewers n be better games not this 8:30pm starts..it stupid baseball n folks need change startin times….all games at 3pm if east teams to central time zone say if a west coast time is in start at 6pm here n be 3pm start there u get me…I say also if a game is rain out n tied after 6innings its a tie and start over…so what if say if phillies won 4-1-1 u would still be played at same spot where rain out was….

By 22oz

October 30, 2008 8:25 AM | Link to this

DOB, i know he was working for ESPN, i was just curious how he could work for Foxsports during the regular season, then switch over to ESPN in the postseason. I figured these guys get paid year-round, not just during the regular season. So it confused me that he could work for rival networks.

By JimD

October 30, 2008 8:38 AM | Link to this

Kevin

Go back to bed. It’s too early for you, you aren’t making sense.

By BamaBrave

October 30, 2008 8:58 AM | Link to this

Is it April yet?

By Hotstove

October 30, 2008 9:11 AM | Link to this

What’s the word on how the Braves fill out the radio booth?

By Billy

October 30, 2008 9:20 AM | Link to this

“Prospect Huggers” is not a new philosophy to some organizations. With the ever rising free agent price tag, the large bonuses paid out to draft picks, and skyrocketing salaries expect more and more clubs to become “Prospect Huggers”.

The term “Prospect Hugger” is actually a term of endearment in today’s baseball world….a compliment to the FO for not being reckless with current inventory and mortgaging the future by sending off elite players to other organizations.

For those that scoff at the “Prospect Huggers” a trip back to 2002, when the Expos sent Sizemore, Brandon Phillips, Cliff Lee and Lee Stevens to Cleveland in exchange for Bartolo Colon and Tim Drew. That trade should adjust some thinking as Colon spent one year with Montreal and had an unbelievable year, but he was shipped to the White Sox immediately after the season.

Every Star player was once a prospect, some highly regarded and some not so highly regarded. Same goes for the busts. Organizations have learned it is important to reload from within.

I am a proud “Prospect Hugger” On the flip side, I still love the McGriff trade.

By Lew

October 30, 2008 9:22 AM | Link to this

Fansince66-You might be right. If the Braves pick up Khalil Green and his $6.5 million salary along with Peavy, there is no way they can afford a RH power hitter for LF and still get all the pitching they need.

If Yunel is traded and we want to pick up a good outfielder (much less Ordonez as many clamor for), no way do we spend that much at short. There will be other avenues explored. Of that I am certain.

Kelly in left doesn’t bother me, but I for one, do not care to listen to the resulting firestorm on the blog if that eventuality comes to pass. It’s time to realize that $40 million just doesn’t buy what it used to.

By Efrim

October 30, 2008 9:23 AM | Link to this

Supes

BTW…when Cole Hamels becomes a free agent he’s as good as gone. Angels or Dodgers will be standing waiting with open checkbooks and he is a west coast guy…so enjoy it while it lasts with Hamels as the Phillie’s ace.

I agree. I have heard the same whispers. He has no desire to pitch anywhere else other than the West Coast.

Good…..because the kid is a flat out ace.

By Lew

October 30, 2008 9:38 AM | Link to this

Billy-Got to agree with you. I’ve been accused of being a Prospect Hugger myself. Like you I don’t mind a good trade (let’s exclude the Teixeira trade here), but you can’t dump all of your good prospects.

For the entire three plus years I’ve been on this blog, all I’ve heard is how the Braves NEVER develop good pitching and how we need strikeout pitchers, not soft tossers. I’ve heard this line to the point of illness. Now we have what appears to be a stud prospect with Tommy Hanson-a pitcher who strikes out way more than one per inning and apparently has lights out stuff and the first reaction is to trade him for someone else because we don’t know how he will do in the future.

Makes no sense whatsoever to me. But I’m only Joe the Artist. What do I know (that’s rhetorical)?

By McFann O –[brr!]

October 30, 2008 9:48 AM | Link to this

N Nine McFann i guess Victorino gets the last laugh this year.

Yeah, well, maybe he did. Congrats to the Fillies…to the doggone Fillies.

I bet Hamels starts Opening Day…Then every time he gets out of an inning we here, “And the World Series MVP gets out of a jam to hold the Braves down.”

Doggone it.

OK, so it was their turn this year. We cann move on…It’ll be our turn again soon enough.

By Anti-Shanks

October 30, 2008 9:55 AM | Link to this

The term “Prospect Hugger” is actually a term of endearment in today’s baseball world

nope it’s not.it’s a term of derision for those pie-in-the-sky foolish optimists who believe that all their teams prospects are going to develop into much better players much more often than any other team’s prospects. Fools in other words.

By Wayne the Salesman

October 30, 2008 9:56 AM | Link to this

Lew It’s time to realize that $40 million just doesn’t buy what it used to.

I love it!

Random Yes, I saw that it was Bill F. James’s statement. Doesn’t matter who said it, to me it is still not valid.

By McFann O –[brr!]

October 30, 2008 9:57 AM | Link to this

Uga-Brave you think the phillies are happy that it was bourn who the astros wanted instead of victorino?

Dangit, Astros! Thanks a lump! Dum kopfs…

BA didn’t hurt the quality of the MIB/Braves/Crusading Everyman/McFann/Birds/Turtles/BBQ/vorq blog.

I agree. While the year stunk, the Blogs were very good. My favorites were the ones from the All-Star Break. Loved the insight!

One thing I love about the Blog is getting the quotes from players that you can’t find anywhere else (sorry if that sounds corny).

Season was really bad, but at least we still had each other!

; )

By Dan

October 30, 2008 9:57 AM | Link to this

Dave

You said there is a reasonable chance the braves acquire Peavy w/out giving up hanson or heyward. Obviously, this means that we lose KJ or Yunnel.

Tyler Flowers is hitting well in Arizona, hopefully this will boost his stock as a prospect. I see him as a primo trade chip. I also think the Braves can afford to part with Gorkys if they believe Jordan Schafer can play centerfield.

By McFann O –[brr!]

October 30, 2008 9:59 AM | Link to this

Wait—when does Cole Hamels become a free agent??

Oh boy! The West Cost cann have him! Then we don’t hafta see him as much!

By DAP

October 30, 2008 10:00 AM | Link to this

does anyone have opinions on the world series being played in a neutral site, like the super bowl? mike and mike were talking about it this morning.

i think its a bad idea, but i wanted to comment on one thing they used as an argument. they said that baseball was not meant to be played in those conditions…now im not sure what they meant by that. if they meant the rain, then yeah, they are right. but it rains all year around, everywhere.

were they talking about cold? baseball can be played in cold weather. its a little harder, but 40 degrees is not to cold to play a baseball game.

i hate the idea of a neutral site for the world series. cold weather is not a reason not to play. precipitation is, but you cant really avoid that except with domes or retractable roofs.

By Brian Jordan's contract

October 30, 2008 10:00 AM | Link to this

this team will never sign a big money free agent, they will just continue to trade every minor league player to fill needs because they can’t stomach paying the big bucks.

By McFann O –[brr!]

October 30, 2008 10:03 AM | Link to this

Holy—Well, the Braves page on the AJC has a new photo, and it ain’t the Braves.

Hope it’s not there for long…

OK. Yeah, I freely admit it: I am a sore loser!!

By G'dbye Jake

October 30, 2008 10:04 AM | Link to this

Marlins trading Jacobs to KC

MIAMI — With the World Series now completed, the hot stove season is set to get under way.

Already, there is some activity.

According to a league source, the Marlins are close to trading first baseman Mike Jacobs to the Royals for right-handed reliever Leo Nunez.

The source said on Wednesday night that players have been agreed upon, and the deal could be consummated in the next few days.

Jacobs, who turns 28 on Thursday, had career highs of 32 home runs and 93 RBIs for Florida this season. The left-handed-hitting first baseman, who batted .247 in 141 games, spent three years with the Marlins. He is eligible for arbitration for the first time this season, and his salary is expected to rise to roughly $3.5 million in 2009.

The Royals and Marlins have been in ongoing discussions for a while.

The Marlins are looking for bullpen help, and Nunez is a 25-year-old from the Dominican Republic who appeared in 45 games during the ‘08 season. Nunez posted a 4-1 record with a 2.98 ERA while logging 48 1/3 innings.

Nunez has a chance to compete for a late-inning setup role, and perhaps down the line he could be a closer candidate.

By A's & B's

October 30, 2008 10:08 AM | Link to this

Type A/B Free Agents By Tim Dierkes [October 29, 2008 at 1:54pm CST]

Using Eddie Bajek’s estimates on Detroit Tigers Thoughts, here’s a list of the possible Type A and Type B free agents this winter.

Type A

Bobby Abreu (Yankees) Milton Bradley (Rangers) Doug Brocail (Astros) A.J. Burnett (Blue Jays) Pat Burrell (Phillies) Orlando Cabrera (White Sox) Juan Cruz (Diamondbacks) Ryan Dempster (Cubs) Adam Dunn (Diamondbacks) Brian Fuentes (Rockies) Brian Giles (Padres) Orlando Hudson (Diamondbacks) Raul Ibanez (Mariners) Jason Isringhausen (Cardinals) Derek Lowe (Dodgers) Damaso Marte (Yankees) Jamie Moyer (Phillies) Mike Mussina (Yankees) Darren Oliver (Angels) Oliver Perez (Mets) Andy Pettitte (Yankees) Manny Ramirez (Dodgers) Edgar Renteria (Tigers) Francisco Rodriguez (Angels) Ivan Rodriguez (Yankees) C.C. Sabathia (Brewers) Ben Sheets (Brewers) Russ Springer (Cardinals) Mark Teixeira (Angels) Jason Varitek (Red Sox) Kerry Wood (Cubs)

That’s 31 Type As, though Giles and Marte may have their options picked up and Mussina may retire.

Type B

Jeremy Affeldt (Reds) Moises Alou (Mets) Garret Anderson (Angels) Joe Beimel (Dodgers) Casey Blake (Dodgers) Paul Byrd (Red Sox) Mike Cameron (Brewers) Carlos Delgado (Mets) Alan Embree (Athletics) Eric Gagne (Brewers) Jon Garland (Angels) Luis Gonzalez (Marlins) Ken Griffey Jr. (White Sox) Mark Grudzielanek (Royals) Trevor Hoffman (Padres) Bob Howry (Cubs) Jeff Kent (Dodgers) Braden Looper (Cardinals) Mark Loretta (Astros) Brandon Lyon (Diamondbacks) Greg Maddux (Dodgers) Trever Miller (Rays) Miguel Olivo (Royals) Brad Penny (Dodgers) Dennys Reyes (Twins) Brian Shouse (Brewers) John Smoltz (Braves) Frank Thomas (Athletics) Salomon Torres (Brewers) Juan Uribe (White Sox) Tim Wakefield (Red Sox) David Weathers (Reds) Randy Wolf (Astros) Jamey Wright (Rangers) Gregg Zaun (Blue Jays)

That’s 35 Type Bs, though Cameron, Delgado, Embree, Miller, Olivo, Penny, Torres, and Wakefield could have their options picked up and Alou, Griffey, Kent, and Maddux could retire.

Talking to a few people in the game, it seems that the Type A/B free agent quota depends on the number of Type A/Bs who file. If 62 or fewer such players file (which is possible) then each team will have a quota of three Type A or B signings. Regardless of that, teams are allowed to sign as many Type A/Bs as they lose. As far as I can tell, the quota has never been an issue in the past.

By keylargo

October 30, 2008 10:12 AM | Link to this

Lew It’s time to realize that $40 million just doesn’t buy what it used to.

And that makes what the Marlins did almost unbelievable. I still can’t comprehend that they got a team together for $23 mm that stayed in the NL East race for the entire year. And not to mention kicked the Mets out of the race to end their year.

By the way the Marlins have almost made a deal with the Royals for Mike Jacobs (32 HR). They are getting Leo Nunez from the Royals in return.

By DAP

October 30, 2008 10:18 AM | Link to this

that jacobs-nunez trade looks like a pretty good one.

by the way, a big WOW for brad lidge. gotta be comeback player of the NL. a perfect year, nicely finished up with a save in the clinching game 5 of the world series. good for him.

can you believe the phils got him for bourne? unbelieveable. turns out to be maybe the most undderated trade of the offseason.

By Daybed Wagmoe

October 30, 2008 10:20 AM | Link to this

cameron — responding to your 12:43am post. You want to trade for Mike Jacobs…to play him off the bench? This is a guy who just hit 32 home runs this year, and you’d want him as a backup?

I’ll be glad that he’ll be leaving the NL East. I also just learned that the Royals have a 1B prospect named Kila Kaaihue — he’s gotta be the brother of the Braves’ 1B prospect Kala Kaaihue, right? I mean, no way they’re not related…right?

By kirknga

October 30, 2008 10:24 AM | Link to this

If Hanson is such a can’t miss-must keep player then it should be very clear that he will be part of the rotation next season. No more minor leagues I would think. No more “seasoning” needed.

If he doesn’t project to the rotation this season(one in which the Braves are actually seeking starting pitching) then he’s tradeable.

There will be times when teams trade pROSPECTS they will later come to regret trading, that’s part of baseball. If the Braves are serious about contending next year then they cannot be timid or haunted by the Ghost of All Previous Bad Trades.

By Eware

October 30, 2008 10:27 AM | Link to this

You know, I’m sick of hearing about how the Braves “can’t stomach” paying the big bills. I respect the fact that they won’t pay the big bills and would rather build the club from within and through trades.

I’m reading Scherholtz’s book right now (fabulous read by the way) and he has mentioned numerous times that the Braves operate in the red. Not as much since the payroll was dropped to $80M. But, now that its been raised again, I’m sure we’re back in the double-digit $MM loses.

Anyways, my point is that we must remember that is is a business. With no money, no team. So, I like that the Braves operate the best they can. With a $100M payroll, Liberty Media is still being very generous. Hopefully, other teams will begin to operate this way, and we can get free agency salaries back under control.

Believe me, I think it sucks that the Steinbrenners of the world have created an environment where baseball operations have to lose money to field good teams. As a fan, I would love to have an owner that throws money into the team. But, I’m a realist. Not a lot of people in this world have that kind of money.

Carry on, Frank Wren.

By Efrim

October 30, 2008 10:31 AM | Link to this

kirknga

Your 10:24 AM is a terrible way of looking at things. I hope our management doesn’t think that way. I am pretty sure they don’t.

By McFann O –[brr!]

October 30, 2008 10:34 AM | Link to this

Jason V is a free agent? Wonder how much he wants…I’ve always liked him. Don’t know completely why…He seems like a good dude, though.

Anyway, if only the term “Free Agent” meant just that—Free Agent…then we’d have no financial problems, right?

; )

By Cecil34

October 30, 2008 10:40 AM | Link to this

I have to laugh when I read all the ruminations about this world series being the least viewed, least interesting, etc.

Number one, Selig is “and” idiot. It is a shame baseball has had to settle for an individial who has no concept of leadership these many years.

But enough about him. He won’t live forever.

TV is the tail wagging the dog. Pro sports is in the “entertainment” business, not the sports business.

When they decided to expand the playoffs, they should have knocked 10 or 12 games off the regular season, so that the world series would be over with by the 15th of October, thus hopefully avoiding bad/cold weather in the northern cities.

Night games ain’t working. Either start times are too late, or finishing too late.

I love the Braves and baseball, but truthfully, if the Braves are not involved, I move on to college football and maybe pro. And Nascar. I could care less who wins the world series if the Braves aren’t in it.

When I was a kid, I could not wait to get home from school to watch the playoffs and world series. They played in the daytime, and it seemed so much more special when they did that. Remember we only had three channels in Atlanta to choose from anyway. Who wouldn’t watch?

But this was before MLB sold their soul to the TV devil.

I better stop now.

By Anti-Shanks

October 30, 2008 10:45 AM | Link to this

Your 10:24 AM is a terrible way of looking at things. I hope our management doesn’t think that way. I am pretty sure they don’tEfrim

Give all them prospects a big hug, guy. They all gonna be stars.no doubt

By kirknga

October 30, 2008 10:45 AM | Link to this

Ok Efrim why is what I said so “terrible”?

By Shaun

October 30, 2008 10:48 AM | Link to this

DAP, yes, and people mocked me when I said Lidge would be just fine in Philadelphia.

Give the Phillies front office a lot of credit for that move.

Lidge still had an impressive K rate, and impressive walk rate and an impressive homer rate his last couple of years with the Astros. But so many got sucked into emphasizing his ERA, saves and blown saves that they overlooked the fact that the guy could still pitch. That and the fact that he gave up some crucial homers, everyone looked at his failures but ignored his abilities and his overall performance.

By DAP

October 30, 2008 10:55 AM | Link to this

so, no thoughts from the blog about the world series at a neutral site? none at all? i thought someone would opine on that one. oh well.

By richbrave

October 30, 2008 10:57 AM | Link to this

SILLY PUTTY. INTRODUCING THE 2009 BRAVES:

PEAVY = $$$$, KJ, BLANCO, FLOWERS, ROHRBAUGH, MEDLIN.

BURNETT = $$$$ and ????. Don’t know his contract status other than FA.

HAMPTON = $$$$.

RENTERIA = $$$$. Let PRADO and RENTERIA compete for the #2 batting position and PT. Play at 3rd(PRADO) when necessary. Play at 2B(PRADO or RENTERIA) otherwise.

RENTAL for CF = $$$$ and ????. A two year contract, that’s all.

BARRETT or ESTRADA = $$$$.

DIAZ and ANDERSON compete for LF. Keep one after ST.

LINEUP:

ESCOBAR PRADO or RENTERIA JONES McCANN or CF CF or McCANN KOTCHMAN DIAZ or ANDERSON FRANCOUER PITCHER

BENCH:

PRADO or RENTERIA, BARRETT or ESTRADA, INFANTE, SCHAFER.

STARTERS:

PEAVY, BURNETT, JUIRJENS, HAMPTON, MORTON.

LONG-MIDDLE RELIEF:

BENNETT, CAMPILLO.

SET-UP:

OHMAN = $$$$ and a 2 pick. REYES, BOYER.

CLOSER:

GONZALEZ. SORIANO. SMOLTZ.

Pick, pick, pick, pick. Time to go vote - early.

By Shaun

October 30, 2008 10:57 AM | Link to this

kirknga, I don’t know about that. I mean Heyward doesn’t project as a major leaguer as soon as next season and the Braves need a corner outfielder. Does that mean he should be tradeable?

By Billy

October 30, 2008 11:05 AM | Link to this

By Anti-Shanks

nope it’s not.it’s a term of derision for those pie-in-the-sky foolish optimists who believe that all their teams prospects are going to develop into much better players much more often than any other team’s prospects. Fools in other words.

Actually you may speak for the 4 or 5 of your group that believes that way. You are entitled to think that way, even if it is juvenile. It is also juvenile to think anything more than a handful of fans believe “all” their prospects are going to develop into stars.

Reasonable adults understand not all prospects will make it, but you root for them and are encouraged until they don’t succeed. Your negativity is misplaced. It sounds like you anger is directed towards an individual and not a belief?

What I think you will find is it is probably very young people who believe what you are saying and if you spoke to the majority of fans over 25 you would find a different mindset. That is not to say that fans under 25 are not capable or reasonable thinking.

Anti-Shanks there is never a reason to not have hope or not be encouraged to be a fan of your favorite teams minor league players. There are a couple of fans that think as you do, but there are millions of fans that are “Prospect Huggers”.

By Braveheart

October 30, 2008 11:06 AM | Link to this

If Hanson is such a can’t miss-must keep player then it should be very clear that he will be part of the rotation next season. No more minor leagues I would think. No more “seasoning” needed. If he doesn’t project to the rotation this season(one in which the Braves are actually seeking starting pitching) then he’s tradeable.

Why would he have to be in the rotation next season? I don’t get the logic on that one.

By Shaun

October 30, 2008 11:06 AM | Link to this

Anti-Shanks, the question is who is likely to provide more for the dollar over the length of Peavy’s contract—Peavy or all those young players the Braves would give up for Peavy?

There is not an obvious, cut-and-dry answer to that question. But since the Braves aren’t likely to contend next soon by trading for Peavy alone, and it will be very difficult to trade for Peavy and also drastically improve themselves in other areas, they should be careful giving up a lot of young talent.

In a few years there is a good chance (but not a sure thing) the Braves will be better off with all the young players and the money they did not spend to pay Peavy than they would with Peavy, his contract and none of those young players.

…I think that’s what Efrim is saying.

By Billy

October 30, 2008 11:10 AM | Link to this

Anti Shanks, so tell us, how long has it been since Bill Shanks banned you from his site? How many times have you been banned? Most, if not all negative comments about Bill Shanks come from posters that have been banished when he decided to clean out the undesirable posters and make them post on boards other than his. I see your time could be short here too.

By nolie

October 30, 2008 11:12 AM | Link to this

I see that Tazawa was not drafted by a Japanese club, so he should be free to sign with an American club if I understand it right

By David O'Brien

October 30, 2008 11:13 AM | Link to this

Today’s shocking headline: John Daily found drunk outside Hooters

I find that hard to believe.

By Lew

October 30, 2008 11:15 AM | Link to this

Kirkinga-So if he isn’t ready until early 2010 we should get rid of him? For the sake of a year or less, he’s more valuable as a trade piece? Dude, that is the most shortsighted point of view I’ve heard in months and is absurd on the face of it. Either he is a #1 or 2 pitcher in the making or he isn’t. Either we will need a pitcher of his talent or we won’t. A year won’t change that one way or another. The fact that others (notably the Padres) want him, should provide more of a validation.

Besides, he IS projected for the rotation at some time in 09, if not out of Spring Training. If the rotation will be improved with Peavy in it, it will be improved even more (in particularly more long term) with Peavy AND Hanson in it.

Key Largo-And yet the Marlins have NOT won, have they? I’m sorry, but the fact that the Marlins won a couple years ago with all kids is the exception-not the rule. I don’t recall it happening anywhere else -and don’t quote the Rays to me either-they should have won several years ago with all the talent they have stockpiled. Dumping all your veteran players and relying on the Youth Movement to catch lightning in a bottle is a p!$$ poor method of General Managing. It has not shown results very often and is a philosophy fit only for those teams who will never spend the money required-for whatever reason. Yes, you can find examples of teams with miniscule payrolls showing winning ways, but it is not a common occurrence.

By kirknga

October 30, 2008 11:19 AM | Link to this

Shaun

Look, I’m just questioning the conventional wisdom is all. Part of the CW is that Hanson is a can’t miss guy. Well ok, I’ll accept that but I question if he should be untouchable if he can’t make the rotation at a time where there are multiple openings.

Remember we’re suppose to be contending next season, not rebuilding for 2011 or so.

I also question bringing up some other team’s past bad trade as if that should enter into the thinking of our GM now.

I question why former prospect turn SS for the next decade or so is tradeable(despite a lack of depth at that position), but a prospect we don’t know for certain can crack the rotation isn’t.

Some are ok with trading Morton, who was last offseason’s “tall ,can’t miss,strikeout pitcher… wow’d em at the Arizona League games…” guy, but Hason isn’t.

I just don’t get being protective of players while they are prospects, but not after they make the transition to the major leagues and demonstrate they can play at a high level?

It’s prospect-love and player-hating.

By WordWizardHobo

October 30, 2008 11:21 AM | Link to this

Poor John Daly. If anyone wants a good drink recipe, get the Firefly Vodka (sweet tea flavored) and mix it with a mikes hard lemonade (do a half n half mix).

We call them John Dalys….the alcoholic Arnold Palmer.

By Brian

October 30, 2008 11:23 AM | Link to this

richbrave- I guess Burnett is high on your list but reading a little yesterday, Burnett didn’t even mention the Braves as a choice of teams he’d prefer. The Cardinals were #1 with the Orioles,Yankees, and Red Sox as some of the others. I know if the Braves offered him massive $s he’d consider them, but I wouldn’t hold my breath! This might not mean a whole lot but you almost have to think that way when it comes to players and agents.

As far as some of the “don’t give the farm for Peavy” folks, I agree to a point. But somebody(Escobar) would almost have to be in the deal. And while it makes some of you old timers feel like you’ll have nothing to complain about because Peavy could actually make us better- TOUGH S**!!! I could be wrong but that’s the impression some of you give off.

By kirknga

October 30, 2008 11:28 AM | Link to this

Because Braveheart he’s progressed through the minor leagues and the Braves need pitching and because the Braves have some depth at that position in their system.

If the idea is to start contending now, I believe the guys who have shown they can play well at this level(Escobar, Morton, Francouer, McCann, JJ) are a priority over the guys that have not broken through yet.

I don’t want to sell the farm, but what good is protecting the prospect but then trading him away once he shows he can play?

By David O'Brien

October 30, 2008 11:29 AM | Link to this

220z: Boog works for ESPN year-round, those he’s cutting back on some of his assignments this year because of the non-stop workload. Before this year you were likely to hear him any given night doing a basketball game on ESPN, ESPN2, ESPNU, etc, from any part of the country. He’s been an ESPN employee for years. Few of those folks work for just one network these days….

does anyone have opinions on the world series being played in a neutral site, like the super bowl?DAP

Yeah, I think it’s a ridiculous idea. The Super Bowl crowd is the lamest, least fired up crowd you’ll find at a football game all season, about 80 percent CEO, sales people and other corporate folks who work for companies that can afford the tix, with the rest of the mix a group of fans from the Super Bowl city and fans from the cities of the participating teams. It has no resemblance whatsoever to a regular NFL crowd, which is why you can sense that just watching on TV, the volume of the crowd noise, etc.

OK, so imagine that type of crowd for an entire best-of-seven World Series? Or do you believe that thousands upon thousands of “real” fans from the participating teams’ cities are going to just take off a week or more from work, rent hotel rooms for a week or more (and get gouged mercilessly) at hotels that know those fans have no choice but to pay at the last minute. Those folks just gonna take two weeks’ vacation during the World Series and hope their team makes it, then buy the airline tix with less than a week’s notice at huge prices, the way we media members have to do?

No, no, no. Part of baseball is the crowd. It’s the nature of the game. A disinterested, fat-cat Super Bowl-type crowd would be horrible at a best-of-seven series. Imagine their boredom and all the emtpy seats when one team jumped out to a big early lead in a game? Just so many reasons why it won’t work. Absolutely not. No way. Won’t even be seriously considered. Logistical nightmare, and a nightmare in every other way, too….

Daybed: yes, those two are brothers.

By Anti-Shanks

October 30, 2008 11:34 AM | Link to this

Anti-Shanks there is never a reason to not have hope or not be encouraged to be a fan of your favorite teams minor league players. There are a couple of fans that think as you do, but there are millions of fans that are “Prospect Huggers”Billy

There are also 360 pitchers in the ML plus at least twice that many who came up at the same time but failed to stay or make it at all. There are maybe 10-15 pitchers at the level of Peavy. Those are long odds and anybody who doesn’t realize what a small percent of prospects ever become meaningful players is just plain foolish, and there are way more people who realize that than you are claiming. It is not about not hoping your prospects succeed, it is about not being foolish enough to assume that they will at a higher rate than normal. I also completely disagree with your age premise. Most young fans and posters are in love with their prospects and they frequently do believe that their group is the bestest ever, it takes some experience to understand just how tough it is to succeed for these guys. And there is no anger here at all about it, it’s just a fact of baseball life. Each prospect needs to be analyzed with strict impartiality to have even a moderate chance to determine who might succeed. The term prospect-hugger is meant for those who allow themselves to be affected by their hopes rather than their logic.

By Dadgum

October 30, 2008 11:37 AM | Link to this

KirknGA is pretty much correct. If the Braves keep Hanson, and they indicate they will, then he will be in the Braves’ starting rotation next year. I really see the Braves trading for Peavy and signing a big name free agent pitcher and putting Hanson behind Jurrjens in the rotation say 4th. Of course I originally didn’t see the Braves securing Peavy without losing either Jurrjens or Hanson. Regardless of what Wren has stated to date I am going to leave about a 5% chance that some winds of change or trade scenario will arrive that include one of them in a trade. Hot stove time brings about crazy things. Again, wouldn’t want to see either go, not at all.

Tampa made too many bad decisions last night in a close game. I would never have brought the infield in unless it was the winning or tieing run on third in the last inning less than two outs. You are giving up a hit more often than you are getting the out at home. They score and you have no out. That insane automatic out from Werth fell just behind 2nd base on the drawn-in infield.

As I stated toward the end of the last blog, I feel it is unfair to play 3 games in a row in any one city. Basically the team that should have the home field advantage really doesn’t have that advantage unless they get to game 7 where conversely the team without that advantage gets 3 of the first 5 games on their field. Assuming a likely split in the first two games they can win it without ever having to go back to the field of the team that should have the advantage. Not complaining since it played out that way this year. Not even a Tampa fan or close to it. They should go back to the 2-2-1-1-1 configuration for the good of the game.

Rock on….It is amazing how many times Tim McCarver is right with his analysis prior to the outcome of the play. The dude knows his baseball for sure. Now Buck is a good talking head but not very insightful.

By DAP

October 30, 2008 11:38 AM | Link to this

DOB i totally agree. a neutral site would be totaly disinfrachising to the fans.

ive heard proponants of the idea talk about how it works for the NFL, but for some reason nobody pipes up and says what a different type of game that baseball is, or the fact that baseball is a SERIES and not ONE GAME.

very dumb idea, on many levels.

MLB could make give the WS alot of hoopla, like the superbowl gets, but not in a neutral site.

By kirknga

October 30, 2008 11:42 AM | Link to this

Lew

No it’s not shortsighted, it’s not even my argument. Remember we have depth of pitching prospects in our system so we should be ok in seasons to come.

If we did not have this depth and he was our one and only prized pitching prospect in the system, then my thinking would be different.

And isn’t trading away the guy who you can pencil in at SS for the next decade when there isn’t depth at that position in the system, and when there is no guarantee that the guy you are getting in return(who costs much much more) will remain a Brave, well isn’t that shortsighted?

Remember the idea is to start contending next season, that means in the short term.

By BravesFanInRockies

October 30, 2008 11:46 AM | Link to this

22oz,

I don’t think many sports networks have exclusive deals anymore. Boog did some baseball games for ESPN Radio if I’m not mistaken during the regular season and announced some playoff games, too.

He’ll announce college hoops for ESPN this fall. Regional sports networks in particular allow announcers to move back and forth.

I know CBS refuses to let Dick Vitale do NCAA postseason games, even though other announcers who work for ESPN during the regular season handle March Madness. But Billy Packer announced ACC regular season games on the regional network and worked for CBS.

And Cris Collinsworth must work for every network that has NFL football, or so it seems.

By anti-shanks

October 30, 2008 11:48 AM | Link to this

Anti Shanks, so tell us, how long has it been since Bill Shanks banned you from his site? How many times have you been banned? Billy

Oh Billy, what a load of crap that is. I have never been banned from his site. What has that got to do with the fact that emotionalism is anathema to logical analysis?

I’ve never felt the need to go to his site because he used to spend so many hours on other sites I participated in spreading his own brand of sunshine, claiming that prospect after prospect over the years was going to be a sure fire hero.

He was wrong about 90% of the time at least. It was in fact ludicrous he was so often wrong. Every season he would detail just how great the top 20 prospects were and how so many of them would become meaningful players. Really kind of pathetic to see the players he often touted and understanding correctly in advance just how wrong he would again be.

I have nothing personal against the man, in fact he seems like a nice guy who really loves the Braves, but if I want a cheerleader I’d like some pom-poms and short skirts along with it, too. And no way would I want them evaluating talent. You neither my friend if the best logic you can use is to assume I’ve been throw off his site.

By Efrim

October 30, 2008 11:49 AM | Link to this

Shaun

In a few years there is a good chance (but not a sure thing) the Braves will be better off with all the young players and the money they did not spend to pay Peavy than they would with Peavy, his contract and none of those young players.

Yes, that is what I am saying. Thank you.

kirknga

Patience dude. Patience. You know, there is a way the Braves can contend without gutting the farm system in a trade for Jake Peavy. Not getting him isn’t the end of all things. I think a lot of people have a tough time realizing that.

By Dadgum

October 30, 2008 11:53 AM | Link to this

Sometimes talking heads in sports run out of legitimate items to discuss and venture where they shouldn’t go. Neutral sites for a world series? Are they serious? Please, that will never happen, ever. Far too many reasons why it wouldn’t work to name here. If I had to name one it would be too many neutral fans at a neutral site and the fact the city would reap 1-2 weeks worth of revenue they don’t deserve. Oh that’s actually two reasons. Ya’ll think about it.

Rock on……baseball purist. Now if they can only convince the players association to drop the DH in the AL. Oh yeah, and make all series best of 7

By TommyP

October 30, 2008 11:59 AM | Link to this

Finally got to watch a little of the Series last night.

Interesting that Rollins brought the front page to Manuel. Very cool to see since Manuel benched him earlier in the year for lack of hustle.

Selig is pretty universally hated, isn’t he?

Maybe/hopefully the guy is married but Boog needs to do something about his appearance. When I mentioned to the folks I was watching the game with that Boog was a Braves announcer, they all were pretty much cracking up over his “look” shall we say.

VERY cool coverage of each individual Phillie player reacting to the last out last night. I thoroughly enjoyed that.

And the Peavy saga drags along…

And the LF saga has yet to begin….

By Lew

October 30, 2008 12:00 PM | Link to this

Kirkinga-Because we have depth at pitcher in the minors we should trade the one with what appears to be the most potential-not only as a ML starter, but also the one deemed closest to making the team? Dude, whether or not it is your argument, it is exceedingly shortsighted. The fact you can’t see that proves the point.

By Efrim

October 30, 2008 12:02 PM | Link to this

Just read an article on MLB.com from Bowman. In it he says this:

In order to get somebody like Peavy or Ordonez, Wren is going to have to trade some of his best prospects. But he hasn’t changed his stance regarding his small group of elite prospects, which likely includes Jason Heyward, Tommy Hanson, Freddie Freeman, Gorkys Hernandez and Julio Teheran.

Is Gorkys Hernandez ahead of Schafer in terms of potential? Not sure I have ever heard that. But maybe the Braves saw something in him this season that would lead them to believe that.

By David O'Brien

October 30, 2008 12:06 PM | Link to this

OK, these have to be considered the best opening paragraphs for a story in the AJC in recent memory. From a story by the always-entertaining John Kessler in today’s Food & Drink section:

Now that eventings are chilly and the food dollar needs stretching, it is time to start thinking about your butt.

If it is anything like mine, it’s both fatty and bony, weighs about 4 pounds, costs only $7 or $8 at the local supermarket and feeds a family for two night running.

The Boston butt is, without any question, one of the most economical and easy to cook cuts of meat you can find.

And that is, without any question, funny.

I read it three times to make sure I read it correctly.

Very clever. (And I don’t even know John, so it’s not as if I’m giving props to a buddy.)

By Lew

October 30, 2008 12:08 PM | Link to this

Well Denizens-Just got my advance copy of the new Queen/Paul Rodgers CD-The Cosmos Rocks.

Time for a quick trip to the potato patch and then to a good listening thereof. I’ll be back later with a review. For sure Freddie Mercury is unreplaceable, but Paul Rodgers is a good vocalist and Brian May and Roger Taylor are at the top of their game, so it should be some great Rock And Roll. Later.

By keylargo

October 30, 2008 12:12 PM | Link to this

Today’s shocking headline: John Daily found drunk outside Hooters

I find that hard to believe. DOB

DOB, Daily (and millions before him) is who the statement doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results was meant for.

By Billy

October 30, 2008 12:14 PM | Link to this

I am going out on a limb and say that all publications that rank prospects do so with glowing reports on those players. That is their job. The Sporting News, Baseball America, USA Today, and I could go on, but those writers get paid to be cheerleaders for their predictions.

You need to separate fans from people who get paid to cheer lead and if it makes you feel better Bill Shanks was heard in his recent 4 part audio interview with Frank Wren two days ago state on his radio show that he was the minor league cheerleader for Braves prospects.

So that is a title he proudly boasts and advertises. He admits it. Is he a homer? You Betcha he is. Does he have his favorites? You Betcha he does. He admits it openly on radio. I, for one, appreciate his radio show and the bits of information he passes along to us fans.

I appreciate all the hard work DOB, Mark Bowman, Bill Shanks and others do for us fans with their tireless and dedicated work in bringing us information. It is our responsibility to dissect it and form our own opinions based on that information.

Putting Bill Shanks or anyone down does not raise you above him or them. It is an unsavory trait.

By Lew

October 30, 2008 12:14 PM | Link to this

Unreplaceable? I meant irreplaceable.

By kirknga

October 30, 2008 12:19 PM | Link to this

Lew, I gave you my rationale. You didn’t even bother to deal with it. Why?

That you only deal with a part of my argument and then strip that part of all of it’s context is unfortunate. You obviously have a personal stake in Hanson that keeps you from entertaining any thought he might have to be traded.I’m sorry that this obviously hurts your feelings and you feel the need to lash out.

I say again, I don’t want to trade the guy. But to get Peavy I would if there was no other way and I gave reasons why.

By anti-shanks

October 30, 2008 12:32 PM | Link to this

Putting Bill Shanks or anyone down does not raise you above him or them. It is an unsavory trait.Billy

oh ye olde hypocrite. no more unsavory than automatically assuming that I was thrown off his site. Tsk Tsk. And I didn’t even put Bill down until you started spewing the thrown off site venom. I simply used his name since he is one of the biggest and best known prospect-huggers in all of baseball land. Practice what you preach. little dude.

By N Nine

October 30, 2008 12:40 PM | Link to this

top stories:

Royals Acquire Jacobs For Nunez—its done deal

John Daley still trying to sober up….

By Lew

October 30, 2008 12:41 PM | Link to this

kirkinga-Dude, you’re the one lashing out, not me. All I said was that the position of dealing Hanson now was shortsighted. I have a personal stake in Hanson remaining a Brave? Yeah, I get a huge bonus if he stays with Atlanta. What utter horse manure.

As for not paying attention to your argument- I did-I just don’t agree with it and despite whether you claim the theory as your own, you’ve at least twice made comments about Hanson, calling into question his value to the Braves. You’ve even made comments about his value being contingent on whether or not he was ready NOW. The fact I think that is wrong and shortsighted makes me walk away with hurt feelings and the inability to see another point of view? More Equine excrement, Dude. Surely you can come up with something of more substance than that.

Dude, get over yourself. I’m not the only one who has disagreed with your posts. Quite honestly, I have yet to see anyone who has agreed with you at all. Are we all walking away with our feelings hurt? Are we all wrong because we disagree with you?

As for the acquisition of Peavy-I have gone on record extensively on THAT subject. I’m wary of his injury potential and as a result, would not want to give up, a prospect of Hanson’s caliber. Obviously, from his own comments, Frank Wren feels he can get the trade done without giving up on Hanson. You don’t. Doesn’t make you right, does it?

Sorry you don’t agree, but that’s not my problem, is it? Since when is voicing MY opinion lashing out? It’s disagreement and nothing else. You’re taking it personally, not me. Maybe if I had called you And Idiot-but I didn’t, did I?

By Billy

October 30, 2008 12:45 PM | Link to this

anti-shanks

Nice name, lol, but you ain’t putting him down? What was your name on his site?

I have to get back to baseball talk. This is unhealthy debating with a youngster.

By Shaun

October 30, 2008 12:52 PM | Link to this

Remember we’re suppose to be contending next season, not rebuilding for 2011 or so.

kirknga, yes, I think Wren has to do his best to contend next season. But he also has to evaluate the likely value of the players he may trade for Peavy to determine if the Braves have a better chance for a big season in the near future with those players or if trading for Peavy now gives him a better chance for a big season.

It’s not cut-and-dry, as I said, and a lot depends on the young players, obviously. But if the Braves trade a slew of really talented young players, they may actually be worse off in the near future than they would be by just adding Peavy.

By Dadgum

October 30, 2008 1:04 PM | Link to this

Just to address about every other post. If the Braves get Peavy then the Braves will lose at least 1-2 players we really don’t want to see go in addition to lower level pitching prospects. We will lose 1 among the following is my guess: Escobar, Prado, Johnson, & Lillibridge. This is again in addition to the aforementioned pitching. Also this is assuming that a 3rd team is not involved in the trade.

By kirknga

October 30, 2008 1:06 PM | Link to this

Lew Now I’m an idiot too huh? Nah, you aren’t taking this personal at all are you?

Quite honestly, I have yet to see anyone who has agreed with you at all.

I said, I’m questioning the conventional wisdom so is it shocking many don’t agree.

You’ve even made comments about his value being contingent on whether or not he was ready NOW.

False, false, false. The word value doesn’t appear in my comments for a reason.

Like I said, sorry I hurt your feelings. If saying I’m sorry is lashing out in your opinion then that is very unfortunate. What I will not do is call you names, never done that on the blog,never will.

Thank you for at least expanding your comments beyond the whole “it’s shortsighted” insult thing. I appreciate the effort.

And still, no explanation of clinging to players as prospects, but not after they do well in the bigs? Still nothing on if the idea is to contend now, why trade a guy who plays a position where there is a lack of depth, but not so the guy where there is depth?

[Sigh]

By mbatl

October 30, 2008 1:08 PM | Link to this

Moving the WS to a neutral site would be the ultimate acknowledgment of television’s complete ownership of baseball. Might as well build a domed studio in Bristol CT, and just play it there.

Of course, as DOB pointed out, no actual fans could take 7-10 days off and travel to see the games (especially on short notice… at least on a college football bowl trip, you have about a month to plan).

So maybe hire some locals to sit in the stands. You could have producers holding up “applause” or “wave hankies” signs, so the uninterested crowd would respond correctly.

Really, imagine if this series had been played in, say, Los Angeles (warm weather, little chance of rain). I doubt they could’ve put 25 thousand fans in Dodger stadium 5 times, with Philly and Tampa Bay playing.

I went to 5 WS games from ‘91 to ‘96, and they were the best baseball experiences of my life (except my walkoff homer against the Grove Park Pelicans as a 12-year-old, of course).

Take away the possibility (however remote it may be) of doing that again, and I’d be pretty much ready to give up baseball entirely.

By Efrim

October 30, 2008 1:08 PM | Link to this

Dadgum

Don’t forget the 63 million dollars we’ll have to pay him…..along with all the young players/prospects.

Apparently, they want 5 players…..

5.

By Lee in S GA

October 30, 2008 1:09 PM | Link to this

Tigers decline Renteria’s option. No surprise here.

By Kentavo

October 30, 2008 1:14 PM | Link to this

As for the Butt; don’t overlook Pork Tenderloin, which you can get 2fer deals on at I put a tenderloin in the crockpot yesterday morning with a heaping of Carolina Treat mustard-based barbecue sauce and a layer of sour kraut, when I got home last night from my softball game, much to my surprise, I had pulled pork - awesome!!!

As for hardball: let the off-season games begin in earnest!!

By McFann O –[brr!]

October 30, 2008 1:20 PM | Link to this

mbatl—

Your 1:08 was great! This part had me LOL:

So maybe hire some locals to sit in the stands. You could have producers holding up “applause” or “wave hankies” signs, so the uninterested crowd would respond correctly.

Great stuff!

By McFann O –[brr!]

October 30, 2008 1:22 PM | Link to this

So when are they gonna hand out Silver Sluggers??

I’m guess November 7!

By kirknga

October 30, 2008 1:22 PM | Link to this

Shaun

I believe Wren says he expects to contend next season. That is the setup for my questions.

If you want to win now, why shouldn’t the players that are producing for you now be the ones you trade last instead of the guys who might produce, or might not?

Look, I’m greedy. I want Peavy and I want Hanson and I want Escobar too!

I think Wren is saying the right thing and doing the right thing by refusing to trade certain players. I just think that when push comes to shove, I’m letting the unknown quantity at a position of depth go before the known quantity at a position without it.

And don’t forget that part of the equation is taking on $6.5 million more in payroll which does not help our pursuit of another top starter and power bat. So if trading Hanson means that I get to keep my very good and cheap SS for the next decade, while maintaining payroll flexibility to meet my other needs this season, then I trade him( if if I have to).

By PhillyFanDan

October 30, 2008 1:24 PM | Link to this

You polled people in the Atlanta area about their interest in the WS and drew your conclusions from their responses? Thank goodness you’re a blogger and not doing meaningful detective work.
In a city that can’t reliably sell out Braves playoff games, I expect nothing short of apathy for anything outside the realm of hip hop, Nascar or Michael Vick.

By Jersey Gil

October 30, 2008 1:33 PM | Link to this

Yes…i still alive….I GLAD THAT THE WS AND THE SEASON IS OVER…..or i have to moved out of my own House…My wife was Mucha Loca last night when the Phillis won. I said to her last night…”Honey, enjoy when last” because next Year The Bravo going all the way…looking for next season Opening Day at Phillis to declare who’s who in the National league East.

By McFann O –[brr!]

October 30, 2008 1:34 PM | Link to this

Oh! Go suck eggs, FillyFanDan!

Shouldn’t you spell your name with a “ph” instead of an “f” for “Fan”?

By gayle

October 30, 2008 1:35 PM | Link to this

Boring as it might have been, are we to conclude that the AJC has deemed baseball a non-story since they can’t send their Braves’ beat writer to Philadelphia to cover it?

By Jon F.

October 30, 2008 1:35 PM | Link to this

Now that the Tigers paid Renteria 3mil to walk, any chance of him making another comeback in Atlanta next season? That way, Escobar could go to the Pads in the Peavy deal. I for one will be glad to see a reliable opposite field contact hitter at the top of the order.

By Shaun

October 30, 2008 1:36 PM | Link to this

I believe Wren says he expects to contend next season. That is the setup for my questions.

kirknga, what else is Wren supposed to say and believe? And actually I think the Braves have a decent shot to contend next season, too. Even if they make other moves besides a Peavy trade, I think they have an okay shot at contending.

I just don’t see how trading a bunch of young players for Peavy actually helps payroll flexibility. If anything, it hurts it. That’s why the Braves have to make for darn sure if they do a Peavy trade they trade the right players.

As far as trading Escobar, I’m with you. I think it would probably be about as bad as trading Hanson. I’m sure you’re responding to someone else, but I’m with you on Escobar.

The more I think about it, the more I think the Peavy trade is a bad idea…unless for some reason the Padres ask for lesser package than one centered around Hanson or Escobar or Schafer or of course Heyward.

By mbatl

October 30, 2008 1:39 PM | Link to this

Five players is exactly what I’d like to give up for Peavy. Quantity, not top quality.

I’d be fine with something like Morton, Locke, Redmon (that’s a lot of pitching - maybe even Rohrbough instead of Locke, if necessary), plus - just spitballing here - Prado and Diory Hernandez or Brent Lillibridge (meeting the middle infielder requirement).

I’d hate to lose Morton - from what I’ve read and seen, he’s got a lot of potential. And Rohrbough is a great prospect, but at least a couple of years away.

But that falls in the “give quality to get quality” category.

By TommyP

October 30, 2008 1:39 PM | Link to this

Philly: I’ll bet the Braves would sell out now if they made the playoffs.

That’s such a tired argument, too. Atlanta is so full of transplants that there isn’t much of a question why they don’t sell out all of their postseason games.

Add to the fact that making the playoffs meant nothing during that streak after awhile. It was World Series or bust after about 7 or so years.

Besides, there’s a lot more to do in Georgia than in Philly.

Was Mike Jacobs the guy that came up as a catcher? Can’t quite remember if he was the guy.

By PhillyFanDan

October 30, 2008 1:45 PM | Link to this

McFann - Re: “Shouldn’t you spell your name…”

Umm. No. Idiot.

By McFann O –[brr!]

October 30, 2008 1:45 PM | Link to this

mbatl—

Not a bad trade proposal. I’d do it…I think…

By Lew

October 30, 2008 1:48 PM | Link to this

KirkInGa-Whatever. Have it your way. You must be right. No one else could possibly have a clue. Have a nice day. OK?

By PhillyFanDan

October 30, 2008 1:50 PM | Link to this

TommyP - Re: Besides, there’s a lot more to do in Georgia than in Philly.

If you ever get your ignorant rear out of the miserable South, you’ll realize how ridiculous that statement is. Its okay that you’re not a good sports town - and to your point I don’t expect you to be one - just don’t go trying to justify it by proclaiming Georgia to be the cultural capital of the nation.

By David O'Brien

October 30, 2008 1:52 PM | Link to this

Besides, there’s a lot more to do in Georgia than in Philly.TommyP

Oh, really?

By kirknga

October 30, 2008 1:54 PM | Link to this

Shaun

I believe Wren could say that the Braves were rebuilding and expect to contend in a couple of years. I think fans would buy that. What they will not buy is just saying stuff to say it.

Trading a bunch a young prospects instead of players helps payroll flexibility because the Braves will not have to take on an additional $6.5 million at a time when they’ll still need another top starter, a power bat, and to resign Ohman, etc…

If we take on Green. Who knows if he’ll resign with us after next season, which means we could be looking for another SS. And if he does resign, he’s likely to get an increase in salary. So the Braves now have to spend money at a position they did not have to before.

By Mark Biles

October 30, 2008 1:55 PM | Link to this

Glad the series is over. It was boring.

They need to cut out some spring training games so the series can end in better weather in mid October.

By kirknga

October 30, 2008 1:57 PM | Link to this

Lew

I could be wrong. Wouldn’t be the first time, won’t be the last.

But that is why I ask questions instead of just coming in and assuming I know it all, or that the conventional wisdom about something is correct.

Thanks for the convo, hopefully you won’t hold a grudge and we’ll talk again.

By Lew

October 30, 2008 2:09 PM | Link to this

The following is a Review of a New CD. If you don’t like discussing music, if you don’t like the bands Queen, Bad Company, or Free, you might just want to scroll on past this post and save yourselves the obvious pain it will cause.

“The Cosmos Rocks” by Queen with Paul Rodgers

Listening to a new album by Queen is somewhat fraught with inherent difficulties right off the bat-there’s no more Freddie Mercury and can there ever really be a Queen without him? The Dude was a consummate front man with a vocal range for the ages. As I mentioned earlier, he is about as irreplaceable to a bands’ sound as anyone in rock over the past 30 years has been. I ask you-could anyone else have written or pulled off Bohemian Rhapsody? Might as well just face reality-the Dude was a Rock Legend if ever there was one.

Now that being said, Paul Rodgers is hardly chopped liver, having performed quite successfully with a couple of seminal rock bands, Free and Bad Company (I exclude The Firm-that band demeaned both Rodgers AND Jimmy Page). I pretty much believe that he was chosen for Queen’s reincarnation just because he doesn’t really sound like Freddie Mercury. This was probably a good decision.

The new Queen-maybe predictably-sounds like Free with Brian May on guitar. If you heard the “Return of the Champions” live set, think of the Covers they did of Wishing Well and All Right now. Much of this CD has that feel. I enjoyed those cuts on the live album, so I pretty well get into this as well.

The more rocking songs-Cosmos Rockin’ , Still Burnin’ and Warboys are fairly typical Queen rockers-lots of wailing Brian May guitar work on that custom made guitar of his. Warboys could have come from the Sheer Heart Attack sessions and Surf’s Up…School’s Out could have been a Queen concert rabble rouser back in the day and will likely be included in any live sets they will play supporting the album. The single offering, C-Lebrity is another raucous tune with good guitar work.

The slower pieces are somewhat reminiscent of Bad Company, but are typically enough Queen-like that though good music, leaves you really missing Freddie Mercury. I guess in the long run, we’ll never be able to listen to any band named Queen that includes Brian May and Roger Taylor without thinking of him. I suppose we’ll just have to settle for “that’s the way it is” and appreciate that while different, Paul Rodgers is good in his own right. I also suppose that comparisons are inevitable.

All in all, this is a pretty tight collection of songs. I kind of wish they’d rocked it up a bit more, but that’s just me. I like @$$ kicking rock and roll and always will. The recording is excellent and the production is about as good as could be had (though I wonder what difference Roy Thomas Baker’s production would have made). It is a well made CD and should provide some interesting listening.

By David O'Brien

October 30, 2008 2:11 PM | Link to this

In a city that can�t reliably sell out Braves playoff games, I expect nothing short of apathy for anything outside the realm of hip hop, Nascar or Michael Vick.PhillyFanDan

Apathy? Dude, it’s an absolutee college football hotbed, something you might not be familiar with in Philly.

Within a couple hours of Atlanta, there are five major football program (Georgia, Auburn, Alabama, Clemson, South Carolina) that sell out every game in humongous stadiums, most upwards of 90,000. Not to mention Georgia Tech, which has a stadium half that size but still draws crowds that dwarf anything in Philly.

Near as I can tell, you’ve got nearby Penn State but nothing else resembling major college football within easy driving distance of Philly (Penn in the city? Please, Ivy League football doesn’t count in this comparison.)

There’s also ACC basketball at G. Tech, which might not be Duke or Kansas for crowds, but certainly isn’t “apathy” either.

We’ve got sellouts for every SEC championship game and the bowl formerly known as Peach, and the SEC basketball tournament draws well at Georgia Dome.

So while there might not be as much passion for pro sports here, there certainly is more for college sports. You’re in a pro-sports town, much like New York is a pro-sports town.

I didn’t even mention stuff like gymnastics at UGA (you might laugh, but they draw 10,000 for just about every event, probably about what Penn draws for football? So strap on your leotard before you pooh-pooh coach Yocula — Lady Yoc, as we like to call her here at Braves/MIB — and her Gym Dogs).

By KC

October 30, 2008 2:11 PM | Link to this

THE 2008 SEASON IS OFFICIALLY OVER!!!!!!! THANK YOU GOD!!!

Within the next 3 months, we should have some idea of what 2009 may hold. By the end of January, any/all significant trades/signings should be completed. Also we’ll have a better idea in a few months as to whether or not Smoltz and/or Glavine will be able to factor into the plans for next season.

By Efrim

October 30, 2008 2:13 PM | Link to this

Shaun

The more I think about it, the more I think the Peavy trade is a bad idea…unless for some reason the Padres ask for lesser package than one centered around Hanson or Escobar or Schafer or of course Heyward.

Right there with you. Check in on the free agent market and keep the young players. Wait a year, maybe similar talent emerges in trade. It’s possible.

By Dadgum

October 30, 2008 2:14 PM | Link to this

Mark Biles…right on with your 1:55 post dude. Doubt DOB would object to less time in Dark Star. Seriously though starting the season early to end in mid-October will bring you far worse weather on the front end than what you would save on the back end of the season. Every year we have games snowed out to start the year and that is after the schedulers try to schedule warm climes the first week.

I do agree with trimming spring training by a couple of weeks. Hey I am also in favor of trimming the NFL pre-season too. Games get more meaningless and injury risks rise. Hey it is always discussed but no change so I guess they like the long spring training. Man, can’t wait for that Georgia Tech/Braves game in mid February. Should be rivetting!!

By Ron in mobile

October 30, 2008 2:14 PM | Link to this

DOB I just noticed that the Marlins shipped Jacobs to the Royals. I know every time we play down in Florida the crowds are a joke. Then every off season they ship away basically any player making considerably more than league minimum.

So my question is are the Marlins owernship just trying to make people uninterested and sort of tank their franchise(ala former seattle supersonics). Whats your view on this perpetual offseason unloading?

By Lew

October 30, 2008 2:14 PM | Link to this

Kirkinga-Dude, that’s what I’ve been trying to tell you. I’m not upset. My feelings aren’t hurt. I haven’t called you names (just said that one position was shortsighted). I’m not upset with you. I DON’T think Your And Idiot. Isn’t that what I said?

I just disagree with your couple of posts on trading Hanson. That’s all. I don’t disagree with everything you’ve ever said-just this topic. How can I hold a grudge when I’m not angry? Have no fear. All is cool. I promise. Really.

By Original Jon

October 30, 2008 2:15 PM | Link to this

Did anyone read this part of the Mark Bowman article? It says, and I quote ‘During a conversation with a friend in Atlanta last week, Peavy reiterated his desire to pitch for the Braves. But at the same time, he indicated he was concerned that the Braves might not be able to compete with the Phillies and Mets.’

Makes it sound as if Peavy wants to come here, but only if he is sure Atlanta is a serious contender.

By KC

October 30, 2008 2:18 PM | Link to this

Personally, I feel that if the Braves can get Peavy, add one more big bat, and re-sign Hampton… they’ll have a good chance next season.

If those are the only 2 significant pieces they add (along with keeping Hampton), they’ll need for some other things to roll their way (a comeback of either Smoltz or Glavine—at least one of the two… and bounceback season from Francoeur). But adding those 2 pieces will put them back in contention.

If the Braves can add Peavy, a slugger, AND another top-half-of-rotation starter, I don’t think there could be any question that the Braves are back in the picture for post-season contention.

Here’s hoping for a fruitful winter!

By David O'Brien

October 30, 2008 2:18 PM | Link to this

Dadgum, no, I would definitely not object to fewer days at Dark Star. But I don’t see it happening. Not movement afoot. We’re actually going to be there for nearly a week longer this season, and the regular season starts a week later than it did last year. Not a smart move by baseball.

By Daybed Wagmoe

October 30, 2008 2:22 PM | Link to this

Article from the LA Times

I apologize if this has already been posted — I haven’t seen it on here yet, but I could’ve missed it.

I’ll include the relevant part here: *Re-signing Derek Lowe or landing free agent CC Sabathia are options. A less likely solution is to trade for the suddenly available Jake Peavy. People close to the situation who were unauthorized to discuss the matter publicly say that the San Diego Padres would demand more in return from the Dodgers because they are in the same division.

Colletti said he hasn’t spoken this off-season with Brad Penny, who publicly questioned the team’s commitment to him. The Dodgers have to decide in the next week whether to pick up the $9.25-million option for 2009 or buy it out for $2 million.*

If this article is accurate, that’s good news to hear as a Braves fan. As for the Penny paragraph, if his shoulder looks like it could be alright fairly soon then the Braves might look at him.

By Lew

October 30, 2008 2:23 PM | Link to this

DOB-Dude, you forgot that hotbed of Philadelphia Football Fantasia-Temple. The first two college games I ever attended were Temple games (against Bowling Green and Boston College back in the late 60’s)-me and about 200 of my closest friends. Is it any wonder I moved south and went to UGA?

By Bfan

October 30, 2008 2:29 PM | Link to this

Must respectfully disagree with DOB & Peter Gammons. I enjoyed the WS this year because of the unusual matchup. Since the Braves aren’t in it, you have to at least be intrigued by the Rays road to the championship. And having worked in Philly on a project in 2005, I gotta give ‘em this — those fans are crazy in love with their teams. Maybe a little OCD, but with a life & death kind of passion that I found admirable. I couldn’t bring myself to pull for a NL East division foe to win, but it’s a nice story when one of the hard luck franchises in the game gets only the 2nd championship in their century+ history. Except for game 4, every game was close with drama in the 9th inning, and what a pleasure it was seeing a game resolved (two days late though it was) before 10pm! There ‘s a lesson in that silver lining for all the people who bemoan that kids aren’t getting interested in baseball anymore. Outside of Hawaii, how many 8-year olds ever see a clinching game unfold live?

As for the rain & cold, what are you going to do? Only obvious improvement would be to remove the off days within each series. Give everyone a day off between rounds, but keep playing the postseason the way they play the regular season. This also makes the the playoffs more like the season in terms of pitching. The way it is now, a team with two dominant starters (e.g. 2001 DBacks) has a better chance than a team with talent throughout their rotation (e.g. ‘91-2003 Braves).

By DonCoburleone

October 30, 2008 2:31 PM | Link to this

DOB you said last night that you think a deal for Peavy could get done without giving up Hanson or Heyward; but I’ve heard that there is no way a deal gets done without a top of the line pitching prospect and that means if the Braves won’t give up Hanson, they’d have to give up Jair Jurrjens. And IMO, that would be stupid.

So in other words, you think if the Braves put together a package of say, Cole Rohrbourgh, Charlie Morton, Yunel Escobar, Brandon Jones, and say, Blaine Boyer the Pad’s might bite?

By McFann O –[brr!]

October 30, 2008 2:34 PM | Link to this

FillyFanDan Umm. No. Idiot.

OK. Just thought I’d ask.

By Daybed Wagmoe

October 30, 2008 2:34 PM | Link to this

PhillyFanDan — Have you ever been to Atlanta, or Georgia for that matter? Are you able to speak from experience about the “miserable South,” or are you going by what you perceive about that part of the nation?

By PhillyFanDan

October 30, 2008 2:41 PM | Link to this

David - thanks for the meaningful insight into the college sports scene in ATL. I respect that in a city. It does make me wonder though why a league would want to put/keep a pro team there. The pros will always be secondary.

True, Philly is not a college football town but the do love their basketball.

By Shaun

October 30, 2008 2:42 PM | Link to this

Ron in mobile, that’s actually a good move by the Marlins to unload Jabobs. Jacobs’ career AVG/OBP/SLG: .262/.318/.498…and he’s a firstbaseman.

I think the Marlins just realize it’s profitable for them if they acquire young, cheap players; don’t worry about whether fans come out; and hope that every now and then they’ll go deep into the playoffs or win the Series and make a money then. Also, they perpetually try to con the locals into giving up their tax dollars for a new stadium, and they figure eventually folks are going to give in.

By PhillyFanDan

October 30, 2008 2:43 PM | Link to this

Daybed - I regret using that adjective. My emotions got the best of me, though my point still stands.

By kirknga

October 30, 2008 2:52 PM | Link to this

KC, that might be what ends up happening. Or perhaps they sign a guy like Burnett, resign Hampton, and bring up Hanson in addition to the big bat.

I think we’ve focused on Peavy so much that we haven’t really focus much on who the second starter might be.

The Peavy deal could effect who the second guy is if we have to take back additional salary.

I’ve predicted that the Braves would flirt with acquiring someone big, but back down because of price and that we would see Hampton and Glavine in the rotation and maybe one value-priced innings-eater guy added to the rotation.

By Lew

October 30, 2008 3:02 PM | Link to this

PhillyFanDan-Dude, I think you have no real clue about the type of fan that resides in Atlanta. I was born and raised in Philly and moved to Geogia soon after I graduated HS, so I guess I have a pretty clear view of both cities.

Philadelphia has a Metro population of more than three times that of Atlanta. Yet, despite this population disparity, you only pulled in 3.4 million fans with a World Series Championship team, while the Braves pulled in 2.5 million with one third the population and a team damn near 20 games under .500.

Which team drew more per capita support for their team? Sure wasn’t the Phillies. Of course, that per capita might just rise for the Phillies, seeing how Philly and Detroit are the only two major cities who have actually lost population the past 15 years or so. Wow. To be lumped in with Detroit as a city where people are running to leave. How proud you must be.

By Wayne, the Salesman

October 30, 2008 3:03 PM | Link to this

Edwin Jackson, Andy Sonnenstine, Pat Maholm, Ian Snell, Aaron Laffey are names that come to mind as non-Peavy possibilities. Also, you have some buy low, hope they return guys like Bannister in KC or Hill w/ the Cubbies.

Personally, I would make a play for Matt Cain, then punt and trade Blanco for Ryan Freel!!!

:-)

By Ron in mobile

October 30, 2008 3:03 PM | Link to this

Shaun I see what your saying about it not being a terrible move. At the same time the guy did hit 32 homers this season. Plus ten of his 80 career bombs have come off our pitching. Thats proably why his name jumped at more me than some others would have.

Even still there is no way the marlins replace 32 and 93 rbi production next year. If im a Marlins fan im not happy

By David O'Brien

October 30, 2008 3:14 PM | Link to this

So in other words, you think if the Braves put together a package of say, Cole Rohrbourgh, Charlie Morton, Yunel Escobar, Brandon Jones, and say, Blaine Boyer the Pad’s might bite?DonC

Something along those lines, perhaps, though I don’t know that the Braves would include Escobar in that package if giving up all those prospects. We’ll see. Might have to, but I don’t know if they would.

They aren’t going to trade Jurrjens, so you needn’t bring his name into the equation. Hanson and Jurrjens, I can’t see them dealing. You’re talking about two young guys who could occupy two of the top three spots in your rotation for years to come.

By DAP

October 30, 2008 3:19 PM | Link to this

i would like to echo others’ scoff at phillyfandan and also add that southern sports fans are very passionate and actually know how to act in public, unlike thier northern counterparts, especially in philly.

By anti-shanks

October 30, 2008 3:21 PM | Link to this

Nice name, lol, but you ain’t putting him down? What was your name on his site?

I have to get back to baseball talk. This is unhealthy debating with a youngsterBilly

I bet I’m a good bit older than you are and like I said i ‘ve never been on his site. wouldn’t waste my time. You’re a hypocrite for all your lecture and then calling me a liar, but I already figured that you were a close-minded little judgmental p**. And I’m not the only one on here who thinks Bill is pretty worthless except as a cheerleader. You might notice that if you could get your nose out of his rump-roast long enough to look, Billy boy.

By DAP

October 30, 2008 3:25 PM | Link to this

ron in mobile i think the marlins plan is to improve defense, mostly, so they will move cantu to first (i think) and get some one who can play 3rd. while 32 and 93 isnt easy to replace, its not like they dont have many other weapons, and a decent third baseman could give them production that isnt that far off of that, while giving them better defense, which is worth some runs.

defense and pitching were the marlins’ weaknesses last year, so id say the move is a good one taking everything into account.

By Wayne, the Salesman

October 30, 2008 3:25 PM | Link to this

Is November 20th the date that rosters need to be set for the major league club?

By RC

October 30, 2008 3:28 PM | Link to this

Can someone clarify Edgar Renteria’s arbitration situation? I thought I read somewhere that because his option was declined the Tigers also gave up the right to offer him arbitration, yet now I’m reading that due to his Type-A designation, if the Tigers offer arbitration they will gain a draft pick from the team that signs him. Can they offer him arbitration or not?

By Shaun

October 30, 2008 3:30 PM | Link to this

Ron in mobile, I would be happy if I were a Marlins fan. You just got rid of a firstbaseman that made outs more often than any firstbaseman in the game. Jacobs had the sixth-worst on-base percentage in the majors among qualifiers…and he’s a firstbaseman!

By kirknga

October 30, 2008 3:30 PM | Link to this

Interesting names Wayne.

I could see Sonnenstine, Cain, maybe Snell. But Pat Maholm?

By Lawrenceville Matt

October 30, 2008 3:36 PM | Link to this

Just saw this post on the San Diego Padres blog…wasn’t sure if it was sarcastic, I certainly laughed…You decide:

“Since the Peavy trade rumors arn’t going to stop, what about this proposition: Jake Peavy and Khalil Greene to the braves for Yunel Escobar, Jordan Shafer, Jason Heywerd, Tommy Hanson, and Jair Jurrjens/Or another top pitching prospect. Does that sound reasonable?”

By Wayne, the Salesman

October 30, 2008 3:38 PM | Link to this

RC An amateur’s explanation: They had a contract w/ a buyout option. When they declined to pick up his option, he immediately became a FA. That is what I believe. I don’t think they can offer arbitration since he had an option, and they chose to decline it.

Hope that’s right…

If we have to deal Escobar or KJ in a Peavy deal, maybe Edgar would be interested in coming back to ATL. I would love to see him with the tomahawk on his uni again.

By ccrider

October 30, 2008 3:40 PM | Link to this

Returning to baseball rather than anti-shanks discussing brown nosing or phillyfandan, whose Philadelphia fans have long been known for being the most rude, obscene, violent, and moronic in sports, yapping about sports fans in Atlanta he obviously knows nothing about. The White Sox just declined the option on catcher Toby Hall. A vet catcher who should be cheap and hits lefties well. He sounds like a good potential backup to McCann to me.

By Wayne, the Salesman

October 30, 2008 3:40 PM | Link to this

Would you guys deal Francouer for Aaron Harang?

By Wayne, the Salesman

October 30, 2008 3:45 PM | Link to this

From a fans perspective, it is often times hard to determine why a player had an off year. Sometimes the reason is obvious, other times not so.

Hopefully our scouts have a good list of those players out there that might could be had for less, due to an off season (the Frenchy guys).

What truly happened to guys like Harang, Bannister, Hill, Arroyo and Maholm (and others)???

Where can we find somebody else’s Kyle Davies that needs a change of scenery?

Forgot to mention on my previous post: Frenchy for Harang AND Ryan Freel!!

:-)

By DAP

October 30, 2008 3:48 PM | Link to this

lawrencevill matt you gotta post a link for that padres blog, man. ive gotta see this.

By Josh P.

October 30, 2008 3:49 PM | Link to this

In a heartbeat

By Wayne, the Salesman

October 30, 2008 3:49 PM | Link to this

L’ville Matt If we throw in McCann, then I do that deal if I’m the Padres. Then as a Utahn, I could just start pulling for my SD Pad”braves”. Heck it would be easier to see my home team that way!

By DonCoburleone

October 30, 2008 3:53 PM | Link to this

Thats good to hear about Jurrjens DOB… I don’t think he can be a true Ace one day, but definately a solid #2. I just hope he can stay healthy.

And DOB (or anyone with a link to a scouting report) could you tell me what Tommy Hanson’s repertoire is and the things he does that are above average as well as any potential weaknesses??

By Steve from OH

October 30, 2008 3:54 PM | Link to this

Don’t you think “prospect-hugging” is a bit of an oversimplification? It’s not a question of loving all prospects, but you know, using things like scouting and player evaluation to identify the good ones so you can keep them in your system and trade away the ones you don’t like (or like less) for players that you need, like Jake Peavy. Won’t get very far trading away your entire farm system every offseason for a few players, especially with a limited payroll like ours (relatively speaking, of course). Just the same, you won’t get very far not trading a single prospect unless you’re like the Marlins and have absolutely no cash whatsoever.

The whole idea is saying that you think players x, y, and z (or whoever) are can’t-miss, and keeping them as part of your future plan, and giving up other good players that you don’t particularly think fit into the future plan quite as fluidly (Flowers and one of Hernandez or Schafer come to mind).

Keep in mind that Ryan Howard, Chase Utley, Cole Hamels, Pat Burrell and Jimmy Rollins were all Phillies prospects. Good thing that they didn’t trade those guys away, eh? It is not unreasonable to suggest that one can build a team through drafting, developing, and promoting players through the farm system. It is a smart thing to do. And when time comes to make a deal for someone, it is important NOT to trade the players that you are planning to build with (Heyward, Hanson, Schafer, Freeman) so that you can keep your young core intact and add to it, not add and subtract at the same time.

Efrim, mbatl:

Totally agree. Quantity over quality. Give ‘em all the Redmonds and Medlens and Flowers’ they want. If it keeps Schafer, Hanson, et al in our system, give ‘em 5 or 6 lower-level guys or 2nd tier prospects.

By Lee in S GA

October 30, 2008 3:55 PM | Link to this

Lawrenceville Matt

On a Padres blog I could see where a Padres fan would really think that was going to happen. Everyone dreams I suppose. I still think if Peavy is acquired Jordan Shafer or Hanson one (not both) will be included in the deal. I really don’t want the trade to happen if that is the case. Jurrjens no way. Escobar a possiblity.

By Lawrenceville Matt

October 30, 2008 3:58 PM | Link to this

Here is the link…the post or question is near the bottom froma Dave Turok:

Stupid Padres Question

By Wayne

October 30, 2008 4:00 PM | Link to this

Steve Let’s try to hang onto Craig Kimbrell too! Might be our closer in a few.

By kirknga

October 30, 2008 4:02 PM | Link to this

Wayne,

Heck No! Francouer should not be traded, he should still be considered part of the young core.

I’m not going to say that I know he’ll bounce back, but I think he’s shown enough to merit one more season.

By Shaun

October 30, 2008 4:05 PM | Link to this

Keep in mind that Ryan Howard, Chase Utley, Cole Hamels, Pat Burrell and Jimmy Rollins were all Phillies prospects. Good thing that they didn’t trade those guys away, eh? It is not unreasonable to suggest that one can build a team through drafting, developing, and promoting players through the farm system. It is a smart thing to do.

Actually, Steve, I would argue that it’s necessary to build the core of a great team through drafting and player development. Rarely in the history of the game have we seen a team build a winner primarily through free agency and/or trading away young talent for proven talent. Usually it’s building a core from within, making some savvy trades and signing free agents to fill holes.

By Lawrenceville Matt

October 30, 2008 4:07 PM | Link to this

Lee…I hear ya…I realize trades are one-sided. This offer just caught me off-guard and even scared me a bit.

By Steve from OH

October 30, 2008 4:09 PM | Link to this

Wayne:

Don’t think we can trade him anyway (isn’t there a certain time period after a player is drafted that you can’t trade him?)…so we’ll get a good look at him next season. All reports say 97-98 MPH heater and good slider. I like that kid too.

By Tomas

October 30, 2008 4:10 PM | Link to this

Mike Jacobs for Leo Nuñez.

Oh my god, the marlins GM, it’s truly a genius. Leo Nuñez is awesome, but now they need to acquire two left handed bats.

By redchip

October 30, 2008 4:10 PM | Link to this

Anyone know of the players who are out of options this coming year? Seems like we might have a ton of decisions to make on that side of the business.

By N Nine

October 30, 2008 4:12 PM | Link to this

You’re talking about two young guys who could occupy two of the top three spots in your rotation for years to come DOB

and Peavy would take that last spot

By Steve from OH

October 30, 2008 4:13 PM | Link to this

Shaun:

That’s the point I was trying to make. Giving up our top prospects takes us farther away from that goal, which is why we shouldn’t do it.

By Wayne

October 30, 2008 4:13 PM | Link to this

The moderator on the Padres Q&A blog, said to the guy: “Braves said they aren’t giving up Hanson or Heyward.”

He forgot to add dummy

kirknga Not saying I would deal Frenchy either. Personally, I think he will come back. If Harang’s issues last year were temporary, he could be a strong top of the rotation guy. Is that worth giving up a good defensive outfielder with 290-25-100 potential?

These questions are what Frank Wren gets paid to answer…

By kirknga

October 30, 2008 4:15 PM | Link to this

Steve from OH

I agree with you on the oversimplification part. I think whoever first used that term did so in jest.

With regards to the Phillies you mentioned, not only were they once prospects, the Phillies didn’t trade them away once they got to the big leagues and played well.

I hope the Braves follow a similar path.

By Wayne

October 30, 2008 4:16 PM | Link to this

Shaun Or dealing experienced players to other teams for prospects that fill gaps in our system. IE John Smoltz, Jair Jurrjens, Gorkys H, etc.

Gotta run…later.

By ncscoots

October 30, 2008 4:22 PM | Link to this

So strap on your leotard before you pooh-pooh coach Yocula

Not to mention, Coach Yoc could make the poster in question cry “Mama”, after the pain subsided enough.

But, DOB, I thought Coach Yoc was retiring, last year or this year, one of those?

By Shaun

October 30, 2008 4:27 PM | Link to this

Oh my god, the marlins GM, it’s truly a genius. Leo Nuñez is awesome, but now they need to acquire two left handed bats.

I don’t know if the Marlins’ GM is a genius and I don’t know about Nunez being awesome but it’s great for them that they dumped Jacobs on the Royals.

The Royals have plenty of young firstbase/DH talent yet they acquire a league average hitter, at best, that can only play firstbase/DH.

By The Hungry Madgarian

October 30, 2008 4:52 PM | Link to this

Where could a Braves fan go to get a rundown on HS and College players who might be available when the Braves choose?

Don’t we have the 7th or 8th choice?

Thank you

By Jake

October 30, 2008 4:55 PM | Link to this

thanks for the meaningful insight into the college sports scene in ATL. I respect that in a city. It does make me wonder though why a league would want to put/keep a pro team there. The pros will always be secondary

That’s not necessarily the case. Atlanta makes perfect sense in putting a sports franchise. I know when most people think of new franchises they think the Rays, Marlins, Diamondbacks, Carolina Panthers and so on but in comparison to your Philadelphia franchises those in Atlanta are still not that old. The Hawks, Falcons, and Braves all began playing in Atlanta in the late 1960’s and the Phillies have been in Philadelphia since the 1800’s. You have got to give franchises some time to grow. Everyone of them will go through some ups and downs. There are many other factors that lead to it like the fact that most philadelphians are native born while a lot of people in Atlanta are making their secondary home here. I would even argue that in the case of the Braves they are more so a regional team than just the team of atlanta and georgia. They have many fans throughout the south that make their way to the games and nationally i think they are more popular than the phillies. I think this blog alone shows that.

By gogobraves

October 30, 2008 5:15 PM | Link to this

good stuff about Hanson

http://orioles.scout.com/a.z?s=251&p=2&c=803661

By Braveheart

October 30, 2008 5:26 PM | Link to this

thanks for the meaningful insight into the college sports scene in ATL. I respect that in a city. It does make me wonder though why a league would want to put/keep a pro team there. The pros will always be secondary.

The Braves have had over 30,000 fans a game for almost two decades now. It’s now about 2 or 3 times as much as it was two decades ago.

The Falcons sold out the Georgia Dome for five seasons during the Michael Vick years and may build towards that again once the Vick scars heal and if Matt Ryan continues to be as good as he looks and if they ever have two back to back winning seasons for the first time in franchise history.

The Hawks drew crowds in the Dominique years …… and have had trouble drawing recently because the management of that team is clueless. If they ever got a clue and give the city a great team with a great star or two, the NBA would likely be huge here …… you only need to look at the television ratings during the NBA playoffs to see how much the NBA fan base is being squandered here due to incompetent ownership and front office management.

The Thrashers are relatively new but are building, as far as I can tell, a good, loyal fan base. Given enough time, I believe the NHL will work here like it does in most cities ….. with a small, devout, loyal, almost cultish following that heavily attends games.

There is no greater golf event than the Masters ……. try to get a ticket to that thing …. even better, try getting one for a reasonable price.

Even a silly thing like arena football gets good attendance in Gwinnett from the few games I have gone to there.

And NASCAR in the Atlanta area is not as big as you’d think. Just check the AJC’s website. You’d think there would be a fulltime NASCAR beat writer/columnist but there doesn’t seem to be one b/c NASCAR really isn’t as big here as your bias about Southerners would lead you to believe. If it was, I’m guessing the AJC would take advantage of that. Nevertheless, NASCAR is big in the overall Southeast region the Braves draw their fan base from and NASCAR gets thousands and thousands attending or watching races every Sunday. Talledega alone draws enormously in the two races they have.

So, I don’t think it is fair to say that pro sports is not big here. I also think you have to remember that this is a growing city being increasingly filled with transplants from other cities who already have loyalties to other teams that they have loved since their childhood. As those folks live here longer and longer and inevitably get sucked in because they grow fond of some guys on Atlanta teams and as those folks give birth to kids who naturally become attached to the local teams here that their friends at school follow, attendance should grow even more.

By Kentavo

October 30, 2008 5:33 PM | Link to this

Is there anybody left in Philly?

I think there’ll all down here at Myrtle Beach?

By nolie

October 30, 2008 5:39 PM | Link to this

The whole idea is saying that you think players x, y, and z (or whoever) are can’t-miss, and keeping them as part of your future plan, and giving up other good players that you don’t particularly think fit into the future plan quite as fluidly (Flowers and one of Hernandez or Schafer come to mind).Steve

sure, that’s the best way to approach it, but it certainly isn’t foolproof. Guys who are labeled can’t-miss do in fact miss sometimes, and guys who might be rated lower at that time may succeed much better. And of course it gets even more complicated when you are discussing dealing for a true impact pitcher of which there are not that many. Making it even more attractive with Peavy is the somewhat below market-value salary and the length of the contract insuring that he would be around for a time, not just a one to two year deal like Tex was. In order to get a guy of that stature you are going to have to give up someone who hurts most times. I’d love to have him and I’d probably give more than many here would cause I know first hand how much good luck is involved in finding such a guy and having him reach that level. Rememder a decade or more ago when the Mets had three “can’t miss”” #1/#2 pitchers and not one of them ever produced for them, mostly injuries ith that case. Anyway, the Braves brass have been pretty darn good about who to keep and who to trade so I’m willing to abide by their decision whichever way it goes in this case(as if any of us had a choice). There are other options even though none quite such a good fit. Let’s just get something done towards those two starters and the Big Bopper.

By ShaSha

October 30, 2008 5:43 PM | Link to this

One of the worst World Series ever. Few people I know watched it and neither did I. Surfing channels and running into it was about all. After Game 1, it was a joke. I don’t believe the best teams made to the final series, but that’s life. These mini playoff series favor whoever is hot at the time. I’m sure TV rating were way down for this one. Philly and Tampa watched it and the rest of the world was tuned into some more interesting, like Jay Leno.

By nolie

October 30, 2008 5:46 PM | Link to this

Rarely in the history of the game have we seen a team build a winner primarily through free agency and/or trading away young talent for proven talent. Usually it’s building a core from within, making some savvy trades and signing free agents to fill holes.Shaun

You’re right but to an extent. I don’t think that’s all that appropriate when discussing the Braves as they have never attempted any such thing since Bobby/John/Frank have been here. They have a high percentage of home-grown right now and even trading for Peavy would not really change that fact.They have almost always traded for replacement rather than use free agency as Frank said a few weeks ago it is usually more efficient. They aren’t about to become Yankees South.

By mbatl

October 30, 2008 5:50 PM | Link to this

Tough day for Tommy Hanson at Arizona…. 5 innings pitched, 0 runs (of course) and 0 walks … but he gave up 3 hits and only struck out 5. Geez, the guy is slipping.

Seriously, the problem I think Tommy will have when he reaches the majors is that he’ll give up much more contact. Today, 47 strikes in 66 pitches… he’s probably gonna have to learn to throw fewer strikes when facing better hitters.

By Epinephrine

October 30, 2008 5:54 PM | Link to this

Well, Hanson was dominate again today. Dude’s stock is going through the roof.

It does seem he might have minor control issues, but that should not be a significant problem going forward.

As for Schafer—it is becoming pretty clear the guy cannot hit left handed pitching. Wouldn’t surprise me if we had a platoon in center this year.

By Wayne

October 30, 2008 6:00 PM | Link to this

Who will Schafer platoon with? All our CF’ers are lefties. (hint: R.F.) Sometimes it’s hard to avoid the inevitable…

:-)

By TennesseePaul

October 30, 2008 6:01 PM | Link to this

Within a couple hours of Atlanta, there are five major football program (Georgia, Auburn, Alabama, Clemson, South Carolina)

Just for fairness sake, Knoxville TN is the same distance as USC (columbia)… The Vols have a massive stadium (second largest in college football I believe) seating almost 110,000. They too sale out every game.

By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)

October 30, 2008 6:08 PM | Link to this

WOW, if Mike Jacobs can be had for a pitcher who projects as a closer (Leo Nunez), then Scott Olsen can be had for something relatively cheap. Like one minor league fringe prospect?

I would have suggested Jo-Jo Reyes straight up for Olsen, but under the current trade value system that seems to be a bit much.

By nitram odarp

October 30, 2008 6:13 PM | Link to this

maybe this would be the time to include schaffer in a package for peavy if he cant hit the left hander very well. anything that keeps them away from the untouchables. what about bringing back kotsay he seemed to be able to hit the lefties pretty well

By Bruce's Pearl

October 30, 2008 6:16 PM | Link to this

WAYNE: Infante is servicable in center and hits RH,that would certainly be one possibility and Cox wants to get him AB’s.If he platooned with either Schafer or Anderson,he would likely get in about 200-250 AB’s. Throw in games at SS and 2B in addition to PH he would probably end up with about 400-500 AB’s. He is not the greatest CF’er but he is much better there than in left.

By Bruce's Pearl

October 30, 2008 6:20 PM | Link to this

TNPAUL:

After renovations Neyland Stadium seats 102,037 the largest in the south and third largest in America.Including standing room there were over 106,000 for the Alabama game last Saturday.

By nolie

October 30, 2008 6:21 PM | Link to this

As for Schafer—it is becoming pretty clear the guy cannot hit left handed pitching. Wouldn’t surprise me if we had a platoon in center this yeaEpi

Kinda looks that way so far. The main reason that I would be more than happy to include him in a package for Peavy. It’s not impossible, but it’s highly unlikely that he will develop into anything remotely approaching Peavy’s impact stature.

By Wayne

October 30, 2008 6:28 PM | Link to this

nitram Maybe we should just put your namesake out in CF. Heck, I hear he is superman! (I like Kotsay too!)

If LA pays all but 1 million of AJ’s salary, he could platoon with Kotsay. (for a million bucks salary, if he flops, we can cut his fat azz.) We could send them Scott Thorman for him.

What are the chances that FW puts together at least one deal next week in CA?

Coach As much of a flop as he was for half of the year, if Reyes could ever get his head straight, he might be a decent #3 guy down the road. At times he has looked very good.

If he has to go to sweeten some other deal, I am OK with that too.

Does anybody know what happened to Bannister in KC and Hill in Chicago this past year? They had breakthrough seasons in ‘07, but flopped this year.

By Steve from OH

October 30, 2008 6:30 PM | Link to this

nolie, that’s true, and like you said, that’s why a team needs a top-notch system of not only evaluating players, but keeping good player projections on the lower-level prospects and the ability to adjust those projections as a prospect moves through the system (i.e. a “toolsy” player that doesn’t produce is good trade bait and stuff like that). My point is that that is the best way to create a winning franchise, not just a team that wins every time the team sells the farm for a few free agents-to-be. I don’t want to be that team, and a megablockbuster deal of a ton of prospects for Peavy really doesn’t make us an instant contender in my view. We NEED to take a gamble on some of those guys to help us in the future to be competitive. We’ve got too many holes to just go out and start trading away to fill.

We need Peavy, there’s no doubt that getting him is a great start to the whole process, however, we need more than just him and some of our needs are directly available in our farm system, so it is silly to trade them away and create a hole while filling another.

I agree with you that he’s a special case, no doubt, and there really isn’t a good answer to how we should go about getting him. My stance is that pretty much all lower-level prospects are in play (except Heyward and Teheran), but guys that are ready to fill in on the major league roster like Schafer and Hanson are not. They figure to both have an impact on the ‘09 club and beyond, and be good. Not as clear of a picture with the younger guys, which is why I’m more willing to deal them. Of course, Hanson and Schafer both have excellent scouting reports and numbers and all that jazz, so that helps me make my decision too.

By Wayne

October 30, 2008 6:32 PM | Link to this

Bruce’s P Let’s keep Infante out of centerfield, if at all possible. He is average at best on the infield. Decent hands, but not a lot of range. Dude looks lost in the outfield.

I will be curious if ‘08 was legit with the bat for him, or an aberration.

By mbatl

October 30, 2008 6:33 PM | Link to this

Schafer hit lefties pretty well in 2007 at Myrtle Beach, but certainly did struggle against them this year at Mississippi. It may just be a matter of adjusting to better breaking pitches from the left side. But, it’s a valid concern if you’re thinking of him as our CF in 2009.

By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)

October 30, 2008 6:40 PM | Link to this

The whole gist of the problem surrounding the proposed Braves/Padres Peavy trade is this. The Padres want pitching and the Braves just don’t have it to give. Right now the Braves rotation projects as Jair Jurrjens and a bunch of what if’s. I really don’t think it’s gonna happen.

Now that the Phillies are the defending World Champions, I think it sort of puts the Braves 2009 chances of contending into perspective. Can you say wild card?

By Brian

October 30, 2008 6:48 PM | Link to this

nolie- You’re talking to an old school baseball guy,(Steve)! Just can’t tell him or Coach anything they don’t already know! REDICULOUS

Here is Steve’s ‘08 Braves:

• Jurrjens/ Glavine/ Hampton/ Morton/ Reyes/Hanson

Come on, let the kids play…we’ll get ‘em in 2014!!

By keylargo

October 30, 2008 6:49 PM | Link to this

You’re right Wayne. Let’s just get Freel and his $4mm salary. We’ll forget about signing Ohman and the payroll will be OK> 8)

And while we are joking around, one of the worst nightmares I could think of is having AJ back hitting cleanup - with

By Buffalo NY Braves Fan

October 30, 2008 6:51 PM | Link to this

I’m not so quick to give up on Schafer. As mbatl pointed out, he may just be adjusting to better breaking pitches from the left side. Remember, it took Adam LaRoche a while to adjust to hitting lefties, and he came around fairly well the season before he was traded.

As long as Schafer has a good work ethic and wants to improve (the opposite of Andruw) then I think he will find his stroke against lefties as well.

By Wayne

October 30, 2008 6:59 PM | Link to this

key I have been joking about Freel for a long time now, though I do like him as a good bench player, but not at 4 mil per.

I hope you realize that the AJ and Prado in center talk was all tongue in cheek.

Although it would be fun to get Andruw, tell him he had to lose down to 205 lbs, or get cut.

What scares me the most is that we either trade Schafer, or he flops. Then we have to live with Anderson or Blanco in CF for 2009. that is scary.

I personally like getting a guy like Swisher because of his versatility, and then add Casey Blake. What would those two cost us together… 12 million??

Or deal for Jermaine Dye.

I think Scott Olsen might be a decent pickup. He had some personal issues a couple of years back, but has put together two pretty good seasons.

I also like Edwin Jackson of the Rays. Would Diaz be enough to pry him away? Proabably not…

In the end, all this talk is just wild speculation until the Peavy issue gets resolved.

By Wayne

October 30, 2008 7:04 PM | Link to this

What is the skinny on Jon Owings, who played OF at MB this past season? He put up pretty good numbers there, and finished strong. Supposedly has a strong arm like his big brother.

By Buffalo NY Braves Fan

October 30, 2008 7:06 PM | Link to this

Wayne,

As bad as Schafer might flop offensively…. he’s still got + defensive skills and a + arm in CF. I think there won’t be that much of a difference of him struggling in CF vs what we might get out of Anderson or Blanco this year.

I am interested in what Dye could bring if he plays LF for us. Thats a solid bat, 25-30HR power and an RBI man for the middle of the order.

I’m still interested to see what happens with Pat Burrell actually. Even if he isn’t the best defender, neither is Matt Diaz… and I remember Infante looking like a butcher in LF last season as well. Burrell has more power than both of them, and can’t be any worse than Diaz in LF.

By keylargo

October 30, 2008 7:19 PM | Link to this

Wayne

Sorry, I didn’t realize my last post had gone through. It disappeared and I thought it was in blog heaven.

But anyway, I was right in the middle of writing and knew you were kidding about Freel.

But really, don’t joke about AJ coming back> LOL can you imagine him hitting cleanup again and Bobby won’t move him down in the lineup or bench him when he’s hitting .148 with runners in scoring position? I never want to go through that again

And speaking of AJ’s weight, I came across a roster the year he came up. He was listed at 6’ 1” and 170. Packing on 70+ pounds makes it tough.

By Efrim

October 30, 2008 7:26 PM | Link to this

Here is an alarming article about available free agent starters:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3673272

Lowe and Burnett looking for at least 16 million per year on long term contracts.

I figure Lowe will get 4 years and 60-64 million and Burnett will get 5 years and 80-90 million. Can’t say I would be too happy if the Braves went for them at those prices. Peavy’s average over the next 4 seasons would be 15.75 million. He is probably a better bet than Lowe or Burnett over the next four seasons, although there are those whispers about his health. And you are giving up 3-5 prospects/players on the guy. Tough decisions for Frank Wren. We have 40 million to play with though, it could be worse.

There are some other pitchers that could be options. I know Boras is his agent, but Oliver Perez might be someone we could take a look at. 27 years old, with a great K rate and excellent opp. BA. Gotta figure Boras gets some team to pay 5 years and 75 million.

Dempster seems destined to re-up with the Cubbies. Sheets is a Jason Schmidt disaster waiting to happen. In fact, I bet you he asks for Schmidt money (3 years and 48 million). Randy Wolf had a pretty good year. He has trouble staying healthy but could really be a bargain. But again, the guy will probably get 3 years and 30 million from someone. Randy Johnson is too old and CC Sabathia is too pricey.

Won’t even mention the likes of Jon Garland and Branden Looper(even though I just did)….they are terrible.

Well, there it is. That is basically the free agent market for starters. What does everyone think about those guys?

By BravesFanInRockies

October 30, 2008 7:30 PM | Link to this

Wayne,

Jackson might be available, since it looks as if Price will go into the rotation.

Don’t know how to make a trade with them fit, however. Baldelli may test the market., so they’ll need a RF. Hmm….

By David O'Brien

October 30, 2008 7:33 PM | Link to this

TennPaul, I almost included Tennessee, but for some reason I thought Knoxville was farther away than Columbia. I guess it’s not, then?

By Steve from OH

October 30, 2008 7:38 PM | Link to this

Here’s a little blurb on Luis Valdez (who was added to the 40-man this week) from Baseball America:

Valdez, 24, has taken an unusual path to the Braves’ 40-man roster, but with a firm 90-94 mph fastball, a plus splitter and a slider as a third pitch, he’s got a chance. Signed with the Pirates out of the Dominican Republic at age 16 in 2001, Valdez spent three years in the DSL as a reliever before making his U.S. debut in 2004. He reached high Class A in 2007, his seventh pro season, posting a 4.79 ERA but striking out 78 in 73 innings. Atlanta signed him as a minor league free agent last offseason and he proceeded to turn in one of the Double-A Southern League’s better relief seasons, going 4-3, 2.76 with 77-36 strikeouts-walks in 65 innings for Mississippi.

Brian:

I think you’ve got me confused with someone else, man.

By nitram odarp

October 30, 2008 7:38 PM | Link to this

wayne gotta trade someone for peavy. but i am not sold schafer should go, but if thats a flaw in his game maybe its big enough to consider trading him now. this is the first i have heard of that though. i really dont think the filthies have that good of a rotation and with some good luck the braves can field one that would make them an instant contender for the nl east and i think peavy is where this little thing starts

By Wayne

October 30, 2008 7:39 PM | Link to this

buffalo excellent point about Schafer vs Blanco/Anderson. I could live with a 240-250 first year average, w/ 10 HR’s and top notch “D”.

Anything less and give me Anderson…

By Braveheart

October 30, 2008 7:40 PM | Link to this

The Padres want pitching and the Braves just don’t have it to give. Right now the Braves rotation projects as Jair Jurrjens and a bunch of what if’s. I really don’t think it’s gonna happen. Now that the Phillies are the defending World Champions, I think it sort of puts the Braves 2009 chances of contending into perspective. Can you say wild card?

I don’t know. They’re not going to have Burrell next season and although they won the World Series, what do they have in their rotation outside of Cole Hamels that suggests they are going to be beasts for the next few years? Can they really believe 45 year old Jamie Moyer will continue on like this? Brett Myers is a fat enigmatic headcase. Kendrick? Gimme a break.

Alot of their success this year was their great bullpen and bullpens are notoriously erratic from one season to another. Lidge had a career year but he’s been up and down in his career. They got some great career years out of little guys like Victorino and Werth that they may not get next season.

I see them as a one and done to be honest. It looks to me like a classic case of a team that peaked altogether. With success like a World Series victory comes the hangover and fat head syndrome.

Also, you can’t underrate what Gillick did for that team. The man built winners in 3 towns. Lew’s boy Amaro may have Gillick’s magic touch as well but Gillick is a great GM so I wouldn’t assume that.

I’m not too scared of them next season. I think they’ll regress a bit. I don’t think we’ll come close to truly contending next season. I think the Mets will take the division crown in 2009.

I do agree though that it is amazing that the Braves only have one #3 starter who gives us 200 innings and an assumed .550 record when he starts …… I’d argue though that they actually have two starters since the fifth starter on most teams is nothing more than a 5 inning replacement level starter who eats 150/160 innings and has a .400 record like Morton/JoJo. What they’re missing is the #4 starter who gives us 180 innings and a .500 record; and two aces who give us 450 combined innings and a .625 record. Of course, those are the hardest starters to find.

In any regard, I’m not sure if I see our lack of starters as the reason we may not get Peavy. They wouldn’t want any established starter better than Jair ‘cause said established starter would likely be already getting good money and wouldn’t save them much money. Said established starter also likely wouldn’t have as many club controlled seasons as Jake has. They wouldn’t want any established starter worse than Jair because who the hell trades an ace for an average or replacement level starter? Seems pointless to me.

But I guess what you mean is if Smoltz and Hudson were healthy as the #1 and #2 and Jair was the #3 and they had the chance to get Peavy, then that would mean they were true contenders and they would be able to make themselves World Series favorites by adding Jake to a Smoltz and Hudson rotation. It would then be a relative no brainer to trade Jair for Jake. With Smoltz and Hudson, it make sense to trade Jair for Jake. Without Smoltz and Hudson, it makes no sense to trade Jair for Jake. Without the ability to trade Jair because of the Smoltz/Hudson injuries, Towers is holding a gun to Wren’s head and saying hand over Hanson and Escobar and 3 other loved ones.

Damn, that Hudson injury was so friggin’ devastating ….. at the time, it really got overshadowed because there was just so much going on with Skip dying, Tex getting traded, Smoltz and Glavine out for the season, Soriano nowhere to be found, Chuck James falling off a cliff, Chipper always injured, Francoeur being useless, the one run losses mounting, the Braves finally waiving the white flag for the first time in two decades. It seemed that by the time Hudson got injured we were in such a state of shock that we never had the chance to get shocked and devastated by the loss of Hudson.

By Buffalo NY Braves Fan

October 30, 2008 7:48 PM | Link to this

Wayne,

I agree with that. And I think this year could be a sink or swim year for Schafer. Throw him out there in spring, let him get most of the reps in CF and see how he does. I’m willing to give him a shot because he can’t be worse than Blanco or Anderson offensively, and his D is supposedly better than both. I just don’t think we should give up a kid that everyone was so high on last off-season. We were all singing the praises of Schafer last year, and now that there is a chance of getting Peavy, everyone is ready to ship him off without seeing the kid play.

Pitchers seem to be much harder to grade than position players when it comes to prospects. I’d rather give up a couple pitching prospects and keep the position guys myself.

Lets not have all the kids play, but let him and Hanson play this year.

I think putting Hanson in as the 5th starter this year will do him some good. 5th starter doesn’t have nearly the pressure that the ace does, which should allow him to get his feet wet and see where he stands. The kid sounds dominant and the stats seem to back it up.

By David O'Brien

October 30, 2008 7:51 PM | Link to this

Guys, unless just about everyone who’s seen and evaluated Schafer (including myself, by the way) is completely wrong, this kid is going to be an entirely different level of player than, say, Blanco or Josh Anderson. Entirely.

Schafer, in my opinion, is going to become at least an above-average major league player, and potentially a standout. You watch him play, you understand what the raves are about.

Not saying he doesn’t have things to work on, or that the HGH suspension doesn’t raise at least some small question. I’m just saying he oozes talent, and he played very well in the last couple months at Double-A after returning from the suspension and initially trying too hard to make up for the lost time and the question he knew had arisen.

Gorkys, who I only saw briefly a couple times this spring, probably has even more overall raw talent than Schafer. He’s faster than Schafer (who has good, not great, speed; Gorkys has great speed), but is still developing physically, so it’s tough to tell if Gorksys will hit for much power. He does everything else, though, and that’s more than enough for CF. His arm’s terrific, as well as his range.

Both are going to be long-term major league regulars, I think it’s safe to say. And both have the skills to become very good players by any standards. Gorkys is a year or two behind Schafer in terms of being ready, I would think.

By BravesFanInRockies

October 30, 2008 7:55 PM | Link to this

Braveheart,

Good call on Gillick. Teams he’s in charge of do very well. After he leaves, not so much.

It may take a year or two, but the Phils are vulnerable to a slide if Amaro basically lets Burrell walk and otherwise stands pat.

By Epinephrine

October 30, 2008 7:59 PM | Link to this

To clarify, I wasn’t saying that Schafer is and will be incapable of hitting lefties. I was just saying it something that clearly needs some work. He has struggled with hitting lefties over the last two seasons, including this fall in Winter League. It is a skill that can be acquired, and he has a ton of tools. It is just he probably isn’t ready yet to thrive against Big League lefties.

By TommyP

October 30, 2008 8:27 PM | Link to this

DOB and PhillyFanDan: I probably should’ve added the term “outdoor” to what I said earlier but the point remains the same.

The weather is so nice for so long that there are thousands and thousands of people choosing outdoor activities over sporting events.

Just look at the number of golf courses and the participation in ALTA.

Transplants plus being in the playoffs annually (which bored people ‘til the Series) plus tons of “outdoor” opportunities equals the reason Atlanta gets a bad rap.

Hey, my sister and brother-in-law live in Philly and absolutely hate it.

As I believe Lew said, everybody is leaving Philly (and other northeast cities) for a reason.

By jerry lane

October 30, 2008 8:29 PM | Link to this

ohman has a crappy attitude. to not be interested the the sports top event seems unprofessional. is not the world series the objective of every player even when you start to love the game on the sandlot. speaking of unprofessional- i thought the pp’s looked like left over beer league players. but they should be conrad. for their victory.

By Braveheart

October 30, 2008 8:30 PM | Link to this

Kirkinga What I was taking exception to in your posts above is that you said if we don’t trade Hanson, that means he has to be in the rotation on Opening Day. I just don’t agree with that. If you rush Hanson, you devalue your investment and don’t get the ROI you need during the six club controlled seasons you have him.

Look at Greg Maddux. If he had been allowed to get more seasoning in the minors, maybe he would have been more polished when he first got to the majors.

Maddux went 8-18 with a 5.59 ERA with 186 innings in his first 32 starts through his first full season. In his first year with the Braves, as we all know, he went 20-10 with a 2.36 ERA in 267 innings. Which season would you have rather had? Maybe if the Cubs hadn’t rushed him they would have enjoyed the 2.36 ERA Cy Young season instead of the 5.59 nightmare season.

Of course, maybe the major league seasoning is what he needed to become the Greg Maddux we all later knew…… but maybe he would have become that anyway if they had just been a little more patient with him in the minors in the beginning …… and they wouldn’t have devalued their six years of club control with him on an lost 8-18, 5.59 ERA season.

I’m in no way saying Hanson will be half as good as Maddux but it seems that if Maddux was my investment at the time, I would have rather enjoyed the 107 wins in the six seasons from his second through seventh seasons rather than the 95 wins they got in his 6+ club controlled seasons. They devalued their investment because someone thought he just had to be in the majors at the age of 20.

The Braves will get more value and bang for the buck during Hanson’s 6 club controlled seasons if they are patient and really wait until he is ready to contribute

Something else to think about is service time. If he is on the roster on day one, the mlb service time clock starts ticking and you only get to enjoy 6 seasons worth of him. If you wait until later in the season, you get to enjoy 6+ seasons of club control and 3+ seasons at a league minimum salary instead of just 3 seasons at a league minimum salary.

By TommyP

October 30, 2008 8:30 PM | Link to this

From Rotoworld:

White Sox declined outfielder Ken Griffey Jr.’s $16.5 million option for 2009. Griffey gets a $4 million buyout, with the White Sox paying half and the Reds picking up the rest. Griffey shouldn’t have much trouble landing a starting job this winter, but a multiyear deal is unlikely and he’s looking at a substantial paycut. We wouldn’t be shocked to see him in a Braves uniform next year.

By mbatl

October 30, 2008 8:32 PM | Link to this

Of course, Josh Anderson hit .200/.234/.222 (a .456 OPS - ouch) against left handed pitching in ‘08, so if it’s hitting against LHP we’re worrying about, can’t do much worse. (granted, in very limited opportunities)

In 2008, Schafer hit .196/.306/.299 in 107 ab’s against lefties, at Mississippi;

In 2007, he hit .302/.373/.434 in 106 ab’s against lefties, at Myrtle Beach.

Neither is really a big enough sample to draw conclusions. Like I said earlier, it might indicate that he’s got some learning to do against better LH pitching. But then again, it might indicate nothing but luck (one way or the other).

He’s got a huge work ethic, from all I’ve read, and a ton of talent, so I’m not too worried about it. The question is just, “how soon will he be ready?”

I agree with those that suggest a “learning” Jordan Schafer is likely to be a better option than Anderson/Blanco. I hope he’s in center field on Opening Day.

By TennesseePaul

October 30, 2008 8:34 PM | Link to this

DOB: No. I thought so as well, but I googled it, 3 hours, 22 minutes to each destination. I was suprised to see the time of travel identical. I even re-checked for the sake of this post.

Knoxville to Atlanta: 3hr, 22min 213 miles
Columbia to Atlanta: 3hr, 22min 216 miles

Crazy how equal it is.

By Daybed Wagmoe

October 30, 2008 8:37 PM | Link to this

With Smoltz and Hudson, it make sense to trade Jair for Jake.Braveheart

I’d have to disagree with you there. Even if Smoltz was healthy this year and had a season of something like 16-6 with an era just below 3.00 (the way he was pitching in April, he looked like he was gonna have a huge year), the Braves couldn’t look at him to continue being an ace for much longer. And even if Hudson was still healthy, they’re assured of having him for only another one, maybe two, seasons.

It wouldn’t make sense to trade Jair for Jake if the Braves had Smoltz and Hudson both healthy because Jair will still be affordable and under the Braves’ control after 2010.

By TennesseePaul

October 30, 2008 8:40 PM | Link to this

EFrim: FA is a b!tch is it not? I read someone toss out the Maglio/Verlander deal and that sounded pretty cool. Verlander would be iffy coming off this season, but I think he’d be worth the risk. Plug in Verlander, Camps, Jurrjens and Peavy. I’ll take that rotation. I don’t expect to win it all next year, but with that rotation and then Mags and Chipper in the line up, it’d be one helluva show. Probably get the team into October… maybe. Who knows. Toss in a possible muligan by Glavine and Smoltz…

By Wayne

October 30, 2008 8:51 PM | Link to this

10Paul Are you hearing from anywhere legit that Verlander can be had? I would be shocked to see that. Mags is a different story.

If we end up doing the Peavy deal and Greene is a throw in, and then go after Mags, that would be 11 + 6.5+ 18 = 35.5 million. Add in Ohman for say 3 million, and what would we have left to add any additional starter???

By brent a.

October 30, 2008 8:51 PM | Link to this

Is there anyone who actually lives here in Atlanta who does not believe that professional sports are huge here?

By TommyP

October 30, 2008 8:52 PM | Link to this

TennesseePaul: Can you (or anyone for that matter) explain how we’re going to have enough prospects to acquire Jake Peavy, Magglio Ordonez AND Justin Verlander????????????????

By brent a.

October 30, 2008 8:52 PM | Link to this

Or to re-phrase, is there anyone who does not find that professional sports are hugely popular with local residents?

By bruce

October 30, 2008 8:55 PM | Link to this

Just a thought about Philly fans… I see being there next season wearing braves t-shirt and hat and many will hurl ridicule, here is a response, “World Champs and still no class”…that is a World Class inferiority complex. Or, now see if you can get 12 more in a row

The only upside I have thought of so far of TB losing the series is the Yankee and Sox fans can’t complain that they lost to the champs… gives their whining a bit more light.

By Wayne

October 30, 2008 9:12 PM | Link to this

bruce Besides the fact that I don’t like the Phillies due to our rivarly, otherwise, there are some players on their team and their manager I respect.

The biggest downer about them winning the series is that it just fortifies the “East Coast” is the only real place where baseball is meaningful amongst some of the media.

By McFann O –[brr!]

October 30, 2008 9:16 PM | Link to this

Bruce “World Champs and still no class”

How true.

I just saw on TV where a bunch of Filly Fans got arrested for riots after the game. They showed ‘em jumping over fire, rocking a news truck back and forth…

I mean, really. There is no point to that at all. Ugh…grow up, people.

And I’m not sayin’ this ‘cause I’m jealous of their title. There’s never a time that calls for that kind of behavior. I mean, what the heck does jumping over fire or rocking a news truck back and forth prove?

Haha! And FillyFanDan called me and idiot for asking a harmless, just-to-be-goofy question…

Bruce—

Not a bad upside, either. I think that’s about the only one there is. Be careful when you go to games up there!

By Braveheart

October 30, 2008 9:19 PM | Link to this

It wouldn’t make sense to trade Jair for Jake if the Braves had Smoltz and Hudson both healthy because Jair will still be affordable and under the Braves’ control after 2010.

Daybed Smoltz, Hudson, Peavy and Hanson for the entire 2009 season and an October. Think about that rotation. That’s likely a World Series winning rotation right there.

Smoltz, Hudson, Jair, Hanson? Maybe but your chances aren’t anywhere near as good as they would be with Jake instead of Jair. Club control and bang for the buck means nothing if the guy you’re getting is the difference between being a mere contender and a world champion.

Hanley Ramirez brings more value, club control and bang for the buck than Josh Beckett but do you think the Red Sox really care? Josh Beckett won them a World Series.

By Bobby's Cox

October 30, 2008 9:29 PM | Link to this

DOB,

It was nice to see your response on “that Nelson dude”.

I agree it would be a risk, but for those ‘08 numbers, I’d be willing to take that risk. Based on the past few seasons, I can see how the Braves may be a little risk averse. Maybe if the RF weren’t as risky they could take a shot on him.

It’s always fun to speculate.

By Braveheart

October 30, 2008 9:41 PM | Link to this

Former Atlanta Brave Andruw Jones would like to come back home. “I’ve got one more year in my contract,” said Jones, now playing with the L.A. Dodgers. “Hopefully, I can come back to Atlanta. I would love to finish my career here.” Jones’ first year with the Dodgers ended early. He was moved to the 60-day disabled list on Sept. 13, after hitting .158 with three homers and 76 strikeouts in 209 at-bats. “I’ve been rehabbing, working out again,” he said. “I feel good.” Jones and wife Nicole have continued to make metro Atlanta their home. They’re gearing up for this year’s “Fairway Affair,” the gala they host each year to support Jaden’s Ladder. The organization serves survivors of domestic violence.

http://www.ajc.com/living/content/shared-blogs/ajc/social/

By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)

October 30, 2008 9:45 PM | Link to this

Braveheart, I don’t know whether Pat Burrell will or won’t be with the Phillies next season and neither do you.

I do know he just won the World Series with them, I do know he has played his entire career with Philadelphia, I do know he wants to stay and I do know the Phillies view his presence as critical to their ability to repeat.

That said, he is going to be expensive but not much more than the 14 million he earned this year. The Phillies are going to have first say in whether or not Burrell returns to the city of brotherly love. We will just have to wait and see what transpires.

The Phillies odds of repeating as division champs are high, but repeating as World Champions?

The answer: How many times has it happened in the modern era since 1969.

Oakland in 72-73-74

Cincinnati in 75-76

Yankees in 77-78

Blue Jays in 92-93

Yankees in 98-99-2000.

That’s five teams in 40 years. Odds are 1 in 8 for repeating and 1 in 20 for the trifecta.

By Wayne

October 30, 2008 9:51 PM | Link to this

WW I read the article from the AJC living section (linked to the sports page). If Andruw truly believes he has any chance of getting back to Atlanta to actually play baseball, then he is certainly not a smart man.

I mean, can you believe it??? Did he state how much weight he had lost on his current rehab????

Priceless…

By Daybed Wagmoe

October 30, 2008 9:54 PM | Link to this

Braveheart — Yes, that rotation for all of ‘09 would be a strong possible rotation to win the WS, but there are a couple of wildcards in there. Still playing along with the notion that Smoltz didn’t have injury problems this year, you can’t count on him to be healthy all year while being one year older. Peavy’s elbow issues could manifest this year and sideline him for a while. Hanson could have a start to his career similar to Smoltz, Glavine or Maddux. On paper it looks like a great rotation, but many thought that a rotation of Smoltz, Hudson, Glavine, Hampton and Jurrjens for ‘08 could lead the team to a World Series.

In the scenario you’re proposing, you’d have Smoltz, Hudson, Peavy, and Hanson in 09. I’m not so sure about what 2010 and after would look like, but I’d be a lot more confident about 2010 and after if the rotation had both Jurrjens and Hanson in it once Smoltz and Hudson are gone.

By McFann O –[brr!]

October 30, 2008 9:55 PM | Link to this

Oakland in 72-73-74

Was that the “Big Green Machine”?

Night, all.

By brian

October 30, 2008 9:56 PM | Link to this

If Griffey is willing to take a short contract and of course at a big pay cut, the Braves should consider Griffey for LF maybe platooning him some with Diaz or with the Rangers minor league OF should they go that way.

By brian

October 30, 2008 9:56 PM | Link to this

If Griffey is willing to take a short contract and of course at a big pay cut, the Braves should consider Griffey for LF maybe platooning him some with Diaz or with the Rangers minor league OF should they go that way.

By Wayne

October 30, 2008 10:04 PM | Link to this

McFann They were affectionately referred to as “The Swinging A’s”

brian Unless we can pull the trigger on someone better, then I would love to have Junior for 1 year at a reasonable price.

Besides, I do not expect the Braves to make it to October next year, unless many things fall into place.

By Salty Dawg

October 30, 2008 10:11 PM | Link to this

Is there anyone who actually lives here in Atlanta who does not believe that professional sports are huge here?

Me. The difference between Atlanta and some of the more dedicated pro sports cities is that fans in those cities are fanatical whether the teams win or lose. Once the Braves are out of contention (and often when they are still in contention) attendance is sparse as most “fans” lose interest. Same case with the Falcons and lets not forget the Hawks. Chicago, New York, Philly, etc. are all cities where the fans show up not just because the teams are winning, but because they are fans. It makes me sick to go to a Braves or Falcons game and have to listen to the opponent’s fans out cheering the home team fans. Go to a UGA game and see what fan support is all about.

By Lew

October 30, 2008 10:14 PM | Link to this

Are y’all seriously surprised that Burnett and Lowe will go for $16 mil per season? Ted Freaking Lilly went for $15 mil two years ago. Told you $40 mil just doesn’t go as far as it used to. Now you see why I don’t think Ordonez is a viable acquisition if we’re going to pick up two top rotation pitchers. You just can’t do it on our budget-not to mention what we’d have to trade..

By Salty Dawg

October 30, 2008 10:16 PM | Link to this

If Griffey is willing to take a short contract and of course at a big pay cut, the Braves should consider Griffey for LF maybe platooning him some with Diaz or with the Rangers minor league OF should they go that way.

The Braves don’t need another stop gap outfielder, especially not an aging one on the tail end of his career. They need a reliable, long-term player that can provide power. The only logical reason to sign a one year player is as a bridge to a minor league prospect or to help with a playoff push. I like Jr as much as the next fan, but the time for him to wear a Braves uni has passed.

By BosnianBaller

October 30, 2008 10:17 PM | Link to this

I know the Braves have way more important positions to fill,but what about adding Chad Cordero to the bullpen.He is a FA and would give us a solid arm out of the pen if he can stay healthy.

By Salty Dawg

October 30, 2008 10:21 PM | Link to this

If Andruw truly believes he has any chance of getting back to Atlanta to actually play baseball, then he is certainly not a smart man.

I mean, can you believe it??? Did he state how much weight he had lost on his current rehab????

In his picture he actually looked pretty lean. My guess is that he finally realized he was going to have to listen to reason if he wants to get his career back on track. I don’t think he will ever have another 40+ homer season, but it’s not unrealistic to think he can fix his swing and be an above average OF again.

By Jeff R

October 30, 2008 10:22 PM | Link to this

I wouldn’t rush Hanson to the majors. Give the guy a chance to gain more experience in the minors. Isn’t he slated to start the ‘09 season at Mississippi? Why rush him along?

If Wren can lock down Peavy, he’s then committed to finding another soild arm to add to the rotation. So, again, if all goes well, 1-3 in the rotation will be tight. 4-5 are up for grabs, but I wouldn’t be surprised to see Hampton back and Morton, provided he’s not dealt, rounding out the rotation. Hudson may rehab faster than anticipated and be back by midsummer. Yet another option if 4-5 starters aren’t delivering. Not at all bad for ‘09.

Rather give the top prospects time to develop; that includes Schafer. I think Anderson and Blanco can capably handle duties in CF until ‘10.

By Brian

October 30, 2008 10:26 PM | Link to this

Braveheart- Andruw is almost a sad story, isn’t he? I don’t know anyone who doesn’t like him, but something major would have to happen for him to be back. The only way I see it happening is if we get a major bat for LF and/or trade away Schafer,Anderson, and maybe Blanco, because obviously Hernandez is a few yrs away. Kotsay might even be over Andruw comimg back.

By Salty Dawg

October 30, 2008 10:35 PM | Link to this

DOB- You may have already discussed this, but from what you have heard is there any thought within the org that Shafer might be ready to move up in the Spring?

By Braveheart

October 30, 2008 10:38 PM | Link to this

Chicago, New York, Philly, etc. are all cities where the fans show up not just because the teams are winning, but because they are fans.

Not really true. Yankees didn’t really draw until 1996. Steinbrenner always threatened to leave the South Bronx because it was a common belief that they would never be able to average more than 30,000 fans a game in that neighborhood. Attendance at Shea drops when they stink. Attendance at MSG ain’t what it was for the Knicks in the Ewing years. St. Johns can’t sell out MSG like they did in the Chris Mullin years. When the Giants and Jets stink, it is sold out but you see as many Cowboys or Steelers fans in Giants Stadium as Giants and Jets fans. Trust me on that. It was horrible in the 90s Dan Reeves years to listen to the freaking “Moooooooooooooose” thing in Giants Stadium whenever Moose Johnston did anything.

By brent a.

October 30, 2008 11:03 PM | Link to this

Salty Dawg

You focused your answer strictly on the local sports teams. There are many, many more professional sports teams, than just those that are Atlanta based.

To go along with what Braveheart said, professional sports are wildly popular in Atlanta. This is a major city in a sports-crazed country.

It’s just that our local sports teams are not over-all, wildly popular with the local populace.

By TennesseePaul

October 30, 2008 11:07 PM | Link to this

There is an unspecified amount of cashing coming into the payroll. Or so we’ve been told. Of course, that unspecified amount could be a negative number. Real sly of them to do it that way…

Any way, just got off the phone with Towers and Drombowski. They seem to agree that it could be done with Khalil going to Detroit along with a pitcher (Morton Dave was hinting at). San Diego was interested in a few high grade prospects, but I think I got him down to a few second level guys Yunel, and a bag of balls. At any rate the Braves would get Peavy and Mags as well as Verlander. Oh yeah, they also said McCann had to sport the beard all season. Said he looked to good in it to not keep it.

By Saltywoody

October 30, 2008 11:09 PM | Link to this

MUSIC QUESTION for everyone.

I’ve gotten really into the Black Keys in the last few months…mostly stuff off Rubber Factory and earlier tunes.

Question is does anyone know other bands that are similar stylistically? AKA sort of minimalistic, heavy, raw blues. Just can’t get enough of it.

And, on the entirely other end of the spectrum, I’ve also been listening to a lot of Jose Gonzalez and Nick Drake to balance it out. So recommendations on the acoustic/folksy side of things are welcomed as well.

Figured this would be a good place to ask.

By justdoit

October 30, 2008 11:12 PM | Link to this

how about (1) trade for Peavy -(2)trade for Josh Willingham & Scott Olsen - (3)Sign Dunn or Burell (4) sign Penny. thats what? 3 pitchers and 2 outfielders for under 40m?something like 35m? play francour in center and if he continues his slump we could still have JS ready in the minors if we dont trade him and Josh in right and that would also leave plenty of money for smoltz and hampton. 1 - Peavy 2 - Jair 3 - Penny 4 - Hampton 5 - Olsen and would be awesome to have smoltz healthy back in that rotation 1 - eco 2 - kelly 3 - chipper 4 - FA 5 - mac 6 - willingham 7 - kotch 8 - frechy pretty good looking lineup in my eyes. thoughts?

By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)

October 30, 2008 11:14 PM | Link to this

Coco Crisp?

The cereal man plays all three OF spots, can lead off, is younger than Mark Kotsay without the back issues, switch hits and his defense ain’t bad either.

He is affordable at 5.75 million for 2009. His 2010 contract is for 8 million with a 0.5M buyout.

His 162 game avg. : 605 at bats, 90 runs, 12 HR’s, 65 RBI, 26 stolen bases, .280 BA and .331 OBP.

If the Red Sox have an interest in bringing Kotsay back for the 2009 season , they just might put Crisp on the trade table. That’s if, might and maybe. But worth looking into.

By Brian

October 30, 2008 11:19 PM | Link to this

justdoit- Put down the pipe! Besides, it’s Thursday night, at least hold off your addiction for the weekend!

By brian

October 30, 2008 11:20 PM | Link to this

Salty - we need a bat for a 1-2 year stopgap until Schafer, Hernandez, and Heyward are ready especially if one of the first two are not dealt. As far as a playoff push next year, I believe Wren, Cox, etc believe that the Braves will make a playoff push next year. Otherwise why try to add 2 arms to the starting rotation versus letting the youngsters start. The reason he wants 2 starters such as Peavy and Lowe is that he believes with 2 starters and a bat in LF the Braves will be serious contenders NEXT YEAR

By brian

October 30, 2008 11:20 PM | Link to this

Salty - we need a bat for a 1-2 year stopgap until Schafer, Hernandez, and Heyward are ready especially if one of the first two are not dealt. As far as a playoff push next year, I believe Wren, Cox, etc believe that the Braves will make a playoff push next year. Otherwise why try to add 2 arms to the starting rotation versus letting the youngsters start. The reason he wants 2 starters such as Peavy and Lowe is that he believes with 2 starters and a bat in LF the Braves will be serious contenders NEXT YEAR

By David O'Brien

October 30, 2008 11:33 PM | Link to this

Saltywoody, if you’re heavy into the Black Keys these days (and good for you, because they do bring it hard and true), I assume you’ve got their Thickfreakness and The Big Come Up CDs, and for even more straight-ahead blues, their Chulahoma CD, which is their cover versions of songs by the great Junior Kimbrough. (You said you had Rubber Factory, so I needn’t recommend that. If you don’t have those others, I’d strongly recommend them).

For bands that sound something like the Keys, try the Soledad Brothers and either of Jack White’s bands, the White Stripes and the Raconteurs.

And to go back a lot further, check into Cream’s classic stuff, and of course Hendrix and Led Zep (but I’m assuming you’ve already got plenty of that).

And if you like Nick Drake and Jose Gonzalez, if you dig him try anything by Iron & Wine (The Creek Drank The Cradle and Our Endless Numbered Days are a great CDs but my favorite might be the one Iron & Wine did with Calexico, In The Reins.

You should also try Elliott Smith (Figure 8, Either/Or, XO are all great) and anything by Jeff Buckley. Also, a couple of newer bands have that same sort of vibe, Fleet Foxes and Bon Iver. Both released their debuts in the past year, both excellent.

By mbatl

October 30, 2008 11:40 PM | Link to this

Another strategy (not likely, but just for consideration):

Offer CC Sabathia 5/$120 mil (yes, that’s $24 mil per year);

trade a couple of mid-level guys (select 2 or 3 from Locke, Osuna, Medlen, Hicks, etc - hopefully keeping Rorhbough out of the deal) for Magglio Ordonez (that’s $16 mil for 3 years);

and then trade something like Flowers and Prado to FL for Scott Olsen (average for ‘09-‘11, maybe $5 mil/year?). (that’s probably too much to give, btw)

Don’t sign Glavine. Use the $5 mil or so saved on the Tex trade to sign Hampton for one year, with a nice option based on innings pitched.

You’ve spent $45 mil per year (cancelling the Tex savings vs. the Hampton signing); within budget, solved the pitching and left field problems. And have all the untouchables on board.

Rotation: Sabathia, Jurjenns, Olsen, Hampton and then Campillo/Morton/Hanson (with Redmon/Marek/Reyes/Bennet still in tow, and Hudson coming back late ‘09 or 2010);

Lineup: Schafer, KJ, CJ, Maggs, McCann, Escobar, Kotchman, Frenchy

‘Pen: Gonzo, Soriano, Smotlz, Moylan, Acosta, fill-in-the-rest…

Bench: well, don’t know ‘bout that - whoever is left!

I know it’s BS, but just thinking out loud about life without a Jake Peavy deal.

By David O'Brien

October 30, 2008 11:41 PM | Link to this

Lew, I also find it a bit puzzling that so many people seem surprised at the going rate for the few proven free-agent pitchers that are out there. It’s a small pool, so of course the price is higher than it might be if there were a dozen of them instead of a handful.

But beyond that, the salary escalation of the past couple years shows no sign of slowing, after that brief period we had a few years back of fiscal sanity. With baseball revenues at all-time highs the past couple years, and everyone aware of that, contracts keep getting handed out.

I know some here predicted recently that the economy would have a direct effect on baseball. Well, maybe it will at the box office next year, but I’m afraid it’s not going to have any effect whatsoever on the contracts that are handed out to free agents this winter — guaranteed contracts, I might add.

By Matt the Brave

October 31, 2008 12:02 AM | Link to this

DOB: I know that the Braves won’t make an official statement about Andruw wanting to come back to the Braves, but do you think that it would be a possibility if the Dodgers were to pay most of his salary? The only thing that I worry about is that his bat speed has slowed greatly over the last two years, and I think that he would be better suited to play left field at this point…any ideas?

Also, I saw that Renteria is going to be allowed to walk. Do you think that this might make an impact on the Braves giving up a middle infielder for a trade for a proven pitcher?

Thanks!

By Saltywoody

October 31, 2008 12:08 AM | Link to this

DOB

Thanks much for the recommendations. I figured you’d have a myriad of them.

I’ve got all three Keys albums you mentioned. Rubber Factory is a little more melodic to my ears and stands out among the others, though Thickfreakness and Come Up both have their standout tunes, as well.

And funny you mention Junior Kimbrough, as I was just reading about him and his influence on Auerbach (which is obvious once you listen to both) and making a note to go out and buy some of his stuff (want to see if I can get it as a used store, as opposed to paying full whack on itunes). Near as I can tell, Sad Days, Lonely Nights and All Night Long appear to be the must haves, though I’m open for recommendations.

I already listen to much of the White Stripes stuff, though I’ll need to check out the Rancoteurs since I haven’t listened to them much. And I’ll definitely be looking at the others, as well.

For whatever reason, Elliot Smith doesn’t quite float my boat…but I’ll be sure to look into Buckley and Iron & Wine.

You know, it’s weird. I’ve been playing guitar for about ten years now and have always tried to expand my musical ear and listen to stuff a little out of my talent and tastes, I guess to keep from getting musically claustrophobic.

But, maybe three months ago, something clicked in me and I’ve gone straight back to very minimalistic, almost plain rock and blues. Not necessarily really complicated stuff. But there’s something about the bare, grating nature of a lot of these guys’ voices and guitars that I can’t get enough of. Something about their simplicity is speaking so much more to me these days. (I readily admit that Nick Drake seems to be the anomaly here, though his orchestral songwriting has something that’s speaking to me too).

Anyway, I digress.

Thanks for the advice. This all should keep me busy for a while.

By rainman34

October 31, 2008 12:18 AM | Link to this

I would love to see us go after juan rivera for left field maybe 6 mill a year then go hard after aj and peavy. i like greens power so adding esco wouldnt kill me. i think esco, grokey, joe joe, brandon jones and flowers should do it. i hate to lose flowers but to get jake and not lose any of our top guys would be a great move.

By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)

October 31, 2008 12:20 AM | Link to this

Just one day after the WS is in the books and the hot stove league is off and running. the Marlins/Royals trade is already done with more to follow.

Three Braves have declared free agency. Ohman, Norton and Taverez. I say yea on the first two and nay on the last name unless he would accept a minor league deal.

By N Nine

October 31, 2008 12:20 AM | Link to this

Why do people bring up Rent-aria every other day? Detroit gave 3 million dollars for him to leave. I don’t want to say the guy is done but come on, its time to move on…

The opt out clause players add to contracts are brilliant for the players. Giving the player two chances to head into FA with solid numbers. A.J. Burnett just opted out coming off a good year. Its nice for the player and sometimes inconvenient for the team. If A.J. sucked this year he would have stayed but now he wants more years and dollars. Wonder if Boras invented that idea…wouldn’t surprise me at all.

Coach..Coco? Are you Loco? Why TRADE for a bad player? Heck, Langerhans is available!

By uga-brave

October 31, 2008 12:22 AM | Link to this

DOB,

sorry i have not pulled my weight lately.

braveheart said it was not the same without uga-brave’s overnight rants and scoots opening 6 A.M. post.

gotta admit after the dawgs sanded LSU i ended up in winston salem.

started the day at locos in buckhead, went and saw my wife at the penn st. bar in tocco hills. they beat ohio state.

next thing i know i am sitting next to J.D. at hooters.

big john and i sat there for almost a day and half.

of course if you know anything about big john, he still thinks HOOTY AND THE BLOWFISH are the best band in america.

i at least soberered up enough to figure out i was out of my element.

as i was standing on i-85 yesterday hitchiking, i was lucky enough to encounter KNOWSHON’S relatives, who were coming down from new jersey.

they were on their way of course to jacksonville.

been a long week.

go dawgs. go s&p 500.

my advice to all that read this story is avoid john daly.

By Kentavo

October 31, 2008 12:32 AM | Link to this

Hey Saltywoody, if you’re looking for some minimalist rock, you could try:

1. Jonathan Richman and the Modern Lovers
2. Local H
3. and if you like White Stripes, The Raconteurs are almost better (but not quite)

By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)

October 31, 2008 12:35 AM | Link to this

Um, did N Nine skip the entire 2008 season?

Coco Crisp actually had a better overall season than Mark Kotsay did. I rest my case. Frank Wren can mail me my check.

There has been a Wal Mart sighting!

Aaron Rowand was spotted in the womens lingerie section wearing a kick me t-shirt and spank me underwear.

By Saltywoody

October 31, 2008 12:53 AM | Link to this

Kentavo-

Appreciate it, man. I was just checking out the Raconteurs and like ‘em a lot.

Listened to Local H and Jonathan Richman, too, and they’re both pretty cool.

Funny, though, that the Stripes and the Keys both still seem to top a lot of others. Maybe a testament to their awesomeness. But they’re just a little harder than some of the others mentioned. Harder not in a Metallica sense, but just a little more raw is the best way I can describe it. Guess I’m just partial to Auerbach’s vocals and White’s guitar.

By Saltywoody

October 31, 2008 12:55 AM | Link to this

I take that back, Local H is pretty gruff.

They’ve got a little Nirvana thing going on.

By N Nine

October 31, 2008 1:02 AM | Link to this

Coach

You crack me up! You do. Your right Coco is the power OF that Wren should be looking for. This guy will fit in between Chipper and McCann just fine. .283 with 7HR..SOLID. And yes, This was his “rebound” year. You changed my mind.

He did have 8 points higher in BA and pounded ONE more HR than our friend Kotzi..

sorry i have not pulled my weight lately Uga-Brave

Has been an off week for you. No stock talks? We’ll forgive you and we won’t expect too much from you next week, when/IF UGA finishes off Gators again…

By uga-brave

October 31, 2008 1:26 AM | Link to this

N Nine,

you and N8 have very simmilar monikers.

hint, coach does not really crack anyone up.

think the yankees coach, in the bad news bears.

think the coach in the bad coach uniform.

think about him in those tight bike coaching shorts.

By uga-brave

October 31, 2008 1:49 AM | Link to this

as much as i somehow respect coach’s blogs

he always wanted greg norton. he was right greg norton is a great pinch hitter.

cant help but thinking the coach looks like VIC MORROW, in the bad news bears.

he is the coach of the yankees in that great movie.

By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)

October 31, 2008 2:00 AM | Link to this

Coco Crisp is no slugger. He is the ideal fourth outfielder/spot starter who can lead off and help the Braves with his versatility much like Omar Infante did this year.

I hate those bike shorts. Nothing but the full uni and spikes for this old goat. Think Walter Matthau although I don’t drink anymore but still cuss like a drunk sailor!

By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)

October 31, 2008 2:35 AM | Link to this

Well, here it is. An in your face, no holds barred look at the state of the Atlanta Braves starting pitching. The weak stomached should look away. No bull, no opinion, just an ugly reality check.

Jair Jurrjens: 2nd year pitcher, solid young righty with great potential. Has an idea of what he is doing and is very poised on the mound.

Jorge Campillo: 30 year old rookie recycled from the Mexican league. Great control, soft stuff with no velocity. Has trouble fooling big league hitters with his junk.

Jo-Jo Reyes: the young lefty has a live arm. Is inconsistent, wild and has problems with his control. A real head case.

Mike Hampton: Shocked the baseball world by making 13 starts and pitching well. He is a pending free agent who’s future is an unknown.

Charlie Morton: Potential dominant starter. But lacks the mental toughness needed to match his talent. The young right hander has much to prove.

Tom Glavine: Hall of Fame lefty lefty coming off elbow surgery. Pending free agent. His future is uncertain.

John Smoltz: Hall of Fame right hander coming off shoulder surgery. Pending free agent. It’s unknown if and when he will pitch again.

Tim Hudson: Staff ace recovering from T.J surgery. Is expected to return in August of 2009. Won’t be at full speed until 2010.

Chuck James: Shoulder surgery, out indefinitely, return to form is an unknown.

Jeff Bennett: Potential fifth starter. More suited to the bullpen or spot starting.

Anthony Lerew: Made his return from T.J surgery, pitched in the minors and is expected to pitch in spring training.

James Parr: Spot starter with soft stuff. Fifth starter or long reliever at best.

Tommy Hansen: Great talent, Ideal pitchers frame. Still in AA. dominating in the AFL which is considered a hitters league. Will get a long look in spring training.

By uga-brave

October 31, 2008 2:35 AM | Link to this

good comeback coach.

i still love the coach. you are a great blogger.

tell me this, what is

the value of our great right fielder?

if he panics and has a slow start next year what happens?

we traded away laroche when he was arb eligible.

that after a 30 90 rbi season.

so if the french hits 25 90 do we offer him arbitration?

we traded laroche after a nice season.

big decisions right?

cant trade the golden boy, but we traded laroche with better numbers.

time to think the front offfice is committed to francoeur, either he adds up or he makes some in this franchise look like the idiots that run the atlanta spirit.

By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)

October 31, 2008 3:35 AM | Link to this

OK UGA-Brave. I just spent almost half an hour digging through the blogs to find this post from September , now I’m behind on my check list and paper work.

September 26, 2008 4:12 AM | Link to this

Concerning Jeff Francoeur, I’m gonna be brutally honest.

He is a great athlete, works hard and has the right attitude as long as his foot isn’t in his mouth. His arm is probably the best in the N.L. among all right fielders. His natural talent makes Jeff a phenom in every sense of the word.

Now for the flip side.

The youngster relies far to much on his athleticism. He has little idea of the strike zone and almost no discipline at the plate except when runners are on base and the bases loaded thing has fried Francoeur mentally.

His ceiling is right around an OPS of .800, which is very pedestrian for an outfielder. Jeff’s range is limited as he does not run well because of his ankle. He doesn’t have one damn clue how to read a pitcher in order to successfully steal second base.

The metal aspect of the game has proved to be beyond his reach thus far. Jeff could benefit from watching a lot more game tape. Opposing pitchers have him figured out and have learned to exploit his lack of knowledge of the strike zone.

I still have to question his eye sight. An optometrist said it’s fine, but his adding the toe tap as a timing mechanism has me wondering otherwise.

Francouer’s 4/1 strike out/walk ratio is horrible and Frenchy’s power numbers are almost as bad.

In 2006, he had 59 extra base hits in 651 at bats.

Again, in 2007 59 extra base hits in 642 at bats.

So far in 2008, 45 extra base hits in 585 at bats.

So , I have come to the conclusion, if he isn’t traded in the off season and performs roughly the same in 2009, Francouer’s career as a Brave will likely end after next year.

By Efrim

October 31, 2008 6:48 AM | Link to this

I am not suprised to see that AJ Burnett and Derek Lowe want that money. Not at all.

But I will be suprised to see Frank Wren offer that kind of contract to a free agent pitcher. I really will be.

Since our needs are two starting pitchers, and a corner OF, and Frank Wren has already said that he won’t trade the elite group of prospects, the Braves are most likely going to have to fill one of those starting pitching voids with a free agent. So for arguments sake, lets say Wren trades for Peavy and signs Oliver Perez for 15 a year. That’s 26 million eaten up for next season. But we do have our 2 starters and still have 14 million for a corner OF. Still not sold that the Braves will go sign Will Ohman. I see a trade for a lefty reliever.

By Eware

October 31, 2008 7:32 AM | Link to this

Hey DOB, are you hearing anything about the Braves negotiating a contract with Greg Norton? I’d hate to see him leave…

By Dadgum

October 31, 2008 9:08 AM | Link to this

The more I think about Griffey the more it makes sense to try and sign him. His 16 mil option was not picked up by Chicago meaning basically that he will get far less on the open market given his age and numbers. He will give you 20+ homers and about a .250-.275 BA next year. More importantly it appears he is pretty durable now as he only missed about 20 games at 38 years old. My guess is that he will get about 8 mil next year from somebody. Having Griffey play LF, Shafer CF, and Francouer RF ain’t too bad. Just a thought.

Rock on……remembering Steppenwolf. Hey Lawdy Momma.

By Matt the Brave

October 31, 2008 9:12 AM | Link to this

Nine, I bring up Renteria because he’s a darn good NL hitter. Yes, Detroit cut him, but it was the same reason why the Red Sox were so ready to get rid of him. He’s only 33, and he would make a pretty darn good second baseman still. Also, his average and his spark in the clubhouse would help with this young team. Don’t shoot down an idea because you are too dim to look deeper than just Detroit let him go.

By Shaun

October 31, 2008 9:22 AM | Link to this

Opposing pitchers have him figured out and have learned to exploit his lack of knowledge of the strike zone.

His on-base has never been above .338 in a season and his BB rate has never been above 6.1 percent of his plate appearances. Over the last three years his walk rate is 10th worst in the majors. Seems pitchers have always exploited his lack of discipline.

By DAP

October 31, 2008 9:25 AM | Link to this

MLB trade rumors says that the padres will most likely pick up brian giles’ $9mil option. maybe the braves could get him in a deal for peavy?

giles would have to waive his no trade, but if he would, we would have a very good on base guy for 2009 to bat 2nd in front of chipper. if we cant get a guy who will hit 30 homers, a guy who will get on base at a .400 clip will be a nice alternative.

By Random

October 31, 2008 9:27 AM | Link to this

Wayne: “Does anybody know what happened to Bannister in KC and Hill in Chicago this past year? They had breakthrough seasons in ‘07, but flopped this year.”

Check out Joe Posnanski’s blog for info on Bannister — he’s been following him closely this season.

Here’s a small excerpt:

“Banny has tried everything he can think to try. Readers here know how intensely he breaks down the statistics. He had a fine year in 2007, but his study of the numbers told him that, yes, he was lucky. So through this rough year, he has concluded at different times that he needs to: (1) Strike out more batters; (2) Get more ground balls; (3) Conceal the ball better pitching out of the stretch; (4) Develop his two-seam fastball; (5) Slow down his curve; (6) Lower his arm angle; (7) Be more unpredictable; (8) Change his change-up; (9) Throw higher in the zone; (10) Throw down in the zone more; (11) Take confidence from the good things; (12) Try not to think about the good things; (13) Change lots and lots of other stuff.”

By Lew

October 31, 2008 9:30 AM | Link to this

Efrim-I’m troubled about the cost of Peavy and another (possibly Free Agent pitcher)-both in terms of $$$$ and kids we give up. Maybe the better road to travel would be to forget Peavy (yes, I can hear the hue and cry and I know all the arguments and his election to Studhhood, but….), sign Lowe or Burnett (money about the same-maybe a bit more for 09 over JP) and do a deal with the Marlins for Olsen and possibly Willingham. That way we have improved the rotation for about $16 mil (plus what ever Olsen costs in arbitration) and a lot less loss of personnel than would be the case if we traded for Peavy. It should also leave enough for signing Ohman and Norton.

I’m thinking that a rotation of Burnett/Lowe, Jurrjens, Olsen, Hampton, and Morton/Hanson with Campillo/Bennett/Carlyle on deck as spot starters/long relievers would work pretty well. Maybe this would not be the optimum rotation, but like Braveheart said yesterday, the loss of Hudson was devastating and this would be quite an improvement-especially if we could get some help from Smoltz and/or Glavine as well.

Coach-Glad to hear your stance on those Bike shorts. I was getting a picture of you like the Coach character on Mad TV. That was scary. I can live with the Walter Matthau look. It doesn’t freak out the imagination quite as badly.

By Shaun

October 31, 2008 9:32 AM | Link to this

Dadgum, Griffey should not play against lefty pitchers and at this point in his career he’s slightly above a league average hitter, which isn’t good for a corner outfielder.

He wouldn’t be a bad option as a lefty-hitting part of a corner outfield platoon. But I don’t know about $8 million.

By Lew

October 31, 2008 9:40 AM | Link to this

Shaun-I’ve always wondered about that statement myself-no matter who made it. If the pitchers in the NL took over two and a half years to figure out Frenchy was a free swinger with little plate discipline then they were dumb as bags of rocks. I think that was something we all were aware of before Sports Illustrated ever debuted him as a Cover Model.

Coach-If all he’d seen was an Optometrist, I’d be skeptical, too. I would bet you anything he saw an Opthalmologist. If not, someone in the Braves’ organization needs to learn the difference. Maybe it’s the same person who keeps insisting on the cheap, less definitive MRI’s.

By Efrim

October 31, 2008 9:44 AM | Link to this

Dadgum

I have to disagree on Junior. I would not be okay with him playing LF for the Braves next season. At least not in a full time role. He hit 272/379/462 against righties last year. So there may be some use for him playing LF against righties, although considering his age and injury history, I would much rather look for other options. Even if it means making a trade for someone like Josh Willingham.

By Efrim

October 31, 2008 9:52 AM | Link to this

Lew

sign Lowe or Burnett (money about the same-maybe a bit more for 09 over JP) and do a deal with the Marlins for Olsen and possibly Willingham. That way we have improved the rotation for about $16 mil (plus what ever Olsen costs in arbitration) and a lot less loss of personnel than would be the case if we traded for Peavy.

Agree 100%. Although I am not sure if we can nab Willingham AND Olsen in the same trade. That might get pricey in terms of prospects. I like Olsen though. So maybe grab Olsen and go after a different corner OF bat. Or maybe grab Willingham and go after a different young starter type.

I know Edwin Jackson’s stats don’t look great, but I bet you he would do a lot better moving over from the AL East to the NL East. Probably miss more bats, maybe get luckier. Could be a real good pickup.

By Wes

October 31, 2008 10:00 AM | Link to this

Hey DOB, I keep reading that Josh Willingham would be out there. The kid’s from Florence Alabama, has to be a Braves fan as a kid, are they considering him?

By Shaun

October 31, 2008 10:02 AM | Link to this

Lew, yes, Francoeur has been a pretty easy out since he came up, pitchers didn’t “just figure him out.” But no one noticed that he was an easy out before this season because things like RBI and batting average are generally overvalued.

Regarding his eye-sight, his walk rate as the same in 2008 as it was in 2007, and in both years his walk rates were higher than his career walk rate. His strikeout rate in 2008 was lower than it’s been in any season. Given that info, I have a hard time believing his eyesight was more of a problem in 2008.

His walk and K rates were a problem in 2008, I’m not denying that. But they weren’t any more a problem in 2008 as they were in his previous seasons. Again, he’s always been undisciplined. In fact he was slightly more disciplined in 2008 than he’s ever been.

By McFann O –[brr!]

October 31, 2008 10:02 AM | Link to this

Wayne—

Ah: The Swinging A’s!

Lew Ted Freaking Lilly went for $15 mil two years ago.

“Ted Freaking Lilly”…Good one. Dang, but he bugs me!

By Random

October 31, 2008 10:07 AM | Link to this

nolie: “I see that Tazawa was not drafted by a Japanese club, so he should be free to sign with an American club if I understand it right”

That’s also my understanding — if he’d been drafted and entered the NPB, it’d’ve been nine years before he could become a free agent.

Here’s a Boston Herald article on Tazawa’s non-selection.

Kind of weird — as someone on Baseball Musings put it: “Imagine a US high school star asking not to be drafted by major league teams so he could sign with one as a free agent!”

By Efrim

October 31, 2008 10:08 AM | Link to this

Rosenthal has a new article up:

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8741126/Baseball-needs-to-work-on-its-calendar?CMP=OTC-K9B140813162&ATT=49

If the Padres want 5 players back for Jake Peavy, why in the world would you go to the Cubs? They are about 3 players short of offering a reasonable package. Vitters, Pie, ……, ……., and …… And if they want to trade him within their division, go right ahead. They are even thinking of trying to get the Yankees involved.

But of course, as so many Padres fans suggest, “we don’t have to trade him”. Right. Sure you don’t. Wren should stand firm and wait for Towers/Depodesta/Alderson to lower their demands.

By McFann O –[brr!]

October 31, 2008 10:27 AM | Link to this

Efrim—

Thanks for the Rosenthal article. Int’resting stuff.

And how ‘bout this line: Commissioner Bud Selig has indicated a willingness to scale back to 154 games, but the owners do not want to lose any regular-season revenue.

Uh-huh. Of course! It’s all about the money…the doggone money!

I wouldn’t be opposed to 154 games (wouldn’t be opposed to ditching the WBC, either). Then they wouldn’t have to end the playoffs so freaking close to November.

Also I wouldn’t be opposed to shortening ST a little—that would be the best thing IMHO…

By Steve from OH

October 31, 2008 10:37 AM | Link to this

Here’s a little Tim Kurkjian on “will Peavy be traded?”:

*By all accounts, yes. The Padres are really bad right now; they need to do a four-for-one trade and attempt to move forward. Plus, getting rid of Peavy’s huge contract will be important in the team’s progress. Peavy has great stuff and loves to compete, but he is such a maximum-effort guy that he rarely throws more than seven innings (no complete games in his Cy Young season in 2007) and often reaches 100 pitches in the fifth inning.

Peavy has a no-trade clause. He can choose where he wants to go. The Cardinals are an option, but they haven’t shown significant interest. The Braves are an option, but they don’t appear willing to trade their best young players. The Astros are an option, but there’s a question about how much young talent they have available in trade. One way or another, Peavy will go.*

Efrim:

Totally agree that Wren needs to hold his ground. An offer of our second-tier guys might be the best one he gets.

By cooper

October 31, 2008 10:41 AM | Link to this

The Braves likely have $45mm to spend and if they can get a little goose to payroll to cover raises etc they can easily do the following:

Trade for Peavy & Greene (you will have to take him to minimize body count you have to give up for Peavy)

17.5mm for Peavy & Greene 15 mm for Burnett or Lowe (you can back load the deal with Burnett given his age so 09 salary could come in at 13-14) 10mm for Bradley LF (three year deal again you can back load it a bit) 4mm (Hampton - one year deal with incentive to 8mm) 3mm (Ohman for a two year deal)

49.5 million (we are over but you can factor in Hudson’s insurance to cover his salary which makes drifting past 45mm less painful).

Ohman at 3mm probably doesn’t work though I like the guy.

Hampton could get more on the open market so we may have to start at 5MM with incentives to 8-10mm

Peavy Burnett JJ Hampton Camp, Hanson, Glavine

Morton & JOJO likely get traded.

Great rotation and a power switch hitting LF who will be more spry in 09 since he is another year removed from his knee surgery.

By David O'Brien

October 31, 2008 10:47 AM | Link to this

MLB trade rumors says that the padres will most likely pick up brian giles’ $9mil option. maybe the braves could get him in a deal for peavy?

giles would have to waive his no tradeDAP

Keep in mind, he vetoed a trade to Boston last year when the Red Sox were in the middle of a pennant race.

Staying put in San Diego with his family appears to be first and foremost on his list of priorities.

By Efrim

October 31, 2008 10:51 AM | Link to this

Cooper

(we are over but you can factor in Hudson’s insurance to cover his salary which makes drifting past 45mm less painful).

I thought that the Braves would have to figure that out before the season? I am pretty sure they want Tim Hudson to pitch if at all possible.

By Lew

October 31, 2008 10:51 AM | Link to this

Shaun-I don’t think it’s so much that Jeff’s RBI overshadowed his out potential, but the fact he was so successful at driving in two out runs gave him a pass. It’s easy to accept flaws when you’re still productive. Last year there was no production, so we were much less forgiving of the outs.

Maybe it’s six of one half a dozen of the other. I’d still be happy if he drives in 100 again-makes the low .300 OBP much easier to accept. I’m still hopeful he will figure it out and maybe get a little more selective. Maybe he won’t, but I’m not ready to give up on him yet. He at least seems willing to work on it and that should give him an edge towards success-unlike Andruw’s stubborness. We all see where that got him.

By brent a.

October 31, 2008 10:59 AM | Link to this

But no one noticed that he was an easy out before this season because things like RBI and batting average are generally overvalued. Shaun

Two years ago, in particular, people were extremely aware that Francoeur was an easy out.

IIRC, someone wrote an article in SI, noting that JF was having the worst season of any major league outfileder (perhaps one of the worst in history), based upon his OBP, etc. So clearly, “someone” noticed.

That being said, Francoeur was worse than ever this year. Not only was he not getting on base, but he also didn’t have much pop in his bat.

What people were so disappointed in this year, was not simply how his totals compared to his historical averages; but rather, they were upset that he looked so hopelessly lost, one season after it appeared that he was starting to turn the corner.

2007 was a better year for Jeff than was 2006. But, 2008 was miserable; yet, going into this season, the fans expected Jeff to continue his 2007 improvement, but hit with more power, due largely to the extra work he had put in in the weight room in the off-season.

As it turned out, all that back fired, he looked heavy and slow, and couldn’t hit nor field.

He looked worse than the 2006 Jeff that people were so down on. That is why people were so disappointed.

While it may be true that fans expected too much from JF in 2008, based upon what he has shown us historically, fans were still aware of his penchant for making outs, going into this year. However, after his improvement last year, the hope/expectations were that he would continue to improve. That didn’t happen.

That doesn’t mean that no one knew about his history, it just meant that they were hopeful for continued development.

By DAP

October 31, 2008 10:59 AM | Link to this

DOB Staying put in San Diego with his family appears to be first and foremost on his list of priorities.

i remembered that he vetoed the trade to boston, but i was wondering the pads could say “accept the trade or we buy out your contract…” im not sure what order all that has to go in. like…do they have to exercise his option before trying to trade him or whatever…

even if they could use the buy out as leverage he might just take the buyout and go play with another california team for $9mil. just thinking out loud, really.

By McFann O –[brr!]

October 31, 2008 11:01 AM | Link to this

Oh, and let me go on record to say that I’m against the neutral sight for the World Series.

By DAP

October 31, 2008 11:03 AM | Link to this

guys, a very interesting free agent…bobby abreu. he is a great #3 hitter but he has a great balance of power, average, OBP and speed. he is also one of those guys who doesnt care if you are a lefty…he hits everyone. the yanks have a crowded outfield and might not be able to get him back…does abreu fit our needs and price range? i really dont know how much he would need…but im guessing it would be less than his 2008 $16mil salary.

By Shaun

October 31, 2008 11:06 AM | Link to this

McFann and Efrim, I just think baseball needs to do some practical things so the game makes since to the very casual baseball fan. Most casual fans just see baseball as more old fashioned, boring and the season as too long. Doing things to help the game and trying to make money aren’t necessarily mutually exclusive.

I think baseball should adjust the schedule to make sense. Right now one team may play a tougher schedule than another though they are battling for the same playoff spot. Most people who pay attention to baseball only in passing but are somewhat interested in the game probably just see a bunch of regular season games that don’t matter as much as a series in October.

The playoffs are watered down and therefore the regular season has less meaning. In my opinion, pennant races, particular ones between great teams, are what drives interest in regular season baseball. That doesn’t exist any more. In most years every team that is great is going to make the playoffs, so why watch late season games? There is maybe one game a year that would draw the interest of the folks who are only somewhat interested in the game. But going back to a two-division format for each league, people would pay attention to a lot more games down the stretch.

Also, since the playoffs are watered down, there is less interest it seems to me, especially in the first round. People are smart enough to realize that flukes happen in baseball in short series so the playoffs are less interesting if you have a relatively mediocre team with a decent shot at a World Series title. Going back to a two-division format for each league would help this problem as well.

I’m not saying this would make things perfect, just better. Obviously maybe interleague play would have to be scrapped. And with any divisional format, a team with an inferior record to another may make reach the playoffs when the better team is left out.

The things that seperates baseball from other sports is that a long season is more meaningful, more telling and can be as exciting as a playoff series.

I give Selig credit for trying three divisions and a Wild Card but I think it’s time to go back to two divisions.

By Random

October 31, 2008 11:09 AM | Link to this

“They were affectionately referred to as “The Swinging A’s””

Has anyone here heard of “The Sweet Bangin’ A’s” out of Chattanooga?

By Braveheart

October 31, 2008 11:17 AM | Link to this

Didn’t the Braves players let it be known the next spring training that they enjoyed no longer having Marcus Giles in their clubhouse? After the Braves had dumped him for having a bad year?

Obviously, getting rid of Marcus Giles was the right thing to do, but if you were Brian Giles why would you want to leave a town you love being in to go to work for an employer that fired your brother as soon as things got rough? Why would you leave a town you love being in to go work alongside co-workers that trashed your brother on the way out the door?

If I had no choice, I’d swallow my pride and take the job and paycheck. But given the choice, which Brian Giles has, I wouldn’t want to work for or with folks who did that to my brother…. and it wouldn’t matter to me how right they were about my brother. It’s still my damn brother.

By David O'Brien

October 31, 2008 11:28 AM | Link to this

Wes, I think Willingham is on the Braves’ board like just about anyone else who might be able to help the worst-hitting outfield in the NL last season. But I’ve heard concern this year, including from some with Marlins, about Willingham’s back. Some worries that he could have a chronic problem along the lines of Kotsay.

By cooper

October 31, 2008 11:33 AM | Link to this

I am not sure what the Braves are thinking about Hudson and 2009.

I get the sense that given Wren’s outlook on question mark players (due to injury etc) he is not relying on Hudson contributing in 09.

It would be risky to expect much from Hudson in 09 apart from a few September starts where he may only pitch 3-4 innings/game.

That is why a one year deal for Hampton makes sense. Assuming Hudson comes back ok Hampton would be a book mark for Hudson’s 2010 return.

That said if they sign two FOR starters who combined make say 25-30mm/year I don’t know how you fit Hudson in the mix in 2010 unless payroll is going up $10-15mm in 2010.

Imagine though (2010)

Peavy Hudson Burnett JJ Hanson

That is a OMG rotation.

By DAP

October 31, 2008 11:37 AM | Link to this

braveheart good point about giles.

By kdbanks

October 31, 2008 11:39 AM | Link to this

From MLBTradeRumors.com: Joe Cowley of the Sun-Times says trading starter Javier Vazquez is Williams’ top offseason priority. Cowley believes Williams could look for an infielder in return. Vazquez will earn $23MM over the next two seasons, and has a limited no-trade clause to block trades to NL and AL West teams.

If I remember correctly, Bobby Cox used to drool over this guy when he was with the Expos. This seems like the type of guy we might bring in. He’s very capable of giving you a 15-10 year, with 30+ starts and 200+ innings and an ERA under 4.00. If we can pull Peavy somehow, I think Vazquez would be a good complement. If the Pale Hose want an infielder, then they have to look at the Braves, right?

By DAP

October 31, 2008 11:48 AM | Link to this

i dont think an era under 4 is what you expect from vazquez. i think what you expect is just an innings eater. a #3 pitcher i wouldnt mind having, but lets get williams to package jermaine dye with him, and then we really help this team.

By McFann O –[brr!]

October 31, 2008 11:55 AM | Link to this

Shaun—

I also think they should somewhat fix the lopsided schedule…though I don’t have a problem with the Braves having to make only a couple trips out West.

My biggest thing is inter-league play—I can’t stand inter-league play. It’s run it’s corse. It takes away from the World Series (I think). It also kinda takes away from the ASG…’Cause you already saw a lot of those AL guys in IL, so what’s the big deal with seeing them at the ASG? I like the ASG, but I don’t like inter-league play…at all…

By N Nine

October 31, 2008 11:57 AM | Link to this

Are White Sox willing to package a guy like Dye? He would be welcomed back here.

By Dan in NJ

October 31, 2008 12:06 PM | Link to this

This is just great. The World Champions in the same division as the Braves. Living in NJ, I have to hear it from those darn Mets fans how much the Braves stink. If this doesn’t make Wren & co. do something to save this franchise, I’m afraid it’s going to be more of the sameol’ sameol’

By Efrim

October 31, 2008 12:07 PM | Link to this

I can’t imagine the White Sox packaging Dye and Vasquez and not asking for a ton back in return.

I like Vasquez, but I think he costs us Kelly Johnson and then some. I’m not willing to make that trade.

Why would the White Sox even trade Jermaine Dye?

By Lew

October 31, 2008 12:13 PM | Link to this

KDBanks-Vasquez could be an interesting acquisition-depending on what he would cost trade-wise.

I think we’re looking for a number one and a number 2-3 pitcher. Vasquez would seem to me a number 3-4 pitcher, but he DOES eat innings, is only around 32 despite his tons of ML service, has a respectable ERA and Bobby does (or at least DID) like him. He might not be my first choice, but could fit the bill and leave a few $$$ left to tone up the lineup a bit.

By Shaun

October 31, 2008 12:20 PM | Link to this

McFann, I don’t so much mind interleague play but I think the novelty has worn away and it just messes up the schedule. Maybe if they could find a way logistically to allow every team to play every other team in the majors because that would mean a more balanced schedule. But I just don’t know if that’s possible.

By DAP

October 31, 2008 12:25 PM | Link to this

N Nine i think having carlos quentin, plus the white sox wanting to get younger and faster at several positions(middle infield and outfield) makes dye somewhat expendable to the chisox. the braves also have several players who are exactly in the mold of what they want.

By jim

October 31, 2008 12:27 PM | Link to this

I have 3 observations from reading some of the previous posts: 1. Are the Padres likely to get anything close to Hanson back from an offer they might get from ANY other team? Unlikely! The only possibility might be Phil Hughes if Peavy agrees to include the Yankees in the teams he would consider, and Hughes’ stock has dropped recently to a point where he is not as hot a prospect as Hanson. So why would anyone consider trading him? Sabathia, Santana, Harden, Lidge, and even Haren went for far less than the offers being mentioned here.

1. Would I trade Jeff Francouer for Harang? In a heartbeat! I can’t see why the Reds would want to do this, however.

2. Bringing back Edgar Renteria to play SS or 2B if Yunel or Kelly are traded. NO! Renteria can’t play SS any more. Even in 2007 he showed very limited range and a VERY weak arm. His days of hitting over 300 are also probably behind him. (I don’t think Furcal is a viable option either. Watching him in the NLDS, it was evident that he couldn’t bend over far enough to pick up cleanly ground balls to either side that Yunel would make a play on easily. He would be more expensive than ER, but would be a big health concern.)

By Lew

October 31, 2008 12:27 PM | Link to this

Shaun-Just wanted you to know I tried to call Ruben Amaro, Jr. this morning. Not surprisingly, he was not in. I left him a message and told him I’ll try again after the GM meetings (which he may well be preparing for-if not just taking a couple days to breathe).

If I can’t get ahold of him then, I’ll call his Dad. He will either have him contact me or I could try to get a ML Scout’s take on the MVP/ use of Sabremetrics questions.

By kdbanks

October 31, 2008 12:29 PM | Link to this

Dye would be a good pickup, but I agree with others that the cost of a Dye/Vazquez package may be steep - unless the Sox are trying to move salary.

I think Vazquez could be had for a couple of minor/MLB guys, including one infielder. Maybe a Lillibridge or Prado and a young arm?

By DAP

October 31, 2008 12:31 PM | Link to this

efrim Why would the White Sox even trade Jermaine Dye?

i wouldnt if i were them, because i like the idea of having thome, quentin, dye, back to back, but the rumor is he, along with konerko, and now vazquez, can be had. dye would be a pretty good fit for us. i think it has a lot to do with wanting the team to get younger, and faster. dye is one of the more tradable peices, so there you go.

id love the braves to get him. ive thought about it alot, and i think hes an even beter fit than ordonez.

By Efrim

October 31, 2008 12:34 PM | Link to this

Shaun

Do you really want to go back to two divisions and no wild card? I really enjoy the WC.

By nate

October 31, 2008 12:36 PM | Link to this

Pennant races are a thing of the past. And while they may have been exciting to serious baseball fans, they didn’t generate much in the way of revenue.

Baseball will go to four divisions per league before they go back to two. There’s too much money to be made in playoff games. Plus having more playoff spots keeps more teams (cities) involved through the end of the season and beyond.

By Lew

October 31, 2008 12:36 PM | Link to this

I think KD is right about what Vasquez would cost. I’m not so sure the Braves will go for a Dye/Ordonez type outfielder. I think they’ll go younger and cheaper.

By McFann O –[brr!]

October 31, 2008 12:41 PM | Link to this

Shaun I think the novelty has worn away and it just messes up the schedule.

I think so, too.

I don’t know, though…no offense, but I’m not too keen on the thought of every team playing every other team.

Let the NL play the NL and the AL play the AL until the ASG and WS.

By Lew

October 31, 2008 12:45 PM | Link to this

Where is the Lunatic Fringe this morning? Seems like everyone is talking sense today. I love it.

Jim-I pretty well agree with your evaluation, but if the price were right (big Atlanta discount), I would be willing to give Edgar a contract. I really think that yes, he is in the declining years of his career, but I also believe he has a couple pretty good seasons left in him, too. His range, as you say, is somewhat limited, but he does still make most plays well. His arm is accurate, if not strong.

I really believe he is just NOT an AL player. Maybe he knows the NL pitchers better, but it is strange that he has great seasons in the NL, sandwiched around terrible AL seasons. That’s GOT to be at least a factor.

If we DO have to trade either KJ or Yunel, I would consider him for at least a one year fix.

By cabravesfan

October 31, 2008 12:56 PM | Link to this

McFann

I am with you on the inter league play- never liked it, probably never will (although it was fun to watch the Braves in Anaheim this year…)

Not really in favor of shortening the season, however- I think there are other ways to not have the playoffs creep into November

By kdbanks

October 31, 2008 12:57 PM | Link to this

Top 50 free agent listing on SI.com has some interesting names…suggests the Braves might sign Braden Looper for the rotation and that’s it out of the Top 50 for us.

The names I like on this list as Braves possibilities: Pitchers: Jon Garland Left Fielders: Jim Edmonds (kudos to eware on that one), Adam Dunn, Mark Kotsay, Juan Rivera and Pat Burrell (who is younger than I thought at 32).

By Eric

October 31, 2008 1:02 PM | Link to this

WAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!! You get paid for this?!? Blogging about how disinterested everyone (read as Braves fans) is in this World Series. What a joke. Crying about start times? Would they have started at 830 if the Braves didn’t suck and were involved. Then to corroborate your whining you enlist the opinion of ONE disenfranchised major leaguer. Great journalism - you should be a political blogger. You and the rest of the sad sack half-a* Brave fans better get used to the televised post-season experience because the change of the guard was completed two seasons ago. Have a nice winter ya’ll!

By Shaun

October 31, 2008 1:03 PM | Link to this

Efrim, I just think the Wild Card makes the regular season and playoffs a little less interesting to a lot of people. Doesn’t bother me too much because I’ll watch MLB no matter what. Maybe I’m completely wrong about that; obviously I didn’t do any surveys or anything. It’s just the sense I get. I think the two-division format would bring more interests back to the game.

More teams are involved now, that’s true. But there aren’t any races between great teams that all baseball fans—the avid and the casual ones alike—get caught up in.

And to a lot of casual fans, the playoffs are drawn out and they realize that in baseball flukes are much more likely to happen than in other sports. In baseball it’s not extremely surprising if an 88-win team knocks off a 100-win team in a playoff series. So the playoffs seem watered down when you have merely okay teams in it every year because in baseball those okay teams have a better shot to win than in other sports.

By David O'Brien

October 31, 2008 1:04 PM | Link to this

I have 3 observations from reading some of the previous posts: 1. Are the Padres likely to get anything close to Hanson back from an offer they might get from ANY other team? Unlikely! …. So why would anyone consider trading him? Jim

Jim, that’s probably one reason why Wren has said at every opportunity he is NOT trading his top-shelf prospects. Whether anyone else — bloggers, media members, etc — is considering trading Hanson is entirely irrelevent. Only Wren’s intentions are germane in this discussion, right?

By Joe M.

October 31, 2008 1:05 PM | Link to this

Guys, Jake Peavy is done. Rosenthal says the Padres are moving on from the Braves to the Dodgers and Cubs. And who can blame them? If I was the Padres GM, I wouldn’t trade a young ace like Peavy for a third-rate package involving Flowers, Lillibridge, Reyes and Morton…I wouldn’t trade Peavy unless I got Escobar, Johnson, Hanson or Heyward; and the Braves apparently don’t want to do that.

Face facts:the Braves are cheap. They’ve been cheap ever since Ted Turner left. Accept that the Braves aren’t getting Peavy or A.J. Burnett or Adam Dunn or Magglio Ordonez or Pat Burrell. Despite over forty million to spend and the prospects to make trades, the Braves’ “big acquisitions” will be duds like Garett Anderson or Juan Rivera or Jon Garland.

By Shaun

October 31, 2008 1:06 PM | Link to this

nate, you are probably right. I think pennant races create more buzz and draw more interests from casual fans. But more teams don’t get the big TV contracts and gate receipts that come with the playoffs. Then again, ratings are down, so it’s possible that maybe baseball will realize that they need those pennant races to peak fan interest.

By David O'Brien

October 31, 2008 1:09 PM | Link to this

By the way, after a decade or so of waiting, anyone still excited about Guns N’ Roses’ announced Nov. 23 release date for Chinese Democracy?

I’d say I’m curious, but not too excited. I’m gonna go out on a limb and say it’ll pale next to the stuff that made the band’s real lineup such a force.

By McFann O –[brr!]

October 31, 2008 1:11 PM | Link to this

cabravesfan—

Yeah, the more I think about it, I don’t know that I’d like a shorter season, either.

I’d be more for shortening ST…and, yes, ditching the WBC…

By Steve from OH

October 31, 2008 1:15 PM | Link to this

DOB, totally agreed on Chinese Democracy. No Slash, Duff, Izzy=no GNR.

I’m curious to see what 10 years in the studio sounds like, too.

By DAP

October 31, 2008 1:15 PM | Link to this

edgar cant supplant escobar. if edgar can play 2nd, and we end up trading kelly somehwere, id go for edgar. he had a bad year last year, but id be surprised if he is completly done. his leadership would really be valued on a young braves team.

the only way it works is if he plays 2nd base, because he will not supplant escobar, who should not be going anywhere.

By Efrim

October 31, 2008 1:18 PM | Link to this

kdbanks

Jon Garland is horrible. He isn’t going to be worth anything near what he is going to get. I’d rather give Jo Jo Reyes the ball every fifth day than to pay Jon Garland.

By Efrim

October 31, 2008 1:22 PM | Link to this

Shaun

You make some good points, but I really think shrinking the divisions to two would make baseball less interesting. Especially to the casual fan who loves the Wild Card idea. At least I think they do. But like you said, I haven’t taken a survey or done any research to back that up. Just my two cents. I think more teams being involved grabs a larger audience than two or three teams being in the hunt.

By David O'Brien

October 31, 2008 1:29 PM | Link to this

Face facts:the Braves are cheap. They’ve been cheap ever since Ted Turner left. Accept that the Braves aren’t getting Peavy or A.J. Burnett or Adam Dunn or Magglio Ordonez or Pat Burrell. Despite over forty million to spend and the prospects to make trades, the Braves’ “big acquisitions” will be duds like Garett Anderson or Juan Rivera or Jon Garland.Joe M

Joe M, times change. Desperate times, desperate measures. (And I would argue that a $90-plus mill payroll isn’t exactly “cheap” to begin with, but that’s another story.)

Want to bet that the Braves make at least one major, big-ticket acquisition, via trade or free agency? You say they won’t. I say they will. Right here, right now. Let’s mark it down.

By Braveheart

October 31, 2008 1:30 PM | Link to this

But going back to a two-division format for each league, people would pay attention to a lot more games down the stretch.

Shaun, 75% of the teams have made it into October over the last decade. Over half the league is still arguably in contention for October at almost every trading deadline. Attendance and revenues and salaries increase every season.

A two division format would just monopolize the power and money in the big market teams. With less teams in contention, there would be less revenue generated for the lesser teams and even for the big market teams. The result would be that the lesser markets would have even less of an ability to maintain guys through the first six years …. their core young guys would be too costly once they are arb-eligible.

In the current system, if the lesser markets can’t make tons of money to retain and get guys they want/need to win consistently, they can make enough money to go the more cost effective route of using that money in scouting and development and statistical analysis. With less money, those teams wouldn’t be able to use the money they are making to a scouting, marketing, and statistical evaluation advantage. Less money means less scouts, less salesman, less minor league instructors, and less sabermetric advisers being contracted with.

They wouldn’t have the money to justify the luxury of spending that money….. and even if they did, what would be the point? They wouldn’t really have the ability to win because the upper tier of the two divisions would be controlled by the big market teams.

They’re never going to go back to two divisions. It wasn’t as rewarding for baseball and all of their teams financially.

Two divisions just concentrates the money and the power in the already wealthy teams. As much as we love the idea of the pennant chase, if you’re a small market team, do you really care to see the Yankees and Red Sox go at it for years and years in a pennant chase? Not really. The Cold War between Russia and America held tons of interest for Americans and Russians but was not of much interest to anyone in Zimbabwe.

Not concentrating the wealth and power in the wealthy superpower teams in a two team division by spreading the wealth and power to all of the teams has caused every market in the sport to have a vested interest. This has made every team, including the wealthy superpower teams far more money than they were making under the old two division system.

By Efrim

October 31, 2008 1:32 PM | Link to this

Joe M.

They spent something like 92 million on the team last year. Why in the world would you consider them cheap? They aren’t idiots. They aren’t going to trade 4-5 of our best prospects or young players for Jake Peavy. At least not with the initial offer. You should be happy that they are waiting for SD to lower their demands.

By David O'Brien

October 31, 2008 1:34 PM | Link to this

Baseball might add another wild card someday, perhaps in the not-too-distant future. But baseball is NOT going back to the two-division days. No way, no how. How anyone can seriously think that would even be considered is beyond me, given the huge revenues created by the wild-card system and the sellouts and TV contracts and the keeping teams in contention until the end of the season, when many of those same teams would’ve been done by the All-Star break under the old system.

No turning back. No possibility of that.

By Carroll

October 31, 2008 1:49 PM | Link to this

Well I never thought I’d see the day when somebody made Bobby Cox look like a genius. But being here in Tampa and following the Rays this season and post-season, Joe Maddon takes the cake. So many things…it’s just fortunate that the bats were hot enough to cover hs hijinx in the boston series.

Look at the second half of game 5 alone: Price should’ve started from the beginning…didn’t….rays promptly give up the lead. Miraculously, they tie it back up…could have gotten more, but instead of pinch hitting for a relief pitcher who has never batted in the bigs, he leaves him in there to bunt. Then leaves him in there to pitch Philly right back into the lead. THEN we finally see Price—whom nobody has hit this postseason…but it’s too late. then he pinch hits for Baldelli (who just hit a homerun); then he pinch hits for Bartlett, who has had more big, clutch hits for the Rays than anyone this year (think lemke 1991). And just what were we going to do defensively had the rays tied it? Put Hinske at short?

Just…damn.

By BravesFanInRockies

October 31, 2008 1:49 PM | Link to this

DOB,

I think it’s more likely MLB would add two expansion teams and go to eight divisions than it is to return to a two-division-per-league setup.

No WC, but four divisions in each league.

As for Vasquez, why not kick the tires? He’ll be 33 in the spring, he’s consistently had a 3-to-1 K/BB ratio and hey typically pitches below league average in ERA.

Williams might ask for KJ in return. I’d say no to that, but would be willing to consider other options.

By rammerjammer

October 31, 2008 1:52 PM | Link to this

Steve, thanks for your 10:37 quoting Kurkjian.

It’s like shopping for a car. You gotta be willing to walk away. And when you start walking, the salesman’s price starts falling.

By StingerSplash

October 31, 2008 1:55 PM | Link to this

“Appetite for Destruction” was one of the great rock n roll records of all time and maybe the best major debut of all time. But after “Lies” and the “Use Your Illusion” 1 and 2, Axl’s act and the inner band turmoil just turned me off. Remember GNR reunited for a performance on one of MTV’s dumbaxx awards shows, with Axl proclaiming at the end, “Round 1!”? MTV — OK, Kurt Loder — got all worked up about GNR getting back together, but at that point, weren’t they on the ramp about to hurtle over the shark? I mean, it wasn’t The Beatles, it wasn’t David Gilmour and Roger Waters mending fences, it wasn’t Page/Plant/John Paul Jones getting back together. Once “Civil War” came out (and I listened to that song about 3-4 times over the last few days, and it was on the radio today), shouldn’t they have just said, “You know, this is one hellacious song. Let’s go out on top and go our own ways” with GNR fading into history?

And they’re lining up already for the free agent sweepstakes. Gonna be an interesting few weeks.

By Jeff R

October 31, 2008 2:00 PM | Link to this

I don’t recall who wrote that a Peavy deal is off with the Braves. But I doubt it. Towers is shopping Peavy - he should. Needless-to-say, he wants the best return available for his ace. But now that that miserable World Series is over, GM talks are just warming up.

I’m guessing that if Towers and Wren eventualy cut a deal, it will revolve around… Escobar. Morton and a solid but not top tier pitching prospect could round out the package.

Again, I’d guess that Wren would be willing to surrender Escobar for Peavy if he doesn’t have to give up his core prospects.

Greene - who would be salary dumped on the Braves - and Lillibridge could give the Braves a decent tandem at shortstop.

Wren knows that starting pitching is the team’s critical need. He’ll make moves, and I bet he’d swap Escobar for the right hurler.

By Justin

October 31, 2008 2:06 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Any insight on whether the Braves will pursue any players from Asia? I’ve seen rumblings here and there, but nothing concrete.

By Braveheart

October 31, 2008 2:19 PM | Link to this

Well I never thought I’d see the day when somebody made Bobby Cox look like a genius.

Hindsight is always 20/20. Those who criticize the most have usually never had a job that demands damned if you do, damned if you don’t decisions. The toughest decision of their day is usually paper or plastic at the supermarket.

The Monday Morning QB always make the right decision ….. only, of course, after seeing first how it all turns out from the comfort of their armchair while guzzling their tenth Bud of the night. The actual QB knows he only needs to get a few more right than he gets wrong.

It wasn’t Maddon’s fault that Bossman Junior grounded into 25 double plays in the World Series and that his first baseman and third baseman were AWOL. Maddon could have done a few things better but it wasn’t ever gonna be enough to overcome the failure of his boys to play good ball. His team just wasn’t good enough this time around.

By ncscoots

October 31, 2008 2:20 PM | Link to this

He’ll make moves, and I bet he’d swap Escobar for the right hurler.

In which case, he should be immediately demoted to the status of blogger, for he will have confirmed that his tenure in Baltimore was not an aberration.

By Bill

October 31, 2008 2:22 PM | Link to this

Let’s forget about Peavy and go after Cain of the Giants. I think the Giants will listen. I’m a little afraid of Peavy’s medical condition. Offer Escobar, Jo Jo and two low level prospects. I would hate to give up Escobar but to get pitching, someone has to go. I like the idea of trying to get Vasquez. That would give farm system to develope two more years.

By David O'Brien

October 31, 2008 2:23 PM | Link to this

Braveheart, excellent point (2:19).

By keylargo

October 31, 2008 2:26 PM | Link to this

Liberty Media has increased the payroll by $40 million but what about these four players:

1. Hampton - $15mm in 2008. Not signed

2. Smoltz - $14mm in 2008. Not signed

3. Glavine - $8mm in 2008. Not signed

4. Hudson - $13mm in 2009 but on the DL. Does insurance pick up his salary until he comes off the DL?

If all three pitchers unsigned are signed to $5mm contracts and insurance picks up 50% of Hudson’s salary that is another $26.5mm of salary saved from the 2008 season.

I asking a question, not telling, but I don’t see why this should not be part of the total payroll

By Joe M.

October 31, 2008 2:27 PM | Link to this

Want to bet that the Braves make at least one major, big-ticket acquisition, via trade or free agency? You say they want. I say they will. Right here, right now. Let’s mark it down.

Hey, from your lips to God’s ears.

I’m just overly cynical. But it is hard not to be after this past season.

By Lunatic Fringe

October 31, 2008 2:33 PM | Link to this

Did someone ask for me?

By DAP

October 31, 2008 2:39 PM | Link to this

keylargo Liberty Media has increased the payroll by $40 million

haha! no they havent. that would be nice though! the $40 mil that has been thrown around on the blog is the approxamate amount of money wrent has to spend, based on money coming off the books (those contracts you talked about) increase in payrole, taking into account raises to certain players, ect.

so $40mil is what we have to work with. have fun.

By RC

October 31, 2008 2:40 PM | Link to this

Assuming a Peavy deal is reached that includes Escobar, how about the idea of signing Furcal to come back and reclaim his spot at SS for the Braves next year. He might come at a discount due to his recent injury history, and assuming Lillibrige, Infante, and Prado are still around there are plenty of capable backups should he miss any time. I’d love to see him back atop the Braves lineup…we’ve not reached the playoffs since he left.

By WaitTilNextYear

October 31, 2008 2:53 PM | Link to this

Hampton, NO! Glavine, NO! Smoltz, MAYBE. It’s time to turn a new leaf and get some YOUNG, strong arms in the rotation. Whether it be by trade, free agency or holding someone at gunpoint, the rotation has GOT to get younger.

By Lew

October 31, 2008 2:55 PM | Link to this

KeyLargo-What DAP said. Also, Wren has said that should they be able to re-sign Glavine, and Smoltz (possibly Hampton, too) that it would be above and beyond the $40 mil. At least that’s how I remember it. I’m sure if I’m wrong someone will tell me.

By Shaun

October 31, 2008 2:56 PM | Link to this

DOB, I agree with your 1:34 PM wholeheartedly. No way baseball is going back to a two-division format. But in my opinion it would make the game better and more attractive to casual fans. Just my opinion. I know there is not a chance MLB would go back to it because of the immediate revenue they earn from expanded playoffs.

Braveheart, during the two-division years teams like the Royals, Twins, A’s and Reds were very successful. I don’t see that it would change the balance of power to a few teams.

And I would argue that baseball would draw more fan interest and in turn more money over the long haul with a two-division format. But I know it won’t happen because of the instant gratification that comes from playoff TV contracts and playoff gate receipts.

I would also argue that the increase in revenue recently has as much to do with the owners finding better ways to created demand in recent years than it does a change in the playoff format.

Owners have realized that small stadiums are the way to go because fewer seats means more demand. Oakland, Tampa Bay and Florida actually closed off sections of their stadiums within the last decade in order to create demand.

Owners have also been wise about using the internet, satellite radio and satellite TV packages to create new revenue streams. This also has as much to do with the increase in revenue as the expanded playoff format.

Again, not saying baseball is ever going to go back to two divisions. It’s guaranteed revenue right away versus building interest over the long haul, and many of us would choose the immediate, guaranteed revenue. I strongly agree that baseball isn’t going to go back to the two-division days. I’m just saying, I strongly believe it would be better for them in the long run if they did.

By Hillbilly

October 31, 2008 2:58 PM | Link to this

By Lew

Where is the Lunatic Fringe this morning? Seems like everyone is talking sense today. I love it.

Lew,

I thought you knew…The lunatics are on the grass.

By Wayne

October 31, 2008 3:00 PM | Link to this

Carroll concerning your 1:49pm post.

Though my friend Braveheart did a fine job of explaining hindsight, I would like to add a point or two.

First, Maddon was assuming a potentially long game (letting the pitcher hit). Next, he did not go straight to Price because Balfour and Howell have done excellent work for the Rays this year.

Lastly, didn’t you notice that Zobrist was a pinch-hitter earlier in the inning (for Baldelli, I believe it was). You show your lack of baseball knowledge by wondering who would play SS if they tied the score. Zobrist is a SS by trade. He would have played short, and Hinske would have gone into right field.

By Wayne

October 31, 2008 3:05 PM | Link to this

Question? If Frank Wren only spends 39.5 million of the 40 he has to spend on new parts, do you think he would give me the last 500K?

I could pay off my house, all my debt, and still have a LARGE chunck of coin to throw a huge DOB/MIB/BBQ blog party on opening day in Atlanta this year.

Sounds like fun to me!

By nate

October 31, 2008 3:05 PM | Link to this

I would imagine that MLB is starting to think about expanding again. Revenues are at an all time high. Everyone is making tons of money. Attendance is up over most of the league. Its been ten years since Arizona and Tampa were added, and now both of those teams have played in the world series.

If the AL added two teams (Portland, San Antonio) then then both leagues could move to four divisions apiece and the silly wild card could be dropped. Plus expanding and moving to four divisions allows you to even out the number of teams in each division and league with making anyone mad.

By Wayne

October 31, 2008 3:06 PM | Link to this

Heck, I would even fly Lew down from the frigid NE to do spring training… my treat!

By Woo Hoo!

October 31, 2008 3:06 PM | Link to this

how about the idea of signing Furcal

Alright! The obligatory “hey, ever consider bringing back Furcal/Renteria?” post of the blog! We should never be allowed to get to the next new blog without at least one!

By Wayne

October 31, 2008 3:08 PM | Link to this

Hillbilly Some of the lunatics are in my head…..

By crap-wheelie

October 31, 2008 3:13 PM | Link to this

It saddens me to see that Andruw still thinks he will finish his career with the Braves. It’s likely he will finish his career early next season with the Dodgers. He just can’t hit anymore.

By Hillbilly

October 31, 2008 3:20 PM | Link to this

Wayne,

There’s someone in my head, but it’s not me.

By Wayne

October 31, 2008 3:23 PM | Link to this

Alright, here is the plan that will work.

Trade Escobar, Morton and Locke for Peavy and Greene. Trade BJones, Prado and Redmond for Jermaine Dye. Sign Ohman. Sign Wolf. Start planning for the party.

Peavy 11 mil

Greene 6.5 mil

Dye 9.5 mil

Wolf 9 mil

Ohman 3.5 mil (go big, or stay home)

Wayne’s Party .5 mil

Total 40 mil

We got a winner here!

By Steve from OH

October 31, 2008 3:27 PM | Link to this

Stingersplash:

Totally agree on Appetite for Destruction, fantastic album. Once Izzy left the band, things started going downhill for sure…Axl left to his own devices is, well, uh, let’s just see how Chinese Democracy turns out.

Hampton, NO! Glavine, NO! Smoltz, MAYBE.

Smoltz, “maybe?” Huh? So you just look at that guy and are like, “no, this guy can’t help our team at all. No way. Cut him loose?” I’ll let the first two slide (I’d be fine with either of them in a defined #5 role, with good acquistions ahead of them), but no way Smoltz isn’t a Brave in ‘09 if he’s healthy IMO.

By cabravesfan

October 31, 2008 3:29 PM | Link to this

Shaun

I always liked the 2 division format also-I really don’t like the wild card, although I understand that is generates more interest in the playoff races, but I am something of a purist…get rid of the wild card (if that means going to 4 divisions so be it- you should have to win your division to have a chance at the world series), get rid of inter league play, get rid of the DH (I know that is never going to happen but I can dream, right?) and stop letting the all star game decide home field advantage…

OK done ranting for now…

By David O'Brien

October 31, 2008 3:31 PM | Link to this

keylargo, you’ve got misinformation. Liberty has NOT raised payroll $40 mill. The $40 mill figure — and it’s only approximate, but Braves have indicated it’s probably reasonably close — is what they have to spend, including money from those expiring contracts you mentioned AND from the amount — again, approximate — that will be paid by insurance on Hudson’s contract while on DL.

it could be closer to $50 mill than $40 mill, but pretty safe to say it’s at least $40 mill….

HAPPY BIRTHDAY Larry Mullen Jr., who’s 47, and Adam Horovitz (Adrock), who’s 42.

By DAP

October 31, 2008 3:32 PM | Link to this

Where is the Lunatic Fringe this morning? Seems like everyone is talking sense today. I love it.

sounds like lew misses his friends!! :-)

By Wayne

October 31, 2008 3:36 PM | Link to this

I have always liked Matt Cain. I think we are one of the few teams that could come up with a package that would entice the Giants to let him go.

(cut and paste, as I don’t know how to link)

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081030&contentid=3655628&vkey=newssf&fext=.jsp&cid=sf&partnerId=rsssf

By ncscoots

October 31, 2008 3:37 PM | Link to this

Wayne, sometimes I think that too much clean air and beautiful surroundings has addled you, LOL. It’s a harsh thing to have happen to a good Clemson man.

By mbatl

October 31, 2008 3:39 PM | Link to this

cabravesfan, while we’re at it, expand two teams into the AL (Portland, San Antonio, as Nate suggested, or maybe Nashville), so you have 2 16-team leagues, four divisions per league.

Get rid of the “unbalanced schedule”, the Wild Card, and Interleague play, and let each team play every team in it’s league 10 times… for 150 total games. Shortens the season by 2 weeks, allowing the playoffs to start in about the 3rd week of September.

Seven-game first round, seven-game 2nd round, 7 game World Series should take no more than 28 days or so, with the WS game 7 around Oct. 25 (just guestimating).

By keylargo

October 31, 2008 3:44 PM | Link to this

If, and it’s a big if, Hampton stays healthy next year, he will win twelve to fifteen for someone. He was throwing quality start after quality start there at the end of 08 and he had been out for almost 3 years.

With a spring training and some conditioning behind him he will be tough. It wiil be a big mistake on Braves part not to sign him.

By McFann O –[brr!]

October 31, 2008 3:46 PM | Link to this

Wayne—

Sounds like fun to me, too! ; )

Hey, I mean, DOB