Braves

By TommyP

October 26, 2008 3:48 PM | Link to this

Rodrigo Lopez isn’t/wasn’t as bad as y’all made him sound. (in the last blog)

The guy’s rookie year was 15-9 with a 3.57 ERA.

He also had a 14-9 year with a 3.59 ERA.

Not saying that he was a good signing or anything like that. But he had a couple of very good seasons. I think he deserved more mention than his 4.90 year.

By brent a.

October 26, 2008 3:49 PM | Link to this

Smoltz stays.

By N Nine

October 26, 2008 3:49 PM | Link to this

2nd?

By HeywardTheFuture

October 26, 2008 3:55 PM | Link to this

Braves need to get back to the speed game. Josh Anderson gets overlooked too much.

By N Nine

October 26, 2008 3:59 PM | Link to this

Rodrigo Lopez best case scenario would be fighting for 5th spot. If all goes well.. I’m not too thrilled about the guy but could surprise having past experience in AL.

By Andrew

October 26, 2008 3:59 PM | Link to this

braves in 94?? don’t you mean 95???

By Deep Throat

October 26, 2008 4:15 PM | Link to this

Braves need to get back to the speed game. Josh Anderson gets overlooked too much.

If there is one things the Braves do not need, it’s more out-makers. Caught stealings are complete killers and stupid outs.

By JasonInFL (formerly ME)

October 26, 2008 4:22 PM | Link to this

N Nine, not overly worried…just stating that based on the salary numbers being speculated, it appears that some of the other FA pitchers will get more than the Braves are willing to pay…and maybe rightfully so. I think it is going to be an interesting and productive offseason, but just think that the Lowes and Burnetts will end up getting over paid and that the Bravos will look elsewhere.

Of course, once we land Peavy, our biggest need will be taken care of! (:

By StingerSplash

October 26, 2008 4:37 PM | Link to this

Subliminal message in your song choice today, Mr. O’Brien (as in, Mr Smoltz being the talk of the town), or maybe just a great song for a glorious Sunday? Still like the Phillies in 6, and I like Blanton over Sonnanstine tonight. May have to rethink my original WS MVP choice (picked Rollins and dude’s gone MIA in the lineup).

By McFann O –[brr!]

October 26, 2008 4:39 PM | Link to this

Heh heh, you’re welcome for the Corky line, N Nine. (Sorry, Corky!)

Thanks for the new blog, Chief!

By Mike Honcho

October 26, 2008 4:43 PM | Link to this

If the Braves aren’t a contender next year I really hope Smoltz does that. If the Braves aren’t winning a ring, I certainly wouldn’t mind seeing “The Bearded Braves Icon” and his tattered right arm getting another ring.

Smoltzie deserves our best wishes if he chooses to do so. That being said, I think we will be able to compete next year and Smoltz will be back if he can.

DOB, do we get draft picks if Smoltz departs? By the way, saw Willie Nelson last night at Billy Bob’s here in Ft. Worth. Amazing show you would have loved it. I’m enjoying the Townes Van Zandt albums you recommended last year.

By The Top 5 things MLB Should Ban

October 26, 2008 4:44 PM | Link to this

One: The DH Rule.

Two: Astroturf

Three: Stadiums with roofs

Four: Instant Replay

Five: Bats with toothpick-thin handles

By David O'Brien

October 26, 2008 4:59 PM | Link to this

Just got to the pressbox, after writing the blog at the hotel before heading over. Watched the Falcons-Eagles game until the last five minutes, then walked into a swarm of thousands of Eagles fans as they were leaving the stadium across the street from Citizens Bank Park. If I’m not mistaken, a couple of them had been drinking….

Falcons got screwed on that muffed punt. Really are a pretty good team, to my great surprise. And Ryan’s gonna be a hell of a quarterback, it would appear.

By YunelFan

October 26, 2008 5:02 PM | Link to this

I definitely disagree with deepthroat here. The Braves do need more speed, and Anderson is a part of that. No, I would not necessarily give him an every day job, but lets use him as a pinch runner. it is ridiculous to say stealing is stupid. Watch the rays. We need some speed in the lineup and on the bench, which has been sorely lacking.

By kirknga

October 26, 2008 5:02 PM | Link to this

If there is one things the Braves do not need, it’s more out-makers. Caught stealings are complete killers and stupid outs.

Stealing bases is part of the game. To say that because you’ll get caught stealing sometimes that you shouldn’t even attempt try and feature the stolen base as part of your offense is bizarre.

By McFann O –[brr!]

October 26, 2008 5:04 PM | Link to this

StingerSplash May have to rethink my original WS MVP choice

Me, too. Looks like it could be Ruiz…

By Lew

October 26, 2008 5:08 PM | Link to this

TommyP-I won’t belabor the issue because I find it unlikely that he will ever be in the rotation and I am always glad to get pitching help from any quarter, but….

You mention that much is made of his 4.90 ERA he posted when he won 15 in 05, but since 2004, the Dude has an ERA of 5.07 and a WHIP of 1.42. He’s pitched all of 79 innings since 06. I’m really not sure what you would actually expect from him.

Someone asked earlier about his contract status-he is signed to a minor league deal for 09 and possibly 2010.

By mbatl

October 26, 2008 5:08 PM | Link to this

Falcons got screwed on that muffed punt.

No doubt. I really think that one of the effects of instant replay in the NFL is that officials now are “liberal” in their calls… rather than call the play dead (as they should have), they’re now inclined to keep the play alive, knowing it can be reviewed (problem was, with no timeouts, Falcons couldn’t ask for a review).

What really got me was the tv announcers blaming Mike Smith for using his last timeout, rather than blaming the dumba@@ official who obviously blew the call.

Oh well. Agree with you on the Falcons… they’re moving in the right direction.

By Deep Throat

October 26, 2008 5:13 PM | Link to this

Stealing bases is part of the game.

Yes they are. That doesn’t mean they are an effective weapon. When a player successfully steals a base, it raises the chances of scoring an inning by, if I recall correctly, something like 22%. Caught stealings decrease a team’s chances of scoring by like 68%. Simply put, it only takes a few caught stealings to wipe out any positives from a whole slew of successful stolen bases.

There was a report from BaseballProspectus, I read it like a year or so ago and will look for it, that went through one of Rickey Henderson’s huge stolen base seasons and talked about how despite all the stolen bases, he only scored his team a couple of more runs than if he never ran at all….and that is because of his team-killing caught stealings.

The risk of stealing bases is simply not worth it. The damage done by a caught stealing far outweighs the benefits of a stolen base.

By TommyP

October 26, 2008 5:35 PM | Link to this

Lew: Don’t be like others last week concerning your posts and NOT read what was written. :)

All I said was that Lopez has been better than what was mentioned by DOB and a few others.

When the best season you mention is a 4.90 season, it makes the guy sound worthless.

I just said he deserved some mention of his 2 very good seasons that he had as a rook and 3rd year player.

By kirknga

October 26, 2008 5:40 PM | Link to this

Every nuance in the game cannot be reduced to a statistic.

The ability to steal bases, and be aggressive on the base paths go hand in hand as both puts pressure on the opposing teams. That you only cite stats for failure in base running,but none for success is very telling I think.

If a team is caught stealing in the 1st and 5th inning, yet a steal in the 9th leads to the go-ahead or winning run, that 33% success rate looks more potent.

Proper coaching is as important as ability, I might add.Having a coach like Davey Lopes is a net plus I would bet.

I think one of the outgrowths of the steroid era is the diminution of base stealing. All of a sudden it became fashionable to wait for power and people started to produced stats that supposedly justified staying put once reaching base. It was as if people had been playing the game incorrectly for over a century if we are to buy in to some of the stats.

I’d like to see more stats about when teams steal and wins and how the pressure of a known base stealer like a Jose Reyes effects a pitcher and/or defense differently than a player who doesn’t steal bases.

By flange1

October 26, 2008 5:41 PM | Link to this

Question for the group!

Edgar Renteria had an option for 2009 that was rejected by the Tigers. He will supposedly be a Type A Free Agent.

1. Can the Tigers offer him arbitration?

2. Do the Tigers get draft picks if he signs elsewhere?

Curious!!!!

By McFann O –[brr!]

October 26, 2008 5:49 PM | Link to this

Deep Throat Simply put, it only takes a few caught stealings to wipe out any positives from a whole slew of successful stolen bases.

Really? A “caught stealing”…huh…learn something new every—

Sorry.

By Deep Throat

October 26, 2008 5:54 PM | Link to this

“Think of stealing bases as a bit like one of those commercials for breakfast cereal. You know, the ones where they say it takes 14 bowls of Cereal X to equal what you get from one bowl of Cereal Y. In this case, it takes three stolen bases to equal one walk of shame back to the dugout. If you’re stealing at less than a 75% success rate, you’re better off never going at all.

A runner on first with no one out is worth .9116 runs. A successful steal of second base with no one out would bump that to 1.1811 runs, a gain of .2695 expected runs. If that runner is caught, however, the expectation—now with one out and no one on base—drops to .2783, a loss of .6333 expected runs. That loss is about 2.3 times the gain.

BP: Stolen Bases and How to Use Them

By Lew

October 26, 2008 6:11 PM | Link to this

TommyP-Dude, you’re talking about seasons that happened in 02 and 04. Yes, he pitched pretty well 5-7 years ago, but the intervening years have not been nearly as kind. You talk about him having a good ERA, but in 7 ML seasons, he has posted ERA’s of 4.4 or higher 5 times.

If I’m going to evaluate a pitcher for possible inclusion on our team, I would be more likely to take into account his most recent seasons-NOT go back to what amounts to pre-history, before he had some very rough years and apparently, two surgeries. He WAS good (or at least had some potential -mostly not realized), but lately? Not so much.

I repeat-what do you expect from him? I expect nothing. If by some wild shot out of hell he does actually do something positive, I’ll be very happy. Right now, I put him behind all the starters already on the ML roster. Far behind-even behind JoJo.

BTW-He’s not even on the 40 man roster, so it’s all a moot point, isn’t it.

By nolie

October 26, 2008 6:13 PM | Link to this

I’ll go along with Braveheart & Moby on John. If you’ve been paying attention for 20 years you know that this kinda crap comes up every time he negotiates but he never admits to knowing about it. I don’t much care for passive-aggressivity so he is not one of my favorite people though a damn good pitcher. As for the Chipper call-out, I don’t believe he was right. I think Chipper was correct to be careful. I think he came back earlier because of Smoltz and it worked out ok, but it raised the odds of a worse injury. It is like John to not live up to what he said. Oh well.I ‘d bet he stays but won’t mind at all if he leaves.

as for the stealing bases discussion it will likely break along the lines of whether one is a stathead or not. I don’t mean fantasy-player though. They are worth a good bit in some fantasy leagues, but thought little of in real baseball by modern stats guys.

By kirknga

October 26, 2008 6:20 PM | Link to this

Thanks for the link Deep Throat, I think it’s an interesting discussion. They are basically making an argument that “outs are more valuable than bases” and that is reasonable enough. However, baseball is situation-driven and their analysis is very broad.

I want to know who is on the mound, who is on base, who is the catcher, etc… The stats BP provides don’t go that deep. If the catcher is only throwing out 20% shouldn’t that be part of the decision process rather than just how many on and how many out?

In fact, they hedge their bet a bit further down in the article when they say * “Much of the frustration “statheads” have with base-stealing isn’t that it’s happening, but with how teams misuse the tactic. You want to steal bases when:…*

They go one to list several situations where they believe it is ok to steal.

So reading this article I am not persuaded that a team shouldn’t use the speed of a Josh Anderson, or Otis Nixon, but rather successful base stealing is a matter of matching situation with ability.

A team without speed, or with an unwillingness to steal, is not just valuing outs over bases, but also failing to use an offensive tactic that could cost it wins.

By McFann O –[brr!]

October 26, 2008 6:21 PM | Link to this

Deep Throat If you’re stealing at less than a 75% success rate, you’re better off never going at all.

Course, if you’re stealing at a 100% success rate, by all means, GO!

And yeah, there aren’t many who steal at that high of a success rate, but there’re a couple…

8 )

By N Nine

October 26, 2008 6:30 PM | Link to this

The Indians are looking for a replacement at third base, with Andy Marte having failed to live up to expectations and Casey Blake’s departure td

what happened to Marte? The guy dropped off the face of the earth. All the expectations from team to team..great dump JS.

Peavy talks in Boston:

Whenever you have a quality 27-year-old pitcher being dangled in trade talks, there’s going to be interest. The Braves appeared to be the best fit, but GM Frank Wrenn is backing off Kevin Towers’s demands. The Astros, Cardinals, and Brewers (perhaps the best fit) will be out there. The Sox are waiting to see whether Peavy would erase them from his no-trade list, though he’s not a huge priority. Peavy was in the Padres’ system when Theo Epstein and Larry Lucchino were team executives, so there’s a history. The Sox would be able to satisfy San Diego’s demands for low-priced players, especially a shortstop (Jed Lowrie), a center fielder (Jacoby Ellsbury or Coco Crisp), and a pitching prospect (Clay Buchholz, Michael Bowden, Justin Masterson) Nick Cafardo @Globe Newspaper Company

By David O'Brien

October 26, 2008 6:39 PM | Link to this

My man Cliff Floyd (shoulder) is out and Eric Hinske is activated. Teams are allowed to replace a hurt player with another of the same position within a series, different rule than it was years ago.

Cliff told me on the off day Friday that his shoulder was hurting, but he didn’t seem like it’d keep him out. I asked him what was wrong, and he smiled and said, “Getting old, man.” I told him I knew how he felt, that all I had to do was fall asleep sitting up in bed and I’d get a pain in my neck that lasted two days….

Mike Honcho, glad you’ve gotten into Townes. He was simply a remarkable songwriter, and that weary voice was so well-suited for the material. Too bad the dude drank himself to death while still so young.

By N Nine

October 26, 2008 6:40 PM | Link to this

Course, if you’re stealing at a 100% success rate, by all means, GO! McFann

Interesting! McCann a perfect 100% rate. 5 for 5…I’m sure your proud

I’m going over the board and saying he is getting TWO triples next year.:O)

By David O'Brien

October 26, 2008 6:43 PM | Link to this

Top 5 Things: I agree with you on all those points except instant replay. I think if they’d use it properly for home-run calls, it’s good, in these quirky parks where it’s so unclear on so many balls hit over the fences.

But the rest, you’re right — they need to go. But the DH ain’t going anywhere, unfortunately. Someday in the not-too-distant future, I do believe the only ballparks with roofs will be of the retractable kind.

By David O'Brien

October 26, 2008 6:47 PM | Link to this

Flange1: No, Tigers can’t offer Edgar R. arbitration after rejecting the option. He’s a free agent and they’ll get no compensatory pick.

By kirknga

October 26, 2008 6:54 PM | Link to this

N Nine, I think Marte is a cautionary tale about labeling prospects as “can’t miss”.

I read where the Cardinals said they weren’t in on the Peavy sweepstakes. I also question whether the Brewers still have enough top prospects left to make a trade for Peavy.

The Astros don’t have any top prospects or low-priced players many teams would be interested in.The BoSox package sounds like the same one that couldn’t get the Santana deal done.

If these teams wind up being the Braves’ competition then we might be in a good position to get a deal done.

By Deep Throat

October 26, 2008 7:01 PM | Link to this

The Red Sox and Yankees are always mentioned whenever there is a big-name free agent or trade piece available, even if it doesn’t make sense for the team to pursue the player. I’ve come to think of it as some PR thing by some of the big-market teams to placate those fans and their unreasonable expectations and make them think they’re after everyone good.

I’ll bet Peavy is not a Yankee, Red Sox or Met in 2009.

Sadly, I don’t think the Braves are getting Peavy any longer. I still hope it will happen. But the reality is, still, that you must give up something to get something. The Braves are not getting Peavy without giving up at least one top prospect (and no, Flowers does not count.) Some team will eventually meet the Padres’ demands, and I just doubt it will be cheapskate Wren.

By YunelFan

October 26, 2008 7:05 PM | Link to this

Wow did anyone get those complicated stats deepthroat just rattled off about stolen bases? They definitely need to be eliminated from all sane managers’ play books now…

I hope you can sense my sarcasm

By N Nine

October 26, 2008 7:05 PM | Link to this

kirknga

Ya it does sound like many teams in limbo regarding Peavy. Hope it does fall our way. WE NEED PEAVY. I like how he has limited it to a few teams. Peavy wants to come here. Heck we’ll pay for his shuttle to south alabama whenever he wants.

By BravesFanInRockies

October 26, 2008 7:07 PM | Link to this

kirknga,

I’m not a small ball fan, but I understand the value of having some versatility on the roster.

That said, if you can find a player who both gets on base and can steal at a high percentage, then go for it. If a player is very good at one and not so good at the other, the high on-base guy is more valuable because he’ll be in a position to score more often than the speed guy (you can’t steal first).

For that reason I’d rather have Gregor Blanco than Willy Taveras because Taveras — notwithstanding his blinding speed — makes too many outs to use if effectively. (I’d rather have Schafer than either one of them, but he’s no great base stealer — 71% successful this year.)

A problem with the current Braves roster is that several of the players who get on a lot don’t run very much or very effectively. KJ’s successful about 60 percent of the time. Yunel’s terrible (under 50% for his career, and doesn’t otherwise run the bases well). Gregor’s OK but doesn’t run often because I’m not sure he’s very fast.

The most successful base stealers on the team may be Chipper and Heap. Yikes.

Some better coaching might bring up the percentages, but we’d need a significant infusion of different talent to make this an effective running team.

By **Dave Roberts**

October 26, 2008 7:08 PM | Link to this

Stolen bases mean absolutely nothing.

By McFann O –[brr!]

October 26, 2008 7:10 PM | Link to this

N Nine—

Oh yeah, very proud! Gotta say, I never expected that!

I’m going over the board and saying he is getting TWO triples next year.

Whoa! OK, I’ll hold ya to that! ; )

By kirknga

October 26, 2008 7:15 PM | Link to this

The Braves are doing what they should be doing at this point and refusing to easily part with a bunch of top prospects. At this point it sounds as if they’re bidding against themselves.

By YunelFan

October 26, 2008 7:16 PM | Link to this

I think we are still the frontrunners in the Peavy sweepstakes. Even if Wren hangs on to Hanson and Heyward(which i hope he does) we still have some of the best trading chips on the market!! Would the Pads do this: Morton, KJ, Schafer, Flowers, and Jo-Jo? I would…

By BravesFanInRockies

October 26, 2008 7:21 PM | Link to this

Somebody’ll surely beat me to it, but the other advantage of having a Schafer rather than an Anderson is not only does Schafer get on base more often, he has some power, so there’s a better chance he’ll be on second or third because he hit a double or triple. Anderson’s too much of a punch-and-judy hitter.

By Babe Ruth after end of 1926 World Series

October 26, 2008 7:24 PM | Link to this

“Getting caught trying to steal doesn’t hurt you at all!”

By YunelFan

October 26, 2008 7:25 PM | Link to this

BravesFanInRockies: I completely agree. The only thing that separates Yunel from the elite is his lack of great speed. This is the only knock I have against him. The rest of the team sucks at stealing bases.

This is why Anderson and Hernandez need to be given their chance. We at least need some speed off the bench. Remember when Otis Nixon gave us all those HUGE sb?? We need more of that.

By Steve from OH

October 26, 2008 7:26 PM | Link to this

Kirknga, I think you’re right that BP’s article didn’t go deep enough into indivdual situations…but I think the general evaluation is telling. Of course, not all plays can be reduced to generalities, but perhaps an entire season can. In any case, Anderson makes too many outs at the plate IMO to make up for any positives he has on the basepaths. To me, he’s the perfect fourth outfielder. Not entirely comforable with him starting, but love him (or Brandon Jones or Gregor Blanco) in the 4th outfielder’s role.

But I do think BP’s whole basis for assumption is correct. Outs are the one, the only thing that you do not want to make as a hitter or baserunner. Outs are precious and limited…after all, it is the goal of the defense/pitcher to get you out. If you can keep from doing that too much, you’ll be a successful player IMO.

By kirknga

October 26, 2008 7:26 PM | Link to this

BravesFanInRockies,

My point was that I didn’t agree with a blanket condemnation of the stolen base. I don’t believe the Braves have much speed, certainly not enough to feature the stolen base as they once did.

Of course with McCann’s high success rate we should let him loose a bit more perhaps!

N Nine, don’t let yourself fall into the Peavy-or-bust trap. He is not the only option, just the only one we’ve heard about. I refuse to believe that Peavy and Peavy alone is the Braves savior for next season.

By kirknga

October 26, 2008 7:31 PM | Link to this

McFann I have to say it’s fun watching McCann on base.

What team was it that he ran the bases and “brought the pain” as someone called it?

By David O'Brien

October 26, 2008 7:32 PM | Link to this

Here’s what happens after the introduce the fan-voting element as part of the Hank Aaron Award: This year’s winners, Kevin Youkilis in the AL and Aramis Ramirez in the NL.

This was an award that in previous years was strictly statistically based. If it were still, Pujols would be the NL winner and someone other than Youkilis would be the AL winner.

Oh, well. Expect to see plenty of winners from Boston and Chicago’s North Side, at least as long as the Cubs are winning.

By Brian

October 26, 2008 7:40 PM | Link to this

BravesFanInRockies- I realize your comment wasn’t at me, but can I be rude and jump in? Thanks! Well, it is not a Peavy or bust thing but to get this guy cheap for 4 years when we all know damn well CC,and maybe Burnett will be too much, I can predict right now it’ll be a move that will haunt the Braves and us fans for years if Wren doesn’t pull off that trade!!

By BravesFanInRockies

October 26, 2008 7:41 PM | Link to this

I haven’t drunk the Peavy-or-else Kool-Aid either. I’d love to see him with the Braves for the right price. But if that deal doesn’t happen, I could see others being made, perhaps with the Dodgers or the Rays.

Problem is, Peavy looks like a sure bet, the Padres may be motivated to deal him this offseason than next (they’ll get more for him now), and the trades you’d make with other teams would likely be for young ML veterans or prospects who could excel like Jurrjens or might just be average.

By N Nine

October 26, 2008 7:43 PM | Link to this

Kirknga

Ok, I admit i have Peavy fever! A true proven ace in his prime is hard to come by. If Peavy was on a successful team with that type of contract, no way he would be offered. To me there is no other ACE that is available in Peavy’s territory. If you feel other way name me a player(s) that fits an ace for years to come..i’m open

Note: I will not accept A.J Burnett as an answer.

By kirknga

October 26, 2008 7:44 PM | Link to this

*Steve from OH *

I don’t argue with BP’s outs are more valuable than bases” thesis(though it feels more like a political soundbite than sound baseball).

I believe that speed is a weapon when used and used properly. BP concedes as much when they list situation where they believe stealing is appropriate.

By Brian

October 26, 2008 7:44 PM | Link to this

BravesFanInRockies- Sorry man! That’s the second time I’ve done that.

kirknga- You tha man I was callin out!

By McFann O –[brr!]

October 26, 2008 7:55 PM | Link to this

Kirknga—

It’s a blast to watch him on base! I only wish we coulda seen him on one more time on 9/28…

But yeah, they oughta let him loose a lot more! Although, the pitchers and catchers might start to catch on…course there were a few times when the pitcher would throw back to first more than once when he was over there!

What team was it that he ran the bases and “brought the pain” as someone called it?

Haha! That Arizona! August 9: BMac hit a bases loaded single, and was taking second on the throw home…then the pitcher threw to second to try to nab him, but Mac ran into O. Hudson’s empty glove—that broke Hudson’s wrist and he was out for the season…kinda feel bad about that…Anyway: So McCann was at second, and when our next batter came up, Mac took off for third, and the pitcher tried to pick him off. (McCann prob’ly woulda been out if the pitcher hadn’t thrown it away) But the third baseman was in McCann’s path, and the two had a mini-collision—their guy was down (he was fine), the ball was somewhere in the outfield, so McCann came on home. That’s when we were sayin’, “Their catcher better look out!”

Aahh-ha…but you just asked what team it was against…not “What team was that? And tell us all about it!”

Sorry about that! I get carried away!

8 )

By David O'Brien

October 26, 2008 7:56 PM | Link to this

No doubt about it, Joe Maddon is one of the most quotable figures in sports. Dude is seriously funny.

He was asked about notoriously rough Philly fans (by the way, did you guys hear them chanting “E-va” when Evan Longoria came to bat last night?) and whether he gets rattled by them or if he gets a chuckle out of it.

Maddon is from a town about an hour or so outside Philly, but that didn’t stop some fans from throwing mustard packets at his granddaughter last night.

Anyway, here’s what he said about the fans: “I think it’s really humorous, actually. Down by the dugout I had a good time with a bunch of guys sitting up in the stands. I was giving a guy a hard time for drinking Coors Light in Philadelphia.

“We went back and forth with that, and I said, ‘Where’s the Schmidt’s? At least some Rolling Rock. Don’t be going with Coors Light.’ It’s so unfashionable for a Philly dude.

“I was all over him about that, so we had a good time. I mean really, the biggest part is just the families. If we could do something about that — throwing mustard packets at my granddaughter is not very cool. The other part, I’m good with.

“If you want to be vociferous with us, I’m fine with that. If you want to have arguments about the Coors Light versus Rolling Rock, I’m good. But leave the families alone.”

Priceless.

By McFann O –[brr!]

October 26, 2008 7:59 PM | Link to this

Deep Throat The risk of stealing bases is simply not worth it. The damage done by a caught stealing far outweighs the benefits of a stolen base.

PLEASE tell that to all the teams the Braves will be facing in 2009!

; )

By N Nine

October 26, 2008 8:06 PM | Link to this

If Rays win Joe Maddon needs to start a video game series. Have Maddon crack random jokes during at bats..Maddon Baseball 2010

By kirknga

October 26, 2008 8:09 PM | Link to this

LOL..Brian I guess I’ll just consider myself called-out then!

Look, it’s about pitching, not Peavy. The Braves need to improve their starting pitching, more innings, better quality than what they got from starters this past season.

I’m not denying Peavy is more payroll friendly than Sabathia, but that is still no reason to believe he alone is the answer.

N Nine, As I said the other day, we are all just fans and we don’t know who all is available and who isn’t. A month ago people here laughed at the idea that the Braves could get Peavy.

If you want to believe that Peavy is the only quality starter that will become available in all of baseball this entire offseason then , well, ok. I’m not buying it.

I don’t know what your deal is with Burnett, but I think he’d look just fine in the rotation along with Peavy.

By N Nine

October 26, 2008 8:18 PM | Link to this

i rest my case kirknga, A.J. is not the answer as the ACE for years to come. I’m fine with Peavy along with A.J. no doubt.

By David O'Brien

October 26, 2008 8:25 PM | Link to this

N Nine, I’m seated next to a Milwaukee writer and just showed that note you posted about the Brewers’ rumored interest in Peavy. He said he doubted it, because he thinks the Brewers will try to re-sign Sabathia and avoid both giving up talent in a trade for Peavy and the injury risk.

The figure I’m hearing that Milwaukee might offer CC? $100 mill for four years. They’re hoping that by going with fewer years and more per year, they can keep him. He’s indicated to friends a serious interest in staying there, he liked it so much.

The Brewers might help their chances of signing him if they pick up the option on Cameron, who’s a good friend of CC’s.

By kirknga

October 26, 2008 8:25 PM | Link to this

It’s ok McFann, that trip around the bases is one of my highlites of the season!

And I also agree that we might be better off discouraging other teams from attempting to steal. :)

By David O'Brien

October 26, 2008 8:35 PM | Link to this

Here in the swing state of Penn., with Blanton pitching for the Phillies, I just saw a fan holding up the inevitable sign: “Joe the Pitcher”

By kirknga

October 26, 2008 8:36 PM | Link to this

N Nine, isn’t it about asking can whichever player improve the Braves or not?

I think AJ Burnett can be an ace, he certainly is an improvement.The Braves could get by with two #2 types that give them lots of innings, I believe.

I just hate to see folks get so caught up with Peavy that they will be overly disappointed should the Braves not acquire him.

By KZ Krazy

October 26, 2008 8:37 PM | Link to this

I’ve never quite understood the hero worship of John Smoltz in this town.

An above average pitcher to be sure. But a whiny, self-serving, hypocrite for the most part.

I’m glad there are a few other posters who can see through his latest negotiating ploy.

By McFann O –[brr!]

October 26, 2008 8:38 PM | Link to this

Kirknga—

I agree. I should have included it in my Top Ten Moments of 2008, but I think it was the season-ending injury that kept it off…

I’m hoping McCann himself cann start discouraging other teams from stealing with much-improved defense in ‘09. I gathered from some of his quotes that he’ll be addressing that in the off-season.

Here’s hoping it works!

By Jake

October 26, 2008 8:40 PM | Link to this

I hope the Rays pull it out today, I really don’t want to see another philly team win today.

On another note I actually called that the philly fans were probably going to try to insult Longoria by calling him Eva. I said it to a friend during the rain delay. I just didn’t know they would all chant it in unison. Philly fans, no words can describe. I’m still trying to figure out how that’s an insult. It didn’t seem to bother Tony Parker to much.

By kirknga

October 26, 2008 8:43 PM | Link to this

Good for the Brewers if that is what they end up offering Sabathia. It may not be enough, but at least they didn’t just give up, not even try.

Wow, the Brewers can afford to pay a guy $25 million/year but the Braves can’t/won’t?

By David O'Brien

October 26, 2008 8:47 PM | Link to this

“An above average pitcher to be sure.” KZ Krazy

You think? Now don’t go out on a limb or anything.

“Above average pitcher?”

So, you think he’s going to be elected to the Hall of Fame, this above-average pitcher?

By Greg in TN

October 26, 2008 8:48 PM | Link to this

Evening denizens…

Crucial game tonight for the lads of the Gulf Coast as they really can’t paint themselves in the corner by dropping tonight’s game then face Cole Hamels in a potential elimination game at the Phillie wiffleball field.

Ryan Howard’s homer last night has to be an ominous sign for the Rays but ironically enough, a team known for blistering the hide off of baseballs win late on a little dribbler from Ruiz.

Huge blown call there by Tim Welke, but agree with McCarver (I’m wincing at having to type that), Sonnenstine could have been out of the inning there by starting the double play.

By Jake

October 26, 2008 8:49 PM | Link to this

Wow, I thought he could have gotten the double play. Regardless of the fact Rollins was out. Philly is catching all the breaks today. For the whole series the umping has been kind of so so.

By Tomas

October 26, 2008 8:51 PM | Link to this

What is up with this umpires. I wouldn’t be surprised if in a couple a years mlb would start using replay for every play, not only homers. Of course they’d have to make a sistem to try and not delay the games too much.

By B-RITT

October 26, 2008 8:52 PM | Link to this

DOB Just wanted to say that I love reading your blogs, the flat and straight-forward tone really appeals to me (and the way you respond to stupid posts makes me laugh) Anyway, I dont see why some think that the 09 Braves cant contend, we lost 3 major pieces this past season that ruined our chances, but 1-2 pieces this season could push this team over the top. A big right handed bat behind McCann and (on a 1-10) a 6 to 7 pitcher could make the Bravos a 85-90 win club.
Specifically (for my 6 to 7) AJ Burnett catches my eye(he may even be an 8), hes a proven vet, a high strikeout guy, and Chipper likes him. I would rather see him at a slightly higher price than Peavy for the farm.

By McFann O –[brr!]

October 26, 2008 8:54 PM | Link to this

So Utley was out at home…He didn’t toss an elbow to Navarro’s face, did he?

By braves n dawgs

October 26, 2008 8:57 PM | Link to this

dave, does that play blown call on the longoria tag not scream “expand instant replay in baseball”? i understand the concern of “if we do that where do we draw the line?” but we have already taken that first step with home runs. instant replay can distinguish a home run just as clearly as it can distinguish a tag. i know different umpires have different strike zones, so can we not expand replay and say balls and strikes are, and forever will remain, off limits? i think blowing calls like that are unacceptable, especially in the world series, and should our goal not be to remove the human error/luck factor as much as possible to maintain the highest level of honest, untainted competition?

By McFann O –[brr!]

October 26, 2008 9:02 PM | Link to this

Dang…That Extreme Makeover: Home Edition was really good!

By Greg in TN

October 26, 2008 9:07 PM | Link to this

Two solid innings of work from Joe the pitcher so far. Nice zip on the fastball and he really has a good breaking ball tonight.

By KZ Krazy

October 26, 2008 9:09 PM | Link to this

Smoltz will be a first ballot Hall of Famer—if you have a vote and are still the Braves beat writer.

The Braves can also look forward to a first place prediction by you in the N.L. East as long as you are the beat writer.

By David O'Brien

October 26, 2008 9:10 PM | Link to this

There’s a story in the Philly Inquirer today about Shane Victorino’s 40 family members who flew from Hawaii and Alaska to be here for the World Series. And there’s a picture of his mom and dad at the ballpark before Game 3 Saturday.

And in the picture, his dad, Mike Victorino, is wearing a zip-up collared shirt with a little logo over the left breast. And the logo?

The Georgia Aquarium. No explanation to give you, just telling you it’s a Georgia Aquarium shirt. On a guy from Hawaii whose son plays for the Phillies.

Go figure.

Maybe they came to Atlanta for one of the Phillies’ sweeps this season. Ouch.

By Anders

October 26, 2008 9:15 PM | Link to this

DOB

In today’s NY Daily News Bill Madden reported that there’s he’s heard that the Brewers are a little nervous about the money Fielder will be due in arbitration this year as he continues to grow in size. He’s one of the guys they were talking about for Peavy. Peavy aside can you check with the Milwaukee writer to get his take on the Brewers thoughts on the “Prince of Vegans”?

Thanks.

By David O'Brien

October 26, 2008 9:16 PM | Link to this

braves n dawgs: these are questions for which there are no easy answers, questions that will haunt us forever.

By braves n dawgs

October 26, 2008 9:19 PM | Link to this

right KZ Krazy, DOB will be the difference in whether smoltz is a first ballot hall of famer. he alone will put smoltz in the hall of fame, not the fact that there are hundreds of other sports writers and journalists across the country who would also have to vote for him…. nope just david obrien. he decides all.

By Anders

October 26, 2008 9:23 PM | Link to this

KZ Krazy

I’m a huge Met fan and even I think your take on Smoltz couldn’t be more off. Smoltz is in a handful of premier big game pitchers. As I’ve said on here many times. In a game 7 he’s one of maybe 3 guys I would want taking the hill in my lifetime. The others? - Bob Gibson and Jack Morris.

Maybe this is a negotiation ploy. So what? He’s entitled. He’s left plenty on the table. That said, it doesn’t diminish his HOF career.

The wheels are about to come off for the Rays. At least it feels that way to me.

By MattyO

October 26, 2008 9:27 PM | Link to this

I’ve also had mustard packets thrown at me at a game, up at Fenway for cheering for the Braves. Never at Shea though, just peanuts. I guess I’ll know what to expect if I ever go to Philly.

By David O'Brien

October 26, 2008 9:30 PM | Link to this

Check out this story by Joe Sherman in the NY Post, particularly the last few graphs:

By Joel Sherman / NY Post

PHILADELPHIA - Last off season the Yankees refused to include Phil Hughes in a package for Johan Santana.

Hughes made that decision look horrendous during the season, and isn’t stopping now.

It is not just that two of his four starts in the Arizona Fall League have been poor, including Friday night’s Rising Stars showcase game. But scouts who have watched him in the AFL say Hughes’ delivery, command and array of stuff have not been impressive.

He started the Rising Stars game and permitted four runs (one earned) in three innings, allowing two homers and walking two. One scout who has seen multiple starts in the AFL by Hughes offered this report from the Rising Stars game:

“His velocity was fine. He threw some at 93-94 (mph), but mostly he was in the low 90s, but the problem was that they were straight. He gave up two bombs and even the outs were mostly hard hit. He couldn’t command his fastball to the corners at all. Only about half his curves were good and only about one in four were in the strike zone. He is working to add that changeup (to use against lefties), threw three and all were up and out of the zone.

“I think the problem is that his elbow is too low so he is not commanding because he is not throwing downhill. His command stinks because his motion stinks. For example, his curve has good rotation and break, but I think because of that delivery it breaks early and so hitters pick it up.”

There were many reasons that Yankees GM Brian Cashman advised against making a Santana deal last season, notably having to give up prospects and award Santana a record contract. But central to his thinking was that he did not want to surrender Hughes, whom he has envisioned being a cost-effective, homegrown, top-of-the-rotation stalwart.

But Hughes has not been able to stay consistently healthy, and this season when he did pitch it was not particularly well: 0-4, 6.62 ERA in the majors; 1-0, 5.90 ERA in six Triple-A starts; and now the AFL issues.

The pitcher who started against Hughes in the Rising Stars game was Atlanta’s Tommy Hanson, who is a key figure in ongoing trade discussions about San Diego ace Jake Peavy. Braves GM Frank Wren has vowed that he will not trade the organization’s top prospects, and Hanson is certainly in that class.

Three Padres officials, including director of pro and international scouting Randy Smith, watched Hanson dominate the Rising Stars game: Three no-hit innings with seven strikeouts.

A scout in attendance claimed Hughes is not in the same league as Hanson, saying about the 22-year-old righty: “He is at least a number two starter. He has plus stuff and plus command. He throws his fastball 90-94 (mph), but smartly adds in two-seamers at 89-90. He has a plus slider and a plus curveball. He mixes his pitches well. He has poise. He has smarts. He puts the ball where he wants. To me the Braves have no choice, he should be in their rotation next year.”

By Greg in TN

October 26, 2008 9:32 PM | Link to this

Sonnanstine is really putting himself in bad situations by falling behind batters. A lot of 3-ball counts to Phillie batters and yet, he only trails by two.

By David O'Brien

October 26, 2008 9:34 PM | Link to this

On this date in history:

1996 After two one-sided losses at home, the Yankees win the next four games and take their first World Series since 1978 with a 3-2 victory over the defending World Series champion Braves in Game 6.

1997 With two outs in the bottom of the 11th inning of World Series Game 7, Edgar Renteria singles home Mark Counsell to give the Marlins their first World Series title with a 3-2 win over Cleveland. Marlins are youngest expansion team to win the Fall Classic.

By Deep Throat

October 26, 2008 9:36 PM | Link to this

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution doesn’t allow its writers to vote in the baseball Hall of Fame voting last I heard.

By David O'Brien

October 26, 2008 9:38 PM | Link to this

Crawford homer. That one snuck over, just kept carrying. Crowd was a little stunned by that one.

By kirknga

October 26, 2008 9:39 PM | Link to this

That Crawford is a real gamer.

By David O'Brien

October 26, 2008 9:43 PM | Link to this

Anders, I’m told they are indeed concerned/nervous about Prince’s girth, and even though he’s “only” going to make about $7 mill in arb the first time, they will consider trading him this winter.

However, the Peavy thing makes no sense at all. By that I mean, the Padres want to trim payroll, and right now they’ve got an outstanding all-around, slugging 1B in Adrian Gonzalez, who is signed to a reasonable contract, is 10 times the defensive player that Fielder is, and also quite a good hitter.

That’s one of the positions where the Padres are all set, at first base.

By Jake

October 26, 2008 9:44 PM | Link to this

That’s the first time i’ve seen a jam shot home run. Rays are kinda shooting themselves in the foot so far. They could be up 1-0 but at least they know how to do damage control. Could be a lot worse. I don’t even know why they would throw Howard a fastball. He’s been getting out on breaking balls and they groove him two fastballs down the middle two nights in a row. They are lucky he didn’t park it in the seats.

By Anders

October 26, 2008 9:45 PM | Link to this

DOB

That article by Joel Sherman outlines exactly why I think the Yanks will try and buy every FA they can and trade for others. This is not the off season to be shopping for pitching. Prices will be high with the Yanks desperate after passing on Santana, Pettite basically done, Wang coming off injury, Mussina happy to be hitting the Home Depot once a week and Joba showing signs of the “reservation” disease.

By Braveheart

October 26, 2008 9:47 PM | Link to this

N Nine, don’t let yourself fall into the Peavy-or-bust trap. He is not the only option, just the only one we’ve heard about. I refuse to believe that Peavy and Peavy alone is the Braves savior for next season.

I don’t think he would have to be “the savior”. But he would be key to building forward momentum. I look at the Mets in 2004. They won like 71 games. They signed Beltran and Martinez and got some forward momentum going on the field and in the ticket booth. They won 83 the next year and then 96 the year after that.

It’s not the best example because Martinez didn’t actually make it all the way to the top with the rest of them because of Injury (something we can’t really afford like the Mets can) but I believe he was important at the time in changing their losing culture and buying them some time until the kids could grow and they could get some other valuable guys. It also bought them credibility with fans that they were really trying ——- which, in turn, made them more money that they could use to get better players

I don’t care if the Braves win 90 next year. I just want to see them build some forward momentum. It has felt like they have been slowly sliding downhill since the 1999 World Series and finally just fell off the cliff this year.

By McFann O –[brr!]

October 26, 2008 9:48 PM | Link to this

DOB No explanation to give you, just telling you it’s a Georgia Aquarium shirt. On a guy from Hawaii whose son plays for the Phillies.

Innnnt’resting…

I’ll hafta tell my Dad that one. He’s a volunteer down there.

Maybe they came to Atlanta for one of the Phillies’ sweeps this season. Ouch.

That could be…it’s prob’ly an “In your face! My team rocks, your team couldn’t hit the side of a barn!” thing.

Sorry…

By David O'Brien

October 26, 2008 9:49 PM | Link to this

KZ Krazy: Even if the Braves get Peavy, I can’t see picking against the Phillies in the NL East next year, not when they’ve basicallly got everyone coming back except Burrell.

They’ve got a great core of players under contract. They’re the team to beat. And unless the Braves get two stellar starting pitchers and a really good outfield addition, I can’t see picking them ahead of the Mets, either.

Then there are the Marlins. Just don’t know what they’ll do this winter, if they’ll keep all or most of their arb-eligibles. Right now, I’d have them or the Braves third in the East.

That said, there’s no reason the Braves can’t compete if they fill all their needs and stay healthy. But those are two very big “ifs.” Phils are the team to beat in the division until someone else proves otherwise.

By David O'Brien

October 26, 2008 9:51 PM | Link to this

Like I said, if the big boy gets hot, the Rays have a very tough task. And it would appear that Mr. Howard is warming up.

Opposite-field three-run BOMB.

By Anders

October 26, 2008 9:52 PM | Link to this

DOB

Thanks for the info on Fielder. I agree 100% on the Peavy part. Doesn’t make sense on a lot of fronts.

As for Fielder, I’ve always been amazed at how he’s allowed to swing from his heels over and over. There was a day when one swing like that would have invited an ear knock. Ah well, a different time. (To be fair the same could be said for the Mets after HR celebrations)

Wow, Howard just hit one of his “flairs ” out to left.Well, with this series all but over others here might want to switch over to ESPN and see an LI local product true freshman quarterback leading UCF over Tulsa in the first half. Doubtful they will hold on, but fun to watch. I actually coached that quarterback in little league baseball some years back. Best natural athlete I ever had.

By David O'Brien

October 26, 2008 9:58 PM | Link to this

OK, it’s starting to look inevitable. That defensive carom was too perfect, too easy. 1-5-3, no problem.

By McFann O –[brr!]

October 26, 2008 10:07 PM | Link to this

The Rays need to get their butts in gear and stop acting like the Team From The Ted.

Ah well. Gotta shut down. Got up early this mo’nin’ and we’re beat. See ya ‘round! Night, all.

By Joe the Pitcher

October 26, 2008 10:07 PM | Link to this

Where is your DH now?

By McFann O –[brr!]

October 26, 2008 10:08 PM | Link to this

Good lord, Lorn! Their freakin’ pitcher hit one out??

Ugh…this is bad…really really bad.

OK. Really. I’m outta here!

By David O'Brien

October 26, 2008 10:09 PM | Link to this

You’ve got to be kidding me. Joe Blanton goes yard in the World Series.

Looks like we’re gonna have Hamels facing the Rays in Game 5 at Philly. It’s set up too well for the Phillies to finish it off — which means it’ll probably end up being the worst game Hamels has pitched since he faced the Braves, and the Series will head back to St. Pete.

By Steve from OH

October 26, 2008 10:17 PM | Link to this

Kirknga, there’s no doubt that stolen bases are a valuable tool when used in the appropriate situations. That’s why I like Anderson as a 4th outfielder/pinch runner type guy—for when a stolen base is appropriate late in games and such. I don’t think there are enough good situations for a stolen base to justify starting him every day. And besides, every scouting report I’ve read on Schafer says he’s a burner on the basepaths so this might be a moot discussion anyway!

DOB, nice article on my man Hanson. The man dominated a lineup of the elite prospects in the game. That’s gotta count for something…

By Jake

October 26, 2008 10:28 PM | Link to this

Longoria has shown that he’s still a rookie. No hits in the World Series and swinging for the fences every at bat. He’s not the only one. The only one i’ve really seen make adjustments is Upton. It’s amazing they have won a game with their 3 and 4 hitters batting 0 for the series. I don’t think its over though even if they lose tonight. The hardest game to win is the last one and as good as Cole Hamels has been this postseason I think the Rays have a shot against him.

By dgd

October 26, 2008 10:29 PM | Link to this

Though the sentiment on this blog is solidly pro-Rays, have to say I’m rooting for the Phils. Lived around the block from Dave Cash when he was the Phillies’ second baseman in the ’70s (back in the day when baseball players lived in middle class neighborhoods). When the Phils won in ‘80, I was co-sports editor of my college paper, the North Texas Daily, in Denton Texas and cleaned up on bets w/fellow newspaper types (they beat the Astros in an epic Division series). All of those pitchers of beer were doubly sweet…

By kirknga

October 26, 2008 10:31 PM | Link to this

Braveheart, I agree with you, I want to see thr Braves make progress, I want them to contend.I want to see Jake Peavy in our rotation next season.

But I’m not buying into the notion that Peavy is our only option to improve our rotation as some have suggested.

I don’t think your Met example translates to the braves because Beltran and Martinez were big money free agents and apparently the Braves aren’t willing to improve the team by signing those type of top of the market players.

The Mets also took on Delgado’s big contract too and we’ll see if that type of thing is an option with the Braves.

By David O'Brien

October 26, 2008 10:33 PM | Link to this

The two middle-of-the-order Rays we mentioned in the original blog, Longoria and Pena, are now 1-for-40 with 16 strikeouts in the past six games, including the last two games of the ALCS and four in the World Series.

That after the two combined for seven homers and 13 RBI in Games 2-5 of the ALCS.

By Tim McCarver (I caught Bob Gibson you know)

October 26, 2008 10:34 PM | Link to this

Can’t believe Ken Rosenthall just told the story about Jamie Moyer shting the bed twice on Friday night with a stomach virus** Geesh, is anything private these days?

By Utlimate Braves Homer Fan

October 26, 2008 10:40 PM | Link to this

The Phillies are a phluke this year. They won’t win anything in ‘09 other then last place. Hamells will have a losing record, Howerd will be lucky to hit 25 homers, Chase UGLY will not hit nearly like he did this year, and whoever their closer is will revert to his old self, when he stunk?

Braves will run away with this division, the NL east, next year, if they get 2 starting pitchers or not. Matt Diaz is fine in LF, he can hit homers with a blindfolded. DO you think that Jeff Francor is going to play next year like he did this year??? No he wont, he’s from Parkview and is better than that. NL MVP in 09 is Jeff Francore and Jairr Ju whateverhisnameis will win 20 games and the Cy Young award for the best pitcher in the league. Can he win the rookie of the League too or is that for this year?

DOB do you think the Braves will trade for Jake Peavy??? WHat’s taking them solong?!?!??! What if they dont, then who will Scherholz trade for?

By Anders

October 26, 2008 10:42 PM | Link to this

Timmy Mac

I believe they were referring only to his excessive sweating. They did mention a stomach problem but I’m sure they weren’t intimating complete loss of bowel control.

Thanks for the viual though.

By David O'Brien

October 26, 2008 10:48 PM | Link to this

OK, gotta say that (10:40) was funny.

By David O'Brien

October 26, 2008 10:51 PM | Link to this

Hard to believe Blanton’s was the first home run by a pitcher in a World Series game since 1974.

But then again, the kind of pitchers who are toeing the slab in the World Series aren’t supposed to give up homers to fellow pitchers, I reckon.

By K8

October 26, 2008 10:55 PM | Link to this

I’d like to congratulate you on your recent inaugeration! If you don’t have a black velvet bag to carry your gavel in, I’ll stitch you one up…

By Efrim

October 26, 2008 10:59 PM | Link to this

How can you not laugh after reading that 10:40? Good stuff.

Pretty crazy that the Phillies may win this thing. Where did Ryan Madsen come from? Dude used to never have good command of that change-up. “Bridge to Lidge” indeed.

DOB- Nice article you posted. Gotta love hearing Hanson outshined Hughes. Even if it was just an AFL rising stars game…

By David O'Brien

October 26, 2008 11:01 PM | Link to this

Tim Mc, I think you drove everyone away with that rather revolting comment.

By Marc

October 26, 2008 11:14 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Have you heard anything about the Braves and Greg Norton for next season? I’d love to have him back…

Also, given these ridiculous numbers Tommy Hanson is putting up and the acclaim he’s receiving from people who are in the baseball know, would you trade him? I don’t think you can. This has the makings of being a once-in-a-decade type of player in the Braves’ hands.

By Sports Announcers Hall of Shame

October 26, 2008 11:14 PM | Link to this

We are proud to announce that Tim McCarver and Chip Caray have been formally inducted into our group. We now pray to God that this duo never announce a game together.

By DAP

October 26, 2008 11:18 PM | Link to this

i have to say, the phillies are playing much better than i expected them to.

when howard is hot, and rollins is getting on base, they are really tuff.

well, im excited to get the offseason started anyways. cant wait to see what wren does to make the team competitive.

By David O'Brien

October 26, 2008 11:24 PM | Link to this

Marc, I think Frank Wren has made it pretty clear the Braves aren’t going to trade Hanson.

Would I trade him? No. I say that without having seen him pitch, but froma all accounts he’s a seriously talented top-of-the-rotation starter in the future, and very possibly a member of the rotation as soon as the spring.

You just can’t trade away pitchers like that, who are that close to the majors and have that kind of talent, especially not when you’re a team with any sort of budget restrictions and a team that hasn’t developed and kept a top-of-the-line starter for quite some time.

Hanson, Heyward and Teheran, I wouldn’t trade. Freeman, Schafer and Gorkys, I’d be very reluctant to deal.

By Tim McCarver (I caught Bob Gibson you know)

October 26, 2008 11:27 PM | Link to this

Will Jamie Moyer pitch again in the World Series?

It DEPENDS Ha Ha

By Jake

October 26, 2008 11:28 PM | Link to this

If the Phillies win this thing it will be because of a series of fortunate events( in comparison to the Braves who starred in a series of unfortuante events). They could very well thank the braves for helping them get into the playoffs. It’s not often that a team can’t win a single home against another team in their division but the braves managed to pull it off. That sweep started with one game where Kelly Johnson made an unfortunate drop and Brad Lidge at the end was fortunate enough to escape with a save on the arm of Victorino and we all know what he’s done since then. How many games without a blown save?

The Mets managed to fold again and the Brewers were literally down to their last arm when they made the playoffs. In fact its even surprising that C.C. still has an arm left. The dodgers knocked the heavily favored Cubs out which gave Philly the chance to have home field again in a series where both teams had only won at home. Then Tampa Bay goes down to the wire in a series with the reigning World Series champs. Major League Baseball may have wanted the Red Sox in the world series just from a marketing standpoint but I think it’s safe to say that the phillies didn’t mind that they weren’t there. The phillies probably got every draw that they wished for this postseason. I’m not saying the phillies are lucky and didn’t deserve their success, but boy when everything just seems to fall in place like it did for them you gotta figure something is on their side.

By kirknga

October 26, 2008 11:28 PM | Link to this

Well it’s ugly now. It will be interesting to see how much the Rays have left.

By WHS

October 26, 2008 11:34 PM | Link to this

Anyone have the feeling that in a few years from now we might have Smoltz as manager with Glavine as pitching coach and eventually Chipper as batting coach? Wouldn”t that be cool!

By richbrave

October 26, 2008 11:35 PM | Link to this

I make nothing of the story other than the agent wanted to see his name in print and thought it was a slow news day. Whew. Let’s wait and see IF JOHN gets back anywhere. I can’t believe he would bolt for the YANKEES or some other team with high aspirations. I’m sure the BRAVES’ expectations are equally elevated.

By David O'Brien

October 26, 2008 11:40 PM | Link to this

What was it someone was saying a couple days ago about Howard? A “left-handed Andruw Jones?”

Well, hey, look at it this way: Like Howard tonight, Andruw Jones once had two homers and five RBI in a World Series game — in 1996, Game 1 vs. the Yankees. When Andruw was 19.

In case you’re wondering, in 66 postseason games since then, Andruw has a .267 average with seven homers and 25 RBI.

By Jamie Moyer

October 26, 2008 11:42 PM | Link to this

The Rays are really letting it hit the fan.

By David O'Brien

October 26, 2008 11:51 PM | Link to this

The phillies probably got every draw that they wished for this postseason. I’m not saying the phillies are lucky and didn’t deserve their success, but boy when everything just seems to fall in place like it did for them you gotta figure something is on their side.Jake

Dude, they won the division the past two years. They have the past two NL MVPs, Jimmy Rollins and Ryan Howard, who played to their capabilities the past two nights. They have Chase Utley, arguably the best all-around second baseman in the league.

They have one of the game’s best young starting pitchers in Hamels, and the game’s best bullpen, including a closer who hasn’t blown a save all year.

They have a couple of the best unsung players in the league in Werth and Victorino, not to mention Pedro Feliz, who’s a solid role player.

And they have a left fielder, Pat Burrell, who hit 33 homers this season, though he doesn’t have a hit in the World Series.

They are very solid. Nothing flukey about this.

By Ron in mobile

October 26, 2008 11:51 PM | Link to this

How many times did Blanton say “ya know” during that interview?

Im also happy that Ryan Howard is “just gonna take it one game at a time” and “just try to stay within myself”. Not completly generic at all…I mean you just had 5 rbis in the World Series! You dont have anything but cliches?

By Jake

October 27, 2008 12:23 AM | Link to this

Hey DOB I never said it was fluke like what they have done. I’m just saying it doesn’t hurt to have some luck on your side with all that talent. Once again speaking from the viewpoint of someone who just watched his team have some of the worse luck this season in this game of inches I couldn’t help but notice what great fortune the phillies had in terms of injuries this season and just in the games we faced them alone. I’m sure the phillies didn’t mind not facing the cubs or the red sox. Yes they have won the division in back to back years but in neither of those years did they necissarily blow you away and were seen as favorites of any kind to make the world series. I’m not a betting man so I don’t exactly remember the odds for the favorites to make it to the world series but I believe the Cubs were the favorites. The only point i was trying to make is that some years things just all seem to fall in place for a team. That’s no knock on them. The Phillies had very little injuries, a closer down on his luck now returning to his old dominate form,(the Mets folding down the stretch again didn’t hurt), Sheets and Sabathia is better than just Sabathia, and manny and the dodgers instead of the Cubs. This and a combination of Cole Hamels and a lineup that can be lethal on any given night doesn’t hurt.

By Roman Gal

October 27, 2008 12:32 AM | Link to this

I don’t remember anyone posting this last week…so here’s a snippet from an ESPN blog from last Monday.

I watched Atlanta’s Tommy Hanson and Baltimore’s Brian Matusz on consecutive days late last week, and both were very impressive, flashing curveballs that graded out at 70 on the 20-80 scouting scale.

Hanson worked four no-hit innings, with nine strikeouts, touching 94 mph and working effectively with a slider and a change, having no trouble firing one of his other secondary pitches when he was ahead in the count and the hitter was expecting the bender. His changeup has developed into a solid pitch, and his slider has really improved this year, especially now that he is throwing it for strikes.

The bottom line is I expect him to compete for a rotation job in Atlanta next season, and he reminds me a lot of John Lackey.

Jason Grey’s Blog on ESPN

By David O'Brien

October 27, 2008 1:46 AM | Link to this

Jake, you make some valid points. I just thought in your original comment that you were being dismissive of this Philly team’s accomplishment. But I see you weren’t.

By the way, I’d add that if these two teams faced each other a year from now, I think it’d be a different story. Rays just needed a little more experience. Longoria isn’t playing like himself, and neither are some others.

The Rays probably have an more talented team, a better team. But the Phillies have a veteran-laden team with just enough postseason experience.

By TheAntiMe

October 27, 2008 6:40 AM | Link to this

Smoltzie is going to stay a Brave until he hangs ‘em up for good. Of that, I have no doubt. Chipper, on the other hand, might not finish up in a Braves uniform but even he isn’t going anywhere else anytime too soon.

One thing is for certain. Both Smoltzie and Chipper have a place reserved for each of them to become enshrined into the Hall of Fame as Atlanta Braves. Their efforts will always be greatly appreciated by this humble Braves fan.

By Shaun

October 27, 2008 8:51 AM | Link to this

I don’t know if experience is costing the Rays. Possibly.

But the White Sox and Red Sox had more experience and the Rays got past them. Sometimes the more talented team doesn’t win in a short series. If the same teams played another seven-game series next week, maybe the Rays sweep or win in five games.

Obviously a series can only go so long, but the more games played, the better chance the more talented team wins. It’s just the nature of baseball that winning a short series and talent often times aren’t related.

By BA

October 27, 2008 8:56 AM | Link to this

DOB, still catching up on the ‘ole MIB/Braves/Barbeque/McFann and birds/DOB blog, but I have to give props for the part about Nixon/Sanders/Gant. Unfortunately, those three were only in the lineup together a handful of times. I was frustrated about that, coupled with the fact that Justice was mired in an off year. Payed off in ‘93, when Justice went .20/40/120. Not sure what his “vorq” was.

99 steals? 136 tries? Hard to believe nowadays. Then again, how much did Gant/Nixon/Sanders make TOTAL, two million? What’s crazy is I remember wishing (back then) that the Braves would run MORE!

I know it’s 3-1, but I wouldn’t count out Maddon Nation just yet.

DOB, I read earlier from the last blog about Flowers and Freeman, where you said that Freeman is closer to MLB ready than Flowers. Is that because of Freeman’s ridiculously good ‘08 campaign? I thought Myrtle Beach was in between Rome and Mississippi, is it the other way around? If you get bored, maybe you could straighten me out.

I like both players. I think the group of Heyward/Freeman/Flowers/Schafer/Hernandez probably have better raw skills than say guys like Prado/Blanco/Sammons. Unfortunately, barring mass injuries again, I don’t think we’ll see much of any of them before 2010.

Unless they’re in San Diego.

By David O'Brien

October 27, 2008 9:35 AM | Link to this

where was uga-brave and the night crew? must’ve been too much football/partying this weekend for the old man to stay up blogging.

come on, uga-brave. pull your weight.

By McFann O –[brr!]

October 27, 2008 9:48 AM | Link to this

BA the ‘ole MIB/Braves/Barbeque/McFann and birds/DOB blog

LOL. Good one! ; )

We have a little Wren that begs for worms in the winter. He’ll sit on our grill or on of our deck chairs and stare in the window until I feed him. We call him “Beggar Ben”. He started coming in 2006, and he’s been here every winter since.

By McFann O –[brr!]

October 27, 2008 9:53 AM | Link to this

The stupid Fillies won again. Doggonit!

Nothing personal, but…I’m sicka the sight of their faces!

C’mon, Rays! All you gotta do is win these next three! That’s not…uh…too…much…Hmm…

By David O'Brien

October 27, 2008 10:21 AM | Link to this

BA, I probably didn’t express myself well or made the comment in a hurry.

Regardless … Flowers is closer to being ready. Just look at what he’s doing now in the Fall League, and remember he’s already had a big-league camp, and more than held his own for most of it.

Yes, high-A Myrtle is between low-A Rome and Double-A Mississippi.

Freeman had a breakout year, a “ridiculously good” season, as you put it, at Rome.

But Flowers must still be considered closer to being ready for the bigs, simply because of his higher level of experience and his showing in big-league spring training last year, when he made a strong impression early on. And the fact he’s tearing it up now against some high-level prospects in Arizona.

The Braves don’t need either of them to play 1B in the majors right now, because they have Kotchman. A year from now we just don’t know where the two prospects will be, who’ll be coming off a better season and who made the most progress, that kind of thing. Or whether they’ll both still be with the Braves.

But in answer to your question, it would be wrong to suggest Freeman is closer to being ready for the majors. When a guy hasn’t played above low-A yet, he’s still got some development ahead, barring some unexpected emergency situation in which he’s got to be thrust into a major league role.

But I think we could see Flowers in Atlanta at some point this season, that’s how far along he is.

By BA

October 27, 2008 10:28 AM | Link to this

3B ump BLEW that call with Rollins at third base (maybe in the first inning), McFann. Of course, Howard was still going to drill that slider the other way for the three-run job later on. Sonnenstine was consistently behind in the count, either he couldn’t locate his fastball or he had zero confidence in throwing it for strikes.

Blanton, by contrast, looked like a 92 mph Bob Gibson out there, working so fast that people were stepping out, trying to break his rhythm.

And yeah, DOB, the ref in the Falcons game ALSO blew that call. Are these zebras afraid of the generic savage Philly fans? Have you seen these guys in the watering hole with Andy Reid and Charlie Manuel this weekend?

Ryan is the truth. Something like thirty points higher passer rating than Manning the Messiah through his first seven games? If we get the ball back, he was GOING to score. I’m proud the Falcons have restored some competetive dignity to their franchise.

By DAP

October 27, 2008 10:39 AM | Link to this

DOB flowers sounds like a great trade piece to me.

By bp101

October 27, 2008 10:44 AM | Link to this

DOB…just heard that Matt Holliday is available for the right price. Any chance he could be the power hitting left fielder the Braves are looking for?

By McFann O –[brr!]

October 27, 2008 10:45 AM | Link to this

BA—

Yeah, the Rays’ pitcher did not have it. I didn’t see that call at third, but it’s no shocker that it was botched.

Blanton did good, I have to admit. I remember he pitched against the Braves once this year. But he only went two innings because the game went into a one hour, 57 minute rain delay. He gave up tow runs…that game was disgusting, by the way…

By Bruce's Pearl

October 27, 2008 10:45 AM | Link to this

By David O’Brien

October 27, 2008 9:35 AM | Link to this

where was uga-brave and the night crew? must’ve been too much football/partying this weekend for the old man to stay up blogging.

come on, uga-brave. pull your weight.

Its a darn fact your Tennessee bloggers dont have that excuse!

By BA

October 27, 2008 10:54 AM | Link to this

Thanks for the detailed response, DOB. The thing I like about Flowers is the walks, almost as many (98) as K’s (102). If Kotchman keeps grounding out to first, Flowers could be valuable as a platoon 1B/backup to the Heap.

I kept tabs on Heyward/Freeman box scores almost every night, and Freeman virtually went 2 for 4 for three months straight.

I hope they’re all at AA at the start of next year, you know, since it’s the new AAA. And I hope we’re talking Peavy/JJJ/Hanson at the end of the spring for Atlanta. Maybe Campillo and a Garland-caliber #4. Bring back Oh-Man and the Cobra, and the lack of power in the lineup wouldn’t be as glaring. That’s if Hanson doesn’t bomb, of course. Everybody forgets that Charlie Morton was lights out all year at Richmond. Nothings for sure, good stuff or not.

By semiballcoach

October 27, 2008 10:55 AM | Link to this

i would hope that the braves wouldn’t court any of boras’ clients, so hopefully that keeps holliday away….let the other teams overspend for boras’ guys….rather see baldelli or someone like that than dunn or any of the older guys that have been mentioned for left field…as far was smoltz, glavine, and chipper coaching after playing days…they have made way too much money to take that drastic pay cut to be away from their families

By Threadkiller

October 27, 2008 10:58 AM | Link to this

bp, I like Holliday. His Dad is a coach at UGA so maybe he would like playing close to his Dad. However, He is a free agent after next season and he is a Boris client. I think the Rockies will ask for way too much!

By Lew

October 27, 2008 10:59 AM | Link to this

I am so tired of this election season. I wish they would just go ahead and elect Jake Peavy and David Wright and get it over with.

McFann-Last winter, with all the snow we got, I would wake up many mornings to the flock of wild turkeys head butting my glass deck door and a cardinal pecking on the bedroom window, wanting me to come feed them sunflower seeds. One does not argue with 30 or so hungry gobblers. Maybe I need to teach them about Thanksgiving dinner.

By Braveheart

October 27, 2008 11:04 AM | Link to this

Doesn’t feel right without ugabrave in the middle of the night and without scoots with a 6 a.m. post.

Shaun, what I think DOB was saying is that the Rays may look similar to him right now to how the Hurley and Laettner team looked the first time they played UNLV before coming back the next season and slaying the dragon ….. or how Isiah and the Pistons looked against Bird and the Celtics before finally getting past them ….. or how Jordan and the Bulls looked against Isiah and the Pistons before finally getting past them ……

Never seen him play but Flowers kind of reminds me of a future Leyritz …. can hit for average, take a walk, doesn’t really catch that great and isn’t athletic enough to be of much use elsewhere ….. Flowers looks like he might have a little more pop than Leyritz did though ….. I’ve never seen Flowers play though …. just basing that opinion off the feel I get from the stats and what people have said about Flowers thus far …. looks like he may be of more use to an AL team eventually where he can backup at catcher, play a little first and DH …..

By DAP

October 27, 2008 11:11 AM | Link to this

i would not hate getting matt holliday. there are a few problems with it though. one is that he will be a free agent after 2009 and i doubt the braves would resign him. so we would get draft picks and then be in the same situation we are in now, looking for a power hitting LF.

although, if we could get him without giving up hardly anything, like may a couple of low level prospects, which probably isnt going to happen, it would be worth it. give heyward a year at AA and he might be ready in 2010.

if it comes down the being a move that will put hte braves over the top, than youve got to go for holliday. but, until the braves get several pitchers who will keep the braves in every game, getting matt holliday is pointless.

By David O'Brien

October 27, 2008 11:13 AM | Link to this

BA, now that Triple-A Braves are gonna be in Gwinnett County instead of Richmond, you’ll see a lot more top Braves prospects playing at Gwinnett than we’ve seen in recent years at Richmond.

It’s just going to be so convenient, the big-league club can literally call someone from Gwinnett to Atlanta in time for a night game if a major league player gets hurt during batting practice and goes on the DL, or if they have an extra-innings game one night and need to make a pitching move for a game the next day, to add a fresh arm.

By David O'Brien

October 27, 2008 11:17 AM | Link to this

Great front and back pages in the World Series wrap-around section of today’s Philly Daily News.

On the front, a picture of Ryan Howard pointing to the crowd after one of his home runs, with “LOOKS LIKE REIGN” as the banner headline and “Phillies can end our championship drought tonight” as the subhead alongside the picture.

On the back page, there’s a picture of pitcher Joe Blanton in mid-swing, connecting with a pitch for the first home run of his carer. The headline: “JOE THE LUMBER.” Get it?

By David O'Brien

October 27, 2008 11:26 AM | Link to this

Braveheart, your assessment of Flowers is pretty accurate, although he could/should develop not just a little, but significantly more pop than Leyritz. Flowers really is a big dude, and not fat. He’s built like an middle linebacker … or perhaps a D-2 pulling guard.

By Steve from OH

October 27, 2008 11:30 AM | Link to this

DAP:

Flowers seems like prime trade bait. Blocked, good, tons of value. If we get Peavy, I’ll be willing to bet almost anything that he’s in the deal.

By Buffalo NY Braves Fan

October 27, 2008 11:32 AM | Link to this

Good Monday denizens….

just read through the blog from the last couple of days and wanted to share some thoughts.

First, as an Eagles fan, I appologize for the blown call in that game. It was a great game either way and it sucks to have it tainted at the end like that.

Second, Wow…. the phillies look really good right now, and with Hamels pitching tonight I hope DOB has some riot gear handy. Philly will not be a friendly place to be tonight if the Phils pull it off.

Third, on the stolen base argument….. it’s not just about stolen bases and caught stealings. If you have a guy who has the ability to steal 40+ bases a year on first, it distracts the pitcher and the catcher, therefore leading to possibly wildness from the pitcher, or the pitcher grooving one to the hitter. It’s not just about a caught stealing killing a rally, its the presence that the speed brings with it.

Lastly, When is Hansons next AFL start? I want to keep some better tabs on this kid, he does seem VERY special.

By Lew

October 27, 2008 11:34 AM | Link to this

Wow-A double entendre. Headline writers are so clever.

By McFann O –[brr!]

October 27, 2008 11:35 AM | Link to this

Lew—

30 turkeys? Oh no! That’s cool!

Those birds are very smart. They know who feeds them! I think they train us rather than we train them! Course, if they get too pushy, you might want to tell them about Thanksgiving…

I used to have a Carolina Wren, Jenny Girl, who ate out of my hand all the time. She first ate from me on February 18, 2004, and I last saw her on November 21, 2007. Her mate got killed by an Intruder Wren in March 2006, so I’m guessing that’s what happened to her, too. We have a lot of Wrens, and they’re always fighting. Sometimes they’re just playing, though.

By Moby Grape

October 27, 2008 11:43 AM | Link to this

A couple of things I’ve read made me think that Flowers is a fairly decent defensive catcher. Are you saying that is not correct Dave?

By LKS

October 27, 2008 11:50 AM | Link to this

So…a coworker just asked me what I was going to do next year without Escobar (my fave) and I asked him what he was talking about because they were not aloud to announce something like that b4 the World Series was over. He said that he talked to an “insider” that said Escobar is being traded and Peavy Is coming to Atlanta. He said it was pretty much a done deal and they are going to announce it after the WS. I don’t know if there is ANY truth to this (I SURE HOPE NOT) but its just what I heard. I will be crushed if my Escobar leaves. There is NO WAY I will pull for Green. Now we will have 2 frenchies….CANT WAIT! sarcasm

By JackP

October 27, 2008 11:51 AM | Link to this

Hey John! Show some intelligence. Fire your agent and negotiate your own contract. You look like a bozo when you act surprised over what your agent is saying. Wake up!

By David O'Brien

October 27, 2008 11:56 AM | Link to this

Moby Grape: No, that’s not what I’m saying. Flowers is a decent catcher, maybe better than that. He’s pushing the upper limit size-wise for what teams look for in a catcher, but I’ve not heard anything about him not being good enough defensively to play the position in the majors.

Should’ve read Braveheart’s comment closer, now that I’m looking at it again (hey, still early for me, folks, these Series games run late). Braveheart, Flowers is definitely athletic enough to play 1B and probably catch in the majors. He’s not a big stiff, he’s athletic for a big guy.

By Efrim

October 27, 2008 11:57 AM | Link to this

Moby Grape

I have also heard Flowers is OK at catcher. No reason to move him to First base yet if that is the case. OK at Catcher with his bat seems like a Top 100 prospect to me. Big time trade chip.

By Wayne

October 27, 2008 12:01 PM | Link to this

All this talk about Smoltz is much ado about nothing. If John is able to return, I believe that he and the Braves will find an appropriate $$ amount that will make both sides happy.

To heck with Jake Peavy, lets trade Escobar to Cincy for Ryan Freel!

:-)

By Lew

October 27, 2008 12:31 PM | Link to this

Now Wayne-You know it’s really Coco Crisp that we need and not Freel.

By Brian

October 27, 2008 12:45 PM | Link to this

LKS- I was listning to a local talk radio show this morning here in Chatt. and they mentioned a Escobar, Morton and pitching prospect going to the Pads for Peavy. The guy figures it’s just more rumors flyin around and it wasn’t a given but it could be true.

By Lew

October 27, 2008 1:01 PM | Link to this

I could live with that deal for Peavy, but who would we get to play short? I’m not comfortable with any in house options.

By Shaun

October 27, 2008 1:04 PM | Link to this

Braveheart, it’s just that experience is not the first place I’d look as a reason the Rays are down 3-1. Look at this decade alone at how often teams with less experience beat the more experienced team in the Series. The Rays won more games in a better division and a better league plus they beat the more experienced White Sox and Red Sox in the playoffs. Again, I think you’d have to favor the Rays if they were to play another series next week and I think the Rays would win if the two teams played significantly more games. In other words, the best team doesn’t always win short series.

By LKS

October 27, 2008 1:06 PM | Link to this

Brian

I sure hope so. My coworker was lookin at me like he was waitin for me to cry. I kinda wanted to kick him in the shin with the look he was giving me. I told him it was prolly a rumor and he was all high and mighty “OH NO it’s happenin, he is gone” I would love for Escobar not to go anywhere 1. he is my fav player 2. to rub in coworker’s face!!

By BravesFanInRockies

October 27, 2008 1:13 PM | Link to this

Lew and Wayne,

What about Carl Crawford?

By McFann O –[brr!]

October 27, 2008 1:16 PM | Link to this

LKS I kinda wanted to kick him in the shin with the look he was giving me.

Haha! That would have been funny!

I have a cousin that used to always tell me why the Braves and Tech [stink]. Finally I just told him that I didn’t approve of him using that word about my teams. He hasn’t said anything like that since! : )

If Escobar does stay, you should wear an Escobar jersey to work every day!

By ncscoots

October 27, 2008 1:17 PM | Link to this

Braveheart, I usually get those early-morning posts going while waiting for the coffee to brew, and lately the mornings have been a little too hectic, LOL. Besides, other posters here are covering all the subject matter pretty well, I think, therefore no reason for me to poke my schnozz in there.

Although, when I realized an overnight had gone by without Jeff Francoeur being notioned as the root of all evil, I though the blog had broken.

By Big Ears Lillibridge

October 27, 2008 1:25 PM | Link to this

If Escobar was dealt you would almost have to figure Greene would be involved in the trade also. Not that he brings nothing much to the table, but w/o him you are banking on Omar Infante, Lillibridge or Prado as your everyday shortstop. Not much there either.

By McFann O –[brr!]

October 27, 2008 1:28 PM | Link to this

Scoots Although, when I realized an overnight had gone by without Jeff Francoeur being notioned as the root of all evil, I though the blog had broken.

LOL! Good stuff!

By Braveheart

October 27, 2008 1:36 PM | Link to this

Thanks DOB for giving me a better feel on Flowers …..

The reason I question his defensive ability though is that I read somewhere back in the spring that there were questions about his defensive ability ……. and then recently read again the following about him: He also made 12 errors and allowed 11 passed balls, so he’s got some work to do polishing up the defensive skills.

http://www.minorleagueball.com/2008/9/19/617808/prospect-profile-tyler-flo

By StingerSplash

October 27, 2008 1:52 PM | Link to this

If you think Jon Miller and Joe Morgan are bad on TV together (and I do), just wait till you hear them do a World Series game on the radio! A trip to the dentist for a root canal isn’t that excruciating — and I’ve had a root canal, so I know (and just as the doc was hanging up the last instrument and finished, the power went out in the building. All I can say is thank God my old man pulled some strings and got me in to see the top guy on a moment’s notice).

By richbrave

October 27, 2008 1:54 PM | Link to this

BA:

CHARLIE MORTON wasn’t lights out ALL year at RICHMOND, and he didn’t get the number of starts here that was envisioned in the spring(20). He had only 12 and got the rest in the majors with the big club. But MORTON is steady and he learns from instruction and experience something I believe to be distinctly lacking in REYES and BOYER. They’ve both got million-dollar arms, but at this point in their collective careers, they’re exhibiting the old “BULL DURHAM” ten-cent head(or was it five-cent?). MORTON conversely has a million-dollar arm and a million-dollar head at least to this point in his career. Confidence is lacking, and that’s all. If he stays in the ATLANTA rotation throughout the ‘09 season, he’s a 12-13 game winner in the #3 slot in ‘10 - barring injuries of course. You can tell I’m a believer. I’ve see all three first-hand, and MORTON’s the pick of the litter as far as I’m concerned.

By LKS

October 27, 2008 2:05 PM | Link to this

Mcfann

No need to rub his nose in it by wearing the jersey everyday. I have one better! i got Esco to autograph my (his) jersey down at the game in Miami Labor Day and have it framed and hanging in my office. It is Sweet! Sad though that it may be the last autograph I get from him as a brave.

By richbrave

October 27, 2008 2:09 PM | Link to this

BA:

Posted up a long monologue on my man CHARLIE MORTON, but it wandered out into cyberspace. C.M. was NOT lights out ALL of the time he was here in RICHMOND. He improved over 12 starts to the point that he was lights out, but had hills and valleys in between. His confidence and his injury caused his ineffectiveness in ATLANTA unlike REYES and BOYER both of whom march to their own drummers evidently. They certainly don’t need coaches as neither heed their advice nor do they improve with age. I’ve see all three first-hand, and believe CHARLIE to be the only fine-wine in the batch at this point.

By Hammy the Brave

October 27, 2008 2:14 PM | Link to this

DOB,

Do you know if the SF Giants are really shopping Matt Cain, and if FW has talked of going after him? Also, the same question about the Marlins and Ricky Nolasco/Josh Johnson. Or the Reds and Aaron Harang.

I’m just considering backup options, if for some reason we can’t get Peavy. I think it makes a lot of sense for a GM to have several “irons in the fire”, for each type of player they plan to acquire, if their first option dries up.

Also for a RH powerhitting/speed guy, would FW consider trading for Elijah Dukes from Washington? Or does he have too many character concerns(he wouldn’t cost much)?

  Love to hear your input,

   Hammy the Brave

By Wayne

October 27, 2008 2:24 PM | Link to this

Lew If we don’t include Schafer in any deals, then I will freely admit we don’t need my man Freel, or Coco, for that matter. I am usually joking about Freel, but if we send Schafer packing, I am not comfortable with two weak hitting lefty centerfielders. I would say send Blanco to the Reds for Freel, if the Reds are interested.

As for SS, I think if the Peavy thing happens, it will be Escobar and some change. If Greene comes over, I think the Braves will be obliged to play him for a year. If he doesn’t, then I would say that Renteria is a possibility.

Personally, I still would like to see Lillibridge get a full opportunity to play somewhere. I don’t know what happened to him last year in Richmond, unless it was a lingering issue with his hand/wrist or whatever injury it was that he had last winter.

I wouldn’t be unhappy starting the season with Infante and Lillibridge as the SS and utility infielder combo. Add in Prado, a BUC and two outfielders, and that’s your bench. I think it will be either Diaz or Norton, but probably not both. The last backup outfielder would have to have a decent glove; Anderson or Blanco?

I wish this Peavy stuff talk were already concluded. That horse is now a greasy spot in the road. It’s time to get the 2nd starter or LF talk going.

Lots of possibilities.

Come on FW, git er done!

By Wayne

October 27, 2008 2:29 PM | Link to this

Hammy If you (the Braves, that is) are going to go after a head case for the outfield, then why not make an offer for Milton Bradley?

I would steer far from Elijah Dukes.

By Efrim

October 27, 2008 2:34 PM | Link to this

I wish this Peavy stuff talk were already concluded. That horse is now a greasy spot in the road. It’s time to get the 2nd starter or LF talk going.

I think that talk for the LF and 2nd starter will last a while. Probably all the way until December at the winter meetings. And maybe even till Christmas. Peavy? Maybe done by mid November. I sure hope so.

By beekay

October 27, 2008 2:41 PM | Link to this

* Hammy* I live in DC and Dukes is a cancer…no way could he play for Cox. He is the Pacman Jones of baseball

By David O'Brien

October 27, 2008 2:54 PM | Link to this

Braveheart, not to make excuses for Flowers, but it’s possible that those E’s and passed balls were higher because he missed most of the 2007 season behind the plate coming back from knee surgery. He played mostly first base in ‘07 because of that, might have been a bit rusty. But I don’t know. He’s not a Gold Glover by any stretch, but I think with his big bat he’s at least adequate defensively behind the dish….

OK, gonna dig into this roast pork sandwich from DiNic’s. After a couple of hectic days of having to settle for food at the ballpark — buffalo chicken paninis on club level are good — I had a chance to get over to the Reading Terminal today to get lunch. Love DiNic’s.

By Lew

October 27, 2008 3:09 PM | Link to this

BravesFanIn Rockies-Yeah Dude, that’s what I’m saying-an outfield of Freel, Crisp and Crawford. Only problem is that then there’s no room for Baldelli. Have to keep Francoeur as the fourth outfielder.

By McFann O –[brr!]

October 27, 2008 3:12 PM | Link to this

LSK—

That is sweet! If they keep him (they prob’ly will), you cann just show that to your coworker every once in a while and give him an update on Escobar’s stats!

Though you might not want to take my “advice”…gloating has always gotten me nothing but kicks in the pants!

: )

BTW—Got a nature update here: We just saw a live opossum! He was so cute! My sister got some good pictures of him.

Here’s one: (Gotta copy and paste)

file:///Users/Snapshot%202008-10-27%2014-59-19.tiff

I gotta put up pictures of Beggar Ben and Jenny Girl sometime, too.

By Threadkiller

October 27, 2008 3:16 PM | Link to this

Looks like the Marlins are ready to make deals..What would it take to get Uggla? Maybe KJ,Morton, and another mid-level pithing prospect? Let’s get some Offense!!

By TNScott

October 27, 2008 3:20 PM | Link to this

DOBI just heard Buster Olney on ESPN say that Peavy is more likely to be traded to the Dodgers due to the Braves reluctance to part with more prized prospects. Do you think the Padres are trying to up the ante as the old saying goes?

By ncscoots

October 27, 2008 3:21 PM | Link to this

Lew, that OF in your 3:09, and I give up baseball fandom for curling, LOL. Or Australian Rules football. Or something. No chance that I could live and be sane with everyday mentions on the blog of THAT threesome.

By N Nine

October 27, 2008 3:21 PM | Link to this

literally call someone from Gwinnett to Atlanta in time for a night game

This is an interesting change for our city! We as fans can now see our up coming future. The ease of moving players on the roster will be huge. Call ups could happen more often. Like a “Quick” visit to minors for Frenchy. Possible we will see a few at bats from kids, where their only purpose is to help for a day or two. Someone who we would not have seen if in Richmond? I think more teams are catching on to this convenient and smart idea.

By N Nine

October 27, 2008 3:27 PM | Link to this

Big Ears Lillibridge

Hey man, you making fun of my friend? Lol. I like smallbridge. Sure he has no clue how to hit yet but he can fly and pretty solid defense. He is an asset somehow and has some trade value-well Maybe.

By Goober

October 27, 2008 3:28 PM | Link to this

If Smoltz doesn’t like being a free agent, we should trade him or send him to the minors.

By N Nine

October 27, 2008 3:30 PM | Link to this

Threadkiller I agree lets get some offense! but not that trade!!

By N Nine

October 27, 2008 3:34 PM | Link to this

Goober? what? Are the goo dude?

By Goober

October 27, 2008 3:38 PM | Link to this

John Smoltz played as many games in the minors in 2008 as Jeff Francoeur. And Francoeur was actually better than Smoltz when they were recalled. Chrissakes, what is this crazy world coming to?

By Big Ears Lillibridge

October 27, 2008 3:44 PM | Link to this

N Nine Lillibridge may developed into a decent player yet. I have not given up on him either. I do think he has some trade value now, especially on a team that needs a defensive ss.

Goober …. well thought out brilliant plan.

By Goober

October 27, 2008 3:46 PM | Link to this

we’re certainly sensitive to our relationship with the Atlanta Braves.

I can’t imagine Scott Boras being sensitive to his relationship with his own mother.

By DAP

October 27, 2008 3:48 PM | Link to this

the braves need to stick to thier guns when it comes to peavy. even if the pads are trying to put the pressure on by saying the dodgers might get him, wren needs to stay firm.

he could improve this team just as much by trading for duchscherer and harrang, or olsen, or arroyo, or even signing sheets….getting two of those guys i just mentioned and not losing hanson and other good prospects would be better for this team than getting peavy and losing those players.

the braves are a ways from being competitive in the east, and it makes no sense to put a bunch of eggs in one basket.

wren certinly needs to try and get peavy, but do it on his own terms.

By David O'Brien

October 27, 2008 3:53 PM | Link to this

Threadkiller, you’d really trade KJ, Morton and a mid-level prospect for Uggla?

By N Nine

October 27, 2008 4:04 PM | Link to this

DAP Duch and Harrang solid backups-great 2nd pitcher we need

Olsen-slipping-nowhere near Peavy

Arroyo- NO

Sheets-no comment

I do agree with sticking to Wrens terms

I do not agree with Braves a ways away. Are we already giving up on off season? We planned out what braves need. 2 good starters and a solid power hitting outfielder…done. We have players at other positions and we CANN win. Marlins had under 30m payroll last year. We have poss. 40M to spend!!!!!!! Marlins are unloadng while we are bulking up.

By Wayne

October 27, 2008 4:06 PM | Link to this

Scott Boras is sensitive to the almighty dollar!

By Goober

October 27, 2008 4:08 PM | Link to this

Jeff Francoeur working hard in the cages:

Check it out

By DAP

October 27, 2008 4:10 PM | Link to this

you’d really trade KJ, Morton and a mid-level prospect for Uggla?

thats definetly not a good trade, but, i honestly think that if we could get dan uggla, it would make our offense so much better. the reason is because we would have a guy playing 2nd that hits like we want our LF to hit. that means we could offer a short contract to a guy like ibanez, who isnt an offensive monster like dunn, but would be perfect because of the production we are getting from 2nd.

i like KJ alot, and its probably better in the long run to hang onto him, but uggla would help the braves build a dangerous offense.

i would trade uggla for KJ and maybe a decent bullpen arm, like manny acosta.

By Goober

October 27, 2008 4:14 PM | Link to this

Goober? what? Are the goo dude?

Smoltz is a tub of Fu Manchu

By Efrim

October 27, 2008 4:16 PM | Link to this

DOB

What do you think of Josh Willingham?

2006- 277/356/496 (.852 OPS) 573 PA’s

2007- 265/364/463(.827 OPS) 604 PA’s

2008- 254/364/470 (.834 OPS) 416 PA’s

Back injury worries me. But the guy produces.

By DAP

October 27, 2008 4:19 PM | Link to this

N Nine olsen is nowhere near peavy but he has his moments of dominance, and is very young.

arroyo is a pretty decent starter. check his 2nd half in 2008. good stats, and he eats alot of innings. (ps, he had a better year than harang)

sheets is injury riddled but he could be had without giving up hanson, morton, or any of our other young pitchers, which was my point. it would be better to get sheets and see what happens than give up to much for peavy.

stick to your guns, wren.

and no, N Nine, theres no give up here. i agree that two starters, if they are the RIGHT ones, and a power hitting outfielder, and were right back in it…but, id like to over prepare, because the NL east is good, and we will be fighting good teams like the cardinals and astros for the wild card, so we are really gonna have to play well all season and be tuff to win it.

i do think this team is set up potentially to be really good. the bullpen is good, weve got an offense that can be very tough when its clicking…we needsome tuff starter and at least one guy in the lineup that makes it tick.

By N Nine

October 27, 2008 4:21 PM | Link to this

Smoltz is a tub of Fu Manchu

Its safe to say Goo’s probation is over! Oh funny video link, I laughed pretty hard.

By BA

October 27, 2008 4:22 PM | Link to this

I hope you’re right, Richbrave, and Morton is the ultimate “late bloomer”. I think Boyer could be a decent reliever, if he isn’t over used.

I find Reyes to be the most frustrating, because he might have even better stuff than Morton. Early in ‘08 it seemed like he really turned the corner, but the second half was more of the same.

It’s particulary difficult for a longtime Braves fan to be patient with young pitchers that can’t get it together. Never used to have THOSE in the rotation.

By Deep Throat

October 27, 2008 4:23 PM | Link to this

Oh stop already with Dan Uggla. It is not happening, nor should it. The Braves need starting pitchers, a power-hitting left fielder and maybe a left handed relief pitcher. Why should they waste time, money and prospects on a position (second base) they have well taken care of?

By Threadkiller

October 27, 2008 4:26 PM | Link to this

DOB & DAP, That’s what I was thinking! Yes, I would trade those for Uggla. An All-Star who will hit 30 hrs and 100 rbi’s. Sure he strikes out a bunch but look at the upside? He is young and still learning! Also we will have flexability in looking for a LF power bat. We would no longer need to look for a LF who could hit 40 hrs a year! Dave, I would do it in a heart beat!

By DAP

October 27, 2008 4:29 PM | Link to this

for instance, imagine this lineup if we traded for uggla and gave ibanez two years at $7mil per. (this is not taking into account any other trades)

1. shafer

2. escobar

3. chipper

4. uggla

5. mccann

6. ibanez

7. kotchman

8. frenchy

thats a pretty tuff middle of the lineup, (ibanez and uggla add about 55 homers and combine for an .850 OBP) and if frenchy comes back around, you could move him up to make it more lefty/righty.

By BA

October 27, 2008 4:35 PM | Link to this

Yeah, Deep Throat is right, we already have an error-prone streaky second baseman that strikes out too much. No need for Uggla.

Trade Johnson in the Peavy deal. Nitmar at 2B in ‘09. Or Infante, who posseses virtually the same amount of “power” that Johnson does, without the strikeouts and boneheaded errors in the field.

By N Nine

October 27, 2008 4:45 PM | Link to this

id like to over prepare, because the NL east is good DAP

Ok, let’s look at the NLE…Nats are going to lose plenty next year. I’m sure we can agree there…Marlins are a solid young team but are probably facing a dumping crisis…Braves- will get better assuming Wren gets the job done this off season. Some players should do better as they have more experience on the belt.Muts are chokes. They have talent but seem to lose more than win against us. The TED is rough for them. But yes good team/ Phillies- My thinking here is that we can’t do worse! Did we even beat them this year? lol They might win the division but wild card is possible.. I like our chances if we do sign solid players. 2010 could be even better for us..

Interesting you pointed out Arryo’s solid 2nd half. Better option than Garland’s 2nd half so ya not a bad idea DAP.

By DAP

October 27, 2008 4:47 PM | Link to this

deep throat uggla IS a power hitting outfielder-that plays 2nd base. that frees up the outfield for ANOTHER power hitting outfielder. and one that doesnt have to be quite as dominant because uggla is such a force.

in other words, if we get a 2nd baseman who hits like a left fielder, we can get a leftfielder who hits like a 2nd baseman, and we will be improved.

i dont want to trade kelly, or not have him on the team, because im a huge fan, but if the marlins are shopping him, it wouldnt hurt to take a flyer.

By David O'Brien

October 27, 2008 4:53 PM | Link to this

“I love speed. Speed can do a whole lot.”

No, that wasn’t a long-haul truck driver I heard at the Waffle House. It was Charlie Manuel just now in the interview room.

He says he definitely sees speed making a comeback now in the majors, that a lot of the best players — like a couple of Rays — have speed and power.

Anyway….

You guys been catching any of these pregame press conferences on ESPN News or anything (I don’t know, are they even carrying them?) If you can, it’s high entertainment, between the homespun wisdom and the offbeat intellect of Maddon.

Both dudes will run with a question and answer for minutes on end. Manuel just went at least 5 minutes on one question.

By DAP

October 27, 2008 4:53 PM | Link to this

threadkiller uggla is not really that young anymore, but he is in his prime years, and is relativly inexpensive. he wouldnt really be a long term solution, but would be under control for another couple of years i believe. but you dont trade a good 2nd baseman who is several years younger than uggla, and a good young pitcher who has ALOT of upside and potential who is quite a bit younger than uggla for one player in uggla. especially when is mostly a salary dump. KJ and a good reliever would be plenty for uggla.

By Deep Throat

October 27, 2008 4:53 PM | Link to this

Or Infante, who posseses virtually the same amount of “power” that Johnson does, without the strikeouts and boneheaded errors in the field.

What a joke. First off all, the strikeouts are meaningless. Second, Infante is not a good defender (Mark Bowman said as much just today in the Braves’ mailbag on the official site.)

As for power: Omar Infante has 35 homeruns in 1,909 career at-bats. Kelly Johnson has more homeruns (37) in his career in well over 500 less career at-bats…or around a full season’s worth of at-bats. Oh and Infante career slugging percentage is a weenie .391. Johnson’s is about 50 points higher at .440.

Finally, and this is a laugh: Omar Infante’s career OBP is .304…which is LOWER than Jeff Francoeur’s .312 career OBP!

By RC

October 27, 2008 4:54 PM | Link to this

ANY chance that the right handed, left field bat we add could be Matt Holiday? I know the team can’t afford another “Texieria trade”, but considering his contract demands and only one year left, could he be had for as little as one-midlevel pitching prospect? If Charlie Morton would get us Matt Holliday, I’d do that deal. Just not sure what the market for Holliday is like…I’m betting that wouldn’t be nearly enough.

By Original Jon

October 27, 2008 4:54 PM | Link to this

Hey BA Who the heck is Nitmar??

By ncscoots

October 27, 2008 4:59 PM | Link to this

Or Infante, who posseses virtually the same amount of “power” that Johnson does, without the strikeouts and boneheaded errors in the field.

Would that be the same Infante with 10 errors in about 200 chances (KJ with 14 in over 600) and a career OPS of under .700 (KJ at about .800)? That one?

I love Infante on the bench, but that’s his natural spot. Not playing 6 days a week.

By Get Peavy Already!

October 27, 2008 5:00 PM | Link to this

Imagine.. the sports media is mesmerized as the image of Jake Peavy in a Braves’ cap is shown to tens of millions of Americans throughout the day. Wolf Blitzer, stunned and as if in a trance, repeats the words “Amazing, Amazing”.

As television signals stream to websites, the Braves’ site shows Peavy’s location in real time. The local television stations broadcast his every move. The curious flock together and make a trip to see history in the making. Emails with pictures are sent, then forwarded, then forwarded again. YouTube videos go viral and reach tens of millions of views. The Braves becomes the first team in history to trade for Jake Peavy. The trade generates millions upon millions of dollars worth in free publicity, and captures the imagination of America.

By RC

October 27, 2008 5:00 PM | Link to this

Another idea:

Include KJ as part of a Peavy deal. Then, turn around and see what Baltimore wants in exchange for Roberts. Having a true leadoff hitter is something the Braves haven’t had since Furcal in the 2005 season, which was also the last year the Braves made the playoffs. Set the tone at the top of the lineup, and the other pieces have a way of falling into place.

By Threadkiller

October 27, 2008 5:02 PM | Link to this

When pitching is down, Offense will help you through! If I remember correctly, the Okland A’s had a team era close to 5, and won the world series with the bash brothers leading the way. Imagine our line up.

Anderson Escobar Chipper Dunn Uggla McCann Kotchman Frenchy

We could still get Peavy and another starter. The Braves would be the team to beat in the East in 09

By DAP

October 27, 2008 5:03 PM | Link to this

in other words, if we get a 2nd baseman who hits like a left fielder, we can get a leftfielder who hits like a 2nd baseman, and we will be improved.

let me clarify that a little. my point is that if uggla can be gotten, it makes it easier for us to find a left fielder. we wouldnt have to spend as much or trade as many players for an absolute stud outfielder, because uggla would be pickup alot of the slack.

By Steve from OH

October 27, 2008 5:06 PM | Link to this

Kelly J. SLG, 2008: .446

Infante: .416

‘Nuff said. Also, strikeouts=not important, in this argument.

Agree w/ Scoots: the bench is Infante’s natural spot.

By Anders

October 27, 2008 5:11 PM | Link to this

DOB

You’re dead on about Manuel and Maddon. Both are great to listen to. I like that they don’t give the standard baseball speak answers that the likes of Torre give or try to impart some greater knowledge of the game the likes of Larussa emit. Both are down to earth guys that just say it like it is.

I will say that I’m grateful that the cool weather in Philly forces Manuel to wear a jacket during the game. That guy has more unsual lumps coming out of his shirt than you see on a double diamond mogul run!

By DAP

October 27, 2008 5:12 PM | Link to this

RC holliday for morton? no. holliday for b. jones and a mid-level MINOR LEAGUE pitcher? sure. (morton is a major league pitcher now…not a prospect)

By DAP

October 27, 2008 5:15 PM | Link to this

RC roberts would be nice. but thats a one year rental, too. he is seriously good, though.

By BA

October 27, 2008 5:25 PM | Link to this

Deep Throat:

Infante’s career high in hr’s- 16

Johnson’s career high in hr’s- 16

That says it all.

Hey scoots, how many errors would Johnson have had if he had logged time at five different positions? That having been said, I’d prefer to start Nitmar, because Infante IS valuable off the bench (and a better back-up 3B defensively than Prado).

Morton’s right- speed and defense are making a comeback. Enough with Johnson and his “power”. If you can move him for ANY pitching, I’d say that’s preferrable to moving the Mad Cuban.

By Deep Throat

October 27, 2008 5:37 PM | Link to this

That says it all.

No it doesn’t. Not in the least. That is totally disingenuous.

The bottom line on the homeruns between these two is that Kelly Johnson has hit more homeruns in his career than Omar Infante despite the fact that Infante has had like 550 more career at-bats than Johnson.

By N Nine

October 27, 2008 5:38 PM | Link to this

Roberts would be a nice backup, but the Owner has a huge crush on him. won’t happen for us.

By N Nine

October 27, 2008 5:53 PM | Link to this

There are no general managers at this World Series, but the phone lines have been abuzz, and it is no coincidence that so much of the off-the-field pre-winter conversations have revolved around the Braves and Marlins, both of whom are acknowledged to have the mother lode of young talent coming fast to a soon-to-be highly competitive NL East. With the free-agent market not open for business for another couple of weeks, news of the San Diego Padres testing the trade waters for their righthanded ace, Jake Peavy, has baseball’s hot stove smoking furiously. Peavy has listed the Braves, Cubs, Astros, Dodgers and Cardinals as the only teams for which he will waive his no-trade clause. Of them, only the Braves and possibly the Dodgers have the surplus of quality young talent the Padres are looking to get back, and it is highly unlikely they would trade him within their own division. Like the Braves, the Marlins have a bumper crop of young talent just about ready for big league delivery, most notably Southern League MVP first baseman Gaby Sanchez (.404 OBP, 92 RBI), who’s slated to replace Jacobs, and outfielders Curtis Maybin and John Raynor. Olsen figures to bring the biggest return, what with the scarcity of quality starting pitching, while Jacobs has drawn interest from a number of American League clubs, in particular the Kansas City Royals NY Daily news

there you go DAP. Wren’s got your iea!

By N Nine

October 27, 2008 5:56 PM | Link to this

meant Wren might look into your idea..since Olsen will be shopped.

By Goober

October 27, 2008 5:59 PM | Link to this

Not an hour goes by without Deep Throat showing his undying love for all things Kelly Johnson. His man crush on KJ is sadly reaching McFann-esque levels….. Every hour, on the hour, Deep Throat will defend his man’s honor

By BA

October 27, 2008 6:02 PM | Link to this

No, Deep Throat, what’s disingenuous is your infatuation with a 15 homer a year player that’s a butcher in the infield. If you can get anything for him pitching wise, and you have not one but TWO alternatives at 2B that could give you an upgrade defensively and a CONSISTENT offensive threat. Send Johnson and his two good months a year to San Diego.

He’s never hitting twenty dingers a year. His annual three-month long slump won’t allow for that.

And for the record, Johnson has a whopping TWO more hr’s than Infante. Johnson is MARGINALLY better than Prado or Infante, if he’s better at all.

What’s more valuable, 13 hr’s or a 2B that won’t embarass you on every other grounder?

By Lew

October 27, 2008 6:03 PM | Link to this

Did anyone here happen to see Kelly Johnson’s performance the last 25 games of 08?

The reason for his resurgence was so simple as to be amazing. He put away his leadoff hitter mindset, where he was so patient taking pitches and working the count (like leadoff hitters should) that it worked to his detriment-he took so many strikes that he ended up how many AB’s behind in the count with two strikes-resulting in eventual strikeouts. However, once he decided to be aggressive at the plate and to swing at some of those strikes early in the count, instead of taking them, he became an incredible hitter like many felt he would.

It was his approach and nothing else that lead to his inconsistency and made the difference. I see absolutely no reason that this success should not continue. It’s all in approach and mindset-easily duplicated in 09. It was his inconsistency, NOT lack of ability that was the problem. I think the trend has already been reversed.

We do not need another 2B. We have one. He’s cheap, can hit, hit for power, has plenty of speed and is under contractual control for several more seasons. Get pitching and quit trying to remake the whole damn team. We have more important pieces to pick up.

By Goober

October 27, 2008 6:06 PM | Link to this

85% of Kelly Johnson lovers don’t wear jeans more than once a month. It’s strictly a khakis and golf shirt, Jackson Browne listening kind of wine and cheese crowd.

By Morton Hears A huh

October 27, 2008 6:09 PM | Link to this

RC holliday for morton? no. holliday for b. jones and a mid-level MINOR LEAGUE pitcher? sure. (morton is a major league pitcher now…not a prospect

you’re kidding, right? Just because he pitched in the major leagues doesn’t mean that anybody would consider him a major league pitcher in any real sense of the term. He has less trade value right now than any number of up and coming minor l;eague prospects wfo haven’t looked so pitiful yet. The guy absolutely sucked this year in the majors. He needs to have a whole lot better season in 09 to inspire any interest at all with others. So far he’s just another Braves pitching prospect who the fans have built up into some great big deal and who has not even come close to producing at even an adequate level. He’ll probably be out of MLB baseball within 3 years, or be a journeyman off-n-onner at the best. I just love how all you prospect-huggers think every braves prospect who has a little bit of success at any level in the minors is going to develop into a stud. pathetic.

By Lew

October 27, 2008 6:11 PM | Link to this

Hey-we need pitching and a power hitting outfielder, so let’s replace our second baseman. Hell yeah, that makes sense.

By Goober

October 27, 2008 6:15 PM | Link to this

And for the record, Johnson has a whopping TWO more hr’s than Infante. Johnson is MARGINALLY better than Prado or Infante, if he’s better at all.

While Deep Throat’s man crush on KJ clearly makes me uncomfortable, BA’s dimwitted commentary on second base makes me quite sad. Imagine what it is like to go around all day with a bib for all the drool. A grown man with a bib. Sometimes, even a drool bucket. When he mouths those words foolishly trashing KJ in favor of Nitmar, the sound of the drool hitting his teeth is not unlike that of the waves of the ocean on the reef.

By Deep Throat

October 27, 2008 6:18 PM | Link to this

What’s more valuable, 13 hr’s or a 2B that won’t embarass you on every other grounder?

How many times has the whole defense thing been gone through? Seriously. Prado’s defense was not better than Johnson’s at second base; not in 2008 nor 2007.

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it.” -Joseph Goebbels

Not an hour goes by without Deep Throat showing his undying love for all things Kelly Johnson.

And not one blog goes by without BA or Bobby’s Cox or probably you putting on your pink Martin Prado jersey and squealing about his going-the-other-way and good (not really) defense. We get it already, you love Prado…but you don’t have to argue with stupid crap like “he strikes out less” all the dang time.

By Cherokee

October 27, 2008 6:21 PM | Link to this

Deep Throat:

Infante’s career high in hr’s- 16

Johnson’s career high in hr’s- 16

That says it all. BA

the ignorance of some people’s children can be overwhelming. If you can’t understand the game of baseball any better than to say some imbecilic statement like that, you need to take up a simpler game. maybe Jacks wouldn’t be too taxing. It would take a while, but I honestly believe that you could come to understand that game within a year or two.

By NickC

October 27, 2008 6:22 PM | Link to this

When exactly did Prado become good defensively?

By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)

October 27, 2008 6:23 PM | Link to this

Charlie Manuel: I love speed.

Then when considering that the Phillies Jimmy Rollins (47 stolen bases) and Shane Victorino (36 stolen bases) hit one-two in eighty of the Phillies games during this past season, I believe him.

Then when taking into account both Jose Reyes (56 stolen bases) and Hanley Ramirez (35 stolen bases). it just reinforces a fact of life in the N.L. East.

I’ll say it again, SPEED KILLS. Stolen base totals are up, home runs are down. The running game is back and the Braves need to get with the damn program.

By David O'Brien

October 27, 2008 6:26 PM | Link to this

Forecast is for rain arriving at about 7, light at first, but heavy by 9 or 10.

Folks, believe it or not, I just heard they might bang this thing and play Game 5 tomorrow on what was supposed to be a travel day if the series went beyond five games.

Right now the team are on the field, the Phillies taking BP and the Rays stretching. No announcements have been made.

By BA

October 27, 2008 6:29 PM | Link to this

“prospect huggers” has got to be the dumbest phrase ever coined here.

goo, as much as you post it seems like eventually you’d get lucky and come up with something that’s actually, well, funny.

But you never have. It’s never been funny once. Just a guy that’s desperate to be funny, but consistently isn’t. That makes all of us “quite sad”.

A grown man with all the pesonality and wit of a bar of soap. Now go work on forty sentences with snappy use of the word goo for next season. We’ll be waiting with bated breath.

By Steve from OH

October 27, 2008 6:33 PM | Link to this

Kelly J has a career BA/OBP/SLG of .273/.356/.440.

Infante has a career BA/OBP/SLG of .260/.304/.391.

I don’t see how any of that can be construed as “Infante is as much of an offensive threat as Kelly,” which is simply not true. It is quite a stretch on defense, too, because Kelly is +3 according to the +/- defensive rating system that Braveheart advocates (meaning Kelly saves 3 runs above an average 2B. Hardly a “butcher.”).

If you made the argument that we should trade Kelly for pitching because Prado is a reasonably competent fill-in, I might be more inclined to buy it. Infante? Gimme a break. Great bench guy, as a starter…not so much. Would like to see Martin get a larger sampling before we pass judgment on him, too, but I like what I saw last summer. But my vision, may have been obscured by the small sample-size goggles that many here seem to wear.

Not saying that moving Kelly for pitching would be a terrible thing, but again, we’d be creating a hole at a position that we’ve got a very solid, young, cheap player manning. Don’t see how that is a good thing, unless we get Peavy back.

By Joe M.

October 27, 2008 6:40 PM | Link to this

goo boy is so not funny.

“I just love how all you prospect-huggers think every braves prospect who has a little bit of success at any level in the minors is going to develop into a stud. pathetic.”

prospect-huggers was coined by me. nice to see it spreading. agreed 100% with quoted comment.

By Anders

October 27, 2008 6:45 PM | Link to this

DOB

Folks, believe it or not, I just heard they might bang this thing and play Game 7 tomorrow

Game 7? Wow, somebody really can’t wait for this to be over. I’m with you.

By BA

October 27, 2008 6:45 PM | Link to this

So I guess you dolts would rather trade the shortstop? Something’s got to give here, SD is going to want more than a Lillibridge/Reyes package, I assure you. And I guarantee they would rather trade The Streaking Butcher than Hanson.

By Steve from OH

October 27, 2008 6:47 PM | Link to this

Kris Medlen threw two scoreless innings today for Mesa, striking out two. Deunte Heath tossed a scoreless frame with one K. Medlen’s ERA is now 1.80 in 11 innings. Van Pope 1-3.

Coach:

Speed is great, man, but not in place of better skills like OBP or SLG. It’s a wonderful complement to those skills but is not a suitable replacement for those. It’s easy for Manuel to say that when his team is second in the NL in SLG. They were also top-5 in the league in hitter and pitcher VORP, and 5th in defensive efficiency. Speed helps, sure, but those things are the reason they’re in the World Series, not stolen bases.

Build a team around OBP and SLG, and if speed comes with those guys, great. If not, you’re not out too much. Don’t build a team around fast guys with bad OBP’s. You will lose a lot.

By David O'Brien

October 27, 2008 6:53 PM | Link to this

It’s strictly a khakis and golf shirt, Jackson Browne listening kind of wine and cheese crowd.Goober

Don’t know that I’d associate the khakis-and-golf-shirt set with Jackson Browne.

Maybe James Taylor.

By Anders

October 27, 2008 6:58 PM | Link to this

Steve from Ohio

Good 6:47 post. Makes sense. I like having speedon my team but it’s useless trotting back to the dugout.

By McFann O –[brr!]

October 27, 2008 7:05 PM | Link to this

Charlie Manuel: I love speed.

I hate it!!

…unless it’s on our side…

By David O'Brien

October 27, 2008 7:07 PM | Link to this

Anders, you got me. Sorry, I’m thinking elimination game, game 7 … OK, I need coffee.

By David O'Brien

October 27, 2008 7:12 PM | Link to this

I gotta disagree with the critique of the “prospect-huggers” label. I thought it was rather clever, as long as it’s not overused.

Now the whole “goo” thing is truly, without question, the stupidest, most inane and painfully unfunny material that anyone’s used repeatedly here in recent memory.

No, really. It is.

By David O'Brien

October 27, 2008 7:19 PM | Link to this

A couple of signs here in Philly crowd referencing the annoying cowbell banging at Tropicana Field:

One sign said “Phillies Fan Make Real Noise” and another was succinct and to the point: “Cowbell This”

By Anders

October 27, 2008 7:21 PM | Link to this

I’m hoping elimination game. I love baseball too much to have a World Series trophy handed out at the Trop. Sorry but that place has the charm of an old airport.

Plus I’d prefer a team to average at least 25K to 30K fans per game for a season or two before the fans are rewarded with a title.

By N Nine

October 27, 2008 7:23 PM | Link to this

painfully unfunny material

By Goober

October 27, 2008 7:38 PM | Link to this

Don’t know that I’d associate the khakis-and-golf-shirt set with Jackson Browne.

Maybe he was cool at one time but all I see are the khakis-and-golf-shirt set digging Jackson Browne these days. Hasn’t aged well.

Have to agree that the goo thing definitely wasn’t funny …. do not mistake me for goo. I’m Goober.

I’ve tried to give Jackson Browne a chance here over the last few minutes on youtube. It’s making me feel all Izod Lacoste .

I gotta disagree with the critique of the “prospect-huggers” label. I thought it was rather clever, as long as it’s not overused.

Gentlemen, it’s either prospect hugger or NAMBLA…….. the choice is yours

By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)

October 27, 2008 8:02 PM | Link to this

Speed creates offense. It always has. So many fans have never grasped this aspect of the game. It’s pure aggression on the base path’s that create scoring opportunity’s, error’s, puts runners in scoring position, stolen bases and yes, even HR’s. Charlie Manuel, Mike Scioscia, Joe Maddon and many other managers understand this.

Many fans who have never played the game don’t and I’m not going to argue something I know to be true. Baseball is meant to be played in it’s totality.

Three of the best lead off hitters in the games play in our division: Jimmy Rollins, Jose Reyes and Hanley Ramirez. Until our Braves can match up with them, they will continue to be at a disadvantage.

By Wayne

October 27, 2008 8:04 PM | Link to this

Lew What’s your take on the Peavy situation these days? I keep going out and back on it. While the one hand, I would love to get him, I have this love affair with so many of our prospects, that I don’t want to see them moved.

If we have to lose Schafer and Morton, then I would rather take my chances with somebody else.

While I love Escobar’s game, really, he is the only big piece I would be willing to move to get Peavy. I think he can be more easily replaced (Greene, Renteria, Lilly, Infante, etc)

What say ye?

By McFann O –[brr!]

October 27, 2008 8:06 PM | Link to this

Anders Sorry but that place has the charm of an old airport.

Yeah. And Citizens Bank Park has all the charm of a gallows.

By nolie

October 27, 2008 8:07 PM | Link to this

I like the term prospect-huggers, too. So apropos to many fans on various baseball boards, not just the Braves. Shanks has to be the national president though.

By David O'Brien

October 27, 2008 8:15 PM | Link to this

It’s gonna take a man to get a ball out to left field tonight. The wind is howling in from left field.

By ncscoots

October 27, 2008 8:16 PM | Link to this

BA, I don’t disagree with you, in this respect: if it comes down to Kelly or Escobar in a trade, I’ve gotta go help Kelly pack. As much as I think of his game.

But, one other note (just because I can’t resist, LOL)…Infante made all his errors last year in the infield. :-)

By McFann O –[brr!]

October 27, 2008 8:17 PM | Link to this

Coach So many fans have never grasped this aspect of the game.

Oh, I’ve grasped it. And I’m SICK OF IT!

…unless it’s on our side…

Good lord, Lorn. There’s an add for Fillies World Series gear at the bottom of my screen…Get outta my face!!

By nolie

October 27, 2008 8:22 PM | Link to this

Baseball America on Braves Home Cooking

Ka’aihue finds himself in familiar surroundings in HWB

By Bill Ballew October 20, 2008

ATLANTA—There are times when Kala Ka’aihue gives every indication of being the next great power-hitting first baseman at the major league level. And there are other occasions, often early in the season, when the Hawaiian looks like little more than an organizational player stuck in the middle of the minor leagues.

If the second half of the 2008 campaign serves as an accurate indicator, Ka’aihue may indeed be the real deal. After hitting just .184 in April and failing to club his first home run of the season until May 8, the 6-foot-2, 230-pounder raked at a .321 clip during the final three months. He concluded the campaign hitting .274/.417/.457 while leading Double-A Mississippi with 14 home runs and 61 RBIs and an .874 on-base plus slugging percentage.

“KK really made the adjustments over the course of the season, and he put everything together during the postseason” Mississippi manager Phillip Wellman said. “He has incredible power and the ability to turn on a fastball at 96 miles an hour.”

Combine his hitting prowess with his well-above-average defensive work at first base and everything should point to Ka’aihue following in his brother Kila’s recent footsteps by playing in the major leagues.

The problem comes, however, in a tendency to start colder than a front of Arctic air at the plate. In addition to his difficulties in 2008, Ka’aihue batted .167/.277/.352 in April 2007 while playing at high Class A Myrtle Beach.

“He has to figure out a way to get off to a faster start,” Wellman said. “At the major league level, they can’t afford to wait around for a month or two while a player, especially a young one, comes around at the plate.”

Ka’aihue, a nondrafted free agent out of South Mountain (Ariz.) CC, looked into opportunities of playing winter ball in the Dominican Republic and Venezuela before returning to Hawaii Winter Baseball. While the 23-year-old is a bit long of tooth compared to some prospects in Hawaii Winter Baseball, he says he is looking to continue building on his recent momentum with a combination of “live pitching and home cooking.”

Wigwam Wisps

• The Braves are giving Tyler Flowers some additional reps behind the plate during the Arizona Fall League. Flowers had a breakthrough season at the plate at Myrtle Beach and is adding polish to his rapidly improving defensive skills.

• First baseman Freddie Freeman was sent home from instructional league in Florida after cracking a rib in his right side.

By N Nine

October 27, 2008 8:25 PM | Link to this

Not sure about Dan Uggla. He has the positives with the power along with a good future at Cheap price.(just finished his 3rd year) But the negatives are glaring. His strikeouts are going up every year. He had 171k’s this year. His defense is below avg. Threadkiller sounds more than excited about Uggla. You know this guy is averaging 30hrs per year to start his career. Nothing to sneeze at. He could easily hit 40hrs in any given year. If KJ is gone then yes we could use him. Lack of power would be restored with upgrade @ 2nd base and add in a nice OF. We would be ok with Schafer as CF and Frenchy at RF.

Since Marlins are calling to make trades which player would be best from Florida? Hanley Ramirez is the only player considered untouchable.

Our future looks so good right now! Here is a few things Mark Bowman said about our future STUDS:

While Kotchman has limited power potential, Freeman has the frame and statistics to indicate he’ll prove to be a traditional power-hitting first baseman. In 130 games with Class A Rome this year, he hit .316 with 18 homers and a .521 slugging percentage Freeman sounds very exciting

While Schafer has the capability to be a big league superstar, there isn’t any guarantee that he’ll be ready for the Majors next year. Hernandez, who might also have superstar potential, could be ready to advance to Atlanta in 2010 Great future in OF.

And every day Hanson brings more excitment. I didn’t even mention Heyward in all that!

By radoncbravesfan

October 27, 2008 8:26 PM | Link to this

DOB I’m dating myself but I liked Hall and Oates better than just Oates or just Hall.

By Steve from OH

October 27, 2008 8:31 PM | Link to this

Coach, all of those things are fine and dandy…but they’re secondary to OBP. Speed is useless if you make an out. Plain and simple. Gotta get on the basepaths to be aggressive (something my high school coach understood very well), not to mention weighing risk vs. reward that others here have so eloquently argued in favor of.

By N Nine

October 27, 2008 8:34 PM | Link to this

First pitch out and Hamels is ready to finish this year tonight

By ncscoots

October 27, 2008 8:35 PM | Link to this

Shanks has to be the national president though.

Chairman of the board, now and emeritus, LOL.

And once again, the ugly specter of speed-freaks and stolen-base mavens raises its head on the blog, LOL. For those of you who might entertain the thought of perhaps refuting the case, please, ignore that twitch, LOL. Can’t be done. Tried it myself. Lost cause.

I’d rather read another 6000 proposed Jake Peavy packages. God help me, I’d rather read a proposed Ryan FREEL package, than hear the squishy sound that is the head-against-wall of arguing that speed is a tactical, not strategic, offensive weapon.

Forebear, I beg you. If not the blog, then I, will thank you for it, LOL.

By Anders

October 27, 2008 8:35 PM | Link to this

From DOB’s 8:15 post:

It’s gonna take a man to get a ball out to left field tonight. The wind is howling in from left field.

Imagine that? They’ll actually have to hit the ball on the screws to get it out of that ban box for a change!

By Interested Observer

October 27, 2008 8:37 PM | Link to this

Looks like they’re going to get this game started. Bud Selig probably couldn’t get a hold of the guy who really runs the league….the president of Fox.

By David O'Brien

October 27, 2008 8:37 PM | Link to this

McFann, Citizens Bank Park is actualy a nice ballpark. For a new park, it’s got some charm.

Tropicana Field is, indeed, utterly charmless.

By Anders

October 27, 2008 8:40 PM | Link to this

Radoncbravesfan

DOB I’m dating myself but I liked Hall and Oates better than just Oates or just Hall.

Based on your taste in music I wouldn’t expect dates with anyone but yourself for a while.

Sorry - it was just sitting there dying to be said.

By Brian

October 27, 2008 8:41 PM | Link to this

Anders- I saw where you posted how you couldn’t wait for this series to be over? I guess you can’t wait for the Bravos to get busy retoolin for ‘09 either, huh? jab jab

By David O'Brien

October 27, 2008 8:41 PM | Link to this

When you think about it, it’s hard to believe a place that’s as good a sports town as Philly is, hasn’t had a championship in any sport in a quarter century.

By Steve from OH

October 27, 2008 8:46 PM | Link to this

Scoots, point well taken. And yes, as a “prospect-hugger” (whatever that means), I do have a photo of Bill Shanks hanging right above my desk, lol. But seriously, he is a bit (a lot) conservative, even for my tastes.

By Wayne

October 27, 2008 8:49 PM | Link to this

What a tight strike zone!

By Wayne

October 27, 2008 8:51 PM | Link to this

Burrell should have been out on strikes….

By Anders

October 27, 2008 8:54 PM | Link to this

Kazmir looks ready to come back to the Mets as does Wheeler of late.

What’s up Brian? Re-tooling? Didn’t you spend all of last season telling me your Braves are loaded? Where did it all go? (The ref just asked me to go to a neutral corner)

By McFann O –[brr!]

October 27, 2008 8:59 PM | Link to this

DOB Citizens Bank Park is actualy a nice ballpark. For a new park, it’s got some charm.

Yeah, I gotta believe. I mean, it does look kinda nice.

But every time I think of the doggone place…elgth! Too many bad memories tied in with that place!

The Park I like the looks of is Great American Ballpark…or whatever they’re callin’ it these days. I guess ‘cause it’s on the river…I love ballparks that are by rivers. I’d like to see one in person someday.

Oh, and yeah…not too crazy about the Tropicana. Never been (actually, never been to any ballpark outside the Ted), but from the looks of it…if they cann get more fans, the might wanna think about an upgrade.

By N Nine

October 27, 2008 9:00 PM | Link to this

No, brian so he could witness the Phillies win it all not the Muts Jab Jab

By David O'Brien

October 27, 2008 9:01 PM | Link to this

No ball has reached the LF track, and it won’t if this wind stays like this….

How ‘bout Pena, resorting to bunting to try and get on. He and Longoria remain hitless in the World Series and a combined 1-for-44 going back to last two games of ALCS….

There’s a Willy Aybar story posted now on our website, for those who care. I only bring it to your attention because it doesn’t have a big headline (they still have the Smoltz story at the top) and it’ll be overlooked by anyone glancing at the page to check if there’s anything new.

By N Nine

October 27, 2008 9:05 PM | Link to this

Where did it all go? Anders

To the DL.

Looks like 08Rays will be the 91Braves

By Brian

October 27, 2008 9:07 PM | Link to this

Anders- Man, it’s lonely this time of year, isn’t it? Of course you fans are used to this depressing feeling but we’re not used to this. Oh well, thinking of the Muts collapses always puts a smile on my face!

By McFann O –[brr!]

October 27, 2008 9:08 PM | Link to this

Good grief…2-0 Fills, and guess who knocked in the runs…

[sigh] The Thrill of Victorino and the Agony of McFann.

I’ve HAD it with you, Fillies!! Go suck eggs!!

OK…anyway…it’s only what—the second?

By Brian

October 27, 2008 9:14 PM | Link to this

DOB- I can read your mind… “This has got to be the most BORING series ever,…huh, I wonder if that new remastered Johnny Cash cd is out?… Oh yeah, I gotta write about this silly crap going on!”

By cabravesfan

October 27, 2008 9:16 PM | Link to this

DOB

read the story on Aybar- Thanks for that. It is great to see him be able to turn his life around, not just baseball-wise either. I freely admit I was one that got very frustrated with him last year, of course not knowing the whole story, and wasn’t sorry to see him go, and I am glad I was wrong about him. Sounds like he is a good kid that went through a bad time and came out stronger for it. Hope he continues to play well.

By N Nine

October 27, 2008 9:16 PM | Link to this

I’ve HAD it with you, Fillies!! Go suck eggs!! McFann LOL

Never been to another stadium? Your missing out! Try going to Citizens park with your McCann outfit and mess with the drunk Phillies fans, Ok not a good idea but Ive been to Wrigly Field its was different experience.

By David O'Brien

October 27, 2008 9:17 PM | Link to this

I dipped into mainstream country today with the purchase of Lee Ann Womack’s new album.

For me, her music was over-produced and more pop than country — before her last album, There’s More Where That Came From, which I bought after hearing the title cut. Really strong album with traditional country sound.

And this new one, Call Me Crazy, is much the same. Good stuff….

Got that and Jolie Holland’s new one, The Living and the Dead (she, on the other hand, is decidedly non-mainstream; if you haven’t heard her, give it a try. She’s outstanding and has put out three or four really good albums. Hard to describe, but she’s part blues, part folk, part country.)

By keylargo

October 27, 2008 9:19 PM | Link to this

McFann

Did you see Utley get hit by Kazmir in the first inning? That is getting hit intentionally. Big looping curveball that didn’t break and wouldn’t do any damage hitting him in lower back area. He knows how to play the game, is a team player and is the kind of teammate you would want.

Unfortunately he will always be a Phillie.

By uga-brave

October 27, 2008 9:20 PM | Link to this

god, i’m just now recovering from the night of gluttony and sin that followed that amazing win over lsu. if we beat the gators i’ll be lucky to make it to the poll next tuesday.

By McFann O –[brr!]

October 27, 2008 9:23 PM | Link to this

Goober His man crush on KJ is sadly reaching McFann-esque levels

Uh…I don’t think you’d call my crush on McCann a “man” crush…

Don’t despair, Deep Throat! He didn’t mean anything by it!

By braves n dawgs

October 27, 2008 9:25 PM | Link to this

i don’t think that the rays have utilized price enough in this series. i know there haven’t been a lot of situations that they ideally like to bring him into, but he showed he is something special against the sox. maybe the rays can come back and tie this thing and we see if he can repeat the magic for a few innings late in the game.

By David O'Brien

October 27, 2008 9:27 PM | Link to this

Brian, you wrote that just as I was reviewing the new Lee Ann Womack album _ so I guess you were on to something.

N Nine, if you’ve been to Wrigley, you’ve definitely had one of the best overall baseball-viewing experiences. If I were going strictly as a fan, Wrigley, Fenway, San Francisco and Dodger Stadium would probably be atop my list. And Seattle, because it’s Seattle. And San Diego, because it’s San Diego.

By David O'Brien

October 27, 2008 9:29 PM | Link to this

CARLOS PENA GOT A HIT. Let the pigeons loose!

By David O'Brien

October 27, 2008 9:30 PM | Link to this

And now Evan Longoria got one, too. Let the remaining pigeons loose!

By David O'Brien

October 27, 2008 9:33 PM | Link to this

The rain just started again, and looking at the radar on weather.com, it looks like it’s gonna stick around for quite a while now and only get worse.

What a miserable night to sit outside. Some hearty fans out there.

By keylargo

October 27, 2008 9:34 PM | Link to this

McFann

I’m freezing too!!! We are having a real cold wave down here. It was down to 78 today and will be even colder and more miserable tomorrow. If it weren’t for the beautiful blue sky, I probably would have to go to long pants tomorrow. Next thing you know I’ll be wearing SOCKS!

By braves n dawgs

October 27, 2008 9:35 PM | Link to this

and i need to figure out what name i post under. bad day…

By McFann O –[brr!]

October 27, 2008 9:36 PM | Link to this

N Nine—

We could have gone to RFK in ‘06, but our trip to DC had to be canceled (can’t remember why…it was August…coulda been 100 degree weather…).

Anyway, yeah, I think I’ll pass on CBP, thanks! LOL…

I guess you could say we know what it’s like to go to Wrigley…I mean, when we went to a Braves-Cubs game, there were way more Cubs fans (they were pretty bad, too).

But yeah, I do have the whole “McCann outfit” goin’ on—the Jersey, of course, and my hat even has that number 16 with “McCann” on top and “Braves” underneath!

Glad ya liked my egg line, too! : ) Got it from my Grandma.

Keylargo—

Ah, man! No, I didn’t see Utley get hit! Glad to hear he did! Waytago, Kazmir! Wish you’da been pitching for us 3 months ago to the date…

Unfortunately he will always be a Phillie.

Did he play for them at some point (I prob’ly just made and idiot outta myself…).

DOB I dipped into mainstream country today with the purchase of Lee Ann Womack’s new album.

Alright, Chief! ; )

By bruce

October 27, 2008 9:36 PM | Link to this

David: check your e-mail for one from me sent at 9:32 and regarding the Philly quarter century streak, I’d like to see them start a new streak start tonight or this week… could not happen to a better group of fans. Thanks, Bruce

By bruce

October 27, 2008 9:42 PM | Link to this

McFann did you get a copy of the Oct Chop Talk with Brian on the cover? good cover photo, kinda weak article, and photo of the collision. Thanks, Bruce

By richbrave

October 27, 2008 9:42 PM | Link to this

BA:

Remember REYES came down in MAY I think and GUY HANSON worked with him for a bit. He went back up and was lights-out for one game. Then he says how much help he was getting in ATLANTA and gave no credit to the RICHMOND staff. After that he just blew up. So I’m not giving him much credit for using what he obviously was given here - good instruction.

By cabravesfan

October 27, 2008 10:00 PM | Link to this

keylargo

I feel for you man…78 is cold! We had another 90 degree day here in beautiful southern california- and no cooling off in site:)

By David O'Brien

October 27, 2008 10:03 PM | Link to this

Thousands of people have left their seats in the upper couple of decks and are standing instead underneath on the concourses to get out of the rain. The concourses are just packed wall-to-wall.

By McFann O –[brr!]

October 27, 2008 10:03 PM | Link to this

Keylargo—

LOL! Socks? In Florida? Man! You gotta be kidding!

Bruce—

I did get a copy. Yeah, the article was kinda weak, and I coulda done without the full page photo of you know what, but I like the cover!

Good to hear from ya!

Night, all!

By DAP

October 27, 2008 10:04 PM | Link to this

morton hears a huh?

morton completly sucked this year? i disagree. morton had several very good starts while he was up, and he pitched hurt for awhile, leading to some inflated stats. most people agree that he has good stuff and alot of potential.

also, he has enough starts to be defined as a major league pitcher. sorry, thats just a fact.

p.s. im not a prospect hugger.

By keylargo

October 27, 2008 10:08 PM | Link to this

This is no way to determine the World Championship.

What should baseball do if they are going to play into November?

Neutral site?

Require domes/retractable roofs to be installed by a certain time?

Cut back the schedule to play the series earlier?

By richbrave

October 27, 2008 10:10 PM | Link to this

Went out and bought a used 3:10 to YUMA disc. Dammed thing sticks like crazy, but a good flick. Rather watch a used flick than what could be the final game of the WS. If it ain’t the BRAVES than no thanks. Especially with a team that took 14 of 18 from the home-team. Gotta’ go. Picked up THERE WILL BE BLOOD and MICHAEL CLAYTON. See you tomorrow.

By Jake

October 27, 2008 10:10 PM | Link to this

Kazmir has been a little wild tonight but the ump screwed him on those last two strikes taken by Burrell. Tight zone I guess but if you can call those strikes that are off the plates by inches surely you can call the ones that are in the strike zone up or down.

By Bill Clinton

October 27, 2008 10:14 PM | Link to this

But I want to say one thing to the people here. I want you to listen to me. I’m going to say this again: I am not a prospect-hugger.

By N Nine

October 27, 2008 10:15 PM | Link to this

McFann, that game was still at the TED which is way different. DOB was talking about Wrigley Field; it was very unique and different baseball experience. I’m glad I did go there. It was a family thing for a week and had to choose between Cubs or White Sox. McFann I’d go with that list from DOB’s experience. Sure sport that outfit show em who you like! It’s fun.

By Wayne

October 27, 2008 10:15 PM | Link to this

I can hardly believe how badly Kazmir was getting pinched on the strike zone. Sometimes we complain because they give way too much (like Moyer was getting the other night), but heck this ump is calling legitimate strikes balls. I have seen at least 6-7, and I am not watching every pitch.

Dude should have been out of the first with NO runs, and who knows what will happen now in the 5th.

By keylargo

October 27, 2008 10:16 PM | Link to this

cabravesfan

You know what the difference in your climate from mine? The low temps at night.

Man, for 5 months minimum, I do not see the temp ever go below 80. I mean that literally from May to September it is 90 to 92 in the day and 82 to 84 at night. It does not vary more that 2 or 3 degrees from that except when a thunderstorm comes along.

But on the other hand, it has never been 100 degrees in the Keys. We are just small islands in the ocean and the water temp dictates our temps.

By mbatl

October 27, 2008 10:18 PM | Link to this

keylargo, it’s raining… no need to rewrite the rules of baseball.

Neither team has a real advantage due to the conditions (it’s not like the Phillies have been playing in cold rain all season long).

Of course I wish it were nicer, but… I’m sure the Philly fans don’t mind.

I do wonder… now that it’s an official game, if the skies just opened and it didn’t stop tonight, do they just call the game, or resume it tomorrow?

By Wayne

October 27, 2008 10:19 PM | Link to this

Amen Jake! Kazmir also had Burrell in the first, but the ump squeezed him then also.

They gotta stop this game, as this is getting ridiculous.

By David O'Brien

October 27, 2008 10:23 PM | Link to this

The ground’s so saturated now that water is standing on the infield after just one inning since they put down the drying agent. They’re spreading more of it now and raking it all over the infield. This is gonna get ugly, because they have no interest in halting the game as there’s no sign this rain is going to do anything but get worse.

Can you imagine: “OK, that’s five innings. Philly wins. Here’s your World Series trophy. Thanks for coming.”

By Steve from OH

October 27, 2008 10:23 PM | Link to this

Lew:

I see your buddy Ruben Amaro Jr. is likely going to be the new Phillies GM. Cool stuff, eh?

By Ryan Howard

October 27, 2008 10:27 PM | Link to this

It outta be enshrined in the MMMMMM! Hall of Fame!

By Wayne

October 27, 2008 10:29 PM | Link to this

Iwamura gets a walk, and Crawford hits a tater. Umps call the game due to rain. We head to sunny Florida for game 6.

Ok, wake up Wayne, it was just a dream….

By Wayne

October 27, 2008 10:31 PM | Link to this

This ump seems to definitely be a Phillies fan. If I had this TiVo’d, I’d love to go back and objectively look at all the calls. Ridiculous..

By David O'Brien

October 27, 2008 10:32 PM | Link to this

There’s a pig-slop hit there. Rollins had no chance to field that wet ball on that wet field and pivot and throw, as he would’ve under normal conditions.

By keylargo

October 27, 2008 10:34 PM | Link to this

mbatl

Do they call this game in July? I think so. If they are going to play the possibly deciding game of the WS, at least the teams should know how to play in the conditions.

Normally this game is rained out. You don’t start setting precidents at the end of the season.

By Mikey

October 27, 2008 10:36 PM | Link to this

how did keff kellogg earn the opportunity to umpire the world series … this strike zone is ridiculous

By N Nine

October 27, 2008 10:38 PM | Link to this

Can you imagine: “OK, that’s five innings. Philly wins. Here’s your World Series trophy. Thanks for coming

DOB, will that really happen? Has this happened before?

By David O'Brien

October 27, 2008 10:39 PM | Link to this

Keylargo, yes, they’d stop the game if this was the regular season. This is getting ridiculous.

Upton sliding on that wet dirt … time for him to go to the clubhouse and change into some dry pants, I’d imagine.

By Jake

October 27, 2008 10:40 PM | Link to this

If they won the World Series that way that would be terrible but that field does look horrible. In a game like this with so much on the line I hope they would just suspend it. Ugly game.

On another note I know Kazmir is somewhere saying I can’t get a strike called on a ball right down the middle but Iwamura strikes out on a ball inches off the plate. (Looks like Pena has finally showed up, slip and slide into homeplate)

By David O'Brien

October 27, 2008 10:41 PM | Link to this

Hey, maybe they can call the game and then make it up at the end of the series if it means anything. You know, like at the end of the regular season?

No? That wouldn’t work? Oh, yeah, you’re right.

By Wayne

October 27, 2008 10:42 PM | Link to this

The umps now have a chance to do the right thing, and call this game. Tomorrow, they could pick it up at this point, and it wouldn’t be such a debacle.

By cabravesfan

October 27, 2008 10:45 PM | Link to this

Rays just got a huge break- tied the game and got Hamels out of it…there may be hope yet

By ssiscribe

October 27, 2008 10:46 PM | Link to this

I for one am glad the Rays tied this game. Had the World Series ended with a rain-shortened, one-run game, it would’ve been a joke …

… of course, playing the past 30 minutes in the driving downpour I see on my TV also is a joke. But what can you do? Damned if you do, damned if you don’t.

DOB, stay dry man and get some coffee. You’re gonna be there a while tonight. I’m getting back to work.

The Scribe abides.

—30—

By David O'Brien

October 27, 2008 10:53 PM | Link to this

Ai dios mios!

Personally, I have a hard time believing they would’ve awarded Philly a 2-1 win had not the Rays scored. I really think they’d have made an executive decision “for the good of the game” and finished nine innings as soon as possible.

Just no way you could have ended it there and had Philly win the World Series in that manner. That would have been far, far worse than the All-Star Game tie.

By cabravesfan

October 27, 2008 10:54 PM | Link to this

Keylargo

Yeah it can get pretty cold here- I actually live at the beach- it rarely gets above 85 here during the day but I work in downtown L.A where it has been over 90 almost every day for the last 4 months

By Wayne

October 27, 2008 10:58 PM | Link to this

Do any of the rest of you notice that on TV, the rain looks worse than it probably is, because of the depth perception aspect?

By keylargo

October 27, 2008 11:01 PM | Link to this

McFann will really thing she is something special now. LOL They stopped the game because it was past her bedtime and tomorrow night they will finish before her bedtime!!

She is pretty special though.

By mbatl

October 27, 2008 11:04 PM | Link to this

keylargo, no, I think they should play by the same rules as during the regular season (which appears to be what is happening).

Didn’t mean to attack you, my warm-weathered friend, with my post… but I sure don’t think they need to take the WS away from hometown fans, or mandate billions in stadium improvements, etc, just because of this game. (baseball already way over-reacted to a tied allstar game!)

Mainly, I’m probably just jealous after your local weather comments earlier.

Gonna switch from Sam Adams to Jamaican Blue Mountain (instead of the regular morning Folgers), and stay up to see what happens…

By bruce

October 27, 2008 11:07 PM | Link to this

David: Good story on Willie Aybar, sounds like you gave him a good chance to tell as much of his story as he wanted which is endearing… I am happy for him that his life is on better track and he’s making a difference for the rays. I do not remember, did you have much chance to talk to him in 2006, I just recall reading that he was shy… did he seem to have his pride back? Also, wasn’t he the player who decided on two occasions he did not need to touch a base and got called out? Thanks, Bruce

By Bo

October 27, 2008 11:08 PM | Link to this

The most important sports event of the year, the one millions of fans and all teams spend mult millions to get to play in and it ends up in a muddy rain storm and sh@% for umps. What a damn joke!!

By DAP

October 27, 2008 11:09 PM | Link to this

i dont think were playing anymore tonight. buh bye, im going to bed.

By David O'Brien

October 27, 2008 11:11 PM | Link to this

Jamaican Blue Mountain? You ain’t messing around, man. Is is the real stuff? If so, what’d you pay for that, about 30-40 bucks a pound?

Me, I’m on probably my eighth cup of pressbox coffee. Ahh, the finer things in life. I’m jonesing for a Padron stogie.

By David O'Brien

October 27, 2008 11:14 PM | Link to this

Game SUSPENDED. Press conference in a few minutes to discuss what happens now.

By David O'Brien

October 27, 2008 11:17 PM | Link to this

Gonna pick it up in bottom of sixth tomorrow, weather permitting. But forecast is brutal tomorrow, rain and temps in mid-30s. Might not finish it till Wednesday here, which would push back the potential Gms 6-7 in Tampa, obviously.

By keylargo

October 27, 2008 11:20 PM | Link to this

mbatl

Thanks for the follow up. I was just asking a question though if there were other alternatives than playing the WS in a driving rain with the temp in the 30’s. I didn’t promote any of the suggestions I made and probably the best one was left out - to leave the game alone.

The weather is great here and I have to admit that I don’t really realize it is Oct/Nov until I see football games being playing in the snow.

By David O'Brien

October 27, 2008 11:23 PM | Link to this

SELIG LIVE PRESS CONFERENCE: It’ll be resumed when I believe that weather conditions are appropriate. And as I’ve told everbody tonight after the game, while we’re at a time of the year when (good) field conditions don’t always exist, I’m going to be very sensitive and thorough and make sure we don’t have a situation like we had.

(the announcement is that it won’t start until tomorrow 8 p.m. at earliest, though Selig didn’t say that)

By Wayne

October 27, 2008 11:23 PM | Link to this

Wednesday even looks iffy on weather.com for Philadelphia.

I guess there really isn’t an easy way to get around this sort of problem, with such a long season.

By Bo

October 27, 2008 11:25 PM | Link to this

Thanks DOB for your hard work tonight. Better days ahead my friend with the Braves and winter meeting in a few short weeks…God bless, go get warm.

By David O'Brien

October 27, 2008 11:26 PM | Link to this

Selig just confirmed what I’d suspected: They would NOT have awarded Philly a rain-shortened 2-1 win. He said they’d have had a rain delay of a day, two days, three days, whatever it took to get the game completed.

By mbatl

October 27, 2008 11:26 PM | Link to this

DOB, I couldn’t (or at least wouldn’t) buy it… my sis-in-law travels to Kingston about a week of each month, and sends a nickel bag to me once in a while :).

By David O'Brien

October 27, 2008 11:31 PM | Link to this

Forecast now is about 30 percent chance of rain tomorrow night at 8 p.m. But temperature forecast is 32 degrees at that hour. Ouch.

By Wayne

October 27, 2008 11:39 PM | Link to this

Any additional nuggets gleaned from your contacts at the game tonight on the trade front?

By Wayne

October 27, 2008 11:43 PM | Link to this

It was 69 degrees and sunny today in SLC, Utah.

By Interested Observer

October 27, 2008 11:46 PM | Link to this

DOB

I hope you didn’t check out of your hotel like the Rays did. Your buddy Cliff Floyd might be looking for a place to stay tonight.

By mbatl

October 27, 2008 11:55 PM | Link to this

They would NOT have awarded Philly a rain-shortened 2-1 win.

That’s good to hear. Sometimes, decisions have to be made by human beings, and it actually sounds like the human beings at MLB had the right idea.

Weird… a 3-inning game on Tuesday.

By keylargo

October 27, 2008 11:58 PM | Link to this

DOB

Here is another forecast from *WeatherUnderground.com.

For 8 PM they forecast 43 degrees, wind at 15mph and 80% chance of rain.

By mitchie-san

October 28, 2008 12:26 AM | Link to this

Wow, What else can happen? I am glad they are gonna pick up the game tomorrow.

By David O'Brien

October 28, 2008 1:19 AM | Link to this

Interested Observer, I didn’t check out of my hotel today, but I’m leaving as planned in the morning. We haven’t been covering the Series in a conventional sense, with game stories and all, so it didn’t make much sense to spend close to a thousand bucks for one or two more hotel nights here and changing flights, etc.

We’re using more of our travel budget to cover GM meetings, winter meetings and a visit to Fall League.

By Citizens Bank Park

October 28, 2008 1:20 AM | Link to this

Keep the rain coming, cause we are just rakin’ in the profits. More beer and cheesesteaks anyone? How about another tshirt for your friends who couldn’t make it to the game? See you tomorrow! Mmmuahahaahahahaha!

By David O'Brien

October 28, 2008 1:29 AM | Link to this

So true, Citizens Bank Park. So very true.

By mitchie-san

October 28, 2008 1:45 AM | Link to this

I bet those cheesesteaks are awsome…..

By BA

October 28, 2008 3:07 AM | Link to this

That girl on the right side of the bed in the Southern Regional Health Center ad is SMOKING! Well done, ajc.

By Coach ( Skip and Pete will be missed)

October 28, 2008 3:40 AM | Link to this

This is just pure speculation on my part but worth the thought. One more name to consider as someone who might be able to help Atlanta in 2009.

Nelson Cruz.

He could or might be the next Carlos Pena, Ryan Ludwick or just another quad A player. I have no idea if the Texas Rangers have any interest in trading the young outfielder.

Nelson Cruz article

By N Nine

October 28, 2008 4:02 AM | Link to this

AAAh i can’t sleep anyone wanna talk about Peavy? Rats, that Peavy fever woke me up again!

By David O'Brien

October 28, 2008 5:50 AM | Link to this

Ahh, that was a nice two-hour nap. Time to catch a cab to the airport.

By JasonInFL (formerly ME)

October 28, 2008 6:23 AM | Link to this

DOB, you are a madman! I am hoping for a Rays win so the series can get back to Tampa. I am about 90 minutes or so away from there, and if the series comes back; I am going to try and get to game 6.

By Shaun

October 28, 2008 8:17 AM | Link to this

The Rays tying the game really saved MLB. That game probably shouldn’t have been played. It’s the World Series. I know MLB is concerned about interrupting The Simpson’s Tree House of Horrors but how do you let a game go on in those conditions?

I assume MLB has access to the same weather forecast as everyone else. It’s supposed to be fairly pleasant on Thursday.

By Shaun

October 28, 2008 8:28 AM | Link to this

Coach, Nelson Cruz has done most of his damage in hitter’s parks.

In his career in the majors at home (mostly in Arlington) he’s hit .287/.346/.485. On the road he’s hit .218/.280/.379.

Since 2004 he’s played 315 games in the Pacific Coast League, the most hitter-friendly league in pro baseball.

He probably deserves a major league job but I’m not sure how great a hitter he really is.

By Dadgum

October 28, 2008 8:39 AM | Link to this

DOB…glad to see that they (or Selig) used some sense in not saying that the game would have ended as a complete game after 5 innings.

Last year was the first year for a new rule allowing for a non-completed inning past the 5th to stand as opposed to reverting back to the score of the preceding inning. Thus as soon as the Rays scored to tie it that was the quitting point. Still ugly though and probably went two innings longer than it should have.

The umps have handled this world series atrociously. Too bad they don’t have instant replay. Not that I want to see a game stopped 50 times for judgement calls but the umps seem to be front and center in this series and that makes for a bad series.

Also for the huge population that lives on the East Coast it is getting pretty tiresome watching baseball games that spands two days. I’ve got a real novel idea. Start the damn games at 8:05. After the 1st games in each city is it still really necessary to throw the 1st pitch at 8:30 or whatever. Do we really need Joe and Tim to throw in their drivel for 20 minutes? I’ll bet the commercial sponsors would want to get started earlier so people would watch their ads before hitting the bed. I can only imagine all the fans (me included) that have signed off by 11:00. I also will bet that there is at least one beat writer / blogmaster that would welcome an earlier start.

By DAP

October 28, 2008 8:46 AM | Link to this

BA smoking in bed? bad idea.

By Guy

October 28, 2008 8:49 AM | Link to this

The MLB strategy last night was for Bud Selig to talk until the weather moved out of Philly but the officials, everyone in the pressroom and both clubhouses fell into a deep, coma-like sleep during his monotone rambling. Are commissioners paid by the hour?

If common sense were a part of MLB postseason planning, they would just fly the teams back to Tampa to finish it. Let the Phils keep their pro rata share of the TV, ticket and food loot for the rest of game 5.

But then, if common sense prevailed in MLB, the NOAA would have been called, the forecast would have been, uh, confirmed, the game would’ve been started an hour earlier and the teams would have had ample time to finish the game. Maybe they did call the weather service but the plate ump decided on his own that the storm wouldn’t hit the corners of Philly.

Last night, if the home plate ump wasn’t either in the tank for the Phils or having vision problems at the bottom of every inning, the game may have been concluded anyway. It was a terrible, one-sided night of a mysteriously moving strike zone. Phils seemed to be the only benefactor in that inconsistency.

Anyway, If MLB was a bit more proactive they could assume that bad weather would occur and work out a contingency plan early in the season. There again, if common sense and proactivity prevailed, all the games would start earlier than 8:00 so that kids could stay up to watch and, who knows, maybe even become baseball fans.

Perhaps MLB will do the kids, players and fans a favor next year and begin the season a week earlier and start the playoff and WS games an hour or two earlier.

The upside: less injury to players, more likely to get baseball weather, more young fans, older, drinking fans have one less drink, working fans get to bed earlier and are more productive the next day at work, the economy recovers due to increased productivity.

A season that ends earlier would also lessen the misery of Mets fans, who invariably watch their team melt-down before the playoffs. They could be spared one more week of suffering and living in denial.

So many positive things could happen if the baseball season ended a week earlier. Sports fans could focus on football or whatever they do when it gets chilly. Chipper would most likely support an early start too. He could help the Braves win the World Series and still make it back to Texas before the fall rut was over. Uh, to clarify…. make that whitetail deer rut.

-SG-

By DAP

October 28, 2008 8:57 AM | Link to this

guy i agree on the bad strike zone. it was horrible at times for kazmir.

i love the long season, but i would keep it starting in april, and play fewer games. maybe 155 games, or 150 games. make the all-star break a little longer for the players benifit, and then end the season a little earlier. that way the division series can be at the end of september and the world eries would be over by mid-october.

By McFann O –[brr!]

October 28, 2008 9:04 AM | Link to this

N Nine McFann, that game was still at the TED which is way different.

I know. I was just kidding. It was just filled with Cubs fans, so sometimes you forgot who the home team was.

DOB’s list was a good one. San Fran’s Stadium looks cool (again, by water). And Fenway would be cool, too, just ‘cause of it being Fenway. Also, I don’t know if it’s any good, but I like the looks of PNC Park (even though it’s name bugs me). Would have liked to be there on July 11, 2006, ya know?

Seattle…I’d go there for the same reason DOB said: Because it’s Seattle. Plus, we got some family up in Washington…And I’ve always wanted to go there…good wildlife up there!

Sure sport that outfit show em who you like! It’s fun.

Yeah, I’d make sure they knew who I was for! I’ve always had a thing for showing that off. (I also wear my long pants slightly over my shoe tops like he does! Shh! Don’t tell Keylargo!)

Hey, Keylargo!

Oh yeah! They suspended it just for me! Guess they want to shove that celebration down my throat! No…maybe the Rays will steal one here. Who knows?

Gotta run! TTFN—Ta Ta For Now!

I shall return!

By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)

October 28, 2008 9:32 AM | Link to this

Shaun, the Pacific Coast League had five players who cracked the 30 HR barrier. Another twenty-seven hit at least 20 HR’s.

Compare that to the twenty-five major league players who surpassed 30 HR’s and the 52 more that hit at least 20 HR’s and the picture is a little more defined. That is of course a 16 team PCL league playing 144 games versus the 30 team 162 game MLB schedule.

Basically, the 37 HR’s and 99 RBI that Nelson Cruz had this past season are impressive no matter where he played. Not to mention that Cruz is a top notch defensive player whether he is in RF or LF.

By DAP

October 28, 2008 9:39 AM | Link to this

just read that the white sox may be looking to add manny ramirez, and would have to trade dye or konerko to make room on payroll.

dye would be a good player for the braves in LF. power hitting righty, hes under contract through 09 with an option for 2010, and hes affordable. $11mil in 2009, $12mil mutual option in 2010. we could expect dye to hit .290 with 30 homers and a .880 OPS. do it. get swisher while your at it.

By Guy

October 28, 2008 9:47 AM | Link to this

Dap, I like a long season too, but there has to be a way to get the World Series in a week earlier. Late October gets dicey for a game of finesse where bad weather takes so much out of the game itself. I’d hate to reduce the number of games.

Maybe the combo of a few more double-headers, a schedule that makes more sense geographically, a season opener five or six days earlier and such. Not rocket science to figure that out but I realize it may be a stretch for the MLB planners. Currently they seem to use a dart board while blind-folded.

While I’m at it, I’d like to get rid of the 5 game series. Playing best of seven increases the odds of the best teams advancing.

A bigger problem is umpiring. Last nights game once again demonstrated how umpires can completely skewer the game and illustrated the need for not just instant replays but a better way to assure fairness… at least in postseason games. The pitch calling may not have reached Eric Gregg levels of absurdity but technology would’ve made the poor calling less subjective. Maybe the QuesTec developers should start a union.

By Shaun

October 28, 2008 9:56 AM | Link to this

Coach,

11 of 16 teams in the PCL hit over .270.

12 of 16 posted OBP of .340 or better.

10 of 16 slugged over .440.

The worst team (Round Rock) scored 4.38 runs per game.

The teams that ranked in the middle of the pack—8th and 9th in runs—scored 5.41 runs per game and 5.13 runs per game respectively.

Cruz is a good hitter and he probably deserves a job in the majors. But I’m not sure how great he is.

By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)

October 28, 2008 10:04 AM | Link to this

Last night I kept thinking, they have to call this game or stop it. The playing conditions were becoming impossible and the weather also had an adverse affect on the umpires, especially the home plate ump. You could tell he was having a tough time back there. His strike zone was totally inconsistent.

All in all, the game should have never been played in the first place. The weather was coming and Bud Selig knew it. The conditions were equal for both teams. But, somebody could have gotten hurt.

Tim McCarver cracked me up. He was blathering on and on about how the weather would keep the Rays from running and no sooner had he got the words out of his mouth, B.J. Upton caught everybody flat footed, took off and stole second. Which led to the tying run.

The camera flashed up in the booth and I almost felt sorry for Joe Buck. McCarver was leaning over sideways toward Joe, who had to lean away to the point that he was almost falling out of his chair. I thought McCarver was about to french kiss him or something. It was hilarious.

By Efrim

October 28, 2008 10:10 AM | Link to this

http://detroitnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081028/SPORTS0104/810280339/1129

Ordonez on the cheap?

By Steve from OH

October 28, 2008 10:15 AM | Link to this

Efrim, Ordonez on the cheap would be lovely. I hope FW is pursuing him heavily.

By DAP

October 28, 2008 10:21 AM | Link to this

guy starting the season earlier is not answer, since weather plays a part in many MLB cities in early april as well.

to me, youve got to shorten the season by like ten or twelve games. a few more days off for the players, and a division series that starts the last week of september. this year, wed be done with the world series by now and on with the offseason.

By Jeff R

October 28, 2008 10:33 AM | Link to this

I’m one fan who thinks that playing the World Series in the last week of October is absurd. The weather in the northeast and midwest this time of year ain’t exactly baseball friendly.

Up north, they should either have retractable domes on their stadiums or the series should be played like the Super Bowl: at stadiums in warmer climates or under roofs somewhere.

I would suggest rolling the regular season back to 154 games and bringing back the doubleheader as a way of getting the season, and then the post-season, completed in early October, but owners would never give up the revenue to do so.

By Efrim

October 28, 2008 10:38 AM | Link to this

http://sports.espn.go.com/espnmag/story?section=magazine&id=3668449

Strange to me that Buster Olney would bring up Jeff Francoeur’s name as a player who is possibly traded.(along with names we have heard, Prince Fielder and Jake Peavy) Haven’t heard his name at all. Probably speculation.

By DAP

October 28, 2008 10:47 AM | Link to this

efrim looks like a good time to make a move on ordonez. we have a few pretty good relievers we could offer, if thats what they are looking for, as well as a good defensive shortstop in lillibridge.

too bad flowers isnt more proven, because they are looking for a catcher as well.

By Guy

October 28, 2008 10:57 AM | Link to this

Dap, they should schedule early and late season games as far south as possible. Shortening the season would solve the problem, although another asterisk would be added for player stats, which may please the statisticians among us… more math and comparative analysis and such.

I’m just talking about starting one measly week earlier… or even split the difference. Retractable domes would solve all the weather related problems, but we’re generations from that solution.

Here’s another idea that unfortunately isn’t that far fetched: the umps could just, uh, favor southern teams or teams with domes late in the season. Yea, that’s the ticket. A bad call here, a missed tag there, a tossed player and such and voila, late October ain’t an issue.

Must be global warming causing all this. ;-)

By Braveheart

October 28, 2008 11:06 AM | Link to this

Ordonez on the cheap?

3 years, $48 million for a 35 year old who has only had one outstanding season in the last 5 seasons is neither cheap, nor smart. He’s only had one season with a SLG over .500 over the last five years. Only one season with an isop over .200. He doesn’t really draw alot of walks. Hasn’t hit 30 homers in the last six seasons. Has only had more than 32 doubles once in the last five seasons. Has hit more than 24 homers only once in the last five seasons. Has walked more than 57 times only once in the last 7 seasons.

That’s not really the difference maker we should be looking for. Neither is that age, especially when you look at the salary he is due. He’s reaching an age where bat speed slows. He doesn’t usually have tremendous difference making power and doesn’t draw a ton of walks. When the bat speed slows because of age and his batting average falls, it won’t be pretty. You’ll find yourselves stuck with a $16 million dollar, 37 year old Francoeur. A 30 point drop in batting average will likely drop his ops 60+ points. No thanks.

By Braveheart

October 28, 2008 11:21 AM | Link to this

They don’t need to shorten the season. You have a 5 game series followed by two seven game series. That’s 19 games to be played in a 31 day month. Why does it take all 31 days to get ‘em all played? Less days off in October is needed. TV won’t like it but……

Well, anyways, it’s not that big of a deal …… coldweather teams like the Yankees, Red Sox, Tigers, Mets, White Sox, Indians have all played deep into October over the last 15 years without the weather becoming problematic. The one time it does become an issue, folks get carried away like the world is going to hell in a handbasket. In fact, those coldweather teams and their fans are angry they’re still not playing right now in that weather and are making serious plans to do everything they can to play in it this time next season.

By DAP

October 28, 2008 11:26 AM | Link to this

braveheart

the only evidence you have that ordonez is going to get alot worse during his remaining contract is how old he is. sorry, but that is not a convincing argument.

mags is two years younger than chipper jones, and we all know what chipper has done over the last couple of years.

actaully mags is a similar hitter to chipper in some ways. he doesnt walk as much, but he has never struck out 100 times in a season. 87 times is the most he has ever struck out. compared to his Ks, he walks at a very good rate. he is a contact hitter, not a high strikeout, hard swinging slugger. this is not the type of player whos bat speed slows at 35 and makes him suck. he has terrific bat control. he can in no way be compared to frenchy.

the only downside perhaps is the cost. he is exactly the kind of player the braves need in LF right now. the perfect player.

By DAP

October 28, 2008 11:29 AM | Link to this

braveheart not to mention, there is a bit of a safty net with mags. if he gets hurt in 2009 and cant play, were out of the contract.

By Efrim

October 28, 2008 11:37 AM | Link to this

Braveheart

It is possible that he regresses, as he is going to be 35 on opening day next year. His bat speed didn’t really slow that much at age 34 this season. But the last year of that contract could look pretty awful, and teams should be a little cautious when dealing with anyone at Magglio’s age.

As far as that difference making power and player you are looking for, I sure hope they get that…..though I am not so sure that player will be a “difference maker”. What is a difference maker? I am just looking for a guy that can provide us with an 850-870 OPS in Left Field. This team needs it. Is that a difference maker?

By Jim

October 28, 2008 11:37 AM | Link to this

The people on this blog who are mentioning Edgar Renteria as a possibility for our SS if Yunel is traded in a Peavy deal have not been watching very much baseball the last two years. Edgar was a superb number 2 hitter for us in ‘07, but he was already a liability at SS. He had limited range and a very weak arm. Yunel gave us well above average SS defense last year and provided support for the pitching staff, particularly the ground ball pitchers like JJJ, Hampton (if resigned), Moylan (when back), Lowe (if signed), and Hudson (if back n ‘10).

Renteria is no long a ML shortstop, and is unlikely to produce at the plate near his ‘07 numbers. Why would Leyland give up on him if he thought he still had value?

By Citizens Bank Park

October 28, 2008 11:47 AM | Link to this

Efrim — I didn’t see Francoeur’s name mentioned in Olney’s article (the one you referenced at 10:38am). Is it in another article?

By Lew

October 28, 2008 11:51 AM | Link to this

DAP-We have power hitting outfielders in the wings within two seasons. Why on earth would you sign a player for the next three years at money you would need for pitching, when he will be 38 by contracts’ end and he costs the better part of $50 mil during that span. No way. He’s not a bad player, but Ordonez is not the player we need.

By Lew

October 28, 2008 11:57 AM | Link to this

Another point on spending that kind of money for an outfielder-Peavy will cost $15 mil. If you pay Ordonez another $16, you’re up to $31 mil of the available $40 mil. I see no way to get another top of rotation pitcher, pay for arbitration increases (and Mac’s increase too) and sign Ohman to a decent contract (or a replacement LHRP) with the amount left over (not to mention if Francoeur, Johnson or Yunel are traded and must be replaced). It is an unworkable deal. No Magglio.

By Efrim

October 28, 2008 12:00 PM | Link to this

Citizens Bank Park

2nd paragraph, 6th line down

Here is the comment:

Superstar free agents like CC Sabathia, Mark Teixeira and Manny Ramírez are going to get mountains of cash wherever they land, but the middle class is doomed to take a hit. GMs expect the trade market to be robust, and you’ll hear some surprising names floated—Prince Fielder, Jeff Francoeur and Jake Peavy among them—as teams search for affordable alternatives in baseball’s bear market.

“Names floated”. Doesn’t mean the Braves are fielding offers, because they probably aren’t. But it seemed weird to see his name stuck in between two guys you hear about being available.

By Jim

October 28, 2008 12:01 PM | Link to this

Lew,

Great post on KJ. I don’t think that KJ and Jeff Kent are the same kind of player, Kent had more power than KJ is lkely to develop, and KJ may be the better gap power hitter with more speed and base-running skills. The similarities I see are that both players play the same position, both players are no more than adequate defenders, both players took (are taking) a bit of time to develop, and Kent’s early employers were too quick to trade him for what turned out to be far less value in the near term. Kent was immediately better than both Baerga and Matt Williams after those two trades were made. I think KJ will be a significant offensive player over the next five+ years, and, as shown in the first half of the past season when our pitching was not the problem, the Braves offense cannot afford to lose any of its key contributors. I think Lew’s observation about KJ’s change of approach when he was no longer trying to play like a leadoff hitter did play into his hot finish. The blog seems very divided between those who see KJ as the glass half full and those who regard him as the glass half empty. I am in the the half full camp. I expect that over the next 2 years we will see KJ blossom into a much better overall offensive performer than the likes of Dan Uggla and that he will continue to improve his defense. I think he is just getting comfortable with a new position and a better defined role in the lineup.

By Lew

October 28, 2008 12:14 PM | Link to this

Jim-Another thing about Kelly-Many claim he is a terrible fielder. Now, I will never claim he’ll win a Gold Glove-far from it-but he ranked 13th out 30 second basemen in Fielding%. That tells me he is average at worst. Like I said, no Gold Glover, but hardly one of the worst. Considering, as you mention, that he has all of two seasons at the position, I’m betting that improvement is in his future.

All that mess in Philly heads up here tomorrow. The forecast calls for snow-NOT flurries, NOT snow showers, just SNOW. Good thing I put the snow tires on the car already. Looks like the Farmer’s Almanac was right yet again when they predicted snow fall in October. It’s amazing how often they’re correct.

By Dadgum

October 28, 2008 12:15 PM | Link to this

Haven’t seen anyone mention this but Hamels did Upton a favor throwing over 4 times prior to Upton stealing 2nd. As a lefty pitcher the more you throw over to 2nd to hold the runner the more the edge goes to the runner the elements not withstanding. Upton got the tremendous jump after watching Hamels’ right toe move toward home instead of stay in toward 1st. Give Upton all the credit there, they would not have thrown him out on a good field with the jump he got.

Lot of talk about the umps last night or every game for that matter. The strike zone last night was moving. Tough enough to hit 90+ MPH and a moving strike zone, however, not sure I want to go to the Tec machine. Hey may as well put sensors all over the field. Nevertheless, I am seeing way too many high strikes called that are borderline and not enough low strikes. The first job a pitcher has is to establish the lower part of the strike zone and when he does that and doesn’t get the call that is frustrating.

Also, I would do away with this home field advantage thing being awarded to the league that wins the all-star game. The game is no barometer for meriting a team as a home team in the world series. In fact, I say give home field advantage the following year to the league that wins the world series. Far better scenario. You have two teams representing their leagues after 162+ games as opposed to 1 game. Just a thought but it seems plausible.

Lastly, I don’t really like the 2-3-2 set up for games. The first two games are usually split then the other team gets three in a row on their turf. Hard to really see the advantage there if the team can win it without going back again to the other team’s field. If that team wins 4 in a row fine but don’t split on the road then have a chance to win it at home. I know everyone cites travel etc. but I liked it better when they did the 2-2-1-1-1 thing. Maybe I am alone in my thoughts but maybe not. Also not just posturing about this series but in general.

Rock on……..oh yeah anyone else getting tired of the same commercials. I’m about ready to take Clark’s(Chevy Chase’s) place! hey I can dream right

By Guy

October 28, 2008 12:16 PM | Link to this

The one time it does become an issue, folks get carried away like the world is going to hell in a handbasket.

Logic, reasoning and solution exploration about alternatives to playing the WS in late October is trumped by exaggeration and claims of macho northeastern teams. So it is settled… like football, neither rain, sleet or snow will keep the best cold weather baseball brutes from playing their best game and winning, even when many of their players are from way south of the Mason Dixon line. LOL.

By David O'Brien

October 28, 2008 12:21 PM | Link to this

It was about as raw as it can get when I left Philly this morning — upper 30s, raining hard, and windy. Of course, it was still dark at the time, but I don’t think it was supposed to improve much throughout the day.

It’s actually just as cold here in Atlanta, but without the rain and howling wind.

By Jim

October 28, 2008 12:24 PM | Link to this

If Jeff Francouer has another year like this one, you wouldn’t be able to get Mario Mendoza back for him in a trade. The Braves would be smart to see if he can bring back a decent player or a quality prospect while he may still have some value. At this point in his career he is Austin Kearns and that may change for the better or the worse in another year. Unfortunately, if you are betting on him getting better, you were probably managing the portfolios at Lehman Brothers a month ago.

By Greg in TN

October 28, 2008 12:26 PM | Link to this

Afternoon denizens…

Certainly the powers that be that “run” MLB has to be breathing a little easier thanks to the exploits of BJ Upton and Carlos Pena in last night’s six inning mudfest.

And while Bud Selig tries to reassure everyone that the series would not have ended had the weather taken a turn for the worse (which is laughable, how worse could it get?), it would have been interesting to see what would have happened had BJ not made it home last night to tie game five.

Same ‘ol same ‘ol from the current baseball hierarchy. Wait, wait, wait until you get an outcome more in your favor, then pounce. Same Bud time, same Bud channel.

How would Bud Selig face the fans of Tampa had BJ Upton pulled a hamstring running on a very sloppy infield toward second base on his steal attempt? If the bat slipped out of Pena’s hands and creamed a fan in the stands, how would MLB have spun it?

It’s the same sad refrain. This time in waiting for his best possible outcome, the exhaulted commissioner pushed player safety and fan safety onto the back burner. The field was unplayable long before the Tampa rally to tie the game and I bet that the umpires were told to hold off as long as they could in the hopes that the inning would end as a tie.

Bud should go for the good of the game. I know that will never happen since the owners love him (it also never hurts that he was a former owner himself), and baseball is seeing unprecedented levels of revenue. Hey, I can dream, right?

By David O'Brien

October 28, 2008 12:26 PM | Link to this

Braveheart, you’re exactly right in your 11:31 post. Every time it’s bad weather in a World Series, the immediate reaction is, “Shorten the season.”

Nevermind that you’re just as likely to get just as bad or worse weather two weeks earlier in a lot of cities, and next week in Philly it’s supposed to be nice.

You just can’t predict the weather at this time of year, in September-October. Way it’s always been. The first World Series had two games postponed by rain.

By the way, MLB is planning to eliminate a couple of those off days in the postseason series, which are only there because the TV people wanted them. They (TV execs) sure can screw things up, can’t they?

By David O'Brien

October 28, 2008 12:33 PM | Link to this

If Jeff Francouer has another year like this one, you wouldn’t be able to get Mario Mendoza back for him in a trade. The Braves would be smart to see if he can bring back a decent player or a quality prospect while he may still have some value.Jim

But if he hits, say, .270 with 25 homers and 100 RBI next season, how many folks here will be ripping the Braves’ decision to trade hiim for a “decent player” or modest prospect? Just saying, it ain’t a simple issue. This is a difficult one.

By Wayne

October 28, 2008 12:42 PM | Link to this

No real reason to start blaming anybody for the current WS situation. Bud did about the best that he could have done in this situation. As many have stated, the weather is iffy this time of year.

Nobody wants a shorter season. Maybe getting rid of some of the off days during the playoffs would be good. There should be no more than 2 total off day in a 7 game series, and really only 1 off day in the 5 game series. Otherwise, you give a huge advantage to the team with 1-2 really strong starters, and a distinct advantage to the team that is built for the 162 game schedule, with 4-5 decent starters.

To be honest, this is one reason that the Braves didn’t fare as well in some previous WS, in my opinion.

One thing I don’t understand is why you wouldn’t play this game on Wednesday in the sun, to try to circumvent some of the weather concerns?

By Anders

October 28, 2008 12:45 PM | Link to this

How about the Rays having to stay in Delaware because they already checked out of their roooms and their traveling secretary couldn’t find a hotel in Philly that could take them?

Either I’m getting erroneous reports on the economy or Philly just gave the Rays a collective middle finger.

Plus, did this possibility not occur to the traveling secretary, you know, traveling being his whole job and all. There were clouds on the radar from Philly to the Rockie mountains for God sakes!

Boy I haven’t felt this frustration since the last time the Mets went to the bullpen.

By Jim

October 28, 2008 12:46 PM | Link to this

The Red Sox COULD give up a package of Lawrie, Ellsbury, and Bucholtz/Masterson/other for Peavy, but I doubt very much that they WOULD. They are a team with aging players at 3B, DH, RF, and C that have either declined or spent significant time on the DL this year or both. Their starting pitching consists of Lester and Dice K plus Beckett with significant innings on him over the last five years, an aged Wakefield, and a TBA. Their bullpen contains a heavily used closer, an old Timlin, and a young gun in Masterson. I can’t see them giving up their SS, young CF, and a valuable arm in the rotation or bullpen to add a big-name starting pitcher when they probably have the resources to do that via free agency anyway. I think that most of these packages of what the various teams might give up for Peavy are coming from Towers or from his fondest wish list.

By Wayne

October 28, 2008 12:50 PM | Link to this

On the Francouer question, I think unless you have some insider information (Braves staff would have the best idea), you gotta keep him, unless you can get equal value to his 2007 production.

Question Did anybody TiVo last nights game? Ideally, somebody who is retired or has a lot of time on their hands. The umpiring was atrocious, and to me, it seemed to be extremely one-sided to favor the Phillies. Kazmir was pinched badly from what I could tell.

I hate to start crying about calls, so I would love to hear somebody who is objective, go back and chart how many bad calls were made, and who they favored.

Kazmir should have gotten out of that first inning without ever getting to Victorino.

By Anders

October 28, 2008 1:00 PM | Link to this

DOB

I have a question for you regarding “The Nutty Professor” privately meeting with the owners of the Phillies and the Rays prior to the game to decide to suspend the game under any conditions last night. Isn’t how this is to be handled stated in the rules? How can they circumvent them? Was Selig planning to have both teams and the umpires wait out a delay if the Phillies were ahead? That’s one way to stay within the rule.

Let’s say you legally bet on the Phillies to win the series back before the season started and Selig decides to suspend the game even though the Phillies are winning after 6 innings. And then they play it out the next day and the Rays come back to win and win the series. I’d think you’d have legal ground to say that baseball acted outside it’s agreed to rainout rules therefore changing the outcome of the series.

Listen I think they did the right thing but changing rules mid stream and especially without making the changes publicly known is a dangerous and slippery slope.

Thoughts?

By Buffalo NY Braves Fan

October 28, 2008 1:06 PM | Link to this

Wayne,

I consider myself to be fairly objective when it has come to these games, and the umpiring last night was horrible. The fox version of “k-zone” showed 1 pitch to Utley that was at the top of the zone, called a ball. Then in the 5th inning Kazmir threw one over the middle with the whole ball in their “k-zone” low in the zone. Even Joe Buck sat there and said “I guess that was low?” he had no clue.

The Phillies have gotten some real breaks with the umpring the last couple of nights.

By Wayne

October 28, 2008 1:08 PM | Link to this

Anders Boy I haven’t felt this frustration since the last time the Mets went to the bullpen

Priceless!

There is hope for you still….

By MGL

October 28, 2008 1:09 PM | Link to this

Wayne - “One thing I don’t understand is why you wouldn’t play this game on Wednesday in the sun, to try to circumvent some of the weather concerns?”

TV Revenues!

By David O'Brien

October 28, 2008 1:12 PM | Link to this

Anders, he can “circumvent” such rules for the proverbial “good of the game.” Just common sense. He has the power to do that, and nobody, except perhaps some Phillies fans, would’ve wanted to see a decisive World Series game shortened by rain. That’s just silly. Common sense to play it out.

You don’t have to follow rules for the sake of following rules when it comes to exceptional cases like this. No World Series ever ended that way, no World Series game ever ended that way, and Selig is making sure it doesn’t happen now.

He made it clear to the teams beforehand, according to all parties involved, that the game would not be shortened by rain.

And no, no team would have legal ground to say he acted outside the rules. He’s given leeway, quite a bit of power in that position. And like I said, the managers knew beforehand.

By Efrim

October 28, 2008 1:15 PM | Link to this

Lew

Just my opinion, but if the Braves trade for Peavy, I don’t think they will jump into the free agent market and pay for one of the following starters: Sabathia, Burnett, Perez, Dempster, and Sheets.

They may go after Randy Wolf, someone like that, but I would be suprised if they went out and payed top money for one of those listed starters.

By RC

October 28, 2008 1:16 PM | Link to this

Anders,

Rob Neyer on ESPN has a lot of info about the “secret meeting” before the game. It sounds like Selig didn’t have plans to “wait out” the Phillies lead, he was planning on suspending the game no matter what, invoking the “best interests of baseball” rule.

By ncscoots

October 28, 2008 1:21 PM | Link to this

Jeez, Lew, you’re down on Ordonez because of his money?!? His years and dollars are much more attractive than any contract that would likely be offered to a FA OF who’s actually worth a damn.

Spend all the available budget on pitching, as you seem to think is the answer, and you can kiss contending in 2009 goodbye. Sayonara. Adios. See you in third place.

By BravesFanInRockies

October 28, 2008 1:26 PM | Link to this

Lew,

Is Maggs really a lesser option than Ibanez, who’ll command nearly as much cash for a couple of seasons anyway, is two years older, and, not to put too fine a point on it, is pretty bad in the OF? I don’t think so.

My possible objection to getting both Peavy and Magglio is that you’re doing so via trade. How much are you depleting your roster and your minor league depth with those moves?

By Efrim

October 28, 2008 1:38 PM | Link to this

BravesFanInRockies

I know you addressed this to Lew, but do you really think that Ibanez is going to get 3 years and 48 million?

I was thinking more along the lines of 2 years and 18 million.

By Jim

October 28, 2008 1:38 PM | Link to this

If we must play all of the WS games at night, why can’t we start the actual game at 7:35? Maybe a kid could still be up watching some of the game. Why wait as we do until 8:35 to start the game so that we have to put up with a half hour of the pre-game blather? Even many interested adults are not around at the time that these games end. Between the matchups, the weather, and the scheduling, baseball has struck out big-time this year.

By Joe M.

October 28, 2008 1:49 PM | Link to this

Oh please oh please oh please be true Buster Olney! Please tell me the Braves are shipping Jeff Francoeur out-of-town this year.

How many more bases-loaded double plays, pop-ups/strikeouts with a runner on third and less than two outs and first-pitch outs after two consecutive walks do the Braves plan on making their paying fans endure?

“Frenchy” has been awful for two full seasons now in 2006 and 2008. Neither of those years did he get on base at an even a measly .300 clip. Even in his “good” full season (really mediocre) in 2007 Francoeur got on base at exactly league average. And remember the “league average” includes middle infielders, catchers, Corkys and, since it’s the NL, pitchers, and Francoeur is a right fielder!

The Braves need to cut their losses with Francoeur and admit he isn’t the super-star player they spent all this time and money on since his first-round pick in 2002. But remember Francoeur’s absurd long-weekend demotion to AA, when he was suppose to be down there for like three weeks until after the All-Star game? It showed, to me, that Wren isn’t really calling the shots and that it may actually be a sponsor.

By ncscoots

October 28, 2008 1:51 PM | Link to this

My possible objection to getting both Peavy and Magglio is that you’re doing so via trade

Ah-ha, and there, my friend, is the upside to Ordonez. If the Tigers are indeed shopping him for payroll relief, then the player cost should be relatively painless. Braves can afford to take on ALL of his salary, whereas some other trade partners might want Detroit to eat a portion of it. The Braves can say “cash, but no kids”.

It’s not that I’m such a big Ordonez fan, and his age is certainly a risk, but look around at the alternatives. He starts to look pretty good, and only costs three years.

By kdbanks

October 28, 2008 1:53 PM | Link to this

Regarding the shortened season comment, even before the season was extended to 162 weren’t there a lot of scheduled doubleheaders? If each team played a couple of double headers a month, say every other weekend, that might take 10 or 12 days off the schedule. But again, wouldn’t necessarily solve the World Series weather issues but might prevent snow outs from occurring in April. Of course, a better schedule that takes weather into account could do that too.

By Daybed Wagmoe

October 28, 2008 1:55 PM | Link to this

Wayne — yup, the umpiring was bad. I didn’t tivo it, but I saw several of Kazmir’s pitches that were definitely in the strike zone that were called balls. It was made more annoying when one of the guys I was watching it with, a Phillies fan, tried to argue that it was a ball. He also tried to argue that the NL is the superior league.

By Wayne

October 28, 2008 1:59 PM | Link to this

BFIR: I don’t think there is any way this side of the sun that Ibanez gets more than 10 Million per season for more than 3 seasons. He is an AL guy.

Some on the blog love this guy, but he is definitely an AL guy. Truth be know, Burrell and Dunn are also.

I think I would offer Milton Bradley a 3 year, 30 Million dollar contract and see if he bites. If Heyward develops before that contract is up, then trade him later.

Other than Bradley, I don’t care too much for any other outfield FA’s, unless maybe you could get Juan Rivera on the cheap, or maybe Junior.

Otherwise, I think you gotta trade for a bat.

Long story short, if we can get Peavy without giving away the farm, then go for Wolf and Rivera, and then try to get a stronger BUC and a bench corner guy that can actually hit with authority and play the field (Norton is lacking in one of those categories). Resign Ohman, and call it good!

By ncscoots

October 28, 2008 1:59 PM | Link to this

Even many interested adults are not around at the time that these games end.

Well, on the east coast, anyway. Not sure the folks in the other three time zones would agree with your characterization.

By Wayne

October 28, 2008 2:13 PM | Link to this

Daybed Way more than several bad calls.

By Efrim

October 28, 2008 2:13 PM | Link to this

If Juan Rivera is our Left Field acquisition this offseason, we are in trouble.

This team needs more power than that.

By Anders

October 28, 2008 2:17 PM | Link to this

DOB

Thanks, I kind of figured this would fall under “The best interest of baseball” deal. Just trying to stoke the flames on this otherwise dank fall day.

That said, under the same “Best Interest Of Baseball” thought process why would they even have a World Series without David Wright playing in it? I mean why would the owners give Selig these powers if he doesn’t use them to bring America what it wants?

By Wayne

October 28, 2008 2:17 PM | Link to this

scoots I would sure love to see some ratings data by region on the games played so far.

By David O'Brien

October 28, 2008 2:20 PM | Link to this

So the conclusion of the game’s now suspended until Wednesday. It was obvious they couldn’t play tonight.

Now the question: If, by chance, the Rays can extend this thing to seven games, does Cole Hamels go on three days’ rest in a potential Game 7? I would certainly think it’s possible. Game 7 would be on Friday, presumably, instead of Thursday as previously scheduled.

By Anders

October 28, 2008 2:25 PM | Link to this

Haven’t seen it on here but I guess you know the game tonight has been called already. They play tomorrow night now.

This keeps up and Hamels can stay in the game.

By BravesFanInRockies

October 28, 2008 2:30 PM | Link to this

Efrim,

If you can sign Ibanez for 2/$18, that’s a deal. I was thinking more along the lines of 2/$24 with perhaps a third-year option. Cheaper than Maggs, to be sure, but Maggs is a much better player.

Fully agreed on Rivera.

ncscoots,

If the Maggs deal is pretty much a salary dump and they want little in return, then I’m with you.

By Joe M.

October 28, 2008 2:31 PM | Link to this

Delay, delay, delay. This World Series will not end before November with such incompetent people at the helm.

Juan Rivera? The Braves need to someone to play LF with more power than that.

By Wayne

October 28, 2008 2:31 PM | Link to this

Efrim Though I made the Rivera statement, I do agree with you on the need for more power. The question is, who?

Are we willing to sacrifice our “D” for guys like Dunn or Burrell? I guess Philly made it to the WS with Burrell, but they also had Utley and Howard thumping. Our two other big thumpers are Chipper and McCann. Both of those guys figure to miss 15% of the games.

So, while I like Ordonez and Bradley’s bat (could he behave for 3 years?), I really don’t think we can afford to give up to many runs in left field.

What say ye?

By Shaun

October 28, 2008 2:35 PM | Link to this

DOB, I would certainly start Hamels in a seventh game and let him go as long as he can.

By Wayne

October 28, 2008 2:35 PM | Link to this

Dave If I am the Rays, I like my chances with Shields against Myers and Garza against the two-headed monster of Hamels on short rest and Moyer.

By BravesFanInRockies

October 28, 2008 2:39 PM | Link to this

DOB,

I think they’d have to come back with Hamels on Friday. Or at least consider it.

All this talk about him being done for the series makes sense only if they’ve finished playing before then.

By cabravesfan

October 28, 2008 2:43 PM | Link to this

Wayne (and ncscoots)

I gotta say I love the 5:30 start times on these games- for purely selfish reasons of course-if they started any earlier I would miss the first 2 or 3 innings (already have to deal with that during the regular season…really sucks) but I do understand Wayne’s point…8:30 is awfully late to be starting an east coast game ( i know officially they start at 8 but first pitch last night was like 8:22)

By Braveheart

October 28, 2008 2:45 PM | Link to this

Anders, is it true that Froot Loops left Fatso because Fatso wants the Mets to trade David Wright?

By Wayne

October 28, 2008 2:47 PM | Link to this

Rivera While I agree that Rivera isn’t ideal, if you can’t get better in a trade, and you strike out on Dunn/Burrell, I would prefer him over troops we sent out to left last year. Blanco and Infante are liabilities defensively, and Diaz and Anderson do not have enough pop to play the corner regularly.

We have a nice problem going. Lots of good players, only 2 great ones. Can we win with that combination, if our rotation holds up. The bullpen is so dependent on the innings the rotation can give.

Lots of 15-20 HR guys (KJ, Escobar, Kotchman, Frenchy, Schafer (drinking the kool-aid).

Last year more clutch hits would have been almost as good as HR’s. We had too many holes for too long: RF, LF, CF, 3B, 1B, 2B. Too many guys being inconsistent or missing too much time.

By Dadgum

October 28, 2008 2:49 PM | Link to this

DOB…tell me you are kidding us. Selig really told the coaches that the game would be suspended prior to the start should it not go the distance? Really? The umps, players, coaches, fans, announcers should didn’t proceed like that was the case at all. Selig may have been saying that but not sure everyone was on that same page. Not doubting you just seems very curious to me. Kinda like this whole series seems weird.

Just a thought, if the umps had the leeway to suspend the game “for the good of the game” then why exactly in the name of all baseball gods above did the umps allow the game to continue past, oh we’ll be kind and say, the 4th inning? Wonder what kind of tune we would be hearing today had the Rays scored a six-pack in the 6th. Selig saving face just doesn’t hold water. Ha Ha.

Rock on….get us to the dome, albeit ugly, and I will check to see if any of our Little league umps are available. Not sure, don’t get your hopes up.

By McFann O –[brr!]

October 28, 2008 2:56 PM | Link to this

Joe M. And remember the “league average” includes middle infielders, catchers,

Let’s not discriminate here, man. There were plenty of middle infielders and catchers with better OBPs than Francoeur.

Just sayin’…”league average” includes everybody, right?

By cricket

October 28, 2008 3:12 PM | Link to this

DOB

Hamels may be available to continue game 5 on 2 days rest, if the rain delay pushes the game to Thursday.

By DAP

October 28, 2008 3:15 PM | Link to this

lew responding to your 11:50…we have no idea how far away out field telent is, except for schafer. also, there are three positions in the outfield, so its ok. getting ordonez wouldnt interfere with heyward or schafer or gorkys getting thier chances. and again, we can only count on schafer in the near future out of those three.

By Steve from OH

October 28, 2008 3:24 PM | Link to this

I agree with Scoots and Efrim on this one, if the Tigers are willing to basically give him to us in exchange for salary relief, then there is really no reason not to go for him. His contract gives us a bit of a safety net if he gets hurt, too. Of that 3 year deal, I think we can reasonably expect to get two productive seasons out of him, and if he gets hurt, we’ve got a way out of the deal.

Yeah, he’s getting up there, but that’s not a death sentence when we’re talking about a player of Magglio’s quality. Good average, good OBP, good enough SLG (come on, it’s better than Blanco or Anderson, right?).

To me, he’s a great stopgap until Heyward is ready. Can’t really think of anyone better on the FA market or via trade, considering that we proably wouldn’t have to give up much for him.

And yes, Juan Rivera=bad. Need more offense from our LF spot than that.

By Lew

October 28, 2008 3:26 PM | Link to this

Anders-Dude, a baseball team and it’s entourage consists of quite a few people. It may well have been hard to find rooms enough for the Rays. Philly IS a convention city and lots of people are there for the Series from out of town, likely staying an extra day or so. Besides, Delaware is a suburb of Philadelphia. It takes about twenty minutes from Downtown Philly to Wilmington. They even have the same cheesesteaks.

Efrim and BravesFanInRockies. The Braves will not spend $14-16 million for an outfielder. They just won’t. Whoever they get for the other sought after starter, the $9 mil left after Peavy and Mags just isn’t enough to fill our needs, Just isn’t.

By Anders

October 28, 2008 3:36 PM | Link to this

Braveheart

No, Fruit loops left fatso because Fatso made more $’s. In the end they’re no different than the players they criticize for the same things. Huge ego’s, self centered, money hungry.

By Anders

October 28, 2008 3:39 PM | Link to this

Lew

I meant it tongue in cheek -kind of.

By Lew

October 28, 2008 3:50 PM | Link to this

DAP (and Others)-Dude(s), we can NOT afford Ordonez. We can NOT afford to pay $12-16 million for an outfielder. If we do, we will not have enough money to fill our needs.

Envision this scenario-Almost everyone wants Jake Peavy and he will cost $15 mil-this we already know. Supposing we have $40 mil to play with (so to speak-the Archbishop is having a coronary over that one), you have $25 mil left after paying for Peavy.

Now suppose they got Ordonez and had to pay him $16 mil. That would leave $9 million left. We would still have to go out and get another #2-3 pitcher for the rotation. We would still have to either re-sign Will Ohman or get another good LHRP. And wait a minute-we gave up Yunel for Peavy and have to find an acceptable shortstop (remember, you just traded Lillibridge to the Tigers for Mags).

Question-How in the Name of all that is Holy, do you afford all of those pieces on a $9 mil budget, which is all you have left after Peavy and Ordonez? How do you also afford the rises in arbitration awards or salary increases like McCann’s in addition? Short answer-No way you can. I repeat-we can NOT afford Mags or anyone costing anywhere near that much. Think Swisher for $5 mil or so. Think trade to the Marlins for Willingham at even less. Makes much more sense and you can actually make the numbers work.

Of course, they could just trade to the Marlins for Willingham AND Ricky Nolasco. THAT would solve a good bit right there and leave enough left over to get someone like Casey Blake as Supersub (let him play several positions 4 or 5 times a week. Give Chipper time off regularly and others, too) -then we’re also in good shape when Chipper goes down to injury as he likely will at some point..

By ernesto

October 28, 2008 3:56 PM | Link to this

I didn’t watch all of last night’s game (flicking back and forth btween WS and MNF) but Kazmir struck out Burrell twice in 5th and didn’t get either called.

Both in the K zone, right in the middle of the plate.

I’m not even sure if you can call it a “low strike” because it was well within the box.

On the other hand, Hammels was getting fairly wide strikes more than once.

I’m sure they looked pretty good to Philly fan though, just as good as Glavine’s strike zone looked to me in the deciding ‘95 game.

When they grade the umps though, the KZone isn’t going to be ump friendly, from what I ‘ve seen.

By Random

October 28, 2008 3:59 PM | Link to this

Mark Bowman / MLB.com update on Chipper’s shoulder.

By Lew

October 28, 2008 4:01 PM | Link to this

Come to think of it, check out THIS rotation. For 09-Peavy, Nolasco, Jurrjens, Hampton, Hanson. For 2010-Peavy, Hudson, Nolasco, Jurrjens, Hanson. I think that’s a winner.

By Efrim

October 28, 2008 4:05 PM | Link to this

Lew

I understand what you are saying man. But if we trade for Jake Peavy, I don’t want to make anymore trades. I really don;t want to have to trade anymore of our farm system ro fill needs. Gotta take some risks in the free agent market. Now, I would be willing to make a trade if we were getting a player for pennies on the dollar.

By DAP

October 28, 2008 4:05 PM | Link to this

lew i wasnt speaking to the budget restraints. only to your assertion that ordonez would bock young talent. he would not.

speaking of that though, jermain dye may be on the block and he is much more affordable. $11mil in 2009 and a option year for $12mil in 2010. and you mentioned swisher. id love that. hes a great guy to have…but wouldnt be the star we need for this offense. willingham…eh. not to excited about him. i honestly rather have cody ross.

By Braveheart

October 28, 2008 4:07 PM | Link to this

His contract gives us a bit of a safety net if he gets hurt, too. Of that 3 year deal, I think we can reasonably expect to get two productive seasons out of him, and if he gets hurt, we’ve got a way out of the deal.

There’s no way out Steve. If he gets 420 plate appearances next season, the Braves are on the hook for $48 million.

If you think it’s okay for the Braves to only get two good years out of him, why wouldn’t you just offer Manny a 2 year, $48 million dollar deal instead? Same difference ….. except that Maggs is nowhere near as good as Manny and no farmhands need to be sent over to Detroit (no matter how good they may be)..

I fail to see the safety net …… you’re betting that he doesn’t age like a normal roidless man between the ages of 35 and 37 or that he’s gonna be Manny good over 2 years to justify that $48 million …. not bets smart men should make

By Steve from OH

October 28, 2008 4:09 PM | Link to this

Lew, I believe Peavy will make 9 million in ‘09, not 15 million.

By DAP

October 28, 2008 4:11 PM | Link to this

p.s. lew, we could trade enough to the tigers that they would pay some of mags’ salary. i dont know what we’d have to give up for them to do that, though.

By DAP

October 28, 2008 4:16 PM | Link to this

braveheart you do see the safety net, it just isnt big enough for you. if ordonez gets hurt and cant play in 2009, were out. now, after that, we are locked in. but there is your safety net.

By AZ Brave

October 28, 2008 4:17 PM | Link to this

DOB - I was wondering if you have heard the first 2 CDs from Hayes Carll? I bought them at his show in Tucson. They are every bit as good as the “Trouble in Mind” CD.

By Jim

October 28, 2008 4:20 PM | Link to this

Lew, Why would the Marlins trade away any of their young pitchers that are not making much money? Who else on the Marlins is making much money besides Ramirez? Is Nolasco up for arbitration? If so, do they have a cheaper pitcher they can plug into his spot in the rotation that can be anywhere near as effective? I think Volstad is the only arm from the next crop that is major league ready.

By Interested Observer

October 28, 2008 4:22 PM | Link to this

According to ESPN News, the Angels have excercised the options on John Lackey and Vlad Guerrero. They will also attempt to re-sign Tex.

By mbatl

October 28, 2008 4:29 PM | Link to this

SteveO, actually, I think Peavy gets $11 mil in ‘09. A $2 mil bump for winning a Cy Young Award.

The dollars thing is a concern, if you’re talking Peavy (11 mil), Ordonez (18), then probably reasonable contracts for Smoltz (say, 4-5?), Hampton (if signed, another 4-5). And maybe Glavine (?).

That puts us at least in the high 30’s and takes us out of the market for anything more than a middling additional FA pitcher.

Unless payroll is raised beyond what we’re assuming. McGwirk has always maintained there was no set limit - just that he was to make good baseball/business decisions. So who knows?!

By ncscoots

October 28, 2008 4:30 PM | Link to this

Nick Swisher. Josh Willingham. Casey Blake. Just screams “pennant winner”.

Lew, I love ya, man, but here you are as wrong as wrong can be. Unless you think those fabulous rotations you envision for 2009 and 2010 will have a staff ERA around 3. Because your plan leaves absolutely no wriggle room whatsoever for the team offensively. Your plan means that every thing that COULD go right offensively, must. Not a single player counted on offensively can have an off year, because there won’t be enough offensive depth to pick him up.

The kind of pitching that can overcome a thin offense just doesn’t exist anymore. And while I’d love to be able to bank on Francoeur, Johnson, Escobar, McCann, Schafer, Kotchman ALL having bounce-back or career years, I think that might be asking a little much of 3rd- and 4th-year (or less) players.

Need a bat, my friend, along with an ace. Two pitchers and Nick blankin’ Swisher won’t feed the bulldog.

By Efrim

October 28, 2008 4:34 PM | Link to this

I think we would have to give up a lot to get Nolasco and Willingham. Marlins are increasing their payroll to 40 million. I’m sure they would listen on Willingham, but Nolasco is probably a good bet to stay.

By Steve from OH

October 28, 2008 4:38 PM | Link to this

Braveheart:

The “safety net” being that if he’s hurt and forced to miss a significant amt. of time next season his option won’t vest. That’s what I was referring to.

My last post was made in haste so I’ll try to clear some stuff up. Magglio has been solid over the last 4 seasons and really hasn’t given anyone reason to think he’ll enter an AJ-ish decline in ‘09. If we can expect him to put up a line of .290/.360/.490 (which I would say is reasonable, based on his previous two seasons and his career totals) in the next two seasons, it is well worth a minor investment in prospects (maybe “prospects” isn’t the word…how about “organizational players?” That is the only way I’d do the deal: if it was basically a straight salary dump by Detroit, let’s be clear) and a gamble on the third year of the contract, don’t you think?

Can you think of any better options within reason? Juan Rivera is no good. Burrell is 33, so you’re going to get some 35-37 year old Pat the Bat in there, too…Ibanez is a butcher in the field and he’s going to cost some money, too. If you’ve got a better idea, I’m all ears…but right now Magglio looks like a very reasonable and doable option. Not totally sold on the whole idea, I’ll admit, but I don’t see anything better as of now. Hope Frank’s got something up his sleeve.

The age isn’t a huge issue for me right now b/c Mags is still performing well. Even if he goes down a bit, he can’t be worse than Blanco, can he?

By RC

October 28, 2008 4:58 PM | Link to this

I keep seeing Nick Swisher’s named mentioned on the blog. Considering that the White Sox traded some of their top prospects for Swisher just last offseason, he has a relatively cheap contract, and he fits their “type” of player (lots of walks and HR), I really don’t see why they would trade him to the Braves for anything less than our top prospects, which I don’t think anyone wants to give up for Nick Swisher. He just does not seem to be a viable option for this team.

By Efrim

October 28, 2008 5:02 PM | Link to this

ncscoots

Need a bat, my friend, along with an ace. Two pitchers and Nick blankin’ Swisher won’t feed the bulldog.

Classic. I agree. Braves need power to contend. They need starting pitching. They need a lot. Good thing we have 40 million and a great farm system. Hopefully Wren will make some good decisions.

By Wayne

October 28, 2008 5:28 PM | Link to this

Now that’s what I like, some good left field discussion! We all know it is just academic at this point, cause we really don’t know what’s going to happen in the Peavy discussions.

So, while we can speculate all we want (and some of us love to speculate), until a deal for Peavy is done (or not done), it’s all just in fun.

The Braves can go so many different ways. We will probably all be incredibly surprised when the deals do go down. Like JJ last October.

Dang, I love it!!

By nate

October 28, 2008 5:29 PM | Link to this

I don’t know much about Swisher’s contract, but I know he had an off year in Chicago. He batted a horrible .219, but his OBP was still over .300 and he hit 24 HR’s in less than 500AB’s. He didn’t get along well with the Ozzie and was frustrated at this lack of playing time. All that doesn’t necessarily make him trade bait, but the White Sox will probably at least listen to offers. He has a better chance of rebounding from a bad year than Frenchy does. His power and versatility would make him a great pick up for the Braves if the price was right.

By Wayne

October 28, 2008 5:40 PM | Link to this

I like Swisher, but we ain’t getting him for Prado. Maybe Prado, Boyer and Blanco?

(he says only half kidding)

By DAP

October 28, 2008 5:48 PM | Link to this

nate swisher has a really good contract. id love to have him on the braves. he isnt THE answer, but if we had him, he would make our offense alot better. if we could add him and casey blake, i think our offense would be set, honestly.

By DAP

October 28, 2008 5:50 PM | Link to this

I like Swisher, but we ain’t getting him for Prado. Maybe Prado, Boyer and Blanco?

i dont know if we could get him for that, but it would be a steal.

By JimD

October 28, 2008 5:54 PM | Link to this

According to ESPN News, the Angels have excercised the options on John Lackey and Vlad Guerrero. They will also attempt to re-sign Tex Interested Observer

Also, I read where they are declining the option in Garrett Anderson. Hmm. Wonder how much he would cost and how well he would fit?

By ernesto

October 28, 2008 6:11 PM | Link to this

Nick Swisher and his liftetime .240 average? for over 3 mil a year?

Why?

It makes almost makes the summer of Freel love look sensical.

By Give Jeff another shot!

October 28, 2008 6:13 PM | Link to this

The Marlins are having a fire sale again…What about a guy like Cody Ross in RF for the Braves?

Not a super sexy pick, but he’s got 48 HR in about two seasons of work, he is right-handed and only made $390,000 (granted that will go up due to arbitration).

This isn’t a flashy move, but maybe he could be platooned with say a Matt Diaz or a Brandon Jones.

By Wayne

October 28, 2008 6:19 PM | Link to this

Garrett Anderson was very streaky in 2008, from what I can tell. For the right price, he would be OK, but is more of a 6th or 7th place hitter. 290-15-80 numbers. Doesn’t walk too much. 36 years old.

Not a lot different than Rivera, if you ask me. Rivera has more pop, but not as high an average. Rivera had one really decent year, then got hurt. Angels used him more down the stretch last year, but he got little time in the first half of the year.

Of the three, Swisher would be my choice. I also like Willingham, but the back is scary.

I have also been a Casey Blake fan. Depending on what he would cost…. I like the idea of him being your “Mark DeRosa” go to guy for first, third and the outfield corners.

Coach keeps pushing Nelson Cruz’ name out there, but if the Rangers lose Bradley, he might not be available.

The key to our outfield next year is going to be Schafer. I really do not look forward to another year of Blanco and Anderson.

I almost wish the Braves would go conservative in 2009, not necessarily spend all the cash, and posture for 2010. If we get lucky (Schafer comes out of the gate strong, Frenchy has a comeback, and maybe Hanson comes up by June) then get some help at the trading deadline to make a pennant push.

You gotta believe that KJ and Escobar will both be as good, if not better next year. Chipper will play 130 games, Mac will give us his normal numbers from catcher, Kotchman should mature into more of a 290-20-90 line drive hitter.

Frenchy and getting a couple of reliable arms for the rotation is the key.

In my scenario, getting a guy like Casey Blake would be huge. Then, if you had the coin to sign Garrett Anderson or a few bodies to deal for Swisher or Willingham, it might be enough.

By Wayne

October 28, 2008 6:25 PM | Link to this

ernesto It’s not the 240 average that makes Swisher worth 3 mil, but the 25 HR’s and 90 walks per year, that makes him a mini Adam Dunn, who can play D.

and please don’t be dissing my man Freel!

:-)

By ncscoots

October 28, 2008 6:44 PM | Link to this

and please don’t be dissing my man Freel!

Don’t think I don’t know why you do that, Wayne, and don’t think I’m gonna forget it, either, LOL.

By keylargo

October 28, 2008 6:47 PM | Link to this

Hey Wayne - any truth to the rumor Freel is going to play for the Diamondbacks this year so he can practice diving in the pool just beyond the right field wall?

By Lew

October 28, 2008 6:55 PM | Link to this

Scoots-I’d still rather have the pitching.

Jim-The Marlins have quite a few players entering arbitration and are not willing to pay them all the raises that would be required-Remember, after all, they are the Marlins and haven’t sold everyone off for two years or so.

Steve-Maybe so. I thought it was $15 mil. I could be wrong. Nevertheless. I repeat-the Braves are NOT going to sign any $16 million outfielders. They just aren’t.

By Wayne

October 28, 2008 6:57 PM | Link to this

key Never thought of that one, but it’s worthy of some discussion. Actually my man Freel prefers to run through walls.

Now, to be perfectly honest, I would love to have a guy like that for my team if healthy. He can play all OF positions, and second and third on the infield. (maybe some other spots, that I am not sure of).

Dude would be a good bench player, and if we needed to give Schafer a couple of months at AAA, then he could platoon in center with one of our weak azzed hitting lefties.

On another subject, the way Kotsay played first, he sure would be a good pick-up for some team. Dude is a gamer. I just can’t see him playing 150 games for anybody though.

By DAP

October 28, 2008 7:02 PM | Link to this

ernesto your opinion on swisher is simplistic. he plays all three outfield positions and first base, is a switch hitter, and always has a very good OPS. you should know better than to look only at batting average to evaluate a player.

By keylargo

October 28, 2008 7:18 PM | Link to this

Wayne

Freel will make $4 mil next year and will be 33 before the season starts. Bad, bad combination for a bench player.

I like his gung ho effort but he has missed more than half of the last two seasons. You need to be young (I vaguely remember) to play like he does or things break and break more and more frequently the older you get.

By nolie

October 28, 2008 7:20 PM | Link to this

I agree with Scoots and Efrim on this one, if the Tigers are willing to basically give him to us in exchange for salary relief, then there is really no reason not to go for him.Steve

Just because they are dumping payroll is no guarantee that we can just steal the guy. Other teams will be competing for him too and the Tigers aren’t gonna do a deal just cause it’s the good ol’ Braves. He will likely be relatively cheaper, but if others are interested we aren’t gonna steal him away for next to nothing.

By An Idiot

October 28, 2008 7:24 PM | Link to this

I am the only kind of person that would compare Nick Swisher to Ryan Freel.

By And Idiot

October 28, 2008 7:25 PM | Link to this

I am the only kind of person that would compare Nick Swisher to Ryan Freel.

Sorry forgot the “d” last time.

By Wayne

October 28, 2008 7:26 PM | Link to this

key Completely agree on your points. For 2 mil, he might be worth it.

Heck, at 53, things break just getting out of bed, or climbing in the truck….

By Steve from OH

October 28, 2008 7:27 PM | Link to this

Lew, mbatl:

Cot’s has Peavy at 8MM in ‘09, and I had a 1MM raise for Cy Young, hence 9MM. Using mbatl’s info, that puts him at 10MM. I agree that 16MM is too much for an outfielder, but signing a free agent OF will probably approach that, or surpass it in Ramirez and Dunn’s case (most likely). Not the best monetary option, I agree, but I would be willing to bet that the upper limit on payroll is a bit fluid, so if Mags pushes us a bit over it’s ok. Oh, and that 40MM spending number is after arbitration numbers have been estimated, I believe (MLBTR has us at 48MM committed + arb. raises). So we’ll have cash to work with.

Mags has some flaws, but I agree with Scoots: we need a bat, without a doubt. Gotta improve the slugging #’s from the corner OF spots. I really don’t see a better choice than Magglio out there (please, don’t say Juan Rivera. Anything but Juan Rivera). Hopefully Frank’s got something good up his sleeve.

By Steve from OH

October 28, 2008 7:34 PM | Link to this

nolie, of course we won’t but if you factor out the teams who don’t need corner OF help, or can’t afford Mags, that thins the field pretty quickly. I think that we could probably get him without giving up any top prospects. It won’t be a Gotay-for-Ordonez deal or anything like that, but if we could get him for, say, Todd Redmond or JoJo Reyes why not go for it? Won’t cost anything near what Jake Peavy will.

By ernesto

October 28, 2008 7:38 PM | Link to this

Ok. Points taken. I just don’t share the vision that a guy like Swisher or Freel would be an impact guy on this team.

I think we have way better uses for 3 or 4 mil than either of those guys.

But for those of you in love with Dirty 30 (isn’t that his nickname?) here’s a write up on other’s thoughts on him

“A’s fans saw some signs last year that Swisher might turn into the youngest-peaking hitter this side of Ben Grieve. But he was still pretty decent until his numbers fell off the table the second half of this year. U.S. Cellular Field is the best power-hitting park in MLB and maybe Nick got too much in a swinging-for-the-fences mode.”

And Swisher and Freel comparisons? Neither have a high enough average to be a prototypical lead off hitter. They both make more jack than we need to spend on the kind of guy they are, and some on the blog have an unexplainable mancrush on one or both of them.

Fair room for comparison? I think so.

Alright now, let’s hear from everyone who thinks we’re just one Chone Figgins away from the Fall Classic.

By mbatl

October 28, 2008 7:48 PM | Link to this

SteveO, from Cots:

2009 salary increases to $11M with Cy Young during 2005-07.

I may have misworded it a little, but it appears to me the price is $11 mil for ‘09, for Peavy.

I certainly agree that Maggs is about the best OF option out there (that we know of, anyway), except that he’s expensive. I don’t care if the Braves spend $150 mil, though, so it’s fine with me if we can swing it…

By Steve from OH

October 28, 2008 7:58 PM | Link to this

Looks like I didn’t read it carefully enough, mbatl. Thanks for the clarification.

By McFann O –[brr!]

October 28, 2008 8:00 PM | Link to this

Is Freel that guy who’s always getting concussions, or am I mistaken?

By Baseball Business Management 101

October 28, 2008 8:02 PM | Link to this

Several posters have, during the course of heated hot - stove speculation (emphasis on speculation), stated that, quite possibly, the Brave have something going on that is “under the radar”, or “out of left field” (pick your euphemism), and they cite historical examples.

There is a rational reason which explains the Braves’ (and other teams) apparent “knack” for this.

Baseball is a highly competitive industry, and the potential labor pool from which they draw is proportionally small, as compared to other industries as measured by revenue. The economic margin of error with regard to “employee retention decisions” is therefore proportionally higher.

“Inside” information is what drives the industry - thus creating deals which “come from left field”. Information which we are not privy to.

Hot stove speculation…uses lots of bandwidth but frequently not based in reality..

By BravesFanInRockies

October 28, 2008 8:19 PM | Link to this

nolie,

Good point. If the Tigers really are in salary-dump mode, then other teams should essentially treat Magglio like a free agent. How much are you willing to give up for him (in dollars plus prospects, as it turns out)?

And please Frank don’t even think about Ryan (walking concussion) Freel.

By David O'Brien

October 28, 2008 8:24 PM | Link to this

Guys, some of you are making Peavy’s salary more difficult than necessary. There’s no discrepancy about his salary breakdown. It is this, as we (and many others, including the S.D. newspaper) have reported:

Peavy is under contract with guaranteed salaries of $11 million in 2009, $15 million in 2010, $16 million in 2011 and $17 million in 2012, plus a $22 million option for 2013 with a $4 million buyout.

By David O'Brien

October 28, 2008 8:27 PM | Link to this

AZBrave, I didn’t even know Hayes had two previous CDs. They’re as good as the most recent one, huh? I’ll have to have Don order them…

Got the new Ryan Adams CD today, Cardinology, and it’s excellent.

By Interested Observer

October 28, 2008 9:01 PM | Link to this

While we’re talking about potential additions to the Braves, has there been any scuttlebutt as to who might replace Skip and Pete on the broadcast team? Awfully big shoes to fill for whoever that might be.

By McFann O –[brr!]

October 28, 2008 9:03 PM | Link to this

Hello?

By TommyP

October 28, 2008 9:21 PM | Link to this

I’ve been reading how the Marlins are increasing their payroll somewhat and won’t have to have a firesale.

That said, the 3 they are dangling are Jacobs, Willingham and Olsen.

Jacobs: Never been a fan and we don’t need him. Willingham: Ohhhhhh that back. Olsen: Too much baggage.

I see Prince Fielder is being actively shopped.

Could Wren get creative? They’d need a 1B replacement and young pitching.

Hey, fun to speculate.

By ncscoots

October 28, 2008 9:23 PM | Link to this

Lew, what the heck, if I couldn’t argue with my friends, I’d be reduced to picking fights with strangers. I’ve tried to give that up in my latter years, LOL.

Besides, I’m unsurprised at your position, knowing you to be a mound-hugger from way back (I’m a homer-hugger myself, well-known). I don’t fault you for your proclivities, nothing wrong with that at all.

Wouldn’t want a daughter to marry a mound-hugger, of course, but, other than that…

By TommyP

October 28, 2008 9:27 PM | Link to this

Ken Griffey in LF?

He’s available.

Discuss.

By Braveheart

October 28, 2008 9:30 PM | Link to this

Is Freel that guy who’s always getting concussions, or am I mistaken?

No, Freel’s the guy who scored that run this summer because McCann didn’t block the plate ……..

By ncscoots

October 28, 2008 9:34 PM | Link to this

nolie, just to be precise, I wouldn’t expect Ordonex to be gotten for a bag of balls, LOL. You hit it on the head with “relatively” player-inexpensive.

I don’t think Detroit actually WANTS to trade the guy, but they seem to expect a Motown box-office beatdown after their lost season. Guess it depends on how much they think they’ll bleed. If Ilitch thinks he’s going to have a sucking chest-wound of red ink, Ordonez is a logical place to start for stanching it.

By McFann O –[brr!]

October 28, 2008 9:43 PM | Link to this

Braveheart No, Freel’s the guy who scored that run this summer because McCann didn’t block the plate

Good lord.

By David O'Brien

October 28, 2008 9:44 PM | Link to this

TommyP, I don’t think the Braves have ruled out Griffey (not, say, the way they have Manny). But the questions about Griffey are obvious: How much has he got left and can he stay healthy and play the majority of time?

As I’ve said before, I think it’s the first time in all the discussions of Griffey that have come up here in recent years, the first time it actually makes some sense.

By Thrillhouse44

October 28, 2008 9:57 PM | Link to this

Griffey? I love the dude. Really do. I can’t wait to tell my kids that I saw him play live. But, he really can’t be the answer, can he? He’s likely to miss at least 20 games every year. Couple that with Chipper’s absences and it’s just not a good combination.

By Moby Grape

October 28, 2008 10:07 PM | Link to this

Ok. Points taken. I just don’t share the vision that a guy like Swisher or Freel would be an impact guy on this team.

I think we have way better uses for 3 or 4 mil than either of those guys.Ernesto

I have to agree. I am an enthusiastic stats user and understand all about OBP.OPS etc over BA, but I do not feel that Swisher has a high enough OBP or S% to disregard the fact the he hits in the .240s and didn’t even come close to that last year in a hitters park. I will go that route with guys like Dunn who provide copious power and have OBP of .375+, but I do not feel that Swisher provides enough to ignore that hideous BA. And Freel? he’s part of the problem in Cincy not part of the solution, there nor here. Lots better choices out there than either one of them.

By Brian

October 28, 2008 10:11 PM | Link to this

Speaking of Griffey, to me, if Francoeur had a good ‘08, Griffey would be perfect. We just don’t know if he can bounce back, so I would think having Griffey could be too much of a gamble. I would still take him over Burrell, Ibanez, Rivera types. He’d look good in a Braves uniform and that has to count for something!

By richbrave

October 28, 2008 10:13 PM | Link to this

scoots:

Funny man. FUNNY. HUGGERS. Wear them if they fit.

By JC from UT

October 28, 2008 10:33 PM | Link to this

If the Peavy rumors do not work out,could a similar package that FW is offering to San Diego be turned into a package for someone else. Idealy Roy Halladay (I know wishful thinking) Or maybe Aaron Cooke, Chad Billingsly, Aaron Harng. True they are not Jake Peavy but are still good pitchers and would not cost as much in terms of players given up. Cooke is intriguing because he throws alot of ground balls. With all the small ballparks FW should look into as many sinker ball pitchers as possible.

By Kentavo

October 28, 2008 11:01 PM | Link to this

I wouldn’t worry too much about Burrell - he won’t be wearing a Braves uni.

By Coach (Skip and Pete will be missed)

October 28, 2008 11:13 PM | Link to this

Ken Griffey Jr. , NO. He is old, his bat has slowed down considerably and health is a consideration that the Braves are already dealing with in Chipper Jones.

By David O'Brien

October 28, 2008 11:35 PM | Link to this

JC, talked to a couple of writers from Canadian papers this weekend in Philly. The Jays are NOT trading Halladay. No way.

Thrillhouse: Agreed on Griffey missing at least 20 games, and that’s probably generous. More like 40.

Thing is, Braves obviously know that. If — repeat, if — they have any interest in him, I’d imagine it’d be in a platoon or in a 100-60 split type thing, something like that. Just thinking aloud here, but how ‘bout Junior and Diaz splitting left field?

Again, just thinking aloud. In coming weeks we’ll start getting a better handle on exactly what Braves are looking at.

I’ve said since middle of last season I thought Ibanez would be worth considering, particularly if you could get him on a one-year or one-year-plus-option deal. Don’t know if you could, or if he’ll get multi-year offers at his age.

By David O'Brien

October 28, 2008 11:46 PM | Link to this

Just for the sake of argument: Griffey stunk last year against lefties, hitting .202 with four homers and a .299 OBP in 163 at-bats. But against righties? The old man hit .272 with 33 extra-base hits including 14 homers in 327 at-bats against righties, with a .379 OBP and a .462 slugging percentage (.871 OPS).

Diaz, in his injury-shortened 2008 season, hit just .159 with no homers and a .357 OPS in 63 at-bats against righties, but hit ..319 with a couple of homers and a .755 OPS in 72 at-bats against lefties.

For his career, Diaz has a .328 average and .869 OPS in 478 ABs vs. lefties, compared to a .288 average and .706 OPS in 431 at-bats vs. righties.

By Thrillhouse44

October 28, 2008 11:54 PM | Link to this

Griffey and Diaz platooning? Not a bad idea. But that’s just not the power outfield bat i had imagined when FW stated his priorities. It could work for sure.

Ibanez is interesting. It’ll be fun to see what happens.

By Thrillhouse44

October 28, 2008 11:59 PM | Link to this

I think Diaz could come back and have a good season next year. Dude knows how to hit and is very easy to root for. About how much would Griffey cost?

By uga-brave

October 28, 2008 11:59 PM | Link to this

let us not forget who led the N.L in runners left on base. the braves need a right handed masher plain and simple.

the braves cannot hope to get more power from the current nucleus they have.

they really are gonna need two players that would project to hit more then 25 homeruns.

chipper is now a 120-130 game a year player.

casey blake, as wayne has been lamenting would be a nice complement to a PROVEN right handed bat in left field.

winter meetings should be interesting.

By Scottbravesfan

October 29, 2008 12:25 AM | Link to this

I would be interested to see the Braves try and bring in either Griffey or Anderson to play left field. Or how about both of them and sit Frenchy down for awhile?

By uga-brave

October 29, 2008 1:06 AM | Link to this

just be happy that the braves are not owned by the atlanta spirit. gonna be a long year in blueland.

By BA

October 29, 2008 2:15 AM | Link to this

I’d take a Griffey/Diaz platoon, DOB. But with a rookie in CF? Or Blanco? If (IF) Francoeur rebounds, Griffey might be adequate. Same for Diaz- Diaz two years ago in a Griffey time-share would be uber-productive.

Whatever happened to Skip’s theory about trading for one of St. Louis’ outfielders? Just a thought.

By Deion Sanders

October 29, 2008 3:19 AM | Link to this

Where McCarver? Hey- where McCarver?

By TommyP

October 29, 2008 6:13 AM | Link to this

DOB: If the Peavy deal doesn’t work out, do the Braves at some point shift focus to LF or does LF not become the focus until that top starter is acquired?

By JasonInFL (formerly ME)

October 29, 2008 6:40 AM | Link to this

I would think we have to get one of those 2 starters we need first…it will be easier to come up with a solution in LF than a front line starter.

By Anders

October 29, 2008 8:07 AM | Link to this

DOB

I know we briefly discussed the gambling aspect of “The Nutty Professors” secret decision to use his magical powers to supercede the normal baseball rules and not allow a WS game to be rained out. By now I guess you’ve heard that Vegas doesn’t recognize Seligs magical powers. They paid off anyone who bet on Philly citing that they used the normal baseball rules which call for the teams to revert to the score in the last completed inning. Wow. I understand why Selig did it and actually agree with the concept but he looks really, really bad by not telling FOX about the pre-game decision therefore keeping eyes glued to the set for what viewers thought (me and others)could be the decisive game of the WS. Again, he comes out looking like a pawn of the owners in this respect(which I personally believe he is). On Mike and Mike this morning it was reported that even the grounds crew knew of the decision and McCarver and Buck didn’t! How could this happen? If it was an oversight that’s so colossal that I would doubt his ability to run an organization so big as MLB. Unless of course you’re an owner in MLB and then he’s the perfect guy for the job. As usual, it won’t be the crime that gets him it will be the coverup. Forget the game tonight I can’t wait to hear Buck and McCarver skewer Selig and MLB for hanging them out to dry the other night.

Another thought I had after you posted back to me yesterday - what if the Don Denkinger call from ‘85 happened this year but it was the last call of game 7? Wouldn’t it be in the “Best Interest Of Baseball” for Selig to over ride the call and get it right based on conclusive video evidence? Video replay now exists in baseball. I realize the rules today do not allow for this type of review but Selig has already established precedent for circumventing the rules where he see’s fit. See what I meant the other day by a dangerous precedent and slippery slope he’s created? If you give one person wide ranging and undefined powers (Best Interest of Baseball is not defined enough for me)you risk losing the balance of fairness to all.

By Anders

October 29, 2008 8:33 AM | Link to this

(In a hushed tone) Atlanta… Atlanta… Time to get up. It might be the last day of MLB this year. You don’t want to miss it.

By McFann O –[brr!]

October 29, 2008 8:46 AM | Link to this

Anders It might be the last day of MLB this year. You don’t want to miss it.

Try me.

By Anders

October 29, 2008 8:51 AM | Link to this

(In a stern voice) Atlanta get up right now! Game 5 of the WS concludes today and you are going to watch it wether you like it or not. If you weren’t up all night daydreaming about acquiring Peavy, an outfield bat and various other needs you wouldn’t be so tired today!

Now put your Chipper jersey on and get ready for the game. Don’t make me post this again!

By Shaun

October 29, 2008 8:58 AM | Link to this

Anders, both managers presumably agreed beforehand that the game would be postponed in the event of heavy rain than would not allow play to continue. I don’t think the Denkinger situation would be the same because I doubt the managers would agree beforehand to that any call is reviewable by MLB.

I do agree it would have been nice to clue in the fans about the decision to play the game in its entirety.

Speaking of the Denkinger call, the Cardinals should have won anyway. Orta was the leadoff hitter. The Cardinals also let a pop foul drop and had two passed balls. Not to mention two line-drive singles they gave up that inning.

It’s kind of like Game 6 in 1986. Buckner is the scapegoat but the Boston relievers deserve so much more of the blame. The game was tied by the time Bucker blew it.

There is a very interesting article on espn.com about some what-ifs in World Series history.

By Lew

October 29, 2008 9:00 AM | Link to this

Scoots-Mound Hugger? Only on line drives through the box. Who was the Wise Man that said “Pitching will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no pitching”? Oh wait. That quote wasn’t originally about pitching, was it?

Wurlitzer quiz. Who was it that made that quote originally? I’ll settle for the author or the character that said it. The context is not important. A portrait of your choosing for the correct answer. Got to do something to liven up a snowy day in Vermont.

Email the answer to LewHartman@comcast.net

By McFann O –[brr!]

October 29, 2008 9:04 AM | Link to this

Anders Game 5 of the WS concludes today and you are going to watch it wether you like it or not.

Mmf…wake me up when the Rays take the lead.

By Thrillhouse44

October 29, 2008 9:04 AM | Link to this

Anders, I had heard that about Vegas paying out as if the Phillies had won. What I haven’t heard is what they’re going to do if the Rays win tonight. Do you know? How can they not recognize a Rays’ victory tonight?

By Anders

October 29, 2008 9:21 AM | Link to this

Shaun

Why do the managers and owners involved get to agree/decide this? That’s my point. The rules are the rules. If we’re going to use the Best Interest of Baseball excuse that’s a pretty subjective criteria.

Again, I agree it was a common sense idea but so is correcting an obvious incorrect WS deciding call - no? Who would want to win a title under that circumstance? I don’t view that as any different than not wanting a rain shortened game to end the WS.

Selig opened this bottle and he can’t get the Jeanie back in now. The correct way to have dealt with this was to have considered it in the off season and have it openly adopted as WS policy. By secretly deciding hours before the game with a select few he has set a precedent, which is how most law cases are decided. I understand that due to MLB’s anti-trust exemption they can pretty much do what they want and a case like this would not see the light of day but they have opened themselves up to public scrutiny and second guessing. Selig just rarely has the right insticts in my book. He professes to do what’s right for the game which invariably almost always falls into whats best for the owners. Coincidence? I think not.

By Lew

October 29, 2008 9:30 AM | Link to this

Damn that was quick. Thrillhouse has just laid claim to the title of Old Hippie. He identified the Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers of ZAP Comix fame as the originator of the quote. R Crumb would have worked too.

Thrillhouse-Let me know what portrait you would like. You have the email address. Congratulations. You’re the winner of the Comeback Wurlitzer.

By Bill

October 29, 2008 9:31 AM | Link to this

Thrillhouse: Vegas is treating the three and half inning as another game. It’s crazy but that’s what they said would happen.

By Anders

October 29, 2008 9:33 AM | Link to this

Thrillhouse44

Tonights game is a new bet. Vegas closes the books everyday. Whoever you bet on for tonights game is your action.

Tonight will only be an action bet, there won’t be a listed bet because there aren’t any real starting pitchers which is what listed means. Action means your bet is in no matter who pitches. Had you bet the Phillies “Listed” the other night and for some reason Hamels (the listed pitcher)didn’t start your bet would have come down.

By Braveheart

October 29, 2008 9:43 AM | Link to this

Didn’t realize Anders is such a degenerate gambler.

Congrats Thrillhouse. Long overdue Wurlitzer for you.

By kdbanks

October 29, 2008 9:53 AM | Link to this

I don’t want to see Griffey or any other old guy out in LF. If we can’t get a solid and somewhat proven young hitter out there I’d rather do a lefty-righty platoon with two of our in-house guys. Got to get younger and faster!

I know the team needs some power out of the position as well, but I’d rather spend less, build experience and get some young, fast legs then overpay for 15-20 homeruns for a one-year band aid. It’s not unreasonable to think a platoon of Diaz and one of our kids could hit 15 dingers (love that word) and I don’t see how having Griffey for 100 or so games is better than that.

By Shaun

October 29, 2008 9:54 AM | Link to this

Anders, first of all, the Denkinger call wasn’t the sole World-Series-deciding event. Again, the Cardinals should have won even with the bad call.

Second, Selig essentially just changed the scheduling and rules regarding rain-outs, but he’s not really changing the fundamental rules of the game (like five balls is a walk).

Third, I’m guessing MLB, the managers and owners get to decide on the best interest of the game at this point because they know the uproar that ending a World Series game after 5 innings would cause.

Fourth, bad calls are part of the game, for better or worse. Not using that as an excuse at all (I’m for things like replay and a detailed umpire rating system) but there are bad calls that go both ways simply because no umpire is perfect. So it would create more problems than it’s worth to correct every single bad call in the name of the good of the game.

So correcting bad calls is going to create logistical problems and there is no simple solution right away. Overriding rain-out rules is a simple thing that avoids problems.

By Thrillhouse44

October 29, 2008 10:02 AM | Link to this

Lew, thanks man! I’ll look over your site and shoot you an email soon. That’ll be my first Wurlitzer and I’m definitely stoked about it. However, I would like to clarify, despite being “an old married man” now, I’m a young hippie. At least I like to think so.

Bill, Anders, thanks for the info. That makes sense.

By Shaun

October 29, 2008 10:04 AM | Link to this

Anders, is waiving the rules to play a World Series game in order to make it the length of a non-weather-interrupted game simply what is best for the owners?

I’m not a huge Selig fan but in this case, it seems he was just trying to avoid the would-be uproar caused by ending a World Series game in the 5th or 6th inning. That’s a little different than setting a president that every bad call in the World Series must be overturned.

By Thrillhouse44

October 29, 2008 10:08 AM | Link to this

Braveheart, thanks. The lack of Braves on cable here put a hamper on the quality of my posts this year. I’ll talk Mrs. House into the Extra Innings package next year.

By Lew

October 29, 2008 10:11 AM | Link to this

Braveheart-You’re right-Thrillhouse’s award IS long overdue. It’s overdue for several others, too. I’m now able to draw with no major problems and we seemingly have passed beyond our proclivity towards invective and vitriol laden posts, so maybe we’ll just have to award a few more Wurlitzers this winter. It’s already snowing up here so maybe it’s time to hibernate and draw pictures.

By Shaun

October 29, 2008 10:12 AM | Link to this

I don’t think the Braves should go after Griffey either. He was solid against righties but not overly spectacular, and he offers little defensive value or value on the basepaths at this point in his career. Obviously his contract demands would factor into it, too, but I can’t see him being worth it.

By David O'Brien

October 29, 2008 10:18 AM | Link to this

Shaun, good post at 9:54. I agree on all points.

Anders, sorry but I don’t feel like telling Joe Buck and Tim McCarver everything that was told to team officials beforehand is the grievous mistake you make it out to be.

He should’ve told us all in the media, then we could have told fans. But it’s not a sinister, grievous mistake, at least in my opinion. So many in the media seem to let their personal feelings color their reaction to this news, to not being “in the know” ahead of time. Relax, folks. It won’t happen again, there will be a rule now.

But sympathy for TV guys? Please. The networks have been the cause of so much of the garbage that already ticks most of us off, like starting times (8:30, not 7, solely for ratings. And don’t even THINK about a day game in the Series.)

Buck and McCarver are broadcasters. “Hanging them out to dry,” as you put it, is some sort of extreme oversight that, what, should get Selig canned? I don’t think so. No, not at all.

Hey, I’m not a big fan of some things Selig did for much of his tenure, including the All-Star Game tie and the absurd decision to allow the All-Star Game outcome to decide home-field advantage, a decision he defends and thus a mistake he refuses to even acknowledge, much less fix.

But I’m also objective enough to acknowledge when Selig makes a good move or uses the considerable power of his office to make a smart, unilateral decision, such as this one — no World Series game, and certainly no potentially decisive one, should be shortened by rain. That’s common sense. Now it’ll be a rule in the books, you can count on it.

His mistake the other night, in my opinion, was not stopping the game an inning or so earlier, when it was obvious to everyone that the field was unplayable and radar showed it wasn’t going to get anything but worse. Made him look silly.

But back to unilateral decisions: Roger Goodell has already used his considerable powers as NFL commissioner to make strong decisions that p’d off some people, but in my view were good for the game. So has the NBA’s David Stern, on many occasions in the past.

By Anders

October 29, 2008 10:21 AM | Link to this

Shaun

I used the Denkinger call as a reference point as most are aware of it. I realize it wasn’t series decidin