Braves

By Mr. Snrub

October 24, 2008 4:29 PM | Link to this

what do i win?

By nolie

October 24, 2008 4:39 PM | Link to this

I wouldn’t mind giving Swisher a shot, he will probably bounce back. It was kinda wierd that he came to Chicago, a hitters park, to have a bad year. I wouldn’t give much for him though coming off that poor a year. Also, although I am into modern stats to an pretty large extent, I am old enough to have a bias against guys with low batting averages even if their OBP is good. I gotta admit that I would prefer both a high OBP and a decent average. So in that respect Swisher is biorderline for me.

By geauxbraves2000

October 24, 2008 4:43 PM | Link to this

The idea of getting Peavy is exciting, but if it doesn’t come to pass, I’m not going to pine for someone the Braves never had to begin with. The brass is talking Hanson up like he is the real deal, and if he really is, he could be the next Smoltz or Glavine or Maddux. I say keep the minor league system in tact, try to sign a couple FAs, and if need be, utilize a little of the minor league depth near the deadline.

Geaux Braves!!

By Archbishop of Canterbury

October 24, 2008 4:45 PM | Link to this

Dear Dave, “4 years left on a very reasonable 59 million dollar deal”. I bet you were a big fan of Marie Antoinette. Try turning off ESPN, and check out the news channels. This is going to get REAL ugly and you’re chirping about ” 4 years left on a very reasonable 59 million dollar deal”. “WOW” is not an even close to appropriate response to that level of stupidity.

Hey AJC readers, any of you facing economic distress??? Talk to Dave. 59 mil—No problem. I do believe you are about to be proven very wrong!!!!! It will be a problem. And we have seen NOTHING!!!

Just a 66 year old retired accountant. Should be okay with the wife and myself. Wonder how many of your 45-60 year old readers have figured out yet that a second long career as a Greeter at Wal-Mart awaits??

By Efrim

October 24, 2008 4:45 PM | Link to this

DOB

I’m not sure Devall and Kimbrel can be traded because they were just drafted last June. I thought that you had to wait a year for them to be eligible. Maybe I am wrong.

Great blog and good to hear Wren is sticking to his words.

Also, I think Burnett gets something in between Lowe and Sabathia…..which could very well be 5 years and 90 million. Crazy. But the market is going to be out of control this winter.

By CRon

October 24, 2008 4:46 PM | Link to this

“McMurtry coming to Atlanta” Bummer. At first I thought you were talking about Craig McMurtry.

By McFann O –[brr!]

October 24, 2008 4:49 PM | Link to this

Thanks for the new Blog, Chief!

By Caleb

October 24, 2008 4:53 PM | Link to this

DOB, have you heard if insurance will pay for any of Hudson’s salary next year while he’s recovering from Tommy John surgery? If so, do you think any of that money will go into the Braves’ coffer for free agents?

By Brian

October 24, 2008 5:05 PM | Link to this

OK, at first I said it will be around early Dec. before we get Peavy, then I said we probably wouldn’t get him, now I say we’ll get him early Nov. Oh well, that’s baseball for ya!

DOB- If you run into Victorino, give him a good flick in the ear for us! That should feel good in the cold weather!

By Whopper Dawg

October 24, 2008 5:06 PM | Link to this

If we have two pictures that can be “plugged into a rotation”, by all means, plug them into ours!!!!!!!!!!!!

Don’t follow the mistakes over the past five years, i.e. trading the prospects for the magical one or two pieces we are missing to contend. It hasn’t worked and won’t. Bite the bullet, develop the kids.

The Whopper

By rotgut athens

October 24, 2008 5:07 PM | Link to this

he dave did u get to see widespread panic last weekend? lots of great tunes!!! 3 dog night and neil young covers

By N Nine

October 24, 2008 5:08 PM | Link to this

DOB in game day mode today. Quick flight out early in day to another stadium with a new blog. Go Rays!!

By LKS

October 24, 2008 5:10 PM | Link to this

Please FW don’t take a crappy ss off their hands when we have a STB All Star. Please Please Please dont trade Escobar. HE should be untouchable. Almost every defensive play of the game this past year was Escobar making an unbeleivable throw to first or catch showing his range. There were AT LEAST 4 games this past season that came down to him being CLUTCH with either the walk-off homerun (I can remember 2 maybe 3 games he did that) or walk off hit. What other players did that? I don’t remember very many and I watched almost every game this past season. We will lose a whole lot more one run games next year without a player like Escobar. Please just don’t trade him. Trade Kelly!!!!!!! I like Kelly but where Escobar won us 3-4 games with his clutch hits, Kelly lost us 3-4 games with his bad defense.

By Maniac is accurate

October 24, 2008 5:13 PM | Link to this

Got any songs by Craig McMurtry or Larry McMurtry? Hey, while the Archbishop was rude, I wonder if he won’t have a point. With businesses having the possibility of really tanking big time, surely that will affect the gigantic contracts. It has to.

I hope the Braves resign Hampton. He was pretty dang good once he got back.

By Lew

October 24, 2008 5:17 PM | Link to this

Archbishop-Have the words Bitter, Bent and disgruntled ever been used to describe you? I’m betting they have. Not all of us nearing retirement are totally freaked out. Some of us may actually be in fair shape despite the tanking stock market-even if we never took an accounting class. Have you had much

By Seymour

October 24, 2008 5:18 PM | Link to this

I think it will be interesting to see if Francoeur’s name comes up in trade talk. Unfortunately, I do not think this past year was as much of a fluke as his previous couple, actually. When Don Sutton left for Washington he said Jeff only had a slider-speed swing. Every time I have watched Jeff bat, I have to agree. He just has a herky kind of slow swing, and he seems to get the majority of his hits when pitchers throw him something off-speed or breaking. I personally would like to see us get something in exchange for him. Certainly, the last thing I would want is for the Braves to sign him to a big contract like McCann, who is definitely the real deal.

By Drew

October 24, 2008 5:21 PM | Link to this

DOB

Drove by the Trop today. Looked awful. I thought about going in and asking somebody how to sell the place out. They would have responded “Get to the World Series”.

The Braves should take notice.

By Wayne

October 24, 2008 5:30 PM | Link to this

Thank you Frank Wren! It does my heart good to know that Tom Hanson will be wearing the Tomahawk on his chest for the next few years.

As for Peavy, if you can get him for what is a fair price (knowing we have to give up talent to get talent), then good luck. He would be a great addition in 2009.

(PS FW: Lets try to keep Schafer too if you can?)

By Bring back John Schuerholz

October 24, 2008 5:33 PM | Link to this

I guess Wren thinks he can get Peavy for Jo-Jo Reyes and Martin Prado. He is delusional thinking the Padres want to give him a young ace in his prime and on-the-cheap for the Braves’ organizational scrap.

By roan st

October 24, 2008 5:36 PM | Link to this

Didn’t Peavy miss time this season with a “strained elbow”. Is it just me or do a lot of these guys with “strained elbows” one season end up having surgery the next. Does mike gonzalez ring a bell. How about rafael soriano? I hope frank wren sticks to his word and doesn’t trade our top talent for MR. “strained elbow”. I say be patient and let some of our top prospects make it to the bigs. A lot of teams have employed this strategy and it seems to have worked out well for them.

By Jay

October 24, 2008 5:43 PM | Link to this

Wren is starting to p** me off. These “prospects” almost never pan out the way you envision. If you have to include Hanson (an unproven arm - and not a can’t miss type, according to most) to get one of the best pitchers in baseball you do it every day and twice on Sunday. Also, how can you have 2 minor league CFs who are nearly the same age be “almost untouchable!” NEWS ALERT: they won’t both be manning CF for the Braves at the same time!! Prospects should be used to improve your club at the ML level any time you get the chance. I agree that they shouldn’t trade Yunel, and understand that Heyward is untouchable - he is a rare talent and position guys are much more predictable. However, anyone else should be used as trade chips, if necessary. We are not getting Peavy without including a top guy. Medlen, Morton, Medlen, Rohrbourgh, Flowers, etc would only be throw-ins - Towers isn’t stupid and isn’t going to accept our fringe guys for his best player.

By David O'Brien

October 24, 2008 5:51 PM | Link to this

Also, I think Burnett gets something in between Lowe and Sabathia�..which could very well be 5 years and 90 million. Crazy. But the market is going to be out of control…Efrim

Apparently you didn’t read the Archbishop of Canterbury’s post above. Which, if I’m not mistaken, predicted that baseball is going to follow the rest of the economy into the toilet and teams will go bankrupt when stadiums are empty this summer, and those guaranteed contracts aren’t going to be paid and … well, something like that. The comment was too heavy for me to fully understand.

By David O'Brien

October 24, 2008 5:55 PM | Link to this

Efrim, didn’t mean to insinuate those guys might get traded NOW, so I’ll take their names out to avoid confusion.

By GT

October 24, 2008 5:55 PM | Link to this

Better hope Mike Hampton isn’t Wren’s idea of signing “one or two proven veteran starters”.

Sheets seems to have fallen off a lot of people’s wish list, I guess because of the time he’s spent on the DL. Still, he is a #1 starter, and I’d like to see the Braves make a run for him while other teams are mired in the bidding war for Sabathia. Sheets has been pretty dominant against the rest of NL East over the last few seasons.

By roan st

October 24, 2008 5:55 PM | Link to this

Jay, if he is so great and has such a “reasonable contract” then why are the Padres trying to trade him? Sounds like they are worried that “strained elbow” won’t be dominant next year. BTW, he had a record of 10-11 this past season.

By David O'Brien

October 24, 2008 5:59 PM | Link to this

Drew, it is an eyesore of a stadium, no question about it. God bless ‘em, they’ve done all they could to make the interior a little more pleasant for baseball, but there’s just so much you can accessorize and paint, and only so many cheesy tiki-hut bars you can build in the outfield.

It’s still sterile, artificial, lame.

But the Rays are three wins from being World Series champions, which sure could help them get that elusive funding for a new ballpark.

Then again, the Marlins didn’t get a park after winning two Series, so who really knows?

And that’s one area where I do think the horrible economy could hit home in baseball, in the new construction of parks with public funds. For the time being, that’s surely going to be a difficult proposal, I would think. A lot of teams are probably very relieved they got ballparks built when they did.

By ccrider

October 24, 2008 6:03 PM | Link to this

DOB, I just had a thought(I know it surprised me too). Tyler Flowers is, between High A and Arizona, putting up some pretty impressive numbers. Average, Power and OBP. I know he is blocked at catcher and like Saltalamachia is being presently kept at catcher to raise his trade value. I know he can play some 1st base, but is he athletic enough to move to the outfield, maybe leftfield. If so, he might become the answer to a cheap power hitting leftfielder we need in another year, thus only needing a stop gap LF now. Schafer in center, Flowers in left and either an improved Franceour(would have to be much better) or Heyward in right would sure make for a force to reckon with. Flowers, Schafer and Heyward are all showing remarkable discipline for their ages. Do you get any sense that Flowers might be on the NO-trade list as well?

By Jack

October 24, 2008 6:07 PM | Link to this

I agree Wren hasn’t made one good move yet! Why the Hell isn’t Dave O’Brien asking any tough questions. Atlanta Media is weak. It’s the only paper in the country that allows their Beat Reporter to spend half his time reviewing coffee house music. Come on Dave go after him!

By jack

October 24, 2008 6:18 PM | Link to this

Sorry Dave… I don’t mean to take it out on you but I see these two young teams in the World Series and realize what we took for granted here in Atlanta. I actually a agree with some of the music stuff too. I’m just frustrated with this team!

By David O'Brien

October 24, 2008 6:18 PM | Link to this

NEWS ALERT: they won’t both be manning CF for the Braves at the same time!!Jay

No, but one could sure be in LF and one in CF, with Heyward in RF.

But I would add again, Wren didn’t name these two. This is from conversations I’ve had with people, deductive reasoning, and educating guessing/speculating.

I didn’t say Gorkys and Schafer were considered untouchable, I said I though they were probably close to that status. But the only prospects that I think are really untouchable are Heyward, Teheran and probably Hanson. And Jurrjens — no longer a prospect obviously — also isn’t going to be traded.

By Dan in NJ

October 24, 2008 6:19 PM | Link to this

I want to know what people might value these prospects in $$$ terms? If they’d be free agents sort to speak.

Hanson = $$$? Esco = $ ? Schafer = $ ? and so on.

Again, Peavy = $16 mil.? + the farm(whatever their value would be).

C.C. = $23 mil.? NO farm.

Then explore other starters such as Grienke. A solid # 2. That wouldn’t take the farm to obtain.

C.C., Grienke, JJ, as the top 3. plus if smoltz comes back as a starter(praying he does). If so all I can say is WOW.

As for C. Morton, I believe he needs a little time and experience. Just like M. Pelfrey of the Mets. Pelfrey is coming around just fine. Hopefully so does C.Morton. He has the stuff to do so.

Future Rotation would be all young Studs, C.C(only high priced player) JJ(cheap), Morton(cheap), Hanson(cheap) and lets say a Grienke trade and sign long term. Awesome rotation for years to come.

Again I’d love to have Peavy, but not at a crazy price. ONE more thing…C.C. is a HORSE, just look at what he did with the Brewers, always looking to go the distance / complete game. That would also help the b.pen out. Knowing that maybe Morton won’t go deep into the game as a #5. The ace(c.c) would give the pen a break the next day.

By Ron

October 24, 2008 6:21 PM | Link to this

Dave, any idea of who the Braves are looking at to fill their outfield needs? Who would you give the edge to?

By David O'Brien

October 24, 2008 6:23 PM | Link to this

Yeah, Jack. Good point. Time to “Go after” Wren. Frank, why the hell aren’t you making trades and signing free agents like all the other teams?

What’s that? Free-agent filing period hasn’t begun yet? And no trades have been made yet? Oh.

By Dan in NJ

October 24, 2008 6:30 PM | Link to this

Hey Jack,

NO GOOD moves??? LMAO

JJ(and gorky), Infante, Ohman, ring a bell. I guess you believe they were bums this year. And not to mention getting someone like Kotchman(and a minor league P) for Tex. who was a free agent to be.

Hit the road Jack, and ……

By jack

October 24, 2008 6:32 PM | Link to this

Dave… Calm down! If you would have read my follow up post you would have seen I would read I am just frustrated. By the tone of your email so are you.

By David O'Brien

October 24, 2008 6:36 PM | Link to this

Ron, I think a lot of that depends on A., how much they have to spend to get two starting pitchers, and B., which guys, other than the obvious free agents, might be made available in trade or perhaps be non-tendered, though you can’t expect many non-flawed OFs in the latter.

By mark

October 24, 2008 6:38 PM | Link to this

I think the Braves are at least 2 years away from contending again..

By Dan in NJ

October 24, 2008 6:43 PM | Link to this

Jack as for this off season? like DOB nobody has made moves, and no one will til after the series.

By big o

October 24, 2008 6:44 PM | Link to this

dude, do you ever listen to any hip-hop ? I noticed I got no rsponces on my bring back A.Jones with the Dodgers picking up most of his salary. Could you ask WRen about that or has that ship sailed. Check out dewights best cheese steake in philly. You are in a swing state .. oh my bad Obama is up by ten points there. Maybe you could check out the falcons on sunday.

By jack

October 24, 2008 6:45 PM | Link to this

Sorry for the typing errors(working off the blackberry) When I said that Wren hasn’t made any good moves I meant since he became GM. Remember I am a Braves fan like you.

By Wayne

October 24, 2008 6:46 PM | Link to this

Come on Dave, why don’t you grow a pair and ask some of those tough questions, huh??

:-)

(thanks for your work, btw)

By Original Jon

October 24, 2008 6:48 PM | Link to this

Mark i think you are 2 apples short of a fruit basket.

By Original Jon

October 24, 2008 6:53 PM | Link to this

Dont trade the farm for Peavy, just dont do it, if you can get Peavy for what we want to give, then ok, but the Untouchables have be just that, Untouchable. If we cannot get Peavy, throw some money at Lowe and see if he will bite, if not, move on to Burnett. Then after one of those sign, go after Garland or a Japanese pitcher, fill the void in left by trading for them, its simple math really.

LOL

By Doc Holliday

October 24, 2008 6:53 PM | Link to this

Lew

I dont think the Braves will run away with that kind of magic act………. an ACE, a good #2 or #3 pitcher and a power bat wont be easy to get without giving Hanson away……. other GMs are not stup….. you know. They know what we have, and you can be sure they also want it. And they know we are desperate, and you bet we are. If great (not only good but great) acquisitions are made, get ready for another 4th place if not worse (taking in account that we wont have Hudson for most of the year and Chipper will be a year older).

By bfan54

October 24, 2008 6:57 PM | Link to this

My great appreciation for the job DOB does in listening and responding to the “wit and wisdom” of the blog.

Archbishop has a point, about the state of the economy, and his reaction at Dave’s rather blythe obseration that “4 years and $59 million was very reasonable” - let’s face it, there’s more that a disconnect. Taxpayers, those both with and without jobs, have provided the lion’s share of the funding for the great majority of stadia today. Ownership greed and player greed just don’t play too well in this economy - would that they had no place in ANY economy.

But - and this may go a long way to explain why it happens- I plan another ‘road trip’ (this time) to see Atlanta (again), Cincy, Louisville, Detroit, Toronto, and Toledo (with Pitts/Clevand possible substitutes). Cheap seats, you bet, but $8 beers, very, very few.

The beat goes on…the heart plays it!

By Original Jon

October 24, 2008 7:00 PM | Link to this

Jack Wren hasnt made any good moves?? Seriously? He has done just well if you ask me. He traded for Kotsay who was good while he was here, got Will Ohman and Infante, both really good this year. Jurrjens and Gorkys for Renteria. heck, Kotchman and the pitcher we got wasnt that bad either. So what do you mean he hasnt made any good moves??

By bravesfan54

October 24, 2008 7:04 PM | Link to this

Wouldn’t Saltamachia have been on that “untouchable list” a few years ago!

By Joe M.

October 24, 2008 7:11 PM | Link to this

Thank you Frank Wren! It does my heart good to know that Tom Hanson will be wearing the Tomahawk on his chest for the next few years.

Again: I am SO going to LOL WHEN Tommy Hanson stinks up the joint. He is just another is a long list of WAY overhyped Braves’ pitching prospects.

Dan Meyer, Kyle “too good to give up in the Tim Hudson trade” Davies, Chuck James, Jo-Jo Reyes, Macay “first round pick” McBride, Jose Capellan and more anyone?

The prospect-huggers who think every young player in the organzation is a lock to be good are in for a rude awakening.

JJ(and gorky)

Trade started under SCHUERHOLZ. Reported widely last year. Do try to keep up. Infante and Ohman was okay, but Ohman is leaving and Infante is just a bench player.

Wren’s other moves:

1. Signing Albert Belle to HUGE deal.

2. Leaving without Cal Ripken, Jr.

3. Trading the good Joey Devine for a one year of a mediocre Mark Kotsay.

4. Failing to get Jason Bay.

5. Bringing Francoeur back after a long-weekend.

6. (Soon): Failing to get Peavy.

By TennesseePaul

October 24, 2008 7:15 PM | Link to this

I was under the impression that Bud Selig doesn’t like big moves to be made during a World Series so as to keep the focus on the field during the games… I recall that being part of the critism tossed at Boras last season when he pulled the A-Rod stunt. I’d imagine that might have some impact on the lack of big moves happening now.

By bravesfan54

October 24, 2008 7:16 PM | Link to this

Dave - not to sound too much like a socialist, but that “elusive funding for a new stadium”, dude, is your euphemism for “you and me and Bobby McGhee”. These are touch times. A cool billion of taxpayer dollars are building the New Yankee stadium - ok, that’s in “rich” New York, but in Tampa, Florida (my state), the courts have laid off clerks, prosecutors, process servers, child protective investigators, and Sheriff’s Deputies. And that’s just the so-called “public sector”.

Yes, I AM impressed with the projected/proposed new Rays Stadium - but this is an obscene idea in an era that is by the most optimistic predictions a recesssion to end all recessions. (Wiser heads than me still refer to the “tsunami” effects of this failing economy.

Don’t misunderstand me, I am not a “doom and gloom” guy - while these are indeed tough times, we will weather. Ain’t business as usual, ‘tho, dude. Sho nuff aint!

By Amit

October 24, 2008 7:16 PM | Link to this

Thanks for the update DOB, i personally think frank wren is doing the right thing by not wanting to trade away the “next wave of talent”, i dont mind being a mediocre team for the next year or two if we have major league ready talent on the rise. For this year if we could trade for someone like Matt Cain or maybe sign Livan Hernandez, it would give our prospects some time to develop more. Cain, Hernandez, Jurrjens, Campillo and maybe hampton wouldnt be a bad rotation…they would eat innings! Cant count on hudson till maybe mid August and thats if he has no set backs.Getting a veteran power hitter in the outfield is the next priority…Raul Ibanez or Josh willingham maybe? Bullpen looks decent right now with moylan in about may, soriano, gonzo, need to resign ohman…carlyle, bennett and boyer

By ccrider

October 24, 2008 7:23 PM | Link to this

Dave, I asked above about the possibility of Flowers being moved to leftfield to get his avg. OBP and power in the lineup. Is he athletic, at least as good as Pat Burrell? I know they want to keep him at catcher(higher trade value), but if he had the ability to catch, play 1st and LF, he could be very valuable!

By Joe M.

October 24, 2008 7:25 PM | Link to this

Wouldn’t Saltamachia have been on that “untouchable list” a few years ago!

Yep. In fact, it went much further than that. Go look at the archives for around July 20th, 2007 till the time of the Teixeira trade and you’ll see plenty of posts saying to trade McCann and keep Saltalamacchia.

Are the prospect-huggers EVER right?

By Coach (Skip will be missed)

October 24, 2008 7:25 PM | Link to this

Boy, is this blog off to a rousing start or what?

I got news for our friend griping about the economy, it’s not all doom and gloom everywhere. Up here in the great frozen north country (North Dakota), things are booming. Our oil strike (best kept secret in America) has the state economy stuck with a billion dollar surplus of cash.

At any rate, baseball seems to be immune to economic trends. As for Frank Wren, give the man a break. He has an unenviable task. In fact, it’s almost impossible How to rebuild virtually the entire rotation and outfield.

How about you folks just cutting the man some slack, Ok?

p.s.

O’Brien, your pick to win the WS is in serious trouble. It may be tied 1-1 right now, but the Phillies look like they are outgunned.

By BravesFanInRockies

October 24, 2008 7:32 PM | Link to this

ccrider,

Wondering the same thing. Flowers has always said he wants to improve his defense behind the plate and won’t ask to move but with Heap (and probably Freeman) blocking him at two positions you wonder why the Braves wouldn’t consider a position change. Dude looks like a monster at the plate.

If the Braves were in the AL this wouldn’t be a problem — you let him back up McCann and DH. But they’re not, of course.

By David O'Brien

October 24, 2008 7:34 PM | Link to this

What a scene as I left the ballpark. Directly across the street is Lincoln Financial Field, where the Eagles play, and across from that is the old Spectrum and the Comcast Center, the old and current homes of the Sixers and Flyers.

So tonight, starting at roughly the same time, there’s an Alan Jackson concert at the Spectrum and, at the larger Comcast Center, there’s a rap show with Jay-Z, T.I., T-Pain and someone else I can’t recall. All of those fans for both shows were arriving at the same time, on the same street, entering the same parking lots.

Talk about your busy weekends, consider what’s happening out at that stadium/arena complex: Two concerts tonight. Tomorrow, a World Series game. Sunday, a World Series game, the Eagles-Falcons game, and The Who concert (going at the same time as the World Series game, right across the street)….

ccrider, Flowers is a big man. Not as big as Burrell, but big, and he’s never played the OF. Haven’t heard of any discussion of moving him to the OF. I’d guess he’s already got enough on his plate learning to hit at each higher level while playing some at two positions…..

By David O'Brien

October 24, 2008 7:44 PM | Link to this

bravesfan54, you really, really don’t need to tell me — or, I dare say, anyone else who bothers to watch the news and/or read the newspaper — that times are tough, my man. Where do you think we all live, in another country unaffected by the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression?

We’ve trimmed a quarter of our newsroom staff at the paper in the past 15 months, my 401K has been bludgeoned, we have a dozen stories every day in the paper about the thousands of foreclosures in the metro Atlanta area, layoffs in virtually every dept. of Atlanta city and various county and the state gov’t., layoffs in various local factories and businesses, locally based Fortune 500 companies slashing staff … what, do you think we in Atlanta have been immune to the financial crisis you’re feeling wherever you are?

And did you read my entire comment about financing of stadiums? If so, your response is puzzling to me, in that you didn’t add anything I didn’t write in the comment.

Wait, I’d better calm down. Jack’s monitoring. Only Jack can bring the passion, the rest of us should remain calm.

Sorry

By Ranae Shrider

October 24, 2008 7:51 PM | Link to this

Ranae Shrider is a ho

By David O'Brien

October 24, 2008 7:53 PM | Link to this

Jack, follow your own advice about “calming down,” and don’t have the temerity to get upset when I respond to your insulting post with a comment about how absurd it was. You hit the post button on that sort of comment, you’re going to get a rebuttal if I feel like it. Oh, but I guess I should’ve realized that within a few minutes you’d post an apology, so i shouldn’t have replied to the first comment? Give me a break.

Calm down? No, I don’t think so. We’ll go about things the way we do it here.

By richbrave

October 24, 2008 7:57 PM | Link to this

Good to see the future of this franchise off-limits in the PEAVY sweeps - subject to change, of course. Nothing is inviolate, even WREN’s words in a world of momentary and monetary change. BURNETT for $$$$ strictly, and then PEAVY for two good prospects (none of the first six mentioned by DOB, FLOWERS and ROHRBAUGH or MEDLIN) and two or three members of the 40-man. BLANCO, DIAZ or ANDERSON, and JOHNSON or PRADO. RENTERIA returns to play plenty as needed for FA money solely. BARRETT or ESTRADA as BUC. RENT a CF for two years. We could have had ROWAND for three, but that’s last year’s decision. KOTSAY was good while it lasted. Now.? WREN will come up with the goods and LIBERTY the moola, oh ye of little faith.

By mark

October 24, 2008 8:04 PM | Link to this

jake and joe must be mets or philly fans or never watched a baseball game and not true fans. john schourlotz made some good trades and is the one you turned atl braves into a power house but is also the one you maybe made the worst trade in braves history in the tex trade. I did not really pay anttention to the farm till last year but I still knew you elvis andrues was and I lose sleep over some of the prospects they gave up and just hoping they don’t turn into future stars. andreus stole over 50 bases he could be a jose reyes and that feliz guy according to baseball america is a top 30 prospect next year and both of them are in double A and could be in the majors next year. you can’t blame the old gm he was great and he tried to make the team better but now i think the orginization is a little shy the same think will happen to peavy.

By David O'Brien

October 24, 2008 8:05 PM | Link to this

Big 0, I still listen to some old-school rap, plenty of P.E., Ice Cube, Beasties on the Ipod. Some old De La Soul and the great Fugees album. And some contemporary hip-hop like Wu Tang, Clipse, Common and Kanye (and that last Jay-Z album was very good, the one with songs “inspired” by the movie American Gangster). But not too many others these days, mostly just a few so-called “underground” bands that write about provocative topics, like Immortal Technique and Dead Prez.

Guess I’m getting too old for the other stuff — the T.I. and Lil’ Wayne and all that just doesn’t do it for me.

Oh, and please keep the political statements out of your posts. I can’t expect others to refrain if everyone doesn’t.

By jack

October 24, 2008 8:15 PM | Link to this

Your a funny guy Dave! I deserved that! White Flag

By Steve from OH

October 24, 2008 8:16 PM | Link to this

Are the prospect-huggers EVER right?

Only the ones who said not to trade McCann, Lincecum, Price, Fielder, Kinsler, Pedroia, Cain, Chipper (and Andruw, I guess) Jones, Glavine, Smoltz, Avery, and basically any other good player in the history of baseball that was considered for a trade. You do realize that every single baseball player starts off as a prospect, right?

Just because some of our previous prospects (in very recent memory) didn’t turn out doesn’t mean that this group won’t. Do you expect Frank Wren to fill every single need by trade? Then how can we fill needs from within? How will we be able to make more trades when we need to? Do you think we should just go out and sign a bunch of free agents? That’s not real smart…

Why can’t you trust the front office’s judgment? I do.

By nolie

October 24, 2008 9:11 PM | Link to this

You do realize that every single baseball player starts off as a prospect, right?Steve

and you do know that the impact player rate on a level like Peavy is just a couple of percent, right? There are about 360 pitchers in MLB and if Peavy is in the top 10, then that mikes 10/360 which is damn low, but does not even count the other pitchers that never made it at all or only had a cup of coffee. so you are probably talking 10/1000… at the best. NOT good odds on pitchers becoming Jake Peavy. And of course prediction is complicated even farther by the fact that #1 choices often tank, and 20th round guys make the HOF every so often. Any GM who falls in love with his prospects is in big trouble. The good news is that for the most part the Braves have done a good job of culling out guys who look good enough to tempt other team but who are flawed enough to not become impact players for them. So to a decent extent we likely can trust the FO judgment, though they are naturally brag on all their prospects.

By David O'Brien

October 24, 2008 9:30 PM | Link to this

Jack, good enough.

By Mike

October 24, 2008 9:46 PM | Link to this

You people saying that we should hold on to our prospects and wait a few years are delusional. First, do you realize what attedance at the stadium would be like after 3 or so more years of poor play. it would plummet. Atlanta is filled with more fair weather fans than we have die hard fans. then payroll would drop and viola! We would have to wait YEARS and YEARS moving through prospects, drafting more, moving through more and so on until we put together a bunch that works. Look at the Rays. It took them almost 10 years low spending and drafting and devloping to finally put together a postseason team. Plus, the Braves are an organization that doesnt rebuild. We re-tool and reload. We use good prospects to bring up and play AND to complete trades. Thats how big time teams, and yes we are a big time team, does it…only we do it using a little less money than the other guys (ie. Red Sox, yankees, mets) I agree with having certain players that you dont trade because they are apart of your future. Completeing good trades and signing others that dont break the bank is how this team operates. Wren is going about his business, lets let him do his thing, and be ready to route on our team in their quest to return to greatness.

Oh, and by the way, for those of you getting onto DOB about economics, go find a political blog, this is a sports blog. Baseball is not projected to have any real distress put on it by the failing economy, except for new stadium deals, like DOB pointed out. So yes, $59 mill over 4 years is reasonable for a baseball team to pay an ace pitcher.

By Steve from OH

October 24, 2008 9:55 PM | Link to this

nolie, of course I realize that. I’m saying it’s silly to trade away most or all of your good prospects for one player. Let’s put it this way: if your offered me Peavy for Hanson straight up, I would do it every day and twice on Sunday. Obviously, the real thing is way more complicated than that, but you get my drift. I was just (maybe a little to snarkily) responding to a guy that would seem to take a good amount of joy in our prospects failing if we didn’t trade them, which is absurd.

I’m saying that you have to draw the line somewhere. There comes a point where you need good prospects in your system to fill holes on your team. Don’t get me wrong, we do need Jake Peavy. I would be willing to give up a pretty good package for him, but I am unwilling to give up very good prospects that will be able to help us next season, not to mention their skill sets and good stats.

The farm system is there to provide depth to deal from. That’s where you need good talent evaluators to pick out the guys that you don’t think will help the big club (or are blocked), so they can be traded for pieces that will help your club, and to select out the guys that you want to keep in your system. That’s why I’m against trading Hanson, Schafer, Heyward, et al. I’m reading Frank Wren’s comments as a statement that they believe those guys are for real, and that they believe that they’ll contribute in the future. I mean, we do need a CF, like now, don’t we? In steps Schafer. We need pitching…in steps Hanson. Not to mention that they come with the added benefit of being under club control at very reasonable rates for six seasons.

I am more than willing to trade good prospects like Flowers, Hernandez, Rohrbough, etc. I just don’t think it’s a stretch to think that prospects like Hanson and Schafer that are very close to the majors and still producing good numbers will be good major leaguers.

That is NOT to say that the philosophy of trading good prospects is wrong by any stretch of the imagination. My personal view is that we should keep good prospects and promote from within to keep us from overspending on the free agent market, and use other prospects that are maybe blocked or a few years away to deal from. What I DO think is wrong, however, is using previous failed prospects as analogies for the current crop. If Frank did that, we’d be screwed for a long time. We (at least from my memory) have never had a pitching prospect as highly touted or, quite frankly, as dominant in the minors as Hanson. So you can see why I think comparing him to Chuck James is…well…it’s a stretch, to say the least.

So, to conclude this long, rambling post, I don’t think that one true impact player is worth three or four current or future good major leaguers. Some people want instant gratification, as in “win now at all costs,” and that is not a good organizational philosophy, in almost any context. Unless acquiring Peavy makes us an absolute lock (which it most certainly does not) to win the World Series next season (since there is no guarantee that the prospects would do that), then it might be good. Otherwise, it is folly.

By brian

October 24, 2008 9:56 PM | Link to this

DOB - if the Braves sign a free agent will we lose our 1st round draft pick or did we have a bad enough season to keep it?

By Jack G

October 24, 2008 9:59 PM | Link to this

dont confuse me with jack

Makes no difference who we get—-dont get—-keep or let go sign or dont sign, as long as Cox and his coaching staff are coming back, 2009 will be a repeat of 2008

By JC from UT

October 24, 2008 10:01 PM | Link to this

DOB: In your conversation with FW did he mention any other possible player he may be targeting whether pitching or LF?

By Steve from OH

October 24, 2008 10:02 PM | Link to this

For those of you who think the economic crisis will affect MLB, you all should check out Squawking Baseball. There are a lot of good articles there about MLB economics, and quite a few about how the New York teams are still having great success in selling luxury suites and getting sponsors for the upcoming seasons. Plus, they note that the TV contracts are locked in for ‘09 and 2010, so revenues will stay fixed on that front. Well, it’s all there, so check it out.

By Rodney

October 24, 2008 10:02 PM | Link to this

Dave, Living in New York as a braves fan is tough. You do great work and as I read it catch a lot of hell! Anytime you want to join the Miked Up show please give him a call, the NY talk radio could really use a smart voice to join Mike F. Thanks!

By Archbishop of Canterbury

October 24, 2008 10:16 PM | Link to this

Dear Lew At 5:17 PM, This obviously wasn’t addressed to you BECAUSE you have the economic means to JUSTIFIABLY have other interests. It was meant for those who go home every night worried about an impending job loss, those so upside down in mortgage that they remain buried for years, those who were 5 years away and are now devastated, those whose kids college plans have been destroyed.

Like you, I’m fine because I was LUCKY—all it was—to have been part of an IPO in 98 that turned out great, and I conservatively invested in bonds and other fixed income vehicles because it was all I had to do. However, I tend to have empathy for other people and that includes those demented enough to live vicariously through exploits of Jake Peavy while witnessing an economic global meltdown.

Maybe Jake will adopt a failed savings and loan as a symbol of his contribution to Atlanta community.

Lew, Do you REALLY think that if this continues—as it will—through next baseball season that anyone is going to give a damn about a MLB season?? In fact, if I’m Jake Peavy, cc, or anyone else being payed millions to play games during a time of great economic distress, I do believe I would not be broadcasting the reality of my good fortune. Sadly, the level of anger is going to be ratcheted up If you go back in history you will find that the last time this happened there was only a level of civility because we were ALL perceived to be RELATIVELY in the same position.

By the way, I’m not angry. I’m observing—and I SINCERELY hope I’m wrong and that Hank Steinbrenner’s spending actually means something to anyone besides the beneficiaries of his largesse.

“4 years left on a very reasonable 59 Mil deal”

“Let them eat cake”.

We are a silly group of people.

By VermontBravesfan

October 24, 2008 10:19 PM | Link to this

I love David O’Brien. Anyone with sarcasm and wit to spare is my HERO!

By Saltywoody

October 24, 2008 10:27 PM | Link to this

Question:

What is this sequence of numbers?

23, 120, 209, 135, 164, 221

Answer:

A.J. Burnett’s innings pitched since 2003.

If you get this year’s version, with 220+ innings, then yes. He’s worth pursuing.

If you get the 2006 version and pay 15 million+ for half a season? NOT worth, especially not for a team like the Braves that needs to invest money in a guy or guys that will give them quality starts.

Also worth consider? The two times Burnett’s pitched over 200 innings previously, he’s pitched less than 150 innings the following year. And this year? He threw more innings than ever before. Just saying…

By Dr Andrews

October 24, 2008 10:47 PM | Link to this

Burnett????????? This piece of excrement will make Hampton look like “Hoss” Radbourne. The Nipple-Ringed Wonder has NOT won a big game in his life. As Casey used to say “You can look it up”.

By Roman Gal

October 24, 2008 10:53 PM | Link to this

Tommy Hanson is killin’ it so far.

6 K’s through 2 innings.

By Marie Antoinette

October 24, 2008 10:55 PM | Link to this

My name has not been invoked like this in years.

Are people really earning 59 Million? That sounds like Versailles money.

People in these times do seem fixated over what other people are doing. I wish in my time people would have been so tolerant of people amassing great wealth for basically doing nothing to benefit mankind. I would have lived a longer and fuller life, and would not have seen the guillotine.

By Transplanted Jay

October 24, 2008 10:58 PM | Link to this

I agree with Dr Andrews. AJ is a DOG!!!!!! I’m thinking Welsh-Corgi. Gutless, spineless, injury prone and a whole bunch of words that you can identify solely by their FIRST letters and they are all sexist in nature.

By Archbishop of Canterbury

October 24, 2008 11:01 PM | Link to this

Love it!!!!! A Tommy Hanson reference at 10:53 on a Friday night.

By stamper

October 24, 2008 11:01 PM | Link to this

DOB - TV on the Radio tomorrow night at the Tabernacle. Obviously you can’t make it… but what do you think of those guys? I love ‘em. I’m pumped!

By Yars

October 24, 2008 11:04 PM | Link to this

Just imagine what a healthy AJ Burnett could give our rotation, along with Peavy. I just can’t see Wren going after Burnett, due to his history of injuries. Part of me wants Wren to say uck it & get him! My dream is we somehow are able to get Peavy, Burnett, & Adam Dunn, without having to give up KJ. I hope we can somehow hang onto him. now playing: *devil’s haircut by beck.

By nolie

October 24, 2008 11:08 PM | Link to this

We (at least from my memory) have never had a pitching prospect as highly touted or, quite frankly, as dominant in the minors as Hanson. So you can see why I think comparing him to Chuck James is…well…it’s a stretch, to say the least.Steve

have you looked at James stats from the minors Steve? There are no guarantees. I’d trade Schafer and Hanson fot Peavy though I wouldn’t be happy about giving up that much. The deal last mentioned that included both of them and Esco or Johnson is too steep. I agree that they should make every effort to get him without giving up one of the top 3-4 prospects, I just kinda doubt that is gonna happen. A deal for Flowers,Hernandez,Rohnbough and Morton would be great if he can get it done. I hope so, but I just think there will be too much competition for that to happen, but obviously I have no proof of that. I do know just how very few players end up being impact guys, though. The point isn’t that prospects never succeed, obviously some do very well. The point is that it is hard to know who will or won’t-look at all the frustration with how Frenchy has done so far. You play the odds and take the proven commodity and let the chips fall as they may for the prospect in the future. As i said too, the Braves have a pretty good history of culling correctly, so if they actually decide to keep those guys I will be optimistic about it..At this point we have no real way of knowing their true evaluations, it could all be rhetoric in the trading game. We’ll see. I don’t think we’re all that different in our thinking, you’re just a bigger cheap skate than I am. ;-)

By Braveone

October 24, 2008 11:19 PM | Link to this

Hanson is now out of the Arizona Fall League Rising Stars game. His line - 3 IP, 0 H, 0 R, 2 BB, 7 SO! This kid is an ace in the making! I would say he is definitely untouchable!

By randyh

October 24, 2008 11:20 PM | Link to this

what if the braves went ahead and bit the bullet and threw out the cash for sabathia, then made the deal for peavy, and picked up a decent bat ?…INSTANT CONTENDER.

By Roman Gal

October 24, 2008 11:20 PM | Link to this

By the way, Schafer is playing tonight.

Also, Eric Campbell is playing 1st base.

By Lew

October 24, 2008 11:21 PM | Link to this

Archbishop-I’m not in decent shape because I nailed an IP offering, but because I bought a house within my budget and didn’t refinance it five times to pull cash out of it, have a fixed rate mortgage at a reasonable rate and don’t have excessive credit. I don’t have tons in the stock market, either, but diversified as best I could. We’re in this shape because we realized that economic fortunes turn on the direction the wind blows and prepared as well as could be prepared under the circumstances-not because we’re well to do. late 70’s with a baby having seizures and no jobs to be had.

Look-I think we’re all aware of how screwed up everything is these days. I buy groceries and fill the gas tank just like everyone else-and pay a pretty good bit of tax as well. However, one thing I’ve learned over the years-being prepared beats hell out of running around like some guy in a filthy robe and a sandwich sign proclaiming that the World Is Coming To An End. Saw it get bad in the late 70’s, the late 80’s-we came through it then and we’ll come through it now.

If you’re really that upset about the financial structure of baseball, then maybe this is not the venue for your thoughts, as it seems the topic has you somewhat upset. Maybe you could lobby your congressman or something or petition Bud Selig. Maybe donate more to the Food Bank. That’s what we’re doing.

By Lew

October 24, 2008 11:29 PM | Link to this

Excuse me-Meant to say we went through the late 70’s under adverse conditions, so I DO understand.

By DOB to Chitown

October 24, 2008 11:44 PM | Link to this

DOB, you’re good. Good like Tony Gwynn and Ichiro playing on the west coast when 3/4 of the country is sleeping. You gotta be getting offers to leave the worst pro sports town in America. Stop Sorianoing yourself by insisting to hit leadoff and get the heck out of the ATL. They don’t deserve ya, and we need ya.

By brian

October 24, 2008 11:46 PM | Link to this

joe- us prospect huggers are giving hanson a big, big hug tonight. Check the line up above. Hanson should be untouchable and good for Wren coming out and saying it.

By brian

October 24, 2008 11:52 PM | Link to this

if Peavy falls through, do the Braves go after Verlander offering Escobar? The Braves could sign Renteria as a stop gap until either Lillebridge, Diory hernanadez, or one of the younger shortstops show they can handle the position.

No way that would happen but that would be the equivalent of the Braves trading Escobar for Verlander, Jurrjens, and Gorkys.

By big o

October 24, 2008 11:57 PM | Link to this

My bad dude… no more politcs but what about A.Jones coming back. He would have a monster rebound year and I know L.A. would pay most of his 18mil just to get rid of him to sign Manny am I dreaming ? nice choice in hip-hop groups You need to check out some oldschool goodie mob

By Tim

October 25, 2008 12:11 AM | Link to this

Bias aside, I think an offer that included Hernandez and Rohrbough as the centerpieces could get a Peavy deal done. The other three or four players that would be included could be any of the following: Morton, Reyes, D. Hernandez, Hicks, T. Jones, Flowers, Locke, Medlen, Diamond, Parr, and Marek.

By David O'Brien

October 25, 2008 12:27 AM | Link to this

big o, yes I think you’re dreaming. If I’m wrong, I’ll admit it later. But I see little or no chance in Andruw returning…

I have that Goodie Mob CD from 10 or 15 years ago, “Soul Food,” which still sounds great. Got all the Outkast up until the last couple. They lost me on Idlewild and, before that, that double CD, the two “solo” discs. Had some good songs on it, but way too much filler on those. Now, Stankonia, Aquemini, ATLiens, Southernplayalistic…. that’s great stuff.

By uga-brave

October 25, 2008 12:59 AM | Link to this

DOB,

you said the worst economy since the GREAT DEPRESSION?

are YOU SERIOUS?

that is,i dont know how to say this but you are WRONG.

if unemployment hits 12 or 15 percent maybe.

this recess is being caused by a lot of loose lending. this is not a depression.

DOB,

remember last year when in between my rants of francoeur’s shortcomings i warned that this was coming.

braveheart scoffed at me. braveheart i respect always.

i said tighen up your 401 k’s.

i told braves dave that lehman and bear stearns were in trouble.

i said that one year ago.

so now it has come home to roost, you call it a depression.

this will soon pass. i am somewhat of a skeptic. that is a stretch right?

this is a wealth changer if you have the courage to look in the right place.

the s&p 500 is trading at one of the biggest discounts in the history of the stock market.

food for thought, MGM is now trading at $10. it traded at $50 52 weeks ago.

las vevas sands traded at $140 52 weeks ago it now trades around $7.

now revpar regarding hotel rooms is a tough number to call but my bet is that they will make a comeback.

greed and fear. it will never change.

By N Nine

October 25, 2008 1:03 AM | Link to this

Thx for the great news on Schafer playing tonight/ And yes…Hanson’s Monster 7 K’s in 3 inn!!! This guy is really exciting me.

Heck lets throw Hanson in the 5th slot if his spring training looks good

Peavy,Jurrjens,Someone,Campillio, and Hanson…I’m sold

By uga-brave

October 25, 2008 1:18 AM | Link to this

sorry for the economy crap. this is a baseball blog.

i want a.j. burnett and jake peavy.

the heck with a power hitting outfielder.

give us those two guys at the top and roll the dice.

plus francoeur has already guaranteed us that his season of last year will not happen again.

if you dont believe me ask furman bisher.

so we are set in the outfield. right?

By santa3247

October 25, 2008 1:44 AM | Link to this

Trade!! Joseph Reyes(He is worse than Kile Davies) and Manny Acosta, Jeff Bennet(They always brew off important wins) and Joseph Sammon(He is AA grade) and Brent Lilibridge(He is AA grade) and Martin Prado(He is suspicious^*^) and Grego Blanco(He is AAA grade) and Joshua Anderson(He can’t hit well under the neutron sounds but he sensed something great about batting I think) prospect Jordan Scafer and Gorky Hernandez, this 10players for Jake Peavy. If brave would want to trade. You got it?

Untouchable are Matt Diaz, Yunel Escobar, Kelly Johonson, Brandon Jones, Jeff Francoeur, Phillip Stockman, Barbaro Canizarez, Diory Hernandez, Frederick Freeman, Jason Heyward I think.

And Kotchiman braves have to check udner the race for postseason in 2009. ^*^

May the force of Messiah be with you

By santa3247

October 25, 2008 1:56 AM | Link to this

Ah~~Plus Todd Redmond(He is same grade as Jair Jurjens) and Thomas Hansen(He is real prospect I think)

Look Tampabay Rays’s being champ! The real focus about baseball isn’t something like President and GM’s behavior.

By uga-brave

October 25, 2008 2:08 AM | Link to this

great, it is just me and the crazy santa guy.

By Wayne

October 25, 2008 2:15 AM | Link to this

Sounds like a lively evening on the blog tonight. I am guessing all have turned in, if you are smart.

uga I’m with you man. If we could get two horses for the rotation, what kind of a kick-azz rotation would that be with Peavy, Burnett (or fill in another hot name here), Jurrjens, Hanson and Hampton (or fill in Reyes, Campillo, Morton, whoevers left).

Get these guys going, and pick up a couple of long-shot types for the outfield. Heck, bring up Owings or Heyward and see what they have!

What would Milton Bradley need to sign? Dude is supposed to be a cancer, but sometimes cancer goes into remission???

It’s late, and I’m talking crazy now..

By ccrider

October 25, 2008 2:16 AM | Link to this

One Guys opinion: For all those ready to give Morton and Medlin away in a trade. Morton has the stuff to be a No.2 or 3 starter. He pitched well when he first came up, but was injured and tried to fight thru it. The injury cost him lost velocity and control. BE PATIENT. Medlin actually pitched almost as good as Hanson in the 2nd half of the season once he became a starter. His biggest drawback is his lack of size, but he has strikeout stuff and lack of size hasn’t hurt Roy Oswalt or Tim Lincecum. We may have a better group of pitching prospects coming than we ever expected. Jurjjens, Hanson, Morton, Medlin, Diamond, Locke, Rohrborough, Redmond and all but Locke were at AA or AAA. I think we need to be careful who we trade from this group. We may yet have 4 quality starters in this group. Try to sign D. Lowe, A.J. Burnett: if they can’t, try to sign two free agents starters like Randy Wolf and Braden Looper to 2 year contracts at reasonable costs, or Ben Sheets and Brad Penny to 1 year contracts to prove their healthy. Resign Hampton and Glavine if Healthy. Checkout a trade for a starter that won’t break the prospect bank. Justin Duchscherer, Scott Olsen, Edwin Jackson, Sean Marshall or Jon Lannan. I personally think in Jurjjens, Hanson, Medlin, Rohrborough and Morton we may have 5 future starters. I could live with a rotation of Jurjjens, Hampton, Wolf, Looper and Maybe Glavine(if he’s the old Glavine again of 2007) or Campillo for 1 year. Put the left over money into the bench, pen or LF. If, Morton, Hanson or Medlin show their ready it won’t be hard to find trade partners for solid, reasonably priced starters. I wouldn’t trade Hanson or Jurjjens at all. I would consider trading the others , but only for a Peavy, Greinke, Haliday type trade. One year from now we’ll have a much better idea what we have in these guys. BE PATIENT!

By Wayne

October 25, 2008 2:18 AM | Link to this

uga Hey, whassupp w/ the crazy santa dude?

Diaz and Diory Hernandez and Barbaro Canizaro are untouchable eh?

all i can say to that is sham-wow….

:-)

By Wayne

October 25, 2008 2:32 AM | Link to this

ccrider Excellent points. Sometimes though, I feel like I fall in love with all our prospects, and then they end up disappointing me mostly. But, you are correct, some of these guys really look like the real deal.

Personally, I would go into 2009 trying to figure out what I had, and really push for 2010. Bobby can hang around for another year, I think. It’s not like he’s on his death bed.

If we got lucky in the first half of 2009, then we pull out a few stops at the trade deadline, and go for it in ‘09. If not, then we used the year as a good opportunity to see how our guys will develop.

But, alas, this is not the Braves way.

g’nite friends…..

By ccrider

October 25, 2008 2:59 AM | Link to this

Wayne, that’s kinda my point to all the wahoos out there that want to trade all our minor league players for a quick FIX! A starting staff of Wolf, Jurjjens, Hampton, Looper and Glavine or Campillo would do three things, Let us compete (with a stronger pen and bench), let the young pitchers come up and fill in during the periods of injury we know will come and give us trade chips later in the season if we don’t hang in the race. If, we catch lightning in a bottle and stay in the race great, if not we use Wolf, Looper, Hampton and Glavine to pickup more valuable pieces , which would make deeper yet and able to have the maoney and depth of prospects to make trades or sign players in 2010

By BravesFan79

October 25, 2008 3:30 AM | Link to this

You are not alone uga-brave….

Just say no to satan, especially a crazy satan… . i mean santa… doh.. …

Santa: shouldnt you be at the bar after your gig at the mall?

By uga-brave

October 25, 2008 3:33 AM | Link to this

wayne,

my man in utah, what is going on?

burnett and peavy would be nice.

put those guys at the top and i say we take our chances?

plug in jjj and maybe hampton. i think that would work.

really would not care who would play left.

frenchy already said it would not happen again.

so there we got our power hitter.

all kidding aside, get those two at the top of rotation and we are in the game.

By BravesFan79

October 25, 2008 3:36 AM | Link to this

*Im just kidding Satan…..im glad your a fellow Braves fan……….. besides, sht… whos gonna p** off satan u know?? *

By uga-brave

October 25, 2008 3:46 AM | Link to this

gotta go the dawgs play lsu tommorow, will be at locos in buckhead today, after that will find my wife who is a nittany lion,

i really think penn st. will give ohio state more then they want to.

aint college footbal great?

who would of thought that penn state would of been in the argument?

beat the buckeyes and they go undefeated.

By big o

October 25, 2008 3:53 AM | Link to this

DOB it seems you have the old school hip hop covered you are one cool a* columnist when it comes to music. anyhoo I’m confident we can get two quality arms but we need some pop in the lineup dude. Im not sold on the kid at firsr base.. not enough pop I say we need power at 1st and in left new bats

By Bobby's Cox

October 25, 2008 4:15 AM | Link to this

DOB

Best blog of the offseason thus far. Great work.

It’s refreshing to think Hanson’s not going anywhere. The people here who say to trade him have gotten caught up in the 14+ years the Braves didn’t have early round draft picks. I.E. they couldn’t produce a good ML pitcher.

Hanson fits the bill. You go look at all the top young pitchers these days and how they dominated the minors. Look at Prices stats, Joba’s, Peavy’s, Gallardo, etc….They ALL dominated the minor leagues, and Hanson’s stats are very parallel to these players. The Braves have produced NO power pitcher that can strike out guys in the minor league system at the rate Hanson, Joba, Gallardo, Price, etc… all have. He’s the real deal.

By Bobby's Cox

October 25, 2008 4:37 AM | Link to this

seymour

Nice post about Jeff Francouer at 5:18.

I’ve been saying that all year. His bat speed is just too slow. I fully believe it’s the reason for his struggles.

Slow bat speed =having to start your swing earlier = being prone to outside breaking pitches = can’t lay off of bad pitches. It’s that simple. I believe I head Mark Grace give this analysis in the Rays/Red Sox series.

We’ll see how Jeff responds next year. I understand he’s going to slim down a bit. Hopefully that transcends into workouts that get his hands moving quicker. I’d be more surprised next year if Jeff bounces back than if he doesn’t. Hope I’m wrong.

By Veer

October 25, 2008 4:47 AM | Link to this

This msg is for Dave O Brien. Dave, You talked to Frank Wren today and yet you asked him the same repeating question that you have asked him before or what he has already said before. ABout prospects.

Why couldnt you be more direct with him and ask him if he is interested in Peavy, who is is interested in? etc etc. I dont know why you are scared. As a writer your job is to try to get as much answers as possible.

I mean I see that your last 5 blogs have centered around Peavy, Yet You didnt have the guts to ask FW about Peavy. Ok sure he might not have given you an answer but so what? If you have time to write blog after blog about Peavy, why couldnt you ask FW directly about Peavy?

I mean i felt excited as a fan that Dave will be talking to FRrank wren. I thought We as fans will get some real news but you didnt even have the guts to ask the tough questions.

By clay

October 25, 2008 5:57 AM | Link to this

can you get me a try out…this is serious too…..one chance …..just to see what they think…huge braves fan and this is my last chance..dont want it posted on the board if possible….i am dead serious…..one opportunity….can i get a try out and get clocked..i think i can get drafted if i do….honestly

By clay

October 25, 2008 6:02 AM | Link to this

will you give me one chance to see what they think

By David O'Brien

October 25, 2008 7:31 AM | Link to this

Veer, why are you up so late? You can go to bed assured of one thing, my friend: I certainly DID ask Frank Wren if he’s interested in Peavy. I’ve asked him that directly. And his reply was, and I’m paraphrasing here: I’m not going to talk about specific players we might be interested in.

That’s pretty much always the reply when asked directily about players the Braves are known to be negotiating with or talking to, or whose team they might be talking to about a trade for said player.

(I’m wondering, did you really think I never asked him directly? I always do, even if I know what the answer is going to be, as I did with Schuerholz before Wren.)

Hope that helps you rest.

By flange1

October 25, 2008 7:33 AM | Link to this

Wow, just reread the blog from last night. Must have been a full moon because all of the douches were out(sorry Grinch for stealing your word!)

Some much to respond to but not sure its worth it..

OK just one!

Veer,

Dude, are you stupid? Why would FW tell DOB what the Braves were planning? The Braves have always worked off seasons and trades in total media silence. They will not change now because YOU want to know.

They will work in silence and peace and not give away the information on how they plan to spend their money and prospects.

If you don’t know that by now, you are not much of a BRaves fan. Sorry dude……

By flange1

October 25, 2008 7:39 AM | Link to this

Sorry DOB, we were typing at the same time!

By Vol

October 25, 2008 8:22 AM | Link to this

Dave -

Any chance of bugging Wren’s phone? That might give you a little more credibility with some folks.

By Bill

October 25, 2008 8:56 AM | Link to this

You guys were wondering if Flowers could play the OF!!! Don’t know how big he is (230?) but if he can move or run good enough, I don’t see a problem. There has been alot of catchers that has switched to the infield. If he is ready, how about this!!! Use him to fill in for Mac and learn him to playd 3rd. base. He could fill in for Chipper and take over down the road. I would hate to trade a guy like him that has alot of power.

By Lew

October 25, 2008 8:59 AM | Link to this

When have the Braves’ Brass ever talked about impending trades? It wouldn’t surprise me in the least if Wren were not even looking at Peavy, but had a deal in place for half the Marlins rotation (of course that was a joke, y’all, but nonetheless). The deal is never what any of us think it will be. Did anyone even have a vague idea that the Jurrjens trade was in the works?

By Efrim

October 25, 2008 9:02 AM | Link to this

Anyone mention that Tommy Hanson struck out 7 in 3 innings of work last night in the Arizona Fall League All Star game? He didn’t allow a hit, but did walk 2.

By TommyP

October 25, 2008 9:12 AM | Link to this

Luis Valdez added to the 40-man roster.

Any of our prospect gurus wanna give us the lowdown on him?

I would assume since he’s a reliever with a nice K rate that he has a live arm.

Hanson after last night: 11.2 IP, 1 hit, 21 K, 5 BB, 0.00 ERA.

*”In the first inning, I came out a little too excited, which is something I do,” Hanson said. “But then I settled down and it was a lot of fun.

“I felt good with all of my pitches. I didn’t even know I had struck out those guys in the first. I was just trying to attack hitters and it worked out that I struck them out. Since being here, I’ve felt really good. All of my pitches are coming along.”*

By Daybed Wagmoe

October 25, 2008 9:28 AM | Link to this

On ESPN.com: What if…Bonds had thrown out Bream?

By TommyP

October 25, 2008 9:36 AM | Link to this

Daybed: Too many “ifs” in that article.

If the throw by Bonds would’ve won the game for the Pirates then that article makes sense.

But the game would’ve gone to the 10th.

The way he hit that series there was no way he’d homer.

And nailing a runner to tie a game is quickly forgotten in history.

By McFann O –[brr!]

October 25, 2008 9:42 AM | Link to this

Daybed Wagmoe—

I saw that. Oh brother!

7 K’s in 3 innings??? Shee-wiz!!

By Guy

October 25, 2008 9:53 AM | Link to this

Try turning off ESPN, and check out the news channels. This is going to get REAL ugly and you’re chirping about ” 4 years left on a very reasonable 59 million dollar deal”

The Archbishop may be right about the coming global economic meltdown… or he may be overreacting. Who knows? Either way, at this point, it’s probably a good idea to NOT watch the news too much.

Once a week or so and you’ll pretty much get the drift… the stock market plunged, the “chosen one” will win the Presidency, there are crooks in Congress and on Wall Street (really?), Lindsey Lohan wrecked another car, liquor sales are up, home sales are down, Tina Fey does a good Palin, Palin does a good Fey, survivalists are stocking the bunker with spam, sardines and beans, Putin is still an odd looking madman, Bush is an idiot, Saddam is still dead, Kim jung il is still, uh, whatever he is, yada, yada…

Think it’s insane that a player would get millions of dollars to play a stupid game? How about an actor getting millions for a movie? A rock band getting millions for a record? Insane yes, but why is that all of a sudden more insane than last year?

Frankly, I don’t like dollars and contracts constantly reported on by the media, but right or wrong, it’s become one of the main measuring sticks for pro athletes, Hollywood actors, Wall Street tycoons and such…. but it is what it is. Blame society if you need to.

Or… if you just want to wallow in grief or become a conscience of the blog to feel better about the “insanity” of anyone getting a $59 dollar deal, just think about the dollar value in the days to come. $59 mil will likely become $29.5 mil in currency value when the dollar gets cut in half.

There, now everyone hurts… is that better?

~SG~

By used cars

October 25, 2008 9:59 AM | Link to this

Dave, what do you think it would take to get Grienke. I like that thought that was espoused earlier. Lowe would be a better add than Sabathia or Sheets because of the price and experience in big games….Two other short questions….How do you think Campillo is viewed, both short and long term, internally and by other teams…It seems like no one on this blog views him as a possible fit in the rotation…He wouldn’t be the first older guy to get a chance and suceed, because he knows how to pitch batters, sort of like a 21st century Luis Tiant…Also, with Atlanta picking so high, what would their cost be if they sign a Class A free agent…they wouldn’t lose that 7th pick would they?Thanks for the time and hard work from an old sportswriter

By Dadgum

October 25, 2008 10:04 AM | Link to this

Given Wren’s stance on “untouchable” Braves, my guess is that for us to acquire Peavy will demand a third team to be in the equation. Too many scenarios to run through to blog about but can’t see the Padres dealing Peavy straight to Atlanta without getting Hanson or Jurrjens in return.

Also based on what Wren has said, one could easily interpret his remarks to indicate that Hanson will be penciled into one of the top 4 spots in the rotation. How about a rotation of Peavy,Verlander(or someone of his ilk),Jurrjens,Hanson,Campillo. I would go to war with that. I am assuming Morton & Reyes will be traded(could be Campillo) and that Glavine and Smoltz won’t return as starters. Ya’ll think about.

Rock on….I still dislike Philly.

By TommyP

October 25, 2008 10:11 AM | Link to this

Dadgum: Just as I questioned DOB (with no response)…how are the Braves going to net Peavy AND Verlander?

You ARE aware that Peavy will require a ton of prospects and Verlander is, what, 25 years old with an electric arm, World Series experience, etc.? How many prospects would it take to get HIM?

One pitcher will probably be dealt for while the other will be a signing. That LF situation looks like it could go either way but I’m thinking a deal for someone that won’t be a big enough name for the masses.

By Cubs Lose!! Cubs Lose!!

October 25, 2008 10:13 AM | Link to this

Just realized that if Tampa Bay wins it they will have won as many World Series in their existence as Phillies have won since 18!!!!!!!!!!83. AND as many as Cubs have won since 1908. I wonder if baseball fans have ever considered that “loyalty” is(or should be) a 2 way street with BOTH sides fulfilling responsibilities. I really don’t believe that ‘Cub Nation” has figured out that they are the biggest group of suckers since those poor Indians got cheated on Manhattan.

Cub fans, You are under absolutely NO obligation to continue to invest time and emotion into something that just ain’t going to work out. Go Cold Turkey, cut the cord, take the 12 Steps, any expression you want to use, but just stop it. They are not worth it. Have not been worth it since 5 years after Orville and Wilbur got it done at Kitty Hawk.

Can you tell I live in Chicago and don’t like the Cubs??

By Lew

October 25, 2008 10:28 AM | Link to this

CubsLose-Well, if you’re from Chicago and you aren’t a Cubs’ fan, then I would suppose you were a White Sox fan. How many World Series Championships have THEY won in the last 75 or so years? One, wasn’t it? I wouldn’t go crowing about the Cubs’ lousy Karma when that of the White Sox isn’t all that much better.

By David O'Brien

October 25, 2008 10:35 AM | Link to this

Bill, if you ever saw Flowers, you’d know 3B is not an option. The guy is a 6-4, 250 pounds, regardless of what he might be listed as (I asked him his height/weight at spring training). Think of a thicker Jim Thome.

By David O'Brien

October 25, 2008 10:43 AM | Link to this

Used Cars: I don’t know what it would take to get Greinke, but probably a multi-player/prospect package that includes at least one solid young starter who could fill the empty rotation spot for the Royals. It’d take a lot, that’s for sure. He’s very good, and young, and affordable.

As for Campillo, Braves view him as a solid back-of-rotation option or long reliever. Bobby Cox really likes the guy, one reason I think there’s a strong chance he’s retained rather than traded.

By Rev Buddy Greene

October 25, 2008 10:51 AM | Link to this

DOB-First thing you should go check out the Band The Legendary Pink Dots next saturday at the Earl in Atlanta they are from Amsterdam and have put out around 40-50 quite good releases.

We hear all about Peavy but do you think there is a chance a guy like Roy Halladay would become available? He would be the ideal #1 starter as he is the major leagues complete game and innings leader the last couple of years. I think that if we are going to keep a Hampton or a Glavine around who you essentually need at minimum 4 relevers each time one of those 2 pitches so someone like Halladay can give the bullpen a day off every other week or so.

As for the power hitting outfielder I dont like any of the free agent outfielders and think Matt Holiday`s production would go way down at the ted then at coors and the is NO way Bobby would ever let Manny be Manny here first thing to go would have to be those dreadlocks. Torre caved but Bobby would never cave in there. But if we get the power hitting outfielder for left field we really need to have a good center fielder because last season after Kotsay got injured the outfield defense was suspect at best.

As for tonight I am actually rooting for the Phillies but think Moyer is not going to make it out of the 4th inning.

By Archbishop of Canterbury

October 25, 2008 11:01 AM | Link to this

Dear Guy, Thank you for the reasoned, polite response. I think many are missing the point. It’s not really about Peavy getting the 59 million. It IS about people who have many more things to worry about having deluded themselves into caring about it. If you are financially secure and pretty well protected against any future dire possibilities, worry about Braves acquiring Jake all you want. However, if you don’t have health insurance, may have difficulty making mortgage payment and are in a career that is subject to impending layoffs, I really believe your thoughts would be better focused elsewhere.

I ALWAYS find the actor analogy amusing. Why I believe it is not valid?? Samuel L. Jackson is now highest paid actor for a movie. Let’s say Samuel L. turns out a clunker. That will mean that I have only wasted 2 hours of my time. Will not hold those 2 hours as very important. Also don’t have an emotional attachment to Samuel L’s performance that will linger for a period of 6 months—a baseball season. I can get over a bad Samuel performance in 2 minutes, if I “love” the Braves and a dog like Hampton or Burnett is brought in and he stinks OR gets hurt—impacting ability of Braves to have spent elsewhere, WELL, that gets PERSONAL for a lot of people. At that point you care about the 59 or 123 or 74 million because you are EMOTIONALLY INVESTED!!! You WANT and/or NEED the Braves to perform. The Braves want you to be EMOTIONALLY INVESTED!! They are counting on it.

Guy, I don’t know what you do. As I said earlier I was VERY LUCKY in a CRAZY environment in the 90’s that may never occur again. As a result I got to meet a lot of affluent to rich individuals who I would have NEVER come into contact with. I have come to the conclusion that—UNLESS they own the team—-people with a lot of money and/or those in a career with much responsibility care far less about the acquisition of a Jake Peavy than those who are trying to find a distraction. Would you agree? Ask your urologist, dentist, CPA, daughter or son’s orthodontist,or a myriad of similiar professions about the Braves’off season acquisitions. I believe you will find that the VAST majority have little to no interest. And I believe there is a very obvious reason for that.

By Billy Walsh

October 25, 2008 11:11 AM | Link to this

Good to hear that Wren is not going to trade some elite prospects. However, I hope this does not turn into a Santana situation with the Yankees refusing to trade Kennedy and Hughes or the Sox not willing to deal Bucholtz. Seeing Kennedy, Hughes, and Bucholtz all struggle this past season and seeing Hughes and Bucholtz being lit up in the AFL makes me wonder about some of the Braves top prospects. Granted its still very early for all the above mentioned pitchers, but Hughes was viewed as a cant miss prospect. I cant see the braves getting involved with bidding on Burnett or Sheets. Lowe seems to favor the Sox, and the New York media thinks that CC will be a Yankee. That does not leave much. Greinke would require a kings ransom, and I think Peavy is going to stay put. How about calling the reds and inquire on Harang. He had a sub par year but he is solid #2 starter. Don’t think the reds would move him, but its worth a shot.

By Future Wal-Mart Greeter

October 25, 2008 11:18 AM | Link to this

He’s long winded, obnoxious, and not exactly endearing, but the old Archbishop has a way of making me feel like a complete idiot for reading Baseball America. I have a retail position, on paper have lost over 150,000 in the Market, may not be able to retire until I’m 70 and daughter may have to use Florida Prepaid Program instead of going to Northwestern. So I’m wondering is Jake Peavy that important? Nothing against Peavy. He got his. Fine and dandy. American way, but what does it really have to do with me or 97% of Americans.

At least I haven’t heard jake say “I need more money to feed my family”. In the C C instance he needs a lot of money just to feed himself. A physical breakdown on a steady course to occur. Soon!

By Daybed Wagmoe

October 25, 2008 11:24 AM | Link to this

TommyP: I’m inclined to agree with you about all of the “ifs” in the article. In no way would throwing Bream out lead to all of those other results down the road, even in a hypothetical situation.

“The way he hit that series there was no way he’d homer” — maybe, but it’s not like he was Gary Sheffield-like in that series either. He hit .261 with 1 homer, and he would’ve had the 2nd at-bat of the 10th inning.

But yeah, for the most part I agree with you.

By Guy

October 25, 2008 11:26 AM | Link to this

Ask your urologist, dentist, CPA, daughter or son’s orthodontist,or a myriad of similiar professions about the Braves’off season acquisitions. I believe you will find that the VAST majority have little to no interest. And I believe there is a very obvious reason for that.

Actually, it may not be so obvious. My CPA could care less about Braves off-season acquisitions because he’s a die hard, obsessed fisherman. My dentist is a football fan, the kid’s ortho is a Yanks fan and so on.

Ask my urologist about Braves off-season moves? Are you kidding? He’s an antique collector, not a baseball fan, so he’d just look at me like I’d lost my everlovin’ mind and tell me to turn my head and cough.

If I pressed him about any baseball hot-stove talk he’d just grimace and put on the glove. Like they say about not angering the chef before dinner, it’s best not to annoy the one with the latex glove before the, uh…

By Reality Checker

October 25, 2008 11:27 AM | Link to this

DOB, I have read in Wall Street Journal that MLB teams are most assuredly worried about impact on upcoming season. Corporations will be cutting back on luxury suite purchases, lest they be perceived as greedy in a time of severe downturn. Believe many here will be surprised, although I don’t know why,on the effect this will have on pro sports. I work in county planning in a large metro area and have done a lot of studying on the subject. It has been postulated that New York Port Authority Bonds may have to be offered at 14% just to generate the necessary level of interest. Think that might have an effect?? This is not your uncle’s(unless he is 95) NORMAL economic downturn.

By David O'Brien

October 25, 2008 11:33 AM | Link to this

Hanson’s performance has me eager to get out to Arizona in a couple weeks. To the point I’m counting forward the days to see the likelihood of him pitching in one of the two or three Mesa games I’ll get to see. (See, when I scheduled the trip, I did so to see several Braves prospects, not just Hanson. That was before the whole Peavy thing broke and Hanson’s name was bandied about in the rumors, before Wren made it pretty clear Hanson won’t be dealt.)

By david

October 25, 2008 11:33 AM | Link to this

trade for peavy sign lackey and have dunn play left field i think lackey is a free agent

By informed....

October 25, 2008 11:34 AM | Link to this

I would be pretty shocked if Flowers could play LF. But that is just from somebody who knows him pretty well and has seen him run. But the kid is huge…

By David O'Brien

October 25, 2008 11:39 AM | Link to this

Reality Checker: Certainly not going to disagree with you — this is economic nightmare, not just a “downturn.” But we’ve all known that for months, even those who were so stubborn and refused to use the “r” word (recession) when it was clear that’s what we were in.

That said, I still don’t know how much it’ll affect baseball, and I certainly don’t know how you or Archbishop expect me and others who cover sports to react. Do you want us to stop covering sports? It’s the most-read section in many papers, and people want diversions, not just constant stress and thinking about the real world.

There is, always has been, always will be great passion for sports teams. Nothing will change that. The Great Depression didn’t change that. And I dare say we’re not quite in another Great Depression, at least not yet.

By 3trees

October 25, 2008 11:39 AM | Link to this

DOB - Thanks for the tip on McMurtry. Gonna check him out this time. You missed the Man in Black tribute/fund raiser at the Star Bar last night. Some great tunes and fun.

In spite of any moves or non-moves, there are too many questions marks in the lineup for me to get too excited about the Braves playoff chances next year. This group of players still haven’t proven they are a team.

Go Braves!

By David O'Brien

October 25, 2008 11:43 AM | Link to this

Future Wal-Mart Greeter: Can’t disagree with your 11:18 comment — at least the part right up to the third comma of the first sentence….

Rev Buddy Greene: I don’t think Halladay’s going to be available. Especially not after they lose Burnett to free agency….

By David O'Brien

October 25, 2008 11:49 AM | Link to this

3Trees, I hate that I missed another Cash tribute at Star Bar. I’ve heard it’s a great crowd, plenty of hardcore Cash fans. Did they have a bunch of bands playing his tunes?

By BravesFanInRockies

October 25, 2008 11:49 AM | Link to this

Archbishop and Future Greeter,

If I were between 60 and 67 and hadn’t stuffed all my retirement savings in a mattress before the meltdown, I’d be scared to death.

Fortunately, I’m a decade younger. At this point I still expect to stroke out at my desk or on the retail floor when I’m 90.

Baseball (and whatever other sports you enjoy) offers a diversion. An essential one.

Besides, Peavy’s not stealing from anyone. Whether fans will have enough money to go to games and pay his and every other player’s salaries is an entirely separate matter.

By athtown

October 25, 2008 12:04 PM | Link to this

Is it me, or does anyone else notice the number of pitching arm injuries, Huddy, Stockman, Hernandez, Soriano, etc…has increased since Leo left and took his off season throwing program, which is different than most others, with him? No, I’m not counting Smoltz, his arm went bad when he was younger…the only one of consequence than Leo presided over. Just a thought.

By David O'Brien

October 25, 2008 12:05 PM | Link to this

Some big-name NFL players have violated the league’s steroids policy. There’s a shocker. Does that mean it wasn’t just baseball players doing ‘roids all those years?

By Steve from OH

October 25, 2008 12:11 PM | Link to this

TommyP:

Here’s a little tidbit on Valdez from Baseball Prospectus:

“Valdez has a 3.15 ERA and 26 strikeouts in 20 innings, and has been even better since moving to the end-game role, having yet to allow an earned run in the ninth inning, and striking out 13 over eight frames. His command is spotty and his delivery takes a lot of effort, but with a 92-96 mph fastball and a plus slider, he has true big league potential.” (That was written in May).

To make room for Valdez, Los Bravos waived Jairo Cuevas. Valdez’s career numbers aren’t spectacular, and he seems to walk batters a bit too much. But hey, he had a great season, so I’ll bet he’ll get a good look out of ST for a bullpen spot.

Nolie:

The reason I said that about Chucky was because he was a 2-pitch pitcher with an average fastball (if that). Hanson, on the other hand, seems to have the scouting report to go with his stats, so I’m a bit more bullish on him than Chuck. But remember, Chuck did pretty well when he first came up.

And you’re right…I am very cheap, lol.

By Guy

October 25, 2008 12:19 PM | Link to this

I have read in Wall Street Journal that MLB teams are most assuredly worried about impact on upcoming season. Corporations will be cutting back on luxury suite purchases, lest they be perceived as greedy in a time of severe downturn.

Let’s see then… if I were a stat guy I’d say that all team’s budgets will sink proportionately yet the biggest budget teams will get hurt worse because of the bigger contracts. The huge gap between big and small market teams will close. Could we see another, bigger move toward baseball parity?

So, 2009 may bring more payroll parity (budget minus huge salaries) and we’ll see the first cleaned up year without residual steroid effects on players. The dreadful effect on our economy may be bad for most of us but could actually be good for baseball. A renewed appreciation for natural talent, a leveling of the playing field of teams along with less emphasis on player’s wild salaries. Hmmm…

Those pesky park adjusted, out avoiding stats can be worked on later. LOL.

On the bright side, there will be more seats available. Redistribution of seats and such. Not bad if you can get’em and afford ‘em. Everyone may need to move up a level. Those in the cheap seats may have to move to the parking lot, but overall, cheaper seats, beers and hot dogs ain’t bad for attendance. Like Buffett said, “get greedy at the Ted when luxury box owners have fear and fear buying field level tickets when luxury box owners are greedy”.

Or sumpin’ like that. If he didn’t say it he should’a.

By GSU-Lee

October 25, 2008 12:20 PM | Link to this

DOB, Don’t hit the panic button just yet. Times are obviously tough, even CB Buckner can see that, but throwing around “Great Depression” talk is a bit ill-advised.

The stock market sucks, no doubt. But the economy has not quite gone the same way. The stock markets plunged while the overall economy has dipped, for lack of a better word. I firmly believe once the new prez is elected, whether its Bam-Bam or Johnny Mac, the markets will level out and come back.

Investors are always nervous come election time because they don’t know what to expect. Once they do, the economy will level out as well. That doesn’t mean we won’t be in a recession, it just means we are almost at the bottom of this thing, I don’t think it will get much worse. But what the hell do I know anyway other than CB Buckner is blind?

By Couch Tater

October 25, 2008 12:23 PM | Link to this

Jayhawks TD. 7-7

By Harry Caray Is An Idiot

October 25, 2008 12:30 PM | Link to this

Nice to know I’m not the only one who hates the Cubs. Whenever they come to Atlanta I bring a big, old “1908” banner that seems to get their “goat”. In fact next year let’s have “1908 Day” in celebration of the 100 Year Anniversary. Their first appearance would be appropriate.

They really are NEVER going to win it. It’s one of the most endearing things in sports. 100!!!!! Years!!! How is that even possible???? That their fans don’t get it is amazing. It is afr worse than expecting Duke or Vandy to win an ACC or SEC Football Championship.

Plus, Harry’s grandson may be one of the most egregious examples of nepotism in history.

By nolie

October 25, 2008 12:51 PM | Link to this

Plus, Harry’s grandson may be one of the most egregious examples of nepotism in historyHarry

not only that but he ain’t very good and probably only got his job cause he was related to Harry and Skip.

By David O'Brien

October 25, 2008 12:56 PM | Link to this

Well, my Jayhawks can’t stop Texas Tech, it’s pretty clear. Only chance is to keep scoring with them. It’s already 21-14 Tex. Tech early in second quarter.

Gotta get to the ballpark for BBWAA meeting. It’ll probably be 42-35 when I get out of there.

By Bill

October 25, 2008 1:00 PM | Link to this

DOB— Gosh, I didn’t know Flowers was that huge. No 3rd base for sure. He needs to be in NFL. I guess he might be one included in some trade.

By Tomahawkin

October 25, 2008 1:00 PM | Link to this

Nuff Respect on another great blog. I’m looking fowrard to spring training already. D.O.B. More than anything as a person that likes to travel, I love your opinions about each cites culture, experiences, etc…You outta start a sports traveling show on the travel channel, better yet ESPNY…

And also D.O.B. Hey do you ever talk to the Philly.com beat writer Todd Zolecki…?

FYI… I’ve been on a 70’s/80’s disco Binge lately…You dont listen to no old Roger and Zapp, P-Funk, Isley Bros, Gap Band, Bootsy Collins, Pendergrass, The System…?

By Lew

October 25, 2008 1:08 PM | Link to this

Archbishop-And exactly what do you expect us to do? Just because you’re all bent out of shape about the economy and obviously choose to see baseball and it’s excesses as some sort of poster child means what to us exactly? That we have to abandon the game and deprive ourselves because you say we should?

Yes, there is the potential for a lot fewer fans showing up at the ballpark-there has been for several years now (this whole flipping fiasco didn’t just start-it’s been in the works for almost a decade if you weren’t too blind to see). So far they keep putting up unreal attendance figures that escalate on an annual basis despite the p!$$ poor economy. Maybe it will rise again-maybe not. Considering MLB made $6.5 Billion last year, they can make it through, I’m certain of it.

Some of us DID see what was coming and solidified our posititions and made whatever modification to our plans to help us weather the storm. If you’re an accountant and as prescient as you claim to be, then why didn’t you see to your own house? Believe me-sitting here b!tch!ng about it and trying to get the rest of us to throw in the towel because things are tough seems to me to be a meaningless waste of your time.

I don’t know about you-or anyone else, for that matter-I’ll make it through and watch baseball while I’m at it. You probably won’t because instead of taking care of your self, you’re sitting here and browbearting us. Dude-we know things are rough out there. Go do something about it and leave us to our baseball. I pay enough taxes to allow myself the delusion of enjoying the game. If you can’t enjoy the game-then it’s your problem-not mine. I sense the economy has little to do with your attitude.

By Lew

October 25, 2008 1:13 PM | Link to this

Guy-Which Buffet did you mean-Warren or Jimmy?

By YunelFan

October 25, 2008 1:17 PM | Link to this

A question, DOB: If the Braves include Kelly Johnson in a trade for Jake or anyone else, what do you think the chances are of signing Edgar Renteria to play second? His range seems to have declined some at short and might he be willing to switch in order to come back to the Braves? That would give us a reliable right-handed bat also…

By Glynn

October 25, 2008 1:43 PM | Link to this

Im all for making some prospects untouchables. The Braves should not become a team that regularly unloads its farm system to land free agents to try and build a team of free agents who diddnt come up through the organization. If it means that the Braves are not godd for a few more years then so be it lets do this the right way, if we do then who knows, maybe we will have another 14 year run. but i think its safe to say that this team has a few needs, and while free agents like peavy could be a great fit here we shouldnt go throwing away our future to maybe have asemi shot at contention next year. giving up something for peavy is fine but lets not do another tex deal.

By mbatl

October 25, 2008 1:53 PM | Link to this

Lew, you’re right on target, regarding Archbishop. Reminds me of one of those guys on the street corner wearing a sandwich-board sign - “The End is Near” - and shouting passages from the Book of Revelations.

As to Flowers, I hope we’ll keep him at catcher as long as he can develop into an adequate defender. Come mid-season, or 2010, he could be a valuable possible backup to McCann, or replacement in the event of Mac getting hurt (now there’s a real disaster scenario!). Letting him learn a little 1B couldn’t hurt either, of course.

Not to say Flowers should be untouchable… but it’s always nice to have a good catching prospect or two in the higher minors.

By Guy

October 25, 2008 1:55 PM | Link to this

Lew, it wasn’t Jimmy. He’s into cheeseburgers and parrots, not chicken sammiches and chopping cows.

By Firetheoldfool

October 25, 2008 2:05 PM | Link to this

Jack G. You’re right. Won’t matter what players we get as long as BC is managing.

By Braveheart

October 25, 2008 2:12 PM | Link to this

Lou Vales, don’t bother changing your name if you ain’t gonna bother to change your game. Archbishop, Lou Vales, Wal-Mart Greeter, Clemson paws, whatever. It’s the same feeble minded blather with the same language, punctuation, grammar, capitalization pattern. Saying something under the name Lou Vales and then using another fake name like clemson paws in the same day’s blog to fake agree/disagree with what Lou Vales is saying is just as lame as saying something under the Archbishop name and using a name like WalMart Greeter to fake agree/disagree with what the Archbishop is saying. How much longer until you go on and on again about Bolles? Or does Lou Vales think that would be too much of a dead giveaway for the Archbishop to say?

By Paul

October 25, 2008 2:24 PM | Link to this

Hey DOB whatsup with Chuck James?

By Bobby's Cox

October 25, 2008 2:24 PM | Link to this

DOB

I’ve always said baseball was taking the wrath of all sports regarding roids.

There’s reports that says most football guys do roids in high school, where there’s no testing. When they’re already big, they can keep their size through workouts, calories, and supplements. I know for a fact most of the football players at my high school were on roids.

The sport most abundant in roids use? European football, or soccer from what few have told me. Lots of those guys use it to get faster and heal quick.

It’s a shame. Especially in baseball where we like to compare players of different eras.

By Paul

October 25, 2008 2:24 PM | Link to this

Hey DOB whatsup with Chuck James?

By mbatl

October 25, 2008 2:35 PM | Link to this

Good to see Schafer back in the lineup for Navojoa last night. Took an oh-fer, but the injury must not have been anything to worry about.

By YunelFan

October 25, 2008 2:42 PM | Link to this

Paul What happened to Chuck James??? Reality set in.

By cabravesfan

October 25, 2008 2:42 PM | Link to this

Paul

Chuck James is recovering from September shoulder surgery…will be out at least the first half of ‘09

By Bobby's Cox

October 25, 2008 2:47 PM | Link to this

yunel Fann

As per Bowman, if the Braves trade Johnson, it will be because of their comfort with Prado’s emergence last year.

Signing Furcal or Renteria won’t happen, unless Renteria decides to enter into the bench stage of his career. Renteria would be a great acquisition for the Braves to tame Yunel, Martin, and even Kelly, but it would be Renteria’s decision to accept a back up role.

I could see the dodgers signing Renteria. Berrora has been good, but if your the dodgers, you love Renteria’s veteran presence with all those kids, and his clutch bat. He’d come cheaper than Furcal as well.

By N Nine

October 25, 2008 2:47 PM | Link to this

Lets see who gives up more Kansas or Kasas st. Its a close one right now..

Paul, He could be a valued 6th starter down the line maybe.

By mbatl

October 25, 2008 2:48 PM | Link to this

Great blogging by Tommy Hanson, and also by Flowers. Don’t know if this has been posted yet… HERE

By McFann O –[brr!]

October 25, 2008 2:52 PM | Link to this

Hey, while we were out, we saw a bus the had Atlanta Braves on the front digital-thingy.

Steroids in football. Who’da thunk?

Bobby’s Cox I’ve always said baseball was taking the wrath of all sports regarding roids.

Yeah, you said it. I’ve heard people say that they don’t watch baseball because of the steroid thing. Those same people are HUGE football fans.

Later!

By Bobby's Cox

October 25, 2008 2:52 PM | Link to this

Braveheart,

Seems like we’ve been getting a lot of petty blog names this offseason huh? Maybe people feel embarrassed they’re still addicted to the blog in the offseason. Maybe the AJC could show IP addresses, city or state info, etc… to verify info, ha.

By YunelFan

October 25, 2008 2:54 PM | Link to this

cabravesfan May he be long in recovery lol.. The other day I thought I saw him pitching but it wasn’t him.. It was a softball tournament with unlimited home runs.

By Bobby's Cox

October 25, 2008 2:55 PM | Link to this

So much for 42-35 O’Brien.

Yikes.

By kdbanks

October 25, 2008 2:56 PM | Link to this

Successful Ella Guru trip today…

Really like the new The Hold Steady album and I’m listening to the new Jenny Lewis now. Good times.

Thanks Don!

By Vol

October 25, 2008 3:03 PM | Link to this

What would the score of the Oklahoma - Texas Tech game be if they played each other today?

By cabravesfan

October 25, 2008 3:05 PM | Link to this

Yunelfan

That was a little harsh…but it cracked me up:)

In Chuckie’s defense his shoulder has been bothering him for over 2 years- why he waited so long for surgery is beyond me…

By N Nine

October 25, 2008 3:05 PM | Link to this

Have not heard much about the Japanese players that we might take a look at. Any word? I know we won’t pay millions for just negotiations…..

By Rev Buddy Greene

October 25, 2008 3:16 PM | Link to this

also the Braves are dissapointed in Josh Anderson and Brent Lillibridge for refusing to play winterball

By YunelFan

October 25, 2008 3:18 PM | Link to this

Bobby’s Cox Well what would be the problem with putting Renteria at second full time? I like him better over there than Kelly any day..

By P-Town Brave

October 25, 2008 3:32 PM | Link to this

YunelFan

First off, love Yunel as well…I really hope we don’t trade him…

Second, the reason we wouldn’t put Renteria there w/o Kelly on the team is we have Prado…he has now (my opinion) proven that he can handle the 2nd job full-time and at this point in his career would be a better choice to have there as he is solid defensively and is certainly no slouch w/ the bat…

He’s a perfect candidate for the 2-hole.

By Doc Holliday

October 25, 2008 3:36 PM | Link to this

Im not a KJ fan, but I would have to say that I wouldnt take Renteria over KJ right now. KJ will the same or even better next year. Edgar 2 years older……..not sure i think he is around 35. Theres plenty of KJ left, not so the case of Renteria. Maybe I would take the “trade” for 2009, but, what about 2010? It would be a mistake.

By kirknga

October 25, 2008 3:39 PM | Link to this

What a lively blog. Who knew sports and economics could bring out such a wide range of responses, but still remain an entertaining?

So I wonder, is “prospect-hugger” now an official part of the Braves/MIB lexicon?

I wonder if anyone has given thought that Wren’s comments may just be posturing? Is he just blowing smoke at this point?

I still believe that until we get some idea of what other teams are offering, we don’t know who we’re going to have to give up or not.

By Lew

October 25, 2008 3:39 PM | Link to this

All Right!! Go Dawgs!!!!!!

By N Nine

October 25, 2008 3:45 PM | Link to this

Hey YunelFan, Can i be YunelFann too. I too love the guy’s fire when he’s going good. Looks like P-town’s got the idea. Yunel did plenty on his first full season. He will ONLY get better.

By N Nine

October 25, 2008 3:50 PM | Link to this

Hey Doc Holliday How come your not a KJ fann? I’m glad you understand KJ is better than aging Renteria. What would be better options if KJ is not here?

By TNScott

October 25, 2008 3:52 PM | Link to this

DOBI,too look forward to your reports from on Hansen at the AFL. I don’t know how much you can hang your hat on anything that comes out of it though. I remember last season how everyone was so impressed with Charlie Morton’s performance there and Richmond. It didn’t quite pan out the same way in the Bigs. It is a good barometer but just one. Oh, by the way, by the time you arrived at your meeting, I think the score was 42-14.

By cabravesfan

October 25, 2008 3:55 PM | Link to this

Doc Holliday

Agree regarding Renteria- except he is actually 7 years older then KJ (he is 33, KJ is only 26)- and as much as I liked Renteria when he was here- can he even play 2nd? If it comes down to trading KJ (which I have been against from the start) I would rather give Prado a shot then Renteria (and Prado- and KJ- are both MUCH cheaper)

By Deep Throat

October 25, 2008 3:59 PM | Link to this

Renteria over Kelly Johnson? Seriously?

Renteria wouldn’t hit as well, wouldn’t play defense as well at second, would cost more, is older….

It makes so little sense that it’s laughable. Look at Renteria’s 2008 hitting stats. That is NOT a “him being in the AL” thing.

By McFann O –[brr!]

October 25, 2008 4:04 PM | Link to this

kirknga we don’t know who we’re going to have to give up or not.

But we do know we’re not giving up McCann.

; )

By kirknga

October 25, 2008 4:04 PM | Link to this

I’d like to side with N Nine and YunelFan!

I think some people are trying to give him away in a trade even though he’s shown that he can play at a high level in the major leagues.

By Steve from OH

October 25, 2008 4:05 PM | Link to this

Renteria is also a Type A free agent, so we’d probably be giving up draft picks to get him (though not our first rounder; it is protected).

By N Nine

October 25, 2008 4:12 PM | Link to this

That is NOT a “him being in the AL” thing

True that..Boston&Detroit was way different experience than St. Louis&Atlanta for Renteria.

By David O'Brien

October 25, 2008 4:15 PM | Link to this

My Jayhawks got dismantled by Texas Tech. Glad I had to miss the second half of that rout to attend the BBWAA meeting. That offense is frightening. Texas Tech is a better team than I thought. They are probablyl a top-five team….

TNScott, very true. Fall League’s a bit like spring training in that respect — you can’t put too much stock in what guys do in completely pressure-free environments, against other prospects of varying skill, in front of 50 or so fans (more for some night games) in Fall League games.

That said, they are competing against plenty of very good prospects, and overwhelming performances in Arizona are not to be downplayed or dismissed. Just as overwhelming performances in the minors are often harbingers of major league success, so too are those performances in the Fall League.

But it’s just one more part of evaluating a player.

By N Nine

October 25, 2008 4:18 PM | Link to this

Thx Kirknga— we finally raised our future middle infielders and I’d be happy with both back in 09. Both i guess one might have to leave if Peavy IS here. We do have a nice backup in Prado. He is ready to be a fulltimer..he is…not saying he is better than KJ/Yunel

By Guy

October 25, 2008 4:19 PM | Link to this

UGA’s makin’ LSU look like LS, Uh…

By cabravesfan

October 25, 2008 4:22 PM | Link to this

Gotta love it…while most of hte country gets to watch #1 Texas and #6 OK State those of us out here on the west coast get…ucla at cal.

Thanks ABC!

By kirknga

October 25, 2008 4:24 PM | Link to this

But we do know we’re not giving up McCann.

I would most certainly hope not! Never. Ever.

I just don’t think McCann is the only one deserving of that protected status is all.

By McFann O –[brr!]

October 25, 2008 4:33 PM | Link to this

kirknga—

I know! I know! I was just bustin’ your chops a little.

By kirknga

October 25, 2008 4:34 PM | Link to this

N Nine, I don’t feel see KJ in the same fashion as Escobar. I see Escobar establishing himself as one of the best at his position over the next couple of seasons.

I don’t see the same capacity in KJ, though I know some here feel differently.I wouldn’t want them to just give him away though.

But I put Escobar in the same “untouchable” category as McCann, and JJ, and Gonzalez, and Francouer(for now).

By Efrim

October 25, 2008 4:37 PM | Link to this

If Johnson is traded, I think Prado will be our 2nd baseman. No need to spend money on a position that is covered with a backup. LF should really be the position that needs the attention.

By N Nine

October 25, 2008 4:43 PM | Link to this

Francouer untouchable for now? I guess if you feel his trade value is too low right now. KJ or Yunel? hard to compare since KJ has more power and they are different guys..i just can’t compare -I like both!!! KJ really excited me in September.

By David O'Brien

October 25, 2008 5:01 PM | Link to this

Paul, Chuck James is recovering from shoulder surgery, which is going to keep him out for most of the 2009 season…

Tomahawkin: Dude, how can you call Parliament, Isley Brothers and Zapp/Roger Troutman “disco?” That demeans some great music. Great funk.

I saw Zapp in concert in 1980 in Oklahoma, with Con Funk Shun and the Bar-Kays. I kid you not. Zapp had just released “More Bounce To The Ounce.” Cool show. Not many of us white folks in the crowd.

You know whose old stuff I loved? Rick James. Before his “Super Freak” popularity explosion.

His albums at the end of the ’70s. I’m talking about his first few albums, “You & I” (with Mary Jane), “Bustin’ Out of L Seven,” “Fire It Up” (I’ve still got the song Love Gun on my Ipod.)

I sold back too many of my old LPs, like an idiot. But I at least kept a bunch of those plus stuff like Funkadelic’s “One Nation Under a Groove” album, and Parliament’s “Motor Booty Affair.”

By kirknga

October 25, 2008 5:02 PM | Link to this

McFann… I know..it’s all good! :)

N Nine, no it’s not because I feel his trade value is too low.Matter of fact, I don’t believe that it is low at all. I believe there are plenty of teams that would pay handsomely if the Braves put him on the market.

I think baseball people see him differently than many fans of the here do.Many here only see last season. It’s very similar to Andrew, many only see the last two seasons. When I look at JF, I see the seasons before this one and think that this is still a guy that could be a top RF for many years to come. Same with Yunel, JJ, and McCann as far as being among the top at their positions.

By YunelFan

October 25, 2008 5:04 PM | Link to this

I agree that KJ can hit. I just get tired of his streakiness and his unreliable glove. I’m not crazy about trading him, either. Its just that in order to get someone like * Jake* we may have to give up someone like KJ. And I definitely agree with kirknga about Yunel’s future.

By Efrim

October 25, 2008 5:04 PM | Link to this

What I meant was that Prado was a solid backup capable of starting. Would I rather have Johnson? Absolutely. But if he is dealt for Peavy, or whoever, then I think Prado could at least provide us solid-average production.

By Steve from OH

October 25, 2008 5:05 PM | Link to this

Tyler Flowers 2-3 with a double and a HR today for Mesa. I’ll bet Keith Law is right…the Padres gotta be all over him.

By Steve from OH

October 25, 2008 5:12 PM | Link to this

Efrim, I agree w/ that 5:04. I’m not crazy about trading KJ (I really think he’s a good young player. Love his plate approach), but if he brings us back Peavy (w/o giving up Hanson or Schafer), then I think it’s a good deal. We need pitching more than we need KJ at 2B…Martin’s a fine option to replace him, provided we pick up a good stick for LF.

By McFann O –[brr!]

October 25, 2008 5:14 PM | Link to this

Key-doke, Kirknga. ‘Sall good here, too. : )

By bravesfan54

October 25, 2008 5:15 PM | Link to this

DOB: I do regret the tone (and tenor, vis a vis your comments) of my remarks in two separate posts last night - especially quoting you on the reasonablenes of someone’s possible contract. You are merely the messenger in reporting these things. I do believe that the basebally salary structure needs to adjust. There was a bubble in real estate - it burst. Baseball salaries are obscene and this bubble needs to burst, in my opinion. So I reacted to what I perceived as your support for this “inflated market”. Nothing personal.

I have not closely followed the blog since the waning days of season, and had nno idea of what you have expressed on the “public funding” of stadia. My reaction to your comment about “the elusive funding” was obviously off-base, and I deserve some bit of flogging for it. (For what it is worth, I want a clean envirnment, universal health care, a very green economy. In my world, the owners - who after all have no problem paying ridiculous salaries - can provide the venues for these games. Period.

So I will go more kindly into the night on my future comments, especially where they take shots at you that you don’t deserve.

By TommyP

October 25, 2008 5:26 PM | Link to this

Smoltz to do Clemens imitation?

By David O'Brien

October 25, 2008 5:46 PM | Link to this

Bravesfan54, I appreciate that. Thanks for reconsidering….

Still raining here, has been for hours, but I just heard an MLB official say it’s supposed to stop shortly after 8 p.m.

We might start a little late, but I think they’re going to play. It’s not pouring, never really has today. Just a steady light rain….

We need a rainout tomorrow, not tonight. Then I could see The Who across the street. Alas, it’s supposed to be clear tomorrow. Today’s only threat of rainout.

By David O'Brien

October 25, 2008 5:52 PM | Link to this

N Nine, I don’t think it’s a matter of Francoeur being “untouchable” from Braves’ perspective, but rather a matter of his trade value being pretty low right about now. Needs a bounce-back year to restore some luster, for sure.

Could you throw him in as part of a package in a trade? Yes, but I don’t know that the Braves want to do that. I mean, he’s still a guy who could potentially become a solid player reasonably close to what they thought he’d be, whether some believe that here or not.

But he’s got to produce this year, assuming he’s here (which I think he will be).

By brian

October 25, 2008 5:53 PM | Link to this

I assume if we have any thought of obtaining Verlander then Escobar would have to be included though I doubt the Tigers would be willing to trade Verlander.

By brian

October 25, 2008 5:53 PM | Link to this

I assume if we have any thought of obtaining Verlander then Escobar would have to be included though I doubt the Tigers would be willing to trade Verlander.

By mbatl

October 25, 2008 5:56 PM | Link to this

DOB, do you ever check out TalkingChop.com? That guy’s got it in for you. I’d love to see you go in and post a response to his latest on how you’re affecting the Braves’ negotiations with Smoltz. (probably not something you’d choose to do, but I think it would be great reading!).

By Joe M.

October 25, 2008 6:03 PM | Link to this

“I am generally opposed to selling low; however, there is such a thing as minimizing your losses. There are those who think that Jeff Francoeur is a talented player who had a bad year. I am not one of those people. I use statistics a lot, sometimes seemingly to a fault. You can’t possibly know enough from observation to make informed decisions about everything that goes on on a baseball field. But if you watch one player enough, you can tell when that player is done. Jeff Francoeur is done. He plays baseball like a 45-year-old man who maybe was pretty good in his early thirties. Even if he somehow, through an unprecedented educational program, figured out where the strike zone is and how to recognize the difference between fastballs and breaking balls, he lacks the ability now to take advantage.

All that Jeff Francoeur has going for him is his reputation as a talented athlete. That is it. Eventually, everyone will realize that his athleticism is shot, and there’s no call for a slow guy with a slow bat to play the outfield. To be perfectly honest, the only chance I see of Francoeur ever becoming a useful major leaguer again is if the Braves get rid of him, he signs on elsewhere as a minor leaguer, and he learns how to pitch.”

By mbatl

October 25, 2008 6:12 PM | Link to this

Trading Francoeur… hmm… unless we’re trading him for a better right fielder (and the other team wouldn’t be too smart to do that), that would leave us with no proven RF, no really proven CF, and no proven LF.

I think Jeff gets another shot at living up to potential. Hope he turns things around.

By David O'Brien

October 25, 2008 6:15 PM | Link to this

mbatl: I’ve found that it’s best to avoid getting in p$$ing matches with others in the media. I honestly don’t like ripping or criticizing other writers or others in the media trying to do a job or just doing things as they see fit to do them. No big deal. Long as its not personal attacks.

By David O'Brien

October 25, 2008 6:24 PM | Link to this

Joe M., but you can understand that there are others who disagree with you, who believe that Francoeur, at his age, can get back to being productive if he gets himself in good baseball shape and makes some real adjustments to his hitting approach.

Last winter, he added 20 pounds of muscle, and not the kind of muscle that helps in baseball, like the bigger forearms you see on some hitters who spend countless hours in the cage.

He didn’t hit much, if at all, until late in the winter, and he’s acknowledged that was a big mistake.

Hey, I really don’t have a gut feeling anymore regarding whether Francoeur’s gonna become a really good major league player. Let’s say I’m a lot less confident he will be than I was a year ago.

But he’s awful young to give up on after just one terrible season. He did some good things in 2006 and 2007. Last season, he was one of the very worst hitters in the majors.

But he’s not hurt and he’s not old. So again, it’s hard for the Braves just to give up on him completely after one awful season.

By Joe M.

October 25, 2008 6:26 PM | Link to this

mbatl: I’ve found that it’s best to avoid getting in p$$ing matches with others in the media.

Is the “gondee” guy at TalkingChop really even a media member? He seems like just some random fan with a blog.

The way he is shilling for NOT getting Peavy makes me not like him.

By kirknga

October 25, 2008 6:29 PM | Link to this

Joe M

Since you use statistics so well why weren’t you on here after last season telling us how Francoeur was done?

Didn’t read where you believed he was done after the 2006 either.Why?

Talentless players don’t drive in 100 rbi’s. They certainly don’t do so in successive seasons.

He is a flawed player, no doubt. But talentless? That’s a subjective opinion, not statistical analysis.

By McFann O –[brr!]

October 25, 2008 6:52 PM | Link to this

Joe M.—

Francoeur is done? I wouldn’t say that at all, dude. Where the heck are you getting that? Good lord, Lorn.

He needs to work real hard and figure out what a strike zone is, but you can’t really say he’s “done” at 24.

Also, why did you put your entire post in quotes?

By Doc Holliday

October 25, 2008 7:01 PM | Link to this

N Nine Prado is the obvious answer to 2B if Kj was not around, he has a good bat and good glove and knows the game, good al around young player.

cabravesfan you are right………. we dont need renteria, not for a second.

By David O'Brien

October 25, 2008 7:01 PM | Link to this

Regarding Francoeur, I was actually thinking about him yesterday when old Charlie Manuel was talking about hitting during the Phillies’ manager’s press conference, and I think this can apply to offseason as well as during the season:

Manuel said, “Baseball is repetition. There never has been a great hitter who didn’t hit a lot. And I’ve got in arguments with guys like, Kenny Lofton comes to mind, when he first started playing, and I’m using him as an example. I used to get mad at him because on Sundays sometimes, he’d go to the manager and he wouldn’t have to hit. And we came out and it seemed like Kenny was the guy getting all the hits. I told him one day, I said, Kenny, there will come a time when you’re going to have to hit a lot. You’ll see. And that was because it’s a repetition game….

“Ask Tiger Woods, or Singh. He said he loved to hit golf balls, that’s why he hit 2,000 balls a day or something. And the more repetition, the better.”

By NickC

October 25, 2008 7:04 PM | Link to this

I think we’re in for a rude awakening if we expect Prado to step up to be a full time 2nd baseman.

By cabravesfan

October 25, 2008 7:12 PM | Link to this

NickC

I agree- which is why I don’t think we should trade KJ…although if it comes down to trading him or Yunel as the key to getting Peavy I wouldn’t hesitate to trade him. I tink Yunel’s defense at SS is much more valuable then the marginal advantage KJ may have on offense (and who knows if there is one? Yunel was fighting a bad shoulder much of the year)

By David O'Brien

October 25, 2008 7:16 PM | Link to this

Forgot to mention, I talked to Willy Aybar for a while yesterday in the Rays clubhouse. Going to write something about him for the Monday paper.

Really am happy to see that dude land on his feet after last year’s troubles.

By David O'Brien

October 25, 2008 7:19 PM | Link to this

The rain and wind just intensified, and they’re having a bunch of people hold onto the edges of the covering over the ESPN remote setup in first-base foul territory. That whole setup was about to blow away….

By David O'Brien

October 25, 2008 7:24 PM | Link to this

I should’ve added in the post about Francoeur earlier, than he also needs to make some adjustments to his hitting approach, obviously, because every team in the league knows how to get him out now.

A couple years ago, not every team did, and he hit well against some of those teams that didn’t. Even this year, he had some big games, usually against lesser pitchers, sometimes younger pitchers or just pitchers who couldn’t consistently execute the pitches that he’s most susceptible to.

By David O'Brien

October 25, 2008 7:27 PM | Link to this

Gonna go downstairs now to see Pujols get the Hank Aaron award.

By keylargo

October 25, 2008 7:32 PM | Link to this

By Steve from OH

October 25, 2008 4:05 PM | Link to this

Renteria is also a Type A free agent, so we’d probably be giving up draft picks to get him (though not our first rounder; it is protected).

Steve

I was wondering how you found that Edgar Renteria would be a Type A free agent? I looked up the rule and that would mean he was among the top 30% at his position in the last two years. If he is that, he has not fallen that far.

While I was reading the free agent rules, I ran across something I had never heard - that if there are 14 or fewer type A’s, no team may sign more than one.

That could end our chances of signing any top pitcher free agents.

Copied from MSN

Free Agency and Compensation

A player that has accrued 6 complete years or more of service time at the end of a season and does not have a contract is eligible for filing for free agency, after which the player can sign with any team he wants.

To receive compensation for a player that signs with another team, the team must offer the player salary arbitration.

The team must offer salary arbitration to the player by December 7 or will not be allowed to negotiate with or sign the player until the following May 1. After arbitration is offered, the player has until December 19 to either accept or refuse salary arbitration. If it is refused, the player can only negotiate with the club until January 7th, after which no more negotiation can take place until May 1.

The compensation formula is based off a negotiated formula, heavy on triple crown stats, for the previous 2 seasons. Type A players are those that rank in the top 30% of his position. Type B players are those that rank below top 30% but still in the top 50%. Type C players are those that rank in the top 60% but not the top 50%.

A type players fetch the 1st-round draft pick of teams in the top half of W-L record or a 2nd-round draft pick of teams in the bottom half of W-L record and an additional pick between the 1st and 2nd rounds. B types don’t get the sandwich pick and C type players fetch a sandwich between the 2nd and 3rd rounds. The higher the player’s ranking in the compensation formula, the higher priority the old team gets in acquiring draft picks.

Something that’s never mentioned is that there are still limits to the type of free agents that teams may sign.

If there are 14 or less type A and B players available, no team may sign more than 1 type A or B player. If there are 15-38 available A and B players, no team may sign more than 2. From 39-62 this becomes 3. The club quota increases accordingly for higher totals of available free agents. There is no maximum allowed for type C free agents. Lastly, a team can sign up to as many type A and B free agents as they’ve lost, regardless of the above quota.

Major League free agents come with an automatic no-trade clause until after the next June 15.

By David O'Brien

October 25, 2008 7:47 PM | Link to this

Just talked to Frank Wren, and nothing has changed with Braves and Smoltz. Frank hadn’t seen the story in NY paper, but didn’t seem at all concerned or stressed about it.

Said last time he talked to Smoltz, they agreed that they’d talk again later in the winter after Smoltz had a better idea of whether he’d make it back. If he can pitch, and he wants to pitch, Wren said the Braves want him back.

That’s what he said the day after the season, and when I asked him just now if that’s still the case, he said absolutely. Nothing’s changed….

By the way, it was the Clemente award, not the Aaron award, that Pujols was getting while ago.

By mbatl

October 25, 2008 7:57 PM | Link to this

DOB, thank for the update. I didn’t mean to stir anything up with my reference to that other site (well, maybe I did, but really didn’t expect you to bite).

By P-Town Brave

October 25, 2008 7:58 PM | Link to this

Deep Throat

Jeff Kent, Ian Kinsler, and Rickie Weeks think you calling Kelly Johnson a good defensive player is ridiculous!

By David O'Brien

October 25, 2008 8:02 PM | Link to this

Wren on Smoltz and the Daily News story: “I’ve heard about the story. I haven’t seen it yet.

“Nothing has changed. We’re still operating under the same [circumstances] we were before. We want to see how John’s rehab progresses. Our hope is that he’s able to rejoin us next spring. But we need to wait deeper into John’s rehab program to see when he can return, and if he can return. Nothing has changed.”

By Deep Throat

October 25, 2008 8:14 PM | Link to this

Jeff Kent, Ian Kinsler, and Rickie Weeks think you calling Kelly Johnson a good defensive player is ridiculous!

For the 10,000th time now: Kelly Johnson was +3 at second base in 2008. That means Johnson saved three runs more with his glove at second base than an exactly league average defender wouild have. So Johnson was, by definition, a (slightly) above average defensive second baseman this past season.

And Kelly Johnson certainly would be better than, both with the bat and the glove, the sloth Edgar Renteria (who I like as a player) in 2009.

By mbatl

October 25, 2008 8:24 PM | Link to this

Pretty hard to judge Edgar Renteria as a second baseman, since he’s never played the position.

Not in the majors. Not in the minors.

He’ll get a nice 3-year, $15 mil contract (or something like that) to play shortstop for a team who needs one.

By David O'Brien

October 25, 2008 8:49 PM | Link to this

Doesn’t look very promising here, weather wise. Still steady rain and windy. Wouldn’t be surprised if this gets banged.

By dgd

October 25, 2008 8:55 PM | Link to this

“The sloth Edgar Renteria”—the very same Edgar Renteria who plays the game with class and was arguably the Braves’ best all-around hitter in 2007? Why wouldn’t we welcome him back with open arms if we lose KJ? Prado is a nice backup, and Renteria is a professional hitter who has lost range at shortstop, but would likely be very good at second base. Not advocating that the Braves move Johnson, but comments about Prado being a good #2 hitter are just wishful thinking. It might be true, but we KNOW Renteria is a good #2 hitter…….

By THB

October 25, 2008 9:07 PM | Link to this

dgd-Correction, we know Renteria was a good 2 hitter. He had very poor statistics this year. He had a sub-700 OPS this year while hitting .270, with a .317 OBP and a .382 SLG. He’s just getting old, he used to be great though.

By cabravesfan

October 25, 2008 9:08 PM | Link to this

dgd

Nobody is questioning Renteria’s class or grace or his hitting, which is not what it was in ‘07- what I, and others, are questioning is his ability to play a position that he has never played- anfd please don’t say 2nd base is the same as SS, it’s not, any more then 3rd and 1st are interchangable…not to mention that Renteria would cost significantly more then KJ and Prado do combined - I am certainly NOT advocating Prado as our everyday 2nd baseman but of the 2 I would take him over Renteria without much thought

By Steve from OH

October 25, 2008 9:10 PM | Link to this

Keylargo:

Eddie Bajek (sp?) over at Detroit Tigers Thoughts has reverse-engineered the Elias Formula, and by his calculation Edgar is Type A.

That’s good info on the club quota stuff; I wasn’t aware of all that. I’m sure that won’t be any worry to the Braves. Now the Yankees, on the other hand….

By dgd

October 25, 2008 9:18 PM | Link to this

Sorry, but I disagree. Renteria’s only 33 and that’s WAY too young to be considered old. Yes, he had an off year in 2008, and because of that can probably be had relatively cheaply. Since we’re going with youth at so many positions, especially if Schafer doesn’t get traded and we have CK at first base for the whole year, having a proven vet in the #2 hole and at second would be huge. And no, it’s not a given that someone who can play short is going to be a good second baseman, but it’s a pretty good bet. The athleticism that you need to play short usually translates pretty well to second. Ask Kelly Johnson….

By David O'Brien

October 25, 2008 9:21 PM | Link to this

Scratch that. The rain is slowing and they’re actually taking the tarp off the field. Looks like we might have a game.

How do you think those Fox ratings will be for this baby at about 12:30 a.m. on a Saturday night, or rather Sunday morning?

By David O'Brien

October 25, 2008 9:38 PM | Link to this

Some Phillies players just ran on the field to run and stretch. Got a big ovation from a lot of fans, many of whom, as you might imagine, seem quite intoxicated at this point.

They’ve been a captive audience for the past couple hours, consuming food, beverages, souvenir shirts and hats, etc. Rain delays in a World Series game have got to be good for a home team’s coffers.

And imagine if it got rained out right now. That’d be an extra night of stuff sold and no gate lost. Not like a regular season game, where they’d either have to play it as part of either a split doubleheader or offer rainchecks or whatever. They would’ve just moved the schedule back a day and eliminated the off (travel) day on Tuesday.

Anyway, doesn’t matter now, since we’re about to start. Just me wondering aloud and typing about the ramifications of a World Series rain delay, while you watch Ohio State-Penn State or do something else entertaining or productive.

By David O'Brien

October 25, 2008 9:47 PM | Link to this

And since it’s the first game of the Series in Philly, they also have to do all this pregame special stuff, the intros and the huge flag unfurling by military folks and all that.

We’re not going to start until after 10 p.m. This thing might not end until 1:30 a.m. or so. Oy.

By McFann O –[brr!]

October 25, 2008 9:53 PM | Link to this

Oh my gosh…the Braves have got to get to the World Series!

By knowitall73

October 25, 2008 9:54 PM | Link to this

DOB, don’t worry. This Ohio State-Penn State game has been about as exciting as a rain delay so far. Tied 3-3 in the third quarter.

By kdbanks

October 25, 2008 10:00 PM | Link to this

Just listened to Johnny Cash at Folsom Prison all the way through while playing video game baseball…now that’s productive. Oddly enough, when I brought in my lefty reliever in the 7th, Johnny introduced June to the crowd for the first time…eerie.

By David O'Brien

October 25, 2008 10:05 PM | Link to this

You’d never know it was 10 p.m. here. Place is packed, noisy, and there’s a whole lot of energy and white towels. Great atmosphere despite the long delay.

By David O'Brien

October 25, 2008 10:10 PM | Link to this

First pitch, 10:06 p.m., after 1:31 rain delay. About 50 degrees, but sure feels colder with the wind and damp conditions.

By Robert

October 25, 2008 10:10 PM | Link to this

DOB

any talk of making Tyler Flowers a 1b or LF. Kip has a great bat

By David O'Brien

October 25, 2008 10:18 PM | Link to this

kdbanks, that’s pretty cool when June comes out talking with that twang, isn’t it? Wonder what some of those prisoners were thinking …

Well now, we got married in a fever, hotter than a pepper sprout,

We’ve been talkin’ ‘bout Jackson, ever since the fire went out

I’m goin’ to Jackson, and that’s a fact.

Yeah, we’re goin’ to Jackson, ain’t never comin’ back.

By David O'Brien

October 25, 2008 10:21 PM | Link to this

A hit for Jimmy Rollins … now that’s something new and welcome for the Phillies.

By kdbanks

October 25, 2008 10:23 PM | Link to this

Best compliment ever - “I like to watch you talk.”

By knowitall73

October 25, 2008 10:27 PM | Link to this

DOB, they pointed out on TV that Garza has cotton in his ears to help block some of the crowd noise. Do you know of anyone doing that in the past? Seems like an admission that you can be rattled. And he certainly seems a little rattled right now.

By kdbanks

October 25, 2008 10:29 PM | Link to this

Ryan Howard is quickly becoming a left-handed Andruw Jones.

By David O'Brien

October 25, 2008 10:29 PM | Link to this

Robert, the Braves have slugging 1B Freddie Freeman, who’s closer to the majors than Flowers. Besides, they already know Flowers can play 1B, since he played it for most of a season in 2007 when he was coming off knee surgery.

As for playing him in LF, I think it’s probably like the situation with Saltalamacchia, who was kept at catcher even though Braves had McCann already becoming a standout in the majors. Salty had a lot more value as a catcher than 1B at the time, and Braves wanted him to continue developing, improving as a catcher and hitter rather than trying to learn a new position.

You gotta remember, Flowers was only in A-ball this season. It’s not like he’s going to move to left field over the winter and win a starting job with the major league team in spring training as an outfielder.

Whether they’ve discussed trying him in LF next year, I don’t know. Issue hasn’t come up in any conversations I’ve had with higher-ups. But I’ll try to remember to ask. I’ve got a feeling they’re going to say he’s got more value as a catcher and they’ll leave him there to keep developing for the time being, as they did Salty.

By keylargo

October 25, 2008 10:40 PM | Link to this

Steve from OH

All that information I got from MSN.com is dated. I looked for a date on the site but there was none. The type C free agent gave it away as that is no longer used.

Do you have a site that would have the current rules for free agents, waivers, etc.?

By Efrim

October 25, 2008 10:43 PM | Link to this

It would sure be nice if Flowers could stick at Catcher. He could be a great trade chip.

By kdbanks

October 25, 2008 10:52 PM | Link to this

Hey DOB,

Is the press box open air in Philly, and if so how many of you blokes are smoking cigars? Or is that not allowed anymore.

By David O'Brien

October 25, 2008 10:56 PM | Link to this

By the way, speaking of Tyler Flowers … I don’t know if it was mentioned, but he’s leading the AFL with five homers and a 1.100 slugging percentage in 30 at-bats.

He was 14-for-30 (.467) with eight strikeouts, five walks, eight RBI in nine games. Also had two doubles and a triple…..

Oh, and Robert: I already got the answer for you regarding Flowers. My assumption was correct: They’re leaving him at catcher while he continues his development in the field and at the plate. That came in a quick e-mail response just now from a Braves official who would know. He happened to be online when I e-mailed him the question about Flowers.

By Steve from OH

October 25, 2008 10:57 PM | Link to this

Keylargo:

Here ya go. That’s the free agent comp. rules.

And here’s some waiver rules and other stuff.

By keylargo

October 25, 2008 11:04 PM | Link to this

11 pm and the bottom of the 3rd. This one will be over just about 2 am.

I like the Phillies RFer Jason Werth. Francoeur could learn some things about hitting from him (they are both about 6’5” and 220 lbs.)

By David O'Brien

October 25, 2008 11:05 PM | Link to this

Upton just glides, man. Sort of like a younger Andruw going back to balls and catching them effortlessly.

Andruw was able to do it on remarkable instincts and good-not-great speed. Took a step toward where the ball was hit seemingly before it left the bat.

By David O'Brien

October 25, 2008 11:31 PM | Link to this

kdbanks, the garage-door-style windows are up and it’s wide open in the pressbox here. Alas, smoking isn’t allowed anymore at any stadiums we go to, at least not in the pressbox or stands. Hasn’t been for quite some time in the pressbox, though i do remember a few old-timers smoking cigs in my first years on the beat at a couple of places, like Pittsburgh. And of course it was OK to smoke in the pressbox at Montreal until the end.

Believe me, if it were OK to do so here, I’d have a stogie going. It’d be nice on a cool night like this.

By keylargo

October 25, 2008 11:34 PM | Link to this

DOB

I thought about AJ when Upton glided back and made that catch look routine, just like AJ used to.

I saw Upton is listed at 6’3” and 185 and went back and checked the Braves roster for 1996 and Andruw was listed at 6’1” and 170.

That alone tells you all you need to know about his downfall. Going from 170 to 240/250 will end almost everyone’s career.

By Tomahawkin

October 25, 2008 11:42 PM | Link to this

D.O.B. Your 5:01 post was spot on…and your next quote

“I sold back too many of my old LPs, like an idiot. But I at least kept a bunch of those, and stuff like Funkadelic’s “One Nation Under a Groove” album, and Parliament’s “Motor Booty Affair.”

Don’t feel bad dude, My dad did the same thing (Selling the LP’s)…For right Now I’ve been on a binge of some old House of pain (Shamrocks and Shenanigans [butch vig rock remix]), Some Old Ice Cube (Wicked), Herb Albert, and some old R. Kelly (His first CD 12 Play) for the last 5 days…

And on the Fancoeur thing, Since Raul Ibanez is on the Market, does anyone remember that he was Demoted to AAA in 2002 and it rejuvenated his career…So in other words I’m not giving up on Francoeur by any means…

It’s Costume Party Time 4 Tomahawkin, gotta get Tuned up…

By Couch Tater

October 25, 2008 11:51 PM | Link to this

Braveheart Got your stogie lit? RTR!

By David O'Brien

October 26, 2008 12:02 AM | Link to this

Can’t believe that ball stayed in. Longoria CRUSHED it. Wind’s going left to right, pretty stiff breeze, kept it in because it was up there so high.

By David O'Brien

October 26, 2008 12:07 AM | Link to this

Oh, my. Utley crushed that, too, and this time the wind was with it (not that it needed any assistance).

Who was telling me my Series pick looked to be in peril after the Rays won Game 2?

By David O'Brien

October 26, 2008 12:10 AM | Link to this

Utley, then Howard. Ding-dong, Garza’s just about dead for tonight. 4-1 Phillies lead.

By Couch Tater

October 26, 2008 12:21 AM | Link to this

Heluva play by 46-year old Moyer. You’ve got to feel good for him. All these years and finally a good showing in his first World Series.

By Latenight bailbond guy

October 26, 2008 12:36 AM | Link to this

This is prime time for us overnight workers. Used to love all those west coast games when the Braves were on TBS and in the western division. By the way DOB have you heard any of the new Waylon cd?

By David O'Brien

October 26, 2008 12:57 AM | Link to this

Latenight, no I haven’t. Almost bought it couple days ago, but couldn’t find it for less than full retail. I’ve since I found out it’s actually a thing Shooter Jennings put together, reworking eight songs he did with Waylon about a decade ago that had been on the shelf since, a bunch of old Waylon gems like “Lonesome On’ry and Mean” and “Waymore’s Blues” and covers including Cream’s “White Room.” Have you heard it? I’m intrigued, sounds like it might be real good….

As I type that, Upton steals a base, after beating out that hit. Dude can flat-out fly.

By Tomas

October 26, 2008 1:02 AM | Link to this

I can’t believe Moyer outpitched Garza. How can Moyer pitch in this time(where the strike zone is a lot tighter) with a 82mph fastball, and 78mph changeup. I don’t get it. The same goes for Glavine, but he isn’t effective anymore, because umps don’t give him that outside corner a foot from the plate.

On another subject, I think Pujols will be the mvp. The guy put up very good numbers in AVG, HR, and RBI’s, while playing gold glove defense, and keeping his team in the fight until september. Plus he did all this with a bad ligament in his arm. He won the Clemente award, and was named The Sporting News’ 2008 Major League Player of the Year, as selected by a panel of 314 players. The honor follows his selection Tuesday as the Players’ Choice National League Outstanding Player. Also players picked Pujols as NL’s best Slugger beats out Chipper, Howard as Outstanding Player. Not to mention he had been stolen of a lot of mvp award by mr. steroid. He deserves to be mvp.

By David O'Brien

October 26, 2008 1:02 AM | Link to this

Wow. Talk about speed killing. Upton just made that run on his own — beats out infield hit, then steals second, then steals third and scores on the play on the catcher’s throwing error. Single-handedly manufactured that tying run.

Now it’s 4-4, and if the Rays can pull out a win tonight, well, then I’d have to scrap my Phillies-in-seven pick and say the Rays will take it.

Rays have four steals tonight and 22 this postseason, breaking previous record of 20 by 1975 Reds and 1992 Braves. Yes, the Bravos once ran quite well.

By Tomas

October 26, 2008 1:05 AM | Link to this

Upton steals two bases, and forces the catcher to make an error. It’s a similar feeling for us braves fans, when the same thing happen when corky was catching and PUJOLS stole third.

By Latenight bailbond guy

October 26, 2008 1:09 AM | Link to this

I just ordered it from amazon. Its supposed to rock, as shooters band the 357’s laid down the music tracks with waymores remixed older vocals. Upton flat out stole that run. Maybe this game will go 12 or 13 innings, I don’t get off till 6 am.

By Tomas

October 26, 2008 1:13 AM | Link to this

I can already imagine Chip Caray’s comments during broadcasts next season. “I think baseball has changed to the years were small ball is being used more and more, because lets face it, you’re not going to have a lot a guys hitting 40 homers much less 73. We’re going back to the pre-steroid era.” And yes he will say it in every broadcast, putting the Rays as an example.

By Ricky

October 26, 2008 1:17 AM | Link to this

David, Any idea if the Braves will make deals with Smoltz or/and Glavine?

By David O'Brien

October 26, 2008 1:18 AM | Link to this

Just in case his glasses and hair weren’t enough to convince you that Joe Maddon is a bit different than most major league managers, consider this quote from the Tampa Bay skipper before tonight’s game, when it was apparent there would be a rain delay:

“If you’re in Fenway, in that clubhouse, it gets kind of annoying,” he said. “The clubhouse is, what, maybe half this size. And when you have all the amenities and you get yourself a nice cheesesteak while you’re waiting or watch a game on the tube — J.P. Howell is up there watching Texas versus Oklahoma State right now — this kind of facility ameliorates that situation a bit and permits you to get through the moment.”

Did he really say “ameliorates?” Yes, he did.

By the way, there are those who’ve sampled all of the top-rated cheesesteaks in Philly who’ll swear to you that the cheesesteaks they make in the kitchen of the the visitors clubhouse at Citizens Bank Park are as good or better than any. I’m not kidding.

Some locals who work in the clubhouse say it’s true. I haven’t had one, so I don’t know. But several Braves players said as much when the team was here this season.

By Ricky

October 26, 2008 1:18 AM | Link to this

David, Any idea if the Braves will make deals with Smoltz or/and Glavine?

By David O'Brien

October 26, 2008 1:20 AM | Link to this

Man, how HUGE was that pickoff at second base? Only one out and Howard up, and Howell picks off Werth getting too big a lead at 2B. In a tie game in the eighth inning. What a mistake by Werth.

By Tomas

October 26, 2008 1:23 AM | Link to this

talk about switching momentum on a hurry. What the hell is wrong with Werth. It has happen to him twice already in the most important series of a baseball season. That is just inacceptable.

By David O'Brien

October 26, 2008 1:23 AM | Link to this

Upton has tied a World Series record with three steals tonight, fourth player to do it and first since Lou Brock in 1968. First AL player to do it in a Series game.

By mbatl

October 26, 2008 1:25 AM | Link to this

Maddon is pretty cool. No doubt. Obviously a real smart guy. Kinda’ looks like Hank Hill, though (the gf pointed that out back when it was awake, and I went, “Yeah!”)

By David O'Brien

October 26, 2008 1:31 AM | Link to this

Ricky, I spoke with Wren and texted with Smoltz late tonight after seeing that NY Daily News story, and both of them seemed equally surprised by it. Honestly, Smoltz said he knew nothing about that agent’s quotes (it’s a new guy in the agency that represents Smoltz, apparently). Nothing’s changed between Smoltz and Braves, both parties said. He wants to stay with Braves, and Wren said they want him back if he can pitch.

But it’s still too early for Braves to know whether either Smoltz or Glavine will be able to pitch again. Probably going to be a while before Wren meets with either, since there’s no sense making an offer or offers for either until the Braves even know if they can pitch and want to pitch.

By Saltywoody

October 26, 2008 1:34 AM | Link to this

I’ve been thinking all along that this game was the key to the series. These late innings are huge, especially considering the start the Phils got from Moyer.

By David O'Brien

October 26, 2008 1:44 AM | Link to this

Upton steals three bases and the Rays steal four, but the game is about to be won after a stolen base by who? Eric Bruntlett. First to third on a steal and error. Now we’ve got an intentional walk, puts runners on the corners with none out and Greg Dobbs coming to bat against Balfour.

This can’t possibly end well for the Rays, can it? They’re going with an extra infielder and only two outfielders. Maddon is an unconventional cat, no doubt. Let’s see what happens….

By Brian

October 26, 2008 1:45 AM | Link to this

DOB- Your 1:31 post- COME ON!! I love Smoltz but who else thinks Smoltz hints around to things to get a little attention? I do! I don’t expect you to agree but it sounds a little fishy to me. He ain’t going anywhere.

By the way I think Jenkins is the Phils form of your buddy in the other dugout. Can’t stand either one! Non playin b*******!

By David O'Brien

October 26, 2008 1:45 AM | Link to this

And another intentional walk (not unexpected) loads bases for Carlos Ruiz. None out….

By David O'Brien

October 26, 2008 1:48 AM | Link to this

They’re giving him four-fifths of the field, with only two outfielders, both playing shallow in gaps, and five infielders on the grass, and he’s still swinging for the fences…. Swings and misses twice, now takes a ball for 2-2 count….

By David O'Brien

October 26, 2008 1:50 AM | Link to this

He swings and tops a little dribbler halfway up the third-base line, Longorian can only lunge and throw under-handed wildly toward the plate … PHILLIES WIN.

By mbatl

October 26, 2008 1:51 AM | Link to this

Ryan Howard on the 5-man infield: “It looked they were about to blitz.”

Pretty funny line from the big man.

By David O'Brien

October 26, 2008 2:05 AM | Link to this

Brian, just telling you what the man said in a series of text messages late tonight. I don’t disagree with you — I believe, like you do, that Smoltz is not going anywhere, that if he can pitch and does pitch, it’ll be with the Braves.

But it is certainly possible that if there’s a new agent in the agency, the group that represents Smoltz, well, that guy might have said some things to a NY reporter — frankly, the whole thing seemed odd to me — agreeing with the reporter that, hey, yeah, that might work, Smoltz pitching for a team at midseason if he’s not back with the Braves and blah blah blah.

I really don’t know. But you can bet that if the guy did say some things and Smoltz knew nothing about it, well, let’s just say you probably won’t be seeing any quotes from that guy again in regards to Smoltz.

By N Nine

October 26, 2008 2:26 AM | Link to this

Tie game. Bottom ninth. Hit By Pitch. Wild Pitch. Throwing error. Two intentional walks. A weak dribbler. Game Over. Wild World series game at 2 in the morning!

Dob thx for explanation on Frenchy. Yes his future potential outweighs the low current trade value and not worth simply as a “throw in” on possible deal.

Frenchy showed he has baseball skills his first year and half. All his skills couldn’t just vanished. He needs to clear his head and counter adjust to the pitchers.

Moyer 46 and 1st game ever in WS? wow and Longoria got there in few months!

No worries on Smoltz ever..It’s in everyone’s intrest for him to finish in ATL. no need to worry about him just booking for New York!

By jed

October 26, 2008 2:42 AM | Link to this

i’m not criticizing longoria, as he had to make a split-second decision, but it looked to me like that ball would’ve gone foul if he’d have let it roll. he obviously had no real play on the ball. again, not criticizing, just wondering what yall think…

By Jeff R

October 26, 2008 8:36 AM | Link to this

Haven’t scrolled through the whole blog… DOB, no mention of Escobar in your interview with Wren. Is he off the table, you think?

By David O'Brien

October 26, 2008 9:33 AM | Link to this

Jeff R, I don’t know. We didn’t talk about Escobar. Frank will not talk about specific players and whether they might be traded. He spoke only in general terms about not trading top prospects.

He isn’t going to get into an on-the-record, player-by-player rating of trade potential for players on the roster. “There’s a remote chance we could trade him,” or “We don’t want to trade him but might have to,” etc. That’s a no-win situation for them, as the Braves see it.

By TommyP

October 26, 2008 9:42 AM | Link to this

Talk of the Marlins Trading

Hermida very popular with GMs.

Jacobs and Gregg appear to be the definites to be dealt.

By Robert

October 26, 2008 9:52 AM | Link to this

The reason I asked about moving Flowers to LF, was because all our prospects hit Left handed. If everything works out then our lineup will have McCann, Heyward, Freeman, Schafer, K. Johnson. Who knows about Francoeur. It would be nice to have Flowers’s power from the right side. Gorkys Hernandez has no power so he doesn’t count as a RH hitter.

By Lew

October 26, 2008 10:26 AM | Link to this

Robert-I believe that Wren has said that a RH Power hitting outfielder is one of the pieces he intends to acquire in the off season. That being said, some RH hitters to counteract the practice of throwing every possible LHP at the Braves, as has happened the past two years, would be a good thing. I also think Frenchy will show significant improvement over last year as well. That should help considerably.

By JC from UT

October 26, 2008 11:27 AM | Link to this

DOB: Has there been any news about Rodrigo Lopez? perhaps he could be a dark horse in the competition for the rotation. Also, it seems the Brewers may be looking to shake things up a bit, that being said would you trade Francouer striaght up for Corey Hart? Would Milwaukee?

By Jeff R

October 26, 2008 11:32 AM | Link to this

DOB, thanks for the update…

By McFann O –[brr!]

October 26, 2008 11:41 AM | Link to this

Holy chopping cow, Rays! Who do you think you are—the Braves? Obviously I didn’t see the game, but I heard about your “play”.

Boy oh boy…The Fillies are just two wins away. Heck, as soon as the ESPN people (or whoever it was) said the Rays were favored, I thought, “Uh-oh…”

I’m sure the Fillies will win. Oh yes. They’ll pull it off if for no reason other than this: I’m pulling for the Rays…

By Steve from OH

October 26, 2008 11:41 AM | Link to this

JC:

I don’t think Milwaukee would. Would I? Tough question. I’ve still [braces self]got a lot of faith in Frenchy to come to ST in better (baseball) shape and I know he’s working hard this offseason on that and his plate approach in general. That said, his productiveness in ‘09 is such a big question mark that I would consider the deal. I mean, he could have a breakout season or he could stink up the joint again. Such a wide margin of error. Still a big fan of Frenchy’s, though, but I sure as heck don’t know what to expect next season. Hart also kinda seems to be Jeff Francoeur Lite in the majors with a few low OBP seasons (though he was good in the minors).

Lots to consider, but I don’t think either side would do it, to tell ya the truth.

By Andy

October 26, 2008 11:41 AM | Link to this

JC: No way in hell the brewers would do that. Makes no sense…Hart is worlds above francoeur at the moment, anyway.

By McFann O –[brr!]

October 26, 2008 11:44 AM | Link to this

The Rays’ B.J. Upton stole second base in the sixth inning and second and third in the eighth, tying the record for steals in a World Series game.

Sure you weren’t playing the Braves…?

Sorry, that’s in bad taste…

By THE BEAR

October 26, 2008 11:44 AM | Link to this

Anyone think sending KJ back to LF and playing Prado at 2B makes any sense? KJ would give the Braves a LF with a good bat and Prado hit well over .300 this year and can handle either 2B with little difficulty. Also KJ is no stranger to the outfield.

By Lew

October 26, 2008 11:51 AM | Link to this

JC-I honestly had not realized that the Braves had even signed Rodrigo Lopez. Now that I’ve checked, I really wonder why they did. The only thing I can think of is that they imported him for the same reason they brought in some of those dead arms like Dessens at the end of 08-cannon fodder when all else fails.

The guy has a terrible career ERA, WHIP, HBP, WP, etc. The only thing in his favor that I could see was a 2-1 K to BB ratio. I would be willing to bet he’s flying way below the radar-if he’s even flying at all.

By McFann O –[brr!]

October 26, 2008 11:51 AM | Link to this

Oh! Hart! My new-found buddy. Thanks—in part—to him, the Fillies don’t have home-field advantage! (Course, that might not matter at this point.)

Uh…But I don’t think I’d want Hart, just sayin’…

By JC from UT

October 26, 2008 12:14 PM | Link to this

LEW: I believe Lopez was signed after he had TJ surgery with the hope that he could possibly make a bid at the rotation. I wouldn’t say he is as bad as Dessens. I think he was/is one of those guys you sign in the hopes that you find a diamond in the rough so to speak. kind of like Chris Hammond was a fwe years back

By Moby Grape

October 26, 2008 12:15 PM | Link to this

Your 1:31 post- COME ON!! I love Smoltz but who else thinks Smoltz hints around to things to get a little attention? I do! I don’t expect you to agree but it sounds a little fishy to me. He ain’t going anywhere.Brian

I do too.Just about every time he has come up for another contract there have been strange comments from him and his “camp”. Truthfully I like him as a pitcher, but I think he’s a passive-aggressive bully who runs his mouth too much, and if I were Chipper I’d have punched him out

By David O'Brien

October 26, 2008 12:26 PM | Link to this

Lew, here’s what I wrote when the Braves signed Rodrigo Lopez in August, which still applies today:

St. Louis _ The Braves signed a former 15-game winner Friday. He’s also a former 18-game loser who’s coming back from “Tommy John” elbow surgery.

Right-hander Rodrigo Lopez, 32, signed a minor-league contract that includes a a 2009 option with major-league terms, if the Braves decide to keep him.

He’s a close friend of Mexican countryman Jorge Campillo, and the Braves pitcher asked the team to take a look at Lopez and see if they might be interested.

Lopez threw for Braves manager Bobby Cox and pitching coach Roger McDowell two weeks ago when the team was in Arizona. General manager Frank Wren said the Braves monitored his progress since then before offering him a contract.

The Braves will send Lopez to Florida to pitch for their Gulf Coast League team for the rest of the season and probably bring him to spring training before deciding whether to pick up the option.

Lopez has a 65-65 career record that included a 15-12 season with a 4.90 ERA in 2005 with Baltimore, when he pitched a career-high 209-1/3 innings. He was 9-18 with a 5.90 ERA for the Orioles in 2006, when he led the majors in losses.

Lopez missed much of the 2007 season with Colorado for elbow problems including a torn flexor tendon. He had ligament-transplant (“Tommy John”) surgery 12 months ago.

By Wayne

October 26, 2008 1:08 PM | Link to this

Dave: Did you take a whiz in the mess kit of that dude over at “Talking Chop?”

Sounds like an extremely jealous individual to me.

Keep up the fine work!

Go Rays!

By David O'Brien

October 26, 2008 1:17 PM | Link to this

Wayne, you gotta think Longoria and/or Pena is going to start hitting soon, right? I mean, those were the guys who carried them for most of the ALCS vs. Boston, but they’ve done nothing in the last five games, including the last two in the ALCS and three in the World Series.

That ball Longoria hit last night was tattooed, but the wind held it up. A moon shot that everyone thought was out as it climbed higher and higher … then stalled.

By Steve from OH

October 26, 2008 1:32 PM | Link to this

Here’s a blurb from Tom Krasovic’s most recent article in the San Diego Union-Tribune:

Before Braves General Manager Frank Wren told the Associated Press on Thursday that he will not be trading his top prospects, the Braves, as part of trade talks involving Padres ace Jake Peavy, had told the Padres they will not deal their top pitching prospect, Tommy Hanson. The Padres haven’t stopped scouting Hanson in the Arizona Fall League; Friday, for the second time in seven days, they had three scouts there to watch and once again Hanson performed well.

Hmm…wonder what Frank’s got up his sleeve?

By Braveheart

October 26, 2008 1:41 PM | Link to this

I do too.Just about every time he has come up for another contract there have been strange comments from him and his “camp”. Truthfully I like him as a pitcher, but I think he’s a passive-aggressive bully who runs his mouth too much, and if I were Chipper I’d have punched him out

Glad to know I’m not the only one who feels that way about Smoltz. He’s beloved, great, taken hometown discounts, takes the ball even when badly injured, all that jazz.

That’s great and all but that dude does have a bit of that annoying Leo Mazzone like self promotional way about him that grates on my last nerve.

If you’re healthy, you’ll get your contract. If you’re not, they’ll give you a mic. Now just shut your damn mouth for once in your damn life, rehab your arm and we’ll all see how it goes.

And, yes, Chipper should have popped him in the mouth …….

not for the actual comment b/c what he said may have been true and thankfully shamed number 10 onto the field for the rest of that season ……….

but because Smoltz wasn’t man enough to admit that he meant exactly what it sounded like he meant …..

nah, instead, he went on the radio and blamed the so-called “bulldog” reporters just like he is now blaming the “new agent”

you can’t have always have it both ways Johnny ……

eventually a pattern develops that folks start noticing………

By Tomas

October 26, 2008 1:41 PM | Link to this

I hope the San Diego press has no idea what they’re talking about. They’re really saying Jurrjens is a possibility.

By Steve from OH

October 26, 2008 1:53 PM | Link to this

Tomas:

The article I cited didn’t say anything about Jurrjens being a part of a trade, or anyone else for that matter. All it said was that Hanson is off the table (Hooray!).

By Steve from OH

October 26, 2008 2:06 PM | Link to this

Glad to know I’m not the only one who feels that way about Smoltz. He’s beloved, great, taken hometown discounts, takes the ball even when badly injured, all that jazz.

To me, that’s all that matters. For one, we don’t really even know if it is really Smoltz’s fault this time. Maybe the guy that said it is just an idiot.

Of course, I’m not a Gawga boy so I don’t follow the local media (except our boy DOB) very closely so I could be missing some (or a lot of) stuff. But for me, Smoltz has been the co-face of the franchise (along with Chipper and Cox) and my co-favorite Brave (along with Chipper) for the past 15 years. He’s willing to make concessions to play for the team, and that says a lot to me (of course, I’d play for the league min, but you get my drift…). He, like Maddux years before, could simply have taken the biggest offer and bolted ten years ago. But he stayed on. That means a lot to me, a casual fan…like I said, I don’t follow the Georgia media closely, so I’m probably missing some stuff.

And he should have punched Chipper? Come on, man, everyone has disagreements every now and then but that doesn’t mean we should start acting like ingrates and start a fistfight every time someone slights us. This isn’t the Middle Ages, for God’s sake. For the record, I don’t think that that stuff should even come out in the media—it should be handled behind closed doors, so maybe my boy Smoltzie was a bit out of line. But remember, we don’t know even half of the story, so why rush to judgment?

By Lew

October 26, 2008 2:06 PM | Link to this

DOB-I guess I missed what you wrote. Happens upon occasion. I still don’t think much of the guy’s record. Even the year he won his 15 games, his ERA was damn near 5 runs per game.

I can see giving him a shot (particularly the way things were shaking out at the end of 08) to make his buddy Jorge happy, but I really wonder how serious they were in thinking he was going to be much help. Unless the guy has a complete transformation and a phenomenal Spring Training-the Proverbial Lightning In A Bottle- I would not expect him to vie for a spot on the rotation. Do you?

By Shaun

October 26, 2008 2:21 PM | Link to this

Again - you said: No matter the end play that scored the runs, baserunners were obviously necessary.

There is an inherent fallacy in this statement, which I was merely pointing out. The end play DOES matter, because, if unsuccessful, the base runners become moot instead of “obviously necessary”.

Baseball 101, to respond to this from Friday:

Contact outs are better than strikeouts if there is at least one runner on base, there are less than two outs and if the contact out does not result in a double play. In all other situations contact outs are not good. There are plenty of situations where a contact out is not good. Name ANY situation where getting a baserunner is not good.

Baserunners are and always will be essential to a good offense. Baserunners don’t guarantee scoring, but NO baserunners guarantee NO scoring.

By JasonInFL (formerly ME)

October 26, 2008 3:10 PM | Link to this

Lew, what’s up? On the Braves front, I would love to see Peavy here…as I have mentioned. I agree that we shouldn’t trade Hanson, but if the Friars want it to be built around a CF, I wouldn’t be opposed to centering the trade around Gorkys or Jordan. Now, if we can get a deal done without one of them as has been suggested; great…do it. But, if it takes one of them to do it; I think the Braves should pull the trigger. It is easier to find a high ceiling OF prospect than a Jake Peavy.

It will be interesting to see who the Braves target for OF help as well. Any speculation out there as to who that might be?

It appears the Burnetts, Lowes, and Dempters may be pricing out of the Braves range already…wonder who else they are going to target via a trade.

By N Nine

October 26, 2008 3:14 PM | Link to this

Also in the article that Steve from OH brought up: Peavy has made it known to the Padres that he would not accept a trade to the Rangers, who are deep in prospects and twice have made trades with this Padres front office that greatly benefited San Diego

Thank GOD Peavy is helping the situation.

By N Nine

October 26, 2008 3:26 PM | Link to this

The Rays are in serious trouble now. We know the Phillies well and they know how to hit. We couldn’t outslug the Phils..

In the WS The Phillies are hitting .061 With runners in scoring position. No way that continues…

By N Nine

October 26, 2008 3:35 PM | Link to this

It appears the Burnetts, Lowes, and Dempters may be pricing out of the Braves range already JasonInFL

It does feel like ages since Braves played last but World series is not even done yet! No one has filed for FA. No one bidding. Pricing out already? Wren has Millions and is ready to unlease…no need to worry yet. Peavy should still be the goal after WS.

By McFann O –[brr!]

October 26, 2008 3:37 PM | Link to this

N Nine In the WS The Phillies are hitting .061 With runners in scoring position. No way that continues…

A person cann hope…

.061? Dang…That’s lower than Corky hit for the season!

By TommyP

October 26, 2008 3:37 PM | Link to this

Rodrigo Lopez isn’t/wasn’t as bad as y’all made him sound.

The guy’s rookie year was 15-9 with a 3.57 ERA.

He also had a 14-9 year with a 3.59 ERA.

Not saying that he was a good signing or anything like that. But he had a couple of very good seasons.

By David O'Brien

October 26, 2008 3:40 PM | Link to this

NEW BLOG

By Efrim

October 26, 2008 3:43 PM | Link to this

If the Rays win tonight, they still have favorable pitching matchups in 2 of the last 3 games. Tonight’s game is a tossup though. Obviously the Rays need to win tonight, or it might not get back to TB. But again, even if the Rays are own 3-2 going back to Tampa, I’ll take Shields and Garza over Myers and Moyer.

By N Nine

October 26, 2008 3:47 PM | Link to this

Hehe love those Corky jokes, they never get old! Thx McFann

By YunelFan

October 26, 2008 4:26 PM | Link to this

In regards to Lopez, i think we can use all the help we can get in the starting rotation. I don’t know anything about his situation. Is he a free agent or what? Oh yeah, and I laughed when I saw the Padres beat writer suggesting a “Peavy and Greene for Jurrjens, Escobar, and Hanson” deal. How much sense does that make???

By YunelFan

October 26, 2008 4:35 PM | Link to this

I heard a yankee fan say that the yankees could get Peavy for cano and hughes straight up. What? Thats like saying the Braves can get him for KJ and Morton straight up. Yankee fans vastly overrate their prospects. They don’t even have anyone that could be traded for Peavy. This is what i said might get him: KJ, Morton, Schafer, Flowers, and Reyes(thrown in for free lol). A possibility? I would do it….

By YunelFan

October 26, 2008 4:39 PM | Link to this

Ok, I just read what DOB said. Question answered.

By Chad

October 26, 2008 6:56 PM | Link to this

Dan

What outfield options are the Braves looking at this offseason through trades/Free Agency? I believe the farm system is pretty deep in talent of all positions, so obtaining the players to make the Braves contenders shouldn’t be far off. The Braves have always had the foundation established around pitching and above average hitting and defense, we should continue that path. I’ve heard of Adam Dunn’s name pop up from time to time as a possible replacement in left field. While he puts up good power numbers, his average is average to low, strikes out too much and doesn’r have the range he once had. What are their other options in left field??

By Matt

October 27, 2008 11:51 AM | Link to this

Matt Holliday is available! The Braves should beg … borrow … and steal for him. They need a power hitting left fielder more than an ace pitcher. Just think Holliday in left somebody in center and Francouer in right. This is a no-brainer. This must happen!

By Sir Chopalot

October 27, 2008 2:25 PM | Link to this

What about the likelihood of spending half of the available cash on Manny Ramirez and the other half on Ben Sheets. Then trade for a good starter, not necessarily Peavy which would cost too much, but someone like Bronson Arroyo. Frenchie will bounce back, and with Escobar, McCann and Chipper, we’ll have a pretty formidable lineup with Manny batting cleanup.

By GO DAWGS!!!

October 27, 2008 2:42 PM | Link to this

Jason Heyward is a PUNK and I hope Atlanta trades him for a gallon of gas! I help coach a 9 yr old team here in Rome where Heyward played last year. We carried the team to State Mutual Stadium, dressed in their uniforms and they were team of the night. They get to go out on the field during the national anthem. The boys went and stood with the player that played the same position as they played. Heyward wouldn’t even give our boys five or anything.. Just stood there like he was to good to pat a kid on the head or something. He’s a piece of crap, I hope he gets dealt somewhere.

By GO DAWGS!!!

October 27, 2008 2:53 PM | Link to this

Why would we want a player like Manny Ramirez on our team? He is a punk too.

By GO DAWGS!!!

October 27, 2008 2:54 PM | Link to this

Why would we want a player like Manny Ramirez on our team? He is a punk too. We just have gotten rid of Michael Vick….

By JCR0011

October 27, 2008 3:32 PM | Link to this

If the Braves dont aquire Peavy of Matt Holliday this offseason will be a bust. Frank told us that he would require a couple quality starters and an OF by any means necessary but hes hesitant to trade some prospects for a proven vet. This team needs young vets

By STH

October 28, 2008 12:51 PM | Link to this

have any of you noticed where salty was at years end or years middle, in the minors for anopther team, just like most his career here. Yes he can and may be great lets just see what happens we are not far from a playoff berth, we need just what Wren says a couple of proven starters and an outfielder. At this point of uncertainy with Hampton, Glavine, and Smoltz, we need depth and may end up with a top 5 of all of baseball if all end up healthy as planned. I am sick of sinking money in Hampton, but I still believe he is good too, so I am willing to let Wren make some decisions and see where we go. Wren wasnt left with a terrible team, he just has to plug a few holes. Let Bobby coach, but ask him to get back to his aggressive approach. ABC baseball wins 80 or more. Depending on big plays wins 60 or more, but great pitching can win 100 or more.

By STH

October 28, 2008 12:51 PM | Link to this

have any of you noticed where salty was at years end or years middle, in the minors for anopther team, just like most his career here. Yes he can and may be great lets just see what happens we are not far from a playoff berth, we need just what Wren says a couple of proven starters and an outfielder. At this point of uncertainy with Hampton, Glavine, and Smoltz, we need depth and may end up with a top 5 of all of baseball if all end up healthy as planned. I am sick of sinking money in Hampton, but I still believe he is good too, so I am willing to let Wren make some decisions and see where we go. Wren wasnt left with a terrible team, he just has to plug a few holes. Let Bobby coach, but ask him to get back to his aggressive approach. ABC baseball wins 80 or more. Depending on big plays wins 60 or more, but great pitching can win 100 or more.

By STH

October 28, 2008 12:52 PM | Link to this

have any of you noticed where salty was at years end or years middle, in the minors for anopther team, just like most his career here. Yes he can and may be great lets just see what happens we are not far from a playoff berth, we need just what Wren says a couple of proven starters and an outfielder. At this point of uncertainy with Hampton, Glavine, and Smoltz, we need depth and may end up with a top 5 of all of baseball if all end up healthy as planned. I am sick of sinking money in Hampton, but I still believe he is good too, so I am willing to let Wren make some decisions and see where we go. Wren wasnt left with a terrible team, he just has to plug a few holes. Let Bobby coach, but ask him to get back to his aggressive approach. ABC baseball wins 80 or more. Depending on big plays wins 60 or more, but great pitching can win 100 or more.

By Dave O'Brien

October 28, 2008 1:11 PM | Link to this

Frank Wren doesn’t have the guts to trade talent to get Peavy or Burnett. We’ll end up signing Derek Lowe as a free agent and then plug the rest of the rotation with fragile veterans and unproven prospects. Then, when spring training rolls around, he’ll claim we have one of the top pitching staffs in the NL to help cover up the lack of moves he made in the offseason. Gone are the days in which we had the best GM in baseball. I miss John Schuerholz.

By Danny M

October 28, 2008 1:30 PM | Link to this

I, like just about every other Braves fan, am very excited about the possibility of getting Peavy and being right in the sweepstakes, possibly as the torchbearers. I am happy that Wren put my fears to rest though by saying we wouldn’t trade Heyward, Hanson, or Teheran. Everything I’ve heard about them excites me tremendously.

As far as I’m concerned, I think we should keep Gorkys and build a deal around Schafer, Medlen/Morton, and a middle infielder (preferably someone like Prado or Lil, but possibly even a starter…as much as I would hate to see either of them go). They really want a good CF and a pitcher ready to step into their rotation. Charlie can step into their rotation, and I lost all sorts of respect for Schafer when he was found to be taking HGH. I think Gorkys should be our next CF star with Heyward and hopefully a back to normal Francoeur flanking him on either side. That would be killer.

By spotts

October 28, 2008 4:44 PM | Link to this

DOB - what’s so special about Julio Teheran? I don’t mean that in a “I think he sucks” tone, I just don’t know anything about him. All I can see is that he’s 17 and had an ERA over 6 last season. I’m assuming he’s expected to be a phenom?

And I’m digging Hanson in the winter league. I really hope we don’t trade him.

By Bill1956

October 28, 2008 6:51 PM | Link to this

To David O’Brien I am new at this and you seem to have good info. What would it cost the Braves to acquire Willingham and Jacobs from the Marlins? I do not see Freeman being ready for two or three years. They would add about 50 homers to the Brave lineup. Also I understand Seattle is not happy with Beddard. His arm was examined and was not as serious as they suspected. Any thouthts on him??

By scott

November 2, 2008 11:03 AM | Link to this

I just don,t see how you can’t give up quality if you expect to get quality .obviously these top prospects are the ones most teams would be interested in?